# Your opinion on Fiat based motorhomes



## darach (Dec 15, 2006)

Hi, I purchased a new motorhome in 2008 and when I looked into it people were having a lot of problems with the Fiat, water leaks, gear boxes, clutches, shudders etc. We bought a Mercedes based vehicle and never regretted it. We are starting next year to look for a replacement and we wanted to know what members experiences are with the modern type Fiat based motorhome. Have things changed?
Derek


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I have had a 2007 Fiat based motorhome since new.
apart from the usual recalls it has had only one breakdown, with which Fiat's camper service dealt with very efficiently.
I would have no hesitation in buying another.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Mine, a 2008, is fine.


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

They're fine, and a joy to drive. I would have another.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I have had a 2008 2.3 and a 3L. I have been very happy with both of them. The 2.3 had the reverse gear mod even though I did not think it was a problem and I have sealed the windscreen scuttle on both of them.
I do not want to tempt fate but I have had no breakdowns on either of them. A total of 35,000 miles. With the 2.3 I had intermittent engine warning light operation, but no loss of performance, which coincided with a trip to the French high alps. It went away when I descended to lower altitude.
Would I have another? The answer is yes as long as the Euro V proves as reliable as the Euro 1V.


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have had four Fiat based campers now and they are absolutely fine

I feel they loosen up around 12 to 15 thousand miles and go very well indeed

I am on a tag axle Bessie now and would recommend them to anybody


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

We have a 2009 Fiat based van and are not thinking of changing it.

The OP has a 2008 Mercedes based van and *is* thinking of changing it.

:wink:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Fiat*

I would stick with MB.

Erneboy has a Fiat Frankia, might be worth a look through his posts.

TM


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I had an '03 plate Autotrail on a Sprinter base and now run an '07 Plate Autotrail on Fiat base.

The (to be fair much later) Fiat makes the Sprinter seems VERY agricultural to drive in comparison  

I did have a few troubles with the Merc which I have not (touching wood as I type :wink: ) had with the Fiat.

BUT having said that I AM having "issues" with the towbar fitted to my Fiat base (very early X250) moving and it looks like its the underlying vehicle (rather than the towbar) that may be at fault


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Derek

to me its more a question of front wheel or rear wheel drive


Rear wheel drive every time for me after having two FWD Fiat Ducatos
an RWD Iveco Daily & currently a RWD MB Sprinter


though my friends FWD Renault Master seems to hand wet grass & slippery conditions better than a Ducato - it also seems to return very good fuel economy

don't forget to let us all know what you settle on


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Apart from the clutch issue on my current 3 litre I like them fine. I believe that issue has been resolved on later models by fitting a softer friction plate. We had a new clutch fitted at 18,000 miles but the new type was not around then, so I expect we will need another. But so far we have managed 30,000 on this second clutch. I drive as though the clutch is made of cheese, which it pretty much is.

We have only had one other Fiat problem when the check engine light came on. A Fiat garage reloaded the engine management software saying the remap software we had added had become corrupted. It fixed the problem.

I don't know whether I would buy another Fiat, probably not if I could find a van suiting our needs on another base. I am inclined not too only because their attitude to 3 litre judder was to deny that there was a problem and I can't help thinking that as they got away with that they would try the same thing again should other problems arise in new models, Alan.


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

I researched which was the best and most reliable base vehicle and although Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen are all built in the same Italian factory the Fiat gets a Fiat engine, the Peugeot gets a Ford engine and cannot remember what the Citroen gets, so I opted for the Peugeot Boxer and in almost 3 years we have had NO mechanical problems with it at all covering over 18,000 miles and to boot get an average 37 - 39 mpg driving steady.

Cheers

DJM


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

I have no experience of Fiat motorhomes but I have owned several Fiat cars, and every one of them were excellent. My only gripe is with Fiat service as anything slightly unusual they try to stick on the driver (as already mentioned). In my case it was a rattling clutch component on my wife's Fiat 500 which they swore was not a known problem even though I had downloaded similar stories from the web. It was eventaully sorted but only due to my persistance.

I also posted on here recently regarding the poor service I got when I was called by the Servce Desk regarding the pending service - http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-133927-.html

Of course that could be down to my dealer rather than Fiat themselves.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I did notice in Turkey the majority of vehicles were Fiats. Cars, Taxis, vans, Trucks and Busses. 
Given the atrocious roads drivers and abuse I guess they must be very durable.

Ray.


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

DJMotorhomer said:


> ........ the Fiat gets a Fiat engine, the Peugeot gets a Ford engine .....
> 
> Cheers
> 
> DJM


Thats news to me, do you have a reference source for that information?
Davy


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

DavyS said:


> DJMotorhomer said:
> 
> 
> > ........ the Fiat gets a Fiat engine, the Peugeot gets a Ford engine .....
> ...


Davy, I believe the Peugot Boxer 2.2HDI is a Ford engine. The 2.3 and 3l in the Boxer and Ducato are Iveco .
Ray

From the web: A 2.2L engine, Ford's ZSD-422 with a displacement of 2198 cc, will be used in the Peugeot LCV range of vans.


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

DavyS said:


> DJMotorhomer said:
> 
> 
> > ........ the Fiat gets a Fiat engine, the Peugeot gets a Ford engine .....
> ...


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

We only started motorhoming in 1972 so our personal experience is a tad limited. Then we bought a Dormobile Freeway on a Bedford CF 2.3 litre van. It went like a train, the carb froze up on long runs, the clutch suffered from adhesion (drill out the rivets in a friction plate was the cure) The gearbox was rubbish as the selectors would wear until it was possible to select reverse and a forwards gear at the same time and it would therefore lock up solid. The rear wheels used to work out with the attendant half shafts until the shaft was no longer engaged in the differential. But worst of all and despite Ziebart from new it rusted like a goodun.
There is no doubt today that the Fiat / Peugeot is the most popular base vehicle for converters, this may have a great deal to do with the subsidy by the Italian government to Fiat which enables some stonking commercial agreements which favor the converters who in the main only pay for the base vehicle when the conversion is sold to the end customer. 
And yes the Fiats do handle like they are on rails. 
BUT going back over 10 years at least, the Fiat vans and their derivatives have suffered a succession of different problems most of which are attributed to the design. 5th gear on older gearboxes for sure was fragile to say the least but as it was done as an add-on to a 4 speed box it was not that difficult to change. Then there was the water ingress debacle which had other spin offs including seized injectors, flooded batteries and the like. The all new gearbox overcame the 5th gear problems of the previous generation but with it came some revised engine suspension that favored going forward so much that it was close to oscillation in reverse such that some actually with very little encouragement did exactly that. This was not helped by the gear ratio in reverse being much too fast. The crowning glory for a very long time was Fiats head in the sand approach to these problems leaving many owners up the Swanee without a paddle. So we have never personally owned a Fiat van (driven a few though) although we did own a couple of the original Fiat 500 cars (wish we still had one now) but even these suffered from cylinder head problems AKA stripped threads for the rocker shaft bolts.
Our first Merc was an Autotrail Scout based on a 312 chassis cab. The experience of this is what guided us towards another Merc which is our present tardis based on a 616 chassis cowl. 
There is another reason we have never had a Fiat based MH and that is because they are front wheel drive. Having attended many functions where the weather was less than conducive (like totally flooded grass) then rear wheel drive wins every time as it puts the drive where the weight is. (York, Stratford and Peterborough for example) Yes you can fit chains to the front Fiat wheels and this works but we have never needed to. The third reason is a preference for having the engine facing the right way, then a removable gearbox and then the rear axle. All independently serviceable. But the cherry on top is no camshaft drive belt to fail as its chain driven. Yes the new 3 litre engine in the Fiat is very good, chain cam as well, perhaps its because its designed and made by Iveco!
Is Merc suspension a tad soft? Well compared to the rail like Fiats YES but my tender bones prefer a soft ride and our pace round roundabouts means that the crockery stays in the cupboards and the jar of beetroot in the fridge.
But all this does come at a price.
The Fiats do represent good VFM if you have a goodun.

Recalls ?? What recalls??

C.


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## darach (Dec 15, 2006)

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies. Looks like things are getting better with Fiat. There's no question that rear wheel drive is far better. Last winter in the alps in a snowy aires approx 20 vans all with chains to get out of the aires. I drove out without chains and never spun a wheel. But in 4 winters 2 month each time I have only driven on actual snow about 4 times. Never had the chains out of the bag.
Going to do some research on my next trip and hopefully finalise at Dusseldorf show. 
The reason for the question is there is so little choice of merc based motorhomes and so much choice on Fiat.
Will let you know what we end up getting.
Derek


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## Pard (May 1, 2005)

For what it's worth, having a Merc now and Fiat previously, I'd prefer to stick with a Merc, but as you say, there's a whole lot more choice with Fiat. However, by the time of Dusseldorf, might there not be a few new ones on the new Ford Transit to consider...


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

All base vehicles have problems. Fiat seem to stand out more due to the greater numbers of them on the road.
Our mh is 7 years old. Base vehicle has never given us a problem.

See how many Ducato vans are driven about by white van men,

Dave p


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## Scattycat (Mar 29, 2011)

Given that a vast majority of MH's are fiat/citroen /peaugot based (basically the same engine), I wouldn't think that generally there is generically much wrong with them.

I'd be more concerned to be looking at the reliability, quality
and aftersales service of the company carrying out the fabrication and fitting out of the habitation area


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

I like my 2010 3.0 L very well. But I have had two repairs under warranty. First the alternator broke down then the power steering. The alternator job was quick enough but the power steering took several weeks to sort.

It's my first MH and I think it's excellent to drive. Only issue is the front wheel drive on slippery surfaces.


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## poleman (Aug 31, 2008)

We bought ours new in 2008, delivered 2009 and we were told that it wouldn't have the clutch judder, which it did / didn't depending on what you call judder. We had the modification done for peace of mind and we are mostly pleased with the van. The steering is noisy and the brakes constantly squeak but it's no more than I expected of a Fiat, It is nice to drive and is no worse than the quality of a Sprinter which is by no means the bees knees in my opinion,


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

My opinion is that I wouldn't own another pre-2010 build X250.

We had about 4 recalls carried out on both of our X250's (2007 and 2008) including a few interesting incidents such as spare wheel carriers dropping off (prior to the recall and Fiat refused to pay for a replacement), head gasket failing 2 months out of warrenty etc. We did about 40,000 in these vehicles.

All with the 2.3 Iveco engine (parts are cheaper if you change the F for an I in the part code according to our local Fiat/Iveco garage).

That being said my father has a 2011 Fiat X250 with 15,000 miles and it drives without fault. I'm fairly sure the X250's have ironed out most of the faults.

I like the driving position, handling, viability. I do prefer the 2.2HDi engine in the Citroen/Peugeot.

Our earlier 2.0Hdi Peugeot Boxer based Compass Suntor did 10,000 miles without fault. 

Time will tell if our Renault Master 3.0DCI proves a good choice, but I just didn't want an early X250 and couldn't afford a 2010+ model


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Merc V merc*



Mrplodd said:


> I had an '03 plate Autotrail on a Sprinter base and now run an '07 Plate Autotrail on Fiat base.
> 
> The (to be fair much later) Fiat makes the Sprinter seems VERY agricultural to drive in comparison
> 
> ...


Mr Plod Wrote:

"The (to be fair much later) Fiat makes the Sprinter seems VERY agricultural to drive in comparison".

My Current two Sprinters make our old Sprinter seem agricultural.

Some of the earlier 2006/7 Sprinters had some issues. Seems they are all resolved now.

As trek said, RWD is one of the reasons in favour of the Sprinter. Especially in twin rear wheel chassis.

Smooth V6 and Strong, quiet 4 cylinder engines. Along with what I think is the only true auto now available on a European van/light truck Chassis, 5 or 7 Speed.

You can also get a 4 x 4 Drive (6 driven wheels in the twin rear wheel chassis). You can even buy this in an auto.

Standard fit latest version of Adaptive ESP+

Standard Vans Retail prices (Discounted) start at

£12,500 + VAT for the Ducato
£17.500 + VAT for the Sprinter (Includes Upgraded Dash with Matrix Computer, Bluetooth, Cruise control, remote steering wheel controls for UK Spec (Supplied in the UK via MB UK)).

Fleet buyers and converters will get much better discounts. I have seen the massive discounts they get.

TM


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

We have owned both as well as Peugeot and Renault vans and there is nothing wrong with the Fiat/Peugeots.

We changed to the Mercedes 163bhp this year and all I can say is having owned it and driven it around the Alps I would never go back to the Fiat base again.

The Mercedes is way quieter, smoother and all together nicer to drive than any of the others we have owned.

99% of people here will tell you the Fiat is great because that is either all they have had or what they have, they are right it does the job just fine....... but nowhere to close the way the latest Mercedes does it.


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I have now driven Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen base motorhomes for over 20 years and never had a breakdown. I have had two recalls on the X250, one for the scuttle, and one for the spare wheel mod.
Recently I have had a Panel Van Conversion for which the X250 was the best choice for me because of the body shape and it's lack of body roll. I also find it a more pleasurable drive than my car. I would have no hesitation in having another, although I am still happy with what i have got!


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I have a 2009 Fiat with the wider rear chassis which practically eliminates the roll experienced on my earlier model. I really have nothing to complain about since the judder was fixed; a nice van to own and drive.
Alan


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Sprinter*

You know you want another Sprinter.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

something I have noticed in favour of Mercedes Benz over Fiats are the availability of parts

I have ordered some obscure items from my local MB dealer when I was modifying my Sprinters heating system 


these parts were not listed on my local MB's dealers database ( because they had never seen them before) but they were on MB's main parts database & arrived the next day from Germany.

same goes when I was modifying a friends Fiat Ducato windscreen washers he was constantly having problems with the Fiats washers so we ordered some MB sprinter parts got them next day and now his washers spray onto windscreen direct from the wiper blade arms


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Morning all,


One would expect the Mercedes to be better if paying £10000 to £20000 more than any other vehicle My experience with the early X250 which I own with 45000 miles on is good. Just spare wheel carrier, yes it does have a spare wheel. And the recall for gearbox. Would I have another ? yes because of the sheer value for money.


norm


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

When I bought my Frankia back in 2008 there wasn't much difference in price between the Fiat Ducato Version or the MB Sprinter version.

don't know what the difference is at the moment


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Morning all,
> 
> One would expect the Mercedes to be better if paying £10000 to £20000 more than any other vehicle


Yes, one would, but this one didn't! After juddergate, I would rather not have a motor home if Fiat had to be the base.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*washer jets*



trek said:


> something I have noticed in favour of Mercedes Benz over Fiats are the availability of parts
> 
> I have ordered some obscure items from my local MB dealer when I was modifying my Sprinters heating system
> 
> ...


Do you have the part number for the jets? I need an extra one on my drivers side.

TM


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*more*



goldi said:


> Morning all,
> 
> One would expect the Mercedes to be better if paying £10000 to £20000 more than any other vehicle My experience with the early X250 which I own with 45000 miles on is good. Just spare wheel carrier, yes it does have a spare wheel. And the recall for gearbox. Would I have another ? yes because of the sheer value for money.
> 
> norm


Hi,

Whatever you buy, it should work and last.

But not all manufacturers charge you more or much more for a Mercedes over Fiat.

Frankia's current prices Show an FF2 Fiat Alko at just £4,700 less than a Mercedes Alko FF2.

TM


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

Our is a 2007 Fiat and it's a great drive. No problems and we get around 28MPG from our hitop.
Best of all no Cambelt so no worries on that score.


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## Mandale (May 18, 2011)

If only Toyota made a big van. Our new model is based on the Fiat, seems like a good base vehicle. Mercedes are great, but this comes at a cost. My personal favourite is the Renault Master, the price is slightly more than the Fiat but not as much as the Mercedes, but I just realy like the Renault. Most reliable van? Toyota by far, but they don't build vans for the European market anymore.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

*Re: washer jets*



teemyob said:


> Do you have the part number for the jets? I need an extra one on my drivers side.
> 
> TM


Hi Trev

there are two nozzles which includes the pipe from the connector on the bulkhead a drivers side & passenger side but I don't remember which is which

MA000 860 46 47 Nozzle
MA000 860 47 47 Nozzle

they were £4.75 each when I bought them back in 2009

original thread for converting ducato washers to sprinter style


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## friscan (May 1, 2005)

Hi Everyone...
Interesting topic, and something which will no doubt be regularly debated for some time to come. 

I used to drive a variety of different size and types of panels vans some at high speed (Police) and in varying road conditions. Most performed as they should as they were mainly unaltered from their factory state, but convert a panel van or put a motorhome body on the chassis and you are looking at something completely different to drive and handle. 

I have owned a variety of motorhomes based on Fiat mechanics and coupled with the brilliant Alko chassis all have been a joy to drive. In May of this year, whilst on a full time trip around Europe in Italy, we were hit at high speed by a driver that fell asleep on the Autostrada which momentarily put the motorhome on two wheels. I am convinced that the Alko chassis (and correct loading!) stopped us overturning. So, when choosing a Coachbuilt or A Class then I feel Fiat are still the best choice.

However with their own development into the motorhome market Ford are now becoming a good choice. After our accident we decided to try a Ford Transit 140bhp Hymer Coachbuilt with air assisted suspension. I have to say there was such an improvement over the driving position, general comfort, performance of the engine and fuel economy. It coped so much better than the 130bhp 2.3 Fiat on some of the passes in the Alps we went through. 

Panel Van conversions are different as they are mostly unaltered in basic form and therefore I would prefer to be behind the wheel of a Ford, Mercedes or better still a VW Crafter type body. Costs also factor into this but again I feel Ford Panel vans are just as good as the more expensive VW/Mercedes and a worthy consideration over a Fiat.

The manufacturers will often change if they get a better deal when mass purchasing the base vehicle so we will always get a good choice on base vehicles and conversions. Most base vehicle manufacturers now produce reliable products and all will have problems, but what we choose depends on cost, choice of conversion, brand loyalty and where and how you are going to use it the most.


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## hanray (Feb 2, 2011)

We have an 09 plate Swift Bolero and have just gone over 14k miles. It runs like a dream! Week before last, we drove up to Doncaster from Mid Devon to pick up an ebay purchase. The 530 miles round trip returned 28mpg. So far, the only problem we had with the it was the 12volt control panel system made by Nord electrica, (a common fault). Eventually Swift retro fitted a Sergent system (and the fridge which the Nord system blew) and since then, everything is sweet.
Anyway, back to the original question. Would I purchase a Fiat based vehicle again.... Yes, but like others have said, I would prefer a rear wheel drive and definitely not with a Nord electica control panel.
I suppose the next question should be, would I purchase another swift product?


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

so does this mean my euro 5 2012 ford transit 140bhp 2.2 base is rear wheel drive ???


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## hanray (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Peaky
It might be. The transit is available in front, rear, and 4 wheel drive. 
I found with my Bolero that on a few occasions more weight over the driving wheels would have helped, especially on grass and ascending the steep roads around Bath.


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

will i only know when i get stuck in a muddy field or slippery situations ?? manual s not much help !!!


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## hanray (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Peaky
Have a look between the rear wheels. If you have a big lump in the middle of the axle with a prop shaft attached at one end and the gearbox at the other - you have rear wheel drive. Alternatively, ask your dealer. I suspect your vehicle is probably front wheel drive, because rear wheel drive vehicles tend to be higher off the ground to clear the running gear.


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

will pop out and look !!


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## seaside-bill (Jun 9, 2012)

My '06 Ducato based Trigano recently developed an intermittent starting problem. Seems it's a problem with the immobiliser (only 13k miles). Cost is about £500-£600 and long wait as the replacement has to come from the factory in Italy who are on 2 week shutdown! Ouch. Occasionally I get a bit of clutch judder, but not sufficient to warrant attention.


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## ronecc (Jan 30, 2012)

Well my 2012 Euro 5 Fiat 2.3 has a clutch judder. So Fiat obviously haven't fixed the problem totally. My dealer told me, the only clutch judder problems have been with motorhome owners, because of the extra weight of the van. 'You have to give it more rev's'. he said.
Anybody know of a good dealer in Lancashire/Yorkshire?


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## Franck (Aug 29, 2012)

*Fiat*

Have a 2012 Bessacarr 410 and have just done a 6000 mile trip, 4000. in Morocco. Even on very poor roads obtained 36 mpg - no judder or any other problems. Its front wheel drive and very happy to take off in 2 gear on the flat. Take care with parking on wet ground - this applies to all motor homes - if wet I reverse onto the grass and leave my front wheels on the hard standing.
Very happy to buy another Fiat.
Franck


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## satco (Jan 21, 2012)

peaky said:


> will pop out and look !!


Ford RWD vehicles all come up with
twin tyres on the rear axle .quite easy to reconnoiter


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## Franck (Aug 29, 2012)

*Fiat - great service*

My Fiat based Motor home a Bessacarr E410 ( Vintage 2012) on our way homeward failed to start after two days staying with friends in Portugal. I phoned Fiat in Italy and within 50 minutes a van pulled up, found the problem a loose negative to the battery - fixed this in a moment. That what I call service.
Well done Fiat
PS I find this motor home a dream to drive - being on the smaller end and not overloaded the engine has bags of power, easy to turn and park etc. I do see the same engine on 5/6 berth models and feel they must be underpowered - also same towing a small car.


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## 108117 (Nov 5, 2007)

Here in Aussie the Fiat is popular mainly because of price, but a well known motor home rental company have sold most of their Fiats and purchashed the Sprinter as they were having to much transmission trouble.

I myself do not like front wheel drive and with our change of weather conditions here they have more of a tendacy to bog.

I am waiting on a new sprinter model 519 MWB and they tell me this may be here around March.

I have a sprinter tray body that I have a slide on camper that fits on neatly as I use the truck for work this suits me.

Many of my fellow motor homers have Fiats and will certainly stick to them and same goes with sprinter m/homers they tend to stick to the one make.

Our roads are very rough compare to Europe we chew out , suspensions, shockys and tyres, but a good test for european vehicles!
Regards,
Aussie John


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

yes your right front wheel drive for me , still love my ford and deliberately picked this as my base, plenty of poke and is bedding in nicely im sure fiats are lovely too but all i could remember is they have a few issues from time to time when i was picking out my van,so stuck with ford.


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

There is no right or wrong, each to his own but all I can say is our drive is fairly steep and covered with trees at the entrance, when the leaves drop with the FWD Fiat and Peugeot we had a problem with wheelspin but the RWD Mercedes just goes straight up, even the traction control doesn't kick in.

Our main reason for changing to the Mercedes was we wanted an automatic and I found the Fiat 'auto' really jerky and unpleasant. We have the six speed auto but the new 7G is supposedly even better, I don't think it is on some motorhomes quite yet so worth waiting for.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Our first van was a VW base then we moved on to a Puegeot. 
The mechanics seemed to be ok but the general chassis and cab build was cheap with continual silly faults. 
Now we have a Sprinter which we love although its getting a bit dated.
I asked the guys at Autosleeper why they did not build their vans on a Merc Chassis. The simple answer was the extra £5K.

Given the choice I would go MB every time. 

Oh! rear wheel drive certainly helps.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*V6*



GROUNDHOG said:


> There is no right or wrong, each to his own but all I can say is our drive is fairly steep and covered with trees at the entrance, when the leaves drop with the FWD Fiat and Peugeot we had a problem with wheelspin but the RWD Mercedes just goes straight up, even the traction control doesn't kick in.
> 
> Our main reason for changing to the Mercedes was we wanted an automatic and I found the Fiat 'auto' really jerky and unpleasant. We have the six speed auto but the new 7G is supposedly even better, I don't think it is on some motorhomes quite yet so worth waiting for.


I think in V6 Form. Mercedes will no longer be fitting the old 5 Speed gearbox to this engine for European markets. Instead it will be the 6 Speed manual or 7G-Tronic Optional Auto.

Latest UK price list states that the 5 Speed G40 Gearbox option is not available with V6 Engines - List £1,035 +VAT. 7G-Tronic G42 7 Speed auto for BlueEFFICIENCY models only, UK List £1834+VAT.

If that is the same as LHD production. This must mean that MB are going to make all V6 engine motorhomes with auto BlueEfficiency models. Has to be as they have invested a fair bit of time and money in ALKO chassis production.

There are some other new Sprinter models out. 4X4 Traveliners and NGT Traveliners. 316NGT Chassis for conversions. All Available with Autos.

TM

PS: Only SprintShift Robotised Manuals were 6 speed.


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## Franck (Aug 29, 2012)

*Fiat*

Hi Guys and Snoopin,
Twenty-two years ago I had a hand built, double back axel and all the mod cons on a VW chassis. The Generator fell off four times due to a duff mounting, each time leaving me stranded in Scotland. I replaced this with a Mazda Bongo 4x4 still in use with my eldest daughter. The Fiat I have 2012 edition is a dream to drive , bags of power, no shudder if you give it bags of welly if off on a hill, other wise on the flat take off in second. Fuel consumption better than my small car - what's the problem you guys - maybe you need a driving lesson. I am 75 had a HGV and a A Licence most of my life. Listen to you engine, read the road and then select the right rpm and gear. Or if this is problem buy an automatic, give up fuel consumption and drive like a Yank. With a six speed, stick drive you are in control - enjoy it.


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

I am watching this with interest having rallied cars for years, I towed with Ford , Fiat and Mercedes in the 12 years of rallying

I can conclude that the dearest to run and by no means the best was the Merc 412, the best was the Ducato

I read all these rumblings about Juddergate again! Guys learn to drive carefully, if you fry your clutch plate with any vehicle because of the wrong combination of revs and clutch disengagement you will warp a plate or cover or total failure.

The original problem was the gearing was simply too high I know I had an 09 Voyager which had the conversation done. Fiat also fitted uprated mountings to minimise movement in drivetrain

Let your clutch out with minimum revs and let the clamp pressure of the cover do the work don't fry the plate by slipping it unnecessarily.

I know I will be attacked by the mechanical professionals now bit honest drive with empathy and sympathy and your campervan will not let you down

Fry the hell of it and it will, remember 1st is to enable forward movement and reverse is for slow speed manouvering, and learn to load the turbo correctly.

I am sorry if this is basic stuff to some of you but perception so often becomes reality.

Please feel free to pm me if I can help anybody with this.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Fiat*



Franck said:


> Hi Guys and Snoopin,
> Twenty-two years ago I had a hand built, double back axel and all the mod cons on a VW chassis. The Generator fell off four times due to a duff mounting, each time leaving me stranded in Scotland. I replaced this with a Mazda Bongo 4x4 still in use with my eldest daughter. The Fiat I have 2012 edition is a dream to drive , bags of power, no shudder if you give it bags of welly if off on a hill, other wise on the flat take off in second. Fuel consumption better than my small car - what's the problem you guys - maybe you need a driving lesson. I am 75 had a HGV and a A Licence most of my life. Listen to you engine, read the road and then select the right rpm and gear. Or if this is problem buy an automatic, give up fuel consumption and drive like a Yank. With a six speed, stick drive you are in control - enjoy it.


Some Modern Auto's are almost as economical as a manual, in particular the 7 speed I mention above. Some Robotised Manuals and full autos are even more economical than their standard manual alternatives.


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