# Now's the time to buy an RV in the US



## stewartwebr

Hello,

Just been looking at RV's for sale here in LA and had a look last week in Las Vegas. Three companies in LA are going under. One company was offering a 30% discount on all used stock over Labor Day weekend. An other was offereing to pay your gas bills for the first year up to a max of $10,000 on selected vehicles.

On speaking to the salesman in Vegas he was saying he has never seen the market like this since the Suez crisis!

So if you are thinking of importing now is the time, however, with fuel prices still rising how long will it be until the bottom falls out the UK RV Market?

Stewart


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## chalky9

....trouble is, the pound has recently fallen from over 2 dollars to 1.76..... :?


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## brillopad

only got 1.70 two days ago, this time last year 1.98


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## 107088

Checking out going to buy another RV this winter, and the drop in prices over there has almost been cancelled out by the drop in value of sterling.

the problem with the import issue isnt the purchase price, its the shipping costs in dollars which hasnt dropped, therefore, considering the £/$US exchange, the price of shipping has risen by about 17%. The other issue is the cost of air fares which is apparently likely to rise fairly substantially in the near future.


Its a blessed pain if truth be known, we were hoping to get everything sorted by years end, but I cant eem to get anyone over in the Uk to confirm next years contracts. Nobody is making guarantees about next years motorsport contracts either, and that, apparently is 'cos nobody has the firt idea what our glorious leader has got up his sleeve. Its not only the financial situation, but aslo, theres things in the pipline for sport sponsorship too.


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## tel999

Hi
If you look long and hard you will find UK prices as cheap or in some cases cheaper than the USA, and all this with the benefits of being here, registered, converted, and road legal.
Two recent examples:
Brand new 2007 Winnebago Sightseer 26 £42,000
2004 monaco cayaman 34 £45,000

Regards
Tel


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## niq70

Hi tel999 was that your 26 sightseer you were quoting,Ithink the cayman is now up for sale at griffin for 65000£,Do you still have the 29 for sale


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## aultymer

> Brand new 2007 Winnebago Sightseer 26 £42,000


A hint of where to find this would be good?


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## asprn

stewartwebr said:


> how long will it be until the bottom falls out the UK RV Market?


It strikes me that it's not much of a market in any case, compared to the "normal" UK (European) motorhomes market. When we got ours, there was a psychological barrier to overcome before buying, which was the perceived running costs. When it was pointed out to me (at the time) that the extra fuel costs equated to £90 per 1,000 miles, I was in (it'll be more now obviously, but I haven't been bothered to calculate).

What you get for your money will always be amazing, and because it's not a mass-market, I don't think it'll collapse.

Dougie.


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## teemyob

asprn said:


> stewartwebr said:
> 
> 
> 
> how long will it be until the bottom falls out the UK RV Market?
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that it's not much of a market in any case, compared to the "normal" UK (European) motorhomes market. When we got ours, there was a psychological barrier to overcome before buying, which was the perceived running costs. When it was pointed out to me (at the time) that the extra fuel costs equated to £90 per 1,000 miles, I was in (it'll be more now obviously, but I haven't been bothered to calculate).
> 
> What you get for your money will always be amazing, and because it's not a mass-market, I don't think it'll collapse.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

£90 per 1,000 miles so lets say a rise of even as much as 50% still does not seem so bad to me, considering the value for money when gauged against European models.

Then I guess there are always LPG converted vehicles available that will reduce this difference even further.

Take for example owners of larger European Diesels, Fiart and Mercedes, so I am not being biased. many of which are reporting fuel consumption under 20 MPG. Owners of LPG converted RV's have quoted figures equivelent to around 16-18MPG.

Trev.


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## Rislar

And if you hold on for another year, we will be buying a horse and using a caravan !!!! you wouldn't think that fuel had dropped to just over $100 a barrel!!!


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## sersol

asprn said:


> stewartwebr said:
> 
> 
> 
> how long will it be until the bottom falls out the UK RV Market?
> 
> 
> 
> It strikes me that it's not much of a market in any case, compared to the "normal" UK (European) motorhomes market. When we got ours, there was a psychological barrier to overcome before buying, which was the perceived running costs. When it was pointed out to me (at the time) that the extra fuel costs equated to £90 per 1,000 miles, I was in (it'll be more now obviously, but I haven't been bothered to calculate).
> 
> What you get for your money will always be amazing, and because it's not a mass-market, _*I don't think it'll collapse.*_Dougie.
Click to expand...

I think you will find it HAS if you talk to the RV dealers  .


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## duxdeluxe

I was in Houston a few weeks ago and wandered into one of the RV dealers on I-45 at the weekend. Same story - they were so bored that they were actually glad to talk to someone to stated that he had no intention of buying one but wanted to have a look. The English accent helps, though - they can't get enough of it.

Fed me coffee and had a really good chat - niether of them had made a sale for 2 weeks and this was a big dealer. They didn't expect to be still employed at the end of the summer........

Saw a really nice 7 metre coachbuilt with 2 slide outs (one lounge, one rear bedroom)- fantastic room inside and it was on a dodge sprinter chassis with diesel engine. Tempted - why don't we have this sort of thing in UK????? they'd fly out of the showrooms


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## tel999

Hi Niq70
Yes it was my 26', sob...
Yes the 29 is for sale, sob, sob.....

To anyone looking, they are out there, mine was advertised in Autotrader, E-Bay, Race Cars Direct etc.

Hope the search goes well


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## teemyob

*Sold*



tel999 said:


> Hi Niq70
> Yes it was my 26', sob...
> Yes the 29 is for sale, sob, sob.....
> 
> To anyone looking, they are out there, mine was advertised in Autotrader, E-Bay, Race Cars Direct etc.
> 
> Hope the search goes well


Must be sold, can't find em!

Trev.


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## 101405

*rv's*

The price of fuels not put you off then, thought we are trying to save the planet , not Importing these outdated monsters, when will you learn ,its less journeys not more ,was on a site in portugal recently these things parked in the site laybys , crazy,


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## teemyob

*Re: rv's*



silversurfa said:


> The price of fuels not put you off then, thought we are trying to save the planet , not Importing these outdated monsters, when will you learn ,its less journeys not more ,was on a site in portugal recently these things parked in the site laybys , crazy,


Depends on how you look at it.

A rep driving his repmobile up and down the UK, along with his wife dropping the kids off at school, be it in the 4X4/Chelsea Tractor or Audi A2 will be doing far worse to the planet than a US RV driving say 3-5k a year!.

Trev.

P.S. I forgot, the Aformentioned family take a long-haul flight to Florida with the family along with a few "city breaks" to the likes of Barcelona, Prague etc. Meanwhile, the US RV owners are parked up saving the planet.


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## 107088

*Re: rv's*



silversurfa said:


> The price of fuels not put you off then, thought we are trying to save the planet , not Importing these outdated monsters, when will you learn ,its less journeys not more ,was on a site in portugal recently these things parked in the site laybys , crazy,


Horses for courses I say. Or of course, I could mention the flimsey cupboards, apparently dodgy wiring, doors that fall off, clutches that smoke in reverse, rusty engine bays, poor quality control, spares which take months to turn up, head rests missing after a year or more on order, Habitation doors that dont fit, all of which have been discussed on this forum over the last few months.

Its time we stopped buying these modern build disfunctional European motorhomes


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## buttons

I think that now is the time to sell you RV not buy!
You are all attempting to convince yourselves that your RV will run on air. This £90 per thousand sounds like a good bit of marketing to me. The reality is that your Gin Plaice will cost you at best £24 per hour of motorway driving and probably as much as £90 for three hrs driving between each coffee break. If money is not the problem, what about the environment. CO2 is a bad guy, your Ridicules Vehicle is belching out tonnes of it. 
Already most campsites discourage you. Public opinion will probably soon follow. They have suceeded with 4X4s. Put your ear to the ground Trev, RVs are next on the hit list.
Definitely not a good time to buy.


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## DABurleigh

Please continue this fascinating debate, where IMHO there is no wrong answer, just personal choices.

But I must confess that psychologically, for me, while many aspects of RVs appeal, part of the reason for choosing the motorhome I did was that once the capital outlay was committed, I did not want crippling running costs putting the mockers on weekly decisions on how I should use the van. I want to enjoy my assets, not rue their purchase.

Anyway, please continue, while I dive into my car to commute at over 70mpg, road fund £20 next year, insurance £117 fully comp.

Dave


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## asprn

buttons said:


> If money is not the problem, what about the environment. CO2 is a bad guy, your Ridicules Vehicle is belching out tonnes of it.


This is always a predictable course, and it's called *Relative Morality*. Here's how it goes:-

To the person with a smaller motorhome, the big ones are bad, but his smaller one is acceptable (to him).

To the person with a caravan, all motorhomes are bad, but his light caravan is acceptable (to him).

To the person who has no interest in either a motorhome or a caravan but who has three cars in the family, motorhome & caravan owners are irresponsible, uncaring people, but his family's three cars are acceptable (to him).

To the person who has one car, the family with three cars are irresponsible, uncaring people, but his own car is acceptable (to him).

And so on, until......

To the person in India who sits at the edge of the road breathing in belching fumes from lorries, buses and cars and who has no hope in his life of bettering it, the whole world is uncaring, irresponsible, and slowly causing his death.

So - for any of us to moralise about others is in my personal opinion, a fairly meaningless thing to do, unless we ourselves are prepared to apply the same judgment to ourselves as we do to other people. We could equally moralise about people who own large houses (extra unnecessary energy to heat them, etc. etc. ) but of course stand condemned ourselves for living in "ordinary" houses whilst others have no houses. Or - perhaps closer to home - feeling quite justified driving our "not-so-bad-motorhome-as-theirs" to Portugal and passing judgment whilst nevertheless having contributed to the Indian man's demise.

Etc. etc.

Relative Morality usually - although not always - stems from envy, and that's never a healthy or productive thing. Let's have a good debate on pollution - it's a huge issue affecting us all - but let's not moralise.

Dougie.


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## 107088

Dave, 

I went to Shepton, and saw in there, that the RV's werent far short of the price of a similar spec Euro vehicle, and in some cases, cheaper. Admittedly, theres a cost per mile issue, but, having said that I agree with your personnal choice comment.

After all, I though the Motorhome fraternity was supposed to be one which applauded and supported the freedom of choice for all. If we, as a forum are going to downcry each others personal choice of vehicle, the debate could be extended to the issues of wild camping, ( the place in Suffolk recently springs to mind,) and others.

Also, if logic were a factor in which vehicle we buy, then nobody could deny that most of the time, and for most owners, its a pointless purchase, as there are far more ecologically sound options for leisure time available.

I mentioned the quality issues of European motorhomes merely as an example of the benefits of American built M/H's and also to point out there are yanks on a C class which arent too different in size and performance to Eurpoeans....its just that nobody remembers them and focus is mainly on enormous, huge, spacious, well built, well equipped, A class motorhomes.............like mine for instance.

Incidentally, I admit, freely and without reservation, that if mine wasnt a business vehicle, I'd have a C class yank, rather than the 37 foot A class I got, as mines too big, and too expensive to run as a holiday vehicle for me.


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## buttons

It is people’s perception that dictates public opinion not facts. Why have Chelsea tractors become outcasts. Relative Morality Envy uncaring irresponsible hypocrisy, who knows, but their second hand value is in free fall.
RVs make Chelsea Tractors look like green machines. Is it a good time to purchase one..........?


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## 107088

Well my RV is deffo green.

Well actually it a sort of grey brown, but the engine must be green, 'cos the LEZ doesnt want to know me, and therefore I am exempt.........for ever, as far as I can make out..hooray.


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## teemyob

*Relative Morality*



buttons said:


> It is people's perception that dictates public opinion not facts. Why have Chelsea tractors become outcasts. Relative Morality Envy uncaring irresponsible hypocrisy, who knows, but their second hand value is in free fall.
> RVs make Chelsea Tractors look like green machines. Is it a good time to purchase one..........?


Relative Morality,

So as you state you are the owner of a VW T5, itself a Chelsea Tractor is it not
?

Trev.


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## buttons

bandaid said:


> ( the place in Suffolk recently springs to mind,) and others.


Thanks Dave, I was getting a bit of a phobia about people not reading my posts.
The place in Suffolk: That campaign turned out to be a bit of a damp squid didn't it. After all those promises about blockades and blacklisting by the 20000 members, what happened to all those promises?
I visited Aldeburgh last weekend, the town was bursting at the seams, the fish and chip shops were as busy as ever, the camp sites were full and the sea wall was full of cars, no motorhomes, it looks like they have all conformed to the new regulations. Must make it difficult for RVs though, I don't think that the local sites will allow them. Have the campaigners chucked in the towel or what. Additional signage has also now appeared restricting M/Hs on the lower level.


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## buttons

*Re: Relative Morality*

quote="teemyob
Relative Morality,
So as you state you are the owner of a VW T5, itself a Chelsea Tractor is it not Trev.

Not sure if you fully understand this yet 
Not a common a garden T5 Trev it is a proper California, classification very environmentally sound and safe motorhome. I think that you could be confusing it with the plumbers van. This is exactly what I mean by perception.


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## 107088

asprn said:


> buttons said:
> 
> 
> 
> If money is not the problem, what about the environment. CO2 is a bad guy, your Ridicules Vehicle is belching out tonnes of it.
> 
> 
> 
> This is always a predictable course, and it's called *Relative Morality*. Here's how it goes:-
> 
> To the person with a smaller motorhome, the big ones are bad, but his smaller one is acceptable (to him).
> 
> To the person with a caravan, all motorhomes are bad, but his light caravan is acceptable (to him).
> 
> To the person who has no interest in either a motorhome or a caravan but who has three cars in the family, motorhome & caravan owners are irresponsible, uncaring people, but his family's three cars are acceptable (to him).
> 
> To the person who has one car, the family with three cars are irresponsible, uncaring people, but his own cars is acceptable (to him).
> 
> And so on, until......
> 
> To the person in India who sits at the edge of the road breathing in belching fumes from lorries, buses and cars and who has no hope in his life or bettering it, the whole world is uncaring, irresponsible, and slowly causing his death.
> 
> So - for any of us to moralise about others is in my personal opinion, a fairly meaningless thing to do, unless we ourselves are prepared to apply the same judgment to ourselves as we do to other people. We could equally moralise about people who own large houses (extra unnecessary energy to heat them, etc. etc. ) but of course stand condemned ourselves for living in "ordinary" houses whilst others have no houses. Or - perhaps closer to home - feeling quite justified driving our "not-so-bad-motorhome-as-theirs" to Portugal and passing judgment whilst nevertheless having contributed to the Indian man's demise.
> 
> Etc. etc.
> 
> Relative Morality usually - although not always - stems from envy, and that's never a healthy or productive thing. Let's have a good debate on pollution - it's a huge issue affecting us all - but let's not moralise.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

Stunning post Dougie,

succinct, pertinent, and understandable.........


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## buttons

bandaid said:


> Stunning post Dougie, succinct, pertinent, and understandable.........


Must agree with that, great little yarn, I did hear one like it before, "he had followers also".

I think that a creative writing tutor might say that the last sentence says it all, do away with the rest. But who am I to judge. 
It was a good read though as always.


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## ianhibs

Can anyone join this debate?

I'd just like to make the point that the running cost issue may be overstated as in 15 months of motoring around Europe (10 countries) I have NEVER seen an RV on the road.

Yes, I've spotted them on a few campsites parked there for months at a time so they must have driven there (probably using pay motorways) but I must have missed them.

Value for money? You cant argue with that. Furthermore they are probably the best choice for fulltimers but as for wandering around the countryside IMHO forget it as so many of the aires and campsites just can't accomodate them.

Perhaps they should be viewed as Mobile Homes with the accent on mobile.

Ian


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## 107088

Its true that mine is an absolute pig to get round the country roads in the Uk.

Its also true that there are more than 1 type of RV. The US doesnt differentiate between A class, C class and van conversions, they're all called RV's.

So, even if the cost of running my A class is higher than the running costs of a European C class, given the cost differential on purchase compared to an equivilent spec Euro- A Class, then I have a few quid to spare. However, a C class say 28 feet long from the States, will probably give pretty much similar fuel costs as that of a similar size European. Also, it must be said, I havent read any horror stories about the build quality of a Yank.

Next, the number of campsites which accept my vehicle is surpirsingly high, I have to choose carefully, but, no more so than if I were choosing a campsite to stay in anyway. 

The real problem I have with this thread is of my own doing, and that is I am simply trying to justify my RV purchase to others, when in reality, I shouldnt have to. Wierdly, theres a thread on the forum, in which as part of the chat, I suggested that with the other retriction desired by motorhomers, i.e.

No Kids,
No Generators.
No Pets,
No elelctric, as the others have solar,

It wouldnt be long before some posters try to dictate what type of motorhomes other should buy. And.............bless my soul, I get the impression that this is it.

Hope not.


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## 103356

buttons said:


> I think that now is the time to sell you RV not buy!
> You are all attempting to convince yourselves that your RV will run on air. If money is not the problem, what about the environment. *CO2 is a bad guy, your Ridicules Vehicle is belching out tonnes of it.* RVs are next on the hit list.


I wonder sometimes at the naivety of some commentators. If you removed from the roads every single RV in the UK, the effect that would have on Climate Change is so infintesimally small, that it doesn't even appear on the radar, no matter what the resolution. But of course, what they're complaining about is actually the RELATIVE difference in consumption and CO2 emissions between an RV and a smaller MH, which on a global scale is so incredibly small it makes a Higgs BOSON look like a football :roll: . If people want to save money by buying a MH with a better fuel consumption then good luck to them, but please don't try to claim that it is going to make any difference to the planet if I, in the UK, use my RV or not. It's barking, and I really despair when people like politicians claim they are "Green". They might as well be Pink for all their actual impact. When China, India and the US stop burning coal, petrol and diesel, then I might perhaps rethink, but until then..........


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## asprn

buttons said:


> I think that a creative writing tutor might say that the last sentence says it all, do away with the rest


Shucks. You gotta set the scene though, surely. :roll:

I discussed this thread with my sister today who's a psychotherapist, as it has challenged me somewhat with regards to owning my RV. I say "challenged" in the sense of causing me to think, which I've always felt is a jolly useful thing to do (usually easier to do about other people, but I won't start that again...), not in the sense of causing me guilt (which I've also found is usually easier to project onto other people, and I promised I wouldn't start that again either, so I won't....).

ANYWAY - she made the therapist's observation that Taking The Moral High Ground is almost inevitably down to envy, at which point I cheered, as I had used that word this morning here. So, I have concluded that the view I had this morning stands up to scrutiny (we're all accountable for our own carbon footprints, and it takes effort and possibly some courage to look honestly at our own lifestyles, rather than other peoples).

But I've promised twice now not to start that again, so I won't. And on the basis that the last sentence is the most important, I've brought two White Puddings back from Edinburgh, and I'm going to have one for my tea. 

Dougie.


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## SpeedyDux

Hi everyone,

I don’t have a problem with RVs – there aren’t that many on the roads. If I was full-timing or competing in motor sport I would have one. To be fair, I’ve always had a fascination with RVs and if my circumstances change to enable me to take trips lasting months at a time, I could see myself owning one. 

I wouldn’t presume to say what vehicle any MHer ought to have or not have. It’s a lifestyle choice. I do wonder though at the increasing number of European tag axle MHs in the up to 5 tonne range whose owners seem to need a vast garage to bring the kitchen sink and half the contents of their garden shed along on a trip. It’s as if they have a morbid fear of entering a Bermuda Triangle across the channel where all the shops have disappeared, when in reality the French (for example) seem to have a better range of goods than any supermarket in the UK, at cheaper prices. Carrefour or Auchan will provide, if you need anything. Even Marmite or Branston pickle!

You could say that the Westy Calif isn’t a real “Motorhome” in the same way that an RV that you can live in all year round is. I still love it because it is a MPV in the true sense – a Multi-Purpose Vehicle that has few restrictions on where it can go, puts a smile on my face whenever I drive it, and is our mobile holiday accommodation for the two of us. It’s the Swiss Army knife of campervans, full of handy things that fold away.

If I were to start “Taking The Moral High Ground” it would be against the Chelsea Tractor types. No, I don’t envy them. I think their transport needs could easily be met by something that weighs half as much and is less of a hazard to the rest of us road users, as well as the planet. Many of them are also appallingly bad drivers. The way forward is to force car manufacturers to remove every feature that makes the 4x4 or SUV driver feel invulnerable. Turn them back into utility vehicles for farmers. End of rant.

SD


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## buttons

asprn said:


> Shucks. You gotta set the scene though, surely. :roll:
> 
> I discussed this thread with my sister today who's a psychotherapist, as it has challenged me somewhat with regards to owning my RV. I say "challenged" in the sense of causing me to think, which I've always felt is a jolly useful thing to do (usually easier to do about other people, but I won't start that again...), not in the sense of causing me guilt (which I've also found is usually easier to project onto other people, and I promised I wouldn't start that again either, so I won't....).
> 
> ANYWAY - she made the therapist's observation that Taking The Moral High Ground is almost inevitably down to envy, at which point I cheered, as I had used that word this morning here. So, I have concluded that the view I had this morning stands up to scrutiny (we're all accountable for our own carbon footprints, and it takes effort and possibly some courage to look honestly at our own lifestyles, rather than other peoples).
> 
> But I've promised twice now not to start that again, so I won't. And on the basis that the last sentence is the most important, I've brought two White Puddings back from Edinburgh, and I'm going to have one for my tea.
> 
> Dougie.


The last thing that I want is to appear Sycophantic but you do have a talent, humour too excellent. Makes me feel totally inadequate.


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## teemyob

*Re: Relative Morality*



buttons said:


> quote="teemyob
> Relative Morality,
> So as you state you are the owner of a VW T5, itself a Chelsea Tractor is it not Trev.
> 
> Not sure if you fully understand this yet
> Not a common a garden T5 Trev it is a proper California, classification very environmentally sound and safe motorhome. I think that you could be confusing it with the plumbers van. This is exactly what I mean by perception.


Hello Buttons,

Yes, I am sure and yes I understand.

I am on my second VW T5 window van, eight seats. So you can call it a posh plumbers van.

Classification.

Yes the T5 VW Calafornia is heavier than some Chelsea Tractors, thirstier than certain ones and indeed just as poluting as many of them.

If you have a 2.5 Manual then it is in the F catagory for labeling as it is just under the 225. If it is an Auto then it will fall into the G catagory as it is up there with all the BIG chelsea Tractors. If it is a 4Motion, well way up there.

Unless your one of those who have managed to convince the DVLA otherwise. That is, paid the initial road fund and then re-classified it as a motorhome.

More info below....

VW California (Extremely Posh Plumbers Van) Co2 Info Here < Click and select engine/transmission

Anyone who cannot be bothered can see the VW California TipTronic, 4 Motion and 174 DPF Energy Label Below.










Trev :wink:


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## tel999

A few thoughts:
I think the farthest town from the coast is 70 miles away.
The average family is 2 adults and 2 children.
An RV will do 10 to 13 MPG on eco friendly LPG 17 to 22 MPG.
Tax is I think £125 per annum
Insurance £400.

Take our family away to the coast with 2 friends to play with the children and you will cover 150 mls approx, say 15 gallons @ £5-00 per gallon = £75-00

14 Nights on a good quality site @ £30-00 per night 
£420-00

So for £490-00 you have 6 people in a quality site enjoying 5* luxury.

Compare that with taking the same family to Spain on a package deal.
Not only will you save fiscally, but you will also be doing your bit to cut back on carbon emissions.

Just a thought.
Regards
Tel


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## SpeedyDux

Well now Trev,

As Buttons seem to have gone to bed, I thought I should appear in defence of the VW California. Pro Bono, like. :wink:

I reckon the T5 Calif stats you kindly linked compare quite favourably against a fashionable Chelsea Tractor with similar dimensions and weight, like (say) the Land Rover Range Rover Sport - even the 2.7 TDV6 diesel one:

http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/ve...d-specifications/technical-specifications.htm

(sorry, I can't do links)

As for the supercharged V8 Range Rover Sport , the fuel consumption is obviously worse than many RVs! Disgraceful :!:

Cheers,

SD


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## teemyob

*SD*



SpeedyDux said:


> Well now Trev,
> 
> As Buttons seem to have gone to bed, I thought I should appear in defence of the VW California. Pro Bono, like. :wink:
> 
> I reckon the T5 Calif stats you kindly linked compare quite favourably against a fashionable Chelsea Tractor with similar dimensions and weight, like (say) the Land Rover Range Rover Sport - even the 2.7 TDV6 diesel one:
> 
> http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/ve...d-specifications/technical-specifications.htm
> 
> (sorry, I can't do links)
> 
> As for the supercharged V8 Range Rover Sport , the fuel consumption is obviously worse than many RVs! Disgraceful :!:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> SD


Hello SD,

Was just trying to point out, people in glass houses!.

I was talking to a customer the other day who was complaining that his Honda 2.4 accord was going to be costing him £400 a year in road tax. He remarked that "those motorhomes you lot have must spew out some crap, especially those yank jobbies and yet you are all paying next bugger all in road tax".

It was then that I pointed out that, us Motorhomers tend not to travel 40,000 p.a. miles in them like he does in his not particularly enviromently sound Honda.

Enough Said.

Trev


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## teemyob

*Ooutlandish*

Cheap Chelsea Tractor (the sort suitable for a Plumber's Wife (sorry Partner)).

Capable of over 50mpg and as low as 174 g/km Co2


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## teemyob

*Audi Do*

Posh Plumbers Chelsea Tractor

Audi Q7 V12 6 litre TDi 500bhp 1000Nm

Claimed Average Touring MPG of around 25 MPG


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## G2EWS

Hi Everyone,

I have really enjoyed this thread and Dougie your input is superb, well done!

It really amazes me that some get so in your face about what you drive. So I own an RV, err so what, does it really bother you?

So I drive a Land Rover err so what. As it happens and it is none of your business but I will tell you anyway, I need a 4 x 4 and I need a comfortable one. Sometimes leaving at 06:00 and driving 400 miles along with surveys in the middle of a field. So it does 25 mpg, err so what? Surely that is my business.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with an European MH. I have been thinking of towing one as my day vehicle. Just a bit worried about the running costs for repairs :lol: 

Heavens above, has anyone seen the time, best I go to bed!

Regards

Chris


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## sallytrafic

Its horses for courses:

You wouldn't want to go round the coast of UK on the tiniest of roads in an RV (see here for blog >click< ) or travel to Norway's North Cape (although it could be done)

On the other hand its difficult to socialise in a small PVC and even with only us two and two dogs if you are unable to spread outside of the van because of rain I can assure you after a week it seems very crowded. No strike that, after a few hours it seems very crowded. We are always pleased to see an RV on a rally as I've yet to meet an RV owner who is less than a generous host. 

Also it seems to take us longer and longer to set up and leave a site because of the extras we carry like a tent, BBQ, extra dog food, extra whisky etc. Also for some trips we take a camping trailer.

So when I've got rid of my need to travel to places on the edge of the map perhaps I'll go large in an RV or perhaps I'll simplify and downsize who knows all you can be sure of is that there will be a compromise somewhere along the way and my solution won't be everyone's cup of tea.


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## DABurleigh

Yup, a motorhome is the epitome of compromise and the balanced choice is a very personal one.

Dave


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## teemyob

G2EWS said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have really enjoyed this thread and Dougie your input is superb, well done!
> 
> It really amazes me that some get so in your face about what you drive. So I own an RV, err so what, does it really bother you?
> 
> So I drive a Land Rover err so what. As it happens and it is none of your business but I will tell you anyway, I need a 4 x 4 and I need a comfortable one. Sometimes leaving at 06:00 and driving 400 miles along with surveys in the middle of a field. So it does 25 mpg, err so what? Surely that is my business.
> 
> Anyway, there is nothing wrong with an European MH. I have been thinking of towing one as my day vehicle. Just a bit worried about the running costs for repairs :lol:
> 
> Heavens above, has anyone seen the time, best I go to bed!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris


erm ehm (Cough)


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## buttons

*Re: Relative Morality*



teemyob said:


> Unless you're one of those who have managed to convince the DVLA otherwise. That is, paid the initial road fund and then re-classified it as a motorhome.


Sorry Trev but I'm not sure what all this has got to do with the original post but I will bring you up to speed should you decide to take the plunge yourself. The California is "don't quote me" but I think that it is the only complete motorhome designed and manufactured for that purpose of being a motorhome. Not to be confused with similar conversions to what is a van or a chassis base. If this cannot be classified for VED purposes as a motorhome then what can. I think that the criteria requires that the first registration is post conversion as is with most motorhomes. Is this where you are getting confused.


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## aultymer

> The California is "don't quote me" but I think that it is the only complete motorhome designed and manufactured for that purpose of being a motorhome.


I cannot find the record of the VW t5 being ENCAP tested as a motothome as you claimed in a previous thread.
Slightly 'Off topic' but important to establish we are talking about the same vehicle.


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## buttons

SpeedyDux said:


> Well now Trev,
> As Buttons seem to have gone to bed, I thought I should appear in defence of the VW California. Pro Bono, like. :wink:
> SD


I did have an early night, decorating the lounge takes it out of you.
Amazing what detail is produced on this purpose built motorhome no wonder it passes all present and future LEZ requirement for London. Very clean and the efficiency is second to none. I am on my second one now and have a spread sheet of all usage, I won't share it with you as it could cause a bit of envy. "we don't want to do that do we".
As an exercise I have been doing a bit of surfing in an attempt to find similar detail on a well known Tag axel. Not an easy exercise. No wander the LEZ authority are having such difficulty identifying polluters from none polluters.


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## aultymer

Is that a bulls**t tank I see?


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## buttons

aultymer said:


> Is that a bulls**t tank I see?


Sorry aultymer I must be having an off day, I didn't understand that.


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## buttons

*Re: SD*



teemyob said:


> I was talking to a customer the other day who was complaining that his Honda 2.4 accord was going to be costing him £400 a year in road tax. He remarked that "those motorhomes you lot have must spew out some crap, especially those yank jobbies and yet you are all paying next bugger all in road tax".
> Enough Said.Trev


I draw your attention to something that I said earlier Trev, It is people's perception that caused the demise of the Chelsea Tractor as will I'm sure make the RV as unpopular in the future. I think that your customer summarised that fairly well.
Definitely Not a good time to buy an RV.


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## teemyob

*T5*



buttons said:


> SpeedyDux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now Trev,
> As Buttons seem to have gone to bed, I thought I should appear in defence of the VW California. Pro Bono, like. :wink:
> SD
> 
> 
> 
> I did have an early night, decorating the lounge takes it out of you.
> Amazing what detail is produced on this purpose built motorhome no wonder it passes all present and future LEZ requirement for London. Very clean and the efficiency is second to none. I am on my second one now and have a spread sheet of all usage, I won't share it with you as it could cause a bit of envy. "we don't want to do that do we".
> As an exercise I have been doing a bit of surfing in an attempt to find similar detail on a well known Tag axel. Not an easy exercise. No wander the LEZ authority are having such difficulty identifying polluters from none polluters.
Click to expand...

Yes please, I would be very interested in seeing the spreadsheet of useage. Only for personal reasons and would not publish it.

So, if you want I can let you have my email address.

Trev.


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## buttons

*Re: T5*



teemyob said:


> Yes please, I would be very interested in seeing the spreadsheet of useage. Only for personal reasons and would not publish it.
> So, if you want I can let you have my email address.
> Trev.


Trevor
I am off to the U.S for three weeks from Wednesday, I wont have a chance before I go but will send you a link on my return. 
I guess this is for your ongoing saga with vw re the MPG 
Buttons


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## billym

quote


....So if you are thinking of importing now is the time, however, with fuel prices still rising how long will it be until the bottom falls out the UK RV Market? ...........



That depends on whether you want to make a profit on your purchase or just want to enjoy your life on earth. But I guess September 2009 is optimum ! )


teenymob........... I got that cough as well.
oldtimer.........I saw that tank too !


( and what is that all about VWt5 ? )


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## teemyob

*Re: T5*



buttons said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes please, I would be very interested in seeing the spreadsheet of useage. Only for personal reasons and would not publish it.
> So, if you want I can let you have my email address.
> Trev.
> 
> 
> 
> Trevor
> I am off to the U.S for three weeks from Wednesday, I wont have a chance before I go but will send you a link on my return.
> I guess this is for your ongoing saga with vw re the MPG
> Buttons
Click to expand...

Oh yes.

As I mentioned last time they had the van for 8 weeks and gave it me back same as ever. Loads of problems, faulty gearchange and reversing sensors.

I have yet another VW T5 loan van on my drive, as it has gone back for a gearbox repair and sensors.

Trev.


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## buttons

*Re: T5*



teemyob said:


> Oh yes.
> As I mentioned last time they had the van for 8 weeks and gave it me back same as ever. Loads of problems, faulty gearchange and reversing sensors.
> I have yet another VW T5 loan van on my drive, as it has gone back for a gearbox repair and sensors.
> 
> Trev.


The only thing that I can offer to console you Trev is to say that VW are probably one of the most understanding of manufactures and with a 3 year all singing warrantee, it does give you a chance to get that Friday night production back to its former glory. This doesn't cover the inconvenience but I find that they will back their brand and are happy to please, and will loan you a vehicle for the repair.
I've had a few new vehicles over the years but I find that VW probably come out tops for customer service.........
((((("so thats not your experience with them then :x "))))))


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## buttons

billym said:


> quote
> teenymob........... I got that cough as well.
> oldtimer.........I saw that tank too !
> ( and what is that all about VWt5 ? )


Sorry billym I think that the whistle has gone, the playground is empty...


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## billym

quote
Sorry billym I think that the whistle has gone, the playground is empty..



You mean playtime's finished ? No chance.


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## G2EWS

Playtime never finishes when you are in your motorhome! 

Yee hah, let the party begin :lol: 

Chris


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## aultymer

Playtime again - now where did I put those ENCAP results?


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## buttons

aultymer said:


> Playtime again - now where did I put those ENCAP results?


My apologies aultymer, I have missed your input, you must have been sitting at the back of the class without your hand up, however, I am glad to see a motor homer with an interest in safety, the responce to some of the earlier post would suggest that the layout and colour are far more important than the safety of passengers. The odd flying microwave or unhinged door is not on the radar of some new owners it would appear. One post was even complaining about the new law regarding compulsory fitting of rear seat belts some would sooner have familes travel unbelted in wooden box seats with lose covers. 
Euro EnCap is a good generic way of comparing the safety features of one manufacture against another, I think that this is now compulsory for cars but not sure about motorhomes. "Perhaps someone with more information could comment on this." The results of this testing will then give the potential buyers some idea of how safe any model is, in a front and side impact. As you are aware this does have a significant effect on car sales figures, but not motorhomes, I wonder why this is.
I have attached a youtube link of such a test with the caravelle window based t5. This is the exact same model as the California, all interior and exterior fixtures are generic throughout. Very impressive isn't it. Not even a window broken, all doors intact and the people area appears to be sound and intact

The California has a number of addition safety features such as side skirt air bags and roof reinforcement that will give additional protection, the furniture is all light aluminium with inside hung sliding doors for safety, all securely fitted to the structure giving additional strength , the rear seat rails are from the carevelle, the fridge freezer is top opening, even the fire extinguisher is stowed so as to keep it impact safe. 
All this is only possible because the California is designed and built from scratch by this German car giant Volkswagen. Very impressive isn't it. 



If you are interested aultymer, youtube also has a Hymer test, only from the front though, perhaps you might be able to find the side impact part. Not been able to find it myself.!!!!!
Please let me know if you want any more info.
Buttons


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