# Lightweight motorcycles and insurance



## juliepoolie (May 9, 2005)

Looking into taking a motorbike with us abroad and wandered if anyone had any recommendations on a lightweight 125 / 250cc motorbike for use on a motorhome ?

Also how do people cope with the insurance aspect of it, especially with regards to travelling abroad aka full timing


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

We use a honda90. It only does about 35/40 two up but that's quite sufficient on hols.
You are entering a minefield when you put a bike on the back of a van, unless it's a big van!!,.
You need to be aware that it's not the size that is important but the weight.
for example, a 100 lb weight bike set at 60 cms behind the back axle is equivalent to a load of 160 pounds on the axle and a reduction on the front axle (p;lease don't ask me to explain the maths!!!).
It could result in you being taken off the road at a police weighbridge check if you are outside the van's parameters.
I've also heard, but no proof, that the bike should be covered up from sight in Spain and Portugal which might be another thing to consider.
Just some things for you to be going on with and it may help open up the question into a discussion
edit...Forgot to mention that we insure through our regular insurer (MCIA) and they know when both vehicles go abroad as I tell them.
regards
nobby


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Thanks for your comments, Nobby. We plan to fulltime in the summer, initially in UK then going abroad. We have a 125cc scooter (weighs 113Kg) so your comments on weights were interesting. I must find a weighbridge somewhere near Sheffield.

The scooter goes inside the garage, rather than a rear rack, and we have tandem axle so I believe we will be OK. I have not sorted out insurance for the scooter abroad, so your mention of MCIA was useful. I assume that MCIA insure your van and honda as a pair, then?


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

autostratus...thanks for the welcome.
We also like French aires,,,memo must get hold of this year's book of Aires de Service.

gandj..the two are not on the same policy but there may be an interaction between the two as I am sole driver and can only use one at a time. Incidentally every time I have gone looking for a quote MCIA has come out best for the last 5 years.
regards
noby


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## 88742 (May 9, 2005)

Calculations are all well & good but the only way to check properly is to take the outfit to a weighbridge and take various readings, although this doesn’t help much if you don’t have something to add weight to the motorhome, if you’ve already got a carrier fitted you could see if someone could lend you a bike to weigh. 

If you suspect you are nearing the limits you could ride the bike to weighbridge separately.

As Nobby (Welcome Nobby) say’s the further back you apply a load the more effect it will have on steering and axle weights.

Ian


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## Maxonian (May 13, 2005)

nobby said:


> for example, a 100 lb weight bike set at 60 cms behind the back axle is equivalent to a load of 160 pounds on the axle and a reduction on the front axle


Not sure about the maths here - if this is correct, it means the hypothetical MH has a wheelbase of 100cm.

Surely, for a load placed behind the rear axle, the additional axle loading is in the ratio of the distance of the load behind the rear axle divided by the wheelbase.

The maths is something that MHers should be aware of, given the lamentable payload of many European MHs.

For example, using the above figures and for a wheelbase of, say, 4m, the additional rear axle load would be 60/400x100=15lbs.

A more realistic example, of a rear carrier set 2.25 metres behind the rear axle, carrying a 125kg scooter (4m wheelbase MH), the additional rear axle loading is 2.25/4x125=70.3kg with a corresponding reduction in front axle load ie. rear axle +198 kg, front axle -70kg. This is significant, particularly if your payload is under 500kg.

~2200 years ago Archimedes said "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." Today - overload the rear of my MH and I will lift the front wheels off the ground.

You'll have guessed I feel strongly about weight issues - I recently sold an American RV which had an overloaded front axle as supplied - to make it legal, I had to make sure the fresh water tank, which was 3m behind the rear axle, was always full, and pack all the heavy gear into the lockers at the back.


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I was very interested in what has been said about weight on axle etc so I took a few measurements and also looked up my base vehicle spec ( Fiat Ducato - swb ), my bike weight (it's a Honda 125) and using your formula 2m*105kg/2.929m came up with 71.7kg extra load on the back axle. This equates to a 11.28 stone person standing over the back axle. My m/h is nominally a 5 berth and should therefore be able to carry 5 people, as there is normally only my wife and I at the front I don't imagine that  a virtual person at the back should overload it, what do you think? Is my 'logic' faulty?
Phil.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

I wouldn't bank on that You could already be near the max axle loading in "cruising trim". You really need to look at the plate details and possibly even weigh it at you local weighbridge ( I usually find my local quarry is quite obliging)
nobby


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## Maxonian (May 13, 2005)

The maths is ok - but don't forget to add the weight of the scooter to the rear axle load - ie with the scooter on board the total rear axle load is 105kg+71kg = +176kg ; the front axle load is -71kg. 

It is unwise to make assumptions about your payload based on number of berths. The only certain way to be sure of payload is to weigh your MH and individual axle weights. You can then calculate payload and the appropriate axle distribution using the information on the the vehicle rating plate. 

For example, my MH has axle ratings of 1850kg (front) and 2300kg (rear) and a total weight rating of 4000kg. Actual weighing (empty), gave 1670kg (front), 1490kg (rear) and 3160kg (total). So, most of the unused capacity (840kg) is on the rear axle. This is ok, beacause our MH has a rear garage, which is where we put most of the weight anyway. 

Weighing is the only way to have confidence that you are not overloading the MH or axles.


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Thanks for the info, I'll try and get it weighed if I can find a weighbridge around here, I think there is an HGV MOT Testing station which might have one.
Phil.


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

*payload*

:roll: hi, while we were searching (sore feet) for our motor home, read loads of articles, and pay load was one of them out of mmm i think, and a few others, i had to really push, and chatter to get our dealer to even talk about payloads, - i got the distinct impression that they (all) just want to sell you one, (even the makers) and even now i think a 6 berth should be just that, six people clothes they need, and other bits and pieces and it should all fit in (with seat belts) included in the payload, come on makers, make it be what its supposed to be!!!  if you know what i mean! Oh and i got rid of my kwakker 400 cos it was too big for the scooter rack, and we have a 50cc scooter(  ) called tigger-cos we have to bounce it up some hills(we did :lol: tho) pppps yes we really need to get to a weigh bridge to (what are cupboards for - if not to put things in-iaskmyself) we passed a quarry somewhere and did think of asking, oh well


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## 90791 (May 1, 2005)

Read a good article in MMM a couple of years ago, where the author had got a Suzuki 125 which he took along with the motorhome. He was an ex-biker from his youth, and accustomed to something more powerful, and he commented that he was very surprised just how capable the 125 was. The valid point made was that the nature of motorhoming is such that one is rarely riding great distances - 40-50km maximum usually. And the roads you're seeking are usually the slower, more touristy ones where raw power isn't needed. He rode two up with his wife and was very pleased. 

It convinced me to look at the 125cc size if I buy a motorbike instead of my bicycles. I've actually got a 250cc Honda XR at home (and an XR200 and an XR100 - it's called having sons), and even though the 250cc is road licensed, it just doesn't feel as though it would be the right bike for a motorhome. I'd be looking for something more civilised. As a minimum I'd want the bike to have a top speed of 100-110 kph (60 mph). I wouldn't be riding it at those speeds, but that allows for a comfortable ride up to 80 kph even in a head wind and with a load and when the engine is off-tune.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

We run a Honda 90 on our M/H.
It's light enough to put on and off and keeps us within the axle and weight limits (just) on our Transit based Herald.
Only does 45 mph flat out but cruises quite happily at 30 with two up, but who's rushing anyway!!.
nobby


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Julie, You don't say what sort of a bike you're after or how you plan to use it. Unless you want a dirt bike then getting something with any real performance which you can carry on the back of a van will be hard so you might as well go for a scooter.

I used to carry a Yamaha TDR250 on the back of my LT (see the photo gallery) and it was a hoot to ride (especially after the Stan Stevens tune...) but I stopped taking it in the end as after we'd been away for a few weeks I was too chilled out to enjoy riding like that.

It weighed about 160kg wet (plus another 35 for the rack) and the van was just under it's max gross weight. The van didn't have a lot of rear overhang, and I never thought to just weigh the rear axle, but I did have _three_ rear tyre blowouts...

Realistally I don't think you could carry a bike like this on the back of any single rear-wheel coachbuilt van without overloading the rear axle.


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## 90791 (May 1, 2005)

haylingchrist makes a good point


> Realistically I don't think you could carry a bike like this on the back of any single rear-wheel coachbuilt van without overloading the rear axle


That could be expanded to say that you probably couldn't carry a bike legally on the back of any single axle coachbuilt van unless it was plated at (marginal) 3850 kgs or 4500 kgs. That means any Mercedes 413/416 (and 616) chassis is probably fine as is the Fiat Ducato Maxi with the Al-Ko chassis and tandem rear axle. However the Fiat Ducato SWB and MWB chassis and many of the Fiat Ducato LWB chassis are probably not suitable. And since many British motorhomes are built with very little payload capacity, a rule of thumb would be to question the carriage of a motorbike on the back of any British motorhome. If it is a 6 berth, then IMHO it probably makes it more marginal, not less.

Is this a wind up of British motorhomes? Yes it is, and will stay so until the day when they start taking payload as seriously as the Germans. A starting point would be for the (otherwise excellent) British mmmotorhome magazines (Which one you might ask - all of them) to put their test motorhomes over the weighbridge and report the true weight, rather then the manufacturer's dreams.

The German motorhome road tests do it well, as the following graphic shows (sorry its in German, but the gist of it is clear):


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Your local council-Trading Standards should be able to advise you of a public weighbridge otherwise ask at your local quarry or similar. Cost could be "a fiver for the coffe fund" or up to maybe £20 depends whether you want a "ticket" for the job not!!!

nobby


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi drandall,

try http://www.uk-trucking.net/travel/s...=Weighbridges&search[location]=&Submit=search

pete.


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