# This PC stupidity has gone too far now.



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/29/head...ng-morning-boys-and-girls-at-school-14492925/


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It seems to me that it's implicit in your statement that all PC behaviour is stupid Kev. Is that what you meant to say?

What the article deals with has no bearing on my question at all.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

People are Black, white and other shades and colours, people are fat and thin, tall and short, stupid and clever, everyone has a description pertaining to them in one way or another, I do get the PC thing and some of it is very valid, but to my mind, unless it actually an insult in some way or bullying, demeaning, then it's time to have a bit of a re-think before making irrational decisions about what can or can't be said, I have a really old mate, he is a Pakistani lad, he has always been **** to us, his real name is Ali, but he has always asked to be called ****, I have always objected to it, as I think others might think it's okay to call him names when they don't know him as we do, he's always been Ali to me, and always will be, not that **** is insulting in reality, it's an abbreviation of what I am he says.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> It seems to me that it's implicit in your statement that all PC behaviour is stupid Kev. Is that what you meant to say?
> 
> What the article deals with has no bearing on my question at all.


Read whatever you like into it Alan, you usually do anyway, but now you have my permission.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Of course that's exactly what I wasn't doing Kev. I was asking.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I have always had a lot of respect for you Alan, and likely will continue to do so, but you do have a way of asking about peoples posts, and that I think most would find annoying, it happens so often that it cannot be just by chance, there is another couple of people on this and other forums who do the same thing, it is not my idea of how a forum should run, by all means discuss, but in this instance it was my thoughts, merely a news item being posted so why question it at all, it wasn't a statement.


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

I agree with you Kev some of the PC lot should spend sometime in the mining village i was born they would either have an heart attack or become normal


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Luckily you aren't the arbiters of what's normal.


Do you think the chat and attitudes in your mining village might be rougher than those on Belfast Building sites Bill?


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

The lads fom Belfast would would fit in well in the village pub, I am glad i no longer live in the UK and i hope the PC lot dont come to Spain as i would not be able to get polish for my black shoes


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I asked about the PC thing because I think that any silly edict at all is prone to being dismissed as political correctness as though anything of the sort is always over the top.

Kev tells us about not liking to hear his friend called by what most of us would consider to be a completely inappropriate name. So he, like me, takes a PC perspective when it comes to some things. I suspect most of us do. In the instance quoted in the OP I do think the edict was probably going over the top, and it seems to have been done in the name of political correctness.

As Kev pointed out by referring to his friend, not all political correctness is stupid.

That edict would not be over the top if there was a child who was uncertain of their gender at the school though, would it?


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

I just don't know why people get so irate about these things. 

Language and society changes and hopefully grows and sometimes those changes seem strange to us and sometimes they don't seem helpful. 

What the headteacher said doesn't seem very helpful but at least she is trying to think about the issues.
Would there be objections if we had to say ........Good Morning boys and girls and transgenders and those who aren't sure and...and
So maybe she has a point................Good morning everybody...........why does that wind people up

No doubt there was the same outcry of "PC gone mad" when women started "burning their bras" just as a way of diluting what the "**** feminists " were saying.

And then it leads to comments that they should all be normalised in a mining village........or become a proper bloke no doubt.

I tell you it backward looking, reactionary Daily Mail attitudes,.................gone mad !!!!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Webby1 said:


> I just don't know why people get so irate about these things.
> 
> No doubt there was the same outcry of "PC gone mad" when women started "burning their bras" just as a way of diluting what the "**** feminists " were saying.
> !!!!


I remember the reaction in around 1960 a in rural Co Antrim village when my Mother, who by then was a successful architect living and working in the sinful big city that was Belfast, went home to the family farm wearing trousers. It would be no exaggeration to say that they were hysterical, behind her back obviously. People came out of the Pub and into the house for a look.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Difficult one this, too often these days one person's good manners can be seen as another person's provocative PC gesture. The least qualified to judge though are undoubtedly those that hear about it 3rd hand.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> People are Black, white and other shades and colours, people are fat and thin, tall and short, stupid and clever, everyone has a description pertaining to them in one way or another,


Don't forget Northern Kev...

...another totally different breed









:grin2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I agree, Kev, it is turning tolerant people into non tolerant people. All the ethnic minority people I lived and worked amongst would take a joke at their race and give as good as they got. The it was seen as not politically correct and, quite rightly, it fizzled out. It has now become ridiculous and the gender issues have joined in. It makes people almost not want to socialise and work alongside anyone seen as "different" for fear of saying word out of place. This feeling then spreads to not wanting them in the country so that people can go about their normal business without checking their language or behaviour around others. I am sure that any child struggling with gender issues would rather it not be brought to everyone's attention by a change in the behaviour and language of the staff.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Would any children notice if it went from "Good morning boys and girls" to "Good morning everyone"?

If they did would they connect that to there being a child with gender issues and remark on it?


If those things were seen as likely it would have been a great error to have made the change I think.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

It is difficult not to offend these days, I have to agree.

At least 10 years ago when i was teaching I called lad 'sunshine' (as in ' Hello sunshine, how are you?') with no implied context whatsoever and was warned by a colleague that it could cause offence. The lad in question happened to be of Indian Sub Continent heritage. I have no reason why it could be construed as offensive though!

I have also had to stop using the word 'Chief' as in 'Thanks Chief' to a waiter/shop worker/mechanic or whomever. Just in case.

I guess we are all part of the 'woke' feelings that are sweeping the country. As with most things, mainly a good thing but can be overdone.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It may be more understandable if we research the school concerned.

This seems to be the one: https://www.attitude.co.uk/article/...being-subjected-to-homophobic-protests/20998/

Unfortunately it has found its self at the centre of some very unseemly behaviour through no fault of the school, as far as I can see.

Under the circumstances it must be very difficult for the staff to walk the line between the opposing pressures. If going from boys and girls to everyone was overly PC perhaps we can understand how it came about and sympathise with the teachers involved. Certainly railing against it just piles on the pressure.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Teachers can never win I'm afraid: you are damned if you do and damned if you don't and simply cannot please all the people all the time.

I always tried to keep everyone around me - colleagues, students and my boss - in a mild state of dissatisfaction, when I was teaching!


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

GMJ said:


> I guess we are all part of the 'woke' feelings that are sweeping the country. As with most things, mainly a good thing but can be overdone.


I completely agree with you...................but sometimes the overdone bits are urban myths coming from certain newspapers and guaranteed to stir up their readers about what "they" won't allow you to say anymore.

Or was that the EU and straight bananas etc etc

But as you say mainly a good thing....there are certain words I used casually as a teenager....think Alf Garnett....that I would not dream of using now................Change,growth,education,respect.

But I don't understand why some people get so very very irate about it all.....are they still complaining about decimalisation.

I ask them what words would you like to be able to use that "they" won't allow you to use anymore.

Of course people went along with those "jokey,friendly" names that were used...............anything for a quiet life.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It's a concerted campaign to misrepresent over a long period of years and wide variety of examples, or at least to omit important details, so as to make the case against what they call political correctness. Anything reactionaries don't like can be classified as PC and sneered at. The truth is unimportant. What's important is resisting liberal values. That's why things have moved on and we now have the sneering general purpose epithet woke. Woke means everything and nothing.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

And it's turning "tolerant people into non tolerant people"........................yeah right ?????

Interesting link about the actual school.........................backward looking reactionaries in all walks of life.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Woke means everything and nothing.


Sorry, I dislike deliberate adoption of a misspelled word.

'Woke" comes from African American Vernacular English and in it's original form means "awake".

American English differs from U.K. English, why use such a term ?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree. It is a dreadful word used as they use it, and they use as a jibe it simply because they know it is so annoying.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

So, why bother to use it on here ? 

“simply because it is so annoying “?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> So, why bother to use it on here ?
> 
> "simply because it is so annoying "?


My, my Dave tetchy!

I used the word to connect the criticism of things regarded as being PC to it's most recent evolution which is the widespread use the word woke in sneering at the same things.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

I think Alan was referring to the previous use of the term and indicating it was a pointless term meaning "everything and nothing"

There are plenty of other sneering terms you could object to,and their use of English. 

PC gone mad
Elf and safety brigade
Snowflakes
Treehuggers

I am sure there are others on here who can think of plenty more. 

But no one said change was easy "There used to be 240 pennies in the pound and now there are only 100" Bring back the good old days


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I think these terms are self explanatory and generally understood in todays world and not necessarily derogatory.

PC gone mad
Elf and safety brigade
Snowflakes
Treehuggers

OK we can all use and interpret them in our own ways that's not always universal. But being PC or even the PC Brigade is often a reasonable description imho.
There must be others we all use from time to time that might have evolved into common use. Some can be interpreted as offensive but only by the offended and not necessarily everyone. 
So because one, two or a few are offended must we all stop using a phrase/description that has been in common use? 

Ray.

p.s. I have just seen the word 'sneering' and never thought of them being such.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Those words are not universally used so as to be offensive, mostly they are but not exclusively so, thus are not in themselves necessarily offensive, but they can be used to give offence if the context in which they are used is offensive.

In the spoken word even the tone of delivery can give context.

As with so many things context is makes the difference.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Other than the descriptive way I have used them, I have always seen those terms used in a contemptuous and sneering manner.

Looking at the context and often the person using them is enough to clarify that belief.

Ray I suggest those terms were "created" exactly for the purpose of being, well not necessarily offensive,as we know other terms.

But they are certainly meant to be dismissive and derogatory...................have you ever seen them used in a positive manner. It's possible

Brigade is a group of people who come together to make the world a better place

Treehuggers have really drawn our attention to the issues of the environment


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Never positive I'd say, thought sometimes jokingly or self deprecatingly.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Webby1 said:


> Other than the descriptive way I have used them, I have always seen those terms used in a contemptuous and sneering manner.
> Looking at the context and often the person using them is enough to clarify that belief.
> Ray I suggest those terms were "created" exactly for the purpose of being, well not necessarily offensive,as we know other terms.
> But they are certainly meant to be dismissive and derogatory...................have you ever seen them used in a positive manner. It's possible
> ...


Your obviously mixing in the wrong circles Peter. Or maybe overly sensitive seeing something thats not there.

Ray.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Ray I'm not particularly sensitive about it. I am certainly not saying those expressions are as bad or offensive as many others.

But surely you you can see those examples are meant to be......... dismissive or sneering at the least. 

If you can't see it, next time people in your circle use them just ask what was their intention.

Or look on here at the context those expressions are used or by whom or in which newspapers. The context is everything.

I thank that "elf and safety brigade" for making my motorhome safer.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I tend to like irony and see humour in many things even at the expense of others. 50s humour, vaudeville and even 70s comic TV. I grew up and evolved with it. 
Ok some is now frowned upon but you can't expect to indoctrinate people not to see the humour and only laugh at the current ideal and dare I say PC humour. 

Sorry but we are all 'people' with differing appreciation and tastes of everything. And I can quite happily refer to a tree hugger as one who might have hippy tendencies but is trying to save the planet. Good on em. 
There is no malice or what was the word you used? Sneering? As I said I think you often see things that are just not there and try to suggest we all see what you see. 

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree Ray, but sadly, some people seem to just want to attack others on here for stating their point of view - it seems to be the way MHF is being dragged by some members..... 😢


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm on four forums now Dave. Dunno where I get the time really. But one is totally abusing all members and is really very funny, so much so that after I have gathered my composure I pass on the humour/comedy to others.
Another where politics and dissention is actively discouraged almost to the point of censorship. But it does stop any personal agro.
mhf and two Facebook French orientated groups. 
It's only on mhf things can get personally abusive. Shame really.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> Agree Ray, but sadly, some people seem to just want to attack others on here for stating their point of view - it seems to be the way MHF is being dragged by some members..... 😢


Haven't you just done the very thing you are complaining about Dave?

Ray, talks about the use of those words in humour. I think that since those objecting to the words seem to have agreed that context is all then nobody is voicing any strong objection to use in that way, even if it is a bit non PC.

See what I did there?


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Dave and Ray you both need to think this through....................am I attacking you for expressing your point of view or are you attacking me for expressing my point of view.

Disagreeing with someone is not being personally abusive.....................what kind of snowflakes are you both. 

Dare I suggest that the actual title of the thread is the kind of provocative stuff that is guaranteed to create discord.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Isn't it astonishing how two groups of people can read the same posts and see completely different things?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You better not watch any of Jimmy Carrs youtube videos, not in the least PC about most things.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

... including paying his taxes:laugh:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Isn't it humour Kev?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

*.... tailored to an audience as all professional humour is. We all have our favourite and non favourite comedians don't we?*


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Webby1 said:


> Dave and Ray you both need to think this through....................am I attacking you for expressing your point of view or are *you attacking * me for expressing my point of view.
> 
> Disagreeing with someone is not being personally abusive....................*.what kind of snowflakes are you both. *
> 
> Dare I suggest that the actual title of the thread is the kind of provocative stuff that is guaranteed to create discord.


Thank you for that example....


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You have decided to pursue this on two threads now Dave. Is that necessary?

Any way here's my reply to abiove question when you asked it on the pther thread.

That is simply an example of an attempt an humour which has gone wrong because the you recipient don't think it's funny Dave.

You see it as an attack. I saw it as an attempt at humour. Two people viewing the same thing and seeing different things.

In my opinion for you to see it as an attack you really have excelled yourself and over reached by several miles. By the way that's an opinion, albeit a slightly disapproving one. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see you continue to overreach and characterise it as an attack.


That's the thing about how you decide to perceive what are and aren't attacks. If you see every opinion that disagrees with yours as an attack you are going to be under attack rather a lot.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thank you for your considered opinion :wink:


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> You better not watch any of Jimmy Carrs youtube videos, not in the least PC about most things.


He's an amateur...........I see Jim Davidson is on tour again....................now there's "non-PC gone mad"


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> Thank you for your considered opinion :wink:


You are welcome I assure you Dave. Wink.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> You better not watch any of Jimmy Carrs youtube videos, not in the least PC about most things.


Can't understand him because he gabbles. He is a 'gabbler'. Is that allowed?

Ray.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

He's a tw*t.......................is that allowed ???????????

Who do I have to ask to find out if things are allowed or not............who on here has EVER told you that you are not allowed to say anything.

What are the things you would like to say "if you were allowed"


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Being seen possibly as a derogatory term in that context, allowed might not be the most accurate verb. "Innocent enough not to bring a reaction". 

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

****

I’ve not seen any of it

I’m sulking now

Sandra


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