# Panel Vans in Winter and Thoughts?



## quickgetaway (Jun 13, 2006)

Hi All,


time is coming to possibly change the van again. This time I am thinking of a panel van conversion, mainly for the benefit of the size when parking and touring. 

Can any of you seasoned motorhomers out there with Panel Van conversions give me an idea of how they bear up to a UK winter. I tour all year so I understand about silver screens and water tanks, my question is more to do with general levels of insulation and draft proofing. I will be looking at an 'older' van say 4 or 5 years old - preferably with a diesel heater.

It will be used with a twin bed layout, so someone will be sleeping up against the side sliding door. In general do they have adequate insulation to prevent cold spots in this area and are they generally draft free (assuming the seals are in good condition?)

My preference would be for a Transit conversion (A/S Duetto or Devon Aztec) after that an A/S Symphony/Symbol. 

How do people find 'Sevel' conversions (Tribute/IH/NuVenture etc) these on the hightop conversions rather than with the added roof like the A/S. Inside they look a little dark to me or is that cause I am looking in a dealers site which is little more than a car park?

Any advice or experience is greatly appreciated


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Certainly the side door could be a problem indeed the metal work near the rear door could also produce a cold spot or two, one other thing if fitted with original windows the glass could also be a problem. Our bench seat faces out the side door so we don't worry about it being dull inside rather the opposite getting sufficient ventilation whilst keeping the early morning light out is our problem!


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I've only had my first van (1999 Ducatto based Bessacarr E350) for a few weeks so can't comment on what it's like in winter, but it has been pretty dull, cold, wet and windy at times. It has plenty of windows so seems pretty light inside. I've noticed some places round the side and rear doors where you can see daylight, so these will be a source of draughts. I don't know if they can be cured by adjustment or new seals and if it's common on these vans. I think some extra insulation could be added to the rear doors as I rarely open them, but am not sure what needs to be done to the side door.


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
We run an autosleeper Symbol 2001 pre facelift (the van ,not me). Cold spots are- Ventilation slots in front doors, easily taped up. side,front,and rear original single glazed windows, use silver screens. fridge vents, use vent covers. All plastic windows and vents have a pull over blind but you could add insulation pads on vents if required. Our gas blown air heater is very effective and soon warms the van but the thermostat has a large "dwell" which means it gets quite cold before it comes back on. The loo is perishing, possibly ex army long johns with flaps could be the only answer,
Regards,
Chris V


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

No problem with an Autosleeper Duetto (Transit conversion) Slept in the snow and frost in comfort even with the diesil heating off as long as you use decent sleeping bags. Diesil heater a bit noisy!!!!!. No draught whatsoever from side door but beware of draughty Fiat based vans which seem to suffer unduly from this side door area.


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

Although our German Sprinter van conversion is new to us and we haven't overwintered in it yet it is certified by the German authorities for winter use. It has underfloor storage that can accomodate skis and many other things. As the tanks are also in the same space this is heated. So you could look for a German van certified for winter use rather than relying on bunging up the draughty gaps.


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## quickgetaway (Jun 13, 2006)

Thank for your replies and advice. I was already leaning towards an Autosleeper Duetto and this advice will give me more of an idea what to look out for.

The HRZ vans are very impressive (I have had a look at their web site) just goes to show how the German converters take design and build a step or two further then the UK. Once again the German practical approach to design out weighs the UK promotion of 'lifestyle and cosmetic luxury'. However I fear that these vans for me will be more 'aspirational' rather than affordable.


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## CaGreg (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi,

We have an Autosleepers Topaz on VW Transporter. We have been away all through last winter in it and have never been cold. we only used the heating a few times and needed it on for about twenty mins only. The van heats up very quickly. In fact sometimes just boiling a kettle on the gas stove is enough to heat it up. The sliding door does not have cold spots but there is one place on the other side where the sink and fridge are that has a small amount of (cold) ventiliation sometimes and this is where the outside vents are but not enough to cause any problems. 

The Autosleepers are very well finished with regards to thick insulation and linings on the walls etc. Ours is a 2001 model.

Hope this helps

Catherine


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## 88797 (May 9, 2005)

Our VW Autosleepers Trident, same as the Topaz but without the loo, is fine too, one or two little drafts in a gale but we use her all year round in snow, frost etc. The blown air heating works a treat and as CaGreg says putting the kettle on or cooking soon warms you up. I think you can take comfart a bit too far. After all we are camping arent we?


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi quickgetaway,I don't think you are going to get the insulation of your a class but I would leave any van that has left the bare metal visible on doors etc, as if they cannot cover / insulate this what else have they not done?I was suprised at how many leave the back doors uncladed! I don,t have this problem in my conversion as it is all at least 50 mm styrofoam Ali and ply inc roof and floor which has extra ply, for good measure, all under van has 30 mm foam type insulation from engine to rear axle.
terry


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## oldenstar (Nov 9, 2006)

> . I think you can take comfart a bit too far.


That should certainly keep you warm :wink:


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Our Horizons Innovation is Transit based and we've had no trouble at all with drafts round doors etc and like some others I've noticed that boiling a kettle soon adds a lot of heat when you're buttoned up tight.
Unlike our brother design the Cavarno we've got original Ford single glazing rather than caravan type double glazing. IMHO the single glazing looks better from the outside but the double glazing looks better from inside. We have no exposed metal internally so we don't get condensation from there but we do from the single glass if we sleep in the van overnight.
We tend not to use the van for camping during the winter but I use it (drained down) as my daily transport all year and have no interior condensation probs, just like a normal car.


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Our Horizons Innovation is Transit based and we've had no trouble at all with drafts round doors etc and like some others I've noticed that boiling a kettle soon adds a lot of heat when you're buttoned up tight.
> Unlike our brother design the Cavarno we've got original Ford single glazing rather than caravan type double glazing. IMHO the single glazing looks better from the outside but the double glazing looks better from inside. We have no exposed metal internally so we don't get condensation from there but we do from the single glass if we sleep in the van overnight.
> We tend not to use the van for camping during the winter but I use it (drained down) as my daily transport all year and have no interior condensation probs, just like a normal car.


We have the cavarno 2 - so similar to the van mentioned above.

We use it all year.

External silverscreens are great.

Our van is well insulated but the cab area has more heatloss.

We've wild-camped when its icy with no heating on at all (stealth mode!) - and with a quilt its been fine. They neat up quickly too.

With a small elec heater teh van is snug as a sauna!!

The only time we struggled was a very cold, very windy night in a very exposed location. No hookup - so the gas heater was on. Wwe didn't freeze but it was hardly snug.

We've never had tanks/loo freeze even though we could not refill water as the sites taps were frozen!!!!


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Hi Ryan,
I've always worried that the external tanks will freeze, not so much at night but whilst driving in frosty weather. Being exposed to the slipstream suggests to me that the water in their can get mighty cold.
In fact I forgot to drain down the actual boiler this winter and in Feb. I thought I'd cracked the boiler jacket with ice. Turned out the water I felt under around the boiler under the o/s/r seat was from another loosened jubilee clip. I was one relieved bunny.
We enjoyed your site by the way. Why no Cavarno in India!!!


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Hi Ryan,
> I've always worried that the external tanks will freeze, not so much at night but whilst driving in frosty weather. Being exposed to the slipstream suggests to me that the water in their can get mighty cold.
> In fact I forgot to drain down the actual boiler this winter and in Feb. I thought I'd cracked the boiler jacket with ice. Turned out the water I felt under around the boiler under the o/s/r seat was from another loosened jubilee clip. I was one relieved bunny.
> We enjoyed your site by the way. Why no Cavarno in India!!!


lol!
Hmmm. Not sure how you linked the website with this account. Worrying how the internet works. We had some stranger looking at one of our previous sites and seeing a photo with someone they knew in it! Weird and small world.
India was business... Not sure I'd risk it there - driving on a road you'd end up with 32 passengers on the roof!


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Hi Ryan,
> I've always worried that the external tanks will freeze, not so much at night but whilst driving in frosty weather. Being exposed to the slipstream suggests to me that the water in their can get mighty cold.
> In fact I forgot to drain down the actual boiler this winter and in Feb. I thought I'd cracked the boiler jacket with ice. Turned out the water I felt under around the boiler under the o/s/r seat was from another loosened jubilee clip. I was one relieved bunny.
> We enjoyed your site by the way. Why no Cavarno in India!!!


CAK tanks sell a water tank heater (de frost element ) and you can also buy heat tape to warm up any exposed pipework. Note that wind chill only applies to bodies where evaporation can take place (like us) not to the dry outside of tanks, so slipstream should not be an extra problem.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi just another thought the water is moving around whilst driving! thus preventing freezing in all but extream circumstances.Fish tank heaters can be used
terry


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

'Note that wind chill only applies to bodies where evaporation can take place (like us) not to the dry outside of tanks, so slipstream should not be an extra problem.'

Well I never knew that - I should've concentrated harder 40 years ago during physics lessons!


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

2005, 2006 Tribute may be worth looking at in that price range no teething problems and I used mine in January no problems.


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## kenp (Sep 8, 2006)

Does anyone have practical experience of insulating their panel van conversion? 

30 years ago I poured a two pack foam into the walls of a caravan with limited success and 15 years ago I insulated my VW A/S using fibreglass insulation put into dustbin sacks and placed behind all the wall panels I could remove. 

You can now buy expanding foam from DIY stores and builders merchants that may be useful for insulating the bare metal behind wall trim as is needed in the Trigano rear doors.

What have you used successfully.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi be carefull with foam if you put in too much it will buckle your panels!!! will get back when more time terry


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi foam is good but buy a gun you can control it better
fiberglass needs fastening in place to stop it falling
polistriene squeeks
they sell insulation about half in thick that has same insulation as 4 ins rockwool in b&q-wicks etc a bit like internal screen material,this is great but also needs fastening
terry


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