# Habitation check comment by dealer on a 10M lead



## headfirst

Had hab check done last week and was told during the run through of the results that our 25 metre mains cable had failed. my comment was well I hope you have replaced it as it was supplied by you less than 12 months ago, lot of argy bargy later we had a new one and the service manager was billing the sales guy for it, result!!
The interesting thing though was the comment that if we had had a 10 metre one in the van, it would have been confiscated as under EU law they are banned, something to do with the power could not be dissipated in the remaining length if it were cut in half with power connected.
Personally do not understand why but he said their technicians are taught this on their course and have to sign to say they will remove all 10M leads from vans in for hab checks.

Anyone else heard this or can explain why it is thought to be necessary?


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## listerdiesel

Depends on the conductor size and the fusing at the source etc etc.

Sounds like a load of twaddle, but there's probably something doing the rounds.

A 2.5mm cable with a 13A fuse on a 240V supply would be fine, a 1.5mm cable with 13A fuse would also be fine, but they look at cable heating at full load and things like that, which rarely applies for most motorhome users.

Peter


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## Sandy_Saunders

News to me. Our van was supplied with a ten metre cable when we bought it new in 2013 and I've certainly never heard anything about them being illegal.

They won't catch me with it on a habitation check though, I only use it at home for keeping the van connected when parked. We take a 25 metre cable away with us. That said, I divided the cable into two lengths, one of about seven metres and one of the remaining eighteen metres, this makes life easier when you don't need a long cable. So I don't know what they would make of the seven metre cable.

Come to think of it, does the standard habitation service include the mains cable?

Sandy


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## Grizzly

Were they trying to pull your leg ? Write to the MD and ask him to quote the relevant legislation.

G


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## rayc

> headfirst said:
> 
> 
> 
> The interesting thing though was the comment that if we had had a 10 metre one in the van, it would have been confiscated as under EU law they are banned, something to do with the power could not be dissipated in the remaining length if it were cut in half with power connected.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hope that the resistance of the cable was so low that no 'power' would be dissipated in it. Power can only be 'in the cable' if there is sufficient volts drop and current being drawn through it. Volts drop can only occur if there is resistance and in a good cable it should be virtually nil. Of course there would be less volts drop in 10m of cable than in 25m so it stands the explanation on its head.
> I would have been very interested in the explanation with respect to ohms law. Having worked on communications systems all my life, with thousands of different lengths of cable between distribution boards and individual equipment, I consider the claim to be a load of tosh. If it were true then houses further away from supply transformers would be receiving electricity with differing characteristics and presumably the houses nearest to the transformer would have problems?
> I see that the well respected Leisure Shop direct are currently selling 10 m leads which they claim to have CE approval. http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/ca...n_electric_hook_up_mains_lead_230v_-_10m.aspx
> 
> PS: Reminder to myself do not take the motorhome to a dealer for habitation check. The course that the OPs dealer alluded to was the CITO Test and inspection one. A few years ago the NCC were trying to get their caravan site owning members, such as the CC abnd C&CC to only let those with a current electrical safety certificate connect to teir supplies. The dealers put loads of guys through the courses only for the site owners not to implement it.
> http://www.cito.org.uk/electrical-training/test-inspection
Click to expand...


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## EJB

I carry a 10m, 15m and a 25m.
The 10 and 15 used to be a 25m until I rearranged it 8O 

I wouldn't let anybody 'steal' my 10m lead :wink:

PS. At least on the continent they won't have a problem as they carry hundreds of meters on rolls.....and rolls ...and rolls :roll:


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## erneboy

Yes, I would regard it as theft too. They are at liberty to do what they want with their own stuff, but not with mine. The cheek of it. What do they think their relationship with paying customers is I wonder? Alan.


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## Grizzly

Don't get so indignant all ! I am sure it was a silly attempt at humour. I' d call their bluff.

Perhaps it was an attempt by the service manager to see how fast he could stir up the MH forums !

G


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## erneboy

We can only comment on the information provided. Though it does seem crazy.


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## Grizzly

erneboy said:


> We can only comment on the information provided. Though it does seem crazy.


The information was provided by one man who, possibly because of pique over losing out over the faulty cable, was trying to pull the OP s leg.

Before anyone gets indignant over this would it not be sensible to ask the firm concerned for their reason for the supposed ban on 10 m cables ? They are still being sold, as MH accessories, by all the usually responsible firms.

G


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## headfirst

Grizzly said:


> Were they trying to pull your leg ? Write to the MD and ask him to quote the relevant legislation.
> 
> G


Have written to the Service manager asking for more info, I await his response.

We are sure it wasn't a wind up, there was no point, our 10M cable was at home, they did not know we had one. He was billing the salesman for a new one and obviously looking forward to it!


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## Zebedee

It might also be worth considering why you are not legally obliged to use a 25 metre cable on the kettle at home.

Same illogic applies.

Dave :roll:


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## Glandwr

I can't understand how asking for a hab. Check, that is not a legal requirement, can somehow bestow legal obligations onto the technical operative other than to advise. Total and utter bull in my opinion.

Dick


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## pippin

Technically it is a very simple matter that involves only the basic elements of the Law of Herr Ohm.

What you were told is total and utter botox!

From someone who went on a course, understood nothing about it and tried to be an "expert".

Absolutely risible - I would have fallen about laughing had it been me.

Talking of habitation checks - total waste of money.

You can do virtually all of it yourself - except the gas safety check.

Even then, MH dealers seem to gold-plate the price of doing it compared to your local gas man.


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## pete4x4

Of course it's bollox, 10m cables will dissipate less heat anyway due to having less resistance on its length and cutting it in half, whats all that about?

Total Rubbish!


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## Mrplodd

Never ever paid for a habitation check. (and never will :wink: )

All they do is try everything to see if it works1 I can do that myself thank you :lol: I have no intention of ever paying someone to tell me what I already know. 

What I cannot do is a damp check. I pay my local dealership cash for one of those each year, about forty quid which is a lot less than the cost of a (useless) hab check. its a bit like extended warranties. I bought a toaster a while ago for £14.99 salesman tried to sell me an extended warranty for £9.99 and couldnt understand why I didnt want it. Stupid boy !!!!


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## pippin

I will probably get a bit of flak for this>

Anybody who actually listened in their science lessons at school is probably competent enough to do a gas check.

Well, certainly so if you did A Level science.

I am NOT suggesting that anyone actually takes note of my comments above.

Simply that I feel absolutely confident that I am competent to check the gas system in our MH.

E&OE


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## Glandwr

I’ve had one hab test done since getting the van, mainly to comply with warranty. I was extremely surprised to see that none of our three boilers were looked at.

I was given a check list afterwards and decided that from then on I would do them myself.

The chap that I used is a well respected sole operator who I often see praised on forums.

I had used him before for different things more than once and was used to watching him as he worked and he was quite willing to chat as he did. HOWEVER for the hab test. He insisted that he did it while I sat in the waiting room. That raised my suspicions that it was money for old rope. When he gave me the completed check list it confirmed it. I suspect he thought it too,

Dick


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## Zebedee

> Glandwr said:- When he gave me the completed check list it confirmed it. I suspect he thought it too,


Those checklists always make me suspicious Dick.

I would practically guarantee that the boxes are ticked over a coffee in the staff rest room - hopefully *after *the work has been completed.

They are most unconvincing documents, assuming their purpose is to reassure the customer that all the work has been completed.

My tugger mate got so annoyed with shoddy service at inflated prices that he connected his pigtail to an empty gas bottle. When the (so called) engineer gave him the checklist, which said he had tested the hob, oven, boiler etc., my friend asked him how he managed it without a gas supply.

The ensuing conversation would be censored on here . . . if we still had any Mods! :wink:

Dave


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## rayc

When my new caravan was due its first annual service the dealership kindly offered to come to my house and do it for an extra £25. I had just had my drive resurfaced and asked my wife to tell them to use a sheet of ply that I had under their jack when inspecting the brakes, bearings etc. 
When I got home I asked my wife how it went and did they use the sheet of ply? the reply was that as the service technician was alone he was prevented by H&S rules from jacking it up and removing the wheel etc. The service booklet was stamped and I had a nice sticker with the year and tick in the window. Of course I made a stink and the dealership sent two men to complete the job and £50 rebate.
Tick Sheets and stamped service records mean nothing without you having the confidence the job is done correctly. In my case it was worse than no tick sheet or service stamp because I would have thought the brakes had been inspected and adjusted.
Never again will I use a dealership for service and repairs. If I could not do it myself I would use independents, such as Autovan Services of Wimborne.


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## Glandwr

Zebedee said:


> Glandwr said:- When he gave me the completed check list it confirmed it. I suspect he thought it too,
> 
> 
> 
> Those checklists always make me suspicious Dick.
> 
> I would practically guarantee that the boxes are ticked over a coffee in the staff rest room - hopefully *after *the work has been completed.
> 
> They are most unconvincing documents, assuming their purpose is to reassure the customer that all the work has been completed.
> 
> My tugger mate got so annoyed with shoddy service at inflated prices that he connected his pigtail to an empty gas bottle. When the (so called) engineer gave him the checklist, which said he had tested the hob, oven, boiler etc., my friend asked him how he managed it without a gas supply.
> 
> The ensuing conversation would be censored on here . . . if we still had any Mods! :wink:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

*******************************************************

Don't get me wrong Dave. I trust this guy completely. I did however get the feeling that he was slightly ashamed and sheepish about exploiting the system. There again I suppose the custumer is always right.

He told me that my pig tails were out of date but then did himself out of a sale by saying that in his opinion they would last a few more years 

Dick


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## Penquin

with comments such as those that you have passed on including the balderdash about the lead and the comments about pigtails I would not be darkening their doors again.........

Such things are to me like the tip of an iceberg - if he knows that much is there any limit to his level of incompetence?

It would certainly not encourage me to trust him in any respect........

Trust has to be earned - and his comments would prevent that IMO......

Dave


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## Grizzly

Penquin said:


> with comments such as those that you have passed on including the balderdash about the lead and the comments about pigtails I would not be darkening their doors again.........
> 
> Such things are to me like the tip of an iceberg - if he knows that much is there any limit to his level of incompetence?
> 
> It would certainly not encourage me to trust him in any respect........
> 
> Trust has to be earned - and his comments would prevent that IMO......
> 
> Dave


I can' t believe that any firm has a company policy of confiscating anything, let alone legally owned leads. This is someone having an end of day fit of small boyishness. Lets see what reply the OP gets to his letter before we condemn the whole firm or wreck their reputation. I don' t suppose the firm he works for are even aware that he has made such a statement in their name
.

G


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## Penquin

"It only takes one bad apple..........."

Dave


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## pippin

It was the same with the Portable Appliance Test (PAT).

The practice of routinely chopping off the mains plug on items that failed was outrageous.

Countless thousands of pounds worth of good electrical/electronic kit was needlessly junked.

Why?

Because most failures were due to loose wires in the plug.

The "tester" could have rectified those quickly and simply on the spot.

A huge con was perpetrated.


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## rayc

> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the same with the Portable Appliance Test (PAT).
> 
> The practice of routinely chopping off the mains plug on items that failed was outrageous.
> 
> Countless thousands of pounds worth of good electrical/electronic kit was needlessly junked.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because most failures were due to loose wires in the plug.
> 
> The "tester" could have rectified those quickly and simply on the spot.
> 
> A huge con was perpetrated.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife is a volunteer for a children's hospice in Dorset. It has a large store where donated items go to. Electrical items are dumped straight into a skip for H&S reasons. Brand new makes no difference.
Click to expand...


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## rayc

> Grizzly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can' t believe that any firm has a company policy of confiscating anything, let alone legally owned leads.
> 
> G
> 
> 
> 
> When I had my refillable gas system fitted at one of the shows the fitter took my original HP hose. When I asked him for it back he said "it is out of date so I took it to be destroyed".
Click to expand...


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## headfirst

*10M lead update from op*

Have not spoken or had reply from SM as he is on holiday but have spoken to his assistant who was present at the time. He says that on the NVQ course that their technicians do, they are taught that 10M leads must not be used as hook up cables and should where possible be removed from customers MH's and caravans.
Now please do not shoot the messenger, I merely asked if anyone knew why this was the case, it appears and I don't disagree with the majority of you that it is stupid and not realistic and I take your word that technically it is incorrect.
However that is what we have been told, we have since been away for 3 days and used our 10M lead and I am here writing to you, our MH is in one piece and not charred or smoldering so all is well and good!
Thanks for all the comments, I would be interested in hearing if ever any of you have a hab check, whether you are asked or told about the 10M cable scenario.


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## Grizzly

rayc said:


> . Electrical items are dumped straight into a skip for H&S reasons. Brand new makes no difference.


Our local Sue Ryder shop will take them. I wonder if there is one near your hospice shop ? I imagine they have back room staff who can check things more thoroughly other than a via a simple PAT test ( when did it stop being CLARE and is that the same thing ?)

I can understand why charity shops do this. Essentially they are guaranteeing that what they sell is safe for use. If it isn't and someone is electrocuted then clearly the hassle and expense would be unsupportable.

I'm still intrigued as to why the technicians at this garage are gullible enough to accept that 10m cables are dangerous.

G


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