# Vaccinations for EU trip.



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I had an appointment with a travel specialist in Boots today re vaccination requirements. The countries I enquired about were:
Netherlands
Germany
Poland
Czech Republic?? 
Lithuania
Latvia
Estonia
Russia (St Petersburg) 

Recommendations (using a computer program) are:

1. HepA and HepB (not sure if I have immunity there - I had jaundice aged 12)
2. Rabies (high risk in Poland, Lithuania and Russia apparently) 
3. Tick-borne Encephalitis, TBE
4. MMR - measles, mumps, rubella (I've had measles n rubella, not sure about mumps) 
5. DTP - Diphtheria, tetanus, polio. I had diphtheria as a child, had tetanus jab about 10yrs ago and polio in 1996 (tho maybe that should be TB jab - when my BIL's TB returned)

This seems like overkill to me and I'd be inclined to go for a tetanus booster and MAYBE the TBE? 

Any thoughts on the matter?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

My thoughts are its Europe not the Congo. Dont bother with any of them. Dont think Ive ever had a vaccination for anywhere and look at me, Im normal! :shocked!:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh dear Barry - maybe I should have them all!!!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Rabies buys you 24 hours only and has an active life of only 3 months afaik.

The others are really not worth doing, unless you want to increase the Boot's profits.....

MMR was routinely given to us as kids so ask your GP's Secretary to check your records - it will probably be in your PAPER records which have not been digitised and that will take time to locate and check so ask nicely and be prepared to wait a week or two....

TBE is an unknown to me, I have never been advised to have it and am aware of ticks around but seek alternative info like the UK Gov website. I doubt that it would be recommended.....

Hep A and B and C and D and E ? is really only a risk if you are going to encounter them and I will not go into their likely sources on a public decent website.....

Have a read of this American website - the Yanks tend to be ultra cautious over such things.

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/prevention-15/vaccines/need-hepatitis-vaccines

The HSE has the following info re Hep B and I doubt that they would suggest that you need it...

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biosafety/blood-borne-viruses/hepatitis-b-vaccination.htm

For Hep A this NHS link makes clear reading ....... in simple terms avoid handling p o o ........

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hepatitis-a/

There is a combined Vaccine for A and B but nothing for the rest of the alphabet. They are all viral infections that result in similar effects such as liver problems or even failure.

That lot gives you something to think about if you want sleepless nights, but my simple advice would be don't bother reading any of the above or listening to Boot's....

Just enjoy your trip.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

I took my wife Up the Baltics last year and we didn't bother with any jabs. If you ask a specialist they are never going to say...... oh don't bother.

It's all about assessing the risks........................but of you are too cautious you wouldn't be going anyway

Let me know if you want any specific information.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Webby1 said:


> I took my wife Up the Baltics last year ..........


Ohhhh Missus!!!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Stay in France Jean.

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

**** , I’m done for

On immune suppressant drugs I prob can’t have any of them

When did those come into power ?

Can I travel to Europe ?

There you go

It was dangerous to belong to the EU >>:grin2::grin2::grin2::wink2:

Sandra


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I wonder what vaccinations will be recommended for travellers to that Third Country the UK .

Definitely all of the above plus smallpox 'cos the UK is one country with some in store " for research purposes" aka military uses.....

Diphtheria is on the increase in the UK according to medical reports as is TB....,

Obviously not a healthy place to go - as Ray said "stay in France 🇫🇷". 😊🤔😂😇🤣


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Rickets has made a come back in the UK as well.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks Dave (penquin) - I did follow your links (and have to say here that our jaundice was contracted at a swimming pool on holiday - phew!)

I think I might just enquire about the tetanus as I know I've outlived its usefulness.

MMR - I don't recall my Mum mentioning that Dave - maybe you're younger than I am. In fact, I'm sure you are!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> Rickets has made a come back in the UK as well.


But obesity will cause more problems to health and life.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> But obesity will cause more problems to health and life.
> 
> Ray.


You trying to be funny? :knob:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

When you "consult" someone they have to be careful to cover their professional back. If you worked in Boots and consulted them over the water cooler they would probably give you a different answer.

Might be worth running the answers you got by your GP. A GP would have a different take on "risk".

I am with you though, Jean, on the rabies. I read a travelogue by someone who was running/cycling round the world. When asked what scared them the most on their travels, the expected answer was bears or tigers but the actual answer was "the packs of dogs in Romania and Bulgaria that chased me"!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Oooopppss touchy eh? 

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

jiwawa said:


> Thanks Dave (penquin) - I did follow your links (and have to say here that our jaundice was contracted at a swimming pool on holiday - phew!)
> 
> I think I might just enquire about the tetanus as I know I've outlived its usefulness.
> 
> MMR - I don't recall my Mum mentioning that Dave - maybe you're younger than I am. In fact, I'm sure you are!


MMR is the combined vaccine from the 90's onwards from memory, previously it was given separately and the Rubella was rarely given. There used to be a deliberate policy of letting kids get infections from their peers , hence Rubella parties or Chicken Pox where young friends were exposed and got the infection, often in a weakened form, thereby developing immunity.

AFAIK you now only get three antitetanus jabs as that gives lifetime immunity, but since few of us know the dates you may get another IF NEEDED. Tetanus is found in soil particularly where horses have been kept, so any open wounds that might have been in contact with the soil or something that has been in the soil, eg rusty metal, may initiate a tetanus jab.

The rabies vaccine is a misnomer, it is NOT, but is a transfer of some preformed antibodies from horses that allows the exposure to rabies to be initially countered. BUT, it only gives you 24 hours more protection. It is recommended for eg Morocco or Algeria where decent medical care may be more than 24h away..... The antibodies have a short half life in your body of a few weeks..... The vaccination programme was developed by Louis Pasteur and the main change is the time span, now only a few injections rather than 30 at daily intervals if bitten.....

We have once seen a rabid dog - in France about 20 years ago and the behaviour made it stand out -a so,Italy dog, not interested in others so pack mentality not a problem but it was attacking anything and everything including inanimate objects. Once seen, never forgotten.

Fascinating topic and one that we should all be aware of, sadly many of the old fashioned unpleasant diseases like Ricketts, Diptheria, TB etc are more commonly found in recent immigrants particularly refugees and that applies throughout Europe.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Fascinating! Thank you.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jean


As you know we live in Poland and none of the 50 million Poles are vaccinated against Rabies. If bitten they get tested and treated, just like UK.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Actually I never knew that about the UK but it makes sense after what Dave said.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

barryd said:


> Rickets has made a come back in the UK as well.


Yep it has

Dare I say why ?

Well with two daughters who are health visitors I dare

It a cultural thing

Asian kids, particularly girls

Swathed in clothes , just faces exposed

We don't have enough sun for them to absorb Vit D

Neither do their mothers

Which may account for the fact my GP, in this area ,knowing I don't absorb Vit D from the sun according to my endocrinologist

And alberts consultant that notified him that alberts Vit D was low as is common in cancer patients

Said we could buy it ourselves

Which I do , but I wonder does all his Asian patients ?

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes, you date say why when it's medically factual. Why wouldn't you point out that exposure to light is essential to life?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Not to light

To the ray of the sun

We get the vast amount of Vit D from sunshine

Needed for calcium to be laid down in our Bones 

To prevent Rickets

And oesteoporisis in later life 

I’m about to have the Dexa test to check I’m not at risk to broken bones 

Because arthritis is putting me at risk of falls 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Gosh

I’m such a “know it all Ernest “

Nursing qualification ,qualified social worker , forget the degrees 

Working with the Asian people in my area for so many years 

Retired but with two daughters still working in my field 

But the sun and Vit D simple 

You didn’t realise that?

Forgive me a little gloat , as you seem to think me an uneducated idiot

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You missed that I agreed with you then?

I pay attention to the news https://adc.bmj.com/content/86/3/147

"Deprivational vitamin D deficiency in Asians living in the UK, whose origins are from India, Pakistan, or Bangladesh, was first reported nearly 30 years ago."

It's probably more a Radio 4 story than a breakfast TV one.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Yep I did 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I wouldn't mind betting that it will be fair skinned children, soon, too. How many do you see playing out in the street any more? How many even walk to school? The girls all seem to wear thick make up. Everyone seems to have a dairy allergy or is vegan by choice which is hard to turn into a balanced diet. All a huge worry for our NHS. There was a doctor on the radio who has written a book on modern nutrition who said, basically, that we all need to eat more greens, drink milk, eat meat in moderation etc. Our generation have known this for ever but the modern one seems to think it is all a load of old tosh!


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

patp said:


> I wouldn't mind betting that it will be fair skinned children, soon, too. How many do you see playing out in the street any more? How many even walk to school? The girls all seem to wear thick make up. Everyone seems to have a dairy allergy or is vegan by choice which is hard to turn into a balanced diet. All a huge worry for our NHS. There was a doctor on the radio who has written a book on modern nutrition who said, basically, that we all need to eat more greens, drink milk, eat meat in moderation etc. Our generation have known this for ever but the modern one seems to think it is all a load of old tosh!


Given all that Pat, I ask why Aldra has chosen to highlight and make a point of the illness growing within Asian families.

Do you think it is out of care and compassion.

She cannot resist any opportunity to have a go at the Asian community,their customs and their religion.Generally without regard to the nature of the thread.She buys her Vitamin D "but wonders if all the Asian mothers do the same".................well we know what they're like don't we.

I'm sure not all of them do.I'm sure she is factually correct that rickets is growing in certain communities.........well with 2 daughters as health visitors they must have a good insight into the families they work with.................what tales they must have to tell.

Because of family and friends I will always resist her constant snide comments.

I have admitted before that looking back I was definitely racist in my early life BUT I just did not realise it at the time.

Thankfully I have gained more self knowledge as I grew older and wiser.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well bouncy bunny

I’m glad you are older and wiser , I dread to think what you were like prior to becoming so wise 

Yep in our area cultural demands do require that girl children are completely covered summer and winter...fact We do not have sufficient levels of sunshine to absorb sufficient Vit D through small exposed areas of skin...fact 

Cultural requirements and religious beliefs do have impact on general health ...fact

Health workers need to be aware of how cultural requirements impact on health particularly when working with children...fact

And the use of sun beds Definately increases the chance of melonoma, as does overexposure to the sun 

My children are very professional they do not “tell tales”, they work in the same field of health as I previously worked in and I find your remark offensive but typical

Measles is making a comeback in those young adults whose parents did not take up the vaccine due to circulated fears Of autism ...fact

So you see heath workers need to be aware of many things including cultural requirements that impinge on general health 

Lack of Vit D, inability to lay down calcium in bones, essential in the growth stage of children .... lack of sunshine or very poor diet deficient in calcium .....result Rickets....fact 

And yep I do wonder if GPs expect everyone to buy Vit D, and if so why?, it’s not cheap if budgets are tight 

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

I do not deny your facts..........they are facts after all.

With the increases in so many diseases amongst children in UK(you mention measles) I simply ask why it is that you choose to highlight and refer to the 

one rising particularly amongst "the Asians"


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I didn’t bouncing bunny

It was in response to someone else’s post saying that rickets was making a comeback in Britain 

So you see I didn’t single it out at all

Neither was I in anyway stating other than facts 

The re-emergence of Measles it seems , is a middle class reaction to failing to have their children vaccinated , based it seems on unsubstantiated rumour 

Not that working class parents didn’t also fail in some cases to take up the measles vaccine , but the fact that it’s mostly young college / university students that are now contacting measles does seem to illustrate the point 

Although of course as students collected together in the same environment does facilitate the spread 

A nasty disease and not as some still think a mild childhood illness 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

barryd said:


> Rickets has made a come back in the UK as well.


There you go bouncing bunny

That's what I responded to

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Yes I know you responded to Barry. My issue is how you chose to respond.How about this

"Indeed Barry there is a growth in many so called childhood diseases.I am a retired health professional and have 2 daughters who still work in the field.We have seen how the health service has been decimated over the years of Tory austerity.
They have ever increasing caseloads and the struggle to provide proper care and information to the families that need it most.
Increasing poverty under the Tory rule has also led to more disease such as (insert fact of your choice) But I voted for more of it."

You still don't get it......the problem is what you choose to see...............you don't see rickets,rapists,terrorists.
The bit that immediately catches your attention is Asian.It pops up in almost every thread you respond to, be it about Christmas,vaccinations,house sales.Except being last.
It becomes an ingrained negative link like women drivers or stupid old people.

I always ask you to give it a rest, not only because I find it offensive but because it gives support and succour to the hard line racist bigots.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

May I add to your comment please;

"and reinforces the original thread title." ?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

You do talk a lot of rubbish bouncing bunny 

Your playing to your own personal agenda ,not mine 

I’m not discussing politics but responding to rise of rickets etc in this country 

Adds to hard line racist politics ??

Only in your little mind 

Mind you you seem hot on highlighting any comments which you interpreted as “Asian ”

Are you sure you are not fanning imaginary flames ? 

TB too is on the increase And I’ll leave that for you to research the reasons for that 

Perhaps we are at risk of catching that from the tories?

What do you think?

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Penquin said:


> May I add to your comment please;
> 
> "and reinforces the original thread title." ?


The original thread title

Well the answer is non

We are going from one EU country to another

Rabies?, as you say it's treatable if and only if you are bitten by a rabid animal

Which is rarer that being bitten by a nasty respondent on MHF

Much rarer in fact

All immunisations recommended for life in Britain remain the same for travel to the Eu

Measles , mumps whooping cough same risk as staying at home in Britain if you haven't been immunised

TB the same,

Melonoma however you are at risk if you don't take precautions in the sun

Risks that sun worshiping Brits are happy to risk

Don't, it will kill you

And if doesn't do that quickly it will mess up your life whilst it meanders around deciding

Tick born diseases well as yet we haven't enough information on which ticks and where

Ok bouncing bunny ?

And sadly you Dave

You should shun me if you really believe I'm racist

And bouncing bunny don't give me that **** that you are trying to reform me from your imaginary bigotry

I don't need reforming

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just a 'Public Safety' announcement Jean.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=4496312017082620



Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well italy is closing some areas

Austria is closing its borders to Italy

So is a trip to Europe on the cards ?

Will the corona virus define and close borders rather than EU

Sandra


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