# New Business - Classic Motorhome Hire - thoughts please???



## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Hi all - one for the floor...

Flo and I have been toying with the idea for some time about starting up a motorhome hire business with a difference - providing classic 1960's and '70's vehicles for use in UK.

Our thoughts were to start small and expand as needed / when suitable vehicles become available.

We have trawled the 'net to see what was already available and it seems that, other than VW campervans, nobody hires out classic coachbuilts or the like.

Our questions are legion (as you would expect!!!!), however to start, what do you think the market would be for such a venture (We dont expect to become a millionaires out of it, just provide a decent income). Additionally, is there someone on here who can give an unbiased view / costs on insurance etc. (We dont want to contact insurance companies yet as it is early days....).

We dont think we would worry the established hire firms with their modern units, but we would like to provide a nostalgic alternative to the modern rush of life...........

Over to the collective (to be shot down in flames no doubt :wink: ).
Regards
Carl and Flo


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hmm. I can see the charm and quirkiness of hiring VW Campervans (especially after Jamie Oliver used one to go to Italy). They've become decidedly trendy.

There was an article in the Saturday Guardian a couple of weeks ago about someone hiring a VW to do a quick tour of Essex - read it .: HERE :.

I really don't know about classic coachbuilts / non-VW campervans. I don't think there would be much of a market, TBH. Would there be reliability issues?

Gerald


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## JimM (Jul 5, 2005)

The sheer joy (yes joy ) of driving down the road in a 60/70s Comer or Bedford CA pop top or the like sounds good to me !!! 


 & a lot more affordable to a lot more family’s


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## jiffyman (May 11, 2005)

Not everone will go for a VW camper, and to be honest, I think I would hire one if I didnt have my own...

Plus, if the hire coasts were alongside/cheaper than the VW classics, then ,Why not??

as long as they were well maintained etc and you start off slowly to 'test the water' so to speak, I think it could work


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

It was the 'slower relaxed' way of touring that we would want to promote.

The problem with VW's (generally) is the perception of them as trendy, and really only for the 'surf set' or festival type (please dont be offended - just my description 8O ).

We were looking toward the couple / family (maybe from abroad?) who would tour locally in the uk (probably West Country/Cornwall/Wales/Lake District......possibly Scotland if the van was right).

Cost-wise, we were thinking along the lines of sub £400 out of season up to £650 in season (per week) with comparable rates for weekends / long weekends....

One issue we would need to overcome is seatbelts in the rear - they were not exaclty a priority when these old 'uns were built...

Having restored an old Bedouin some years ago, I am very familiar with the construction so am not fazed by any work required...

For this venture, the vans would obviously have to be mechanically and structurally perfect - and visually, we would like them to be as close to factory spec as possible (with obvious upgrades such as 240v Hook-up, waste tanks etc. as inconspicuous as we can make them......)

The list of possibles include:
Autohome Mk1
Bedouin
Highwayman
Romany (on Bedford CA)
Wayfairer or Autosleeper (on Commer)
Dormobile Freeway
Dormobile Landcruiser...........

As we said - early days yet..............


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi,

Main problems with older vans especially VW is RUST!

The good VW's have a following and as they say in the trade make blood!

£400 - £600 a week hire charge is not far off getting a fairly new van, one advantage you would have is NO VAT if you trade under the VAT threshold.

If you want some costings on proper hire insurance, give Gill Jones a ring at Johns Cross.

Good luck

Peter


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

I would think the take up would be quite small.

I'll obviously offend anyone with a classic van, but I think you'd be hard pushed to find many people who would prefer one to a modern van with all mod cons.

Add to that possible reliability problems, lack of performance, poor insulation etc.

The positive is that it's a pretty low cost to dip a toe in the water and see what response you get


Andrew


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Hi,
> 
> Main problems with older vans especially VW is RUST!
> 
> ...


Thanks for this Peter - Ok if I give Gill a call on Tuesday? This is one area that we could see being a minefield!!!!

Regarding the weekly cost - Abacus are quoting £975 / week for April on a Sundance 5 berth....dont know how old it is though.... A colleague at work was looking into hiring one for a couple of weeks to take his family to Devon but considered it was too costly.....
cheers
Carl


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

androidGB said:


> I'll obviously offend anyone with a classic van, but I think you'd be hard pushed to find many people who would prefer one to a modern van with all mod cons.


Agreed - the classics cannot compete with the moderns on spec. etc., however not everyone can afford the cost of hire for a modern unit and it would be our intention that our vans would at least be comfortable and 'on par'.... There seems to be a strong market for the 'Classic VW' campervan hire, but we are sure that these are too small for some people...



androidGB said:


> Add to that possible reliability problems, lack of performance, poor insulation etc.
> 
> The positive is that it's a pretty low cost to dip a toe in the water and see what response you get
> 
> Andrew


A lot to think about yet - and we think it could take us a year to get things sorted and our first van ready......(like I said - early days!!!!!).

We would like to be able to offer a 'tailored' service - maybe put an itinery together if the hirer has not 'motorhomed' before....bespoke, depending on the hirers requirements.....

reliability comes from care and maintenance........lack of performance = relaxed and carefree touring......poor insulation = DONT HIRE IN THE WINTERTIME 8O 8O (He He He). Agreed - have to do something about insulation......

BTW - Going to look at a potential 1st vehicle in the morning.....

Very best regards
Carl and Flo


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## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi
We have just purchased a retro camper van busuness in the south west.
A company called Compucar will give insurance to drivers per day. Approx cost £20 per day.
Go VERY carefull if you are looking at the VW market.Good RHD rust free examples are very hard to find, and when you do you will pay £10,000 to £15,000. Be prepared to spend lots of time and money keeping them in good fettle.There is a strong following for them.
Hope this helps
Regards
Tel


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

carlmt said:


> Thanks for this Peter - Ok if I give Gill a call on Tuesday? This is one area that we could see being a minefield!!!!
> 
> Regarding the weekly cost - Abacus are quoting £975 / week for April on a Sundance 5 berth....dont know how old it is though.... A colleague at work was looking into hiring one for a couple of weeks to take his family to Devon but considered it was too costly.....
> cheers
> Carl


Hi Carl,

No problem, as regards hire rates we charge Sundance 630L six berth £795 and a new Voyager 5 berth the same. 4 berths are £695 and two berths £595 October to April is low season for us.

Peter


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

tel999 said:


> Hi
> We have just purchased a retro camper van busuness in the south west.
> A company called Compucar will give insurance to drivers per day. Approx cost £20 per day.
> Go VERY carefull if you are looking at the VW market.Good RHD rust free examples are very hard to find, and when you do you will pay £10,000 to £15,000. Be prepared to spend lots of time and money keeping them in good fettle.There is a strong following for them.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up Tel & good luck with the new business........
Because there are a few established VW hire specialists, we want to go in a different direction and NOT use VW's..........however as Peter says: rust is still an issue!!!!


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Well - went to have a look at the Autohome today..............

As expected, it will need work. However, it is complete, has all its original fittings (other than the canvas stretcher bunk) and the engine runs very smoothly.

The cab will need work but I have seen worse.

Offer made to the owner - just awaiting his response......personally I think he is expecting too much - we shall see.

Carl


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## jiffyman (May 11, 2005)

I really hope all goes well for you, and good luck with it


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## callum (Mar 14, 2009)

yeah, i was originally intending on renting a camper for a few weeks for a trip to europe. however, as you say, was scared off by price! so thought i would buy an old one instead. so if it was cheap i think it would be a good idea!!

can i ask though, have you thought about your liability if something went wrong? like would you be held responsible if something bad happened, such as someone electrocuted (in the extreme!!) or the vanbroke down.. Would you have to give them a refund for example or be held responsible for injury...


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Sorry to be the pessy mist once again. I cannot see how this can possibly work. Classic motorhomes simply look like old motorhomes with terrible fuel economy, terrible noise and although VW are not in the frame horrendously expensive to repair and upkeep and any damage could well be in excess of what the van is worth.

We then go on to road side assistance and too old they will not cover you and if they know you are turning it into an art form they may well stay clear getting a hundred claims in a month.

Finally, this really is not the time to go into business. The only thing you may be able to capitalise on is a drop on prices to buy m\homes but if the business went wrong it would be difficult to find buyers.

Just because I said all this certainly does not mean I am right but at least please, consider the possibilities as money once gone has a habit of not coming back.


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Hey Pusser - I hear what you are saying.... Thanks for the words of caution.....

On the economy front, the classics are not much different to those of today - my old Bedford used to return around 22 to the gallon, my current Merc 316 is giving me 25 - 27 (on diesel costing 10p/litre more than unleaded!!!!). Granted, the old 'uns are not deisgned to run on unleaded and work will need to be done to overcome this.... Lets face it - the engines will need complete overhauls anyway :roll: .

We realise that this _could_ be a risky venture, that is why we would only start with one unit and 'test the water'. We know that, apart from getting the vehicle sorted, we would need to do a hell of a lot of marketing / promoting to get the idea across that what we are proposing is a credible alternative..... Much, much thinking to be done on this yet!!!!
We certainly dont expect that current MH owners would be clients, however we are sure that there are young families / couples out there who would love to try the 'nomadic' life.......if they could just afford it.

At the end of the day, if it doesnt work out with the first van, what have we got? A restored, nearly 40 year old piece of Motor Caravan heritage to either enjoy ourselves or sell on to another enthusiast.....

Carl and Flo


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Well certainly a good idea to do just one and as you say, if things don;'t go to plan having one motorhome left would be useful.

I do wish you well but I wonder to myself if you can do this restore thing and do stuff to engines then why not consider a service centre for motorhomes. If you can operate with honesty, integrity and professionalism then you are already ahead of most of the competition.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

androidGB said:


> I would think the take up would be quite small.
> 
> I'll obviously offend anyone with a classic van, but I think you'd be hard pushed to find many people who would prefer one to a modern van with all mod cons.
> 
> ...


I think Andrew has made the most salient point of the lot here Carl.

I don't know how best you could do it, but I think it would be very wise to try and find out _*realistically *_how many potential customers there are.

It's the old, old story I fear.

Providing the product is not too difficult. The real problems come when you try to sell it, consistently and on a regular basis . . . which you would have to do if you want to make a modest living out of it.

I do wonder if Pusser has also had a flash of genius!! 8O :wink:

If you are capable of restoration _(and you must be to even consider such a venture)_ what about running both a hiring and repair/restoration business from the same premises.

Now that *could *work, and each side of the business would support the other. You may be onto a winner there!  

Just to end on a pessimistic note (sorry  ) winter time may be a significant problem, as you mention earlier!. Times could be hard for you "out of season" so that has to be factored into the equation too.

All the very best though, and if you do go ahead I really hope it works out for you.   It will be interesting, if nothing else!! :wink: :wink:

Dave


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Dear All,

Many thanks for ALL your comments / advice / tips / warnings  . What a great community we have here 8) .

Many, Many things to look at / sort out yet - and I do like the idea of the restoration / servicing to go alongside the hire...... Lets face it, that is what would be happening to the hire fleet anyway.......and it would help tide over the winter season by working on customers vans when they would normally be in storage.

Who knows if it would work......but we are willing to give it a try....and initiallly I wouldnt be giving up the day-job (Architect) so we would still have a little income (little being the key word here in these present times!!!).

Will keep you posted.....
many thanks all,
Carl & Flo


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## whitebay (May 8, 2009)

Hi Carl / Flo 
Have been thinking of this myself for a while now. I'm looking at VWs. Think the market is there, just look at availability calendars if they show them. Don't think you would make a great living out of it but should be a good return on investment. I would go for VW personally (have one of our own) mainly because old vehichles do rust but all parts available for VW and good availability of specialists. Mechanically the engines, etc are available and not too expensive. Would recommend you look at total costings over a few years. Restoring a Bedford CA could be very expensive, buying a good VW might be cheaper overall. Look forward to how you get on, best of luck. 

Ian


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi Carl,

Just wondered if you had done some market research to see if in fact there is unmet demand out there to hire classic motorhomes? I suspect that the potential customers are just looking for cheaper hire rates and not for the "classic" experience of motorhoming as it was 20 years ago. In that case you might as well buy a few 2 or 3 year old modern MHs at auction and fix them up - that way you will be able to undercut the established hire companies and have a solid business model.

There is a demand for hiring classic VW campervans, because they are currently very trendy and have been featured in the Sunday Times holiday section, for example. The Jamie Oliver TV programme no doubt helped immensely and I believe he re-sold his Splitty for over £40K at auction.

Having said that, I wonder how the classic VW hire companies ever make any money out of it because (a) good vans are ridiculously expensive to buy due to the trendy factor and (b) the oily bits seem to be very unreliable compared with modern machinery. You only have to read the epic tours featured in mags such as Camper & Bus to see that what for us would be an uneventful 2000 mile tour in a MH in Europe involves the classic VW Splitty or Bay campervan in 4 or 5 major breakdowns that for most people would ruin their holidays. Remember these features are written by the VW scene enthusiasts who rebuilt the things, maintain them regardless of cost, and travel with a full toolkit and lots of spares. 

SD


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## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

SpeedyDux said:


> Hi Carl,
> 
> Just wondered if you had done some market research to see if in fact there is unmet demand out there to hire classic motorhomes? I suspect that the potential customers are just looking for cheaper hire rates and not for the "classic" experience of motorhoming as it was 20 years ago. In that case you might as well buy a few 2 or 3 year old modern MHs at auction and fix them up - that way you will be able to undercut the established hire companies and have a solid business model.
> 
> ...


Motorhome hire is a very expensive business costs wise if it is done correctly - hence buying used MH's and hiring out cheap is quite a difficult thing to do. You can do it cheaper - but not cheap! It just isn't viable to send out vans for a few hundred a hit. You will find that most hire companies do subsidise the hire with other things - some are dealers, others hire vans and cars as well.

You of course then get the individuals who hire out vans at very cheap rates - but again, it is not a proffesional outfit. Some do get proper hire insurance, some don't - others charge extra for everything some do it on the dodge, it is a bit of a gamble for what you get! I have even seen one, with an awful van that says you have to supply your own breakdown cover, public liability etc! lol!

As for VW's - there are the brazilian new builds which many hire out, there are quite a few companies that do this - some hire the originals. Yes they are nostalgic and are sought after especially for the young on new licences as they can drive them! The bad side is reliability, as they are old! You need good breakdown cover and a few spare! I have met many an angry person whom has spent good money on a holiday and never got there - but again that is the gamble you take with a classic vehicle! The good sie of course, against other classic campers is, you can get all the parts for a VW - which is actually a strength! And to be honest, probably faster than a modern motorhome!

It is swings and roundabouts - i hope they do well out of it, and as long as they cover every single angle they will be fine


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