# Last night of the proms



## rayrecrok

One of the best programmes on the telly.. On now!.


ray.


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## Penquin

Agreed we are watching it now and LOVED the medley of WW1 songs......


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## Drew

We loved every minute of it. It seems to get better every year except for the waving of the European Flags, thy make me sick. 

We are and always will be British, not Europeans. How can an audience sing Rule Britannia and wave European Flags, doesn't make sense to me.


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## barryd

Drew said:


> We loved every minute of it. It seems to get better every year except for the waving of the European Flags, thy make me sick.
> 
> *We are and always will be British, not Europeans.* How can an audience sing Rule Britannia and wave European Flags, doesn't make sense to me.


Speak for yourself. Im proud to be both, well at least I was once.

I Agree with Ray though. Fantastic.


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## Pat-H

Sadly the waving of a Union flag is now associated with a right wing isolationist view and many people have a wider view of unity and cooperation. To chose to wave a UK union flag would indicate a rejection of cooperation with Europe. To wave a European flag indication that as part of the EU we are stronger. 
So the waving of the flag is symbolic of those views for many there.


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## Drew

barryd said:


> Speak for yourself. * Im proud to be both*, well at least I was once.


I ask, if you were in a hospital in France or where ever on the continent, and had to complete a form asking your nationality, what would you answer?


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## barryd

Drew said:


> I ask, if you were in a hospital in France or where ever on the continent, and had to complete a form asking your nationality, what would you answer?


Well British of course as that is my nationality just as a Frenchmen would put French or a German, German but we are all Europeans and have been European Citizens since 1993 but nobody could put "European" as a nationality as Europe is not a nation and they wouldnt know which country to send the bill to. Im as much a citizen of Europe as I am of Britain. The two are not exclusive IMO.

Next question.


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## JanHank

I must search our programs for the last night of the proms, we used to enjoy it.

Since when has the UK been taken out of Europe?
https://s20.postimg.cc/cfat9sigd/Screen_Shot_2018-09-09_at_19.08.02.png


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## JanHank

I must search our programs for the last night of the proms, we used to enjoy it.

Facts is up the creak again.

Since when has the UK been taken out of Europe?
https://s20.postimg.cc/cfat9sigd/Screen_Shot_2018-09-09_at_19.08.02.png


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## rogerblack

EU flags were being handed out free to people going into the Albert Hall by an anti-Brexit political organisation.


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## GEMMY

rogerblack said:


> EU flags were being handed out free to people going into the Albert Hall by an anti-Brexit political organisation.


As they were last year


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## dghr272

I would have thought a Wrexiteer would have rejected the offer of a flag.

Some just can't get their head around the extensive damage Brex**** will have, perhaps this puts it in context.

Composer Howard Goodall defended the campaign, saying: “No-one should be surprised that music lovers want to express their solidarity with professional musicians over the issue of the damage Brexit will do to their livelihoods by shutting off the right to freedom of movement that has been so vital a part of our common European musical landscape for the past forty years or so."

"Anyone saying that music and politics aren’t supposed to mix and that the pageantry of the Last Night of the Proms should be ‘just’ a concert reveals themselves, I’m afraid, as lacking in even basic knowledge of music’s history.

“They should acquaint themselves with Mozart’s Marriage of Figaro, based on a banned play proposing the subversion of the political order of its day.”

Perhaps Drew can see the sense in it now.

The tides turning as people see the impact.

Terry


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## JanHank

We are missing posts again including one from me.


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## HurricaneSmith

It must be me then. :-(

I scoured the Radio Times when the Proms section was included and decided that this year was weak.

Far too many Premiers of modern avant-garde stuff, a bit of an overture here, a bit of Gershwin there........

I can get all that from Classic FM......... and do. 

I suppose they can't please everybody. 

.


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## JanHank

Still up the creek, this page at least, where is Hurricansmiths post?
Edit.
That's weird, it didn't show until I added my post, few more didn't show either.
Sorry about my double posting yesterday, not my fault blame them others.


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## Drew

*I have never referred to Brexit in any of my posts and have never stated on how I cast my vote, please don't jump to conclusions.
*
I thoroughly enjoyed the programme itself, it was my kind of music, but I was annoyed that it was being used by protesters waving European flags handed to them by political upstarts.

From what I can remember, I didn't see many or even any European flags or berets when they showed those revellers enjoying themselves in Hyde Park or the other venues.


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## Pat-H

Is Brexit Political? I guess the whole idea is a far right driven dream but does that make it political? Most people I talk to about it think its about removing immigrants to allow "True Brits" to have the jobs. (and yes I know Brexit could never have delivered that and its clear the "True Brits" aren't able to do those jobs. But is that all political?


As for upstarts. Many are older and been around for some time. And even the young ones are entitled to a view. As already posted nobody who disagreed needed to take or wave a EU flag.


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## barryd

Well its upset Nigel Sewage so its got to be a good thing really. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/sep/10/eu-flags-at-last-night-of-the-proms-anger-farage

He thinks the flag wavers are in denial.  Thats so funny.

He tried to get his Brexit Friend Arron Banks to cough up for British Flags but it never happened.


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## dghr272

Drew said:


> *I have never referred to Brexit in any of my posts and have never stated on how I cast my vote, please don't jump to conclusions.
> *
> I thoroughly enjoyed the programme itself, it was my kind of music, but I was annoyed that it was being used by protesters waving European flags handed to them by political upstarts.
> 
> From what I can remember, I didn't see many or even any European flags or berets when they showed those revellers enjoying themselves in Hyde Park or the other venues.


My post made it quite clear why the protest was taking place, see the quote within it, as you stated "it doesn't make sense".
I jumped to no conclusion about you or your voting habits.

At this point in time peaceful protest is still allowed in, and is part of our democracy, and again the composers quote made it relevant to the concert.

Any good protest movement wants to maximise their efforts, so the hall with all the cameras gave great coverage, well done to them. A bit like that big red bus. 😂

Terry


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## Drew

Sorry Terry, I'm not being dragged into a political discussion by you or anyone else. 

As far as I am concerned this matter is finished.


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## dghr272

Drew said:


> Sorry Terry, I'm not being dragged into a political discussion by you or anyone else.
> 
> As far as I am concerned this matter is finished.


Just to be clear, I've never attempted to drag anyone anywhere.

Terry


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## JanHank

dghr272 said:


> Just to be clear, I've never attempted to drag anyone anywhere.
> 
> Terry


I've got long hair Terry, it might be fun


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## dghr272

JanHank said:


> I've got long hair Terry, it might be fun


Jeez Jan this ain't FC's you gotta have a bit of decorum here, behave. :grin2:

Terry


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## JanHank

dghr272 said:


> Jeez Jan this ain't FC's you gotta have a bit of decorum here, behave. :grin2:
> 
> Terry


At my age I can misbehave as much as I like coz nobody takes me seriously and it helps keep my spirits up. :grin2:>


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## Webby1

Drew said:


> Sorry Terry, I'm not being dragged into a political discussion by you or anyone else.
> 
> As far as I am concerned this matter is finished.


OMG if only it were finished................the Brexit nonsense is going to run and run........................no matter what the eventual "deal" those hardliners in the Tory party(whom the referendum was supposed to placate) will continue to complain when the sh*t hits the fan that this was not the Brexit the "people voted for"

I'm glad it's finished for you ?????????


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## aldra

Well has it finished?

I think not 

Many still want out 

The vote was out 

The problem was the government , both parties didn’t get behind it 

To busy fighting each other to come up with a coherent plan 

A shambles 

As the x governer of the Bank of England said 

Himself a brexiteer 

We could do well to exit 

The political party’s are cocking up with in fighting

I never thought I’d say this

Where is Maggie thatcher when we needed her

Ok she’s gone 

But we are a laughing stock because we are in fighting 

The vote was out 

And the all political parties should have rallied behind that vote 

It’s termed democracy

Sandra


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## Pat-H

But there never was a way to "get out" and win. Dear Maggie was a champion of the single market
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-backed-single-market-in-draft-bruges-speech

So she'd be little help with the plans to be outside of it.

The people weren't presented with valid facts. Its not that there was a route and it wasn't followed. There never was a route. Nobody has ever presented a route to a successful withdrawal.

They pretend there was but they never detail it. And I don't include siting and attempting to stare down the EU.


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## dghr272

aldra said:


> Well has it finished?
> 
> I think not
> 
> Many still want out
> 
> The vote was out
> 
> The problem was the government , both parties didn't get behind it
> 
> To busy fighting each other to come up with a coherent plan
> 
> A shambles
> 
> As the x governer of the Bank of England said
> 
> Himself a brexiteer
> 
> We could do well to exit
> 
> The political party's are cocking up with in fighting
> 
> I never thought I'd say this
> 
> Where is Maggie thatcher when we needed her
> 
> Ok she's gone
> 
> But we are a laughing stock because we are in fighting
> 
> The vote was out
> 
> And the all political parties should have rallied behind that vote
> 
> It's termed democracy
> 
> Sandra


Well Sandra what was the "it" you voted for, just interested as the Brexiteers can't tell us ?

Another question, why was there not a plan before they proposed such a radical idea and still not a plan in sight ?

A last question, what's not democratic about folk deciding once we know what "it" entails ?

Terry


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## erneboy

Shame to see a thread about an iconic cultural event become brexit 2.

Unfortunately I think it's symptomatic of the massive divide we have in the UK. It's very sad.


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## JanHank

Heyho, long way from the proms, who started this, ah yes that Drew, now look what you've done Drew, send em off to the proper 'B' thread, I keep thinking this has something to do with the Traditional, every year, without fail, Rule Britania, which is after all only tradition, some of them don't even know the words:grin2:


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## Webby1

Don't you get it Aldra.........................you and so many others were lied to and deceived by a certain group of people who thought leaving the EU was in their personal best interests.

Do you really trust Farage,Banks,Davies or Fox etc etc to care about your children's future.

We are a laughing stock because of the likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg...............do you trust any of them.And of course begging around the world for trade deals......you are likely to see more of those pesky Muslims as we go begging to India and Pakistan for trade deals..........and the African dance students

My life was fine for the last 40 years under the EU yoke and now to suit their personal interests a small cabal (no doubt helped by Russian social media in order to undermine the West.....................is Gemmy perhaps a Russian agent ???

Democracy ??...........the British people are allowed to change their view every time there is an election....................when the truth gradually comes out we can choose something different..........that's Democracy.

Don't be deceived by those people.............they need ordinary people like you on their side.............................tell them where to go


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## GEMMY

Webby1 said:


> ..................is Gemmy perhaps a Russian agent ???


No, but that disease carrying, hopping rodent maybe.:laugh:


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## GEMMY

Anyway, what's this Brexit crap doing on the Last Night of the Proms thread ????????????????????


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## Pat-H

Maybe because some people think its important? And it was raised by the post that referred to the waving of the EU flag.


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## JanHank

JanHank said:


> Heyho, long way from the proms, who started this, ah yes that Drew, now look what you've done Drew, send em off to the proper 'B' thread, I keep thinking this has something to do with the Traditional, every year, without fail, Rule Britania, which is after all only tradition, some of them don't even know the words:grin2:


My post got left behind on the other page :crying: bit like me, all behind.
Yes it is an important subject, but we don't need to get obsessed with it.
Lets get this `B´ back to where it belongs and off here please, its getting to be another religion being shoved down our throats, keep it in the rightful church here it belongs.


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## dghr272

JanHank said:


> My post got left behind on the other page :crying: bit like me, all behind.
> Yes it is an important subject, but we don't need to get obsessed with it.
> Lets get this `B´ back to where it belongs and off here please, its getting to be another religion being shoved down our throats, keep it in the rightful church here it belongs.


Jan, but this is really just a starter as it becomes clear how extensive the impact the B word will have on UK society.

No one is shoving it down anyones throat, Drew posted the flag waving didn't make sense to him, I simply tried to put it into context for him to help his understanding.

Terry


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## JanHank

dghr272 said:


> Jan, but this is really just a starter as it becomes clear how extensive the impact the B word will have on UK society.
> 
> No one is shoving it down anyones throat, Drew posted the flag waving didn't make sense to him, I simply tried to put it into context for him to help his understanding.
> 
> Terry


Yes I know how it all started, but you are only turning people against you (not you only, all who are trying so hard to make them others understand) I'm afraid its like banging your heads against a brick wall, there are non so blind as those who *will* not see.
I refer it to being like shoving religion down their throats, the only thing that does is to turn you against it. 
The teachers that shouted and balled were never good teachers, those that explained without treating you like an idiot were the ones that got through.


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## Pat-H

Its not quite banging on about religion as mostly the promises religions make can't be proved (as they happen after death)
Uhm maybe it is like religion…..

I've always felt singing rule Britannia was an ironic chant. Its been a long long time since we ruled any waves. And moving forward we even less likely to rule the few waves we will be in charge of. We are already eroding our defence as we deal with the "b" 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ermining-uk-armed-forces-defence-expert-warns

So the proms look to become an even more poignant reminder of what we once were rather than what we can become.


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## rayrecrok

Will you all just fcuk off with your Brexit crap, on to the cut and paste thread that's nearly as long as the word association game, as was at least I knew when it had run it's course.

Some of you get a life.

ray.


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## JanHank

rayrecrok said:


> Will you all just fcuk off with your Brexit crap, on to the cut and paste thread that's nearly as long as the word association game, as was at least I knew when it had run it's course.
> Some of you get a life.
> ray.


You put that very nicely ray :grin2:
I didn't find it on the German TV, it was probably broadcast on the night.
I keep forgetting where I should look for the repeats, never mind I found this instead. 
Will watch it later. I think its gonna be good.
Why doesn't it show the video anymore only the url?


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## Webby1

What is it about some people that their posts are so angry,so offensive and so unpleasant.

Brexit is the most important issue for this Great country for a generation and it will affect everything.................including your beloved Proms................which is why the musicians were waving their EU flags to show their concern for the arts in the future.

By the way I am also sick of Brexit and the flag waving looking backwards not forwards brigade........................but I would never dream of being so unpleasant as to call them small minded racist bigots.


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## rayrecrok

Webby1 said:


> What is it about some people that their posts are so angry,so offensive and so unpleasant.
> 
> Brexit is the most important issue for this Great country for a generation and it will affect everything.................including your beloved Proms................which is why the musicians were waving their EU flags to show their concern for the arts in the future.
> 
> By the way I am also sick of Brexit and the flag waving looking backwards not forwards brigade........................but I would never dream of being so unpleasant as to call them small minded racist bigots.


Sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who takes their pet rabbit on trips and walks it on a lead.. You seemed a nice couple when we met but give it a rest or keep on the cut and past thread where everybody can ignore everything every body spouts. :wink2:

ray.


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## JanHank

Hello, who said that, I can´t find it.
Come on wabbit, wrap the woopsy up and throw it in the bin, where has you sense of humour gone for heavens sake, I used to enjoy what you wrote once upon a time , now your sounding very angry all the time.
You can´t blame ray for getting annoyed, he started a *very nice subject,* but it was turned into an ugly mess.
Wouldn't it be nice if this was the last word about *that* on this very nice thread subject, but I am sure it won't´t be, good lord, let a woman have the last word, thats never been heard of.

You beat me to the post ray.:wink2:


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## barryd

To be fair it was Drew who lobbed the first Brexit Hand Grenade but I also suspect Captain Birdseye and chief fish botherer Raymundo had an inkling it would go this way.  He has form for lobbing the odd thread firework and retiring to watch the fun and to be fair it has been fun to watch.


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## JanHank

See, impossible for the female to have the last word, I will put this on record for when I see you show ver nits say otherwise.


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## Pat-H

rayrecrok said:


> Will you all just fcuk off with your Brexit crap, on to the cut and paste thread that's nearly as long as the word association game, as was at least I knew when it had run it's course.
> 
> Some of you get a life.
> 
> ray.


How nice and polite.


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## JanHank

And another thing >


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## dghr272

JanHank said:


> And another thing >


What now ?:smile2:

Terry


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## JanHank

dghr272 said:


> What now ?:smile2:
> 
> Terry


Who left the seat up?:frown2: and didn't replace the empty toilet roll?:frown2::frown2:


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## dghr272

JanHank said:


> Who left the seat up?:frown2: and didn't replace the empty toilet roll?:frown2::frown2:


Forever complaining at the wife for not leaving it up after she's finished, so inconsiderate. :surprise:


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## dghr272

Just need some chamber music to get back on topic 😀


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## JanHank

dghr272 said:


> Forever complaining at the wife for not leaving it up after she's finished, so inconsiderate. :surprise:


Looks so untidy


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## barryd

dghr272 said:


> Just need some chamber music to get back on topic 😀


Here you go then!! Sing up everyone and get yer flags out! (Stand up!)

https://tinyurl.com/y9ujr4pp


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## JanHank

barryd said:


> Here you go then!! Sing up everyone and get yer flags out! (Stand up!)
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/y9ujr4pp


Who planted them Swiss flags? :frown2:


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## erneboy

barryd said:


> To be fair it was Drew who lobbed the first Brexit Hand Grenade but I also suspect Captain Birdseye and chief fish botherer Raymundo had an inkling it would go this way.  He has form for lobbing the odd thread firework and retiring to watch the fun and to be fair it has been fun to watch.


100%. It was rather obvious.


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## barryd

JanHank said:


> Who planted them Swiss flags? :frown2:


Bloody Swiss coming over here! Going to our concerts! Waving flags!! Christ! Next thing you know they will be letting the French in!!!


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## Pat-H

erneboy said:


> 100%. It was rather obvious.


:laugh:


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## JanHank

Unfortunately innocent, naive gals like wot I am don't know that.:frown2:


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