# Germany in November



## LIPPY (Apr 19, 2010)

hi i am fairly new to the site so hope my question is in the right spot.
we hope to go to Germany end of November to catch a few Xmas markets i plan to follow the road down from wurzburg to fussen loosely following the romantic road (their name not my mine ha ha).
we have never been to Germany or abroad this time of year and would be grateful for any info regarding germany and especially things to consider on a winter break like how to stop the motor freezing up if it gets really cold ... any info would be really great
i am sure you get what i am asking thanks in hope sel


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

We did a similar thing in 2008 - see our German posts end of Nov early Dec:
http://adamsophie.blogspot.com/

As a general rule of thumb, the further into Germany you go the better the Christmas Markets are. Munich and Berlin were excellent, closely followed by Nuremburg and Lubeck.

If you are travelling on the Romantische Straße then you will be near Munich so would recommend calling in. We visited Neuschwanstein in 2010 ( http://www.europebycamper.com/ ) and while it is a tourist trap it was a good day out.

As for stop overs, we used Bord Atlas. It is all in German, but easy to translate through the icons and GPS Co-Ordinates. It has pictures which allows you to see where you might be staying.

Camp sites are deserted in Germany out of season and despite staying on some ACSI Camping Card discounted sites for water/washing stops we'd much rather stay on aires. The only down side is that water is sometimes hard to come by as some aires are disconnected to prevent freezing.

Germany is beautiful this time of year - so as long as you are stocked up on Gas (Gaslow recommended this time of year) and moving on every day or two to charge you battery (assuming you have blown air heating and no solar/hook up) you will be fine.

I'll be in Berlin for 3 weeks over Christmas - can't wait.

Bord Atlas:
http://www.vicarious-shop.com/product.php?productid=102&cat=1&page=1


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

the motor will be the least of your worries, provided you make sure your fuel tank is filled with winter diesel. I am not sure whether winter diesel is sold in UK, on the Continent it is standard from end of October onwards. 

Then you should put on winter tyres, except if you can afford to stay for some days on one spot in case of snowfall. And, especially if you have an FWD van and want to go into the mountains, it is a good idea to have snow chains with you. (Try putting them on and off before departure, so you know what to do in case you need them.)

Many camp sites in Germany will be closed during winter, and in contrast to what Addie has said it is quite likely that campers will crowd on the remaining few open sites. Using "stellplatz" sites is however usually no problem, though on some of them fresh water supply will be turned off. 

If for said reason you find it difficult to obtain fresh water, then ask at petrol stations. In most cases they will be happy to help you out, and if you refuel then normally even for free. But be careful on Sundays, because usually they have their water tap inside the car wash facility, which is closed (by law) on Sundays.

If no working dumping station for waste water is available, then try at the local sewage treatment plant ("Kläranlage"), during normal office hours.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## rupert1 (Feb 13, 2009)

Some good advice here but a couple of things I cannot agree with from Gerhard. You will be OK with diesel and in any case will fill up in Europe long before you get to any mountains. Snow tyres are a waste of money unless you can afford to have a couple of sets of tyres. You will not get to the mountains until the southern end of the romantic road and even then will not go high, no passes to cross. It should remain clear but it may be an idea to buy chains if you intend to venture into the hills at all. Personally I think a lot of the romantic road is overated and would consider going via Luxemburg, Moselle from Trier to Koblenz the Rhine to around Rudisheim, then crossing over and joining it around Rothenburg ODT. lots of Xmas markets on the way and plenty of stellplatz, some sites open and a lot are ACSI, they will not be crowded until later in December. The Bord Atlas as has been suggested is great in Germany. Germany is a brilliant M/H country and English is even more widely spoken than in France. You will have a great trip whatever you decide.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

We're off to Germany for new year. Going Hull Europort for a change.

Not sure yet where we're going but looking towards Hamburg and then a few days in Denmark.

Found a site up near the German / Denmark border which is having a new years party. The cost of the party is 60 euro's for each adult and 35 euro's each for the kids which are 11 & 8yrs. I think at 190 8O euros it might be a bit expensive as we don't drink much (well not when in charge of the kids) although i'm sure it would be a great night. The campsite is an extra 73 euros for 3 nights, so might just give it a miss  .

Anyone any tips for Denmark?


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

rupert1 said:


> Snow tyres are a waste of money unless you can afford to have a couple of sets of tyres.


Background is that winter tyres are nowadays *legally required* in Germany, if you want to drive on snow-covered roads. This is why I wrote _"...except if you can afford to stay for some days on one spot in case of snowfall."_. Because with summer tyres you have to wait until roads are cleaned from snow, before you are legal to move on.

And even if most of the "Romantic Road" is quite far away from the alps, snowfall is nevertheless possible.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

Germany

Motorists are obliged to make sure they have correct tyres to suit the winter weather conditions. This may mean the use of winter tyres (with M&S or snowflake symbol) and in extreme weather, the additional use of snow chains.

Vehicles with summer tyres fitted are not allowed to be driven on roads covered with snow and ice. Fines are in place for vehicles found to be doing so.

Hi, a lot of motor homers and fleet operators in Germany now fit All Season Tyres to cut the cost of having two sets of wheels..... :roll: Winter and Summer tyres, I did read somewhere that a 40 euro fine if caught without them and parked up until the roads are clear, and an 80 euro fine if your involved in an accident and even if its not you fault it will be in the eyes of the insurance company.  

We have M + S tyres on our van, and leaving last January towing a trailer with Smart car all the way from Suffolk right through France with no problems Snow all the way, and going on Grass and Rally fields its well worth having them On.  Bob.


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## rupert1 (Feb 13, 2009)

bobandjane said:


> Germany
> 
> Motorists are obliged to make sure they have correct tyres to suit the winter weather conditions. This may mean the use of winter tyres (with M&S or snowflake symbol) and in extreme weather, the additional use of snow chains.
> 
> ...


It may be worth having a set of all season tyres but having a winter tyre for what will be limited use is a dangerous precedent. Winter tyres rubber is made to operate below freezeing levels, if used under normal conditions will reduce tyre grip and braking distance by up to 20%. No one should use these as an all year tyre. You are correct about Germany but the route being suggested by the original poster would be unlikely to see heavy snowfall and despite any legistation a lot of Germans, probably most I have seen, do not use winter tyres.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Boff said:


> Background is that winter tyres are nowadays *legally required* in Germany, if you want to drive on snow-covered roads. This is why I wrote _"...except if you can afford to stay for some days on one spot in case of snowfall."_. Because with summer tyres you have to wait until roads are cleaned from snow, before you are legal to move on.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Gerhard


Hi Gerhard, hope you are keeping well,

I've read that they are now trying to make it compulsory in Germany to have winter tyres fitted all the time during the winter period, standard tyres will no longer be allowed .
Have I got that right? 
If so, do you know whether this will be compulsory for Non German visitors?

Pete


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

rupert1 said:


> bobandjane said:
> 
> 
> > Germany
> ...


They may well ignore fitting Winter tyres but in an accident their insurance company will not cover them, that has been the case for the last few years, my company in Germany change over to winter tyres end of Oct removing end Mar/April dependent on conditions

You as the driver of the vehicle should have appropriate tyres for the conditions and can face on the spot fines or your journey stopped.

This website has some useful info http://www.drive2ski.com/index.php

Chris


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

I feel a bit of scaremongering is going on here.

I spent all of November/December travelling about 4,000 miles through Germany on 'Summer' tyres without issue. If you stick to the main roads you will find them absent of snow - the German snow-clearing infrastructure far surpasses anything we have here.

Other posts are right in it is possible to receive an 'on the spot fine' if you are unable to make progress in snow - but in such an event snow chains or even better a 'Tyre Sock' will probably make a bigger difference than Summer vs Winter tyres:
http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/weisssock.htm

Your UK insurance company will cover you regardless of your tyre choice in Geramany while legislation remains as is present. If is only when you cross over into the likes of the Czech Republic when there is neither the roads nor the infrastructure to keep them clear when Snow Tyres become a legal requirement (and as such tyre patrols check them at the borders).

Even with winter tyres, you're not likely to want to wander too far off the cleared roads for fear of getting stuck. Common sense prevails here.

That's not to say winter tyres won't be of an advantage - but for a main roads they are generally unnecessary.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-and-snow-chains.html


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

Addie said:


> I feel a bit of scaremongering is going on here.
> 
> I spent all of November/December travelling about 4,000 miles through Germany on 'Summer' tyres without issue. If you stick to the main roads you will find them absent of snow - the German snow-clearing infrastructure far surpasses anything we have here.
> 
> ...


Addie

The reference I made to insurance is relevant to Rupert1 post which is the post I was answering, he intimated that not a lot of Germans would change to winter tyres, I operate a company in Germany so am aware of these regs, you only fall foul if you can't make progress due to incorrect tyres etc, it is open to all sorts of interpretation, that is valid for any driver irrespective of nationality/home country.

You are correct in that it should not impact on a UK drivers insurance, and your other points are very valid, I would completely agree with your suggestions, but people need to be aware that the fines can and are given if you fall foul of the ability to progress scenario.

Chris


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## CliffyP (Dec 19, 2008)

I have been to Berlin late Nov for the past 8 years, with the boys for a boys escape :wink: . The weather has never been that bad that time of the year. Well off to pack now 'We go tomorrow' til Sunday :lol: :lol: 
Freedom :wink:


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



peejay said:


> Have I got that right?


No. The plan is to make the current law, which requires only "suitable tyres", more specific. So that it explicitly says "winter tyres". But the requirement will still be linked to snow-covered roads.

Regarding the probability of snowfall: Being German, I have lived more than half of my life in Germany, most of it in Southern Germany though I was not born there. And I can only say that it is quite likely to have the first snowfall at around end November to early December.

Nevertheless, as I have said twice already: If you can afford to *wait* for a night or two until the roads are snow-free again, then you will be fine with summer tyres, too. German snow-clearing services are - as you might expect :wink: - rather efficient.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## LIPPY (Apr 19, 2010)

*germany in november*

thanks to all and a lot of great info. lippy


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## Tissy (Jul 10, 2010)

Hi All,
just read this topic and learnt something new again.
What are M&S tyres?
does carrying snow chains conform with the law
thanks


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

Tissy said:


> Hi All,
> just read this topic and learnt something new again.
> What are M&S tyres?
> does carrying snow chains conform with the law
> thanks


Tissy

M& S refers to Mud & Snow

The law is difficult to see any definitive, you can be fined on the spot if you are not able to make progress because you have not got winter tyres or chains etc but as far as I am aware it is not a legal requirement to have them. that is what the new proposals are about.

If you are heading to the snow capped hills then it would be sensible to equip the van accordingly with chains etc

Chris


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## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

Boff said:


> rupert1 said:
> 
> 
> > Background is that winter tyres are nowadays *legally required* in Germany, if you want to drive on snow-covered roads.
> ...


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi again,

just a remark: From tomorrow onwards, snowfall is predicted for large areas of Germany, including the Romantic Road ...

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## CliffyP (Dec 19, 2008)

Back now. Thurs-Sun lovely, warmer than here in Berlin, they tested the lights on the Ku Dam Friday night, fantastic. Christmas Markets open Today (thursday) over 100 in Berlin alone. Going next year in the M/Home for sure.  . Managed to get my pollution sticker for next summer as well 6.50 euros.


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