# A Kitchen Sink tale



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Since starting to use our MH for trips we have been finding using the sink area a little strange. The cutting board, that doubles as a sink cover, has a cutout that aligns to a raised part of the sink edge and was only fitting properly when it was 180 degrees away from the tap. This perplexed us and did not seem right. 

Checking the brochure and the web pictures it seems that the sink is indeed mounted the wrong way around.

This is being reported to the dealer along with 2 other significant problems already posted in threads by other owners.
Aide 3010 > 3020 Heater
PSU Charger circuit relay chattering. (Solar Panel controller related)

I will keep you posted on outcome.


----------



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Curious, at least from your picture the sink is circular so hopefully not a difficult fix.

Davy


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Saw Dealer's Workshop manager on Friday morning and cheerily advised that this and other items being rectified when parts are in hand and date for workshop visit is agreed.


----------



## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

Been to see our new van today Guess what,

they still havn't learnt how to fit them the right way around yet,
Misty


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Has it not been configured that way so that you can swing the tap out of the way whilst using the insert over the sink for chopping etc yet it will still discharge into the sink via the cut out should you turn it on by mistake?

I seem to recall something similar on a MH I owned some years ago and it worked a treat !!!!!

Just askin like!!

Andy


----------



## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

Yep your right Andy,
Swing the tap back so if it drips, turns on, it will run in the sink through the hole,
look at the photos, first one is how it should be, note the raised bit is by the tap,
the second one, its opposite the tap, where the hole would be when the drainer,chopping board is fitted, so if the tap was knocked on
it would splash on the drainer, chopping board,
Bailey Know but seem to have forgot to tell the guys fitting them,
Misty


----------



## suedew (May 10, 2005)

Mrplodd said:


> Has it not been configured that way so that you can swing the tap out of the way whilst using the insert over the sink for chopping etc yet it will still discharge into the sink via the cut out should you turn it on by mistake?
> 
> I seem to recall something similar on a MH I owned some years ago and it worked a treat !!!!!
> 
> ...


Our escape was like that
Sue


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

*This is how it should be.*



Mrplodd said:


> Has it not been configured that way so that you can swing the tap out of the way whilst using the insert over the sink for chopping etc yet it will still discharge into the sink via the cut out should you turn it on by mistake?
> 
> I seem to recall something similar on a MH I owned some years ago and it worked a treat !!!!!
> 
> ...


A better view. (Photo copied from the Bailey website brochure.)


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

This issue continues after being to the dealers. :frown2:

It seems that from the dealers view point the sink fitting is correct and per Bailey latest deliveries from the factory. They claim to have tried resetting sinks and had to go back to the "opposite" siting arrangement. Apparently when the sink is turned around to be as the brochure picture the locking catch for the round door below the sink will hit the side wall of the sink and not close properly. 
See first 2 pictures of how the catch aligns to the tap cut out but from underneath it broaches the perimeter of the sink.

If early models had sinks fitted as per brochure what has changed? The catch appears to be identical on all cupboard doors in the kitchen area in my unit. 

Have Bailey ( or subcontracted door makers?) started to use a larger catch, then the sink fitters found the fitting problem and took the easy way out and just turned it around to make it fit? Bailey QC turn a blind eye to it to get the units out to the dealers? 

Are there any owners of early 2015 740/745 units out there with correct sink orientation that can take a timed (and flash) photo as above to show how close it is when door is closed and try to measure the catch's depth for comparison?

My unit is stored now and I'm away on grandchild sitting duties for a few days but when back will look more closely at the catch dimensions and see if the sink can be reset and/or the catch/door modified without major difficulty.

If anyone is in the vicinity of Cardiff I would be happy to meet up somewhere to do a cross check of my unit Vs an early "correct" fitting one. PM me if anyone fancies a meet for a chat and a coffee and cake on me.

I am going to NEC on 24th Feb so a visit to the Bailey stand to make a complaint is now on the top of my list. If anyone else with this issue is going please raise it as an official complaint at Bailey stand. I will feedback Bailey response from the NEC visit.

If we raise enough concern about customer satisfaction and selling the item that is not in compliance to the brochure it might get addressed. (or not :crying

Cheers
Paul


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

And how much did you pay to be fobbed off with a trashy excuse like that!?


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Spacerunner said:


> And how much did you pay to be fobbed off with a trashy excuse like that!?


Warranty repair visit so no cost. Not that daft!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Paul, I can see this is an annoyance to you, I can also see the sense in the dealers comment.

But looking at the picture you post it look like there might be some leeway to rotate the sink before the bowl come up against the catch, also could a strong magnetic catch be utilised onto a bracket which would be lower then the bowl, leaving the knob in place for aesthetics, but the catch removed to stop it binding.

Just thinking out loud, I know it's a nice new van etc, but we all do little fettles to get them how we want them.


----------



## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> But looking at the picture you post it look like there might be some leeway to rotate the sink before the bowl come up against the catch,


I think the bowl needs tuning through 180˚ Kev
I bet they have started fitting a new (bigger) catch and done the sink bodge. Typical!


----------



## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

Having looked at your original two pictures again Paul it looks like there's quite a bit more worktop between the sink and the worktop edge. Maybe they've decided to fit a smaller cupboard and resultant smaller worktop?


----------



## Landyman (Apr 3, 2010)

chilly said:


> Having looked at your original two pictures again Paul it looks like there's quite a bit more worktop between the sink and the worktop edge. Maybe they've decided to fit a smaller cupboard and resultant smaller worktop?


Agreed, definitely less worktop space round the sink on your photo compared with the Bailey one.

Typical British bodge job to keep costs down. :frown2:


----------



## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm not suggesting that Bailey's fix to the problem of the catch is acceptable but looking at the photos I suspect that they are stuck with the problem and the only fix would be a resiting of the sink or replacement of the catch (and probably all the catches in the van) to a smaller one.

Hopefully they will come up with a solution but I suspect it's something you may be stuck with.

If that is the case, then I'm a bit like Kev and would "fettle" things to suit myself. My thought would be to modify the drainer to allow the hole to line up with the tap. I've attached a very badly modified picture to show what I mean. 

As I say, not really acceptable but sometimes it's less grief to sort things yourself.


----------



## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

I've just been on google images and would say that (other than Bailey's brochure shots) about 95% of actual vans, in dealers, have the sink fitted the wrong way round.
Here's an exception which proves that it can be done right...


----------



## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

Hey troggy,
A bit aside, how did you get on with the holes? The one under the cupboard looks like the pipes could rub through,
Still think the bathroom one should hane a shroud around it, which they forgot on the drawing board or decided to penny pinch,
Misty


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Would getting a new cover solve the problem. Sorry hard to see what's actually going on from pictures with this one.

They definitely changed them though.









3:14 in to see sink.













1:50 in to see sink


----------



## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi Kev,
If you look at post 8 and see the shape of the chopping board,the drainer is the same shape, they will only sit in with the moon shape hole at the front,
But the idea is if the tap is knocked on accidently or any dribbles on the move, (sounds a bit like one of Pussers storys) the water goes in the sink, but this way just splashes all over,
As you know its not rocket sience to get it right,
Misty


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

mistycat said:


> Hi Kev,
> If you look at post 8 and see the shape of the chopping board,the drainer is the same shape, they will only sit in with the moon shape hole at the front,
> But the idea is if the tap is knocked on accidently or any dribbles on the move, (sounds a bit like one of Pussers storys) the water goes in the sink, but this way just splashes all over,
> As you know its not rocket sience to get it right,
> Misty


But the tap is a swivel anyway (I think) so it would only work if it was in the right position anyway, btw, I put my lever at the back to avoid accidental turn ons (behave) and it worked.


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

I've had some time to study the problem of the washing bowl orientation and cupboard catch. It's not easy to determine what is interfering with the fit so I just went ahead and rotated the bowl. 
Firstly loosen the central drain screw a couple of turns. (I removed it but loosening is sufficient. )
Remove the black plastic covers from the 3 bowl fixing screws and loosen the screws about five turns. 
Rotate the bowl to desired position, ease it over towards the tap and try closing the cupboard door. Look carefully at the bowl to see if the edge nearest the door catch lifts when the door is fully closed. If not you can tighten the fixings and central drain screw. Run some water to test the drain seal and job done. 

In my case, and I suspect a lot of the other ill-fitting bowls, the edge lifts a couple of millimetres so the amount of interference was very small but enough to stop the door closing when the bowl is fixed down. I tried but failed to see which point of the catch was interfering whilst closing the door so I tightened the bowl fixings and drain screw in the desired position. 
I turned my attention to the catch which I removed and dismantled to assess if it could be lowered but the front escutcheon plate for the catch has a circular moulding behind and it seems to be just pressed into a round hole in the door. No way to easily lower its mounting so I examined the catch to see which parts of the plastic moulding could tolerate being trimmed back, but which area to trim? 

I reassembled and refitted the catch and used a small bottle of white enamel touch up paint and dabbed it on the top edge of the catch and closed the door to make a touch mark on the curve of the ledge in the bowl and to showed just which part of the catch was touching the bowl. I took a photo (below) of both touch points and wiped off the still wet paint. 
I assessed that a bit of filing / shaving of the top corner would allow a fit. I took off a little of the plastic, reapplied the paint tried the "close test" again. It needed a little more with the cutting blade and that should do it. 
Well, you need to be careful as you'll see from the photo, I sliced a little too much and penetrated the inside of the catch but it did not interfere or affect the catch mechanism. I might get hold of a replacement catch and try not to be so brutal in trimming the plastic.
I ensured all bowl and drain fixings were tight and replaced the covers. ( If you have one of those craft mini hand tools and a suitable rotating bit you could control the trimming much better. )
Out of curiosity I closed the door, set the catch on and then gently levered the door away from the magnetic catch to find it swung open about 15 mm. The catch receiving plate "received" the end of my hammer and due to the acute angle way the catch tongue approaches the plate it only took 3-4 mm "adjustment" to close the door gap to an acceptable distance. 

I believe by Bailey lowering the catch mounting hole a few mm and maybe a longer catch plate the bowl could have been installed in its correct position. 

During the above work I found that some bodger had "turned" the corners of one of the sink fixing screws. I got it out with a small flat blade driver and cut a slot for the refitting. 
Also one of the screw mounting holes of the magnetic catch on the cupboard door was split through over tightening the screw. I saw this same issue on Bailey MHs at Birmingham NEC in Feb. The last photo shows such an example. I think the Incredible Hulk was working in Baileys assembly line. 
Whilst at the show I wandered into number of similar 740 and 745s and found the bowl at various positions. (Even in one or two caravans the cutout was not next to the tap even when there should have been nothing to stop it. So its not just a Motorhome thing.)

Hopefully that helps others to resolve their own ill-fitting bowls.

Whilst having the tools strewn around and in the mood for some fettling I thought about the problem of the cutting board tending to slide about on the 3 rubber covers. I managed to mark them on the underside and drill a shallow recess and now it doesn't slide anymore. She loves me for that one.

More fettling to come in the future now I'm getting into it.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Troggy, the butchered  catch is a common one so easy to get another, but I wonder if you had a Dremel or cheapo copy (maplins) if you made a pencil line around the catch, you could use said Dremel as a mini router and sink the catch into the door a fraction, negating the need for modifying it, or just leave it as is if it works.


----------



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Hi Kev
Interesting idea. Yes I ran through a few ideas in my head for tools to take off material when I decided to take that approach but I had none of them in my kit at the time apart from the "stanley" knife. "I'll risk it" I thought and went a teensy weensy bit too far. (brown insulating tape'll fix that!) 
If I have to get a Dremel tool for another job I'll revisit this to take another crack at it with a new catch body.

Another annoying twist in the poor installation aspect was that the catch was installed a few degrees off vertical making that corner higher than it should have been. see photo.
If it had been straight it may have just about fitted under the sink edge without needing to chop it. I think that's where Bailey are going wrong. Slap dash installation (as in so many other things) the door catch installation screwed up (sorry about the pun) leading to sink not fitting properly and then having to be fitted in the wrong way around.

Heyho. Keeps me from under her feet.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Proper men need a project


----------

