# Investments



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

There used to be a few people on MHF who did want to discuss investments and the markets. Presumably since they were using them to fund their lifestyle including their motorhoming.

I do not want to start a thread on this subject if those people have gone away or are not interested.

Thus I am enquiring whether anyone is still interested in discussing the way investments can fund motorhoming.

Another aspect of investments and motorhoming is how one manages, monitors and changes one's investments when away.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I'm definitely interested. If my plans come to fruition in the next year or so I'll be looking at investing money to fund a Motorhome lifestyle and possibly a property in France. I have some ideas about renting a couple of flats out near a hospital but that's it. All ears. 

I often think a lot of people are reluctant to discuss stuff like this online though on an open forum. I often think the financial wizards don't like to share either.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think at your age Barry , it's a good idea to check the market

Ourmoney is with a reputable investment firm

Twice a year we meet up with their rep and look how they are doing , same person Phil , and effect changes within the portfolio 

The money is really being "care taking" for our kids 

If we were younger I'd look at other ways but know I haven't the energy 

We hold a cash sum back that our kids can borrow as and when

They negotiate the terms of the payback, period of time etc

The only proviso is that they pay it back according to the agreement and they always do 

If we die whilst they still have outstanding loans , our will and executives are aware that outstanding sums are deducted from the inheritance due to protect those who have no money on loan
It's a way of insuring they don't need banks etc to finance extensions or even credit card debts that have got a bit out of hand

We did fancy buying a property abroad but skincancer has put payed to that, I wouldn't want to be left with a property here and abroad 

However I'll rent yours Barry when you are not using it 

Sandra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Sandra

You have said how you do it.

My question was whether people are interested in discussing investments, as were several 3-4 years ago.

Since you seem to be happy with your arrangements I assume you do not want to join in any discussion, so I will take that as a 'No' to my OP question.

Geoff


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I suppose it all depends on the amount that you were considering and how it was managed also by whom. Obviously the return would be a major topic as to how risky one wants to be.Ideras are always interesting. You could start a thread calling it Dragons roost, maybe.:serious:

cabby


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

cabby said:


> I suppose it all depends on the amount that you were considering and how it was managed also by whom. Obviously the return would be a major topic as to how risky one wants to be.Ideras are always interesting. You could start a thread calling it Dragons roost, maybe.:serious:
> 
> cabby


There is no intention of discusiing any form of investment here.

My OP was just to establish if there is any interest, and how many people, in even discussing the subject.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well yes I would be interested to see how others do it

Who knows I have some money In reserve , in icers in pension bonds etc

Sandra


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## ambegayo (Jan 7, 2007)

Does anyone know of the 'Property Trust' Will, this leaves the first partner to die share in a trust for the children and not to his surviving spouse which if that spouse needs care subsequently his share is not used for care as he did not receive care. This needs to be done before either spouse dies as it cannot be done after. There is more but has anyone already aware of this type of will whch also deals with appointing an executer and power of attorney during the couples lifetime.


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

ambegayo said:


> Does anyone know of the 'Property Trust' Will, this leaves the first partner to die share in a trust for the children and not to his surviving spouse which if that spouse needs care subsequently his share is not used for care as he did not receive care. This needs to be done before either spouse dies as it cannot be done after. There is more but has anyone already aware of this type of will whch also deals with appointing an executer and power of attorney during the couples lifetime.


I think this is what you may be referring to.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1594984/Tenants-common.html


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Now hold on Sandra

I do not think you can prove that I have your money (icers)

Ian


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Do you need it babe ?.

For Me I am so lucky unless I live too 1004 
Which I doubt 

Iwontneed it

But itwouldhavebeen good to try a bit of excitement 

But still we wil just go with what we have

But you younger go for it

Sandra


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

Geoff - yes I'd be interested. Don't think I could offer as much as some, but since I retired 18 months ago I've been holding my SIPP in cash, given that inflation is close to zero, but more because I'm dithering on what to invest in. Keen to learn and swap ideas.


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## cypsygal (Dec 19, 2009)

Interesting topic - not being quite retirement age (57 & 62) funding a m/home lifestyle is a current Q. We are cash poor, assets rich in that we have a couple of properties, but not real financial assets. We know others in our position who have had their properties on the mkt for 10 yrs with no sale. I do not want to be in that position in 10 yrs! In 3 yrs we need to have retired! Wish me luck


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

philoaks said:


> I think this is what you may be referring to.
> 
> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1594984/Tenants-common.html


Is inheritance tax still 40%?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I am a benifificary of a trust fund

It was set up to avoid inheritance tax at the time 

If grants me a monthly income and In the event of my death the kids are the benificeries 

I suppose that takes that amount out of inheritance tax for me too but I'd need to check that out 

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I personally feel we are living in a very volatile time financially. 
Look at property worldwide and look at oil values.
The buy to let bubble has burst in UK and will undoubtedly have an adverse effect on all UK property values. 
Bonds and their returns are dropping so what has been seen as good safe investments are not so good today.
We have been very fortunate that our remaining funds have been returning 5 to 6% the past 12 years but these are now producing lower returns and falling capital values.

Like Sandra we get to a certain age where we hope our remaining years are well funded but it's always a good feeling if your assets are at least keeping up with inflation.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Not any sort of financial advice but.........

If you open a Santander 123 account (small monthly charge of a fiver) they will pay you 3% (In a monthly payment) on any balance between three and twenty thousand. Far better return than many (most) ISA's plus it's instant access.We have one each and a joint one.

Plus of course there's always premium bonds, basically it's as safe as houses and you are gambling the (virtually none existent) interest you might get elsewhere. Just about everyone I know gets around 8% return (me included) from them. 

Andy


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

patp said:


> Is inheritance tax still 40%?


Yes, I believe so. It can be reduced to 36% if more than 10% of the estate is left to charity though.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Not any sort of financial advice but.........
> 
> If you open a Santander 123 account (small monthly charge of a fiver) they will pay you 3% (In a monthly payment) on any balance between three and twenty thousand. Far better return than many (most) ISA's plus it's instant access.We have one each and a joint one.
> 
> ...


8%! Thats a pretty good yield from any investment these days. Even renting a property out with no mortgage I think you would be lucky to get near that. I had a look at MSE Premium bond calculator here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/premium-bonds-calculator/ and stuck £50K in. They reckon I would get £500! 

I guess your right about the alternatives though if your just sticking it in a bank. may as well have a bit of a gamble but I Think you have been lucky.

I take it the Santander account has to be a current account and you cannot just dump £20K in immediately?


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

barryd said:


> 8%! Thats a pretty good yield from any investment these days. Even renting a property out with no mortgage I think you would be lucky to get near that. I had a look at MSE Premium bond calculator here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/premium-bonds-calculator/ and stuck £50K in. They reckon I would get £500!


We've had money in bonds for a couple of years now and our returns are much closer to the 1.35% that MSE quotes but the potential of a £1M prize is a bit like the lottery. "You've got to be in it to win it"


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I was asked by PM from one member whether I am offering Financial Services and I answered as follows:-

"Definitely not.

I am just a private investor. The reason I am suggesting a thread on a motorhome forum is that for people travelling long-term there are different decisions to make about investment and funding than for those who are static - one being whether to sell/rent out one's residence, and connectivity for making/selling investments. Also there may be participation from residents outside the UK on such things as opening bank accounts.

I did spend some time using my legal qualification in Compliance in Retail Financial Services and some of my contribution would draw on a knowledge of the products and fee-structures involved, but that would not be advice as such and I will not get any personal gain.

I hope this clarifies."



Cheers, Geoff


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Do you need it babe ?.

Not really Sandra

Just in the process of winding up my mothers estate and 40% IHT is painfully sad

What I did not know is they get their slice 1st. Ok its more simple if in liquid form but you give them authority to take the funds from the account before they grant probate. Interest starts from 1st of month after 6 moths from date of death.

Yet to find a simpler way of passing money on to children other than gifting after using £3k annual allowance 

Ian


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

This might sound silly at first, but take time to think about it, there is no restriction on you spending money.

cabby


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Just read Geoffs comments re bank accounts (abroad) and would just like to mention one thing that I was unaware of.

As I said in my last post my mother recently died and she also had an account in Eire.
As the amount was in excess of E25K probate needs to be completed in Ireland. As I live in UK I am not allowed to do it myself and will cost E2K
UK pobate will not cover Eire although the sums in Eire are included in the lovely form IHT400 and included for tax purposes.

Ian


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

That is true Cabby

Ian


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

cabby said:


> This might sound silly at first, but take time to think about it, there is no restriction on you spending money.
> 
> cabby


I've always said:

"No pockets in a shroud"

tony0


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

As the OP I did start this thread to initially only elicit more or less 'Yes' or 'No' answers as to whether anyone was interested, and not to discuss in this thread.

However it has 'morphed' into a 'discussion' thread. Since we are now on P. 3 I deem there is sufficient interest for a Discussion thread, so it would probably now be confusing if we started a different thread, so I accept this is it.

Do posters feel the title is sufficient for that purpose, or should we ask Admin to make it more specific - personally I think it is wide enough for anyone interested to look in - then they will see what it is about. 

Any comments?

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

icer said:


> Do you need it babe ?.
> 
> Not really Sandra
> 
> ...


Plan ahead.!!!!!

Ray.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Mrplodd said:


> Not any sort of financial advice but.........
> 
> If you open a Santander 123 account (small monthly charge of a fiver) they will pay you 3% (In a monthly payment) on any balance between three and twenty thousand. Far better return than many (most) ISA's plus it's instant access.We have one each and a joint one.
> 
> ...


Anybody who buys Premium Bonds as any sort of investment is an idiot. I find the above comment about 8% return very difficult to believe. One person, maybe, but not a load of acquaintances all the same.

If you have some cash lying around doing nothing, by all means buy some PBs, but treat it as you would having a punt on the Grand National. It's a gamble, with the stake being safe and retrievable.

I have a fair bit in PBs, but it's money I don't need at the moment and it's just a bit of harmless fun. It's ages since I had even a £25 win, but other times I've had 2 or 3 within a short period. It all a matter of chance, and must be treated as such.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

mgdavid said:


> Geoff - yes I'd be interested. Don't think I could offer as much as some, but since I retired 18 months ago I've been holding my SIPP in cash, given that inflation is close to zero, but more because I'm dithering on what to invest in. Keen to learn and swap ideas.


David

Welcome into the discusson.

not all can contribute equally, just as on MH subjects, but we can club together with knowledge/opinions.

At the moment I would not worry about 'dithering' - the makets are falling.

Anyway, until you know enough and are confident you know what you want to do then it is better to sit on the sidelines.

I have all my investment money, other than my rented-out house, which is my only 'residence', I have everythin in a SIPP and ISAs, so all tax-free.

A couple of years ago I went (almost completely) liquid on the basis I feared what has been happening over the last few months. The only investment I have made has been into a bond issued by a property company which is in rental property and pays 6.125% p.a. This is the type of bond which is tradable on the Stock Market so one can get out before maturity, which is the only type I would consider - and because of the tax changes on rental property I am watching the price.

All the other money is waiting for possible oportunities but as the markets are goingIi would not be confident until I see a couple of months stability. I might miss the 'bottom' but even the market professionals cannot spot that until it is over.

I invest directly, but even if one does it through managed funds, whether traditional funds, Investment Trusts(tradeable on the Stock Exchange) or pensions of any sort, one is still exposed to the 'Market', plus fees.

Some of what I am posting is for general consumption, but for you David, I would keep learning/researching and be thankful you did not expose yourself to the markets 18 months ago - dithering has been a plus.

Geoff


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Agree with you Tugboat as my experience is similar, really depends on how lucky you are and everyone can't be lucky.

See here for some PB info.......

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/premium-bonds-calculator/#result

Terry


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

cypsygal said:


> Interesting topic - not being quite retirement age (57 & 62) funding a m/home lifestyle is a current Q. We are cash poor, assets rich in that we have a couple of properties, but not real financial assets. We know others in our position who have had their properties on the mkt for 10 yrs with no sale. I do not want to be in that position in 10 yrs! In 3 yrs we need to have retired! Wish me luck


I am no clear as to whether you currently have a MH and are just wondering how to fund its use in retirement, or need to fund buying one and using it.

With two properties fundingthe use should not be difficult.

If you do not wish to publish more details in open you could give £xxx and % of cost/income examples or PM.

Geoff


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> ........
> At the moment I would not worry about 'dithering' - the makets are falling.
> ......... be thankful you did not expose yourself to the markets 18 months ago - dithering has been a plus.
> Geoff


Thanks; with the wisdom of hindsight it was an OK decision. I have basic living costs covered in the form of DB pensions, and the DC pot is all crystallised as we used the TFLS to buy the MH. I've deferred state pension, thinking of taking it this autumn (27 months deferral). On a point of principle I won't pay higher rate tax so I just drawdown to fill the gap between the other pensions and the HRT threshold. The projections have the SIPP drained by my 80th birthday, by which time I will no longer be motor racing and we will have downsized and freed up a bit more capital. For now the SIPP just needs to keep pace with inflation, any increase is a bonus, so I'm tending towards something like Vanguard LS60, are there good alternatives?

The big unknown is health and healthcare costs! With any luck I'll have a heart attack on a race circuit and go quickly and happy (it's not that uncommon), failing that I might pre-purchase a one-way to Geneva.

Do people think that assisted dying will become legal in the EU or UK within 10 to 20 years?


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Plan ahead.!!!!!

Ray.

In what way Ray.

We have thought that by using the £3k allowance to the children annually, backdated for last year as well, is a start.
Then on top of that a gift to the children, as far as I can see it is a clean way of doing things. We have to survive the gift for 7 years to be IHT free although it is done on a sliding scale so after 2 years it is 20% tax free etc

Any other thoughts?

Ian


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

aldra said:


> I am a benifificary of a trust fund
> 
> It was set up to avoid inheritance tax at the time
> 
> ...


Sandra

Check it out - with a Solicitor or an Accountant - Now, while you can still change anything if it is wrong, instead of leaving it to the Executors of your Will and beneficiaries to sort out any problems.

Geoff


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

icer said:


> Plan ahead.!!!!!
> 
> Ray.
> 
> ...


Ian

I am only posting this to clarify what can be done with gifts - beyond what you propose, which is correct.

The £3K can be gifted to any perso(s), not just family as Ian has chosen, and is not subject to the 'Gift in reservation' rule of 7 years.

Anything above that, as Ian said is subject to the 7 year rule to be completely free of IHT, subject to the sliding scale - although I thought that it started at 3 years not 2, but I may be wrong.

geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

icer said:


> Plan ahead.!!!!!
> 
> Ray.
> 
> ...


Hi Ian.
Not being an expert and also not knowing all your personal details and ages of all involved.

But I went joint owner to my mothers huse in UK and also co signatory to her bank account.
This enabled me to sell the house with no CGT and empty her bank account BEFORE informing the bank.

It worked for me but you do have to have a good relationship with parents and tidy things up while they are still able to understand.

Ray.


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Correct Geoff. yes, 3 years. Just missed 4 years by 10 days on my mothers gift so only got 20% rather than 40% taper.

Ray. Tis myself I was talking about re Gifting to my children

I had enduring power of attorney for both parents and 3rd party mandate for Irish a/c, but was not aware of E25k limit re probate and also thought that probate would cover Eire,

Not so.. lessons learnt. Two thousand Euro's to release funds is no joke

Ian


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

The £3 T gifting is little use to us

We have six children, so one every six years

Which reminds me of my lifetime annoyance

A family ticket, two kids, no,a family ticket should be a family ticket, one two or six kids 

Anyway back to subject

You can make multiple gifts of £250 

Or as us have a very expensive cash Christmas drawn down throughout the year!

We set up a loan account to allow the kids to borrow as they need, pay back on time frames they decide so they dont need bank loans or any other loans , the outstanding amounts maybe due IT 

The rest they will get when we both die 

Which is more than either of us got at the time we needed it 

So the moral of this story is do not have 6 kids

Because they arrive every Friday complete with partners and kids

Eat you out of house and home

And they are a b****r to gift 

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes Ian, I was forced to have my power of attorney ratified by the court of protection just to get a cheque from the FSCS cleared. It cost me £1,000 and even then the FSCS cocked up.
They made the cheque out to "The executors of the estate of Mrs. (Rays mum)".
Of course no bank account in that name was in existence. The bank suggested I send it back to FSCS but as it had taken two years to get it I refused and demanded the bank create an account in that name just to process the one cheque. It worked.

I guess Ian if you add your kids to the deeds as joint owners to your property then CGT is vastly mitigated. Also any liquid funds need to be in joint accounts.
The other way is a 'trust' but then it gets complicated with ongoing costs.

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> Sandra
> 
> Check it out - with a Solicitor or an Accountant - Now, while you can still change anything if it is wrong, instead of leaving it to the Executors of your Will and beneficiaries to sort out any problems.
> 
> Geoff


I'm pretty certain that the Money in the trust is not part of my inheritance

It belongs to the kids once I die

It was done to protect some of the money left to the person who left it to me from IH tax
I haven't changed it, Albert won't need it

Although for a long time I felt anxious

If I died and he remarried

Would SHE inherited money that belonged to my kids?

I'd have given my life for him, still would , but I would never give my money to anyone other than him and the kids
Sandra


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Sandra show the trust document to a specialist and listen to their advice.

Ray.

Ceeding 50% of property is fraught with difficulty's 
It does not do what would seem reasonable in the real world.

We would have for example to pay rent to our children to live in the property to escape IHT
We could not sell within the 7 years as CGT raises its ugly head. As we brought the property to renovate over a 10 year period the gain is lots, taxable at 18% or 28%
Possible Divorce 50% of 25% of our house to ex partner

I looked at this link
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/work-wag...f-my-house-to-my-child-to-cut-inheritance-tax

Ian


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

There is plenty for them outside the trust fund 

Although I know plenty depends on your point of view

I love my kids but

Would never sort out any agreement that put them in control

They will get what they will get when we die
And anything I can give or help them with between

And meanwhile I have grandkids , the older ones cost, cars, university fees

And secretly

So secretly I favour them

Did I say that??

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

icer said:


> Sandra show the trust document to a specialist and listen to their advice.
> 
> Ray.
> Ceeding 50% of property is fraught with difficulty's
> ...


OK Ian.
But nothing is etched in stone and is often up to an interpretation.
It worked for us but maybe with such small amounts we were not worth chasing.
We managed to avoid CGT on several London properties by moving to France. It all hinged on timing. It worked again for us. Sadly all to no avail as it just provided more money to our IFA to steal.

Ray.


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## square_steve (Jan 13, 2016)

Some of those schemes sound a bit risky for me. I got an email from a Nigerian prince and he's cut me in on a deal to buy some shares in a diamond mine at a great price, such a nice guy.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Ah well 

Diamonds just don't do it for me
Sandra


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Just to update as I am completing the probate forms I have realised that Gifting money is not what I thought it seemed.

If you gift providing you survive by 7 years there is no IHT to pay. This is correct

If however you do not survive by 7 years it is only reduced on a sliding scale (Taper relief) if the sum is in excess of £325000 or the Nil rate taxband applicable at the DOD


I have confirmed this with them.

You can only set off the annual allowance (not used) ie £3000 against it. You can use previous years if not used as well.

Ian


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

icer said:


> You can only set off the annual allowance (not used) ie £3000 against it. You can use previous years if not used as well.
> 
> Ian


Ian

I thought using previous £3,000 only applied to one tax year previous to DoD

Am I wrong?

Geoff


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Geoff

You can use two tax as set off if the allowance has not already been utilised.

Ie this tax year and last tax year. ending apr15 & ending arp 16

Ian


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Every year youcan give£3000
Or save it and give £6000 every two 
years 

And you can give multiple gifts of £250 

6 x 250 equals £1500 

If you have enough kids 

Aldra


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