# Casper and sheep



## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

We have lived in the same house for 30 years. We are at the side of a large field which has sheep and lambs in it at this time of year. We had never had a problem as we have always had another garden between ourselves and the field.
However, we have moved down the garden and have a lovely view of the field. The sheep and lambs are now sticking their heads through the sheep netting and more or less sticking their tongues out at Casper.
I am now on knife edge in case he gets through the hedge. Although it does not matter this year as we are back to France next week, when we come back we need to do something.

We have a hawthorne hedge, with sheep wire and barbed wire. This week we have put up extra wire, but no matter what he is still running at the hedge. I do not want to lose my view, but nor do I want Casper shooting because he has chased the sheep. He has made it through once in the past, he was at full speed He rounded up the sheep, but did not hurt them.

I do not think that an electric fence would affect him, as he has a lot of hair.

Has anyone any ideas please.?


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

You seem to have but 2 choices:

Keep your view and risk losing Casper.

Sacrifice your view.

Which is most important to you - the view or your dog?


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## flyinghigh (Dec 10, 2012)

Use a lead!


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Try a shock collar. A lot of people don't like these , think they are cruel, but I,ve witnessed them work twice with dogs where everything else was tried to stop them running off. After about the third shock they get the message. ie in your case you shock the dog when you see it's intentions are to go for the sheep. There are usually three levels of shock , up to you, I,ve seen one dog leap into the air and do a backwards somersault when given the most severe, probably why some think it is cruel. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. 
PS . The friend I am taking about has been an excellent gun dog trainer all his life , is not cruel to his dogs and this was a last resort for him as well - but it worked.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

The danger of dogs chasing sheep and the time that they would most likely to be shot is BEFORE the ewes have lambed, as it might cause them to abort.

Should not be a danger now.

Dick


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

If you do consider a control collar then maybe one of these systems is what you might look at :-

http://www.dogfence.co.uk

Mike

P.S. I have not needed one and I am not promoting it. I just knew the system was available and have heard it works for some.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Hi

A shock collar is an excellent tool in the hands of a trained operator, useless in the hands of someone who loves their dog and a torture tool in the wrong hands.
If you need to go down this route get some help with it.
I would probably suggest the fence system if its a continuing problem but again nits not a fit it and leave solution, you need to make sure it's working and with a long haired dog possibly keep a bit of neck shaved for the collar to work.

James


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Shock collars are illegal in Wales. And there is a growing lobby to make them illegal in Enland. Still once the lesson is learnt presumably you could dispense with it.

Dick


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Shock collars, electric fence etc etc are not guaranteed to work and are, in my opinion cruel when other options are available. Fence your garden and, perhaps, put in a raised seating area to enjoy the view.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I know someone who had a problem with his 2 Bracco gundogs (not working dogs). They could be aggressive with other dogs.

He researched shock collars but found another type that just vibrates strongly. He bought 2 and found that they worked extremely well. So much so that he hardly ever needed them after a few uses.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

A roll of 2m high 5cm chicken wire stretched across the back will not obstruct the view much, is probably less dangerous to noses than barbed wire and unless the dog decides to taking a running jump would deter any dog from getting through IMO.

You have a great looking dog there, obviously well capable of a headlong dash through a hawthorn hedge etc, but chicken wire would pull it up short - but it must be anchored to the ground as well as the ends so that it is unlikely that he would dig underneath it.

That would be my thoughts,

Dave


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

patp said:


> Shock collars, electric fence etc etc are not guaranteed to work and are, in my opinion cruel when other options are available. Fence your garden and, perhaps, put in a raised seating area to enjoy the view.


I agree,they can be cruel in the wrong hands,but some say as a last resort when all conventional methods have failed they are successful.

If it came to trying the shock collar method in a controlled fashion because nothing else worked then I would definitely give it a go and I love my dogs as much as anyone.

I would sooner the dog get a few quick shocks rather than risk being shot by an angry farmer when he is chasing sheep-that would be cruel.


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## Lesleykh (Apr 13, 2009)

We have a strong chain link fence across the bottom of our garden. We get a lovely view of the paddock beyond and our strong ridgeback/greyhound cross cannot get through. 

I think our main problem would be her digging through. She's a real speed digger, but we just don't leave her out the unsupervised. That's easy for us as our large patio has a gate and wall to separate it from the rest of the garden.

We've had to put strong bars across the top to stop the horses in the paddock leaning over the fence and bending it down.

Lesley


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Unless I'm missing something, I can't see a major problem.

Penquin's solution is the easiest and most effective as far as I can see, although I'm not sure the 5cm chicken wire would look very nice. I would do much the same, but would use a much stronger pig wire type of netting which would be far less obtrusive with its much wider mesh.

Depending on how high Casper can jump, I might also raise it even to 2.5 metres, and angle the top inwards so he can't climb up and over it.

A bit of a chore to install, but relaxation and peace of mind thereafter.

Unless I missed something, as I said before? :? 

Dave


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks everyone.

We already have stock wire 3' high, and on top of that 5cm chicken wire. When he got through it was between the top of the stock wire and underneath the barbed wire. There was a 9" gap,he tore his face on the barbed wire.
He is ok if the sheep are a few feet away from the hedge, he just gives a token run and then abandons it.
We are going to ask the farmer if he will let us put wire on his side of the hedge, so the sheep and lambs cannot push their heads through the bottom of the hedge. They eat anything in their way, so the hedge is very bare for the bottom 18". 

We are trying to divide the garden a little, it is quite big, so we think that if we put a few decorative barriers in the way it will slow him down, and also obstuct his sight lines.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

There are also training collars that vibrate and spray a scented water.
Tried it with my over-social dog with limited success.


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## PeteFarnell (Nov 20, 2013)

I'd suggest it would be much better to put a stop to the unwanted behavior rather than look for other solutions.

I've successfully trained several border collies to ignore sheep over the years, using a long line, a field with sheep, and robust verbal reprimands.

Long lines are available from ebay and pet shops, in leather or webbing - webbing ones are stronger and cheaper. About 10 meters should be long enough.

The long line will have a short loop at one end and a clip at the other, push the line through the short loop and put it over your head so that this end of the line is secured firmly round your waist.
Clip the lead to your dogs collar, making sure that the collar isn't slack and can't pull off over his head. Just a thought, Casper looks quite a bit bigger than a collie, it might be worth using a chest harness if you decide to use this technique on him. A pair of gloves will save your hands from being cut or burned by the webbing.

Get the dog on the long line, then let it see the sheep, the moment it moves towards them, brake it using the line, bring it back to you hauling on the line and give it the mother of all rollickings, face to face at close range and full volume.

Getting the timing right is essential, the reprimand must come the instant the dog moves on sheep so the dog learns to associate it's move on the sheep with the rollicking, the rollicking must be harsh enough to overcome the dogs interest in the sheep. It doesn't matter what you actually say to it, it's the dissaproval in your voice that matters!

This will need repeating once or twice a day for a few days, but it has always worked for me in the past. 

Hopefully after a few days you will only need to give a sharp "OIE, NO!!!" as a reminder if the dog looks at sheep.

I know it isn't nice doing this and a lot of people don't believe in shouting at dogs, but chasing sheep is a recipe for disaster for the dog and the sheep, and it reflects badly on all dog owners.

I can walk my dogs through sheep without even thinking about it now, one is trained to be "sheep neutral" as she is a working dog and I need her to ignore sheep and keep working, the other is a pet dog and is trained to come back and walk to heel if she sees a sheep.

I hope you can successfully train his interest in sheep out of Casper!

Good luck,
Pete


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi.
PeterFarnel is spot on,we call it,"Rope a Dope". After the initial rope attached to your person/hand,leave the rope attached to the dog but let it go to trail along the floor after the dog,if it decides to ignore you again you can step on the rope and haul it back hand over hand "Telling it OFF!!". Works for me,it's an old farm trick . After this second reminder (If needed) you will have a super dog and be able to go anywhere. 
hulltramper
PS. BT blue cable rope is as good as anything and is sometimes.Free? ?? :roll: :roll:


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## larryn (Apr 22, 2013)

The best way is to ask local farmer if he can put it in a trailer with a tupper (RAM)after a few minutes it will never look at a sheep again can guarantee it


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## larryn (Apr 22, 2013)

The best way is to ask local farmer if he can put it in a trailer with a tupper (RAM)after a few minutes it will never look at a sheep again can guarantee it


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

larryn said:


> The best way is to ask local farmer if he can put it in a trailer with a tupper (RAM)after a few minutes it will never look at a sheep again can guarantee it


I remember a programme on TV about 50 years ago showing this technique. Nationwide maybe?
In that case they tied the dog to the ram with a length of rope, about six or eight feet long. The dog went for the ram & ended up getting rammed. After a few bouts of this the dog was keen to get away but the rope kept him there. Quite a permanent cure apparently, as the dogs don't forget!
I had a similar thing when we had a Labrador about 40 years ago. When he was about nine months old, I was walking him off the lead through a field of cows. He started to chase one of the cows. She broke into a trot for a few steps but then thought "I've had enough of this nonsense", and turned & bunted him sideways into a ditch. He rushed straight back to heel & never tried to chase cows ever again.
The cows were de-horned Ayrshires BTW, otherwise she could have done him serious damage.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I wish you every luck les

We have had long haired German shepherds for over 30 yrs

And then we have the hound from hell

So excitable at times he hears no commands

So intelligent you can almost have a conversation with him and he actually vocalises his replies

Have settled to keeping strong control

But in the MH he remains a problem if he can see anyone out of any window
We would reinforce the fence
Aldra


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