# Weighbridge Blues. Can anyone make sense of this ?



## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

Can anyone get some sort of sense out of this ?

In the bumf, the van should be 3310kg, thats with one driver 75kg, 90% water fuel and gas included in that weight. The van has a tow bar plus bike and ball mounted rack and a roof solar panel fitted. When weighed yesterday it read 3360kg and that was WITHOUT any water on board, no person and approx 15 litres of fuel in the tank. I really wasn't expecting that reading.

Today i took it to another weighbridge, same arrangment as yesterday, weighed 3440kg. On those stats i can't even get in to drive it legally. 

Talk about a head spinner, i just need a very accurate reading. Where on earth do you get one of those ?

I travel light regards personnal effects, couple of pans and a frying pan. Few knives and forks and some levelling stuff in the back. The bikes weighs 13.9kg, rack 4 kg, tow bar approx 20kg. The empty water tank is 100litres and fuel 90 litres. it's 1kg per litre of fluid that wasn't on board. Plus no person that saves 75kg. 

On my rough reckoning the van should weigh 3084(that includes the 15 lires of fuel) without the allowances. Add to the 3084 the bike and rack and towbar and 100w solar panel, 20kg extra gas so roughly 3150kg Plus the bits n peices pots an pans, 1 kg of porridge which cannot in a million years come to 300kg going by todays weighbridge. 

Todays reading was taken at an aggregates supplier and yesterdays at a farm both are used to dealing with 40 tonne laden vehicles where 200kg here and there barely scratches the surface. Yet in little things like ours that makes or breaks you. 

Should i be right in assuming both are very far out in their measures ?


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

what's the maximum according to your plate?


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

bognormike said:


> what's the maximum according to your plate?


The Fiat plate under the bonnet reads 3650kg. The Apache 634 does have a tight payload, but that suits me as i don't carry much, thus left thinking how can any of this add up.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

have you got anothe thread running about this? I'm confused...


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

Don't know what van you have but most state in thesmall print that the quoted MIRO is accurate to within 5% which for yours is 166kg, which means it could be 3475kg. Your added towbar etc.roughly equal the water etc. left out so is probably about right.
Are they public weighbridges? If so they should be accutrate to within one increment (either 10 or 20kg depending)when the weight is evenly distributed.
I've always found this causes a problem when trying to weigh a single axle as I can't get it in the middle of the weighbridge. 
In my experience most vans are near the top end of the MIRO plus 5% without any extras.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

Sort of but not really.

The other thread was regards the plate and and sorting that. Since that thread was started i visited bridge two today that led to this one bringing into question the accurancy of the weighbridges.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Give the palte a wipe and put your glasses on, it might read 3850kg, not 3650, which is a new one to me.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

The miro quoted will often not include a wind out awning, extra battery, oven, larger fridge etc which can all be optional extras.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

I've used the Autotrail website weight calculator and set it to Apache 634u 3650kg,

according to that, with a personal allowance of 91kg and 58kg of extras plus one passsenger i have a remaining payload of 148kg. 
So take off for the bike and rack, lets say 20kg, then the extra gas. I should still have 100kg to play with. 

Perhaps it is the centraling of the van on the bridge that throws a spanner into the works.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I took ours for it's _Controle Technique_ (equivalent of MoT) in Bergerac and they weighed it as 3580 kg - well within it's maximum 3850 kg.

I then drove 35 km south to our public weighbridge, nothing had changed (except I had used a little but of fuel) and it weighed 3480 kg, nothing had changed......

So, my experience of weighbridges is not 100% convinced of their reliability, I think you may have encountered the same gremlins....

I do not have an easy answer as regards what to do - our MH was full of water and personal effects at the time as we had come back from a trip the day before......

But our local public one is consistent and the CT operator said it was well within his limits so perfectly OK for the plate..... He said he would not have worried if 3850 +100kg on his instrument.

Dave


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## Bill_OR (Feb 6, 2010)

Freddiebooks,
I can't answer your specific question but when I took my Apache 634 to a weighbridge soon after I bought it the weights were:

Front: 1650Kg
Rear: 1980Kg

i.e. total 3630Kg - with a max of 3650Kg (like yours).

I was having kittens!! However, on board I had:
Me - (about 13 stone)
wife - (about xx stone) - I daren't...!
Old English Sheepdog (40Kg) - (ok I know I'm being inconsistent on units)
full tank of diesel
full fresh water tank
drive away awning - quite a heavy object
we also have a factory fitted solar panel, factory fitted Sat dome, a single 13Kg Gaslow system (which was full at the time) and a small safe
I also have the Comformatic gearbox which is heavier than a standard one.

I rationalised that we are actually OK as I don't normally travel with water on board, the fuel tank is rarely full, we never use the awning so we leave it at home and I also went through the MH and removed all the crap that I don't actually need to carry!

The only time I do worry is when we are coming back from France with a stash of bottles of wine - hence my interest in the other thread about the options to uprate the max weight.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

When I bought my 634 seconhand it was advertised with a 400kg payload (as per the brochure I believe for a 2009 model). We collected it from the dealer, drove it towards home and stopped at a weighbridge on the way. It read 3,600kg. Shock horror. That was 100kg over its limit and we had not even transferred most of our belongings at that point.

As extras it did have fitted a towbar (which I reckon probably weighs around 60kg), a automatic satellite dish and the factory fitted awning (which I don't think is an extra). I was carrying a passenger. so allowing my wife as the 75kg you can add another 100kg for me 8O , we had some gas on board, about half a tank of fuel, and about half a tank of water.

With the few clothes and possessions we had swapped I still have trouble seeing where the payload has disappeared to. In fact we were 500kg over the supposed MIRO figure.

JohnW


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

Sent this to AT for there opinion and advice on the matter. I'll let you know what they say.

Apache 634, 3650kg, but converted by AT to 3500kg for the first 1st Keeper. 

Mass in Running Order 3310kg. When taken to the weighbridge no persons were inside, the water tank empty (hot water full), fuel 17 litres, wastes empty. So rule of thumb approx 225kg less than the MRO.

So roughly speaking 3085kg remaining. Add to this, factory fitted solar 10kg, Bike 14kg, Ball mounted rack 4kg, Tow Bar 30kg ? Extra gas 25kg So i get that to 3168kg. Add to this food, belongings, levelling blocks, hose pipe and general stuff is 100kg. Gets me to 3268kg . With a remainding payload of 232kg for people, fuel and water at my discretion

The Bridge reading was 3360kg on Friday (worrying), then another bridge on Saturday read a mind blowing 3440kg (i nearly fell over) When round abouts it should be reading 3268kg . (add some for media pack also and sports line extras 10kg)

Am i missing something here Colin ? Is there discrepencies with the MRO as i can find no literature to suggest it. I mean going by todays reading, I was overloaded by driving back to the lock up, and thats with fuel light on, zero water tank.

But if the published figures are true then am i right to assume both weighbridges are wonky ?


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

If you feel the weighbridges are inaccurate you can contact your local Trading Standards department, as they are responsible for checking the accuracy, A discrepancy of 80 kg does seem to indicate a problem with one or t'other. Some Councils operate a free weighbridge service too, they might point you towards one.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I was Googling to try and find how accurate a weighbridge needed to be.

Link to previous post

Weighbridge guidance.

The lagal accuracy is in here somewhere

Not always accurate even for councils

You have the right to see a calibration certificate on the spot if you get force weighed, you can also demand to see the scales set to zero before driving on.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Surely the first thing that you need to do is to empty the MH of everything except that normally included such as a small quantity of fuel etc.....

drain the hot water, waste and fresh water tanks, empty the loo and flushing tank, take out the gas cylinders, remove all personal belongings, TV, food, wine bottles etc....

In other words empty the MH back to as close to as it was delivered as possible - the factory fitted solar panel must obviously remain.

THEN take it to the weighbridge, or weighbridges and remeasure the mass..

Check that against the factory figure and then weigh everything that you put inside so that you know how many kg you have added.

Then check it again with the weighbridge.

It may be tedious but surely that is the only way by which you determine the true value and also check the accuracy of the weighbridges.....

Only then can you really start to ask questions of the Council, and AT.

Tedious but necessary IMO.

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I can see your point Dave, and for the OP it's relevant, for us, I load up fully, water, fuel fridge, bedding all the tins etc, as if ready to go off on a trip and weigh it like that, bloody scary when it tipped 3500kg though, no payload left, which is a worry, but I do have half a garage of tools under the bed, and a load more bits of wire etc over the cab, one more trip to confirm it's actually not going to fall apart and I'll start slimming down my emergency kit.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

I don't have any major gripe with weighbridges or Autotrail, the reason for my posting this matter is confusion. 

I was according to the brochure approx 225kg under the MRO of 3310kg. As written above then add on the items i was carrying in personal allowances and add ons from manufacture (solar panel etc) I know i travel light i even limit knives and forks to two of each. 

Plus the second weigh i know i was lighter as holdall was removed, plus ruck sack and food plus cool box not to mention less fuel. Yet it measured 80 kg MORE than 18 hours previous. So i'm just thinking is the whole weigh thing, luck of the draw or a fools paradise. 

So I await AT's opinion hopefully tomorrow.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I suspect AT will suggest the same as me....

you said they originally downgraded it to 3,500, they may well suggest going back to the original figures......

and that's when the fun really starts.....

As I said, interestingly although our Kontiki is rated at 3,850, fully equipped it is still under 3,500 kg according to the local weighbridge (= _bascule]/i] in French) - but as it is registered as 3,850 that is what is has to stay in France - changing it would be VERY difficult apparently.....

It does me we have to have a CT (= MoT) annually rather than every two years if it was less than 3,500 kh as occurs throughout the rest of Europe I believe...

Heads we lose, tails they win....... comes to mind...

Dave_


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## RichardD (Sep 14, 2009)

I went through the same concerns last year with my Rapido, but in the end after contacting both my Dealer and Rapido it was proved that the manufacturers figures were accurate and were within the +/-5% tolerance.

As Dave said, empty everything out, don't even leave anything in the dash lockers. Don't forget the hot water cylinder and make an allowance of around 5kgs for the water left in the pipes. Also establish what is a standard fit and what are considered as extras. The manufacturer will always quote the MIRO at the most basic trim level. Typically on the Rapido the carpet, oven, cruise control, Comfortmatic and passenger airbag were all extra. Then get the manufacturers quoted weight for all the extras, don't guess as I did, you'll be surprised as to what items actually weigh. When I took it to the Dealer for the investigation under the guidance of Rapido I had to provide copies of manufacturers quoted weights.

Good luck, but don't be surprised if the weights do check out with the manufacturers figures. We've now dramatically reduced the amount of stuff we carry particularly in the garage.

Richard


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

The +/- 5% card is played by a lot of manufacturers. Our Pilote A class was sold as 3500 and knowing this, we got it uprated to 3650 at no cost (it was unregistered). The 3650 is the standard "no modification" uprate for the Fiat camper chassis. Loaded up and the weighbridge gave 1660/1990 with overall 3660. Official max is 1850/2000. Overweight. The weighbridge operator cautioned me on the accuracy of the front and rear axle figures but all we needed was an indication. 

So we had to fit air assist and higher load rating rear tyres and then everything off to SV tech who issued a new weight plate at 3850. Now we have 1850/2240 front and rear and comfortable with payload.

I don't think the OP is finding anything unusual in those figures. Apart from the usual French lying - sorry, being economical with the truth - about realistic weights, there was an extra leisure battery, oven, awning, solar panels and satellite dome, plus the water was 75% and nearly full fuel and gas (Pilote quote weights with only 20 litres in the system instead of the 135 full tank). All add up to considerable weight extra to the van. A type approved Towbar will be in the order of 60 kilos at least I would have thought so it adds up much more quickly than people sometimes think.....

At least the OP had the very good sense to put the van over a weighbridge and find out. So many people don't bother and simply run around blissfully overweight


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I must be missing something :roll:   to my mind it does not matter a fig what the brochure says unless nothing has been added, but the weighbridge significantly disagrees with that info, and you wish to make a complaint.

The only figures which count is the latest active data plate limit on the van, and whatever the scales read should you get stopped, the brochure could say anything, it won't matter with VOSA they deal with what's in front of them, a scale reading and a data plate.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

Autotrails Reply. As always Colin has come up trumps and responded and helped with flying colours.

At least it shows my calculations were more or less correct and at least i now have a base figure to work around. It gives me 200kg, 75kg for me and 125kg for fuel and water to reach my MRO. Then a further 190kg all the other. Anyhow, i'm pretty pleased with that figure of 3110kg. 

"Having checked our records your vehicle when it left our production line had a weight of 3110 kg, this weight included the factory fitted solar panel, media pack and sport line. There would have been no water and only a very small amount of fuel and no allowances for the driver. This does of course not include any extras fitted like the tow bar, bike rack etc."


Regards

Colin


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## piggiebank (Jun 12, 2014)

Hi

I would speak to your local trading standards office and ask to speak to the person who does enforcement. You will find them very helpfull. I used to do joint operations with them in cheshire. You may find that the plates you are using are not calibrated and secondly if you are using a plate to try and wEigh one axle it does mot alwAys come out accurately where as if you use the single foot wide sensor plate it will weigh each axle in turn then give you a gross weight. That will be exact and from there you can work out what you need to do t/standards will help you understand what is going on from an exact view point

Regards

Graham


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