# Are we the only ones having after sales problems.



## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

We took delivery of our new Dethleffs GlobetrotterXLi at a cost of nearly £100,000 from Lowdhams in Newark Nottingham. The handover was rushed but we did point out that as walking through the van the side locker door beneath the leather seating was pushing the door open forcing it to spring open as you moved past or sat on the seating. The response was the leather seating would wear in. There was initially a problem setting up the 2 televisions, but they managed to get both working.

We then left for a campsite to give the vehicle a trial run. There was a loud knocking sound coming from the left hand side of the dashboard. The televisions would not work at all, on inspection by a fellow camper it was believed there may have been an LNB Problem, I notified Lowdhams who suggested they were ok when they left them. On returning home one of the light fittings fell from the ceiling and disappeared under the seat. We also had a warning buzzer and a red light on the dashboard came on, unfortunately the notification panel was in German so we had no idea what it meant. The vehicle lost all power on the busy A326 and came to a stop. After a few minutes we were able to continue our journey home without further issue.

I contacted Lowdhams again and asked them to investigate the first two problems believing the loss of power incident was just a one off. 
Lowdhams had a 6 week wait in their service department and referred us to Premier at Chichester, There wait was only one day nearer. Once again I phoned Lowdhams, we were extremely worried by the knocking sound coming from the front section beneath the dashboard. They contacted Premier who agreed to let the (Salesman) look at the vehicle to see if he could help.

We took it to Premier, they believed the knocking sound just needed insulating with padding, A new light was ordered and the televisions after much waiting for the satellite dish to lock in they finally got working. We still had to wait for the other issues to be repaired on the original date given.

That same weekend we went away, and once again the Televisions would not work, We also found the bathroom area flooded due to a faulty tap. I telephoned Premier who said they would order a new tap, and repair when we attended there workshop on the 2nd August The date being brought forward by nearly 2 weeks due to a cancellation.

We attended Premier, on the 2nd August, The knocking sound was made good, the light fitting replaced plus an additional light fitting that had dislodged from it’s housing on our way there., They were unable to fix the televisions as they were not authorised dealers of Teleco. The tap was not repaired as the wrong one had been sent so it was suggested they disconnect the pipework so we could still fill the system.

It was pointed out to us that there was a knocking sound coming from the overhead cab bed. They also disturbingly pointed out low levels of fluid in the washer container and the engine coolant system. We were advised that there was a possible leak in that system. The tyres were all deflated by a third as they contained too much pressure in them. They also changed the dashboard readings to English for us and changed the settings on the radio to the correct settings and showed us how to operate it correctly. A great service from Premier.

We went on a 2 night break after leaving the dealership, on arrival the engine coolant fluid was once again below the accepted levels, we also found on putting up the Awning one of the 2 legs holding the awning in place failed to hold rendering it impossible to put up. One of the adjuster knobs came off of the driver’s seat whilst attempting to adjust the seatback position.

We made a call to Premier who advised us to take it to the nearest Fiat dealer to us which is in Adams Morey Southampton.. to get the cooling system levels investigated. Once we were home we booked it in and thanks to them a leaking pipe was corrected.

In the meantime being so fed up with the television issue I contacted Teleco direct, who arranged for us to have it looked at by one of their recommended technicians. This was done and at last the cause was found to be what was suspected, a faulty LNB.

We set out on the 17th August for our 2 week holiday which was paid for some time ago. When we arrived at the first of the campsites booked for 3 nights, once again the buzzer sounded and the red light on the dashboard reading A Transmission fault. This was the same as what had happened the previous time but we assumed it was just a warning.
On Monday the 20th we were booked into a site in Islip Oxford. Within two miles of the site the buzzer sounded and the red light came on. Once again we lost power on a very bad stretch of road. After several minutes we got going again but several times we lost complete power , we were extremely frightened and I telephoned Fiat assist whilst Alan battled to get us to a place of safety as we were on the A34. We were by then only a short distance from the campsite so agreed to try and limp along and they would send assistance to meet us at the campsite. After an horrific last mile we made the campsite and within 20 minutes help as promised arrived. 

It was deemed unsafe to drive , The local fiat dealers refused to take it, so The Assist recommended we take it to our local dealer . The assist contacted our local fiat dealer and we were advised to wait till morning as there was no guarantee that the recovery low loader needed would get us there before they closed.

Next day we packed up the vehicle and emptied the tanks. We then found an excessive amount of water in the kitchen area soaking the carpets. It seemed to be coming from beneath the sink housing. Also one of the stays appeared to be loose with trouble getting it to retract.

Once again I telephoned Premier who suggested a pipe separation behind the sink housing was probably the cause. We told her of our present situation and that we were being taken to the fiat dealership. She suggested we make an agreed time to get the outstanding issues rectified. The date given was the earliest being the 20th September. I have since been able to change that to the 19th as we are in fact supposed to be away on the 20TH September. Thanks to Lisa who has promised to get it in sooner if she has a cancellation.

Again I contacted Lowdhams as the dealer who sold the vehicle and told them it was there responsibility. They offered no help but suggested we keep in touch with regards to the situation with the Fiat dealers.No matter that our paid for holiday was being disrupted.

As of today we still have no idea what the problem is with the engine side of the vehicle. I have seen posts by Sonesta that describes the power loss of their van identical to our problem.. I do hope we will be back on the road sooner than they were. I did ask Lowdhams if we could have a loan van, but no joy.

At the moment we are extremely despondent, where do we go from here?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Take it back and camp on their forecourt. Depending on their help or otherwise stick a large notice in the windscreen saying how you feel.

Ray.


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

I would write a stiff letter to Lowdhams and reject the vehicle due to "not fit for purpose", "unmerchantable quality" etc etc. Lay out all the faults both rectified and outstanding and demand your money back, or THEY come to collect, leave you a suitable replacement, and give you written assurances that all defects have been rectified. You can then write again saying you reserve the right to claim your full purchase price back, plus expenses, if any more faults develop.
I think you have been very tolerant thus far with them and they seem to be doing nothing to help you.


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Take it back and camp on their forecourt. Depending on their help or otherwise stick a large notice in the windscreen saying how you feel.
> 
> Ray.


We sent an email to Geist telling them that we were going park in the middle of the main road outside the dealers, lock the MH up and walk away. The following day someone from Geist arrived and went through our list of problems, including holes drilled through the ceiling. We had no more contact from the dealer, and Geist arranged for it to be repaired at Camper Uk, who did a good job.
If we ever buy a new MH again, we would not stand any nonsense, it is the dealer that sold you the vehicle, threaten them with hell fire and damnation and stand your ground.


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

100k and still all those problems. Stuff messing about with those idiots, get yourself some legal advice. It's amazing what impact a letter from a solicitor can have. Don't forget to claim for your legal fees too.


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## TIM57 (Feb 11, 2012)

Take it back to the supplier and leave it there with a list of snags.
Contact Dethleffs directly, I think they would get it all sorted.
Tim


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*Dethleff's*

We would take it back Ray, that's if it was going. Still waiting for fiat to come up with a solution.

We have spoken with a solicitor, but were advised to go to Trading Standards near the Lowdham dealership. Hum cant see much happening there.

I have written to Dethleffs, but of course they are closed for the holidays throughout August.
We did get an email answer that we will be contacted after the 3rd September 2012.

Anyone wanting to go to Twinwood this weekend we have tickets and an RV CAMPING SPOT ALL BOOKED AND PAID FOR, My wife is gutted, she has been looking forward to going all year. Suggested we try and find a hotel, but not the same as being on site.

Thanks for everyone's interest and replies. Friends of ours said they had a problem with a boat, they wasted 3 months trying to get promised work fixed. In the end they went to the next boat show where the dealer had a stand and voiced their opinions very loudly. At last they got the response they wanted with a promise of the repairs as they were hustled away,

Think we will be going to this years motorhome show where we first saw and ordered the van, Maybe creating a scene at the Lowdhams and Dethleff's stand will get us some results and recompense for this lost holiday. We are at the Lincoln show in September so may do the same their, that's if we have it back by then.

Watch this space.


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

You MUST deal with Lowdhams, that is who you have your contract with. As I said earlier, strongly suggest you get that letter in post to MD/CEO/Owner and give it to them both barrels.


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

what a sad tale to tell, I can only imagine how you are feeling right now, I wouldn't be anywhere near as patient as you that I'm sure. 

as most of the above have indicated you must deal solely with the people who took your money, no one else. 

Get yourself proper legal advice it's a £100k problem you have got there, not a trifle.

I'd also try a scattergun approach to each and every TV station, radio station, newspaper or magazine that will listen to you. Stir it and stir it good!!


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

Unbelievable......

You would think that in the age of web reviews and the mere fact that you parted company with so much money, they would check the vehicle, recheck and before you arrive, do a final check

Cant imagine buying a top marque car and recieving that kind of customers service, they would be crawling all over you with thanks and appreciation.

The Customers Service from this company is dreadful and a lot of MH's after reading your column, will be avoiding them like a plague, and rightly so

I do hope they read these comments and act accordingly, and with a bunch flowers, and a box of chocolates, and a bottle of fine wine...and a complete going over of the motorhome... dont hold your breath though

Norrie

P.S just googled it and it's a lovely vehicle, wishing you all the very best health to enjoy it


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*Dethleff's*

Thanks everyone for the support. I have sent a copy of the write up on here detailing the complaint and sent it to Dethleff's. Maybe they can push Lowdhams to act, once they are back off holiday of course.

I am also going to send it to all the motorhome magazines that I can,

When you buy a vehicle you are told the after sales service is first class.

There has to be something better than each time being given a slot 6 weeks away especially on a new vehicle.

We have had loads of compliments on the vehicle, it is a fantastic looking bit of kit, Just a pity all issues have reared their ugly heads.


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

I sympathize with your problem, as all have said, the first line of attack is with the company that sold it to you. They fix the problems and claim it back from the makers. I to had teething problems with mine ( not in your price range ) and Johns Cross motor homes fixed all without batting an eyelid, or even questioning it. Guess where my next motorhome will be bought from?

Good luck with solving the problems.

Bob


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: Dethleff's*



geordiebetts said:


> Thanks everyone for the support. I have sent a copy of the write up on here detailing the complaint and sent it to Dethleff's. Maybe they can push Lowdhams to act, once they are back off holiday of course.
> 
> I am also going to send it to all the motorhome magazines that I can,
> 
> ...


Geordiebetts, I live about 4 miles from Lowdham and know the dealership well. At one time they had an excellent reputation, unfortunately they seem to have gone the way of other organisations which expand and then forgot that it was customers who enabled them to grow.

My son's father in law has bought caravans from them and is scathing about their service levels. He took his caravan in for a job they said they would easily do the same day and pick it up later - actually returned to him six days later.

Other posters are quite correct, your contract is with Lowdhams and you need to proceed forcefully against them. You will probably remember that their entrance is slightly back from the main road, in your case I would park your locked vehicle across their entrance and refuse to move it until handed a confirmatory letter from them that they will deal with the problems arising out of the habitation side of the vehicle within 14 days failing which they will accept that the vehicle is not fit for purpose.

If this happened to me I would reject the vehicle, get a refund and buy one from Camper UK who would treat you properly.

Hope you get it sorted without too much aggravation.

Mike


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Since my previous post I have had a look at the last set of published accounts:

Share capital: £3 (that is not a typo)
Loans and overdrafts: £1,060,813
Shareholders funds: -£908,000

If it was my problem I would be acting immediately.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*dethleffs*

Thank you Javea if and when we get it back on the road we shall act and take it up there. In the meantime I will make them aware that I have sent a copy of my complaint to Dethleffs and will continue to lobby everyone I can.


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## Glen432 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

I used to work for the local paper before retiring, they might be very interested in this:

Nottingham Evening Post 
phone 0115 948 2000 and ask for news desk.

Phil


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

At the Malvern Show we were looking at the Dethletts motorhomes on Lowdams pitch with a view to buy, that was a close call, we have now changed our minds and will Lowdams a wide berth and stick with a reputable dealer like West Country Motorhome or John Cross.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Shocking, heard lots of bad reports about them, whats worse is I think they are new Hymer dealers  

Paul.


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

Here's an idea, which may or may not be a good one. I notice that the Lowdhams website has a 'contact us' option. Why don't we mount a sort of email 'class action' by each sending them a message via their website asking them whether they'd seen the negative publicity their treatment of this customer is causing?

If enough of us do this, that might - just might - embarrass them into doing what they should have done from the first: get this disgraceful situation sorted out.

Might do no harm to email Dethleffs head office, either, to make sure they're aware of the bad name their dealer is rapidly building for them.

I suggest we do neither until geordiebetts gives us the OK or otherwise. In the meantime, the faults encountered, and the dealer's response to them, are appalling beyond words. Both company names are off my list for any future purchase, that's for sure.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Quite honestly, for £100k I'd get my solicitor on the phone and get a letter drafted immediately.

If you haven't got a family solicitor, you can find one through Citizens Advice Bureau or through th Law Society's website:

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor.law

It is serious stuff indeed, and with the vehicle failures I'd be claiming for loss of use and loss of booking fees etc etc ad nauseum.

Did you pay cash or through a finance company or a card? Various options according to how you paid.

The selling agents have a duty of care in respect of Merchandisable Goods, Fitness for Purpose etc etc. but you need to be more aggressive about your dealings with the sellers and Fiat, who have been given more slack than they deserve.

Don't leave it, get onto it asap, you've got time to phone a solicitor now and get an appointment for Tuesday.

Peter


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

I Have now posted on This site , Motorhome fun, Practical Motorhome and Out and About Live. so that's four sites. I think it's only a matter of time before Lowdhams get the idea I am not happy. In fact Mike I think I will send them a copy of my post myself, any help from anyone will be gratefully received.
Thanks everyone.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

We note all the responses. We contacted a solicitor yesterday who advised our first port of call is the Trading Standards Office for that area.. 

I was advised that involving solicitors will be quite a long drawn out process.

I have just emailed Lowdhams a copy of my original post and made them aware that I have posted it on four sites plus I have just emailed a copy to MMM Magazine Editor. 

I am hoping of all hopes that they respond in a more favourable way especially if they see the support coming our way .


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*LOWDHAMS*

WELL!!!!! Just received a call from Lowdhams they are going to speak to the fiat Dealers right now and suggest once it's fixed we shall have to take it up to Nottingham for all the repairs.

I shall keep you all informed of our progress.

Surprising what you can do when you stop being Mr Nice Guy.


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

Considering all the hassle you have had wouldn't it be a nice gesture of good faith for them to collect it from the Fiat Dealer and take it to their workshop, fix things and return it to you. It's the least they could do.


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

That's all well and good, but do yourself a big favour, get a letter in the post logging everything that has gone wrong so far, those items that have been fixed and those outstanding. Finish by saying you have lost all confidence in the dealer and the motorhome, that it isn't fit for purpose or of merchantable quaility, and that you reject it and demand a full refund of monies paid, plus out of pocket expenses. All that has happened so far is that the dealer has offered to look at it once the engine side has been sorted out. What if the engine side can't be sorted out, or is an intermittent problem which could reoccur months later??
If you do have to give them the chance to rectify all the concerns, then you must demand a written report on everything they do and give them a strict timescale and a replacement vehicle. 

Sorry to say, but I think you have been far too tolerant so far and they are taking advantage of you.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*LOWDHAMS*

Well it's all happening. Fiat have phoned. Apparently a pipe put through the body work by the coach builders into the front section of the cab, was not insulated nor was it capped( WHATEVER THAT MEANS) There the wiring has rubbed /burnt away leaving it arching making the sensors come on. This is now Dethleff's problem. On discovering this they want the recovery and the work they have done paying?

Lowdhams have asked that the fiat dealers do a temporary repair, and the vehicle is taken back to Nottingham. We have refused to drive it , and informed them that we do not want the vehicle back.

They will discuss it after the Bank holiday. Gee Thanks!!!


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Good to hear that things are starting to move in the right direction, keep the pressure on!

Peter


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

It was only right that we take it to fiat as it is a fiat engine under fiat warranty, Now that we know it is Dethleff's fault, they are the ones that need to sort this mess out due to their bad workmanship with this issue plus the other issues,

Lowdhams were still responsible in sorting out all these other issues out there.

We loved that Dethleff's van and waited since October 2011 to take delivery. I can only hope they do the right thing and lend us a van of comparable quality . remove all the additional extras we have added and give us a nice Brand new one.

We shall spend the next week removing all our goods and chattels ready for the big off. I shall also have to cancel the 3 trips in September all ready booked and paid for plus the one trip in October. WHAT A BLOODY WASTE!!!!


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Stick with it Geordiebetts
You have had a torrid time with shocking treatment from the dealer
Given the cost of the MH an equal value spend in a car dealer would have had them falling over you had there been similar warranty problems
Do not be charmed by smiles and cheese from the dealer after the bank holiday. Tell them where to stick it and get a refund
If I were you I would look for a replacement via a different dealer
All the best


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm not rubbing salt into the wound Geordie, but there is a strong conviction on here that Continental, and especially German motorhomes are far superior to British made ones.

However, I have noticed recently a fair number of complaints about German vans. Is this an indication that they are going the same way as all the others?

Our van is very well built now, but it wasn't until I joined the workforce!! :roll: The basic materials and equipment are fine, but the care and attention to detail in the build left a lot to be desired!

Sounds as if you have suffered from a similar malaise, only with far more serious consequences. Best of luck - and stand firm by your decision.

Dave


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

I can't find the thread now but Sonesta had a similar problem with the mechanical side of her vehicle, no problems with the habitation side. Camper UK loaned her a new vehicle for her to use whilst Burstner built a replacement.

Now is the ideal opportunity for Lowdhams to demonstrate a similar level of customer service and I sm sure you will point this out to them.

Good luck with your fight - right is on your side!

Mike


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

I'm the first to realise that this is a busy time for dealers but when your paying £100,000 for a Motorhome you'd think that you would get a better response than having to wait weeks to have faults rectified that should have been picked up on a pdi ,I do hope that you get these problems sorted quickly,this should be sorted in a timely manner or you want a refund and you need to make this clear to the dealer,don't be fobbed off with excuses like "we don't build them" your contract is with the dealer that took your money.


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## TJ101 (Oct 12, 2008)

tyreman1 said:


> your contract is with the dealer that took your money.


100% as above


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

Sent an e mail tonight with a post from MHF and this was their reply to me

Hello Mr -----------, thank you for your message.

Please be assured we are aware of this complex situation and are in dialog with the customer and suppliers concerned trying to resolve it.

At this point, we prefer not to comment in the public domain.

Regards

Chris Gage

So at least he knows this very unusual set of circumstances is now going around the UK like a whirlwind..thanks to MHF

Keep badgering them...

Norrie


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*LOWDHAMS*

NORRIE

Well got to say If we ever get to met up. I owe you Mate. A great big thanks to you. . Hopefully we shall get somewhere now. Alan


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## nigee (Aug 23, 2012)

*lowdhams*

Hi we have just brought a motor home from lowdhams last week not paying as much as you but a lot for us , we had a date to collect on the thursday after our holiday to France only to get there at the correct time ,only to find the salesman not there and the motor home not ready , after a lot of hart ache and shouting from me we drove off with our van at six that evening , lots of things wrong with the van , so have booked it in three weeks time from now as thats the soonest they could fit us in , still havnt had a courteous call from our salesman , shocking service i hope you get your van sorted


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

geordiebetts said:


> We note all the responses. We contacted a solicitor yesterday who advised our first port of call is the Trading Standards Office for that area..
> 
> I was advised that involving solicitors will be quite a long drawn out process.
> 
> ...


Knowing Trading Standards , if they decide to get their teeth into your problems Lowdams will s--t themselves ( for want of a better expression ) , but as said many times your port of call should always be with the supplying dealer using the "Sale of Goods Act ". Unfortunately there are a lot of bad Motorhome and Caravan Dealersout there the manufactuers are only too glad to have someone sell their products and don't seem to have any control over the dealers ,unlike Car and Truck dealerships ,I am so sorry to hear of your problems and hope these will be resolved soon .

TonyA.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi Nigee. We have been slated by one or two but we know exactly how you feel. For three months we have had to put up with a van that has had issues that we have accepted as teething problems. It has gone beyond that know. If you have to resort to naming and shaming them ,it is a bad state of affairs. Cant understand how you managed to get a 3 week slot when ours was 6 weeks. (just joking) Still if this gives them a bloody good shake up, then it's what they deserve.

It's just a shame that we have to resort to this. But Thank God For Motorhome Forums. They have done wonders and are worthy of our membership.


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## mikkistash (Mar 27, 2010)

So sorry to hear of your problems it is pi$$ poor service from lowdhams. I am also having issues with them regarding a shower wall on a 2 year old van that has cracked. They don't seem to give a toss once they have yor cash. maybe i will do the same and email saying I am posting on all the forums about poor service. Keep fighting and if we all keep on at them and telling them that the web is a powerful tool for making people aware of the service they are receiving they may do something about there company.??? Good luck and keep us posted.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*LOWDHAMS*

Thanks everyone. After another sleepless night I am off to the fiat dealers to start removing all our personal items. At the same time I shall collect the photos of the damage to the wiring.

We shall then have to wait till Tuesday to see what the next step is.

The After sales manager Kindly informed us that he was on holiday from last night. Not much consolation when we should of been too.

My only advice to anyone thinking of buying a Motorhome, would be too join all the Motorhome sites they can. Not only for advice but for the support of all the members in times of need. We can not thank you all enough for standing with us when it counts. Through out all this experience we have been given strength in numbers, and been offered hope when we thought there was none. Now we know we are not fighting alone, we shall continue to pursue the right outcome.

I shall keep you all informed of our progress.

Alan and Marilyn


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## Auricula (Aug 13, 2012)

This post should be kept right up there on the first page.

It's so important that all dealers see how NOT to deal with their customer.
And how the customer should not let lazy dealers get away with rubbish, uncaring customer service.

Whether its a sale at £10k or £100k the principle is the same.

Keep the pressure on!


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

*lowdhams*

Had an email from Dethleffs Owners club , of which we are members. I have given them all the info, so I hope they will be able to help to.

We really appreciate every ones support. The best thing we ever did was to become members of the Motorhome groups.

We were booked into the Lincoln show with this group. We wonder if we will get their now. In the three months we have had the van we have spent all of 12 nights in it. The majority of our booked events were , the 2 weeks we should of been away now. The Victory show, the Lincoln show. Stoke bruerne at War followed by Pickering, Looks like we will have to cancel them all now. All booked months ago and paid for.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

I feel for your problems, must be heart-rending to spend all that money on a new dream motorhome only to have all these problems then have salt rubbed in the wounds by being treated like this, must be a nightmare for you.

I notice in amongst all the flannel on the AfterSales page of Lowdham's website, they boast of being approved by both the Caravan Club and the Camping & Caravanning Club. 

You might like to make both of those fully aware of your problem since this situation affects their reputations too, by association . . .


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## HyFy (Dec 26, 2010)

*"After sales" is an industry problem or so we are*

We are really sorry to see your problems but we have experienced similar issues with a new Auto-Trail via Chelston.

The handover was again rushed and half of the extras we ordered had not been fitted. Perhaps in advisedly we accepted the vehicle and were then told that we would have to wait some three weeks at least for their half of the contract to be completed. We said that if that was going to be the case we would be passing with the vehicle in the company of Trading Standards. That moved them to collecting the vehicle the next day from our home and having things done by the end of the week!!

We then took the vehicle to France (intending Spain also) but had to return after the list of issues got past 4 pages of A4. Apparently we are not supposed to expect a water level indicator to indicate a water level be it waste or fresh. We are also not expected to expect a battery capacity indicator to indicate a battery capacity... The second leisure battery had not been allowed for in the system. The fridge/freezer was not up to it's cake and milk. Thing were dropping off trim-wise...

They asked for the vehicle for 5 days. but then said that the suppliers would be on annual shut-down and so we could not expect replacement parts etc etc...

On advice we gave then 21 days and used the words: "We are anxious to give your reasonable opportunity to rectify..." They got the message and involved Auto-Trail and their suppliers in the operation. If they don't do the business after a "reasonable opportunity" you are perfectly entitled to take it to another organisation to have all of the issues corrected and seek redress from your dealer. I've done that in the past with a car and got judgement in the County Court at no cost to me...

Yes - they then took note and I found myself dealing with the directors and Auto-Trail.. BUT I was sadly disappointed to find that a lot of my complaints were replied to by "That is as good as it will get." The "Upper 20's fuel consumption that turns out to be very low 20's will be as good as it will get. The rubbish water level and battery level indicators are as good as they will get. Yes I got the fridge/freezer changed and I have yet to find if it is any better. Yes I got the GPS etc head changed but now find that other features on the audio system have disappeared. I emailed Armour Automotive the manufacturers directly but you've guessed it, THEY ARE ON A LONG SUMMER BREAK. How very French!

I basically have come to the idea that the vehicle has been built to a price and sod the buyer...

Keep on at the dealer. Mention Contracts. Mention Trading Standards. Etc etc.

Bon Courage

But I simply think that this is an industry problem. They sell vehicles as fast as they can to people who are in a greater proportion in the later years of their lives and they won't complain adequately enough to get things corrected. They can't keep up with the delivery schedules. I have been amazed when speaking to other new camping car owners and what they put up with and what they accept. They let the rest of us down because the industry lowers it's standards to their level.

And then listening to other customers in the after sales waiting room at Chelston - Well we now know where the lack of after sales capability comes from. If that is what their customers will accept there is no hope for those of us who want value and attention for money.

HyFy


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

While I don't disagree with what HyFy says, where does one draw the line? That's the difficulty I perceive. :roll:

Major faults aside *(<<<< please take note of that bit!! :roll: )* what do I do about a string of relatively minor niggles and tweaks that I can quite easily do myself, so avoiding several expensive 50 mile round trips . . . _*and *_ensuring that the jobs are done properly and at my convenience?

One idiot on here a couple of years ago _(non-subscriber - five stroppy posts then vanished!! 8O )_ was taking his van back to the dealer to demand that several of those tiny plastic screw-head covers were re-attached after they had fallen off . . . and he was intending to "_Give the dealer some welly_!!"

What a total pillock . . . but where should we set the balance between accepting crap workmanship and bleating about monumental trivia??

Dave


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree Zebedee. Unfortunately none of the issues we have had are Trivia. There is a long process in getting work done with Dethleffs. First you must take it to the dealer so they can see what the problem is, secondly you then have to wait for Dethleffs to agree to the work being done, Great if their not on holiday, you then have to wait either for parts or the repair to be done, and that's if you can get it booked it in. It's the waiting for the dealers to be able to look at it and then the wait for it to be seen and repaired.

In the case of the leather seating being oversized, falling off the bases, warping the cupboard door etc As you can see from the day of collection we raised that issue. As of yet permission has not been given for them to be altered to the correct size. Perhaps that is Trivia, but when you cant sit on them because they either fall off or push the cupboard door open is rendering them useless. I have all ready put a cabin hook on the cupboard door to hold it up. Unfortunately this was after it came open with quite a lot of force and caught my wifes ankle. I wished I had taken pictures of the swelling and bruising she suffered.

Also it was because of this lengthy procedure we contacted Teleco direct, which gave us at least the use of the 2 televisions. Not bad considering it was the 10th of August by that time. Unfortunately my wife suffered crushed and cut fingers, resulting in a hospital visit due totally to an unfortunate accident when the Teleco Technician slid his heavy van door shut no realising my wife had her hand there. The poor bloke was so apologetic, A complete accident./ I could say that if the tv's had been working then it would never of happened. 

This all amounts to adding the icing on the cake, not forgetting all the other issues. 

The after sales problems need rethinking by the dealers. A long wait is totally unacceptable. After all we brought the Motorhome for our enjoyment not sufferance. The total lack of apathy by the dealers once they have your money is inexcusable,. Lowdhams refer to you as being part of their family when you buy from them. That must make us the BLACK SHEEP THEN!!!


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## HyFy (Dec 26, 2010)

*Plastic screw "zitts"*

Yes Zebedee...

...that was one of our minor but annoying gripes. They came up with a very good and effective solution and covered them with small circles of matching veneer. You simply can't see them at all now and they won't fall off!!

If they can't get the simple things right what price the more difficult issues.

I personally can't "self-fix" the fact that the water level indicators are simply a con and a load of rubbish. Why have a waste level indicator that apparently reads 75% - 50% - 25% and empty when in fact the technology in the tank/system is only capable of saying it's empty or full and nothing in between.

The systems are made to a price and that is the industry's problem.

Notwithstanding the issues we still have, we will go out and enjoy the vehicle but the dealer and Auto-Trail will be under no illusion that we don't think it does what it says on the box and we paid a lot of money for the thing in the box. We are entitled to complain.

HyFy


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: Plastic screw "zitts"*



HyFy said:


> Yes Zebedee...
> ...that was one of our minor but annoying gripes. They came up with a very good and effective solution and covered them with small circles of matching veneer. You simply can't see them at all now and they won't fall off!! HyFy


You didn't take the van back just to have those fixed though, did you? :wink:

As I said just now, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, nor being unsympathetic. I was asking a straightforward question, which may be very important if the industry is ever to turn out a better product.

A lot depends on how handy, knowledgeable and willing each individual is . . . but mostly it depends on how serious the problems are. I would (did) not bother to go back for trivial matters - *but should I have done so in order to put pressure on the van builders, to make them pay attention to detail and get it right first time??*

That's the real question I think.

Dave


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Zebedee I think that answer is yes

When we bought the Hymer in 2002 9months old privately in Germany, the original owner, then on his 5th Hymer, went direct to the factory, (fortunately he didn't live far) with a list of 32 small items that needed fixing. Only things like the hinges in the upper cupboards needed filing, as rough edges had caught all his jumpers and pulled threads, things like that, he did show me the list at the time, all we're fixed, BUT has it improved things? I doubt it, as a loyal customer he got sorted quickly. 

Unless we. Old all do that, I can't see the system improving

Having said that, as you know we ordered our Rapido in Germany and just after it was due to go out of warranty, we had a SPLIT water tank, again Rapido were on annual holiday, so we had to wait until 23 Aug to phone them for help. They couldn't have been more supportive, they said. It isn't out of warranty yet is it? Think carefully before you answer.... You don't want to go back to Germany do you? No. They took one off the production line, couriered it to Wokingham and arranged for them to do it the following Tuesday (it being a Bank Holiday in UK) as we had a tunnel booking for later that afternoon. It was done with grace and help all along. 

It isn't therefore only the dealers that are important in our choices, but also the manufacturers. 

I do hope this mh gets fixed soon, but I think I would be wanting a full refund, and compensation for my costs to date, and go elsewhere and probably a different model. Or a complete new one to pick up yourself from the factory. 

Best of luck

Carol


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I think if I experienced what you have, I'd read this carefully ten times over, then decide what to do. Note the 6 months point.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/

Dave


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Zebedee, quality assurance is exactly what it say's.
If they can't get the simple things that you can see right, then what's happening to the things you can't see?
If all the items that make up a motorhome are fitted correctly to a proper quality standard then there's a good chance that they will stay that way. Obviously with a moving and flexible structure things may become loose in time and periodic maintanance will see to this.

I'm absolutely baffled that the manufacturers turn over new motorhomes to the dealers with numerous faults which are not always picked up by the dealer.
In my view the dealer is on hand to make sure everything is clean and set up correctly for the customer to collect.

When spending £100K and the motorhome is absolutely full of faults, it's just outrageous and morally wrong.

I think the things which you say are trivial are in fact extremely important to increase the quality of the products we all spend a fortune on


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

bigbazza said:


> I think the things which you say are trivial are in fact extremely important to increase the quality of the products we all spend a fortune on


Can't disagree at all Baz - but you know what I meant by "trivial".

Dave :wink:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm afraid the market drives quality standards, up and down. Take Mercedes cars. For years up to the late 90s, the quality of the design and build were exemplary, so much so that this played through into low leasing costs, as near a metric as you can get to representing through-life costs, overall value-for-money if you like. For the market the brand played into, the consequence of high capital cost was acceptable. But as soon as the beancounters wanted increased volume and market share, the demand for a plethora of new models in the showroom put paid to quality, which nose-dived. The market share and sales temporarily increased, until people realised why pay more for something of average quality, and the brand suffered badly. They are still getting back out of it.

The distinction between on the one hand high capital outlay, but great design and build quality, longevity and good value through life, and on the other low capital outlay but pay to solve problems later, also applies to motorhomes.

Unfortunately an increasing number of brands, and I would put Dethleffs among them, see the market prepared to pay 6 figure sums for motorhomes and want some of that themselves. They give it a"reassuringly expensive" price, showroom appeal and rake it in. But the bottom line is they are no Phoenix, Concorde, NB or the better Hymers, and owners will only learn of the difference the hard way once the showroom memories fade and the experiences of daily use dominate. I hope they still think they got a value van.

In the PVC market, Murvis are expensive in capital outlay, but I can say in 7 years of use there have only been 2 irritations, both to do with the Fiat base vehicle. It has never been back to Murvi, nor any other motorhome dealer. Murvi only tweak their design gradually over the years, which mean build quality is exemplary.

By and large, you get what you pay for, but:
1) Don't associate high capital cost with poorer value-for-money through life, but also;
2) Beware aspirational marques - are they more than a reassuringly expensive Stella Artois who have just scrimped 8% on alcohol content and hope no-one will notice as they pocket the greater profits.

Dave


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## robinpompey (May 7, 2011)

I was lucky to purchase my motorhome from Edgehill Motorhomes in Mansfield. There service has been second to none in the UK. I purchased my vehicle in May 2011 and they gave me tons of accessories because I had never camped or done caravanning before. Since that date Paul (father) and Lee have taken this newbee through numerous problems that I have encountered, nothing serious just no previous knowledge. The difference from Lowdhams cannot be more different. When I asked how long the takeover of the vehicle would take, Lee said we put all day aside to acquaint you with the vehicle.

I had the misfortune to use Lowdhams to fit a SOG to the motorhome. It was fitted incorrectly and when I complained to the service manager he said what do you expect nobody is trained in motorhome engineering. You get what they produce, which is substandard. 

If you want a good service and you live in the midlands you can do no better than using Edgehill Motorhomes. I have to thank my wife for using this dealer as she saw the motorhome advertised and we went to see it from Leicester.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

DABurleigh said:


> But as soon as the beancounters wanted increased volume and market share, the demand for a plethora of new models in the showroom put paid to quality, which nose-dived.


I must disagree. The beancounters are exactly that - they count the beans. The decision to sell lower priced vehicles at (an almost inevitable) lower quality was not made by the accountants. It was made by the senior management who believed, rightly or wrongly, that the consumer was not prepared to pay a premium for the additional quality that a Merc represented. If anything that decision was influenced - if not made - by the marketing people.


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

How things change! We bought our new Dethleffs from Lowdham's just over 6 years ago. It went back once for 2 jobs to be done - phoned one day, took it in the next day, both jobs were done within 2 hours.  

Since then, apart from service costs and a wheel bearing change - obviously down to Fiat - I have spent nothing on repairs to the Dethleff bit. 

We are at the budget end of the Dethleff market - it was a show room model and discounted to £26k OTR. 

I just hope that they sort it out to your satisfaction!


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## HyFy (Dec 26, 2010)

*Industry issue*

I think that my main point was to raise the fact that there may be an"Industry issue" here. I am not going to try to excuse our dealers from their responsibility, but if the industry is bent on providing rubbish because they get the idea that they can get away with it then we need to ensure as customers that we won't accept such a product. When the dealer says that "that's as good as it's going to get" and that's not what it says on the box then why do we accept that and walk away.

Why can't I get something replaced in August because the factory/supplier is on a total shut-down? That is so French: "malheureusement c'est auôt..." and how many times have I heard that. Maybe they think in the UK arm of the industry that because the French have a say in the industry we/they/the UK arm should shut down just like the French for four weeks and the customers should just accept that they are not even going to be obliged by an acknowledgment to an email during the sacred month. Who do they think they are? If I could find another supplier to provide what I am expecting from *Armour Automotive* then I would go to them and pay the cost. The service they provide for the money they get is simply not acceptable.

HyFy

PS The original "head" from Arnour Automotive was faulty in a number of ways and the replacement is also faulty; not just in some of the original ways but also in some new ones...


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

In response to we should of taken it back to get those thing fixed Zebedee. Perhaps you have not read our post correctly.

From the very first trip out we told them of the initial faults. Unfortunately more faults showed them selves as the weeks went on.. These jobs like the Tap have to be ordered, it was sheer luck that it came in on our 2nd August appointment. The fact that it was the wrong one,was another problem. So all though the tap is now in and I was notified by letter, but also By premier on the 20th August when we phoned them of our present trouble. They said well lets fix a date for that now which the only time available was the 20th September. Another 4 and a half weeks away by this time the kitchen had flooded which was suggested may be a separation of pipes behind the units.

So ok now we have no power, and no facility to have any water on board even if they had managed to get the van running again what were we supposed to do for the rest of our holiday plus the 2 events weekends we had booked for September before the work was done?

The biggest issue is of course the problems we have encountered with the van, but the fact of the time scale that after sales warranty work takes to be brought in is unacceptable. 

It took us a long time to find the right van that suited our needs, Before we purchased we made sure that any warranty work could be carried out if necessary at the nearest dealer to us which happens to be premier which is 50 miles from us . Lowdhams is 200 miles from us , but make no mistake if they had offered to take it in to do the work sooner we would of taken it there.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

geordiebetts said:


> In response to we should of taken it back to get those thing fixed Zebedee. Perhaps you have not read our post correctly.


I did Geordie, and you have my sympathy.

Mine was more of a general query though. I wasn't referring to you personally at all, but I and lots of others I guess, have done our own tweaks, adjustments and repairs if we were capable and the faults were not too serious.

I was asking, _"Should we have done that, or should we complain to the dealer about everything, in the hope that pester power would make them complain in turn to the manufacturers."_

I think maybe you misunderstood my point. Hope that makes it clearer . . . it was indirectly linked to your problem, in asking if we (as consumers) could do anything to reduce in future the occurrence of monumental cock-ups like you are suffering.

Hope you get to enjoy your van soon - or another one like it.

Dave


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Unfortunately there are quite a few owners in your situation no matter what the purchase price is!
Seemingly only new MHs give such problems. Second hand vehicles have normally been sorted.
I frequent a couple of German MH forums and even in their homeland there are problems.
No consolation to you but I wish you the very best of luck.


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

Would I be spending my time repairing a Motorhome that I'd just spent £100,000 on....I don't think so,yes we've probably all fixed dodgy door catches and bits and bobs but the list on the OP's van is absolutely disgusting and if it was mine it would be parked outside the dealers advertising the fact.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

The fact that they are taking it back themselves Tuesday/ Wednesday is probably an indication of the power these Forums have.

I do not believe involving solicitors or trading standards, which we did the former by the way. Trading Standards were on the list for tomorrow. Would have had any greater affect than this and other forums are having.

The support we have had on here has been worth every penny of our membership. We shall not be fobbed off any more. 

Thanks everyone.

We will let you know how we get on


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Stating the obvious here but make sure when you go to pick up your van after repairs you go over it with a fine toothed comb, if you have any motorhoming friends take them with you, it's amazing how many things a fresh pair of eyes will pick up!
While the van is in for repairs 'phone every day for an update on progress, make a nuisance of yourself!
If you're not ENTIRELY satisfied with the work carried out DO NOT DRIVE THE VAN AWAY until you are.
Ask for a full explanation as to the vans power problems and make sure you're satisfied with the answer.
I can only guess as to you're feelings about this, I know I would be absolutely gutted.
I must admit I admire your patience, if it had been me I would have taken the van back and demanded a full refund as the van is definitely not fit for purpose, however we are where we are.(But maybe it's still not too late).

The very best of luck!
Mel.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

When you pay £100,000 for a new van it is supposed to work.

If a brand new van has engine problems as well as all the other matters you mentioned, you don't have to book it in for repairs and wait six weeks / drive it miles away for repairs, 

YOU DID NOT WANT A FAULTY VAN REPAIRED, YOU WANTED A BRAND NEW VAN WHICH WORKS.

I bought a computer once, took it home, it did not work. I took it back and they said they would send it off to be repaired and I said NO. I wanted a BRAND NEW ONE! I didn't want a repaired computer - I would have bought a second hand computer had I wanted one which had been repaired.

Honestly, you should get ALL YOUR MONEY BACK, as the brand new vehcicle you bought immediately did not work and you did not need to accept it, 

Then, once they have completely repaired it, and they offer it for sale as a second hand vehicle on their forecourt, you could, if you wanted to, buy it as a reduced price. 

Or order from a better manufacturer and indeed from a better retailer, one which understands their legal responsibilities. 

Finally, did you oay cash, or did you buy it on credit? If credit, you can claim a refund from the finance company under the consumer credit act, and they can then claim it back from Lowdhams.

Ask for all of your money back and if you don't get it, sue them both.

What a dreadful story.


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

HeatherChloe said:


> When you pay £100,000 for a new van it is supposed to work.


To my mind it doesn't matter if you're paying £10 or £100,000, if it's not fit for purpose then it should be sorted to your satisfaction.


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

As of today , 2 phone calls from Lowdhams, one taken by my wife and one by myself.

The van is being collected tomorrow, and we shall have a visit from Ian to our home to discuss the issues.

There was no apology to either of us. We shall see what happens tomorrow.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

geordiebetts said:


> As of today , 2 phone calls from Lowdhams, one taken by my wife and one by myself.
> 
> The van is being collected tomorrow, and we shall have a visit from Ian to our home to discuss the issues.
> 
> There was no apology to either of us. We shall see what happens tomorrow.


Might be wise to have a third party sitting in with you, just in case 'Mr Nice Guy' is not so nice.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

geordiebetts said:


> As of today , 2 phone calls from Lowdhams, one taken by my wife and one by myself.
> 
> The van is being collected tomorrow, and we shall have a visit from Ian to our home to discuss the issues.
> 
> There was no apology to either of us. We shall see what happens tomorrow.


Just ask for your money back, in full. You are entitled to.


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## nidge1 (Jul 26, 2009)

HeatherChloe said:


> geordiebetts said:
> 
> 
> > As of today , 2 phone calls from Lowdhams, one taken by my wife and one by myself.
> ...


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

I've been following this closely (especially as I was at this dealer on Sat).....Guess I'll be buying mine from Germany.


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

I reckon a third party and record the conversation.
Demand your money back
Kev


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

bigcats30 said:


> I've been following this closely (especially as I was at this dealer on Sat).....Guess I'll be buying mine from Germany.


Don't do that. You'll have no protection.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

You paid a lot of money and presumably expected that you would be getting a perfect vehicle, as we would all agree. It is far from perfect and my experience is that something which starts out with such horrendous problems is going to continue with more of the same in the future.
So do not accept any more excuses - just insist that the only thing you want is the full price paid back in your account - NOW!
Look on the bright side - after this experience you will be able to drive an even harder bargain at a better dealer and next spring you can have an even better and perfect vehicle 
:wink: 

Alan


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

As hard as it might be to hand the van that you have set your hearts on back, I think that this is you're most sensible option.

We bought a brand new Hymer from Madisons about twelve years ago (just before they were taken over by B****hills) and it came with a few problems that were never rectified to our satisfaction.

After a year of hassle including cancelled holidays, writing letters and driving the 400 mile round trip several times to sort things out we finally got everything fixed, but we were never really happy with the van as it had tainted what should have been a happy and exciting experience. We sold the van at a considerable loss a few months later. 
(I should point out that all the faults were due to dealer fit options and not the Hymer itself which was fantastic, we are now on our fourth).

In hindsight we should never had accepted the van in the first place but, having done so and then realising the catalogue of problems involved we should have returned the van as not fit for purpose and demanded a full refund. We could have then gone and spent our money at a dealership that deserved it. (There are some out there) 

Before this goes any further hand the van back and demand a full refund plus your out of pocket expenses, it really is your most sensible option.

I wish you the very best of luck and don't let this put you off 
motorhoming, it's a fantastic pastime.

Mel.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Thanks for those sentiments, with which I agree.

Regrettably it seems the UK culture of vehicle rejection is rather like buying burglar alarms, where the majority are bought after a burglary. 

In other words, individuals are trusting and give the original dealer the benefit of the doubt, ultimately to their cost when it becomes too late or complex to reject. Next time, they are far more streetwise and are prepared to take a harder line to uphold their rights, or at least ensure they avoid like a plague dealers with a poor reputation.

That we don't hear more about problem dealers in this internet sharing age is simply down to the fact that they ensure they buy the silence of the let-down customer in the worst cases. Their business model depends on those having a bad experience not educating others. Their profit and laziness are indulged by ensuring there are plenty more trusting uninformed fodder out there to exploit.

Dave


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I think if I was spending that kind of money (which I never would) I would want to buy the van the same way that I have had to accept projects most of my working life as an NHBC Builder, the customer retains 5% of the total building costs deposited into the Architects customer account for 12 months so any defects have to be completed to the customers satisfaction or it is rectified by another NHBC Builder and the cost is deducted from the 5% retention fee.

Seeing as the 5% is a good part of the profit margin, it really gets your attention and stuff gets fixed smartly :wink: ..

If the dealer doesn't like it go to one that will, that will focus them as well, as I am sure they wouldn't want to lose an 100K sale.

ray.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

DABurleigh said:


> In other words, individuals are trusting and give the original dealer the benefit of the doubt, ultimately to their cost when it becomes too late or complex to reject. Next time, they are far more streetwise and are prepared to take a harder line to uphold their rights, or at least ensure they avoid like a plague dealers with a poor reputation.
> 
> That we don't hear more about problem dealers in this internet sharing age is simply down to the fact that they ensure they buy the silence of the let-down customer in the worst cases. Their business model depends on those having a bad experience not educating others. Their profit and laziness are indulged by ensuring there are plenty more trusting uninformed fodder out there to exploit.
> 
> Dave


IMHO Dave has succinctly summarised a very important point here - we are too ready to take a generous, magnanimous view of the actions of suppliers and assume that they do really have the same interests in the matter that we, as customers, do.
If we step back a little and take a slightly different view the situation might appear a little different!

The dealer's first objective is NOT to have a happy smiling customer - it is to put the maximum profit into his bank. If, in order to do that, he has to appear to be co-operative and offer a good service then he will try to do that, but actually it is not his first priority. It's down to cost effectiveness - he will put in the least cost (time or money) in order to get the sale. 
So when faced with a complaint, which is going to end up costing him money in some way, is it surprising that he tries to avoid the issue and pass the buck?

The customers in my business do not put up with shoddy standards nor do they accept facile excuses or being passed from me to the original manufacturer etc. They want it put right, now! As a consequence I move heaven and earth to make as sure as I can that the thing is right when it is delivered - result is a happy customer, a happy supplier (me) and the basis for a good ongoing relationship.
But that happens because I have a conscience and I realise that it is better to spend a couple of hours making sure it is right rather than risk weeks of agro and frayed tempers and all that brings.

Sorry, rambling on a bit here!
My point is that we are all too ready to assume that the supplier means what he says. Don't assume that - check and query and query again and insist that it is right. And when it isn't, complain, demand and generally be assertive (which does not mean rude, difficult or awkward, it just means insist that you get what you want. Sit across the table and be stubbornly persistent in your position while waiting for the other guy to blink first - he usually does!)
And that goes for everything from a restaurant meal right through to a £100k MH!

Alan

(Currently embroiled in an argument with a kitchen supplier who seems to think that I will accept what they thought would be "good enough" - I will not!)


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

When I came into the motorhome world I was astounded to find that dealers did not want to take any responsibility for the base vehicle. They seem to wash their hands of them and refer you to Fiat or whoever.
I realise that the base vehicle manufacturer may be the only ones with the expertise and knowledge to fix faults and repair them under warranty but I would expect the MH dealer to be responsible for ensurng the vehicle is fixed. I am sure that if dealers and MH conveters had used their muscle on Fiat that the initial problems with the X250 would have been resolved quicker than they were. Instead it was a customer led campaign that made them take action, albeit reluctantly at first.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

While I agree absolutely with the way you do business Alan/Alhod (_and who could disagree!_ 8O ) there's a bit of a paradox in your post.

You affirm that *you *have a conscience and deal with customers accordingly, having just previously stated that *all dealers* are unscrupulous since they are 100% profit motivated!

A bit too much of a generalisation I fear, since I guarantee that not all dealers in your trade are as conscientious and caring as you. Same will be true of motorhome dealers - as in any other occupation where money changes hands.

I do think your way is by far the most sensible though. It obviously costs you a bit from time to time, but how do you put a price on a good reputation and the resulting chain of recommendations from satisfied customers! :wink:

Dave


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

Zebedee said:


> While I agree absolutely with the way you do business Alan/Alhod (_and who could disagree!_ 8O ) there's a bit of a paradox in your post.
> 
> You affirm that *you *have a conscience and deal with customers accordingly, having just previously stated that *all dealers* are unscrupulous since they are 100% profit motivated!
> 
> ...


Thanks for that observation Dave 

I don't see it as a paradox - I see it as me being more intelligent than others :lol:

If you spend the time and money to make sure it's right before the customer gets to see it he thinks you're a good supplier and comes back.
My main aim is to maximise profit same as the next guy - I just like to think I am a little more subtle about it :wink:

Alan
(Alhod is my alter ego :lol: :lol: )


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

alhod said:


> My main aim is to maximise profit same as the next guy - I just like to think I am a little more subtle about it :wink:
> Alan


Subtle or not, it has to be good sound common sense.

Keep the punters happy and they will do the advertising for you!! :wink:

Dave


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

Our meeting today with Ian Brown After Sales Manager from Lowdhams.

We fully explained our problems and issues, we then gave him a letter by hand for the rejection of the vehicle.

We also emphasised the need to review the system for vehicles with issues under warranty.Especially new vehicles. A 6 week wait, was agreed, as not acceptable.

It became clear that Lowdhams have been reading the forum posts. He apologised several times for the situation we found ourselves in.

We have made him aware that a case number has been issued from Trading Standards, who now have all the facts.

Mr Brown has gone back to Lowdhams to talk with the Directors and Dethleffs.

We have outlined what we need to achieve to have a satisfactory conclusion.

It is now up to Mr Brown to come back to us with the correct outcome,

We thank you all for your interest and invaluable advice and hope that when we next post on here , it will be Good News. 

Watch this space.


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

geordiebetts said:


> Our meeting today with Ian Brown After Sales Manager from Lowdhams.
> 
> We fully explained our problems and issues, we then gave him a letter by hand for the rejection of the vehicle.
> 
> ...


And thank you with keeping us updated as it goes along....sadly many people don't.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

The power of the web!! Showing what can be done when people know their rights and are not afraid to exercise them.

Let us hope that LOWDHAMS realise that they have made a complete pig's ear of this and can only salvage something of their reputation by dping the right thing and giving you a full refund and reimbursement of all your costs and lost expenses.

As said already, thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Alan


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

Alan,

Its not only LOWDHAMS that are watching this sad outcome

There are a host of Motorhome Garages watching the outcome of this sorry scenario, they are the ones that are going to be affected, if only because of their poor service, now its a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush

Here's the modern day deal.

I have good money...you have good food...lets do a deal..ok lets eat......

that meal was never worth the price.....but here's the money anyway.

we never argue about it apart from between ourselves and that is where the dealer wins..every time

We need to desperately toughen up...sorry about the rant

Norrie


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well, whether food in a restaurant, or more recently getting quotes from tradesmen, I operate to the same principles.

I will defend to the hilt the freedom of the restaurant to offer poor service or serve poor food, or the tradesman to try it on with a price that bears no relationship to cost and is entirely uncompetitive. But equally, when they do, I will banish them from any future consideration whatsoever, and I will ensure all my family, friends and internet acquaintances know of my experience, if potentially relevant to them.

And motorhomes are no different 

Equally, if anyone wants to know whom I would recommend to the extent that I would GUARANTEE them a good experience, they only have to ask 

Dave


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

geordiebetts said:


> We have outlined what we need to achieve to have a satisfactory conclusion.
> 
> It is now up to Mr Brown to come back to us with the correct outcome.


I hope you asked for your money back.


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to reach your "satisfactory conclusion".

Stand your ground and don't accept their first offer, unless of course it is a full refund plus expenses.

On the point of Ian Brown going back to his directors and Dethleffs, your contract is with Lowdhams, they should sort _you_ out first and then sort out _their_ problems with Dethleffs

We are all on here watching and waiting, so come on LOWDHAMS do the right thing!!

Mel.


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

I agree with Baron1.
Full refund - not fit for purpose
Go for it Georgiebetts


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## Newcampervaners (Aug 30, 2012)

*Good Luck*

Oooh just read all the thread on this, I'm appalled at the treatment and hope you get it sorted. I was going to use them for the purchase of my first motorhome but think I'll go elsewhere. Good luck and thanks for the posts, it helps the rest of us.


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## anneandgeorge (May 1, 2005)

Have been watching this post with interest, as many others have. As you have realised we are all behind you in this. I sincerely hope this is rectified to your full satisfaction. Too many motorhome dealers fob us motorhome buyers off, perhaps they will now realise that in numbers we can make a difference. So sweet and nice when selling to us but how they can change when we go back with a problem. Dealers beware, we will stick together, let's face it , it could be anyone of us next. Whatever we spend on our motorhomes is a lot of money to that person buying and we all look forward to using our new purchase. So upsetting and worrying when things go wrong and dealers couldn't careless.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

So - is no news good news :?: 

Alan


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi All, 

Missed a phone call but received an email with a promise to ring us on Monday afternoon when the 3rd???Option has been put together.

It looks like we shall have to wait till then. We know what we asked for ,so we are intrigued now to see what they are going to come up with.

At least something is happening and Ian Brown looks like he is being true to his word. Once we have heard these options?? we shall let you all know if Lowdhams has been able to redeem themselves. 

Thanks for all your help and interest. The power of these forums are with out doubt very powerful. Can't believe there has been nearly 10,000 visits to this site!!

Geordiex


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

geordiebetts said:


> Can't believe there has been nearly 10,000 visits to this site!!
> Geordiex


I can Geordie - there are a lot of very decent and helpful folk on here, eh? :wink:

I think you may have received less enthusiastic support had you been a non-subscribing first post whinger - since members quite understandably get tired of being "used"! As an established and obviously genuine member you will get all the help we can offer, and rightly so.

Good luck . . . digits crossed! :lol:

Dave


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

3rd option? Perhaps they are going to offer you a brand new van, free of charge to use as you wish for three years before handing it back with no cost to you :lol: :lol: 

Well maybe not! More likely they have dreamed up some bizarre scheme which is supposed to placate you at minimum cost for them - be wary!

Alan


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

alhod said:


> So - is no news good news :?:
> 
> Alan


Not yet, but a "silence" clause there will eventually be. Which ought to tell prospective customers all they need to know.

Dave


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

DABurleigh said:


> alhod said:
> 
> 
> > So - is no news good news :?:
> ...


I was thinking the same thing.......


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

They will have a hard job keeping my missus silent.

Whatever happens the forums deserve to know the conclusion of this saga.
If the right thing is done by us then credit where credits due.

I am sure that the power of these forums has been an eye opener to all the Motorhome and Caravan Dealers out there.

A lesson to be learnt by all.

We unfortunately have had to learn the hard way. If this in any way changes future practices, then maybe something good will come from our misfortune . 

One thing for sure is everyone should join the Motorhome clubs, you never know when you might need them.

Geordie.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Every man - and woman - has their price 

Dave


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Be very interesting to hear what the 3 options are.
No 1 should be, "Who do we make the refund cheque out to?"
No 2 should be "Would you like cash for your out of pocket expenses?"
No 3 should be " As a gesture of goodwill, we would like to offer you £xxx in compensation"


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

geordiebetts said:


> ................ I am sure that the power of these forums has been an eye opener to all the Motorhome and Caravan Dealers out there.
> Geordie.


It has been stated on MHF in the past that they consider us a bunch of moaners.

I find that a very weird way to regard customer feedback but it does explain why you need to use a sledgehammer to get a reasonable response when you have a problem. It also explains why so very, very few dealers ever participate on MHF.



geordiebetts said:


> ................ I am sure that the power of these forums has been an eye opener to all the Motorhome and Caravan Dealers out there.
> Geordie.


I am inclined to think that they knew perfectly well just how many unhappy customers there are. It didn't need a forum to tell them that. I also think that rather than helping you because they are feeling contrite it's almost certain that they feel picked on.



geordiebetts said:


> ................One thing for sure is everyone should join the Motorhome clubs, you never know when you might need them.
> Geordie.


Did a club help you?

Don't take my post a being critical of you Geordie. It's not meant to be. I do hope that you get a fair resolution and that you will be in a position to let us know what the details are.

I also hope that dealers are watching this thread and perhaps realising that customers do have the right to expect to get what they paid for and will use whatever means they can to ensure that they do.

Good luck with it, Alan.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

erneboy said:


> I am inclined to think that they knew perfectly well just how many unhappy customers there are. It didn't need a forum to tell them that. I also think that rather than helping you because they are feeling contrite it's almost certain that they feel picked on.
> 
> .


Alan, I think the fact that their last set of published accounts show shareholder funds of -£908,000 may have something to do with their reaction following the adverse publicity on the sites on which this matter has been published. Clearly they would be keen to avoid loss of sales as they will wish to bring their funds into a positive state. I must admit that I find it strange that their share capital is only £3 - doesn't give one a lot of confidence, does it?

Mike


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## Auricula (Aug 13, 2012)

> I think we should be careful here.
> 
> Accounts information really needs to be considered by qualified people who have access to current financial data.
> 
> ...


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## Auricula (Aug 13, 2012)

What is missing from my post above is:

Accounts information really needs to be reviewed by qualified people. 

I am not trying to be clever or justify the actions of the dealer but i think our colleague's best interests will be served by us confining views (which will be read by the dealer) to service levels and responses.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Mike is conveying facts and speculating on a possible connection. Can't see what's wrong with that. The dealer is of course welcome to correct or make a statement at any time.

I observe that dealers who have been on MHF for a long time enjoy an enviable reputation. So I could speculate that if dealers come on here they improve ;-)

Dave


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## sampain (Aug 27, 2012)

I was exploring getting a Chausson Flash 10 from Lowdhams, I will now walk away.


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## Auricula (Aug 13, 2012)

Ok, I accept that speculating may be interesting in forums such as this but if the inference is that the company is effectively insolvent, that is a very serious matter. 

Accounts information is often dated. It can be qualified and could be read erroneously unless by someone with suitable knowledge.

This "speculation" may well be incorrect and if so it harms our attempt to help Geordiebetts.

That's my take on it.....


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Auricula said:


> Ok, I accept that speculating may be interesting in forums such as this but if the inference is that the company is effectively insolvent, that is a very serious matter.
> 
> Accounts information is often dated. It can be qualified and could be read erroneously unless by someone with suitable knowledge.
> 
> ...


I wasn't speculating, merely quoting figures from the last published set of accounts.

Mike


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Auricula said:


> ...................but if the inference is that the company is effectively insolvent, that is a very serious matter.


You know they would not be trading while insolvent, so there must another interpretation. Perhaps you will share it with us, Alan.


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## jonah999 (Sep 6, 2010)

I had my eye on a 50 grand MH from Lowdhams - No chance now!!!!


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

"It has been stated on MHF in the past that they consider us a bunch of moaners."

I had a sales guy say that to me only last week when I said a certain van had certain criticisms on MHF.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Easier for them to blame someone else, eh?

It seems to me that what some MHF members suffer after handing over many tens of thousands of pounds merits a lot more moaning than the reserved suffering stalwarts most are.

There is an "us" and "them" attitude that still permeates even dealers with a reputation for service. The sign on a Mercedes car dealer's workshop door (facing the mechanics, not paying customers....) read "Problems? We don't have problems. Merely an opportunity for a larger bill!"

Dave


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## anneandgeorge (May 1, 2005)

Let's face it, from the number of motorhomers that we have met, loads of them have had dealers not wanting to sort out problems which should not have occurred in the first place. It is unbelievable how they just want to turn their backs once they have your money. It's not just on this website people are complaining, it's everywhere. It's about time dealers got their act together and realised without us they would not do business. Us motorhomers are a friendly bunch and are always willing to give advice and that includes 'don't buy from ?????????????' It spreads like wildfire. We are their bread and butter. Job done properly - no moaning, easy.

Take note DEALERS.


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

For a business thats open 7 days a week and charges huge sums of money doesn't seem to be alot happening from them. 

I'm sorry I just don't get their mentallity.....I've had problems with my nissan x trail and whilst very annoying the dealer has been fantastic! being very proactive in getting the car in (even offing to come and pick it up as I live 20 miles away) to sort it and never once giving the impression that I'm moaning.

The best bit is I bought it off them second hand and its 4 years old.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think big faults and multiple faults are not so common in the motor trade so it's easier for car dealers to give good service.

Motorhomes are made differently and there is little or no attempt to control the quality of the product. Till the ethos of converters and dealers changes thing will remain as they are and we will keep buying poor products because largely that's all there is.

Even at the premium end of the market things go wrong and are badly dealt with, just not quite so often perhaps, Alan.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

All these posts are completely true and valid but it comes down to one thing which has already been made here several times - whether spending £5,000, £50,000 or £120,000, do not sit back and take the rubbish dished out by the dealers. If you're not happy, say so. If you think you are being rushed or given the bum's rush, slow it down and refuse to go down the path you are being led along. In other words, be assertive - not rude, not loud, not angry but just quietly polite and assertive.

Alan


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

erneboy said:


> I think big faults and multiple faults are not so common in the motor trade so it's easier for car dealers to give good service.
> 
> Motorhomes are made differently and there is little or no attempt to control the quality of the product. Till the ethos of converters and dealers changes thing will remain as they are and we will keep buying poor products because largely that's all there is.
> 
> Even at the premium end of the market things go wrong and are badly dealt with, just not quite so often perhaps, Alan.


The problem is that the dealers do not all ways want to accept responsibility for faullts on the base vehicle, leaving the customer to fight their own corner with Fiat etc. 
If the trade had risen against Fiat then the judder modification on the 2.3 would have been issued sooner and as a recall and not on customer demand.
There are of course honourable exceptions as appears to be the case with sonestas gearbox problem, where Camper UK assummed responsibility for sorting the problem to her satisfaction.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes and till they begin regarding us as customers who are entitled to expect the goods we have bought to do the job they are intended to do things will remain as they are.

Of course we must insist that faults are corrected but in the face of implacable resistance from a dealer or the base vehicle manufacturer or sometimes both with one playing us off against the other that can be very difficult to achieve, Alan.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

rayc said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> > I think big faults and multiple faults are not so common in the motor trade so it's easier for car dealers to give good service.
> ...


How many of the dealers are like Chelston, who are also a Fiat accredited service centre. Not so easy, perhaps for them to pass the buck at least on Fiat base vehicles. But the basic principle remains regardless of that - it is the dealer who supplies the vehicle and under the Sale of Goods Act. The responsibility for "fitness for purpose" rests with them. Any attempt to cloud issues by passing to the base maker is a red herring and not relevant to the core issue.
Alan


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

rayc said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> > I think big faults and multiple faults are not so common in the motor trade so it's easier for car dealers to give good service.
> ...


How many of the dealers are like Chelston, who are also a Fiat accredited service centre. Not so easy, perhaps for them to pass the buck at least on Fiat base vehicles. But the basic principle remains regardless of that - it is the dealer who supplies the vehicle and under the Sale of Goods Act. The responsibility for "fitness for purpose" rests with them. Any attempt to cloud issues by passing to the base maker is a red herring and not relevant to the core issue.
Alan


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

It's not just 'fit for purpose' but it also must be of 'satisfactory quality' and 'as described'.

A vehicle whose power cuts on when you are driving obviously is not of satisfactory quality and you are entitled to your money back. You don't need to accept a repair.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

What a nightmare this has been for you both and I truly hope you get matters resolved soon. It's not acceptable to spend all that money on a brand new motorhome and then discover so many problems and faults with it. I know how frustrating being off the road can be and how many holidays and trips can be ruined and cancelled as a result. To be honest Lowdhams and other dealers need to take a leaf out of Camper UK's book!

For those of you who are not aware of, or who do not remember the problem we had with the comfortmatic gearbox on our Burstner Elegance last year, then to save going over it all again, I've posted a link below to my posts regarding our particular experience. Camper UK (our dealer) were absolutely fantastic to us and it's a pity other dealers do not treat their customers in the same way. They just could not do enough to help sort out the problems we were having with our 1-year-old Elegance and we ended up being given a BRAND NEW Burstner Elegance at NO extra cost to ourselves. In addition to this, whilst we waited for the new motorhome to be built, Camper UK loaned us a BRAND NEW motorhome to use and enjoy in the meantime. It did not just stop there though and they bent over backwards in every way imaginable. May I also point out that Burstner themselves were excellent and supported Camper UK throughout.

Here is the link: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-102455.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=burstner&start=0

Good luck and I hope Lowdhams come up trumps and look after you in the way you and all their other customers deserve.

Sue


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Hey Sonesta

I thought you had emigrated to darkest Africa :lol: :lol:

Sorry to intrude on the thread, just a little blip


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## mikkistash (Mar 27, 2010)

I hope the call you should have got today was what you were after and you can move on and get a van / dealer you deserve.
I will not be recommending Lowdhams at all for anything. I have just been cleaning inside the van and cut my finger, turns out when they fitted the status arial on the wardrobe next to the bed they used screws that are about 1/4inch to long and they have come through the wall and into one of the lockers! Load of crap and don't give a to$$ once they have your money. They are not going to fix my shower wall and have offered very little help with the warranty company. Avoid lowdhams at all costs! 
Regarding camper uk, my mate bought his Arto from them and he says they were awesome before the sale and even better after the sale.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

£100 k I can`t sell a 3 bedoom house for £65 k and that will apriciate in value
Dave p


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Any update Georgiebetts?


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

How many of us are waiting for this?

Better than any tv soap 

:lol: 

Alan


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

I wonder if the OP has been sworn to secrecy in exchange for a deal?


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

Could be, but after all that has been said here and the feelings which have been aroused I think that if a secrecy clause has been imposed it could very well be counter-productive for LOWDHAMS.
If they have actually bitten the bullet and done the honourable thing (which is only what the law obliges them to do, after all) then they should be shouting that from the hilltops. Must be good publicity to say - look, we messed up but we realise we done wrong and have now put it all right. 
With that in the frame I would have confidence to go and talk to them about my next MH. If it's all wrapped up in secrecy the confidence has gone!
Alan


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi All

Sorry we have been offline but we have been busy organising our house move which unfortunately had been in motion prior to our problems with the Motorhome.

I can confirm that talks with Lowdhams has been very productive due to the involvement of Ian Brown. He has been sensitive to our position and has worked with us to get the situation resolved as soon as possible . For that we commend him .

We have been working towards getting the result that is in the best of interests to ourselves, and are just about there.

We are being lent a vehicle, which will enable us to continue with the Holidays we have all ready booked.

So looks like we are going to make the Lincoln Show after all. We look forward to meeting up with the Motorhome facts group we are booked in with.

Alan (Geordie)


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## welsh (Dec 28, 2009)

*are we only ones having after sales problems*

We have just been looking at your post what a nightmare for you both but hopefully you will soon get something sorted we are so glad that they are lending you a van for your holidays hope you have some good news soon

Good Luck Karen Brian


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

geordiebetts said:


> Hi All
> 
> Sorry we have been offline but we have been busy organising our house move which unfortunately had been in motion prior to our problems with the Motorhome.
> 
> ...


Great News!

I'm so relieved for you both and well done Ian Brown for sorting things out for you.

So pleased you are able to still attend Lincoln and we look forward to making your acquaintance.

All the best.

Sue & Gilbert


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## Corkheader (Aug 25, 2008)

I have been watching this thread with interest and have posted elsewhere issues I have had in the past with CI / Trigano warranties and poor design.
This site does have influence and I think we should have some form of award for good design / service or a mechanism for rating manufacturers and retailers. I have suggested this to MHF but didn't receive a reply.

I eventually sold the CI and purchased what I thought was a better vehicle only to find faults with the heating and a water leak. The dealer was very good effecting a number of repairs. After faults reoccured we requested a full refund which was agreed although we did end up exchanging the vehicle for a nearly new Hobby which (touch wood!) is proving to be excellent.

During the course of sorting out our problems I did pick up a few points. The Caravan Club has an excellent and free 24/7 legal helpline if you need advice. Its been mentioned already but I think its worth reiterating; there is a six month ruling. If you choose to reject the goods before six months from purchase the dealer has to prove the vehicle is road worthy. If you reject after six months you the customer have to prove. Bearing in mind the little use MH's have and the length of time it can take to get parts it is worth keeping this in mind. Finally buy local if you can. Its much easier to deal with staff in person. 

The dealer in our case was Freeborns in Godalming and praise where praise is due. They listened and demonstrated a desire to resolve our problems and when it started to drag on they took the vehicle back and would have refunded our money had we not wanted an exchange. Good dealers are out there - just not that many of them.


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

*getting sorted*

I have followed this with interest as have others and I am glad it looks like it is getting sorted

I have had the pleasure of a decent dealer sales and support in West Country Motorhomes with after sales service every bit as good if not better the pre sales etc.

I would also like to endorse Sonesta's comments ref: Campers UK, I had the misfortune of a frenchman atacking the front of my Voyager a while ago and the camper was sent to Campers UK for repair etc, Alan pickering and the team there did a first class job keeping me updated at all times, I highly recommend them to anybody also.

There are dealers that care !

Regards


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Any news Geordiebetts ???


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## geordiebetts (Oct 29, 2010)

SO sorry we did not get to the Lincoln show after all, Due to an unco-operative solicitor with our purchasers buyer, our house sale exchange of contracts was not done until the 18th of September, as it was supposed to of been 2 weeks before with completion on the 15th we were then urged to complete by the 21st of that week, so the weekend was forfeited for the big move. We have been in the new house for a week now and are just about settled. 

In the meantime we are pleased to add that we are now happy with the outcome of our negotiations with Ian Brown.

We look forward to being back on the road when we receive our new van that we have ordered this week for an April /May delivery .

Regards to you all.

Geordie


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