# Email from Robert Goodwill and now edwina currie



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Hi
Im putting this on to my favourite Forum Site first so you are the first to read this as I have just recieved it. :lol: 


Dear Mrs Nye 

Your e-mail to Rt Hon David Cameron MP, the Leader of the Conservative Party copying him into the petition you sent to the Prime Minister about exempting motor homes from the new emissions charges has been sent to me as the Shadow Roads Minister.

I quite understand the problem that you face given that the average motor home does not travel many miles. I will be interested to hear what reaction you get from the Prime Minister from this petition and whether they are intend to revisit this. 

The London low emission zone area is actually administered by Transport for London and is under the control of Boris Johnson the Mayor of London. I therefore, suggest that you write to Boris to see if they have considered making any additional exemptions from the LEZ charges. I know there are a number of other private users of large of vehicles such as, horse boxes and those who transport historic vehicles who also feel quite annoyed that this is affecting them.

Thank you, again for bringing this to Mr Cameron’s attention. It may well come up in Parliament in which case I will be able to add motor caravans to the list of similarly effected vehicles that I had previously been made aware of. 

Thank you, again for writing.

Yours sincerely, 

Robert Goodwill MP for Scarborough & Whitby 
Shadow Transport Minister 
House of Commons 
London SW1A 0AA 
tel 020 7219 8268


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for putting that up, Mavis. It's good to see that there are some things going on in the background, and that it's not just disappearing. Keep up the good work.  

Mind you, if the organisations which are supposed to represent the interests of motorhomers (like the Caravan Club) had got the case over during the representation period, we wouldn't have had to do all this pressing. (and the CC wouldn't be losing revenue from their 2 london sites)


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Excellent Mavis, now that's what i call good work, you keep sending them emails out, i like your style


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Nice one,
Petition BoJo then.
C.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Well done Mavis.  

It was worth the effort then.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*e mail*



Zebedee said:


> Well done Mavis.
> 
> It was worth the effort then.


I was hoping you would see this first as I have been such a pain on the forums pushing this and standing up for my spelling mistake :lol:  like a little tiger. :lol: 
I feel sooooo happy now anyone coming for a drink.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

You haven't been a pain to me Mavis - nor anyone else I'm sure.

Everyone was on your side, even though some of the "_criticism_" might have sounded like criticism.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*email*



CliveMott said:


> Nice one,
> Petition BoJo then.
> C.


Oh I have he was the first I sent to and he is looking at it I also sent it to Europian Parliament under my human rights but I haven't heard anything yet. :lol: 
There is nothing yet from The Prime Minister to busy with Rossy and Brand :lol: :lol:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*

I know Zebedee :lol: :lol:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have been in direct communication with Mavis and am incredibly impressed by the immense amount of effort she has put into this.

She deserves the support of ALL of us; her case is clear; MH's do low mileage and are being targeted by the LEZ in spite of recommendatiosn to the contrary. Similar exclusion zones exist elsewhere in Europe and reasonable arrngements have been made for this very small group of vehicles, but not In London. Why has this prejudice been allowed to continue?

Why have we not heard about large campaigns by the organisations that are supposed to represent us? We are members of the CC and the C&CC and yet have been totally underwhelmed by the amount of campaigning either of these organisations appear to have been involved with or initiated. I would love to know why this is. London is a place that MH owners enjoy visiting, perhaps not on a daily basis, but perhaps once every few years, but £200 per day post 2012 is excessive profiteering by the London authorities - it certainly does not represent costs or damage. I wonder whether residents of London will be paid if they are "forced to breath in the deadly fumes by such vehicles"? - somehow I doubt it and suspect the revenue will go into the London coffers for other minority uses.

We should all see what we can do to to support Mavis in her campaign, writing to Boris MAY make him realise that she is not a lone voice - it is easy to avoid one person's opinion but much harder to ignore several hundred, or thousand such letters. If we all write expressing our concerns at this apparent injustice perhaps there may be another exemption added to the select few.

Good luck Mavis and thank you for continuing to raise this and keep it in all of our thoughts - we may not live in London but must expect that IF it goes through, other areas will soon follow when they realise what a "quiet bunch of people MH owners are - anyone can get more money from them without really trying".

I for one, am quite prepared to write, who else is prepared to put pen to paper (or perhaps press a few keys) - perhaps a "standard basic letter" could be produced that all of us could use and modify to sort our own situation.


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## sandyketton (Apr 13, 2006)

Mavis,
Thank you for sending the letters and for keeping up the pressure. Unfortunately you seem to be the only one, unless others are keeping their contributions quiet. 
I have in the past sent e-mails, signed petitions and written letters to all and sundry but all to no avail. 
We need the clubs and many letters and communications to possibly have an effect, even tho' I don't think that the politicians are too worried about a few thousand motorhomers.
What with LEZ, height restrictions and local and national prejudices against motorhomes we really need a national, powerful lobby.
Any ideas?
Sandy


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*

Thankyou for that Penguin 
Please email

Boris and his team can be contacted on the London Mayor website:

http://www.london.gov.uk/gla/contact.jsp#mayor

Or there is a fantastic forum on the Mayor of Londons Web Page but it would be great if you all emailed a letter to him he does answer (or his office does)
I have sent him all the petition and he said he would look at it with a working party.
I have not heard anything from Europe yet, nor the Prime Minister.
I was just going to thank Robert Goodwill may I send a copy of what you have just written to him as I think that it is just great??
Thank you so much for what you have said.
I asked the MCC Council of Management for help and they declined.
:lol: :lol: thanks again


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



sandyketton said:


> Mavis,
> Thank you for sending the letters and for keeping up the pressure. Unfortunately you seem to be the only one, unless others are keeping their contributions quiet.
> I have in the past sent e-mails, signed petitions and written letters to all and sundry but all to no avail.
> We need the clubs and many letters and communications to possibly have an effect, even tho' I don't think that the politicians are too worried about a few thousand motorhomers.
> ...


I think I will chain myself to no 10,s railings as Emily Pankhurst did but I think Gordon Brown would just step over me he only sees himself :lol: 
I have asked all the AA, Caravan and Camping and MCC they didnt listen to me why should they take the glory now :lol: :lol: Let the people Rise he he 8O sorry let the MOTORHOMERS Rise :roll:


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## sandyketton (Apr 13, 2006)

Mavis,

_I think I will chain myself to no 10,s railings as Emily Pankhurst did _

Count me in on this. However it's the little local councillors that are causing the problems outside London. I cannot chain myself to all the council railings!

I guess Boris' office is the best bet for LEZ. I cannot imagine central government or opposition being too fussed about this as I think Ken proposed it originally.

We need lots of letters from all over the south of England to have maybe any effect on London.

Let us know how we can help
Sandy


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

I have sent a email to Boris, got an auto response but i hope he gets it anyway


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



Rislar said:


> I have sent a email to Boris, got an auto response but i hope he gets it anyway


Yes you get that, then you get another from the office tomorrow saying Boris is sooo :lol: busy but he is duty bound to read evey email.
Thanks thats one lets hope more do it lets swamp him.
I have emailed back and thanked Robert Goodwill.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



locovan said:


> Hi
> Im putting this on to my favourite Forum Site first so you are the first to read this as I have just recieved it. :lol:
> 
> Dear Mrs Nye
> ...


Im knudgeing this back to the top of the top ten as I would like you all to see this after all the backing i got from this forum.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Locovan, humble pie duly eaten.


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## vmeldrew (May 3, 2007)

Think I read a while ago that Edwina Curry is now a motorhomer. She might be an ally who could make herself heard by the right people.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*email*



pippin said:


> Locovan, humble pie duly eaten.


Oh Please Pippin dont say that all the sparring is finished and I enjoyed every bit of it, as it kept it in the headlights and now at least someone in high places is at least looking at it.
It hasnt gone under the carpet not yet eh!!
Im waiting for what Boris has to say if you all start emailing him we might push him into something. :lol:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

OK - back into the fray it is then!

Congratulations that your petition made a mark with the authorities.
Just imagine how much more effective it might have been if the spelling, grammar - oh shut up pippin!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



pippin said:


> OK - back into the fray it is then!
> 
> Congratulations that your petition made a mark with the authorities.
> Just imagine how much more effective it might have been if the spelling, grammar - oh shut up pippin!


Oy!!! :twisted: I can soon get my arguing hat on again :lol: :lol:

I have just Lobbied my MP Julian Frazier, who has helped me sooo !!!much to Please Raise the question in Parliament.
Right Im off to the gym now to build my Muscles up :lol:


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

Living just inside the inside the London LEZ, I have already felt the effects of the zone, and after lot’s of correspondence, I’ve finally got them (Transport for London) to accept my MGW as 3500 kg from the Fiat Ducato nameplate (although they seem to wrongly have my net weight as 3600 kg, just shows what little basic arithmetic sense they have!). It does now give me some breathing space until Oct 2010 (but has already meant my van has been off the road for a couple of months), but I’ll need to try and comply by then unless Boris gets his act together. I tried writing to Boris, but his office “conveniently” redirect it to Transport for London. In my own case I’ve had several letter exchanges with them and expecting another reply any day. I’ve also reminded them that it is the regulation itself that is my concern and really needs to go direct to the London Assembly (Boris), but still struggling to break down their barrier, but not planning giving up without a fight.
As for registering with Transport for London (an essential requirement if you want to try to avoid the daily charge, at least in the short term), involves several forms, all geared to commercial opperators!!


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

I forgot to mention, I did write to the Caravan Club asking for help, and their reply simply referred me to the LEZ website!!


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Email sent to Boris today!

_ From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: LEZ

The Mayor would like to thank you for your interest in his work and he is keen to answer your query as fully as possible. As you will appreciate, he has received a very large amount of correspondence from Londoners since the election and it is proving quite challenging to respond as quickly as we would like.

Please note that non Greater London Authority (GLA) related queries will be referred to the appropriate functional body for them to reply e.g. transport related queries will be referred to Transport for London (TfL).

However, the Mayor is committed to responding to all appropriate correspondence and everything is being done to reply to your query as quickly as possible.

This is an automated message and therefore does not require any response._


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Mavis,

Here is a copy of an email I have sent to Boris, a few minutes ago.

Jock.

*Good day to you Mr Johnson,

Please may I take this opportunity to enquire, about why myself and thousands of other motorhomers like me, are expected to pay a fine of £200, each day our vehicles are travelling inside the London Emission Zone? As tourists, we come to the capital city of England, not to drive around every day and all day, but to pay a fee for a pitch at a caravan park or site, and use public transport on a daily basis to do our visiting and sightseeing. The next journey within the LEZ, would more than likely be to exit London, whilst heading for home. This typical visit would incurr a charge of £400. This is over and above the daily caravan site fees, public transport fees, entry fees to attractions etc, and lets not forget the high cost of theatre tickets either. All of which, contributes to the annual economy of one of the worlds most famous cities.
As a former member of HM Forces, and the British Fire Service, my desire to vist London came to a grinding halt on 07 July 08, due to the rules and regulations governing weights and engines of non compliant vehicles. Even though my vehicle had a brand new engine fitted in May 08, I still fall foul of the LEZ rules and regs!!!
Motorhomers do not normally travel the same amount of mileages, as their commercially chassis based counterparts.

As motorhoming members of the Caravan Club, and Caravan & Camping Club, which both have sites within the LEZ, we are discriminated against. This is due to the fact, that fellow members, with large 4x4's (with non compliant engines), towing large twin axle caravans, with a total outfit weight exceeding 3.5 /4.5 tonnes, do not fall foul of the LEZ rules and regs. Why is this so, when the vehicle example I have given, can be just as, if not more polluting than a low mileage motorhome.
I also shudder to think of the finacial implications that motorhome owners living inside the LEZ will suffer, every time they move off their driveways. These low mileage leisure vehicles are not cheap, (£20,000 - £175,000) and are usually purchased with a view to long term ownership.
As a fellow Brit, I find it strange that having registered with the German authorities for only €5.00, I am permitted to travel through any Germany city, in my 4.5 tonne motorhome, whilst displaying my "Umwelt"badge, and not have to worry about extortionate fines. Surely, a similar registration system could be introduced in London?
Please Mr Johnson, can you give this matter your urgent attention, in the hope that we motorhomers, including our European cousins, can visit our famous home city, without being unfairly "taxed" in the process?

Kindest regards,
*


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Excellent letter, Jock, especially the comparison with the German equivalent.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



locovan said:


> I think I will chain myself to no 10,s railings


I've got several spare pairs of handcuffs, should you decide to look into this further. 

Well done for being tenacious in the face of adversity. Persistence is a great strength, and coupled with good presentation, is a winner.  But enough of that - having read Robert Goodwill's reply, you should take heart. It's got the lot - chock-full of punctuation, grammar and spelling errors!


* ... and whether they *are intend* to revisit this [_gerund_] 
* I *therefore, suggest* that you write.... [_punct]_
* ...user of large of vehicles *such as, horse boxes*.... [_punct]_
* *Thank you, again* for bringing this to...... [_punct]_
* similarly *effected* vehicles [_spelling]_ 

So, no excuses for a Minister of Government - it's appalling. Make sure you pull him up for this when you reply. :roll:

Keep it coming. 

Dougie.


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## rogerandveronica (Aug 11, 2008)

Many thanks for all your hard work Mavis.

I also am amazed the the CC&C and the CC have not been lobbying, at least I have not heard of their lobbying. I am a member of both and will be writing to both. The CC will not be able to plead poverty. It would be a good use for a small chunk of the £35 million in bank.

Regards, rogerandveronica


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*email to boris*



JockandRita said:


> Hi Mavis,
> 
> Here is a copy of an email I have sent to Boris, a few minutes ago.
> 
> ...


I cant thank you all enough I feel Im not on my own today and I hope more of you send emails lets bombard him and fill his office up.
And Asprn to have you on my side Im *honoured* :lol: :lol: you say
*I've got several spare pairs of handcuffs, should you decide to look into this further*. 
Well funny enough Rays GGreat Grandfather helped to catch Charlie Peace on Blackheath so I cant let the family name down I have to be a fighter.
So hang onto them I might need them :lol: 
Well done all those that are trying to get something moving.
I have been just talking to a friend who in 2010 will not be able to visit her children in London as they always call in on the way to or from a Rally or holiday.
It is a very cruel law.
Onwards and upwards :brave:

Ps I have just reread and realise what you mean Asprn
* ... and whether they are intend to revisit this [gerund] 
* I therefore, suggest that you write.... [punct] 
* ...user of large of vehicles such as, horse boxes.... [punct] 
* Thank you, again for bringing this to...... [punct] 
* similarly effected vehicles [spelling]

I had already seen that and though you b-----s Pulled me up and said as I was sending to the PM I should be perfect and there you are they are not so I might make a Great PM Yet!!! not!!!! :lol:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: email to boris*



locovan said:


> Rays GGreat Grandfather helped to catch Charlie Peace


Charlie Peace, eh? I remember he had 3 pages to himself in _The Beezer_ (remember that, boys?) in 1966. On reflection, a strange character to put in a boy's comic. 8O Sorry for off-topic Mods, but it's a good one (>> link <<).

Dougie.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*E mail from Robert Goodwill about emissions*



JWS1 said:


> Living just inside the inside the London LEZ, I have already felt the effects of the zone, and after lot's of correspondence, I've finally got them (Transport for London) to accept my MGW as 3500 kg from the Fiat Ducato nameplate (although they seem to wrongly have my net weight as 3600 kg, just shows what little basic arithmetic sense they have!). It does now give me some breathing space until Oct 2010 (but has already meant my van has been off the road for a couple of months), but I'll need to try and comply by then unless Boris gets his act together. I tried writing to Boris, but his office "conveniently" redirect it to Transport for London. In my own case I've had several letter exchanges with them and expecting another reply any day. I've also reminded them that it is the regulation itself that is my concern and really needs to go direct to the London Assembly (Boris), but still struggling to break down their barrier, but not planning giving up without a fight.
> As for registering with Transport for London (an essential requirement if you want to try to avoid the daily charge, at least in the short term), involves several forms, to commall geared ercial opperators!!


I cant stress it enough that we all should check with a phone call to the DVLA as they have weights etc wrong and you could have a fine drop through your door as some of my friends have and each day the fine (if not paid within 24 hours)goes up to the grand sum of £1000.00 as a friends did while he was away abroad, 
No joke coming home and sorting all that out.
*to commercial geared operators* that is a problem with the conversions they just are not making them for Private vehicles as they haven't done the commercial ones yet and when they do it will cost £3000.00 and will only last to 2012. :lol: keep smiling
it is crazy.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: email to boris*



asprn said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > Rays GGreat Grandfather helped to catch Charlie Peace
> ...


Yes thats the one I have all his Ggrandfathers Police records very proud of him we are to.
Anyway back to topic Send Boris and Email :lol: xxx


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

Any members out there living in the Haverring area just outside the M25? Looking at the LEZ map http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/lez/areaofoperation/ it seems that whilst all the heavy commercial traffic on the M25 can continue to pollute the area (it seems the M25 is excempt), if you life there, and have a "non-compliant" motorhome, you suffer the heavy fine if you want to drive away from your home.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



Rislar said:


> I have sent a email to Boris, got an auto response but i hope he gets it anyway


The emails must be piling up so someone has to look at it and if my Local Mp does bring it up in the House too someone will have to answer.
I have invited Boris officially to the MCC Rally at Blackheath Firework Display next week to see what we get up to and why we Rally, although I have no thoughts that he will come but I would like him to send an understudy (you never know) :blob: i cant find a flying pig :lol: 
I have sent everything to Edwina Currie as her Motorhome is 10years old, so she wont be able to drive in London.
Just keep pushing on :roll:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



JWS1 said:


> Any members out there living in the Haverring area just outside the M25? Looking at the LEZ map http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/lez/areaofoperation/ it seems that whilst all the heavy commercial traffic on the M25 can continue to pollute the area (it seems the M25 is excempt), if you life there, and have a "non-compliant" motorhome, you suffer the heavy fine if you want to drive away from your home.


You are so right and there is a part in Surrey that does the same or at least on the left hand side of the map.
I have friends in Havering who will be caught in 2010 and they have an old Hymer with no more retirement funds to buy another Motorhome.
they will have to give up camping I just find it so sad.


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

I mentioned earlier that I've had several exchanges of correspondence with Transport for London, and I'm hoping that eventually I'll manage to get in contact with the mayor of London, but seems to be lots of barriers to break down first. My latest reply to a letter from the Tlf stratergy officer (more specifically relating to those of us living inside the zone) is pasted in here, and I'm hoping for a reply any day now.

Rhona Munck
Strategy Officer
Transport for London
Palestra
197 Blackfriars Road
London
SE1 8NJ

Your Ref: TFL087229

1st November 2008

Dear Ms Munck

I refer to my letter of 17th October, and earlier correspondence in this matter, and thank you for your reply of 27th October. You say that the Mayor of London is being made aware of the concerns of those affected by the LEZ, but I'm not convinced that he is really getting a true picture of the concerns of London based camper van owners, nor of tourists that want to visit London with their campers (and stay on campsites within the area). Nor are the implications of the London regulations fully getting through to potential future camper visitors to London. Earlier this week I read of a camper based tourist from Edinburgh who said on a forum what a wonderful time he had here, with plenty of photographs to share with others viewing the forum. His only brush with "the Law" was apparently whilst trying to take photos of buildings in the Docklands area using a tripod to rest his camera on. He was promptly stopped and advised of another London regulation that apparently stops tourists using a tripod to improve their picture quality, but that's another story! I did though point out to him that he may well expect to receive a letter from Transport for London if he was caught on camera inside the M25, and like most other camper van owners; he was completely unaware of the LEZ situation.

You are saying that campers are among the most polluting vehicles in the LEZ; I really don't believe it. There are far too few of us in the area (which also makes us an easy target I guess), to have any real influence on the vehicle generated pollution in the area, particularly when you also consider the frequency of use, perhaps, like in my own case, a once a month escape out of the zone for break from the pressures of living in London. Perhaps you can point me to the data that backs up your statement? I'd suggest that even the most fuel efficient car making daily journeys into London will pollute the area in a few weeks, far more than a London based camper would in a year, but I guess hitting car drivers with the same regulations would not be politically favourable.

As for the costs that you are imposing on London based campers, simply for living in the area, currently they are substantial, and excessive, and as yet the systems unproven, particularly for the relatively cold running, low use, Euro 2 engined vehicles. For any of these systems to work effectively, they currently need a very hot exhaust system, and just travelling in and out of the zone during occasional use will not, I suggest, raise the temperature sufficiently (if at all), until way outside of the zone. In my own case (MGW now confirmed as less than 3500 kg), I need to comply by Oct 2010, but quotes at the moment, for the unproven technology, are in excess of £2000, and themselves have a carbon footprint in the manufacture, fitting, running (higher exhaust back pressures, lower efficiency) and maintenance of such systems, and I doubt this has been analysed, in the case of the London based camper vans.

I note too that you refer to "Tfl believes that any small negative impacts of the LEZ on some owners will be more than offset by the health and air quality benefits it will bring". How do you define "small", particularly financially for the average retired London based camper van owner? If I genuinely believed that modifying London based camper vans as you suggest, would have even the slightest impact on the health of Londoners, then I'd agree with you, but as an energy engineer, I don't believe it. There are some far more important areas that really need addressing in London before we can ever have any real impact on the pollution levels here.

I really do hope that Tfl, and our Mayor, will review the Oct 2010 intentions, and the implications, particularly on London based camper van owners urgently, but so far, you have nor convinced me that the Mayor is even aware of the concerns of such a minority group.
Yours sincerely --

_ Re my reference to "far more important areas that need addressing". Last year I had the eye-opening experience of surveying the the poluting energy systems and services in some major London hospitals, and I've not yet recovered from the shock of what I've seen there, but that too is another story! [I/]_


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*E mail from Robert Goodwill about emissions*



JWS1 said:


> I mentioned earlier that I've had several exchanges of correspondence with Transport for London, and I'm hoping that eventually I'll manage to get in contact with the mayor of London, but seems to be lots of barriers to break down first. My latest reply to a letter from the Tlf stratergy officer (more specifically relating to those of us living inside the zone) is pasted in here, and I'm hoping for a reply any day now.
> 
> Rhona Munck
> Strategy Officer
> ...


_

I have copied and will email to Robert Goodwill, as I see it's the only way. 
Bombard the Oposition with the a weapon to use in Parliment. as I'm now going full out to get the Question raised in Parliment.
Im not a Political animal but Im turning into one.

Right I have passed your very well written Letter to My MP and Boris and Mr Goodwill to keep them imformed its all we can do keep fighting to the last as we have only 1 more year of being able to drive in and out of the London area as it is 2009 in 1.5 months time. :roll:_


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

I have sent the below email to BoJo

Sir,
The GLA is, quite rightly, concerned at the pollution being generated by diesel vehicles, including motor homes, as they traverse the capital. This concern is shared by our European friends and, like the GLA, some have put in place various measures designed to deter drivers of such polluting vehicles. However those measures appear to be much less draconian than those introduced under the previous administration. 

You may be aware that a number of Internet based organisations, such as 
motorhomefacts.com and motorhomefun.co.uk have forums where members discuss many and varied topics, including the London Low Emissions Zone.
This particular topic generates many strong feelings centred on two key features:
1 Cost
2 Those that live inside the zone

1 Cost
Obviously the charge is meant as an incentive to drivers not to enter the zone, but I would contend that, for the average motor home owner, the current charge is a very large penalty and way, way out of line with the charges applied by our continental cousins.
2 Those that live inside the zone
Can it be fair that those motor home owners who live in the zone are now effectively trapped, as they cannot use their vehicles (some of which are also able to be used as everyday transport) without incurring a charge that equates to a fine. That goes against natural justice and I cannot believe that this was one of the original intentions of the LLEZ.

I am aware of the “solutions”, for the above, advanced by TfL, but they are all able to be demonstrated as having been devised without sufficient research. 

It would be naïve of any of us to believe, now that the LLEZ is in operation, anything a small group of those affected could argue would lead to its abandonment, but I ask that you take these two points, in particular, into account when you review this policy, and I would like to think you may be able to ameliorate the effects of what, for some, has become a new version of the poll tax.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Two very good communications there from JSW1 and Bear 1.

Jock.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Two very good communications there from JSW1 and Bear 1.


Hear, hear and well done Mavis for stirring this up.

I now wonder if her original posting was a wind up to waken as many as possible to the problem. It certainly worked by keeping her thread going beyond it's natural life. So WELL DONE Mavis.

It reminds me of the shopkeeper who deliberately spelt "for Sale" as "for Sail" because he knew some people could not resist coming in to tell him. When they were in he sold them something!!

Approaching Her Majesties Opposition is a stroke of genius since they must be clutching at straws these days to find something with which to beat the Government. (if they are using straws though, that won't do much good? )


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

aultymer said:


> > It reminds me of the shopkeeper who deliberately spelt "for Sale" as "for Sail" because he knew some people could not resist coming in to tell him. When they were in he sold them something!!
> 
> 
> his name wasn't Arkwright, was it? :roll: :lol:


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## 94639 (May 1, 2005)

P p p......p p p p p.......p p p p.......p ..possibly


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill MP for Scarborough & Whitby*



aultymer said:


> > Two very good communications there from JSW1 and Bear 1.
> 
> 
> Hear, hear and well done Mavis for stirring this up.
> ...


Oh goodness me you found me out.  
I wanted the Prime Minister to think I was a little old lady with a straw hat on and an apron and a zimmer frame.
Couldn't be more wrong eh!! I have just got in from the gym class and do keep fit classes and for my 65th birthday rode the Harley Davidson.
Clever you :roll: yes it did stir it up! worked didn't it !! but I can not stop the battle.
I will send every letter you put on here to the Conservatives, My MP and Mr Goodwill, as they will get in next time, I hope so, and of coarse to Boris so come on Boys (and girls) you are doing well, let me have them, and as Jock and Rita say
*Two very good communications there from JSW1 and Bear 1. .* you sure do write brilliant letters give me more.

A big thank you.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

a bit like Andy Stothert, is Mavis 8) :lol:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*E mail from Robert Goodwill about emissions*

http://www.wpu.org.uk/pm/pm.cgi?login=andystothert&ID=62815&ID=62815&action=display

Why Him 
I used to be the Scribe for Kent MCC and I served on Kent Committee
I took a Rally to Ireland and did a write up Of my trip there, is that what you mean?? 
You all hide behind your Non Deplume's I dont know who I know and who I dont know here. hmmmmm 8)

Im editing here look Boris has declined my offer
Dear Ms Nye

Thank you for your email to the Mayor.

Much as he appreciates your invitation, his diary is full over the next few days making it impossible for him to accept.

He has asked me to pass on his apologies.

Yours sincerely

Zoe Newcombe
Mayor's Office

b*** Devil why doesnt he answer quick like that and say Oh Yes I will wrong the right :lol: :lol:


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Mavis, if you read the Fiat Judder thread on here you will find out just why you were being compared to him.

He won't let go either, and good luck to you both even though your respective fights have nothing to do with me.

Won't buy Fiat and don't want to go to London.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill Shadow Roads Minister*



aultymer said:


> Mavis, if you read the Fiat Judder thread on here you will find out just why you were being compared to him.
> 
> He won't let go either, and good luck to you both even though your respective fights have nothing to do with me.
> 
> Won't buy Fiat and don't want to go to London.


 it will be all over the country soon mark my words 8O

Oh yes and I have just read it but he has a juddering when reversing 
but I have a juddering when I go up hill its my knees


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## markwev (May 1, 2005)

I have sent the following email to Boris to try and weight to the cause. Well done Mrs Nye.

Dear Boris

Congratulations on your appointment as London Mayor. You have your critics, but none of us are perfect but at least you inject a fresh slant into politics. I hope you continue to succeed and do not get broadsided by any mis-intended gaffes. Perhaps you will be part of the next government too, good luck.

The reason why I feel compelled to write is regarding Mrs Nye's petition that Robert Goodwill MP for Scarborough & Whitby wrote to her about (I saw this on the following forum http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modul...emc=intellicontact&m=5173383&v=16725492&l=237

I would just like to add my weight (and at nearly 18 stones it is considerable enough not to be ignored!) to the debate and would also ask that you review the treatment of motorhomes. I don't think any owner would disagree with trying to reduce emissions in the country, but there are ways and means. Motorhome owners have already contributed heavily to the economy by undertaking to purchase them, fuel and maintain them. It is a shame to see them so heavily penalised for then entering a LEZ.

Thankfully we are fortunate enough that our vehicle is modern enough to be excluded from the charges, but I pity those that aren't.

I can understand a charge for the more polluting vehicles, but a minimum of £100 per day seems a little excessive for a leisure vehicle, it is not as if it is a lorry that is then going to be earning something for being there.

I still have a lot of friends in London and so the motorhome is the only way I can visit some of them because they do not have the space to put up our size of family.

So please bear us motorhomers in mind, if there has to be a charge, make it more realistic.

All the best.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Email from Robert Goodwill MP for Scarborough & Whitby*



markwev said:


> I have sent the following email to Boris to try and weight to the cause. Well done Mrs Nye.
> 
> Dear Boris
> 
> ...


Sent to my MP and Robert Goodwill thanks :lol:


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## trackerman (Aug 16, 2005)

Some people seem surprised at the lack of support from the CC and C&CC on this matter - perhaps it is because they are no longer "culbs" who support their members, but business who are only interested in making money!

As for the MMC - the "main club" seem to have totally lost the plot of who and what they are, and what they are supposed to be doing for their members! Has anyone heard where their National Rally is going to be next year, as it will not be at Newark?

Trackerman


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*E mail from Robert Goodwill about emissions*



trackerman said:


> Some people seem surprised at the lack of support from the CC and C&CC on this matter - perhaps it is because they are no longer "culbs" who support their members, but business who are only interested in making money!
> 
> As for the MMC - the "main club" seem to have totally lost the plot of who and what they are, and what they are supposed to be doing for their members! Has anyone heard where their National Rally is going to be next year, as it will not be at Newark?
> 
> Trackerman


I know here I go again :lol: :lol: 
I really do agree whole heartedly with you.
The Mcc forum tells you that people have become disinterested as the forum has very few (except me of coarse) participating.
The favourite place to hold the National is Hendra Holiday Site in Cornwall!!! How Cornwall will handle so many vans in May Bank Holiday I do not know

I have ask for the MCC Council of Management to help my cause and they declined when I had an Interview set up on the radio for them with The Mayor of London.
I have had more backing and help from this forum :lol: a great bunch of Friends faceless (meaning I dont see you) :lol: but lovely all the same.
:lol:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

markwev said:


> I have sent the following email to Boris to try and weight to the cause


Good job.



locovan said:


> a great bunch of Friends faceless (meaning I dont see you) :lol: but lovely all the same.


Trust me - it's the best way. I've met some of 'em. 8O 

Dougie.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*E mail from Robert Goodwill about emissions*



asprn said:


> markwev said:
> 
> 
> > I have sent the following email to Boris to try and weight to the cause
> ...


and you all have great sense of humour bless


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*edwina currie's email*

I wanted you to keep up with what I'm still doing and I will take Edwinas advice and contact Cabinet Minister for Transport I have also requested a Early Morning Motion in Parliament through my Local MP
Regards Mavis
From: Edwina Currie
Date: 08/11/2008 20:59:54
To: mavis nye
Subject: Re: Motor home petition

Hello Mavis
I'm sorry but the problem isn't very clear from this - no doubt I have missed
Something in the Caravan Club magazine but we are away right now, on the high seas (without Vanessa) so it is difficult to comment.
However I note that the deadline for signing the petition is passed so
We can't sign it. I agree that it would be a good idea to copy the German cities' exemptions for non-commercial vehicles for up to 500km a year. As for keeping a log book, many owners do that anyway.
The response from Robert Goodwill MP is encouraging. It suggests that if/when the legislation is presented to the House of Commons, the Opposition will put down amendments which will include motorhomes.
Meanwhile I suggest you write to Boris Johnson the Mayor of London who has responsibility for the London Emission Zone, and get your members to write on masse to their own MPs. If enough people do that, then the amendments will be welcomed when they are presented, and are more likely to be passed without a vote.
You could of course also try the Cabinet Minister for Transport - this govt is still in charge! - and make the same points.
Good luck
Edwina


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: edwina currie's email*



locovan said:


> I wanted you to keep up with what I'm still doing and I will take Edwinas advice and contact Cabinet Minister for Transport I have also requested a Early Morning Motion in Parliament through my Local MP
> Regards Mavis
> From: Edwina Currie
> Date: 08/11/2008 20:59:54
> ...


Excellent stuff Mavis, i like your style


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: edwina currie's email*



locovan said:


> I wanted you to keep up with what I'm still doing


Congratulations Mavis - this is now looking seriously like a serious campaign.

Dougie.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: edwina currie's email*



Rislar said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted you to keep up with what I'm still doing and I will take Edwinas advice and contact Cabinet Minister for Transport I have also requested a Early Morning Motion in Parliament through my Local MP
> ...


Your always there bless!!
I have just got back from MCC Kent rally in Blackheath as it was the fireworks display and Lord Mayors Parade in London we had 31 vans.
Next year is the last year that I and some of the other members can go to this Rally and the Marathon Rally which we hold at the same School by Greenwich Park it would cost me £200 LEZ fees the £20 rally fee and £21.04 fuel this is just stupid.
The members at the rally have begged me to keep fighting and I will.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Pity so many people will not be able to go to the Lord Mayor's Parade any more. 

You will have added this point to any future correspondence of course - especially another one to _(who else but)_ the Lord Mayor himself.

Not forgetting to mention how brilliant it was this year, and how sad you will all be to miss them in future.

Nothing like a bit of ego-fanning to gain attention!!   

More power to your elbow Mavis - give 'em some welly!!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> Pity so many people will not be able to go to the Lord Mayor's Parade any more.
> 
> You will have added this point to any future correspondence of course - especially another one to _(who else but)_ the Lord Mayor himself.
> 
> ...


Hi Zeb
Can I borrow your springs to keep jumping at then :lol: 
I will follow your advice but its the wrong Mayor (why we have 2 Mayors of London I cant quiet work that one out so it wasnt Boris it seems to have something to do with Parliament's Lord Mayor)
Ive been told that 1 million pounds go up in the sky when Im watching the fireworks at Blackheath and then the same for the fireworks at the Lord Mayor's show its all about money. :lol:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: edwina currie's email*



asprn said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted you to keep up with what I'm still doing
> ...


Thanks Dougie it has taken a year and I have another year to go if it doesnt work I will borrow your handcuffs and chain myself to the railings


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*classic cars*

On another forum for me is this true??? 8O 
Well this is only the start.

Classic Car Show Cancelled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may think what are classic cars doing here.Well I have just heard that the classic car show held at Ally Pally in London has been cancelled.It is usually the first big show of the year .It has been cancelled due to a lot of the exhibitors and auto jumbler's pulling out as a lot of them drive old diesel vans, and either can't afford the LEZ or buy a new van ,and of course the congestion charge bill aswell.The exibitors are therefore looking for a venue outside of the LEZ but this probabally won't be ready for 2009.I get the message keep out of London.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Look upon it as more ammo Mavis.  

Something else to quote in the emails. 8)


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: classic cars*



locovan said:


> ....a lot of the exhibitors and auto jumbler's pulling out as a lot of them drive old diesel vans


I'd be careful not to be sidetracked here. "Old diesel vans" won't help your case, and will probably harm it. The LEZ is designed for such things; you are trying to make a case for motor caravans to be exempted either partially or totally.

It's ammo, but you'll shoot yourself in the foot if you're not careful.

Dougie.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: classic cars*



asprn said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > ....a lot of the exhibitors and auto jumbler's pulling out as a lot of them drive old diesel vans
> ...


I do agree with you :lol: I was just showing how this is just what will happen.
London will loose all its large crowd drawing Venues because not everyone exhibit's this years model or travels in this years vehicle to get there and what will happen in the Olympics 2012 they have just not thought this out properly.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Mavis,

Below is a reply to my previous email, (posted on here), to Boris Johnson, Mayor of London. 
I can't help thinking that it is a "template" reply, as I have had a similar reply when I enquired previously as an individual to TFL.
Unfortunately, it leaves me with not a lot else to say on the matter, other than...............I am fair scunnered, (not very happy).

Regards,

Jock.

*Our Ref: TFL088299

Transport for London
London Low Emission Zone
Palestra, 4th Floor
197 Blackfriars Road
London SE1 8NJ
Fax 020 3054 2007
www.tfl.gov.uk

12 November 2008

Dear Mr T#####t

RE: London Low Emission Zone

Thank you for your email of 5 November 2008 addressed to Mayor of London, Boris Johnson regarding the London Low Emission Zone (LEZ). As a Customer Liaison Officer the Mayor's Office has asked me to respond.

The aim of the LEZ is to improve air quality in London by deterring the most individually polluting vehicles from driving in the area. London has the worst air pollution in the UK and amongst the worst in Europe. Air pollution affects the quality of life of a large number of Londoners, especially those with respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. It is estimated that some 1000 premature deaths and a similar number of hospital admissions occur each year due to poor air quality in London. Many more people experience discomfort as a result of air quality aggravating existing conditions.

Currently the LEZ will apply: 
ï‚· From 4 February 2008 to all diesel engined lorries over 12 tonnes;
ï‚· From 7 July 2008 to all diesel engined lorries over 3.5 tonnes and buses and coaches over 5 tonnes with more than 9 seats 
ï‚· From 4 October 2010 to all diesel engine vans over 1.205 tonnes and minibuses under 5 tonnes with more than 9 seats.

Whilst sympathetic to your situation, Transport for London (TfL) does not discount or exempt motorhomes from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme. It would not be consistent or fair to operators of similar vehicle types in other sectors if an exemption or discount were granted for motorhome owners. Motorhomes have similar emissions characteristics to the Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) and Light Goods Vehicles (LGVs) from which they are derived, and as such TfL and the Mayor consider that they should be applied to the same emissions requirements. Transport for London does not distinguish between vehicles on the basis of mileage because no matter what their operational use, they still emit the same level of pollutants per kilometre travelled.

TfL acknowledges that the LEZ could lead to increased costs for some vehicle owners such as you, due to the need to upgrade or renew vehicles. TfL has taken account of these costs in developing the financial appraisal of the LEZ, including the costs of fitting and maintaining particulate abatement
equipment. Overall, TfL believes that any small negative impacts of the LEZ on some owners will be more than offset by the health and air quality benefits it will bring.

Please note that for reasons of consistency, TfL have based vehicles that are subject to the LEZ on vehicle classifications registered with the DVLA. 4 X 4 vehicles are predominantly classified as Private Light Goods Vehicles (PLGs), and as such, are not subject to the LEZ. Motorhomes and Motor Caravans are generally derived from LGVs, HGVs, Minibuses and Coaches. All of these vehicles are therefore subject to the LEZ.

Operators of vehicles which do not meet the specified emissions standards for the LEZ have several options to comply with the scheme including: 
ï‚· Certifying that an eligible engine meets the required standard. 
ï‚· Fitting particulate abatement equipment to the vehicle. It should be possible to fit such equipment to reduce a vehicle's particulate matter emissions sufficiently to meet the LEZ emissions standards. Normally this would either be a particulate trap or a partial filter. Information on approved abatement equipment and suppliers for fitting such equipment can be found on TfL's website at www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon, together with the processes for getting approved abatement equipment certified once fitted. 
ï‚· Re-engining a vehicle with an engine that meets the LEZ emissions standards.
ï‚· Converting a vehicle to gas.
ï‚· Purchasing a newer vehicle that meets the LEZ emissions standards.
ï‚· Paying a daily charge.

Operators who are considering fitting particulate abatement equipment to their vehicle are advised to contact all ten approved suppliers of abatement equipment, who may be able to provide competitively priced solutions for your vehicles.

I hope that I have further clarified TfL's position on the matter, and that you find this information useful. However, if you require any more information on the Low Emission Zone, Transport for London (TfL) have set up a dedicated enquiries service to help vehicle owners understand what the LEZ means for them and what they may have to do to comply with the scheme. TfL's website www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon provides much detailed information about the LEZ, alternatively call the dedicated call centre on 0845 607 0009.

Yours sincerely

Rakhi Patel
Customer Liaison Officer
Congestion Charging
Transport for London*


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

Same reply I received first time, but had several exchanges since, and gradually getting away from standard template response. Don't be put off, just responded by challenging all their standar rubbish etc - keep up the pressure. I've been waiting over 2 weeks now for reply to my last letter, so perhaps they have run out of the standard templates, and are having to try and think a bit more logically about their reply, here's hoping!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*lez*



JockandRita said:


> Hi Mavis,
> 
> Below is a reply to my previous email, (posted on here), to Boris Johnson, Mayor of London.
> I can't help thinking that it is a "template" reply, as I have had a similar reply when I enquired previously as an individual to TFL.
> ...




*Rakhi Patel
Customer Liaison Officer
Congestion Charging
Transport for London *

Yes thats the give away this is the standered reply from London Transport
It is the rules and regs that are in place 
When Edwina sends her Letter
is the reply Im waiting for and the NO 10 petition email so that the fight can begin.
Thanks for sharing this with us though :lol:


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## artc (Feb 6, 2007)

*congestion charge*

I might be missing the point, but if your venicle does not meet the the required emission standard then you are sending out noxious fumes and you are polluting the air, does it make any difference if you are a large wagon or a motorhome or if you only do a low mileage, seems to me that the charge was put there to protect the population and as the letter points out if you want to travel in the area you can fit equipment to stop your vehicle polluting. I know from the comments that i have read that i am going to be berated for this view, but would you have tried to stop the campaign to have the lead removed from petrol because it would put up the price ?


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: congestion charge*



artc said:


> I might be missing the point, but if your venicle does not meet the the required emission standard then you are sending out noxious fumes and you are polluting the air, does it make any difference if you are a large wagon or a motorhome or if you only do a low mileage, seems to me that the charge was put there to protect the population and as the letter points out if you want to travel in the area you can fit equipment to stop your vehicle polluting. I know from the comments that i have read that i am going to be berated for this view, but would you have tried to stop the campaign to have the lead removed from petrol because it would put up the price ?


I take it you dont live in London so the £100 fine out and £100 home would mean nothing to you.
We want the German Umwelt Zone, as it is fairer, to the residents as well as travellers.
We know the air must be cleaned up, but we are talking about soot here.
There is not at this moment a conversion kit for our Motorhomes as they are still concentrating on Heavy Goods, but when they are out ,they will only last to 2012 when the Euro 4 comes into play 
They will cost in the region of an average price £3000.00 some as high as £5000.00 
If you travel on the M25 and break done you could be towed into London by the AA or a Garage if their vehicle complys, great, but you will have to pay £100 fine to come out.
We have couple of members in the MCC now stuck on their drives and by 2010 a lot more will be.
I hope this explains the situation the Londoners find themselves in.


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

I'd also like to add, London today the rest of the UK tommorrow, don't kid yourself that this is about cleaner air, we know when we are being taken for a ride (excuse the pun).


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## 117442 (Oct 14, 2008)

Well said Mavis. In my own case, living just inside the London LEZ, yes I'm expected to pay for unproven technology, and currently ineffective (for the Fiat Euro 2 engine), which apart from having its manufacturing and maintenance carbon footprint, it is also likely to reduce the overall system efficiency, so to attempt to satisfy the LEZ, I am effectivelly also penalised for the my miles I do outside the zone (plus of course the massive supply, fitting and maintenace cost - a Londoners Stealth Tax for the 100 ish miles escaping from the zone each year). If they make it stick in London, it won't be long before it moves to your part of the country, so act now to stop this ill thought-out madness.


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