# New rules post brexit



## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46564884!


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The important thing to recognise here is that it’s not JUST the U.K. that will be subject to this charge, it’s being applied to ALL Non EU citizens. Also it’s not an “Every trip” charge, it lasts for 3 years.

However there is no information about what the procedure is if you wish to stay longer than 90 days. That condition will only apply to a very small number of travellers, unfortunately that will be mostly us “chuggers and tuggers”

Currently we have to pay to visit the USA etc anyway.

Andy


----------



## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

It also says everyone between 18 and 70 must have one. As it also says there will be a big demand for anyone with irish decendants for an irish passport.


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

chasper said:


> It also says everyone between 18 and 70 must have one. As it also says there will be a big demand for anyone with irish decendants for an irish passport.


That big demand started many months ago.

My application is in. :grin2:

Terry


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

chasper said:


> It also says everyone between 18 and 70 must have one. As it also says there will be a big demand for anyone with irish decendants for an irish passport.


You need one at other ages, it is just free for under 18 and over 70


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

chasper said:


> It also says everyone between 18 and 70 must have one. As it also says there will be a big demand for anyone with irish decendants for an irish passport.


I wish I was. descendants chasper - i have 5. Unfortunately my Irish ancestors are 1 generation too far back - a great-grandfather.


----------



## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

The 90 days in 180 days may cause problems to long stayers.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> The important thing to recognise here is that it's not JUST the U.K. that will be subject to this charge, it's being applied to ALL Non EU citizens. Also it's not an "Every trip" charge, it lasts for 3 years.
> 
> *However there is no information about what the procedure is if you wish to stay longer than 90 days*. That condition will only apply to a very small number of travellers, unfortunately that will be mostly us "chuggers and tuggers"
> 
> ...


The procedure is you have to go home or face deportation, a heavy fine and possible issues returning to Schengen. As Chasper says, it will cause a problem to many long term motorhomers. There is a long thread about it on Out and about live at the moment. I think many motorhomers seemed to think that this rule was nonsense or it wont apply to them but it certainly will. If your going out to Spain in October/November you will need to return by Christmas or soon after.


----------



## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

barryd said:


> The procedure is you have to go home or face deportation, a heavy fine and possible issues returning to Schengen. As Chasper says, it will cause a problem to many long term motorhomers. There is a long thread about it on Out and about live at the moment. I think many motorhomers seemed to think that this rule was nonsense or it wont apply to them but it certainly will. If your going out to Spain in October/November you will need to return by Christmas or soon after.


Can you quantify this Bazza or at least point us to the actual facts and I don't mean forum opinions.
When Brexit happens, and it will, there is no going back now, we will find out how the lands lay and can move on from there although some of you will want to stay in the past, forward an upwards is the way or you sink into oblivion.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Baz is simply quoting the rules as they apply to people from third countries. This is not a matter of opinion. The rules are easily found on the internet.

This has been fully understood since brexit came up by those who have bothered to do basic research.


----------



## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

erneboy said:


> Baz is simply quoting the rules as they apply to people from third countries. This is not a matter of opinion. The rules are easily found on the internet.
> 
> This has been fully understood since brexit came up by those who have bothered to do basic research.


I bow to your knowledge:grin2:


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Look it up. What did you think ending freedom of movement would mean?


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> Baz is simply quoting the rules as they apply to people from third countries. This is not a matter of opinion. The rules are easily found on the internet.
> 
> This has been fully understood since brexit came up by those who have bothered to do basic research.


You're forgetting about the 'cake and eat it' and the 'they need us more than we need them' syndromes than some still suffer from. :grin2:

Terry


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Baz is simply quoting the rules as they apply to people from third countries. This is not a matter of opinion. The rules are easily found on the internet.
> 
> This has been fully understood since brexit came up by those who have bothered to do basic research.


Now now Alan. The forward thinking (we want to go back to 1970 really) committee dont seem to know how to use google so we should help them.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6402_en.htm

And a bit more below on the limitations and consequences if you flout the rules.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/consequences-of-overstaying-in-schengen-area/

and a bit more http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/overstaying_schengen_visa.htm


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Did we really need another Brexit thread to discuss €7?

Just pay it.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Ah but, for motorhomers the 90 days is probably more important than the €7?


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Ah but, for motorhomers the 90 days is probably more important than the €7?


I would guess that for the majority of UK motor home owners who visit the EU that neither of them is important. For some of course either or both may be important to them.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well I'd reckon that there are more motorhomers who stay away longer than 90 days than there are for whom €7 would be a problem. Perhaps I'm wrong?


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Well I'd reckon that there are more motorhomers who stay away longer than 90 days than there are for whom €7 would be a problem. Perhaps I'm wrong?


No you are right. Perhaps 90+ days will in the future become one of the reoccurring question on forums together with UK Road tax and MOT requirements whilst abroad? I think the main worry for UK motorhomers may be the loss of goodwill. How welcome will they be when parked up at an aire along with those from EU countries?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

You'll have to fly the union flag and put a big notice in French/German/Italian and Spanish on the van saying "I voted to stay". >


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

JanHank said:


> You'll have to fly the union flag and put a big notice in French/German/Italian and Spanish on the van saying "I voted to stay". >


Will I be allowed to keep the GB/EU motif on my number plates?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

rayc said:


> Will I be allowed to keep the GB/EU motif on my number plates?


We have one on ours and the car and we always get smiles not scowled :grin2:


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

A simple “work around” for the 90 day rule would be an Easy jet (or any other airline) return flight to the U.K. and back. Your passport is scanned on the way back INTO the Schengen area and the 90 clock starts again. 
You would also have a ticket of some description to produce to the authorities IF you are ever challenged to show your MOST RECENT entry into the Shengen area. 

Simples!!!!

Andy


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm not sure that's correct Andy. It's 90 days in 180 and records are kept according to the link Baz posted.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

From that document: " it means that an absence for an uninterrupted period of 90 days allows for a
new stay for up to 90 days."


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> A simple "work around" for the 90 day rule would be an Easy jet (or any other airline) return flight to the U.K. and back. Your passport is scanned on the way back INTO the Schengen area and the 90 clock starts again.
> You would also have a ticket of some description to produce to the authorities IF you are ever challenged to show your MOST RECENT entry into the Shengen area.
> 
> Simples!!!!
> ...


I thought it was 90 days in 180 day period? If you stay for 90 days you would not be able to return until a further 90 days had elapsed. Obviously it can get a little complicated to calculate the 180 days if there are shorter trips that add up to 90 days. That is why there is a 'calculator' to enable the authorities to work it out.


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

JanHank said:


> We have one on ours and the car and we always get smiles not scowled :grin2:


I didn't mean it as a risk from the locals who I have found to be nice people but will we have to remove it by regulation in the event of exiting the EU?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

rayc said:


> I didn't mean it as a risk from the locals who I have found to be nice people but will we have to remove it by regulation in the event of exiting the EU?


Oh I see what you mean, I expect that's something else that will have to be replaced along with dozens of other things that will need renewing because of the exit, all the flags and signs for instance will have to scrub a star. It's going to cost millions.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

erneboy said:


> I'm not sure that's correct Andy. It's 90 days in 180 and records are kept according to the link Baz posted.
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/s...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf
> 
> From that document: " it means that an absence for an uninterrupted period of 90 days allows for a new stay for up to 90 days."


Ha!

Looks like the bu**ers have already thought of that wheeze then! I am sure there will be some facility to stay longer than 90 days. The rule will only affect a very small percentage of travellers. Unfortunately that small minority will include those MH'ers who are fortunate enough to be able to stay away for an extended period and avoid the winter here.

Andy


----------



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Ha!
> 
> Looks like the bu**ers have already thought of that wheeze then! I am sure there will be some facility to stay longer than 90 days. The rule will only affect a very small percentage of travellers. Unfortunately that small minority will include those MH'ers who are fortunate enough to be able to stay away for an extended period and avoid the winter here.
> 
> Andy


As far as I know without some agreement of free movement you would be subject to the rules that face all other countries, the US for example. You would have to apply for a visa in a particular country to stay longer than 90 days. Which can be hard to get. And if caught overstaying you could be denied re-entry for a much longer period even years. All the anti immigration sentiment is making it harder and harder and they must apply the rules to everyone. And don't even think about retiring in say Italy without a big independent income and private health insurance along with a bunch of paper work. Time to get real and face up to what Brexit means. There is nothing in the latest agreement as far as I know that gives UK citizens any special privileges regarding staying in the EU any longer than anyone else.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Without singling anybody out it's my belief that a great many people, brexiters especially, have not realised just how much things are set to change if/when we leave, regardless of deals.

I think we'll hear a lot of people expressing surprise that this or that has gone, even though anybody who'd made an effort to keep up would have known about a lot of it. It's a shame that so many of them embrace it so keenly without having bothered to understand it. 

Anyone who was unaware of the 90 day rule, it's scope and it's effects, simply has been paying attention even to the most basic consequences of leaving. The probable loss of the EHIC arrangements will doubtless surprise the same people too. That assumes that they understood them in the first place. I'd have though that they probably did but one brexiter currently posting on the main brexit thread obviously didn't so who can say?


----------



## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

This is not affected by Brexit wether the Uk is in or out of the EU it is that it is not a member of Shengen it will also affect Ireland and Cyprus.


----------



## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

The problem can be solved wether in or out of the Eu simply join Shengen no 90 day problems or charges,and the bonus of no problems at the channel ports as all the illegals from Europe will be able to pass thus increasing our multiculturism.


----------



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Yeah, I am American but also have Italian citizenship so no worries about traveling and living in the EU. But being from a country outside the EU I am very aware of what others have to go through to live in Italy where I am. It is really a pain in the ass, impossible for most and even though we Americans and perhaps soon you English might think we should be treated differently than someone from a third world country we are not. No special privileges.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The standard brexiter answer is. "I don't want to live in Italy anyway".


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

erneboy said:


> The standard brexiter answer is. "I don't want to live in Italy anyway".


This sky article shows the effect of the current deadlock in Parliament is having specifically on UK nationals within the EU. They also confirm "that Jean-Claude Juncker was clearly talking not about Mrs May but about the wider British stance on Brexit - and, let's be frank: he's not wrong."

I hope that MP's are reading it and taking note before they return to the Commons tomorrow to hear the PM's report of her trip to Brussels. I fear though it will just be another 4 hours or so of them all saying what they don't like without a clue what to do about it.

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-view...forget-brexits-impact-on-real-people-11582570


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Ha!
> 
> Looks like the bu**ers have already thought of that wheeze then! I am sure there will be some facility to stay longer than 90 days. The rule will only affect a very small percentage of travellers. Unfortunately that small minority will include those MH'ers who are fortunate enough to be able to stay away for an extended period and avoid the winter here.
> 
> Andy


These rules are nothing new. They have been in force for years. The rules were simply not on our radar because as members of the EU we have enjoyed a wonderful thing called Free movement so they didnt apply to us. I was talking to a fellow motorhomer and remainer who is down in Spain right now and he reckons the sites down there are full of Brexiteer snow birds who stay for months and months every year who just seem to think its all a load of cobblers and the rules wont apply to them. Trouble is ignorance as I am sure you know is no excuse for breaking the law and post Brexit there will be no getting round it as you will be checked in and out of Schengen. Some people are going to get a rude awakening I think.


----------



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> The standard brexiter answer is. "I don't want to live in Italy anyway".


Or any of the other 27 countries.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Surely if you want to stay longer than 90 days away from home you should consider moving?


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

patp said:


> Surely if you want to stay longer than 90 days away from home you should consider moving?


Nope hasn't crossed our mind and we go for 4-5 months, each to their own I say.

Terry


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

We go for years at a time but we have investments in the UK and in any case we move from country to country even if we do stay for months. You'd have me move twice a year?


----------



## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

patp said:


> Surely if you want to stay longer than 90 days away from home you should consider moving?


If you stay longer than 90 days in any one country you should certainly consider your tax status.
If you " have a home " in the UK for more than 90 days and spend over 30 days in that home...its one of the points on whether you are resident for tax purposes.
If/when Brits are counted in and out of Schengen, you should make sure you know the rules of the country you intend to stay in.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

My understanding of the current situation and possible changes, without special provisions in a 'deal with EU' is as follows.


Currently


1 As an EU Member State its citizens have a right of access to all EU(and other Schengen countries).


2 If any person, whether from UK or other EU State, or elsewhere resides in a country they are obliged to apply for formal residence under that country's rules. Moving from country to country after less than 90 days(e.g. MH touring) absolves one from such obligation.



Changes


2 above will remain the same, except as below



1 above will change in that, without a long-term visa or an EU or Schengen Residency permit, one will only be allowed to stay within the entire Schengen Area for 90 days and this can be checked on entry and exit.


As for the suggestion that UK joining Schengen would solve the problem - yes it would for British Passport holders, but it would also allow anyone to cross from any Schengen country to UK with no checks, which would defeat one leg of Brexit.


As to tax, Sarah is right to caution about checking one's liability to be taxed in country of 'Residence'. Most countries do it after 180 days, but maybe some after 90 days. However, the rules under 'Double Taxation Agreements' also apply, for example the UK-Polish agreement states that, even for a Polish Resident, if all income arises in UK(where it is liable for tax) and none arises in Poland, there is no Polish tax liability. So one needs to take specialist advice from a taxation specialist in any country where one might become resident.


I hope I have got this correct, and it clarifies which rules apply to 90 days now and maybe in future, without different provisions in a deal.


Geoff


----------

