# gas attacks



## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

i have just heard that there will be a piece on the Richard & Judy show at 17.00hrs tonight about gas attacks and robberies in Europe on holiday makers, it may be worth a look if you have the time.


Bob


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

would be enlightening to see some hard evidence; I doubt it will, though


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## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Bob, just set to record it, as Mike said would be nice to see the evidence but I also doubt it.

MHS...Rob


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Coming up at 5:20 (thank God I don't have to watch the whole program). "Meet the people it's happened to twice." Should be interesting.

Gerald


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

That was pretty convincing!! And I was previously of the opinion it was all a tale to sell alarms.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

where was the proof? Yes they were broken in to, but gassed through the vents?; we've been through all that before.
I had a phone call part way through it, who was the other guy there? (not Richard, or the young couple.  )


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

A 'journalist', Mike - Mike Cazalet who, apparently, has done "lots of research" into this. I'm sure he's got a couple of article he could sell to us :? 

Gerald


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Am I convinced......................NO
What a load of old tosh... A couple had driven for miles and pulled over into an Aire because they were extremely tired..........
Woke up in the morning and felt terrible and had been gassed and robbed........ Then they got gassed and robbed a second time, and this time her Rolex and a load of really expensive engine parts got stolen :roll: :roll: :roll: amounting to about £10K.........
Then the journalist comes on saying that it was happening all the time!!!!!
He tells us that it is Albanian gangs who squirt gas into the vents, break in and send in children to carry out the robbery..... Amazingly (to me anyway) the children are totally unaffected by this gas (enough to knock out 4 grown adults) and can effectively carry out the robbery....
The motorhome / caravan would absolutely reek of whatever substance had been used and there would be a large quantity in and around the vent so that it could be analysed, this of course doesn't get a mention. I would think that the forensics teams would be having a field day on this subject if as the journalist quoted, it is a big problem that is growing......
All a bit suspicious to me I am afraid

Never mind it was a distraction for 5 minutes....
The only thing that I thought was news worthy was the report that Margaret Beckett (I think it was her anyway...) goes on holiday in her caravan with a squad of guys to protect her... All at the taxpayers expense, which they forgot to mention!!!, alright for some eh???

Keith


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## parigby (Jul 18, 2006)

The impression it appeared to give, was that formal camp sites are OK, aires and motorway service areas are not. 

It also went on to effectively say that the problem appears to be one confined to the south of Lyon, and the actual thefts ( not the administration of the gas attack ) are undertaken by children of Eastern European origin.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Keith at the rallies we have Jacquie and her dogs to protect us. :lol: :lol: 

Have you noticed that they never seem to lose wedding and engagement rings, when they have been gassed? 

Olley


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Sounds like yet another case of robbed while under the influence.

Heavy stuff that French plonk!

(I must remember to take my Rolex with me on my next trip).


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## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

I did not believe a word of that report.

They must have stopped around Nimes which is on the "bandit run" these areas are not safe at night why do travellers not pull of the motorways and run into a small village for the night, the N113 runs along side the A9 with many safe places to stop and you can if you wish rejoin the A9 next morning.

Motorway Aires are "NOT SAFE" places to stop, if you cannot aviod it stay in sight of the shop/pay booth or park amongst they hgv's these robbers are afraid of the truckers.

Bob


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## 98585 (Apr 9, 2006)

kands said:


> The only thing that I thought was news worthy was the report that Margaret Beckett (I think it was her anyway...) goes on holiday in her caravan with a squad of guys to protect her... All at the taxpayers expense, which they forgot to mention!!!, alright for some eh???
> 
> Keith


Didnt see it tonight but...

Keith, I dont know what you mean "alright for some eh???" do you think she enjoys having a close protection team with her 24/7? Trust me when I say it will make her holiday _less _enjoyable. Every foreign secretary in recent times has had to have protection with them, as will most of the cabinet on their jaunts this summer. People are just digging at her because they find the thought of a senior politician using a caravan odd at best. Why is that?

I cant stand the woman personally. but I feel that protecting the foreign secretary this summer will save the taxpayer a few quid because their normal jollies often include lots of first class air travel 5 star hotels and room service. That is unless they take a dog, pup tent, awning an extra car on to a CC site, then Gordon might have to bail her out.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I didn't see the R&J programme either but the point has been discussed here and the overwhelming evidence seems to be that robberies do happen,especially to tired people who pull over in places where, if they were in full possession of their senses, they would not touch. Gassing; no, never.

Keith....what about e-mailing this journalist and putting your very sensible points to him ? It would be interesting to see what he has to say. 

G


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi G
I had thought about it but... To be honest if people are made aware of the problem of being ROBBED and are also told NOT to stay overnight on motorway Aires then maybe that is good enough???
Just a thought but to me it is better that people are informed and sometimes incorrectly, than not informed at all... If it makes us all a bit more careful then it can only be a good thing in my view...
But I did have to laugh at his pompous attitude and self appointed knowledge gained through "extensive research", took ages for my socks to dry out :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Ref Margaret Beckett, I personally would have thought that it would take an awful lot more manpower to secure a campsite from possible attack than, say, a hotel...... But hey, what do I know????

Keith


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> I didn't see the R&J programme either but the point has been discussed here and the overwhelming evidence seems to be that robberies do happen,especially to tired people who pull over in places where, if they were in full possession of their senses, they would not touch. Gassing; no, never.


Hi G

I agree, to the point where you say " Gassing; no, never" .. as far as I'm concerned it hasn't been proved either way but until it has I will assume that it is possible and take sensible precautions ..


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Or better still,..invite him on to MHF to give us a demonstration of exactly how gassing in a motorhome really works :lol:


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## 97201 (Jan 7, 2006)

*Gas Attacks*

I'm with Kieth here.

After a phone call this evening during which we discussed the prog.

I quote - "They squirt the gas through the lower vents" Nope, these inhibitors are heavier than air so would not effect those inside! 500ml cans! Oh they also use a hosepipe in attacks on villas - with the aforesaid cans?

With apologies to V. Meldrew - "I DON'T BELIEVE IT"

Ian

ps I started this at 7.10pm then was interupted with a phone call.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

ScotJimland said:


> .. as far as I'm concerned it hasn't been proved either way but until it has I will assume that it is possible and take sensible precautions ..


I'm with you on this one, Jim. No evidence either way, and you can see people latching onto the 'gassing' theme - it's not their fault, then. And £10k of gear stolen? Huh? Strange that these people had a mechanic (1st time) and then 2 mechanics (2nd time) in the van who didn't realise.

On another forum, there was the point that the amount needed to put people out would require many cans, which then starts to look expensive compared to the possible takings from a robbery.

Gerald


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## Lizziec (Apr 30, 2006)

*Gas Attacks*

I for one do believe it, and I think that it has only been brought to light because Margaret Beckett is in France with her caravan and her minders in a motorhome, and a good job too There is no smoke without fire, or gas as the case may be.

If anyone has been to the south of France around Perpignan (aka Beirut)
and seen the undesirables around Argeles sur Mer, especially on a Sunday morning, which is obviously 'beggars day', also the large gypsy encampments around this area, all with top of the range German caravans with Oysters on the roof, they burgle the static caravans on the sites around Argeles - been there, know people it has happened to, got the tee shirt, seen the video, had our motorhome tampered with and they wrecked all the locks but couldn't get in 'cos we had the doors chained up, THANK GOODNESS.

So I would suggest that you are not so flippant about the gas attacks because I think they do happen - just hope it doesn't happen to you or me.


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

I saw most of it. Surely the "Ether" based product would be ignighted by the Gas fridge pilot light. Secondly, when I park up in my 'van for the night I set the alarm but turn the Internal sensors off. All the doors are still alarmed.

Dave

656


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

The journalist in the interview said the gas was readily available, when Richard mentioned a motor product journalist’s reply was “No, but very close”.
My guess it’s Easy Start which is very inflammable, so why no BIG BANGS in motorway service areas?


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Aires Robbery*

Hello,

Gee I missed the TV was working ahrd to pay for weekends away.

Few things.

I was on the Autoroute Italian/French Border last year and A Scottish Lady and her Italian Husband told me that the police had asked them not to stay on the Aire and move on as there had been a lot of robberies.

I would think that the police should be more involved in keeping an eye out or were they just getting rid just in-case Saves paperwork and hastle on thier pitch.

I have and still do stay on Motorway Aires and to-date have never been robbed, just a Scot who tried to scam us in daylight. Why do I stay on motorway aires? Because its either too late or I can't find the Aires elsewhere. Having said that I do always try to get off the motorway and park in a local village. Usually in the spot where Pierre has been selling french golden delicious for the last 40 years and I am in his spot at 6am!

If more of us were to stay on Motorway aires there surely would be less temptation for thieves to dare disturbing us? Esp if you are on a Peage as they are unable to escape so easily.

I think the " Motorway aires are NOT SAFE" falls into scaremongering catagory. Im sure if thieves are so determined they will look for the other type of aires as they know you will be there and as they are off the beaten track, less chance of getting caught.

In December we stayed at a motorway aire in Spain. It was being used mainly By Italian, Algerian and Tunisian tourists/travelers. We had no problems and I actually felt safer as they had an all night kazbar going.

Trev


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

whistlinggypsy said:


> i have just heard that there will be a piece on the Richard & Judy show at 17.00hrs tonight about gas attacks and robberies in Europe on holiday makers, it may be worth a look if you have the time.
> 
> Bob


is there not a clip we could download ?

Trev


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Unfortunately a degree in science or engineering is not a prerequisite for a newspaper journalist or media presenter. If it was they probably wouldn't get half as much wrong as they do. I expect the Guardian to run with this shortly under their bad science feature (they do employ at least one scientist). 

For those like lizziec who believe first of all no one doubts that there are some dangerous places to park and that robberies take place but if gas was being used by now there would be some evidence. Most of us with the sort of background that enables us to make an objective judgement have yet to be convinced that there is a way of doing this which would not leave a trail of dead bodies behind them. 

Just to summarise:

Anaesthesiology requires a great deal of skill to ensure that the patient is completely under and also not dead.

After you have been anaesthetised the residues stay in your blood for several days and can easily be detected. 

Common narcotic materials such as ether are very inflammable or like chloroform difficult to administer to a large space. Also most have a characteristic small which lingers.


I do have a theory about one group of chemicals that could be used but again their presence can be easily checked for and as far as I am aware do not exist in gas or aerosol form.


Regards Frank


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

*Re: Gas Attacks*



Lizziec said:


> So I would suggest that you are not so flippant about the gas attacks because I think they do happen - just hope it doesn't happen to you or me.


Lizziec - we're not flippant about robberies by assorted low-lifes and we all have our own views on where robbery risk places are. What many of us do not accept is that robbers use gas injected into motorhomes to knock out its occupants while the robbery takes place. We don't believe it but I'm sure I speak for all when I say just show us one little piece of solid evidence (not hearsay or gossip) and we will eat umble pie for the rest of the year.
Don't be afraid of being gassed but do take precautions to avoid being robbed.


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## 98585 (Apr 9, 2006)

If it really is that easy to gas someone in a vehicle, why do these crooks bother with motorhomes, when parked up in most of the A roads and service stations of Europe are lorries, and trucks with cargos worth millions (literally) with sleeping drivers just waiting to get some damp start squirted in to the cab. If these lorry drivers were being gassed we would know about it. And if they arent why arnt they if this is such a fool proof way of highway robbery

Apart from getting on the roof, the only vent to the outside on most vans, well mine anyway, is the fridge and the heater exaust.

Well my fridge is well fitted and I reckon it would Take a LOT of gas to get in and disable us a large MH and it just wouldnt find its way in through there.

And the heater exhast covers, well they are made to be so difficult to get off, if someone gasses you through there then that must narrow the culprit down to a Motor Home owner who has developed "the knack" of removing them. but again I question how much gas would actually get in the habitation area.

_Do I believe it...._*I'm waiting untill it happens to Pusser*, and when I have read his post about where he found his trousers or similar. Then I'll believe it. :lol:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

jimjam said:


> _Do I believe it...._*I'm waiting untill it happens to Pusser*, and when I have read his post about where he found his trousers or similar. Then I'll believe it. :lol:


I'm sorry. I know it's a serious subject, but having read Pusser's travels, that is sooooo funny.

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I think you're right Keith though it does get up my nose when TV "researchers" pick up subjects like this and do not give us the true facts. It came out in the gassing thread last time it ran that a lot of people are scared they will be victims and look at the lengths people will go to secure their vans when they are in them. It's sensible to have carbon monoxide and LPG detectors - either of those are possible sources of problems especially if people have not had the van maintained or checked properly- but I really get angry at firms who sell gas attack detectors.

As to Mrs B. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the Protection department officers were told of her holiday choice ! We must start a thread for people to post sightings of her in Europe ! Are we likely to run into her over the washing up or emptying the loo or in the showers ?

Frankly I think the entire cabinet should drive immediately to the borders of Israel and Lebanon in a fleet of motorhomes and park in the villages there, defying anyone to aim bombs or missiles at them.

G


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Gas attacks*

Hi

I was not aware of the program until a colleague said he had seen it. I have phoned my friend the chemistry teacher and she says...

1) How do they get the gas in to the van? I suggested through the underfloor vents near the gas cylinder - but of course that is then a sealed tank to prevent any LPG entering the van.

2) Is there any other plave the gas could come in? Yes I said - under floor vents/under the boiler. Ah, excellent she said. As many such "knockout gases" are denser than air, they would sink and fall out of the motorhome.

3) I said they could climb on the roof (without waking Oscar), prize open the air vent and drop the gas in. They could she said, but then again how much gas would they need to effectively make a 30 cubic metre space all poisonous!

4) Knock out gas used to be used at the dentists - but it was pumped in to the body via a tight fitting mouth piece. It was not just squirted into the room.

The conversation went on. I am still of the opinion that until one of the MHF members can provide direct evidence of this, I am on the fence.

Rapide561 & Oscar


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## Ventra (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Gas attacks*

Over the last few months I have expressed the same opinions to my customers and "potential customers" that have been expressed here, however, I am also a firm believer that if it gives peace of mind then it is worth it!

After all many of us would or have an alarm fitted to our houses/motorhomes/car because the insurance company want"security". But in reality we know that the additional securty we add on will not really protect our property.

That said gas attack could affect ourselves or our nearest and dearest, is it worth the risk when parked up.

Solution1 = don't spend the night in "dodgy" Aires. Be secure where you stay!

Solution2 = buy a gas alarm, stay where you want.

But above all make sure you are and feel safe even if it does cost a few quid

Bill Jnr


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Quote from Ventra
Solution2 = buy a gas alarm, stay where you want. 

with respect, what a load of tosh!

What a very simplistic "solution", Ventra. So you get a narcotic gas alarm, park up on a service area in the south of France for the night feeling secure, and settle down for a nice kip.
Next morning you wake up & find you've been burgled by somebody breaking in while you were asleep, taking your Rolex, cash & credit cards; gas attack alarm didn't do any good, eh? 8O


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

*Re: Gas attacks*



Ventra said:


> Solution1 = don't spend the night in "dodgy" Aires. Be secure where you stay!
> 
> Solution2 = buy a gas alarm, stay where you want.


Hi,

I do agree with your solution 1. But I am less than satisfied with the second half of solution 2.

Even if you have (for peace of mind) a gas alarm installed, you should still take the same precautions when selecting a sleeping spot as if you had no alarm.

As it seems that now also TV shows contribute to the rumour mill, I want to point out the _known facts_ again:
1. There has never been any solid proof for a "gas attack". Never!
2. If "gas attacks" were really carried out like it is hawked all the time, then the crooks would produce a lot of stink and maybe a serious combustion, but definitely no narcotic effect at all.
3. By far the most nightly attacks on inhabited motorhomes do happen on motorway service stations. 
4. Second on the hot spot list are busy overnighting spots at major tourist attractions (e.g. Mt St Michel), especially in high season.
5. "Safety by Numbers" is simply an illusion! The more motorhomes there are on one spot, the more attractive this is for burglars.
6. The French motorways (and tourist places) around and south of Lyon are, at least during high season, among the most burglary-prone areas in Europe.

Best Regards and keep it safe,
Gerhard


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I agree with Bognormike what a silly solution from Ventra in fact no solution at all. Theft breakins muggings etc do take place what is in question is whether a narcotic gas is used.

I am sure there are places in most countries where it would be most unwise to park up for the night.

Frank


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## 99412 (May 25, 2006)

I never thought I'd end up contributing to this gas attack thread, but hey lifes too short not to be involved.

First off what do I have to contribute?
I have a degree in Chemistry, and run a chemical manufacturing company. I am not an anesthesiologist, but have done some research around the topic. I have been trained on media relations and PR techniques

There is an excellent resource for those who wish to better understand anesthesia and the materials used and is of course Wikipedia Reading that and associated articles brings one to the conclusion that there are relatively few true anesthetic agents, and only one or two are available without a prescription. Furthermore, the vast majority are liquids which require a vapouriser to create the inhaleable gas which does the trick.

Moving on from anesthesia to asphyxia I would point you at Wikipedia again. Here there is the telling line "Inhalation of overwhelming amounts of non-oxygen gases such as helium or CO2 fire extinguishers for recreational or amusement purposes." In other words you can also produce unconsciousness by starving the brain of oxygen, rather than administering a pharmaceutically active product which interferes at many levels with the conscious response. I am unable to find exact percentages required to produce non permanent asphyxia, however we can assume that it more than 1% and less than 10% of air by volume. For the average motorhome this would mean inserting between 30 and 300 cubic metres of gas in order to create the desired effect. Too much means death, too little means no effect. Make your own mind up
As an added bonus there is an article by an anesthesiologist which I have read on the fora. Unfortunately I cannot locate it to add in here.

Where does the the PR training come in? One of the first things I was taught was that there are two distinct types of journalism, that for information and that for entertainment. It can sometimes be difficult to tell them apart. Do remember that the the imperative of a newspaper or broadcaster is to get readership high, in order to sell advertising and then make money for shareholders. I recently gave a talk to a class of 30+ trainee journalists. All had degrees, only one had the slightest understanding of science and its principals. I would have no faith in any of them to ask a significant question based on science or pure logic. They assumed that everything was black or white, not grey like the rest of us 

The course they were doing was aimed at making them professional journos, and that meant being able to engage with their readership. Given that few of the readers wished to operate on a forensic or scientific level, its no wonder that journalists are not seen as reliable.

So to summarise:
Anesthetics need special equipment to administer them
Asphyxiants require some sort of measurement to prevent death
Printed and screened matter is basically for entertainment

I would also add that people have been shown by experimental psychologists to go to extraordinary lengths to justify the unjustifiable.

Over to you :idea: :?:


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

How about a silly solution No.4!

Go around the van ie. under bunks etc and block the low level vents that are near to your head when in sleeping position with gaffa tape, I did this winter before last to stop draughts. Incidentally I also removed the front high level seatbelt anchoring point and vertical plastic/carpet type covers, what a wind tunnel there! More gaffa tape! no more draughts down the back of our necks now! 
Sorry to digress, to continue when stopping at night turn on your extract fan on, remember to set it to IN so you have a positive pressure inside your vehicle.
I assume that the external rear ladder if you one, has an anti-climb cover and you have you extract fan wired to your leisure battery.
I should add that I never take any of these precautions, I do however have a large purpose made safe, similar to a gun cabinet, which takes two rucksack type camera bags, laptop, gps, money, credit cards etc. etc.
Depending on your layout it may be possible just to use a gun cabinet in a bunk, cupboard or as in a previous motorhome when we carried much more photograph gear, sink it into the floor between chassis rails.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Fantastic post, DaMann. So pleased you decided to give us the benefit of your knowledge and research.

Thank you.

Gerald


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## 100251 (Jul 28, 2006)

I thought that Tv programme just modern journalism not to be taken seriously.
I used to operate vans and smaller trucks throughout France. My advice is to stop at a Relais Routiere cafe. These attract truckers and have space for motorhomes. It might be worth having a meal there if you intend to stop overnight, just to have the owners on your side.
I witnessed one event where a trucker caught two robbing his cab in the lunch break. 
It was not a pretty sight. Most truckers carry baseball bats or heavy spanners etc. In this case his shouts brought an angry army out from the cafe. 

I wonder if the insurance companies swallow these gas tales?

keep trucking!


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## 98585 (Apr 9, 2006)

This thread has had over a thousand hits in just 24 hours. Is this a Record?

That word 'gas' really gets people looking. I think its really does frighten people. Lets hope it just makes them more aware rather than puts them off travelling abroad altogether.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

I would just like to add that if you are parking up in an area where there is a possibility of being "gassed", please remember to turn off your fridge........
Volatile solvent in the atmosphere and the fridge fires up...... Won't need to worry about being robbed :roll: :roll: :roll: 

This seems to be another oversight of the "research" that was carried out............

Keith


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Gas attacks*



Boff said:


> Ventra said:
> 
> 
> > 4. Second on the hot spot list are busy overnighting spots at major tourist attractions (e.g. Mt St Michel), especially in high season.
> ...


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: gas attacks and bats*



skywriter3 said:


> I thought that Tv programme just modern journalism not to be taken seriously.
> I used to operate vans and smaller trucks throughout France. My advice is to stop at a Relais Routiere cafe. These attract truckers and have space for motorhomes. It might be worth having a meal there if you intend to stop overnight, just to have the owners on your side.
> I witnessed one event where a trucker caught two robbing his cab in the lunch break.
> It was not a pretty sight. Most truckers carry baseball bats or heavy spanners etc. In this case his shouts brought an angry army out from the cafe.
> ...


Hello there,

I carry 2 baseball bats 1 for me and one for the wife (and a ball of course!).

Trev


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

*gas*



> and block the low level vents


Dont worry about gas ,you will kill yourself with your own fumes

Talking of which Pam and I have been married for 25 yrs plus and she says she has been the subject of gas attacks nightly for most of those years and has suffered no ill effects or ever been robbed :lol:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: gas*



Geo said:


> ... she says she has been the subject of gas attacks nightly for most of those years


Poor lady. Does she know she can get these chewy tablets from the supermarket to help her with her affliction?

Gerald


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

At last we've got down to a sensible discussion. What a gas!  :roll:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*The Gas News has Spread from Rich&Jude to Alan Beswick*

The gas attack thing!

Hello all!

I was helping a neighbour today and he said to me while stood near my motorhome.

"Hey Trev, I was listening to Alan Beswick on the radio today and you better beware, robbers are going around on the continent shuvving probes up peoples vents and gassing them, don't worrry though they won't hurt you just rob you"

Sounds painful I said but I have a baseball bat or 2 and the gas fridge to protect me.

I then explained the situation and he thought (only for a second or 2) and said of course never thought of the explosive thing, or the put you to sleep for good.

I was talking to a fellow motorhomer the other day who said he had bought a dog especially for his trips abroad. "I bought a dog Because of these gas attacks you know" was his comments.

SO PLEASE will someone find out what this gas is? I am off to see the bank manager next week.

Trev

For those of you who don't have a clue who Alan is he is a Radio Presenter and writes a column in The Manchester Evening News. Thats him below NOT ME!


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

If you are worried about getting gassed..........

.......get a canary :chocobo2:


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## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

Detourer, is that as spanish or moroccan canary :? 


Bob


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## 97201 (Jan 7, 2006)

*Gas attacks*

Bob

It is obviously Spanish as It comes from
>

>

>

>

the Canary Isles

Ian


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

.....Damn, that was my next line Camperian


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

You both wrong, the canary islands are named after dogs.

Pedantically yours Olley :lol: :lol:


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## mauramac (May 24, 2005)

jimjam said:


> If these lorry drivers were being gassed we would know about it. And if they arent why arnt they if this is such a fool proof way of highway robbery
> 
> 
> > Hi Jim
> ...


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