# Type 2 diabetes



## Pudsey_Bear

Just diagnosed with type 2, oh what joy.

My number is 52, so just escaped drugs, but now my blood pressure is elevated and will need drugs for that.

I don't have a sweet tooth, but I do like sugar in my tea, and I'm partial to a sweet pudding etc, can't abide the taste of any of the sweeteners.

No doubt I'm far from being alone on this forum, so any tips of a common sense variety most welcome.


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## camallison

Join the club, Kev.

It's not just a case of keeping off (visible) sugar. I was on a low-fat diet and ate low-fat yoghurts with my breakfast. Then I looked at the labels, and found that they were very high in sugar!!!!

Best advice is lose weight (aim for a BMI way lower than 30) and get plenty of exercise. I have been on Metformin since 2008, coupled with a better diet, losing 25kg, and lots of exercise. Result is that it hasn't got any worse.

Type 2 diabetes can be a progressive condition if you don't take advice from the doc. My younger sister didn't, and now, after 8 years type 2 has to inject insulin.

Colin


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## bigbazza

You'll be amazed if you actually count the number of spoonfuls of suger you consume in a week.
Diagnosed about 4 years ago I now have sweeteners in my tea/coffee. I started to have breakfast every day (Never did this for over 50 years.)
I cut out the obvious things and ate sensibly, I lost 7 stone in a year and a half and although a stone has slipped back now I no longer take the drug Metformin which is usually given for treatment.
My last blood test showed my blood sugars as slightly over normal.

Unlike you Kev I have a sweet tooth and I have to be strict with myself.
Good luck with it.


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## gaspode

52??????? 8O 

Call yourself diabetic? :roll: 

I wish mine would come back as 52.


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## Westkirby01

My twin has type 2. When he comes and stay with us he loses weight and his sugar levels settle and all his aliments disappear. When he goes home everything goes wrong and he get ill. 

We have spent a lot of time looking at various options and have always favoured non invasive therapy. 

Believe it or not, this really works. We found the FAB diet by Rosemary Connley to be everything that is beneficial to a Diabetic. The book cost about £7 from the internet. The food options are excellent. We have never eaten so well and we feel very fit. 

If you want to talk PM me

Regards


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## p-c

Hi
Sorry to hear of your type 2. I am sure you will do well controlling it. As a type 1, for some 32 years, do not knock insulin. I can have a slice of my wife's gorgeous pavlova  and then increase my insulin to allow for it!  
Keep well
p-c


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## Jimblob44

I was diagnosed with type2 just over a year ago, I'm on metformin too but unfortunately, because I am overweight no doubt, I also have to inject twice a day with insulin. My blood sugar levels are regularly in the high twenties (they should be between 3 and 7) with the result I feel like crap most days and my joints seize up if I sit for more than 5 mins.
I have an appointment with the dietician soon but as a meat eating salad dodger (I cannot stand rabbit food) I am resigned to popping my clogs sooner rather than later  :? 
All I can recommend is that you listen to your quack and follow all instructions regarding your diet and medication, type 2, or late onset diabetes is easier to control overall than if you have type1.

I'll be happy if I can get at least one or two holidays in the MH :lol:


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## Kaytutt

I recently had a scare, went to the doc for antibiotics for infected sinus, he took my BP just because it hadn't been done for 8 years and nearly fell off his chair, it was 190/120. I was rapidly despatched to the hospital for blood tests to check kidney function, diabetes, cholesterol and other things plus had an ECG. Luckily they all came back clear but the BP is still high at 145/110 so I'm on meds for that.

I am overweight and don't do enough exercise, I currently have some very stressful situations in my personal life and a very demanding (desk based) job which can require long hours 

I don't want to remain on meds for life if I can help it so I've made some diet changes, I've deliberately cut my working hours and the dog is getting more walks and I've lost half a stone in a couple of weeks.

I really did expect to test positive for diabetes as my Grandmother and Aunt had it, I'm just so grateful I didn't.

Good luck with you lifestyle changes, you aren't alone :wink:


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## oldtart

Hi. I've just been diagnosed with borderline diabetes with a. Count of 44. I have to follow the diabetic eating plan in the hope that it won't develop into full-blown diabetes. 

My blood pressure and cholesterol are also too high!

So fingers crossed that if I follow the diet, eat well and exercise, which will be walking, I'll be ok. I have six months to sort it out!

Val


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## aldra

Kev

What about agave nectar

Low Gi organic sweetener plant based

I'm not sure how it is for diabetics you would need to check but it's much sweeter than sugar so you would only need a little

If you can't find it I've got a bottle and you are quite close

Aldra


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## salomon

Can someone tell me what these counts actually are ie 44 or 52 etc. I know glucose evels as nephew has been type 1 since birth.
Just curious. Sorry. And good luck with the management all of you.


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## gaspode

These figures are the HbA1c levels (long term averages) which are expressed in mmol/mol as opposed to the concentration of glucose in your blood at a single point in time, this is measured in mmol/l and is the figure presented by home testing devices.

Goodness knows why they do this, it just confuses everyone. :roll:


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## DrRoger

Hi,
I've been insulin-dependant diabetic for 50 years-so what do I know?!

My choice is low glucose index foods-wholemeal 8 seed bread, boiled potatoes with skins on, lots of fruit veg & salad. I avoid low-cal stuff like the plague-it's full of carbohydrate.

I use 'Map my walk' free app to measure dog-walks, gives you a weekly total that is encouraging. Also use a Philips Hot-Air Fryer so you can make the best, spiciest chips or wedges ever! You coat the chips/wedges in olive oil, toss with garlic, chili powder, herbes de Provence-whatever you fancy or dare risk! Then chuck 'em on the tray in the Fryer that cooks 'em with very hot air from the top-wonder-full, crispy & delicious with salmon or steak & lemon & balsamic vinegar (from Van Hage's).

I use Hermesetas as a tea sweetener & 'Totally Sweet' (made from xylitol that has less calories or carbohydrate than sugar) for sprinkling. 

I also use an Accu-Chek mobile to check my blood-sugar umpteen times per day & meditate to reduce my BP.

All a bit random but I hope some of that helps a bit.

All the best,

Roger


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## oldtart

Thank you Dr.Roger.

Aldra- the last time I bought agave nectar it was from Holland and Barrett. Actually, I'd forgotten about it! I used to have it on porridge. 

Val


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## olley

aldra said:


> Kev
> What about agave nectar
> 
> Low Gi organic sweetener plant based
> 
> I'm not sure how it is for diabetics you would need to check but it's much sweeter than sugar so you would only need a little
> 
> If you can't find it I've got a bottle and you are quite close
> 
> Aldra


Just googled that, seems to have some health risks.

_Potential Health Risks of Agave Syrup

Commercial agave syrups have received criticism from medical experts for their high fructose content. The fructose content of commercial agave syrups has been measured at between 59 and 90 percent, which is even more than high fructose corn syrup in its fructose content by weight (HFCS, by comparison averages 55% fructose content). [24]
Due to its high fructose levels, agave syrup has the potential to lead to insulin resistance and significantly increased triglyceride levels (a risk factor for heart disease). [3]
Also due to its high fructose levels, agave syrup has the potential to drive up uric acid levels. According to Dr. Joseph Mercola, "the connection between fructose, uric acid, hypertension, insulin resistance/diabetes and kidney disease is so clear that your uric acid level can be used as a marker for toxicity from fructose _

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave_nectar

Ian


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## Pudsey_Bear

I was wondering if it was worth getting one of the home blood sugar testers from Ebay, as it would give me an idea of where I am on a day to day basis rather than the six monthly blood test.

Does anyone else use one which they could recommend, or is not worth it?


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## aldra

Well that doesn't sound promising then :lol

Although other reviews disagree

My preference is manuka honey which I take in coffee other that that I dislike sweet things, but I'm not diabetic

I also dislike all artificial sweeteners, they leave a taste in my mouth and sugar seems not to agree with me so I never use it

ALdra


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## camallison

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I was wondering if it was worth getting one of the home blood sugar testers from Ebay, as it would give me an idea of where I am on a day to day basis rather than the six monthly blood test.
> 
> Does anyone else use one which they could recommend, or is not worth it?


I use one, but you need to be careful when you take a sample and what the result represents.

It is best to take a measurement 2 to 3 hours after a meal and stay constantly at that. For example, I take mine 2 to 3 hours after breakfast. It can vary between 4.2 and 6.2 for me, but averages out over a month or so at 5.2 or 5.3. The peaks and troughs are random, or so you think, but actually show if you are taking in too much sugar or sugar-producing food. Don't get hung up on individual readings, but learn from the peaks and troughs (if you can remember what you ate). My HbA1C from my annual check usually comes out at 5.8 or 6 and so they are happy, as am I. The difference between that and my measured average is that the bloods are from different sources and WILL be different.

Last of all, keep asking the questions, of us and of the healthcare professionals you visit. There is a wealth of information and experience out there.

Colin

PS - between 4 and 7 is considered healthy and normal.


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## Jimblob44

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I was wondering if it was worth getting one of the home blood sugar testers from Ebay, as it would give me an idea of where I am on a day to day basis rather than the six monthly blood test.
> 
> Does anyone else use one which they could recommend, or is not worth it?


I have to check my bloods three times daily and my diabetic clinic gave me two (one for house one for car, you have to check blood sugar level before a long journey), they are free if aquired through clinic and are very accurate, mine is the BGStar one and its easy to use but beware the cost of test strips, if not on prescription they can be quite pricey.
Jim.


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## bulawayolass

l am type 2 and last hba1c was in normal human range but forgotton what. 
l am on a low carb high fat diet. which is at last getting the recognition it deserves. I am out so will full post later but for now.

lf you go onto diabetes.co.uk into the forum some a***holes there one called douglas but look at the low carb high fat forum. At vivs modified atkins diet

As a diabetic you need to cut carbs in general as a carb is sugar. Look at food labels aim for 5grmcarb/100gproduct (look at carb not sugar)

l am a very low carber about 30grm a day. The general swing of people are from 20 to about 150grm carb a day. lgnore the nhs advice basically your bloods will be high and you will risk your health. 

Get a meter but dont buy it your diabetic nurse should supply but many do t. lf not approach the companys. l have an Abbot Healthcare Freedom Freestyle Lite. At the mo l am lucky my dn supplies strips but if not direct from abbot is about £15+p and p /50
You can get the SD Codefree amazon lot cheaper but lot bad reviews.

Sweet tooth avoid sweetners

post later


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## bulawayolass

On low carb high fat your body uses fat for energy not carbs. As a diabetic 2 your insulin stops the body reaching fat for energy so it stores it and uses carbs..then you get hungry eat more.
On lchf you use the fat for energy it is no longer stored and you will fing weight drops off...make sure you do gentle excercise to help it also assists insulin uptake.

l now never feel hungry between meals 2x scrambled eggs for breakfast fine till lunch.

Sweetners are being shown to cause suvar cravings and so why l said avoid it.
l eat chocolate lindt 90% 

Look for the book carbs n cals get full not pocket size not sure what the app is like.

Avoid all bread potatoes pasta rice flours refined foods. On lchf there is a reccomended bread can not remember name as l dont eat bread. And if rice have basmati brown

Your meter is your life and eat by that pre meal then 2hrs pist but can also do 1 hr. Keep a food diary so can see what spiked. lgnore the dn saying t2 dont need them or test 1x week. lt is you who will die a nasty slow death if screw up not them

back later


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## DrRoger

"Does anyone else use one which they could recommend, or is not worth it?"

Hi,

I use an Accuchek Mobile https://www.accu-chek.co.uk/gb/products/metersystems/index.html?product=mobile

This is the best I know of because it is small has a soft-clix finger pricker attached & the cassettes have 50 tests, plus you can link it to your PC (or a Mac running Windows, of course!!!) to trace patterns so you can spot what's doing what-exercise, food, stress & people.

I'm on 4 injections a day: 1 before each meal + a background long-acting insulin, so I can eat what I want anytime tho' choose to watch my weight etc.

I do a check before each meal so I can choose the right amount of insulin, before & after exercise & before, during & after driving. I do a little work as a psychotherapist & test before (to make sure I'm OK) & sometimes after 'cos with some clients my BS can drop by 4 in an hour!!! And it's time for a brazil nut cookie! Part of our 'emigrate' to France dream is a much healthier lifestyle for us both-eatin', drinkin', walkin' & swimmin' & freedom.

You won't need to test that much of course, but I firmly believe in being pro-active with healthcare. You do need to talk them into prescribing them 'cos the cost for 2 cassettes & 100 tests is £57!

If you want a chat-just pm me.

All the best,

Roger


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## Pudsey_Bear

That's possibly a bit over the top for me Roger, I was meaning the cheaper end as I'm not using insulin so day to day it's not life threatening for me, whereas for you it it most certainly is so need to be supremely accurate.

That and I'm a tight arse


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## DrRoger

Just a thought...I'm just as tight & with a chronic condition, + over 60, so prescriptions are free so I go for the best! 

I was 17 when diagnosed & had to do urine tests & carry a glass syringe in a metal cylinder with a spring at the bottom in surgical spirit to keep it sterile. You can imagine what a pain that was as a Rams Fan coming back on a Football Special after jumping up & down when we scored-that was only occasionally with it being Derby!!!

Believe you me, diabetes of any kind can have consequences-my choice is to go for the best with everything to do with my health.

Roger


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## biggles777

Had type 2 for 2 years , got the tester from doctor on NHS and got told off for not useing enough test strips . individual tests never go above 9 or below 5 and average on the 3 month test 6.5 . I found the answer was to eat breakfast and have food for lunch , because when busy at work used to skip lunch , that's not a good idea . Havent lost any weight tho' . 
I think a lot of it is just common sense and no excesses , and have never taken sugar in tea or coffee for 40 years .
Best of luck to everyone with it .


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## fatbuddha

my wife and I have worked in and around the in-vitro diagnostic industry for most of our careers - in fact my wife was part of a team that introduced the first simple accurate blood glucose systems to the UK back in the mid-70's - until then, all blood glucose testing was done in pathology labs - and we have seen a lot change over the years with blood glucose meters

in t'old days, it used to be a professional test done in hospitals; now its a consumer based market with patients able to buy meters and test at home. 

the perennial problem with diabetics of all types is control of their glucose levels. for type 1 patients, this is critical to avoid diabetic comas hence the need to test regularly - sadly many don't and suffer consequences.

for type 2 patients, it's not critical to test at all provided you control your diet properly and take drugs (if needed) as prescribed. however there has been a move in recent years to get type 2 patients to test for better control. 

the market for blood glucose meters has changed vastly in recent years - from the days when it was dominated by the big multinationals like Roche (Accuchek etc) , J&J (Lifescan), Abbott (Medisense) and Bayer, there is now a legion of suppliers - all do a good job, and newer ones are now cheap to buy. if you go to a major international medical device exhibition, you will find droves of companies from China, Korea, Taiwan etc selling these products to distributors. I have heard that a couple of the multinationals are looking to get out of this business as it has moved away from a professional market (which is where their expertise lies) to a commodity business where cheaper is better and they are losing market share.

if anyone is tempted to buy a blood glucose meter off e-bay, then stick to the big brand names as you know what you're buying. that's not to say other brands are bad, but unless you know who the company/supplier is, then I personally would be concerned about quality of product. the last thing anyone wants are misleading results.

and make sure you read the instructions on how to do a blood glucose test correctly - incorrectly will give poor results which could lead to poor control and the consequences thereof.

thankfully it's something that I hope to avoid so I watch my diet and exercise very frequently

type 2 diabetes - the scourge of modern society's bad diet and lack of exercise habits

good luck all


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## bulawayolass

Those were 2 of the stupidest comments and pig ignorant learn about type 2 it is a very complex disease obvously you read the daily mail

Testing IS needed so you know how your body is affected by food as l said YOU wont die of neuropathy renal failure pain ripping you arlpart shall l continue or eould you like to detract the type 2 dont need to test.

lf you want to help people l suggest you LEARN those 2 facts or zip it....yes l am furious


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## Zebedee

> bulawayolass said:- Those were 2 of the stupidest comments and pig ignorant learn about type 2 it is a very complex disease obvously you read the daily mail
> 
> Testing IS needed so you know how your body is affected by food as l said YOU wont die of neuropathy renal failure pain ripping you arlpart shall l continue or eould you like to detract the type 2 dont need to test.
> 
> lf you want to help people l suggest you LEARN those 2 facts or zip it....yes l am furious


That makes my doctor pretty stupid then, because she told me I need not test for Type 2.

In fact she said it is often counter productive because (obviously!) very few people other than medical specialists fully understand the whole picture - so their response to the readings is likely to be ill informed and inappropriate.

I presume you are a specialist??? :wink:

Dave :wink:


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## fatbuddha

bulawayolass said:


> Those were 2 of the stupidest comments and pig ignorant learn about type 2 it is a very complex disease obvously you read the daily mail
> 
> Testing IS needed so you know how your body is affected by food as l said YOU wont die of neuropathy renal failure pain ripping you arlpart shall l continue or eould you like to detract the type 2 dont need to test.
> 
> lf you want to help people l suggest you LEARN those 2 facts or zip it....yes l am furious


with the greatest of respect I will disagree with you. and to accuse me of reading the Daily Hate is below you...I wouldn't wipe my arse with that rag.

yes, diabetes is a complex disease but I said it's not critical to test - if you control your diet, weight and exercise regimes, type 2 diabetes is not a debilitating illness and provided you manage these well, then most sufferers will be manage well without problems.

I also said that control is a big problem amongst sufferers (of both types) and for those type 2 who are badly controlled then glucose testing is of great benefit - it's the badly controlled who will eventually develop kidney, eye, and vascular issues. the well controlled won't.

so can I suggest you wind your neck in and read what I wrote before pointing fingers


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## Pudsey_Bear

Thinking about accuracy in the Ebay ones, it is a number after all, so I assume so long as it reads the same number if it is the same sugar level then you are only comparing like for like, possibly checking your level as near to the time of a pukka blood test to have a benchmark, does that make sense, I'm more concerned about say taking 5 samples withing minutes and them all being different, as they should be identical, those ones would be a total waste of space.


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## fatbuddha

> Thinking about accuracy in the Ebay ones, it is a number after all, so I assume so long as it reads the same number if it is the same sugar level then you are only comparing like for like, possibly checking your level as near to the time of a pukka blood test to have a benchmark, does that make sense, I'm more concerned about say taking 5 samples withing minutes and them all being different, as they should be identical, those ones would be a total waste of space.


don't confuse accuracy and precision. accuracy is the test result versus a gold standard method. precision is the consistency of producing the same result each time (under the same conditions)

what you should be aiming for is both accuracy and precision - a good meter should give both; a bad one may give neither. and yes to an extent you can have inaccuracy if the precision is good - but if it's way out of accuracy that can be dangerous, especially with a blood test where small margins of error can be harmful.


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## Pudsey_Bear

fatbuddha said:


> Thinking about accuracy in the Ebay ones, it is a number after all, so I assume so long as it reads the same number if it is the same sugar level then you are only comparing like for like, possibly checking your level as near to the time of a pukka blood test to have a benchmark, does that make sense, I'm more concerned about say taking 5 samples withing minutes and them all being different, as they should be identical, those ones would be a total waste of space.
> 
> 
> 
> don't confuse accuracy and precision. accuracy is the test result versus a gold standard method. precision is the consistency of producing the same result each time (under the same conditions)
> 
> what you should be aiming for is both accuracy and precision - a good meter should give both; a bad one may give neither. and yes to an extent you can have inaccuracy if the precision is good - but if it's way out of accuracy that can be dangerous, especially with a blood test where small margins of error can be harmful.
Click to expand...

Yup, spot on, got me works in a twist  , I meant precision, hence if I tested myself when I got my pukka blood test, I'd have a known value eventually, and so long as it was getting lower or staying fairly level once I got the levels down wouldn't that be good enough for random testing, as I can't see my quack prescribing a propriatory one.


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## Zebedee

> Kev_n_Liz said:- . . . I assume so long as it reads the same number if it is the same sugar level then you are only comparing like for like . . .


Hi Kev

To quote my stupid and pig ignorant doctor again, that was precisely her advice about my blood pressure monitor.

She said, _"The precise accuracy is (relatively) unimportant. It's the comparison between readings which matters, and if they deviate seriously from what is the "norm" on your gadget, then it has done its job in alerting you, and sending you up to see me without delay!"_

Dave 

P.S. She did stress "relatively". Obviously the readings must be fairly accurate, but +/- a couple of points is neither here nor there for blood pressure.


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## fatbuddha

> I meant precision, hence if I tested myself when I got my pukka blood test, I'd have a known value eventually, and so long as it was getting lower or staying fairly level once I got the levels down wouldn't that be good enough for random testing, as I can't see my quack prescribing a propriatory one


Zebedee's quack is about right and backs up what I wrote - you can live with a certain amount of inaccuracy in a blood glucose test, provided you are roughly in a ball park figure with the hospital test, and provided you get consistency of result. provided you have a good testing regime and do the test correctly each time (you'd be amazed at the balls that even so called professionals can make here) then you should be fine.

buy the best meter you can for best results. any of the big brand names make good meters with very little to choose between them. Roche is still probably the market leader.


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## rugbyken

I have several family members with type 1 and even more with type2 I put a few stone on when I stopped smoking 14 yrs ago and zoomed up into the 20stone bracket within 6 months my toe nails turned black and a young doctor went straight for a type2 diagnosis , it took 3 years to get a good balance I am back down within a stone of my old weight and only have to see the diabetes nurse every 6 months ,she said she would be very pleased if I wasn't diabetic but since I am my no's still have to come down, my wife as an ex nurse still checks my bp and blood sugars monthly and more frequently if my no's are bad , 
I agree with the OP most sweeteners are foul but personally I find Canderel work for me their quite dear in comparison at a penny each but since I struggled to tell the difference between tea with sugar and these (when my wife tested me I failed miserably ) can't argue that they work for me , 
Can always tell when I am out of balance, a couple of weeks ago had that nostrovirus couldn't hold anything down for a week so no tablets took about three days of tablet taking to get back,


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## Pudsey_Bear

I'm using the tate and lyle half spoon stuff right now, but only because I bought it yonks ago by accident, when it's gone it's gone, but it's a step down from the pure stuff, just a 1/4 of a spoon is enough for a cup of tea.


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## Zebedee

I would seriously suggest giving up sugar altogether in tea and coffee.

Remember the sugar shortage many years ago?

My congenital stinginess wouldn't allow me to pay the 3 pence extra that cafes were demanding for sugar, so we both gave it up completely in a dignified huff! :roll: _(I also got a savage pleasure from deducting 3 pence from the cost of a cuppa, and handing back the sachet of sugar!)_

We very soon got used to it, and ever since then we do not like sweet tea or coffee. I would manage to drink it if the Queen (or Michelle Pfeiffer) ever invite me for a cuppa, but otherwise yeeuuukkkk!!

Dave 

P.S. Add up the number of cuppas per day with a couple of spoons of sugar in each, and it's amazing how much you consume.


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## philoaks

> I would seriously suggest giving up sugar altogether in tea and coffee.


I'm with Dave on this one. I gave up sugar in drinks some years back and it did take me a couple of months to get used to it. Nowadays I can't stand the taste of it if someone adds it without asking.

The other advantage (IMO) is that your palate will adjust and you will find you need less sweetness in other food too.


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## bulawayolass

Actually l call any dr dietician and dn or other member of the nhs criminally responsible for all deterioration of every t2 they treat if they tell them
that they should not test before and 2hrs post every meal. And for whatever other reason they feel the need to test.

Cost is the only reason the criminal excuses are used. You do not know safe food..those that keep bs low. What is to be avoided. If you go high drink lot water and do excercise to bring blood sugar down.
The boss of nhs england is type 2 he gets enough test strips to test 4times a day and has credited in speeches as helping him keep control of his diabetes.. normal humans if lucky as t2 not on insulin have to fight for a pot of strips/month.

Oh and strips have +/-15 to 20% varyation but still close enough to save your life.

lf you never test or test once a week l will gaurintee you will deteriorate the same will happen if you follow nhs eating plans. 3 month blood tests are to late the damage is done if you do not know what is causing the highs you will continue.

l hold the same criminal comments for the same people who push the filth that the nhs calls a suitable diet and also hold them responsible for all deterioration in their "patients" and for all the obesity caused by said diet

And l am happy to tell them all of the above below and more to their faces.

The commons health committee has just reported that nhs diabetes care is appaling.

Sweden has finally adopted lchf for diabetics and the obese. USA is starting to change and by a huge shock duk at their confrence discussion this last weekend the lchf won the discussion.

lt does not mean you sit and chew lumps of fat l have an excellent diet the big thing is l have barely any carbs and my body gets it energy from my body fat and any fat in my diet the 30g of carbs do not go far.
l have just had roast lamb, brussel sprouts, broccoli and a dolop of helmanns full fat mayo. 

lf you have a health problem such as gall bladder that means fat is a problem then yes you need a different diet. But still huge cutting down on daily carbs.
Ok dont want to do lchf follow different eating plans but you need to cut hugely on your carbs but nhs still push sugar and people do not understand a carbohydrate is sugar. They think of sugar in coffee type sugar. 

l stand by the anger at the you are fat brought it on yourself you deserve it yadda yadda. T2 is being shown to be hugely complex problem. Many people inherit the genetics for it. 
Night work has often been implicated in many major health problems and proof of nightwork just confirmed.
Immune systems are compromised again ongoing work there but known.
Diet...the nhs diet the so called food prymid we are pushed to follow is upside down. If it was the correct way obesity would be rare. And peopke going pre to full t2 would be vastly different to what it is.
That is not an about face people who are prone to t2 eat what passes for nhs diet and it is so high it tips them into t2.

For me l am adopted so genetics unknown.
11 yrs night work
Husbands passing that caused collapse of immune system standard major problem for those who loose a family member usually unexpectedly.


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## aldra

Kev

Get on with it

You don't need sugar in tea

Do without it for a few days, finished

Ok I'm grumpy, day two of veg juice fast, only 38 to go :lol: :lol: 

Sometimes it's just about taking control

So you match me, I won't eat other than raw juiced fruit and veg for the 40 days of lent

You will take no sugar hidden or otherwise

Agreed??.

Love

Aldra


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## JackieP

As others have said, please do not underestimate the importance of diet. 

I have autoimmune disease - Hashimotos, Lupus, osteoarthritis and osteoporosis. The last few years have seen me strive towards keeping other autoimmune conditions at bay. 

Last year, sadly, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and my doctor was concerned that autoimmune diabetes (type 1) was not far away. 

I decided to take drastic action and embarked upon a very strict elimination diet. It was initially to help,with my autoimmune diseases but my doctor also had faith that it might help with my diabetes. 

I ate high quality meat, fish, green veg and not much else in the beginning. No gluten, grains, dairy, caffeine, alcohol, nightshade vegetables (potatoes, peppers, chillies, tobacco) and no sugar - not even the fructose in fruit. 

It wasn't easy at first and I shed a few tears but after a couple of weeks it got easier and after a month it became a way of life. I did it for three months before slowly reintroducing foods. 

At the end of the three months I had blood tests and my diabetes had gone and my blood glucose levels and insulin response was all normal. Even better was that for the first time in years my thyroid medication was reduced. It's been reduced for two months now and I'm still feeling as well as I was before. 

If you're interested in reading more, I followed the Whole30 plan. The book is available on Amazon but there's loads of stuff about it on the web. 

All the best on your healing journey.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

aldra said:


> Kev
> 
> Get on with it
> 
> You don't need sugar in tea
> 
> Do without it for a few days, finished
> 
> Ok I'm grumpy, day two of veg juice fast, only 38 to go :lol: :lol:
> 
> Sometimes it's just about taking control
> 
> So you match me, I won't eat other than raw juiced fruit and veg for the 40 days of lent
> 
> You will take no sugar hidden or otherwise
> 
> Agreed??.
> 
> Love
> 
> Aldra


With respect Sandra, why on earth would I want to do that? it sounds like another ridiculous and possibly dangerous diet, put about by some know nothing celebrity.

Goog idea or not


----------



## bulawayolass

As a diabetic juice and mash shouldnt be used as the sugars are already released and will spike you but l think Aldra meant she will do her thing you will give up sugar and sweetners and by end of lent you wony miss sweet things


----------



## Zebedee

> Aldra said:- . . . I won't eat other than raw juiced fruit and veg for the 40 days of lent
> You will take no sugar hidden or otherwise
> Agreed??.


Well, no I'm afraid not.

You are saying there's no sugar in fruit and vegetables, which is patently not the case. Why is sugar beet called "sugar beet"? :roll:

Sorry Sandra, that sort of misinformation is lulling you into a completely false sense of security - and the diet you describe could even be medically very dangerous for some people.

Dave


----------



## aldra

No you misunderstand

I never invite anyone to fast, that is my choice I've fasted for years during lent and I am still here in reasonable health at 70

I invited Kev to forgo sugar for the 40 days hidden or otherwise by which time he will have curbed his sweet tooth

Fasting is not a fad diet, it's not for everyone but it's been done by millions throughout the centuries

I don't invite peoples comments on fasting neither do I advocate it for others. It's about far more than forgoing food and requires care to ensure the right balance of fruit and vegetables are consumed and self control

Just wanted to clear that up

Guess we will all get the usual religious debate flowing from that too

So for the record" May your God or gods go with you :lol:  "

Aldra


----------



## JackieP

I limit myself to 17grams of sugar a day. I rarely eat fruit any more but will have some berries when they're at their best. 17grams doesn't go that far. By the time you've had salad and an assortment of veggies that's just about it. 

It sounds draconian but I've never felt better and I have no cravings for sugar whatsoever. A friend' was tucking into a bar of cadburys dairy milk the other day and when she she'd finished I asked to sniff the wrapper (yes, I am weird) to see if I still thought the smell of chocolate was as good as I used to think it was. Honestly, hand on heart, all I could smell was fat and chemicals. And I used to eat cadburys dairy milk a LOT a thought it was delicious. 

It just a question of re training. It can be done and the benefits are amazing - whether you have diabetes or not!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

aldra said:


> No you misunderstand
> 
> I never invite anyone to fast, that is my choice I've fasted for years during lent and I am still here in reasonable health at 70
> 
> I invited Kev to forgo sugar for the 40 days hidden or otherwise by which time he will have curbed his sweet tooth
> 
> Fasting is not a fad diet, it's not for everyone but it's been done by millions throughout the centuries
> 
> I don't invite peoples comments on fasting neither do I advocate it for others. It's about far more than forgoing food and requires care to ensure the right balance of fruit and vegetables are consumed and self control
> 
> Just wanted to clear that up
> 
> Guess we will all get the usual religious debate flowing from that too
> 
> So for the record" May your God or gods go with you :lol:  "
> 
> Aldra


Ah I see I see, it was a bit veiled I'm afraid, so apologies for getting it wrong :roll: again as for religion, I found that easier to give up, but each to their own god.


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Sandra

Glad you have clarified, but don't delude yourself. You say you never invite anyone to fast, but simply by posting on here you are doing just that to some readers. _(Not that I'm suggesting you shouldn't do so, but please be aware that some folk genuinely think that if they read it on the internet it is certain to be true!! In an earlier life, part of my job was to teach people how to discriminate between the 95% rubbish on the web, and the 5% pure gold! )_



> JackieP said:- As others have said, please do not underestimate the importance of diet.


Who could possibly disagree there Jackie. "_We are what we eat_" has to be one of the most fundamental truths of all.

Maybe we should add a caveat . . . _"but don't imagine that diet can ever be the universal panacea for *all *ills."_

That's where I fall out with a lot of the extreme mis- and dis-information posted on the web by (some) apparently eminent American doctors. They do have a tendency to advocate "snake oil" remedies, and at best it creates confusion, and at worst it can be positively bloody dangerous!!

Just a thought.

Dave


----------



## aldra

Zeb

Just by living you are inviting someone somewhere to do something

Diet is not a universal panacea for all ills

But it certainly can be a forerunner to many illnesses and type 2 diabetes is one that often goes hand in hand with obesity and poor dietary habits although clearly not in every case

But the numbers of people suffering from Type 2 diabetes is rising at a rapid rate as is the rise of fast food and hidden calories and obesity

It's something everyone needs to think about

Aldra


----------



## Zebedee

> Aldra said:- It's something everyone needs to think about. Aldra


Too true.

I had the blood tests only yesterday. Borderline Type 2 just before Christmas, so I may well be thinking *very *seriously when the results come back! 8O

Dave

P.S. I've just done a post for you on the Aldi thread.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

aldra said:


> But the numbers of people suffering from Type 2 diabetes is rising at a rapid rate as is the rise of fast food and hidden calories and obesity
> 
> It's something everyone needs to think about
> 
> Aldra


My Doc said eat fruit by all means, but remember it still contains sugar, just in a difference form and too much is still bad for me, I have a couple of apples and a orange every day, plus the odd carrot, and of course mealtime veg.


----------



## aldra

Kev, I would worry about biscuits, cakes, takeaways, neat sugar poor quality chocolate etc before worrying about fruit

I heard on the radio a Chinese takeaway contains about 3 times the advised daily sugar allowance

Now those are hidden sugar calories :lol: 

ALdra


----------



## aldra

Talking of well balanced diets

Just spoken to my grand-daughter and asked what she was having for tea
She's a Uni student 

A tin of ravioli on toast, it's all the food I have she said

Money transferred instantly with instructions to go food shopping :lol: :lol: 

And buy some fruit and veg whilst you are at it

Me I'm having juiced kale, carrot, beet and green apple, a steak would be nice though

I doubt anyone would be tempted to fast on my example, most don't get beyond day 1 :lol: 

Aldra


----------



## DrRoger

Hi Kev,

Wondering if you're thinking 'Wish I'd never asked' with all the information given.

Me I'm 'be-wildered'-story of my life! I quite like it.

I've made an appointment with my GP to discuss what appears to be the wonder-full low-carb diet. Won't do 'ote without weighing the evidence.

All the best,

Roger


----------



## bulawayolass

Your dr will tell you not to low carb like a parrot lot of carb...NHS are criminal.
My advice stands go onto diabetes.co.uk and click up the top on forum. Lot of help and advice and you will find what l have and echoed by thousands of people re nhs advice.

With regards the fruit fraid you will find oranges will kick your sugar up. and advice is a small apple if to have different times of day. 
Rule of thumb. Berrys and uk fruit are ok avoid imported fruit and melons and bananas. 
Dark veg and white are good but yellow and orange be careful and peas are also carby.

And before people say bananas are good for you not as a diabetic unless you checked your blood and find they are ok for you or eat them pre workout.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> Hi Kev,
> 
> Wondering if you're thinking 'Wish I'd never asked' with all the information given.
> 
> Me I'm 'be-wildered'-story of my life! I quite like it.
> 
> I've made an appointment with my GP to discuss what appears to be the wonder-full low-carb diet. Won't do 'ote without weighing the evidence.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Roger


Oh yes, but Liz goes through it all to sort the wheat from the chaff, I'm just a bewilderbeast :roll:


----------



## bulawayolass

This article may be of interest to Liz and others. I hope the tide is finally turning away from the nhs "guidelines"

It explains that the cholesterol present guidelines are flawed and made worse by the diet the nhs suggests.

And it moves away from carbs to s/fats as carbs are dangerous and are responsible for the problems that are about today

openheart.bmj.com/content/1/1/e000032.full

And this
www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340?i...6c98a5346b2bf650cf30a521&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Kev do not read it is only going to confuse you more :lol:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

The problem seems to be sugar, or too much of it (what's the real GDS on it) don't eat/drink it and you'll not have a problem, seems very logical to me, but it's hidden in so many different places.

I'm not likely to dismiss the NHS advice lightly as it's based on a lot of research done by people who know a damned site more about the underlying mechanics than anyone on this forum, practical advice is all we should be giving unless it's backed up by a relevant qualification, as the wrong advice could lead to some serious consequences, spouting from a website on health matters is almost as bad unless you fully understand every word read, and that every word was read and not cherry picked.


I don't wish to put people off giving myself or others advice, but unless you're a doctor, practical advice should really be the limit, or personal experiences, equipment etc.


----------



## Zebedee

Have to agree with you 100% Kev.

Just because someone has posted it on the internet doesn't mean it's "gospel". Specially if they have an axe to grind, which is often the case.

Dave


----------



## bulawayolass

Up to you if you want to believe nhs personally you know my feelings but l keep saying look at

www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/

And the last 2 links l posted up last post there are peer reviewed journals

Grain Brain (book buy on amazon or kindle) is a neurologist nutritionist

www.dietdoctor.com/lchf is a Swedish dr (and apparently very good and quick to answer questions) and Sweden now as l say recommend lchf usa going that way and there is the vague hope uk will get fingers out their arses and do the same being as it is their advice that has caused the health problems. l am waiting to see someone sue the nhs for their criminal advice.


----------



## Zebedee

> bulawayolass said:- . . . l keep saying look at www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/


OK - but why would we think we can trust the opinions and advice of the people who post on that forum . . . any more than we can believe every word written on here about motorhomes??? :roll:

Dave


----------



## dragoon

bulawayolas,


The problems around to day ?

In years gone by we ate seasonal fruit, but modern living leaves us able to eat fruit all year and indeed we are told to !

It contains fructose (fruit sugar) but that cant be used by the body for anything and goes directly to the liver before excretion, but not before a liver full of fruit sugar has let the body know any other sugars that can be utilised should be stored or used. There are some nice pictures of fatty livers as a part result !

The problems around today are not carb specific, but more likely a combination of both sugars as above causing fat storage.

So they say !


----------



## bulawayolass

What l didn't realise and the vast majority don't is that carbohydrate/carb is actually just the scientific name for sugar so yes you are right and wrong in one if you see what l mean it is sugar and carb because they are one and the same. 
And starch is also sugar again the majority of people don't realise that

Dave you don't have to but if you want control then go to people who do it every day and l have also put up "proper" medical links" for those who want drs and this below is from a dr on the forum

www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-diet-in-general-practice-new-research-coming-soon.53261/

this is by a GP who has just done a small scale trial waiting for publication and also had it read at the diabetes.org (gov mouthpiece) conference last week

Right work bye


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

Did anyone watch the BBC Horizon Fat V Sugar twins, that was an education, just tried to find it on Youtube, but it only has short bits, not the full programme.


----------



## Zebedee

Yes Kev, we watched it.

They were very highly qualified doctors, well experienced in research projects, and they freely admitted that they were surprised by the results . . . and did not fully understand the implications.

So what's the point of slavishly following the advice of other self-promoting medical experts on the web, many of whom are American - with their seemingly inbuilt compulsion to discover only what they are looking for!! :roll: 

Dave


----------



## DrRoger

Morning Kevin & Dave & Bulawayolass.

Just to be clear my doctorate is a doctorate in humanistic & integrative psychotherapy practice-not medicine. However, I do know how to question research 'evidence'.

I am a do-it-yourselfer (not with motorhomes!) but with my health-my choice is to be pro-active. As a 'philosophy' I tend to sniff whatever is offered, taste a bit & if it's good, chew it over & swallow it if it's nourishing or throw it or spit it out if it's poisonous for me. I am a sceptic & a cynic!

As an overweight, hypertensive, well controlled *Type* 1 diabetic for 50 years I'll look at anything that may lower BP & help me lose weight.

I [/i]have made an appointment with my GP, who is great, to discuss a Low-Carb diet for me. I've joined the Diabetes Forum that is 'interesting'.

Have cut out my morning toast, have half a wrap for lunch & less spuds/low fat wedges for tea &, of course less insulin. Gave myself just 2 units for Sat morning muesli, BS was fine before, during (tested it in the field with my 'emergency cookies' at the ready!) & after dog walk. However, BS then shot up to 12 pre-lunch. Stayed high until tea time & I felt dog-rough. Got loads of exercise until tea, felt achilles tendon & a twinge from my old plantar fascitis, & still had high BS!

Spoke to my daughter who said feeling rough was part of her Atkins experience & to drink lots of water & I did.

After adjusting insulin yesterday, control was better & I felt OK, have lost a little weight already & will check BP today.

For Kevin, I think what you wrote was spot on. My only 'however' is to encourage you to take good care of your-self & be-aware of the consequences of lack of diabetes care.

All the best,

Roger


----------



## DrRoger

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Did anyone watch the BBC Horizon Fat V Sugar twins, that was an education, just tried to find it on Youtube, but it only has short bits, not the full programme.


Thanks Kev,

Here's the rest of it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03t8r4h/sign/Horizon_20132014_Sugar_v_Fat/

Only seen the bike-race bit & I thought 'It's good television'. That's my slightly cynical take. My wife & I will be on a new BBC series Escape to the Country_ soon. And from being on that we know so much is staged to make 'good television'.

BW,

Roger_


----------



## bulawayolass

Watched it with skeptism it deserved l do not eat faas everyone assumes l cgew on slabs of the stuff t l would wager my diet is more balanced than yours. l think the word fat makes people think we chew on slabs of fat it isnt l eat a modified Atkins 

The comments on dbuk sum it up about the programme which was made for tv was a load of garbage for the gulable. And people on the forum work with things like the fat measure were furious as it doesnt do that. Proper tests were not carried out. What they ate bears no resemblance to what l and other lchf eaters have.
lt was a made for tv falsehood.

The result was people who would benefit and know no better other than it was in tv so it must be true will not go onto correct diets and for people like diabetics who need to take control because no one else will are going to suffer very nasty nhs deaths

lnteresting l put up peer revied journals neurologists nutricionists and drs and am told l am stupid for believing the internet and for following an eating plan that has my bg numbers in normal range my blood pressure has gone down my weight is falling off and l am fitter.

Tv show a programme with no proper scientific basis false info given and it must be true...pass on trying to help.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone watch the BBC Horizon Fat V Sugar twins, that was an education, just tried to find it on Youtube, but it only has short bits, not the full programme.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Kev,
> 
> Here's the rest of it:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03t8r4h/sign/Horizon_20132014_Sugar_v_Fat/
> 
> Only seen the bike-race bit & I thought 'It's good television'. That's my slightly cynical take. My wife & I will be on a new BBC series Escape to the Country_ soon. And from being on that we know so much is staged to make 'good television'.
> 
> BW,
> 
> Roger_
Click to expand...

_

A STAR IS BORN Heh Heh, let us know date it's aired as we sometimes tape that, you and twenty past one should form a club (1320) I couldn't do TV, way too shy._


----------



## DrRoger

Hi Kev,
Got the name wrong, should have been Escape to the Continent & includes I think France, Spain, Croatia etc.. Will let you know when it's on. It was good fun-they flew us out to Toulouse & we stayed at Albi that we know & love. Mrs Roger loves Toulouse Lautrec & his museum is amazing-'course me & the dog had to wait outside so we don't know!!!

They showed us 4 amazing properties-as we drove to the first one there were overhanging trees & I was thinking if did go for this there would have to be major tree surgery to avoid dents in the roof of Hettie the Hymer! 

"Not about estate agency, it is about Good Television" said the producer. So with The Voice & loadsa stuff 'good television is our comment.

Roger


----------



## DrRoger

"l would wager my diet is more balanced than yours"

On what basis can you say that, given you do not know me or my biography or my insulin-regime or my diet?

You seem passionate about what you say but your personal wisdom does not 'fit' for me.

To be really clear, few things get up my nose more than those who are not insulin-dependant talking to me about what I should or should not eat. I do have 50 years experience of managing my diabetes & have to be very care-full. For example, an accident when driving with a low blood-sugar can result in a ban for driving under the influence. Not that Kev needs to worry about that, as far as I know.

I also reckon that too much info can be very confusing=not good!

In peace & with well-wishes.

Roger


----------



## bulawayolass

l was talking about the people who gave the impression that l was on a quack diet that because the gods called nhs dont advise was a thing to avoid. I got mocked for giving sources but a tv prog. which did not do a proper lchf got praised.
And also l was saying just how bad the nhs diet was and l await full discreditation as the walls are crumbling on it.

Advice l also keep saying go on dbuk and read it. yes you can low gi but as someone there has said even low gi you end up lower carbing. And l also said if was just a diabetic other combined health problems need different approaches but still needs carbs dropped.

Type 1 have their own diet regime which l dont know nor do l try to particulay try as you/they inj and bolus etc and unles l deteriorated and ended up as t2 on inj is imaterial to me. And even then l havent the foggiest how a t1 diet would apply. Other than a lot of t1 on the forum lc to some degree but not like a t2

And no t2 dont usually face hypos from what l understand if we are on metformin....although there is some discussion on that but l think those on other meds can but again l am on met. so the rest is background to me.

I shall avoid trying to help on this thread...but if you are on the forum as you say go read kevs original thread Terminal and Scared and call me a fool or a liar. I hate to see others like that so yes l am passonate but l have decided l shall say nothing in future that people need to learn when the tingling starts.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> "l would wager my diet is more balanced than yours"
> 
> On what basis can you say that, given you do not know me or my biography or my insulin-regime or my diet?
> 
> You seem passionate about what you say but your personal wisdom does not 'fit' for me.
> 
> To be really clear, few things get up my nose more than those who are not insulin-dependant talking to me about what I should or should not eat. I do have 50 years experience of managing my diabetes & have to be very care-full. For example, an accident when driving with a low blood-sugar can result in a ban for driving under the influence. Not that Kev needs to worry about that, as far as I know.
> 
> I also reckon that too much info can be very confusing=not good!
> 
> In peace & with well-wishes.
> 
> Roger


Re low blood sugar, I kept telling my doctor that sometimes if I've been really busy and not stopped for a brew and biccy that I felt very shaky and had to sit down before I fell down, but if I had the tiniest of snacks I fell a whole lot better, he said that was normal and nothing to worry about, but took blood test to be sure, but surely that blood test would only be of any use if I was actually in one of these periods, not days/weeks later.

Just asking?

And no Roger spot on no way I would drive like that, I don't think I could actually, I'll pull over if I'm feeling even slightly drowsy, as a courier I saw way too many accidents due to illness and tiredness.


----------



## fatbuddha

> Re low blood sugar, I kept telling my doctor that sometimes if I've been really busy and not stopped for a brew and biccy that I felt very shaky and had to sit down before I fell down, but if I had the tiniest of snacks I fell a whole lot better, he said that was normal and nothing to worry about, but took blood test to be sure, but surely that blood test would only be of any use if I was actually in one of these periods, not days/weeks later.


that scenario is not uncommon amongst sportspeople who have either trained or competed hard, not refuelled adequately and then later on get the hypoglycaemia shakes and sweats. yet they are not diabetic - just that they're suffered from a glucose crash. I've had it myself on a couple of occasions and - as you found - a snack sorts it out. and it's not very nice when it happens as unless you know what has caused it, it can be worrying.

a blood test some time after the event is of very little use as a glucose test is a "snapshot in time". I suspect the GP is trying to reassure you by doing something that maybe seen as proactive rather than sending you away with words of advice that should suffice.


----------



## DrRoger

Hi Kev,

The blood-sugar test from a machine is at that moment. Hence my saying about testing half-way through the dog-walk with cookies, just in case. The Hb thingies give you an average over a period of months.

So you're right only a blood-test at the time of the business is relevant. As I said if you can get Accuchek Mobile prescribed that's quicker & easier than anything else-soft-clix doofer to get your blood-drop+a few seconds to get a fresh test bit on the cassette-done & dusted in about 5 seconds. Easy to do when you are driving (stopped at lights-your worship!)-mine lives in the door pocket.

Roger


----------



## aldra

It's not easy

But I think the first thing to do is reduce weight to the normal range

Then look at keeping it there within the constraints of dietary constrictions be they diabetic or whatever

We all have something we need to sort

Mine is white wine, I love it and as I get older the less time it has to get me

If I can just manage the next ten years :lol: :lol: 

I've cracked it

Aldra


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone watch the BBC Horizon Fat V Sugar twins, that was an education, just tried to find it on Youtube, but it only has short bits, not the full programme.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Kev,
> 
> Here's the rest of it:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03t8r4h/sign/Horizon_20132014_Sugar_v_Fat/
> 
> Only seen the bike-race bit & I thought 'It's good television'. That's my slightly cynical take. My wife & I will be on a new BBC series Escape to the Country_ soon. And from being on that we know so much is staged to make 'good television'.
> 
> BW,
> 
> Roger_
Click to expand...

_

Odd Roger, that Iplayer link says it was first broadcast 7th March 2014, but we watched it last year._


----------



## DrRoger

Never noticed that.

Maybe to raise a smile. When I became diabetic I was admitted as an emergency-from a rugby playing fit 17 year old I had become 7 stone & dehydrated & was rough.

It was an upward learning curve-the ward orderly brought my porridge-offered me sugar-'No I'm not allowed that'-glucose?-'guess that's OK'. Oops blood-sugar through the roof!

One positive was that I missed the mock O levels & was soon back to playing left-prop with special shorts & inside pocket containing sugar lumps for when I got low blood sugary after all the running!

Remember the nurse showing me how to do my injections practising on an orange-dead easy could have done that all day-no probs. BUT when it was me & she said that will be as easy as shaving one day-complete disbelief from me! I looked up carbohydrate values when in hospital & asked my mum to get me some cow-kale off the market 'cos it was CHO-free & could eat pounds of it without a BS spike. I was SO hungry!
Never hungry since though.

By way of encouragement, your Type 2 should be much easier to sort out. Please do not ignore it 'cos there can be 'orrible consequences
Here's a link to Diabetes UK http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Type-2-diabetes/ who are a good source of help & information. They are not 'on a mission' as perhaps some Diabetic Forum members are.

My own 'story' is that by not having toast, having half a wrap & less spuds I'm below 14 stone (only by 1.8 pounds!!!) for the first time since Christmas. Blood-sugars have been good other than a mysterious spike this morning. Dog walk/run will sort that!

Sorry to have waffled on. If you pm me I'm happy to ring you for a chat-I have a varied work-history: trainee accountant, qualified male-nurse, fish n' chip fryer, welfare officer, counsellor/psychotherapist & probably general know-all!!! The last was a joke 'cos if I don't know I'll say so.

All the best,

Roger

As a PS I found on iBooks (Mac-specific) this free book, here's a link http://www.smashwords.com/books/search?query=my+low-carb+story

It's free tho' I'm not sure how you get it.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

It's starting to get through to me, we still have a lot of sugary food to get rid of, so slowly eating it in moderation, then once gone no more except as a possible treat.

Question

Do slim people get diabetes of any kind, as all the ones I know tend to be salad dodgers  

Hope I don't offend any sufferers on here with that question, if I do, STEP AWAY FROM THE FRIDGE


----------



## fatbuddha

> Do slim people get diabetes of any kind, as all the ones I know tend to be salad dodgers


yes they do. Type 2 diabetes is usually stereotyped as being an illness of the overweight, the old, and the unhealthy and yes, to an extent that is true - increasing levels of obesity have contributed to an increase in diagnosis. but it can also affect the young, the fit and the slim in varying degrees.

it's complex disease and the full factors behind it's onset are not entirely known - it's known what the effects are and often why, but the reasons behind someone developing it is unclear. I guess the same can be said of many diseases - some smokers get lung cancer, others don't but why that is often unknown.

the growth in the understanding of genetic factors underlying certain diseases is getting better all the time and eventually we may all know (if we want I guess) what suspect genes we have and what diseases they may lead to, so treatment can start before any disease manifests itself. but we still have a very long way to go on this and the emphasis will be on the clearly definable diseases with a genetic cause, whereas those that have multifactorial origins (lifestyle, genes, environmental etc) will take a lot longer.

for many that presents a scary Brave New World dystopic view of the future - for scientists, it's fascinating.


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## Pudsey_Bear

It's just occurred to me that when I go to the docs for the blood test I usually go for the first appointment of the day, so I can get off or whatever, but I will have just had 2 cups of tea with sugar, and also so weetabix with sugar, surely this will greatly affect the blood test as blood sugar seems to rise and fall quite rapidly.

I did have a fasting blood test some time ago which came back OK, so off to docs today (if I can get in) to challenge the test, and ask him to check to see if all the ones I've had over the years indicate a rise in blood sugar.


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## Zebedee

Hi Kev

Don't know if the same should apply to you, but I had a blood test last week for sugars (_results tomorrow_  ) and I had to fast for 10 hours beforehand.

They said I could drink water so it wasn't a hardship. I can go without food quite painlessly, but it's not so much fun if I can't drink. :roll:

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear

That would make more sense, I had to fast for an ultrasound a couple of weeks ago, but not for the blood tests, which seems a bit suspect to me, got the doc ringing me at 9:15 so I'll quiz him.


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## Zebedee

Do that Kev. :wink: 

I wonder if they just assumed you knew about having to fast??

Our lot don't always tell me to fast . . . they assume I know from frequent past experience.

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear

Zebedee said:


> Do that Kev. :wink:
> 
> I wonder if they just assumed you knew about having to fast??
> 
> Our lot don't always tell me to fast . . . they assume I know from frequent past experience.
> 
> Dave


Another thing when I went for the follow up appointment I hadn't even closed the door, when the practice nurse announced "You have type 2 Diabetes) like she was pleased about it :roll:

Report back in a bit.


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## DrRoger

Hi Kev, you will successfully screw up your blood-sugar with 2 sugars & Weetabx with sugar, if you want!

I hate saccharine & Sweetex, & wouldn't have 'em if that's all there was. Hermesetas is different for me & I use Sorbitol or Xylitol as powder sweeteners.

If you get more exercise I understand that stimulates insulin production & reduces sugar naturally. 

Part of the reason for our emigrating to France is more walking, swimming, & any exercise we like. I hope the result is weight-loss, lower blood-sugar & lower blood-pressure AND retire & be FREE!

My advice is choose what you enjoy exercise & food wise-1 life maybe so enjoy!


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## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> Hi Kev, you will successfully screw up your blood-sugar with 2 sugars & Weetabx with sugar, if you want!
> 
> I hate saccharine & Sweetex, & wouldn't have 'em if that's all there was. Hermesetas is different for me & I use Sorbitol or Xylitol as powder sweeteners.
> 
> If you get more exercise I understand that stimulates insulin production & reduces sugar naturally.
> 
> Part of the reason for our emigrating to France is more walking, swimming, & any exercise we like. I hope the result is weight-loss, lower blood-sugar & lower blood-pressure AND retire & be FREE!
> 
> My advice is choose what you enjoy exercise & food wise-1 life maybe so enjoy!


Sorry Rodger, the 2 cups of sweet tea and the weetabix with sugar was before diagnosis, that was my point, how can it be a reliable blood test based on that breakfast.

Just spoke the Doc, last fasting blood test was 2 years ago so any blood test since then would be about 9am IE after breakfast.

Another fasting blood test has been acknowledged to be a good idea, both for accuracy and my peace of mind.

Losing the sugar will be an ongoing thing anyway as I see it as the devils food   and I need to lose even more weight, but that has been falling for a few months now.

I'm low on Vitamin D too it seems.

I'll book the FBT for about 2 weeks time so I can try to get any possible highs down.

Watch that Sorbital, it makes you visit the loo a bit too frequently for my liking.


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## Pudsey_Bear

*Packaging GDAs can be misleading*

I looked at 4 different packages yesterday for the GDAs on Sugar mainly, and they varied form 70g to 90g, and this is supposed to help, how.

Yes I know it isn't a target, at least not for the fat and sugar, but it's is supposed to be a realistic (yeah right, one Mc burger per day seas most of it gone) but is there a GDA for the Diabetics of any type.

Diabetic isn't even mentioned on this page
and a search of the same site came back with no results either, assuming the search engine is better than the MHF one.

Disgustedly your,

Fat B


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## DrRoger

Didn't even know what a GDA was until I looked it up, so never bother with 'em. No point, I think, all that matters is that we choose what's good for us on an individual basis, with good advice from our GP. Anybody's guess what mine will say on Friday-be interesting, & I'll let you know!


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## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> Didn't even know what a GDA was until I looked it up, so never bother with 'em. No point, I think, all that matters is that we choose what's good for us on an individual basis, with good advice from our GP. Anybody's guess what mine will say on Friday-be interesting, & I'll let you know!


As it happens I've never took much notice of GDAs anyway, more the info to the left of it (if it's to be believed) and I work of percentages, IE 50% fat leave it on the shelf, and look for a lower level one.

My query was what amount if any does the body need to function and what type, I know we need a certain amount of fat to lubricate our joints, and as omnivores we should eat a certain amount of red meat too, whether that's right or not is a different discussion but historically we ate everything within our means, but what place does sugar have, and how much is a max for a diabetic?


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## DrRoger

Hi,

Sugar is a life-saver for me BUT only when I have a very low blood-sugar (hypoglycaemia) that I don't think you ever will, could be wrong-could be 1.8 or under 3 if not too bad . Then I have 2 teaspoons of sugar in hot water & milk to raise BS asap otherwise I'm dopey (more than usual!!!) & feel rough for hours. Not safe to drive under 5.

Other than that I do not have any sugar in the form of white or brown stuff. The more complex carbohydrate _I have the better-it is low-glucose index so it gets released slow to match as far as possible the insulin I've injected.

That's for me & I've only had it as a low blood-sugar emergency for 50 years! Nobody _needs it for nutrition-as long as we get 'sugar' from other sources. Every cell needs a certain amount of sugar-derivative to function hence my becoming unconscious & needing a glucose injection to recover in casualty donkey's years ago!

In essence you/we do not NEED it. As far as I know!

Roger


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## Pudsey_Bear

DrRoger said:


> * EDITED *
> 
> Nobodyneeds it for nutrition-as long as we get 'sugar' from other sources. Every cell needs a certain amount of sugar-derivative to function
> 
> In essence you/we do not NEED it. As far as I know!
> 
> Roger


You seem to be arguing with yourself there Rodger   unless I read it incorrectly, I think we do need it, but the question remains, how much?


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## DrRoger

No not all Kev.

No-one needs sugar for nutrition in the way that you have it in your tea or sprinkle it.

We convert lots of stuff from carbohydrate to the sugar that we do need to function. We even convert protein & fat into sugar so we lose weight. If we are starving on a desert island we'd die eventually once we had no water, protein or fat in our bodies to use up.

Here's a reasonably easy explanation: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/161547.php

When I'm injecting insulin or your working hard without stopping we'd need to eat something to be OK.


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## Zebedee

Well, you lot can stuff your exclusive little club . . . I shall not be joining! :wink: :lol: :lol:

Just back from the surgery and my sugar levels are OK. That's a relief as the previous test showed me as _very _borderline Type 2. _(However, I shall continue to follow the dietary and exercise routines they suggest for controlling diabetes - prevention is always better than cure.)_

As an aside, which may be of interest to those following the medical threads . . . .

Three months ago I came off long term simvastatin, partly to see if it was causing the muscle cramps I suffered, but also just to check that I actually needed it.

After a couple of weeks the muscle cramps had gone, so that strongly indicates simvastatin as the culprit. (Good so far.)

Unfortunately today's results show my cholesterol has jumped from 4.5(ish) to 7.3. (The ratio of "good" to "bad" has also doubled.)

I shall be going back onto a statin, but shall discuss with the doctor next week which alternative is most suitable. I don't see too much to argue about . . . simvastatin was obviously working well, but I can do without the side effect. If another statin will control my cholesterol without adversely affecting my muscles, I can live with that.

Dave


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## DrRoger

That's great, Dave. This club is not one that I would 'choose' to be & I didn't!
Roger


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## mandatory

bulawayolass said:


> l was talking about the people who gave the impression that l was on a quack diet that because the gods called nhs dont advise was a thing to avoid. I got mocked for giving sources but a tv prog. which did not do a proper lchf got praised.
> And also l was saying just how bad the nhs diet was and l await full discreditation as the walls are crumbling on it.
> 
> Advice l also keep saying go on dbuk and read it. yes you can low gi but as someone there has said even low gi you end up lower carbing. And l also said if was just a diabetic other combined health problems need different approaches but still needs carbs dropped.
> 
> Type 1 have their own diet regime which l dont know nor do l try to particulay try as you/they inj and bolus etc and unles l deteriorated and ended up as t2 on inj is imaterial to me. And even then l havent the foggiest how a t1 diet would apply. Other than a lot of t1 on the forum lc to some degree but not like a t2
> 
> And no t2 dont usually face hypos from what l understand if we are on metformin....although there is some discussion on that but l think those on other meds can but again l am on met. so the rest is background to me.
> 
> I shall avoid trying to help on this thread...but if you are on the forum as you say go read kevs original thread Terminal and Scared and call me a fool or a liar. I hate to see others like that so yes l am passonate but l have decided l shall say nothing in future that people need to learn when the tingling starts.


Surely you did not expect anything else from a bunch of fuddy duddies who have not researched as you have


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## Zebedee

A great first post Mandatory . . . you are obviously very skilled at making friends and influencing people. :roll: 

Can we look forward to more helpful and constructive comments? Some of our other Trolls might learn a lot. 8O


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## mandatory

I will try and be more reasonable :lol: 


give him a break, you might learn something :wink:


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## DrRoger

Zebedee said:


> A great first post Mandatory . . . you are obviously very skilled at making friends and influencing people. :roll:
> 
> Can we look forward to more helpful and constructive comments? Some of our other Trolls might learn a lot. 8O


My choice is not to feed 'em, although I do like their song that I sing with a minor word-change!

Roger


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## Pudsey_Bear

Good news, I am NOT a diabetic, but am Pre Diabetic according to my latest fasting blood test.

My Cholesterol is a little high @ 6.5 but coming down, Bone density is normal as is my liver and kidleis are also normal again.

So as we're still both losing weight and I've got used to not having sugar in everything except Coffee, it's a trend we can continue with and both become racing snakes.


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## DrRoger

*Congratulations*

That is fabulous news-well done.


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## rayrecrok

Hey up.

No problems with sugar or cholesterol as I have just had a blood test but they found I needed Iron.. 

Which brings me on to Tinnitus a constant thumping sound, funny I thought I have never had this before even though I played in groups for years with the volume at a Spinal Tap 11.. 

Then I thought funny I only get it at night.. Then I thought funny I only get it when the wind is coming from the East.. Then I thought silly bugger they are putting wind turbines off shore from us and the rhythmic thumping in my head is the pile driver shoving the bloody things in the sea bed.. Hmm cured apart from the thumping coming from the East :roll: .

ray.


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## wakk44

Went for my 6 monthly review on monday and was relieved that my blood sugar average was 6.1.Good news,however the diabetic nurse wanted to reduce my metformin to 500mg from 1000mg.It has taken around 18 months to get my glucose levels to acceptable levels and I don't want to change anything.

The nurse explained that I was a bit on the low side and was concerned about going hypo.I always carry a chocolate bar with me in case my levels drop too low and as soon as I recognise the symptoms eat it and 10-15 minutes later I am fine.

I think a hypoglycemic coma is unlikely with type 2 diabetes as there is plenty of prior warning so we agreed to keep the medication as it was.


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