# bikes on back of MH, need a warning signal board in France?



## stevegos

Off to France next week for the first time in our MH. 

We will have 2 bikes on the rear bike rack. Do I need one of those read striped warning signal boards attached to the bikes?

We are only travelling in France. A Google search reveals no conclusive answer but appears to be mandatory in Spain and Italy.

All help greatly appreciated.

Steven


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## TheNomad

As an aside: yes you are right that they are clearly mandatory here in Spain.

In practice just about 1% of the motorhomes that I see here actually have them.


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## Penquin

*Not *required for France, but SOME MH have one as they indicate the rear of the overhang.

Spain accepts plastic or aluminium boards, Italy requires the aluminium one. The aluminium one is of course, made by an Italian firm (Fiamma) as are many of the plastic ones. The aluminium are much more expensive. ODB prices; aluminium £27.49 c/w plastic £6.00. Both of which are good prices IMO.

http://www.outdoorbits.com/cycle-rack-accessories-c-156_202_204.html

We only put one on when we are intending to go to Spain.

Dave


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## stevegos

Thanks. No need to buy one just yet.


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## chiefwigwam

No


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## Grizzly

They're not mandatory in France but are a good thing to have wherever you are. They make your van much more visible to following traffic - especially at night and in poor visibility. They also - and we have seen this in action - stop pedestrians or cars bumping into your cycle rack and then moaning to you.

We have ours on whenever we have the bikes ,wherever we are. We've used the cheap plastic Fiamma one for years in all countries, including Italy and Spain. We checked that it was OK when we were in Italy and were told that if it had the 4 reflective 'cat's eyes' then it was fine and the material it was made from was not important. When it became faded and a bit too battered we replaced it with the aluminium version.

Use one - even if it is not compulsory it is a good idea.

G


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## Penquin

For information of all concerned; here is a little piece of the Italian motoring laws;

"_Art. 361. Pannelli per la segnalazione della sporgenza longitudinale del carico (art. 164 C.s.). 
I pannelli quadrangolari per segnalare sporgenze longitudinali del carico da installarsi alla estremità della sporgenza ai sensi dell'articolo 164, comma 9, del codice devono corrispondere al tipo indicato nella figura V.3 e devono avere una superficie minima di 2500 cmq. Detta superficie deve essere rivestita con materiale retroriflettente a strisce alternate bianche e rosse disposte a 45º. 2. Il pannello di cui al comma 1 deve essere visibile sia di giorno che di notte. A tal fine sulla superficie del pannello, costituito di norma da lamiera metallica, deve essere applicata pellicola rifrangente di classe 2, sia per le strisce bianche che per quelle rosse. 3. Quando il carico sporge longitudinalmente per l'intera larghezza della parte posteriore del veicolo, i pannelli di segnalazione devono essere due, posti trasversalmente, ciascuno da un estremo del carico, o della sagoma sporgente. 4. In ordine alla fabbricazione, prova e omologazione dei pannelli di segnalazione previsti dal presente articolo si applicano le disposizioni dell'articolo 192 (1). (1) Comma così modificato dall'art. 204, d.P.R. 16 settembre 1996, n. 610."_

Which that nice friendly Mr Google translates as;

_"Art 361. Panels for signaling the longitudinal projection of the load (art. 164 Cs).
The rectangular panels to report longitudinal protrusions of the load to be installed at the end of the ledge under Article 164, paragraph 9 of the Code must match the type shown in Figure V.3 and must have a minimum area of 2500 cm ². *This surface must be coated with a reflective material stripes alternating red and white *arranged at 45 º. 2. The panel referred to in paragraph 1 must be visible both day and night.* To this end, on the surface of the panel normally consists of sheet metal, must be applied reflective film class 2, both for the white stripes for red ones. *3. When the load protrudes longitudinally for the entire width of the rear part of the vehicle, the signaling panels must be two, placed transversely, each from one end of the load, or the protruding shape. 4. With regard to the manufacture, testing and standardization of signaling panels provided for in this Article shall apply the provisions of Article 192 (1). (1) Paragraph amended by art. 204, Presidential Decree September 16, 1996, n. 610. "_

so that is what the Italian law states from what I can understand there is a requirement for *THE WHOLE SURFACE *to be reflective and *NOT* just four reflectors attached...... the plastic one only has 4 reflectors, whereas the aluminium one is entirely reflective.

BUT it seems very odd that Fiamma, an Italian company, would make and sell plastic boards that would not be legal in their own country.....

There are many such posts on many other sites saying that aluminium is the required one as Google will quickly demonstrate........

But if you are not stopped there will be no problem, ever.

I can only suggest what you can read......

Dave


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## Grizzly

Penquin said:


> BUT it seems very odd that Fiamma, an Italian company, would make and sell plastic boards that would not be legal in their own country.....
> 
> Dave


Indeed so Dave, which is why we went to some trouble to find out what the regulation was the last time we were in Italy. We asked at a large motorhome dealers and accessory shop near Modena, explained what we understood the regulations to be ( ie aluminium only ) and if we should change our plastic one. We were told, quite categorically, that so long as we had the plastic version with the 4 red reflectors ( as well as the red stripes) this was perfectly legal. What would not be legal was the plastic version with no reflective buttons, that you still see occasionally. I'm sure if he had been in any doubt he would have suggested we buy the aluminium one from him though he also had the plastic ones.

We were still not entirely happy ( though that was our umpteenth trip into and through Italy with plastic boards and no problems) so asked at a clubhouse for Italian motorhomers run by CamperClub Adriatico and the concensus of the members was that ours- with 4 reflective buttons- was fine and perfectly legal. It does have the relevant regulations printed on the back of it.

As I said above, when we had to renew the plastic one we bought an aluminium one. So far it does not seem to have faded as the plastic one was beginning to do.

Given the doubts over the whole matter I would buy an aluminium one if doing so from new but, if I had a roadworthy plastic one I would continue to use it.

G

Edit:I will write to Fiamma and ask why they sell the plastic ones if they are not legal.

Edit again:

No need: This from the FAQs section of Fiamma website:

http://www.fiamma.com/EN/service/faqs/

_Q - The plastic signal for protruding loads (Plastic Signal Item No. 98782-005) can be used in Italy?
A - Unfortunately Plastic Signal is not approved in Italy and therefore does not meet the requirements of the law in force. The Alu Signal (aluminium) is approved by the Italian Ministry of Transport and is therefore suitable. _

Still doesn't explain why they still sell them however !


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## barryd

Grizzly said:


> They're not mandatory in France but are a good thing to have wherever you are. They make your van much more visible to following traffic - especially at night and in poor visibility. They also - and we have seen this in action - stop pedestrians or cars bumping into your cycle rack and then moaning to you.
> 
> We have ours on whenever we have the bikes ,wherever we are. We've used the cheap plastic Fiamma one for years in all countries, including Italy and Spain. We checked that it was OK when we were in Italy and were told that if it had the 4 reflective 'cat's eyes' then it was fine and the material it was made from was not important. When it became faded and a bit too battered we replaced it with the aluminium version.
> 
> Use one - even if it is not compulsory it is a good idea.
> 
> G


Sorry Grizzly and I am not trying to be facetious (well a bit  ) but I fail to see how a little red and white square will make my huge massive white motorhome more visible to the numpty behind me. If they cant see a 10ft by 7ft white brick then they shouldnt really be driving!


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## Grizzly

barryd said:


> Sorry Grizzly and I am not trying to be facetious (well a bit  ) but I fail to see how a little red and white square will make my huge massive white motorhome more visible to the numpty behind me. If they cant see a 10ft by 7ft white brick then they shouldnt really be driving!


Fair point Barry but, in poor light, driving rain or darkness even your white brick can merge into the background and a nice glowing red and silver patchwork can make all the difference. Every little helps !

G


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## Webby1

*Chevron Board*

Steve we are also off on our first MH trip to France next week. After much thought I have decided to try to match all the supposed requirements "just in case" as I couldn't bear to have my day ruined by some smart assed official pointing out the letter of the law (which technically is the law I suppose)

So we have the plastic chevron board for Spain,(I might even try it in Italy as I get more confident)............2 triangles, shiny jackets in the front of the van,breathalyser kits, and today got some cycling helmets for Spain.

The great thing about this forum is giving me the confidence to know I am "standing on the shoulders of giants"...............and I'm not the first person to go to Europe in a motorhome ?????

Good luck and safe traveling.


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## Penquin

don't forget the spare bulb kit required for France, first aid kit for Germany, the original V5, the original Insurance Policy, MoT certificate if applicable, some would say current VED disc (but there is controversy over that......) and your driving licence (both parts if you have a photoID card - but make sure it is valid as they are only valid for 10 years I believe).......

and if you wear contact lenses take spare glasses, and if you wear glasses you must have a spare pair to the current prescription....

By the time you have got everything in, there may not be a lot of room for such items as the bottle opener..... and food - but of course that is readily available in most parts of France, Spain, Italy, Greece etc.....

Enjoy your respective trips - we did and do, hence why we now live in Southern France......

Dave


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## cronkle

I did this list out some time ago. You might find it useful.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-69031-legal-requirements-abroad.html

The breath test kit technically is still a requirement in France but it appears there is now no mechanism to impose a fine for not having one.

The first aid kit is another arguable one in that it often only applies to the vehicles registered in the country where it is necessary if you see what I mean - just as easy (and perhaps handy) to have one anyway.

A nice odd one is that, when I last checked, you have to have a wheel chock if you go to Estonia.


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## RichardD

I have a towball mounted Thule rack with additional rear lights and number plate. 

Do I need to have the warning plate?

Richard


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## RichardD

I have a towball mounted Thule rack with additional rear lights and number plate. 

Do I need to have the warning plate?

Richard


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## Penquin

If the back of the vehicle is marked with the lights I think the answer is NO, since the red board is required to indicate an overhang, IMO the lights etc. means that there is no overhang.......

BUT I cannot guarantee the legality of that response - it is just a gut feeling........

If PC Pedro wants to have a go in fluent Spanish, they undoubtedly will and my logic may not apply then......

Dave


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