# Migrant dies very sad.



## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

Was inevitable:

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/migrant-dies-on-uk-bound-shuttle-11363990944048


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Very sad. So close as well. Article says its the second in two weeks.

I suspect the tip of the iceberg when you think how many probably perish on the journey. Their families will probably never know what became of them. We don't know how fortunate we all are.


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

169 views, 1 reply.

That's how much we care.


----------



## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

I think the title and Barry D's comments reflected my opinion. What else is there to say?


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

I agree that we don't probably care about the loss of one life but there will be thousands following willing to take the same risk.
We need to find a way of stopping this.
I do care about the loss of life by these desperate people who are willing to risk life and limb to get to the promised land.
How would you feel if it was you who are so priveliged to all our western trimmings were in the same situation ,what would you risk to create a better life for your family.?
I'm not saying we should support these people financially but make it clear we can not support this influx of people and make it clear there are no benefits to be had by coming to this country.
We are to soft in giving away benefits to these people so they will keep coming until there is no reason to do so.
I am 54 and have not had 1 penny in benefits in this country,have worked all my life and payed into the system.
If I wanted to claim a penny I would be subject to form filling and would probably get next to nothing.
I don't want sound like a party pooper but we do need to change our policies on immigration for the good of all concerned.
Just my opinion,good or bad.


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Spacerunner said:


> 169 views, 1 reply.
> 
> That's how much we care.


Actually I think most of us think the same thing but don't want to say it here.
All those doubters should read some of the reports that have been compiled in recent weeks regarding the aspirations intentions and beliefs of these " asylum seekers" following interviews with them in Calais


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Have some compassion for fellow human beings,I'm not saying let everyone in but let's try and find a solution to the reason for them coming here in the first place.
Do you think people dying to get here is ok.
I don't.
It's easy to dismiss people when you have not walked a mile in their shoes.


----------



## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Actually I don't think that most of US think the same thing.................................and why don't people want to say it on 

here.............................embarrassed..................ashamed. 

Afraid you'll be challenged by Political Correctness gone mad.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I feel sad

Ialso feel at a loss of what to do

We cannot keep on taking countless immigrants, many of whom are just looking for a better lifestyle than their country can provide rather than escaping persecution 

If it's a real question of life and death the first safe country will provide safety

Unfortunately we have many of our own people who need help, a shortage of houses and still many unemployed looking for fulltime work rather than no contract hrs at minimum pay

Aldra


----------



## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

aldra said:


> I feel sad
> 
> Ialso feel at a loss of what to do
> 
> ...


Here here


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

The migrants pass through many countries that are safe for them to stop in, but they are encouraged not to stay.The UK is the end of the yellow brick road.
I am sad that they lose their lives and would not like to be in their shoes.
However there must be a way to encourage our European Union associates to take more responsibility in helping.

I did hear some hot head yesterday shouting that we should shoot a few to discourage them, but to be honest I don't think that would work either.

cabby


----------



## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

It's a European problem and as such should be dealt with in a civilised way like every member country taking a proportional amount of genuine asylum seekers (fleeing Syria and opressive regimes where safety is a concern, not migrants seeking a better life by following the benefit system) We cannot just say they should stop at the first safe country they come to, that would cause massive problems for that country (another case of "I'm all right Jack NIMBY's)
I suspect that this poor guy who died is, as has been mentioned, the tip of the iceberg, no one who isn't desperate would take such chances.

The one thing we all have in common with the refugees/migrants/asylum seekers is that we are all human and sometimes it seems that we lose sight of that and see them just as a problem we don't want to deal with. The thing is, we all have to deal with it so the member states of the EU should be finding solutions instead of treating these people like hot potatoes'

Jim.


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Jimblob44 said:


> no one who isn't desperate would take such chances.


Why are they so desperate to get out of France?


----------



## Dill (Jun 3, 2010)

Well it looks like I'll be the first to say I just dont give a toss about them.


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

siggie said:


> Why are they so desperate to get out of France?


Because they want to get illegal work that is easier in the UK

If they were genuine asylum seekers the single adults who make up the vast majority of the mob at Calais would be better off staying in France where they would receive higher benefits than 
in the UK while they are being assessed. This is all well documented and even the French have come to this conclusion despite the rubbish spewed out by the mayor of Calais. 
Interestingly although the percentage of successful asylum applicants is lower in France than the UK overall they have accepted far more than the UK.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Just to repeat yet again they are not all flocking to the UK. Many settle in other countries, you just dont hear about it as much. Germany have more than any other EU country, France and Italy about the same as us. Some will speak English. Where would you head if your second language was English?

Its also Ironic that many are from countries where we, the west and the USA have fought wars over the past decade or so and left those countries in a worse state than they were before.


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

barryd said:


> Its also Ironic that many are from countries where we, the west and the USA have fought wars over the past decade or so and left those countries in a worse state than they were before.


I don't recall thousands of Germans coming to the UK in the late 40's and 50's.


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

barryd said:


> Just to repeat yet again they are not all flocking to the UK. Many settle in other countries, you just dont hear about it as much. Germany have more than any other EU country, France and Italy about the same as us.


Population densities of the countries you list (number of people per square km of landmass)...

UK 262
Germany 226
Italy 202
France 118

Don't forget that a vast area of Scotland and Wales is pretty much wilderness and that most migrants to the UK tend to settle in England. The population density of England is 413 per km2.

It's amazing how different raw figures can look when put into perspective. It would be like saying 1 house received 4 new inhabitants and another house received 2. You may just look at the numbers and say 'So what?' But when you add that the first house is a one-bedroomed terrace and the second is a 20-bed mansion then the figures take on more meaning.

[All figures are late 2013 to mid 2014]


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

siggie said:


> Population densities of the countries you list (number of people per square km of landmass)...
> 
> UK 262
> Germany 226
> ...


Thats a fair point well put and yes your right there are parts of England that are full to bursting. Where I live is the opposite, two hay carts and a donkey constitutes a traffic jam here but there is no insentive for a migrant to come here.

I think though this must be the same in other countries, they will also end up in places that are already crowded. The point I was trying to make again is that it really isn't just us, it just seems that way. One thing for sure the eu needs to work together and agree what to do, especially the French and British. It feels very much like there is a fair bit of squabbling going on which won't help anyone.


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

siggie said:


> I don't recall thousands of Germans coming to the UK in the late 40's and 50's.


I do I lived near one of them Ernie Weitz - he didn't actually come here of his own free will we brought him here as a prisoner of war and after D-day he decided he had nothing to go back to, married an English girl and lived just up the road from my Mum until he died.
We also had thousands of Polish and Ukrainians (other Central European counties were available) who were rendered "stateless" after the war living in Nissen huts at a camp on Bicester Garrison for many years after the war. I remember some still being there in the early 70's.
Simple answer.
If we don't want a problem, we shouldn't cause one.

As for not wanting to stay in France........

....If you've been brought up on a diet of English and cricket why would you want to?


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Stanner said:


> I do I lived near one of them Ernie Weitz - he didn't actually come here of his own free will we brought him here as a prisoner of war and after D-day he decided he had nothing to go back to, married an English girl and lived just up the road from my Mum until he died.
> We also had thousands of Polish and Ukrainians (other Central European counties were available) who were rendered "stateless" after the war living in Nissen huts at a camp on Bicester Garrison for many years after the war. I remember some still being there in the early 70's.



The German POW's is not the same thing as was being discussed earlier - after the war many prisoners did not want to return to Germany as their hometown was in the Soviet sector and fearing another spell of imprisonment in Soviet hands, decided to stay in Britain where they became known as "DPs" or displaced persons. Others, as you say, married local girls and stayed in the UK. In all about 24,000 former POW's stayed in the UK after the war. In comparison, the estimated number of ILLEGAL immigrants to the UK is between 10 and 36 times that figure; between 310,000-570,000 (UKG figures) or between 417,000-863,000 (LSE figures).






Stanner said:


> We also had thousands of Polish and Ukrainians (other Central European counties were available) who were rendered "stateless" after the war living in Nissen huts at a camp on Bicester Garrison for many years after the war. I remember some still being there in the early 70's.
> Simple answer.
> If we don't want a problem, we shouldn't cause one.


I don't seem to remember us causing the problem, I am sure it was caused by Germany invading Poland and other European countries!




Stanner said:


> As for not wanting to stay in France........
> 
> ....If you've been brought up on a diet of English and cricket why would you want to?


My question on that was a rhetorical one.

However... They use the excuse that they are fleeing persecution and are asylum seekers, yet they are willing to risk their lives to get out of a safe, prosperous, first-world country. Sounds a lot more like simple economic migration to me. If they were leaving solely because their own countries are not safe then why are such a vast majority of them young males? Wouldn't you want to take your families with you to get them away from such unsafe conditions too?

Just putting forward discussion points...


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

I wasn't referring to the problems then - rather the problems now.

"We" have gone into many of the migrants countries and caused the problems they are now attempting to escape from.

"We" drew lines in the sand out of pure self interest (oil usually) and told people which country they now lived in and are now reaping the harvest we sowed.

Tough ain't it?


----------



## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

"Eritrea, Sudan and Afghanistan, with groups from Somalia, Pakistan and Chad".

From that lot there does not appear to be a lot of influence of our civilising hand apart from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Afghanistan was never part of the Commonwealth. Pakistan has been an independent country for over 65 years and I doubt very much that any of the refugees are over that age.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

As has been said before.

We are a VERY overcrowded island (something like the fifth most populated country pr square Km IN THE WORLD. 

There is only a finite number of working people to pay into "The system" therefore there is only a finite amount of money to be distributed TO EVERYONE. 

Is it therefore fair or equitable that IF someone from a land far far away can find a way of getting themselves into this country some of that finite amount of money should be lavished upon them? I accept that some are more than willing to work and pay into "The system" but there is a proportion that have no intention of doing anything other than bleed our system dry quoting such things as their "Human rights" What about the "Rights" of those who have paid into the system for countless years who, in the twilight years need medical/social help and care!!!

The Government of the UK needs to clamp down HARD and state that NO_ONE who has arrived as a migrant (note NOT refugee) can access ANY benefits for a set period of time. The problem with that of course is proving who is and isnt a refugee rather than an oportunistic migrant.

My personal view is that the Australians seem to have it right is respect of migrants/refugees. Robust entry qualifications and TOTAL rejection of those who complain about the treatment they get. As their prime Minister said some while ago "The one great right everyone in this country has is, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE!" 

I am saddened by anyones death, no matter what the cause, BUT there IS a system to deal with genuine refugees. Anyone entering this country who destroys their passport so their country of origin cannot be confirmed should be made to work for the "common good" with BASIC accomodation and food provided. I suspect the influx would reduce to a trickle very quickly. Those who are genuine refugees would probably be happy with thosm rules. Economic migrants wouldnt, and those are the ones we NEED to discourage.

Somewhat radical ideas I accept, but are they actually unreasonable?? You decide.

Andy


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Camdoon said:


> "Eritrea, Sudan and Afghanistan, with groups from Somalia, and Chad".
> 
> From that lot there does not appear to be a lot of influence of our civilising hand apart from Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> 
> Afghanistan was never part of the Commonwealth. Pakistan has been an independent country for over 65 years and I doubt very much that any of the refugees are over that age.


Didn't realise they spoke English and played cricket, apart from Pakistan

tony


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

siggie said:


> The German POW's is not the same thing as was being discussed earlier - after the war many prisoners did not want to return to Germany as their hometown was in the Soviet sector and fearing another spell of imprisonment in Soviet hands, decided to stay in Britain where they became known as "DPs" or displaced persons. Others, as you say, married local girls and stayed in the UK. In all about 24,000 former POW's stayed in the UK after the war. In comparison, the estimated number of ILLEGAL immigrants to the UK is between 10 and 36 times that figure; between 310,000-570,000 (UKG figures) or between 417,000-863,000 (LSE figures).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suspect its only the youngest and fittest that would run that gauntlet! Would you really drag your wife and small children across war ravaged countries, over loaded and lethal boats where many die then on foot across a continent where you are likely to run into all sorts of bother? I saw a documentary a while back where migrants from Syria and Iraq were frequently beaten up, spat on and abused on their journey into Europe from Turkey into Greece and beyond.

Of course they are coming to get money, I suspect with the hope of sending some back. Its odd though how people are perceived. I remember the famine of Ethiopia and Live aid etc and how the whole of Europe and the USA got behind the charity efforts and tried to help. Perhaps the media needs to change its tack on depicting the migrants as scum and thieves that are wanting to rob us and start showing them as desperate people and what is driving them to such actions.

At the moment there is very little public support and they are treated with suspicion and contempt. More aid and support is needed at source to stop them coming in the first place really and a few months ago the EU agreed to tripple this aid. It would seem there are no easy answers but it does drive home to me how lucky we are to live in Europe.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I dont know

Once apon atime
We are took a journey

To Jerusalem

We had nothing

Andslowlyovertime 

We had a little bit
No one paid us anything

Albert worked at whatever he could

I sewed dolls for the market

Bit there you go

We are completely solvent 

Not a money worry in the world
But a really wistful feeling for those days

It's how it was

Aldra


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

This makes interesting reading in relation to this thread

Would Calais migrants really be better off in the UK? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33268521


----------



## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

siggie said:


> Why are they so desperate to get out of France?


Because there's French people there?>


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Camdoon said:


> "Eritrea, Sudan and Afghanistan, with groups from Somalia, Pakistan and Chad".
> 
> From that lot there does not appear to be a lot of influence of our civilising hand apart from Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> 
> Afghanistan was never part of the Commonwealth. Pakistan has been an independent country for over 65 years and I doubt very much that any of the refugees are over that age.


Well you learn something everyday don't you?

I never realised until now that countries needed to be a member of the Commonwealth before we could meddle in their affairs and tell them how to behave.

Neither did I realise there was some sort of statute of limitation on meddling i.e. after so many years it doesn't matter any more.

As for white Australians telling anyone else they can't come in..........


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

What puzzles me is how many of these refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants (delete as required) manage to find the huge sums of hard cash that the people traffickers demand of them to even start their journeys.


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Stanner said:


> Neither did I realise there was some sort of statute of limitation on meddling i.e. after so many years it doesn't matter any more.


I know what you mean. Bloody Romans! What have the Romans ever done for us? :wink2:


----------



## MeFeinMcCabe (Mar 28, 2009)

The OP is right, its very sad.

What's equally as sad is the lack of compassion by the usual bunch on here that spout their nonsense at every opportunity about immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers, benefit scroungers, Scottish Nationalists or whatever the UKIP flavour of the day is.

I said a wee prayer for that poor man yesterday for the repose of his soul and a wee prayer for the angry brigade on here.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I hope you don't regard my post as from the Angry Brigade or, heaven forbid, a UKIP stance.


----------



## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

You are so right Mr Mc Cabe..........................the attitude of some people on here never ceases to amaze me. 

Self seeking me me me..................and my family of course.

No understanding of the history of the situation we are in..............largely the British Empire coming home to roost.

And a deep seated, though cleverly hidden, racism and hatred towards "them lot". (and of course lefty, wishy,washy liberals 

choking on Political Correctness gone mad) 

BUT it's a lot better than sites where such attitudes are considered FUN."

"One less to worry about" was the comment of one of their motorhoming buddies.


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Webby1 said:


> And a deep seated, though cleverly hidden, racism and hatred towards "them lot".


Are you insinuating that I am a racist because of my views on illegal immigration?


----------



## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

So we've had 4 pages and 36 posts about the sad death yesterday of a would be illegal immigrant who presumably knew that his actions were risky. Meanwhile 10 people have died in road accidents in the UK since then - what about a thread for them?


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

peribro said:


> Meanwhile 10 people have died in road accidents in the UK since then - what about a thread for them?


Surely they knew their actions were risky as well?


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

siggie said:


> Are you insinuating that I am a racist because of my views on illegal immigration?


 I wouldn't accuse you of being a racist but you don't seem to be a very compassionate person do you?


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

If we are talking about illegal immigrants

I think we need to remember that they too are totally self interested

And care very little for the the effect of their actions on others

In the main they want a better life and have little regard as to the methods used to get it

The lorry drivers passing via Calais are plagued to death by them, many of the immigrants are becoming violent

These drivers are trying to go about legitimate business, and are being fined for things beyond their control

Do we actually believe that once these illegal immigrants reach England they will turn into upstanding moral individuals, shunning illegal work??

If they are genuine asylum seekers the channels exist for them to apply to remain legally

I save my sympathy for those individuals who are escaping death and persecution 

Not for those whose actions cause mayhem and who couldn't give a toss whose lives they trample on
However I remain sad at a young mans death
Aldra


----------



## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

An interesting post Sandra and I would say pretty close to the mark.

Now here is a nagging question that I have had for some time, I do not know the answer or how to find out.

What proportion of the unfortunates in Calais have any formal identification. I have seen tv docs and when they find them in trucks they are herded up and someone might say they are (afgans) for example without anyone saying anything, pictures taken, then handed to french police and off they go.

All based on TV but as far as I can tell no ID means you cannot easily send someone back because we do not know where to.If genuine ID would assist in determining whether they have a case surely?

A fair few seem have telephones.

I saw a program a couple of years ago on US/Canada border where they took a guys phone downloaded the data and ran a program to see if any known numbers came up.

If we had a system that we could use, it might just show up the smuglers/gang leaders that are promoting this misery and who knows what else. I suppose that could be seen an non pc but they are in a lot of cases breaking and entering a locked vehicle and damaging it in the process.

Ian


----------



## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

greygit said:


> I wouldn't accuse you of being a racist but you don't seem to be a very compassionate person do you?


I have compassion where compassion is due. As Aldra, and others before, said, there are the correct channels to go through if you want to come to the UK.

I know this first hand because my non-white, non-EU wife (see, I'm far from racist!) has had to go through those channels in order that I could bring her back to the UK on my return from abroad! We spent months, a lot of form filling, providing lots of supporting paperwork and a lot of money to get her visas (we have to go through this process every few years before she finally gains the right to remain here). It would have been far easier for her to come to the UK as a single woman on a work visa than as the wife of a born and bred UK citizen with nearly 30 years in the UK military!

Why should others think that they can just come here when the rest of us have to jump through hoops? Genuine asylum seekers should seek asylum. Economic migrants and family members should apply for visas like everyone else. It is not a case of lacking compassion, it is a case of there being procedures in place to cater for all situations.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Very well put Siggie !!!

I have absolutley no problem whatsoever with genuine refugees, but the vast majority trying to get into the UK appear to me to be economic migrants intent on taking advantage of our generous welfare system, and THAT by any reasonable measure should NOT be tolerated.

Andy


----------



## MeFeinMcCabe (Mar 28, 2009)

Here is an interesting article which some of you might find interesting about "outsourcing" Europe's immigration

In mid-June, about a hundred migrants - mostly from war-torn Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea - attempted to cross Italy's border into France, but were denied entry. The incident provoked Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi to not only claim that the EU's response to the arrival of tens of thousands of migrants on Italy's shores had "not been good enough", but to also warn the EU that Italy would deploy an anti-immigration plan that would "hurt Europe".
"If Europe wants to be Europe," said Renzi, "it has to take on this problem as a single bloc. This is Plan A. If Europe chooses solidarity, good. If it doesn't, we have Plan B ready. But it would first and foremost hurt Europe".

Now, Hungary is deploying Plan B. 

Only a few days after Renzi's harsh critique of the EU's immigration policy, Hungary announced plans to build a four-metre-high wall along its 175km border with Serbia to stop the flow of undocumented migrants. 

At the same time, as part of the government's national consultation on immigration and terrorism, eight million questionnaires were sent to citizens, asking, "Would you support the government placing illegal immigrants in internment camps?" and "Do you agree that mistaken immigration policies contribute to the spread of terrorism?"
In other words, Viktor Orban's government is openly equating immigrants with terrorists and even recommending that they be sent to work camps.

Additionally, in May, the Hungarian government distributed a series of posters suggesting that immigrants were unwelcome in the country; posters with slogans such as "If you come to Hungary, you must respect our laws!" and "If you come to Hungary, you must not take work away from Hungarians!"

In office for two years, in 2012 Orban declared the potential need for a new political system in Europe.
"Let us hope that God will help us," he said, "and we will not have to invent a new type of political system instead of a democracy that would need to be introduced for the sake of economic survival".
In a speech in July 2014, Orban finally announced the death of liberal democracy and the arrival of a new form of state called the "workfare state", which would abandon liberal methods.

And then, in one of his speeches in May, Orban went a step further, claiming explicitly that "dictatorial countries are more successful than democratic ones".

And what has the EU's reaction been to Hungary overtly sliding into dictatorship?

When Hungary announced that it would build its anti-immigrant wall to separate it from Serbia, the EU's commissioner on immigration said, "We have only recently taken down walls in Europe; we should not be putting them up."

But this is far from the truth. What Europe is undertaking at the moment is something we might call the "outsourcing" of new walls. Just take the anti-immigration walls between Morocco and Spain, which were constructed by Spain on the North African coast to deter potential migrants from crossing into Europe. So, instead of building walls in Europe, we build them in countries where the migrants come from. Instead of solving the problem, we are "outsourcing" the problem. 
And it was again Renzi who detected where the real problem came from in the first place. He openly said that the international community, after toppling Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, bore responsibility for the chaos in Libya that forced hundreds of thousands of migrants to cross by boat to southern Italy. Over the last year alone, more than 170,000 migrants reached Italy from Libya, and so far this year's total is about 57,000.
Libya, among other countries, makes it clear that it is not only the EU's failed immigration policy that is causing this humanitarian catastrophe; it was the EU's war policy that created the conditions for such unprecedented immigration waves in the first place.

And the real reaction to this humanitarian catastrophe was best embodied at the recent EU summit in Riga, Latvia, where the Head of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker jokingly greeted Orban with a "Hello, dictator," and slapped him on the cheek. 

Although it is clear that Hungary is openly moving towards a dictatorship, the EU's political leaders refer to the prospect as a joke. The real threat to the EU is not Italy's or Hungary's Plan B.
The real threat is the cynical attitude represented by Juncker and his fellow commissioners, who are not only provoking military wars from Libya to Syria and economic wars from Spain to Greece, but are now "outsourcing" the very problems they created.
Hungary's inclination towards dictatorship has only been encouraged and made worse by the EU's own dictatorship. After all, the only thing worse than dictatorship is a soft dictatorship. 

The media here will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the oppressors.


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

It's also affecting us motorhome owners directly as well.
Me twice .On one occasion a guy tried to get under my camper while I was in the pet check in at Euro tunnel. The staff there called in the police and on a second occasion when stuck in a hold up leaving Euro tunnel for the A16 some of these characters who were under a bridge were gesturing to climb on my roof . obviously not the brightest ones as I was en route to Spain
Didn't see any desperate women or children just young guys in designer clothing and sporting mobile phones.


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

This Orban guy. Can we have one too?


----------



## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

I have no problems hating Herr Juncker for his treatment of Greece. It is good to see our left wingers now understanding what the fourth Reich is all about re borders. I have been highlighting the treatment of Turkey.

I have no issues seeing immigrants from Africa as potential terrorists as ISIS has stated they would infiltrate Europe by this method.

Did we not vote to get rid of liberals in the last election as well?

How ironic that the Spaniards who claim Gib are having to build fences round their enclaves in N Africa.

I do not think it is unreasonable for countries to follow due process and for France to process those in Calais.


----------



## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Why would the French want to process these people?

They evidently do not want to stay in France for what ever reason.

If they were to start the process it would be tantamount to agreeing that migrants should claim assylum when they 1st hit the EU and not allow them onward passage to their intended destination.

Ian


----------



## divil (Jul 3, 2011)

siggie said:


> Why are they so desperate to get out of France?


Yep I'm really sad whenever I have to leave!


----------

