# Dubious hygeine



## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

On arrival at our present site in Cornwall we were told by the manager to use a long hose pipe next to reception for water filling as ''all the motorhomes use it''.

When visiting the toilet block early yesterday around 7am I saw the same hose had been routed into the gents.The manager was cleaning the loos with the hose which was stuffed down a toilet bowl.

I was too shocked to say anything to him at the time but will have to tell him before we leave tomorrow as the more I think about it the more disgusted I have become.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Maybe an anti-motorhoming warden.

Name the site, please.

Dave


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## CPW2007 (Aug 17, 2007)

Yuk!! That's disgusting!! I'm afraid I would have said something along the lines of "Isn't that the hose you asked me to use to fill up my fresh water tank". The worry is, how many times has he used that hose for that particular job prior to you turning up!! 8O 8O 

I agree that the site should be named if only to make others on here aware of a possible contaminated hose!! (Now I know why I always carry my own hose around with us!  )

Regards

Chris


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

DABurleigh said:


> Maybe an anti-motorhoming warden.
> 
> Name the site, please.
> 
> Dave


Im really surprised there isnt a list of 'Sites to Avoid' - or is there?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I agree that the site should be named. Not sure if we would be open to slander by having a list as such, maybe just a site comments section. :wink: :wink: 

cabby


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## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

wakk44 said:


> On arrival at our present site in Cornwall we were told by the manager to use a long hose pipe next to reception for water filling as ''all the motorhomes use it''.
> 
> When visiting the toilet block early yesterday around 7am I saw the same hose had been routed into the gents.The manager was cleaning the loos with the hose which was stuffed down a toilet bowl.
> 
> I was too shocked to say anything to him at the time but will have to tell him before we leave tomorrow as the more I think about it the more disgusted I have become.


This has to be one of the worse things I have ever heard. 
Never mind naming and shaming we're talking of poss dysentery here. I personally would report it to health & safety exec.
Is it a independent site?
I don't know how you have managed to keep calm. 
Please name site
Thanks mark


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Mick757 said:


> DABurleigh said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe an anti-motorhoming warden.
> ...


Do as I've done in the past and add it to the MHF Campsite Database with a suitable review and rating, there for all to see and is just the opinion of the reviewer


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

It must be an independent site! I cannot believe that the CC of which I'm a member could be so cavalier in its training of staff.

The club seems to set high standards in every aspect of its operations and I think that the use by the OP of the word 'manager' implies that it's not a club site as I'm sure that most of us use the term 'warden' when referring to club sites.

Whilst not condoning this behaviours, which is dreadful, caravanners and motor-homers are far from perfect. A couple of weeks ago I was at the CC site at Cirencester, which is a typical, beautifully laid-out and well maintained site in the grounds of a private estate.

Late in the day I went into the toilet blocks and I wouldn't use the first two because they were, to put it as delicately as possible, rather stained.

Each lavatory had a brush but it appears that some people are to dirty or too lazy to bother using one.

I mentioned this to the warden when I left and she told me that some people felt that cleaning the lavatory bowl after they've used it is a job that the wardens should do!

That's all very well but what about the poor buggers who have to use it before the wardens do their daily clean?

My only hope is that it wasn't the motor-homing fraternity that was responsible, as I'm sure that we're all terribly nice people!


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Hygiene*

Erm, well, sorry but worse things happen at sea.

Here are a couple of examples.

1) CCC site at Boroughbridge has a hosepipe at the motorhome service point. This delivers fresh water to the motorhome tank. I wonder how many times the end has been dropped on the floor, right where the grey tank is dumped?

2) You have just emptied your Thetford. You carry the empty Thetford to your van and place the Thetford tank in the dedicated locker. You now use your contaminated hands to use your motorhome keys to unlock the van. Go inside and wash your hands. Later you pick up the contaminated key. Or, do you use gloves to carry the Thetford, then once the Thetford is in it's locker, remove the gloves and then use your relatively clean hands to use the motorhome key.

Did you see the hosepipe in the toilet pan or the urinal or assume it to be there? What were you doing in the loos when cleaning was taking place and haz chems were likely to be in use? (Just seeing this from another side - no argument or whatever with Wakk44)

I know it does not look good, but as I say, I a'm sure there are many more ways to catch germs and so on.

Russell


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

This is surely one for the public health authorities as someone said earlier. The Tourist Board will also be interested as they obviously wish the area to retain a good reputation.

Is the site affiliated to any of the main camping/caravanning organisations, or is it non-affiliated?

Truly a horror story!

Colin


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Have to agree with Russell on this point - sometimes we are a bit too hygienic and germs are often good for you.

Having thought about when I was a child eating dirt picking up dropped sweets am surprised am still alive.

On saying that I suppose a good dose of s&d is not the best thing in the world but the chances are quite remote I would say.

Ok am waiting to be shot down in flames - go for it am hard me possibly bit of a dirty bird too :lol: :wink: 

Greenie


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Publish and be dammned!!!


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Hygiene*



Rapide561 said:


> Erm, well, sorry but worse things happen at sea.
> Russell


Thoroughly agree Russell. It should not of been done and does show sloppy procedures but there are worse things to be outraged against in this world.

I quite happily drink from a mountain stream (after checking 10 yds up stream for dead sheep etc). And as for unpasteurised dairy products. A quick wipe of the cow's teats and off you go, minutes earlier it could have been lying in ……..

Obviously we all need to be careful but I would give any hose a quick rinse by diverting the water backwards with my hand before using it. (then make sure I don't pick my nose with the same hand :lol: )

Dick


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

I live in Cornwall and use alot of sites in the County. Would love to know what site to avoid if not on here then at least PM me or the area that the site is in.
Thanks, Dave


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

There's no libel involved in publishing the name of the site. It's only libel if what you say is untrue.

Name and shame them! 

I'm pretty laissez-faire with my attitude to health and safety and am happy to pick up a hose, wipe the end off in a manner suggested by Glandwr above, run it for a minute to give it a good flushing and then stick it in the filler hole. I simply can't be bothered with food-grade hoses and buying bottled water etc. etc.

Nevertheless though, even though I'm happy to pick up a hose from the ground, I'm wouldn't be pleased knowing that the end of it has been stuck down someone's karzie! Especially as many site users don't seem to know what a lavatory brush is for!


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Yesterday I dropped a lovely big juicy organic strawberry on the office floor. I picked it up, gave it a wee wipe and popped it in my mouth. A few colleagues said they would have done the same, but some were 'horrified'.

Last night when watering the garden I picked a carrot from my veg patch, a quick rinse with the hose and ate it raw - delicious!

And today, I'm still here and feeling fine  :lol: 

Oh, when filling up with fresh water on site, we always try to unscrew the site's hose and use our own fitting and hose (where possible).

A few germs do you no harm, in fact helps to keep the immune sytem up.
However, there are limits!


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: Hygiene*



Rapide561 said:


> Did you see the hosepipe in the toilet pan or the urinal or assume it to be there? What were you doing in the loos when cleaning was taking place
> Russell


Russel,I haven't gone senile yet :lol:

The hose was pushed into the toilet pan and the manager was cleaning the floor.

What do you think I was doing in the toilet block at 7am after a few lagers the night before :lol:

The site in question is a privately run commercial one with a husband and wife who are joint managers/cleaners/litter pickers/general dogsbodies etc.....

He was obviously cleaning the toilets early before everyone was up and about,it is peak season and the site is very busy.

I intend to have a word with the chap before we leave tomorrow and ask him why he was cleaning the toilets with the m/home freshwater filler pipe,I will then do a MHF campsite review with my findings which will name the site and our members can make their own minds up.


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Someones earlier suggested it 'couldnt possibly be a CC site as the standards are too high'. Well, our last CC site (CL) had no washbasin in the loo. This could be argued to be worse than having no loo full stop.

Russells mentioned fresh water hosepipes extending down to where grey waste is dumped. The ones ive seen have aways stopped well short of the ground, and so they should for various reasons.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

You can go hygiene daft. How many times have you reeled in your long hose pipe across the grass or car park floor or like the other poster said emptied the thetford and then handled the hose or fresh water supply. How many of us help ourselves to freebies at the supermarket hot counter or in the bar of a pub not knowing of the person previously diving in has washed their hands?

Who cares?


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Mick757 said:


> Someones earlier suggested it 'couldnt possibly be a CC site as the standards are too high'. Well, our last CC site (CL) had no washbasin in the loo. This could be argued to be worse than having no loo full stop.


Well I'm sorry, but that's just plain silly! It was a CL for crying out loud, which is a farmer's field. Most CLs don't even have lavatories and if you find one with a loo then it's a bonus as you're not filling your on-board one. So you have to walk back to your 'van to wash your hands - big deal!

How can you possibly criticise the Caravan Club's site standards by bringing in moans about a CL?

I repeat, Caravan Club sites are of a very high standard and I think that most of know what I'm referring to when I say 'Caravan Club sites'.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

barryd said:


> You can go hygiene daft.
> 
> Who cares?


Obviously many people care. If you don't mind filling your tank by pushing in the end of a hose that's just been stuck in some sh*tty lavatory then that's fine and good luck to you. I hope that you and your wife never get a nasty E-coli infection because if you do your holiday will be ruined!

We seem to be moving from those who are over-cautious about hygiene to one or two people who seem to want to prove how macho they are by totally ignoring basic common-sense precautions.

As I've said earlier, I'm no fusspot and can't be bothered with food grade hoses and all that stuff but there are limits, and sticking a hose down a lavatory that you know will soon be stuck into someone's water tank is should be beyond any sensible person's limit!


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Hobbyfan said:


> As I've said earlier, I'm no fusspot and can't be bothered with food grade hoses and all that stuff but there are limits, and sticking a hose down a lavatory that you know will soon be stuck into someone's water tank is should be beyond any sensible person's limit!


But the risk is probably no more than leaving your gas on all the time................. :wink:


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## dikyenfo (Feb 16, 2008)

After running campsites in France for 6 years I can state that NEVER use any hose that has a long length.
Blockages occur all the tine due to socks and T shirts and a lot worse being dumped into the bogs. Standard practice was always to push the hose to the blockage and turn on full pressure. One camp owner had put a 90 degree t junction to a static of mine and when the entire run of pipe was full to the toilet top I would receive notice that all was not well.
The cure the owner did was to dig up the pipe junction and use a chain saw to open up the pipe and the spray was amazing- this was bbq time!!
then the obligatory yellow hose was used to clear out the residue.
The pipe was duly mended by wrapping a plastic bag round the pipe and recovering with sand.
This site at this time of year on the Vendee charges 35 Eurines a night!!!!!
Keep away from yellow hoses.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Toilets*

Pretty bad but not the worst. 
Last year whilst staying at Grande Spette Nr St Omer I exited the Gents only to be summoned into the ladies by one of the cleaning ladies.

Basically she wondered if I had any ideas as to how a cubicle could have got into such a state. It was quite an unbelievable sight, not being able to spell faeces I will use the common word. 
There was sh1t on every surface including the ceiling. 
It was as though someone, presumably female had exploded.

The two cleaning ladies proceeded to blast the block with a large high pressure water hose before continuing further.

This site is usually spotless and we felt quite sorry for these poor women who had to clean up this mess. Wonder how ofter they encounter such events ?

Steve


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Cleaning*

Wakk

I know what you were doing in there (LOL) but meant "should you have been there when cleaning was taking place"

The CCC for example close the toilet blocks when cleaning is in place as there are chemicals in use, plus buckets and mops etc that could be a trip hazard.

The chances are if you approach the owner, "it was a totally different hosepipe, squire"

Let us know though.

Russell


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: Toilets*



pneumatician said:


> Pretty bad but not the worst.
> Last year whilst staying at Grande Spette Nr St Omer I exited the Gents only to be summoned into the ladies by one of the cleaning ladies.
> 
> Basically she wondered if I had any ideas as to how a cubicle could have got into such a state. It was quite an unbelievable sight, not being able to spell faeces I will use the common word.
> ...


Blame it on the moules!! :lol:

Has there been an issue of wooden spoons that I've missed? :roll:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Hobbyfan said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > You can go hygiene daft.
> ...


I agree its not good if they were using the same hose and I dont think I would be too happy about it. I wasnt trying to appear all macho but there does seem to be a tendancy these days for everyone being H&S and clinically clean obsessed which can have the reverse effect of when you are exposed to a few germs your imune system is just rubbish so you do get ill.

I remember being driven around the streets of Cairo once and there were people selling bread and food and stuff on the street that was black with exhaust fumes and grime. locals still bought it and I bet they were not ill. If we bought that stuff we would be ill. Point is its good to be exposed to a few getms but perhaps filling your tank from a hose thats been shoved down a loo is going a bit too far!


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## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> You can go hygiene daft. How many times have you reeled in your long hose pipe across the grass or car park floor or like the other poster said emptied the thetford and then handled the hose or fresh water supply. How many of us help ourselves to freebies at the supermarket hot counter or in the bar of a pub not knowing of the person previously diving in has washed their hands?
> 
> Who cares?


huge difference what you describe above compare to drinking hose down toilet


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Hobbyfan said:


> Mick757 said:
> 
> 
> > Someones earlier suggested it 'couldnt possibly be a CC site as the standards are too high'. Well, our last CC site (CL) had no washbasin in the loo. This could be argued to be worse than having no loo full stop.
> ...


It seems some folk are a bit blinkered when it comes to CC sites. If they looked around, theyd find many private/indie sites with just as high standards as CC sites - and for half the money! (and often a more agreeable 'neighbours' into the bargain - the rudest weve come across were CC members, so dont give me the holier-than-thou rubbbish!)


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Mick757 said:


> It seems some folk are a bit blinkered when it comes to CC sites. If they looked around, theyd find many private/indie sites with just as high standards as CC sites - and for half the money! (and often a more agreeable 'neighbours' into the bargain - the rudest weve come across were CC members, so dont give me the holier-than-thou rubbbish!)


Where did I ever say that other sites are not of high quality?What I have said is that CC sites are of a consistently high quality, which cannot be said for all independent sites.

There are some cracking independent sites but there are some very poor ones but I've yet to come across a poor CC site.

As for your claim that there are independent sites that are as good as CC sites at half the price, please name them - come on, put your money where your mouth is!

I've just spent a fortnight in Gower, Somerset and Wiltshire. We'd a mixture of CC sites, CLs and wild camping.

Prices for two adults and the motorhome, including EHU and superb facilities were: Gower £15.50, Bristol £17.00 and the most expensive was Cirencester at £20.00.

On the way back we stopped at the Shropshire Wenlock CC site, which is in a superb location but has no toilet block - it was £9.00 a night!

Now let's have this list of first-class independent sites in similar locations for half of these prices!

Ps If you know all these first-class, independent sites at such low prices, what were you doing on a Caravan Club CL, which must have been between seven and ten pounds?


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

_There was sh1t on every surface including the ceiling. 
It was as though someone, presumably female had exploded. _

Been there, got the T-shirt.

In my swimming pool days I remember a juvenile gala with competitors from all over the county.

I was called into the gents changing rooms.

It looked as though a cow had exploded!
There was green dia-whatsit everywhere.
Not just in the cubicle but all over the washbasins, in the showers - everywhere.

The poor lad must have been very ill but we never identified the culprit so gawd knows what got into the pool water.

It took two of us to clean it up, definitely wore my wellies instead of sandals!


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> Erm, well, sorry but worse things happen at sea.


Fair points Russell- a bit like those shop assistants who put gloves on to put your cake in a bag then keep the same ones on to take your money and give you change :roll:

Still- I'd like to know which campsite it was on O.P.


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

greenasthegrass said:


> Have to agree with Russell on this point - sometimes we are a bit too hygienic and germs are often good for you.....


Whilst the reported incident that starts this thread is, at face value,
totally unacceptable, I agree with Greenie - the hygiene standard imposed today do not allow people to build up a resistance to germs.
As a child there was never any suggestion from my parents that I shouldn't eat food that had been dropped on the (earth) kitchen floor in our farmhouse  
Since I left home >45 years ago I have worked and eaten all over the world, mainly in fairly "underdeveloped" locations and I have never had any sort of illness/stomach upset  
Those dirty sausages my parents fed me seem to have stood me in good stead 8)


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

pippin said:


> _There was sh1t on every surface including the ceiling. ........It took two of us to clean it up, definitely wore my wellies instead of sandals!_


_
Dispite all that, I have just enjoyed my dinner :roll: 
That very nice bottle of Pinot must have taken my mind off pippin's text and allow me to concentrate mainly on the subject in hand but I couldn't quite clear my mind of what his T-shirt looked like:wink:_


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## Bernies (Mar 22, 2007)

There is no excuse for this!!!... and whilst germs do very little harm to normal healthy people - bear in mind how many people go away in their motorhomes to recover/recuperate after treatment for cancer and other conditions which leave their immune systems compromised!

This should not have happened, environmental health should be informed.


How many of us would have a cup of tea from a cup washed down the toilet? .... NONE! 


Carol

Bernie's OH


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Just an update to my original post,

Before we left I asked the site manager why he was using the recommended water filling hose to clean out the toilet bowl,his reply was that it was an isolated incident as the toilet was blocked and that he had cleaned the hose thoroughly afterwards.

I still think this procedure was out of order and very unhygenic but have decided to leave it at that as if I did publicise the site on the forum it would be my word against his,they were no witnesses as it was 7am and no-one about.

The advice I would give is not to use any tap with a long hose permanently attached that is near a toilet block.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

His excuse was that the toilet was blocked so he had to put the water filling hose down the toilet to clear it.

That's all right then! Glad it was nothing likely to cause cross contamination.


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## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

wakk44 said:


> Just an update to my original post,
> 
> I still think this procedure was out of order and very unhygenic but have decided to leave it at that as if I did publicise the site on the forum it would be my word against his,they were no witnesses as it was 7am and no-one about.
> 
> The advice I would give is not to use any tap with a long hose permanently attached that is near a toilet block.


Having followed this thread you now choose to "leave it".
Why not name the site?
If only for information?

Clemmo


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

clemmo said:


> Having followed this thread you now choose to "leave it".
> Why not name the site?
> If only for information?
> 
> Clemmo


Fair point Clemmo, but I don't want to get involved in anything that could be construed as libellous on a public forum,particularly as it would be my word against the managers and he would more than likely deny it.

If anyone is going to Cornwall and wants to avoid the site in question then send me a pm and I will let you know .


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## tincan (Jul 31, 2006)

pippin said:


> _There was sh1t on every surface including the ceiling.
> It was as though someone, presumably female had exploded. _
> 
> Been there, got the T-shirt.
> ...


Sounds like the lad had a dose of salts, somersaults


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Wakk, why not put an entry in the database saying when you were there. Then you don't need to say anything which could be used against you. Maybe just say how well the toilets were cleaned, even round the bend.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*hygeine*

Sorry but I can't believe that there are so many who are cavalier about hygiene. I like to be there if you contract Giardiasis or Cryptosporidium (see my article) there is no known cure and only the immune system can get rid of them aided by diet. It is very common and can be fatal in the elderly and children and the only way to avoid it is by not being in contact with them; which means good hygiene practice and not letting contaminated hoses and the like be in contact with drinking water tanks or containers. It is not luck that the anus is just as far from the mouth as it can be! :roll:

Another thing that really annoys me is the number of people I observe that do not wash there hands after using the toilet. last week I saw a someone go for a dump and not wash his hands afterwards. When I followed him out he was reading the magazines in the information booth no doubt depositing bacteria for the next person to pick them up. Next day I was talking to an elderly guy who had been taken into hospital at 3am the previous Sunday with a dose of the Norovirus and spent 2 days in quarantine and spoilt his holiday. Who knows where he got it from but poor hygiene practice certainly doesn't help.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

aultymer said:


> Wakk, why not put an entry in the database saying when you were there. Then you don't need to say anything which could be used against you. Maybe just say how well the toilets were cleaned, even round the bend.


What a good idea aultymer 

HERE it is.


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## patnles (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: hygeine*



zappy61 said:


> Sorry but I can't believe that there are so many who are cavalier about hygiene. I like to be there if you contract Giardiasis or Cryptosporidium (see my article) there is no known cure and only the immune system can get rid of them aided by diet. It is very common and can be fatal in the elderly and children and the only way to avoid it is by not being in contact with them; which means good hygiene practice and not letting contaminated hoses and the like be in contact with drinking water tanks or containers. It is not luck that the anus is just as far from the mouth as it can be! :roll:
> 
> Another thing that really annoys me is the number of people I observe that do not wash there hands after using the toilet. last week I saw a someone go for a dump and not wash his hands afterwards. When I followed him out he was reading the magazines in the information booth no doubt depositing bacteria for the next person to pick them up. Next day I was talking to an elderly guy who had been taken into hospital at 3am the previous Sunday with a dose of the Norovirus and spent 2 days in quarantine and spoilt his holiday. Who knows where he got it from but poor hygiene practice certainly doesn't help.


I totally agree. We make frequent hospital visits to an oncology clinic where many patients are undergoing chemo. People receiving chemo often become immuno-compromised and have a very high risk of infection which would be inconvenient to most people but can be fatal to anyone with a lowered immune system.

It is amazing how many patients that use the toilet facilities in the waiting room, exit without washing hands. I get so incensed, I feel like calling them back to wash hands. :evil:

I had always thought that lack of hand hygiene was down to lack of education, but listening to them chatting in the waiting room, they sound like normal, educated people. :evil: There are enough notices around the hospital so why do people ignore them? :evil: I'm constantly reminding Pat not to touch _anything_ as he is frequently hospitalised when he gets any infection.

When we're away in the mh we're extra careful and try to avoid touching anything in the toilet area after washing our hands and if we have to touch door handles etc., we carry hand gel. 
Sorry for going a little off topic but the OP and the recent loss of a mhf member to legionnaires, has worried me a great deal.

Barryd: We were not "hygiene daft" until 5 yrs ago and it would be so much easier not to be, but there are many _illnesses_ that can suppress a persons immune system, In my case, it was simply an adverse reaction to a prescribed anti-inflammatory drug.
Lesley


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: hygeine*



zappy61 said:


> last week I saw a someone go for a dump and not wash his hands afterwards. When I followed him out . . .


 . . . you (presumably) used the same door handle that he had just used to exit the toilets, so you were his first victim!! 8O 8O

That's the bit which should concern people - but very few seem to think of the obvious!! :roll:

It only needs one to contaminate everyone who follows him (or her) for hours - until *and assuming that* the cleaners do actually wipe down the door handles. :roll:

And I bet next month's pension that they don't!!! 8O

Dave


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