# Help sourcing a gearbox for a 1994 Ducato based Hymer?



## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Hi - I think I need a new gearbox.

I read some threads about strange noises in 5th gear on the over-run and convinced myself it would be OK to just use 4th until I got home and then to a garage. I figured it was the 5th gear in its own box thing I read about. Anyway, 200 miles into my journey, and nearly home, I selected reverse and it would appear that the loose 5th gear (or something) then got picked up and has put a hole in the casing and done other unspecified internal damage to the gearbox. I am told I need a new gearbox, but the garage that assessed it can't supply it or even do it if I source it.

So, any ideas? I have done a Breakeryard.com request (nothing immediate) and I still have some places to call.

I am in West Cornwall, so ideally Truro/Camborne/Redruth, but if I have to get it shipped somewhere to get it sorted then clearly that will have to be considered.

It still drove in all gears after the "big bang" but I only went about 4 miles to the garage that I was aiming for anyway, and a pool of oil quickly formed when I stopped on their forecourt. I suppose I am clinging to the idea that it may still be "only" the 5th gear bit I have damaged/destroyed, but from what they have said I will need a whole gearbox. Does anyone know of someone who may be able to take a look and give another opinion on whether it could be reconditioned/remanufactured rather than replaced, or is that a bad idea?

A local motorhome specialist has indicated it is a day and a halfs work to remove the old one and then fit a new/reconditioned one when I can find one, and that this will cost me about £500 in labour. Does this sound like a sensible time estimate?

Thanks for any replies and useful advice.

NS

PS I realise that I was incredibly mechanically unsympathetic, and had I done the sensible thing and stopped when the noise started that I may have been looking at a simple repair, but please don't take against me for my foolishness!!!


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

oh dear what a mess.we all look back and wonder if we should have done that. First of all we need the vin number and what engine you have before you can start looking for a gearbox as there are different ones that look the same.
can I ask, have you looked underneath yourself to see where the damage is to the gearbox. 5th gear is visible when looking past the nearside wheel.

cabby
edit. get a quote for labour from the Fiat commercial garage, that will be the most expensive, possibly, but is a figure to work from.
have you tried Vospers in Plymouth, the commercial garage.


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

VIN: ZFA2900000423177
Engine: 2.5td

I will look underneath tomorrow when I pick up some of the stuff left in it that we need (plus a bag containing 5 mangoes and a pineapple which I couldn't find, but which I don't want to start decomposing in there!!). I will take a camera and try to get a picture if I can.

It is at Vospers in Truro, who do Fiat Vans but it is too long a job as they can't shut their workshop with my Hymer in it (I guess like the local motorhome specialist they are thinking over a day so van in bits at the end of the day is no good for them). I will ask them if Plymouth might be able to do it and what that would cost.

Thanks for your help.

NS


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

You should contact Mike Chubb at No1Gear.com. or phone 07976709156. He is about the best source for older parts. He even gets parts made if becoming hard to find.
He is based in Chard, Somerset and is a most helpful man.

Alan


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

You should contact Mike Chubb at No1Gear.com. or phone 07976709156. He is about the best source for older parts. He even gets parts made if becoming hard to find.
He is based in Chard, Somerset and is a most helpful man.

Alan


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I used this place when ours broke, he an agreeable bloke and a haggle is not unheard of, folding helps too, give him a ring and see what advice he gives, it might be worth getting recovered up to his workshop to have it fixed, spend the night and then drive home, I'm sure there must be a proper gearbox place down there somewhere, but at least this is a backup plan and might be cheaper too in the long run.

By the way driving in fourth won't have harmed it, as it's a four speed box with a add on housing for fifth, we did a couple of thousand miles around Scotland with no fifth gear, we just kept the speed down, but 60 was easy to do and not too noisy either.


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

It does not take a day and a Half to remove the box the guy who did mine had it out in less than a day.

Don't just use a normal garage find a gearbox specialist because all the garage will do is take it out and send it to them so cut out the middle man.

Mine cost around a grand about 4 years ago which in included new clutch and drive shaft boots. Which is best to get done at the time as both involve a lot of work to relpace but will be exposed while the box is out.

Andy


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies. Here is what I have done so far:

- arranged for the van to be moved to a local garage that have a big enough workshop, etc., and can keep it indoors overnight if needed (note your comments above). The garage are small and friendly, they did my recent MOT on the van and also an MOT on an old mini that we have. They work with lots of older vehicles and seem reasonable on labour costs
- found a guy in Bristol who will potentially take the box and recondition it if the garage who open it up concludes it needs it (new housing, etc.)
- I tried a local gearbox specialist who said that he couldn't get old Ducato boxes, etc., but he did give me the number of the guy in Bristol

With further hindsight I should have got the van recovered to the guy in Bristol and then got the train or a lift up to pick it up. Green Flag were fine to move it once, but they were clear they wouldn't move it again. I guess the cost of transporting it now will be punitive. I may end up having to pay for it to be shipped off somewhere for repair and then back to the local garage to be fitted.

I went to pick up a few bits from the van this morning (toilet cassette, empty fresh and grey water, etc.) and there was some oil under it. As it drove to the garage and on arrival dumped a reasonably amount of oil, and clearly still had some coming out of it after they had looked at it on the ramp I am clinging to the hope that I may get away with something other than total replacement.

Thanks for all the replies, will update as I go in case it helps others.

NS


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

"By the way driving in fourth won't have harmed it, as it's a four speed box with a add on housing for fifth, we did a couple of thousand miles around Scotland with no fifth gear, we just kept the speed down, but 60 was easy to do and not too noisy either."

This was fine for the 200+ miles on the way down on Monday, I forgot on a few ocassions accelerating away from roundabouts and selected fifth then back to fourth due to the racket reminding me. When I selected reverse whilst turning around at my friends house there was an almighty bang which is what the Vospers mechanic assessed as being something getting stirred up and then punching the hole in the casing. I drove it about 4 miles after that straight to Vospers.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You'll breath a sigh of relief now at least it's moving forward, hopefully the bill will not be too excessive, I know you're looking at something approaching £200 for the fifth gear alone as I priced one up last year, but opted for a used one in the end, it's quite a complex gear in two or more parts which is IMO why they fail so easily, Google Ducato fifth gear as there is a lot of talk on how to prevent it happening again, it seems to happen more to campers as we do less stop start driving, dropping to 4th seems to be favoured, and my repair man told me to put ATF in instead of gear oil as it splashes more readily than hypo 80/90 gear oil. so everything is well cooled and lubricated, but I didn't and sold the van a while later, gearbox was better than before it broke, as second was always a cow to get before.

Anyhow, good luck with it, and let us know what went bang etc.


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Hi

I have found a local gearbox specialist in Falmouth who will take the box and hopefully recondition it/replace the 5th gear internals and casing

I read another thread on here that suggested doing the clutch and CV boots at the same time, does that sound like a sensible approach? I know it adds cost of parts, but if the thing is in bits then it saves doing all of that again in the future.

Cheers, NS


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

If the box is coming off the extra cost of the parts is cheap compared to the labour cost of ripping it all out in 6 months, plus you get a warranty on the parts too, the garage can't blame any faults onto parts which might be on there way out, as he fitted new ones, make sure you get a written warranty for the gearbox repair though, or at least an itemised VAT bill, with the warranty written on it and signed.


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Getting the gearbox off (and on again) is a pig of a job....labour costs will be high. 6 hours maybe? 

Once it's off, the extra labour costs of replacing the clutch (make sure they fit a complete 3 part new clutch set) and replacing CV boots will be peanuts). An hour max?

Parts costs for new clutch and all new CV boots? Maybe £150 to £200 retail........maybe 30% less for trade?

I'd say definitely yes, get the clutch and boots done at the same time (assuming the existing clutch is ancient or of unknown vintage).


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Not replacing clutch is a no brainer. As already said, with the whole area replaced with new materials, you should certainly look forward to at least a year of guaranteed work in an as new condition.

Alan

If any parts are difficult to source, contact No1gear.com.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

if your a bit skint then leave the boots if they're not split, they could last years, and it can be a separate job if needed, but clutch parts need to be done while the box is off, you need to decide if your going to fill it with ATF or thick gear oil though, do your own Google research and make a decision.


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

..........................And make sure that you (or the mechanic) fills the gearbox with the higher amount of gearbox oil.....from memory the original "recommended" amount was only 1.25 litres, but that was later changed to 1.9 litres to allow more oil to "splashover" from the main gearbox into the little added-on section that holds the 5th gear cog.

If you've got a gearbox oil dipstick the original 1.25 litre level is marked on it. 
The later recommended 1.9 litre level is obviously higher: it's halfway between that original mark and where the stick part of the dipstick meets the collar (about 2cms down from the stick-to-collar joint). 
Many people make a second ring-mark at that higher point on the dipstick with a hacksaw blade to help remember the higher level.


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Update!

The box is now with the specialist. They report that the casing is not available but can be TIG welded (a patch will be put in, about £70). They can get most of the parts, but not the input shaft. They can weld the part onto the shaft but it will make any future gearbox work almost impossible. The estimate for parts is getting above £550, their labour sounds very reasonable at £150/200, VAT on top takes that bit to £1k.

And that is before paying the guys that took it out and will put it back, and potentially buying a clutch & CV boots.

I have put the local guy in touch with the people in Bristol who sounded helpful and may be able to help him with the casing and input shaft.

Another option is to convert to 4 speed. Still needs some parts and welding, but would be less costly, probably save nearly £700, but left with a noisy less economical vehicle.

Any thoughts?

NS


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

The final decision will be yours but a van with only 4 gears will not be pleasant to do mileage in.
Please do not use TQF auto trans fluid in the box whatever you choose, you will eventually wreck the differential as well as the rest of the gearbox, it does need the hypoid element of the correct oil, if you want a better choice of oil go for one of the modern synthetic lubricants of the correct viscosity.

I would have thought given enough effort you will eventually find a box, look further afield i.e. perhaps eBay in Germany or Italy there are often adverts on there and my own experience using the foreign sites has been excellent. 
If you really can't or can't be bothered to research I'll try to point you in the right direction.

And yes definitely replace the clutch and boots.


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Just found this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_489wt_932 on eBay. I called him and he said to get the reference number off the box and he could confirm if it would fit. From the compatibility guide it looks like it will work.

It is plus VAT and exchange (i.e. have to get the old box to him), so it will be £660 inc vat plus around £80 carriage (£40 for the box to me, £40 for my box to him). If it is fitted locally he gives 6mths 6,000 mile guarantee (double that if he fits, but he is in Romford).

I searched this a few weeks ago and didn't find that one, but perhaps I was looking for parts not complete box.

Anyway, does that sound like a better idea than fixing up the old box?

Thanks in advance, Chris


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Quite a few here eBay Gemany 2.5 Ducato gearboxes


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Mike @ No1Gear found a box with a broken 2nd gear, which I bought and shipped to Falmouth. Garry in Falmouth made a working box out of the 2 boxes. Norman in Troon has put it back in the van with a new clutch. All being well I pick it up tomorrow 

Thanks for all the tips, especially Mikes details. I have told Norman about the amount of oil, so he is going to make sure that is right.

Wish me luck for tomorrow. Will try to remember to update thread once it is working fine, and once I know what I spent.

Mrs NS not as excited as I am about the return of the van, but I am studying my sons rugby fixtures between now and end of Nov (tax expires) to find a test weekend!!

NS


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

All working, only drove it 20 miles or so, but felt fine. Total cost £1,700 (ouch).

Trying to find out if the spare gearbox i have ended up with in bits in the shed has a value.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Glad all has been repaired, as to cost, I would say a very reasonable price considering. 

cabby


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Hi Cabby, I think that I did well on price on balance, the guys that helped me out, Garry, Mike and Norman were all total stars, but it is still ouch!!

Hindsight, etc., but I think I would have saved several hundred pounds if I had left it at Vospers, done a bit more research and got Green Flag to take it straight to Mike @ No1Gear, or Gloucester Rd Gearboxes in Bristol. I just include that to help anyone who stumbles on this in future.

Ironically I have almost no justifiable reason to go anywhere in it now until after the tax expires, at which point i am going to have to SORN it to save for next seasons tax disc, but i am sure I will manage something.

Cheers, NS


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You don't give dates, but why not SORN it now and get a partial refund on your current tax disc to help finance the next one


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

I thought of that, but if it is sunny this weekend i might take some of the family off locally for Saturday night,or the weekend after!


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Gearbox has been fine since all this drama, probably covered around 5,000 miles I guess. But it has now started to make a strange jolt in reverse gear sometimes. At the MOT place last week they couldn't get it out of reverse and had to "rock" it then it came out. Just now reversing on to the drive it made a jolt/jumped out of gear. I will ask them for advice when it goes back for re-test tomorrow, but any tips or comments gratefully received.

NS


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

OK, now stuck in 5th gear, parked in Asda car park in Bideford waiting for Green Flag!! I think it's the linkage...


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## NevilleStreet (Oct 17, 2009)

Oh dear, the box is very damaged. Probably going to get it shipped to Mike in Chard if he can do it in time.

I have had a quote from 247spares of a reconditioned box for £1266 delivered, with a 12 month warranty, but I think part of the problem with the current one was too many people involved so think I should get the vehicle to one person that can do it all.

Any thoughts or ideas welcome. I really need it back in use asap as I have a fortnight off work starting in 10 days , hoping not to go back to tent camping!!

NS


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