# How do tow vehicles capacities work for a fifth wheel?



## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

From another thread this fifth wheel is shown hooked to a Navara.

http://www.fifthwheelco.com/celtic_rambler/celtic_rambler.aspx

The trailer is 3200kg empty, or 4300kg full.

A Navara can tow 2700kg braked, and a 1200kg payload. I suppose ideally you need a big US pick up, but-

How does the 5th wheel loading the bed get balanced between tow kg and payload? Do they have a high nose weight?

Just wondering like 

http://www.nissan.co.uk/etc/mediali...Par.12184.File.tmp/Navara_Price&Spec_2011.pdf


----------



## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

And while we are being curious, what driving licence is required?


----------



## Kasey (Nov 20, 2009)

Nissan Navara has gross train weight of 5.75tonne as standard. With air assist suspension this can be replated to 6.5tonne.

The tow weight doesn't seem to apply to 5th wheel set-up cos its not wagging the back of the truck.

Pin weight (on the 5th wheel in the back of pickup) will not be more than 1/2tonne, although that is something I have yet to prove for mine on a weighbridge.

If you think about it, a 10tonne tractor unit on a normal artic pulls 30tonne.

Hope that helps.

Driving licence is a standard licence (if you have grandad rights) and you are not pulling for commercial reasons. Then again, I dont think all the staff at all the manufacturers / sellers in this country have HGV licences and they are not private use.
And before someone asks, you are not subject to any restrictions over 70 (or whatever it is) because the whole lot is not the weight that matters - only the pickup, and that is unlikely to go over 'limit' weight.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would be fairly confidant that you will be OK but you need to check that you will not exceed your max permitted rear axle weight when the trailer (plus all your kit is inside it) is attached.

Personally I would be very un-easy about towing a trailer that weighed more than the towing vehicle no matter what it was played st.


----------



## Kasey (Nov 20, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> I would be fairly confidant that you will be OK but you need to check that you will not exceed your max permitted rear axle weight when the trailer (plus all your kit is inside it) is attached.
> 
> Personally I would be very un-easy about towing a trailer that weighed more than the towing vehicle no matter what it was played st.


Each to their own, I admit. I'd rather pull my 5th wheeler, even with its greater weight, than I would tow a caravan of similar length. They are so much more stable than a caravan cos the weights is inside the wheels. Also, the rear axle 'max' goes up with the replating after the air assisted suspension is fitted. I agree I would not want to pull the trailer far without the air assistance.


----------



## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

There is quite a lot to it. I believe that there is also a width issue. I believe that if the 'trailer' is over 7ft6 wide the towing vehicle must have a gross weight of over 3.5Ton!!!!! So be very careful as some american 5th wheels are 8 ft wide!!!!!

The tow vehicle will also need a trailer braking system fitted, the fifth wheel must have a hand brake of some description. Some of the battery chargers built in can pull serious current from a 240v hookup. The waste is in big tanks which I think is a great idea but if you can't get the fifth wheel close to the waste point then it does create problems although for about £200 you can get a macerator pump that can pump the tanks out up to 100 meters I think.

The UK made ones I saw were good but they didn't have the big on board tanks for waste just normal loo casette. So it's swings and roundabouts.

Reading the US 5thwheel forums you get some good info about hitching and unhitching. I believe hitching has to be done virtually inline with 5thwheel! 

There are some horror stories on clutches on some of the jap tow vehicles. By all accounts you need the autos.

You really need to do some research on official gov sites as some of the 5th wheel companies I have spoken to at the shows seem to be avoiding the legal issues. 

There are lots to them but I love them, at the moment we don't have the space to park the truck. Let alone a 5th wheel


----------



## Kasey (Nov 20, 2009)

ched999uk said:


> There is quite a lot to it. I believe that there is also a width issue. I believe that if the 'trailer' is over 7ft6 wide the towing vehicle must have a gross weight of over 3.5Ton!!!!! So be very careful as some american 5th wheels are 8 ft wide!!!!!
> 
> The tow vehicle will also need a trailer braking system fitted, the fifth wheel must have a hand brake of some description. Some of the battery chargers built in can pull serious current from a 240v hookup. The waste is in big tanks which I think is a great idea but if you can't get the fifth wheel close to the waste point then it does create problems although for about £200 you can get a macerator pump that can pump the tanks out up to 100 meters I think.
> 
> ...


I totally agree you need to do a lot of research. I did before I bought one. Most UK spec ones (manufactured here or specced here) will give the option of cassette loo or tank. I went for the cassette as I thought it suited my use better. I empty my grey water tank using a 40L roller if there is no option to empty direct. Works OK.

Hitching can be done at almost 90 degrees these days.

Dual mass clutches did cause problems on a lot of trucks. I changed mine for a solid one (as did the manufacturers on later ones).

Personally, although they are legal on our roads I wouldn't have an 8' wide anything - not for UK roads. 7'6" seems wide sometimes.

The two companies that I know of who manufacture in the UK or who have theirs manufactured for them to their spec make sure that they comply with all the EU rules, and are very responsible. However, I cant speak for all the others.


----------



## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

An earlier thread in this forum section mentions that licence type depends on where the pin is, and is why some 5th wheel brackets allow a fore-aft adjustment?!

I'm only asking out of general interest and not looking to purchase. There seems so little info about what is legal, but maybe there isn't actually any official info!


----------



## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

grizzlyj said:


> An earlier thread in this forum section mentions that licence type depends on where the pin is, and is why some 5th wheel brackets allow a fore-aft adjustment?!
> 
> I'm only asking out of general interest and not looking to purchase. There seems so little info about what is legal, but maybe there isn't actually any official info!


It would allow for the transfer of weight.

DAve.


----------



## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Mrplodd said:


> I would be fairly confidant that you will be OK but you need to check that you will not exceed your max permitted rear axle weight when the trailer (plus all your kit is inside it) is attached.
> 
> Personally I would be very un-easy about towing a trailer that weighed more than the towing vehicle no matter what it was played st.


A percentage of the weight of the semi trailer is directed downwards onto the bed of the vehicle, exactly the same principal as tractor unit weighing approx 8000kgs until connected to a loaded semi trailer then its weight would change to 17000kgs or there about. And like any articulated vehicle the semi trailer with the tractor becomes as one unit.

Dave.


----------



## Kasey (Nov 20, 2009)

grizzlyj said:


> An earlier thread in this forum section mentions that licence type depends on where the pin is, and is why some 5th wheel brackets allow a fore-aft adjustment?!
> 
> I'm only asking out of general interest and not looking to purchase. There seems so little info about what is legal, but maybe there isn't actually any official info!


I think there is information about what is legal - it's just knowing who to ask (and that's not me for chapter and verse).

AS far as I am aware the only reason for the pin bracket to move back and fore was to aid reversing so the trailer didn't hit the pickup so easy. Most seem to go for an alternative system these days affixed to the actual pin.

As you say, lots of questions that need answers before you make up your mind. I was interested to find out enough to satisfy myself that my unit was legal and did what I wanted, but cant say I know it all.


----------



## olley (May 1, 2005)

Many odd rules apply, Alan on another forum has his trailer classed as a "Living Van" and his mini artic downrated to 3.5 ton mam the train weight stays the same at around 10 ton. Living vans and their tow vehicles don't need an mot, and the whole lot can be driven on an ordinary car licence. 8O

Ian


----------

