# Vehicle battery flat....again!



## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Any thoughts would be apppreciated.

My MH is permanently on hookup. It is a 2010 Swift on a Ducato base. It has a smart charger.

I had a flat battery twice before. Once I never got to the bottom of, but the second time I traced to the newly replaced charger /PSU unit being on leisure battery charge only (not smart).

I tried it today to find it flat again. The PSU is set correctly. The leisure batteries are fine. The 240v plug in anti mouse units are working, but the vehicle battery is showing 3.7v and is as flat as a pancake.

The only thing I can find is that I left the lights on main beam. These go off when the key is removed, but does it draw from the battery? The radio fascia was removed so nothing there.

This is such a pain. Last time (9 months ago?) the RAC told me the battery was dead, but when I went back to the dealer (as they had reset the charger unit) they checked it and it showed up as OK. I thought this was resolved with the charger properly set, but it seems not

I will have to call Fiat Assist out, but can anyone throw any light on it? I cannot have this as sometimes I use it on the spur of the moment for work so there is not time to wait for the RAC.

Thanks
In frustration
Julie


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Julie

Do you have a solar panel fitted?
This however is not your problem but it could be a solution.


Regards
Ray


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

If you have really only got 3.7v ( is that confirmed by measuring across the disconnected battery with a separate meter?) then the battery is not just flat its dead/expired/had it.


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

4maddogs said:


> Any thoughts would be apppreciated.
> 
> My MH is permanently on hookup. It is a 2010 Swift on a Ducato base. It has a smart charger.
> 
> ...


We had similar 4 years ago when our Chausson(on Transit chassis) was new. It was eventually traced to a multi-pin socket at the rear that I think was intended for connecting a towed vehicle. It had filled with water due to a defective cable gland :roll:


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Brian, 3.7 is the reading on the PSU. i have not measured it. It was at a similar level when the RAC tested it, but B....h...s said it was OK.....and it has been for 9 months. Funnily enough I did check it about a week or so ago and it was fine then. 

Ray, I should not need a solar panel if it is plugged in should I? I do have a trickle charge type solar thingy, but have not used it with this van. I might give it a try, but, with it plugged in to the mains I really should not need it surely?

TDG, ah...I have had a towball fitted since the last problem. It has been OK since then and I had 10 days away in November, but that is worth a look.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

4maddogs said:


> snipped: I had a flat battery twice before. Once I never got to the bottom of, but the second time I traced to the newly replaced charger /PSU unit being on leisure battery charge only (not smart).
> 
> I tried it today to find it flat again. The PSU is set correctly. The leisure batteries are fine.


Hi Julie

Can you tell us which make and model PSU is fitted to your van as many PSU units do not automatically charge both the vehicle and leisure batteries from the mains hook up without user intervention .... ie. you have to select which battery you wish to be charged by selecting it on the control panel.

The terminology "smart charger" usually refers to the chargers ability to charge in stages to keep the batteries in perfect condition and not that it can decide which battery to charge.

This selection also controls which battery supplies all the various 12v appliances in the van.

If you have an alarm fitted that will most likely draw its supply from the vehicle battery and will eventually flatten it.

Sorry if you already realise this or if it does not apply to your vans PSU :wink:

Mike


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Mike,
It is the Sargent EC 450. Ian Sargent has been very helpful oreviously.

What I am not lear about is whether the control panel needs to have the vehicle battery selected? If it is smart it should charge on the the other so should not make any difference.

I need to get to the bottom of this as there is little point in having it on hookup if the battery goes flat.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Julie

Now I can be a bit more confidant since my van has the same type of charger/PSU....the display panel may be different but with mine on a mains hook up I need to choose which battery you wish to be charged.

Only when you have a solarpanel attached will the Sargent unit feed excess energy to the vehicle battery.

I leave my van on permanent hook up with the vehicle battery selected. That way my alarm system ( Vanbitz) does not flatten the battery. Then every couple of weeks I give the leisure batteries a charge for a couple of days.

If you follow this routine you should have no more flat batteries.

If you carefully read the Sargent documentation it has this to say about "smart" charging

chapter 3.3
_Smart Charging
On EC465 and EC460 PSU's, the system incorporates a smart charge feature, which monitors both
leisure and vehicle batteries and automatically adjusts and directs the charger power (and solar power
if a solar panel is installed) to maintain the leisure and vehicle batteries at an optimal level._

So no mention of exactly how the the EC450 works, unleess I have missed it :roll:

 EC450 instructions <<

Below is a picture of the control panel in our van ...I definitely have to select which battery I want to charge by selecting it with the "Battery Select" button. I did originally do quite a few voltmeter checks to establish exactly what was going on as the instructions for the various charger units vary .

Best of Luck ...hope it helps solve your problem.


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## CPW2007 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi Julie,

You might already have this info but this link explains the workings etc of your sargent ec450.

Having had a quick read of it myself, it appears that when the vehicle is hooked up to the mains, the *leisure battery* is the default battery which is charged initially. You have to *select* the vehicle battery on the control panel in order for that to be charged whilst on mains hookup. It's not unlike the system we have got in our Kontiki - and before I invested in a C Tek charging unit, the vehicle battery used to lose its charge even when hooked up on our driveway; I put this down to limited use over the winter months and the alarm system draining the battery along with a very cold spell a couple of winters ago! I have replaced the vehicle battery since then and have no further issues with it.

Hope this helps?  

Ooops - Spykal beat me to it!!    

Regards

Chris


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi.

I have suggested so many times before just fit a link cable of 3 core 1.5mm round cable with all cores connected together to give a single 4.5mm live feed from the leisure battery to the starter battery via a 10 amp fuse. leave this connected all the time you are on hookup and disconnect and remove before starting and driving. Cost less than £5.

steve & ann. ------ teensvan.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification. I think it defaults to vehicle battery when hooked up, but I changed it a week ago for some reason.....so it pulled the charge from the leisure batteries as the frost probes were on. 
I won't do that again!

Steve and Ann, that is a good idea, but not very practical in my van. i would have to either empty the locker to disconnect at the batteries end or take up the carpet and carpet protecter and open the battery locker each time. 

I will investigate other chargers/battery management systems too. I always worry about "running out" of power so a better indication of what is left in the leisure batteries would be useful.

Thanks again.
Julie


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

Forgive me if I am wrong on this, I thought the Sargeant unit switched between batteries automatically but priority goes to Leisure first and then main vehicle battery

However I am confident that one quick call to Ian will sort all for you.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Sideways,
That is what I had thought. I think the manual is not very clear and can be read on different ways.
I will call Sargent's again.

I am hoping it is that, though or something else is wrong.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Julie

I am also sure that a call to Sargent will get to the solution as they are a really helpful company .... BUT can I suggest that you get hold of a Multimeter as it can be a very useful bit of kit to have in a motorhome ..and using one for the simpler tasks is not that complicated or difficult.

I am suggesting this because even if your Sargent unit is supposed to auto select, which I doubt due to the problems you have had, you would with the multimeter be able to actually check and see what is happening at the batteries when the Sargent unit is working from a hook up. It will enable you check if the unit is charging as it should .
This cheap one from Maplin would be just fine for the simple job:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/domestic-multimeter-37279










All you need to do to check what is going on when the unit is charging is to check the voltages at the batteries. With no appliances in use and a mains hook up attached when a battery is being charged by your Sargent unit the voltage should be above 13 volts ( it may sometimes go to 14v+) when the battery is not being charged the voltage will be lower than 13v. So really it is quite a simple task to press the battery select control buttons and then check what is going on at each battery.

Mike

P.S. If the idea of using a multimeter is a bit daunting .. just come back and ask how to use it ...I know there are instructions included but there are loads of folk here who would walk you through it.


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## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*organplayer*

Strikes me the most reliable route is fitting a Battery Mate between the l/batts and engine batt, which will keep engine batt charged whether on elec.hookup or solars. On our prev m/hme, an Autocruise Stardream with the Sargent equipment,I still found the only sure fire way to ensure there was power where it was needed, was the Battery Mate.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

When we had our alarm fitted by Vanbitz, they fitted a small gadget which takes some charge from the leisure battery to the engine battery when the voltage in the engine battery is (I can't remember) half or one volt lower.
Works very well! Just a trickle charge, but enough!
It is a little plastic thing about 2 inches by one inch by half of one inch, obviously with wires.
Must be a kind of battery to battery thing!


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## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*organplayer*

Hi Grath. Van Bitz fitted same little unit for me when having the Webasto and Srikeback fitted. You may well have the Battery Mate as I have. Works a treat, reliable and no having to remember to switch charging system to different batteries. Fit and forget as they say.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Battery master*

This is it, The Battery Master

http://www.vanbitz.com/product/battery-master/


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

The vehicle battery charged whilst on hook up so is fine now. I hope it was not damaged, but it seems OK. 

I have ordered a multimeter as I doubt that the level went down as far as 3.7 really or I doubt the hookup would have charged it without it being kicked started first.

I will not fiddle with the charger again!!


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