# How can you buy British? Bessacarr E789



## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

I would love to buy British, I am convinced we have the work force that is more than capable of producing a high quality product.
But do we have the management ?

Due to using a motorhome in connection with my wifes business, we have quite specific requirements with regard to garage space, payload and towing capacity, the living area as to come second. Further more I don't wont to spend a large sum of money and find that I have to go back and forth to dealers to have remediable work carried out, that should have been sorted before it left the factory.

So we always choose secondhand Hymer's which are well built and if there as been any problems sorted by the previous owners, while the current one meets our tech specification, the lounge area could be better.
Given most van's are a compromise it doesn't do any harm to look for that perfect one.

In this months "Best selling motorcaravan magazine for 42 years" MMM, the Bessecarr E789 is 'On Test' on flicking through the pages it struck me from the pic's that this may be worth a closer inspection. 

However within the first few paragraphs, the unfortunately's started with the 'central locking erratic', then failed completely' followed by the 'Sat Nav was missing, so I could'nt try reversing camera' .

Then 'I had to use a tray to eat off, the table was missing'

with a final unfortunately 'the draining board missing'

Because I wonted to believe that I may just have found a contender for our next motorhome, while reading the report, I was thinking " a dealer had supplied the vehicle and couldn't be bothered to prep it properly for the mag". How bad is that !
Then I reached the end of the article.

The vehicle for test was supplied by Swift.

How can I buy a product at nearly £60,000 and have any confidence in it, when the manufactures cant be bothered to get even one right for the best selling British MH mag, to in effect give an 8 page advert.

We British have the capacity and work force to make a first class product, IMHO we don't have the management, if I was the boss of Swift, who ever was responsible for providing this van would find one more unfortunately,
their P45.

Happy Christmas.


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## b6x (Feb 26, 2007)

It does seem very strange to provide a van to MMM to review that was substandard. That review certainly wouldn't make me want to spend circa 60k of my cash.

Although, that said, I don't believe everything I read in the magazines. 
One of the mags reviewed the Twin when it first came out and listed all sorts of issues with it, including not being able to shut the back doors with the bed raised. 
I actually had been in, and played with, the exact van Adria had lent them for review, and there was no such problems at all. 

I'm sure Peter (Swift Chairman) will be along in a while to explain the situation.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

A very relevant post. Why oh why is it left to the end used to complete the quality control and dealer's PDI. And I'm not so sure if it is just a management problem. If the work force have no sense of pride in their job then no amount of management will cure a flawed product.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi I am pretty sure it must be a one off and that Peter (the owner/boss) will have something to say on this matter if he reads it.Although I have never bought or intend buying one of his products (unless he fancys giving me one :lol: ) I think he is trying very hard to get things sorted from his end,and by reading posts relevant to his products he's trying to sort the people on this site especially.I do not want to sing his praises but you have to think he could just as well kept his head down and out of the firing line so to speak.It's your cash so shop around until you find what you want and enjoy :lol: 
merry christmas 
terry


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

One other thing you have to consider with these mags is that they seem to make a habit of taking out pre production/prototype vans, normally so they can have a 'scoop' and be the first mag to 'test a Slobox Z5963451....B'.

I'm not sure who's to blame, the mags for pushing to get the vans early or the manufacturers for letting them have unfinished product so they keep on the 'good side' of the mags. Of course they then get rewarded by snide comments about things that normally get sorted by final production. The mags might argue that it was their comments that got the problem sorted before production.

With their enormous lead times (and weird issue dating method) I wouldn't be surprised if tests for the Jan. issue of MMM were carried out in August/September, which is well before the Bessies launch at the NEC in October. Or it might even be that the exhibition van, minus bits knicked by punters, went straight on test from the NEC, with no prep time for the manufacturer.

It'll be interesting to see what is written about the Bessie E510 Compact which I had a look over at Cottingham one Friday a few weeks back. I understand that it was due to go out on test with a mag (possibly Which Motorcaravan who have a test scheduled for their Feb. issue) the following Monday.

It had the wire crockery holder unit fixed in the rear offside overhead locker whereas production models will have it in a nearside locker close to the kitchen. What's the betting the crockery holder gets a slating for being in the wrong place?


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Making excuses for the unexcusable doesn't help, in this case Swift or the consumer.
This is the British problem, we don't like to complain.

Will the food at a restaurant improve when the customers keep telling the waiters "that everything is OK thankyou" when really it's poo.

Surely its not beyond someone to have noticed a hole in the dash board with wires probably hanging out and think " I would bet money that there is something missing " or " hey I am sure that a big squaze thing that you sit at should be between the seats" 

We can produce a great product, when we became weekend gypsies we started with a Bailey Caravan (Didn't last long, towing was a nightmare) But the senator for less than £15000 was a great product. So no more excuses get some boss's with commonsense and lets all start buying British.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

"Or it might even be that the exhibition van, *minus bits knicked by punters,* went straight on test from the NEC, with no prep time for the manufacturer".

Good point it does happen unfortunately, we have had it happen to us, odd things go walkabout.

However this would not happen at a good dealers as it would have been PDI'd properly before handover, thats part of the service and I am sure any eagle eyed purchaser would spot the missing items anyway.

Happy Xmas


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## gm6vxb (Nov 3, 2007)

Unfortunately I do not think that the review vehicle was anything other than normal for a motorhome.
I had been looking at motorhomes for quite a while before finally purchasing one at the NEC this year.
All I can say is that the standard of presentation of most of the vehicles on display at the show was poor, and in some cases abysmal. This was in contrast to the caravans on show which were well presented, clean and tidy.
I would expect at a show, or if a vehicle is presented for demonstration purposes that it would be in near concours condition. At the show there were vehicles with bits of trim missing, mains sockets upside down, and green bits showing around the edges of trim.
If this is the presentation for a show, what chance getting a van any better. 
I would say non at all. Yet we put up with this standard of preparation. When several faults were pointed out to one manufacturer (it was on our short list to buy), the attitude was 'well we should sort it for you'. The faults should not have been there in the first place.
If you went to a car show and found the vehicle looking like it had just been driven there, would you rush to buy one, if there were bits missing would you be impressed with the build quality.
Yet we go and buy a much more expensive vehicle (M/H) and get upset when there are faults.
Be it British or any other manufacturer, I would expect a vehicle in good condition with no faults on delivery.
Maybe the Bessacar example is normal for motorhomes.
Martin, with his grumpy hat on.


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

To balance this at the NEC show I looked at the new Burstner 747, I was informed that this was in fact a mock up and on delivery there may be minor difference's. No problems so far, the salesman told me that it would have a 3000 kg towing weight, I nearly pooed my panse,I had found what could be the ideal M/H for us. 
However I waited for more information via Burstner, the towing limit then some how shrunk down to 2000kgs, still OK for us, however thankfully I waited till they were on dealers forecourts, the production models towing limit is 1000Kg no good at all for our needs. 

So its not just the Brits that can't always get it right.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

No excuse perhapss for sending a vehicle for a magazine test without all the bits or a full explanation but, I understand from our dealers, they ( the dealers) fit the sat nav and sound system just before it goes to the owner. Removable things - like draining boards and removable tables are also put into the van just before it goes to it's new owner.

The reasons for this are because there is so much theft from vehicles open for inspection on the forecourt. There have been comments passed on MHF, about dealers who lock the vans and, in order to see a selection, you have to have a youth with keys trail you round the forecourt.

We can't have it both ways. Either the vehicles are fully equipped and ready to go from the convertor or they are minus the more covetable items up until the moment of collection.

I don't have the impression that the Swift that Peter Smith is now i/c of would have let the van go to the magazine without explaining to them that not all items would be there. I can't help feeling that the magazine should have known this anyway. Your dealer would however make sure that it is complete before you collected it.

G


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*MMM test etc*

Hi

Right here goes my two bobs worth. The van I now own was also a Swift test van. The van featured in Practical Motorhome, another magazine, was the demo vehicle on stand at the NEC and also lent out to other parties.

I choose to buy this van - admittedly it was a "prototype" - feeling safe in the knowledge that it would be the "jewel in the crown" - and I have not been let down.

I recently went to Barrons with a friend to view a Bessacarr 789 and whilst certain things were not available to see - draining board, coffee table etc, they were present and stowed away in the wardrobe.

I also add that from one of the test reports, an MPG figure of 16 point something was quoted for my van. What a load of bull that was. I run at about 50% better than that and would love to know how the magazine concerned had managed such appalling figures. Since reading the reviews of this van - and it is THIS van, not one like it, I have given up with the magazines altogether.

On the other hand though, if bits were missing, then it is good that MMM reported the fact. It would have been all too easy to say "all was well" - and this suggests that their reviews are balanced and not too positive etc.

I do like John Cross' comments though about things nicked by punters. I think I have mentioned before I know a lady who sells brand new houses from the show home concept. She has even had things stolen from there - the "prospective buyers" taking a pushchair and child in the view home to assist with the haul.

To sum up, whilst a missing draining board and table is not world class stuff, it is hardly the same as breaking down and having rain water pouring in etc etc.

I would like to know though - if Swift are willing and able to tell us - do the demo vans go from the factory straight to MMM and the like or do they pass a dealer. Could a dealer have robbed the parts for use elsewhere?

Russell

EDIT - I missed the point about the central door locking - and in an ideal world that should have worked like clockwork.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> No excuse perhapss for sending a vehicle for a magazine test without all the bits or a full explanation but, I understand from our dealers, they ( the dealers) fit the sat nav and sound system just before it goes to the owner. Removable things - like draining boards and removable tables are also put into the van just before it goes to it's new owner.
> 
> The reasons for this are because there is so much theft from vehicles open for inspection on the forecourt. There have been comments passed on MHF, about dealers who lock the vans and, in order to see a selection, you have to have a youth with keys trail you round the forecourt.
> 
> ...


My point Grizzly is that some journalists will moan about things that they've already been warned about by the manufacturer and that are going to be put right in production. However even if the mag. just mentions the snags and that they are due to be resolved it creates a negative in the potential buyers mind. To my mind it's snide and lazy journalism.

Mags can't have it both ways, they either get a pre-production/prototype van warts and all for an early copy date or they wait and get one from the main production which by that time is old news.

Andy


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

My general opinion of 'Road Tests' in the magazines is rather different. I find that they often gloss over or completely ignore what are major failings in build quality / design.

We see comments such as: very good da de da de da, unlike many other motorhomes. We don't see the comment; very poor da de da de da, in any other tests though!

I have seen pictures in magazines of glaringly poor design. such as unprotected wiring and electrical fittings in under seat lockers *and* a vent grille right in the middle of the same locker marked " do not cover": so how are you supposed to store anything in there?.... no comment from the testers whatsoever!

Harvey


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Chapter and Verse*

For certain I will find out what has happened and who is at fault.As I sit here in my kitchen I do not know who is to blame.I hate caravans/motorhomes going out on test by someone with doubtful qualifications to do a proper test .My instructions are clear that a Motorhome/caravan should go out complete in everyway to ensure that what seems to have happened doesnt.Anyway I will report back when I find out the full story I cannot disagree with any of the comments made.Merry Christmas.Peter.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

*Takeaflight. You say you always buy secondhand Hymers because everything wrong if anything has then been put right by the first owners.
Whats wrong with buying a year old British Van with the warts Ironed out.
Several years ago I bought a 700 series Bessacarr about 18 months old from Chelston Motorhomes that was probably nearly 10 grand cheaper than new and I havent had an ounce of trouble with it other than a sliding toilet door that kept coming off its roller. Its coming upto seven years old and I still have the original Batteries, Tyres etc although for peace of mind I will probably start changing some of these this next year as I dont want problems whilst away, I havent found another Van yet that I would genuinely want to change for the Bessacarr, certainly nothing foreign. We have two lovely long Bed settees for lounging on of an evening in comfort. What do most of the foreign vans offer like the Bursteners etc A breakfast Bar type table with sit up and beg seats that make into a double bed if you have a large family. How could anybody relax of an evening sitting at a table like that. The other alternatives are to go to bed early or sit in the swivel round driving seats that youve probably sat in all day travelling. Nah, English for me everytime, Bessacarr or Autotrail or similar. Just let somebody else with money to burn lose the VAT and Iron out the few little niggles then buy it. :lol: :lol: *


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

TonyHunt said:


> We have two lovely long Bed settees for lounging on of an evening in comfort. What do most of the foreign vans offer like the Bursteners etc A breakfast Bar type table with sit up and beg seats that make into a double bed if you have a large family. How could anybody relax of an evening sitting at a table like that. [/b]


I'm glad someone said that.

The layout of most of the continental vans we have seen has been cramped and gloomy with uncomfortable seats. We too enjoy the long seats for lounging that come with our Bessacarr ( and other UK designed vans) and the spacious light and airy feel of the van itself. We particularly like the panoramic window above the cab that comes with the low-profile version.

G


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

> Whats wrong with buying a year old British Van with the warts Ironed out


Tony couldn't agree more, however due to business use we need a large garage a good payload and a min 1500kg towing weight, to my knowledge until now (Bessacar) I don't think there is anything British that meets our requirements. You are right about the lounge which if you read my post I have already said this as to take second place. However seeing the pics in the mag of the Bessacars lounge made me read the report.

Peter, Swiftgroup having the balls to come onto a open forum gives me the confidence to track one down and go and have a nose, with a view to purchase.
I would like to know the size of the garage can't find the spec.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

A man after me own heart Grizzly. When I go to the shows I only have to look inside the door of 95% of the vans on offer to dismiss them immediately for lack of comfort. Another personal dislike is garages (although very handy for stowing junk) because it means the bed is going to be high and an afterthought because the garage comes first. Some of the new walk round beds are excellent. The Yanks certainly have been doing the comfort and space thing right for years, just a shame they need to be so big. Maybe it will only be time before an English manufacturer trys a slideout model, theyve just about got as big as they are able with double rear axles. The English Fifth wheel company have shown it can be done under 30ft with their Celtic Rambler. What a piece of kit that is and what a Motorhome that would make but I daresay maybe cost would be prohibitive.


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

TonyHunt said:


> *.....We have two lovely long Bed settees for lounging on of an evening in comfort. What do most of the foreign vans offer like the Bursteners etc A breakfast Bar type table with sit up and beg seats that make into a double bed if you have a large family. How could anybody relax of an evening sitting at a table like that. The other alternatives are to go to bed early or sit in the swivel round driving seats that youve probably sat in all day travelling. *


Well this is fine if you only require a 2 berth. Are there any 'lounge' models >3500kg with proper belted seats in the back?

We are comfortable in our swivel/reclining pilot seats even if we also sit in them whilst travelling.

Like the man said, it is all about compromising :wink:


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

Our solano has nice panoramic window over cab area, nice walk around bed in rear at a sensible height still allowing a decent amount of storage in the lower height garage. Not quite as much worktop space as some of british vans but we think nearly every van has that little I wish item! Using the reclining swiveling cab seats we find very comfortable although the wife has to use a pouffe owing to shortness of legs not reaching the floor.I also had to make her a box to rest her feet on in cab but that is usefull for storing shoes under! but they do say good things come in little packages. We found the main difference between european vans and british vans is the build quality with european better although not as glitzy.Our previous euramobil was fantastic quality with nothing wearing out or falling off after five and half years doing average of 170 nights a year only changing as we wanted swiveling cab seats so the cab could be used and not a wasted space and the bed is a lot more convenient as we are not getting any younger.
Also we only have ONE motorh

Steveome.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

sweetie said:


> Our solano has nice panoramic window over cab area, nice walk around bed in rear at a sensible height still allowing a decent amount of storage in the lower height garage. Not quite as much worktop space as some of british vans but we think nearly every van has that little I wish item! Using the reclining swiveling cab seats we find very comfortable although the wife has to use a pouffe owing to shortness of legs not reaching the floor.I also had to make her a box to rest her feet on in cab but that is usefull for storing shoes under! but they do say good things come in little packages. We found the main difference between european vans and british vans is the build quality with european better although not as glitzy.Our previous euramobil was fantastic quality with nothing wearing out or falling off after five and half years doing average of 170 nights a year only changing as we wanted swiveling cab seats so the cab could be used and not a wasted space and the bed is a lot more convenient as we are not getting any younger.
> Also we only have ONE motorh
> 
> Steveome.


I also have a wife whose feet don't touch the floor, but she still manages to get about - quite amazing. She tells me her legs are quite long for her height as well 8O

Happy Christmas


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

Could it be that the missing items were in their dedicated storage cupboard?

Just a thought 

Joyce


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

sealady said:


> Could it be that the missing items were in their dedicated storage cupboard?
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> Joyce


You could be right Joyce, all the items mentioned (apart from the dickey central locking which might be a canbus fault) are supplied to dealers wrapped up in polythene and stored for delivery in the wardrobe or underbed along with items like cushions.

When mooching round demo vans at dealers you quite often come across them if you start opening doors etc.

Thinking of the E510 that I had a look over at Cottingham it didn't have a radio, TV or the satnav/reversing camera fitted and that was going out on a journalistic road test after the weekend.

It might also be that a zealous Swift person removed the higher value pinchable items for safe keeping like dealers do, although that wouldn't really account for the missing table.

Andy


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## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

I never take any notice of magazine reports as these are always only one persons view which may not coincide with mine. Met a couple at the NEC who were judging vans for a magazine and I suggested that they might not be looking at the things I would not consider were important. They agreed that it was only their view but it does give an idea of the type and quality of the van. Can't understand why a mag prints a report without showing a plan of the layout.

We never pre-order a van and only buy what we can see. Our requirements are only specific to us. Two single beds and a seperate bathroom at the back. Not a lot of choice there and certainly not on the continental front.

Although we have never owned a foreign van we find that they lack many of the home comforts we Brits like and the finish often looks cheap and very poor.
If you are spending 60K then I would want to buy the van I see and not pre-order and certainly would't leave any deposit greater than a fiver!!!!
But then I know I am odd and it is Xmas morning!!!!


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

takeaflight said:


> Due to using a motorhome in connection with my wifes business, we have quite specific requirements with regard to garage space, payload and towing capacity, the living area as to come second.


Hi Takeflight,

We have been working on improving our garage models recently and are are in the process of making some changes which improve the garage space generally with some additional storage shelving and the service provisions (e.g. lighting, power points, heating points, better access for dump valves, sweep outs, new flooring, etc) to try and improve the designs. We have also increased the heights of the garage by dropping the floors 2" and improved access with bigger doors to try and give more height and access for scooters, cycle, or for general storage.

We have also have worked on providing greater towing capacities where possible, e.g. the Bessie E789 has a 1600kg towing limit (with a 6000kg gross train weight) and an 835kg user payload.

The latest models will be at the February NEC,

Thanks & Merry Christmas
Andy - Swift Technical


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Can't ask for a better service than that.

A reply on Boxing Day

Thanks


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Payload*

Andy

Can I clarify.....

If the maximum train weight is 6000kg and the maximum of 1600kg is being towed, then the weight of the loaded motorhome can be only 4400kg? Given a mass in running order of 4165kg, then the actual additional load that can be carried in the van is 235 kg?

Russell


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## fatbast (Dec 5, 2007)

TonyHunt said:


> A man after me own heart Grizzly. When I go to the shows I only have to look inside the door of 95% of the vans on offer to dismiss them immediately for lack of comfort. Another personal dislike is garages (although very handy for stowing junk) because it means the bed is going to be high and an afterthought because the garage comes first. Some of the new walk round beds are excellent. The Yanks certainly have been doing the comfort and space thing right for years, just a shame they need to be so big. Maybe it will only be time before an English manufacturer trys a slideout model, theyve just about got as big as they are able with double rear axles. The English Fifth wheel company have shown it can be done under 30ft with their Celtic Rambler. What a piece of kit that is and what a Motorhome that would
> make but I daresay maybe cost would be prohibitive.


 8O 
dissagree with this:garage essential for bikes and scooters and tables/bbqs/chairs/wetstuff! don't wanna 'lounge' in a m/h, as it's too small for 2adults 3kids. it's just for travel and sleeping in my view....go out when on site or camped up, preferably to a pub/restaurant :wink: . our m/h has an oven, but it's unused! continental style suits families, especially with vital twin wheels for decent payload... 8)


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## 108872 (Dec 26, 2007)

*how can you buy british*

i have a e769 bought at nec feb.i love my motorhome but for alot of money i have had alot of problems.nearly a year on still waiting for a couple of things to be sorted by marquis tweksbury who are a waste of time.most problems sorted myself.swift should employ a motorhomer for final inspection,someone who knows exactly what the new owner wants.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

TonyHunt said:


> A man after me own heart Grizzly. When I go to the shows I only have to look inside the door of 95% of the vans on offer to dismiss them immediately for lack of comfort. Another personal dislike is garages (although very handy for stowing junk) because it means the bed is going to be high and an afterthought because the garage comes first. Some of the new walk round beds are excellent. The Yanks certainly have been doing the comfort and space thing right for years, just a shame they need to be so big. Maybe it will only be time before an English manufacturer trys a slideout model, theyve just about got as big as they are able with double rear axles. The English Fifth wheel company have shown it can be done under 30ft with their Celtic Rambler. What a piece of kit that is and what a Motorhome that would make but I daresay maybe cost would be prohibitive.


How can you "dismiss them immediately for lack of comfort just by looking in the door",do you sit on your eyes :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Gary


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

sersol said:


> TonyHunt said:
> 
> 
> > A man after me own heart Grizzly. When I go to the shows I only have to look inside the door of 95% of the vans on offer to dismiss them immediately for lack of comfort. Another personal dislike is garages (although very handy for stowing junk) because it means the bed is going to be high and an afterthought because the garage comes first. Some of the new walk round beds are excellent. The Yanks certainly have been doing the comfort and space thing right for years, just a shame they need to be so big. Maybe it will only be time before an English manufacturer trys a slideout model, theyve just about got as big as they are able with double rear axles. The English Fifth wheel company have shown it can be done under 30ft with their Celtic Rambler. What a piece of kit that is and what a Motorhome that would make but I daresay maybe cost would be prohibitive.
> ...


I don't want to answer for Mr Hunt but I think I know what he means.

When dealer/show wombling we tend to dismiss all the forward dinette vehicles without taking a second glance as we don't believe they'll suit our crew of two people and two bearded collies. We then dismiss anything with a bed that requires window cleaner/mountaineering skills as vertigo and stiff joints combine in jointigo. :roll:

That leaves relatively few vans which at least makes any choice easier. If only they would park all the unsuitable ones together and save us time and effort so we could go straight to the ones that were OK for us:lol:

Andy


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: Payload*



Rapide561 said:


> Andy
> 
> Can I clarify.....
> 
> ...


Hi Russell,
You are right on the E789 the Mass in Running Order (MRO) is 4165kg with a Maximum Technical Permissable Load (MTPLM) of 5000kg which provides an 835kg Payload. The vehicle can Tow a maximum of 1600kg - but you're still restricted to the 6000kg Gross Train Weight. So if you choose to tow upto the maximum 1600kg you would have to reduce your payload accordingly to just 235kg.

We make this this point in our brochures and on the website; 
http://www.swiftleisure.com/Motorho...operties/ModelID-74?scrollLeft=0&scrollTop=78

Thanks,
Andy -Swift Group Technical


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

takeaflight said:


> Can't ask for a better service than that.
> 
> A reply on Boxing Day
> 
> Thanks


Perhaps we ought to nickname Peter Smith 'Rusty': you know; 'Rust Never Sleeps' 

Harvey

(Edit ) whoops; I see it was Andy.......


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: how can you buy british*



pricey007 said:


> i have a e769 bought at nec feb.i love my motorhome but for alot of money i have had alot of problems.nearly a year on still waiting for a couple of things to be sorted by marquis tweksbury who are a waste of time.most problems sorted myself.swift should employ a motorhomer for final inspection,someone who knows exactly what the new owner wants.


Hi Pricey007
If you want to send us a PM with your details we will look into it and see if we can get things sorted for you as soon as were back in the new year,
thanks
Andy


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: Payload*



SwiftGroup said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> > Andy
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Just to put the figures in perspective, a trailer of 1600kg would be something along the lines of a Vauxhall Astra on a twin wheel trailer - that is a fair old weight really.

Russell


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

*Who'd buy British?*

Think this thread has reached the natural conclusion - as so many before - in that all of us have different opinions about what we see as priorities in a motorcaravan.

For a long time, I've taken the view that many British mainstream vans have been poorly designed and built, but I think that is on the change, and some of the new offerings from Swift in particular have been very welcome. Some of the smaller manufacturers like IH have shown that it can be done - at a price. I'm not yet convinced about the aftersales side, particularly from the dealer side, and I'm just waiting to see if the level of support improves and is maintained. I know people like Johns Cross will fight their corner on this one, but it needs to be universal and not patchwork.

Smick


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: Who'd buy British?*



smick said:


> Think this thread has reached the natural conclusion - as so many before - in that all of us have different opinions about what we see as priorities in a motorcaravan.
> 
> For a long time, I've taken the view that many British mainstream vans have been poorly designed and built, but I think that is on the change, and some of the new offerings from Swift in particular have been very welcome. Some of the smaller manufacturers like IH have shown that it can be done - at a price. I'm not yet convinced about the aftersales side, particularly from the dealer side, and I'm just waiting to see if the level of support improves and is maintained. I know people like Johns Cross will fight their corner on this one, but it needs to be universal and not patchwork.
> 
> Smick


I wonder what JCM & SWIFTGROUPs attitude was before joining MHF? Were people fobbed off or did they not get complaints passed onto them?
BTW 234kg is only about the wife myself & pooch--- ish--does this allow for fuel & water? obviously no food or clothing :lol: but then again if you need to tow a car why not buy a caravan :wink: :lol: :lol: 
terry


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: Who'd buy British?*



maddie said:


> smick said:
> 
> 
> > Think this thread has reached the natural conclusion - as so many before - in that all of us have different opinions about what we see as priorities in a motorcaravan.
> ...


Terry,we fobbed people off and back to their dealer! Now we are more end customer focused and our intention is to bring our dealers with us.The MHF has done this and to the benefit of non forum users as well.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Totaly off subject after reading this but I am not writing it again so here goes
What do dealers do for there money????(£3500 to £6000+)YES I know they have overheads and PXs and to deal with joe PUBLIC.What I am trying to say is 
PDI ?surely it should not leave the factory if it needs completing and or parts missing? why not have a test bed at the end of line to check that all is working correctly?MAKE the guy who has followed the last guy check on his/her work and send it back, then if it comes faulty again and they miss it or let it pass,make them do it or report the fault.YOU WILL SOON IRON OUT the problem in your work force.Take a bit of pride in your product,testing that it is ok after doing what you have done before letting it go to the next man.I COULD GO ON but my head hurts so RANT over
terry


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

On the point about dealers, let's not forget that usually the dealerships represent UK and Continental (and the odd US sometimes) brands at the same time, so wherever your van comes from the service (or not) is the same.

I can't think of a motorhome dealership that survives on one brand but my experience with cars is that one brand dealers are the absolute best and multi brand dealers treat it like just another tin can.

Andy

PS
So maybe Swift Group should set up a retail chain to control standards and bring the rest kicking and screaming into the world where the customer is right and isn't just a wallet to be emptied and then ignored. Mind you that would probably cost more than several new factories. 8O


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: Who'd buy British?*



maddie said:


> smick said:
> 
> 
> > Think this thread has reached the natural conclusion - as so many before - in that all of us have different opinions about what we see as priorities in a motorcaravan.
> ...


The 235 kg is still available AFTER the water, gas and diesel, plus an allowance of 75 kg for the driver. So unless your pooch and missus weigh 235 kg.... I shall stop there.

Russell


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: Who'd buy British?*

Russell[/quote]
good move :lol: both dog & misis weigh less than me but thats over 75kg :lol: 
terry


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## 108872 (Dec 26, 2007)

*i want to buy british*

andy,thanks for a quick reply. can,t pm as site wont let me.not brilliant on these things.my email is [email protected]. if you send me your e mail i will send details. thankyou.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: i want to buy british*



pricey007 said:


> andy,thanks for a quick reply. can,t pm as site wont let me.not brilliant on these things.my email is [email protected]. if you send me your e mail i will send details. thankyou.


Hi pricey007,
I have tried emailing the above address but it keeps bouncing back, if you email Kath Powell our customer Services Director at [email protected] with your details we will investigate when we are back on the 3rd Jan, thanks
Andy


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## b6x (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: i want to buy british*



SwiftGroup said:


> pricey007 said:
> 
> 
> > andy,thanks for a quick reply. can,t pm as site wont let me.not brilliant on these things.my email is [email protected]. if you send me your e mail i will send details. thankyou.
> ...


pricey007 - Now that service has got to be worth the tenner subscription surely?


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## 108872 (Dec 26, 2007)

*why buy british*

andy, thanks again for your quick reply.will send details.b6xbrilliant service has i havent paid[a tenner........yet.used to go on mmm online but this site seems updated quicker.p.s a tenner of deisel could get me away for the weekend.not far i know but i have been known to sleep in it on the drive to stop withdrawel syptoms. :lol:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> I can't think of a motorhome dealership that survives on one brand but my experience with cars is that one brand dealers are the absolute best and multi brand dealers treat it like just another tin can.
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy, you have just met one, we are a ONE BRAND dealership on new, SWIFT ONLY and support the product. We were going to stock new Devon's as we are lacking a panel van conversion, but as soon as we knew Swift were going to do one, we dropped the idea as we would prefer to stay 100% Swift

Yes we know plenty of other makes as we obviously supply pre-owned MH's either 'bought in' or PX's.

The majority of our staff have been with us since we opened some 12 years ago and have many years of experience in the leisure industry as regards MH's and Caravans and all accessories.

-----------------------​
*" I wonder what JCM & SWIFTGROUPs attitude was before joining MHF? Were people fobbed off or did they not get complaints passed onto them? "*

As far as we were concerned in those days, any one supplying us with faulty or sub-standard product got their backsides well kicked and comments passed back very forcefully.

Don't forget we also pay good money for product, we don't get it given us and sub standard product is no good to us, we are proud of our reputation and have no intention of losing it.

You will note that Swift is the only converter to show their face on here and they listen not only to the consumers point of view but ours as well as their supply retail dealer. A number of suggestions that our staff have made have been incorporated in production.

As far as the customer was concerned. we sorted any problems, end of story, there is no other way.


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## Steptoe (Nov 8, 2005)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> We were going to stock new Devon's as we are lacking a panel van conversion, but as soon as we knew Swift were going to do one, we dropped the idea as we would prefer to stay 100% Swift


I didn't realise this despite having just looked around the factory, guess I wasn't paying attention  do you know if it will be a separate design or a rebadged Autocruise model?

BTW thanks for your posts, it is good to get the dealers perspective on issues


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Steptoe said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> > We were going to stock new Devon's as we are lacking a panel van conversion, but as soon as we knew Swift were going to do one, we dropped the idea as we would prefer to stay 100% Swift
> ...


I think Peter dropped a hint that Swift were developing a smaller van several months ago, even before their Autocruise purchase. From what was said at the time I wasn't sure whether he was referring to further derivatives of the 600EK/510 size van or a PVC.

Andy


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Steamdrivenandy said:
> 
> 
> > I can't think of a motorhome dealership that survives on one brand but my experience with cars is that one brand dealers are the absolute best and multi brand dealers treat it like just another tin can.
> ...


Funnily enough I actually wondered whether JCM were a solus dealership as I wrote that post. It just shows you're getting under our skin 8O

Shame you're so far south, we've had the odd problem having issues resolved by our dealer because they're 240 miles away, you guys are even further at about 270 miles. You haven't got a northern branch have you? :lol:

I often wonder what happened to the olde worlde tearoom we used to visit that was near your site. If I recall it was set in an old orchard and you could help yourself to as much cake as you could handle. Very appealing to a small sweet toothed lad. We used to go there during visits to my grandparents who lived in a bungalow on the edge of Hailsham (now under swathes of little boxes) 8O

Andy


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> > Steamdrivenandy said:
> ...


Hi Andy,

Whats another 30 miles between friends and we can supply the cakes.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Cakes*

Hi

Peter, if there's cakes involved, mine's a vanilla slice and a cream horn for the dog.

Russell


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