# Legal situation for riding 125cc scooters in Europe



## spannerhead

Can yiou ride a 125cc on 'L' plates (CBT trained) or do you need a full license in Europe?


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## Mrplodd

Mmm

Thats a very good question, 

My initial view would be that driving licence regs are harmonised throughout Europe (thats why we are on photocard licences now) so you should be OK. Would it not be a lot easier to just take your M/Cycle test before you go ???


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## spannerhead

I've got a full license, but my wife doesn't and she fancies a go.

And if you think it's easy getting a full bike license then you clearly haven't taken the test recently!! 

I'll give the AA a ring, they should know.....

Well, just called them, they don't have a clue, nor does the DVLA ..... any more thoughts?


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## thieawin

Only full, not provisional, licences are recognised under the directive


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## spannerhead

Just spoken to Bennets, bike insurers, and they reckon you can ride a 125 in Europe on L plates with a CBT and a full car license, and they could insure it.


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## thieawin

They are wrong

http://www.aboutdrivingabroad.co.uk/your-driving-licence-valid-abroad.html

"You're not allowed to drive abroad on a provisional licence"

Think it through

You can swap youir EU licence for an EU licenv ce in another EU statre but you cannot swap your provisional, you must take out a local one


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## marnaz

If it helps I live in Spain and you can ride up to 125 with a car licence.

Used to be under 50 cc you need not have insurance or licence but not allowed on main roads. even our local plod rides on with no plates...

I would advise the 50cc thing as all areas are differant rules according to your province your in.

But much is now starting to conform with the EU but in Andalucia and I think all of Spain your be ok up to 125cc youll need greencard insurance.
and a helmet
Marnaz


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## spannerhead

thieawin said:


> They are wrong
> 
> http://www.aboutdrivingabroad.co.uk/your-driving-licence-valid-abroad.html
> 
> "You're not allowed to drive abroad on a provisional licence"
> 
> Think it through
> 
> You can swap youir EU licence for an EU licenv ce in another EU statre but you cannot swap your provisional, you must take out a local one


Yeah - but she's not got a provisional license, she's got a full UK driving license, with an English CBT to allow her to drive a 125cc bike.


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## marnaz

Well...As I said you can ride up to 125cc on a car licence, forgetting the bike licence.
With A bike licence She is allowed the same as in the UK
She can ride 125cc on either licence entitlement
Marnaz


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## thieawin

No

you cannot drive on the provisional entitlements abroad

The UK licence is full for categories passed and provisional for catergories not passed

it is only the full categories which are recognised in EU

here is the UK government web site link showing it the other way around ie Europeans coming to UK

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022556

"If you hold a valid community licence and are visiting GB, you can drive any vehicle if THE FULL entitlement for that vehicle is shown on the licence"

FULL not PROVISIONAL

If you drive abrouad a vehicle for which your UK licence is only provisional you risk prosecution and disqualification in that country for driving without a licence


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## spannerhead

Well, I've just spoken to another bike insurer who has specifically insured a number of people for riding 125's on a provisional license in Europe without any problem and would happily do the same for me, good enough for me....


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## teemyob

*Bikes*

All well and good, but I would only ride on any form of Motorcycle on my own, no pillion unless I had taken the full test.

Trev


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## marnaz

Same as uk then ???


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## spannerhead

That's fine - as I have a full bike license, so I can drive both of us around, and if she wants to take it out on her own then she can .....


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## olley

thieawin said:


> No
> 
> you cannot drive on the provisional entitlements abroad


 ](*,) ](*,) :lol:

Olley


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## spannerhead

Right, we all need to bow our heads in shame, thieawin was right all along, the insurance companies clearly don't know what they're taking about.

Had this from English bikers living in France, and 4 bikers living in the UK who ride in France.

Bugger, that's a shame .....

So thanks for your input thieawin, it's much appreciated, but as I'm sure you can understand this sort of thing can generate lots of opinions, so it was worth following through on different forums.


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## thieawin

when I post on a legal topic I have done my research and have the benefit of 30 years as a Manx Advocate, English Solicitor and Solicitor in North and Republic of Ireland

I am always concerned when legal information, which is wrong, is posted. if someone holds themselves out and is relied upon they or the site could become liable

It pays not to be dogmatic but if I get it wrong at least I have insurance!

John

PS why take legal advice from an Insurer and expect it to be right

PPS this is one of the few areas where the law really is black and white

PPPS I love te debate anyway


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## ned

*motorcycles and L plates*

Hi

Just got back from italy   We took our Honda C90 and were jolly glad we did :lol: I contacted Bennets before we went and they said that their insurance covers me in Europe ( me with only a CBT ) Now I spoke to a nice policeman who was standing contemplating a breakdown in a cross roads set of traffic lights. He suggested we talk in a cafe over a cappuciono :roll: He left the chaos to sort itself out :wink: He said that you can ride up to 125cc, with passengers ( note the plural ) on a car license. Helmets are not neccesarily required by the passengers and it is up to you if you do the chin straps up!! His wife turned up with two children on their Honda SH125i. The tenyear old standing on the footplate holding the handlebars (no helmet). His wife weaving between the traffic and the 6 year old sitting on the back!!!!!! This was in Sorrento. She said she was of to collect Mama and I had visions of her being put on the carrying rack at the back! How the other half live

Cheers Ned


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## eddied

Ciao ned, in Sorrento the Polizia Locale are well known to be cretins. They completely misinformed you (as I'm sure you actually realise) ALL passengers on a moped must have a crash helmet, and chin straps must be done up. The fact that 90 percent of local motorcycling population ignore this doesn't make it legal to do so, That's Italy.
saluti, eddied


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## CliveMott

Get your Mrs to do that same as my pensioner Mrs. Take the test and get a full license. Its an interesting procedure and its in place for a reason - to keep you alive! Plus its FUN.


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## Codfinger

I was reading a feature in this months MMM where the Lady author Rachel Stothert states that you cannot have a pillion on a 50cc this is incorect you can if you passed your car test before the 1/2/2001, I have it in black and white in the M/H given to me by traffic police just in case I have to argue this point with a misinformed plod. (look it up if you dont believe me)


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## olley

Well done her clive  what's she getting now? a fireblade?

Olley


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## RichardnGill

I was reading a feature in this months MMM where the Lady author Rachel Stothert states that you cannot have a pillion on a 50cc this is incorect you can if you passed your car test before the 1/2/2001, I have it in black and white in the M/H given to me by traffic police just in case I have to argue this point with a misinformed plod. (look it up if you dont believe me)


> A learner can also carry a passenger as long as the passenger has passed there test.
> 
> I never believe everything I read in magazines.
> 
> Richard...


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## RichardnGill

I was reading a feature in this months MMM where the Lady author Rachel Stothert states that you cannot have a pillion on a 50cc this is incorect you can if you passed your car test before the 1/2/2001, I have it in black and white in the M/H given to me by traffic police just in case I have to argue this point with a misinformed plod. (look it up if you dont believe me)


> A learner can also carry a passenger as long as the passenger has passed there test.
> 
> I never believe everything I read in magazines.
> 
> Richard...


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## Codfinger

:lol: :lol: do you think anyone has told her?


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## 91502

RichardnGill said:


> A learner can also carry a passenger as long as the passenger has passed there test.
> Richard...


Richard
I am not sure this is right but please correct me if anyone knows different.
This was the case in the UK, a learner rider and a pillion with full licence but this is not allowed anymore since the change in bike licences. 
I have no knowledge outside the UK except provisional licences are not valid but if local law allows you to ride a 125cc on a full car licence as many countries do it is then ok.
James


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## steco1958

This text

Provisional Moped Licence

You must be at least 16 years old to apply for a provisional moped licence. Your provisional moped licence expires on your 70th birthday.

Your provisional moped licence allows you to ride a moped, which is any motorcycle with:

An engine capacity of no more than 50cc (33 bhp)
A maximum speed of 31mph (50kph)
A maximum weight of 250kg
Your provisional moped licenece has the following restrictions:

You must ride with L plates (D plates in Wales) at all times
You may not carry a pillion passenger
Note that motorcycles classed as mopeds are not allowed on motorways, no matter what licence you hold.

Is taken from HERE


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## RichardnGill

James 

You might be right, It was allowed before they messed about with the Motorbike licenses. 

Does anyone know if you can still do this?


Richard...


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## steco1958

As above you are not allowed to carry a pillion unless you have passed your test !!!


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## LazyRover

A full (car) driver's licence, issued before 1/2/2001, automatically gives one a full MOPED licence. No extra test required.

As such, one may carry pillion passengers.


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## Glandwr

I can hire a motorbike or scooter under 125cc with a provisional OR full car licence from 
this site (the French Riviera one, scroll down). Note website in English, aimed at the English market?

Now are they wrong?

Dick


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## RedSonja

If you are are French and over 21 you can ride up to a 125cc with a full car licence.

I cannot see why the same should not apply to members of other EU Countries.

You must also ride with the headlights on as well.

Sonja


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