# Advice on first purchase (Hymer?)



## 99447 (May 28, 2006)

i Everyone,

We are hoping to make our first camper purchase sometime this summer. So far we have identified these requirements:

4 berth (2 adults/2 children) camper
Kitchen - basic 2 ring stove + 3 way fridge is ok. Oven nice to have.
Bathroom - basic shower and toilet
Hot water + heating. A/C would would be nice but unlikely in our budget.
Manual gear box box
25mpg minimum
No preference for diesel or petrol.
Reasonable size - less than 6m long, 2.5m high, 3.5 ton max.

We have a (very) modest budget of about £5000 (7000Euro). In our favour we live in Switzerland, my wife speaks fluent German, and I'm fairly handy with old vehicles - so our intention was to look for a private sale in Germany. Scanning eBay etc shows that this price is not totally unfeasible - though we are obviously looking at something quite old (80s) and well used.

We'd prefer an integrated (if old) style. Not so keen on high overcab design - I assume these are less efficient + will make finding a winter home inside for it difficult. I'd rather have length than height within reason.

VW/Westfalia's and similar are too small. We are thinking of an old Mercedes based Hymer as there seem to be a good range of these about - likely a 550 or 560 or similar. There seem to be enless varieties and numbers to these - so we'd appreciate anyone's thoughts/experience with older Hymers - what was good/bad, classic problems to look for etc.

One area we can't compromise on is rear seat safety. We need at least two forward facing seats in back with 3 point belts so child seats can be attached. For the age we are looking at rear belts would not be fitted as standard - and many layouts do not even have two forward facing seats.

There seem to be three main seating options on old Hymers - many shown here http://www.dmiuk.com/sale_hylay.php

i) Dinette - two forward/two rear facing seats
ii) L shape - one forward/3 across van facing seats
iii) Rear U seating - 1 forward/4 across.

Of these only the first (mid van dinette) looks suitable - but we would likely need to get belts fitted. Has anyone any advice/view on this? Have you ever fitted (or had fitted) post-factory belts and if so how/who was it done by? I've looked through the posts on seatbelts which are useful - but wondered if anyone had any specific Hymer comments to make?

Any thoughts on above would be very useful.
Thanks in advance.

Richard

Duplicate post deleted 23.50 28/5/06
An99uk


----------



## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Try
www.caravanfinder.co.uk 
This maygive you an idea and go from there


----------



## hannah29 (Feb 13, 2006)

hi
how envious am i that you live in switzerland!!! we bought our first hymer from dmi a few years back and drove through switzerland as we always do on route to italy skiing....it was a 1988 hymer 660s on a mercedes....which in its day was a luxury model as it had extras such as a generator and air con etc. it had 2 long bench seats at the front and rear bunks along with a seperate toilet and shower. the only problems we had with it were basic wear and tear that you would expect from any vehicle of that age.....it wasn't quite as well insulated as they are nowadays either and after sleeping our first night in the van in italy our water had frozen, however it did drop to minus 22 overnight and once the sun got going it didn't take long to thaw out. i do know that dirk and ines at dmi import alot of hymers themselves and they do know their stuff and are very helpful if you are after a particular model......because we regularly drive to italy they were happy for us to collect the model we wanted from them anywhere on route from germany as it turned out the one we wanted was already in the uk.
ours had already got the rear seatbelts fitted in, however because they were side facing seats they were only lap belts and were just bolted under the seats.
good luck in your search
hannah


----------



## hettiehymer (Mar 17, 2006)

Hello Richard

we found our "Hettie" in Germany on www.mobile.de

ours is a 2001 b510 so very different budget but from what I have seen your budget / requirements are more than feasible

as for layouts, we are usually just the 2 of us but after having had 2 teenagers with us for a short trip you might want to think about the workability of the layout when kids are asleep and adults awake, if you want to enjoy a glass of wine in the evening after the small ones are in bed, or indeed be able to have breakfast in the morning when teenagers are still sleeping.......then a u shape lounge is the only layout under 6m which gives you 2 separate sleeping areas allowing access to bathroom and kitchen without disturbing the others. However the 544 layout seems the best for safety while travelling .........the u shape rear lounge on old hymers uses a table that lowers "ironing board style" to meet the height of the lounge benches to make a very large double bed which gives you 2 really good doubles, the thing that put me off this was the weight and bulk of this table that made putting it up and down hard work and putting it away or using it outside impossible ( it doesn't fold flat ). The advantage of our 510 bar version layout is that the front seats are not "cut off" from the rest of the van by kitchen / dinette etc so you really get the benefit of the very comfortable swivel seats and a large and spacious "lounge" the disadvantage is that although the fixed table is superb at mealtimes with lots of space and no need to squeeze between seats and table, you can't fold it away which means it is really in the way if you are using the sofa bed opposite.

The more layouts you see the more confused you get ! 
good luck and happy travels 
Kathy


----------



## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi Richard,

if you intend to buy in Germany - and your wife is fluent in German anyway - then look atwww.mobile.de.

You will probably find something in your desired price range, however - as you have already seen - quite old. Most of your requirements can probably be fulfilled except those: 
- Oven is most probably not possible
- 25 mpg will be impossible with petrol and at least a challenge with diesel
- Height of up to 2.5 metres will also be critical, better look for up to 3 m
- Rear seat safety (see below).

True, the overcab does reduce fuel efficiency, but not by much. And for winter usage it is even better, because you can shut off the badly insulated cab completely. So if you intend to use the MH also in winter, then you should seriously think about an overcab model. In addition the overcab design makes best possible use of available space.

*But:* Rear seat safety is a really big issue with such old vans. They usually do not come with rear seat belts ex factory, and refits that achieve the same level as serial rear belts are practically impossible. Problem is that the flimsy wood and "cardboard" materials used in the rear are by far not sturdy enough to support any seat belts. Any rear seat belt solution that is worth mentioning therefore involves a massive steel framework behind the seats that is bolted directly to the chassis. So, I am afraid a compromise here is inevitable in your price range.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


----------



## 99447 (May 28, 2006)

Hi,

Just wanted to thank you all for these replies - has been ages since I've had a chance to check back here. We are still looking - is probably going to be a Hymer 660 or something else on a Fiat overcab design - a rear bed for tucking the children away looks like a must.

On the seatbelts - yes old vans seem to all suffer this problem. I'm an engineer (of sorts) so took a look into it. Most modern designs seem to use a large steel seat box, with very substantial central post for the top belt point. This looks feasible to construct to the modern EU specs - for a car it needs to take a total load of about 3 tons per belt, across the lap and shoulder areas. Main issue is ensuring the attachment to the van floor is sufficient to make this worthwhile. In many ways it's overkill as the car ratings are about double that for retrofit belts in minibuses where the speeds are lower - and more comparable to a motorhome. I'll update this when/if I get round to building something.

Thanks again.

Richard


----------

