# Too Many Cooks?



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

There was a serious RTA near us last night. Road Chaos. Two Vehicles involved and three injured in the two.

But Does it really take over 70+ Emergency Service Personnel to attend?.

None of which I might could do anything to alleviate the Traffic situation. 

I am al for the preservation of life, but come on, too many chiefs.

TM


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

Maybe it was quiet elsewhere and everyone was bored. Your local RTA relieved the boredom?

Colin


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Always a pet gripe with me.

Accident on a motorway.............close both sides for a day whilst dozens of plods get on their knees examing miles of road before and after.

Talk about OTT, we've got to be world champions.

On a Frech motorway at least a lane is kept open, whilst shovelling the remains into a body bag. :wink: 8O 

tony


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Well if it takes 15 firemen and 5 engines to get a teenager from a childrens swing in a playground, what does anyone expect :wink: 

tony


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

It soon adds up if the collision is fatal or there are potentially life changing injuries. A couple of firebrigade crews, ambulance each for the injured, road collision investigation team and the list goes on dependent upon the damage to roadside property or waterways etc.

The government of the day decreed that all fatal/life changing injury collisions would be investigated to the same level as a serious crime would be. The Road Death Investigation Manual was brought into being as a country wide standard. An RTC falling into this category generates paperwork the likes would scare the pants off of any sane person. The upside of this type of collision is that I could go back to scene of any RTC I have dealt with and pretty much reconstruct it inch (millimeter?) perfect. I could also, with the help of my investigation logs answer any questions put to me as to why something was either done or not done in the collision. 
It made prosecutions easier, assisted the coroner to come to a verdict and assist insurance companies with claims for serious injury compensation claims.

A real pain in the butt for the public wanting to use the road but not a lot of fun for those involved in the collision either.

With the photograph depicting a breach of a bridge over what looks like a main road you have all sorts of issues to take into consideration regarding health and safety of the public and the responders.

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Better than not enough TM.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Seems a bit Ott but maybe its something we shouldn't complain about.

We were in a serious rta quite a few years ago in the middle of nowhere. I was gobsmacked how many emergency service vehicles turned up including two fire engines, police cars and three ambulances for a two car collision. 

They were all needed though and worked very quickly to get us out.

Roof and doors all cut off in minutes.

When your trapped in the wreckage, you think your other half is about to expire and you can't get out. It's rather encouraging to have a dozen fireman working like stink to get you out quickly.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The first emergency services on the scene raises the standard (as do the number of 999 calls received) the ambulance and fire are common for rtc and the police of course, the fire are I/c the scene until the casualties are extracted. The police are there to ensure site safety fro other road users. 2 fire vehicles is common as they do not all have the same equipment and specialised buts may be needed off more than one vehicle.

In that picture the vehicle is at risk of falling over - so the fire service responsibility is to stabilise that and prevent it happening - the risks of it falling over are obvious.......

The emergency services cars are often senior officers to take control - although if ambulance it can be a paramedic single response unit for speed of emergency access - cars are faster than vans even vans with blues and twos.......

Dave


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. Recent reports suggest as many as 100 crew!

But what about last weeks M42 fiasco!

Closed for 27 hours Taking it from Saturday afternoon to Sunday Morning!

All for one selfish 8astard. Again, I am all for preservation of life. Would like my family or friends to be looked after, should they wish to carry out such an act. A Relatives Sister-In-Law jumped off our local motorway. So we know the pain it can be bring. She landed on some poor young Womans Screen.

But I there MUST have been a better way to deal with This< Click?

Preservation of life?

What if the Emergency services could not have reached people in need due to the SIX Hours plus delays on motorways and the knock on effect brought the entire area to a standstill. Heads should roll and the handbook ripped up. One woman on Local Radio told how she was taking her Elderly Mum Home and was stuck for six hours. No Toilet facilities and her Mum and to urinate sat in the seat.

TM


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Bags n Buckets


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I have the attitude that if I have to sit in a jam because of an RTA so be it.
If it takes 5 minutes or 5 hours so what?!
Somebody has a real life problem....and thank God it's not me....I can wait and then get home safe and well :wink: 

I also have a little thing about traffic reporters who along with the shows presenter seem to think that a few jovial comments at the same time as reporting serious accidents is OK 8O.....Perhaps it's just me :roll:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

EJB said:


> I have the attitude that if I have to sit in a jam because of an RTA so be it.
> If it takes 5 minutes or 5 hours so what?!
> Somebody has a real life problem....and thank God it's not me....I can wait and then get home safe and well :wink:
> 
> I also have a little thing about traffic reporters who along with the shows presenter seem to think that a few jovial comments at the same time as reporting serious accidents is OK 8O.....Perhaps it's just me :roll:


Totally agree with you.

If the accident (I prefer Crash, crashes are usually no accident) is serious. I would want to know who might of attempted to or killed anyone.

My Point was that I think we go way over the top with Emergency Crews and closing roads. What if suddenly these crews who some suggest were bored were needed elsewhere?.

As for the road closures.

A few years ago I was heading south along a dual carriageway that Teed to another via a roundabout. I sat in miles of traffic for over an hour. Only find we were filtering into one lane. Because at the and was an unattended Police traffic car with blues flashing was blocking the other free lane.

The accident was on the other carriageway!


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I can explain that, it is because all you miserable lot slow down and start goggling at the accident from the opposite side, this causes more of a backlog and has caused a second accident at times.
One of the things you tend to forget is that emergency response teams have only a small amount of info about the incident they are going to.It is easier to return unwanted crews than wait for them to be sent. If all local units are called then backup from another area is sent to cover the area. 
Just be grateful we have them and you do not need them this time.

cabby


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

cabby said:


> I can explain that, it is because all you miserable lot slow down and start goggling at the accident from the opposite side, this causes more of a backlog and has caused a second accident at times.
> One of the things you tend to forget is that emergency response teams have only a small amount of info about the incident they are going to.It is easier to return unwanted crews than wait for them to be sent. If all local units are called then backup from another area is sent to cover the area.
> Just be grateful we have them and you do not need them this time.
> 
> cabby


Don't include me in the "You" . I have Seen enough badly injured and dead bodies.

Fair point about the return.

TM


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Afternoon folks,

most are cleared up by 5 pm.



norm


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

goldi said:


> Afternoon folks,
> 
> most are cleared up by 5 pm.
> 
> norm


Most What?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If a helicopter is needed, both lanes of a motorway HAVE to be closed to stop collisions (note not accidents) happening due to rubber neckers..... 

Stopping traffic on a motorway for each minute roughly gives a mile tailback so if it is stopped for 20 minutes....... the jam lasts one heck of a long time.....  

Dave


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

teemyob said:


> goldi said:
> 
> 
> > Afternoon folks,
> ...


 hello again,

Accidents .

norm


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

Having a potential jumper is a nightmare as you are damned if you shut the road and damned if you don't. Once you've shut it then that's it for the duration of the negotiation, be it two minutes or two days. Do anything to provoke the person to jump (setting up airbags etc) and risk the family taking you to court, trial by media and castigation or an unlawful death verdict from the coroner.

With regards to long delays due to the scene investigation I can assure you that nobody wants the road closed for any longer than is necessary. The real work begins once they get back to the station/hospital/mortuary. The family of the injured or deceased deserve to know that everything that can be done to understand what happened has been done. 

A few years ago (before the RDI model was instigated) the best way to get away with killing someone was with a vehicle. Now, having access to forensic and collision reconstruction teams gives a much clearer picture of what has happened. Unfortunately this comes at a cost in both time and resources. 

Terry


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

teemyob said:


> Thanks for the replies. Recent reports suggest as many as 100 crew!
> 
> But what about last weeks M42 fiasco!
> But I there MUST have been a better way to deal with This< Click?
> ...


Links not working TM.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

emmbeedee said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the replies. Recent reports suggest as many as 100 crew!
> ...


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/m42-closed-second-day-police-2801281


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