# Motorhomes & Covenants?



## wasfitonce (Apr 27, 2009)

Any legal bods out there who can help our freinds.

Their neibours have sent via a solicitor a letter stating that they must remove their "large" motorhome (16' x 6' small Citrion van conversion)) from their drive, as it not allowed under a covenant which applies to their small estate of 14 houses. 

The covenant was put by the builders who ceasted trading over ten years ago. The covenant states that you may only keep on your drive is a private car or a small trade van any other sort of vechicle should be garaged.

The covenant does not state that it is enduring covenant.

The letter also states that the motorhome should be removed by the end of this month or they will take our freinds to court and will recover all their cost from them.

Hope some one can offer some advise.

Paul and Ann


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

The only people who can 'enforce' a covenant are the ones who put it there in the first place. :wink: 

tony


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Paul and Ann,

You may get a few opinions on here but without a full set of facts and a copy of the actual wording of the Covenant and the registered title it relates to, I don't think you can expect anything that your friends can safely rely on in their defence. 

It's also a difficult area because as far as I am aware there hasn't been a test case yet on whether the definition of "caravan" in the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 actually applies to the typical restrictive covenenant of this sort because in practice they seldom refer to a motorhome or motor caravan as such.

Their best bet is to consult a local solicitor. It will cost, but that's cheaper than ending up with a Court order to pay the Claimant's costs. 


SD


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

A covenants that has been put in a legal documents, whether eduring or not is there for a reason. It is irrelevent if the original covenant owner is no longer trading, the benefit of such a covenant is still enforceable. In my opinion, if there is a covenant that clearly states motor car or small van, then this definitely does not allow for the parking of a motorhome.

With regard to taking your friends to Court, this would prove to be a long and very drawn out affair, and could become very costly.

The arguement that your friends could have, being as that the motorhome in question is only 16 x 6 surely, this is no bigger than a commercial van. Are there any commercial vans parked on the estate. If your friend decides to pursue and not remove the motorhome then he should look around the estate at all the vehicles that are parked to support his arguement.

If it were me, I would definitely remove the vehicle.

Jenny


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## ramblingon (Jul 15, 2009)

Get some vinyl trade name and stick it on darkened windows. How about Sew n' Sew van furnishings. :lol:


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Might I suggest you produce the full wording of the covenant and then post your question on the MottleyFool Legal Board crossed posted to their Property Board which is frequented by solicitors and property experts who often provide helpful advice. The wording of the covenant is vital here. 

As a general comment Covenants are not always what they seem and not all are enforceable. Normally its the person who imposed the covenant ( the builder) who is the enforcer but as a general principle a covenant CAN be enforced by the courts if a beneficiary (the neighbour) of the covenant objects. The agreement is enforced by granting an injunction forbidding the landowner to break the agreement. 

Its an expensive and complex process if the neighbour wishes to go down that route but if you lose you will be liable for his costs as well as your own.


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## Hymervanman (Aug 20, 2010)

In my humble opinion, the solicitor is not at liberty to enforce a covenant until the "offence" is proven by an independent court. To me , you are being bullied and I would stay calm and friendly and explain that you did not realise that the covenant was being broken.
Ask them how they have reached this presumption,and explain that your vehicle could actually be defined as a caravan and is therefore not a vehicle. Also, you may also wish to mention that you can legally park it on the public highway in front of your property.
I would ignore the month ruling as they cannot enforce that either- maybe mention it in your reply.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I am surprised that the neigbours did not call round and have a friendly chat rather than get a solicitor to write a letter.why is that.
Your friends must have known about the covenant when they bought the property.
I rather like the idea of company stickers on the cab doors,which you take off when you get down the road. making it a commercial vehicle idea.
What about them buying a cover for it. I would strongly suggest inviting as many neighbours as possible round for a G &T and say you missunderstood, ask if having a profesional fitted cover would be ok.
try to work it out between you rather than conflict via a solicitor.

cabby


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

May I also suggest the local Citizens advice bureau.


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## Westkirby01 (Jan 25, 2009)

Park your vehicle outside their house, on the road. As long as it is taxed and insured you can park it on any highway.  If asked state that until the question of the covenant is sorted out you will not park it on your drive as you do not want to inflame the situation.

?????


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## MorrisMotorhome (Mar 4, 2009)

The law relating to restrictive covenants is complex. The only people who could enforce this particular covenant would be the builder who imposed the covenant or a neighbour who had the benefit of the covenant. They could only fall into this category if they were the first owners of their property AND they bought their property before your friend. If either of these conditions is not satisfied then they could not enforce the covenant.

I would be pretty sure that the neighbours have been to see their solicitor and he has agreed to send a "frightener".


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Frteigtner*

I agree with the last poster, letter is intending to be intimidating, frightening or similar.

Most people are very scared of letters from Solicitors. I for one am not. I had one from my Neighbours Solicitor and I, in very polite and long worded english told them where to go. I also tripped the solicitor and my neighbours up which I think, was rather embarrassing for them.

The only thing you have to be very careful of is to get your facts right and be extremely careful with your words.

I would be very interested to read the letter that this Solicitor has sent your Friends!.

Do they have legal cover with their home insurer?
Could they build a Garage to house it?
Could they claim the vehicle is a Private Light Goods they use for work?

Some people are just nasty, jealous (green eyed monster) or just far too much time on their hands.

I guess your friends get great enjoyment from their camper and just want to get on with their lives. And with all the troubles, misery and other peoples misfortune in life, there will always be some spiteful, hateful 8astards who want to rain on other peoples parade.

Good luck.

TM


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

MorrisMotorhome said:


> The law relating to restrictive covenants is complex. The only people who could enforce this particular covenant would be the builder who imposed the covenant or a neighbour who had the benefit of the covenant. They could only fall into this category if they were the first owners of their property AND they bought their property before your friend. If either of these conditions is not satisfied then they could not enforce the covenant.


It all depends upon the wording in the original Covenant, the Title Deeds and subsequent Sale & Purchase Agreements. In effect when a purchaser signs a contract to purchase a property they are agreeing to abide by the Restrictive Covenants contained in the Contract. The Restrictive Covenant will bind the land owner to its terms unless the clause specifically states a period of time which it is to end, or otherwise. In my last house which was built in the 1930's there was a restrictive covenant by virtue of a "building line" beyond which nothing could be built. I was the 5th owner of the property and the covenant applied to me as much as it did to the people I bought the house from and the people I sold it to.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Vans*

I think a lot of the Camper/Caravan/Boat/Motorhome covenants are put in to protect the builder. After all, many would be put off buying a house next to a homeowner who has a rotting cruiser and or caravan on the drive next to where there is an empty plot.

Quite often the rest is just pure snobbery/jealousy. My mate moved into a new build in Cheshire. He had a An Audi Q7 and a nice shiny white VW Van. However, the stuck up pillock across the way from him complained to the site office. My mate soon had a letter from the House builders lawyer insisting he removed his commercial vehicle from the estate. He had to go out and buy a VW window van version and ordred it in black. Best part was, the people who complained had two rusty old heaps that looked a bluddy mess.

So with all these new home covenants, where are we all going to park one day?. We cannot buy a new build because they all have the same restrictive covenants on them.

TM


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

Peribro has the answer, covenants run with the land, and yes when you have the property transferred to you, you also sign that you will abide by the covenants. If you do not, you are in breach and Court action could follow. I also believe that the letter your friend has received is what is called "a frightener", whether the neighbour would take any further action remains to be seen, so to speak. 

If, as is said, the covenant does not restrict parking of certain vehicles, it states what sort of vehicles ARE ALLOWED TO BE PARKED. Much different from a covenant restricting parking of a certain type of vehicle, which is usually the case. BUT as Westkirkby has pointed out, a motorhome whilst it is covered by the road fund licence, can be parked on any public highway, as long as it is not breaching any parking restrictions, which would be enforceable by the Council/police, so yes, it can quite rightly be parked on the roadside, whether outside your friends own home, or that of their neighbour. Obviously, if the road has yellow lines or parking restrictions this would not be possible, well it would but then your friend would run the risk of getting parking fines.

The covenant was put in the original legal documents, for the enjoyment of what would appear to be a quiet cul de sac of only 14 properties.

Jenny


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

I posted a link to some case law about this on another thread. It related to a case where the original covenant was put in place by the developer but the developer subsequently went out of business.
This particular case related to needing the developers permission to make alterations to the property but the principle in law is there.
As has been said it depends on the exact wording of the covenant but I would not assume that a solicitor understands the issue - I found this out when my daughter was buying a house, her solicitor had to go and read up on this point of law even though he specialises in property law!

Bottom line - look carefully at the deeds and the wording of the original covenant before deciding what to do next

Chris

extract from the legal advice relating to the case:
"If the covenant requires the consent of a company that has been dissolved, what then? The 2004 case of Crest Nicholson Residential (South) Ltd v McAllister, confirms that if a covenant requires the consent of a dissolved company then effectively the covenant is discharged. You can check the current status of any company by having a look at the Companies House website at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ , but it is important to ascertain whether the company has been dissolved or whether just its name has changed."


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I would consider parking it on the road. Then I would tell all your neighbors that you are sorry that you have to do this because Mr X has complained about it being on your drive.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*see here*

See Here for a good set of replies


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*replies and covenants*

More Here

and here

Even more

and another

yet more still

More troublesand yet more

Simply type covenants into the MHF Forum Search


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

The covenants on new build properties that i have purchased in the past have only been enforcable for ten years by the original developer

the last home we had we put a caravan on the drive to the anoyanvce of our neighbour but it was inside the building line and was ok.


Dave p


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## philsil (Jul 24, 2007)

As I understand European law does not define a motorhome as a caravan and you can therefore muddy the waters with definitions


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## tony645 (Sep 26, 2010)

I can see both sides to this argument, but not in this particular case, the van in question appears to be shorter than my lwb transit I use for work and I`m sure its a lot prettier, however if I lived on a small cul-de-sac I would`nt be happy if someone parked a mh the size of mine on their driveway.
About 20 years ago, we bought a house on a cul-de-sac, it was new and built to our spec. we bought the largest plot at the bottom 
so that we could accomodate all our vehicles on the driveway, all the other purchasers had bungalows built with a single garage and room for just one car on the drive. most of them had 2 or 3 cars and obviously used the garage for their junk etc. parking was a nightmare.
In the next couple of years we are looking at downsizing our house and one of the considerations will be , can we park the mh there?
I`v seem some big mh`s tucked up the side of houses on estates and they look ok but i`ve also seen mh`s, boats and caravans on driveways at the front of houses in full view of all the neighbours, blocking their views etc and they dont.
Also as far as parking it on the road, I`d be careful about that, we used to own a car hire company and on collecting returned cars often had no room at the depot for them, so we would park them up in nice quiet streets, you would`nt believe the number of times the police would call and ask us to move them because someone had complained it was causing an obstruction, they never were but the people always think they own the road outside their own house, and the police hadnt physically checked, but we did always shift them to avoid them being damaged.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

philsil said:


> As I understand European law does not define a motorhome as a caravan and you can therefore muddy the waters with definitions


There's no such thing as European law, only national transposition of EU Directives and Regulations. In the UK, a motorhome is definitely captured by the legal definition of caravan - under section 29 (1) of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 a caravan is defined as

_"... any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being
moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on
a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted but does not
include:
a) Any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway
system, or

b) Any tent."_

The OP's mate needs to see a solicitor regards enforceability of the covenant rather than relying on internet opinions. I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear the outcome.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Sounds like*



tony645 said:


> I can see both sides to this argument, but not in this particular case, the van in question appears to be shorter than my lwb transit I use for work and I`m sure its a lot prettier, however if I lived on a small cul-de-sac I would`nt be happy if someone parked a mh the size of mine on their driveway.
> About 20 years ago, we bought a house on a cul-de-sac, it was new and built to our spec. we bought the largest plot at the bottom
> so that we could accomodate all our vehicles on the driveway, all the other purchasers had bungalows built with a single garage and room for just one car on the drive. most of them had 2 or 3 cars and obviously used the garage for their junk etc. parking was a nightmare.
> In the next couple of years we are looking at downsizing our house and one of the considerations will be , can we park the mh there?
> ...


That sounds just like the situation we have.

We have a large plot, lots of parking and we almost always park everything on our property.

But, the parking situation for the bungalows that surround us can be a bit tricky to say the least.

Very poor planning and arrangements by the house builders.


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## JohnGun (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Sounds like*



teemyob said:


> tony645 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see both sides to this
> ...


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Is there something peculiarly outstanding about the visibility of Rimor NG5's

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-74191-covenants.html

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-65440-covenants.html

Or could there be some link between these posts?


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## Markt500 (Mar 23, 2010)

I would really speak to a solicitor who specialises in covenants. My dad was recently applying for planning permission for a customer, however there was a covenant on loft conversions in this snobby estate. The residents were all keen to remind everyone of the covenant when the application was put in, however the solicitor managed to get the covenant lifted/ nullified for something like £600, allowing the work to go ahead

Surprising how many of the neighbours have now put in permission themselves after the event! Let me know if you want me to get the solicitors details....


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

paul if your friend has the room for his mh and a hedge, grow a hedge.


Dave p


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## Hymervanman (Aug 20, 2010)

It may be worth pointing out to the solicitor that the motorhome is actually classed as a PHGV- private hgv and is therefore covered by the trade van definition????


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## The-Clangers (Sep 18, 2009)

I would check to see what the vehicle is classed as on the V5, as it may not have been changed over on conversion and is classed as a light goods vehicle.

David


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

Having read all these threads, I would just like to mention, that there are of course covenants that needs consents, ie usually implemented by the builder/developer ie their consent would be required to make changes and restrictive covenants, which are entirely different. They are as implied restrictions and are usually shown on the official copies of the registry, copies of which can be obtained from the appropriate Land Registry which services the area in which the property is.

Jenny


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## Marrabone (Apr 8, 2010)

They are probably just calling your bluff, l doubt they'd be willing to shell out lots of cash on a court case. Maybe you should just wait and see, you could always move it before the case came to court and then they'd be liable for their own costs.

I'm not an expert, l may be wrong, but these are my thoughts on the subject.


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Sounds like*



JohnGun said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > tony645 said:
> ...


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

When we brought our house in 2009 there was a restrictive covenant regarding caravans and commercial vehicle even though the development was for two properties. Fortunately we had a good solicitor, no motorhome, no purchase, however, the permission is only for a motorhome.

The bank was foreclosing on the developer we were purchasing from, we brought the property part finished and lived in the motorhome on site. We contact the relevant authorities in order to pay our council tax they informed us ' we are unable to value the motorhome for council tax banding as it mobile under it own power you can move of site at any period or time, however, if it was a static or caravan we could band it.

As far as these authorities are concerned there is a significant difference between a motorhome and caravan. I would drive it around the block once a week.


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

When I was having problems with the neighbours regarding the parking of my motorhome at the side of my house, my solicitor tried to find who was holding the covernant that said, 'no homes on wheels' . She had no success so she advised me to take out insurance against the covernant holder turning up. This cost me in the region of £800.

One of my daughters did the same regarding a piece of land at the side of her property that had no title deeds. It is now a lovely part of her garden.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Insurance plan*

Insurance.

Ask the complainers have they watched the devastation in Japan on the TV, or any of the rest of the misery. Ask them to think again about their own troubles.

Then, I would not bother with Covenant Insurance. I would rather buy a huge crappy, rusty scruffy panel van that just about had an MOT. Insure it for TPF&T and dump it in the most awkward position outside the complainers house.

TM


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## JohnGun (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Sounds like*



richardjames said:


> JohnGun said:
> 
> 
> > teemyob said:
> ...


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

The Land Tribunal - www.landstribunal.gov.uk - deals with cases like this and they have a case study databae.

Many years ago we bought our first house with a 'no fences over 3 foot high' covenant.
The fences on that estate are now large, thick and plentiful.

If in doubt see a Solicitor.


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## wasfitonce (Apr 27, 2009)

*Motorhome/Covenant*

   

Thanks everybody for your advise regarding the covenant. I think our freinds have decided to write to the solicitor and tell them that they are in deed going to remove it from their drive and are GOING TO PARK IT ON THE ROAD OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE, which will look worst than on the drive.

Will let you know what the solicitor and neibours have to say about that,

Regards and thanks

Paul


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## Westkirby01 (Jan 25, 2009)

Will you inform them that they are:-

1. Infringing your human rights. 

2. Picking on you because of your nationality.

3. Your ethnic backgound is being challenged as you are not from a local proximity.

4. They are discriminating against your disablity (don't tell them what it is, glasses, dentures etc)

Dont forget to sign xxxxxx MGP

(Had a lot of trouble with someone and then replied and signed MGP. All stopped. Didn't tell them that MGP means Member of the Genereal Public).

Hope all works out

Regards


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

Slightly off-topic - we have a neighbour who moans about parking, so another neighbour parked an old but legal van outside their house for about two weeks - long enough for the moaner to think about it - no problem since!!


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

What hasn't been said in this thread is if there have been any previous discussions on this case. Have the neighbours complained in person? Has anything been said before the letter appeared? Have there been any reasons for upsetting the neighbours such that they wanted to get back at your friends?

Sometimes, threats of legal action can be made to disappear by engaging in sensible discussion.

Gerald


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Remember too that when you come to sell your house the last thing you want to declare is having had a neighbour dispute.


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## Westkirby01 (Jan 25, 2009)

pippin said:


> Remember too that when you come to sell your house the last thing you want to declare is having had a neighbour dispute.


If you're not speaking to the neighbour, does that count as dispute?


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

That depends upon the tone of voice used when not speaking to them.


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## CliffyP (Dec 19, 2008)

Is it not taxed PLG (private light goods) as a car, its a Camping Car,its a private vehicle not a commercial or HGV, nor is it a caravan. Its about interpretation. MPV, Estate etc etc are all variants of a car  

I would call their bluff :wink: , and ask them to specify what catagory they think you vehicle falls into.


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## Remus (Feb 10, 2011)

I've heard similar arguments on other forums. I'm not a legal bod but it seems that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to overturn or even change a covenant. Everyone covered by a covenant must have agreed to the covenant when they bought their house as the covenant will be on their deeds. It does not matter who put the covenant on - or when. I lived in a house with a covenant that was over 100 years old, the original covenant maker was long since dead - but the covenant stood (and still does as far as I know). Without knowing the exact wording of the covenant it's difficult to comment further but I would recommend a thorough scrutiny of the house deeds. If there's nothing in there then there will be room for manoeuvre. Also, it may be that the covenant only applies to some properties and not others. The complainers may be wrongly assuming that a covenant on their deeds is also on the deeds of other properties in the same area.


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

I live on an estate which is 11 years old and there is a covenant covering caravans and I approached the builders, who have been gobbled up by a bigger fish, refused point blank to remove the covenant. I park my MH on the drive with, so far, no problems. There are caravans and other MHs on the same site.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*been there*



geraldandannie said:


> What hasn't been said in this thread is if there have been any previous discussions on this case. Have the neighbours complained in person? Has anything been said before the letter appeared? Have there been any reasons for upsetting the neighbours such that they wanted to get back at your friends?
> 
> Sometimes, threats of legal action can be made to disappear by engaging in sensible discussion.
> 
> Gerald


"Sometimes, threats of legal action can be made to disappear by engaging in sensible discussion"

Been there Gerald.

My Neighbours had a motorhome, then a caravan. Then sold and had to do without.

Problems started, only when we got a motorhome. Very much the green eyed monster and do as I say not as I do (or rather, did).

Tried every avenue of diplomacy, explanation and we began to look silly in the end.

As I said, I cannot comprehend why people try to be so vindictive and try to dictate to people what they can and cannot do. So many bad things going on in the world and yet people (often with nothing better to do) try to make peoples life a misery.

I have and still do come across so many of these situations all the time. And rarely does the plaintif have any real grounds for complaint. Those that do tend to have a valid case, often are quite happy to just get on with their lives.

TM


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## Twilight (Aug 20, 2009)

Interesting post as when we get our new M/H in April we will be keeping it on our drive...our development is of 35 houses now 25 years old...ours states...

No boat/trailer/caravan shall be allowed top reamin on the property or any part of the estate.

Well as my hubby says....its none of the above....now if it had read maybe motorcaravan then maybe we might question it....but to us its a motorhome


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## thegamwellsmythes (Jul 29, 2008)

Your friends could certainly leave it on the drive until the neighbour has incurred significant legal costs prior to any court case and then voluntarily move it.

I'm no expert but I would think the case would then die along with any claim from the neighbours for costs from your friends.

This might leave them satisfyingly out of pocket.

Your friends would obvously need to find somewhere to keep it though, so not perfect.

The solution of parking it on the road might not work as the covenant may apply to the roads on the small estate. The estate may also be unadopted /private roads which may have seperate covenants signed upto by the residents. Careful here.

I think we'd all be interested to find out how this progresses for our own potential future interests.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

The original posters can probably get free legal advice via their home or vehicle insurers .Most companies seem to offer this service if you look at the policy.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Maybe the neighbours have a valid reason for not wanting it outside there house .It maybe outside their window or anything .Seems like they have been hung drawn and quartered to me .If my neighbours parked a motorhome on their drive the same as our motorhome I wouldnt be happy.
Bri


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thats no excuse Bri.
Us motorhome types LIKE looking at our motorhomes even if the neighbours don't.
You don't buy the view when you buy a house. My neighbour tried to pull this one and our local Mayor soon put her right. 
Because she complained about having to look out at any visiting motorhomes, I have my friends 34ft. Bayliner boat parked on my land in her view for the past 4 years just to prove a point.

It would have been so easy to have a chat and negotiate but it escalated to a war in days. Now she has many problems with the neighbours.

Ray.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

I dont think you can state that in every instance that to be the case. Of course people buy houses for the view "location location location"springs to mind.Our neighbours drive runs directly in front of our window I wouldnt dream of blocking his view and he wouldnt dream of blocking ours.We all have to give and take as a ardent motorhomer myself would completley accept peoples objections to a motorhome parked on my drive so much so I pay £400 to park it on an official site
Bri


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

When I lost my storage for my 8.2 metre tag axle van, I had no choice but to put it on my driveway.

Before I had to move it, I went round my neighbours and asked how they felt about it. Nobody objected.

I would much prefer to have it in storage as any local villains can see when we are on holiday in it now. There is nothing suitable (because of its length) within a reasonable travelling distance.

There is a covenant forbidding caravans, boats and trailers, so I have to be very nice to my neighbours.  

As somebody else has pointed out, certain restrictions have already been flouted (like putting up fences, walls etc.) so I might be lucky and be allowed to keep it there. It is a worry though.


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

747,

You have nothing to worry about, a Motorhome is not a boat, caravan or trailer, all of which are vehicles that have to be towed.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

brianamelia said:


> I dont think you can state that in every instance that to be the case. Of course people buy houses for the view "location location location"springs to mind.Our neighbours drive runs directly in front of our window I wouldnt dream of blocking his view and he wouldnt dream of blocking ours.We all have to give and take as a ardent motorhomer myself would completley accept peoples objections to a motorhome parked on my drive so much so I pay £400 to park it on an official site
> Bri


I guess you might have a point if we hadn't bought the adjoining land 14 years ago and made a gravel hardstanding to accommodate up to 20 RVs. In effect only two or three have ever been parked for short periods.

The Parisienne neighbour bought 3 years ago and promptly tried to change the way things had been for 11 years previously. 
She complained about our outside lights, campers, caravans, grass mowing, dogs wandering and even other neighbours playing 'boules' up the lane. She and her guests drive all over my land but if one of my visitors puts a wheel on her gravel, she is out the window screaming.

You might have gathered we have a 'nut' for a neighbour. But we just put up with her and ignore her rantings as well as the odd calls at 3 am.

Ray.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Under the 1960 Act of parliament relating to Caravans and Sites, it is.

That could go against all of us. The problem is that it would have to be a High Court judgement to clarify that. if I had been the person who won 17.5 million on the Lottery last week, I would have gone for it. I only won £83 so I apologise. You are on your own. 8O


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

747 said:


> Under the 1960 Act of parliament relating to Caravans and Sites, it is.


I am not sure that this is correct. Normally a Covenant attempts to be more specific about the meaning of a caravan by including words such as any vehicle converted for habitation.

In order for a legal definition to apply the wording of the covenant would have to specify that caravans within the meaning of the 1960 Act are prohibited. Otherwise a general meaning of caravan would apply and that does not include motorhomes.

I am surprised that nobody has sought clarification from the Legal Department of the Caravan or CCC Clubs. A phonecall would be a useful starting point.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

brianamelia said:


> I dont think you can state that in every instance that to be the case. Of course people buy houses for the view "location location location"springs to mind.Our neighbours drive runs directly in front of our window I wouldnt dream of blocking his view and he wouldnt dream of blocking ours.We all have to give and take as a ardent motorhomer myself would completley accept peoples objections to a motorhome parked on my drive so much so I pay £400 to park it on an official site
> Bri


You might "buy FOR the view" but you cannot "buy THE view" that is a principle that has been established in law.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Stanner said:


> brianamelia said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think you can state that in every instance that to be the case. Of course people buy houses for the view "location location location"springs to mind.Our neighbours drive runs directly in front of our window I wouldnt dream of blocking his view and he wouldnt dream of blocking ours.We all have to give and take as a ardent motorhomer myself would completley accept peoples objections to a motorhome parked on my drive so much so I pay £400 to park it on an official site
> ...


That is correct but it is hardly good neighbourly practice. Imagine if you paid £100k over the odds for a view and then somebody parks a motorhome in front of your window. How would you feel? I have seen this happen and the property owner understandably was not amused.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

gelathae said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > brianamelia said:
> ...


I agree it wouldn't be neighbourly, but I wasn't referring simply to motorhome parking but to the principle in general.

As for anybody paying £100k over the odds for something as transient (and unownable) as a view....................................:roll:


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Stanner said:


> brianamelia said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think you can state that in every instance that to be the case. Of course people buy houses for the view "location location location"springs to mind.Our neighbours drive runs directly in front of our window I wouldnt dream of blocking his view and he wouldnt dream of blocking ours.We all have to give and take as a ardent motorhomer myself would completley accept peoples objections to a motorhome parked on my drive so much so I pay £400 to park it on an official site
> ...


Of course you carnt buy a view but how many places have you been and commented how beautiful the view is .Its a very important part of life and one which we all like to have .How Many sites places have you visited that you would not have if they hadnt a view
Bri


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

When a neighbour complained about my brother in laws planning application to have a bungalow built on a plot he had owned for over 20 years, the application failed.
He, my brother in law had a container parked along the boundary.

I think it is still there after ten years.


Dave p


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> When a neighbour complained about my brother in laws planning application to have a bungalow built on a plot he had owned for over 20 years, the application failed.
> He, my brother in law had a container parked along the boundary.
> 
> I think it is still there after ten years.
> ...


Not really sure what that proves Dave
Bri


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

brianamelia said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > brianamelia said:
> ...


I quite agree, I like a nice view as much as anybody - but would you "pay £100k over the odds" for something you couldn't ever be sure of keeping? That was my point.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Stanner said:


> brianamelia said:
> 
> 
> > Stanner said:
> ...


I dont think This post is about the price its about being fair to each other and respecting other peoples views. Moveable obstructions put in places that effect others lives in my opinion can be unfair and avoidable.
Bri


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

brianamelia said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > brianamelia said:
> ...


I didn't raise the matter of paying for a view, just pointed out that you can pay for it, but you can't buy it, or own it.

And if everybody WAS neighbourly, we wouldn't have threads like this.


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## jonpspencer (Feb 23, 2012)

*Parking a Motorhome on your drive.*

We have had Caravans for over 20yrs and more recently a Motorhome. Personally, I would & have, never parked our Caravan or Motorhome on our drive as I would not like one next to my house and therefore, the same rule must apply to me. It depends on your area, how big your drive is and if it would blight some ones view from their property.
If I had a large house with a large secluded drive, then I might decide its OK to park my Motorhome on my drive. This is my personal view.
In answer some of the legal points above, a Motorhome is a vehicle as it is Taxed as a Motorised Vehicle, a Caravan does not have a Taxation Class and is not therefore a vehicle. I doubt very much if putting stickers on the Motorhome would work as this is an obvious deception and courts dont take too kindly to deceptions or manipulations of the law. The Covenant could be valid even though the company is no longer in existence as it was designed to protect those 14 dwellings, it might take a Legal Ruling to declare the Covenant invalid? You can easily argue the fact that it is NOT a large Motorhome by giving the dimensions of a few LARGE MOTORHOMES, yours in fact is a SMALL MOTORHOME! You could also take the measurements of your vehicle and compare them to some large vehicles like a Rolls Royce, Hummer etc. You could also argue that as your vehicle is Taxed as a Private Motorvehicle(PLG?) you are entitled to park it on the road outside your house(or his) so there would be little gain in enforcing the Covenant.
Might I suggest that you speak with your neighbours and see if they would meet with you without things getting personal with the view to disgussing the situation and seeing if they are prepared to accept anything i.e. Motorhome Cover, Planting Shrubbery etc. You can always withdrawer at any point to seek legal advice. Finally, the wording of the Covenant is probably your only option, check the wording to see if there are any errors etc. However, try and see things from your neighbours point of view too. It obviously has a great effect on them to take such action in the first place, unless of course they are the ones being totally unreasonable? 
Use some of the above if you have to and Im sure it will be dropped as they will need deep pockets to answer all of those points in law.
Good luck and keep records of any dates & dialogue you have with your neighbours etc.
Jon...


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Jon,
look at the date of the op.


dave p


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Sorry to be pedantic BUT.....

A caravan most certainly IS (by legal definition) a "vehicle"

BUT

It is NOT a "mechanically propelled" vehicle 

Thats why you can be prosecuted for excess speed in a car (mechanically propelled vehicle) but you CANNOT be prosecuted for excess speed (i.e over 30mph on a restricted road) if you are riding a bike 'cos its NOT a "mechanically propelled" vehicle. 

There is however the offence of "Wanton and furious riding" though!!! and yes you are correct, it dates back to the time of 'orses!!!

If you ever get a summons for excess speed (rather than a fixed penalty notice) it will say that at such and such a time on such and such a date you drove a "mechanically propelled vehicle namely a (car, motorcycle, etc) on a road called ????? at a speed of xx mph that being in excess of that permitted, namely XXXX mph"

Yes it seems daft but thats how it is !!!


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## Pet12 (Oct 10, 2011)

Hi Paul & Ann
I also have Covenant on my property, ours is a corner property so I made a run in round the side only for a couple round. The side to complain to the local council who said it was not their concern, but I moved it to the front drive where up to now I have had no complaints, that was 4 years ago, just a point on your friends covenant mine reads no llarge vans or caravans to parked visible from any road on the estate, so if your friends is the same wording parking on the road is a no no, I hope it is resolved ok but some people won't live & let live. Pete


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## lesanne (May 1, 2008)

Had a problem when ist bought van with this ,,,so being Mr nice ,promptly removed van so as not to cause neighbourly conflick parked van on road ,no probs for me ,,but neighbour could only get into his drive from one way ,and caused a great prob getting out ,soon resolved amicably ,,,them having good access again ,me ,the nice guy ,on my drive well away from their entrance ...


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Pet12 said:


> mine reads no llarge vans or caravans to parked visible from any road on the estate, so if your friends is the same wording parking on the road is a no no,


Visible FROM the road is not the same as visible ON the road.

The covenant cannot (SFAIK) apply to a public road, if it were to no vans could enter the estate, so no deliveries whatsoever. :?


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## teal (Feb 23, 2009)

When we looked at our covenants it said "no static homes to be on property". Then was told that after 20 years covenants are not in force.


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