# Changing utilities - a cautionary tale!



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Due to rising bills I decided, as we are all advised to do, to investigate changing my line, broadband and mobile phone provider from BT to an alternative. I found Zen to be competive and set in motion the transfer from BT to Zen. 
Unfortunately Zen do not offer a service for mobiles so I chose Giff Gaff for the two, low usage, mobiles that we have.

Zen applied to BT for the transfer and it all went ahead though I did incur a fee of £80 for early termination of contract with BT. As it would not take me long to achieve that saving on my bills, by transferring to Zen, I accepted the hit. 

After a short while we realised that our mobiles were not getting any signal at all in our area and contacted BT to ask about a mobile only contract as I knew that we had coverage with them. They offered us a much better deal if we signed up to the whole package of line rental,broadband and mobile phones so we signed back up with them.

A while later I got a notification from Zen that we would incur charges ofover £370 for terminating the contract with them. I quickly contacted BT to cancel their contract but it was too late for them too, the 14 day cooling off period had passed and they were going to charge me over £300 if I terminated their contract!

By this time I did not know which way to turn and discussed my predicament with BT, telling them that I will have to stay with Zen and they then offered a maximum of £300 to buy me out of the contract with Zen. I had to accept this.

When I contacted Zen to ask them for a final invoice to present to BT they tell me that the £370 penalty is for cancelling the line rental only! If I want to cancel the broadband too it will be a further charge of £300 odd pounds!!!


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

I know most people do not do this, but read the small print. A lesson I learned through my own fault. 

I found out myself when I asked BT to change the name on my business contract. On the phone they said yes it can be done and as their will be no penalty. Only to find out to change names I had to sign a new contract, thus ending the old one early. Three months later a bill for £510 for early termination. Even though both were with BT. Same address, same number, same direct debit. The only thing that changed was the business name. It was all in the small print. They were correct. Eventually, months later I got the money back in full after I proved I was given false information on the phone. I requested a copy of the original phone call and this proved I was given false information.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks Revise. Glad I am not the only one. They did ask if I had read the terms and conditions. I said I had scanned them but not really taken them in. I am going to go through the complaints procedure to see how I get on. I, personally, do not think that a 14 day cooling off period is long enough. I was away for part of it and busy with other stuff for the rest of the time.


Because these things are all done by phone and email (which get lost) it is hard to pin down the facts. It is hard to remember the dates and the sequence of events even now, just a week or two after the negotiations. I wonder how the fact that they never mention any cancellation fees, during the sales pitch, would stand up to scrutiny. I am thinking of contacting my MP about the whole thing.


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

Interesting, have looked all over their website & cannot find any information regarding early termination of contracts. Have found lots of reviews about how marvellous they are. When I changed to OneSelect for my utilities that was one of the first things they advertised, no exit fees.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks Dave. To be fair the whole transfer and set up procedure was painless and they were always at the end of the telephone being very helpful.


I heard the word "retentions" as in the name of a department. One or two of the staff asked if I had spoken with them. It is, I assume the department that has the power to buy you out of other contracts. Customer services would go off to talk with "retentions" but I was never put through to them. This would point, I presume, to a lack of willingness to keep customers. There is mention of small businesses during phone conversations so I presume they are targeting them.


I have informed them that I will be going through the formal complaints procedure and someone is going to call me this morning.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Drop a line to Watchdog or Honest John.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Ooh yes! Forgot about Watchdog.


When I talk to customer complaints I am going to mention sites like the Moneysavingexpert, too. It is where people go to get recommendations and if there are bad reviews it will not help a new company like them.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I must admit Pat, I'm kinda scared about changing any utility here in France as you are cut off immediately you request a change and it could be weeks before the new service is connected.
Even just upgrading my adsl we were out of communication for 5 days until the new 'box' was detected.

So we put up with non existent customer service for a cheap deal.

Ray.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

I look after switching my mothers gas & electric. I tend to switch this every year or so for the best deal. I use the U switch site. 

Now my mothers present deal was up about 2 months ago and her present supplier are pushing her to have a smart meter fitted and she thinks this might help her. 

Now it's my understanding that once a smart meter is fitted these are only compatible with the current supplier so this causes big problems when you next intend to switch as the new supplier are very reluctant to fit a new meter. So basically you are then tied to whoever fitted the smart meter so after a fixed term they can charge you what they went to supply your gas & electric. 

Now again it's my understanding that the government want all homes to have a smart meter fitted by 2020. So 2020 could be the end to switching gas & electric which totally goes against them encouraging us to switch. 

Could any of you put me right on this please??


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I understand the move to get everyone onto a so called 'smart' meter is adding £50 a year to customers bills. They only benefit the supplier and not the user.

Ray.


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## paulmold (Apr 2, 2009)

We can't have a smart meter. Had an engineer come to fit one but he said that he couldn't get a phone signal in the cupboard where the electric meter is and therefore he couldn't fit one. So what now? I'd like to know who is paying for all these meters, presumably us through higher costs of gas and electric. Can the government make us have one. I really don't see how they make us use less energy. If we see we are using too much and we think we won't be able to pay, are we going to switch everything off and freeze. The government are always telling us to keep warm in winter as we get old.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

The 14 day cooling off period is the minimum legal requirement under the Distance Selling Regulations. 14 days is the accepted norm now for such contracts, so I think you would struggle to argue with that one I'm afraid

Graham :serious:


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## teljoy (Jul 4, 2005)

fdhadi said:


> I look after switching my mothers gas & electric. I tend to switch this every year or so for the best deal. I use the U switch site.
> 
> Now my mothers present deal was up about 2 months ago and her present supplier are pushing her to have a smart meter fitted and she thinks this might help her.
> 
> ...


We have been told that everyone must change their electricity meters soon. This is I believe government policy. At the same time we were told they would fit the smart meter. From what I have read it is not yet compulsory (for a few years?) to have a smart meter so when the company (EON) rang to arrange a fitting date we said we did not want a smart meter. Our reasons were that on change of supplier it is not always possible to transfer the smart meter and the information on usage is not always correct. The benefit is to the supplier who does not have to read the meter. However we always send our readings in online.

After a discussion with the person who rang they have agreed to fit a "classic" meter and not a smart meter. We had a less modern bit of equipment similar to a smart meter a couple of years ago and it did nothing for us. The fact that it told us what we were using did not encourage us to use less as we are older people brought up on being careful with what we use.

I hope this has helped you. You do not have to have a smart meter yet!!

Terry


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

As it is not yet compulsory we also will not be fitting a smart meter until compelled to do so. 

I much prefer others to be the guinea pigs on this one given the issues over switching suppliers/incorrect readings etc.

Plus Mrs GMJ says I'll just sit there watching the blessed thing moaning about the cost, if we get one...


Graham:smile2:

















PS...she's right!:grin2:


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

GMJ said:


> As it is not yet compulsory we also will not be fitting a smart meter until compelled to do so.
> 
> I much prefer others to be the guinea pigs on this one given the issues over switching suppliers/incorrect readings etc.
> 
> ...


You're very wise Graham, I have worked many years in the metering industry and the initial roll out of smart meters is just another IT government driven screw up.

They allowed the roll out to start before the comms issues were sorted, I will not be having one until they sort it out or come with a warrant to gain access to their equipment. The current winners are the meter manufacturers and as usual it's us the customers who pay the costs.

The link below highlights the cock up very well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/05/millions-smart-meters-may-need-replacing-due-blunder/

Terry


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

patp said:


> Ooh yes! Forgot about Watchdog.
> 
> When I talk to customer complaints I am going to mention sites like the Moneysavingexpert, too. It is where people go to get recommendations and if there are bad reviews it will not help a new company like them.


Yes their reviews are particularly good on Trustpilot it seems.

Funny though that they are shown a rating of 8.7/10 & great whereas all the competitors are shown as between 0.4/10 & 2.7/10 & bad: https://www.zen.co.uk/yourhome/


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We hired a gadget from the Library that told us what each appliance was using. Is this the sort of smart meter they are installing? If so, why cannot they be wireless ones, that are returned to the issuing company?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Further to my original post. What do others think I should do given that Zen say that the broadband contract has not been cancelled with them?
Does it mean that BT have made an error and that I have a package with them that does not include broadband? I would assume so.
What difference will it make to me if Zen supply the broadband and BT supply the line and mobile phones. 
Am I getting a "good" deal with BT because I signed up for the package of Line Rental/Broadband/Mobiles? If I tell BT that Zen still provide me with Broadband what will they do? 
I assume I am paying for Broadband with BT and with Zen at the moment. Will the fact that leaving my Broadband with Zen will save me a cancellation fee of over £300 make up for the fact that I am paying both companies (I assume) for supplying me with Broadband?


I suppose it all depends on how much Zen charges for broadband? If it is less than £300 per year then I could just keep quiet and wait for my contract with Zen to expire and then cancel?


I have initiated a complaints procedure with them. My complaint is that the terms of cancellation were never fully explained. Also that their notification of the cancellation charge was sent late and I was not given sufficient time to cancel the BT contract within the 14 days cooling off period.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

patp said:


> We hired a gadget from the Library that told us what each appliance was using. Is this the sort of smart meter they are installing? If so, why cannot they be wireless ones, that are returned to the issuing company?


Every electrical appliance has it's power rating and therefore consumption stuck on it.
Pretty obvious a 2,000 watt appliance consumes more than a 200 watt one. Hardly rocket science.
Do we need a smart anything to tell us the obvious?

Ray.


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## teljoy (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by patp View Post
We hired a gadget from the Library that told us what each appliance was using. Is this the sort of smart meter they are installing? If so, why cannot they be wireless ones, that are returned to the issuing company?

Every electrical appliance has it's power rating and therefore consumption stuck on it.
Pretty obvious a 2,000 watt appliance consumes more than a 200 watt one. Hardly rocket science.
Do we need a smart anything to tell us the obvious?

Ray.

The smart bit is supposed to be that the usage of your electricity is returned to your supplier automatically and saves the company from having to read your meter. No benefit to us.

Terry


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

SMARTMETERS: related to electricity supply. 90y old Dad got one, changed suppliers. Now brother spends time sending readings manually AND it's a pain getting the meter to read in cu.m (required by supplier) rather than kWh (default unit). ALL meters are supposed to be cross-compatible from 2017: I'll wait and see! :frown2:

OP - PHONE/BROADBAND ETC: Sorry I can't help directly: you need to do all of the sums and see what gives you the best option. :wink2:

CAUTIONARY TALE: looking through 89y old MiL bank statement, she was paying BT £24pm for "free" evening & weekend calls AND TalkTalk £35pm for "free" evening & weekend calls plus broadband". Found out from BT that this had been going on for 6y >

BT agreed to cancel their service *immediately *but said TalkTalk would need to refund the £1200+ that she'd overpaid, as they had failed to notify BT that TT were taking over the service. :surprise:

TT said "no - BT are supplying the line, we give you the service: no line = no service"!:crying:

BT said "sorry, we need 24h to stop an instruction" so a vulnerable lady was left in her home with no telephone before a new line number was issued, then it was "generously" changed back to the old number (further 24h delay).  That needed a new contract taking out and broadband couldn't be available for 5days. IF we'd taken out broadband over the internet, she would have qualified for a £75 gift voucher: because she had to do it over a phoneline, she wasn't eligible.

Then TT "lost" MiLs email account and it took 3 weeks and numerous phone calls to get access to it again.

BT have since credited her account with £30 as a gesture of goodwill, after a lot of "discussion". :grin2:

Personally, I've never had any problems swapping providers on an annual basis where advantageous. However, pay some attention to T&Cs, check dates for terminations etc (write on calendar) and IF they say "this will cost more because ......" STOP and pay serious attention to T&Cs

Gordon

Just remembered: I did have a problem when BT informed me on 10th July that they were raising their line rental, giving me 30days from 31st July to leave their service. I rang immediately to check my new costs and told them I would leave. Then I had 2 weeks holiday and arranged a new provider to start on 20th August. BT insisted that my 30 days started from the time I *told *them I was leaving, so I would be charged £60. In the end I gave in because I would only have saved £45 by the time I would be out of contract.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Line rental ; all calls (daytime, evenings and weekends); 1000 mins landline to mobile calls; and internet ........all for £23 per month with EE!

Job jobbed!:grin2:

Graham :smile2:


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Crikey Patp what a mess and a trap any pf us could have fallen into, i think i would try the telecoms ombudsman Especially as you were inticed back by new lower offer , so why didnt they offer that deal in the first place


Fahadi as far as i am aware Smart meters are currently specific to individual providers, i wont switch until the universal meters are available some time in the future that will be compatable with all providers

When they ring me to arrange a smart meter installation i just tell them i am thinking of switch sonthey accept that and go away


Have you seen the pay they are offering smart meter installers after a bit of training !


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I gave up on TalkTalk when kept getting hacked  They were cheap though.


Thank goodness your elderly relatives have you Gordon.


Thanks for the ombudsman tip.


Added to all this trauma - I am trying to resolve a mis selling of Damage Waiver insurance that we fell foul of when hiring a car through Budget/Avis in Spain at Easter. They grabbed over £600 from our credit card. Turned out that although we verbally turned down their offer of Damage Waiver insurance they still included it in the document they asked us to sign at the collection desk in Spain! So, they have a signature that we were coerced into signing when we clearly turned it down verbally. As far as we were concerned we were just signing to collect the vehicle.


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