# Bailey VS Hymer!



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

We stopped at a dealers today to buy some "Blue" and decided to look for a new van on the spur of the moment as you do.

We looked at two. A Hymer A Class with a rear fixed bed and a Bailey Approach Autograph 765. Both similar sizes but the Hymer was tiny inside compared to the Bailey or so it felt like as the Bailey had our preferred rear lounge layout.

Now I know nothing much about either marques but (and I hope I dont offend anyone here) The quality and feel of the Bailey was so much better. I was impressed. Hymer was also £63K with the Bailey being £47K.

The Bailey initially looked an ideal replacement for us but a few things put us off. Looked like it had external fresh water tanks and a bonkers electronic drop down bed over the front dinette. I asked if they did it without this option and got a flat no. What I like about it though was its on a lowline Alko Chassis like our Kontiki and had a shorter overhang than most vans like ours and with a decent payload I suspect it would take the rack and scooter.

So what do the panel think of these observations? Whats the general opinion on Bailey stuff? Is there a model without the daft bed and at least an internal fresh tank? Why is the Hymer so much more when it just didnt feel anywhere near as good? 

I wont be buying a new one ever but may be in the market for a nearly new one. Depends if Mrs D will let me spend our rainy day / Retirement fund!


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## Foghorn-Leghorn (Jul 10, 2010)

barryd said:


> We stopped at a dealers today to buy some "Blue" and decided to look for a new van on the spur of the moment as you do.
> 
> We looked at two. A Hymer A Class with a rear fixed bed and a Bailey Approach Autograph 765. Both similar sizes but the Hymer was tiny inside compared to the Bailey or so it felt like as the Bailey had our preferred rear lounge layout.
> 
> ...


the fresh water tank is insulated and has a heating element that kicks in at -2c , I have been away in -9c in the North of Scotland and the freshwater didn't freeze


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Foghorn-Leghorn said:


> the fresh water tank is insulated and has a heating element that kicks in at -2c , I have been away in -9c in the North of Scotland and the freshwater didn't freeze


Cool. How easy would it be to take out the drop down bed? Presumably impossible as the cupboards and everything come down with it. Mrs D just didnt like the idea and as there are only two of us its a waste of weight to be honest. Blooming lovely van though.


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## Foghorn-Leghorn (Jul 10, 2010)

barryd said:


> Cool. How easy would it be to take out the drop down bed? Presumably impossible as the cupboards and everything come down with it. Mrs D just didnt like the idea and as there are only two of us its a waste of weight to be honest. Blooming lovely van though.


TBH Barry I couldn't say but the bed is part of the overhead Lockers I think .
You could of course just never use it and leave it permanently up .


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

We looked at some Bailey`s at the Peterborough show last week.We preferred the rear fixed bed,and they do seem very spacious.There are a few threads on here about build quality.Also there is a problem with the fresh water filling up and some electrics.
I suppose all vans have there niggles,they just need ironing out.


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## Tezmcd (Aug 3, 2009)

I believe the baileys are 2.6 meters wide not 2.3 like most coachbuilts - that does add to the feeling of space 


As for build quality I don't think anyone will be recommending the bailey over a Hymer - despite your impressions


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Barry, as a three time Hymer owner, and a long time wilder, my take is as follows.
I do think Hymer have got a little over priced, Rapido seem to be better value.
For me, the difference between a Hymer and most British vans, is that UK vans might look internally nicer, more frilly and more bells and whistles, but Hymers, and probably other German marques, might not have the frills, bells and whistles, but are certainly more functional, especially for wilding, off grid!
I tend to think that UK vans are designed for camp site hopping.
Although UK vans have external water tanks, some have tank heaters, but this draws from precious battery power (life support) and to be honest, how can it be as good as internal tanks.
Just my take, and I have no direct experience of UK vans.
Oh, and UK vans do seem to have more water ingress problems.
I did have a small issue with my van, I called into the Hymer Service Centre in Bad Waldsee and they immediately said, it was their problem and they would fix! No fudging, no trying to wriggle out!
But, they are too expensive!
As you are a firm wilder, I am sure you will know what is and is a requirement and what is just for show!


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Can't comment on Bailey as I have never had one.
I deliberately bought an older Hymer A class because in my opinion the build quality is better in the older models.After discussing this subject with a reputable motorhome dealer that specialises in 2nd hand Hymers their opinion was that the ''golden years''for Hymer was between 2000-2006.Mine is right in the middle of that period and is built like the proverbial tank.It's quite agricultural compared to the newer models,no shiny worktops or fancy led striplights just a solidly built van which I expect to outlast me and less to go wrong compared to newer models.
Damp is not a problem because of the PUAL construction technique,I have just had a habitation service with no damp detected-not even a reading anywhere in the truck and the mobile engineer said he had never found damp in a Hymer which is testament to the build quality.
After going from an Autotrail coachbuilt to an A class the biggest difference is the all round visibility and driving position,the wing mirrors are superb and give a better view of the road than a coachbuilt.
If you are seriously considering going down this route I would recommend saving most of the £63k and look at a well maintained older model for roughly half of that and still have a rainy day fund.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

All interesting observations. Its only a half serious look (At the moment).

I think I have heard a lot of good reviews of the older Hymers Grath and I would never buy new anyway but the next van will have to last 15 year and maybe more so I wont be wanting anything too old. Front Dinette, rear lounge and enough payload for a scooter is none negotiable though which is the Brit design. I know there are a few hymers and with this design though.

Wish I hadnt looked now as its really got me thinking of a new van but at the same time parting with Hank will be heart breaking. I wont just be selling it but will holding interviews to find a suitable owner.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Download the brochures for Hymer and Baileys. Then you will see why the Hymer is more expensive. If, having read the brochures, you are not convinced the Hymer is the better designed van, then buy a Bailey motorhome because you won't appreciate the qualities of the Hymer.

Baileys are better value for money. 

Grath's succinct comments ring true for me.


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Bailey vs Hymer is like a Ford vs Mercedes

They both do the same job. But one is better built than the other.

But some people still prefer a Ford.


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## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

Hello guys. 

My Son has the new bailey. 

Water pump failed after a day or so. Running board lights have failed and so have the front spots in the hab' area. Small issues but he is spitting tacks. he went to check the fuses in the cab area and found someone had been there already! ALL the fasteners were out and missing. He could not get the fuse box lid off as the trim needs removing 1st...... 

I am sure it has an internal water tank. I checked the pump for him and it is mounted directly on top of the tank. Pump had power to it but not running. Panel said it was running though.. V helpful. I now understand that the panel saying pump is running means there is in fact power to the pump. Hey ho. It now has a new pump fitted courtesy of Whale.. (Not Bailey!!) Back to base warranties apparently. ;-( 

He loves his new van though. His little boy uses the drop down and it suits them perfectly.. Just those little issues to sort. We are meeting up with him in London Abbey wood in a few days. Looks like I will be busy finding his little lecy issues.

Safe driving and good health.

Al' B.....


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I see what you are saying but the doors, fixtures and fittings and pretty much everything in the Hymer just did not feel as good quality as the Bailey. Sorry but that was how it felt to me. Ive been in a few older Hymers and they were superb but £63K for this one seemed well over priced.


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

Which model of Hymer did you look at Barry. 

Perhaps someone with that particular model could help. 

As for me, after having a bessacarr and an elddis previously I would never go back to a British van. The build quality of the Hymer is second to none.


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

Tezmcd said:


> I believe the baileys are 2.6 meters wide not 2.3 like most coachbuilts - that does add to the feeling of space


Not sure where you get that from - I think 2.42 m is more like!


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## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

Taking the Rapido comparison a bit further, how does Rapido measure up to Hymer? Do they use a Pual type build?
:grin2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

Not sure which model the Hymer was. A class 7.4 metres fixed rear bed, tiny front lounge. I know I have put a bit of weight on but I could hardly fit behind the front diner table.

Im not knocking Hymers as I remember at last years Music meet having dinner in Rayrecroks older tag axle and what a superb van it seemed as have some of the others I have been in. This new one just felt cheap. 

Anyway here are the requirements

Non negotiable

Rear Lounge
Front dinette
Alko Chassis or short rear overhang
Big payload or at least enough to take a rack and scooter

Desirables

Internal fresh water tank
Large thetford (not those tiny ones but not a deal breaker)
Gas fire that does not need battery power (like we have now)
Preferably a luton to store dinghy and folding bikes but as long as there is storage somewhere else then fine.

A lot of Brit vans fit the non negotiable list but not many fit the desirable list and vice versa.

As Grath says we do a lot of wilding but I intend to put loads of solar up to compensate for what seems to be a huge rise in power demands on newer vans.

Its going to be a really hard search to get it right huh?

Thanks very much for all the input so far.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

If the Bailey appealed to you, ask the factory direct if they could do a single one off in the line without the front pull down bed. The dealer will say no as it is not on the list.
I had this problem with Peugeot dealers when buying cars, mention something you want not listed and they say not possible, go direct order they run it through when doing that colour batch.

cabby

We prefer the quality of Non UK brands, but found Hymer too expensive, paying for the badge really.


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## klyne (May 10, 2005)

I can only speak as a relatively new motorhome owner, two years, and a satisfied owner of a Bailey motorhome. As you say they represent excellent value. Having looked at other (UK Makes) we could not see any particular value in spending more money. A Continental motorhome with the door on the other side would cause us issues because of where we store it so we did not consider such models.


David


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Barry, don't you think your plans are a little ambitious given that the only 'work' you have done lately is to install some ink cartridges for a little old lady?

Just how much did you charge her?>


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## TheFlups (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi Barry ... I can't speak for the Hymer brand but we do own a Bailey750.
I wish I could tell you that the van has had no issues however, There have been a few minor niggles, most of which have been fixed with basic D I Y skills. Lots of folk have knocked the Bailey brand but to be fair the van has performed well and we have lived in it for up to 3 months at a time down in Spain in the winter and the general layout and feel of the vehicle with it's airiness has been excellent. We mostly camp off site and have adequate solar panels on the roof and masses of storage in the garage.
One Thing is for sure, if you are looking for a good value van that is very usable then the Bailey takes some beating at the money. The drive is superb and if a few basic extras are added you will have no cause to complain.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Looks a nice enough van but a bit too posh for us so must be way out of your league Barry >

We too go looking around the dealers every so often, did lots when planning and during the build to see how they did stuff and for ideas, very few van would have been on the must have list could we have afforded it, so may had broken bits, regardless of the vans cost, the newer Hymens were truly nice to look at but when you examined the gut of how they were put together, you could see how they would fall apart too.

Overall, we liked the Autotrail rear lounge models, and the build quality but not the attitude of the Vantage vans, the rest were mainly also rans, we would have liked to see the new Laikas, but no dealers up here and not been to any shows recently.

So many looked like a cross between a cruise ship and a gin palace, or what I imagine they would look like.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Another one from the GB camp. OK, so we've got a 2008 Kontiki tag but when we were looking around in late 2013, we could have had similar aged German MH's (albeit at more money) but there were a few things that swayed us to the Kontiki, the 669 especially. None of the Euro's could offer all of these in one package:


Lots of kitchen prep area.
Large front lounge
Full sized oven & grill
Microwave
Being able to watch the TV at the front (not by the door)


We put usability and practicality above brand name and build quality but each to their own. Given a budget today of say £80k today, we'd probably still buy a Kontiki (with Alde) in lieu of a European MH purely based on what we want.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks all. 

I wouldn't ever be buying a new van so I cant really contact the manufacturers for a bespoke model. As I said we just went in to get some toilet fluid and got carried away looking at new vans.  Just wanted to get some ideas.

To be honest I would have another Kontiki if one fitted the list of requirements but I cannot ignore what I have learned over the past 7 years that German vans are generally better (or were). There must be some truth in that. I think however when you use a van like we do which over the past 7 years has had it on the road for over 3 solid years of that time where it has been to some of the most extreme parts of Europe which is mainly the Alps and Pyrenees then I dont think our usage is typical and I dont care what anyone says thats not the normal usage most motorhomes get. Stuff is going to fail and need replacing. I doubt therefore that even a Hymer would pass the barry punishment test which makes me also wonder which is the cheapest to fix when stuff wears out?

Our old Kontiki might have gone through several water pumps, a blown up boiler, fire fixed a few times, fridge on gas fixed a few times etc but they have all been cheap as chips fixes (apart from a new rear axle and a damp issue which both broke the bank). When these things fail on a more expensive van is it going to cost a fortune to fix cos they will break?

Running costs, availability of parts etc have to be taken into consideration. I might spend £40K on a newer van but I havent got a massive budget to keep it on the road and it may well be the last van we have. I will probably keep it 15 to 20 years.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

A little more from me, having owned three Hymers
Firstly, I don't think they are the b all and end all, but I do think they are built pretty well, as are other German vans.
Our was a 2000 model and we purchased at three years of age, and kept it for over another three years. Absolutely solid and we had no issues at all.

Our second van was built in 2003 but was new in 2004. We purchased again when it was three and we kept it for 4 years. Wilding pretty well exclusively, and again no issues except for a internal water pump, gas regulator and the Fiat parts, no internal or body parts broke or fell off. However we did notice that the internal wood was a softer wood than the previous van, obviously to get the weight down. If you screwed into the woodwork, you could strip the thread, so care was needed when fixing internal accessories, but again all was well.

Our present van is a 2012 model, built in late 2011 and the internal woodwork is same quality as our 2003/2004 van. The external is the Paul system which is second to none and I understand the chances of a water ingress problem would be minimal.
Incidentally, when we traded our previous vans, both dealers did not feel the need to do a water ingress check. That says a lot!
We have up to now spent over 330 nights in this van, mainly wilding / aires and again no issues. The only problems have been a toilet door lock adjustment, and a garage door damper nut came loose. Rear light cluster retaining screw stuck and a few pin hole paint defects on the front bumper. Both of these external defects were repaired within one week of me informing Hymer in Bad Waldsee!
In conclusion, I think the bodywork structure on the newer vans with the Paul system is better than the older vans and they were pretty good. The internals have been made lighter, as has every other make, so are obviously not as strong as the older vans, but then it depends on how old, as ours is certainly as strong as our 2003/2004 model. But you have to bear in mind, ours is the Exsis which is made to be light, functional and with no frills.

Question. Why do you need a rear lounge AND a front dinette? Usually the front dinette is also the lounge and that is part of the idea of the large A Class panoramic windscreen!
I have been very happy with my Hymers, and the service I received in Germany was brilliant, but I do think that at the moment, some other makes, such as Rapido or Cathargo could offer better value.
If I were buying again, it would most certainly be another continental van.
I have no direct experience of any UK van, but I have read far too many horror stories, however I do think they are getting better, and I am sure some folk will be very happy with theirs!


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

As we're getting into detail of vans ...

My new 2000 Arto from Niesmann & Bischoff had 31 faults on delivery. Hymer UK in Preston didn't seem to have done a PDI. All corrected within a day and the next 5 years were fault free.

My new 2005 Hymer 544 B Class had no faults on delivery and no Hymer faults in the 8 years we owned it.

My new 2013 Hymer 504 B Class had no faults on delivery but quickly developed a rattling driver window [still not quite right after two attempts to correct it including a replacement window], a drop down bed that doesn't lie flat [2 unsuccessful attempts to fix it], lighting plinth over the cooker fell off twice, once damaging the woodwork [dealer failed to fix it but I managed to do], rattle in the passenger door [fixed by dealer], hob refitted [by dealer] but still rattles without a tea towel. When I complained, I was advised the fitter who failed to fix my van "was no longer employed."

After the next three months, table rattles, oven rattles, all external plastic covers to hide services such as fuel and water pipes have broken but still work with velcro fix. Not bothered to get these fixed.

In January, all four alloy wheels replaced under warranty [dealer noticed a problem, not me], and in the last month, a cracked windscreen that has to be replaced [insurance cover is sufficient].

My sister did tell me that buying a 13 plated van was asking for trouble and she was right! I wouldn't recommend a new Hymer but pre-facelifted models were excellent in my experience. My dealer has also got its act together.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think for some dealers of new and used, customer PDI seems to be the way forward, so if you don't spot it they don't have to fix it, clever huh.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Quote Brock
all external plastic covers to hide services such as fuel and water pipes have broken but still work with velcro fix. Not bothered to get these fixed. 


I forgot, we have also had this problem on our present van and used the Velcro fix!
Crap fittings!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks again. Useful stuff cheers.

In answer to your question Grath about why we need a rear lounge and front dinette, we both like to put our feet up on an evening and "lounge" in the back with a TV at the same level, not stuck up on the ceiling. I often use the front dinette to work on while Michelle might be watching TV or reading in the back. We sleep in separate beds (I might invite her in if she is lucky  ) and like the space and room this option gives us. 

I wont get into the fixed bed debate but for us a fixed bed is a waste of space and i have not seen any layout that for us is as comfy as our layout. 

This leaves me with a problem though as few continental vans have this layout. There are some but its limited.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Barry, regarding beds, we have twin longitude, with no wasted space.
Under the rear of the beds is the garage and under the rest are half size wardrobes. Above are cupboards and shelves.
Downside is long dresses need a fold to hang. Doesn't bother me as I tend to roll my stuff:smile2:
We also have the front A Class drop bed, and apart from when our Daughter came with us, this is used for guitar and coat storage
Sometimes, one of us will nip to one of the bunks and have a quiet read or kip, while the other is at the front lounge. Our TV is on a slide opposite the dinette and usually sits eye height or just above, but can be lowered to table height. Much better than neck straining when they are fixed high!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

So I have spent most of the morning (probably wasting my time) looking for both continental vans and British vans that meet our requirements.

Only Hymer I found was a B534 but its probably too small.

Ive been reading reviews and a complete test of the Bailey Approach 760 and it ticks a lot of the boxes. Its basically a modern version of what we have now.

Apparently they are built using Alu Tech, quote "Alu-Tech uses alloy profiles and special fixings to clamp the whole coachbuilt structure together - no wood is used in the bodywork above the floor." They also come with a 10 year hab guarentee I believe. So should be leak proof? Probably not! 

I have some concerns though

Bailey - very new to motorhome market

Hardly any for sale used and the only one worth having is the upgraded 3850kg model as the standard ones payload is pityful. Maybe SVTech can upgrade a standard one I dont know. Of course none of the advertisers state if its 3850 or 3500 which is probably the most important thing you need to know. 

It looks like the upgraded model will have enough payload to take a scooter rack but they look at bit low at the back end to me and guess what? I bet nobody has fitted a rack to one of these so it would be new ground I bet.

Really like them though and the huge luton which most will think is awful is a massive asset for storing folding bikes and dinghies.

Want one (maybe)

Review here http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans....-bailey-approach-se-760-test-october-2011.pdf

One for sale here http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...odel/make/bailey/berth/6?featuredListing=true

Would definitely consider German though if someone can find me a large rear lounge model.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Grath, the new Hymers use magnets inside the revised plastic covers.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

So a search around the £40k mark then Barry?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> So a search around the £40k mark then Barry?


Maybe a bit less if possible. Ill want to modify it, transfer the dome, fix at least one solar panel probably two, maybe a second battery and probably a new scooter rack.

Blimey the house I had before this one cost less than that.

Its all hypothetical at the moment but I think its time to start going through the process.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

barryd said:


> Its all hypothetical at the moment


No it's not and you know it :wink2:.

We're also big fans of luton models for the very reasons you've given.

Just to throw a spanner in the works http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...c57b5c/makemodel/make/auto-trail/model/apache Allegedly 730kg payload, taken from http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/231-bailey-motorhomes/111910-bailey-760-se-weight.html


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I've had dealings with Southdowns and no complaints always tried hard to make sure I ws happy, went OTT to get me parts needed for the Laika.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> No it's not and you know it :wink2:.
> 
> We're also big fans of luton models for the very reasons you've given.
> 
> Just to throw a spanner in the works http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...c57b5c/makemodel/make/auto-trail/model/apache Allegedly 730kg payload, taken from http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/231-bailey-motorhomes/111910-bailey-760-se-weight.html


Yes they fit the bill but last time I looked at this a few people commented on build quality of the Autotrails not being so good.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I like the low profiles, you do lose a bit of storage of course, but they don't move so much in side winds and cut through the bit better on the move.


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

We had a 760 for 2 years (12-14) and it was a great van.

At that stage Bailey had not sorted out the relationship between the van and hab battery so a battery master or something equivalent is required. Power goes from the hab area when the van is being driven so extra 12v sockets in the rear directly off the battery are useful for charging on the move.
The door window is difficult to dry at the very lowest point which can lead to slight mildew. Bailey changed the door in later models.


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

We've had a total of 6 motorhomes over the last 25 years and in our book there is no contest. We've tried British and French 'vans but the Hymers have been by far the best!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Camdoon said:


> We had a 760 for 2 years (12-14) and it was a great van.
> 
> At that stage Bailey had not sorted out the relationship between the van and hab battery so a battery master or something equivalent is required. Power goes from the hab area when the van is being driven so extra 12v sockets in the rear directly off the battery are useful for charging on the move.
> The door window is difficult to dry at the very lowest point which can lead to slight mildew. Bailey changed the door in later models.


One criticism in the review I found was the battery being right at the back and could lead to voltage drops. I also think its a bad choice weight wise as well. Are you saying on some of these vans the engine didn't charge the leisure battery? I think I would want two batteries installed, is this possible do you think on this model?


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

barryd said:


> One criticism in the review I found was the battery being right at the back and could lead to voltage drops. I also think its a bad choice weight wise as well. Are you saying on some of these vans the engine didn't charge the leisure battery? I think I would want two batteries installed, is this possible do you think on this model?


The batteries do not speak to each other but a BatteryMaster from VanBitz resolves that issue. With the help of another poster I installed one as he had done.:wink2:
There was no issue with voltage drops.
I installed a 2nd battery and passed the wiring, box and battery on to another poster on this site when I sold. :wink2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Camdoon said:


> The batteries do not speak to each other but a BatteryMaster from VanBitz resolves that issue. With the help of another poster I installed one as he had done.:wink2:
> There was no issue with voltage drops.
> I installed a 2nd battery and passed the wiring, box and battery on to another poster on this site when I sold. :wink2:


Thanks. Can I just be completely clear on this. Bailey sent vans out with no way of charging the battery, is that correct? If it is what else have they missed. Its a bit off putting.


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

You would charge the hab battery from 240v and the van battery as normal. As caravan manufacturers they did not understand the benefit of having the batteries linked.


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> They also come with a 10 year hab guarentee I believe. So should be leak proof? Probably not!


I don't think it's still 10 years as standard- they cut it to 6 a few years back, and when we bought ours you could buy a further 4 year extension. Unless they subsequently reinstated the 10 years of course.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Camdoon said:


> You would charge the hab battery from 240v and the van battery as normal. As caravan manufacturers they did not understand the benefit of having the batteries linked.


Its simply ridiculous. How could they get something so important wrong?

Maybe Grath was right about Brit vans being designed for campsites. Another question if you dont mind. I guess for the heating as it has no fire you have to have the blown air on all the time its running and thus it uses battery power. correct? And what about the heated water tank, can you switch it on and off? I am a serial wild camper and air user so I need a van thats suitable for this and isnt going to be power hungry.

Wonder why they cut the 10 year warranty as well.


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

They probably cut the 10 year warranty, when they found out you were looking at their products:crying:

and they looked up your blogs about the breakdowns :grin2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Perhaps yes!

I did see something earlier saying the six year warranty was free but you can then apply for a further 4 years for free as well. Eh?

I also saw something that said you had to pay for the 4 years but Ive been on that many sites today I cannot remember where!


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Just to add my bit, bought a new Bailey Autograph 740 last October. We would never have a continental MH as we consider two settees for evening lounging as vital.
The Bailey is a reasonably built vehicle with a long list of standard goodies. Light weight and good load allowances. The general quality is good and certainly better than Swift Group. Warranty is now 6 years where all others have gone to 10 years. Fortunately, the Alutech no longer requires a full retighten at 3 years. The battery issue has been resolved and the tank filling issue can be fixed by drilling a vent hole in the cap.
Biggest issue with Bailey is customer service and warranty. Bailey will not allow any contact directly between them and the end customer. Dealers must only contact via email, and all warranty issues must be addressed to Bailey in the first instance. Bailey are then likely to reject the warranty claim if it is in any part not made by them and will refer the dealer to the supplier, but dealers must not go to the supplier without authority from Bailey.
I have had a small electrical issue that resulted in the van being at the dealer for five weeks purely because Bailey refused to get involved and liaise between the suppliers.
At least with a used model the initial problems have been sorted.
Gerry


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Barry - IIRC, the 760 gets the Truma Combi 4E. I'll let you decide if it's power hungry off grid http://www.truma.com/uk/en/heating/combi-4-e.php


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## bertieburstner (May 1, 2005)

*Bailey V Hymer*

The Bailey does have a 6 year water ingress warranty which can be extended to 10 years for £199 (or it was last year)

After 4 Burstners and a Laika I have gone to the "dark side" and have to admit it is better built than any of our previous motorhomes.:grin2:

One thing I really like is the ALDE central heating which uses radiators instead of blown air. Used either on hook up with mains or gas its almost silent and keeps us nice and warm without the whooshing that the Truma used to do!

Bailey will probably not alter their production for a one off, they won't let you choose the base vehicle either. They say its to keep costs down. The only "factory" options last year were the choice of upholstery.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GerryD said:


> Just to add my bit, bought a new Bailey Autograph 740 last October. We would never have a continental MH as we consider two settees for evening lounging as vital.
> The Bailey is a reasonably built vehicle with a long list of standard goodies. Light weight and good load allowances. The general quality is good and certainly better than Swift Group. Warranty is now 6 years where all others have gone to 10 years. Fortunately, the *Alutech no longer requires a full retighten at 3 years*. The battery issue has been resolved and the tank filling issue can be fixed by drilling a vent hole in the cap.
> Biggest issue with Bailey is customer service and warranty. Bailey will not allow any contact directly between them and the end customer. Dealers must only contact via email, and all warranty issues must be addressed to Bailey in the first instance. Bailey are then likely to reject the warranty claim if it is in any part not made by them and will refer the dealer to the supplier, but dealers must not go to the supplier without authority from Bailey.
> I have had a small electrical issue that resulted in the van being at the dealer for five weeks purely because Bailey refused to get involved and liaise between the suppliers.
> ...


Thanks for this Gerry. I will probably be buying a used one (if I get one) so when you say "Alutech no longer requires a full retighten at 3 years" what exactly does this mean and if I purchase a used one is it likely to need this doing?

I am also confused now about the heating from the above posts. Is it Alde or Truma? The Truma link posted by Deefordog states 0.2 to 5.2 amps used but average 1.1 Presumably it uses more on start up. 1.1 I could live with. Depths of winter we would be on hookup most of the time anyway and 2 decent solar panels should give plenty of power.

Im motorhomed out now. Spent all day looking at them. I like the Bailey but I have concerns. I also like the look of the Autotrail Apache 700 but have concerns. Its a massive decision and a lot of money and I dont want to cock it up.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful info.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

There are plenty of decision making tools you can use to buy the right motorhome. I've used the same one for the last 25 years because it suits me. It has produced the right results on all eight occasions [two were caravans].


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## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

Barry - the Bailey Approach models (up to end 2013) had Truma blown air heating. The Approach Autograph all have Alde wet heating which uses less 12 volt as it only needs a very small pump to push the fluid round the system. We changed our Approach 745 to an Autograph 745 mainly to get the Alde heating as my OH found the Truma dried his throat out quite severely. We use our vehicles off grid 98% of the time, had two batteries in both vans plus two solar panels, present jones are two 120 ones. We have used the van down to about -10 with no problems with the water, everything worked fine. This is our "for at least 10 years" van, works fine, drives really well, very stable and superb mpg for the size of vehicle. We just have a bike rack in the back so can't say about fitting a scooter rack. 
Good luck in the decision - it's always a nightmare!! Great believer in gut feeling for decisions like this, IMHO tends to be pretty accurate!


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Just like to add having had one of the very first Baileys, they never supplied motorhomes that could not charge the leisure battery from the engine.
What it didn't do was charge the cab battery from the on hook charger hence the need for a Battery master or equivalent.
There is not a problem with water filling from the hose, people who say there is havent read the instructions properly, filled mine yesterday from a tap 7 mins from empty to 100 litres overflowing.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

pete4x4 said:


> Just like to add having had one of the very first Baileys, they never supplied motorhomes that could not charge the leisure battery from the engine.
> What it didn't do was charge the cab battery from the on hook charger hence the need for a Battery master or equivalent.
> There is not a problem with water filling from the hose, people who say there is havent read the instructions properly, filled mine yesterday from a tap 7 mins from empty to 100 litres overflowing.


Well thanks for clearing that up. My Konitki has never charged the cab battery from the hookup either so I wouldnt have missed such a feature.

Its a pity they but the battery right at the back though as if you install two its putting a lot of weight towards the rear if Im putting a scooter on as well.

I did come across this beast this afternoon from Eura Mobil http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...-A-690HS-2008-motorhome-review/_ch1_rw251_pg1

Fits all the requirements and being Eura will be fully winterised with loads of storage but apparently setting up the rear lounge bed is nigh on impossible so its ruled out just because of that. ITs my job sorting the beds out on a night and imagine if Ive had a few and I aint climbing up in the Luton!  Pity.

Thats a really useful tool on OAL.


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## adbt (Apr 6, 2010)

Have had a Bailey Approach 740 from new ( 2 yrs ago ) and we absolutely love it , it's had its teething problems but then again what new vehicles don't .
The van is a keeper but when the time comes to change I'd have no qualms about buying another Bailey
No other vans in this category give such a sense of space , we describe it as " apartment like " .
The lack of second hand ones tells its own story ! 
Good luck in your search !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

If we do get one I think I have hit a real problem. Been measuring up and its at least 6 inches wider than the Kontiki. I dont think it will fit on the drive as it is now. Have a look.










I went out and measured it this morning and there is about 2 inches between the awning and the waste pipe down the wall and about 5 inches or so against the other wall. I thought there was more and that there was only a couple of inches difference but I think the Bailey is 7'11" wide and the Kontiki which I thought was 7'8" is actually 7'5ft wide so a difference of 6 inches which is not going to work I dont think. Ooops!

The only option would bet to either move the waste pipe out of the bathroom somehow (probably impossible) or park the van somewhere else like the village hall car park. Despite the virtually zero crime rate here I dont fancy leaving it where I cant see it. Bugger.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

It's pointless asking folk which van is best as opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one and they are all different..

So I will save you the bother of asking, Hymer hands down:wink2:...

ray.


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

adbt said:


> Have had a Bailey Approach 740 from new ( 2 yrs ago ) and we absolutely love it , it's had its teething problems but then again what new vehicles don't ...........


some will say German-built ones ;-)


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

mgdavid said:


> some will say German-built ones ;-)


I dont know, I am pretty sure over the years I have seen a fair few posts on here about German vans having problems as well although I think its undeniable that Hymer have a good reputation (well certainly the earlier ones). What is the cost of fixing stuff when it goes wrong though? Loads of things break on my Kontiki as it gets used a lot but they seldom cost much to fix (apart from a new axle of course which was Alko which are on loads of vans).

All these bells and whistles and electronics are all fair and good like the fancy heating etc but what happens when they go wrong eventually and how much does it cost to replace these things?

Grath made a comment earlier about simple set ups being best and I am starting to think he has a good point.

Its definitely worth asking Ray. Peoples opinions and experiences are so valid and important. I started this thread about two particular marques and wanted peoples opinions. Its been useful to me as I have learned a lot particularly about Bailey and the general trend is people who bought them are happy with them. I am sure if there were some nightmare stories they would have surfaced by now. Im still not convinced its the right van for us but it ticks a lot of boxes. Anyway if it wont fit on the drive we might have to think again.

I bet I end up with another Kontiki. 

I would like to thank once again everyone for their contributions, PM's and emails. Whatever I decide to do this thread has re-enforced my faith in this forum. Brilliant stuff.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

mgdavid said:


> some will say German-built ones ;-)


Ohh well if they are as reliable as VWs, MBs and BMWs you have nothing to worry about then.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

There's been a few fully loaded Tiki 649's around recently at £42-50k. But maybe too long, too wide or too many £'s??

An example but lo-line http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-KON...710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4745fce6


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## urbanracer (Aug 22, 2007)

If the Bailey you looked at is too wide Bailey will have soon the new Bailey Advance range.
This is not as wide and has normal water fill and blown heating.


I saw the model I want at the Trafford centre in Jan this year but the new vans are not available until July/august.


I was going to buy a Autograph but when I saw the Advance I changed my mind.


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

pete4x4 said:


> There is not a problem with water filling from the hose, people who say there is havent read the instructions properly, filled mine yesterday from a tap 7 mins from empty to 100 litres overflowing.


Well, Pete, having read your rather condescending comment, I checked back in our manual. I can only assume that *either* your 740 Approach has a different water filling system to my 13 plate 740 Approach *or* your handbook is different to mine - which just says, in 6-2, lift external socket lid, insert Aquasource plug and close cover down c90 degrees, connect hose to tap & turn on, ensuring no kinks in hose. (I've paraphrased slightly.)

Or perhaps you're just cleverer than me! I must have misunderstood the instructions, I suppose.

Certainly I do find the system a pain, my filling time from empty is at least 15 minutes. And all those people on various forums who've gone to great lengths to find quicker ways of filling will no doubt be delighted to hear from you what elementary mistake we're all making.

Please enlighten us all!


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Barry even you would be hard pressed to break a Hymer:grin2:..

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> There's been a few fully loaded Tiki 649's around recently at £42-50k. But maybe too long, too wide or too many £'s??
> 
> An example but lo-line http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-KON...710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4745fce6


They look superb don't they? Probably a tad too big and unnecessary for us really and yes still too much money but they do still have the front 4 seater dinette. I really don't know what Swift were thinking when they did away with the Pullman 4 seater dinette on the newer Kontikis and put in like an L shaped seating area. They already have a back lounge so why get rid of the front table and dinette? I may still have to consider one and I reckon I could get a good one for less than £30K.



rayrecrok said:


> Barry even you would be hard pressed to break a Hymer:grin2:..
> 
> ray.


Bet I could and it would cost more to repair!


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

My Hymer doesn't need breaking, it's falling apart on its own accord.


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## adbt (Apr 6, 2010)

Solwaybuggier said:


> Well, Pete, having read your rather condescending comment, I checked back in our manual. I can only assume that *either* your 740 Approach has a different water filling system to my 13 plate 740 Approach *or* your handbook is different to mine - which just says, in 6-2, lift external socket lid, insert Aquasource plug and close cover down c90 degrees, connect hose to tap & turn on, ensuring no kinks in hose. (I've paraphrased slightly.)
> 
> Or perhaps you're just cleverer than me! I must have misunderstood the instructions, I suppose.
> 
> ...


I'm with Pete 4X4 , I find the filling system fast and efficient .


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

adbt said:


> I'm with Pete 4X4 , I find the filling system fast and efficient .


That's fine - perhaps you can explain what it is us mere mortals are doing wrong then? I just want to know how to fill my tank in the 7 minutes Pete4x4 claims!

I don't find 20 minutes fast or efficient- so I'm obviously doing it wrong, just can't see how.

In general I really like our van, but find the water filling a pain.


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## adbt (Apr 6, 2010)

Solwaybuggier said:


> That's fine - perhaps you can explain what it is us mere mortals are doing wrong then? I just want to know how to fill my tank in the 7 minutes Pete4x4 claims!
> 
> I don't find 20 minutes fast or efficient- so I'm obviously doing it wrong, just can't see how.
> 
> In general I really like our van, but find the water filling a pain.


Sounds like you are doing everything right , must be some internal gubbings so me thinks ! Honestly mine fills in ten mins max :idea1:


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## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

What about this Barry?

Bit expensive perhaps: http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...c554695014c7fb1812b386f/makemodel/make/bailey


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

adbt said:


> Sounds like you are doing everything right , must be some internal gubbings so me thinks ! Honestly mine fills in ten mins max :idea1:


This is getting a bit surreal - it's certainly not just me. Someone, I think on here a while back, was driven so demented by it he was planning on changing half his pipework. I've shared gripes over filling speed with loads of people, both online & in the real world.

If we're in a hurry we use the hosepipe in the top filler cap method, but what really pi**ed me off was Pete4x4 saying that there's no problem unless you're failing to read the instructions.

So, Pete, if you're out there please just explain what most of us are doing wrong!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Hawcara said:


> What about this Barry?
> 
> Bit expensive perhaps: http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...c554695014c7fb1812b386f/makemodel/make/bailey


Thanks. Looks great but a bit to small. Would go or the 6 berth 760se with the overhead cab if I did get one.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Solwaybuggier said:


> This is getting a bit surreal - it's certainly not just me. Someone, I think on here a while back, was driven so demented by it he was planning on changing half his pipework. I've shared gripes over filling speed with loads of people, both online & in the real world.
> 
> If we're in a hurry we use the hosepipe in the top filler cap method, but what really pi**ed me off was Pete4x4 saying that there's no problem unless you're failing to read the instructions.
> 
> So, Pete, if you're out there please just explain what most of us are doing wrong!


A lot of comments were based on it filling slowly as you have worked out if you close the flap so that the socket clips into the groove in the flap it pulls the socket in tight and ensures that the valve opens fully. If you close the flap without that happening then it isn't properly located and the valve is not opened.
I'm sorry if your pissed off but the system works for me and therefore has to work for you unless your valve is faulty.
There are already people who have said flap, what flap.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I was always taken by the Dethleffs Alpa even though it wouldn't suit us.

Perfect for you except perhaps the price.

http://www.pullingers.co.uk/newveh/014.htm

Kev


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

WildThingsKev said:


> I was always taken by the Dethleffs Alpa even though it wouldn't suit us.
> 
> Perfect for you except perhaps the price.
> 
> ...


Sounds ok but I cannot work out what is going on in the front. Does i have a dinette or not? Anyway like you say £83K! Having a larf!!!!


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

barryd said:


> Sounds ok but I cannot work out what is going on in the front. Does i have a dinette or not? Anyway like you say £83K! Having a larf!!!!


Ahhh, no dinette. But it must be the only van with a rear lounge over a full (scooter) sized garage.

Kev


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

It looks like the front luton is 2 singles length way. Different!! IMHO was of space. But everyone to their own.

Thats not a full scooter size garage. Unless you take a mini motto...

But if they can do a full width garage with a rear lounge why can't UK manufactures do the same?


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Revise said:


> It looks like the front luton is 2 singles length way. Different!! IMHO was of space. But everyone to their own.
> 
> Thats not a full scooter size garage. Unless you take a mini motto...
> 
> But if they can do a full width garage with a rear lounge why can't UK manufactures do the same?


It's actually a bigger garage than it looks, the van is 11ft tall. Maybe a scooter is taller, I don't know.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Barry - Swift/Marquis Lifestyle 686 or Swift Escape 686? Both with end lounge, dinette and a sort of decent payload by all accounts.

http://www.marquisleisure.co.uk/motorhomes/stock-item/swift-lifestyle-686-25336


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> Barry - Swift/Marquis Lifestyle 686 or Swift Escape 686? Both with end lounge, dinette and a sort of decent payload by all accounts.
> 
> http://www.marquisleisure.co.uk/motorhomes/stock-item/swift-lifestyle-686-25336


Thanks

I found this model yesterday. I think it must be quite recent as there is only one used one on Autotrader.

There are a few Kontiki 645' for sale which is pretty much the replacement for the 640 we have now. They seem to jump in price a bit once they get to 2007/8 when the new shape cab came in. One or two mid 2000's examples going quite cheap though. http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...288&longitude=-1.8069292349&postcode=DL11 7HH

£25K instead of £40K. Thats quite a leap and they are on the old 2.8 diesel lump which I gather is bullet proof.

Payload is just 525 KG on a 4250KG chassis so quite a heavy beast. I gather the 525KG includes driver and 90% water and fuel which the payload on our current van at 680KG does not include. I think they changed the rules at some point. Just a question of it its enough to take a rack.

Its not easy is it?


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

That 2007 645 on Trader might be a good layout or the one and only late model on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-KON...416?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d314002e0 More info on the 645 if it helps in your quest:

http://assets.swiftgroup.co.uk/swift-group/brochures/motorhomes/swift/kon-tiki/Kon-tiki%20Sept%202006.pdf

http://assets.swiftgroup.co.uk/swift-group/brochures/motorhomes/swift/kon-tiki/Kon-tiki Oct 2007.pdf

Looks like the 645 was dropped for Swift's 2008 model year though and then only tags and French bed (single axle).


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> That 2007 645 on Trader might be a good layout or the one and only late model on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-KON...416?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d314002e0 More info on the 645 if it helps in your quest:
> 
> http://assets.swiftgroup.co.uk/swif...orhomes/swift/kon-tiki/Kon-tiki Sept 2006.pdf
> 
> ...


Cheers for that. I found a similar PDF earlier. Think they moved the water tanks externally at some point as well. Ours is internal.

Will have a scour through later. There just aint that many of any of the models I would consider up for sale. I wonder if the back end of the year is a better time to buy.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Barry

I had been ignoring this thread but have just noticed it was your OP.

After reading through all 9 pages I only have the odd contribution to add.

The rear lounge does give you limitations especially by ruling out many good continental manufacturers. There are some layouts with setees on either side of a front lounge - have you considered these? - just park backwards and you have a rear lounge:laugh: Because that way you might get a garage which would allow the scooter to put less weight on the rear axle. Problem is these models might be too long/expensive. 

Reference your worry about parts for Hymers etc.; the base vehiles are the same as are a lot of domestic systems - fridges, cookers, heating, taps, water pumps etc.Windows may be different but probably the higher quality ones, while being more expensive to replace, will endure better. Body parts might be more expensive, but then our skirt is alloy not plastic so more robust.

I have no experience of Alde. Truma does take a bit of extra leccy until selected heat is achieved, but then it cuts back to tick-over or if reasonably warm shuts off. It is only noisy for a few minutes at the start. Comments are that it heats a cold MH quicker than Alde, so maybe one might leave the Alde running wheras one could have the MH warm in a few minutes with the Truma. 

You mentioned charging for hab batteries and you obviously would fit solar panels but I would also recommend a B2B charger would also benefit you because you do move around quite frequently and it charges hab batteries quickly if there is no sun.

I did not know what the PUAL construction system was until I just researched it. As used by Hymer it is similar to our N+B double-aluminium sandwich, but the Hymer has ply on the inside of the sandwich. it does have the advantage of no timber in the walls and of bonded fastening. I do not know the construction of the Bailey and other UK models you are looking at but you have already had a quite expensive repair due to damp, so maybe this balances out the costs of any more expensive parts above.

Just a few jottings for your consideration.

As you know I am looking at German builders - but I am biased, and do not have the rear-lounge requirement

Geoff


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## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

Here's a thought for you:

http://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-i...ories=Integrated&categories=PartlyIntegrated#

Downside it's lhd, but it has all the toys and there are plenty on here who would show you how to import it. You can also lie on the rear bed, instead of the lounge at the back.
Alternatively there are ones on this site with a garage.

eg

http://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-i...ntegrated&categories=PartlyIntegrated&noec=1#


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Just come back from the motor home repairs shop where I have had my habitation done... Dry as a bone the man said.. No fears taking a Hymer for a damp check:wink2:..

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for the further considered replies and links. There is no doubting it a Hymer would be great and yes I am convinced that they are superbly built and unlikely to suffer damp but nothing anyone says or shows me will convince me of an alternative layout to the front Pullman and rear U shaped lounge so that kind of rights off a huge amount of foreign vans. I did however whilst wading through the vast amount of sites and reviews on Sunday read that there was an emerging trend in continental vans to produce the British Layout. As I mentioned earlier I found a superb Eura Mobil with exactly that layout but with the advantage of huge storage and fully winterised. The reviewer however condemned it because of the rear bed being impossible to make. I have heard reports of Eura Mobil vans suffering damp though anyway.

Everytime I look into this (This is not the first time) I end up keeping my van as I cannot find a replacement that measures up!! Would you believe it? 

Cant do that for ever though so I think I need to get out and see a few but I suspect Ill end up with another Brit van. 

The other limiting factor as well as my stubbornness on layout is the requirement for enough payload for the scooter which is why the Alko Chassis is useful as the overhang is less. Maybe I should commission Swift to rebuild a brand new 640 like the one we have now.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Barry, I have come to the conclusion, that whatever M/H a person has, there is always a compromise somewhere, that is why some folk build their own.
Then as I said earlier, what lay out, or must haves at one time, a few years later through different use, might change!
Anyway, I think the best accessory, or must have, is the Galley Slave to cook, when you can't be bothered to BBQ, wash the dishes, and most importantly, keep your bits (sorry, I mean hands and feet) nice and warm :wink2::smile2:
Anyway, I don't think with your record of breaking things, you should get a Hymer, their street cred would diminish :serious:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grath said:


> Barry, I have come to the conclusion, that whatever M/H a person has, there is always a compromise somewhere, that is why some folk build their own.
> Then as I said earlier, what lay out, or must haves at one time, a few years later through different use, might change!
> Anyway, I think the best accessory, or must have, is the Galley Slave to cook, when you can't be bothered to BBQ, wash the dishes, and most importantly, keep your bits (sorry, I mean hands and feet) nice and warm :wink2::smile2:
> Anyway, I don't think with your record of breaking things, you should get a Hymer, their street cred would diminish :serious:


I dont think I should ever be allowed a Hymer either. You cant even type the word Hymer on "Another forum" I go on without it changing 

Remember this Guffaw! :grin2:


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok, here is another suggestion which is much cheaper than my last effort. 
Euramobil: 6.9m, no huge overhang, no wood, big storage, dinette and rear lounge, 2008 and under £30k.

http://motors.friday-ad.co.uk/strou...ale/eura-mobil/eura-mobil-terrestra-YI506A22A


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

WildThingsKev said:


> Ok, here is another suggestion which is much cheaper than my last effort.
> Euramobil: 6.9m, no huge overhang, no wood, big storage, dinette and rear lounge, 2008 and under £30k.
> 
> http://motors.friday-ad.co.uk/strou...ale/eura-mobil/eura-mobil-terrestra-YI506A22A


Cheers thanks. This is the one I mentioned earlier. What put me off was the review of the rear lounge bed being almost impossible to make up which sound picky but when you have to do it for months at a time every night. Its also very tall with it having a raised floor and underneath storage.

That one is the 3.0 litre version but I Can only find specs for the 2.3 litre and the weight is 3500KG with a payload of just 450KG. I wonder if there is a heavier version as I cant imagine a 3 litre version on a 3500KG chassis surely?

Might be worth more of a look. Burgundy cupboards would take some getting used to and I suspect Mrs D would take one look and just turn her nose up and thats game over. :grin2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Does michelle prefer Bordeaux then?

[Groan]


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Barry - how about a Bessacarr E795? Personally though I can't stand the upholstery that Bessacarr offered.


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Barry - Remind us again as to WHY you want / need to cahnge your van?

You say you will be looking to spend up to 40K for the right model. Your current van is ideal for you and Michelle (your words).....

Why dont you just spend the 40K (most probably a damn sight less) and have your current van completely renovated.

New upholstery, new carpets (if you want), new engine even!!!, complete re-spray - all over, new heater installed etc. etc. etc.

You know your current van serves you well - just modernise it!!!

It is what Flo and I will be doing with ours in a year or two. It needs a cab re-spray as the bonnet is covered in stone chips, the upholstery will need replacing soon, the underside will get a full overhaul and protection and the whole van will have the Tourershine Restoration treatment. http://www.tourershine.co.uk/

Our van is just on 10 years old now. It is ideal for us and, like you, we have looked but cannot find anything that would replace it. So, with the above work, we think it will see us through another 10 years - hopefully more!!!

Just thoughts................

Carl


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Barry - Remind us again as to WHY you want / need to cahnge your van?
> 
> You say you will be looking to spend up to 40K for the right model. Your current van is ideal for you and Michelle (your words).....
> 
> ...


Thanks Carl and everybody.

This isn't the first time I started a thread like this and every time we end up sticking with our current van. We really were spot on with our first choice. It will break my heart to part with this van but it's now 19 years old, parts are getting harder to come by and given the hammer it gets I think it's time to at least start looking. Also looking at the market this model is still fetching good money. My gut feeling is that in a year or two its resale value will perhaps start to drop remarkably but I could be wrong.

I have met two ex kontiki 640 owners that both regretted parting with their vans though.

Regarding the bessacar mentioned, looks good but yes, what's going on with the upholstery?

I reckon I'm gonna need an Alko chassis with a short overhang which brings me back to the Kontiki 645 or the Bailey


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

barryd said:


> Thanks
> 
> Only Hymer I found was a B534 but its probably too small.
> 
> ...


Hi Barry

Try looking in the slightly older B6xx hymer range.

we had a 1985 B534 in the family for just over 20 years, i owned it for the last 5, and it was fantastic, i totally appreciate your view on the rear lounge but having two kids we wanted a garage.

for the last 4 or 5 years we've had a B644GL, ours is 2002 which i think is older than you would want and i don't think they still do the B644xx in the latest ranges, i think mid to late 2000s may be the newest.

there are several options for the 644 layout which seem to be mixed and matched; the rear can be fixed bed over garage (like ours) or U shaped lounge, the centre area can be dinette or L shaped lounge (like ours), the vehicle can be A class with drop down bed and captain chairs (like ours) or C class. note; hymer do a piece of furniture that is a replacement for the front drop down bed giving a large amount of head room and further storage that matches the rest of the van. it may be worth considering the L shaped mid lounge as opposed to the dinette, as the lounge offers more space (and definitely feels/looks more spacious) whilst offering more table space to work than the dinette, and either could be paired with the U shaped lounge at the rear.

the 644 is just under 7 metres long
alko chassis without a large overhang
dinette is an option with a U shaped lounge
bed can be exchanged for storage
tanks held within the alko floors
PAUL construction (note you can still get a leak at seems/joints)
A class and C class versions
usually rated at 4 tonne (2300 rear, 1850 front) but some are 3850, going to 4 from 3850 is a paper exercise.
i think the payload is good; most of our stuff stays in the van meaning we just grab toiletries, clothes, food when we set off, in this semi/largely loaded state (including fuel, 2 adults and 2 children) it weighs 3520Kg.

I have such faith it will last longer than i probably will, i've totally cleaned and waxoyled the chassis and last year we added E&P hydraulic leveling system (just over 45Kg).

The A class are the more expensive ones and can very easily be found for under 25,000, clean example with rear U and centre L lounge LINK
there is an older 2000 currently on ebay for 18,000, C class are cheaper.

Good luck and i hope this helps
Lee


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## Roverdave (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi Barry,

Just a quick look in as we are off and haven,t got our internet working properly, but just to say we have the Bailey Approach 740, we looked at lots of vans before we bought it, and we love the space inside. We thought so many vans looked cramped and dark. We wild most of the time, and have had no problems. Instslled the gaslow, and will do solar panels in due course. This is our first van so nothing to compare, but we are happy with it. Unless you go in the 
Gorge du Tarn of course, which we foolishly did last week, white van man pranged the mirror and my nerves are in shreds LOL. Then I wish we had Harry Potters night bus.

Cheers
Lesley and Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Many thanks for this really useful contribution Lee. As soon as I can get online properly (on phone at mo) I will have a look.

Those weights on a 4 ton sound spot on and an alko chassis. I really think I need a coach built with a Luton though rather than A class.

I dunno if the Hymer owners would accept me as a member though. Might lower the tone. Mid you they let Rayrecrock have one.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

barryd said:


> Many thanks for this really useful contribution Lee. As soon as I can get online properly (on phone at mo) I will have a look.
> 
> Those weights on a 4 ton sound spot on and an alko chassis. I really think I need a coach built with a Luton though rather than A class.
> 
> I dunno if the Hymer owners would accept me as a member though. Might lower the tone. Mid you they let Rayrecrock have one.


Barry, you will need to sell yourself some of those Friutcake Hymer stickers>
Might add a few pence to the value:grin2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Many thanks for this really useful contribution Lee. As soon as I can get online properly (on phone at mo) I will have a look.
> 
> Those weights on a 4 ton sound spot on and an alko chassis. I really think I need a coach built with a Luton though rather than A class.
> 
> I dunno if the Hymer owners would accept me as a member though. Might lower the tone. Mid you they let Rayrecrock have one.


Yeah go on Barry, become a Hymer owner then you won't lower the tone of the N+B Owners Club:laugh:

Geoff (N+B Snob's Club Member)


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks again.

Geoff. As far as I know your the only member!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> Yeah go on Barry, become a Hymer owner then you won't lower the tone of the N+B Owners Club:laugh:
> 
> Geoff (N+B Snob's Club Member)


Wot? Me exclusive? At last - waited a long time for that:laugh::laugh::laugh:

EDIT As an aside, the N+B Owners Club website is a haven of peace, quiet and helpfulness that has gone missing elsewhere.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hymers are "Iron Bru" not lemonade, they are made from Girders, they can even go through Albania, thats good enough for me, our old Auto Trail Mohican we would have been sweeping up stuff that had fallen off all the way to Greece.:crying:


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hymers are "Iron Bru" not lemonade, they are made from Girders, they can even go through Albania, thats good enough for me, our old Auto Trail Mohican we would have been sweeping up stuff that had fallen off all the way to Greece.:crying:


Barry would be lost, totally bored out of his mind, lost nothing to repair, and the forum would die as not many requests for help:wink2:
Maybe he could get his Hymer sticker suppler to make some saying Swift:laugh:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grath said:


> Barry would be lost, totally bored out of his mind, lost nothing to repair, and the forum would die as not many requests for help:wink2:
> Maybe he could get his Hymer sticker suppler to make some saying Swift:laugh:


Trust me, Hymer shares will plummet once I get one as I will break it.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Grath said:


> Maybe he could get his Hymer sticker suppler to make some saying Swift:laugh:


I'd buy some :wink2:.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

barryd said:


> Trust me, Hymer shares will plummet once I get one as I will break it.


You won't get one as you will have nothing to say or post about, whoa is me :crying: my wife's been blown up, or my wheels are falling off and making grinding sounds and the fridge won't work... Again!...

You will become boring...:wink2:... Trust me I'm adopted....

ray


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## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

What about this Barry, complete with scooter rack.

http://www.motorhomes.co.uk/motorhomes-for-sale/hymer/b-class/b584/1580/


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Hawcara said:


> What about this Barry, complete with scooter rack.
> 
> http://www.motorhomes.co.uk/motorhomes-for-sale/hymer/b-class/b584/1580/


Thanks, looks ok. There is a 2005 644 with a Luton on autotrader for £22k but it's definitely not on an Alko chassis. Looks good though. Might be a model to look for if I can find one at 4 ton on the Alko chassis


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Get a proper Hymer







1.5 ton payload, goes like the clappers.. Does everything I want it to and loads of room..:wink2:.. Easy takes the scooter rack nailed on the back, or inside the garage..

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Get a proper Hymer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brilliant Ray. I would have one of they did a rear lounge model. Would prefer 7-7.5 metres really.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Aren't Hymer owners banned, or at least discouraged, on Fruitcakes?


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Brock said:


> Aren't Hymer owners banned, or at least discouraged, on Fruitcakes?


If it wasn't for me there would be no Fruitcakes, so I get special dispensation....:wink2:

ray


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Brock said:


> Aren't Hymer owners banned, or at least discouraged, on Fruitcakes?


No! They are actively encouraged so we can bash them up and make fun of them. Tis true what Ray says. It's all down to him and a drunken Saturday night spent in a Field in Yorkshire. 

Back to seriousness. (Is that even a real word?) can anyone find the specs or details for the 4 ton c class hymer 644 on an Alko chassis with a rear lounge and Luton? I'm struggling on. Mobile and dodgy wifi at the moment. Does this beast exist and where can I get one? I saw a 644 yesterday somewhere online with the wrong layout but it was 2006. I wonder if that was the last year. 2005/6 would be ok.

I think they call them a b644 classic.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Barry

The 2005 model Hymer 644 came in Classic trim and layout, centre dinette and small rear U shaped lounge. 3900kg was an optional laden mass. From memory, the Classic vans did not have double floors and so there may be an issue about winterisation.

The 644 GT was a centre dinette and rear double bed. It was 7cm taller than the Classic.

The C Class was rarely imported by Hymer UK in Preston [pre Brownhills take over] so a RHD version in the UK will be difficult to find.

I have the Hymer 2005 brochures and can scan a few more pages if you need them.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Brock, that's useful. No need to scan, I'll have a proper root around when I get online properly.

Probably quite rare then. I'm not really fussed about lhd or rhd really. Pluses and minuses for both.

I thought someone earlier said they were winterised though.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I just drove past our local dealers and saw a tag Euramobil with rear lounge and towbar:

http://www.edenmotorhomes.co.uk/used-motorhome-eura-mobil-810-hs-motorhome-267


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi Barry

The C class (luton) Alko 644 is the Hymer Camp 644 GT which is winterised, the rear bed and garage option is far more popular but a google image search brings up a couple with a rear lounge, unfortunately not in the UK.

The B634 has a very large rear lounge but is A class, there are C class 634s but i've only seen them with a rear bed

HTH

Lee


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Kev and Lee. I think Eura Mobil do a coach built tag version as well with our preferred layout. Thanks for the details on the Hymer Lee. So they do exist but will be like Hens teeth!

Maybe I need to lol outside of the U.K as well.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Note that some of the a class vans, like the euramobil, have so much double floor storage that the overcab storage may not be required.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

WildThingsKev said:


> Note that some of the a class vans, like the euramobil, have so much double floor storage that the overcab storage may not be required.


Good point. We need space to put preferably normal size or folding bikes and a roll up dinghy. I am sure though I remember reading about Euro Mobil vans having damp issues. Then again I drive a Swift.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Look at this great big beast. http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...0590146c6f47b457435/makemodel/make/eura_mobil

Getting on a bit and price seems low. 8000 miles in 13 years? I think that would put me off but quite a beasty.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

There was a huger Euromobil parked next to us in the Facts pound at the Peterborough Show. Friendly couple with two children, and a dog. She was Danish and he was a mine of information on touring Sweden.


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

barryd said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> Running costs, availability of parts etc have to be taken into consideration. I might spend £40K on a newer van but I havent got a massive budget to keep it on the road and it may well be the last van we have. I will probably keep it 15 to 20 years.


And then what are you going to do? You won't even be as old as me and many other forum members...


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

HermanHymer said:


> And then what are you going to do? You won't even be as old as me and many other forum members...


Quite.

and before that he will probably need two new scooters and two more dinghies, not to mention bicycles and saddles:surprise::laugh:

Let's just hope he never wants to learn to fly!


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

This is unusual!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Limi...571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a22bc8eb


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

jo662 said:


> This is unusual!
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Limi...571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a22bc8eb


Could get warm in the Med in Summer.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

A Blue Kontiki! Hmm not sure.

As for what I'll do when I'm 70? Celebrate that I've lasted that long.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

How does the Swift Voyager 695EL grab you - decent payload as well http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...3a4/makemodel/make/swift/model/voyager-695-el


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> How does the Swift Voyager 695EL grab you - decent payload as well http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...3a4/makemodel/make/swift/model/voyager-695-el


Thanks. Looks nice but I cannot find details of Payload and it looks like it does not have a full 4 seater front dinette. Also is it on the Alko chassis as the short overhang and Alko chassis is a major plus for us.


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

This looks a good buy Barry!>
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swift-kontiki-669-/281691147505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item419619ccf1


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

jo662 said:


> This looks a good buy Barry!>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swift-kontiki-669-/281691147505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item419619ccf1


Thanks but if I went for one of those it would have to be the rear lounge model which remember was non negotiable. They look fantastic though dont they? (Well they do to me).

But how can a £70K motorhome like that thats clearly built for long term touring have only done 4000 miles in 7 years? What have they been doing with it, polishing it all the time with the odd weekend on the local CC Site?


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

barryd said:


> Thanks but if I went for one of those it would have to be the rear lounge model which remember was non negotiable. They look fantastic though dont they? (Well they do to me).
> 
> But how can a £70K motorhome like that thats clearly built for long term touring have only done 4000 miles in 7 years? What have they been doing with it, polishing it all the time with the odd weekend on the local CC Site?


There are quite alot of very low mileage motorhomes for sale all over.Obviously some people use them and some people polish them!!:laugh:


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

Rear lounge>

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-FIAT...532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4d44840c


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

barryd said:


> ........
> But how can a £70K motorhome like that thats clearly built for long term touring have only done 4000 miles in 7 years? What have they been doing with it, polishing it all the time with the odd weekend on the local CC Site?


just to maintain the average, I've done over 4000 miles in the 3 months I've had mine.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

jo662 said:


> Rear lounge>
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-FIAT...532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4d44840c


Looks nice. Another one with less than 1000 miles a year on it. Wonder what it cost new. Its a lot of money to depreciate if you dont use it.


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

barryd said:


> Looks nice. Another one with less than 1000 miles a year on it. Wonder what it cost new. Its a lot of money to depreciate if you dont use it.


I think its good for people like me looking for secondhand low mileage,hardly used motorhomes, that some people have the money to buy big expensive motorhomes and don`t use them!>


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Bumping an old thread........

Any progress on a replacement? Just curious :smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

deefordog said:


> Bumping an old thread........
> 
> Any progress on a replacement? Just curious :smile2:


Thanks. No. Hank did another four month tour of Europe last Summer plus three weeks at Christmas but I pretty much decided to sell him in the spring. Well I say pretty much. 

My plan was sell at the best time in the market but maybe buy backend or early winter. Depends on the right van turning up which could take months or more.

Not so sure about Bailey anymore. Read a lot of negative things since the thread started but I do like their rear lounge and Luton van. Ticks a lot of boxes. I bet we end up with another Kontiki though.

Might be selling the house as well and moving to France eventually so maybe a euro van would be better.

A lot to think about.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

T"hank"s Barry. (d'ya like that lol).

 whichever way you go.


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