# Children or not



## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

One thing seems to be missing from this excellent site and what I have read some really nice people and that is the mention of the C word.

Children, although I am 46 we are privileged to have 4 children from 5 to 19 (don't ask, my misses seems to have the ability in the garden to fertilise and grow anything, what I did not know she has the same effect on me)
Anyway, very aware that many Motorhome owners are using their retirement to catch up on their travel and even for those who are not, like ourselves, nusiance children are just that, that's not to say ours are perfect, far from it, but we do tend to have high expectations of their behavior etc.

Anyway, I have not read much about children and motorhome, issues, positives etc, why is this?

Regards
Hugh


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

Good question Hugh, I am sure it is not because we are all anti children, a lot of us seem to have swapped them for dogs though! :lol: 

I don't know what proportion of members are in what age groups and only a small percentage stick their heads up above the parapets and put posts up, it could be just a coincidence that the more vocal of us happen not to have any!

If you think it would be a good idea to have a section concerning youngsters and motorhoming, why not suggest it, it might bring the response you want.... or start by raising some issues in General Chat and getting some debates going to see how much interest there could be.

Gill


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Hugh

I wonder how many of us travel with children, occasionally in a thread someone mentions their children/grandchildren. Maybe you should start a thread with a poll asking about it.

I get the feeling that generally this site seems to represent the makeup of the Motorhoming "community" which to some extent is mostly made up of folks like us who are described by the acronym:- SKI-ing ( spending the kids inheritance) although personally I would prefer to be known as a GOFER (Genial Old Fart Enjoying Retirement)

I think there are a quite a few maybe, like yourself:-KIPPERS (Kids In Parents' Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings).

Also maybe even less who are DINKY (Double Income No Kids Yet) or the unfashionable :- OINKY (One Income No Kids Yet)

I must admit, and please do not take offence, when we choose a site or even a pitch on a site we do tend to try to avoid loads of kids. Mind you when we camped years ago "with family" the opposite was true, having other kids around was great. When we now see "Family Site, Loads of Attractions, Great for Kids" in a guide book we do tend to pass up the opportunity to stay there. Having said all that, when encountering families camped near us with, lets call them "well socialised" children then it can still be enjoyable....it all depends on the kids....or rather on the parenting, if you see what I mean.


Mike


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

We're NINKY (no income no kids yet), cos we're not paying ourselves yet  

When we tell people we live on a van, they usually say 'good time to do it before you have kids and have to settle down'. Then they freak out when we mention that some people do actually take kids with them. 

Most of the kids we meet think our van is really cool and we often get thumbs up and waves from passing children.

We tend to avoid crowds in general, not specifically families. On more than one occasion we have ended up attracting crowds of children (cute dog, lots of outdoor 'toys', Ben spending too much time walking on his hands etc..) that we have ended up looking after in the absence of their parents - hey ho.

Lizzie


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

Some of us are NKAPIN (no kids and past it now) although having a spottydog in tow usually attracts hoards of under 10's 8O which he loves as long as they don't scream which frightens him. I am not keen, having spent a restless night before an early start having footballs kicked into the side of my van for hours, so go for quieter places with adults only. But that's just me.


Gill


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I've just logged in from Lingfield where I am doing two days "Doubtfire" duties for three of the grandchildren.

Kid s to me are the difference between my motorhome and Ben and Lizzies which I estimate I could afford had I kept my trousers done up.

I have to say, I love holidays with kids but I am not so keen on them in a m\home. Mobile home yes. Rented cottage\villa yes. Hotel not keen. 

Unfortunately, kids grow into adults and that is when the money starts whistling out the bank. Car help, university, repayable loans that don't happen all drain my m\homing allowance as I see it.

Probably my favourite holiday is when we rent a couple of large and joined farmhouses in the Lizard and all the children and grancchildren go. I love it. Last time I made everyone speak in a Cornish accent for two weeks. This worked well apart from some true Cornish men thinking I was taking the pee and then finding out how difficult it is to stop talking in a Cornish accent once back at work.  One of my daughters and my wife have professional occupations and found theirselves talking to clients and at board meetings with a Cornish accent much to their horror.

So all my ideas have been banned from future holidays.

If I won the lottery, I would buy a house to holiday in regularly, probably in France and once of twice a year have all my family there for a ding dong.

Kids - I love them - I hate them. Depends which day you ask me.


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

No I think they should be either banned or fitted with silencers, if I let Jess make as much noise as the average kid these days I would be regarded as anti social and rightly so!
If I see a vehicle with kids in it coming my way whilst sited my heart sinks, I am not anti kids generally, just shown two very nice girls my calves, but I cannot abide noise.
So I am a 'oinq' only if nice + quiet. Or perhaps just a grumpy old bag


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## james (May 15, 2005)

I am going to own up to possesing two of them. Having married late with a wife somewhat younger than me (I am in my mid fifties), we have a five year old and a two year old. Both love holidaying in our motorhome. I think it is forgotton just how suitable a MH is for kids, food making facilities always available as is that essential toilet. They have their own hidyhole in the overcab bed where they can watch dvds (with headphones), generally play and even sleep. They enjoy the family closeness of MH holidays and are always nagging to go again.

We are aware that others might not enjoy our kids as much as we do but since we tend to wild camp around Europe, it is not really a problem. Mind you, they can be useful. If we find someone parked up where we want to be, we just park unreasonabley close and let the kids out and suddenly we have the spot we want to ourselves. Only joking but there again, maybe....
James


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

James said:


> We are aware that others might not enjoy our kids as much as we do but since we tend to wild camp around Europe, it is not really a problem. Mind you, they can be useful. If we find someone parked up where we want to be, we just park unreasonabley close and let the kids out and suddenly we have the spot we want to ourselves. Only joking but there again, maybe....
> James


Don't try it with me James I let the dog out and she is a very vicious Irish Setter (well she will try to lick you to death :roll: )


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Helen - would you show Pusser your calves...? 8O 

(I thought I'd say it before he did!)

Barry


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## 88923 (May 10, 2005)

I confess I'm not good with children, being an only child and not having any children of my own, quite frankly, if any of them come near me I just smile and hope they'll go away quietly!!! 
My next door neighbours' son is 6 and asks so many questions whenever he sees me, questions about Bob the builder and the like....(Bob who?)...... 8O 
He's very sweet but I prefer him on his side of the fence!

On site, I like a bit of P&Q. I shout (quietly :lol: ) at the dogs if they bark or generally make a noise, if only some parents would keep their own offspring under control.

Naughty dogs and naughty kids are all down to naughty owners and parents.

Perhaps a parent could answer this one....
why do children scream and shout so much even when they appear to be doing something that doesnt really warrant screaming and shouting.......
and also.....

why do SOME parents think that others may be interested in a running commentary of everything their little darling is doing and has done or will be doing?????

Is it me being a grumpy old bird? :evil: 

Hmmmm, yes, probably :lol: 

Banjo 8)


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

In answer to Barry 
Of course I would, anyone can come and see them at any time by prior appointment, would not like them to be seen if they are not in tip top condition, like in need of a trim or i a bit of a wash and brush up :lol: 

Would show him my baby cattle too if he was interested :wink:


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well some Interesting views and I am one of those that wish kids had a volume knob not least when arriving home on a Friday night after a 70 hour week and of course, the kids want to let me know everything that as happened to them all that week.

Would I change it and has my father used to say, Adults are just grown up kids.

And like HelenB some kids like to be on their own and others not!

How we got back in to camping (Canvas Holidays) about 6 years ago is that each year we would book a nice villa, swimming pool and all that but the kids would get bored, I would have to drive out for the day to do something different with them.

That's when we decided to try one of these camp sites, my god, just South of Florence, well with our kid age range and our own needs, it was the best holiday ALL of us had had, didn't see the older 2 and we have not looked back since.

The MH thing is new for this Year and form parts of my grand scheme

If I was to create a "vote" for kids thing what question am I posing? can you help

Hugh
Jess is the dogs name by the way!! see I am trying to be all things to all men


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Hugh

I wasn't thinking of a "vote for Kids" poll, what I thought you could do was set up a thread posing the questions:

When Motorhoming I travel:

On my Own

Just Me and the dog/s

The Two of us

The Two of Us and dog/s

Me, the Mrs and a tribe of sprogs

Me, the Mrs and a tribe of sprogs, dogs and Inlaws (gawd help us)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Mike

Being Serious for one moment , It would be interesting to know how folks use theur Motorhomes.


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

When we go away we like to take our granddaughter with us, (school holiday time)
If people don't take them how are we going to get future Motorhome owners.
In line with most people we don't like lots of noise etc, which is why we are training our next generation of motorhomers in the etiquette of camping.
If we don't take them how are they going to learn.

Eddie
    :monkey: :icescream:


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

When we go away we like to take our granddaughter with us, (school holiday time)
If people don't take them how are we going to get future Motorhome owners.
In line with most people we don't like lots of noise etc, which is why we are training our next generation of motorhomers in the etiquette of camping.
If we don't take them how are they going to learn.

Eddie
    :monkey: :icescream:


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## 89539 (May 27, 2005)

Well, we are SITKOMs (Single Income Two Kids with Onerous Mortgage) :lol: 

We travel everywhere with the kids and puppy, and have the most fantastic family time. I try and leave the TV etc. at home now, so we end up playing cards or board games and do a lot of walking and sailing together. Our kids are mostly in the "seen and not heard" category, but they are kids, and do enjoy life, so we just try and avoid the grumpy wrinklies. 8O

One of my kids asked once "why do the biggest motorhomes only have 2 people in?"

Pete


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well said Eddie!

Mike, I know what you meant but decided it was better to ignore you than show my technical incompetence!!

So lets assume I wanted to set something up like you mention, just how do I do that, just checking you know what I know!!!!!!!! :? 

Hugh


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Kids...

Depend on the parents : We were sited last weekend right next to a caravan with 3 kids under 5 and 2 parents who never stopped screaming at them. Add to this 2 yappy dogs who spent the day shut in the 4x4 inches from our window and you can see why we were not happy bunnies and moved on. In defence of the site it was very wet and they had to pack units closer together than normal to be able to take all their bookings ( it was a C and CC site)

I'd back any campsite with child-free areas.

Does anyone know if it is illegal to strangle dogs ?


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Jess said:


> Mike, I know what you meant but decided it was better to ignore you than show my technical incompetence!!
> 
> So lets assume I wanted to set something up like you mention, just how do I do that, just checking you know what I know!!!!!!!! :?
> 
> Hugh


Hi Hugh

When you started this thread at the bottom of the page where you entered your message there was an option to add a poll. It allows you to ask a question and then to enter some likely answers to that question. Folks reading the thread can then enter a vote for any of the pre set answers you have given. If you wish to add it to this thread it would be possible ( I think) by going back to your first post and clicking on EDIT at the top right.

Pollls do need some thought when they are set otherwise the results are not much use. For example if you miss to set enough answers to your question :wink:

Mike


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Love well behaved and controlled kids and dogs :cheers: Love the sound of kids playing happily  Never had any problems with kids on sites but do get upset when owners go out and leave their dog in their motorhome, not fair on the dog or others if it barks constantly. They might have a nice day but other people and their dogs do not [-X , out of site should not be out of mind. 

Well trained and obedient dogs and kids are a pleasure :sunny:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

These weren't the kids that were making the problems Jeanann, just their parents. Left to themselves the children would probablyhave been perfectly pleasant and made the normal acceptable level of noise. It would take too long to try to analyse what was wrong with this family. 

I've no objections to children playing onsite and used to enjoy ours doing so but I didn't yell at them everytime they moved and stir up such an atmosphere than no-one within ear-shot could relax.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Hello everyone, I'm Kirsty and I am 13 yrs old
My Dad said that it might be a good idea to make a posting on here from a young persons view. I love going away in the motorhome with my mum and dad with our 2 dogs as a family. My brother doesn't come with us anymore because he is 23 and works a lot, i dont cause trouble on sites when we are away, I know that we have to be quiet because sound travels through the walls more easily of a motohome than a house.
I,ve met some of the people who go to the meetings, and you all are freindly to me, I enjoy being outdoors and especialy love going to france for our holidays.
It would be a good idea to have a junior section here where i could chat to other people my age.
bye for now Kirsty  

_________________________________________________


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## Malc (May 9, 2005)

Hi Kirsty,
Well said, I think its like a lot of other things in this world, the few give the many a bad reputation. We ALL were young once, probably many were not angels, but were taught right from wrong and respect for others. Good to see that dad & Mum are instilling the right attitude in your self.
Hope there is enough response to enable a teen and junior section to be started.
Best regards Malc :lol:


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## 89090 (May 13, 2005)

We were on a site over Easter which was swarming with kids. Most were very polite but as in any section of society, a lot were, what I would class as unruly. As usual children are a product of their upbringing.

Ken


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Good for you Kirsty, you make sure you come back and keep us grown-up children on the right track.

Ken, I do find in todays society the challenge to be a parent/s is harder, I will not let our children swear, they may do in school but not in front of us and not in front of another adult.
We like them to say thank you and please, in a shop, in a residant etc. just what I believe is decent manners.

However, I have heard often these days, parents shouting at their 6 year old child "just get a f*****g move on" in supermarkets and other public areas not least in front of our own children.
Television itself even before the 9pm threshold is often close to the mark.

I am only 45 but I would still call it disgusting and I am no prude.

And this is what I was saying in another thread that I think being a parent in todays society is harder, I don't believe because it is harder you should give up, i will go to my grave trying to install the right things in our kids but when our politicians, Police and others almost support the mis-guided I can understand why people get disillusioned with kids.

But still, amongst all the rubbish there are still people like Kirsty around and this is what we should remember.

Hugh


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2005)

I am into my third year of motorhoming and love it to bits. My children are 32 (no he doesn't join us) 17 (she rarely joins us) and 5 he treats every time away as a holiday. At 62 years old now, you can imagine the 5 year old was a bit of a shock at the time and I sulked very loudly at the thought of my retirement not being quite what I envisaged. I now wouldn't be without him even though the dream of a peaceful retirement is long past. He is what I would term a typical 5 year old boy. He is too loud at times too boisterous at times and absolutely adorable when he's tucked up in bed asleep. We try to pick campsites with something to help keep him amused. Out of season we tend to pick the larger places with a swimming pool and play area but due to expense we use anything we can in the height of the season. My favourite last year was a kids weekend held by my local District Association in the C & CC. It was a fantastic weekend and the Saturday was devoted to the kids with parents helping. It stared at 1000 with rounders, then after a break for lunch they had kids games and is was brilliant to watch the older children helping the younger ones. They then had a kids disco followed by a kids BBQ rounding the day off with kids bingo. Wife watched whilst i helped but all in all we had an enjoyable weekend and the little man had a ball. One of the first things to come out of the motorhome when we park is a crate of games and providing he can find someone to play with there is never any bother.
Looking forward to more of the same this year.
Ian


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Brilliant Ian
 

H


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## 89090 (May 13, 2005)

Thanks for your comments Jess. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am not sure about it being harder to bring children up to-day though. I also see parents sheiking at their offspring in the street and swearing at them and it sounds terrible. Along the road from me is an unmarried (oops), single mother and she works and brings her 2 kids up superbly, they are so polite and a joy to talk to. I suspect a lot of it is laziness on the parents part. But we must'nt get all grumpy. The majority of children are fine, it is the minority as usual that cause most trouble.

ken


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

When we got our first coachbuilt about 15 years ago probably 90% of the people owning motorhomes were retired. When we joined the Swift Motorhome Owners Club somebody even said it was nice to have some younger members (I was about 45!!). Before then we had a VW camper + tent which was more the norm for 'younger' families.
I am glad that a lot more families are finding the joys of touring in a motorhome, at times though when ours used to come with us they would get fed up of our constant wish to move off to pastures new after they had just made friends.

I would say enjoy your kids - dogs -cats or whatever but they are yours & don't impose them on others if & expect them to be overjoyed with them. I have stayed at places where having some children around has been great, other times we have moved on because of them being a nuisance. It is one reason I enjoy wild camping, if I don't like the neighbours I move, this can be costly if you've paid to stay.


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

The more I have read the more I appreciate my own children, they are polite, can talk to friendly adults and, more importantly know when to stay away from unfriendly bores.

Has i get older I have realised that society falls in to 2 camps (no pun) one that grows to reflect and respect all that life has to give and those whole feel life owes them a lot more

Hugh


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Hugh, glad to know that your children are polite & friendly, please don't take this as any reflection on you or your polite children but I don't ever recall any parents I know including friends, family & even myself who says that there children are the little b******s that make our nice holiday a nightmare. :roll: 
For some reason quite a few times I have been on a campsite there seems to be some fascination with the toilets & children (both toilet blocks or the portable type) maybe it's a novelty & they haven't seen a toilet before. The state these can get in over a short period of time can be amazing :evil: 

Without wishing to sound unkind your opinion of your children is biased & how they behave is more for others to judge.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

BarryandSue said:


> Helen - would you show Pusser your calves...? 8O
> 
> (I thought I'd say it before he did!)
> 
> Barry


Good point B&S and well presented. Surely, I, of all people, should be first in the queue to see Helens calves. My God, I have given Helen my all - well not quite all but that bit isn't really going to make any difference.
Don't suppose you grow Melons Helen - just curious. :roll:


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Pusser [-X Behave


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Now now children! Have you stopped taking the pills Pusser? If so and it is longer than a week gradually work up to the full strength.

John 8)


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Started camping as a family as soon as the younger of two got controllable of sorts, aged 2. Then it was a folding trailer tent for 5 years and great fun, though we always had to think about a weather go/no go on the Thursday/Friday before a weekend away.

Progressed to a caravan once we could afford it and were clear it would be a worthwhile investment, and that gave us tremendous memories for the next 11 years. We tended to stay put, weekends and main holidays starting once we had arrived and pitched at a carefully selected site with the necessary recreational facilities, etc., and finishing once we broke camp. In a caravan it could be a fairly relaxed regime where everything DIDN'T have to be tidily put away so we could get to the shops at short notice, or whatever. It was great getting away but still having all our "toys" with us.

But in their late teens they understandably wanted to spend their time with friends rather than risk being seen with parents (unless it was something 'cool' like skiing, which we paid through the nose for at half-term week for a few times), so it was quite natural then to consider what made more sense for just a couple and a dog, who wanted to get away at short notice, make the most of days out, overnighters and weekends, and explore, moving from place to place.

So the caravan went and motorhome van conversion arrived. And we are enjoying just worrying about ourselves, apart from the costs of them both at Uni at the same time, that is :-(

It all seemed a natural progression according to phases of life and/ or affordability. And if I had the same time again, but with the benefit of hindsight and having experienced all 3, I can honestly claim I'd do the same again. I wouldn't have missed any of them. Horses for courses.

Dave


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## 88933 (May 10, 2005)

*Kids and Motorhomes*

Been reading through the letters and comments concerning children, both the Wife and I are retired, and have been bringing up our one grandson now for the last 6 years, he is 12, and like us really enjoys his outings and holidays, whereever we go, and me being an old codger with a dicky back at times, well he`s a great help, and we would`nt be without him, oh, and of course our 2 yorkies, so you see I need the help.

Mind you, it does interfere with one`s peace and quiet when there are loads of kids on a site, I tthink we expect to much of modern kids to respect our peace and quiet in this day and age, perhaps we were brought up differently, or maybe its just grumpy old me.

Mike


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

mine is the TAWIK (Travelling Around the World WIth Kids) style. When she was 7 we took my daughter to her first trip in a (rented) motorhome. And she loved it. When we bought our van about a year later we made it a surprise for her ("We've got a surprise for you. It's big, white and you find it on the car park..." :wink:  ). 

Methinks that motorhome and kid(s) is just an ideal combination: Food and drink (and the loo!) is always within range and on long-haul trips we have the "on-board cinema" (laptop with DVD player powered via inverter). 

Now she is 10 but still looking forward to every motorhome trip.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

> Methinks that motorhome and kid(s) is just an ideal combination: Food and drink (and the loo!) is always within range


Well said, Gerhard.

I think motorhomes were invented for the benefit of children! My two sons (now late 20s) still have very fond memories of our European sagas. Funnily enough, their favourite motorhome was a VW Caravelle GL that I converted, using the superb 4-berth 'Spacemaker' roof (remember them?) rather than our later coachbuilts.

As I get older, I appreciate other people's children less and less. I'm not grumpy, but I find peace and quiet are rare and precious commodities in my life.

"Children", "peace" and "quiet" are very rare bedfellows!

Barry


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## Arizona (May 9, 2005)

Hugh

Have read the responses to your post with interest. Come on guys, life is short and we all started out as children! (I hope). I think our tolerance levels get lower as we get older, my husband often remarks that we should have had ours when we were younger as we would have had more energy and patience!!

I think the main reason more people with young children do not have motorhomes is the cost. We have 4 children under the age of 9 and are trying to raise them with the kind of values we were brought up with, including respecting your elders. We bought Homer because we felt it would give us great family holidays and memories and I have to say 1 year in and so far - great. Our children love it, they want to go away at every opportunity, if fact if we are visiting friends the say "let's bring Homer we can stay!" I think it's one of the best investments we made for our family.

I have no problem in campsites having separate areas for families, in fact there is a site in Co Wexford, Ireland that has. If we manage to get away without the gang (a rare occurence) we don't wish to be surrounded by someone elses. 

Camping is a great family holiday, letting them play on a beach or in a park and not on a play station, using their imagination and not technology. Maybe that's part of todays problem - not enough family interaction and too much reliance on gadgets to amuse the children.

Anyway I've gone on enough, each to his own, but our motorhome travels fulled loaded with children everytime!!

regards

Arizona


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Arizona,

Could not agree with you more although I do respect people who do not want to be disturbed there is a balance.

What you don't here is from children has they develop in to young adults complaining about old people who are now in decline and mentally returning to child like attitudes.
Although this could never happen to me because I never went in to adulthood and therefore there appears to be no change in my maturity has I grow old

Hugh


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Well said Arizona.

Personally I am all for separate areas on sites for children & dogs, so that we can camp in peace away from all the GOBs & Victor Meldrew types who have clearly forgotten what it was to be a child and have no love for man's best friend..

From a WSITKATD Widow, Single Income, 2 kids & 2 dogs.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Caz, I'm an ex-teacher of, on and off, 35 years; "kids" have been my livelihood and I have 4 of my own. I enjoy them and watching them make friends and play on campsites. If I am a Victor Meldrew type for wishing the ones who spend their time under the window of my van screaming and banging footballs into the sides were in a separate area, then so be it. I regarded playing with my children or allowing them to go off and find interesting things to do as vital to the enjoyment of all- including other site users. I did not shut myself in my van with my telly and ignore them.

As to dogs; I've had many of my own and count myself a dog lover. I think enough of their welfare not to shut them up in a car for all but 2 brief walks every 24 hours and would not allow them to spend the other 23 hours yapping endlessly.


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## 88834 (May 9, 2005)

*Kids*

Interesting topic

Both the wife and I are 34/35 years of age respectively and we have had a Autotrail Cheyenne for 6 months now.

We have a marvellous 5 year old boy. He loves the MH.

We are lucky because we chose a pricey MH instead of a caravan. I had no desire to pull a caravan. Price is an issue for many families our age. Fortunately our savings and jobs made a purchase possible.

Benefits - travelling long distance. The fridge, space and toilet are just brilliant. We do not use expensive motorway service stations.

I agree that we maybe young in comaparison to many retired folk - but we love the atmosphere on campsites. Children are generally well accepted. Everyone we have met are very complimentary with regards to our sons manners and behaviour.

Mhs are certainly child friendly.


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## 94863 (May 1, 2005)

*traveling with kids*

I have just returned from france with an 8 and 5 year old who love every minute of life in a motorhome. especially after fitting of new dvd and gamestation. Its good with the overhead cab layout as they can get to bed early and you can move in and out without waking them. I think it will be more difficult as they get older and can no longer share the overcab bed. Never had a problem with neighbours on site but as we travel with a german shepheard not to many approach the MH.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Hi all, I'm Craig and I'm 14. We've only had our motorhome a couple of years now and its cool!!! I love being able to just pack up and go ( well I love watching my mum pack up and go). Me and my bruv are learning as we go along and some times we can be a bit loud (mum told me to say that!) We like to explore and go fishing and are very friendly, we don't bite and can chat quite intelligently to everyone for short periods. (Mum made me put the short in)
I'm Christopher and I'm 10, mum says I'm noisier than Craig but i don't think so. I like sleeping in the over cab bed. I like to take Neo our dog out and I like running around. If I annoy you just tell my mum thats what I do if somebody annoys me. I like old people cos they sometimes say funny stuff and they give me stuff.
Hi I'm Carol as you know and I think the old people give Christopher stuff to make him go away. I'm not the type of parent who think my children are angels ( basically cos they're not!!!). If they were annoying anyone on site I would like to be told (politely please) so I could sort it as its important that they learn the "etiquette" ASAP. I know some people would storm off in the huff if someone complained about their little darlings but I'd rather know!!!!!!!


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Welcome to the site you two, think that is the first posting we have had from offspring and very good it is to see  

You sound like really 8) people and I hope you continue to enjoy your MH'ing, who knows in 20 years time you could be posting on the forum as owners, bet we will be talking about the same thing then :lol:


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

Hi,

Having read all the posts on this thread I was very suprised at the number of people that did not like to have children parked near them. Up to now I have never considered that having children with me could cause an issue, now I know why so many leave when we arrirve.. Joke (I hope)
Years ago we hired a motorhome in Canada when the children where 3 and 5 and had a great time, from then my husband and I always said that when the children were old enough we would become skiers (spend the kids inheritance) and purchase a motorhome. In the meantime we brought the children to france and stayed in mobile homes where they had a great time. However 2 years ago something happened and we decided that why wait till retirement when we may not ever get there. so we begged and borrowed the money to purchase a motorhome. The children are still young and come everywhere with us. We have only used the motorhome once without the children and to tell you the truth I really missed having them there. 
I do think that how children behave depends on parents attitude to society in general. As adults we must tell our children how to behave it is not something that they are born with. If you as an adult do not respect other people your children will not respect them either. I know children will be children and can be high spirited at times but they should know when enough is enough. Some of the grumps have already expressed an opinion that they do not like to see children set up camp beside them, well to tell you the truth I hate it when we park our motorhome and discover our neighbours are people who glare at you just because we have children with us. We all should learn to respect each other, give people a chance and see what happens, if there is something you have a problem with a polite word goes a long way. Perhaps the people in the van next to you do not realise their behaviour is not suitable.

Last year in France an elderly french couple were pitched beside us, the first day they gave us funny looks and kept watching what our children were doing, (possibly didn't help that we were with another family with 5 children) however during the course of our stay there we spent many nights drinking and playing dominoes (it was the only game we could play where we did not have to explain the rules) with this couple even though neither of us could speak each others language. 

So all you grumps out there don't turn your back on the people next door to you if they have children with them you never know you may enjoy their company afterall the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow. 


Deirdre.


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

hi all

*THIS IS ONLY MY REFLECTED OPINION*

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted:

we have 3 girls, all married and with children of their own and i would not swap them for the world, they have been great kids from the day they arrived on this earth and never given us any problems (and i mean none)

But now they have all got there own lives to lead and to find there way in this world, with a little help from dad and mom

Getting to the point now...............

we, were married very, very young(did not have to :lol: :lol: ) me 18 and my lovely wife 17 (31 years ago) and started having the kids within 18 months, so we missed out on our own childhood ..........Now that we are free of the children....IT IS OUR TIME and we are having the best time of all

So i guess when you see a grumpy old couple next to people with children who dont always look to happy then maybe its because they are relaxing and reminiscing and having time for themselves after having done there own parenting

Not everyone likes to listen to kids shouting and screaming IMHO, even if it is all in fun

Finale.....as we have 4 grandchildren, all young, we are not to bothered about a little noise

Consideration and respect is a 2 way street

Love us oldies aswell

Paul


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Hi all,

Having had two children who have long since flown the nest we have settled down to our own company, now, well behaved children are a delight and a pleasure which I am sure you would all agree but badly behaved children are a pain in the rear.

The kind of thing I had in mind is :---- sat in a resturante (open air) trying to have a nice meal and a general chat with friends and the whole thing was spoilt by two 10 or 12 year olds running wild around the tables shouting and screeming with the parants doing nothing to control it.

But when you look closer at the problem of badly behaved children its usually not the childrens fault but the parents and unfortunately they never see it that way and to say anything will probably get you a mouth full of insults so is it any wonder that good parents have a mountain to climb.

Doug.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Great comments from both Paul and Deirdre there,..Camping/Caravanning is a great british family holiday tradition, and there will always be conflict between senior couples, and children when pitched near one another, after all we are British and it's our god given right to moan about anything and everything, especially when we reach retirement! 

In all the years I've enjoyed outdoor holidays, as a youngster and now as a family man, I've yet to meet anyone who has "had a ball kicked at their 'van",..been "driven to despair by a screaming child" "kept awake all night by loud music" etc. etc.:? 8O

I must be one of the lucky ones that's only visited the nicer sites in all these years where this sort of thing doesn't happen,....... musn't I :?: 

M&D


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

Hi,

I know that children can be badly behaved and it annoys me too but just because there is a family in a motorhome next to you does not mean that your peace and enjoyment has to be spoilt. What I am saying is please do not judge all families on bad experiences. I know that my children are not perfect but I do hope that they know how to behave, they would cetainly would not be allowed to run around other peoples tables or kick a football against their van etc. I do think that camping type holidays are wonderful for children, I have found that it is great for us as a family to go away together and have some "quality time" enjoying each others company.

I think people should consider where they go as to whether it is suitable for their needs or not, I know that there is two sites in Ireland that are couples only and that is fine. There are also sites that have sections for couples only which is probably the best scenario for everyone. If I am looking at a campsite and it says that it is quite, I would not go there as it probably would not be suitable for children. Likewise those that don't want the intrusion of children would probably be better to steer away from sites that cater for families with alot of activities for children. 

Perhaps we should encourage sites to have more designated areas for people with different needs, then everyone would be happy. MInd you if I was next to someone with unruly children I would probably put the children into the garage and move into the couples section. (I do jest)

Going back to something said earlier why do couples have the largest vans, whilst staying at a site with designated area, myself and the hubby went for a walk through cupids grove (couples only area) where I saw the biggest caravan with an enoumous awning and side awnings parked there. The mind boggles as to why the needed that much space. As I say different courses for different horses. 


Go Neiri an bothar leat.


Deirdre.


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## 88923 (May 10, 2005)

yes, M&D you must be lucky.!!!!

I went away at Easter and although I didnt realise it at the time, Sugarplum was parked next to me....well Sugarplum certainly wasnt noisy or badly behaved.... :lol: but the children, or should I say, the parents of the children, camped behind us were a pain. 

Despite my polite request to stop kicking the ball at my windbreak (they were using it as the goal) they continued to do so until I asked the parent to tell them to just kick the damn thing in the other direction. 
The response? 'Well, I don't want the ball coming into the tent'. 
Great!
As I walked away i heard her say to her mate, 'miserable old cow'..... :twisted: 

The children were just trying to play and apart from the ball whacking the windbreak and making me spill my cider :lol: , I didnt really have a problem with them playing right next to me..... but if parents can't be doing with their own offspring playing around them and getting under THEIR feet what hope for the rest of us old grumps? 

Like I said earlier, bad parenting, bad dog ownership and the results are inevitable! 

I don't mind if a tarantula parks next to me as long as they are polite!
And I'm not a miserable old cow either :lol: , in fact, I can be quite jolly after a few ciders, as long as I don't spill 'em!!!!!
:wink: 


Happy camping

Banjo 8) 

One man's rights are another man's chains.


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## 88847 (May 9, 2005)

Hi All

dave let me know where you are parking at beverley with your kids :twisted: :lol: :lol: 

the biggest fault that some oldies have is "lack of tolerance" . When you are a bringing up a family "you are in the zone" and your brain/body/mindset lets you get on with all the things that life throws at you and that includes the children needs/noise etc (been there)

When you suddenly find that the children are no longer dependent and have a bit of peace and quiet then you become a different person in a small way, and the longer you are in the "time for yourself zone" the more you get to enjoy it

if the truth be known i am still a big kid at heart and if the kids are playing games i join in, if the grandkids are running about with a ball then i will be with them......the plus factor is that i know they will all be going home within a few hours (hope that dont make me sound like an ogre) and i will be able to get back to doing my own thing

Of course this is being written by a man and my wife may have some different views, not to many tho.........

Paul


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## rednev (May 10, 2005)

Hi I have been M/H for some 15 years started earlier then some are children have been camping in m/h since they were 6 weeks old get them in to the swing early I say, they are now 7,11,13 year olds and look forward to a weekend away in the m/h sometimes they bring a friend and we put a pup tent up for them,but they are always well behaved as unlike some kids I have seen on sites.We have been members of several m/h clubs, yes many of them are older then we are yet having been out with them for a period of time started to bring grandchildren along to join in with ours, as kids in m/h groups are very very few, I would love to see more families joining forces who have children and a m/h. Paul. m/h were always considered to be for the older generation not any more.


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well, considering I am failure new to MFc and MHing this listing I posted not that many days ago has cause a little stir.

However, I have learned some good stuff from all your comment and, to be fair, what sets most of the active users of this site apart is the ability to converse, discuss, disagree but remain friendly.

So, do I want my kid to be part of this, of course I do.

But I do respect that other people want quite and enjoy the ambience of their location without the loud laughter of kids all around them.
I guess the good news is that most familys with kids will look for a lively site to camp while people without children will not, so keeping both lots of trouble makers apart!!

In all seriousness, I have been know to pack up get kids in van and drive off because of that noisy lot next door with those infuriating kids.

Our kids are far from perfect but must respect others especially their elders but there is one little problem with this, how some of their elders have treated them, without provocation does not set a good example so we need to make sure whatever age we are we must manage children as if their are your own because, as been mentioned many times here, its the parents who should take responsiblity the poor kids don't know any different

J


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Why are we talking about "elders" and the rest ? Doesn't everyone, whatever age, want to be able to enjoy their holiday and not have it disturbed by *abnormal* behaviour ? I'm using that term advisedly too.

Most people, of any age, are happy to see children playing ball, riding bikes, making dens and making friends on a site. What few of us, of any age, want to hear or see is the hyped up child and their parents screaming at each other, constantly nagging and shouting and acting in a way which even the youngest child should be able to see is anti-social. When a child persistantly kicks a ball into my van side he knows quite well that this is not on. He's waiting for mum or dad to tear themselves from the tv and take some notice of him, however aggressive that notice might be.

As an ex-teacher ( secondary), mother and voluntary worker with children, I long to take these children and actually play with them or show them how to play and enjoy it. Frankly, given that I can't do that, I'd rather they parked elsewhere. Just because I'm 60+ does not mean that I am more susceptible than average to the stress their behaviour and the constant nagging from parents produces.

Camping holidays are great for children , we had lots when ours were young and some of them still camp with their families. Most sites have a play area away from the units. I have not seen many children use this though -certainly not as many as when ours were young. Isn't this another manifestation of the "stranger-danger" fear that is so prevalent ? I don't seen many dads around kicking balls with their children though if they feel they need to keep an eye on them.

Rant over ! :?


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

......diary of a paranoid family motorhomer......

Note to self: Must stop running into the van and leaving the kids to face the music after booting footy against other van: Ditto stunt kite

Note to self: must get up before wife as reversing down ladder in nude with all curtains and doors open nearly caused fatality amongst old couple next door - unable to ascertain if she was choking on breakfast or doubled over in hysteria as I smacked my head on roof rushing back up ladder, resulting in uncontrolled descent and backwards tumble out of door - Wife said no harm done...

Note to Self: must grow bigger gut and look like my best years are behind me in order to blend in with other motorhomers - Wife says I don't need to try too hard on this one!!!!

Note to Self: Must learn tolerance when wiping dog poo off kids boots; after all owner probably too old too bend down and pick it up....

Note to self: must learn more about motorhome techy bits, value of flashbit1 over flashbit2 -seems I've bought a duff one with an uncomfortable layout

Note to self: Wife lectured me on tolerance of other peoples kids as ours are noisier: S'funny I thought they were very quiet

Note to self: must not stereotype, must not assume, met nice old couple with dog who liked kids and kids liked them!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

There was a very long thread Before The Crash on this subject which, in general, seemd to come down in favour of the children ( sorry, HATE the word "kids" ) and anti the old fogeys who preferred to be on their own and have peace and quiet onsite. Interesting that this thread seems to stick up for those who like children on holiday to remember the feelings of their elders.

G


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## 89147 (May 14, 2005)

It makes me sad to hear people moaning about children.If its such an issue for people why don't they just go on sites for adults only or go when the children are at school or try to remember once upon a time you where young and carefree before this great world we live in wore you down or if the children are running around playing football or having fun (away from other vans)why not join in you might remember what it feels like to be carefree.(theres a kid inside all of us you just have to remember where it is)

What would you prefer a site full of miserable old codgers or a site full of happy people (of all ages) LIFES TO SHORT

Sorry, im biased i have children and lost a few quid on a static caravan which was based on a waterpark with full leisure facilities for children,we were the only ones with children, if I would have known I was buying into a retirement complex I would have left my money in the bank.

I belive respect for each other is a two way street and should be applied at all costs, silence can be controlled but childrens laughter cannot.

cheers Nick


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

My two lovely sons have grown now, and I have now become a "my children OK - other people's children not OK" tribe member!

However, last Bank Holiday we were a bit late being able to get away, and settled for a small, private countryside site at Northiam, Sussex (just a field, but a beautiful walk along the River Rother to Bodiam Castle and a steam train, or boat, ride back - but I digress).

On arrival our hearts sank when we saw the sheer number of children on the site. Apart from the few families, there was also what semed a children's club of some kind, housing the youngsters in a very large tent, motorhome, van, etc.

However... I'm pleased to say that all the children were a delight (amazing!) - they played nicely, not rowdy, but just cheerful, happy play and they were a real pleasure to watch; football, a kite, hilarious activity with a pump-up 'rocket', a frisbee, etc. What was particularly nice was to see the older children (in their teens) caring for the tots (6/7 year old). If you were part of this party, you should feel proud.

So, Grumpy Barry found a new, softer side! Moral of the story? It's not the children, it's the parents that are the problem.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Nick; I don't believe people are moaning about *children* as such. What they do object to is *badly behaved children*

There is a world of difference between children having fun, talking, laughing and kicking a ball around on a dedicated field and the bored, screeching child who can find nothing better to do than hang around and kick his football into your van or threaten to do the same with his bike.

Not many -of any age group- would object to the former and many of us gain a lot of pleasure from watching our own and other people's children learn about different cultures and improve their language skills. Many of us have however suffered from the latter and their -dare I say it- dysfunctional parents who treat the holiday as licence to sit in front of their TV and ignore their children save for shouting the odd obscenity at them to "shut up".

Not all campsites provide facilities for children to be as energetic as they should be and this is a pity. Not all parents want their children to be out of their sight and this is a sad indictement of the climate of "stranger -danger" we have all contributed to.

I'm glad my children were able to grow up in a more relaxed environment and that they look back on their camping days with pleasure.

G


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## 88751 (May 9, 2005)

*Kids*

Having a 6 kids and 11 grandkids, I love em to bits, but not the grandkids in my motorhome, they love playing with doors, climbing over everything and generally making a mess. I can just about put up with this, but wherever there are children, there is always a ball and I can almost guarantee that it will at some stage land on the the paintwork of my car or motorhome. Of course you can't say anything, you must just accept it's just kids playing and resort to polishing out the scratches again and again.

Ian


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Anti-kids, How do you think you got here? Didn't you go to school with them?
Only in this country could the topic of children generate 62 posts.
You only have to see the difference between our advertising copy and editorials for both motorhomes and c***vans. Our continental cousins target families as potential customers in the UK it's more fore the beige nylon jacket brigade. 
I built my first vehicle before I was married with children. Beacuse my father, who was a yatcht builder built all of ours. I was also a tent camper before.
Motorhoming with children gave us more flexibility and freedom from the regimentation of run of the mill package holidays. My childrens friends always wanted to travel in our van even if it was just to drop them off at their home after a party.
I have stayed on sites wre the most noise came from a group of 'SAGA louts'

What about the other 'C' word- COUNTRY & WESTERN music AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!


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## 88751 (May 9, 2005)

*Not Anti kids*

I don't think anyone has said they hate kids. I just think as you get older you have been there and done that and are less able to cope. How many times do you hear Grandparents say it's great having grandkids because you can spoil them and hand them back quick when they are naughty.

Ian


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

....so I guess you don't like road resurfacing, overhanging trees, gravel roads etc.. as these can all scratch your motorhome but last time I looked, footballs were round and smooth, so how do they scratch your motorhome?

I find it curious, that the motorhoming and caravaning fraternity treat their vans with kid gloves. I mean I can understand it, they cost so much; it would be daft not to look after them but my view is that I bought mine for a purpose. if it picks up a few knocks in the course of our adventures then so be it and with two young kids it's going to.

Having been a recent camper, now converted to motorhome, I can contrast the attitudes of campers and motohomers. Camping is a relaxed affair, with people generally unphased by boisterous behaviour, amongst the young and the old, but sad to say motorhoming, at least in this country, is not. This attitude of protecting your 'patch' spills over not just to kids but to which way you van faces, your awning, windbreak, barbecue etc... I tend to try and avoid organised sites close to a main road/route as this seems to be where the fussy brigade limit their adventuring too. Casting further afield and squeezing down country lanes seems to take me more into the realms of the adventurous more carefree campers and that's where I like to place myself.

Of course I'd prefer it if the kids next door weren't spraying my van with water guns or occasionally hitting my van with a ball. It'd be nice if the people with the guitar stopped singing out of tune very loudly but you know what? I'd rather tolerate it and watch people having fun because I know they'll tolerate me talking over a barbecue into the small hours or my kids playing near them or shouting loudly in excitment.

And in case you're wondering, I do teach my kids to respect others, to be carefull where they play and what they do, I do apologise if I or they upset people and I do follow rules were they're given to me but i do so in an attitude of tolerance and that works both ways.

Tim

PS. what's the best way to get tree branch scratches out of your paintwork?!!


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Hear Hear!


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## 88751 (May 9, 2005)

*Kids*

OK Tim, I stand chastised, but I guess you'll be the same in a few years.

Oh and by the way balls and grit are attracted by the glue they put on them, just to annoy grumpy old men.

Ian


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

*children or not?*

NOT........

No dont get me wrong, I'm a parent, although there grown up now (but still cant get rid of one)

We've been campers and enjoyed it for years, you're right, a relaxed atmosphere, went static vans then touring caravans, couldn't get on with that. I guess I've always been a motorhomer at heart, but only just been able to get a decent one.

We are weekenders and always with friends so we're not fussy about how or where we park, I put up windbreaks for a purpose, "they stop the draughts," yes I know its a territorial thing as well, and I can stand the odd ball hitting the side of the van, and return it with a smile.

But when they constantly kick a ball at the van, or scream and shout constantly, run back and forth within inches or the door of the van, sending the dog into a wild frenzy.............NO I always try to avoid KIDS

Its true what you say about most older people, they dont want them around for long................BEEN THERE DONE THAT THANKS VERY MUCH..


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

NOT.... what?

there's no resolving this: It's just one that will run and run. 

I currently stand in the league of anarchic young (ish) motorhomers out to usurp the oldies, infiltrate their campsites and spread noise and kids everywhere, camp.

Whereas, you stand for the, life now sorted, know what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy and don't have to tolerate what I don't like, camp.

Between us a sea of windbreaks, barbecues, footballs and stunt kites!

I'm pretty sure though that there's room for us both. And provided you give me my ball back, I promise not to reverse over your windbreak!

Tim


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

8O Although I would now be classed as one of the older ones. My view is this.
I started of as a Tenter with a young family. I graduated to a Caravan and Awning. I then had a Caravan and Awning with a Camper to journey around in. I am now a Full-Timer with an RV. In all that time, I have always hated other's encroaching on our plot. I have always hated screaming kid's playing around the camping area. I have always hated the loud music played at all hour's of the night by people who then spend the rest of the day in bed to await the next night's party. We have always taken our children to the play parks and field areas to enjoy their noisy games. We always joined in the organised family games and competitions. Don't tell me I am and always have been an old fuddy duddy. I was disco champion for my week 2 years running. I came third in a singing competition. My daughter won the children's fancy dress competition. Our family were twice family champions. We had more awards, cups and ribbons enough to start a business. But I have ALWAYS hated people who have NO consideration for other's. :wink:


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

....and there you have it: I wasn't going to post to this thread again but having deliberately sought it out in the first place I feel too strongly to just let it go.

I applaud your values but I do not share them. What you have just described (not the being considerate bit) is my idea of a living nightmare: disco competitions, fancy dress etc.... not for me no thank you.

The theme of this thread is 'children or not' but it might as well read 'tolerance of others or not'

Children seem to polarise the views but for the word children insert, dogs, windbreaks, burping, football shirts etc...

I pulled in at a campsite just recently. Once I had settled I read the brochure. I realized I had infringed two rules instantly. 1) I had re-pitched after the warden had left and 2) I was facing a different way to everyone else. My immediate reaction was anger and contempt to such stupid rules but as I sat and reflected I realized their purpose. I still did not agree but if I'd been staying another night I would've towed the line. I then found myself being irritated by two yapping dogs, a couple of loud Scotsman chewing the cud and the bloke next door washing his van. Since I had arrived on site I had placed strict rules on the kids about what they could do and not do, just so I didn't upset anyone. 

And really that's the point: At what point do you stop enjoying yourself and start worrying about whether you're offending anyone. It seems in some circles all the weight is on not offending anyone and frankly I'd rather not pitch up in those environs.

I'm sure, despite my best efforts, that I've trodden on people's sensibilities, I know others have trodden on mine. 

In the end I must live by my own values and hope that that's good enough. I can't live my life worrying what other people think - a curiously British phenomenon!!

Post over

Tim


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

Here Here.........

Well 2 out of 5 aint bad.......(I dont do children and football shirts)....
the rest MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Good manners and rules exist to make the world go round more smoothly and to ensure that everyone can get on with their lives in as relaxed and comfortable way as possible. Some of the remarkable rules that jobsworths come up with ( and, bluntly I'd class several caravan club wardens in that category) have nothing to do with comfort and orderliness at all. 

Minding what others think about us is a rather British phenomenon and, the older I get, the more i find myself stopping worrying about what others think of me. That does not mean that I can let my own, in-built standards drop though. From many years of observation as a teacher I am certain that these guide-lines for good manners and for respect to others are not being built in to many of our young and they have no little voice in their head that tells them they are going too far and giving offence or upsetting others.

I'm glad I'm out of the job now but I wish there was more i could have done to remedy this state of affairs.

G


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## 88933 (May 10, 2005)

*Children*

Hi all, well both the Wife and I are retired, our newish M/H is now just over 12 months old and we are enjoying our new found freedom immensely, we have , and take with us on every opportunity our grandson who is now 13, we have brought him up over the last six years, due to stepmother problems when son remarried, he is a joy, travels with us on every outing and holiday, and when you`ve got quite a few aches and pains like us he`s very helpful, yes he can be boisterious, and shout sometimes, but a quiet word in his ear soon puts things in order, we would`nt be without him, or our two yorkies, we did have these before him, when our own kids grew up and flew the nest, but no, kids are great, and he does know his manners and how to respect his elders, so would`nt be without him, its given us a new lease on life as well as we have had to broaden our interests once again.

Mike and Pearl


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> Good manners and rules exist to make the world go round more smoothly and to ensure that everyone can get on with their lives in as relaxed and comfortable way as possible. Some of the remarkable rules that jobsworths come up with ( and, bluntly I'd class several caravan club wardens in that category) have nothing to do with comfort and orderliness at all.
> 
> G


Here here !! 
Do club wardens attend the school of ill manners before being let loose? Recently we went to the CC site at Bognor, I am always polite and listen to what they have to say, go here, do this, don't do that .. as I left the office the "lady" called me back and said 
" I see you have two kids with you.. NO BALL GAMES are allowed.."

How sad 

I would NEVER let my kids annoy anyone nor let them play ball close to anyones van, I've brought up 6 kids and all have been good mannered and well behaved, I blame the adults .. not the kids. 
Grumpy old people??? No , they have every right to moan if feral kids are on the loose.

JIm ...


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

HelenB said:


> No I think they should be either banned or fitted with silencers, if I let Jess make as much noise as the average kid these days I would be regarded as anti social and rightly so!
> If I see a vehicle with kids in it coming my way whilst sited my heart sinks, I am not anti kids generally, just shown two very nice girls my calves, but I cannot abide noise.
> So I am a 'oinq' only if nice + quiet. Or perhaps just a grumpy old bag


I find that quite offensive.

God forbid if I ever land on a site next to a "Victor Meldrew" type like that.

In fact, My heart sinks when I am sited and see a van coming my way with Victor on board 

Cheers


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

You spend the day screaming, yelling, threatening -- and still your children misbehave? You can guide them to better behavior, but first you have to retrain yourself. Children who misbehave aren't born that way. They take their cues from you: 8O how you react when they do something wrong, and how you react when they do something right. :?: 

Mandy and I as parents, have taken road trip entertainment to a new level by turning up the creativity, and in doing so have made trips fun, creative, family-bonding experiences. that last throughout our stay at any given destination.



We like traveling with our children, and wish the same for you.!

M&D


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Just returned from holiday in Turkish village and most children were a pleasure . Really enjoyed watching them playing on the beach with a ball or the local dogs, chattering away in restaurants, playing games in the pool and enjoying trips out. But, in one restaurant set on a beautiful and peaceful river, there was no peace to be had :!: . There was a group of about 10 kids (between 3 & 8) from the UK chasing about, shouting, climbing, even standing on a balcony and shouting to parents, one parent even took the toddler up to join in the fun :!: All this when there was a play area provided.

The problem was not the kids, but the parents who took no notice of them and when they did speak were loud and commanded everyone's attention. What chance have kids got with such role models :?:


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## 88991 (May 11, 2005)

We are both 45 and our children have grown up my youngest being 16 and Margaret''s being 24, I had five then found out what was causing the problem and had it dealt with.

Margaret on the other hand had one and called it a day. I think children are fine, especially the younger ones, it is when they hit those "TEEN YEARS", they want locking up until they get past them.


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## Road_Runner_644 (May 9, 2005)

I think i just love the learning process of it all - kids - camping - kids & camping - other peoples atitudes - thats what makes us what we are.

We started camping because of the kids - and perhaps look forward to camping without them, but our best memories will always be when they were with us.

Our trips away started in a VW T2 with a spacesaver roof, its already been mentioned on this thread, it was such a fantastic conversion for sleeping, i still dream of owning such a complete and compact camper again someday.

So our first trip, our girl was 2 and the lad not even 1 year old. We stopped at a site near Kings Lynn, where there were rabbits running around the site, apparantly unimpressed by caravans , tents and camper vans.

We also had 2 lurcher bitches, and they were fully interested in the rabbits.

Anyway, being considerate campers, we kept the dogs on leads, pitched the volky, and put up the awning. The dogs were tethered inside the awning, the kids slept down in the van and we slept in the roof, looking down on them.

It might seem a bit sensible, but when the kids were young, we agreed that the 2 of us would never have too much to drink in the evenings, but on special occasions, one of us could. Well, as i had driven us there, put the awning up, been a complete and total brick, i could have the pleasure of knocking off a few cans.

So - at 3 in the morning the mathematics kick in, 6 cans of whatever, i need a wee. In those days we had one of the port a loos which was basically a bucket with a toilet seat on. Still, a handy bit of kit when you can hear it p***ing down with rain outside, and your port a bucket is in the awning.

So i slid down into the middle of the van from the roof, opened the sliding door, and stepped out into a 3 foot deep hole which the dog's had dug in their inteligent quest for rabbits, which was filled with rainwater, i lost my footing and ended up sittng in this muddy hole, in the middle of our awning, I was filthy cold and wet and then my daughter woke up. 

So - the dog's were looking at me as if to say "whadya reckon dad - any rabbits down there" the daughter says "what you doing in that hole Dad, you're wet".

So i want to say "the f**** dogs dug this f*** hole and ......" but i have to say "it's allright dahling - daddy is just checking camping things, and everything is ok, this is a camping hole full of water, and Daddy is checking it so you just go back to sleep, and daddy will tell you if any camping things are not right.

Ok, the daughter goes back to sleep, i make my way to the showers, get cleaned up and wander back. 

When i approach my van, there is the next door neighbour, looking out at me approaching from his caravan. He says "everthing alright there i heard someone shouting", ok, i have to admit i may have shouted "what the f**"" when i fell in the hole.

So i tell him the story, and he laughs his pants off, his Mrs has sent him out to tell me off for language, and he didn't relish it, but he was a trooper and got to hear the real story.

This was our first overnight trip out with our family - kids (children), dogs, it was a nightmare for me, and a laugh for the rest of them. My Victor Meldrew was, understanding and compassionate, although he laughed like a horse.

Since then we have travelled to France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Every trip has thrown up funny, embarrasing and unforgetable experiences.

I have kids, i wouldn't dream of not travelling with them, however they are approaching the ages where they may soon being doing their own thing for holidays.

But, i guarantee you they won't forget camping in an MH for a long time.

If i pitch next to you and we annoy you, i'm sorry, it's not planned and we'd rather be somewhere else also. If you hear me cursing, it's because i have fallen into a hole full of water that i didn't expect.

If my kids annoy you, join the club, they annoy the hell out of me sometimes, but they are learning, albeit slowly. I plan to have them fully grumpy, inconsiderate to young families, and more right wing than Genghis Khan by the time they are 60 



Kids and Camping - Inseparable.

Dave


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## 92915 (May 1, 2005)

Hi all, we're just back from a typical OAP holiday - kids all at school - peace and quiet?! Hardly saw a child at all.
Nevertheless the last night was virtually a write-off! We spent it at one of our favourite spots in the Vosges: _Charmes_. The weather had turned warm and it was the local kids that shattered the peace. It was the weekend and no school next morning. Not only did we have the local children swimming in the canal and shouting at each other non-stop all afternoon, in the night the local young rowdies turned up and wrecked the place, riding their mopeds araound on the grass between the motorhomes, yelling and even breaking down the doors to the showers etc.  
People who might otherwise have stayed longer at this pleasant _aire _obviously left next day. It is easy to send a couple of women to collect the Euro 5,- per night - otherwise noone seems interested in what happens there.
Having been a high school teacher for nearly forty years, I owe my pension to kids and actually still enjoy their company - but why on earth can't they be taught to speak to each other instead of yelling? Laughter is great - shrieking is quite a different story!
Just my tuppence worth - and looking forward to the next trip nevertheless!
Adri


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Quote: but why on earth can't they be taught to speak to each other instead of yelling? Laughter is great - shrieking is quite a different story! Unquote

Sit for 15 minutes in a corner of your local Tesco and you will see the example that many children get from their parents in the art of one to one conversation !

There does not seem to be much chance to have good old-fashioned quiet talks in many nurseries or primary schools these days either. Some that I have seen seem to work on the "survival of the loudest" principle.

G


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Hello, 

There has been some interesting points raised in this thread eh? 

But I still think it's wrong to discriminate against a van arriving on site, just because it has kids on board? If you have never met the family (not just the kids) in question, how can you judge them so soon? 

In my own experiences, when you encouter misbehaved or annoying kids, it 
can often be the parents fault for letting them run wild in the first place. That I do find bang out of order, but have witnessed on several occasions now. 

When we are on a site, we too like to enjoy the peace and tranquility. We therefore assume and respect that everyone else around us is also there for the same reason. We respect this, and like to think we (as a family) act in a responsible manner as a result. 

For example...ball games, BANNNED! 

We do not allow ball games in our small garden at home anymore. A small garden maybe, but it is still somewhat bigger than your average pitch? 

Why did we ban ball games.. because all too often the ball would end up hitting a window, going over the fence and/or hitting a neighbors window / plants / flowers / greenhouse / whatever etc. We have a perfectly good park near by. So, when the ball comes out.. we trot off for a game of "footy" at the park, and not in the garden. 

And yes.. we do carry a football on board our motorhome, however, nearly all sites we visit have some sort of play area. So in much the same way as being at home.. If the football comes out, then it's on the play area or nothing usually. Thats the rules for us.. simple ;-) 

Cheers

Nidge


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

again it's different standards isn't it. On the specific football issue...

At home we don't have a back garden but a yard, we too visit a nearby park. My two, now 6 and 7 are currently football mad, a fad which surely won't last but while it does they don't go anywhere without a ball.

We carry several different types: Soft foam ball, plastic and a leather one, and according to situation, the appropriate one is rolled out.

Yes they play in the backyard and if the ball goes over, well tough, they have to wait for a neighbor to chuck it back. I wouldn't dream of banning them from this on the ground it annoys our neighbors, unless of course one of them specifically complains. But I do limit them to certain balls and sensible hours.

When we arrive at a campsite, a full assessment is carried out according to F.I.F.A. standards (Football In Field Again). The last one I arrived at didn't have a field so I allowed dribbling of a soft ball with no kicking, first van other than ours to be hit, then all bets off and find something else to do - it's amazing how fast they can move if the ball heads towards another van. I allowed it because after being couped up in a van all day travelling, they need to let off steam and after half an hour they are generally satisfied and then go and do something else. Generally I join in or watch. I've found that other adults are less prone to say something if the dad's playing too!

I didn't always do that. I once naively imagined that people couldn't possibly mind kids kicking a foam ball around but after they were told off by someone for hitting his car, something I didn't see or hear about until the next day I then re-evaluated. Which is another thing that irritated me.....

....If someones got a problem with my kids, then they should see me not shout at the kids, especially when still young and learning limits. Then I can decide whether there request is reaonable or unreasonable and explain to the kids appropriately i.e. 'he's quite right you shouldn't do that' (apology might be in order) or 'I'd like you not to do that because the man asked' and then explain that in other circumstances it might be OK and why that might be the case.

I try to be polite even if I don't agree, though I reserve the right to be unreasonably grumpy and look like I might try and fit you up your exhaust ( I won't honestly)!!

Tim


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

:? I think what you are trying to say is this:-
There is a right time and a right place to play games of any kind unless of course there is no where to play. Then we will play where we want to and damn the neighbours.
We try to respect other's privacy, but SOD them if they don't like it because I'm going to live my life my way.
My Kid's enjoyment is more important than any other peoples enjoyment in any shape or form.
If they don't like me and my kid's doing whatever we want to do when ever we want to do it? Then why don't they move on somewhere else because we are quite happy doing what we want to do when we want to do it and however we want to do it. :roll:


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

In a nutshell J&S

But its easier than that........

If you want peace and quiet, or at least somewhere that kids don't play, then go to and adults only site or a more private and isolated spot.

Should you not mind, or indeed actively seek, somewhere where kids can play, and get their much needed fresh air and exercise, then there are loads of suitable family sites, or indeed larger areas where suitable space is available.

Horses for courses eh.

If you go to the latter when you require peace and tranquility,....you're not likely to find it..


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

....ooops, didn't quite mean to sound so militant - we're all really nice, honest, you'd really like us to be camped next to you.....


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

I believe our kids (2, 1 boy and 1 girl) were brought up to respect others and on no account to affect others on site. We would never allow ball games around ours or others vans and we would expect others to respect our site pitch and van. Tand D sounds like our worst nightmare on site!!
Interestingly it is our kids that hate to see other families upsetting our Motorhoming and are probably more anti kids than we are.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

*Paulway* if only more families were like your family. Then camp sites and the World in general would be a much, I said MUCH better place to live. :wink:


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

...or the converse could be true but i guess there's safety in agreeing with others.

In the spirit of debate, there's a touch of devils advocate in my posts but I still stick to my central theme, which is we don't all share the same view, live by the same standards or think the same way. Hopefully we do all share the same moral fibre but that's a different debate.

Children or not - yes definetly. The same to windbreaks, barbecues and anything else which causes the blood pressure to rise in others. The watchword is *tolerance*

No to inconsideration and rudeness and in my defence, despite others interpretation I don't prescribe to either.

Tim


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## 88751 (May 9, 2005)

*Kids*

This thread has attracted a lot of attention and to my surprise a lot of strong feelings from a group of people who seem to get on well in general.

However no matter what some people say, there are children out there who have no guidance from their parents and total disrespect for others, this of course reflects on their parents.

When I stated my views further back in this thread, I pilloried for them. Looking back at what I wrote, I don't think I was against kids in what I wrote. Like adults there has always been the bad and the good kids.

Whilst I agree we have to give and take in life, I don't see why I should tolerate bad behavior from anyone.

My kids were brought up to respect others and they have passed these values to their kids.

For many years I worked with young people who had got themselves in trouble and I always found that most would conform when they were amongst a group who had reasonable behavior patterns or there was a penalty for bad behavior.

Ian


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Hi Tim...

I think I'd rather the watchword be "consideration" than "tolerance"

I'm happy to have barbeques on campsites ( given no fire risks ) but don't want to have to tolerate the heavy smoke and smell of cheap beefburgers and firelighters on windy days when they blow into my van and linger for days in the upholstery. In the circumstances I'd expect consideration from the barbeque users to look at prevailing wind and closeness of other vans and either use the barbeque somewhere else or not at all.

Incidentally - how many campsites have barbeque areas, away from the vans, where brick barbeques are ready for use by anyone and even - my goodness, can be shared by strangers who might finish up having an enjoyable meal together. Pretty common in Southern Africa which we know well, but not so north of the equator.

This applies to children too. i like children but I should not have to grit my teeth and tolerate the poor behaviour of some. Children should be - and I 'm sure many from camping families are - taught to detect and consider the feelings of others and modify their behaviour accordingly. It's not rocket science 

G.


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## 2point (Jun 10, 2005)

Having not bought a van yet I read this thread with interest.

The stereotypes that we've been warned about seem to crop up, still researching some. I don't understand some of the problems, no doubt I will in 12 months time.

General courtesy is expected in all walks of life, we all know that some people just don't stick to the 'rules', kids included.


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

I know that I have posted a couple of items on this topic pre crash days. I was very surprised to see that it has come up again. My main point in my early posts were that children should be taught to behave, if they are misbehaving badly this is probably a parently issue more than anything. Tolerance is a key word in this discussion, people should learn to be tolerant towards each other and learn to live and let live. 
Respect how other people live their lives even if it is totally different to yours.


Reading through the posts on this topic i could not believe how intolerant people can be, one would have to wonder why they bother to go to campsites when they know certain behaviour bothers them, Like children having fun, The young couple in the corner with their small tent having a barbeque (they can only afford the throw away ones so it smokes a lot). The dogs barking next door when anyone comes within an asses roar of the van. People sitting around talking late at night and having fun, If you do not like to be with certain type of people, why go there. I know that my worst nightmare would be to on holiday in some parts of Spain with a pack of lager louts so I don't go. So therefore why do people go to sites that would be unsuitable to their needs. 

Maybe things are different in Ireland (perhaps other members can disagree with this) but I have never had any problems with people on sites. I started camping before I was married with children and have only returned to it in the past four years. I guage a site on how good a time the children can have there. Last weekend we were on a small site (as a bigger site nearby was full) the children were soon out playing football with all the other children on the site within a half hour of arriving. There was only one comment (that I am aware of) made by any of the people on the site with no children and that was a positive one. "isn't it great to see all the children out playing together and having fun even though they are a vast range of ages.". Perhaps we are more family friendly over here in Ireland. I don't know. With the point made about barbeques, isn't the only point of camping about eating outdoors, i know the food always tastes better. i love the smell of the barbeques on site. I know I would hate to be pithced up and Victor Mildrew and his wife to arrive and pitch their van next to us. There is nothing worse than to see two moans sitting there looking at you with faces like dried up prunes as if having fun is wrong. Again I ask if you are putting yourself in an enviroment that does not suit your needs , why do it. Organise your trips away in the quieter times or go to sites that do not cater for families. Otherwise put up and S*** up. 

With regard to childrens behaviour I do believe that parents are to blame for alot of bad behaviour. I hope that I have brought up my children to behave courteously and polite to others whether young or old. I do think that if your children see you respecting others they will follow suit. Under no circumstances would they be allowed to run other peoples pitches or kick football at other peoples vans, they were taught that so they just dont do it. 


So please tolerant other people


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Quote 
With the point made about barbeques, isn't the only point of camping about eating outdoors, i know the food always tastes better. i love the smell of the barbeques on site. I know I would hate to be pithced up and Victor Mildrew and his wife to arrive and pitch their van next to us. There is nothing worse than to see two moans sitting there looking at you with faces like dried up prunes as if having fun is wrong. Again I ask if you are putting yourself in an enviroment that does not suit your needs , why do it. Organise your trips away in the quieter times or go to sites that do not cater for families. Otherwise put up and S*** up. 
End quote !


Ouch ! I seem to have got up your nose thoroughly ladybird ! Sorry about that.
Too much to add here but please read the whole of the correspondence before you judge. Next time we have a braai I'll remind my other half that he must do a Victor Meldrew act to live up to our image ! 

G. ( the female of the species)


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

If we end up annoyed by anything on a site be it too many unruly kids,stinking barbeques, all day generators or whatever, we don't freak out, argue or have a confrontation...all that was given up 4 years ago when we retired from 35 years in the hospitality industry ( hotels, restaurants, pubs) we just move on at the earliest opportunity, sometimes just across the field but sometimes off that site alltogether ( with an appropriate refund if possible), Its our version of live and let live! We don't often make any mistakes in choosing sites....its easy, if there are too many attractions on the site we know that there will be loads of kids enjoying themselves so we arrive prepared and ask to be sited in a quiet corner or more likely we book in to the CL just down the road which having no facilities at all will suit us just fine.

What would be the point of taking kids on holiday if they were not allowed to enjoy themselves and let off steam? They just need to have parents who can guide them in how to do it the right way...if I have to describe what the right way is then you are lacking in your parenting skills.

One thing I learnt in my previous life was that in dealing with the Great British Public is that they have the inbuilt ability to be complete arse****s and they are at their worst while on holiday.....Now I am one of them (public that is) I do try to behave myself when it comes to dealing with other campers or the "Camp Commandants" mentioned by Scotjimlad, but I can feel for them ( the camp cammandants) dealing with us lot can be a bit trying, but there is never an excuse for real rudeness to a customer....I always got away with doing a "Basil" (My hero from Faulty Towers) on any "unneeded" customers, This usually managed to upset them enough to either bring them down to our level, whereupon we usually got on just fine or they would up and leave and that suited me fine too :lol:



Mike


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

Well there's nothing left to be said then is there? :sleeping:


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi John

Do you wanna bet...with 2293 views and 97 replies this thread has a life of it's own.

mike


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

:roll: Yes I know, let's try and change the subject. Anyone kicked any kid's out of the house recently. :wink:


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## 88751 (May 9, 2005)

*kids*

It's you John, You stirred up the aggro. Mind you Doncaster people are stroppy.

Ian


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

8O You are right. There sure are some stroppy people in Doncaster. Usually the one's who are visiting. :wink:


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## 89147 (May 14, 2005)

: :?: :?: I can see now why i haven't had many replies to my earlier post regarding full- timing with children???? and its a shame i didn't get this many replies to another post regarding which choice of van. Both posts being more constructive.


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Bignick

Maybe the full timers or the family folks don't have enough time to faff about on a forum answering questions about that stuff :lol: I would guess that most of the regular posters/question answerers on here are parked up somewhere "over the hill" and living in an "empty nest".

Mike


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

Sorry if I upset anyone by my comments before, no harm intended. The point I was trying to make that we have to learn to live and let live, and if we have difficulty in living in certain circumstances then we should bow out of the situation rather than cause confrontation. We should all try to pick a site that suits our needs ie. sites with alot of activities for families, small quite sites with fewer amenities for couples or if either group prefers the other type of site well and good but you must remember to respect the needs of the people on that site. So I think to sum up I will use three words.

Respect

Tolerance

Manners.


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

couldn't 'ave put it better....


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

bignick said:


> : :?: :?: I can see now why i haven't had many replies to my earlier post regarding full- timing with children???? and its a shame i didn't get this many replies to another post regarding which choice of van. Both posts being more constructive.


 8O I don't see any problme Full-Timing with children. I have met many in my travels and the majority of the children have been well educated and well behaved. With regards a Van/Camper/Motorhome/RV for Full-timing? I have made my views clear on this subject. If you would like the comforts of a static Caravan then you have to choose an American RV. Just my opinion. :wink:


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

TandD said:


> couldn't 'ave put it better....


 :? I think we said that over and over again 4 or 5 pages back. But what the heck. It's all good fun is it not? :wink:


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

in fact it's excellent fun. Anyone ever listen to the debates on five live after 9. This morning was on the influence of celebrities and whether we should listen to 'em.

Every now and again the recurring theme of whether society is better today or yesterday comes up, along with 'are people who have children selfish?' debate.

it's great stuff - no one ever agrees: 

Tim


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