# Reverse Polarity



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm not sure if this should be in the French section or applies to more than one country...

I have read about the issue of reverse polarity at some French sites when plugging in to the electricity. In order to counter this would it be advisable to either: 

- purchase a reversed polarity plug (2 pin at one end and our 3 pin blue jobbie at the other)...are such thng sold?

or

- buy a 2pin/our 3 pin as above and rewire the live and neutral and then clearly amrk it as "Reverse Polarity"?

Any advice appreciated

Graham


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## Bill_OR (Feb 6, 2010)

Graham,
You may have just kicked a hornets nest!

1) Yes you can purchase connectors with the cables switched over to counter the reverse polarity - just search ebay for 'motorhome reverse polarity' and you'll find some for sale. You'll also need a socket tester to check whether reverse polarity is present or not - also easily available.

2) The annual Hornets nest debate that is likely to follow your post is whether or not reverse polarity is a problem worth fixing!! I have a tester and a 'conversion' cable as I prefer the 'better safe than sorry' approach. However, I think I've only used it once in 4 years!

Bill


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Whoops :lol: 

I have a tester and a 'regular' Continental 2 pin plug adaptor with a blue socket on the end. All I need is the reverse polarity one to complete the set  

I'm with you: best to be covered

Graham


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## Davethepenguin (Oct 21, 2010)

There is no problem with "Reverse Polarity" in France because both the live & the neutral are switched. In other words, if there's a fault the RCD's isolate both the neutral & the live. In the UK only the live is switched if a fault occurs. This was explained to me by a French electrician.

I have never had a problem using reversed polarity sockets in France. 

Regards Andy


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## Jeannette (Aug 7, 2012)

Andy beat me to it. 

There is no problem and then reality is it's rarely ever seen anyway. 

Some generators also give the same indication due to the way they are earthed.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Personally it doesn't worry me but clearly it's worrying you.

Firstly, it's unusual to find the standard 3 pin round blue sockets wired wired incorrectly. Usually in France etc. it's the little old French two pin sockets that are often wired reverse polarity. In that case the solution is simple - take the plug out of the socket and put it back in upside down - problem solved, polarity correct.

In the real world it's more a perceived than actual problem, as long as you unplug appliances before tinkering with them you won't be affected.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Or you could just ignore the whole subject and go have a good holiday.

Ray.


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

If you're the sort of guy who fiddles about in (say) a toaster _when it's still plugged in _ then a reverse polarity lead would be useful.
If on the other hand you're the sort of guy who would unplug such an appliance BEFORE fiddling about then you don't need one.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

It's not necessarly a worry but rather, as a newbie to all of this, an attempt to secure relevant, accurate information and advice  

Armed with said information and advice I will now do as I usually do: do my own research and then act as I see fit.

In this instance I MAY get a reverse polarity plug because for the sake of a tenner and piece of mind (and a tiny weight and space occupancy) I see no issue in doing so.

Then again, I might not...

Decisions, decisons...

Graham


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We carry a polarity tester AND a reversing connection AND a 2 pin connector......

but that is because we got them about 20 years ago and there is no point in throwing them away....

I agree with Ken (Gaspode) it is only a problem with the old fashioned (!) 2 pin sockets...... but I disagree that you can turn the plug over - you cannot, there is an earth pin in the socket which has to go into a hole, and the other way up there is no hole......

I know 'cos our house has them all over the place.....

and our MH plug in point is reversed polarity, but so what?

I do not take things apart while they are connected so for me there is no problem.......

But if you want to feel extra safe (and of course wear a belt, braces AND a piece of rope to keep your boxers up) then buy the spare parts.....

Dave :lol:


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## xgx (Oct 14, 2005)

You can pick up the blue 16A plug and socket for around £2 each at shows, wire 'em up with a length of compatible cable... wrong way round (!) and you've made yourself a revpol adapter; be sure to mark/label it as such 

I always check polarity ...must be a _Graham_ thing


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

If you understand the so called 'reverse polarity' issue you will realise that the normal good practice of properly isolating supplies before taking covers of electrical appliances is a perfectly adequate means of protecting yourself.

If one doesn't understand this issue, one shouldn't be poking around under the covers of electrical appliances (not suggesting that you do poke around under covers).

Your dilemma now, Graham, in terms of taking advice off a forum is who do you believe. Often, the majority of views expressed are incorrect but as someone who is not familiar with the topic, how would you know? Unfortunately, Fora such as this are not necessarily the best way to get answers!

Ian


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

I too ALWAYS check polarity when touring mainland Europe. Not every country uses the same connectors or wires them the same as the UK.

Came across one site where the supply wasn't earthed.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

> I agree with Ken (Gaspode) it is only a problem with the old fashioned (!) 2 pin sockets...... but I disagree that you can turn the plug over - you cannot, there is an earth pin in the socket which has to go into a hole, and the other way up there is no hole......
> 
> I know 'cos our house has them all over the place.....


Ah - you got me there Dave. 

I am of course confusing the French socket with the Schuko socket which is used in Germany and almost all the rest of Europe. The Schuko has side contacts for the earth instead of the pin so you can if fact turn it over. I'm sure I've come across Schuko's used on French municipals. :? 
You can tell I don't worry about it much can't you?:lol:

Link to Schukos socket,


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## astartup (Apr 24, 2012)

*Reverse polarity*

We go to France most years and have the necessary cables and tester to correct reverse polarity. We always check the polarity and have found it occurs on sockets using the blue CEE plugs too.

Also, my father was an electrical and mechanical engineer and member of IEEE, the professional electrical body. He has always stressed the importance of checking particularly if you intend using a high wattage item, hair dryer, kettle etc. One other thing, when testing the sockets he has found live switched with neutral on rare occasions. If you find this, you shouldn't use the electrics on that pitch. The tester will indicate this.

French electrical regulations are not as stringent at British ones; you should have seen the wiring in a country Gites we rented once! Mind I do envy them the smaller plugs on items, it's a pain to get our plugs in portable bags!


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Just test your RCD or RCBO operates with the test button whenever you hook up. Forget polarity buy some wine


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Zozzer said:


> I too ALWAYS check polarity when touring mainland Europe. Not every country uses the same connectors or wires them the same as the UK.
> Came across one site where the supply wasn't earthed.


. . . First thing I do too when connecting to EHU is to use the polarity meter (that goes for both UK & abroad)


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Just to add a note of correctness, there is 

NO SUCH THING AS REVERSED POLARITY

when dealing with AC.

The trouble is there does not seem to be an alternative expression to accurately describe what worries (some of) you.

In UK our Neutral wire is roughly tied to the Earth wire (equipotential).

Thus the Line (often incorrectly called Live) wire is the one that has the voltage that goes up to 250V from zero 50 times a second.
(OK, OK - I know - that is a gross simplification)

Because of this, in UK we generally switch only the nasty wire - the L.
(again things are slowly changing)

Now in some other countries either N or L or neither may be tied to earth potential.

As either L or N may be nasty or both might be half nasty they therefore use double pole switches (and trips).

Now we come to UK MHs with UK spec electrics (single pole switching) plugging into some "dodgy" (or so some people think) €uropean socket.

That "dodgy" (ibid) socket will almost certainly be protected by a double pole trip (RCD, ELCB or whatever) which will instantly (well within 30mS) isolate in the event of a fault.

As mentioned above, if you really want belt braces & etc then by all means get a socket tester and a reversing cable.

If you insist on taking the covers off live equipment then just make sure you are not standing on wet grass in bare feet or holding onto a good earth point with sweaty palms at the time.

If you can't be a*rsed with bothering yourself by all the above then just plug in and forget about it all - you are on holiday!

I must confess - I do use a socket tester, if I remember (which is not often!), just to check that an Earth is actually present in the MH.

Not that a £2.50 socket tester will tell you how good the earth is or isn't!

So, there you have it - in a nutshell.

Incidentally I thought we had agreed many identical topics ago that we would call the aforesaid phenomenon


REVERSE POLARISATION!


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

vicdicdoc said:


> Zozzer said:
> 
> 
> > I too ALWAYS check polarity when touring mainland Europe. Not every country uses the same connectors or wires them the same as the UK.
> ...


Why? They are always RCD trip-equipped.

Don't worry. Be happy.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

So-called reversed polarity connections are only a problem if you have equipment on your own vehicle that is faulty or incorrectly wired.

Neither of your incoming Live and Neutral conductors should be tied to ground/Earth/chassis in your vehicle. You should have a double-pole RCD in the incoming supply.

We don't carry a reversed polarity plug, we have both the 16A BS4343 and the Schuko 16A reversible plugs on cables so we can usually plug in almost anywhere.

Peter


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

In a former life I was an electrician.....'reverse polarity'....so what!?

No problem :roll: :wink:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Hmmm...quite a can of worms as suggested :lol:

Anyway...I now have:

- a tester
- a standard 2 pin to our blue socket adaptor
- another adaptor on which I shall rewire the L and N and then mark it accordingly [NB I am happy to do this. Father was a sparkie for many years and I worked in the electrical trade for the best part of 20 years myself. I wouldnt take the covers off live appliances and poke around in them, however  ]

I shall test the sparks at each site and act accordingly based on the info the tester provides

Cheers all 

Graham


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

There is another way - change all your switches to double pole - sorted.


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

gaspode said:


> Personally it doesn't worry me but clearly it's worrying you.
> 
> Firstly, it's unusual to find the standard 3 pin round blue sockets wired wired incorrectly. Usually in France etc. it's the little old French two pin sockets that are often wired reverse polarity. In that case the solution is simple - take the plug out of the socket and put it back in upside down - problem solved, polarity correct.
> 
> In the real world it's more a perceived than actual problem, as long as you unplug appliances before tinkering with them you won't be affected.


This will work in Spain and germany but not france. The earth is on a pin (from the socket to the plug) and so you cannot simply turn the plug over. The problem with the German (etc.) side earth sockets is that the earth very often does not connect properly and so that shows a fault. I would regard no earth as more important than reverse polarity.

My feeling is that polarity should be correct (and I have found lots of French 16A sockets that are reversed.) I take a 16A change over connector. But unless you know what you are doing you might make things worse rather than solve the problem. As someone has suggested do not poke about inside equipment anyway.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Im guessing after this thread NOBODY will be poking about inside equipment...live or otherwise :roll: 

I think Im going to untick the 'notify me when a reply is posted' box before I lose the will to live :lol: 

Graham


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I just wish peeps would stop GASSING on about REVERSE POLARITY :lol:  :sleepy1: :sleepy2:


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Im guessing after this thread NOBODY will be poking about inside equipment...live or otherwise :roll:
> 
> I think Im going to untick the 'notify me when a reply is posted' box before I lose the will to live :lol:
> 
> Graham


So Graham, have you been able to figure which of the respondents advice to follow:

- those who explain that 'reverse polarity' is not an issue

- those who diligently (and pointlessly) carry crossover leads

You may have guessed that I don't carry any!

Ian


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

I was on a campsite and another motorhomer asked me about the voltage/polarity,I got my meter out and found that it was 230v L-N but 105v from L-E and N-E ? My thoughts were that it was 2 phase 230v,never saw that in my life but in British factories we have 110v 2 phase. :? :? :?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Show me *verifiable *evidence of either gassing _(arrgggghhhhhh - wash my mouth out with carbolic!!!)_ or anyone coming to harm as a *direct *result of reversed polarisation, and I'll cringe in a darkened room with the rest of the unbelievers. :roll:

Don't get me wrong. It's perfectly understandable for newcomers to be concerned when they first hear about these issues, but there is such a massive body of negative evidence by now that a few minutes browsing only this forum would put anyone's mind at rest.

So please browse if you are concerned - then clear off and enjoy a cracking good, relaxing holiday. :wink:

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Bigtree - where was the said campsite?

If on the Continent then you have demonstrated my technical lecture perfectly.

If in UK then hmmm!

Not that you would have (would of?!) come to any harm.


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