# Replating



## grouch (Oct 1, 2005)

I have a 2002 Hymer B584 motorhome built I am told on a standard 3.9 chassis. This came from the factory with a sticker on the side indicating 3500 and also an alco plate under the bonnet showing 3500.

My log book shows no weights. 

To ensure that I remain within the law I wish to upgrade the plate to 3850.

I have read about the Company Tagplates on this forum and wonder if anyone has dealt with them or have got any other ideas.

I am still somewhat confused as I was originally told by the Ministry of Transport that as this was a passenger vehicle it required no plated weights. Perhaps things have changed.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

I replated my B544SL from 3500kgs to 3850 kgs via SV Tech who were extremely helpful. www.svtech.co.uk Give them a ring and I am sure it will be sorted easily.


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi Grouch

I also used SVtech, NB arto A class, because I have airides took it up from 3500 to 4100Kgs - £200 +vat. 

Jon


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

I,m just filling in the form to uprate ours from 3800kg to 4000kg via SV TECH.
Had the forms about 8 months, originally they said £200 + vat, i presume the price has gone up as they now say £240 + vat.

Paul.


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

grouch said:


> ......... I am still somewhat confused as I was originally told by the Ministry of Transport that as this was a passenger vehicle it required no plated weights. Perhaps things have changed.


By Ministry of Transport I take it you mean Department for Transport or was it VOSA?

Passenger vehicles and or "private vehicles" do not require a "plate", but when we at VOSA talk about "plating", we really mean the official plating certificate showing the weights applicable to that vehicle (and other information) which is issued to all goods vehicles over 3,500 kilograms.

I think the plate you are referring to is the VIN plate (for the uninitiated, VIN = Vehicle Identification Number, otherwise called either the Manufacturers Plate, or Chassis Identification Plate).

This plate is placed on the vehicle by the manufacturer during building of the chassis and bears the VIN or Chassis number, the maximum weights permitted for the axles, gross vehicle weight and train weight, OR, by the converter after the body has been fitted - they may adjust the permitted weights applicable to the vehicle, but will never exceed the design weights.

To uprate the vehicle weights, you can either go down the road of using SVTech as mentioned by others, or, and this is the cheaper option, contact Hymer, preferably at Bad Waldsee, and ask them if it's possible to uprate the weights, if it is you can then ask them to issue you with a new plate - cannot remember the cost, but it's a lot less than the £200 odd that SVTech will charge.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*replate*

Can this not be done without a third party?

TM


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

*Re: replate*



teemyob said:


> Can this not be done without a third party?
> 
> TM


I wasn't aware it could be as everyone just said use sv tech, but maybe it can.

With the vat on £240 it will take it to very nearly £300 with sv tech.

Anybody done via Hymer?

Paul.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: replate*



coppo said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > Can this not be done without a third party?
> ...


I think they charge around the same.

Annoying thing is there is no physical/technical difference between the 5000kG Sprinter chassis and the 5300kG.

Yet everyone wants £300 ish for the uprate

See here

I don't even think it needs different tyres and if it did then they are no different in price.

TM


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## Oil-on-the-Road (Oct 16, 2009)

*Re: replate*



teemyob said:


> Can this not be done without a third party?
> 
> TM


A couple of years back I needed to *downgrade* a Renault Master ex-ambulance to 3500 - I tried for a few weeks to do it myself, but eventually got fed-up with being told different things and being sent to different (wrong) places by different government offices.

In desperation I contacted SV-Tech who sorted it in two weeks for £195 - obtained a replacement "stick-on" VIN plate, sent it to me with an application for changing the log book, & a letter to show DVLA suggesting that they ring them if they still had issues. Problem solved.

Well worth the fee IMO

Steve


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Link*



javea03730 said:


> I replated my B544SL from 3500kgs to 3850 kgs via SV Tech who were extremely helpful. www.svtech.co.uk Give them a ring and I am sure it will be sorted easily.


Need to remove the . from the end of the Link

TM

Mod note: Done


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## windyspark (Sep 23, 2009)

I have the same issue,
I spoke to AL- KO at the NEC show.
They said if you have an AL KO chassis they can probably up rate.
He said it's just a paper exercise, give them your chassis number and they can tell you if it's possible. He said it would cost about £79 
Give them a ring see what they say

Good luck


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## linal (Mar 14, 2006)

Hi I uprated my 544sl thro Hymer & the cost was approx. £60 for new plate.

This was done with ease & the usual German efficiency.

Alex.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

*Re: replate*



teemyob said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > teemyob said:
> ...


 The chap at sv tech said to me that they've tested these chassis (mine merc 316 cdi) to 4500kg with no issues at all, but merc will only let them uprate to 4000kg, regardless of whether you have got full air suspension etc etc.

Paul.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Keith (sprokit)

When you write 'we at VOSA' is that the official view?

I have a new plastic VIN 'plate' upgrading from 3500 t0 3850, which is suitable for mounting in the footwell.

The alloy plate affixed to the cross-member reads 3500, although the registration with DVLA on the V5C states 3850

So now the new VIN and DVLA info are in line, but am I obliged to change the alloy plate under the bonnet? or could I just remove it (or ,tongue in cheek, use it to show to the toll-booth attendant?)

It seems from various posts on various threads that we are getting different advice from DVLA, DfT and VOSA and that some vehicles over 3500 have been registered as motorhomes and others as PHGV and if PHGV are they passenger vehicles thus not requiring a 'plate' or are they goods vehicles as in the 'G' of PHGV?

Various bits of legislation seem to treat the issues differently.

Maybe we are better off with this obfuscation as CPS may decide it isnot worth public money to prosecute in an area where the legislation is ill-defined.

Geoff


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## grouch (Oct 1, 2005)

Nicholsong

Thanks for your thoughts.

This has recently come to a head because of French persecution of motorhomes. As my vehicle shows no weights in the log book, is a passenger vehicle, and is exactly the same construction as one comes out of the factory in Germany showing 3850 I am beginning to wonder whether the simple solution would be to remove the existing al-co alluminium plate under the bonnet and replace the stick on Hymer weight indicator with one made up by the local signwriters.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Grouch

Nobody really answered your Q as to whether you need any plate.

On the issue of being stopped by foreign enforcement officers, remember if the vehicle is legal in the country of registration it is legal in all EU countries.

Maybe the best defence is to ask any official who stops you what UK law you have breached.

No doubt Aspro or one of his colleagues will be along with an opinion on that approach

Geoff


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

Sorry folks, this is necessarily a bit on the long side.



nicholsong said:


> Keith (sprokit)
> 
> When you write 'we at VOSA' is that the official view?


Geoff

That is not only the official view - it's law - Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 - Regulation 67 regarding Vehicle Identification Numbers:
_(1) This regulation applies to a wheeled vehicle which is first used on or after 1st April 1980 and to which the Type Approval (Great Britain) Regulations apply.
(2) A vehicle to which this regulation applies shall be equipped with a plate which is in a conspicuous and readily accessible position, is affixed to a vehicle part which is not normally subject to replacement and shows clearly and indelibly-
(a) the vehicle identification number in accordance with the requirements specified-
(i) in the case of a vehicle first used before 1st April 1987, in paragraphs 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 of the Annex to Community Directive 76/114/EEC; or
(ii) in any case, in sections 3 and 4 of the Annex to Community Directive 78/507/EEC;
(b) the name of the manufacturer, and
(c) the approval reference number of either-
(i) the type approval certificate which relates to the vehicle model or the model variant of the vehicle model, as the case may be, issued in accordance with the provisions of regulation 9(1) of, and Part I of Schedule 3 to, the Type Approval (Great Britain) Regulations; or
(ii) the Minister's approval certificate which relates to the vehicle, issued in accordance with the provisions of regulation 9(2) of, and Part 1A of Schedule 4 to, the said Regulations._

This refers specifically to the VIN.

Regulation 66 relates to weights which should be marked:

_Every vehicle to which this regulation applies shall be equipped with a plate securely attached to the vehicle in a conspicuous and readily accessible position which either-

(a) contains the particulars required, in the case of a motor vehicle by Part I of Schedule 8 or, in the case of a trailer, by Part II of that Schedule, and complies with the provisions of Part III of that Schedule; or

(b) complies with the requirements specified in the Annex to Community Directive 78/507 or, in the case of a vehicle first used before 1st October 1982, in the Annex to Community Directive 76/114, such requirements being in any case modified as provided in paragraph (3).

(3) Instead of the particulars required by items 2.1.4 to 2.1.7 of that Annex, the plate required by paragraph (2)(b) shall show, for a vehicle of a class specified in column 2 of the Table against an item of that Annex so specified in column 1, the following particulars-

(a) the maximum permitted weight for that class, if any, shown in column 3 of the Table;

(b) where the maximum weight shown in column 4 of the Table exceeds the maximum permitted weight, the maximum weight in a column on the plate to the right of the maximum permitted weight; and

(c) if no weight is shown in column 3 of the Table, the maximum weight shown in column 4 of the Table, in the right hand column of the plate._

You'll note the regulation does not mention axle weights - however, this brings us into the realms of the "Authorised Weight Regulations 1998" (and I'm not going to print that lot), so if the axle weights are not shown on the plate then they are shown by vehicle type and configuration in those regulations. And then of course there is the carrying capacity of the tyres, a subject which has been mentioned before on this site.



> I have a new plastic VIN 'plate' upgrading from 3500 t0 3850, which is suitable for mounting in the footwell.
> 
> The alloy plate affixed to the cross-member reads 3500, although the registration with DVLA on the V5C states 3850
> 
> So now the new VIN and DVLA info are in line, but am I obliged to change the alloy plate under the bonnet? or could I just remove it (or ,tongue in cheek, use it to show to the toll-booth attendant?)


The official view appears to be that if a vehicle is uprated and a new plate issued, the new plate should be affixed as close as possible to the original - try that on a Fiat chassis Hymer, the plate is on the slam panel, and there's no way my new plate would fit - so it's now affixed to the step panel inside the driver's door - makes it possible to show the "excellent" Continental law enforcers the one you wish them to see!! Then hope they don't insist on weighing the vehicle using the wrong plate!!



> It seems from various posts on various threads that we are getting different advice from DVLA, DfT and VOSA and that some vehicles over 3500 have been registered as motorhomes and others as PHGV and if PHGV are they passenger vehicles thus not requiring a 'plate' or are they goods vehicles as in the 'G' of PHGV?
> 
> Various bits of legislation seem to treat the issues differently.
> 
> ...


The fact that a vehicle is registered as a Private Heavy Goods Vehicle does not make it a "goods" vehicle, the vehicle, in our case a motor caravan, to use the correct term, is not a "goods" vehicle, i.e. it is not designed for the carriage of commercial goods, and don't even think of trying it on in relation to "passenger" vehicles - they do not fit the definition of a Passenger Carrying Vehicle, they would never obtain a Certificate of Initial Fitness and so on ad nauseum.

Your next post: 


> Nobody really answered your Q as to whether you need any plate.
> 
> On the issue of being stopped by foreign enforcement officers, remember if the vehicle is legal in the country of registration it is legal in all EU countries.
> 
> ...


I think I've answered the first part above, you need a plate.

As far as weights go, it is not the case that if it's legal in the country of registration, it's legal in all EU countries - as an example, the maximum weight for a 6 axle articulated vehicle in the UK is 44,000 kilograms - but not in France or Belgium, or Holland or Germany. But to put your mind at rest, up to a max. of 7,500 kg (medium sized goods vehicle or big motor caravan) the permitted weights are generally the same throughout the EU, it's when you get above that weight things change.

If you are unfortunate enough to be stopped by the enforcement authorities in the UK, unlike the people in the ivory towers, we generally have a pretty good grasp of the laws we are paid to enforce, so by all means ask away about breaches of the law.

Hopefully, if Asprn reads this he will be able to confirm what I've said, isn't it great when you have access to the legislation.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Keith (Sprokit)

Thank you very much for your very full reply.

You say that the new plate should be fitted "as close as possible to the original". As I stated before I have the original Fiat alloy plate under the bonnet and the N+B plastic one by the footwell (both showing 3500kg.

Obviously it makes sense to fit the new N+B 3850 plastic one near the existing position near the footwell, but are you saying the original N+B should be left in situ? If so,since neither is dated how is it known whether the vehicle has been up-plated or down-plated?

If your answer is to remove the original N+B plate, what about the Fiat plate? Remove or replace?

If two plates are left on the vehicle it would be possible to point to either according to whether one is talking to law enforcement or a commercial organisation re charges etc.

As I understand it after up-grading I will need to go to a VOSA station for its 'MoT'. If I affix the new plate before the last MoT expires is it mandatory to immediately get a VOSA certificate to be legal if stopped within the year from issue of the last MoT?

Keith sorry for all these Qs but minefields have to be trod in carefully


ONE COMMENT FOR GENERAL CONSUMPTION 

( I do not expect Sprokit to comment on this)

I just wonder how many of MH owners, particularly in the 3000-4000kg bracket are totally legal in respect of

1 Correct DVLA category and weight 

2 Correct MoT

3 Actual loading and axle weights

4 Licence they are driving on, if overweight

5 Mirrors for newer vehicles over 3500kg

6 Speed limits for over 3050kg "unladen weight" - however that is defined and established at the roadside when MH has awnings etc. fitted

7 Correct tyre pressures, considering most manuals seem to be wrong


IT'S A COMPLEX WORLD !!!


Geoff
IT'S


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Keith (Sprokit)
> 
> Thank you very much for your very full reply.
> 
> ...


Geoff

I hadn't realised you'd got a "new" N & B plate, I thought you were talking about a new plate other than the manufacturers plate - this being the case, there is no harm in removing the "old" N & B plate and replacing it with your uprated plate, BUT, leave the original manufacturers plate in place under the bonnet.



> As I understand it after up-grading I will need to go to a VOSA station for its 'MoT'. If I affix the new plate before the last MoT expires is it mandatory to immediately get a VOSA certificate to be legal if stopped within the year from issue of the last MoT?
> 
> Keith sorry for all these Qs but minefields have to be trod in carefully
> 
> ...


I take it that prior to the uprating of the weights, you took your vehicle for it's Annual Test to a local garage?

Even though you've uprated the weights, it's still a Class IV vehicle and should be tested as such, (all motor caravans are Class IV Test regardless of size) there is no need to take it to a VOSA Goods Vehicle Testing Station providing your previous Test centre can handle the vehicle - the only time a motorhome would be required to visit a GVTS for test would be when the subject vehicle was too big to go to a Class IV test centre, for example, some of the big American RV's can only be tested at a GVTS, but only because of their size / weight. We have the facilities to test such vehicles, where a lot of commercial MOT garages do not.

HTH

Keith (Sprokit)


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Weight Limits etc*

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't there lots of disadvantages to having a vehicle over 3.5 Ton ?

Is this not why the Motorhome Manufacturers de- rate the vehicles to the 3.5 limit ?

As I understand it travel in both Austria and Switzerland becomes more complicated when over 3.5T.

Steve


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Weight Limits etc*



pneumatician said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but aren't there lots of disadvantages to having a vehicle over 3.5 Ton ?
> 
> Is this not why the Motorhome Manufacturers de- rate the vehicles to the 3.5 limit ?
> 
> ...


Quite right Steve, there are many disadvantages, not least of which is the driving licence, not so much here in the UK, but in Europe they have had the 3,500 kg limit (after initial driving test) for a lot longer than we have in the UK (we changed to this on 1st January 1997).

You mentioned as an example, Austria, you must have a "GO" box to transit Austrian motorways, whereas a 3,500 kg vehicle only requires the 'vignette' (a lot cheaper), and, I believe, motorway tolls in other countries are more costly, although I think that is mainly down to the toll booth operator.

There's also the question of speed limits, again the >3,500 kg limits are lower than </=3,500 kg. But who wants to fly about at high speed when you're on holiday, or even worse, retired.

Which brings me nicely back to driving licences, don't forget that if your vehicle is over 3,500 kg, when you reach the magic age of 70, unless you have a medical and specifically request category C1 remains on your licence, you'll revert back to being only the holder of a category B (vehicles up to 3,500 kg).

So, yes, there are disadvantages, but nothing that isn't manageable, and I'd rather be able to load within the carrying capacity of my vehicle, bearing in mind the puny payloads attainable on most motorhomes these days, than be prohibited, and possibly fined, for being overweight.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I agree with Sprokit's reply to Steve.

It seems that manufacturers are squeezing their own market in two ways:

firstly, there will gradually be less buyers qualified to drive 3500+kg without a course, test and expense:

secondly, for those unwilling to go through that loop, manufacturers are reducing the permitted payload by adding extras, but not being honest about the real weight of the MH the customer sees on the forecourt.

Soon it will come back to hit them!

On the point of travel in Austria, Sprokit is right about the GO permit for Motorways, but I understand that many minor roads have a 3500kg limit, so most of Austria is a no-go area. I wonder how delivery vehicles manage? Or is this a law for foreigners

Geoff


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