# Sterling B2B installation - causing ammeter problem



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Can anyone with good electrical system knowledge please help with this interface problem? It is probably down to one of you Professional electrical guys.

I would be most grateful for help as I am now resident in Poland and so language is a problem and I doubt whether anyone here has experience of Sterling B2B.

Sterling say they do not know the Elektroblok set-up so carnot advise.

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Sterling Bartery-to-Battery installation – Ammeter problem

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Vehicle: N+B Arto 69GL (2003)

Existing charging system: Schaudt Elektroblok EBL 4-106 linked to a Schaudt Instrument Panel IT 104 N.

Additional charging installation: Sterling B2B 12v 50amp

The additional installation was carried out as per Sterling instructions, with the exception that the Alternator temperature sensor was omitted, since Sterling advised that it was not essential.

After installation the Sterling system worked, according to the voltmeter readings for both starter and leisure batteries.

The only problem encountered was the ammeter reading for the leisure batteries on the Instrument Panel. Initially it showed 15-20amp charge, but dropped back, as would be expected with leisure batteries in their nearly Fully-charged state.

However, after 1-2 mins the ammeter was showing a 15amp discharge. The 12v systems were isolated but the discharge remained, but there was no volltage drop that one might expect with such a high rate of discharge.

With the engine shut down, and therefore the Sterling system inoperative, the ammeter reading returned to normal.

The indications suggest that both the Elektroblok and Sterling systems are working normally, but that somehow there is a spurious reading on the ammeter.

Firstly, is the ammeter reading spurious?

Secondly, since I really want the Sterling but also do not want to run without a correct ammeter reading is there a way to resolve this apparent interface problem?

I await in hope for a kind and knowledgeable reply.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The B2B confuses the Electroblok, there is a cpmpatability issue. However all it means is that you get some confusing readings. The problem goes away when you stop the engine. I don't worry about it and as far as I know no one has found a remedy, although a few have speculated on how to cure it, Alan.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

It is simply that the Elektroblock cheap way of doing things means it only measures the current going through itself, NOT through the battery. Add anything to your 12V electrical system that either charges or discharges the leisure batteries but which is NOT connected through the Electrblock and the latter simply feigns ignorance! 

EB should have used a battery shunt, like all decent battery monitors.

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I have spoken to schaudt about the problem and they say the EBL can't deal with the ampage from the B2B so you just have to put up with the confusing messages when the engine is running. It's not a problem for me now I know what causes it, Alan.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave Burleigh thanks for explanation re lack of shunt in Elektoblok system.

I was going to PM you but maybe someone else, including Erneboy would like to know your thoughts.

2 x Qs

1. Is it possible to retrofit the shunt and would that solve the problem or cause even more 'side-effect' problems? It would be good to know what amps the B2B is putting in.

2 If, as Erneboy suggests, one ignores the false readings, is there going to be any long-term damage to the Elektroblok and/or ammeter?

Geoff


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

I had an Alden battery computer installed by Van Bitz at the same time as my Sterling B2B and this seems to give a perfectly accurate reading of what's happening.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

It is perfectly simple and will not cause anything any problems. Even the title of the post is misleading.

The existing system has a very poor B2B funtion connected up with wire that is really too thin to allow decent B2B charging.

So the solution is to install a dedicated B2B with big fat wires, just like is already used to connect the alternator to the engine battery. (if your leisure battery wires are smaller than the alternator to engine battery wires you will have a problem anyway! Imagine water coursing down a drainpipe and trying to fit a garden hose on the end of the drainpipe! and you will get a rough idea of the effect)

The Elektroblok B2B is fused from memory at about 20 amp so it you start trying to push 50amp through it it would kill it (bless) 

So the Elektroblok only counts power coming OUT of the battery and power INTO the battery, power in that the Elektroblok puts in through its mains battery charging function.

Consequently, you have a long drive and arrive with a fully charged bank of batteries (unlike the 80% charge you would have had with the Elektroblok B2B) 

However, the Elektroblok doesn't know about the additional power you have put into the leisure batterys due to the B2B so starts to squawk far too early that the batterys are discharged when they are not.

It is a bit like you trying to know how much money you have in your bank, when some one else has a paying in book and a debit card!

Fit a decent battery computer/monitor and your troubles will be over and you will have a system that can charge your leisure batteries properly. 

After all, rather than worry about solar panels and extra batteries, imagine that instead of arriving on site, incorrectly thinking that your batteries are fully charged when in reality they are only about 80% charged, your batteries were in fact correctly charged and actually nearer 100%

What a difference that would make? It is about time that the manufacturers adopted a decent charging regime in my opinion instead of the poor approach they currently take

Eddie


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Eddie

Thanks your reply. I have been studying it for some days but cannot reconcile some points you make with the situation I described.

Firstly you said the title of OP was misleading, but I only get the ammeter problem if the Sterling B2B is active.

Secondly you recommend a dedicated B2B, which is what the Sterling is. And heavy wiring - we used 2X35mm cable for the +ve side of the B2B feed.

Thirdly, you talked about routing 50A though the Elektroblok. By definition the Sterling goes directly from Battery to Battery and is not routed via the Elektroblok

Fourthly you talk about the Elektoblok measuring charge state. There is no meter display on the Elektroblok, but there is an ammeter on the Schaudt Instrument Panel. However that is measuring current flow not charge state. Even given that the Elektroblok is confused about the charge state of the leisure battery, I cannot understand why the Schaudt Instrument panel ammeter shows a Discharge of 15A.

Perhaps you can clarify my understanding, please.

Geoff


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi the post title is misleading as there is no problem! Remove the fuses from the Sterling and everything would display correctly.

The B2B is charging the battery and the Elektroblok/Schaudt set up is not in series with the Sterling so the charge is never registered. Consequently the information displayed on the display is flawed.

The discharge is due I suspect to the fact that you have not disabled the existing leisure bettery charging set up.

You would not be able to connect the Sterling through your Elektroblok/Schaudt set up as it is not man enough.

Eddie


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Eddie

As I said in my OP, I believe the Sterling B2B is functioning correctly but the problem is with the ammeter.

As far as removing fuses in the Sterling system, surely they are there for protection? But if I did remove one (them) (which?), are you suggesting the ammeter would show the charge rate being provided by the Sterling B2B to the leisure batteries?

You seem to be unsure why the ammeter is showing a discharge with the Sterling on-line.

Sorry to be like a dog with a bone, but as an ex-commercial pilot I like to know the systems I am working with, so I appreciate any advice.

Geoff


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Geoff

"As I said in my OP, I believe the Sterling B2B is functioning correctly but the problem is with the ammeter"

Yes I understand this, but the ammeter is only able to tell you what is going in and out through it. Your putting power into the battery that is not going through the ammeter so it will be innacurate.

"As far as removing fuses in the Sterling system, surely they are there for protection? But if I did remove one (them) (which?), are you suggesting the ammeter would show the charge rate being provided by the Sterling B2B to the leisure batteries?"

No I simply suggested removing the fuses to disable the Streling briefly to show the ammeter once again displaying correctly. Regard to the fuses, hopefully all of the HD cables you have installed have fuses each end. 

"You seem to be unsure why the ammeter is showing a discharge with the Sterling on-line"

No I am not unsure, I know why. you have not isolated the original split charge system. The B2B puts a large load on the engine battery to con the alternator to working harder. your existing system is simply a relay that puts the batteries in parallel when the engine is running. Consequently the B2B draws on the engine battery, and this is reflected by a discharge on the leisure battery. Isolate the existing split charge system and you will not show a discharge on the ammeter when the engine is running.

"Sorry to be like a dog with a bone, but as an ex-commercial pilot I like to know the systems I am working with, so I appreciate any advice"

Pay Van Bitz to installed the next one fitted then :lol:

Eddie :wink:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Eddie

There was no time to come to Somerset.

So how would VanBitz have got round the problem?

A PM with a quote for a wiring diagram (and guarantee) might solve the problem for me , on basis of finding competent auto-electrician here in Poland.

Thanks, Geoff


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Geoff

The two products are incompatable so there is no solution other than fitting an additional shunt based battery computer.

If you fit one with a 100amp shunt you will be able to see exactly what is going into the battery and how much your discharging.

There is no other solution re ammeter.

Have you disabled the original split charge unit? 

One last thought you said that you installed 2 x 35mmSq cable, as I already mentioned these should be fused either end, but did you remember to uprate the negative cable from the chassis to the negative post on the leisure batteries? A common mistake which will effect the performance of the B2B

Eddie


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