# Help! Now really confused over tyres.



## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

Just returned from our first 3 week trip on the continent, which was brilliant until the last day when we had a potentially disastrous tyre failure. Our r/n/s tyre deformed totally at about 55mph, shrivelled to the size of a motorcycle tyre. Managed to stop safely and the recovery service was faultless. We were very relieved it didn't happen while we were negotiating the Simplon Pass!!

All the other tyres look ok, and their manufacture all seem to be around first half of 2011, but having bought the van 4 months ago and therefore unsure of the existing tyres 'lifestyle' I am minded to change the lot so that I know where I am at! I have spent the last couple of days since getting back researching the multiple threads on this and other forums, and I am now totally confused, and without wanting to reignite these discussions could really do with advice.

The van is a Frankia i650 on a 2003 Ducato 4000kg and the current tyres are Goodyear Cargo C26 215/75R16C 113/111R.

Camper tyres / cargo tyres / manufacturer????? 

I don't want to spend money unnecessarily but it was a scary moment and I would rather be safe rather than sorry.

Thanks all.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Why did a 3 year old tyre deform totally? There must be a reason and unless you know that then the status of the other original tyres is unknown. Perhaps the tyre was running at or near its weight limit? Consideration of upgrading to 225 75 R16 116 or 121 weight rating would be worthwhile?


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

215 is a bit skinny for a four ton van, I'd want to go up to a 235 if it will go on the rim, which takes you well up on the load rating.

Having said that, you are well within the weight ratings with the existing tyres and being commercial they should be fine, but I'd just like a bit extra width if it was me.

Speed rating is OK too.

Peter


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

That tyre probably hit one of britains many super size potholes at some time. I would not worry unduly about one failure.

The fault could have even been there from manufacture. I know from working in a tyre factory. I surveyed the tyre moulding machinery (which is the final stage in manufacture) for Dunlop and there was excessive wear in a lot of them which can result in a flaw.

Also my 5 ton Burstner 747 had the same size tyres and they are the recommended size in the handbook (although a local tyre company owner reckoned the front tyres should be more than 113/111R at 2 ton max on that axle).

Strangely my new van is 4.5 ton and has 225/65 tyres fitted. :wink:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The load rating at 111 seems VERY low to me, bearing in mind the size/weight of your vehicle, also the width seems very narrow as well.

What is the max rear axle weight of your vehicle??

111 rated tyres can carry 1000Kg Each, That makes a max rear axle loading of ONLY 2000Kg  . If your MH is plated at 4000Kg I am certain that the rear axle plated weight will be much higher than 2000Kg

My Autotrail (also 4 tonnes gross) is plated at 2400Kg for the rear axle, and I have 275 width tyres rated at 121 !!! (a bit over the top but plenty of safety margin) If yours is the same rear axle loading then the tyres are clearly not up to the job in hand !!! by 400Kg and thats if you are not overweight on the rera axle (which is VERY easy to do!!)

Click on the below link to see the load rating chart. You need to see what your MH is plated at for the rear axle and then relate it to the load ratings (dont forget to divide then rear axle plated weight by 2 to get the load for each tyre!!)

http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/tyres-a...peed-indexes?gclid=CNqMs4iI7b8CFbDKtAodnxMA4A

Not being funny but did you weigh your vehicle at any time??? its entirley possible that you were over on your rear axle weight, that combined with a low load rated tyre could be the cause of your problem. Also when did you last check and what pressure were you running at, had you done a lot of miles just prior to the incident.

If a tyre suffers a failure at that sort of speed it is normal for it to disintegrate, just think of the huge centrifugal forces involved.

Just imagine what the wheel RPM is at 55Mph, Tyres are designed to resist such forces ONLY when fully inflated

So long as the tyres you decide to fit meet (or exceed) the manufacturers spec in respect of speed and load then there is no problem fitting the cheaper "White van man" tyres. I have done so for many years with problems at all. The makers say they will carry the required load at the required speed thats good enough for me.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have to agree with most points on here, the tyre size you have is just not up to the job, so upgrade to a min of 225.

cabby


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

The OP pointed out that it was a Front tyre that blew, not a rear one.

If the van WAS overloaded on the rear axle it would be taking weight OFF the front axle.

It was just a blow out for gawds sake. (sh)It happens. :wink:


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

A sudden loss of pressure at speed causes massive heat that will deform a tyre but this is often not seen due to the destruction that follows as you continue to move. I guess you just had a puncture but luckily managed to stop quickly before the tyre disintegrated, maybe because it was on the front so you felt it sooner and you probable saved yourself a lot of damage.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Don't *necessarily *look for complex answers to what might be a simple question.

Impossible to look for evidence now I guess, but if the tyre was under inflated, or had suffered a slow puncture causing it gradually to deflate, it would have overheated quite dramatically and eventually failed catastrophically.

Unfortunately it's quite difficult to detect such a problem from the driving position until it's too late. As the slowly deflating tyre heated up, the remaining air would expand to (in effect) re-inflate it - but quite clearly that would not go on for very long before the inevitable happened.

Don't take the word of we "_theorists_" though. Go to a specialist tyre place and ask them carefully to inspect the three remaining tyres. They should be able to set your mind at rest, one way or the other.

Dave


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## PF13 (Aug 2, 2013)

747 said:


> The OP pointed out that it was a Front tyre that blew, not a rear one.
> 
> If the van WAS overloaded on the rear axle it would be taking weight OFF the front axle.
> 
> It was just a blow out for gawds sake. (sh)It happens. :wink:


Is r/n/s not rear near side?


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## PF13 (Aug 2, 2013)

As well as the weight rating and other checks suggested, if the OP is feeling worried at the moment then investing in a TyrePal might be the way forward?

Our was just over £100 and works pretty much flawlessly. It is a good peace of mind unit just sitting on the dash with pressures displayed.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

PF13 said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> > The OP pointed out that it was a Front tyre that blew, not a rear one.
> ...


It's just not my day today is it? 

Time to bow out of motorhome forums I think. :?


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

I second the "increase the load index of your rear tyres" advice. Strongly second it in fact. And do it urgently.

You are massively overloading 111 load-rated tyres....I think they're only supposed to carry up to a MAXIMUM of 1090 kgs each.

At 4,000kgs overall weight, you've maybe got 1300kgs (perhaps more?) of weight on each rear tyre.

You need to fit rear tyres (plus the spare) that can each carry in excess of whatever your, fully loaded, rear-axle-weight-divided-by-two is.

Google for the amounts that tyres of each specified load index (eg 116, 121) can carry.

Get the van onto a weighbridge as a starting point ASAP.

http://www.ctyres.co.uk/tyre_info/tyre_load_index.html


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Naw don't leave us 747, unless of course it is for a trip to spec savers.   

cabby


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## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

Thanks All for your help.

A lot of learning there. 

Action plan:- 
1. find out what the axle weights are
2. visit a weighbridge
3. visit a tyre fitter to ensure my existing tyres are man enough for the job.

Until the next question folks!!!!


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Skez said:


> Thanks All for your help.
> 
> A lot of learning there.
> 
> ...


Of course, you could look on sometimes and answer other peoples questions though :wink:

Paul.


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## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

LOL !! when I've got the hang of this MH lark I will try my best Coppo :lol: 

Ask me one on sport!!!!!!


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

How many times did Alex Higgins win the snooker world championship and can you name the years.

No cheating now.

Pau;l.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Skez said:


> LOL !! when I've got the hang of this MH lark I will try my best Coppo :lol:
> 
> Ask me one on sport!!!!!!


Who scored the third goal ¿


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > How many times did Alex Higgins win the snooker world championship and can you name the years.
> ...


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## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

Twice, in 1972 and 1982 and world doubles champion in 1984 with Jimmy White.

(just off the top of my head that is!!)


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

You fibber, you googled it.

Snooker is sport isn't it, Alex Higgins was one of the fittest guys around :lol: 

Paul.


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