# MPPT Solar Controller warning



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ive just been sorting the van out for our pending trip and a warning alarm has sounded on the MPPT Controller.

Its this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20A-MPPT-...369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259ed94a21

I think quite a few people bought them.

There was just a continuous loud alarm and the code F1 which according to the manual which is a bit basic says "Overcharge and the charger will automatically cut off output."

The only way I could stop it was to pull out the inline fuse, put it back in again and it seems fine. Battery new last year and its showing fully charged and amps going in via the controller.

Typically there have been 3 different mechanics including an auto electrician working on this van recently. The alternator has been replaced and I know they have been in the back checking the leisure battery was charging (mainly as they left a mess).

Any thoughts before we head off into the sunset?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You need to speak to either Peter or Andy (techno100) Barry, I gave my maual away so couldn't look anyway, although I may have a pdf.

Emailing Eric (the seller tech) about it might help you find out more too.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Link to PDF Bazza


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Kev, it also says it may be a bad battery connection on the next page of the manual which would make sense if they have been faffing around with it but I don't think they will have had the leisure battery out, just checked its charging. I had a quick tug of the wires and they all seem ok. Its not happened again since I reset it. One off maybe?

I hate people crawling around my van. I dont trust anyone. Someones broke a bit of the plastic on the rear run of the door blind which luckily ive been able to fix without it showing but the blind was out of the runners, there is oil on the bottom of the dinette seat pillar fabric and its come away a bit like an oily boot has hoofed it and the shower tray was full of all sorts of crap god knows why. I would kick up a fuss but I have no idea which one of the clod hoppers has been careless.

Wish I could do it all myself and never let anyone near the van again. Ill email Eric. Is he Maximum Solar on ebay then?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

[email protected]


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Mine does the same quite often Baz. I've guessed that if the solar is busy putting charge in and you start the engine the controller sees that and realises that too much charge is going in so it stops charging and sets the alarm going. Like you I have to take the fuse out to stop the alarm though I can usually put it straight back in and the alarm stays off. It's a nuisance for sure, Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cheers

I already contacted him via ebay.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Let me know what he says Baz. Same controller, Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Alan, Our threads crossed before and I missed you other post. I kind of figured it probably wasnt anything to worry about although I had moved the van half an hour earlier and the engine was off when the alarm started. I only noticed it as I could hear it from the drive, Unless it had been going for a while since I parked and I didnt know.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I hate to ask you this Barry, But where on earth are you taking your van to get all those problems, If you will pick these back street lockups then ok, but if it is a well known place I would not put up with getting my pride and joy back in such a sorry state. I would have told them about the mess and let them know that a valet inside is being done and you expect them to pay, They will either say not their fault or offer to valet it for you, or even agree to paying.
If the former then spread the word that they are rubbish and do not take care of customers vehicles.
So stop prostrating yourself and accepting the footprints all over you and get onto them now.

cabby


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

cabby said:


> I hate to ask you this Barry, But where on earth are you taking your van to get all those problems, If you will pick these back street lockups then ok, but if it is a well known place I would not put up with getting my pride and joy back in such a sorry state. I would have told them about the mess and let them know that a valet inside is being done and you expect them to pay, They will either say not their fault or offer to valet it for you, or even agree to paying.
> If the former then spread the word that they are rubbish and do not take care of customers vehicles.
> So stop prostrating yourself and accepting the footprints all over you and get onto them now.
> 
> cabby


No its a well know reputable garage in Darlington and I would have said something had I discovered it at the time but to recap back to the problem I had with the trailer board rewiring I took it to the local grease monkey who then buggered up the electrics, it then went to my normal garage in town who then passed it onto the supposedly best Auto Electrics company in town, ive only just noticed the oil and the other stuff took me while to notice so it would be impossible to pinpoint where it happened and who did it.

Our garage are normally quite careful as mechanics go so I suspect it wasnt them.

None of it is serious but its bloody annoying.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

I think you get that error if you disconnect the battery before you disconnect the solar panels.
Should always disconnect the panels first.
So if your auto-electricians were playing with the batteries that is more than likely what happened


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

How to prevent it recurring? I take the fuse out where the solar +ve connects to the battery but it still does it every time I start the engine, Alan.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Have you powered it down and then powered it back up again in the correct order?
ie connect battery then connect solar panels.
I don't know what its start up procedure is but it is processor driven I think and may well do some auto calibrate.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Pardon my ignorance but if I take the fuse out of the +ve on the supply from the solar regulator doesn't that power it down? I haven't then disconnected and reconnected the batteries as I assume that without the fuse that wouldn't be detected by the solar regulator anyway? I then put the fuse back in which seems to me to be powering it down and back up again. I could take the fuse out, disconnect the battery then reconnect (battery first then the fuse) but why would that make a difference?


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

erneboy said:


> How to prevent it recurring? I take the fuse out where the solar +ve connects to the battery but it still does it every time I start the engine, Alan.


Do you disconnect the solar panels before removing the fuse at the battery?

I am pretty certain that the solar panel(s) should be connected AFTER the battery is connected and disconnected BEFORE the battery is disconnected for proper operation of the solar regulator.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

erneboy said:


> Pardon my ignorance but if I take the fuse out of the +ve on the supply from the solar regulator doesn't that power it down? I haven't then disconnected and reconnected the batteries as I assume that without the fuse that wouldn't be detected by the solar regulator anyway? I then put the fuse back in which seems to me to be powering it down and back up again. I could take the fuse out, disconnect the battery then reconnect (battery first then the fuse) but why would that make a difference?


It is not only to do with removing the power link between regulator and battery, you also have to remove the power link from the solar panels to the regulator.

As I said above...

Disconnect - panels then battery
Connect - battery then panels


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I've read the manual and I don't see any of this information Siggie.

You're saying take the +ve coming from the panels out of the regulator (though I'm still baffled as to how the regulator knows whether the +ve is connected or not if the circuit is interrupted because the fuse at the battery end is out) and take the fuse beside the battery out of the +ve from the regulator then reconnect them? In what order please? 

I had a battery replaced under warranty so I know that the bloke who did it connected the batteries up first then put the fuses back in including the fuse on the +ve from the solar regulator, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

siggie said:


> Disconnect - panels then battery
> Connect - battery then panels


Spot on, the controller needs to see the battery first, leave it a little while, then connect the panel, that's the advice when buying a panel or a controller, so if Bazzas muppets did disconnect the LBs etc, the panel needs to be disconnected for a while "carefully as it'll be producing, so don't let the +ve touch earth, then connect it up after leaving it for a while.

Wiring
CAUTION! Be sure to secure all wiring, especially for mobile applications. Use cable
clamps to prevent cables from swaying when the vehicle is in motion. Unsecured cables
create loose and resistive connections which may cause excessive heating or fire
Step 1: DC Load Wiring
The load output will provide battery voltage to connected loads such as lights,
monitors and other electronic devices.
Step 1: connect load positive (+) wire to the positive terminal of the unit and load
negative (-) wire to the negative terminal of the unit.
Step 2: install a DC Breaker or a DC fuse holder in a positive wire. The rating of the DC
Breaker/Fuse must be according to the charging current (40 Amp). Keep the DC breaker
off or do not install the DC fuse.
WARNING! Please use the appropriate cable size according to load rating. Please refer
to Important Safety Warnings Section for the details. It will prevent internal high
temperature.
Step 2: Battery Wiring
Step 1: connect battery positive (+) wire to the positive terminal of the unit and load
negative (-) wire to the negative terminal of the unit.
Step 2: install a DC Breaker or a DC fuse holder in a positive wire. The rating of the
DC Breaker/Fuse must be according to the charging current (40 Amp). Keep the
DC breaker off or do not install the DC fuse.

From the instructions for Barrys controller.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks everyone especially Kev for that in depth instruction. I think it seems ok now. I moved the van back onto the drive and (as far as I know  ) the alarm not gone off again. Will keep an eye on it before I go and start ripping wires out.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Thanks everyone especially Kev for that in depth instruction. I think it seems ok now. I moved the van back onto the drive and (as far as I know  ) the alarm not gone off again. Will keep an eye on it before I go and start ripping wires out.


Best just to carefully undo them Barry, less hassle later mate > >

I would just disconnect the Panel, the positive only will do, where you disconnect is up to you, go have a brew then reconnect


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Those instructions tell you to connect to the controller but not to put the fuse in, I assume it's referring to a fuse between the panels and the controller. 

It then says to connect to the battery but not to put the fuse in there either.

So far so good. We have all the wiring correctly in place but we haven't put the fuses in.

Then it says: Step 4: Switch on DC breaker or install DC fuse After completing all wires, double check if all wires are connected well. Then switch on DC breaker or install DC fuse on. Take off the cover of solar module. When the solar module power is above 15V, the charger will automatically turn on to work.

But the above seems to indicate that there's only one fuse despite the wiring instructions seeming to refer to two fuses or breakers. I don't see where it says which order to put the fuses in or to switch the breakers on.

Probably just me being stupid, I'm sure Kev is correct. Unfortunately it's going to be difficult for me to get at the controller to disconnect a wire or fit a fuse due to the way the experts fitted it in the first place. It's bonded in to the corner of a cupboard and the wires from the panel go straight through the roof. Does the cover come off it to reveal the terminals holding the wires? Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Those instructions tell you to connect to the controller but not to put the fuse in, I assume it's referring to a fuse between the panels and the controller.
> 
> It then says to connect to the battery but not to put the fuse in there either.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a problem Alan, can you access the connections to the panel on the roof or in a cupboard, perhaps actually cut the positive side feed to the controller from the panel, and then fit a connector or a decent quality HD switch in case it eve needs to be done again, as so many times the muckynecks will disconnect the VB without thinking about the solar side to do other jobs.


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## valphil (Sep 5, 2012)

Blimey Barry , it doesn't bode well for the trip if your having problems before you've even set off . take plenty of tools


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

valphil said:


> Blimey Barry , it doesn't bode well for the trip if your having problems before you've even set off . take plenty of tools


Why not, Michelle always takes one > >


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

valphil said:


> Blimey Barry , it doesn't bode well for the trip if your having problems before you've even set off . take plenty of tools


No, this is nothing. Its way to early for anything serious to break. We are not going for 9 days yet. Usually its 1-3 days before departure that something serious goes wrong. It will be a part that is only now available from Nigeria. Last year Mrs D put her hand through the Camos Dome cover 3 days before we left and I had to drive Manchester to get another one.

As far as I know there are two wires coming from the battery and on one is a fuse which I pull out to reset the controller. There are then two wires going to the panel. All are easily accessible. Is there any point though in me doing anything if its now working?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Pulled it off the wall and got enough spare wire on the +ve from the panels to put a connector block in it. I see the terminals now, couldn't see them before because of how it was mounted. It's now mounted where I can get at it though I see why they did what they did, it needed to be where it was to read the screen. I have to stand on a chair to see it now. It is not visible at much of an angle. 

Don't have a fuse holder big enough but will get a couple, connector block will do for now. Have reconnected, battery first and will see if that cures the problem. Though the solar did always work perfectly before, it was just that damned alarm driving me nuts a few minutes after the engine was started. 

Ta, will post the result next week when we head off again, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> No, this is nothing. Its way to early for anything serious to break. We are not going for 9 days yet. Usually its 1-3 days before departure that something serious goes wrong. It will be a part that is only now available from Nigeria. Last year Mrs D put her hand through the Camos Dome cover 3 days before we left and I had to drive Manchester to get another one.
> 
> As far as I know there are two wires coming from the battery and on one is a fuse which I pull out to reset the controller. There are then two wires going to the panel. All are easily accessible. Is there any point though in me doing anything if its now working?


Yes you muppet, it is still working but not properly:roll:

DISCONNECT THE PANEL AND LEAVE IT FOR A BIT, THE CONTROLLER WILL THEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT IS AND WHAT IT NEEDS TO CONTROL :crying::crying: I CAN'T COPE ANY MORE


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Pulled it off the wall and got enough spare wire on the +ve from the panels to put a connector block in it. I see the terminals now, couldn't see them before because of how it was mounted. It's now mounted where I can get at it though I see why they did what they did, it needed to be where it was to read the screen. I have to stand on a chair to see it now. It is not visible at much of an angle.
> 
> Don't have a fuse holder big enough but will get a couple, connector block will do for now. Have reconnected, battery first and will see if that cures the problem. Though the solar did always work perfectly before, it was just that damned alarm driving me nuts a few minutes after the engine was started.
> 
> Ta, will post the result next week when we head off again, Alan.


Sorry I can't advise on an RV Alan, but the principals are the same for solar and regs, but you might have another problem in the sparky stuff, no idea how the do stuff across the pond.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It's the same Kev. I'll know if it's cured on Tuesday as we go to Autogas 2000.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> It's the same Kev. I'll know if it's cured on Tuesday as we go to Autogas 2000.


Rather you than me, nothing good to say about them, other installers are available though.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Yes you muppet, it is still working but not properly:roll:
> 
> DISCONNECT THE PANEL AND LEAVE IT FOR A BIT, THE CONTROLLER WILL THEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT IS AND WHAT IT NEEDS TO CONTROL :crying::crying: I CAN'T COPE ANY MORE


Barry,
You have to disconnect the battery and the solar panels, until you do that the controller is still powered from the solar panels and so is not reset.. You have no other options.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

pete4x4 said:


> Barry,
> You have to disconnect the battery and the solar panels, until you do that the controller is still powered from the solar panels and so is not reset.. You have no other options.


He doesn't need to do the batteries as far as I can find out, the controller just needs to see them first to establish the volts etc without interference from the panel.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Sorry if I am being thick but it looks like its working to me. Showing amps going in and the battery level and its been disconnected a few times.

I am confused.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

So was/am I Barry, but the gurus are saying that the controller needs to see the battery first while not seeing the solar panels. So you disconnect the +ve going to the controller and also the +ve going from the controller to the battery. Then you reconnect the battery, leave it a few minutes and then reconnect the solar panel.

They may be right so it's worth a try. Why it would be right is a complete mystery to me too since with either disconnected there is no circuit and nothing can possibly see anything, but there it is.

I see no reason at all why it would cure the problem but I've given it a go. Admittedly I am a complete electrical numpty but I thought electrical things relied on circuits, Alan.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

There are two sources of power, the battery and the solar panels so effectively there are two circuits both capable of keeping the controller powered up. They both provide voltage. 
If you want to turn it off completely disconnect the two circuits to reset the unit. 
I know in theory you only need to disconnect the panels but at one point it was in fault condition which demands a reset so power it down. 
That way you turn it on in the right order and hopefully leave it in a normal state.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry but two sources of power doesn't equal one circuit.

Maybe there are two circuits (once the fuses go in) and possibly they need to see each other in a particular order but I still have no idea why.

Is it like believing in God? I remember a clergyman telling me that God existed because he said so. I wasn't very impressed with that argument either.

Is there any logical explanation as to why the controller needs to see the battery first or must I just have faith? 

Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

If I unplug the fuse between the battery and the controller the controller goes off so how is the input from the panel powering it? Isnt the input 19 or 24 volts or something anyway? I thought the whole point of the controller was to convert that into a 12v charge and presumably the unit is 12v as its powered by the 12v battery. Or am I talking rubbish (Again)?


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

It's to do with open loop gain. 
The 12v battery provides the reference and tells the panel how much current it has to dump to the battery. 
Without the battery it goes into open loop and when the battery is connected in bright sunshine it will for a split second try and pass the maximum amount of current through which could damage the controller as at that split moment in time it's unstable.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

The control circuits for the unit Barry has take their power from the battery, not the solar panels, so even if you have panels up and running you won't get any control power until the batteries go on.

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Sorry if I am being thick but it looks like its working to me. Showing amps going in and the battery level and its been disconnected a few times.
> 
> I am confused.


Your engine was working a while back but not properly, just disconnect the solar for a while then reconnect, is it hard to get ast or something Barry, think of it laterally  it needs a reboot and this is how you do it, then the firmware goes through it's functions, sees the batteries alone, you reset the type according to the instructions, then have a brew and reconnect the panel, job done.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

listerdiesel said:


> The control circuits for the unit Barry has take their power from the battery, not the solar panels, so even if you have panels up and running you won't get any control power until the batteries go on.
> 
> Peter


Thanks. So do I still need to follow this procedure or not? Disconnect the panel and battery, leave it for 2 min and then reconnect with the battery on first?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well I've just driven a few miles and didn't get the alarm, so it may be cured. Thanks for the help chaps.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Has Barfy sorted his yet ???


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Has Barfy sorted his yet ???


No. Still not done it yet. Just disconnect the positive wire from the panel while the thing is connected to the battery, leave it 2 min then reconnect? No need to power down the unit from the battery or disconnect and reconnect that as well and then reconnect the solar panel 2 minutes later?

Its not that I doubt you all but I just have a bad feeling about it.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> No. Still not done it yet. Just disconnect the positive wire from the panel while the thing is connected to the battery, leave it 2 min then reconnect? No need to power down the unit from the battery or disconnect and reconnect that as well and then reconnect the solar panel 2 minutes later?
> 
> Its not that I doubt you all but I just have a bad feeling about it.


Gerronwiitman,

Just disconnect the positive wire from the panel while the thing (controller) is connected to the battery.

but leave it a little longer before reconnecting, I have no idea how long it'll want to look at your LBs, you could leave it overnight if you wanted to.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

barryd said:


> No. Still not done it yet. Just disconnect the positive wire from the panel while the thing is connected to the battery, leave it 2 min then reconnect? No need to power down the unit from the battery or disconnect and reconnect that as well and then reconnect the solar panel 2 minutes later?
> 
> Its not that I doubt you all but I just have a bad feeling about it.


I personally would disconnect the panel(s) then the batteries. Leave for a minute or 2 then reconnect the batteries. Again leave for a minute or 2 (although the reg will almost certainly be ready within about 10 seconds) and then reconnect the panels. Most regs will let you know when they are ready because they will tell you that they can't see the solar panel 

Why do you have a bad feeling? Remember the solar regulator was delivered connected to neither a battery or a panel so you are effectively just reinstalling it as if it were new - just make sure that you have the correct battery type selected after restart.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have a bad feeling because every time any work is done on the van (usually by others to be fair) before a big trip something goes wrong. 

However, Ill go and do it now. I presume it doesnt matter that there is no sun on the van so the panel will not be producing power right now?


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

barryd said:


> I presume it doesnt matter that there is no sun on the van so the panel will not be producing power right now?


Solar panels do not need sunshine, just daylight, the brighter the better - so the panels may well be outputting some current. It is always best to include a fuse in the panels positive feed, that way removing the fuse is a quick and simple way to disconnect the panels.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Disconnecting the panels will do nothing as the control circuits run off the batteries.

Take the panel connection off first THEN take the battery connection off. Positive only.

Replace in reverse order, battery first.

Peter


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

listerdiesel said:


> Disconnecting the panels will do nothing as the control circuits run off the batteries.
> 
> Take the panel connection off first THEN take the battery connection off. Positive only.
> 
> ...


Right done all that.

Disconnected positive from the panel, shuffled about a bit, disconnected positive from battery, shuffled around a bit, stared at the Hostie over the road for a bit, reconnected the battery, got really board and played with my phone and then reconnected the panel again and it all came back to life as it was before.

Has it really done anything though as one thing I noticed was that the setting number I had it on for my battery type is number 2 which I think is lead acid sealed and it remembered that? Unless 2 is the default.

Will see how it performs now then.

Thanks for your patience and advice everyone.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Right done all that.
> 
> Disconnected positive from the panel, shuffled about a bit, disconnected positive from battery, shuffled around a bit, stared at the Hostie over the road for a bit, reconnected the battery, got really board and played with my phone and then reconnected the panel again and it all came back to life as it was before.
> 
> ...


Good man yourself, it will be doing what it's supposed to do now


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Just to confirm that mine is fixed. Thanks all.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Just to confirm that mine is fixed. Thanks all.


Its black magic, thats what it is!


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

I did not read every response and don't know what the guy did to get his fixed. But want to tell you all that some of these controllers have a built in software problem that causes the alarm to go off and give an over charge warning. I had this problem ongoing for some time and finally after some back and forth got a complete new electronics for the unit and have not had a problem since. And like others have mentioned I tried everything to fix it before the change. Supposedly the problem can be fixed with a software update, but after several tries I was unable to accomplish that. The manufacturer blamed it on the type of battery I have, which is just a typical truck starter battery.


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