# Handling with scooter & rack fitted



## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

I have followed this recent thread with interest http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-102294-days0-orderasc-0.html

I would like to be able to carry a scooter but will not consider towing at all. I have carried out the calulations in the Practical MH guide that Barryd posted. Based on the guide weight for scooter and rack being 150kg I would be at my absolute limit on both total weight and rear axle weight.

My previous front axle weight would decrease from 1520 to 1438kg while my rear would increase from 1860 to 2072. This is 12kg over the max rear allowance!

Assuming I can play with weight rearranging/lessening and just get on the rear max weight, I would be interested to hear comments from others on changes to handling with such an imbalance at the front end and whether I should just forget the whole idea?

Andrew


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## tramp (May 25, 2005)

its a bit like having a Renault ass... shakes all over even with airride fitted.

but that was a std fiat chassy not a alco extension as fitted to the knaus, the Renault master are far better than the fiat std chassy and lower and wider to so the roll might not be as noticible.

We mdified the rear towbar mounting points to fit [2] outrunners to take a home built scotter rack out of box alloy very light and strong, carried a 100cc scotter no probs that was on a dethleffs esprit on the reanault master we had..


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

In that previous thread I stated there was no difference in handling. Others have stated the opposite so I can only assume then that all vans are perhaps effected differently. 

I like you had the logic to rearrange stuff to increase the front weight. I stuff a folding mountain bike in the luton and various other bits and pieces. Here is the thing though. When we go on a long trip we probably end up putting too much stuff in the Luton like 50 jars of Lemon Tea and various other odds and sods. This is the only time I feel the handling isn't as good. The van tends to wallow about in the wind or when large vehicles pass on the motorway it does feel scary. I suspect however this could be down to the fact I have too much weight high up. It never feels light on the front though.

Once we reduce the weight a bit from the Luton it improves. I think it looks like your going to have to shop around for a lightweight scooter like ours. There isn't much under 120KG but there are some which I think were mentioned in the previous thread. Ive been looking at the Piaggio Liberty 125 lately but cant find a second hand one. I think they are around the 100KG (Dry weight) mark. Mrs D says we should stick with the racey Speedfight II but its a 2004 model, not done a lot of miles at all but it must be about fit to burst after all the stick its been given! 

I hope you manage to get it sorted!

EDIT: just read the post above. I wonder if having an Alko chassis makes a difference. Our rack fitted by Armitage is bolted into the Alko Chassis and its as solid as a rock, almost just an extention of the chassis. Just a thought.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks to you both. I am not sure if it is an Alko chassis or not. It is very low but goes right to the back and there is space to come up behind the valance before exiting for the rack so not to effect the ground clearance on the overhang. I would not put on a tow bar so I think one could design a lighter rack that would bolt direct on to the chassis. Perhaps even remove the rear valance and keep the rack higher with numberplate and light incorporated. 

Still that is the fun design bit. I don't want to get carried away if it is all running to close to the limits. Much of my heavy weight is not movable eg batteries and Gaslow. Just have to dump some water.


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## tony645 (Sep 26, 2010)

Mine doesnt seem to make any difference at all to the handling, Alko amc chassis, however, I have removed the spare wheel and carrier as that weighed a ton and now carry a couple of containers of slime for punctures and if I was unfortunate to tear a tyre I can swap a wheel being a tag axle. I have Yamaha cygnus 125 @125kgs, easylifter @ 30kgs and the towbar weighs around 30kgs.
We dont carry anything heavy in the garage and I`ve moved the genny to one of the front lockers.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

It does seem like quite a low down chassis but a quick google says its a Renault Chassis. Im no expert though so hopefully somebody will be along who is. The Alko thing might just be a red herring. I assumed our handling was ok because of the low Alko chassis and long wheel base.

We had to have a tow bar fitted as well as the rack for both the electrics and to re-enforce the rack (I think). The rack, tow bar and bike added 150KG or there abouts.

You could always email Armitage Trailers, they were really helpful to me although they are a good distance from you. These guys are nearer but I havent dealt with them http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier.html

and Armitage

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/motorhomes.htm


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

tony645 said:


> Mine doesnt seem to make any difference at all to the handling, Alko amc chassis, however, I have removed the spare wheel and carrier as that weighed a ton and now carry a couple of containers of slime for punctures and if I was unfortunate to tear a tyre I can swap a wheel being a tag axle. I have Yamaha cygnus 125 @125kgs, easylifter @ 30kgs and the towbar weighs around 30kgs.
> We dont carry anything heavy in the garage and I`ve moved the genny to one of the front lockers.


I hadn't thought about the spare wheel, what would that weigh? That and the carrier are the lowest ground clearance I have. (see pic) It is also incredible inaccessible, I have done a dry run and carry Triple Milenco ramps to enable it. The Quads would not fit under the skirt!. I don't like not having one but it could be an either/or with scooter or spare on rack! Thanks for the idea. My concern on handling was in imbalance with low weight on front axle. I don't have a Luton top to move weight into.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

tony645 said:


> Mine doesnt seem to make any difference at all to the handling, Alko amc chassis, however, I have removed the spare wheel and carrier as that weighed a ton and now carry a couple of containers of slime for punctures and if I was unfortunate to tear a tyre I can swap a wheel being a tag axle. I have Yamaha cygnus 125 @125kgs, easylifter @ 30kgs and the towbar weighs around 30kgs.
> We dont carry anything heavy in the garage and I`ve moved the genny to one of the front lockers.


Thats a very good point actually. The spare wheel must easily be 20KG? If not more. That would tip things in your favour. Actually it would allow me to get a slightly heavier bike as well!

Is it not a legal requirement to have a spare?

We did have to put ours on once but Im not fussed really. We have breakdown cover and I would never change it myself anyway.

Hmm.


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

*scooter*

Hello Andrew. We own a 2005 Pilote Atlantis 5. Boxer chassis. I have had your problem. The chassis on your M/H looks similar to ours. It has a small extention after the rear spring hanger bracket. A tow bar has to be fabricated and beef,d up from there. I looked on a towbar website up in Yorkshire and the bar was about 480pounds fitted, plus a bolton scooter rack another 380pounds + the scooter secondhand say 500pounds. I have bought a folding Wisper electric bike as new still under warrentee, its magic. I am 13.1/2stone It flys about the place, 9pence a charge, also it goes out of sight in the garage with no weight problems weighing 22 kilo,s. I am looking for another now for the betterhalf. P/M me if you wish. John


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

*Re: scooter*



salmonfisher said:


> Hello Andrew. We own a 2005 Pilote Atlantis 5. Boxer chassis. I have had your problem. The chassis on your M/H looks similar to ours. It has a small extention after the rear spring hanger bracket. A tow bar has to be fabricated and beef,d up from there. I looked on a towbar website up in Yorkshire and the bar was about 480pounds fitted, plus a bolton scooter rack another 380pounds + the scooter secondhand say 500pounds. I have bought a folding Wisper electric bike as new still under warrentee, its magic. I am 13.1/2stone It flys about the place, 9pence a charge, also it goes out of sight in the garage with no weight problems weighing 22 kilo,s. I am looking for another now for the betterhalf. P/M me if you wish. John


I see what you mean about the chassis extension. The five bolts show clearly in the pic with the spare wheel. They would take all the stress. I don't want to fit a tow bar so it would be a question on the the load moment on those bolts that the rack and scooter would create. Thanks
Andrew


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## tony645 (Sep 26, 2010)

I had my towbar made by a pal who has a fabrication company so its quite bespoke, reason is I also tow a bike trailer for when I take the big bike which weighs in at about 300kgs, I couldnt see the point of paying £600 from one of the towbar specialists.
The easylifter is a great bit of kit and just clamps on to it, solid as hell and if I`m not mistaken theres one for sale on mhfun at the moment for £180 and looks as good as new.
I`ll take some pics of it perhaps tomorrow cos its dark now but its got the scooter on too cos we`re off to Ambleside aire in the morning to celebrate our ruby wedding in the mh.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

tony645 said:


> I had my towbar made by a pal who has a fabrication company so its quite bespoke, reason is I also tow a bike trailer for when I take the big bike which weighs in at about 300kgs, I couldnt see the point of paying £600 from one of the towbar specialists.
> The easylifter is a great bit of kit and just clamps on to it, solid as hell and if I`m not mistaken theres one for sale on mhfun at the moment for £180 and looks as good as new.
> I`ll take some pics of it perhaps tomorrow cos its dark now but its got the scooter on too cos we`re off to Ambleside aire in the morning to celebrate our ruby wedding in the mh.


Congratulations! A lovely place to celebrate!


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

*Re: scooter*



andrewball1000 said:


> salmonfisher said:
> 
> 
> > I see what you mean about the chassis extension. The five bolts show clearly in the pic with the spare wheel. They would take all the stress. I don't want to fit a tow bar so it would be a question on the the load moment on those bolts that the rack and scooter would create. Thanks
> ...


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## tony645 (Sep 26, 2010)

M parkinson in lancs and PWS in Poole both do them, saw one of parkinsons on an Escape the other week and looked a really nice bit of kit, fits straight onto the chassis


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## tony645 (Sep 26, 2010)

pics


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