# How many will subscribe?



## gaspode

OK - someone is bound to do it before long so I might as well set it up!

Nuke has announced, for very sound reasons, that this site becomes subscription only from 07/01/06 which many members (including myself) seem to think is a big mistake. The question is, how many members will subscibe to the new site? There is now a membership of some 8,000 plus but I would guess that the vast majority of these are effectively lapsed or infrequent visitors. Once subscriptions are in place what will be the true, active membership then? Perhaps 4,000 or maybe 1,000? My guess would be in the 150 to 200 region - what's your guess?

Please complete the poll and we might give Nuke some indication of his projected income from a subscription-only site. The poll will run for 12 days, to finish just before the deadline for payments. As a guideline, please don't take part if you're a member of staff (you won't need to pay anyway) and if you already subscribe voluntarily, please fill in as a YES. Feel free to post your estimate of the result if you like. No prize offered for the nearest guess except the admiration of your fellow members.

My own position is that I do currently intend to subscribe for the first year but will only keep it going after that if the site continues in the same lively, entertaining and independent format as it has since I joined up some 18 months or so ago. Sadly I don't expect to be paying subs twice - but I hope I'm proved wrong.


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## 88734

Well I voted yes because anyone who asks for money on Christmas day must be desperate


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## takeaflight

I already subscribe, I dont have a problem with that, I have saved my money several times over. However I do feel if you make MHF subs only, the site will die. My problem is being told what subjects I can and cannot post on. Whats the point of a off topic section if you cant go off topic.


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## smifee

you don't have to have a degree in economics to know this site will fail. having only got 36 subscribers from 8000 members why does nuke think he will get more now.

either he is wearing blinkers or he no longer wants to devote any time to MHF and this is his way of dumping it.

i had just started uploading photos so i could put wild camping spots, aires & sostas on the database. obviously i won't bother now. glad this news didn't come a month later.

mike


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## Scotjimland

gaspode said:


> My own position is that I do currently intend to subscribe for the first year but will only keep it going after that if the site continues in the same lively, entertaining and independent format as it has since I joined up some 18 months or so ago. Sadly I don't expect to be paying subs twice - but I hope I'm proved wrong.


Hi Ken , an excellent post.

I echo your sentiments, I have said from my first post this wasn't about money. I would hate to see the demise of the site, two years + of hard work from Dave and thousands of hours by dedicated members all of which ironically has brought us to this situation.

I said I wouldn't join as there was no accountability.. but it is an odd situation, a thriving site, passionate members, an enthusiastic leader, all the ingredients for a successful club but lack of funds to continue.

I am torn between principals and reality, I don't want to be among the ranks who bring it's downfall.

It is called 'Motorhomefacts', but we have little information from Dave except that he can't continue without our dosh. I am prepared to give it a go on the same understanding as Ken.

A smaller membership will result , dedicated and with a vested interest in making it work, this is better than hoards of lurkers and trolls waiting to pounce and wreck havoc when they see an opportunity. I am honest and big enough to have a change of heart and admit it.

This is a £10 gamble for us, the price of two packs of ****, for Dave the stakes are much higher, I say lets give it a go................

Edit.

My wife ( Scottishmist) and son also read and post occasionally but we don't intend to subscribe three times.. If possible I would like to change my alias after subscribing to reflect this change .. can it be done ?


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## 94639

Gaspode and Scotjimland

I agrre with your postings, ridding the site of lurkers and trolls can only be good for the forum. I too intend to pay for the first year to see how things pan out. Compared with the cost of a TV license and the cost of the current motorhome magazines, £10 is a small price to pay for access to the mine of information supplied by the members of this forum.


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## solentviews

I am beginning to panic now. I love the site although I contribute very little to it in the way of posts. I have gained a great deal of knowledge from the activity on the site. I have donated voluntarily. This is the only forum that I visit on a regualr basis (several times daily) and only visit others if I wish to research a specific piece of information and then would not pay to do so. If the site does go into decline a much enjoyed part of my life will go into decline with it. Although I intend to stay and will gladly pay my subs once the Festive drain on resources is over which may not be by the 6th! However, if I do not get the same pleasures in the future as I currently enjoy I will be looking for pastures new.
Ian


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## navman

I think the lack of response maybe due to the holiday period......


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## nukeadmin

> My wife ( Scottishmist) and son also read and post occasionally but we don't intend to subscribe three times.. If possible I would like to change my alias after subscribing to reflect this change .. can it be done ?


hmm i might be able to bring in some sort of couple subscription for same price as standard subscriptin for members of same household, lol any ideas how to ensure it isnt used for the wrong purposes ?


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## Scotjimland

nukeadmin said:


> hmm i might be able to bring in some sort of couple subscription for same price as standard subscriptin for members of same household, lol any ideas how to ensure it isnt used for the wrong purposes ?


Dave

Can you clarify what the 'wrong' purposes might be.. there are many couples on here at the moment who use a single alias.. have you had any issues with it being misused ? 
If she is on I will know ..lol.. because I wont be able to get on..and visa versa.. 
Her past history of posting will show she isn't a troll ...lol 
I would like to change from 'Scotjimland' to 'Jim n Jan' .. this would be a true reflection of our status as a motorhoming couple.


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## nukeadmin

i mean by people who get together and pretending they are couples in order to get cheap membership, i thinks its a great idea for couples to have a membership for the same cost as an individual but want to know how we could prevent it being abused


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## WISSAGE

Have just voted NO to the poll as I am a casual user, but will sit on the fence and see. I'm not in principle against paying for what I get, but it goes against the spirit of the internet, i.e. free information shared with all. I may in the future subscribe possibly for one year. Instead of an open forum, you may end up with an exclusive club with few members. Incidentally I never log out and never have to log in again when I return several days later. Does this mean that I will appear as logged in 24/7.
Another thought, half the price twice the takeup?. 
Good luck with the venture. I may end up with egg on my face and be encouraged to subscribe as the only outsider left!


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## spykal

Hi Gaspode

Thank you for putting up this poll...my views on subscriptions seem to match almost exactly with yours. I am avoiding any quick decisions or making any kneejerk posts about it. My thinking up to now is that, although I may not subscribe initially... I will sit on the side and see how the forum fares with just the paid up subscribers posting, if it works, then I may subscibe. As we get closer to the cut off I do hope that I will have made up my mind one way or the other. 

I have, like many others, spent most of my time on this forum trying to help others with improving their motorhome or solving problems that they have. I have really enjoyed the time spent and the information was freely given by me at the time. At that time I was under the impression that it would be made freely available to other users. Seeing as this is about to change I am now undecided but, at this moment my feelings are that I do not wish to pay for the privilege of helping others. 

On the other hand, I have when needing information about places that we wished to visit, found the site really good for that....albeit information was freely given by the folk who helped me. So it is something of a dilemma.

On the community side there was a time when the banter on the forum was always friendly, witty and enjoyable and if asked a year or so ago I would have said this alone may have been worth a sub but.....IMHO recently we have seen far too many aggressive, political,extreme or hateful posts...these were never "my cup of tea" so I will not miss them. Some opinions at the moment seem to be saying, that by introducing Subs the problem will go away....IMHO the problem may well not go away....some of the most vociferous members in recent "controversial" threads may well be supporting the move to subscriptions.

Anyway thanks again for the poll...it will help me decide.

Mike

P.S. Sorry to add a P.S. ...I am always doing that :lol: but I have just realised that this poll is going to be answered in the next 24 hours by what you may call the "regulars"....at this moment it seems that it is 50/50 ...that is a lot of regular members to lose "at a stroke". Many of those who have already posted that they will not subscibe will, I am sure, be missed. By me if by no one else.


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## Scotjimland

nukeadmin said:


> i mean by people who get together and pretending they are couples in order to get cheap membership, i thinks its a great idea for couples to have a membership for the same cost as an individual but want to know how we could prevent it being abused


I don't see how you can prevent that kind of abuse, it could be done without your knowledge or consent in any case .. one subscriber giving out his/her name to mates... 
However, if you suspected multiple users on a single alias you could warn them, but is it not better to have that one subscription than lose them ??

Hiding behind someone elses alias or multiple aliases of one person has been an ongoing problem on this site for a long time. 
As i'm not a webmaster I have no idea how to tackle it... :?

Whether you consent or not it will be done by the unscrupulous and whether I am 'Scotjimland' or 'Jim n Jan' won't change anything..

I hope that makes sense..


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## xgx

Hi Jim n Jan

Good to know you'll still be around  
Gaspode spelled out a way forward for many (he certainly reflected my view). 8) 

Graham


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## philjohn

I fail to see why its against the spirit of the internet "something for nothing". There have been more internet Millionaires created off the "Free Internet"!!!!!! than hot dinners lateley.
If £10 is too much for the entertainment and knowledge that can be gained off this site I feel we are probably better off without you. Keep up the good work, I shall continue. Phil J


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## spykal

philjohn said:


> If £10 is too much for the entertainment and knowledge that can be gained off this site I feel we are probably better off without you. Phil J


Hi Philjohn

But only time will tell

and by the way I have read Heineken is *probably* the best Lager. :lol:

Mike


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## 88934

nukeadmin said:


> how we could prevent it being abused


1) Link the IP address of a member to his username as he logs in.

2) Any futher logins must then be from that same IP address/Domain.

3) All other IPs are blocked to logins.

Works with dynamic or static IPs?

The problem of course would come when you have users accessing from two locations at the same time, ie hubby at work, wife at home?

You could also have it so that any old/in use IPs clear down when a new login occurs. Members would be rather relectant to share then, if at anytime there login could be blown away and they are unable to get back in 

Of course, if the logins occur from the same locaction/address/host, it wouldn't be a problem, and all would be work hunky dory.. allowing multple logins just fine.

There must code to do this already, as many websites already use this principle. So the words "source code" and "pinch" come to mind 

Just a thought?


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## 96958

I have joined recently as I am thinking of buying a camper. I will not be subscribing, if it was a subscription site when I first looked at it I would not have bothered, there are already too many demand's for my money and I have to draw the line somewhere.
Another thing, I have loked at the main thead on this change and the one about political corectness because they seemedpopular and I am not impressed by the apparant ill-manners of some folk. Members should not be openly rude to others who have made a differnt choice as it is up to the indovidual, surely.
I wish you well but I will go elsewhere.


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## 88993

If only 31 out of 66 say they will subscribe, and those 66 are the more active members and therefore the ones most likely to subscribe, it doesn't look good for the future of the forum does it?
And to those that take offence at a differing opinion to their own, I am only putting in my opinion because I care enough about the loss of a great site to do so.


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## 97038

As a newcomer, I will probably not subscribe until I have seen how useful the site is.

Oh, and it will need to be made faster (and changed so that you don't have to scroll down EVERY page to see anything useful).


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## smick

*Subscribe or No*

I'm going to give it a go for a year - think the site contributes a huge amount of knowledge and goodwill in the motorhome community. Sometimes you need to be prepared to put your hand in your pocket - so long as it's not too deep !

Smick


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## Pusser

I would urge those who feel they will not subscribe to at least try a year for £10. It gives Nukes a chance and also you a chance to see if with the addtional benefits being worked on i.e. campsite discounts that you may end up in pocket. Also, I will personally miss you all


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## gaspode

Hi Pusser

As long as you stay around that ought to increase the number of subscribers by at least 100%. It'll be worth the tenner just to read the account of your 2006 trip to France.

By the way - no-one seems to want to predict the likely number of subscribers as yet - what's up with you all? (or do you all agree with my estimate)


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## MOTORHOMER

Sandgrounder said:


> As a newcomer, I will probably not subscribe until I have seen how useful the site is.
> 
> Oh, and it will need to be made faster (and changed so that you don't have to scroll down EVERY page to see anything useful).


Recently there have been many times when I have been unable to generate the mfacts site getting error messages. Also has been extremely slow at certain times.

Motorhomer


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## smifee

hi gaspode

about 100 is my estimate

mike


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## andyangyh

The fact that the announcement that the site will be subscription only in future has attracted comment from only about 5% of the 8000 membership and that this survey has, so far, produced a response from a mere 3% of the membership should tell you something. At the moment we have 55 people who say they will subscribe. Assume that these are the well-motivated ones and allowing that some people are on holiday etc. I would be amazed to see more than 300 subscribers.

The major attraction of this site has been the pool of expertise etc to be found among 8000+ people - some of who may only post occasionally but each may be the one person who can answer a particular question. Reduce that to 400 and the site becomes a lot less valuable.

The fewer members there are the less attractive the site is. The less attractive the site is the harder it is to attract new members. A vicious circle.


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## 88927

Hi Ken
My guess is that there will be about 200 -250 paying members (Wow Nuke can retire on that eh????). This number will equate to about 50% of the people that are regular contributors now and from the look of another thread it will be a lot friendlier from then on as most of the most vocal on that thread have already declared their intention to leave, but are intent on sniping away trying to discourage others to remain loyal to this site.
It is a sad day when people have to do this, say what you feel and then have done with it, some have been gracious in their decision to decline membership, others have not. We will not miss them. There are some that have surprised me with their views and a good many of them will be missed I am sure, however someone once told me how to measure indispensability, you place your hand into a bucket of water and revolve it in either direction, remove the hand and the size of the hole left in the water is a measure of your indispensability.
I could say a lot more but in the interest of decency I will not say what I really feel about some of the comments.

I look forward to remaining here with friends

Keith


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## nukeadmin

> and changed so that you don't have to scroll down EVERY page to see anything useful).


dont really understand sandgrounder ? i have no control over the content of the posts nor whether it is useful or not so its position on the page has nothing to do with me ?


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## rowley

Well said Keith.


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## tonyt

Hi gaspode 

350 - 400.


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## Pusser

gaspode said:


> Hi Pusser
> 
> As long as you stay around that ought to increase the number of subscribers by at least 100%. It'll be worth the tenner just to read the account of your 2006 trip to France.
> 
> By the way - no-one seems to want to predict the likely number of subscribers as yet - what's up with you all? (or do you all agree with my estimate)


You are very kind Gaspode.... I will see what I can cock up next Summer


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## Grizzly

My estimates of numbers subscribing vary wildly depending on so many factors so I won't give a number here. Someone mentioned earlier that the limited response so far might be because so many members were away. I think there's a lot of sense in that.

Nuke..will you cut off non-subscribers without a second chance- ie will they have to re-join and register with a new name and so on if they have not paid up before 7th Jan ? Could you lengthen the time for people to respond ( end of January ?) so that a) those who are away can catch up and b) those who do feel poor and impoverished after Christmas can pay from their next month's salary ?!!  I do intend to subscribe because I'd miss the site a lot and the excellent info from it but it did come as a shock on Christmas day to read of the changes.

G


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## spykal

Hi Grizzly

That was one of the sort of questions I have asked at:

Link to My Thread with Qustions for Nuke

Maybe watch out there too for some answers....

regards Mike


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## Grizzly

Thanks Mike...sorry, I missed the thread - put it down to a combination of CRAFT and sheer exaustion after a very busy Christmas. :lol: 

( I've had to sneak on here over the past few days...!)

G


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## 91289

well, well, I dunno, a couple of days of being force fed mince pies and I return to find someone's spilt a can of worms on the site!!

Will I join? Can't decide. I voted No 'cause there isn't a Don't know option and if I don't I probably wouldn't be missed, not being the worlds most prolific poster: _But I would miss the site!_ I mean it's part of my daily constitutional now.

Still I am in favour of reducing the kind of rants on politics etc.. which occured so recently but at the same time I find myself thinking that I'd also miss muttering what I was going to post in response as I drove home. Of course by the time I've got home my response is out of date 'cause someone's already said it or it's all moved on

Should I, shouldn't I...........What a conundrum, I'll have to wait until my head clears of Christmas spirits, then there's New Year....Oh! that's getting awfully close to the 7th!!

Oh Yeah! Gaspode, 223!


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## 88781

> Recently there have been many times when I have been unable to generate the mfacts site getting error messages. Also has been extremely slow at certain times.


Then by paying 20p per week for a more secure server with greater stability will ensure your connection to MHF is less frustrating 8O

Regards M&D


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## 91929

Well after 55 years of travelling & camping
Youth Hostels (cycling & back packing) camping (on sites, On mountain/ fell sides )
caravans - tents - MH's

Was trained to work on Hydraulics / Pneumatics / High pressure & Ultra High Vacuums 
Elecrtical / electronics 
First Aid - Home Nursing
Lecturer in Control Engineering and First Aid
National Park warden

& never had a web site til last year 
So I think we will manage OK - Its the new people who will be let down 
But How did they go on before ????????????????????????


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## 88962

At the moment I'm falling into the category of a non subscriber. My reasons are that when I first joined the site nearly 3 years ago it was a friendly site where people shared their knowledge of motorhomes and motorhoming. As time has gone on it has changed and become more of a chat site about anything and everything. I also think that, since the rallies were introduced, it has taken on the feeling of a club . Personally, my only interest in the site has been to share information and it is becoming more and more difficult to sift out the general chat from specific motorhome issues. 
I hope the site continues as there has been a lot of hard work and time put into it.


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## BERTHA

This site is supported by a fast computer, not mine by the way, fast Internet connection, not mine by the way, data back up and system development, not mine by the way.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME OR MORE IMPORTANTLY DAVID HOW WE SHOULD SUPPORT THIS SITE IF WE LIKE IT SO MUCH BUT DO NOT WANT TO PAY SUBSCRIPTIONS

FOR CHRIST SAKE COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS WE CAN ALL FIND REASON FOR WHY NOT

Hugh


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## 97038

nukeadmin said:


> and changed so that you don't have to scroll down EVERY page to see anything useful).
> 
> 
> 
> dont really understand sandgrounder ? i have no control over the content of the posts nor whether it is useful or not so its position on the page has nothing to do with me ?
Click to expand...

I am not talking about the cntent of the posts by subscribers. I am talikng about the design of the site. Every page has the same headers which take up far too much room (with much wasted [even empty] space.

Have a look at ADSLquide, for an example of how a forum should be done:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=multiuser


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## 97038

BERTHA said:


> FOR CHRIST SAKE COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS WE CAN ALL FIND REASON FOR WHY NOT


No need to SHOUT. 

One possible answer to the cost problem is advertising. Has this been investigated?

Edit: Oh dear.  I have just seen some advertising - hidden down the bottom of an infrequently accessed page where no one is really likely to see it.


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## Drummer

As a full qualified pillock who doesn't own a MH (but would like to :wink: ). I'm a little disappointed at the amount of critics (def: someone who tells you how you should have done it in the first place .... if only they had thought of the idea first) and what appears to bit a little too much nitpicking. 
Not that I don't defend your right to have any hobby you want! :? (Nice little PC touch there Drum!)
On come the site, take what you fancy, off topic, jokes, tyre pressures, routes to Austria, owt you fancy. Its going to cost you about 19p a week. Contribute a few posting, controversial or not.  
Its just a few people getting together under the same awning on a sunny day. 8) As I understand it, for the pricely sum of £10, you can help keep this fun site running. Crikey, I can remember the work put in by Nuke when the site was attacked & it went down a couple of times. Just the work he put in, to get it running again, as worth the ten quid.
Hope all you guys and gels, with wonderful principals, will just bite on the bullet and join us, I'd hate to loose any of you.
OK ... I'll marry Pusser! Will that do it? :roll:


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## MOTORHOMER

Grizzly said:


> My estimates of numbers subscribing vary wildly depending on so many factors so I won't give a number here. Someone mentioned earlier that the limited response so far might be because so many members were away. I think there's a lot of sense in that.
> 
> Nuke..will you cut off non-subscribers without a second chance- ie will they have to re-join and register with a new name and so on if they have not paid up before 7th Jan ? Could you lengthen the time for people to respond ( end of January ?) so that a) those who are away can catch up and b) those who do feel poor and impoverished after Christmas can pay from their next month's salary ?!!  I do intend to subscribe because I'd miss the site a lot and the excellent info from it but it did come as a shock on Christmas day to read of the changes.
> 
> G


Some folk are away even longer as long as say easter. We dont access the internet while away. It really was a sneaky time to announce this on Christmas day & with such short notice.

I am sure there must be other ways to go. To just do this & kick people off is disgraceful if indeed that is what will happen. People who have helped bring the site back to what it is now after that fateful crash. Thankless IMHO

Motorhomer


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## 96343

Hi all, not haveing the PC on untill today, whats all the fuss about ,the site has helped me lots even me a long time mechanic,I can find people wiiling to help.after all we can never know it all. it has brought me many friends I do and will subcribe. THANKS FOR A GREAT SITE



regards john


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## 96097

'It really was a sneaky time to announce this on Christmas day & with such short notice. '

I think you are reading far too much into the timing - it was announced on the 24th December. Near the end of the month, and near the end of a calendar year. 
For those that are not going to subscribe, a month before Xmas would have been wrong because of the expenditure at Christmas. A month after would have been the same reason. March through to October, a large majority of motorhomers are away for weeks or months at a time, or just weekends. So when would have been an ideal time?
Regarding notice period - what is required apart from a quick payment that needs a notice period?

For the current members that do not wish to join the subscription system, there will always be personal and political reasons why not to pay. I do not like paying community tax, tv licence fees, or road fund licence - but I have to. I pay Caravan Club annual fees by choice. MHF is also by choice. This is fairly basic stuff that everyone is aware of, so why there is so much controversy over Nuke's decision to introduce subs and hidden agendas amazes me.

Sharon

PS. Please remember that for anyone who does want a subscription and isn't able to - there have been offers from kands and bagshanty to help.


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## nukeadmin

> Some folk are away even longer as long as say easter. We dont access the internet while away. It really was a sneaky time to announce this on Christmas day & with such short notice.


well i amazed at this type of comment tbh, do you all honestly think i am out to get people or something, there were sound reasons for announcing it when i did, i am also in the process of drafting a subscription email that will be sent out to ALL members of MHF over the next day or two stating all the facts etc

NO Hidden agenda there at all !!!



> Hi all, not haveing the PC on untill today, whats all the fuss about ,the site has helped me lots even me a long time mechanic,I can find people wiiling to help.after all we can never know it all. it has brought me many friends I do and will subcribe. THANKS FOR A GREAT SITE


thanks for your support John


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## 96105

*subscribe*

hi all

wow!! come back from a few days away and...................... :arrow: 
a can off worms.... :? :?

allready subscribed in november enough said will review in november!!?

:wink: saruman................


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## nukeadmin

ok guys locking this thread now, i have answered loads of other queries in the other two large threads on subscriptions and now need to dedicate time to actually doing work on it 

Could you please hold any further queries for a weeks time when i post an update or if its an urgent matter then PM me, might not get a fast reply though


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