# 12v power to Van cut off when engine is on...Why??



## 102181 (Dec 22, 2006)

I have a Elddis Autostratus eb 2001.
It has the most annoying, but I believe at the time of manufacturer, (A legal requirement), that on switching on the ignition, all 12v power to the van is cut off, except the Fridge.
I have since checked regulations, UK & European & there is no requirement in used motorhomes to have this insufferable & barmy setup.
Please, please, someone must know how to bypass this system.
It really is daft.
My Motorhome has seat belts in the dinnette area, however you cant sit there during transit with the interior light on.
If your parked wild watching telly & the power starts getting low, you cant run the engine & continue watching telly.
I am hoping someone knows?
Help me!!


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

Hi Fanny and welcome to Motorhome Facts.


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

I believe that it isn't a regulation that actually says it must be cut off, but rather that anything running on 12v whilst the vehicle is in motion must be shown and proved not to interfere with the vehicle electronics. Many manufacturers don't seek this type approval - presumably on cost grounds. The only item that runs on 12v whilst the ignition is on in such systems is the fridge. This is automatically disconnected when you turn off, to conserve the battery. Some continental manufacturers do have systems which approved for use whilst in motion. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to bypass the cutout - but then I presume you would have to notify your insurer.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

If that is the case if you use anything on you cigar lighter while on the move you should also tell you insurance ppl that includes cars i guess


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

Probably not, because that isn't a permanent fitting


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

Happy Christmas all.
I have a 2005 Rapido and ALL the 12 volt stuff stays on when I start the engine. However a friend who took delivery of a Bessacar looses all his 12 volt stuff once he starts the engine and has to reset it when he stops (what a pain). Also his radio auto offs aftert about 10 minutes while mine runs for an hour. His dealer said neither could be changed they were base vehicle requirements. My base vehicle is the same (Fiat Ducato) so why the difference.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi folks,

It must be a UK build regulation as our 99 Hymer has all power to the coach area, whilst the engine is running, (providing you have operated the isolation switch).  

J & R


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi it does seem an odd thing 8O on mine not only is all the 12v stuff on but also the 120v and 240v if you start the Genny or turn on the inverter.

I would think you have a relay somewhere, possibly under the bonnet, when you turn on the ignition its energised, and disconnects the rear of the van, find it and remove just the coil wire. Get someone to sit in the van and turn the ignition off and on and listen for a clicking sound, be careful that you disconnect the right relay.

Olley


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

From memory (there is stuff about it on MHF) I recall it as an EU-motivated nanny-state thing about minimising the potential for EMC-related safety issues.

When I raised it as a potential issue when ordering the Murvi, they said they ignore it because it is daft. Sounded good to me! So instead of just being allowed the fridge under EU wisdom, it's all systems go with rear heating, lighting, roof aircon, sat TV for when the co-pilot turns her chair through 180 deg bowling along boring motorways/autoroutes, and, um, the loo flush pump ....

Dave


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi all, the legal reason why the 12v is disconnected on british built vans is to ensure you cannot show a white light to the rear of the vehicle except your reversing lights. On most modern built vans there is a 5 pin changeover relay which turns the habitation 12v off & turns the fridge 12v on. On british vans you just need to disconnect the thick brown one from pin 87 or 87a. The other pin (87 or 87a) will have a thick red with yellow tracer which is your fridge feed, Steve


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

If that's the logic (and it's the first time I've heard that reason) why are car interior lights not disconnected, too? 

Dave


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## nomad (May 11, 2005)

hi, 
Its the EMC relay, which is to ensure that nothing is switched on which will interfere with the vehicle electronics. It is not used on continental vans because they ensure that everything is tested and will not cause interferance, whereas the British manufacturers do not have all equipment tested. For the usual economic reasons I suppose.

If you can find the relay its easy enough to disconnect. It was a white wire in the wardrobe on my Sundance, but I have not bothered since I changed my vehicle.
Colin


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi All

From my recollection, the requirement to isolate all items (except fridge) in the rear of the van whilst in motion is a dictate from the NCC (National Caravan Council) and was devised to prevent any interference with the vehicle electronics whilst driving. So in order to claim NCC approval UK manufacturers are compelled to comply with their standards. None of the continental manufacturers seem to bother isolating the rear whilst in motion so it's obviously unnecessary. Just proves that the NCC should stick to caravans? :roll: :roll:


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

I don't understand this thing about 12 volt stuff interfering with the base vehicle electronics, what about minibusses, ambulances, recovery vehicles and the numerous other specialist vehicles which require 'live' 12 volt stuff while in transit, plus all the mainland Europe built MH's


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Jean-Luc said:


> I don't understand this thing about 12 volt stuff interfering with the base vehicle electronics, what about minibusses, ambulances, recovery vehicles and the numerous other specialist vehicles which require 'live' 12 volt stuff while in transit, plus all the mainland Europe built MH's


Like I said above, it's complete rubbish. The NCC should stick to what they know about - caravans.


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*12 volt*

Hi to all

I have the CI Riveria 2000 model on the Fiat Ducato 14 chassis, RHD.

ALL 12 volt is ON with engine ign off or on with engine running, except the fridge 12 volt supply,

There are 2 alternator sence relays,= operate when engine is running,

1 = To supply the fridge 12 volt from the alternator,

2 = To connect the leisure battery to the engine battery, to charge both batteries when engine running.

And the MH built in Italy for the UK market, the system works well, and have never had a flat battery yet :!: :!: :!: YET :!: :!: :!:


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

gaspode said:


> None of the continental manufacturers seem to bother isolating the rear whilst in motion so it's obviously unnecessary.


At least if they want to sell their vans in Germany (and this is the biggest market for motorhomes in Europe) it is indeed unnecessary.

Because to release a motorhome for public road traffic in Germany the manufacturer must certify that ALL electric appliances (and, by the way, also all gas appliances) must be fully functional while driving and not interfere with the base vehicle's electronics.

As far as I know this policy has meanwhile also found its way into EU regulations, so perhaps the days of the cut-off switch in UK-made vans are counted. Anyway, I see in this nothing more than a loop-hole that some UK manufacturers use to avoid the costs of a proper certification. Probably this is one reason (besides the layout for RHD) that only very few UK motorhome brands are represented on the Continent?

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## motorhomenicky (Feb 1, 2006)

Getting back to the original question, it is possible to overide the relay, the problem with the elddis range is they use a complicated set of 10 pin relays inside the control box to work the fridge battery charge and switch off the power when driving, it would be far easier on this model to install a seperate light above the table direct to the leisure battery with an in line fuse.

Nick


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## 102619 (Jan 24, 2007)

*12v whilst ignition is on...*

hi all

i have a 2006 Elddis Autostratus which too cuts all 12v power when the ignition is switched on - or at least it did do! I found a 3amp fuse in the habition area fuse box (located under a bed box) and just removed it and hey presto! everything stays on... easy


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## 93716 (May 1, 2005)

nomad said:


> hi,
> Its the EMC relay, which is to ensure that nothing is switched on which will interfere with the vehicle electronics. It is not used on continental vans because they ensure that everything is tested and will not cause interferance, whereas the British manufacturers do not have all equipment tested. For the usual economic reasons I suppose.
> 
> If you can find the relay its easy enough to disconnect. It was a white wire in the wardrobe on my Sundance, but I have not bothered since I changed my vehicle.
> Colin


Hiya Colin
A bit late but i just found this thread
I have the swift sundance 590RL can you be a bit more specific on the white wire in the wardrobe ( i'm a bit thick when it comes to white wires )


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Hi

I'm still trying to locate the relay/fuse, etc on my 2008 Compass Avantgarde 100 which enable the 12v electrics to functioon whilst on the move. 

I'm open to suggestions (polite and sane, thanks :lol

Regards

Tim


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## nomad (May 11, 2005)

Hi Joed, Sorry but as I sold my Sundance over 4 years ago I cannot remember any details concerning the relay/electrics etc. Also the layout of your 590 may mean that the relay concerned may be in a different location. The only thing that I remember is that the relay was one of those located near the battery charger.
Best of luck Colin


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## 93716 (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Colin i'll have a look and if all else fails it looks like paying for a auto electrician


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

*EMC*

As has been indicated by DAB its the UK manufacturers way of getting out of doing sufficient EMC testing of a converted vehicle with all the habitation electrics operational. My 1997 Autotrail Scout was certainly fitted with such a relay by the manufacturer although it didn,t stay that way very long!

EU legislation for EMC is actually quite stringent and testing can take weeks. A test chamber was over £1000 per day to hire 10 years back.
But many of the continentals don't have this nuisance interlock.
C.


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## kevin10 (Jul 20, 2016)

*12 volt cut off when engine is on*

hi just checked my 98 sundance the 12 volt cut off relay is in the wardrobe next to the fuse box the red and yellow wire is the + switching wire so I just cut off the no 86 spade on the relay filled it flat and covered with insulation tape job done.12v electrics on when engine running. If you want to restore to original just install a new relay


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

kevin10 said:


> hi just checked my 98 sundance the 12 volt cut off relay is in the wardrobe next to the fuse box the red and yellow wire is the + switching wire so I just cut off the no 86 spade on the relay filled it flat and covered with insulation tape job done.12v electrics on when engine running. If you want to restore to original just install a new relay


Hi Kevin and welcome to MHF, I don't know if you noticed but this is an 10 year old thread, but your contribution is welcome though.


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