# Dangerous Pack Of Dogs - What To Do?



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi All,

A question for you.

We have a person in my village who has about 8 dogs and takes them for a walk regularly. If I come across him with Meg my Border Collie, they chase her and she panics and always runs home with me in hot pursuit. This is an issue that really grates, taking my casual walk into a frustrated heart pounding nightmare.

This morning it happened again. Meg who was ahead of me in the woods, suddenly turned and was running to me at breakneck speed. Followed by the pack! One of these dogs is a large Lurcher which banged into my leg and I now have a sprained knee. Meg ran home with at least two dogs chasing her and the owner calling at the top of his voice and getting nowhere.

Needless to say when I got home, Meg was very quiet and even inside would not eat her treat of a couple of biscuits. My leg is very painful and it remains to be seen if it will swell up or bruise later today.

I feel legally I have redress on a couple of accounts:

1. Dogs where hunting in a pack and always do
2. Physical attack by a hunting dog, however much it was an accident it did bang at speed into me nearly knocking me over.

Your thoughts and possible legal experience would be most appreciated.

Regards

Chris


----------



## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

hi, difficult problem, have 2 german shepherds myself, firstly with your dog off lead too its a little tit for tat, think a dog banging into you would be deemed accidental, although i feel your pain one of mine ran into me in pursuit of frisbee foot went black ans swole took 2 weeks before it eased, perhaps you could have chat with the owner of the dogs, explain whats happening and you feel intimidated by the pack, you could have chat with local police but i doubt they,d be too interestred, they tend to wait till someone gets savaged. my 2 are keen to have a nose at other dogs which un nerves some owners so i try keep ahead of the problem and put there leads on if i see other dogs, 
good luck and get some frozen peas on ankle and take ibuprophen,


----------



## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

I'd start with a call to the local council's Dog warden see what they can do!
You've got to do something chris I don't even want to think what would happen if these dogs caught up with yours.
Couldn't you change where you walk to start with?


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

You say its a Village so do you know the owner.
I would think she is worried as well seeing as she was trying to call the pack to heel.
She hasn't control though has she.
Go and talk to her she might even agree to tell you when she takes her pack for a walk and you can work around those times.
Walk your dog at a later time.
Maybe she could let your dog get to know each dog one by one.
The Police cant do anything as they haven't done damage (well not really as bumping into you was accidental.)
They might have had other complaints and she might have an order out to restrain them so it could be worth a chat at the Police Station.
Anyway good luck it must have been quiet frightening so make another coffee.


----------



## 114172 (Jul 8, 2008)

This may help...........

Control
• Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (outside London) and Metropolitan Police Act 1839 (London) 
These Acts make it an offence to allow an unmuzzled, ferocious dog to be left at large, or for a person to set on or to urge any dog attack, worry or put in fear any person or animal in the street.


----------



## damondunc (Feb 14, 2006)

I know it may sound funny but have you and Meg met these dogs up close in a controlled way , is it possible that the chasing is play to the "pack" but Poor Meg being outnumbered is running scared , i have found that once introduced to new dogs ours lose interest .
Just because one of the dogs is a lurcher does not mean they are a hunting pack unless you can prove to the contary they are ( i have a lurcher and a whippet but they are not hunting dogs by any means )
What other dogs are in the pack.

I would speak to the owner and see if an amicable solution can be found as your first course of action 

As regards the Lurcher banging into you ,they are so focused on what they are chasing they don't see obstacles in their path ( chasing does not imply hunting , merely chasing :wink: ) Hope your bruise goes down soon.

Chris


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Many thanks for your replies so far.

I shall elaborate a little more!

This man's eight dogs are hunting dogs, indeed he takes them shooting most weekends if not every day.

He is not a nice person and very much a busy body in the village, not liked by many folks.

If they did catch Meg, I have not doubt that she would be physically damaged. As mentioned this is not the first time for me or others. Last year his Lurcher missed me and took one of my fence posts out on the border of our garden.

We have met the dogs in the local pub and for the most they are well behaved. But he has no control over them nor does he ever take a lead.

Whilst I blame the owner not the dog and I really do not want to get the dog brigade upset, but I fell that I should at the least be entitled to hit the dogs with a stick. What concerns me is Eleanor (11 years old) takes Meg for walks and is very scared of the Lurcher in particular. I have no doubt in my mind if she had been hit with the force I had been hit with this morning she would at the least had broken bones, at worst God forbid!

I will call the Police this morning and many thanks for legal quote brynvolk I will check that out on the net and quote it to the Police when I call.

Will keep you informed.

Best regards

Chris


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

G2EWS said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Many thanks for your replies so far.
> 
> ...


This puts a totally different light on the subject.
I would think the Police might listen as I bet there is a restraining order out on the man already.
All the villagers should get together to sort this out.
You must have a Local Committee or Parish meetings so bring it before them.
You need more backing.
Mavis


----------



## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Dogs*

My knowledge of Dogs is minimal we have many years ago had one as pet and he was fine.
We have always treated Rotwielers with great respect and given them a wide berth untill I met my son-in laws parents who during our aquaintance have had three. Butch and Brad were always well behaved dogs and no problem at all with our daughters dogs or children.
Number three Brad although going through the same puppy training etc is an absolute B he is agressive and disobedient. The owners are finding this most embarrasing and are doing all to correct the situation but he may be for the chop as they are worried when he is with our grandchildren.
I suppose it proved you cannot generalise as like us they are all different .

Steve


----------



## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

When the various acts controlling dogs came in to force, I thought there was a clause limiting the number of dogs one person could be in charge of.
Also you say he hunts with the dogs-isn't this banned together with fox hunting?


----------



## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

I do feel that you have redress here.

If dogs are to be exercised without a lead, they should be well trained enough to 'leave' when told to. i.e to stop chasing your dog.

As this is repeat behaviour and this man does not carry a lead then he is in the wrong as he is not in control of these animals. If they are hunting dogs as you say they will pursue and attack any animal fleeing in blind panic as yours does.

Judging by your comments, I do not think this man would take a blind bit of notice if you approach him on the subject, and feel you would be better to leave this to the police. If you make a formal complaint and any further instances occur then they will have to act.

I am not being harsh on you, but I also feel that if your dog is not on a lead then it should be within 'sight' of you so you can for see any problems and either get it back on the lead or remove it from the situation. I know its difficult in a wood when they snuffle off to 'chase' rabbits......
(An extreme example of this would be a dog off the lead, and out of sight of the owner, biting a child or sheep or getting run over)


I am a dog owner myself, and do not allow my dog off the lead unless I can see that there are no people or dogs etc within 200 yards, my dog has good recall but due to his size I am constantly anticipating the unexpected, so I can get him back on the lead quickly.

I am sure your dog is well trained, but I feel you should address your dogs fear, by protecting it from being put in this type of situation and by re socialising at a dog training class may help to give back his confidence around other dogs, but in a controlled environment.

Best wishes, for a quick recovery.


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Thanks for additional input.

Hi Bouncer,

Meg is always in sight of me when I go out walking and mixes with other dogs reasonably well. She is typical of a full grown Border Collie in that she will either want to round up other dogs or not have anything to do with them.

She is always very well behaved and at worse will snarl or as we call it smile if another dog annoys her.

I have spoken to the Police who confirm that an incident will be raised and the owner spoken to. It will be interesting to see if there are any other incidents of this happening in the past. 

I can expect a visit from an officer in the next day or so to take a full statement.

I have made it clear that even if it was a correct punishment I would not want to see any harm come to his dogs. What I am interested in is seeing them more under control or him only taking a couple out at a time, with of course leads so he can control them.

Best regards

Chris


----------



## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

Chris, I think you have adopted a very sensible attitude towards this, and hope it resolves itself without any more fuss.

With the best will in the world no one could adequately control a pack of dogs like that even if they were on a lead, so I hope this chap sees the error of his ways.


----------



## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

I had a similar problem with a lady who would let her dogs out on there own into the field where I walk my 14 year old Lab,they are a pair of male staffies and if one started a fight the other piled in too.
I got sick of having to pull her dogs away from mine (at 14 an attack on him could be fatal) and send them away so I contacted the dog warden who payed her a visit.
The dog warden from your local council will be interested in your plight (more than the police) and will pay a visit to this chap and monitor the situation until it is resolved.
I do sympathise with you,our next door neighbour has a particularly nasty dog who would jump over the fence and attack our dog in his own back garden.
No amount of requests to control it had any impact on our neighbours until it got loose and attacked a neighbour and his dog and bit them both.
That particular neighbour called the police and after several requests for a visit the Police finally came out and just warned the neighbour with the dog to keep it under control even though the other chap and his dog had been severely bitten!
So I think the Dog Warden is the route for you to take and I do hope the situation is resolved soon,it is horrible to have your walks spoiled by stupid people!
I adore dogs and cannot imagine life without one but I have to say this old boy of ours is our last dog as I am sick to death of him being attacked by dogs off the lead and there owners do nothing to control them.
New Years Eve my dog had his ear bitten by a lurcher and it cost over £100 at the vet to treat it,the owner did not give a stuff!Last weekend he was set upon by a dalmation who was out of control and quite frequently we have dogs approaching ours and trying to start a fight whilst the owner does nothing at all to prevent it!
My dog is on the lead at all times as he is going deaf and blind so I keep him close or he wanders off in a world of his own so he is not guilty of causing the problems but we seem to come across unpleasant dogs on a regular basis which spoils our walks and enjoyment of owning a dog.

Val


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Bouncer,

Thanks for your encouragement.

Hi Val,

Thanks for your input. Very sad situation you are in with your dog. I also worry about Meg who gets very stressed anyway.

My problem will certainly not stop me walking Meg or enjoying my walks. but I will be more prepared after this particular problem. As mentioned my concern is letting Eleanor take Meg for a walk. She came running back last weekend when she saw this man's dogs and in particular the Lurcher. We live in the country and she waited for him to go from the field behind us then went out again. We have not told her about this, because it would only worry her more.

Regards

Chris


----------



## damondunc (Feb 14, 2006)

I think in light of the situation that you have done the right thing , hope he and his dogs can be controlled


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

damondunc said:


> I think in light of the situation that you have done the right thing , hope he and his dogs can be controlled


Hopefully!

We will see what happens when the Police come round to take my statement.

Regards

Chris


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

G2EWS said:


> I can expect a visit from an officer in the next day or so to take a full statement.


Hi Chris,

FWIW, I also think you've gone about it the right way, given all the circumstances you've outlined here. Be aware though that it's unlikely you'll be asked to provide an actual written statement unless you're being asked to make a complaint on which the Police will take positive action against the dogs' owner. If it's simply a matter of his being warned, no statement will need to be provided.

Dougie.


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

There is good news and bad - i have had a similar experience with 7 malumuts, which did catch our dog and attacked us both very badly. 

Now, there is a law regarding having a dog dangerously out of control in a public place. In order to satisfy legislation, you have to have either been attacked, or IN FEAR of being attacked/endangering you or your animal.

The dog warden recognises dog attacks, but the police do not - dog on dog is seen as fair game. Technicaly something should be done, but reality is quite different.

All dogs should be on a leash when in a public place at all times - if you check, you should find that greyhounds/lurchers etc should be muzzled. If he is hunting with them, what is he hunting? It is illegal to hare course etc. It may pay to check the hunting with dogs act.

Sorry i cannot say it is cut and dried, but you can report for being dangerously out of control in a public place - the fact that you were knocked over or into could help this but by no means will it count as an attack as it was accidental. However it does proove it saw your dog as prey hence it was focused on your dog and did not see you. Call the Police Headquarters and have a word, ask their advice. There is a national line that are very helpful and will tell you what they are obliged to do. In our case though, the local force did not want to know - so don't get your hopes up!


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Rainbow-Chasers said:


> Call the Police Headquarters and have a word, ask their advice


He's already said he's contacted his local station and an officer is coming to see him.

Dougie.


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

asprn said:


> G2EWS said:
> 
> 
> > I can expect a visit from an officer in the next day or so to take a full statement.
> ...


Hi Dougie,

Many thanks for that. Will see what happens when they visit. I think they are keen to have a word with him, to check the dogs out.

Hi Rainbow-Chasers,

Many thanks for your input, as Dougie mentioned, it is now in the hands of the local constabulary.

Best regards

Chris


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

The fact that they are coming out sounds like you have a good constabulary where you are. Don't expect miracles as the law is quite limiting in regards to what the police can do, but rest assured he will give some suitable words of advice! You will probably find that they will be muzzled and on a leash when they are not working, that will be the probable outcome - if that is broken then they have far more powers after he has been cautioned.

In the mean time, you need to train yourself too! Sounds a little odd, but trust me! Try to remain calm and confident, and project that to your dog. Other dogs sense energy, and weak energy will send them into attck mode. If you project calm assertive energy, they will respond in a totally different way! I had to do this with ours after he was attacked as he is a dog aggressive breed anyway, and after was showing nervous aggression which is pretty dangerous. He meets all sorts of dogs now without incident.

If a dog is growling as he approaches that is play - the ones to watch are the ones that come in silently and swiftly with heads down. That is attack.


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Rainbow-Chasers said:


> The fact that they are coming out sounds like you have a good constabulary where you are


At risk of starting a debate I don't want, it sounds more like you had an unsatisfactory experience with yours. This is bread & butter stuff, and there is no national league table which Forces or officers work from to decide whether to turn up or not.



Rainbow-Chasers said:


> Don't expect miracles as the law is quite limiting in regards to what the police can do


Miracles indeed take a little longer, but despite your rather subjective "quite limiting" description, the relevant legislation is generally quite effective.



Rainbow-Chasers said:


> ....they have far more powers after he has been cautioned


Erm, not so. Powers don't escalate after a caution (or conviction). Persistent offending may mean the punitive wall goes higher, but it doesn't give the Police far more powers - the legislation contains the powers.

Dougie.


----------



## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

Rainbow-Chasers said:


> The dog warden recognises dog attacks, but the police do not - dog on dog is seen as fair game. Technicaly something should be done, but reality is quite different.
> 
> All dogs should be on a leash when in a public place at all times - if you check, you should find that greyhounds/lurchers etc should be muzzled.


Wrong in two areas. There is no requirement to muzzle Greyhounds in public (I have two.) and also, when another (Smaller) dog attacked one of my hounds and was fatally injured in the process, the Police interviewed me under caution and were very much interested !
(I should clarify that my dog was leashed, the other was not on a public road, but the other dog's owner made a complaint to the Police before I could, so I was the "accused" through no fault of my own.)


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

I was going on what the local police said down here - the dogs that attacked ours had killed 6 other dogs, but NOT bitten anyone enough to warrant stitches, so they had got away with it on numerous occasions before.

The Police Headquarters DID say that we were to contact our local station, and gave us a list of offences that had been committed - BUT - on the 4 occasions we called, the local station said it was not considered serious enough for action as the main injuries were sustained by the dog and the tears i had in my leg were minimal. The officer stated that their arms were tied unless someone was seriously injured. Bear in mind here that when the owner did turn up, he crossed his arms laughing, and watched the attack! So i was quite insistant that something was done.

The dog warden would have taken action, but considered it the Polices job, as he had experience with the particular pack before and considered them lethal.

I am not slagging off the police at all - there are no performance tables i know and wasn't suggesting their was! As you know dougie, i work with the police on a daily basis and many are friends - and i am sure you are wise enough to know that not every one is perfect at their job, as any proffesion. It is just nice to see an area respond so well when i have experienced a brick wall - it was to be considered a compliment.

As for muzzling greyhounds - we always did with our lurchers, and it was considered compulsory with everyone else would owned that type of dog. Maybe it is a voluntary thing, or considered good mannered - it was something that was done. I am not a judge, which i why i said *to check!*


----------

