# >3.5 tonne speed limits



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

80 kms seems to be quite common in certain parts of France now. Eg huge sections of the motorway south of Bordeaux. Do people observe these in normal sized >3.5t campers?

Dick


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The speed limits for those that display the signs on the back - as French registered are required as part of the Controle Technique (even if you take it off immediately afterwards) ar

30 kph where the limit is 30 kph

50 where it is 50

70 where it is 70

80 where it is 90 kph (most "open roads")

100 where it is 110 kph (many dual carriageways and non-toll autoroutes,

110 kph where it is 130 kph (toll roads where indicated)

The speed limits are also lowered from 110 on the 130 kph sections to 100 kph

and 100 where it would be 110 kph if the road was dry i.e. it is NT raining.

Sadly the rain reduction seems difficult to judge..... 

Around Bordeaux at present instead of 90 it has been reduced to 70kph due to "pollution"

and yes, I do obey them as there are very many cameras and cars around, some of which are much more sophisticated than those in the UK..... and even 1kph over the limit is enough, they do not have the 10% +2 tolerance that exists in the UK.

I hope that helps, there is always discussion about what happens if you get flashed, at present probably very little, unless there happens to be a Gendarme just along the road to stop you and fine you on the spot..... That was scheduled to all change this year under (the dreaded) EU rules, whether it will remains to be seen. BUT the French are likely to mobilise more Gendarmes just for that eventuality as it is a great source of income...... Our local 7 motorcycle Gendarme have just been redeployed for motorway patrol.... i.e. catching and stopping those caught on a camera.....

I believe that the temporary 80kph speed limit south of Bordeaux is that it is nominally unfinished at present so the lower speed limit applies for when there are, or may be roadworks. They often mark those areas where the limits are extant by yellow painted lines rather than white at the edge and for the dotted lines between lanes. How long that work will last is still an unknown.....

Dave


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

Not that I want to break the law or to encourage others to do so, it would seem that there is a gap in its effectiveness for non-French registered MHs - as they are not required to carry the speed stickers, and for a MH that could be under or over 3.5t, there probably is no way for the French police to establish the weight - other than stopping vehicles.

For safety the 3.5t differentiation has spurious justification because, for example our MH was readily upplated to 3850kg because that is how the CofC was issued when it came out of the factory, so the brakes etc. are deemed safe at that weight, just as at the original downplated weight when first registerd of 3500kg. Not much use as an argument against a French Gendarme I know, but I think the lawmakers still need to consider it, but doubt if they will.

Geoff


----------



## skid (Nov 21, 2005)

I was on the understanding that they allow 5 klm over without a problem ,and I also hear that the police will next year have access to uk registrations electronically so instant police car knowledge of what you have like uk police.


----------



## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I was in that area 3 months ago and ignored the 80kmh limit for >3.5 tonne (I'm 5.2 tonnes) except when going past speed cameras. I doubt that they could have worked out what weight I was but I didn't think it worth taking the chance.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

skid said:


> I was on the understanding that they allow 5 klm over without a problem ,and I also hear that the police will next year have access to uk registrations electronically so instant police car knowledge of what you have like uk police.


The last I heard was that the governments had not agreed on the way that access should be paid for.

Even if that problem were overcome, the French, or any other police force, might be disappointed in the information they gleen. For example my V5C at para F1 'Max. permissible mass' (Now I think re-termed Max permissible laden weight) is .....Blank.

I do have a figure for weight in para [Y] 'Revenue weight', but this para does not appear on other V5C equivalent, so I wonder if it would be included in the computer system, since an enquiry for that entry on a Polish vehicle would get a nil return.

I suspect that the French, or any other, country might get fed up paying for inaccurate information from DVLA, just like UK citizens.

Add to that the cost of trying to enforce payment through a foreign jusisdiction and it might become financially non-viable.

Of course, the French authorities could try to prosecute in a French court, and then serve the judgement on the driver next time she/he entered France - if they could prove he was the driver.

Can you imagine the frustration of M. Flic if all this paper keeps circulating through his IN tray

Such a tangle of legal worms in my opinion that it will not happen.

Anyway drive slowly and keep safe.:laugh:

Geoff


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> not that I want to break the law or to encourage others to do so, it would seem that there is a gap in its effectiveness for non-French registered MHs - as they are not required to carry the speed stickers, and for a MH that could be under or over 3.5t, there probably is no way for the French police to establish the weight - other than stopping vehicles.
> 
> For safety the 3.5t differentiation has spurious justification because, for example our MH was readily upplated to 3850kg because that is how the CofC was issued when it came out of the factory, so the brakes etc. are deemed safe at that weight, just as at the original downplated weight when first registerd of 3500kg. Not much use as an argument against a French Gendarme I know, but I think the lawmakers still need to consider it, but doubt if they will.
> 
> Geoff


I happen to know that our vehicle looks identical until the Carte Grise is examined where it reveals 3850, but if on UK plates that information would not be readily available and I doubt that M Le Flic would have the time or the resources to even attempt to follow it through. BUT that could mean that they are more likely to stop on sight and check your papers there and then - as they do frequently if you fail to e.g. stop for the requisite time at a STOP sign, although no-one KNOWS what the time is supposed to be.....

I do not think it will be a problem UNLESS you are stopped at the time.

As regards access to DVLA it is SUPPOSED to be harmonised THIS year, but I somehow doubt this will appear anywhere on a priority list for Davis, Fox or anyone else - it will undoubtedly be kicked into the long grass or become a "negotiating point" for the next few years. I cannot see any UK court upholding an allegation for possibly exceeding a speed limit in France when the quality or reliability of the equipment concerned has not been approved by UK authorities and who knows if indeed the data was even obtained as alleged? No UK court would go along with that, or vice versa I suspect.

My reason for my post was to explain why the speed limits MAY be lower than normal - as the road is under repair (we found the same around Rennes for 3 years while they were building new access) and the same can be found North of Bordeaux where the high speed rail line is being built and the road disrupted.

Just be aware that the limits exist and CAN be enforced and there are more mobile patrols than ever around such areas, it does NOT have to be a fixed camera as they have enforcement vehicles that can monitor more than 20 other vehicles at a time in both directions and they are unmarked...... France has no compulsion to make such things visible and I have spotted radar equipped Gendarme at the edge of the road in the trees watching.....

Simple answer, keep your speed to the limit, it's better than an on the spot 90€ fine which could be MUCH more if they feel really awkward, that can make a serious dent in holiday finances.

Oh yes, and I know one driver who was done for doing 91 kph in a 90 limit in a French reg. car, the tolerance is minimal..... :surprise:

Dave


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

Good post.

Good assessment.

Geoff


----------



## skid (Nov 21, 2005)

Oh well nothing changed here then???

Dvla fo example just tried to fine me for driving a 20 ton Lorry in the low emission zone? When I have taxed this 3.5 ton mh for 7 yrs with no change? Not a 20 ton lorry...


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

DVLA or TFL ? TFL are a law unto themselves and have been criticised gain and again over their classification of vehicles being wrong and then trying to fine them.....

Dave


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> DVLA or TFL ? TFL are a law unto themselves and have been criticised gain and again over their classification of vehicles being wrong and then trying to fine them.....
> 
> Dave


Dave

Tfl did indeed have some troubles early on, mainly due to there sub-contractor operating the LEZ, but also because the contractor was getting a lot of duff information, because they were relying on DVLA computer records. They changed contractor 3-4 years ago, which I know from my personal dealings and the new one is operating differently. I have not read of the same degree of disatisfaction with the Tfl system since the change - I certainly benefitted from the change.

Geoff


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Geoff

The ONLY database that would have all the requisite information on would be DVLA, others, such as insurance companies etc pay a licence fee to access the database. So regardless of contractor the info all comes courtesy of DVLA, who, owing to the vast number of vehicle records they have, must have a few wrong 'uns lurking in the depths. Everyone hears about the errors/mistakes but just think how many things they deal with without any problems, I bet it's tens of thousands a week.

Not making excuses, just pointing out that they do get the vast majority correct.

Andy


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> Dave
> 
> Tfl did indeed have some troubles early on, mainly due to there sub-contractor operating the LEZ, but also because the contractor was getting a lot of duff information, because they were relying on DVLA computer records. They changed contractor 3-4 years ago, which I know from my personal dealings and the new one is operating differently. I have not read of the same degree of disatisfaction with the Tfl system since the change - I certainly benefitted from the change.
> 
> Geoff


Thanks for that, I did not know they had changed, we fell foul of them in the early days and have carefully avoided the LEZ ever since.

I do not KNOW what would happen if we tried now in a French registered MH, and am unlikely to ever try to find out. I have heard various comments that "you must register in advance" (or what????) and "we will pursue you through European debt collection agencies" but do not wish to investigate either option further.... (I know that I am a wimp!).

It simply means that we avoid going anywhere we used to go including my sister who lives nominally inside the LEZ limits (by about 0.5 km), I have never looked for cameras but do not wsh to get lumbered with, what to me, is a ludicrous £200 a day fine. ALL other cities with such exclusions have a nminal sum of say £10 - 15 per day, which I would not object to paying. But £200 is crazy when we might be 1/4 mile approx inside a nominal border and going nowhere...... £400 for 1/2 mile (in and out over 2 days) is excessive in anyone's language.......

Dave


----------

