# Can I Justify It???



## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

A year ago we downsized from a Burstner 748 to a Hymer B544SL. The Burstner was a great van but we felt a bit too big, hence the change, but we have been slightly disappointed by the Hymer. Our main gripe is the pull down bed which is quite small and very noisy when you turn over. Also after the huge amount of space in the Burstner we have found the kitchen area and bathroom a bit of a compromise.

So we have started looking for another option - max 7.5m with a garage - and one of the possibilities is a Carthago Chic i44 or possible i47 E Line. The prices seem a bit scary but are they worth it? We need a vehicle for car race meetings, touring holidays and for skiing in Europe mainly wild camping. 
Would really appreciate any feedback - its a big jump but we need to get the right vehicle this time and if Carthago is it.......

Thanks for all advice
Sally


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

We manage with fixed bed 6.5 meter cheyene, and use it for track days etc But it doesn`t have a garage.

If you can afford it why not. Its only the kids inheritance.
Spend it while they can see you enjoying it

my dad did :lol: 

Dave P


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"The Burstner was a great van... Also after the huge amount of space in the Burstner .... So we have started looking for another option - max 7.5m with a garage"

So what is now wrong with a Burstner 748, which meets this spec and with which you were very happy? :?

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi;

I'd agree the Hymer bed is a lttle on the small side and the cantilevers do tend to make a noise when you turn over in the night but overall we're very happy with ours, (she tends to sleep on the rear bed when i'm in 'fidget' mode :lol: ).

If you can stretch to a Carthago then go for it, you're only young once. A test drive is obviously a must to see if you can live with the extra size. I've viewed a few at Lowdhams and the build quality, fit and finish was superb. Another important thing, especially when you're spending such a lot is make sure you're happy with the reputation of the supplying dealer.

Having said that - Sod the kids inheritance, just do it :lol: 

Pete


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Carthago*

Spend, spend, spend. The world might end tomorrow and in that case, the amount you have spent is irrelevant!

Russell


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Sally

To answer your main question 'will it do what we want it for?' - the answer is yes. These higher quality German vans are built for year round occupation and the manufacturer has the reputation to go with it. Do avoid the Fiat manual gearbox chassis version though (auto is OK) if there are other options available, due to their well documented reversing faults. 

As to the cost, if we had bought a top class van in the first place we would have saved a fortune over the years. If you can afford it - go for it. 

Ron


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

ob1 said:


> Sally
> 
> To answer your main question 'will it do what we want it for?' - the answer is yes. These higher quality German vans are built for year round occupation and the manufacturer has the reputation to go with it.


The point i was trying to make is, the manufacturer may have the neccesary reputation but equally, make sure you are happy with your supplying dealers reputation as well. :wink:

Pete


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks for the replies so far.

Yes the Burstner was a greta van but at 8.2m and with a turning circle of over 16m it made trips to remote places difficult and sometimes impossible. 

The Hymer only has the front bed so would like to try to get an A class that incorporates the good features of the Hymer (mainly the maoeverability) and the equipment level of the Burstner (mainly the garage and better kitchen). There are some good layouts in the Auto Trails but they are not fully winterised so no good for our skiing trips.

We have no kids and our own business so time off is precious. Try to do as much research beforehand to save days of trekking round dealers and shows. Agree with the comment that the right van will save us money in the long run!!

Is the quality of the Carthago vans better than Frankia or other German vans?

Thanks again for any advice
Sally


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

taz said:


> A year ago we downsized from a Burstner 748 to a Hymer B544SL. The Burstner was a great van but we felt a bit too big, hence the change, but we have been slightly disappointed by the Hymer. Our main gripe is the pull down bed which is quite small and very noisy when you turn over. Also after the huge amount of space in the Burstner we have found the kitchen area and bathroom a bit of a compromise.
> 
> So we have started looking for another option - max 7.5m with a garage - and one of the possibilities is a Carthago Chic i44 or possible i47 E Line. The prices seem a bit scary but are they worth it? We need a vehicle for car race meetings, touring holidays and for skiing in Europe mainly wild camping.
> Would really appreciate any feedback - its a big jump but we need to get the right vehicle this time and if Carthago is it.......
> ...


I would go for.....

E-Line I44
4,200kG
319 (so V6 Diesel Euro V (not old stock 318 Euro IV))
Auto Gearbox 
Cruise Control

However, you would be over €100,000.00 !


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

[/quote]

The point i was trying to make is, the manufacturer may have the neccesary reputation but equally, make sure you are happy with your supplying dealers reputation as well. :wink:

Pete[/quote]

Pete

I'm not sure if you thought I was questioning your advice? I'm not, I quite agree with you.

Ron


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

ob1 said:


> peejay said:
> 
> 
> > The point i was trying to make is, the manufacturer may have the neccesary reputation but equally, make sure you are happy with your supplying dealers reputation as well. :wink:
> ...


Hi Ron;

Oops. Sorry if that came across a bit wrong  I was trying to point out the importance of having a good dealer regardless of the quality of the motorhome 

Pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Sorry, thought the Burstner 748 was 7.5m, as here:
http://www.motorholme.co.uk/motorhomes/6nd_model.htm

Dave


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

No but I wish it was as we wouldn't have changed it. Think its 8.18.
Ticked all the boxes except length - the Hymer looks tiny in comparison and is so easy to drive - I didn't drive the Burstner as it scared me!! but the Hymer is fine. Think I will be OK up to 7.5

Are there any Carthago owners out there with experience of other makes to offer a comparison?

Thanks
Sally


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Bump!!

Any Carthago owners in the country who can vouch for the build quality, reliability and suitability for our needs?

Thanks again
Sally


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Having spend three years deliberating over Niesmann+Biscoff, Hymer Liner (build by Niesmann), Concorde and Cathargo we concluded that the build quality of these was very similar and a notch up on Hymer generally. Certainly one notch up on Frankia and two notches up on the best of British. Never looked at Burstner though in any detail as they did not have the payload. Anyway back to the main three above. We concluded that the Cathargo was lacking in design expertise. Daft things like the footwell intruded to far into the acomodation, the step in the floor necessary with some models on some chassis was placed in a daft place so you kept tripping up on it. The concorde was initially seen as a bit dull. The Hymer Liner had a bit more bling than the Flair equivalent and one detail that suited us better so that was what we ordered. BUT as the weeks of waiting progressed all of the special features which were agreed initially became non available from the manufacturer and eventually we pulled the plug and got our deposit back. The quest started again with another visit to Lowdams to look at Cathargo,s. Our opinion remained unchanged. Then we walked into Southdowns and found a Concorde that did not have the same affect on as as that seen a couple of years previously. In fact it ticked nearly all the boxes so we bought it. Its just be re-upholstered and now the Mrs is chuffed to bits with it.

Does that help?

C.


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Carthago*



Rapide561 said:



> Spend, spend, spend. The world might end tomorrow and in that case, the amount you have spent is irrelevant!
> 
> Russell


ane neither is the amount you have left AFTER you've spent it !


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## Wiggy (May 22, 2005)

Hi Taz and everyone
We did exactly what you are considering just before Christmas last year
We had a Hymer B700 starline on a Mercedes for just about 2 years and started looking at Premium A class options - only 2 to consider really Carthago or Concorde - had a real good look at both and choose a Cathago Chic I51 KRH on a Iveco its the plus model with a huge 1300kg payload and it was smaller than the Concorde so would better fit our type of CL/CS camping 
We have been compleatly happy with it picked it up drove stright to the Christmas markets in Koln and have used it non stop just about every week we often live in it Mon to Fri combining with work and have driven 10,000 trouble free miles so far from the Iveco engine and chassis
Cathago have a great UK owners club and excellent service from Loudhams in Nottingham
If you choose a Chic or Opus or if you have a Wad a Liner you wont go far wrong but please don't pick the Fiat chassis yet!
Regards
Wiggy


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## neilbes (Oct 16, 2006)

you only live once ...go for it


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## catzontour (Mar 28, 2007)

I agree with Clive, having happily been a Concorde owner for two and a half years and full timed in it and gone skiing from it for five months at a time. Build quality is superb and easily coped with regular winter temperatures of around -16.

We only sold it earlier this year as we've had to return to reality  

It is a big expense but it will tick all the boxes. Go for it and enjoy yourselves.

Catz


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Go for it, why not? 

I must defend the Frankia, our is a fine van, build quality excellent, slightly let down by the Fiat clutch problem which was not known about when we bought it. If I was changing it would be a Concorde or a Carthago not on a Fiat, Alan.


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## rongob (Apr 30, 2007)

I have a Carthago 151KRH tag axle on a fiat.a 2006 model and one of the last built with the old 2.8 engines.I decided to go with the old technology rather than wait for the newer 3 lt motor,glad i did considering all the complaints i have read.

I had the engined remapped and it runs like a dream as good as any 3lt i would imagine.As far as the rest of the vehicle is concerned i have had no problems in over 22000 miles of travelling,hope this helps.


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks everyone for all the help - sounds like as long as we dig deep (and keep working!!) we won't regret it. Have got a secondhand one lined up while we are waiting for someone to make a decision on ours. 
Hopefully we will hear on ours in the next few days.
Thanks again
Sally

PS Agree about the slightly bizarre step in the Carthago - but I guess after you have tripped a few times you remember its there!!


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi

I went to the show at the NEC yesterday and was really taken with the Carthago e line I 49. I've put down a deposit! 

Now I'm a bit scared...... shall I get it? 

It's about £100k, but it's really lovely. Can I really justify it?


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## ambegayo (Jan 7, 2007)

*Carthago*

How long is a I 49? As to whether you should go for it, well yes it is a lot of money but if you can afford it why not, as everyone says we only are here once. Carthago are always making changes, our Chic I47 was a C liner, but by bringing out a new cheaper model (not same spec) they upped the C to an E which some owners are quite upset about. But on resale the spec will be no different to the E, just the year of vehicle. Once you have one you wouldn't want to consider a cheaper option, unless finances dictated.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

It's 7.4m - I've done a new post now, with more information, as a separate topic. 

Thanks


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

taz said:


> A year ago we downsized from a Burstner 748 to a Hymer B544SL. The Burstner was a great van but we felt a bit too big, hence the change, but we have been slightly disappointed by the Hymer. Our main gripe is the pull down bed which is quite small and very noisy when you turn over. Also after the huge amount of space in the Burstner we have found the kitchen area and bathroom a bit of a compromise.
> 
> So we have started looking for another option - max 7.5m with a garage - and one of the possibilities is a Carthago Chic i44 or possible i47 E Line. The prices seem a bit scary but are they worth it? We need a vehicle for car race meetings, touring holidays and for skiing in Europe mainly wild camping.
> Would really appreciate any feedback - its a big jump but we need to get the right vehicle this time and if Carthago is it.......
> ...


Despite my minor probs with Swifts

It is well worth you looking at the Autocruise Drive range

Wups


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Hi Heather
We finally got our Chic e47i about 4 weeks ago and it is a great bit of kit. Fits us really well and so far can't fault the build quality. Yes its a lot of money but as long as you can get the use out of it then its worth it.

Feel free to pm if you have any queries about extras etc. 
Sally


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