# Factory fitted towbars- Illegal in the UK?



## Grockel (Nov 5, 2007)

My Bessacarr MH has a factory fitted towbar without any confirmatory audio or visual confirmation that the trailer direction indicators are functioning.
I understood this was a legal requirement in UK.
Does anyone know if I am correct please?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Towbars*

Hi

I can confirm that my previous towbar - fitted by Ainleys in Halifax did go beep, beep etc when indicating.

The present towbar is silent!

Russell


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi Grockel, 

The directive 76/156/EEC states a tell tale must be fitted and that this must be auditory, visual or both. We fit with our towbars a Westfalia unit (fitted on 2007 and 2008 motorhomes) this checks bulb operation on the trailer. If a bulb fails the unit informs the Fiat body computer and illuminates a warning light the "external light failure" bulb on the dashboard (see page 134 of the Fiat ducato handbook), this fully complies with the directive. 

Regards
Andy Spacey - Swift Technical


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Towbar*

Andy

How about the "audible" warning, or is it a case of "auditory", OR "visual" OR both.

Cheers

Russell


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: Towbar*



Rapide561 said:


> Andy
> 
> How about the "audible" warning, or is it a case of "auditory", OR "visual" OR both.
> 
> ...


Visual as far as we are concerned,my Disco is visual as well.Peter.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Towing*

Hello Peter

Thanks for the clarification.

Disco?? Ah , yes - got it!

Russell


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## Grockel (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi Andy, many thanks for the prompt reply. Isn't it wonderful that I can get a reply directly from Swift within hours whereas I've been waiting for 5 months for a reply from Chelston, who are apparently awaiting for clarification from Swift!!!!!!!!!!
It is a pity that the old bleeper system is no longer used as the direction indicator click on the Ducato is so quiet and easily missed. I have concluded that it is a bit major job to put an auxillary bleeper onto the new Ducato and fraught with danger of messing about with the can bus system.
Incidentally the section on external light failure is on page 152 in my handbook.

Cheers, G


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## 108138 (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi Grockel,

Very dissapointed to read of your problems in obtaining this information.I am pleased however that the Swift group have answered in a timely manner. We at Chelston are on a crusade to improve our customer service and this forum and messages such as yours are helping us to identify areas that need our urgent attention. 

Thank you

Tom Lower


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Why not wire one of these in the indicator circuit . . I've fitted one onto my little Honda C90 moped as an audio reminder when the left/right indicators are operated
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=3213&doy=19m11#spec


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Whilst it maybe an EEC directive I am not aware of it being illegal not to have 
a remote "tell tale"????

peedee


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## Grockel (Nov 5, 2007)

Thanks for your reply Tom, but you were aware of the problem as my wife wrote to you direct on 27th September listing faults with our van- 8 faults on delivery, plus a further 6 faults identified in the first week of use . As I understand it, the letter was passed straight on to Alex to deal with.
We are finally getting the faults sorted out after pestering your service centre for 5 months although some are still outstanding. In despiration, I have, at my own expense, fitted a surge damper as recommended by Sureflo to get rid of the pneumatic drill which was the water pump. Your staff had 3 attempts to rectify this including replacing the pump!
Good luck with the crusade,
Regards G


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Warning bleeps confusing*

Some years ago, BMW fitted turn signal warning bleeps to their motorcycles, but were convinced ( don't know by whom ) to have them removed from new models, as they were the source of complaints from some road safety body that blind, no have to reword that, poorly sighted pedestrians might mistake the bleeps for the pedietrian crossing warning bleeps that sound when it is safe to cross, and MAT casue an accident.
I seem to remember that not one instance could be produced of where or when this accident may have occurred.
So, be prepared for some busy bodies making a similar claim about bleeps on tow bars. 
I know big trucks still have them fitted, but I have no knowledge of where big trucks are reversing or turning on pedestrian crossings. :?


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## Grockel (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi Wingpete and Vicdicdoc, fitting a buzzer is not as simple as it sounds as the actual flasher relay appears to be in the main control box with a fistful of wires going into it. I've been advised by an auto electrician that the relay operates on the can bus so it would be madness to fiddle in that area.
One way would be to tap in at "bulb" level- not easy to access behind the dash panels etc but possible I suppose at the rear end.
Another idea I have is to use a magnetic sensor device stuck unto the outside of the relay- still thinking about it!
Regards G


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## 107476 (Oct 6, 2007)

Sorry getting confused here.

I think the question was - in the event of a bulb failing on a trailer board, that an indication should be given in the Cab of the van of a "fault".

Is this a legal requirment or a recommendation from the EU directive.

I am having a tow bar fitted to the new van when it arrives so its of interest to me also.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi Jackthelad,

Yes it it a legal requirement, this is covered under the The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, this states;

Section 11. Tell-tale
(a) One or more indicators on each side of a vehicle to which indicators are fitted shall be so designed and fitted that the driver when in his seat can readily be aware when it is in operation; or
*(b) The vehicle shall be equipped with an operational tell-tale for front and rear indicators (including any rear indicator on the rearmost of any trailers drawn by the vehicle).*

"*Operational tell-tale*" means a warning device readily visible or audible to the driver and showing whether a device that has been switched on is operating correctly or not;

The tell tale can be visual, auditory or both, the Swift towbars have visual tell tale "bulb warning light" which illuminates if the rear directional bulb is not operating correctly.

Thanks
Andy - Swift Group Technical


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## 107476 (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks fir the clarification, I'll make sure its correct when ours arrives during my inspection. Another to add to the list.

So GROCKEL hasnt got a warning system ( or have I read it wrong). Surely that would be checked by the Supplier of the van during the PDI. and who would be resonsible if an accident happened due to a defective trailer light.

I would assume the manufacturer/ supplier of the van ???


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification Andy, I should imagine that makes quite a few of us towing cars definitely illegal then. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

peedee


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## Grockel (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi Peedee, as I read it, I think we probably do actually have a legal system with the factory fitted towbar and electrics but will only find out if a bulb actually fails! It should then come up as a warning on the dashboard.
Perhaps Swift technical could suggest how we could check this other than removing a bulb from the towed vehicle to bring up the warning.
Cheers G


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi Grockel

Clearly I can't talk about other systems but the Swift system is a bulb warning light system which activates on failure, therefore the simplest way is to remove a bulb and check operation. thanks

Andy


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

I can confirm with Andy of Swift that the Swift fitted towbar gives visual indication to the driver by means of the "Bulb Failed Light" on the dash. My trailer's indicator got a bit damp and the indicator lit up to let me know. My last Bel Air had no indication and it was also factory fitted back in 2001.
It is good to know that everything is operational. I wonder if it also indicates if we loose any other lights on the trailer. My mercedes lights up and shows which bulb has blown.


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