# New Laws on Wilding in the Algarve



## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

This weeks Portugal News has a half page article on the attempt by the Alentejo and Algarve Campsite Association to get new laws curbing wild camping by motor homes on the Algarve coast. Obviously not gonna happen tomorrow, but shows the growing resentment of many to the sheer Nos of motor homes wilding here.
Estimating 180,000 motor homes currently in the Algarve!
Garcia


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

Pity they have not got the same view on stray dogs !

DJM


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Always the few who ruin it for the many.
We were amazed seeing what looked like Hippy colonies fairly well established in old trucks and vans.
Not saying they were untidy but could do better.

Ray.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I'm not surprised by the amount of wildcamping though.
The main Aire in Albufeira is a sprawling closely packed unattractive place.
The campsite is a disorganized dump which we refused to stay even for just one night. The aire we were directed to at Portamão was a street corner amongst the high rise apartments.
Silves and Messines have the right approach. Build proper Aires with facilities. Charge a reasonable fee and enjoy the benefits of a, largely, affluent temporary community to help the local economy.
Wildcamping on.the Algarve is/has become a blight on the landscape and needs to.be strictly controlled right now before Motorhomes are totally banned from.the region.
There are so many places in Portugal where wild campers can truly wild camp and the Portuguese are really tolerant but there is only so much abuse of their hospitality before the whole of southern Portugal says enough is enough.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

DJMotorhomer said:


> Pity they have not got the same view on stray dogs !
> 
> DJM


As a dog owner I can only agree. There are associations here dealing with the problem but they are fighting a losing battle. Just getting people to sterilise their pups and stop them breeding is a nightmare.The Portuguese don't actually mistreat their dogs any more than in any country but they do neglect them. Far too often, even more than France, the dogs are let out in the mornings to take themselves for a walk and they can be a real nuisance. Mostly they are left tied up and NEVER taken out! There are 2 near me that are left in a yard and so full of tics , but someone comes very day and leaves food and water. A strange attitude to a dog methinks......
However, getting back to the original post...I guess things won't change till any new laws are passed. I dread to think what the wilders are doing with their waste, and where do they get their water???
I hate crowded, organised campsites and crowded aires but crowded wild sites have got to be worse......
Garcia


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Interesting that in January, when we visited Sagres, there were large numbers of motorhomes parked, some clearly long-termers, on the huge car park near the fort. It all looked neat and organised and not overcrowded. We could not see any services there but the necessary were at Intermarche and Lidl nearby so thought we'd use it for a night. Next thing we knew was news that all the motorhomes had been moved off by the police and told not to return.

Looking for information afterwards I came across this:

http://portugalresident.com/bring-on-the-campers-says-algarve-tourism-boss

Note this was written in 2014 and the promised facilites to bring motorhomers in do not seem to have materialised at the fort. There are however huge numbers of motorhomers in Sagres.

There was also this:

http://portugalresident.com/algarve-reveals-network-offering-22-motorhome-friendly-spots

and

http://portugalresident.com/portuga...ector-faces-“absurd-and-discriminatory-rules”

There is also this which goes some way to explain why local residents are fed up with so-called wild campers who feel they have a right to do exactly as they please. As you say, the few spoil it for the many who act responsibly.

http://algarvedailynews.com/news/5107-motorcaravan-owners-continue-to-be-harassed-by-police

However, unless the local authorities do as they promise the situation will only get worse. I don't think I've ever seen so many motorhomes in such a small area as southern Portugal.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Last time we were in the Algarve and I saw some of the motorhome "encampments", I remember asking myself what the difference is between that and traveller sites in the UK. Apart from the apparent lack of mess, not a lot.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

peribro said:


> Last time we were in the Algarve and I saw some of the motorhome "encampments", I remember asking myself what the difference is between that and traveller sites in the UK. Apart from the apparent lack of mess, not a lot.


Indeed. Part of the problem is that the coastal camperstops have ceased to be places to overnight where, if you were travelling you could be sure of a place for a safe night no matter if you turned up in the early evening. They've become cheap campsites and people stay there for months on end. Anyone travelling through stands no chance if they don't arrive by lunchtime and even then you are rammed in between people who have awnings, chairs, tables and pot plants out or you have to try and find somewhere else as they are full.

Far from the interesting conversations with people like you who are moving around and want to chat -something we like about aires- each place has a fully fledged community who do not particularly wish to meet strangers.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I just dont get it. It just sounds grim to me. Why do people do it? From what I can gather the Costas arent much better. What is the appeal of cramming yourself onto a bit of wasteland cheek to jowl with other vans with the prospect of possibly being turfed off at any time by the Rozzers? Is it all in the hope of getting some milky tepid sunshine for a couple of hours each day or what? Its not as if the Algarve is anything special anyway and as for the Costas! 

Maybe someone can explain what the appeal is. From the comments in that last link Grizzly it sounds some of the locals are pretty fed up with it all and I cant say I blame them.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

barryd said:


> Its not as if the Algarve is anything special anyway and as for the Costas!


Agree about the Costas (mostly) but not about the Algarve - some great places there IMHO!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

peribro said:


> Agree about the Costas (mostly) but not about the Algarve - some great places there IMHO!


Yes parts of it are ok. I used to go to Vale do Lobo occasionally in a Villa and have been up and down the entire stretch a few times. As coastal resort stretches go its definitely better than the Costas but there are hundreds of better places in Europe IMO.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Winter Barry ! When you get old and creaky you want some warmth and the tonic of blue skies and winter sunshine . Wonderful as Germany, France, Italy, Greece etc are they can' t provide that as reliably as southern Spain and Portugal in winter.

Both countries are overrun in winter with motorhomers and are responding in different ways. Spain seem to be encouraging local entrepreneurs to open motorhome parks while the Portuguese are shilly shallying and seem to favour the campsite route. The national chain however seem to be losing the plot. We spent one night, under protest as everywhere else was packed, at the Quartiera Orbitur this January and it was awful. We dropped in to look at the Albufeira Orbitur next day and that was marginally worse and looked in places like a shanty town. We walked round and left, not even finding somewhere we would stop for a night.

Edit t add

http://theportugalnews.com/news/campsites-demand-end-to-illegal-motorhoming/41641


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

True G.
Many campgrounds in towns resemble packed car parks with cheek by jowl residents. But there are plenty others, smaller and outside the main towns.
The one just as you leave Albufeira going north is very spacious and friends said it was quiet. There seemed plenty of space in the Armaco de Pera one. 
A nice but small one in Gale was always full but there is a holding area to get in the queue.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> Winter Barry ! When you get old and creaky you want some warmth and the tonic of blue skies and winter sunshine . Wonderful as Germany, France, Italy, Greece etc are they can' t provide that as reliably as southern Spain and Portugal in winter.
> 
> Both countries are overrun in winter with motorhomers and are responding in different ways. Spain seem to be encouraging local entrepreneurs to open motorhome parks while the Portuguese are shilly shallying and seem to favour the campsite route. The national chain however seem to be losing the plot. We spent one night, under protest as everywhere else was packed, at the Quartiera Orbitur this January and it was awful. We dropped in to look at the Albufeira Orbitur next day and that was marginally worse and looked in places like a shanty town. We walked round and left, not even finding somewhere we would stop for a night.
> 
> ...


Yes I get the theory of finding a bit of winter Sun but from what I gather its not exactly guaranteed anyway. I just dont see why anyone would want to endure that kind of motorhoming in the hope of a bit of luke warm weather, doesnt sound like fun to me and they are doing us all no favours really in behaving like that. It would probably be cheaper and warmer to go and live in the Canaries or India for three months.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> Yes I get the theory of finding a bit of winter Sun but from what I gather its not exactly guaranteed anyway. I just dont see why anyone would want to endure that kind of motorhoming in the hope of a bit of luke warm weather, doesnt sound like fun to me and they are doing us all no favours really in behaving like that. It would probably be cheaper and warmer to go and live in the Canaries or India for three months.


Just popping off to the Canaries or India Barry might get you guaranteed warmer temps but even on the few cold weeks we had in The Algarve, we were always 12 to 14c warmer than southern UK and Normandy.
Plus of course you will have to carry everything in a suitcase. Not always practical for an extended stay unless money is no object.
I'm not trying to 'sell' Portugal but defend the choice.

Ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

peribro said:


> Last time we were in the Algarve and I saw some of the motorhome "encampments", I remember asking myself what the difference is between that and traveller sites in the UK. Apart from the apparent lack of mess, not a lot.


ah..but were all the local driveways recently tarmaced...or trees pruned?

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Yes I get the theory of finding a bit of winter Sun but from what I gather its not exactly guaranteed anyway. I just dont see why anyone would want to endure that kind of motorhoming in the hope of a bit of luke warm weather, doesnt sound like fun to me and *they are doing us all no favours really in behaving like that*. It would probably be cheaper and warmer to go and live in the Canaries or India for three months.


What a pessimist Barry! Look on the optimistic side - they are concentrating 180,000 MHs where we know where they are, and relieving pressure on the places where you and I like to go:wink2::laugh:

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Just popping off to the Canaries or India Barry might get you guaranteed warmer temps but even on the few cold weeks we had in The Algarve, we were always 12 to 14c warmer than southern UK and Normandy.
> Plus of course you will have to carry everything in a suitcase. *Not always practical for an extended stay unless money is no object*.
> I'm not trying to 'sell' Portugal but defend the choice.
> 
> Ray.


Not really. Canaries in my experience is pretty much guaranteed to be shorts and T shirts weather and it doesnt get cold on a night either and India will be 30c every day! All you need is a few pairs of shorts and flip flops. Works for Gandhi (Sorry Geriatrickbackpacker). Im not knocking peoples choices but it seems a hell of a miserable situation to put yourself in for the chance of warm(ish) weather. I would rather stick pins in my eyes than fight for a bit of wasteland on the Algarve. I can see the appeal of an apartment though with a car. We have done exactly that in Tenerife and it probably worked out no more expensive than taking the van to Portugal.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> What a pessimist Barry! Look on the optimistic side - they are concentrating 180,000 MHs where we know where they are, and relieving pressure on the places where you and I like to go:wink2::laugh:
> 
> Geoff


So..do tell us where you and Barry like to go in winter ? Please could you encourage people to go to Spain in spring and autumn and leave the rest of Europe free for me and OH ?

( This year we managed very well to avoid poor weather; we were basking in the western Algarve sun when they had snow in southern Spain and then to Spain when it got warmer there. Unlike normal trips we had no snow in Madrid or further north, Seville was too hot and even Aranjuez did not have frost in the morning. Two years ago at Haro they had several metres of snow and this year was warm and sunny - until we left when it snowed. It's been a funny year weatherwise. If we don't get rain here soon our garden will turn into a desert. )


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Grizzly said:


> So..do tell us where you and Barry like to go in winter ? Please could you encourage people to go to Spain in spring and autumn and leave the rest of Europe free for me and OH ?


Basia and I have not used the MH in winter, because of lack of time, so we have flown to the Canaries for the last 3 winters. However when we are more 'time-free' I would have thought that somewhere not far inland from the Algarve cannot have a very different climate as long as one is low down. Alternativly parts of the sothern Spanish coast is a bit more protected by the mountains from the wetter weather.

But I would also be happy to pitch in Andorra for skiing, knowing that one is not far from warmer climes when one fancies it.

However from what I read the MH population in Algarve probably increases beyond 180,000 outside the winter period. We have never had a problem finding almost empty or half-empty Aires in France in July.

Geoff


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Guess where we were heading off for September and October 

My wife has just read this and it has put her right off

We went to Portugal about 20 years ago in a pop top vw camper via calais and the green coast of Spain, had a lovely time especially the picos de europa,until we got to the Algarve ( it was in school holidays) it was choc a block and was like Dorset little roads leading down to the beach with no where to park. Didn't stay ond moved on back up through Spain via Gibralter and back to Calais.

In September last year we did a trip to Spain by car and hotels and popped into Portugal and stayed in Corvilha near the serra da estrela fantastic had a wonderfull time and a great drive through the mountains and valleys.

Maybe we will still go but ignore the coast

Ian


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> So..do tell us where you and Barry like to go in winter ? Please could you encourage people to go to Spain in spring and autumn and leave the rest of Europe free for me and OH ?
> 
> ( This year we managed very well to avoid poor weather; we were basking in the western Algarve sun when they had snow in southern Spain and then to Spain when it got warmer there. Unlike normal trips we had no snow in Madrid or further north, Seville was too hot and even Aranjuez did not have frost in the morning. Two years ago at Haro they had several metres of snow and this year was warm and sunny - until we left when it snowed. It's been a funny year weatherwise. If we don't get rain here soon our garden will turn into a desert. )


I've done the canaries in winter a few times but not in the van. If you can choose when you go and more importantly when you fly I doubt a couple of months there would be much different cost wise and proper warm weather. I do fancy spending an entire winter in India though which sounds bonkers.

In the van we have tended to tour in the UK in winter. Did the isle of whight one year and then all long the south coast as far as lands end, done the lakes a few times as well. Can be a challange in snow and we've had lots of it but the van is always warm as you will know and it can be stunning that time of year. If I wa heading into mainland Europe for winter id probably not bother trying to find sunshine. We considered Brittany and have been there in late November and it was fantastic. Place to ourselves. I might try the Alps as well.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

You don't have to get very far inland before it gets noticeably cooler Geoff and northern Spain can be wet, even in winter.

We're not there for the heat but, not being in a cold, damp and gloomy country like UK can be in winter, gives us the chance to walk, cycle, explore, sightsee, research the history of an area or period, follow the path of famous historical figures, eat and cook well and interestingly with ingredients that are new to us, meet interesting people and try to speak to them in their own language and so much more.

I'm not sure we are ready- yet- for 3 months in one place but we do have a happy medium in winter where we potter from place to place staying 1-3 weeks if somewhere takes our fancy and hiring a car to get to know the area better. We're too old to do moving on each day over an extended period and not old enough to stay in one place. We like our own bed and things about us and we don't like being constrained by time so being able to bumble with no airline or ferry dates to matter suits us fine. This is what makes a motorhome such a good thing; it's a hotel on wheels. 

Keeps Alzheimer's at bay and saves another couple of oldies being a burden on the NHS perhaps- ? 

To go back to the original thread; campsites, aires and camperstops along the coast are busy and we dislike being shoe-horned in. We dislike even more arriving to find a fine view spoilt by wall-to-wall " wild camping "vans and to find the carefully guarded littoral and dunes littered and trodden on by people who can't even be bothered to walk to the nearest boardwalk.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

This does it for me, not more than 25 km from Albufeira.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

All this talk about weather and crowded sites........well.....stay on the coast and you will have problems. Police do move you on, but you've only got to go 2 or 3 k inland and there's no-one.!! 
Further inland and higher , into Alentejo , and you might get frost and snow.
We had snow this winter! It lasted 10 minutes and the local junior school took all the kids outside 'cos non-one had seen any for 60 years.
It can get cold (cool?) but we left southern France 2 years ago because I was regularly recording temps of -17 for WEEKS ON END from Nov thru Feb. We started coming here in the van for Dec and Jan and have NEVER had a bad winter. Had a bad Xmas a few year ago and had a bad few days here and there, and had a few bad storms, but it isn't the persistent drizzle and grey and cold of the UK. They boast 300 sunny days a year here and I believe them.
Avoid July and Aug and even the coast can be pleasant if you like that sort of thing. Low season and it can be idyllic. I can even walk the dogs on the beach and see no-one!!
And cheap. I have more than halved my weekly beer and wine bill since moving from France....makes a difference on a pension. My local bar charges 1 euro for a 33 cl beer !! That would have been , at least 2.5 in France. More in a tourist bar!
We don't regret one minute leaving France for Portugal. Love it here! Be even better if there was just SOME live music.
Garcia


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Garcia said:


> Be even better if there was just SOME live music.
> Garcia


And they spoke Spanish ! Written Portuguese we can just about manage. Spoken we haven' t even made a dent in. Still people have a good laugh when we try so we do spread a little happiness, even if we do finish up with a loaf of bread when we asked for a carrier bag.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

Grizzly said:


> And they spoke Spanish ! Written Portuguese we can just about manage. Spoken we haven' t even made a dent in. Still people have a good laugh when we try so we do spread a little happiness, even if we do finish up with a loaf of bread when we asked for a carrier bag.


They say you don't need to speak Portuguese here and that is probably true. A little certainly helps with bureaucracy, but not necessary. However me and the wife are doing lessons. How else can you pass the time of day in a bar , and even if they speak English, I think it's rude to just assume, and it's good to try....keeps the Altzheimers away...!!
But youngsters here ALL seem to speak English...they follow the football and the pop music and the internet......
Garcia


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Garcia said:


> , and even if they speak English, I think it's rude to just assume,
> Garcia


Couldn't agree more. it makes me cringe to see English people not even learning the basic " "hello" "goodbye" " please" and "thank you" in any language.

( We did wonder, when a young man in Lagos said " obrigad" to us whether it was his Portuguese version of gender correctness but later found out that on the Algarve virtually the end of every word is shortened. Presumably, in order to speak Portuguese you have to have settled firmly on whichever gender you wish to be known as and can't be gender neutral ?!))


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

I don't think I ever really got to grips with gender and words in French. Never seemed to me to be any logic, and even if you said a la instead of a le they understood......
It is more difficult here in Portugal, but they do still understand......
I know in France it is pronunciation that can be critical. I spent years ordering the wife a glas of white wind in the bar....( verre de VENT Blanc, when it should be verre de VIN blanc !!!!)
Garcia


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

As Garcia says there is a whole lot more to the Algarve than the coastal resort stretch, have a look at the Costa Vincentina natural park on the west coast, stunning scenery.

In the East drive up the Guadiana to Alcoutim and beyond, admittedly not the Algarve after Alcoutim but relatively empty and beautiful scenery.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...80e2652e12910e45!8m2!3d37.0179538!4d-7.930834


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

And if cross to Spain at Alcoutim...you can come back by the ZIP WIRE. !!!!!!
Awesome trip.....the only zip wire between two countries.
Good curry house in Alcoutim too....!
Garcia


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Al42 said:


> As Garcia says there is a whole lot more to the Algarve than the coastal resort stretch, have a look at the Costa Vincentina natural park on the west coast, stunning scenery.
> 
> ]


Several years ago we had a 3 month stretch over winter, in Portugal and thoroughly explored the rest of the country and main towns and cities from top to bottom and all sides. We meant to go back to Lisbon this time for a longer look but only got to the borders at the top of the Costa Vincentina- the Alantejo border, not right up to Lisbon as we intended. We had what the Guardian called one of the top 10 beaches in the world to ourselves too ( not camping there...)

Have to admit we're more into history and architecture than scenery so tend to stick to towns and cities but our theme for this holiday was basically Explorers and the New World so we could not miss Sagres etc. Much prefer the western end of the Algarve to the eastern end however. We spent some time in the east 2 years ago and were not over-impressed.

Obrigada !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Garcia said:


> *All this talk about weather and crowded sites........well.....stay on the coast and you will have problems. Police do move you on, but you've only got to go 2 or 3 k inland and there's no-one.!! *
> Further inland and higher , into Alentejo , and you might get frost and snow.
> We had snow this winter! It lasted 10 minutes and the local junior school took all the kids outside 'cos non-one had seen any for 60 years.
> It can get cold (cool?) but we left southern France 2 years ago because I was regularly recording temps of -17 for WEEKS ON END from Nov thru Feb. We started coming here in the van for Dec and Jan and have NEVER had a bad winter. Had a bad Xmas a few year ago and had a bad few days here and there, and had a few bad storms, but it isn't the persistent drizzle and grey and cold of the UK. They boast 300 sunny days a year here and I believe them.
> ...


I dont understand the obsession with being right on the coast. Back in November 2015 we were in the Costa Brava in Northern Spain and it was lovely but we considered going further south but all the aires and wild spots we could find online both in Southern Spain and Portugal were right on the coast and from what I could gather filling up rapidly to form the kind of shanty town cheek to jowl motorhome cities we have discussed. I couldnt find anything a few miles inland (online at least). That would have appealed to us more as we have a scooter and prefer to be away from the madding crowds. It just didnt seem worth a lengthy drive to me so we gave it a swerve. I Would like to see more of Spain and certainly more of Portugal (away from the Algarve) as your Portugal sounds right up my alley. I would want to know there were some good options to park the van though.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> I dont understand the obsession with being right on the coast. Back in November 2015 we were in the Costa Brava in Northern Spain and it was lovely but we considered going further south but all the aires and wild spots we could find online both in Southern Spain and Portugal were right on the coast and from what I could gather filling up rapidly to form the kind of shanty town cheek to jowl motorhome cities we have discussed. I couldnt find anything a few miles inland (online at least). That would have appealed to us more as we have a scooter and prefer to be away from the madding crowds. It just didnt seem worth a lengthy drive to me so we gave it a swerve. I Would like to see more of Spain and certainly more of Portugal (away from the Algarve) as your Portugal sounds right up my alley. I would want to know there were some good options to park the van though.


On our first visit to Portugal we had the same concerns about finding places to stop, but we were worrying needlessly. There are plenty of Aires and they can be as good as those in France.
What we did in the first instance was to go online and book into an informal campsite, like an aire with knobs on. Get to know a few of the Dutch campers, they are a good source of information.
There is a Spain/Portugal Aires guide but mostly we use the Dutch Camper Contact book.
At the moment we are in the Algarve, but not as you would know it. It's the Camperstop Messines which is a bit misleading as it's 5km away from the town in the country side. Lots of walks, cycling etc right from the site, great owners, no kids and fireplace for evening get together . So we have all the advantage of the warm (even hot today) but none of the disadvantages of the coastal resorts. Well worth a visit and very comfortable with an Intermarché, Autogas etc all within 10km.

PS. Prices start at €6 for one night and reducing to €4 for longer stays.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> On our first visit to Portugal we had the same concerns about finding places to stop, but we were worrying needlessly. There are plenty of Aires and they can be as good as those in France.
> What we did in the first instance was to go online and book into an informal campsite, like an aire with knobs on. Get to know a few of the Dutch campers, they are a good source of information.
> There is a Spain/Portugal Aires guide but mostly we use the Dutch Camper Contact book.
> At the moment we are in the Algarve, but not as you would know it. It's the Camperstop Messines which is a bit misleading as it's 5km away from the town in the country side. Lots of walks, cycling etc right from the site, great owners, no kids and fireplace for evening get together . So we have all the advantage of the warm (even hot today) but none of the disadvantages of the coastal resorts. Well worth a visit and very comfortable with an Intermarché, Autogas etc all within 10km.
> ...


Is this it? http://camperstopmessines.wixsite.com/camperstopmessines/gallery

Now your talking! Looks ideal. Cheap as chips as well especially if you stay long term. I would like to get around to doing Portugal really, the interior sounds very interesting.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Spacerunner said:


> On our first visit to Portugal we had the same concerns about finding places to stop, but we were worrying needlessly. There are plenty of Aires and they can be as good as those in France.
> What we did in the first instance was to go online and book into an informal campsite, like an aire with knobs on. Get to know a few of the Dutch campers, they are a good source of information.
> There is a Spain/Portugal Aires guide but mostly we use the Dutch Camper Contact book.
> At the moment we are in the Algarve, but not as you would know it. It's the Camperstop Messines which is a bit misleading as it's 5km away from the town in the country side. Lots of walks, cycling etc right from the site, great owners, no kids and fireplace for evening get together . So we have all the advantage of the warm (even hot today) but none of the disadvantages of the coastal resorts. Well worth a visit and very comfortable with an Intermarché, Autogas etc all within 10km.
> ...


Thanks Spacerunner and Barry. Sounds and looks excellent - just a pity you told the Leffe-fuelled Rock Star about it as I hate loud rock music on a Saturday night.:surprise::laugh: But maybe if Michelle is within hearing - and slapping - distance it could be controlled:laugh:

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm planning another 6 to 8 weeks again on the Algarve next Jan to Mar 2018. And yes Geoff peace and quiet would be my preference.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well Garcia was saying he wants more live Music in Portugal. Be careful what you wish for huh?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Well Garcia was saying he wants more live Music in Portugal. Be careful what you wish for huh?


Tw*t :laugh:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I do wish people (like Barry) who haven't give Spain a chance would stop dissing it.

Yes, the costas are generally touristy and in the main I dislike them, though there are nice, unspoiled bits, but a little way inland Spain is beautiful. It's a huge country. Some locals on the coast may be a bit jaded due to the attitudes of tourists but if you make an effort with the language that evaporates. The people inland are great, helpful and welcoming.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> I do wish people (like Barry) who haven't give Spain a chance would stop dissing it.
> 
> Yes, the costas are generally touristy and in the main I dislike them, though there are nice, unspoiled bits, but a little way inland Spain is beautiful. It's a huge country. Some locals on the coast may be a bit jaded due to the attitudes of tourists but if you make an effort with the language that evaporates. The people inland are great, helpful and welcoming.


Whats up with you this afternoon, did you not read my posts or something? I never dissed Spain or Portugal as a whole in fact I said the Costa Brava and inland around that area was lovely. I also said I wanted to explore Portugal and that goes for more of Spain as well but The Costas IMO are grim and I include the likes of Marbella and Puerto Banús in that statement and I have been along the entire stretch several times. Parts of the Algarve IMO is ok if you like posh villas, Golf and bumping into second rate footballers and soap stars in Vale Do Lobo, hardly the real Portugal.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

erneboy said:


> I do wish people (like Barry) who haven't give Spain a chance would stop dissing it.


Some people are so "into" France that anything else is cr*p.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> Is this it? http://camperstopmessines.wixsite.com/camperstopmessines/gallery
> 
> Now your talking! Looks ideal. Cheap as chips as well especially if you stay long term. I would like to get around to doing Portugal really, the interior sounds very interesting.


Yes that's the very same .
This is my view at this very moment. Only ten units on site. In the distance I can hear the local goat herder on its way through.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> Thanks Spacerunner and Barry. Sounds and looks excellent - just a pity you told the Leffe-fuelled Rock Star about it as I hate loud rock music on a Saturday night.:surprise::laugh: But maybe if Michelle is within hearing - and slapping - distance it could be controlled:laugh:
> 
> Geoff


Not to worry, there are plenty of hills we could exile him to if he felt a yodelling session coming on.
Oh, and the mobile fruit and veg guy also sells local brewed vinho tinto.
Some of the things I do to fill in the time on a long stay.
Make my own walking staff from the local eucalyptus wood.
Construct a native American flute from river bank reed.
Attempt to trap crayfish in the river...Caught a terrapin instead and gave it up as a bad idea!

It's so quiet hear that for the first time in many years I can actually hear birdsong, and we are lulled to sleep most nights by a nightingale version of duelling banjos.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

You don't have to go too far to see rural Portugal. This was an old 'herder' and three dogs with hundreds of sheep and goats 1km. from the sea between Armaco de Pera and Gale.
Right beside the bird sanctuary..................................... Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

peribro said:


> Some people are so "into" France that anything else is cr*p.


You can shurrup an all! Everyone knows you only go as far as Skegness for your holidays. Thats where you were telling everyone to go to on the Brexit thread!

Anyway its not true about being "So into France", Hank has been all over Europe (well the good bits) but lets face it nowhere else sells decent cheese. The Germans and Austrians almost make up for it by having such a fantastic range of beer and the Italians do to some extent by just being bonkers but Im not sure you can beat France really.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I am sure you can.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

barryd said:


> Anyway its not true about being "So into France", Hank has been all over Europe (well the good bits) but lets face it nowhere else sells decent cheese. The Germans and Austrians almost make up for it by having such a fantastic range of beer and the Italians do to some extent by just being bonkers but Im not sure you can beat France really.


Really starting to get into Portuguese cheese, particularly goat or goat / sheep blends. Normally I might agree about the French stuff, though I always had a passion for introducing the French to regional U.K. cheeses, which mostly they loved when they tasted them, but were amazed by. They never thought of the Uk as a cheese nation. Always been very disappointed with Spanish cheeses tho.!
I remember once setting some of my post grad students ( mixed nationality business students!) a project to produce a marketing plan for UK cheeses in France. They all said it couldn't be done !! Nobody in Franc would buy it!
Generally true...the French do like their own stuff, even down to cars, they all drive Renaults and the like ....

There seems to be no tradition here in Portugal for regional or craft beers. The generic varieties...Sagres and Super Bock....are pretty ordinary really, but the wines!!!! You can pay serious money for Douro, but the Alentejo produces some stunners at silly money!
Garcia


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Don't know anything about wines whichever country they come from, but I do know that the port from a Portugal Lidl is so much better than the identical labelled bottle from a UK Lidl.
At the moment we're into G+TS as it's hot. So a bottle of cheap gin €5.99 and own brand tonic from Continente makes cheap sundowners.
We found the Portuguese cheese was disappointing too. We were expecting good things but after trying loads we've fjust a couple of varietthat we like.
We'll try and arrange to be in Dieppe on a Saturday to stock up with French cheese to take home.


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