# UK becoming a third world country?



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Having just returned from driving in Spain and France for three months the first noticeable difference on arriving home was the terrible state of our roads here in the UK. Are we becoming a third world country if we cannot maintain our roads to the quality of France and Spain?


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

:surprise:The state of our roads is now worse than belgium!


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

I havnt been in the UK for a while but the worst roads in western europe are German. Most of their motorways have not been maintained since Adolph.
The autobhan between Munich and Stuttgart is a particular disgrace. They were working on enlarging it before my OH left Germany in 1995. They have got nowhere. Every year the same old story. We joke that Angela should ask the French to fix it. We do build a damned good road in France...and quickly too !


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

How does everyone feel about paying more tax to pay for it? Obviously there's not enough desire to have multinationals pay their tax, so the money has to come from somewhere...


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Leffe NL said:


> How does everyone feel about paying more tax to pay for it? Obviously there's not enough desire to have multinationals pay their tax, so the money has to come from somewhere...


We could call it the "Road Fund."

Ohhh ..... Hang on, the UK did that years ago .............. then stopped using the money on roads, then changed it's name.

.


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

Bad roads = 3rd world country; I don't think so. The state of our roads is worse than a lot of similar countries and there is no point in bringing up VED as that argument is long gone. However, what really annoys me in this area is the local council dig up and re-surface roads that are reasonable and leave lots of other roads with pot holes, patches. It very much depends on where you live and how much clout your local councillor has.

My worst road, third world countries apart, was the autobahn between Helmstedt and Berlin in the 70s. Adolf built it and nothing had been done since other than a few bomb craters that had been filled in.

Dave


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If a "Utility Company" digs up the road in the UK e.g. for telephone cables, or drainage works or whatever they are REQUIRED to leave it in as good a state as it was before......

BUT, once dug up you cannot get the same volume of earth/hardcore etc. back in - we've all found that, so they leave it slightly proud in the vain hope that it will compact down to the right level.....

The LA is supposed to insist that they come back and resurface to the same standard once it has settled but most don't bother to follow them through and simply "wait and see".

Roads here (France) are maintained by three different levels of authority; the N roads are maintained by the National Government, the D by the Department and the C by the Commune under the control of the local Marie.

Our road leading to our house was resurfaced in about 3 hours and the crews did about 3km per day...... no traffic lights or controls, you simply wait for them to move out of the way, generally the surface is good but one of our D roads (9 km) has been left since last August with a terrible surface on it and a 50kph limit on large chunks with "Loose gravel" signs still everywhere - we HOPE that is because the Department is insisting that it be redone..... but we are waiting and waiting (and ignoring the 50kph signs like everyone else).

So the grass is not always greener, there are poorly maintained roads here, but the majority are MUCH narrower, do not have drains (ditches at the sides work better) and of course, carry much less traffic........

Dave


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

Shall we start a " whats the wprst autobahn competition " ?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Apart from major routes and motorways aren't our roads funded by local authorities. The same ones who have seen their money reduced by 40%?

Dick


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

Penquin said:


> If a "Utility Company" digs up the road in the UK e.g. for telephone cables, or drainage works or whatever they are REQUIRED to leave it in as good a state as it was before......
> 
> BUT, once dug up you cannot get the same volume of earth/hardcore etc. back in - we've all found that, so they leave it slightly proud in the vain hope that it will compact down to the right level.....
> 
> ...


I used to date a Swedish woman who worked for a large Swedish energy company. When they needed to lay new pipes, they'd actually call other interested parties and ask them "do you want to lay your whatever at the same time and share the cost?". Imagine that! I was blown over!


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

salomon said:


> Shall we start a " whats the wprst autobahn competition " ?


Do you mean : what's the wurst autobahn competition?

I'll get me coat...


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

I think it was last year when a group in the UK started spray painting large male genitalia around potholes, forcing the local council to act...


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

The answer is obvious and not just about roads............look at health service,education etc. 
The UK is becoming a third world country because of austerity and massive cuts. 

We are governed by an elite looking out for themselves and their cronies and not even pretending to govern for the common good.
The worst(most successful) thing they have done is to convince the Daily Mailers that it is all in the interest of the country and it ain't good unless it hurts. 
And that it's all been caused by the PC brigade, loony left and the benefit scroungers and immigrants. (oh and the EU)

The UK is not a poor country it's what we decide to spend our money on.............bankers bonuses and dividends or services for all.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

It's all Maggies fault 


tony:wink2:


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

GEMMY said:


> It's all Maggies fault
> 
> tony:wink2:


I'd say a good deal is. With her unfettered belief in the free market (along with Ronnie), and deregulation of markets. This has driven house prices through the roof, which while being good for many here, is terrible for subsequent generations.

Privatising state business for her friends in the city, businesses which I could argue my parents were part owners of, but didn't receive their dividend from the sale.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Leffe NL said:


> I'd say a good deal is. With her unfettered belief in the free market (along with Ronnie), and deregulation of markets. This has driven house prices through the roof, which while being good for many here, is terrible for subsequent generations.
> 
> Privatising state business for her friends in the city, businesses which I could argue my parents were part owners of, but didn't receive their dividend from the sale.


My My,

:laugh:

tony


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Try actually living in Spain for a while then you will know what a third world country is like .They may have some great roads built from EU subsidies and lovely friendly people but everything else about it is hard going with governments determined to tax the people to death to make up for the mistakes they have made.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I do find Normandy all roads are in general very good. 
OK the odd farm yard lane is a bit bumpy but these are rarely used and then only by tractors.

Last year we complained about the state of the Algarve roads but we saw this year miles and miles of running road repairs before the summer rush.

Ray.


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

*Happy Days in Berlin in the early 80's*



dovtrams said:


> Bad roads = 3rd world country; I don't think so. The state of our roads is worse than a lot of similar countries and there is no point in bringing up VED as that argument is long gone. However, what really annoys me in this area is the local council dig up and re-surface roads that are reasonable and leave lots of other roads with pot holes, patches. It very much depends on where you live and how much clout your local councillor has.
> 
> My worst road, third world countries apart, was the autobahn between Helmstedt and Berlin in the 70s. Adolf built it and nothing had been done since other than a few bomb craters that had been filled in.
> 
> Dave


Yep - I used to frequently drive "The Corridor" back in the day between Checkpoints Alfa and Bravo.

We were timed by the RMP to make sure we didn't exceed the speed limits but of course we used to speed along then pull up for 10 mins to run the clock down...

We used to play "spot the VoPo" to break up the tedium of 2.5 hour trips at 50 mph (or whatever)

They used to disguise their (Lada) speed camera cars as taxis - often with a wheel off (pretending a breakdown) or would just drape them with camo netting in a copse (!) to trap the squaddies and get hard currency off us.

I agree, the road surface wasn't great but bear (!) in mind they were built in concrete sections with expansion gaps that used to suffer from the harsh winters and it was East Germany (aka Russia) who should have been mending them...

This link is to an archive article in Stars and Stripes, the US military newspaper, describing how the trip used to be (in 1961 - it didn't change in 20 years) for military personnel of all 3 allied nations (Brits, US and French)... http://www.stripes.com/the-helmstedt-berlin-autobahn-an-adventuresome-strip-of-highway-1.110021

Happy Days in Berlin!!

Cheers

Dave


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## adonisito (Nov 6, 2009)

Mrs Adonisito and I always comment on the state of the M20 when we are coming back from the tunnel, and then you hit the M25 ! After France it's not good enough.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Webby1 said:


> The UK is not a poor country .......


Of course it's not.

A predicted budget deficit of £46bn in 2016 (or £100bn including capital expenditure), billions in "off balance sheet" finance to say nothing of total national debt of about £1.5 trillion. I wonder what it would take for us to be "poor"? Or maybe all these figures are make believe?

I seem to recall that quite a few people were still in denial when the IMF had to bail us out in 1976.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Leffe NL said:


> How does everyone feel about paying more tax to pay for it? Obviously there's not enough desire to have multinationals pay their tax, so the money has to come from somewhere...


I dont think the surface of the roads is that bad but the main problem in the south where I have been working since Friday is volume of traffic. There is a need for at least 10 lanes on the M25 and 10 on the first 50 miles of the M4. Its rubbish.

Took me two and a half hours to go 50 miles from West london on Friday night up towards Oxford. Sort it out southerners! As for us paying for it well if I lived down here I would willingly give half my salary to pay for wider and more roads as I fear I would become an axe wielding murdering maniac if I had to endure this everyday.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Try my job then.>> barryd.

cabby


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

cabby said:


> Try my job then.>> barryd.
> 
> cabby


No, I really would go insane. Had a lot of respect for the cabbies in London when I used to work there. Bonkers most of them and I would try and avoid discussing anything political with them but not an easy job although I never did quite understand why nobody would ever take you from south of the River back to Bloomsbury at 2am.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I would Barry. I was a minicab in London for several years and gladly took all the odd jobs the Black Cabs would't take.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I thought Black Cabs weren't allowed to refuse a fare?

I am probably wrong but that was my impression..... If they were flagged as available they had to accept the fare and not turn it down on the off-chance that they might get a better one...

The limits are that it must be within the licensing area and is under 6 miles in distance unless there is a *REASONABLE* reason not to do so - but no definition of the word "reasonable"....

http://www.londonblackcab.com/ourtaxis.htm

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I would Barry. I was a minicab in London for several years and gladly took all the odd jobs the Black Cabs would't take.
> 
> Ray.


 Last minicab I took was from the Hippodrome in Leicester Square to Hammersmith and he got lost and started asking me the way to Hammersmith!

Well dodgy an all.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I used to live in Hammersmith.good old days.:grin2::grin2:

cabby


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Penquin said:


> I thought Black Cabs weren't allowed to refuse a fare?
> 
> I am probably wrong but that was my impression..... If they were flagged as available they had to accept the fare and not turn it down on the off-chance that they might get a better one...
> 
> ...


Unless you want to go south of the river after 11 of clock :laugh:

Dick


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

greygit said:


> Having just returned from driving in Spain and France for three months the first noticeable difference on arriving home was the terrible state of our roads here in the UK. Are we becoming a third world country if we cannot maintain our roads to the quality of France and Spain?


Apparently the World Economic Forum now ranks the UK 24th in the world in terms of both overall infrastructure and roads. We were 19th in overall terms in 2006. France is ranked 5th overall and 1st in the world for roads. Spain is 18th and 13th respectively. So this certainly confirms what everyone knows.

A pertinent article in this week's Economist entitled "Life in the Slow Lane" includes the following:

_*"Funding for local roads has been cut by 20% in real terms since 2010. Analysis by the RAC Foundation, an independent think-tank, found that the number of potholes being filled in per year has increased fourfold since 2005, suggesting that costly, long-term repair is being sacrificed in favour of patching up. "
*_

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ads-railways-and-airports-fact-infrastructure


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

This is what we need on UK roads.........................
http://www.chonday.com/Videos/rusatvw4

Ray.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Yep - very handy but I notice they don't carry a spare wheel.

Perhaps to save weight - they must have read our MHF thread on that subject!


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

I don't think I would be driving around with the front window open in those temperatures.
:frown2:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I thought it was an add for top gear for a moment, Russian style.:grin2::grin2:

cabby


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Greygit - I notice from your signature that "*I've had two strokes*"

Try a bit of oil in your petrol, sorry medicine, should make things better for you!


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

No that could turn him into a smokey, we have enough trouble keeping bandits at bay on here already.>>

cabby


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

pippin said:


> Greygit - I notice from your signature that "*I've had two strokes*"
> 
> Try a bit of oil in your petrol, sorry medicine, should make things better for you!


 You better hope that karmic retribution is rubbish. :wink2:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Yeah, well try living in the south east. We are so crowded, so bloody crammed !
And the government's answer......build more homes, shops, infrastructure......In the south east. Why for ***** sake. I've been to Yorkshire and Derbyshire and Lancashire all of whom have miles of empty space. Build there, give us a break 
That's why I spend as much time as poss in Europe.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> Yeah, well try living in the south east. We are so crowded, so bloody crammed !
> And the government's answer......build more homes, shops, infrastructure......In the south east. Why for ***** sake.* I've been to Yorkshire and Derbyshire and Lancashire all of whom have miles of empty space. Build there, *give us a break
> That's why I spend as much time as poss in Europe.


Nooooooo! You dont want to build up here. Its grim up north! We live on lard and have outside toilets. Dont come, you will hate it.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> Nooooooo! You dont want to build up here. Its grim up north! We live on lard and have outside toilets. Dont come, you will hate it.


Not funny, not even remotely! 
In my near area alone they've built over the remaining farm land. The local schools please, a ing fields are sold and built over. 
The north is forever complaining they get left out. Well let them share the nation's responsibility of making money and start working again. Get off your outside toilets, bin the lard and roll up your sleeves.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> Not funny, not even remotely!
> In my near area alone they've built over the remaining farm land. The local schools please, a ing fields are sold and built over.
> The north is forever complaining they get left out. Well let them share the nation's responsibility of making money and start working again. Get off your outside toilets, bin the lard and roll up your sleeves.


You certainly wont hear people around here complaining of being left out and Im pretty sure we contribute more than enough, everyone I know here either works or has made enough money not to have to. I assume they all pay tax. You do have my sympathy though. Ive worked in the south east, I was working there last week for five days. How people put up with the overcrowding and the hell of the M25 and M4 everyday is beyond me.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It seems Calais is now a third world town.....................






Ray.


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