# fuel choice.



## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

On a RV would petrol with LPG conversion, or Deisel be the more economical option for UK use? Or would there be no difference in costs?

Cheers M&D :wink:


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Dave .. can of worms time :lol: :lol: 

LPG works out cheaper per mile but if you pay for the conversion, say £2.5k that would need to be taken into account and would obviously depend on annual millage as to how long the pay back time would be.. that said, 

George does about 14mpg on diesel, a similar sized RV on petrol would do less than 10 mpg and on LPG taking into account the lower cost and calorific value of the LPG that works out at equivalent of ~ 17 mpg petrol..


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## 96475 (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi Jim,

Your diesel engine probably cost at least £4k+ more initially, which offsets the petrol/LPG conversion price. The LPG engine is very clean with very little pollution and taking price of fuel etc. into account equates to 18mpg. I know yours is a pusher so no cab noise, but a lot of RV's have front engine diesels which are noisy up front. The worms are wriggling!!

Regards Chris


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

what about the reliability of engines, are diesel egines still more robust than petrol ones?

stew


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm not sure they are necessarily more robust nowadays, but they certainly win on longevity, IF you can afford to do the necessary mileage, of course!

M&D, I have pondered this, too, and flipping between the two made me realise that, such is the US RV market, that in practice it may come down to what (chassis, length, layout, quality) is available with what engine type.

Dave


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Diesel v Petrol*

Hi

I know nothing about RVs but for this discussion will compare them to a coach - based on size and aerodynamics being similar etc

I do not know of a coach manufacturer that supplies with a petrol engine.

Engines can be front, rear or mid mounted and I have know a Volvo diesel B10M at least 1/2 million miles. That is where the comparison ends though as an RV is not likely to do that kind of mileage ...... or is it Jim?

If I was buying an RV tomorrow - and I expect to get one in the coming years - I will be opting for a rear engined diesel - assuming they are still available.

Incidentally a rear engined machine tests the driver's skill a bit more - for example you cannot hear the engine revving and so you use the tacho to see the revs and help with the decision making about a gear change. You can of course tell by how the coach is pulling.

Rapide561


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Condor said:


> Hi Jim, The worms are wriggling!! Regards Chris


Yes indeed... :lol: :lol:

what you say is perfectly true, there are a lot of variables and other points to consider in the choice of power plant..

Hands Up ! I'm a dyed in the wool diesel head, so anything I say will be biased .. I'll try to be objective.. promise .. :wink:

I would say under 30ft go for a petrol/lpg puller .. above 30ft go for a diesel pusher.. as you say, puller diesels can be noisy.. economy is academic, LPG prices may well rise and erode the cost benefits..

Pushers aren't simply RVs with diesel engines in the rear, they have commercial coach chassis, air ride suspension, air brakes, heavier payload, bigger lockers, all important if fulltiming but not so much if used for vacationing ..

Last word advice .... If economy is a huge concern.... don't buy an RV.

Worms now scampering ... :lol: :lol:


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## 96475 (Oct 9, 2005)

ScotJimland said:


> Last word advice .... If economy is a huge concern.... don't buy an RV.
> 
> Hi Jim,
> I agree 100%. I also agree a 30ft+ Diesel pusher on a coach type chassis is a great vehicle but you are then into HGV territory which can have its own problems.
> ...


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Economy*

Hi Jim

If economy is a key word - don't buy a motorhome full stop!

Since delivery I have spent at least £500.00 notes on little extras - then there is the satellite thing and air con on top!

Yesterday I saw a Monaco - forget the exact model - but it was flying like a rocket. Rear diesel engine - must be about 350 bhp at a guess - again like a coach!

Rapide561


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Economy*



Rapide561 said:


> Yesterday I saw a Monaco - forget the exact model - but it was flying like a rocket. Rear diesel engine - must be about 350 bhp at a guess - again like a coach!


Hi Russell..

you are on the slippery slope to financial ruin mate .. :lol: :lol: :lol: join the club ..

Next year you will be in the RV showroom shelling out pounds like peas from a pod.. :wink:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*RV*

Hi Jim

I don't think I would buy a Monaco - but I do think that we will re RVing in a couple of years.

We are potentially ruined now so what the hell....... LOL LOL

I can't even sell Oscar's body - he has had the snip!

Rapide561


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

*Re: RV*



Rapide561 said:


> I can't even sell Oscar's body - he has had the snip!
> 
> Rapide561


but you haven't ... have you 8O 8O ... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Snip*

Hi Jim

Totally off the original topic now - but no not yet! LOL

Rapide561


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## Malc (May 9, 2005)

...and of course, given the choice of a self lubricating engine ....

We had a Gardener engine once (6HLX) that had done 1.25 million miles and had never had the head off...


:lol: :lol: 
Malc


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

> Pushers aren't simply RVs with diesel engines in the rear, they have commercial coach chassis, air ride suspension, air brakes, heavier payload, bigger lockers, all important if fulltiming but not so much if used for vacationing ..


 Jim are these models you mention the ones that req a HGV drivers license?

Dave


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

MandyandDave said:


> Jim are these models you mention the ones that req a HGV drivers license?
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave..

This has been debated on here a few times .. GT was one of the main debaters who contended that RVs were not HGV vehicles and did not require an HGV license to drive, you have to decide for yourself.

.. you may recall this post..

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-3432.html

Quote 
End result ? they still have not quoted a law that covers motorhomes, campervans etc, all the other goverment depts agree that a motorhome is not a goods vehicle and therefore not restricted in weight/licencing. 
George

Un Quote

Pushers are generally over 7.5ton GVW .. George is 8.5ton GVW


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

Out of interest do you think LPG will only rise at the same rate as other fuel or do you think future government will tax it at a higher rate to other fuels?

I ask this as will be spending most of my purchase budget on getting a slide out at the expense of type of engine.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Jim just re read it all thanks for the pointer


ps you have a PM


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*LPG*



RR said:


> Out of interest do you think LPG will only rise at the same rate as other fuel or do you think future government will tax it at a higher rate to other fuels?
> 
> I ask this as will be spending most of my purchase budget on getting a slide out at the expense of type of engine.


Hi

Personally speaking, I think LPG will increase. A colleague whom I have mentioned previously on the forum runs his van on chip fat as he is of the opinion that LPG prices can only go one way.

Rapide561


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Interesting topic M&D...
Nice info Jim, although I was to frightened to read your link to a previous thread, just in case......................
My personal thoughts regarding licensing is that mine clearly states somewhere on it that I am licensed to drive a vehicle up to 7500 Kgs, therefore I assume technically that if I were to drive any vehicle above that plated weight I would be driving it without the correct license and that for the purposes of the debate I would consider to be illegal....
I hope that my understanding is correct and that this waffle has been useful to someone :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Regarding the cost per mile comparison, LPG is certainly cheaper now but do you all remember a few years ago when the government pushed us all towards diesels??? They even gave large tax breaks to company car drivers to go for a diesel, now diesel costs more and company car benefit tax is surcharged extra for a diesel model..... What is to stop them doing the same for LPG????
Food for thought I would say

Keith


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## kijana (May 1, 2005)

Come on, chaps, most of us are British.

This means we drive on a licence, NOT a license.

Sorry, just had to get that off me chest. . .


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## 99702 (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi M&D
We purchased our RV in April 06 and we have a LPG conversion 200l usable fuel, the worst we have got is 300miles, but on a run 400 miles.
Morrisons 40p.
Cost of the fuel is small change compared with the equipment (and Beer) puchased, we load bus right up as 2 familys use it loads of kids a tent great fun just need more time to use, 
those with deep pockets and short arms should not even contemplate.
christine


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Christine .. good advice , you do need deep pockets and long arms .. 

your consumption works out to approx 1.5 - 2mls/ lt of LPG or 6.75-9mpg 

but LPG at less than half the cost of petrol, equivalent 14-18 mpg petrol ? .. which is pretty good .. i get about 14mpg diesel 
ohh my poor head... 

glad you are enjoying it whatever the cost :lol: happy travels


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

kijana said:


> Come on, chaps, most of us are British.
> 
> This means we drive on a licence, NOT a license.
> 
> Sorry, just had to get that off me chest. . .


 Hi Kijana, guilty as charged,  my excuse is that the topic is RV related therefore I'm forgiving the US Spellchecker :lol: :lol:


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

If I were to drive the motorhome shall we say ...more conservatively :roll: then my fuel returns would probably average 24mpg. And not the 17-18 mpg showing on current spreadsheets  

Dave :wink:


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## 97770 (Feb 19, 2006)

I just wished that the petrol and lpg pumps were on with the HGV diesel pumps, it can be a pain to get on a std pump. i think that is the biggest plus with a diesel :lol: 

FORDY


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

i have monitored my gas consumption since new, and currently averaging 7.5mpg on propane, just over 3,000 miles. currently paying 36p (countrywide contract price). would not like to have a diesel puller, because of noise. but the big pushers are definitely "it" if your budget (and licence) stretch to it.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Des, are there any pushers on the market that can be driven on a car licence?


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## MicknPat (Jul 18, 2005)

Jim,(ScotJimland )

In your posting a few back in this thread you say,



> End result ? they still have not quoted a law that covers motorhomes, campervans etc, all the other goverment depts agree that a motorhome is not a goods vehicle and therefore not restricted in weight/licencing.


If you visit the Direct Gov site << See Here >>

You will see that to drive a LARGE vehicle over 3500kg and trailer up to 750kg you need a C licence and be over 21.

To drive a LARGE veicle over 3500kg with a trailer over 750kg you need a C+E licence and be over 21.

So the 'authorities' appear to have got around that problem by dropping the word GOODS.


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

Hi MandyandDave

If you follow my interpretation of the law, NO. However, many will say you can. Pushers are usually well over 10 tons, with commercial chassis, frequently full air brakes, higher chassis rails than pullers, hence huge basement lockers etc. etc. Personal view - madness to drive anything this size (including 6 to 7 ton pullers) without some professional training. With a width of 8'6", you are at risk of collision with every hgv coming your way on a single carriageway. no doubt many will disagree with me. approx cost of class 1 (now called C+E) £2 - 2.5k. cost of collision, reckoning on loss of no claims bonus over the years, well in excess of this.
whatever you do, best of luck. des.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Mick_P said:


> Jim,(ScotJimland )
> 
> In your posting a few back in this thread you say,
> 
> ...


Hi Mick .. what I said was ..



> This has been debated on here a few times .. GT was one of the main debaters who contended that RVs were not HGV vehicles and did not require an HGV license to drive,* you have to decide for yourself. *


I then included a link to a MHFs post , I did not give an opinion on the law..

Edit 
Footnote: 
The DVLA interpret the law, they do not make acts of parliament, dropping or changing the wording doesn't change the law, to my knowledge no new acts have been made regarding motorcaravan licences.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

> If I were to drive the motorhome shall we say ...more conservatively then my fuel returns would probably average 24mpg


I belive you Dave, all you have to do now is convince yourself :lol: :lol: 
and Mandy!!
Geo


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