# New or Used?



## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, I don't know my way around yet.

I'm looking to buy a MH next year and am researching my options. I've already spent some time in my local dealers and have got to a stage where I need some independent advice.

I like the build quality and reputation of Autoquest etc, but they are a bit out of my price range new. I can afford a new Elddis and have read good things about the new Solid built construction which seems to provide a much more water proof and stronger build. But are they up to the standard of the Autoquest? Or would I be better off buying a used Autoquest?

I know the Autoquests have a higher resale value but the Solid Built Elddis are still pretty new and I don't know how they will fair when they come to be sold in 5 or 10 years time.

What do you think?


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Most people will say buy used, I certainly would.

Paul.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Don't make the classic mistake of (a) fixating one one particular make / model . . . (B) be VERY wary of dealers salesman advice without doing a whole lot of research yourself - in a lot of cases salesmen know very little about the motor homes they try to sell, after all it could be motor homes, cornflakes or mobile phones - to (most of them) they're all just 'products' to shift & will either tell you what you want to hear or blind you with B*llsh*t.

(Of course my apologies to all decent salesmen out there :wink:


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi and welcome to MHF.

I personally would always buy used.There are an awfull lot of low mileage motorhomes out there.Also I would have an open mind and look at more makes rather than just the 2 you have mentioned.
And make a list of your prefered layout,eg fixed bed,large garage or rear kounge etc etc
Good luck with your search,thats half the fun.
Jo


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Used for me. A 'better' quality used vs a cheaper new...

...no brainer  

too many hardly used low milage motorhomes with all the VAT and depreciation ripped out of them to do otherwise.


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Buy used, firstly because you save a fortune and quite possibly get a better van as any teething problems are all sorted, but secondly if you get it wrong with the layout you can change without it breaking the bank.

Check the weight/payload and your license entitlement.

Martin


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## urbanracer (Aug 22, 2007)

I think you have the names wrong Elddis make a model range called
Autoquest.

Do you mean Autotrail?


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

A used quality brand is the way to go.

Before you make your mind up about what you want - the 2 most important things to check out are:

Layout - try them all. Get it wrong and you'll regret it.

User Payload - and if you're not too sure what that means then do some research - it's very important and don't waste your time asking an average High Street dealer - it's quite likely he won't know what you're talking about or he'll just give you some meaningless number.


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## Poulbot (Nov 8, 2013)

Buy used (nearly new), imo.
I was at the NEC show a few years back and was looking at a van when I heard a couple talking about the layout of the van we were in. The outcome of the conversation was that hubby had bought a very expensive new motorhome, but the wife decided within six months that she didn't like the bed layout! It seems he had been persuaded to sell that and buy another new one!!! :roll: 
When I was looking to buy a motorhome a year or so ago, Eldiss vans had a reputation for suffering leaks at an early stage of their life. This may or may not be correct, but the info came from several sources, which put me off that brand a little.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

*New or used?*

Thanks for all your replies - its pretty clear cut and in truth I'm not surprised at the result.

I'm looking for a 4 berth with a bed over the cab and preferably with an end lounge and no fixed bed.

I intend to get a great deal of use from it so it needs to be able to standup to that.

I have two local dealers but only one of them seems to have any customer focus or speak with any sense of authority on the subject. The better one is a Marquis dealer, the other one is I believe Webb.

Two more questions if you don't mind:

1.Can you tell me what the list of the main MH Makes are in order of quality?
2. Are automatic gearboxes in MH reliable - do they overheat on hills etc are there any issues that should make me steer clear of them?

Thanks

Matt


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## Poulbot (Nov 8, 2013)

"I'm looking for a 4 berth with a bed over the cab and preferably with an end lounge and no fixed bed. 
I intend to get a great deal of use from it......."

I assume you were talking about the Motorhome generally!!!? Or perhaps one of the more robust models would be better to suit your particular needs!  

With the internet and most dealers now advertising their motorhomes on-line with lots of photos, I wouldn't just stick to local dealers. For such a large investment, be prepared to travel a little to find the right MH for you.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

For a first van, without doubt buy used. It takes quite a lot of practical experience of actually travelling and living in a van before you have much chance of getting the right motor, the right make, the right layout and be willing to lose X£'s as you leave your chosen dealer.

Secondly I would be inclined NOT to buy from the first dealer you find a van that looks Ok! Visit a motorhome show where there are a variety of marques, a selection of dealers and the best chance of learning what to look out for.
A while back I thought I had found a suitable van, good layout, price etc, when another person having a look inside pointed out that this van could be over its payload if you had a big dinner. I later checked and he was close to being right.
Good luck!

Alan


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

It is down to the fact that the moment you drive your sparkling new motor home out of the dealers courtyard, you lose the entire Vat and there will be a reduction of what you paid for your van even if it has very few miles on the clock if you decide it is not for you..

So as we do not know how rich or daft you are, it is a decision only you can make. It is as simple as that!..

ray.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

My advice would seem to concur with the majority, buy used.
Take your time, buy the smallest van with the biggest engine that fits your requirements.
It took us three vans to get our current one which we have now owned for 10 years and have yet to find a suitable replacement.

We started too small then went to too big and underpowered now just about right IMHO.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks. I see a lot of MH use 130 BHP motors these days. Is that considered sufficient for an average size MH?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

It all depends on how much weight the engine has to pull. My pal has an Autotrail Navajo with a 130 engine and its gutless!!!


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## Jmdarr (Oct 9, 2013)

I would definitely buy second hand there are a lot of three year old low mileage Motorhomes about.
We bought a three year old ADRIA matrix 8000 miles on the clock 
4000kl gross weight 3 lt engine manual .
Goes like the wind.we have had it a year and had no problems.
marquis didn't have the courtesy to ask if we wanted anything so we looked at a couple then left.
We are of the opinion if you can't be bothered we will take our custom somewhere else.
A salesman trait I'm afraid.
Would make a list of what you want not Many automatics about.
Took us three years to find the one we wanted looked at many showrooms until one day we sat in ruby and she stole our heart and my wallet.
Don't buy the first one you see,take your time 

John and angela


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## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*Organplayer*

Should you purchase your new travel wagon from a dealer my advice for what its worth would be buy from a fairly nearby dealership if possible. This and other sites have had not very encouraging details where folk have bought from a dealer miles away from home, and this throws up all sorts of problems when the purchaser has to return to the dealer with problems to be fixed. Also some warranty checks and work have to be carried out by the supplying dealer to just to keep within the warranty "rules", and that's another story.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks all, great advice. I'll be coming back for more.


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## Deanglen (May 13, 2014)

Sorry - I don't understand why the VAT element of the purchase price is an amount to be deducted from the value of any nearly-new motorhome - it's just part of the overall cost. If I buy a respected-make new model for £50k it is not going to drop £10k just by driving it out of the dealer. The reduction in price of a used model reflects how popular and desirable the model is. Many good motorhomes will depreciate slowly and that is why we bought a new one - a nearly-new van of the make and model that we wanted wasn't significantly cheaper than a new one. We wanted a van that we would keep for about 8 years so we did a lot of research and decided to buy new because there were few secondhand examples of the van that we wanted and also because we wanted to know exactly what we were getting for our money. We were fortunate that we had the resources to buy it new otherwise we would have had a long wait and bought secondhand for only a few thousand less.
If you do your research well you can miss out the 'oh, your first van is never right and you'll soon change it for the layout that suits you' stage and that's got to save money.
There is no correct answer to 'used or new' - it just depends on your circumstances and what you want from the whole motorhome package.


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## Yaxley (Jul 25, 2008)

Welcome Deadmeat.
Weight was mentioned but you didn't pick up on it.
You don't say how many adults/children are going to be using the van.
What about TV and Satellite dish.
Solar panel?
Extra batteries?
Awning?
Cycle rack?
All these eat into your payload.
Are you confined to 3500kg gvw?
As the others said take your time.
Ian


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Deanglen said:


> If I buy a respected-make new model for £50k it is not going to drop £10k just by driving it out of the dealer. .


It is!

Just try selling it 'that evening'. No sane person is going to 'buy your VAT' off you. A dealer contact of mine bought a brand new (200 miles) £60K MH off a guy whose missus 'didnt like the layout'. He gave him £45K against another new one. It beggars belief :lol:

They then sold the 'nearly new' one on for £51K (which still represented a bargain) - nice mornings work.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Yaxley said:


> Welcome Deadmeat.
> Weight was mentioned but you didn't pick up on it.
> You don't say how many adults/children are going to be using the van.
> What about TV and Satellite dish.
> ...


Yes, I am restricted to 3500kg. It will mostly be two adults only. I won't want a cycle rack but I will want to tow a trailer with my motorcycle on it.

TV and satellite is not important as we seldom watch it when we are away (rather watch the sunsets and the bats)

Haven't seen one in the flesh yet but the Autotrail Tracker 634 looks pretty much ideal. Anyone on here got one?


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

1302 said:


> Deanglen said:
> 
> 
> > If I buy a respected-make new model for £50k it is not going to drop £10k just by driving it out of the dealer. .
> ...


Isn't that what you do when you buy a demonstrator from the dealer?


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

So when I come to buy my used MH and I get it damp tested, is there a damp reading beyond which I should walk away? If so what is it?

In my experience a little damp can be detected in most caravans even if it is only condensation. But I don't want an unscrupulous salesman to tell me that "yeah thats quite normal for a van of this type, they are all like it"

Does anyone have a damp report for a good van that I could see?


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> It all depends on how much weight the engine has to pull. My pal has an Autotrail Navajo with a 130 engine and its gutless!!!


I'm looking at no more than 3500kg but with a bike trailer, so would the 130 still be gutless or would the 150 be more suitable? Or does it really need 180?


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Deadmeat said:


> Isn't that what you do when you buy a demonstrator from the dealer?


shouldnt be. Any demonstrator should be at most list price less 20 percent VAT andthen some moremless for any use its had.

Ex Demo cars like our Up! are price at £6500 with a few miles on the clock - its an £8000 car brand new. They get the VAT back anyway so arent losing out.


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## Jimbothompson (Dec 25, 2013)

If you can afford it buy new.
If you don't buy new we cannot buy second~hand vans!
Jim


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

You will save thousands just by buying a van that's a year or two old and save even more by buying privately but the best advice I can give is always have an independent habitation check carried out ( and especially if buying from a dealer) before parting with your money,I'm sure any genuine seller wouldn't object to having this done and if it's all ok puts them in a stronger position on price.....buying a Motorhome is an absolute minefield and can be the quickest way to throw money down the drain by buying a wrong 'un',but buy the right one and you'll never regret it


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## mikebeaches (Oct 18, 2008)

Whilst the majority on here recommend buying used, I prefer new or 'almost' new.

We bought our current van 4 years ago with 300 miles on the clock. The dealer had registered it (to achieve a sales bonus or something I suspect), only a day before we purchased it, so we are technically the second owner. But nobody else had used it or slept in it and we were able to save a very significant sum against the list price.

We enjoyed having what was effectively a new vehicle, with a full manufacturer's warranty. Being bang up to date, it drove like a dream. Especially compared to our previous van, which was our first and which was purchased second-hand. It was more fuel efficient too. Oh, and no need for damp checks at the outset.

Horses for courses I guess...

Oh and if you're sticking to 3,500kg, then I'd have thought 130hp engine would be OK, even towing a small trailer. If you can afford a more powerful engine, then great. But as you observed, the majority of 3.5K kg vans come with 130hp engines (or 120hp), so much bigger choice to select from. 

Hope whatever you decide on, it all works out.

Mike


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Looking at the autotrail website and using the weight calculator shows that for 3500kg Apache 634 with just a towbar fitted reduces the available payload left to 47kg. The calculator allows 90kg of personal payload for each passenger, but is 47kg enough?


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

You seem to have loads of questions, and there are loads of answers on here too.

Go and sit in some of them, give them positives and negatives, do what everyone else does....try and test

Don't be sitting on MH facts and expecting all the answers.....they don't exist, only you and Whoever can and will decide what you want.

It can take only your opinion to get it right...not mine, go and try, be a pest to the sales team, try their patience, then make your mind up...

And we all wish you the very best of luck.....that's important 

Norrie


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

We founf the big shows, like NEC Birmingham to be a great help. We had no intention of buying a new one but you cen experience all the layouts and after all todays 'new' is tomorrows 'second hand'.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

norrie said:


> You seem to have loads of questions, and there are loads of answers on here too.
> 
> Go and sit in some of them, give them positives and negatives, do what everyone else does....try and test
> 
> ...


Thanks. Ive been doing that. But all the advice come back to "Make sure you get enough payload"

But what is enough?

I've identified what I think is the ideal MH for us, but I'm worried that the available payload is not enough. Indeed, if I add a tow bar and the media pack it goes overweight!! And that doesn't take account of the fact that I am a very erm muscular weight...

On the other hand, the weight calculator provides for 90kg of personal clothing etc allowance. This seems a lot considering when I went backpacking in New Zealand last year i only took 15kg with me for a month.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

1302 said:


> We founf the big shows, like NEC Birmingham to be a great help. We had no intention of buying a new one but you cen experience all the layouts and after all todays 'new' is tomorrows 'second hand'.


Thanks - I'll be going to the show on Friday for a good browse around...


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

You do seem to have a fixation on these Autotrails. There are plenty of other makes on the market, however i will say that the european makes seem to be better quality. 
Surprised at your comment about the choice of dealers in Hants.

I suggest as i always do, If you have never been motor homing before, that you hire one for a week or just a weekend, then make up a list of likes and dislikes one each and then compare. this should give you an idea of what you need and how much rubbish you do not need to carry.

cabby


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## Yaxley (Jul 25, 2008)

Deadmeat.
Members find it difficult to advise you on what you need to carry in a van.
Everyone has different priorities. My wife brings everything bar the kitchen sink. (She recently saw a portable washing machine but when she saw my reaction she abandoned the idea)
I have a checklist A4 sheet with 4 columns before we head to Europe.
In the rear storage there is everything from a toolbox to recliners to hoses to cables to cleaning materials, barbecue, small compressor to pump the tyres, table, chairs, ramps etc etc. Does this form part of your Autotrail 90kg personal allowance???
What about the cups, saucers, plates, pots, knives forks etc etc. 
There is one golden rule.......dont believe anything a manufacturer or dealer tells you about weight!!!! 
Try and make contact with another MHF member in your area and go and have a chat. You will learn a lot from your visit to the NEC by talking to other motorhomers.
Best of luck with your search.
Ian


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks everyone, I had a good look round at the NEC today and interrogated the salesmen. I thought I'd give you guys a rest! I must say I was surprised by the lack of product knowledge of some of them.
Anyway, my visit confirmed my view that the Autotrail Apache 634U is the right van for me, but the lack of available payload on the 3500kg is a problem. However, a new European law (thank god for the EU) means that I can now apply for my full 7500kg licence back if I can prove that I have not had any issues in the last 3 months. So my plan is to do that and once I get my licence back buy the 3650kg Version of the Apache.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Now that has an interesting comment about licences. Can you keep us updated on your progress please.
There was comment some time ago that regarding the EU laws and our driving licences did not apply in the UK.

cabby

If the details are private you can pm for complete confidence.


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## Deadmeat (Oct 2, 2014)

cabby said:


> Now that has an interesting comment about licences. Can you keep us updated on your progress please.
> There was comment some time ago that regarding the EU laws and our driving licences did not apply in the UK.
> 
> cabby
> ...


Quite happy to discuss in public if it helps others.

I have type 2 Diabetes for which I take insulin. I had been diabetic for some years before I eventually got put on insulin about 6 years ago. At that point I had my LGV licence taken away and replaced with a short term (3 year) licence (covering only up to 3500kg) which I have to renew after a Doctors assessment each 3 year period.

This is due to the fact that if you are on insulin you can suffer "Hypos" where your blood sugar goes too low and you risk becoming unconscious if it is not treated quickly. Although I have had Hypos, I have never gone unconscious as I can recognise the problem early and treat myself by eating sweets or similar to bring my blood back up.

Recently the EU made a ruling that if it can be demonstrated that I am not at risk of Hypos whilst driving I can reapply to get my licence back. 
I need to provide 3 months of continuous blood sugar readings at the rate of 2 per day for inspection by a doctor. This can be done using my blood sugar monitor which records each reading.

DVLA alerted me to the fact that I may be able to recover my old entitlement under the new law and have sent me the forms which I need to complete.

I will not be asking for my full LGV licence back ( I had to leave the fire service when I was put onto insulin) as I no longer need to drive LGVs, but I will be asking for the normal C1 entitlement that allows me to drive up to 7500kg including a lovely Autotrail Apache 634U at 3650kg!

This is the standard car licence that most people have if they passed their test prior to 1997 although I will still have to go through the medical assessment and reapply for a new licence every 3 years.

Hope this helps


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## Tan-all-over (Jun 26, 2010)

Buy used, we have a few friends who insist on new but have had a few problems and not just teething ones either. Why loose all that money as soon as your tyres touch the main road ?


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