# re-mapping or smart box ?????



## scotsman (Oct 27, 2006)

just purchased a newer motorhome 2.8jtd with tag axle and would like more power so what should i fit. Smart box can be transfered to any new van i buy but have been told re mapping is better? any big negatives i should know about
many thanks


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Pros and cons, pros and cons.

If it were me, I would choose smart box (if I was sure I wanted even more power than the 2.8JTD gave me - are you sure?)

Look through past threads - use the search button for *smart AND box* or *remapping*, and you can read all the stuff gone before.

Gerald


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi scotsman, seems like Gerald has not driven a tag axle with a mere 2.8 because if he had he would not ask"do you need more power".
I plumped for re-mapping by TB Turbo of Lancaster I did my research & "think" this is the best option most people seem to agree,however more go for the smart box. Its all down to cost !!!!!!.
Gary


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

In terms of the differences between the two routes, see:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-170329.html#170329

Dave


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

sersol said:


> Hi scotsman, seems like Gerald has not driven a tag axle with a mere 2.8 because if he had he would not ask"do you need more power".


This is true. I was just wondering. Seems that the max weight of an Arapaho is 4500kg, which I thought would be pushed along nicely by a 2.8 (in the same way as a 3500kg motorhome is OK with a 2.3 ?)

I don't know, just asking, I suppose.

Gerald


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Gerald,its not a matter of just "pushing you along" its really about how easy & relaxing the drive is.After all I'm not looking at a higher cruising speed or acceleration. I wanted more uphill pulling power & less gear changes also to help prevent cruise control "dropping" out. Since having the motor re-mapped I have not had to change down a gear on any English motorway hill & although my speed does fall away a little "cruise" remains in operation.
Fait fit 2.8 power units as a matter of economics & as such M/H manufacturers are stuck with that.
I'm not sure what your experience is with the larger M/H but I,m sure that most people with one, would given the choice (& money) plump for say a 4.0L TD.I spent many years driving high miles (80/90k) per annum & found the journey to be MUCH more relaxing with a few more horses under the bonnet. I'm no speed merchant but when I drove say 1.4L or 1.6L cars it was less pleasure than say a 2.0L or 2.5L.It all comes down to ease.It would be interesting to see how many large M/H owners say above 4000kg (excluding ARV's) would like more power.The fact that Renault & now Fiat offer higher power, power plants with the option of auto gearbox,I think speaks volumes!!!.
Gary


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## boosters (Nov 10, 2006)

*MOTORHOME REMAPPING*

Hi Scotsman
ref your remapping The increase you will gain is 35% more bhp and torque and also improved fuel economy,the difference between a profesional remap and plug in box is a mini and rolls royce,the existing map on your vehicle is computer generated at an average for power,fuel,torque etc,because it is an average map it has a lot of inconsistencies ie dips in map,therefore when you look at power curve instead of it being a nice curve it dips up and down,these are deadspots in the way the engine runs,what our co does is read existing map from ecu,modify map and iron out all the dips,resulting in perfect power curve (this is F1 technology).
This is not possible with a power box,all that a power box does is trick the injection pressure sensor to inject more fuel into the engine,and can cause especially in fiat 2.8jtd damage to fuel pump.

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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi boosters,interesting reading,however I'm not sure about the increase in fuel economy,for my part I just smile at every hill  .
Gary


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## boosters (Nov 10, 2006)

Hi Gary
sure thing about fuel economy if you think about it,by having more power and torque you are up to your max load on engine faster ie 60mph,because of extra torque you can climb hills in higher gear saving revving of engine and changing down=improved fuel economy
our main percentage of business is commercial vehicles and we guarantee customer min 1/2 mile per gallon more,this we can do on commercials because they have speed limiter fitted 57mph,unfortunately on a vehicle without speed limiter it is down to your right foot,what we normally find is that when first remapped the customer first drives the vehicle and the difference is unbelievable (like driving a ferrari)after about 2 weeks of enjoyment you then settle back to your normal driving habit and you should improve your fuel consumption by about 10%
regards
Alex
Boosters uk

















+


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"This is not possible with a power box,all that a power box does is trick the injection pressure sensor to inject more fuel into the engine,and can cause especially in fiat 2.8jtd damage to fuel pump." 

That is wrong, and scaremongering marketing. 

Dave


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

boosters said:


> When first remapped the customer first drives the vehicle and the difference is unbelievable (like driving a ferrari)
> 
> regards
> 
> ...


WOW 0-60 in 5 seconds in a motorhome. I *want* some of that

Dave

656

+[/quote]


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi Alex,I guess some one has exception to some of your post !!!!. Sometimes the mods are awake :lol: .
Re the claims of better fuel economy,that is not why I had mine remapped I just wanted an easier (more lazy  ) drive. My 2.8td had a standard bhp of 127,you say that your system will increase bhp by 35% so that gives 171bhp.Do I understand that correctly.The reason I ask is that mine now has 159bhp,the company that carried the remapping informed that to gain much higher bhp it would require a larger intercooler. I should say that before & after remapping I had my m/h on a rolling road by doing this I new what I was getting.
Gary


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## boosters (Nov 10, 2006)

Hi Gary
all our modifications have been tested on dynamiter,the reason we can increase hors power and torque 35% is that most companys when they remap they do a percentage increase on the existing map,they do not have the facility to take out the imperfections (dips in map)the software we have we own the licence to it and are the only people in the uk with this software.on another point it would not be cost efficient for you to pay for another remap as the horsepower difference is not enough to warrant the cost 12bhp,if you decided to fit a bigger intercooler we could remap to about 225=230 bhp
regards
Alex


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## 101779 (Nov 13, 2006)

This is an interesting thread. 
I like the idea of using the “dynamiter” Alex! :violent1: 
Its torque that most of us need not bhp but they are closely linked and in most cases misunderstood. Alex is correct in that a system that plugs in between the rail pressure sensor and the ecu will in fact increase the fuel pressure and also the fuel temperature. The manufacturers are always trying to keep the rail temperature under control. The common rail pump works at a minimum pressure of 300bars so any increase in pressure has got to be supplied by the pump. The other point to think about is the injector itself, and increase in pressure would also have a detrimental effect on the precise injector pintle (hole) diameter over a period of time.
From a purely technical point of view and I say that with over 40 years of automotive experience I would go for the map route but its personnel choice. 
Just another thought we are now on the third generation (at least) of the common rail systems and as to the future compatibility of power boxes to future purchases may not be possible so in vie you will finish up paying every time you change.


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## scotsman (Oct 27, 2006)

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH for all your input into this subject.
i have decided to go for the re map.


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## Kaletzky (Mar 16, 2007)

Hi everyone, I recently bought a Eura Mobil 770 with teh 2.8JTD and the high ratio 5th gear, I wanter easier cruising and the ability to maintain speed so asked for advice on here and got lots of good replies. I went for the remap at TB Turbo of Lancaster, I'm sure there were others but they were handy enough for me and came recommended. Had it done last Saturday and the difference was noticeable straight away even though I drove into Morcambe afterwards and wasnt on open roads. the van is much smoother, I mean much much smoother and the acceleration is good enough to short shift and keep up with teh traffic. the real revelation though was the motorway performance....5th gear and 70mph ALL the way up Shap Summit, fantastic. Previously it was 50mph and 4th gear. The remap is not cheap but compared to the price of the 'van it's less that 1% of the purchase price, that to me is good value. I dont know about economy yet but it has to be better as I'm not needing to thrash the engine now.


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## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

Does remapping effect the warranty on a new vehicle and are there times when if the vehicle were in for repair/service etc. the garage might undo what you have paid for?


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## 102160 (Dec 20, 2006)

A good point. We run a motorcycle dyno and one of the marques we tune is Triumph. We do this by remapping the ECU (the same as remapping the ECU in a car/mh). Triumph bring out new maps at regularish intervals and if you have the motorcycle serviced at a triumph dealer they automatically load the new maps, therefore overwriting our good work. We obviously have a copy of the map but this requires a chargeable visit back to us to have the map put back in. Now if they are local then its no problem (apart from the ansgt at having to pay again) but if they come some way (as some do) then it starts to be a PITA.

Also when you map an ECU all you do is inject or take out fuel; the pump for the common rail can only supply what it is set to (AFAIAA) so how does the tuning box (or ECU for that matter) tell it to deliver more pressure? The only way to do this would be to set up the pump up to deliver higher pressure manually (which i suspect the mapping tuners do anyway even if they are not telling us). Indeed on the triumph (even if it is petrol) by altering the fuel pressure higher you can get more power.

(edited for speling)


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