# Diesel heating any good?



## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

hello all , ive come back from that NEC show considering the new chausson flash 14 , now i understand the heating and hot water is done from diesel from the main tank.

now the question is is it more efficient than gas/electric?
and how much does it use for the heating being left on on a winters night?
can anyone with such a system please give me their thoughts on pros and cons .

many thanks in advance

steve


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Great system and quite economical. I would not want to go back to any other system. Only one con, it can take a while to warm the van up when it's cold, but I get round that by leaving it ticking over when we go out, Alan.


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## b2tus (Sep 7, 2009)

We have an Eberspacher warm air heating system fired from the diesel tank and find it very efficient and relatively cheap to run. Only down side (for others parked very close by) is the noise of the fan motor for the first few minutes of running whilst it gets up to speed...it then settles down and is not obtrusive. Still a hell of a lot quieter than a generator!!

Not sure what make is on the Chausson so may not be an issue.


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

you can double its economy by using red for heating :lol:


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

We changed our Gas only Truma for the Webasto Dualtop and think it's fantastic. 

It's difficult to tell how much fuel but we used it this last weekend both for water and heating and didn't notice any drop on the fuel gauge.

No noise outside just a whiff of diesel at start up. Slight noise inside from the fuel pump.

Jan


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

You may be able to if you fit a hidden second diesel tank with the filler inside the van somewhere connected just to the heater.

steve & ann. --------- teensvan


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

teensvan said:


> You may be able to if you fit a hidden second diesel tank with the filler inside the van somewhere connected just to the heater.
> 
> steve & ann. --------- teensvan


Then you can run it on red diesel and save money


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I had that in my last van and considered it for this one. I was advised that running it on red would make it smokey, which to be honest I doubt. Given though that this van is double floored any tank would be more or less inside I didn't want to risk smells and anyway it's turned out that it quite economical so not really worth it in my opinion, Alan.


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## Davethepenguin (Oct 21, 2010)

I run a Flash 28 with a Webasto heater. I find diesel usage minimal, in fact the van averages 30 mpg including the fuel used for heating. It is very efficient but seems to have one drawback. It likes just too much electricity to fire it up in a morning. If you've been watching the TV the previous night whilst the van is powered by the leisure battery & your available power is a tad on the low side, you might find it impossible to fire up next morning. A bit of help from the cab battery might be needed in the form of turning the ignition on whilst firing the heater up, or even an engine start up.

I've just fitted an additional 92 ah battery to see if that will sort out the problem. If you're on EHU there's absolutely no problem.

Regards Andy


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

We have a Webasto Dualtop system and it does not seem to change the MPG measurably when used for a two night winter weekend keeping our (relatively poorly insulated) panel van warm in sub-zero tempuratures, plus hot water.

Being a dual electric/diesel system you can of course use it on hookup when you have it.

The big advantage is not using gas for heating & hot water is that our underfloor tank would last several years of our current (holidays and weekends) usage just running the cooking and fridge.

We could have specified our Murvi with the no-gas option with a diesel cooker and a compressor fridge. With hindsight I might have gone for that - but with a slightly bigger solar panel than the one we've got to keep the batteries topped up for the fridge. With that set up you could tour anywhere in the world 'off grid' for months - you can always get diesel, but LPG is sometimes not readily available


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

So what are the pros and cons between Eberspacher and Webasto systems. and does one or both systems use mains electric as well, similar to the Truma gas/electric.
which is the most reliable and have service centres.

cabby


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

A liter of LPG will give 7KWhr
A liter of diesel 10KWhr

It all depends on what fuel you use, bulk LPG cheaper than diesel.

Diesel heaters need more maintenance and are generally less reliable than gas.

Having experienced Truma hot air system and Alde hot water system, we would not go back to hot air. In cold weather we can use the engine cooling system to heat the motorhome when on the move.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

We have an Eberspacher D5WS, which is a hydronic or water boiler model, 5KW max output. The hot water can be diverted to preheat the engine on a cold morning, but for us that shunts air round everywhere which is a pain. If you do do that, the reverse can also be true so the excess engine heat can be fed into your camper hot water tank for free. Many do do that and I have no idea where all the air we immediately get comes from! Plumbing into the engine seems sensible as then both will use the same header tank.

We then have one heat exchanger, air blown across that comes out of 4 floor level outlets and its a good system.

A good addition for us would be a small radiator or two, then the heat can be used without blowing air and the additional electricity that uses.

It won't fire up without a reasonable level in the batteries, but we have a big-ish system and its only been a problem once in the winter with no sun and parked up for a while.

The main problem has been altitude. Its OK up to 1000m so it says, but 3 weeks at 920m clogged it up. Its easy to take apart, but it was annoying that it did it within its specified range, although the inlet pipe had dropped a little and was possibly a little obstructed. It will burn OK at much higher altitude for a day or two. The add on for altitude would be a next step, then it will have a 4000m limit, although losing some output with more height gained;

http://www.pfjones.co.uk/images/High_Altitude.pdf

It uses 0.62 litres per hour on its high (and noisy) setting, and 0.27l on low, it switches back and forth maintaining a constant circuit temperature. So if you have the air blowers on and a cold water tank to heat it will be on high maybe half to three quarters of the time for the first hour.

I don't know if its cheaper than gas in the UK, possibly quite similar in fact, but for a trip away from a Calor dealer for a month or three means I don't have to dump my bottle on the continent and fork out for another. We did have it serviced, but in the process of that learnt a lot and with the error codes it produces I could probably do a fair job of fixing it myself having taken some spares.

A no brainer in my opinion, assuming you can maintain more than maybe 12.4V and the external noise isn't a problem. No-ones ever complained to us anyway!

Cheers

Jason


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

WOW 8O 
Thankyou very much for all that info , well it looks like i will be going for something new with the diesel heating on then

steve


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## ElectricBikeExpert (Oct 18, 2011)

We also have an Eberspacher warm air heating system which runs from the diesel tank; it uses hardly any diesel at all (nothing registers on the fuel guage even after using it day and night for 3-4 days) I consider therefore it's cheap to run and as important - it doesn't take up the space of a cooker in the van! I've had all types and would have anything else that the Eberspacher!!


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

erneboy said:


> I had that in my last van and considered it for this one. I was advised that running it on red would make it smokey, which to be honest I doubt. Given though that this van is double floored any tank would be more or less inside I didn't want to risk smells and anyway it's turned out that it quite economical so not really worth it in my opinion, Alan.


Red diesel will not make it smoky, the only difference between red and normal diesel is 3 parts per million of a red dye, apart from that it's exactly the same formulation.
My only gripe with running 'road' diesel for a heating system would be the amount of tax I was paying per litre, red is around half the price - the rest is tax.
I would think you would have to use a large quantity of diesel to warrant the expense of a separate tank.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I wonder why the service man would have told that it would? I did say in my post that I doubted it and also that I used red in previous vans, Alan.


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

erneboy, I didn't word my reply very well, was just trying to agree with your post, and confirm what you thought, to help others who may wonder what the differences were.
Bill

People !
What ever you do, Don't put red diesel in your road vehicle's tank, Customs and Excise may confiscate your vehicle if they dip the tank and find any trace of red in there.


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## WiltonShagpile (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi,

We had an Eberspacher on a AutoCruise Starfire. We had no end of problems with it. it wouldn't fire up if the batteries were below 12.4 volts. admitted the Starfire was 8 years old when we bought it so not a new system.

We couldn't leave it on through the night as it would totally flatten the batteries. Even on hookup!!

We have a friend that has an AutoCruise and he seems happy with it but I notice when I leave the heating (LPG from a Gaslow system) on through the night him nt wife have got these big romper suits and woolly hats. Guess its not so warm in the van as I would like it.

As for economy diesel gives out less heat and costs more than LPG per Ltr. These figures are not from me but a test in an MMM Magazine last year.

Then there's the noise, my other half wouldn't have it on before 8.00 or after 23.00, sounds like an aircraft turbine winding up. You can hear it 6 meters away in your MH if someone is firing it up. Not as noisy as a Genny, but not as silent as Gas. 

I would not have Eberspacher diesel heating again. Get a Gaslow system fitted and you have the best of both worlds. Cheap LPG from the petrol stations (fill it for about £9.00 a go) and save the batteries for your electrics in the van.

I know of no way if the batteries drop below the stated charge to get the heating going, we tried running the van engine to up the volts but nothing worked.

Beware !!! 
once you have this system it looks as though its almost impossible to convert to Gas. We sold the Starfire for this reason to get away from diesel. We had an engineer check it over and replace some parts in the hope it would improve but to no a vale, before he took the job on he said it would cost from £100 to possibly hundreds of pounds as they are aluminum and corrode under the vehicle.

Ask yourself........... Why do I need diesel heating???? if you can't come up with a really good reason just stick to GAS. Why do you think there's so few motor homes sold with diesel heating. 

All the best Wilt


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

WiltonShagpile said:


> Hi,
> 
> We had an Eberspacher on a AutoCruise Starfire. We had no end of problems with it. it wouldn't fire up if the batteries were below 12.4 volts. admitted the Starfire was 8 years old when we bought it so not a new system.
> 
> ...


i've seen quite a few new motorhomes with the diesel heating fitted now over this past year , so i can only hope that there was something wrong with your system / they are now more up to date and more efficient, i can't think of any reason why the diesel heating should use more electric than the gas equivalent?

many thanks

steve


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## WiltonShagpile (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi,

Gas has in most cases a spark ignition off a pen-lite battery so no power out of your leisure battery.

Unless things have changed diesel is constantly switching off when its up to temperature then heating a coil plug to re-ignite. the coil needs a whopping amount of amps to fire up the diesel.

Things could be different in the new generation diesel heaters but I read in MMM only a year ago of someone with the same problem (couldn't leave the heating on all night, drained the leisure battery)

All the best Wilt.

Are the new diesel heaters not wired into the leisure battery?


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Seems to me that there must have been an earlier generation of diesel heaters that have characteristics that are not present in the latest webasto ones.

1. You can confortably sleep with a webasto dual-top running all night. We have regularly done so in our Murvi, where the dual top is in a cupboard at the foot of the bed, and previously in our tiny Bongo, where it was even closer. It is not very noisy at all - I guess that might depend on the positioning of the pipe runs and air vents. You certainly can't hear the exhaust noise outside the van.

2. It doesn't use much electricity (rated 15 -65w).

3. It doesn't use much diesel - Webasto suggest 100ml diesel per hour per kW as a guide.

4. They work at altitude - Webasto say 2000m and can be adjusted for higher. I can't vouch for any higher than about 1000m - I can't recall anywhere we have camped higher than that.

Check out the specs, see diagrams of operation and installations and look at the FAQs here:

http://www.webasto-outdoors.com/heating/dual-top/dual-top-rha-101.html


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