# First British 'Aires' scuppered.



## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

As many will know, last year Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth councils, in an attempt to encourage motor-homes, allowed free overnight parking on their car parks. Motor-homes had to pay the daily parking rate but could stay overnight from 1800 to 0900 free of charge.

The scheme has now been scrapped because the councils claim that it has been abused, mainly by people ignoring the two-night rule and in some cases, staying for weeks.

There were reports of litter being left and unconfirmed reports of sewage being emptied into hedges.

This is the closest that we've got yet to official aires but, once again, the selfish few are wrecking it for the responsible majority.

An official said: "We wanted to encourage motor-homers to boost tourism but the experiment has raised a number of issues that have to be clarified." Councillor Ted Hockin claimed: "It was intended as a stopover and not a campsite. Unfortunately this has been abused."


I have taken this from an article in the latest edition of MMM, which arrived today.

Very sad!


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
An own goal!. And there was me thinking you would not be able to get on them due to vehicles other than m/homes being on them. Are well ,back to the drawing board.
Jented


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Forgive me for thinking that the council and the locals were 'wishing it' to fail ...

Unless it spins a great ddeal of money for someone rather than raise any feel good factor its usually doomed - which is a shame |


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

1302 said:


> Forgive me for thinking that the council and the locals were 'wishing it' to fail ...
> |


So why did they initiate the scheme in the first place? No one forced them to. It seems a genuine attempt to help motor-homers that has been ruined by a few selfish ones.

I'm sure some of us will remember the Bristol pensioner who stays for two weeks at a time in a lay-by opposite St. Michael's Mount. He insisted that as long as it was legal that he had no problem hogging it for a fortnight!

We all know that there are people who will abuse a scheme like this and ignore the two-day rule. They're a minority but they give us all a bad name.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

It seems to me that they should have patrolled the car parks and fined over stayers.


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

There was a similar situation at the Canterbury Park & Ride some time ago. A lady in a very old Mercedes took up residence and would start up her generator at 6am! I think it was the noisy genny that was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak and she was told to move on !


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## JustRadio (May 21, 2005)

Jezport said:


> It seems to me that they should have patrolled the car parks and fined over stayers.


Yes perhaps, but is this something about us British? I mean it works on the Continent and doesn't seem to be abused.

Also of course most Continental Aires have facilities for losing the **** in a proper manner, so also perhaps this was a plan on the cheap.

Also I commend your attention to http://www.motorhomestopover.co.uk/ over 400 places to stop, or listen to the interview on Motorhome Radio, £30 p.a. Deserving of support.

John
Motorhome Radio - find the radio player on the home page, click the drop down menu and choose us!


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Hobbyfan said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me for thinking that the council and the locals were 'wishing it' to fail ...
> ...


They initiated the scheme as part of one of their many 'follys' So, to answer your question - because they had to. So, also then - they WERE forced to.

They didnt put anything in place to ensure that no one abused it - someone did - so then it failed.

This is all my opinion of course  BUt I have seen it before.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm not really sure what you are saying. No other council 'had to' initiate a scheme where motor-homers where allowed to stay overnight free of charge on their car parks. This council, which is in a tourist area, decided to give it a try. Who forced them?

It was well publicised when it happened and in a way was a success in that a lot more motor-homers visited the two two towns in question.

If the rules are posted and clear, which they were, why should they have to employ people to police it? Although I'm sure that they did police it in a way, using their existing traffic wardens. Their light policing of it is probably how the councils knew it was being abused.

Personally, I'm happy to accept the facts as presented until some others come up to prove that it's all wrong.

Councils allow MH parking overnight , which is intended to be just free overnight stops for us. Some people go on holiday and stay for longer. People complain as the car park is turned into a campsite. Council reacts and changes its mind. Simple.

I see no conspiracy, just the usual old story of the few spoiling it for the many.

It's great shame because if it had worked it might have spread, to the advantage of us all.


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## geordie01 (Apr 20, 2006)

when we were on the aire in gravelines a couple of weeks ago we were parked next to a french mh which was there when we got there.
at night a car pulled up and a couple got out and went into mh. we left next day and returned 10 days later stopped in same place and the mh was still there and had not moved same couple came at night again and left in the morning this time in separate cars. so it also happens in france people overstaying their welcome


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Unfortuneately people have abused the system. A group of travellers set up a "Peace Camp" in the corner of Dawlish Warren and there were others holidaying there on a more or less permanent basis. Chairs, washing and other equipment appeared so I think its fair to say that the Dawlish Warren area was being treated on occasions as a campsite by a few - and there were reports in the local paper of cassette waste and rubbish dumped in the bushes. 

Local campsite operators were complaining that the facility was losing them trade. They totally misjudged the situation thinking that if motorhomers did not use the car park they would use campsites but this of course is totally incorrect as people would not have visited at all. 

As for Teignmouth this site has been fairly responsibly used although one old Mercedes campervan and a converted truck were there for several weeks and one still remains. Generally the area was treated like a car park as it should be. I have heard no complaints from locals about Teignmouth. The initiative was originally championed by the local shopkeepers and as far as I'm aware they are happy. 

As a local resident I understand the Council's concerns completely. They showed initiative but unfortuneately the motorhome community have let themselves down. Some lessons could be learned from this experience and perhaps the way forward would be to charge a few pounds per night so the Aires could be policed correctly. However, some people within the Council have taken so much flak I believe the experiment will not be repeated.

PS I should add that much of this blew up during the 2 months I was away in France so this account is largely taken from discussions with my neighbours.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

We visited Dawlish three times and enjoyed the facility very much.

Although we never saw any abuse or waste dumping, some of the locals told us that MHers were seen emptying cassettes in the bushes.

Its a real shame as we thought it was an ideal short stay site and even emailed the local council and thanked them for their hospitality.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> We visited Dawlish three times and enjoyed the facility very much.
> 
> Although we never saw any abuse or waste dumping, some of the locals told us that MHers were seen emptying cassettes in the bushes.
> 
> Its a real shame as we thought it was an ideal short stay site and even emailed the local council and thanked them for their hospitality.


It is very easy for people to accuse us of doing those sort of disgusting things as we were once wrongly and maliciously accused of the very same thing.
Luckily the head warden at Betwesycoed soon realized that it was a total lie.
It just came down to jealousy about where we were parked


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

_[/quote]

It is very easy for people to accuse us of doing those sort of disgusting things as we were once wrongly and maliciously accused of the very same thing.
Luckily the head warden at Betwesycoed soon realized that it was a total lie.

It just came down to jealousy about where we were parked[/quote]_

I don't think its jealously in this case as the locals can enjoy the locality 24/7. Some people I know locally actually feel sorry for me "having to go on holidays in a campervan" and have asked my wife when we are going on a proper holiday. Some people simply don't get it! One resident even asked me how much my van cost and when I told him he didn't believe me until I showed him a copy of the price list in MMM! This does not portray local jealousy in my view.

It would not surprise me if toilet waste was dumped in the bushes as I've seen some disgusting examples of poor behaviour by fellow motorhomers while wildcamping in Spain.

Frankly, I believe what my neighbours have told me about Dawlish Warren: if that was not true why have there not been similar stories about Teignmouth?


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Grath said:


> It is very easy for people to accuse us of doing those sort of disgusting things as we were once wrongly and maliciously accused of the very same thing.
> Luckily the head warden at Betwesycoed soon realized that it was a total lie.
> It just came down to jealousy about where we were parked


Ok, the 'local' that gave me this information was the owner of the Red Rock cafe.
No axe to grind just a loss of revenue as a lot of of MHers staying at Dawlish used her cafe for breakfast and snacks.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

There seems to be some mixed messages here.
See http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/stopovers_news.shtml

I'm sure another MHF "Local" confirmed that it was a planning issue rather than that mentioned here.

The link talks about Suspension rather than abandonment

More importantly see this
http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=11414
from the Council's own website whuch surel would be more accurate than local gossip??


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*aires*

Why on earth did this ever get done free of charge. If a charge had been levied then the income would have covered the cost of waste emptying facilities.

That aside, in this country we allow travellers to input nothing into society and use our facilities, to stay anywhere they want to for three days and sometimes build a new village without and even explicitly against planning laws, outside build regulations and control. During this time we pay men in donkey jackets to remove their rubbish and clean up their toilet waste and never charge income tax because inspectors are scared to go on the site.

Come on guys get real, the council made a half hearted attempt, didnt pay enough attention to the French system that works and now with draw it because of their misguided, underfunded efforts. Go tell them to do it again but properly this time.

Phil


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: aires*



PhilK said:


> Why on earth did this ever get done free of charge. If a charge had been levied then the income would have covered the cost of waste emptying facilities.
> Come on guys get real, the council made a half hearted attempt, didnt pay enough attention to the French system that works and now with draw it because of their misguided, underfunded efforts. Go tell them to do it again but properly this time.
> Phil


A bit unkind! It was a first attempt to help motor-homers and it was free. Remember, the council wasn't starting from scratch with lots of cheap land as they have in France. Have you any idea what it would have cost to run sewage drains and a water main to the car parks in question? I dread to think of the disruption and cost involved, and just for a few motor-homes!

I actually agree that what they should have done is levied a small charge and supervised it better but, give them a chance, it was a first attempt and they don't deserve ridicule.

Just imagine how much easier British motor-homing would be if we knew that we could simply find a council-owned car park and slip on to it for the night for a couple of quid. Perhaps then use a site or CL every three or four days for services.


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*Aires*

Hobby, I put drains in on a regular basis, I am an NHBC registered builder. That said, I am rarely gentle where local authorities are concerned, this could have been amortised over 20 years (5%) and still been quids in.

Properly facilitated it would have been used heavily and set an example to the plethora of dead heads we have in local government.

Water mains can be run for little cost if on a commercial meter, where the levied charge is paid to the water company (business). I agree with much of what has been said but why do we have to tiptoe around slow thinking 35 hour week working overpaid over pensioned politicians when this is really not complex.

1. Planning is a gimme and free. They ask themselves and themselves says yes.

2. They pay themselves and the money goes in circle.

Oooh how much so far, urm zero.

Distruption is what happens whenn life carries on, everwhere.

Motor homers do or have provided enormous tax revenues to the country, its not complex why the French covert them. They have money.

I think this is going to run....
Phil


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes indeed Phil

We usually ask permission to stay the night in France on in-town car parks and the like, just to avoid the possibility of being chased off in the middle of the night.

More than once the reply has been (In a 'Allo 'Allo accent! :lol: ) _"But of course M'sieur. You haf ze monnaie in ze pockette, and you spend sum of eet 'ere, no?"_

Sound thinking in my opinion. :wink:

Dave


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
Me being cynical,again. When they opened the new services at Cherwell Valley A43/M40, all at once the mobile cafe/snack bars vanished, and lay byes were closed from the north at Brackley,to the south at Weston on the green,so it made loads of money from the drivers who stay in lay byes, and lots of money made from hungry drivers. Now i would be the first to doubt this,but, could not the big Leisure Clubs have got together and applied pressure on the local councils,there by,getting it withdrawn,as this appears to be what happened to the cafe/laybyes. 
Gearjammer ( One time laybye " WILD!!camper! lol)


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

I say again- according to the Teignmouth Council Website, the facility has been temporarily withdrawn whilst they sort out issues regarding Planning; no mention of people outstaying their welcome, travellers, emptyin of toilets, complaints from local caravan sites, or pressure from Leisure Clubs.

If there's someone local, or who would want to use the facility in the future, perhaps they can contact the number given on my earlier link and get the full SP.

Then let us all know....plus MMM

Oh-and ask them to update their website if additional info is availabe :lol:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

When I emailed Teignmouth council I made it known that I would be prepared to pay in the region of £5 per night with proper waste disposal facilities, most motorhome owners would , I think, be prepared to pay for the service.

There are already toilet facilities in the car park so any further provision would not be too expensive.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

This was overnight parking, not an Aire. It seems to have been suspended because overnight parking is not permitted. Presumably then anyone going out for a meal and a few drinks, taking a taxi home and leaving their car for collection the next day is also breaking UK law. 

It is much more likely that problems may occur where there are no facilities, particularly those for disposal. In saying that I am not making excuses for any one who does dispose illegally. I am only saying it is much less likely to happen where there are facilities.

As to the cost of facilities. they can be provided cheaply in many locations as Phil says. Few car parks have no drainage either servicing them or running below them, like wise water mains. Toilet disposal can be into a tank in the absence of a convenient sewer. A portion of the the cost of emptying the tank can be included in each parking charge. Fresh water can be provided via a coin operated machine or included in the cost of parking in which case a tap is all that is required. It is nice if all the facilities are in the same spot but not necessary. So if all the above cannot be found beside each other that is fine, we empty in one place and fill in another. How difficult is that. All that is lacking is the will to do it, Alan.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Surely, with a little bit of planning nobody should need waste disposal facilities, especially if toilet facililities are already on site, for only two nights stay which the council specify? I'm afraid that it appears the problem is with us, the user, not the provider.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

How about if the councils did this.
Put in waste empty point.
Charged £2 per night for a max of 2 nights in any 14 day period.
Any nights over this charged at £20/night.
Any motorhomes found not to be paying charges are clamped until they do pay.

I would be happy with that  It stops the waste problem, it stops the permanent campers and gives them a source of income to cover the cost of the parking attendant.

I think it was very brave of them to try this and hope they don't give it up permanently. If one council could get this to work and it brings in revenue then other councils would surely follow?

Karl


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

ob1, with a little bit of planning and if you are on a short break yes. 

Bearing in mind how scarce facilities are in the UK anyone touring cannot plan in that way quite so easily. Getting services can be tricky in many areas, unless you are prepared to pay for a quick stop to use camp site facilities. I believe that, in many cases, to do that you must be a member of one of the clubs. All this makes it a little difficult for UK based MHers and very difficult for foreign MHers. 

Then there is the question of price. From what I have read, a short stop to empty and fill at a UK campsite can cost as much as a night on a European Aire. People may not consider that to be good value. I wouldn't, Alan.


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*overnight parking*



Spacerunner said:


> When I emailed Teignmouth council I made it known that I would be prepared to pay in the region of £5 per night with proper waste disposal facilities, most motorhome owners would , I think, be prepared to pay for the service.
> 
> There are already toilet facilities in the car park so any further provision would not be too expensive.


Did you get a reply?

Chris


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

I know that these weren't really aires, which is why I put the 'aire' in inverted commas.

Nevertheless I still think that It would be brilliant if all councils allowed just overnight parking. It's a step in the right direction and as I said, I don't mind using a CL occasionally so as to get the essential services.

Just imagine if every town that you visit allows you to park overnight for nothing, or even a couple of pounds and, if they can plumb in basic services it's a bonus.

It's worth pointing out that the claims about abuse were reported to MMM by a council official and a councillor, so there is presumably some credence to them.

I hope that the scheme can be resurrected. If it is and can be made to work it will be an example to other councils, which may follow suit.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Agreed Hf, but I fear that without facilities parking areas are more likely to be abused.

Let me give you an example. We don't go to the UK very often, mainly only for a week or two a year these days. Touring in Europe it is not convenient for me to join UK clubs (no postal address for cards to reach us, very infrequent use and consequent high cost etc.) so CL use is unlikely. How much more unlikely for an overseas visitor who may not know about CL's as they are so very different from what is found elsewhere in Europe, Alan.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Hobbyfan said:


> . If it is and can be made to work it will be an example to other councils, which may follow suit.


This thread has run before, not very long ago and most people made the same points.

My turn to make my same point: there are other councils who allow overnight camping in motorhomes. There are several websites devoted to listing them.

How many people on here use THS ? There is a beauty running all summer not 10 minutes walk from where I live. Looking at the lists it is possible to tour Britain using them and they are not expensive. Some are in rural settings but many in towns and villages.

If you want aires then you too could apply for permission on your local rugby club ground or local school to set up a THS. The more the merrier.

It's not a facility I've ever seen on the continent so clearly it can't be any good as we all know they run things better there....! :wink: :evil:

G


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Alan

I agree that Britain lacks facilities outside of the member clubs but we already know that and plan accordingly. If you then happen to visit, say, Dawlish Warren and find that you can overnight there for two nights but without facilities you either accept the fact or don't stay,for whatever reason. 

Previous posts do seem to be dictating what these councils should provide rather than accepting what they actually provide. Here we have two councils who have gone half way with us only to have their efforts abused. Not a good way to win friends and influence people.

Incidentally, Calais Dock parking area could be classed in the same category for overnight parking. And yes, I have seen people (Brits)dumping their waste directly onto the car park by way of a thank you. 

Ron


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Grizzly said:


> How many people on here use THS ? There is a beauty running all summer not 10 minutes walk from where I live. Looking at the lists it is possible to tour Britain using them and they are not expensive. Some are in rural settings but many in towns and villages.
> G


At the risk of sounding ignorant, what's a THS please?


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## Westkirby01 (Jan 25, 2009)

We have been going to Hay-On-Wye for nearly 30 years now. They provide a car park and allow overnight stops. It used to be unlimited, but due to missuse they only allow 1/14. Have never seen rubbish or waste dumped. Plenty of bins. Reverts to a normal car park after 8am. 

Perhaps this is the way for councils to move forward. Travellers who abuse usually do no like to pay so the day time parking fee deters.

Chester Roo-dee is the same. They charge £1.50 overnight and normal car park fee after 8.30am


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: overnight parking*



Codfinger said:


> Did you get a reply?
> 
> Chris


Yes I did.

They thanked me for my feed back and would forward my suggestions to the appropriate department.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Hobbyfan said:


> At the risk of sounding ignorant, what's a THS please?


Temporary Holiday Site. Set up by C&CC District Associations. Tend to cost £5-10 a night.

See here for an index of the DA websites.

Paul


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

I think we under-utilise some great opportunities in this country.

For the combined cost of around £75pa, you can have access to around 3850 CL/CS sites.

I know there's then the cost of the pitch and it's never going to match the French Aire system but if you can manage to get away for 75 nights a year then it's only £1 a night for the service.

I don't believe there are as many as 3850 French Aires?


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*Re: overnight parking*



Spacerunner said:


> Codfinger said:
> 
> 
> > Did you get a reply?
> ...


Blimey that makes a pleasant change!


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Rosbotham said:


> Hobbyfan said:
> 
> 
> > At the risk of sounding ignorant, what's a THS please?
> ...


I'm currently on a C&CC THS in the Cotswolds for £3.50 a night


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## Seeker (Dec 26, 2005)

What's a CL/CS?

We must keep up the pressure for height restricters and motorhome bans to be removed and for this whole area to be opened up. It would actually boost foreign m/h tourism as well as British. 

The ridiculous and extortionate £10 p night charges on motorway services should also be cut to a reasonable sum.

If charges are to be imposed we must demand services - water and waste disposal and quiet areas.

In tourist spots it's my guess that it's local campsite owners that are at the forefront of imposing restrictions to force motorhomers into their facilities - though they probably do it behind the scenes.

Write to your MP!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Seeker said:


> What's a CL/CS?


These are small sites who, under the auspices of the 2 main clubs, can take a maximum of 5 vans ( unlimited tents) per night. They must provide water and a chemical disposal point but, beyond that, can provide more or less facilites. They can be set up without the lengthy planning procedure that a bigger site needs and are often on farms.



> It would actually boost foreign m/h tourism as well as British.


Have you evidence for this or is it only speculation ?



> The ridiculous and extortionate £10 p night charges on motorway services should also be cut to a reasonable sum.


This charge is more usually £7 - a sum that many aires charge in Europe. It often includes a meal as well, and showers/ loos etc.



> If charges are to be imposed we must demand services - water and waste disposal and quiet areas.


And who is to provide them ? Me, the local ratepayer ?



> In tourist spots it's my guess that it's local campsite owners that are at the forefront of imposing restrictions to force motorhomers into their facilities - though they probably do it behind the scenes.


Evidence ? I'd guess it more likely that it is your local council who, once bitten perhpas, are frightened of the possibility of invasion by traveller.



> Write to your MP!


Why ? More use writing to your local council. They have the yea or nay over setting up local overnighting facilities in their bailiwick !

If you write to your MP then ask if there is a way of changing the law to speed up the eviction process in respect of those who do settle down on someones land. I think you might find, if this happened, then more local councils would be willing to look at the provision of overnighting facilities.

G


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## Marilyn (Nov 5, 2009)

Grommet:


> How about if the councils did this.
> Put in waste empty point.
> Charged £2 per night for a max of 2 nights in any 14 day period.
> Any nights over this charged at £20/night.
> Any motorhomes found not to be paying charges are clamped until they do pay.


That seems like such a good, sensible idea, Karl.

I wonder if we will ever find out what really caused the council to withdraw the service, abuse or the planning issue?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree with seeker. It is not possible to produce evidence but I do know from having spoken to many MHers from Europe that they regard the UK as hostile to them.

I have yet to have a meal included when paying for a motorway stay although I have had discounts for some burger type outlets included.

I don't need or want showers or loos on the motorway so I don't want to pay for them. I have both in my van. 

I would be quite happy to pay to use emptying and filling facilities if they were provided, just as I do in Europe.

I know that in Spain and parts of Ireland local campsite owners are very vocal about vans not using their sites, in Ireland quite a few are councillors, coincidence? They lobby, sometimes with success to have vans moved on or no overnight parking signs erected.

Traveller invasion is a problem, maybe the proposed new law on planning will include some way to make moving them on easier.

I think MP's have a lot of influence over councils, so I suggest writing to both.

Alan.


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## Seeker (Dec 26, 2005)

I think more of us would be willing to use campsites if they had separated areas where you could just park overnight for a fiver using your own facilities and not theirs. What loss to them? - better to have you on an unserviced field for a fiver than nowhere.

For those of us not living in tourist areas there's little point in writing to the local council. It's a national tourism (and human rights) issue that Parliament should concern itself with. There should be no discrimination against us just because we are motorhomers! 

We all agree that the abuse of parking facilities and public spaces by travellers of any description is a scandal that needs to be addressed vigorously. (One French motorhomer pitched up on a path in a park in Leicester for a week and the authorities just let it slide because they had no effective powers.)

Our 'trade bodies' should lobby the councils in tourist areas.

Many local authority planning decisions are influenced by private lobbying by interest groups who have some clout in the political parties.

Harry


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Seeker said:


> I think more of us would be willing to use campsites if they had separated areas where you could just park overnight for a fiver using your own facilities and not theirs. What loss to them? - better to have you on an unserviced field for a fiver than nowhere.


As I have suggested before: write to the clubs. Suggest that they use part of their overnighting area for this purpose. One of their objections is that, despite getting in on a cheap rate, some/ many do use the facilities that others are paying for. We were at a main C&CC site last week where many vans were in the non-electric area and still put their EHU cable through the undergrowth and plugged in. The warden unplugs them but lots do it.



> For those of us not living in tourist areas there's little point in writing to the local council.


But you could write to local authorities in areas you'd like to visit- and point out the advantages of encouraging us.



> (and human rights) issue that Parliament should concern itself with. There should be no discrimination against us just because we are motorhomers!


Human Rights ? What part of your human rights are being infringed ( and I have a copy of the charter next to me !) We're not discriminated against - what do you mean ?



> Many local authority planning decisions are influenced by private lobbying by interest groups who have some clout in the political parties.


And the big clubs are doing their bit on our behalf, by lobbying.

Do you know about the " Tell us about a good place for a CS scheme " ? I've just put in another 3 :

www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/findanewcs

G

Edited to add URL

G


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Seeker said:


> What's a CL/CS?
> 
> We must keep up the pressure for height restricters and motorhome bans to be removed and for this whole area to be opened up. It would actually boost foreign m/h tourism as well as British.
> 
> ...


My belief is that it is local authorities total fear of travellers setting up camp, and their inability to evict them quickly and to bear the clean-up costs.

There is only one inadequate campsite in Portsmouth, the city that touts itself as 'Flagship Britain'. Yet nearly all the carparks are inaccessible to motorhomes.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Grizzly I know your post is in reply to seeker, however once again I agree with much of what he says. 

If areas for Mh's were separate as suggested unauthorised use of facilities would not be possible.

I don't believe the clubs have any interest in accommodating us in a basic, one off way or allowing us to use their services at low prices when they can get top dollar from many. I know about Cls and CCs but they require club membership which, as I said is fine for those living in the UK.

I must admit I have not written requesting facilities from councils but I am very careful always to thank any who do make provision for us.

I think we do have the right to ask for provision. Personally I would not have quoted the Human Rights Act.

Exactly what are the big clubs lobbying for please, Alan.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Council's aren't going to do anything unless things pay their way. As a humble taxpayer, I agree with that, to be honest - my council tax is there to provide facilities for residents, not cheaper holidays for visitors. There's a case to say that providing an aire-equivalent will tempt in more visitors which will benefit the local economy, but (a) that's a justification for local businesses that would benefit to fund and (b) there's a fine line between encouraging new visitors and simply cannibalising the revenues of local campsites. If I owned a campsite I'd be doubly p1ssed off if my council taxes were funding state sponsored competition to my facilities.

Hobbyfan has eloquently explained in the past the costs in providing even simple drainage, so if an aire is to pay its own way, chances are the pricing may actually not be attractive versus using a CL/CS.

As others have said, for UK residents CL/CSs + THSs provide the type of cheap stay that some desire. If I was a councillor, I'd find it little difficult to take a campaign seriously if someone demanded I provided an aire, but wasn't even aware what a CL was.

I do believe there's a gap for foreign visitors to our shore. Seems to me that there may be merit in an ACSI style system being operated by the clubs : e.g. sell a list of the CLs for Euro15 only in foreign markets, and it includes a card that's good to provide temporary membership for X nights at CLs, each night being marked off by the CL owner...perhaps could even do it by the site owner getting a quid back from the club for each of the tabs they knock off the card to give them an incentive to do it.

Paul


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

We passed these two sites last Christmas, cant say I was impressed, ended up wilding on the beach at Slapton sands. I would love to see French type aires here but I wont hold me breath. Dont particularly want to spend a night on a car park with no view and the obligitory boy racers turning up at midnight. 

For us, Im quite happy with what we have. Wilding would always be my first choice but only when its out of the way, quiet and with a scenic view, otherwise I go on a CL which are nearly always lovely. Wont pay more than a tenner if possible. 

Problem with this country is its over populated, full of yobs and nutters, we dont seem to be able to behave without abusing what we have and the councils cant control travellers so the result is an impossible task to introduce an aire type system like the French have. (who can be trusted).


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

I did get some way down the line to getting my local council to consider MH facilities BUT then we had a series of invasions of so called 'travellers' who caused chaos and left mess (and cost thousands in legal costs to evict) so now there is no chance of MH facilities - the whole community is terrified of more travellers turning up. This is a seaside tourist town but the one campsite has height barriers which the warden has to open to let you in and out - because of problems with traveller invasions in the past.
Sadly it is now becoming more common to hear stories of MH owners behaving in an antisocial manner and abusing facilities

As I have said before, the irresponsible behaviour of the few........

Chris


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

why do people want to stay on a carpark?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Karl, I much prefer looking at the sea to looking at a camp site and if stuck I would choose the car park view over the camp site view. I just don't like camp sites, Alan.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

I don't mind camp sites and I've been on some lovely ones with gorgeous views out to sea or over lakes.

However, if you're touring around or driving from A to B sometimes you just want a place to park up for the night.

I could stay on the Calais yacht harbour car park any time and watch the boats coming and going.

I think it's better to be flexible and open minded. "I would never stay on a camp site" is just as inflexible as "I would never stay on an aire or a car park".

I'll stay on either and if the opportunity arises I'll wild camp in a lovely, lonely remote spot!

I'd just like the opportunity to have more car parks such as the ones under discussion so that when I'm wandering around a region I have that extra choice.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Hf, i understand what you are saying. I developed my dislike of camp sites having stayed on a few. Mostly the views were very unappealing, often the sites were cramped and noisy, sometimes kids were running wild and always I was paying a premium price for an experience I was not enjoying. I could ask to see the pitches before agreeing to stay but I would not want to have to tell some one I didn't like their site, which I suspect would be most of the time, so I don't do that, Alan.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

One reason that UK has lagged behind France and other continental countries in the provision of Aires may be that France has many more small privately-owned retailers in their small towns, who therefore have local interests. 

Whereas UK has a greater dominance by large retail groups, not just supermarkets, but it encompasses newsagents like W H Smith, Martins and the wine shops etc

The local staff of these chains are employees and therefore would not be much influenced by the fact that an Aire would bring in more trade and profit to their remotely-based HO and the shareholders. The Managers of these shops are not the payers of Business Rates to the local council and therefore have no right to make representations

Consequently the local, privately-owned retailers have a much smaller voice in their communities than in France for example.

I am not sure whether approaches to the big retailers would have much effect. 

Has anybody tried lobbying the Head Offices or the local branch managers of any large retailers (not supermarkets but high st. ones) ? If so, what was the reaction and what was the effectiveness?

Geoff


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

We like to travel late at night and miss the traffic, aires or carparks are ideal allowing us to park up around 1 or 2 am. Don't know any campsites where you can do that, apart from the late arrivals area at CC sites, and not all of them have one.

Olley


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## jeanie201 (Apr 22, 2008)

Not surprised that British aire closed given the way we have seen some Brits behave on aires in France. Have seen toilets emptied down soak aways, in hedge bottoms near houses and in aire point which was clearly out of use and overflowing! Also British vans parked where it was clearly inappropriate, putting camping equipment out on aires where this was clearly not the done thing etc. Just yesterday at Gravelines one British vanner was emptying waste down the road drain!
So no hope for aires in Britain and may best if some Brits stick to sites rather than aires when in France. (Yes I know it is only a minority and other nationalities do "bad" things as well but always felt that we Brits should set a better example not be worst offenders).


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