# france and spain travel



## melfay (Apr 6, 2014)

I am going to France and Spain in June can anyone suggest a nice scenic route down to Spain using aires to cut cost I have 6mtr motor home pulling a vauxhall matitz behind


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Where in Spain are you heading ?? Makes a difference as to the route suggestion..

Here is my route to Benidorm.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnr5ij7rv42hzrn/Camper route and stops.txt


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Don't want to open up this whole "A-framing" can of worms again, but just in case you aren't aware, I trust you're towing the car on a proper trailer, and not using an A-frame.

The towing of one vehicle with another (eg using an A-frame) is illegal on all public roads throughout the whole of Spain.

Get caught doing that down here and you'll be in for a very BIG fine (which as a foreigner you must pay there and then in full before the Guardia will allow you to continue), and an order to drive the two vehicles separately from then on.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

> The towing of one vehicle with another (eg using an A-frame) is illegal on all public roads throughout the whole of Spain.


The legal position is Spain is tenuous but in practical terms this is certainly the case. Don't even consider using an A frame there unless you have:
1) A deep pocket to pay the fines
and/or
2) An additional driver to drive the car

A trailered car is OK in Spain but can be a complete PITA when using aires in France. Are you accustomed to using aires?

Often there will be nowhere to park the trailer due to small bays and lack of secure parking nearby. If your outfit is short enough you might fit it all onto one bay and that's fine but many aires will be a problem, especially in June when they're starting to get really busy. It may not be strictly prohibited to park a trailer in an aire but if you take up space that is intended for motorhomes you'll get a hard time from the average french motorhomer who thinks you're denying him an overnight stopping place. It can turn quite nasty when several of them are chasing spaces late in the evening.

My advice would be to consider using municipals. Most will be open in June and they can provide cheap overnight stops with space to park your trailer securely.


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## melfay (Apr 6, 2014)

regarding a frame towing I have a letter from the a frame maker stating as it is braked and legal in the home of origin (uk) then it is legal in member states of the E U hope this is correct


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Sorry, but the legal position in Spain isn't tenuous at all. 
The towing of one road vehicle by another road vehicle is and always has been against the the law on any public roads here.
Such towing is specifically banned. 

Owning a tow rope isn't illegal. Towing one car with another via tow rope is illegal.

Owning a draw-bar isn't illegal. But using it to tow one road vehicle with another is illegal.

Owning an A-frame isn't illegal. But using it to tow a a car behind another vehicle is and always has been clearly and specifically illegal in Spanish road traffic law.

That's why all vehicle insurance polices here have always come with breakdown/recovery low loader truck cover built in.


The only thing that's changed is that in the past couple of years the Guardia Trafico here are now more and more enthusiastic about enforcing that law on foreign vehicles as they have always been with respect to Spanish plated vehicles.

The Spanish Transport Minister has actually issued the definitive Motorhome law guidance document ("08V74") to all Guardia/Police departments, in which he actually reminded them that towing a car behind a motorhome using an A-frame is illegal anywhere in Spain because of the existing and long standing "can't tow a road vehicle with a road vehicle on a public road" law.


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## melfay (Apr 6, 2014)

does towing with an a frame the same as spain ?


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

> regarding a frame towing I have a letter from the a frame maker stating as it is braked and legal in the home of origin (uk) then it is legal in member states of the E U hope this is correct


Believe them if you like but whatever they say won't hold water at the Spanish roadside with a traffic cop.

You can't do it I'm afraid - end of story.


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## melfay (Apr 6, 2014)

thanks all you guys this could have saved me a lot of money I wonder is france under the same ligislation


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

melfay said:


> thanks all you guys this could have saved me a lot of money I wonder is france under the same ligislation


Legislation regarding the use of A frames is ill defined in most of europe, look for the miriad of threads and opinions in the "Motorhome Towing" section of this site.

AFAIK the current situation in France is that A frames are tolerated.


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## readyforoff (Dec 28, 2013)

melfay said:


> thanks all you guys this could have saved me a lot of money I wonder is france under the same ligislation


You'll be fine in France...spend your money there if the Spaniards don't want it..


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## melfay (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks thats just what I will do


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

melfay said:


> regarding a frame towing I have a letter from the a frame maker stating as it is braked and legal in the home of origin (uk) then it is legal in member states of the E U hope this is correct


Melfay - the frame maker can write what he likes, in order to get you to part with your money for his product.
That piece of paper is frankly utterly worthless. In fact it's worse than that: it is IMHO a deception, as it's making a claim that is definitely untrue.

A-frame use is NOT definitely legal in the UK. 
But it is not yet illegal either.
It is a grey point of road traffic law in the UK, as such devices were not invented when the relevant construction and use regulations were....umm...framed.
To date, no-one has brought a test case in the UK to see whether a Judge could be actually convinced that a car somehow magically stops being a car at all and becomes instead a "trailer" because you bolted a metal bracket onto the front of it.

The ONLY reference to EU conformity that I have ever seen from an A Frame maker was in French, but actually to do with only the conformity of the tow-hitch design, ie that it will fit the EU standard towball.

In France towing one vehicle with another is definitely illegal, but all the info I've seen on the subject indicates that almost all French Police either aren't sufficiently up on the detailed technicalities of their law, or simply turn a blind eye.
From what others have you'll be very unlucky to get pulled/fined and told to decouple in France.

But in Spain and Portugal too, it has always been specifically illegal to tow one vehicle with another. 
No doubts, no wriggle room, no varying interpretations. Everyone in Spain (every Spanish person that is) knows this law, and doesn't carry a tow rope; they call out their breakdown recovery "grua" lorry if in trouble. He puts them on the back of the lorry and takes them to wherever.

Nowadays her ein Spain, there are more and more reports of foreigners towing cars via A-frames behind their motorhomes being pulled and heavily fined and made to decouple before they can continue. Bit of a bugger if only one of you can drive. And you haven't got the 600 euros there and then for the fine.

Car towed on a proper trailer? No problem at all, anywhere in the UK or mainland Europe.


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