# Decent payload for a 3500kg motorhome - is it possible?



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I am contemplating replacing my 4250kg Rapido in a year or so and would like if possible to get a new one with a MGW of 3500kg.

I fancied a more or less direct replacement with the Rapido 790DF which has a published MIRO of 3150kg +/- 5%. This seems to me to be sailing close to the wind especially when 2nd battery, awning and spare wheel is added. 


I am prepared to travel light but is it really possible to get a motorhome with a decent spec and fixed bed layout and have about 500kg payload on a 3500kg chassis?


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Don't think it is feasible Ray,a lower MGVW has the inevitable trade off of smaller payload.I think your only option is to travel light or down rate the MGVW and hope you don't get pulled by VOSA onto a weighbridge.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Ray, my Hymer Exsis which is 6.75 metre and 3500kg has 670 kg before extras. Awning, refillable Alugas lightweight cylinders,Solar panel, bike rack, 4 extra door locks, TV, but no satellite.
Now, I have never weighed it empty, but we tend to carry everything and the kitchen sink as you know. We carry two outside tables, one for cooking on and the other for eating from, a Cadac, also a two burner & grill, two large chairs, a 2 kw geny, full water, plus extra, twin 11 kg gas tanks. Spare gas regulator, water pump, socket and tool kit, tow jacks and blocks and a spare wheel!
Two bikes, lots of bits and pieces, far too many clothes, a few bottles of wine, beer and god knows what else. On the weighbridge, ready for a long tour, with the two of us, it is just under, and I mean just under the 3500kg.
Ours is on the Ford Transit, the newer ones are on the Fiat.
One thing to be wary about, is that the new payload figures are based on only 20 litres of water in the tank and one gas bottle.
Other manufacturers have also started to make these light weigh vans, so there are alternatives, also as you know you can go shorter.
The van is not as high and not as wide, this saves considerable body panel weight.
Yes, it is possible, for two people, not sure if carrying more.
Incidentally, when we went away this year with our daughters dog and food, this would have put us over weight, but I could have carried less water to compensate.
I deliberately downsized to a 3500kg vehicle due to more and more Go Box type of road pricing, and also thinking of future medicals.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Grath said:


> Ray, my Hymer Exsis which is 6.75 metre and 3500kg has 670 kg before extras. Awning, refillable Alugas lightweight cylinders,Solar panel, bike rack, 4 extra door locks, TV, but no satellite.
> Now, I have never weighed it empty, but we tend to carry everything and the kitchen sink as you know. We carry two outside tables, one for cooking on and the other for eating from, a Cadac, also a two burner & grill, two large chairs, a 2 kw geny, full water, plus extra, twin 11 kg gas tanks. Spare gas regulator, water pump, socket and tool kit, tow jacks and blocks and a spare wheel!
> Two bikes, lots of bits and pieces, far too many clothes, a few bottles of wine, beer and god knows what else. On the weighbridge, ready for a long tour, with the two of us, it is just under, and I mean just under the 3500kg.
> Ours is on the Ford Transit, the newer ones are on the Fiat.
> ...


I have looked at the Excis-t688 and it on my consider list. Miro is 2880 so it can be done.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Just about every Rapido I have ever looked at has been VERY short on payload BEFORE the "usual" extra's have been added.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Just about every Rapido I have ever looked at has been VERY short on payload BEFORE the "usual" extra's have been added.


My Rapido has loads of payload but is of course 4250kg. It appears from my preliminary work that Rapido are not alone in providing meager payloads on 3500kg chassis, especially if you want a decent spec..


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

My Autocruise Tempo has a payload of over 600kg

in a PVC.....but lose the space to walk around in.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

rayc said:


> I am contemplating replacing my 4250kg Rapido in a year or so and would like if possible to get a new one with a MGW of 3500kg.
> 
> I fancied a more or less direct replacement with the Rapido 790DF which has a published MIRO of 3150kg +/- 5%. This seems to me to be sailing close to the wind especially when 2nd battery, awning and spare wheel is added.
> 
> I am prepared to travel light but is it really possible to get a motorhome with a decent spec and fixed bed layout and have about 500kg payload on a 3500kg chassis?


Not quite finished the build yet, but I put it on a weighbridge last week and by my calculations I should have a payload of between 700-500kg, more likely to be nearer the latter, I have had to guess the weight of the last few bits.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rayc said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Ray, my Hymer Exsis which is 6.75 metre and 3500kg has 670 kg before extras. Awning, refillable Alugas lightweight cylinders,Solar panel, bike rack, 4 extra door locks, TV, but no satellite.
> ...


Ray, as I mentioned above, I bet that is with only 20 litres of water and one gas tank. Proably, by the time it is in proper running order, it may be around 3100kg (Full water for wilding, twin gas and full fuel!
You may need to go a little shorter, maybe the 578 is a little lighter. I have not checked!


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## NormanB (Sep 8, 2005)

The new Carthargo C Tourer I & T's can start at 2800kgs with a 70kg driver plus 20 liters water. Gives 700kgs payload but extras can soon gobble it up. They can have central drop down bed, too.


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## Cyclewalkbob (Oct 18, 2011)

My Burstner Nexxo t660 weighs in at weigh bridge at 3150kgs.

That is fully loaded with a full tank of diesel, two bikes, two batteries and a full complement of clothes etc for a months trip away.

We usually only carry a quarter tank of water.

That gives us 350kgs for wine!


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## McGeemobile (Jun 10, 2010)

I read somewhere recently that some of the new vans for 2014 are use more lightweight materials in the construction. Don't know how much difference that will make.


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## gazza333 (Aug 1, 2007)

My rollerteam 695 has an island bed, garage and 620kg of payload.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

gazza333 said:


> My rollerteam 695 has an island bed, garage and 620kg of payload.


I had a look at one at Solent motorhomes in Poole and certainly a lot for the money.


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## gazza333 (Aug 1, 2007)

Had mine a week and I love it. Kitchen storage a bit less than I'm used to but so far that's the only downside and loads on the plus side .


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Our sub 6m Hymer 504 B Class has a MIRO of 2900 kgs. Weighed in UK touring trim, we came in at 3260kg including passenger, two gas bottles, full fuel tank, 20l of water, Comfort-Matic and Cruise Control, and a spare wheel. I am wary of Hymer's calculation of MIROs because their figures smack of their Marketing Department using a bit of spin. 

However, providing we continue to travel light, we should be OK. My biggest concern is that we overload the rear axle and garage.


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## pudddy (Jun 14, 2013)

My Rapido 690 has a 585kg loading margin, quite happy with that!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

pudddy said:


> My Rapido 690 has a 585kg loading margin, quite happy with that!


I assume you need to minus all your gear, fluids and passengers off that figure, which won't leave much left, water = 1kg per litre, diesel = 0.865kg per litre, add the gas bottle/s, food, clothes, booze.

But if the figure takes all the above into account then you're doing well.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> pudddy said:
> 
> 
> > My Rapido 690 has a 585kg loading margin, quite happy with that!
> ...


I believe that figure is the MIRO in accordance with the appropriate EC directive e.g. 75kg driver and 90% fuel, gas and water. The water could be reduced to 20 ltrs if stated.

It is of interest though that the Rapido 2014 catalog omits any technical information regarding MIRO / payload and only the statement;

"Rapido kerb weights include the weight of standard equipment. Clear information and optimal payloads: RAPIDO designs and manufactures vehicles which boast the maximum optimisation of their weight and payload so you can carry everything you want."

This appears to be a very vague statement and the cynic in me wonders why.
http://www.rapido-motorhome.co.uk/guide_equipements.php


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## Crazywater (May 18, 2011)

Would people consider leaving the spare wheel at home? I'm considering this due to a recent experience. 

I have a Ford S-Max and these do not have a spare wheel. I've had it 7 years and have 170,000km (106,250mi) on the clock. Anyway, two days ago it finally happened, I got my first puncture. Now the car comes with a compressor and 'gunk' but I had little faith in that. But I did have a can of Tyre inflator. 

To be honest I didn't have a lot of faith in this either but I was astounded as to how well it worked. Within 5 minutes I was on the road. Wheel fully inflated and hard as a rock. Dropped the kids to school and made my way to the local tyre repair shop. He popped out the nail finished the repair (it does no damage to the tyre) and I went on my merry way.  

During the summer for practice at home, I jacked up my camper and took off wheels, lowered the spared etc. One thing I have learnt from this exercise is that I never intend to do it if I get a puncture out on the road. My plan of action is Tyre inflator and if that doesn't work call the breakdown service and let them change the wheel. 

But as I said, to give me more payload, I am giving consideration to leaving the wheel at home altogether. Yes I know there are risks associated with this option and in an ideal world I would not leave it at home. But where weight is an issue it is an option. Spare wheels are dam heavy.

Thoughts...


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

Crazywater said:


> Would people consider leaving the spare wheel at home? I'm considering this due to a recent experience.
> 
> I have a Ford S-Max and these do not have a spare wheel. I've had it 7 years and have 170,000km (106,250mi) on the clock. Anyway, two days ago it finally happened, I got my first puncture. Now the car comes with a compressor and 'gunk' but I had little faith in that. But I did have a can of Tyre inflator.
> 
> ...


What is the difference between 'gunk' and tyre inflator please?
We are thinking of going down the same road i.e. leaving the spare wheel at home. At least we have 4 wheels on the back, so could run steadily if one of those had a flat.


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## Crazywater (May 18, 2011)

leseduts said:


> What is the difference between 'gunk' and tyre inflator please?
> We are thinking of going down the same road i.e. leaving the spare wheel at home. At least we have 4 wheels on the back, so could run steadily if one of those had a flat.


Good question. The car comes with a puncture kit. This consists of a small compressor and about half a litre of white stuff (I call it gunk). You have to screw this to another contraption that pumps it into the wheel. Then continue to inflate with the compressor. If I'm not mistaken if you use this 'gunk' you have to replace the tyre (but I could be wrong, I'll have to check the handbook). Anyway it all seems very complicated and then where do you get more gunk for next time? Back to Ford? I'm sure that wouldn't be cheap.

In contrast, the can of tyre inflator simply connects directly to the valve, turn the cap and hey presto a few minutes later tyre is good to go.


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## Crazywater (May 18, 2011)

This is what I used and it can be got in different sizes. I carry two large ones in the Camper and one in each car.



BTW the S-Max puncture kit looks like this.


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## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

Have a look at Edgehill motorhomes. They seem to have a good stock of Hymer Exsis and should give an idea of payloads, which seems quite good on the face of it


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi Ray

It's perfectly possible to remain under 3500kg with a Rapido DF providing you don't want to carry passengers and you exercise reasonable restraint in your loading of the garage and floor storage. They certainly have sufficient storage space to take them way over the plated weight if you fill it all up. And yes, I have had the van on the weighbridge to check the loaded weight.

We never carry more than 30% fresh water and don't load up the garage with heavy gear. We also only have one leisure battery (quite practical with a good solar panel and LED lights).

On the other hand we do have the 3 litre engine, awning, spare wheel etc. so quite well specified.

The one thing that will throw you overweight if you're not careful is a towbar. The one to fit the current Rapidos weights almost 100kg due to the extension length. I take mine off if going on a long trip with full load.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

gaspode said:


> Hi Ray
> 
> It's perfectly possible to remain under 3500kg with a Rapido DF providing you don't want to carry passengers and you exercise reasonable restraint in your loading of the garage and floor storage. They certainly have sufficient storage space to take them way over the plated weight if you fill it all up. And yes, I have had the van on the weighbridge to check the loaded weight.
> 
> ...


racc(OP) specified that he is prepared to travel light so I think that Gaspode's post answers his question well, while highlighting exactly what one needs to do to keep within the weight.

The other side of the coin is that it illustrates to others, like myself, who want to use the MH differently,e.g. wildcamping, that it is difficult to keep below 3500kg if one wants full water, spare water, spare cassette, bicycles, library etc.

To achieve the latter scenario one would have to go to a much lighter build, which might mean sacrificing quality, which in turn may result in more bits breaking over time.

Being over 70, I worry that there might be a time when I do not pass the medical for >3500kg. That would require a compromise - not something I would relish or Basia would have to pass the test  :lol:

Of course a trailer might solve the problem, but bit messy for wildcamping. I wonder how many people on here manage to wild with a trailer?

Geoff


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Ray, as you know, we have an Exsis with a 670kg payload before fitted extras.
We have an awning, twin Alugas 11 kg bottles, twin cycle rack, spare wheel, solar panel. 
I carry just about everything, including full water tanl and also extra, then two tables, one for cooking on, a cadac, another two burner & grill, tools and socket set, two bikes. Tow jacks and blocks, 2 kw Honda Geny with a long and short lead. Spare water pump, gas regulator and other bits and pieces. Always at least 6 bottles of plonk and a case of beer. Far too many items to wear and lots of other stuff.
For the two of us, we just get by, within the 3500kg. If we had more people we would be over weight. But, although, I do hold a full HGV to drive any size, I deliberately kept to 3500kg, just incase of future medical problems and not forgetting ever increasing go box tolls.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Sorry Guys for the at least two spelling or miss keyed mistakes in my above post  
My only excuse is that I didn't have time to do my usual spell check as Mrs G (Kath) with her coat and shoes on and ready, was pestering me to hurry and take her to Aldi


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

rayc said:


> I am contemplating replacing my 4250kg Rapido in a year or so and would like if possible to get a new one with a MGW of 3500kg.
> 
> I fancied a more or less direct replacement with the Rapido 790DF which has a published MIRO of 3150kg +/- 5%. This seems to me to be sailing close to the wind especially when 2nd battery, awning and spare wheel is added.
> 
> I am prepared to travel light but is it really possible to get a motorhome with a decent spec and fixed bed layout and have about 500kg payload on a 3500kg chassis?


How about going THIS ROUTE, you can order your 3,500kg mh and still retain the same capability of transporting up to 4,250kg without the disadvantages of associated with a trailer and a vehicle over 3,500kg gvw.

The combination would seem to provide the best of both worlds.

Extreme Testing


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jean-Luc said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> > I am contemplating replacing my 4250kg Rapido in a year or so and would like if possible to get a new one with a MGW of 3500kg.
> ...


Very nice, but it is still a trailer - and near Euro 8,000.

Geoff


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Jean-Luc said:
> 
> 
> > rayc said:
> ...


Sure it is a trailer, but it can be used with a B Licence, it has none of the handling drawbacks of a trailer and most importantly it facilitated the use of a vehicle not exceeding 3,500kg GVW so it enabled one to avoid all the restrictions and toll costs associated with vehicles over 3,500kg GVW, while still enabling a significant amount of total payload.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I have seen similar M/C trailers in France with dolly wheels and I must admit that they are dead easy to reverse. Any idiot could do it.
But the price of that box trailer  
What does concern me, is, as it is a dolly, how does the dolly bearing, which will be at 90 degree to the wheels, stand up to long term strain, or if the wheel hits a few pot holes.


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Jean-Luc, your THIS ROUTE isn't working could you post another link please.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

bigtree said:



> Jean-Luc, your THIS ROUTE isn't working could you post another link please.


Hope this one works This Route

and here is the direct link again to Some Serious Testing


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Don't do it Ray! You shouldn't need to count beans like many seem to do, it's not fun and often fantasy.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

For anyone considering leaving the spare wheel behind, check your insurance. It may be invalidated if you don't carry a spare.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

JWW said:


> For anyone considering leaving the spare wheel behind, check your insurance. It may be invalidated if you don't carry a spare.


Can you please clarify. It is not a legal requirement to have a spare wheel and it is not an MOT checked item even if fitted.
If you actually mean Recovery & Breakdown Insurance that is a different thing and the insurer may insist on a spare wheel but is very unlikely to if one was not provided when the car was new. In these days of whole vehicle approval they would be unable to.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Sorry, rayc, I think I have given wrong information there.

I've just checked my van insurance and don't see anything about having to have a spare wheel.

So I think you're right - it must have been a previous breakdown insurance that required it.

We now carry one, so I don't worry about it!


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