# TV programme 'The State'



## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

Is anybody watching it?
Might it not have been a good idea for our government to have backed/funded something like this a few years ago? Maybe portray the joining of ISIS as even worse (if possible). It might have put some of our young people off joining them and negated some of the problems that have come back to haunt us?
What's wrong with a bit of good old propaganda?


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Like the old saying goes...'Any publicity is good publicity'....I believe it would attract even more.
Those attracted don't think like you and I:surprise:


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## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

I think it would have put a few of the women off going :surprise:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

We saw 2 of the 4 episodes - powerful stuff indeed!

Graham :serious:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I found them very disturbing 

Why in the 21 C can this be happening ?

We need to peacefully co exist without fear 

But for some reason sufficient people do not want that 

Why? is it a religious thing ?

Well you know I think it is 

And I think only the Muslim faith can sort it out , I appreciate most are peaceful law abiding 

But at the end of the day they, the peaceful law abiding muslims , need to get involved 

We are the infidels and nothing we say can influence the extremists beliefs

They believe they are following the Koran and Mohammad's example 

So how on earth would they listen to us when they won't listen to their brethren

So maybe their brethren need to get tougher 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I so agree with you Sandra.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

It devastated me on an earlier thread when I felt accused of racism , bigotry etc
But that's not what I am 

I'm just me that took time to look at the Koran and the sidar

To try to understand 

I never meant to upset

But I believed we needed to understand the core of religious believes 

Needed to understand why ISis believe what they do 

And I don't need those people who I felt were friends and who knew me

To suddenly feel I was a racist bigot 

But time will tell 

And we need to understand the minds of Isis , in order to defete them

But more than that we need the law abiding muslims in our midst to defeat them

To say no this is not acceptable

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Just when I thought the site was ticking along rather nicely....................here we go again.

So anybody who dares to disagree with you will make you feel like you are being accused of racism or bigotry.......................then you will be all hurt and threaten to leave (in September) so it kind of cuts down the opportunity for others to question your opinions.



> But more than that we need the law abiding muslims in our midst to defeat them
> 
> To say no this is not acceptable


A simple question....................exactly how many of our Muslim friends,neighbours and family would have to turn out to say "not in my name.......this is

not acceptable" before you would leave the law abiding Muslims alone and stop having a go. You really need to think about why you keep wanting to do

this. Let's all just give it a rest...............as you know it achieves nothing but unpleasantness.


Here's a starter for your research

Or in UK


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Your so wrong about me webby

Only the law abiding muslims have the power, strengh and knowledge to stand against the violent distortion of their faith

And I'm not having a go at anyone , of course everyone from every faith or non faith needs to stand against terrorism in any form

But isn't that what the people in Spain, France, Britain etc are doing by solidarity and refusal to be intimidated following the murder of itscivilians ?

I really feel it's your own hang ups you need to sort out, what gives you the right to feel you are the champion of of the Muslim faith?

And I don't for one minute think kids should stand up, but they need to be protected from radicalisation, 
And that is taking place within communities, communities that are themselves very concerned about it 

But I do think that open dialogue is necessary it's not racism to condem the actions of ISIS, its recruitment method and it's brutality

I actually accord more respect to the muslim people and their leaders by feeling that they are the only group with the power to halt this madness.

They should be the leaders in the fight against this particular form of terrorism 

All this" leave the muslims alone " means what??

Do you think that Isis, like Topsy just grew from nowhere??

And you are right in as much as no open discussion is permitted, watch the programmes, and if you don't think such programmes should be on TV or should be discussed, direct your objection to them, tell them to leave the muslims alone 

And of course you can and do disagree with me ( And others) usually by emotional rhetoric, and put down 

And no I'm not going to bother arguing with you on this subject beyond this

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I found the programs very powerful and disturbing. 

I did think that it would put people off who were sensitive to others as the lead character was.

But I also thought it might encourage others who had no such empathy for their fellow humans, and there do seem to be plenty of those around.

A very powerful drama.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I so agree

And it saddens me

The guy committed to life imprisonment for trying to smuggle a bomb on plane came from a few streets down from us 

Our local mosque 

I don't know if he attended it he lived close 

But the imman has disappeared 

But I do know that a report said there were leaflets in the mosque which let's say could have tempted young people to Isis a while ago

The imman said he couldn't be responsible for leaflets put there without his consent 

My ex management kicked in,

Of course he could, that's his job 

You are there to protect and guide your community

Just as I was there to protect and guide my workforce 

But maybe his idea of guiding and protecting was different 

And don't bother webby 
I'm actually on your side but not anywhere as near the left

The right I have no patience for

I'll settle about the middle, I neither wish to protect or attack 

I really just want to understand and without the right to speak freely I'm wondering how those of us caught in the crossfire can

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Go right ahead and speak as freely as you like, just don't expect not to be challenged if others disagree with what you say.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Now why on earth would I expect not to be challenged erneyboy ?

Im naive in many things , but stupid I'm not 

So I'm not going to get into an argument with you or webby 

You express your own views without reference to me

Surely you have some views that you own that don't involve criticising me, or perhaps you prefer not to give them ownership 

It can leave you vulnerable ,when people pick out the details to twist them 

Better to hide and critique others 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

And I rectify a mistake

It was not the local imman who disappeared 

It was the imman in Spain 

Their families said the same familiar thing

Their boys had recently " become religious "

You don't think with boys of my own that I can't understand their pain or bewilderment 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Come on 

You need me to make a stance before I go 

Maybe I'll not need to Renew and you will be stuck with me

However it's unlikely , I doubt this site needs me 

And travelling renewal is out of the question 

Regardless of Barry's intervention 

So webby

You'll miss me even if you don't yet know it

You need to get control of that rabbit 

And erneyboy who will you challenge , knowing you are well loved by me your nemesis 

And as always I love most of you , you have been so special to me 

And as usual you don't want me to talk about love 

It's another forbidden thing, but we can love in so many ways 

But time passes and we need to move on 

And I've mostly enjoyed my time on here

It's a great site and you all need to keep it so 

Please do

I'm not yet gone as I can still get on here 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You seemed to be saying that you couldn't speak freely. I was saying that as far as I'm concerned you can. Take that as criticism or as an attempt to start an argument if you want to.

Leave or stay, that's your decision.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Of course it is erneyboy 

You my babe take it exactly as you wish 

Of course I can speak freely 

As long as I'm happy to be attacked

Never mind what I actually say, let's look at what I'm perceived to have said 

And really sadly, I'm beginning to realise

What the hell

I'm too old to care 

Hopefully the youngsters can take over

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Oh here we go again............I thought all this nonsense had finished. What time is it ??????????



> And I rectify a mistake
> 
> It was not the local imman who disappeared
> 
> It was the imman in Spain


What a big mistake to make given all your detailed research.


> You'll miss me even if you don't yet know it
> 
> You need to get control of that rabbit
> 
> ...


What a load of nonsense................it's like being in the pub late at night.

The point you miss all the time Aldra, is why it matters to me what you say about Muslims.

Like you love your family(don't we all hear about it) I love and defend my family.............even the ones who are Muslim


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

aldra said:


> ...Maybe I'll not need to Renew and you will be stuck with me...*And travelling renewal is out of the question*
> Sandra


Actually Sandra, you can't use that excuse :wink2:

I was able to renew this year while travelling - in fact it was ridiculously easy (for a change!)


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby1 said:


> Oh here we go again............I thought all this nonsense had finished. What time is it ??????????
> 
> What a big mistake to make given all your detailed research.
> 
> ...


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby1 said:


> Oh here we go again............I thought all this nonsense had finished. What time is it ??????????
> 
> What a big mistake to make given all your detailed research.
> 
> ...


Whoops whoops whoops

So maybe you are emotionally compromised

Yes I love my family but I've never portrayed them as perfect

They could well bore you

And I've never compelled you to read my posts

You could easily avoid them

Yet you don't

Now why is that I wonder 
Sandra


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

aldra said:


> Webby1 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh here we go again............I thought all this nonsense had finished. What time is it ??????????
> ...


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sandra, if you want people who disagree with you to ignore what you say why do you post on a forum? It's a format for discussions and exchanges of views.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I do know that greygit 

But two wrongs don't make a right 

I also know Isis has murdered far more muslims than none muslims

And by and large the people carrying it out are not much more than kids themselves, such a tragic waste of a young life and devestating to their families 

The Manchester bombing disturbed me , the other atrocities too, and now I find I'm anxious about the London Festival, such a lot of people gathered together

I guess that is exactly what these attacks are meant to do, create anxiety, they certainly do for me , not a personal fear for my safety but my heart sinks every time one happens for those caught up in it 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It's called terrorism. The name tells the tale.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby it wasn't a big mistake, it wasn't research it was just a recent news update, on the sentancing of a bury man,not a youngster in that case and the recent Spanish attackers, sadly young men as is so often the case 

I have said nothing about your family, I don't think for one minute they support the ideology of Isis so their religious beliefs ( or non beliefs ) is of no more concern than my Christian beliefs (or non beliefs) 

I'm criticising the political and ideological stance of Isis, and I'm guessing that you are not a supporter of their terrorist attacks, Muslim, Christian ,all faiths or non faiths are just as likely to be caught up in indiscriminate bombing or the latest craze of mowing vehicles through crowds of people.

We need to understand it in order to prevent their radicalisation of kids, these are the kids of the Muslim community, the Muslim community are in the best position to come up with the answers 

The terrorists, not me are the ones that are attacking/ distorting the religious beliefs of the Muslim faith 

And yes I'm well aware that many of the Muslim leaders are working hard to come up with a solution and that it isn't easy 

It probabally won't be found in my lifetime, but maybe in our grandkids lifetime?

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Aldra I agree with everything in your last post........................but that's not what you keep saying................ and it's why I keep challenging you and asking you to stop. Here are a few examples of the statements you made after the Manchester bombing......................



> And once again the Muslim society are out claiming innocence*
> Pleading that they are not affiliated to radical Islam , fearing reprisals which generally never happen
> Bringing their concerns top of the agenda*





> I believe that Islam is a religion of a hateful God*





> What I'm not sure of is how many would remain moderate if push comes to shove*
> 
> Surveys reveal frightening results re support for suicide bombers , for those joining Isis , for those cheering the twin towers*
> 
> For those celebrating the Manchester atrocity*


This is all more than criticising Isis and bing taken out of context is no excuse. Then in this thread complaining that the "Muslims" are not taking a stance,despite evidence to the contrary.....................and of course as above can they even be distrusted if push comes to shove.

Then complaining that you are being bullied when anyone dares to challenge you........and causing you to leave the site

Watch my lips eff off ..................you sicken me ......................were two of your choice responses I believe.

Please think about what you are posting.......................keep to the tone of your last post............say what you like about Isis and terrorists.
Criticise Islam, as long as its part of a general criticism of all religions.

But if you keep posting as you have done in the past, then I will have to keep challenging you. Neither of us want that so lets give it all a rest


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby
listen to me

Just really Listen

Allow me to have moved on without constantly pulling up the past to put me down 

I'm learning and during the learning process things change 

I have never been racist, ok I know I feel my culture is swamped in the area I live

And if I'm honest the Muslim community will be glad to see the remnant move out 

They tolerate us, mostly because of the number of kids , (hey we are strange in the English eyes, 6 kids and not a problem family ) and well we are part of the backdrop 

If you look at France Spain etc ,expat people like to live amongst their own culture , it's familiar 

And I understand why it's familiar to the Muslim community 

But we've lived here for over 25 years , never has anything untoward happened

Except I won't go to the local shop, although I offered to help erfies new wife learn English 

But groups of young men gather there and as a woman I can't make eye contact and feel really uncomfortable as they stare at me in silence 

Just one of the cultural diffences 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

erneboy said:


> It's called terrorism. The name tells the tale.


I'll be sure to look it up in the dictionary erneyboy

Thank you :nerd:

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Ps the :nerd::nerd:
Was my opinion of your post erneyboy

But you've got me for a bit longer

Make the most of it, you will miss me when I'm gone 

Who will annoy you in the way I do , come on admit it, that connection that irritates you, an itch you need to scratch 

Sandra :kiss:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I won't miss you Sandra. It won't arise because you won't go. Why should you?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I can't stay to scratch your itches erneyboy 

The truth is I've always treated this foram as a place to chat 

To get to know people, to remember what they have posted

To worry about their health problems, and to feel anxious when things go wrong with them 

To talk about my non too perfect family and listen to others advice from their non too perfect family 

To talk about my travels and never remember where we stayed

To talk about the hound from hell , who isn't getting any better 

I fact just to be friends

But I think it's the wrong foram 

I'm annoying people who want to discuss MHomes, not the people who drive them 

And for me it was always about the people who drive them 

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Once again I agree with everything in your last post...................I want this forum to be all those things you mention. 

You have a lot of friends on here who also want to do those things.................so I think you'll stay.

My thought is that I try to post exactly the kind of things that I would expect to see on the Forum and avoid the PPAPPS (Potentially provocative and probably pointless) I like the expression "Bring what you expect to find"

By the way, I feel my culture has been enhanced rather than "swamped" as you put it. British Culture has always absorbed influences..................are you watching Victoria and see the German inputs. Remember Afro Carribbeans, but now millions go to the Carnival and enjoy reggae-reggae sauce (other cultural enhancements are available)

We live in a very mixed area and although by nephew was beaten up by Asian lads for going down "their" street I am sure they would suffer far more if they went into certain areas. It will not stop me engaging with them.

YOU are putting yourself in the position where you cannot go to the shop and are not allowed to look them in the eye..........................maybe next time just do it and say hallo............

Meanwhile enjoy your trip which I believe is coming up soon...................we are all flying out to visit friends and family in Turkey next week.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

It isn't fear webby

The muslims here are mainly from Pakistan, the women on the whole wear traditional dress , some wear westernised traditional dress, very few burkas are to seen 

The older men have always worn traditional dress, more and more younger men do also 

Their culture does not welcome interchange with women, if they are chatting they usually fall silent 

It is a fact that in this area of town our culture is swamped, very few non Pakistani remain 

I think it's comman for people to live near their mosque and spread out from there

Around the mosque is the typical radiating Lancashire terraced streets ( it was once a mill town ) now totally Pakistani owned 

Missing being surrounded by my own culture at home does not mean I am unpleasant to those I meet and it could well be an age thing that I miss life and community as it was

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

PS, Webby

Have a good trip

It's years since I was in Turkey 

I wonder if the "pudding shop " is still there in Itstanbul ?

Those were my hippie days, and you could leave messages there to link up with friends you had met on your travels :grin2:

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

But then again 
For as long as I'm here 
I'll always say what I think 
Never meaning to upset 
But I won't pussyfoot among people's feelings 
And of course I could be wrong

Or maybe right 

Again maybe the wrong forum

If it's supposed to be about non inflammatory things

Some things inflame me , 

Be patient, maybe my impatience is limited 

But I want to say things as I think 

Wrong or right

Because in the scheme of things 

I'm limited in time 

I want to argue and learn 

I want to disagree 

I want to be the kid all those years ago in children's homes 

Who thought it was worth fighting for

But it's probabally the wrong forum 

And I accept that

Sandra


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

aldra said:


> But then again
> For as long as I'm here
> I'll always say what I think
> Never meaning to upset
> ...


 Just think how much you will miss all that when you leave Aldra. :wink2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

It's possible
But then again 
Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

We need you woman, who else of our sex is going to argue with these blokes if you bugger orf ?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

You Jan 

For all their faults , they are really quite lovely people 

Sandra


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

You will, no one will, ever agree on everything Sandra, especially if getting involved in contentious, political threads which is from what I gather people have been disagreeing with you.

A debate is not a debate if everybody agrees.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I know Paul 

And I'm an argumentative bugger 

On a good day>

Sandra:grin2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

aldra said:


> You Jan
> 
> For all their faults , they are really quite lovely people
> 
> Sandra


Not me, I am neither argumentative (cept with the Navi :laugh
Don't know enough about politics or religions to contribute anything sensible so I keep my thoughts to myself, mostly.
Now dog training I could say a bit about that and get a lot of people's angry up :grin2:


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Aldra,
Of course I remember the Pudding Shop circa 1976 and I've loved Turkey ever since.

Now we live in Blackburn so I know exactly what you mean about the area changing ,but I don't feel swamped at all. I sometimes miss the way things used to be but I think that's the rose tinted glasses of age.

Of course,there are some people who are just ignorant and if you meet them you'll have a bad experience.....................but I've seen a few in Spain.
Don't even learn to say please and thank you,expect their own food and eh mate 2 more pints of that p*ss you call beer.



> For all their faults,they are really quite lovely people


Did Jesus say that on the cross or is it a Beatles "All you need is love" type song.

I have always thought isn't it funny that all the people I like, also like me and all the people I don't like, don't seem to like me much either..............now is it me or them that has to change.

Anyway as we used to say Keep on Trucking..................................


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

possibaly all the people you like , like you Webby 

Some won't , for whatever reason , like you Webby

I've never found the people who surround me ignorant 
Just a different culture

And I'm quite good on different cultures 

As I age I crave the culture I once knew 

And once upon a time there was the pudding shop 

I was 6 months pregnant with twins 

And after we travelled 24 hours , three seats on the bus, you paid for seats not people, and three was all we could afford for 5 of us 

But I was young, and as always Albert was at my side 

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Oh don't get me started on youth........................

William Wordsworth said:
"Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven."





"Time it was*
And what a time it was, it was*
A time of innocence*
A time of confidences

Long ago it must be*
I have a photograph*
Preserve your memories*
They're all that's left you."


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well that's it webby

You remember the pudding shop, we sifted through the messages 

And managed once again to meet up 

And you would have had acces to the Agia Sophia in those days, it was beautiful wasn't it ?

Well I'm not going to argue with you again

We share a past

Sandra


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Whatever you lot are drinking, I'll have one too! &#55356;&#57207;


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I only drink white wine , 10 %

And now I'm going to watch game of thrones

I managed not to watch it yesterday

But the dragon opened one eye last week

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Devastated 

The end until the next series, but 

The white walkers are walking 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby1 said:


> Oh don't get me started on youth........................
> 
> William Wordsworth said:
> "Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive
> ...


I'm not sure about that webby

Many of my memories of being young are not that good

But they made me what I am

So I cannot deny them

And truly all I can take to the grave are my memories

But we get a second chance, and an even better third chance

Because those memories are carried on in our kids and grandkids

As theirs are in ours

Enough poetry it's time my granddaughter cleaned her bedroom:grin2:

Sandra>


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