# Sleeping While Driving...



## mizargtl

What is the law around kids sleeping in motorhome beds while you are driving? The dealer I bought the motorhome from said there is no legal reason why this shouldn't happen and it is a risk management decision (would you take the risk of having your child unbelted in a moving vehicle?).


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## locovan

When it comes to the law surely all passengers should be secured.
BUT a lot of people do risk it and I know a women who sits in the Luton and reads


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## aldra

I would not risk it, especially as they would be sleeping at the back of the vehicle

If adults choose to do it that's their choice legal or not

kids no, its not a choice I would be making for them

Aldra


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## cronkle

This might help:

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/index.htm


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## Nethernut

A friend of our's had a crash whilst the children were asleep, one on his wife's lap and one lying on the back seat (this was in the 70s) - the one on his wife's lap spent 2 years in hospital and ended up permenantly disabled, the one on the back seat ended up with a fractured skull, broken arms and smashed up face. the parents just had a few bruises!!
Would you really risk your children's lives in this way?


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## teemyob

*Driving*

If it were just the risk of an accident, I would run that risk.

But there are too many dickheads on the road today that cause crashes rather than accidents. Like the one I mentioned driving a landcruiser on the M6 last year. Swerving and slamming his brakes on in front of us. All that without considering what innocent parties were on-board, including the kids in the back of his car.

Adults by their own choice, children should be belted in where possible.

TM


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## Bill_H

A friend of mine had a crash while the kids were in bed asleep.
While both front seat passengers suffered heavy bruising from the seatbelts, the kids in the back were totally protected by the bedding and didn't have a mark on them.


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## sallytrafic

There are too many occasions when the rear part of a coachbuilt van has been totally destroyed in a roll over to make it safe for anyone to be in the habitation area when driving. Unless its a panel van.


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## Ozzyjohn

sallytrafic said:


> There are too many occasions when the rear part of a coachbuilt van has been totally destroyed in a roll over to make it safe for anyone to be in the habitation area when driving. Unless its a panel van.


Frank,

Are you suggesting that the only "safe" family motorhome (i.e one that travels with more than two people on board) is a panel van?

Regards,
John


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## Pollydoodle

I thought if there were seat belts, it is a legal requirement to use them, although I know a lot of 4 berth Mhomes only have 2 belted seats - which is why we ended up with a 6 berth!


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## Scattycat

Older vans, I think built before 2005, did not have to have seat belts for passengers in the habitation area.

Our van for example has beds for 4 people and is certified to carry 4 people but there is no requirement for seat belts in the habitation area. Although it is specified which seats should be used

We have been advised that retro fitted seat belts would be illegal because there are no proper anchorage points.

I think if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident in and older van I don't think it makes a lot of difference whether you are in one of the passenger seats or in bed it is still probably going to hurt a bit.


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## Penquin

Surely if the children are under 12 then the law requires them to travel in a properly belted seat if they are fitted. There is no excuse for ignoring that IMO.

If there are no seat belts fitted then IMO letting children travel in the back is dangerous and should never be done - in the (hopefully unlikely) event of an rtc the damage and injuries could be lethal and the aftermath horrendous "what if we had not allowed....." "how will XYZ cope with those injuries in 10 years time......?" and so on.

I am sorry but allowing children to sleep unrestrained in the back is potentially lethal and if they are under 12, the driver is held responsible for such things.

Children are too precious to be put at risk in such a manner. I know of too many where it has gone wrong (used to work for the ambulance service and spent time on response vehicles and ambulances.......)

Dave


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## IanA

My MH was built in 2003, so doesn't have to have rear seatbelts, and with sideways seating it is more dangerous to fit, even if the anchorages were there. We try not to carry anyone in the rear, but with a 6-berth MH it is sometimes difficult. We always protect the one most at risk, so if we have to have a child in the vehicle, they sit in the front seat on a suitable child seat, the adult travels in the back.

I understand that once all the seat belts are in use there is nothing to stop people travelling without , apart from the fact that a police officer can decide that the people constitute an insecure load and both prosecute the driver and ensure that the excess people are removed from the vehicle.

My wife is very happy to lay on the rear bed, but can only do this if the front seat is occupied as she should use a belt if one is available. The law changed in 2006, so all passengers should now be belted in.

Legally this seems to be a bit of a grey area as the rules abroad aren't as forgiving - bit like A-frames in Spain - but if legal in country of origin, should be accepted.
I fully understand and acknowledge the moral arguments about unsecured passengers, but this is the legal area.


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## pneumatician

I imagine what Sallytraffic was saying that with any accident it would be preferable to be in a "Tin Top" than a coachbuilt but especially in a roll over. Most coachbuilts are basically caravans mounted on a van chassis and we have all seen the results of a caravan collision.
The only real protection you have is the chassis and preferably the Steel Cab, engine etc. I believe most A class do not even have this indeed some have only one exit point. Mind I imagine you could leave the vehicle at almost any point in a prang, if able.

Steve


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## UncleNorm

Has anyone asked an insurance company for its point of view? I suspect that the vehicle insurance would be null and void. :?:


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## mizargtl

Thanks for all the replies and comments. All things considered I wouldn't take the risk and would want my kids belted during the journey. As a parent and the driver it is my responsibility to ensure their safety. I have seen adults (and children) sitting in the rear lounge of moving motorhomes with no belts on. Adults are responsible for their own safety although in a court of law the driver may be found guilty as the person in charge of the vehicle but that's a whole different issue.


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## aldra

mizargti

A very wise decision

Roll on the days when the number of berths match the number of seatbelts

We changed our motor home when the kids got more grand-kids to enable them to use it

No way will my grand-kids travel without seat belts

Aldra


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## Gretchibald

So is it legal or not to lie in the bed when traveling ?


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## aldra

I suppose if there are no seatbelts available, sitting, lying makes no difference

Depends on the insurance and police interpretation in the event of an accident

and the age of the vehicle

Aldra


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## wakk44

This subject crops up on here every so often and I have attempted to clarify the position in the past by contacting a couple of regulatory bodies.

Have a look at the following 2 posts and try and make some sense of it........................

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1154599.html#1154599

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1163930.html#1163930


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## bubble63

mizargtl said:


> The dealer I bought the motorhome from said there is no legal reason why this shouldn't happen and it is a risk management decision (would you take the risk of having your child unbelted in a moving vehicle?).


doh!
I strap mine in then put bedding around them

wouldn't dream of letting them get in a bed

who would be stupid enough to do this, except of course the sales/dealer.

:roll:

Neil


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## Suenliam

To be a bit silly (can't spell facicious) it's legal to cross the road when cars are coming at speed. However, it is not wise.

How can you guarantee that children will remain in bed without being "belted in"?

We read on here that it is so dangerous to travel with unsecured pets, I wonder what the difference is with unsecured children?

Sue


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## Ozzyjohn

Suenliam said:


> We read on here that it is so dangerous to travel with unsecured pets, I wonder what the difference is with unsecured children?
> 
> Sue


Sue,

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you what the difference is - but I will .

Children can often be much larger and heavier than pets - so the potential for damage to themselves and others within the van (belted or otherwise) when they start to fly about is much greater.

We spent a lot of time researching vans to get one with enough designated travel seats and 3 point seatbelts for all passengers.

However, I'm not opposed to a bit of ongoing risk assessment - by doing so I have allowed my children to use the toilet whilst on the move at very slow speed on the motorway in a near gridlock situation. Didn't feel significantly more dangerous than using the loo on a coach at normal motorway speeds.

Regards,
John


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## Jezport

Bill_H said:


> A friend of mine had a crash while the kids were in bed asleep.
> While both front seat passengers suffered heavy bruising from the seatbelts, the kids in the back were totally protected by the bedding and didn't have a mark on them.


Right then I am going to rip the 6 airbags out of my car and fit a duvet as your friend obviously knows more about safety than all the car manufacturers who have wasted millions on safety research. But should I keep my seatbelts or just buy 4 pillows and tape them to the front of all passengers? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## olley

People get very emotive about this issue and the usual "If you cared for your kids you wouldn't do it" routine comes out, as I believe driving is statistically more dangerous than any other way of travelling, should we be putting them in a motorhome at all? 

For myself, as the youngest is 25 I let her decide, as the grandson is 6 he gets bolted down.  But if others choose to different that's up to them.

Ian


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## sallytrafic

Ozzyjohn said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are too many occasions when the rear part of a coachbuilt van has been totally destroyed in a roll over to make it safe for anyone to be in the habitation area when driving. Unless its a panel van.
> 
> 
> 
> Frank,
> 
> Are you suggesting that the only "safe" family motorhome (i.e one that travels with more than two people on board) is a panel van?
> 
> Regards,
> John
Click to expand...

Well not exactly as neither would be 'safe' in a huge shunt. I think the panel van would be safer.

My current van for example is made of thin sheets of ply either side of expanded polystyrene. This makes for a very stiff and strong construction however its not tough, you could rip it apart with a stanley knife. So in a collision it would very much depend on what you hit and how sharp it was, once the integrity of the structure was lost it would fall apart. A panel van could also be torn apart but it less likely to fall apart afterwards.

A monocoque glassfibre construction, if well made, and sufficiently thick would probably give the most protection. Not every manufacturer does this.

The bigger a sandwich construction motorhome is, the more likely it is to fail in a collision which results in a full or partial roll-over.


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## Jezport

There is no excuse or reasonable argument for allowing a child to travel in anything other than a belted travel seat.


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## sparky20006

If the truth be told probably thousands of people all across Europe go and get their head down in the back of motorhomes while someone drives. We do. Our friends do. Our friends friends do.

We can all start being elf and safety mad but it's not really real is it?

What next? No radio. its a distraction. Similarly no talking to passengers.

We'll be doing the air hostess escape and life jacket mime routine soon before departure :lol:

Paul


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## Gretchibald

Well said. The question however was academic no need for anyone to get their knickers in a twist over it.


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## Zozzer

If a panel van is supposed to safer in a rollover situation, why hasn't the EU Commission insisted that a roll cage is incorporated into the design of coachbuilt motorhomes. ?

I don't anyone would quibble at the extra costs involved to improve the safety of coachbuilt units.


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## sallytrafic

Zozzer said:


> If a panel van is supposed to safer in a rollover situation, why hasn't the EU Commission insisted that a roll cage is incorporated into the design of coachbuilt motorhomes. ?
> 
> I don't anyone would quibble at the extra costs involved to improve the safety of coachbuilt units.


Payload, there wouldn't be a coach built under 3500kg


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