# People travelling in the motorhome?



## gpg1963 (Sep 30, 2008)

I have an Elddis explorer 200, a Boxer engine 1.9 registered in 2003 and would like to know if I can take my 2 nephews, 5 and 7 yrs old sitting at the back but without seatbelts? Is it legal?


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

It's legal if there are no seat belts fitted but not really safe. I wouldn't want to carry kids without seat belts, even though technically it's OK to do so.

Denise


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

So there could be as many as FOUR totally irresponsible adults involved in making this mad decision and they think it's a good idea? 8O :? Just because it's legal, which it is, doesn't make it safe or responsible... :evil: 8O

Apart from that, the Police have the power to charge the driver with endangering the lives of the children... 

*NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!*

Yes, I'm shouting!! Please reconsider the plans. Get to the nearest motorhome dealership and buy a suitable vehicle that has built-in child safety.


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## clubman (Sep 3, 2007)

Yes, I agree it is not safe, but neither is travelling on buses and trains with no seatbelts. The thing is, adults can choose yo chance it, and in the event of a sudden stop, can maybe reach out to save themselves from some injury. Children are more inclined to "go with the flow."


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## chrisgreen (Jan 13, 2008)

i thought from may last year it was illegal to carry more people than you have seat belts?
buses and trains are exempt?
i will see if i can find a link.

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/faqs.shtml#seatbelts (scroll down page)

http://www.motorhomeinfo.co.uk/Motorhomes_and_the_Law/mots.xalter

mod's
im sorry if these links are from other motorhome website's but this is a safety issue.

it also state's i was wrong about may last year.
but the first link state's that their advise is not to carry unbelted passengers in the back of a motorhome.
so its up to you to take the risk?

chris


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Have a look at this thread.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-63586.html

If your vehicle is pre 2007 then it is legal,whether it's safe or not is another matter and your decision.

Thousands of bus passengers travel unrestrained every day without any problems.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I would check your insurance. There may well be a condition stating the insurance company will not be liable for costs in event of breakdown/accident if the vehicle is carrying more people than it is designed for.

I am not sure how you tell how many it is designed for, mine is a supposed to be suitable for two people but will sleep four.

peedee


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## Westbay (Mar 15, 2008)

Forgetting the 'is it legal' bit, how happy would you be sitting there nicely strapped in, with your nearest and dearest sat behind you in a vast open space (don't forget all the sharp edged tables and cupboards) with - should you have a crump - nothing to stop them slamming into your back, or maybe straight out through the windscreen?

All the adverts for strapping kids in even when travelling in a nicely padded small-space car should give you a hint.

so I guess I'm in the DON'T DO IT group 8O


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

wakk44 said:


> Thousands of bus passengers travel unrestrained every day without any problems.


But buses have a heck of a lot more mass than and don't usually stop quite so fast as smaller vehicles.

As they say about jumping off a tall building "it's not the fall that kills you - it's the rapid stop at the end"

So perhaps the answer is to fill the front of the motorhome with lots of empty cardboard boxes or a half inflated rubber dinghy?


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

Do not even think about it. We were selfish when we bought our first mh with only 2 travelling seat belts. Grandchildren started asking to come, so we changed our MH to one with 4 travelling seat belts. The consequences of having an accident and passengers flying around inside a MH is unthinkable. The legality of this does not come into it, it was too complicated that is why the rules did not change.

dave


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## gpg1963 (Sep 30, 2008)

*how many people in a motorhome*

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, it is good to know that not all that is legal is safest and best. Without seatbelts is very difficult to offer the minimum secutity required to those sitting at the back let alone children...
Thank you for your responses
Enjoy the snow if you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hello,

I made this mistake with our first van (a costly mistake at that). I was of the train of thought, "well it's legal so we'll do it". In the end we never took the van out at all as I came to my senses, sold up and bought another Van more suitable for the job of carrying our precious cargo around in.

I would imagine in a smash that the GRP would crumble like an eggshell. It doesn't bear thinking about.


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## motorhomer2 (May 9, 2005)

our M'home is fitted with 3 proper seat belts but we wont ever use the third one. In our opinion that seat is best suited to be used for what it seems best suited for & that is is to make it into a single bed. That third seat belt is permanently stowed away.

Motorhomer


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm struggling a bit with this - for years it was quite legal to carry passengers in the back without seatbelts and people carried on buying motor homes and taking passengers without complaint. As has been said already, buses don't have seatbelts but hundreds of thousands of people use those everyday. And what about trains - not only no belts but people can get up and walk about. If you want to take it to the extreme. don't drive anywhere and that way everyone on-board will be safe. I agree that unrestrained passengers facing in the direction of the front seat passengers and the windscreen with little to stop them is a danger. However there are often other choices and alternative seating arrangements that are available. Yes, not as safe as having a lap-belt but where do you stop? What about everyone having to wear 3 point harnesses and crash-helmets?


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi,

My own take on it would be that a Train, Bus or Coach having someone run into the side of them at say 20 mph. Would sustain a lot less damage than the same impact on a Motorhome. The Aluminium/GRP construction is hardly going to protect the same as the shell of the aformentioned vehicles.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: people travelling on the motorhome?*



gpg1963 said:


> I have an Elddis explorer 200, a Boxer engine 1.9 registered in 2003 and would like to know if I can take my 2 nephews, 5 and 7 yrs old sitting at the back but without seatbelts? Is it legal?


AFAIK If they are under 3 they have to be belted. Over that I am unsure if one would use the passenger front seat in preferance to an adult.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

My own take on it would be that a Train, Bus or Coach having someone run into the side of them at say 20 mph. Would sustain a lot less damage than the same impact on a Motorhome. The Aluminium/GRP construction is hardly going to protect the same as the shell of the aformentioned vehicles


> You would be surprised as to how flimsy a bus is above chassis height.
> 
> Richard...


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi,
> 
> My own take on it would be that a Train, Bus or Coach having someone run into the side of them at say 20 mph. Would sustain a lot less damage than the same impact on a Motorhome. The Aluminium/GRP construction is hardly going to protect the same as the shell of the aformentioned vehicles.


Agreed - not sure that wearing a seatbelt would make much difference though. In fact, the opposite - if you had sight of someone about to crash into the side of you, you might possibly have more chance of moving out of the way than if you had a seat belt on. Also, one hears about horrific instances where people are trapped by their seatbelt and I can imagine that happening in a side-impact.


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## aikidomo (Jan 8, 2008)

I am loath to offer any critism of any of the posts on this subject.
They have all offered up common sense reasons as to why people must not be carried in the back of a motorhome.
The reasoning is sound, but in the same instance one would not go up a ladder in case you fell off, or as already mentioned, travel on a bus , I have always looked upon this as a really useful argument.
When we first bought our Motorhome we paid for seatbelts to be fitted all be it lapbelts, to be secured in the back habitation area, new to Motor homing as we were and well aware that it was not illegal being that the Van is 05 registered.
I have travelled with my grandson in the back and my grandaughter in the passenger seat, although not for a long time or distance.
The question I ask is why advertise a four/five berth and then not have the seating, with belts to accomodate the passengers for that berthing.
I was once in Cornwall and witnessed a van full of young people going down the main street of Newquay shouting and drinking out of the windows in the full view of the police who just looked on not phased at at all by it.
I am only relating experience here, which is something that I consider this Forum is for, and not to judge other people for doing something that others would not.
Clive.


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## Westbay (Mar 15, 2008)

aikidomo said:


> but in the same instance one would not go up a ladder in case you fell off, or as already mentioned, travel on a bus .


Take what risks you see fit for yourself, but I think you miss the point a bit - this is about imposing those risks on some one else's little kids. Do you think you have the right to do this?


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## kutekirsty (May 1, 2005)

These are great. Superb, esp if - like us - your rear seats are bolted to the floor:

http://www.ezonpro.com/products/familyVehicle/86yHarness.shtml

Have to get shipped over from USA but I found the company to be very helpful. Straps go through seatbelt 'holes' of child car seat but is also suitable for teenagers without a child/booster seat.

If anything this is safer than a traditional 3 point seatbelt as it's a full harness and smaller children often take their arms out of the diagonal part of the 3 point, effectively leaving only a lap belt. Secured to the seat (which like I said, is very strong and secured to the floor), this is a fantastic solution that I highly recommend.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

kutekirsty said:


> These are great. Superb, esp if - like us - your rear seats are bolted to the floor:
> 
> http://www.ezonpro.com/products/familyVehicle/86yHarness.shtml
> 
> ...


The fact that seats are bolted to the floor is not enough, as in an accident the seat could pull out of the floor if its fixings are not designed to take the forces of an accident. Factory fitted belts are fitted to a steel frame which has been fixed to withstand an accident.

I am not saying that all seats are unsuitable just warning people that they may be making things more dangerous in an accident if the seat becomes loose from the floor.


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

I remember a research paper from a few years ago that considered the effect of unrestrained passengers in an accident.

The rather ghoulish sub-title is as effectiive in conveying the conclusion as a page of statistics -

it was called "The Back Seat Bullet". 

Mike


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## kutekirsty (May 1, 2005)

Jezport said:


> kutekirsty said:
> 
> 
> > These are great. Superb, esp if - like us - your rear seats are bolted to the floor:
> ...


I see what you're saying and good point but if the seats are in a professionally converted motorhome that has lap belts anyway (not sure if the Elddis in question does... surely it does?!), you would hope that the seats are designed to take the force of an accident.

Worrying that some fairly modern vans aren't equipped to safely carry passengers in the rear - regardless of the number of berths it is still a vehicle with seats in the back and it's therefore likely at some point to have passengers. Even if only from a re-sale point of view, 3 point seatbelts in the rear of a van should be fitted as standard. If a couple without children or family (or friends...!) bought a new car it wouldn't be sold to them without rear seatbelts just because they are unlikely to ever have passengers!!


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

It is a sad indictment of MH companies, that make and sell 4-6 berth vans and don't fit enough seat belts, it's reassuring to see how much they value your safety and that of their future customers, the car/van seatbelt laws have been in place for a number of years, long before your mh was built, they saved money, you now need to spend money if you want to carry extra passengers with some degree of safety afforded to them

Chris


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