# Brownhills No Longer Selling Hymer



## duxdeluxe

Please see the link below

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...hills-no-longer-selling-Hymer/_ch1_nw2066_pg1


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## bognormike

blimey things must be bad for them - that was their flagship franchise, and now nothing. I thought that with the new set up they were going to keep the one base at Newark with Hymer. No matter how they talk about "concentrating on it's remaining franchises" this must be a bitter blow. 8O


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## GEMMY

Looks like I'll be keeping this Hymer some time. Never going to get as good a deal as I've had previously.  :wink: 

tony


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## 113016

there are some good prices here with Hymers coming in through the back door.

http://www.edgehillmotorhomes.co.uk/

http://www.edgehillmotorhomes.co.uk/page/motorhomes


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## duxdeluxe

Mostly left hookers, though, which suits a lot of people. Not UK spec, I would have thought


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## GEMMY

2nd hand.

tony


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## 113016

We have been there and looked and they have both new /used and both right and left hand drive. Continental spec with no ovens. We use a double skillet!
We got our Exsis from Fullers which is RHD reg late 2011 in Germany by Hymer, re-registered in the UK Jan 2012 and a 2012 Hymer build plate. Deliver miles only (135miles)
It was imported by Edgehill.
We got a great deal as we were told Brownhills could not afford take them. 
No idea if that was true, but it seems to make sense.


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## cheshiregordon

Brownhills lost much of their expertise in Hymers when they closed the Preston branch - apart from Hambiltons not sure which is the nearest Hymer agent to me?


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## presto

We bought our Hymer in Southern Ireland (Donagheys Letterkenny)got a great deal two years ago when the Euro was much stronger against Stirling.Not an. Expert on these things but might be worth looking into.Bought a new winnebago brave of Brownhills 18 years ago was well treated but think things are not the same now.


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## Glandwr

If the pound keeps rising we could be back to the days when we could buy direct from Germany cheaper. 

Dick


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## geraldandannie

bognormike said:


> No matter how they talk about "concentrating on it's remaining franchises"


Is this like an MP "spending more time with their family"?

Without Hymer, I fear the demise of BH - there are just so many dealers around, chasing a shrinking market.

Gerald


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## bognormike

geraldandannie said:


> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how they talk about "concentrating on it's remaining franchises"
> 
> 
> 
> Is this like an MP "spending more time with their family"?
> 
> Without Hymer, I fear the demise of BH - there are just so many dealers around, chasing a shrinking market.
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

or maybe more dealers who are well funded so they can carry a decent number of units in stock - as Grath said downhills can't afford to take them :roll: As a Hymer owner (from tomorrow :lol: ) I would want to be able to acccess a decent service and spares network, especially as we are still waiting for the appointment of a dealer in southern England. 8)


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## mcpezza

Good move on Hymer Gmbs' part. They have finally seen the light. The independent network they have set up secures their future in the UK. For a prestige brand to rely on one (allegedly) financially insecure distributor that caters for all market segments does not make commercial sense.

Despite the gloom and doom portrayed by the media, premium brands are generally doing very well at present, business is hard work, but there is big money being spent with established reliable and customer focused retailers. In my experience, Brownhills does not fit this profile.

Mike


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## GEMMY

As a Hymer owner (from tomorrow )


Alright then, what is it. :lol: 

tony


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## 113016

bognormike said:


> geraldandannie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how they talk about "concentrating on it's remaining franchises"
> 
> 
> 
> Is this like an MP "spending more time with their family"?
> 
> Without Hymer, I fear the demise of BH - there are just so many dealers around, chasing a shrinking market.
> 
> Gerald
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or maybe more dealers who are well funded so they can carry a decent number of units in stock - as Grath said downhills can't afford to take them :roll: As a Hymer owner (from tomorrow :lol: ) I would want to be able to acccess a decent service and spares network, especially as we are still waiting for the appointment of a dealer in southern England. 8)
Click to expand...

The story that we were told from both Fullers and Edgehill, was that Hymer had the chassis waiting for B/Hills confirmation orders. Hymer, got fed up of waiting so they built 2012 bodies on the chassis that were supposed to be going to B/Hills a little earlier and they then sold them to Edgehill at a huge discount.
This discount has partly been passed on to the end customers.
At the end of the day, we can't complain as we got a good price and an even better part exchange price. Obviously the dealers have made a huge wedge, but we are very happy with the overall deal.
My personal opinion is that it won't be very good for B/Hills, probably the start of the end, or more like past the middle to the end!


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## bognormike

GEMMY said:


> As a Hymer owner (from tomorrow )
> 
> Alright then, what is it. :lol:
> 
> tony


details tomorrow :wink:


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## javea

GEMMY said:


> Looks like I'll be keeping this Hymer some time. Never going to get as good a deal as I've had previously.  :wink:
> 
> tony


Well they still have your previous one there Tony.


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## mr2

bognormike said:


> blimey things must be bad for them - that was their flagship franchise, and now nothing. I thought that with the new set up they were going to keep the one base at Newark with Hymer. No matter how they talk about "concentrating on it's remaining franchises" this must be a bitter blow. 8O


Called in at Newark to speak to their Repairs & Maintenance Dept regarding a fix for poor water pump pressure in my Autoquest180. I'd already had a quote elsewhere of £200 for replacement etc. 
I was told that no-one was available that morning to speak to me but someone would call me pm. Guess what? Yep- no call- they obviously do not want business.


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## duxdeluxe

Considering that the UK Hymer rep is an ex Brownhills senior manager, it certainly was a shock to me that they lost the franchise. It is a bit worrying, to say the least, but at least Hymer owners have a decent amount of choice (eventually) in dealerships which should be healthy for the business overall


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## GEMMY

Mike, you're a tease. 8) :lol: :wink: 

tony


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## bognormike

GEMMY said:


> Mike, you're a tease. 8) :lol: :wink:
> 
> tony


they all say that :lol:

and as mcpezza says, Hymer germany must have been worried for some time, they have a premium brand and basically they have been let down by a dealer who had an exclusive arrangement and could not give the brand the support they desire.


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## javea

duxdeluxe said:


> Considering that the UK Hymer rep is an ex Brownhills senior manager, it certainly was a shock to me that they lost the franchise. It is a bit worrying, to say the least, but at least Hymer owners have a decent amount of choice (eventually) in dealerships which should be healthy for the business overall


But wasn't he in charge of Hymer UK that they closed down? If this is correct it could be a case of 'Hell hath no fury.....etc'


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## duxdeluxe

I would imagine that at level, any decision made by a manager/director in conjunction with a major manufacturer would have been for sound business reasons alone after a detailed analysis of the situation and future prospects and nothing else.


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## GEMMY

Javea, indeed he was in charge of Preston, before being sacked (unknown reasons) so it is of no surprise that he was behind the knife.
He always reminded me of a car dealer on a bombed out site, Arfur Daley springs to mind. I do hope ALL the franchises have read the small print. :wink: 

tony


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## Bamboozled

I was surprised to see a long line of brand new Hymers at Knowpark in Livingston the other day. 8O


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## PaulKershaw

Strange that people still keep talking about buying from over seas, or "back door dealers" Why?
Why not support the new dealers and the british economy, after all the New independent Hymer network have stated they now have price parity with Europe. The exchange rate is better for the dealers because they are buying more Euros, so it would be just as easy to negotiate with UK dealers and get a better deal than foreigners. And unlike the back door dealers there are no warranty issues or illegal vehicles.


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## GEMMY

Welcome Paul, please keep us advised on how the dealer network is coming on. It would be good to have a Hymer Manager on this forum.

tony


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## bognormike

ditto to that!


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## GEMMY

Mike , WELL ????????????????? :lol: 

tony


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## Baron1

Yeah, come on Mike we're all dying to know!!!!


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## bognormike

hang on a bit, I'll post pics in separate thread...


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## javea

Tony,

I'm keeping quiet for once!!!!!!!!!!!        

Mike


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Tony, I'm always happy to keep everyone informed, I regularly send out press releases. It is Hymers goal to have the very best dealers to represent the brand going forward, we should soon have a good geographic spread.
Just need to correct a few miss representations.
Brownhills were not "sacked" it was a mutual decision.
I was also not sacked from Brownhills when they closed Preston, or "behind the knife" I resigned from Brownhills three years earlier.
Unsure were we have met, however you are entitled to call me any name you wish, however as both a passionate Hymer advocate and the ex MD of Hymer UK I built one of the UK's best dealers for customer service, and was regarded by Hymer as there best dealer in Europe, I was as sad as most to see its demise and the loss of many good people. 
Hymers are not cheaper in Germany any longer.
The new dealers have extremely good deals available on the current stock.
To all you valued Hymer owners, be patient, the new dealers will develop as fast as possible and take very good care of you, in return please give them your full support.
Best Regards


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## javea

PaulKershaw said:


> Strange that people still keep talking about buying from over seas, or "back door dealers" Why?
> Why not support the new dealers and the british economy, after all the New independent Hymer network have stated they now have price parity with Europe. The exchange rate is better for the dealers because they are buying more Euros, so it would be just as easy to negotiate with UK dealers and get a better deal than foreigners. And unlike the back door dealers there are no warranty issues or illegal vehicles.


Paul, First of all welcome to the forum. Secondly, I am afraid that things are not quite as you suggest in regard to prices as between the UK and Germany.

For example, Travelworld have a B674SL on their stock list reduced to £84k, it's a 2.3 manual. I can get a new 3.0 litre automatic from a Hymer dealer in Germany for under 75,000 Euros - no contest as to which to go for is there?


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## GEMMY

:lol: :lol: :lol: Paul, I've been told to say someone 'hacked' into my account.

I would have thought you would have been MD of N&B Uk, knowing your propensity for the latter.

My wife Jan says hello.

Now the cheeky bit, got any Merc Chassis Hymers (new) going cheap. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

tony


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Javea, please be assured that any UK dealer will match the price of any german dealer for a (like for like) vehicle.
Please bear in mind the German vehicle is LHD, and Fiat (Not Hymer) charge more for the RHD chassis. this is not the fault of the UK dealer, the German vehicle will not meet UK regulations and will not have flame retardant upholstery (illegal) that costs more.
The price you have quoted is considerably lower that the German price list, I assume you have negotiated a good deal here, have you tried to also negotiate with Travelworld?
Like I have said give the new dealers a chance, why support a foreign economy.
And remember the UK dealers do there utmost to ensure Hymers have a strong residual value, LHD grey imports will depreciate more, and be worth less in the future.
So if you can get the same deal it is best to buy in the UK.
Don't forget the VAT.


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Tony, I thought that must have been the case :roll: give Jan my regards, seriously Tony there are great deals to be had on the current built stock, you will never buy better than right now, most models are available, these deals will not be advertised so you must contact a dealer very quickly, they are selling fast.


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## 113016

Paul, how do dealers such as Edgeghill manage to bring new right hand drive vehicles in from Germany?
They say that they buy direct from Hymer?
I would imagine that now a UK dealer net work has been set up that Hymer will no longer supply to them!
OK, they have to first be pre registered in Germany and are then sold as used, but they are new vehicles at very good prices.


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## javea

Thanks for the response Paul. Interested to see that a UK Hymer dealer will match the price charged by the German one.

The price I quoted is the starting figure, including VAT, no negotiation commenced.

I preferLHD as most of my mileage is in Europe, can a vehicle of this 'hand' be supplied by UK dealers in 'legal' condition bearing in mind what you said about the upholstery?


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## GEMMY

Thanks Paul, a bit early at the mo. present van only 10 months old and a little early but give it another 12 months and I'll be seriously looking, hope the deals are as good then, and the dealers will be up and running properly.

tony

All the best at coping with this site, not for the faint hearted. :wink:


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Grath, I know from bitter experience from many up set customers and from checking serial number on vehicles for sale at shows that most of there vehicles are used but more concerning many were ex Hymer rent vehicles bought from a German Dealer with very low mileage and sold as "new", hence why they were cheaper. 
In the case of RHD, this has only ever happened once, RHD chassis were ordered for a dealer, they were not able to build for this dealer so Hymer had to build them anyway. They were sold to a German dealer who was supposed to sell them to customers, he actually sold them to a UK non approved back door dealer. Now Hymer have a new UK dealer network this will never happen again.
The Back door dealers will however keep doing what they do, selling illegal vehicles with unknown history, and then palming the customers off onto the official dealers when they have a problem.


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## eurajohn

Couple of things ref PaulKershaw: 
1 shouldn't he be registered as trade? 
2 You ask " why support a foreign economy" surely that is exactly what you are promoting, where are Hymer made? not in the UK!

Having said that I do wish the new venture good luck as many UK motorhomers consider it a good marque.


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## PaulKershaw

UK dealers can supply RHD or LHD vehicles unlike European dealers who only supply LHD.
A UK dealer can order a UK spec and UK legal vehicle on either drive side.
I accept that some people who travel in Europe prefer a LHD, and for this reason its fine provided you accept that it will depreciate more than a RHD (10% more is the industry norm) and it is also a fact that the UK has the highest value for used Hymers, therefore it makes sense were possible to buy a RHD from the UK and also sell it in the UK.
Only buy a LHD if it is your preferred choice, it is no longer the cheapest choice.


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## 113016

PaulKershaw said:


> Hi Grath, I know from bitter experience from many up set customers and from checking serial number on vehicles for sale at shows that most of there vehicles are used but more concerning many were ex Hymer rent vehicles bought from a German Dealer with very low mileage and sold as "new", hence why they were cheaper.
> In the case of RHD, this has only ever happened once, RHD chassis were ordered for a dealer, they were not able to build for this dealer so Hymer had to build them anyway. They were sold to a German dealer who was supposed to sell them to customers, he actually sold them to a UK non approved back door dealer. Now Hymer have a new UK dealer network this will never happen again.
> The Back door dealers will however keep doing what they do, selling illegal vehicles with unknown history, and then palming the customers off onto the official dealers when they have a problem.


Hi again Paul.
I don't know about all the Hymers they have but they are offering some RHD vehicles with just over 100 delivery miles.
These are not ex rental and are new, but were pre registered in Germany during late 2011
Then first reg in the UK by the dealer in Jan 2012
Only two months ago, before the new Hymer dealer network was announced, I purchased an Exsis as used but it is/was new with only 135 miles. 
Their story was that Brownhills could not afford to complete the deal, so Hymer sold them to Edgehill at a reduced price prior to the new dealer network.
Oh, I forgot, it has a 2012 Hymer build plate.


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Eurajohn, thanks for your well wishes, 
You have a very good point, please remember I'm not a dealer any more, that was three years ago.
I accept that Hymer is German, however the Hymer dealer network employs 1000's of people directly and indirectly, and contributes greatly to the economy.
Bear in mind that so called English brands consist of over 80% imported components.
I do however take your point.


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## Penquin

I do not own a Hymer but would like to add my best wishes to Paul for getting involved with MHF.

It is good to see a representative at a senior level involved who can answer questions and respond to queries. Sadly, we no longer have Swift on here so Hymer's involvement is excellent IMO and will, I hope show the advantages to other manufacturers, perhaps they may wish to emulate your involvement  .

I am sure there will be times when he says "why on earth do I bother  :roll: ", but am also sure that the reputation of Hymer will be considerably enhanced by their involvement. :wink: 

It is always good to see answers like those already offered, about price comparisons and use record for vehciles. The points about legality are of great interest to all and your comments about retained value will be appreciated by many who KNOW that their vehicle is excellent.

I hope that you enjoy your participation on this very active site, you are very welcome.   

Dave


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## PaulKershaw

Hi Grath, the Exsis are the vehicles I was refering to, however Hymer did not sell them to Edge hill, they were sold to a German dealer who then sold them to Edge Hill.
These are the only RHD that Hymer have sold to a German Dealer.


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## PaulKershaw

Thankyou Dave, time permitting I will pop back now and again.


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## 113016

PaulKershaw said:


> Hi Grath, the Exsis are the vehicles I was refering to, however Hymer did not sell them to Edge hill, they were sold to a German dealer who then sold them to Edge Hill.
> These are the only RHD that Hymer have sold to a German Dealer.


Thanks Paul for the info, I did suspect their would have been a German middle dealer quite possibly arranged by Hymer.
I was and I am still happy with the deal I received as the price tag was acceptable and I also received a very high part exchange price. Obviously, they made their money and must have purchased at a low price.
The Exsis for us is just about right with a good payload.
I do sincerely wish the new Hymer dealers and yourself well as I have owned three Hymers and I did not want to see the brand disappear from the UK.

Thanks again for the info


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## Sloany

How about you all try and buy a British built van? Now that would help us all out.

Dave


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## GEMMY

If they didn't build crap, it would help 8) 

tony

Swift have given up on here, they couldn't justify the rubbish they build


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## PaulKershaw

Great suggestion Dave however motorhomes are assembled using components that are largely imported, most English motorhomes are 80% imported components and usually on base chassis from Italy or Germany.
In your case probably more, as yours is a conversion of a French commercial van using largely imported components, not much British about that.
All vehicles are now unilaterally built, but I take your point and you probably meant well when you bought your Peugeot.


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## Sloany

Thanks Paul Kershaw & Gemmy but im sure the lads working in the factory in ( England) are glad they are building the motorhomes they are building, regardless of where the parts come from. I have owned 3 hymers 1st a B55 2nd a B66 and 3rd a B77 and my honest opinion is: Not a bad van BUT Not a great van, AND Hymer customet sevice is s#i#e.
Dave


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## 113016

Hi Guys, British versus Continental?
I have had three Hymers, first a C Class, then a Low profile Tramp and now a baby A Class Exsis.
When I purchased the first, I did not know if they were any better built than a UK van, but on the strength of the quality and reliability for 3 years of the first van, which I purchased when it was three years old, I then purchased a second Hymer which again was three years of age.
I kept this Tramp for nearly five years and have had no serious issues, just a couple of minor parts which Hymer buy in.
Again on the performance of the last two Hymers, I have recently purchased a pre registered Exsis. If this van is as good as the other two, I will be a happy bunny!
I firmly believe that Hymers and most other German vans are made for wilding and using aire's where you are using the vans facilities, we have showered in ours most of the time and no problems at all.
I do wonder how a UK built van would compare as many (not all) are made for campsite hopping, which seems to be the preference for most UK campers.
I have heard so many water ingress problems on UK and Italian vans and this has certainly put me off.
OK UK vans are more homely and frilly, but German vans are more functional which is my preference.
I also understand that the odd bad Hymer does slip through the net, but it does seem that more than the odd UK van gets to the end user.
Just my opinion!


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## javea

Agree with you 100% Grath.

First motorhome was a Compass Drifter, drove it to Spain, fridge was falling out of it's mounting on the way back, creaks all over the place, rubbish. Sold it immediately we got back from the trip and bought a Pilote. Nice van but after 3 years it got 'measles' when the metal staples they had used to attach something to the inside walls reacted with the alloy outer skin. Pilote said they would do French vans first and Brits would have to wait a year - told them what to do with that idea!

Changed to first Hymer - absolutely no problems at all in 4 years, driven over unmade roads in darkest rural Spain etc. etc. nothing came loose or dropped off.

Second Hymer, 25,000 trouble free miles now, no worries about damp, etc. etc. - can't fault them.

Mike


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## Hymie

*Warranty Cover*

Hi Paul
Will owners who buy abroad be able to take their Hymer to any one of the new dealers for warranty work?.

This was always very difficult in the past - and another reason why so many uk owners take their vans to Bad Waldsee - the service work is done there to a high standard at a reasonable price.

cheers


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## bognormike

hi Hymie,

did you mean for this to be addressed to Paul Kershaw who has posted on this thread about Hymer in Uk?

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-124457-0-days0-orderasc-.html


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## airstream

*If like Swift Group*

Hi,
If they are set up like Swift then its a hope and goodwill job 
See reply from swift re the same question

Dear XXXXXXXXXX

I think those that have responded to your post have explained the situation with regards to warranty well. I feel I must step in at this point, as it seems that there still might be some confusion.
Although we produce a product that this similar to a car (both in cost, approvals, etc.), we are not the automotive industry. We do not own franchises dealers, and we sell our products to our Dealers, who in turn sell them to our end-customers.
Each Dealer is an independent business, who may sell an number of brands (and indeed products), but we cannot force them to take on the warranty work from another Dealer.
We do not place any restrictions on them doing this, if they wish, but it is their choice, and one that is normally driven by the need to create a relationship (or at least offer priority) to their retail customers first.
Ash

Regards Ray


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## Hymie

Hi Mike,
Yes i did - but i can see i pressed the New Subject instead of Reply!

cheers

Dave


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## bognormike

I'llsee if we can get it moved....


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## bognormike

now merged... 8)


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## bognormike

and a question from me for Paul kershaw :wink: ; as a now confirmed Hymer owner (vehicle originally supplied by B'Hills) :!: , when are we going to get a Hymer dealer in the south of England?


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## PaulKershaw

*Re: Warranty Cover*



Hymie said:


> Hi Paul
> Will owners who buy abroad be able to take their Hymer to any one of the new dealers for warranty work?.
> 
> This was always very difficult in the past - and another reason why so many uk owners take their vans to Bad Waldsee - the service work is done there to a high standard at a reasonable price.
> 
> cheers


Hi Hymie, this is a question I am asked often, and I think the answer supplied by swift seems to be acurate, if I can explain.
The manufacturer sells the vehicles to the dealer, and the dealer sells it to the customer. The selling dealer is required to give the customer a warranty "not the manufacturer" however manufacturers give a warranty to support there dealers and promote there products.
It is the legal responsibility of a selling dealer to support there customers and the product that they have sold.
As you know there are some back door dealers who import vehicles and sell them, however when there is a problem they send there customers to an authorised dealer for repairs, first that dealer is legally responsible for the goods they have sold, second they are morally responsible (they have taken the customers money), third why should the authorised dealer use its services and facilities to support a dealer who can't or won't support there own customers.
In answer to the question about a customer who buys from a foreign Hymer dealer, why????? in the past the UK has been more expensive, however the new UK dealer network is working on the same prices as all other European dealers and a like for like product will be the same price, so there is no longer a price benefit from going abroad, and therefore no reason, remember it is the selling dealer who is responsible for the goods they have sold.
Before buying ask yourself "if the selling dealer is to greedy to invest some of its profits in after sales facilities to look after its customers then why should I give this dealer my business" 
All approved Hymer dealers across Europe will give there own customers the very best service possible, and the new UK dealer network have been selected based on there reputation for excelent customer service.
"If you buy your groceries from Asda don't expect Tesco to give you loyalty points"


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## PaulKershaw

bognormike said:


> and a question from me for Paul kershaw :wink: ; as a now confirmed Hymer owner (vehicle originally supplied by B'Hills) :!: , when are we going to get a Hymer dealer in the south of England?


Hi Mike, sorry I have not got you a dealer in this area yet, as you can imagine we are very busy and I have to be certain that any dealer appointment is the right dealer.
We have appointed the very best new dealers in most parts of the UK however we are still trying to identify new dealers for the last open points in the North West and South East.
Paul


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## GEMMY

So Hymer dealers are merely sales people and do not support Hymer vans, just the product that they themselves have sold. :roll: 

That is the crux of the problem :!: :!: 

tony


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## PaulKershaw

GEMMY said:


> So Hymer dealers are merely sales people and do not support Hymer vans, just the product that they themselves have sold. :roll:
> 
> That is the crux of the problem :!: :!:
> 
> tony


Sorry I believe I said exactly the opposite, most (not all) back door dealers are just sales points and don't invest in service or parts departments.
I believe I said all approved Hymer dealers invest in the very best after sales service, how is this "just sales people"???


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## GEMMY

If they were TRUE Hymer dealers they would support the Hymer product irrespective of where it was purchased. Otherwise they will simply be regarded as sales outlets that sell Hymer products besides other marques :roll: 

tony


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## Patrick_Phillips

*Re: Warranty Cover*



PaulKershaw said:


> Hymie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Paul
> Will owners who buy abroad be able to take their Hymer to any one of the new dealers for warranty work?.
> 
> 
> 
> "If you buy your groceries from Asda don't expect Tesco to give you loyalty points"
Click to expand...

Sorry, Paul, but this attitude is soooo Little Englander and is the root of so many of our national commercial problems in customer service...

If I buy in ASDA in Manchester, ASDA in Southampton will honour the deal without question.

We don't all stay around the corner from the selling dealer; we move about in our lives. What use is a Glasgow warranty when the breakdown occurs in Greece?

the carefully built image is that Hymer is one big international family that cares for all its customers. Are we fools to believe this?

Also, the dealer has a claim back to the manufacturer. Action on that claim is not limited to the workshop of that dealer if the fault (valid claim) lies with the manufacturer.

Hymer create the image on which we make purchasing decisions. It is up to Hymer to honour that image - not just a moral one but a legal one both in EU and Little England. They need to take that responsibility on and not be talking about "grey imports" as "illegal". They are Hymer brand wherever they are bought.

Sorry about the rant and I am not even a Hymer customer but we need to promote good business practice in this country if we are to succeed like we once did.

Patrick

PS. Please don't take this criticism personally, Paul. We do welcome your input!


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## javea

I am afraid that you have opened the proverbial 'can of worms' here and your comments are in stark contrast to what I was told by Hymer themselves.

My previous Hymer was ordered direct from Hymer in Badwaldsee. I took a trip out there to see a new model which was coming out, at the time Brownhills didn't even know, or admit, that it was coming out and would happily have supplied me with what would within a short space of time been an out of date model.

During the discussion about the specification that I wanted I asked the specific question about warranty and was assured that ANY Hymer dealer in Europe would deal with a warranty issue. This statement was not made by a 'salesman' and knowing the Teutonic way of doing business I know they meant what was said.

If we follow your reasoning a UK customer who happens to be abroad with a catastrophic failure, let's say the heating packs up in the middle of a winter holiday in Switzerland, cannot have the warranty work done locally, he has to wait until he returns to the UK. If that is the case I would be loathe to buy a vehicle in the UK!

What about the damp ingress warranty? Hymer say nothing about it being done at the supplying dealer, just that it is done by a Hymer dealer within the specified period. Are you saying that it can only be done by the supplying dealer and any problem rectified by them? The stamp which is affixed in proof of the work is Hymer - not the dealer.

Furthermore, warranty work is not carried out by the dealer for free, he is paid for his time, just as if my Jaguar has a warranty problem whilst I am somewhere in darkest Europe the work will be done by the local Jaguar dealer and he will be reimbursed by the factory.

I echo Patrick Phillips comments - what you have said damages the impression that Hymer have fought hard to establish over the years as being a company of solid reputation who will look after their customers when in trouble with their products - wherever they may be. Extending your logic a little further it appears that I could not elect to go to Bad Waldsee to have warranty work carried out because they did not sell the vehicle to me??

As this is a sea change in Hymer owners' perception of the brand I would suggest that we need to have sight of official confirmation from Hymer Head Office as to exactly what the warranty situation is.

On the subject of the batch of Hymers being sold in the UK 'by unauthorised dealers' these vehicles, RHD, were sold by Hymer to a German dealer - where did they think they were going to end up - certainly not in Germany! Not a problem for me but if there is a warranty claim on one of these vehicles it should be dealt with by the 
Hymer network in the UK - to say 'not our problem' would be morally indefensible.


----------



## airstream

*??????*

Hi, 
I will repeat the statement from Swift Group re the legal obligation for service and warranty within the motorhome/caravan industry

The comparison with Asda.Asda is not valid as both outlets are within the same ownership try buying from Waitrose and claiming from Asda

Swift Statement

"Dear xxxxxx 
I think those that have responded to your post have explained the situation with regards to warranty well. I feel I must step in at this point, as it seems that there still might be some confusion. 
Although we produce a product that this similar to a car (both in cost, approvals, etc.), we are not the automotive industry. We do not own franchises dealers, and we sell our products to our Dealers, who in turn sell them to our end-customers. 
Each Dealer is an independent business, who may sell an number of brands (and indeed products), but we cannot force them to take on the warranty work from another Dealer. 
We do not place any restrictions on them doing this, if they wish, but it is their choice, and one that is normally driven by the need to create a relationship (or at least offer priority) to their retail customers first. 
Ash"

Only the supplying dealer has any legal responsibility to the buyer - the manufacturer will be there for the dealers back up

Would you try claiming from Bosch in Germany if your washer failed ? no you would go to the seller

We all have to accept that a £75,000 motorhome is not treated like a £10,000 car but more like a 50p packet of crisps

Sad but true

Regards and good luck Paul - (we purchased four Hymers from Maddisons all trouble free

Ray


----------



## PaulKershaw

*Re: Warranty Cover*



Patrick_Phillips said:


> PaulKershaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hymie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Paul
> Will owners who buy abroad be able to take their Hymer to any one of the new dealers for warranty work?.
> 
> 
> 
> "If you buy your groceries from Asda don't expect Tesco to give you loyalty points"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, Paul, but this attitude is soooo Little Englander and is the root of so many of our national commercial problems in customer service...
> 
> If I buy in ASDA in Manchester, ASDA in Southampton will honour the deal without question.
> 
> We don't all stay around the corner from the selling dealer; we move about in our lives. What use is a Glasgow warranty when the breakdown occurs in Greece?
> 
> the carefully built image is that Hymer is one big international family that cares for all its customers. Are we fools to believe this?
> 
> Also, the dealer has a claim back to the manufacturer. Action on that claim is not limited to the workshop of that dealer if the fault (valid claim) lies with the manufacturer.
> 
> Hymer create the image on which we make purchasing decisions. It is up to Hymer to honour that image - not just a moral one but a legal one both in EU and Little England. They need to take that responsibility on and not be talking about "grey imports" as "illegal". They are Hymer brand wherever they are bought.
> 
> Sorry about the rant and I am not even a Hymer customer but we need to promote good business practice in this country if we are to succeed like we once did.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> PS. Please don't take this criticism personally, Paul. We do welcome your input!
Click to expand...

Hi Patrick,
it is always good to talk  no offence taken.
remember this is not a Hymer issue it is the same for all brands. 
You quote two Asda outlets as a comparison, that is not fair, here we are talking about buying your heinz beans from Asda in glasgow and expecting Morrisons in London to replace them.
You are wrongly assuming all Dealers are the same company, they are clearly seperate businesses. Asda and Tesco sell the same products but are not the same business, you would never ask for a refund from one when purchasing from another.
You must first consider that most good dealers will re invest 50% of there profits into there service and parts departments, if you give your money to dealer A, how can you expect dealer B to give you some of it back?
I must correct you, the manufacturer is not responsible to the end customer only to its customer "the dealer". It is the dealer who is 100% responsible to you the customer.
I believe legally and moraly you have every right to expect support from your dealer, however if that service is not satisfactory it is incorrect to critisise a dealer who has had no involvement with your purchase.
All UK Hymer dealers are appointed because they give the very best service, however like all companies they have a choice who they serve, all though I am aware that many dealers will only serve there own customers, I am confident that UK Hymer dealers will look after all officially supplied Hymers that have been issued certificates of conformaty from new (Officially imported).
It is unlikley that any reputable dealer will take care of "grey imports" as they were intended for different countries and will not have UK conformety, there are literally hundreds of regulations affecting motorhomes and caravans and these are very much country specific.
I hear what you are saying about little England, howeve the dealers and manufactureres dont make the regulations, and I agree that it is crazy that there is not one standard for complience, dont shoot the messenger  
For further advice on this subject you can consult the National Caravan Council.
Hope this helps.


----------



## PaulKershaw

javea said:


> I am afraid that you have opened the proverbial 'can of worms' here and your comments are in stark contrast to what I was told by Hymer themselves.
> 
> My previous Hymer was ordered direct from Hymer in Badwaldsee. I took a trip out there to see a new model which was coming out, at the time Brownhills didn't even know, or admit, that it was coming out and would happily have supplied me with what would within a short space of time been an out of date model.
> 
> During the discussion about the specification that I wanted I asked the specific question about warranty and was assured that ANY Hymer dealer in Europe would deal with a warranty issue. This statement was not made by a 'salesman' and knowing the Teutonic way of doing business I know they meant what was said.
> 
> If we follow your reasoning a UK customer who happens to be abroad with a catastrophic failure, let's say the heating packs up in the middle of a winter holiday in Switzerland, cannot have the warranty work done locally, he has to wait until he returns to the UK. If that is the case I would be loathe to buy a vehicle in the UK!
> 
> What about the damp ingress warranty? Hymer say nothing about it being done at the supplying dealer, just that it is done by a Hymer dealer within the specified period. Are you saying that it can only be done by the supplying dealer and any problem rectified by them? The stamp which is affixed in proof of the work is Hymer - not the dealer.
> 
> Furthermore, warranty work is not carried out by the dealer for free, he is paid for his time, just as if my Jaguar has a warranty problem whilst I am somewhere in darkest Europe the work will be done by the local Jaguar dealer and he will be reimbursed by the factory.
> 
> I echo Patrick Phillips comments - what you have said damages the impression that Hymer have fought hard to establish over the years as being a company of solid reputation who will look after their customers when in trouble with their products - wherever they may be. Extending your logic a little further it appears that I could not elect to go to Bad Waldsee to have warranty work carried out because they did not sell the vehicle to me??
> 
> As this is a sea change in Hymer owners' perception of the brand I would suggest that we need to have sight of official confirmation from Hymer Head Office as to exactly what the warranty situation is.
> 
> On the subject of the batch of Hymers being sold in the UK 'by unauthorised dealers' these vehicles, RHD, were sold by Hymer to a German dealer - where did they think they were going to end up - certainly not in Germany! Not a problem for me but if there is a warranty claim on one of these vehicles it should be dealt with by the
> Hymer network in the UK - to say 'not our problem' would be morally indefensible.


Let me remind you this in not a Hymer issue, this affects all motorhomes and caravans, the UK in its wisdom sets different safety standards to the rest of Europe, unlike cars that have one set of standards.
Why do you keep blaming dealers? you have a choice when spending your money, it is right that we have choices and we should live with our choices.
The good news is that with price parity we won't have these issues in the future.
Juat as a matter of interest not only is it illegal to sell none conforming vehicles in the UK, but the NCC will not even let them be displayed at national shows anymore, so if displayed a LHD vehicle must carry a large sign saying that this vehicle is none complient and will not be sold in the UK.
Please accept the facts and stop blaming motorhome dealers.


----------



## javea

PaulKershaw said:


> javea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid that you have opened the proverbial 'can of worms' here and your comments are in stark contrast to what I was told by Hymer themselves.
> 
> My previous Hymer was ordered direct from Hymer in Badwaldsee. I took a trip out there to see a new model which was coming out, at the time Brownhills didn't even know, or admit, that it was coming out and would happily have supplied me with what would within a short space of time been an out of date model.
> 
> During the discussion about the specification that I wanted I asked the specific question about warranty and was assured that ANY Hymer dealer in Europe would deal with a warranty issue. This statement was not made by a 'salesman' and knowing the Teutonic way of doing business I know they meant what was said.
> 
> If we follow your reasoning a UK customer who happens to be abroad with a catastrophic failure, let's say the heating packs up in the middle of a winter holiday in Switzerland, cannot have the warranty work done locally, he has to wait until he returns to the UK. If that is the case I would be loathe to buy a vehicle in the UK!
> 
> What about the damp ingress warranty? Hymer say nothing about it being done at the supplying dealer, just that it is done by a Hymer dealer within the specified period. Are you saying that it can only be done by the supplying dealer and any problem rectified by them? The stamp which is affixed in proof of the work is Hymer - not the dealer.
> 
> Furthermore, warranty work is not carried out by the dealer for free, he is paid for his time, just as if my Jaguar has a warranty problem whilst I am somewhere in darkest Europe the work will be done by the local Jaguar dealer and he will be reimbursed by the factory.
> 
> I echo Patrick Phillips comments - what you have said damages the impression that Hymer have fought hard to establish over the years as being a company of solid reputation who will look after their customers when in trouble with their products - wherever they may be. Extending your logic a little further it appears that I could not elect to go to Bad Waldsee to have warranty work carried out because they did not sell the vehicle to me??
> 
> As this is a sea change in Hymer owners' perception of the brand I would suggest that we need to have sight of official confirmation from Hymer Head Office as to exactly what the warranty situation is.
> 
> On the subject of the batch of Hymers being sold in the UK 'by unauthorised dealers' these vehicles, RHD, were sold by Hymer to a German dealer - where did they think they were going to end up - certainly not in Germany! Not a problem for me but if there is a warranty claim on one of these vehicles it should be dealt with by the
> Hymer network in the UK - to say 'not our problem' would be morally indefensible.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me remind you this in not a Hymer issue, this affects all motorhomes and caravans, the UK in its wisdom sets different safety standards to the rest of Europe, unlike cars that have one set of standards.
> Why do you keep blaming dealers? you have a choice when spending your money, it is right that we have choices and we should live with our choices.
> The good news is that with price parity we won't have these issues in the future.
> Juat as a matter of interest not only is it illegal to sell none conforming vehicles in the UK, but the NCC will not even let them be displayed at national shows anymore, so if displayed a LHD vehicle must carry a large sign saying that this vehicle is none complient and will not be sold in the UK.
> Please accept the facts and stop blaming motorhome dealers.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the response Paul but you have not answered a specific question I posed.

If I buy a Hymer from an authorised dealer in the UK will any warranty work be carried out by a Hymer dealer in Europe if the problem occurs there or would I have to return the vehicle to the supplying dealer?

Mike


----------



## GEMMY

Mike, From what Paul has said, it depends on the goodwill of the dealer in Europe , He can say 'sod off' and there's nothing Hymer will do about it. :roll: :roll: :roll: 

tony


----------



## Jamsieboy

Hi
If it is the supplying dealerships responsibility rather than the manufacturers then why does the dealer state they are waiting for the manufacturer to approve certain warranty work?


----------



## erneboy

PaulKershaw said:


> ....................................................
> Please accept the facts and stop blaming motorhome dealers.


Hello Paul. I don't think we should accept the facts. I think we should strive to change the way things currently work. I imagine forward looking converters like Hymer should be striving to meet the requirements of their customers and it's perfectly clear that one biggie is that they want a pan European warranty.

I am surprised that as an experienced salesman you are arguing for the status quo rather that saying, "I see what you mean, this has been a bug bear for years. It's not something I can change on my own but I will bring it up when and where I can and perhaps, in time, we can see a change." You must be aware that not even trying to move this old chestnut along does not endear you or the Hymer brand to the buying public and that having this discussion on MHF is damaging for you.

I recognise that Hymer are not the only converter who find them selves on the receiving end of this particular criticism but why not take the lead on it. To take a cynical view, even if you never did a thing about it, you would deflect at least some of the criticism.

It's quite reasonable for motorhome owners to expect to be able to have their vehicles repaired under warranty where ever they are. After all we buy these vehicles specifically to travel around in and many of us want to make much longer journeys than we might in our cars, Alan.


----------



## grouch

Just a shame Paul Kershaw still has something to do with Hymer!


----------



## PaulKershaw

javea said:


> PaulKershaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> javea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid that you have opened the proverbial 'can of worms' here and your comments are in stark contrast to what I was told by Hymer themselves.
> 
> My previous Hymer was ordered direct from Hymer in Badwaldsee. I took a trip out there to see a new model which was coming out, at the time Brownhills didn't even know, or admit, that it was coming out and would happily have supplied me with what would within a short space of time been an out of date model.
> 
> During the discussion about the specification that I wanted I asked the specific question about warranty and was assured that ANY Hymer dealer in Europe would deal with a warranty issue. This statement was not made by a 'salesman' and knowing the Teutonic way of doing business I know they meant what was said.
> 
> If we follow your reasoning a UK customer who happens to be abroad with a catastrophic failure, let's say the heating packs up in the middle of a winter holiday in Switzerland, cannot have the warranty work done locally, he has to wait until he returns to the UK. If that is the case I would be loathe to buy a vehicle in the UK!
> 
> What about the damp ingress warranty? Hymer say nothing about it being done at the supplying dealer, just that it is done by a Hymer dealer within the specified period. Are you saying that it can only be done by the supplying dealer and any problem rectified by them? The stamp which is affixed in proof of the work is Hymer - not the dealer.
> 
> Furthermore, warranty work is not carried out by the dealer for free, he is paid for his time, just as if my Jaguar has a warranty problem whilst I am somewhere in darkest Europe the work will be done by the local Jaguar dealer and he will be reimbursed by the factory.
> 
> I echo Patrick Phillips comments - what you have said damages the impression that Hymer have fought hard to establish over the years as being a company of solid reputation who will look after their customers when in trouble with their products - wherever they may be. Extending your logic a little further it appears that I could not elect to go to Bad Waldsee to have warranty work carried out because they did not sell the vehicle to me??
> 
> As this is a sea change in Hymer owners' perception of the brand I would suggest that we need to have sight of official confirmation from Hymer Head Office as to exactly what the warranty situation is.
> 
> On the subject of the batch of Hymers being sold in the UK 'by unauthorised dealers' these vehicles, RHD, were sold by Hymer to a German dealer - where did they think they were going to end up - certainly not in Germany! Not a problem for me but if there is a warranty claim on one of these vehicles it should be dealt with by the
> Hymer network in the UK - to say 'not our problem' would be morally indefensible.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me remind you this in not a Hymer issue, this affects all motorhomes and caravans, the UK in its wisdom sets different safety standards to the rest of Europe, unlike cars that have one set of standards.
> Why do you keep blaming dealers? you have a choice when spending your money, it is right that we have choices and we should live with our choices.
> The good news is that with price parity we won't have these issues in the future.
> Juat as a matter of interest not only is it illegal to sell none conforming vehicles in the UK, but the NCC will not even let them be displayed at national shows anymore, so if displayed a LHD vehicle must carry a large sign saying that this vehicle is none complient and will not be sold in the UK.
> Please accept the facts and stop blaming motorhome dealers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the response Paul but you have not answered a specific question I posed.
> 
> If I buy a Hymer from an authorised dealer in the UK will any warranty work be carried out by a Hymer dealer in Europe if the problem occurs there or would I have to return the vehicle to the supplying dealer?
> 
> Mike
Click to expand...

Yes I am sure you will have no problem getting support from any Hymer dealer. Your Hymer will meet all European complience issues.


----------



## PaulKershaw

grouch said:


> Just a shame Paul Kershaw still has something to do with Hymer!


A bit childish, I dont make the regulations, for clarification please check the NCC website.
I have to say that I joined this site to hopefully assist with the many questions.
I can now see why previous similar attempts from other manufacturers have resulted in them pulling out.
If you cant or dont want to accept facts and it starts to get personal then it is time to wish you all well, and I'm out of here.
Best regards, and please be assured of the full support of the Hymer dealers.
Paul


----------



## PaulKershaw

erneboy said:


> PaulKershaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....................................................
> Please accept the facts and stop blaming motorhome dealers.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Paul. I don't think we should accept the facts. I think we should strive to change the way things currently work. I imagine forward looking converters like Hymer should be striving to meet the requirements of their customers and it's perfectly clear that one biggie is that they want a pan European warranty.
> 
> I am surprised that as an experienced salesman you are arguing for the status quo rather that saying, "I see what you mean, this has been a bug bear for years. It's not something I can change on my own but I will bring it up when and where I can and perhaps, in time, we can see a change." You must be aware that not even trying to move this old chestnut along does not endear you or the Hymer brand to the buying public and that having this discussion on MHF is damaging for you.
> 
> I recognise that Hymer are not the only converter who find them selves on the receiving end of this particular criticism but why not take the lead on it. To take a cynical view, even if you never did a thing about it, you would deflect at least some of the criticism.
> 
> It's quite reasonable for motorhome owners to expect to be able to have their vehicles repaired under warranty where ever they are. After all we buy these vehicles specifically to travel around in and many of us want to make much longer journeys than we might in our cars, Alan.
Click to expand...

One last comment, please listen, HYMER DOES HAVE A PAN EUROPEAN WARRANTY. however the regulations or the specific requirements differ from vastly, How is this hard to understand it is not a Hymer or a dealer issue. And I am not vain enough to suggest I can change UK law. 
All the best and I will continue to fight for Hymer and its customers.


----------



## GEMMY

Paul your last sentence should have added:

As long as you purchased your van from them!

What we want is an undertaking guaranteeing Hymer owners that they HAVE support from Any Hymer dealer at home or abroad.

tony


----------



## erneboy

One rather unfortunate personal remark and the toys come flying out of the pram Paul? Surely not!

I was rather looking forward to hearing what you had to say about my comments although I note that you do seem to have elected to ignore them completely.

If manufacturers, your choice of word I think, aren't willing to engage in meaningful discussions with their customers and instead try to bully them (as you seemed to be doing with your face the facts remark) it's no wonder they perceive themselves as having a rough ride on MHF.

I hope you prove me wrong and choose to stay on here and discuss matters, Alan.


----------



## grouch

When we purchased our Hymer from Belgium, Hymer Germany assured us that we could get warranty work done by Hymer UK. It was on this basis that we decided to purchase. Hymer UK (and Paul Kershaw) went out of their way to make this as difficult as they could for us and we have since met many other people who were treated the same. Funny there was no presence on the forum from Paul Kershaw until recently. Fight for Hymer customers. What rubbish!


----------



## PaulKershaw

GEMMY said:


> Paul your last sentence should have added:
> 
> As long as you purchased your van from them!
> 
> What we want is an undertaking guaranteeing Hymer owners that they HAVE support from Any Hymer dealer at home or abroad.
> 
> tony


No it was writen corectly


----------



## erneboy

Paul said, "One last comment, please listen, HYMER DOES HAVE A PAN EUROPEAN WARRANTY. however the regulations or the specific requirements differ from vastly, How is this hard to understand it is not a Hymer or a dealer issue. And I am not vain enough to suggest I can change UK law. 
All the best and I will continue to fight for Hymer and its customers."


Please don't make it your last comment Paul. It's an important and interesting topic.

Hymer may call it a Pan European warranty but from what you explained previously it is ineffective because dealers can choose to refuse the work. Have I misunderstood that? Alan.


----------



## PaulKershaw

erneboy said:


> One rather unfortunate personal remark and the toys come flying out of the pram Paul? Surely not!
> 
> I was rather looking forward to hearing what you had to say about my comments although I note that you do seem to have elected to ignore them completely.
> 
> If manufacturers, your choice of word I think, aren't willing to engage in meaningful discussions with their customers and instead try to bully them (as you seemed to be doing with your face the facts remark) it's no wonder they perceive themselves as having a rough ride on MHF.
> 
> I hope you prove me wrong and choose to stay on here and discuss matters, Alan.


I did answer your questions, why should I try and bully anyone? what would I have to gain? they are facts weather you accept them or not,
Hymer does have a pan european warranty, however country requirements do differ. FACT
Would you spend your Sunday afternoon taking critisism for just trying to help?
Look if you bought a pint of beer in a pub and it was not very good, would you go to another pub selling the same brand of beer and ask for a free pint?
Is it the brewery who made the bear at fault?
Is it the first pub who didnt clean his pumps at fault?
Is it the second pub who refused to serve the customer?
If you say its the first pub who is responsible for the beer he sells, then we are in agreement and we need no further discusion, and we can move on to other topics.


----------



## GEMMY

What has beans and pints got to do with differing country requirements; with a cupboard falling off the wall loaded with pants and socks, nearly killing the cat that was laid on the bed, looked in my handbook, nearest dealer in France was 40 miles away, def. a warranty issue, upon arrival, they wouldn't even look and told me to throw it in the garage until I got home. :roll:
Pan European = sham European

tony


----------



## PaulKershaw

GEMMY said:


> What has beans and pints got to do with differing country requirements; with a cupboard falling off the wall loaded with pants and socks, nearly killing the cat that was laid on the bed, looked in my handbook, nearest dealer in France was 40 miles away, def. a warranty issue, upon arrival, they wouldn't even look and told me to throw it in the garage until I got home. :roll:
> Pan European = sham European
> 
> tony


Come on guys, sorry to say it but you need a dose of reality here. This is a seasonal business, during the season every dealer has there work force streached to the limmit, common sense dictates that they will always put there own customers first, and I believe this is correct. There is rearly the time left to take care of customers from competitors.This is not dealers being silly it is just a fact.
Now I suppose you are going to say they should employ more people, but first please consider that experienced motorhome fitters are very hard to find and usually involves poaching them from a competitor thus leaving that dealer even shorter staffed.
If they do have sufficient staff to look after all there competitors customers, who will pay there wages in the winter months when you don't visit the dealer? and they have no work?
If you want a good service from a good dealer then consider this when buying, thats just simple common sense and applies in all aspects of life.


----------



## grouch

So why did you not just say this in the first place. 

When we visited Germany, the Export manager did say that he was aware of particular problems with Hymer UK which he was trying to resolve.

So I am sorry erneboy for my initial "personal comment" but if you had had the problems we had you would understand.


----------



## erneboy

I can understand that you would rather not work on a Sunday Paul, please feel free to leave it till a week day.

To answer the beer analogy one would discover in the pub whether the beer was OK or not and would have ready access to the retailer to seek to have the issue addressed and that's exactly what we would do if we found a fault with our motorhome and were near the supplying dealer.

Earlier on you were using a different comparison between Tesco and another retailer. In that case I am quite sure that a problem with one of their products could be rectified in another Tesco store.

Of course we appreciate that most of the companies who retail Hymers are independent BUT they also represent, sell and service Hymers and from the customers point of view it is perfectly reasonable to ask why they can't have their warranty work carried out at the Hymer agent or approved dealer nearest to where they happen to be at the time.

Hymer and their retailers may have difficulty with that and that's fine but there is a demand from your customers that you facilitate them in this perfectly reasonable expectation, especially as you tell us that Hymer have a Pan European warranty.

I am sure that you can see how many customers might be a little confused to be told that even thought there is a Pan European warranty they must return to the supplying dealer to have warranty work done.

I note that you cite legalities as preventing this in the case of what you describe as grey imports. I think that can be left aside as the majority of the vans and customers we are talking about will not be grey imports. 

I can't understand why you don't welcome the opportunity to at least try to work towards getting what your customers want.

I would have thought that if there was any perceived unfairness in the work load this might bring with it that the extra work would fall on dealers outside the UK given that it's quite clear far more Brits travel to Europe that the other way round. 

It would help if you spoke about motorhomes rather than beer or groceries. My guess is that many of us would just bin a bad item from Tesco rather that bother returning it. They won't be doing that when their motorhomes go wrong. There is no comparison.

Here is a better, if still inadequate, comparison. If they bought an Acer computer in the UK they could have it repaired under warranty anywhere in Europe.

If the Hymer network can't do that at present don't you think it's something they should work towards? I think it might be quite a big sales point to have a true, fully functioning Pan European warranty. While at the minute claiming to have one while explaining why it doesn't work barely seems legal to me, Alan.


----------



## erneboy

PaulKershaw said:


> Come on guys, sorry to say it but you need a dose of reality here. This is a seasonal business, during the season every dealer has there work force streached to the limmit, common sense dictates that they will always put there own customers first, and I believe this is correct. There is rearly the time left to take care of customers from competitors.This is not dealers being silly it is just a fact.
> Now I suppose you are going to say they should employ more people, but first please consider that experienced motorhome fitters are very hard to find and usually involves poaching them from a competitor thus leaving that dealer even shorter staffed.
> If they do have sufficient staff to look after all there competitors customers, who will pay there wages in the winter months when you don't visit the dealer? and they have no work?
> If you want a good service from a good dealer then consider this when buying, thats just simple common sense and applies in all aspects of life.


I can see some sense in that. It took you a while to abandon groceries and beer and come up with it though. It does not hold water otherwise every seasonal business would be in the same position.

If we take what you say at face value you have just completely ruled out any possibility of your Pan European warranty being able to function, Alan.


----------



## eurajohn

One of the reasons stated for why an "official" UK Hymer dealer would or should not work on a "grey" import is that the vehicle does not conform to UK standards and therefore has no certificate of conformity, therefore if an owner who has purchased an "official"UK van will not be granted service whilst on the continent as the vehicle will not conform to the country the owner finds themselves in when needing assistance!
Using that logic any suggestion of a PanEuropean support network is nonsense.
I'm aware Fiat do have some issues warranty wise but they don't wriggle out of warranty because the vehicle base is a grey import! do they?


----------



## Zepp

We had all this in the 80s & 90’s with car dealers not wanting to do warranty work on car imports.


( sorry for going off subject )

I can go into the dethleffs factory In Germany and order any part I need but I cannot order a part from the same factory if the delivery is to the UK . I have to go though a UK dealer but the rest of Europe can order parts direct from the factory.

I have been to the dethleffs factory and order parts so I know this is true also emailed them from the UK and they told me I have to go through a dealer it’s the UK dealers who insist on this.

Another case of rip off Britain if you did not buy the m/h off me I wont fix it . 


Paul


----------



## JockandRita

First of all, my thanks to Paul Kershaw for stepping up to the forums representing Hymer UK. 
As advised earlier Paul, it's not for the faint hearted.



Zepp said:


> I can go into the dethleffs factory In Germany and order any part I need but I cannot order a part from the same factory if the delivery is to the UK . I have to go though a UK dealer but the rest of Europe can order parts direct from the factory.
> 
> I have been to the dethleffs factory and order parts so I know this is true also emailed them from the UK and they told me I have to go through a dealer it's the UK dealers who insist on this.
> 
> Another case of rip off Britain if you did not buy the m/h off me I wont fix it .
> 
> Paul


And it's the same for us, ie, we can go to Bad Waldsee and have servicing done, and come away with a bag of bought spares for me to carry out DIY jobs on our Hymer, without a problem.
On the way back to the UK we can call into Thule/Omnistor at Mennen for awning servicing, and again to purchase spares. Both these companies are glad to see us, and are happy that we are owners of their products, and in the case of Thule/Omnistor, they would not accept payment for servicing, but thanked us for buying their product.

We are the third owners of our LHD E690, which was purchased from new at Campirama, Belgium, and first registered here in the UK. I have found Broonfools to be useless at obtaining spares, or even replying to enquiries, however, Camper UK have always managed to sort me out every time using their Preston contacts. However where do I go for spares now please?

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## PaulKershaw

eurajohn said:


> One of the reasons stated for why an "official" UK Hymer dealer would or should not work on a "grey" import is that the vehicle does not conform to UK standards and therefore has no certificate of conformity, therefore if an owner who has purchased an "official"UK van will not be granted service whilst on the continent as the vehicle will not conform to the country the owner finds themselves in when needing assistance!
> Using that logic any suggestion of a PanEuropean support network is nonsense.
> I'm aware Fiat do have some issues warranty wise but they don't wriggle out of warranty because the vehicle base is a grey import! do they?


Just to explain once again, the Fiat base, is a motor vehicle and has European complience therefor the standards are the same, it just needs registering with Fiat UK and there will be no warranty issues, in the case of the motorhome part, there are different requirements, UK regulations are more stringent to that of the rest of Europs, we can debate this all day but I suppose it is a good thing and the NCC do a great job here. So you can rest assured that you are ok in Europe with a UK spec vehicle however a LHD vehicle built for Europe will fail many UK requirements. You could ask any NCC dealer to check and carry out the nessesary alterations to meet UK requirements, clearly they will charge for this work. Once your vehicle complies with UK regulations you will have no problem with who can and can't work on it.


----------



## ched999uk

Reading this thread it appears to me that the main problem is that when Hymer advertise a PanEuropean warantee people expect to be able to have any issues resolved at any Hymer dealer.

Seems to me that Hymer need to either stop advertising a 'PanEuropean' warantee or make it a condition of being a Hymer dealer that they must honour the warantee of any Hymer no matter what Euro country it was purchased in!

So in reality the problem is actually caused by what Hymer. Surely as they have just created a new dealer network they should have sorted the PanEuropean warantee issue in the new dealer contracts.
It would have been simple if it was their intention to solve the issue!!!!


----------



## erneboy

PaulKershaw said:


> .............. there are different requirements, UK regulations are more stringent to that of the rest of Europs, .......................... however a LHD vehicle built for Europe will fail many UK requirements. ........................


If you could be specific about the regulations you refer to we might begin to understand what you are saying. Please explain, even give  just a few examples rather than pointing us towards a jumble of regulations. This clearly matters to you and you seem familiar with it.

I would find it informative because I know nothing at all about any legislation which would prevent a dealer in the UK or indeed anywhere else from working on an imported van.

You are the expert Paul and I am keen to understand, so over to you. Alan.


----------



## peejay

I too would like to know what these UK specific regulations are, the only one i'm aware of is the need for flame retardant upholstery.

What are the others that make it such an issue please?

Pete


----------



## javea

Found the following which was a draft issued by the NCC to the press in 2008, if this is the sum total of the requirements it appears that the only areas which could be in contention would be the flame retardant upholstery and the lights, the latter easily altered and the former could be dealt with if necessary but would a UK dealer realise that the upholstery was not 'flameproof' anyway.

Extract:


The table below highlights some of the aspects of the NCC Scheme and how it compares to legal requirements. These requirements vary according to the product inspected.
NCC UK Regulations
Structural rigidity	âˆš 
Chassis and undergear (not motorhomes)	âˆš	âˆš
Weights and dimensions	âˆš	âˆš
Road lights (where applicable)	âˆš	âˆš
LPG (gas) system	âˆš	âˆš
Electrical system (230v +12v)	âˆš 
Appliances and their installations	âˆš 
Heating system and thermal performance	âˆš 
Ventilation system	âˆš 
Water system	âˆš 
Bedding and upholstery– flammability	âˆš	âˆš
Bunkbeds – strength and entrapment	âˆš 
Windows/doors/emergency escape	âˆš 
Safety signs and equipment	âˆš 
CRiS checked (touring caravans only)	âˆš

The table will not copy and paste exactly as per original, the first tick refers to NCC regulations the second to UK regulations.

Mike


----------



## erneboy

Thanks for that Mike.

Do you know if a UK dealer is legally required to satisfy himself that a vehicle complies with UK regulations prior to working on it? 

The question does not seem to apply the other way round as Mr. Kershaw tells us that UK regulations require a higher standard than those in the rest of Europe.

I have never been asked any questions on that topic, has anyone else? Alan.


----------



## javea

Alan, my experience is that I have not experienced any questions being raised by the UK dealers who have been involved in servicing my Hymer motorhomes, both purchased in Germany, both LHD.

Brownhills carried out minor warranty issues on the current one without quibble and have also carried out unrelated work, including habitation checks, again without comment.

Recently, having lost confidence in that organisation, I have been using another highly regarded dealer, I will not name them in open forum as I have no desire to cause them difficulties arising out of this post, and again they have never raised any questions about the vehicle not being sourced from a UK dealer.

Mike


----------



## MyGalSal

javea said:


> I am afraid that you have opened the proverbial 'can of worms' here and your comments are in stark contrast to what I was told by Hymer themselves.
> 
> My previous Hymer was ordered direct from Hymer in Badwaldsee. I took a trip out there to see a new model which was coming out, at the time Brownhills didn't even know, or admit, that it was coming out and would happily have supplied me with what would within a short space of time been an out of date model.
> 
> During the discussion about the specification that I wanted I asked the specific question about warranty and was assured that ANY Hymer dealer in Europe would deal with a warranty issue. This statement was not made by a 'salesman' and knowing the Teutonic way of doing business I know they meant what was said.
> 
> If we follow your reasoning a UK customer who happens to be abroad with a catastrophic failure, let's say the heating packs up in the middle of a winter holiday in Switzerland, cannot have the warranty work done locally, he has to wait until he returns to the UK. If that is the case I would be loathe to buy a vehicle in the UK!
> 
> What about the damp ingress warranty? Hymer say nothing about it being done at the supplying dealer, just that it is done by a Hymer dealer within the specified period. Are you saying that it can only be done by the supplying dealer and any problem rectified by them? The stamp which is affixed in proof of the work is Hymer - not the dealer.
> 
> Furthermore, warranty work is not carried out by the dealer for free, he is paid for his time, just as if my Jaguar has a warranty problem whilst I am somewhere in darkest Europe the work will be done by the local Jaguar dealer and he will be reimbursed by the factory.
> 
> I echo Patrick Phillips comments - what you have said damages the impression that Hymer have fought hard to establish over the years as being a company of solid reputation who will look after their customers when in trouble with their products - wherever they may be. Extending your logic a little further it appears that I could not elect to go to Bad Waldsee to have warranty work carried out because they did not sell the vehicle to me??
> 
> As this is a sea change in Hymer owners' perception of the brand I would suggest that we need to have sight of official confirmation from Hymer Head Office as to exactly what the warranty situation is.
> 
> On the subject of the batch of Hymers being sold in the UK 'by unauthorised dealers' these vehicles, RHD, were sold by Hymer to a German dealer - where did they think they were going to end up - certainly not in Germany! Not a problem for me but if there is a warranty claim on one of these vehicles it should be dealt with by the
> Hymer network in the UK - to say 'not our problem' would be morally indefensible.


Firstly welcome to Paul and I am delighted that someone representing Hymer in the UK has chosen to enter the fray and hopefully answer our questions.

I am sorry if my post is basically repeating what has gone before but I feel that Paul seemingly chose to ignore all the points in Javea's post re pan-European warranty, and these points are of great interest to me.

I am not interested in analogies - pies and pints mean nothing to me. What does mean something to me is the facility to travel in my motorhome - after all isn't that what motorhomes are intended for - with peace of mind.

Should I have a problem in either the UK or Europe I can have the problem attended to.

One of the reasons I bought my Hymer - apart from the obvious quality of the vehicle - is because Hymer has a large network of Hymer agents throughout Europe, and Hymer maintain that work can be carried out at any Hymer dealer. Wherever I travel I am in relatively easy reach of a Hymer dealer. I don't expect any dealer to drop everything in order to accommodate work needed on my van (re Paul's comment on 'dose of reality') but I DO expect that they would attend to it in a given period, and an appointment duly made. I am sometimes - and I am not alone in this - in Europe for several months at a time and it is just not practical to say you must just wait until you get back to the UK to visit the dealer from whom you purchased the van.

This is my third Hymer and I have visited Bad Waldsee on several occasions to have work done and have been received with a warm welcome and a smile, and the warranty work has been carried out willingly and efficiently. It is interesting how many other Brits I have encountered there also having work done on their vans.

So, have I got my head around this correctly and is Paul saying that Hymer owners cannot have warranty work done anywhere other than their original dealer?

Sal


----------



## stevethebeekeeper

MyGalSal said:


> So, have I got my head around this correctly and is Paul saying that Hymer owners cannot have warranty work done anywhere other than their original dealer?
> 
> Sal


It is good to see Paul coming here to help out, so thanks for that.

Sal the way I have understood it is.

If you buy a UK purchased NCC compliant vehicle it can have warranty work done anywhere.

If you buy a EU purchased non NCC compliant vehicle it can not be done by a UK dealer.

If you convert an EU purchased non NCC compliant vehicle to a compliant NCC one then the warranty can also be done in the UK

So the real problem is the NCC. I have to say that is one reason I did not buy a NCC vehicle. We rented a few hire vans before buying. Because of some of the NCC 'ideas' in them it did mean we would not buy one that was NCC approved.


----------



## 113016

I think that if a UK dealer refuses to do warranty work on an imported Hymer on the grounds of the continental vehicle does not meet UK standards, then they are using it as an excuse with no legality behind it.
I doubt that Hymer would be very impressed, but in the current climate I also doubt they would do anything about it.
Sounds to me like a get out excuse.
The Hymer warranty is from the Hymer factory and the dealer is their representative who should look into all genuine warranty claims.
The problem is that warranty work payment from the manufacturer to the dealer very often will not cover the total costs as factories often set a time to do the job and the dealer will very often take a lot longer.
Then it comes down to good will and customer service!


----------



## peribro

MyGalSal said:


> So, have I got my head around this correctly and is Paul saying that Hymer owners cannot have warranty work done anywhere other than their original dealer?


No - you haven't got your head around this correctly as he (Paul) didn't say that. I interpret what he did say though to mean that you can generally expect that warranty work will be done by any Hymer dealer but that it is not the case that it always will be or indeed that it has to be. I think that the analogies with pints of beer etc were spot on. As has already been pointed out, a purchaser's contract is with the supplying dealer not with any other dealer that may happen to sell the same manufacturer's product. That doesn't mean that other dealers who sell that same product won't try to help - they probably will and the manufacturer will also probably try to assist them in that process.


----------



## MyGalSal

peribro said:


> MyGalSal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, have I got my head around this correctly and is Paul saying that Hymer owners cannot have warranty work done anywhere other than their original dealer?
> 
> 
> 
> No - you haven't got your head around this correctly as he (Paul) didn't say that. I interpret what he did say though to mean that you can generally expect that warranty work will be done by any Hymer dealer but that it is not the case that it always will be or indeed that it has to be. I think that the analogies with pints of beer etc were spot on. As has already been pointed out, a purchaser's contract is with the supplying dealer not with any other dealer that may happen to sell the same manufacturer's product. That doesn't mean that other dealers who sell that same product won't try to help - they probably will and the manufacturer will also probably try to assist them in that process.
Click to expand...

Well, Peribro

Therein lies the rub - "you can generally expect that warranty work will be done by any Hymer dealer but that it is not the case that it always will be or indeed that it has to be."
That is not my understanding of Hymer's policy. But I fear we are going round in circles and my best bet is to get it from the horse's mouth when we call in to Bad Waldsee next month. They have certainly carried out warranty work on my vehicle and not referred me back to Brownhills in the UK.

Sal


----------



## erneboy

stevethebeekeeper said:


> ......................
> 
> If you buy a EU purchased non NCC compliant vehicle it can not be done by a UK dealer.
> 
> .....................


Is the suggestion here that the NCC in some way prevents dealers working on vehicles which don't comply with their requirements? Alan.


----------



## stevethebeekeeper

erneboy said:


> stevethebeekeeper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......................
> 
> If you buy a EU purchased non NCC compliant vehicle it can not be done by a UK dealer.
> 
> .....................
> 
> 
> 
> Is the suggestion here that the NCC in some way prevents dealers working on vehicles which don't comply with their requirements? Alan.
Click to expand...

That is my interpretation of Paul's post http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1247013.html#1247013


----------



## erneboy

erneboy said:


> If you could be specific about the regulations you refer to we might begin to understand what you are saying. Please explain, even give just a few examples rather than pointing us towards a jumble of regulations. This clearly matters to you and you seem familiar with it.
> 
> I would find it informative because I know nothing at all about any legislation which would prevent a dealer in the UK or indeed anywhere else from working on an imported van.
> 
> You are the expert Paul and I am keen to understand, so over to you. Alan.


Which was how I read Mr. Kershaw's post too. That lead to my asking Mr. Kershaw (above) to provide further information in support of what he said. He seems to be the expert on this topic while the rest of can only speculate as to what he meant, Alan.


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## eurajohn

My take on this is:
Prior to the "new" deal that Mr. Kershaw refers to, Brownhills were what most people thought to be the Hymer importer for UK (and I believe a view projected by them) and as such customers / owners would expect them to be an extension of the factory, their attitude to warranty issues are well voiced on this forum; now whether or not that was a reasonable way to treat "other" Hymer owners or not is of course debatable, in the light of the revelation that they were nothing more than an agent dealer having to purchase stock from Hymer, I'm inclined to be almost sympathetic.
He (Mr Kershaw) now suggests that there will be no reason for any UK customer to go abroad to purchase as there will be price parity across Europe but from the inference / attitude of his replies woe betide anyone that dares to do so as the new dealer network will not help as the vehicle is non UK compliant.
Or have I got it wrong again?


----------



## javea

OK everyone here is the definitive answer from the NCC.

I have copied their response to my web enquiry, my question appears at the end of there response so perhaps go there first to make sense of the reply.

Dear Enquirer,
Essentially there is no reason why you cannot do this because we now have a pan-European type approval scheme. But as you mention, there are a few things that will need to be changed for use on UK road; like the headlights will need to dip the other way and I think the fog lights might not be compliant. But provided you buy a type approved vehicle and get a Certificate of Conformity this should be minimal. For more information see:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/motorin...icle/importingandexportingavehicle/dg_4022583
It's interesting that they suggest transporting it rather than driving to the port to ensure the mileage is 'delivery' only.

I'm sure you have already checked the status for UK taxes due on a permanent import, if that is the case? See:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motorin...cle/ImportingAndExportingAVehicle/DG_10014606
Å¶
You will need to have the gas and electrical installations checked for UK use because the German certificates would not be recognised by UK authorities (or your insurer) and you can expect a few differences in the installations. For example, the German manufacturer may not have fitted an RCD on the mains connection so this would have to be rectified and gas drop holes are required under UK construction and use regulations (which are never fitted in Germany).

I would suggest you contact an independent Approved Workshop for the work and testing. To find the nearest one to you, enter your postcode in the following web page:
http://www.approvedworkshops.co.uk/search/?url=/search

I'm sure there will be forums on the net with comments from other people who have done this to share their experiences.

I hope this information helps you.

Best regards,

Martin Perman
Technical Officer 
Direct: [01252] 796054

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:25 PM
To: Press 
Subject: Motorhome Info Website Enquiry

I am considering the purchase of a German built motorhome from the manufacturer in that country. Are there any legal reasons why I cannot do this, assuming that the lights and speedometer are made to comply with UK road traffic act requirements. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Edited to delete my email address


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## grouch

Well. No new posts from Paul Kershaw. Wonder exactly why he joined the forum in the first place.


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## javea

grouch said:


> Well. No new posts from Paul Kershaw. Wonder exactly why he joined the forum in the first place.


If you can't stand the heat .............................


----------



## grouch

Exactly.


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## javea

I sent an enquiry to Hymer in Bad Waldsee regarding their 'Europe wide warranty' and have today received a reply.

As a long term buyer of their products and advocate of their service integrity I have to say that the response disappoints me, it also flies in the face of what I was told by senior people at the factory.

Copy of the reply:

Dear Mr ...........
 
with reference to your request dated 13.05.2012 we thank you first of all for your interest in purchasing yet another Hymer motorhome.
 
Legally, the warranty is extended by the dealer that sells the vehicle and so is the Hymer Weatherproof Guarantee. You can address another dealer regarding warranty issues, and we will process his warranty claim like any other, however, you should be aware that he has no legal obligation to help you.
 
We hope we were able to help you with this information.
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / yours sincerely / sincères salutations / distinti saluti
 
i.A. Isabella Biancavallo


So, you are in the middle of Europe and you have a warranty problem, local dealers won't help you - why should they when they have no legal obligation to do so - and to get the problem sorted you have to return to the supplying dealer? Not good enough Hymer - I wonder if the factory can also refuse to do the work as they were not the 'supplying dealer'???

Mike

Mike


----------



## GEMMY

Not good enough Hymer. :twisted: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tony


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## erneboy

It makes claiming a Pan European Warranty rather bogus, still I'm sure it looks good on sales literature and that the salesmen find it helpful when selling to people who don't know the truth.

I wouldn't be too hard on Hymer for it though it just brings them into line with all the rest, except for the misleading claim that is, Alan.


----------



## javea

Following on from my previous post regarding the response from Hymer I sent another enquiry as follows:


Dear Isabella,

Thank you for your response.

I am afraid that the statement that you have made has caused me to rethink my proposal to buy yet another Hymer vehicle. My current one is used mainly in Europe and yet it appears that during the warranty period of a new motorhome I stand the possibility of having to drive all the way back to the UK to have warranty work rectified if local dealers decline to do the work.

Another question arises from your answer, will the factory at Bad Waldsee attend to warranty work or is there a 'get out clause' here because they were not the supplying dealer.

Rather makes Hymer 'Europe Wide Warranty' seem rather worthless, doesn't it?

Regards,

THE RESPONSE:


Dear Mr. 

I just meant to caution you in advance to avoid future disappointment. If you opt for another motorhome brand just make sure their warranty processing comes up to your expectations. You see, our dealers are independent business entities, and our possibilities are much more limited than those, for instance, of some of the automobile manufacturers.

Like many of our dealers, the Hymer Service-Center at the factory in Bad Waldsee executes warranty repairs to all customers applying for an appointment regardless of which dealer supplied the vehicle. 

May we point out that we don’t advertise a “Hymer Europe Wide Warranty.”


Mit freundlichen Grüßen / yours sincerely / sincères salutations / distinti saluti



i.A. Isabella Biancavallo


----------



## MyGalSal

Some of you may be aware that we had a problem with a leaking door. Well, after various attempts by Brownhills and Bad Waldsee to fix it my husband has finally cracked the problem. It is not the door but it is the diesel filler flap. Water trickles down between the van side and the filler flap and into the doorwell. As a temp fix Don has run vaseline around it. This has worked as we had a terrific thunderstorm a couple of weeks ago and the doorwell stayed dry - first time in a year. So I guess it needs a gasket or something of that nature. I guess we could take them off and have a look at what is -or should be - underneath. Anyone know?
We also have a problem with the water filler flap. It won't latch down.

I contacted Brownhills, Durham who, although helpful, have no idea what I am talking about. They haven't a Hymer in stock so can't check the part. So I have sent photos and let's see how we go. (They still don't return phone calls though). And that's a thought I have had since the announcement of the new dealerships network. Great idea but there will be some steep learning curves because they won't have the familiarity and experience of Hymers.

So, to the point.... we are in Spain for a few months so it will have to wait until our return UNLESS we go to a Hymer dealer here and see how we get on. Also, we didn't use the lights in the van for a few days and the main lighting panel has stopped working. The two wee ones still work. I believe the main switch panel has a sleep mode which is then re-activated by the wee ones - but it hasn't. Anyone with a Star Edition (Gemmy?) and its magnificent lighting system any reasonable suggestions?

Will post if we try dealer in Vic (N of Barcelona).

Sal


----------



## javea

Sal,

I have had to same problem with my water filler flap, cured it by sticking Velcro to the flap and the base piece, works a treat.

Mike


----------



## erneboy

Mr. Kershaw seems to be under the impression that Hymer offer a Pan European Warranty. In fact he was quite emphatic that they do just a few pages back.

That's interesting. Hymer say the don't and their importer says they do. Is there some way in which both can be right? That might need some clarification so that prospective customers know where they stand, Alan.


----------



## 113016

javea said:


> Sal,
> 
> I have had to same problem with my water filler flap, cured it by sticking Velcro to the flap and the base piece, works a treat.
> 
> Mike


Likewise! our water filler failed to latch down, therefore we also fitted Velcro. I have also done the same with the fuel filler.
It seems that nowadays they are using cheaper flaps


----------



## GEMMY

MyGal, sorry only just picked up your post, been watching the 'flame' wiz by, the lighting system belongs on the space shuttle not a m/home :wink: However not had a problem with anything 'yet' :lol: 

tony


----------



## airstream

*Why?*

Hi All,
Why can't the fact that motorhome manufactures sell a product to a retailer and all legal responsibility for the sale and warranty is with the retailer be accepted by the mhf membership

Swift, Hymer etc are telling you this and no amount of moaning will change it - yes its crap but until the caravan/motorhome industry gets in line with the auto trade your warranty is with the supplying dealership

Ray


----------



## javea

*Re: Why?*



airstream said:


> Hi All,
> Why can't the fact that motorhome manufactures sell a product to a retailer and all legal responsibility for the sale and warranty is with the retailer be accepted by the mhf membership
> 
> Swift, Hymer etc are telling you this and no amount of moaning will change it - yes its crap but until the caravan/motorhome industry gets in line with the auto trade your warranty is with the supplying dealership
> 
> Ray


Why should we accept something that is clearly inequitable?

My Jaguar cost £50,000, in the event of a warranty claim it willbe dealt with by a Jaguar delear anywhere in Europe and that company will be paid by Jaguar for the work. If I change my Hymer now the equivalent will be approaching £100,000 and yet I am only guaranteed warranty repair at the supplying dealer.

A motorhome is used in a different way to a car, it is a leisure vehicle used by many of us abroad, hundreds or in some cases, thousands of miles away from the supplying dealer. Why should we have to go to Bad Waldsee or return to the UK for warranty work.

In my own case I was assured by a senior employee in Bad Waldsee that any warranty work would be done at ANY Hymer dealer in Europe, Paul Kershaw confirmed a Pan European warranty, now denied by his head office. The right hand doesn't know etc.

As for complaining - well if we don't nothing will happen - will it?

It is about time the motorhome manufacturers came out of their cosy little hole into the real world - if ever the Koreans get into making motorhomes heaven help them - Hymer, swift et al will not know what has hit them!


----------



## 113016

In an earlier life, I spent over 20 years within a marine sales and service environment and it was a condition of having all engine franchises that the dealer agreed to carry out any necessary warranty work for engine franchises that the business held.
Obviously the particular inboard or outboard engines needed to be within the warranty period and irrespective of who was the selling dealer.
Small warranty claims could be carried out without prior factory or importer authorization, however larger claims needed prior authorization. 
We always lost money on warranty claims as a certain labour time was given and paid for, but we could never carry out the jobs in the time allocated. Also the warranty reimbursement did not cover administration costs. 
The above also applied to Jet Ski's.
We were a large dealer and never tried to get out of warranty claims as it was a customer service and repeat business was important, and in any case it was the norm!
I never even considered that the M/H business was any different, until I read these recent posts.
They certainly need to get their act together!

As a three time Hymer owner and a recent purchaser of a new Hymer which due to Brownhills not able to take their allocated vans was sold to a German dealer and then resold to a UK dealer, I now wonder if I have any warranty at all.
That's the price I may have to pay for a grey import which did save a substantial sum.


----------



## MyGalSal

javea said:


> Sal,
> 
> I have had to same problem with my water filler flap, cured it by sticking Velcro to the flap and the base piece, works a treat.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike

We had a couple of small pieces of velcro and tried them but they didn't work. Possibly not man enough for the job. We will get some heavy duty stuff and have a go at that.

Don fixed the light switch simply by taking the panel off, power off (12v and 240v) and reset and its fine.

Sal


----------



## GEMMY

In the new issue of MMM there is an insert about the Hymer franchises and dealers.

tony


----------



## bognormike

GEMMY said:


> In the new issue of MMM there is an insert about the Hymer franchises and dealers.
> 
> tony


any news about the South of England?


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## javea

bognormike said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the new issue of MMM there is an insert about the Hymer franchises and dealers.
> 
> tony
> 
> 
> 
> any news about the South of England?
Click to expand...

No, not yet. Quote "To complete the line up,Paul is busy working on the North West and South East and is interested in hearing from interested parties who feel they can meet the criteria."

Mike


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## GEMMY

Only south west Mike,Paul Kershaw says he's busy on the north west and the south east but as yet zilch :wink: 

tony


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## duxdeluxe

"South East" no where near East Anglia......... If any of us country boys (and girls) buy a Hymer, lots of travel involved. I'd like one but not going to travel miles and miles to get a problem fixed.


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## GEMMY

I had no idea East Anglia was in Suffolk :lol: 

tony


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## duxdeluxe

Well it depends where you are....... Try not to be too pedantic about it, I was trying to make a point and if you are being really picky perhaps I should have more correctly said "East of England" :wink: 

No worries anyway.


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## bognormike

trouble is unless you're very lcuky to live near a delaer of any marque, everybody is going to have to travel a fair distance for any warranty / speciailist work etc. 

for us, anything's better than the possibility of travelling to Downhills in either Lancashire or Notts under the old regime - it's still a long way to our nearest (Somerset?), so for any habitation stuff we'll use Premier MH's - 10 miles away 8) . I wonder if they are in the mix for the Hymer dealership?


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## GEMMY

Mike, JC ? :lol: 

tony


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## peejay

One in Narfook would be good Mr Kershaw, not fussy, either Simpsons or Becks will do.

 

Pete


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## bognormike

Iwouldn't mind, but a fair hack across the other side of East Sussex for me. 

I would think Premier, Southdowns, JCM, Marquis (although as they are owned by Autosleeper, it seems unlikely/), Webbs (reading) Stewart Mouland could be in line? there aren't that many big dealers closer to London?


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## duxdeluxe

Mike, and all, you are right about the travel - I was lucky in that the model I wanted was only 20 minutes away and at the right price. I would seriously consider a Hymer but really don't want the excessive travel (as opposed to a fair bit of travel!) that it would involve now. Looking at the map, the East of England - as opposed to "East Angula"  - is pretty poorly supported but to be fair to Mr Kershaw (who I hope is reading this) any decision, as per a previous post on this thread is made for sound business reasons and we must accept that since they need to make a living and satisfy their shareholders, not just keep a few yokels like me happy.....


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## Baron1

GEMMY said:


> I had no idea East Anglia was in Suffolk :lol:
> 
> tony


Just to be slightly pedantic Tony, Suffolk is in East Anglia ,not the other way round, as is Norfolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire.
So, as you can see, that's quite a large area that doesn't have a Hymer dealership.

Mel.


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## GEMMY

They're working on it, by 2020 it'll be sorted. :wink: 

tony


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## bognormike

is that twenty past eight tonight? :lol: 

considering that they were going to have dealers in place for the launch of the 2013 models, they seem to be cutting things a bit fine?


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## LindaandNicole

*This post is great!!!*

Can I just say thank you to all the contributors on this post so far? We've literally just joined 'motorhomefacts' ( I haven't even completed our 'intro' info yet) and this thread has been an absolute mine of useful information to help our buying decisions. We plan to buy a Hymer to travel for a year in Europe in (so, LHD - and all being well automatic) - and where we may have to go for repairs/servicing is a big factor as we certainly won't want to have to break our year away to come back to the UK for service! This all makes it look like buying in Europe (maybe even going specifically to Germany) would be the most 'secure' and sensible option for us if we want service/repairs with no 'attitude' or jobsworthness in relation to the vehicle spec. No doubt I'll be back to ask more vehicle-specific questions soon but I just wanted to say thanks to the persistent Hymer owners for pursuing this 'is there a pan-european warranty or not' question. I'm bitterly disappointed that the motorhome industry seems so backward in this respect compared to cars (especially considering the damn machines are built for the purpose of travelling long distances!) but this has been really useful info so far. Looks like a trip to Germany for our purchase may be on the cards.... 8O


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## Baron1

A trip to Hymers factory in Bad Waldsee is not a bad idea with the exchange rates as they are, they have lots of second hand Hymers for sale and if you go in a van you get free hook up and water on their own "aire".
Another good place to look is Campirama in Belgium, they are really helpful with everything you need to export your van and speak excellent English.

Mel.


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## alshymer

*Brownhills no longer selling Hymer*

Hi
A friend of mine has just had a very good deal with Palmowski in Germany. Contact there for English speaking is Julian.
Regards
Alshymer


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## javea

The best place to look is www.mobile.de, lots of choice there.


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## listerdiesel

I've just read through the 15 pages of posts, and it is certainly an eye-opener!

Seems odd (from a non Hymer-owning person) that you can buy a German-built vehicle in the EU and seemingly fall out on warranty protection. Fine if you're spending a few hundred pounds, but when you are into serious money like £100k, or even half that figure, it is surely wrong that the manufacturer has this strange attitude to warranty.

I'm not in the financial league that could afford one, but I'd be very careful about buying was I to win the lottery tomorrow.

Has anyone looked into Sale of Goods acts and the other Consumer legislation with respect to this?

Peter


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## GEMMY

After hearing of Brownhills selling a site to Marquis:

Have Hymer and their Uk rep done anything about the remaining franchises to be awarded elsewhere in the Uk. :roll: 

When I said 2020 I was actually joking :wink: 

tony


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## bognormike

It's about time, Tony. :roll: They were supposed to have things in place before the new season's models arrived.....


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## GEMMY

We are waiting,we are waiting, WE ARE STILL WAITING. :roll: :wink: :lol: 

tony


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