# Selling a strip of land with a garage on it



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We have the opportunity to sell a piece of land which has our garage on it to our our neighbour, we only have access rights to it, no parking in front of the garage, so as far as we're concerned it's a storage place, it does have light and power, and an electric roller shutter.

Liz has asked me to seek forum advice in case anyone has done similar.

To complicate matters, the neighbour has a groundworks business, and has (verbally) offered to put in a new drive, a hard standing for the van and build a new brick garage, which on the face of it is a very good deal and will save us upwards of £20k.

We were wondering what and how is the best way to go about getting it all done legally and properly so there are no regrets or comebacks on either side.

See picture for where everything is.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You MUST get professional advice - unless you get that you could find a legal problem in the future - perhaps not with the current owner but a future one.....

On the face of it the deal looks sensible but you might like to include a Covenant about not parking ground working machinery on the land (or perhaps no MH 😁😥 )

But get advice not just opinion.

That is my opinion anyway...... 🤣


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kev


Personally I'd approach the local Planning Dept. I have had dealings with them in my current and my last house and have found them to be really good and very helpful.


A quick phone call cost you nowt but will give you an indication if you can do what you want to do...plus you havent put anything in writing at that stage so are not 'on the record', so to speak...


If the conversation does verge on the positive you can always refer to it if you do have to put in a 'pre planning' or a full planning application. I recently put in a 'pre planning' enquiry off the back of a phone call and it cost me £25 (Carmarthenshire Council).


The 'pre planning' enquiries are just that: the council can then assess the viability of the proposal; then approve it without full Planning; or suggest that it needs a full Planning Application; or tell you that you have no chance!


I recently submitted one covering installation of a wood burner; 4 Velux windows in the attic rooms; returning a garage back to a garage (installation of a 9 foot wide garage door); and building a small porch on the back of our bungalow. All on one pre planning enquiry for £25, all approved in writing...so no issues in the future if we ever sell.




Graham :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Having sold some land recently we do have some knowledge. Selling the land itself does not need planning permission. Whatever is done to land may need planning permission. Changing from agricultural land to garden land or garden land to buildings for instance needs to be notified to the planning department.

What the new owner does with the land will be between him and the planning department but you could put restrictions on it to protect your quality of life. Solicitors are great at knowing the sorts of things people get up to, such as growing huge hedges that cut out peoples light or shed leaves everywhere, using the driveway for heavy haulage night and day etc. Remember he could sell up and move and others move in.

There are regulations on "visibility splays" when exiting a driveway onto a public road. They are not retrospective so the existing ones will be fine but your new one to your garage may not be? I would, as a precaution, clear back any trees or shrubs that block the view from the proposed exit point of the new driveway onto the highway. We have a clause on our deeds now that say we must keep our front boundary clear of trees and hedges so that our new neighbours can exit their driveway safely. The splay can be quite long!

Have you asked the other neighbour his opinion?

We are allowed to build extensions, up to a certain square meterage (I think it equates to about a third of the size of the house?). without needing planning permission but we do need Building Regulations compliance. They are two different things. If a builder does the building then this should not be a problem as they will know the building regs for their local authority and will, hopefully, comply. Not sure if a garage comes under the term "extension" but it would seem very likely and so would not need planning permission. Not sure it would even need to be subject to building regulations as it is not a residential unit. It may also come under the term "temporary" which, as long as no one lives in it, gives lots of freedom. As above, a free phone call to the relevant department should give you that information. 

On paper it looks as though it is a very sensible thing to do and would add value to your house to have your garage closer. Make sure you leave us all room to plonk ourselves outside for the night


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Just re read the first paragraph and it reads like you don't need proper drawings. You must get the drawings done by a qualified person and the sale done through solicitors. It will all then be registered at the Land Registry.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm colour blind Kev.
But we were going to sell 1000 sq.m. of our land and was advised against it by the local estate agent as any buyer of our house would expect more land rather than less.

Ray.


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## wug (May 19, 2011)

The first thing I would want to know is why does he want to buy a piece of land which on the face of it has little commercial value. Of course he may not tell you if he has plans to build a block of flats, but you could make an educated guess. But having sold the land you have no control over what he does with it, unless you place a covenant on the land. In which case he may no longer be interested. But even a restrictive covenant can be negotiated away, usually at a price.

But as said above you have to get good advice from your solicitor, maybe a land/planning agent as well. PatP covers this well And don't make any verbal promises in front of witnesses.

I too sold some land, but it was well away from the house, but I did have some problems with a property that had shared access to my agricultural buildings. So I put in a new road.

Graham


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Chris just reminded me that you only need permission for a new driveway entrance, if there was not one there before, if it accesses onto an A, B or C class road. If it is a residential road or unclassified country lane then, at least around this neck of the woods, no permission is necessary and you can put your driveway entrance where you like.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The slice of land only goes to the neighbours house anyway, there is a wall between his land, then it's our other neighbours land which has a drive going through it which we only have foot access across, so he can do whatever he likes with it, at it's widest point is where the garage is which is 12 feet wide, then it tapers to zero, it's one of those historical things.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

strips of land can be a right PITA especially when they are used as "ransom strips" to prevent things taking place. we used to own a ground floor flat in an old building that was originally owned by the large hotel next door (originally used for staff residences back in the day) but was sold when it no longer became of use to them for development into flats. but the hotel kept a metre strip of land at the back of the building to prevent the developers building out beyond the building line and then they built a fence to separate the hotel car park from the building, the strip was used with consent by the ground floor flat owners as both an emergency fire exit (into the car park) and as a general storage area. 

when we came to sell the flat we had a keen buyer but he wouldn't exchange without ownership of that strip; the hotel wouldn't sell unless we coughed £35K which the buyer said we'd have to pay; we told both sides to sod off; and this protracted back and fore dragged on for 6 months before we told the buyer to stuff it and waste someone else's time. the strip of land had no practical value beyond pissing everyone off! in the end we found a buyer who was happy to proceed under the arrangements we'd had with the hotel - informal use, but no ownership


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We have a similar strip of land (farm track) beside our house. It leads to fields behind our house but we can use it to access the rear of our back garden. It is an informal arrangement between us and the farm next door and has worked well for the over 35 years we have been here. The previous owners also used it in a similar manner. When we were selling up we told everyone about the strip and had no problems with any of them accepting this arrangement. It is not, however, on our deeds.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well it SEEMS pretty straightforward BUT land issues can have a habit of going VERY moody at some indeterminate time in the future if the contract of sale isnt up to the job.

I do wonder why your neighbour is offering you SO much for your current garage rather than just building one on his own land, or is the plot of land much bigger than the garage, perhaps he has plans to build another house using some of it??

From what I can see from your picture your garage is separated from the rest of your property by a driveway anyway so you are not going to lose any garden etc, just storage space .

Like others though I would suggest you seek legal advice BEFORE making any decision. Be aware that you MAY WELL need planning consent for any hard-standing over 5m square because of the issue of where any rainwater run-off will drain into (brought in because people were concreting over their front gardens and the extra run off impacts the local surface water drains) Because it would appear any water could drain off onto nearby land you might not need PP, but best to check first eh?

Our local Planning Office will NOT give any free advice, not even over the phone.

Also dont forget about the power supply to the garage, you might want to terminate it or insist on the new owner has a meter installed. Dont want him running a long extension lead and heating his house on YOUR electric do you??

In the event of you selling I would suggest you get the provision of the new garage & hard-standing along with a firm completion date written into any contract of sale along with a covenant to prevent any building OTHER than the existing garage being erected on the plot just in case!!!!!

Most solicitors will now give you an initial 30 minute consultation for free (in the anticipation they might get some business out of you.

Maybe I'm just a suspicious sort but I keep reverting back to "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is" It MAY well be this is an excellent deal, but you need to be sure of that fact before signing anything.

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

He has no need of the garage as he has two double garages under his house, he parks in one every night, he wants the garage gone as he looks down on it from his house, he also has the drive to himself then, and the 80 foot strip of garden to do with what he likes, he has a fear of the house being sold to a family that has lots of taxis and he will lose his drive.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

That sounds very plausible. I would feel the same if I were him.

When we sold our land we were going to donate a piece of it to the village for a wildlife sanctuary. It would have meant a footpath running beside our house to reach it and the likelihood of people overlooking us/causing a nuisance if they visited it. Though, in principle, we thought it a good idea we did not go ahead as the thought of Joe Public trotting up and down our boundary line put us off. Coughed up a voluntary donation instead for the Parish Council to spend as they wished. It is all, in the end, about a nice outlook and quality of life.


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## swanny65 (Sep 12, 2014)

Like others have said it needs to be tied up legally. There will need to be a planning application for your new garage and changes to the title deeds for your property and/or garage with Land Registry - you may already have two separate titles for the garage and the house, if not the garage and strip of land will need to be separated and given there own title.

In my area the planning officer will give you free advice on the likelihood of being granted permission for a new garage. On the face of it this sounds straightforward but it might not be. When my in laws bought the property that adjoins my property, they gave me the bottom of their garden which included an old pre-fab garage (this resulted in a change in both properties land registry's titles which was done by my solicitor). I offered to build them a new garage and a double garage for my self. However when I spoke with the planning officer they said they would not accept the application as I already had a garage. Solution join my garage to the house and make into a room then the new garages could be built. Just a long way of saying you may need to tell the planning officer you will build the new garage after the original is sold.

Looking at the picture if I were you, and you don't need the garage, then first up I would be speaking the the planning officer about the likelihood of getting planning permission to convert the garage to a small chalet bungalow - I think your neighbour could easily do the same, maybe as a granny annex, as they have wider access they could use. Would be worth a hell of a lot more to you and them than the £20K. A bit off topic but worth thinking about.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Very odd, but I posted on Owners and on here a couple of days ago, but it's vanished from here.


The neighbour came round last night, I'd texted him about the van still being in his way and to ring me, but he came at tea time, didn't want to come as we were eating , and just wanted to say the van wasn't a problem.

Anyway we talked about the drive for a while, we got into the details a bit more and he could see we were being cautious and wanting it all above board, so he said he'd just do the drive when we were ready, and sort the garage and land out later, he reckons he'd have about £10k in it when finished, including a brick built garage, and the dropped kerb etc, he's even going to get his lads to clean the existing stone up so it can be re-used.

It transpired that I know his dad, he has a gearbox repair business, and has done two of my courier vans way back, I knew I'd seen his face somewhere before, shame he cant fit the MoHo in the garage or I'd have got a really good deal on my clutch doing. 


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Garage is too small to be used as a dwelling, it is also very badly built and has a sloping floor.

We will contact planning, but I don't think we need planning permission for the drive (block paving) and garage under permitted development rules.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi kev

im so please that you deem to be getting it sorted at last


i live in the south of england where land is so much more expensive and have heard of some great house agreements going sour over problems half way through the build

sounds good that he will do the drive first for free then negotiate the garage sale at a later date

please still get it agreed through a solicitor 

barry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm leaving it all to Liz as she's more au fait with this type of thing, and will look into it better too.

We had a take away curry delivered last night, and because of the way the drives are configured, the poor lad had to ring me to guide him to our door, it will be great to just say order for 26 **************** please, curry was expensive and not up to much either, despite them being national award champs.

This house also has a name, tres posho


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## Bobmarley3 (Oct 12, 2011)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Garage is too small to be used as a dwelling, it is also very badly built and has a sloping floor.
> 
> We will contact planning, but I don't think we need planning permission for the drive (block paving) and garage under permitted development rules.


Be careful here. Planning has changed about the surface of drives - it's all to do with surface water runoff and the increase in it due to people block paving their drives.

Link is https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/45/paving_your_front_garden but also see
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/44/patio_and_driveway
MrsBob


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Mrs Bob, yes, it's the same everywhere now, hence the block paving, but we'd have opted for that as first choice anyway.


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