# Sat Nav ban in France - what's happening?



## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Apologies if I've missed this but what is the latest on the ban on sat navs with speed camera detectors in France?

I was reminded of it in the newspaper today, apparently the police can fine you over £1000 if you have a sat Nav capable of detecting speed cameras, even if you have it turned off. 

I find it difficult to believe that no-one in France is using a Tom tom or, as we have, a Garmin.


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

We live in France, have a TomTom and use it all the time. But we have updated it recently and in so doing had all the speed camera locations removed. It seems to warn of dangers but not of speed cameras. Still a good bit of kit to get one from A to B.


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## Chas17 (May 1, 2005)

Garmin web
site has a procedure for deactivating French speed camera warnings


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

esperelda said:


> Apologies if I've missed this but what is the latest on the ban on sat navs with speed camera detectors in France?
> 
> I was reminded of it in the newspaper today, apparently the police can fine you over £1000 if you have a sat Nav capable of detecting speed cameras, even if you have it turned off.
> 
> I find it difficult to believe that no-one in France is using a Tom tom or, as we have, a Garmin.


Of course the French are using Tom Tom and Garmin but have either disabled the French Camera locations or upgraded them to the new 'Hazard' location ones, which may or may not, also be camera locations. It has yet to be reported that the Police are stopping drivers en masse and checking their satnavs, a bit like checking for spare bulbs and hi-viz vests.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

esperelda said:


> Apologies if I've missed this but what is the latest on the ban on sat navs with speed camera detectors in France?
> 
> .


A ban on using radar detectors applies in most of the rest of Europe too. See:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/compulsory_equipment.pdf

for the list and that only includes Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal ,Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

Quote from the AA- above:

_ Many countries now stipulate that GPS based navigation systems which have maps indicating the location of 
fixed speed cameras must have the 'fixed speed camera PoI (Point of interest)' function deactivated. _


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The GPS systems (Sat Navs) have the caera locations as part of the maps, in order to display them you have to activiate that warnng, if you update TT that warnng for France is automatically removed so you cannot have speed camera warnings.

Radar detectors are totally different (e.g. Road Angel) and it has aways been illegal to even have one on a car in many EU countries including France. 

That is nothing like the new safety warnings that TT (and Garmin I think?) are now replacing them with - this includes the location of sharp bends, steep hills and accident blackspots - it may also include where speed cameras have previously been located but the French authorities have stopped publiching the locations as they used to.

So far I have not heard of a single driver being stopped - let alone hoards, but someone may have other information......

If you are travelling to France update your TT before travel and you can then show that you have removed them even if the locations are still indicated as part of the safety locations.

Your interpretation of the AA quote is inaccurate AFAIK - France is unique on the ban of GPS locations although radar detectors are commonly banned (but are still openly on sale in French supermarkets....... :roll: ). The table specifically says radar detectors it does not mention GPS systems.

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Thank you Dave. We stick rigidly to the speed limits anyway so have never gone into the niceties of speed cameras and radar detectors. 8)

We took our new TT with us in April and I did everything I could to turn off warnings, to no effect. It was only when we got home that we discovered that it could not be done from the satnav itself ( as it could on our old TT700) and had to be done via TT's free update. 

The TT does two types of cameras as far as I can see: ones where the icon on the screen flashes- live ? and ones that do not flash - fixed ? I could disable the latter but not the former.

G


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I found with our TT Live that we had many more warnings on the journey from home to St Malo - 679km, but the actual speed camera locations are still marked on the autoroutes even though Sarkzy said they would be removed.........

But there are two sounds that come over as you say, but they do not cause us a problem either - my speed warning device is usually sat beside me......... and does not need turning off for French roads.

That is the best system I have ever come across as that system provides a very clear warning that cannot be misinterpreted........  

Dave :lol:


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## Chas17 (May 1, 2005)

Garmin web
site has a procedure for deactivating French speed camera warnings


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## seanoo (Mar 31, 2007)

does it really matter if you dont have the french cameras on your sat nav as they cant chase you for the fine anyway (yet) . the gendarmes hiding in bushes with speed guns is a different matter though.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

Many forum posts also say the Gendarmes have no rights to reach in and touch your satnav, or play with it to see if you have actual camera locations labelled as such, so how would they find out anyway?!

I wonder if any knowledgable folks could confirm this?

Are they also going to impound all road maps pre-2012 since many have camera locations too?

Jason


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As regards maps the legislation says GPS and does not refer to maps at all - it would be ludicrous to try to ban pre 2013 maps (the 2012 were printed *BEFORE* this was suggested and were on sale in 2011 :lol: ).

The powers of the Gendarmes are not clarified anywhere that I have found but it would take a very brave person to try to stop _Msr le flic _from doing such things - you may well find yourself subjected to a total check of the vehicle "_to ensure it is legal_", and remember that if you lay a hand on them to stop them that could provoke very unpleasant side-effects... 

I doubt that it will prove to be the problem that many people believe it to be - it is certainly not a high priority amongst the people I speak with regularly, much more likely is being stopped for exceeding the speed limit by 6kph or failing to stop for what the Gendarme believe to be enough time at the "STOP" sign (some say 5 seconds, some say enough to put the handbrake on and then take it off - but all agree it must be an ACTUAL stop not the rolling stop that is frequently seen as people look and move forward as the road is clear......

My basic thought is relax and do not worry until circumstances suggest there is anything to worry about.  There are enough other things to consider before this rears it's head as a real problem........ :wink:

Dave


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I'm off to France in a few weeks and want to make sure I've got everything right.

1)Is it still true that it is illegal in France to have speed camera notifications on your satnav?

2)Does anyone have any experience of being pulled up by the gendarmes for this?

3)Can they tell if you have it turned on before they stop you?

4)I have just updated my tom-tom and noticed that the speed camera notifications can be turned off country by country, should I delete French speed cameras entirely or just turn off notifications when I enter France?

5)Lastly, I understand that breathalysers are not required to be carried by French law, is this still true?

I try not to speed and never drink and drive but I am wary after an incident a few years ago ...... I and about a dozen French drivers were pulled up for overtaking a slow tractor on a straight road with double white lines, the French drivers were waved on with a warning and I got an on the spot fine of 90 euros!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Our sat nav will only allow you to switch off this option when you have access to a computer. Thus we drove through France for several trips with it switched on ( we forgot to do it when at home and didn't like to do it when away in case we messed the entire thing). Our sat nav does not transmit so there is no way they can tell if this function is on or off. 

I understand the law is still in operation and, given how nervous I was about getting stopped ( plan A, burst into tears...) then I would definitely switch it off for France.

The breathalyser law is more tricky.  It seems that the law requiring you to carry one is still on the statute books but the fine for not carrying one (11 euros ?) will not be enforced until further notice. We have an old one anyway which has possibly expired. ( If stopped then Plan A again)

I appreciate that Plan A, if you are male, is not going to work and think I'd carry a pair anyway just to give you peace of mind. I suspect that, in order to be asked for either a breathalyser or a to show your sat nav, you'd have had to have committed some other offence that caused the police to pull you over in the first place.

G


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

HaHa, Is Plan A why your called Grizzly???

Mel.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Baron1 said:


> HaHa, Is Plan A why your called Grizzly???
> 
> Mel.


I reckon Plan A would work better if I was a leggy blonde 20 year old but perhaps some of the policemen are kind to grannies ?

G


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

OK as definitive answers as I can give from the perspective of someone living in France, reading French news papers and talking to literally hundreds of different people at very many events.......

Your questions and hopefully my answers.......

1)Is it still true that it is illegal in France to have speed camera notifications on your satnav?

YES it is illegal to display speed camera locations or publicise them, BUT it is perfectly legal to display "Dangerous location" or "Care needed here" locations as long as they are not called "speed camera locations" - the speed camera locations used to be published on a weekly basis in the press, but no longer.

2)Does anyone have any experience of being pulled up by the gendarmes for this?

NO, neither I nor my friends or acquaintances have ever been asked to prove this, even if they have been stopped to check paperwork (which happens fairly often) 

3)Can they tell if you have it turned on before they stop you?

 Not AFAIK, no-one has ever said that they would have that ability and I don't think it exists.

4)I have just updated my tom-tom and noticed that the speed camera notifications can be turned off country by country, should I delete French speed cameras entirely or just turn off notifications when I enter France?

 IMO, leave them alone and they will warn you of locations where care is needed, that may well coincide with the roadside signs warning you that speed cameras are in the area, but is usually about 150m inaccurate......

5)Lastly, I understand that breathalysers are not required to be carried by French law, is this still true?

 That is correct, the law has never been enabled, even though it exists, and most of those bought for this are now running out of life, there are no plans that I have seen or heard of to resurrect this item, so relax they are not required, but spare light bulbs, yellow vests for all users and a reflective warning triangle *are* required....

I hope that helps, feel free to ask for specific details although I cannot remember the precise location of every camera between St Malo and Bergerac I can tell you how many you will pass - 7 in total.......

Dave


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## p-c (Oct 27, 2007)

Dave
Great answers, thank you. I had only this morning looked at my breathetlysers, free when wine tasting expire July 2013!, and wondered what the current situation was.
Thanks again
p-c


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks Dave that's really helpful, one more query.... if I disable speed cameras will my satnav still display "dangerous locations" or "care needed here" or are they just euphemisms for speed cameras???

Rgds Mel.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If you disable the warnings they will NOT show the locations of dangerous places which need extra care.......

Does that help?

Ours remain switched on wherever we are and are updated frequently, Tom Tom simply switched the warning but it is still there....

I genuinely do not believe the French Gendarmes are worried about such things but are under a high degree of pressure to cut down speeding - and do not give the same tolerance that is found in the UK (UK= speed + 10% +2mph, any higher = prosecution), in France posted speed + 1 kph = prosecution (€90 fine if paid on the spot or after visit to ATM with police officer in attendance......if + >15% = heavy penalties, if >> speed limit e.g. speed + 50% = massive fine and prosecution and suspension of licence to drive in UK and vehicle can be impounded for another driver to remove.......{ask Clarkson and Hammond})

Answer DO NOT SPEED> 

Dave


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## hogan (Oct 31, 2006)

I leave mine on in every country I visit.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I resent Grizzlys comment that Plan A to "Burst into Tears" will only work if your female. I was counting on that one! Sexist if you ask me! :?


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

The AA info with regard to the use of satnavs and speed cameras here in Spain is I think incorrect.

Here's some press coverage of the upcoming new/clarified regulations here (likely to be in force from around this summer onwards).

You'll see that whilst the use of SatNav options that can DETECT or even JAM speed cameras is forbidden in Spain; the use of a satnav which has the locations of known fixed camera added to it from the Satnav suppliers information database, or from any other database, is permitted.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/03/21/inenglish/1395421359_504010.html


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Unless my memory is playing tricks all that is happening is what happened in the UK a long time ago. Radar and laser speed track detectors were already banned. When GPS became a popular way of doing the same, the Police moved to ban them too. So the SatNav community merely changed things to flag up danger spots rather than speed traps.

The Police didn't like being outmaneuvered, so quickly countered "but you're NOT flagging danger spots, you're flagging camera spots!", at which point it became obvious to the public what they already suspected, that the positioning of camera spots was to maximise revenue, NOT minimise accidents. 

It went a bit quiet after that 

Dave


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## Baron1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks again Dave (Penguin),
When you say that tom-tom switched the warning do you mean that when you turn speed cameras on in France it shows the "locations of dangerous places that need extra care" INSTEAD of speed cameras?

Sorry if I am being a bit thick here and I promise you I am not being deliberately obtuse, I just want to be careful with my license.

Many Thanks
Mel.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

They simply changed what they warn you about so that it includes all places that have been reported as dangerous; very steep hills, very tight turns and restricted width (but we have never seen that), where speed cameras are or ever have been, traffic congestion if you have TomTom Live and similar things.

It cannot be detected unless the police official decides to examine the whole thing which is very unlikely and provided you drive sensibly and don't slam your brakes on when the warning comes up you are very unlikely to ever be suspected.

I believe that they still call it "Speed cameras" when you renew from outside France but "dangerous places" if you renew and have a logged address as French based....

Unless you markedly exceed the limits or similar your license is OK as the reciprocal details cannot be passed through - the UK Government refused to pay for the costs, so people like Clarkson and Hammond were told by the court that they were banned from driving in France for 1 year - which they can do in spite of not being able to put it on their licenses but they are able to record it on the French database.....

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

MrsW said:


> We live in France, have a TomTom and use it all the time. But we have updated it recently and in so doing had all the speed camera locations removed. It seems to warn of dangers but not of speed cameras. Still a good bit of kit to get one from A to B.


I had a think about this when I first heard about it, with TomTom it's a OV2 file and a BMP file, just change the names to be something other than speed cams, such as 30percent discount store, 40percent discount store, which I believe is not illegal


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

Penquin said:


> They simply changed what they warn you about so that it includes all places that have been reported as dangerous; very steep hills, very tight turns and restricted width (but we have never seen that), where speed cameras are or ever have been, traffic congestion if you have TomTom Live and similar things.
> 
> It cannot be detected unless the police official decides to examine the whole thing which is very unlikely and provided you drive sensibly and don't slam your brakes on when the warning comes up you are very unlikely to ever be suspected.
> 
> ...


TomTom also changed existing camera locations to warn you of a stretch of road, ie 3/4oo yards, rather than a specific point. In other words you get warned earlier than before.

Malcolm


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi

re the breathalyser question, all I can say for sure is that we bought one on the ferry last year. We got pulled over for a breath test and produced our own breathalyser (as we thought we had to) The gendarmes said no you don't need them we use our own. Hubby passed by the way

Jacqui


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Does the new BMW Mini with Media Pack not come with Speed Warnings?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

> * JLO said; *Hi re the breathalyser question, all I can say for sure is that we bought one on the ferry last year. We got pulled over for a breath test and produced our own breathalyser (as we thought we had to) The gendarmes said no you don't need them we use our own. Hubby passed by the way
> 
> Jacqui


which, I think, confirms what has been said repeatedly, the sale of breathalysers by ferries and many other companies, is a profit-making exercise *only* with no legally required basis, but I am sure they are far from unique in such behaviour.........

Dave :roll:


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