# Leisure Battery discharges



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, I have recently had a new 110 Ah leisure battery installed and it appears to work fine, however since arriving home a week to 10 days ago it has discharged itself and is only registering 11.4 volts, I have checked everything that i can see and they are all turned off also the control panel is set to isolate all of the 12 volt supplies within the habitation area ?

The alarm is always on but that takes its supply from the cab battery ? albeit this battery seems to be OK and holds its charge at 12.5 volts even though the alarm has been on for a week or more

I believe the vehicle is fitted with a split charging system of relays its the normal Swift Bessacarr system

any advice would be welcome

Brian


----------



## 99115 (May 8, 2006)

could it be that somehow the split charge is faulty and the leisure battery has ended up charging the starter battery?

If that is all that is connected to the leisure battery that must be what is draining it?


Regards
Stu


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Brian,

A multimeter jobbie ideally, to check for discharge. However, don't delay trying to get a good charge back into your new battery.

It could be some appliance left on (we've all done it) or a fault.

Dave


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Thanks for al of your suggestions and help

As soon as i found the problem i pluged the mains hookup in, so its fully charged, and i have left this connected so the charger is on all of the time.

I did think that I may have left something on but the system is automatic as soon as the engine is started it shuts off the 12 volt fittings/fixures within the habitation area, and you have to make a direct point of going to the control panel when you have stopped and turned the engine off to re-establish the supply, and I am 99.9% sure that neither of us did that and when i checked the readout and found that it was at 11.4 volts the supply was still showning it was isolated ?

I have tried to use my multimeter which should be able to show ampage but i think the draw is to low to obtain a reading, if there is a fault with the split-charging relays ? would this actually discharge the leisure battery to a lower voltage than the starter battery ?? and is this a fault as it seems funny that the starter battery is still showning its nearly fully charged even though the alarm has been on, ?

Brian


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Brian,

How did you use the multimeter?

You should switch the charger off, check the leisure battery voltage with the multimeter, then remove its earth/negative terminal and insert the multimeter between the negative post and the (now flying) negative lead, with it set to read current on its largest scale (10A or so).

If the current draw is zero or trivially small, then I can only assume an intermittent fault. Something sucked the energy out of your new battery .....

Dave


----------



## 99115 (May 8, 2006)

Enodreven said:


> if there is a fault with the split-charging relays ? would this actually discharge the leisure battery to a lower voltage than the starter battery ??


good point, they would end up the same voltage wouldn't they.

hmmm

Regards
Stu


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Thanks Dave I was using across the +/_ terminals I will try it later this morning thanks ?

I thought i had read somewhere that there is a system that ensures the starter battery is always protected from being overly discharged ? was i dreaming ?? or could this be something to do with it ?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

" there is a system that ensures the starter battery is always protected from being overly discharged?"

Brian,

Well the relay of the split charge relay in part does this, in that the leisure batteries (and any demands on them) are not connected to the starter battery and alternator until the alternator is putting juice into the system. And as soon as the alternator stops this, they are disconnected again.

The other thing you may be thinking of is a VanBitz Battery Master, or CAKTanks do a similar cheaper one, that keeps the starter battery topped up from the leisure battery with a sort of one-way low current electronic "valve".

Some mains chargers also have a separate output for the vehicle battery. Mine is capped at 4A.

Dave


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

As a rule of thumb a good battery will only self discharge 5% per month. So either you have a faulty battery or some other discharge path. So charge up your battery then disconnect one of the terminals and measure the voltage every couple of days to see what happens. With a hydrometer measure the SG as well.

With the symptoms as reported I don't see this as a split charge relay problem as the two batteries would be at the same voltage.

The control panel may be adding to the problem some of them permanently display an LED. This is only a tiny drain though, 5 mA perhaps, which comes to 1.2Ahr over your 10 day period. I once had a TV in a van with a 70mA drain on standby the wiring of which was directly off the battery terminals and threfore missed the controller's isolation switch. This would discahrge my battery in about a month.


Regrards Frank


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> " there is a system that ensures the starter battery is always protected from being overly discharged?"
> 
> Brian,
> 
> ...


Hi, Dave

Would one of the items (VanBitz or CAKTanks) if fitted be able to reduce the voltage of the leisure battery to a lower level than the starter battery

Thanks Brian


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

No.


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Thanks that excludes them ? the reason I asked was that i was not sure if a Vabbitz unit had been fitted or not ? and sorry Sallytraffic i think the posts must have crossed ?

I have just tried the Multimeter as you suggested Dave and it still gives zero readings ? assuming the meter is OK it looks like it could be a battery problem, i have dissconnected it and will check it again tomorrow, ?

Thanks for all of your help any other suggestions would be welcome, 

We have used the battery only off-site 2 or 3 times since it was replaced in May 06 and every time it has been OK in the morning ie. 12.5 volts at say 9:00 pm and at 9:00 am the following day after we have used 2 or 3 lights to read with for a few hours and then used the the water for 2 showers and some washin-up it has still been 12.1 or 2 does that some normal ??


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Brian,

If it is not a sealed lead acid battery I'd take the vents off and look at the electrolyte levels. If you have a hydrometer as well (cheap from Halfords) I'd check the specific gravity. I wonder if a cell has gone down. The terminal voltages seem a bit low for this warm weather.

Dave


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, Dave

I took the battery reading when i disconnected it about 30 mins ago and it was 12.72 volts while it was connected it is now reading 12.83 volts is this significant ??

Brian


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brian

I have been following this thread.....just a thought ( not trying to be clever :lol: ) if you are using a multimeter to test the current flowing as suggested by DAB you may need to move the red test lead to the "Amps" socket on the multimeter...if you do not move it you may just get a zero reading. In the picture below it is the upper red socket.










Important REMEMBER to put it back to the other socket before testing voltage or it will short out.

mike


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

spykal said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> I have been following this thread.....just a thought ( not trying to be clever :lol: ) if you are using a multimeter to test the current flowing as suggested by DAB you may need to move the red test lead to the "Amps" socket on the multimeter...if you do not move it you may just get a zero reading. In the picture below it is the upper red socket.
> 
> ...


Hi, Mike

Thanks for your input my multimeter is similar to the photo and it has 2 amp/current sockets one for 2 amp and the other 10 amp and then the 1 for voltage/Ohms and another for the COM (4 in total) and yes i have been using the correct ones albeit I did have the same thoughts a you and i have tried them all just in case ? and i even read the little hand book that came with the meter ?? so thanks

what about the voltage increase, does this show that there must be some drain??

while on the subject of the multimeter, I orginally tried it across the +/- terminals as I said, but trying daves way makes more sence but i am still reading zero, however i did try to put the lights on just to increase the current flow to double check the meter and the lights wont work unless i reconnect the main cable back onto the battery ?? any suggestions how i could double check the multimeter ? just in case ?

Brian


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Enodreven said:


> snipped:- however i did try to put the lights on just to increase the current flow to double check the meter and the lights wont work unless i reconnect the main cable back onto the battery ?? any suggestions how i could double check the multimeter ? just in case ?
> Brian


If the meter is capable of checking to 10 amps then with this setting the lighting circuit should work. With the Multimeter "in circuit" and supplying the van, the lights should be powered and the meter indicate the amount of current flowing.

If the multimeter is in circuit and the lights do not get any power either there is something wrong with the meter or the way you have it connected.

Mike

P.S or you may have blown a fuse somewhere in the process of testing with a wrongly set meter


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

My money's on Mike's PS.

And you shouldn't have to check the fuse with another multimeter, as it should be visibly broken 

Not a lot wrong with voltages of ~12.7 or higher, by the way. It was the 12.1/12.2 with relatively little use that seemed rather low.

Dave


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, The battery is upto 12.83 volts since i dissconnected it, so i think i can assume that its OK.

I went and purchased a new multimeter, and guess what you are RIGHT the bloody thng wasn't working, albeit it works OK on volts and Ohms ??

When i connect the new multimeter its showning a flow of 0.31 amps any ideas what this could be ??

Thanks for all of your help ?

Brian


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, I've found the problem its the Fridge Freezer, it has 5 settings AC - Off - GAS - Off - DC, and it appears that if i don't put it to one of the Off's then there is a 0.31 amp draw from the leisure battery, God knows why because its not for the fridge light albeit that does bypass the main habitation off switch, as when i open the door the ampage goes up to 0.62 amps so the light does go off when the door is shut ? but why there is a constant drain when the fridge is in any of the NON OFF positions I really don't know ? has anyone any idea ?

Brian

Hi, I have just done a terrible thing, I have actually read the Fridge/Freezer Manual, and you will never guess but it mentions that theres is a heating cable which is used to evaporate any water droplets that are formed due to the humidity and high temperatures, and that you should switch this off if there is no charging source available


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well it is fair enough that the fridge bypasses the stupid rule/guideline about all habitation systems must be off when driving (and deliberately not followed by Murvi I'm pleased to say). But what the 0.3 A standing current is actually used for in the (only?) manually switched fridge I don't know.

You've just blown the fuse on your first multimeter. The fuse is not needed measuring voltage or resistance, but is required for current. Some have two fuses for the different ranges, 2amps and under and 10 amps, say.

A continuous 0.3Amps discharge with nothing being put back would risk permanently damaging a brand new and fully charged (rare in itself) 110Ah battery in under 2 weeks.

Dave


----------



## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Sorry Dave, I was editing my previous post and they seem to have crossed, you will see the reason ?

and Thanks again for all of the help i really do appreciate it

yours fraternally

Brian


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brian

Glad to see you "got there in the end" but I think I let you down  ...I knew about those freezer heaters :lol:....I had read about another owner who had taken 3 years to sort out why his battery was always flat! Cannot remember whether it was on here or MMM , if it was MMM it was ages ago, I don't buy it now, I am on here all the time :lol: 

Maybe armed with all the model number details of your fridge you should make a new thread warning all the other users about the problem......


mike


----------

