# Fixing into Ceiling and floor on Arto 69 GL



## nicholsong

I confess to ignorance of the make-up and depth of the material above ceiling and below floor.

Apart from this specific request does anyone have a detailed description of the material make-up of N+B MHs and in particular Arto 69 (2003)?

I need to fix a smoke/CO alarm to the ceiling and a fire extinguisher, preferably on the floor in the cab. [OK late in the day, but before I only had my own safety to consider!]

Do smoke alarms have to be fitted horizontally or can they be fitted vertically to a bulkhead.

Can I screw into these areas, and if so to what depth?

For the fire ext. the depth may not need to be much as it is only retaining lateral load and the smoke alarms are quite light.

Geoff


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## Spacerunner

Use heavy duty Velcro (B&Q)to fix smoke alarm.
Handy when you're doing toast  

I have our smoke alarm fitted on a vertical wall just above the door on the premise that any smoke/fumes will be sucked that way initially.


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## inkey-2008

I have one fitted on a wall over the door, that does not seem to deter it from going off as soon as the toast is under the grill.

Drilling though the cab floor might be risky unless you have a good idea what is under it.

Andy


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## val33

The Arto is an aluminium / styrofoam / aluminium construction, the roof and walls are 25mm styrofoam.

In most cases you can safely use a 20-25mm self tapper as the lining carpet adds another mm or two. The aluminium skin is of a reasonable thickness to will support quite a weight.

The floor of the cab is steel, but check underneath for pipe and cable runs.

HTH

Val


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## nicholsong

Val

Thank you for the info on construction. I could have e-mailed to Polch but MHF Members are often quicker.

It is a pity that the N+B Manual (albeit v. good compared with others) does not include this info.

As 'spacerunner' suggested maybe the smoke alarm is best mounted with Velcro for easy removal (advice is to never remove the battery) to clear it once smoke source has been dealt with.

But if one were mounting something heavier with self-tappers and wanted to avoid puncturing the outer aluminium layer, how much holding power is there with a self-tapper into the first aluminium and styrofoam? Not getting picky, just want to know.

Cab steel floor, presumably Fiat original, no problem subject to caveat re checking pipes/cables/tanks etc.

Thanks again

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear

I'd use everbuild internal no nails to mount a nice piece of wood and screw into that, you'll get a much stronger fixing that way.

We use the external to hold our rosemary tiles on to the dormer walls in a very windy valley, I did a test to see if it would do the job, 2 of us could not get it to break it's hold after 2 days, well impressed, not cheap but it does the job well.

Never EVER screw into anything which will cost the earth to put right.


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## eurajohn

I think you will find the inner skin of the laminate sandwich will be of thin wood or a similar substitute not aluminium. I don't know for sure what the outer of the N&B will actually be but most manufacturers utilise plastic / GRP derivative as the outer section.


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## gaspode

eurajohn said:


> I think you will find the inner skin of the laminate sandwich will be of thin wood or a similar substitute not aluminium.


In the case of N&B 'vans, the inner wall is in fact aluminium, not laminate. I had to laught last week when the dealer was doing a damp check on our Arto. He came back with a worried expression and informed me that the whole interior was damp - although strangely it didn't feel wet at all. It was giving full reading on his little meter - because it's aluminium and shows a short circuit on damp testing meters. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
There is no timber used in N&B wall or roof construction.

As for screwing things on, you only need very short self tapping screws as only the inner wall will give any support. You need to use a lot of screws as the inner skin is quite thin (about 1mm from memory). Our spare wheel was held on a wall bracket screwed on using twelve short self-tappers and it weighed 25kg so the inner skin will support plenty of weight provided you use plenty of fixings to spread the load.


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## eurajohn

I bow to your superior knowledge gaspode, pretty bizarre though!!


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## gaspode

eurajohn said:


> pretty bizarre though!!


Not really. :lol:

Bailey are using the same construction method on their new range of caravans and advertising it as a technical breakthrough, they obviously haven't realised that N&B have been building them like this for years. Like I said, even the dealers don't appear to know how they're made so why should you? :wink:

They use prefabricated panels with a layer of styrofoam bonded both sides to aluminium sheet, the sheets are joined at the corners by using a patent aluminium section which clamps and seals the edges. This means they don't need any timber framework so they're impervious to rot, even if water gets in it doesn't do any permanent damage.

Only snag is that it costs a lot more than the usual timber frame and GRP (or aluminium) outer skin/laminate inner skin method.


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## VanFlair

Hi

The current construction details are on the Niesmann web site, and you can download pdf brochures from a few years back and I dont think the construction has changed significantly.

Martin


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## clianthus

vanroyce said:


> Hi
> 
> The current construction details are on the Niesmann web site, and you can download pdf brochures from a few years back and I dont think the construction has changed significantly.
> 
> Martin


Here's a link if anyone wants it:

http://www.niesmann-bischoff.de/en/models/travel-motorhomes/2-sided-aluminium/


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## eurajohn

Sounds similar to the system that Pilote / Frankia use, no wood there either.


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## nicholsong

Gaspode

As usual most helpful advice, and re the self-tappers, confirmed my thinking that only the inner aluminium skin would provide much support. I am now trying to work out whether the size of the screw head would make much difference, but assume not since the load is on the thread.

As for fixing the fire extinguisher to the steel floor, my idea would be to bolt it through, if I can get access underneath. That way I can use an external washer and sealant to protect the exposed metal.

Thanks everyone for your help. Now just need the temp to get up from -10.1C (at 1230) 

The more I learn about my N+B the more I am pleased that Hymer, Preston showed me one when they did not have a Hymer with garage to show me. No, I did not buy through them - I left a deposit and they sold it over my head (albeit not banking the deposit) They saved me GBP 6,000!

Geoff


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