# cc, PITA



## rotorywing (Jul 19, 2010)

Yesterday I had to cancel a 3 night booking at Baltic Wharf due to a family crisis, Sis-in-law is dangerously ill. The booking was for 17/18/19th Dec so it was cancelled at the last minute.

I then receive an email from booking dept stating :- 

This late cancellation is in breach of The Club's policies stated 
in our booking terms and conditions. You will be contacted by The Club if there is more than one occasion of a late cancellation this year, however if you book another of our Club sites within 24 hours and within the same date range of this late cancellation, it will not be counted as a breach.

If I could have gone I would have...............barstewards.

Martin
Rant complete, where's my gun


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think I would be very tempted to send them a reply;

_Dear Sir or Madam,

thank you for your e-mail about my cancellation of the pitch at Baltic Wharf.

I can assure you that if my wife's sister is suddenly and dangerously ill again and this causes disruption of our well established plans we will of course ask her to delay being taken to hospital until the booking has been completed.........

Sadly, sudden illness is, by it's very nature sudden and I am positive that you will appreciate that we have no control over such events. I do hope that your family never suffers such an event if you also have booked a Caravan Club pitch and have to cancel it so that your partner can spend the time with their dangerously ill closest relative.

*Perhaps, the Caravan Club might consider it sensible to seek out WHY the cancellation was made rather than simply firing such a broadside at a member for the first time they have ever been compelled to make such a cancellation at late notice.*

Please reply to this e-mail and at least reassure me that you are a human being and not a simple, un-minded computer with no human emotions at all, since at present I am struggling to believe this.

May I take this opportunity to wish you and all of your colleagues a healthy Christmas so that you do not also fall foul of the Caravan Club's unthinking response to such occurrences._

It will be interesting to see then if you get any response.......

Feel free to ignore/use/modify/delete my suggestion as you think fit....

Dave


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Had the same from CC when our pet was taken ill and had to be 'put down'. I, too, thought it a bit insensitive so I 'phone HQ and got an apology and the the 'black mark' removed!!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rotorywing said:


> Yesterday I had to cancel a 3 night booking at Baltic Wharf due to a family crisis, Sis-in-law is dangerously ill. The booking was for 17/18/19th Dec so it was cancelled at the last minute.
> 
> I then receive an email from booking dept stating :-
> 
> ...


Martin

Sympathies for S-in-Law and wishing a good recovery.

The only question in my mind is did you give the CC the reason (maybe not possible on internet)?

If they knew the reason then their response is

Inhumane, unacceptable, 'Hitleresque', ...[ I could go on]

To paraphrase Groucho Marx:- 'Who would want to join a 'Club" who had employees like that'

If they come back and blame the computer ask for the name of the person who instructed the computer input to be so inflexible.

I am as angry as you - on your behalf.

Geoff

P.S Isn't the CC the club that allows members to make multiple bookings for the same days and then cancel one of them?

It would be interesting to know how many pitches were vacant for those 3 nights


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## rotorywing (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm going to scribe a mailie to the CC along the lines of Dave's letter [Thank you dave]. I shall wait till tomorrow due to the Mrs being stressed out which is getting me stressed........... we had been looking forward to the trip as a xmas break. It will be interesting, I shall post their response

Martin


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## rotorywing (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi Geoff

There is an option to select the reason for cancellation, Illness/ bereavement/ no longer required etc. I entered Illness as she is at the moment critical and not expected to leave the hospital. Bereavemnt seemed to be jumping the gun !!. I shall demand an explanation from the 'club' and if they offer to remove the 'black mark'.....stand by for ballistics

Martin

Thank you


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

I had exactly the same thing! I even called them and offered to pay for the pitch and guess what there is no mechanism to accommodate this

I would also point out that I lost pitches at Stratford and Tudors last season all because of serious illness (87) and they both accepted my payment and all goodwill intact between us all.

I was offered a mild ish lecture about breaking the rules and I pointed out exactly I was only 1hr and 40mins over

I do wish my mother in law would be very ill inline with Caravan Club policy, it would make all the difference!

The lady said I have noted your special circumstances and you should be OK, how relieved was I !!!!

Stick their rule's where the sun doesn't shine, it was my first time in 9 years and I offered to pay

Get a GRIP CC


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## Glen432 (May 9, 2005)

Hi rotorywing

Sorry to hear about your sister in law but you will find that what you recieved was computer generated response when you pressed the cancellation button. It is unfortunate but if you contact EGH and speak to a human they will sort any problems out for you. I do work for the CC as a warden and i think the club do have their cancellation policy about right you may not agree but unfortunately there are some unscrupless people about who would use someones death as an excuse to get away with cancellling a booking early. I have had many phone conversations with people cancelling knowing they are lying but how to remedy that and get an happy medium is beyond me.

Regards
Phil


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## rotorywing (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks Phil

I realise that the answer is automated, simple solution would be a 'additional information' box [optional]. then when you are ill you could inform them that you've broken your leg !!. I do understand that people lie, probably the ones that multibook. We had tried for months to get a booking at Baltic Wharf around December............so I'm peeved off for several reasons

Martin


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Probably an automated letter which nobody checks before despatch. Whilst some businesses think such automated letters are a good idea - such as the utility companies - I don't think they are for Clubs. In my experience as an Operations Manager, I would expect the CC's approach will reduce the number of cancellations and 'no-shows' whilst alienating a number of decent members.

The CC is under great pressure from members on numerous issues. It seems to me, as a member, that the response is usually to introduce a new rule and expect the staff to religiously enforce it. It's trying to be fair to everyone and in doing so, upsets many. 

I've been a contented member of the CC for 20 years. However, if they started bashing me with with their rules, I'd just walk away.

Best wishes to your sister in law.


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

I have tried many times to get the CC to sort this inadequate service out. Yes by all means send out such a threatening and abusive message to someone who abuses the system, and they are out there. However, when people cancel a booking for a good reason, they need to think of their response.

An example of this stupidity was last winter, We were booked to go to Melrose in the Scottish borders. However, the whole area was flooded and the Scottish police told (not advised) motorist not to travel to the area. We cancelled our booking and received this abusive message. When I contacted the CC I said that the wardens at Melrose should have told them the situation and there would probably be cancellations. Reply 'Oh we had not thought of that'.

They need to sort out their automatic message system to respond to individual circumstances. Enough of the rant.

I do hope your relative gets better soon.


Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Whoa there folks !!! I think a little balance is required here.

the CC is NOT a club anymore, it ceased to be one a long time ago. It is now a multi million pound business.

They have many thousands of pitches, some of them are on VERY popular sites (such as Baltic Wharf) 

They have a clear published policy in respect of cancellations at short notice.

The response to a late cancellation is without doubt, computer generated without any human input. That response re-iterates the cancellation policy and details what actions the club are taking in response. I dont have a problem with that as I am sure a large proportion of cancellations are of the "I cant be bothered to go because its cold/raining/forecast is rotten, the event I was going to has been withdrawn etc. 

SOME have genuine and unfortuneate reasons to cancel at the last minute (as in this case) But "The system" doesnt KNOW that! so a response is sent which fits the majority.

I would expect the club to alter its stance a little once they have the full facts (and some form of proof as it would be too easy to lie)

The alternaitive is to just accept late cancellations and do nothing, which is what happened in the past!

It is NOT possible to book two sites for the same dates under one membership number (which used to be the case) that then stops anyone multiple booking and deciding at the last minute which one has the better weather and canceling the other!!

Rather than write the club a narky letter I would simply write explaining the exact circumstances of the cancelation being necessary and ask that any "Black mark" against your name is removed, which, given the circumstances, I am sure it will be.

To quote the chap off the telly "Calm down Dear!!"


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

I can really emphathise here but it is one the rules of membership so should come as no surprise. It might not be welcome by those who don't abuse the system, but it was put in place to stop abuse and loss of revenue - which all members would pay for in the long run. It is setup to allow a small number of cancellations so don't get steamed up, just appreciate they're trying to keep the costs down for all members.


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## Glen432 (May 9, 2005)

Have to agree with Mr Plodd it is a fit all cancellation policy and imho one of the best rule changes the CC have introduced in the last couple of years, the decline in last minute cancellation is quite something and it certainly makes life easier for us and the members freeing pitches for the weekend by Tuesday lunch time. It is a no valid excuse policy as a starting point and this seems to upset people who cancel for the first and only time but you are allowed three life's (black marks) in any rolling year and most genuine people only cancel once in a lifetime anyway, this fit all policy is aimed at people who continually cancel. Like i said in my previous post those unscrupless people would soon find out what valid reason the genuine were using and wouldn't think twice of copying them. Give this policy time to work because we can see huge benefits already and its only 18 months old. 
Also in an earlier post someone mentioned block booking if by this you mean a member is booking more then one pitch on any given day it doesn't happen anymore under this new system 

Phil


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

I think that the CC could probably help themselves a little by just adding another paragraph to the auto generated email, along the lines of.......

If this cancellation is due to extenuating circumstances then please contact our bookings department to discuss the matter".


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

I had to cancel this time last year because the area was flooded, the main bridge to the area was closed. I cancelled online 2 days before and was surprised to get the automated reply mentioned by the OP. At first i was annoyed but then i thought i'm not likely to do it again so fair enough. They have the rule for a reason, what someone thinks is a valid reason might not get the same response from someone else.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I somehow doubt that many members would not support the idea of trying to find out WHY a late cancellation has been made - such a request from the CC would be met with responses from those forced to cancel for a justifiable reason and of course, they are very unlikely to feature in such a cancellation again within months, if ever.....

The e-mail that has been received by a member, and reported here, and the comments that similar possibly automated mails have been received by others, is to me a dereliction of such a request for clarification; it does not seek to find out if there are justifiable reasons and makes no attempt at establishing such reasons. It could well result in e-mails being sent e.g. to the relatives of a suddenly deceased member .........

It is not the e-mail itself but it's style which needs relooking at - and even then I would suggest that such a mail should be sent on a second or subsequent late cancellation, not the first.

*"Guilty and no chance of being proved innocent as we are not interested in you being innocent"* seems to be the adopted policy here - and of course it is supposed to be a club.........

Such a response from a large e.g. energy company would be greeted with a massive adverse publicity campaign in the media........

Dave


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

I have to say that I think the CC is in the wrong here.
You should never use automatically generated letters to enforce the rules or policies. That is basic "good business 101".
The only occasion for using automated mail is to impart good news or to gather information. No other reasons are acceptable and a company the size of the CC should know this!

A letter which says "you appear to have cancelled - why please?" would be acceptable and meet the same objectives...

Another basic rule of good business is never to tell a customer what your company policies are. Policies are an internal only matter. I, as a member of the CC have no interest whatsoever in their policies. When they have terms and conditions, they can tell me about them.

Bad business practice is always annoying, isn't it?

Patrick


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Patrick_Phillips said:


> I have to say that I think the CC is in the wrong here.
> You should never use automatically generated letters to enforce the rules or policies. That is basic "good business 101".
> The only occasion for using automated mail is to impart good news or to gather information. No other reasons are acceptable and a company the size of the CC should know this!
> 
> ...


Patrick

A very wise post, particularly distinguishing between policies and T&C.

The CC seem to have fallen into the void of not knowing whether they are a 'Club' for Members or a 'Club trying to maximise the commercial benefits of scale' - of course to the 'benefit of members' why wouldn't we? etc.

The AA and RAC just sold out - members pcketed the cash and the organisations are clearly commercial now.

The only organisation with which I have had experience of combining satisfaction for the members with producing good income from the non-members is the National Trust.

They RNLI do a very good job for their members but there is no 'commercial' side.

Geoff


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> They RNLI do a very good job for their members but there is no 'commercial' side.
> 
> Geoff


Well they do have shops.............. :wink:

http://www.rnlishop.org.uk/


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Stanner said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > They RNLI do a very good job for their members but there is no 'commercial' side.
> ...


Stanner

That is true, but they are not charging their members - they are taking income from mostly non-members, and a few members.

National Trust do not charge Members only non-members.

I suppose RNLI's RIBs on the Thames are run under some sort of contract, but that is minor in the scheme of their whole UK operation.

Geoff


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

I think that the genuine cancellations are being caught up in the CC policy of trying to stamp out abuse of the booking system.

This is of their own making as the present ludicrous pre booking system where there is a scramble on a day in December to book for the following year is not good enough.

Some members do abuse the booking system and finish up cancelling at the last minute if the weather is bad,the CC have,to their credit,tried to stamp this out with sanctions against persistent offenders,the problem is,as in the case of the OP,genuine cancellations are being caught up in the net.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I really do not know why people get so upset about this email even in genuine circumstances. It is only an email letter not a punishment in any form whatsoever. I would just shrug it off and get on with my life because it is unlikely that the same thing would happen again in the same year once let alone twice and you do need three strikes before any action is taken.

That leads me on to perhaps no email or warning should be sent out at all on the first occasion but only on the second and of course on the third occasion expect the worst.

The Club has said it will reveiw the effects of the cancellation rules on the booking system in March after the effects over two years have been studied. I think they have had to do this over two years because 2012 being very wet was not an average year. My concern is that all the new rules have done is make members cancel before the 72 hour deadline and overall cancellations have not decrease, in fact they may well have increased.

peedee


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## rotorywing (Jul 19, 2010)

*cc, PITA.........CC's reply*

Received this afternoon from the Caravan Club - Membership Compliance Supervisor ,

"Thank you for your email.

Firstly thank you for taking the time to inform us of your personal circumstances. We appreciate that giving advance notice of a cancellation may at times be difficult due to family illness. I am sorry to hear of your sad news.
I can confirm we have added the relevant notes onto the membership record for you stating the reason for late cancellation of your UK sites booking. If there were three instances of late cancellations within the calendar year, we would review the circumstances around each cancellation using any notes held on the system, and would contact you if further information was required. Situations such as this would always be considered on a case by case basis, and no action would be taken without first reviewing the late cancellation history and the members individual circumstances.

Please be assured that The Club has every desire to be sympathetic where a member is doing everything reasonably possible to avoid late cancellations and we will not be penalising our valued members like yourself, for genuine cancellation reasons.

Here at the Club we have decided to only review cancellations if and when three have accumulated within a calendar year. We would like to be able to review all late cancellation reasons before sending any letter/emails to members. Unfortunately due to the some 46000 late cancellations made last year I am sure you'll understand this is not feasible for the Club. As a Club we have to be fair to all members when communicating the policy. The communication you received is an automatic response that goes out to any member who has made a late cancellation, unfortunately it does have to be firmly worded for it to have an impact on the members who persistently abuse the rules. I would like to take this opportunity to personally apologize for any upset it may have caused. It is by no means the Clubs intention to upset any of our members. We are merely trying to change the behaviors of a minority group of members who ruin it for everyone else by cancelling lots of bookings with little notice or reason.

I do hope this helps alleviate your concerns, If you require any further assistance or clarification please do not hesitate in letting myself know by replying to this email or calling me direct "

I think it is time they upgraded their system if 46000 people are getting the initial email !!!

Martin


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

and if 46,000 are receiving such an e-mail annually it is obviously NOT an effective way of dealing with the problem..........


I suspect that the vast majority of recipients will simply have filed it under "R" for Rubbish and gone no further and not thought WHY have they sent such a snotty e-mail?

To me, the style of the e-mail is counter-productive; a polite enquiry for the for the first such occurrence, a slightly stronger second time and then a strongly worded third such mailing would be a more appropriate way of approaching the members - who of course, ultimately pay their salaries and expenses.....

Dave


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

A CRM (customer relationship management) requires an extraordinary understanding of client and organisational activities, needs and actions. Obviously the level of understanding of the writer of this letter was one-dimensional. Pity the writer of the apology was not consulted and a multi-purpose reply to suit multiple circumstances formulated at the outset. Ignorance and incompetence rule the day!


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