# Swift Juddergate



## Telbell

I've posted on this Forum in the hope that Peter or someone from Swift might see it and like to comment:

There are two recent Posts on O and A which refer to Swift M/homes being subjected to Juddergate.

Can you please have a look at 
http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10368&start=241&posts=251
(scroll down page a bit)
-sorry-posted in haste no time to tinyurl it!


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## SwiftGroup

*Judder in reverse*

Just to let you all know that I have seen the threads on this topic and we have raised it with Fiat.

I will respond when I get an answer.

Regards
Kath


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## Telbell

> will respond when I get an answer


Thank you Kath- I'm sure that there are many current and potential owners who would welcome that!


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## MikeH

Hi.
I have just been informed by Fiat, that, following an inspection and approx 60 mile roadtest, ( which they deny, wouldn't need to drive that far) that my MH does not suffer with judder and there is nothing wrong with it. I was advised to rev to above 1300 when reversing. Written report to follow next week. I asked about an Independent Engineers Report, and was told , they (Fiat) wouldn't accept it, because their engineers can't find anything wrong.
The left hand is saying, "there's nothing wrong". and the right hand is saying "it's a characteristic of the vehicle" 
When are they going to hold hands and admit "there is something wrong"?
Mine judders on the slightest incline with or without revs.
On the O & A forum, a garage in Swansea reckons, they have changed about twenty gearboxes, because of this.
Mike H.


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## Telbell

Hope I don't get into bother for this  :roll: but it's worth following the Juddergate threads (all four of them!! :lol: ) on OandA especially Andy Stotherts Posts


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## 38Rover

Wow 20 gearbox's that's a real eye opener and even the reluctant FIAT must have taken real notice.I wonder how many were for a second or subsequent time if all this could be confirmed it would add much weight to the campaign on OUT AND ABOUT LIVE trying to get FIAT to own up to their responsibilities.
Were the new gearbox's any different to the originals I wonder?

Colin Frier


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## riohog

I have a 2008 kontiki 645 and to park on my property I have to reverse up quite a steep gradient, now if I do not give it plenty of revs and ride the clutch it judders mercifully. I dont mind as it only takes a couple of minutes of slipping the clutch to complete the murnouver without judder, but in this short space of time you can smell the clutch burning. 
I am wondering how long the clutch plate will last and if it will be replaced under warrantee. Whether it is a design fault that could be resolved with a more heavy duty clutch kit or a lower reverse ratio I dont know? Proberbly the former whitch would be a more cost effective recall!
Fiat do have an issue here but in my case how long will the clutch plate last 5000 miles or 75000 miles. I can put up with the burning smell if it is the later.

Safe Riding, Ha Ha. 

Riohog


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## MikeH

*Juddergate*

Riohog.
Go to outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums there are three threads on there all about Fiat clutch judder.
Mike H.


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## Grizzly

Telbell said:


> I've posted on this Forum in the hope that Peter or someone from Swift might see it and like to comment:
> 
> T


It's a bit below the belt to call this "Swift" Juddergate Telbell.

As far as I can see from the evidence the base vehicle is at fault and the ones with judder are found on several other makes of vans - and not just motorhomes.

I'm sure Swift are as interested as any other dealer in finding out what is happening but it is not their fault.

Incidentally I put up another thread on the subject yesterday asking people to send details to Diamond Dave at Practical Motorhome magazine.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-42030.html

G


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## Telbell

Grizzly

I make no apologies for this. The reason I mentioned Swift specifically is that Andy Stothert tested some Swifts and found the "judder"-. He mentioned the Swift by name- hence the link I provided.

The Swift company took up the cudgels as regards Water Ingress and have been in contact with Fiat about that particular problem. They came up with their own fix and this has been well documented. Swift seem to have led the way so far as I have seen from many Posts on that topic.

I asked the question in the opening Post to establish whether they had also been in contact with Fiat about the "judder". 

It seems they have, and Kath was content to confirm this the day following my initial Post. Kath has promised to update us following any reply from Fiat and I am content to await such an update.

I'm surprised that you seem to have taken this as a criticism of Swift. Rather, it's a reflection of the fact that they have been proactive as regards other x/250 problems and I was wondering if they had recognised that customers had identified Judder problems and establish that dialogue was taking place.

I'm sure all current and prospective owners of x/250's look forward to any response Fiat make to Swift.


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## Grizzly

Telbell said:


> Grizzly
> I asked the question in the opening Post to establish whether they had also been in contact with Fiat about the "judder".
> t.


Morning Telbell....point taken but I don't think I would be alone in thinking that the heading on the post implies that juddergate is a Swift characteristic.

Swift took a lot of stick last year and it was brave- and shrewd- of them to come on the forum, put their hands up and work their socks off to regain the image they used to have.

I'd hate to see them blamed, even by implication. for something that is entirely up to the makers of Sevel chassis. Andy S and others have tested a range of makes and found this judder on them all.

We're all grateful for the clout that Swift can bring to dealings with the chassis makers and I am anxious that a casual reader of the forum does not think that the problem is up to Swift.

G


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## rowley

I agree with that Grizzly. I do feel sorry for Swift, they are trying so hard yet Fiat are really letting them down. It is a shame because the X250 is a super drive. The first time that I reversed my Twin it juddered badly. Because I am now aware of it I think that I must unconsciously compensate for it as it does not now bother me.


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## RichardnGill

> It's a bit below the belt to call this "Swift" Juddergate Telbell.


I fully agree, this is simply a Fiat problem and hopefully Swift might be able to support owners. But as said someone might think the problem is only Swift M/h's when it clearly is not.

I hope Fiat can get this sorted as we might have been in the market for a new M/H but after reading the O&A fourm link I have serious doubt about an X250. I could have lived with the water problem but the possability of cluch and gear box failur is as bad as it gets for me.

Richard...


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## Telbell

> someone might think the problem is only Swift M/h's when it clearly is not.


- that would very much surprise me given the hundreds of Posts on "Fiat" etc....

OK - since original posting, 5 Posters who make no comment about the thread Title and therefore (presumably) see no implied criticism, (including Swift themselves) and three who come forward and support Grizzly.

So- can we change the thread title?? The reason for including "Swift" and "Juddergate" in the title was to bring Swift's attention to the subject I was asking about.

Shall we remove the word "Swift"? But as the thread is (surely rightly?) within the "Swift" Forum could this stiil be seen as a criticism of Swift?

My thoughts were that if I'd asked the question within the general "juddergate/reversing problems" thread it may not have been seen by Swift (I'm sure they have better things to do than troll through ALL Forums/Posts)

Sorry for the repetition but....the very reason I addressed the post to Swift was that I knew they had supported owners in the past by talking to Fiat, and I wanted to "flag up" if they had spoken specifically about this problem, and, in the interests of current and potential x/250 owners, what any response had been.



> Andy S and others have tested a range of makes


Yes judder has been found on other makes but we are lucky to have Swift as members and a resource to seek information from.



> and found this judder on them all.


Slightly off topic but this isn't quite true. "Others" have been on Forums and denied they have had problems when reversing uphill. I get quite concerned when A.S. then asks them to go back and try again! (presumably until he gets the result he wants :wink: ) Hardly credible research :wink:

Anyway- back to topic: I'll gladly apologise to Swift if they saw it as a criticism and if the Mods wish to alter/remove/move the thread it's ok by me. Always willing to learn from experience :wink:

Kath has said they will respond as and if Fiat get back to them and I'm sure we all look forward to what they might have to say.


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## Grizzly

Telbell said:


> [
> So- can we change the thread title?? The reason for including "Swift" and "Juddergate" in the title was to bring Swift's attention to the subject I was asking about.
> 
> .


How about a PM to Swift to alert them to your posting which could have a more general title: [/I] Any dealer responses to Juddergate ? _ is one that springs to mind.

G_


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## Telbell

But they've been alerted to the Posting...and as far as I can tell haven't objected


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## SwiftGroup

*Judder in reverse*

Hello everyone

Thanks for your supportive comments and thinking about protecting our reputation on whether it is exclusive to Swift or not.

I have taken the start of the post as it was intended and that the forum would appreciate the manaufacturer to get involved in order to gain an official response from Fiat.

Riohog, I would appreciate you giving us your vehicle details - as you cannot send a PM please contact us directly on 01482 875740 or email us at [email protected]

Thanks Kath


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## Telbell

THanks Kath-glad you didn't take offence.


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## Telbell

> I will respond when I get an answer


Hi Kath

Nothing back from Fiat yet?

Thanks


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## SwiftGroup

*Judder in reverse*

We are expecting a response at the end of next week.

Kath


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## Telbell

> I have seen the threads on this topic and we have raised it with Fiat.


Hi Kath
It's been a month now since you communicated with Fiat.

What do they have to say about "the judder"?


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## Telbell

Anyone there at Swift who can tell us what Fiat had to say to you about the Judder situation?

Thanks


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## SwiftGroup

Telbell said:


> Anyone there at Swift who can tell us what Fiat had to say to you about the Judder situation?
> 
> Thanks


I will chase them up!Peter.


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## Telbell

Thanks Peter- 5 weeks and still no reply to a communication from a converter which must give them tens of thousands of pounds of business annually :roll:


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## SwiftGroup

Telbell said:


> Thanks Peter- 5 weeks and still no reply to a communication from a converter which must give them tens of thousands of pounds of business annually :roll:


I'm afraid it is still silence they have again promised to give an answer shortly.Peter.


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## Telbell

THanks again-I'll watch the space!


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## Telbell

Sorry Swift........time to bring it up again....any reply from Fiat?


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## SwiftGroup

*Fiat Response*

Swift have raised this concern with Fiat.

Fiat are aware of customer complaints and are looking to finding a technical solution.

Fiat have asked that any customers who expereince this problem should contact Customer Care Fiat UK. Swift customers should contact the dedicated Fiat Motor Home Customer Centre 00825 3428 111 (back up +39 0244412160)

Fiat have confirmed that they are keen to keep in direct contact with any customers who have this issue.

We will monitor this with Fiat on a monthly basis.

Regards
Kath


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## Telbell

Thank you Kath


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## 102685

Who better to ask the question of Fiat than one of their major customers?

Fiat have known about this problem for a long time & have so far refused to acknowledge any problem or that they have any obligation to provide some reassurance to their customers.

If Swift have hit a wall of silence with Fiat & cannot get a response within 6 weeks!!! then what chance an individual??? Us mere mortals have been ignored for months. This should answer those that believe that Fiat are happy to recall & fix problematic vehicles, 'it just takes time, give them a chance' i don't remember seeing any recalls regarding fixing leaky scuttles & fitting engine covers.

I hear that one of the sevel clan have already changed the wording of their warranty to specifically exclude clutch judder, if you're buying a new one then check your documents.

It's a good idea if your vehicle suffers this problem to contact Fiat & make an official complaint & obtain a case number, it may be useful at some stage. You'll be told that it's a 'within tolerance characteristic' of the vehicle & that you're not driving it properly, but at least you'll have some record that your vehicle does have a problem, albeit a normal, acceptable problem.

The question i would like to ask ALL converters is....... Are vehicles that judder, knowingly being converted & shipped from factories for customers to invest their life savings in? I would like to think that this is not the case.

I have no axe to grind with Swift & the question above is in no way directed specifically at them, nor is it my intention to single them out & associate them with juddergate in any way. On the contrary, i respect their presence here. However, this is a sorry situation that raises some uncomfortable questions.

Bryan


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## Telbell

> We will monitor this with Fiat on a monthly basis.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter/Kath
> 
> I think you (and we?) are due an update round about now......
> so what do Fiat have to say?
Click to expand...


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## 96299

Logged my judder complaint with my dealer,FiART uk and my FiART dealership yesterday.Today I had a call from FiART UK and they asked me to book my bus in for some tests.This i will do as soon as I can.Will obviously let everyone know the outcome.  

steve


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## Telbell

Steve- are you a Swift????? If not- wrong thread :wink:


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## 96299

Telbell said:


> Steve- are you a Swift????? If not- wrong thread :wink:


ooops  So it is...... :lol:

steve


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## Telbell

> Peter/Kath
> I think you (and we?) are due an update round about now......
> so what do Fiat have to say?


Anything from Fiat?


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## SwiftGroup

*Fiat*

I will chase a response

Kath


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## Wytonknaus

Telbell said:


> Steve- are you a Swift????? If not- wrong thread :wink:


I never realised that Lunar were from the Swift stable!!! :lol:


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## Telbell

> I never realised that Lunar were from the Swift stable!!!


Correct! But if you have a couple of days to spare read a few thousand Posts on a few hundred threads and you'll see I have a vested interest! :lol: 
....and anyway-shouldn't we all be interested in Fiat's reaction to Swift's questions?? :wink:


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## Telbell

> I will chase a response


What do they say?-waiting with baited breath!


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## Wytonknaus

Telbell said:


> I will chase a response
> 
> 
> 
> What do they say?-waiting with baited breath!
Click to expand...

I would be intrigued to know what Lunar have discovered from Fiat.

It does seem a little unfair for someone who is not a customer of Swift to keep chasing the Swift Customer Service department, if you were to chase Lunar we could have two companies on the case to solve the problems.


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## Telbell

> if you were to chase Lunar we could have two companies on the case to solve the problems.


I've "chased" Lunar-difference is they don't come on here. Swift have much more of the Fiat market than Lunar.

We've praised Swift on here before for being upfront and honest and I've no reason to believe they won't be so with us in their communications with Fiat.

I just find it amazing that a "valuable" (presumably) customer of Fiat such as Swift have to do so much chasing up.

I make no apologies, and from her previous Posts Kath is not asking for any.


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## Telbell

> I will chase a response


Any joy yet? Surely Fiat can't continue to protest that it's a vehicle chracteristic" or "driver technique" in the light of the increasing (albeit slow) attention the issue is now getting from the magazines?


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## SwiftGroup

*Fiat*

I have no response from Fiat at the moment. As soon as we have a response I will post one on here.

Regards
Kath


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## SwiftGroup

Telbell said:


> I will chase a response
> 
> 
> 
> Any joy yet? Surely Fiat can't continue to protest that it's a vehicle chracteristic" or "driver technique" in the light of the increasing (albeit slow) attention the issue is now getting from the magazines?
Click to expand...

We have a meeting with Fiat booked for Wednesday when we will ask them about it I suspect they will shrug their shoulders but I will ask.I personally dont find it a problem reversing slowly solo or with my car and trailor.Peter.


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## Telbell

Thanks Kath( :roll: )


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## Telbell

Bump


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## Telbell

> We have a meeting with Fiat booked for Wednesday when we will ask them about it I suspect they will shrug their shoulders but I will ask


Peter-how did your meeting go? (Back in May)


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## roclaire

*peter*

what is responce from fiat ,when you had your meeting????its gone very quite from your end..


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## Telbell

Bump


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## roclaire

*gearbox on new fiat*

come on peter .give us an answer ...you have gone very quite ,even though people are asking you ....if the germans ask you at dusseldorf .next week what will your answer be ..?????


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## hilldweller

*Re: gearbox on new fiat*



roclaire said:


> come on peter .give us an answer ...you have gone very quite ,even though people are asking you ....if the germans ask you at dusseldorf .next week what will your answer be ..?????


"ICH BIN EIN BERLINER"
Well it went down very well once before 

Sorry about that, I couldn't resist 

I wonder how Hymer will answer that question ?

Though the only answer that matters is the one from Fiat.


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## SwiftGroup

*Re: gearbox on new fiat*



roclaire said:


> come on peter .give us an answer ...you have gone very quite ,even though people are asking you ....if the germans ask you at dusseldorf .next week what will your answer be ..?????


I will refer them to Fiat i am not able to quote on Fiats behalf! All I can say is that I have no problem reversing my Motorhome I have also said yesterday that I will speak to Fiat direct on behlf of any Swift Group customer.Dont hold your breath waiting for Hymer et all comunicating direct with their customers.Peter.


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## 96410

What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?

Ring Fiat customer service number maybe they will tell you.

This is Fiat's problem and Fiat will come up with a solution, but with probably 100,000 vans in circulation they will be looking for the cheapest option at the moment.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

subaru said:


> What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?
> 
> *Ring Fiat customer service number maybe they will tell you*


Hear Hear, couldnt agree more.

But then they maybe would have to pay for the call

Words on here are free and Fiat dont read and respond to Fiat problems unlike *Swift who respond to problems if they occur with their habitation conversions*

Peter


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## javea

I posted the following on the main Fiat judder thread this morning and feel perhaps it is more pertinent to this topic so here it is again:

I have a Hymer based on an X250 chassis/engine. Hymer must be the largest manufacturer in Europe when you consider how many makes now fall under their umbrella.

They can't get an adequate response from Fiat so I think it is very unfair to critisize Swift who, although large in the UK, must be minute in comparison with Hymer. You don't see Hymer putting their heads above the firing line on this forum.

I am independent as a Hymer owner, and I must congratulate Peter, Kath et al for their presence on the forum, and for the action that they take in respect of repairs/modifications to the part of the product that they can influence. If I were to consider a UK brand when next I change they would certainly be top of the list.[/quote]


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## aultymer

> What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?


It is really simple -The buyer has no contract with Fiat, only with the motorhome manufacturer.

ALL Motorhome manufacturers have a choice of base vehicles to work with - they make that choice based on many factors. They are the suppliers of the complete vehicle, not Fiat.

When did your car manufacturer last say to you ' we don't make the fuel pump (or any other part), sir, you will have to complain to the manufacturer if it goes wrong'!! 
Does your house builder send you to the roof truss manufacturer if one of them fail? 
We are talking about a major component here not a fridge or wiper blade.

If MH manufacturers were to take responsibility for the failings there would be many more satisfied customers and I suspect a quicker move to more reliable base vehicles.

I really am not getting at Swift but am trying to answer the above question. I wish Swift well in their efforts to become a bigger player in this game. I wish Johns Cross could get the Hymer franchise.
I will never consider a Swift until they have an 'A' class and a more reliable base vehicle ( that may, in years to come, be a Fiat, but I will not hold my breath on that one ).


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## hilldweller

aultymer said:


> What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?
> 
> 
> 
> It is really simple -The buyer has no contract with Fiat, only with the motorhome manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Close but no lollipop, The Buyer almost certainly has a contract with A Dealer, who has a contract with The Converter who probably has a contract with A Chassis Manufacturer, but we don't know for sure.

It's a horrible position for The Buyer to be in.


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## 96410

aultymer,
Your right, the customer has a contract with Swift and not Fiat, So when a gearbox does fail, customer goes back to dealer and van gets taken to Fiat for a new gearbox.

I know this because i had new box fitted in my autotrail in only 400 miles,took it back to a FIAT garage (NOT MOTORHOME DEALER) and new box fitted, i did'nt even ring supplying dealer to tell them gearbox had gone.

My point is Fiat took full responsibility and Autotrail had nothing to do with it.


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## aultymer

> Close but no lollipop


Thanks hilldweller, in my rush to get something out I confused those who buy direct from a manufacturer with the greater number who buy and have a contract with a dealer.

subaru, no matter where the van gets fixed it is the responsibility of your Motorhome dealer to get it done.

I am a bit worried that Dealers and manufacturers have managed to convince so many of you that it is not their problem.



> It's a horrible position for The Buyer to be in.


I agree wholeheartedly and I am so pi**ed of at the distortions to reality that have been fed to people over their poor reversing tecniques and water ingress.


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## 96410

aultymer,
There is a problem, and if it breaks Fiat will fix it.
This will only become a real problem when the 3 year Fiat warranty runs out by then Fiat would have sorted it.


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## OldWomble

It seems to me that no matter what the evidence shows, Fiat are ignoring this major fault. If the UK Motorhome industry really does care about it's customers (and I for one are pretty sure they care more about thier profits) why don't they say to Fiat "sort this now or we will change our base vehicle". As Swift are so keen to be seen doing the right thing on this forum maybe they would like to start the ball rolling.....

Message to Swift and all other manufactures - You will find that both the Merc and the Iveco make excellent base vehicles as they are built to a higher standard and have the advatage of rear wheel drive!!!


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## aultymer

> This will only become a real problem when the 3 year Fiat warranty runs out by then Fiat would have sorted it.


So we can all go out and buy Fiat based vehicles in 3 years because subaru says they will have been fixed?

I only joined in this thread to answer a question regarding why people were blaming Swift and since Swift only offer Fiats the answer was clear.


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## Telbell

> What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?


Could it be because Swift on their website say:

"the company's policy has always been to produce innovative products that are well designed, constructed to the highest standards and provide outstanding value for money." ??



> As Swift are so keen to be seen doing the right thing on this forum maybe they would like to start the ball rolling.....


No chance-they've already made it clear on a similar thread that they're sticking with Fiat/Peugeot, though haven't made it clear exactly why.


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## 96410

[/quote]Could it be because Swift on their website say:

"the company's policy has always been to produce innovative products that are well designed, constructed to the highest standards and provide outstanding value for money.


> Which is what Swift have done, Swift did not design or bulild chassis or cab


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## Telbell

> What the hell has Swift got to do with Fiat's Gearbox problem, surely complaints should go to Fiat?


Could it be because Swift on their website say:

"the company's policy has always been to produce innovative products that are well designed, constructed to the highest standards and provide outstanding value for money." ??



> As Swift are so keen to be seen doing the right thing on this forum maybe they would like to start the ball rolling.....


No chance-they've already made it clear on a similar thread that they're sticking with Fiat/Peugeot, though haven't made it clear exactly why.


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## Telbell

So they don't have any responsibility for producing "The Motorhome"? (a product??)


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## 96410

Telbell,
They do take responsibility for the motorhome, But all Swift dealers that are not Fiat agents will not be allowed to touch the cab/engine side of the motorhome. So off to Fiat garage it goes.


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## 109481

Just a note to restate that clutches are not covered by warranty. If it burns out and needs replacing the typical cost is £800. If you don't believe me take a look at the Ducato warranty terms
A reconditioned gearbox will cost over £2000 to fit
Ford and Mercedes transmissions don't judder (do they?)
Happy wheels
Skimbo


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## 96410

I wondered if normal commercial vehicles were having gearbox trouble, and i found this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/may-07-Fiat-d...5728520QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL080811095a36311

take a look where the * is in the listing

So if Fiat are fitting gearboxes daily it is going to hit profits at some stage, and fleet buyers will stop buying them as days off the road can cost big money.


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## roclaire

*swift*

well designed and constucted to higest standards ....well i beg to differ ...how many complaints do they get on here about build issues and poor service ...
wait till they go to dusseldorf next week and the germans pick over there motors .....
the germans will not put up with there shoddy standards..and poor dealer service ????.......amasing how they have kept out of the furor over the gearbox issue....
they will keep selling there vans knowing full well there is potensial for gearbox to break .or cause a major accident ..
i know ours blew up when we were in the fast lane on the m1 ..nearly causing a major pile up..

but will they put a hold on sales untill someone decides to take action,
not likely....
its about time they prcice what they preach ..and look after there customers ..not share holders...


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## Telbell

"will not be allowed to touch the cab/engine side of the motorhome. So off to Fiat garage it goes."

So who's suggesting they should "touch" the engine?

There are those who believe they (and other converters) should be doing more in the interests of Swift customers and Motorhome customers in general.

And for a Swift group representative to say "well-mine doesn't judder", when Fiat are now accepting there are problems, beggars belief.

[/quote] but will they put a hold on sales untill someone decides to take action, 
not likely....


> No they won't. As I say, this applies to other converters as well. Since Swift are content to take plaudits from MHF members on here for "good service" they shouldn't complain when some members also raise tricky questions of them regarding theior stance on "judder" and continuing to use Fiat as base vehicle.


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## carolgavin

roclaire you are allowing your problems well documented to colour your views with regard to Swift. I do not see ANY other manufacturer British or otherwise posting on this or any other forum. Neither do Fiat/Peugeot with whom the problem lies. 

Swifts/Explorer/Autotrail/CI/Hymer to name but a few, hands are tied by the actions or non actions of the manufacturers involved and it is they that deserve your scorn and derision. Peter at swift has done exactly the same as he did with 'scuttlegate' has fed back our continuing complaints to the manufacturers. What else would you have him do. Stop building and go out of business??? As ultimately this is what will happen if they take the stance you are suggesting. Then there is no Swift warranty and you and others are very much on your own!!!

If the manufacturers are not talking to the converters with regard to a solution to this then why do you think one converter would be willing to go out on a limb and virtually hand his business to his competitors.

Finally I really do understand yours and others frustration with this issue, my van is still not repaired after over a year of scuttlegate. However it is with the dealer that my fight will ultimately conclude. I hope you get your van back soon. Perhaps you will feed back on the forum what the garage found out when yours is repaired as am sure an awful lot of people would be interested. Maybe you could start a new thread when you know what the causes were. Good luck!!


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## hilldweller

*Re: swift and fiat*



roclaire said:


> he cant send vehcles out of his factory with out quality issues ... so if they are lucky to sell any in germany


This is make or break for him I'd say. It's one thing genuinely helping UK buyers "OK just call in at the factory" but imagine saying that to a German. Imagine the cost of shipping a MH back from Germany for a rotten floor. Even worse, imagine employing a German repair team, how long before the tales of rotten floors were all over Germany.

I'll bet focus on QA has never been greater.

On the other hand the Germans are closer to Italy.

By the way, is you gearbox problem caused by the same lack of oil as the poor family in France right now ?


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## roclaire

*swift and fiat and germany*

at moment don't know as the fiat dealer already has one to do before they look at ours .they have told us they have had a quite a few with same problem...

will be interesting to see how they get on in germany and if standards inprove .???
or will it be one rule for germans .who wont stand for poor quality .and another for uk buyers ..who swift know they can usually placate ,and fob off ..or please pm ,us and we will sort your problems out .discreetly .??
all i can say is that there ,man in germany simon ,must have thick skin.or be a public relations genius ..
is peter personally going to be at dusseldorf....
i hope so .so he can answer questions personally to the media ..and members of the public...


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## roclaire

*swift and fiat gearbox*

hello carol ,im not letting anything colour my judgement ..my previous complaint with swift ,was delt with .but unfortunatelly i singed a confidensiality agreement .
the gear box has gone on a brand new van ,not supplied by a dealer ,if you know what i mean.
and yes .even with another new van i have had problems and ,yes they have sent an engineer to repaire yet again..so am i just unfortunate ,or is this a general rule of thumb..all swift motorhomes come of the production line ,with some kind of problem>>???
so my contract is actually with the manufacturer of said motorhome..
so when a gear box blews up on motorway and causes the potensial for a major accident .yes im cheesed off .
we have lost our major holiday of the year ..

so when i find out on here that the gear box issue has been known about by manufacturers for months,and they have not really done anything about warning there customers ,about it ,yes i am totally fed up ..yet again i put my trust in afore mentioned manufacturer ,and yet again ,through build and quality issues ,i have nomotorhome ..
hope fully i will speak to kath ,first thing on monday morning ,and hope fully resolve these issues again....
but i genuinelly beleive .that when peter says on here .we have products to compete with the german manufacturers....i have to laugh ...or cry


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## hilldweller

*Re: swift and fiat and germany*



roclaire said:


> at moment don't know as the fiat dealer already has one to do before they look at ours .they have told us they have had a quite a few with same problem...
> is peter personally going to be at dusseldorf....
> i hope so .so he can answer questions personally to the media ..and members of the public...


If just one dealer at random says "quite a few" this must be the biggest disaster of all time for Fiat.

And let's be fair to Swift, they have your problem a thousand times over or worse. You at least will get fixed one way or another, Swift will never recover their losses from Fiat.

If only you had a MH you could have gone and asked that question in person. Though with your track record they'd probably turn you back at the frontier. You'd have to change your name, pick something a bit German, I know, Herr A Hitler, that has a German ring to it.


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## roclaire

*swift and fiat*

so what swift put on here is what they want you to know ....
there is always swifts public answer on forums .and the then there is what really happens ..
so dont let swift tell you that everything is black and white .because there is a definate shade of grey ..in between........any comments peter ????


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## Rapide561

*Fiat*

Hello

I am hoping that my new motorhome when ordered and so on, will be based on the 3.0 MultiJet. I once said in another thread that I would happily drive a Swift motorhome to China and back. I will happily say the same about the 3.0 MultiJet, irrespective of whether a white van or a Hymer or whatever is stuck on the chassis.

As for reverse judder, I could reverse quite easily and on another thread I posted a pic of the incline - and it was on grass - that I reversed up without any kerfuffle at all.

The gearbox is a Fiat thing - nothing to do with Hymer, Swift, Dethleffs or even uncle Tob Cobleigh. I would very much like to know what percentage of gearboxes have failed though. I wonder if that percentage is any greater than issues with another chassis - such as offerings from Ford, Renault or whoever.

I considered my motorhome at under a year old and with 11,000 miles on the clock to have been thoroughly used. My friends have a Kontiki on a 3.0 MultiJet and they have about 17,000 on the clock. As far as I know, their Fiat - like mine - has marched on like a trooper.

To put things in perspective, I bought a brand new Ford Escort in December 1991 - and just 500 miles later, the thing was undriveable and had to be recovered from Blackpool on New Years Eve, ruining our night out. The clutch pedal went to the floor and that was that.

As a motorhomeless motorhomer, I feel quite impartial at present in respect of any chassis, convertor and so on.

Regards

Russell


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## roclaire

*swift and fiat*

dont worry hilldweller.i have ticket booked already ..
i used to be in the army .and was stationed in germany for 6 years .so language isnt a problem....
and yes me and my freinds will be having a good luck round .and asking all kind of questions

as for getting in im putting fake tan on and pretending im an illegal immigrant from iraq...
going to tell them .british goverment are really good to me since i arrive in there country.and i save enough money to go to dusseldorf .to by a motorhome ..but as long as it,s a german one .as i have heard british ones are not very good?????..


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## Carrington

I also have a 2008 Bessacarr E495 with a Fiat cab and have to reverse onto my drive up a steep incline.
The judder and smell from the clutch afterwards is quite scary. I've tried to call Fiat but couldn't even get through, following an article in Practical Motorhome issue just released.


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## roclaire

*swift and china and back ..*

ok lets lets see if peter will supply a new motorhome ,i think china is to far .
i have a villa in turkey and when we drive over it usually takes about 4-5 days .depending which way we go ..so a round trip of 10 days .over various terrain.....we could test it even further by driving down to border with iraq...the roads in turkey are not the best .....so would be a good test of fiat gearbox ..as there are some very big mountains in turkey.also you wouldnt get a better test of swift build quality ..
so how about it peter .and we can video diary it ..warts and all ....i anm happy to take up the challenge if you care to supply the motor ..if it makes it i wil put my hands up and say so ...but if not we could fly back and leave it for fiat uk to arrange repariation...
if some one want to try driving to china ..im game .. any takers ..


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## Telbell

> The gearbox is a Fiat thing - nothing to do with Hymer, Swift, Dethleffs or even uncle Tob Cobleigh


That's a surprising comment Russell.

Does that not equate to BAC or Airbus stating that the Boeing engine has nothing to do with them? I'm sure the CAA would have something to say if there were problems with Boeing engines and a Director of Airbus said "well I flew on one of our planes with a Boeing engine the other day and my flight was ok" :roll: That's what Peter said of his experience of driving a Swift. In effect "what's all the fuss about-I can reverse mine without a judder?"!

The choice of base vehicle, and some sort of response to a now admitted fault has everything to do with the converter.


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## hilldweller

*Re: swift and fiat*



roclaire said:


> dont worry hilldweller.i have ticket booked already ..
> i used to be in the army .and was stationed in germany for 6 years .so language isnt a problem....


Oh my god.

I N C O M I N G ! !


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## Rapide561

*This thread*



Telbell said:


> The gearbox is a Fiat thing - nothing to do with Hymer, Swift, Dethleffs or even uncle Tob Cobleigh
> 
> 
> 
> That's a surprising comment Russell.
> 
> Does that not equate to BAC or Airbus stating that the Boeing engine has nothing to do with them? I'm sure the CAA would have something to say if there were problems with Boeing engines and a Director of Airbus said "well I flew on one of our planes with a Boeing engine the other day and my flight was ok" :roll: That's what Peter said of his experience of driving a Swift. In effect "what's all the fuss about-I can reverse mine without a judder?"!
> 
> The choice of base vehicle, and some sort of response to a now admitted fault has everything to do with the converter.
Click to expand...

Well as this thread seems to have changed direction more than the weather, I will leave it to you to enjoy.

Russell


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## 96410

I think i will join you Russ.


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## Telbell

> Well as this thread seems to have changed direction more than the weather


Don't think so-I merely responded to your comment.


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