# Daylight Running Lights DIY for Ducato



## GerryD

Bought a Daylight Running Light kit from Ledcom at Newbury. Fitted them in 2 hours last night. Easy to fit and look great. Price £69.99, Genuine Hella are £249 plus VAT.
They work by sensing the alternator charge voltage and dim when headlights are switched on. Wiring is completely separate from Canbus.

Ledcom

Gerry


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## MikeCo

Why not just turn the headlights on like my Volvo does.

Mike


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## tonka

On my latest van, daytime lights can be selected to be on or off via the dash computer.. Dont know if this is a new thing on Euro 5 versions or available on earlier models.
They have their uses, would never ride a motorbike without some lights on all the time..


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## GerryD

MikeCo said:


> Why not just turn the headlights on like my Volvo does.
> 
> Mike


Your Volvo may do, but newer ones don't. They use LEDs and anyway Volvos always used dimmed headlights. Wanted DRLs, but wired correctly not like the numpties who just have a switch on the dash and no proper control. They are just as bad as the people who drive around illegally on foglights.
Why not turn the headlights on? Because, as Volvo found, dipped headlights can cause dazzle, especially to pedestrians. Also, the whole idea of DRLs is to improve visibility of the vehicle at the front; by switching on headlights you are burning all of the external lights.
Gerry


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## MikeCo

GerryD said:


> MikeCo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just turn the headlights on like my Volvo does.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Your Volvo may do, but newer ones don't. They use LEDs and anyway Volvos always used dimmed headlights. Wanted DRLs, but wired correctly not like the numpties who just have a switch on the dash and no proper control. They are just as bad as the people who drive around illegally on foglights.
> Why not turn the headlights on? Because, as Volvo found, dipped headlights can cause dazzle, especially to pedestrians. Also, the whole idea of DRLs is to improve visibility of the vehicle at the front; by switching on headlights you are burning all of the external lights.
> Gerry
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information I now see what you mean and what the difference is, I can actually turn mine off but I know on the Volvo I had a few years ago I could not.
I did read somewhere that in the future sometime DRL's will be compulsory but not sure where I read it or when it will be.

Mike


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## GerryD

Mike,
They are already a legal requirement on new cars first to market and will be on vans and commercials from about July or August this year.
Gerry


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## urbanracer

I have a EURO 5 not seen this daylights option,what do you do to bring it up?


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## gnscloz

i fitted these couple of years ago, had to make surround,
wished yours had been around then less hassle


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I always drive with my headlights on. Ever since I had a vovo many decades ago. No one should be able to say " I didn`t see you mate"
My Saab has DRL`s but I still have the headlight on.

I have just been out on motorbike, with main beam on. Some numpties can`t see motorcycle headlights.

Be safe Be seen.

Dave p


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## teemyob

*Scandinavians*



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I always drive with my headlights on. Ever since I had a vovo many decades ago. No one should be able to say " I didn`t see you mate"
> My Saab has DRL`s but I still have the headlight on.
> 
> I have just been out on motorbike, with main beam on. Some numpties can`t see motorcycle headlights.
> 
> Be safe Be seen.
> 
> Dave p


I use headlights a lot. Pity so many don't. especially when weather is poor or low sun behind them.

I guess that is why the EU is wanting the laws changed.

I bought These  recently. If the weather is good, might put them on at the weekend.

I am intrigued by the Gerry's wiring set up.

I was going to put them on a dash switch so I could have control.

TM


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## SaddleTramp

urbanracer said:


> I have a EURO 5 not seen this daylights option,what do you do to bring it up?


They will only be fitted if vehicle supplied AFTER 7th February 2011 that is when it became law.

You cannot switch your side lights on or in fact ANY light that is controlled by a switch, The law states that DLR's are to switch on automatically with ignition and to either switch off or dim when other lights are switched on, They CANNOT be controlled by a switch.


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## SaddleTramp

*Re: Scandinavians*



teemyob said:


> I use headlights a lot. Pity so many don't. especially when weather is poor or low sun behind them.
> 
> I guess that is why the EU is wanting the laws changed.
> 
> I bought These  recently. If the weather is good, might put them on at the weekend.
> 
> I am intrigued by the Gerry's wiring set up.
> 
> I was going to put them on a dash switch so I could have control.
> 
> TM


You can find proper DRL wiring harness <<HERE>> if you want ordinary lighting to work correctly or even LED's


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## DTPCHEMICALS

MOT fail if not wired correctly. Something with constructio and use.

Dave p


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## SaddleTramp

I can Highly recommend <<These>> they are very easy to fit and look brilliant, Three wires, 1 to pos on Battery, 1 to Earth, 1 to side lights, Then they come on with Ignition and dim when lights switched on.


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## pete4x4

SaddleTramp said:


> urbanracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a EURO 5 not seen this daylights option,what do you do to bring it up?
> 
> 
> 
> They will only be fitted if vehicle supplied AFTER 7th February 2011 that is when it became law.
Click to expand...

I believe it's August this year for motorhomes to comply


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## Addie

GerryD said:


> Bought a Daylight Running Light kit from Ledcom at Newbury. Fitted them in 2 hours last night. Easy to fit and look great. Price £69.99, Genuine Hella are £249 plus VAT.
> They work by sensing the alternator charge voltage and dim when headlights are switched on. Wiring is completely separate from Canbus.
> 
> Ledcom
> 
> Gerry


I do like these and have considered them for a while, my only concern being is that are located in the OEM fog light location and people mistaking them for foglamps and getting foglamp rage or a jobs worth copper trying to issue a £60 ticket!

That souldn't happen since a few manufacturers are using this location to fit DRL's in the intrim between vehicle facelifts (Volvo V50, Skoda Octavia etc).

Did you paint your surrounds Gerry?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

These would be a safe bet. Cut down speeders too.

Dave p


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## Scattycat

tonka said:


> On my latest van, daytime lights can be selected to be on or off via the dash computer.. Dont know if this is a new thing on Euro 5 versions or available on earlier models.
> They have their uses, *would never ride a motorbike without some **lights on all the time..[/*quote]
> 
> In France it is compulsory. You would be fined if you did not have them on


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## SaddleTramp

pete4x4 said:


> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> urbanracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a EURO 5 not seen this daylights option,what do you do to bring it up?
> 
> 
> 
> They will only be fitted if vehicle supplied AFTER 7th February 2011 that is when it became law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe it's August this year for motorhomes to comply
Click to expand...

Yes it is on the legal side, But with MH being PLG a lot were fitted from Fb last year mine was and asked why and that was the reply I got.


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## loddy

And when you drive on the Eurotunnel there is a big sign saying turn off headlights


Loddy :?


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## steco1958

I always leave my light switch on side lights, have done for years.

I do like the LED strips, however, I would not purchase a set, I do not see the point, when side lights are as good.

Steve


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## gnscloz

steco1958 said:


> I always leave my light switch on side lights, have done for years.
> 
> I do like the LED strips, however, I would not purchase a set, I do not see the point, when side lights are as good.
> 
> Steve


Hate to be contrary but your wrong in daylight sidelights are
Better than nothing but drl's are significantly lighter
And he'll of a lot more noticeable when I installed before connecting the wire that turn them off when you turn lights on I compared the two 
The sidelights you had to look for the drl's were unmissable, the ammount of people that comment when I pull on a site proves the point 
Mark


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## steco1958

gnscloz said:


> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always leave my light switch on side lights, have done for years.
> 
> I do like the LED strips, however, I would not purchase a set, I do not see the point, when side lights are as good.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to be contrary but your wrong in daylight sidelights are
> Better than nothing but drl's are significantly lighter
> And he'll of a lot more noticeable when I installed before connecting the wire that turn them off when you turn lights on I compared the two
> The sidelights you had to look for the drl's were unmissable, the ammount of people that comment when I pull on a site proves the point
> Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, A lot more noticeable ? I'm sorry the fact I am driving a 7.5m in length and a 3m in height motor home should make me noticeable !!


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## GerryD

Addie said:


> Did you paint your surrounds Gerry?


Addie,
No, didn't paint the surrounds. I know that it is possible, but they are a flexible material and are therefore likely to chip unless professionally done. A chipped paint finish looks worse that none.
Also, the thin black rim looks quite good against the uniform white of the MH.
Gerry


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## GerryD

steco1958 said:


> gnscloz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always leave my light switch on side lights, have done for years.
> 
> I do like the LED strips, however, I would not purchase a set, I do not see the point, when side lights are as good.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to be contrary but your wrong in daylight sidelights are
> Better than nothing but drl's are significantly lighter
> And he'll of a lot more noticeable when I installed before connecting the wire that turn them off when you turn lights on I compared the two
> The sidelights you had to look for the drl's were unmissable, the ammount of people that comment when I pull on a site proves the point
> Mark
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mark, A lot more noticeable ? I'm sorry the fact I am driving a 7.5m in length and a 3m in height motor home should make me noticeable !!
Click to expand...

Anything that helps to make the vehicle more noticeable can only be a good thing.
Gerry


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## gnscloz

steco1958 said:


> gnscloz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always leave my light switch on side lights, have done for years.
> 
> I do like the LED strips, however, I would not purchase a set, I do not see the point, when side lights are as good.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to be contrary but your wrong in daylight sidelights are
> Better than nothing but drl's are significantly lighter
> And he'll of a lot more noticeable when I installed before connecting the wire that turn them off when you turn lights on I compared the two
> The sidelights you had to look for the drl's were unmissable, the ammount of people that comment when I pull on a site proves the point
> Mark
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mark, A lot more noticeable ? I'm sorry the fact I am driving a 7.5m in length and a 3m in height motor home should make me noticeable !!
Click to expand...

I think we could all be luminous and some idiots would miss us, 
Get cut up a lot more in van, think they think we cant go above 20 mph


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## sennen523

Hi GerryD,

I've thought about fitting these from Ledcom. Is the wiring connection easy to do? 

Regards,
Al.


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## urbanracer

My van is a EURO5 Peugeot collected from dealer in March build Dec 2011.
Before I bought the van I obtained the Ledcom set.
From an earlier post it was said you can select daydriving lights from vans computer got me investigating.
My van does not have the daydriving lights but looking under bonnet on N/S and O/S has sockets and plugs not connected these come out of the lighting part of the loom.
So it looks like the wiring is there you just need the correct lights but do you need dealer to add this function like a lot of options with canbus systems.
I could just fit the Ledcom lights it looks simple but now think it might be better to find out if the OE light just plug in?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

quote GerryD: Anything that helps to make the vehicle more noticeable can only be a good thing. 
Gerry 


Big. White, headlights on. High vis vest next. :roll: 

Dave p


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## GerryD

sennen523 said:


> Hi GerryD,
> 
> I've thought about fitting these from Ledcom. Is the wiring connection easy to do?
> 
> Regards,
> Al.


Al,
The whole thing took me 2 hours. This includes wiring and dropping the underpin on the offside. And making the hole. I am sure the rectangular units that fit under the headlights will take a lot longer.
The fitting instructions recommend taking out the nearside headlight to get to the dipped beam wire, but you can reach it without removing the headlight.
Gerry


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## Zebedee

steco1958 said:


> I'm sorry the fact I am driving a 7.5m in length and a 3m in height motor home should make me noticeable !!


Not so in some circumstances - notably fog or driving rain. Size makes no difference at all then. :roll:

As for sidelights - observe carefully next time you are out in foggy or heavy rain conditions. If an approaching vehicle is using only its sidelights (_however big it is_ :roll: ) you will almost invariably be able to see the vehicle before you can tell whether or not it has its sidelights on. Therefore the sidelights are utterly useless.

DRLs have to be an excellent idea, and will certainly save lives.

The dim-dip headlamps of some years ago also seemed to be a good idea. Why were they discontinued - does anyone know?

Dave


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

DRL's were going to be made compulsory across the EU but, whilst there remains the legal requirement for them to be fitted to new vehicles, the proposal to require DRL's, or dipped headlights at all times, has been quietly dropped following opposition from some member states, including the UK.

I believe that the UK government argued that we had spent a huge amount of time and effort persuading the Motorcycle industry to fit them, so that Bikes could be seen and persuading all road users to "Think Bike", all that would be wasted if everyone had lights on. Now can you see the bike???

Of course, some bikers use main beam to increase their chances of being seen and so that when the car driver is pulled from the wreckage and asked "What was the last thing that you saw before you hit the tree?" He can reply, "Nothing, just a very bright light dazzling me!"

LED DRL's have a negligible effect on the battery, whilst the dipped headlights on our Volvo have a noticeable effect!


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## nicholsong

Sorry to be so 'Dim', or maybe I am the first to admit ignorance in public, but could somebody please explain what these DRLs are and what they do that dipped headlights do not do? 

Here in Poland dipped headlights are compulsory at all times. 

Re M/Cyclists using full-beam, I find that dazzling and unacceptable. Is it also illegal? 

I can understand why a motorcyclist might want to be very visible, e.g. weaving in and out of traffic on the elevated section of the M4 in Chiswick, but he/she should not be doing that anyway - the safest option would be to desist, rather than try to make a dangerous manoeuvre 'safe'.

Geoff


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi Geof, most two wheel riders, cycle or motorcycle will tell you of the number of other vehicle drivers that pull out in front of them, particularly at T junctions. The idea of having headlights turned on was to give other road users a better chance of seeing them.(us).
Sadly it does not seem to work with some people, their brains are tuned in to looking for larger vehicles, cars, buses and lorries.
As a defence mechanism some motorcyclists will drive with full beam on during daylight hours when the glare of the lights are lessened.

Now with vehicles running with DRL`s which are ultra bright leds and appear to be brighter than headlights the poor old motorcyclist is "lost" from view.
Wearing high vis clothing makes very little difference. If a driver cant see a headlight on, the high vis is a waste of time.
With a mix of some vehicles with and without DRL`s pedestrians will have to take greater care in crossing roads. They will automatically look down the road for lights not vehicles. The power of thought and common sense is being eroded.

Sorry to go a bit off topic but just answering your question.

As you can see in the pic, this is how sports bike riders look on a bike. Hivis only usefull from behind

dave p


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## SaddleTramp

nicholsong said:


> Sorry to be so 'Dim', or maybe I am the first to admit ignorance in public, but could somebody please explain what these DRLs are and what they do that dipped headlights do not do?
> 
> Here in Poland dipped headlights are compulsory at all times.
> 
> Re M/Cyclists using full-beam, I find that dazzling and unacceptable. Is it also illegal?
> 
> I can understand why a motorcyclist might want to be very visible, e.g. weaving in and out of traffic on the elevated section of the M4 in Chiswick, but he/she should not be doing that anyway - the safest option would be to desist, rather than try to make a dangerous manoeuvre 'safe'.
> 
> Geoff


To put it simply in my opinion "proper" DRL's are MORE visible than Headlights or sidelights, they are very bright LED units that don't dazzle but as I said are extremely visible.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

They are Les and I am getting some ultrabright side light replacement bulbs for my bike.

Dave p


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

DRL's = Daylight Running Lights = dipped headlights or LED's. Rover's dim-dip headlights were considered to be too dim by many in the trade.

The point about LED's is that they use less power = better mpg...........they also look 'quite cool' in the minds of many, especially Audi methinks.

Are LED's too bright? Possibly but they should dimmer, or extinguish at night. Personally I think that some are still too bright and much too distracting at night.

The LED's on my 2008 Ducato were fitted, at my request, when I bought it last July. They go out when the headlights go on.


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## SaddleTramp

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> DRL's = Daylight Running Lights = dipped headlights or LED's. Rover's dim-dip headlights were considered to be too dim by many in the trade.
> 
> The point about LED's is that they use less power = better mpg...........they also look 'quite cool' in the minds of many, especially Audi methinks.
> 
> Are LED's too bright? Possibly but they should dimmer, or extinguish at night. Personally I think that some are still too bright and much too distracting at night.
> 
> The LED's on my 2008 Ducato were fitted, at my request, when I bought it last July. They go out when the headlights go on.


That is exactly what a "Proper Legal DRL" should do, either go out or Dim when other lights are on.

That is the law.


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## nicholsong

Dave P

My objection was to FULL-beam not dipped headlights - they dazzle/distract drivers via the rear-view mirrors.

So far,I have not had answers to :-

1 What are these DLR? - although I have picked up on some info.

2 Are full-beam headlights legal when used behind another vehicle, whether in daylight or not?

Now supplementary Qs:-

1 Since it appears from posts that these DRLs will be compulsory for some new vehicles from some specified date, what is the law for retrofit?

2 Is it an EU Directive? If so what number?

3 Has it been converted into Member State Legislation and in which countries, effective from what dates?

4 Do DRLs have to be turned on?

5 Do dipped-headlights conform with any legislation requiring lights or will DRL be mandatory?

We, as "Citizens of the 'Republic of Europe'" have the right to know - without reading all 1,167 pages of EU Directive 2012/**** as amended by the Treaty of Unter Blausinger, (but not acceded by the required majority to bring it into effect.)

However, I read in the 'Brussels Gazzetoria' an announcement to the following

"Despite the refusal of certain 'Errant' Members to conform to the 'Spirit' of the legislation, as proposed by the EU Commission (unelected) to the EU Parliament (Elected but powerless), the Commission proposes that this Directive (for Daylight Running Lights) be implemented in hours of darkness only, to avoid any obscurity or obfuscation.

[Translations of this Brussels gobbledegook available on gookdegobble.eu]"

Can't wait to get my hands on a copy of the Latvian translation! - could take many hours to piece the shreddings together!

Geoff


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## Zebedee

Ask Mr Google. I expect he knows. :wink: 

Dave


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## SaddleTramp

<<1 What are these DLR? - although I have picked up on some info. >>

I have answered this question above, A Daylight running light is an LED lamp which comes on AUTOMATICALLY when the ignition is switched on and either Dims or goes out when vehicle lights are Lit i.e. switched on

<<2 Are full-beam headlights legal when used behind another vehicle, whether in daylight or not? >>

As far as I am aware there is no stipulation on this it is just courtesy

Now supplementary Qs:-

<<1 Since it appears from posts that these DRLs will be compulsory for some new vehicles from some specified date, what is the law for retrofit? >>

There is NO law re retrofit stating that they must be fitted, BUT if fitted they must comply with the law

<<2 Is it an EU Directive? If so what number? >>

No, It is UK law.

<<3 Has it been converted into Member State Legislation and in which countries, effective from what dates? >>

As Above

<<4 Do DRLs have to be turned on?>>

As Above, They have to come on AUTOMATICALLY when ignition is switched on.

<<5 Do dipped-headlights conform with any legislation requiring lights or will DRL be mandatory?

Dipped headlights DO NOT conform to the Daylight running light laws.


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

Just a few corrections!!


SaddleTramp said:


> <<1 What are these DLR? - although I have picked up on some info. >>
> 
> I have answered this question above, A Daylight running light is an LED lamp which comes on AUTOMATICALLY when the ignition is switched on and either Dims or goes out when vehicle lights are Lit i.e. switched on No, they can be LEDs or Headlights!
> 
> <<2 Are full-beam headlights legal when used behind another vehicle, whether in daylight or not? >>
> 
> As far as I am aware there is no stipulation on this it is just courtesy No, this is illegal. See Highway Code Rule 114 which encapsulates Law RVLR reg 27!
> 
> Now supplementary Qs:-
> 
> <<1 Since it appears from posts that these DRLs will be compulsory for some new vehicles from some specified date, what is the law for retrofit? >>
> 
> There is NO law re retrofit stating that they must be fitted, BUT if fitted they must comply with the law
> 
> <<2 Is it an EU Directive? If so what number? >>
> 
> No, It is UK law, which is the result of an EU Directive!.
> 
> <<3 Has it been converted into Member State Legislation and in which countries, effective from what dates? >>
> 
> As Above
> 
> <<4 Do DRLs have to be turned on?>>
> 
> As Above, They have to come on AUTOMATICALLY when ignition is switched on.
> 
> <<5 Do dipped-headlights conform with any legislation requiring lights or will DRL be mandatory?
> 
> Dipped headlights DID conform to the Daylight running light laws but many of these have now been abandoned.


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## SaddleTramp

To stop any ambiguity or correcting or arguing which I am sure will disappoint some members

<<<<< HERE >>>>> Is the Full and accurate references and descriptions

I draw attention to THIS sentence :-
Functional piggybacking, such as operating the headlamps or front turn signals or fog lamps as DRLs, is not permitted.[15]


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

Some crossed wires (and cross members!) here, I think :wink: 

DLR's fitted to new vehicles since 7/2/11 should be dedicated systems. For existing vehicles to comply with various member states regulations, as they were and in some cases still are applied, dipped headlights are acceptable.

"Dipped headlights DID conform to the Daylight running light laws but many of these have now been abandoned." I should have made it clear that I was referring to usage, not the fitting to new vehicles.  

Unfortunately one has to be very careful when using Wikipedia as it is only as good as the information supplied by, in many cases, enthusiastic amateurs. In the case of Les' reference it 'appears' to be correct, but unfortunately some of it's references are either not open source or, not working links.

I declare a draw


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## camallison

GerryD said:


> Bought a Daylight Running Light kit from Ledcom at Newbury. Fitted them in 2 hours last night. Easy to fit and look great. Price £69.99, Genuine Hella are £249 plus VAT.
> They work by sensing the alternator charge voltage and dim when headlights are switched on. Wiring is completely separate from Canbus.
> 
> Ledcom
> 
> Gerry


Today, I fitted a set of Ledcom DRLs to our van, based on a 2007 Renault Master chassis. Since the van wasn't listed on their site, we took a risk and fitted a set meant for a post-2006 (X250) Ducato. They are the 4W LED round lights and fitting them was simple. I drilled holes for each with a 79mm holesaw, the +ve and ground cables went to already prepared points in the engine bay. Then all that need doing was to find the feed to the nearside dipped beam in its cableform - in this case PINK in colour - for the headlamp sense wire. It all works well, the lights coming on with the engine start, dimming when dipped beam is selected, and going out about a minute after the engine is switched off.

This picture shows the finished job, DRLs on.


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## SaddleTramp

MikeCo said:


> Why not just turn the headlights on like my Volvo does.
> 
> Mike


The new laws state that Headlamps are not acceptable as DLR's.
European Union

European Union Directive 2008/89/EC requires all passenger cars and small delivery vans first type approved on or after 7 February 2011 in the EU to come equipped with daytime running lights.[12] The mandate will extend to trucks and buses in August 2012.[13] The EU Directive requires that the DRL function must be produced by functionally specific lamps meeting the requirements of ECE Regulation 87 and mounted to the vehicle in accord with ECE Regulation 48.[14] Functional piggybacking, such as operating the headlamps or front turn signals or fog lamps as DRLs, is not permitted.[15]
[edit]


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## rapidom

Hi Les,
Just noticed a 2013 Rapido with DRL's fitted but wondered if you would comment please on what is the situation with the foglamp function, do the round type DRL units replace the original Hella foglamp in the low down position, or do the factory fit items now include the DRL with the foglamp in the same position. If retrofitting, I would not want to lose the front foglamp function, but can see the benefits of DRL's. Not sure whether the Ring or Hella types incorporate a fog lamp but it does not look like they do. On your Rapido MH are they combined or separate units?
Might be easy to slip in these round or oblong DRL's where no foglamp was originally fitted, but what about when they are?
Thank you,
Peter.


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## 100127

SaddleTramp said:


> MikeCo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just turn the headlights on like my Volvo does.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> The new laws state that Headlamps are not acceptable as DLR's.
> European Union
> 
> European Union Directive 2008/89/EC requires all passenger cars and small delivery vans first type approved on or after 7 February 2011 in the EU to come equipped with daytime running lights.[12] The mandate will extend to trucks and buses in August 2012.[13] The EU Directive requires that the DRL function must be produced by functionally specific lamps meeting the requirements of ECE Regulation 87 and mounted to the vehicle in accord with ECE Regulation 48.[14] Functional piggybacking, such as operating the headlamps or front turn signals or fog lamps as DRLs, is not permitted.[15]
> [edit]
Click to expand...

Just purchased a new 2012 Mitsubishi ASX4, and that does not have DRL's on it. I had the Ledcom DLR's fitted to the MH but I doubt I will fit them to the car.


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## SaddleTramp

rapidom said:


> Hi Les,
> Just noticed a 2013 Rapido with DRL's fitted but wondered if you would comment please on what is the situation with the foglamp function, do the round type DRL units replace the original Hella foglamp in the low down position, or do the factory fit items now include the DRL with the foglamp in the same position. If retrofitting, I would not want to lose the front foglamp function, but can see the benefits of DRL's. Not sure whether the Ring or Hella types incorporate a fog lamp but it does not look like they do. On your Rapido MH are they combined or separate units?
> Might be easy to slip in these round or oblong DRL's where no foglamp was originally fitted, but what about when they are?
> Thank you,
> Peter.


Hi Peter, Mine only has the round DRL's fitted so I think they fit them in the same place as the Foglamps, To be honest I prefer the DRL's as I cannot remember ever needing the Foglamps which have been fitted to all my other MH's, The only comment I would make against the ones fitted to the latest Rapido's (Mine at Least) is they are just ordinary bulbs and not LED's which I think are brighter so I am looking for an LED replacement.


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## SaddleTramp

Blobsta said:


> Just purchased a new 2012 Mitsubishi ASX4, and that does not have DRL's on it. I had the Ledcom DLR's fitted to the MH but I doubt I will fit them to the car.


The new BMW Mini has not got them fitted as standard either and a Local BMW dealer has just been prosecuted for supplying them without DRL's, the police stopped a Mini Driver and when he was issued a ticket he informed them that he had only just purchased it they immediately went to the supplier and issued them with some sort of document that gave them 7 days to supply and fit the DRL's, The driver got off in court but the company were fined.

Your Vehicle is either one that was manufactured before 2011 or they are breaking the law.

You are breaking the law in either situation.


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## cabby

I like the idea of those, however my local dealer has worried about fitting them in case it affects the 'canbus'and will not accept resposibility should that happen.

cabby


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## SaddleTramp

cabby said:


> I like the idea of those, however my local dealer has worried about fitting them in case it affects the 'canbus'and will not accept resposibility should that happen.
> 
> cabby


It states on the the "Box" that they have no effect on canbus systems, I fitted mine on my car which is canbus and no problem whatsoever mate.

Been fitted now since last March.

They are a very small power drain


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## rayc

SaddleTramp said:


> The new BMW Mini has not got them fitted as standard either and a Local BMW dealer has just been prosecuted for supplying them without DRL's, the police stopped a Mini Driver and when he was issued a ticket he informed them that he had only just purchased it they immediately went to the supplier and issued them with some sort of document that gave them 7 days to supply and fit the DRL's, The driver got off in court but the company were fined.


If the Police and CPS took the motorist to court in this instance it shows how vindictive they can be.

Edited to remove reference to UK viz French Police etc...


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## Gary1944

A question for all you knowledgeable people out there. I have considered fitting DLR's to my 59 Ducato. The main reason is to use in Europe as I believe many countries now require headlamps to be operational at all times when driving. Will DLR's replace them? Will I legally be able to run with no rear lamps as I think the DLR's do not operate them? Will the DLR's operate with just the sidelights working.

Another thing occurs to me, would DLR's suffice when passing through a tunnel when the local laws require headlamps? And one final thought. I remember seeing a police TV programme where a driver was prosecuted for using fog lamps in normal road conditions, not foggy or raining. Could the round type DLR's be confused with fog lamps as they are fitted where they would normally go?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Gary.


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## SaddleTramp

rayc said:


> If the Police and CPS took the motorist to court in this instance it shows how vindictive they can be. There are posts on this forum of how zealous the French police are but I will take my chances with them over UK ones any day if indeed the report above is correct.


Well Ray, To be honest I have no interest in whether you take a risk with either French or UK Police as it is no snot off my nose, and it isn't correct, I was lying AGAIN.

I have a Peugeot, Not a MINI, Mine has DRL's, WHY for gods sake would I make something up that has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.

and WHY for gods sake do the vast majority of people on THIS forum need to to insinuate that others are LIARS.

Roll on March when my membership expires


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## rayc

SaddleTramp said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Police and CPS took the motorist to court in this instance it shows how vindictive they can be. There are posts on this forum of how zealous the French police are but I will take my chances with them over UK ones any day if indeed the report above is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Ray, To be honest I have no interest in whether you take a risk with either French or UK Police as it is no snot off my nose, and it isn't correct, I was lying AGAIN.
> 
> I have a Peugeot, Not a MINI, Mine has DRL's, WHY for gods sake would I make something up that has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.
> 
> and WHY for gods sake do the vast majority of people on THIS forum need to to insinuate that others are LIARS.
> 
> Roll on March when my membership expires
Click to expand...

Sorry if I upset you, I never said or meant you are a liar. I will edit my post if I am allowed to say that " If the Police and CPS took the motorist to court in this instance it shows how vindictive they can be."


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## rogerblack

SaddleTramp said:


> . . . Your Vehicle is either one that was manufactured before 2011 or they are breaking the law. . . .


Sorry to be picky (and not accusing you of lying :wink: ) but one of your earlier posts mentioned that the requirement under the Directive was for vehicle models first type approved on or after 7 February 2011. Presumably therefore for models first type approved before this but still being manufactured even now, there is no legal requirement for these to be fitted?


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## SaddleTramp

rogerblack said:


> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . Your Vehicle is either one that was manufactured before 2011 or they are breaking the law. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be picky (and not accusing you of lying :wink: ) but one of your earlier posts mentioned that the requirement under the Directive was for vehicle models first type approved on or after 7 February 2011. Presumably therefore for models first type approved before this but still being manufactured even now, there is no legal requirement for these to be fitted?
Click to expand...

It is the law for ALL vehicles (Not HGV) Supplied/purchased from February 7th 2011, BUT I am assuming that some of the vehicles manufactured Before that date may not meet such requirements, That is all, But again that doesnt detract from the FACT that ALL Motor cars supplied as new from that date ie February 7th 2011 MUST have DRL's to comply with the Law regardless of when manufactured. END OF


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## 100127

Oh poo, I must be in deep S**T, as my car registered August 2012 does not have them.

Hey ho, lock me up Scotty


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## airstream

*As I see it*

Hi,
As I see it - you read the "official" paper as below

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/daytime-running-lights.pdf

Then if you want the benefits buy and fit a retro set - if buying a new car - if fitted great, if not get the dealer to fit some as part of the deal

Ray


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## GerryD

SaddleTramp said:


> rogerblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . Your Vehicle is either one that was manufactured before 2011 or they are breaking the law. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be picky (and not accusing you of lying :wink: ) but one of your earlier posts mentioned that the requirement under the Directive was for vehicle models first type approved on or after 7 February 2011. Presumably therefore for models first type approved before this but still being manufactured even now, there is no legal requirement for these to be fitted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is the law for ALL vehicles (Not HGV) Supplied/purchased from February 7th 2011, BUT I am assuming that some of the vehicles manufactured Before that date may not meet such requirements, That is all, But again that doesnt detract from the FACT that ALL Motor cars supplied as new from that date ie February 7th 2011 MUST have DRL's to comply with the Law regardless of when manufactured. END OF
Click to expand...

The ruling for DRLs applies to vehicles that have required submission for type approval after the due dates. It is therefore possible that a vehicle may not have them fitted if it has not changed since before the date. An example of this is the Citroen C3 Picasso, which does not list DRLs as an option.
Gerry


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## airstream

*For those*

Hi for those who cant/wont use a link I quote from the official doc

"Legislation and requirements:
Vehicle manufacturers must fit DRL to new types of passenger car and light goods vehicle (car derived vans) type approved to European vehicle requirements from February 20111. In practice this means that any new model launched after this date, and many launched before, will be fitted with DRL.
However, existing models on sale before this date without DRL fitted can
continue to be sold and used indefinitely.

What more can be argued over?

Ray


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## trevd01

Blobsta said:


> Oh poo, I must be in deep S**T, as my car registered August 2012 does not have them.
> 
> Hey ho, lock me up Scotty


Only vehicles first type approved on or after 7 February 2011 have to have them. Lots of cars _registered_ after that date don't have them. For example, Landrover Freelanders up until the '2013 model year' just announced didn't have them. My 2011 doesn't.


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## Gary1944

Gary1944 said:


> A question for all you knowledgeable people out there. I have considered fitting DLR's to my 59 Ducato. The main reason is to use in Europe as I believe many countries now require headlamps to be operational at all times when driving. Will DLR's replace them? Will I legally be able to run with no rear lamps as I think the DLR's do not operate them? Will the DLR's operate with just the sidelights working.
> 
> Another thing occurs to me, would DLR's suffice when passing through a tunnel when the local laws require headlamps? And one final thought. I remember seeing a police TV programme where a driver was prosecuted for using fog lamps in normal road conditions, not foggy or raining. Could the round type DLR's be confused with fog lamps as they are fitted where they would normally go?
> 
> Your thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> Gary.


Same thoughts, any advice welcomed, Gary


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## Pugwash

*Type Approval*

I have a new Bessacarr. The Fiat cab was built by Fiat on May 3rd 2012. (Five months ago). The completed motorhome came out of the factory in Yorkshire late in August 2012. (Six weeks ago).

It does not have DRLs. Why not?

Because the Fiat had Type Approval before Feb 11th 2011 so they are not a requirement.

Some Fiat Ducatos have the facility to use their dimmed main beam headlights as DRLs. This is only legal because the current model Ducato had Type Approval before Feb 11th 2011. Auto-Trail seem to be ordering Ducatos with this facility. Swift/Bessacarr do not. I don't know about other manufacturers.

Regards,
Pugwash.


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## 113016

Our Hymer Exsis released from the factory in November 2011 with a 2012 build plate has daytime running lights.
I would expect that the type approval was acquired prior to the day time running light requirement date as the Exsis has been out for a few years.
I understand that Hymer have been fitting daytime running lights earlier than the requirement date on many if not all models.
Not all good, as there are reports that on some vans they may have been getting hot and damaging the glass. A few of us have replaced the normal 21 watt bulbs with smaller wattage. Probably not strictly legal for day time running light regulations.
I have, and am still considering, removing the bulbs altogether or fitting a switch so that I can have them on as and when required.
I forgot to say, ours is on a Transit chassis.


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