# Winter Tyres Germany



## clipper (May 22, 2005)

Winter Driving in Germany & Snow Chains From November 2010 the use of winter tyres became compulsory for all vehicles, including motorbikes, lorries and buses. Snow chains are no longer regarded as an adequate solution.

The new law clearly states that under icy and snow conditions you must not drive without winter tyres. Since it is difficult to predict the weather it is advisable to have winter tyres between October and Easter.

Winter tyres are specifically indicated with an M+S (mud and snow) marking and are usually sold as winter, all-year or all-weather tyres.

For best results the ADAC, the German automobile club, recommends a tread depth of at least 4 mm and tyres which have a "3 Peak mountain Snow Flake" seal, which means it is suitable for use in severe snow conditions.

Anyone caught driving without M+S tyres could face a fine of €40. The fine can go up to €80 if involved in an accident or for blocking traffic.

The new snow tyre law applies to all drivers including foreign visitors, even if they do not own the vehicle. When renting a car it is the driver's responsibility to check if the vehicle they are hiring is equipped with M+S tyres. 
Clipper
Won't be going to germany now staying in France have spike spider chains I have got out of places when people have had snow tyres and have been stuck No Skiing in Germany.
Clipper


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## Ken38 (Mar 24, 2009)

Not surprised that chains will get you out where winter tyres can't but winter tyres have better grip when cold so corner and brake better in normal driving. The compound "waxes" at a lower temperature. They will wear quicker at higher temperatures as they are then softer.

In my car I have both winter tyres and chains. If I start using the MH more in the winter I will probably do the same.

By the way tyres and chains tend to more available and better priced on the continent and near the mountains. So buy your chains over there if you can.


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

I fitted Continental Vanco Winter 2 tyres which are marked M+S, Mountain, and Snowflake.

As we're going from the Alps to Morocco I phoned the tech team at continental and they said wear would be BETTER than summer/normal tyres - even in warm temperatures. So I think teh above comment of them wearing out quicker is a myth (at least for vans).

They do have downsides over summer tyres: noise; top speed; and cornering grip on warm dry tarmac.

They did say though, for a motorhome you'd not notice the difference as you wont be going >90mph and you won't be cornering on the limit (as you may with a normal car).

So no real downsides. As for noise - not noticed any differernce. As for grip - superb in the snow and make you feel safer - especially stopping. We were overtaking up hills (where previously we'd have been stuck at the bottom).

That said - we did need chains but only over pack ice up hill - and even then I wanted to put them on - the van was still driving - but I didn't want to push my luck.

Also note - there are loads of "alternative" chains on the market, such as plastic, ropes, whatever. I am unaware of anything other than BASIC CHAINS that conform to the law requiring snowchains. So much as even the snow sock website says you still need chains to comply.

Where we are, all diggers, lorries and commercial vehicles (and local cars) seem to only use basic chains. Its only the visitors that use other things.


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## Ken38 (Mar 24, 2009)

ActiveCampers said:


> As we're going from the Alps to Morocco I phoned the tech team at continental and they said wear would be BETTER than summer/normal tyres - even in warm temperatures. So I think teh above comment of them wearing out quicker is a myth (at least for vans).


Interesting the quote from Continental. If that is true why would we not fit them all year?

My German work colleagues all swap their summer and winter tyres, perhaps it's just the noise but I doubt it.

Has anyone got any real tyre wear evidence when running a motorhome?

Also remember when talking to Tech Teams they are not all actual experts and confuse opinion with facts. You have to know who you are talking to. Help desk operators are not highly paid engineers! They may well be correct but ......

If the wear is comparable then I will certainly change over to M&S all year when my tyres tread gets down to 3 or 4 mm.


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Ken38 said:


> ActiveCampers said:
> 
> 
> > As we're going from the Alps to Morocco I phoned the tech team at continental and they said wear would be BETTER than summer/normal tyres - even in warm temperatures. So I think teh above comment of them wearing out quicker is a myth (at least for vans).
> ...


The guys I spoke to were the techie team - I got diverted from the first call centre due to complex questions from me! 

The reason the germans/cars swap winter/summer is primarily for speed. The germans like driving a vMax on the autobhan - and winter tyres can not do speed nor cornering speed as you'd expect in a car. Also in a car they'd be noticiably more noisy whereas a hightop diesel van it doesn't matter.

Winter tyres are also slightly more pricey (though I bought online for £72 a tyre delivered, and £25 to fit/balance all 4 at a local garage!)

My current trip will be, maybe, 10,000 miles? So I will report back after - most of which will be road miles in Spain and Morocco and only a short percentage in snow.

Also interestingly, the vanco winter 2 have a higher load rating than the OEM tyres which means they are further away from their limit which can only be good.

On a camper - IMO - they'd be better all year round as they are also rated for mud which we all tend to drive in at times (aka campsites etc).

I had planned on buying another set of wheels and swapping, but binned that idea.

edit: My OEM tyres lasted 40,000 miles with the rears still with 7mm tread (going on eBay) and front on 4mm. So tyre wear is hardly the main cost of motoring....


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## Ken38 (Mar 24, 2009)

Agree Winter Tyres look the best option. Will watch for your report back with interest!

I bought a tyre depth gauge a while ago, probably from Halfords. Quite simple and cheap. If you are keen you may use one to check the wear as you do your 10k tour. I am impressed, that is serious touring!

Have fun.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

ActiveCampers said:


> Ken38 said:
> 
> 
> > ActiveCampers said:
> ...


Agree totally.
We also have conti vanco winter2 fitted and the difference is unbelieveable compared to the summer conti vancos they replaced.

No getting stuck in mud, snow, ice. Mud/load was the main reason for us as we like small CL's, but also going abroad for an extended period in May/June staying for the winter. We are having the MH uprated to 4200kg GVW and these tyres are 115N rated.

It will be interesting to compare in the summer although would never go back to summer tyres on a MH.

Paul.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

*winter tyres*

interesting thread, a couple of points to ponder.

Since motorhomes generally do a relativly low mileage per year, then faster wear may not be a major consideration since we need to replace tyres at 5 yearly intervals.

This may be more than offset by the knowledge of having better traction on grass and mud plus the reassurance of better grip and braking when out and about during winter months which more of our members seem to do.

Is it possible that because winter tyres are a softer mix with a higher percentage of rubber that they stick' to the road better in summer thus reducing MPG.

It strikes me that there has to be a logical reason for both types of tyre, wether cost, efficiency, longevity, mpg, noise etc.

Given that I live in Northern Ireland ie. up north, but a different island with cooler average yearly temperatures, and just having had the two snowiest winters for decades, I am giving definite thought to using them all year round.

Open to more debate.

Davy


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

*Re: winter tyres*



TeamRienza said:


> Is it possible that because winter tyres are a softer mix with a higher percentage of rubber that they stick' to the road better in summer thus reducing MPG.
> 
> It strikes me that there has to be a logical reason for both types of tyre, wether cost, efficiency, longevity, mpg, noise etc.
> 
> Davy


I've only driven 1000 miles on my Conti vancowinter2's but found that I lost 3 mpg. Some of that may be down to driving in cold weather and the dark but I suspect it is largely the softer rubber and lower tyre pressures v camper tyres (about 15psi less to optimise handling).

Off to Austria tomorrow so that will confirm it. I expect to put the Camper tyres back on by Easter. The winter tyres seem no noisier.

Kev


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## JimmyBee (Jul 14, 2010)

Loads of cars here don't have the special tyres on. The marking is certainly not on them. Not been nosy enough to stare at the other motorhomers tyres but I doubt they do either.

Been snowing for the last few days mind you so maybe I should have got them myself!


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

As requested:-

7,000 ish miles on the Vanco Winter 2. Including 2 months in the Alps, then Spain/Portugal and Morocco, so loads of naff roads. Temps of -20 to +58 (in the sun) - loads of rough roads and loads of hills and mountain passes.

They did work well in the snow and cold, and no noticable problems in the heat.

Tyres came with 10mm - now on about 7-8mm. So 3000m per mm seems a good guess.

Considering the original tyres (Goodyear Cargo) did 40,000m before chaging (so maybe used 7-8mm tread) so 5000m per mm - looks like the winter tyres do wear quicker.

Clearly, different usage but even taking that into account...

That said, the winter tyres most definately worked and absolutely kept us going in the snow/ice where the Goodyear Cargos were crap. So worth it for that purpose, but at only just over 1/2 the life.... Maybe not cost effective for all year round use. However, I'm keeping them on


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