# Dilemma



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We are building our bungalow by cutting the garden of our old house in half and using the back half as a building plot. The house has a pond and we decided to take the pond with us when we divided up the plot because a) it is a possibility that someone could build over it if it is left with the old house. b) there were concerns that prospective buyers would be put off by the stream that runs through it (soon to be resolved but that's another story). 

We accepted an offer from a couple who, to be fair had already said that they hadn't viewed before because they didn't like the bungalow blocking their countryside views. They have now asked if we would consider selling them more land to include the pond area in order to increase the size of their plot.

Over the course of the build I have come to like the idea of having the large, natural, pond and all the wildlife it brings. The down side is that it does take a fair amount of maintenance. A landscape designer has surveyed it and thinks that the pond and an adjacent bog garden should be fairly low maintenance and the rest of the garden could be made so too. Chris is a slash and burn kind of gardener who cannot bear anything that climbs or creeps or self seeds. I, on the other hand, love to see nature do its own thing. A pond and wildlife area could be a source of conflict. It certainly has in the past 

What to do???

Oh - our buyers have sold a house, a nearby town, for £300K more than they are paying for ours (large detached, central position with wrap around large garden backing onto church). He was a builder and now a screed layer.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Divorce.

Ray.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

It is OK to ask for advice Pat, but in the end the decision must be yours. Only you and Chris must make the decision.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Just hoped I might have missed something. Apart for Ray's solution which, I must admit, does cross my mind occasionally so I had not missed that


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

There or several points you have to consider how much the loss of land will impact on the value of your new bungalow will you have the garden you want and if its drained modified or built on by the new owner what affect would this have on your plot


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

bilbaoman said:


> There or several points you have to consider how much the loss of land will impact on the value of your new bungalow will you have the garden you want and if its drained modified or built on by the new owner what affect would this have on your plot


We were thinking of getting it valued with and without the extra land. The trouble is that most estate agents are about fifteen and seem to value houses by looking at sold prices of similar ones.

I suppose we could put a clause in to say it is not to be drained or built on in our lifetime?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

patp said:


> We were thinking of getting it valued with and without the extra land. The trouble is that most estate agents are about fifteen and seem to value houses by looking at sold prices of similar ones.
> 
> *I suppose we could put a clause in to say it is not to be drained or built on in our lifetime*?


Even before I read that sentence I was going to suggest putting a covenant on the area including the pond. It might have to be carefully worded and It may reduce the price you can ask for the sale.

If you go that route I suggest you are open with the buyers and do not spring the covenant on them at the last minute.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Pat, would you still have enjoyment of the land and pond? I only ask because the daughter of the lady who had this house built her house in the garden of this house and strategically placed a minimal wire fence to mark the boundary so we have full viewing enjoyment of her garden, trees and lawn but no maintenance.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

One other thing to consider would be a what if ?

What if, after buying the land etc from you they later decided to sell part of it for further development ?

That may well mar your enjoyment of the land and also mean potentially the buyers could make a considerable profit from their acquisition and sale.

You can add a clause that if there is such a redevelopment, 50% of the increased value must be handed over before development starts for a period of 10 years (or any such time that you decide). This was the situation with one of my daughters who bought a nigh on derelict bungalow on several acres with such a clause and a 95% penalty clause for five years. This was from the estate of the former owner……. greedy children may be one thought ?

Worth considering and discussing with a solicitor to ensure legally safely phrased.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Pat, would you still have enjoyment of the land and pond? I only ask because the daughter of the lady who had this house built her house in the garden of this house and strategically placed a minimal wire fence to mark the boundary so we have full viewing enjoyment of her garden, trees and lawn but no maintenance.


Good point, Kev. It is the main thing that is bothering me. If we have the normal six foot panel fencing to divide us it would seriously impact on the value of the bungalow both monetarily and aesthetically. I was looking forward to living in the bungalow with a 360 deg view of greenery. By moving the fence to give them the pond it would mean the front of the bungalow had a driveway and a small border in front of the fence rather than views over the pond and wildlife meadow. Our main view from all the living rooms and bedrooms is of farmland to the rear and side but it is as you drive in and the view from the front garden and hallway of the bungalow that will be impacted. Almost a "wow!" factor that is being taken away.

My only problem with putting a wire fence is one of privacy to and from their back and our front garden. If we are in our front garden we will be able to see into their back garden and they will see our front from their back. They are of working age so not home all the time. We would mostly be in our rear or side gardens I would expect. A landscaper could mitigate that factor with clever planting to blur the view.

This has helped enormously to clarify things.

We had already thought about the covenant. When we were speaking to a solicitor a while ago, about the leaking bore hole issue, she had suggested that we hold on to that land as it is big enough to build on. A covenant would protect it in our lifetime or at least until we were too old to care  Before that, I have to admit, we were going to sell the pond with the house.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sorry to say Pat but you don't think you want your cake and to eat it?
i.e. your selling off the house and land but still want to 'enjoy' the view and aspect?

I realise none of us want a horrible construction beside us but in todays world sometimes it's difficult to control or stop what might be considered 'normal' or 'permitted' enjoyment or development of a property you no longer own.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You are quite right Ray. They do not, however, have to accept the deal. They have offered on the house as it is and we could just say no to their request to buy more land. Trying to find a way where both parties are happy


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Do you need/want the money?

If not I'd keep it.

You can always sell it if/when you get too old to maintain it but until then you have unfettered enjoyment of it.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not an easy one Pat, and more difficult one as we are not able to stand on the land and see all the issues and positives.

When we bought this bungalow, we were told we had access to a garage and could park in front of it, this was not the case as we did not have parking in front of our own garage, we do own the land which is 12 feet wide in front of the garage but narrows to zero where it meets the road about 150 feet away, however, the neighbour who does have access said he was okay with us parking there but he would like to buy the garage and access to it, no amount was reached instead we said we would need a garage and parking for the van and a car, which he has almost completed, but has been further complicated by him wanting to buy a house in Wales he's due to exchange this month but essentially he has not finished the garage, and Liz isn't going to sign it over until she's happy it is all sorted, but the new owner wants the garage and access included in the sale, it all seems to be going ahead but the next couple of weeks should be interesting as he has lost interest in finishing it off, I'm sure he will do it, but he's dragging his feet.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

People get very exercised about land don't they?

We don't want or need the money. What we do want is a relaxing life. I would find it relaxing to drive in and see a lovely pond and wildlife meadow but Chris would just see "work". I think the wire fence might be the best compromise. If I do feel over looked then we could put a fence up later.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Wet drizzly day after heavy showers all night. After setting up a camera to catch dog and owner defecating on my land/garden and seeing nothing but pigeons and maybe a rabbit. I then walk the plot only to find a pile of what looks like fox poop on our front gravel. Seems we are the favourite crapping spot for all and sundry despite the notices.

We were to entertain our vegie friend and sadly not very well hubby today but as he is not feeling well they have cancelled. So now we have to invite one of the widows and hope she like vegie faire. Always something.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

If we sell it after we sell the house, Graham, we would have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the proceeds. I think they really want to know they can have it too. I certainly would if it were me buying a house. Who knows we may even lose the sale if the make up their minds that the garden is too small for them after all without the pond area. We have "enjoyed" it for some time now and need to remember that we had plans, before all this building lark cropped up, to move to a bungalow with a more manageable garden.

Well, the buyers have agreed to a "no building on it" legal clause. This makes me feel a little better. If we can persuade them to put a soft boundary up which gives everyone privacy but allows us a softer view than a six foot fence would.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sounds like a reasonable plan unless they are seriously private people.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

patp said:


> If we sell it after we sell the house, Graham, we would have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the proceeds. I think they really want to know they can have it too. I certainly would if it were me buying a house. Who knows we may even lose the sale if the make up their minds that the garden is too small for them after all without the pond area. We have "enjoyed" it for some time now and need to remember that we had plans, before all this building lark cropped up, to move to a bungalow with a more manageable garden.
> 
> Well, the buyers have agreed to a "no building on it" legal clause. This makes me feel a little better. If we can persuade them to put a soft boundary up which gives everyone privacy but allows us a softer view than a six foot fence would.


Yes it sounds as though you are reaching a good compromise.

If there is a problem agreeing about the fence/view maybe a deal-breaker would be to offer some nominal annual payment as a contribution to maintenance of the pond, or a 'right to view'.

I am sure a clever solicitor could produce a wording. Mine could. I have just been in touch with her about a small completion.

Geoff


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