# What is Standard Health Care In Europe ??



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Just a thought , the new EHIC card which replaces the E111, states that we are now entilted to the same level of health cover as a local and includes pre-existing conditions, as we are all getting older it appears some of us are getting more of these ? which is causing problems arranging for private health insurance to cover us ?

I thought as we have a number of members from various countries it would be helpful if we could obtain a list of the STANDARD level of cover that they expect from there health service's, so we know what we are entilted to when and if we need it ? 

Brian


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I'm interested in replies to this too so am putting it up to the top

Please reply someone... !

G


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi,

I will help to keep it up - my impression after suffering a severe thrombosis in France a couple of years ago that it is a bl....dy sight better than we get here.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

(This is copy and paste)

Western Europe is the healthiest region in the world, new rankings of health systems show. But the survey, which places the US and UK relatively low, suggests that spending a lot of money is not enough to guarantee high standards of health.

The survey of the health status of people in 175 countries, released on Monday, ranked nine Western European countries in its top 10, with Belgium heading the list followed by Iceland, the Netherlands, France, Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Italy and Norway.

Australia is the highest placed non-Western European country in the list, in joint tenth place with Germany and Denmark. The United States was ranked 17th, just behind Israel, while the UK came in 23rd place, after Greece.

The index measured the health status of individuals by looking at the amount each country spent on its people's health and at health indicators including life expectancy, infant immunization rates and death rates of mothers and babies. It was developed by World Markets Research Center, a company that analyses businesses.

(So things actually do seem to be improving :roll: )


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, everyone i have attached a link below which will allow you to check your entitlement in each country .

http://tinyurl.co.uk/fhnu

i hope the link works

Brian


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Brian; this is a useful link. this time I've bookmarked it !

G


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

Hi everybody, well just to let you know that here in Italy, when you reach the dreaded bus pass age, everything is free.
I need permanent drugs for a TIA, and just take the old box along to the surgery receptionist and then pass by later to pick up my prescrition, run along to the chemist, and they hand it over to me.
At the local hospital/clinic all necessary examinations/tests or whatever are also free of charge.
Even before 65 all my medication was free, but for examinations had to pay a
token 'charge' - depending on the complexity of the examination between 25 - 30 Euro a time.
Waiting lists for specialist appointments vary between 3 - 6 weeks max.
I think anyone visiting Italy would find emergency and general medical services pretty efficient, with the odd local black hole in the deep south.
saluti, eddied


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Hi Everyone,

As a health professional I'm not going to get involved in the various statistics. I'm only too aware of how they can be compiled to reflect what ever they set out to show.

My field is Trauma, and I don't think the UK would be blowing it's own horn if we were to say, that in the UK Emergency Health care is "probably" the best in Europe.

I know about waiting times in A&E etc. What I'm talking about is life threatening conditions. If you are injured in your motorhome (God forbid) on a motorway, a state provided Ambulance will arrive with highly skilled professionals who will treat on scene. You will then be taken to A&E were you will receive immediate health care.

I may be biased and wait to be shot down LOL


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Stewartwebr

The original question was not posted to condem or compare health services, it was to make things clearer for everyone on what and how to obtain the standard level of health care in the country they visit?, and to put people with pre-existing conditions that can't be insured, at ease.

I think if you check out the web site that i posted you will see that ?in certain counties if you don't show the EHIC card before you are treated ?? or point out that you want the state system, it could cost you a lot of money _(all because you took the wrong door). _

I hope it doesn't happen but i can see a situation when you have Travel health Insurance that only covers you for certian things (or excludes some pre-existing conditions) that you could find yourself taking the insurance route only to find that your pre-existing condition was causing the problem, it is therefore nice to know that if this did happen you or someone with you can ask for the rest of the treatment to be undertaken through the EHIC system

The information you have provided will i am sure help fellow members from outside of the UK to what they can expect (god forbid) they have an accident here.

Brian


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Sorry Enodreven, :roll: 

I was just pointing out that it is difficult to compare levels of health care when all member states provide different levels of care. You cannot compare apples and oranges!!!!!!

Stewart


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

That is a fair point Stewartebr but talking to Brits living in France and Spain it is obvious to me that the NHS that we pay much dosh into is sadly lacking overall compared to our European cousins. I have also been in French hospitals 3 times mainly with children or grandchildren and maybe flukey but these hospitals were absolutely spotless, immediate attention on all three visits, parent beds next to the childrens bed, food unbelievably good and I understand this is all for less than what we pay.

But not just hospitals, home doctors even in Spain have investigative equipment on site so that for many problems a visit is not even necessary to the hospital.

While in UK there are I suspect good hospitals and bad ones but even the good ones are well behind the French for example.

Take one issue. Key hole surgery. This has been going on in Europe for many years and only British doctors did not bother to go to France when it was first used to learn how to do it and consequently, a lot of us, including me, have a 12" scar because of their apathy.


Then we look at survival figures for e.g. breast cancer and stuff. We are well behind. 

I am not rubbishing the people who work in the NHS as I personally know it is very hard work and difficult because of the restraints on equipment and funds available but just because we have hard working people in our hospitals does not bring them up to European standards.

This is a shame because I understand up until the 60's 70's maybe we probably led the world in this department and the NHS has been systematically destroyed by politicians most of whom have private medical cover.

A further point. Does anyone remember politicians asking us if we want mixed wards. Does anyone think it is fine that an old lady of 90 should be in bed with a male each side of her while her incontinence pads are changed. This is total disregard for the users of the NHS and quite honestly there are a few people who should be stood up against the wall and shot.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I've resurrected this post to add this which I feel supports my concerns about Health care in this country compared with other Western countries health provisions.

Copy and Paste:_

'NHS lapses cause 2,000 deaths'
Article date: 03/11/2005 08:42:50
NHS failures led to 2,000 deaths in English hospitals in 2004, according to a watchdog. 

A further 980,000 incidents of patient safety were also reported, the National Audit Office (NAO) reveals. 

The number of incidents including deaths is higher than was estimated, but could be even greater because many of the events go unreported. 

A survey undertaken of nearly all the NHS trusts in the country found that 2,081 deaths were reported between last April and March of this year. 

'There needs to be significantly faster progress at the national level in ensuring effective evaluation of numbers, types and causes of incidents,' Sir John Bourn, head of NAO, told the BBC. 

'And lessons and solutions must be better evaluated and shared by all organisations with a role in keeping patients safe.' 

The government has said that the NHS needs to learn from the mistakes, estimated to have cost £2bn a year, that have resulted in these deaths.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Over the last few years I've had 10 days or so, in 2 stints, as a patient in an NHS hospital. I could have written a book about them, such were the things I witnessed directly, or heard second hand through being within earshot of a nurse's ward station.

The fundamental problem is not with the sharp end, where, like our armed forces at the sharp end, standards of the utmost professionalism are generally upheld, but with the support that precedes and follows it. In a public sector organised NHS, the whole system seems staff-centred, rather than patient-centred, and it loses totally the focus that comes with all staff appreciating just whom it is pays their wages, or that their "customers" have a choice to take their custom elsewhere. Communication seemed awful, and bizarrely far too often dependent on the patient correcting mistakes, challenging assumptions, etc. before things got out of hand. 

More recently, in dealing with my 83 year old mother suffering from MND, brothers with bladder cancer and MS, and a close friend with bladder cancer, I can certify that surrepticious health care rationing is alive and well. And, frankly, why should we be surprised? NHS policies and culture have to deal with the reality of doing their best for a nation overall within political affordability constraints. Why should I presume that coincides with what is best for me, or my nearest and dearest? 

Alison is under instruction that if I am in an NHS hospital but not alert to who is doing what to me during all waking hours, she is to get me transferred to a private hospital and raid the piggy bank. I simply value my health and survival too much. This is in no way critical of any or all NHS staff, rather one of the unreformed system as buggered about by central state control.

However, fear not, dear voters, because many years ago Tony took personal charge of NHS reform, so everything should be getting much better by now. And remember that if, as he implies but daren't admit, Gordon stopped him doing what he really wanted to do, think what you have to look forward to in the next term.

Sorry for going off at tangent in this thread, but it sheds light on the wider picture behind Pusser's reporting of statistics that have been in the papers this week.

Dave


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I am thinking that one of the measures to decease waiting times and to make patient beds available is to kill off 2000 patients thus leaving 2000 beds free to meet government targets on waiting times. Of course, it will not belong before Hewitt sees that by doubling these figures waiting lists will deminish rapidly partly due to increases of bed space and partly due to patients killing themselves in the comfort of their own home rather than let a third party get involved.


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## 96772 (Nov 22, 2005)

Last year, before I took early retirement and moved over here, I'd been in perfect health, never met my local doctor, never a day's illness. Then I broke my collarbone and three ribs (a week in Carlisle A & E), had a heart attack (two weeks in Birmingham City Hospital) followed by a minor stroke (a week in Walsall Manor Hospital). For each emergency incident, the standard of NHS hospital care was excellent. However, in the case of the stroke, there was a six week wait for a doppler scan, so I paid for it to be done privately. Also, a fortnight just to get an appointment to see my doctor is laughable. Even then, he was no help, really - I had to hustle him to even take my blood pressure!

Waiting times are virtually non existent here in France. I get a doctor's appointment same morning and my checkup consultations usually take about half an hour (ten minutes in the UK).

He also sent my wife for a full medical checkup at the local hospital (we went round there straight from his surgery and got it done whilst we waited). My wife went back the following morning for an ultra scan (fasted) and they gave her a nice breakfast on a tray afterwards!

Healthcare in France is first class - albeit at a price. I pay about £500 a year for health insurance for both of us (paid £1200 when I had BUPA). The French insurers even give me a discount for the heart problem because its 100% funded by the state and therefore they've no outlay!

.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

Whilst in France I had a small blood vessel burst in my eye. I got private treatment in a few days and it cost just over €1500. The same treatment in the UK, according to NICE, costs £6000. 

They may pay a lot more taxes but their system is far better than our system, both private and public.


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## stuffed2 (May 9, 2005)

all the above makes me ask do we need holiday insurance cover whilst in europe , 

If we are ill will the e1 whatever cover it
if we are robbed or lose something will our home insurance cover it

and breakdown cover ?


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

stuffed2 said:


> all the above makes me ask do we need holiday insurance cover whilst in europe ,
> 
> If we are ill will the e1 whatever cover it
> if we are robbed or lose something will our home insurance cover it
> ...


E111 won't pay for re patriation if you are seriously injured .. eg. in an RTA 
It won't provide or pay for a chauffeur to drive your van home if your partner can't drive. 
It will give the same service you are entitled to at home.. no more.. no less.

Home contents insurance may cover some items if they are specifically listed, but it wont cover credit cards or money.

UK Breakdown cover varies when travelling abroad, you would need to 
check.

Just a few examples why comprehensive travel insurance is purchased.

>>Dept of Health<<


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## IrishMike (May 1, 2005)

Hi,
Just some info on the HEalth systm here in Belgium.
Having lived in the UK for 12 years and here for five I have to say I am glad I moved. The first time I was ill here We called a local doctor out of the blue. He arrived at my house later in the morning and gave me the once over perscribed some medicine and left the bill. it was about 12 quid ! And then i got about 8 quid back from the insurance,
That felt good.
But later it gets better,
My son was born by a slit and zip in Bedford hospital just before we left the UK and one day after the operation they wanted the bed because they were busy. Here for a normal delivery the normal time is 5 days in hospital. for the slit and zip it is min 9 days. But I am wandering off the subject, We needed the maternety unit here when my wife was next pregnant and it all went wrong. It require a three day stay in hospital in a private room. cost 100 Euro with 75 back. But more important was after, there was the monitoring and when there was a small blip in the checks.. So appoint ment to see the cancer specialist 30 mins. Treatment starts the same day.
We have had many instances like this that shows what a well funded service is able to do. 
I have the greatest reaspect for the staff who work in the NHS but no matter how good the individuals are the whole system is very under funded and until the people wake up an demand real changes not just sticky plasters it will not change.
There are costs here being very high taxes, Compulsory medical insurance ETC. Also have to pay some portion however small has an effect
So if you get sick on holiday do it here!!


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## 97753 (Feb 17, 2006)

*what is standard health care in*

Well living in Bulgaria i was wondering what what the health care here would be like and i have to say that it puts the uk to shame . It might be 20 - 30 years behind the times but ive got no complaints . Just to give you an idea bearing in mind we dont have health insurance the costs involved . Tooth extraction 7 pounds , new denture plate 25 pounds approx an xray 2 pounds . Consultency with doctor 4 pounds and an eye examination 3 pounds . I read an article of a lady from the uk who was quoted ten thousand pound to have major dental work in the uk. She ended up having it in bulgaria for 1500 pounds , and she could not fault any of his work . So in a word im happy with the system in bulgaria , i would like to add that alot of drugs are available over the counter without prescription as well . But all this does not help the bulgarians as they cannot afford it , so many go sick i feel sorry for them.


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