# Niesmann & Bischoff Arto 69G



## Biffy

My wife and I are in the market for a second -hand Niesmann & Bischoff Arto 69G (year 2002-2004), and preferably a Merc chassis. We are not having much success with dealers. Most don't even reply and we understand N & B are in the process of dropping their association with Brownhills.

Does anyone know of a reputable importer?

Does anyone have knowledge of purchasing one direct from the continent?

Are there many pitfalls in performing a solo import?

Various articles in motorhome magazines tend to suggest there are problems with Fiat engines/chassis. Has anyone with an Arto 69 experienced difficulties in this respect (judder/water ingress).

Many Thanks

Biffy


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## b16duv

Hi Biffy,

I have a 2006 Arto 64el on a fiat chassis and it's brilliant! Don'y know if they do the arto on a merc chassis at that year though.

It is quiet, doesn't shake or rattle, and touch wood, no water ingress issues at all.

There are a few for sale at dealers around the country, and also on ebay from time to time. 

Check out the niesmann bischoff website and look for the section on second hand vehicles. This will allow you to search for the vehicle spec you want and see pictures of the actual vehicle (bit like autotrader). Oh, I saw some on the caraven trader website recently - access via autotrader website.

Haven't bought one from the continent but the next one will definitely be from Germany.

David


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## b16duv

Her's one for starters

2004 NIESMANN BISCHOFF ARTO 69G FIAT
Price: £34,995 
Features: 
2004
Full Description: 


DUCATO 2.8 JTD 2004 (04) £34995 
Trade Seller: 

Becks Caravans

Contact number: (01493) 740274

David


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## Biffy

*Niesmann-Bischoff Arto 69G*

Hi David,

Thank you for your help. I will let you know if we have success.

Regards,

Biffy


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## EJB

For info the 'judder/water ingress' problems are on 2007-on Sevel vehicles. Fiat/Pug/Citroen (X250)


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## gaspode

Take a look HERE biffy.

Self import is a doddle but no money to be saved ATM due to exchange rates etc.
No problems with Fiat issues on these - no scuttle to leak :lol: and the age you're considering will be free from reversing issues.


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## stevee4

*N & B arto*

I bought and sold an Arto 69GL this summer 2003 for around 28k 14kmiles. 
The van returned 24 to the gallon running on French RN and swiss roads. We covered 2k miles in 4 weeks. Ran like a dream I felt it handled much better than our previous smaller hymer. 
Only issues was battery power was limited and even running for 2 hours a day left us short of power. So consider the batterys and the need for solar or other wise. 
The beds were great the fixtures brill. The table is too big and in the GL layout there is a pinch point when someone is cooking. The addition(std uk fixture) of the oven is brill and works well. 
Water tanks held enough but the toilet cassette was slightly small.
Im 6'2" and found the height of the van size of the beds and the size of the bathroom all suitable and spacious
I would buy another but would look to have their new layout of the lounge and kitchen in separate areas. 
Overall a good solid van to be proud of. I visited many Aires in France and felt we had either the best van or pretty near.


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## Bernies

Hi Biffy we were looking at Niesmann Bischoff's I beleive the only UK importer noe is Travelword RV in Telford www.travekworldrv. 019252 686561 hope this helps.

Bernie


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## gaspode

Look at the date on the O/P folk. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JeanLuc

Small point and no direct experience of N&B (although I like the look of the Arto range). I think all Artos were / are built on Fiat Ducato / Alko chassis. No Mercs until you get into the stratosphere of the Clou (or possibly Flair).

Also note that the recent Artos are built with a standard MAM of 3,500 kg which may limit payload.


Philip


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## b16duv

JeanLuc said:


> Small point and no direct experience of N&B (although I like the look of the Arto range). I think all Artos were / are built on Fiat Ducato / Alko chassis. No Mercs until you get into the stratosphere of the Clou (or possibly Flair).
> 
> Also note that the recent Artos are built with a standard MAM of 3,500 kg which may limit payload.
> 
> Philip


Jean-Luc

The Artos are all now on Fiat/Alko as you say, but the smaller ones are available at 4000kg gvw as an option.

Flairs are now all Iveco Daily base, with the dash/seats moved forward and up to give a totally flat floor.

Clou are available on Mercedes Atego, MAN TGL, or Volvo coach chassis, all to custom order.

Mine is an Arto 64 el on a 4000kg chassis with 2.8jtd engine (remapped by Boosters to 'sufficient' bhp!) Payload is only 950kg though so care should be taken when loading.

Touch wood, neither the fiat or Niesmann parts have been a problem.

David


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## Suenliam

If he hasn't found one yet I expect he has given up :roll: 

Sue


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## nicholsong

It took me 3-4 years, as a newbie to MHs, to refine my Spec down to a German A Class, garage, L lounge layout, price I wanted to pay and therefore approximate year/mileage.

By this time the Spec was so narrow that it took approximately 1 year, looking at the handful of available 'vans, before I found the 'Right' one- N+M Arto 69 GL 2003 which is of course on a Fiat Ducato 2.8Jtd as has been said above.

I feel the perseverence was worthwhile as the process has, I believe, given me the confidence that i have found the right one.

I would encourage any Newbie to take their time-unless they are very impatient.

If i hadn;t done that i may have gone the cheap route of a 12 year old tired Hymer and therefore not been on this Forum at all!

Geoff


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## teemyob

*USRV*



Bernies said:


> Hi Biffy we were looking at Niesmann Bischoff's I beleive the only UK importer noe is Travelword RV in Telford www.travekworldrv. 019252 686561 hope this helps.
> 
> Bernie


And I would not go any where near the place ever again.

Travelworld have to be the worst dealers I have ever come accross in nealry 30 years of buying vehicles.

I don't think the 69G was made on a MB Chassis, though I could be wrong


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## stevee4

*N B*



nicholsong said:


> It took me 3-4 years, as a newbie to MHs, to refine my Spec down to a German A Class, garage, L lounge layout, price I wanted to pay and therefore approximate year/mileage.
> 
> By this time the Spec was so narrow that it took approximately 1 year, looking at the handful of available 'vans, before I found the 'Right' one- N+M Arto 69 GL 2003 which is of course on a Fiat Ducato 2.8Jtd as has been said above.
> 
> I feel the perseverence was worthwhile as the process has, I believe, given me the confidence that i have found the right one.
> 
> I would encourage any Newbie to take their time-unless they are very impatient.
> 
> If i hadn;t done that i may have gone the cheap route of a 12 year old tired Hymer and therefore not been on this Forum at all!
> 
> Geoff


Nice to hear you are happy in "Nessy" its a real shame I had to sell her I hope you enjoy


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## jandk

Hi 
Please excuse us hijacking this thread, but we would like to say a few words in defence of Travelworld,
We recently bought one of the last remaining Arto's left in the UK, left between the Brownhills end of franchise, and the start of the Travelworld franchise, 
This vehicle was bought from a dealer in Wales who had a stock of N+B,
this particular dealer has with regard to "hand over" lack of P.D.I. etc, been absolutely atrocious, 
We had prior to purchasing the Arto spoken to Travelworld, and they had been most helpful, after the purchase we spoke with them at the N.E.C. show, and Annabel (travelworld) has liased with N+B in Germany, to correct and verify our warranty details, also arranging future servicing,
and all aspects of P.D.I. etc.
This is not done because they liked our faces! but I am sure to build a loyal client base
either way 
Absolutely superb service


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## b16duv

jandk said:


> Hi
> Please excuse us hijacking this thread, but we would like to say a few words in defence of Travelworld,
> We recently bought one of the last remaining Arto's left in the UK, left between the Brownhills end of franchise, and the start of the Travelworld franchise,
> This vehicle was bought from a dealer in Wales who had a stock of N+B,
> this particular dealer has with regard to "hand over" lack of P.D.I. etc, been absolutely atrocious,
> We had prior to purchasing the Arto spoken to Travelworld, and they had been most helpful, after the purchase we spoke with them at the N.E.C. show, and Annabel (travelworld) has liased with N+B in Germany, to correct and verify our warranty details, also arranging future servicing,
> and all aspects of P.D.I. etc.
> This is not done because they liked our faces! but I am sure to build a loyal client base
> either way
> Absolutely superb service


Good to hear that the sole UK dealer is trying hard!

Hope you enjoy your new van.

David


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## time-traveller

nicholsong said:


> It took me 3-4 years, as a newbie to MHs, to refine my Spec ...... snip ..... I would encourage any Newbie to take their time-unless they are very impatient.
> 
> If i hadn;t done that *i may have gone the cheap route of a 12 year old tired Hymer and therefore not been on this Forum at all!*
> Geoff


Really? But why? I am sure that there are many owners of '12 _year old tired Hymers' _on this forum. And by your own definition, they are the very ones likely to benefit from the concentrated knowledge and informed advice available here .... !


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## nicholsong

When I was referring to tired 12 year old Hymers I was not referring to much loved and nurtured ones.

I was referring to buying in the second (third/fourth-hand) market, where one reads an advert, turns up to find that the 'owner' has probably not been a MH user, but just bought it off E-bay and valleted it ready for a hopefully quick turn. 

He is hoping for a buyer who had not researched the market. I have been there but thankfully walked away.

That buyer, with a little more time and patience, could get a much better 'van at a better price.

Caveat Emptor

Good look to all still seeking-with care and patience you will find the right one

Geoff


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## Lynx

HI Biffy, not sure if your interested, but we are selling our Neismann auto 69-2006 fiat chassis, 4 birth fixed double bed. It has full Omnistor safari awning and double bike rack, both only one year old. 
Oyster satellite dish.
Reversing camera.
Alpine music system.
Full removable carpets.
Excellent condition inside and out
Selling due to relocating.
Offers around £39.500 ono
Any further information or opportunities for viewing please get in touch.
07974568996 or [email protected]


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## RVman69

Hi Biffy

You seem to have very strong opinions on Travelworld but you don't seem to have a motorhome that they sell. Have you actually had any experience buying from them?


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