# Brrrrrrrrrrrr!



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hello,

Well, the days of summer are but a distant memory and a huge dollop of photos taking up space on your hard disk. And it's starting to get a little colder.

Our Pollensa has a Carver gas heater thingee, not blown air, which seems to work - it's never been used before in its 6 years. However, I think I'd rather use some electric heating if we're on hookup. The previous owners said they used a "heat cube" or something. So what I think I'm looking for is a small, stable electric heater, probably only 1kW (it's a small van), with a thermostat and a fan. I'd like to be able to lean out of bed, flick it on, and have an extra half hour's doze while it gently heats the van up.

Any recommendations? There's about a billion in Argos, all of which look a bit powerful to me. Same with some other online sources. I'm all confused. :? 

Gerald


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gerald

I used a small fan heater for a while (till it stopped working) we now just use a fan heater that can switch from .5 to 1kw. 

On hook up its more convenient and can be used for longer periods, don't like the gas heater much.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Gerald,
The trouble with all of the fan heaters & variants is the noise, and the fact that you can't leave it on in the background. We have an oil filled radiator which we use when on site with hook up, and also set low as a frost precaution when at home in the worst of the winter.
Maplins had one cheap last month, Makro leaflet has just dropped through my door with a deLonghi one at £19.99 plus vat.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, I'm with Mike. When on hookup use a thermostatically controlled oil filled radiator that goes down to frost temperatures, compact, 1kW. Leave it on all the while you're on hookup, turning it down a bit overnight.

Leave it in the van connected to the mains over the coldest months, and it keeps frozen pipes etc at bay. No need for lengthy procedures to put the van in hibernation mode.

There is no way, by contrast, I'd leave a thermostatically controlled cheap fan heater to its own devices for weeks on end.

Dave


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## Minerva (May 22, 2006)

Fan heaters also have a nasty habit of setting alarms off by moving the air in the MH, unless you have the internal sensors isolated, OK while you are in the van at night but no good for frost protection.

Bill


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Agreed Oil filled if to be left alone.

I take a small 400/800W halogen for rapid warming though.

Regards Frank


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

Agree.....Oil filled are safest and most efficient background heaters..but.......we only have a small van. My pal has one in a small van and you cant move in there.  

I wouldn't leave the fan heater on, but its as described ie what was requested. in the morning lean over and switch on for half hour to warm the van...perfect.

Oh by the way.....we dont have an alarm either... :?


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks, folks. Oil-filled sounds good to me, too. Hadn't thought about it, TBH. 

Gerald


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## Minerva (May 22, 2006)

Where do you live Badger

Bill


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

not sayin' in case you nick my van...... :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2006)

We bought one of those £24.99 oil filled radiators from Maplins when they were mentioned on here a couple of weeks ago.

We've just had a couple of days in Southport where we used it for the first time in the van and found it pretty effective.

Didn't leave it on overnight because we didn't need to but expect we will when the weather is colder.

I also intend to leave it on the low setting during cold winter weather when the van is parked up on the drive at home, just to keep it frost free.

Graham


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Heating*

Hi

The Swift has it's own blown air system. I carry however a 1000 watt convector heater - silent in operation and not heavy.

I used this in Italy in the Compass in January vice the gas only motorhome heater. It was warm enough even at that time of year.

As discussed with Geo and Pam at the first aid meet, I sleep with the heating on most of the time.

An oil filled though could have another use too. Heat it up then turn it off. Throw a damp towel on it etc to dry. Can't do that with the convector!

Rapide561


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> Yes, I'm with Mike. When on hookup use a thermostatically controlled oil filled radiator that goes down to frost temperatures, compact, 1kW. Leave it on all the while you're on hookup, turning it down a bit overnight.
> 
> Leave it in the van connected to the mains over the coldest months, and it keeps frozen pipes etc at bay. No need for lengthy procedures to put the van in hibernation mode.
> 
> ...


Snap... we have a 800 watt oil filled radiator and its great for taking the edge off... be even better in your little mh.

This one in Argos is similar, but a 700watt

LINK


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## Minerva (May 22, 2006)

Hi Badger

I would'nt do a thing like that - Honest :wink: 

Bill


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Polly calling Polly! The way we do it is simple and quiet. Our fan heater can be 2kw or 1kw. We only use 1kw when on hook-up. Its thermostat is useless and ranges from stifling hot (Ooh, we'd better turn it down) to perishing cold (Ooh, we'd better turn it up). 
Each winter, for about £20, Argos sells a Masterplug plug-in thermostat. We plug the fan heater into the Masterplug and set the HEATER thermostat to maximum to prevent it interferring. We set the PLUG-IN thermostat to say 20 degrees for daytime or say 10 degrees for a winter's night. 
The range reads to 0.1 degree, so at 9.9 degrees the fan heater comes on for a short time to lift the temperature that 0.1 degree. It's very quiet so we sleep like logs in blissful comfort.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hey hey, Norman! Polly responding ('scuse us, everyone  )

That's a different idea. :idea: 

Mind you, I thought you'd converted your dodgy gas heater to blown air? :wink: 

Gerald


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

NormanBarmby said:


> Polly calling Polly! The way we do it is simple and quiet. Our fan heater can be 2kw or 1kw. We only use 1kw when on hook-up. Its thermostat is useless and ranges from stifling hot (Ooh, we'd better turn it down) to perishing cold (Ooh, we'd better turn it up).
> Each winter, for about £20, Argos sells a Masterplug plug-in thermostat. We plug the fan heater into the Masterplug and set the HEATER thermostat to maximum to prevent it interferring. We set the PLUG-IN thermostat to say 20 degrees for daytime or say 10 degrees for a winter's night.
> The range reads to 0.1 degree, so at 9.9 degrees the fan heater comes on for a short time to lift the temperature that 0.1 degree. It's very quiet so we sleep like logs in blissful comfort.


Hi folks, your just down the road from me... sorry to highjack the thread!


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Snelly said:


> Hi folks, your just down the road from me... sorry to highjack the thread!


 :evil: :evil: I should think so too! You wouldn't catch me doing anything like that! :?

We met Norman and Sandra in Bernay in France. Both Pollensas, both with a gas leak. Norman got his spanners out and fixed mine for me. Nice man.

Gerald


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Hi Gerald and Annie too. (Excuse us Pollies)
Yes, we had blown air fitted and have both gas and electric heat available. But the 12v blown air fan would be on all night and the thermostat is of the stifling/freezing type. Since we bought our plug-in, our son and four caravaning families have bought the same. 
During the frosty months, we set our thermostat to 5 degrees as we use the van right through the year and don't like draining off all the fluids.

Stay well
Norman


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks, Norman. Hope you're both fine too. We must meet up again sometime.

Gerald


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

NormanBarmby,
I looked in the Argos catalogue the other day but they don't stock them anymore. Anyone know where I could get one of these plug in thermostats?
bob


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

So, let me get this right. If I put a small oil-filled radiator in the 'van over winter. Set it to the frost setting I don't have to drain the water tanks and water heater every time it's not being used? 

:idea1: :signcool:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I think it depends on where your fresh water tank is. Is it like ours, under a seat? Certainly, your pipes and water heater should be OK.

Gerald


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Ours are underneath outside, so I expect that means I'll have to drain them, whichis no problem. Its the water heater I worry about, thats inside in the bottom of the wardrobe as is also the waterpump. This will be the first winter that I have had to be aware of freezing as our last was a prehistoric caravan of 1985 vintage with none of these 'ere modern fandangled gizmo's. We do have a gas/ electric heater tho'. :winkedsplat:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Spacerunner said:


> We do have a gas/ electric heater tho'. :winkedsplat:


Oooo 

I'll have to check on ours, but I think if the inside is not freezing, then with some bubble wrap around the vent of the heater, we should be all right.

The grey water waste tank is deffo outside on ours, and WILL freeze up.  Maybe I can build a cosy little fur-lined shelter for it :?:

Gerald


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I can remember years ago having a parafin fuelled sump heater under the car to keep the engine oil warm, supposed to have made it easier to start. I wonder if they are still available.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Spacerunner said:


> parafin fuelled sump heater .... I wonder if they are still available.


Look

>>> HERE <<<

or

>>> HERE <<<

Remind me not to park anywhere near you at Binton :wink: :lol:

Gerald


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

'Tis only a sump heater not Mount Etna!!!

:kamahlitude2:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Spacerunner said:


> I can remember years ago having a parafin fuelled sump heater under the car to keep the engine oil warm, supposed to have made it easier to start. I wonder if they are still available.


Try >>Here<< 

14 days unattended

Frank


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Spacerunner

If your heater is a Truma it will have a dump valve for dropping all the water


stew


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2006)

Our cold water tank and water heater are within the van though I think the grey tank is under floor.

To guard against freezing pipes I'll be draining everything down AND using the oil filled radiator on the frost free setting - belt & braces maybe but it will be our first winter with the van.

Incidentally, there's an article on preparing the water system for winter in the latest (November 2006) issue of Motor Caravan Magazine with some good tips.

Graham


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Well done Gerald and friends! A good debate here about keeping warm on winter nights. Totally relevant at this time. I suggested a fan heater operating through a plug-in thermostat, which is far more precise than that which is built-in to the heater.

I've checked the new Argos catalogue and can't find the Masterplug plug-in thermostat that I bought last year. I've checked the Masterplug website and found it a waste of space.

So I visited my local Electrical Wholesale Services. The first catalogue showed me a Timeguard product. I have checkout their website at Timeguard.com - searched for ET05 - up popped the said item. The local EWS will sell them at £22.70 inc. of VAT.

Further to the concerns about frost - our m'home is in use all year and so the thermostat brings in the fan-heater at 4.9 degrees. When the temperature outside threatens to drop below zero degrees for a length of time, I also drop off all fluids. 

Both my tanks are underslung and I have thought of boxing them in with some lightweight materials. Does anyone want to develop that thread?

Stay warm
Norman


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2006)

NormanBarmby said:


> Both my tanks are underslung and I have thought of boxing them in with some lightweight materials. Does anyone want to develop that thread?


I had a look under the van half an hour ago and confirmed that our grey waste tank is beneath the floor.

I suppose it would be possible to cut slabs of expanded polystyrene or other foam to form a box round the outside of the tank. The sides and ends could possibly be held in place by some sort of belt but I don't know how the bottom could be fixed.

Another possibility might be to enclose the tank in bubble wrap held in place by a belt - or bungee straps?

Don't know how robust either might be - and I'm sure there will be somebody on here who has a better idea.

Graham


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hia again, Norman. Blimey - you've become a regular poster on here now. I hope it's not my bad influence  

Thanks for the info about the plug-in 'stat. It might become useful. Still haven't decided which way we're going to go :? And a good thought about the drainging down. I think, even with an anti-frost heater, if we have a deep freeze, I'd drain everything down. I tend to leave the fresh water tank empty until just before we go away, and I empty the grey water tank as soon as we get back. It's just the heater I'd have to worry about, but it shouldn't be too bad.

About the tanks - how about sticking insulation directly to the tanks? You can get some stuff they use in wall cavities when they're doing new builds - it comes in big, hard, shiny sheets, about 1-2 inches thick? That might work.

Gerald


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Gerald, Artona mentions the Truma water heater having a dump valve. If your Polly is the same as ours that is the case. The water heater is under the front dinette seat. In the side of the enclosure is a hole through which a finger can just lift the valve. Out drops the water!

Norman

If all else fails, read the manual!


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## tincan (Jul 31, 2006)

What ever happened to turning over for a cuddle instead of turning on one of those heater things, wont do much for tank protection but better use of energy


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> Both my tanks are underslung and I have thought of boxing them in with some lightweight materials. Does anyone want to develop that thread?


Hi Guys;

Re underslung tanks, its ok to insulate a tank to protect it from freezing but be aware that in really cold conditions it will still eventually freeze and will then take twice as long to thaw as well unless some form of heat is introduced.

For underslung waste tanks, its better to open the tap and let the water run through to a bucket outside then empty that regularly.

For underslung fresh tanks you would need to insulate the tank and also think about installing a 12v heating element (available from cak tanks) to keep the contents above freezing. Even this is not failsafe as any exterior pipe runs are also liable to freeze and even if lagged, they will also freeze eventually. AFAIK there is no satisfacory way to heat pipe runs although someone did once mention heat trace tape.

If you intend to use your van extensively in really cold conditions then really the most practical option would be to install an internal fresh water tank, usually under the seats and make sure all pipes runs inside the van.

If, after spouting all that off however, you're talking about the odd night out when its a bit frosty then you'll probably get away with a bit of lagging round the pipes and tank :lol: .

pete


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Norman again! Still on the Brrrrr... theme but slight change of direction. Last October, we bought an original silver screen from Cleckheaton, cost £80. This is an exterior screen. In the last year, we have used it numerous times, either to keep us cool in the summer sun, or to keep us warmer in the winter cool. We have been constantly amazed at how successful it has been. It adds the cab area to the rest of the van, no need for those dratted curtains. No condensation at all in the morning.

Stay warm
Norman


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Some people are never off this blooming forum, are they? :roll: :wink:

I bought some (one?) at the Sheptom Mallet show, Norman. I'm sure it made a difference to our van last weekend. Very easy and quick to put on too.

And we've bought some cosy Blacks sleeping bags, which are all soft and snuggly and warm. Very nice!

And I used both the blackout screens and the curtains on the side windows, which must have helped too.

Still .... a bit more 'constructed' warmth might not go amiss as we descend into late Autumn / Winter.

BTW, there's some interesting sums and stuff from Boff in the "underfloor heating" thread.

And finally ... apologies to the Thread Subject Police, as I've just realised the subject for this thread contravenes rule 38a. I'll try to remember in future 

Gerald


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Sump type heater*

Years ago, when I had to be on call from home 24/7, and quick responses needed (was Fire Brigade Officer) and car had to stand outside, I tried using a parrafin sump heater, sometimes sold to warm greenhouses as well, in the footwell of the passenger seat of the car.
I can honestly say, it worked wonders. Even when all the other cars in the street had heavy frost on them at 3 am, or therebouts, mine was always clear of frost, nice and warm and ready to go. No delayed call outs from me !


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

There you are Gerald...approved by the Fire Brigade...safe as houses!!


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## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

tincan said:


> What ever happened to turning over for a cuddle instead of turning on one of those heater things, wont do much for tank protection but better use of energy


Tried that once but ended up needing a bigger van to carry around the resulting offspring.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

emgee said:


> Tried that once but ended up needing a bigger van to carry around the resulting offspring.


 :lol: Just the once? 

Welcome to the forum.

Gerald


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

We have 2 oil filled radiators for the depths of winter. One small one under the bed in the garage to keep the bed dry and a larger one which we site at the front of the van to keep us warm - and dry towels on. Both were bought from Tesco's - who incidently are getting them in again later this month. If getting from Tesco's - keep the receipt, we had one heater stop working but they did refund us straight away - this was 6 months after purchase and the heater had been used an awful lot. They couldn't replace it as they no longer had them in stock.

Our fresh water tank and water heater are inboard - no freezing issues there but our waste water tanks are underslung. Never had one freeze yet and we have overwintered twice in the van. I think it may be because it never really gets cold enough to freeze under the van whilst inside the van is warm. Even on snowy icy nasty mid winter viciously cold days, the underneath of the van doesn't freeze, just remains as a perfect oblong of green - slightly soggy grass! 

Then again, there are probably enough warm draughts escaping from the van to heat half the field - I don't think its the most sealed van on site!! he he he :lol:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"our waste water tanks are underslung. Never had one freeze yet and we have overwintered twice in the van."

Leigh,

That is amazing. Not that it contradicts my experience, as so far I've considered it prudent to keep the waste tank open and running into a bucket. That has certainly been full of ice on the occasions it has been at least 8 below.

The only question is, shall I risk just using the waste tank as normal in such temperatures? Be assured that if I do, and it freezes, I shall seek you out, just to let you know, of course 

Dave


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## Frantone (Sep 6, 2006)

*Brrrrrr*

What are the chances of the loo liquids freezing? Do the pink and green additives contain antifreeze? or is the fact that they are inboard sufficiient?

TonyP


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> The only question is, shall I risk just using the waste tank as normal in such temperatures? Be assured that if I do, and it freezes, I shall seek you out, just to let you know, of course
> 
> Dave


I look forward to it Dave! And when I have been hunted down, I will then demonstrate our frost/ice free version just to really rub it in. He he he.

Seriously though, I think it helps having dump valves on the waste tanks though. There is no small pipe to freeze, just big holes with slides over them.

Mind you, its a bloody nightmare emptying the tanks in the winter, on knees in the snow trying to see under the van to get bucket in right place.

Tanks don't freeze but I do! :roll:


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## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

gerannpasa said:


> emgee said:
> 
> 
> > Tried that once but ended up needing a bigger van to carry around the resulting offspring.
> ...


Wanders in to bedroom to check. Yep only one offspring.


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

With regards to heating, this thread made me realise it was colder outside than I thought.

So off I trundled to TLC in Swindon and bought an oil filled radiator, which is far too big! So going back this week to change to two of these units:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HEFH5W.html

Seem to fit the bill with one either side of the Winnie.

With regards to power supply I have the 240 to 110 convertor but will as mentioned previously put an RCD twin socket in the van wired direct off the 240V input:

Bought this RCD whilst at TLC:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM4901.html

Will let you know how good the heaters are later in the week.

Regards

Chris


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