# Empty Bike Rack In Italy



## pfil32

We are going to Italy next month and although I know it is compulsary to show Red and White striped plate for the bike rack if you are carrying bikes, but do you still need one on the bike rack if you are not carrying anything on it. We are not taking our bikes and our rack will not be used for anything else but in theory I suppose it is still portruding from the back of the van so do I still need to attach a plate to it. 

Phil


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## Penquin

AFAIK YES

as you said it protrudes beyond the back of the vehicle so the board is required with the chevrons pointing down to the offside for Italy, and Italy requires it to be made of aluminium (funnily enough Fiamma make them and they are ............. Italian..... :lol: )

Dave


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## rogerblack

Why not take the rack off? It's very easy to remove the parts that can be released by hand, although having got that far it's usually only another four nuts and bolts to get the lot off. 
Ours even came with some natty white plastic covers for the remaining mounting brackets . . .


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## Zebedee

Penquin said:


> AFAItaly requires it to be made of aluminium (funnily enough Fiamma make them and they are ............. Italian..... :lol: ) Dave


The Fiamma ones are plastic Dave - even more amazing. :roll:

If I were Phil I wouldn't bother. He could play a game of "_spot the board_" on the back of an Italian motorhome . . . but the scores would not be very high, and half the ones he did spot would have the stripes pointing the wrong way! :lol:

That's Italy though - and I love it! :wink:

Dave


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## Penquin

Fiamma make both - aluminium and plastic;

http://www.fiammastore.com/Carry-Bike-Accessories/Fiamma-Carry-Bike-Rear-warning-Signal

two versions available.......

Plastic £6.99

Aluminium £28.99

and having checked, yes it is required even for an empty rack......

Dave


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## BlackScorpion

*Cycle rack*

If you have a board use it anyway, the Police abroad can be very keen !


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## rayc

*Re: Cycle rack*



BlackScorpion said:


> If you have a board use it anyway, the Police abroad can be very keen !


You obviously haven't seen Dorset's finest with their No Excuse campaign. I'll take my chances with the French authorities over them any day.


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## rugbyken

our old van used to sit on the drive and the bike rack would overhang the footpath but as roger say's they are very easy to remove the top fixing's are hook's and if you replace the bottom bolt's with long shank padlock's it becomes the work of seconds to take it on and off,


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## Philippft

Are they required in France ? Ali or plastic?


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## blackbirdbiker

pfil32 said:


> We are going to Italy next month and although I know it is compulsary to show Red and White striped plate for the bike rack if you are carrying bikes, but do you still need one on the bike rack if you are not carrying anything on it. We are not taking our bikes and our rack will not be used for anything else but in theory I suppose it is still portruding from the back of the van so do I still need to attach a plate to it.
> 
> Phil


And you need the one with the red circles on each corner for Itlay

Keith


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## Techno100

I understood it had to protrude more than 500mm to require a board but I stand to be corrected.


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## cronkle

Here's the law regarding Italy:

http://www.aci.it/?id=762

The bit about deign is 'This surface must be coated with a reflective material stripes alternating red and white arranged at 45 °'.

and:

'To this end, on the surface of the panel normally consists of sheet metal, must be applied reflective film class 2, both for the white stripes for red ones. '

I've not found a bit about which way the stripes must slope.

There may, of course, be another law saying that the cheaper Fiamma board is also legal. I would be interested to know if there is one.


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## Techno100

Downwards to the middle of the road
http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/f_carry_bike_acc.htm


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## Penquin

No, Italy insists that the whole surface must have reflective properties so the Fiamma aluminium board is OK, the plastic is not as it has reflectors at various points only.

The direction of stripes is standard throughput Europe as pointing to the offside for the country - Fiamma say that.

Dave


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## hmh

*Empty Bike rack . . .*

We are travelling through France on our way to Spain and Portugal, with bikes but have forgotten the Fiamma board . . . !

Will the French or the Spaniards do us for it ?

Helen


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## Penquin

French not a chance - there are many more without than with and they are not required for France AFAIK,

Spanish possibly as they have to clear their Eurozone debt somehow and you wealthy motorhomers are good for that .......... (all in fluent Spanish if course :lol: ) They are required in Spain.........

I feel a trip to a leisure shop for a cheap plastic one coming on "just in case"

Dave


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## chrisgog

Never knew that there was a correct way to attach the board. Just checked ours and we always set it up for Continental travel anyway (got a GB sticker on it)
Chris


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## Camdoon

What about a back box then which protrudes although a softer landing than landing on a bike rack?
I emailed Fiamma about this and heard nothing.


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## Geriatricbackpacker

Drove around Spain last year totally oblivious to the fact that we needed a board on the cycle rack. Not wanting to push our luck we have bought one for this year, not sure which way the chevrons are pointing at the moment as it's peeing down outside and I am sat next to a very warm log fire. I will check it before we set off tomorrow...weather permitting.


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## Penquin

There does not appear to be a minimum projection distance that I have been able to find before such a warning board is required, except in the UK.......

but that does not help you a lot either......

sorry, cannot give you a specific answer to your black box enquiry - what size is the projection? Over how much of the rear surface is the obstruction covering?

Better safe than sorry IMO - that way you are less likely to encounter some over-zealous officer of the local enforcement agency breathing hard while asking for donations to their rescue fund.........

I wonder how often, if ever, people have been in trouble for having the chevrons NOT pointing down to the middle of the road i.e. the offside?

I can well see why people "forget" such things and drive with their fingers crossed.......

Dave


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## Camdoon

The back box sits on a cycle rack so protrudes further than the cycle rack. Fiamma do not show it with a board and there are no logical indents or tags on the box to attach a board.


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## nicholsong

Penquin said:


> There does not appear to be a minimum projection distance that I have been able to find before such a warning board is required, except in the UK.......
> 
> but that does not help you a lot either......
> 
> sorry, cannot give you a specific answer to your black box enquiry - what size is the projection? Over how much of the rear surface is the obstruction covering?
> 
> Better safe than sorry IMO - that way you are less likely to encounter some over-zealous officer of the local enforcement agency breathing hard while asking for donations to their rescue fund.........
> 
> I wonder how often, if ever, people have been in trouble for having the chevrons NOT pointing down to the middle of the road i.e. the offside?
> 
> I can well see why people "forget" such things and drive with their fingers crossed.......
> 
> Dave


If there is no minimum projection distance then what about a towbar and a ladder?

Geoff


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## Penquin

Sorry Geoff, I cannot answer that - or the question about the back box - it may be hidden somewhere in some obscure legislation in Italian, but I have not got a clue about that - as I said earlier........

I can, and will, only comment on things that I am able to find out about - and the required projection distance only appears easy to find for the UK, and that is not a lot of use.......

Dave


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## hblewett

A few years ago we were about to go int Italy from Slovenia, and when I went to get the reflector board - it wasn't there! So we bouht one at the first opportunity and the only one which was stocked was the Fiamma aluminium one. I got a bit of a shock at the price of my packing error, but at least we have known we are legal ever since (when we bother to put it on!


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## flob

Does anybody know how much is the fine in Italy & Spain for not having this red/white panel?

I'm about to leave Romania and travel to Spain in a couple of hours and only today I saw that I need this plate on the bike rack. I don't really want to deviate from my route in order to go and find a shop that sells this kind of plates...and where I currently live there's no Fiamma shop or any other shop that sells them.


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## Penquin

I strongly suspect that between Rumania and Spain there are many such Camping Car accessory shops - most big towns have one and for Spain the plastic one is perfectly legal.

If you are going via Italy then I would make it a fairly high priority simply for peace of mind, continually spotting police cars and wondering "are they going to stop me after I have gone past" is not conducive to stress-free driving.

Dave


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## Blizzard

Afterca forum search, I'm still actively looking for info regarding the plate requirement if I take the bike rack off, but leave my ladder on, as I will need access to my roof box, but I'm struggling.

I found the following link to be mostly useful....



Techno100 said:


> Downwards to the middle of the road
> http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/f_carry_bike_acc.htm


However, there's a nice bit of scaremongering in it, where they state....

...."We frequently see these fitted incorrectly in the UK, you're unlikely to be stopped like that but woe betide you if you're involved in any kind of traffic transgression or accident whatsoever!"

1) They're not a legal requirement in the UK, so therefore cannot be fitted the wrong way up. You could hang them any which way but loose and paint them sky blue pink and the UK authorities would have no control whatsoever.

2) Because of point 1, users are probably setting them up ready for the country where there is a legal requirement for their use.

3) "woe betide you if you you are involved in any traffic transgression or accident whatsoever" ??

I would argue point 3 to the contrary, in that the plate fitted ready for Continental use, provides higher visibility to your bike rack while travelling through the UK and anyone rear ending you should have less of a claim of not seeing you.
If you crash in to someone else, or cause a collision or are involved in any traffic transgression (speeding, careless driving, drink driving or many others) What does having your plate pointing the wrong way have to do with it ?

Food for thought,

Ken.


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

We have had a Scooter carrier installed in Rome, it has an integeral "Bumper" like thing that houses all the lights and such and the scooter is inside the projection of this fitting.
I asked do I get a board included in the price of the fitting, they replied you do not need one as the bumper now becomes the rear of the van as the lights and such are all in that, and the scooter is now not the thing that sticks out the farthest.

ray.


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## Stanner

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> We have had a Scooter carrier installed in Rome, it has an integeral "Bumper" like thing that houses all the lights and such and the scooter is inside the projection of this fitting.
> I asked do I get a board included in the price of the fitting, they replied you do not need one as the bumper now becomes the rear of the van as the lights and such are all in that, and the scooter is now not the thing that sticks out the farthest.
> 
> ray.


That is exactly how I understand the law to be in the UK and why we don't require a plate.

Because if you are complying with UK law (as I understand it) you will already have a number plate and lights on the "rearmost plane" of the vehicle.

It appears that countries such as Italy do not require the number plate to be positioned on the "rear" of the vehicle, only that it can be seen from behind.


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## 113016

Has anybody thought about Country of Origin :?: 
When I was trucking, UK trucks did not and still do not show different speed limit stickers on the rear. Some if not most main land European trucks did and had to. The same on the Tacko, we stayed on UK time!
I wonder if push come to shove, the Italians could really enforce it.
OK they would frighten and try it on, and would even issue a fine, but would it stand up in court? :?: 
However, it is much easier and less hassle, just to comply 

edit
Incidentally, the striped markers on the rear of trucks are also different :lol:
Basically, with a truck, if it complies with Country of Origin, it is legal in other Countries.
So a M/H should be no different!


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## Blizzard

Grath said:


> Has anybody thought about Country of Origin :?:
> ..........!


That's a good point, but I don't know how it works around safety equipment.

At home we don't need to carry hi-viz vests, spare bulb kits, warning triangles, spare glasses etc etc


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