# An endless list of extras



## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

I am currently choosing items to add to a new van but am getting really over faced. There are things i really want, like the chassis upgrade, but every time i go through the list of possible add ons i want them all. Of course this is not possible because of cost, weight etc.

So, my learned friends, what would you add and why? 

Also, would you have things like sat dishes added by the manufacturer or by an independent?


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

ThePrisoner said:


> I am currently choosing items to add to a new van but am getting really over faced. There are things i really want, like the chassis upgrade, but every time i go through the list of possible add ons i want them all. Of course this is not possible because of cost, weight etc.
> 
> So, my learned friends, what would you add and why?
> 
> Also, would you have things like sat dishes added by the manufacturer or by an independent?


The two main things I would add are solar panels and a saterlte dish.
Obviously solar so you can stay on aires and wild camp.And I would go 
for a dish rather than a dome so you can go further south into France.

I wouldnt use the manufacturer,I would use an indenpendant so you get a specaillist in
there particular field,and so you get the most upto date equipment and not something
thats been in stock too long.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

We added an awning, a 100watt solar panel, a spare wheel and tyre, cab carpet and two 11kg gasit cylinders. From silver screens we bought an external sun/insulatation screen, which I regard as invaluable for both summer in France and autumn condensation in Ireland and Winter fridge vents.

Be cautious. Our van was supposedly 3150 kg with 350kg payload, and of course this only allows for 20 litres of water which is ludicrous.

We stayed overnight at the dealers and added an unknown amount of water and gas. On the way home we weighed 3470kg and if I load for 8 weeks in France with full water tank we could have been 3750 kg. I reckon I shall have to upgrade to the 3850 kg which is a paper exercise. Last weigh was 3590 kg.

I was surprised to discover that there was no tv Ariel fitted as standard, not an issue for us as we try to get away from the world when away, although we do watch DVDs. 

I had a strikeback alarm fitted by the sole concession in Ireland, leisure technical solution who are a first class outfit. High quality work at sensible prices. I asked Simon about fitting an Ariel. His reply was. It can be done, but will be very time consuming since location of Ariel mast would have to be right at the rear of our van in a wardrobe to allow for lowering. The tv bracket and wiring is by the door near the front. Fishing the wires was going to be a real hassle, although there was thought to be some form of wiring loom available in the van but he could not locate it nor could the supplying dealer indicate where it was.

One year on there is nothing else in the way of extras that appeal, though we are simple folk, easy to please.

Davy


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Ditto jo662. plus spare wheel, external BBQ point and LPG tank.Heated windscreen.Central heating with connection to engine. Electrically controlled grey/black and clean water outlets. lastly I would want a Beaney slide out drawer.

cabby


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

*Biggest Solar panel you can fit/afford, extra leisure battery, wine cellar, biggest gas bottles or tank you can fit, awning, decent corkscrew, spare wheel, wing mirror protectors, toll tag for France, dash camera to record all those 'hairy' moments and one of these at the back …....*


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

I think i have most of what everyone's said on my list so far and i already own some other items such as the gaslow system which is being transferred from my current van. Have a dashcam but very interested in a rear view one too. 

Heated windscreen.....Had not even considered but sounds an excellent idea.

I may give roadpro and vanbitz a call too for fitting the sat, solar etc. I just thought it may be a better fit and finish if they were done at build time. 

Corner steadies was another item that crossed my mind. I do have quite a handsome 1000kg payload to use. >


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

KeithChesterfield said:


> *Biggest Solar panel you can fit/afford, extra leisure battery, wine cellar, biggest gas bottles or tank you can fit, awning, decent corkscrew, spare wheel, wing mirror protectors, toll tag for France, dash camera to record all those 'hairy' moments and one of these at the back …....*


I can see the wife's face now. Be afraid, be very afraid. :grin2:

I think she'd let me have the corkscrew:wink2:


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

I forgot to put 2x Gaslow 11kg refillable bottles.The best thing iv had fitted by far!:laugh:


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

If you like wilding then go for a built in genny. Best thing we did. Just press the button inside and she fires up. Instant leccy. We do most of our trips in winter in the mountains .
Our van was built to order. But from memory, stuff like solar and satellite were added afterwards at the dealership. 
We had 1200kg payload to play with so just added everything


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Don't know what chassis you are considering, but the first owner of our van based on a sprinter chose to have a different lock on the rear wheels as an extra. Doesn't mean we are an off roader but a real difference no worries in choosing pitches


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

My two pennorth for how WE use a van.

Solar min 100w
MPPT solar controller
At least 3 110ah LBs
Possible extra fresh tank if much below 100litres
Refillable gas either underslung or in locker
Tow bar for rear valance protection on Ferries etc no need to fit a ball
Good pair of pure sign wave inverters, a small 140w one for TV and charging laptop tc and a larger one 1500-2000w for other possibilities, such as Microwave etc
12v or 230v slow cooker, so a meal can be ready once to you get wherever.

I'd never fit a wind out awning, had one on all vans we've had, rolled out 3-4 times so waste of money and payload, ditto AC or Sat Dish, all of which also waste fuel due to weight and wind drag.
No need for a cycle rack or rear ladder.


Forgot to add:-

Cruise control would be nice weighs nowt either, but a boon on Motorways if used correctly.
Twin lens reversing camera with a 7" screen if no rear window.
Bracket or fixture for a 7-8" tablet for a decent Sat Nav app.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

If not standard then parabolic mirrors - essential safety item in my opinion.

Also my vote for re-fillable gas. And the towbar for rear protection, but it is a weight penalty.

Geoff


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

Mppt controller, check
Inverter, check
Extra battery,check 
Slow cooker, check (good idea). We already have a halogen so don't need to have a full oven added. Have never used them on the last three vans we have had.

Awning we need. Wife has a problem sitting in sunshine ☀ 

Air con, we were considering but may just have fantastic vent put over beds.


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> If not standard then parabolic mirrors - essential safety item in my opinion.
> 
> Also my vote for re-fillable gas. And the towbar for rear protection, but it is a weight penalty.
> 
> Geoff


Those mirrors come as standard so that's a bonus.

Tow bar, check.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

I dont know what vehicle base your new van is on but if its a Sprinter and I were ordering now I would go for the 4x4. They didnt make them when we orderered ours so we have a 519. 
If you are looking at aircon, maybe consider a Bycool ? We have that rather than full aircon as it eats less batteries and works perfectly well for our needs. 
Choices, choices...


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

salomon said:


> I dont know what vehicle base your new van is on but if its a Sprinter and I were ordering now I would go for the 4x4. They didnt make them when we orderered ours so we have a 519.
> If you are looking at aircon, maybe consider a Bycool ? We have that rather than full aircon as it eats less batteries and works perfectly well for our needs.
> Choices, choices...


It comes on the fiat ducato 2.3 multijet and i am going for the 150 bhp just for that bit more power. Will look at the bycool air con. 👍


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

ThePrisoner said:


> Mppt controller, check
> Inverter, check
> Extra battery,check
> Slow cooker, check (good idea). We already have a halogen so don't need to have a full oven added. Have never used them on the last three vans we have had.
> ...


Liz loves the sunshine, but it's not good for her so we sit on the other side of the van if it too hot.

The problem with AC is it actually means less light (unless you have new/extra hole in the roof) as it takes a vet away, we've had two vans with AC and it's been the kitchen vent both times which was lost and that means a dark kitchen or put the lights on.

Also I didn't mention it before, but others have, most stuff can be fitted DIY or use a specialist, even an awning is a simple fit, 3-4 brackets then pop the awning on, I'm amazed the hard shoulder isn't full of them, one quite short self tapper per bracket holding them on :roll:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I can´t see that anyone has mentioned the *cold *water tank heater for winter trips.
We were away for 1 night this week and the temperature suddenly dropped to minus -2°C 
we had no water in the onboard tank so no worries.

Howsomever :laugh: If you do have the heater fitted how does it protect the draining pipe, is the coil wound around the drain pipe as well ?
Answers in simple language please :smile2: yes, yes, I´m only a simple old gal :smile2:


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

JanHank said:


> I can´t see that anyone has mentioned the water tank heater for winter trips.
> We were away for 1 night this week and the temperature suddenly dropped to minus -2°C
> we had no water in the onboard tank so no worries.
> 
> ...


Hi Jan
The tanks are onboard so i don't think we need this as they are in a heated floor.

As for the second part of your post.......i'm totally clueless 😀


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

JanHank said:


> If you do have the heater fitted how does it protect the draining pipe, is the coil wound around the drain pipe as well ?
> Answers in simple language please :smile2: yes, yes, I´m only a simple old gal :smile2:


Good question, but not sure many will have a heated waste tank Jan, I do know that quite often when we're following other MoHos they do seem to be a bit incontinent.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> I can´t see that anyone has mentioned the *cold *water tank heater for winter trips.
> We were away for 1 night this week and the temperature suddenly dropped to minus -2°C
> we had no water in the onboard tank so no worries.
> 
> ...


Jan

I assume you are talking about the dirty-water draining pipe (one would not be draining fresh water while resident). The general advice on here in frost conditions is to leave the drain cock open and place a bucket under the drain. The water in the dirty tank can expand and the drain valve is protected because water, if freezing inside it, can expand into the open pipe - thus no damage.

Geoff


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Jan
> 
> I assume you are talking about the dirty-water draining pipe (one would not be draining fresh water while resident). The general advice on here in frost conditions is to leave the drain cock open and place a bucket under the drain. The water in the dirty tank can expand and the drain valve is protected because water, if freezing inside it, can expand into the open pipe - thus no damage.
> 
> Geoff


No Geoff, I´m talking about the _so called_ fresh water tank, 
if the tank is full there must be water in the drain pipe because the tap is right at the end of the pipe not immediately at the tank.
If the temperature is below freezing the water thats in the pipe is likely to freeze if it isn´t protected the same as the tank.
Maybe I should open another thread and put this under its own heading.
Jan


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jan 

I did not know some fresh water tanks have drain pipes and taps.

We just have a drain at the bottom of the tank and a domestic sink-type plug to pull out and gravity does the rest - simples:smile2:

Geoff


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

What extras to add is an individual choice. Only you know how you use your van and for what purposses. What I or another member may feel essential you or someone else may have no need for at all (sat TV is a prime example).

For us, as fulltimers that like to wildcamp or use the aires system in Europe, our essentials are solar panels and extra leisure batteries. Also an underslung LPG tank was a must fit (and paid for itself in just over a year). To keep in touch with world events, family and freinds we have sat TV, low power 12V TV, 4G mi-fi and long range wi-fi. For security a good alarm (essential for insurance and although it won't always stop a thief it will hopefully send them to an easier target) and good safe were also added. Fridge fans are a great help in hot weather.

Several other must haves and great to haves for us, already mentioned by others (spare wheel, awning, cruise control, cab air-con, TV aerial, water tank heaters, tracker, double rear camera), came with the van, as standard fit, from new.

I also use a 'coke can' inverter for charging my laptop (sadly not been able to find a good enough 12V adapter for it) and USB powered battery chargers for other battery powered devices (camera, etc). No need for a bigger inverter as we have adapted our lives to not need higher powered mains devices. 

But if you only use your van for holidays, or are always on sites with EHU, then your priorities may very possibly be different to ours. As I said before, only you know what you need.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

JanHank said:


> No Geoff, I´m talking about the _so called_ fresh water tank,
> if the tank is full there must be water in the drain pipe because the tap is right at the end of the pipe not immediately at the tank.
> If the temperature is below freezing the water thats in the pipe is likely to freeze if it isn´t protected the same as the tank.
> Maybe I should open another thread and put this under its own heading.
> Jan


Its funny Jan. We have a fully winterised van. And that means what it says. Eveything is heated / kept warm / wont freeze. Yet various people always insist that we must open taps , place buckets etc cos no one is fully insulated ( not you, Geoff !). Others insist that we could not possibly have gas filled glass double glazing..

Most people use their vans in summer. Ours was built for winter. So what I consider normal, apparently isnt. I only discovered recently that Truma heating only works on gas. I was astonished.

Its only us winter idiots who hanker after 4x4 sprinters. Well. Us and BarryD when he is stuck in a field...


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

salomon said:


> Its funny Jan. We have a fully winterised van. And that means what it says. Eveything is heated / kept warm / wont freeze. Yet various people always insist that we must open taps , place buckets etc cos no one is fully insulated ( not you, Geoff !). Others insist that we could not possibly have gas filled glass double glazing..
> 
> Most people use their vans in summer. Ours was built for winter. So what I consider normal, apparently isnt. I only discovered recently that Truma heating only works on gas. I was astonished.
> 
> Its only us winter idiots who hanker after 4x4 sprinters. Well. Us and BarryD when he is stuck in a field...


Sarah

Surely, even though I know you have EHU, you do not run the heating when the MH is parked in winter, do you? Could cost you a case of Veuve Cliquot:surprise:

Some Truma heaters have an optional electric heating 'collar', but only powered on 230v, but apologises if I told you that before:wink2:

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

gaslow

Solar panels

Air con 

Gas generator 

Inverter 

Air suspension

Then upgrade the weight !!!

Add ins

Double rear camera 

Road hawk dash cam 

I go sat nav

Lots of wine, no that removable, forget that

Sandra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

aldra said:


> gaslow
> 
> Solar panels
> 
> ...


Give us the money!:grin2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well I can't take it with me 

So what the hell

I need aircon, I can't do heat

The generator I didn't need, it's emergancy

Gaslow I need I'd fret without it

The air suspension, brilliant

The rearcamara to watch the bike onthe back

The inverter for charging when wild camping 

The wine essential , forget that it's removable, generally I remove it rapidly!!

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

PS Solar panels 

Essential for Aires and wild camping 

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

salomon said:


> Its funny Jan. We have a fully winterised van. And that means what it says. Eveything is heated / kept warm /* wont freeze. *Yet various people always insist that we must open taps , place buckets etc cos no one is fully insulated ( not you, Geoff !). Others insist that we could not possibly have gas filled glass double glazing..
> 
> Most people use their vans in summer. Ours was built for winter. So what I consider normal, apparently isnt. I only discovered recently that Truma heating only works on gas. I was astonished.
> 
> Its only us winter idiots who hanker after 4x4 sprinters. Well. Us and BarryD when he is stuck in a field...


:wink2::laugh:what about frozen loo´s. :grin2:

I do believe our heating is Truma, it works on gas--- electric-- or to warm the place up quickly both together.
J.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

nicholsong said:


> Sarah
> 
> Surely, even though I know you have EHU, you do not run the heating when the MH is parked in winter, do you? Could cost you a case of Veuve Cliquot:surprise:
> 
> ...


Err. Yep. Plug him in and leave him.
It is not odd for us. We leave this house (?) in winter and the heating is left on. Imagine if everything got damp or pipes froze. In comparison, a plugged in bus costs bugger all. Enough money left for a few cases of fizz :smile2:


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

JanHank said:


> :wink2::laugh:what about frozen loo´s. :grin2:
> 
> I do believe our heating is Truma, it works on gas--- electric-- or to warm the place up quickly both together.
> J.


Ahh yes. But the cassette froze when it was stored in an outside unheated drawer...not when it was in use ! Lesson learned. Dont save full cassttes for later emptying when its -20 degrees !!! 
I know Truma can work on EHU ( Geoff told me ....0) . I just never imagined that as standard, it didnt.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

ThePrisoner said:


> I am currently choosing items to add to a new van but am getting really over faced. There are things i really want, like the chassis upgrade, but every time i go through the list of possible add ons i want them all. Of course this is not possible because of cost, weight etc.
> 
> So, my learned friends, what would you add and why?
> 
> Also, would you have things like sat dishes added by the manufacturer or by an independent?


To answer the original question, I would divide any list up into. sections, the most important one being items which benefit from being part of the original build. Obviously things like chassis upgrade, cruise control, cab aircon, tank heaters etc., but also things like leisure battery/charger/solar/inverter setup, extra lighting, reversing camera would possibly be better integrated during manufacture, and also be covered by the warranty.

Another list could be for essentials that would not need to be fitted during manufacture, e.g. awning, strikeback alam etc.

The third list would be for those items which would be nice to have, but can be added relativity easily at any time.

Your own experience is the best guide. Asking other people can produce ideas you may not have thought of, but only you can decide. Kev's statement that awnings are a complete waste of money and weight, (he meant I trust, for him personally) is a case in point, For me and the dogs, (but not my wife,) they are absolutely essential,

Malcolm


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Don't think anyone has mentioned getting extra 240v and 12v sockets fitted to avoid having extension leads running around the place. Routing in wires at a later date can be difficult . We have 7 X 240v and 4 X 12v sockets , and none of these are in the bedroom .


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

We are struggling to find 12v sockets

Not the plug in types we hate those, thesort that plug into cig lighters type fittings

Can others be bought?

SANDRA


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## ThePrisoner (Jan 13, 2009)

Thank you all. From your input so far, this is my list:

Chassis upgrade to 150bhp
Chassis pack ( coil springs,cab air con,cruise control)
Spare wheel and tyre
Awning
Alarm
External gas point
Extra sockets (thanks Sandra, hadn't considered this option)
Reversing camera 
Satellite 
Tow bar
Tyre pressure sensors
Solar panel and mttp controller 
Extra battery
Swap gaslow from current van to new one 
Alde heating system pack (better than trauma in my opinion)
Carpets

I consider these essential (Thanks Malcolm). Anything after these will be luxuries. My missus really wants air con but i'm not sure. As pointed out, there is the weight and light issue.

I would also like the air suspension but it takes the van outside my financial comfort zone 😥


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> We are struggling to find 12v sockets
> 
> Not the plug in types we hate those, thesort that plug into cig lighters type fittings
> 
> ...


Not quite sure which you mean there (tis early yet) there are the old fashioned type with two blade holes for matching plugs, there is the CBE type, or ciggy lighter sockets which require a hole to be made, but then you say the type that plugs into a ciggy socket, so I though perhaps you meant a USB charger socket, but either way loads on Ebay, I get mine from China, quality is usually okay, and if you buy local, they probably came from China anyway at some point.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Kev

We mean the old fashion sorts, with two blade holes 

We have a couple but Albert wants more to put around the van, 

Can they be bought on eBay?

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Good question, but not sure many will have a heated waste tank Jan, I do know that quite often when we're following other MoHos they do seem to be a bit incontinent.


Ours has a heated waste tank for winter use

I think the newer MH must have them ours came with it fitted

The other tank is onboard under the seats so doesn't need it

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Maybe I'll look, but they're called "Caravan Clipsal Type" I think.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEIGE-ARC...859284?hash=item566c38f414:g:ql4AAOSwcF9UW3GZ

I have a couple of these as they're very handy to convert http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADAPT-IT-...944282?hash=item56495bdbda:g:neUAAOSwQItUJSz3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLIPSAL-1...083095?hash=item3d0b545c57:g:KbgAAOSw7FRWaDz8

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clipsal-1...747052?hash=item3d188aaf2c:g:OhYAAOSwstxVCEhu

there are others too.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> Ours has a heated waste tank for winter use
> 
> I think the newer MH must have them ours came with it fitted
> 
> ...


Heated waste tank, hmm bit like a slow cooker then, render it down for a nice tasty soup.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Heated waste tank, hmm bit like a slow cooker then, render it down for a nice tasty soup.


I think she was referring to grey not black :wink2:

We have heated grey and fresh water tank heaters but we also have Alde central heating and the pipes run past the toilet cassette, keeping it lovely and warm, just as you describe :grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

siggie said:


> I think she was referring to grey not black :wink2:
> 
> We have heated grey and fresh water tank heaters but we also have Alde central heating and the pipes run past the toilet cassette, keeping it lovely and warm, just as you describe :grin2:


I thought grey was kitchen and shower waste and that black was loo Siggie.

If that's wrong someone please enlighten me.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

8


Kev_n_Liz said:


> I thought grey was kitchen and shower waste and that black was loo Siggie.
> 
> If that's wrong someone please enlighten me.


Correct, as I am sure someone with your experience knows.

Not sure why the confussion. Maybe it was my fault as I read your comment about renderring it down to a tasty soup as referring to black waste, whilst I thought Sandra was talking about her grey waste tank. If so my bad.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

siggie said:


> 8
> 
> Correct, as I am sure someone with your experience knows.
> 
> Not sure why the confussion. Maybe it was my fault as I read your comment about renderring it down to a tasty soup as referring to black waste, whilst I thought Sandra was talking about her grey waste tank. If so my bad.


I'm confused most days Siggie, being on here is not helping at times   

My bad?? wassat mean


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

salomon;2333849[B said:


> ]Err. Yep. Plug him in and leave him.[/B]


No way to treat Robbie:surprise::grin2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I meant waste water ie grey water

Not sewage ie black water 

Although in neither case is the water grey or black !!!

Sandra

Kev do something useful :grin2::grin2::smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> Kev do something useful :grin2::grin2::smile2:


Sod off   I found the parts you needed, how useful do I need to be on a Saturday afternoon.

And you didn't even thank me :crying::crying::crying:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Kev I think you'll find I did thank you :kiss:

Haven't checked it yet , just finished ironing the bedding

Gosh I'm such a paragon of virtue >

Anyway I'm sodding off for a hot shower and then a chilled glass of wine :grin2:

Not a clue about the evening meal

Had planned fresh grilled mackerel with lime, but gone off the idea now, so think I'll freeze it 

Steak pudding and chips with mushy peas sounds promising 

Think that might be Alberts job tonight 

Sandra :grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> Kev I think you'll find I did thank you :kiss:
> 
> Haven't checked it yet , just finished ironing the bedding
> 
> ...


I know I was just teasing, you stick with the wine on it's own, half way down the bottle you'll forget you didn't eat and save on the washing up too


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Nope it's pudding , chips and mushy peas , and Alberts cooking it 

And tomorrow pea soup with the addition of onions and bacon which I'll do 

Comfort food 

The joys of winter and elastic waist bands 

Log fires, dark cold nights 

I love it

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I made a lovely simple stew last week.

Rolled breast of Lamb
Tin of sliced Carrots
Tin of processed peas
A big Onion
Some of my home grown spuds well boiled and all put into the slow cooker, with some bid to and OXO
Then I boiled and mashed up some more spuds just before serving.

I use the slow cooker a lot when Liz is working, but this was the best if the simplest I've done.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Sounds really good Kev

Although breast of lamb has really shot up in price, I think it's the cookery programmes on TV

They are doing the same to belly pork 

We've had a busy day, our daughter and family arrived for a Sunday Dinner , she lives South Manchester so the Friday meal is out,its too far for them

So we meet up in between 

A lovely day

Sandra


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