# Better Panel Fixings



## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

A couple of years ago I removed one of the panels of my Hartal hab door in order to fix a broken spring & grease up the mechanism.

Ever since, the panel has caused me no end of grief and, so far, every effort I have made to re-attach it has failed.

Part of the problem is that there's not much of an edge to which to attach any sort of fixing.

It was originally held in places with hook & loop strips, which had seemingly worked very well, but then refused to re-attach properly, with the result that the panel fell off again and again, so I have now had two attempts at sticking on hook & loop fixings (bought from B&Q and cut length-wise to the correct width.

Both these attempts failed mainly due to the fact that the sticky back of the strips doesn't stick properly to either the back of the panel, nor the lip around the edge of the door. Possibly due to there being what looks like traces of silicone sealant. What that's doing there I have no idea, but my attempts to remove it (scratch it off with a scalpel) didn't seem to be very effective.

So, does anybody know a better way? Can you get hook & loop or some sort of alternative that can be glued in place more firmly.

I don't want to fibreglass the panel in place permanently, as I can well imagine needing to get in there in the future to fiddle with the Hartal door mechanism, which is excessively complex and non too robust.

Suggestions welcomed.

Morph


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

I've experienced exactly the same problem as you.
On my first encounter with a Hartal door internals, I found the panel had been Sikaflex in place by several generous dabs of the product, which I used a thin very sharp bladed knife to release, when replacing after repair I fixed with same method, it worked very well.
Different van and different Hartal door I find exactly as you describe and like you despite buying the finest hook and loop material money can buy, the strips failed to stay in place, so cleaned it all off, resorted to the Sikaflex and it's been solid ever since.


.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

How about using the 3M double sided extra strong sticky tape.

cabby


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

eurajohn said:


> I've experienced exactly the same problem as you.
> On my first encounter with a Hartal door internals, I found the panel had been Sikaflex in place by several generous dabs of the product, which I used a thin very sharp bladed knife to release, when replacing after repair I fixed with same method, it worked very well.
> Different van and different Hartal door I find exactly as you describe and like you despite buying the finest hook and loop material money can buy, the strips failed to stay in place, so cleaned it all off, resorted to the Sikaflex and it's been solid ever since.
> 
> .


Can you remember which Sikaflex you used? Sounds like a potential solution, provided it doesn't prevent me from getting into it if I need to in the future.

Morph


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## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

Self adhesive velcro should work as long as you can clean the surface properly. You can get silicone sealant remover from screwfix. Once removed completely degrease it with lighter fuel fluid. Should work.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

IMO, proper 3M stuff has very good adhesive properties. How about Dual Lock, available in various widths and strengths. An example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Dual-L...hash=item2341edbb64:m:mhqgqHHmY77vgJ6mCpnFamA

This stuff also sticks like the proverbial http://www.amazon.co.uk/UniBond-More-Nails-Permanent-Roll/dp/B001DYS76Q. Last used it to fix a number plate on a trailer and when I came to take it off, the number plate snapped.


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

deefordog said:


> IMO, proper 3M stuff has very good adhesive properties. How about Dual Lock, available in various widths and strengths. An example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Dual-L...hash=item2341edbb64:m:mhqgqHHmY77vgJ6mCpnFamA
> 
> This stuff also sticks like the proverbial http://www.amazon.co.uk/UniBond-More-Nails-Permanent-Roll/dp/B001DYS76Q. Last used it to fix a number plate on a trailer and when I came to take it off, the number plate snapped.


Dual Lock is a possibility, though my current problem is not that the hooks came away from the loops (although that did happen in places), but more that the stick-back didn't stick, or stay stuck, in which case as @chilly says, perhaps silicone sealant remover and clean the fibreglass surface with solvent may be the answer?

Looking at the price of it, I may get a roll of Dual Lock anyway, as it'll doubtless come in useful in the future.

Morph


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

That's the beauty of the No More Nails tape - provided the surfaces are clean and grease free, this stuff gives a tremendous hold. Only downside of any double sided tape is that you only get one chance at positioning the pieces.


There's a lighter weight Dual Lock available and can be had in clear in lieu of black.


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

deefordog said:


> That's the beauty of the No More Nails tape - provided the surfaces are clean and grease free, this stuff gives a tremendous hold. Only downside of any double sided tape is that you only get one chance at positioning the pieces.
> 
> There's a lighter weight Dual Lock available and can be had in clear in lieu of black.


But does No More Nails come apart when I next need to take the panel off to get at the lock mechanism - your experience with the number plate doesn't sound too good.

There are plenty of permanent solutions (such as fibreglassing it in place), but you can guarantee I'll need to take the panel off again at some point in the future.

Morph


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Morph - yes you can break the join with something like a small spatula. It's just that I couldn't get anything behind the number plate to release it as I'd put the tape in the middle of the plate.


This tape is also quite thick, 2mm?, so no thicker than Velcro tbh.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

It sounds as though Eurojohn is nearest to your solution, since he has had experience of two similar door problems.

But first I would suggest, that if the door manufacturers are still in business, to contact them and ask advice. If they do not have a solution. other than taking it back to them or flogging you a new door:wink2: at least ask to talk to the workshop manager/foreman as to what they use to stick it.

Anything you use to stick it requires a clean surface - not old adhesive/gung which has absorbed dirt/moisture/crud.

If it was Sikaflex, as suggested, then the best way to clean it is to take off gently the majority with a sharp blade till there is only a film left, then soak it in Acetone for a few minutes then take a slightly abrasive material, also soaked in acetone, and rub hard. I am assuming the surface is metal and not a plastic which could be damaged by such treatment.

Then use whatever you choose. But with your desire to re-access the same area in future, I would call Sikaflex and ask their advice - they have so many products and a good technical department. Their products are not the cheapest - but hey, if it gets you to where you want to be?

Geoff


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Hi morph, the Sikaflex I used was 221.
Amongst the three types of Velcro type material I tried was the 3M dual lock variety, my problem, as yours is getting the stuff to stick to the plastic, they do sell a super sticky one which I also tried only for it to fail a few weeks after installation.


.


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## delawaredandy (Oct 12, 2012)

Ok chaps this is my suggestion, most silicone based products will not stick to plastics due to their chemical make up. what you need is a product that is designed to stick upvc to upvc, if you get some velcro that does not have any double sided tape attached on either side to start with, then stick the two opposite halves to the corresponding surfaces with gutter sealant (geocel) available from most builders merchants, obviously try and remove as much of the existing silicone/bonding agent as possible beforehand.

I think you will find this sticks like s*** to the proverbial blanket. 

M


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

delawaredandy said:


> Ok chaps this is my suggestion, most silicone based products will not stick to plastics due to their chemical make up. what you need is a product that is designed to stick upvc to upvc, if you get some velcro that does not have any double sided tape attached on either side to start with, then stick the two opposite halves to the corresponding surfaces with gutter sealant (geocel) available from most builders merchants, obviously try and remove as much of the existing silicone/bonding agent as possible beforehand.
> 
> I think you will find this sticks like s*** to the proverbial blanket.
> 
> M


This sounds like an interesting idea. Might give it a try.

Morph


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'd go for the Dual lock stuff too, it really does grab it's opposing half, the adhesive too is very strong but needs a really sound smooth dust and grease free clean surface to stay put.

A pic of the problem might get my juices flowing.


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

There are a couple of Pics in the first post of this thread, Kev.

The lip round the edge on the door isn't very wide, and the corresponding face of the panel isn't flat - the Brown leather-effect curves right round the edge with the result that the velcro/whatever that you stick on that side ends up being recessed, which doesn't help it 'grap' the opposing side on the door.

Does Dual Lock grab from slightly further away than normal hook & loop-style fixings? That's certainly help.

I'm quite liking the idea of sticking non-sticky-backed Dual Lock on with Sikaflex / No nails (or similar), though I feel I need to do a better job of removing any remaining traces of silicone sealant.

Morph


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Morphology said:


> There are a couple of Pics in the first post of this thread, Kev.
> 
> The lip round the edge on the door isn't very wide, and the corresponding face of the panel isn't flat - the Brown leather-effect curves right round the edge with the result that the velcro/whatever that you stick on that side ends up being recessed, which doesn't help it 'grap' the opposing side on the door.
> 
> ...


Hmmph, missed them for some reason Morph  

Call me a bodger (cue Tuggs et al) my first thought was to simply screw it on, perhaps using either Mirror screws which have a chromed dome to cover the head, properly placed would look okay I think, maybe stainless dome headed screws.

Dual lock is thicker overall than std Velcro though, by a factor of about 3 see pic it's as thick as a £1 coin, so may be no good for this task.

I use it on the back of my S4 when I need a sat nav in the car, similar but smaller bit stuck to dash.










Ah you see a problem, me too, thread too far from head of screw, easy fix, get a some pieces of wood, about 2-3" long, and screw & stick them either side of where the panel screw will go, (measure twice drill once) drill a pilot hole for all the screws, especially the working screw so it won't split the wood, and call it done, with simple access later if needed.

It's not as elegant as it was built, but you know how that worked for you, I used some of those screws with the flat tops in my build to be different and they are good quality and are designed for cabinets, never seen them elsewhere though, so no one will know what they really are.

http://www.wholesaleglasscompany.co.uk/acatalog/Chrome-Flat-headed-Mirror-Screws.html

http://www.wholesaleglasscompany.co.uk/acatalog/Chrome-Dome-head-Mirror-Screws.html

I may think of something else later, but the flat ones seem a good fix to me.


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