# Compulsory Daytime Running Lights



## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

I've just received Burstner's 2011 brochure which has a picture of a row of LED daytime running lights, positioned beneath the headlights of the Elegance.

The accompanying print makes mention that these lights "will soon become compulsory".

Obviously this will only relate to new vehicles, but is the legislation going to be EU wide, or just intended for Burstner's home country ?


Ken.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*EU Wide*

As far as I am aware, it will be EU Wide.

Mercedes have just launched their new Vito for 2011 MY and that has them too.

TM


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

I understand that from 2011 all new cars must be fitted with them but oddly enough, as yet its won't be compulsory to use them!

I stand to be corrected on this.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: EU Wide*



teemyob said:


> As far as I am aware, it will be EU Wide.
> 
> Mercedes have just launched their new Vito for 2011 MY and that has them too.
> 
> TM


TM,

Congratulations on your 1000th thank you


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

tonyt said:


> I understand that from 2011 all new cars must be fitted with them but oddly enough, as yet its won't be compulsory to use them! I stand to be corrected on this.


Your are correct. I have no doubt that eventually they will become compulsory and when they do at least most cars will already have them fitted.

I'm in favour as long as they're proper daytime running lights and not the powerful xenon dipped headlights that blind you every time the car coming towards you dips up and down a little.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Hobbyfan said:


> tonyt said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that from 2011 all new cars must be fitted with them but oddly enough, as yet its won't be compulsory to use them! I stand to be corrected on this.
> ...


That's very kind of you, I feel so much better now. :roll:


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Its funny that you should post about this, as only today I saw a car with what must have been these new lights, and thought how awful they looked.....................I suppose I will get used to all these new fangled things in time :lol:


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Compulsory for all cars first registered 1st January 2011 onwards.
Gerry


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

tonyt said:


> That's very kind of you, I feel so much better now. :roll:


That wasn't very nice! I'm sorry that you feel the need for sarcasm.

I wasn't trying to make you feel better, just confirming what you appeared not to be 100% certain about and mentioning that I feel that they are a good idea, which I do.

Rolling of eyes is a little bit rude!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: EU Wide*



Blizzard said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I am aware, it will be EU Wide.
> ...


BIG Thanks!


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I've just made it 1001 :lol: :lol: :lol: makes you sound like a disinfectant. :lol: :lol: 

tony


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> I've just made it 1001 :lol: :lol: :lol: makes you sound like a disinfectant. :lol: :lol:
> tony


Will you clean my carpet for less than half a crown?

Good God, that shows my age!


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

I notice the new 2011 Smart fortwos are going to have them fitted,but not as standard, as a cost option.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Drivers don`t see headlights on motorcycles during the day, so with all new vehicles having lights on will make bikers even more invisible.

Dave p


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Something else to check on the MOT

Loddy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

With the new LED style lights, they seem to consist of a strip of about a dozen LEDs, if one of those fails (OK I know they last ages, use no current virtually and are really reliable etc.!) and the vehicle is due an MOT, wuld that constitute a "fail" as not all of the elctrical equipment is fully working? :? 

This is a genuine inquiry since I believe at present that if one of two number plate lights is not working then that does constitute a fail and with such a large number of LEDs the chances would seem to be greater than something MIGHT go wrong.  

I suspect the cost of replacing would also be high due to its" highly technical specification" or similar! :roll: 

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

As i understand it,
Any lighting fitted must work.

Dave p

We will soon not need to visit Blackpool


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Presuming that it is to be added to the list of lights in Reg 23 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations1989 then they will have to work.

The MOT tester's handbook says that 50% of the LEDs in a high level rear brake light must work so I wonder if they would follow the same ruling.

This also comes from the section 'Obligatory front position lamps' :


'4. Check that the lamps
a. are complete, in good working order
and clean

Note: at least 50% of light sources in a lamp must illuminate 

b. are secure, not obscured, and face to the front or rear as appropriate. Note: At least 50% of each lamp must be visible from the front or rear as appropriate'. This makes me think that they would apply the 50% rule to the new style lamps.


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## dikyenfo (Feb 16, 2008)

I fitted a row of green leds under both mirrors to allow drivers to properly see the width of the MH. I suppose you could call these daytime running lights as when ignitition is on so are the lights.
I put these thro. a relay fired up from ign. and supplied via a 1 Amp fuse for safety. Pedestrians have thanked me as they are sometimes in the line of fire when forced to the kerb due to narrow roads in villages / towns as it gives them some warning of a pok in the gob if they fail to see the mirrors.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

There was a recent independent study that concluded that daytime running lights actually increased the number of road deaths and serious injuries because many drivers are distracted by them. The Elf and Safety-crats obviously gave no weight to this research. 

I agree that it will probably be detrimental to the safety of motorcyclists in particular. 

I also hate the way some manufacturers have put rows of very bright LEDs below headlamps. (Audi for example.) I find them extremely distracting; even dazzling, like foglights being used inappropriately. Simple low wattage running lights incorporated into headlights would be much better and safer. 


SD


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Dont know why they dont just upgrade the vehicles existing sidelights.

cabby


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Yeh, that might help, given the to**ers who drive thinking their sidelights are really useful in heavy rain, thick fog, spray or snow.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

ANYTHING that makes any vehicle more visible has got to be a good thing in my book.

The Scandawegians have had daylight running lights for years now, (think Volvo!)

I am however very against people who instal blue or green (or any other colour other than white) LED's on the front of thier vehicles. My reasoning being that most drivers have an expectation of seeing white lights to the front and Red lights to the rear ( yes yes I have not forgotten indicators which are of course amber { and yes again I know ther are some vintage cars where there is s system for flashing one brake light so it forms and indicator} ) getting confused with all those brackets now   but as a general rule thats what you expect to see. If a different coloured light causes confusion it has to be a bad thing yes??

How many of us have seen brain dead motorcyclists where they have a RED  cover over the headlight 8O 8O ??

In a previous life I dealt with a very serious crash where a biker had done just that and a car driver went for an overtake THINKING the red light on the other side of the road was the a*** end of a bike carrying out an overtake and heading AWAY from him rather than bike coming straight at him   

I rest my case M'lud


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

dikyenfo said:


> I fitted a row of green leds under both mirrors to allow drivers to properly see the width of the MH. I suppose you could call these daytime running lights as when ignitition is on so are the lights.
> I put these thro. a relay fired up from ign. and supplied via a 1 Amp fuse for safety. Pedestrians have thanked me as they are sometimes in the line of fire when forced to the kerb due to narrow roads in villages / towns as it gives them some warning of a pok in the gob if they fail to see the mirrors.


???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Do pedestrians run after you, flag you down to heap praise on you for thoughtfully providing illumination of the bit of your camper you're aiming at them?!?

"if they fail to see the mirrors"?! Why do they need to? Your mirror should not be anywhere near them!

8O

Jason


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Many years ago,I recall a proposal that cars had a single amber light in the middle of the grill illuminated when the engine is running. It was when we had a motor industry!!
My new Hymer,ordered in October 2009 and delivered in April 2010,is on a Transit and has running lights. These are just like additional sidelights.


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## dikyenfo (Feb 16, 2008)

Moderator Note :-
This post has been removed for consideration by the moderators as it contained a personal attack on another member.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

dikyenfo, 
My understanding is that green lights are only to be used to show that there is a doctor actively undertaking an emergency call.
You may well get pulled for a chat and it won't be to congratulate you!
Ever noticed the lack of green lights on other vehicles?


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## chrispeg (Nov 6, 2009)

*Running Lights*

This has all come about due to some little man in Brussels who thinks that we should all run around like the sweeds. 
Now can anyone out there think that having running lights in southern europe, where it is sunny and bright will help anybody?
I think not.
It would help in this country if some people in this country would lean to turn on their lights in the dark or half light.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Running Lights*



chrispeg said:


> Now can anyone out there think that having running lights in southern europe, where it is sunny and bright will help anybody? I think not. It would help in this country if some people in this country would lean to turn on their lights in the dark or half light.


Unfortunately, people are stupid and it isn't always bright and sunny. Even in southern Europe you have rainy and misty days and dawn and dusk.

If people haven't got the brains to switch their lights on when conditions demand, then perhaps it's time to make them compulsory so that they're on permanently.

There's always conflicting evidence but most reports I've seen confirm that permanent running lights do mean fewer accidents.

Going up the motorway yesterday in atrocious weather most of us had our dipped headlights on. They didn't help us to see, but they certainly helped us to be seen. I was about to pull into the third lane when a black Golf GTi loomed out of the spray doing about 85 mph. He had no lights on whatsoever!

Almost as bad are the ones who switch on high-intensity rear fog lights when there's no need. They're like Pavlov's dogs, a bit of mist or rain? On with the fog lights! Then of course they forget to switch them off and drive around for days dazzling everyone! Grrrrr!


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
People have obviously grown used to ignoring cars without lights on in broad daylight,so how long will it be before they fail to see cars with Drl's on? . I have a plan,fit all vehicles with red luminous side stripes,blue flashing lights on the roof and behind the front grill,and sirens,job done. I am of the opinion that it is the latest must have,use your mirrors,thats what they are there for,and if you cannot see a car in broad daylight,.......Go to an OPTICIANS!!,(Not shouting,making it visible to Mr Mcgoo,if he reads it,lol)
Gearjammer


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## Mark993 (Jul 1, 2007)

Jented said:


> Hi.
> People have obviously grown used to ignoring cars without lights on in broad daylight,so how long will it be before they fail to see cars with Drl's on? . I have a plan,fit all vehicles with red luminous side stripes,blue flashing lights on the roof and behind the front grill,and sirens,job done. I am of the opinion that it is the latest must have,use your mirrors,thats what they are there for,and if you cannot see a car in broad daylight,.......Go to an OPTICIANS!!,(Not shouting,making it visible to Mr Mcgoo,if he reads it,lol)
> Gearjammer


100% agree - but what you are really asking for is much better driving skills by all those who don't see vehicles without lights. But you won't get that without compulsion (eg retest required if you get X points on your license).

I'm seeing a growing need for blue flashing lights on my vehicles just to grab the attention of all the people driving around me who are paying more attention to their latest text message than the direction of their car. :?


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