# Arto 69 GL Electrics Info Sought



## nicholsong

Hello Artos All - Kazzzy , jandk, Vennwood etc. Can anyone help - without having to rely on Gaspode and b16duv?

Have a few Qs about the electrics, particlarly the charger, which are not answered from the manuals.

What is the theoretical max rating of the charger for the batteries on EHU.

When charging the domestic batteries from the engine, I understand that the alternator will only supply the habitation batt after it has satified the requirements of the vehicle batt. At what point does this occur? 

On EHU the ammeter is showing positive and voltmeter shows about 13.8 - all normal. Off EHU with engine on idle there is no positive charge. Is that to be expected because of the low output from the alternator?
(Being solo I have not been able to see the ammeter on the road.)

These Qs arise because I am considering fitting a Battery- to- Battery charger, and maybe a 230v charger, but I first need to know what i have currently got.

A friend who is an aeronautical and marine engineer, with lots of experience on 12v systems is visiting on Wed and I want consult on my needs/options e.g. no point in buying a 230v charger which is not much more than what is fitted.

One other anomaly voltmeter reads ok on Batt 2 (Hab) but nothing on Batt 1- any clues? If not it is a question of checking all connections and cleaning them up.

Hope some of you have some answers - pref by Wed

Thanks in advance

Geoff


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## nicholsong

Morning All

Just refreshing this request in case anyone with an answer did not see my OP yesterday - I know how quickly these threads go cold.

Cheers , Geoff


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## JockandRita

nicholsong said:


> Morning All
> 
> Just refreshing this request in case anyone with an answer did not see my OP yesterday - I know how quickly these threads go cold.
> 
> Cheers , Geoff


Morning Geoff,

Fist of all, I am not a Niesmann & Bischoff owner, however, they do tend to share many of the same appliances and fittings as Hymer.

I would imagine that you already have a quality 3/4 stage mains charger onboard, (Schaudt possibly?), and will probably not need to bother with another 240v charger.
Everything I read and hear about the Sterling B2B is positive, other than the "so called" DIY installation instructions. Apparently it can be a complex process, according to an experienced and highly recommended installer.

Good luck with it all Geoff, and please let us know how you get on with it.

Cheers,

Jock.


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## nicholsong

Morning Jock

Sorry my mistake re yr MH - you must have posted on a thread with mutual N+B/Hymer kit, but thanks for replying anyway.

I think you may be right about the Schaudt being sufficient. I was trying to decipher their German manual for my Elektoblok EBL 4-106 to ascertain the output rating. It says '14A arithm' but then 'Mittelwert, enspricht 22A eff.' My friend may be able to decipher that better tomorrow. 

CTek top of range is only rated at 25A so maybe not much better than our Schaudts

You don't have an English versioon of the manual by any chance?

Thanks comments on Sterling B2B, especially about DIY fitting. My Adverc smart charger on the boat needs all sort of feedback wires from each battery to the controller, not the sort of 'plug and go' that Sterling describe.

Many thanks Geoff


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## JockandRita

nicholsong said:


> You don't have an English versioon of the manual by any chance?
> Many thanks Geoff


I'll pop out and have a look, but I think that any English written bumff is integrated within the Hymer Owners Manual.

Jock.


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## nicholsong

The Schaudt Manual I have is 5 pages of A4 - very comprehensive including wiring diagram. Only problem is the language and not all technical terms are in my Langenscheidt dictionary.

N+B Manual is also very good for anything that one needs to 'operate', e.g. switches etc., but not so good on describing specs.

Thanks for going out to look

Geoff


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## JockandRita

Geoff,

The only English written bumff that I have is as previously mentioned, and only covers a description and basic operation. I did however find a copy of the Schaudt manual for my EBL 4-105, and have translated some specifications for you. Unfortunately, it is not very comprehensive, but I hope that it is of some help.

Cheers,

Jock.

*German to English translation

1.2.2 Electrical Data

Netzanschlus .230 v (+6 / -10%) 50Hz Schutzklasse1

Netzanschluswert .250 VA

Suitable batteries .6-cell lead-acid and lead-acid batteries from 35Ah

General principle. Thyristor

Charging characteristic. IWUoU

Ladeschlusspannug .14.4 v

Volladephase .14,4 v, 6h and 20 min (selectable)
Charge voltage 'float v .13.8 (automatic switching)

Re-charge cycle. At <ca Batt. 13.8V voltage *


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## nicholsong

Thanks Jock, your translation confirms what I managed to piece together about the charging voltages, but the bits I quoted earlier about the Amperage rating are the ones that stumped me and the ones I am trying to get to the botom of.

If friend cannot decipher will try e-mailing Schaudt.

Cheers Geoff


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## JeanLuc

The word you are looking for in the Schaudt manual is Ladestrom = 'charging current'. In my EBL 99 this is set at 18 amps in stage 1 of the charging regime (it falls during stages 2 & 3).

Mittelwert = 'average'.

I think you will find that the alternator charges the batteries quite effectively when travelling, provided you are on a good run. Mine shows a starting charge-current in excess of 30A (the limit on the dial). The benefit of the Sterling B2B charger has been covered pretty extensively in posts before. As I understand it, the main benefit is that it continues to deliver a high current when a standard alternator control unit would pull it down sooner, so charging the batteries much quicker. The only issue with Hymer-group vans is that the B2B charger can fool the Elektroblock. (There was a post about this by EddieVanBitz just recently). I believe the standard system cannot register the additional charge going into the batteries. You might try calling Sterling for advice. I have found them very helpful.

Philip


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## nicholsong

Thanks foe info/translation on EBL

Re B2B, the reason I am thinking about it is that I intend do do quite a lot of wild camping with not very long distances in between, so want that max charge rate that the Sterling gives by getting round the standard automotive regulator designed for longer running and only really coping with the starter battery - same as my Adverc on the boat which can give me 50A off a 80A alternator charging 2X 105ah batteries, in the early stages of the cycle.

Take yr warning about the interface with the Electoblok. Seem to remember reading Eddievanbitz comments when I was just thinking about boosting charging capacity but it probably did not mean much then - I will search for it.

Anyone sccessfully integrated a Sterling with an Elektroblok??


Cheers, Geoff


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## gaspode

nicholsong said:


> Can anyone help - without having to rely on Gaspode and b16duv?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Well I wouldn't want to interfere where I'm not wanted but...................
Just to save you a lot of wasted effort.

I doubt if your Arto is fitted with a Schaudt charger, certainly mine is a CBE CB-516 and the charge current is 16a fused at 25a.

If the on board charger is working properly and batteries are in good fettle you should never need any other chargers as it will charge both batteries, mine certainly does so without any problems at all.


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## JockandRita

gaspode said:


> I doubt if your Arto is fitted with a Schaudt charger, certainly mine is a CBE CB-516 and the charge current is 16a fused at 25a.


Hi Ken,

He says that He's got an EBL 4-106. I've got an EBL 4-105, and we both have the same Schaudt handbook..................but not in English. 

It is for the same reasons as Nicholsong, that I too am looking at the Sterling B2B.

Regards,

Jock.


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## gaspode

In that case Jock, N&B must have dumped the Schaudt gear when they upgraded the Arto in 2005, certainly I wouldn't think any additional charger was needed if the CBE is fitted, we had an identical one fitted to our Hobby too and it was excellent.

I always assumed that the Schaudt gear was good quality, instinct would normally make you suppose that it would win over the Italian CBE stuff. :?


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## nicholsong

Gaspode, you are very much wanted!

My comment was that I think you do more than your fair share of helping us all and I thought you deserved a day off, but I think you understood that.

I am sure my Schaudt Elektroblok EBL 4-106 incorporates an integrated charger because Manual states "Max Ladestrom (charging current) 14A "

I think you are right that N+B probably changed the elec layout, possibly because there have been some problems on the Schaudt equipment with capacitor blow-outs, causing damage and rendering people powerless - break out the Tilley lamp quick!!

I am coming to believe that on the 230v side I probably have enough charging capacity.

Am still looking into the B2B because of short journeys.

Clive Mott still punts view beefing up cable, relays etc is answer but I am not sure for 30mile journeys and 3 days wild.

Have searched for 2 hours for eddievanbiz comment on interface between Sterling B2B and Elektoblok. Will have to PM him for it

Gaspode, thanks for response on your 'day off'

Cheers for now

Geoff


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## gaspode

nicholsong said:


> Clive Mott still punts view beefing up cable, relays etc is answer but I am not sure for 30mile journeys and 3 days wild.


I can't really comment on Clives' specific advice but I would respect his opinion. I don't know how well you know Clive but I do know him enough to tell you that he's one of the most respected DC electrical traction experts around in the UK. He most certainly does know what he's talking about and his professional advice would be way beyond the budget of most of us. Fortunately it comes free with MHF. 8)


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