# roadfund licence when abroad



## bar

Every so often we read about folks cancelling their road tax just before they board the ferry.
Does anyone know what the legalaty of this is? I always thought your insurance was invalid if you were not licenced to be on the road? Could the european country you were visiting make you register your vehicle in their country as you had not paid any EEC road tax.
Any police or Dvla staff who are members might be able to advise please.

Bar


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## Rapide561

*Tax disc*

Hi

I have never heard of anyone cancelling/claiming a refund on their tax disc due to the fact they are going overseas.

Personally, whilst I would like to save a few bob, I am sure there must be a "legal" side to this.

Russell

PS - I shall ask my insurance company for their view tomorrow if I remember.


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## bar

*road fund licence refund*

Thanks Russel, I should have suggested that if any police officer knows the answer he/she could PM me and I will not pass on their identity just the answer.
I have read posts on MHF where folks have said that they always do it. Also you see vans in Spain/Portugal where they don't have tax discs.


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## Don_Madge

bar said:


> Every so often we read about folks cancelling their road tax just before they board the ferry.
> Does anyone know what the legalaty of this is? I always thought your insurance was invalid if you were not licenced to be on the road? Could the european country you were visiting make you register your vehicle in their country as you had not paid any EEC road tax.
> Any police or Dvla staff who are members might be able to advise please.
> 
> Bar


Hi Bar,

Your vehicle must be taxed at all times if it's on the road here or abroad.

It was common practise 20 years ago to cash in your road tax before going abroad.

Don


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## autostratus

A couple of points.

You surely can only receive a maximum of 11 months roadtax refund if you already have it taxed. Therefore is it worth it.
You will presumably have to travel to the point of departure from the UK without tax (unless posted at the port/?)
I thought you had to SORN the vehicle if it wasn't taxed and got fined if you didn't do so.


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## bar

*roadtax refund*

Thanks Don & Autostratus. I was hoping to hear from some of the folks who have written in before saying that they posted their tax back at the port. 
I REALLY ASKED THIS QUESTION TO GET A DEFINITIVE ANSWER WHICH MIGHT SAVE SOME OTHERS MAKING THEIR INSURANCE INVALID.

On the subject of Sorn I am sure some people will have unused motorhomes in storage in EEC and would give those addresses for Sorn purposes? I wouldn't risk having our van on the road for even the shortest journey as every police car can scan your numberplate and tell if you are taxed and insured instantly.


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## MrJinks

*Road Fund licence when abroad*

Under current laws a vehicle must be taxed (RFL) at all times unless classed as SORN by the owner.
If the vehicle is not taxed (or MOT) the insurance policy will not be valid if the vehicle is used on road.
This covers use in Europe just the same as UK.
Admittedly absent tax disc has to be spotted as missing however, in the event of a large claim, an efficient insurance company would only have to check with DVLA and they could save themselves a lot of money in not having to pay out.
So if you cash in the tax you may as well not bother with insurance either.

That is why most expats in Spain who still use their UK registered vehicles there return annually to obtain tax & MOT.

Garry


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## 104705

The law on free movement of vehicles throughout the EU is that it has to comply with all requirements of the home/registered country with regard to documentation. Additionally, the documents have to be accepted throughout the EU (hence Green Cards now no longer required, but advisable to carry if you can get one). Road tax used to be a scam by lorry drivers, where they would cash in the hgv one and re-tax as PLG. The difference in those days was £3000 per annum. Several big operators where heavily dealt with for the fraud.


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## bar

Hi Gary,
That makes sense.
I would be surprised if the expats can get legitimate insurance from uk insurers to use their vehicles in Spain on a permanent basis. ?

Barry


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## MrJinks

Hi Barry

Your right. In fact it is against Spanish law not to re-register your vehicle after a few months (I think 6) if you reside there. They have occasional blitzs on it.
However it is amazing how many vehicles there still have UK plates. Having upto date UK Tax & MOT often convinces the Guardia that you are on holiday!!
But a risky business if you had to make a serious insurance claim while there.

Garry


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## C7KEN

There is so much info on here about UK reg cars etc in Spain that I thought I may as well put the record straight.
If you have Spanish residency and live here permanently then you are crazy to be driving a UK reg vehicle.If for no other reason than the cost of road tax eg Ford Focus 43 euros per annum. They cost less to buy as well
If you have a holiday home here but are still a UK resident (do not have a Spanish residentia card)and can keep your vehicle of the public roads for at least 6 out of 12 months then you can keep it UK reg but it is important to keep it legal. The garda have a habit of stopping anyone when least expected and if you get on the wrong side of them beware. I know of a car at the moment that is going to be towed away and destroyed. If you have an accident and are not legal they will make life very hard
It is also necessary to carry passport, driving licence, insurance document however take the original plus the copies to the police and they will stamp and sign the copies to verify that they will be accepted instead of originals.
It is easy to keep legal as tax is via internet, insurance via post and MOT via dodgy Dave not that I am advocating using the unformentioned gentleman  There is a parking place within 30mins of Alicante airport with airport transfers available for 200 euros per year very secure and with many UK reg motors parked there doing exactly as I have said above.
I have just returned from Mojacar and spoke to someone who imported a Hymer from Germany it cost him 3500 euros in fees so Spanish reg MH's are generally better bought in Spain although they have just slapped an extra purchase tax on new ones starting Sept.


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## bar

There are a lot of eastern european motors now here and Ireland after the latest influx of workers. I was told by our local police that they don't even have contact with the Irish police to check on whether Irish registered vehicles are legal never mind Romanian Polish etc
It may be time for a Europe wide tax/insurance plate. They reckon we have 6million uninsured drivers in uk.


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## MrJinks

Maybe we should start to make sure that our policies cover us if in event of having an accident with uninsured vehicles. 
I do not think it is standard with many companies now


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## bar

I don't think you can Gary. One of our neighbours had a car parked on the road, hit by a driver whom the police prosecuted and was convicted. Our neighbour's insurers said they were unable to track him down so he lost his no claims discount. Though they did fix his car. They repaired his car because the other guy was insured.
I think if you get hit by an uninsured driver you might have to claim under criminal injuries compensation fund. But I don't really know and I suppose we should start a new thread. But not tonight and maybe you might to lead off with this subject tomorrow or when it suits?.

Interesting subject.

Barry


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## 104705

bar said:


> I don't think you can Gary. One of our neighbours had a car parked on the road, hit by a driver whom the police prosecuted and was convicted. Our neighbour's insurers said they were unable to track him down so he lost his no claims discount. Though they did fix his car. They repaired his car because the other guy was insured.
> I think if you get hit by an uninsured driver you might have to claim under criminal injuries compensation fund. But I don't really know and I suppose we should start a new thread. But not tonight and maybe you might to lead off with this subject tomorrow or when it suits?.
> 
> Interesting subject.
> 
> Barry


If you receive injuries from an uninsured driver, then you claim through the Insurance Bureau. Uninsured damage is claim via compensation at Magistrates, or a County Court claim. But most of the uninsured scrotes wouldn't have the money anyway. I was awarded £500 at Magistrates for injuries in 1982, and I'm still waiting to receive it.


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## billym

Our motorhome insurance clearly states that if the vehicle is not taxed then the cover reverts to minimum liability cover.

It does not mention MOT.

This applies wherever the insurance is valid.


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## 98483

'General Information
If your vehicle is temporarily taken out of the country but
remains registered in GB, you must ensure that it is licensed
for the duration of your stay abroad.'

cut and paste off V526

didn't stop me using the scooter abroad for 16 weeks untaxed tho'.

however, as previously mentioned, i'm sure any insurance company would use it as a wriggle out clause, along with wearing Y fronts on a weekday or being left handed.


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## asprn

pam2002 said:


> didn't stop me using the scooter abroad for 16 weeks untaxed tho'.


There's doing the right thing, and there's getting caught. You pays yer money (or in your case, takes yer refund) & takes yer choice.

Dougie.


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## bognormike

MrJinks said:


> Hi Barry
> 
> Your right. In fact it is against Spanish law not to re-register your vehicle after a few months (I think 6) if you reside there. They have occasional blitzs on it.
> However it is amazing how many vehicles there still have UK plates. Having upto date UK Tax & MOT often convinces the Guardia that you are on holiday!!
> But a risky business if you had to make a serious insurance claim while there.
> 
> Garry


I think it's a pan-european law; you can use your vehicle up to 6 months abroad, and then it has to be licensed in the country of residence. There was a report on local BBC news earlier this year about eastern europeans working in the area who did not licence their vehicles in Uk after 6 months' residence; the police / DVLA had a purge. I suppose unless somebdoy has a check on these things, nobody's going to bother too much until an accident (as noted above!). 
But how can any officials check how long a vehicle has been in a country? In the Uk we have all sorts of cameras at ferry ports & tickets showing vehicle number,and most foreign vehicles are left hand drive, but with Schengen countries there's no border controls at all. It becomes voluntary for the unscrupulous..... :x


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## 98483

asprn said:


> (or in your case, takes yer refund) & takes yer choice.
> 
> Dougie.


what, and lose the VAT.

scoot was bought SORN'd the day before we left, insurance was organised and forwarded on with the V5 whilst we were away. difficult to tax in Poland.

but i honestly thought like many here that if you're not in the uk, you don't need it!


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## billym

Bognormike.

In the event of a serious incident it is not for the authorities to prove how long the vehicle has been in any particular country, the burden of proof is on the vehicle owner.


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## bar

bognormike said:


> MrJinks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Barry
> 
> Your right. In fact it is against Spanish law not to re-register your vehicle after a few months (I think 6) if you reside there. They have occasional blitzs on it.
> However it is amazing how many vehicles there still have UK plates. Having upto date UK Tax & MOT often convinces the Guardia that you are on holiday!!
> But a risky business if you had to make a serious insurance claim while there.
> 
> Garry
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a pan-european law; you can use your vehicle up to 6 months abroad, and then it has to be licensed in the country of residence. There was a report on local BBC news earlier this year about eastern europeans working in the area who did not licence their vehicles in Uk after 6 months' residence; the police / DVLA had a purge. I suppose unless somebdoy has a check on these things, nobody's going to bother too much until an accident (as noted above!).
> But how can any officials check how long a vehicle has been in a country? In the Uk we have all sorts of cameras at ferry ports & tickets showing vehicle number,and most foreign vehicles are left hand drive, but with Schengen countries there's no border controls at all. It becomes voluntary for the unscrupulous..... :x
Click to expand...

Mike
Most Insurance certificates now seem to show all the countries in which the vehicle is insured to be driven.
I wonder if our police check anything other than Insurance, how would they check road tax for Poland? It is hard to see how non valid road tax can invalidate insurance. Would the house insurance not cover you if you were in arrears with your community charge? It would be good to have a legal opinion. 
Bar


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## MrJinks

Hi Barry
As with most things most people will have different views and I cant give a definative legal answer to this question of being insured if not taxed.

However, in my previous life as a police officer I understood that if you are driving a vehicle that is not taxed or MOT'd (except in certain circumstances)you are driving that vehicle illegally.
At that time most insurances always had a disclaimer that you would not be covered if you were driving your vehicle illegally. 

I have no doubt that all insurances are different and some may have specific clauses in them regarding this as quoted in previous comments.

But back to the original question it definately makes no difference whether in UK or EU.

Incidentally my insurance (car not motorhome) makes no mention of vehicle being taxed but does state what I have said above about driving illegally and also that the vehicle must have a valid MOT or not covered either.

regards

Garry


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## bar

MrJinks said:


> Hi Barry
> As with most things most people will have different views and I cant give a definative legal answer to this question of being insured if not taxed.
> 
> However, in my previous life as a police officer I understood that if you are driving a vehicle that is not taxed or MOT'd (except in certain circumstances)you are driving that vehicle illegally.
> At that time most insurances always had a disclaimer that you would not be covered if you were driving your vehicle illegally.
> 
> I have no doubt that all insurances are different and some may have specific clauses in them regarding this as quoted in previous comments.
> 
> But back to the original question it definately makes no difference whether in UK or EU.
> 
> Incidentally my insurance (car not motorhome) makes no mention of vehicle being taxed but does state what I have said above about driving illegally and also that the vehicle must have a valid MOT or not covered either.
> 
> regards
> 
> Garry


Thanks Garry. I wouldn't take the risk of being uninsured for £85 saved on 6 months tax. You would not be able to give a permanent SORN address which is probably another offence.
However if my car tax expired overnight and someone wrote it off I would be pretty agrieved if I was told there would be no compensation. I think that not paying exise duty ( car tax) is probably a civil matter and that if the car was legal in every other respect it would not seem right. Neither of my motor policies mentions it and I wonder if there is a law which states that a car is not legal if untaxed?
Your point is very valid it depends on each individuals contract with their insurer. But I did see a BBC article which said that the police were clamping down on untaxed cars as they were more likely to be uninsured. That implies that untaxed cars are not uninsured automatically otherwise would it not be the case that prosecution for being untaxed would also cause a fine for being uninsured? 
Bar


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## hogan

The garda have a habit of stopping anyone when least expected and if you get on the wrong side of them beware. I know of a car at the moment that is going to be towed away and destroyed. If you have an accident and are not legal they will make life very hard
It is also necessary to carry passport, driving licence, insurance document however take the original plus the copies to the police and they will stamp and sign the copies to verify that they will be accepted instead of originals.

Just to add to C7KEN post you also have to carry a spare set of glasses if you need them for driving,This applies to UK reg vehicles also.


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