# French electric



## jaxnbrian (Jan 31, 2010)

Sorry folks, I've looked but unable to find the answer!

We are taking our newly acquired Bessacarr E520 to France in June.
Will my mains work with their system? The site has a 10amp ehu

Do I need to invest in a polarity tester?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

We have had two outings so far with no major problems.

We just love this motor homing thing!


Brian & Jackie


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

jaxnbrian said:


> Sorry folks, I've looked but unable to find the answer!
> 
> We are taking our newly acquired Bessacarr E520 to France in June.
> Will my mains work with their system? The site has a 10amp ehu
> ...


YES!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*YES*

The Fridge PCB/Module Electronic Board on Dometic Appliances DO NOT Like Reverse Polarity, is that a plan?

There are all sorts of ways of Correcting your polarity.

For me the easiest, cheapest way is this.

Buy a Martindale or similar Polarity Tester.
When you arrive on-site shut everything Electrical Off.
Plug in EHU
Plug in Polarity Tester to a Socket
Check Polarity
If it is reversed, correct it. 
The easy way to do this is to buy a Blue 16Amp EHU Plug with twist off cap and clip in connecters. You simply unscrew, swap LIVE/NUETRAL over (Remembering to re-check next time you get to another site)

A Blue 16A Twist plug and Good Polatrity tester should cost a total of no more than £20. Expect to pay £150-£300 for a new Dometic Module.

Do not forget to check for good old Earth too!

TM


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Q We are taking our newly acquired Bessacarr E520 to France in June.
Will my mains work with their system? 
A YES You might need an adaptor for some older sites.

Q The site has a 10amp ehu.
A Good, electric heating as well then!

Q Do I need to invest in a polarity tester?
A Providing your van like most others has an RCD then NO


C.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi;

A couple of FAQ's that might help clear the mist, its all mumbo jumbo or elecktrickery to me as well  ...

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-69029-electric-hookup-ehu.html

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-70164-polarity-testing-and-changeover-cables.html

Pete


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Bad Advice*



CliveMott said:


> Q We are taking our newly acquired Bessacarr E520 to France in June.
> Will my mains work with their system?
> A YES You might need an adaptor for some older sites.
> 
> ...


You Know Clive, I often Praise You, but part of the above is just bad, wrong advice.

TM


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

*Re: YES*



teemyob said:


> The Fridge PCB/Module Electronic Board on Dometic Appliances DO NOT Like Reverse Polarity, is that a plan?
> TM


The appliances care not a jot!

It's a.c. so the term 'reverse polarity' is a misnomer. What is actually meant by the common usage of this term is that it is the 'neutral' line that is switched (opened) and not the 'live' line.

Consequently, the appliances care not a jot.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Yep, +1 on that Bigtwin


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I agree with that.

It is *not* polarity as in DC +ve & -ve

There is no simple one word to describe it.

How about:

UK system whereby the neutral is tied to earth potential compared with the €U system whereby the neutral is not necessarily tied to earth potential and indeed may well be reversed in the outlet for the live line - take a deep breath!

The best I have come up with is *polarisation*, just to make some sort of distinction.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: YES*



bigtwin said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > The Fridge PCB/Module Electronic Board on Dometic Appliances DO NOT Like Reverse Polarity, is that a plan?
> ...


I disagree.

Whilst, "Most" appliances are not affected by reverse polarity or rather "not polarity dependent". Dometic Modules seem to suffer or more duffer as a result of being incorrrctly connected to the mains supply.

When I questioned Clives comments it was not in relation to this!.
TM


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Polorisation*



pippin said:


> I agree with that.
> 
> It is *not* polarity as in DC +ve & -ve
> 
> ...


See last post

TM


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

My French built MH has a RCBO, which is a residual circuit breaker with over current protection. This is a combined MCB and RCD.
In the event of a fault both legs of the supply are disconnected.
AC equipment does not care if the Live and Neutral are reversed.

I spent 3 years in Saudi Arabia where the 'polarity' of supply was never consistent and involved 110/240v step up transformers therefore it was 50/50 which leg of the supply was Live or Neutral.

The main concern with UK users is that the switches and MCB's are located in the Live leg of the supply. If the polarity is reversed it is perceived by some people to be a risk as the Neutral willl be switched and protected by the MCB's and not the live.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*+1*



averhamdave said:


> Yep, +1 on that Bigtwin


Okay, +1, make it +2 in certain respects and most appliances.

BUT NOT in the case of earth seeking!

Supposing you "swith off" as opposed to disconnecting your mains and assume all is good. Then you dip your screwdriver into some faulty electrics to find out what is wrong.

What is wrong is that you have not disconected your Live but your Nuetral and any part of your annatomy may then touching earth (which is?)!

See You!


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

*Re: YES*



teemyob said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Whilst, "Most" appliances are not affected by reverse polarity or rather "not polarity dependent". Dometic Modules seem to suffer or more duffer as a result of being incorrrctly connected to the mains supply.
> 
> ...


If you can explain the reason why you believe that Dometic Modules suffer from this, I'd be receptive to your theory if there is a logical reason for this, otherwise I'd have to assume that it was 'coincidence' and therefore stick with my original analysis.

I'm not saying that it's not possible, I just dont understand why that would be the case.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: YES*



bigtwin said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree.
> ...


Modules on Dometic appliances have been reported to fail by owners/users/repairers as a result of reversed polarity.

Quite a 'coincidence' at such a high replacement cost!

jaxnbrian, buy a Polarity tester.

:wink: TM


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

To be definitive here is a more comprehensive answer to my previous simple YES or NO.

If you have a modern motorhome it will be equipped with an earth leakage current detecting main circuit breaker. (RCD) These breakers do this by accurately comparing the current flowing in the NEUTRAL wire with that flowing in the LIVE wire. If these currents are not almost identical (because some has flowed elsewhere - like via earth back to the transformer) then the trip will operate disconnecting both LIVE and NEUTRAL connections. 

If you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault and the Mains hookup is connected correctly then the earth leakage trip will operate when you switch on that appliances ON/OFF switch. 

If the mains hookup is connected with reverse polarity and you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault then the trip will operate as soon as you connect your hookup irrespective of the appliances ON/OFF switch (unless its double pole switching). 

If you have an OVERLOAD situation then the circuit breaker supplying the circuit which has the overload will open irrespective of supply polarity. If this overload is because of an earth fault then the earth leakage trip will operate anyway. 

So, I would not worry about reverse polarity unduly as faults will get picked up one way or another. Quite possibly sooner if the polarity is reversed!.

But what is important is good continuity between your Motorhome chassis and real earth via the earth wiring to and through the hookup. Who checks this?

But, 
The latest Autotrails, Autocruise, Kontiki, Bessacar and Timberland motorhomes include an indicator lamp to warn of reversed mains polarity. They can get confused in places like Norway where the substation earthing is not necessarily the same as ours, or even the same as ours reversed. But the RCD will still work and provide total isolation.

C.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Clive. If we have one of the models listed at the end of your post and the red indicator lights up suggesting reverse polarity will the relevant circuit trip. Or can you use the motorhome safely with reverse polarity as indicated in an earlier post (not yours).


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Gelathae,

You can use it quite safely, if you want and the red light appears in the sargent box, you could make a reverse (cross over) connection device.

In effect you will have a short cable, connect one end correctly.

Live = Live
Neutral = Neutral
Earth = Earth

And the other end

Live = Neutral
Neutral = Live
Earth = Earth

When the red light comes on, insert the reverse cable (Cross over) and then plug your normal cable into that.

Personally, I don't


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

The answer as to what is safe and what is not must be your decision. I cannot make that decision for you. For me, providing the earth connection is good and the van has a double pole switching RCD then I would have no worries. If the original question was about having a device that checked the integrety of the earth system then I would have said YES as that is far more useful.

Interestingly in some parts of Norway they have no earth bonding at all, in other parts they have the earth bonding mid way between Live and Neutral and in most parts its similar to ours. The reverse polarity indicating lamps on UK vans are designed for UK or similar systems and cannot be relied on in alternative electrical environments.

My previous (published) comprehensive answer says about all there is to say!

C.


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## darach (Dec 15, 2006)

Hi, I do check for reverse polarity on sites and have a plug with the different lights to show if there is an earth fault or a polarity fault. When in France in the winter we stayed outside a house for a week and hooked up to the house. All the plug sockets showed reverse polarity and I do have a changeover cable. When connected it still showed reverse polarity, how is this possible? We had no option but to plug straight in to the socket as we were using the electric for heating. Everything worked perfect for the whole week and everything is still OK since.
I have used the change over cable before and after and it has always worked as it should.
Derek


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Y'know what I mean arry!


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## tattytony (Jun 29, 2009)

I as a complete  (not knowing person) have no idea what this is all about and am now worried :x about using hook up abroad as I only have the std cable, being a novice never even checked the reverse polarity light to see if it was lit   

What should I do :?: 

What should I get :?: 

I am very worried about this and hoping that you knowledgable people will put me right :wink: 

I will be at Shepton tomorrow so will I need to buy different cables :?: 

Thought I was doing the foreign stuff ok till I saw this thread


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

tattytony said:


> I will be at Shepton tomorrow so will I need to buy different cables :?:
> 
> Thought I was doing the foreign stuff ok till I saw this thread


I will be at Shepton tomorrow and will be quite happy to show you what you need. rayc


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## tattytony (Jun 29, 2009)

I will come to MHF area at a point and make myself know thanks rayc :wink:


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

*Re: +1*



teemyob said:


> Supposing you "swith off" as opposed to disconnecting your mains and assume all is good. Then you dip your screwdriver into some faulty electrics to find out what is wrong.
> 
> What is wrong is that you have not disconected your Live but your Nuetral and any part of your annatomy may then touching earth (which is?)!
> 
> See You!


Agreed - this is the real issue and it would be foolish to be fault finding without ascertaining exactly what you're dealing with.

In normal operation the appliance should operate normally (and safely) and 'reverse polarity' is of little concern (to me anyway).

janxbrian - Clive's post(s) should put your mind at rest. However, if you feel compelled to have a 'crossover' lead as described by others - go for it.


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