# My Big Fat Moan!



## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

We have had problems from the start with our motorhome which we have only had for a few weeks.

An engine light which is saying injector issues, my hubby is getting loss of power, the soil full alarm beeps even after I just emptied it and waste water, the LPG gas gauge works when it wants to, the glass cover for the sink is missing a screw so crashed down on my wrist nearly breaking it, and so on and so on.

More than 10 faults in total some minor but some major and because we need it to be reliable for my husband who works away and stays in it we tried to get the dealer Discover Cannock to take it back and get our money back. We stupidly put a reversing camera, paintseal, and alarm on it but felt well within our rights by day 9 to say no we don't want it fixed because for that much to go wrong in such a short time we feel its unreliable.

They think they are doing the right thing by offering to repair it, even at a local garage in Hampshire when my husband is away but its not good enough for us because we know if it gets fixed, then it could happen again and again and we shouldn't have to have things fixed less than 2 weeks into ownership.

They fob us off about returning it so we try to find another find another van we can agree on and I liked a CI Cipro but hubby doesn't like it. The only other van he likes is much more expensive and so far we are having trouble getting finance. Which I am sure isn't helped by Discover saying the van we want was already discounted, all we know is the price on the window they say they are giving us only £23,000 trade in towards the more expensive van.

Even though we paid roughly £27,500 for our current van before we added £1000+ in extras and we paid for the extras ourself as well as £7000 cash. Yet we get to lose £5000+ because the only van we could agree on was more expensive.

And to boot its not our fault the van is riddle with faults.

Anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? I have taken off time fromw ork and my husband has , trying to pick a different one and at the end of the day what we really want is the money back that we paid for the VAN and accessories and to not have to deal with them whatsoever.

I am sure legally we should have some rights.
:evil:


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Oh and the finance company charges us £500 for early redemption if we trade up. Again, not our fault.


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

To be honest most of the faults sound pretty minor compared to the experience of many on this forum. I would give them the chance to fix them. 

I know it is annoying to have paid out a large sum of money only to have problems but motorhomes are complex machines and some teething troubles are quite normal on a new van. If you swap it for another you are quite likely to get similar issues.


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

Is it new or used and what age and mileage if so?


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi

Whilst I should not really comment on another dealer I would tend to agree with the last poster.

The engine warning light is a Fiat problem and would be fixed by a Fiat Garage anyway.

The waste warning light is no doubt either a dirty sensor or a loose connection.

The glass cover needs replacing and the LPG guage needs sorting.

Not major but annoying.

I stand to be corrected on this but I do recall that Discover offered a 30 day money back guarantee, this was posted on MHFacts some time back, whether this actually refered to accessories only or to MH's I am not sure

Peter


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

I understand but our last motorhome was "the money pit" we spent a fortune on putting the many things wrong right including the engine faults and its only because it was a big american RV gas guzzler we got rid of it.

So for this one to have problems already, I guess it's just too much of a risk especially with all the hassle of trying to get the things right. We have all our stuff in it so we would have to move it into a rental RV if they give us one and on and on. I guess it was too much to hope for a motorhome that could last longer than a few days without something going wrong.

I apolgise as well as I am not sure how I managed to post this topic in Euramobil


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

> More than 10 faults in total some minor but some major and because we need it to be reliable for my husband who works away and stays in it


You listed the minor ones, missing screw and problem with a faulty injector, what were the major ones?

You really will need to allow the dealer a fair chance to repair the problems, which sound pretty minor to be honest.

If you do not allow the dealer the chance to put things right, you will stand very little chance in Court

Take a step back and a deep breath and then you'll feel better


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Do you still think the van you bought would be right for you if it didn't have the faults?
If yes, then I would suggest you get it fixed. Any vehicle, new or old, can have faults. For me (with a 19 year old van) the trick is knowing it and that the faults have been fixed properly rather than waiting for faults to show up!
You could put in an awful lot of nice extras for what you look set to lose if you walk away from it. I agree with Trevorf, the faults all sound fixable and most motorhomes are quite high maintenance...
If no, then the best advice I can give you is to check with the trading standards people for the exact words but it is along the lines of "the goods are not of serviceable quality" or "not fit for purpose". After that has been said to Discover, your next step is via solicitor's letter. But beware, you may well spend more money winning the battle and certainly a lot of time and stress.
Good luck, either way.
Patrick


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

I can understand your frustration with the problems you have had with your brand new van. If it helps you are not alone!! That said rejecting it should be your very last resort  when all else has failed. Most of your problems I am sure will be fixable albeit it sounds as if it needs a trip to the garage for the engine to be looked at as well. Think have heard of the injector light problem and have a feeling its some sort of download thats needed.

Please, please reconsider getting it sorted, legally that is what your dealer is obliged to do, however if you do accept the a repair write to your dealer and say that although you are allowing the repair to go ahead you reserve the right to reject it if the repair were to fail.

It is an expensive purchase and personally speaking I would go down the repair route first before taking such a financial loss. It is your decision so good luck whatever you decide.


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

I do agree with the other posters the faults can be rectified quite easily,so give them a chance.
Also if it is more serious shouldn't the finance company have a say in the matter.
If you think things are bad you haven't bought a three piece suite recently!!


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## igglepiggle (Nov 7, 2007)

hello if you like the van get it repair as the other say and save money and have a long break


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

You still haven't said how old it is, or mileage.... I noticed carolgavin said brand new, but a Lunar Roadstar 780 at around £32k is not new.

I would also reckon you wouldn't get the full amount back, you have used it, put on miles, and it is now older than when you bought it, all things they will find to reduce the price, as to accessories, well I doubt they would reimburse you for them, unfortunately.

As others say, give them a chance, take carolgavin's advice re the letter, but at least try to sort it.

Legal route is really NOT where you want to go....

Best of luck

Carol

Could a mod move this to the Lunar forum please


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Minor*



trevorf said:


> To be honest most of the faults sound pretty minor compared to the experience of many on this forum. I would give them the chance to fix them.
> 
> I know it is annoying to have paid out a large sum of money only to have problems but motorhomes are complex machines and some teething troubles are quite normal on a new van. If you swap it for another you are quite likely to get similar issues.


Yes have to agree with Trev, they do seem pretty minor. I have had numerous vehicles with horendous faults, one of which could have caused multiple fatalities. I would document calls/visits to the dealer and allow them time to put the matter right. In an ideal world faults would not occur. However, in the real world with such a complex piece of equipment, they will and sometimes very often. Thats why many of us are here so often.

Trev.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

carol said:


> You still haven't said how old it is, or mileage.... I noticed carolgavin said brand new, but a Lunar Roadstar 780 at around £32k is not new.
> 
> I would also reckon you wouldn't get the full amount back, you have used it, put on miles, and it is now older than when you bought it, all things they will find to reduce the price, as to accessories, well I doubt they would reimburse you for them, unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Whoops sorry carol just assumed it was a new van!!!!


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Trust me- after my Marquis Autocruise your motorhome sounds ok. Stick with it.


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your tale of woe.

I agree with others. I would have it fixed. Why loose over £5000 trading it in? If you like the van, apart from the faults, of course, keep it and get it repaired. It will end up a whole lot cheaper. In the current financial climate it makes sense.

Perhaps if you get the faults fixed and still don't trust it, sell it. You certainly won't lose as much as you will now.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

The test is simple

Is it fit for purpose?

If not you can reject, if it is fit but has defects which can be repaired simply and quickly then you cannot reject and you must allow the supplier to repair

Most of what you complain of is irratating and minor, faulty warning lights are not enough to make unfit, neither is a missing screw

The engine may or may not be serious, if it won't go its unfit for transportation purpose, but you must allow one chance, and one chance only, to put right. Tell them that, one chance only. if they attempt repair and can't/don't, then you reject

You should get back your money, less an allowance for having had and used it for a period plus an uplift for work done by you to improve, but not the full cost, and, if they knew you were financing, the penalty.

As its on finance it belongs to the finance company, not you, you are renting it at present, so you must tell the finance company and if you do reject, you can threaten to deliver it to them. You must keep the finance compnay in the loop, after all the deal is, whatever the log book says, Dealer sells to finance company who lease or rent to you. So the obligations are shared by the finace company, that is good argument for no early settlement penalty, at least. The finance compnay will not want the evehivle back, so get them on side to exercise pressure on the dealer

Finally start a day book, a pad in which you record everythng, everything that goes wrong, with times, every call, letter, conversation. if you speak in person immediately write down what was said and e-mail or write to both dealer and finance compnay confirming what was said/agreed/ If you have to go to court you will have a written record, unless they replied saying oh no that is not what we said/discussed, who is judgy going to believe


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

The point is whether the issues are minor or major why are they not found out by the dealers before the sale. What does pdi actually mean. "Postpone doing inspection" until someone dies.

If things break after you have had it then of course stuff can be mended but when you take delivery, everything should be fitted working and tested.

Minor decribes a thing easily rectified. Being out of petrol is minor but if you can't go anywhere the effect is major.


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Pusser said:


> The point is whether the issues are minor or major why are they not found out by the dealers before the sale. What does pdi actually mean. "Postpone doing inspection" until someone dies.
> 
> .


What is involved in a PDI. My clutch went after 600 miles and the PDIing garage couldn't get it on their lift so how did they check the undercarriage Brake pipe integrity,supension secrity of mountings etc.?


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Sounds to me like you bought the wrong van, have changed your minds and want your money back.

The issues you have with the van are minor. (a screw missing on a secondhand van!) Get them fixed at no cost to you and get on with using it.

People are always buying the wrong van. They either live with it or take a bit hit and change for something else.


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Pusser exactly well said! 

The Van is a 2004.

The screw mising from the glass sink cover prevents me from using the sink and has already crashed down on my wrist nearly breaking it and causing me pain even still. its a large sink cover. How could they miss something so obvious as it won't stay up.

If they can miss the blatently obvious which they claim to have checked what about the habitation check. What have they missed.

Another issue was the seal around the loo (wetroom) was completely away from the wall so everytime you shower plenty of water goes down and as everyone knows damp is not what you want in a van and we couldn't just bring it straight back in to put right properly for at least a week. 

The LPG gas gauge works when it wants to and in this weather I don't call it a minor problem running out of heat in the night, or not being able to cook.

The engine fault light could be minor or could be major, our last motorhome a newmar dutchstar had an engine light come on, and our van was in the shop over a month trying to sort it out which is why we feel we shouldn't have that worry when we just bought the van and they talked about all the great pre tests they do and not to worry.

And Dave if when we asked the questions about the van we were told correct info I would say the van could be fit for purpose but the truth of the matter is its not.

We asked to see the gas bottle which they showed and said yes it runs on gas bottles but it doesn't as they realised during the handover thats all disconnected for some kind of in van lpg system but it holds like a day and a half of LPG so we are constantly having to get it refilled, which costs alot of money in diesal! Hassle! Time!

We wanted to be able to travel around Europe and he said yes yes this vans perfect for that but we would have to go get some pipes or something fitted (never really explained) so we can use gas bottles again. Why shouldn't it just do what we were told it does???? Is that too much to ask? 

The fact that the van is only good for being on electric hookup as well doesn't mean it can do what we asked them. It has an EMC relay which means you turn the van on and all power to the motorhome goes out.

So we are dependant on sites, thats not what we asked for specifically and not what we were promised. We told him we wanted to have the freedom of being on a site or not.

We asked all the right questions before buying, but they never know the answer and most of the answers we have been given have turned out to be completely wrong so we do feel entitled to our money back.

We sorted out finance but decided not to go ahead with the more expensive van as the interest rate was a joke and losing over £5000 on our van is not acceptable.

I have asked repeatedly for the full T's and C's of all their warranties, and I get fobbed off and fobbed off and told one day oh its on the website (its not) next time I am told to call their main number whom was shocked I was coming to them as the dealership should have them and finally gave them to me over the phone after much effort from me.

If the VAN could even do half of what we were assured it did then maybe all the other problems wouldn't be such a problem. But we never would have bought the van had we realised all the faults or that it was not fit for our purposes as we were promised.

Whats crazy is I went to a few other Discover dealerships and lack of info seemed the standard. There is 1 branch that seems really good so maybe we can deal with them. At the cannock branch you ask questions on a van and you are given the manu brochure but that doesn't answer all the questions I asked.

1 day I brought up the cut off of electrics in the habitational side and was told I was wrong. :roll: Yet after we read the manual and spoke to lunar we were indeed right. Apparently all UK vans are fitted with that and european models aren't which means we should have been directed towards a european model since the leisure battery doesn't charge when you just turn the ignition and it doesn't last long.

Oh and a light they checked for us last week and said it had no fault well it still didn't work when we got the van back and now it just decided to work yesterday so there seems to be some kind of electrics problem.

The bottom line is if they say these are easily fixed Minor things why not just take the Van back and let us have our money back. I've asked for that since day 9 of having the van.

We had gotten some money off the price of the van when we bought it so if they sell it at the sale price £28,995 then they get to sell a better Van and make the same money. Why do we need to be out of pocket? They can get the same money, keep us happy and be done with it so why do I have to fight for a refund?

Its not like we have had it for months. I've asked for a refund as no other van they have comes close to the Lunar we had.

So we'll see. My husband and I love Motorhomes if we have to we wil just save up and get a brand new 1 at least the chances of it failing within a week are unlikely.

Our other Motorhome was a big problem child "money Pit" and I do not want to go down that route again of having a van that spends more time in a garage being fixed than in our garage.

Their site makes it sound as though even if your just unhappy with the layout you can have their "money back guarentee", yet when we try to get it we are told you need something really serious to happen first which is a lie because the girl on the main number told me the T's and C's and thats not true. Being lied to doesn't give us any faith in them or how the van was inspected.

Like when we bought the Paintseal treatment which we were told its a 5 year guarentee, come to find out Nope its 3 years with a used van so we get 2 whole years less protection because we were lied to. Nice.....


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## dees46ex (Jul 31, 2008)

*lunar*

dear brettandangie
i am sorry to hear of the difficulties you have hadAs others have said it would be best to fix the problems rather than incur the extra cost of changeing.From the sound of it you may have a gaslow or similer system fitted,if so.it is important to be sure that your gas tank is completely full.I recall being told that it would not fill completely the first time of useing,but would thereafter.With a fill of gas of even 1x 13kg tank you should get at least a weeks worth of heat and cooking.
In regard to the power in the habitation being off while moving,that is, sadly a uk requirement,but when the van is stopped and turned off it should be possible to switch to your habitation battery for lights tv,satellite etc.It is also possible to add a second recreation battery and you would then have at least a few days power without hookup or having to run the engine.
I know what it is like to be so disapointed with an expensive purchase,but these things are sorteable or workroundable(sorry about that word but you know wat i mean)if you can just step back from the anxiety for a wee minute.Im sure if you go to the dealers and see if things can be resolved calmly,they will be.Anyway best of luck with this and let us know ow you get on
kind rgards
damien purcell


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## LionelG6HXW (Apr 19, 2006)

I'm on my fourth motorhome over a number of years. I've not known any that haven't had initial problems. One was serious enough to put it off the road for 43 days whilst it was sorted out back in May 2000. A gearbox problem.

My current one purchased from new has also had it's fair share of annoying faults. But each one was put right under warranty by my dealer (Sussex Caravan Centre) or by a local dealer whilst on holiday with the go ahead given by SCC.

Always handled with good humour by both parties. Perhaps that is often the way to go from my past experience. I can list a number of things on my Elddis Autoquest 120 that went wrong that might make some owners ask for their money back. Like mains plug sockets that come away from the wall when taking the plug out. Very alarming.

If it was me I'd get it fixed. The Burstner surely must have been what you wanted originally. Better the devil you know. Only you can decide though.


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## LionelG6HXW (Apr 19, 2006)

Did I say Burstner? Sorry got confused over the make.

Lionel


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

Our present van was new last nov cost £46000 after travelling 2 miles noticed stone chip to windscreen. Took straight back to dealer and he was going to replace screen! what was the point would probably had another chip in next 5000 miles so had chip repaired!
there where 3 outstanding recalls on fiat side, 2 bathroom lights with intermittent fault 2 lights stopped working over bed, door retaining catch broke,complete wood trim missing to dash, After 2500 mile trip to spain we had a recall to have extra leaf added to rear springs. All little niggely things but we got over it. Now done 6500 miles and just of to spain / portugal for another 3000 miles.
Let them put it right and enjoy your new motorhome.   
Steve


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Husband and I had long talks, and I said look I am fed up with the whole thing and for an easier life maybe we should get the Lunar repaired as we do love it and to be honest the Burstner more expensive model I liked far less than the Lunar.

But he reminded me of how we managed to get the Van in to them for the 3 hours they were open the other weekend and in 3 hours they still did not sort the fault in the kitchen light even though we were told when tested it wasn't faulty.

Its the large kitchen light which I need to really use the kitchen for cooking but we got it back and for it being faultless it still didn't switch on and days later it has decided to work so it obviously has a fault and it hasn't been put right though they said it had.

This onboard LPG thing as well gets full each time and even though he has been in it by himself and he is working 10 hours away from the van during the day and at night he goes to bed by 11 so the gas isn't on long it doesn't last longer than 2 days and he doesn't have a petrol station with the gas point nearby where he stays. Its just not good enough. He is lucky to get £5/£6 of LPG in it and I still find it odd that he still goes through that much in 2 days.

I thank everyone for the advice but for these things to happen after a supposed thorough test well its obvious the van was never checked. Maybe valeted but not checked for anything being wrong. The water took forever to drain in the van which was scary in the wetroom in case it leaked over into the bedroom but at least they seem to have managed to fix that the other week. But why was that not checked to begin with is yet another mystery.

This is the wording from their "money back guarentee" as shown on the website.

"Let’s be honest, it’s a big decision and investment buying a caravan or motorhome. While we will give you as much advice and support as we can in the lead up to your purchase, if you are not happy with the vehicle you have chosen we will give you your money back. Obviously terms and conditions apply to this offer, call us for details."

When I finally got the T's and C's we should be entitled to it and I have asked and asked for it but still we fight on. Why put that kind of guarentee out there to make people feel at ease when its a lie. 

Just like paintseal doesn't cover 5 years on used vans.

We'll see what tomorrow brings...... :wink: 
I thank everyone for the advice though, and we look forward to our next motorhome which hopefully will not be faulty, at least in the 1st month of purchase.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Reading this thread, it's clear that you don't understand some of the technical aspects of motorhomes. Not necessarily your fault and your dealer should be able to explain some of the complex bits a lot more clearly than he obviously has. I'm interested in your gas problem in particular.

It's being assumed that you have a Gaslow system fitted but you say you run out of gas every 2 days and can only get a small amount of gas in the bottles when you fill up. This is clearly not right and brings to mind a well known phenomena with autogas used for winter heating, particularly when the bottles have been filled overseas in the recent past.

In the UK, autogas is usually made up of almost 100% propane, however in other countries it can contain a large proportion of butane. The problem is that butane will not evaporate at low temperatures so what happens is that in cold weather all the propane in the gas mixture evaporates but the butane does not. As you keep refilling the tank, the proportion of butane increases every fill-up and eventually you have a full tank of butane which will not evaporate - but is preventing you putting any more gas in the tank.

Let's presume that before you bought the van it has been used overseas. It may be that your bottles are almost full with butane which will not evaporate in this weather but is preventing you putting more gas in?

Speak to your dealer about that theory.

As for rejecting the van, from what you're saying I don't think you have any grounds to legally reject it. If the dealer has some form of money back pledge in their T&Cs then perhaps that's possible but if you intended to go through the courts I don't think you have a case. My advice, like most of the others would be to stick with it, your problems all sound easily resolved with a bit of goodwill and cooperation from your dealer.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Discover*

Hi

There are quite a lot of good reports re Discover on this website. One refers to an Autotrail owned by an MHF'er and how/what Discover did to get it right. It is fair to say though maybe it should/could have been right then first time around.

Do Discover still have their money back guarantee?

Here is the info from their website.

http://www.discover.co.uk/servicesandaftercare

Russell

My own view is, if other aspects of the van are right for you, get the niggles repaired. Then, set off to spain or somewhere sunny for a week or two.


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## mike800966 (May 1, 2005)

*Gas Problem*

I agree with Gaspode, that could well be the problem.
The next thing is what to do about it. If the cylinders do not have a mechanical gauge mounted in the top of them then it can be hard to know exactly how much is in them. 
As he says the two types of gas are usually reserved for summer or winter use, butane in liquid form, which is how it is in the cylinder, tends to just sit there in the winter and refuses to give of any gas until you get up to perhaps +10 degrees C. Whereas liquid propane gives off vapour(gas) from about -10degrees.

In the absence of a mechanical gauge the simplest test is simply to park it somewhere warm, just in the sun with the warmth raising the bottle temperature and the gas should start to flow. The refiilable systems will ahve several one way (non return) valves in the pipework and cylinders so the easiest way to get the gas out is to use it. By the way I would only try to burn it off at the cooker hob, where you can see whats happening, the fridge and heating boiler is far to complex and valuable to try to make it work on what I have heard referred to as "Bad French Gas"

To be flippant for a moment thats why folk on butane, blue bottles have late breakfasts in the winter!

Best of luck with the other problems, best to knock them off gradually, one by one.

Mike & Ann


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi sorry to hear about your problems,the best way I can see / advise is to make a list 
prob 1 ? 
prob 2 ? 
etc, give said list to dealer in order for them to order spares etc,then arrange a day to have repairs done.Before you drive off check your list one by one that the said repairs have been done.Then put it all behind you and enjoy  
To stop this problem happening to others may I suggest that you check everything is ok before leaving the dealers and handing over yur cash !! if everything is not ok then hold some money back untill it is fixed.Gone are the days when another punter will buy what you reject,and in the present climate cash is king
terry


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

having sufered myself with a van that had plenty of problems(34) I can understand how you feel.Firstly I should point out that you should contact CAB if you really wish to go down the route of trying to return the vehicle, you will find that if you have taken out finance, depending on what type, it may well be that the van is the property of the finance company until you have finished payments. Make a list of the faults and send this to the finance co, asking them to get the dealer to properly sort them out or you want to have a refund.make sure all letters are recorded or registered.
You will find it will be easier to have all the faults done and be happy with the van that you first chose than try to juggle around to one you will not like and loose money.
I have been there and travelled the route and it is not only extremely difficult but nigh on impossible.

cabby


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

It is a gas flow system gaspode and we have no way of knowing if it had been filled with Butane but to be fair the van has seen some very warm days since we had it and so that shouldn't be the issue as it runs the same warm or cold days.

Its a rubbish system since you depend on finding a LPG station and thats not easy where hubby is especially after working all day. Whereas little red/blue gas bottles are available everywhere.

The vans not fit for our purposes and Discover still offer a "money back guarentee" but its laughable because they won't give it to you.

How can we trust a dealer that has told us so many lies? The Sale of Goods act states the item should be fit for purpose and it never has been fit for purpose since we got it.

Most faults can easily be put right on a Motorhome so we do fully understand as we are far from Motorhome novices but our previous dealer lied to us and we got stuck with a Van which didn't do everything we were promised it did and it was problematic so we do not plan on going down that route again.

The Van is only suitable for sites with hookup and even if we get another leisure battery fitted it will still be the same as once they die we then have 2 batteries to try and charge which means even longer drives for no other purpose than because we were lied to about what our van could do.

Why should we have to waste our time and money because we were lied to? I can't drive a manual which means after hubby works long hours he has to drive around charging batteries. Its not on.

I am now dealing with head office so we'll see what they have to say.


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Ripped Off!*



brettnangie said:


> We have had problems from the start with our motorhome which we have only had for a few weeks.
> 
> An engine light which is saying injector issues, my hubby is getting loss of power, the soil full alarm beeps even after I just emptied it and waste water, the LPG gas gauge works when it wants to, the glass cover for the sink is missing a screw so crashed down on my wrist nearly breaking it, and so on and so on.
> 
> ...


If you're happy with the van you've bought, in a nutshell, I believe you should give them a chance to fix these irritating but fairly minor faults... I had a similar situation & it worked out fine....Good luck


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

brettnangie said:


> It is a gas flow system gaspode and we have no way of knowing if it had been filled with Butane but to be fair the van has seen some very warm days since we had it and so that shouldn't be the issue as it runs the same warm or cold days.
> 
> Its a rubbish system since you depend on finding a LPG station and thats not easy where hubby is especially after working all day. Whereas little red/blue gas bottles are available everywhere.
> 
> ...


....Ok Ok if you were lied to on issues, I'd go "the limit" with that Dealer. Good luck,,again


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

brettnangie said:


> It is a gas flow system gaspode and we have no way of knowing if it had been filled with Butane but to be fair the van has seen some very warm days since we had it and so that shouldn't be the issue as it runs the same warm or cold days.
> 
> Its a rubbish system since you depend on finding a LPG station and thats not easy where hubby is especially after working all day. Whereas little red/blue gas bottles are available everywhere.


I (and hundreds of others who have gaslow systems fitted) would argue against the statement that gaslow is a "rubbish system". We have had ours for nearly 3 years, and it's easy to refill (you apparently have problems as has been noted) - our 11kg container takes about 20 litres from almost empty, and it lasts for several weeks - we look out for filling stations along the way, and top up as and when. We don't have to lug huge cylinders in & out of the 'van and it's about half the cost of the equivalent Calor product in cylinders. LPG is available over most of Europe so you don;t have to worry about either carting enough Calor cylinders to last you, or getting hold of foreign cylinders and regulators.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

You have the wrong end of the stick on so many points! 

I would get the idea from reading this that you have changed your mind.

I should put the idea out of your head that you will get all of your money back, plus extra as it just wont happen.

You wont run out of gas with a gas tank anymore that you would with a bottle. it would be easy to swap back, loads of members here would grab your system and pay for the replacement pipes! But this was what was fitted when you looked at this second hand van. Had they removed the GasGlow system and replaced it with pipes, regulator and a bottle no doubt that would be wrong.

EMC relays only operate when the engine is running, this does not mean that you have to stay on campsites with, or without hook up (unless you intend to keep your engine running all night)

Why not pop along to the next MHFacts rally, loads of people will happily show you how things work, and what's what

Eddie  (none of this is meant in a derogatory way)


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

The gas system you have is considered a up grade from the red/blue bottles you exchange
As for the battery, you don't say how long you husband is away from home, if it is for more than a day or 2, NO van can rely on battery power only, in the winter.
Hope you get it sorted.

Charlie


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

brettnangie said:


> The Van is a 2004.


So it's 4 years old - I have a couple of bits missing from my 4 year old car



brettnangie said:


> The screw missing from the glass sink cover prevents me from using the sink and has already crashed down on my wrist nearly breaking it and causing me pain even still. its a large sink cover. How could they miss something so obvious as it won't stay up.


Well, it would appear you also missed it to be fair!



brettnangie said:


> Another issue was the seal around the loo (wetroom) was completely away from the wall so everytime you shower plenty of water goes down and as everyone knows damp is not what you want in a van and we couldn't just bring it straight back in to put right properly for at least a week.


Fair comment - it needs sorting, it is four years old after all



brettnangie said:


> The LPG gas gauge works when it wants to and in this weather I don't call it a minor problem running out of heat in the night, or not being able to cook.


You don't have gauges on standard Propane bottles, you guess normally. OK so you usually have a backup, but you still don't know how much is in it, not without weighing it anyway.



brettnangie said:


> The engine fault light could be minor or could be major, our last motorhome a newmar dutchstar had an engine light come on, and our van was in the shop over a month trying to sort it out which is why we feel we shouldn't have that worry when we just bought the van and they talked about all the great pre tests they do and not to worry.


That was your old "money pit" van, again yes it's a problem, it needs sorting, but unless the light was there on handover or the test drive you probably took, how was Discover supposed to know it was going to happen?



brettnangie said:


> And Dave if when we asked the questions about the van we were told correct info I would say the van could be fit for purpose but the truth of the matter is its not.


I would say it generally is, harsh as this may sound



brettnangie said:


> We asked to see the gas bottle which they showed and said yes it runs on gas bottles but it doesn't as they realised during the handover thats all disconnected for some kind of in van lpg system but it holds like a day and a half of LPG so we are constantly having to get it refilled, which costs alot of money in diesal! Hassle! Time!


Check what capacity the gas bottle is, it should be marked on, & then follow the advice given by a couple of people on here. Alternatively, if Discover missed the fact that it was on Gaslow, get them to supply the tails regulator to convert it back to standard bottles.



brettnangie said:


> We wanted to be able to travel around Europe and he said yes yes this vans perfect for that but we would have to go get some pipes or something fitted (never really explained) so we can use gas bottles again. Why shouldn't it just do what we were told it does???? Is that too much to ask?


I would think you can travel round Europe, just get Gaslow continental adaptors, just like you may need a 2 pin adaptor for hookup



brettnangie said:


> The fact that the van is only good for being on electric hookup as well doesn't mean it can do what we asked them. It has an EMC relay which means you turn the van on and all power to the motorhome goes out.
> 
> So we are dependant on sites, thats not what we asked for specifically and not what we were promised. We told him we wanted to have the freedom of being on a site or not.


Our habitation power also goes out when the ignition is on - it's a requirement in the UK apparently, but if you want 12v you can always run an extension from the cab 12v socket. You still don't need to be on hookup though, just select & run off your leisure battery, & buy another leisure battery if required. We were up in Mull recently & did 4 days without any problems with no hookup on just one 120Ah battery, just powering the water pump, lighting, & cab radio, we don't have a tv etc..



brettnangie said:


> We asked all the right questions before buying, but they never know the answer and most of the answers we have been given have turned out to be completely wrong so we do feel entitled to our money back.


So why did you purchase without being happy that your questions had been answered?



brettnangie said:


> The bottom line is if they say these are easily fixed Minor things why not just take the Van back and let us have our money back. I've asked for that since day 9 of having the van.
> 
> Its not like we have had it for months. I've asked for a refund as no other van they have comes close to the Lunar we had.


If they are easily fixed things, why don't you give them a chance to fix them? It is, after all a second hand van, & they're prepared to sort out a few things that have missed by you whilst looking round the van & by them on the PDI / handover



brettnangie said:


> Their site makes it sound as though even if your just unhappy with the layout you can have their "money back guarentee", yet when we try to get it we are told you need something really serious to happen first which is a lie because the girl on the main number told me the T's and C's and thats not true. Being lied to doesn't give us any faith in them or how the van was inspected.
> 
> Like when we bought the Paintseal treatment which we were told its a 5 year guarentee, come to find out Nope its 3 years with a used van so we get 2 whole years less protection because we were lied to. Nice.....


Again, did you not ask for the full T&C before you purchased? Anyone can be told about a guarantee, but you need to see it in writing!

I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, but it does sound to me more like you've changed your mind, rather than there being a big problem with the van. You say you're very experienced motorhomers, but appear to have made some extremely basic errors - stuff that even I checked when looking for my first van earlier this year, with no knowledge at all, & I don't mean to gloat when I say that

Regarding the Money Back warranty - if it genuinely is a 30 no quibble then by all means get your money back if you've made the wrong decision, but don't try to do it based on, to be fair, what is a small list of niggles, rather than what is turning out to be a rant.

Keep your chin up - get your problems sorted & enjoy your van!


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

brettnangie said:


> Its a rubbish system since you depend on finding a LPG station and thats not easy where hubby is especially after working all day. Whereas little red/blue gas bottles are available everywhere.


If you can't live with that Gaslow system, just pop around to my place with the van and I'll be absolutely delighted to remove and dispose of it for you and swap it for two nice red ordinary, swappable, full Calor bottles - all at absolutely no charge whatsoever, done while you wait. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

gaspode said:


> brettnangie said:
> 
> 
> > Its a rubbish system since you depend on finding a LPG station and thats not easy where hubby is especially after working all day. Whereas little red/blue gas bottles are available everywhere.
> ...


And if Gaspodes house is to far i'll do the same 8O :lol: :lol:


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

The phrase "customer from hell" springs to mind.

Bet the dealers on here are hoping they can avoid them.


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Well if we are Customers from Hell so be it, just give us our money and we will be happy to go elsewhere. No need to be rude Dave we are entitled to feel how we feel. You may think its ok to be lied to but we don't.

I haven't listed all the faults or problems or lies we have been told so I understand some want to side with the dealer but I don't have time to put the entire list of complaints down believe me as I get told different stories daily by the same people.

Today was a good laugh though, really good. We don't meet the money back guarentee terms because we didn't return it in 10 days. But when we asked to return it within 10 days we are told No.

And what other requirement do we not meet.... oh its at their discretion if they give it to you. I had asked for the full T's and C's but they would not give it to me, my husband and I never imagined we would actually need to use it. Shoulda been alarm bells but when I first asked for it I was given a booklet and told it was in there, and when I found out it wasn't I was told its on the website and when it wasn't there and I finally needed it I just do not get it.

Just because a Motorhome is 4 years old you should not expect everything to be wrong and for bits to be missing after being promised it would be in "new" condition. It only had 17,000 miles on it it's not like it had 50,000 miles and was well used.

I don't understand people keep saying it sounds like we changed our minds about the VAN? If we hadn't been lied to about the Van suiting our needs then we would probably deal with the repairs.

Theres even a solar panel on the van and yet the leisure battery is useless and if lucky lasts 24 hours. Even with 2 leisure batteries because we cannot just turn on the Ignition to charge the leisure battery or use the habitational side of things the Lunar really is no good to us.

The Chausson and Burstners seem to have the feature we need which is the ability to charge the leisure batteries from the cab ignition and you can use all the lights or TV with the ignition on.

And anyone can have the gas flo system as its rubbish, I have been told though today that it may be the fact that we have a very small bottle but we would rather have the 2 gas bottles so at least when you run out on 1, you have another and can easily find them unlike finding LPG in this country. 

We never use the TV because we never have enough battery for it. We're lucky to have 1 light to use in the evening. :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

brettnangie said:


> I have been told though today that it may be the fact that we have a very small bottle . . .


I'd say you have an awful lot of bottle to carry on like this in the face of some very expert comments challenging your assertions.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

brettnangie said:


> Theres even a solar panel on the van and yet the leisure battery is useless and if lucky lasts 24 hours. Even with 2 leisure batteries because we cannot just turn on the Ignition to charge the leisure battery or use the habitational side of things the Lunar really is no good to us.
> 
> The Chausson and Burstners seem to have the feature we need which is the ability to charge the leisure batteries from the cab ignition and you can use all the lights or TV with the ignition on.
> 
> And anyone can have the gas flo system as its rubbish, I have been told though today that it may be the fact that we have a very small bottle but we would rather have the 2 gas bottles so at least when you run out on 1, you have another and can easily find them unlike finding LPG in this country. :roll:


It's always difficult when you only hear one side of the story, but from your posts it is obvious that you need to understand the systems you have and the options for making the van do what you want it to do. I get the impression that the dealers and yourselves may have been talking at cross purposes. He may have thought he understand what you wanted and you may have thought he understood but that is clearly not the case. Lies? I am not so sure.

Solar Panel - a good feature towards being self sufficient but unlikely to be terribly efficient in the UK in wintertime.

Leisure battery - with no telly should last a minimum of 3 days but you need to understand what sort of power you are drawing with any of the items you have switched on. Also needs to be fully recharged after use and a short drive will not do than with any van.

Your van does charge the leisure battery when the engine is running just the same as a Chausson or Burstner. Using "all the lights" may also be your problem = if they are halogens then you'll be drawing a lot of power out of the battery.

Gaslow. A better system than Calor especially for foreign travel. Calor bottles cannot be exchanged outside of the UK. If you only have one Gaslow bottle then add another. Have you seen the list of outlets that sell LPG?

You would be far better off having your current van sorted and asking questions on this forum about how to maximise your use from what you have got. A Chausson or Burstner will not solve any of your problems.

JohnW
(Edited because I missed out the text!)


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

As Gaspode and Rislar I,ll supply 2 propane bottles & hoses even a bottle of red wine! all free of course in exchange for your gaslow system
But I bet the first time you have to lug a 13kg bottle of propane to the van in the pouring rain and connect it up you will be saying what on earth was I moaning about.

Steve


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

2 leisure batteries only lasting 24 hr with solar panel as well! probably being 4 years old if not looked after there knackered. we have never managed to flatten our 2 batteries even after 6 days with no hookup or solar panel and I do not run the engine just to charge them it would take ages. Something else to put on list


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

"we cannot just turn on the Ignition to charge the leisure battery or use the habitational side of things the Lunar really is no good to us".

I just don't understand this. It is fitted with a habitation relay and I have had several caravans which operate exactly the same way. With the engine running the 12v habitational system is disconnected from the leisure battery and the alternator then charges it and runs the fridge. When the engine is switched off the leisure battery is reconnected to the habitation 12vi system.

Am I missing something? I'm really interested as over the years I have become very adept at diagnosing caravan electrical problems.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

](*,)


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

I think you are right eddie :twisted: :twisted:


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Do they mean that they want to run their habitation systems from the vehicle battery? This is possible on many new vans, I can do it on my Autotrail, just switch from Leisure Battery to Vehicle Battery on the control panel within the van.

Good thread though,


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Am I being dense? I've read through this & still can't see what lies the dealer has told?
Obviously the customer is unhappy - but it really does come across that they didn't check what they were buying. I know nothing of this gasflow system - but the rush to take it off these peoples hands tells me all I think I need to know! As for the battery thing - well 4 unknown years sounds like a reasonable lifespan to me - surely it just needs swapping out - something I'd of thought the dealer might once of been happy to do.
It's a legal obligation to supply T&C's - however it's the customers need to read them - & anyone with a modicum of sense surely must read them before handing over £20k+ - heck I even insisted I had a snooze & a brew in our van before we bought it  

Customer from Hell? maybe harsh - customer who didn't check what they were buying & now wants it to be someone else's fault...


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

Hi brettnangie

You probably don't need another lecture, but would just add:

A lot of very caring MHF subscribers have done what they are great at: Helping others based on their own experience, knowledge and technical expertise

Thanks to the kindly folk who have taken the time to respond to my concerns in the past I have been saved from making rash decisions

I truly hope you make the decision that you feel the most happy with

Just for the beans - as a technophobic, non-mechanical over reactive pessimist, I would in light of the support given keep the van and try to improve my relationship with the dealer

That said I really do sympathise with you and hope you get it sorted

O


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

BRETTNANGIE - sorry, don't mean to be rude, bit blunt maybe but not rude.

I have just re-read all your postings. I think that if you wish to make a positive impact on a forum you would be better to restrict the text to the facts and thereby keep the subject to the point and a little shorter in length. Your postings aren't easy to read.

May I suggest that you post again and limit the post to the actual faults that are outstanding on the van, ie

1. Faulty kitchen light
2. Faulty Gaslow system
3. ....

etc.

Leave out the emotive bits about liars etc and just furnish us with the cold facts, preferably numbered as above. We'll then have a better understanding of your problems. Trying to be helpful.

Dave


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Brett and Angie.

If you come down to us we will explain how everything works, hopefully sort out your problems and make you happy.

Obviously we cannot do it FOC apart from the advice but it will be unbiased and from people who know the answers.

Regards

Peter


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

As a Lunar owner myself, my 2006 'van has a few idiosyncrasies but nothing that is a showstopper. I think that there is misunderstaning here as the faults are pretty minor. Maybe the dealer didn't explain, maybe the buyer didn't push hard enough for explanation, I don't know.

A visit to a recent local Dethleffs dealer with a great reputation for customer service elicited the following quote:

"There is nothing on this earth as difficult as a buyer with time on his hands, a few niggles and some computer literacy. Why don't they just come and talk to us and see what the problem really is?"

I'm not saying that is your case, but the advice to talk reasonably is very good advice.

Oh, and if the cap fits, then wear it.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

averhamdave said:


> Do they mean that they want to run their habitation systems from the vehicle battery? This is possible on many new vans, I can do it on my Autotrail, just switch from Leisure Battery to Vehicle Battery on the control panel within the van.


I can do that on my older van too but as you well know you run the risk of having two flat batteries then and no means of getting home!

JohnW


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks to Otto , Peter and Dave and everyone for the comments.

I guess frustration makes my posts ramble on.

If any experts on here can help our van do what we need it to then I would be happy to hear! John thanks so much for the offer as well as we may take you up on that.

I will post the most important problem.

Problem 1. When the power runs low on the leisure battery which is roughly within 24 hours we want to be able to turn on the engine and still have use of lights/12 volt/TV in the Motorhome side. We know it doesn't charge much as if we were on hookup but our last Van charged the leisure battery quite well on short bursts of turning the ignition and we could use the interior electrics while sat on a campsite with the engine running.

The bottom line is we do not want to be sat around in the evening in the dark. There are power saving lights in the Van but even with minimal amounts of the lights on, we usually end up with just 1 on to save the battery as it's a constant battle with the leisure battery. As the Solar Panel was pre fitted apparently it was never checked over as working and so we have no idea how it even works as they couldn't tell us when we asked. We're trying to find details on the web.

There also seems to be no way to switch to leisure battery once the ignition is turned.

Problem 2. The Gasflo System. That can be sorted via the dealer if need be. We have a nice big garage so on longer trips in Europe we can always stow another 2 bottles easily. He is currently in Hampshire and the nearest petrol station gas point is like 20 mins away and sometimes they are out and he has to travel for like 45 minutes to find one. There are probably some in between but it's having the time to go find them.

Our newmar dutchstar had a similar system and in the end he got the fittings so we could use a gas bottle instead and that was much better and the gas lasted longer. What may work for some does not work for everyone. Gasflo is definitely not for us.

I think our problem has been as well we were too trusting of everything we were told at the dealers and whether we were lied to or it was a mistake maybe they didn't realise they gave us wrong info etc... we still feel let down. I guess we are naive, we thought we did everything right especially after our last RV but I guess you only learn from experience.

Anyone want to buy a Lunar Roadstar 780 £28,000??? Thats the easier option. :wink: The dealer assures us it can be fully repaired and its a lovely Van......so anyone interested please let me know.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

Hi i have just looked at the go-autogas.com website and it lists 25 refueling stations for LPG in Hampshire and for Shropshire 20. Hope this is of some use to you in your current situation. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Brettnangie,

OK I feel we may be getting somewhere now. With regard to problem 1 have you thought about buying and using a generator? They can be annoying to neighbours but used sensibly and sparingly would enable you to do what you want. It would help to recharge the battery and enable use of TV etc. It's accepted that they would normally be turned off by 10.00pm even if there are no rules on site to say so.

Problem 2. Have you looked at the website Chasper has indicated? There may be one or two Autogas stations that you didn't know about. I have one locally that I pass every day but I didn't realise it sold gas until I printed out the list of stations. I still think it's a more convenient system than separate bottles. I can almost guarantee that the bottle will run out when you least want it to  

JohnW


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

I'm very far from knowledgeable about these things - but what you describe with your battery just sounds wrong. We regularly get through a long weekend with lights, waterpump, heating fan & dvd player on 1 85AH battery. In addition to this we've just had another 85AH fitted into the van for under £80 which we think will let us last a week. I'd get the battery checked (would have thought it would be a warranty item). 
As for the Gasflo - take up one of the offers on here & use it as an opportunity to meet some like minded people who might be able to help with your other issues.


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## dees46ex (Jul 31, 2008)

*lunar*

hello again brettandangie
the offer from johnscrossmotorhomes is a good one.He is well regarded on this forum.Someone who will spend some time going through the varoius systems with you and explaining hoe it all works would be helpful.The lunar is a nice van and when the difficulties are sorted i am sure you will enjoy it very much.The people on this forum represent an amazing resevoir of expertise and good common sense,but when one is angry and upset it hinders clear thinking.I reckon if you list the points that need addressed then visit johnscross
he will tell you what can be expected from the original dealer,and what he might suggest to add to the van to make it do what you want it to.
keep in touch and best of luck
kind regards
damien purcell


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Damien is absolutely right Angie (I presume it's Angie)

There is a huge reservoir of expertise on here, and members spend a lot of time offering detailed advice and information to anyone who asks.

To be rather blunt, the problem was that you didn't actually ask for much advice. You ranted and complained until members were beginning to get fed up, and once you lose their goodwill it is quite difficult to get it back.

Fortunately there is a lot of it around on this forum (goodwill that is  ) or I wouldn't waste a lot of my time moderating it. 8O 8O

Now you have calmed down a bit _(sorry to sound patronising, but how else can I say it?)_ you probably won't need a visit to John's Cross - good bloke though Peter undoubtably is. 

I suggest you think carefully about each separate problem and ask each question separately, using a "context sensible" title for each new thread.

Nobody will mind how many questions you ask, and I guarantee you will get answers to all of them.

Nothing you have described would bother me or most other members for more than a few seconds, and it can all be fixed very easily. If you can't get it done by your dealer, you did mention in one post that you haggled a decent discount . . . . so be pragmatic and regard that as your "fix it" fund if you need to spend a bit on getting the van to your liking.

If you have changed your mind about the van, own up gracefully. You will not be the first - or the last. You might be surprised how many members have changed their vans two or three times before settling on the "right one for them". Having "owned up" you can then ask for advice on which model may suit you better.

Bear in mind however, that it will cost a whole lot less to fix this van than to swap it for another - which may yet turn out to be only marginally better. 8O

Hope this will help, and if I have upset you it was unintentional.


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks for the Autogas site as that will be helpful as our 1 car also runs off of LPG and we struggle to find a place to fill it.

Sadly my husband is right and there is only 1 station near him, and thats the one that tends to run out of LPG, the next nearest one is Winchester 34.59 miles away which is 45 mins 1 way.

As for a generator well we don't want the hassle or noise really. Maybe new batteries are needed, we'll see.

They are seeing if there is a way around this EMC relay for us and we can go from there. 

And Zeb your right I wasn't really asking for advice to begin with I was having a moan because our lovely motorhome we just picked up had a bunch of faults. I should have read that this wasn't allowed on the forum.

If this was a New Motorhome I am sure people would understand but it appears since it's used we are meant to just accept everything.

Our last engine fault on our previous van cost us thousands and loss of the van for more than a month.I don't call that minor, maybe for people who use a Motorhome as a Holiday vehicle these things are Minor, when that is your husbands home away from home as he full times in it then having so many issues within a week really are not acceptable.

We bought a Motorhome we were assured would be reliable and fully working and the bottom line is thats not what we got. We'll see what happens at least if they can bypass the EMC relay thats a step in the right direction.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I do sympathise with you as when you buy something even second hand you would like it to be perfect but I think we all can forget that we take these homes of ours, with Cookers Fridges and all the wiring involved, out on terrible roads bumping about in potholes etc etc so of coarse things work loose, get broke.
Also people sell their Motorhomes like a car, because they think costly repairs are coming up.
We expect so much because the investment is so high so our expectations are high but this is not met in reality.
It must be a headache for the dealer, although I have found that some of the Salesmen have never lived in a Motorhome so do not always understand the problems. :lol:


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

Angie, of course you're allowed to moan on the forum, everyone does from time to time & if you'd have come on starting with
"Sorry everyone, I've just bought a fresh van & feel I need to have a moan.........", then, in all honesty, you would have had far more sympathy. 

The information I've received from this site prior to buying my van was invaluable, there are some really knowledgeable people on here, but then when they give advice, it was effectively ignored as you carried on having a go. It does tend to get people's back's up I'm afraid, it's human nature.

You are right, the van should have been fully checked over, but by both parties. There are things which you also should have seen but have, in your understandable excitement of a new van, missed. It happens on new vans & they have problems, so it's bound to happen on some used ones too!

As an aside, regarding charging the batteries, you comment that you don't want a genny as you don't like the noise etc. I would find the noise of a van parked next to me ticking over more annoying than a genny to be fair. I'm quite surprised that you would find it comfortable sitting in the van with it vibrating away whilst you trickle charge the battery.

It does appear to me that you basically have most things you need on the van, including a solar panel & refillable gas (which, incidentally you can supplement with a standard bottle), so to be honest I would sit down with a cool head & write down the complete list of faults as you see them. Then take a good, long look at them & ask yourself if they really are that serious - in the cold light of day, you'll hopefully see they're not (if, indeed that is the case) & you can concentrate on getting them sorted. 

Trust me on this, it happened to me on one of my cars (a new Alfa, no surprise there!!), & once things were sorted, I loved the car - so much so I bought another, & then opened another can of worms with yet more problems!!!!! 
8O


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Angie, I think you are calming down a bit and that's got to be good! Lifes too short.

There is clearly an issue with the leisure batteries.

For £100 fit two new 110amp/hr batteries. That's what I have and can last a week off hook up if I don't use the telly. I have now fitted led lights throughout and a solar panel so could last even longer (or watch the telly!)

Do not charge your battery by running the vehicle. You may have done that before but that doesn't make it right or sensible. Leave the relay alone (all uk m/homes have them by law and I have never heard anyone have an issue with them). Sort out your battery storage capacity/condition and electric consumption.

Go back to Discover with the proposal that they buy two batteries and settle on one from them and one from you.

Swop the Gaslow gear with someone on here for red bottles. You are never going to be happy with it are you? I can do 8 weeks plus with 26kg of propane.

As for the rest of the issues you have touched on, they have either been fixed or are going to be. The van is 4 years old and irrespective of mileage doesn't sound too bad to me.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi brettnangie,First things first, :lol: --see my earlier post about listing faults-- if it is at all possible let / get your dealer to fix what is broken-- apologise for going on :lol: this will save you money--and ask what if anything he can do to fix it.Also ask if he can go through how the van works with you.If it is not fixed then get back to us with what is still wrong so that we may then offer advise on how to fix it :lol: :wink: so that you can ENJOY your van 
BTW 28 k sounds like you got a good deal for a 4 yr old lunar from a dealer.
:lol: 
terry


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Well I wish I had found this site before buying our Van! However I have some wonderful news!

The dealer which is probably fed up with us as we are with the whole ordeal has managed to help us sort out all the faults, they will take off the gas flo which is sorely needed, help sort it out so we can use the habitational side of things with the engine running (A BIG issue for us), fix all other faults big or small.

When I read the email where they said they can sort out the habitational side hubby and thee became EXTREMELY HAPPY! We thought it was a lost cause as we had been told thats a UK requirement and no way around it.

Now we just hope the Engine side of things isn't serious as that will be a bummer but we will be keeping all fingers and toes crossed that the Motorhome we get back from them will soon be the Motorhome we thought it was.

Loco I think you have it right when you said


> salesmen have never lived in a Motorhome so do not always understand the problems


so I think in future if we decide to trade up or in that will research what Van we want first and then look for it rather than just go look for a Motorhome and hope we are told everything correctly and asked all the right questions.

After looking through this site I realise we should have asked even more questions and not been afraid to walk away do even more research but when you fall in love with a Motorhome you may think you asked all the right questions but until you actually live in it you can never know really what you should have asked.

But as I said I am hoping for the best! We want to spend Christmas travelling in our lovely Motorhome and I want to have faith in it again.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice! I know I'm a pain but thats just me :wink: If we ever meet up at a rally I will make some of my famous homemade cookies to say sorry! :wink:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

brettnangie said:


> If we ever meet up at a rally I will make some of my famous homemade cookies to say sorry! :wink:


In that case Angie, rant away as much as you like. It will only cost you three cookies per whinge!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just don't tell Mrs Zeb though if I do get to scoff a few. 8O

(P.S. Why not edit your title now. It looks bad. :wink: )


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

brettnangie said:


> we had been told thats a UK requirement and no way around it.


The EMC relay is NOT a LEGAL requirement for UK build vans. It is an fact a requirement of the NCC (National Caravan Council) acrreditation scheme. If a M/H manufacturer wants his product to have NCC approval he must fit one. There is no reason whatsoever why this relay cannot be bypassed, if the dealer tells you otherwise he doesn't know his onions.

BTW: If and when the dealer removes your Gaslow system, make sure he credits you with its value or ask that it be passed to you for disposal. They currently sell for £250+ on Ebay. You would be much better advised to retain the Gaslow system but to replace one of the bottles with a Calor propane bottle, this will give you the option of using either.


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Zeb hope the new title meets your approval and 3 cookies or 6 or 10 is fine by me! I love to bake them. Not great for my hips but nice anyways :wink: 
I still have to say we still feel ripped off but to be honest I am sick of fighting with them. I can only hope the Van works how we thought it would after all repairs and changes. If not we will have to look for a different van at a different dealer in the New Year.

Gaspode what you said is very interesting because various people at the dealership have been telling us that this problem/EMC Relays (they didn't first mention the EMC relay we told them what it was)are a UK requirement in fact we were told first from them that all Vans had it until we pointed out the Burstner and Chausson we looked at didn't have that, and we were told it's a safety feature so we don't drive down the Motorway with the lights on but thats not what we want to bypass it for.

I am a bit concerned if they mess things up somehow.

I hope its simple to bypass that EMC relay as they made it sound like a very big thing to do, and they had to check if it can be done so it seems they have never done it before so I am hoping they know what they are doing. I don't want to affect the Van being safe for us to be in, like they bypass the EMC relay and the Van catches fire or something. I haven't a clue on this side of things in a Motorhome.

Thanks for the advice about selling the Gaslo system or getting a credit I will be sure to mention that. It's a shame the gaslo bottle cannot be put inside a storage locker or something and could work with the bottle exchange system.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Angie, why can you not add a exchange bottle to the gaslow system? It is a quite simple job to add one  Where is the bottle kept now? I am a little confused ?now 
:lol: 
terry


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

I believe the gaslo bottle is in the cabinet where you keep your exchange bottles but you can't just take it out and out blue/red bottles in.

You fill it up on the side of the van via a gas point as well rather than just change the bottles like the exchange system.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Angie,If thats the case then (as I suspected)you can easy get a spare bottle and get this fitted so that if the G/L runs out you can turn it off and turn on the "spare" there by keeping both choices :wink:  best of both worlds 
:lol: 
terry
edit I think that once you start to pay say £5 to fill up against £15/20 exchange you will grow to like your refillable bottle :lol: :lol:


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## 118111 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks I'll see if thats an option, if we can use the blue/red bottles and Gas Low then that would be OK.

I just hope it all goes well. I keep imagining our Van once they correct everything...................... I will breathe a nice sigh of relief once its all working properly and the van is how we were told it would be. Ahh bliss!

Still annoyed about other things but we'll get over it. Guess you have to accept things and move on.


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