# supermarket fuel



## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Over the last year the Twin has been running on Sainsbury's diesel and the computer has been giving a quite consistent 38mpg. I have just returned from Dorset on Tesco diesel and the computer average was 30mpg. Perhaps I was a bit heavy on the pedal today but that is a big difference.???


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Well the fuel came from the same depot and probably the same tanker. So heavy right foot or hills or...


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

GerryD said:


> Well the fuel came from the same depot and probably the same tanker. So heavy right foot or hills or...


Hmmm i'm not sure, i've had a problem with Morrisons fuel for years and i wont use them now as i always have less MPG, some will say its in your head! well i've tried with all of my vehicles and i can usually get around 60 more mile to the tank using BP, Shell ect.

So i think you should make your mind up as you will be told its the same stuff!!

Steve


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*fuel*

Steve I was going to make a silly joke and say its been watered down :lol: 
But funny enough could it be thinned down (i really do not know with what ) because it is cheaper fuel.
Just a thought. shall I get back to my kitchen sink.
mavis    
Just googled the question and there is a lot of help on the web

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=65040
*I think everybody knows that supermarkets like Morrison's, Tesco etc fuel is cheaper than branded name like Shell and BP. Somehow I have the feeling based on unverified experience that supermarket fuel is less efficient in terms of mile per gallon it covers. *
They do use different additives


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Rowley

I think you have been driving North into a headwind all the way home today... for our van this can make 3-4 miles per gallon difference add a heavy right foot and it may account for more :wink: 

Mike


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I have to agree and disagree with Spykal.  8O 

He's dead right, but I reckon it makes an even bigger difference than he just quoted. :wink:  

A motorhome is one heck of a slab to push through the air, and a 10mph headwind has almost the same effect on mpg as driving 10mph faster. 8O


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: fuel*



locovan said:


> Steve I was going to make a silly joke and say its been watered down :lol:
> But funny enough could it be thinned down (i really do not know with what ) because it is cheaper fuel.
> Just a thought. shall I get back to my kitchen sink.
> mavis
> ...


Hi Mavis, you should have just let rip 

I suppose its down to preference but in my head i've tested it and believe supermarket fuels are rubbish


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

This has been discussed at length in the past. I worked for an oil distributer and on occasions delivered petrol and if you go down Oil Sites
Road in Ellesmere Port you will see the supemarket tankers in the Shell depot in the queue with all the other tankers waiting to fill up.
Cheers Sid


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## oilslick (Oct 3, 2007)

*convinced its different*

It might come from the same depot but I am convinced its a lower grade.

I had very inconsistent mpg figures driving to work 30 miles a day. When a colleague told me he had been warned not to keep using supermarket fuel in his car, because it didnt run right, I started to check.

Over the course of a year I logged how much I bought, where from and mpg. It became obvious that I was getting 10-15% less mpg on supermarket fuel.

I had enough data to carry out significance testing on the results, and it proved positive. (more than 3 standard deviations between results).

So even if they go to the same depot, maybe they fill from a different pipeline?


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

I've worked in and around the oil industry all my life and it is true that the major brands develop their own additive packages. It's also true that tankers delivering to many different forecourts - including supermarkets - fill up at the same gantries in the distribution terminal. The additives are included either at that point, or in one of the storage tanks at the refinery. Supermarket fuel is OK - it meets the basic spec. But it may not (probably does not) have these additives.

I've met many, many highly qualified boffins who spend their entire careers developing and improving additive packages for their particular employer's brand of fuel, so there really is a difference. Whether it's worth the extra, or works in your particular vehicle, is another question!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*petrol*

So I make my husband buy in Tesco and Sainsbury to get the points but in the long run it could be costing us more in MPG and wear on the Engine.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok going back to the Kitchen sink :lol: :lol:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Fuel*

Hello,

I travel anything from 30,000 - 50,000 miles a year and use five different vehicles. I used to work for shell long before the new super fuels came in and Stanlow used to supply the Supermarkets with the same fuel then. In my opinion there is no noticeable difference today.

However, when in France, you usualy find that BP Ultimate is only 5-10 ¢ dearer than regular fuel, as opposed to around 10-15p here in the UK, so I do use it if only to take advantage of its suggested detergent properties. Though, even after using 3 0r 4 tanks, we do not see any better fuel consumption.

Marketing, great is it not?. Have you seen the recent quartlerly profits for Shell and BP?.

Trev.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi all,

When in France, I was using the cheaper supermarket fuels, and I did notice that the initial engine start of the day was quite a bit smokier, with rough and lumpy idling . 
When I filled up from nearly empty with Total, there was a noticeable difference each day from then onwards, but not with regards to economy.

We have a Total filling station about 300 yards from Morrison's, and their fuel is just as cheap,(is there such a thing as cheap fuel!!!), so that's where we go to fill up now, and the starting up and idling are consistently better. 

Jock.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

um

I have noticed in the past the plenty of surface water can make quite a big difference to economy..


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Water*



johng1974 said:


> um
> 
> I have noticed in the past the plenty of surface water can make quite a big difference to economy..


On the road or the diesel? :wink:

Trev.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)




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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

What ever happened to Jet and ICI petrol?


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

I am sure I have seen some jet stations about the place, Cornwall maybe ?

it was a year or so since I was last there ...


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*jet petrol*

We have a Jet station in Whitstable they are about but not as many as there used to be :lol:

Well funny enough
http://www.conocophillips.co.uk/JetBrand/index.htm


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## TwinTravellers (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi,

I think I must be a bit 'thick' I can never tell how many mpg our Twin does!! or any of our other cars for that fact! Do we have a computer on board that we don't know about, that can tell us mpg and can it send e-mails!!!!!!!!!!
Ros.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

hi Ros, I cant really help you with onboard computer presence 

but fill the twin up
reset the trip counter, 
drive around a bit - a weekend away for example, 
then fill it up again..

the amount you put in (in litres) on the second fiill up is the amount you used since the first fill up... 

then you know you used x litres and went y miles

from there its easy to convert litres to gallons and get your Miles Per Gallon 

it will give you an idea of economy for every day driving..


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Jet*



bigfoot said:


> What ever happened to Jet and ICI petrol?


And Chevron!


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Jet*



teemyob said:


> bigfoot said:
> 
> 
> > What ever happened to Jet and ICI petrol?
> ...


And Fina.

Jock.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

I think Fina got gobbled by elf and total..

although dont see much fuel from any of them, maybe they have more a presence in france

think chevron are still about, but yet again, maybe not in UK

edit. being silly.. Total stations are all over the place....


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## viator (May 1, 2007)

Anyone remember this advert with a claim to give more miles per gallon. In my early driving days delivered from a hand operated pump.
viator


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

As stated above, it is all the same components with minor differences in additives. I too work in the oil industry and we test the stuff...........

The "ultimates" have extra detergent and cetane improvers and will provide benefits in a chipped engine but I ran BP ultimate in my (standard) diesel car for 3000 miles of careful monitoring and achieved 0.3 MPG less. A colleague found about a 5% improvement in economy with a remapped car but the maths didn't balance the extra cost.

Total absorbed Total/Fina/Elf but Elf and Total are still used. Chevron absorbed Texaco and you don't see Chevron stations in UK as they are branded Texaco. Jet is Conoco who also supply independents. 

ALL diesel sold in UK and EU must meet the EN590 spec which does not leave a lot of fiddle room for the blend (change something and something else goes out of spec). Additives are very expensive and thus their use is limited.

I am sure that any 10% differences in pump fuel would not bear too close statistical scrutiny, but it's a free world and everyone can buy whatever they choose, which is good for peace of mind. Personally I always buy the cheapest I can get, in the full knowledge that it will meet the test specification that the engine is designed to use.........


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## framptoncottrell (Jan 6, 2006)

Some time ago What Car? tested all the available petrols - supermarket, high performance, the lot - and found negligible differences between them. Some high performance cars have to use 98 octane petrol, but apart from that you do best to buy cheapest.

The rest is psychological.

Dr (musical, not medical) Roy

PS I haven't seen a comparable test of different brands of diesel. And there are quite a few Jet garages on the continent - I hadn't noticed how few of them there are now in England.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Our local (Doncaster)Shell stations always seem to be cheaper than the supermarkets.
Plenty of Jet stations in South Yorkshire.


I always thought that the French litres were a shorter measure than in the uk

Dave P


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

With all this chat about additives etc. can anyone tell me why diesel is now at least 10p a litre more than unleaded than it was a year ago?

When unleaded was about 92p a litre, diesel was maybe 96p. Now it's at least 10p a litre more expensive. During all the talk of high prices and the recent downturn in the economy with the subsequent reduction in fuel prices, what justification is there for this wide differential? It really infuriates me and it seems that government, pundits etc. just ignore it.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

was thinking the same thing on way home, Colonel


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

colonel said:


> With all this chat about additives etc. can anyone tell me why diesel is now at least 10p a litre more than unleaded than it was a year ago?
> 
> When unleaded was about 92p a litre, diesel was maybe 96p. Now it's at least 10p a litre more expensive. During all the talk of high prices and the recent downturn in the economy with the subsequent reduction in fuel prices, what justification is there for this wide differential? It really infuriates me and it seems that government, pundits etc. just ignore it.


Supply and demand are the devils in the detail here. The global demand for diesel is higher than for gasoline which pushes the prices up on the wholesale market for blend components/products. The pump price is only partially related to the crude price. It infuriates me as well but when people stop buying cheap chinese clothing and toys we might see a better balance (that's not going to happen then). Already the global slowdown has affected refinery prices and this will continue into next year.

We also have a real problem in that oil is priced in dollars and the pound has gone from 2.04 to 1.60 which makes the oil more expensive in sterling terms. The 1.60 exchange rate is viewed in some circles more of a normalisation of overvalued sterling than a real collapse


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

> The global demand for diesel is higher than for gasoline which pushes the prices up on the wholesale market for blend components/products


Absolutely correct duxdeluxe

I guess that's us motorhomers then. We should start ordering petrol engined versions. Capitalism has a lot to answer for. I think we do sometimes forget that it has some serious flaws. How can a global economy that is in decline, keep prices of fuel higher because of supply and demand now, when it's a finite resource and we'll all suffer when it runs out. Aren't we a greedy thoughtless bunch.

Damn Yankees I blame... whoops shooting self in foot.

p.s. why duxdeluxe - I knew a band named that once ?


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi,
I agree with everything duxdeluxe said, I worked in a refinery for 27 years, we made two grades of fuel, one for summer one for winter. Basically most supermarkets and some rival brands loaded the same fuel from our depots, any perceived differences are an illusion.
What is really annoying is gordon brown on tv telling oil companies to reduce their prices when he gets 63p out of every pound we spend on fuel.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Fuel*

Hello

I run primarily on Tesco diesel in the UK and seem to be getting near 24 mpg for my van.

I will add though that when I have run previous motorhomes os Swiss diesel the computer on board does show improved reading. However, there are quite a lot of hilly stretches on the Swiss motorways and yes, I go up, but coming down the computer often shows 99.9 mpg as the instantaneous consumption.

Russell


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

colonel said:


> p.s. why duxdeluxe - I knew a band named that once ?


Classified information :wink: It is connected with the avatar in some way

That above comment dates you a little, by the way


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: Fuel*



Rapide561 said:


> I will add though that when I have run previous motorhomes os Swiss diesel the computer on board does show improved reading. However, there are quite a lot of hilly stretches on the Swiss motorways and yes, I go up, but coming down the computer often shows 99.9 mpg as the instantaneous consumption.
> 
> Russell


There's the answer!! Ignore all these water injection rubbish things........ all you have to do is to plan your route so that you are always going downhill and magic!!! Instant fantastic fuel economy. 

Can I be the first to sell the route planning maps on ebay for the gullible and stupid??


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Fuel*



Rapide561 said:


> Hello
> 
> I run primarily on Tesco diesel in the UK and seem to be getting near 24 mpg for my van.
> 
> ...


Hi Russell,

Funnily enough, I get the same economy in a 44 tonne artic, under the same circumstances, according to the LED display. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Total*

Morning

Jock - I would have expected 8 -10 mpg depending on various factors. I believe that the Mercedes fleet hauling Tesco lorries is voluntaryily restricted to 52 mph for better economy.

Meanwhile, the TOTAL chain are offering a money back guarantee on their dearer fuels if you do not see an improvement in mpg. How the dickens that will be agreed/disproved I do not know, but I will give it a whirl when I next fill up.

Russell


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Total*



Rapide561 said:


> MorningJock - I would have expected 8 -10 mpg depending on various factors. I believe that the Mercedes fleet hauling Tesco lorries is voluntaryily restricted to 52 mph for better economy.
> 
> Russell


HI Russell,

I was referring to the 99.9 mpg on the downhill stretch...............at 44 tonnes :wink: :wink: :wink:

Jock.


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