# Side marker lights and MOT



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Side marker lights are the orange lights positioned at intervals along the side of vehicles which are illuminated when the sidelights are switched on.


As far as I know they are not required by Construction and Use rules, as confirmed by looking at a large dealer's stock where only about 1/3 of MHs had them.


They were not part of the MOT until recently and my MH had passed previously with 2 of them not working.


I know the principle that if something is fitted it has to work, but it also has to be in the Test, otherwise the cab radio would have to be tested.


DVSA are responsible for issuing CoCs and obviously do issue them for vehicles without side marker lights.


DVSA are also responsible for deciding what items are in the Test.


It seems illogical that an item which does not have to be fitted has to be tested - see my analogy re the radio.






We found out that the bulb holders had corroded. Fortunately the first dealer/repairer we tried, Choose Leisure near Canterbury, stocked the identical lights, so replacement was simple. I can recommend Choose as I have had a supplementary lock fitted there and their team seem to be knowledgable and efficient, if not the cheapest, but monkeys/peanuts etc.


Geoff


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

The MOT tester is required to test the operation of any side markers present:
The Tester will inspect:

Headlamps for aim and operation
Sidelights (known as position lamps) for location, operation and condition
Side marker lamps and end outline marker lamps (as appropriate) for presence, location, operation and condition.
Stop lamps for presence, operation and condition.
Daytime running lamps (for vehicles made after 1/3/18)
Direction indicators and hazard warning lamps for presence, condition and operation and flashing frequency.
Front fog lamps (for vehicles made after 1/3/18) for presence, condition and operation.
Rear fog lamps
Reversing lamps (for vehicles made after 1/9/09)
Rear registration plate lamps
Rear reflectors

The cab radio isn't listed as an item to be tested so can be non functional. Any side markers that have been installed have to be operational.
Its as simple as that.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Can't see side marker lights in the MoT manual https://www.mot-testing.service.gov...amps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html. The reg. regarding lights being working and clean only applys to mandatory lights. Side marker lights are not mandatory for passenger vehicles and other vehicles under 6 metres. See section 23 and schedule 9 of the Road Vehicle Lighting regulations 1989 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Stick a bit of gaffer tape over them Geoff. Outa sight outa mind.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Cronkle at Patp seem to differ.


I have checked PatP's reference and it is for light vans updated June 2019.


Cronkle did not give a reference for his information.


I was not challenging whether they are in the Test now. I accepted the Tester's info that the Marker Lights had been intoduced into the test recently, although I now wonder if it is for Class 7 and not Class 4.


However, accepting that they are in the Test, it still seems illogical for DVSA to put them in a safety test but not in the requirements to have them fitted as a safety item in the first place. It is either safe to drive without them or not.





Ray


Had I known about the recent requirement I could have obscured them or removed them, but not for a re-test as the fail was already in the DVSA computer.


Geoff


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Cronkle at Patp seem to differ.
> 
> Cronkle did not give a reference for his information.


Geoff. Both links are to Govt websites.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Is it akin to spare tyres? If you have one then it has to be legal - but if you haven't one then not a problem.


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> Cronkle at Patp seem to differ.
> 
> I have checked PatP's reference and it is for light vans updated June 2019.
> 
> ...


Side markers being fitted or not are covered under the vehicle construction regulations.
So when the MH is made and registered having side markers are included if they are deemed needed due to other factors related to the vehicle.
So its possible the side markers have been added and are important (and therefore must work) or where added as a nice touch and unneeded but the tester can't access that.
If you took them off and replaced with amber reflectors I'm sure the tester wouldn't query it.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Pat-H said:


> Side markers being fitted or not are covered under the vehicle construction regulations.
> So when the MH is made and registered having side markers are included if they are deemed needed due to other factors related to the vehicle.
> So its possible the side markers have been added and are important (and therefore must work) or where added as a nice touch and unneeded but the tester can't access that.
> If you took them off and replaced with amber reflectors I'm sure the tester wouldn't query it.


Pat

I think you are correct.

However that does not explain DVSA thinking about why they need to test something, if present, which they do not deem to be necessary to be present for safety purposes when they pass the vehicle for the road initially.

As I said earlier DVSA did not deem it necessary to test them before this year, as mine passed when not working.

Geoff


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

peribro said:


> Is it akin to spare tyres? If you have one then it has to be legal - but if you haven't one then not a problem.


That is a total myth. A spare wheel does NOT have to be legal as it's not 'fitted" to the vehicle.

Pretty pointless having one that ISNT legal IF taken into use though!

Andy


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Crikey! Marker lights are so cheap and easy to replace, what’s the problem!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Spacerunner said:


> Crikey! Marker lights are so cheap and easy to replace, what's the problem!


Of course.

However in post no. 9 I said I do not understand DVSA thinking that they are not in construction and use regs.as an item to be fitted, but are a safety item in the MOT. if fitted. They are either a safety item, and if so should be required in both, or they are not a safety item and should be in neither.

DVSA thinking is what I am challenging.

Geoff


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

The MOT can't be expected to compare and ensure every vehicle complies with the complete Construction and use regs.
So its reasonable to test lights that are fitted that "are often" fitted for safety.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Pat-H said:


> The MOT can't be expected to compare and ensure every vehicle complies with the complete Construction and use regs.
> So its reasonable to test lights that are fitted that "are often" fitted for safety.


The vehicle is 16 years old and the test of side marker lights only came in this year, so on your reasoning it was unsafe for 15 years.

Also if they are needed for safety why does not the same organisation responsible for testing require them in Construction and Use Regs?

Geoff


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Seems sensible to me that if they are a fitted option they should work.

Bit like my two rear fog lights if only one is working it’s a fail.

Terry


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> The vehicle is 16 years old and the test of side marker lights only came in this year, so on your reasoning it was unsafe for 15 years.
> 
> Also if they are needed for safety why does not the same organisation responsible for testing require them in Construction and Use Regs?
> 
> Geoff


Because the MOT tester wold have to have an MOT test specific for every variant. That's not practical so they have a "std" test


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> The vehicle is 16 years old and the test of side marker lights only came in this year, so on your reasoning it was unsafe for 15 years.
> 
> Also if they are needed for safety why does not the same organisation responsible for testing require them in Construction and Use Regs?
> 
> Geoff


Same as all vehicles were unsafe for over 50 years as they didn't have seatbelts fitted.
I believe it's called progress. 😉


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Spacerunner said:


> Same as all vehicles were unsafe for over 50 years as they didn't have seatbelts fitted.
> I believe it's called progress. 😉


I might agree with you that it could be considered 'progress' if the side lights were mandatory under Construction and Use Regs., but they are not, unlike seat belts.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I thought they were mandatory depending on vehicle length, I have sailed through MOTs in the past with one or more not illuminated. Mind you my MOT man has a white stick.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I thought they were mandatory depending on vehicle length, I have sailed through MOTs in the past with one or more not illuminated. Mind you my MOT man has a white stick.


So did our MH in previous years. I believe they were only included in the test about 3 months ago.

Geoff


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Last Tuesday 6th Aug my car passed its MOT. Yesterday I had a nearside break light fail and as I was going out last night I took it to the garage to have it replaced (£5 including a tip).

Whilst in the garage (Top Gear) I asked the MOT tester about side lights on a Motorhome. His answer was that they all had to be working or it would fail, *BUT* if he was within his time limit he would replace the bulb or whatever if possible, and pass the vehicle.

Apparently the testers have to sign onto a computer when they start a MOT and sign out whenever it is finished.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Can't find where in law it says that if lights are fitted they must work. (other than sect.23 of the '89 regs). Would also seem to me that https://www.mot-testing.service.gov...amps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html is the document written for/by DVSA for testers to follow and that https://www.motester.co.uk/mot-test-of-lights/ appears to have been written and produced by what might be called an advisory organisation. Therefore the former is the one that should be seen as definitive.

Also, from memory the exemptions from having side marker lights is for vehicles under 6 metres and passenger vehicles.


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