# Split charge problems



## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Well, I've finally picked up the Rambler and sucessfully got back from Kent to Inverness.

However, when I stopped off at my mate's place at High Wycombe on the way back I found a problem. The leisure batteries were almost dead flat. Keeping in mind that the radio runs from the leisure batteries and had been on for 3 hours or so I immediately thought that they mustn't be charging on the move. A check of the voltage with the engine both running and off confirmed this.

How annoyed was I!!!! The dealer I bought it from had not spotted this. He is currently consulting with his auto electrician, but I thought I might get more sense here. Here is what I have found so far.

In the engine compartment there is a metal block (I assume a large relay/solenoid) with two large connection points. On to one of these terminals is connected a large battery cable which goes to the vehicle battery. On to the other is a large battery cable which goes back to the leisure batteries. Also connected to this block is a thin red wire which goes to a black plastic box which is screwed to a board marked 'delay' (or similar). This black box also has an earth wire, which is good, and a blue wire which goes somewhere else.

What I think assume I have here is a unit that serves two purposes. The large relay/solenoid connects the two batteries together when the small black box tells it to. That is probably when the blue wire has sufficient voltage applied to it (either from the signal output of the alternator, or from the main battery if it can sense the difference between battery voltage, 12v, and charging voltage, 14v) either from when the engine is running or the 'emergency start' button is pressed - educated guess, though.

This large solenoid/relay is never energised no matter what I do (engine running or 'emergency start' pressed). So perhaps either the relay/solenoid is knackered or the little black box is knackered.

Of course, that large relay/solenoid and black box could be just for the 'emergency start' and the split charging relay could be elsewhere. If that is the case, then the 'emergency start' still doesn't work.

As I can tell the only wire going from the leisure battery to the engine bay is the large battery cable (which is big enough to double up as the emergency start cable, charging cable and supply cable to the domestic circuits).

I'd be grateful for any advice regarding how I fix this (bloody annoying and basic!) fault as I have no wiring diagram for the vehicle. If it helps it is a 94 Holiday Rambler Endeavor on a Ford chassis.

Help!

Aside from that and a few bits of shoddy conversion work which I'm sorting out it's great!

Keith,

Sorry I couldn't pop in on my way north. The opportunity to collect the Rambler suddenly appeared and I had to dash down and dash back (via the east side of the country to pick up some stuff). I'll try to get to one of the meets soon though.

Cheers.

Paul


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Also, forgot to mention....

Thanks to Linda for the bits. I picked them up from the delivery address on the way back up north. Thanks for your help.

Cheers.

Paul


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## LC1962 (Oct 6, 2005)

Don't mention it Paul.
If you haven't already got your head round your charging problem, give James bell, he may be able to assist.
Cheers
Linda


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Thanks Linda, can you send me the best number to use please.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Paul
Glad you got home OK matey... Also glad to hear that the problems you have are only minor ones, we had a mountain to climb with ours (steering box knackered and power booster broken!!!! Jamie did help to sort us out though and was very helpful....
I will be interested to hear the outcome of this as we have exactly the same problem on Rocky :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## LC1962 (Oct 6, 2005)

Hi Paul
The workshop is 01608 812438 (but he's out this afternoon) or 07932 013682 before 2pm and after 5 today...dreaded dental appointment :roll:


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Paul,

When I got my RV - Winnebago Itasca - it was about 1 week before the internal charger failed.

A quick call to Linda and it turns out that there is a problem with the older chargers - non digital - where they have difficulty with our 50Hz as opposed to the 60Hz they are used to!

After a short time in the UK these chargers pack in. Mine is located under the fridge/freezer. Linda supplied at short notice a replacement unit, which when installed was quieter and has worked correctly ever since.

As I am not at home I cannot get my drawings out to find out if the vehicles alternator charging goes somehow through the same circuit. It could be the case as the charger most certainly had feed from the 12 V circuit.

If you get this before I have the chance to look or someone else either agrees or not with me, then the simple check would be to plug you RV into the mains and see what is coming out of the charger. To be totally sure it is a case of taking the batteries off and seeing what is then coming out.

Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs!

Hope that helps.

Regards

Chris


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Chris,

Thanks for that.

However, it is charging fine from the mains. It isn't charging from the alternator.

What I really need is a wiring diagram for the vehicle. Can anyone help??

Cheers.

Paul


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

I know nothing but I have always assumed that the engine did not charge the leisure batteries they were only charged through hook up, generator or, solar if fitted. The leisure batteries can supplement the main battery for starting purposes if it is low.
Perhaps the vehicle has been standing for a while and just needs to be plugged in to charge the leisure batteries? But then again I know nothing.


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

SuperK,

The first thing I thought when I read you post was "nah, they must be charged from the alternator - it would be bonkers not to". Then I thought "bugger - maybe that isn't the case.....".

I'd be grateful for thoughts from anyone else, but I'm reasonably sure the alternator should charge the leisure batts as the radio is powered from the leisure side and would flatten them on a long trip.

This also sparked another thought. If that is the case then perhaps the big relay is only for emergency start. When I pressed the button to see if it connected (expecting to hear a good relay clunk) and tested for a connection across the large relay/solenoid, nothing happened. However, the leisure batts at the time were down at 2V. Is it clever enough to know not to connect the two batteries together if the leisure batts are lower than the vehicle batt???

Perhaps all is not as it seems. Perhaps the emergency start will work now the leisure batts are charged....... Perhaps (as a follow on thought) there is no alternator charging........ If there isn't alternator charging it is easy enough to slap a smartcom in there so solve the issue.

Again grateful for you thoughts.

Thanks for that SuperK!

Cheers.

Paul


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

Just had a look at my manual (2000 HR Vacationer):
Batteries are charged in two ways:
1) When shore line is plugged in converter supplies power to 12volt DC circuits and charges house batteries.
2) Chassis charging system supplies power to house 12volt DC circuits when engine is running. Chassis charging system will continue to supply power to house system unless excessive loading prevents chassis system from keeping up with demand. In this case chassis system takes priority and separates house system from its circuits.

I have also sent a PM with a wiring diagram.


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Thanks for that mate. 

So, I should be charging from the alternator as well. Thanks for the diagram too; I don't suppose you could send me the section that shows the split charge relay too, could you???? Also the emergency start circuit if you have it.....

 

Many thanks for your time!

Paul


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

Well, that's the split charge issue solved.

It turned out to be two things.

Firstly the large solenoid, which doubles up as a relay to both connect the batteries together when the engine is running to charge the leisure batteries and to do the same for emergency starting, wasn't making. It turned out that the coil is earthed through the body (not unusual) but the negative end of the coil is connected to the inside of the foot plate by a spring. The inside of the foot plate had corroded so no/an unreliable connection from the coil to earth was part of the problem. Fixed that (by soldering a wire to the earth end of the coil and running it to earth) and the solenoid now works fine.

Secondly, the voltage sensing black box wasn't getting any voltage applied for it to sense. Rather than chase wires back through the loom, I just ran a new wire to a battery connection point for the chassis battery. That point, as it is connected to the alternator and the battery, also goes up to 14v or so when the alternator is running.

Sorted.

In the process of all of this, and of fitting some decent av gear I have come across a raft of wiring nightmares. A few have been as a result of poor design/poor quality (and have now been fixed) but most have been as a result of appallingly shoddy conversion work - especially on the 12v systems. Clearly, whoever did the work had absolutely no standards whatsoever. I'm amazed anything works. I won't go into detail here, but suffice it to say I am pretty peeved!

I've also just ordered an International Charger (20A) from Sterling Power Products. I have used their gear before and it is top notch. The reason I went for that is it is meant for large boats and will work on any input voltage from 80 - 300v and 40 - 400Hz. That means that I can plug it in to the 110v outlet in my battery locker without faffing and that it will work fine on our frequency mains and 60Hz from the generator. It also has 3 isolated outputs, so I can connect one to the vehicle battery too. On top of all that it is intelligent so you can always leave it connected and it will keep batteries in top notch order. Info if anyone is interested: http://www.sterling-power.com/ I'm suspicious of my current onboard charger already and I think the buzz it gives out on 50Hz will wind me up eventually.

Lastly, I seem to have a 2A drain from my leisure batteries with everything turned off. I can't be bothered to go hunting at the moment, but are there any likely culprits that I should be watching out for????

Cheers.

Paul


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

paulmj said:


> Lastly, I seem to have a 2A drain from my leisure batteries with everything turned off. I can't be bothered to go hunting at the moment, but are there any likely culprits that I should be watching out for????
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Paul


Could it be a belly locker light?

Keith

PS well done for curing the split charge fault......


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