# Can you go on dole and claim benefits/c.tax when travelling?



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

A thought crossed my mind.

We are both tax payers  and are fully up with NI payments blah blah (36/41)

If we both quit work and went on a long holiday, maybe 6 weeks away, 2 weeks back, 6 weeks away, 2 weeks back etc..... For a year or two.

Can we register as unemployed? Assume we can.
Do we then get any benefits? 
Can we claim council tax reduction on the house? (as being unemployed rather than empty)
Are we entitled to any other government cashback 

Yeah - I know - cheeky question - but if its there then why not!!! Fed up moaning at other scroungers - if you can't beat them....  

On another question, if both "unemployed" - do we need to pay to keep our NI contributions up to date? (Both currently opted out of SERPS on the assumption pensions will be means tested by the time we get them - and we are unlikely to qualify - so take their cash now!)


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

MP's seem to get away with it [and more] but whether you would it another matter . . good luck and hope you let us know how you get on.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I think you will find that when you "sign on" you are in fact signing to say that you are "available for work". You have to do this every two weeks I think. If you are away for six weeks then you cannot be "available for work". I don't think you will get away with it. Then of course they will want to send you for interviews or training courses etc etc etc. 
Pat


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## oilslick (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, you can. You need to sign on and then tell them that you are going to another area to look for work, they will transfer your signing, and keep your "base camp" open. We did it for a bit last summer.

The main trouble is they can mess things up and it takes so long to sort things out that you might just give up!

It took me a while to get anyone to tell me that you could do this. You need to get friendly with one of them! However read up on what you cant have as savings etc. Job seekers for a couple is about £100. Savings over about £5000 start killing that.

They pay the council tax. NI contributions are covered while you are signing. Other benefits seem pretty nonexistant unless you have 12 children a few gold medallions, missing teeth etc.

Do bear in mind they wont pay anything for 12 weeks if you leave the job of your own accord.

Best to get sexually harrassed or ratially insulted first then you can claim £50k aswell as sign on immediately!!!

Also bear in mind there is an "income based" and a "contribution based" method of evaluation and they can put you on the wrong one because they dont seem to understand it all themselves!

Grant


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

oilslick said:


> Yes, you can. You need to sign on and then tell them that you are going to another area to look for work, they will transfer your signing, and keep your "base camp" open. We did it for a bit last summer.
> 
> The main trouble is they can mess things up and it takes so long to sort things out that you might just give up!
> 
> ...


Hi Grant - thanks for that.

What if you are "looking for work abroad"?

"Savings over £5000 start killing that". Hmmm. Does savings include investments like premium bonds; Isas; bonds etc; or just "cash". I can loose the cash with ease - everything else - we'd be well over.

Sexual/Racial harresment. Erm. Fat chance 

No kids, no missing teeth, own home (mortgage free), no gold rings/medalions, and no sky tv. Guess we're stuffed.

Sounds like I need a formal meeting with "a benefits clerk" - though not sure I can face waiting for hours with single teenagers with 7 kids. Hmmmm.

(To be honest - I'd be happy to just have my very expensive council tax vanish!!)


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## annetony (May 1, 2005)

Good luck to you, but I have a feeling you may not get what you want.

my son was on jobseekers and refused to go on another TWL course as he found it a waste of money, 

every one he went on he ended up looking for jobs for a couple of hours then doing nothing for the rest of the day and being bored silly --they stopped his money-- 8O we had to keep him for months till he eventually got a job.

so not as easy as you think, yet I know someone else who has not worked for over 10 years and can afford to decorate and replace furniture and carpets frequently 8O which is more than we can do-- and we both work, me with 2 jobs,-- he obviously knows how to milk the system 

Anne


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## kayg (Aug 20, 2007)

Its not quite the same but one way around it would be to do volunteer work and sign on. Lots of volunteers come to work for the RSPB near us and most sign on while they're here. It would unfortunately mean some element of work would inevitably be required.


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

You can sign on anywhere in E.U, and 'look' for work in that area, just don't expect anyone at your local job centre to know the details of how to because most of them are employed on a six month only contract.....

You can google it...

try here and look as JSA : http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/BritonsLivingAbroad/Moneyabroad/DG_4000102


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## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

slightly off topic, but following what Annetony said, my neighbours partner has been off work with severe stress for a year. He was paid by the company during that time but now all payments have ceased. He is not entitiled to any state benefits whatsoever and now has to live off his savings. The point is, that we ALL know someone who tried work once, didnt like it, so retired to live what often seems to be be a very comfortable life style paid for by the likes of you and me. For every genuine hardship case there seems to be a dozen more who know how to milk the system and get away with it

sorry Activecampers, I wasnt having a go at you, just felt like a moan! :lol:


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

i do feel sorry for your neighbours because it seems wrong to me that you work hard and then through no fault of your own can't so you have to live off your savings......until it is below £16,000 if you are a pensioner or I think (not sure) £8000 if you are work age....its easy to check, just log onto web site I mentioned before...

There are now bodies out there that can tell him his rights ie Citizans Advice ....


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Ryan and Mel, do come back to me on any of the following if needs be, if you need clarification on any point: 

The benefits system is where I provide training materials for local government staff, and have done for the past 19 years. Before that I worked in what was then the DHSS, in the areas of National Insurance, supplementary benefit and child benefit. Nowadays, I specialise in housing benefit and council tax benefit (giving money out), plus council tax and business rates (getting money in).

Let me put it to you simply: what you are proposing is fraud. It doesn't matter what people tell you, as to what you may or may not get away with - even if it comes from staff working for the relevant government department. Fraud is now taken so seriously that there is a system of penalties for even low level matters; prosecutions and a criminal record are quite common for anything higher. Neighbours are encouraged to 'grass' on anyone perceived to be fiddling the system.

Believe me, due to my work, I am party to all the documentation which the authorities get in their efforts to combat fraud. It has taken quite some time for them to realise that they save more money (by preventing new fraud before it happens and stopping existing fraud) than it costs to police the system. Local authorities are financially rewarded by the Government for their fraud work.

The means-tested side of the benefits system is where the DWP will take a detailed look at your finances. Only if your income is assessed as being below your statutory financial needs (not what you think you need!), will you then have the knock-on benefit of having to pay no council tax (though you still have to claim from your local authority). However, if you've given up work for a time (and have no other income during that period), then this might well be the case, ie, you could get 100% council tax benefit. 

However, if you do have what in the trade is described as "income above needs," you won't automatically qualify for full relief from council tax. The local authority will look at your claim (not the DWP) and will perform a detailed income and capital assessment. 

The stumbling block is where you sign to the effect that you're available for and actively seeking work (at Jobcentre Plus offices). If you're not, then you will be making a fraudulent statement each time you do that. What you have to ask yourself is what checks they will make to establish whether your situation holds true. 

Nowadays, the key players administering the benefits system - in your case, the DWP (which incorporates Jobcentre Plus) and local authorities, have computer systems which talk to each other and flag up any inequities relating to income and personal circumstances. So, you have to be totally on the ball to ensure you give the same information each time, otherwise alarm bells could ring and an investigation begin.

It's certainly the case that you can sign on pretty much where you like, but DWP staff handling jobseeker's allowance are not stupid. The low level minions might be disinterested in what you do, but there are line managers and above who take things much more seriously.

Yes, if you're careful and watch your back all the time, you could get away with what you're proposing. But, you're not talking a few weeks here; you're contemplating this for a year or two. 

Let me remove all possible doubt: You could be prosecuted if caught and jail sentences are by no means uncommon if the sums involved are high enough, which could be the case over a lengthy 'unemployment' period.

Shaun


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Shark said:


> Ryan and Mel, do come back to me on any of the following if needs be, if you need clarification on any point:
> 
> The benefits system is where I provide training materials for local government staff, and have done for the past 19 years. Before that I worked in what was then the DHSS, in the areas of National Insurance, supplementary benefit and child benefit. Nowadays, I specialise in housing benefit and council tax benefit (giving money out), plus council tax and business rates (getting money in).
> 
> ...


Shaun - thanks for a lengthy post.
:twisted: :twisted: In what way is this fraud? I have not mentioned lying. I have not mentioned I'd be looking for work. I was asking a question with no lie. Registering as unemployed will not be a lie. (If I have to tick a box saying "I am seeking work" - then yes this would be a lie - but I do not know if this is the case and I would not lie)
So please - do not assume it is in any way fradulant.

If you read the questions with an open mind - you will see I'm asking based on true statements - what would be avaialble should we quit work.

(PS - sorry if anyone needs handouts and can't get them - I am simply asking a question - not trying to rip anything off)

ANYWAY 

if council tax reduction is means tested - then we will not get this.

Also I'm asking if we need to carry on paying NI to keep health/pension up to date.

And as you seem to know what you are on about, are you actually saying that if people like ourselves fancy a "sabatical" for, say, a year, then we are still liable for full council tax and also are not eligable for anything else? Is it worth having a chat at the local office?

Cheers

PS#1 - I'm almost always 100% honest - so no way is lying on the agenda
PS#2 - This is ideas/research side at present so we can plan budget if/when we do this.
PS#3 - Neither of us are scared of hard work!!! Far from it. We just plan a change for fun! We may well do volunteering work but do not want this in the equation.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

As an IT Manager, why don't you go self employed? You could do that from anywhere in a van and please yourself how much effort you put into it. It could keep you ticking over if nothing else. As a home owner and no mortgage, you could even rent out your house for further income instead of selling it. 

Why do you need to even contemplate "unemployment"?

peedee


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## 107384 (Oct 1, 2007)

ActiveCampers said:


> Shark said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan and Mel, do come back to me on any of the following if needs be, if you need clarification on any point:
> ...


Thing is, by registering as unemployed and claiming benefits, it is on the proviso that you are looking for work, so therefore it would be classed as benefit fraud.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Ryan,

While you're 'not working' you might be able to get your loft stuffed with insulation and your wall cavities filled (with stuff that breaches the cavity and negates the reason for having one in the first place) for free if it's in need.

I contacted the much lauded Energy Saving people about getting some insulation improvements and apparently if you're on benefit it's free.

OT - as usual they also repeated their mantra about drafts, tank lagging, lighting etc, most of which most people have already acted on. It's time they upped their game and gave some real advice. Sorry end of rant.

Andy


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

OK, I can see that you didn't state categorically that you were going to lie, nor that you'd be looking for work. Indeed, what you put forward was hypothetical. But you did ask the question as to whether you could quit work, register as unemployed and then claim associated benefits. I'm just clarifying what could happen should you do that. I'm also very wary of people giving out incorrect information which could land you in hot water. I'd prefer to give you it as it is, then you can make up your own minds.

Leaving your home empty whilst you go on a sabatical won't relieve you from council tax, unless it ceases to be your sole or main residence. People in the services have been abroad on active duty and have still had to pay their council tax. 

The benefits system is there for people whose income is below the statutory minimum, or whose circumstances warrant extra income, for example due to disabilities or the caring of those who are disabled. There's nothing in the benefits system that I'm aware of which will hand out dosh to those who want to pack in work for a while. In short, you would be expected to support yourselves.

As for national insurance contributions (NICs), you can pay the flat-rate, voluntary Class 3 contribution whilst you are not working, nor covered by credits due to your receiving jobseeker's allowance. However, in general terms your state pension is safeguarded so long as you pay contributions for (rather a high) percentage of your working life. Much depends on whether you have any gaps in your contribution record, which would be further impacted upon by not being employed for a time. If in doubt, you would need to contact HM Revenue & Customs National Insurance.

Although council tax benefit is means tested, that doesn't mean to say you wouldn't get anything. If your income is reduced due to your giving up work, the local authority would perform an income versus needs assessment. Capital, which consists of all the things you've mentioned, is partially disregarded, as the first £6,000 is ignored. Anything more is deemed to generate a weekly income, which is then taken into account as part of your income. This assumes you don't have capital over £16,000, in which case you're not entitled to benefit, regardless of any other circumstances.

So, whilst those whose income is below the statutory threshold, generally receive a 100% rebate of council tax, others can still receive anything from a few bob a week, right up to almost the full amount. Everything depends on income in relation to statutory needs. 

You don't need to be registered as unemployed, nor be claiming jobseeker's allowance in order to claim council tax benefit. Many people are non-employed, perhaps living off the likes of savings, maintenance, grant or unearned income. The local authority just looks at your income from all sources and compares that with your statutory needs. Then depending on your council tax liability, you might be entitled to a rebate.

Hope this helps.

Shaun


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

peedee said:


> As an IT Manager, why don't you go self employed? You could do that from anywhere in a van and please yourself how much effort you put into it. It could keep you ticking over if nothing else. As a home owner and no mortgage, you could even rent out your house for further income instead of selling it.
> 
> Why do you need to even contemplate "unemployment"?
> 
> peedee


Hi Peedee: Why? Why not?!  For the first year at least it would be more of a holiday - climbing, exploring, adventure type. No time or inclination to work during this period. Don't want to rent for various reasons - again not really a need to; and we'll be back frequently for vairious reasons. The questions herein aren't "how can I afford to do it" or "how can I make extra money" (though that will come I'm sure!!) - its more "what do we get of Government (if anything) as we don't know. Have to admit we expect nothing but I thought council tax may be reduced. After adventre I'm sure we'll sort something!
*ANYWAY * I'm only asking a quesion IF - nothing certain yet!

@Liquid: I see what you are saying. I thought you could register as unemployed (as you, by definition, are not employed) - and I thought claiming (say Job seekers allowance) would be another process (which I would not consider).

@bouncer: Thanks for link - not that helpful though as we won't be living in one place (moreso touring) and more JSA related.


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Can you go on dole and claim benefits/c.tax when travell*



ActiveCampers said:


> A thought crossed my mind.
> 
> We are both tax payers  and are fully up with NI payments blah blah (36/41)
> 
> ...


If you deliberately throw yourself out of work without good reason, you will be barred from seeking benefits for 26 weeks. ( and rightly so)

As a British Citizen, you cannot claim job seekers allowance whilst you are out of the UK. You must register and claim the in the country you are residing at the time. This means you MUST inform the Jobcentre you are temporarily visiting another country either for a holiday or any other reason you will have to sign off before you leave, and sign back on when you return.

It does not matter if you are actively seeking employement in another country, you must sign off.

The Unemployed in the UK are not afforded the same rights as other people and allowed to take a ( European laws ) minium of 24days paid holiday from actively seeking work. However, the benefits agency informed me that it's perfectly ok for the unemployed to take a holiday in the UK and get paid all their benefits upto a maximum of two weeks.

With regards to NI contributions, you must pay your own contributions when your not actively seeking employement. These contribution are the absolute minimum and do not allow you to get any other benefits you normally may get such as Disabled Living Allowance etc.

Personally, when it happened to me I said STUFF THEM, I signed off paid my own stamp, then signed back, then off, then on, then off, then on.
They soon got the message, THEY DID NOT know what was happening as the paperwork could not keep up.

If you get made redundant, Whip Wooo, loads of money, But remember you will have to sign EVERY two weeks just so the benefits agency will pay your NI contribution EVEN though you may have a few thousand pound the week before You wont get Jobseekers until all money paid as money in leu of notice runs out 26 weeks in my case.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

ActiveCampers said:


> For the first year at least it would be more of a holiday - climbing, exploring, adventure type. No time or inclination to work during this period.


I think quite a lot of current tax payers would enjoy a break like this, given they could afford to be self-supporting and do it.



> its more "what do we get of Government (if anything) as we don't know.


However, ask yourself where the government gets it's money from ? Answer; by raising taxes. It raises taxes from those who work. I can't imagine how delighted those that you ask for benefits will be to think of their cash going to fund your holidays.

I fear you're expecting too much...much too much.

Have you thought of upping sticks altogether for a period and going to work abroad somewhere more interesting where you can holiday in the breaks from work ? Slovenia does a lot of the activities you mention and there was a need for English speaking leaders there.

G


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dole*

Hi

The "dole" is what is now known as JSA - Job seekers allowance. To claim this - about £60 per week, you can fill out the forms on line etc and they are sunmitted. You will then receive a telephone call from the processing centre who will make an appointment for you to see the local "job centre plus". Here, you will "sign on". You will be required to return to the same office every fortnight, to sign on again, and take with you proof of "actively seeking employment" etc.

This would be tricky to achive if you were in Blackpool one week and Scarborough a fortnight later!

If you have left your own job through your own volition, you will also have to complete various forms stating why you left work etc and the job centre will contact your previous employers.

Regards

R


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

@all: JSA is clearly not an option - happy with that - it would be a lie as we would not be looking

@Grizzly: Too much  I was only asking  Yes we've thought about other jobs (ski resort; mountain leaders; voluntry; own business etc etc - but can't consider this till year 2 for reasosns i wont go in to). I've been paying far too much tax for years - I just wondered if I could get it back  


@Zozzer: Yep - rightly so as you say. I'm only asking just in case it was possiblle. I'd hate to miss out. Thanks re: NI. As for redundancy - been there - done that - got the cheque - not this time though 


@Shark: Cheers for update. Sounds like its all a no 

@ Steamdriverandy: Loft ftuffed; no water tank (high pressuere unvented system); energy lightbulbs where possible.




Ah well - thought out of windows - budget as was.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

PS Forgot to say; I enjoyed your blog when I found it some time ago- keep it up and I hope some solution comes up to your travel hopes.

G


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

:lol: Sorry but cannot resist :lol: 
go to office speak in pigeon english claim you are from kosovo or a afgan preacher,ALL probs solved :lol: 
terry
how do gyipses go on ?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dole*

Hi

Forgot to say, payments for JSA etc are not always means tested. If you have paid full NI for the last two years, you should not be means tested.

R


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## 107384 (Oct 1, 2007)

I think that the easiest way of looking at is that the benefits system is there to help those who need financial assistance.

If you can afford to buy and run a motorhome, you can afford to look after yourself financially, so therefore claimign benefits in order to supplement your income in that manner would be fraudulent. (obviously for those with disability issues, this is slightly different but again this is tested)

It doesn't matter if you are not the stereotypical council estate 'scrounger', it's still benefit fraud in anyone's language. I'd recommend you think again about this :wink:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Just for interest - my guess is six more posts before this gets put in the Members Bar! :? :roll:


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

Just hang out in the warmer climes of the UK! - There are few places you can't get back from once a week to sign on, and you need to do '6 things' a fortnight to prove you are actively seeking work. + go to courses etc when they tell you. As you say you plan to be home for some weeks, plan it round their courses.

Got to get kicked out of work though - with a reason that will not blot your CV for years to come. So don't chuck the boss through a window! You need to keep in touch at all times with your local offices by mobile. - Until they are sick hearing from you.

I had a patient who went to any interviews without washing or changing clothes so that he stank. No work for him!!! Nose picking was high on his list too.

Who knows, with no pressure, you may find an idyllic job for life!!!! - Worth a gap to secure a really desirable career change.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Just for interest - my guess is six more posts before this gets put in the Members Bar! :? :roll:


You old cynic you ! You've been here before ? 

G


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

Shark said:


> Leaving your home empty whilst you go on a sabatical won't relieve you from council tax, unless it ceases to be your sole or main residence. People in the services have been abroad on active duty and have still had to pay their council tax.


Won't your van be your main residence?


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

No. The laws and associated court cases have long covered what sole or main residence is. If someone in the services is abroad for quite some time and can't claim their billet over there is there main residence, then someone touring in a motorhome isn't going to get away with it either. Bear in mind that this particular home isn't being left empty and will be returned to at a later date. That makes any absence from it temporary and thus will still attract council tax.

Shaun


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

Hmmm, glad I don't own a brick! How much is council tax these days anyway?


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Depends on the size of your motorhome.















:wink:


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

bandaid said:


> Depends on the size of your motorhome.
> 
> :wink:


It'd fit in one of your lockers! :wink:


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Damn, I have been hiding it behind yours for a week. I was hoping you wouldnt notice.

So, come on then, what gave me away.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Asking what council tax is for is more revealing, and the answer depressing.

(Pretty sure it's Boudica nowadays, spelling-wise)

Dave


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## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

My husband was made redundant (company went bust) 7months before he was 65. He had to sign on every two weeks and provide evidence that he was actively looking for work ie. Letters applying for and being turned down for jobs. He was glad when his 65th birthday came! Now I have to go out to work to keep him in the manner to which he has become accustomed :lol:


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

What about pensioners (including occupational) on or just above the minimum income level? What can they claim? 

I will tell you sweet FA, unless you can utter thee magic word BENEFIT.

Graham


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I take on board all the expert advice that has been given by, well, experts and discounting the kitchen lawyer advice that is merely uninformed opinion I still come to the same conclusion.

How is it that "travellers", seemingly fit people, drop-out hippies, foreign preachers, "economic" migrants, illegal immigrants and so on seem to be able to milk the system at will?

It makes my blood boil!!


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## tombo5609 (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, Not as easy as it was when Maggie Thatcher was in and half the country on benefit but of course we didnt have high unemployment figures or so they say!!!. Remember what Norman Tebbit said, just get on your bike and look for work, or MH as the case may be> Good luck,
Tom


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## rocky58 (May 11, 2005)

What about pension credit over 60's

A guy I know got sacked at 62 signed on, a week or so later called him in
office and told hime he could get pension credit.
I rang up about it and the staff at newcastle said the actively encouraged people to go on pension credit probably keeps unemployment figures down.
I am still working at 61 though but it is nice to know about these things 
just in case


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## rocky58 (May 11, 2005)

These may help in not getting a job when you go for interview

ask the question is there a union here
last place I worked I was a shop steward
I smoke
Am a white male (resent press coverage about new discrimination law)


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Best advice is available from your local *****!

(Or Jim Davidson!)


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