# gypsies?



## dragabed (May 24, 2008)

just got back from town ipswich 
20 -25 gypsies opposite the football ground on public park 10 or 12 in motorcaravans, no wonder local authorities don,t want us
they have only been there a day and the place is all ready a mess.


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

There were some on Cross Green roundabout for a few weeks chickens and other livestock running all over the road they have now gone I notice the Council there clearing up the tip there was a sackful of used nappies for a start, loads of bread baskets and general litter oh its ok our Council will clear it up whilst us Council Tax payers foot the bill.

Crime goes up in the area too and before anyone says no it doesn't it does it's a fact.

They can go wherever they want I don't care just as long as they don't cost me anything which invariably they do!

Janet


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
On a LIGHT HEARTED NOTE!!,should any of them own an Autosleeper m/home,they could join the "Autosleepers Owners club".
That saying?..... You could not make it up,LOL.
Gearjammer


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Surely we of all groups should know better than have these posts over and over again.
A lot of us are travellers. I have worked all my life and saved for a pension which (just about) allows me to travel around Europe fultime. I am 71 years old. When I retired, the company I founded was employing 30 people and on good salaries. Most are still friends after all these years.
Yet we get this sort of discussion about "gypsies" who almost certainly are not gypsies at all. More likely to be New Age Travellers - maybe.
There are far more good folk than bad IMHO but there are bad in all walks of life, some running Plcs!
I know winging is a national trait. I will defend your right to do it. But please can you stop calling all travelling groups who make a mess "Gypsies" and even more, please could you not perpetuate the myth that anyone travelling in a motorhome or caravan is
a) dishonest
b) doesn't pay taxes.
Neither are true.
This whole stereotypical conversation is often started by people who haven't even bothered to speak to the perpetrators.
And no,I amnot a gypsy or a Romany. If you PM me I will show you that I am to be found in both Debrett's and Burkes.
Please treat others as you would like them to treat you and don't bad-mouth people whom you don't know, please.
Patrick


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

How can you be in Debrett's and Burkes when you cannot spell whinging.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

You dont need to pass a spelling test to be in Debretts or Burkes!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

sysinfo said:


> How can you be in Debrett's and Burkes when you cannot spell whinging.


Marie Antoinette was an awful speller and she was in the Almanach de Gotha !

G


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

I agree with Patrick. Not all gypsies are thieving, messy, people. Not all gypsies avoid paying tax, rates. Not all gypsies take over a peaceful area and ruin it. Not all gypsies are thugs.

Just 99.9999999999999% of them.


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

sysinfo said:


> How can you be in Debrett's and Burkes when you cannot spell whinging.


Easy. Buy a cheap Microsoft keyboard where the keys work sometimes.
I am just trying to make the point that I do not have an axe to grind from my heritage.
Patrick


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Isn't the main point dragabed was trying to make that examples like the one he saw show that more and more of the Traveller community (Irish, Gyspy, Romanian or whatever) seem to be switching to motorhomes instead of their traditional caravans?

That trend towards motorhome use instead of caravans risks confusion for those who are less knowledgeable and can't tell at a glance which is which despite the circumstances. It means that the public and authorities are more likely to become hostile to ordinary motorhomers especially those who like to wild camp or just use public car parks while visiting a town or place of interest, maybe out of fear that the motorhomers will be joined by a large group who will set up an illegal encampment, and that when they leave there will be a mess to clear up. 

We all know that the Irish Traveller / Gypsy community has been granted special status as a distinct race or ethnic group, to give them legal protection from discrimination just because they are supposedly travellers with a nomadic culture. Whereas ordinary motorhomers (especially full-timers who carry on a true nomadic way of life out of choice and are arguably more nomadic than many real ethnic Irish Travellers and Gypsies who now live permanently in bricks and mortar) are refused recognition as true Travellers and therefore denied protection against discrimination by the authorities simply because of their ethnicity. That doesn't seem fair at all. 

SD


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## GEOMAR (Mar 16, 2008)

*gipsies*

Will that one on Big Brother have fo pay tax on his 6 figure sum he will be paid and surely his benefits be stopped , I doubt it
GEOMAR


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## stevee4 (Oct 12, 2007)

I believe the main reason England is so much more motorhome unfriendly than the Continent is wholly because of the actions of gypsies. 

Make no bones about it there are real financial headaches when one of these groups moves into an area. Even after they have left, they return and the number of 4x4s, quad bikes, small building plant that gets stolen is frightening. 

Our road sides have changed to stop off road parking with ditches, earth banks and car park height restrictions. All are very much thanks to councils having to pay vast sums to firstly get rid of then clear up after these vermin. 

Trust me 30 years of experience shows me this. If you have any doubt ask yourself..... would you like 10 15 vans to move into your area. Would you feel comfortable in your own home with them there. Would you happily walk past their camp? 

Go on I challenge someone to prove me and many others wrong. 

I know this is a strong view and likely to get some criticism.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

It has been said on more than one forum that the younger gypsies are moving to motorhomes from caravans.

It pains me greatly to call them 'gypsies'as they are in effect Irish travellers, who have left Ireland because of changes in Irish Law. The UK is NOT unfriendly to travellers, that is why we have so many. I am waiting for the Government to do as promised and make trespass a Criminal offence instead of a Civil one. Once that is done, they will be offski to somewhere easier to make a living.

Personally, I am appalled at their use of motorhomes as I have 4 Whippets and could be easily confused as a ***** with his Lurchers. 8O 

I remember Romanies and Gypsies from my youth and they bear no resemblance to the present day Irish travelling community. Some very good friends of ours (a married couple) originate from the old Travelling Show community and settled in one place when they married. They are the finest and most helpful couple you could ever wish to meet and I count myself lucky to know them.


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## bigfrank3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Well said Patrick.

bigfrank3


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

First off I am not intending to have a go or upset anyone.

There are 2 things about so called 'travellers' that confuse me.

1. If they are 'travellers' then why do councils provide permanent sites that they can live on 12 months of the year? The one close to us has static caravans on?

2. I understand that laws have passed to enable them to be granted special status as a distinct race or ethnic group, to give them legal protection from discrimination.
If this is true why do some of them seem to think it's fine to parkup and live on private property? If any non 'traveller' did the same they would be moved on very quickly. 

Is this not positive discrimination towards the 'travellers'?

As I said I don't intend to upset anyone and if I have I apologise. I am genuinely interested.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

There was a "Cops with cameras" TV prog the other night. They tried to stop a van with a young driver. He drove right into a gypsy encampment.

The trouble the cops had to even question the young driver who had no license or insurance. In the end they had to call for help as it ended up a brawl with screaming women and kids kicking and tugging at the police.

I guess this is normal behaviour and we shouldn't say anything against it?

Ray.


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Its a big question you have asked. The first problem is that the answers differ dependent on which group you are talking about.
Gypsies and Romanies have been naround since long before the English or even the Romans. They are basically nomadic races who travel along traditional paths depending, largely on their occupations. Many Gypsies were horse dealers and very honest ones. They would travel to where they found good trade built up over many years with the rural communities.
Before the settled races started to grab land and claim ownership if no-one came along to disprove their claims, these folk had set places where they would camp each time they passed through. They also used commons which belonged to the communities for the purpose and for commoners to graze their livestock free of charge or encumberance.
Unfortunately, they didin't have the written or even spoken skills to catch what was being done to them and gradually most of their traditional stopping places have been hijacked by unscrupulous land owners.
One of the worst of these was in the late 1970s when the government said that any common land that wasn't registered as such by their local communities would cease to be common land.
I only knew of this because I was a local councillor at the time and also lived in a rural community with great interest in grazing rights. The travelling folkn had no chance of getting to know about it, They certainly were not invited to register the commons they used if they did somehow get to know. For most travelling people they only found out several years later when a "new" landowner tried to block their use of the land.
Later additions to the travelling folk came the Irish tinkers and similar. These were people who couldn't survive in Ireland, which was grindingly poor. Many came over here and became vital to our growth; digging canals; laying railways etc, Unfortunately, there were others who didn't see anything wrong with stealing from the over-rich settlers who made up the English.
Later still, came the alienated of our own youngsters who decided that they didn't want the very presciptive way of life the establishment were adopting. Many of them were children of the people who came back from the war to the non-existent "Land fit for Heros" and preferred to live as travellers than just sit at home unemployed because there was so little work around. This latter group was not welcomed by any of the others, didn't know where the land the gypsies and Romanies used.
They became vagabonds and because they spent somuch of their time being persued byt hte authorities, they often left a great mess in their wake. The decendents of these "New Age Travellers" are the most likely to create the mess people see and sadly, do figure quite strongly in local minor crime waves.
Sorry, Ched999uk, that is a long answer but I hope you can see why it has to be.
One last point. Romanies (not Romanians!), Gypsies etc are recognised as ethnic groups. They do not enjoy any special consideration under the law any more than the ethnic groups such as Scots or Welsh would.
I hope that helps a little.
Patrick


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
How many times has it been said on here,"There is safety in numbers" when questions are asked about Wild camping,also,"If it does not feel right,move on",hence the gangs. Not for one second do i condone the state these Gypsies?,leave the area in,but even two or three genuine m/homes parked up in a country beauty spot, can leave the local people feeling abused,they have chosen to live there,for the same reason M/homers want to Wild camp or freeload in that spot because it WAS? a place of tranquility.
A saint of a teacher,whilst trying to instil knowledge into me,managed to make this nearly unforgetable,something like, "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". He said,if you lean on a tree,the tree will lean back on you......To much information!.also,you could use this theory when playing snooker,YES,result.
So,you do not like them,they do not like you,simple as that,do not under estimate them,because they could probably buy and sell you,many have superb bungalows/houses,in the most sort after areas in Ireland. If you want to stop them parking anywhere,do not do it yourselves.There are plenty of sites you can use and they cannot.
Patrick. Sunday name.(And if cornered,LOL)


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

The simple explanation to all woes here and many seen recently, is nothing more, or nothing less than the simple words...


" Because they can or believe they can get away with it "

There is no other explanation be it politicians fiddling expenses, flipping houses, youth rioting, bla bla bla...

Funny thing is the descent "youth" holds the 60 plus generation responsible for the slow decline born out your youths hippyism and drug fueled debauched lifestyle !!!!!!


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

raynipper said:


> There was a "Cops with cameras" TV prog the other night. They tried to stop a van with a young driver. He drove right into a gypsy encampment.
> 
> The trouble the cops had to even question the young driver who had no license or insurance. In the end they had to call for help as it ended up a brawl with screaming women and kids kicking and tugging at the police.
> 
> ...


Ray, I have seen that sort of thing happen on a number of housing estates where I used to live. They weren't gypsies - they were just poor folk who see the world as made up of those who have and themselves.
I would lay a sizeable bet that there wasn't a Gypsy or Romany within two miles of the incident you saw on the telly. But they use the terms without care or discrimination because they don't fear being sued.
Patrick


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

Patrick_Phillips, thanks very much for the explanation.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Patrick_Phillips said:


> , ........these folk had set places where they would camp each time they passed through.
> 
> Patrick


Interesting account Patrick, thank you.

Around the middle of September each year, I used to pass a small encampment of traditional horsedrawn caravans on the same patch of downland on my way to school. They arrived, regular as clockwork, with several " spare" horses which grazed the land, they stayed about a week and then were off. They were by their appearance and dress, I think, real Romanies.

After they had gone there was not even a sign of burnt grass and you'd not have known they'd been. They'd built fires but I guess taken up the sod and replaced it when they left. One year they did not turn up and I never saw them again but looked out for them each year.

G


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We see groups of 'Travellers' descend on nearby towns here in Normandy from time to time. They vary from a dozen to hundreds.

Mostly tidy and clean and always leave a neat pile of black plastic bags of trash near the entrance to the car park.

So far so good.
But at the same time there is a sudden increase of white van man coming down our lane and slowly turning on my land looking at any opportunity.
Plod warned us to keep things locked when they were in town.

Ray.


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## alitone (Jun 17, 2009)

raynipper said:


> We see groups of 'Travellers' descend on nearby towns here in Normandy from time to time. They vary from a dozen to hundreds.
> 
> Mostly tidy and clean and always leave a neat pile of black plastic bags of trash near the entrance to the car park.
> 
> ...


People can make up any excuse they like for Travallers, Gypsies Romanies or whatever they want to call themselves but sorry all they have to do is respect the local community wherever they come to rest, and im sure they will have an easier life. We went to an M.C.C. Rally and our chairman was told to "..... off " by the leader of the Council as he thought County Hall car parkhad been invaded by Gypsies . see the bother that cause us all...


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

stevee4 said:


> would you like 10 15 vans to move into your area.


Whether I like it or not, they do.



stevee4 said:


> Would you feel comfortable in your own home with them there.


Yep.



stevee4 said:


> Would you happily walk past their camp?


Daily. No problems.



stevee4 said:


> Go on I challenge someone to prove me and many others wrong.


I think I just have.

Gerald


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## stevee4 (Oct 12, 2007)

How have you proved me wrong?
Im sorry as soon as you have had a problem or something stolen your attitude will change. I have known farmers whose fields have been useless for years after a visit, try being that liberal in their company.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

We have a duty moral and legal to provide for these people but councils don't so they get the clear up bills. It's cheaper to clean up after them then to provide for them. Let's face it providing for travellers of any type isn't a vote winner. My last wild camp (in Scotland) was with travellers and the local council was providing bin bags and collecting regularly.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

----- slow decline born out your youths hippyism and drug fueled debauched lifestyle !!!!!_

I wish :lol: :lol:

Another myth most of us just worked hard

I do not believe for one minute that all or even most travellers are thieving trouble makers. I remember groups of travellers in my youth
Today with all the byelaws it must be difficult for nomadic s to find a place to rest. Its bad enough finding a stopover for one motorhome
I think its sad that another way of life is frowned upon

Good account Patrick

Aldra _


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> We have a duty moral and legal to provide for these people


Don't include me in that "we".

A legal duty I cannot avoid but a moral one - why?

Their choice to live that way, why should I feel morally obliged to provide for them?

You clearly haven't had any experience of the devastation SOME of the travelling community can inflict on rural areas.

Next time you're on one of your UK tours, take a ride around the Essex countryside and see what extreme measures we've had to adopt to keep travellers/gypsies off private land.

Travellers smashing down gates and fences to gain access to fields is no different to the yobs who recently smashed up London streets.

What's even worse than their actions is their arrogance - "you can't touch me"

Nobody in Government, of any colour, has the balls to sort it.


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## mandyandandy (Oct 1, 2006)

A couple of weeks ago we stayed on the Aire at Le Crotoy in the field next to it was around 40 gypsy vans, spotless and put many on the Aire to shame. 

We were there 2 nights so not sure how long they had been there before that, on the day we were leaving we heard horns blowing and thought the police were there. It was just them leaving and saying goodbye to others, we went down to the bins (between the 2 fields) just after they had gone and you wouldn't have known anyone had been there 

We were very impress and felt like chasing after them and asking them to come over to the UK to give our lot some lessons. 

I am sure it is one of the main gripes about them in the UK is the mess they leave and the costs of tidying it up after them. 

Mandy


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I agree that some of the travelling community cause devestation

And some motor homers to

It isn't right to group them all together as thieving rubbish leaving louts

Obviously they are found more in the country, wouldn't we all like to be

Perhaps far too much of our countryside is privately owned by too few and a way of life is being not so slowly stifled

Aldra


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

stevee4 said:


> If you have any doubt ask yourself..... would you like 10 15 vans to move into your area. Would you feel comfortable in your own home with them there. Would you happily walk past their camp?
> 
> .


If- as many on here have- you've spent a night at the C&CC site in Oxford then you've been 100m from a huge traveller's site and that has not, I'd put money on it, caused you any problems or anyone else in the area.

Oxfordshire has a pretty enlightened attitude to travellers with many permanent camps and a good programme for integrating children into local schools while they are there. There are a number of traveller families whose surnames go back many many years and they are on school rolls as far back as they go.

There were , as I said in my earlier post, until a few years ago, communities of Romanies who used to visit the area but they did not stay long in any one place. They've been doing this for even more years and it is sad to see them disappear.

G


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