# Read before it's deleted.



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hmm.

Well thats that then.. :roll: 

A word about Verticalscope.

I was part of Yorkshire Divers forum the biggest and best forum in the world with thousands of diver in the forum from all over the world and it was always first if you googled dive forum in the search engine, infact just about every diver has been in the forum at some time and theres was a core of a few hundred me included that posted all the time.

Well it started off as you have thanking Jay the owner for all the work he has put in as everybody didn't know what was going to happen next.

So we had a look at the new Vertical Scope terms and conditions and realised what was being thrust upon us, the moderators tried to calm everything down saying "there there there" it will be alright, so they were rewarded by being sacked and the forum was moderated from Canada.

Vertical scope put in their own Nuke a vertual face to talk to who made all the right noises saying "there there there" nothing will change well it did, they killed the forum in a month.

The moderators started a new forum out of money from their own pockets, and we chipped in to make it happen so Yorkshire diver went from hundreds of posts a day to you can count them on two hands, and these were from folk who had just joined and didn't know about the eruptions that had gone on, the new "Dive Forum" has evolved to an even better forum that is not flooded with adverts, and both forums were free to the user unlike this where we have to pay to join.

Verticalscope go round buying forums and web sites around the world so they can quote mebership numbers so they can sell advertising by quoting huge numbers when in reality they arent there anymore
as folk have left but leave a bread crumb trail of numbers that can be quoted as advertises think they are talking to thousands as in Yorkshire Divers but in reality maybe only a few, but they are not bothered about the community that has formed within the forum the soul of the thing..

Everybody is just a number to be sold. if you do not believe me there are loads of forums that have followed the same fate as Yorkshire divers on the web...

I am talking from first hand experience and have only this one chance as you were instantly pulled on the other forum if you made waves, so it may be goodbye from me when I mysteriasly dissapear from the boards.


------------------------------------------------------------------

I warned you in this post. 1488334 Posted: 2013-10-27, 14:44:37

Title Unable to open stats page by.Erneboy.

I can't get the link to work, I wonder why?.. :roll: 

Now lets see if this post is pulled, I will put it as an answer and a topic on its own to see.

Just look up the terms and conditions on verticalscopes numerous web sites, you might think everything will be ok and the "there there there" noises will pacify you, I will mourn the loss of MHF's as it used to be.

ray


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## jedi (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks Ray,

That makes interesting reading. If this post is deleted then we know the truth. It does concern me that the owners have no knowledge or interest in motorhoming. 

My subs are due the end of the month but I won't be renewing until I see what develops.

It could have been worse - Google might have taken it over :lol: then we would know we were just targets for advertising and our privacy would be compromised.

Jed


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

jedi said:


> Thanks Ray,
> 
> That makes interesting reading. If this post is deleted then we know the truth. It does concern me that the owners have no knowledge or interest in motorhoming.
> 
> ...


Hi.
Whether you renew or not is of no interest to Verticalscope, the mebership numbers is the only figure they are interested in, they can quote that as it is a fact as nobody can delete there membership once your in your in and you make up the nubers that can be quoted, so you have already lost even if you leave the forum, you are in it forever even when your dead.

We explored every avenue in every direction on Yorkshire Divers as well as talking to other forums etc through out the web for a solution, we are all sewn up like kippers.

ray.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

jedi said:


> My subs are due the end of the month but I won't be renewing until I see what develops.
> Jed


and me :-({|=


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I'll be doing the same . . . Watching ! 
Any hint of MHF going titsup & I'll be another one not renewing


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Regarding in for ever, I have noticed that with photographs.
My photo's are hosted by Photobucket and on my previous forum, if I deleted a photo in my Photobucket account, it also deleted it on the forum.
On Facts, it stays there!
I think it becomes the forums property!
I did say in the other thread, that it is a business and that is what it is. No room for sentimentality!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I am wondering if advertisers are stupid enough to buy space on sites where there is little or no activity? Alan.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> jedi said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Ray,
> ...


So if the forum dies and everybody leaves what do Vetical scope get out of it?

Paul.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Grath said:


> Regarding in for ever, I have noticed that with photographs.
> My photo's are hosted by Photobucket and on my previous forum, if I deleted a photo in my Photobucket account, it also deleted it on the forum.
> On Facts, it stays there!
> I think it becomes the forums property!
> I did say in the other thread, that it is a business and that is what it is. No room for sentimentality!


That was a big sticking point as well as the photos posted even though they were watermarked by who took them still became the property of verticalscope and they couldn't be deleted off the forum by the owner of the photos..

It went on and on, at least they can't pull the wool over my eyes I saw it for myself, Jay like Nuke took the money and run leaving the turmoil to unfold..

Which it did, on here who knows, they might be happy with taking money off us in subs. :roll:

ray.


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## Roadhogg (Oct 6, 2012)

So now everybody knows why we could all renew our subscriptions for half price a few months ago


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

So if it does go belly-up, a lot of people will blame Nuke and his outdoorbits business will suffer. :roll: 

tony


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Roadhogg said:


> So now everybody knows why we could all renew our subscriptions for half price a few months ago


It was pretty obvious at the time. I managed to refrain from posting it as I didn't think Nuke would be very happy with the speculation that would inevitably have followed, Alan.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Barry tart up and enlarge your weirdo site :lol: you are going to be very busy, no time for buggering off to Europe. :lol: 

tony


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I was wondering if it would have been nice for the new owners to introduce themselves, tell us a bit about what they do and what their plans are and have a face not a corporation to PM or talk to if and when necessary.

Hello is not a lot to ask for.

"Hello Vertical Finger"


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## sooty10 (Feb 22, 2009)

It is always the same when things change, everyone expects the worse. Why not just wait a few months and see how things are then. I will keep my membership going as I get a fantastic deal with my motorhome insurance.

I had to smile at the other side before the thread was pulled, some not very nice comments and who knows the same fate could happen to their club. After all I seem to remember when it started they were NEVER going to charge a fee to be a member, so keep a look out. Maybe the new owners only but the best sites.

I'll get my coat.

Keith.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding in for ever, I have noticed that with photographs.
> ...


I also noted that although I complimented Nuke on his past hard work, I was one of the very few who never received thanks from him. I think it was because I mentioned it was a business then and still is a business now!
What is very concerning, is that the previous owner must have known about the people taking over his business and how they handle acquisitions.
If your report is correct, it shows no concern for us lot!

Further more, as we all know, the only reason to take this business over, would be for advertising revenue, so look out!


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Ah but the other side were slagged off for going to £12 but after Nuke went to £12.50 Jim knocked back to £10 :wink:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

When we had the outage this morning I thought Ray's worst OP fears had been realised.  

While I could not get into motorhomefacts.com I could get onto motorhomefacts.co.uk 'Home Page' buut it would not let me login.

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Regarding the pictures and 'ownership', I wonder if they can apply that to pictures that are linked and not actually uploaded, as ours are?

Just a thought.

Peter


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## prof20 (Jan 11, 2007)

Thanks for being so open Ray. I suppose it's because I was a copper for 37 years and am naturally suspicious especially of change, that I posted the following on day one of the change:-

'Also googled VS. Came across this site with posts about VS going back five years or so.

I appreciate we have to give them a chance but I am not impressed by what has apparently happened to a number of sites they bought out.

Only time will tell.

Sorry you had to sell, Nuke. Understand why. Good luck.

'Click for Link'

The link makes interesting reading. It covers comments from 2007 to 2012.

I also posted two further interesting links later in the same thread:-

Link2

Link3

I think I joined the Legion of the Damned when I posted in reply.

As I said in my posts on the thread, only time will tell, but your posts make uncomfortable reading Ray.

I am now going out to purchase a paddle.

Roger


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Is Ray still here? Not like him to stay so quiet or not thank anyone on one of his own threads, Alan.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

AG now operate Volkszone following a similar 'owner struggling with task of keeping site up ans running' not a criticism either as its not an easy task. They havehad teethinb problems but I would guess thats to be expected. They have no real interexst in Vee Dubs either, asma parallel to their interest in motorhomes...


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I thought that, I've pm d him,

tony


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Ray did quote one of my replies, so he was here again!
Probably having a kip :wink:


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## prof20 (Jan 11, 2007)

According to the HomePage he's not currently on line.

Roger


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps they will hike the sub fees for those that do not want ads and the riff raff can have free access but enough Viagra adverts to put you off your stroke.  (If you are lucky enough to have something to stroke)


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grath said:


> Ray did quote one of my replies, so he was here again!
> Probably having a kip :wink:


Or perhaps not????

Apparently Sandra has been feeding him way too much Fruitcake. :wink:


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

They have already promised not to increase advertising, so it baffles me why MHF was so attractive to them. 
There are only a few thousand paying subscribers, is it about 4000??, so they are not going to get rich with subs alone are they??

So unless they know a way to entice the 80000 odd "members" to cough up, then I don't see the value.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

motormouth said:


> They have already promised not to increase advertising, so it baffles me why MHF was so attractive to them.
> There are only a few thousand paying subscribers, is it about 4000??, so they are not going to get rich with subs alone are they??
> 
> So unless they know a way to entice the 80000 odd "members" to cough up, then I don't see the value.


Add revenue will go on the number of visitors and throughput to the site not the number of daft old sods like us who keep the thing going.

I think its quite high. There are plenty of web analytical tools out there in the public domain that should let any potential advertiser with half a brain cell make up their own mind if a site is worth advertising on or not. I did say half a brain cell so that might discount a few.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps he has been renditioned to Canada with a female spook trained to hunt out difficult forum members. I just hope its not Miss Mable Leaf. She has no pity.  (and small tits) 8)


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Apparently Ray has been seized by the CIA and bundled into a Special Ops transport aircraft. I think the rendition will take place in Morocco (that's nice for him  ) and the Canadian equivalent of the Secret Service will shortly start removing his toenails. Chiropody must be a sideline of theirs. I am not surprised, it costs me £20 a time at the Chiropodists. 8O 

Does anyone have a spare Burqa they can smuggle in to the jail? He is one of us (as opposed to one of them :? ) and we must help him. I tried pushing a file into one of the wifes cakes but it broke the file. :roll:


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Pusser said:


> Perhaps he has been renditioned to Canada with a female spook trained to hunt out difficult forum members. I just hope its not Miss Mable Leaf. She has no pity.  (and small tits) 8)


You never fail to raise a smile with your little "addendums".


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Well thats that then.. :roll:
> 
> ...


I don't doubt what you say Ray, but how exactly did they "kill the forum" , if we knew in advance perhaps we can stop that happening.

Also if they are using it to generate advertising revenue, I assume the adverts will be on the forum, so we can contact the companies and inform them that all is not what they have been told, big companies talk to eachother and before long they would be on their knees, won't help us, but I'm about ready to pack it in anyway, this is my first post in a week, which is unlike me, but I didn't join Verticalscrewup, I joined MHF, and as often as I criticised Nuke, he was at least doing his best I think, so stuck with it and had a little moan like everyone else, but these clowns can manage without me I think, not decided yet


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello peeps I'm back.

Well I told it as it is as far as I see it and folk will make up their own mind, I hope nothing changes as far as this forum is concerend...

I would ask the present ownership to post here a full copy of their "Terms and conditions" then folk can make up thier own minds to the suitability them selves. Who ever "owns" the site is of little interest to the membership, being able to accsess someone and how it will affect them is!.

And If the present owners would like to comment on my first post to challenge the accuracy of it I would love to hear their version.. If there is any inacurasies I will publish an apology, if the present owners aknowledge I speak the truth can they publicly aknowledge my origional post as a truthfull account of what happened and it will "defianatly" not happen on this forum. I have a copy of all the posts as have others from Yorkshire Divers relating to the difficulties a year back, and can accsess Yorkshire divers to confirm present membership threads.

I am not aimed at getting any revenge for past deeds from the present owners, I just want reasurance that the forum will continue in it's present form without any fiddling round the edges or going straight for the entire forum with a one size fits all terms and conditions that will ruin it..

You might use it as a buisness asset but to us here it is personal and I wouldn't want a "Yorkshire Divers" scenario..

Like Yorkshire Divers there are folk on here with a bit of savy and will not be fooled easily, others will be the lambs you crave and will follow any old bell that some one is ringing,

I also noted when I logged back on any thanks for the origional posts were not showning, while it is nice to be thanked it is also not nice to be censered and is a reflection on whatI said in my first post, if it is a "computer glitch" fair enough, but I am sure you are aware I have the e mail copys that are automaticaly sent out, well that's solved the thanks are back so apologys on that aspect..

And any monitoring of any PM's will be a waste of time, we have other means of communication with the members who are watching this topic with interest...But I am sure you do not moniter PM's as that would open an entirley different can of worms...

I await your comments..

ray


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

rayrecrok said:


> I would ask the present ownership to post here a full copy of their "Terms and conditions" then folk can make up thier own minds to the suitability them selves.
> 
> ray


Hi Ray, 3/4 weeks ago I suffered a bit of a glitch on the site and was going around in circles unable to sign on until I had ticked Nuke's T&C box.

Out of interest I glanced at it as I did. It was very comprehensive. I can't imagine the new one to be any more draconian.

As far as I could see Nuke had rights over everything I did and thought including Droit du seigneur over every female relative. 

Dick


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> My photo's are hosted by Photobucket and on my previous forum, if I deleted a photo in my Photobucket account, it also deleted it on the forum.
> On Facts, it stays there!
> I think it becomes the forums property!


Is this new ?

I used to have several blogs and photos albums on here - ages ago- but deleted them all and, as far as I am aware- they stayed deleted.

G


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > My photo's are hosted by Photobucket and on my previous forum, if I deleted a photo in my Photobucket account, it also deleted it on the forum.
> ...


I don't think it is new, as I remember trying a while back, but yesterday, I again did a test and removed a photograph from Photobucket. It is still on here! :twisted: 
From an old memory, I seem to remember reading something in the T&C that everything you post, becomes the property of the site!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> I don't think it is new, as I remember trying a while back, but yesterday, I again did a test and removed a photograph from Photobucket. It is still on here! :twisted:
> From an old memory, I seem to remember reading something in the T&C that everything you post, becomes the property of the site!


I'm glad I got mine off in time then ! It was some years ago but well after the 4 times yearly photo competition as I used to enter that as well as putiing up albums of our travels.

G


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

My subs are also due next month. 
If this forum is going belly up as seems possible perhaps those who haven't already should join the other side and make it as good as this once has always been. 
After all most of the data base information has been supplied by the members so could easily be given to another forum.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I have put it out for discussion for the present owners and membership, how it goes from here is out of my hands and I will not participate in a witch hunt, get the facts from verticalescope and make up your own minds.

Silence from them will speak volumes, so I hope they will respond someone will have to take on the poisen challice in Canada to deal with it sometime. Lets see what a new week brings.

ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hello peeps I'm back.
> 
> Well I told it as it is as far as I see it and folk will make up their own mind, I hope nothing changes as far as this forum is concerend...
> 
> ...


Bloody hell Ray your back!! Ive organised a Revolution in your absence as well as a Wake as we all thought you had been bumped off! I was about to write your obituary and publish on "That new forum" everyones on about!

Business as usual then?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

A VERY interesting thread Ray, I genuinely do not know what is happening or is likely to happen with MHF.

I joined MHF to seek help, which was given within minutes and this pattern has been repeated every time I have sought advice.

I am not surprised that Nuke felt it was time to withdraw - the problems were becoming impossible to overcome sadly, with the hacker earlier in the year and the recent odd happenings which attracted a lot of negative comments - from me as well as many others. All of which would have ceased if there had been a simple "We have problems and are trying to overcome them" type announcement stuck at the top of the front page.

I genuinely wish Nuke the best for the future - I have had a good relationship with him for years, although at times we have not seen eye to eye over some things.

As to the future? Your post does give me cause for concern - it is based on first-hand experience and that should always be accorded a high degree of confidence. So in no way would I dismiss your views as incorrect or untrue - like you I hope that an account will be forthcoming although of course, there may be a 12 hour delay since AFAIK it is only Sunday morning in Toronto.......

I am a member (now) of another forum that Phil administers;

mytractorforum.com which is of interest to me as I run two garden tractors (OK I know that is sad :roll: ..... but with 2 1/2 acres of "grass" to cut it is either that or a flock of sheep and the ground is not suitable for those :lol: ). I wait to see if that forum attracts a similar rate of posting to MHF - but at present that seems unlikely.....

My membership is paid until January 2015, so I will simply wait and see, with Ray's experience in my background knowledge.......

Thanks Ray for this extremely interesting thread.

Dave


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Were the new owners told we are in th UK? 
I just realised why the recent posts on the home page are 5hrs behind...
Its Toronto time! !!!


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll: 

AG et al have been running VZi/Volkszoner for 16 months now - it still works.

Rumour mongering is unnecessary...


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

1302 said:


> Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll:
> 
> AG et al have been running VZi/Volkszoner for 16 months now - it still works.
> 
> Rumour mongering is unnecessary...


Hi.

So is a train wreck, fore warned is for armed.. Information is given use it or discount it as anybody pleases.

I want the staus quo to continue on here, I have no wish to see the forum harmed.. And if verticalscope do ok and make a bob or two out of it without affecting the membership, good luck to them..

ray.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

1302 said:


> Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll:
> 
> AG et al have been running VZi/Volkszoner for 16 months now - it still works.
> 
> Rumour mongering is unnecessary...


Thats as maybe but they haven't exactly kept their eyes on the ball here so far have they ?


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## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*organplayer*

Well, like everyone else on our supa dupa site, I hope Vertiliscope or whatever it is called, don"t rattle our "birdcage" too much and leave things in the main as they are. Just in case our site has gone belly up by the time we get back from Spain, I want to thank every contributor on here for all the advice and laughter management and I have had from "our friends" on here. Hopefully things will turn out better than we expect.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll:
> ...


no one died...
Hardly earth shattering problems.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Penquin said:


> A VERY interesting thread Ray, I genuinely do not know what is happening or is likely to happen with MHF.
> 
> I joined MHF to seek help, which was given within minutes and this pattern has been repeated every time I have sought advice.
> 
> ...


Geese man, geese! Much less work and worry than sheep and keep as good a sward! And ecco and belly friendly too!  Mind you don't slip though :wink:

Dick


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have put it out for discussion for the present owners and membership, how it goes from here is out of my hands and I will not participate in a witch hunt, get the facts from verticalescope and make up your own minds.
> 
> ...


Ray

I am glad you are still here - there were problems this morning.

You posted your requests to the new owners in 'Motorhome Chitchat' and as they may not be monitoring all sub-forums may I suggest you copy/post it to Site Announcements/Admin to ensure it gets attention soon and hopefully a reply.

Geoff


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## harry (Jun 8, 2005)

had value for my subs over several years without being a regular contributer.. can you tell me what or who is "the other side"
thanks


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

1302 said:


> BrianJP said:
> 
> 
> > 1302 said:
> ...


Curious? 
I think something may have been missed here.
The point is that whilst the previous owner may have started the forum its success is probably due to the posts and databases created by its members . Therefore when it is sold ? (and that is a mystery in itself) to an openly commercial organisation its not surprising that the membership may feel uneasy and let down 
as MHF has been a sort of on line club for motorhome owners.
It certainly hasn't helped that the new owners are very slow to respond to MHF members.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

harry said:


> had value for my subs over several years without being a regular contributer.. can you tell me what or who is "the other side"
> thanks


I did try to reply to this, but if you put

hxxp://www.m*t*rh*m*f*n.co.uk/

It comes up in the preview as

http://www.fun.co.uk/

Has it started?

Malcolm


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm puzzled about repeated references to advertising on this site. Apart from Classifieds and Outdoor Bits on the left hand panel, I don't recall seeing any adverts. Have I misunderstood something?


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

cavs said:


> I'm puzzled about repeated references to advertising on this site. Apart from Classifieds and Outdoor Bits on the left hand panel, I don't recall seeing any adverts. Have I misunderstood something?


Maybe you have set your browser to ignore ads. ?

Malcolm


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

emjaiuk said:


> cavs said:
> 
> 
> > I'm puzzled about repeated references to advertising on this site. Apart from Classifieds and Outdoor Bits on the left hand panel, I don't recall seeing any adverts. Have I misunderstood something?
> ...


I certainly have, but I've never seen any on the iPad, either.

This raises another question: if ad blockers of various types are so effective, how can site owners expect to generate income, or advertisers sales, through this medium? If we can all block ads, nothing much should change on this site.


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

What a shame it would be if we all lost the information that's been stored on here in the last couple of years,if your looking to go to virtually any country in the world someone has been there and left info and help for people to follow,I've had far more than my money's worth on here with help and advice that's been freely given ( not just motor homing) and can't believe that cos nuke has sold up there's panic in the ranks,at the end of the day it's up to us to make this work and my subs are up at the end of the month and I'm staying...........just hope I'm not wishing myself a merry Xmas here in a couple of weeks as Billy no mates


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

emjaiuk said:


> I did try to reply to this, but if you put
> 
> hxxp://www.m*t*rh*m*f*n.co.uk/
> 
> ...


NO, nothing has "started" - there has been an automatic ban on that site for more years than I have been a member so that is nothing new, so relax.....

and to tyreman1;

no you will NOT be by yourself, my membership runs until January 2015 and I fully intend to continue using it to the fullest extent.

At present there are a lot of unanswered questions, but that is not surprising since although we have been told that the ownership is being transferred we have not been told when, and there appear to be other things that also still need sorting out as Phil, the new administrator has said; renewing subscriptions, the campsite database and others have all been mentioned, but such things take time to finalise.

So tyreman1, you and I (and I suspect about 99.99% of the current subscribers) will still be here and, while things MAY change it is possible that at present a lot of concerns will prove to be misplaced and unfounded.

Only time will tell - there is no such thing as a crystal ball that reliably foretells the future.

Dave


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

Well I renewed my subs the day before the takeover 8O - so as a good Yorkshireman I shall be hanging around (to get my moneys worth... I hope)  Good timing or what? 
At the end of the day what's £12.50 between friends? (a lot of yorkshire puds!!) But as the eternal optimist I shall ignore the tales of doom and continue to get my own (particular) value from MHF - as long as I can.

PS I have enrolled with the oposition - just a bit of insurance tha knows :wink:


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

tyreman1 said:


> What a shame it would be if we all lost the information that's been stored on here in the last couple of years,if your looking to go to virtually any country in the world someone has been there and left info and help for people to follow,I've had far more than my money's worth on here with help and advice that's been freely given ( not just motor homing) and can't believe that cos nuke has sold up there's panic in the ranks,at the end of the day it's up to us to make this work and my subs are up at the end of the month and I'm staying...........just hope I'm not wishing myself a merry Xmas here in a couple of weeks as Billy no mates


It`s in the intersts of the new owner to have a flourishy forum and that asset is a huge part of it.

Dick


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> emjaiuk said:
> 
> 
> > I did try to reply to this, but if you put
> ...


Dave

You refer to info from 'Phil, the new administrator' - I have not seen anything from him and many people have been complaining about no contact.

Could yo please give us a reference to where Phil posted.

Geoff


----------



## Bern2544 (Sep 15, 2012)

Personally I don't see what the problem is, I don't care who ultimately owns or runs the site as long as it is up and running. We the users pretty much run the forum and as long as people still ask questions or raise interesting posts and we then respond to them then the forum will continue to flourish.

As for who owns photographs unless you sell the rights or agree to pass the rights to a third party then you still own them. I have had issues with agencies where I sell photographs, the threat of court usually resolves the problem.

Bern


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1506601.html#1506601

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1515634.html#1515634

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1515570.html#1515570

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1515650.html#1515650

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1511089.html#1511089

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1510961.html#1510961

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1507721.html#1507721

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1508409.html#1508409

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1508737.html#1508737

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1508801.html#1508801

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1515250.html#1515250

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1515570.html#1515570

But I have not seen any posts from him since 7th November..... presumably he has the weekend off, unlike Nuke who was expected to be around 24/7 and we sadly found that he couldn't be......

He has posted a total of 19 posts according to his profile;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-userprofile-81723.html

Dave


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll:
> ...


no one died...
Hardly earth shattering problems.


----------



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

C`mon Dave he`s doing it for wages  

Dick


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

Thanks for those links.

After the first few comments on Nuke's original announcement I did not have the energy to follow the next 20 pages as I thought they were all comments from MHF Members.

Maybe Phil should have opened a new topic because not only I, but, judging by other comments on different threads, lots of people have missed Phil's posts.

Geoff


----------



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

As an aside I find this site is now polluted by a lot of di****ads who just post a lot of s^^^e on some posts to get themselves heard.The other week I asked for a bit of important information and 4 out of 5 replies were drivel by ar*****es wanting to boost their post count.Please,please ,please can we get back to being a helpful forum and not worry about who runs it?


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1488797.html#1488797

Read and decide for yourself. But note no deleted words in this reply.

and I am not interested in boosting my post count thanks......

I just do not like such comments - people post to try to help, at no point in your opening post did you include any reference to your background knowledge so the replies were trying to be helpful



bigtree said:


> My friend has an EBL 101 control in his Dethleffs and his batteries are very hot,does anyone know where the nearest specialist/dealer is to Calpe where he can get it checked? They have been here for around a week on hook-up but the control is still showing a high charging current,they are new batteries just replaced in May.Van is still under warranty but the supplying dealer wants it checked by a company here in Spain,before they will take any action.


Dave


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

bigtree said:


> As an aside I find this site is now polluted by a lot of di****ads who just post a lot of s^^^e on some posts to get themselves heard.The other week I asked for a bit of important information and 4 out of 5 replies were drivel by ar*****es wanting to boost their post count.Please,please ,please can we get back to being a helpful forum and not worry about who runs it?


Wow I might have agreed with you but it
seems to me you may have just done the same thing.


----------



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

I don't think so,I asked a valid question and there was only 1 reply that helped.The other 4 did not refer in any way to anywhere near Calpe where my friend could get Dealer support.


----------



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

bigtree said:


> As an aside I find this site is now polluted by a lot of di****ads who just post a lot of s^^^e on some posts to get themselves heard.The other week I asked for a bit of important information and 4 out of 5 replies were drivel by ar*****es wanting to boost their post count.Please,please ,please can we get back to being a helpful forum and not worry about who runs it?


Hmm.

Well I have just looked at Daves link to your post you are refering to, and fail to see anything of the points you are trying to make..

The only relevant part of your post to this thread is about being helpfull and not worrying who runs it, which is your comment and is fine, the rest I have difficulty with, to ask for help is a privalige not a right, folk will help when they can, which they certainly did in reply to your question, and you then berate them for doing so in this thread.

And that is "Not" what MHF's is about.

ray


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

3 of the other replies were suggesting techniques that might have helped identify what the problem was due to and possibly prevent either further damage or failure to be able to use the equipment.

With hindsight (yours) it is easy to see why these posts may not have helped you, but to someone without your background knowledge they could have made the difference between curtailing a trip or continuing it and damaging irreparably items of equipment on the vehicle.

Such things are bound to happen when a post does not give full information since many people on MHF do not have that level of experience and may well have found such information to be of benefit.

IMO the only comment that could be thought of as facetious in any way was the comment about KERS batteries and F1 - and then we do not know the background experience of the poster - so to him that might be a very relevant response based on his background knowledge......

BUT this is all {offtopic} from what was originally posted - but then so are my replies.......

Dave


----------



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Well this bit gives anyone an idea what I requested,
does anyone know where the nearest specialist/dealer is to Calpe where he can get it checked? 

Only ONE person gave me any help to my request.

I have been on this forum for more than 6 years now so I'am not a novice.Yes there are many people on here that help but there are also many more halfwits that just like to bump their gums.


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

bigtree said:


> As an aside I find this site is now polluted by a lot of di****ads who just post a lot of s^^^e on some posts to get themselves heard.The other week I asked for a bit of important information and 4 out of 5 replies were drivel by ar*****es wanting to boost their post count.Please,please ,please can we get back to being a helpful forum and not worry about who runs it?


The 4 a*******s (I hope I have spelled that right) who replied possibly did it to 'bump' your request back to the top of the pile. So they were helping.


----------



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

bigtree said:


> Well this bit gives anyone an idea what I requested,
> does anyone know where the nearest specialist/dealer is to Calpe where he can get it checked?
> 
> Only ONE person gave me any help to my request.
> ...


Nah too easy!.

ray.


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Big tree sems to have offended anyone who might help in future :roll: 

tony


----------



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

So pray tell Ray what is this forum for???????????


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

bigtree said:


> but there are also many more halfwits that just like to bump their gums.


I do agree that having a halfwit reply can be frustrating but if two halfwits reply then you get a whole wit which would be helpful.

Anymore than that and you are on to Premier Help as 10 halfwits would amount to 5 wits which are more than capable of sorting out your problem.

I used to be a half wit so I know what I am talking about and if one more half wit contributes to my post then we are talking expertise.

But with ageing I am afraid I have been reduced to a quarter wit and this does cause immense problems sometimes but I think some members are happy to make allowances in respect of my age and reducing wisdom.

If I can offer any further advice, please do not hesitate to ask and hopefully we have enough half wits on line to make a team. 8)


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> 3
> The point is that whilst the previous owner may have started the forum its success is probably due to the posts and databases created by its members .


do you really beleive that?! ?.. 

Christ, almighty. There is a lot of good info here but the idea that nothing more than 10 percent of stuff posted here 'made its success' is laughable...

nuke editted out more shyte 
than anything like substance...


----------



## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Look at the bright side folks
Nuke could have sold the forum to Brownhills :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Alan H


----------



## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

What I find a little interesting is that Nuke has sold the forum, But Outdoor Bits is still advertised as the Sister shop to Motorhome Facts, so Has he sold it all?


----------



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I think that the terms and conditions that we all signed up to are not the terms and conditions that will now be thrust upon us, so if you do not aggree with them you have only one course of action and that is to leave the site and forfit any money you have paid and leave all your contributions to the site behind..

Ok you take on board the new Terms and Conditions, along with them you get the killer one.. You forefit English Law for Canadian Law and that is what everyone on here will have to do.

Now how many lawyers do you know that specialise in Canadian Law in the UK if you have a problem that needs sorting what ever it happens to be..

On the other forum folk would not sign up for it so just about everybody left, and those who have joined since probabley do not realise the implications....

Discuss.

ray.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> Ok you take on board the new Terms and Conditions, along with them you get the killer one.. You forefit English Law for Canadian Law and that is what everyone on here will have to do.
> 
> ...


I agree with you Ray, I had also re read the T & C and people must be aware of the claim society over there.
However, I do believe that many other forums which have USA servers might also be effected.
I also refer to Friutcakes! of which I also read the T & C


----------



## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

prof20 said:


> Thanks for being so open Ray. I suppose it's because I was a copper for 37 years and am naturally suspicious especially of change, that I posted the following on day one of the change:-
> 
> 'Also googled VS. Came across this site with posts about VS going back five years or so.
> 
> ...


Wow, didn't get to the end of the threads but saw enough to know I don't want to be part of anything like that. What a shame. I have so enjoyed my time on here and it looks as though it is coming to an end.

I wished Nuke all the best on the other thread, but have to say if I had seen this first might not have done so. Sorry Nuke but I think maybe there could have been a better way out!

I doubt I will be renewing when the time comes but have a few months before that comes up. I wish us all luck.

Gary.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As a direct result of the concerns being expressed I also read the T & C of the Fruitcakes religiously and IMO they seem fairly standard for all such places where we participate......

OK in the end Canadian Law might be held responsible, but what about European Law since we joined and pay via UK based sites - I strongly suspect that the ECHR would want to get involved if things went that far.....

But AFAIIK no-one in my memory has been in a position where recourse to the legal system was required - perhaps we are not aware if it has happened, but I wonder whether we are building a mountain out of a possible molehill that may not even exist.....

I may be naïve and gullible but I will wait and see how things develop, to do otherwise is very much like putting the cart before the horse as we have no idea what, if anything, will change.

I have read all of Philip's posts (all 19 of them) and at present am reassured by what he says - and also by what I have found on another site that he currently administers where such concerns as are being suggested as might happen do not seem to have arisen.

MHF is a framework but the content and the assistance does not come from the system, but the responses of other members - unless everyone decides not to participate what is the worst case scenario? The system changes? If so the statistics will change and advertising revenue will fall. We have already been reassured that there are no plans to increase advertising on MHF - so why not wait and see and why worry needlessly?

However much we as individuals worry about such things we cannot change anything, only respond by either renewing when it is due or not - that is surely the only action open to us?

Nuke decided to sell, that is his prerogative, even if we all complained he still has the right to do exactly that - MHF is his property and he has decided he has spent enough time and money trying to keep it going at the expense of his family life.

He has sold and I bear him no ill will for doing so - his decision is courageous and ultimately will probably be to the benefit of MHF as new expertise will be brought to bear on the list of problems. He had tried but did not have the time or the expertise so decided enough is enough.

It was his decision and nothing that we can say or do will, or could, alter that decision - so let's all work together for the future. That will help all of us to retain MHF in a manner that we all appreciate.

Dave


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I see no reason to worry at the moment. Let's see how it goes before we judge, Alan.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Regarding the T & C and California or any other non UK law.
It would or could only effect any of us under worse case scenario and most probably for 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the time and for 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of us their will never be a problem.
Think Lucky  
Anyway, you know that the good old USA could ask for your extradition and would probably get it, so be careful not to hack in to the CIA :lol:


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Grath said:


> Regarding the T & C and California or any other non UK law.
> It would or could only effect any of us under worse case scenario and most probably for 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the time and for 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of us their will never be a problem.
> Think Lucky
> Anyway, you know that the good old USA could ask for your extradition and would probably get it, so be careful not to hack in to the CIA :lol:


Or to participate in threads mentioning terrorist organisations  :lol: :lol:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> Or to participate in threads mentioning terrorist organisations  :lol: :lol:


so we had better not mention F ruitcake s then - note the crafty spelling so that GCHQ is not concerned about my contact..... :wink: :lol:

as we all are aware the instigator of that organisation has been responsible for the destruction of mote items than most of us would care to admit........

fortunately they have all been in his own environment / MH ..... :lol:

Dave


----------



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

erneboy said:


> I see no reason to worry at the moment. Let's see how it goes before we judge.


+1 with that

I'm only an infrequent user of MHF anyway - usually to find an answer to a problem - and I have other forums I chat on with friends.

I don't see why people are getting hot under the collar about the site coming under Canadian Law - have you seen the T&Cs you signed up to with Facebook??

as many wise people have said, if you want to keep something secret, do NOT post it on social media. simple as.

if this site does disappear I will be disappointed as it's a great information resource for all us motorhomers so let's see how it pans out eh??


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > Or to participate in threads mentioning terrorist organisations  :lol: :lol:
> ...


MAYBE his IT skills are better than his mechanical ones, and that the IT kit/programmes he uses are a bit more up-to-date than 'Hank the Tank' - we can but hope :roll: :lol: :lol:

Geoff


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)




----------



## sooty10 (Feb 22, 2009)

As far as I can see the only way this forum will go much worse is if everyone starts to leave. I would just bet that if Nuke had never told us about the sale no one would have known any different.
As far as i am concerned this has been a great forum and I have had loads of help from members, so I will be staying unless things get MUCH worse.

Keith


----------



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I don't think anybody is getting hot under the collar, folk want some firm answers not waffle as we actually pay to come on this site..

Soothing noises might work for some, what we are actually going to get for our money is what we should be asking, there are loads of forums out in interwebby land to ask questions, its not perculier to this forum and there are just as many folk with equal or more knowledge on other forums to answer any question so this forum is not unique..

But we have chosen this forum and become part of this particular community of folk, and that is what we should be protecting by asking the owners the right questions that hold them to task to give firm unambiguous answers and not be walked over without a fight..

If everything stays the same I will do cart wheels down the main street, but I can say for certain it wont and that is the rub... Will it become better I doubt it you do not need many of the top posters to leave before it becomes a dried up forum, dominated by folk who only post when they want something a few times a year and it will become as dull as dishwater, or as the new owners count on it re seeds itself with new members, who is on now is of no relevance to a faceless organisation with hundreds maybe thousands of entities like we are part off, why should they cxare if some folk leave, it's not as thought we have feelings and are sad to go as the rug has been pulled from under our feet for no fault of our own..

It's not a person on the other end of this internet connection any more, it is a faceless organisation who's only interest is their balance sheet, get that into your head then your perspective of what is in front of us all comes into focus..

Roll over if you must.. I have a bit of fire still in my belly, I have been here before...

It's nice to get off a plane waving a bit of paper saying Mr Hitler wont come and smack us in the gob, I'm sure everone felt better for a bit knowing that.

All the posts will be scrutinised to see who is militant who is feeble and who couldn't care less, they have been here before and know just when to step in, they do it for a living.

ray


----------



## uncleswede (Apr 16, 2010)

erneboy said:


> I see no reason to worry at the moment. Let's see how it goes before we judge, Alan.


+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 !


----------



## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Well if it rains a this weekends Wellsbourne Rally I will have to think hard about re-subscribing next year.


----------



## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Change is change is change.
When I heard that Nuke had sold I admit I was disappointed. 

Can't blame Nuke for selling MHF on as he felt the time was right and had given more hours, sweat blood and tears that most of us will know.

In an earlier post I said that I wished he had sold it on to a motorhomer with the necessary IT skills etc. Still do but he didn't so we need to see how it pans out.

I have a lot of time and respect for Ray. I have found his posts helpful and informative in the past. His recent posts on this topic have been posted as a warning to us all given his past experience with the new owners on a previous diving forum. It is this personal experience that makes me listen. Had it been a rant for a rants sake I would dismiss the warning BUT given his personal experience I take the posts as they were intended - a warning to keep vigilant.

I really hope that everything goes well as I have greatly enjoyed this forum. Hope for the best.

Cheers


----------



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> I don't think anybody is getting hot under the collar, folk want some firm answers not waffle as we actually pay to come on this site..
> 
> ...


I can see where you're coming from Ray but by their very nature, social media/forums are dynamic and not static, so change is always inevitable as people come and go.

sure, there is a host of "stability" and "familiarity" about MHF but equally, many seem to have got fed up with the place for various reasons and have departed for pastures new.

I'm a long standing member of another forum that's been going through lots of change in the last couple of years as many long standing posters have moved to other similar fora or just disappeared for whatever reason. it doesn't have the same community feel it had but wow - last week - a contentious issue came up and all the old timers came out to chip in comments. it was like the old days had returned. I guess people get bored reading the same old, same old every day but they're still lurking looking for something to chip in on.

and - frankly - at the end of the day, these fora only exist because somebody started it and maybe a company saw a way of making money out of it. if they weren't around, you'd be doing something different.

so if people want to flounce off, let them.

life moves on. constantly.


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

One good thing, since it was announced that a change of ownership was happening, all the hacking ceased, it obviously scared off the scroats

tony


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GEMMY said:


> One good thing, since it was announced that a change of ownership was happening, all the hacking ceased, it obviously scared off the scroats
> 
> tony


Maybe but we have not had an explanation yet for why the siite was down for a couple of hours on Sat morning and again, briefly, that afternoon.

Geoff


----------



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

hmm, 10 pages and it's still here.


----------



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> > One good thing, since it was announced that a change of ownership was happening, all the hacking ceased, it obviously scared off the scroats
> ...


I'm sorry but why precisely do you need an explanation?? is it going to make any difference to your life if you do know??

and anyway, that was then, this is now. move on.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> One good thing, since it was announced that a change of ownership was happening, all the hacking ceased, it obviously scared off the scroats
> 
> tony


Now that is suspicious, I wonder if there is any connection, hack a site, so the owner is immobilised trying to fix it constantly, then offer to buy it, nah, no one would do that would they?


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

fatbuddha said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > GEMMY said:
> ...


Tony was speaking about hacking.

If that were to continue, or

There is a long-term server problem (e.g. not enough capacity)

or major system/programming problem, requiring extensive work and shut-downs

then it would impact on my enjoyment of the site.

If it was just a short-term handover problem like the home page issue, I can assume it will go away and it will not affect me too much.

Geoff


----------



## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*a shot from the grassy knoll?*

yes i wondered who was spending time and money hacking a site full of people who like to live in vans!

were hardly a GCHQ target audience or the kind of operation soft -brained "opposing types" take offence against....eg mcdonalds/primark/BP/US goverment.

I'm not naturally suspicious but the timings convenient.
Is this an example of a cyber "slashed tyre "or brick through the window.


----------



## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

bognormike said:


> hmm, 10 pages and it's still here.


Yeah lookout,it's when it's gets to page 12 we're all rounded up and given a sound thrashing until we all pay our subs for next year !!!


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: a shot from the grassy knoll?*



andyandsue said:


> yes i wondered who was spending time and money hacking a site full of people who like to live in vans!


In the states, we would be refered to as Trailer Trash  :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

only thing worrying me

Is the length of time it sometimes takes to get onto the site

seems very slow now

Aldra


----------



## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

rayrecrok said:


> Hello peeps I'm back.
> 
> Well I told it as it is as far as I see it and folk will make up their own mind, I hope nothing changes as far as this forum is concerend...
> 
> ...


I am still getting caught up on this thread but I wanted to point out a few things. What happened on YorkshireDivers is unique. We posted our terms of service as you requested and the membership decided to interpret it as they saw fit. This caused a whole bunch of members to get their panties in a knot over nothing. The content you post here is still your content, by posting it here you are agreeing to it being published here. since

There is nothing that has changed on that site since we acquired it other than the members trying to destroy it. We are not planning on making major changes to anything on this site, we are not interested in selling your content to anyone. I have tried to keep as open a dialog honestly answering most of the same questions over and over in one thread so it was easy to follow but you see it fit to start your own thread to start trouble. I have not deleted your posts and am making an effort to answer as many questions as I have the time to and will continue to. I would appreciate that if you have an issue you could bring it directly to my attention rather than trying to tell everyone the sky is falling when nothing has changed on the site..


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

aldra said:


> only thing worrying me
> 
> Is the length of time it sometimes takes to get onto the site
> 
> ...


That will be because GCHQ will be monitoring the forum Sandra. Apparently some very dodgy Foreigners have taken control. :lol:


----------



## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

BrianJP said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > Theres no reason foranyone to suggest the site is going belly up... :roll:
> ...


What are you talking about?


----------



## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

nicholsong said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hi.
> ...


A pm would work just fine to get my attention as well.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

how dodgy Heathcliffe?

sounds promising  

I digress, my heart belongs to you and Barry and one or two or three others  

sandra :lol:


----------



## tony_debs (Mar 5, 2009)

morning,have I missed something?


----------



## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

vs_Admin said:


> BrianJP said:
> 
> 
> > 1302 said:
> ...


If you mean me I pointed out that on the home page the most recent posts have the wrong time against them actually your timezone I think.. 5 hours behind us. Bit confusing eh ?


----------



## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

We are aware and are working on this. The software the site runs on wants to pull the time exclusively from the server its on. The server is in Toronto and is seeing the time here. the simple solution is to write a script that will force the site to not look at the time on the server but a time zone we tell it to. This is on the list of things to do and I want to make sure when this modification is made to the database it will not break the site.


----------



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I suppose the forums you look after will have various demographics. This one is weighted toward the old and cantakerous as you may have guessed  Good luck. 

How's the news on the camping database that is important to members? Have full rights been retained by the forum?

Dick


----------



## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*good things to come out of Canada...a list*

Let me start
1 the rock group RUSH
2 ?


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Dick

You are not that old and cantankerous 8O 

Well maybe a tad in that direction :lol: :lol: 

Aldra


----------



## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

Glandwr said:


> I suppose the forums you look after will have various demographics. This one is weighted toward the old and cantakerous as you may have guessed  Good luck.
> 
> How's the news on the camping database that is important to members? Have full rights been retained by the forum?
> 
> Dick


Its in the works. I got the details of what is needed from NUKE regarding the type of file it needs to download as. As far as rights I guess I can answer this by its not going anywhere and we will have it set up so you can download it and have it on hand for when the internet is not working so well on the road. I hope this makes sense. Right now since i am caught up on most of the questions posted to me here I want to work on figuring out what the speed related issues have been on the site today.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I understand that you must have priorities. I wish you well with them.

So after things are settled we can look forward to being able to download the database as a simple coordinates file?

Dick


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

I like the cut of vs_Admins jib. Always good to hear both sides of the story.


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## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

Glandwr said:


> I understand that you must have priorities. I wish you well with them.
> 
> So after things are settled we can look forward to being able to download the database as a simple coordinates file?
> 
> Dick


This is the plan! NUKE has campaigned to make sure this is done right.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I will add my thanks to what Phil (vs_admin) has posted - he has gone out of his way to clarify things and, as I have thought from a very early stage in this whole episode his ideas and efforts are very much geared to keeping MHF working.

He has been open and honest - what more can we ask for?

Thank you for explaining in detail the responses to many points, they may not seem important in the grand scheme of things, but MHF is a community (as has been said before) but one that may well differ from other such communities.

But, looking at the tractor forum, I don't honestly think there is much difference - simply the size of the four wheels involved and the willingness to go onto rough ground......

I am looking forward to being able to participate in MHF for a very long time to come.

Dave


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

vs_Admin said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that you must have priorities. I wish you well with them.
> ...


But Nuke has been the reason it has not being available so far. I don't understand. That wasn`t a fob off answer was it?

Dick


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## VS_Admin (Nov 4, 2013)

I don't have an answer for you about the past. I know that when this was brought to my attention I knew little about it. I approached NUKE to get more background and was give an explanation of what it was and what everyone was hoping to get from it.


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

bloody hell! 13 pages of this already! who gives a **** what time Tonto and the Loan Arranger think it is over there, thankfully we don't have to parlez en francaise - or better still don't have to speak to a goddam Yank!

now is everybody happy again and we can get back on track sorting out gassing issues, reverse gear shudder and damp in the water

oh, and it's no longer summer so everyone has to have a gripe about something

get a grip, it's a computer forum nothing more.


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm sorry but what does it matter who "owns" the website? 

As long as it remains interesting, a place where I can get info on touring, info on motorhome stuff and have a laugh and rant every now and again I'll still be here.

Who cares what happened to divers, tractor owners or anyone else outhere in "web land"? As for my info being passed on to other companies, if I suddenly get e-mails for stuff I don't need like Viagra or penis enlargement then I can delete them. It's not me wasting my cash on sending stuff like that to a love god!

If I get offers on noxious gas detectors I might jib my membership but otherwise let's see what happens eh?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

gassing!!!!

Who where when??? :lol: 

Tonto and Lone Ranger??

You are lying about your age Sprinta   

I'm hoping MHF will go on and on

I'd hate to lose touch with the fantastic characters on here

Aldra


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Annsman said:


> I'm sorry but what does it matter who "owns" the website?
> 
> As long as it remains interesting, a place where I can get info on touring, info on motorhome stuff and have a laugh and rant every now and again I'll still be here.
> 
> ...


If you get emails for Viagra or Penis enlargement could you pass them on to me please.

Thanks.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I'll pass them on Heathcliffe

Well It looks like I need to 8O 8O 

sandra


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

aldra said:


> I'll pass them on Heathcliffe
> 
> Well It looks like I need to 8O 8O
> 
> sandra


Yes Sandra, it would be to your advantage. :lol:


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

vs_Admin said:


> BrianJP said:
> 
> 
> > 1302 said:
> ...


I was under the impression that VS look after Volkszone ( a busy VW forum) and after a few teething problems it runs fine - as I am sure this place will. No need for all 10 pages of doom and gloom about what might happen.


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

lol best read this really quick as its going to be deleted, hmmm looks like VS aren't the overbearing dictators they are being portrayed as 

seriously guys, what would be in it for VS to come on a site, clamp down, make masses of sweeping changes which would all massively cause distrust and unrest and everyone leaves the site ?

No matter how much of a conspiracy theorist you are just think logically about it.

They make money from online advertising (note not email advertising etc), so it wouldn't be a very good business model if hey drive away all the visitors to the site who view adverts. AFAIK a company the size of VS has quite a punch with advertising and as they have such a huge audience they can reach can command much higher commission rates from advertisers vs a one off site alone could. This means they can buy a site, host it on their in house scalable architecture which means cost savings over someone like me running a server on my own for one site and they can then swap out my google ads id for theirs and not change anything and be instantly making more money with less costs than I was. I stress this is my thoughts based on research I did before corresponding with them.

Yes some people use ad blockers but the majority (myself included) leave as is, if the adverts are of interest I might click on them

They run masses of websites globally, they are just settling in here, give them a chance to prove themselves before dragging out the lynch mobs


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

nukeadmin said:


> lol best read this really quick as its going to be deleted, hmmm looks like VS aren't the overbearing dictators they are being portrayed as
> 
> seriously guys, what would be in it for VS to come on a site, clamp down, make masses of sweeping changes which would all massively cause distrust and unrest and everyone leaves the site ?
> 
> ...


Nuke

I think we have gradually got answers to most questions that have been aired, but it feels as though we had to drag them out bit by bit.

You expressed your thoughts about where MHF fits into the VS business model. I hope you are correct, because then we have little to fear.

If you are correct, it would be good to get it confirmed from their Senior Management. As you are apparently still in contact with at least Phil, maybe we could ask you to please promote the idea of a management statement - it could be very helpful in keeping onside those Members who are threatening to withdraw, maybe unnecessarily, from MHF.

Thanks in advance if you can instigate that.

Like so many others I am grateful for your having set-up and developed MHF and for all the hard work you have put in over the years.

Geoff


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Still haven't got the answer as to whether VS are free, if it is the wish of members, to release the campsite database as a coordinates file .

That is was it included in the sale or retained by Ourdoorbits?

Dick


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## val33 (Jun 29, 2008)

vs_Admin said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that you must have priorities. I wish you well with them.
> ...


I thought this post gave the answer you were looking for?

Val


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## val33 (Jun 29, 2008)

vs_Admin said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose the forums you look after will have various demographics. This one is weighted toward the old and cantakerous as you may have guessed  Good luck.
> ...


And this one.

Val


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Glandwr said:


> Still haven't got the answer as to whether VS are free, if it is the wish of members, to release the campsite database as a coordinates file .
> 
> That is was it included in the sale or retained by Ourdoorbits?
> 
> Dick


Check this post from Phil: 1530818 at 10.51pm yesterday on this thread Dick.

He says it will be available for download, Alan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

vs_Admin said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that you must have priorities. I wish you well with them.
> ...


Here it is.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

nukeadmin said:


>


You must give us, the members, a chance to grieve.

When the captain of a ship walks away leaving his crew it will of course cause nausea, despondency and dare I say, vulnerability.

We need time to come to terms with the uncertain future, a corporation running our ship instead of our trusted Captain.

We will gnash our breasts and beat our teeth but we will over come. We will survive.

I was just thinking not once was I fussed about our skipper leaving the ship, but so far, you have been the best skipper in my book.

God save the Queen.


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> I was just thinking not once was I fussed about our skipper leaving the ship, but so far, you have been the best skipper in my book.


Cheers Puss


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Many thanks Val and Alan. But I am not convinced until it happens. To say that the Database will be available for download is not the same as saying that there will be a file containing the coordinates that could be imported into a sat nav or mapping programme that could be used offline.

Nuke for as long as I can remember has steadfastly refused to make such a file available. saying that someone could poach it and turn it to commercial advantage. Do you take it from those posts that there has been a change?

I suppose I am aggrieved because I paid twice for such info so I could use it offline, once in the USB stick and once with the Android app, neither worked satisfactorily. If the database, that was created by members, was made available in such a form I could construct my own system.

I can see ambiguity in the above mentioned answers. It would take no more than 5 mins to post the link to the file. Even less time to say yes it will be published as a spreadsheet. 0v2, or similar form in the near future.

I know that a contract has been made with Tom Tom if the problem is that that has involved exclusive rights then fair enough. But I think members should know

Dick


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

Pusser said:


> I was just thinking not once was I fussed about our skipper leaving the ship, but so far, you have been the best skipper in my book.
> 
> God save the Queen.


So Nuke's a Queen?

I miss him more than ever now


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Pusser ..... I can beat my breast OK but I have no teeth to gnash.

What can you suggest? :?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

747 said:


> Pusser ..... I can beat my breast OK but I have no teeth to gnash.
> 
> What can you suggest? :?


Could you borrow some to nash?

What is nashing?


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

[quote="tubbytuba]
So Nuke's a Queen? 
[/quote]

...and not just any Queen. He was The King of Queens and now he's sodding abdicated. My hero has gone. :cry

Still on the bright side, there's BarryD. 8O:


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Could you borrow some to nash?
> 
> What is nashing?


 Nash is that ville where they sing and twang guitars.
Gnashing is what Gnomes do with their gums.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

747 said:


> Pusser ..... I can beat my breast OK but I have no teeth to gnash.
> 
> What can you suggest? :?


You could do something with your cheeky bum. Very popular in the Navy they are. Never seen one gnashed though.


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

Pusser said:


> ...and not just any Queen. He was The King of Queens and now he's sodding abdicated. My hero has gone. :cry


So what you're saying is he was the Ace of the club?


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Reminds me of the red hot sermon Ian Paisley was giving about the Day of Judgement. In full flow he shouted that there would be a weepind and wailing and a gnashing of teeth.

An old lady at the back said, "What if you have no teeth".

Ian Paisley shouted back, "Teeth will be provided".


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> What is nashing?


From my long distant (not that long) memories of nights out in Newcastle isnt it something Geordie girls are very good at (Usually a Pina Colada is all it takes).

Sorry it might be Noshing :?

8O 8O


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I keep waiting to see when this will be deleted, you did say it would, but when. :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: 

cabby


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> I keep waiting to see when this will be deleted, you did say it would, but when. :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:
> 
> cabby


Seems to me that the O/P was a little misguided in his prediction.............. :lol:

BUT..................

I do think that this thread (and others like it) shouldn't be on the front page.

Most members here have expressed genuine and heartfelt concerns (and some cracking funnies) but I also seem to detect the odd post that could be described as "stirring it up". I don't think it's a good idea to constantly hang out the dirty washing in public for every casual visitor to read, after all the issues being discussed are a concern to subscribers, not to every Tom Dick and Harry that happens to search Google for motorhoming help.
So, I'm intending to report my own post and ask that this thread be moved to the bar. I'll also consider doing the same to any other threads that appear on the same subject.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Well why hasn't it been moved to the 'bar' :?: 

tony


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

gaspode said:


> cabby said:
> 
> 
> > I keep waiting to see when this will be deleted, you did say it would, but when. :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:
> ...


Ken

You have a point but a lot of the discussion has gone on under the title 'MHF Site Changes' in Site Announcements.

I think all the discussion should be in one place and the trouble is it is a bit unwieldy already, especially since a lot of the thread I have cited above was people wishing Nuke well.

I think it might be too late for your idea, but equally I think a casual visitor would not want to spend time ploughing through the morass.

Best Wishes

Geoff


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

the bar is closed from 3pm till 6pm. 8O 8O 8O winter opening times now.

cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

No think you are wrong Gaspode, we have to show warts and all, this is not the BBC. or the Guardian (news)paper. I say no to censorship of this kind, unless more than 60 members say move it.

cabby


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> You have a point but a lot of the discussion has gone on under the title 'MHF Site Changes' in Site Announcements.


And that just really reinforces my point Geoff.

I'm not suggesting that the announcement thread be moved, that one has to stay put and it's where public discussion can continue to take place.

So where does the 60 members arise cabby? :?

And why censorship - it's still available to the people it affects - the subscribers like you and me?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

gaspode said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > You have a point but a lot of the discussion has gone on under the title 'MHF Site Changes' in Site Announcements.
> ...


I think that an overview of the the questions, answers and opinions are incomplete unless the threads are read together(and I think there was one other thread but small)

Had your suggestion come up at the beginning it would have been practical, but just like my belated suggestion that Phil at VS could have started a new topic when he came on, I think it is too late now.

Anyway Ken, I think a lot of the discussion is dying down, because the membership seems to have divided into roughly two segments - those anti whatever, and those, having had some answers, are willing to wait and see.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think I agree with Ken that it is time to move this into the lounge, not lock it or delete it from view by subscribers, but the fact that it is still here speaks volumes to me.

We have had explanations from the admin side as to why the OP reflected their view - as we are all aware when only ne side is visible it is not guaranteed to give the maximum clarity - and that is NOT a criticism of the OP in any way - he said it as he had seen it, totally honestly and openly.

But in the same way that the announcement has effectively stood the test of time, anyone coming on is unlikely to read through these lengthy threads and get the full balanced view; most people would perhaps see the front (first) page only......

Perhaps Phil needs to consider whether the time has come to place *BOTH* threads into the lounge so that subscribers can continue to see and add to them if they wish *AND* for him to start a new thread outlining the way forward as he sees it and as he has explained it in these two threads - it means that he would have to construct the thread, or perhaps the helpers could - I do not know the extent of what permissions they now have, but in the days of the Mods this was within the powers that the Mods had - to create new threads and split others and then merge - it required work to be done, but was possible.......

Those are my thoughts on the threads, I am sure others will not agree with me (which IMO is a less strong statement than they will disagree :? ).

Dave


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think it's run it's course

MHF will continue in the old way

Or continue in the new way

Or fizzle out

Only time will tell

That and the fact that those of us who want it to continue will continue to be here

Who knows, a change is as good as a rest they say :lol: 

Aldra


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

In the 'old ' days I only had to start a thread and before I had refreshed, it had been whizzed into the 'bar' how tolerant we have become. :wink: :lol: 

tony


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> I think I agree with Ken that it is time to move this into the lounge, not lock it or delete it from view by subscribers, but the fact that it is still here speaks volumes to me.
> 
> We have had explanations from the admin side as to why the OP reflected their view - as we are all aware when only ne side is visible it is not guaranteed to give the maximum clarity - and that is NOT a criticism of the OP in any way - he said it as he had seen it, totally honestly and openly.
> 
> ...


Dave

While I was thinking about my post above, I also thought about the idea of merging all the relevant posts into a new thread created by Phil, which was what as you said, was done in the past days of Mods.

However, I did not suggest it because it seems that the new management have enough on their plate at the moment without having to take on this idea - I do not know if it is a concept common to other forums they administer?

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> In the 'old ' days I only had to start a thread and before I had refreshed, it had been whizzed into the 'bar' how tolerant we have become. :wink: :lol:
> 
> tony


Thats because you were just too Rock N Roll for the forum Tony! 

Me too but they just never took me seriously so mine stayed.

Any road up. I dont think it matters where these threads are.

I am a member of perhaps 100 forums or more. I join them all the time, mainly for work and for answers for technical crap. This is the one I spend half my life on though and the one I most like (Well there is another :wink: )

I can honestly say that they are all the same. Everyone you join there is some gripe, complaint or takeover issue going on and I just ignore them.

This is still the biggest resource of Motorhome info and forum activity in the UK and if anyone is serious about joining then they shouldnt be put off.

Who gives a toss who owns it. Its us the members that is the beating heart. Just look at how we welcome newbies. Ive never seen any other forum do that to the extent we do.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Almost 3 years on, still a few moans about the site itself, but not as many about VS as I'd imagined.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Almost 3 years on, still a few moans about the site itself, but not as many about VS as I'd imagined.


And it never was deleted...............>


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yeah, I noticed that, but didn't want to say in case no one else noticed


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

More importantly what happened to Ray (Rayrecrok) the author? I knew he had cancer but we have not heard from him for ages. I tried emailing and PM'ing him a while back. Looks like he logged in back in July though.

Are you there Ray?


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Click on his forum username, last public activity showing was 15th July this year.

Peter


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Yes I saw that Peter but I dont remember him posting for quite some time.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Nope, it just records him logging on, he doesn't have to post anything to register on the database.

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I do hope the lad is okay.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Rayrecrok is alright - ish!

He has asked me, through a mutual friend, to let everyone know that he has been very ill in hospital for some time, and has not felt well enough to post on the forum.

He has several quite serious ailments, but was cheerful when visited this afternoon, and is feeling a lot better. It will be at least another two months before he's well enough to leave hospital because he now has surgery to face, and it's likely to need quite a long convalescence. I don't know the details, but it is quite serious.

He hopes to get online again before to long and will post on the forum when he's able. Thinking about it, he's probably not as sick as the forum . . . and he was dead right with his predictions at the time Nuke sold it!! 

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Dave for that update. If you can relay the message back, tell the cantankerous old sod to stop skiving and get back on here.  Pass on my best wishes as well.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Tell him the same from me as well please.:grin2::grin2:

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yup, best to Ray if you have contact Dave.

A couple of his posts mention Barrett's oesophagus, and others a bone scan, so he must be quite ill, both in the Brexit thread which I largely didn't follow.


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