# Tracker RS 130 Euro 6 underpowered?



## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

Just took delivery of our new van a few weeks ago and I'm both thrilled and disappointed.

This is only my second motorhome and compared to our Peugeot Boxer this new van seems very underepowered. 

It can't maintain any speed in 6th gear, the slightest gradient results in the need to drop 5th and use plenty of refs to maintain speed.

Can anyone help please or make some suggestions as I am very worried. We go to France soon and this could spoil our holiday.

Thanks,

David


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## Lancs Steve (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi David

The engine in our Hymer Exsis is the Euro 5 version - on paper the Euro 5 and 6 seem identical, 2.3 litre, 130 bhp, 236 foot/pound torque. We happily cruise at 60/65 mph in sixth gear in this country on the motorways, in France (with their steeper gradients on motorways) sometimes have to change down to 5th. 

So unless they have changed the gear ratios I'm at a loss to know why you are having problems!

Steve


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Does the base vehicle have the same engine as your Peugeot or is it a Ford or Mercedes? 
What's the weight of your current MH compared to the old one? 
If it's significantly more that could answer your question, also Euro 6 is all about emissions and to hell with drive ability or economy. 

What sort of speed are you trying to maintain in sixth?? 
If it's 50-55 then you are probably going to be out of luck because the engine probably won't be revving fast enough to be at its maximum torque, forget BHP that's a meaningless figure really, what you need to find out is at what revs your Euro 6 produces its max torque compared to your old Euro 5 MH and what road speed those revs provide. Don't forget your MH is basically a "white van" and is designed to be thrashed by"white van man" not potter along like most MH's do.

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Andy, (Mr Plodd) has it spot on, remember it's a Motorhome not a car, it is probably not far from it's max weight, you need to be in the right gear for the road conditions, I tend to drive more to the rev counter than the speedo, don't labour the engine, if it slows down change down.


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## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

Thank you for the replies. The only van I can compare to is my old 2011 boxer and I don't actually know what torque it had is it may have been re-mapped. It seemed rather sluggish at firstt (it had 7k on the clock), then got better the more miles we put on it. Also the old van was lighter and not as tall so probably less drag in the wind.

target speed is 60. I've noticed it revs around 2k but the power seems to kick in slightly above that. Reminds me of the power and on a motorbike.

I will do some more testing at 70 and see how it oerforms..

I need to close the gap between thrashing machine and pottering potential. I do think we should have gone for the 150bhp option now I have driven her a bit. Really hoping she improves as we put the miles on her (still only 600 on the clock).

Regards,

David.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well with only 600 miles on the clock you are most certainly NOT going to get the full performance yet.

I have had a number of new cars and on every single one there has been a marked improvement after 3K miles. I have speculated that there is some programme in the ECU that limits the power output up until that point!!

You can always have yours remapped for the higher output.

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think you're just expecting too much, check where the current power band is and stay within it, change down for hills and you'll get used to it very quickly, I had a 07 2.2 120bhp, it had more than enough power to pull us up the steepest hills, but the gearbox is there for more than just getting to your top speed, it'd there to help go up steep roads and gently inclines too, 6th is an overdrive, 5th is the old top gear so I'd expect to drop to 4th fairly often, but keep the revs below 3k.


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## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

Thanks for the info everyone. 

I have installed a tuning chip that seems to have given it a change for the better. 60 in 6th is more responsive and the mpg on the display is on the up. Managed to get 28mpg on a test dive rather than 25 without the chip.

Add to this a possible increase as the miles tick over and will be fine.

I feel much better now. Thanks for the good feedback and info.

Regards.

David


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## SteveRallye1 (Nov 29, 2016)

Hi, don't want to rain on your parade but will the rechip invalidate your warranty


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

These "Tuning chips" usually are simple plug in devices that alter slightly the information that a small number of sensors send to the ECU. That altered data causes the ECU to (usually) deliver a bit more fuel.

They are cheap because they only alter the Data by a pre-determined amount that fails to take into account the large number of other variables that the ECU takes into account. Thats why they are cheap.

A much better system is s "re-map" where the ECU is "taught" that for this particular engine, at this particular road speed, with this particular throttle position (along with another lot of variables such as intake air temperature and engine temperature) it should provide this amount of fuel, at this instant, to give extra power and/or better economy. The software for a Decent re-mapping is a highly sophisticated thing which is why it costs so much more than a "chip" Like everything in life, you really do "Get what you pay for" when it comes to this sort of thing.

A "tuning chip" is a very crude device in comparison to a re-mapIt's one advantage is that it can be removed prior to the vehicle going anywhere near a garage!!:wink2: I am reliably informed by someone "in the know" that an ECU re-map cannot. be detected during the course of regular maintenance/servicing but it CAN be detected if someone really goes looking for it (but it's not easy)

I ran a 3 litre Fiat based MH that had been re-mapped by the previous owner, it really flew AND gave excellent mpg BUT there was so much torque available at fairly low revs if it was clogged at low revs in a high gear clutch slip was very common! A quick down change was needed!

I had a pal who ran a VW Touareg, he tried a tuning chip and then a re-map on the same engine. He reckoned that the chip gave him a bit more power over a very narrow rev band and the re-map transformed the engines output to provide much more torque from much lower revs all the way to peak revs (and improved his mpg but only slightly) Another has an Autotrail Navajo, he has had his re-mapped and reports outstandingly better "driveability" 

If it was my engine I would ALWAYS go for a full re-map.

Andy


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't know a great deal about remaps and so on but I've always assumed that there must be a trade off of some sorts. I can understand if performance increases (acceleration, torque or whatever) and there is a worsening in fuel consumption but when I read about everything getting better then I start to wonder how that is possible. Maybe it's wear and tear on the components (e.g.clutch) that is the trade off?


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## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

Great information, thank you.

I have been to a local garage to see if the van could be re-mapped and it can not be done yet. They are going to contact me when the code is available.

They have the engine variants avaible now for the Euro 6 Ducato 2.3 - 130, 150 and 180. I do wonder what physical difference the engines have. The 150 and 180 has a different turbos I think? 

I'm wondering if I should go and have the van tested with and without the chip to see what results it actually is delivering. You can send it back within 28 days if you are not happy. It was £350 so that money could go towards the re-map. 

When the remap is available it's going to be rather difficult to resist but I'm quite sure if you take it in for warranty work Fiat will find it!

This does all go back to the motor home show and not having all the correct information. If I'd have known all this back in September I would have gone for the 150 or even the 180 upgrade. 

You really never stop learning with motorhomes.

Regards,

David


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

That is a VERY expensive "Tuning chip" a decent re-map will cost about the same, (Search Google for "Wow Tuning" My last MH had been remapped by them at it really flew even when fully ladened and towing a car on a trailer) as I said its VERY difficult to detect an ECU re-map unless you know what you are doing and go searching for it.

As far as Peter's questions are concerned the manufacturers have no way of knowing what use a specific chassis is going to be put to, so they programme the ECU to give the best overall compromise across the range of likely uses.

What a (decent) re-map does is to alter everything to give the best all round performance for what YOU want on your particular vehicle. Some want better economy, some what better top end power and some (like MH users) want better torque over as wide a rev range as possible. Like I said its a pretty complex procedure so you do need an expert.

Think in terms of a racing bike, you can buy one "off the shelf" which will do everything adequately, but if you want the very best you need a custom made bike, same with an ECU, a specialist map will give you more of what you (rather than the manufacturer thinks you) want.

Andy


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## SteveRallye1 (Nov 29, 2016)

Yes all very well but does it affect the vehicle warranty, I would have mine done if it does not.


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## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

Thank you for the info Andy, things are moving on rapidly here!

Chip removed and going back for a refund.

Had a http://www.quantumtuning.co.uk remap done by a local garage. I think it was the Blue option.

Only driven it a couple of times so difficult to say what the results are. It seems to be more responsive but won't know for sure until I have a longer run.

I just hope that's a 'descent' remap. Fingers crossed!

Regards,

David


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## BazeyUk (Jun 3, 2017)

On investigation, the Wow Tuning link forwards to http://www.quantumtuning.co.uk so I guess I struck gold?

Regards,

David


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