# Otto pays a visit



## Otto-de-froste

A very good day to all of you

For those of you who have known me, interacted briefly with me, or even just read my posts in the past, you will know that I have not posted on MHF since late 2010.

***To the moderators
This is largely about my dealing with Prostate Cancer, which is why I have placed it here, but please feel free to move it elsewhere (or bin it) if you don't think it is appropriate.

2004 - I was 52 years old, fit, 30" waist, head of brown hair, was told I looked 42, and in all modesty I probably did.
Blood in the urine was the first and only indicator - and after going through loads of eliminating tests, the final conclusion was aggressive prostate cancer with no prospect of treatment.
(T4A, with a Gleason score of 5 + 5).
My circumstances from then have been posted on MHF since I joined in 2005, so I won't go through them again.
Just suffice to say I was eventually given radio therapy followed by ongoing Prostap injections, and made such good progress that my PSA level went down to 0.2, and remained in that region for several years.
My oncologist advised that I would probably die of something else, and that my cancer was no longer considered life threatening.

2012 - I am 60 in a couple of weeks time, in pain, tired, 38" waist, very little hair in a kind of undistinguished scruffy grey colour, I look 60 ish, and feel?
Pain, sadness, frustration, fear, anger, injustice, resentment, a fair bit of self pity.
In early 2011, I went for my annual check; which was supposed to have been just a telephone consultation as I had been doing fairly well (though I had not felt generally healthy for some time).
Because of raised PSA levels I went to Chesterfield Royal and was told that the PSA level was not to be concerned at, but that a constriction in the urethra should be opened to make it more comfortable for me to pass water.

Oddly enough, when I went to see the urologist, he never noticed the two masses that were so evident on my urethra, that I had felt them when 'peeing'.
Thinking it was just scar tissue from previous camera work, I had nominal concern, as I was being told by the medical people that I was doing exceedingly well.

When they started to grow, and hurt I went back; and it was eventually determined after numerous CT and MRI scans that they were in fact new masses.

The Hyena was back in the room, and this time had no intention of skulking off.

By Christmas, I already suspected that I would not be getting good news.
I had gone on sick leave in November because of the hospital visits, general health, emotions (you name it)
Never had time off sick before, except for 4 days when they did biopsies in 2004.

Christmas was a crap time for me, really, seemed like my family didn't really realise what I was feeling, and I was trying not to spoil their time. It was really just me and my little wife.

In January I was given very low dosage radiation to the affected areas, at Sheffield Weston Park.
It doesn't appear to have had much effect, and I am no on steroids as the Prostap is no longer effective (though I still have to keep having the 3 monthly injections???).

Judging by the way I feel, it would appear I'm getting all the side effects of the steroids, but not a fat lot of anything else; so the next step will be some form of chemotherapy, which I am assured will not make me feel too bad (mmmm - why do I suspect that will be a load of tosh?)

After that???? - well they said I could have that new wonder drug that some authorities are not using (aberitone).

So I am looking at 12 to 24 months, with no clue of how much of that time can actually be deemed as quality time.
Looking at body language, listening to what was not said; and finally reinforced with my own propensity for looking at the flip side of everything; I don't think the Hyena is planning to wait that long for lunch.

LIFESTYLE
I am back at work
Why????? are you crazy??

Well - yes I am

I have nothing else to do (not that I can really do)

We have very few savings, no pensions, had to sell our motorhome last year, moved to a little bungalow with so many problems it depresses me just being here.

My company are absolutely brilliant - I work at home all the time, but keep the company car (well y'know - for the foreseeable)
I walk from the bedroom to my little study, and sit at my PC reviewing paperwork.
Why the heck couldn't I have found this company and this job 10 years ago?
I can honestly say they are the absolute best H&S Consultancy, and best employers in the UK - both professionally, and personally.

My wife works two nights as a nurse in a miserable, smelly, grubby, dilapidated, poorly managed, couldn't give a rats a***e Nursing Home
Otherwise known as - a Nursing Home
She hates it, but needs to retain a job for the future, as she now has to work till 68 thanks to the financial mismanagement of people in governments and financial institutions; who instead of retiring on fat cat salaries should be stripped of everything they have, and given a few Big Issues to sell.
Having suffered with various health and mobility issues of her own, she fell in late 2010, breaking her left knee, and being incapacitated for nearly a year
She had a new left knee in May last year, with debatable success.
But her right knee still dislocates, and she can stumble and fall quite easily; and relies on me to support her when walking out, negotiating steps, kerbs, grass etc.
Snow means (housebound)
There are other health issues too now, which will never get any better

Q. So - how's she going to manage without me?
A. I haven't a clue

Two sons - now realise how serious my condition is, and they do care; but they have their own wifes, families, friends, commitments.

Friends?
Not a lot to speak of
I meet up occasionally with a guy I used to work with; but we are not friends as such (as two couples to meet up socially)
Never been good at making or keeping friends
Don't know why - used to pray about it - a lot
Don't bother with that stuff anymore - Not enough evidence coming my way to suggest there is anybody / anything there that actually gives a toss

Used to be a fired up born again christian (or maybe I just thought I was, but really wasn't in the exclusive members club that has clearly existed in every church we have been involved with)

I have gone to church all my life, served at the altar, sung in the choir, played the piano, driven buses, decorated, cleaned, given crazy money, prayed for and supported other members
But we were always marginalised - never invited to homes, to parties
We just weren't christian enough

Been going on and off to a local baptist church over the last year or two, and to a degree they have offered help with hospital transport, and a bit of prayer (when requested)
Otherwise nothing - no social interaction, phone calls, emails, no visits, no invitations
Impressed??
Nah....not really

MIND SET?
We all have to leave this planet the same way, so there is nothing that I will go through that you guys won't
So - am I frightened? - well yes I am a bit - don't know what will be next - if anything
I'm much more concerned though about how my wife will manage alone

I had an email from Asprn before christmas, and Rowley came over to see me; which lifted my spirits a lot more than he perhaps suspects
I thoroughly recommend that you meet him if you get the chance

I'm done now
Just wanted to say some final goodbyes to you all; but really do mean it when I say I don't want to enter into any more posting, so I will permit my membership to lapse now.

I could wish you all kinds of good things, but have probably already bored you senseless - so since you are all motorhomers
HAPPY MOTORHOMING.

Special good wishes of the very best to those with Prostate Cancer.

Going over to the corner now to discuss any final dining arrangements with the Hyena.

Here we go for the last time


:wink: TT :wink: de FR :wink: STE


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi.

I don't know what to say, other than I am very sorry to read of your illness, and to wish you as much luck as possible.

Brought me to tears.


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## rosalan

No friends?
What about all of us lot?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and although you believe that you are taking a lonely route, none of us will be that far behind you, for we must all take that same route sooner or, as we all hope, later.
I am sad that you do not wish to keep in touch, for your lifetime of experiences may well interest and enlighten us.
You explain your feelings clearly and it would be nice to hear of your adventures in the past and perhaps for you to enjoy recalling them.

Alan


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## locovan

Otto
You have summed it up for all us cancer Sufferers.
I know just how you feel and the questions you ask yourself.
I dont know how my Ray will cope without me but above all else I cant thank him enough for the love and kindness he shows me as he cares for me when Chemo knocks me off my feet, or when I have a crying moment but also a laugh as my hair is falling out now.
We had more devastating news yesterday that i have blood clots now in my lungs and he immediately volunteered to do the injections for 6 months so we didnt have the District Nurse in everyday--I want to go camping so he will be able to administer them so we can go camping.
But also the Chemo isnt working this time so we to have got to face up to things.
You have to have a positive mind and I say dont give up your MHFacts membership because you will find the friends you so need at this time.
Here you can pour out your feelings and someone will listen.
It has got me through the last 3 years --3years that they told me I didnt have when they diagnosed mesothelioma.
But I showed them that 3 months wasnt for me, they cant put a time on it as they dont know.
Go out and do all the things you want to do.
Im sure others will be able to write on here their good wishes so enjoy having cyber friends around you xxxx


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## seamusog

Thanks for sharing that Otto, I hope you will reconsider and post when you can, be sure that you have many freinds in here, lots of kindly people (and then there's me  )who would love for you to keep in contact.
kind regards 
seamus.
I have sent you a pm.


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## litcher

Otto, I'm sorry things aren't going well for you. Please stay - you have friends here to talk to. You don't have to feel you are facing things alone.

Viv


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## carol

Don't just go away and disappear Otto, we may not have met, but I know I have kept the members, like Mavis and Peter and Fiona in my mind and heart and know, from both Mavis and Graham how much the list has meant to them and has helped them in their darker moments

Use the support that is here, cyber friends can be just as useful as those real people

I do hope you will consider staying, and perhaps you wife may find it useful to join as well, to give her an outlet for her worries to people, whom she may never meet. We can help in a small way at such times, just let us

Whatever you do I wish you well, and go kick that hyena where it flipping hurts, and really really hard, a bit like Mavis did, don't just give up

Much love

Carol


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## Pollydoodle

Otto

Please stay. Here you can pour out your heart and worries and KNOW that you have people who care about you.

A friendly word can mean so much when you are down

I will be thinking of you and your wife


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## sallytrafic

Mavis has beaten me to it I was going to set her on you 

Otto its very sad to hear and I fully understand how you feel about your wife managing. I have no way of knowing your income and your expenditure but there are people who can help with that both in knowing their way around the benefit system and giving you new ideas about reducing your expenses. So that when you eventually go your wife will be perhaps in a better position than you now imagine. Tell your family frankly of your worries you never know what they might come up with.


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## teljoy

Otto

As others on here have already said you have many friends. Ones like me who doesn't say much but read a lot. Your post also brought me to tears. I know you are being brave but please don't stop posting. There are probably things you can tell us that might just make you feel a little better. Do keep in touch. I don't know what faith I am but I am damn well thinking of you!

Terry


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## Briarose

Otto I can't say anything that will make things better for you.

What I can say is you are a member here that I know in the past found help from MHF......the lost wedding ring always sticks in my mind.

Maybe Nuke would consider extending your membership for free, allowing you to visit and post whenever you felt the need. I am sure the support from Friends here would help you considerably especially as so many other members are going through similiar situations. Sometimes it helps to spill out feelings to people outside of your family and situation.

Take care my thoughts are with you. And please stay around.

Nette xxx


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## raynipper

Hello Otto,
Think positive all you can and don't isolate yourselves from friends and family.
We have lost 6 close friends in the past 12 months and now regularly have 4 widows who are helped by us and others. We dine, accommodate, advise, laugh and help one another with technical and practical problems. 

Stay in touch.

Ray.


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## wooly

+1 Maybe Nuke would consider extending your membership for free, allowing you to visit and post whenever you felt the need. I am sure the support from Friends here would help you considerably especially as so many other members are going through similiar situations. Sometimes it helps to spill out feelings to people outside of your family and situation.
Beat me to it


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## bognormike

Hi Otto, good to hear from you, even if it's not in the best circumstances. 
Keep plugging away; my Viv is nearly up to 5 years since her diagnosis, and is thankfully OK at the moment (gone to the gym this morning!), we don't know how long any of us are going to last, make the most of what time you have


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## JockandRita

Otto,

You have been on here since the big crash back in 2005, (and possibly before), along with so many of us.

I personally have no life experiences of suffering from a serious or terminal illness, or having lost a close family member or a loved one to it either...........yet, so I am no authority on the subject, nor on the emotions that must be flooding through your mind and heart, but I would please ask you to reconsider staying here with us.

If it wasn't for the likes of yourself and others too, on the Prostate cancer threads, I would never have learned about PSA testing, etc, and made the appointment. 

Your emotional and heart rendering post above, has taught me something again today, and I do so admire you for having the confidence and strength to share your dilemma with us.

Please reconsider, and stay where you are listened to, are able to share your darkest moments, and know that in doing so, you are amongst friends, many of whom you may never know, but whom care about you and your wife.

I look forward to seeing your subscription extended to March 2013................and beyond.

Kindest regards,

Jock.


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## julie1

Hello Otto
I read your post earlier this morning. I was so moved I didn't know what to say. I couldn't stop thinking about what you must be going through so I've come back just to say try and stay strong and don't give in.
I can see already that there are lovely posts of support from people on here which I hope you will find comforting.
Please stay on the site. 
The Citizens Advice Bureau are very good at helping people through the minefield of the benefit system and I'm sure you will be entitled to monetary help.


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## dawnwynne

Otto,

I remember so much of your postings and at this time when you are feeling so alone, I can only echo the sentiments of everyone else, please reconsider and use us, we are all here for you and your wife. 

I also hope Nuke gives you a free membership so you don't have to worry about that and you can visit whenever you feel the need. 

Thinking of you!


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## Otto-de-froste

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

I was not going to do this, and kept telling myself to let sleeping dogs lie

But you guys won't leave anybody alone will you???

I said it was my last post because my membership is about to expire - not because I can't afford it

I can afford it - we're not destitute - just having to be sensible with our finances for the future

All I wanted to do was say a dignified goodbye, without eliciting any response
How fanciful was that?


Now - thanks to certain busy bodies, we have discussed our future prospects at length, and are going to do again what we did in 2005 

AND BUY ANOTHER VAN

It won't be new, and will be cheap, and will be something that can be sold on easily in around 2 years time
We will no doubt have lots of problems with long trips, setting up etc

It's a step of faith (in ourselves, in our own resolve, in our combined strength, in our own determination not to let this B*****d have it all it's own way) and also a step of faith in you (though it seems that you have already shown your colours)

However:
DO NOT ASK US TO BUY YOUR VAN
1. It will be too much
2. We want to trade in Mrs de Frostes ridiculously useless Honda Jazz that doesn't understand the concept of being an automatic, requires a degree in rocket surgery to operate the simplest of controls, and has a hand book that eclipses manuals of many FM companies
So we need to find a dealer foolish enough to transact

There are folk on here I blame fairly and squarely for forcing us into this position

And now I have to pay my subs I suppose

I love you guys, and thank you with all my heart

PS I'm not responding to any personal messages cos I have work to do; bu thanks anyway

O


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## raynipper

YESSSSSSSSS...!!!!!

Ray.


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## rosalan

Yee Hah! Ride 'em cowboy!

Alan


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi Otto,
If Nuke does not give you free membership send me a pm.

I do not normally read threads on Health& fitness but I recognised the poster.
It did take nme a while to realise that Otto-de-froste was really auto defrost
Nearly eight years ago we had a tragedy in our familly, lost our son grandmother an uncle and a brother in law within three months.
I thought the world had ended. I supose at that time and for a few years after I did a bit of moaning and was greatly helped thro my depression by several members on here who had also lost a child. 

Keep a positive mind and I wish you and your good lady well.
If it brightens your day for a few minutes keep posting.

I have enjoyed reading your posts and the one that springs to mind is this one. 

As a member of The Sunday School Brigade 

I see no reason why anyone would object, and can't see how it could be offensive 

Naturism isn't for me though; only because I wouldn't want to inflict my natural state on unsuspecting onlookers 

We once stayed at a hotel in Jamaica, which was just down the beach from a naturist area 

"Paul, Paul!" said Mrs de-froste "It's disgraceful! I want you complain to the manager because I was able see some men without their clothes yesterday afternoon, and again this morning" 

The manager visited whilst SWMBO was out, and asked me where she was looking, and I replied I hadn't seen anything, and after half an hour stood on the balcony the manager said 
"I'm sorry, but there is no way your wife could see naturists from this room" 

SWMBO came back just then, and climbing onto the top of the wardrobe, grabbing the curtain and leaning out of the window, she said "Well you can from up here!" 


Dave p one of your many friends
EDIT.
Your last post was on its way as I was typing this.

Well done, great descision.DP


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## locovan

Otto-de-froste said:


> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
> 
> I was not going to do this, and kept telling myself to let sleeping dogs lie
> 
> But you guys won't leave anybody alone will you???
> 
> I said it was my last post because my membership is about to expire - not because I can't afford it
> 
> I can afford it - we're not destitute - just having to be sensible with our finances for the future
> 
> All I wanted to do was say a dignified goodbye, without eliciting any response
> How fanciful was that?
> 
> Now - thanks to certain busy bodies, we have discussed our future prospects at length, and are going to do again what we did in 2005
> 
> AND BUY ANOTHER VAN
> 
> It won't be new, and will be cheap, and will be something that can be sold on easily in around 2 years time
> We will no doubt have lots of problems with long trips, setting up etc
> 
> It's a step of faith (in ourselves, in our own resolve, in our combined strength, in our own determination not to let this B*****d have it all it's own way) and also a step of faith in you (though it seems that you have already shown your colours)
> 
> However:
> DO NOT ASK US TO BUY YOUR VAN
> 1. It will be too much
> 2. We want to trade in Mrs de Frostes ridiculously useless Honda Jazz that doesn't understand the concept of being an automatic, requires a degree in rocket surgery to operate the simplest of controls, and has a hand book that eclipses manuals of many FM companies
> So we need to find a dealer foolish enough to transact
> 
> There are folk on here I blame fairly and squarely for forcing us into this position
> 
> And now I have to pay my subs I suppose
> 
> I love you guys, and thank you with all my heart
> 
> PS I'm not responding to any personal messages cos I have work to do; bu thanks anyway
> 
> O


Good for you thats the right idea buying another Motorhome and enjoying what you love best Traveling.
I bought 10 tops yesterday and 2 pairs of trousers --you have to make a future as nobody knows how long they have but you can enjoy the time doing lots of good things. :wink: :wink:


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## aldra

Now Mavis that really is going over" the top" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good for you Otto and don't forget to visit us on EMBirds 

Aldra


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## asprn

Paul,

I'm humbled by your honesty, and absolutely delighted you're staying.

This quote by John Schaar resolved some basic things for me. I reflect on it often, and find it quite releasing.

Your friend,

Dougie.

_The future is not a result of choices among alternative paths offered by the present, but a place that is created - created first in the mind and will, created next in activity. The future is not some place we are going to, but one we are creating. The paths are not to be found, but made, and the activity of making them, changes both the maker and the destination._


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## Briarose

Brilliant news.........the Dunkirk spirit. And just to add I thought Nuke might give you free membership as you hadn't got a MH ! Now you had better just pay like the rest off us !!! Joking and very glad to read your latest post.

Also reading the quote from Dave....it might be worth you writing a similiar book to Pussers rofl.


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## Phil42

What an extraordinary 'club' this is! It never ceases to amaze me how honest, open and brave people are about some truly dreadful problems that they are trying to deal with. And how quickly and thoughtfully others come on and support them, sometimes drawing on their own traumatic experiences but often just wanting to let the OP know that they are not alone, however they may feel. It's a privilege to be a member of such an organisation.

Your name didn't mean anything to me, Otto, but it does now and all I can say is that I am lost in admiration of your bravery and will not forget about you.

Phil


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## JockandRita

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> It did take me a while to realise that Otto-de-froste was really auto defrost.


Me too Dave, if I am to be honest. 

Just this once, I'd like to shake the hands of the "busy bodies" whom had an influence upon your decision to stay Otto. Nice one. :thumbright:

Glad you saw sense. 

All the best,

Jock.


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## MrsW

Otto I have never met you but have read your posts in the past and had missed you. I am so sorry to hear that your prostate cancer seems to be rearing its ugly head again, but this does not mean we don't want to see you on here. I hope you can see that you have e-friends on here who will be here to support you as well as we can come what may. Just get on and renew your membership, get that new van and get out and make the most of the life you have. You may think you only have a couple of years, but in honesty who amongst us actually knows when their time will come to move on? 

I am a nurse and if there is anything I can do to help you please feel free to pm me. I know France is quite a way from you, but none the less there is lots that can be done over the airways. 

Stay well and enjoy life whilst you can!


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## Otto-de-froste

Thank you so much everybody

I can't respond individually, but I can say that each and every response has been read, and read again

Some of you were brought to tears - so sorry. That was never my intention

And that started me too


With this kind of condition we get ups and downs
positive days when we feel like fighting
negative days when we just crumble

We will find a van - and soon
That has been the main reason I stopped posting


Just on a medical note (since this is the health forum)
Two lumps grew:
One on the urethra, just outward from the prostate (this can be felt by hand), and one under the pubic bone
There is pain and discomfort
I self catheterise twice a week, but it doesn't cause any distress.
Other than that I don't have any significant symptoms

The steroids have made me eat like a horse (and unfortunately fart like a horse too)
Not a good condition in a small MH
Mrs de f will need to go in the awning

Sharing my renewed hopes and aspirations with you will do so much to keep us going

Lets not let this go on too long now guys

We know its there, and now we want to talk about other things

So we'll catch up on the other forums eh?


O


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## asprn

Otto-de-froste said:


> The steroids have made me eat like a horse (and unfortunately fart like a horse too)


:lol:



Otto-de-froste said:


> Lets not let this go on too long now guys... We know its there, and now we want to talk about other things ...So we'll catch up on the other forums eh?


Me lips is sealed. 

Dougie.


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## rosalan

Mine too but if........... sorry! :roll: 

Alan


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## bigbazza

Good decision Otto, I didn't realise why you had disappeared but I had noted your absence from the forum.
I came on here a few years back and one of my first readings of health problems was when Mavis informed us of her bad news. I remember writing a new topic regarding her health and feeling that I had over stepped the mark with something so personal.
That wasn't the case as it turned out and just look at the fighting spirit she has shown us all.
I'm sure that if you take a similar attitude you can only benefit from the additional fight you add to your lifestyle.
All the very best Paul, and don't forget your cyber friends are all united in the positive outcome of your future welfare.


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## sprokit

*Otto*

Otto

Like many others before me, your post brought a tear to my eye.

We've not met, but, if you're out and about, which I sincerely hope you will be in the very near future, and you see a Hymer with a stupid blonde stuffed dog on the dashboard, come and say hello. I'd be proud to shake your hand.

I'm pleased you've decided to stay, well done to those before me who helped persuade you there are friends (albeit cyber friends - at least until we meet) who care and wish nothing but the best for you.

Stay strong, be positive and above all, enjoy your travels.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## julie1

Hi again Otto
How fantastic to read your last couple of posts. Good on you. Keep on focussing on now and have a great time. 

My regards to Mavis as well who posted earlier and truly knows what you are going through.


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## aldra

Sprokit

You should not refer to yourself as a stupid blond stuffed dog that is willing to shake hands and say hello :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


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## Tucano

Otto,
You very kindly wrote me a PM a number of years ago after my wifes death and I was cheered by the response of others on this forum also at that time.
We all have a great circle of friends here and it really helps to know that we are not alone.
My best wishes to you and your family, enjoy the 'new' van when you get it.
Norman.


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## Gretchibald

Total admiration. I am the same age as you and in good health but when that starts failing as it inevitably will, I will think of your post on here, which I have printed and saved, for inspiration to be as courageous as you.


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## Sonesta

Hi Otto,

I have Just read your thread and was delighted to see that the responses to your post have brought you so much positivity.  

Buying another motorhome will be the best tonic you can give to yourself and your wife and if you come along to some of the many MHF rallies and meets, you will find the friendships you forge brings you both so much joy and happiness. Ask Mavis just how much attending these meets and rallies means to her and Ray and I can guarantee she will be the best advert ever for getting back out on the motorhoming road again! Uncle Norm too, has the same medical problem as you and he too goes all over in their motorhome and like Mavis; he regularly attends the rallies and meets with his wife Sandra. He is also a MHF rally organiser too and I know he derives immense joy from organising a rally and meeting up with friends both old and new. 

We are all here for you Otto and you need never feel alone whilst we are all around I promise you. 

Hope to meet up with you in the near future and remember miracles can and do happen! 

Love & hugs.

Sue x


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## rowley

Hi Paul, what a super response there has been to your post. Do you think that we can all look forward to Sue's love and hugs?

It was good to meet you, and your wife, earlier in the year and put a face to the name. I will be in touch again. In the meantime, hang on to that wonderful faith that you have.
Best wishes, Rowley.


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## Otto-de-froste

'morning Rowley
It's a bit grey over this side today, but looking south over Chezzie and the crooked spire I see a glow of sunshine over your side of town

'morning everybody else

I'm not really surprised at the response I have had from you all

When our vulnerability and fragility are suddenly, and unexpectedly revealed, we are generally put straight on the 'back foot'; and it takes a lot of reassurance to turn ones countenance round from negative to positive
And there are days when at best it hangs in neutral

You all have done so much to get me looking in a positive direction

And even though today I feel dog rough, and washed out; I know in my heart of hearts that it's Gods way of saying -
"Don't drink half a bottle of Bells, and then expect to wake up coherent!"

We will start looking for vans this weekend, and hope to do a quick transaction

Future plans?
1. Do Spain - we never got there before
2. Do rallies (MHF)
3. Maybe be permitted to organise a meet
4. meet up with as many of you as possible and give you a hug (or just a warm manly handshake if that's more in your comfort zone)

5. Keep doing the above till I'm 80


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## catzontour

Otto-de-froste said:


> Lets not let this go on too long now guys
> We know its there, and now we want to talk about other things
> So we'll catch up on the other forums eh?
> 
> O


Just had to slip this last word in. I tend to be a "reader" rather than a "poster" because everyone else seems to say all the things I want to say far more succinctly than I ever could, but I felt really moved to respond to your original post on this thread and wanted to join the ranks of those wishing you all the best.

Enjoy your next motorhome.

Catz


----------



## Briarose

Hi Otto

How exciting to be back out looking for a motorhome, and even more exciting to be using one again.

I guess you already know that the Newark show is on this weekend......unfortunately we can't go as I have to work Saturday. But many others will be there on the MHF area, why not call in you might get that hug from Sue earlier than expected :wink: 

I am sure there will be many cuppas on offer for you, and lots of advice on MHs. I can highly also recommend Camper UK as a dealer.


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## rosalan

If we are lucky enough to see you at Newark show in a couple of days time, look out for us and we should have a cuppa waiting for prospective buyers like yourselves and perhaps we can swap ideas, for we too are going to the show looking for a van.
My wife is Rosalie and I am Alan..... picture of present van on the left.

Hope to see you there!  
Alan


----------



## Sonesta

I ditto what Alan says Otto and my kettle will be on also. I also have a bottle of bells onboard somewhere, so if you fancy a wee dram then I'm sure we can find you a glass. 

Hope to see you over the weekend.

Love & more hugs.

Sue x


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## rosalan

I will take two bottles then :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Alan


----------



## Briarose

rosalan said:


> I will take two bottles then :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> Alan


Can anyone come lol. Sue might even get her raclette out :wink:


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## busterbears

Hi Otto,

Read your post before breakfast this morning (catching up) and drove up to Edinburgh to work feeling sad and despondant that you felt so low, isolated and bereft of hope. The sun shone and a few lovely shiny motorhomes passed me by, the sun making then sparkle, and I thought, Otto needs the sun to shine on him and his wife for while, to warm you and give you hope. I'm so glad to read you've found some strength from the mh family and are making plans. I hope the sun shines strongly on you from now on and you get your sparkle back. If you ever see our 'buster bus' (name sign and buster teddy bear on the dashboard) chap the door, we'd love to say hello. Take care of yourselves. 

Michelle


----------



## Sonesta

Briarose said:


> Can anyone come lol. Sue might even get her raclette out :wink:


No chance of me getting the raclette out Nette as we're not on hook up. We will have the bbq out though if this weather keeps up, so will that do?

Sue


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## Otto-de-froste

Hello all

So very sorry

I have to tell you that I am experiencing pain, and changes rather quicker than I was expecting after consultation with my oncologist

It's clear that I would not be able to drive the 40 miles to Newark, and certainly not the return journey
Factoring in the walking around etc just makes a nonsense of trying.

Being alone only adds to the risk.

I also have a duty of care to other road users, so please forgive me if I raised a few hopes unnecessarily.

However this is by far eclipsed by the fact that we have had to make some serious evaluations of my health status, and anticipated life expectancy based on what each successive day brings.
We have also had to look at things like secondary expenses (excavating and surfacing the frontage, sale of a vehicle when the time comes).
Even if I were able to manage a van in the warmer months, for the rest of the time it would sit on the front.
This is not a good use of our finances, considering that my wife's health may preclude her from working in the future.

Therefore we have had to accept that another van was just a pipe dream; and in retrospect not one I should have shared with you; bearing in mind how much energy and emotion you have put into encouraging us.
So I extend sincere apologies for any hurt this has caused; and I truly am uplifted by all the positive responses, and feel so bad for throwing your kindness back.

I will stay on MHF for this year, and will maybe post from time to time, but will be content for motorhoming to be a spectator sport for us from now on.
On the positive side, at least we could have afforded one (of sorts), so to quote Keith Michelle 'This time we almost made it......'

Kindest regards to you all

Paul


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## raynipper

Oh Otto (Paul) so sorry you have had to come back down to earth. But I like your idea of motorhoming being a 'Spectator Sport'. Yes been there for a while and can understand.

Will just keep fingers crossed and hopeful thought for you and Mrs. Otto.

Ray.


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## julie1

Hello Paul
I'm sorry to read your recent post and please don't apologise. There is nothing wrong with having pipe dreams, they are what keep most of us going.
Look after yourselves and keep us posted.


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## Briarose

Aw my thoughts are also with you. We all get carried along on dreams and hopes at times.....but if this helps to raise your spirits somewhat I see no harm in that. Keep posting a burden shared is a burden halved x


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## carol

Paul I am sad to hear things seem to be moving too quickly and do understand your rethink. 

Keep reading, and do post especially if you need cheering up 

Love

Carol


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## catzontour

There's nothing wrong with having a dream, and if it doesn't or can't materialise into reality it's just one of those things.

Best wishes
Catz


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## aldra

Paul

just keep posting

We are all behind you

and with you're sense of humour we can only benefit from knowing you

and maybe we can help in return

Aldra


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## carolgavin

Just caught your post today and was glad to see you back here. Have always wondered how you were getting along.
Sorry to hear you will not be now getting a van but with or without one here you have listening and supportive friends. 
Post when you can, warm regards
Carol


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## MrsW

Sorry things are not so good again Otto but hope we keep you amused enough to make it worth your while to stay a member and stay posting. Not getting the MH actually sounds quite sensible in view of what you've told us but it's always good to dream! We'll be thinking of you both, stay poitive!


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## aldra

Paul

if you could manage a week or so in the warmer month's

We are not far away, could maybe put you on our insurance or take you both in the van and leave you where you want to be

available July and August, no cost , Pm me

Aldra


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## Otto-de-froste

Hi
Saturday evening

Wife on nights

Not likely to be going out on the razz with all my mates 
Not likely at all

TV holds no interest anymore, so thought I would just note that I have posted an ad to sell my left over MH stuff.

I really just want to get shut of junk now, and get our home manageable for my wife.

If you know anyone who may be interested in the stuff please pass it on.

For the beans - it wasn't a pipe dream to buy another van; we were absolutely serious about it, and had even lined some appropriate vehicles up.
Had I not noticed deterioration in how I felt, and increased pain it is more than likely that we would have made an offer on one of them.

We have decided to get rid of the stupid Honda Jazz, and buy a nice ergonomically simple to use Skoda Fabia (OK it's the VRS - we can't just roll over and keep lowering our hopes and aspirations).

Gonna have a beer and play my piano for a bit (can life get more exiting than that?) (no - seriously - CAN life get more exiting than that? It sure as Hellmanns beats me).

O or P or whatever


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## Briarose

aldra said:


> Paul
> 
> if you could manage a week or so in the warmer month's
> 
> We are not far away, could maybe put you on our insurance or take you both in the van and leave you where you want to be
> 
> available July and August, no cost , Pm me
> 
> Aldra


Aw that's a lovely and very kind offer Aldra.


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## aldra

It is just a van

Does not compare with a person

I hope Paul could make use of it

he will be more than welcome

Its new and comfortable otherwise I would not have offered it

Aldra


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## Otto-de-froste

Hello Aldra

I have sent a personal message to you

However I can't let this selfless offer go unacknowledged on the forum

This has totally hit me for six; and your kindness, and trust go beyond any reasonable expectation

As I stated in my personal message, I have only sought to find a few friends to share with on MHF - and to discuss motorhoming from time to time too

Aldra................and all of you who have cared so much

I just value your comments, your care, your love so very much
That's all I can ask of you, and all I would take

But you all, each and every one of you have a special place in my heart, and whatever happens now over the coming months, I will always have one little part of my heart thinking of you guys

Would that we could have all met up at school instead of remotely through a website

Paul


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## aldra

Lovely Paul

But the offer still stands

and I think you have a lot of friends on here

and I would like to feel, if you felt up to it, that you could spend some time on holiday in a motor home

Take care

Much love

Sandra


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## Briarose

Yes meeting up at school would have been good.......but then would we all have been the people we are today. Oh my goodness in my school days I would never have imagined ever being able to talk to people like this on a website. I was thrilled when my Friend next door and I had some toy telephones from Woolworths, and we were able to talk to each other in our bedrooms. Mum and Dad didn't even have a phone in those days. How times have changed.


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## Otto-de-froste

You know - my friends - I should be in bed now - I'm completely whacked, and have probably had one too many scotches.
But then I could hardly make things a lot worse, so a little of what you fancy eh?

As I have said on this forum before, Rowley (bless him) has met me. He has credentials that can easily be corroborated, and therefore he would, I hope be able to reassure you that I have always shown my true colours on the MHF site.
However it is becoming a bit like one of these day time TV programmes that seek to entertain by showing the seedier, lonelier, disenfranchised side of life of people that maybe would have been better off never opening a can of worms for the public to critique.

That's how I feel I have handled all this.

The absence of physical friends; for whatever social, historical and maybe logistical reasons is not truly satisfied by the use of chat rooms, web pages et al.

It may be OK for a teenager, but I'm almost 60, with a family, a profession, a home.
I shouldn't be doing this.

I'm exhibiting myself, and more importantly I am compromising you good people; and please believe me when I say you all deserve far better than that.

I fear that others who are able to read this may not be so hospitable, and may be getting some obtuse satisfaction from reading the things that I have poured out.
I have been a victim too many times, and really would do better to just fade out of the picture rather than have the potential to
1, Hurt those who care for me
2, Satisfy those who just want the dirty low down

I decided over a year ago not to post again, and went through the gamut of people asking me to stay albeit for very altruistic reasons.

Now I am getting kindnesses I just can't handle, because I'm not used to it.
Call it pride, arrogance - what you will, but I just don't have the capacity to handle those kind of things, and don't feel worthy.

In the past I have shared various issues with many of you, either as individuals, and collectively.
I am a real person, and I am a genuine person; but I'm not a perfect person, and I often use this medium to portray myself in the light I would like you to see me in.

Though I would never dream of hurting anyone in any way, I cannot always be relied on to make the right judgements, and could therefore be guilty of suggesting I am a much better individual than I really am.
And that has been proven to be a significant shortfall in cyber friendships.

I have permitted this to become far too deep, and to pull out things from the bag that would have maybe been best left in.

I hope that the things I have shared regarding the prostate cancer, and my ways of dealing with it may be of help and enlightenment (though I doubt encouragement) to others.
I hope that my excursions into the other areas of MHF have been of use, edification, humour, entertainment to others.
I know I have been given loads of help and guidance on MHF - so it has been good to share with you all.

I expect you know what I am saying here.

I have no van
I have little expectation of an active lifestyle in the short to medium future
I have an expectation that things are moving faster than I had hoped
Aside from the common enthusiasm for motorhomes, there are few other common denominators
.
See - all the 'I's - that's a clear sign of insular perspective and inherent selfishness; and I'm shortsighted enough not to recognise it has been me all along that has prevented the making and developing of friendships.

It was unbelievably selfish and foolhardy to start all this again after such a long time, and I realise now that I have done little but cause distress for caring folk, who deserve much better than this.

I'm so very sorry; for taking advantage of you. I do acknowledge your kindness, your compassion, your genuine love and care.
I do know it is for real.

But you have your own lives, families, worries, commitments.

Yes our health is important to us, but you need to enjoy your vans, and get back to discussing more wholesome things like, what your kids, pets, mother in law have done.
How your fridge seems to keep beer warm when you desperately need a cold one.

I'm dragging you folk into something you have no moral or ethical reason to be involved with, and as I said earlier, the fact that you care is all I ever hoped for.
You have exceeded my hopes and expectations, and for that I am - simply very grateful.

Tearing through France at near warp speed in the old Bessie was good.
Waking up in a new place was good.
Saying hi to a neighbour, and arranging a beer or two was good.

It isn't to be any more, and I need to accept it.

I don't just want to go with out saying just a couple more things:

1, Faith - I have said that I have lost my faith - well if it's a comfort to those of you who believe in God - I still believe - though I do have a long ways to go to get back into His good books (and touche to Him if He thinks I'm a happy bunny). No doubt we will exchange words in due course

2, I can never, ever compare anyone I have ever met with the people I have encountered on this site. Such love, care, affection, support (I could go on - and do all too often).
You are truly lovely, lovely folk.

I wish you all a long and happy life, prosperity, fantastic health, friends, happiness and security.

Pax vobiscum

It has been an absolute honour knowing you all, and sharing with you all.

I beg you please not to ask me to stay, or to send me PMs and sad goodbyes; I think this time I have outstayed the welcome, and I have nothing constructive to bring to the forums anymore.

Sorry it didn't work out, but will think of you all often with affection.

Don't know if the big fella will like me saying it in light of the spat we've been having, but..............

God bless 

Otto has left the building


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## asprn

Paul,

You're extremely fragile, you're very vulnerable, and you regret opening up here in the way you have. I hope everyone reading what you've written will respect that and not try to push or pull you in whatever direction we feel is best. Only you can decide that.

Where you're not correct though is assuming the feelings of the rest of us regarding what you've said. I can say this on behalf of everyone else here without a single fear of contradiction. You have not upset, hurt, angered or bothered any one of us, not in one slightest Hadron's atomic-particle-breadth.

Unconditional acceptance by people - especially strangers - has been singly the hardest thing I have had to learn, after a parallel history to yours in evangelical circles where that idea is often talked about but seldom practised.

For those of us here who truly do care about you and your wife - which we still can do to some meaningful degrees despite not having met you both - we don't see you as you imagine we see you. So whatever decisions you've made or will make regarding this group of your friends, please base them on what we tell you we feel, rather than what you imagine we feel.

Try applying the faith process here to us (a belief in things unseen, a hope of things to come etc). You won't need to question that faith, because we'll still be here for you, in sickness or in health. 

Your friend,

Dougie.


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## aldra

_I am a real person, and I am a genuine person; but I'm not a perfect person,_

Thank goodness for that Otto

If being on the forum doesn't work out for you for whatever reason then you have a right to leave it, I will be sad but respect your choice

As long as you understand you are dragging no one to where they do not choose to be

We are all free to engage or not in any post

And the day we cease to care about other peoples distress is the day we cease to live in a meaningful way

You most certainly have not outstayed your welcome

It is a difficult time for you and your loved ones

Take care

And the big fella will understand completely

May he hold you and yours and keep you" forever in the palm of his hand"

Aldra


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## JockandRita

Otto (Paul)

Dougie and Sandra have said it all for me, however, would just like to add, that as it was, (and still is) your decision to "leave the building", we must respect your decision.  
But you have to take into account that it was, (and still is) our decision to show support, thoughtfulness, care and kindness, etc, whilst conveying a sense of belonging to you and your wife, and equally so, you must respect our decision too. 

If we didn't want to be involved, we wouldn't have read your posts, nor replied to them.

Meant in the nicest possible sense, with kindest regards to you both,

Jock (& Rita).


----------



## locovan

Otto-de-froste said:


> You know - my friends - I should be in bed now - I'm completely whacked, and have probably had one too many scotches.
> But then I could hardly make things a lot worse, so a little of what you fancy eh?
> 
> As I have said on this forum before, Rowley (bless him) has met me. He has credentials that can easily be corroborated, and therefore he would, I hope be able to reassure you that I have always shown my true colours on the MHF site.
> However it is becoming a bit like one of these day time TV programmes that seek to entertain by showing the seedier, lonelier, disenfranchised side of life of people that maybe would have been better off never opening a can of worms for the public to critique.
> 
> That's how I feel I have handled all this.
> 
> The absence of physical friends; for whatever social, historical and maybe logistical reasons is not truly satisfied by the use of chat rooms, web pages et al.
> 
> It may be OK for a teenager, but I'm almost 60, with a family, a profession, a home.
> I shouldn't be doing this.
> 
> I'm exhibiting myself, and more importantly I am compromising you good people; and please believe me when I say you all deserve far better than that.
> 
> I fear that others who are able to read this may not be so hospitable, and may be getting some obtuse satisfaction from reading the things that I have poured out.
> I have been a victim too many times, and really would do better to just fade out of the picture rather than have the potential to
> 1, Hurt those who care for me
> 2, Satisfy those who just want the dirty low down
> 
> I decided over a year ago not to post again, and went through the gamut of people asking me to stay albeit for very altruistic reasons.
> 
> Now I am getting kindnesses I just can't handle, because I'm not used to it.
> Call it pride, arrogance - what you will, but I just don't have the capacity to handle those kind of things, and don't feel worthy.
> 
> In the past I have shared various issues with many of you, either as individuals, and collectively.
> I am a real person, and I am a genuine person; but I'm not a perfect person, and I often use this medium to portray myself in the light I would like you to see me in.
> 
> Though I would never dream of hurting anyone in any way, I cannot always be relied on to make the right judgements, and could therefore be guilty of suggesting I am a much better individual than I really am.
> And that has been proven to be a significant shortfall in cyber friendships.
> 
> I have permitted this to become far too deep, and to pull out things from the bag that would have maybe been best left in.
> 
> I hope that the things I have shared regarding the prostate cancer, and my ways of dealing with it may be of help and enlightenment (though I doubt encouragement) to others.
> I hope that my excursions into the other areas of MHF have been of use, edification, humour, entertainment to others.
> I know I have been given loads of help and guidance on MHF - so it has been good to share with you all.
> 
> I expect you know what I am saying here.
> 
> I have no van
> I have little expectation of an active lifestyle in the short to medium future
> I have an expectation that things are moving faster than I had hoped
> Aside from the common enthusiasm for motorhomes, there are few other common denominators
> .
> See - all the 'I's - that's a clear sign of insular perspective and inherent selfishness; and I'm shortsighted enough not to recognise it has been me all along that has prevented the making and developing of friendships.
> 
> It was unbelievably selfish and foolhardy to start all this again after such a long time, and I realise now that I have done little but cause distress for caring folk, who deserve much better than this.
> 
> I'm so very sorry; for taking advantage of you. I do acknowledge your kindness, your compassion, your genuine love and care.
> I do know it is for real.
> 
> But you have your own lives, families, worries, commitments.
> 
> Yes our health is important to us, but you need to enjoy your vans, and get back to discussing more wholesome things like, what your kids, pets, mother in law have done.
> How your fridge seems to keep beer warm when you desperately need a cold one.
> 
> I'm dragging you folk into something you have no moral or ethical reason to be involved with, and as I said earlier, the fact that you care is all I ever hoped for.
> You have exceeded my hopes and expectations, and for that I am - simply very grateful.
> 
> Tearing through France at near warp speed in the old Bessie was good.
> Waking up in a new place was good.
> Saying hi to a neighbour, and arranging a beer or two was good.
> 
> It isn't to be any more, and I need to accept it.
> 
> I don't just want to go with out saying just a couple more things:
> 
> 1, Faith - I have said that I have lost my faith - well if it's a comfort to those of you who believe in God - I still believe - though I do have a long ways to go to get back into His good books (and touche to Him if He thinks I'm a happy bunny). No doubt we will exchange words in due course
> 
> 2, I can never, ever compare anyone I have ever met with the people I have encountered on this site. Such love, care, affection, support (I could go on - and do all too often).
> You are truly lovely, lovely folk.
> 
> I wish you all a long and happy life, prosperity, fantastic health, friends, happiness and security.
> 
> Pax vobiscum
> 
> It has been an absolute honour knowing you all, and sharing with you all.
> 
> I beg you please not to ask me to stay, or to send me PMs and sad goodbyes; I think this time I have outstayed the welcome, and I have nothing constructive to bring to the forums anymore.
> 
> Sorry it didn't work out, but will think of you all often with affection.
> 
> Don't know if the big fella will like me saying it in light of the spat we've been having, but..............
> 
> God bless
> 
> Otto has left the building


Those that read my blog know Im travelling faster down my road than I had hoped and my Chemo is hurting me and not curing me (my latest session on has been awful) so I understand every word you have written.
Dont feel you are talking to much on here as we have such wonderful friends in MHF so you chatter as much as you like. 
You need somewhere to talk so make it here -I do my blog each day that is my salvation.
Good Luck my friend xxxx


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## raynipper

Ray............


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## teljoy

Otto

Please don't feel that you are burdening us with your posts. You are most certainly not and if it makes you feel just a little better for sharing your thoughts with us please continue to do so. Not all of us can express our feelings so eloquently as you but we can encourage you to continue your fight.

Terry


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## Briarose

Otto 

All I can say is we are here for you if you need someone to talk to. Whether that be on the forum, email or pm. I also respect that, that is your decision to make and not ours.

Take care my thoughts, prayers and best wishes are with you always. 
Nette


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## MrsW

Otto you will remain in my thoughts and prayers whether you continue to post here or not. As a nurse I would never just walk away from a patient in need and would certainly do no less on here. I, like many others on this forum, will continue to be here for you if you want any one to talk to (or rant to!!). It can be very difficult living through what one believes to be their last few months or even days, but please be aware we are here, un-offended by anything you have posted and keen to offer whatever support we can to you and to your wife. As others have made clear, we are all here if you choose to contact us. Meanwhile I can only hope and pray that the days and weeks ahead will bring you peace and not pain. God bless you!


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## 747

Hi Otto,

We never met or interacted online but I wish you well and like all the other members, I am praying for a change in your fortunes.

In your opening post, you said you felt that you had never found a Church that was welcoming or caring in the true Christian spirit.

Well, you have found one here mate.  

Some members are are not Angels, some are Angels with dirty wings and the odd one is a true Angel.

I have to go now, my nose is running and my eyes are streaming. Damn hayfever. :wink:


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## Tucano

Otto, 747,
This hay fever is infectious  
Take great care Paul, friend ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Norman.


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## Phil42

I can only echo what others have said. I cannot believe that anyone can possibly have taken offence at what you've written. Personally, I've found what you've written deeply moving and even inspirational. We all need to be reminded from time to time that what matters is the here and now. If someone in your situation can be so clearly trying to make the most of your time then there's no excuse for any of us not to follow your example.

You're actually helping many of us, Otto, just as we're doing our best to help you. That's another reason why we hope you'll keep talking to us if you can.

Keep playing that piano, BTW!

Phil


----------



## carol

*Update*

I thought to update folk

I have been in contact with Paul (Otto) to ask how he was, and he was happy for me to update the forum.

quote:

I'm quite happy for you to update people if you wish

Basically, I had felt pretty rough, and had decided to bring my oncology appointment forward
The oncologist reaffirmed what his colleague said a few months ago 
Prognosis is 1 - 2 years 
On the plus side my PSA has dropped to 0.5, but this is really arbitrary now

If I could be sure it would be 2 years +, we would probably buy a van and spend every weekend away

unquote

He has decided he will not revisit MHF, although everyone was helpful, but that was his choice.

I am sure we all wish him well and if I hear anything further I will let you know

Carol


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## carol

Has anyone been in touch with Otto and have any unto date news please. I don't live close to him, but do think of him often

Carol


----------



## MrsW

Sadly not heard anything from him.


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## carol

He's not been on since April, not visited and I don't have any other contact ino I can find. Just worried as he sounded terribly lonely

Carol


----------



## rowley

I last spoke to him in May. As we were going on our separate holidays around that time it was agreed that we would get in touch afterwards. I am afraid that we are now in October and I have not been in touch. 
Thanks for the reminder, I will contact him and let you know how he is getting on.
He was a bit more optimistic in May than he was in February.


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## rowley

Sorry folks for delay, I did speak to Paul and he is holding his own although he did have a problem whilst on holiday and was rushed into Hospital. He did think that he might post an update on here. I have been away from MHF for a few days so I might have missed it. Hoping to see him sometime over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## Gary1944

I for one really hope he does get back in touch. I only found this thread this morning and after having read through all the comments by Otto and others I really, really want to hear how he is doing. I too have Prostrate Cancer. Mine is a very mild form, only found after an operation for an enlarged Prostrate. 3 years on from the op I feel fine, and the PSA count is still low so no worries there. Then I read the comments from Otto and it makes me so ashamed to be happy. The operation wasn't nice, wearing a damned catheter wasn't nice, and the recuperation wasn't pleasant. But how unimportant it all is compared to the brave way Otto has handled his problems. I don't suppose ashamed was the right word to use above, but it is what came to mind, and I can't think of a better one at present.

Please Otto, get back in touch. We all need someone to look up to, and for me you come pretty close to the that person. 

If anyone is still in touch then please let him know how much his comments meant to us.

Thank you,

Gary.


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## carol

I emailed Paul (Otto) after posting here and here is his response



> Hello Carol
> 
> Good to hear from you.
> 
> Sounds like you have been on an extended tour?
> 
> We are still doing reasonably well, but I do tend to feel a bit rough most of the time; I'm working full-time and we are finding time to spend with family and friends.
> 
> I haven't been on MHF, but I do think of all the nice folk I have communicated with from time to time.
> 
> We almost bought a 2nd hand motorhome at the end of August, but after driving 100 miles each way in our car, we realised that I just don't have the stamina to drive, let alone all the setting up and service; so we had to reluctantly cancel the purchase. We lost our deposit, but it was better than making a more expensive mistake.
> 
> Please give my very best wishes to all on the forums.
> 
> Kindest regards,
> 
> Paul.
> 
> Unquote
> 
> Carol


----------

