# How long does a clutch last?



## petepub (Oct 28, 2008)

I have a 9 month old M/H which has a Peugeot 3ltr engine and clutch.
It has 6000 miles on the clock. The clutch went while I am on holiday in Spain the dealer of which is in Spain has fitted a new clutch and has told me that it is wear and tear so I have to pay 575euros as wear and tear does not come under warranty work.
How the bloody hell can you burn a clutch out in 6000 miles bearing in mind that at least 50% if not more has been on a motorway so you do not even use the clutch.
Before you ask I have been in touch with my dealer, Swift and Peugeot all any off them can say is sorry. Sorry does not make it right! No one gives a dam that they have ruined my holiday the clutch took a week to repair so we went back to the UK for a week. Since the new clutch has been fitted it still smells of burning when I have to use the clutch say at a toll booth when you stop and pull away.
Has anyone else had a problem similar to this, if so replies would be welcome. 

         

Thanks Peter


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Oh goodness am so sorry for your problems. It is well documented that there are reversing problems with these vehicles although the manufacturers continue to play cat and mouse with their poor customers. Although as you mentioned problems going forwards maybe this is different. There is a large thread running here and on other websites with much detail about the problems, its called Fiat Judder. So the upshot is you are not alone. 
Am afraid it may be necessary to take court action as I would imagine (although not being a mechanic) that a clutch should not go after that length of time and especially as the replacement is just as bad.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

11 years and 27000 miles in Merc Scout - original clutch.

Vauxhall astra 11 years and 90000 miles - original clutch. (And woman driver on multidrop deliveries!)

Landrover Discovery 11 years, replacement clutch after 2 years when engine mods were done as original clutch could not handle the increased torque. Replacement clutch military version fitted and still OK after 9 years when vehicle traded in.

Do you do lots of yards in reverse?

C.


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

CliveMott said:


> (And woman driver on multidrop deliveries!)


Ouch :lol:

Derek


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Citroen dispatch 6 years old 150.000 miles only servicing and tyres.
Scudo 18 months old carries aprox three quarters of a ton most trips 32,000 miles front tyres at 31,000 miles Last nissan van 190,000miles in 5 years just tyres.

i cannot remember ever having a clutch replaced in over 40 vehicles that i have owned in the last 41 years.


DAve p


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*How long does a clutch last*

I would get some one competent ( and I don't mean a buddy who is not a skilled motor technician)to check your vehicles clutch operation,he or she will know instantly if it's a actual clutch assembly problem or has oil on it from the engine or gearbox,if the person cannot find a problem , get him to go on a road test with you driving just see see how you drive ( this is by no means meant to say you are a bad driver ) I've known a person to burn out a clutch in 3000 miles ,you have to remember the lining on the clutch centre plate is at a max. of about 1.5 to 2 mm at new ,even touching the clutch pedal lightly when driving along wears the clutch, Our motto in the motor trade was " Less time foot on clutch saves you hellever much.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

petepub said:


> Since the new clutch has been fitted it still smells of burning when I have to use the clutch say at a toll booth when you stop and pull away.
> Thanks Peter


When pulling away, try just letting the clutch out until it engages fully and the van starts to move, then apply accelerator.

Peter


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Last time I change a clutch was 1978 year before my wedding, Hillman Avenger, did it myself, aligned correctly with the correct tool, oh the good old days.

I have had 15 cars since then, rep mobiles high mileage all of them not once with a clutch problem, it just doesn't seem to happen anymore


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I had a new VW Golf TDI in 2005, by 2006 and only 30,000 miles it had 3 new clutches fitted along with a new fly wheel on the second and third time. Each one was ruined by oil from the dual mass fly wheel. The car them went on to cover another 100,000 miles on the 3rd clutch & fly wheel no problem and was still fine when sold at 130,000 miles

I now have a 2009 VW Passat TDI which has done 15,000 miles in 3 months and it has been fine.

You just simply can not tell if a clutch is going to let you down.

It is posable the OP could have a problem with the dual mass fly wheel which has ruined the first clutch and possible going to do it again if they have not changed it, just a though as he has a smell of oil.


Richard...


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Don't you know according to FIAT there is no problem with the 3litre models!!! watch out for the pigs!!!


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

bigfoot said:


> Don't you know according to FIAT there is no problem with the 3litre models!!! watch out for the pigs!!!


The vast majority of any clutch failure with any vehicle at low mileage is usually down to driving technique - usually unappreciated by the driver.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

time-traveller said:


> bigfoot said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you know according to FIAT there is no problem with the 3litre models!!! watch out for the pigs!!!
> ...


In 50 years of driving we have never had a a clutch fail

See your UK base vehicle dealer ASAP

Wups


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

bigfoot said:


> Don't you know according to FIAT there is no problem with the 3litre models!!! watch out for the pigs!!!


Yeah-thats exactly what them jokers told me, only I know different. 8)

steve


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

time-traveller said:


> bigfoot said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you know according to FIAT there is no problem with the 3litre models!!! watch out for the pigs!!!
> ...


Not wishing to become embroiled in a slanging match. Any failure it is not entirely due to driver technique,maybe inexperienced drivers may have problems. But my last van was a coachbuilt on an early Fiat Ducato 2.5td and it never gave a moments trouble. My new vehicles clutch went after barely 200 miles in the same location I used to take the Hymer,which could under take the manoevure virtually on tickover. I have driven a variety of vehicles including crash boxes and HGVs and I have never experienced such a diabolical transmission.


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## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

It do think it will be difficult to prove, let's be honest - you KNOW what the dealer will say to get out of it - If you have a good dealer then they may be helpful, if not, you may be able to push for at least a partial refund on costs.

The clutches are much harder compund nowadays that they used to be, which is often why you end up rplacing flywheels as well - I would have reasonably expected it to last considerably longer - having said that, we had one on our fleet that popped it's gearbox at 6k, hence we no longer use them.


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

bigfoot said:


> time-traveller said:
> 
> 
> > bigfoot said:
> ...


That's why I wrote _'the vast majority' _and not '_entirely_' :roll: 
And I'm NOT implying that the OP's driving is at fault here - just stating a fact of life. But surely we all know that anyone can get into a new vehicle and 'bu66er up' the clutch within half a mile if you put your mind to it - or perhaps even if you _don't_ put your mind to it 

On another note - The repairer said the clutch failed because of 'wear' - that's quite different to 'broken'.

And on yet another note - as a matter of interest, Bigfoot, was your 200-miles clutch failure accepted under warranty? Or considered 'wear'?


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Clutches and gearboxes are so durable nowadays. The apparent Fiat failures at low mileage should be a concern. 

Not wishing to criticise anyone on this forum, but as a passenger it makes me wince if I see the driver using the clutch pedal as a footrest or resting their left hand on the gearknob mile after mile. 


SD


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

All the dealers will tell you that it's down to your driving. Peter at Johncross is right thats what I did when I had the same unit, but try doing that on an incline, no chance , you need revs or you'll stall, and that is where the problem lies the clutch is just not man enough for the job. Either that or there is an awful lot of bad motor home drivers around!. Fiat won't accept that there's a problem, just like BMW won't accept they have a problem with some of there alloys. If either accept a problem they are on a recall and that cost a lot of money, so it easier for them to weather the storm and put two finger up to their customers. I have seen in before remember Vauxhall and their cavalier. 

Wobby


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

wobby said:


> All the dealers will tell you that it's down to your driving. Peter at Johncross is right thats what I did when I had the same unit, but try doing that on an incline, no chance , you need revs or you'll stall, and that is where the problem lies the clutch is just not man enough for the job. Either that or there is an awful lot of bad motor home drivers around!. Fiat won't accept that there's a problem, just like BMW won't accept they have a problem with some of there alloys. If either accept a problem they are on a recall and that cost a lot of money, so it easier for them to weather the storm and put two finger up to their customers. I have seen in before remember Vauxhall and their cavalier.
> 
> Wobby


I see what you're saying, Wobby. It's not really the clutch that's the problem - it's the gearbox ratio that MAKES you have to slip the clutch? Unavoidable driver technique, then? 

I don't know anything about BMW and their alloys (wheels?) or Vauxhall and their Cavalier so I can't 'remember' I'm afraid.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I had two Honda CR-V's which covered over 80,000 miles each in 3 years with a large proportion of that towing a caravan. I never had any clutch problems, in fact I had no problems at all from either of them.

Going back to my Army days we had Landrovers, Bedford 3 tonners and Austin k9's. We used to abuse them terribly as we had to access woods etc and the clutches were very reliable.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Slightly off topic.having been in motor trade all my working life,beats me why people want a manual Gearbox .I know I pay a little extra for fuel ,but keep putting in and out of gear !!!!!!!!!! with all the gadgets to help control a vehicle I find auto's great and are easy to get used too.


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

Last week I met a couple who got 1600 miles from a clutch on a 3litre 2009 Swift. The mileage was mainly from Lowdams in the UK to Alicante Spain. Most on motorway so not a lot of stopping and starting. But when they parked outside their daughters house inland from Benidorm and wanted to set off again the clutch flew apart. It has cost them 1200euros for recovery and repair which they hope to get back from Fiat. I have seen the clutch plate which was the only item the garage would give back to them and it appeared to have oil on it. I instantly thought the garage must have fitted a recon pressure plate etc. otherwise why not give them that as well. They were a Fiat dealer. These motors do look nice but obviously there is a problem. No doubt about that as too many people have migrated from 2.8 Fiats to the new ones and only now are having these problems. If I was a manufacturer I would be really having a go at Fiat because its simply not good enough. I would also be looking hard for another base vehicle


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

As I discussed on this forum a few weeks ago my clutch went on my 2006 Peugeot at 13000 miles. 8O I do appreciate bad driving can ruin a clutch very quickly. Having towed for 20 years and been a professional driver for 30 I would hope that my problem was not down to bad driving with the left foot. All that we read on this forum is clutch problems and Fiat and Peugeot. This leads me with my very simple mind to put two and two together and come up with crap clutches. It may be interesting to see over the next 2 years how many posts we see with regards to my clutch has burnt out around 10 to 15000 miles. Just a thought.


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## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

tony50 said:


> Slightly off topic.having been in motor trade all my working life,beats me why people want a manual Gearbox .I know I pay a little extra for fuel ,but keep putting in and out of gear !!!!!!!!!! with all the gadgets to help control a vehicle I find auto's great and are easy to get used too.


The british have this fear about automatics - I have no idea why, I have converted many people to autos!

Actually the recent one was an old lady or screamed her engine along like they do - nbow on auto, she loves it and wonders why she always avoided them!


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

time-traveller said:


> wobby said:
> 
> 
> > All the dealers will tell you that it's down to your driving. Peter at Johncross is right thats what I did when I had the same unit, but try doing that on an incline, no chance , you need revs or you'll stall, and that is where the problem lies the clutch is just not man enough for the job. Either that or there is an awful lot of bad motor home drivers around!. Fiat won't accept that there's a problem, just like BMW won't accept they have a problem with some of there alloys. If either accept a problem they are on a recall and that cost a lot of money, so it easier for them to weather the storm and put two finger up to their customers. I have seen in before remember Vauxhall and their cavalier.
> ...


The BMW alloy fault was on the Ann Robinson consumer show last night. Perhaps your a bit young to remember the "cavalier" fault but those in the motor trade will. I digress though, I don't think first gear on the Fiat is to high, though I do think reverse is, in my humble opinion there is a fault with the clutch. Thankfully I don't have the problem now as my new van is on a Merc auto and it runs like a dream, should have gone for the auto in the first place. It is a shame though because the fiat engine is as smooth as silk. If they would only fix the clutch it would be a fantastic base vehicle, ever bit as good as the Merc.

Wobby


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Clutch (and brake) linings can no longer contain Asbestos and consequently don't last as long as they used to.

Until an effective (and safe) equivalent to Asbestos can be found things won't improve.

PS I drive 2 automatics.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*How long does a clutch last ?*

Sorry Wobby I don't think most people in the motor trade would agree that the Fiat Engine is as good as the Merc. It may be better on fuel economy.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I agrre with Tony

I have had a Fiat base and a Merc base. No contest at all Merc every time (economy on the Merc is only a fraction down on the Fiat with an extra 500Kg MAM as well)


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Err boys I think this topic was about Peugeot and the time a clutch should operate for not Mercs and Fiats which is best. :wink:


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

grumpyman said:


> Err boys I think this topic was about Peugeot and the time a clutch should operate for not Mercs and Fiats which is best. :wink:


But that Peugeot is a Fiat.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Stanner said:


> grumpyman said:
> 
> 
> > Err boys I think this topic was about Peugeot and the time a clutch should operate for not Mercs and Fiats which is best. :wink:
> ...


Exactly my thoughts!


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

oK that Fiat is a Peugeot whatever.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Now if that Fiat had been a Ford .Ford would have solved the problem of clutches / gearboxes long ago !! As they did when they dropped some goolies when the Sierra came out , boy did they move quick.


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## Dorsetdon (Jun 2, 2009)

Not quite the same vehicle but I had a Maserati Coupe a couple of years ago. The car had the F1 flippy paddle things (Clarkson's words) although it was a manual. The warning lights/computer suggested the clutch had gone at 8000 miles. I could not belivive it as it would cost £2500 to replace it. The garage were adamant that it needed replacing and said that this was usual. I complained to the MD of Ferrari UK, (Maserati owned by Ferrari then) who fortunately agreed to replace it FOC. 
When they renewed the clutch they found that it was only 15% worn and that a sensor had given wrong readings!
To think that I could have spent £2500 for a sensor!

I


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## petepub (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for your replies, I think that I am a pretty good driver (but dont we all) I have driven a lot of miles when I was working in many different forms of transport. 
If you look at the white van man (not all bad) they abuse the clutch as well as the engine but they still keep going?


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## petepub (Oct 28, 2008)

*how long should a clutch last*

Anyone else out there had any problems with a PEUGEOT clutch?
Thanks Peter


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> Anyone else out there had any problems with a PEUGEOT clutch?


Perhaps it's time for a new thread for "X2/50 3litre owners with clutch problems" followed by a combined/consolidated action ?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: how long should a clutch last*



petepub said:


> Anyone else out there had any problems with a PEUGEOT clutch?
> Thanks Peter


 :? How does a Peugeot clutch differ from a Fiat one? :?


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## petepub (Oct 28, 2008)

Antone else had problems with there Clutch?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Petepub, quite a few 3lt Fiat owners have had similar problems, myself included. As already stated the Peugeot is a Fiat wearing a different badge. There is a huge thread on the x250 clutch problem you will find others owners there, although if will be hard to do as the thread is huge. 

Mine failed at 15,000 miles when just over a year old, Fiat replaced it under warranty but still have not fixed the underlying problem, as detailed, in depth in that other thread. 

As to how long a clutch should last, I would think average 70 to 80,000 miles. The worst I have had was 15 on this van and the best 140,000 on a Jeep which rotted away with all the mechanicals still working very well, Alan.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

A modern clutch should last almost forever if the driver is good unless

Its a Fiat / Peugeot with that reversing problem
or
Its an automated clutch which will put the clutch in perpetual "slip" mode under certain manouvering situations.

I have recently been converted to full automatics with our latest tardis. It would not have been my choice, but next time it probably will be!

C.


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