# Scooter options.. Recomendations, options.



## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Looking again at the possibility of getting a scooter/ bike for the rear of the motorhome.... BEFORE ANYONE STARTS ,!! yes fully aware of payload implications, axle weights, leverage issues etc etc..
Done that subject to death on the old apache 700 and then never carried or used a scooter.. lol 

My request is, need a suggestion list of lightweight scooter or motorbikes. Must have large wheels and enough power to carry two.
License not an issue, have full UK bike... 

I know of the Suzuki ANF 125 Innova and recall a similar Honda but cant remember the model...


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Honda PCX 125 seems to be the best review wise but I think its 120KG+. I think a couple have gone for the 110cc vision at 103KG and reports are that its ok. I wondered about the power though but users on here say its ok.

Yamaha Cygnus 125 about 112KG I think, earlier Piaggio Liberty 125s were I think around the 100KG mark but the new ones as with most bikes are heavier about 116KG I think.

Of course if you can get one our little Peugeot Speedfight II 100cc goes like the clappers and is just 95KG. Good points. No real servicing or messing about with oil changes, quick, nimble and corners like its on rails, very handsome and cool around St Tropez harbour (bit like me  ). Bad points. Hasnt got honda reliability but just little niggly things go wrong, only 70-80 mpg two up, hard ride and you know you have done it after 50-60 miles, noisy 2 stroke but I like the sound (and the smell!), dont make em any more and finding a good one thats not been tampered with is not easy, smallish wheels

A lot of people swear by the innova and they are proven across the globe if you can get around the pizza delivery bike looks.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Hi Tonka. I have been playing with this for a couple of years and made the mistake of buying one that was too heavy at 125kg This was a Gilera Runner 180cc as the two stroke was much better power to weight ratio than the four strokes. I sold it on this year.

I am seriously looking at a Honda C90 type. Riders Cub do a chinese copy that comes in at 85kg and I did a test ride at Yeovile two weeks ago. Its light enough that I can lift the back end up easily. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW...5253078?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item5652bc3356 I might just get away with it on the back.

A Honda dealer was two doors away so I looked at the Honda Wave which is the Innova replacement. This is 105kg and the extra 20kg is noticeably heavier. It also make a difference on my calculations increasing the rear axle and tyre load and lightening the front end. (see attachment)

One needs to put an absolute maximum limit on what one is looking for and stick to it as it is very easy to keep justifying one that is a little heavier as it has the power. However, having made that mistake once and its the lighter cub for me when I get back from Morocco later this year.

I have looked at secondhand ones but they seem to have taken on a "classic" status and are silly money. I might as well buy a new chinese copy.


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## blackbirdbiker (Mar 12, 2007)

Ours weighs in at 101kg dry 125cc, I bought new in 2009 from Scooter madness in Guilford on Ebay.

Yes it is from China but we've had no problems other than tyre replacement, easliy carries two and does about 100mpg.

Bargain :wink: 

Keith


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## chiefwigwam (Jan 23, 2013)

Tonka, are you planning on a towbar rack or a hydra trail variation?

Would like to do the same


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I will be following all the suggestions Tonks. Thanks for bringing it up.
I keep trying to prise the old Citroen ZX off my wife as it's now 20 years old and we (I) rarely tow it. 

I did try a Chinese Dax 126cc Monkey Bike but after only two rides got fed up with the small wheels and all the 'clobber' you have to wear.
Helmets are a pain when you have a hearing aid and glass's.

With my very little use I was hoping to buy one for £400 to £600 but they all seem to hold their value too well. I feel a 125 with large wheels is the answer.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I would be interested to hear more from these Chinese 125 owners now they have been around for a while. 

This topic has been aired a few times and in the past Chinese bikes have always come under fire. I.e Dont touch them with a barge pole.

We probably do about 3-4000 miles a year on our bike. It gets hammered to death, up mountains and steep roads often as high as 7000ft + and often in hot and dusty conditions and nearly always two up (probably near its max payload and certainly over it before I lost weight 8O )

Any replacement would need to cope with this kind of stress so I wonder if any of you chinese owners have used your bikes in anger like this and what has the reliability been like. What about availability of parts should they break down in Germany or ITaly for example?

Mind you in 2009 we snapped a drive belt on our Speedfight in France. I thought. No Bother its a Peugeot and we are in France! 7 dealers later and the quickest I "Might" be able to get one was two weeks. in the end I had to have one shipped out from Darlington in the UK to a Honda dealer in Albi. Not a popular bike in France! I now always carry a spare!

To me reliability and ease of repair are the most important factor. We have lost the bike twice now (both for a snapped drive belt) the first time we were without it a week and it was like loosing your right arm!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I will be following all the suggestions Tonks. Thanks for bringing it up.
> I keep trying to prise the old Citroen ZX off my wife as it's now 20 years old and we (I) rarely tow it.
> 
> I did try a Chinese Dax 126cc Monkey Bike but after only two rides got fed up with the small wheels and all the 'clobber' you have to wear.
> ...


£400-£600. You could inherit "Pig" our Peugeot for that if I could ever find a suitable replacment. Actually Im so attached to it I dont think I could part with it. Ill just keep patching him up!

Fair few on here Ray

Actually the good ones are going for more than I thought. Ours is a 2004 model and when I got it in 2008 it was imaculate and only 1200 miles from new (elderly motorhome owners had it). Think I only paid £950 for it.

http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/search...dius/1500/sort/recpriceascdefault/variant/100


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks Barry and yes the cheaper ones around £400 are all going for spares.!!!!
It's even worse in France and the French want new price for a 10 year old one. But also over here 50cc is the norm and most 125cc are Trail Bikes. 

Don't think I would take yours from you Barry as it's so cherished and abused....... :lol: :lol: 

Ray.


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## blackbirdbiker (Mar 12, 2007)

barryd said:


> I would be interested to hear more from these Chinese 125 owners now they have been around for a while.
> 
> This topic has been aired a few times and in the past Chinese bikes have always come under fire. I.e Dont touch them with a barge pole.
> 
> ...


Manufacture is Lonja, over here spares are not a problem there's a company in Pompey where all spares are available.

I've had one battery failure (my fault) both tyres replaced and cracked plastics, had to adjust the valve clearance when tick over was poor . Never had start up problems always goes first time, just do service once a year and that's it.

If I was to complain it would that be the plastics are a bit thin, but then weight is the reason I bought this make.

Keith.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

blackbirdbiker said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > I would be interested to hear more from these Chinese 125 owners now they have been around for a while.
> ...


Sounds alright. Ive had a few battery problems mainly due to it being left for long periods. I have taken to taking the battery off now and leaving it indoors. Been through countless tyres and for some reason the Speedy has a problem with tyres going down. I think the rims flake inside or something. Kick start went due to the battery running flat and over use (cost £100 to fix) and the fact the automatic choke went which is common apparently. In the end I had a manual choke fitted for £30 which was the best thing I ever did. Its been perfect since.

Oh and I could do with a new seat as a Donkey atacked it and took a chunk out!

Little Sh!te!


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

chiefwigwam said:


> Tonka, are you planning on a towbar rack or a hydra trail variation?
> 
> Would like to do the same


I am planning a towbar rack.. Already have a PWS towbar in place..

Just before we bought the new apache I had a towbar, scooter rack and a 50cc scooter for the old van. Then decided to buy new van when a good deal came up at christmas last year... I tried the 50cc scooter and rack on the new van but it was fouling the rear wheel carrier so sold the rack and scooter..
Now thinking about it again... However I need to clarify the weights as I think there is a max load of 120kg on the chassis extension...Fingers crossed that it's not 100kg..!!

Thanks on feedback so far guys...


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## chiefwigwam (Jan 23, 2013)

Tonka is your chassis the same as my 2011 cherokee then?

I would assume it is, my steering is light at the front and that's with no load or anything on the tow ball/bar, think I might sway toward the hydra trail


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

chiefwigwam said:


> Tonka is your chassis the same as my 2011 cherokee then?
> 
> I would assume it is, my steering is light at the front and that's with no load or anything on the tow ball/bar, think I might sway toward the hydra trail


Yes I think we have the same chassis.. Yours I understand has about 100kg less payload, so do your figures carefully !! I am away in Spain at present and my paperwork is at home.. But if you look at yours, there should be a mention of max load onto the chassis extensions.. It's either 100kg or 120kg...


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## VJP (Dec 8, 2010)

Each time I read these posts, I hope that some one has found a 200 ish cc scooter that weighs less than 120kg. How hard can it be?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

VJP said:


> Each time I read these posts, I hope that some one has found a 200 ish cc scooter that weighs less than 120kg. How hard can it be?


Almost impossible. I think the Gilera Runner 180 as someone mentioned earlier is that ball park and goes like the clappers but Im not sure how reliable they are.

I looked at some 250 crossers and trail bikes that were near that mark but not as practicle as a scooter as we need under seat storage and a top box. These act as storage space for both helmets so we can just drive up somewhere and walk off without carrying helmets etc and can carry a suprising amount of shopping.

Its all a compromise really if your going to put a bike on a rack like we do. I would love a 600cc Paris Dakar type enduro bike which I would throw around the Alps until I dropped with exhaustion but it just is never going to happen without a trailer and I dont want a trailer!

Mind you its amazing just how much fun you can have on a 100cc 2 stroke. Its also quite amusing when you get to the top of some Alpine pass and there are groups of bikers up there on 1000cc monsters and you park up next to them, especially when they clock the GB plates.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

VJP said:


> Each time I read these posts, I hope that some one has found a 200 ish cc scooter that weighs less than 120kg. How hard can it be?


 Afternoon all,

Lambretta sx 200, rebuilt sixties model, you could uprate to 250cc if you went to aspecialist.

norm


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I have one of these







coming next weekend.. The thing that swung it for me is the handlebars can be lowered into a different position easily by slackening four bolts which tips the mirrors down and gains another 3 inches off the height to get it easily in the garage.

My reasoning why pay top dollar for a bike when I can get a brand new one for second hand money, and I will only be using it occasionally so it will be very low mileage.

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have one of these
> 
> ...


WE ARE THE MODS, WE ARE THE MODS, WE ARE WE ARE WE ARE THE MODS!












You will have to attend the scooter ralley at Bridlington on that Ray! We went once by accident on our Peugeot. Had a great time.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

These are the kind of prices the French want here..............

http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/411968494.htm?ca=4_s

http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/441232323.htm?ca=4_s

http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/441155004.htm?ca=4_s

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> These are the kind of prices the French want here..............
> 
> http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/411968494.htm?ca=4_s
> 
> ...


Do seem a tad high for the years but in good nick. I presume its too much hassle to buy in the UK Ray and export to France? A few similar Piaggios on Autotrader for about £800 and a bit newer.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

barryd said:


> Mind you its amazing just how much fun you can have on a 100cc 2 stroke. Its also quite amusing when you get to the top of some Alpine pass and there are groups of bikers up there on 1000cc monsters and you park up next to them, especially when they clock the GB plates.


Indeed. Here's me at the summit of Mount Ventoux in Provence. I was having a picnic lunchtime and a couple of Frenchmen were intrigued. I strung them along for a while, saying it seemed a nice spot I'd chosen to pop over for a ride. In the end I had to laugh and say "Camping Car", at which point the penny dropped.

> Mount Ventoux <

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> > These are the kind of prices the French want here..............
> ...


By the time I add in ferry costs for the van, then visit the family (obligatory on every visit) and get it registered in France, the cost has escalated considerably Barry.

Ray.


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## chiefwigwam (Jan 23, 2013)

I do a bit of off roading/enduro and my bike is 107kg, 4 stroke 250 husaberg road reg. I plan to take this but on a hydra trail 

Maybe you should look at a cheap honda crf 250 road legal


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

can you drive a scooter on L plates on your driving licence in Europe

we are still thinking about a scooter but are not sure how to sort out the weight issue even with Air suspension. Our van has a big overhang

it might involve a trailer

Aldra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > Mind you its amazing just how much fun you can have on a 100cc 2 stroke. Its also quite amusing when you get to the top of some Alpine pass and there are groups of bikers up there on 1000cc monsters and you park up next to them, especially when they clock the GB plates.
> ...


Yeah we went up Ventoux. Took forever! The best was Gavarnie in the Pyrenees chasing Marmots early in the morning. We just kept going until we ran our of road and the road became a ski run. It was 25 degrees down the bottom and people were still skiing up here. Again we got some funny looks in shorts and t shirts on a GB Scooter.

I do worry about pushing the little engine though. The bike was so hot at the top it was melting the snow but Ive had it nearly five years now and to be honest if it popped its engine now after the hammer and abuse its had I would gladly just have it replaced or rebuilt. Its done very very well.

Mrs D and Pig at 7500ft












aldra said:


> can you drive a scooter on L plates on your driving licence in Europe
> 
> we are still thinking about a scooter but are not sure how to sort out the weight issue even with Air suspension. Our van has a big overhang
> 
> ...


Hi Sandra

I think you will be limited to a 50cc two up on L plates or a 125 solo (I think).

50cc is ok for tootling locally but no big hills or fast roads. Still useful and fun though I would have thought.

I used this article to plan my scooter rack and I was within the limits. Just. In theory I could go bigger as I uprated the rear axle but never did the paper work to upgrade the plates and payload as I didnt need to and prefer to be under 3500KG.

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/safe-loading-and-payloads


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

You are not allowed to take a pillion on L plates.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

bigtree said:


> You are not allowed to take a pillion on L plates.


I do believe you can carry a pillion on a 50cc bike if you have a full car license obtained before 2001 without taking any bike or CBT test and then of course you dont need L plates. over 50cc you need to pass your test to take a pillion so yes your right you cant take a pillion on L plates but sandra wont need them for a moped (Assuming she can drive a car)


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

bigtree said:


> You are not allowed to take a pillion on L plates.


Hi.

Unless the pillion has past their motorbike test, then you can, or it used to be that unless it has changed.

ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No I understand that you cannot take a passenger without taking a test and if we get a Scooter Albert would do that

just wasn't sure If It was legal to drive solo on L plates in Europe on the car license meanwhile

Aldra


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/dsa/dsa-routes-to-your-motorcycle-licence.pdf

Dave


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

I stand corrected then,thought it was the same as a bike licence.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> http://assets.dft.gov.uk/dsa/dsa-routes-to-your-motorcycle-licence.pdf
> 
> Dave


Brilliant Dave. Says it all and I think your entitlement here is transferred abroad so it looks like a 50cc for twos up or a 125 on your own with L plates AFTER you have done your CBT.

My apologies to the OP for taking this off topic. As usual it appears to be me who is the main culprit.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I passed my bike test in 1963 so do I need to do any further training, when I was getting insurance quotes they asked if I had completed CBT to which I answered no.. Do I have to?.

ray.


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

aldra said:


> No I understand that you cannot take a passenger without taking a test and if we get a Scooter Albert would do that
> 
> just wasn't sure If It was legal to drive solo on L plates in Europe on the car license meanwhile
> 
> Aldra


As far as I recall, you can't drive on a British provisional licence in Europe at all. A full car licence allowing you to drive motorcycles with L plates counts as a provisional licence when doing so. So no L plates, solo or not.

I'm very happy to be corrected as my knowledge is getting a little dated.


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> I passed my bike test in 1963 so do I need to do any further training, when I was getting insurance quotes they asked if I had completed CBT to which I answered no.. Do I have to?.
> 
> ray.


Ray,
My bike licence is valid since about 1970 and as far as I know because you have a full A category licence no CBT is required.
Stephen


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

No, Ray.

I've had a class A on my licence since I was 18. Not done anything else.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

Dave


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

A few people have recently been "done" in Spain for riding scooters with a british provisional.. Lost their bikes and a big fine..

Source was from a few posts I read on Facebook..... Mainly youngsters who were trying to get around the system i think...


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> I passed my bike test in 1963 so do I need to do any further training, when I was getting insurance quotes they asked if I had completed CBT to which I answered no.. Do I have to?.
> 
> ray.


No! Get in there and buy yourself a 1000cc monster. You can do what you like on it anywhere in Europe although your chances of getting past Hull in one piece are slim but live a little and go for it!

Aldra. I may have misled you about what you can and cant drive abroad. Shows what I know. Get a 50cc moped and you both should be ok on that. Probably.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

barryd said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hi.
> ...


Hmm.

Last time I was on a big bike I went to bed for seven months in traction.. Over 40 years ago, and it still hurts :roll: .

ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I rode a scooter for years on my car license, couldn't take a passenger though

It was a 125 Yamaha

Now I would not drive one so If we go ahead Albert would need to pass the test to allow him a passenger------me

Aldra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > rayrecrok said:
> ...


You will be fine! Dont take it too easy and dont start off all nervous. Just think your a mod back in the 60's. Have confidence and you will be fine.



aldra said:


> I rode a scooter for years on my car license, couldn't take a passenger though
> 
> It was a 125 Yamaha
> 
> ...


Why not just try a 50cc, see if you like it and take it from there?


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

We rode Motorbikes on European Holidays for about twenty years fortunately never a mishap.

On our second Motorhome holiday I fell of the step (approx 300mm) and broke a tendon. Hospitalised in France for one week followed by five weeks recovery on a camp site before they would let me fly home.

We still take one of the bikes either inside the boot or on a trailer.

Don't know whether is luck or fate but I am a firm believer that the occasional adrenalin rush is essential.

Steve


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

I have this lovely little 125 scooter with small wheels except - it's positively dangerous on anything other than smooth roads, unstable over 50 mph, dangerous in the wet, if you accidentally hit a bit of a branch, a rock or a pot hole , you're off .
So am thinking of getting something safer and so far it's between the Honda CG125 bike, the Innova Step Thru, or the Sh 125 ( or 150)
I think I prefer the SH Scooter- 16 inch wheels, no chain to adjust, no spokes to clean, ABS brakes, Bike suspension, bike handling, takes two full face helmets and other bits n bobs, heaviest though at 122 kgs, latest stop start tech. 
I am an experienced biker but I much prefer these handy little twist n go scooters for the MH holidays.
One last thing, wife and I are not 'big' people so small scooter is OK for us, try for comfort and size before you buy.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Gretchibald said:


> I have this lovely little 125 scooter with small wheels except - it's positively dangerous on anything other than smooth roads, unstable over 50 mph, dangerous in the wet, if you accidentally hit a bit of a branch, a rock or a pot hole , you're off .
> So am thinking of getting something safer and so far it's between the Honda CG125 bike, the Innova Step Thru, or the Sh 125 ( or 150)
> I think I prefer the SH Scooter- 16 inch wheels, no chain to adjust, no spokes to clean, ABS brakes, Bike suspension, bike handling, takes two full face helmets and other bits n bobs, heaviest though at 122 kgs, latest stop start tech.
> I am an experienced biker but I much prefer these handy little twist n go scooters for the MH holidays.
> One last thing, wife and I are not 'big' people so small scooter is OK for us, try for comfort and size before you buy.


Gretchibald

Thanks. I agree with you about small wheels.

Will all the models you mention fit into the Arto garage without folding/dismantling anything?

Geoff


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

With our "Jincheng" East Rider I lowered the fork stanchions by 25mm and I actually compress the forks a further 50mm by using a turnbuckle for loading into the boot. Bit off a faff takes about ten minutes to load and five to off load.

The bike is an Innova style copy 110cc 50mph two up seven years old and never missed a beat. £600 new.


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

I have the Yamaha Xenter 125

Exactly the same as a Honda SH 125 (but cheaper) comes with a screen and top box as standard and carries my 18 stone frame with ease along with my better half's 9 stone frame over 60. 
(not suppose to do that yet as its brand new and being broken in)

It has 16 inch wheels so soaks up bumps etc and is a bit more forgiving compared to the smaller mopeds.

I'm 6ft 2 and is a nice height for me (the Honda PCX 125 was to small)

It's servicing schedule is longer than compared to a Honda (honda is every 2.5k Yamahas every 3.5K...all adds up)

Still does over 100mpg so can't whinge

However it is heavy at 134kg!!

So far I can't say a bag thing about it.


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## dipsie (May 30, 2008)

Years ago we used a Honda SH50 ( City Express ) Larger wheels, enough room aboard for two, fitted with a 75cc large bore kit, it went well, we used it all over the place in the UK and Europe. We carried it on the rear of several motorhomes with no problems. It was a 2 stroke so it did not weigh as much as the modern 4 stroke models. The big bore kit is probably still availabe and is undetectable to anyone looking, unless the motor was stripped. I think age wise they were produced from the early 90's and wre still in production into the 2000's. If your scoot/moped is going to be hung on the rear of your motorhome it is going to get filthy does it matter how old it is as long as it does what you want . If you browse through Scooters on e. bay you will often see them advertised, I have seen low milage ones that still look reasonable, these were never popular with kids so some have suvived quite well. Just a though ! Bernie T. ( over 40 years as a motorcycle/motor dealer)


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## Roadhogg (Oct 6, 2012)

Herself has a Suzuki Burgman 125 that she bought new in 2003 but never really used, it has only 4030 kilometres on it.

We got a Towbar on the Motorhome last Friday, so yesterday I got the scooter out of the shed & gave it a good clean & it is absolutely immaculate, so I shall bring it to the local bike shop & get all the fluids etc changed. Even though it has not been moved in 3 or 4 years the tyres were still hard.

I like the idea of the scooter to bring travelling with us as both helmets will go under the seat leaving you free to wander around hands free.
At 156 kgs she is to heavy for a rear rack but should be fine on the Hydra-trail from Easy-lifter.


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## toymaker (Mar 1, 2013)

Hi Tonka
Like you I ride a real motorbike and wanted a scooter for the motorhome that handled in a similar manner. I carry my scooter in the garage of my Rapido so weight and physical size is a real consideration. I tried a Honda Lead for a while but the senior management couldn't get comfortable on the back and it handled too much like a scooter rather than a bike. I have now traded the Lead in for a Honda Vision which although only 110cc it goes really well with two up (both not very big). The vision has bigger wheels than most scooters and handles really well with a nice stable ride. Only down side is limited storage under the seat as the tank is there. The dry weight is listed as 103kg so not massively heavy.

Happy and safe riding.
John


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

toymaker said:


> Hi Tonka
> Like you I ride a real motorbike and wanted a scooter for the motorhome that handled in a similar manner. I carry my scooter in the garage of my Rapido so weight and physical size is a real consideration. I tried a Honda Lead for a while but the senior management couldn't get comfortable on the back and it handled too much like a scooter rather than a bike. I have now traded the Lead in for a Honda Vision which although only 110cc it goes really well with two up (both not very big). The vision has bigger wheels than most scooters and handles really well with a nice stable ride. Only down side is limited storage under the seat as the tank is there. The dry weight is listed as 103kg so not massively heavy.
> 
> Happy and safe riding.
> John


This would be my choice of replacement of our Speedfight if I ever replace it!

Whats it like on big hills two up?


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Nicholsong - Don't know if the aforementioned scooters will fit yet, expect to remove mirrors on any type though. One tip for the Arto, if you keep the ramp short this increases the angle of approach and means that the front wheel of the scooter drops over the door lip into the garage floor before any other part of the scooter enters , this increases the available height.


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## dally1 (Jul 1, 2010)

As others have said, it's the small wheels on some scooters that's the problem. We have a Aprilia Mojito 125 and when we're both on it then it's positively frightening on anything other than the smoothest of roads. What I fancy is a low weight trails bike but haven't seen anything as yet which is lucky really as I'm skint.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Just been out on my Vespa 250. Might still be a bit chilly but it's lovely being able to have a thrash with the rubber gripping dry roads 

Dave


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

It's got to be another 10 degrees warmer for me  

tony


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> It's got to be another 10 degrees warmer for me
> 
> tony


Ya big Fairy!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

That doesn't look fun to me...

Without diverting the thread, I have been wondering what is the biggest bike that will go into the rear garage of a quality German van.

I see the Hymer B-class SL with Al-Ko tag chassis can take 350kg on the floor of the garage, but it's always the door aperture height and the manhandling that seem more limiting.

Dave


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

My newly purchased 680 has an aperture opening 1.35m high, with a drop of 50mm over the lip. The biggest I 've had so far. I can drive up the ramp and walk into the garage with it.  

tony


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> My newly purchased 680 has an aperture opening 1.35m high, with a drop of 50mm over the lip. The biggest I 've had so far. I can drive up the ramp and walk into the garage with it.
> 
> tony


Hi.

1.35 = 4 feet and 5.1496062992126 inches .. Gemmys an Umpa Lumpa :lol: .. Umpa Lumpa :lol: ..Umpa Lumpa :lol: :lol: :lol: 









ray.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Unfortunately the BMW R1200GS 2013 is 1450mm high excluding mirrors :-(

238kg, 2210mm long.

Dave


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## dfk (Jan 25, 2013)

Hi I have a Sachs Madass 125.It takes up little room and is easily winched.Riding position is a little tiring though as you feel as if you're sliding forward.Other than that it rides very well feels very stable.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

Been for my first ride on the new scooter, 25 miles in the snow and hail. Bloody freezing I can't feel my fingers, and now I have the hot aches.. It is blowing a gale and I had a few moments when the wind caught me from the side, but coped well and didn't wobble too much :roll: ..

I have to get 185 miles in before we go away so it can have the thin oil changed for normal oil, anyway it was good to be back on two wheels. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> Been for my first ride on the new scooter, 25 miles in the snow and hail. Bloody freezing I can't feel my fingers, and now I have the hot aches.. It is blowing a gale and I had a few moments when the wind caught me from the side, but coped well and didn't wobble too much :roll: ..
> 
> ...


Wahay!!!!   

Well done that man! Just think how lovely it will be scooting around the med in shorts when its 30c! Have you had the other half on the back yet?

Take it easy!


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Without diverting the thread, I have been wondering what is the biggest bike that will go into the rear garage of a quality German van.
> Dave


Ducati 999 sports bike (200kg) in a Dethleffs 7870 tag axle. And its within the axle limits!

In fact, unlike the Honda CG125, I don't have to take the mirrors off!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

bigtwin,

What arrangement do you have for loading and lashing?

I think a tag has the potential to drive me up the wall with lack of traction and levelling. I guess full air suspension with decent travel can fix the levelling, but I'll wet myself every time I come to a stop on wet grass! :-(

That said, I fear the van I will fancy (2014 S-class) is going to be an Al-Ko tag.....

Dave


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

barryd said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hi.
> ...


Hi.

Yes she has had a ride round to the village and back.. I will "have" her later when it warms up a bit and we are somewhere quite. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ray.


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> bigtwin,
> 
> What arrangement do you have for loading and lashing?
> 
> ...


Hi Dave

I use one of these to secure the front wheel and one of these for the rear wheel.

I load/unload with one of these folding ramps.

In terms of traction, I've only ever once had a problem once. For this scenario I have a set of snow chains. They take a minute or so to fit each side and then its no problem.

However, with or without snow chains, the key thing is to stop as soon as your wheels begin to spin. There is nothing to be gained from trying to persist with spinning wheels.

Another key to success in terms of not getting stuck is planning where you will pitch. I always pitch with a view on my exit and always (in wet weather/winter) drive my rear wheels onto a length of decking plank. This reduces the resistance that the front drive wheels are attempting to overcome when moving off.

It works for me.

In terms of levelling, I use a combination of short lengths of plank and Millenco ramps. If possible I try to pitch such that its my front wheels that need to be raised.

More often than not, it's not a problem. I don't have self levelling/air suspension. The cost for such a system for a tag axle was double that for a single axle so was prohibitive against the perceived benefit.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Thanks very much. Do you power it up the ramp and climb in with it?

The trouble is I'm an ex-caravanner neurotic about being level (and the missus doesn't exactly help - she has a micro-spirit level in her head when she goes to bed) and an optimiser to boot.

So, deciding how to pitch the van best, taking into account view, wind, sun, satellite access, and slope/levelling is bad enough, without having to compromise that lot by ensuring I'll have traction when I leave! :-(

Dave


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Thanks very much. Do you power it up the ramp and climb in with it?


If I have support with me, we push it up. If not, I walk it up on the clutch. Once the front wheel is in the chock, the bike is self supporting.

I can remove the bike on my own. The biggest challenge is applying enough force to remove it from the front wheel chock!

Ian


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Which reminds me - I must get some of that gritty stuff to put on my rack ramp just where the rear wheel spins when it's wet.

Dave


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

How about one of these..







. :lol:

ray.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

A few videos/photos of bikes/scooters loading/unloading would help demonstrate all the options here , anyone got any. I have been laid up with a bad back for over three weeks now so I'm out.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> How about one of these..
> 
> ...


Good one Ray 

Is there an 'A'- frame for it? :lol:

Geoff


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Now back home and have been able to catch up on this thread,,,

I may have a problem !! :? 

Just studied the paperwork that came with the Apache 700 and on the certificate of conformity under "masses" it states.

"Technically permissible maximum static vertical mass at coupling point " 100kg
I re-call that I did email Autotrail about this (but cant find the reply now !) and they stated that was the max downforce weight at the towball.... If that is correct then I am very limited to what I can use..
Having a re-think...


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

That is correct. I have had a similar exchange with Swift. 

I have been posting on this issue until I'm blue in the face but have given up because there are many who seem intent on loading their motorhomes beyond the capabilty of the vehicle and are intent to rely on axle weights only. Some engineering companies seem to ignore vertical load and fail to advise purchasers of its significance.

My only hope is that nobody has an accident as the insurance company will not pay out and will hold the driver liable for driving a vehicle in an overweight state.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

IF your talking about a tow ball mounted rack then can you not get a chassis mounted rack?

Our rack was fitted by Armitage Trailers in Ferrybridge and will take 200KG. It took them 8 hours to fit it but they modify and build the rack into the Alko Chassis. Don't ask me how but its solid as a rock. Its rated to 200KG but obviously this would put the van payload over but it might be an answer.

Ill have a look and see if I have any photos of loading or off loading but not sure I have.


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

barryd said:


> IF your talking about a tow ball mounted rack then can you not get a chassis mounted rack?
> 
> Ill have a look and see if I have any photos of loading or off loading but not sure I have.


I think the main implication is that the chassis extensions used on van's from about 2010 now have preset holes ready to take towbars. Mine is 3 fixing bolts on either side and so there is a weight limit placed on these extensions. Whereas maybe before, like on my old apache 700, nothing was ever mentioned and you had to trust the word of the towbar fitter.
I have seen some towbars where they have screwed supports off the towbar into the main floor of the van !!! Accidents waiting to happen..
The tow limit on my van is also limited and although a 4250kg vehicle it can only tow 1050kg, again I guess due to the chassis extensions..

Not ruling it out yet but being extra careful...


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

tonka said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > IF your talking about a tow ball mounted rack then can you not get a chassis mounted rack?
> ...


Ah. I see. I know when I did mine I talked at length to Armitage and they were pretty thourough about payloads and chassis etc.

Might be worth talking to them or Watlings I think is another one.

Cant find any very good photos. Just this one. There is a ramp the length of the rack that goes on the back or in the garage. Easy job to wheel bike on and off. Then a U shaped heavy bar with rubber on goes over the seat and ratchet straps down, plus a ratchet through front wheel. Takes 1-2 min to get on and less than a minute to get off.


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Barry, It's a bit like the one I had fitted on my previous van, then never used and sold the van !! ( dont ask ) ........

The rack slid in and spread the weight a bit better than a towball mounted one. However it did not go back to the original chassis and the towbar was still fixed just to the extensions. The fitters plated it at 120kg......


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Engineering companies such as those mentioned will take axle weight and payload into account but in my experience none take vertical load into account. Probably vertical load is not such an issue with older vehicles but with modern vehicles it is which virtually rules out carrying anything over 100kgs on the rear. Given that the rack and other fixings weigh around 50kgs that effectively means that it is impossible to carry a scooter legally.

Having said all that I believe it is worth discussing requirements with the aforementioned firms but in doing so refer to vertical load and importantly also the Type Approval Regulations. As you will probably know if the vehicle is Type Approved a Type Approved device such as a towbar must be fitted.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Does this mean I will never have a new van? I can see me trundling around in a patched up old kontiki when I'm old a grey! 

There must be some modern vans that can cope. Don't manufacturers listen to mh owners? Loads want scooters.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I've got one of these cluttering up my garage

http://www.linnepe24.eu/produkte/freizeittechnik/lastentraeger/aluxxs.php

tony


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Some will but those rated at 100kgs vertical load and probably those that are sub 3500 kgs may not.


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## urbanracer (Aug 22, 2007)

I have been looking to get a scooter for motorhome,I have a 12 reg its an Elddis and all Elddis model have a towbar max downforce weight of 100Kg,I have the type approved witter towbar.
There are a few racks than come in at 20kg and some a few kgs less.

So that leaves me 80Kg to find a scooter and the best I can find is a Peugeot 50cc v-Clic at 79Kg.
There may be other such as monkey bikes but I want a standard size scooter just for nipping to shops if parked up too far to walk.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Have you considered the weight of the towbar in relation to rear axle loading not vertical load? And you need to check the weight of the bike road ready ie with fuel and oil. Many bike weights are quoted without fuel and oil. It looks as though you may be able to carry a scooter.......just.


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## Qnapper (Jul 26, 2012)

GEMMY said:


> I've got one of these cluttering up my garage
> 
> http://www.linnepe24.eu/produkte/freizeittechnik/lastentraeger/aluxxs.php
> 
> tony


I have that fitted to mine and to be honest very happy with it - put our Honda PCX 125 on and off we go.


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## lagold (May 31, 2005)

*carrying a bike*

Hi I have carried a scooter on two motorhomes both autotrial the bike is a yamaha cygnus x 125 never had any trouble carrys two people no trouble under seat storage ,made my own bike rack including ramp .Moving on bought a bike trialer across the back going to by a burgman 400 to do more touring .
Never worried about axle weight as long as you do your home work and don't over load the unit look after your tyres on the motor home .do 1500miles every year in france .soon as new bike bought 2006 cygnus x for sale .


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Nicholsong-- Still looking for a decent SH 125 to come up for sale but couldn't resist buying this one today just a few miles from home and cheap as chips. Can't report on the performance yet as only had a short test ride but can say that it fit's in the MH as I collected it in it.
( Photo is not the actual scooter but is identical, plus mine has a colour coded top box)

Yes I know it's a cissy !


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

A Piaggio Liberty is an excellent bike used widely by the Postal Service in France. It's one of the lightest bikes also. A good buy.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> Nicholsong-- Still looking for a decent SH 125 to come up for sale but couldn't resist buying this one today just a few miles from home and cheap as chips. Can't report on the performance yet as only had a short test ride but can say that it fit's in the MH as I collected it in it.
> ( Photo is not the actual scooter but is identical, plus mine has a colour coded top box)
> 
> Yes I know it's a cissy !


I considered one of them. I was confused though as the older ones I think were around the 103KG mark but the newer ones were nearer 118KG (I think).

Let us know how you get on with it. I think it looks smashing. Not sissy but Chic. Very cool round St Tropez harbour in shorts and shades! All you need is a Victoria Beckham look alike for the back and your away.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Gretchibald said:
> 
> 
> > Nicholsong-- Still looking for a decent SH 125 to come up for sale but couldn't resist buying this one today just a few miles from home and cheap as chips. Can't report on the performance yet as only had a short test ride but can say that it fit's in the MH as I collected it in it.
> ...


Barry

Victoria Beckham? 

It has got to be Audrey Hepburn 

Geoff


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Here's something else to consider when buying a scooter. 
I have been working on my recent scooter purchase ( Piaggio Liberty , photo above)to get all ship shape for this year's hols , oil changes , general service etc. There was a lot of surface rust and corrosion underneath which needed rubbed down and painted also the exhaust pipe. Decided to take it off-- lack of access to the manifold nuts made me give up , just paint it in place. --However noticed it had a slow puncture in the back wheel , no problem I'll whip that off i thought-- guess what, the exhaust has to come off to facilitate the rear wheel removal. I did manage it in the end, but it's not something that you would want to do , or even could do, at the side of the road. 
Think I'll put that liquid puncture proof stuff in before reassembly.
Access to the engine, poor,removal of panels difficult and time consuming. As i said , something else to consider.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Having a bout of insomnia I have been passing time looking at Fleabay.
I think its been discussed before that very often products are rebadged items manufactured by an other in another place.
What we used to call "Badge Marketing.
BMW and Vauxhall, for example also the Sellers home is very often not the place of manufacture. My Suzuki was made in Mexico.

To the point. Two scooters Peugeot Vox £1300 and possibly Loncin LX110 £1100 look identical to my Jinching sold as a Chinese product by a local dealer some 7yrs ago. I paid £600, still going strong starts first button push and no problems to date.

The point being, do not be influenced by the badge on the tank look a little deeper and don't discount Chinese products as poor quality, my experience with machine tools etc if its simple technology they can be good VFM.


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## PEPPS (Mar 19, 2013)

Good morn just purchased a lexomoto 125 tornado brand new total cost 900 pounds with warranty take a look at there web site, its also quite light i think under 100 kgs also purchased a side loading trailer from armitages this is for use down in Span during the winter months i would normally take the smart but they seem to have got strict about the A frames


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

PEPPS said:


> Good morn just purchased a lexomoto 125 tornado brand new total cost 900 pounds with warranty take a look at there web site, its also quite light i think under 100 kgs also purchased a side loading trailer from armitages this is for use down in Span during the winter months i would normally take the smart but they seem to have got strict about the A frames


http://www.lexmoto.co.uk/SB125T-21(B08).php

Spec looks good!

101KG. That would easily go on our rack. Have you got it yet? Let us know how it performs. My two biggest worries are power on hils (not fussed about top speed) and parts when it breaks down somewhere in Europe (which it will if Im riding it).

£900 though! Bargain.

EDIT: Cant get the link to work for some reason



Just google it!


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## Roadhogg (Oct 6, 2012)

On a slightly different note but still important, we have just bought a Hydra-Trail & intend using a Suzuki Burgman that we have had for years, but whilst setting it up last Saturday I came across another problem, the scooter is too enclosed, sure all the fairings etc would be wonderful as weather protection for a daily commuter but trying to secure it on a bike rack is a nightmare & I wonder how much of the fairing will be intact after a few European tours, so my advice to anyone buying a scooter would be to keep it simple.


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## jonus (May 1, 2005)

I use a proper motorbike: a yamaha rxs100 99kg. Just sayin.. they do 70mph. not tried it 2-up yet though...probably 55mph. £500 on ebay would get a good-ish one. The only issue with them is that the tanks rust from the inside and dump crud in the carbs. I wouldn't recommend fitting a fuel filter either as that tends to kill the thing through overheating by drip dripping fuel just enough to kill it. if you never run it on reserve and occasionally bleed out a bit of fuel after it's been stood overnight (on reserve) the'yre ok. Unlike other 2-strokes, the engine is a real swiss watch and should go for 30k miles no probs.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I would just get s transvers trailer and put my suzuki on it.
Lady p will not let me. So its park up, push bikes or public transport
Dave p

ail


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I would just get s transvers trailer and put my suzuki on it.
> Lady p will not let me. So its park up, push bikes or public transport
> Dave p
> 
> ail


Don't tell her! Just go out and get a bike and rack or trailer and sneakily put it on when she isn't looking. Then turn up somewhere and show her what you have brought along! She will either jump on and fly off into the countryside with you or throw a strop in which case you can fly off on your own and have some fun!

Either way, result!


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## Motorhometone (Jan 7, 2008)

With reference to the Piaggio Liberty 125 I have had 3 during the past 13 years of Motorhoming. I find that they are stable, will run at 55 mph two up, and mine have never failed. After a lot of checking they are lighter than most 125 cc scooters.
I have managed to load my 3500kgs Chausson within the legal weight requirements, subject to limiting on board water when travelling even fully loaded for Spain.
I never would of changed to motorhoming without having the convenience and pleasure of a scooter when on site.
Unfortunately whilst in Spain we slipped off the scooter on to the hard tarmac, due to diesel oil on the road. Our old bones don't bounce anymore just bruise badly so the the motorhome is up for sale and now its back to tugging for us.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

" 3 during the past 13 years "- 
Don't want to appear clever clogs , there's too many like that on here, but a new scooter every 4 years with low and possibly dry MH mileage isn't much of a test. 
Actually I think that's very good advice ie buy a new one or fairly new one often-- no maintenance issues.
Wonder if anyone has had a new cheaper Chinese one for more than a couple of thousand miles without issue.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> " 3 during the past 13 years "-
> Don't want to appear clever clogs , there's too many like that on here, but a new scooter every 4 years with low and possibly dry MH mileage isn't much of a test.
> Actually I think that's very good advice ie buy a new one or fairly new one often-- no maintenance issues.
> Wonder if anyone has had a new cheaper Chinese one for more than a couple of thousand miles without issue.


This is my concern. £900 is very cheap for a new bike when a new Honda 125 is three times that almost.

Our bike gets some serious hammer up mountains and the like and we have had it since 2008. Just silly things have gone wrong with it really, nothing major. I think its likely I will just hang on to it to be honest until it finally croaks and even then I suspect it wont be too bad to rebuild.


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