# Supermarket Fuel v BP/ Shell Etc



## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi
Does anyone know if there is a real difference between fuels? Is it really worth spending the extra cash?
Regards
Alshymer


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

alshymer said:


> Hi
> Does anyone know if there is a real difference between fuels? Is it really worth spending the extra cash?
> Regards
> Alshymer


In my opinion (and experience) and that of many others yes.

In the opinion of other others no.

All fuel comes from the same bulk tanks at refineries all that varies is the additives pack added by different retailers to their brand.

So far as I know the only difference to this is Shell V-Power diesel which is made from a gas base stock by a completely different refining/production system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_V-Power#V-Power_Diesel

PS if you check on petrolprices.co you will usually that in any given area Shell is as cheap, (if not cheaper than,) as the stuff flogged by supermarkets, unless they have one of their "spend a huge amount on overpriced items and we'll give you 5p off" offers on.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

My Scudo does 34 mpg whatever fuel I put in it. 
Volvo c30 does 50 mpg whatever fuel is used except 57.8 today at a cruise control speed of 60mph on A1 for 200 miles But I must say most of the time the average speed was 50mph, traffic, road works.
MH did 1650 miles over 11 days last month
Total excellium gave us 22.9 mpg on motorway driving through France at 55/58 mph. Which is not much differrnce to th e24 mpg averaged over last years useage.

i do monitor fuel use as it is my largest business expence. £153 this week.
So as a 30k miles a year driver I would say No.

Dave p


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Supermarket fuel v BP/Shell etc*

Hi 
Thanks for your replies, but are the premium fuels better for engines.
Obviously a motorhome is an expensive piece of kit, so maybe it is worth using better fuels for longer engine life.
Ford are now recommending Shell to all new customers!!
Obviously the cynics will say that there is a tie up.
Regards
Alshymer


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

My thinking is that just like my Heinz baked beans taste the same from Morrisons or the corner shop then so be it with fuel.

I also think the thing with the more expensive fuel is if your van has already done 100k and is 10 or 15 years old IF a cheaper fuel gives less over all miles per engine the damage is already done. If you have a brand new engine who will know if the engine will do 200k or 250k miles. Probably not me

stew


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Judging on the average mileage that mh`s do compared with whit/ silver van men do I am sure your engine will be going strong long after your hymer.
My last 3 works vans notched up in exxcess of 150 k miles each . No mechanical problems at all.
I read somewhere recently that Fiat would not expect any major engine problems from the 2.8 turbo until it had passed 375k miles.

Dave p


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I read somewhere recently that Fiat would not expect any major engine problems from the 2.8 turbo until it had passed 375k miles.
> 
> Dave p


Not sure Unclenorm would agree with them!


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

artona said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> > I read somewhere recently that Fiat would not expect any major engine problems from the 2.8 turbo until it had passed 375k miles.
> ...


There is always one :wink: 
I thought his was a three litre.

Dave p


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

When I was at college I used to work Sunday's at a Sainsbury's filling station (because it was the only place other than the bakery you could get 8 hours on a Sunday and back then it was double time!). We used to get delivery's from BP either in Sainsbury's, Unbranded or less often BP tankers. The drivers (all who worked for BP and so was the paperwork) swore they just queued up in line and went off to their destinations.

BP have just 'bog standard' diesel but Shell's regular product is branded 'Fuel Save' which although I believe is a Placebo effect I'm sure I get 2-3 better MPG from Shell.

The real answer to the question would be if you filled up with Premium fuel (such as Optimax etc) do you get any better MPG then since there should be not debating that it is a 'better product' compared to Supermarkets.

Out here in Eastern Europe and especailly in the Baltics 80% of the cars are late 80's early 90's era Audi's. Audi 80, 90, 100 first of the A4's etc. Most of them diesel and all of them 400,500,600k+

I don't think their owners are reaching for Optimax every time!


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## BwB (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't know about in the MH as the variables alter too much, but my work van does a similar route with similar loads every week. If I fill up with Shell the computer shows about 2mpg more between refills than if I use Sainsbury fuel.

I know the van computers are not accurate but as a reference on averages its ok to use.

So I would say, yes, there is a difference.

I also found, when I was a caravan tugger, that filling up the 4X4 from the lorry pumps instead of the regular pumps also got me better diesel mpg. But I can't vouch for that 100% as it wasn't a regular habit.

BTW the Co-op has a 5p of a Ltr deal coming up so keep your eyes peeled.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

have never seen a Co-op garage  just realised you mean Safeway.I buy the cheapest available, our car is now at 142k miles and it does not care either.
It is purely physcological, you see the advert about keeping the engine clean, well hardened valves do that for you plus all the filters,so one tries if you can to get extra mpg to beat their figures so you drive accordingly. simples.


cabby
not confused .com


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Hmmmm....... I think that this has been written about before. Unless you buy a premium fuel such as the Shell V-power then apart from some ppm of additives it is the same stuff, from the same blend stocks, frequently out of the same ship delivery from Rotterdam and often from the same tanks. I'll try and find my previous posts about fuel quality. It all has to comply with en590 for diesel and if I had a fiver for every time I read that "Tesco/Asda/whatever fuel is rubbish/wrecked my engine/gives poor economy" then I'd be a rich man. Consider this....... If the supermarket fuel was poor stuff, then why don't half the cars/vans etc in UK keep breaking down, why aren't the supermarkets regularly sued for poor quality goods and why aren't trading standards on their backs all the time. They cannot afford the bad publicity of providing inferior or illegal fuel.

I always fill up where it is cheapest in the sure knowledge that my engine is designed to run on the fuel without problems and in some places that is Shell stations or one of the other majors. In the big scheme of things, it isn't worth getting hung up over 1p a litre or so but worth it for some bigger differences.

Having said that, if it feels better to the driver to use a particular fuel, then why not? It is a free country (just).


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

alshymer said:


> Does anyone know if there is a real difference between fuels? Is it really worth spending the extra cash?


Petrol - I always paid the extra for a higher octane when going over mountain ranges in France in the car. I felt it coped much better with the load and was worth it.

Now I have the motorhome but know nothing about diesel. I have wondered if the same applies so am interested in this thread.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi,

This might help:-

Link


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

fifth gear did a comparison with v power and found no power increase ... but it will clean the engine and i supose we should accept an increased claim of mpg as its hard to believe they would get away with that claim as europeans !

My fiat sports car is mapped to it at 260 hp and i shouldnt use anything else and very nice it is too, but i ve got to say a nice freezing cold morning makes all the differance..


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

spatz1 said:


> fifth gear did a comparison with v power and found no power increase ... but it will clean the engine and i supose we should accept an increased claim of mpg as its hard to believe they would get away with that claim as europeans !
> 
> My fiat sports car is mapped to it at 260 hp and i shouldnt use anything else and very nice it is too, but i ve got to say a nice freezing cold morning makes all the differance..


Hi,
What sort of Fiat sports car produces 260 bhp. My 500's produced about 12 on a good day.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

BillCreer said:


> spatz1 said:
> 
> 
> > fifth gear did a comparison with v power and found no power increase ... but it will clean the engine and i supose we should accept an increased claim of mpg as its hard to believe they would get away with that claim as europeans !
> ...


Possibly a remapped 5 cylinder Coupe at a guess.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Could be a very highly tuned Fiat Dino.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

spatz1 said:


> fifth gear did a comparison with v power and found no power increase


Perhaps, but it very much depends on whether the individual vehicle is setup to take advantage of higher octane fuel. On a family hatchback, probably won't make much odds as they're setup to run default on 95RON. On my supercharged Jag, it makes a heck of a difference because it's setup for higher octane and retards itself when fed with normal juice. That said, price of petrol nowadays it tends to get fed on standard stuff rather than V-power etc.

On a commercial diesel engine like in most motorhomes, I'd need some convincing that it makes a great deal of difference.


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## Markt500 (Mar 23, 2010)

Tesco diesel all the way for us (collect the poins too), if you're worried about cleaning the inside of pretty much bomb proof diesel engine, just get an annual bottle of Redex.


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

Maybe it depends on how long you keep your vehicles. I hd a 186,000 mile Nissan on which the emission figures on its last MOT were the same as on the first, after running on nothing but Shell petrol. Most cars I've had need a carburettor de-dunking after 80-100 thousand miles - that car never needed anything (other than paying for the fuel!)


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

stanner..
you know your cars, :wink: 
i also used v power in a tuned elise and got much better fuel consumption but never noticed a power increase as the driving experience is phenomal on the limit...


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

spatz1 said:


> stanner..
> you know your cars, :wink:


History in no particular order.................

Delta HF Turbo, Panda (Mk1) 4x4, Regatta Est, several Unii, Tempra SW TD, 3 Mareas (2xTD 1xJTD) SW, Croma (Mk2) 120JTD, 156 SW JTD, Ducato m/home.

.................... and probably a couple more I've forgotten.

It didn't take much working out. 
:wink:


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

Stanner said:


> spatz1 said:
> 
> 
> > stanner..
> ...


You must be on first name terms with most of the R.A.C :lol:


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

spatz1 said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > spatz1 said:
> ...


Wash your mouth out, only ever had one call out for a Fiat - an immobilisor that wouldn't stop immobilising.

Eventually found out it was just bluffing and would gave in after a couple more tries.............................. :wink:

One tip, stick to the diesels they are bullet proof.

Now if you were talking about the Fords and other makes I've owned, that would be a different story :roll:


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

You like your Fiats Stanner. Nothing much wrong at all with their engines - a lot of the recent ones are at least partially the result of the joint venture with GM and are mostly Fiat technology, not GM's.

back to fuels - if I had a high performance car or one that was aggressively remapped, then I would use a superfuel, probably Shell V-Power as then it really does make a difference. I'll stick to my guns about ordinary vehicles though as we have about 20 years of fuel testing research to back it up (fuel quality is part of my job).

On a side note, I thought that the recent Shell "fuel save" campaign was a huge joke. What was it? one litre per tank saved? That is about 2% - statistically insignificant. I don't know if anyone else does it but I always track my fuel consumption on a spreadsheet - used to keep a spreadsheet of mileage for the tax man and carried on - which showed some interesting results.

1) Each car (all diesels) showed progressively improving economy since 1999 despite big increases in power. Current car is a mercedes with a conventional auto box returning an average of 46.8 over 34000 miles
2) I tried BP ultimate in my last car for 3000 miles and the fuel consumption went down from 46.5 to 46.2 and the car didn't feel any better but possibly a bit smoother. Conclusion - a waste of money in a Vectra but the ecomony difference was statistically insignificant
3) apart from the above, 90% of what I put in the car is supermarket fuel; usually Tesco or Sainsbury. Number of breakdowns in 12 years = one. EGR valve failure at 88000 miles on the vectra, which is above the norm
4) I do a lot of driving on the continent and the fuel there is no different in terms of economy (so it shouldn't - it is EC law.... EN590 spec all over Europe)

Basically as far as filling the vehicle is concerned, it is whatever floats the individual boat - some people feel happier and the vehicle feels better with branded fuels some with supermarket fuel. No problem with either...... just wish I was able to liberate some free cetane improver from our fuel treatment division......


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

duxdeluxe said:


> You like your Fiats Stanner. Nothing much wrong at all with their engines - a lot of the recent ones are at least partially the result of the joint venture with GM and are mostly Fiat technology, not GM's.
> .


Worse thing Fiat ever did I've just had the Croma (120JTD) MOT'd for the second time (it's 3rd overall) - it is 90% GM as the floorpan and all running gear is the Ypsilon chassis used for the Vectra "C", Signum and Saab 9-3. All petrol engines are GM and all diesel engines are Fiat JTD even if badged TiD or Cdti - the non engine bits are rubbish. It has failed every MOT on GM bits firstly a front spring broken, then a track control arm and something else I can't recall possibly drop links and then this time BOTH rear springs snapped in exactly (within mm) the same place just over one turn from the bottom. My previous Mareas went to their 8th or 9th MOT before needing anything done, but then THEY didn't have a GM designed/built floorpan.
FIAT often get a poor press - I for one just cannot understand why, as they have consistently given me far less problems than the more "reliable" makes. Having done mystery shopping on servicing for a major German manufacturer group, I personally wouldn't touch an **** or a ** with your bargepole, let alone mine.

As for your comments on fuel quality and EN590, that is only a lowest common denominator of minimum quality and not hard to comply with - there is nothing to stop companies selling higher quality fuel with better additive packs and some do.


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

I work (as an outsider) for an oil company and meet many extremely clever and presumably very well paid boffins who devote their entire lives to developing fuels that will differentiate their brands from those of others.

As others have already said, deliveries are made to many different places including Big Oil sites, supermarkets etc using the same tanker that has drawn fuel from the same gantry at the same loading terminal.

The difference is almost entirely in the additive packages, which are added automatically into the relevant compartment in the tanker from which the fuel will be drawn. As far as I know, that's the difference.

Is it worth paying for? Up to each of us to decide for ourselves. Personally, I can't bring myself to pay the extra.


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## NeilandDebs (Aug 28, 2008)

*Diesel additives*

Good morning All

Interesting thread. Can anyone tell me if additives like 'Redex' are worth putting in the tank. If yes how often should it be put in.

Neil


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## mrbricolage (Jun 30, 2008)

On the subject of addititives. On a BMW forum I frequent most people recommend Millers Diesel Sport additive. Seems to make the engine that bit smoother. Might be worth trying in a MH.


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## sander4709 (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm a bit of a fan of BP Ultimate Diesel which I use in our Hymer (1991 Fiat) in Europe and also in our 1994 Isuzu in New Zealand. 

The Isuzu motorhome is a light truck and I would say there is also a smidgen more power produced when using this fuel and there is noticeably less visible engine smoke.

In Europe however, the Hymer however is definitely smoother, quieter, less smokey, more responsive and quicker.

So, in summary I seek out BP Ultimate when I'm in Europe but I'm less bothered when I'm in NZ. 

By the way I pay 76p per litre for BP Ultimate Diesel here in NZ.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

sander4709 said:


> By the way I pay 76p per litre for BP Ultimate Diesel here in NZ.


But you also pay a £100 or so RUC every 5000kms. :wink:

Then again the more diesel it drinks the better value that is.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Fuel*

I buy the cheapest - and my mpg is pretty constant irrespective.

Russell


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*Diesel*

I always buy supermarket usually Sainsbury's) but coming back from Cornwall I was forced to get Shell. Just done the calcs as I have filled up at Sainsbury's 3mpg less with the Shell and nearly all motorway driving. I do use Millers additive but I wonder about that too.

Graham


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

My experience of premium brand v supermarket bog standard fuels:

*Petrol* - in the UK no point at all in buying 97 RON Super Unleaded. I have a V6 petrol Vectra and this gives (a) no discernible increase in performance and (b) slightly worse consumption than the 95 RON Premium Unleaded stuff. I'm not surprised that many petrol stations no longer sell Super Unleaded. I hear that 102 RON Super Unleaded is obtainable in the UK but I've never seen it.

On Sainsbury's 95 RON Premium Unleaded if I cruise at an indicated 70 mph (@ true 66 mph) I can easily get 40 mpg.

On the other hand, in France and Germany the 98 RON Super Unleaded is the Real Thing. It does make a noticeable difference to performance especially when fully loaded with luggage and therefore makes overtaking more secure with a bigger safety margin. As for economy, I consistently got 32 mpg on the German Autobahns cruising at 90-120 mph on the German 98 RON petrol, compared with previous 28 mpg at 80-85 mph* on UK motorways, again on UK 97 RON Super Unleaded. That's an amazing improvement considering the higher speeds.

Conclusion - UK Super Unleaded 97 RON is rubbish and not worth paying extra for. You would need at least 3% improved econcomy to recoup the extra cost and in my experience the reverse is what you get.

*Diesel* - in the UK I feel that the VW 2.5 TDi Westy does benefit slightly from an occasional tankful of Shell Diesel V-Power. It seems to make the engine smoother and more free-revving but again no discernible difference to economy compared with supermarket basic diesel.

SD

(*tsk tsk, I know  - I'm much more law-abiding nowadays)


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## aircool (Jul 13, 2009)

SpeedyDux said:


> My experience of premium brand v supermarket bog standard fuels:
> 
> *Petrol* - in the UK no point at all in buying 97 RON Super Unleaded. I have a V6 petrol Vectra and this gives (a) no discernible increase in performance and (b) slightly worse consumption than the 95 RON Premium Unleaded stuff. I'm not surprised that many petrol stations no longer sell Super Unleaded. I hear that 102 RON Super Unleaded is obtainable in the UK but I've never seen it.
> 
> ...


Depends where your getting your super unleaded I suppose (thats on top of your car being able to detect a change in fuel). V Power is 99 IIRC (as well as Tesco Momentum where appended with "99").

Also V-Power Diesel does seem to be different with much more top end, Fifth Gear actually did a test showing an increase in power on a dyno.

And supermarket 'fuels' tend to have fewer additives/detergents in (more so in diesel as low sulfur fuels arent great without a replacement).


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Most modern engines are designed to run on lower octane bio fuel, so there is little, if any, benefit in paying extra, unless you have a tuned engine that requires it.

On the other side of the coin, older tuned pre-unleaded cars, my TR5 for instance, was designed to run on 5* fuel. As I still run on the original leaded head, I find a world of difference using more refined higher octane fuel, such as V-power, and I also use an additive to increase the octane and protect the valve seats.

If I put 95 RON in the fuel tank, which I only do in an emergency if I cannot reach a suitable filling station, it runs terrible, pinks and coughs, even with the additive.

I have more problems in France with fuel than in the UK, as they usually have a higher ethanol content added.


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

Addie said:


> When I was at college I used to work Sunday's at a Sainsbury's filling station (because it was the only place other than the bakery you could get 8 hours on a Sunday and back then it was double time!). We used to get delivery's from BP either in Sainsbury's, Unbranded or less often BP tankers. The drivers (all who worked for BP and so was the paperwork) swore they just queued up in line and went off to their destinations.
> 
> BP have just 'bog standard' diesel but Shell's regular product is branded 'Fuel Save' which although I believe is a Placebo effect I'm sure I get 2-3 better MPG from Shell.
> 
> ...


My wife works in a local Sainsbury PFS, and their City Diesel is currently supplied by Grenegery Fuels Ltd, who also supply Shell with their biodiesel.


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