# Breeding Morons.



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I get incensed when I hear/read about our Emergency Services being attacked while trying to help some poor unfortunate soul.
What is the mentality of these morons where they get their kicks from harming or just hindering fire, ambulance or police services?
I despair of some of our next generation as the parents obviously are not teaching them any respect or understanding at all.

Moving on, we constantly hear about the plight and conditions of prisoners. So this then promotes rioting and destruction of their comfy accommodation. 
I personally think we are crazy to just move these vandals and arsonists to another nice cosy expensive block. They need hosing down with cold water and forcing back into their created squalor to clean it all up.

Yeah, I know. We have to pity the offenders and ignore the victims. What a weird society. And this is before I get onto 'special' schools for 'deprived' kids.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

The world has definitely gone mad Ray, was just reading in the link below how perpetrators of crimes could be rewarded whilst victims continue to suffer.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ughter-of-train-ira-bomb-victim-35300930.html

Terry


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Ray,

I'm with you 100% 

IF I had my way i would make prison horrendously unpleasant in order to act as a REAL deterrent to the low life scum who think it reasonable to ignore the laws that the rest of us abide by.

There are VERY few first time offenders in prisons (other than murderers etc) it usually takes 6-7 "visits" to the court system before prison is imposed so anyone there is confirmed criminal.

Bring back chain gangs and COMPULSORARY work for 8 hours a day, no "automatic" 50% reduction of sentence for just not being difficult etc etc. 

Prison should be SO unpleasant that no sane person would ever want to return after sampling it's delights. 

To those who say there are not enough prison places available I would say what's wrong with using the CURRENT population to build new one's If any little darlings don't want to work that's fair enough BUT nothing, and I mean NOTHING more than the very basic of accommodation and food. 

Rehabilitation is fine but only AFTER a period of punishment has been served.

Kengis Khan was FAR too much of a bleeding heart liberal for my liking, hang 'em high I say,!!!!

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I was a wrong un in my youth, a good woman got me on the straight and narrow eventually, but why don;t we bring back detention centres and borstals, they may not have been perfect, but they did a lot of effective rehabilitation, unlike modern facilities as for the inmates building new prisons, good idea so long as they are VERY well supervised so they don't build in escape points, I'm sure the lack of prison places is making more scrotes think it's worth having a go, not to mention the the bleeding heart magistrates, 3 strikes and you're out would work well over here too I think, the country has gone soft on crime, and people turn away instead of doing something.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Rehabilitation Kev is learning the stick or the carrot system.
It might be barbaric but some only understand barbarism. 

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Rehabilitation Kev is learning the stick or the carrot system.
> It might be barbaric but some only understand barbarism.
> 
> Ray.


Not sure where the barbarism comes into it Ray, never saw any, but I did see diciplin.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

And the latest proposal?

Give employers an incentive to hire ex-prisoners rather than law abiding citizens. 
Even Walt Disney couldn't have dreamt that one up.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Maybe not a bad idea for some, going straight has to start somewhere doesn't it


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## SteveRallye1 (Nov 29, 2016)

You have started me off now. Bleeding hearts run the system and they tie the prison staff up in legal retraints so that they cannot use their powers fully, that's if they have enough staff to do any part of the job right, seen the latest on the news? As regards the little darlings (offenders) you can try to rehabilitate em as much as you want but its the old adage, you can take a horse to water! At least 20% of prison population are immigrants if you believe the published figures in the papers ,why do we even lock them up,deportation should be the minimum. The NHS is struggling for funds and we continue to waste money on the prison system! I agree with most of suggestions but the answer to it all will not come in our life time.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Maybe not a bad idea for some, going straight has to start somewhere doesn't it


So two people apply for the same job both fully qualified.
One has walked the straight and narrow all his life been a good citizen.
The other has served numerous prison terms.
Who gets the job? The ex-con because the government gives the employer a backhand payment. Meanwhile the good guy languishes on the dole and is treated with contempt and distain so turns to crime in an attempt to look after his family.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> So two people apply for the same job both fully qualified.
> One has walked the straight and narrow all his life been a good citizen.
> The other has served numerous prison terms.
> Who gets the job? The ex-con because the government gives the employer a backhand payment. Meanwhile the good guy languishes on the dole and is treated with contempt and distain so turns to crime in an attempt to look after his family.


So you reckon they should just continue a life of crime then, if so you'll get the future you deserve, someone gave me a chance, I took it as would a lot of others.

I don't want bleeding hearts either, we have gone too far down that road, but we need to do something, the status quo isn't going to work.

I think the employer needs to look to his business, no point in hiring just to get a backhander, it needs to be on skills or ability to further the business.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Of course reformed criminals should be given every incentive to get back into a respectable lifestyle, but not at the expense of the law abiding majority.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Apart from the US we have the highest prison population and most draconian sentencing in the West and have had for decades. I really can't buy the bleeding heart liberals as the reason why kids attack the emergency services. One thing for sure is that these thugs see themselves as totally outside society and that stoning anyone in uniform that represents the state is seen by them as sticking it to the man. A protest at their condition.

We now live (and have lived for the last 30 odd years) in a country where a 10 word headline in the Sun or Mail carries more weight when it comes to our penal policy than a learned paper by those involved compiled over years.

_"An explosion in the use of indeterminate sentences and the increased use of long determinate sentences are key drivers behind the near doubling of prison numbers in the past two decades. The latest edition of the Bromley Briefing Prison Factfile, published today (30 November) by the Prison Reform Trust, reveals the cost of our addiction to imprisonment in wasted time, money and lives.

The prison population in England and Wales has soared by over 40,000 since 1993, and currently stands at 85,163. England and Wales has the highest imprisonment rate in Western Europe at 148 per 100,000 of the population. This compares to an imprisonment rate of 100 per 100,000 in France and 78 per 100,000 in Germany. At an average annual cost per place of £36,237, the rise in the prison population since 1993 represents an estimated additional cost of £1.22bn annually."
_from http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/PressPolicy/News/vw/1/ItemID/279

The young thug on the sink estate, without education or hope sees throwing stones firemen protecting property as a way, however futile, as making their voice heard. Much in the same way as their fathers and grand fathers registered to vote in great numbers to vote this summer in a world that they saw as ignoring them.

Dick (going to get his coat :smile2


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Because prison as it stands is no deterrent. It needs to be made more of a deterrent. Open prisons are very like a holiday camp as one inmate told me. Stack em 4 deep and no TV would go a long way to make an impression.

Ray.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

raynipper said:


> Because prison as it stands is no deterrent. It needs to be made more of a deterrent. Open prisons are very like a holiday camp as one inmate told me. Stack em 4 deep and no TV would go a long way to make an impression.
> 
> Ray.


Again Ray I could if I looked show that our prison regime is harsher than any in the West other than the US. The complaints that supposedly sparked the recent riot included a long list of grievances. OK it was sparked by an attack on a warder but it would not have received support in a place of content.

Dick


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Again you can argue with numbers Dick but why have we so many 'repeat' offenders if our prisons are so tough. And on what basis are our prisons so tough? 
I personally can't see the facilities our prisoners enjoy being tough.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think that a lot of the crime from younger offender is because they are not stupid, they are on social media, they see the news, they know there is no deterrent to crime, even more serious crime, they know if they are too young they get away with it, parents are now powerless, a clip around the ear may have made some of them think before doing minor stuff so that's all gone to cock, I don't agree with abuse, been there and had that, but they went too far too quickly, if you commit any crime then there should be a fitting punishment suit to the severity, there are no victimless crimes, a slap on the wrist for the first offence only if very minor, but get caught again and it's custodial, build the prisons, get the right staff and it may turn around, but it will need politicians with a large set of balls, which we dont have.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It all starts so much earlier than that first crime. It starts with the toddler that screams for something he wants and then gets it because it is "easier" to give it to him than to face the consequences. The small child that refuses to go to bed until it has seen umpteen different cartoons and then wakes up with more demands that get met.
They then grow up in neighbourhoods where everyone minds their own business and turns a blind eye when a child starts to go off the rails.
They go to schools where the teachers have no powers to instil discipline and if they try they have to deal with the wrath of the indulgent parent. 
I have still not got over the sight of parents buying children take away meals and thrusting them through the railings for their children at lunchtime. Poor things could not be expected to eat a packed lunch or a perfectly balanced school meal.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Sorry guys, but a lot of you are coming over as moaning old gits. This old git has got no idea how to “fix” our society but the old knee jerk reaction of beat um and hang um never worked in the past so why would it work now? :frown2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Surely the knowledge that if you commit a crime you WILL be taken into a prison system that is both harsh and unpleasant must act as more of a deterrent than the knowledge that you will NOT go to prison but get 
1. A caution
2. Another caution
3. A conditional discharge
4. A fine
5. A community service order
6. A suspend sentence
7. FINALLY a custodial sentence

And that's for the offence that you actually get to court for !!!!!

Madness

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

greygit said:


> Sorry guys, but a lot of you are coming over as moaning old gits. This old git has got no idea how to "fix" our society but the old knee jerk reaction of beat um and hang um never worked in the past so why would it work now? :frown2:


Yep, grumpy is the word. And thats me as we pander too much to so called 'deprived' or 'dysfunctional' people and families. Why should the rest of us have to learn to understand or re educate something that should have been installed by parents early in a childs upbringing. Too often some mythical THEM is always blamed for things people find too difficult or time consuming.

Yes GG, bang em up four deep and hose em down with cold water at the slightest sign of unrest.!!!

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

greygit said:


> Sorry guys, but a lot of you are coming over as moaning old gits. This old git has got no idea how to "fix" our society but the old knee jerk reaction of beat um and hang um never worked in the past so why would it work now? :frown2:


Who suggested anything about beatings or hanging people? All that would do is engender resentment for society as a whole, they already have that in spades.

I don't know the answer either, but something needs to be done sooner rather than later.


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## padraigpost (Dec 8, 2010)

D***head parents breed d***head children


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Glandwr said:


> ... One thing for sure is that these thugs see themselves as totally outside society and that stoning anyone in uniform that represents the state is seen by them as sticking it to the man. A protest at their condition.


Do you think it's as complicated as that Dick?

I remember back in the 70's in Portadown (which I believe was the murder capital of Europe at the time) our Salvation Army man asking the rhetorical question "What can I give the youngsters that is as exciting as being chased by the British Army?"



raynipper said:


> .... why have we so many 'repeat' offenders if our prisons are so tough. And on what basis are our prisons so tough?
> I personally can't see the facilities our prisoners enjoy being tough.
> 
> Ray.


I think it's fairly well documented Ray that abused children - in the widest sense of the word - often go on to be abusing adults. I can't see it would be any different for adults.

My husband used to visit prisoners as part of his job and he always said he took his hat off to them, the way they could cope with having their liberty removed. That's not to say he condoned their actions in any way, and of course the prison was full of 'innocent' men, but he didn't see prison as, in any way, an easy option.



Kev_n_Liz said:


> Who suggested anything about beatings or hanging people? All that would do is engender resentment for society as a whole, they already have that in spades.
> 
> I don't know the answer either, but something needs to be done sooner rather than later.


I couldn't agree more Kev.

If they do nothing else in prison, and they don't appear to do much these days, banging prisoners up 23hrs a day (how does a non-reader or non-thinker cope with that?) they should at least give courses on anger-management.

And actually I think, judging by the Brexit and Trump votes recently, and the aftermath, that we could all do with some anger-management training.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

prison is the only deterrent to use when nothing else fits the criteria available in this present society.A distinct lack of moral and other education has been lacking for many years now. Did I notice a little while back that the Isle of Man considered bringing back the birching.What is their present state regarding crime figures, anyone know.
No one likes physical punishment, maybe that is the answer for some.We can only have a low success rate though retraining.

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

jiwawa said:


> I couldn't agree more Kev.
> 
> If they do nothing else in prison, and they don't appear to do much these days, banging prisoners up 23hrs a day (how does a non-reader or non-thinker cope with that?) they should at least give courses on anger-management.
> 
> And actually I think, judging by the Brexit and Trump votes recently, and the aftermath, that we could all do with some anger-management training.


The work inmates get is in itself soul destroying, but it needs to be able to be done by the worst thicko, assembling toys their own kids will never see, I don't think mail bags and coir matting and nets are still on the job list, some are lucky enough to get jobs outside the walls proper jobs and they may do well out of it, but I'd not want to be in there now, cushy or not, the threat of violence must be ever present.


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