# 3.0 or 2.3 litre engine with Fiat maxi chassis?



## MrGaz

Just a quick census of experiences please 
I am looking at the Swift Voyager 680FB which is on a Fiat Maxi chassis 
Do I need the 3.0 litre engine for this van or is the 2.3 litre suffice? 
I would like to occasionally tow a trailer weighting about 900 kg


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## Mike48

Allegedly all Fiat 2.3 models have the judder issue resolved at production line stage. As I understand it the 3 litre still suffers from judder but Fiat state there is no problem. The Comfortmatic gearbox version on the 3 litre engine is reputedly fine. I would not buy a 3 litre manual gearbox unless or until Fiat acknowledge the existence of the problem and produce a fix.


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## steco1958

Not ALL 3.0 l engines suffer with judder !!

I dont wish to cause an argument but you can't generalize with this issue, as all that will happen is Fiat will take no notice of the people that do have a problem.

Steve


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## dovtrams

Hi

We have a voyager 680FB with the 2.3 engine and it is great, although my garage owning friend wants me to get it chipped! It also has cruise control which I would not do without.

It is a very comfortable and roomy mh.

dave and sheena


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## Mike48

steco1958 said:


> Not ALL 3.0 l engines suffer with judder !!
> 
> I dont wish to cause an argument but you can't generalize with this issue, as all that will happen is Fiat will take no notice of the people that do have a problem.
> 
> Steve


Is that right? I've only experienced one and that was unbelievably bad. I challenged the Fiat representative at the NEC and he claimed never to have heard of the problem even though there are many members on various motorhome forums that have complained. Evidence of early clutch failure is now beginning to emerge.

As the original poster is asking for advice I thought he should be aware of the problem so that he can do some further research and make an informed decision.

If all 2.3 litre owners had kept quiet do you honestly believe Fiat would have come forward with a fix? I don't think so.


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## satis

Hi There  Ive got the New 3 litre engine in my Autotrail,Been to spain and morocco twice,reversed up hills and slopes,Not had any judder at all,The 3 litre pulls far better than the 2.3 and the fuel consumption isnt that much more than my fathers 2.3 Autotrail,Hope this post helps,kind regards Satis


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## sweetie

gelathae said:


> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not ALL 3.0 l engines suffer with judder !!
> 
> I dont wish to cause an argument but you can't generalize with this issue, as all that will happen is Fiat will take no notice of the people that do have a problem.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Is that right? I've only experienced one and that was unbelievably bad. I challenged the Fiat representative at the NEC and he claimed never to have heard of the problem even though there are many members on various motorhome forums that have complained. Evidence of early clutch failure is now beginning to emerge.
> 
> As the original poster is asking for advice I thought he should be aware of the problem so that he can do some further research and make an informed decision.
> 
> If all 2.3 litre owners had kept quiet do you honestly believe Fiat would have come forward with a fix? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

We have the 3ltr covered nearly 12000 miles 50% of that towing a trailer the engine is far better than previous 2.8 about 24.5 mpg towing. Yes there obviously are some that judder but ours I can reverse uphill with trailer and do not suffer from judder.

Steve


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## javea

I have the 3.0 litre engine in my Hymer, tow a Smart car and never have any problems with mountains in Spain, flies up hills in 6th that I would have had to change down a couple of gears in my previous 2.8 JTD. Personally would go 3.0 every time.


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## MikeCo

We have a chipped 2.3 on a Burstner weighing 4 Ton and there is loads of power. Even before it was chipped it was okay.
Our fuel cunsumption is just under 26mpg but I believe that this would be better with the 3 Litre engine.

Mike


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## weldted

*2.3 or 3 litre*

I have a Bessacar E765P 2008 3 litre. Judder is really bad in reverse, but this has been ingnored by Fiat. First clutch failed at 1478 miles. The second clutch failed at 26,000 miles, but despite being 60 years old, worked most of my life in the service and repair of vehicles, owned many motor homes without problems, but according to Fiat I am an abusive driver and its my fault!! So now I have just paid £1758 to have my van repaired ( I did have a break from the repair industry and worked as an ADI driving instructor) other than that it is a great van I opted for the 3 litre as we travel a lot and I do not believe in anything having to work hard. Had the same model van on the 2003 2.8jtd and it drove really well


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## erneboy

Glad to hear some 3 litre vans are ok, but I, like weldted, have a bad judder and clutch failure. You could buy yourself a lot of bother, Alan.


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## Jezport

I spoke to a member at the northern xmas meet and he got rid of his X250 because the battery went flat after a week due to the canbus system draining it. He said Fiat told him it was normal. I dont know if they have sorted that problem yet.


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## hero

Hi we have a 2010 685fb voyager 2.3 no judder tows our corsa on a-frame and pulls very well,cheers Matt


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## hero

Hi we have a 2010 685fb voyager 2.3 no judder tows our corsa on a-frame and pulls very well,cheers Matt


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## Rainbow-Chasers

For power/weight/economy ratios, go for the 3.0. For comfort and peace of mind, go for an auto - even if you are not used to them, they are great in motorhomes, as all motorhomers will tell you , you end up going up and down the gears on inclines!

Also, for resale purposes later - it will sell better/hold it's value better, as there will not be crowds of people shouting 'ohh reverse judder - don't touch that!' Sounds a daft thing to think about, but you are putting down a vast amount of your hard earned!


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## Rapide561

*Fiat*

Hi

I would go for the engine upgrade to 3.0 litres, more so as youm ight be towing. It is easy to remove power by easing up on the pedal!

I had a similar choice when I bought my first van. It was a 2.0 Peugeot as standard, with 2.2 upgrade. I had the 2.2 and it did cost a fair bit more. It was my first van and so I had nothing to compare to. When I sold the van however, the buyer test drove it and I remember him clearly saying it was a lot better than the 2.0.

Russell


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## tviall

As you can see from the little picture on the left I have a AT Cheiftain with max weight of 5 tonne. I went for the 3 ltr and so far completed 6,000 miles without any mechanical problems. 

This year, sorry last year now, it went to Lake Garda with no problems. It was a complete joy to drive, even effortless once the cruise control has been set. My friends without cruise were quite glad to arrive after a long drive but I was still quite relaxed and just let the power of the 3ltr do the work.

Fuel economy is around 22mpg (depending on traffic/wind etc) but is improving as the engine loosens up a bit. This doesn't seem to be that much different from my Father's A class Rapido with a 2.3ltr engine once I take into account that his is a 3.5 tonne and mine is a 5 tonne tag axle van.

There is talk of chipping vans here but I think Fiat will take a dim view of these. I think there are OK for a van that is outside of warranty but personally I wouldn't mess with a new van.

I'll mention judder briefly to provide a fuller picture. I will admit to there being a small amount of vibration but I'm not sure at what point this vibration can be regarded as judder. Had I not read the stories on this site I would not have noticed anything. As I sit here now I do not regard myself as having any clutch or judder problems.

What would I do in your situation? Well, go for the 3 ltr. As Russell says, if you don't need the power, ie you're travelling light or without the trailer, lift the right foot. But fully laden or with the trailer you'll be glad of the extra power.

Tony


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## wp1234

MrGaz said:


> Just a quick census of experiences please
> I am looking at the Swift Voyager 680FB which is on a Fiat Maxi chassis
> Do I need the 3.0 litre engine for this van or is the 2.3 litre suffice?
> I would like to occasionally tow a trailer weighting about 900 kg


I've had my Autotrail Cheyenne 3.0ltr for a few months now and have carried out the reverse up a hill test with no discernable judder .
Plenty of poke and very very smooth on a long run with the cruise control activated.
Previous owner upgraded to the 3.0ltr in order to tow a trailer plus Smart car .
Hope that helps


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## cabby

Ours also has the 3.0L we have now done 12k miles, no real judder from ours in reverse, lovely to drive quiet and smooth 24/26mpg.Been down through France and Spain.
You could look for the Peugeot badged van instead of Fiat.

cabby


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## Zebedee

cabby said:


> You could look for the Peugeot badged van instead of Fiat.
> cabby


There's virtually no difference between them . . . until you find that you have a judder problem.

We did. 8O

We have a Peugeot. :wink:

No more problem - they were brilliant. 

Dave


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## Sideways86

Hi Guys

We have an 09 Swift Voyager 685FB 2.3 and it does what it says on the tin! It is a much nicer drive than the earlier 2.8 and it goes like a dream fully loaded.

The judder minimal and now fully rectified by Fiat via Camper UK in Lincoln, great bunch at Camper UK 10/10

Enjoy the freedom


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## CliveMott

Always go for the biggest engine if you can afford it. It makes for more relaxed driving.

C.


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## thesockpuppet

*Fiat 3.0 litre on Dethleffs Advantage 7871-2*

Hi All,

Just traded in our smaller Dethleffs A69 (Sunlight) on a Transit 140 bhp
for the larger tag axle Advantage 7871 on a 3 litre 160 Fiat. Ive test driven it and like most posts explain it drives like a dream. The Ford is a belting engine with loads of torque if not a bit industrial, all this talk of judder......can it be rectified and how much is it likely to cost me as the vehicle I've bought is out of manufacturers warranty????

Thanks,

Ian.


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## erneboy

There is no Fiat fix for 3 litre judder, they say it does not exist. 

Don't wory too much about it, try reversing up an hill and if it does not judder you are fine. or at least as fine as a 3 litre owner can hope to be.

Just to be clear ,several of the so called automatic 3 litre gearboxes and clutches have now failed so the Comfortmatic is not trouble free either, Alan.


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## thesockpuppet

Thanks for that.... I'll soon find out when we pick it up a week on Saturday!!!

Cheers,

Ian.


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## wobby

For those who have a 3ltr Fiat without the judder, thats great. 
However there are a lot of us who definitely have a problem. It can be very costly as some members have posted and thats why I traded and bought a Merc based motorhome. Thats my advise, that is until Fiat, if they haven't already, get it sorted. One thing I would say though is the 3ltr engine is very smooth and powerful, just let down by the clutch problems.

Wobby


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## thesockpuppet

As I have yet to collect the vehicle it's possible that I'm getting worked up about nothing. How much does the judder (when present) affect the usability of the van??? It's difficult because almost everything that we looked at with 6 belted seats is on a Fiat 160 3.0 litre. It drove forwards like a dream and has a meager 16k miles on the clock..... Does remapping the engine to deliver more power come recommended or is that just putting more through the clutch???? The van is quiet and if anything more refined that the impeccable transit 140 duratec (2010 model). I'm really looking forward to getting out in it but realistically will only do 4k miles per year to Italy or Spain. Surely it cant be that bad going backwards!!!!!

Ian.


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## chubs

I have a 620fb with the 2.3 litre engine only covered 1000 miles but pulls very well very pleased with the whole package


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## blondy

I have a 4 ton M/H powered by 3L fiat, done 24200 absolute trouble free miles in under4 years. Judders a bit in reverse but i seem to have got the hang of it, mostly foot off acc, clutch out, where possible.
this motor is much better than my pevious 316 merc powered M/H,
much more tourqe and smoother.
But it is always a personal choice, dont be put off by people who have not owned either.
Just back from 3300 mile trip, france spain portugal andora, Brill.


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## thesockpuppet

Chubs and Blondy, you're like a breath of fresh air!!!!! All I seem to have read is doom stories up to now. Thanks a lot for your input.

Cheers,

Ian.


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## gloworm

the question you ask is ususally a waste of time, people drifty away from what you asked, and others will tell you the vehicle they own is best, which is why they chose it, I have a 2.3. my friend has the 3.0 ltr, although niether of us tow anything the performance & fuel consumption hardly differs. ive had the modifications to mine but it still judders in reverse.


Ezza :wink:


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## VILLAMAN

I HAVE OWNED SINCE LAST AUGUST 2 AUT-TRAIL APACHE 700, THE FIRST WAS ON A 2.3, GREAT ON THE FLAT ROADS BUT UP HILLS SLOWED RIGHT DOWN, SO I SOLD IT AND NOW HAVE A NEW 3.0 AUTOMATIC, 'WOW' AM I PLEASED I DID IT, GOSE LIKE A ROCKET ON THE FLAT UP HILLS I EVEN OVER TAKE CARS, NO JUDDER AT ALL ON BOTH OF THEM, THE 3.0 IS DOING AN EXTRA COUPLE OF MILES PER GALLON, SO THERE IS NOT MANY PEOPLE LIKE ME TO GIVE SOUND ADVICE ON BOTH


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## lifestyle

I am on my second x250.The 1st was a 2007 2.3 ,no probs approx 7000 miles ,lovely to drive.My 2nd is a 2009 2.3 just coming up to 9500 miles .I can honestly say the vehicle drives smoothly and with no problems.
I Guess i`m just lucky
   

Les


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