# SOG to toilet



## Nora+Neil (May 1, 2005)

Can anyone help.

Is it worth fitting a SOG to the toilet.

Advantage or disadvantage please.

Do you still have to use chemical. 

Thank you.


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## 89402 (May 22, 2005)

*Have Sog fitted*

Hi Nora and Neil

Well my wife was very worried about any smells etc from the toilet so as a safety measure I purchased a sog kit and got perthshire caravans to fit it for me. I spoke to Brian who fitted it and he told me it is very easy to fit and absolutely everything that you need is supplied in the kit. I have found there to be no smells in the small bathroom but as to using it without chemical, all the reports say you can but I still use aqua blue with mine. (haven't tried it without) I got mine from Symonspeed Ltd 01803214620 cost £87.50 and there are 2 types for different thedford toilets. If your ever close by call and have a look at mine. The outside cover is very tidy and will not look atall out of place.

Glen


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## scottie (May 11, 2005)

*sog toilet*

hi
i fitted a sog on to our hymer in may this year it works fine no smell inside,either with or without chemicals ,but the main difference for me is when emptying it the smell is not to bad, but it don't look very pretty, if you know what i mean the colour blue or green masks both any smell and sight.
the main advantage without chemicals you can empty it in a normal loo you don't need to find a chemical disposal point..
scottie.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Nora and Neil,

Yep, IMHO definitely worth having and NO you don't need chemicals.
I had one on my previous Hymer B644 and am hoping to get one fitted to this one soon.

BillD


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

The whole point is to use them without chemicals. The blue ones have embalming fluid in 'em!


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

SOG is a bit expensive but as you no longer need to use chemicals it will pay for itself. Well worth fitting, I got mine from VanGear (I think). If your access door hinges on the right side, take care with the instructions as they are written for left hand. I had to fit the SOG as my washroom has not got any ventilation at all, it is so effective that we do not get any smells inside.


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Embalming? Like when "interred"... :wink:


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Sog, the greatest invention since , err, the cassette toilet and easy to fit yourself, even I managed it, the only tricky bit is making sure you stick the fan switch in the right place and having the 'nerve' to drill a big hole in the side of the hatch.

Another 'plus' with a sog, you can empty your toilet as often as you like with no worries about using too much expensive blue stuff.

pete.


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## 95405 (Jun 10, 2005)

From a vehicle point of view, very effective, unfortunately some motorhomes have the cassette door on the same side as the awning . . .


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## BrianR (May 1, 2005)

I got one from Symonspeed many years ago and fitted it myself without any problem. There was a problem with the fan motor on an early batch, but Symonspeed replaced this FOC without quible and it has been fine since - it must have been in use for 5 years now, 6months of each year, without problem. I have never used chemicals since fitting it. The only downside is that in very hot weather you notice the smell if you have to empty the cassette indoors. It is definitely worth having. One tip, to minimise smells inside when you use it, is to position the microswitch, which switches on the fan when the blade valve is opened, so that it operates as soon as the blade valve begins to move. Then you only need to open the blade valve a small amount when you go for a wee.

Brian


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi

It always makes me wonder when people say you can empty into a *normal toilet, * where do they think the chemical disposal points goes?


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## 95405 (Jun 10, 2005)

George says: ". . . . where do they think the chemical disposal points goes?"

Often to the same destination ultimately. I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that a large site could have a natural soil disposal, reed bed or something, big septic tank or private sewage station, which necessitates a single mains sewer connection for the chemical disposal. And where do I think the mains drainage goes ? Yes, but there's the dilution effect.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Lord

Which maker as put the cassette door on Awning side of vehicle? I have seen dangerous wiring, stupidly thin wiring, stupidly sited exhaust vents, idiotic waste water dump pipe (size and position), but never yet a cassette door on awning side.


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## 95405 (Jun 10, 2005)

George,

My Rapido which is a fixed rear bed model has the shower room on the awning side so the cassette door is under the awning. I suppose it could have been on the back. The layout doesn't work with the bed on the awning side and the bathroom opposite because of the short vehicle length (which is what we wanted).

If I was fitting the SOG unit again I would buy some extra hose and vent it out the storage door, under the rear bed, at the 'service' side of the van. It probably would be possible, with a bit of work.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Lord

Too strange fir words, I suppose if its cassete only not insurmountable, but not very clever if you want SOG.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi, 

There are quite a lot of Continental 'vans that have their cassette door on the nearside (of LHD vehicles) this is the same side as the entrance door. It is also the same side as the awnings are fitted. It makes sense in Europe.

Of course the SOG is a relatively recent invention, about 1996/7 I believe.

It would not make a lot of sense to move evrything else in case you want to fit a SOG.

BillD


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## 89202 (May 16, 2005)

Hi,

wait after the Düsseldorf mh. show, before buy a SOG system.

The new serial has a another cover on the K7 door, it is now easyer to change the coal-filter...( every year...)

for info,

duc


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Duc,

Can you tell me when Dusseldorf show is, please? Is the news of the new model available on Internet, etc?

I want to get a SOG fitted in next 2 weeks.

BillD


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## 89202 (May 16, 2005)

Hi,

the Düsseldorf show has beginning yesterday till next sunday, next month is the mh. show in Le Bourget in France...


for info,

duc


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Hi All
I fitted one of these
http://www.thetford-europe.com/the/thomecon.nsf/web/outside_vent_en

About 20 quid from a local caravan dealer easy to fit and now we have no chemical smells in the bathroom. Worth every penny


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Take

that system only removes the smells, a SOG system removes the need for chemicals too and its the ecological reason for a sog system.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Takeaflight, 

Could you give me run through on what it actually does please, the Thetford site is a bit sparse on details. 

BillD


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

hi Takeaflilght

It seems that the smells are taken to the outside without any filtration, as I believe the SOG system has. Surely the outside must smell instead of the inside:?:


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

BarryandSue said:


> Embalming? Like when "interred"... :wink:


Exactly that!

I went to Ireland a cuople of years ago, two sites we went on there had their own "sewage" plant. A stream (I presume man made" running into a Reed pond where waste both black and grey was emptied, then into several pools via a waterfall / aeration system and then disappeared into the ground, again presuming this was the mains drain. What did come out was totally clear, but I still wouldn't want to drink it! Very little smell during the entire process.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi,

I am familiar with the SOG system and have used it in a previous 'van, in fact installed it myself.

All the SOG does is extract the 'air' from the cassette by a small fan when the slide opens. It filters that 'air' before discharging it to the atmosphere. Nothing magic. If you happen to be sitting in a deckchair near the extract when someone uses the toilet you are faintly aware that it is being used!

My B694 has the door adjacent to the cassette door so I am looking for a way of piping the discharged air further away.

Maybe this Thetford device will be easier to adapt? It is certainly a lot cheaper.

BillD


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Maybe some cooker hood charcoal filters could somehow be incorporated into the Thetford fan, Bill? As you say, the Thetford's a lot cheaper, but also it's actually made for the Thetford units.



> I am looking for a way of piping the discharged air further away.


I've always considered a chimney roof-outlet to be preferable to the low-down side outlet of the SOG unit - despite its charcoal filters! A side-vent could be a bit anti-social when closely-packed onto an aire, eh? "Ooh, but they don't smell at all...!" Yeah, right! Only as long as the filters are always kept exchanged.


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

All the Thetford does is replace the screw in cap vent on top of the cassette with another that a pipe is take off to a vent out on the outside of the van. I fitted ours to the door. Easy job.
Basically from what I could see the SOG was the same but it as a small fan.
The vent is inside the safari room when we erect it but upto now we have not had any unpleasant smells.

I stopped using fluid chemicals and now use Kem Direct cystals.
www.trail-a-amate.com.

I understand from previous posts that many people with the SOG still use chemicals !!!

For anyone wishing to vent further afield so to speak no problems just extent the pipe to where ever.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Take

I think one person as said they do still use chemicals and that they only fitted sog to remove vehicle smells. 

I cant see the point of the thetford sys you mention, if there was a gust of wind outside surely it would blow the smells into the van (if the toilet was in process of being flushed) at all other times there would be no great moverment of air because its dead end system ie no way for a throughflow to occur unless the toilet is in flush mode and then it would appear to be a two way street.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Takeaflight,

Thanks for that. By the way I could not get your link to work??

The extract fan in the SOG, apparently, causes additional airflow across the contents and increases bacteriological action. This is what is supposed to make chemicals unneccesary.

Barry,

I am sure your suggestion would do the filtering

All I have to find now is a suitable extract fan, some piping and where to run it ? I am inclined, if possible, to take it down below the floor. Any thoughts would be welcome.

BillD


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## 95810 (Jul 21, 2005)

they look so simple, surely its possible to make one?


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## 89184 (May 16, 2005)

The blue loo fluid is a mixture of methanol and formaldehyde (the embalming fluid) with some "perfume" to cover up the smell. I used to work in a hospital lab and gallons of formaldehyde went down the drain and probably still does. Advantage of using them is that they will kill human viruses that we all excrete. 

Point is that both are reactive and I would think by the time they have been mixed with the brown stuff for a while that there isn't much left to destroy the environment. I wonder how much the eco argument is good old PC.

Must admit though that I have never smelt anything coming from SOG outlets even when close on an Aire. Just heard the extractor motor noise once in a while.

Keith


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Try this link

http://www.trail-a-mate.com/kem.htm

Our problem was chemical smells in the bathroom since fitting the vent no problems whether using the blue liquid or the crystals.

We have never smelt anything outside the van either.


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## DubPaul (May 10, 2005)

I have just purchased a SOG from vangear.co.uk and will let people know how I get on with installing and using it.


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Seems to me that everyone who has a SOG system fitted ir is thinking of doing so want the outside vent as far away from them as possible (roof, floor, away from door)- this doesn't add up if there is no smell emitted.


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Jeanann,

If you look at my earlier post you will see that I said 'if you are sitting close to the vent you are faintly aware that the toilet is being used'.

This is faintly and is probably more psychological than real as you can hear the fan running. The fact that you can see the outlet probably adds to this.

I used the SOG for some time, until I sold the 'van, with no chemicals and would not hesitate in fitting another (or similar).

BillD


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## Nora+Neil (May 1, 2005)

Thanks to everyone who replyed.

Something to fit over the winter. 

Got to pick up M/H first.

Great site for info. Where else would you get it.

Thanks


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Nora+Neil said:


> Is it worth fitting a SOG to the toilet.
> Advantage or disadvantage please.


A bit one sided this thread, IMHO

1. I think SOG is unnecessary and although it does stop the smells inside your van it just passes them directly out to impinge on the nostrils of your neighbour....."Oh yes it does" :lol:

2. Expensive....work out how long it will take you to pay for it in saved chemical costs....many folk will have sold the van and moved on before they break even.

4. If you don't like blue chemicals use something else, there are lots of eco friendly products out there....In fact an Un Sogged toilet does not need chemicals if you empty it often.....it just depends on whether you think that poo smells are unaceptable while you are in there.....if you have it, turn on the blown air (without heat) to power ventilate the toilet out throught the roof light (if you have one) while in use.

5. Put your cassette contents down a toilet if you wish to....public loos are attached to the sewers in most places and there is nothing in any blue or green chemical supplied by Thetford or Elsan that would prohibit this action :roll:

6. Six is not a reason not to buy, it is just an admission that I have looked at them and cannot see the point, but it does not mean that for the many users who have them fitted that they wasted their money....if it pleases them to have SOG , so be it....it takes all sorts :wink: I just hope that they are not sited 20 feet away from me and upwind when i am sat outside eating my breakfast :lol:

Mike


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Mike,

Welcome back, I hope you had a good trip.

I would not try to justify the SOG on financial return nor even particularly on eco friendly basis, although I like using as few chemicals as possible.

I certainly appreciate the lack of smells in the 'van either when using the toilet (or others) or sometimes when driving with a toilet that is nearing emptying time. As I wild/free camp mostly it is not always possible to empty daily.

Yes, I think it is a bit expensive for what it is and that is why I am particularly interested in the earlier link about the Thetford idea - if that could be motorised it sounds good. But then probably if we always considered cost we wouldn't have half the gizmos we have and probably wouldn't have a MH.

Finally I do assure you that if you were 20 feet away eating your cornies you wouldn't smell anything.

BillD


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## JustRadio (May 21, 2005)

To me the main advantage would be not to have to smell that sickening "blue" chemical smell, it really turns me up, or the only slightly less offensive smell of poo. If it removes both, well that's just fine. No need to question it further.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi BillD and Neverremberit
It is a wonder that as a "gadget person" myself I do not have a SOG fitted but it is really a matter of choice , the SOG system does help keep the toilet space free of smells when "in use" (even if you still use the blue stuff as well) so if you are upset by smell then thats one of the best reasons to invest in it.....but if you do have a blown air system do try my method too...it works....close all vents from the blown air except the toilet vent and use blown air to +ve pressurise the toilet area.

The other side effect of having a SOG unit fitted is because it has a quite large, always open to the outside, air vent pipe, it may stop those occasional whiffs that you can get if travelling with a half full cassette....but it has, I have heard increased the smells on one vehicle ...it seems to just depend on the airflow of the particular vehicle.

If you do not wish to spend on a SOG and really do not like chemicals then don't use anything at all, just add a bit of water to the cassette before you start to use it and empty it daily after you have all "performed", there will be smells but the contents of the cassette will not in that short time become some "horror". ( A nose clip in the loo may be a good idea) .

Even if you use a SOG ,the blue, green or whatever colour chemical they will probably never manage to kill off any dangerous pathogens present in the contents of the cassette. If you use the cassette only for peeing ( as I am assured some do) then other than emptying as often as you can you really do not need to worry about adding anything.....pee is normally sterile and can be stored for quite a time. Pee by the way has a nasty way of lining your cassette with limescale which if not removed will harbour really bad smells....de-scale your cassette it will cut down on the nasty smells.

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

A SOG is a convenience, and, yes, not a cheap one. It is a soft, subjective, personal choice. People who have them, defend them, but human beings defend the wisdom of their purchases anyway, so that is often little recommendation. 

Now, if someone has lived both with and without a SOG, but sold the van, if they order a new van WITH a SOG, THAT is a recommendation 

If cost is an issue, but time less so, go for a DIY solution; I cannot believe it would cost more than a few pounds. Microswitch, fan, pipe, wire, carbon filter/ wadding, fittings.

Dave


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi again

Just thought about a question I would like to ask the SOG users. How do you get on travelling with an "in use" cassette? Do the contents get up the vent pipe? Do you have to make sure that the cassette is not too full before setting off?

mike


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Dave,

I agree with trying to do a DIY job and the main thing I am having difficulty locating is a suitable motorised fan/blower.

Mike,

Never had a problem with either.

Billd


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## 95405 (Jun 10, 2005)

Well, I have a SOG kit fitted, and if I could only ever buy one accessory for my motorhome, that would be it, even though they're priced at nearly £90 for a £15 box of bits.

Spykal/Mike, the vent outlet is right on the top of the cassette so you can't really overfill it to the point that it flows out, the level in the bowl would have to be be up there as well. I did, on one occasion only, notice some drops of liquid in the vent pipe when I disconnected it so possibly excessive filling or bumpy travel could be a minor problem.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Now there's a mystery. I've travelled with a full SOG-fitted cassette at least a couple of times, but have never noticed anything other than the smallest of drips as the pipe is subsequently pulled off. Yet the pipe lays naturally in a "U"-bend which would collect any overflow forced out of the top of the cassette and provide a resistance to air being expelled. 

Mental note to be more scientific in my observations next time it's full and in "motion", ha ha.

Dave


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

some facts and opinions about toilet chemicals and the SOG from a satisfied SOG user who has a lot of experience also with conventional chemical toilets:

1. Toilet chemicals *can kill* the flora of a biological sewage treatment plant! Usually this is not a problem if some toilet tank fillings are added to the stream of sewage from a major city, but for remote sites with small treatment plants there may be an issue. The site owner who wants to install a chemical toilet disposal point then gets strict rules imposed upon by the authorities. 
I know of a site in a very rural location in East Germany: Here the waste from the chemical loos had to be collected in a separate tank which was regularily pumped out and the contents carried away by lorry to a large sewage plant. Of course this was not cheap, so the site owner imposed a fee and announced that it was not allowed to dump chemical toilet wastes in the toilets. Now some clever motorhomers wanted to save the money and emptied their tanks into the normal toilets during the night... Result as expected, the sewage plant broke down and the site owner had to pay a heavy fine. This happened a second time and now the site is closed. 

2. With a SOG here is no problem with smells outside of the van _if the activated carbon filter is in good state!_ The recommendation of the manufacturer ("change it once a year") may be valid for infrequent useage, however in my case (3 people using almost only the van toilet while on tour) I have now found that the filter has to be changed after about 5-6 weeks of van useage. Taking into account all the weekend trips that means for me to change the filter twice a year. 
You _can smell_ it when the filter degrades.

3. For people who are really afraid of smells outside there is now a SOG model with a roof vent.

4. When the cassette is very full (warning light on), then there may be the occasional droplet at the pipe. However if the unit is properly fitted this should not make it's way to the fan.

5. One of the reasons for the relatively high price of a SOG is that the fan is absolutely water-, pee- and even poo-proof. So even if "something" makes it's way to the fan no harm will be done.

6. I just happen to hate the smell of the toilet chemicals. In any camping store I could find the toilet chemical rack blindfolded, because those bottles smell already when coming out of the factory. No problems with SOG anymore. 

7. The economic aspects: Yes, the SOG is not cheap. However you save some money afterwards by:
- not buying chemicals anymore
- being able to use standard toilet paper
- not wasting any chemicals anymore when emptying a partially filled cassette.
I have calculated this for me and found that break-even would be about two years after fitting SOG.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

For those still puzzling over the various SOG options, you may care to see this Australian site that lays it all out very well:-
http://tinyurl.com/75w2c

BillD - it even shows a roof vent!


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Boff and Barry,

Thanks for that useful info.

Boff, do you know if it is possible to buy that fan motor anywhere ?

BillD


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

Hi Bill,

Have you thought about utilising a computer cooling fan. There are any number of sizes and designs. Try looking here for starters - http://www.casetech.co.uk/ - many of these computer gamers even use ducting to work with their fans.

EBuyer at www.ebuyer.com are also worth a look.

I use a simple computer case fan to cool my fridge and I would have thought at about £2.99 they are powerful enough to do the job.

Nobby


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> they look so simple, surely its possible to make one?


EOR, a member on here, has a diy version on his website.....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/monkley/motorhome/start.htm

click on DIY SOG

pete.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi George,
Several modern caravans have the cassette door on the awning side. Great if you need to empty the toilet whilst entertaining guests in the awning. LOL.
Jock & Rita.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Only us again,
Please disregard our last reply, we didn't note that there was 4 pages to go through first. Sorry  
Our SOG toilet on our E690 was an absolute disgrace. When we got the vehichle home we started to wash and clean and personalise, as you do.
I, (apparently it's a man's job), removed the cassette to flush it out and freshen it up a bit only to find it contained a thick layer of disgusting limescale which appeared to line the whole of the interior. Pressure washing and jet blasting did nothing to remove the layer. I had to soak it in a solution of industrial descaler for 24 hours, and even then it hadn't all dissolved. If this is what happens when you don't use chemical, then chemical it shall be. How the hell anyone could allow it to get into that state is beyond our imagination. (PREVIOUS OWNERS TAKE NOTE).
TTFN, Jock & Rita.


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