# Fully Winterised?



## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

We have been looking at used/preloved/secondhand Motorhomes and some are 'Fully Winterised'.

What are the differences between an 'ordinary' MH and a 'fully winterised' MH?


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

It normally means that its well insulated and the floor is double skinned and all the water etc are inbetween the floors so you don't have to worry about them freezing.

Very good if your going somewhere cold!

You also find there is more space for you to put stuff (ie inbetween the floors).


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

My understanding is that it mainly hinges on the insulation and/or heating of water tanks. Are they suspended below the floor or are they between double floors? If exposed, are they heated to prevent freezing in sub-zero temperatures? Are they also insulated?

There are also different levels/grades of thermal insulation of bodies and my understanding is that 'grade 3' (?) is fully winterised. No doubt one can get by pretty well with less insulated (grade 2?) bodywork but presumably one may have more cold spots and use more gas/electricity to keep warm.

Paul


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

Lots of MH are now being advertised as 'winterised' but it is worth checking exactly what they mean. Our Hymer is what we regard as 'fully winterised' - ie both fresh and waste water tanks are on board within the double floor of the alko chassis with the heating ducts running near, it has good insulation and has vredestein mud and snow tyres so is legal on winter roads in europe without needing to carry snow chains. We have been down to -12 and 2ft snow in the alps without any problem. 
We have seen other vans advertised as winterised but what they mean is an underslung water tank with insulation - in which case check the pipes to and from the tank because that is where it will freeze.

If you want a second hand Hymer A class ours will be for sale in the next few weeks

Chris


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

A Grade 3 winterised motorhome to the European Standard must be able to maintain a temperature of 20C inside when the outside temperature is -15C with all services working normally. This will mean that all water tanks and pipework, ect, will be inboard. Insulated/ heated tanks are not fully winterised if external.

Ron


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks for the prompt helpful replies.

One of the MHs 'fully winterised' was a Knaus Sport 650.

How would I be able to check if it is -or not?


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Keith - Confirm that the winterisation is to European Standard EN1646 in writing.

You can get a good idea by making sure that there are no outside tanks and associated pipework whatsoever. Then I would email the manufacturer to make sure.

Ron


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

You will find that many continental low profiles have an external waste tank with a double skin, the void between the skins has hot air from the truma blowing into it. The dump valve will be within the tank and operated by a long spindle from the accessible handle (to stop the valve from freezing). No plumbing will be visible under the van. This is the next best thing to an A class with a full double floor and the waste tank in there as previously mentioned.

It is certainly the way it works on our Rapido, although I have gone a bit further and insulated over the outer skin with foam insulation for skiing trips. I've noticed that a lot of the new Rapidos do not have winterised waste tanks, I think the 6 series low profiles and 8 series a-class vans.

I don't think you will find much difference between most continental coachbuilt vans in terms of wall/roof insulation (apart from the very expensive) and they will all probably have the same heater so it's really down to whether the waste pipes/tank freeze or not.

Kev


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi,
My van does not have a double floor but the waste water tank (because it is outside) is insulated and heated . Minus 15c is no problem as Hymer vans were always intended for people to go on skiing holidays in. Most of them have lockers that are big enough for skis and hot air is vented to all the cold spots in the structure.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

The three Hymers thay we have owned a C class, T class and an Exsis have all been well insulated, however the waste tanks have been external. never been a problem as all we do when the temperature is below freezing is leave the drain tap open and put a bucket under to catch the waste.
All pipes and water tank are internal and well insulated. 
We have been out wilding in minus 14 with no problems.
Personally, I would call this winterized but for fully winterized I would think the waste tank should be internal with a double floor.
But then, this is more weight.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think that we are wandering away from the posters question a bit. He needs to know what a fully winterised van is. Mine, yours and anyone else's motorhome might very well meet this criteria but the person buying will not know this. However, if a vehicle has been tested and proven to meet a set standard then his question has been answered. This is after all what standards are for. Also the standard set will be the minimum level required to qualify as such and in practice quality motorhomes built to grade 3 will easily exceed these requirements.


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## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*winterization!!!*

We spent 3 ski seasons (12 months in total) sking in Europe using aires,campsites and skilift carparks and EVERYONE freezes up at some point

a few helpful points might be

1 park so the morning sun falls on the side of your van with pipework and tanks liable to freeze
2 carry a genny big enough to power a small fan heater....say 1 kw ....for de-freezing fuel and water pipes!
3 Be prepared with the right gear shovels and chains( even if you have good M AND S tyres fitted
4 open lockers and cupboards to allow the warm air to circulate in your van if leaving it in a cold spot
5 carry water in a container inside your van in case your system freezes up
6 And just go and dont worry to much about van advertisers claims

7 top tip is vital SNOW TYRES AND A SET OF CHAINS FOR WHEN THE SNOW GOES OVER THE SILLS

SUE AND ANDREW


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

KeithChesterfield said:


> One of the MHs 'fully winterised' was a Knaus Sport 650.


I've got a 2006 Sun Ti 650 MF, which is similar - slightly different layout. Both tanks are on-board, there's a duct you can open which directs the blown-air heating onto the Grey Water tank to stop it freezing. All pipework is strapped to the blown-air ducts.

I've taken it to the Alps skiing and although it wasn't particularly cold whilst we were there (Samoens), the 'van was snug.

We were on a site with hookup, so left the heating ticking over on electric-only. Nothing froze.

The truma heater will run on electric, gas or both. It puts out (from memory) about 1.5Kw on electric, or about 3.5Kw on gas so if we're on a site with electric we tend to gie the 'van a blast on Gas, then switch it to electric to keep it ticking over.

I'm biased (obviously), but I think the build quality of our Knaus is superb.

I've fitted Vanco Winter 2 M+S tyres which seem pretty good, with a much quieter ride than the Michelin Camping tyres it came with, which were useless on wet grass, let alone Snow! I carry snow chains, though I've never used them.

Morph.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

ob1 said:


> Keith - Confirm that the winterisation is to European Standard EN1646 in writing.
> 
> Ron


It's been pointed out to me, by someone with frostbite!, that The above should read ' Confirm that the winterisation is to European Standard EN1646 Grade 3.'

This is correct as I believe that any van fitted with a heater will qualify for grade 1. Being able to maintain 20C inside when 0C outside will qualify for grade 2, whilst 20C inside -15C outside gets you grade 3.

Sue and Andrew - you'r right, but you will last out longer and thaw quicker with the right set up.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Morphology said:


> KeithChesterfield said:
> 
> 
> > One of the MHs 'fully winterised' was a Knaus Sport 650.
> ...


Keith, my 2007 Knaus Sun TI 600LF has the fresh water tank on board while the waste water tank is underslung. This is wrapped in insulation and has a truma warm air vent dedicated to it controlled by it own flap and string pull inside the van to close/open it.

The MH walls and roof are a sandwich of ally exterior and ply interior with 1" of polly foam in between. I went round the Knaus factory in Jandlesbrun this year and they are still making them this way.

I dont know about the floors although the area round the seating is raised so is effectively double.

I have no idea what classification of "winterisation" this is classed as but am very happy with it in sub zero temperatures with a full load of Gas as this gives better heat output from the Truma than electricity. eg 6kw vs 2kw.


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## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*FINAL PLEA*

My final point....plea really .. is that anyone reading this concentrates on what really matters,which is of course , enjoying yourself once you get there...remembering that the "van" is only a means of transport and accommodation.

Perhaps its just me but people seem to get sidetracked into a world of up-grading vans, upgrades, add -ons, gadgets and thinking that a new super-dooper van will solve all their problems: whilst all that's needed is a sensible approach to gear and an adventurous spirt

The question to be answered should be.

What can i do once i get there ?Not, what gear can i be persuaded to buy to get me there?

except of course snow tyres/chains and good carving skis


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Andy - I agree with a lot of what you say, until it comes to something like useing your motorhome for skiing accommodation at altitude. Most every year you can see people in utter misery and having to give up their holiday, or relocate lower down miles away, because they are completely frozen up when the temperature starts to plunge. Definitely one area where you should think the matter through.


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## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*definitely last points!!*

If your heading into the mountains in winter it is sensible to buy the best equipt van you can get and I bow down to OBI 1,s sound advise. 
Anyone on here who has driven a van in snow will know what a pig they are ( esp on old style Michelin camper tyres ) .Ive taken the liberty to draw up a few items and points which i think are vital in a "winterized" van heading into the snow and cold....

1 , checked antifreeze down to say -20oC
2 , Good condition batteries both leisure and engine
3 , Lots and lots of propane and adapters to fit local cylinders
4 , A warm sleeping bag for heater failure
5 , A recently "re-battered" carbon monoxide alarm
6 , A long electric lead for winter aires and campsites
7 , A 20l water container to store water in case your pump freezes
8 , And a set of correctly inflated snow tyres to suit local laws
9 , A length of cheap thick temp carpet in the van as extra warmth and protection

expecting the worst ( or best in a skiers case) we also carry

10 , A pair of economy snow chains and the following kit

kneeling mat, small stiff brush to clear snow off tyre, a small steel collapsible shovel, a large aluminium bladed wooden handled snow shovel, thin workmans gloves , high vis vest, a heavy duty tow strap with big shackles each end and several 12 inch bungees to tension chains

A genny and small fan heater are very useful to de-frost frozen bits also( both mechanical and human)

a final point .....PRACTICE putting the snow chains on in the summer on your drive with a cup of tea and a few biccies .....it makes it sooooo much easier second time around in a blinding blizzard and 2 foot of snow

any more points welcome
sue and andrew


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