# Rubbish Payload?



## ThePrisoner

Hi All

I have put a deposit down on a new van and am getting worried about the payload on it. These are the figures from the website:

Maximum Weight (Front Axle) 1850kgs (36.33 cwt) 
Maximum Weight (Rear Axle) 2000kgs (39.28 cwt) 
Maximum Towing Weight 2000kgs (39.28 cwt) 
Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt) 
Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt) 
Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt) 
Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt) 
Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt) 
MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt) 

On my current van the payload is 565kg and we sometimes struggle with that when we go away for a long time. Can someone explain the Conventional Loads and Personal Effects Payload to me please. 

We have asked for a rear ladder and roof bars to be fitted along with an extra 110ah battery, towbar, awning and solar panel. Then we will want to fit 2 bikes onto a thule bike rack. 

I have the feeling we may have made a bad move here.    . BTW....laymans terms please.


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## GEMMY

What's the van :?: :?: :?: 

tony


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## autostratus

ThePrisoner said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have put a deposit down on a new van and am getting worried about the payload on it. These are the figures from the website:
> 
> Maximum Weight (Front Axle) 1850kgs (36.33 cwt)
> Maximum Weight (Rear Axle) 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Maximum Towing Weight 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt)
> Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt)
> Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt)
> Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt)
> Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt)
> MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt)
> 
> On my current van the payload is 565kg and we sometimes struggle with that when we go away for a long time. Can someone explain the Conventional Loads and Personal Effects Payload to me please.
> 
> We have asked for a rear ladder and roof bars to be fitted along with an extra 110ah battery, towbar, awning and solar panel. Then we will want to fit 2 bikes onto a thule bike rack.
> 
> I have the feeling we may have made a bad move here.    . BTW....laymans terms please.


Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt)
MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt) 
Gives
Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt)
From which you should deduct
rear ladder and roof bars to be fitted along with an extra 110ah battery, towbar, awning and solar panel

I fear you may not be able to take a passenger or................


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## cavs

Hi Prisoner,

I've no idea what "Conventional Loads and Personal Effects Payload" mean.

My approach would be to take the Mass in Running Order (old terms - unladen weight) from the MTPLM (gross vehicle weight in old money), which gives your payload (what you can put aboard). 3,500 kg - 3,286 kg = 214 kg, which is what the web site specification gives for the Max User Payload.

I believe that the Mass in Running Order would be the weight ex-works, before you add "rear ladder and roof bars to be fitted along with an extra 110ah battery, towbar, awning and solar panel". I think this is likely to put you near your limit before personal effects and yourselves are put aboard.

Time for second thoughts? 8O 

Stephen


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## peribro

It sounds as though you are going to have a problem. May be worth give SV Tech a call to see if they are able to increase the max gross weight.


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## zulurita

I am afraid that pay load is too small.

One reason we didn't buy a new Auto-Trail Navajo as the pay load was in the 200's kg.


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## raynipper

And even some of these declared weights are slightly favourable.

How about when the van is full of fuel, water and gas.? You are going to be illegal most of the time.

Ray.


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## wakk44

Our payload is 450kg,which is just about the minimum for us with 2 adults,2 dogs and everything apart from the kitchen sink when mrs wakk has finished packing :roll:


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## Alfa_Scud

Yup I agree with what's said above. We were minutes from putting a deposit down on a Bessacar E410 three years ago (on an X250), nothing at all had been mentioned about payload, & We were wet behind the ears.

However I just decided to go through the brochure to check everything & noticed that, at that time, those models were on a 3300kg chassis, giving a payload of, if I remember rightly, about 240kg. I realised even then that it was nowhere near enough!! We promptly decided not to bother & got our current van, a couple of years older but on a bigger chassis with loads more payload!


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## drcotts

There are 2 main weights that you have to look at

MTPLM or the max weight the van can ever be is 3500

Mass in running order is the van when you pick it up with none of your stuff in and it should have a full tank of fuel and water. 

The other silly stuff is just a daft way to tell you what you can put in and if you add up

Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt) 
Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt) 
Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt)

plus the mass in running order you will find it adds up to the max weight (or MTPLM of 3500)

so you can add about 280 kg to the van in respect of extra stuff like solar panels sat dishes etc which to be honest isnt a lot.

if i were you i would take the van straight to a weighbridge without putting anything in and see what it weighs.


My missus moans when i go on about all the extra stuff she rams in which is hardly ever used. Who wants 8 paisr of trousers for a weekend away for christs sake :lol:


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## 113016

Give SvTech a call.
They are just in the process of uprating ours from 3500kg to 4100kg gross
The payload was around the 500kg mark and will now be somewhere between 1000kg and 1100kg
Won't know for sure until weighing.
More importantly are the axle weights, particularly the rear.
Cost us £240 plus vat

edit.
I forgot to say that ours is on the Maxi Chassis with 16 inch wheels and has Airide.


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## 113016

I think that the problem is that we as customers want more and more inside and outside our vans.
One manufacturer will fit a new extra as standard and then another manufacturer will follow and then put something extra again to get an edge.
Also they are getting far too luxurious, not a problem with higher weight chassis but for the magical 3500kg it is a serious problem.
Another thing I have noticed is that most UK vans have a full cooker, this must add weight, what is wrong with a smev hob and a smev oven/hob? I would have thought that this is lighter.
How many of us seriously cook a roast dinners? not many.
The only way that they can get the weight down is to fit lighter products and thinner or inferior timber and fittings.
I for one would rather have a van that is stronger, more durable and more serviceable than just looking good.
Rant over!


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## JeanLuc

The weight information as displayed means that, to all intents and purposes, this vehicle is unusable as an effective motorhome.

The total payload is 3500-3286 = 214 kg.
All the other figures are added to arrive at 214.

So, "Conventional Payload" of 75 kg looks like the standard allowance for a driver - you may well weigh more than 75 kg!
Optional Equipment, if you have it fitted, weighs 43 kg

That leaves you just 96 kg for everything else, which will allow you to carry one passenger and a few clothes.

Regarding the optional equipment, you have an allowance of 43 kg within the displayed data. A second battery will weigh 25 - 30 kg, The roof bars and ladder will use up most, if not all of the rest of the 43 kg.

Definitely ask both SVTech and the dealer about up-rating the MAM (maximum authorised mass) otherwise, I fear you will always be travelling with an illegally over-loaded vehicle unless you carry virtually nothing in it.

Sorry to be another bearer of bad news, but you may be better off backing out of the deal and trying to get the deposit transferred to another, better planned vehicle.

Philip


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## 113016

Then you have extra equipment and water if you wild as we do.
We normally start with a full 130 litre tank and at least 4 x 5 litre containers = 150kg approx plus 2 x 11 kg of gas. and of course the obligatory 6 bottles of plonk  
I think 200kg is used up already.


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## TDG

214 Kg far too restrictive  
Reactivate your search :wink:


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## ThePrisoner

GEMMY said:


> What's the van :?: :?: :?:
> 
> tony


Hi Gemmy

It is the new Elddis Aspire 255

Link: http://www.elddis.co.uk/motorhomes/1002/aspire_255.html


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## JeanLuc

Having checked the site from your link, the MIRO includes an allowance of 75kg for the driver, full fuel and 90% water & gas.

So, the available 214kg has to cover any optional equipment (see my earlier post), things like satellite dish, TV, the passenger, any adjustment for the driver's weight over/under 75kg, all personal effects, food, etc., and any other equipment you want to carry.

Still much too low in my opinion.

I assume you don't want a tow-bar, otherwise this has to come off the 214kg too.

Philip


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## ThePrisoner

I assume you don't want a tow-bar, otherwise this has to come off the 214kg too.

Philip[/quote]

I do. Back to the drawing board me thinks.

Just trying to contact the dealer as we speak.


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## SpeedyDux

I've been looking into the possibility of an upgrade next year to a coachbuilt.

As a rule of thumb, if you start from a basic 6 metre long compact coachbuilt model, every extra metre of bodywork seems to add roughly 100Kg - 150 Kg to the MIRO. If you start putting in lots of luxury kit such as 150 litre capacity fridge freezers that all adds significantly to the MIRO figure. 

If you are thinking of upgrading the plated GVW / MTPLM beyond 3500 Kg on a Fiat or Peugeot you need the heavy chassis which seems to have 16" wheels as standard not 15" wheels. 

Otherwise it's a slimline co-driver and hand luggage only. :wink: 

SD


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## erneboy

I wonder that a vehicle like this can be sold at all. It's not really fit for purpose. I am not attacking just this one, far from it. There have been many posts on this topic and the problem seems all to common.

I guess we need to have as many posts highlighting this problem as possible so that people are alerted to it. Perhaps that would force the converters to think things through a little better.

It seem very common for novices to buy their first van only to discover, as they learn about MHing, that they will have the greatest of difficulty using their new van within the law, Alan.


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## Alfa_Scud

Bloody hell, get it replated, that is a very nice van!

Haven't seen them before & I've never been bothered about a fixed bed because they tend to be continental & have dinettes, but the layout would suit us perfectly.

I like it - a lot!


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## pneumatician

*Payloads*

There have in the past been many strings regarding payloads including one where the members new 4 berth van had insufficient payload to carry the kids. Caveat Emptor.

Upgrading to anything over 3.5 ton also carries penalties some are not aware of, including speed restrictions, toll charges, and age related problems.

So when purchasing its not just a matter of what's the biggest van I can get on the drive ?
You have to consider the Van design. What Chassis, how much overhang, is the engine big enough?. ( our previous van had been uprated by AS from 3T to 3.2T). The current Mercedes has been down rated to 3.5T.

Steve


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## 113016

Our Fiat VIN plate states
Gross 3500kg
Axle 1/ 1850kg
Axle 2/ 2120kg


The Hymer build plate states (with no AiRide fitted)
Gross 3900kg
Axle 1/ 1850kg
Axle 2/ 2220kg

The Sv Tech uprate is due to Airide which I had fitted 2 years ago
Gross 4100kg
Axle 1/1850kg
Axle 2/ 2300kg

As you will see it is the rear axle that gets the uprate and the new gross is very near to the axle limits.

We won't be using her any differently however we will be weight legal all of the time (I hope)

Our Hymer has always had a revenue weight of 3500kg, which was a waste on a maxi chassis and it actually made the pay load lower due to the extra chassis weight.
This was possibly due to the previous owner having a licence restriction.


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## 113016

Some of the down side of the upgrade are.
Higher tolls (if they notice) but we don't use tolls
Village and car park weight restrictions
Go Box for Austria
Possible recovery vehicle problems
Speed Limits (lower)
Medical at 70 years of age.
New driver weight restriction and possibly limiting a resale, but it can always be down rated again.
Regarding the peages throughout Europe. Most Peage operators would assume that it was a 3500kg vehicle anyway and they are not going to check the VIN.
The up side is.
Much more room for wine!!


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## spartacus

I can't see that you'd achieve much with a replate on this as the spare capacity is on the front axle. The van is quite long and you'd want to use all that underbed storage so by the time you've got water onboard as well I reckon you'd be close to the 2000kg limit.

You aren't realistically going to get much storage over the front axles over and above what you've already got.

It seems to me they've created a super luxury van, and all the weight penalties that entails, on the wrong chassis.


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## bookworm

It is interesting that, on their website, Elddis list FOUR seperate notes regarding the weights!!
I guess they realise that they have made a mistake and this vehicle should be built on a Maxi, 4 tonne chassis.


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## grizzlyj

Two 20 stone people leaves 35kg for everything else 

Can anyone suggest why the manufacturer can't be held responsible for building something that as Erneboy suggests must be unfit for purpose?

Even suggesting that to the people who currently have your deposit, to seal the deal get them to pay for the upgrade if feasible from SVTech prior to collection (and payment)?

Jason


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## Rosbotham

I'm not defending Elddis but I can see exactly how this has happened. The 2xx Aspire range is essentially a copy of the 1xx Autoquest range, loaded with extra kit. Undoubtedly that's cheaper than developing a new range from scratch. That extra kit weighs though (436kg on the x55, to be precise), hence no payload availability. As others have said, should have been built on a heavy chassis....but that would have required more re-engineering.


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## 113016

I think that I would go and have good talk to your supplying dealer and explain how you feel and most importantly what you expect your new van to be able to carry.
Keep it nice and friendly and hopefully you will come away with a positive conclusion and you will feel much happier and satisfied.
If the dealer will not talk sensible to you and listen and also act on your concerns, then I would seek legal advice and pull out.
I would have thought that it is also in the dealers interest to address your concerns.
Just try first to keep it friendly but firm and hopefully you will have a good long lasting relationship with your dealer.
Remember you may require warranty work.


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## peejay

Hi;

Don't think this has been mentioned in the thread yet but...

The manufacturers stated MIRO is also allowed a +/- tolerance of 5% either way.
So your actual MIRO could vary between 3122kgs and 3450kgs if I've got my sums correct.

Truth is, you will never know unless it is taken straight to a weighbridge.

Graths advice in the post above sounds good to me.

No help to you but I remember back a few years when an Adria A class won 'motorhome of the year' in one of the mags and it too only had a few hundred kgs payload.

There should be some sort of mandatory acceptable percentage between the MGW and the MIRO in the industry to stop this happening.

Pete


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## pneumatician

*Payloads etc*

An interesting point has arisen from this string. 
I have fitted Air Assist on both my current and previous van and it is stressed that this does not increase the payload capacity of the Van.

Its fine to increase the payload of a van that is designed for the increase and has been de rated.

But to increase the payload above the current design limits will require new suspension, brakes etc.

I drove our AS Pollensa (Airides fitted) with a Scooter on the back which after covering some miles up and down the Alps I had weighed. I was 110kg over the rear axle limit (designer calculation cockup, me).

The handling was very interesting and steering was a one finger job especially when descending the Grimsel 

Steve


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## JeanLuc

Agree with the last point about air assistance, if the axle limits are not designed to enable an up-rate.

Perhaps the most important point from this thread is that it is ludicrous to buy a new motorhome and then have to have it up-rated, unless that is an ex-factory option offered by the manufacturer / converter.

In this instance, my searches suggest that the 3 series Boxer chassis is design-limited to 3.5 tonnes. There is a 4 series that is designed for heavier duties, but the Eldiss in question is built on a 3 series.

Manufacturers are well aware of the regulations regarding maximum weights and yet they seem to be incapable of promoting understanding of this issue amongst would-be purchasers, many of whom are new to motorhomes. It should be a requirement of the trade that they explain the situation to any intending purchaser. But then I suppose they would have to admit that the product has serious limitations in practical use for many people. Putting warnings in brochures to the effect that care must be taken not to overload the vehicle is, frankly, just not good enough. The purchaser will presume that a motorhome can be loaded with typical "going away gear".

Despite the somewhat technical nature of the weight and loading issue, owners have to understand it. If stopped and weighed and found to be over-loaded, there is no excuse. One cannot plead that the dealer didn't explain the problem. The manufacturer and dealer are not the culprits - the driver is!

Perhaps we should lobby for a nationwide campaign amongst manufacturers and dealers to improve education. There could be a common introductory information leaflet that has to be provided by all dealers BEFORE they are allowed to take a deposit. An industry voluntary scheme would be best, but if not, are there any legal / regulatory experts on here who could suggest how to go about establishing a new form of consumer protection for motorhome (and, I guess) caravan buyers?

Philip


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## 113016

All that I can say is that I was going to upgrade a couple of years ago with a different company than SvTech and they told me that they could get it a little higher as I had AiRide.
My van is on a Maxi and SvTech also got it a little higher as I have AiRide.
There must be a few variables such as tyres and disc or drum brakes.
Maybe the uprate by Hymer to 3900 was not at the limit and the new upgrade to 4100 is. But I was asked if I had AiRide and I was told that it could make a difference.


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## grizzlyj

It would only take a few lines in every magazine camper review to turn things around perhaps?

Jason


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## ob1

If there's one subject that makes my blood boil then payload is it. We drivers face no end of petty rules and regulations as to what we can or cannot do and yet converters are allowed to sell totally unsuitable for purpose vehicles, as the one in question clearly is, and get away with it.

The answer is quite simple really. Every converter should have to comply with the European Standard (EN1604-2) when quoting motorhome payload figures and then everyone would know where they stood, and more important, exactly how much payload they had. It would put a stop to the likes of the converter in question useing a load of hogwash to disguise the true facts. 

I'm quite sure that said vehicle will know win some dubious award from those that should know better, as has happened before.

Ron


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## MEES

*payload*

We had same problem and had done several journeys overloaded when through the forum I realised we had a problem. As novice owner one would think a 6 berth van 7.25 metres whick cam from dealer new with double bike rack, roof bars ladder etc would at least accomodate 2 adults dog bikes and modest kit.
Oh NO we had it replated to 4200 and that only just covers it.
Think if we weighed van empty with water,gas and bikes it would be over limit.
SV tec sorted it but now son in law cant drive it!
By the way has anyone done the test or whatever to get their license upgraded?
Hubby is 70 in 4 years so we will cross that bridge when we come to it


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## Jean-Luc

Full fuel, gas, water, fridge, food lockers, wardrobe plus two bikes, EHU cable, outdoor table and two chairs to sit at, two loungers, two recliners (all lightweight), a good few books, t.v., bedding, ware & cutlery for four, pots, pans, etc. etc.
Nearly forgot, the awning, sat dish, second battery set of boules, beauclaire, herself and myself and the really important bits and pieces in the garage I might need some day.

All up about 750kg. believe it or not, deduced from weigh-bridge figures.


Our unladen weight about 3,100kg., max weight 3,850, so just legal


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## trek

Figures from Elddis web site:- 

Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt)
Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt)
Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt)
Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt)
Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt)
MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt)

too me how ever you do the sums its not fit for use as required:- 
Personal Effects Payload 96kgs 
Optional Equipment Payload	43kgs 
Conventional Load 75kgs
total payload = 214kgs

MTPLM 3500kgs
Mass in Running Order 3286kgs
total payload = 214kgs


I find it shocking that a manufacturer can sell a leisure vehicle with a payload of just 214kgs !

& I feel the the dealer is being dishonorable when he is also selling accessories e.g. the extra battery, roof rack, towbar etc which will reduce this miserly payload even less

accessories to be fitted very rough guesses :-
Battery 25kgs
towbar 20kgs
roofrack 10kgs
ladder 10kgs
awning 10kgs 
= 75kgs

214-75 new payload of 140kgs & thats without your bikes or you passenger!

and anything placed at the rear of the vehicle past the rear axle has an even larger effect on the payload (like a childs see-saw)


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## tony50

ThePrisoner said:


> I assume you don't want a tow-bar, otherwise this has to come off the 214kg too.
> 
> Philip


I do. Back to the drawing board me thinks.

Just trying to contact the dealer as we speak. [/quote]

I had a 3.5 Tonnes gross vehicle weight ,it was useless, changed for a Rapido with gross weight of 4.6 Tonnes .loads of spare weight capacity ,my wife could have put in 2 kitchen sinks and we would have still had spare capacity :lol:

Tony A


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## pneumatician

*Rubbish Payload*

Our La Srada "Nova" built on a Mercedes 3.8T chassis de rated to 3.5T.

Fully laden with full fuel tank, motorbike in garage etc and ready to roll with driver and passenger :-

Front axle :- Max1600 Actual 1340kg

Rear axle :- Max2240 Actual 1920kg

Total De rated 3500 3260kg

So we still have some to play with. Obviously when towing the traler and the bike is out of the garage we are approx 100kg lighter.

Steve


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## Vennwood

Hi ThePrisoner,

As you can see from earlier posts the unanimous opinion is that you won't have enough payload.

I would think it a very grave mistake to go to SV TEC and get them to upgrade. You should only go that route if or when you have bought the vehicle and need more payload. In your case you haven't got it yet so don't tie yourself to any vehicle with problems before you start.

There are plenty of MH's around with much better payload - check them out first.

I have been saying on here for years now - the industry needs regulating and ALL MH's new or secondhand should be sold with a weight certificate so you can do a reality check before you buy.

Of course in reality that will never happen as it would make over 50% of all used MH's un-sellable.

Finally - last year when VOSA did a spot check on trucks, mainly foreign, they found that 83% of all MH's stopped were overweight. Even French police are starting to do roadside checks......


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## TDG

Vennwood said:


> ... - the industry needs regulating and ALL MH's new or secondhand should be sold with a weight certificate so you can do a reality check before you buy.....


Well said 8) 
The dealers sould, in an ideal world, explain these issues in clear and simple terms. 
But pigs will fly before ................. :roll:


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## duxdeluxe

Alfa_Scud said:


> Yup I agree with what's said above. We were minutes from putting a deposit down on a Bessacar E410 three years ago (on an X250), nothing at all had been mentioned about payload, & We were wet behind the ears.
> 
> However I just decided to go through the brochure to check everything & noticed that, at that time, those models were on a 3300kg chassis, giving a payload of, if I remember rightly, about 240kg. I realised even then that it was nowhere near enough!! We promptly decided not to bother & got our current van, a couple of years older but on a bigger chassis with loads more payload!


One reason why I'll never buy a Swift Bolero....... not with towbar and 3 litre engine. When Looking at possible replacement vans nowadays I always check the payload and towing capacity.


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## bertieburstner

*payload*

Michael le Caplain "tests" the Elddis Aspire 240 in the December edition of Which Motorhome. In the fact file it quotes the payload as 240kg. He gives it 4 stars.


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## TDG

*Re: payload*



bertieburstner said:


> Michael le Caplain "tests" the Elddis Aspire 240 in the December edition of Which Motorhome. In the fact file it quotes the payload as 240kg. He gives it 4 stars.


I give him and most others in the "Trade Press", *Nuls Points* :roll:


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## Vennwood

*Re: payload*



bertieburstner said:


> Michael le Caplain "tests" the Elddis Aspire 240 in the December edition of Which Motorhome. In the fact file it quotes the payload as 240kg. He gives it 4 stars.


My wife has this theory/belief that all designers and salesmen (sorry salespersons) or reporters have never even slept in a motorhome let alone owned one - another one to add to the list..... :evil:


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## 113016

Today, I have received the new uprated weight certificate and the new VIN plate from SvTech. 4100kg gross
Tomorrow I visit DVLA and I am not looking forward to it.
But over 1000kg payload will be worth it.


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## trek

Hi ThePrisoner

Just wondering what you decided to do with regard to purchasing the Elddis ?


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## wakk44

Grath said:


> Today, I have received the new uprated weight certificate and the new VIN plate from SvTech. 4100kg gross
> Tomorrow I visit DVLA and I am not looking forward to it.
> But over 1000kg payload will be worth it.


Hi Grath,

It is a good idea having the van uprated,I was just wondering if you could reverse the process in the future and have it reverted back to the original ,for when the driver reaches 70 and has licence restrictions for over 3500kg imposed for example.


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## 113016

wakk44 said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, I have received the new uprated weight certificate and the new VIN plate from SvTech. 4100kg gross
> Tomorrow I visit DVLA and I am not looking forward to it.
> But over 1000kg payload will be worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Grath,
> 
> It is a good idea having the van uprated,I was just wondering if you could reverse the process in the future and have it reverted back to the original ,for when the driver reaches 70 and has licence restrictions for over 3500kg imposed for example.
Click to expand...

Hi wakk44
Yes a down grade can be carried out at any time and it is easier and cheaper. No need to go to SvTech as DVLA will apparently accept your word.


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## 113016

Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
Fingers crossed, painless up to now.


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## coppo

Grath said:


> Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
> They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
> Fingers crossed, painless up to now.


We didnt go to the DVLA just posted off all the documents to them and received the updated log book back.

Paul.


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## ThePrisoner

trek said:


> Hi ThePrisoner
> 
> Just wondering what you decided to do with regard to purchasing the Elddis ?


Hi Trek

Have not decided yet but will keep you all in the loop.


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## 113016

coppo said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
> They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
> Fingers crossed, painless up to now.
> 
> 
> 
> We didnt go to the DVLA just posted off all the documents to them and received the updated log book back.
> 
> Paul.
Click to expand...

 I just wanted to get it over and done with and did not want to chance my documents getting lost in the post. Not just the registration, but the insurance certificate and MOT.
Have the tax disc therefore I can use our van now if I wanted to.


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## dereversken

It might be worth pointing out, that depending on the chassis and overhang at the rear, a towbar can weigh up to about 70 kgs, if you`re towing a small car behind, the car can exert quite a high lateral force on the tow bar, so it needs to be pretty strong too! ....ken


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## 113016

The certificate showing the new VIN


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## JackieP

dereversken said:


> It might be worth pointing out, that depending on the chassis and overhang at the rear, a towbar can weigh up to about 70 kgs, if you`re towing a small car behind, the car can exert quite a high lateral force on the tow bar, so it needs to be pretty strong too! ....ken


We've just had our tow hitch removed and it weighed 110kg. It was a massive piece of engineering that seemed to go nearly half way along the van. We'll never use it and are delighted with the extra 110kg's.

You can get a lot of Smarties for 110kgs 

Totally agree with posts on here asking for more publicity to be given to payload. If I was a cynic, I'd think that many of the dealers (and private sellers for that matter) want to keep the matter of payload under wraps. We lost count of the amount of people on the road, who, when we asked about the payload of their vans replied, "Payload? What's that then?"

I feel a campaign coming on.


----------



## JackieP

Grath said:


> The certificate showing the new VIN
> 
> ]


We're just waiting for ours to arrive from SvTech. It's good to see what one looks like. Thanks!


----------



## 113016

JackieP said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> The certificate showing the new VIN
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> 
> We're just waiting for ours to arrive from SvTech. It's good to see what one looks like. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi JackieP

The photo is a cope of the certificate.
The VIN plate is the same size as per the picture but is sticky waterproof type, similar to what Hymer use.
From start to finish at SvTech it was only a week.
Good luck with yours.


----------



## TDG

JackieP said:


> dereversken said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....Totally agree with posts on here asking for more publicity to be given to payload. If I was a cynic, I'd think that many of the dealers (and private sellers for that matter) want to keep the matter of payload under wraps...I feel a campaign coming on.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm.....
> I'm starting to think that the lack of understanding and/or not caring by some in the fraternity about matters such as weight and distribution, tyres, loadings and pressures, speed limits etc. is turning some motorhomes into potential lethal weapons :x
> The possibility for vehicle abuse is much higher with motorhomes than with cars and, because of the lack enforcement, commercial vehicles also :roll:
Click to expand...


----------



## UncleNorm

*Re: payload*



bertieburstner said:


> Michael le Caplain "tests" the Elddis Aspire 240 in the December edition of Which Motorhome. In the fact file it quotes the payload as 240kg. He gives it 4 stars.


I suspect that Michael le Caplain is a caravanner... His name can be found in the CaravanClub archives... http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/NR/rdo...520C687760/0/towcaroftheyear2007october06.pdf

_Meet the judges - Caravanability _

John Bramham, Tom Collin, Mick Farr, Nick Haynes, Driving;
Barry Williams, The Caravan Club Magazine;
John Parsons, freelance; 
*Michael le Caplain, freelance;* 
Mark Sutcliffe, Which Caravan;
David Motton, Practical Caravan; 
Steve Rowe, Caravan Magazine

To a caravanner, a payload of 240kg is very generous! :roll: That's probably why Mike le Caplain is so confused. He just doesn't understand! :?


----------



## grizzlyj

I've just been trying to find a contact email for Elddis, snail mail only?



Jason


----------



## trevd01

On an X250, if you specify a 3 litre with Confortmatic, AirCon and Cruise control, you are adding nearly 100kg to the front axle (compared to a manual non aircon 2.3).

Me and Mrs D have been on a diet after going to the weighbridge 8)


----------



## StewartJ

The Aspire's payload might be rubbish but its bathroom gets an award?

http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/...0&[email protected]&utm_s

Stewart


----------



## 113016

Grath said:


> Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
> They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
> Fingers crossed, painless up to now.


Swansea have lost all the details of my upgrade :x , luckily I could say that Shrewsbury gave me the updated tax disc and Swansea sent a refund as PHG is a lower tax rate, therefore I had proof that they had received the details from me.
They have today agreed to print a new reg doc and send it again today.
I wonder what will be wrong this time?
I won't hold my breath as I am expecting a further problem :x 
One good point was that they rang me back twice within a few minutes and the problem was dealt with efficiently, so lets hope that it is sorted!


----------



## loughrigg

erneboy said:


> It seem very common for novices to buy their first van only to discover, as they learn about MHing, that they will have the greatest of difficulty using their new van within the law, Alan.


That pretty well describes me.  

Our first purchase was concluded with only a moderate amount of research and no real understanding of payload beyond the converters handbook and the dealers patter. Looking back, I'm shocked at how naive I was.

We had seen and rejected a few vans before finding our Wentworth but when SWMBO first saw the layout and interior finish, it was a done deal as far as she was concerned. Had I known then what I know now, we would have discounted the van without even bothering to view.

It took a few weeks and a trip to the weighbridge (with Sprokit's guide to motorhome weights in hand) for the truth to dawn. Originally plated at 3,400kg, with a 4mtr awning and bike rack fitted, me on board (90kg) and full fuel/gas/water, the weighbridge recorded 3,265kg - and the rear axle was 130kg over its permitted maximum.

With an upgrade to 3,500kg (my medical limit) and a higher rear axle limit we have got used to travelling light, so can just about stay legal - at least most of the time. At some point, we will upgrade, but it does worry me that the resale value of the van will be affected by the lack of payload. Knowing the hassles and compromises involved in running an MH with a marginal payload, I would be very reluctant to sell privately. I guess I'll have to hope for a trade-in with a dealer who isn't too sharp on weights.

Mike


----------



## Adamsale

How about( if you are so inclined and it suits you) loading some of those heavier items in a trailer and towing it behind your motorhome.


----------



## erneboy

I may well have fallen foul of this trap too. I don't know even with my back ground owning trucks it never occurred to me to check till I was on van number three, Alan.


----------



## tony50

ThePrisoner said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have put a deposit down on a new van and am getting worried about the payload on it. These are the figures from the website:
> 
> Maximum Weight (Front Axle) 1850kgs (36.33 cwt)
> Maximum Weight (Rear Axle) 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Maximum Towing Weight 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt)
> Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt)
> Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt)
> Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt)
> Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt)
> MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt)
> 
> On my current van the payload is 565kg and we sometimes struggle with that when we go away for a long time. Can someone explain the Conventional Loads and Personal Effects Payload to me
> 
> If you put into you Calculations + or - 5% that the manufactuers say it could weigh this % more or less than the printed figures , then I can't see you having much spare carrying capacity , but there again a lot of motorhomes are over weight all the time .
> 
> Tony A.


----------



## coppo

tony50 said:


> ThePrisoner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> I have put a deposit down on a new van and am getting worried about the payload on it. These are the figures from the website:
> 
> Maximum Weight (Front Axle) 1850kgs (36.33 cwt)
> Maximum Weight (Rear Axle) 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Maximum Towing Weight 2000kgs (39.28 cwt)
> Mass in Running Order 3286kgs (64.55 cwt)
> Personal Effects Payload 96kgs (1.88 cwt)
> Optional Equipment Payload 43kgs (0.85 cwt)
> Conventional Load 75kgs (1.47 cwt)
> Max User Payload 214kgs (4.20 cwt)
> MTPLM 3500kgs (68.75 cwt)
> 
> On my current van the payload is 565kg and we sometimes struggle with that when we go away for a long time. Can someone explain the Conventional Loads and Personal Effects Payload to me
> 
> If you put into you Calculations + or - 5% that the manufactuers say it could weigh this % more or less than the printed figures , then I can't see you having much spare carrying capacity , but there again a lot of motorhomes are over weight all the time .
> 
> Tony A.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right to be worried Tony, I would just concentrate on the mass in running order, max user payload and axle weights and forget the other rubbish they quote.
> Paul.
Click to expand...


----------



## guydewdney

Having worked in the horsebox world - where its commonplace to sell a box at max weight - with NO horses on board - I can see the same thing happening in the MH world. One guy was pulled at a horse show and was 20kg under weight - _after_ he had unloaded 3 or 4 horses + tack = 1.5 tons +

for the record, my 9,5 tonner is under 7 tons unladen....


----------



## 113016

Still have not received my documents back from Swansea after they promised to send them out on the Tuesday before Christmas.
Now 8 weeks :x


----------



## tony50

guydewdney said:


> Having worked in the horsebox world - where its commonplace to sell a box at max weight - with NO horses on board - I can see the same thing happening in the MH world. One guy was pulled at a horse show and was 20kg under weight - _after_ he had unloaded 3 or 4 horses + tack = 1.5 tons +
> 
> for the record, my 9,5 tonner is under 7 tons unladen....


Tony A's View
Looking at a 7 .5 Ton GVW , If you got put over a weighbridge you would probaly get away with 5% overweight overall , which is . 375 of a ton , at 1.5 tons over weight ,depending where it's overweight ie. front axle , rear axle or overall ,or all 3 you could end up with 4 charges 2 x axle charges and overall weight and driver charge which could add up to a few pounds per charge or £ 1000 + per charge !
I have said it before on this site it's only a matter of time before VOSA sees this as a money earner !!

TONY A


----------



## Ken38

Hi ThePrisoner, I hope you got a resolution to your payload issue. I couldn't find it on the thread. Please let us know how it ends.

Luckily I had been forewarned when I bought my first MH. There were lots for sale with very poor payloads.

If you are forced to take delivery I can only suggest you get it weighed at a weighbridge. With the extras, you will have a ridiculously low payload so you could try the sale of goods act. Unfit for purpose. Ask for a full refund. That's the correct remedy. If it's unfit for purpose you don't have to accept any other remedy (I think).

If you have any house insurance it may have legal aid and may pay your legal costs. But take advice. Try citizens advice first perhaps. They have lots of dealings with consumer problems.

It really stinks that converters do this!

Ken


----------



## tony50

Ken38 said:


> Hi ThePrisoner, I hope you got a resolution to your payload issue. I couldn't find it on the thread. Please let us know how it ends.
> 
> Luckily I had been forewarned when I bought my first MH. There were lots for sale with very poor payloads.
> 
> If you are forced to take delivery I can only suggest you get it weighed at a weighbridge. With the extras, you will have a ridiculously low payload so you could try the sale of goods act. Unfit for purpose. Ask for a full refund. That's the correct remedy. If it's unfit for purpose you don't have to accept any other remedy (I think).
> 
> If you have any house insurance it may have legal aid and may pay your legal costs. But take advice. Try citizens advice first perhaps. They have lots of dealings with consumer problems.
> 
> It really stinks that converters do this!
> 
> Ken


I agree with you , get them to give you the weight ticket . it your money ,I had this problem after already buying , I feel embarrassed about it as I specified trucks in one job I had ,but didn't give weight a thought when buying the motorhome , I weighed it on 3 weigh bridges went to the dealer withe the weight tickets he weighed it again !! then we had a deal on a heavier Motorhome , if your dealer is a responsible company he should not mind weighing it ,tell them you will pay for the ticket if they won't .

Tony A.


----------



## sprokit

tony50 said:


> Tony A's View
> Looking at a 7 .5 Ton GVW , If you got put over a weighbridge you would probaly get away with 5% overweight overall , which is . 375 of a ton , at 1.5 tons over weight ,depending where it's overweight ie. front axle , rear axle or overall ,or all 3 you could end up with 4 charges 2 x axle charges and overall weight and driver charge which could add up to a few pounds per charge or £ 1000 + per charge !
> I have said it before on this site it's only a matter of time before VOSA sees this as a money earner !!
> TONY A


Oh please - don't be another VOSA knocker, we work under pressure to get it right - I don't like telling someone he's not going anywhere until he gets the excess weight off, or imposing fines. But I do, because my job entails enforcing the law related to Road Transport. Like Police officers, we take all sorts of stick from people who believe the law doesn't apply to them.

If people took the trouble to talk to VOSA Examiners, they would find that the truth of the matter is a lot different to the oft misquoted "facts" which the "experts" seem to conjure out of thin air. VOSA does not cause you to be overweight, you, or the manufacturer/convertor of the vehicle do that.

Some truths:
VOSA will prohibit overweight vehicles (no matter what type of vehicle) until the overload has been removed and the vehicle is at the permitted weight(s) as shown on the Ministry plate, VIN plate or Convertor's plate (if higher) - in the case of a vehicle not used in connection with a trade or business, for example a motor caravan used purely for pleasure, there would not be any Graduated Fixed Penalty & Deposit notice (GFPD)imposed (see http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/8002_VOSA_Enforcement_Sanctions_Policy_0610.pdf - particularly page 14 which addresses the question of Privately Used Vehicles). If you use it in connection with a business (and some do), then it's a different matter

The Constabulary may, however, take a different view, resulting in the issue of a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) on roughly the same scale as the VOSA Graduated Fixed Penalty rate.

In relation to multiple overloading - axles and Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) - it is generally accepted that the FPN will only be imposed for the highest percentage overload - so for example - 1st axle overload = 175kg on 1800 kg permitted weight = 9.7%; 2nd axle overload 210kg on 2200 permitted weight = 9.55%; this would give an overload of 385kg (assume 3500 kg GVW) or 11% - the FPN would be imposed on the GVW overload of 11%.

This holds good for most overloads up to 30%, above this point the offence would be dealt with by the Courts where, dependant upon the severity of the overload, a maximum of £5000 (Level 5 fine) could be imposed, the only time I've seen a fine in excess of £2000 was for an overload which was considered to be dangerous (90%).

The Enforcement Authorities across the Channel may take a completely different view, in fact I know they do, if you are overweight, you will be fined on the spot, whether it is a private vehicle or a commercial vehicle makes no difference.

VOSA does not get any of the money levied in fines, whether it be by means of a FPN or through the Magistrates' Courts - it goes to HMG Treasury.

In relation to horseboxes, in 20 years of weighing all manner of vehicles, I have noted that 7.5 tonne horseboxes are more likely to be overweight than any other 7.5 tonne vehicle - they seem to be worse than motor caravans for payload.

The current batch of 'standard' motor caravans seem to have very little payload - by the time you've put your awning, bike rack etc. onto the vehicle, filled the water tank and put your personal effects into the vehicle, is it any wonder that it's well known that a very large number of motor caravans run overweight.

You need to ask yourself - If the vehicle cannot meet your criteria vis-a-vis payload, can I afford to purchase a higher spec, suitably weighted vehicle, or, can the vehicle I've chosen be 'uprated' to give a higher Gross Vehicle Weight.

Keith (Sprokit)


----------



## tony50

sprokit said:


> tony50 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tony A's View
> Looking at a 7 .5 Ton GVW , If you got put over a weighbridge you would probaly get away with 5% overweight overall , which is . 375 of a ton , at 1.5 tons over weight ,depending where it's overweight ie. front axle , rear axle or overall ,or all 3 you could end up with 4 charges 2 x axle charges and overall weight and driver charge which could add up to a few pounds per charge or £ 1000 + per charge !
> I have said it before on this site it's only a matter of time before VOSA sees this as a money earner !!
> TONY A
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please - don't be another VOSA knocker, we work under pressure to get it right -
> 
> If people took the trouble to talk to VOSA Examiners,
> 
> VOSA does not get any of the money levied in fines, whether it be by means of a FPN or through the Magistrates' Courts - it goes to HMG Treasury.
> 
> From Tony A .
> I apologise to you and your VOSA comrades for my mistake I assumed wrongly any fines imposed for overloading went into your coffers .
> I cannot see in anything I wrote in a previous Post was knocking VOSA , I would however as a side issue did find from over 40 years in the motor trade ( and this not having a go at you personally like you were at me ! ) that the majority of Vehicle Inspectors " Let the power go to their heads " and I often wondered whether they got bullied at school . :wink:
> 
> Tony A .
Click to expand...


----------



## Ken38

One point I think being ignored in discussions about safety is that when you get a vehicle re-plated generally there are no changes to the vehicle.
It does change who can drive it, toll charges, car parks you can use and speed limits.
The speed limit one is the only direct safety impact.
The licence is historic. My daughter is restricted to 3.5T but my son is not. If it were a real safety issue we should all have to take the test.
*DO NOT OVERLOAD YOUR VEHICLE*
but don't expect it to become a lethal weapon either.
I would assume axle weight limits remain the same when a vehicle is re-plated. The most common danger is probably overloading the rear axle and at the same time under weighting the front.
A weigh bridge is an easy process and worth a once in a while check to ensure you are ok. Also the weight certificate can save you a lot of hassle if pulled on the continent.


----------



## sprokit

> From Tony A .
> I apologise to you and your VOSA comrades for my mistake I assumed wrongly any fines imposed for overloading went into your coffers .
> I cannot see in anything I wrote in a previous Post was knocking VOSA , I would however as a side issue did find from over 40 years in the motor trade ( and this not having a go at you personally like you were at me ! ) that the majority of Vehicle Inspectors " Let the power go to their heads " and I often wondered whether they got bullied at school . :wink:
> 
> Tony A .


Tony

I'm sorry if you thought it was a personal attack on you - it wasn't. :?

I do agree there are a few, not "the majority" (although that may have been your experience, perhaps dealing with only one office) who have an attitude problem  , though in the main most are as helpful as they can be within the constraints of the job 8) .

To get back on topic - for those who don't understand weights etc relating to their vehicle, about 2 years ago I put an article on the download site explaining how to read a VIN plate and how to check your weights - if anyone hasn't read it and wishes to do so, it's at http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=ns_getit&cid=3&lid=168&type=url#get

Enjoy your travels this year and in the future.

Keith (Sprokit)


----------



## airstream

*If we all*

Hi All,
Feb last year I posted
"Hi All,
Whilst at my dealer today I was in conversation with a fellow motorhomer who had been pulled over for a roadside weight check
His van was almost empty of gear and no water etc so no probem with the law but a problem when loaded as his payload was almost in his words "b*gger all"
He asked the VOSA? guy who was doing the checks what would happen if I had just purchased the motorhome and was pulled over on my way home
Guy said you would be prosecuted if overweight - how would I know asked the concerned motorhome owner
VOSA man says the driver is responsible, if it were me I would want a weight cert at the point of sale
Has any one out there ever had or been offered a weight certificate when collecting a new or used motorhome ?
Dealers out there why not?
Mine was weighed by Assist Warrington prior to them judder fixing !!!!!
Thank you SvTech I can now travel legally
Regards Ray
The situation will not change unless we all refuse to accept delivery unless a weight cert is issued for the motorhome on the day of delivery 
As the VOSA man stated "its the drivers responsibility to ensure the vehicle is legal" - so its to late once you drive away from the dealer
Happy New Year to all and enjoy your traavels
Ray


----------



## 113016

*The Saga goes on!*



Grath said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
> They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
> Fingers crossed, painless up to now.
> 
> 
> 
> Swansea have lost all the details of my upgrade :x , luckily I could say that Shrewsbury gave me the updated tax disc and Swansea sent a refund as PHG is a lower tax rate, therefore I had proof that they had received the details from me.
> They have today agreed to print a new reg doc and send it again today.
> I wonder what will be wrong this time?
> I won't hold my breath as I am expecting a further problem :x
> One good point was that they rang me back twice within a few minutes and the problem was dealt with efficiently, so lets hope that it is sorted!
Click to expand...

Well, I still have not received the documents. Just been on to Swansea and they say that they now have a letter from Shrewsbury with the information that they need and I should now receive the documents in about another 2 weeks. I gave all the documents to Shrewsbury on 10th November and it is already 8 weeks and if all goes well this will make it 10 week minimum!
BUT and it is a BIG BUT, Swansea told me that the letter that Shrewsbury sent to them stated a 4001 kg gross weight when it should have stated 4100kg
:x 
They have made a note and told me that the documents will be for 4100 kg but I expect that they won't as up to now they have failed to do anything right. :x 
I am beginning to wish that I hadn't bothered and carried on running overweight!!!


----------



## ThePrisoner

Ken38 said:


> Hi ThePrisoner, I hope you got a resolution to your payload issue. I couldn't find it on the thread. Please let us know how it ends.
> 
> Luckily I had been forewarned when I bought my first MH. There were lots for sale with very poor payloads.
> 
> If you are forced to take delivery I can only suggest you get it weighed at a weighbridge. With the extras, you will have a ridiculously low payload so you could try the sale of goods act. Unfit for purpose. Ask for a full refund. That's the correct remedy. If it's unfit for purpose you don't have to accept any other remedy (I think).
> 
> If you have any house insurance it may have legal aid and may pay your legal costs. But take advice. Try citizens advice first perhaps. They have lots of dealings with consumer problems.
> 
> It really stinks that converters do this!
> 
> Ken


Hi Ken

We managed to cancel the purchase after all but we were not allowed to have our £2000 deposit back so we are now tied to the dealer. I don't know if they are allowed to keep this money or not but after having three deaths in the family since October we have not really tried to be honest. We were thinking of the Autocruise Oakmont as a replacement, so if anyone thinks this is daft please let us know.

Thanks for asking anyway.


----------



## Mike48

ThePrisoner said:


> Ken38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi ThePrisoner, I hope you got a resolution to your payload issue. I couldn't find it on the thread. Please let us know how it ends.
> 
> Luckily I had been forewarned when I bought my first MH. There were lots for sale with very poor payloads.
> 
> If you are forced to take delivery I can only suggest you get it weighed at a weighbridge. With the extras, you will have a ridiculously low payload so you could try the sale of goods act. Unfit for purpose. Ask for a full refund. That's the correct remedy. If it's unfit for purpose you don't have to accept any other remedy (I think).
> 
> If you have any house insurance it may have legal aid and may pay your legal costs. But take advice. Try citizens advice first perhaps. They have lots of dealings with consumer problems.
> 
> It really stinks that converters do this!
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Ken
> 
> We managed to cancel the purchase after all but we were not allowed to have our £2000 deposit back so we are now tied to the dealer. I don't know if they are allowed to keep this money or not but after having three deaths in the family since October we have not really tried to be honest. We were thinking of the Autocruise Oakmont as a replacement, so if anyone thinks this is daft please let us know.
> 
> Thanks for asking anyway.
Click to expand...

I presume you have checked that you are licensed to drive it as its over 3500kg.


----------



## ThePrisoner

gelathae said:


> ThePrisoner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi ThePrisoner, I hope you got a resolution to your payload issue. I couldn't find it on the thread. Please let us know how it ends.
> 
> Luckily I had been forewarned when I bought my first MH. There were lots for sale with very poor payloads.
> 
> If you are forced to take delivery I can only suggest you get it weighed at a weighbridge. With the extras, you will have a ridiculously low payload so you could try the sale of goods act. Unfit for purpose. Ask for a full refund. That's the correct remedy. If it's unfit for purpose you don't have to accept any other remedy (I think).
> 
> If you have any house insurance it may have legal aid and may pay your legal costs. But take advice. Try citizens advice first perhaps. They have lots of dealings with consumer problems.
> 
> It really stinks that converters do this!
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Ken
> 
> We managed to cancel the purchase after all but we were not allowed to have our £2000 deposit back so we are now tied to the dealer. I don't know if they are allowed to keep this money or not but after having three deaths in the family since October we have not really tried to be honest. We were thinking of the Autocruise Oakmont as a replacement, so if anyone thinks this is daft please let us know.
> 
> Thanks for asking anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I presume you have checked that you are licensed to drive it as its over 3500kg.
Click to expand...

Hi gelathae

Yes I am ok. I am the big five o tomorrow. 8O :wink: 8O


----------



## 113016

Just checked on the DVLA site (vehicle check) and our Hymer has now moved into the PHG taxation class. £165
Dare I say that something is now moving at DVLA 8O


----------



## ThePrisoner

I have just had a quick look back at the Elddis site and this is what I can have as a chassis upgrade:

Peugeot 4000kg Chassis Upgrade Offering Increased Payload (Aspire 240 & 255) £1,140

What type of payload will this now give us?

Also, in the brochure they sent it states:

_The method of calculating the MRO and payload figures has changed. Allowances for essential equipment (eg gas cylinders) previously allowed for in the user payload are now witin the MRO. The provision for a leisure battery has been included within the personal effects payload allowance. _

This is gobbledegook to me.  :?

Thoughts please.


----------



## StewartJ

Hi Prisoner see the Aspire continues to win awards, it'll be interesting to read what they say about payload in March MMM

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/ch...PiCE5gQZcm7B3ZRN7yGtCP6IZkaw3Hskstc-gqpRqXqVn

Stewart


----------



## ThePrisoner

StewartJ said:


> Hi Prisoner see the Aspire continues to win awards, it'll be interesting to read what they say about payload in March MMM
> 
> http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/ch...PiCE5gQZcm7B3ZRN7yGtCP6IZkaw3Hskstc-gqpRqXqVn
> 
> Stewart


Cant wait..... :x

The problem being is that we still love the van so if it now becomes more suitable (ie payload) then we will consider it again


----------



## Rosbotham

ThePrisoner said:


> I have just had a quick look back at the Elddis site and this is what I can have as a chassis upgrade:
> 
> Peugeot 4000kg Chassis Upgrade Offering Increased Payload (Aspire 240 & 255) £1,140
> 
> What type of payload will this now give us?
> 
> Also, in the brochure they sent it states:
> 
> _The method of calculating the MRO and payload figures has changed. Allowances for essential equipment (eg gas cylinders) previously allowed for in the user payload are now witin the MRO. The provision for a leisure battery has been included within the personal effects payload allowance. _
> 
> This is gobbledegook to me.  :?
> 
> Thoughts please.


Finger in the air, it will give approx 450kg more payload than before on a like-for-like comparison. 3500kg max going up to 4000kg means 500kg, knock off a bit for the Heavy chassis weighing a bit more than the standard one, QED approx 450kg more - which makes it adequate in my book. Also makes it a private HGV which is approx 50 quid/yr cheaper on road tax...you'll get your money back after 23 years :lol:

I can't say I understood/stand why Elddis go for splitting out the different aspects of the user payload, but I understand there's a European standard now for what should be in MRO versus counting as a user's payload - so that probably explains why they now include weight of gas cylinders within MIRO. Effect will be to increase the MIRO and reduce the user payload, but whereas before that user payload figure had to encompass weight of your gas bottles, now it doesn't. Net effect zero. Although it does interest me what type of bottle they assume....a 6kg light calor weighs a lot less than a conventional 6kg calor.

It's a personal taste thing but personally I'd prefer the Oakmont/Augusta. I just can't get past the Aspire being a poshed up version of the Avantgarde 140/155 costing £15k more, rather than something designed from the ground up for this market. My prejudice : probably only the layouts are shared.

Paul


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## tony50

ThePrisoner said:


> StewartJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Prisoner see the Aspire continues to win awards, it'll be interesting to read what they say about payload in March MM
> 
> Stewart
> 
> 
> 
> The problem being is that we still love the van so if it now becomes more suitable (ie payload) then we will consider it again
Click to expand...

To be sure get the dealer to weigh one ( so you don't have to try after you buy !!!! )

Tony A .


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## ThePrisoner

Rosbotham said:


> ThePrisoner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have just had a quick look back at the Elddis site and this is what I can have as a chassis upgrade:
> 
> Peugeot 4000kg Chassis Upgrade Offering Increased Payload (Aspire 240 & 255) £1,140
> 
> What type of payload will this now give us?
> 
> Also, in the brochure they sent it states:
> 
> _The method of calculating the MRO and payload figures has changed. Allowances for essential equipment (eg gas cylinders) previously allowed for in the user payload are now witin the MRO. The provision for a leisure battery has been included within the personal effects payload allowance. _
> 
> This is gobbledegook to me.  :?
> 
> Thoughts please.
> 
> 
> 
> Finger in the air, it will give approx 450kg more payload than before on a like-for-like comparison. 3500kg max going up to 4000kg means 500kg, knock off a bit for the Heavy chassis weighing a bit more than the standard one, QED approx 450kg more - which makes it adequate in my book. Also makes it a private HGV which is approx 50 quid/yr cheaper on road tax...you'll get your money back after 23 years :lol:
> 
> I can't say I understood/stand why Elddis go for splitting out the different aspects of the user payload, but I understand there's a European standard now for what should be in MRO versus counting as a user's payload - so that probably explains why they now include weight of gas cylinders within MIRO. Effect will be to increase the MIRO and reduce the user payload, but whereas before that user payload figure had to encompass weight of your gas bottles, now it doesn't. Net effect zero. Although it does interest me what type of bottle they assume....a 6kg light calor weighs a lot less than a conventional 6kg calor.
> 
> It's a personal taste thing but personally I'd prefer the Oakmont/Augusta. I just can't get past the Aspire being a poshed up version of the Avantgarde 140/155 costing £15k more, rather than something designed from the ground up for this market. My prejudice : probably only the layouts are shared.
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Paul. It is a very serious issue really as I don't want to make a massive mistake that I will end up regretting. My head is literally in bits. :?

Tony A - A very valid point too. Thanks


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## PaulW2

You've had your heart set on the van but were stymied by the payload issue. Now this problem has a potential solution.

I personally wouldn't overthink it. You already own a motorhome. You know what layout etc. works for you and what appeals to you. How big a mistake can you make?

Paul


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## ThePrisoner

PaulW2 said:


> You've had your heart set on the van but were stymied by the payload issue. Now this problem has a potential solution.
> 
> I personally wouldn't overthink it. You already own a motorhome. You know what layout etc. works for you and what appeals to you. How big a mistake can you make?
> 
> Paul


That is fair enough...but my wife is in the equation somewhere. :wink:

Now its a toss up between a garage (Oakmont) and her first love (Aspire). I just pay......  Oh, and drive it.


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## 113016

*Re: The Saga goes on!*



Grath said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Went to the local DVLA today and now re taxed as PHGV and I will receive a £20 refund.
> They will now forward the Reg Docs to Swansea for the amendments.
> Fingers crossed, painless up to now.
> 
> 
> 
> Swansea have lost all the details of my upgrade :x , luckily I could say that Shrewsbury gave me the updated tax disc and Swansea sent a refund as PHG is a lower tax rate, therefore I had proof that they had received the details from me.
> They have today agreed to print a new reg doc and send it again today.
> I wonder what will be wrong this time?
> I won't hold my breath as I am expecting a further problem :x
> One good point was that they rang me back twice within a few minutes and the problem was dealt with efficiently, so lets hope that it is sorted!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I still have not received the documents. Just been on to Swansea and they say that they now have a letter from Shrewsbury with the information that they need and I should now receive the documents in about another 2 weeks. I gave all the documents to Shrewsbury on 10th November and it is already 8 weeks and if all goes well this will make it 10 week minimum!
> BUT and it is a BIG BUT, Swansea told me that the letter that Shrewsbury sent to them stated a 4001 kg gross weight when it should have stated 4100kg
> :x
> They have made a note and told me that the documents will be for 4100 kg but I expect that they won't as up to now they have failed to do anything right. :x
> I am beginning to wish that I hadn't bothered and carried on running overweight!!!
Click to expand...

Just returned home from a trip and expected the documents to be here and waiting as well over a second period of 6 weeks.
Got onto DVLA again and they can't explain why they have not sent them and have promised again to print and send in the morning. They say an oversight.
Begining to wish that I had not bothered to do the upgrade!


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## 113016

*Arrived*

Don't beleive it maybe I am dreaming but my new V5C with the uprated wieght to 4100kg has arrived today and all is correct.
Wow! Wow! bunny hops and more  
payload is now well over 1000kg.
When it arrived I thought they had sent a tempory V5 as the top half of the front is red and the bottom pink but it is not a tempory one so I presume it is a new style.
Having a good day now!      
only took since early November 

Just noticed in the notes at the bottom that it says Duplicate Document. Maybe that is why the colour is different.
So where is the first??
Another call to DVLA on Monday (I think)


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