# Smarmy salesmen



## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

When you are waiting to go in, why can you spot so many motor home salesmen at the NEC from miles away. Ruddy face from after work drinking, lank hair from smoking and shoddy clothes. 
Walking in with them, the well dressed, well groomed are selling wooden challets and whirlpools. 
Ok, I know you motor home salesmen are not all the same but why did the salesmen at the NEC nearly all fit the above. 

Also, why the attitude? We have a Hymer B614SL. List price irrelevant, discounted price at Hymer in the £74k plus a long list of extras. Its seven months old and worth £50k ish, or similar to most other one year old or less quality motorhome. 

I spoke, only because they approached me. Salesmen from Hobby and from Euramobil. In each case I was looking at what could be achieved in 6.5m length and being nosy. Hobby asked what we had and his second line was "i hope you havent got more than forty grand in that", I was looking at a medium spec Transit based unit at £65,000. Euramobil said something similar but suggesting £30,000. 

Much as I dont really care, both of them maintained that their units would maintain their value etc etc. In both cases a little web work uncovered used Hymers, one two or three years older than ours and lower specs at £20,000 more than their insults, for sale at their dealerships.

Anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that people buying a three year old A class will look at the Hymer family brands and that the other two loose at least the same if not more money. A little nod here though the the quality of Hobby units, very impressive, just not the staff. 

Why assume motor home buyers are fools, when we clearly are not. We dont write cheques for such lumps of money by being fools. 

If I am being sensitive, I am sorry, but how the hell do they sell anything. Maybe loose a stone, buy a suit and get your hair cut. Then, talk sense. 


Hi to HezBez hope you got back through the snow.

Phil & K


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Phil,

Having trained sales people and been selling for years I agree that it never ceases to amaze how bad some of these so called sales people can be.

If anyone who worked for me when I used to do shows turned up having been drinking they would have immediately been fired.

The worst type are the ones stood there at the entrance to their stands with their arms crossed just daring you to come onto my stand!

I have never been to the Motorhome show at the NEC so cannot talk about that in particular, but have been to a few dealers and been disappointed.

However at TravelWorld RV they are all smart even the reception staff and every time I have been they have treated me well and with respect. They are at the NEC, I wonder what their stand is like?

Regards

Chris


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Excellent experience on the IH stand - nothing was too much bother


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

IH was staffed by owners and some family, good, i agree. Chris, I own carlease uk and vanlease uk, have two garages and head the fairplay charter for trading standards. As Network franchisees our salesmen have to complete continual profession improvement courses and anyone who ever behaved like those amateurs would be bulleted.

Because of my buisness, we will buy anything up to 25 cars at a time, brand new. I buy commercial property and deal land.

Most other manufacturers were courteous and pleasant, just those two that annoyed. Other dealers seem to be revelling in the quiet time that Hymer UK are having right now, I understand this given their historic voracious and arrogant attitudes. But, that said, the Hymer product is still among the best, and many manufacturers like Dethleffs, Laika, Burstner and others are Hymer owned. Hymer will always be represented in the UK because its too damn profitable.

Phil & K


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## Tobysmumndad (Nov 12, 2007)

Hmm, this reminds me of the classic greasy salesman as described above, adding in the discoloured teeth. This person was trying to lock us into a mail-order contract to buy what he described as fine wine, but what Tobysmum and I rapidly detected was vastly overpriced battery acid. When we gave that opinion, his veneer of civility vanished and he proceeded to call us a pair of effing ignorant *****s. Oh dear ... no sale!

It isn't a good sales pitch to denigrate the proposed trade-in vehicle and mark down its value to such a ridiculous level. It's spivvy and insulting.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Well put, tobysdad, i can stop a man on my wavelength. I suppose i must beg forgiveness of all my peers on here because I have ranting somewhat.

Phil & K


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*sorry tobysdad*

sorry , that should have read spot a man....... silly me


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi,

Sorry must disagree with some of your comments, all my staff are dressed in Johns Cross shirts and so are many other dealers like West Country, Becks Motor Homes, Chelston and many others at the show.

Personally I detest the black suited sharp nosed shiny shoes salemen, wouldn't buy a drink of them in the Sahara desert.

Peter


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Well, he did say that most other manufacturers were courteous and pleasant, only those two annoyed......... come on, keep up, now! 

I was there yesterday for a few hours first thing, until it got too crowded. IH were bang on with their attitude (and their vans, shame they don't do one the way I want them) and the one Swift salesman was good as well. I was also well treated at the Marquis stand when I asked a few questions. Didn't really bother speaking to any others, though was amused at the strip of red carpet that led up to the Brownhill's club/customer service desk; I detected a little irony somewhere.......

All three at a very busy show gave me the impression that I was the only person that mattered - one sign of good customer service.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Peter,

Dont take it personally. I have watched on many occasions you get involved or be thanked on this forum, its obvious you are trying to be a cut above.

I was specific about the behaviour of two manufacturers and also said not all. Given the environment, the captive audience and mindset of the NEC show, I find it silly that given the cost of putting a show on that quality of staff is not consistently high.

hope the show is going well for you.

Phil & K


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## ned (Dec 12, 2006)

*CUSTOMER RELATIONS AT THE NEC*

Hi,

Just wanted to say that yet again the guys from Hymer uk came up with a good package. We had purchased a Rapido 9097df fro Swindon Brownhills last year for a good deal. It has been noticeable that the van was worth nearly as much a year later, what with the increase in Vat and the increase in the price of the equivalent model for 2010. From a financial point of view we had to think about selling the van in order not to loose the dreaded depreciation. We were going to sell privately. However, lin saw the Hymer 614 on show and we gripped Paul Parkinson and started discussions. I was a bit apprehensive about what he would offer as a trade in price but I couldn't believe the price. We would have only gained a couple of thousand on what we thought it was worth sold privately. So we have had a full year touring europe and enjoying the van and it has only cost us £2500. We have now a brand new 2010 Hymer 614 on order for May with quite a few extras with only a reasonable outlay. A good service from Hymer Uk. An excellent and well organised sale from a salesman who has always given us superb service.

Cheers............. Ned


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Hi Ned, that unit on show was gorgeous. We have the same unit a model year older. I agree with you about Hymer, they have really upped their game and quality of service in every dept. has been good.

Phil


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

*Re: salesmen*



PhilK said:


> Hi Ned, that unit on show was gorgeous. We have the same unit a model year older. I agree with you about Hymer, they have really upped their game and quality of service in every dept. has been good.
> 
> Phil


Phil - now you confuse me - I have read the thread and do tend to agree with you - if in Hymer you meant Brownhills - but they you praise Hymer as upping their game...

Yes I know you must mean the machine as opposed to the people.... but it does come across to me as being contrary as I read it...

But I think I know what you meant... ;-)

Carol


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Way back in the early 70's when the video-recorder was just about to go big-time I did the very first technical course on the Sony ßMax.

Remember them? They cost about £900 which was a heck of a lot of money then.

A week later in waltzed the Sony Rep, a fresh-faced young man dressed in typical salesman garb.

He struggled to erect the special plywood sales stand so I gave him a hand.

As we worked together, I asked him a few questions about the magic new machine.

It quickly became obvious that he knew virtually no more about it than was written in the glossy brochure, indeed he didn't even know how to put the cassette in!

I asked him what his previous job had been. 

"Area sales manager (or something like that) for Coty"

One minute flogging cosmetics - the next Hi-Tech consumer electronics!


When I had my TV shop I was pestered by quite a few salesmen.

I would see them drive up, park and then watch them putting on their tie and jacket.

They would find me in shorts and open-necked shirt and I would not do business with them unless they took off their jacket and tie!


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: salesmen*



carol said:


> PhilK said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ned, that unit on show was gorgeous. We have the same unit a model year older. I agree with you about Hymer, they have really upped their game and quality of service in every dept. has been good.
> ...


Sorry for confusion Carol, didnt mean to. The staff on the Brownhills Hymer display were from Hymer UK Preston and I have dealt with them for some years. As a result, I tend to separate them in my mind from Brownhills.

Phil


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

In my motorhoming life I have only ever dealt with Hymer UK Unfortunately my salesman Rob Mitchell has left, followed by the branch manager Lee.Both were excellent, so I am going to be a newbie next time when I come to change.I just wish they would improve the service desk personnel.

tony


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## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

I was on the TravelWorld stand on Wednesday because I am alsways interested in the N&B having just parted with one. We also went in one of the Amercian ones they had there and was chatted to by the salesman. He asked me if I liked the American (can't remember what model it was), I said it was great and also said I really liked the N & B. At which point ne told me how much better put together the N&B was and that the American was just not up the same standard.

All probably true but not much of a sales pitch if I had been really interested in driving a behemoth.

Alot of the sales people I meet at shows are notv trained in sales - they have fallen into it and that's why some are good and some are bad I guess. The professionals salesperson is not, of course, always the best.


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

I offer no other comment, other than the fact that Eura-Mobil were represented by Oak Tree Motorhomes!


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Its interesting that so many of us see it the same way, clearly many of us have had or have our own businesses and are turned off by incompetence. Tony, i dealt with the new regime during the purchase of the latest truck, no problems. Ceejayt, i experienced similar. Pomme1, i take it there is maybe something i should know about Oak Tree?

Phil


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

PhilK said:


> Hi to HezBez hope you got back through the snow.
> Phil & K


Hi Phil, that's us home.

We had to leave the van out on the narrow icy road which had snowed banked up on either side, with lorries and tractors regularly passing for a nervous 30 minutes whilst we dug 2 feet of snow off our driveway to get the van in!

You must have been quick off the mark yesterday morning - we opened our blinds and a big RV was parked where you'd been when we'd gone to bed!


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Phil,

If you do a search on here, you'll find plenty about Oak Tree, and I agree, the whole stand had a seedy air about it.

Pomme


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*hi hezbez*

We moved over after a 7.30am breakfast and went into the show at 10am. By 1pm we were leaving, all done, having upset a few salesmen

Next time you going North to South give me a shout, we live one mile from juntion 23.

Cheers Guys

Phil


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

I used to work in sales - Area Rep for various lighting manufacturers over the years. Initially we ewre hired for our knowledge of lighting and ability to design a scheme for a client. Eventually we were being 'told' how to act, talk including what we should wear. I always liked to think that people buoght stuff off me because I was 'me' and not a scripted automaton. I can spot a phoney salesman from miles away. Last year we went to the Manchester Show and with no intention of buying a brand new vehicle but wanting to see what was likely to be available to us in a few years we looked at a new one on (I wont name them - its irrelevent) a stand. the salesman was over us like a rash - until he realised that we were thinking of replacing our 15 year old van with something a bit newer. He assumed (rightly) that we were unlikely to buy new as I told him ours was ten years old when we got it. 

He left us alone.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

PhilK said:


> When you are waiting to go in, why can you spot so many motor home salesmen at the NEC from miles away. Ruddy face from after work drinking, lank hair from smoking and shoddy clothes.
> Walking in with them, the well dressed, well groomed are selling wooden challets and whirlpools.
> Ok, I know you motor home salesmen are not all the same but why did the salesmen at the NEC nearly all fit the above.
> 
> ...


I hate prejudice in any form.

Knowing the size of many of the members of this and similar web sites I am amazed that no one has pulled you up on your comments
"Maybe loose a stone" !

So are you honestly saying that some one who is a stone overweight cannot be good at their job? Or that you wouldn't consider doing business with a "fat person"?

"Ruddy face from after work drinking, lank hair from smoking and shoddy clothes" rather opinionated ? Scientific research? or your own bias?

I would agree that many hate incompetence, but saying that sale people should loose weight, is akin to saying that you would not deal with a woman, or a disabled person or a coloured person: Prejudice!

I fail to see the significance of your comment that you buy 25 cars a year? are we supposed to be impressed? I would assume that you don't buy them one by one, and you don't go to a leisure show to do purchase them.

Strangely all the training that my staff receive is ongoing, and of a technical nature. This way we can answer as many questions that our customers and potential customers ask us.

Our training is not how to sell.

In my opinion if you have fair prices, know what your talking about and have a balanced view of other human beings, people will WANT to deal with you. This way your staff will not have to be trained in ways to persuade them to deal with you.

I guess the sharps suited world of car leasing must have a different agenda! Certainly the myriad of junk email and faxes I get trying to get me to lease stuff I don't want, seems to be very professionally trying to "crowbar" me into some thing ! You may, but I do not call this professionalism.

I would rather deal with someone who is "hands on" than a bloke in a smart suit, that has shiny shoes, gelled hair and works out in the gym, but knows bugger all about the product, or worse makes things up about the products!

Different markets and attitudes I guess.

Eddie (currently overweight LOL)


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## midlifecrisismil (Sep 27, 2009)

pomme1 said:


> Phil,
> 
> If you do a search on here, you'll find plenty about Oak Tree, and I agree, the whole stand had a seedy air about it.
> 
> Pomme


Hi have to stand up here and defend Oak tree and Eura Mobil here.

Although we are very green at buying MHs (have just bought our first) we found Oak Tree to be good to deal with. There was no pressurised selling - although I dont think you get much pressure sales anywhere really.

MH was ready when they said it would be with accessories as agreed. They always answered phone when I rang with daft queries and were helpful - I have no complaints so I think its a bit unfair to call them especially when you look at the posts re Oak Tree a lot of which are 2-3 years old.

Cant comment on the stand because I didnt go to the NEC.

As to the Eura Mobil - like every MH they have their problems but if you look at the posts about Swifts (yes yes I know they sell more MH in this country than any other manufacturer)there seems to be a post every day and to my knowledge - although I am sure someone will jump in here and put me right - there are only a couple of complaints about Eura Mobils.

As I said I am green on these issues but IMHO our Eura Mobil looks better built than most MHs especially the Escape which has nasty plastic dividers in the cupboards, it has proper matresses, load of storage space, CATCHES WHICH WORK ALL THE TIME, and just seems a lot more solid that other motorhomes I have been in (and believe me I have tyre kicked hundreds in my search for a MH).

So thats my rant for the evening - over to you.


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

My pet hate is salespeople with no product knowledge who patronise me!

Glad to hear edievanblitz trains his salespeople to know their product.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

Well done eddie, I agree with everything you say. I had my own business and went on a sales course, absolute waste of time, The instructor was well dressed and good with words but thats where it stopped.
I was once introduced by the deputy head of an oganisation as 'The smoothest in my patch' but all I ever did was treat all potential and present customers as I would my best friend, but always tried to esure I had all the right answers.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Eddie, taking your points one at a time, 
Stone overweight, I described a particular breed of salesman that yes I have years of experience of. No it doesnt mean fat people cant sell but this was not a person that could sell and he was overweight.
The significance of the cars would have been too long winded to explain, we got into a bit of a discussion, and yes its a bit irrelevant. 
Glad to here of your staff training. 
Most vehicles are brokered by people in jeans and t-shirts. Must admit I havent bought from you but i have from others and i get an almost daily email, as you say, crowbar. I assume you separate yourself from the standards of Riversway etc?
Eddie, i think you took personally my rant like i took the ignorant behaviour of the salesman. Incidentally, another dealer, from Stockport, was on the same side, came over and spoke sense. 
Phil


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

midlifecrisismil said:


> pomme1 said:
> 
> 
> > Phil,
> ...


Thats because we comunicate with our customers on this forum.I dont see Euro Mobile doing so? Peter.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> PhilK said:
> 
> 
> > When you are waiting to go in, why can you spot so many motor home salesmen at the NEC from miles away. Ruddy face from after work drinking, lank hair from smoking and shoddy clothes.
> ...


Well said Eddie BUT there are still a few dodgy salesmen around hopefully non on the Swift stand as far as I know.Peter.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*Salesmen*

Peter, we visited the Swift stand, the staff were great and as an aside, this years models look like a big step. 
Phil


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## ShinyFiat (Jun 2, 2009)

Can Eddie & Phil kiss and make up?
i know both parties didnt intend to offend anyone but just make their point.

just my observation 8O 8O


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Phil, I am a bit overweight, not a tall chap, I have longish hair and cannot be dressed to look tidy, never could. 

I never had a problem selling my company or a job to anyone because I knew my product and my industry inside out. I always figured people thought me slightly odd, in mad professor sort of way, I traded on it, Alan.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Alan,

This was only a observation waiting to go into the show. It was not a slight on overweight people (most of us). I must admit I was a bit angry and dissappointed at my treatment and Eddie it was no reflection on salesmen as a whole, as its what I do much of my life and I am fiercely defensive of the profession.

Shinyfiat, from my side, I intended no slight on Eddie, if it came over wrong i apologise, because among other things I would always like to be able to pick the phone up to him or his staff for something I needed.

Alan, for 30 years I have worked in the motortrade, a decent day results in salesmen having a swift pint before they go home. But, with hindsight, something has just occurred to me as obvious. On the day that I went to the show we were over a week into the show, these guys were possibly living in a motor home and it may account for some of my observation.

Eddie, hope that clarifies.

Alan, you overweight ??? Never !!!

Whilst I am on, does anyone know of any interesting 3 week ish tours being planned for may/June 2011.

Phil


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Guys, I have no problem at all. I only posted in defence of the industry, which in my opinion has come on leaps and bounds over the last decade. 

Once I decided to post I tend to try to put up a robust argument:It's the only professional way after all :lol: 

Now if you want to see really sloppy go to the Southampton boat show  

Eddie

ps Right now that is sorted I have to go and buy some "Shine and Go" Lacklustre shampoo, and a Davina's new diet book, Alan, you go back to sleep in your armchair and wait for your breakfast, and Phil get on the phone to some potential clients and sell sell sell twiddling your wide braces:wink:


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## midlifecrisismil (Sep 27, 2009)

SwiftGroup said:


> midlifecrisismil said:
> 
> 
> > pomme1 said:
> ...


Or perhaps Peter because people dont have issues with Eura Mobils :?: :?:


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

midlifecrisismil said:


> Or perhaps Peter because people dont have issues with Eura Mobils :?: :?:


Or perhaps, people with Eura mobils realise it's futile, as no one listens :lol:

Eddie :wink:


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## midlifecrisismil (Sep 27, 2009)

eddievanbitz said:


> midlifecrisismil said:
> 
> 
> > Or perhaps Peter because people dont have issues with Eura Mobils :?: :?:
> ...


Eddie
I wont rise to it everybody to their own etc 8)


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## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

I'm not really that bothered about the salesman, though I agree they shouldn't give a bad initial impression.

Far more important to me is the reputation of the manufacturer and dealer when it comes to dealing with the inevitable faults and niggles - the salesman will be nowhere to be seen in my experience!!


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*salesmen*

Guys, i am really glad I got you going !!!

Phil

Cheers Eddie, expect a call about your cars and vans.


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