# Interior Lighting



## freewheeler (Nov 6, 2005)

I have got an oldish MH (1989) with 3 12v flourescent strip lights and they are not very bright (in fact very d i m) and I want to upgrade. What do I go for? Are halogen 12v lights much brighter and can you get halogen general lighting or can you only get spot type halogen lights? Do I need mains lighting? Would upgrading the tubes in the exisitng lighting make any difference - I think they are 8 or 12 watt? If fitting halogen lighting can I just break into the existing lighting wires and add anoher light to the circuit. Grateful for your help - thanks.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi 
First thing I would do is renew all existing lamps and clean inside the defusers, they lose output after a while. 
Halogen only come in spot lamps, good for directional lighting but the drawback is they use more current than a fluorescent. 
Mains lighting is possible but is it really needed?


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Hi FW, are the lights any brighter if you switch the charger on ?
I agree with Scot JimLand, you should renew any that are dim, one of mine was getting a bit dim recently and wouldn't start properly unless the charger was on so I replaced it and it's fine now.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi freewheeler

Welcome to the forum, hope you get all the information you need.

One thing to be careful of if fitting halogen lighting is that your existing wiring and battery setup is man enough for the job. To get a decent coverage from halogen spots you will need to install several in place of your existing flourescents. Three 8/12 watt flourescents will consume up to 3 amps total whereas the six or eight halogen spots that you might replace them with could take up to 13 amps and may overload the wiring/battery in an older van. I would go for fitting a couple of new, more efficient flourescents in place of your existing ones on the existing circuit to give you general lighting, then fit four to six halogens placed in areas where you need intense light on a new, seperately switched circuit that you can use for work lights or reading (and switch off if your battery is getting low).


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Freewheeler 

Welcome, one thing to consider, if you have the extra space is to fit double tubed flourescents instead of singles then no extra wiring needed.

Ken S.


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## freewheeler (Nov 6, 2005)

Many thanks for comments - a few more questions: One of the posts mentions new lights - resumably you just mean the tubes and not the whole units? Could someone point me in the direction of 'more efficient" flourescent light units - e.g. make/manuf/type/stockist etc. My units at the mo' are double units - we were sat in Homebase car park eating our takeaway last night (as you do, isn't that what all new MHs do?!) and the street lights were giving more light than our dim affairs (the lights, not the dinner partner). Also, there does not seem to be much diff between brightness when off or on the hook-up.


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

*Fluorescent lights*

You need only replace the tubes - they get dimmer as they age (I know the feeling!) . Because they dim slowly you don't notice them going, but you'll notice the difference with new tubes - about £2.50 each. I'm not aware of any new and more efficient units - we've been promised LED lighting for years, but it has only made it to torches so far.

Andy


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Hi that is strange, my lights are noticeably brighter when the battery charger is on. Have you checked the battery voltage lately? On and Off charge. I think a battery that has not been charged for a few hours should read 12.6 volts or more whereas when charging should be 13.8 volts up to 14.4 volts depending on the state of charge of the battery and the type of charger unit.
Any way in my van I have 3 doubles along the centre of the roof of which I only have 1 or 2 on to give fairly good general lighting. I have a single over each side window for reading etc, a single over the sink/cooker area and a single in the toilet. Even the single ones give out a fair amount of light. So I think you should investigate a little bit to see what the problem is as IMO 2 doubles should give plenty of general light.
Most caravan accessory shops sell the double or single units if your ones turn out to be the problem.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Take a look on Ebay, there are usually some fairly stylish 12v flourescents on there (try a search on "lumo" for a start. You could of course just replace the tubes as someone has suggested, that might just do the trick. In our last van we had a very efficient one that used a bulb similar to the domestic "low energy" lamps but unfortunately I can't remember the make of it!


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi freewheeler,

yes it is true that fluorescent tubes loose efficiency when they come into age. So there is probably no way around replacing them. (Well, sometimes it helps to _clean_ them, but I assume you have already thought about that... :wink: )

There are lamp units available for 12 V halogen "bulbs" which provide a more diffuse, ambient light than spots. However, be aware that halogen lamps consume about 2.5 times as much energy to provide the same amount of light as a fluorescent tube. So your electrics have to cope with that should you change over.

Regarding LEDs: Current white LEDs still produce an (in my eyes) uncomfortable "cold" light. In addition they are still very expensive and their efficiency is - against all rumours - _not better than that of a new fluorescent tube!_ I fully agree that LEDs are probably the light source of the future, but we are not there yet. Their advantage however is that they are practically ever-lasting and do not loose efficiency with age.

So I would recommend that you stay with the fluorescent tubes. And if new tubes do not help, then check the voltage. Maybe there is some bad wiring somewhere.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## freewheeler (Nov 6, 2005)

Many thanks for posts so far. Tonght I plugged in my mains hook-up, hoping to see some difference with the already described dim lights but there was none, not even a flicker when switching over - is this normal or do you think there is a wiring prob somewhere? The RCD tester thing works and the one mains socket in the MH does work as well so mains is getting in but I was hoping to see some difference in the lights. Thoughts please......


Dom M


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Have you checked if the battery charger is working? :?:


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Agree with phil. The battery charger has to be the place to start. I would expect to see the lights go brighter if I switched over to mains....

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Keith


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

I agree with the above about the charger ... Do they get brighter when you start the engine ? If so then it points to a charger problem ..


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

I also agree with Kands and Phil that the charger should be the starting point for investigation.

However, do not expect really worn-out fluorescent tubes to get any brighter. And, with their electronic control gear they have for 12 volts, the tubes do not start to flicker when worn out like they would on AC 230 volts. They just become dimmer and dimmer...

Freewheeler, 
if you are not sure then just try to replace _one tube_ for the beginning and see whether it has any effect.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## freewheeler (Nov 6, 2005)

I know where the hook-up lead comes in, RCD etc, and I know where my Zig unit is but what does the charger bit look like - will there be a separate box somewhere between the Zig and the battery? There does not seem to be any other control/boxes/wire thingys or such like near to the battery (which is located in the bottom of the wardrobe just behind the Zig unit). Thanks..............

Novice !!


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## Brambles (May 12, 2005)

Hi , I will throw in something else to confuse the issue. Not so much to do with dim lights but more on purchasing replacement tubes. There are usually different 'colour temperatures available'. most common being Cool white and the other Interna. Cool White is 3500K and Interna, which is a much softer light. I find the 3500K lamps a bit harsh although do give the appearance of being brighter than the softer 2700 light. 

Most new Motorhomes fitted with Halogen lighting as well , have 2700K fitted to the fluorescent units so it closer matches the colour temp of the halogens.

Yes! agree it is worth checking lamps get brighter on starting engine to eliminate battery charger problems, but increase in brightemess maty be limited as lamps are ageing and voltage control circuits in Lamp's electronics, but renewing lamps is probably well over due. Cheapest source for replacement tubes is a good electrical factors - should be a lot cheaper than Caravan accessory shops and will have a choice of temp. 
Jon.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

freewheeler said:


> I know where the hook-up lead comes in, RCD etc, and I know where my Zig unit is but what does the charger bit look like


Hi Freewheeler,

the Zig unit _is the charger!_ You should check the voltage at the output of the Zig. It should raise significantly (from around 12.1 to at least 13.something volts) in the moment you connect the hookup. If it does not then disconnect the 12 volts cables and try again. The voltage should then rise from 0 to 13+. If not, then it is defective.

If it does that then follow the wires from the Zig to the battery. Do you find the same voltage at the battery? If not, then you probably have broken wires or rotten contacts or fuses somewhere in between.

Also check the acid level in the battery and look whether one or more cells are "boiling" while charging.

*However! If you are not really sure what to do here then you might want to be helped by somebody who is!*

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Freewheeler

Another suggestion

Assuming you have another separate battery charger at home and also assuming you can get at your leisure batteries, the easiest way of checking if you electrics are ok or not is to: disconnect mains lead to van, connect separate charger to batteries do not switch on power, turn on the light, turn on power to charger, the light then normally gets brighter.

Don’t forget to turn off power before disconnecting the charger.

Ken S.


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## freewheeler (Nov 6, 2005)

Fitted my new bulbs today - wow, what a difference. Brilliant, I can see now!! Many thanks to all that replied. I am now warming up to the subject.... closer examination of my electrics makes me believe that there is no charger from mains hook-up to leisure battery (no diff in light brightness if I connect a mains charger to battery), and no charger from vehicle system to leisure battery (no diff in light brightness when I turn engine on). I can believe the first one but am surprised by the second one - how I can tell if there is a charger connection from vehicle to leisure battery and if it is functioning? (And I also thought that if my battery is NOT being charged, so NOT full strength therefore does not have the power to START the flourescent lights, so thats why they are dim and my new ones ARE being able to start 'cos they are new. Thoughts?) Thanks.


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## Brambles (May 12, 2005)

Freewheeler,
My fluorscent lights do not vary with voltage either, but the halogens and others do. The only real way to test if you are charging is to use a voltmeter (digital).
and watch for an increase in volts when you connect up mains or start engine.
I would not worry about it too much because you obviously to not have problems with leisure battery going flat or you would have said so.

After a period of charge , and while on charge, your battery reading should be about 13.6 to 14.2 volts and drop a bit when you take it off charge. 
Jon


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