# buying a MH with an oil leak?



## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Some kind soul just said nobody can answer because I put it in the 'ask a trader' so here goes again.... It passed the MOT btw

Hello 

We have had an inspection on a 'new to us' MH and it has a 'long standing' oil leak. 

MACIC inspectors recommended we ask the dealer to investigate this but the dealer says it's not a new vehicle and if there is a problem in future, it will be covered under warranty. 

Is this acceptable practice? We love the 'van other than this. 

Problem is, we are trading in a vehicle that we know is mechanically sound so bit worried. 

Advice please? 

Thank you 

Debs


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Hi Debs,

I would be very wary of that vehicle. You don't know if the previous owner had kept a check on the oil level in the past and it might have been driven with a too little oil in the sump ( I presume it is an engine oil leak) which could be the cause of very expensive repairs in the future.

There are so many get out clauses in those warranties I would not risk it. Don't think much of the dealer either, he is obviously trying to get rid of the vehicle without concerning himself about an obvious fault.

Keep looking, there will be another good one out there somewhere.

Remember the old saying - act in haste, repent at leisure!


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Debs,

You know my answer to this, steer well clear


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

From Debs post it seems she has already bought the van.

Difficult to make a judgement in reality. I know where Javea is coming from but you don't give us much to work on or diagnose what might be the problem.

Where is the leak? Thats the first and very important bit of info needed.
If it is some very inacessable part of the engine you can understand the previous owner just keep topping up the level as it was probably cheaper than having it repaired.
If it is coming from an obvious and easy place to rectify then again why?
If it's from the gearbox then this could cause serious problems soon. This leak must be rectified and the box refilled with synthetic G/box oil.

More info please Debs.

Ray.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Be wary, is the MH being offered with a warranty type insurance? 
if so the cost of a new oil seal may be covered but would the full labour cost of replacing it be? A rear crankshaft oil seal replacement for example would be very expensive and there could be contamination of the clutch. Have you any details of where the leak is suspected to be coming from?

It is simple for the dealer to say it is not a new vehicle and if it is a problem in the future then it will be covered - but will it?

Why go to the expense of having the vehicle inspection and then not acting on its findings? It is of course your shout and you may feel that even with this leak it is a good deal.

The old adage "If in doubt do nowt" comes to mind.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Hello again
This is what it said:
'* There is an oil leak on the engine upper side which should be investigated.'
plus many other things that I'm not worried about as it said this:
'This Hymer comes across as a used but cared for example.'

Hopefully, I have attached the pics...any clues anyone clever out there?? Well actually I know there are some amazing clever people out there...

Also, We have obviously paid a deposit!! rights anyone???? 

I would have thought a major thing like an engine oil leak might allow us our deposit back, but probably not without a fight... boo

Could do with someone saying, looks great to me! LOL
Debs

Thank you so much 

:roll:  :?:


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

*another photo*

Thanks for the replies

another photo

Debs


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

raynipper said:


> From Debs post it seems she has already bought the van.


Hi Debs

I hope you haven't finally committed yourselves yet.

_(This is not a dig at you, but I do wonder why so many members do something - then come on the forum afterwards and ask if it was a wise move. :roll:

Surely the wisest move would be to ask on the forum first - since one assumes they value the advice given on here, or they wouldn't ask at all.

Seems a curious way of doing things to me! :roll: )_

Hope you get it sorted, one way or another - but I would certainly not want to sign on the dotted line until the leak had been fixed.

This is one advantage in buying from a dealer. No reputable one would sell a van with an obvious oil leak, so he would expect to have to fix it anyway - whether it's you or someone else who buys the van.

No reason therefore why he shouldn't fix it before you sign the contract . . . and if he refuses I would be out of the door before he finished speaking!

Hope this helps

Dave


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Has she bought the van? She says she *IS* trading in a new vehicle. Assuming she does not own it there are a number of issues to consider.

Where is the oil coming from?

How serious is the leak? Many vehicles seap oil some from easily repairable parts of the vehicle such as CV joints or even sump bolts can need tightening. On the other hand some leaks can be serious and expensive to repair.

Has the vehicle a service record?

When she says long standing oil leak what exactly does she mean and how does she know?

Can the dealer be serious when he says any future problems can be covered by warranty? What warranty?

If the problem has been diagnosed should not the warranty come into play immediately? Normally a reputable dealer will put right any diagnosed problems prior to sale.

As others have said a bit more information might help produce a more helpful response.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

photos, too big so will have to go one by one


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

another


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

another

i have no idea if this is the right photo, I'm engine blind now!

I did come to the forum before we had the inspection for advice, unfortunately the post was deleted.

Because the dealer was happy to have the inspection I thought he would be reasonable about the findings, particularly something as big as an oil leak, he has a workshop on site for goodness sake.

Debs

OMG here we go again....


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

I think I'm answering everything asked:

Yes we are trading in a vehicle 2 years newer than the one we are buying.

We haven't parted with any cash other than the deposit, we asked if we could have the inspection done when we did the deal.

As I said before, my posting was lost in the recent 'glitch in the matrix' during server maintenance.

I paid 300 quid for a comprehensive report especially because my husband and I are not gifted in the field of practical stuff, although we recognised the habitation stuff, but was especially needing a mechanical perspective.

I suppose I expected the recommendations to be considered by the dealer. He said, I haven't seen your van yet. True, but we know that anything needed doing has been done and have recently spent quite a bit of cash on it to make sure it is right before we sell it.

An 'a class' is the dream and we are about to celebrate 25 happy years married! 

It is a very clean vehicle other than the obvious, and we would be very happy to continue with the purchase if the oil leak was further investigated and we knew what we were taking on.

If I have missed any answers, please pm me or ask again.

Thank you 

Debs


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

So the dealer is proposing to sell you a vehicle in the knowledge that a known fault exists and is relying on an insurance to pay for the repair. This seems to me to be potentially shady practice; the dealer could in fact be defrauding the insurance company. These policies are usually intended to come into play for faults that emerge AFTER sale not before.

I would ask the dealer to either return your deposit or do the repair. Before asking establish your rights from Trading Standards. You could even speak to the insurance company or threaten to speak to them if the dealer fails to play ball. If it was me I would not buy the vehicle.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

LunarCampingQueen said:


> I did come to the forum before we had the inspection for advice, unfortunately the post was deleted.


As I said Debs, it was not a dig at you - just a general observation.

Judging from the photos you are not as deeply in the mire as some have been, when the only truthful reply would have been, _"Bloody idiot - why the heck didn't you ask us first?"_ 8O

In fact, you may not be in the mire at all. :wink:



LunarCampingQueen said:


> Because the dealer was happy to have the inspection I thought he would be reasonable about the findings, particularly something as big as an oil leak, he has a workshop on site for goodness sake.


It's difficult to judge from the photos, but it doesn't look too serious to me, or very expensive to fix.

I would be inclined to say to the dealer something like, _"Thanks for the reassurance about future repairs, but it obviously _*is*_ going to be an ongoing problem, so will you please mend it before I take possession. It's obvious I shall definitely be coming back to claim under the warranty, and I would rather avoid the inconvenience and would like to start using the van straight away without any reliability worries."_

If he doesn't respond to an approach like that I wouldn't want to deal with him, and would start looking for legal advice if you are already committed.

If he's any sort of dealer he will play the game when faced with such a request.

Dave  

P.S. Just saw Gelathae's advice. We obviously think alike. :wink:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

The Dealer is :?: 

tony


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Zeb, what's happened to your avatar.

tony


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Dear Dave

I'm not offended, honest! I know what you are saying.

Thanks for your lovely reply.

My hubby is contacting the inspectors for their perspective, I will let him know what everyone has said and hopefully, he can have a word with the dealer again. We were supposed to be picking it up today 

As I said, we would be happy if we had a prognosis, don't think it is much to ask really from the dealer.

I will call trading standards for little chat too. I would have thought the fact that we have a comprehensive inspection report and are only asking for (as you said) the stuff the warranty would cover to be done before hand, we would have a case for refund if he doesn't want to help us out.

Boo to bad service

I think it must be me!!
Debs


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Let's give him a chance to put it right before we name and shame! 

:wink: 

sometimes they come up trumps! glass half full and all that!!

and what's happened to your avatar?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

GEMMY said:


> Zeb, what's happened to your avatar.
> tony


Bloody spring fell off, didn't it.

Shot me into space it did. 8O

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

LunarCampingQueen said:


> I think I'm answering everything asked:
> 
> Yes we are trading in a vehicle 2 years newer than the one we are buying.
> 
> ...


Debs, Perhaps the first step is to get the dealer to confirm the deal as it stands, i.e. he sees your MH and agrees a firm trade in so that you have the cost to change with an allowance for the oil leak. You could be having all this worry and in adddition the dealer may on inspection try to knock you down on the trade in - it happens even though you have prepared it for sale.

Even though this A class is your dream there will always be others. If the dealer is not willing to even investigate where the leak is coming from then how can you have confidence in future dealings. It may be something very simple like a leaking oil pressure switch or something more sinister.

Finally I have no confidence at all in the oil leak being covered by an insurance type warranty, especially as it is present at time of sale. These warranty insurance type things are 'Breakdown' warranties with a multitude of excemptions such as fair wear and tear. Ray


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## craigrogers (Oct 30, 2011)

To be honest, if he wants the sale (at the moment, what dealer doesn't) he will fix it.

With oil, it's very difficult to tell where a leak comes from, however, this looks like a leak under pressure rather than a drip.

As most of it is toward the top of the engine, it seems like it could be just a rocker cover gasket that needs replacing. However, it could also be coming from the head gasket but not as likely as with that much blowing out you'd notice it when driving.

The only thing that concerns me is that he's mentioning the warranty fixing it. Basically, he's not willing to pay for it and hope that the warranty he sells you will. It could be that he already knows it's a big job therefore not willing.

Some warranties might have a get out clause that states if it was there when you bought it, then it's not covered. A quick inspection would highlight this.

Just be very careful.


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## aircool (Jul 13, 2009)

Sprinter base chassis?

Looks just like a boost leak (or crack in mani/hose) from a hose combined with the EGR allowing oil/diesel out and then settling (as it looks sprayed from the images).

Just a theory from a general DERV driving point of view


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

The warranty we had only fixed things that broke, not leaks or worn parts. As pointed out if it was there when you bought it then they wont cover that. 

They also only pay a basic hourly rate of around £50 so if you took it to Fiat then they will be in the £80 hour area. 

Also a lot of garages will not get involved with warranties from insurance as they have to keep chasing the money. I had to pay the garage then reclaim the money myself. 

If he will not fix it walk away plenty more good vans out there. Just ask on the forum if anybody is selling one you never know what will come up. 

Andy


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm a little shocked at the price of an inspection - £300 seems such a huge amount of money when you are already paying a "dealer premium" for purchasing from a main dealer.

The dealer should agree to fix the oil leak before you purchase the vehicle he should *not* expect the insurance backed warranty to pay for the repair. Furthermore they will not cover any pre-existing faults so this oil leak will not be covered. Even if you pretend it is a new occurrence it is clear from the inspection and the photos you have posted that the leak is long standing.

A friend of mine had an oil leak on a VW Golf. His RAC warranty wouldn't cover it because it was "pre-existing" and he spent over £2,000 trying to uncover the fault from rocker gasket, manifolds and eventually turned out to be the dreaded head gasket caused by someone re-using the head bolts from an earlier repair.

You asked "buying a motorhome with an oil leak" well the answer is an unequivocal NO. You should not buy a motorhome with an oil leak, it defeats the whole object of buying from a main dealer and at the very least I would expect it to be fixed or heavily discounted.

My advice. Don't buy the vehicle. You are clearly buying with your heart and not your head which is the worst possible decision you could make and can only end one way. This van will cost you money.

What is the make and model of what you're looking for? I'm sure we can find you a better, cheaper example without this leak.


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

The vast majority of 15 to 20 k motorhomes i looked at had little or no service history and oil leaks and i ve long since known unchanged oil in a diesel enginge makes it s pressence known.... The fact it s been mentioned the boost pipe looks suspect suggests the turbo seels might be suspect and the way to test is to leave it on tickover 10 minutes on my car but not sure if that applies here...
(i ve known a simple sticking recirculation valve be the cause)

Everything points to time when the van cant be used and off the road to be fixed and there s then the question will the dealer honnour the waranty and pick the tab up etcc.....

Walk away from it as i did many ...and be thankfull the £300 highlighted a problem and dont throw good money after bad...

Its a good time to be negotiating a good deal on a good van and there are many more to be had...


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Trading standards say we are bound to contract as we paid deposit, however the Sale of Goods Act 1979 says it should be satisfactory quality (detailing not as having minor faults) so advised not to part with the rest of the money and negotiate with dealer to inspect and repair.

If he doesn't and we have to take it away, he is immediately in breach of contract (an engine oil leak is deemed serious fault) and we should take it to nearest Mercedes workshop and one inspected, reject the goods as unsatisfactory standard...and he is liable for repair etc. 

The thing about not seeing our MH isn't relevant other than if he isn't happy with it then he can reject and we both in breach then and I can take my refund. So let's hope he either sorts the leak out or doesn't like ours! 

So if you want to buy, the moral of the story, is get the inspection done before you pay a deposit, or agree more than verbally that if the inspection is unsatisfactory, what will happen. I'm not sure what the conversation was exactly on this point as hubby is at work.

Great!

Funny thing is, we only had the inspection so we could know what we would have to do in the future, not to mess about with the deal. No intention at all. 



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It may be simple to fix (pipe, rocker cover), if so why won't the dealer do it.

On the other hand, although it's hard to tell, looking at photographs but it might be from the cylinder head which is probably not a disaster but will be more costly and if it is the head I wonder what caused it.

I would want it fixed and guaranteed to remain fixed.

Then there is the concern as to whether the oil level has always been maintained, Alan.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Not much help to you now Debs, but the first thing I did when buying our first van was to find a reliable local dealer.

Then when we found a van we liked I asked him if he would give me "First refusal" for a week while I got things sorted out, and offered a deposit to show good faith, but to be fully returnable within the specified week.

If he had another customer within the week (_OK - I was trusting him here_ :roll: ) I agreed to either finalise or cancel the deal on the spot.

He wouldn't take the deposit, held the van for a week, and didn't phone me in the meantime with another real or fictitious buyer. We went ahead with the deal and wouldn't think of going to any other dealer now.

To me this is the whole point of using a dealer. Not the cheapest way to buy, but it _*should *_be the safest and bring with it the least amount of hassle.

Good luck

Dave 

Cotswold Motor Caravans, near Staverton Airport, Gloucester . . . before you ask!


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

>> Cotswold Motor Caravans, near Staverton Airport, Gloucester . . . before you ask!

YES! - one of the finest in the business is Frank. Our family have consistently bought from him and will again.

LunarCampingqueen - you have a PM.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

If you're having this much hassle before you've even bought the van think how much worse it could get when you own it.
Sounds like a real cowboy dealer to me!

WALK AWAY, WALK AWAY WALK AWAY!!


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

How do you walk away when you are in a contract? 

He may be named by the end of today!! then he will be sorry.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

I don't understand the advice from Trading Standards. 

You paid a deposit to reserve a vehicle which you rightly expected to be in good condition. Quite clearly it is not. I bet that if the tables were reversed the dealer would be knocking a substantial amount of the part exchange price to cover the cost of putting your oil leak right.

Don't be bullied by the dealer, walk away and if he won't refund the deposit do a county court claim (quite easy to do on the web and not expensive) for the money back. Any court faced with the explanation of why you withdrew from completion would sympathise with your position.

If, as has been said previously, it is just a simple leak why won't the dealer rectify it? Suspicious say I.


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

LunarCampingQueen said:


> Trading standards say we are bound to contract as we paid deposit, however the Sale of Goods Act 1979 says it should be satisfactory quality (detailing not as having minor faults) so advised not to part with the rest of the money and negotiate with dealer to inspect and repair.
> 
> If he doesn't and we have to take it away, he is immediately in breach of contract (an engine oil leak is deemed serious fault) and we should take it to nearest Mercedes workshop and one inspected, reject the goods as unsatisfactory standard...and he is liable for repair etc.


He will not be liable for the repair if you was aware of the fault prior to you purchasing the vehicle, which clearly you are.

How much is the deposit you left and how did you leave it? If using a Credit Card (you should ALWAYS pay for a deposit using this method as it allows you access to Section 75 of the credit act) then as a last resort you could approach them regarding a charge back.

You should have agreed with the dealer that the deposit was 'subject to a satisfactory third party inspection' and have that written as such on the receipt. Otherwise what was the point of leaving a deposit and then having an inspection?


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes its a very poor affair this, i can't believe that a dealer wants to sell a van with a known, long standing oil leak without investigating it. No one should go ahead with the purchase without it being fixed and guaranteed.

It sounds incredible, please don't fall for it, especially if he has a workshop.

Paul.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

*latest update*

Well, du du (as we say in Wales)

Hubby rang dealer again saying we want it checked.

He says there isn't enough money in the deal to sort it out.

Hubby says we will bring our MH to you tomorrow and in the mean time he said he will speak to the directors.

My knowledgable friend (you know who you are) considered that oil might have been spilt on the top when the filter was changed??? and dripped down

Dealer just called hubby and said he spoke to their workshop who said the same as above....spooky or what???

What on earth do we do now?

Knowledgable friend also suggested I send photos 1, 2 and 5 to mercedes dealership for their opinion. Good Idea!

I'm worn out and I haven't even left the sofa!!

Debs


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

I would not want to buy from this dealer now with what you have just said, i would not go ahead with the deal and try to get my deposit back through the courts.

Not enough money in the deal my foot.

Paul.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

If there isn't enough money in the deal to sort it out you can guarantee that the issue is not minor. The dealer knows exactly what the problem is and is attempting to dump the issue on to you by saying the insurance policy will pay up. It won't as oil leaks are rarely covered and these policies are not intended to deal with existing conditions.

This sounds a rotten deal and dealer. You would be well advised to extricate yourself from it pdq.


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: latest update*



LunarCampingQueen said:


> Hubby rang dealer again saying we want it checked.
> 
> He says there isn't enough money in the deal to sort it out.
> 
> My knowledgable friend (you know who you are) considered that oil might have been spilt on the top when the filter was changed??? and dripped down


You paid £300 for an independent inspection - I would like to think they would know the difference between oil spilt form the filler cap and an oil leak. Would you ever be happy with this diagnosis? I would be very surprised if Mercedes could or would be prepared to diagnose something from photos.

If the dealer is being this obstructive and saying "there isn't enough money in the deal" to sort out any problems then he's already given you his position on this any future problems. Don't expect any help from him if your insurance warranty doesn't pay out in the future.

I don't think the issue here is necessarily the oil leak, it is the dealers attitude - remember you are likely paying several thousand pounds over and above what you could purchase an identical vehicle in the private market for. What for? What are you getting extra for your money?



LunarCampingQueen said:


> Hubby says we will bring our MH to you tomorrow and in the mean time he said he will speak to the directors.


You seem determined to go ahead with the deal despite the overwhelming majority of posts in this thread saying to the contrary.

You have undermined the purpose of the initial inspection and posting here for advice if you ahead with the sale without being 100% assured by a *qualified independent third party* that the problem is either non-existent or rectified. In other circumstances you could take the dealers word for it but in this instance he has already qualified his position.


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

Thats not spilt oil , its filthy black and leaked from the engine... and all over the place just as the dealer knows dam well....

Buying is suposed to be a pleasurable thing as is ownership, so do yourself a favour and simply say "fix it or the deal doesnt go through" but be carefull as you would nt complain about food in a restraunt until you d left it and refused to pay the full bill :wink:


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Trading Standards are probably correct in that you have entered a contract by paying a deposit. In the absence of any terms such as "providing any faults picked up by independent inspection are carried out" etc, you are locked in. BUT, the dealer also is obliged by sale of goods act that vehicles should be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, which this one clearly is not. They are also liable for any faults which appear within 6 months which were obviously there at point of sale.
It looks like you are being fobbed off with this oil spilled from filter story, how convenient eh??
As just about everyone else has said, a 3rd party warranty will not cover oil leaks, especially those apparent at point of sale.
Any reputable dealer would fix oil leak along with full pre delivery service, check over etc.
If they are unwilling, tell them they are in breach of sale of goods act and will sue for deposit back.
If they say they have cured oil leak, I would insist on a written report on what they did and a written guarantee from them that they will rectify any oil leak appearing within 6 months.

Without this, walk away with your deposit refunded.


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## urbanracer (Aug 22, 2007)

As this dealer will not fix this van now with a sale in progress ,will he try again to sell it as it is to another customer,if you back out?
I bet he wil, avoid!


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

motormouth said:


> Trading Standards are probably correct in that you have entered a contract by paying a deposit. In the absence of any terms such as "providing any faults picked up by independent inspection are carried out" etc, you are locked in. BUT, the dealer also is obliged by sale of goods act that vehicles should be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, which this one clearly is not. They are also liable for any faults which appear within 6 months which were obviously there at point of sale.
> It looks like you are being fobbed off with this oil spilled from filter story, how convenient eh??
> As just about everyone else has said, a 3rd party warranty will not cover oil leaks, especially those apparent at point of sale.
> Any reputable dealer would fix oil leak along with full pre delivery service, check over etc.
> ...


Thank you Motormouth, that's exactly what trading standards said. 
They are liable for satisfactory goods and if we took it straight to a merc dealer for inspection they would be liable as we could reject the goods at that point on the points of law you have so eloquently explained.

This will be a talking point tomorrow won't it. I'm sure he would be mortified if he saw what we are saying. I would be ashamed. When we walked around it and saw bits hanging off the comment was 'don't worry about that, all done in the PDI. yeah right, obviously.

I don't want a perfect van, it isn't in the first flush of youth (like me) I just don't want a headache. I agree with those who don't trust him. I feel the same.

In fact I don't want a new motorhome now

Debs


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It could be dirty oil spilled during a filter change if the filter is accessed for removal from the top, which seems unlikely.

Not enough money in the deal, so he feels he has to fob you off with a faulty vehicle?

As Addie says how will it go if you find another problem first day out. I would give it a miss even if it ended up costing me a few pounds, Alan.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

erneboy said:


> I would give it a miss even if it ended up costing me a few pounds, Alan.


Alan is right.

It may cost you a relatively few pounds now, but think of how you *will *(_not "may"!!_) feel *when *(_not "if" _) you have to get the oil leak fixed a month or two down the road.

That dealer is obviously not going to play the game, and you could be stuck with a very big bill - since most main garages charge around £80 per hour for labour alone. 8O

The oil leak shows, and you know about it.

What else is wrong? It's not possible to detect every fault from the kind of inspection you had done. Did it include a rigorous habitation check as well.

Will you ever feel really confident in that van?

Will you be back on here in a few months time spinning a tale of woe and despondency? :?

We can still help you now - but we won't be able to for much longer if you go ahead and buy it!! 

Dave


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

It's worse than this, unfortunately.

Someone said send the photos to a Merc specialist, which I did along with just a couple of other randoms (as there are so many of the engine and underneath).

His evaluation wasn't good. These photos reveal what he described as a long-standing water-cooling system fault. There is anti-freeze corrosion evidence all over the place and it could be just a water pump leak, hose leak or head gasket. He said it looks expensive (oh good). 

Dealer said the ball is in our court. Should I direct him to this thread?

I can't imagine that the contract would be valid on such a vehicle (with regards to satisfactory quality).

Thanks for your advice. I'm not ignoring it. Hubby and me have quite a lot to chat about tonight I think.

Dave: the habitation is a very comprehensive report and noted many defects but I wouldn't think we would have a snowball's chance in hell on getting the stuff done as there isn' t enough money in the deal!!!

We will see if we have the option of a refund I think.

Debs 

How weird though, suggesting stuff gets sorted pre-delivery and then all this trouble. Shame.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I am glad that you have as much information as possible to help you make an informed decision now Debs.

This thread is an example of MHF at it's very best I think, Alan.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

erneboy said:


> I am glad that you have as much information as possible to help you make an informed decision now Debs.
> 
> This thread is an example of MHF at it's very best I think, Alan.


I AGREE 100% (sorry for shouting!)

and the fun just rolls on....

Debs


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

LunarCampingQueen said:


> Dealer said the ball is in our court. Should I direct him to this thread?
> Debs
> 
> I wouldn't bother it will be water of a ducks back. Just cancel the deal and if he refuses to reimburse the deposit then go to the small claims court and also report it to any trade association he belongs to.
> ...


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

LunarCampingQueen said:


> Dealer said the ball is in our court. Should I direct him to this thread?


Definitely !

Also let us know who it is,it may help fellow members from buying a m/home from them.

The dealer's attitude stinks and they are trying to avoid their responsibilities,do you really want to buy a van from someone who says ''there is not enough money in the deal?''

It is time to cut your losses and run,hopefully you will be able to get the deposit refunded through the small claims court under the sale of goods act (fit for purpose and of merchantable quality).

The forum in this instance has saved you from making an expensive mistake,I think you at least ought to inform us who the dealer is to save anyone else the hassle of buying this vehicle as I think they will just try and offload it to another customer without repairing the seemingly expensive oil leak.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

wakk44 said:


> The forum in this instance has saved you from making an expensive mistake,I think you at least ought to inform us who the dealer is to save anyone else the hassle of buying this vehicle as I think they will just try and offload it to another customer without repairing the seemingly expensive oil leak.


Agreed absolutely Steve, but not until they have (hopefully) got their deposit back and the dust has settled. :wink:

If the dealer is as bad as he sounds, antagonising him will do The Lunars no good at all. They should try to keep it as pleasant and non-aggressive as possible.

Who knows - he may just hand the deposit back and "add a bit more slack into the deal" for the next customer! :roll:

Dave


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

As a former car dealer i can tell you unless the law has changed since i retired the wording of your receipt is critical, The term deposit means you have put a sum of money down to hold the vehicle until you make your mind up, most dealers word there receipt along these lines," received from joe bloggs £200 as part payment for vehicle ABC 123 Balance due £whatever " this does actually mean you have entered a contract with them whereas the term deposit does not.
Also your insurance warranty will not be worth the paper its written on it will only cover parts that actually break, and will possibly pay for the seal or gasket but not the labour. Depending on the size of your deposit you may be better being prepared to have to fight to get a refund than having to pay for repairs later.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Please Please just walk away from this, or RUN if possible, let him sue you for breach of contract, oh yeah I bet he wont.
From his reaction to this I would not buy from them in a million years, can you imagine what his response will be if something does fall off the vehicle.

walk away and start another search PLEASE.

cabby


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> ...............
> Agreed absolutely Steve, but not until they have (hopefully) got their deposit back and the dust has settled. :wink:...........


On reflection I think you are probably right Dave,there is a greater possibility of getting a refund if the dealer is kept onside for the time being,but I do hope that at the end of this sorry episode members are informed of who they are to help them make informed decisions(avoid like the plague)in future.



Zebedee said:


> ....................
> Who knows - he may just hand the deposit back and "add a bit more slack into the deal" for the next customer! :roll: ...............
> Dave


After hearing of the dealers attitude(not enough cash in the deal)the only thing I can come up with is this.................................


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Insurance warranties are wonderful things which can save you a lot of money if something goes wrong - so long as nothing goes wrong!

We had a "platinum" warranty on our "new" car, but the dealer didn't point out that it covered EVERYTHING except finding out what was wrong. As the service receptionist pointed out - the small print said that I was responsible for "investigatory work", which could have meant a total stripping out of the engine, and if they couldn't find anything, I'd have to pay for the rebuild.

Fortunately, that was only a "hypothetical" discussion with her; I had a few things which needed fixing and I eventually got them to accept it was down to them to sort it, because I was happy to sit in their showroom and advise customers of what they were buying. She even wanted to charge me 20minutes labour for a switch which was quite clearly broken - I took the pieces in to show her, so she said "that was only an estimate; we'd only have charged you for the time it took to find the fault". I could appreciate her point of view, but it wasn't what I expected (she wanted the estimates paying before they would start work).

Some months later, the bonnet wouldn't open and she said "it'll cost £30 to have our technician look at it, then the repair will be free". It would also involve booking it in for a weeks time (I couldn't top up the washer bottle, so travel was illegal) and require a round trip of 50 miles. The local garage did it for £5 straight away.

So, if you do walk away from this and go elsewhere, look carefully at what you get for your money.

Good luck - Gordon


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

I believe there was a problem on some MB engines with the seals failing on the valve guides resulting in the rocker cover filling with oil.

That's not the sort of job you want to rectify on an A class.

I'd echo all of the advice, RUN away, after all there's not exactly a shortage of van for sale.

I'd also agree that £300 is a lot of money for a vague description of the fault.


Andrew


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

will we hear the end of the story, and get the name of the dealer, PLEASE!!!!!


Cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

still waiting. 8O 8O 

cabby


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

cabby said:


> still waiting. 8O 8O
> 
> cabby


Perhaps there is a lot of thinking going on and who knows possibly negotiation.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

If the dealer is digging his heels in BEFORE he gets (the rest of) your money, think on how he'll be AFTER he gets your money. He will be more open about holding two fingers up.

You've done the right thing by:-

* having an inspection carried out
* asking advice here
* asking advice from Trading Standards
* asking advice from a Mercedes dealer

What else do you feel you need before you drive down the dealer and politely but firmly pass on the advice you've been given - underlining of course that it all comes under the Sale of Goods Act in terms of not being fit for purpose - then let him know that the deal is off and that you would like your deposit back - now - please?

That's assuming of course that this is what you do want. It does seem that you still are undecided, in which case, there's no further advice you need.

You just need to decide whether to risk it for a biscuit. I sure wouldn't, under any circumstances.

Dougie.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As so many others have said, do not go any further with that vehicle - it will not give you pleasure.

Tell him, politely in writing to avoid confrontation, that as a result of the vehicle not being of merchantable quality due to the faults you will not proceed any further and want your deposit returned within 7 days. Explain that failure to do this within the time will result in immediate court proceedings with no other options being considered and that time is of the essence in their positive response. (That phrase has a specific legal validity)

Send that by registered post and get proof of delivery (from the Post Office web site only a few hours after it has been signed for - you get a copy of the signature which you can print and retain).

If the deposit is not returned within 7 days initiate small claims court proceedings - you do not need legal representation and it is straightforward and not expensive.

Assemble all your reports, photos, advice from Mercedes, independent engineers etc., and file with the court. You will be given a date and notice will be served to them. *DO NOT MAKE OR ACCEPT DIRECT CONTACT FROM THEM* unless they wish to give you the full deposit back. If they try then you should refer them to a solicitor who may charge you a nominal fee for this but it will not be extortionate.

ALL costs that you incur are claimable from the dealer, including using a solicitor as an intermediary.

You have done the right thing and have sought advice, once it is all sorted then is time to name the dealer so we can avoid them like the plague........

Good luck and best wishes from all of us,

Dave


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Hello

We are not proceeding with the purchase. 

Contrary to some people's opinion, we have considered all advice on here and we are glad that others would have taken the same path. It's difficult to know what to do when you just want to do the right thing.

We have taken advice from Trading Standards and must follow procedures.

We have been advised not to say anything publicly from this point, so I really appreciate your understanding of this as a court case may well follow.

We very much appreciate your responses/advice and if you any of you are considering buying a MH in the near future and you want confirmation that your dealer is not my dealer, of course I will confirm this.

I think that is fair enough, for now, as the question was 'would you buy it and is it acceptable practice?' You all said no and we've also learned not to put a deposit on a MH until we have had an inspection. 

Oh and one more thing. This dealership hasn't been mentioned in company reports as far as I could see....(so far) but I did notice the ones who had good feedback and many of you have recommended good ones so this will be the way to go - if and when we have got over this ordeal.

Thanks again

Debs
edit changed sale to purchase in first line (doh) well it was a sale of ours


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Mod Statement*

Understandably enough, some members are very curious to learn the name of the dealer.

If we want to help Debs (and we certainly do :wink: ) please respect her wishes and ask no more leading questions which might compromise her position w.r.t. a satisfactory conclusion.

Thanks all

Dave


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## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

Pleased to hear that you are not continuing with the purchase, better luck next time.
A lesson learnt.
Regards,
Norman.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

I think I should say, because it is a bit of a coincidence, that my username was changed today.

I've been trying (very casually and with no gusto) to change my username ever since I became a full member in May this year. I joined in 2007 but just looked and left until recently.

However, once I started posting, I thought ew, I'm a Queen and my husband might not like to share this username. I hadn't thought it through at all. 

This isn't for any homophobic reason (I promise) He just said 'I won't be posting as a Camping Queen I'm afraid'. Fair enough.

Anyway, long story short and all that, recently (as you know) we have been thinking of changing the Lunar so it seemed a good time to try and dump the whole Lunar Queen image!!!

So there we are. And the choice? ThingyFromWales is my name on a game called Words With Friends so join me for a game if you are players too.

Because I know you were wondering...

Debs


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

My goodness, did you hear that,   it was a collective sigh of relief from all of us on here. :wink: :wink:
thanks for keeping us up to date, good luck in your future searches.

cabby


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