# Diesel additive out of date ?



## thesnail

I have been using Millers additive and last year brought in a double supply, I notice that the instructions state to be used with twelve months of purchase and looking closer I see there is a date stamped on the bottle.

The question is, will the additive still work, will it do an damage, or is this just another of these best before scams to get you to use more or throw it away.

Your thoughts please.

bryan


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## listerdiesel

If it hasn't been opened and the seal is intact, it will be fine.

Peter


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## cabby

Can I ask which oil and for what vehicle and why you think you need it please.Also agree with Peter.

cabby


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## BillCreer

I would only be worried if there was any sediment in the bottle especially if it did not disperse when shaken.

So is it a fuel or oil additive?


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## HarleyDave

Is this the stuff?

http://reviews.halfords.com/4028/811125/reviews.htm

Seems to be mixed reviews but, as usual, Halfrauds is pricey.

Cheers

Dave


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## mikebeaches

If we are talking about diesel additives to go in the fuel, I presume as well as cleaning the injectors and helping the engine run more smoothly, it also improves mpg?

The reason I mention it - and at risk of going very slightly off the OP's original question - is that we are just coming to the end of a month-long tour around Spain. And I am amazed in the difference the quality of diesel makes to the mpg (admittedly using the fuel computer to judge).

We have found diesel as cheap as €1.269 euro per litre for an unfamiliar brand, but filling the tank up with the stuff and we lose 2-3 mpg, or as much as 10% in mileage. Use the more expensive diesel from a familiar brand (but not the higher grade 'super' stuff) and the mpg comes back on track, which for us is approx 29 mpg overall. I

I know this is not exactly a scientific observation, because you need to factor in wind speed and direction, plus terrain being covered - but nonetheless, I'm convinced there's a difference.

And finally - to get to the point - I assume it's all down to the additives that are put in the fuel (or not) by the supplier?

Finally, back on topic - as others have mentioned - I wouldn't expect there to be a problem if the product isn't too ancient (more than 2 years old) and the seal not broken.

Mike


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## Stanner

mikebeaches said:


> If we are talking about diesel additives to go in the fuel, I presume as well as cleaning the injectors and helping the engine run more smoothly, it also improves mpg?
> 
> The reason I mention it - and at risk of going very slightly off the OP's original question - is that we are just coming to the end of a month-long tour around Spain. And I am amazed in the difference the quality of diesel makes to the mpg (admittedly using the fuel computer to judge).
> 
> We have found diesel as cheap as €1.269 euro per litre for an unfamiliar brand, but filling the tank up with the stuff and we lose 2-3 mpg, or as much as 10% in mileage. Use the more expensive diesel from a familiar brand (but not the higher grade 'super' stuff) and the mpg comes back on track, which for us is approx 29 mpg overall. I
> 
> I know this is not exactly a scientific observation, because you need to factor in wind speed and direction, plus terrain being covered - but nonetheless, I'm convinced there's a difference.
> 
> And finally - to get to the point - I assume it's all down to the additives that are put in the fuel (or not) by the supplier?
> 
> Finally, back on topic - as others have mentioned - I wouldn't expect there to be a problem if the product isn't too ancient (more than 2 years old) and the seal not broken.
> 
> Mike


But I'm sure I read on here, from those who claim to know, that all DERV sold in the EU has to be to the EN590 standard and that there is no difference between the stuff the supermarkets sell and that sold by the likes of Shell and BP.

So it must all be down to your imagination. :wink:


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## Jean-Luc

A bit OT so apologies.
I'm not a great believer in additives for increased MPG but I have a sneaking suspicion that those promoted to replace the lost lubricity in diesel fuel since the advent of low sulphur fuel may help with extending the life of components which like good lubrication.

However, on the way back from Spain during May 2012 I bought a bottle of 'stuff' (can't remember the brand name) which was supposed to increase the Cetane Number and chucked it in with a fill-up at the Carrefour near Vinaros and headed northwards via Morella - Col Du Pourtalet - Pau.

Despite the heavy pulling on such a demanding route (all up weigh over 3,800kg) the MPG for that tankful was 32.2MPG, thinking I had short filled at the refill stop in France Iwas surprised that that tank full gave 25.8MPG which is close enough to the usual value.
In fact the seven fill-ups (three either side) were 24.6, 24.1, 28.2, *32.2*, 25.8, 28.7, 25.3.

FWIW, my conclusion is that the 'stuff' really worked and the extra MPG for the treated fule was not down to not properly filling the follow on tank.


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## HarleyDave

Well - that seems to me to be a good case for putting the additive in - but...

How much does it cost (per tankful) and how much do you save on the basis of 4 mpg better (Why do we still insist on using mpg when we buy it in litres...)

I'll let someone else work that out - I've had a busy day

Cheers

Dave

PS Wish I got that sort of fuel economy - we are nearer 20mpg (A class with trailer approx 5.3 tonne train weight)


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## Jean-Luc

HarleyDave said:


> .......................(Why do we still insist on using mpg when we buy it in litres...)............................


Probably for the same reason some us in Euroland of refer to a Euro as a Quid


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## BillCreer

If it does raise the cetane rating by 4 then you should notice a difference in performance and or economy. Normal cetane rating can be anything between, roughly, 40 to 50.


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## Mrplodd

Snake oil :lol:


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## Jean-Luc

Mrplodd said:


> Snake oil :lol:


My best returns have been occasionally 27/28 mpg and that's with really relaxed sauntering along, my usual is between 24 and 26.
The run involved was, to say the least, challenging terrain and covered from Benicarlo in Spain to Laruns in France in eight hours including stops, so while not blistering quick not exactly dawdling along either.

The 32.2mpg represents a 24% improvement on my long-term average and 12% improvement on my best achievable.

Other than a leprechaun working some magic it surely must be the snake oil


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## Mrplodd

If it's benefits are so great how come it's not put into every litre of fuel sold?? Fuel economy certainly sells vehicles these days

If it really works how come we don't see far more advertising telling us of it's scientifically provable attributes??? It's because Like I said, it's Snake Oil.

If you choose to believe otherwise that is certainly your right. But until I see the results of a proper scientific evaluation (not simply anecdotal) proving it's benefits I am going to save my money.


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## BillCreer

I think the point is that he has spent his money so he might as well use it and these additives do increase the cetane level so he will experience more power and economy.

You probably won't recover the expense of buying the product but that was never the issue.

If his injectors need cleaning though, he might, as they do contain a cleaning element.


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## nicholsong

Jean-Luc said:


> HarleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......................(Why do we still insist on using mpg when we buy it in litres...)............................
> 
> 
> 
> Probably for the same reason some us in Euroland of refer to a Euro as a Quid
Click to expand...

Thank goodness the Euro only costs 83p Sterling and you have to pay Euro 1.20 for a 'quid' Sterling :lol:

I still find it difficult to try to convert my thinking from MPG(or litre) to Lt/100km, because it requires converting two units of measurement and then inverting the result. I have worked it out that we use approx. 13lt/100km, but I would struggle to make comparisons either side of that. Am I alone?

Geoff


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## vicdicdoc

I like this 'snake oil' . . . I use one bottle every year (or 4000miles) and I CAN feel the difference, it makes my engine run smoother & more responsive along with better acceleration.

So snake oil or not I'm happy with it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FORTE-Advan...m_auto_12?ie=UTF8&refRID=0BGZZSGF25FBSR8RW0YX


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## Mrplodd

Vicdicdoc

Please dont think I am trying to tell you how to lead your life, far from it. If you feel it works for you then carry on with my blessing.

I was just playing devils advocate to a certain extent (as is my want from time to time)

My point was that there does not seem to be any *scientific* (note not anecdotal) evidence to suggest that these products actual improve anything. I am aware that many say they can feel a difference (as you have)

I still think theye are a bit like the magnets that you attach to the fuel line to "Line up the molecules" to give more efficient combustion, if they work why dont the vehicle manufacturers fit them as standard?? Likewise fuel additives, if they can be PROVEN to work then why are they not being heavily advertised???

If there was such proof then I would hesitate to use them (if they were cost effective of course, no point spending a fiver to save 20p :wink


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## fatbuddha

I'm with Mr Plodd here - where's the scientific evidence?? 

it's akin to taking a placebo tablet - if you think it's doing you some good then it may well be doing so, but why that is nobody knows. perhaps with the additive in the tank, then you maybe driving (subconsciously) more economically so the effect you see is down to you and not the additive


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## 747

I use 2 Stroke engine oil in the fuel when I top up with Supermarket fuel.

I find that when I do it, we never get any rainy days on our trip.


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## nicholsong

:wink:


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## Jean-Luc

fatbuddha said:


> I'm with Mr Plodd here - where's the scientific evidence??
> 
> it's akin to taking a placebo tablet - if you think it's doing you some good then it may well be doing so, but why that is nobody knows. perhaps with the additive in the tank, then you maybe driving (subconsciously) more economically so the effect you see is down to you and not the additive


I've no issue with that.
However, if I take Mr Plodd's proposition how do I reconcile the once off significant improvement in MPG my engine gave.
I know I more or less came down from Morella and the north side of the Pyrenees on engine over-run, but that was surely counter balanced the clime up both.

My finding certainly couldn't be classed as scientific, but neither is it anecdotal, it is based on factual data recorded by myself. To check the possibility the I short filled the next time I filled the tank I checked the recorded the MPG of the following three fills to check on that.

In nearly 90,000 kms of driving the same vehicle and on occasions needing to get the maximum return for the fuel I put in I have never, subconsciously or otherwise, managed anything better than 27/28 MPG, the lifetime average being 25 ish MPG :?


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## fatbuddha

> My finding certainly couldn't be classed as scientific, but neither is it anecdotal, * it is based on factual data recorded by myself. *


and there's the problem - "factual" data from one person does not a study make - it is purely anecdotal.

to make it a useful study you would need to do the same routes, at different times, under the same conditions (weather, traffic etc) and then compare the results to make it anywhere near meaningful. and for that to be repeated by others as well.

the nearest you could probably get to a scientific study with something like this is to do it on a test track under repeatable conditions. and as I understand, this has not been done but the makers (unless someone knows otherwise) so any claims made can't be truly factual.


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## BillCreer

If the cetane rating is increased the fuel burns better, which gives more power and that is a scientific fact (Google it).

Certain additives do clean fuel pumps and injectors(Google it).

The only debatable issue is whether you get a worth while return on your moneys.

Lots of "snake oil" and "crank devices" are sold that only have an effect on your wallet and your brain.

In the "snake oil" category I would include expensive oils like GTX, Magnatec etc which, when used, in ordinary engine contribute nothing more than any cheaper oil would.


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## Jean-Luc

fatbuddha said:


> My finding certainly couldn't be classed as scientific, but neither is it anecdotal, * it is based on factual data recorded by myself. *
> 
> 
> 
> and there's the problem - "factual" data from one person does not a study make - it is purely anecdotal.
> 
> to make it a useful study you would need to do the same routes, at different times, under the same conditions (weather, traffic etc) and then compare the results to make it anywhere near meaningful. and for that to be repeated by others as well.
> 
> the nearest you could probably get to a scientific study with something like this is to do it on a test track under repeatable conditions. and as I understand, this has not been done but the makers (unless someone knows otherwise) so any claims made can't be truly factual.
Click to expand...

I'm happy  
I got at least 6 MPG more than I would have expected on the journey based on my experience of the vehicle since I bought it in 2005 

I have no more to add 8)


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## thesnail

*Disel additive out of date ?*

First thanks everybody for all the replies only I think the subject has been slightly side tracked.

I started using an additive as some times (six months in Spain) the van would stand with the same fuel in the tank, having read some scary stories of bacterial contamination I started using an additive for this reason.

Whether or not it gives better MPG I'm afraid I've not kept a proper check on it (maybe next time I'm on a long haul.)

I must add that my son who sells and repairers cars is quiet dismissive of continental fuels and changes my fuel filter on my annual service regardless of the mileage.

I have put my original query to Millers oils (is the shelf life a critical factor with their "Ecnomax" additive) but untill now no reply.

Thanks again

Bryan


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## Mrplodd

If your vehicle is standing for a long time then rather than using "Snake oil" ( :wink: ) you would be much better off making sure your fuel tank is as full as possible.

This "diesel bug" bacteria (google to get an explanation) forms at the interface of diesel and water, so whats IN the Diesel wont have much of an effect, especially on the walls of the tank where it tends to form. Continental diesel has a higher percentage of Bio fuel in it than then stuff in the UK. This Bio fuel is a VERY good solvent so it is very good at stripping off any lining (bacteria bug??) thats on the side walls of your diesel tank. 

I had first hand experience of Diesel bug clogging my in line fuel filter a few years ago in France so I now make sure my tank is "brimmers" before it gets left for any length of time.


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