# Autotrail the Lowest Quality Motorhome ??



## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Today was a really wet day so i spent most of it looking at problem posts here and on other forums. After a while it was apparent that there were more problem posts from Autotrail owners than any other make, certainly with new or nearly new vans.
So are they generally of poor quality or maybe there is just more of them.


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

Oh ! Thanks ?? Mine is just over one month old and back to dealers for sat/nav/tv fix for the inferior one fitted. Oh ! and water leak fixed by placing the shower drain tube back on outlet, which had not been done 1 what's next I wonder.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: Autotrail the Lowest Quality Motorhome*



Gretchibald said:


> Today was a really wet day so i spent most of it looking at problem posts here and on other forums. After a while it was apparent that there were more problem posts from Autotrail owners than any other make, certainly with new or nearly new vans.
> So are they generally of poor quality or maybe there is just more of them.


Dont surprise me. And I bet that they are followed closely by swift?

Steve


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

A circular argument in the first post I think. :wink: 

If there are more of them around they can't be that bad, or word would have got around both on here and elsewhere.

If they really were crap, there wouldn't be more of them around because word would have . . . . . :roll: 

Dave


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Sorry, not meaning to offend any owners. I have a particular interest at the moment in listing the common faults in the various makes/types as friends of mine , having just retired are looking to upgrade to a fairly fresh van in the £40-£50k range. 
So far Hobby seems to be a good choice for build quality -- even here though the common problem seems to be low payload.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Gretchibald said:


> So far Hobby seems to be a good choice for build quality -- even here though the common problem seems to be low payload.


From my experience what you've got now is near enough to the best from a build quality standpoint. I'm finding out the hard way since I changed my N&B. :roll:


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

...and if it makes you feel any better here are the common faults with my van, Arto 69GL
garage door leaks and rots the floor, poor payload unless upgraded to at least 3.8Tonnes, as aerodynamic as a brick, poor MPG,catches side winds, hard ride benefits from air assist suspension, windscreen replacement about £4000, eats tap micro switches, needs mudflaps, difficult to carry out any work to the engine due to restrictive space, the table is too big and creates a bottle neck for passing each other, there is poor support beneath the shower tray so a lot of them have cracked, sun visors not able to cover the big windscreen adequately, mirrors don't give adequate cover for blind spots.
I consider this pretty good in compassion to others although it has to be said that I could have bought a similar sized van of different make about half the age of this one for roughly the same money-- so perhaps expensive should be in the common faults list as well.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Gretchibald said:


> ...and if it makes you feel any better here are the common faults with my van, Arto 69GL


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, the perfect M/H doesn't exist does it?

Ours was the later model than yours with the 4000kg ALKO chassis so quite a few of your problems had been resolved (does this mean that some M/H manufacturors learn from their mistakes?).
I can def sympathise with you on some points though - they certainly aren't perfect - and they definitely aren't cheap. :wink:

PS: FWIW I agree with your statement on the Hobby, we had one before we bought the Arto and didn't have any real issues with it in two years ownership.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The perfect MH does exist, it's a 2001 Laika Eco VIP 7RG garage has a alloy checker plate so could never rot out in the life of the van & we still have it, aside from a few fridge issues 2 y ears ago, it has not broken in any way in all the time we've had it.

Can't say the same for the base vehicle, JTD 2.8, but the hab has been brilliant.

Unfortunately finances dictate that it has to go and a self build will replace it, I just hope I can build a good one, and with the help of you peeps I probably will, with advice on which are the best components to utilise, but there isn't much, is there, just a fridge, a bog, a water pump, a hob/oven, and heating/hot water, the rest is all nails screws and glue, plenty of glue   :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I suspect the problem with Autotrail is their popularity has grown exponentially. Back in the late 90's they were a small firm and what they built was quality motorhomes. They have since moved into a new factory and increased production probably year on year judging by the numbers now seen on the road. Rapid growth and trying to meet demand has it's problems!

peedee


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

One of the benefits of living close to Autotrail is they are fantastic to deal with direct. They carried out the hab service on my fathers Tracker EKS and nothing was too much trouble. Came back with new taps, lights, switches etc and some other bits we hadn't spotted. The replacement parts were component parts common to many vans.

Things go wrong, it's the attitude / willingness of the company to put them right which makes the difference.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

gretchibald - shouldn't your title have a question mark after it? It seems to be a question rather than a statement supported by statistics. :?


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I can't comment on the new Auto Trails as ours is a 1997 Mohican, we are spending money on it now replacing things not because they are faulty through bad manufacturing but because they are worn out with use..

We have had the van since 1999 and a lot of the years nothing went wrong apart from the usual fifth gear rolling over, but that is Fiat not Auto Trail..

Would we by another van, well maybe, but getting Sandra to part with the Mohican now we have it as we want it as a totally self sufficient van, really capable of wild camping, she would get rid of me first :roll: ..

And to be honest I couldn't be arsed in starting again to get to the same standard of the clocks whistles and dials of the van we have without paying thousands and thousands, and after all the dearest van only keeps the rain off your head, and my 70 mph is just as fast as any other that is doing 70!..

So Auto Trail for us has been a success story. :wink: 

ray.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Never had any great issues with mine (faults have been with aftermarket kit)...only endemic/systematic fault has been all of the LED lights have failed & had to be replaced gradually over time.

Most of the issues I've seen on here have been around certain recurring faults, e.g. the latest satnav units being a bit dodgy. Having said that, these type of faults only arise because Auto-trail fit things (satnav / integrated entertainment system) where most other manufacturers leave you to your own devices.


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

It always makes me laugh when you look at the J D Power type surveys, near the top you will often find all the marques where they only sold a handful and the mass producers much further down.

My previous vans have been bessacarr, autocruise and now autosleeper and I have to say they have all been equally good build quality and any problems quickly sorted under warranty.

Where I have seen the difference though is in the base chassis, Peugeot and Fiat did the job, Renault did the job better and the latest Euro V Mercedes is in a different class altogether.

I have always regarded Autotrail as a quality product and would almost certainly have owned one had they not dropped the Mercedes chassis.


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## soggy (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi after owning an 05 arapaho for 4 years with no problems whatsoever I was interested to look around a new model at the was peterborough show needless to say we all know what the weather was like but I was dismayed to see water constantly dripping from a central light fitting, even worse was a swift whose ceiling was sodden and the salesmans response was "well its had a good going over!!!! meaning the rain.

My 1st van was a yank no problems
2nd An ace again no bother
3rd the arapaho
4th an 06 ace tiny signs of damp in the floor
5th a laika solid van
6th a scout touch wood no probs so far
I have looked at three other vans up and down the country whose owners described them as good condition ie. no damp

1st a swift wouldn't keep pigs in it ,sodden
2nd autotrail spongy floor
3rd swift slight signs of damp which after buying it have turned out to be extensive
to be fair the 3 above were oldish vans.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

We have had four Autotrail vans. The old ones seemed very well put together. The most recent, a Mohican bought new in 2008 was a complete lemon.

My impression is that their quality has fallen off markedly, Alan.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Well now we have started something, could be as big as Generators or was it Moderators?

We have a ten year old La Strada. 
I tremble to type this as the only fault so far is the NRV on the Reitch Pump which I have replaced with a standard 22mm plumbing job.
Being German it came with one 13amp socket, now increased to four.
Only real complaint is the Coloured sections of the fibre glass bodyshell chalks due to sun exposure and requires cutting back and reglazing every year, hard work.

Almost forgot two new injectors at 45k miles.

Steve


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

I am on my second Auto trail and have always been impressed with their quality.
I agree with bognormike's comment 

Charlie


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## soggy (Apr 23, 2012)

A German friend of ours owns a clou which he decided to upgrade after owing it a number of years from new
after looking at new models and on the salesmans advice it was concluded that the older vans were a better quality product ie. thicker insulation better engineered etc. as all the newer stock were built to a price and shared common fittings with 'lesser' vans.

As for my limited experience of autotrail customer service (parts) I scaped a locker door (damn that sat nav) and requested a new one stating model ,build no. dimensions.
Having reiterated which locker I needed I was promptly sent the wrong one and then was told thats the one I requested
Untrue locker I recieved was for a totally different model and upon requesting collection I was told to send it back at my own cost and I would be reinbursed the cost of the locker door but not postage either way! 
Feeling a bit miffed at something which was not my fault I was told
well you had a bit of 'd' section free which I had managed to cadge bout 6inch so tough basically.
I had a bodyshop repair the door cheaper and next time I pay by cc.


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## Philippft (Feb 16, 2008)

I am dissapointed with the build quality on my new Autotrail. Whilst the faults I have found have been corrected by the dealer over several visits, my expectation is a new motorhome should be defect free.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

The only problems we have had with our 2005 cheyenne are cracking of the rear grp panel. We have owned it since it was 6 months old.

Dave p


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

Very pleased with our Autotrail Apache. Only problem has been the freezing SatNav which is a bad batch apparently.

Everything else is well built and this is the first van we have had which is pretty much rattle free. Very impressed.  

We did a factory tour before buying and were very impressed with the way that the vans were put together and the pride that the workers took in their work. This tour was arranged by arrangement just for us, and the workers were not expecting to be observed, so all credit to them for impressing us!! I was looking for problems but couldn't find any, so we placed an order.

No make is always going to be perfect - even amongst the ones with good reputations there will always be the odd one with problems, but once you have chosen the van you want, I think the dealer is probably the next most important factor, then if anything does go wrong you can get it fixed.

Compared to our previous Swift, this one is a king.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Uplifting to read a lot of positive comments here as naturally we usually only get the problems-- my faith is somewhat restored.
It would seem that some poor unfortunates have picked up the odd badly assembled lemon . The rest , after personal choice, should be prepared to fix all the little faults , do all the mods, buy all the extras, apply regular maintenance, and hang on to what you've got --- until something else takes your fancy and then .......


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## Landyman (Apr 3, 2010)

Despite some of the negative comments above I have to say that we are very impressed with the fit and finish in our new Frontier Delaware.

Compared with our previous Swift it is virtually rattle free (just the odd clatter from the oven) and feels much better built.
True, we have only made one trip so it is early days but four weeks in France should put it through its paces.
We did have a problem getting the sat nav to work but a phone call to the dealer and a bit of 'furkling' by me and it is fine. 

We have also been impressed by the dealer,Simpsons at Great Yarmouth, who have been very professional from the start and prepared the van very well.

Just hope I am saying the same things in a couple of years time.  

Landyman.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Kev -Short memory , but I'll let you off.


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

surprised no-one has mentioned Hymers.Our 8 year old one is superb build quality but I must admit the new ones I looked at about 4 years ago were not so good. Happily the 2012 models we saw at Dusseldorf seemed to have gone back to a high standard.

Chris


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Our perfect motorhome doesnt exist.

I have been looking for a replacement for over a year for our Kontiki. Nothing fits the bill or is available.

I quite like the look of the Autotrails and considered an Arapaho or possibly an Apache as they have a rear lounge, front dinette and the Arapaho has enough payload to take our scooter and rack. The Apache might at a push. But they are not winterised and a couple of people have told me about questionable build quality. 

It seems however this questionable build quality seems to be on later models and I dont think its just Autotrail. I have even heard that the newer Hymers are not as good or Swifts for that matter. I suspect you just hear more about Autotrails and Swifts going wrong as there are loads of them!

My shopping list for the perfect van is as follows

Layout: Rear lounge, front dinette, overhead luton cab

Huge payload (1000KG+) with at least half of that available on the rear axle.

Winterised

Alko Chassis

Decent plumbing system!! powerful taps and showers.

Never leaks or suffers from damp

Preferably not a Fiat but not a deal breaker

Easy to get hold of parts and people who can actually fix things rather than just say they have fixed it only for you to discover they just havent! 

There you go manufacturers build that and send it to me before June when we need to be off!


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Barryd - I hope I wasn't dreaming , but I think I read a review somewhere about a Hymer with a rear lounge AND a garage, this was achieved by the lounge raising and lowering on elec. motors.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> Barryd - I hope I wasn't dreaming , but I think I read a review somewhere about a Hymer with a rear lounge AND a garage, this was achieved by the lounge raising and lowering on elec. motors.


You must have been dreaming!! Surely 

Well if it exsists I would love to see it.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Although off topic I know but N&B did an Arto with a rear lounge and a garage specifically for the UK market I think, however it did not get good reviews with people saying the garage is too restricted what with the lounge supports coming down.

Paul.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

2003 Dakota SE on a Merc Sprinter base. I have owned it for 4 years and yes I have had a few "niggles" but I have not found a single MH (other than a new Autotrail Commanche, which I simply cant afford) new or used, that I would exchange it for. Everything just works as it should. Only issue is I have to carefully watch my rear axle weight, however removing 65Kg of towbar and 50Kg of generator (both well behind the rear axle) helped a lot in that respect. 

I did have a (very slightly) spongy floor(common to most MH's these days) attended to a while ago at Three Counties MH's at Poole where I bought it from. I mentioned I might be looking to change. the response was "If I was you I would keep what you have, the newer stuff is nothing like as good" and that was from someone who's purpose is to sell MH's!!


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## DavidRon (May 1, 2005)

I've had 2 Autotrails
1995 Cheyenne Great bit of kit.

2002 Cheyenne. A complete disaster. bought it new.
Poor exterior paint finish, aluminum showing through, charger failed first day, outside lockers wouldn't unlock had to change the locks. I could go on but I'm depressing myself.

One Autosleeper 2003. Good quality. Few problems

One Autocruise 2007 Best of the lot. No problems.
Don't know what they're like since Swift got their hands on them


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Barryd-- Knew I wasn't dreaming, not quite as I remembered it but here it is. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/userfiles/file/WMH historic road tests/Hymer b534 wmh jul11.pdf


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

Never owned one but a friend bought a Grande Frontier new, and loved it. However he bought it from B....hills, and after complaining that the Eberspacher heating wasn't working they insisted it was working on pre-delivery inspection. Turned out upon being inspected by a Eberspacher dealer near his home that the wrong loom had been used and wasn't long enough to mate up underfloor!!! So much for truth and pdi's. Ended up taking it back to Factory for a great number of mainly small things and then hugely pleased with 'van after that. 

Would have loved one myself, but we wanted an end lounge below the 3.5T mark and they didn't do one.

Gary


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> Barryd-- Knew I wasn't dreaming, not quite as I remembered it but here it is. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/userfiles/file/WMH historic road tests/Hymer b534 wmh jul11.pdf


Golly!

Will it take a scooter?

My first thoughts were. A. It will break or get stuck somewhere in Eastern Europe and B. It will use a lot of battery power!

Looks lovely though, if a little small and errr.. Expensive.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

No doubt all have been reading Frank's thread " Buying a van -- a Story "--- it justifies and augments this thread nicely.


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## giddy1515 (Jan 30, 2012)

Just taken delivery of Autotrail Apache 700 SI with 180bhp comfortmatic. Everything looked fine at the dealers and so accepted delivery.

On arriving home I gave it a more thorough check only to find that the drivers door has clearly been repaired (This is a brand new vehicle!) I can see rubbing down marks through the paint.

Everyone talks about transparancy and I should know being a regulated individual. Why didnt the dealer tell me it had been repaired? Don't bother answering that one I know the answer if he had i wouldnt have accepted delivery. The led strip light beneath the bathroom door had fallen off by the time i arrived home.

I had requested aThatcham cat 1 alarm system to be fitted as it was a condition of my insurance. Being supicious and having checkedback with the dealer one hasnt been fitted!

Within 30 minutes of arriving home the key fob transponder had stopped working meaning that I can only manually lock the dooors via the drivers door which I understand does not activate the imobiliser.

Having filled up the fresh water to 100% and then emptying the waste water tank the fresh water guage now shows 0% full and yes I have checked to ensure that I emptied the correct tank.

So not very happy mainly with the dealer as when I called back to complain I was told they were not aware that it had been repaired and would have to check back with Autotrail. Please, do me a favour if the vehicle has had a proper PDI inspection they couldnt have missed it. or are they just totally incompetent.

Not a happy bunny at present

Oh and there are bubbles in the decals on the cab.

Adrian


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

I used to sell and lease 80 million dollar Boeing and Airbus products for a living, the more it costs the more it comes new with faults as standard.


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

Gretchibald said:


> So far Hobby seems to be a good choice for build quality -- even here though the common problem seems to be low payload.


That depends on the Hobby model I think. Mine in standard form has about a 1,100 kg payload.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

My friends seem to have decided on a Knaus Sun T1650 MF -- anyone know any common faults with this one ?


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## mixyblob (May 3, 2011)

PaulW2 said:


> Gretchibald said:
> 
> 
> > So far Hobby seems to be a good choice for build quality -- even here though the common problem seems to be low payload.
> ...


My Hobby 700 has over a tonne of payload.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

giddy1515 said:


> Just taken delivery of Autotrail Apache 700 SI with 180bhp comfortmatic. Everything looked fine at the dealers and so accepted delivery.
> 
> On arriving home I gave it a more thorough check only to find that the drivers door has clearly been repaired (This is a brand new vehicle!) I can see rubbing down marks through the paint.
> 
> ...


I think I'd be going down the rejection as not of merchantable quality route very quickly


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## Corkheader (Aug 25, 2008)

We had an Autosleeper Pollensa on a Transit as a first van. Very solid, good manufacturer back up even though it was ten years old.

Stupidly changed it for a CI Cipro on a Renault Master. Great chassis and layout but terrible build quality, spares availability none existant and a manufacturers warranty worthless. Trigano Group who import them where very title help leaving us to deal with Italy. I have posted elsewhere about the issues we had, damp in particular. 

We now have a Romahome R40, still a few niggles but Romahome do seem to care and demonstrate a desire to resolve them. Its also a fibreglass monocoque which should reduce the risk of leaks and no wood!

Time will tell...

Paying 50k for a car that leaked or was off the road for three months waiting for spares would not be tolerated, yet we have to put up with it from motorhome manufacturers. 

This Site has a considerable membership and I suspect prospective owners will research brands via the forums. Could we not have some form of easily accessible rating for quality and customer care? It may allow us to exercise some form influence. It could be simply a listing of models with a star rating for quality, dealer and manufcaturer performance and some free text as found on car sites. Prospective owners and those of us looking to change might find it much easier to track information down. If it proved popular I am sure dealers and manufacturers would start to take note.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Corkheader - I was attempting to do something along these lines when i started this thread. Was primarily only interested in vans around 3.5 T for friends who were in the market for one. So read every problem I could find on a lot of forums and made notes.
What makes it difficult is that posts tend to be more subjective rather than objective as they are someones opinion. eg someone sees a badly sealed area as a major fault , others as just a niggle.
Still, I think your idea is a good one and hope it is followed up on.


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## Corkheader (Aug 25, 2008)

Gretchibald -

I agree it would need to have some structure to it, it would be a help to owners and prospective owners as there is a wealth of information on here with some manufacturers monitoring and others not but its buried.

I also think our collective weight would have some influence. 

Cheers - John


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi Graham we spent a lot of time looking for a van we liked the look of the Chieftain.
Then along came a Hobby 750 right price.

The hobby 10 years old, had a few probs as you would expect however mostly to do with the cold freeze of 2011 and resulting water leaks.

As with most other items those made a few years ago were a built better those made a more than a few years ago were brick s--t houses and really built to last. Now we all want "style" built to a cost and last doesn't meant last it means till it falls to bits in the not too distant future.

Really sorry for those who have bought new and have faults it really tarnishes the dream

Kev


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

I have just tagged on some ????? after your original thread title Gretchibald so as to make it clear you are asking a question and not making a statement


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