# Unladen weight - definition and EU directives.



## timotei

The text below is copied from the Rapido website.

_When purchasing a RAPIDO, the unladen weight includes the weight of the vehicle's standard equipment.
The unladen weight of camping-cars is determined in compliance with the laws currently in force and includes the vehicle in working order, the driver (75kg), the gas bottle, fresh water and fuel tanks up to 90 % of their capacitywith a tolerance of +/-5 % (in accordance with European Directive EC 92/21).
It is therefore the responsibility of the user to adjust the load and the number of passengers on board according to the payload and the weight of any additional equipment he installed or has had installed in the vehicle._

My understanding of this is that the unladen weight includes one person (driver), and full(ish) fuel and water tanks. It also suggests that this is in accordance with a specific EU directive. If this is the case, shouldn't all European motorhome be the same?

When making enquiries about the weights of motorhomes recently, I was consistently told by dealers and manufacturers in the UK that the unladen mass took no account of any of the above.

Have i (mis)understood? Is the EU directive to do with the tolerance of measure on the water / fuel tanks, rather than stating that unladen mass should include them? What is your understanding, or what do your manufacturers / converters state?

Thanks,

Timotei.


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## Pudsey_Bear

The unladen weight of a commercial van is with everything empty, no driver, 1 gallon of fuel and all liquids IE radiator etc full to normal levels.

Then you take it to a weighbridge, after that you know how much you can carry which is your payload, this includes you and fuel etc.

This is also why "some" MH manufacturers claim these ridiculous payloads, you put your water in fill up with diesel, throw a pair of knickers in a drawer and you're overweight, or close to it.

They should be made by law fill everything up, except the fuel tank (diesel weighs 0.856kg per litre) which can be calculated, some even remove the spare, weigh it and give you a certified weighbridge certificate of exactly what it weighs.

Then if you get pulled, you know it's your own fault.

BTW we are usually overweight with everything full, oops.

Kev.


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## timotei

Kev,

that must be some pair of knickers!!! 8O   

Timotei


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## Pudsey_Bear

Err, no, I'll keep me gob shut.


Kev.


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## JeanLuc

The Rapido website is wrong. The figure they are referring to (75kg driver, basic equipment etc.) is called the Mass in Running Order (MIRO).
The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle fully loaded is called the Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) or sometimes the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM).

So, MTPLM minus MIRO = the practically usable payload after accounting for fuel, gas, water etc. (But you still have to make some adjustments, e.g. most of us are over 75kg!)

Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.

I have found it really hard to determine the unladen weight of my Hymer (other than with a weighbridge) but from the catalogue, I can read the MIRO and then adjust it for extras like awning, additional battery, bigger engine, auto box and my real weight etc.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

Philip

p.s. have you looked in FAQ section? I cannot remember whether there is a paper on weights in there, but would guess there is.


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## timotei

Sorry Kev!!    

Hope I haven't got you in trouble!


Thanks Jean Luc - that makes good sense.

Timotei.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I have been in trouble before, I shall be in trouble again most likely, even when I'm right I appear to be wrong, such is the life of a bloke.

Ho Hum


Kev.


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## rayc

Quote : Philip:
Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.

Philip

Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg. The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?

The notice in my Chausson handbook is " Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order +/- 5%" = 3075kg. It then defines Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order as " The weight empty, including the weight of the driver 75kg,plus 90% of the fuel, water and gas.

I would argue therefore that my MH unladen weight must be much less than 3050kg and therefore the higher speed limits apply to it. I hope I never have to explain that to a Police Officer manning a speed trap.

Ray 

Ray


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## JeanLuc

rayc said:


> Quote :
> Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg. The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
> Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?
> 
> Ray
> 
> Ray


I agree Ray, it's not that easy. In my case, the MTPLM is 3800kg and the MIRO for the basic van is "approx. 3,000 kg" (Hymer's words) making the unladen weight less than that. However, given that there are quite a few 'weighty' upgrades to the basic spec, I err on the side of caution and assume the unladen weight may be at or above the magic 3050 kg. So, I try to keep to 50mph. I suspect I am being over-cautious, but it would be a pain to have to prove the point. In any case, I like playing the 'beat the mpg' game.

Philip


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## nicholsong

rayc said:


> Quote : Philip:
> Unladen Weight as Kev says is the van basically empty. It is of little value to a motorhomer, other than to calculate the absolute payload. It is also the figure used to determine whether your maximum speed on a single carriageway is 50 or 60mph, and 60 or 70mph on a dual carriageway. If the unladen weight is over 3050kg, the lower limits apply.
> 
> Philip
> 
> Philip, If a summons is issued for exceeding the speed limit for a MH with an unladen weight of greater than 3050kg* how do you prove the unladen weight is under 3050kg.* The unladen weight is not plated and as you say the manufacturers figure is in effect the MIRO. The MIRO must always be greater than the unladen weight ,as it allows 75kg for the driver etc,so I guess you show the court the manufacturers quoted MIRO and argue your case.
> Incedentally how would a Fixed Penalty Notice be issued for the offence in the first place? A check of DVLA will only show the "Revenue Weight" which bears no relationship to the MIRO or Unladen weight?
> 
> The notice in my Chausson handbook is " Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order +/- 5%" = 3075kg. It then defines Vehicle Body Weight In Running Order as " The weight empty, including the weight of the driver 75kg,plus 90% of the fuel, water and gas.
> 
> I would argue therefore that my MH unladen weight must be much less than 3050kg and therefore the higher speed limits apply to it. I hope I never have to explain that to a Police Officer manning a speed trap.
> 
> Ray
> 
> Ray


The prosecution have to prove your unladen weight was above 3050kg.

Maybe that is why we do not have many reported cases of convictions.

Just file it in 'Pending further investigation'

Geoff


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## rayc

nicholsong said:


> The prosecution have to prove your unladen weight was above 3050kg.
> 
> Maybe that is why we do not have many reported cases of convictions.
> 
> Just file it in 'Pending further investigation'
> 
> Geoff


Geoff,
Was it really nearly 9 years ago that I got that first motorhome and joined MHF? It must have been one of my first posts. I am still here so MHF must do something for me but I realise how naive I was in those days. Anyway 4 motor homes later, of various weights and sizes, I have never had the need to prove the ULW of any of them.
Ray


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## nicholsong

rayc said:


> Geoff,
> Was it really nearly 9 years ago that I got that first motorhome and joined MHF? * It must have been one of my first posts*. I am still here so MHF must do something for me but I realise how naive I was in those days. Anyway 4 motor homes later, of various weights and sizes, I have never had the need to prove the ULW of any of them.
> Ray


Ray

What was one of your first posts? something similar to what I said about prosecutors needing to prove?

You have had 4 MHs in 9 years? HMRC might be after you as a 'Trader':grin2:

Geoff


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## rayc

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> 
> What was one of your first posts? something similar to what I said about prosecutors needing to prove?
> 
> Geoff


Geoff,
Your post of 20.33 today quoted my post from August 2009. I had only had a MH two months then. I have had a fantastic 9 years since then and have made some great friends, most who I met through the MHF rally group.
Ray


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## Pudsey_Bear

Why not have the UW on the vehicle like they still do with the bigger stuff and used to do with smaller vans.


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## nicholsong

rayc said:


> Geoff,
> Your post of 20.33 today quoted my post from August 2009. I had only had a MH two months then. I have had a fantastic 9 years since then and have made some great friends, most who I met through the MHF rally group.
> Ray


Ray

I had not appreciated that that post I quoted dated from 2009. Now I understand.

Geoff


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