# Inconsiderate (MH) driver.



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Today I drove in our MH from Aberystwyth northwards on the A487 to Machynlleth.

Not the best of A roads with not too many passing points.

There was a massive queue of cars following a MH (Reg mark *** FJF).

I doubt the driver ever changed up from 3rd into 4th (let alone 5th) the whole 18 miles.

Totally oblivious to, or worse, well aware of the inconvenience he/she was causing to the traffic following.

There were plenty of places it could (and should) have pulled in to let the build up of traffic pass.

To my horror it turned onto the A493 heading towards Aberdyfi and I had to follow it for another couple of miles on an even twistier and narrow road - doubt it even shifted out of 2nd gear.

I know the road like the back of my hand so I was well prepared to overtake it at the earliest opportunity.

Sorry to say that I gave it a long blast on my horn as I passed.

The time? 17:00 just as Johnny Walker finished Sounds of the Seventies.

So, if the driver of Rimo (I think) *** FJF is a member on here - please be more considerate in future.


----------



## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

Clueless? Or deliberate??

Ether way not good. does us a lot of harm that.

AB


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

On the other hand Pippin, I have clearly indicated, eased over to the side of the road many many times, waved drivers past, and I would guess,well less than 50% bother to give a thank you wave or pap of the horn.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Most ignore flashing lights and left indicators of old, they either do not get it :roll: or are too chicken to pass or pull out, usually younger drivers though.

Yes I know it's easy to misinterpret these signals, but you do have to be a bit thick.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

On another thread about tractors being slow etc. I said then, if I see traffic behind me for a while I pull over at a convenient spot and let them pass even when in the car. Grath is right, not all give you a sign of thanks, but maybe they just say it and hope we are telepathic.
Actually we have a road in our area where one has to pull into passing places quite often, I always put my hand up to say thanks, I didn´t used to have a response, 10 years on quite a few now respond and even say thanks (hand wave) when I pull over for them. Thats progress :grin2:
Jan


----------



## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

*If only you'd had a Dashcam and recorded it for posterity ...........*


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Leave my *posterity* out of this!
(My bowel operation makes me sensitive to such thoughts!)

I forgot to mention that I too am a Gentleman of the Road - usually.

In the car and the MH if someone wants to pass then I let them do so at the earliest and safest opportunity.

I don't want to be involved in an accident caused by an impatient driver overtaking me dangerously.


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

I try hard to stick to speed limits, but accept that a minority ignore them and can drive quite aggressively. I'm happy to pull over and let that sort pass .............. they can drive into the back of someone else.

I also accept that when in my van I'm driving a big white box, giving restricted forward vision to those behind. It seems only right to pull over asap and let any traffic pass. The driver Pippin describes was downright thoughtless.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Just maybe, the last time he pulled over, which could have been earlier on his route, he got no thanks, so he thought why bother.
However, more likely, he couldn't be bothered:serious:
We will never know


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I pull over frequently to be helpful but also because I may not want to drive at the speed limit and do not want to be pressurised by others drivers behind.

The only time I am reluctant to pull over is on a very busy road where one could have a constant stream of traffic going past and it would then be difficult to join again - but in that case I speed up to the limit.

Geoff


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

What I find more annoying, and I find this more so in France, is that I am cruising at a steady 90 kph, both on single and dual carriageway., A car overtakes,just at the end of a dual carriageway, only to slow to 80kph when the dual turns into a single carriageway.:frown2:

or, they have to overtake, just to slow down 200 yds up the road to turn off


----------



## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Or you pull over to let a queue pass and on rejoining find they are now going no faster than you were anyway.:surprise:


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

It just goes to show how blissfully ignorant some drivers are of what's going on in the world around them. 

It used to happen to me all the time. I would be sat behind some brain dead numpty for mile after mile with Blue strobes, alternating headlights AND siren going then, at some point, they would decide it's time to glance in the mirror At that point they then SLAM THE BRAKES ON !!!

The other one would be where someone two cars ahead would see me coming and pull over, only for the jerk between us to pull out to pass, check their mirror when halfway past AND THEN BRAKE happened all the time.

Whilst on the subject if you see anything coming up from behind on "Twos and blues" please THINK before just braking. Sometimes it's better to actually speed up until there is a suitable location for them to pass. Likewise IF you stop PLEASE keep your foot on the brake pedal, that keeps the brake lights lit and shows the response driver that you are aware they are there and you are NOT going to move, it's a little thing that makes their job SO much easier. 

When I am dragging my wobbly box I always try and let anyone past as soon as possible, HOWEVER there have been occasions where I have pulled into lay-bys etc to facilitate someone passing to be greeted by a blast on the horn and the w****r hand signal from driver and/or passenger :frown2:

Just goes to show you can't please all the people all of the time.

Andy


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Agree Andy, only the other day, I pointed out to Mrs G, a plonker who panicked when he noticed blues coming up behind.
This driver stopped on the road junction, but did not allow room for the vehicles behind him, so the ambulance coming from behind them all, had to come to a complete stop:surprise:
What a plonker:frown2:


----------



## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

They should go to Scotland to see how it *should* be done!

Up in the far north, where many roads are single track with passing places, I found everyone incredibly courteous, which encourages you to do the same - I was forever pulling in to let people past and, on just about every occasion, received a cheery wave for my efforts.

The only times it went slightly wrong were when I saw somebody coming the other way in the distance, so pulled into the next passing place, only to realise that they had done exactly the same, out of sight of each other! You then have this game of chicken where you have to decide whether to just sit and wait, or pull on ahead...

Morph


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah they are out there !!!!

The trouble being, to my mind, if they cannot work out how to Get out of the ******g way in those circumstance what are they going to do if presented with some other form of incident which requires them to take immediate and decisive action???? The problem is that the common instinct always seems to be BRAKE. There have been a number of occasions that I can recall where that would actually have resulted in me being involved in a serious collision, once when I had the whole family in the car. Rather than brake I simply turned left onto a wide grass verge, bounced along a bit and then returned to the road after the [email protected] who was overtaking the oncoming artic had passed by. A couple of weeks later I dealt with a fatal at EXACTLY the same location, this time the driver had merely braked and remained on the road and was hit by the oncoming vehicle. 

So when driving always keep your eyes out for "an alternative course" it's better to wreck a wheel and tyre than die !!!!

Andy


----------



## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

*We have problems with the slow animals in the Peak National Park .....*


----------



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Was that on a trunk road Keith?





Pete


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> Whilst on the subject if you see anything coming up from behind on "Twos and blues" please THINK before just braking. Sometimes it's better to actually speed up until there is a suitable location for them to pass. Likewise IF you stop PLEASE keep your foot on the brake pedal, that keeps the brake lights lit and shows the response driver that you are aware they are there and you are NOT going to move, it's a little thing that makes their job SO much easier.
> 
> Andy


Andy

In that circumstance, which I usually see coming when the police are 100-200m behind, my normal action is to put the nearside indicator on, pull close to the kerb and slow down, but not brake, on the basis that your cars have enough umph to get past in seconds. I make sure I am not opposite a traffic island or a vehicle in the middle of the road waiting to turn right(in UK)

Is this acceptable for you guys? Would you prefer we came to a complete stop?

Geoff


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

KeithChesterfield said:


> *We have problems with the slow animals in the Peak National Park .....*


We have an e!ephant warden in SE Hampshire. Haven't seen any elephants around for donkeys years!

I always get a little nervous when so some one is following close behind. It spoils my lethargic driving style so II more than happy to pull over and wave them on.


----------



## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

I had a friend who as doing a lap of the TT course many years ago on a nice sunny day. He started to go up the mountain section and after a while the mist came down. Not an unusual occurrence.
He was worried at the speed a lot of the bikes were overtaking him, especially when the mist got thicker near the top. His speed had dropped to about 10/20 mph and the bikes were going past him at suicidal speeds so he decided to pull in and have a rest. 
He stopped at the side of the road and flipped his visor up to discover that it was still a bright sunny day and his visor had misted up on the inside.
He sloped back to Douglas and kept a low profile.
Even in those days most of the bikes would have been travelling at 120+ mph.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I dont usually have a problem as I'm generally the one trying to overtake, even in the van but I do tend to go slowly coming down mountains in the van to avoid overheating the brakes but Ive given up pulling over or slowing down with an indicator on to let traffic past in France. It doesn't work. All they do is just pull over behind you.  I think this is possibly because your average French driver doesn't look much further ahead than about 2ft from the end of their bonnet. Having said that I would rather do battle each day on the roads in Europe than I would in the UK. Much less aggressive if probably more annoying.

Slightly off topic but a question for Andy. Why did the Rozzers get rid of the Der, Der, Der, Der sirens in the 80's and replace them with the American Woo, Woo's? I think you could hear the Der Der's much better but maybe I just got pulled over more in those days.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> I dont usually have a problem as I'm generally the one trying to overtake, even in the van but I do tend to go slowly coming down mountains in the van to avoid overheating the brakes but Ive given up pulling over or slowing down with an indicator on to let traffic past in France. It doesn't work. All they do is just pull over behind you.  I think this is possibly because your average French driver doesn't look much further ahead than about 2ft from the end of their bonnet. Having said that I would rather do battle each day on the roads in Europe than I would in the UK. Much less aggressive if probably more annoying.
> 
> Slightly off topic but a question for Andy. Why did the Rozzers get rid of the Der, Der, Der, Der sirens in the 80's and replace them with the American Woo, Woo's? I think you could hear the Der Der's much better but maybe I just got pulled over more in those days.


I have had a few French doing the stopping behind me, but they usually pass when they see the sign in the back window saying 'Tea's Up'. :grin2:

Actually this year I think we got 50% recognition for pulling over - especially when I immediately indicated to pull out again and they realised I had stopped just to let them pass - often I did not actually stop, just slowed in a lay-by till they passed.

On the police sirens, you probably will not remember the Police Wolesleys that just had a bell on the front bumper - featured in a series exiting the old Scotland Yard (on The Embankment) - can't remember the title, but the 'Lead' policeman was an actor called Raymond .......? with a 'tache.

Help me out somebody please.

Geoff


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

From memory you are probably thinking of Raymond Francis in "No Hiding Place".


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Geoff

Can't really give a totally definitive answer to your question as every incident is different, having said that it's clear that you give the matter a fair bit of thought so I would think you get it right pretty much all the time BECAUSE (unlike the majority of numpties out there) you are very aware of what is going on all around you, rather than the bit of ground the size of a cricket wicket that's directly in front of you. Apparently some academic did a study about how far ahead people look when driving and the cricket wicket is about the norm, which if you think about it, might explain why the are so many rear Enders on the motorways!! 

One of the things I will always remember about my police driver training was,for the first two weeks, hearing the instructior constantly saying "Get your observations FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, that way you won't get taken by surprise" Know what???? The ***** was right!

Barry

The change from two tones to sirens/wailers was (so I was told at the time) because the sound of two tones can get lost in amongst all the other noise but sirens (at a much higher pitch) cut through the background noise. I tend to agree with that analysis as it seemed to me that I would get an earlier reaction from motorists after we switched to sirens. 

I do sometimes miss the opportunity to "Have a blat" but I sure DONT miss the paperwork/grief/night duty/earlies or for that matter actually having to go to work. Retirement?? I ****** LOVE IT !!!

Andy


----------



## blondel (Jun 12, 2005)

Morphology said:


> They should go to Scotland to see how it *should* be done!
> 
> Up in the far north, where many roads are single track with passing places, I found everyone incredibly courteous, which encourages you to do the same - I was forever pulling in to let people past and, on just about every occasion, received a cheery wave for my efforts.
> 
> ...


We are considerate drivers, pulling in to let other vehicles pass when safe to do so BUT remember an occasion on a single track main road in Scotland when we pulled into a pub carpark for a break only to be followed by an irate "gentleman" who claimed to have been following us for miles:surprise: Well we hadn't seen him as he had been so close behind he could not be seen in our mirrors. He then added insult to injury when he shouted - use your rear view mirror! and was very surprised when he was told we didn't have one. if he had been following us for as long as he claimed he might have noticed that the back was minus a window.

We now have a sign reminding following vehicles - If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you. Don't know if it helps but makes us feel better :smile2:


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> One of the things I will always remember about my police driver training was,for the first two weeks, hearing the instructior constantly saying "Get your observations FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, that way you won't get taken by surprise" Know what???? The ***** was right!
> 
> Andy


During my last 7 years work, then as a professional driver, when I think I started as a competent driver(doesn't everyone think that?) I definitely improved, particularly in my forward perception as Andy said(but he could have added 'rearward perception'). My 'Advanced Driving' course at 5 years produced almost no comment.

Reward perception - additionally using the 'inside' wing mirror on a gently-curving road to spot what is happening in the 'outside mirror' blind spot 500m behind you - essential on German Autobahns, where some drivers are coming up on you at 130mph i.e. closing speed of maybe 60mph - it happens in seconds.

Just to add to Andy's comment about his Police driving course, I remember watching a documentary showing Police drivers having to annunciate out loud the perceived hazards ahead and why they were driving as they were. I recommend anyone to try the excecise for themselves. I have been using it in my head for years.

For example: " I am driving behind a truck and have limited forward view, but I can see Zebra crossing markings in view, the truck might have to stop suddenly, I should be ready."

Andy could think of better examples.

Geoff


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> One of the things I will always remember about my police driver training was,for the first two weeks, hearing the instructior constantly saying "Get your observations FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, that way you won't get taken by surprise" Know what???? The ***** was right!
> 
> Andy


During my last 7 years work, then as a professional driver, when I think I started as a competent driver(doesn't everyone think that?) I definitely improved, particularly in my forward perception as Andy said(but he could have added 'rearward perception'). My 'Advanced Driving' course at 5 years produced almost no comment.

Reward perception - but additionally using the 'inside' wing mirror on a gently-curving road to spot what is happening in the 'outside mirror' blind spot 500m behind you - essential on German Autobahns, where some drivers are coming up on you at 130mph i.e. closing speed of maybe 60mph - it happens in seconds.

Just to add to Andy's comment about his Police driving course; I remember watching a documentary showing Police drivers having to annunciate out loud the perceived hazards ahead and why they were driving as they were. I recommend anyone to try the excecise for themselves. I have been using it in my head for years.

For example: " I am driving behind a truck and have limited forward view, but I can see Zebra crossing markings in view, the truck might have to stop suddenly, I should be ready."

Andy could think of better examples.

Geoff


----------



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

and it looks like we will be getting new emergency sirens in the UK

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-siren-call-of-the-road-for-emergency-vehicles-1601094.html


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I started as a young kid, two speeds, flat out or hard on the brakes:surprise:
But that taught me to look well ahead, the horizon, and driving heavy trucks confirmed that> Look ahead and see as far as you can:smile2:
The trouble with accidents, they are not on the horizon, but are right by you:surprise:
But if you have looked far up the road,you do have a better idea of what is coming.
When I am driving, I do seem to think, I am like a radar scanner, as I am automatically scanning everywhere, it's just an automatic thing:laugh:
But I have noticed, and I think we all should be aware and admit this to ourselves, my driving has deteriorated as I am getting older:surprise:


----------



## delawaredandy (Oct 12, 2012)

So picture the scene, there you are quite happily make progress along the lovely roads in the New Forest when suddenly you come up behind this little plastic **** of a car called a G-Wizz doing just about 30 mph (speed limit at this point was 50 mph) so due to the bends and undulations in the road even with a decent vehicle there is no safe place to over take, so you have no option but to sit behind him/her, in the meantime everyone and his wife as decided to join the convoy.

There they all are getting really pi**ed off because some dickh**d M/H has decided to go out for a Sunday morning drive, but wait there is a decent bit of road coming up where one can safely overtake, go for it says the missus and I do, we safely pass the plastic **** G-Wizz leaving them to eat donkey sh*t and dust.

After that the road got a bit bendy again, so what happened to the other cars !! don't know but I never saw any of them in my mirrors again so I can only assume they are still stuck behind the plastic **** in the New Forest.:wink2::wink2:


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

May I add, not only should we be aware of what is going on ahead, but also whats coming up from behind. I check my mirrors regularly and always have.
Some years ago I cannot remember the full details, I had just joined a very busy motorway where several motorways joined, a car had stopped in the middle lane on which I was travelling, I overtook him on the inside lane because seconds before I had seen a car coming up on the outside lane. Hans was shocked I had overtaken on the inside lane until he saw the other car overtaking on the outside lane. Had I not have noticed this car coming, who knows, I might not have been typing this now.
Jan
P.S. Just noticed the above `Who knows whats around the corner` how true


----------



## Revise (May 13, 2012)

I was a HGV driver for 20 years. The company paid for the lessons and the instructor was very thorough and everything had to be perfect. During lessons he would ask things like what are the last two signposts you past. How many cars are behind you and what colour are they (without looking) Observation was very important to him. And part of his teaching was always be courteous and let other cars pass. 

I remember one time we had an ars*hole in an XR3I trying to get pas us for 2 miles, but we could not stop to let him past. Eventually he took a chance on a blind bend and got past. Luckily nothing was coming the other way. He gave us the 2 fingers and W*nkers sign. About a 3 mile's down the road we came to a large skid mark with a car on its roof. Two idiots were lucky to get out alive. We stopped and offered to help but just then a police car came the other way so we just carried on driving.


----------



## Revise (May 13, 2012)

MrPlodd.

Can you answer this question. As this happened the other day by our house.

I was sitting at the traffic lights and the lights had a camera on for people going through red lights. A police car came up behind us with its blues and twos on. If I were to go through the lights to let them through. Would I be braking the law, or should I just sit their and wait for the lights to change. If I went through I could not wait in the middle as I would have blocked all the traffic. At the time the traffic was very heavy. BTW I waited and Mr Policeman was none too happy with me.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I do believe that you would be breaking the law if you disregarded the Red light, however if the Police officer instructed you to move you may do so, providing it was safe for you to do so. 

I am sure Andy/or other, will correct me if wrong.

cabby


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

That's a REAL problematic situation, I understand that in identical circumstances, drivers HAVE been prosecuted. If it was me I think I would probably inch forward JUST enough to allow them to pass. Red light cameras also have a speed recording function (to show that anyone going through the red light wasn't doing 2-5mph. That way I think I would have good chance of getting off (or rather not being prosecuted which is a tad different) I have a dash cam (with sound) and i would be VERY careful to download and save the footage just in case. 

Technically in the above situation the offence is complete, bloody stupid in my view but until the law is altered there is not a lot that can be done OTHER than contacting the police issuing the ticket to explain the circumstances should the need arise.

Andy


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Creep round the kerb towards the side road? - maybe the camera angle does not cover that wide?


----------



## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Due to bollards I could not get on the kerb, I could not go any further forward. I was basically stuck. I thought if I moved forward and caused an accident it would be my fault. So i just did not move. After about 20 seconds the lights changed so I moved forward onto a duel carriage way and let him past. The policeman in the passenger seat gave me a few hand gestures. Maybe he was waving to me.:wink2: But other cars were also sounding their horn at me to move out of the way. But at least I know I won't be getting a ticket.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

May I ask why the police car did not go around the bollards on the wrong side of the road.
I am sure that I read that a driver must obey signals given by a police officer.

cabby


----------



## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Not sure. I think he might have got stuck on the grass verge trying to cross. 
If a police officer is behind you in a car, what signal does he give to ask you to move forward through a red light? Then if I have an accident I would be to blame. 

Found this on google as a drivers have been done for this before.

The Driving Standards Agency said there are no official guidelines on motorists moving out of the way of emergency vehicles. A spokesman said Rule 219 of the Highway Code says motorists should consider the route of the emergency vehicle and take appropriate action to allow it to pass while complying with traffic signs.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> During my last 7 years work, then as a professional driver, when I think I started as a competent driver(doesn't everyone think that?) I definitely improved, particularly in my forward perception as Andy said(but he could have added 'rearward perception'). My 'Advanced Driving' course at 5 years produced almost no comment.
> 
> Reward perception - additionally using the 'inside' wing mirror on a gently-curving road to spot what is happening in the 'outside mirror' blind spot 500m behind you - essential on German Autobahns, where some drivers are coming up on you at 130mph i.e. closing speed of maybe 60mph - it happens in seconds.
> 
> ...


I watched that same documentary Geoff I think, and thought it a good idea, year later when I started driving professionally it stood me in good stead, I still look as far up the road as possible every few seconds, mainly for brake lights, as a fuel saving exercise alone it's unbeatable, rearward observation seems to be a thing of the past as are most of the road manners we were taught yonks ago, watching the road surface was another must as I was a motorcycle courier for a couple of years, ignore that at your peril, especially at traffic islands around 5-6am.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

What we actually required to do was to provide a running commentary, listing all sorts of things and explaining our actions. Not so bad on a A class country road at 50mph but having to do it on the same road at 100 is a different matter. We had to recognise the issue explain and comment BEFORE actually reaching it. Failing to include something important was NOT an option. Not easy. 

On one final drive I had to commentate for over 40 minutes (and that's a long time!) When I asked the examiner why he kept me going for so long his reply was "You were doing such an excellent job I wanted to see just how long you could keep it up, I felt sorry for you in the end so that's when I told you to stop!" 

It is a very worthwhile thing to try and do, it certainly makes you more aware of your surroundings

For example......

"I am approaching a pelican crossing, someone is walking towards it, mirror check, one following vehicle at a safe distance, pedestrian is pressing the button so signals might change, lift off and lower the veh speed by acceleration sense, that being the ability of the driver to alter the vehicles speed by accurate use of the accelerator to meet changing road and traffic conditions, lights changing to red, I am braking gently in order to try and keep the vehicle moving, following vehicle closing up, pedestrian clear of the crossing, mirror check, select correct gear for lower vehicle speed, increase speed up to that which is safe, dustbins on the verge ahead so I am prepared for refuse Lorry and men in the road, I can also smell cut grass so the council might be out cutting the grass there might be cuttings on the road which will increase my braking distance, mirror check, there is now a motorcyclist close behind so I must allow for that if I need to brake suddenly".................... That if you read it aloud is less than a minutes worth, And you have to keep that up for a looooong time, and keep it relevant oh and of course drive perfectly at the same time all the time. Phew!,,

Andy


----------



## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

Mrplodd said:


> Geoff
> 
> Can't really give a totally definitive answer to your question as every incident is different, having said that it's clear that you give the matter a fair bit of thought so I would think you get it right pretty much all the time BECAUSE (unlike the majority of numpties out there) you are very aware of what is going on all around you, rather than the bit of ground the size of a cricket wicket that's directly in front of you. Apparently some academic did a study about how far ahead people look when driving and the cricket wicket is about the norm, which if you think about it, might explain why the are so many rear Enders on the motorways!!
> 
> ...


I think it should be compulsory to pass a motorcycle test before you take a car test.That makes you look ahead and be more aware of what is around you!


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> What we actually required to do was to provide a running commentary, listing all sorts of things and explaining our actions. Not so bad on a A class country road at 50mph but having to do it on the same road at 100 is a different matter. We had to recognise the issue explain and comment BEFORE actually reaching it. Failing to include something important was NOT an option. Not easy.
> 
> On one final drive I had to commentate for over 40 minutes (and that's a long time!) When I asked the examiner why he kept me going for so long his reply was "You were doing such an excellent job I wanted to see just how long you could keep it up, I felt sorry for you in the end so that's when I told you to stop!"
> 
> ...


Andy

Thanks. Very interesting and a pleasant surprise to note that my driving mirrors yours - even to the extent of things similar to grass cuttings, but in another case; how fresh and wet is the mud on the road in order to affect any necessary braking and anticipating a slow moving tractor ahead round the bend. I also look out for feet showing underneath parked high-sided vehicles - delivery river or pedestrian may peer or step out blind, so I keep a bit further out and am ready to brake.

One mistake a lot of people I drive with, (including my partner who was a driving instructor!), is failure to select the gear they need to pull away, after slowing down for a corner/bend etc., until they need it, instead of anticipating it *in advance*.

I am sure I also have faults, but I try hard to minimise them by being self-critical. I think there are a lot of drivers who are just not self-aware of how they drive - this is where the excercise you describe can be very useful for all of us to get better.

Anyone reading Andy's example should try it.

Geoff


----------



## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

I am mildly concerned that an increasing number of fellow motorhomers are checking my driving style and will report any bad behaviour on forums. I'd much prefer a friendly wave. The Monkey Experiment, which is probably a myth, highlights you learn more from positive endorsement of what you do right than negative criticism [no such thing as constructive criticism] of what you do wrong.

I was sent on a Defensive Driving Course by my previous employers who calculated one of us would die on the road within 10 years based on our current driving styles and general traffic statistics. Best thing they ever did for me. I'm not sure whether I am a better driver although I am more self aware when I am not driving as well as I should. I am also far more relaxed. I don't bother now when people's driving style differs from me; I just adapt and say "tsk".

By the way, it wasn't me on the A487/493 and I don't condone inconsiderate driving.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

jo662 said:


> I think it should be compulsory to pass a motorcycle test before you take a car test.That makes you look ahead and be more aware of what is around you!


The roads would be less crowded too.


----------



## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

After driving round Oulton Park last Sunday I think I may be able to better understand what is going on when some people are driving slowly. 
I fully intended to try out the paddle gear selectors after a few laps. The problem was that, even in the wet, corners were coming at me so quickly that there was no room in my brain to move my fingers and change gear. (it had a good auto box).
All I could manage was to negotiate each corner and maybe think where I should be when I exited. Things like giving a commentary and pretty much doing anything else would have been unthinkable. I guess that some people may also, perhaps through age etc, be driving on the roads in a similar state of sensory overload.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

BillCreer said:


> After driving round Oulton Park last Sunday I think I may be able to better understand what is going on when some people are driving slowly.
> I fully intended to try out the paddle gear selectors after a few laps. The problem was that, even in the wet, corners were coming at me so quickly that there was no room in my brain to move my fingers and change gear. (it had a good auto box).
> All I could manage was to negotiate each corner and maybe think where I should be when I exited. Things like giving a commentary and pretty much doing anything else would have been unthinkable. I guess that some people may also, perhaps through age etc, be driving on the roads in a similar state of sensory overload.


Scary thought Bill.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

BillCreer said:


> After driving round Oulton Park last Sunday I think I may be able to better understand what is going on when some people are driving slowly.
> I fully intended to try out the paddle gear selectors after a few laps. The problem was that, even in the wet, corners were coming at me so quickly that there was no room in my brain to move my fingers and change gear. (it had a good auto box).
> All I could manage was to negotiate each corner and maybe think where I should be when I exited. Things like giving a commentary and pretty much doing anything else would have been unthinkable. I guess that some people may also, perhaps through age etc, be driving on the roads in a similar state of sensory overload.


Conclusion?

Driving too fast for the conditions and your ability maybe?

I know it was Oulton Park, but it is a combination often found in the cause of accidents - particularly 'boy-racers' from age 15 to ........

What were you driving?


----------



## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

nicholsong said:


> Conclusion?
> 
> Driving too fast for the conditions and your ability maybe?
> 
> ...


Yes Geoff I was undoubtedly driving too fast for my ability but it was a "one off" in a situation where I could only be a danger to myself.

The cars were 425bhp BMW M4s. It was their high speed and ability to accelerate at all times at a phenomenal rate, despite the condition, that made the straits almost none existent and gave no time to mentally catch up.

I think if you if you have those feelings when you are first learning to drive on the roads then it's OK and normal but if it happens later in life then it's time to pack it in.


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> The roads would be less crowded too.


But possibly the hospitals wouldn't be.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

rayc said:


> But possibly the hospitals wouldn't be.


My point exactly Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

How many of you have flat caps huh? Own up. I bet the bloke holding everyone up in the OP had one. I think there is some sort of rule that flat cap wearers cannot exceed 22mph, anywhere. 

Those people with the little fish symbol on the back are in cahoots with them as well.

Am I right or am I right?


----------



## delawaredandy (Oct 12, 2012)

Mrplodd said:


> What we actually required to do was to provide a running commentary, listing all sorts of things and explaining our actions. Not so bad on a A class country road at 50mph but having to do it on the same road at 100 is a different matter. We had to recognise the issue explain and comment BEFORE actually reaching it. Failing to include something important was NOT an option. Not easy.
> 
> On one final drive I had to commentate for over 40 minutes (and that's a long time!) When I asked the examiner why he kept me going for so long his reply was "You were doing such an excellent job I wanted to see just how long you could keep it up, I felt sorry for you in the end so that's when I told you to stop!"
> 
> ...


Andy I assume by your comments you have only recently retired (good man) I worked for BMW's in Bracknell during the mid 80's and drove a lot of company cars and motorbikes (great fun) BMW's had a policy back then that all employees who drove company vehicles had to go on an advanced drivers course, this was through a company set up by a couple of retired ex police driving instructors, the course consisted of 2 days driving and 1 day on a skid pan at Thruxton race circuit.

I had to do my running commentary going through Henley-on-Thames during Henley regatta week !!, it was probably only about 10 minutes worth from myself but the course I believe was probably one of the best bits of tuition/instruction I have ever received and stood me in good stead for the rest of my driving years, oh and as for the skid pan what fun that was, it's not often one can play at being a baddie and then to be chased by the 50 :grin2::grin2:


----------



## delawaredandy (Oct 12, 2012)

jo662 said:


> I think it should be compulsory to pass a motorcycle test before you take a car test.That makes you look ahead and be more aware of what is around you!


Maybe not compulsory, but yes I agree it does give one a better perspective of the road ahead knowing that if you don't look out more, chances are that somebody else will try and take you out. :wink2::wink2:

M


----------



## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

barryd said:


> How many of you have flat caps huh? Own up. I bet the bloke holding everyone up in the OP had one. I think there is some sort of rule that flat cap wearers cannot exceed 22mph, anywhere.
> 
> Those people with the little fish symbol on the back are in cahoots with them as well.
> 
> Am I right or am I right?


Yeah, I'll own up to having a flat cap.....

......and a Fedora, a Trilby, a couple of straw hats, a couple of berets, two top hats, and I'm currently contemplating a brown Bowler hat.....

Mind you, if I *did* have a fish symbol (which I don't) it'd be one of these:


----------

