# To have a dog or not



## JanHank

Sometime back, way over a year ago, someone asked should they have a dog or not.
I often wonder if that person has a dog now.
I bring up this subject again in case there is someone who is thinking about having a dog for the first time.
You don´t just have to think about the present when the dog and you are young, but also about when you and it are older.
Those of us who have a dog or dogs have probably had them for years and couldn´t live without them.
Its 11 year since we first found Shade, we are 11 years older as well as him and looking after him is getting harder.
Because of arthritis in his toes he drags his right foot, he now needs to have a shoe on that foot before he can go out on hard surfaces, so we try to find grassy places to take him, not always easy.
The shoe has to be put on and thats not easy for either Hans or me even though shade is very obliging and lifts his foot up ready.
Grooming is also a chore because he can no longer jump up onto the grooming bench or the log outside which means we have to get down onto the floor to groom him, and then get up again.
In the past 2 months the vets bill has come to around 700€ something else to think about if you have a dog. 
Sorry, I´m rambling, there are others who have similar stories I know.
If you are _thinking_ of a dog, think ahead.


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## Spacerunner

Dog is ok but I prefer turkey, although last year we had a duck which was quite enjoyable.



Seriously......yes dogs are a life-altering experience. Once dog and I used to take day long rambles, now it's an hour at most due to the arthritis demon, mine not the dog's.
Luckily, or coincidentally, at five years old my labxlurcher is at last showing signs of slowing down. So although she can have enormous bursts of energy she is also quite content to doze in her bed all day. Even postie doesn't get his usual euphoric greeting.


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## Lesleykh

The joy my dogs bring me is always worth it for me. I'm one of the ones who would never be without a dog. When Charlie, who gave his name to our travel bog, died I lasted a week without a dog. I then rang Woodgreen and offered my services as a fosterer - thinking it'd be flexible, I'd be giving the dogs back, we could look after them between fostering. The first dog we took in was the adorable 4 month old Pommie, after 2 reserves on her fell though we adopted her. Then, a couple of years later, Woodgreen rang to say they had a lurcher bitch who was not thriving in kennels. She was due to go to a family, but could I have in between as she was losing so much weight. We had the skinny, nervous Princess. She went to a family and was returned a fortnight later. She is now the trim and toned Betty.

I wouldn't be without my gorgeous girlies, even when they come back from walks with my husband in the state in their picture!

Lesley


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## JanHank

Haslingfield, your bringing memories back to us Leslie.

Your also still young  
The next dog we have (crosses through our minds because our lovely boy won´t last forever), will be a Jack Russel or Scottie size me thinks.
It will be heart breaking not to have a big dog again.


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## Garcia

I guess you are a dog person or not!
Some people like em , but wouldn’t have one
Some hate em
Some even like cats?!!!

I’ve had dogs all my life from a child. Find it difficult to be without one.
Our last 2 died in the last Coupla years and we went a month without.
Took on 2 rescue dogs, then a third when the rescue centre couldn’t find it a home.
We are mid 60’s now and active and fit, but 3 young dogs are hard work and take up a lot of our day.
Hey...we’re retired...where’s the prob?
But the arthritis is kicking in and the stress re exercising and training the dogs is hard.

So people have to think long and hard about taking on the challenge...my large male has had serious probs with a leg....serious surgery and expense....over now we hope...but money IS an issue on a pension.
Just this eve, one of ours came for a 45 m walk and at the end decided to go runnabout....came back a half hour later on his own!
The wife’s away this week. 3 dogs on my own is seriously hard work.....
Don’t ever get a dog without realising the responsibility....
Garcia


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## Garcia

Oh and I might add ....the pleasure , love and loyalty they give is priceless!
Garcia


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## aldra

Im thinking when Shadow passes he will be the last of the German shepherds that we have had all our lives 

We are too old now to give them what they need in terms of exercise so sadly it will be the end of an Era

Maybe a lapdog 

I have an inkling for an English bull terrier :grin2:

Sandran


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## patp

We, too, lasted about a week after our last dog died  Her death was unexpected so we rushed round the rescue centres looking for a medium sized dog that could jump in the van but not take up too much room. It is harder than you would think! We ended up with Tigan the Romanian Hell Hound.
Like you, Jan, and others I could not contemplate living without a dog but am also finding the exercise and commitment harder now that we are older.
On the plus side our social life is full as we start our morning walk up through the village, across the fields and back via the village shop at 8.30 ish and may not get home until 11am some mornings. We catch up with all the local gossip, worry about our neighbours, get invited in for coffee. The walk should take about an hour and quarter!
In the afternoon it is just a 3/4 hour walk across different fields and meeting different people. The dog gets fitter and fitter and we get knackered 


The next dog will be a puppy that I can mould to our ways. I am exhausted by the Romanian Hell Hound. It will need to be a small breed because we will be very old if it lives for 12 years. No holy terriers, or hunting hounds, or crazy collies or super shepherds next time. I fancied a Cockapoo until Baxter came to stay! The rescue centres call them Velcro dogs! Can't move for falling over him 
It will be fun researching the next addition but it will need very careful thought...


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## JanHank

Shelties are really lovely, Motley is our fourth, they don´t loose the hair as much as a GSD.
He is playful, loving, full of mischief, I can pick him up, clean his teeth, look into every orifice and do whats necessary, (As I can with Shade except for the picking up bit.)
Motley is a brilliant little dog, extremely clever and learns very quickly, also very demanding, he keeps us on our toes
That is Motley, the other Shelties were also super little dogs, maybe we´ll have two if we find another little raskal.


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## Mrplodd

A very sensible initial post!

I have had dogs in the past, last one died about 10 years ago and has not been replaced. I certainly enjoyed their time with me.

They are certainly a source of pleasure/companionship and do help to keep you fit and active BUT they are likewise a liability both in time and money. They add to the cost of any trip abroad whether you travel by ferry or tunnel, then there is the question of what do you do with your dog if you wish to go out for the day! Especially in hot weather. Not all locations welcome dogs. I for one have been tripped up more than once by dogs on leads at street markets and in busy locations in towns.

So, as the OP suggested if you are thinking of getting a dog think very long and hard about the restrictions and limitations it will make to your overall life style. 

Most important of all be ruled by your head NOT your heart!

Andy


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## nicholsong

I like dogs and had a seriously good relationship with Basia's Son's Lab, including a bit of training which the family seemed unable/unwilling to do - took 1/2 hour. easy when there is good trust/feeling between human and dog. My G/Parents used to breed Golden Retrievers (Put down when the Germans started bombing Manchester - too cruel to subject them to that noise). But from them I learnt how to relate with dogs.

Having said that I would not have a dog in a MH, partly because I do not like small dogs(temperament wrong compared with Retrievers) and a larger dog does not have enough space, especially in wet weather.

If I were to have a dog in a MH it would be like my Father's dog in Germany - I cannot remember the breed. but it was a retriever about the height of a Clumber but the slimness of a Cocker, it really looked like a half-sized Irish Setter, lovely temperament.

I am expecting some contraversatial comment - but it will wash-over:wink2:

Geoff


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## aldra

I'm going for a poodle 

Definately not an 8 stone hell hound

Although

Ive grown accustomed to his face

Like breathing out and breathing in

Accustomed to his smile

He is my baby 

A hound from hell

I adore him , he adores me 

A mutual adoration 

But not in the van , outside in the garage he's fine 

A good holiday for him and us 

Sandra


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## Garcia

It can be very difficult in Spain and Portugal......
Bars do not accept dogs, but generally, the weather is good so sitting outside isn’t an issue.
France ...there are no probs...even in restos......UK I find a bit hit and miss, but not been back for 2 years.
There is a proposed new law here that bars can allow dogs. Whether it is passed we will see....
The big prob in the van is that we cannot see anything together... if there is a museum or site we want to see...we go alone as someone watches the dogs....
Leaving dogs in cars here in spring summer or autumn is NOT possible.....
G


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## aldra

Well we have aircon in the van

Always on site if it's hot

Wouldn't leave him without it , ad then only for a limited time

But we are not so spritelyso three hrs is enough for us 

He sleeps in the comfort of a cool van 

But walking him gets harder , grooming him difficult as he's not so spritely either, so can no longer leap up onto the work bench, and we can't bend down to the floor that well

Insurance about £ 60 a month 

But he's ours, part of the family and loved by all

In spite of the fact hes a hound from hell

Sandra


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## JanHank

I´d leave Hans at home before I´d leave the dogs and vice versa so we´re a good team.
We all love the motorhome as much as each other, it was a good buy.
We are no longer interested in museums, castles or any other buildings.
We don´t go to hot places because we don´t like it hot, yes we are a good team.


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## aldra

We travel out of season

But sometimes it can be hot 

So we have aircon 

Haven't needed it much this trip but we have used it

Set it to 16 if we go out and leave him 

So he's cool 

Sandra


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## JanHank

I know you have air con Sandra, but it wouldn´t be any good to us as we are rarely on leccy.

Our life is planned around the dogs, thats our way and has always been so, I think you are the same.

Usually if the dogs are not welcome we don´t go, if we know in advance that is.


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## raynipper

We had 12 glorious years with our Battersea Dogs Home rescue Lab/Dane. The kids grew up with him and all our holidays, cars and carpets were based around him.
But when he went we were a mess for weeks, even now 30 years later just thinking about him brings emotions out and we possibly selfishly don't want to go through that again. Thats the main reason we now enjoy the pets of others and have taken many foreign trips and visits. 
Now as we age and it seems there are always more jobs than time, we realise another pet would curtail so many activities we now take for granted. We walk with a group to get the exercise a dog would expect and the neighbours cat calms the heart when being stroked.

We enjoy wildlife now and the birds coming to the garden are an important part of our focus.

Ray.


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## ChrisandJohn

I know this thread is about dogs but many of the points made also apply to cats. OK, our Potzo is certainly not too heavy to lift, in fact he is losing weigh, but though cats are perhaps known for their independence they also involve a commitment to long term care during which time circumstances can change.

When we first got our motorhome we had three cats. Louise, a beautiful fluffy Persian x white farm cat, had a personality change and became very needy after her sister Thelma went missing one stormy night. After a few months we acquired Potzo and Lily (ginger tom and his brindled sister) to keep her company and Louise was able to return to her previous air of comfortable aloofness. Our motorhome trips have never been longer than three weeks due to grandparent duties and the garden, as well as the cats. With three fit and happy cats we would pay someone to come in and feed them once a day.

Louise eventually died at age 15 and as the other two got older problems arose. Our dog owning neighbours moved and were replaced by a couple with two large young cats. It became obvious that when we were away they would come through our cat flap and dominate the house, leaving our cats traumatised. Lily began to pee in the house so we had to introduce a litter tray and train her to use it. We replaced our ordinary cat flap with one controlled by microchip but Potzo refused to use it, so when we weren't around to let him out he used the litter tray too. Lily, never one to take a pill without a fight, developed an overactive thyroid and had to have daily pills. She eventually died two years ago, aged nearly 16.

Potzo, now 18 and on his own, has become increasingly frail and needy. When we went away a cat-loving friend nearby would come in twice a day to feed him, empty his litter tray, let him out to play and keep him company. But you can't ask someone to do this for too long or too often.

We moved in April and what we thought would be a traumatic change for Potzo has actually made him happier. The neighbourhood cats aren't pushy and he will happily come and go through an ordinary cat flap so we again don't have a litter tray. He is still though very demanding of company and attention and is particularly obsessed with John, wanting to sit on him all the time and waking him around 4 a.m. each morning. We've had a few short trips since we moved but we worry both about the cat and the imposition on the person we ask to come and feed and make a fuss of him. Potzo has been a little calmer recently and is sleeping more but has also gone off his food and is losing weight. Yesterday the vet said it is likely he has an over-active thyroid and she has also diagnosed a kidney problem. We're now introducing a different diet and will have to give him daily pills. I have a long weekend booked in London in a couple of weeks for an eye appointment and my son will come as much as he can to look after Potzo. After that I doubt we will be going away while we still have him.

Our granddaughter keeps pressing us to take on another cat that needs a home. At the moment though we are saying we won't have another, at least not while we still have the motorhome. It probably won't be easy though to resist.


Chris


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## raynipper

Just thought I would add this pic of our dog and son now aged 51. It was published in Womans Realm if any of you remember the mag.

Ray.


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## patp

All us dog owners know your pain Ray. We say, each time, that we will never have another one. Then the house seems so empty and off we go again!


As to cats, I think they are a bigger tie than dogs. We have had many cats, and I love them, but when the motorhome came along we made the resident cat, Basil, our last. We did try to take him on trips with us but he just hated travelling. On one such, experimental, trip he escaped from his harness and disappeared into Thetford Forest! He led us a merry dance through the trees and undergrowth before giving up and allowing himself to be caught.


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## ChrisandJohn

All of our cats have protested loudly throughout the short trip in the car to the vet. I have never even thought about taking them in the motorhome with us, though obviously some people do this successfully. I suppose you'd have to start at the kitten stage.


Chris


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## patp

Cats are such individuals aren't they? If you read A Cat Named Bob it is astounding how many things that cat coped with in his life.


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## aldra

I don't think we will replace Shadow 

We are getting too old for big dogs

The end of an era for German shepherds in our life 

Possibally a small dog 

A genuine lap dog

Not a GS that thinks he is

Sandra


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## Lesleykh

aldra said:


> I don't think we will replace Shadow
> 
> We are getting too old for big dogs
> 
> The end of an era for German shepherds in our life
> 
> Possibally a small dog
> 
> A genuine lap dog
> 
> Not a GS that thinks he is
> 
> Sandra


We are looking after a GS cross at the moment. She is a Spanish rescue and her owners thought they were getting a GS puppy, but she is now fully grown at 2 yrs old and is half the size of a GS. She looks so GS but tiny. Maybe one like her would suit you!

Lesley


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## aldra

No I love my big boned heavy long coated German shepherds

Thick legs, hairy yeti feet

Straight, straight backs 

They live on average 12 yrs 

I can't guarantee that I will 

Although I would consider a deerhound :grin2:

Sandra


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## JanHank

How strange Chris, this morning Hans said cats are just as much a problem as dogs, look at our Manny, she was the main reason we didn't stay away from home for long periods before Shades problem. No matter what animal you have, if you care about it you'll worry about it.


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## jiwawa

raynipper said:


> Just thought I would add this pic of our dog and son now aged 51. It was published in Womans Realm if any of you remember the mag.
> 
> Ray.


What a smashing photo Ray!


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## SteveRallye1

We have had dogs most of our working lives but not since 2000. My wife would love another one but I am quite happy watching other people enjoying them and even give them an occasional fuss, and love looking after other peoples dogs (ie housesitting), however I am more inclined to think of them as like Grandkids, its great having them but its nice to give them back to there owners! Recently at Blacknowle its dogs paradise but as lots of vanners seem to have them in multiples I would have reservations about buying a secondhand van off them, especially after the recent damp muddy weather. All that doggysmell in a confined space puts me off having one in our home on wheels. But good luck to em all!


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## JanHank

An honest answer Steve, sometimes it can´t be helped there is a doggy smell, but it doesn´t have to stay, I prefer that to smells some humans leave behind.

Sometimes I wish we could live without dogs, but as they have been our constant pals for the past 40 + years it would be like living without central heating, for the want of a better example.
They give us so much pleasure. 
The big dog has passed the 12 year mark and we hope he will continue to enjoy his life, he restricts what we can do now, but as long as he is here we will live our lives around him.


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## aldra

Puts me off too :grin2:

But why would a MH smell of dog ?

Anymore than it would smell of human?

Ok my hound has a whiff , but the hound swims , but I'll shampoo my van carpets , with ammonia, yes with ammonia , same as I do my house rugs, stinks but when dry completely deodorised , trust me 

All his kylies and the waterproof cover on his feather duvet in the MH garage ( oh yes he lives in style) will be washed 
He's never allowed on seats or bed in the van 

Well at home he does sneakily come onto the bed to talk to me once alberts up 
But we will ignore that:grin2:

He will be booked in for shampoo and grooming 

The van will be pristine 

Before the next trip 

It definately will not smell

Sandra


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## SteveRallye1

That's Ok, but I wonder if my kids are still traumatised after tent blew down years ago and they had to spend the night in car with out two very wet smelly, lovable hounds, cheers.


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## SteveRallye1

Sorry should read with our two hounds,cheers


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## aldra

Why on earth would they , kids smell things but kids 

Smell the scent of those they love 

It's not horrible

It's the smell of security, of love , of safety 
We lose so much as we get older 
Sandra


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## Garcia

Well if you had my experience of today, you’d think twice about dogs! These 3 will be the death of me.
Wife’s away so , as it’s a hunting day here and I had 20hunters cars parked at the end of the road, I thought , despite being alone, a walk in the local woods would be safer than the fields around our place......
5 hours of searching later, the little b**g***s.....strolled up to the car, knackered , but as if nothing had happened.!! 
Man I spoke to said it was prob deer....lots in the woods at the mo....rutting season I guess
Lucky blighters....!
Garcia


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## JanHank

Never had that trouble with any of ours after the first time they did it, have a job getting them to stop out in the garden on their own. 
Recall training, very important.


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## aldra

Shadow wouldn't go out of sight 

Packing , unpacking , activity around the van he's glued anxious we might shoot off without him 

And it's crossed my mind once or twice >

He's really anxious when I guide the van in, it's moving, I'm outside 

I'm sure it's different with two dogs , of course it was in the days we had two 

With him it's ensuring we are close 

Even he knows he's a hound from hell and his time is limited 

But he's my baby, and I love him to bits for all his faults 

Sandra


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## JanHank

As I have said before, Shade is scraping his right foot on the floor and has a bit of bother getting in the car, Yesterday Hans just went down the road to a friend and only took Motley with him in the car:smile2:, Motley was not happy without his friend. When we are all together thats the best both dogs think, so do we.


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## patp

All to do with the breed whether they like to stay around people (shepherding breeds) or clear off hunting (hounds. terriers etc).


We swore we would never have another hound breed after a lurcher and a Whippet. We scoured the rescue centres for a medium sized dog that had no hound or terrier in its breeding. Surprising how hard it is  We ended up with the Romanian Hunting Hound from Hell. We have deduced that he is from the feral population in the countryside of Romania. He just hates being confined in any way shape or form  I have a cupboard full of obedience rosettes that he has won. None of them mean a thing when he spots a hare!


Out of the three rescue dogs we took on recently, we have been left with Esther. She was an ex Dogs Trust rescue. The previous owners had not let her off the lead for the past 3 years, I should think, because of her propensity to clear off hunting! So that's two dogs on their flexi leads when in Hare Country (just up the road from here). I am going to work on her training (the previous owners did not know the meaning of "reward based training") to see if she is more motivated, than Tigan is, to come back for a tasty piece of chicken or liver. She is getting the idea when at the end of her flexi lead so next move will be a long line - but not in Hare Country! We have deer around here too but I think that Tigan is a bit intimidated by the size of them.


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## Garcia

Well I don’t know what breed my3 are, but they are def hounds...
Several people have stopped me and said are they Ridgebacks, and one bloke said mylarge male was the best looking Hungarian Vishla ??????he had seen.
Quite shocked when I told him they were rescued street dogs from Faro
I ‘ll send a pic if I can work out how to do it!!!!
Garcia


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## Garcia

TRy this.
That WAS once a pile of building sand !!!!!!
Garcia


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## Lesleykh

patp said:


> We swore we would never have another hound breed after a lurcher and a Whippet.


I'm the opposite. Our two lurcher girls both come with their own problems - Pom has a high prey drive & Betty wants to play chase and bite your neck with new dogs and is reactive on the lead - but I love them so much I'd have more like a shot. Previously we've have a collie springer cross - NEVER AGAIN!!! And a lab cross, lovely boy, so well behaved, but totally obsessed with fetching.

However, this might make folks think twice about getting a dog. We are looking after my sister-in-law's dog. We often take in dogs for holidays. Bella is a Spanish rescue - sort of GSD looking but much smaller. When we leave my dogs know they just sleep all day. The scene below is what I came home to yesterday!

Lesley


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## aldra

My grandsons dog is a cross ridgeback

A completely big soft love 
Stays here during the week when they work

A runner, skids all over my wooden floors

Good job I'm not for pristine 

Clean, shiny, lavender scented , pristine ,no 

I'm tempted towards the worn look 

It matches me 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

Garcia said:


> TRy this.
> That WAS once a pile of building sand !!!!!!
> Garcia


I don't see the tell-tale ridge on their backs so I don't think they're ridgebacks. Right colour tho.


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## aldra

Winstons ridge only comes up when he's guarding or concerned 

He his a cross 

But definately a ridgeback cross 

Sandra


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## patp

You can get DNA tests done on dogs now to ascertain what breeds are in their make up. I have heard that a company called Mars, among others, do them. Not sure about how accurate they are. Apparently they ask for a photo! The one I enquired with did not do them on Romanian dogs. I presume this is because they are too mixed up?


Esther looks like a Collie X but I have my suspicions that she might be a Kooikerhondje or a cross? I am tempted to send off a test without a photo.


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## aldra

why?

Does it really matter ? 

The hound is a pure long haired pedigree german shepherd , Rock Von Gold Midnight Ebony alias Shadow 

Still a hound from hell

And if he wasn't ?

He would be a non pure , mixed breed? German shepherd hound from hell 
Alias shadow 

But he would still be the love of my life , why I have no idea 

He just is, to me a gentle giant , to the family a gentle giant 

To outsiders a non gentle giant 

Sandra


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## Garcia

My female is a bit dark to show a ridge most of the time, but the larger male , her brother, who is fairer, does. Maybe cannot see it in the photos but he does look like a ridgeback. Has the tell tale wrinkles on the forehead and a pronounced ridge.
But he cannot be pure...they were street dogs...
Funnily enough, I looked up Hungarian Vishlas and there is a photo on the net that could really be my dog...
Who knows what’s in their bloodline....and who cares really.
When you get to the stage of making rules about what a dog should look like....well, we’ ll be back to docking tails and whatever....
Garcia


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## patp

It is not about the look with me. I like to know the character traits that come with certain breeds.


I loved living with my hounds but stopped enjoying the walking which is a huge part of dog ownership for me. So frustrating when they are whooping it up with the wildlife and I am late for an appointment 


I could not live with a very busy breed, like a collie, either even if the walking would be easier. Have had several cross breeds and mongrels and it fascinates me to find out what is in their genetic make up. Just like children can take after one parent or another or even and aunt or uncle.


I think I loved my German Shepherds most of all but could not be doing with all the research necessary now to avoid all the inherited diseases that the breed suffers from.


Saw a Wheaten Terrier the other day. They do not moult, for those that need a non moulting breed. They do need coat care. He was a lovely, friendly chap


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## JanHank

I prefer pointed noses, maybe thats because mine is :grin2:


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## aldra

In which case I'd be better suited to a boxer

Had one once, completely and utterly " do lally" 

Had a 6ft wall around our yard, neighbours complained he used their yard as a toilet, we thought no

But he did, we watched him scale the wall , by using the dustbin as a launching pad 

It was many years ago , before we fell in love with long haired German Shepherds

But still shadow will be the last, we're too old now to give them the time and exercise they need 

They need so much time as puppies and young dogs to socialise, grow easy with sights and sounds 

And though shadow had that, somewhere between then and now 

He became overprotective of his environment , over protective of me, but I don't think he understands why either 

He was definately calmer travelling in the garage with his open window , and feather duvet 

And was anxious to go out to it as we prepared to leave 

There he wasn't really protecting, true he barked at anyone who came close to him and the van , but it was more duty done 

In the van he used to lose it, restrained by his harness , but totally unnecessary

He's the same in the garden, but we have double gates , the internal one padlocked 

He prob wouldn't actually harm anyone

But who wants an 8 stone hound hurtling towards them like a bat out of hell 

No he will be the end of an era for us 

He's almost 10, should never have got that far with the loss of his intestines 

But apart from a greying beard, everyone is surprised, including the vets , he looks so much younger

Must have got it from me :grin2:>

Sandra


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## jiwawa

aldra said:


> But who wants an 8 stone hound hurtling towards them like a bat out of hell
> 
> Sandra


Absolutely not me - I had that experience passing a garden gate in Fucecchia recently and it scared the living daylights out of me - and I like dogs!


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## aldra

You wouldn't have a problem here Jean, the outside gate is solid wood

Its the internal one that he can see through 

Sandra


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## aldra

Well hes back from his bath and grooming

A close cut black bear, smells divine, groomed to within an inch of his life 

I know in his long natural coat he's really magnificent, buts he's mostly a house dog so he must feel much cooler clipped short, and it's much easier for us to keep him well groomed between sessions 

About £40 but money well spent 

Long coats pick up mud and twigs on walks 

When I first sent him to the groomers I was amazed when I was asked did we want his coat clipped, he's long haired I said 

But I thought about it , thought about the van, the fact he loves to swim, the fact that even out of season, Europe can be hot 

So we had him clipped before each trip 

And now when it has become more difficult fo Albert to groom him , he's clipped and groomed on his return as well 

I'd photograph him, he really does look like a bear , but the lazy hound won't stand up , just opens one eye and looks me up and down , I think that look means get lost :wink2:

Sandra


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## patp

I bet he feels better Sandra 


The little Cockapoo we were fostering was a demon for bringing in leaves and twigs etc in his coat! His hairy feet brought in lots of mud too . I hope people realise when they opt for a Cockapoo that, although they don't moult, they are not for the house proud.


Still on coats. Esther, who may or may not be a Kooikerhondje, has a lot of long white hair. When she came to stay I was dreading being permanently covered in white hair. I don't think I have seen one! Her coat is super soft. Perhaps she is crossed with a sheep?


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## aldra

Shadow never moulted his top long silky coat

Only his undercoat which could drift on the breeze like tumbleweed 

And needs excessive brushing 

Yeti feet?

Well he allows no one near his feet,so they remain untrimmed , I torment him, he goes to bite but stops because it's me 

But I allow him ten minutes on my bed once Albert gets up, not since we returned from France , he smells not so good 

But bathed and groomed tomorrow he can 

He is very vocal and in return I tickle his feet to annoy him 

You get your fun where you can >

Sandra


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## patp

It's funny but the little Cockapoo hated having his feet touched too. I think that dog's feet are much more sensitive than we realise. It is very easy, when wiping or clipping, to grip them and squeeze the toes together. When I used to run puppy classes we used to teach new owners to spread the foot when wiping it rather than squeezing it. Seemed to work on the puppies  Well no one got bitten!


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## aldra

Well surprize surprize 

Hadn't looked at his feet, always hairy yeti feet , so expected the same 

But Clare has actually clipped them 

She says how quiet and gentle he is, she loves him , a gentle giant 

But she says , he barks at anyone passing the outside window

He's guarding them too 

She's done a lovely job on him 

But my yeti feet have gone :crying::crying:

Sandra


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## JanHank

What about claw cutting, Hans has always cut our dogs claws, but if Shadow does a lot of road work I suppose they get worn down that way.
Shade has to have his cut quite regularly now because he can only really walk on grass, he doesn´t like it, we think because of the arthritis in his toes, probably hurts a bit now.


----------



## aldra

Well I'm with him on arthritis 

It certainly hurts a lot 

Sandra


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## aldra

And actually the cost today was £47 

But she did a fabulous job on him

Undercoat completely stripped , must have taken a full bottle of shampoo to clean him, he had been swimming in the the med sea 

Clean soft a house dog 

Sandra


----------



## ChrisandJohn

aldra said:


> Well I'm with him on arthritis
> 
> It certainly hurts a lot
> 
> Sandra


Yes, I thought that too and had a pang of empathy for him when I read that.

Chris


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## greygit

ChrisandJohn said:


> Yes, I thought that too and had a pang of empathy for him when I read that.
> 
> Chris


 Yep,I sympathize as well ,we are now in Spain and have just erected an awning and hammering in loads of pegs into a very hard pitch has set off the pain in my arthritic thumb joints and they hurt like bu**ery now.

Back to dogs, we lost our bull lurcher three weeks ago and the whippet and ourselves miss him a lot so tomorrow we are going to see a feral puppy at a local rescue centre to see if we would suite one another……..fingers crossed. :smile2:


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## JanHank

Very important that, see if you suite each other, just the same as making a human friend, you either click or not and some people don´t even think the dog might not like them.


----------



## greygit

Apparently this dog is not a very young puppy but it is very nervous of men but then I'm not a very macho type male so maybe we will get on. We used to have a Greyhound many years ago who hated butch men and when a builder (very butch) came to give us a quote on some work on the house this greyhound wanted to take a piece out of him and it took some doing to get her into another room. Perhaps dogs are better judges of character than we are when it comes to our fellow human beings.


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## JanHank

I may have told this story before.
We went to see a GSD 10 months old found wandering and taken to the police.
One of the dog handlers had him at home hoping to find him new owners.
This dog was frightened of men the policeman told us and it would be best if we sat down when he brought the dog into the room.
We sat on the sofa, the dog came in, made a beeline for Hans and licked his face, then came to me for a cuddle.
It was love at first sight for the dog and me, Hans had to clean his glasses before he could say the same thing.


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## aldra

I think the flip side of getting older and the ailments some us suffer from

Impinges on long term motorhoming 

We had a good holiday by our limited standards and managed to see things and places 

But a day wondering around a town is no longer possible, we’re too slow for shadow and pacing us is obviously not comfortable for him, he’s a heavy dog and isn’t getting any younger either 

Will run with the bike , and I thought my electric bike would get some use, but my hips and joints are so stiff that it’s a struggle just to get astride it, Albert says just tip it , but he doesn’t really understand I can’t balance on one foot and lift the other over ,so I panic and feel unsure that if I get on it can I get off ?

Without shadow we may do some fly city breaks, but I wouldn’t put him into kennels, and who would cook his meals ? 

The kids would have him but they work and he’s not used to being left alone 

So we search for areas where he can swim , or run freely with a throwing stick, where we can have a couple or so hours , which is not to far for us to walk , whilst leaving him in the van to see somethings 

It worked not so bad this trip, but the problem was our mobility not the hound 

The weather was great, the dog was wet more times than he was dry, clean clean water or the med sea 

But still as he dried slowly he smelt non too sweet 

But then again passable with a light rub of lavender oil 

But he is our last, we can no longer give what a German Shepherd needs , and if I’m honest Shadow isn’t getting what he needs in terms of exercise and walks 

But I guess if asked and could answer he’d stay with us faults an all 

He is loved and loves 

Sandra


----------



## patp

I would tread very carefully with the feral puppy. I have a Romanian rescue dog and he is truly the hardest dog I have ever known. He seems to hate being confined in any way, shape or form. House, garden, lead it does not matter he is so stressed all the time. Tries to take chunks out of anyone that comes to the house. Will not tolerate anyone coming close when on lead. Managing this behaviour is so stressful. He also does not really want human companionship. When at home he takes his self off upstairs after his walk and dinner. If we go upstairs he comes down. 
During the day he will lie on one of his beds indoors, if we are out in the garden. If we go indoors he goes out and lies down outside. He truly does not need companionship.
Apparently, in Romania, there are two types of feral dog. One is the "street dog" that hangs around human habitation and takes reasonably well to being rescued and living along side people. The other is the "rural dog". These dogs have very little to do with people and have become almost like a wild dog, just hunting for their food and being chased away from livestock by farmers.
He was rescued as a puppy with his mother and litter mates so he was not roaming himself. His mother was virtually wild and was still at the rescue centre the last I heard.


I am trying to persuade the people who rescue these dogs in Romania to neuter and release rather than ship them over to a foreign country. My poor boy must have been absolutely terrified and watching his mother's fear would not have helped him cope either 
The Spanish puppy may be completely different but I would never get another like this dog. Managing him rules our lives.


----------



## raynipper

patp said:


> Managing him rules our lives.


Says it all Pat.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank

It sounds like the marriage Pat, when she thinks she can change him, it doesn´t work.


----------



## patp

Sandra, does Shadow like doing mental games? They are almost as tiring as physical exercise. I do scent work with my dog. I went on a Talking Dogs Scentwork http://www.talkingdogsscentwork.co.uk/Talking_Dogs_Scentwork/Welcome.html course and learned from an ex Customs and Excise drugs dog handler how to work my dog at finding a particular scent. She teaches using catnip for dogs that love to play with scented toys or for dogs like mine that do not play with toys she uses cheese so that they get the food reward at the end of the search rather than a game with a toy. You can, however, use all kinds of scent and some people use ginger.

It is fascinating to learn how scent travels and how dogs learn to find a scented up article (she uses little felt mice as toys that can be squashed into tiny places).
Springer Spaniels can work an area for 40 minutes but Labradors tire after 20 minutes and have to be rested more often. Most dogs tire after a couple of five minute searches around the house.


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## aldra

Yes Pat

It’s our problem too

And he wasn’t a rescue , but we cannot trust him ,until he’s introduced 

When he guards the van or house he loses it 

And prior to him travelling in the garage our journeys became a nightmare , even opening a window set him off, not a quiet grumble , but a demented barking which we couldn’t calm 

We were out and in of the van putting him in the garage whilst we filled up with deisal etc 

Dreaded zebra crossings 

Doesn’t mind people or dogs when he’s on a lead, but the slightest aggression from a dog and he would attack

Can’t take him to a cafe , a bustling waiter etc is a danger signal 

He’s always controlled but it’s hard work and we can’t relax 

And we have struggled to understand how a dog when introduced becomes such a gentle giant to the people who meet him 

But we can’t risk him with those we haven’t managed to introduce 

Sandra


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## aldra

patp said:


> Sandra, does Shadow like doing mental games? They are almost as tiring as physical exercise. I do scent work with my dog. I went on a Talking Dogs Scentwork http://www.talkingdogsscentwork.co.uk/Talking_Dogs_Scentwork/Welcome.html course and learned from an ex Customs and Excise drugs dog handler how to work my dog at finding a particular scent. She teaches using catnip for dogs that love to play with scented toys or for dogs like mine that do not play with toys she uses cheese so that they get the food reward at the end of the search rather than a game with a toy. You can, however, use all kinds of scent and some people use ginger.
> 
> It is fascinating to learn how scent travels and how dogs learn to find a scented up article (she uses little felt mice as toys that can be squashed into tiny places).
> Springer Spaniels can work an area for 40 minutes but Labradors tire after 20 minutes and have to be rested more often. Most dogs tire after a couple of five minute searches around the house.


I don't know pat

But we are not really fit enough and he is prob too old

We muddle on , and prob life is not perfect for him

Albert walks him most days, he has a garden, sometimes he sits in the downstairs toilet and stares at his lead

He loves the family and they are in and out visiting most days

And the truth is life isn't always kind to us , our joints are painful

And isn't always kind to him

But he's loved and knows it

And he loves us and we know it

It could have been worse 
Sandra


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## patp

You don't have to be fit to hide a scented toy or a piece of cheese around the house. You then give him the signal to find it and watch him while he searches  He uses is nose and has to breathe differently which tires him physically and mentally.


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## aldra

But we don’t understand the principal of it Pat 

Surely he’d need to trained in it

Sandra


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## greygit

patp said:


> I would tread very carefully with the feral puppy. I have a Romanian rescue dog and he is truly the hardest dog I have ever known. He seems to hate being confined in any way, shape or form. House, garden, lead it does not matter he is so stressed all the time. Tries to take chunks out of anyone that comes to the house. Will not tolerate anyone coming close when on lead. Managing this behaviour is so stressful. He also does not really want human companionship. When at home he takes his self off upstairs after his walk and dinner. If we go upstairs he comes down.
> During the day he will lie on one of his beds indoors, if we are out in the garden. If we go indoors he goes out and lies down outside. He truly does not need companionship.
> Apparently, in Romania, there are two types of feral dog. One is the "street dog" that hangs around human habitation and takes reasonably well to being rescued and living along side people. The other is the "rural dog". These dogs have very little to do with people and have become almost like a wild dog, just hunting for their food and being chased away from livestock by farmers.
> He was rescued as a puppy with his mother and litter mates so he was not roaming himself. His mother was virtually wild and was still at the rescue centre the last I heard.
> 
> I am trying to persuade the people who rescue these dogs in Romania to neuter and release rather than ship them over to a foreign country. My poor boy must have been absolutely terrified and watching his mother's fear would not have helped him cope either
> The Spanish puppy may be completely different but I would never get another like this dog. Managing him rules our lives.


I must admit I have had doubts about the dog being from a feral family as we had feral kitten years ago and it never did become truly domesticated. This dog has been in the rescue centre for some time as well so alarm bells are ringing.


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## JanHank

Why not wait until you get home Gitty, lots of dogs needing loving owners there and they'll understand your language. :grin2:
I personally don't agree with adopting dogs from other countries.


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## patp

If alarm bells are ringing then listen to them!


Sandra, it is fairly easy to teach it. Dogs absolutely love it. It is all a game of hide and seek to them. Take a look at the website and see if there is a workshop near you. Really friendly group of people.


If you don't/can't fancy a workshop then I will try to explain the principles.


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## JanHank

patp said:


> If alarm bells are ringing then listen to them!
> Sandra, it is fairly easy to teach it. Dogs absolutely love it. It is all a game of hide and seek to them. Take a look at the website and see if there is a workshop near you. Really friendly group of people.
> If you don't/can't fancy a workshop then I will try to explain the principles.


Do you play hide and seek with him at home Pat or just at the training center?


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## Lesleykh

We've always played hiding treats with our. We often do it wen Rob brings up a cup of tea to me in the morning. We then hide some treats around the bedroom ad sit in bed watching them hunt them out. They are too clever though, and now know all our likely hiding places.
I bought some new treats this week - dried sprats. The dogs love them, but Rob says they are far too smelly to have anywhere near the bedroom!

Lesley


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## patp

I went to the workshop first. I now play the Scent Work game with him at home and on walks etc.

The basic principle is that they must really want to find the article (or piece of cheese).

The little toy is put in a tin with some dried catnip over night. Then the dog is encouraged to play with the toy. Really make it fun.

Next you walk a step or two with your dog beside you and casually drop the toy behind you. Turn and sweep your arm towards the toy and say "find it!" or a similar work like "seek". As they go to get the toy you engage in a thrilling game with it.

Walk a few more steps and toss toy behind. Repeat the arm sweep and "find it!". Thrilling game follows. Repeat until dog has "got it".

Next choose a really easy place to leave toy while dog is out of room. In plain sight is fine. Enter room with dog, do arm sweep and say "find it". Keep moving around the room but *do not* help the dog by indicating where the toy is at this stage. Just wander around and look excited by the game. If the dog finds the toy then thrilling game ensues. If dog looks puzzled then go back to stage 1 where you toss the toy behind again.

Once the dog makes a find on entering the room, with the toy in plain sight, then hide the toy in a really easy place just out of plain sight when you first walk in the room. If the dog needs help, start at one corner of the room and wave a hand at each piece of furniture along each wall until you "stumble" upon the scented toy! Thrilling game ensues.

Gradually find more challenging places to hide the toy such as under cushions, behind curtains etc.

If the dog does not/can not play toy games then use a small cube of cheese instead. The reward is instant when they find the cheese.

Toys should be washed at 60deg in between sessions and left in the catnip tin, when dry, for the next game.

Scent Work carries on with the handler learning how to do pattern searches and blind searches etc etc. The above is the very basic first step that any dog of any physical ability can do. The game can be moved to the garden where it is much more challenging because of air movement.

It is very tempting for the handler to "join in" with the search. Best to put your hands behind your back and just wander about to keep the energy flowing in the room. If your dog is close to the "find" then you can encourage him/her by saying something like "have you got it?" when you see their body language change because they have picked up the scent.

Like all training is should be fun so if the dog is looking puzzled then a bit of help and then quickly moving away is ok.
There is a dvd available and a book from the above website. Highly recommended. Make a nice Christmas present


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## JanHank

Hide and seek or `find´ is a game we have played with all our dogs, but never with food, in my opinion it teaches them to scaving.
I had a dissagreement with a Martin Ritter employee about that as one of our friends had watched one of his programs with this technique and was teaching her 2 dogs to search for food, what happened, they would clear off on their own and find anything that took their fancy from compost heaps, remains of carrion or anything else that was nice and smelly.

Our way, in the beginning the food treat is given when the toy is brought back to us, after a while no food is neccessary, for us its the same with all commands.

With these two, Motley is the searcher and Shade the pointer, he stands and looks/points in the direction the toy is:laugh:
The game is also played in the house every night, no piece here until we say `full time´


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## patp

Lesleykh said:


> We've always played hiding treats with our. We often do it wen Rob brings up a cup of tea to me in the morning. We then hide some treats around the bedroom ad sit in bed watching them hunt them out. They are too clever though, and now know all our likely hiding places.
> I bought some new treats this week - dried sprats. The dogs love them, but Rob says they are far too smelly to have anywhere near the bedroom!
> 
> Lesley


 From going on several workshops under Pam Mackinnon I have become quite adept at finding places up high or deep behind things. Pam also teaches us to make it more difficult as the workshops go on (I have just done Scent 5). The toys (or cheese) go in boxes within boxes or inside an old handbag. She uses postal sacks, too, with lots of envelopes inside (this is quite challenging). I believe, at a higher level, they do underwater searches. You do have to know about scent (she is an expert) and how it moves around things and comes through certain materials. For starters just hiding it behind curtains or cushions etc is fine.

Pam uses some little felt mice she gets from Habitat as they squash up nicely in tiny nooks and crannies. Cheese can be stuck underneath a chair seat or on the back of a door etc.

Jan, my dog won't search for a toy. He does not enjoy playing with toys enough. We have, therefore, to use cheese. Lots of dogs on the courses are the same.
I have not noticed any change in his scavenging behaviour. Some dogs are strong scavengers and some are not. Being a Romanian rescue he should be worse than most but he is not. 
We never hide cheese in the kitchen to help him understand that the cheese in the kitchen stays in the kitchen. It amazes me that we can have a cheese sandwich and he is a calm as calm can be. Get "his" cheese out and put him outside or shut him up somewhere, so that we can hide it, and he erupts  I have done Scent Work with two previous dogs, too, and not noticed any change in their scavenging behaviour. Mind you, having kept cats, we never, ever, leave any food out anywhere.


----------



## HermanHymer

aldra said:


> Im thinking when Shadow passes he will be the last of the German shepherds that we have had all our lives
> 
> We are too old now to give them what they need in terms of exercise so sadly it will be the end of an Era
> 
> Maybe a lapdog
> 
> I have an inkling for an English bull terrier :grin2:
> 
> Sandran


They are still quite a handful. My son has 2, and has outlived 2 others. (Thankfully)

How about a Frenchie. There are 3 gorgeous Frenchies on set on a SA morning TV programme. They are adorable, and I'm not a great dog-lover so that's saying something. Always sitting together, calmly, quietly, as if posed there. I want one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05t3a-MvAwQ:kiss::kiss::kiss:


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## JanHank

Oh deary deary me.
They often have breathing problems.


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## aldra

No I just love the feel of them, Jan , beautiful coats and bodies 

I love deerhounds and meant to consider one when Ben died ,but forgot and bought the hound from hell instead 

I never consider a short haired pedigree german shepherd , I hate that sloping back and the problems they cause 

Time Crufts changed their design plan 

Who knows if we will have another dog after Shadow , I hope we won’t need to decide for a few years yet, he’s nine, in good health, not withstanding his lack of intestines , cost a fortune in insurance, £60 a month, and I’m not sure why we pay it, except twice in his life we’ve drawn the full amount , so feel happy to repay that overtime 

I know , I’m the same with house insurance, they replaced our ceiling in the lounge with no argument , so I stay with them until our future payments Equal our claim, prob has over years, but

Sandra


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## JanHank

None of ours have had a sloping back, we have never gone for the show dogs.


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## aldra

I like my absolutely straight back GS 

Long haired with yeti feet

But he is now a clipped bear , time moves on and we can no longer manage to comb out the thick undercoat He no longer leaps onto the workbench , we can’t bend down 

And the yeti feet have been conquered by Clare , she’s clipped them 

But he is one cute bear 

Sandra


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## greygit

JanHank said:


> Why not wait until you get home Gitty, lots of dogs needing loving owners there and they'll understand your language. :grin2:
> I personally don't agree with adopting dogs from other countries.


 "I personally don't agree with adopting dogs from other countries." That's a weird one Jan, what's the reasoning behind that?

Bye the way the rescue centre is run by Brits so these puppies have been brought up speaking English.:wink2:


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## JanHank

What does the first part of my post say.

They bring them into Germany as well and we already have thousand here wanting homes. Clean up the mess in your own back yard first I say.
The people we know who have them from other countries mostly have mega problems with them.

Surely you know by now Gitty, I am weird >


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## aldra

I think that adopting them from other countries is because of the terrible conditions the animals are found in Jan 

Sandra


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## patp

We should address the problem within the country not just keep shipping the poor things, that have never entered a motor vehicle, hundreds of miles to a strange rescue shelter in another country.


Neuter and release, Then feed until the feral population dies out. I am sure that, if you asked the dogs, they would much prefer it.


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## JanHank

You took the words out of my mouth Pat, I´ve been out all morning so couldn´t answer Sandra.

We should stop allowing our hearts to rule our heads, donate to the charities of the countries that take these dogs in and as Pat says Neuter and release them to the life they know and understand.
We have watched a few programs about the subject and some of the rescue centers do have this policy, if they are really sick then they are humanely put to sleep.

On a brighter note, while I was in the hospital today Hans took the dogs into a special enclosed dog walking area adjacent to the hospital were dogs can safely run free. Motley found a very playful 6 year old lurcher and his old pal was Shades age so they had a word while the youngsters played.
Hans chatted with the owner, the 2 lurchers were off lead, no attempt to begger off on their own, he asked about them, both rescue dogs, the youngest is 6 years old comes from a jager/hunter in Spain who mistreated it, she´s had it for 6 months and although to start with it did its own thing now she says it wouldn´t dream of leaving her. They just need training to know what is acceptable and whats not she told him.


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## aldra

Oh for the day

When our head rules our heart

I guess the world will reverse on its axis

Sandra


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## greygit

You are so right Sandra, I took one look at this dog and that was it, I wanted her.


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## JanHank

Tell us about her Gitty, she is a lovely looking dog, do her ears stick up when she´s allert.
Have lots of fun with her, it would be nice to hear how she progresses.


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## JanHank

I have just looked at the picture on the big screen Gitty, how big is she going to get, her pads are ginormous, if thats anything to go by she´ll end up the size of o donkey. :surprise:


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## patp

She is gorgeous! Just the sort of dog I love. I have sworn no more hound types again though. Not unless we move to somewhere more suburban with no hare or deer.


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## raynipper

Friends found one just like her running along a motorway in Portugal last year. They now have it permanently in their motorhome with them.
Ray.


----------



## JanHank

aldra said:


> No I just love the feel of them, Jan , beautiful coats and bodies
> *I never consider a short haired pedigree german shepherd , I hate that sloping back and the problems they cause
> *Time Crufts changed their design plan
> Sandra


I have been looking at old photo´s sandra, isn´t it funny we click away these days taking hundreds of photo´s and think nothing of it.
Photo´s of the dogs before Shade & Motley are few and far between, but I have found some to show you not all short haired GSD´s are sloping at the back.
The last one of our two beautiful girls I just love.


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## aldra

No of course they are not Jan

But shade and even shadow would have been culled once 

Shadow because he’s all black, shade because he’s all white 

Long haired , not recognised by crufts, only I think they might be beginning to recognise them 

They are a different dog, heavy, big boned ,thick legs , straight backed

Of course some short haired are straight backed

But when did one of those get chosen in the crufts line up 

Sandra


----------



## greygit

JanHank said:


> Tell us about her Gitty, she is a lovely looking dog, do her ears stick up when she´s allert.
> Have lots of fun with her, it would be nice to hear how she progresses.


What we know so far Jan is she is around fifteen months old; one of a litter of feral puppies the rescue centre was given. Apparently all the pups grew up quite normally and then for no apparent reason they all became very nervous of strangers all around the same time……rabbis jabs? Nancy, that's her name (not too keen on that), was the best looking of the litter but also the most nervous and that's why she is probably the last to be housed. Regarding her size she isn't too big more like a very large beagle but she is also very thin so maybe more growth yet. We are going to start walking her with our whippet regularly in the hope some bonding takes place between the two dogs but it will take some organizing as although we can gain access to her in the centre (I'm going in and giving her extra food) getting a lead on her is not easy if there is no one available who she is relaxed with.

To be continued.:wink2:


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## JanHank

A tip, you change her name now for your bonding, if they still call her Nancy in the kennels thats good.
We changed the names of all our dogs, they respond to there new names very quickly.
The way we taught them their new name was with food and as you have the wippet just say their name as you give the titbit.
Hand feed her and say her name with each handful of dinner.
Am I trying to teach my Granny to suck eggs Gitty, if so I´m sorry.


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## Lesleykh

JanHank said:


> A tip, you change her name now for your bonding, if they still call her Nancy in the kennels thats good.
> We changed the names of all our dogs, they respond to there new names very quickly.
> The way we taught them their new name was with food and as you have the wippet just say their name as you give the titbit.
> Hand feed her and say her name with each handful of dinner.
> Am I trying to teach my Granny to suck eggs Gitty, if so I´m sorry.


I agree with changing the name. We fostered ours at first and 'knew' we were giving her back. In the end the placements fell through and we kept her. Hence we have the strangely named Pommie or Pom - short for Pomegranite (Wood Green makes some strange name choices!). The second foster, who actually left us for for a short time to live with her not so forever home, got a speedy name change from Princess to Betty.

My two are the tallest dogs in this group. The rest are all our dog walking buddies here on the Gog Magog downs.

Lesley


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## raynipper

Strewth Lesley.
You must have to carry a great bin liner around to 'pick-up' after that lot.

Ray.


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## JanHank

We used to have a super crowd like that on Royston heath, unfortunately there isn´t a place around here were doggy people congregate.
Thats when dogs really have fun when they can play with their own kind.


----------



## Lesleykh

JanHank said:


> We used to have a super crowd like that on Royston heath, unfortunately there isn´t a place around here were doggy people congregate.
> Thats when dogs really have fun when they can play with their own kind.


I couldn't trust mine on Royston Heath, though it looks lovely up there. The Gogs are brilliant with miles of fenced in walks and two large dog play fields. We still have problems with Betty's lurcher style play with new dogs - which is to grab then round the neck - so she's not always off lead!

Lesley


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## patp

We changed Tigan's name when he came to us from rescue. Before us he was called Harry. The dog over the road, at the time, was called Harry and we would often hear "shut up Harry!" float across the road. 
Mind you Tigan gets called a fair few variations on a common theme during the course of a typical day 


Nervousness is built in to these feral dogs GG. It is how they manage to survive. No amount of love can change that, it is in the DNA. She may well come to trust an owner but be completely fearful of everyone else. This makes living a normal life with such a dog very, very stressful.


I have just been discussing this topic with a behaviourist colleague of mine on line. She agrees with Jan Hank, and me, that they are much happier living the life they were born into. Roaming free with the ability to flee from any perceived danger. The confines of kennels, houses, cars, motorhomes and leads freak them out so that they live on adrenaline and are in a constant state of fight/flight. Take the "flight" option away and they are only left with one other


----------



## aldra

So why is my hound from hell much the same.

Raised from puppyhood 

A large family around him, which he loves 

So just what life was he been born to ?

That he reverts to killer mode around the house and the van 

And isn’t that good around dogs 

Sandra


----------



## patp

All sorts of reasons Sandra. Start with genetics, move on through missing out on the "critical" period of socialisation, which is just the first 12-14 weeks of life, then there is the (often lost in the mists of time) bad experience still remembered by the dog, plus the picking up of emotions from those around the dog.


The consultant behaviourist came yesterday. Tigan performed, true to form, by trying to drive him away with aggression even though we had arranged to meet in the road outside. We went for a little walk to calm things down but when we returned he kicked off again despite all of Dave's efforts to appear non threatening.


He agrees with me that Tigan does not cope with confinement. Being on lead, or confined to a house, vehicle or garden restricts his ability to flee from danger. He sees all strangers and some other dogs as dangerous, and so he goes into "fight" mode. People are strangers to him until he has met them umpteen times. Being off lead in wide open spaces where he feels able to "flee" makes him relax and he copes much better but this is rarely possible due to his love of hunting.


The fight/flight (there is also freeze but it is usually dropped after puppyhood) instinct is very strong in dogs. Much more so than in humans who process fears through the pre frontal cortex before deciding what to do. Dogs just react instinctively. The trick is to make sure we breed from temperamentally sound stock, and then socialise and habituate puppies into the world they will inhabit for the rest of their lives. This means that they do not feel fear when approached by strangers/other dogs or when they encounter all the other myriad of stimuli in our busy world.


I have, apparently, been doing all the right things to help Tigan get over his problem but some dogs are just too damaged by the wrong kind of breeding and upbringing to cope. Tigan has improved enormously, since we have had him but not enough to make him a happy dog. He has suggested we try, however, medicating Tigan with something to lower his anxiety levels. He has to get this approved by Tigan's vet first. I am sure she will be happy to do that, - at a distance


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## aldra

Ah well a hound from hell 

37 years of german shepherds 


So maybe we are not experienced 

Yet 

But he is completely happy 

He sussed it out

He’s a hound from hell and loves every minute of it 

He loves the fact he’s a pussy cat with family 

And a lion with strangers 

It makes his day 

And he eyes me up, the love of his life

And winks 

Sandra


----------



## Garcia

So here’s one for you dog behaviour experts.
M Y first 2 rescue dogs, about 18 months now regularly shred their bedding at night. I have never come across this before. My third is generally ok but does occasionally join in. But I cannot keep bedding in the first two’s kennels.
Foam rubber’ stuffing and textile all over their pen this morning
Garcia


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## raynipper

Thats how they like it Garcia. Leave em.

Ray.


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## patp

It is a nesting instinct. My Romanian rescue does it too. They dig down deep to keep out of the wind. You can get tough covers to go over the bed that won't rip when raked. Otherwise think about straw or newspaper as bedding. I have also used old sleeping bags in the past.


When the new foster dogs came I sent off for a memory foam bed for the oldies in order to support their creaky joints. I usually just buy an off cut from ebay. My flippin' Romanian boy is wrecking it while I await the tough cover's arrival! I hope that shredded memory foam chips is as supportive of old joints as the solid block because that is all that will be left soon!


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## Garcia

I am just about out of old blankets , towels, curtains as well as the old dog beds from my previous now deceased dogs. Everything has been destroyed, and during the night when I cannot stop them.i picked up three settee cushions in a charity market yesterday for pennies. Perfect fit in their kennels. Lasted just one night! Garden full of stuffing this morn!
One website suggested a bitter tasting dog bed sprayfrom a pet store.
Gonna see if I can find any.
Garcia


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## patp

Bitter Apple spray will only work if they chew (even then not that effective). Most dogs dig and rake their beds so a bitter taste will not deter them.


I, personally, would buy a bale or two of straw from a farmer. Dogs love it. It is cheap. It is warm. At the end of the year you can burn it or compost it and replace with new  Not sure how much hay is, out there, but that would do too. Wood shavings likewise. Shredded paper in bulk (some horse suppliers stock it).


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## aldra

I’d be tempted to give them hay , good to bury down in 

Although I guess it could be messy to clear up from the garden, could you not close them in with say a wire mesh door at night, at least it would keep it in the kennel 

Sandra


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## JanHank

Do your dogs know when they are being scolded Garcia?
Do you laugh when they do something naughty? :frown2:
The only way to stop them is to catch them in the act so I´m afraid you´ll have to stay up all night :laugh:

One of our dogs once destroyed a bedspread, we always played with her after her meal, this day she was fed and we had to go out _without her _for half an hour.
Came home to find she had been on our bed and she had invented her own game as we were not there ripping the bedspread, no good telling her off then, she would have no idea what the noise was about, so Hans brought the bedspread into the living room and played with getting her very excited so that she grabbed the spread and shook it, that was when the scolding happened and she never destroyed anything again.
Its all to do with understanding and timing.
We have just watched Kevin Richardson with lions, hyenas and panthers, if he can train wild animals we should be able to train domestic animals surely.


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## Garcia

Oh yes, they know when they’vedone Wrong....you can tell...
But dog short term memory is the subject of lots of studies....you could get a PhD from that.....
It amazes me that they can dig my veggies plot , get told off and then go back and do it again!! 

I think it happens in the early hours...they go to bed fine, but now the clocks areback they are awake before us, and that’s when the prob starts.....
I will persist...I love them all to bits, so ‘m not about to give up and put em down..but it is frustrating and annoying. And .... I’m not about to buy a NEW dog bed anytime soon!

Looked at a few web sites...but apart from setting the alarm for dawn and going out there to play with them at 5.30 am .....I see no solution....we cannot walk them more than we do.....they are off the lead as much as we can with the wildlife around here and the damned goat farmer walking past....so trying to tire them out more than they are , seems impossible....anyway...in the eves..they have 1500 sq mtrs of garden to run and chase each other in...and they do....much to the destruction of my fruit trees...so I don’t think exercise is an issue...they are just young excitable fit lively hounds.....and i’m Old and grumpy
Garcia


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## aldra

I just go with damage limitation 

Don’t know what your kennel setup is, but I’d secure them in their sleeping quarter with hay or straw to sleep on , and let them out to play when you get up 

With shadow we are lucky, he has a bladder of steel, refuses to get up until the last one gets up and even then he doesn’t go out till he’s ready, I open the door ,he surveys the garden, and turns away as if to say, did I ask to go out?

Useful in the MH 

He’s never been one for beds, although he has a king size folded feather duvet, in a cover, in our bedroom because I think it would be easier on his joints, he ignores it and prefers the wooden floor in the bathroom 

I guess they are after all just dogs 

Sandra


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## Garcia

I have individual fenced and gated pens of about 21 sq mtrs, each, with individual kennels. They sleep outside. It is mild here, so I expect they’ll stay out all year ( tho we are off to Aus in Dec so they’ll be in a kennel and that’ll be heated if it is cold, which I doubt.
They get the run of the garden in the day 1500sq mtrs. Only use the pens at night and when we are out shopping or down the bar or whatever...
They charge around and we take them out...it must surely be more exercise than most dogs get.
My neighbour has a Very Large dog and we’ ve never seen it off it’s chain in the year we’ve been here!! Cruel I think. But that’s Portugal....! Not deliberately cruel, but often thoughtless and uncaring, in my opinion. I will persist, but I’ve never come across it before, although a scan of the internet shows it is not an uncommon problem...
Straw sounds like a possible solution...I will investigate a supply.....!
Straw tossed all over their pens would not be a problem, and raked and composted, replaced with fresh from time to time....could work....
Garcia


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## patp

Garcia, they do not "know" when they have done wrong. They just look anxious when you are angry with them. We, as humans, often misread this anxious body language as "guilt" on the part of the dog. In order to feel "guilt" they would have to have a conscience. There is no evidence that dogs have a conscience. It is best to think of them as two year old children. That is about the level of understanding that they have.


Even if you were to catch them in the act they would only learn not to get caught again.


Damage limitation is the best you can do with bedding.


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## JanHank

What mental exercise do they have Garcia?
Physical is not enough.


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## aldra

Jan shadows mental exercise is remaining leader of the pack 

Or trying to, albert wins , I don’t care , I cook his meals so I’m quids in 

Fortunately family come and go constantly to distract him

And winston our grandsons dog joins us daily, a mad hound 

A walk in the park,and he’s happy in the garden 

Just as well because we do what we can 

I doubt he’d want to leave us

Sandra


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## JanHank

Surely he responds to commands during the day in the house. 
Basic training exercises made into games for instance.


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## aldra

No, I make no commands 

Merely invite him to get his breakfast his dinner , go out into the garden etc

Unless he gets there first and tells me he wants his breakfast, dinner and his after dinner chew and wants out

He does say he wants to go for a walk, he sits and looks at his lead, and mostly Albert responds and take s him 

And know we’re not perfect owners, our joints are not good, and he isn’t that good so we are unwilling to let the kids take him out

But he’s what he’s got , and would he leave us, not a chance, he loves and is loved for all his(and our faults)

Sandra


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## JanHank

In other words he is Alpha :frown2:


----------



## aldra

No Jan 

He’s possibally my alpha , or thinks he is, but I cook his food and he knows it 

And he protects me 

Not alberts alpha

But all disappears in time 

We just all have settled to a daily life

He goes out if alberts joints are up to it

If not he jostles with winston 

In our vantravels he swims and has the freedom denied at home 

He’s looking good on it 

Sandra


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## patp

The Alpha theory in the dog/human relationship has long been disproved. It does not cross species. Dogs live along side us in harmony. They learn that if they cooperate with us then their needs for food and shelter and companionship are met. Ignoring commands is not a sign of a dog being alpha, just a sign that he does not understand what we want of him, or, doing as we ask is not rewarding enough.


Just make the commands clearer and reward with good timing (immediately) and bingo the alpha dog turns into a pussy cat


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## greygit

We have the rescue dog with us for three days to see how we get on with her, so far (24 hours) and I'm in favour of adopting her. Hopefully Michelle comes to the same conclusion.


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## patp

Oooh exciting!


Most rescue centres say that it takes two weeks to assess a foster dog for rehoming. If, after two days, things are looking positive, why not ask for an extension to two weeks before you finally decide?


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## greygit

patp said:


> Oooh exciting!
> 
> Most rescue centres say that it takes two weeks to assess a foster dog for rehoming. If, after two days, things are looking positive, why not ask for an extension to two weeks before you finally decide?


We have been taking her for walks for two weeks tomorrow and have decided to adopt her….assuming we pass the vetting procedure. She is still very nervous on walks but not with us now so we are getting there, of course as the rescue centre is in a very quiet valley and this dog has spent all her life there the outside world is a very strange place. Walking her on the beach for the first time was entertaining as she obviously hadn't seen the sea before but when she realised she couldn't drink it she soon realized jumping around in it was great fun. 
The rescue centre have agreed to us fostering her until the vetting procedure completes....:grin2: To be continued.


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## patp

Keep us posted...


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## aldra

Your done for
Give up now and just accept the enivatable

She’s yours

Or more to the point

Your hers 

Sandra


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## JanHank

*Shall w shan´t we?*

Yesterday I discovered one of the nurses has a tri coloured Sheltie bitch. The nurse saw Motley on my screen and went quite unnecessary :laugh: She has a 4 year old bitch, Motley is 8 and in tact. They have been looking for a `husband´ for the bitch without success. We have never mated him or any other of our dogs.
Here is what we must mull over, should we allow him to mate and if successful have the pick of the litter.
Obviously the puppy will outlive us, If she would take the dog (by then) when we are both dead ( with a cash incentive for his / her lifelong + upkeep.
We said we would not have a puppy when Shade goes (which is getting very close) because we would outlive it and then what happens, the same problem Pat has landed herself in. It needs a lot of thought.

No report from Gitty for a few days I see.


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## aldra

You have no idea if the pup would outlive you Jan

My friend is 92 and looks well on it , moves better than me !!!!

On the other hand so many dogs in rescue centres needing a good home 

Hope your feeling better now and will soon be home, your two will be missing you 

Sandra


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## patp

Think very carefully before using your entire dog at stud, Jan. It can "switch on" their interest in sex. A friend, in the village, lost all control of her, previously well behaved, dog after he mated with a local bitch. He would run off after any bitch when out and about but turned into an escape artist when his "wife" was in season.


They kept a puppy from the litter and are having such trouble with him that they offered him to me recently. He is going through his teenage spell but is really trying their stamina and patience. They don't have your expertise in training dogs but are going to classes etc to try to get him under control.


If it were me, I would wait and see if Motley likes to be the only dog. Many dogs I have known have loved the feeling of being the centre of their owners' universe.


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## JanHank

That´s exactly what we thought Pat, get the taste (so to speak) and off he would go, I know they can detect bitches on heat from quite a distance.
We have already made up our minds. I talked to Hans a few minuets ago.
He would miss Shade, he doesn´t start to play unless Shade has his ball first, if he doesn´t he will go and fetch Shades ball give it to us and we give it to Shade only then does the game begin.
We would have to find him a friend I´m sure, but we will see. Our other dogs have always been total wrecks when there pals went, a new lease of life began when new friends were found. Lots to chew over.


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## aldra

And you will find him a friend 

But not yet

Enjoy shade, when necessary things will fall into place 

And motley will be the senior dog

Another will be junior regardless of age 

And he’ll bring the ball to motley 

It’s the circle of life jan 

And it’s a pity we don’t appear to understand it the way our dogs do 

Sandra


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## greygit

JanHank said:


> Yesterday I discovered one of the nurses has a tri coloured Sheltie bitch. The nurse saw Motley on my screen and went quite unnecessary :laugh: She has a 4 year old bitch, Motley is 8 and in tact. They have been looking for a `husband´ for the bitch without success. We have never mated him or any other of our dogs.
> Here is what we must mull over, should we allow him to mate and if successful have the pick of the litter.
> Obviously the puppy will outlive us, If she would take the dog (by then) when we are both dead ( with a cash incentive for his / her lifelong + upkeep.
> We said we would not have a puppy when Shade goes (which is getting very close) because we would outlive it and then what happens, the same problem Pat has landed herself in. It needs a lot of thought.
> 
> No report from Gitty for a few days I see.


 Update on the rescue dog saga (especially for you Jan :wink2: ) ; we have been given the OK from the vetting procedure so looks like we have another second dog. Quite a lot of paperwork involved but she already has her own EU passport so that's one less thing to worry about. She is still a little nervous in the van but in the night when she thinks we are asleep she wanders around checking out her new surroundings and especially looking at the two humans sleeping……its difficult not to start giggling. 
Re the moral bit about the dogs outlasting us, I must admit I did spend some time thinking of this for a while but I reasoned that this dog was the "prettiest" of the litter but the most nervous and that is why no one wanted her, so I reasoned that if we can socialize her and help her get over here fear of strangers, which is going well, it would not be a problem rehoming her when we pop our clogs in the not too distance future.

PS .As I type this she is asleep on my feet, which is nice as its a little nippy here in Spain this morning.:grin2:


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## JanHank

Thank you for the update Gitty, it's put a smile on my face.
She probably wonders what you are doing up on that haystack, be prepared for her to come up with you:grin2:


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## aldra

Shadow has developed an annoying habit of waking me around 5am

Not really waking me , cos I’m usually awake, but he knocks me, and thinking he needs to go out , I get up and open the door 

He stares out , turns around and walks away 

If I tell to go away he does , this morning I let him on the bed at my side , he settled and was snoring immediately 

Great I’m squashed and Albert is snoring on one side, Shadow the other

So I may as well get up 

Sandra


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## aldra

This is Winston , our Mon- Fri day border 

When he’s not tearing around the house he’s draped on the rug in front of the open fire 

He believes every home should a dog draped on a rug 

It’s funny , he rushes around claws clicking on the polished wooden floors 

Shadow has developed a skating motion with his hairy yeti paws 

It’s meal time on a Friday when he has his evening meal here

Otherwise it’s just daily breakfast


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## patp

Congratulations GG! Mind you, I would never have another nervous rescue. Next time I am getting a pup and socialising, socialising, socialising it! We did this with our last dog, a Whippet. It used to really amuse me when people would expect her to be nervous and she was entirely the opposite! No fears of anything. Would balance on the tiniest of ledges and approach all and sundry for a fuss. I see that Guide Dogs have published their latest research on socialising puppies. They are the world leaders in this kind of research as they breed all their own litters and can do proper trials on lots of litters. They start, now, with tickling the new born, blind and deaf, puppies with a soft toothbrush. Lots of gentle handling and then exposure to different surfaces to walk on, noises and all sorts of different people all during the first few weeks of life. That is why Guide Dogs are so bombproof.


Now I need help in finding my ideal breed. When I was looking for my Whippet it took me ages to track down a good breeder who did not breed for the show ring. I think this ruins so many dogs as they breed for fashion not health and temperament. I won't have another hound as the Whippet and previous lurchers were such hunters and we have hares around here! No terriers for the same reason.
Medium sized, short (ish) coat about sums up our requirements. Top of the list at the moment is a Working Cocker Spaniel as they are still bred to work. I quite like Corgis. Like the sound of a German Pinscher but know nothing about them. Have a feeling they can be a little terrier like?
Will take ages to find the right breed and then even longer to research the breeders.


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## aldra

I’d never have another dog full stop 

The hound from hell is my baby 

We really understand each other 

But it doesn’t make him less than a hound from hell 

He needs watching every step of the way 

And the fact he turns round and winks at me 

Doesn’t do it 

He’s a gentle hound until he’s not , and a 8 stone hound who doesn’t like you ?

And in 9 yrs , I’ve never found out why 

What ticks his boxes outside family I don’t know 

But he does, wheelchairs he likes , the people in them he likes ,he loves to meet them and they him 

Around the van he hates everyone 

Although he loved little Ellie , and thereforeTuggy 

But unfortunately Tuggy no longer seems to love us 

Hey tuggy ignore us and let the friendship between shadow and Ellie continue 

But he seems to get on well with winston 

Puts up with a wild running hound until he doesn’t

And winston runs faster to avoid him 

But hey he’s still in one piece 

Sandra


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## raynipper

More dogs taking over................................
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle...e-harry/ar-BBF585g?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp

Ray.


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## aldra

It’s true Ray

They take over

If I didn’t the have the hound , may consider getting rid of the MH 

It’s pot luck what we see , how far to walk 

Is it worth chancing it ?

If I’m stuck on a site, yes I enjoy cooking , enjoy wine 

But it’s not as big as my home or garden 

And I enjoy cooking and wine there too

True the hound can swim

But neither does he stink 

Or cost us close on £40

To redress him to a sweet smelling hound from hell 

I’m getting old, older because I’m struggling with arthritic disease 

But hey it isn’t affecting my mind

Sandra


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## greygit

Well, we have adopted the dog and have her passport now but I have a query about the rabies renewal date; the renewal is due 31/03/2018 we will be going through pet passport around the first week of March 2018 does anyone think we will have a problem with the renewal date so close to our entry back to the UK. I did think of getting her renewal done here in Spain but that would mean we would have to repeat it every year whereas if we get it done in the UK the renewal is ever three years.


Pictures are of her off the lead ( for the first time) on the beach yesterday playing with our whippet, she is still very nervous but we are getting there.


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## patp

If the vaccine is in date then she can travel. They cannot say that "it is nearly due for a booster". Theoretically you could travel with he on 31st. Do not miss the actual booster date though as this invalidates the passport and you have to start over again. A ridiculous rule because vaccines fade they do not cut off on the booster date! You are right to get her vaccine done in uk where it lasts for 3 years.


She is beautiful! Easy to understand why you fell for her


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## raynipper

OK you dog lovers. I like em but not in my house except one..

Maybe someone can answer me this?
We have some really good life long friends who used to visit us regularly. But they got a dog a couple of years ago and that has curtailed their travels.
Now they have asked to come visit again and we would dearly love them to come but we don't want their dog. Now I know this is going to hurt as every picture and video sent in the last two years has been dog centre stage and glowing reports.
The dog has some diabolical habits as it's a Spanish Water Dog and 'wet' is it's middle name.

How do I let them know they are so very welcome but we don't want the dog?
Apart from just coming out and saying so.

Ray.


----------



## nicholsong

raynipper said:


> OK you dog lovers. I like em but not in my house except one..
> 
> Maybe someone can answer me this?
> We have some really good life long friends who used to visit us regularly. But they got a dog a couple of years ago and that has curtailed their travels.
> Now they have asked to come visit again and we would dearly love them to come but we don't want their dog. Now I know this is going to hurt as every picture and video sent in the last two years has been dog centre stage and glowing reports.
> The dog has some diabolical habits as it's a Spanish Water Dog and 'wet' is it's middle name.
> 
> *How do I let them know they are so very welcome but we don't want the dog?*
> Apart from just coming out and saying so.
> 
> Ray.


Send them a brochure for your nearest kennels?:wink2::grin2:


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## patp

Develop an allergy?
They will say that Spanish Water Dogs are hypoallergenic but no dog can be totally clean and hypoallergenic. It is to do with the dander in their skin. Most people might not react to them but you could be the exception?


Develop a fear of dogs? Hmm, then they will tell you that their dog is the kindest, sweetest little angel in the whole wide world.


Tell them there is a terrible disease, in your area, striking dead/making ill all the visiting dogs? Local dogs seem, funnily enough, immune to it.


You might just have to 'fess up and say that you are not up to it.


I, as a dog owner, would never foist my dog on people who do not like dogs. Last Christmas we crated our dog, at our daughters house, when her in-laws visited. They do not like dogs. Our dog does not like people, and so would have avoided them, but why spoil their Christmas when the dog could rest in his crate, during their visit, with a toy or some food to distract him?


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## raynipper

Thanks Pat n Jeff.
I like dogs.!!!!! In fact I like all animals and they know it. I love making a fuss of all pets.
But we have resisted having a dog in our house for many years now after a bad experience with a friends old dog.
Our friends know we love their animals and always make a great fuss over them at their house.
But I really don't want to upset or alienate them.

Ray.


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## JanHank

How long is the visit for Ray?

Personally if I _know_ people don´t want my dogs I don´t go, but would have t be told in advance of course.
Did you invite them if so you already knew they had the dog, or have they invited themselves which makes it different?

The only thing you could say that I can think of is "We would love to see you, but what will you do with the dog?" and take it from there.


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## raynipper

No Jan.
They were annual visitors before they got the dog. Usually for two weeks. We loved having them and we also visited them in UK.
But the last time we visited their home the dog was young and life had changed. But thats their choice. Ours is not to have it.

Ray.


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## rayrecrok

In the past we had an Alsatian and Golden retriever at home, unfortunately we eventually lost them both starting with the retriever, eventually we got a spaniel a totally daft lump exactly like any Cocker Spaniel ever born and everybody loved her..

My diving mate of many years started visiting us again. One night we both went out boozing when he said, "I never came up when you had the Alsatian as I was terrified of it", so your soft as a brush dog to you, does not always appear that way to others!...

So. Now with an Alsatian, Rottweiler, St Bernard, St Bernard Newfoundland cross a good 3ft 6inches to the shoulder and our Cocker Spaniel that rules all the big dogs, might put a few people off.. 

Tough!.

ray.


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## patp

raynipper said:


> No Jan.
> They were annual visitors before they got the dog. Usually for two weeks. We loved having them and we also visited them in UK.
> But the last time we visited their home the dog was young and life had changed. But thats their choice. Ours is not to have it.
> 
> Ray.


Are you remembering the dog as it was the last time you visited Ray? Is that is what is putting you off? If it was young then could it have changed by now? Might it be a nice calm, lovable dog now? Of course it will still be a dog and if that is what is putting you off then you are quite entitled to not want it in your home.

My brother is terrified of dogs and our last dog was very unreliable with strangers. John lives in the States and only visits once per year. We paid for him to stay in local bed and breakfast so that he could relax when wandering the house in the early hours etc. We then only had to confine the dog for the short spells he spent in our house. Until we forgot one day and entered the garden only for Tigan to come flying out of the house and bite him.


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## raynipper

No Jan, the recent pics and videos make me want to distance from it.

Ray.


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## aldra

Personally I see no reason why there should be expectation that a dog is included in any invite 

Any one who stays with us of course has to expect to be sharing the house with shadow, it’s his home too

I’d just be honest Geoff and say you would love to have them but you can’t extend that welcome to their dog, are there any kennels near ?

Friends should understand that, we don’t all like dogs in our homes and there is no reason why we should 

Sandra


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## raynipper

Absolutely Sandra.
It's going to have to be that way. 

Ray.


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## Lesleykh

I would imagine most of us dog owners wouldn't assume our dogs are invited. I don't even assume that with my own sisters and both of them have dogs, but theirs are small and mine are large, and I have 2 of them, so I know mostly they won't be welcome.

Luckily, I have someone who will look after my dogs, and I will look after hers (all 3 of them). Dog owners need to cultivate fiends like that! Or be prepared to fork out for kennels. There will always be events - weddings, family parties etc - where dogs can't go.

They'll either have something set up for their dog, or they won't visit. Like you say, the dog is their life-style choice, and so I'm sure they will be fine with all the problems that brings. They'll still see far more more positives for their lives in owning a dog if they're anything like us!

Lesley


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## raynipper

Yes it's difficult and delicate as we all have passions we focus on. One or two friends can't stand me mentioning motorhomes but our lives don't revolve around a van now. 
But it would be difficult to say that I didn't want to keep hearing about their grandchild, animal, vehicle, relatives, etc. If thats their passion.

Ray.


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## JanHank

Lesleykh said:


> *There will always be events - weddings, family parties etc - where dogs can't go.*
> 
> Lesley


I smiled when I read that Leslie, I have my permanent dog sitter, Hans hates wedding, parties or any other gathering where there are more that half a dozen people so I used to go, he stayed home.
No worries these days, we both stay home. :grin2:


----------



## nicholsong

aldra said:


> Personally I see no reason why there should be expectation that a dog is included in any invite
> 
> Any one who stays with us of course has to expect to be sharing the house with shadow, it's his home too
> 
> *I'd just be honest Geoff and say you would love to have them but you can't extend that welcome to their dog, are there any kennels near ?*
> 
> Friends should understand that, we don't all like dogs in our homes and there is no reason why we should
> 
> Sandra


Sandra

My post was only a 'tongue-in-cheek' answer to 'raynippers' question about how to tell guests one does not want their dog visiting. It was not about a dog visiting us.

Geoff


----------



## raynipper

Sadly problem solved. No dog they don't come.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank

Love me love my dog, shame Ray, but that's how it would be for us. What if it had been sticky fingered snivelling kids, would they have been accepted?


----------



## raynipper

JanHank said:


> Love me love my dog, shame Ray, but that's how it would be for us. What if it had been sticky fingered snivelling kids, would they have been accepted?


No.!

Ray.


----------



## rayrecrok

raynipper said:


> No.!
> 
> Ray.


When do we get to "Bah humbug"...

ray.


----------



## JanHank

rayrecrok said:


> When do we get to "Bah humbug"...
> 
> ray.


Luckily we are all different Ray, you and I love dogs thats obvious, but I don´t like a lot of the music you like >
Its easy for me to not listen to the music, but in this day and age its difficult not to be were dogs are if you get my drift.

That time of year is rapidly approaching and I think Ray has already started his "Bah humbuging." haven´t you Ray?


----------



## raynipper

Yes, been there and already wearing the hat. After all if I can have "The Festive Season" stuffed up my nose for two whole months, I can wear the hat.
We don't go on about any other celebration or event for two months, do we.?

Ray.


----------



## rayrecrok

raynipper said:


> Yes, been there and already wearing the hat. After all if I can have "The Festive Season" stuffed up my nose for two whole months, I can wear the hat.
> We don't go on about any other celebration or event for two months, do we.?
> 
> Ray.


Well we can start celebrating my birthday, or paying my subs on here in a week or so:wink2:.

ray.


----------



## greygit

raynipper said:


> Sadly problem solved. No dog they don't come.
> 
> Ray.


 Serves you right you miserable old sod. :wink2:


----------



## patp

This is where motorhomes and caravans are so useful. We can visit non doggy friends and leave the dog in the van while we socialise. Then we have a wonderful excuse of "must go as the dog will need a wee"


----------



## JanHank

raynipper said:


> Yes, been there and already wearing the hat. After all if I can have "The Festive Season" stuffed up my nose for two whole months, I can wear the hat.
> We don't go on about any other celebration or event for two months, do we.?
> 
> Ray.


fully behind you with that one Ray.

Can I have the pattern for the hat ? >


----------



## raynipper

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bah-Humb...953805?hash=item1c9866bb8d:g:4e8AAOSwy~BaEJgX

Ray.


----------



## Lesleykh

raynipper said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bah-Humb...953805?hash=item1c9866bb8d:g:4e8AAOSwy~BaEJgX
> 
> Ray.


Just the hat for my husband!

Lesley


----------



## aldra

Well as you guess 

I’m not there

Of course I no longer go out much , but I like to watch the Christmas adverts 

And my Christmas will be centred around family 

The Christmas Day meal, the family party , when alberts brothers and their families join us 

It’s a good night 

Presents are just immediate family , kids and grandkids and we give money , distribute some of their inheritance 

And a few to friends 

I now longer want anything , the kids and grandkids and friends will still buy , but now they understand it should be just a token 

It’s not a time for me of receiving , I’ve recieved much more than I could ever need in my life 

Just my family around me , al their faults and their special gifts 

Carried on through their kids 

A pain in the neck ?

Of course they are , and their kids continue the tradition 

But it’s a tradition I know and love

So a bit early as I don’t do Christmas before December 

So happy Christmas preparations 

Just remember why you are doing it 

A Christ child

A family 

A midwinter celebration 

Remember to give to those who for whatever reason would love to celebrate but can’t afford to

After all that’s the Christmas, midwinter , family celebration message 

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

greygit said:


> Well, we have adopted the dog and have her passport now but I have a query about the rabies renewal date; the renewal is due 31/03/2018 we will be going through pet passport around the first week of March 2018 does anyone think we will have a problem with the renewal date so close to our entry back to the UK. I did think of getting her renewal done here in Spain but that would mean we would have to repeat it every year whereas if we get it done in the UK the renewal is ever three years.
> 
> Pictures are of her off the lead ( for the first time) on the beach yesterday playing with our whippet, she is still very nervous but we are getting there.


Has she got a new name Gitty, can't possibly call her Her, :frown2:


----------



## greygit

JanHank said:


> Has she got a new name Gitty, can't possibly call her Her, :frown2:


 Well to be honest I mostly call her Nancy Pants as she is so nervous…..ants in your pants…….but each day she is a little better. Yesterday walking her across the road to take her to the beach we met a disabled person in a wheel chair that was a totally frightening experience for her. 
Bye the way she has taken to sleeping across my feet at night so you were right. :frown2:


----------



## patp

Love Nancy as a name


----------



## Lesleykh

Nancy is a lovely name - reminds me of 'Oliver' and now I'm humming 'As long as he needs me'. I'm also humming 'All I want is a room somewhere' - Different musical, same East End accent though.

Lesley


----------



## aldra

I love Nancy too

I never actually chose shadows name 

Others did 

But he is my shadow , unless he’s in independent mode 

What would I have called him?

No idea now, he’s been Shadow for so long 

But his pedigree name, midnight ebony , I love 

Sandra


----------



## Lesleykh

Oh, don't get me going on choosing names. We changed Betty's (she was Princess), having learnt our lesson by starting to train our 4 month foster dog using her rescue kennel name - Pomegranate. Since her placements subsequently didn't happen and we ended up adopting her, we now have the oddly named Pommie or Pom.

Lesley


----------



## patp

Rescue centres have a lot to answer for sometimes (Pomegranate) !


We changed Tigan's (Romanian for Gypsy) from Harry when he came to us. The dog over the road was called Harry and they were constantly shouting out "Harry! Shut Up!" as it was kennelled outside as a guard dog. Thought it might confuse our new dog to keep hearing his name. Strangely, our neighbours called their first baby Henry and then went on to have twins, one of which is called Harry! The original Harry was dead by this time but we still thought it strange.


----------



## JanHank

Only kept one rescue dogs name, that was Reece, we changed the rest.
Kristel came with the name Tachi, so named to make _Hitachi _
Our first Motley (no.1) arrived as Blue, he was also a Blue Merle Sheltie
and thats the only former names of the dogs Hans and I can remember.
Shade, this Motley and Yuni, (Kristels pal, another white GSD bitch) all came with other names but we can´t remember what they were.

The name Nancy can be changed to suit what you want to say to her


----------



## aldra

Ours were Oden 

Oden 2, he was worth naming twice

Oliver

Ben 

And shadow 

Of course others came before

Sandra


----------



## greygit

Our last two rescued dogs were named Mouse, a very large greyhound and Sky a very beefy and aggressive bull lurcher so perhaps this time with a very pretty and non-aggressive dog the name Nancy is more fitting so perhaps we will keep it.


She is now running off the lead now and charging along the beaches with the whippet pacing her, it’s as if the exercise is making her more relaxed, she is still wary of strangers but not to the extent she was and she is a lot more at ease in the van now…..thank goodness.


----------



## greygit

Question, is it common for dogs to be terrified of children?
The reason I ask is Nancy (keeping the name) is absolutely terrified of some Spanish children who are camping with their parents opposite to us and although having owned quite a few dogs over the years I have never seen it to this extent..........she has got lot more relaxed with adults though.:smile2:


----------



## JanHank

When Shade arrived he was frightened of children Gitty, not petrified, but didn´t like them at all.

Whats happening with the children, are they all wanting to come and see her at once?


----------



## patp

It is as common as any other anxiety. It stems from what the puppy sees during its "critical" period of socialisation. This is up to the age of 12-14 weeks. After that time the nerves in the brain myleanate sp? and cease to be receptive to new stimuli. In the wild puppies would become familiar with the immediate pack and environment and be fearful of all other things it encountered. A good survival instinct. So, if Nancy was not socialised with children during her critical period, she may never accept them as part of her "safe" environment.


It is possible to address the problem but it takes careful handling. In the case of children it would never be safe to assume that a dog unsocialised with them, as a very young puppy, is safe. It is why rescue centres never let strays go to homes with young children. Older children recognise a fearful dog and, hopefully, respect it. Young children also behave very erratically. Toddlers are particularly scary to a poorly socialised dog and it is why so many suffer bites from "family" dogs.


If you wanted to address the problem to make life a bit more comfortable for both her and her new family you could do some very gentle introductions to children.


Choose a biddable child.
Sit them down, preferably on the floor (to make them smaller) and give them something to do that does not involve looking at the dog.
Let Nancy approach in her own time. Allow her to move away each and every time she wants to. It is essential that a dog feels it has an escape route. If safe to do so have Nancy off lead. Dogs feel much more relaxed with their flight option open to them.
Dogs learn much more readily when they are not anxious.
Repeat as often as you can arrange it.
As soon as Nancy starts to relax offer her high value food rewards for any "brave" behaviour she displays. An approach gets her a reward. A retreat gets nothing.
Over time allow the child to change position, move, talk, laugh while rewarding brave behaviour from Nancy and ignoring fearful responses.


Once Nancy is happy around that child, choose another, similar child and repeat (this should not take as long as the first time).
Introduce another child etc.


When she is happy with those, single, children then introduce them in two's then three's etc.


When encountering children not under your control (!) allow Nancy to move away to her "safe distance" and watch them. Only when she is relaxed will she be able to learn anything so don't bother if she can't move far enough away. Try to have her off lead. 
Avoid all situations where she may feel trapped near children. This means enclosed spaces and on lead situations. It will set her back a long way if she meets some boisterous children and cannot retreat to a safe place. Never allow children to approach her. Just be rude and tell them she bites. Be prepared to enforce the rule (I once had to put a restraining hand on a man's chest to prevent my rescue dog biting him after telling him, repeatedly, not to approach the dog any closer!) They all say "it's ok I am a dog lover" my answer is - well you should know better then! You could ask receptive children to sit down and see if she will approach. Be prepared to admit defeat (or celebrate victory  )


The more you can do the above and make every encounter with children a good one the more Nancy may relax. Some dogs recover from poor socialisation other never do 


With the Spanish children playing nearby just make sure she can always retreat to a safe haven that is completely child free.


----------



## jiwawa

What an excellent response Pat!

If I was getting a dog I'd be coming to you for advice!


----------



## aldra

Well maybe you could sort out Shadow, Pat 

He adores all the grandkids , 10 of them 

Any of their friends just need to sit down and be introduced once, then they are counted as friends 

Same with adults 

Out he’s very wary of kids 

This dog was socialised 

Seems he’s forgotten

Sandra


----------



## patp

They don't forget socialisation, Sandra. Some dogs are naturally just more suspicious of strangers than others. GSD's would be a breed that was more suspicious than others. It is why they got the reputation for being such good guard dogs. People have to earn the trust of a GSD.
Even within a breed genetics play a part. Golden Retrievers have a wonderful reputation for being calm and friendly. I saw some of the most horrific attacks on owners inflicted, not by GSDs or Rottweilers, but by Golden Retrievers. When I made some enquiries into the breed it turned out that a popular sire was to blame for the dodgy temperament. Once it got around that he, and his progeny, were to be avoided, the incidents of attacks reduced.
Gundogs, generally, make such good pets because they were bred for generations to be very people friendly. This was because gamekeepers bred and raised them but they were expected to "work" for the Lord of the Manor, or his guests, when he wanted a day's shooting. He would have been, sometimes, a virtual stranger to the dog but the dog would have been bred to work for everybody. Not good guard dogs though


----------



## raynipper

We are now even more determined NOT to have another dog after staying with family and their Spaniel.!
OK it's not the dogs fault but it's a totally uncontrollable nightmare that stinks house, car, clothes, etc.
We have to visit in old clothes and only change them after we leave. But leaving brings more chaos to get away.

Ray.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

So right Ray, we have a wonderful friend, loves cats n dogs to bits, but we rarely visit due to the smell, house is clean as a pin, as is she, but it is unbearable, of course when you live with it you don't notice it like visitors do.


----------



## greygit

That's one of the reasons we like site hounds as they are usually less smelly. I must admit I gave Nancy a good sniff when I met her.......Nancy is our new dog in case you have forgotten:grin2:.


----------



## patp

I wonder why they smell so much? In my experience if dogs are fed good food, exercised properly (not just a walk round the block or a ball throwing session) and groomed most dogs do not smell. Waxy ears sometimes give off a terrible pong. They just need cleaning. Some male dogs pee on their legs. They just need cleaning. Simples.


As you say, Ray, bad behaviour is not the fault of the dog.


Friends of ours allowed their spaniel to be used at stud. He is now bitch obsessed. They accepted the gift of a puppy from the litter even though they were not planning on getting a puppy! This "puppy" is now a juvenile delinquent. All they do is shut him out in the garden or, if they are outside, shut it in the house! They cannot cope with the bad behaviour. If I suggest how they could address his behaviour they look at me as if I am mad because they do not want to change their behaviour to one that would engage with the dog and mean they had more control.


----------



## JanHank

We`ve had this conversation more than once about dogs and homes smelling. 

Dog bedding that´s not regularly washed & vacuum cleaner not being emptied after a couple of cleans ( I also spray dry deodorant in my hoover bags before I use them.)

Every home has its own smell, but mostly not overpowering. I bet car mechanics homes smell of oil, people who smoke also smell, etc. etc. lay off the dog owners Raymond. Or else  I could get ruffty tuffty.


----------



## raynipper

Jus sayin as it is Jan.
We had a dog 50 years ago for 14 years and it shaped our kids and holidays. Our house might have had an odor of Lab but he was a very short haired lab/dane cross and loved getting toweled and hoovered. In fact so much so that he would get wet just to get toweled and vaced again.

But this poor Spaniel has our sympathy. Yes I used to smoke and now can't stand the smell. 

Ray.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

JanHank said:


> We`ve had this conversation more than once about dogs and homes smelling.
> 
> Dog bedding that´s not regularly washed & vacuum cleaner not being emptied after a couple of cleans ( I also spray dry deodorant in my hoover bags before I use them.)
> 
> Every home has its own smell, but mostly not overpowering. I bet car mechanics homes smell of oil, people who smoke also smell, etc. etc. lay off the dog owners Raymond. Or else  I could get ruffty tuffty.


I have to agree, I think this one is largely down to volume, that is a lot of dogs to take care of for anyone, she takes them in if abandoned, some in a terrible state.

Yes Mucky necks house smell of oil sometimes, smokers deffo glad I stopped 10 years ago.


----------



## aldra

Don’t think my house smells of dog

He doesn’t have a bed, well he does, a feather duvet in our bedroom which he totally ignores, prefering the wood floored landing , most of my floors are wooden, the carpets I hoover most days 

Sometimes he whiffs depending where he’s been swimming

Mostly when we are away in the van 

But then he’s booked in for a bath and clip at the beauty parlour the minute we return 

In my job as a social worker I’ve been in some seriously smelly houses, and they didn’t all have dogs !!!

Sandra


----------



## greygit

A quick update on Nancy the Spanish dog we have adopted; she is still a little nervous of strangers but not to the extent she was and she has put on weight and muscle mass on her hind quarters due to all the running on the beaches with the whippet. One amusing charaistic she has developed over the last few weeks is if anyone approaches the van she growls very deeply and barks just once. Only five more weeks here now then the journey home, hopefully there won't be a problem with her Spanish pet passport ,I also wonder what she will think of our Forest and our wonderful weather.......hopefully it won't be too cold in March.:smile2:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

They come with a fur coat GG, just needs to acclimatise and she'll be fine.


----------



## patp

So glad that Nancy has found you GG. Lets hope that she enjoys the journey and the new climate. If you have a Whippet then you will know all about dog clothing, I expect, but Equafleece jumpers are excellent for dogs that feel the cold.

https://www.equafleece.co.uk/dogs/fleece/dog-jumper


----------



## greygit

I think your right Kev as she still loves to run into the sea even on cold mornings so I don't think she will be too worred about cool conditions. 

Pat you are right re. coats we have quite a few stored away.0


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

Grr, forgot it was a whippet GG, they shiver on the warmest of days.








give it to the dog


----------



## greygit

When it's too hot outdoors here we go inside but not the whippet.


----------



## KeithChesterfield

We 'inherited' a dog when we first got married and have had a succession of dogs, and some cats, ever since.

The dog we have now has been with us wherever we've gone in the MH and he still does.

But in the last five years he's been epileptic and has needed medication.

This combination of tablets now costs around £160 a month and with his 'special' dog food, occasional blood tests and Vet consultations it's now costing well over £200 a month and will continue until he passes away.

Although most dogs cost their owners considerably less than we now pay there are some breeds that will need treatment well before they reach their dotage and getting a dog that you are happy with, and the dog with you, can occasionally be a problem.

This year we saw a guy with two very large Greyhounds in his MH, around 6m, and I dread to think how little room there was to move around with the two dogs and how claustrophobic it must be when the doors are shut for the night.

There are good and bad points with MHs and dogs (Pet Passport and extra charges to take them abroad, restricting access to places of interest you might want to visit and high temperatures abroad causing problems) but once you've got the dog/s there's no turning back and you're stuck with them for better or worse - something like being married ?


:grin2: :grin2: :grin2: :grin2:


----------



## 747

greygit said:


> When it's too hot outdoors here we go inside but not the whippet.


It's bad for a dog to be in the Sun too much, particularly a very pale dog. Certain types should have Sun cream rubbed on their ears to protect them. My Whippets would alternate between Sun and shade and there was always plenty of water for them to drink.


----------



## raynipper

Is that your 'tribe' of six dogs 747? How do you all fit in the van?

Ray.


----------



## 747

raynipper said:


> Is that your 'tribe' of six dogs 747? How do you all fit in the van?
> 
> Ray.


Was my tribe Ray, that photo is from 2011 and sadly we are down to 1 Whippet and one Pug, plus the Jack Russell bitch we took in from our Daughter because her JR male was fighting with her. We needed a Tag axle van to accommodate them all but it never felt crowded. Actually, we looked to downsize 3 years ago but thought they were all too pokey so we bought another Tag. :smile2:


----------



## JanHank

Somehow I lost this thread.
I was about to ask how Nancy was doing Gitty and saw your report.
We have been back twice with German passports, no problem so I´m sure your passports from Spain will be OK.


----------



## greygit

JanHank said:


> Somehow I lost this thread.
> I was about to ask how Nancy was doing Gitty and saw your report.
> We have been back twice with German passports, no problem so I´m sure your passports from Spain will be OK.


Hope your right Jan it's just that over the years we have witnessed quite a few dog owners turned away at the dog check in due to some minor fault a vet has made in the paperwork. Mind you the rabbis inoculations shouldn't be a problem as the Spanish insist on a yearly jab whereas the Brits only want it done every three years........fingers crossed it all goes well as I know very little about pet passports.:serious:


----------



## patp

The British vets use Nobivac for the rabies jab and the manufacturer states that boosters are only needed every three years. It my be the Spanish vets us a different vaccine? (That's one in the eye for all those that think vets rip them off.)


One of the common vet errors is to stamp he passport in black ink. This is not allowed. The colour must be any colour BUT black. I presume this is to prevent copying?


Even though the worming and tick treatment regime has been loosened it is still best, for the dog's sake, and for the sake of all the dogs in Britain, to worm and treat our dogs for ticks.


Keith, I take your point about the responsibility of treating the dog for its ailments throughout its natural life. Due to a tragedy in our village we took on three dogs from one household to add to our existing dog. Two of the new dogs were elderly with untreated health problems. We are left with just one of the existing three, having found good homes for the other two. Esther has sever spondylosis (arthritis of the spine) and noise phobia. Her diagnosis and treatment has run into four figures already. I have managed to get her insured but not for her pre existing conditions  
I am a firm believer that we do what we can to the best of our ability to give them the best quality of life.


----------



## erneboy

Don't let them use black stamps on the vaccine pages GG. The UK insists that it must be any colour other than black. Many vets in Spain do not know that. We always ask what colour the stamp will be before letting them treat the dogs. We got a telling off for it at Calais once though eventually they did let us pass.

I put a thread on here last year about it as the local vet here in Spain was insisting that black was fine. I remembered having read about it and so researched it and it isn't. Though typically it seems to be only the UK which stipulates this requirement. A good example of the UK taking EU regulations and making them more onerous.


----------



## greygit

Just checked Nancy's passport and thank goodness all stamps are blue.


----------



## greygit

Back in the UK now and no problem at the pet passport thingy although the French vet stamped both passports with a black stamp. Nancy loves the snow although she likes to come back into the house to warm up regularly.:smile2:


----------



## patp

Glad you are safely back and that Nancy is coping with the snow


----------



## raynipper

We have just with sadness said farewell to the sharpest little Jack Russell 'lady' that's been here a while. We will miss her (and owners). But are determined not to take on another pet.

Ray.


----------



## erneboy

greygit said:


> Back in the UK now and no problem at the pet passport thingy although the French vet stamped both passports with a black stamp. Nancy loves the snow although she likes to come back into the house to warm up regularly.:smile2:


Customs stamps colours aren't specified in the UK rules. It's the veterinary stamp colours which the UK rules say must be an colour other than black.


----------



## erneboy

Page 18, the first line says entries, written presumably, must be in any colour other than black. Though stamps are also entries I'd suggest.

http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/external-operations-admin/library/documents/exports/ET139.pdf see 5.1 (reproduced below) in that document, which refers only to the stamp used when the document is issued. I'll keep looking for the other reference which covers stamps authenticating vaccinations.

"5.1 Where required, the passport should be stamped and signed by an Official Veterinarian (OV) (OCQ(V)CA
Listed) authorised by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Scottish Government or the
ET139 (Rev. 11/15)
Welsh Government as an Official Veterinarian (OV) for export purposes. The passport must be signed and
stamped with the OV stamp in any ink colour other than black."

Top of page 18 here too: http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/external-operations-admin/library/documents/exports/ET141_v1.pdf
Says that entries in PPs should be in any colour other than black. Presumably that refers to the colour of ink used in a pen, but perhaps it could be inferred to include stamped information since they are also entries. I'll keep looking.

It's not very clear though the PP Control people told us off for having a black vet stamp a few years back when we checked in at Calais. They discussed it and in the end decided to let us travel.

I can't find any reference which specifically mentions stamp colour. Just entries in general.


----------



## greygit

erneboy said:


> Customs stamps colours aren't specified in the UK rules. It's the veterinary stamp colours which the UK rules say must be an colour other than black.


It would appear the French vets are not aware of this but no one at pet control complained.


----------



## erneboy

It's quite possible that the PP Control people at Calais who cautioned us about it were wrong. The word entries as I've quoted above is unclear, I surmise it could mean any entry or just hand written entries. They'll interpret it as they like.


----------



## aldra

Well never have we been refused to bring back the hound from hell

Life can be so unfair >

Sandra


----------



## greygit

aldra said:


> Well never have we been refused to bring back the hound from hell
> 
> Life can be so unfair >
> 
> Sandra


As if!


----------



## aldra

“As if “ as in Ken Dod 

With his puppet 

And believe me this hound from hell 

Would whip his head round 

And say ..as if , did you mean as if 

As if what?

Sandra


----------



## greygit

aldra said:


> "As if " as in Ken Dod
> 
> With his puppet
> 
> And believe me this hound from hell
> 
> Would whip his head round
> 
> And say ..as if , did you mean as if
> 
> As if what?
> 
> Sandra


It sounded as if you were disapointed that they allowed your lamb back into the country.


----------



## aldra

You all know 

I’m devoted to this hound

Believe me you would need to be devoted 

A hound from hell on all our travels 

He would attack anyone who approaches the van

And sit on the knee of one introduced 

Which isn’t that good really

As he weighs 8 stone 

So it isn’t good anyway 

But many have met him 

And he is soft giant 

Until he’s not 

Sandra


----------



## greygit

erneboy said:


> It's quite possible that the PP Control people at Calais who cautioned us about it were wrong. The word entries as I've quoted above is unclear, I surmise it could mean any entry or just hand written entries. They'll interpret it as they like.


 We took our new dog to the vet today for a rabbis boost, while there I asked her what colour the stamps should be on the passport and she said we are encouraged not to use black and she never uses it but she recognizes some of the other vets in the practice do........make of that what you will.:frown2:


----------



## aldra

Can’t find his passport at the moment

But intrigued to look at the stamps 

As I said never have we had a problem 

Now either they weigh him up and pass him through as quickly as they can regardless of the colour 

Or he’s on his charming mood and Is fawning all over them 

In which case they don’t care 

I always remember when they had to scan the chip , rather than us 

Shadow had gone through , a typical hound from hell

And a young guy came to scan him , obviously scared, he’d drawn the short straw 

Your fine we said , and even in those few minutes he fell in love 

So apparently did shadow 

Only the music was missing as those two gazed into each other’s eyes 

Love at first sight 

Sandra


----------



## patp

I have worked in a veterinary surgery where they issue these passports and they are ALWAYS stamped in red or blue, never black. It is al to do with preventing copying.


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## greygit

Problem with Nancy's passport now. We had to leave the passport with the vet after her booster jab as there were no clear window stickers left on the passport as the Spanish vets had used them all up.......these little clear stickers are attached over the rabbis inoculation label to prevent tampering I suppose. Anyway the vet is now waiting to hear back from I assume Derfra. Vet did say that if there is a problem with the Spanish passport they could issue a British one but I would prefere her original one if possible.:frown2:


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## patp

Oh no! Mind you, better to find out now than further down the line.


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## greygit

Passport hopefully sorted now ,apparently it wasn't just the see through little stickers that were worring the vet but an extra column that is not presant on the Brit passports but she was told she could just leave it blank.......fingers crossed and all that.:frown2:


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## greygit

Just been reading about this terrible Alabama Foot Rot disease and steps to take to lessen the risks, the main one seems to be to avoid muddy conditions, here in the Forest of Dean its muddy everywhere!:frown2:


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## JanHank

greygit said:


> Just been reading about this terrible *Alabama Foot Rot* disease and steps to take to lessen the risks, the main one seems to be to avoid muddy conditions, here in the Forest of Dean its muddy everywhere!:frown2:


What made you look it up Gitty, is there an outbreak in England? 
I have never heard of it.

By the way, I have never spotted any mistakes in your posts, you've prolly spotted a lot in mine though >


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## greygit

May have spoken too soon saying Nacy's passport was sorted as when opening it I find the vet has hand written the practice address and then signed it, not an official stamp she also did not cover it with the see through film and she has not covered the rabbis inoculation label with a film. Hey ho back to the vets Monday.:frown2:


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## greygit

JanHank said:


> What made you look it up Gitty, is there an outbreak in England?
> I have never heard of it.
> 
> By the way, I have never spotted any mistakes in your posts, you've prolly spotted a lot in mine though >


Re the Foot Rot outbreak yes it's quiet a big thing in the media here at the moment so it might or not be a real danger to dogs here knowing the the way media love to exaggerate everything. Saying that we have had a case locally so I must admit to being a little concerned. Advice so far is to not to exercise dogs in muddy conditions, as we live in the Forest of Dean and everywhere here is muddy at the moment how are we to avoid the mud and I mean we as we always seem to come home as messy as the dogs.:grin2:


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## JanHank

What about shoe for them ?


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## patp

There is a vet practice specialising in this disease. I will try to find the name, and location of it and post back. The condition starts as a small skin lesion and the bacteria, which is apparently, similar to Leptosporosis gets into the blood stream and attacks the dog's kidneys. The deterioration is very rapid and prompt is absolutely vital. One owner recommended bypassing a general vet and going straight to the specialist. They are not now sure that it is confined to certain areas. Nor are they certain it is related to exclusively to mud. It is environmental and can be picked up anywhere so don't be too complacent if you do not live in a high risk area or visit muddy places. 
I will go to Facebook and see if I can find the whole article.


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## patp

Here, hopefully, is a link to the specialist vet that is collating instances of the disease.

https://www.andersonmoores.com/owner/CRGV.php


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## greygit

patp said:


> Here, hopefully, is a link to the specialist vet that is collating instances of the disease.
> 
> https://www.andersonmoores.com/owner/CRGV.php


 Thanks for the link, have been on the site (and made a donation) I also followed another link which led me to this petition which hopefully will put pressure on the government to get DEFRA more involved in fighting this disease; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/213970 .......Please sign.:smile2:


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## aldra

I ain’t going near any mud

He would wreak my home 

It’s bad enough when he’s wet, and patches of my wooden floors testify 

I’d hate anything to happen to him

And it won’t if I can help it

But I couldn’t help that his intestines fell out 

And his digestion is a problem 

I can’t help his muzzle is growing greyer by the day 

And he is getter older 

And he can be sick or have diarrhoea depending 

There is only so much we can do

And let’s face it

Just like us their health is in the Lap of the gods 

And when he goes to whatever takes him 

He’s been loved 

Which in itself is a miracle 

Sandra


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## greygit

Still very muddy here in the Forest but we have taken to exercise our k9s in a local Forestry arboretum, less mud and fenced all around so no boar…yet. What there is a lot of is squirrels so the dogs get lots of exercise chasing them, Nancy soon learnt from the whippet that is what you are supposed to do, they actually killed one last week, very embarrassing!:surprise:


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## JanHank

greygit said:


> Still very muddy here in the Forest but we have taken to exercise our k9s in a local Forestry arboretum, less mud and fenced all around so no boar…yet. What there is a lot of is squirrels so the dogs get lots of exercise chasing them, Nancy soon learnt from the whippet that is what you are supposed to do, they actually killed one last week, very embarrassing!:surprise:


Like everything `cept for the squirrels ending :crying: there was probably something wrong with it or it had a death wish because they can climb trees dogs can´t


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## raynipper

Our old lab caught a squirrel once in Richmond Park and chucked it in the air. When it landed it stood it's ground and screeched at the dog. The dog was so surprised and stood back allowing the squirrel to escape.
But he was an old softie.

Ray.


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## patp

Our dogs, too, have caught squirrels. One dog got bitten once but it just served to make her more determined! I have seen pictures of Whippets up trees so do not assume it cannot happen


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## aldra

I’d be so distressed if the hound from hell killed a squirrel 

Or anything else for that matter 

He’s a pain

But as yet hasn’t killed anything 

But that’s just me , I wouldn’t kill anything

Except flies in the van

And only when I’ve given them the chance to leave 

Wasps etc , no way will I zap them , I guide them out 

And mourne any killed by the candles outside 

Sandra


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## greygit

Perhaps a point of interest, we met a man walking the dogs yesterday and we were watching the dogs chasing around looking for squirrels and this guy said that his dog caught a squirrel by the rear one day and the squirrel managed to bite the dogs front leg and puncture an archery. He rushed the dog to the vet and got treatment and in fact the dog was with him so the dog survived OK but my point is these fluffy tree rats (that's what we called them when we were kids) are not totally defenceless so.............


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## JanHank

So either stop the dogs chasing them or don't go where there are squirrels if the dog is uncontrolable. After a fright like that, that would be my answer.


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## greygit

That sounds too much like rapping dogs in cotton wool to me Jan., sorry.


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## patp

Depends on the breed. Hounds and Terriers have years of breeding to chase things. Almost unfair to stop them from performing a natural instinct imo. Better channelled into games of course  Once learned, however, almost impossible to stop. Pastoral (herding) breeds find it much easier to listen to instructions.
My lurcher (Greyhound/Staffy) caught a squirrel, that promptly bit her, once. She never forgot it and was determined to do her best to eradicate the local population. The funny thing was that, if it had given up, she would have gently carried it back to me. She used to bring me live rabbits, with myxomatosis, carried gently in her jaws.


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## JanHank

greygit said:


> That sounds too much like rapping dogs in cotton wool to me Jan., sorry.


Why are you sorry, read what I said Gitty.

*Control*.
Leave 
Stay
Come back

Our 3 dogs used to go squirrelling in Welwyn Garden, 3 of them all new these commands 
these same 3 dogs used to chase rabbits in the Yorkshire Dales on land they were allowed to chase because the farmer new they could be trusted with the sheep and would come back to our whistle.

_Control_ is the word.
I see Pat has answered, I can´t agree with that either, a dog is a dog and unless you have a bonding and understanding of the dog, whatever breed of dog it happens to be there will be no control.


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## greygit

Never been one for discipline I'm afraid.:wink2:


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## JanHank

Pity >


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## aldra

Well I’d be devistated if he killed a squirrel

Or a rabbit

So is the next thing a cat?

No I protect people from this hound from hell 

Until introduced 

But he and I would part company if he killed wildlife 

Hell We catch rats in humane traps and release them far from human habitation 

I’d never sanction killing anything 

Buts that just me

And we still have one young rat around the pond , and we will catch and release him eventually 

And the hound from hell has many faults

Killing isn’t one of them 

Sandra


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## raynipper

Ha had me quaking in my shoes though.......

Ray.


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## aldra

You would love him Ray

He is a gentle giant once introduced

Before well a hound from hell 

Sandra


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## JanHank

*Squireling before rabbiting*

_I know it went up here._


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## JanHank

Its very difficult being sensible.:frown2:


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## jiwawa

JanHank said:


> Its very difficult being sensible./images/MotorhomeFacts_2014/smilies/tango_face_sad.png


Don't we all know it! It doesn't come with old age!!


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## aldra

So Jan

What does being sensible entail 

A german Shepherd lives on average 12 yrs , give or take 

A wolf hound less 

A rescue hound prob even less depending on the age of rescue 

Follow your heart 

Il never have another GSD pup , I couldn’t walk one, I dont have sufficient garden for them to run 

I have a borrowed cross ridgeback , not my breed, but spending mon to fri here worms his way into my heart 

Totally different to Shadow who gives his affection sparingly , with dignity , his brown eyes watching 

But then again he’s my self imposed protector , and image needs to upheld it seems 

Winston loves nothing more than to cuddle up , ensconce himself on a chair, lie in front of a fire 

Shadow , well he likes to talk to me, especially for a a little while in the morning , when Albert gets up and shadow leaps onto the bed and is very vocal and we talk for a while 

And he wakes me in the night , who knows why 

I’m not privy to that

I rush downstairs to open the door in case his bowels need him to go out 

And he surveys me from the top of the stairs and goes back to bed 

Sandra


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## JanHank

This afternoon I have been looking at photos of our 3 in Yorkshire, 3 of the most Wonderful dogs, 2 white GSD bitches and a male blue Merl Sheltie. They had more fun than most dogs would ever dream of because they were obedient and came back when called. Never on leads, chasing rabbits amongst the sheep who just looked up and carried on chewing. 
(before them we had a black and tan GSD and a Sable and white Sheltie who were also allowed this freedom) 
So many photos and videos that for years after they had gone we could´nt look at, but now its fine, no more tears for them and soon there won't be any more for Shade, we will watch him just like we can watch them, with great pleasure.
There won't be another, Motley is enough for us now, he has so much love and is full of life and fun, but as I said, its difficult to be sensible.


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## aldra

Yep same here 

Our dogs unfold 

Over 50 yrs 

Special, different 

Some that bit more special than others 

But that could just be due to time in our life

Odin who walked the fells, but we were younger and fitter 

Shadow who looks much like Odin

But there the likeness stops 

A hound from hell, a gentle giant , but who knows when ?

Winston, not ours but spends much time here

Sleeps on chairs, not allowed here, but I’ve given up

Loves the fire, just about loves everything and everyone

Charges around like a demented hound , garden hall you name it , between zonking out on an available chair 

And shadow, for all his faults , my gentle giant 

I’m below him in his priority , he protects and controls me in his own way 

But 

No one else ever has, dog or human 

His soft brown eyes beguile me

And when he goes I’ll miss him so much 

But I doubt he will allow that 

I taught you better his memory will say 

Sandra


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## patp

Not for everyone, but many older dogs end up in rescue through no fault of their own. Their elderly owner dies and they are left bereft. If your preference is for a particular breed then their are specialist breed rescues that work hard to help these dogs find another home when they lose the people they love. House trained, vaccinated, health checked and many rescues will pay for any pre existing conditions.
It is very heart warming to help these dogs in their twilight years. 


On the other hand, many dogs, once they come to terms with the loss of their companion, enjoy a new lease of life as an "only". 


All very difficult to navigate through the minefield of our emotions and to look into the future.


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## JanHank

5 of our dogs were second hand.
We have made the decision, the Navajo has had a few small changes, the Hoover bag lasts forever without being emptied :laugh:
We are planning things with just Motley, he is very time consuming :grin2:
Car hire will now be possible when we are away. Both of us need to get fit again, neither of us were able to walk far before the new hips, now we must train them for long walks again.


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## patp

I am sure it is the right decision for you Jan 


I never plan to have two dogs at once. I have changed the rules this time because, if I wait for Esther to die, I will be too old for a puppy. A puppy it must be, this time, because I am tired of rehabilitating rescues so that they fit into our lives.. It is, already, proving to be really hard work, though, meeting both dogs' needs.
One needs feeding 3-4 times per day, the other just twice and they need completely different food. 
One needs frequent trips out to the garden, for house training purposes, and the other wants to come too even though she can easily go 18 hours without needing to go. Two lots of muddy feet to deal with 
They both need lots of sleep but their patterns differ.
One is allowed out for walks, the other must wait a while yet so must be left at home.


I knew all this before I embarked on the venture but it is still proving hard. Hopefully the end result will be worth it. If it wasn't for the fact that we cannot go away, because Chris is awaiting his surgery, I would not have proceeded. It just seemed an ideal time to get a puppy with us confined to base, the good weather (Ha!) arriving, and me missing my old life of doing doggy things.


And, of course, puppies are so adorable    (when they are asleep!)


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## JanHank

I have a dream :laugh:

If we moved back to the UK it would be to a place on route to Dover and all the people who can't take there dogs across the water could leave them with us, but its only a dream 0


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## raynipper

Have you seen what the UK is like now Jan.? Dunno how long ago you left but freedoms have gone.
Just been discussing this idea with friend in California who is now in UK for a visit. This is his view.........................

_Morning tv........Rip off Britain, Homes under the hammer, aka get rich quick and the expense of somebody else's cost, the Housing enforcers, can't pay? Well take it away, Motorway he'll, etc etc. Depressing.

Walking down the Surbiton high street you could conclude that the only businesses that exist are charity shops, building societies, fast food restaurants and cheap restaurants. Depressing? Worrying? Concerned for the future, yep! Do I want to permanently return to the UK? No not really although it wouldn't be hard to put a set of circumstances that would have me want to leave the US BUT always the question is the same, to where? Still trying to answer that!!_

Ray.


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## patp

New Zealand is reputed to be like England used to be.


As for all those tv shows depicting life in Britain, they are not representative of the area I live in. Yes it is much more crowded than when we moved here over 35 years ago but all our neighbours are friendly, law abiding people  We all help each other whenever we can. We get repetitive strain injury from all the friendly waving we do as we walk our dog each morning  It takes an hour longer than it should do, some days, because of the mardling (Norfolk for chatting) we do.
I think that the reason for this is that Norfolk is, basically, a "no through road". People only come here who want to live this kind of life. A slower pace.


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## JanHank

I lived in Norwich for 10 years Pat, unfortunately with the wrong man :frown2:


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## patp

Ah! I managed to find my Mr Right at the first attempt 


Norwich city has changed enormously. All pedestrianized now  They are knocking down the old office buildings and replacing them with apartments. We did toy with the idea of city centre living for a while. It would, however, have to have a balcony, be pet friendly and close to a park. That puts them out of our price range, usually. Just fancied the idea of wandering out to the market to buy stuff for lunch and then coming back to cook it. I think the novelty would soon wear off after a noisy party next door!


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## aldra

True Jan

When shadow goes he will be the last 

Still we will have winston a borrowed hound 

But our holidays will be different if we live long enough 

We love shadow but our holidays are curtailed by him , we can’t walk him through towns, he hates it 

We try to give him the walks he loves but the knees 

Sandra


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## SteveRallye1

We had dogs all our working life till the millenium. My wife still hankers after one but I am in the frame of mind I enjoy the freedom of not having one. The one outstanding memory of the last 2 we had was of putting them in good kennels whilst we went to Spain for 10 days, they were not happy even though the owners of the kennels even took them into their home to alleviate their pining. So my my wife made the mistake of saying in front of them that we wont go abroad again till they are in that kennel in heaven. They were about 7/8 years old at the time and they were 17/18years old by the time we got our freedom back! The best thing we did was housesitting looking after the house and dogs, great job but its like having the grandkids, all the fun then give them back. Bliss!


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## JanHank

SteveRallye1 said:


> We had dogs all our working life till the millenium. My wife still hankers after one but I am in the frame of mind I enjoy the freedom of not having one. The one outstanding memory of the last 2 we had was of putting them in good kennels whilst we went to Spain for 10 days, they were not happy even though the owners of the kennels even took them into their home to alleviate their pining. So my my wife made the mistake of saying in front of them that we wont go abroad again till they are in that kennel in heaven. They were about 7/8 years old at the time and they were 17/18years old by the time we got our freedom back! The best thing we did was housesitting looking after the house and dogs, great job but its like having the grandkids, all the fun then give them back. Bliss!


Your talking about the time before dog passports.
We left 2 of our dogs, both old and sensible, at home with my Dad as house and dog sitter a couple of times in those days.
After 2000 the dogs came with us, 3 of them with the caravan and we have not had a holiday without our dogs since, they are part of us, it would be like going without yer knickers, always something missing. >


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## aldra

Well I leave him for a shortstay

Maybe a weekend 

But I’d worry 

The kennel would not feed him chicken and rice

The kids would, but would they lock the gate ?

Open the door without thinking 

So we take him with us 

Wherever we go 

Sandra


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