# reverse polarity



## 362bkr

Hi all i am off to France next week (first time) and have been reading about reverse polarity on ehu and how to deal with it . Surely a french built Rapido should not have an issue anyway or should it ?


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## listerdiesel

Continental 2-pin plugs in general are reversible in the socket you plug in to.

The van has no way of coping with that, other than providing an alarm.

Peter


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## raynipper

Forget it. Look for something else to worry about.

Ray.


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## tonyt

raynipper said:


> Forget it. Look for something else to worry about.
> 
> Ray.


Like gassing?

Sorry - really forget that one too :lol:


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## Penquin

listerdiesel said:


> Continental 2-pin plugs in general are reversible in the socket you plug in to.
> 
> The van has no way of coping with that, other than providing an alarm.
> 
> Peter


No, they are not, power sockets usually have an earth connection as well.....

the two pins are the live and neutral and there is a socket for the earth connection to fit into - this ensures it can only be connected one way round.

Only the "flat" two pin ones for e.g. lights do not have an earth connection/

If you come across solely a 2 pin POWER connection I would avoid it like the plague......

But reverse polarity is a good discussion point, but will not cause you any problems as the idea of reversed polarity does not work with AC - there are numerous threads on here.

If you have a polarity tester you will find that many are "reversed" - including parts of our house.....

It is only a potential problem if you decide to dismantle some UK built electrical item, thinking that the switch has isolated the live, it may not do so - we don't have switches on sockets (they do not seem to exist in France), so if any work is needed on any item, disconnect it completely before dismantling it.

Relax you will not have a problem but if you are really determined a plug in polarity tester will also give you important information about the earth connection too - so that is worth carrying for use whenever you connect to EHU. You can get (or make) a short section of suitable flex with the connections reversed *BUT MARK IT CLEARLY TO AVOID POTENTIAL MISUSE OR DANGER.*

Dave


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## bigcats30

It will not cause you any problems at all..save the cash for wine

forget about it


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## Mrplodd

So if reversed polarity ISNT any sort of issue why are there very strict regulations in respect of how cable is colour coded and very strict regulations as to who can install electrical wiring in domestic properties??


Try selling a house and you will quickly find out just how many certificates you have to have to prove that the electrical wiring etc is fit for purpose.


This is not meant to be a wind up sort of question :roll: I am asking a serious question


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## bigcats30

Mrplodd said:


> So if reversed polarity ISNT any sort of issue why are there very strict regulations in respect of how cable is colour coded and very strict regulations as to who can install electrical wiring in domestic properties??
> 
> Try selling a house and you will quickly find out just how many certificates you have to have to prove that the electrical wiring etc is fit for purpose.
> 
> This is not meant to be a wind up sort of question :roll: I am asking a serious question


Why hasn't someone died of this so called problem?

Why hasn't anyone taken the UK MH industry to court whilst they knowing supply you with a product that is life threatening if used overseas (which you would have told them you were going to do)?

because it isn't a problem for the normal user...otherwise the UK industry would by law have to take this into account.


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## HarleyDave

As previously mentioned - in UK we generally have single pole switched devices.

In Europe - they generally have double pole switched devices.

In UK if you switch something off, AND it is cross wired in the feed to the item AND you then disassemble the item you COULD be in trouble as the item would not be isolated since the switch would effectively be on the neutral side instead of the live side.

That is why, I believe, the regs are so strict - although if you are not qualified/experienced and start poking around inside items that are not 100% disconnected you probably deserve what you MAY get.

Cheers

Dave


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## raynipper

As more and more regulations have tried to manage and regulate a whole host of variations of electrical installations over the years, we now have so many rules and inspections drawn up by academics, we are drowning in regs.

Years ago we both lines fused. Danger of the neg blowing and appliance still live.
Then ring main and 13a live fused and switched. Safe apart from idiots.
Then ELCBs when an earth leak cut the breaker.
Then RCDBs when if one line was out of balance it cut the power.

The latest safety breakers will cut the power if you look sideways or sneeze neat a plug. Why worry about polarity.???

Ray.


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## Zebedee

Yawn!

Please Lord - not another 30 pages of lamentably ill informed debate! :roll:

For a start, "reversed polarity" is a total misnomer. How can polarity make the slightest difference to an *alternating *current?


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## raynipper

Zebedee said:


> Yawn!
> 
> Please Lord - not another 30 pages of lamentably ill informed debate! :roll:
> 
> For a start, "reversed polarity" is a total misnomer. How can polarity make the slightest difference to an *alternating *current?


I agree about the repeat and drawn out thread. But .......................

Stand with your hand on a water tap and put one finger on the Neg wire............................... ziltch.
Now put yer finger on the Pos wire ......................... Zap.!!!!!

Ray.


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## Zebedee

raynipper said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn!
> 
> Please Lord - not another 30 pages of lamentably ill informed debate! :roll:
> 
> For a start, "reversed polarity" is a total misnomer. How can polarity make the slightest difference to an *alternating *current?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree about the repeat and drawn out thread. But .......................
> 
> Stand with your hand on a water tap and put one finger on the Neg wire............................... ziltch.
> Now put yer finger on the Pos wire ......................... Zap.!!!!!
> 
> Ray.
Click to expand...

A neatly misleading comment Ray - as you well know. :lol: :lol:

I'm just a bit surprised if that's how you get your kicks. Does it make the earth move for you? :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## listerdiesel

Penquin said:


> No, they are not, power sockets usually have an earth connection as well.....
> the two pins are the live and neutral and there is a socket for the earth connection to fit into - this ensures it can only be connected one way round.
> Dave


The one we have which is used for more than one European country has two round pins and a double edge connection for the Earth.










It is entirely reversible.

Even the ones that have the screw-in earth pin are reversible without the pin.




























Peter


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## Glandwr

Is the water safe to drink over there?

Dick


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## Espana_Pete

Strangely enough, I am still strugling to understand this. Here in Spain, appliances are built to cope with reverse polarity as the household plugs can be inserted into the sockets any way round.

I bought a "Ring" battery charger in the UK and brought it with me to Spain. I had occassion to ruin a new battery somehow, so asked Ring help line if reverse polarity matters to their charger. They told me in no uncertain terms DO NOT USE IT IN SPAIN.

I have since seen the very same model on sale here in Spain!

Strange or what?


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## raynipper

I have found ELCB and RCDBs a pain.
Being of the old school, I use a test lamp (7 to 25 watt) to check which wire is live.
One probe on earth and immediately you put the other probe on either wire, breaker trips.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Ray.


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## 362bkr

As i started this thread can i also ask what is best A class motorhomes or c lass motorhomes and also is the caravan club better than the caravan and camping club...............................ONLY JOKING !!!!


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## bigcats30

362bkr said:


> As i started this thread can i also ask what is best A class motorhomes or c lass motorhomes and also is the caravan club better than the caravan and camping club...............................ONLY JOKING !!!!


If you really want to cause a row...ask about gassing!!


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## Zebedee

362bkr said:


> As i started this thread can i also ask what is best A class motorhomes or c lass motorhomes and also is the caravan club better than the caravan and camping club...............................ONLY JOKING !!!!


You might be joking, but watch this space for a week or two and there will be a post exactly like those from someone who isn't!!

What do you mean by "_gassing_" Biggy? Is there something I should know about??

Dave


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## drcotts

Irrespective of whos right and whose wrong the poor OP may have a mains control unit like mine that wont let you use it if the polarity is reveresed.

So get yourself a reverse wired hook up in any case
Phill


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## bigcats30

Zebedee said:


> 362bkr said:
> 
> 
> 
> As i started this thread can i also ask what is best A class motorhomes or c lass motorhomes and also is the caravan club better than the caravan and camping club...............................ONLY JOKING !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> You might be joking, but watch this space for a week or two and there will be a post exactly like those from someone who isn't!!
> 
> What do you mean by "_gassing_" Biggy? Is there something I should know about??
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Surely you know??

or are you winding me up?


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## Zebedee

drcotts said:


> Irrespective of whos right and whose wrong the poor OP may have a mains control unit like mine that wont let you use it if the polarity is reversed.
> So get yourself a reverse wired hook up in any case
> Phill


What make of unit is that Phill?

Could be a real pain if you didn't know about it and went abroad without a reversing cable.

Incidentally, I agree about getting a cable for anyone who has the slightest concern about the issue. Whether or not it's a load of cobblers, if they have a worry niggling away at them they will not be able to relax and enjoy their holiday.

So . . . get a cable and relax. But be careful not to use it when the "polarity" is correct. :lol: :lol:

I jest, but only slightly. We met a couple at Annecy who asked (rather condescendingly) why I wasn't using one? They insisted that they *always *used one when abroad, and no amount of persuasion would convince them that most of the time they would be *creating *the very thing they were trying to avoid.

Dave


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## Zebedee

bigcats30 said:


> or are you winding me up?


Now would I do a thing like that Biggy! 

I founded the MHF Sceptics Club - cynical, disbelieving sods the lot of us.

Want to join?? :lol:


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## drcotts

Zebedee said:


> drcotts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Irrespective of whos right and whose wrong the poor OP may have a mains control unit like mine that wont let you use it if the polarity is reversed.
> So get yourself a reverse wired hook up in any case
> Phill
> 
> 
> 
> What make of unit is that Phill?
> 
> Could be a real pain if you didn't know about it and went abroad without a reversing cable.
Click to expand...

I dont know dave I will find out.

If your stuck like me and you know what your doing you can reverse the main hook up cable i about 10 mins and then swap it back again.

Phill


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## tonyt

Come on guys - this thread has been running for three and a half hours and you've only managed 3 pages.

I just did a search on the forum for "polarity"....... found 626 matches! :lol:


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## Evs54

Mrplodd said:


> So if reversed polarity ISNT any sort of issue why are there very strict regulations in respect of how cable is colour coded and very strict regulations as to who can install electrical wiring in domestic properties??
> 
> Try selling a house and you will quickly find out just how many certificates you have to have to prove that the electrical wiring etc is fit for purpose.
> 
> This is not meant to be a wind up sort of question :roll: I am asking a serious question


I agree , ok in AC it is called reverse wiring if this the case in a domestic installation it will fail and a certificate will not be issued and that is a fact . During a habitation check if there is reverse wiring then it should fail . If a short circuit or overload occurs and the mcb trips then in a reverse wiring situation the neutral could still be live . When are people on these motorhome forums going to give in to a bit of common sense and just advise novices to purchase a reverse wiring lead and socket tester for the sake of £10 I have both wouldn't be without it .


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## bigcats30

Evs54 said:


> Mrplodd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if reversed polarity ISNT any sort of issue why are there very strict regulations in respect of how cable is colour coded and very strict regulations as to who can install electrical wiring in domestic properties??
> 
> Try selling a house and you will quickly find out just how many certificates you have to have to prove that the electrical wiring etc is fit for purpose.
> 
> This is not meant to be a wind up sort of question :roll: I am asking a serious question
> 
> 
> 
> I agree , ok in AC it is called reverse wiring if this the case in a domestic installation it will fail and a certificate will not be issued and that is a fact . During a habitation check if there is reverse wiring then it should fail . If a short circuit or overload occurs and the mcb trips then in a reverse wiring situation the neutral could still be live . When are people on these motorhome forums going to give in to a bit of common sense and just advise novices to purchase a reverse wiring lead and socket tester for the sake of £10 I have both wouldn't be without it .
Click to expand...

Fail what?

There is no certified test that you the owner is required to do in both gas or electrics to your van.

And again if this is such a problem why has

1. no one ever knowingly been killed in their caravan or MH because of RP?(10's if not 100's of thousands of people travel to Europe each year in MH's and Caravans)

2. No law been made that UK manufactured caravans and MH's be built with RP in mind as they are likely to be taken to Europe?

3. No one has ever taken the MH UK motorhome industry to court over this seemingly massive problem which is according to some a potential killer.

Especially when health and safety in this country deems kids playing conkers to dangerous

When are people in these forums going to give into a bit of common sense and realise...it's not a problem.


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## Evs54

bigcats30 said:


> Evs54 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mrplodd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if reversed polarity ISNT any sort of issue why are there very strict regulations in respect of how cable is colour coded and very strict regulations as to who can install electrical wiring in domestic properties??
> 
> Try selling a house and you will quickly find out just how many certificates you have to have to prove that the electrical wiring etc is fit for purpose.
> 
> This is not meant to be a wind up sort of question :roll: I am asking a serious question
> 
> 
> 
> I agree , ok in AC it is called reverse wiring if this the case in a domestic installation it will fail and a certificate will not be issued and that is a fact . During a habitation check if there is reverse wiring then it should fail . If a short circuit or overload occurs and the mcb trips then in a reverse wiring situation the neutral could still be live . When are people on these motorhome forums going to give in to a bit of common sense and just advise novices to purchase a reverse wiring lead and socket tester for the sake of £10 I have both wouldn't be without it .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fail what?
> 
> There is no certified test that you the owner is required to do in both gas or electrics to your van.
> 
> And again if this is such a problem why has
> 
> 1. no one ever knowingly been killed in their caravan or MH because of RP?(10's if not 100's of thousands of people travel to Europe each year in MH's and Caravans)
> 
> 2. No law been made that UK manufactured caravans and MH's be built with RP in mind as they are likely to be taken to Europe?
> 
> 3. No one has ever taken the MH UK motorhome industry to court over this seemingly massive problem which is according to some a potential killer.
> 
> Especially when health and safety in this country deems kids playing conkers to dangerous
> 
> When are people in these forums going to give into a bit of common sense and realise...it's not a problem.
Click to expand...

What's the point when there are so many know it all's that know nothing


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## Penquin

listerdiesel said:


> The one we have which is used for more than one European country has two round pins and a double edge connection for the Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is entirely reversible.
> 
> Even the ones that have the screw-in earth pin are reversible without the pin.
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> Peter


Thanks for posting those pictures, it was my intention to do so but I had to take the MH to Bergerac for it's Controle Technique - which it sadly did not pass due to the rear brakes being lower than required - so back tomorrow to find out the reason for that (Lack of use recently?)

The pictures you posted show exactly what I was saying, I have labelled the pins and reposted them below, in those two the Earth pin which is in the socket NOT the plug dictates which way round the plug can be inserted, this is the deciding factor, the metallic strips on the side are supplementary but the pin is the determining factor as regards insertion......

The labelling as regards live and neutral seems arbitrary in many sockets, even when professionally wired........

The provision of the Earth socket in the plug for the Earth pin in the socket is the crucial factor (and is a bu88er to wire up as it is often recessed and often very difficult to get a wire into ..... :lol: ), I have only rewired about 200 of these in the last two years......as I changed from UK square three pin to French 2 pin + earth.

Dave


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## listerdiesel

It only becomes a problem in fault conditions, and even then, it should not cause a personal hazard or fire if the attached motorhome's electrics are in good condition and operating correctly.

Buying a 'reverse polarity cable' is not really answering the issue, but it does kick the 'problem' under the table for a while.

How many people on MHF know how their m/h is wired? How many know in detail what all the bits do and more importantly, how many regularly test their electrics? When did you last check your RCD's operation?

Peter


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## raynipper

Your right Peter.
But I guess there are hundreds of important things we don't check until there is a problem, home and vans.

I recently had to put the spare wheel on my wifes car. It is 21 years old and works. 

Ray.


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## Zebedee

Evs54 said:


> What's the point when there are so many know it all's that know nothing


Rather than chuck your teddy out of the pram, why not explain the problem, in simple terms, to we simple people? :roll:

I'm sure a lot of us would be very interested, and genuinely relieved to admit we are wrong if you can protect us from danger.

Dave


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## Evs54

Zebedee said:


> Evs54 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point when there are so many know it all's that know nothing
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than chuck your teddy out of the pram, why not explain the problem, in simple terms, to we simple people? :roll:
> 
> I'm sure a lot of us would be very interested, and genuinely relieved to admit we are wrong if you can protect us from danger.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

You obviously did not read my post fully .


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## Zebedee

Evs54 said:


> You obviously did not read my post fully .


Looks like I didn't read it at all! 

We've been out all day and I must have missed it when catching up - will look back and peruse with interest.

Dave


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## Zebedee

Evs54 said:


> You obviously did not read my post fully .


OK - read it now, but I can't resist throwing the accusation back at you . . . in the nicest possible way of course! :wink:



Evs54 said:


> When are people on these motorhome forums going to give in to a bit of common sense and just advise novices to purchase a reverse wiring lead and socket tester for the sake of £10 I have both wouldn't be without it .


From my earlier post at 4.12pm . . . . _"Incidentally, I agree about getting a cable for anyone who has the slightest concern about the issue. Whether or not it's a load of cobblers, if they have a worry niggling away at them they will not be able to relax and enjoy their holiday.

So . . . get a cable and relax. But be careful not to use it when the "polarity" is correct . . . . . "_

Dave


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