# Flair 8000i CFB and Concorde Charisma Gearbox & power



## Robocopnz (Mar 24, 2011)

Flair 8000i CFB and Concorde Charisma – I am about to purchase a new motorhome, the choice I am faced with is a new 2011 Flair 8000i or a new 2010 Concorde Charisma 890G. Both are powered by the Iveco Daily Chassis 65C18 with the Agile automated manual gearbox. 
I have read a few posts on various forums which suggest the Agile gearbox is not very good – when it gets hot it sometimes is unable to pull up a steep hill and also has problems pulling off from a dead stop on a hill. Some people have said this problem has caused their clutches to slip badly resulting in them having to replace the clutch. 
The posts I read seemed to be mostly from 2007/2008. Does anyone know if ZF/Agile have resolved this issue and if the later models are not having the same problems?
I am in New Zealand – the other question I have is whether this Iveco motor (177HP) is powerful enough for these two vehicles which are both pretty heavy. My previous motorhome was a Burstner Elegance 821 with Fiat’s equivalent 175HP motor, but its on road weight was under 4,500kgs, whereas the Flair & Concorde will be just over 1,000 kgs heavier. We have some pretty steep hills, especially on the South Island. Has anyone had experience of driving either of the above models in Europe where there are mountain passes similar to NZ?
I would really appreciate any feedback on the two model motorhomes.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hello and welcome
You lucky devil, what a dilemma :roll: 

2 beautiful motorhomes, if we win the lottery it will be a new Charisma.

I have a read a few times, also on here that there has been a few troubles with the agile gearbox not being upto the job, sorry can't be more specific than that, worth joining and doing a search.

Can't you order with a manual if you are concerned, its a shame they stopped using the merc.

Paul.


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## Wiggy (May 22, 2005)

Hi Robocop
I own a Carthago Chic also a German built van with a very similar quality to the 2 motorhomes you are looking at its based on an Iveco chassis 50C18 which is 5.2 tonnes and with the 3L engine and Agile gearbox.
Its a late 2008 build van and we have driven so far 35,000 trouble free miles Iveco updated the software for the gearbox that I believe has resolved any problems - our gearbox has never missed a beat its so relaxing to drive changing up and down as required, the 3L engine is very powerful and will easily cruise at 70 plus mph although you pay a little for that speed in fuel consumption, on hills it just flies up them relatively (if you can do that in a 5 tonne plus truck) easily.
We have toured Europe quite extensively especially the mountains in Germany and France and the short and steep hills of Belgium all with no problems from the gearbox or engine
When cruising on european motorways I travel at 60 mph and will return 23 mpg
i hope my info is of help - when you get your new van I think we should discuss an exchange for a month then you can visit the UK & Europe borrowing our van and perhaps we can visit new Zealand as its the no 1 place we wish to tour for a month in a motorhome - perhaps borrowing your van
Wiggy


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

We have a Charisma but on the Merc 616 chassis which is super smooth. We did test drive the Flair 8000i with the agile gearbox and in the end ordered the manual gearbox. Iveco say that the early problems , especially pulling away up hill with a tow car behind are of the past, but I would still order a manual.
We did actually order the Flair with many special features but Hymer buggered us about so much we cancelled and bought the Concorde. No regrets.

C.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Manualauto*

Hello,

Had problems with a robotised gearbox myself.

I would avoid them where possible in the future.

We have a Manual Mercedes Sprinter Motorhome and a true Auto Sprinter Window Van.

There have been some postings on here re the new Fiat 3.0 robotised auto problems too.

Hope whatever you choose, it works well for you.

TM


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## Irishman (Nov 19, 2010)

Have the Chrisma 840F and done about 40000 km since new withouth any gearbox problems. Had to have all the engine , body and gearbox software upgraded after buying and since then all has been well. Concorde are a superb motorhome and service from Concorde is first class. The gear change on the agile is much better with the latest version of the software which I had installed about a year ago. Fuel consumption is quite good last trip of 200 km on quiet motorway retuned 13 litres per 100 km good for a 6 ton motorhome.


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## Mickkir (Apr 27, 2012)

*Iveco 65c18 Gearbox And Clutch Problems*

Hi we have a 2009 Flair 7000i on a Iveco 65C18 chassis. In December 2011, just a couple of months outside the 24 month warranty period.
The Clutch went completely making it impossible to move the vehicle, the whole episode was a nightmare which I will not harp on.
The point is the vehicle had only done 18,000 km. it cost me 3000€ to get it fixed and neither N+B or Iveco want to know.
I am a retire engineer who spent 40 years running a bearing manufacturing company. They maintain it was my driving, I was in the alps in France, what they meant was don't drive on hilly roads as their design is not up to it! I have now found many similar examples of such failures, I am getting the clutch assemble examined to make sure the materials are of the right spec. I will post an update in due course.

My advice is be careful in New Zealand, as you do have a few hills too!!


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