# Best Exhaust ??? Walker/Bosal Sorted,BUT Bigger Dissaster!!



## 112477

Hi just had an unlucky going on with a brand new full Walker Exhaust causing more noise itself but also pressure in the cab building up in the ears and causing pain etc I think.???
Anyone techie know if a Bosal one is likey to be quiter and not affecting the ears so much pressure wise or whatever it is, pulses etc??. I hear they are better built.
Sadly got to pay again for another OK system and then hope the one going back is accepted as being faulty??? Sure !!!!
Any suggestions of systems etc would be greatly appreciated.
Its for a Talbot Express 2.5D 1994.
Many thanks in advance Mark.


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## drcotts

Bosal are usually ok. 
I used to have to have one modified each time i had to replace the one on my old fiat glendale 
If you are planning keeping the van for any length of time you could get a stainless steel one made to suit. You wouldnt have to worry again.

there are several places that do this. I think one advertises in MMM.

Phill


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## CliveMott

My experience is that Genuine Manufacturers replacements work and last the best, even longer than a stainless steel exhaust!

Its your money!

C.


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## 112477

Thanks for the replies chaps.
I do wish I had possibly gone for a stock item if you can actually get them now.
The walker that went on I find very boomey compared to the one on before, especially in certain spots in the rev range also the odd ear presuure thing.
A Bosal is in for possible fitting on Friday but be really grateful to hear from anyone if its likely to be quieter and better than a walker, it was just bad luck that came instead of a bosal and went on, oh well etc.
Any Talbot express 2.5 d drivers got any thoughts please as well.
Many thanks Mark.


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## pauwilson

I had 5 years working as a fitter and found both to be good makes, personally I prefered Walker but maybe that was just because that was what we fitted most. We did get a few back with dodgy / loose baffles but they were changed under warranty no problems. 

How long has it been on? They sometimes take a while to "carbon up" and that normally quietens them down quite a bit. If it is a rattling type sound then get it changed, if it is just tinny then it might be worth waiting a bit longer before going to the expense of changing again.

Paul


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## stendec

I replaced the rusted out front exhaust section (manifold to first box) on my Autohomes Landliner, Talbot Express/Peugeot 2.5 turbo diesel, last week. It was never boomy though, just getting noisier from a crack. 
The replacement was a Borsal, though the one listed was not the correct size, 45mm diameter, whereas the turbo one is 57mm, listed under Citroen C25 turbo.
Exhaust volume level now back to normal.
Stendec


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## 112477

Thanks Paul and Stendec, there was more dissaster today but I`ll tell further on.

Exhaust wise the new Walker was taken off today and a new bosal system fitted and much better all round, smoother, quieter, less boomey and the van just feels better. Ear pressure problem, simply gone,???? Hooray.!

However to test drive it to find all of that good news I had to traverse the more bad news first so would really appreciate some thoughts adice on this issue.

When I hopped in to the cab and turned the Key the first thing I was met with was vibration and noise going right through the cab and chassis. 

When you put on a little throttle it smoothed away at higher revs so rather than go straight back in to the garage I though go for a quick drive it may just settle, a little hopeful maybe as really bad,

Anyway once off it was OK and good news as above exhaust wise, but at any point back to idle or near it was grim, and loud and feeling very bad news for the van, manifold etc etc.

The horse shoe clamp isn`t too tight etc.

One thing I had unfortunately asked the garage chap to check the rear near the gear box engine mount, he said it was OK but had tightened the odd bolt there.

Anyway came back after about 15 miles driving please with the exhaust but really worried abouit the vibes and throbbing etc, he looked etc and took out the wheel and thought it was two pulleys at the side/back of the engine that run the water pump etc as very loosish and rumbly, but I wasn`t so sure as felt bigger and more vibey if you will.

But anyway he was finishing for the night so said to come back after the weekend.

Anyway any advice really appreciated, the exhaust isn`t touching anywhere etc but by gum its a rough old job at idle now, nasty.

Many thanks Mark.


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## Majill

Hi there Mark,
Almost sure that chappie overtightened that mounting. We had exactly the same as you describe after I tried a short term fix on our old girl. it all returned to normal after I slacked it back to what it was before....I think he's pulled it up until there is metal to metal contact and that's where the vibration is coming from. I changed ours myself...not very difficult if your handy with the spanners. I contacted Delfin Designs to get the spare...about £75 a year ago. Make sure when you order the replacement that you have the larger of the two mounts that are available...I think the small one is for the petrol engine.

Regards Mal


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## 112477

Hi Mal where would it be too tight please, I can see there are two bolts where it holds on to the gear box, or is it the big one through the rubber ? etc.
Many thanks a bit woried as so bad it may split the manifold etc.
best Mark.


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## stendec

Hi Mark, the single bolt through the center of the rubber should not be overtightened. If the chassis bracket and the gearbox bracket touch the vibration from the engine will be transferred directly to the chassis and the function of the rubber (to absorb the engine vibration) will be lost. 
Check that the two brackets are not touching.
There is a good photo of the area on page 70 of the Talbot Express, Peugeot J5 owners handbook, the section refering to the gearbox drain plug, dipstick etc.
Stendec


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## 112477

Thanks for the advice, I tell you this forum is fantastic, thats obviously what it is, just kicking myself I asked him to see if it looked OK and him then tightening it.
Thing is I don`t have the spanners, he isn`t back till tuesday and I need to use the van late sunday and monday.
I got in touch with a chap who does great little jobs out the back of my father inlaws and he is there sunday morning and said he will slacken it off for me but its 10+ miles, as I say if I keep the revs up its OKish but seroiuosly worried about my manifold driving there, or will the vibes just be affecting the chassis really.
I slackened off the manifold clamp a little to make it a bit easier on it there for now.
Thanks again I really appreciate this advce and help.
Could anyne please post a pic of that bracket etc, I have the manual on cd but its vanished, sodds law.
Best wishes Mark
PS serious tool buying needed.


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## stendec

Hi Mark,
If the vibration is being caused by an overtightened engine mount it shouldn't affect the manfold. That should be ok if the exhaust system is properly suspended with flexible mounts. Mine is held in place with four oval rubber rings, two each end of the rear silencer between hooks on the chassis and hooks on the pipe/silencer assembly.
Attached is the view from underneath the gearbox area. The two sides of the dark bracket (on the left) coming down from the chassis should be parallel. If they are bent towards each other then the centre bolt has been overtightened. Looking at it, this seems unlikely as it's a pretty hefty bracket and would take some force to bend it. Anyway, see how it looks.
Stendec


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## 112477

Hi thanks for the pic and the advice, at least I can drive down tomorrow with less manifild angst.
Its an odd business and not having a lucky fortnight all in with the old van. Good job I`m addicted to it.
thanks again,
Mark.


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## stendec

A further quick thought. There is normally a steel tube through the middle of the rubber in this type of engine mount. The bolt then goes through this tube making it impossible to compress the rubber as the bolt tightens the sides of the bracket onto the ends of the tube. 
Anyway, a close examination should reveal whether there is any contact between the two mounting brackets.
Stendec.


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## Majill

Hi again Mark,
Stendec has answered it all I think. Whatever that chap has done has caused a metal to metal contact, or the mounting has completely collapsed and the central tube is resting in the bottom of the mounting. Best wishes in resolving this little glitch  

Regards Mal


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## 112477

Hi Stendec and Mal, unfortunately matters have progressed and its even more of a dissaster.

I had a phone back from my cousin of the many spanners, bolts, tools etc etc you name it so rumbled over tonight.

Its not the support thats fine, but did put another better bolt in the lower connection to the gear box.

My cousin put a light under there and we both grubbed around until he realised its the long drive shaft carrier bearing thats the problem. It went big time last year and the same local garage did it for me however now, the whole bearing is loose in its very badly designed mounting and flapping about all over and the alloy looks to have, worn away somewhat around it.
Press it up tight knocking etc gone.
It looks like a right old heath robinson type design with just two daft lugged bolt things sort of holding it in.
we thought maybe the one that was fitted wasn`t quite large enough so its since worn loose as not flush and tight etc, the bearing center itself is still OK, but the problem and vibes seem to be getting worse as we go.
Any thoughts on what to do but no idea how I could do anything to put strength back in to that bearing set up.
I thought of filling in as best I could with chemical metal etc etc but if anyone had this same problem advice really appreciated, some sort of add on or bolted shell bearing type set up would have been tons better
Best, In Hope !!!! Mark.


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## vardy

I'm sure the guys who know more than me are absolutely right about it having been unwise to tighten whatever bolts!

When the mount on mine was 'on the way out' it produced a vibration - noticed first through the gear lever and immediate floor area. Subtle difference in engine sound that didn't feel at all right. (girly description).

From visual, whilst in the bracket, the solid rubber looked perfectly alright - and the (very knowledgeable) mechanic who diagnosed it said I'd be fine to run it about until I got the part, as it would take some considerable time scraping on the (manifold?) to wreck it.

I ended up with 3 of the bloody things. I ordered one from Peugeot - they only do the big one. - Too big (there are 2 sizes). Then I sent to Delfin, - gotta send money up front. I couldn't get under the van to measure so BIG one again! More dosh up front and a wait (coming from Italy) - Bingo! Small package, huge difference to van, unbelievable. 

Money back from Delfin, who also bought back the Peugeot part which had lost it's packaging so happiness all round.

Two things - the rubber that had seemed OK was sloppy in it's casing once off the van and I could fiddle with it. - And Delfin said the older type van 94 like mine takes the smaller size part. -Although mine is a 1.9D. Measure across it to be sure, there's a goodly difference. Of course, your engine size may mean bigger part, but Delf elves said the age was the criteria for mine.

Good luck with your bolts! - Helena.

PS Just read the bit on THIS page about the bearing. That is so upsetting. Hope it gets sorted - think about the folk who restore from a steering wheel and a couple of axles. Gotta be mad but wouldn't be any other way.


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## 112477

Hi Helena, thanks for the good advice, unfortunately as you noticed, now into big problems with the van and the alloy where longer drive shaft carrier bearing sits.
To be honest if I could zip back the cost of 2 new exhausts etc and it had done it then I would have just sold the van for £150-£200 or something and let it go.
I`m not sure if packing with something around the bearing etc will work, but once I ram what chemical metal I can get in to the gap around the bearing possibly with a couple of panel pins etc wedged in I will be a bit stuffed, even if it holds for a while, but can`t see it.
Just getting the bearing fitted was £80 as drive shaft out job etc, but any sort of retooling /weding/grinding etc is going to be a dip into the unknown anyway and I don`t think I can cope with the whole thing.
£365 owed to the garage for nothing really now.
With it being an old home done job its probably not worth that really, also the tax is out this month,
Should I just scrap it and but a car ??????

Anyway I hope someone has a expericance of this hopeless?? bearing situation.
Thanks again Mark.


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## vardy

This is very sad. Have you been on the 'preloved' site Talbot forum - someone will have done this before for now't I'm sure.

That Delfin place are also enthusiasts so will probably know if it's had it. They get a fair bit of mention on here, so I reckon that's a reasonable trade for some advice. - Just cut top off my thumb with electric trimmers, so won't stay on!!! 8O


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## stendec

Hi Mark,
This is an extract from a fairly long (and interesting) chat between a guy called Kernow_kamper and "The Hutchies" on this site some time ago Re. Talbot Express, Autohomes Landliner repairs.

_Reply from The Hutchies
As far as the o/s driveshaft bearing is concerned, the aluminium casting on ours has been broken for the last 6000 miles without any ill effect! The casting split just above the two lower bolts and had clearly had a dodgy repair at some point in the past. Looking at the bearing, it was clear that it couldn't move anywhere due to the exhaust downpipe. Also, some models didn't have the bearing fitted at all, apparently, so we left it as it was and checked it regularly but it has been no problem whatsoever. Might replace it some day........_

How much sideways/up-down movement is there on your driveshaft?
Stendec


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## 112477

Hi sorry for the delay getting back, The post I did a few days ago simply seems to have not shown up, odd as it showed as posted etc.
Anyway thanks for all of the help and advice etc.
I actually had the bearing set in some hard gunk and sure enough the second rertaining bolt had no nut on and someone had hammered the end of the bolt so you couldn`t ahve got a nut on or off so when the bearing was done a year or so ago you could only do up one of them.
The chap who set the bearing in took the other bolt out, sawed the end off, luckily found a nut for the 7mm !!!! bolt and fixed it all up.

Another 35 notes later.

Sadly though its not cured the problem !!!!! wierd as it did seem to be the driveshaft bearing etc, maybe just bracing it took out some of the vibes.

Anyway i`m now back to wondering if the engine mounting is the problem, my usual garage chap still says no, but its odd its only done it since that was tightened etc.
Looking at it, it doesn`t appear to be touching metal wise though !!!!

Anyway with the major vibing going on I had to do something for the manifold etc so I have done a temporary fix myself and adjusted the throttle up more so its evened out nearly completely.
I`ve done it as slow still as possible so when cold its still rough but when warmed its OK, helps with then odd gear change to where the engine had chance to settle back to mega vibe land briefley and junctions are copeable for the moment. Its alittle high but not crazy or too much.

The gagare chap has told me I still have to pay him for taking the faulty exhaust off and fitting the new one and cost etc, and the charges still apply for the faulty one.
He says I may get part of the cost back for the faulty actual exhaust but I will probably still have to pay a returns fees so looks like even if walker accpet the faults i`ll still be paying for all but 2.

The current fix is only temporaty but as its a home done old banger really its only worth about what the 2 exhauts have cost me so far, plus I just had to tax it so even as is I may just keep on with the temporary fix and look for a cheap car. I need an expense break.
Best Mark.


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## 128820

stendec said:


> Hi Mark, the single bolt through the center of the rubber should not be overtightened. If the chassis bracket and the gearbox bracket touch the vibration from the engine will be transferred directly to the chassis and the function of the rubber (to absorb the engine vibration) will be lost.
> Check that the two brackets are not touching.
> There is a good photo of the area on page 70 of the Talbot Express, Peugeot J5 owners handbook, the section refering to the gearbox drain plug, dipstick etc.
> Stendec


Hi Stendec. I'm a newcomer to keeping a motorhome, and I bought a 20+ year old Talbot Express Autohome. When I bought it, the gearchange was like looking for the last dumpling in a pan of stew! Fixed the linkage and now it's great. However, had this bad chassis vibration and changed the engine and gearbox mountings and couldn't figure out why it's still there. Your message has clued me in! I've got the bolts too tight on each one. 
I'll have a go at them tomorrow. One thing I might be cheeky to ask - you mention a reference to the handbook. I've looked everywhere for one without success. Would it please be possible at all for me to purchase from you, a set of photocopies of the pages of the handbook, at a cost to be decided by you. I could really do with one of those as most of the time I'm working blind without it. 
Very pleased to hear 
WelshWanderer


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## stendec

Hi Welsh Wanderer,
Good to hear from another Talbot Express Autohomes owner. Which model do you have, mine is the 1991/92 Landliner, 6 berth, 22ft? Had it for almost 3 years, great fun.
I have the Talbot Express Peugeot J5 Owners Handbook which covers just the basic van, oil capacities, routine maintenance, dashboard layout etc. A5 size and probably about 60 pages in English.
Also have the Autohomes Owners Manual which covers electrics, water, gas, fridge, cassette toilet etc.
Let me know which areas you need information about. Probably the easiest way is for me to scan the relevant pages and email them to you. That way you can print or save to disc. I'll need to dig out my old scanner for this so will need a few days.
On gearbox problems have a look at http://www.jktowers.fsnet.co.uk/motorhome/TalbotExpressGearbox.htm
Also worth getting Peter Russek manual for Citroen C25, Fiat Ducato Talbot Express.
Best Wishes,
Stendec


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## 128820

*Handbooks Etc Talbot Express*

Hi Stendec, Great news about the handbooks! Mines a 1984 Talbot Express, and I think that it's a highwayman? I don't know for sure as it doesn't say anything on the Registration paper and the man I bought it off in Gloucester didn't know either.. It's shown only as a 'motor caravan'. It's a 4 berth, and is 18'6" long and 2.79 metres high. Considering its age, it is in reasonable order, but does need a little TLC - started on that already! Had fun sorting out the gearchange LOL.
I've searched everywhere for the handbooks for it without success. Wrote to Peugeot and they 'Haven't got any documentation for a vehicle of this age'.
Very useful. Even posted a notice on Ebay and in the local papers - no joy.
So anything you can help me with will be great. Still haven't worked out what I'm doing with the Fridge, The electric box on the wall, or the boiler unit over the sink. As for the dashboard buttons etc, I still don't know what half of them do, or how to change the bulbs. I looked on Ebay and found the Peter Russel book you referred to. The seller is sending me a copy of that on CD but states that it only refers to the mechanicals and won't tell me about the inside of the van. Pleased to recompense you for any expenses - Only too grateful for the help..


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## clarkandrew45

drcotts said:


> Bosal are usually ok.
> I used to have to have one modified each time i had to replace the one on my old fiat glendale
> If you are planning keeping the van for any length of time you could get a stainless steel one made to suit. You wouldnt have to worry again.
> 
> there are several places that do this. I think one advertises in MMM.
> 
> Phill


Hi philip, For me bosal is much better than the other brand. I used this brand for almost 1year and still im happy with the its quality.


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