# Motorhome security - at what cost?



## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

I've been thinking about the lengths that some people will go to have peace of mind on security in their motorhomes. Some people are obsessed/paranoid about security. A close friend had his van broken into and his van is now like Fort Knox, very hard to get into but even harder to bale out of in an emergency.

I've seen bars on cab windows, cab doors chained together, cab doors secured by the seat belts and other DIY gadgets. Many people in securing their vans have not even thought about the problems arising if they need to get out in a hurry. When we bought the Timberland we discussed ways of getting out in a hurry with the beds made up. Now being in our seventies and not all that agile the easiest way out is through the back door, I dread to think what would happen if we could not exit that way. It's quiet easy to get out in the daylight but I'm not sure how it would be if it was dark and the van was full of smoke. We are lucky in having four doors which makes life a little easier. We don't have any added security just the standard Cobra alarm. 

In a coachbuilt with the cab doors chained and secured by padlocks has any thought been given to getting out in a hurry. It might be reasonably easy to unlock padlocks during the day but at night it could be a different matter, if you couldn't get out of the habitation door you could be in big trouble. In some of the A class vans when the over cab bed is down it would be almost impossible to use the cab doors.

Some of the large European/American RV's have only one door, many also have the windows sealed for the air con. How do you get out in an emergency if you can't reach the only door.

I've not set out to frighten anyone nor am I scaremongering, fires in motorhomes rarely occur but when the do they can be very frightening or worse. For an account of such an incident there is a posting "Fire Risk Warning" on the MMM Forum by Mel B dated 28 June 2005. Mel B and family had a very lucky escape that day.

So can you get out of your van quickly anytime day or night if need be?

Regards

Don


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

Hi *Don Madge*. I agree with you about the hysteria and paranoa that some people suffer from with regards vehicle security. American RV''s usually have a break out window in case of an emergency. They usually come with deadlocks fitted to the main door and so are farily easy to escape from. :wink:


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Don

That as been a topic that I have commented on for years, many people do put security/personal possesions before their own escape route.

Making sure you can escape in total darkeness is important, that little catch may be easy if you can see.......


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

Hi guys

i am one of the secure concious parania motorhomers, but this is OUR choice, and it is difficult to explain the those who have never been robbed or broken into what it feels like afterwards................Imagine................waking up with armed robber 18 inches from bed,................how would you feel about security then, (i dont believe it would not be an issue)
We love motorhoming and hope to continue doing it for years to come, and we practice the escape from our M/H regularly, in fact we are very good at it now.

it would be interesting to hear how many have actually benn robbed/broken into

Paul


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

Red0ne said:


> Hi guys
> 
> i am one of the secure concious parania motorhomers, but this is OUR choice, and it is difficult to explain the those who have never been robbed or broken into what it feels like afterwards................Imagine................waking up with armed robber 18 inches from bed,................how would you feel about security then, (i dont believe it would not be an issue)
> We love motorhoming and hope to continue doing it for years to come, and we practice the escape from our M/H regularly, in fact we are very good at it now.
> ...


Paul,

In 35 years of touring the continent as a tourist we have had the very good fortune of never having suffered the trauma of a robbery or been broken into. I can't say I know how you must feel, because I can't.

We had friends who were attacked in Portugal in the eighties, they carried on for a while but things were never the same again.

In Portugal this year we met a Facts member (Kontiki Ken) who had been robbed twice over the years in the high season while parked up for the night on the Peage.

Don


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Paul (Red one)

The odds are now in your favour, I would say not many motorhomers in the whole world have been subject to an Armed robbery.

If you had ever heard anyone die trapped in a fire or seen the results, I can guarantee you would rather be shot.

Been in armed situations, bombs and bullets etc, but I would still make sure an exit is viable with the security in place, ie I and everyone else would have to be able to do it blindfolded. If it were beyond my daughter to open it then it would not be used.

Ok I might get robbed, but nothing I would do would leave a loved one open to death by fire, some things are replaceable and some you never could.....


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Well we are security conscious too. Dead locks on cab door, wedge for for mh door lock, Alarm, plus two other alarms fitted to cab door windo and leisure window. We thought about escape and would use fixed bed area window or lounge window both should be easy to climb out off (at present, when infirm might have to re think!)
We usually have the alarm on at night.
So far we haven't been broken into but were approached on A7 Murcia region services whilst stopped for a bite to eat. 4 chaps pulled up in car and one got out with a map. I thought "a scam" so got up to close door, chap wuickly there even so, but when the dog barked he was soon off!!!

Rita


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Rita

*Dead*locks on the cab doors, always sounds darkly prophetic, these are two escape routes that have been denied you.

They should never be used when travelling or when asleep, so in the case of fulltimers should only be used when you are away from the vehicle.

But even then, when the rest of the motorhome is about as secure as a carrier bag?

Caravan doors are so easy, windows too, so is there any point to the deadlocks ?


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Hi George,

Have to confess, yes we do have the dead locks on at night. The caravan/mh door has a block of wood to prevent latch opening. When we are away from the mh we use a defen door lock over the door. Yes windows are vulnerable and would be so even if we just had the mh alarm on. But they would have to climb up to get in via the windows making the burglary a bit more obvious. We do try to park in safe places but then people have been broken into on campsites!
We know we can get out easily via the large windows so happy do do that for the time being. Our idea is just not to make life too easy for those thinking of breaking in.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

My greatest feeling for security comes from the deadlocks when we are away from the van (with a panel van there is no easy caravan door), and from the alarm with interior sensors off when asleep, when, yes of course, the deadlocks remain unlocked.

Dave


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

8O *George* our dead locks are easy to operate. It's no more difficult than operating a door handle. Not all deal locks are alike. :roll:


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Our dead locks are easy to use.....Heosafe ones. I prefer them locked at night as that is where they often try to break in.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi John

Not sure what *you *mean by a deadlock, but the when spoken of in regards to cab doors they can only be keyed externally. There is no internal release.

Household deadlocks require the key from either side and cannot be opened via a lever or latch, or reaching through


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

George ours are released internally only


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Rita

Just looked them up (Heosafe) Trying to get my head round this, they are only any good when you are inside? hopefully you keep the keys in them, but then that makes them less secure, always hard choices............


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

We always have the keys handy by the bed! + torch! I know if we were out and both lost our keys we'd have a bit of a problem with cab doors double locked and caravan door double locked :wink:


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

Hi *Geroge*. Take a look at this >>>>>>>>>> HERE <<<<<<<<<<<<. 8)


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

You can of course go on and on and on regarding security....whats good for piece of mind for one is not enough for the next person etc etc......and in general I feel that is all you are doing, paying for piece of mind.......and why not if that, by definition, works for you........

I have by choice (job) Mhomed and 4x4'ed in some of the most inhostbitable and lawless places on earth........shot once, stabbed twice, locked up so many times I have forgotten number.........but NEVER have I been attacked in the Mhome. Security has always been simple, but effective, and above all visible!

For me thats the key......visible security. most thieves will NOT attack a vehicle where there is more than a slight chance of being disturbed. 

I use a heavy chain (wrapped) around streering wheel. Rachet Strap (sometimes) holding front boors together, but don't like that! Best thing I ever fitted and cheapest was/is Halogen lamp clipped onto roof with movement sensor.......via inverter......anyone comes near BIG LIGHT. link and double that to a smaller one that comes on inside vehicle at same time and I guarantee no one will bother you........and the light will wake you (probably) add to that if you must a panic button near bed that sounds horn......all extremely simple to do. cost? just a few £'s 

Exit.......IF being attacked, simple........don't exit.......make noise. Fire etc.? look how ineffective and simple all those lovely plasic windows are........kick them out!!


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

With you on that detourer


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

I am just starting motorhoming, have youngish children and don't plan to "wild camp" if we can help it.

However, I was so nervous after reading previous posts that when we received our van we installed the Heo locks, the Fiamma locks, the Cat 1 Alarm 2 base ball bats.

I haven't even gone away yet!!

I know things are bad but can we have a poll to see how many of you have been robbed while in or around your van but not parked outside your house.

Also, does it make a difference about the height of the van, Paul you have a 747 and of course the big American's are really high off the ground and hard to see or climb up to the windows

B


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi John

If a handle catch or latch opens the lock IT IS NOT a deadlock

Just to clarify read this link this is the British Standard definition of a deadlock
BS Deadlock definition link

Handles must not operate the deadbolt pretty clear.

The whole idea of a deadlock is so that a scrote cannot break a window reach through and unlock, if he can (as per your picture) it is not a deadlock.


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Hi BERTHA

There you go.............motorhome owners probably do more to scare people off motorhoming that any thief could do............Buy a 4xi4 (as a hobby/pastime vehicle and would would probably stand 100% more chance attracting theft than a motorhome. Same goes for Motor Bikes.....I had two Harley's nicked and was un-insurable..........Non excistant gassings, robberies while wild camping..........etc etc etc............Just don't worry........By and large it don't happen. More chance of being robbed at home!

By the way. My son in law is Capt of Police (Guadia) down here........M Home thefts and the like as that rare (so his records show)....more chance of snow.

Just enjoy...............let others get the ulces!


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

*MH security*

Hi Don Agree with you that some people go over the top and end up locking themselves in
I have looked at what some people do ie chaining doors together by handles that are fixed to the door trim - dont know of any door handles that are realy securely fixed and couldnt be opened with a jemmy. Remember the thief is not bothered about the damage that they do

I read Mel B's post & it is frightening. and if you have seen a caravan go up! Well it only takes a few seconds to get alight.

Like you I think of how to get out. On some sites I even contemplate the best route off the site in case of fire, when they are crowded

We sleep next to a window that can be opened with just two catches & they are large enough to get through


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Detour,

Your a breath of fresh air - thank you

B


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

Detourer

im afraid you dont install breath of fresh air into me, your comments sound rather poor and the advice is a bit shallow and gung ho for my liking

quote

..........Non excistant gassings, robberies while wild camping..........etc etc etc............Just don't worry........*By and large it don't happen*. .......

It is not the theft of the motorhome that is the issue, ......................quote....._By the way. My son in law is Capt of Police (Guadia) down here........M Home thefts and the like as that rare (so his records show)....more chance of snow,_.........its the thought of having the **** kicked out of me thats the problem, so i want to protect mine as much as possible

you need to look around and see what is happening in the real world of motorhoming........People ARE being robbed etc..........the police in france told ME that it happens EVERYDAY and is on the increase,

you must be one of the lucky ones who has never been robbed ..........

So, what are we to do...................................

Paul


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

bertha

now you can go and remove all the expensive security equipment that you just fitted, because you are told it dont happen..........crap

IT DOES.............., it may never happen to you for the rest of your life, but it is better to be safe

self presevation is your best defense, 

We will not stop motorhoming because it happened to us, we WILL be more careful and vigulant, because we love the motothome scene and i appologise if telling the truth is offensive

Paul


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

I think we should all give up motorhoming, caravaning and take the temptation away from the evil bastards

There again, eat a bloody chicken pasta in Little Chef last year, got food poisoning which led to Gullian Barre and landed up in Intensive Care with my good anti bodies stripping away my nervous system, similar to this thread really.

I still eat out but avoid Chicken now!

B


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Paul

In the real world of motorhoming these robberies are extremely rare and When as anyone had the **** kicked out of them?

Loads of non-existant gassing's are reported, but I have not heard of one ass whooping, not one. So if non existant gassing's totally outnumber a crime that could possibly exist?

If we were to ask who had been burgled (at home) I would guess that many of us have suffered at some point in our lives, but whenever we ask for camping crime evidence its very thin on the ground.

Detourer as traveled countries that most people would avoid, he as been shot and knifed but never attacked in his motorhome.

This is why I hate gas attacks and the overhyping of what is a very rare crime (no matter what the french police say, remember many gassing victims get this cock and bull story of the French police who then let them drive off??!!!!!)
On the increase I hate that phrase it is always used in conjunction with gas attacks.

Of course crime happens, but its very very very rare, you only have to ask on this board and any people you know. 

The fear of crime is well OTT compared to the likelyhood.


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

bertha

i look at it like you..............bad chicken..........dont eat it

same with motorhoming

you like the site.........you stay.........you dont.........you move to next one

We learnt a valuable lesson, we were rather naive, we live in a little village were we dont lock the house or cars, was in that frame of mind when we went on holiday..........now we are a little more aware

Bottom line.....................enjoy the M/H

if you visit scotland give me a call

Paul


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Logical, George, but fear is about emotion and perception. The likelihood may be conceded to be very small, but the consequences if the worst came to the worst could be huge. Multiply the two together and if people feel happier taking precautions I see nothing wrong with that.

What I object to are advertisements preying on and encouraging that fear. Then I guess the bottom line is caveat emptor plus open debate among motorhomers on boards such as this challenging erroneous claims.

Dave


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

That's more like it Redone, I was getting worried you were letting the past get to you to much.

Scotland, where's that?


Do you know, when I moved from Wales to the Isle of Wight to date this, I can't say English girl because she is from the "Isle of wight", she had never been abroad, in fact, she had only just started to frequent the mainland.

So, for our honeymoon, I managed to get her a passport without her realising what for and took her away touring around Holland and France.

Rained the whole 3 weeks and you know that;s all she ever wanted to do is to go to Scotland, which, by the way, had the finest 3 weeks in Years while we were in Holland - I keep promising to take her there so maybe soon i shall give you a call

B


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Nice one Red One

Perhaps you would be better off with and armoured truck instead of a motorhome..........

Gung hoe (bet spell misses that one)....not really.........just a job in the real (3rd)World.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Everyone should be afraid, without fear we would all be lost, its controlling the fear thats the key. Its formulating a sensible response

London may be seen as dangerous especially later today, but even if there were more terrorist attacks, the likelyhood of coming to harm is still very very slight.

Yet so many people are avoiding London, saying they wont let their kids go on trips etc, but then you should stop them going to fairs, on adventure breaks, dont let them fly, driving is far more dangerous than any of these so better not drive anyone you love anywhere, dont forget stranger danger ignore the fact that the last stranger kidnap/murder was 2001 Sarah Payne, so dont let you kids out of your sight.

I wish I could find a link to the story of the couple who asked a consultancy firm to find a peaceful crime free area, with no chance of a war being fought there, guess where they went? The Falklands about 2 months before the invasion.

Or the Japanese man who sent his daughter to Nagasaki on Aug 7th 1945 because it would never be a military target.

Catch 22, imagine if the attempt to keep your loved ones safe places them in harms way.

By all means try to keep the scum out, but do not trap yourselves in, always maintain the balance.

Wax on, wax off

Learn the Crane Technique, its unstoppable (but only in the first movie)


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

Detourer

you must have read my mind, i did think of an armoured truck after we were robbed, but reality set back in

i do agree with most of the comments and sometimes feel a bit on the over protective side when i start locking us in the van at night, but........................

i feel i have hopefully taken adequate precaution in "reducing " it happening again

1. the alarm is set at night
2. my awareness is different
3. expect the unexpected

Now it is time for me to shut up about it and get on with using the M/H for what it was intended .......fun etc

we have done a couple of trips to france and are off again on the 23 august for another 4 weeks to "test the installations"    

Next thread please...................................

Paul


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi John
> 
> If a handle catch or latch opens the lock IT IS NOT a deadlock
> 
> ...


 8O *George*. Not all Deadlocks are alike. The one I linked to above is the Genuine USA version. It is a DEADLOCK. :roll:


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

When I went to Jamica I noticed the doors on a VW motorhome were secured by dreadlocks.

Which is fine but gets very crowded

B


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

John

What the Americans call a deadlock is nothing like what we europeans think of when saying deadlock. The Idea of a deadlock over here is that it cannot be opened by a simple lever or latch (as shown in the British Standard definition above)

Also as discussed with a Locksmith who frequented this board in the recent past, he was going to develope a double sided deadlock (keyed from inside or outside)


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

When we stay on aires or wildcamp abroad we have a similar system as Rita,

2 x heosafe internal deadlocks on the cab doors, a piece of wood wedged between the handle of the body and the caravan door and a good alarm. This gives us piece of mind that we are doing the best we can to deter thieves and at the same time we think we can get out quickly as we have deadlock keys in an easily found but secure postion next to each cab door and the wooden wedge at the caravan door is easily removed in the event of an emergency. I addition, it would be quite easy to get out of the windows at the side of the beds if req'd.
The very fact that we are happy with this set up speaks for itself, we have taken sensible measures to prevent involuntary access as is reasonable without going overboard and this gives us peace of mind and helps us to get a good nights sleep. There is always the danger of overdoing it to the detriment of your own safety, we like to think we've taken reasonable steps to prevent it from happening and having a good balance betwen crime prevention and emergency exit requirements, that'll do us.

Now i've said that i sincerely hope we dont get 'done' on our next holiday :roll: 

pete.


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## annej (May 27, 2005)

I have followed this thread with great interest. I have also seen similar posts on another Motorhome forum and must say that I feel saddened that some of these posts put so many people off utilizing their most cherished (and very expensive) possession to its full capability. We have recently spent 21 days in France and only 5 nights in a campsite, by choice. The remainder of the holiday was spent, apart from 3 nights on Motorway service areas, on the roadside waiting for the Tour de France coming through (don't all shout at me at once) and in various Aires de service. I know some members will not even contemplate using an Aires de service let along camp up at the side of the road even if they see other vans parked up. I know a lot of people complain about the Tour de France and warn other motorhomers to check their routes and dates with those of the TDF because of road closures but, think about it, plenty of roadside parking, lots of other people parked up overnight (very safe) and provided you are "on the road" before the Gendarmerie close it (always well advertised) you have just enjoyed a free and usually enjoyable night, dare I say it, for some the equivalent of "wild camping". As for the Aires de service, we have used them all over France and never once felt "uneasy" far less been robbed or even gassed! I refuse to buy a gas alarm. I refuse to make myself a "prisoner" in my motorhome in the same way that I refuse to make myself a prisoner in my house. If I ever felt the need for more security than the motorhome already has, I shall buy myself a large dog, much more pleasant than all the deadlocks and chains anyone could ever imagine.


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

annaj

mmmmmmmmmmm.........................what can i say

Paul


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## annej (May 27, 2005)

I'm sure I don't know what you mean Paul 8O


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

Hi anna

you are more luckier than us, we were not so lucky, we did got robbed while in van.......but we were in the wrong place wrong time i guess, motorway services in france xmas evening, ......we thought we were in the safest place possible

Paul


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## annej (May 27, 2005)

Hi Paul, 
I'm sorry to hear that. We have stayed overnight at many Motorway service areas (only the busiest ones, even some which sell fuel can be too quiet) with no problems so far. We have also stayed on lots of Aires de services and again tend to chose the ones as close to town centres as possible and only if we are pretty certain the other vans are there for night. Of course, having said that, the safest places of all have been on the roadside, village squares or designated areas within towns and villages during the TDF! 
Anne


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

8O


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## 89309 (May 19, 2005)

I understand people wanting to make their MH secure, there are too many bad people out there these days.

Can't beat a couple of big dogs for security and company.

People tend to back off when faced with a barking German Shepard.

Trevor


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

On our first trip abroad in a MH I am hoping that the wifes bark will put off any potential intruder

B


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## 88844 (May 9, 2005)

You could try a selfbuild using one of the ex police riot vans on sale at the moment.
Armour plated, blue lights on the top, mesh grill over the windscreen, police radio (disconnected but still has loud haler in working or as is the siren). 
9 years old, well maintained and for sale for up to £4000!

Oh and they still have *POLICE * printed on the sides and front.
Just a thought.


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