# Insulation



## Gereshom (Jul 7, 2007)

I have a Swift Sundance and would like any knowledge on extra floor insulation tips.

In addition pipe lagging from fresh water tank to the pump.

Thanks in advance!

Gereshom


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Hello!

No resolution at the meeting then?

For tanks you could use heaters along with insualtion to prevent freezing. Available from Cak Tanks.

For the floor, thick carpet. As there is no double floor underfloor heating may not be an option. Unless you could fit the heating, bond some insulation to it and then add a second underfloor?.

Trev.


----------



## Gereshom (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Trev!

Nothing really came out of the meeting but I'm glad for my sake I gave it a good try!

I'm interested in bonding insulation to the underneath. When you get a moment could you tell me what I need and how to do it?

I've got the CAK catalogue.

Enjoy the Bank Holiday weekend!

Gereshom


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

This might be utter "rowlocks" Gereshom, but there is a spray-on foam insulation that is used in the trade for insulating the underside of the roof tiles in the loft.

It bonds the tiles so they don't blow off the roof in a gale, and is also a very good insulator. Don't know any more, but it could be worth investigating.

Also some of the silvered sheets of insulation from the likes of B&Q are quite thins, but are claimed to have insulating properties equivalent to an inch or more of expanded polystyrene. They would be "wrappable" or could be fixed to the wooden floor with big staples or nails through a small washer.

Hope this helps a bit

Dave


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi

During the really cold weather in December and January, the floor on my van felt cold - it blooming well should be, it was -14 outside! The floors of motorhomes are already insulated, so a thick carpet might help, or, insulating material similar to the stuff you might put behind a radiator at home. 

The cab area is the weak spot and for this external silver screens are a must - even in a grade three, German built, twin floored van. Two or three other MHF'ers came up with a splendid idea to keep the cab area warm. Basically a kitchen kick board heater that uses just 400w of power and this is mounted under the drivers seat, providing gentle warmth to the cab area. However, I suggest you check and double check the installation of such appliances in a motorhome. I have done this and it is great, but as I said, check that you are happy with a heater under your seat. 

You can also get floor insulation material for the cab area from specialist firms. 

In respect of the water....was the water frozen in the tank, or the pipe? As far as I am aware, the fresh water pipes are internal on a Sundance. If the fresh water pipes are in a cupboard, it was probably blooming freezing cold in the cupboard as the cupboard door prevents warm air from the hab area reaching the pipes. 

If the tank had frozen, then a 12v heater will help. 

If the waste water tank had frozen - and that is a bugger to defrost - then the answer is simple - leave the drain tap open and allow water to pass through immediately into that most exclusive accessory - the bucket. 

During that long cold snap, my only issue was a frozen waste pipe, from the shower to the waste tank. This was resolved by tipping a cup of salty water down the sink every night. The actual frozen area was the waste trap - a bit like a U bend. The salt water stayed in the U bend overnight and problem solved. 

In extreme conditions, like January this year, most vans will reach a limit. I will add that at -14 outisde, I had the Truma on at 1800watts electric constant and my little 400 watt kitchen heater on constant too. 

One morning, I had ice of the windows inside the van, but this was behind the closed curtains and blinds, proving how effective the two were at keeping the cold out and the warm in. 

I am by nature a cold person and even at this time of year leave the heating on constant. 

Russell


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

Hi Gereshom,

We're sort of in the same predicament. I'm fortunate that unlike poor Russell I quite favour the cold.... providing I can keep the really cold stuff at bay!

Russell, what is with the "HMS Sheffield" thing? Interesting point that.

Anyway, I have about 6'6" head room in my boxy camper and at 5'8" I have all this 'fun' headroom to play with. I read on this site about different grades of insulation, 2, 3 etc. and since I will be full timing and am at the re fit stage of my camper, I should insualte the floor to be on the safe side.

So my floor, ceiling and walls will be insulated all the same which will be 1" batons with 1" thick XTRATHERM board with alufoil on both faces covered in 6mm ply, 1/2 for the floor, maybe thicker. (And at just over £12 for an 8f x 4ft sheet from where I work it seems a great option). I won't be running water through the floor so won't have this freezing problem, my water will be in containers in the kitchen area and I'll pour from small containers as I need. Rather primitive but it'll suit me.

I've wondered if I may become too warm during the summer with this stuff on the floor but I like sleeping with the windows ajar. If I'm clever in my design I could make the floor lift in places so I can remove this Xtratherm if required. It's all experimental, like life.

Oh, and I will be laying wall to wall carpet and underlay in the sleeping area.

Shane.....


----------



## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi One other option for the floor, is to use Karrimat Camping Mats, available from Millets or Shops which sell Fishing & Camping gear (therefore tend to be cheaper),or if you have a Decathlon nearby you. For any water pipes in winter at very low temps, I would try to avoid using the vans facilities,and use the Campsites, if you are on one, that is!! Cheers Andy


----------



## Gereshom (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Shane, Russell and Dave!

I like the spray foam idea. Do the boards need to breath or have I got hat wrong?

The tank will need a heater Swift old of all the wiring is in there. My pipes are outside under the skirting. I also put salt down the plug holes to prevent from freezing and it helped a lot.

Gereshom


----------



## Gereshom (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Andy! I am fulltiming.


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Karrimor-Karrimat-Camping-Mat_W0QQitemZ280340095901QQcmd
There are mats on Ebay

Zeb spray-on foam insulation where can I get this as it sounds the answer to our problem of the water tank being underneath the M/H and so can freeze.


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Gereshom said:


> I like the spray foam idea. Do the boards need to breath or have I got that wrong?Gereshom


Can't see a problem so long as you don't block up any of the gas drop-outs or other ventilation holes.

Wood only needs to breathe if it has been wetted, and assuming you do the job when it's quite dry, the foam will keep the wet out and protect the wood as well.

_(Common sense opinion only of course - I'm not pretending to be an expert.)_

Dave


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Take into account that insulation can work both ways.
For example my heating system trunking follows the water pipework to allow radiated heat from the trunking stoppping the water pipes from freezing. If the water pipes were insulated then this heat would not reach and maybe cause freezing in extreme circumstances.


----------



## freddal (Jun 5, 2008)

If anyone is thinking of fitting 12volt trace heating, then the following link may be of interest.
http://www.heatline.com/pdfs/kompensator_install.pdf

Fred


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

Incidentally, did anyone think my insulation suggestion was OK or stupid maybe?

Thanks,

Shane.....


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Simplelife said:


> Incidentally, did anyone think my insulation suggestion was OK or stupid maybe?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Shane.....


Do I get a prize if I pick the right answer?? :? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave


----------



## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi if using spray foam make sure it is waterproof or it could hold water and rot the floor 8O :lol: Try lagging the pipes and tanks, if you are full timing I would think you will be filling and emptying so as not to freeze from being stood for weeks on end.My own van has only this and was stood from early DEC to late JAN, full water tanks -bloody freezing weather-no problem with water freezing/splitting tanks/ pipes  Must point out that it is exceptionally insulated everywhere else though
1.5ml alloy bonded to 4/5ml ply bonded to 45ml styrofoam bonded to 1.5ml alloy,plus 3 mm ply on all sides roof and floor with an extra ply to floor and just for good measure there is about 1.5 inches of some kind of sponge from the cab to the back axle covered in underseal!!!!!!!!!!! 
terry


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Simplelife said:
> 
> 
> > Incidentally, did anyone think my insulation suggestion was OK or stupid maybe?
> ...


Dave,

My man-to-man-winkometer is going off the scales here, that's a lot of smilies! Yes, you get a prize..... a week end for two insulating my camper! :lol:

Shane.....


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Simplelife said:


> My man-to-man-winkometer is going off the scales here, that's a lot of smilies! Yes, you get a prize..... a *week end* for two insulating my camper! :lol:
> Shane.....


And I suppose if I give the wrong answer I win a *month *for two . . . . . .

Dave 8) :lol:


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Simplelife said:
> 
> 
> > My man-to-man-winkometer is going off the scales here, that's a lot of smilies! Yes, you get a prize..... a *week end* for two insulating my camper! :lol:
> ...


Dave, correct! Obviously you've been reading the small print! :lol:

Shane.....


----------



## Gereshom (Jul 7, 2007)

I've got an idea!!!

Why don't we meet before next winter and help or advice on best insulation for our vans? We could bring the materials with us!

Those of you who are more knowledgeable can teach those who aren't and then we can help others if need be?

What do you think? It could be like a rally!

Gereshom


----------

