# Water Frozen any tips?



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well we spent yesterday trying to warm the van up ready for the off today. We have managed to get to Hawkshead in the Lake District and it is really cold. Getting water was a challenge but we filled the tank and loo tank but nothings working.

We couldnt test it yesterday as we couldnt get water to the van (long story)

Switched the water on and the pump is just running like its trying to fill the hot tank boiler which I drained but I dont think nothing is going across. Nothing coming out of any taps.

I drained the cold tank but there must have been some dregs left in as there is now a great slab of ice floating around in the top of the tank. I didnt however empty all the water out of the taps. I know, I know I should have but I didnt. So I reckon there must be some frozen water somewhere trapped. The toilet flush pump just isnt working at all.

We currently have the fire on full and blown on as well as a fan heater going pointed in the region of the tanks. All tanks are internal by the way. Its flipping boiling in here but my worry is the heat wont get to the pipes where the ice is.

Any ideas or should we just keep all the heat on until morning and hope for the best? 

Cheers
BD


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Oh dear barryd.
Down here we have houses with frozen water mains. Plumbers doing in excess of 30 freeze related problems a day.
Personaly I would keep the heat on otherwise you will freeze.
A mile or so down the road from me are the usual CC get away for christmas brigade. .

Keep your fingers crossed and enjoy a dram or two.

davbe p


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

In my experience once un-emptied pipes are frozen, only a general thaw is guaranteed to unblock them, or living with them blocked in a warm van for at least a couple of days. The problem areas are pipes on the extremities of the van away from directly heated living areas.

Much easier to avoid blocked pipes than to thaw them is the message, unhelpful though that is.

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks. Oh dear. Mrs D wants a shower in the morning! Could be a long wait.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Probably impractical, but if you could take it inside a heated garage/workshop/shed with blown-air heaters, it will thaw out gently over a period of hours, or probably the best part of a day.

Just a thought.

Dougie.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cheers Dougie

I did think of that but as you say its probably not possible. Flipping heck we might have to go on a campsite to get a shower! Id rather stink but I think Mrs D will crumble first. 

Its not the end of the world, we have a 20 litre carrier with a tap thats working on top of the kitchen work surface. I can always syphon water back out of the tank into that and boil some to wash the Mrs with (could be fun!) or maybe roll around naked in the snow (dont think she will go for that though)

Anyone know how cold it has to be for 2 stroke oil to freeze as the scooter sounds like a bag of spanners!

Im going to have to get more prepared if this full timing lark ever happens!

Its 25 degrees in southern Turkey I have been told helpfully from MH pals (ex pals now)  

Cheers BD


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

I could manage a shower from a bucket. Boil kettle full twice and add same amount of cold water for full bucket so that's the body bit done. Do same for hair - voila.

Use a bucket with a spout and pour into a thermal shower or sun shower whatever its called and hang up in shower. Being frugal as we are in a van sorted! The warm water that drains out may warm surrounding pipes as it drains away.

Alternatively dry shampoo - bit late to buy now - Superdrug £1.99p.

Least you have heating to keep you warm and kettle to get the hot water.

I would stick fast at nothing. Get on a site for a proper full on shower if you are near C&CC do a lovely one at Ravenglass which am sure is open all year round. They may even do a mohome stopover.

HTH

Greenie


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Get her to roll about in the snow for a few minutes, its great for the skin and will get her clean in no time   

I think I would go the site route.......


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Think you ought to go on the "get my coat now" route! :lol: 


Wonder if there will be any lake swims on New Year's day there used to be one in Todmorden every year bet they have to break the ice first.

Greenie


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

artona said:


> Get her to roll about in the snow for a few minutes, its great for the skin and will get her clean in no time
> 
> I think I would go the site route.......


I think "out of sight (site)" route would be better, if you are rolling about in the snow, naked! :lol: :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks greenie. We could jump in one of the lakes but I couldn't believe it thurlmere, rydal and grasmere all frozen solid!

It is lovely here though, a real winter wonderland. We were going to go to midnight mass on the bike but it's way to cold to add hypothermia to our problems


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

TR5 said:


> artona said:
> 
> 
> > Get her to roll about in the snow for a few minutes, its great for the skin and will get her clean in no time
> ...


Well there is only us daft enough to be here on the CL so we might get away with it!

Still no joy with the water, 6 hours with heating on yesterday and about 3 this morning and since 3:30 this afternoon.

Will leave heating on all night and see what happens. Im not hopeful. Still. Wont let it spoil the trip, at least we got here I think a lot of people in other parts had to cancel their trips.

Merry Christmas to you all


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

I have an 800watt oil rad running on stat but topped up with erbuspacker and I'm at least 800 miles further south 8O It's too cold to wildcamp! get some comfort man :roll:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Just so long as you're sure that the thread title shouldn't read "Tips frozen - any water?", you'll be fine. 

Merry Chrimbo.

Dougie.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

I drained our system and left all the taps open except the shower head and the water left in the head froze up. I know because its got a head with an on/off switch in th ehead and that would not freeze. I tried to unfreeze it with a hair dryer but it would not touch it so I dismantled th ehead and there was an ice berg inside. The hairdryer then got rid of the ice in seconds.

Don't go dismatleing htisg though if your tanks are full of water and the system is pressurised.


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

Hmm.......... Any tips! 

Hi Barry, we had a Kontiki ours was the 650 with end bathroom / mid kitchen / front lounge and it use to freeze in between the tank and the the kitchen sink the pipes run along the outside wall and tee off for the sink then onto the bathroom, putting a fan heater in the cupboard under the sink should cure it.  

Then get yourself a German van with a double floor. 8O  Bob.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If she does go for a roll tell her to avoid yellow snow Barry. Hope it thaws soon for you, Alan.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

According to the weather forecast Barry, it is going to get milder where you are.  

Oh, did I mention the howling gale and pouring rain. 8O 

The warmer water flooding your van should defrost everything. :? 

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year (wherever the van finishes up).


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

As far as I am aware we do have a double floor and the van is winterised. the problem is it was left for a month in sub zero temps with water in the tubes somewhere. I would imagine a Hymer or any van would be the same. Im supprised it hasnt thawed by now. Going to have a root around. Hope your having a great Christmas. Have told the mrs to avoid the yellow snow when snow bathing. The bikes working ok now although the roads are a little scary in places.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

If its got a double floor like a euramobil for example Barry you can actually crawl into the double floor, is it like that on the Kontiki?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

artona said:


> If its got a double floor like a euramobil for example Barry you can actually crawl into the double floor, is it like that on the Kontiki?


No but Its supposed to be grade 3 winterised whatever that is and the floor is certainly double at the back. anyway its neither here nor there because all the pipes and plumbing are inside and I dont think it would make any difference what motorhome you had if had been left for 4 weeks in sub zero temps with water in the system. It would have frozen

Im starting to wonder though if something else is wrong. Its been warm in here now for a good 24 hours and heating has been on and off in the van for 3 days. I have had everything up again and there is only two pipes from the cold tank the hot tank and its 3 ft away around the side of the van (inside) and I dont think water is getting out of the cold tank at all. Maybe there is something broken or still frozen in the pump. I dont see how you can prevent that.

Last winter for a month in similar temps it was fine but we set off just before it got really cold so the van was been used before it froze. We wild camped down to -12 no problem.

The toilet flush just isnt working either, not even making a noise.

I guess its all negelct in the freezing conditions but I would have expected it to have come to life by now. Surely all toilets are the same? Its not an issue as we just have a bottle of water standing by.

Still wont let it spoil the trip. I think I would like to rip all the plumbing out and put something more Barry proof and freeze proof in. Is this possible?

Cheers
BD


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*Frozen*

Have you got power at your pump Barry? I take it you have given it a bash.........silly but double check just in case the fuse looks ok but is actually blown try swopping it for another.
Chris


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Have the same problem BD. Got cold water to the tap in the kitchen but not in the bathroom. When I turn the tap in the kitchen to hot nothing happens so I don't think the boiler is filling. I have drained the fresh water system and left it empty for now. Also switched the pump off and opened all the taps.

I will leave the heating on low tonight and then turn it up to max tomorrow.

Be aware, I don't think you should use the heating with the electric if no water is getting into the boiler. Sure you're ok on the gas "if Alde" though "depending on what system you have" if that makes sense?


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Barry mate, start near the pump and remove a cold water pipe (carefully) and see if you have water leaking. Work your way away from the pump.

If your lass has a hairdrier, use it to warm up the pipework.

Remember that if you tried to use the pump and it was frozen, it is likely that it has blown the fuse.

Your heating will be a Truma blown air jobby. Leave all lowline cupboard doors open. Use the hairdrier if necessary to blow warm air into the back of them.

If you have a separate Truma water heater, do not try to use it as it may have no water in it. It will trip out but there should be a reset button on it if it does.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks. No I haven't bashed the pump. When you switch on the water the pump is running continuously like it would if it's filling the hot tank but nothing is going down In the cold tank so I don't think it's transfering. Turn on the taps and nothing. If it were a fuse blown I take it there wouldn't be a noise when the pump is turned on?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Winter*

Hi

Winterised and "grade three insulation" are two different things.

Grade three insulation - this means that with the heating on, the van can maintain a temperature of plus 20 degrees C inside when it is - 15 degrees C outside.

Grade two insulation - this means that with the heating on, the van can maintain a temperature of plus 20 degrees C inside when it is zero degrees C outside.

Winterised - means all pipes etc and inboard.

Also, a winterised van would freeze solid if there was no heating on.

Russell


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Russell for clarifying that. All the pipes are internal apart from a small section of the sink waste pipe which ironically is the only thing working.

Right then. I have taken up all the seats (again) and poked around in the tank. The drain valve is working so water will leave the tank from the bottom. Inside the tank is a white Whale pump. Ive bashed it and twisted it round and it turns. I have stuck my finger under the bottom of the white Whale cylinder which I assume sucks up the water and its solid. I expected to feel a hole for the water to go up but its either a filter or a block of ice. Dont think it can be ice though as the ice in that was in the tank has gone. 

The pipe under the other seat (front Dinette) that connects to the Whale pressure switch has come off in my hand (easy to screw it on but I have left it off to get warm air in. There was still a few bits of ice under there.

The question is, if the whale pump was sucking up water then should I not feel it when I stick my finger under it?

The toilet is still doing nothing as well.

One things for sure when this is sorted I will be trawling the posts to find out what I should have done before winter!!!!!

Cheers
BD


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Barry,

Your pump sounds OK but it is trying to pump against a pipe that is blocked solid with ice.

You might just have to be patient and wait for it to thaw slowly. That would be better as it should not do any major damage (unless it is the taps that are frozen but I doubt it now)

In an earlier post, I said that the weather forecast is for milder weather. This is for the west coast and should happen tomorrow. That might help you a lot. They are forecasting rain and strong winds also. If it is a quick thaw, make sure your site will not flood. A number of sites in the Lakes can suffer badly under these conditions.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

747 said:


> Barry,
> 
> Your pump sounds OK but it is trying to pump against a pipe that is blocked solid with ice.
> 
> ...


I think your right and reckon the ice is in the region of the hot tank and where all the hoses seem to meet and split off in different directions. I have had all the drawers out in the kitchen up to the taps and they are all warm. I now have a fan heater pointing at all the pipes under the boiler under the front dinette. Did try this once already but as I found ice under one of the hoses this morning when it fell apart it must be there.

The shower head came off in my hands yesterday so that must have had water in it. Ive lagged it back together in but it was free from ice.

Thanks for the heads up about the weather, I thought you were winding me up (to much time on the wildys!).

Ive had a look at at the BBC 5 day for kendal and it looks ok ish. We are alone on a little CL near Hawkshead. Dont think it will flood as its on a gradual slope but will let you know if you need to send the RNLI.

Thanks for helping, its really appreciated. Personally I dont care about being clean but you know what women are like.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Update. 

With loads of heat in the right places the hot water tap in the bathroom is working. I noticed first that there was gurgling near the boiler and I think it filled. I undid the bung outside confident that it was full and water spurted out so I have switched on the boiler. water is now coming out the bathroom hot tap. The cold tap turns on and the pump goes but nothing is coming out yet.

Strangely the kitchen sink taps do nothing. Not a sound or a gurgle. There is a section of pipe that goes across the floor behind the driver and passenger seats that dissapear in under the carpet and floor so maybe they are still frozen there. Nothing I can do about that.

I can see water in the pipes under the dinette that goes to the kitchen sink and its moving if you waggle the pipes but there is air in there as well as you can see it.

Progress then of a sort. It must be just be the cold.

I can not see what to do with the toilet. I think it might be knackered. Maybe there is a fuse for the pump but how the hell do you get at it? Its just a sealed loo.

Oh the joys or motorhoming! Its keeping me out of trouble though.

Dave, I think your first post was spot on (as always)


Cheers
BD


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## peeter (Aug 6, 2009)

*ice*

Move here...Copacobana Brazil.Its hot here on the beach .But we miss the MH.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

BD (barryd), glad you're making progress. There is a fuse where the toilet cassette fits, this might have blown.

Got ours sorted out now, heating on mains and all taps working on hot and cold. Ready for Germany now, just a few days to go.

Hope you get sorted, take care!


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi Barry,

Now that you have hot water, run the taps to fill up the line with hot water. Quite often, the hot and cold pipes run side by side and it might speed things up.

Also, you can get some warmth to inaccessable areas that way.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks chaps.

Both cold and hot working in the bathroom now. When you turn the cold on in the kitchen the pump is spluttering like its trying but not quite there. I reckon its on its way. 

Will check the loo outside for a fuse tomorrow, its too dark now.

Took half an hour to start the bloody bike to get to the shop and pub though! Flipping damp or ice so have covered it over in a tarpaulin. The bike only likes Med climates so I think its trying to tell us something!

Van is warm and the fridge is now full of beer. What more can go wrong????

Thanks again

Barry


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Update on the Update

All taps working although still some girgling going on in bathroom. Thanks for the tip about the fuse under the loo. Found it and stuffed one in (not sure if it was the right one) and its working again.

Sending Mrs D up on the roof in a minute to clear the snow of the dome as no signal after a big fall of snow.

Thanks again


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Sorted Barry,

enjoy your break, eat drink and be merry.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

Its good to know the FACTS people are always there to help!


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## DrRoger (Aug 21, 2010)

*Thanks!!!*

Hi, just to say thanks to everyone on this old thread.

Currently up merde-creek with our Autosleepers Devon. After Christmas outing completely forgot to drain anything!!! Lots of stressors at the moment & completely forgot.

At home at the moment so no worries about snowy showers!

It was -7 here last night & the forecast is -10 for Saturday, so no thaw in prospect. Had the van on gas blown air last night & frozen tap in the bathroom has thawed. Only a dribble of water yet & haven't dared heating the water yet.. Grey & fresh water tanks are outside so I guess they'll be frozen.

Next step is fan-heater from Tesco-make sure all pipes are warm inside & next have a bash at freshwater pipes & tanks outside. Then try the hot water again & hope...!


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