# Payloads And Dealers!



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Do motorhome dealers read these forums? I hope so!

I have posted a few threads lately about finding the right van with the right payload and there is also an ongoing thread where the OP is about to buy a van but doesn't know if it will have enough payload to take a scooter and rack.

I have emailed and contacted a few dealers and sellers now and they haven't got a clue. One seller (a dealer) on ebay didn't even know what a payload was and when he came back to me said "oh its 4005KG". Dipstick.

I saw this on another forum http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/scales-profile-axlewheel-scales-upto-1500kg-reich-p-2829.html

Ok so Its a set of scales for weighing your van and at £172 probably too expensive for us all to buy individually but every dealer should have one so that when we are potentially buying a van off you and ask the all important questions about payload you can go outside and weight the thing for us. Its really not difficult and its something thats very important.

How many adds to you see that actually tell you the payload? Hardly any thats how many! Probably the most important thing you need to know and its never mentioned.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

At a show last year I was interested in a MH and wanted the weight info from the VIN plate. There were 3 stage [Etape] plates, Etape 1 Fiat which was blank, Etape 2 which was Alko and completed and Etape 3 which was Rapido which was also completed. The sales staff did not have a clue regarding the stage plates or that the latest i.e. Etape 3 plate superceded the previous ones.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

I've only ever had payload discussions with one dealer - Cranham - not a clue - not even the basics.


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

I would hazard a guess, that most owners don't have a clue either.

I certainly didn't when I purchased my MH, I liked what I saw, it had the majority of what I wanted, I purchased it !!

Payload, never entered the reasoning for the purchase.

I have added a MBike Rack, no bike at present was stolen.

I weighed it when full was just under the axle limits, this was for my normal month away excursion.

I know I am no where near the limits in normal operation for weekends or short holidays.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I notice the sales persons grin fall slightly when they come to greet us and I start babbling on about Payloads, rear axle weights and Alko Chassis etc. I guess what they really want are dumb first timers who are easily pleased with being shown something sparkly.

It cant just be me though that asks these questions. I keep emailing dealers, specialists and even the likes of SVTECH and they either dont get back to me or havent got a clue.

How many times have we seen posts where people have bought vans only to find they are overweight even before the Misses loads all her frocks? 

I posted this mainly as dealers do read these forums so perhaps they might consider taking payload sersiously. For sure Im not buying my next van until its been weighed on each axle front and back.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Bought my MH from Three Counties Motorhomes in Poole a few years ago. I aked the question about payload. 

Their reaction was to take the van straight up to the nearby weighbridge (whilst I waited  ) and they then presented me with the (timed and dated) weighbridge ticket showing EXACTLY what the unladen weight was and what the ACTUAL available payload was!! 

BRILLIANT customer service that continued once I had parted with my hard earned. A great company to deal with that have won (well deserved) awards for customer service for many years now. 

I cannot praise them enough (and I am VERY difficult to please :roll: :roll


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Mr. Plodd's right get it weighed before buying ,and If you have already got a m/home weigh empty and then full as going on holiday including people likely to be in it , deduct empty m/h from full m/h and you have your own payload add that onto the unladen weight of the new m/h and check against weights Plate on new vehicle and add on anything you are likely to buy extra ,like a M/cycle , that's what we did .
PS. it's advisable to have the axles weighed at the same time on old and new vehicle ,then with care you can see if you are likely to overload an axle as well. If a salesperson don't want to do it walk away from deal.

Tony A.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Bought my MH from Three Counties Motorhomes in Poole a few years ago. I aked the question about payload.
> 
> Their reaction was to take the van straight up to the nearby weighbridge (whilst I waited  ) and they then presented me with the (timed and dated) weighbridge ticket showing EXACTLY what the unladen weight was and what the ACTUAL available payload was!!
> 
> ...


Thanks

This is exactly what should happen but if they had their own scales they wouldnt have had to loose a sales person for half an hour. I must admit though I would prefer a weighbridge ticket myself.

Why is it all the good dealers are hundreds of miles away!


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## colpot (Jun 9, 2008)

we are quite lucky that we have a free public weighbridge 10 mins up the road from us. Our first two motorhomes I never even thought about the payload but the last 2 I have weighed. The Rapido because it seemed that we loaded it to the gunnels when we went away - I loaded it for a Holiday (wife/full diesel/gas/water) and took it to local scrap yard (i didnt know about the free one then) and was pleasantly surprised that I had some spare (cant remember what it was though!)
The Hymer I did the same and took to the public weighbridge and found I have 360kg to play with (130kg on the front axle and 450kg on the back)


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's not only dealers that cannot be bothered about such a basic requirement as a decent payload but the motorhome press as a whole.Time and again magazines who should know better recommend vans to their readers with quite ridicules payloads or quote a payload based on no standard formula whatsoever. The testers seem quite unable to use a weighbridge as part of their test procedure and then calculate a payload figure based on the European standard. I wonder why, its not rocket science.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Barry, don't bother with the Reich scales - they are rubbish. I bought some, the intention being to check the weight of the motorhome before I left our hous in Spain (no local weighbridge).

Luckily tested it as soon as it arrived, every time I weighed each of the wheels, exactly as they advised, it came up with a different figure and the axle weights bore no relation to the known ones from the weighbridge.

On vehicle weights I think the manufacturers are as bas as the details. I believe that Hymer exclude 'extras' like the fold down front bed, fridge etc from their published unladen weights. Had mine updated to 3850kgs and struggle to stay within the limit taking into account extra leisure battery, awning, Oyster satellite dish, bike rack with wheelchair, Gaslow bottles,fresh water and diesel plus a few of my clothes and a 'few' more for SWMBO. I have removed the massive heavy table which helped a bit


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

colpot said:


> we are quite lucky that we have a free public weighbridge 10 mins up the road from us. Our first two motorhomes I never even thought about the payload but the last 2 I have weighed. The Rapido because it seemed that we loaded it to the gunnels when we went away - I loaded it for a Holiday (wife/full diesel/gas/water) and took it to local scrap yard (i didnt know about the free one then) and was pleasantly surprised that I had some spare (cant remember what it was though!)
> The Hymer I did the same and took to the public weighbridge and found I have 360kg to play with (130kg on the front axle and 450kg on the back)


Hmm. Thats interesting. Can I have your van please? It sounds suitable for a rack and bike on the back and if thats it in your Avatar it looks like it has a rear lounge!



javea said:


> Barry, don't bother with the Reich scales - they are rubbish. I bought some, the intention being to check the weight of the motorhome before I left our hous in Spain (no local weighbridge).
> 
> Luckily tested it as soon as it arrived, every time I weighed each of the wheels, exactly as they advised, it came up with a different figure and the axle weights bore no relation to the known ones from the weighbridge.
> 
> On vehicle weights I think the manufacturers are as bas as the details. I believe that Hymer exclude 'extras' like the fold down front bed, fridge etc from their published unladen weights. Had mine updated to 3850kgs and struggle to stay within the limit taking into account extra leisure battery, awning, Oyster satellite dish, bike rack with wheelchair, Gaslow bottles,fresh water and diesel plus a few of my clothes and a 'few' more for SWMBO. I have removed the massive heavy table which helped a bit


Ah then maybe its not such a good idea. I wouldnt buy them but I thought dealers should have them but if they are not accurate then it could make matters worse.

I still think they should be more savvy though and certainly be more helpful when it comes to questions on weights.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

javea said:


> I believe that Hymer exclude 'extras' like the fold down front bed, fridge etc from their published unladen weights.


Unless they have made a fundamental policy change I do not believe this to be the case. Hymer has always been known for including more than many other manufacturers - they certainly included the fridge and all the beds in mine. Being a bit pedantic, it's not the unladen weight that one should consider, but the MIRO which is what Hymer quote including water, gas, fuel, 75 kg driver and EHU cable (it may be 90% fuel - I cannot remember).
However, the published MIRO is for the standard model since the actual MIRO can change depending on what the initial purchaser specifies in terms of options. Extras have to be allowed for within the available payload. Extras can include things like: bigger engine, automatic gearbox, extra leisure battery, satellite dish, tow-bar, bike rack etc.

The published MIRO for my Hymer was 3,000 kg, but when I allow for options and extras that were on it when I bought it, plus those that I have added since, the additional load is 246 kg.

I think that no matter how open the manufacturers might try to be, it is a case of caveat emptor as Barryd outlined in his original post. And dealers should do a lot more to help buyers through the process. As an aside, it seems to me that motorhomes are getting heavier at a time when more people are likely to be restricted to 3,500 kg MAM. This seems to be caused by a combination of heavier base vehicles and the rush to add the latest labour-saving, comfort-inducing gadgets in order to appear more attractive than the competition. I cannot see how anything other than the smallest A-class (and many C-class) vans can now be rated at 3,500 kg and even then, there will be precious little payload. Perhaps a case of simplest was best?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

One of the reasons we went for an Exsis was the good payload, and it does have it as we put her fully loaded on a weigh bridge and did a full weigh and axle weigh.
We were well inside.

http://www.presse2010.hymer.com/csd-2010/Prices_technical_data_GB/Motorhome/TD_HYMER_Exsis-i_GB.pdf


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have just spent the last half hour trying to find the user payload for a Hymer B634. Not a chance. I think there are two chassis. 3500 and 3900KG. Colport I think has the 3900KG which must have something in the region of 800KG payload but can I find anything confirming that? Nope. Its acedemic anyway as there are none for sale anywhere.

I give up.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Fair comment Philip, must admit I forgot the extra weight of my 3.0 litre engine, it all mounts up, doesn't it?

Mike


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*No Support*

Hi, 
I posted two or so years ago saying that all motorhomes should have a weight cert issued on the day of sale as If you buy and drive home having transfrerred all your kit to the "new" van and are overloaded then its you as the driver that is prosicuted

How can you know the weight of any motorhome new or used?

I had zero support at the time - heads in the sand etc

Why do we not go public and have a No Cert no Sale campaign

Ray


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I am surprised that the payload issue is any surprise to anybody as a high percentage of motorhome owners are ex truckers or associated with the industry where payload is so very important.
I worked for probably the largest semi trailer (artic trailer) in the UK and our customers always knew the weight of the trailers, and some trailers were so weight sensitive that every single trailer went to a weigh bridge to confirm the weight.
I don't think we can completely blame the dealers, some will try to get away with what ever they can, some should know better and all really should know about payloads. It's those of us that have no idea what commercial vehicles are about and have no idea or even know what a payload is that is the problem. At the end of the day, we are all driving commercial vehicles and it is the drivers responsibility to know the vehicle weight.
I think far too many car drivers look at a M/H and think, "I fancy that" and don't realize the implications of driving a larger vehicle.

More education is needed, but it would be nice if the dealers also could be educated on the subject


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Who will keep newcomers right if not dealers. They have a duty of care to the customer, just like any other retailer.

They should be volunteering information about payloads in order that the customer can make an informed decision about any van they might consider buying.

I believe they don't do that as it would inevitably confuse many customers and they may loose sales as a result.

Let me put it this way. We know there are quite a few vans for sale with barely adequate payloads. Assume a customer who has done no research beyond checking that his driving licence allows him to drive it buys such a van from a dealer, loads it up with the bare essentials including water, gas etc. and sets off on a trip only to be stopped, weighed and found to be over weight. Of course that's an offence and the driver could face a penalty.

Now lets assume that van owner is angry that he was sold a van which was incapable of carrying the essentials to allow him to use it for the purpose he was sold it for. I think that van is not fit for purpose and the customer would have a very good case against the dealer for a full refund of their money and some damages, Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Never mind. By the time I eventually find my elusive replacement for Hank the Tank I will be an expert and will probably be able to recite axle weights and payloads for every van in my sleep. (assuming I can actually find the information in the first place)


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Motorhome Payload*

I have asked itchyfeet for the Payload on This 3 times and they fail to respond.

TM


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

:lol: c'mon you know the answer, I gave it to you a couple of years ago. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

tony


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Motorhome Payload*



teemyob said:


> I have asked itchyfeet for the Payload on This 3 times and they fail to respond.
> 
> TM


If the quoted 5000kg GVW is correct, the answer to your question about payload is probably somewhere in the region of 3/5ths of nothing  .

Regards,
John


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Weight A Minute*



GEMMY said:


> :lol: c'mon you know the answer, I gave it to you a couple of years ago. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> tony


Yes, I know this Tony. But in another ad elsewhere, they stated the chassis had a suspension upgrade.

There was some mention, not sure what terminology was used. But seemed to imply a higher payload.

Do you know the Payload of the Monaco Covina Tony?

Trev


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

*Re: Motorhome Payload*



teemyob said:


> I have asked itchyfeet for the Payload on This 3 times and they fail to respond.
> 
> TM


Yes. I have emailed a few both private and dealers (mainly dealers). I generally dont get an answer or a vague answer or just a plain wrong answer.

I found this last night. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hymer-B64...mpers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item3374a49631

It claims to have nearly a ton of payload, has a rear lounge, winterised. Good grief it ticks all the boxes!!! Whoohoo I thought. I would prefer something newer but it looks in good nick.

Then I read this. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-49639-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html

So. Which one is true? I have emailed the seller questioning claims of a mighty ton of payload so will see if he responds.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

All (most) dealers are interested in is your money !!! and they adopt the attitude of "Its not my job to tell you, your the buyer"

Its worrying just how many dealers don't even seem to be aware of (or even care about) the driving licence issues associated with MH's over 3500Kg.


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