# 60hz Question



## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Perhaps answered before but I couldn't find any reference .. 

Can the 60hz supply from the genny damage electronic equipment designed for 50hz ? 

I'm thinking of TV, DVD, Digi boxes etc and an electronically controlled washing machine.


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## neilandsue (Jul 13, 2006)

Hi Jim,

It depends on the type of device you are powering, most switched mode power supplies ie laptop are quite happy running on 60/50hz 
I am not sure on your washing machine as it uses a motor as well as a power supply, so check on the rating plate.

Neil


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Some transformers may run a little hotter than usual (extra eddy current losses) if designed for 50Hz and used on 60.

Some electrical motors may turn faster. Those induction types where frequency determines speed.

Old fashioned TVs may not lock the frame output (rolling picture) but I doubt if anyone takes one of these along these days.

Most modern electronic equipment will be fine 

Regards frank


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

hi Jim, from reading previous post's no, its m/sine wave that's more of a problem from your inverter, some washing m/c's use thyristors (don't ask me what they are :lol: ) and apparently they don't like m/sine wave.

Olley


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

What's an m/sine olley, if you tell me I'll tell you about thyristors. Has he got an inverter on his genny? I thought most produce a sine wave directly.



Frank


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Good morning Guys 

thank's for the replies so far .. hope we don't have a GT special on our hands... :lol: 

This question arose from my success in finally getting the genny to run .. now my better half is thinking about washing on the move 8O women.. :lol: 

The washing m/c is the main concern.. the motor will most likely be thyristor controlled, the plate does say 240v 50hz .. nothing about 60hz, an email to Whirlpool may help to answer .. until I know for sure I'm not going to risk it. 

I've already tried the old CRT telly .. no problems, likewise the sat digi boxes ..


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I have to go out so will pre-empt Olly's reply. Yes the waveform is important for some devices but power factor is probably more important from a thyristor point of view. Thyristors are the name for a group of solid state devices that are switched on by a tiny signal to control large currents such as motors. Unfortunately some of this group of devices can't be switched off just by taking the signal that switched them on away. No, as well, the current passing through them has to fall to zero. Ok that happens 100 (or 120 times) a second with a pure sinewave but if for any reason the waveform is distorted or the current is out of phase with the voltage they stay on and control is lost.

Regards Frank


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

Surely in Morocco Jim you run your genny on the move to power you roof A/C?


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

RR said:


> Surely in Morocco Jim you run your genny on the move to power you roof A/C?


Hi

Never needed the roof a/c in Morocco, it was a pleasant + 20c most of the time.. never too hot but I did use the cab air con occasionally. 
The genny started to act up in Spain, hard to start, then running rough.., I found the LPG solenoid valve was sticky, serviced and tuned the engine.. running sweet as a nut now..


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Frank M/sine wave is my lazy way of writing modified sine wave, which most inverters produce. 

Thanks for the info about thyristers, just to highjack jim's post a little,  are they likely to be damaged by m/sine wave do you know? 

After looking at jims washing m/c I am thinking of getting one, but my inverter is turned on most of the time, and is wired into the onboard electrics.

Olley


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## 103748 (Apr 4, 2007)

i don't know if this helps, but we have a 110v / 60hz US washer/dryer in our Diplomat & it works fine on the 50hz frequency from the mains.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

enroute said:


> i don't know if this helps, but we have a 110v / 60hz US washer/dryer in our Diplomat & it works fine on the 50hz frequency from the mains.


Hi .. welcome to the forum..

thank's for your input, that is reassuring.. 
I've emailed Whirlpool with the question,.. hopefully they will get back with a definitive answer..

cheers


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## 101411 (Oct 15, 2006)

Hi Jim

Your washing machine should be ok but the clock and hence the wash cycles may change due to the frequency difference.

I can imagine the answer from Whirlpool...................."we BELIEVE that the machine should function as normal but cannot confirm you will not experience problems." oh yes and forget any hint of a warranty repair!!!

Washing on the go..................sounds like the way forward!!!!!

Then all you have to do is set up a washing line on the roof hang out the smalls and set off down the motorway with you knickers flapping in the breeze, washing dry by the time you arrive (unless of course it rains!) RESULT!!!!!

Dazzer


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Dazzer said:


> I can imagine the answer from Whirlpool...................."we BELIEVE that the machine should function as normal but cannot confirm you will not experience problems." oh yes and forget any hint of a warranty repair!!!


You must be clairvoyant :lol: :lol: .. or is it Clair Voyant ?

I'm sure your prediction will come true ... :?

Congrats on your new toy ...


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Roughly speaking and without getting too technical...
Thyristors are a one way electronic switch, there are three pins, when voltage is applied across the cathode and anode no current will flow until a triggering voltage is applied to the gate pin. current will continue to flow even if the triggering voltage drops to zero. It will remain "on" until the voltage across the cathode and anode drop below a specific level.

In an AC circuit the thyristor will only conduct for half of each cycle (unless rectified 1st) so the gate would need to be triggered once each cycle to allow the thyristor to conduct.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Karl


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Karl 

thanks for the explanation on thyristor control but the question is still open, can 60hz damage a washing machine .. :? 

My own thoughts are that it may, by increasing the spinning speed from 1,000 rpm to 1,200 rpm ?? 8O 

My next thought was, can the genny speed be reduced from 1,800 rpm to 1,500 rpm.. this would give 50hz . more research methinks :?


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Jim if you did that wouldn't the voltage suffer a corresponding decrease? 

Without looking I suspect the genny speed can be altered simply by adjusting the spring, as I believe its a mechanical governor. I believe their designed so that at their rated voltage the Hz is right.

Olley


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

olley said:


> Hi Jim if you did that wouldn't the voltage suffer a corresponding decrease?


Hi Olley , sorry I missed your post last night.. wifi was acting up..

To be honest, you have me thinking now, but the speed determines the frequency not the voltage .. 
I read in the Kolar manual that they supply both 50 and 60 hz.. this is what made me think about it, when I was tuning the engine I had it varying between 55 and 62 hz .. but I never measured the voltage .. 
The governor controls the fuel depending on the load to maintain a pre set speed. 
When I got the engine running 'sweet' the frequency was spot on 60 hz..


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## chellaman (May 18, 2005)

Hello Jim,
Rotor speed definitely controls voltage!!!


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

chellaman said:


> Hello Jim,
> Rotor speed definitely controls voltage!!!


Hi

Not quite correct, the speed will affect the voltage but it is not *controlled* by it, this is done by modulating the small field current in order to produce a constant voltage at the stator output. The rotor speed determines the frequency.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

I would expect that running slower the engine hp will be down and by the laws of physics the output will also be down. As the voltage won't be then the current will be. Power in x efficiency is power out. Just have to hope the efficiency is higher at other than the design speed, probably not then 

Regards Frank

(and If I'm totally wrong hey I'm a radio engineer what do I know.  )


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Frank

Yes, I agree, power would be reduced by 20%, down to 4kw 

but I could live with that... just :lol: 

On ballance, I think it's best left at design speed and live with the 60hz. 


cheers


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