# Aires etc Guides - Your thoughts



## deckboy

Hi

I'm sure there lots of threads covering this, but here goes anyway.

We are new to campervan touring (or, will be in July/August) although we have travelled in France, Spain and Portugal in our little Eriba caravan since retiral a few years ago. We think the campervan will give us more versatility and scope to do a bit more adventurous discovering.

Our "bible" when caravanning has been the ACSI CampingCard guide and a bit of internet when WiFi was available, and we'll continue to use it, but along with guides to the Aires etc available to campervans (but not caravans!) across Europe. We still want to stay on sites for a few days or more, but explore small villages, France Passion style places etc.

So, which guides? We will stick with the ASCI, but which of the many other guides available to buy? We'll accumulate guides as we progress and become more adventurous each year, but my thinking is towards the Dutch Camperstop Europe as it seems to cover most of Europe that we are interested in to begin with.

BUT, what are YOUR thoughts?


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## bigtree

I bought the 2013 Bord Atlas this year.


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## gaspode

The comprehensive listing "bible" for French aires is "Aires de Services Camping-Car" published only in French but easy to understamd if you have rudimentary schoolboy French.
https://www.vicarious-shop.com/Le-Guide-Officiel-Aires-Camping-Car-2012.html

Camperstop, although having less listings is in English and provides more detail. You could easily manage with this guide alone.

If you have a smartphone, the Aires Campingcar-Infos app is excellent and free:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...51bGwsMSwxLDEsImZyLmFpcmVzZnJlZS5jY2luZm9zIl0.


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## Penquin

For us, the Vicarious Books Aires as Gaspode describes and the France Passion are our bibles - if we turn up somewhere and don't like the look of it or it's full we use one or other to locate the next nearest place and go there. It works well every time.

The Spanish/Portugese Aires book is also good if you are down that way - but they are much fewer and further between IMO.

France Passion is very useful and we have never yet been disappointed - some are stunning both in views and facilities with e.g free hot showers, washing up, and EHU - all for the price of nothing to enjoy a fantastic view over the vineyard and valley......

Dave


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## damar1

Well we think the only book you ever need is camperstop down load sites into sat nav,and you have all of europe at your finger tips. The best 2 things we ever got camperstop and the garmin sat nav.


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## andyandsue

*ourlist*

The guides from Vicarious Books are great for France and Spain.

The white yearly aire guide in French available from French supermarkets is a good French aires guide also

The Bord atlas for Germany is indispensable.

Guida Camper "Aree di Sosta" guide for Italy is little known but a great book ( kept secret by the canny Italians)

Ill blow my own trumpet if i may and say that the guide book alltheairesmountains was our labour of love and lists great ski aires and campsites used by us over 3 seasons of fulltime sking

the Camperstop book is a bit random but carried as a "second opinion" ive a suspicion that the dutch who write are stoned most of the time and are oblivious to the places they stay and then write up( we followed cords to an aire in Geneva and ended up at the UN headquaters amidst a protest march !!!!!!!

acsi card guide book is valuable for winter stays in europe

Scandanavia was real treat and as its mostly free camping you need whatever guides are going

webbased and sat nav lists are not so good i think,we prefer a battery-free book in our glove compartment...some people like the techy side of such things though


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## suedew

Have bought many guides over the last 3 years.
Only make real use of 2, ACSI , and until we saw the french version, All the Aires book in English.
The advantages of the french book are, more aires, list france passion and also municipal sites.
Will be picking one up as soon as we get to France unless I can get it online.
Have the Bordatlas but not used it yet. Next year though.  

Sue


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## steco1958

I hve to say, I do not use a guide as such !!

I use POI's on the Sat Nav, and then utilise the internet, for any reviews in sites that I may need.


I have :
Archies Campsites
All The Aires
Municipal Sites


What else would you need, I have stumbled across some fantastic municipal sites, with free wine tasting, BBQ's and the like.

Too much planning has a tendancy to spoil the enjoyment and spontenaity of holidays.

Obviously this is the way I do it, if you don't thats ok, whatever works for you.

Steve


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## barryd

I have the Aires book but the main thing I use is www.campingcar-infos.com

I use it online with google translate, I have the offline version which I think cost €8 as a download which I can then use without an internet connection and I have the whole lot downloaded as POI for the sat nav which is free.

I think they have over 16000 stop overs across Europe. I dont think there is a larger collection of Aires, Stellplatz, Sostas, sites and wild camping spots anywhere on the internet in one place.

I have never felt the need for anything else although when you get to places like Austria or Slovenia I found local forums had some useful additions which were not on the cc infos site.


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## drcotts

damar1 said:


> Well we think the only book you ever need is  down load sites into sat nav,and you have all of europe at your finger tips. The best 2 things we ever got <a href=http://www.outdoorbits.com/camperstop-europe-2013-english-9789076080314-p-2981.html>Camperstop [MHF Link] and the garmin sat nav.


Agree with damari re camperstop book.
Some of the entires can be a bit deceptive but not that many.

The other book i have is "All the aires"

As Damari says you can download the POis to a sat nav (doesnt have to be a garmin) and then teres no finger typing to do.

You dont say if you will be using aires or camp sites etc but if using mainly aires the above 2 are great

Phill


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## NeilandDebs

*what aires book*

For me there is only one series of books that you need.

Vicariousbooks. We have used them from France down to Morocco.
They are clear and easy to use. I cannot reccomend them highly enough. And I do not have any connection to them other than being a satisfied customer!

Neil


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## suedew

We do have poi on tom, but I enjoy looking at an area on the map and seeing what is available, flicking back and forward and comparing sites, aires etc. We don't make a detailed plan, book the ferry with an idea of where we are heading and that's it. Intend spending some time in Belgium this year before heading for the sun.

Sue


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## Zebedee

Since a picture is worth an awful lot of words! :wink:

Dave

B.T.W. the apparent "escapee" municipal out in the sea is actually on Ouessant Island!

.


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## rosalan

There are other books about but reading through the thread so far.... All the Aires (France,Spain, Portugal etc) seems to be the most popular.
We use 'All the Aires' and a download of Aires from the TomTom site and the ASCI book.

I love the idea of having the little Eriba, so much in a tiny box but once you start using the Aires, the joy of complete independence and freedom and the lack of expense put touring into a completely new frame.
We do sometimes use sites, when overseas, which is where the ASCI book kicks in but at home in the UK, we stick mainly with BritStops which give us similar freedoms to the Aires.

Alan


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## barryd

The All the Aires books are good but they really should be called "Some of the Aire" because "All" they are definately not. They are getting better though. Problem is they only cover single countries.


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## jonegood

camping car infos is definitely the best. Its always up to date and it has more stops and information and photos than anyone else, there are many gems and very few duds on it. Free online or 8euros on ur hdd.

Guida camper is rubbish. buy it and you will discover as I did that the information is years old, many of the sostas have closed and new ones have appeared.

Bord atlas is good for germany. Ive looked at vicarious 'all the aires' books and agree it should be renamed to 'some'

Jon


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## nukeadmin

if you take a laptop / notebook away with you then our very own iCampsites USB App is good, the entire MHF campsite database (>9000) entries all over Europe and works without Internet access

http://www.outdoorbits.com/icampsites-usb-edition-cross-platform-campsite-database-p-1726.html

Best of all it never goes out of date


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## aircool

barryd said:


> The All the Aires books are good but they really should be called "Some of the Aire" because "All" they are definately not. They are getting better though. Problem is they only cover single countries.


The main problem is there is no centralised Aires database i.e. maintained by a seperate organisation IIRC.


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## aldra

We bought the Aree Di Sosta last year for Italy 2012

but we found many of the co ords wrong and a lot of them were actually campsites and expensive

Aldra


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## andyandsue

*sosta book*

I last bought the sosta book in 2008 and found it good,being Italy i found you had to take every thing with a pinch of salt and expect nothing when u roll up and be prepared! some people expect too much from aire guides and treat em like hotel guides ...a bad move in Italy

The United Nations doesn't "unite nations ", the United Kingdom isnt united, the Liberals arnt liberal and the " Opposition cant "oppose" so it might be a bit much to expect a guide book to have every single aire in all the time ,even if the series title is "all the aires"

looks as if the general tightening up of the economy has had an effect on the sostas which isn't surprising

The Italians love to freecamp and several MH organisations have websites listing sosta... Italian only and chaotic of course but well worth the time decoding...i forget the names of em but a bit of digging should find em

I would still tell people to go to Italy esp if you can cope with French aires and free camping isn't a problem for you
Sicily is a real gem esp for overwintering....weather a bit unpredictable though

fav sosta is right at the summit of Mount Etna pic below


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## BritStops

Well I'm obviously biased :roll: but as well as whatever aires / aree di sosta / stellplatze guide you prefer, I'd go for

France Passion
Fattore Amico
Espana Discovery 
Swiss Terroir
and the brand new Winzer Atlas published by Bordatlas

All offer free overnight stays at vineyards and farms, where you can get lovely locally produced wines and produce, and really get a flavour (pun intended) of the country and region.

Steve


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## DavyS

nukeadmin said:


> if you take a laptop / notebook away with you then our very own iCampsites USB App is good, the entire MHF campsite database (>9000) entries all over Europe and works without Internet access
> 
> http://www.outdoorbits.com/icampsites-usb-edition-cross-platform-campsite-database-p-1726.html
> 
> Best of all it never goes out of date


I went to the outandabout page which sells the memory stick for £17. You can click on a country to sample it online. I clicked France then a site in the area I am going to. The quality of the information was superb ..
"Ordnance Survey:	47.2603 North -2.33872East 
Number Of Pitches:	50 
Information:	Market square in Pornichet town centre. Pornichet prides itself in having no parking charges at all. Market square can be used any day but need to get clear on saturdays and wednesdays before 6.00am for the market. Tourist bureau right opposite and has a car park at rear for nights before markets if you do not want to get up early. Lots of parking also down on seafront and on harbour aproach road that was popular with French campervans. Choice of nearby toilets and beach showers 100yds from square.
Attractions Nearby:	The Markets plus permanent fish and fresh produce market every week day. Beaches are excellent all the way up to La Baule. St Nazaire nearby. Sea fishing off beach or pier. Nice town to walk round.
Toilet Rating:	Very Good
Distance from Public Transport(miles):	1
Opening Dates:	January/1 December/1
Cost per night (High Season):	0
Cost per night (Low Season):	0
Max Stay (Days):	Unlimited
Campsite Type:	Wild Camping Spot"

But I dont understand why you say the memory stick never goes out of date? Surely the data on it is out of date from the moment you buy it?


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## Zebedee

DavyS said:


> But I dont understand why you say the memory stick never goes out of date? Surely the data on it is out of date from the moment you buy it?


Hi Davy

It's Specsavers for you! 8O :lol:

It has an update feature, and you can download the latest additions as often as you like, at no extra charge.

Dave


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## SaddleTramp

Personally I do a couple of things, I have Camperstop and Acsi all stored on my sat nav.

If I am stopping on an aire I search for one either on my route or close to me on sat nav this shows the page no so then I look at it, If it looks ok off we go.

If we decide it's time for a campsite I look for an Acsi site again either on route or close to me, Pull it up on Sat Nav which tells me all about it price, facilities, whats close etc etc etc if it looks good just press go and away we go.

I dont actually plan each day as such we wake up decide to head towards so and so and when we have had enough we decide to stop.


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## teemyob

*APPS*

If you have cheap internet Access (I now use Vodaphone Eurotraveler). The Free Apps are very good.

We recently had to leave a Stelplatz in Germany last minute, late at night in the dark.

Few taps on my iPhone found the next nearest site, copied the co-ordinates into our Sat Nav and we were arrived 17km away with ease.

But we also carry the Aires French Version and Bord Atlas.

TM


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## barryd

*Re: APPS*



teemyob said:


> If you have cheap internet Access (I now use Vodaphone Eurotraveler). The Free Apps are very good.
> 
> We recently had to leave a Stelplatz in Germany last minute, late at night in the dark.
> 
> Few taps on my iPhone found the next nearest site, copied the co-ordinates into our Sat Nav and we were arrived 17km away with ease.
> 
> But we also carry the Aires French Version and Bord Atlas.
> 
> TM


Its hardly cheap anymore though TM. £90 a month now if you use it every day which means one text, call, email or browse to trigger the £3 a day charge.

Wifi booster and offline camping car infos does it for me. I also used Autoroute with all the cc infos pushpins on it last year. That was brilliant until it died and I never got it running again.


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## nicholsong

Barry

I follow about using the campingcars-info offline but was not sure where the WiFi booster comes in - unless you use that for updating the campingcar datebase when you have free WiFi access. If so it is the route I am thinking of going.

Or is WiFi for some other link to finding places?

Geoff

P.S. Hope the teeth are settling down - cos it's a long time till Christmas  :lol: 

Are you allowed back on the Liffe this evening - hope so as we miss your post-Liffe postings :wink:


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## deckboy

nukeadmin said:


> if you take a laptop / notebook away with you then our very own iCampsites USB App is good, the entire MHF campsite database (>9000) entries all over Europe and works without Internet access
> 
> http://www.outdoorbits.com/icampsites-usb-edition-cross-platform-campsite-database-p-1726.html
> 
> Best of all it never goes out of date


I have downloaded the campingcars-info data directly to my laptop.
Is it worth buying the iCampsites USB as well?


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> Barry
> 
> I follow about using the campingcars-info offline but was not sure where the WiFi booster comes in - unless you use that for updating the campingcar datebase when you have free WiFi access. If so it is the route I am thinking of going.
> 
> Or is WiFi for some other link to finding places?
> 
> Geoff
> 
> P.S. Hope the teeth are settling down - cos it's a long time till Christmas  :lol:
> 
> Are you allowed back on the Liffe this evening - hope so as we miss your post-Liffe postings :wink:


Ideally Geoff if I can get online using the wifi antenna I will access the online cc infos site. ITs more up to date and I can translate it into English. If I cant get online (Which is rare) I use the offline version.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barry
> 
> I follow about using the campingcars-info offline but was not sure where the WiFi booster comes in - unless you use that for updating the campingcar datebase when you have free WiFi access. If so it is the route I am thinking of going.
> 
> Or is WiFi for some other link to finding places?
> 
> Geoff
> 
> P.S. Hope the teeth are settling down - cos it's a long time till Christmas  :lol:
> 
> Are you allowed back on the Liffe this evening - hope so as we miss your post-Liffe postings :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Ideally Geoff if I can get online using the wifi antenna I will access the online cc infos site. ITs more up to date and I can translate it into English. If I cant get online (Which is rare) I use the offline version.
Click to expand...

Barry

Understood, and I had not thought about the translation aspect.

Thanks.

Geoff


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## nicholsong

Searchforsites said:


> You could try this site which amalgamates a lot of the data sets already mentioned into one single site.
> 
> searchforsites
> 
> Sorry cant add a link directly as I haven't subscribed yet.


I have had a quick look at this site.

He does say it is being used to develop his skills in using certain programmes.

The home page has a block for a map and map cursor but no map. However, when I did a search for campsites near ***** and the map came up OK.

I could not find a Legend for the symbols - maybe that is because they are defined by wherever they are 'lifted' from.

Could the site run into copyright problems or can that be avoided if for research?

Maybe it needs time to bed down but it could be very useful if it combines all sites in one accessible format, especially if it were downloadable for off-line use.

Geoff


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## nicholsong

Searchforsites said:


> Geoff
> The key on the home page is available in the top right hand corner - this also acts as a filter.
> If you use the full screen demo page the Key and filter can also be accessed by using the green + button.
> What system/browser are you using if you didn't see the map on the front page?
> 
> Tony
> There isn't a facility at the moment for adding your own records but i have received a few via the contact page and have added them directly.
> I am currently working on converting the database to MySQL format so all the functionality can be added as required.


OK key to symbols found thanks. I am using Mozilla Firefox.

Geoff


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## deckboy

As I started this thread and the information and "thoughts" have been very helpful, I thought I'd do a wee survey of three computer/internet based guides that I like.
They were:
the Search For Sites web based one that joined in the thread:
searchforsites

the Camping-car Infos one that is web based downloadable data or USB based:
http://www.campingcar-infos.com/index1.htm

the iCampsites USB stick and apps based
http://www.outdoorbits.com/icampsites-usb-edition-cross-platform-campsite-database-p-1726.html

I chose the Isle of Skye as it's an island so clear borderlines and I knew there were few sites.

*Search For Sites (web based) free:*
4 sites/possibilities
2 x CCC-certificated site (members only)
1 x CCC (members only)
1 x CC-certificated location (members only)

*Campingcar Infos (web, download or USB stick) €8*
5 sites/possibilities
3 x camping accepting MH
2 x camping reserved for MH (no services)

*iCampsites USB Edition (USB stick and app) £20*
14 sites/possibilities
7 x wild
3 x CS
1 x CL
3 x Independent

The Search For Sites is free, simple and clear to use and it should develop as reviews are sent in and added, but dependant on having an internet connection.
The French one can be used offline and is cheap and updated but short on details and a bit quirky to use.
The iCampsites was very comprehensive, available offline, easy to use, updated, but a bit more expensive.


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## deckboy

barryd said:


> Of course the results might be quite different if you searched somewhere like southern France or northern Italy.
> 
> I like the searchforsites site though. Its neat. If it were as populated as CC infos and had a search by map facility it would win hands down. The CC Infos site is crap but it has all the data!


Yes, I like the Search For Sites. Interesting to see how it developes and would be good if it eventually had an offline alternative.

I tried another island that is on the "future plans" agenda for us when we get our van - Sicily (bit warmer than Skye!) At a glance, Search For Sites and Camping-car Info show much more possibilities than iCampsites.
(Well it helps pass the winter days as I wait for our campervan :lol: )


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## nukeadmin

right I took a look into our search for sites website and data, i also googled it and found other posts on other forums with same sort of promotional postings.

I cannot condone links to that site, there appears to be a large amount of entries that have been taken from other repositories online such as Campingcar Infos / France Passion / ACSI, I am pretty sure these organisations will not want their data (ACSI sell theirs / license it and so does Campingcar, FP actively goes out of its way to stop users publicising them) and the poster seems to have sat down with the organisations books / data and simply copied them all into a central database with a web interface or purchased data which is for personal use and then uploaded it to this site !

If i did that their would be hell to pay !, I could today go and pay and download the campingcar datasets and within a few minutes import them into mhf no doubt but it would be morally wrong if not probably illegal as well / copyright infringement

I am sorry but I don't buy into the hobby site reasoning, any developer can setup an offline webserver and database and test it and use it, it doesn't have to be online, if it is a hobby for himself then why go on all the forums and publicise it  unfortunately from experience I know that many times new users come to MHF, post links to a site that is FREE / None Commercial / Hobby etc, get back links, get traffic and then all of a sudden it becomes commercial with paid access / advertisers or some other commercial system.

Feel free to build your site search for sites, but be aware I will be checking your entries to see if any of MHF entries appear in there, and I am sure the other organisations will do the same once I let them know about your database !!


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## aldra

OOOps
Lucky for me I haven't a clue what you are all talking about

nothing new there then :lol: :wink: :wink: 

Aldra (innocent motif)


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## nicholsong

I flagged up likely copyright issues in my earlier post.

I am not surprised Nuke has taken the line that he has.

I revisited the website and note that in the link 'About Us' it starts describing the site then reverts to the personal pronoun 'I' and the caption to the photo says 'our motorhome' .But no names given.

On balance I would doubt the motives of the site as being as described.

Geoff


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Our site guides must be 7 years old. Camping car infos on cd, again must be 7 years old. Never got stuck without a site yet.
Dave p


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## barryd

deckboy said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the results might be quite different if you searched somewhere like southern France or northern Italy.
> 
> I like the searchforsites site though. Its neat. If it were as populated as CC infos and had a search by map facility it would win hands down. The CC Infos site is crap but it has all the data!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I like the Search For Sites. Interesting to see how it developes and would be good if it eventually had an offline alternative.
> 
> I tried another island that is on the "future plans" agenda for us when we get our van - Sicily (bit warmer than Skye!) At a glance, Search For Sites and Camping-car Info show much more possibilities than iCampsites.
> (Well it helps pass the winter days as I wait for our campervan :lol: )
Click to expand...

Where did my post go? Was it controversial or something?


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## aldra

Barry

Every thing You do is controversial 

Your website?????

Don't start creeping now

MHF fruitcakes members are poised to go down with you

Stand firm at the Stern or is that the Helm????

Whatever :lol: :lol: 

You are innocent in this latest controversial issue remember

Another innocent one :lol:  

Aldra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> Barry
> 
> Every thing You do is controversial
> 
> Your website?????
> 
> Don't start creeping now
> 
> MHF fruitcakes members are poised to go down with you
> 
> Stand firm at the Stern or is that the Helm????
> 
> Whatever :lol: :lol:
> 
> You are innocent in this latest controversial issue remember
> 
> Another innocent one :lol:
> 
> Aldra


I might be a lot of things. Innocent has never been one of them!


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## DTPCHEMICALS

aldra said:


> Barry
> 
> Every thing You do is controversial
> 
> Your website?????
> 
> Don't start creeping now
> 
> MHF fruitcakes members are poised to go down with you
> 
> Stand firm at the Stern or is that the Helm????
> 
> Whatever :lol: :lol:
> 
> You are innocent in this latest controversial issue remember
> 
> Another innocent one :lol:
> 
> Aldra


Barry controversial.........no.
Fruitcake..............yes :lol:
Dave p


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## aldra

Oh well I tried and failed
OK so what dd you do to upset our nuke??

Apart from the long list of things we already new about

Aldra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> Oh well I tried and failed
> OK so what dd you do to upset our nuke??
> 
> Apart from the long list of things we already new about
> 
> Aldra


Well if you look at the previous page at Deckboys last post he quotes my last post which was a few minutes earlier but has now gone for some unknow reason. There was nothing bad in it I dont think. Maybe its a bug. Who knows. Maybe we should bugger off and do something else!


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## Zebedee

Hi Barry

I would guess that your post was mopped up along with the ones Nuke had to remove earlier.

One of mine has gone too, along with the posts from Searchforsites which Nuke obviously had to remove for possible copyright reasons. _(You saw his post no doubt, earlier in this thread?)_

I remember how difficult it was when we were modding. Sometimes a perfectly "OK" post had to go because it just looked stupid when others leading up to it had been culled.

Dave


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## deckboy

My original query seems to have "evolved",
 _


deckboy said:



I have downloaded the campingcars-info data directly to my laptop.
Is it worth buying the iCampsites USB as well?

Click to expand...

_
but the feedback on it has been very helpful for a newcomer to MHs and although I have already downloaded the Camping-Cars Info data, I like the iCampsites USB's layout of information and ease of use.

Putting the question of Search For Sites aside, I know that the Camping-Cars Info is "in house", but what about iCampsites? Is it developed and marked by Motorhome Facts/Outdoor Bits, or sourced somewhere else (like the books) and just sold by Motorhome Facts/Outdoor Bits?

Thanks again for all the help.


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## barryd

I'm not bothered Dave as nuke is just protecting his interests and the others. Just didn't think I'd said anything I shouldn't .
I guess it's a tricky one really. Vicarious books claim in their guides that the GPS points in their guide are theirs and you are not allowed to share them or publish them elsewhere. 

I can totally understand them being concerned about their content being abused, photos, comments etc but how can you claim copywrite to a GPS point?

If I start my own guide then my gps points for an aire for example will no doubt be the same as the aires book although mine would be decimal (why they do theirs the way they do is beyond me). I don't see how they could do anything about it.

Ripping off people's content though is another issue. Maybe we should all put more effort into the mhf database and make it the best. I would use it more if it had as much data as cc infos as often the reviews are very helpful.

I however am probably as guilty as most of just "not getting round to it".. I must make more effort as I have probably got a lot to add.


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## nukeadmin

the Motorhomefacts campsite database has evolved Deckboy over the last probably 6-7 years, the majority of the entries have been added by our very own members, but about a year or so back i did pay someone to add in any Caravan Club / CCC entries that were missing (I did contact them asking for permission back in 2006)


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## BritStops

Hi Barry, apologies in advance for a non-fruitcake post - I promise to do better next time!

Intellectual property rights exists in many forms, the most widely known of which is copywrite, but the one that would likely apply to a collection of GPS coordinates would be database right.

There's some info here on the government's Intellectual Property Office (last para).

Obviously a random group of gps coordinates wouldn't be protected by database right, but one that has specifically been put together for a particular purpose would, if it were copied either in its entirety or a substantial part thereof (which doesn't have to be over 50%).

Copywrite protection may also apply in the selection and arrangement of the data.

So I'm obviously with Nuke on this one, and will also keep an eye on potential infringement of our own database.

Steve


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## nicholsong

I do not want to hijack this thread with something which, while being relevant, is a bit too detailed for this general discussion of access to site info. I have therefore started another Topic.

SO PLEASE RESPOND ON THE OTHER TOPIC,WHICH IS:-

"Availability of info on 'washday' visits to campsites"

Forum helper note. Link to new thread inserted.
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1385206.html#1385206

The content of that post is copied below.

Thanks.

Geoff

"I am starting this as a new topic but will post a reference to it on the Topic of campsite books/databases.

For those of us who prefer to wild-camp there is a need to visit places with facilities for waste dump/fresh water/laundry.

Some people book in for 1-2 nights to do this.

[Please not let this thread develop into an argument as to the rights/wrongs of doing that. I assume site owners are just as capable of working out what they should charge for this as they do for a pitch, and for them it is additional revenue, even when fully booked]

I prefer to visit a site in the day, between the departures and arrivals and use their facilities for a fee. The possibilities to do this vary from the advertised C+CC sites which offer this facility to informal arrangements, such as I have experienced on a private site (just for dump and water) of 'Please just put something in the Charity Box'

Of the various books and databases etc., do any of them list the facility of using these services, for a fee, on a day visit?


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## steco1958

*Re: APPS*



barryd said:


> Its hardly cheap anymore though TM. £90 a month now if you use it every day which means one text, call, email or browse to trigger the £3 a day charge.


Barry, are you saying that using your phone in anyway initiates the £3 extra a day charge when abroad ??

Steve


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## barryd

*Re: APPS*



steco1958 said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its hardly cheap anymore though TM. £90 a month now if you use it every day which means one text, call, email or browse to trigger the £3 a day charge.
> 
> 
> 
> Barry, are you saying that using your phone in anyway initiates the £3 extra a day charge when abroad ??
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...

Only if you sign up for the new Vodafone Euro Traveller. If you dont sign up you just pay 69p per MB for data and whatever it is for calls 28p or something and about 8p a text. If however you sign up for Euro Traveller it allows you to use all your inclusive minutes and data from your UK account for £3 a day which is fine if you need to be on the phone all the time or on the internet. Most of us just want a small bit of browsing, email and the odd text or call. Problem is if your signed up for Euro traveller and send just one text then thats it. Its started for that day and will cost you £3.

As I check my email every day or send the odd text or call it would mean I would trigger the £3 charge pretty much every day and it would therefore cost me near enough £90 a month.

I will be looking for a new provider should I be lucky enough to get away this year.

Sorry OFF TOPIC


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## deckboy

BritStops said:


> Hi Barry, apologies in advance for a non-fruitcake post - I promise to do better next time!
> 
> Intellectual property rights exists in many forms, the most widely known of which is copywrite, but the one that would likely apply to a collection of GPS coordinates would be database right.
> 
> There's some info here on the government's Intellectual Property Office (last para).
> 
> Obviously a random group of gps coordinates wouldn't be protected by database right, but one that has specifically been put together for a particular purpose would, if it were copied either in its entirety or a substantial part thereof (which doesn't have to be over 50%).
> 
> Copywrite protection may also apply in the selection and arrangement of the data.
> 
> So I'm obviously with Nuke on this one, and will also keep an eye on potential infringement of our own database.
> 
> Steve


Just got this from Vicarious Books Product News update email:

_Dear Subscribers,

I have been talking to France Passion about the problems caused by people illegally publishing information from the guidebook on the internet. Despite their fears, France Passion will soon be selling coordinate downloads from their website. To protect the coordinates they have employed registration and encryption techniques. 
Apparently increasing numbers of non-members are turning up at Passion sites and the publisher does not want to make the situation worse because of coordinates becoming public on the internet. On a positive note we are truly grateful that our customers have respected our intellectual property, as far as we know our information has not been shared.

I have a prediction for you all to ponder over.
I believe that before long everyone will have to log in to the internet before use and that everything that is published online will have a digital fingerprint, thus creating accountability. Personally I look forward to this level of security because it will then be safe for us to sell our unique information digitally. I am not trying to start a debate about this but feel free to post it on the forums for fun._


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