# Weight - is a diet on the cards ?



## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

OK, I have been reading lots of posts on weight issues and being overloaded and am without having had the time to visit a weighbridge am concerned about how much i can legally carry !

I was 'told' by two different sales people that the difference between the 'average' and 'max' weight was my payload.

hence my plate showing 3500 and 5000 lead me to beleive that i had 1500kg of load ability.

i have a 52 plate EuraMobil 690HB

the garage is 'loaded' with toys in the form of my numerous kitesurfing and mountain boarding boards and equipment.

the ability to carry 4 passengers, well 3 plus me would see an average weight of 70-90 kg per person being added.

assume a 20+kg 'holiday flight' baggage allowance per person and we are looking at a minimum of 450 kg load.

how am i supposed to work out what is my legal loading capacity ?

I appreciate there are many previous posts on this subject, but does anyone have any specific info on my Eura Mobil 690 HB model ?

Many thanks in anticipation
Mark


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Sorry Loxley but if you want to get it right then find time to get to a weighbridge and get your two weights (total vehicle and single axle) - once you've got those the rest is just arithmetic.
Don't guess and don't use averages - overloaded vehicles can kill.


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## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

well i will be getting to a weighbridge this weekend. i am presuming that i can find one open on a saturday.

my initial concern is to ascertaining the weight allowance i can have.

after i have 'weighed' the front and back axle and the 'whole body' then what number am i comparing against to find my load allowance.

also, on the continent how are the tolls charged ?

if my vehicle is plated at 3500 kg which category of toll does it come under.

i know its a german built vehicle albeit in uk right hand drive but what else do i need to find out and how ?

thanks


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## Saphire (May 1, 2005)

Loxley, the two figures quoted, the first figure the 3500 kg is the total weight of the vehicle with yourselves and all your bits and pieces. If you go over the 3500kg you would be breaking the law, your insurance would be invalid in the case of an accident. Although I don't know the exact figure, you will be fined by the courts fairly harshly. The second figure on your vin plate is your gross train weight which is the amount your vehicle plus a towed unit can be. This is all to do with the towing vehicle's braking ability. On a ministry of transport weighbridge being run by the police they will weigh the two units seperately if you where towing, however from my memory your vehicle has a range somewhere between 250kg and 500kg payload, Hope this helps and you get a good readout at the weighbridge although I think you are going to be surprised.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

On your VIN plate you will see a figure of 3500 which, as Saphire explained, is the MAXIMUM your vehicle, and everything in it, can weigh.
Then there will be a number (around 2300) which is your rear axle MAXIMUM and another number (around 1550) which is your front axle MAXIMUM.
Take your Total Vehicle Weight (from the weighbridge) away from the 3500 will tell you how much payload you have left but this payload must be within the two maximum axle weights.

I bet you'll be surprised how little payload you have.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weight*

Hi

The weigh bridge at West Yorkshire Trading Standards is open 24/7/365. It is just of the A650 Wakefield Road, M62, J27.

Alternatively, Keetons at Sheffield have a weighbridge. It is a motorhome storage site too.

They are just off the Parkway, near the Go Karting place

Russell


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## 89539 (May 27, 2005)

Hi Mark,

We have a Eura Mobil Integra 700KB (which is 3850kg and 5200kg) and I think you may be surprised. As has been stated before, the first figure of 3500kg is the max. your vehicle can weigh and the 5000kg is the train weight, which means motorhome and whatever is being towed cannot exceed 5000kg.

The Eura is probably going to weigh in the region of 3200kg - 3300kg with just the driver and a tank of diesel leaving you with 200kg - 300kg of usable payload.

For 4 of us plus 2 small dogs and all the gear, we cannot just load all the gear we would just like to leave in the motorhome permanently :-(

I am investigating uprating the front springs which give an extra 150kg on the front axle. Just need to find out if the German certificate will be acceptable to replate the 'van to 4000kg.

Of course this means at least a C1 or C licence, but I have just received my Class C provisional.

Pete


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## Saphire (May 1, 2005)

Loxley. I hate to do this but Tonyt who posted after me is incorrect. First and most important factor, the combined weight of the axles acting down, (wheels) on the weighbridge must not exceed the plated 3500kg. however you could, especially if you load up the rear of the vehicle exceed the max. rear weight, which would make the need of power steering absolutely as you will take load off the front axle. These are two different issues. 
The manufacture of your motorhome, has the weight of the vehicle, (usually) with the driver and fuel, some also include water and other again gas bottles. let us say that this weight is :- 3200kg. So they put in their advertising, the fact you have 300kg payload. it has absolutely nothing to do with the axle weights as stated on your Vin plate. This as I said is a basic guide. We as motorhomers use our vehicles for many things but what we have to remember, that any accessory added, has a weight and where that accessory is place can effect the individual axle weight and make your motorhome, an accident waiting to happen and that is why the police pull motorhomes when they manning a roadside test centre. 
Your motorhome with what you have given me to work on, sounds like it is the Eura mobil Activa 690 HD. this is a 2.8TD Fiat, plated 3500kg, with the manufacture given payload of 345 kg. without any extras fitted, but carrying three passengers, 75kgx3 =225kg of your payload has gone already, leaving you just 120kg. that will be all the other items you are carrying, boards and clothing, food and drinks. 
Ignorance of the law, isn't an excuse if you are pulled, or god forbid you have an accident and cause anyone to be hurt. I applaud you for taking your motorhome to a weighbridge, you sound like a sensible motorhomer. 
But please be aware you might be alarmed at what you find your payload will be.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Saphire said:


> ...... however you could, especially if you load up the rear of the vehicle exceed the max. rear weight, which would make the need of power steering absolutely as you will take load off the front axle.


Sorry Saphire but if you load the rear of the vehicle so as to exceed the VIN Plate Maximum Rear Axle Weight then you are breaking the law.


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## Saphire (May 1, 2005)

Tonyt. That was my attempt at pathos, the rest of the line about the unloading the front end and the power steering thing was to make the point that you couldn't overload the rear axle, not the way that you have taken it  

I was more concerned that Loxely would get the wrong idea, Totally that if you add the front and rear axle weights, subtract 3500 he could then have a further 300kg in addition to the 3500 max. I wasn't having a go at you I was just hoping that he didn't follow your tack and break the law.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Loxley. I dont think you would be the only one who would get a nasty surprise after visiting a weighbridge. A large percentage of M/Hs would be over weight if their owners only knew. I run two lorries in the course of my business and am well aware of the consequences if I dont constantly keep a check on what we are carrying. We have a scrapyard with a public weighbridge near us and I frequently go in there and check we are not over allowed weights. They only charge a quid to run the vehicle over the scales.
Just a suggestion for when and if you do find you are well over the 3500kg max why not buy a lite weight van box trailer to tow. A lot of your bulkier but liteweight toys + camping chairs, BBQ etc, etc could be carried in that upto your gross max train weight of 5000kg.
When I towed our small car on a 4 wheel car trailer the actual trailer only weighed 350kg. We had a maximum allowed over our vehicle weight of 3800kg of 1700kg to take us upto our max train weight of 5500kg.
so trailer weight 350 + car 1050kg =1400kg which left us 300 kg spare which meant we could put a sensible amount in the car also such as chairs, water carriers, coats etc etc.
We now tow our car on an A frame which has got rid of the trailer weight which has given us even more free weight to put in the car but its something you have to be sensible about. The main thing to keep legal is to spread the weight over the available axles. Visit the local weighbridge regularly until you know your limits.
We live on the main A31 near the Ministry weighbridge at Ringwood in Hampshire just after the New Forest & the main road to the Coast at Bournemouth. It isnt open all the time because of the cost of running it but when they do have a purge its not only Lorries that get pulled. They pick a vehicle type, Lorries, Coaches, M/Homes, Caravans and for that day will stop nothing but that vehicle type and really go to town. Coaches and Caravans & M/Hs tend to be on or near Bank holidays and major summer weekends. They are not stupid, just a warning to everyone to be aware cos it will cost you if they catch you. These ministry checkpoints are everywhere.


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## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

Hi guys, 

well I am now a fully paid up member and am my current mood is depressed !!


visited the weighbridge this morning and as many of you warned I was not rewarded with a happy outcome.

the plated rating is 3850
my 'semi-dry' weight came out at a whopping 3720 !!
so that leaves me just 130 kg for the girlfriend and clothes, food and water.

methinks, even a starvation diet for us both is not going to gain us much of a payload.

have spent a very informative half hour on the phone to Bob at Euramobil uk who did explain to me the vagaries of my particular model.

it seems there were 2 versions of the 690HB made, one with 4 wheels and a payload of 550kg the other with 6 wheels ( albeit 4 on a single axle ) with a payload of 1150kg.

however, the 6 wheel versions are like "hens teeth" and the 4 wheeler 'lower capacity' model was more popular.

the annoying thing is/was that my budget for a van was limited by 'length' rather than pound notes as i could quite easily afford an 8m model which would give me literally tons of carrying capacity but i was unfortunately stymied by the turning circle i have in order to get on my drive and i dont think the waterways authority would take too kindly to me filling in their river which runs along the front of my house or to having me slip the clutch and 5 ton of metal sliding down the river bank into it !!

i failed to appreciate as pointed out by Bob that items such as the 4m fiamma awning and the towbar all add up to quite a few kg's being deducted from my payload.

i will be back at the weighbridge this weekend 'fully' unladen of all my toys to see what my true 'net weight' is. for certain i will have to find space in the shed for the full safari awning as i wouldnt envisage using that on most weekend trips. as for finding any more weight, well i may have to resort to a trailer, but that rather negates the purpose of buying a van with a garage !!!! ??!??!?!

As bob said, i do have a very nice van, which i dont deny; and quality costs in terms of money and weight. Its just disappointing to find these facts out now.

I was quite happy with the dealer i bought from ( NOT WESTCROFT/BROWNHILLS) , but in hindsight feel that my questions regarding load capacity were avoided.

My next recourse is on to Al-Ko to see if there are any modifications they could do to uprate the capacity but they finish at lunchtime on Fridays !

Oh well, we live and learn.

Mark


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi, Mark

Firstly, well done on subscribing. It's a great tenner's-worth.

Sorry it was bad news at the weighbridge. This load capacity is often overlooked. There was a hoo-hah a while ago, when a magazine voted a motorhome its "best of the year", when there was little or no load capacity available. All of which doesn't help you.

Maybe you could think of a two-stage loading system for the van - one for weekends, lightly-loaded with just the essentials, and another for longer trips, with maybe a small trailer.

At least you're now aware of the situation, and can hopefully do something to fix it.

Fingers crossed.

Gerald


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Not good news Mark but we all suffer the same restrictions to a certain extent. It certainly makes you sort out what's necessary and what's not.
When you go back to the weighbridge be sure, if you haven't already picked up on this, to get 2 weights - one total vehicle and one on a single axle. Just being within your total limit is not good enough - you must be within the limit of each axle. Sorry if I'm labouring this but I'm not sure you're aware of it.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Mark. Had a feeling you would get bad news. Lots of others would have a shock also if they visited their local weighbridge. Trouble is some of these european vans are now coming with these huge garages that people think will just swallow up all their toys as you put them plus cycles, BBQs, chairs, not to mention their tool boxes, electric drills & equipment (just in case needed) kids toys etc etc. That'll be ok is the attitude. Little do they know. Plod can stop them at any time and hey presto they got points and a heavy fine, the more over weight the heavier the fine.
Youve got three choices, sell it and get the bigger one, tow a van trailer and still carry all your toys or tow a small car behind and put some of your gear in that and also have the benefit of using the car when you get there. Your gross towing weight ( includes the trailer or car) will probably be the same as mine 5500kg which gives you 1700kg over your ordinary GVW of 3800kg. Out of that 1700kg you will have to deduct the weight of the car or trailer which will still give you a reasonable amount of storage for clobber.


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## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

hiya,

i am aware of the two axle weights, i had 1780 front and 1940 rear.
i forgot to make a note of the plated limits but i think i had them evenly spread. but will check tonight when i get home.

as it is, for most of the year i can probably live within the limit and not worry about a trailer.

the annoying thing is i went for this van for its 'winter' use so that i could take my 2 sons abroad for a snowboard holiday rather than us flying.
thought it would be a bit of an adventure for us.

thats the thing was had most disappointed me is that i am now limited on 'adult' payload, although i may be able to overcome some of this with a trailer.

as i say i will have to get a fully unloaded net weight at the weekend to see exactly what i have to play with.

my 'toys' however are always needed to be loaded. as a kitesurfer i have several boards and kites for varying sea/surf/wind conditions and as such you do trail a load of gear around. at least when i tow my speedboat i can load some things in there.

although i am now going to have to weigh the home with the boat as well so i will need a very long weighbridge to accomodate the home and an 17foot speedboat !!

boys and their toys !

Mark


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## Saphire (May 1, 2005)

Loxeley, I am a little confused as to your vin plate weights. In your first post you said 3500 and 5000 and in your last post you mention that it is 3850 also there are two 690 HDs, both of which are entirely different models one being the Activa and the other Integra which of the two do you have.


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## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

*2 vin plates*

Hi Sapphire,

well I was/am a little confused as I do have 2 vin plates !!

one which is the 'original' Fiat is listed as 3500kg
the other labelled Al-ko is showing the 3850kg.

a conversation with Bob at EuraMobil uk led him to checking the 'official' stats for my vehicle and it seems the 2001/2002 model year was only rated to 3850kg, the 'late' 2002 model was uprated to 4000kg and i believe the current models can be higher still.

it seems i have just made a bad choice !


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## Saphire (May 1, 2005)

Loxley. thanks for that. your vehicle has an Al-Ko so the higher plate is the correct one. to save confusion for the police, remove the 3500 plate as long as the 3850 has the vin number on, if not then both will have to remain on the vehicle. There is a chance that your vehicle could be uprated without modification to 4000kg. you would have to ring up the appropriate agency to find out. Some points of interest, from a legal point of view now. hang onto your hat for this one. My unit is plated 4000, yet my speed is not limited. Your's will be limited to 70mph on a motorway, 60mph on a duel carriage way and 50 mph on an A road. Another factor to dial in is, have you informed your insurance company that you have modifications to your vehicle, ie. a tow bar and that you intend to tow with your motorhome. if not then in an accident your insurance company will go back to the paperwork and see that you have not informed them, that your motorhome has been modified. I am trying to be helpful and not a pessimist. On the matter of the Adrian Motorhome, mentioned, I started that off with the Which Magazine people, as being misleading, when carrying three passenger and nothing else on board, that it would be over the legal weight limit.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Hey mark dont forget to weigh the two sons and the wife also :lol: Lets hope you can get your weights uprated to 4000kg, that will give you a bit more to play with. Saphire mentioned your top speeds. Dont forget that if your towing anything then your motorway and dual carriageway speeds will be reduced 10mph from those he listed. Not a bad thing actually cos it will save you fuel and be safer also.


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## 93986 (May 1, 2005)

ok guys, here's another hot potato to throw into the fire...

following advice about informing my insurance co... ( safeguard )

i discussed with them about a desire to uprate, they said no worries as is anyway as they had taken a 'standard 690hb' which is listed at 3850 for my model year.

but..... i asked about weight issues with regard to passengers... now 3 people were consulted ( including a manager ) and they called me back to confirm that they have NEVER had an underwriter ask for a weight of vehicle certificate/proof after an accident ! They said it has never been considered as an issue and that they purely look at 'legal' passengers ie how many fitted seatbelts and that is their 'limit' so to speak.

They also gave me rather misleading information along the lines of the max weight not taking into consideration these 'legal' passengers as long as the other 'loading' contents were in reasonable limits, ie 2 gas bottles and not 10, a couple of bottles of wine and not a dozen crates etc etc.

As for getting the vehicle uprated they said as long as i sent them a copy of the invoice as proof they would be happy.

I know its the 'police' who are going to need convincing of this but it seems there are as many opinions on this matter as there are variations of floor plan.


the saga continues....

Mark


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## 89539 (May 27, 2005)

Hi Mark,

I do feel for you 8O We have been driving our EM since February blissfully unaware of the weight issue. We also thought ours was 3500kg as that's what the V5 states. It was also a trip to the local VOSA weighbridge that brought out all the problems. Since I traded my SA licence for a UK one, I don't get the benefit of the C1 licence, so have been driving illegally all this time  Getting a provisional has been a nightmare as I was unfortunate enough to have heart surgery at the age of 34 (9 years ago), so the DVLA were reluctant to grant me a "vocational" lorry licence :evil:

Anyway, I had emaliled EM to ask about uprating to 4000kg and there is a company in Germany that manufactures stiffer springs for the front that will give you an extra 150kg on the front axle. Just need to find out if the certificate they issue is valid in the UK. They must be fitted by a Fiat agent. http://www.goldschmitt.de/Hauptseite.php

There is also a Dutch company (with a UK rep) that do rear springs for the Al-Ko chassis, but that won't legally give you any extra payload, but may well improve overall ride comfort. http://www.carsupport.nl/index.html

I am considering both options.

Pete


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Mark,

Coming into this one a bit late and certainly no expert on the subject but a company called sv-tech might be able to uprate the Veh/Axle weights on your motorhome and replate it accordingly, might be worth asking their advice....

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

pete


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Guys, seems like a nightmare keeping a european legal on weight, much like keeping an RV legal on width.

I can only see it getting worse as more "B" license holders look to buying a motorhome, and demand more and more extras.

I keep meaning to get mine weighed, not that I am too worried with about 1500kgs of payload, but the toys and tools do add up. :? 

Olley


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