# France is french.



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

The members on here have a wide range of abilities including languages, French for example.We range from fluent to non existent, mine was learnt and mostly forgotten over 60 years ago.

I have found that in all the countries I have visited France is the only one that will not even consider helping a stranger/tourist with communicating.Menus are always only in French.I would not mind if they even used photos.
Can I ask, are they retarded, do they care, (I think I know the answer to that).I did get angry enough to tell one Garçon who fully understood what I was asking,that it was thanks to the English speaking countries that saved them from having to learn German.
This got a snigger from an adjoining table, no they were Dutch.

Am I alone in this point of view, any other countries with this attitude.

cabby


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Cabby

Funny buggers, the Frogs . . . but usually OK if you know the secret.

You must at least make a feeble attempt at speaking French first. _(Can't say I blame them to be honest. Why should they learn English, any more than we learn French to cater for tourists!!)_

Learn to say, "Desole Monsieur, mais je ne parle pas Francais." (Sorry Sir, but I don't speak French.)

In most cases that will thaw them at once, and they will suddenly remember they can speak perfect English. A fact that is often forgotten by ignorant and abusive English tourists, who have largely been responsible for the "offish" attitude of French waiters!

Dave

P.S. Can't find the accents, but the spelling is correct.


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

It's all about trying, if you try, they're typically happy and warm up. I dare say that if non-English speaking tourists came to the UK and just started off by speaking their language to our waiters, they'd get a similar response much of the time.

Also consider Cabby, that the Dutch might not have been laughing "with" you. They take pride in speaking other languages and are only too familiar with the English attitude toward languages...

A little goes a long way when talking to johnny-foreigner


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As one who now lives there and struggles as I am "O" Level (failed), I can sympathise with Cabby and Zeb's views..... just a few observations;

1. if you try to communicate at all they will listen and will try to understand (even when coming round from a General Anaesthetic as I was last week), after a while they will admit they also speak some English, but they are rarely up front with it (found that out numerous times)

2. Everything in France is governed by paperwork and bureaucracy (hardly surprising as "bureaucracy" is a word derived from French....), usually a copy of everything has to be given every time at every office and two offices next door need individual copies.....

3. France insists on French for everything (unlike the UK which pays for translations of everything in about 169 different languages including some spoken by only about 10 people in the whole world....),

4. France is INCREDIBLY protectionist - if it ain't French they don't want to know - I am sure they use FRENCH steel for everything, not that cheap Chinese stuff.....,

5. They try hard NOT to allow such things to be diluted by others - hence why English is so frowned upon within the EU - it displaces French from being the most important language (in their blinkered eyes).

6. All instruction guides for ALL products are written in many languages; French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Turkish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and many others EXCEPT English is NEVER included - they assume that if you speak English you speak another language as well....

7. The French implicitly don't trust the English (they are OK with the Scots, Welsh and Irish, but not the English) - exactly why is evident through any historical study; I strongly recommend "100 years of annoying the French" - excellent read and probably totally accurate.....

But, if you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.....

I'm surviving (just)

Dave


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Totally agree Dave.
What appears to me to be a majority of French people will make no effort to understand what you are trying to say to them (in admittedly poor French). 
When trying to find why you will be informed it is because your accent or pronunciation is incorrect, the fact that you have the correct word makes no difference you haven't pronounced it correctly.
The nearest town to us is Ernée, which is pronounced "air nay" by those that know, wife and I were chatting to a lady whilst in a waiting room, she asked where we lived we informed her it was a small village near "air nay" she looked bemused and asked again, after a while she said oh "aira nay" which is the way the locals to where we were pronounced it! 
So possibly it is a regional thing, as well as the often reported arrogance of the French, (usually the older male)


.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't find the French any worse than other nationalities. 
Just admit you're going to make a fool of yourself and jump right in with," la solly brie Don soon Bo sielle blur*". Gets 'em giggling in no time!
Best stubborn Frog I attempted to communicate with was a barmaid (fillette de bar?). I wanted a bottle of that Stella Artois cider. So, in my best french accent, copied from the TV advert I asked for 'un ceeedra, silver plate'. All I got was a puzzled and sympathetic look, until I changed tactics and asked for a 'bottle of Stella scrumpy'.


*of course as all french speakers know it should be written as, la soleil brille dans un beau ciel bleu.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Living in a country that has its own language (Welsh) I can fully understand why the French are so protective about theirs.

Don't forget that more than half the English language is derived (derivée!) from Norman French.

As a result of the "might" of Britain came the Anglicisation of virtually the whole of the North American continent and eventually the sun never set on a part of the globe that was coloured red.

One way or another English became the _lingua franca_, displacing French in many cases.
Think of the diplomat, the Russian elite, the international postal and telegraphic service - all done originally in French.

Thus it is that English became not only a _lingua franca_ allowing the use of it between speakers of other tongues but
also the actual native language of many different countries and peoples.

Numerically English is not the majority language of the globe (think Chinese) but it is certainly the most widely spoken.

That makes us, whose first language is English, incredibly lucky and perhaps lazy too.

So, back to the French and their French. 
They are not squeaky clean in this as they have quashed the use of many of their native tongues; 
Breton, Corsican, to name just a couple.

Here in Wales the Welsh language was actively persecuted a century ago. 
School children were punished in class if they spoke it (look up "Welsh Not").
Trials in court had to be in English - even if the defendant and others could not understand what was going on.

So, back to travelling in France. 
I agree, English is not so widely understood in France as it is, say, in the Netherlands or Germany.
My experience is not negative as described in the OP by cabby.
Unfailing helpfulness and tolerance has been the norm.

I have never, ever been shunned by a French speaker.
Except once, in Québec in 1966 - but that's another story!

I have deliberately updated my schoolboy French O Level (1960!) and improved my Spanish and German.
Italian I leave to my limited Latin and the similarity to Fr & Sp.

I moved to Wales in 1978 and immediately set about learning the language - which is harder than all the other languages combined!

Why? Courtesy for one, the ability to join more fully in another culture for another.

One final thought.

One would have to be mightily thick not to understand

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité"

J'espère que vous avez apprécié le week-end avec un sandwich!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cabby

Try shouting in English loudly and waving your arms about. This seems to be a tactic I have observed over the years by Brits trying to deal with silly foreigners. 

I beat them at their own game (the French). I pretend I speak perfect French and rabble on like I know what I am doing. They laugh for a bit at the silly Inglese and then are quite helpful. I am perfect at telling them that Mr Mayor is in the garden eating his breakfast but sadly its not often that useful.  One day it will be though and I will take great delight in using it.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I remember Arthur Marshall, writer and broadcaster saying on this subject.

" The French hate the English - and I hate them right back"


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Incidentally, you know how the Americans (of the USofA kind) refer to "Wales, England"?

Well, the French are as bad and refer to us all as "Eenglish"!

I take great delight in telling them that I am in fact from le Pays de Galles.

They understand and somehow become more friendly, especially in Brittany.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Same as you pippin. In my 'o' level French (1970) failed twice! I basically say. " sorry I do not speak French very well. I am from Ireland". 

Works wonders, although as they speak to me in English, I keep trying to reply in French.

Davy


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

pippin said:


> Incidentally, you know how the Americans (of the USofA kind) refer to "Wales, England"?
> 
> Well, the French are as bad and refer to us all as "Eenglish"!
> 
> ...


I suppose one could also point out to the French that, even in French, Bretagne is 'Grande', whereas France is only 'Belle':wink2:

In a Parisian restaurant one's meal might come rather late and cold - and spot the saliva:surprise:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Thank you barryd, I have seen this in action, not a pleasant sight.Was not you was it, 2006 September Niort.

I do attempt to use what little language I have, that particular occurrence I forgot my manners after being ignored with very little attempt to disguise his manner, for the world record on his behalf I think. I was extremely embarrassed afterwards.

Oh yes what is it with the French and swimwear for men rules on sites.:surprise::surprise:

cabby


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Je ne suis pas Anglais...je suis Gallois!  

...apologies on the spelling if incorrect. I didn't even do O Level French: I dropped it at 14 much to my chagrin! :smile2:

I only have fond memories of France and the French having visited many, many times and having never had a bad experience. I do my best at communicating in French which always goes down well. On balance I think the French are easily the equal to the Brits in politeness and friendliness, personally.

Oh and on the USA calling Wales..."Wales, England"...it used to amuse my American friends when I described their country as "USA, Canada". They soon got the message > Mind you I also call it 'the former colonies' and them lot 'bloody revolutionaries' and point out that they would be speaking Arapahoe if it wasn't for us :grin2:

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I can understand the confusion of foreigners about the distinction between

Great Britain

The British Isles

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Without throwing in the Channel Isles and IoM

AND the different relationships of the various constituents of the above definitions to the EU, EFTA, EEA and Schengen.

I bet if we set an exam for most of the Residents of the British Isles only about 10% would pass.

And they are the voters - Gaud help us.:surprise:


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> I can understand the confusion of foreigners about the distinction between
> 
> Great Britain
> 
> ...


Meanwhile the Dutch know us all: English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish as "English", no differentiation at all >


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Leffe NL said:


> Meanwhile the Dutch know us all: English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish as "English", no differentiation at all >


...and if we call them French, Belgian or German how happy would they be? >

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> ...and if we call them French, Belgian or German how happy would they be? >
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Well the English do describe their country as 'Holland', rather than the Netherlands, of which only 2 provinces are called N. and S. Holland. However they do not seem to object.

I think that some Netherlanders would not now appreciate the old description of their language as 'Low German' - anymore than the Swiss would of SchweizerDeutsch.

Geoff


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> Well the English do describe their country as 'Holland', rather than the Netherlands, of which only 2 provinces are called N. and S. Holland. However they do not seem to object.


Yes I had a chat with a Dutch family on this same subject last summer in N Italy. They had no issue with the country being called Holland as you say...

Nice folks

Graham :smile2:


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> I can understand the confusion of foreigners about the distinction between
> 
> Great Britain
> 
> ...


.......Oi! What about the Isle of Wight??????:serious:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

caulkhead said:


> .......Oi! What about the Isle of Wight??????:serious:


Where is that then?

Not that bit of chalk at the end of the very expensive WightLink ferry:surprise::laugh:

Anyway Wight it is part of the British Isles, as are Channel Islands, but they have a different legal status - Wight has (not yet) declared UDI:wink2:

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm OK with a bit of French and Spanish but now in Poland and everything is totally unintelligible like Turkish.
I can't even guess what shops are selling or the menu if it's not in English as well. Had to ask what Diesel is.??

Ray.


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## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

I agree that an attempt must be made to get any help at all. Otherwise they just block you. 

We are lazy with languages without doubt. The cause? the FACT that English is the world wide common language and we can't change (or help) that. Every pilot flying anywhere in the world MUST speak English. Even French Pilots. They really hate having to do so as do their ATC.. The flying school I qualified at (Perth Scone) had lots of Iraqis (spelling?) etc and a big part of the training was English language school. No English meant no go solo... 

A wee true story (laugh) ... I was 'pally' with a guy from Iraq called (of course) Ahmed who was doing a degree in Air frame Mech' with Air Service Training and was paying himself through a PPL with the flying school .. He came into the op's office one morning and I (Pulling his leg) told him it was his day for the mandatory parachute drop.. He went white, temporarily apparently, and just kinda giggled at me. I thought he had the joke ok an said no more.. LOL. Nope. He, as it turned out, was due a lesson with the schools fuhrer, a certain Captain Balgue (French Canadian) who in passing asked me if I had seen Ahmed. I said yes but had no idea where he was or went. Turns out he had shot off and got the bus back to his digs in Perth. Did not fancy the drop as it turned out. He had taken me seriously! LOL..

I did not half get roasted from the mad Captain B.... I just laughed my head off. Thought it quite hilarious. LOl 

Anyhoo ... Back to subject.... 


It's not our fault. 

How does a Chinese business man communicate in a meeting with (say) various EC nationals present? They have to speak English. 

But.. Good manners means at least trying to speak the language of the country one is in. it does go down very well. Even when quite wrong. Dont ask how I know but it did earn me a smack (playfully) round the mush. LOL 

Good health to all and safe driving too. Enjoy your Moho.... ;-) 

Alex.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

I always thought that Garcon meant boy.:smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

alexblack13 said:


> It's not our fault. ..........
> How does a Chinese business man communicate in a meeting with (say) various EC nationals present? They have to speak English.
> 
> Alex.


I thought the old proverb applied to all Nationalities or is it just the Germans???

_If I want to *sell* to you, I speak your language.....0

If you want to *sell* to me, I do *NOT* speak your language......._:surprise:

Certainly seems to be prevalent amongst the French too......

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Ray: 
Poland: 

"the menu if it's not in English as well. Had to ask what Diesel is.??"

Funny thing to have on a menu - diesel. 

Presumably it was on the drinks list?!!!


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Have the French gone backwards then? I remember it being absolutely essential to speak French when we visited years ago. On more recent visits they seemed to have thawed. We put it down to hearing that the EU declared that English was the language of choice in all European countries and the French President agreeing!


Feel ashamed that I don't speak enough French to hold more than a brief conversation, and grateful that they speak any English at all.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

pippin said:


> Ray:
> Poland:
> 
> "the menu if it's not in English as well. Had to ask what Diesel is.??"
> ...


Some of the restaurants look more like garages here Pip.
In fact many are in old coal cellars.

Ray.


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## Leffe NL (Jul 14, 2015)

GMJ said:


> ...and if we call them French, Belgian or German how happy would they be? >
> 
> Graham :smile2:


I do it all ze time >


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

We have lived in France for 7 years and still struggle to communicate in French. Cath (who is better than me - does pronouns type stuff) like *cabby* often blames the French for _*refusing*_ to understand her. However I usually don't think it is some sort of snub. In french pronunciation is far more important than in English - add to that context and gender. The same word can have a completely different meaning male or female. So if you get the le or la wrong - or miss it out it all adds to their confusion.
I never did French at school but I never expect anyone here to speak English. In rural France we have never encountered any anti English fealings - but we know there may be some who harbour it below the surface. In rural France we find everyone is incredibly polite - Vive France

Paul


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## deckboy (Sep 14, 2011)

cabby said:


> Menus are always only in French.I would not mind if they even used photos.


How many restaurants, cafes or bistros (French words  ) in UK print their menus in French (or German, Italian, Spanish)?
The only restaurants in UK that have menus in French are those pretending to be too upmarket for the likes of us 
When abroad we try to avoid places with photos of the food as it usually means the menu never changes and here in UK it's usually a fast food outlet.


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

It's not just the French who don't trust the English. Wherever we go in Europe, we always tell people we live in Wales, not England. This usually gets a friendly response, though not everybody knows where Wales is!

The French are very protective of their language, particularly the older generation who remember when French was the main language of business and politics within Europe. Now English has largely become the lingua franca, not because of the UK, but because of the USA, and some French people resent this. However, the younger people in France have been exposed to far more English, and tend to be more helpful.

It does help if you make an effort to communicate in French, and particularly if you try to get your pronunciation right for a few polite phrases. Indeed, politeness is very much appreciated. The first time John and I visited France was with our 5 children, then aged 3 to 16. Everywhere we went, we were told how very polite children from Wales were! Linda.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

deckboy said:


> we try to avoid places with photos of the food as it usually means the menu never changes and here in UK it's usually a fast food outlet.


Same here, we call it "ping food" as that is the name the microwave makes when it is cooked from pre-packaged frozen supplies ..........

*"PING" * your meal is ready Sir........... (but usually meant as CUR).....

Dave


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

I am in the minority here as I am fluent in French . Sorry.
Some have commented that they have noticed a thaw in recent years towards speaking English. This is mainly down to education. In the south, the first foreign language they learn is Spanish. Most people over 50 were never exposed to any English in school. Even now many younger kids dont learm English but have Spanish lessons from age 6. At one local school they only have a Spanish teacher who has now been asked to teach them English as well. Luckily there is an English boy at the school ( about age 5. ! ) who can help with the pronunciation. If nothing else, at least its helped him integrate.

Its very fashionable and cool to be able to speak English amongst the teenagers. " So British " is a current phrase.
So may be there is hope


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## gholt417 (Jan 30, 2010)

I must admit to having poor french language skills too but I have always seen it as my problem and not the French.
I have never had any issues or felt antipathy for being English either, mind you I usually say British anyway.
Roll on 20th May when I get the tunnel and try a bit more french (been using one of the apps to improve).
Graham


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

Another French speaker here (désolé!), and I admire the French for their stance towards the creeping ingress of English (as I myself dislike the penchant [see what I did there?] for Americanisms in English).

I was therefore as shocked as many French to hear that the official song for the French team in the Euro 16 tournament this year is actually in English! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36186486

I also begrudgingly admire the French department store assistants' ability to ignore customers while chatting to each other, and when interrupted with a polite "S'il vous plaît, madame?" will turn their head in slow motion, fix you with a look full of disdain, then pointedly turn back to their conversation, without ever having spoken a word.* They are particularly good at this in Paris, where I suspect it forms part of their training.

Steve

*Dear reader, this happened to me.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

"*Dear reader, this happened to me."

Vraiment?

_Mais oui_ - 
you can keep a very sagacious [!] conversation going by just interjecting _vraiment?_ at intervals.

Even though you haven't the foggiest (froggiest?!) idea of what is going on.


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