# 3500 kg weight limit



## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi All,

I have to confess to being really confused as to why, when a large part of the motorhoming population is either approaching the dreaded 70 where your licence to drive over 3500kg is in jeopardy OR a large part of the remainder learnt to drive after 1997, therefore rendering them devoid of a Class C licence...why are so many vans produced that are over 3500kg - and in many cases well over that magic number ?

As there are any number of restrictions in Europe affecting vans over this weight, and different taxation classes for those, why would manufacturers go down the road of producing so many models in excess of this figure, and who buys them? 

Is it because we now need to carry so much "stuff" that it's impossible to build a van with a decent payload on a 3500kg chassis, or is it that manufacturers cannot come up witha light enough structure to be able to offer a decent payload? 

I have met a number of people who don't have a Class C licence, and are not bothered about acquiring one, so the market must be limited. Presumably it will get more so, as more of us reach the 70 barrier, and fewer take the Class C licence. 

Are we going to find a huge glut of monster vans in the near future which no-one can sell ?

I'm confused - can anyone explain what is happening?

Smick


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

smick said:


> I have met a number of people who don't have a Class C licence, and are not bothered about acquiring one, so the market must be limited. Presumably it will get more so, as more of us reach the 70 barrier, and fewer take the Class C licence.
> 
> Are we going to find a huge glut of monster vans in the near future which no-one can sell ?


It would certainly appear to be a shrinking market.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

It certainly looks that way!
I was talking to a few French while on holiday this year and it seems that they just don't even try to comply with the weight and run overloaded as a matter of course.
I noticed nearly every A Class 4 wheel Hymer was plated at 3500kg.
I uprated mine to 4100kg but although I do have a full HGV, I will be moving back down to a 3500kg vehicle when I am 70 to avoid any medical examinations, although at current guides I would not require one.
I bet by the time I am 70 things will have changed and I will require one for between 3500kg and 7500kg similar to new drivers.


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Not sure it is a shrinking market.

If you take the view of the amount of people that take to Motor Homing and when they purchase their first vehicle.

If a person passed test at 18 in 1996, that would make them 34 now so there are loads of people that potentially would still be looking and wanting the larger vehicles, without the need for licensing upgrades


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

If I fail my medical at 70, I am going to keep hens in mine (have you seen the price of eggs 8O )

Another way around the problem is to get a 5th Wheel. You will need the B + E on your licence but no medical is required.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

smick said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have to confess to being really confused as to why, when a large part of the motorhoming population is either approaching the dreaded 70 where your licence to drive over 3500kg is in jeopardy OR a large part of the remainder learnt to drive after 1997, therefore rendering them devoid of a Class C licence...why are so many vans produced that are over 3500kg - and in many cases well over that magic number ?
> 
> ...


Over 3500kg has always been a niche market and there will always be some people with licences capable of driving them. 
I suspect that in reality there are numerous 3500kg MH's with Class B only owners who are driving over the MGW and their licences.

It is confusing because manufacturers are standardising the MIRO in line with an European directive. The quoted weights of a Chausson I had been looking at has lost 300kg for 2012 compared with 2011 in spite of being exactly the same.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

All down to money Smick.

Screw the motorist in any way they can for as much as they can.

I can just remember the days when motoring was in fact a pleasure. Now it's a burocratic nightmare fraught with hurdles and pitfalls. 
The stress just to comply with the so called privilege of being able to use a vehicle is creating cardiac stress.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We recently went around a French MH dealer in Villeneuve Sur Lot (excellent and very helpful) and were surprised that ALL of the vehicles that they had on display were marked as under the 3.5t mass (by a lot), they still had a workable payload so how do they do it?

Or do they just adopt the gallic shrug and ignore such details?

Interestingly, they were NOT small vehicles either.....

the only details we noted were a smaller fridge and often no oven, but in other respects seemed very similar to UK ones....

Mind we did not like the style of the content or layouts......

Dave


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## neilanddot (Apr 4, 2008)

Certainly there seem to be a lot of vans that are plated as 3500kg and you look at them and say no way and they will then be loaded up. When we bought ours we were very mindful of this, as with 70 a short distance off I didn't want to have to go down the route of medical check ups. Conversely as you say there seems to have been an explosion of larger vans with garages on the market in the last few years and I was thinking when I come to sell nobody would be interested in smaller vans anymore.
Neil


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

My mate just down the road is over 70 and drives a 3850 kg van and he has not had the medical or upgraded his license.
He is an ex HGV, and knows exactly what he is doing.
He even called into a VOSA road check and asked them and they told him that as long as his vehicle is not loaded above 3500kg, they would not bother him.
I told him to get it sorted as in the event of an accident he would / could be uninsured and a different VOSA official could have a different view!


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

We've had ours upgraded although we've only got 2 years to the 70 rule The kids also need the greater payload to use the van

On the continent loads of vans must have been overloaded in terms of 3500 but not necessarily in terms of safety

In Germany talking to one such one , he said they are not going to pull us in its part of the way of life and the economy, motor homers drive slowly and safely so what is the problem

I tend to agree ,but we have English plates-- and then there is the insurance

Aldra


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Grath said:


> My mate just down the road is over 70 and drives a 3850 kg van and he has not had the medical or upgraded his license.
> He is an ex HGV, and knows exactly what he is doing.
> He even called into a VOSA road check and asked them and they told him that as long as his vehicle is not loaded above 3500kg, they would not bother him.
> I told him to get it sorted as in the event of an accident he would / could be uninsured and a different VOSA official could have a different view!


He is 'Driving Otherwise Than in Accordance with a Licence' which is a police i.e criminal, matter not VOSA. He is breaking the law with a penalty in the range :
Prison 3-6 months
Fine £1,000 
Ban Discretionary 
Points 3-6


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I think it is time they changed the rules what with increasing the pension age and most of us living a healthy life style and living longer.

If you feel fit and young and have looked at what is demanded by the medical and do not have any of the complaints mentioned, why worry about it? Why not have self assessment as for lesser weights at least until 75 yrs of age?

Looking forward to still driving over 3.5 tons untill I am at least 80yrs old.

peedee


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## tulsehillboys (Jul 22, 2010)

Road tax is cheaper over 3.5t


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rayc said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > My mate just down the road is over 70 and drives a 3850 kg van and he has not had the medical or upgraded his license.
> ...


Thanks Rayc
As a holder of an International CPC in Road Transport Management, I do realize the concequences of his actions and I have told him, but how stupid of the VOSA guy to tell him it would be OK!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

tulsehillboys said:


> Road tax is cheaper over 3.5t


I know  
I retaxed mine yesterday £165


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

peedee said:


> I think it is time they changed the rules what with increasing the pension age and most of us living a healthy life style and living longer.
> 
> If you feel fit and young and have looked at what is demanded by the medical and do not have any of the complaints mentioned, why worry about it? Why not have self assessment as for lesser weights at least until 75 yrs of age?
> 
> ...


This 3500kg come from Europe so we can expect more :roll:


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## hampsterracing (Jun 2, 2011)

I had the opposite problem i couldnt find vans over 3500 !

I needed a 5/6 berth van and the only ones about were all 3500 kg plated with no way of using the berths inside the weight limit.


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

I have just had my van uprated from 3500 kgs to 3700 kgs. This will now allow a payload of 625 kgs which will prevent any overloading when my daughter and grandson plus bikes and other gear travel with us.

I do hold an old HGV Class 2, (now category 'C') licence. On reaching 70 years I will regard the annual medical as a check up which is no bad thing, and I'll be able to drive over 7 tonnes again, (should I wish to).


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

GG222 said:


> I have just had my van uprated from 3500 kgs to 3700 kgs. This will now allow a payload of 625 kgs which will prevent any overloading when my daughter and grandson plus bikes and other gear travel with us.
> 
> I do hold an old HGV Class 2, (now category 'C') licence. On reaching 70 years I will regard the annual medical as a check up which is no bad thing, and I'll be able to drive over 7 tonnes again, (should I wish to).


It's a little bit worrying though, as I would not be wanting to buy an over 3500kg gross van if I intended to still have it at 70 years of age. 
I also hold an HGV class 1 however I always worry at medical time due to blood pressure tablets. Mine are only 10 ml and last time that I renewed the DVLA medical department had to confirm it was OK before my licence could be issued. 
Also although my eyesight is excellent with specs, it does not pass the new driver requirement without specs. 
I think I will play safe and go under 3500kg when I am 70, not as it will make any difference to the size of vehicle which then makes a mockery of the whole subject.
Also, we just don't know what new rules will come along in the future.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Sorry for being mildly pedantic but the OP is really talking about Class C1 (3.5 to 7.49 tons) not C (over 3.5) 

I've met several mainland European campers who have a camper rated to over 3.5 tons but the manufacturer or supplier will quite happily plate it at 3500kg just to make it easier to drive around. Withing the vehicles mechanical limit but outside the Euro bureaucratic limit. 

One Austrian was at 4100kg but actually had wing mounted stickers saying 3500kg just to assist at motorway toll booths. I suppose stickers aren't a bad idea since they imply only, perhaps creating doubt 

And there are a fair few 3.5 ton mainland signed limits that are goods vehicle only, not campers 

To me the most obvious answers are over 3.5 tons gives a more versatile vehicle, and the possibility of running a vehicle not permanently at its design limit.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Due to my age I was limited to 3500KG. I took my C1 so I could drive my first three MH's. I now have a sub 3500KG MH. That test was worth it's weight to me though. I am now a much safer driver.

If you are spending £25K+ on a MH an extra £1K to get trained and licensed is not all that much in my opinion.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Would someone care to post a link to a simple explanation of the tests required (medical and driving) to drive a vehicle over 3500 tonnes when one is over 70 years old. Thanks.


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## jud (Aug 15, 2009)

Grath said:


> It certainly looks that way!
> I was talking to a few French while on holiday this year and it seems that they just don't even try to comply with the weight and run overloaded as a matter of course.
> I noticed nearly every A Class 4 wheel Hymer was plated at 3500kg.
> I uprated mine to 4100kg but although I do have a full HGV, I will be moving back down to a 3500kg vehicle when I am 70 to avoid any medical examinations, although at current guides I would not require one.
> I bet by the time I am 70 things will have changed and I will require one for between 3500kg and 7500kg similar to new drivers.


 hi grath. the price for your medical at 70 would it be the same as my h.g.v which as you know is every 5 years i take it at 70 its every year which would work out expensive would it not .jud


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## baldeagle7470 (Sep 21, 2010)

Penguin.
I have a 2000 Chausson Welcome 80,left hand drive,the gross weight is plated at 3,200kgs.
After purchase in the UKone of the first things I did was go to a weighbridge thinking I would probably have a very small payload.With the missus sat inside I was surprised to have close to 600kgs.
This was not fully freighted but came as a big surprise.
I do have air suspension on the rear and have since fitted scooter rack so may try the SV tech route to maybe upgrade to 3,500kgs however it only has the 1.9td engine which may be a limiting factor.It does go well providing you keep stirring the gearbox. :wink:
By the way it does have a big fridge but no oven.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

grizzlyj said:


> Sorry for being mildly pedantic but the OP is really talking about Class C1 (3.5 to 7.49 tons) not C (over 3.5)
> 
> And there are a fair few 3.5 ton mainland signed limits that are goods vehicle only, not campers


Just to be mildly pedantic in turn, in France you will find 3.5 tonne vehicle weight limit signs on roads that apply to *all* vehicles (including MHs / Camping-Cars). The background to this is that the French courts declared signs banning Camping-Cars to be illegal on the grounds that they were discriminatory. Such restrictions must apply to all classes of vehicle in order to be legally valid. As a result, the French Communes that are hostile to Camping-Cars (they do exist, believe me, and seem to be increasing in number, especially in popular tourist areas) changed tactics and simply banned all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes from using their roads. The condition is that there must be a by-pass route available with no weight restriction. The underlying intention remains the same - this ban is really aimed at large MHs / Camping-Cars, not goods vehicles. You would be taking a risk of being fined if you choose to ignore the signs, mistakenly thinking that tourists in MHs are exempt.

It is one of the many restrictions that you can avoid by staying below the 3.5 tonne gross vehicle weight. This limit is much more significant when you are touring in Europe than in the UK.

As for the perception that you can get away with running overweight in Europe, from the threads about this topic I've read on the Camping-Car Infos forum it seems that random weight checks do happen.

SD


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

jud said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > It certainly looks that way!
> ...


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

Grath said:


> It's a little bit worrying though, as I would not be wanting to buy an over 3500kg gross van if I intended to still have it at 70 years of age...


Not worrying really. If at 70 years, my state of health prevents me from driving over 3500 kgs then that's life. My main concern would be the health issue anyway rather than the maintenance of a C1 licence. And downplating would be an option.

While fit, I'll use the van without the worry of overloading, and the £50 a year saving on Road Tax will always help to keep my blood pressure in check.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi SpeedyDux 
You are quite correct regarding many 3500kg weight restrictions in France and mainland Europe and I do think that they are on the increase. 
BY the way, I also have had quite a few weigh bridge checks over the water, but only with a truck and the full monty check as I carried petrochemicals. 
Back to the M/H, I must admit that I do drive through the 3500kg restrictions as my M/H does NOT look to be of the large heavy variety. IF it did look, big and heavy, I doubt that I would. 
Please, before anybody tells my about the legal implications, I do know as a holder of the International Transport Management CPC that I am doing wrong and the consequences of any road accident while I am behaving badly.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

GG222 said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > It's a little bit worrying though, as I would not be wanting to buy an over 3500kg gross van if I intended to still have it at 70 years of age...
> ...


In my own case, I am not worried at the moment and my van is 4100kg with an over 1000kg payload (I carry everything) and I have just retaxed yesterday at £165. 
But it is the future as I do take mild blood pressure tablets that keep it totally under control but always gets refered to DVLA medical dept and hassle I could do without. 
That is why I will play safe and have a 3500kg registered van when I am 70 years of age


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

jud said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > It certainly looks that way!
> ...


Would it work out more than one fill up with fuel?


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

SpeedyDux said:


> grizzlyj said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for being mildly pedantic but the OP is really talking about Class C1 (3.5 to 7.49 tons) not C (over 3.5)
> ...


That must give the delivery drivers to the shops in those town quite a walk.


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

Regarding the renewal interval for C1 licences, I thought you have to have a medical every 3 years, not every year as for a full HGV licence. I based this on a friend's experience who has a 4100kg motorhome; he had a problem with his eyesight at 72, and was concerned that he'd not pass the medical at 73 - the 3-year re-application period for licence renewal for a normal under 3500kg licence. As it was, by the time he got to renewal his eye problem was resolved and he passed the medical. 

He had decided that if he did fail he would buy a trailer to put his motorbike on and he would still be legal - how stupid is that - he fails the medical, so can't drive the motorhome, but is 'safe' to drive a bigger outfit!

As to the renewal, I obtained this from a DVLA information pamphlet

You will need to get this Medical Examination Report (D4)filled in by a doctor if you apply for a driving licence for a;
• vehicle over 3.5 and 7.5 tonne, medium or
Large Goods Vehicle (LGV) (C1, C1+E, C or C+E)

So I presume my friend was right in that you are only "applying for a driving licence for a .... C1" every three years, so you only need the medical every three years to keep your C1 licence, it would seem. Unless anyone knows different?!!!!!!!


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

Joan has just had the medical for her license renewal at 70.

Apart from reading the eyesight chart and taking her blood pressure, height and weight measurements, a chest/heart sounding by stethoscope, it was a paper exercise with the doctor consulting her records on his computer.

Cost £115 and 1 hour in the doctors. She passed with no problems despite having shingles at the time of the medical.

I sat in as observer as it is my turn in 2013.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Traveller_HA5_3DOM said:


> jud said:
> 
> 
> > Grath said:
> ...


Hi traveller. If you read my posts in my case it is not about the money but the hassle with DVLA having to vet my Blood Pressure although it is under total control.
Maybe I em too honest with my Dr but I would rather have my licence proper that trying to hide anything.

The last time that I renewed, I was in limbo for over 6 weeks from after DVLA received my medical, waiting for their OK and not knowing if I had a job all that time. No medical pass = No job
I wonder if that helped the blood pressure.
Also Eye sight can be awkward as I have grandfather rights as I would not pass the new eyesight test for new HGV drivers. My eyesight is excellent with specs but the new tests have to meet a standard without specs and I don't. But I have no intention of driving without them and I carry a spare pair. But always another worry!


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

johnthompson said:


> Joan has just had the medical for her license renewal at 70.
> 
> Apart from reading the eyesight chart and taking her blood pressure, height and weight measurements, a chest/heart sounding by stethoscope, it was a paper exercise with the doctor consulting her records on his computer.
> 
> ...


We'll have the same issue with both of us driving, and like you, the OH getting there a couple of years before me (in about another 3 years. even with both of us to pay for, if it's every 3 years (?) the saving on RFL almost covers the costs of the medical.

It sounds like money for old rope for the doctor - they have all that info about me anyway, on a 6-monthly basis, and the optician has a proper eye test record every 2 years, including a full 'field of vision test, and a look into the back of my eyes (he says I have early signs of a cataract in one, which it doesn't sound as if the doctor wiould have picked up!). So I think I'll do as I would for any other service I'm buying - when the time comes I'lll get some quotes and go for the best value - which in this case will be lowest price.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

This might help

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_4020730.pdf


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