# No More Wild Camping



## Dunky (May 1, 2005)

Lets call it Off Camping - Wild Camping - visions of naked motorhomers dancing round a bonfire!! I met quite a bit of criticism from a group on the Costa who called us "The Illegals" - very hurtful - I do three month trips and for half that time I am only one night in each spot. The group complaining were paying £6 per night as they had been on site for nearly three months (Taken Root - The Vegetables!) - I was expected to pay £21 - yes £21 for one night - enjoyed my stop on the beach with like minded motorhomers - Dunky


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Dunky
I hear tell of whole flocks of Motorhomers "Wild camping in Spain over winter months, is this true do you know?
Tinhut
P S
I also hear they create quite a problem at times, taking over whole car parks etc. And leaving rubbish :roll:


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Dunky said:


> Wild Camping - visions of naked motorhomers dancing round a bonfire!!


Isn't that what your supposed to do then? :lol:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Lots of people do stay informally in Spain and elsewhere. I have not seen the rubbish and mess referred to. 

And before we get into the usual accusations of being cheapskates or free loaders, many of us do not like the camp site experience, only desperation would induce me to stay in one. I respect the choice of those who do like sites and would ask that my choice be afforded the same respect.

I must admit I do not like the term wild camping, Alan.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

I do agree about the term "wild camping", most of the time it's anything but wild and I think it devalues those campers who really do camp "wild" (the one man tent halfway up a mountain).

I think a much better term would be "free camping" as it seems to me that this is the overiding feature, but perhaps "informal camping" may be more politically acceptable by those among us who claim that the cost is not the main issue.

In the case of some of the Spanish free campers (some - not all of them) I think "niusance camping" might be a better description. :roll:


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## PlanetGen (Feb 12, 2009)

Just a thought, wild camping. Is the idea of Motorhoming all about freedom? Your home is on wheels, just the location changes.
What I am saying is that if Motorhomes are all about freedom then wild camping is the better route to take as they are living the life?
I suppose the word free is in freedom though!
I have never been wild camping, probably wouldnt either but just a thought on the situation.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Gaspode, I like free camping except that it will be leapt upon as referring to the cost rather than the freedom. 

I have been thinking about all this and realise that I left an important point out in my previous post. When wildfree camping I always try to leave the site at least as clean as I found it, I quite often find myself picking up litter, disposable barbecues etc. left behind by day trippers. Even when there are bins day trippers often leave their detritus behind. If there is no bin on site I take their rubbish with me and find a bin to put it in. I suspect others who care about the reputation of wildfree campers probably do likewise so that no one will think we left the rubbish, Regards, Alan.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

so * freedom camping * then?

I agree that the cost is only part of the equation its the poor value and poor experience in so many campsites.

My wife suggested *Privileged Camping* 'cause thats how we feel when we are doing it


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

I have a friend who has a flat on the sea front a Torre del Mar. She does not mind the odd motorhome parking up over night but last winter it was like a ***** camp with 30 some nights. 

If it is just about camping with out paying why do most want to park in all the sea front car parks on mass when there are large car parks up at the back of town. 

Andy


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

selfishcamping


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Live and let Live Camping :lol:


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

Tinhuttraveler said:


> Live and let Live Camping :lol:


live and let live like pikeys camping :wink:


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

inkey-2008 said:


> I have a friend who has a flat on the sea front a Torre del Mar. She does not mind the odd motorhome parking up over night but last winter it was like a ***** camp with 30 some nights.
> 
> If it is just about camping with out paying why do most want to park in all the sea front car parks on mass when there are large car parks up at the back of town.
> 
> Andy


Why do you assume that "*most *want to park in all the sea front car parks on mass "? Don't you mean the ones your friend sees like to park on mass? (sic)
Many, many people like me camp well away from such places and I suspect it's us who are actually "*most*"

Bob


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Are "wild camping" MHers really absolutely certain:

1. That piece of land / car park by the beach / beauty spot isn't owned by anybody.

2. Ours is the only MH within miles and no-one will try to join us, let alone 30+ MHs.

3. No local person actually wants to use this facility, even boy racers at 3 am.

4. There isn't a nearby private dwelling, or tourist-dependent business, whose enjoyment of the view will be marred by a massive MH plonked in the middle of it.

5. The local Council / Mayor isn't interested in keeping voters happy.

6. Everyone can tell instantly that we are not members of the Gypsy / Traveller community.

7. The Police always have better things to do than wake us up in the middle of the night.

8. Yobs always prefer to throw stones and bottles at someone else rather than foreign MHs. 

9. We won't wake up to find we are unwittingly parked in the middle of some planned event or market on this spot.

Time for a reality check?


SD


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I have never seen a post where those of us who like to wild camp, as it is usually known, became abusive and unpleasant about those who prefer to use camp sites. The norm in these discussions if for those who prefer privileged camping to be attacked. Why is that, can we respect each others preferences, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

clodhopper2006 said:


> Dunky said:
> 
> 
> > Wild Camping - visions of naked motorhomers dancing round a bonfire!!
> ...


we've been doing it wrong all this time Bob, I can't wait to tell our lass.

Kev


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

erneboy said:


> I have never seen a post where those of us who like to wild camp, as it is usually known, became abusive and unpleasant about those who prefer to use camp sites. The norm in these discussions if for those who prefer privileged camping to be attacked. Why is that, can we respect each others preferences, Alan.


did you read post 1? the vegetable comment :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Keep it civil folks.

The OP sounds like a wind-up, but whether it is or not, no personal insults please.  

Zeb (Wearing Mod hat)


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## Patsy (May 1, 2005)

You can call yourselves what you like it will change nothing. Can understand one overnight but the sight of some staying for days with awnings and tables out sitting topless(males) in a public area looks discusting. No different to gyp sorry travelling people except travelling folk accept what they are.

GO AND JOIN THEM AND STOP GETTING US A BAD REPUTATION


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Wild V Tame? so what just get in the MH and enjoy the freedom, there has been enough back biting over this topic in the past, and it is to be honest getting to be a bit of a yawn.

If there has to be a discussion just point out the merits, not your opinion of if it's right or not, we are after all supposed to be adults are we not.

Kev (who wild camps 100% so far)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

SpeedyDux said:


> Are "wild camping" MHers really absolutely certain:
> 
> 1. That piece of land / car park by the beach / beauty spot isn't owned by anybody.
> My answer.
> ...


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

www.wildcamping.co.uk


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

To be honest it makes me laugh. All the angry teeth gnashers who have a go at wild campers. If they want to rage about us then let 'em. I'll just carry on enjoying my off site camping (or whatever) regardless.
If you want to accuse me of giving motorhomers a bad reputation then fine go ahead and do so I simply don't care as I know nothing I do will do that.
I suppose they must feel that if they camped offsite they would behave badly themselves or how else would it damage reputations. 
Tell you what. When I'm next out I'll raise a glass of red to all those on sites and thank them sincerely for the solitude of my wild camp that they're leaving for me to enjoy.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> To be honest it makes me laugh. All the angry teeth gnashers who have a go at wild campers. If they want to rage about us then let 'em. I'll just carry on enjoying my off site camping (or whatever) regardless.
> If you want to accuse me of giving motorhomers a bad reputation then fine go ahead and do so I simply don't care as I know nothing I do will do that.
> I suppose they must feel that if they camped offsite they would behave badly themselves or how else would it damage reputations.
> Tell you what. When I'm next out I'll raise a glass of red to all those on sites and thank them sincerely for the solitude of my wild camp that they're leaving for me to enjoy.


What a sensible post.  
Live and let live, I say.


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> To be honest it makes me laugh. All the angry teeth gnashers who have a go at wild campers. If they want to rage about us then let 'em. I'll just carry on enjoying my off site camping (or whatever) regardless.
> If you want to accuse me of giving motorhomers a bad reputation then fine go ahead and do so I simply don't care as I know nothing I do will do that.
> I suppose they must feel that if they camped offsite they would behave badly themselves or how else would it damage reputations.
> Tell you what. When I'm next out I'll raise a glass of red to all those on sites and thank them sincerely for the solitude of my wild camp that they're leaving for me to enjoy.


And so say all of us!!!


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

live and let live is the gypsy/***** motto very easy to say costs a lot to clean up afterwards. imo if you dont agree with travellers/gypsys then you cant wildcamp yourself.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It is a pity that we do not have a button for disapproval in the same way that we do for thanks. 

I hope, Karlb that you notice we pro wild campers have not employed insults, although you have chosen to interpret what I read as an innocent simile as one, Alan.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

This is a touchy subject ain't it :wink: I too liked reading Clodhoppers post , especially the line

"thank them sincerely for the solitude of my wild camp that they're leaving for me to enjoy."

In that one word "solitude" his post sums up for me the intrinsic part of wild camping that should be observed by all those who engage in it.... do it on your own, do it out of sight. That way maybe no one will even notice you are there for just one night.

As to finding a new name for "wild" camping... how about Feral Camping? or Dei Gratia Camping..... and no that second one does not exactly mean free camping :wink: 


Mike


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

erneboy said:


> It is a pity that we do not have a button for disapproval in the same way that we do for thanks.
> 
> I hope, Karlb that you notice we pro wild campers have not employed insults, although you have chosen to interpret what I read as an innocent simile as one, Alan.


you can disaprove of my posts all you like, i have also read the first post again and i read it as a insult. my posting is like wild camping, not everybody likes it but i carry on because im selfish and dont give a stuff about anybody else! :wink:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Nice vitriolic burst of intolerance from Patsy a few posts back. 

It may be that some of us who prefer to stay in places other than camp sites have similarly nasty things to say but I have not yet seen them said. 

Regardless of which side people take in the debate it will be clear to them which side is the more tolerant, coherent and credible.

Karlb, I merely suggest that we differ in our understanding of the vegetable reference, Alan.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

karlb said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> > It is a pity that we do not have a button for disapproval in the same way that we do for thanks.
> ...


so why the smiley?


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

karlb said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> > It is a pity that we do not have a button for disapproval in the same way that we do for thanks.
> ...


In that case may we all thank Karlb for not being a wild camper. Your outlook expressed in your last sentance would give us wild campers a bad name.
 
PS I'm happy to continue using the term wild camping if it annoys those who disaprove of me


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

How about ***** stop overs  .
I am guilty M'lord as accused!.


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Nice vitriolic burst of intolerance from Patsy a few posts back.
> 
> It may be that some of us who prefer to stay in places other than camp sites have similarly nasty things to say but I have not yet seen them said.
> 
> ...


i dont get how people who wild camp anywhere they please think its tolerant or credible. i can also accept that we need more overnight aire type sites,but in stoke where im from we have a huge gypsy/traveller problem, and i find the wildcamping idea a bit to close for comfort.

karl


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Karlb, I did not say that wild camping was tolerant or credible, only that the points for discussion coming from my our side of the debate are tolerant, credible and lacking in the vitriol being displayed by those who disagree with us. We are being polite in the face of some rather unpleasant remarks. 

If there is one thing I can´t stand it´s intolerance, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

What a bunch of discrminatory people we have on here.

Just because someone else's idea of what to do in a MH is not for you, you think it gives you the right to have a go, well have your little goes, do you think for one second it will make a difference.

It's all very simple, if you have a kid or three, then on-site facilities are really a must for you, some will want TV, the X box, some will want to kick a ball about and run and play and scream and generally do what kids have always done, and bloody right too, for them wild camping would most likely be a no no, kids need barriers, to keep them safe from harm and to keep unwanted people away from them, and a camp site is probably the best place for them to play in some freedom.

However, if you don't like a lot of noise or high spirited kids running around then there are not so many child free sites, so your options are a bit limited, stay home, go on a package holiday, or get off by yourself and wild camp, we do it be alone, away from it ALL, with usually some spectacular views, we tell no one now where we camp, as to do so would ruin it for all, we have no intention of spoiling it for others, we NEVER stay within sight of a house or other lived in place, occassionally we might stay near another MH or caravan/tent, but only if it's getting a bit too late to move on and find somewhere else.

so unless you actually have a valid reason, which actually affects you, IE someone stayed on your front lawn, or we are harming YOU in some way, why not just back off and leave us to do what we like to do, I don't really care where you camp up, whether on site or off, as long as you don't cause me any aggravation, live and let live.

Finally, will you please stop referring to it as FREE camping, it bloody well ain't free, if it was there would be more doing it methinks, going off the beaten track does damage to the underside of most MH's, not to mention the scratches from branches etc, so give it a rest, as your constant moaning is becoming a bit last year to say the least, get a grip, and a life.

Kev.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

I think the anti wilds disagree with wilding because they have got no bottle to do it themselves. Leave only footprints.  

steve


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Somebody on here once came up with the term 'off grid' camping - I like that.

I like to go 'off grid' when I can. I don't see a problem as long as you are discreet, don't stay in large groups, take all your waste away with you and leave the place cleaner than you left it.

Be nice to each other :wink: 

Pete


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## Patsy (May 1, 2005)

First let me apologise to those who camp off the beaten track etc. I was not refering to you. Its the ones who gather in packs in car parks ,sea fronts and beaches


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We have stayed on a car park, once, never again, a sea front, (well over looking the sea) a few times, and on a secluded deserted beach miles from anywhere quite a lot.

We am bad bad bad campers we am :roll: :roll: :roll: 


Each to his/her own, don't bully people who don't conform to your idea of how a MH should be used, people who bully seldom have an audience for very long.

Kev


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I recently stayed on a lovely, reasonably priced, CL at Port Logan. A car park in the village clearly stated that overnight camping was not allowed. Needless to say that an inconsiderate motorhomer disregarded the sign and set up home next to the sign! No wonder we all get a bad name.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Out of interest Rowley, what do *you* regard as _reasonably priced, CL _?

I am not getting at you, just wondering what you (and others) think is a fair price to park the wheels of a MH overnight.


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## CaGreg (Mar 28, 2007)

We wild camp about 98% of the time. If we had to change that and could only stay in sites we would sell our van immediately. Staying in sites and wildcamping are two totally different things. It's like the difference between independent travelling and package holidays, there is a market for both.

Ca


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## Patsy (May 1, 2005)

Kev n Liz 

If you wish to reply to a post kindly read the content and I aint trying to bully anyone man High five


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi,

Whether you are pro or anti "wild" camping (for want of a better word) the trend we see is for more MHers to abuse it, and for more restrictions to be imposed that impact on all of us, even those who just stay on campsites and want to use their MH as a day van or for their main everyday transport. Also, more of the Traveller community are using MHs instead of caravans. You can see MHs on their encampments. Whether they buy or steal them is irrelevant. Any distinction we may wish to keep between bona fide MHers and Travellers is quickly becoming blurred.

If the trend I perceive continues, it is entirely foreseeable that the day will come when new legislation will be imposed at central government level to curb what will have come to be widely viewed by the non-MH public as an unacceptable degree of antisocial behaviour by (a selfish and inconsiderate minority) of MHers. 

There is a precedent for this. Caravanners "wild" camping in beauty spots, on the coast, and on farmer's fields in large numbers in the 1950s resulted in Parliament passing the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 to protect the countryside.

Much of the media focus at present is on the Gypsy / Traveller community. No accurate census has been carried out for about 40 years but it seems that there is a shortfall of provision by Local Authorities of official sites resulting in about 3,000 Traveller families for whom there are no official pitches available (and we know they can't or won't use commercial campsites). An incredible amount of time and public money is being wasted dealing with that problem because providing official sites is a vote loser even though it would probably be much cheaper in the long run. 

On the other hand, a simple law to curb wild camping by MHers could have a lot of political appeal because it costs the taxpayer virtually nothing and could be seen as a vote winner because it would potentially curb the Travellers too. 

That's what I meant by a reality check. The rest of my earlier post was intended as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but this is what really concerns me. Feel free to disagree but at least accept that wild camping has consequences for all of us including those who don't.


SD


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Speedydux, equally the authorities could decide to cater for us and take advantage of the recent marked increase in this trend in tourism, in the way France and Germany do. 

In Northern Ireland we have two aire facilities in County Antrim which I hope may be an example to other councils, Alan.


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

sallytrafic said:


> so * freedom camping * then?


This 'Freedom Camping' is the term used by a New Zealand couple we have met, and kept in touch with, over the last year. They spent most of the winter and early spring in Spain and reported nothing but good experience and welcoming people. It may be worth noting that they did spend some of the winter along the southern coast, but roamed far and wide otherwise.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Speedydux, equally the authorities could decide to cater for us and take advantage of the recent marked increase in this trend in tourism, in the way France and Germany do.


Gloucester Old Spots I think Ern, but they were a bit too high to be certain!

Dave 8O   

Edit for speling mitsake. :lol:


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Speedydux, equally the authorities could decide to cater for us and take advantage of the recent marked increase in this trend in tourism, in the way France and Germany do.
> 
> In Northern Ireland we have two aire facilities in County Antrim which I hope may be an example to other councils, Alan.


i agree more sites/aires but what about the people want to be on there own? what can a local council do to curb that other than a blanket ban effecting everyone.


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

*Wild camping*

Perhaps this is not the place for this observation, but we recently stopped at the CC site at Smedmore House Kimmeridge, really lovely and not too expensive. However, we walked to the village, again very nice, then to the beach. This it appears is privately owned by the estate so they charge £4 to park a car, £5 if it has a boat on the roof? and, wait for it, £10 to park a MH, which, as there are no marked parking bays, probably takes up no more room than some inconsiderate car drivers, some had parked sideways so that they needn,t get out to look at the view? There is no overnight parking allowed, so clearly no camping, unless of course you decide to get out the table and chairs and enjoy your lunch in the open air, would this constitute "camping", certainly on some French Aires it would, as this is expressly forbidden, as it is camping, whereas parking a MH overnight and sleeping in it is not. Could the same argument be used here, ie the differentiation between "camping" and just sleeping in a MH?
curlyboy


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

I like wild free off grid ( whatever you want to call it) camping. because I want to stop somewhere nice/convenient and I dont want to drag a smart car around.

I prefer aires and stellplatze and would always use them where the local authority has gone to the trouble of providing them. otherwise I wild camp.

I make sure Im not blocking anyones view I don t leave litter and I'm considerate about my behaviour. given that a lot of MH ers obviously feel the same what is the problem?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Karlb, in Germany and France we use the aires and stelplatz but we also stay in remote areas or on a river bank on our own from time to time. To put that in context we recently stayed on a mountain top for two days and did not see another person or a vehicle. 

That is our thing but I appreciate it is not for everybody, Alan.


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Pippin asked-----Out of interest Rowley, what do you regard as reasonably priced, CL ?

The Port Logan CL was £10 per night. This included toilets h&c washbasins and shower. It also had hardstanding and a superb view over the harbour. I consider that good value.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I would agree with your perception of that site.
A tenner was reasonable, although in France it would probably have been €5.

I asked because we spent a night on a CS/CL just outside Shrewsbury.
No hardstandings, the field was quite "contoured", no toilets and just a freshwater tap. There may have been a drain but we didn't see it.

All we needed was a place to park our four wheels for the night, which cost us a tenner.

That was over the top (dros ben, mas draw) I thought.

We would have wild/freedom camped had we the time to recce as we had no need of any facilities.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

SpeedyDux said:


> Hi,
> 
> Whether you are pro or anti "wild" camping (for want of a better word) the trend we see is for more MHers to abuse it, and for more restrictions to be imposed that impact on all of us, even those who just stay on campsites and want to use their MH as a day van or for their main everyday transport. Also, more of the Traveller community are using MHs instead of caravans. You can see MHs on their encampments. Whether they buy or steal them is irrelevant. Any distinction we may wish to keep between bona fide MHers and Travellers is quickly becoming blurred.
> 
> ...


I agree with you that some motorhomers will abuse it. The trouble is in any activity you care to mention there will be abusers. The great majority though will not abuse it and their wild camping will be more or less like mine. Which is to say they camp out of site of habitation and leave no trace visible the next day.
Do you seriously expect that responsible wild campers should cease their activities because of the minority of abusers? How would that help? Surely the irresponsible abusers would continue to create their mayhem anyway.
If laws were passed on all pastimes because some people abuse it then here in Scotland we would never have had the Land Reform Act passed allowing free access for all in the hills to walk and cycle where they please. In Scotland we are forward looking and seek to educate not legislate. We recognise people will abuse the hills but we seek to manage it. We don't ban people from using the hills.
In the same way wild camping by motorhomes is widely tolerated and as Frank will no doubt back me up on with his knowledge gained on his travels around the coast, our excellent wild camp sites are in the main completely un spoilt.
Tolerance and education is all that's required in these potentially problematic areas.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Is it really free camping.
We are in a vehicle thats is taxed and insured and we park up --as you do in any vehicle--the fact that we then stay in the vehicle all night does that really matter.
We usually choose a pleasent spot away from other vehicles.
I once saw a M/H in Arundel Sussex and the blinds were all down so the owners were sleeping in there.
I was with a policeman friend and I said would you move them on --his reply was-- no we know it will only be for 1 or 2 nights and they will spend money sightseeing at the Castle and eating in the cafes and drinking in the Locals.
That Policeman was a M/H owner himself-- he has the right outlook.

I wild camped in the winter in Spain and we didnt see to many M/H's down on beaches but when we did they were all keeping the area clean and tidy.


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*Freedom camping*

Well this sure is a hot subject, and sure the cost of U.K campsites is prohibitive and just not good value i.e £25 per night just to park the m/h on a bit of grass surounded by a load of chavs, we did stay a few nights in a couple of campsites in france last month at 11e a night which I thought was reasonable the rest of the time we stayed in Aires or other locations.
So how about we all just chill out and live and let live, if you want to stay on a C/Club site which looks like a local authority car park fine but dont knock the peeps that stay in a location of their choice.
Chris


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## bubble10 (Aug 3, 2009)

call it what you like, there are many ways of viewing it and I just don't give a dam!!

I wild camp and I go on sites too:-

(i) wild camping:- Generally you have better veiws in the most remote places, undisturbed by others. More at one with nature and closer to how camping came about.

(ii) sites offer all of the conveniences, not always the best of veiws and having to be tollerant of other campers and there families (great if you hit a chord). The best part is obviously the security and piece of mind.

What I do get irritated about is campsites offering basic fascilities and charging bed and breakfast fees - (What's going on here)!!!

What ever you do just enjoy it, and let others enjoy what they do.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

clodhopper2006 said:


> SpeedyDux said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


Very pleased to agree with you. We did find litter in scotland  but precious little at the wild camps and after we left there was none


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

IMHO the most important thing is to be tolerant of the opinions of others;

We use sites since we enjoy them, we would not expect everyone to do so, neither would we condemn those who do not like to use them for whatever reason.

On our recent French trip we stayed in Gite de France campsites (about €8 per night plus EHU - €3.5), commercial sites (very expensive but well equipped and no easy alternatives available), Municipal sites - about €15 per night and very well equipped and one former now disused municipal site where we approached the Mairie and he approved us staying there although it was closed 2 years ago, he even supplied a f/w tap and charged us €2.5 per night.

We also stayed in an aire by a river (very noisy with many of the great unwashed partying on the riverbank below us - did not feel safe), one French Passion chateau (excellent and totally free with EHU etc (although we did invest in some wine!), and tried to stay in aire in Brittany but does not exist other than supermarket car park. Eventually found aire in village that was closed (gates shut at 8.00pm) so stayed in car park nearby - shock horror - really quiet (2 other vans there - hence why we stayed), good facilities and very welcoming. 

So a mixture of sites that suited us, some more than others true, some we will revisit others not, but the key point is tolerance to try different things without condemning anyone for their opinion.

Sadly there have been some heated comments on this thread which suggests that our view of tolerance of the actions of others is not universal!

It is very easy to read into a post what was not originally intended - we are all guilty of doing that and jump to conclusions about other people's comments which may be inaccurate.

As has been said throughout by so many people, we should all try to tolerate others at least until their actions directly affect us.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

I've wild camped in the mountains for years (small 1 man tent ) & never left more than my footprints behind. Now i've got the MH what makes you think my approach to these beautiful places would change? 
Whenever I've wildcamped I've not seen any mess left by anyone.
I've stayed on sites & whilst they have there place there not always for us.


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## yozz (Jan 18, 2009)

Having mostly wildcamped, or whatever people prefer to call it, I think it's disgusting the attitude towards those of us who decide to off site sometimes. 

I guess it's just a small minority of people who wouldn't turn their nose up at a free overnighting place if they needed it. 

When they need it I hope they have the respect to leave it as they find it, or better.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

When in France I stop on Aires mainly. In the UK I do wild camp predominantly but never near houses and never near touristy areas or town centers. I find places in the middle of nowhere where I am not bothering anyone and no one bothers me. I even stop on industrial sites now and again as I find these to be very quiet at night and the dead ends in them don't get the boy racer fraternity. I can understand the anger of residents having a number of MH's parking outside there houses and avoid even parking for minutes if I am going to be casting a shadow into someone's house.

So long as the wild campers are considerate and think about the impact they "May" have then I see no problems with it at all.

Karl


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Hi

Having lived in southern Spain for the last 11 years, I can say the motorhomers Ive seen have not caused any real problems. But with all the expanse of land out here you do not have to join a large group if you dont want to. it has been the norm for years during the winter. But under that same umbrella sadly, also are the sector that camp in converted panel vans most with no MOT or insurance. Most dont have fresh water toilets, or beds !!!! And windows cut out with a jigsaw and a perspex sheet riveted in the hole to pass as windows.
It is thes guys that make the mess and get the locals backs up. not to mention the Poliza Local....


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## bubble10 (Aug 3, 2009)

it is a fact in this life that you can split the population into two - those that consider others and those that consider themselves, and they are in all walks of life, including owselves in campervans. You will find a proportion of campers on sites that expect the world to evolve around them as well as clear up after them and the same for some that wild camp. But you can't make character judgement by whether someboy stays on an all singing and dancing £30/night site in a 30 year old rusty selfbuit van conversion or someone else stays in a layby in a new all singing and dancing £100,000 coach built!! Bottom line is the only chacters that will fit neetly into pigeon holes are those that judge other by unfounded ideas.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Patsy said:


> Kev n Liz
> 
> If you wish to reply to a post kindly read the content and I aint trying to bully anyone man High five


Then don't group people together, it's never safe to generalise, especially on an open forum.

We should be sticking together not back biting like a load of kids, while we're all having a go at each other, they'll slip in more legislation, possibly making it so we all have to stay on some camp site, then you'll see the value of your MH plummet, as thousands try to offload a vehicle they no longer have a need for, and for those who want to keep them, it'll be damn near impossible to find a site, which will mean you'll need to Wild camp, then you'll be one of us bad uns, then suddenly we won't seem so bad will we.

We all got into this hobby for different reasons, if sitting in a field at £15 a night appeals to you, fine, you won't catch me complaining, I actually think there should be more camp sites, but limited to no more than ten places, aires might be a good idea, but the wild campers won't use them, as it has nothing to do with cost, as has been said so many times already.

If you tame campers keep on whining at us, it won't have much effect, except to make us laugh a little, we'll just keep on wild camping, if you've not tried it, don't knock it, if it bugs you so much why not try to point out some reasons why we would want to camp on a site, or at least valid ones for not wild camping, the car park full of caravans and the odd MH argument doesn't work as we're not into group camping or have you not sussed that out yet (aimed at no one in particular) ve vant to be alone, so bugger off and leave us alone.

Kev.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

bubble10 said:


> it is a fact in this life that you can split the population into two - those that consider others and those that consider themselves, and they are in all walks of life, including owselves in campervans. You will find a proportion of campers on sites that expect the world to evolve around them as well as clear up after them and the same for some that wild camp. But you can't make character judgement by whether someboy stays on an all singing and dancing £30/night site in a 30 year old rusty selfbuit van conversion or someone else stays in a layby in a new all singing and dancing £100,000 coach built!! Bottom line is the only chacters that will fit neetly into pigeon holes are those that judge other by unfounded ideas.


nicely put Bubble.

Kev.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Marnaz makes a good point. I have been on aires where there have been some people who looked rather like the stereo typical new age traveller. Some in very home made machines and a few with kids and dogs running out of control. Some of these people had obviously been there for some time and had accumulated mess around their vans. In some cases these vans did not look safe or roadworthy. 

I have used the word some a lot because equally there were people in home converted vehicles who were perfectly well behaved, perhaps the more so because they are aware of how others may be inclined to view them. We should not base our opinion of other MHers on which vehicle they have, we all travel in the vehicle which is available to us. Some are lucky enough to have a shiny new one while others cannot stretch to that and so travel in what they can afford. 

We met four young polish chaps travelling in a small curtain sided truck, they lived in the back under canvas. Very nice, quiet and pleasant young men they were, Alan.


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Patsy said:
> 
> 
> > Kev n Liz
> ...


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Superk said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> > Patsy said:
> ...


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## kennyboy (Oct 25, 2005)

I was not going to post anything on this thread BUT ........here is my story;
We are coming to Shrewsbury to see some friends but can only manage 1 night. Unfortunately for us that night is the Thursday before the bank holiday weekend and I was informed by 2 campsites, one commercial and the other one a C & C club, that they were only taking 4 night bookings for the bank holiday! How ridiculous is that! :x 
Luckily we have found a small site which will have us but you can see why people will wild camp faced with rules like that!
Ken


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

How about using the term 'Off Site'' camping as free camping might aggravate those that believe we should all pay for a commercial site.

Well I echo a previous one about dividing us and bickering at each other, when we both enjoy the same hobby.

Personally I don't judge anybody in any way. Having caravaned in 30 year old wrecks to our current RV I have as indeed you will have done, met so many types of people in all walks of life that frankly im no longer supprised by any body any more.

I, as many will do, love the peace and quiet and solitude, and cant see us never ending 'Off Site' camping. 
But on occasions like us all I have used commercial campsites, but from choice prefer not to.

I when 'Off Site' camping like a previous writer said often end up cleaning other peoples litter up that is deposited close to me, as I think responsible camping will help locals and councils cut us some slack here.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

kennyboy said:


> I was not going to post anything on this thread BUT ........here is my story;
> We are coming to Shrewsbury to see some friends but can only manage 1 night. Unfortunately for us that night is the Thursday before the bank holiday weekend and I was informed by 2 campsites, one commercial and the other one a C & C club, that they were only taking 4 night bookings for the bank holiday! How ridiculous is that! :x
> Luckily we have found a small site which will have us but you can see why people will wild camp faced with rules like that!
> Ken


Fair point but it's not the reason I wild camp. If a wild camp offers a nice secluded pitch away from any houses etc and has a fine view I'll use it even if there is a site down the road. Its nothing to do with money it's that the wild camp for me has more to offer.
I can play my Pink Floyd at full volume if I want without upsetting anyone for a start  
Then in the morning I will leave knowing I've left no sign I was ever there.

Bob


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Quite right Marnax. 

A cautionary tale.I was reading on another site that a chap went walking in the same park regularly. Fed up with the litter, he took to carrying a bin bag and picking up litter as he strolled. One day, at the end of his walk he deposited the bag of rubbish in a litter bin before leaving the park. He was seen doing so by some jobs worth who issued him with a fixed penalty as the bins were intended for litter only, it was considered that he was misusing the litter bins. His explanation was not believed. 

If I can find that story again I will post the link, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

clodhopper2006 said:


> kennyboy said:
> 
> 
> > I was not going to post anything on this thread BUT ........here is my story;
> ...


Your string vest is showing Bob, you'll be saying you liked Curved Air next.

Kev.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Quite right Marnax.
> 
> A cautionary tale.I was reading on another site that a chap went walking in the same park regularly. Fed up with the litter, he took to carrying a bin bag and picking up litter as he strolled. One day, at the end of his walk he deposited the bag of rubbish in a litter bin before leaving the park. He was seen doing so by some jobs worth who issued him with a fixed penalty as the bins were intended for litter only, it was considered that he was misusing the litter bins. His explanation was not believed.
> 
> If I can find that story again I will post the link, Alan.


In the same vein why can't I put glass bottles in my re-cycling bin, but I can put magazines, milk carton etc in, glass has got to be the best for re-cycling I would have thought.

Kev.


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Hi me again......

Just to clear the air, 'if' anyone is under the impression I am pigeon holing people by the quality of build of there motor 'unit' I would like to say I might have given the wrong impression. I have been in that situation my self the most humiliating one was in Dawlish. I had a land rover and 22 foot Hobby caravan, and was greeted by the 'warden/owner' pulling down the barrier stating we don't have your sort in here....

I am aware we all have different budgets available to us. But the new age traveller type, while nothing against any person as Ive met a few in the past, that proved my pre conceptions wrong.
But is the any real reason why the litter cant be picked up, and the site left as it was found. also road tax and MOT plus insurance is another topic....

Enjoy our hobby Marnaz...


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

kennyboy said:


> I was not going to post anything on this thread BUT ........here is my story;
> We are coming to Shrewsbury to see some friends but can only manage 1 night. Unfortunately for us that night is the Thursday before the bank holiday weekend and I was informed by 2 campsites, one commercial and the other one a C & C club, that they were only taking 4 night bookings for the bank holiday! How ridiculous is that! :x
> Luckily we have found a small site which will have us but you can see why people will wild camp faced with rules like that!
> Ken


WOW oh yes Ken do we agree with that one. Because of work commitments we cant all have the long week end off, so why have to pay for it ??? . I hope these sites end up empty !!!! Ha that'l teach them...


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> clodhopper2006 said:
> 
> 
> > kennyboy said:
> ...


Nah never in the same class Kev  . I used to fancy their lead singer though. Cant remember her name.


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

clodhopper2006 said:


> kennyboy said:
> 
> 
> > I was not going to post anything on this thread BUT ........here is my story;
> ...


Ha. The only time I play my pink floyd at the volume i like is when we camp 'Off Site' again not a question of mony, more of principle.
Maybe we could start up a Dave Gilmore fan clup forum..... :lol:


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

marnaz said:


> clodhopper2006 said:
> 
> 
> > kennyboy said:
> ...


Bring it on!!! :lol:


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> > Quite right Marnax.
> ...


Not wishing to bore you all to death about Spain But glass recycle bins are the only ones you ever see here so the must be something in that...


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## MalanCris (Apr 2, 2007)

Curved Air....wasn't that Sonia Kristina?
I'll sign up for the Gilmour fan club as well.

On the subject of the thread, we have always used campsites but out of personal preferance (swmbo feels more secure) but I think that deep down I admire the wild campers, especially when I see some of the sights they overlook!

Live and let live :lol:


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> I was informed by 2 campsites, one commercial and the other one a C & C club, that they were only taking 4 night bookings for the bank holiday! How ridiculous is that! Mad


kennyboy (and marnaz?):
THe answer is in your question.
It's a commercial site so it's a commercial decision.
They obviously belive they have a good chance of selling four nights over a bank holiday so why jeopardise that just for a one-night booking?. So not ridiculous at all from the commercial point of view.

See the argument from both sides!


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Your just a bunch of crazy diamonds  

Not you Tel


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That one night, four nights thing was flogged to death here a week or so ago. We have a holiday home business and we cannot afford to take short stay customers at this time of year as we know someone will book the full week. Taking the shorter booking would loose us money. 

As to the music, count me in, but can I have some original Fleetwood Mac (Peter Green´s) as well please, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

clodhopper2006 said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> > clodhopper2006 said:
> ...


I used to fancy all the female lead singers

here, enjoy Curved Air

http://www.curvedair.com/

Kev.


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## kennyboy (Oct 25, 2005)

Sorry Erneboy I obviously did not read the flogged to death thread!
And of course when money is concerned it all makes sense.  
We do all our motorhoming in Europe nowdays so are not au fait with the British booking etiquette for a bank holiday weekend. We do stand corrected. Thank you.
Ken


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## yozz (Jan 18, 2009)

erneboy said:

_We should not base our opinion of other MHers on which vehicle they have, we all travel in the vehicle which is available to us. Some are lucky enough to have a shiny new one while others cannot stretch to that and so travel in what they can afford._

Yep I agree with you on that.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I am boasting as I am in the _shiny new one _brigade - well it was new and shiny two years ago!


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

MalanCris said:


> Curved Air....wasn't that Sonia Kristina?
> I'll sign up for the Gilmour fan club as well.
> 
> On the subject of the thread, we have always used campsites but out of personal preferance (swmbo feels more secure) but I think that deep down I admire the wild campers, especially when I see some of the sights they overlook!
> ...


Well while on the subject of Gillmore, Curved Air, How about Yes, Genesis, Deep purple, America, ELP, Zeppelin....Maybe we could meet up for a mini woodstock.....? Someware remote and not be a problem to anyone..... Oh the sighs of a misspent youth...


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

bigbazza said:


> Your just a bunch of crazy diamonds
> 
> Not you Tel


Oh no.... I think I am receading, my hands feel like two ballons......
See were not alone.....


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

erneboy said:


> That one night, four nights thing was flogged to death here a week or so ago. We have a holiday home business and we cannot afford to take short stay customers at this time of year as we know someone will book the full week. Taking the shorter booking would loose us money.
> 
> As to the music, count me in, but can I have some original Fleetwood Mac (Peter Green´s) as well please, Alan.


Aarrrrgh , Sorry i forgot Fleetwood Mac... Great band.


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

If while you're travelling round the Uk, wild/free/offgrid camping or planting yourself on a commercial/proper/civilised site why not call in and see an excellent gig. Check out Kent du Chaine, (www.kentduchaine.com).

But to get back on thread. Freedom! That's why we bought our van and if we choose we stay on sites and if we choose we freecamp. It's all about choice.

Why does it bother people who use sites so much that some van owners want to excercise this choice? Laybys were put there exactly for that purpose, so you can stop and sleep when travelling overnight. When roads were first tarmacced they were the distance apart that the road gang could travel in a day. They then made a cut out so they could park up their caravan for the night. If you walk the West Highland Way you can still see, in some places on the trail, the places where the roadbuilders did this and there are signs explaining the way they did it.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

marnaz said:


> MalanCris said:
> 
> 
> > Curved Air....wasn't that Sonia Kristina?
> ...


Oooooh can we somehow resurect Hendrix too? By the way did you know Led Zep turned woodstock down? They apparently were playing elswhere at a higher paying gig.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

marnaz said:


> MalanCris said:
> 
> 
> > Curved Air....wasn't that Sonia Kristina?
> ...


ELP ???


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

Let's get back on topic please and start your music discussion in another thread if that's what you want to discuss.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Hasn`t the topic more or less petered out. The conclusion, happily, seems to be live and let live, Alan.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

erneboy said:


> Hasn`t the topic more or less petered out. The conclusion, happily, seems to be live and let live, Alan.


Yeah thats what I thought too. Peace, man


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

James Taylor once said he didn't like heavy metal, but he would write one heavy song called "I'm a Steamroller baby, and I'm goanna roll all over you"
I thought this very apt for this thread, as some posters seem to "Roll over everybody else's opinion  
Tinhut ( in earnest)


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Tinhuttraveler said:


> James Taylor once said he didn't like heavy metal, but he would write one heavy song called "I'm a Steamroller baby, and I'm goanna roll all over you"
> I thought this very apt for this thread, as some posters seem to "Roll over everybody else's opinion
> Tinhut ( in earnest)


I'm not really sure what this means. Do you mean you should never let on if you hold an opinion that differs from another persons in case they can't counter your argument?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Tinhut, I too am not sure what you mean. I see nothing wrong in having a robust argument on any topic. I suppose when engaged in such discussion we all hope to persuade those who disagree with us that we are right and they should change their view. So long as it remains civil, I think it is fine. 

Or have I missed your point, Alan.


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Oooops Mrs Moderator. 

Sorry bout that but this music thing started from just one wild camper remarking on playing Pink floyd in the middle of know whare.....

As it seems to have generated an intrest in us aging hippies I will do as you ask and start a new thread.....

Sorry not included Hendrix in the list, Forgot
2. I didnt know led Zep turned woodstock down
3. ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer

So before I cause any more probs no more music chat from me...
off to start a new topic Music & aging Hippies.....


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

some take things a little too seriously

Kev


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That hippie music thread sounds like a gas man or is that gas, man, like far out, gravy booby, Alan.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Back on topic!

I will be camping in the MH tomorrow night, breaking a long journey.

I will not be on a campsite because what campsite really wants an arrival at 23:00m departing at 08:00. 

I will need no facilities, other than a quiet place to park my four wheels.

Do I feel guilty at not paying out £20? No.

I know a nice little secluded car park on my route that is just at about the right point to break my journey.

I would happily pay a fiver (or even €5!) but of course there is no mechanism to do so.

I shall not be wild, it might be free, but I will leave no trace of my visit.

Just the one night there every now and again, that is what it is all about.


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