# animals left in vans!



## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

I have just spent a weekend at Baltic Wharf and am horrified to observe the number of people leaving animals in MHs and caravans for a whole day In my opinion that's unfair on the animals and risky from a safety point of view - it's also against CC guidelines but in the past wardens, I have found, are reluctant to get involved 8O


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

richardjames said:


> I have just spent a weekend at Baltic Wharf and am horrified to observe the number of people leaving animals in MHs and caravans for a whole day


A lot of people IMHO seem to discover that responsible pet ownership and a camping holiday are not always compatible. The pet might well be cool and comfortable in the van for a couple of hours but to leave it all day is cruel. It also does not do much for the sanity of those around who have to put up with it barking and howling when it gets bored.

Call the RSPCA if the warden won't deal with it and the dog is clearly unhappy.

G


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dogs*

Hi

Jenny will stay in the van for hours and she is perfectly content. I have left a video camera running in the past and within moments of me going out, she goes to sleep. She is however 11 1/2 and so not in the need of constant playing and exercise. The van is airconditioned and today, whilst I went to Tesco, I left the aircon running for her.

If I saw a dog that was clearly in a distressed state - and hot with no ventilation, then I would more than happily put a window through. Also, if the dog was barking and causing a commotion, then the site staff should be advised of the same.

Russell


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I had a tenant in a house, he kept 12 greyhounds in a shed. RSPCA and council were informed. As the dogs were fed and watered every 24 hours neither would do nothing.
Eventually i evicted him


DAve P


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

i'm with Russel, we leave our labs for max 3/4 hrs, they don't make any noise they just go to sleep, and they get more exercise when we're out in the van than they do at home where they are left for sometimes 6 hrs. dennis


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Leaving animals in a house is, I think, abit different. A motorhome or caravan is a smaller unit and with all the windows secure there can be a rapid build up of heat. Up to an hour is, I think, fine, but these I saw was all day in the heat of the weekend!!


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## kennyo (Mar 22, 2006)

How many dog owners let there dog roam the house all day I bet they are just in one room also there is people who keep there dogs in cages all day. We leave ours in the Mh and he just goes to sleep. So tell whats the diffrence between a mh and a room bet you the dog would prefer to be in the mh


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## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

If, and a big if in weather like we are having, the van is cool inside and the dog(s) dont bark or howl, I dont see it should be a problem. On rare occasions we have left them for up to 6 hours when we are home, so apart from the heat why should it be any different in a van?. I hate to see dogs, large and small, dragged round shops, shows etc. they cant possibly enjoy the experience, especially when it is very hot.

This weekend, we had all windows/skylights open and blinds drawn, including windscreen covered. it was cooler in the van than outside. It was a C &CC rally so it was possible to do this, not so safe on a commercial site.

I think perhaps a lot of sites have a 'no dogs to be left in vans' policy to prevent yapping, barking, howling, whining dogs - not all dogs behave like this - thank goodness!
-


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Each to their own opinion. Our 5 dogs go on holiday to the local kennels whilest we are away.
No heat or noisy children to bother them. Only took dogs on hols onc 30 something years ago. Most young children think dogs are toys.
They do not go into town and may be a bit nervous of all the people.
We saw several "lost " looking dogs in Skegness yesterday.
They would probably preferred being at home or in mh out of the crowds.


DAve P


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## dora (Jan 23, 2008)

My dogs are full members of my family and although have had to leave them at kennels for long weekends when I visit my daughter in Spain, they usually come with us. 
That sometimes means if we go out for a drink or meal or festival (Which we all know the Spanish love), we leave them at HOME in the motorhome.
They do regard the motorhome as their home, they have their beds and we make sure the motorhome is well ventilated. 
Sometimes when it has been quite hot we have left them for half to quarter of a day in the motorhome as it is cooler than sitting in the sun (which we like). They are happy, they have freedom to move about, drink water, sleep, look out the window. They are secure knowing no matter where we are they have a walk morning and evening and we are in doubt prefer this to living in a cage for a fortnight. 
They are also well socialised and do not get nervous in towns or country as a consequence.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

We normally leave our dogs in our small motorhome. We have a thermostatic fan in the roof and mostly park so the back of the van is facing the sun (no windows at rear), if it is going to help I put up the internal or external silver screens.

But and its a big but you can get caught out if you don't think about it all the time. 

We left them for only 40 minutes on a cool but sunny day in Orkney. We went out well wrapped up against the wind but when we got back it was warm in the van, the dogs weren't exactly distressed but one was panting a bit. On that occasion the sun was coming in the side and we didn't leave the fan on. So that brought it home to us to be even more careful in future. 

Just to put that into perspective both dogs have been lying in the sun panting all day today and could we get them into the shade ......


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

We will leave our dogs in our coachbuilt van for several hours. 

To do so we pull up the silver blinds to keep the sun out. There is a Fiamma turbo vent roof fan with thermostat. If neccesary, we will leave an oscolating table fan on too. The van will then stay within 1 degree of outside ambient temperature. We have an in/out temp guague, so can monitor this.

One of our dogs is very nervous, her van is her home, she is far more content in there than outside.

Our dogs are our top priority. Not everybody is like this, but what what really gets my goat is people making ill-informed statements like dogs should not be left in vans. 

Our dogs are rescue dogs, both were in a cage for up to a year before rehoming. What is cruel in my opinion is sending them to boarding kennels, back to a cage.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

krull said:


> but what what really gets my goat is people making ill-informed statements like dogs should not be left in vans.


No-one in this thread has said this. The original poster said:

_I have just spent a weekend at Baltic Wharf and am horrified to observe the number of people leaving animals in MHs and caravans *for a whole day * In my opinion that's unfair on the animals and risky from a safety point of view _

G


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

I think most M/h owners with pets are conscientious, however, just one thing to point out, how often do you go to the loo in the day??

Make sure your pets can do so, it is very distressing for them to have to cope with a full bladder etc, just as it would be for us.....

My opinion, is that three hours is the max any animal should be left if unable to get outside to toilet.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

One other thing we always leave water both when away or when leaving them at home but they don't touch it until we come back its almost as if they need our permission 

and another other thing

Don't think that it is cruel to use a cage, ours will almost fight over who gets to go in the cage, it is a place of safety and calmness. What upsets them about kennels is being trapped next to other dogs, not being caged per se.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I leave my dog in the Motorhome when we are away.
We take him for a walk first so he goes to toilet and then leave him water and food.
The blinds are pulled up and he snuggles down on his blanket.
I leave the top vents open for air to circulate.
When we get back we exercise him and play football.
People have to leave there dogs at home when they go to work so what is the difference in a motorhome.

There is no way I would leave my dog in a kennel as he is nervous of other dogs and it would undo all the hard work we have put into him these past 2 years.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

The clubs that run dog shows under Kennel Club authority are paranoid about not leaving dogs in vehicles. I can understand why as there've been several cases, over the years, where dogs have died due to heat build up. You'd think that to participate in shows you must be a dog lover, but some people just don't seem to understand how quickly spaces like cars and vans can warm up, even with windows open, and how distressingly hot they can become. Even with full page warnings in entry schedules and catalogues and constant PA warnings during the event people still do it. 

Several years ago our Rosie was entered at Leeds Dog Show when we had three beardies and our panel van. Our pup wasn't old enough to be let in the show, so Mrs SDA took Rosie off to the showground. I unfurled the awning and put up the puppy pen, leaving the sliding side and rear lifthatch doors wide open. It was a beautiful day and the temperature was way up in the '80's. Both the puppy and our oldie beardie stayed with me and lazed around under the awning. They seemed to prefer to stay outside, where there was a slight breeze, to snoozing in the van, which effectivly had one third of it's sides open to the air as well as fully open Heki's.

Three times during the day there was a patrol around all vehicles in the car parking areas to check no dogs were in distress. Apparently they found two cars with dogs in that had to have their owners called urgently. When they saw our set up the stewards thought it was wonderful and wished more people operated like that.

SDA


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Cars are a different story, as an animal will cook In a car.
I left Ray (hubby) at Hamble, in the motorhome asleep in the heat this weekend and he was OK. :lol:


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

WE leave our Barny in the M/H for periods, obviously taking care of vents etc, as to how long, how long do most people sleep at night?, just 3 hrs, I think not. As someone said, before leaving them, take them for there ablutions and they are quite happy in the knowledge that you will be back to give them a cuddle etc.


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## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

I think the solitude of a MH all day is far more plush than the tiny boxes at crowded dog homes and besides, Zoos cage animals forever so I doubt if a pooch would keel over if left for a few hours. 

Anyway, it may have been a free range MH and the mutt was fresh rations for their evening meal. :roll: 

Shane.....


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## PlanetGen (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi Guys and Gals, this weekend amazed me. We have just come back from Crick Boat Show and two things have really got my back up.
1) On Sunday couple walks up with a Chocolate Lab, really hot, tiw dog on Motoramas flag pole. Start looking at Canal Boats, come back hour later, Dog looks nearly dead! We called security and the owners told security to mind their own business! - Told owner he is a moron, had similar answer!
2) Tannoy on Sunday. "Can the owners come to your Renault Megane as your two Labs are in distress, they have been in the vehicle for 2 hours."
Same announcement an hour later, RSPCA called nothing done. The announcer even said they looked distressed and it was irresponsible!

Given the fact that I rent my home I cant have a pet which annoys me as I would love a dog. Amazes me people like that can have Pets!


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## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

The neighbours either side of me have just grassed back gardens, no flowerbeds etc. but my wife likes to keep flowers and stuff in our back garden. Well, both neighbours have cats but not a bit of cat poo on their pristine lawns but out rose bed is so overflowing with their cats dung that they have even taken to doing their toilet fun on our lawn. Last night one of the damn cats somehow became trapped in our house. I let it out and said to it as it sauntered out, 'big mistake cat'! :twisted: 

The answer? The MH is fueled up, an empty box awaits inside and one or two cats over the next day or two will be going with me on a very long one way (for them) trip. :evil: 

Shane.....


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

Is`ent that nice of simplelife to take other peoples cats away on holiday.
I hope he puts sun cream on them. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Nickynoo (May 18, 2007)

It does seem that most people are sensitive about leaving dogs in the van,and take all precautions, they do get considerably hotter than houses though, even on a relatively cool but sunny day.
We only go away for short breaks weekends and bankholidays and one 2week break. Our dog is three and we have never left her in the car or the motorhome. She goes everywhere with us. to shops and pubs but mainly long walks . We are lucky that my husband works from home and she is only left occasionally ,when we go for an evening out or to visit friends and family. She does seem happy enough left at home for a max of 4hrs. 
What I worry about is dognapping I would never forgive myself if she were stolen from the car or van or overheated. 
We were recently staying in the Cairngorms and we were asked not to leave our dog in the van . The chap opposite us had 2 cats with him which he walked morning and evening without leads they just followed him and ignored all the dogs who were straining on their leads to get them!


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## rickndog (Apr 5, 2008)

Given the high temperatures at the moment, I'd advise people to be very careful about leaving dogs unattended in motorhomes for even relatively short periods of time. Even with roof vents open and using silverscreens, etc. the temperature can still rise rapidly with potentially fatal consequences.

A local tragic event is perhaps a good reminder of what can happen when animals are left in hot vehicles.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8129826.stm


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

In the news today 2 police dogs left in a vehicle had died due to heat.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

We're in Kendal & it's currently 29degrees.
I for one gave a little cheer for the policeman who's just smashed a window into a car in which a large rotty had been left for over 90 mins. Dog was obviously distressed & was taken down to the river to cool down.

We regularly leave Pushka in the van - but as said with sensible precautions - we also get to leave the roof vents open - 'cos to be honest unless you know her you''re not getting in our van with her already in it :lol:


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

As many of you know. we have a large parrot. She was built for a hot climate however we would not leave her for very long in our motorhome when weather is hot. In the winter she will be left longer but we take her out whenever possible and she is always left with food, drink and ventilation.

If anyone wants to meet her she will be with us at Pickering.

She is available for weddings barmitzvas and motorhome shows :wink:


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

We are absolutely disgusted to hear on the news about the two police dogs left in a car/van who died. Especially as we have just had our Rigger put to sleep two weeks ago. A tragic accident, my foot. What gets me is they seem to be shrugging it off and don't care two hoots apparently. If that had been a member of the public I expect it would be taken very seriously by the authorities and criminal proceedings started. I hope that after the investigation the media pursue it and justice is done. They deserve to have the book thrown at them. I have always been under the impression that police dog handler's treated their dogs as if a member of their own family.


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

Simplelife said:


> The answer? The MH is fueled up, an empty box awaits inside and one or two cats over the next day or two will be going with me on a very long one way (for them) trip. :evil:
> 
> Shane.....


I hope this is a joke. It's not the poor cats fault-that is just what they do. How would you like to be abandoned somewhere you don't know ? More cruelty.... 8O


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Seems like 'Plod' is just as thoughtless about their animals as other pet owners.

When you also read it costs £1 million a year to put right all the police vehicles that the drivers have put the wrong fuel in......... makes you wonder just how bright some of our guardians are???   

Ray.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

lindyloot said:


> We are absolutely disgusted to hear on the news about the two police dogs left in a car/van who died. Especially as we have just had our Rigger put to sleep two weeks ago. A tragic accident, my foot. What gets me is they seem to be shrugging it off and don't care two hoots apparently. If that had been a member of the public I expect it would be taken very seriously by the authorities and criminal proceedings started. I hope that after the investigation the media pursue it and justice is done. They deserve to have the book thrown at them. I have always been under the impression that police dog handler's treated their dogs as if a member of their own family.


Of course I have only read the BBC link given in a previous MHF post and so do not have your apparently full account of incident but I can still see no evidence that

_A tragic accident, my foot. What gets me is they seem to be shrugging it off and don't care two hoots apparently. _

as you allege. How do you know that no criminal proceedings will be taken ? How do you know the exact circumstances ?

Have you ever been interviewed by a newspaepr and then been stunned to see what you said manipulated to fit the circumstances ? It is possible that the RSPCA vet quoted was interviewed years ago and his wise words taken from the archives for one thing.

Do you _ really, honestly _ believe that the police will let this go by uninvestigated ?

G


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## rickndog (Apr 5, 2008)

Having been a dog handler many years ago (and still a dog owner) I expect that the officer in this case is devastated by what has occurred. Without knowing the facts, I'm certainly not prepared to jump to any conclusions. What I do know is that the incident will be thoroughly investigated to ascertain if criminal or disciplinary charges should be brought against the officer.

In the past I've attended cases of canine heatstroke and sometimes the dog has been dead or died shortly afterwards despite appropriate care being given. In all cases, the owners involved were decent people who had not intended or expected such an outcome and believed that they'd taken measures to prevent it. 

For all of us there is a lesson - dogs left in vehicles during extreme heat are at risk. Even if we think we've taken sensible precautions we can't be certain that we've eliminated the risk. Death can occur in as little as 10 minutes and even if the dog survives, it may suffer kidney or liver damage. If in doubt take your dog with you.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

It always make me laugh when i see a sentence with police and intelligence!


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

As I've posted elsewhere we've been house hunting for the last few days with the beardies in our van.

We have cab aircon and the beardies fabric crate sits behind the cab seats where the dinette table fits at other times. The crate has large nylon net 'windows' in all sides and we 'aim' the aircon from the dashboard towards the gap between the cab seats. That seems to keep the dogs relatively cool in this hot weather whilst we're on the move.

However when we viewed a house yesterday we persuaded the agent who was showing us round to let the dogs go into the 'secure' garden whilst we looked round the house. This seemed to work OK and the dogs found a shady spot to chill out.

It was more of a problem at night when our internal van thermometer read 26 degrees at 11pm on Tuesday night and had only reduced to 24 degrees by Wednesday morning.

Last night the internal temp. was 25 at bed time but with every roof vent and window wide open and the help of a slight cooling breeze after midnight we were down to 21 degrees this morning.

On the way home this morning I even worried about them when I stopped and went to buy a McDonalds coffee even though the cab was cold from the aircon when I locked up. I was only about 2 or 3 minutes but when I got back in to drink the coffee it was already noticeably warmer.

The answer has got to be don't leave them inside in warm weather, even for a relatively short time.

SDA


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

We could have managed a couple of nights away this week, but as it was so hot we decided not to as we thought us and the dogs would be more comfortable at home.

Ref the police dogs there is a topic on the following link which has a email reply from the police force involved ref this awful tragedy.

http://www.visitskegness.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1997

I think you should be able to view it


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

I personally know the officer involved in Nottingham, I can assure you that he is one of the most dedicated dog handlers you will ever find. 
He has reached the top in his profession and competed successfully in the national police dog trial. 
I know he cares for his dogs more than you can ever imagine and he is devastated by what has happened. 
This still does not forgive him for what has happened but I know it was a tragic accident. 
James


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi James I don't actually know what happened other than they were left and died I was gutted to hear about it.

It seems there were more also this week
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8126382.stm


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

It is terrible when any animal dies especially ones loved as much as these two were.
But it is even more tragic when they die unnecessarily. 
I too am a dog handler and know how I feel about my dogs and it tears me apart each time I lose one. 
All I will say is it was a tragic accident.
James


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

It's easy to see a possible scenario: officer goes back to the station say to pick up paperwork- 2 minute job - but is diverted by colleague /senior officer etc and he is indoors longer than expected. As an RSPCA inspector said on air afterwards;even at 22 deg C outside it can still become too hot in a closed van or car within 15 minutes.

How many babies have been snatched from pushchairs or prams or parked cars left outside a shop for 2 minutes while the mother goes in for a paper ?

We all know the hazards and we should all be thinking " there but for the grace of God...." . I can imagine what the officer concerned is going through. All the evidence I have is that police and service dog handlers think more of their dogs than they do of their family. They certainly spend more time with them.

G


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## AL8 (Feb 16, 2009)

Going back to the original post:


richardjames said:


> I have just spent a weekend at Baltic Wharf and am horrified to observe the number of people leaving animals in MHs and caravans for a whole day In my opinion that's unfair on the animals and risky from a safety point of view - it's also against CC guidelines but in the past wardens, I have found, are reluctant to get involved 8O


I'd say that, despite our slightly differing opinions through this thread, all that have posted here are Responsible Dog Owners. Unfortunately, for many, maybe even most Dog Owners the *Responsible* bit is sadly missing, this creates multiple consequences; from dogs dying in cars, to dogs as weapons, to dog mess all over the place, to dogs being ban here, there & everywhere, etc etc etc.

IMHO, all you can do is the best by your own animals, it's impossible to save the world of dogs - even opening your own shelter would barely scratch the surface. People are cruel, abusive & hurtful to each other, children & babies - why would they be any different to a dog? The UK was once the Greatest Dog Loving Nation in the World, unfortunately, even just travelling around Western Europe, I can not see that that is still the case, hence dogs left *all day* in *inappropriate (but maybe not illegal) conditions*, whether that be a car, MH, home, box, yard etc etc. As I said I don't believe anyone posting here would do that.

As for the authorities, they can barely keep the country moving or catch murderers. So, unfortunately, realistically, the care of pet dogs is going to be a fair way down that long list of things to do.

I'd be glad to see a move towards more Responsible Dog Ownership by all, the Kennel Club is doing it's Good Citizen Awards, which it is hoped might be a start, but the KC is in the 'Doghouse' itself and does not, IMO, represent ALL dog owners, but rather only Pedigree Dogs (but that a different post). But with any move towards more Responsible Dog Ownership I can only see that that would involve getting the authorities involved, with all it's nonsense - but if it could be done without all the nonsense that this country seems to bring to the table with anything like this; I'd like to see us *owners* licensed to keep pets, say a 3 yearly renewable licence (without the crazy costs that some would want to charge), say £10 per year per dog? Perhaps the licence could be married to the microchip number. Just like a driving Licence if you have a dog you need a licence. If you walk a dog you need a licence. No Licence no dog(s). Unfortunately, it very quickly all gets a bit 'Big Brother', but unless something is done, that we, as dog owners, can ALL get behind, we will all find the places we can take our dogs diminish more & more & more. Already I need to plan my holidays around 'Summer Dog Bans' on beaches in our favoured areas. Not to mention walks into town were I can not even buy a coffee when our dogs are with me. Nor to mention the very large number of sites that now have a ban on all dogs. And, yes, I fully understand why - that word RESPONSIBLE was missing again! And now, I fear, these decisions are irreversible.

People never remember the 20 dogs that walked pass them without a sniff or a look, only the one that lunged or growled etc.

Any ways, some food for thought & I'll put the soap-box away now :roll:


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## toojo (Dec 4, 2008)

Really enjoyed reading these posts.I think as long as you know your pet and leave it comfortable,it should be ok for a few hours.As I have posted I am taking the pug for the first time this week-end and will be moniterring him closely.John.


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## bonnieboo (Apr 27, 2009)

I am sure most people as responsible dog owners, although we will always have a few that are not.

I wouldnt leave my dogs in a car or motorhome for fear that they would be stolen.
A friend of ours left their Jack russell in a caravan on the services while they went for a cuppa and when they got back the dog had been stolen.

I take the tiny dog with us in the motorhome, the other 2 are left with my sister in law, she comes and stays at our house and looks after the 2 dogs chickens, ducks, geese, parrot, cat and canary.
I take the little dog with us if we leave the car or motorhome, one because of the heat and mostly because I would be heart broken if she was stolen.

Jakki


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I have just caught up with this post. I am sure the officer concernd is gutted, he has lost two of his best mates. A lesson for all.

Simplelife  
We had similar problems with a near neighbour from hell. Over 20 cats using our garden.
She was evicted and between us 2 other neighbours helped catch most of the critters and rehome them.
The problem has started again as barns in the old farm are being demolished. Dozens of them running wild. Tuna is cheaper than kit e kat i believe.


dave P


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