# How to open a CL?



## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

I was thinkning of opening a CL with the caravan club, 5 vans only. I have enough land i just want advice on where to start, i am not in it for the money (as i am sure there is not that much to be made) i just want to make use of the land we own outside the house so it makes sense to open something that is to do with a hobby we enjoy.

I have no experince of running a camp site. But the main points good or bad to start me off would be brilliant.

About the land we want to use:

On a septic tank (will probably need a new one to cope)

Water is on a meter so that will be costly if the tap is left on etc. I will need to run a mains to the area for the site.

Electric will need to be cabled as none exisits in that field

Land is a bit boggy in the heavy rain so hardstandings would be a good idea



Any advice please


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Rob
Now this may initially sound daft but have you thought about a make a cl meet? Have the relevant members needed to do the tasks stay on your field. This way you could get up and running fairly cheaply.

Steve


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

Very good idea  i just need the advice on how to go about it all now. Legal and council permits etc. 

I like the idea of a meet though


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## ciderdaze (Mar 28, 2006)

I have just started mine, will be ready for easter 08 dont think its a money earner just nice to have a place i can return to if i decide to go off in the van.speak to caravan camping club very helpfull,I had to put a septic tank in .


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## Bernies (Mar 22, 2007)

Hi there,

perhaps this is not quite what you were expecting to hear but my brother used to have a CL on his land, but now he uses the space as caravan/motorhome/boat storage. 
He says it's much less work (no water or electricty and they don't use the septic tank either) for a lot more cash! Apparently good, secure storage can be hard to find.

I did try to persuade him to re-establish the CL but with no luck  

Carol
Bernie's OH


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Why not consult those that would give you the license. The Caravan Club for a CL. I think it depends on what is around you also. If there are other CLs they may not want another in that area??? You can always try the Motorhome Club or the Caravan and Camping Club too.

Sounds as though you have a fair investment to make but only you can judge whether it is worth it.

peedee


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Try a CL for the love of it by all means, but first establish that you could NOT get planning permission for storage. I know a couple of people for whom such simple enterprises are their lucrative pension, not having paid into one when they could.

Dave


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

The CC or CCC will take you through things, and I presume you wouldn't need full planning permission because it's a CL / CS?


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

bognormike said:


> The CC or CCC will take you through things, and I presume you wouldn't need full planning permission because it's a CL / CS?


Does any one know what sort of planning is required for a CL, i emailed the CC but i have not had anything back yet.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

You don't need planning permission for a CL or CS. See "Para 5":
http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/issues/caravan/index.htm

You obviously do for permanent storage or a site with more vans. But note just a small field large enough for say 50 vans can net you £20k a year for doing little!

Dave


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

Update on this i am being inspected this Friday by the CC i am thinking it will probably be rejected due to one being only a few miles away but its not the end of the world


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

It's interesting to hear that. Hope you get on OK.

Sometimes, they have several in a small area - it depends on what they think the takeup might be.

Gerald


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

To be honest i was just expecting a rejection letter so this is a bit of a shock, not that it means anything but at least they will get to see the view i know campers will love as much as i do.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

Here is a picture of above mentioned view


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*New CL*

Hi

Good luck with all of this. Put me down as a booking!

Russell


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

That would be the view out of your MH window Russ so fingers crossed


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

That looks beautiful! If you do get up and running can I book a pitch now?
Will supply a bottle of bubbly for the launching.
BTW electrical hook ups are optional, you might want to delay installation until you know what sort of customer usage you will be getting.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

roboughton said:


> Update on this i am being inspected this Friday by the CC i am thinking it will probably be rejected due to one being only a few miles away but its not the end of the world


If the CC don't, maybe the CCC will! CCC seem to be pushing CS's recently.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

TBH i am an ex spark and alot of my mates are sparks so getting the power in is not a problem (only a cost problem ) can borrow a digger etc. 

It may well be that no EHU's will be in place to start but i do aim to have wireless broadband up and running 

Access to the field is now sorted with a gravel drive way. so i can get my caravan in and out no probs now even in the rain  

thats if they give it the all clear.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

bognormike said:


> roboughton said:
> 
> 
> > Update on this i am being inspected this Friday by the CC i am thinking it will probably be rejected due to one being only a few miles away but its not the end of the world
> ...


i will probably try them after the CC if no luck. Im not in it for the money so its no skin if we dont get it.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

roboughton said:


> Update on this i am being inspected this Friday by the CC i am thinking it will probably be rejected due to one being only a few miles away but its not the end of the world


Rob

If you are rejected for that reason then try the C&CC to become a CS (Certificated Site).
If the C&CC were to say yes maybe the CC would need to think again if you still preferred to be a CL.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*CL*

Hi

Well fingers crossed for you. If they were to reject you - and I hope they don't - but could you look at being an independant?

Re the electrics - I do not know the rules for the UK, but whilst you can do the work yourself, would a man in a shirt and tie have to come and test it all and sign it as safe etc?

Russell


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

like i said lots of my mates are sparks so they do it day in day out. They are all approved of course  NIC EIC they also have there inspection and testing certs so alls good on that front. 

I am more bothered about the septic tank issue as i know naff all about them and how the chemicals from camping loos will affect them.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

roboughton said:


> I am more bothered about the septic tank issue as i know naff all about them and how the chemicals from camping loos will affect them.


You'll have to be SOG systems only.


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

*Re: CL*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> "_Well fingers crossed for you. If they were to reject you - and I hope they don't - but could you look at being an independant? _"
> 
> ...


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

autostratus said:


> roboughton said:
> 
> 
> > I am more bothered about the septic tank issue as i know naff all about them and how the chemicals from camping loos will affect them.
> ...


Is that official? I do know that i would need to have it emptied more often and the septic tank water treatment plants i have been looking at are used in many campsites so i am lead to believe. Is this not true?


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

Make sure you know the difference between a septic tank and a cesspit. A septic tank relies on bacterial action to break down the gunge and pure water escapes via soakaways into the surrounding land. The remaining sludge needs pumping out occasionally (but not that often). The formldehyde in the blue toilet additives kills the bacteria and that means you just end up with a tankfull of poo - and if THAT escapes into the nearby ground you'll be in trouble.

A cesspit is just that - a pit or tank. You empty the contents of the cassettes into a large holding tank and a tanker comes and empties the tank when it is full. Because we don't have mains drainage on our site we have a couple of Klargesters ( a sort of mechanised septic tank that uses revolving drums covered in bacteria to speed the process) for the outlet for the loos and a CDP (Chemical Disposal Point or "cesspit" in less glamorous language) for the emptying of Porta-Pottis which, in the height of the season, needs emptying once a week .

One cassette containing Aqua Kem emptied into a septic tank will result in a foul-smelling, non-functioning tank of nastiness. I would suggest that you either instal a CDP, empty loos into the mains or watch your campers like a hawk. Our CDP is in its own separate, well signposted, beautifully clean and easy to use building next to the toilets and we usually get at least one idiot every year who decides to empty his cassette down the toilet instead. 

Takes us ages to get the Klargesters working again by flushing them with clean water to dilute the formaldehyde and limit the damage. That remedy probably won't work on a septic tank.

See- you start off talking about the view and end up talking about poo. Welcome to the wonderful world of campsite management!

Good luck with the CL. Add my name to the "want to visit" list


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

andyangyh said:


> Make sure you know the difference between a septic tank and a cesspit. A septic tank relies on bacterial action to break down the gunge and pure water escapes via soakaways into the surrounding land. The remaining sludge needs pumping out occasionally (but not that often). The formldehyde in the blue toilet additives kills the bacteria and that means you just end up with a tankfull of poo - and if THAT escapes into the nearby ground you'll be in trouble.
> 
> A cesspit is just that - a pit or tank. You empty the contents of the cassettes into a large holding tank and a tanker comes and empties the tank when it is full. Because we don't have mains drainage on our site we have a couple of Klargesters ( a sort of mechanised septic tank that uses revolving drums covered in bacteria to speed the process) for the outlet for the loos and a CDP (Chemical Disposal Point or "cesspit" in less glamorous language) for the emptying of Porta-Pottis which, in the height of the season, needs emptying once a week .
> 
> ...


How big is your site?

I have no mains drains here its up in the hills.

So a septic tank wont work here and a water treatemnt one wont either so what am i left with? a big tank of C£&9 me needs to rethink this then as i am lead to belive its not cheap to have the tanks emptied.

I have lived here 2 years and the septic works just fine there is only 2 of us so its not neede pumping yet


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

Sorry If I've put a bit of a dampener on it but all is not lost.

Our site has 150 pitches so a bit bigger than you are looking at starting! 

As you've found, a septic tank works brilliantly when all you put down it is organic stuff. It's when the formaldehyde hits the tank that it all goes to a pile of poo (literally!) A septic tank will still work fine for porta potti emptying if all your campers use Aqua Kem Green or have SOG units. So...the answer might well lie in policing your campers to ensure no-one empties the dreaded Blue down there. Ninety nine point nine percent of campers are lovely, sensible people who will do their best to help out with things like this. Eventually the other point one percent will turn up and cock it all up. We have tried selling the Aqua Kem Green in our little shop on-site but the Blue outsells it about 20 to 1 so the chances are that most people will be carrying the "nasty" one when they turn up.

Whisper it (and I'm sure the CC won't be too impressed with this as a solution) but for our rally field we dig a big pit well away from any water courses and everything gets emptied into that. Happens a lot at "green field" Temporary Holiday Sites run by the CCC. Fine for occasional use but not sure how you would stand environmentally (or legally) using it as a long term solution.

Yes - emptying the CDP's is a fairly hefty cost on the business. 150 pitches fill two large tanks every week in the height of the season. That's one tanker-full ever 7 days. Mind you, 5 pitches will take a long time to fill a big tank. If you go this route get the biggest tank you can.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

not got a lot of land for that big pit. I am now very unsure how to do this.

Would you recomend a septic tank?

or a holding tank? in your experience the septic does not work. oh Bu&&£*


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi
A couple of comments:

genuine AquaKem Blue from Thetford hasn't contained formaldehyde for a few years that's not to say it's any better for septic tanks :? 
AFAIK other brands such as Elsan double Blue and some of the cheaper ones still do. 

Chatting to a couple of CS owners this year, one who had recently opened near Shoreham had found the Camping and Caravanning Club to be very helpful especially with getting his septic(?) tank installed when the local council were being awkward.

Apparently once you put in hookups the annual insurance and inspection costs can change the economics greatly.

Also from our experience the more basic (generally older) CL's without electrics don't get the level of custom unless the location is a major selling point, especially at the either end of the season

Good luck with your plans anyway  

Steve


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

Calm down!!! All is not lost. When I say "big pit" I don't mean something big enough to swallow the Milennium Dome. We dig one about 6 feet deep, 4 feet across and 8 feet long. One man, one JCB, one hour. We put beams over it at 3 foot intervals then we put boards over the top (big, strong ones so no-one is going to fall in). There is a trapdoor at one end of the boards.

That does for up to 40 units at one time and gradually everthing sinks into the ground (hence the "not near a watercourse" instruction). We do have a lot of land in the rally field so we move the site of the pit every so often using the spoil from the pit to fill in afterwards.

Not sure how much a large holding tank costs (not wildly expensive compared to the cost involved in emptying a small one lots of times) but if ours fills in a week with 150 pitches at the peak yours (with a maximum occupancy of 5 units) will need emptying every 30 weeks. That's less than twice a year. You won't be full every night (we are now down to emptying every 2 weeks) so it could last more than 9 months. Now that looks better doesn't it?

Now, go and have a beer, look out the window and say, "One day there will be 5 motorhomes buggering up my view!"

If in doubt, ask for help from either the CC or the CCC. I know the CCC has a leaflet all about setting up a certificated site and I am sure the CC does the same thing.


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

_"genuine AquaKem Blue from Thetford hasn't contained formaldehyde for a few years"_

Didn't know that - we live and learn

_"that's not to say it's any better for septic tanks"_

Too right it isn't. One cassette full down a toilet last year and it took us a day of flushing to get the Klargesters working properly again.

I understand that blue is outlawed now in Germany. And what do I use in my loo? Er.......er.........blue (sorry!)


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

andyangyh said:


> Calm down!!! All is not lost. When I say "big pit" I don't mean something big enough to swallow the Milennium Dome. We dig one about 6 feet deep, 4 feet across and 8 feet long. One man, one JCB, one hour. We put beams over it at 3 foot intervals then we put boards over the top (big, strong ones so no-one is going to fall in). There is a trapdoor at one end of the boards.
> 
> That does for up to 40 units at one time and gradually everthing sinks into the ground (hence the "not near a watercourse" instruction). We do have a lot of land in the rally field so we move the site of the pit every so often using the spoil from the pit to fill in afterwards.
> 
> ...


The guy is coming on Friday so i will ask him all about it then. would be a shame not to use the field for such sill thing as waste disposal.


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## passionwagon (Nov 13, 2005)

roboughton said:


> I was thinkning of opening a CL with the caravan club, 5 vans only. I have enough land i just want advice on where to start, i am not in it for the money (as i am sure there is not that much to be made) i just want to make use of the land we own outside the house so it makes sense to open something that is to do with a hobby we enjoy.
> 
> I have no experince of running a camp site. But the main points good or bad to start me off would be brilliant.
> 
> ...


 8O Only the CC CCC and Motorcaravan Club are authorised to grant you an upto 5 pitch site licence. If you choose to do it yourself then the local aithority will want a full planning application. Look at your local council website and see what documentation needs to be provided for a simple one house build. However what ever you do you will need public liability insurance, risk assessment , certified water and electrical installations. The site will be have to pay a business rate. i would use one of the clubs as the local council cannot object if they give the ok. Yes there will be someone adding to the web saying just do it and ignore the jobs worths- not a good idea as someone in your area will advise the council and then the chances of retrospective planning is practically nil! :wink:


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

passionwagon said:


> roboughton said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinkning of opening a CL with the caravan club, 5 vans only. I have enough land i just want advice on where to start, i am not in it for the money (as i am sure there is not that much to be made) i just want to make use of the land we own outside the house so it makes sense to open something that is to do with a hobby we enjoy.
> ...


As i said it will be a CL so via a club, i would not open anything without planning and as its a CL i wont need that if the CC approve.

aside for all that anyone know what the public liability insurance is likely to cost approx?

Also what are the prices of business rates and how would i estimate what i would need to pay?


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Andyangyh said.
_understand that blue is outlawed now in Germany. And what do I use in my loo? Er.......er.........blue (sorry_!)

We went to the Dusseldorfe Show end of August where hundreds of vans queued up over the week to empty toilets, didn't see any signs about using blue(or on any other sites we used ), I am sure they weren't all sogs.
Cheers Sid


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## passionwagon (Nov 13, 2005)

roboughton said:


> passionwagon said:
> 
> 
> > roboughton said:
> ...


 8O For public liability insurance the premia will depend on a number of factors- best to ask a broker (try Hiscox website) . Remember you only get what you pay for! Business rate is determined by the Revenue and Customs again try their website. Local council is no longer involved in this area but the council tax officer may well give you an idea. :wink:


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

We're coming too! Good luck, it should be interesting to get their lowdown.Let us know how you get on!


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## Sundial (May 11, 2005)

*cl site*

I am sure there a lot of us who now use BIOMAGIC which I believe is OK in a septic tank as it works biologically. Perhaps on your literature you can insist everyone uses it !!

We will book a visit when you are up and running - what a view...

Sundial


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

News is the guy from the CC cant make it today so it will be re-arranged for some time mon-wed next week.  Should give me a bit more time to make my pad for my caravan and make it a bit more presentable as i have lots of building work going on at home right now, the place looks a mess.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

guy came today. got to wait 3 weeks now for locals to have their say (a sort of planning permission thing) then its down to the CC to decide.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks for keeping us informed. It seems to happen so slowly, doesn't it?

The CC must be thinking it is at least a possibility, or they wouldn't bother to put in the planning application (or whatever it is they do).

Gerald


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## annetony (May 1, 2005)

Good luck its a brilliant idea. we use the elsan green and much prefer it to the blue, pity its only done in the small size, you can add our name to you list

best wishes

Anne

Lovely view by the way


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*New CL*

Hi

Fingers crossed - book me in for 28 days as soon as you are open.

Russell


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks guys, a few things though the guy from the CC said a septic tank is the best way to go where i am so thats a defo install but he said to use a soak away for the gray water does any one know much about them?


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## Jiggles (Apr 17, 2007)

We've all got our fingers crossed for you.


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