# Is this normal ???



## 119354

having been looking for some while for a new motorhome (last ten months or so) I regrettably ended up purchasing a brand new Bessacarr from my dealer in the North.
Through my process of looking at and discussing several models with various owners and friends, the general feedback was avoid Swifts as they are problematic. I didn't take this too seriously, however the seed had been sewn. Autosleeper and Autotrail we my first choice vans and so when attending a national show I had every intention of purchasing one of these two choices. However, during the time of my visit I was shown around a Swift Bessacarr with a very suitable layout for my needs and and was offered an outstanding deal on the model and decided to make the purchase. This, despite my initial concerns as raised originally.
Being a fair woman I decided that everyone is entitled to their own views and vowed to make my own mind up on the manufacturer and basically gave them a clean slate. I definitely did not set out to fault find, why on earth would I ??
However, concerns were raised when within three days of collection I had an horrendous water leak, and before anyone says it, it was NOT condensation, it was a proper water leak. My dealer responded the very moment I contacted them and came out and sealed the leak within the day.
Then, during my first road trip, my water heater wouldn't work on electric. On returning the vehicle to the dealer, it was found it had never been wired in at all! Again something rectified by my dealer.

Now my dealer was not entirely blameless in this as it should have been spotted previous to the sale, but have compensated me suitably and given me what I consider a genuine and honest explanation for the oversight.

There also many other snagging issues that I neither have the heart or inclination to bore you all with as I intend to offload the vehicle after only a couple of months use. This is a situation I am not comfortable with as my consience plagues me with passing on these problems to someone else.

The real crux of my post is not just the actual faults with the van but the complete lack of service I have received form Swift's aftercare, that is when they can be bothered to answer the phone. My dealer has been fantastic through this but there are things I want to ask swift directly, but whenever I do get to speak with them the minute I mention a fault or design query the tone of voice indicates a lack of interest and concern, and the then followed by the usual mantra of 'go back to your dealer'.

Am I alone in this, or is the fact that Swift have their own section on this forum dedicated to troubleshooting indicate that A) I am not alone and B) I should have listened to the advice I received before my purchase.

DISGRUNTLED.


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## brianamelia

Hi there sorry to hear about your troubles but I think you will find swift will respond to you swiftly on here and to be fair to them when I have needed to contacted them through the forum have been great.Good luck
bri


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## GerryD

Unfortunately, this level of build quality is typical of all motorhomes and the other two brands that you have mentioned are not without their problems.
The benefit of Swift is that they are british, unlike the other two brands who are italian owned with italian attitudes.
Peter from Swift actively monitors this forum and I am sure that he will pick up on your post and do everything within his powers to rectify your problems. Of the motorhome manufacturers available within the UK Swift have recently been more proactive than all the rest put together.
Gerry


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## nukeadmin

Welcome to MHF, interesting choice of username :?



> sealed the leak within the day.


From where and what was leaking ?



> genuine and honest explanation for the oversight.


Which was ?

What dealer was it btw ?

As with all mhs your first port of call should always be your dealer regardless of what manufacturer your van is.

Swift dont have a section of the site dedicated to troubleshooting lol, same as we dont have a Hymer section etc for troubleshooting, these sections are for our members to swap hints and tips pertaining to specific manufacturers rather than be lost amongst general hints.

Seems unusual that a leak that you admit should have been picked up by the dealer is the main reason you want to "offload" the van now. This leak could be a product issue and nothing to do with the actual van i.e. the Truma boiler etc.


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## 94055

makes me wonder should user names be vetted before inclusion?

Can I change my name to

VERYHAPPYWITHSWIFTCHANGEDFROMAHYMER

or

DOYOUBELIEVEALLPOSTSONHEREAREGENUINE

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

OK rant over


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## Otto-de-froste

*Wellhappywithswift*

A Swift bessacarr?
Which model is it?
Ours is Bessacarr E460, pretty much an entry level but quality wise eclipses the Trigano we had previously, and is far superior in fit and finish than the a Burstner Marano we nearly bought the previous year

There are a few teething issues, but none that worry me enough to consider disposing of it after 6 months, and Swift have been expectational in their care and interest

How many other manufacturers would try so hard, especially on entry level vehicles

Forgive me if I'm out of turn, but I find it hard to believe that Swift Group would not take interest in any problems especially in light of the current economic climate

Forgive me mate Eddy who thinks that there is more than a little Enid Blyton to this tale
You see - he wouldn't give credence to a complaint about three wheelers from someone who persisted in calling them Robin Reliants


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## 1happy

Hi "unhappywithswift"
The question "Is this normal ???" is an interesting one as you say


> "having been looking for some while for a new motorhome (last ten months or so) "


And


> Through my process of looking at and discussing several models with various owners and friends, the general feedback was avoid Swifts as they are problematic.


you must surely have seen members with allsorts of "problems" on allsorts of makes 
me thinks that the later statement 


> There also many other snagging issues that I neither have the heart or inclination to bore you all with


Perhaps has added 'insult to your injury' 
But surely the two instances you mention (& now are rectified!) are not enough to loose a shed load of money 8O

Also the fact that Swift have a mind to openly contribute to this forum should give you some hope :idea:

Finally I do hope you join/subscribe to this forum & perhaps when your "problem" is sorted you could change your name to something else like "SwiftandMHFhelpedme"


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## duxdeluxe

For a very first post on MHF you are particularly well informed about Swift's presence on this forum. I congratulate you on your research......

Your choice of user name is quite frankly not at all helpful.


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## Glengyle

I'm glad I bought Swift. Customer service second to none.


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## 119354

font=Arial] [/font] 
To those of you critising my use of user name, I take on board your comments and I apologise as it does seem rather juvenile of me to have done that. In all honesty I was very frustrated with my situation and let that get the better of me. I will change it when I work out how to do so!

I am very familiar with this forum, but up till now only as a regular reader, hence my knowledge of the Swift aspect in this forum section, but did feel driven to vent my spleen publicly, which is very unlike me, it's just sheer frustration.

I also take on board the general concensous that I would be a little hasty to part with the van (E425 on 130 multijet) but I have felt quite let down by the attitude I have received from Swift and I have urge to purge myself of the whole issue because of it.

I read with pleasure, and I genuinely mean that, that others have had good service form Swift because I would not wish others to be subject to the apathy afforded in my direction.

As Swift have been headlined as a company that deals directly via this forum in terms of addressing issues voiced, I sincerely hope they can offer me solice in my dissappointment, so I await any response with anticipation.

FRUSTRATED.


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## AberdeenAngus

First rule of buying a M'home.

Pick a good, local, dealer because you will be using them regularly.

You shouldn't need to contact the manufacturer directly.

If there was a problem with your car, would you phone Honda direct ?

We need to keep pressure on the dealers. Let them in turn, put pressure on the manufacturers.

Your contract is with the dealer. Make them earn the enormous profits they make.........only joking folks


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## EJB

If it was normal the other 99+% of MH owners would also be posting here. :wink:


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## bigbazza

If this is a genuine post which I have no reason to think otherwise, why are the replies so far sort of doubting the contents.
Surely if you get into such a state because of the way you are treated (unless there is a response from Swift which differs) then you have the right to comment on here. I think the choice of username is slightly biased but give a person a chance.


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## Telbell

> but I think you will find swift will respond to you swiftly on here and to be fair to them when I have needed to contacted them through the forum have been great.Good luck


The Poster sounds a reasonable lady to me - now I know there's a lot of support for Swift Owners on here-and I have praised the Company for coming on here and for Peter's honesty-

but why on earth should owners only get good service if they are MHF Members- that's certainly the implication of the above quote.

Shouldn't good service be a prerequisite whether or not you belong to a Forum?



> For a very first post on MHF you are particularly well informed about Swift's presence on this forum.


That comment puzzles me.-I'm particulalrly well informed about a number of other Forums but i never Post o them- I just browse a lot!


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## Kelcat

It seems such a shame that you'd give up your motorhome fo what seem to be a couple of problems that are now fixed.
It would seem that you've recieved exceptional service from your dealer (the lack of which seems to account for a lot of the complaints on here). Whether it's right or wrong you don't actually have a recourse to Swift - the help they give on here is above & beyond. The simple rule of thumb is "follow the money" - you have a contract with the person you paid.

I hope you can move on from this & enjoy your van.


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## Telbell

Feel moved to add:
All these Posts about "it's down to rhe dealer", go back to them, it's not down to the manufacturer....etc" not just on this thread but many others

Yes- I agree....but how many Swift owners have taken advantage of Swift being on here to approach them direct....and how many times have Swift said such as "PM me or Email me & I'll try and sort it" or I'll get my staff to contacvt you" (all paraphrased of course)

So who can blame Posters for this approach when they see it work for others?


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## bognormike

unhappywithswift said:


> font=Arial] [/font]
> To those of you critising my use of user name, I take on board your comments and I apologise as it does seem rather juvenile of me to have done that. In all honesty I was very frustrated with my situation and let that get the better of me. I will change it when I work out how to do so!


If you want to change your username, it can only be done by admin - please contact nukeadmin by e-mail with your suggested alternative & he will sort it for you. [email protected]

Mike (mods team)


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## Otto-de-froste

*Stilhappy*

I have to agree with some of the comments made here; and think I should apologise for my earlier response
It was meant light heartedly, but someone with issues regarding what is a large investment merits a little more sympathy

If your dealer has solved the problems then it would seem unfortunate that you feel you can no longer enjoy your van

It is very frustrating when things go wrong, and I too have been in a situation where I just wanted to get rid and do B&B
The economic climate isn't too good for selling, and nobody knows what the next year or two will bring
It may be worth hanging on as it is still a cost effective way to enjoy weekends away and fulfilling holidays

I would speculate that you will have very few further problems, and there are so many kindly folk on this site (even me sometimes) that would be only too happy to assist, advise and support

Hope you feel more positive soon

O


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## brianamelia

but why on earth should owners only get good service if they are MHF Members- that's certainly the implication of the above quote.

Shouldn't good service be a prerequisite whether or not you belong to a Forum?

Hi tellbell
I was merely being positive and encouraging towards the post as i have received good service from swift through the forum to suggest its because we are members of the forum never entered my mind 
bri


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

The reason why MHF members get a 'swift' service from Swift is that *unlike every other converter* their owner Peter Smith cares about the reputation of his Company (like me as well) and takes the bother to monitor MHF along with Kath and other members of Swift.

By owners posting on here he can see where problems occur and take apropriate action.

As in all large companies, when the engine driver finds out, things happen, when only the oily rag is involved, it gets shoved under the carpet!

Peter


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## Telbell

> Hi tellbell
> I was merely being positive and encouraging towards the post as i have received good service from swift through the forum to suggest its because we are members of the forum never entered my mind


It wasn't intended as a criticism of you bri-I was tempted to make such a comment anyway but your quote "opened the door" for me- it may well not have entered your mind but it has mine....and it's reasonable to assume that it has occurred to others also hence the number of direct approaches to Swift over time :wink:

Thus I think it's unfair for some to imply criticism of those who do so, rather than go direct to dealers.

I fear Swift have made a "Rod for their own Backs" in this regard.

Cheers


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## Telbell

> The reason why MHF members get a 'swift' service from Swift is that unlike every other converter their owner Peter Smith cares


"Unlike EVERY other converter?" Sweeping statement there Peter ?:wink:

Your experience extends beyond anyone's wildest dreams :lol:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Telbell said:


> "Unlike EVERY other converter?" Sweeping statement there Peter ?:wink:
> Your experience extends beyond anyone's wildest dreams :lol:


Proof of the pudding is in the READING tel. no other converter bothers or may I say dares to put his head over the parapet.

There may well be 'secret' readers on MHF but they are not obvious.

End of story.

Peter


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

hiccup somewhere!


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## Telbell

> There may well be 'secret' readers on MHF but they are not obvious.


Correct-that's why they're secret :lol:


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## 94055

Why should us happy Swift owners not comment on a negative posting related to Swift? We have as much right to praise Swift as someone has to critisize them, do we not?

I am always sceptical on any comments that are made by a non subscriber. The member says they have been around a long time, why have they not subscribed?

The member said they were warned about Swift and yet still bought one, Mmmm.

Maybe a genuine member, maybe not.

Who is the brilliant Dealer? Is there one?


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## Telbell

"We have as much right to praise Swift as someone has to critisize them, do we not?"


Of course. but as a non-Swift Owner, and trying to see this from BOTH sides, there does seem an awful lot of "ultra defensiveness" when someone has the temerity to make negative comments about the company.

Remember a "complainant" is only making a comment about things as they have experienced it, and so has the right to criticise.

As for your suspicion about non-subscribers: again, are we (you?) suggesting a Poster should not comment negatively on things "as they see it" without posting the magical 10 posts and paying the subs?

We keep saying we should "wselcome" new Posters and certainly why not encourage them to subscribe--but to hit them with a virtual "how dare you criticise our beloved Swift who've helped us all on the Forum....and you don't even subscribe...."

Yes- another "hmmm" :wink:


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## geraldandannie

Hi Tel

Steve's referring to a number of members in the past who join, make unattributable negative comments, not give full information, and then disappear again.

I think the feeling is that if you've at least paid a tenner, you have a little more credibility, especially if you give full details about your experiences.

Gerald


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## Telbell

Yes Gerald I think he is-(and I understand that sentiment)but said in the context of this thread I think her's also alluding to to the OP :wink:


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## Zebedee

Hi Tel



Tel said:


> We keep saying we should "wselcome" new Posters and certainly why not encourage them to subscribe--but to hit them with a virtual "how dare you criticise our beloved Swift who've helped us all on the Forum....and you don't even subscribe...."


In fairness to Steve, I don't think he was saying quite that - not how I read it anyway. :?

I'm sure you have noticed that some non-subscribing members who come on with a long diatribe of complaints in their first post, use up their remaining four free ones with further negative comments and are never seen again.

I don't think that is the case here, but it has happened, and that's how I read Steve's comments.

The unfortunate username does nothing to enhance the OP's credibility either, I fear. :? :roll:

Dave 

(Edit. Gerald obviously types faster than me.  :roll: Just saw his post as I submitted this one.

Damn. Damn!! 8O )


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## SwiftGroup

unhappywithswift said:


> font=Arial] [/font]
> 
> As Swift have been headlined as a company that deals directly via this forum in terms of addressing issues voiced, I sincerely hope they can offer me solice in my dissappointment, so I await any response with anticipation.
> 
> FRUSTRATED.


Hi,
If you can send us a PM with the details of your E425 please and your contact details we will investigate and come back to you on Monday.

Alternatively you can email Kath Powell our Customer Services Director or myself Andy Spacey on [email protected] or [email protected]

Thanks
Andy Spacey - Swift Technical


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## Telbell

Dave-see my Post subsequent to Gerald's-which "crossed" yours.

I repeat-yes there are many examples of such disappearing Posters & I undersatnd what you & Gerald are saying.

But I stand by my comment that I take Steve's remarks about subscribers as being in the context of THIS Thread.

And I think it's a little early to make judgements about the motives of the OP-or whatever she may call herself in the future :wink:


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## 94055

Telbell said:


> whatever she may call herself in the future :wink:


Tel,

I may comment on your previous postings using my comments made later on. Could you please point me in the direction of the post made by unhappywithswift that indicates it is a female?

If I have missed it then apologies to her...............him!

Steve


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## Kelcat

The mods would best be able to tell, but even in the time I've been a member several of these 'suspect' posts have been put on & each that I've read has had a similar contextual & grammatical style and all have not gone on to become members. Theres alot of 'give & take' on MHF & most of it fairly reasonable - if they were genuine why not stick around?


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## Zebedee

SandJ said:


> Could you please point me in the direction of the post made by unhappywithswift that indicates it is a female?
> Steve


Hi Steve

Third para. First post.

_"Being a fair woman I decided that everyone is entitled to their own views and vowed to make my own mind up on the manufacturer and basically gave them a clean slate. I definitely did not set out to fault find, why on earth would I ?? "_

Dave


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## pneumatician

*Complaints*

I have owned two Autosleepers and been very pleased with the build on both. The second one suffered from lack of umph but this was because the Peugeot engine was to small also the Fiat cab and chassis was abit basic. Also found the after sales quite good. Spares supply a bit half soaked tho!

Current Van is a German La Strada dont know what after sales is like as the van is now six years old and we have never needed them.

Steve


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## 94055

Zebedee said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please point me in the direction of the post made by unhappywithswift that indicates it is a female?
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Steve
> 
> Third para. First post.
> 
> _"Being a fair woman I decided that everyone is entitled to their own views and vowed to make my own mind up on the manufacturer and basically gave them a clean slate. I definitely did not set out to fault find, why on earth would I ?? "_
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Dave

Thank you, that will teach me to check and re-check. :lol:

Tel

Yes I am having a go at this poster, she has given no information for anything related to her comments. Who did she contact at Swift for instance?

Steve


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## brianamelia

sadly the content of the initial post seems to have been lost in the mire
bri


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## SwiftGroup

unhappywithswift said:


> font=Arial] [/font]
> To those of you critising my use of user name, I take on board your comments and I apologise as it does seem rather juvenile of me to have done that. In all honesty I was very frustrated with my situation and let that get the better of me. I will change it when I work out how to do so!
> 
> I am very familiar with this forum, but up till now only as a regular reader, hence my knowledge of the Swift aspect in this forum section, but did feel driven to vent my spleen publicly, which is very unlike me, it's just sheer frustration.
> 
> I also take on board the general concensous that I would be a little hasty to part with the van (E425 on 130 multijet) but I have felt quite let down by the attitude I have received from Swift and I have urge to purge myself of the whole issue because of it.
> 
> I read with pleasure, and I genuinely mean that, that others have had good service form Swift because I would not wish others to be subject to the apathy afforded in my direction.
> 
> As Swift have been headlined as a company that deals directly via this forum in terms of addressing issues voiced, I sincerely hope they can offer me solice in my dissappointment, so I await any response with anticipation.
> 
> FRUSTRATED.


Please send a PM with your details and that of your dealer and who you spoke to at Swift.Peter.


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## geraldandannie

SwiftGroup said:


> Please send a PM with your details and that of your dealer and who you spoke to at Swift.Peter.


Hi Peter

Unfortunately, the original poster has not subscribed (yet :wink: ) and can't send PMs. Maybe it would be worth the £10 subs fee to her? 

Gerald


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## Telbell

Steve
You may be right-it (she/he//) may be an "Iffy" Poster (praps time will tell) -and she/he could have been a bit "circumspect" in choosing the Username (a fact the Poster has acknowledged)

All I'm saying is let things take its course-which they seem to have done with Swift making an offer-rather than jump down the Poster's throat at this early stage., which the Pro-Swifts seem to enjoy doing.

Perhaps the Poster's objectives will be achieved & hopefully we may find out.

Yours "I;m Happy with My Fleurette" (new Username :lol: :lol: )

bri- you;re right :wink:


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## moblee

I love my Swift & its Fiat underpins :!: ......But thats just my opinion  

We're thinking of changing soon to a ?...............Swift sundance 630l. :wink: If its got a fiat base That won't put me off either.


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## bigbazza

Telbell said:


> Steve
> You may be right-it (she/he//) may be an "Iffy" Poster (praps time will tell) -and she/he could have been a bit "circumspect" in choosing the Username (a fact the Poster has acknowledged)
> 
> All I'm saying is let things take its course-which they seem to have done with Swift making an offer-rather than jump down the Poster's throat at this early stage., which the Pro-Swifts seem to enjoy doing.
> 
> Perhaps the Poster's objectives will be achieved & hopefully we may find out.
> 
> My sentiments exactly Steve, I didn't have the necessary writing skills in my previous post to say it like you have.
> (By the way Steve, tell your lads to take it easy it's only a game)


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## Telbell

> My sentiments exactly Steve,


Sorry bazza-confused here: My quote but you refer to Steve??


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## bigbazza

Sorry Tell I'm stupid as well.

I was refering to you


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## 1happy

*Swift & poster!*



unhappywithswift said:


> font=Arial] [/font]
> To those of you critising my use of user name, I take on board your comments and I apologise as it does seem rather juvenile of me to have done that. In all honesty I was very frustrated with my situation and let that get the better of me. I will change it when I work out how to do so!
> 
> I am very familiar with this forum, but up till now only as a regular reader, hence my knowledge of the Swift aspect in this forum section, but did feel driven to vent my spleen publicly, which is very unlike me, it's just sheer frustration.
> 
> I also take on board the general concensous that I would be a little hasty to part with the van (E425 on 130 multijet) but I have felt quite let down by the attitude I have received from Swift and I have urge to purge myself of the whole issue because of it.
> 
> I read with pleasure, and I genuinely mean that, that others have had good service form Swift because I would not wish others to be subject to the apathy afforded in my direction.
> 
> As Swift have been headlined as a company that deals directly via this forum in terms of addressing issues voiced, I sincerely hope they can offer me solice in my dissappointment, so I await any response with anticipation.
> 
> FRUSTRATED.


I think this 'follow up' post goes some way towards showing that perhaps it's not a 'bogus' post :?: 
Time will tell :idea: 
I know that many people find this forum when they have 'concern's' & google their 'problem' or watch for a while to 'test the water' ... so its not unreasonable to presume 'she' could be genuine & if not given a hard time, may subscribe & become an addict too :lol: 
Just my take on this issue (speaking as someone who has had a rant or two of my own  )
C


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## HARRYH

*Unhappy with Swift still to decide.*

I share the fustration of owning a Sept 2008 Swift/Marquis motorhome
As Im in the middle of tying to get satisfactory completion to warranty work I am not going into detail except to say its been a number of weeks out of use for one thing or another. 
I cant judge if its The Dealer Marquise thats incompetent or Swift that lack dealership control. 
In fairness to Swift, Kath on their forum has eased some my frustation as a person to talk to about my concerns.
I think if you could find a service engineer with common sense, experience of motorhome repair whos able to confer the details of the motorhome defect and what the owner wants doing back to Swift we might get satisfaction.
The listening link from Custumer, Dealer service and Swift needs improving. That first year inspection should be free & more thorough.


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## fransgrandad

*Re: Unhappy with Swift still to decide.*



HARRYH said:


> I share the fustration of owning a Sept 2008 Swift/Marquis motorhome
> As Im in the middle of tying to get satisfactory completion to warranty work I am not going into detail except to say its been a number of weeks out of use for one thing or another.
> I cant judge if its The Dealer Marquise thats incompetent or Swift that lack dealership control.
> In fairness to Swift, Kath on their forum has eased some my frustation as a person to talk to about my concerns.
> I think if you could find a service engineer with common sense, experience of motorhome repair whos able to confer the details of the motorhome defect and what the owner wants doing back to Swift we might get satisfaction.
> The listening link from Custumer, Dealer service and Swift needs improving. That first year inspection should be free & more thorough.


Harry,

If any one is to help you would need to give us some details, I am going to the Swift factory soon, maybe I can speak to Andy while there, PM me if you feel I can help in any way.

Les.


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## 119354

Firstly, I would like to apologise for the way in which this thread has escalated, I really didn't intend it to do so, and I feel a little saddened that some may 'disbelieve' my authenticity. I can't really prove that one way or another, and quite honestly I am more than a little upset that I feel I have to, but that's forum culture I suppose.

In essence, I would like to reitterate my initial intentions for the topic.
I was merely posing the question that - was this apathetic (in my view) feedback from Swift in the face of my attempts to communicate with them actually 'normal' or perhaps an exception. That's all I was posing as a question.

The issue of dealership has proved a running thread within this conversation so I would like to add something here. In actual fact, my dealership, and this is why I have made a point of NOT naming them, struggled on my behalf to communicate in a lucid and open fashion with Swift because THEY THEMSELVES found it a little difficult to follow up queries, they themselves said that they were being handled in an obtruse fashion at times. I was happy to take up the mantle of making gentle and well mannered enquiries myself, and this is where I encountered my initial problems.

While I very much appreciate the members from Swift responding to me on this forum, I honestly do not feel that I want to deepen the issue by supplying all my details, thus the dealership, as I was merely posing a question as to the normality of my experiences.
I sincerely hope that the members involved take note of the way the Swift members on this site conduct themselves in this helpful fashion and learn some lessons from that.

Signing off.

MURIEL AND PETE.


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## Telbell

Hi Muriel and Pete

Unfortunately there sometimes is a temptation for people to make perhaps unfair early judgements about new Posters- especially if there is a criticism about issues close to their heart where suspicions abound. Your choice of username didnt help & you've made reference to that.

I do hope you make contact with Peter at Swift and give him the chance of listening to your grievance. Your complaints seem to indicate that his efforts to spread the culture of good service & communication are stalling & he needs to know how and why.

I also hope you choose to "stay with us" and forgive those who may possibly regret knee jerk reactions to your Post in the early stages. Best change your username if you do eh? :lol:


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## bigbazza

They sound very genuine to me and it's a shame that we don't give people the benefit of the doubt until prooved otherwise.
If you decide to come back Murial and Pete I think you would be very welcome. Your further explanation's regarding your problem sound very reasonable and maybe dipping your toe in on here may give you some priority and you get sorted quickly.
If you do decide to join maybe you could tell us of the positive outcome (or otherwise)
Good luck
Barry


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## roger-the-lodger

unhappywithswift said:


> ...was this apathetic (in my view) feedback from Swift in the face of my attempts to communicate with them actually 'normal' or perhaps an exception. That's all I was posing as a question. Signing off.
> 
> MURIEL AND PETE.


Hi Muriel & Pete

Personally I dislike any "pro-Swift / anti-Swift" politics intensely and find it counter-productive. Since buying my Bessacarr E560 last September I've formed a reasonably clear view of the Swift Group and of its strengths and weaknesses. I've also learned enough from this forum and other sources to form a view of Swift in relation to the industry. Nothing I have learned makes me regret my choice of product. I don't wish to be branded a "pro-Swift" because of that. Anyone who feels inclined to pin that lable on me, please re-read my statement and think about it!

However I have encountered few problems with my van; had I encountered more my view would almost surely be different and it's clear to me from the experiences of others that a less happy outcome would certainly have been possible.

I want to leave subjective judgement out of this post and give two points in response that seem relevant, hopefully helpful and essentially factual, although based, of course, on my personal experience. They are:

1. The possible customer service response by Swift is inconsistent and depends on the method of contact and who is responding. Phone contact using published numbers (including Switchboard and asking for "Customer Service" or similar) results in very patchy response ranging from adequate to abysmal. Contact via this forum results in a much higher quality of response - in my experience always adequate at the least and frequently superb. Contact at senior levels (let's not beat bushes - Kath and Peter) results in an overwhelmingly better reponse than does contact at a more junior level.

2. Communication between Swift and a dealer can leave a lot to be desired; again I say this from my experience and in relation to my dealer so this could be representative of the wider picture or it could be the exception. I found it difficult on one occasion to know who was giving the true picture here, and I had no obvious way to find out.

I have a lot of manufacturing industry experience and I certainly can apply deductive logic and judgements to the factual picture but I'm not going to do that here. I'm at a user feedback meeting at the factory the week after next and I promise you that if I have anything to do with it, both of the above points will be explored with a view to improvement action. :wink:

I'm worried by your "signing off" line in your last post. It suggests to me that you might not intend to subscribe to MHF. I think that would be a pity. From what you have said, you are probably much more experienced motorhomers than I am (this is my first van) but I have no doubt at all that you would find membership an excellent investment. It would also mean you could PM me so I could understand your experience with Swift in more detail and I could build this into my knowledge before the meeting.  Please consider this. You could also PM reply Peter or Kath and I'm confident you will see what I mean in what I've said.

Best wishes

Roger


----------



## bigbazza

Roger, as someone has already posted, you cannot PM if your a non-member.


----------



## RichardnGill

Barry, if you read Rodgers reply again you will see that he does recommend them to join so they can send PM's




Thank for that excellent well balanced post Rodger. I currently dont have a Swift but will be very likely to buy in in the next few weeks, so I am very interested in some of your comments.


Richard...


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

*2. Communication between Swift and a dealer can leave a lot to be desired;*

As you are not a franchised dealer, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping statement. to set the record straight, we have absoulutely no problem in that area.

If we did, we would not be stocking their product I can assure you.

Peter


----------



## roger-the-lodger

bigbazza said:


> Roger, as someone has already posted, you cannot PM if your a non-member.


Indeed, I know that Bazza - that's why I hope they decide to fork out £10 and sign up as members. I really do think they would never regret doing so. I can quite understand why they would be reluctant to give some of the detail of their case in a public forum posting (I have been exactly in that position myself) but if they PM me I can probably help them; not only them but others in their situation. If they PM Kath or Pete they will help themselves very immediately and directly.

If they do want to sign up and would prefer a more long-term-positive username, they do not need to go to the complication of admin change of username - just open a new account with a new, more appropriate username, let the old account fester, when sending a PM , make it clear that your new name was the old "unhappywith swift". Simple!

I would not impute any false motives at all to this OP, but I guess I'm mystified why anyone would use just 4 free posts as they have so far done, and not see, apparently, the benefit of a £10 subscription in terms of ongoing help, advice, access to their converter and many other benefits. It's a derisory sum if you can afford a motorhome and repays superbly (usual disclaimer - nothing to do with MHF other than satisfied user etc.). But I'm mystified why anyone would wish to get shot of a van, just like that, in their circumstances (far from the worst experience I've heard of, either with Swift or many other makes). And I say that, even though I do not for a moment underestimate the huge sense of frustration and disappointment that any customer will feel on encountering such problems in a motorhome for which they have expended a large sum of money.

Anyway. I do hope they sign up for MHF, I hope they PM me, I hope they PM Kath or Peter at Swift. and I hope they enjoy and benefit from a long and fruitful membership of MHF.

Roger


----------



## roger-the-lodger

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> *2. Communication between Swift and a dealer can leave a lot to be desired;*
> 
> As you are not a franchised dealer, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping statement. to set the record straight, we have absoulutely no problem in that area.
> 
> If we did, we would not be stocking their product I can assure you.
> 
> Peter


Peter, I can only suggest you read the line you have quoted from me more carefully:

"*can* leave a lot to be desired"

The operative word is "can". Had I said "leaves a lot to be desired" (i.e stated this as a general case) your comment would be entirely valid.

But I didn't! So your comment is entirely invalid! :wink:

I only need one case of imperfect communication to make my comment true. I only have one case of which I am sure - my own experience with Swift and my dealer. I daresay that in your case, all communication with Swift is superb and that you have no such problem as you say.

Rather as I daresay you are a fine dealer giving excellent service to your customers.

Would that your example (in either aspect - communication or service) were typical of the industry! 

Bit of advice - stand up, rightly, for what you do, enjoy the competitive advantage it gives you, but please, please, please, don't inadvertently appear to support the less capable dealers, not ever.

I don't have to be a franchised dealer in your industry to know what is possible in terms of good service and communication, or to know as a customer what I have personally experienced in terms of real communication and relationship difficulties between a franchised dealer and Swift.

Roger


----------



## bigbazza

Very eloquently and politely put Roger.


----------



## nukeadmin

the other issue which i have discussed with the moderators and one that i have decided to air in public also is that of competitors.

We have had a number of members join over the last 6 months or so who do not give any details about themselves, use anonymous type email accounts to create membership on MHF and then give very negative comments about Swift and other companies who are represented here on MHF.

Now these members included Murial etc may all be totally above board, but there is room there for some uncertainty.

What I am alluding to is that a competitor to a company could come on MHF and rubbish them and their products / service and then leave without giving any indication who they are 

Its an awkward one and one which we struggle with finding a solution for. Once a member has subscribed the situation changes somewhat as obviously they then have to provide a full name and address and card details so their identity is confirmed. This doesn't prove they are not from a competitor but at least we have an audit trail. This is why more credence is given for a subscriber comment than from a standard member.

I do wander why someone would join MHF and voice concerns about a van and then leave without contacting Swift, telling us who their dealer was or any other traceable facet


----------



## fransgrandad

*-> Is this normal ???*



roger-the-lodger said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> *2. Communication between Swift and a dealer can leave a lot to be desired;*
> 
> As you are not a franchised dealer, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping statement. to set the record straight, we have absoulutely no problem in that area.
> 
> If we did, we would not be stocking their product I can assure you.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> Peter, I can only suggest you read the line you have quoted from me more carefully:
> 
> "*can* leave a lot to be desired"
> 
> The operative word is "can". Had I said "leaves a lot to be desired" (i.e stated this as a general case) your comment would be entirely valid.
> 
> But I didn't! So your comment is entirely invalid! :wink:
> 
> I only need one case of imperfect communication to make my comment true. I only have one case of which I am sure - my own experience with Swift and my dealer. I daresay that in your case, all communication with Swift is superb and that you have no such problem as you say.
> 
> Rather as I daresay you are a fine dealer giving excellent service to your customers.
> 
> Would that your example (in either aspect - communication or service) were typical of the industry!
> 
> Bit of advice - stand up, rightly, for what you do, enjoy the competitive advantage it gives you, but please, please, please, don't inadvertently appear to support the less capable dealers, not ever.
> 
> I don't have to be a franchised dealer in your industry to know what is possible in terms of good service and communication, or to know as a customer what I have personally experienced in terms of real communication and relationship difficulties between a franchised dealer and Swift.
> 
> Roger
Click to expand...

Roger,

Maybe then it would have been fairer to add "in my experience" or similar
to which I will add I have had no problems communicating with Swift
I am not a dealer, just one of Swifts Satisfied customers.


----------



## bigbazza

Nuke, in my village we have a village hall with an online forum and they kick people off all the time for not providing enough details. They are inundated with people trying to advertise etc for free.
I don't think it would be wrong to exclude someone if they try to be annonimous. :!: :?:


----------



## 94055

I have thrown away numerous answers compiled as a reply to some points raised on here. I found it very strange that no details whatsoever where beng provided.

The initial question was "Is this normal?"

The answer is NO

The main reason for altering my reply so many times was to try and not turn this thread into a slanging match.

I do not believe them to be genuine, that is my gut feeling and also the lack of detail does not give the post credance.

One thing to consider from some of the initial post the



> My dealer responded the very moment I contacted them and came out and sealed the leak within the day.


Good job they lived localy :roll:



> Then, during my first road trip, my water heater wouldn't work on electric. On returning the vehicle to the dealer, it was found it had never been wired in at all! Again something rectified by my dealer.


The dealer should have found the poor wiring on PDI



> Now my dealer was not entirely blameless in this as it should have been spotted previous to the sale, but have compensated me suitably and given me what I consider a genuine and honest explanation for the oversight.


I would not be happy, I certainly would not be praising the dealer no matter what compensation received.



> I intend to offload the vehicle after only a couple of months use. This is a situation I am not comfortable with as my consience plagues me with passing on these problems to someone else.


Must be made of money.
Why are they passing on the problems? Surely the superb Dealer have/will have sorted them out already!

Just one other thing, why do members ask to receive Pm's? Why is it not voiced on open forum?

Bye for now :roll:

Steve


----------



## roamingsue

Could I suggest that perhaps a bit more tolerance from everybody in considering other people's point of view might be sensible rather than trying to bite people's heads off! On all sides.

It is understandible if somebody has spent a large sum of money on a dream and it turns out to have problems that they are going to be upset! There can be people who are delibrately vindictive I know, but most are not. There are ways of getting people to justify themselves or tone it down in a more moderate way..... Also if you do not over react people often end up shooting themselves in the foot. 

People who have had good experiances of Swift sure you should say so and point out how good the service you have received that is only fair on the manufacterer... but somebody else maybe have had a different experiance so no need to attack. You maybe able to advise how the new poster gets help... To be fair mistakes happen in all organisations the way that these are dealt with shows the quality of the company. It looks like they are already in action.

What it is good to see is a dealer that is doing the right thing because quite frankly I have become very dissolusioned with the whole business. Possibly this is an overeaction I accept but it where I am at at the moment.


----------



## Telbell

Hi Steve

Perhaps the sort of measures that Nuke appears to have in mind for the future may help address the issues he validly makes about competitors.

As has been said- Muriel & Pete may or may not be "genuine". My own "opinion" is that their follow up Posts confirmed my initial view that they are genuine- may be wrong of course.

If I recollect correctly your very first reaction to the opening post was as regards the Username chosen- your first post gave no hint that you thought they may not be genuine. I can perhaps understand your "concern" (that's how I'll put it anyway :wink: ) that as someone very very Pro Swift there was now someone on here with such a Username! I found your initial reaction "interesting"

Since then you've sought to justify your suspicions. Fair enough.

Personally I saw nothing in the initial Post to make me think they weren't 
genuine with honest grievances and I thought the reaction they received from subscribers was generally unfair and a bit "reactionary". Perhaps they should have delayed putting their views in print for a while.?


----------



## 94055

To be fair to M & P

I await a reply from Swift that states Muriel & Pete have made themselves known and have accepted the offer of help. Now surely that has to happen?

If Swift state that M & P are genuine I will offer my sincere apologies to M & P and all who I may have upset.

Would someone like to give a deadline for a responce? If the deadline passes will I receive an apology from? Or will it be a case of, I have frightened M & P away?

Just another point to consider



> I am very familiar with this forum, but up till now only as a regular reader, hence my knowledge of the Swift aspect in this forum section, but did feel driven to vent my spleen publicly, which is very unlike me, it's just sheer frustration.


If that is the case then, why was the initial question asked?

Tel

You are correct about usernames being my first comments, I have had to change my username amongst other items because someone complained in secret. That is not my style so I voiced my objections in public.

Steve


----------



## Telbell

Steve

I'm not sure putting "deadlines" on responses with Swift will help prove anything one way or another.

If M and P choose to change Username & stay with us-great. But it may be that they've had enough-as indicate by others the last line of their last Post indicates as such.

If they choose then to "leave it at that" and not contact Swift norjoin us then, for me, nothing is changed as regards any suspicions-nor is anything proven. Damage already done praps?


----------



## 94055

Tel



Telbell said:


> Damage already done praps?


Or they are not genuine maybe?

I am leaving this now so will not reply unless things change

Steve


----------



## Zebedee

Telbell said:


> Damage already done praps?


I think you may be worrying too much Tel.

Steve's last quote from Muriel's post, _"I am very familiar with this forum, but up till now only as a regular reader, hence my knowledge of the Swift aspect in this forum section . . . "_ suggests that she fully understands the workings of the forum.

That being so, she will have observed other non-subscribing members (who certainly were proven to be Trolls) making initial posts quite similar in many ways to her own, and being challenged to provide backup evidence and detail.

This is not done from malice (usually 8O ) but from a genuine desire to avoid MHF facing litigation . . . as happened quite recently. You will recall Nuke's cautionary post referring to "_unsubstantiated accusations_" etc., and asking all members to be vigilant.

For anyone coming in late and reading posts back to front (Yes, me too!  ) I'd suggest a read of Nukes post earlier in this thread.

It explains his concerns very clearly, and without bias or malice of any kind.

 <<See it here>>

Dave


----------



## SwiftGroup

unhappywithswift said:


> Firstly, I would like to apologise for the way in which this thread has escalated, I really didn't intend it to do so, and I feel a little saddened that some may 'disbelieve' my authenticity. I can't really prove that one way or another, and quite honestly I am more than a little upset that I feel I have to, but that's forum culture I suppose.
> 
> In essence, I would like to reitterate my initial intentions for the topic.
> I was merely posing the question that - was this apathetic (in my view) feedback from Swift in the face of my attempts to communicate with them actually 'normal' or perhaps an exception. That's all I was posing as a question.
> 
> The issue of dealership has proved a running thread within this conversation so I would like to add something here. In actual fact, my dealership, and this is why I have made a point of NOT naming them, struggled on my behalf to communicate in a lucid and open fashion with Swift because THEY THEMSELVES found it a little difficult to follow up queries, they themselves said that they were being handled in an obtruse fashion at times. I was happy to take up the mantle of making gentle and well mannered enquiries myself, and this is where I encountered my initial problems.
> 
> While I very much appreciate the members from Swift responding to me on this forum, I honestly do not feel that I want to deepen the issue by supplying all my details, thus the dealership, as I was merely posing a question as to the normality of my experiences.
> I sincerely hope that the members involved take note of the way the Swift members on this site conduct themselves in this helpful fashion and learn some lessons from that.
> 
> Signing off.
> 
> MURIEL AND PETE.


We have had no contact from you therefore I cannot comment.Participating on this forum opens us up for criticism and therefore should ensure my team deal with all customers in a proper manner.I would ask you were you there personally when the Dealer spoke to us? If not it seems strange for a Dealer to criticise us in this manner. Peter.


----------



## Telbell

Dave

I've read Nuke's Post & in fact made reference to it. I've said I fully understand his and others' concerns.

The fact remains that I am of the view that in this instance people were too quick to jump to assumptions about whether they are "Trolls"/genuine or not-partially on the basis of choice of username, which certainly incensed Steve and prompted him to a "like for like" Post

I'll maintain this stance whether or not "M&P" turn out to be genuine. My issue is the speed with which people jumped down their throats from the onset-hardly welcoming?

At least let's give people a fair chance.

I'm joining Steve on being "out" of this one now unless I feel I can say anymore of significance in the light of further developments :wink:


----------



## fransgrandad

*Is this normal*



SandJ said:


> I have thrown away numerous answers compiled as a reply to some points raised on here. I found it very strange that no details whatsoever where beng provided.
> 
> The initial question was "Is this normal?"
> 
> The answer is NO
> 
> The main reason for altering my reply so many times was to try and not turn this thread into a slanging match.
> 
> I do not believe them to be genuine, that is my gut feeling and also the lack of detail does not give the post credance.
> 
> One thing to consider from some of the initial post the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dealer responded the very moment I contacted them and came out and sealed the leak within the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Good job they lived locally :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, during my first road trip, my water heater wouldn't work on electric. On returning the vehicle to the dealer, it was found it had never been wired in at all! Again something rectified by my dealer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The dealer should have found the poor wiring on PDI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now my dealer was not entirely blameless in this as it should have been spotted previous to the sale, but have compensated me suitably and given me what I consider a genuine and honest explanation for the oversight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be happy, I certainly would not be praising the dealer no matter what compensation received.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I intend to offload the vehicle after only a couple of months use. This is a situation I am not comfortable with as my consience plagues me with passing on these problems to someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must be made of money.
> Why are they passing on the problems? Surely the superb Dealer have/will have sorted them out already!
> 
> Just one other thing, why do members ask to receive Pm's? Why is it not voiced on open forum?
> 
> Bye for now :roll:
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

If your comment re PMs was pointed in my direction. My reasoning was thus. The guy who asked for help did not seem keen to give all the information in public, (and who would blame him reading some of the posts that have come in on this and other subjects) I happen to going to up to Swift later this month and in an attempt to help aked for an outline of his concerns.

It transpires that two fairly simple faults have been made worse by the dealer (nothing new there) The gent is going to speak to Swift on Monday
If he still feels no one is listening I will mention his plight to The Swift team while there.

I can only pass the message on, what action Swift take is for them to decide, the important factor is surely that we try to help each other where we can, by whatever means are available, or am I missing the point of this forum.

Recent postings show a lot of criticism of fellow members, why? none are expert in every aspect of any situation, and some times two heads are better than one. May be one has to be a member of the 'regular posters club'. One thing for sure that's the last offer of help I'll make.

Les.


----------



## Bamboozled

It seems to me that every few weeks we get a controversial post from a non subscriber which is either clearly a wind up or generates lots of ‘are they/are they not genuine’ commentary.

If someone is interested in motorcaravaning they are freely able to browse the forum and asses if joining will be of value to them and for me this is good enough for non-subscribers.

If someone wants to ‘use’ this forum to communicate publicly with say Swift then I don’t think that there should be a problem for them to pay their tenner.

So my vote would go to Nuke:
- Implementing a system where non-subscribers are allocated usernames, only choosing their own when subscribing, or preferably
- Doing away with the free initial posts, and possibly
- Vetting user names to ensure they are not loaded or prejudicial prior to them being granted

Yes, this is more Big Brother but is likely to save the membership and the manufacturers/ dealers who have put their heads above the parapit from much of this ‘noise in the system’.


----------



## SwiftGroup

*Re: Is this normal*



fransgrandad said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have thrown away numerous answers compiled as a reply to some points raised on here. I found it very strange that no details whatsoever where beng provided.
> 
> The initial question was "Is this normal?"
> 
> The answer is NO
> 
> The main reason for altering my reply so many times was to try and not turn this thread into a slanging match.
> 
> I do not believe them to be genuine, that is my gut feeling and also the lack of detail does not give the post credance.
> 
> One thing to consider from some of the initial post the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dealer responded the very moment I contacted them and came out and sealed the leak within the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Good job they lived locally :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, during my first road trip, my water heater wouldn't work on electric. On returning the vehicle to the dealer, it was found it had never been wired in at all! Again something rectified by my dealer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The dealer should have found the poor wiring on PDI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now my dealer was not entirely blameless in this as it should have been spotted previous to the sale, but have compensated me suitably and given me what I consider a genuine and honest explanation for the oversight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be happy, I certainly would not be praising the dealer no matter what compensation received.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I intend to offload the vehicle after only a couple of months use. This is a situation I am not comfortable with as my consience plagues me with passing on these problems to someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must be made of money.
> Why are they passing on the problems? Surely the superb Dealer have/will have sorted them out already!
> 
> Just one other thing, why do members ask to receive Pm's? Why is it not voiced on open forum?
> 
> Bye for now :roll:
> 
> Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Steve,
> 
> If your comment re PMs was pointed in my direction. My reasoning was thus. The guy who asked for help did not seem keen to give all the information in public, (and who would blame him reading some of the posts that have come in on this and other subjects) I happen to going to up to Swift later this month and in an attempt to help aked for an outline of his concerns.
> 
> It transpires that two fairly simple faults have been made worse by the dealer (nothing new there) The gent is going to speak to Swift on Monday
> If he still feels no one is listening I will mention his plight to The Swift team while there.
> 
> I can only pass the message on, what action Swift take is for them to decide, the important factor is surely that we try to help each other where we can, by whatever means are available, or am I missing the point of this forum.
> 
> Recent postings show a lot of criticism of fellow members, why? none are expert in every aspect of any situation, and some times two heads are better than one. May be one has to be a member of the 'regular posters club'. One thing for sure that's the last offer of help I'll make.
> 
> Les.
Click to expand...

Les,he needs to ask for AMY as Kath is away tomorrow.Peter.


----------



## nukeadmin

> So my vote would go to Nuke:
> - Implementing a system where non-subscribers are allocated usernames, only choosing their own when subscribing, or preferably
> - Doing away with the free initial posts, and possibly
> - Vetting user names to ensure they are not loaded or prejudicial prior to them being granted


the first option would be complicated to code up and not worth the time imho
the second I would be very loathe to do, i like the "taster" that a member gets by having these posts, the only thing that I have considered in the past is reducing them to 2/3 instead of the existing 5 which is a 2s job.

The latter has been discussed by the mods, but at the risk of being too big brotheresque what names would we allow and which would we block ? 
If i block anything Swift based then I would be accused of being in the pocket of Swift as I have a test van from them lol which certainly isn't the case, if i blocked anything with my own company name of Outdoorbits in I would be seen to be biased  do you get my problem lol


----------



## 94055

*Re: Is this normal*



fransgrandad said:


> Steve,
> 
> If your comment re PMs was pointed in my direction. My reasoning was thus. The guy who asked for help did not seem keen to give all the information in public, (and who would blame him reading some of the posts that have come in on this and other subjects) I happen to going to up to Swift later this month and in an attempt to help aked for an outline of his concerns.
> Les.


Les,

I have sent you a Pm 8O

That is it from me


----------



## roger-the-lodger

SwiftGroup said:


> ...Participating on this forum opens us up for criticism and therefore should ensure my team deal with all customers in a proper manner.I would ask you were you there personally when the Dealer spoke to us? If not it seems strange for a Dealer to criticise us in this manner. Peter.


Yes Peter, strange is the right word. We know so little of this case that no real conclusion or learning can result from it, sadly. The OP has wasted an opportunity in my view. I have much sympathy with your position when posters behave as this one seems to be doing.

In relation to dealer "strangeness", my own experience suggests that this kind of thing can happen when a dealer has other issues of a commercial or personal nature with a manufacturer and conveys a negative impression to a customer, especially post-sale, because of matters unrelated to the customer's situation. This is unprofessional on the dealer's part but that doesn't stop it happening.

I did find a difference between phone contact on Swift's standard number ("contact us" on the website) and contact via MHF, the latter usually involving Kath and/or you. Since I discovered and joined MHF the response I have had from Swift has been superb; prior to that it was patchy. On more than one query I was firmly referred back to my dealer by the Swift person on the phone even though I made it clear my dealer had said he was unable to help and had referred me to Swift. Post-MHF I received excellent help from yourselves on the same queries. Yet this help was not intrinsically expensive for you to provide; it was simple documentation. It would have been so much better, and cheaper for you, if the phone enquiry had produced that result right away! And better still if when I rang I could have been quickly identified and recognised as a customer - I was not, even though I gave all the necessary details.

Roger


----------



## wobby

nukeadmin said:


> So my vote would go to Nuke:
> - Implementing a system where non-subscribers are allocated usernames, only choosing their own when subscribing, or preferably
> - Doing away with the free initial posts, and possibly
> - Vetting user names to ensure they are not loaded or prejudicial prior to them being granted
> 
> 
> 
> the first option would be complicated to code up and not worth the time imho
> the second I would be very loathe to do, i like the "taster" that a member gets by having these posts, the only thing that I have considered in the past is reducing them to 2/3 instead of the existing 5 which is a 2s job.
> 
> The latter has been discussed by the mods, but at the risk of being too big brotheresque what names would we allow and which would we block ?
> If i block anything Swift based then I would be accused of being in the pocket of Swift as I have a test van from them lol which certainly isn't the case, if i blocked anything with my own company name of Outdoorbits in I would be seen to be biased  do you get my problem lol
Click to expand...

Seems to me your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't.
However after reading this somewhat protracted thread, I think the looser is "unhappywithswift" a name that should be removed.
After all do we really think he/she really intend becoming a paid up member with that name, its an affront to the Swift group.

Wobby


----------



## Zebedee

wobby said:


> I think the looser is *"unhappywithswift" a name that should be removed*.
> After all do we really think he/she really intend becoming a paid up member with that name, its an affront to the Swift group.
> Wobby


I doubt if you are alone in that sentiment Wobby, but it's a difficult one. :? 8O

Where do we draw the line, and who decides what name is acceptable and which is not? :?

In this case your opening sentence says it all! 

Dave


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## nukeadmin

just to add to this, I have received an email from Muriel, she has asked amongst other things for her username to be changed from "unhappywithswift" to MURIELANDPETE which i have done.

She has provided some information but due to its nature I would rather she posts herself about it, but as she is not a subscriber this isn't possible at present. She acknowledges what has been said about the identity advantage of her being a subscriber but lacks a credit card to do so.

I have emailed her saying that we can accept credit / debit card / paypal / cheques and even direct BACS transfers so she may yet become a subscriber.


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## Telbell

Hmm- interesting! Actions of a "Troll"? I sense some humble pie may be passed around? :wink:


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## stevenjonathan

Its all been a bit rude to the "non subscriber" hasn't it?....


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## Rapide561

*Forum*



stevenjonathan said:


> Its all been a bit rude to the "non subscriber" hasn't it?....


Quite.

Russell


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## SwiftGroup

roger-the-lodger said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Participating on this forum opens us up for criticism and therefore should ensure my team deal with all customers in a proper manner.I would ask you were you there personally when the Dealer spoke to us? If not it seems strange for a Dealer to criticise us in this manner. Peter.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Peter, strange is the right word. We know so little of this case that no real conclusion or learning can result from it, sadly. The OP has wasted an opportunity in my view. I have much sympathy with your position when posters behave as this one seems to be doing.
> 
> In relation to dealer "strangeness", my own experience suggests that this kind of thing can happen when a dealer has other issues of a commercial or personal nature with a manufacturer and conveys a negative impression to a customer, especially post-sale, because of matters unrelated to the customer's situation. This is unprofessional on the dealer's part but that doesn't stop it happening.
> 
> I did find a difference between phone contact on Swift's standard number ("contact us" on the website) and contact via MHF, the latter usually involving Kath and/or you. Since I discovered and joined MHF the response I have had from Swift has been superb; prior to that it was patchy. On more than one query I was firmly referred back to my dealer by the Swift person on the phone even though I made it clear my dealer had said he was unable to help and had referred me to Swift. Post-MHF I received excellent help from yourselves on the same queries. Yet this help was not intrinsically expensive for you to provide; it was simple documentation. It would have been so much better, and cheaper for you, if the phone enquiry had produced that result right away! And better still if when I rang I could have been quickly identified and recognised as a customer - I was not, even though I gave all the necessary details.
> 
> Roger
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback Roger which we will take on board.We have a conflict of interest as theoretically you are not our customer and some dealers dont want us involved as they say it undermines them but I have started to overrule this now and I am actively trying to encourage more dialloge.Peter.


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## bigbazza

I'm with you Tell


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## roger-the-lodger

SwiftGroup said:


> Thanks for the feedback Roger which we will take on board.We have a conflict of interest as theoretically you are not our customer and some dealers dont want us involved as they say it undermines them but I have started to overrule this now and I am actively trying to encourage more dialloge.Peter.


Yes I understand your point, Peter. The dealer is your customer and the end-user is the dealer's customer. There are two main areas I can think of where customer service problems arise. You have put your finger on the first one - it is the inter-relationship between the 3 parties (end-user, dealer, manufacturer) and the politics (frankly) that can be encountered. I don't want to say more about that here, except that pro-active dealer management really does have a crucial role. I'm sorry for the "management-speak" though (even worse if you say "pro-active partner management", eh? :wink: ).

The second area is warranty and warranty work. I may have this badly wrong (please put me right, if so) but I understand the warranty offered by Swift is exactly that - it's not a dealer warranty (legally Swift warrants), but any work required under that warranty would usually be carried out by the supplying dealer. That warranty essentially covers the habitation side of the product; the "base vehicle" side of the product is warranted by the base vehicle manufacturer, and work required under this warranty is carried out by any dealer accredited by that manufacturer (e.g. a Fiat dealer). So two warranties (at least) apply to the product.

There are several areas of end-user confusion arising from this:

1. As Swift offers the habitation warranty, end-customers feel entitled to direct contact over problems they believe to be covered under it, even though the dealer will be doing the work. This is especially so, of course, if the end-customer lacks confidence in the dealer's response. Also, some problems are perceived by the end-customer as having originated in manufacture, design, or with a supplied component, and so not "caused" by the dealer.

2. There is much confusion over whether only the supplying dealer can undertake Swift warranty work or whether an end-customer (who may have moved location) can take the product to another dealer for the work to be done. I have detected confusion within Swift over this question (inconsistent answers) as well as the confusion I know exists among end-users.

3. It's pretty obvious that the interface between vehicle-side and habitation-side systems, especially on electrics will give rise to "whose responsibility is this?" questions and that's another source of demand for direct contact to Swift. Then there's aftermarket installs (alarms, SatTV etc.) with interfaces - best not go there!

4. There's at least some confusion about the warranty situation on major habitation components (cookers, fridges, microwaves, heaters) - how the Swift warranty interacts with the component manufacturer's warranty. If it's your warranty, then again folk will want to discuss this area with you.

I also understand that Swift does have a repair facility and process for situations in which a dealer fix proves impossible.

My own situation is complicated further by my dealer providing an insurance-based warranty effected through the AA - this is a stange mixture of vehicle-side and habitation with a recovery service thrown in - the habitation-side cover is very weak though with numerous exclusions. As an aside, this means I have no less than three breakdown-recovery services I can call on in the UK (2 pan-European, the AA one UK only) - my own RAC policy extended with C&CC Arrival, Fiat Camper Assist and the AA thing!!! 

I posted this in the forum rather than as a PM because I think it may be of wider interest; I hope you do not mind this - the comments are made in a constructive spirit. I view your active encouragement of end-user dialogue very positively.

With apologies for a long post,

Roger


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## colonel

Hi Roger,

The items you have outlined ought to be on the agenda for the User Group meeting that pixlepusher and others are attending.

I for one would welcome clarification on most of your points so hopefully Peter can respond as part of the group meeting and a report of some kind placed on MHF or at least available to Swift owners would be useful.

p.s. The Post wasn't that long ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzz :wink: :wink:


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## Pixelpusher

So far I've refrained from entering this debate. I have every sympathy with the original poster having been in a similar situation. Search for my previous posts for details.

The points Roger has made have all been raised before in my posts and I would hope for the opportunity to discuss them at the meeting with Swift next week. If there are no objections on Swifts part then I would hope to post the results of the meeting on this Forum.

Colin


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## roger-the-lodger

colonel said:


> Hi Roger,
> 
> The items you have outlined ought to be on the agenda for the User Group meeting that pixlepusher and others are attending.
> 
> I for one would welcome clarification on most of your points so hopefully Peter can respond as part of the group meeting and a report of some kind placed on MHF or at least available to Swift owners would be useful.
> 
> p.s. The Post wasn't that long ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzz :wink: :wink:


I very much hope they will be. I'm attending the meeting and will have a printed copy of that post (and probably some others) with me.

There are other issues I would like us to discuss including more effective use of web communication in customer service (communication that includes end-users and dealers), dealer accreditation, supply of documentation to dealers, simple-English warranty explanations (covering the complete scene), alert notices.

You can see that I could have made my post much longer but that really would have been a cure for insomnia! :wink:

The things that all these have in common is that they are absolutely practical (no BS!) and relatively cheap to implement (especially using the web). There is an excellent return on investment; hard times are no reason not to do them. In fact they're a good reason to do them.

Colin, thanks for your post too and I'll look forward to meeting you at Cottingham.

Roger


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## colonel

Hi Roger,

then with both you and Colin present I'm sure Peter won't have an easy time. :wink: :wink: 

I hope however that it will be a very productive and rewarding meeting nevertheless.

Maybe one or two other manufacturers can take note of Swift's desire to get involved with their customers at ground level and not remain aloof from the problems they have.

I look forward with interest to the report on the outcome of this meeting and add my thanks to those who are prepared to give up their own time in pursuing this.


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## SwiftGroup

*User Group*

We can debate all of these issues and others next week at the meeting.

Regards
Kath


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## Rapide561

*Warranty*

Somewhat off topic, but re the warranty and supplying dealer.

As far as I know, some dealers are happy to assist with warranty work. JohnsCross is one, Salop Leisure (from my own enquiries, another) and (again from my enquiries), Discover Leisure.

As an example I bought from my van from one place, and the closest dealer to my location is not the supplying agent. If I need any work done, I would probably nip back to Discover as they are fairly close by. If the warranty work was all OK, I would be likely to consider purchasing from them in the future. Surely it is "speculating to accumulate etc"

Apologies for wandering off topic a bit.

Russell


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## Briarose

*Re: Warranty*



Rapide561 said:


> Somewhat off topic, but re the warranty and supplying dealer.
> 
> As far as I know, some dealers are happy to assist with warranty work. JohnsCross is one, Salop Leisure (from my own enquiries, another) and (again from my enquiries), Discover Leisure.
> 
> As an example I bought from my van from one place, and the closest dealer to my location is not the supplying agent. If I need any work done, I would probably nip back to Discover as they are fairly close by. If the warranty work was all OK, I would be likely to consider purchasing from them in the future. Surely it is "speculating to accumulate etc"
> 
> Apologies for wandering off topic a bit.
> 
> Russell


 I quite agree Russell we contacted a certain dealer in Louth Lincs to see if they could help us, they just didn't want to know as we hadn't purchased our MH from them..................in turn now I wouldn't consider buying from them as they were so un helpful.


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## roger-the-lodger

colonel said:


> Hi Roger,
> 
> then with both you and Colin present I'm sure Peter won't have an easy time. :wink: :wink:
> 
> I hope however that it will be a very productive and rewarding meeting nevertheless...


I hope it will be productive and rewarding too and I expect it to be.

As for easy times, I doubt that anyone going to the meeting is looking for one of those. My most important hope is that we can agree and set some specific actions that will improve customer service further from its present position of high motivation on Swift's part.

As Kath says in her reply, we will get the issues out on the table, but I know she will agree that this must be more than a discussion. The actions are vital. I am not saying that in the sense of someone demanding action; I have in mind actions benefitting Swift and the end users of their products, actions that are affordable and relatively simple. I don't know how the outcomes will be fed back, but I'm sure we'll find a way.

Roger


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## Pixelpusher

Since the User Group meeting is now being discussed I like to add that in my opinion it would be counter productive to give Swift a hard time despite the hard times that I and others have had. This could disrupt the meeting and be counter productive.

I think our issues and concerns need to be stated rationally. I do think though that there needs to be an understanding from Swift that much of the input that some of us will be providing is based upon poor product and service in the past. Unfortunately this cannot be undone. Swift may emerge from this experience with a better business model for the future but that will be too late for many of us.

I for one have no intention of buying another MH until this one drops apart.  (Hopefully a good long time). So future improvements regarding suitability, reliability and warranties don't have much benefit to me.

I'm participating in this meeting because Swift have caused me to give them a hard time in the past and I think its only fair to meet with them to have a better opportunity to express first hand my opinions rather than hide behind a forum. Frankly I expect Swift to benefit from this meeting but I'm not convinced there will be much benefit to current owners.

Colin


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## roger-the-lodger

Pixelpusher said:


> Since the User Group meeting is now being discussed I like to add that in my opinion it would be counter productive to give Swift a hard time despite the hard times that I and others have had. This could disrupt the meeting and be counter productive.
> ....Colin


Colin, I strongly agree with this.

I've stated my approach to the meeting and how I personally prioritise the objectives. Just to be clear, by saying that no-one should expect an easy time, I mean that some hard work is needed all round, not that we should give Swift a hard time.

And I agree that Swift will and should be a beneficiary in the outcome; so should future customers. Any past shortcomings are a fact of life of course; as you rightly say action taken now will benefit future customers and perhaps some of those who have bought more recently. But I'm happy to help in that way.

Looking forward to seeing you next week,

Roger


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## Zebedee

Hi Roger

Nowt to do with me, and you have probably thought of this, but might it be productive to give Swift prior warning of your key questions and suggestions?

That would allow them time for consultation so they could (hopefully) offer a considered response at the meeting . . . rather than having to say, _"OK. We'll discuss it and let you know."_

Just a thought.

Dave


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## Telbell

Now- I know I go off topic.....but how about you guys arranging your meetings through the Chat Room or a "Special Thead"....or even talk to each other on the phone or PM?

Cos I may want to come on this thread thinking in my naivety it's still all about "Muriel and Pete" :wink: :lol:


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## colonel

Guys,


My comment about Peter not having an easy time was not meant to imply that you would be unreasonable and dogmatic in your discussions. I'm certain that it will be a constructive and usefull meeting for both Swift and the representatives of the Users.

I also agree that the emphasis should be on future practices and plans rather than a slanging match based on who has had what problems in the past. It seems to me that Swift have a thorough recognition of the current and past faults and have made superb attempts to remedy these.

Hopefully subjects like dealer management and production fault monitoring and correction would be more fruitful.

Best of luck to all concerned.


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## Pixelpusher

Back to the OP....

Muriel and Pete.....

You will see that you are not alone in your problems or concerns. That doesn't help though. What you will notice is that Swift have the courage to participate here and will hopefully make improvements that you, me and others can benefit from.

Although my main focus on this forum is primarly around Fiat/Swift product, I do however notice a lack of any other manufacturer participating on this forum and hopefully listening and taking note to the extent that Swift does.

In the past I've been asked would I buy another Swift product. To be honest thats not easy to answer right now. Based on past experiences I'd say they were no worse or better than any other manufacturer. I think the whole industry needs bringing upto the 21st Century both in design and service - thats just my opinion; ( and yes its easy to be an art critic and not know one end of a brush from another  ). However, there does seem a comittment on their part to improve upon their past records. Only time will tell. 

As an aside my own vehicle goes into the dealers tomorrow to fix a long list of issues which I've had to push Swift hard to get involved with. Crunch time - and just before the User Group meeting too!!

Colin


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