# Cracked Shower Cubicle



## MrGaz

We are on a bit of a roller coaster ride at the moment having just confirmed our order for our new 2009 Apache 634U yesterday we have now found out the shower cubicle in our van has 2 cracks in the corner of the walls about half way up.... 
The dealer says this is quite common and often due to flexing of the van when taken on the road for the first few times, I am not convinced 
He says its an easy fix but as the cubicle is now moulded as one 3 wall unit and looks to me as if the shower room walls would have to be removed to remove and refit the cubicle
Has anybody had this repair done by their dealer or factory and was the results as good as new?


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## erneboy

I had the shower base out of my Mohican twice leaving the walls in place. The bases are very thin and quite weak and often they are installed on top of carpet which means they can flex a lot when you stand on them. That leads to stress cracking. I removed the carpet and put some timber below the base to support it, Alan.


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## ianhc

Have had it happen in my Scout and Chieftain. I repaired both with a product we sell called adheseal. Fantastic bonding and sealing properties, even cures under water. Available in white and black.
On the forum i cannot give our website even though others may benefit due to advertisers rules!!!! so i cannot tell u where to get it!!!! CRAZY EH ?? but my led banner should be at the top of the page.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

We have a crack around the shwer atachment.

What cr4p quality we are expected to endure


Dave p


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## vidal999

*Cracked shower tray*

Just had mine Replaced,the whole shower tray bottom that is,on the Mohican 8O


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## oilslick

*unfit for service...*

judging by the number of threads on here regarding cracked sinks and showers, especially on Autotrails (myself included), it occours to me that there is a design fault.

The plastic is too thin.

Mounting on carpet is poor installation (design also?).

In my open opinion this opens up a whole doorway under the sale of goods act, unfit for service.

I really feel Autotrail should be fixing these problems, irrespective of age, free of charge, and at the same time attending to the design. They need to understand that £10 more plastic could greatly influence the next choice of motorhome.

The excuse that "It is going to move around on the first few drives" is absolutely horrific!! I wonder what it is going to be like in 10 years time?

Imagine if the staircase in your new house started to crack the first feww times you ran up it... "oh thats perfectly normal sir...."

Grant


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## pneumatician

*Showwr Tray*

It may make you feel a little better to know I had similar problems on our Autosleeper shower tray.

The "fitter" had to get the two drain holes in the tray aligned to the holes in the van base.
The drain holes required a 25mm dia Hole, just to make sure of alignment the holes in the base were cut at approx 100mm dia.
This meant that the shower tray was unsupported arround the drain and one night it fell out completely. I managed an almost invisible repair by installing an Annulus into the floor arround each drain and remoulding the drain into place in the tray.

Steve


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## erneboy

It is not only Autotrail. My new Frankia had exactly the same problem and I know another member with a Frankia also had it happen. It seems fairly widespread and is mostly because the bases are very thin and badly supported underneath. In the case of the Frankia the tray developed multiple cracks round both outlets. It turned out that there was no support underneath about half of the base and that only the outer edges were in contact with the floor. A new one is now fitted with good support below, Alan.


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## RichardnGill

Would some think like expanding foam not be a good base to solve this problem?


Richard...


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## erneboy

Foam might do the job, it would be difficult to ensure it spread fully below the base and given how light and flexible the bases are it might force them up as it expands and leave you with an uneven floor and bad drainage. I would recommend some timber cut to fit, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

It beats me why some people are so accepting of these horrendous faults.

If we ever are fortunate enough to be in a position to buy a new motorhome we probably wouldn't, but go for a used one where it has had all these faults sorted.

Owners of these disaster ridden, expensive motorhomes should get some back bone and sue the manufacturers until they realise that they cannot continue to produce crap.

Kev


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## erneboy

Kev, I can only speak for myself. I have had problems with several vans but in each case these have been rectified under warranty so legal action was not needed. 

I regard failures of this sort as quality control issues and am amazed at how poor QA from almost all manufacturers is. Having run a quality assured company for many years I can only conclude that either these companies are not quality assured or that they fiddle the paper work so that the true number of repeat failures of badly specified or incorrectly fitted components is not recorded. 

I consider this to be foolish. It may cost a little more to buy better quality fixtures and to fit them correctly but in the long run it is cheaper and less bothersome to send out a product in which you have confidence, Alan.


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## bigwhitebird

MrGaz said:


> We are on a bit of a roller coaster ride at the moment having just confirmed our order for our new 2009 Apache 634U yesterday we have now found out the shower cubicle in our van has 2 cracks in the corner of the walls about half way up....
> The dealer says this is quite common and often due to flexing of the van when taken on the road for the first few times, I am not convinced
> He says its an easy fix but as the cubicle is now moulded as one 3 wall unit and looks to me as if the shower room walls would have to be removed to remove and refit the cubicle
> Has anybody had this repair done by their dealer or factory and was the results as good as new?


 HI
If i was you get hold of auto-trail their selfs at grimsby we have a mohican and its a year old and have had a few small things go wrong , if you get hold of aftersales and let then know whats wrong thet will put it right.
bigwhitebird


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Quality control systems do not ensure that the product or service is of good quality.

If poor to start with the goods will at best be the same

dave p


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## erneboy

Dave, Quality Control should ensure that goods and services meet the specified standards. They must ensure that faults and failures are detected and rectified, but further and crucially, action should be taken to prevent recurrence of the same faults. These are obligatory parts of any recognised Quality Assurance regime, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I wonder what the sales figures are for all the different manufacturers, do the more expensive ones sell more, are they even much better, We have a Laika, and like so many it is far from perfect, however, apart from a few rattles and squeaks, the Laika bits are almost as fresh as the day they were installed.
The only problems are the Fridge which seems to be getting sorted (must ring Philthefridge today) and the Smev oven.

If I had to nit pick, there is a little crazing on the edge of the bathroom basin, but this is due to leaning on it, and that's not what it's there for, the shower trays are rock solid, the plumbing is first rate, and not yet blocked or leaked (touching wood as I type) and I don't expect it too, is it any wonder that Hymer bought into the company.

There is no doubt that quality sells, but unfortunately so does rubbish there will always be those who cannot afford to go up market, we couldn't so we bought a used up market MH.

If we continue to buy from the manufacturers who produce the not so good MH's, then they will happily continue to produce more of the same, the only answer is to ask around, dig the dirt and vote with your wallet, if you buy rubbish, rubbish is what you'll end up with, and with all the bad publicity, you may end up stuck with it.
Kev.


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## oldmokey

Hi All
In the first year 2 walls of our shower cracked, that was two years ago so Auto Trail have learnt nothing and still using very thin plastic. 

Chelston relined the 2 showers over the damaged ones all appears to be ok now


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## Pudsey_Bear

oldmokey said:


> Hi All
> In the first year 2 walls of our shower cracked, that was two years ago so Auto Trail have learnt nothing and still using very thin plastic.
> 
> Chelston relined the 2 showers over the damaged ones all appears to be ok now


I assume you bought it new, if so, I'm amazed that you think this is "OK"

If we don't ask for things to be sorted out properly, they will continue to fob customers of with half hearted repairs, in the knowledge that if by any chance someone has the temerity to complain they can just do another botch job, and never bother to spend another tenner to build a proper one.

We are probably getting the manufacturers we deserve, even if you buy the most basic model of MH, from the cheapest of manufacturers, you have the right to have to expect things to work as they should to last for at least the warranty period, and not for things to crack, stop working or fall off.

If any other type of manufacturer treated us like this we'd just boycott them.

All the above is true, but we'd need to get some back bone to get it sorted, why would you get rid of an MH you've spent a couple of years sorting only to start again on the new one.

How many of you own a Ford or a Fiat car, if not would you post why you don't, I will make the assumption that they're not as good as you can get elsewhere, a mate had one but it was nothing but trouble, but because of this they're trying to improve things to make you want to buy them, Ford does seem to have improved, but I've never heard anyone reccomend a Fiat, so why do we leap at buying their latest creations, we should let the van lads have them for a couple of years to see if they are actually any better than their last offerings.

You might assume from my posts on this topic that I don't put up with crap treatment from manufacturers or dealers, you'd be right, I have always strived to give my best to an employer, and when I was running my own businesses I bent over backwards to ensure my customers got what they paid for, this is how I was brought up, if I had to work an hour to pay for something then it had to bloody well be worth it, or else.

Kev.


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## Broom

Hi All

We have had 2 walls and the shower tray replaced under warranty.

I think a lot of motorhome showers suffer from these flexing cracks, if you want to see them use a white tubed extension light.

Best Regards
Broom


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## oldmokey

Kev this is your Quote
"I assume you bought it new, if so, I'm amazed that you think this is "OK"

If we don't ask for things to be sorted out properly, they will continue to fob customers of with half hearted repairs, in the knowledge that if by any chance someone has the temerity to complain they can just do another botch job, and never bother to spend another tenner to build a proper one."

To me this was not a half hearted repair, it would have caused more problems fitting a new shower cubical than relining the old one.

*The main point was Auto Trail still producing dodgie goods after 2 years knowing about the problems*.

The warranty and sale of goods act only offers a repair, replacement or refund. I don't see the last two being offered for a cracked shower cubical so all we get is a repair.

All I am trying to do is warn other about the pit falls of buying an AutoTrail product, see my thread *Stress fractures in motor home roof *in the Auto trail section.


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## erneboy

I suppose none of would think it is OK. We would expect manufacturers to learn by their failures, so given that showers and roofs have been developing faults for several years now it seems obvious that Autotrail are willing to live with these faults. I changed from Autotrail vans for this reason. My last new Autotrail had many faults some of which still had not been satisfactorily repaired when it was two years old. The worst of these faults was a roof which leaked at three corners.

I have had faults in my new van but these are not faults which I have seen reported by others, except for the shower base cracking. In fairness there are many more Autotrails in the UK than there are Frankias, so I would expect to hear more about Autotrail faults. 

Generally though Frankia seem to take Quality Control more seriously as we have had only two faults, a Smev oven which would not stay lit and the shower base cracking up, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

oldmokey said:


> Kev this is your Quote
> "I assume you bought it new, if so, I'm amazed that you think this is "OK"
> 
> If we don't ask for things to be sorted out properly, they will continue to fob customers of with half hearted repairs, in the knowledge that if by any chance someone has the temerity to complain they can just do another botch job, and never bother to spend another tenner to build a proper one."
> 
> To me this was not a half hearted repair, it would have caused more problems fitting a new shower cubical than relining the old one.
> 
> *The main point was Auto Trail still producing dodgie goods after 2 years knowing about the problems*.
> 
> The warranty and sale of goods act only offers a repair, replacement or refund. I don't see the last two being offered for a cracked shower cubical so all we get is a repair.
> 
> All I am trying to do is warn other about the pit falls of buying an AutoTrail product, see my thread *Stress fractures in motor home roof *in the Auto trail section.


I'm sorry Oldmokey, I wasn't having a go at you, although on re-reading it, it does read that way, not so, so I apologise, my gripe is with the general apathy we all seem to have re MH makers, and with the way they seem to do as little as possible.

If I was a MH manufacturer, you can rest assured you would have had your vehicle repaired properly, regardless of what it cost, the phrase, "you only get one chance to make a first impression" is very valid, and I would fiercely guard my reputation, you would be far more likely to sing my praises if I was to sort any and all problems promptly and without delay, than if you'd never even had a problem in the first place, I'd sell more stock, and I would do well, in the unlikely event that I was to send out a Mh so bad it was rubbish to live with then it would be replaced, taken back into the workshop and used to show my workforce what was not the way to keep their jobs, and if they wanted to produce crap on my time to go find work elsewhere.

However we live in a namby pamby world and I'd get sued, so you have to employ people who have a good work ethic, and can do the job right first time.

Yes there will always be Monday/Friday MH's, that's human nature, but that doesn't cover using plastic you can read through for a shower wall/tray, or sink/basin it's one of the few high stress points on a MH, so you'd think the tossers would make it strong enough to support a 20 stone full grown adult, without cracking, it also seem to be the most moaned about problem, is anyone listening at the top, me thinketh not.


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## erneboy

Kev_n_Liz said:


> taken back into the workshop and used to show my workforce what was not the way to keep their jobs, and if they wanted to produce crap on my time to go find work elsewhere.


Kev, that is very good point. In my company we used a simple technique, we rarely disciplined anyone for doing bad work but we never let it pass. We took the offender to the job and asked "what went wrong here". We dealt with it as failure under our Quality Assurance procedures. Repeated failures would lead to discipline but that rarely happened. When an employee has been dealt with in this way a couple of times they soon buck their ideas up because all the others are aware that they have botched a job. There is no reason why these manufacturers can not do this when things are going wrong, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

erneboy said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> 
> taken back into the workshop and used to show my workforce what was not the way to keep their jobs, and if they wanted to produce crap on my time to go find work elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Kev, that is very good point. In my company we used a simple technique, we rarely disciplined anyone for doing bad work but we never let it pass. We took the offender to the job and asked "what went wrong here". We dealt with it as failure under our Quality Assurance procedures. Repeated failures would lead to discipline but that rarely happened. When an employee has been dealt with in this way a couple of times they soon buck their ideas up because all the others are aware that they have botched a job. There is no reason why these manufacturers can not do this when things are going wrong, Alan.
Click to expand...

That seems to be a reasonable and easy to facilitate as a concept, so why can't they do it, simple, they don't need to I suppose as we do it for them so they save an employee.

The really stupid thing is you don't need high paid, highly qualified staff to do quality control, just common sense, at least at this level, simply show someone how it should be when correct, and how to report errors. What's needed is the will, and that's missing.

Kev.


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## erneboy

Kev said "That seems to be a reasonable and easy to facilitate as a concept, so why can't they do it, simple, they don't need to I suppose as we do it for them so they save an employee". 

I do not want to be a bore on this topic but I thought a little more detail might be helpful for those who are interested. 

That method does not require additional employees, in fact it is desirable to make all employees responsible for the quality of their work rather than employ a "specialist". The employee who fails is taken to look at the sub-standard work by his immediate supervisor, a simple form is completed recording the fault, how it was rectified and what action would be taken to prevent it recurring. These records are kept and an employee failing regularly will then be referred up the management chain and may be retrained or disciplined. 

A similar procedure is followed in the case of suppliers and sub-contractors. 

In most cases it is a non-confrontational way of ensuring quality. It costs almost nothing to implement and saves a lot of money because it almost entirely removes the need for remedial work, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

erneboy said:


> Kev said "That seems to be a reasonable and easy to facilitate as a concept, so why can't they do it, simple, they don't need to I suppose as we do it for them so they save an employee".
> 
> I do not want to be a bore on this topic but I thought a little more detail might be helpful for those who are interested.
> 
> That method does not require additional employees, in fact it is desirable to make all employees responsible for the quality of their work rather than employ a "specialist". The employee who fails is taken to look at the sub-standard work by his immediate supervisor, a simple form is completed recording the fault, how it was rectified and what action would be taken to prevent it recurring. These records are kept and an employee failing regularly will then be referred up the management chain and may be retrained or disciplined.
> 
> A similar procedure is followed in the case of suppliers and sub-contractors.
> 
> In most cases it is a non-confrontational way of ensuring quality. It costs almost nothing to implement and saves a lot of money because it almost entirely removes the need for remedial work, Alan.


When you start building Motorhomes Alan, I'll look you up, or if you go to work for one of the big cowboy outfits.

Kev


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## erneboy

Thank you for kind words Kev. I have offered to explain or demonstrate this very simple system to anyone who is interested before on here, no takers. I would not want paying, happy to help, still no takers. 

There is one issue which complicates it slightly and that is traceability, how do you know who did the defective work, however that is also quite simply answered, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear

erneboy said:


> Thank you for kind words Kev. I have offered to explain or demonstrate this very simple system to anyone who is interested before on here, no takers. I would not want paying, happy to help, still no takers.
> 
> There is one issue which complicates it slightly and that is traceability, how do you know who did the defective work, however that is also quite simply answered, Alan.


A lot of companies use a simple QC sticker with the workers initials on it.

Kev.


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## lindyloot

> To me this was not a half hearted repair, it would have caused more problems fitting a new shower cubical than relining the old one.


We had a crack in the wall of our Autotrail Cheiftain (see an earlier thread) which we brought as a low mileage second hand. The dealer had it done under warranty. Charles and Son in Poole carried out the work and they fittted a panel over the original one, this gave the structure additional strength. Great job highly recommend the company. No problems since , nearly three years ago.
Lin


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## Pudsey_Bear

lindyloot said:


> To me this was not a half hearted repair, it would have caused more problems fitting a new shower cubical than relining the old one.
> 
> 
> 
> We had a crack in the wall of our Autotrail Cheiftain (see an earlier thread) which we brought as a low mileage second hand. The dealer had it done under warranty. Charles and Son in Poole carried out the work and they fittted a panel over the original one, this gave the structure additional strength. Great job highly recommend the company. No problems since , nearly three years ago.
> Lin
Click to expand...

This is fine for a used MH, but not a new one, as it just shouldn't happen, unless someone falls VERY heavily against it, and even then they'd have to be a big person to damage it so badly as to need repair, I've just measured the thickness of ours, 2.5mm and very rigid, no cracks anywhere.

Kev.


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## oldmokey

Hi Lindy Loot

You were very lucky all I got was Quote AT

"Obviously i am very sorry to learn of the problems you are experiencing with the GRP panels on your Auto-Trail. 

Auto-Trail unlike other manufacturers do provide warranty cover for GRP after year one, GRP components are normally excluded after the first year with most warranties however, we do offer cover up to a maximum of £400 and unfortunately i understand that this allowance has been used therefore the GRP would no longer have any cover. 

The exclusions after year one are explained in the warranty document supplied with the vehicle and i can only suggest you speak to XXXXX about what was said at the time of purchase. 

I note your comments regarding the sale of gods act however our warranty is separate to this act and it is on the terms and conditions of your Auto-Trail supplied warranty that i have based my reply. 

Please accept my sincere apologies for this problem and i am very sorry that i have been unable to offer any assistance."

I have had 3 cracks in 2years 9 months with just 10,000 on the clock.

To me the above quote from AT means we know their are problems with our motorhome roofs so we will only guarantee them for 1 Year the we will pass our responsibilities to the insurance company. 
So as to protect themselves and the insurance company will limit it to £400. 
The cracks I found were very fine see pictures in Auto Trail Forum" Stress fractures in motor home roofs" but are very expensive to repair £200+vat each and this is only for a cosmetic repair does not repair the cause.

In a previous post Chelston service centre corrected me for not quite telling the whole story, I will be most interested in their comments on this post.


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## lindyloot

oldmokey, we only had 1300 miles on the clock and it was 2yrs old. Our dealer, Hampshire and Dorset had given us a 6mth warranty and were as good as their word and not only did the shower panel but also replaced the cd/radio which was faulty.
Lin


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