# Camping Tyres



## Robbins33

My tyres have got to an age that they now need replacement. Can anyone explain what camping tyres are and the merits of changing to these tyres. Thanks


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## Jeannette

They are the correct fitment for a motorhome, they have stiffer walls and area meant for carrying load. Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.


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## duxdeluxe

If your van was supplied with camping tyres (marked - for example - as 215/70 R15 CP, the CP meaning "Camping Pneu") then it should always be replaced like for like. As above they are specially designed to cope with the van being always loaded close to its design maximum instead of white van man's favoured means of transport which is frequently empty

In any case...... Also make absolutely sure that you buy tyres with the correct load rating (e.g. 109 or 112 etc). The link below shows the max weight for each wheel (so double it for the axle)

http://www.tyresafe.org/tyre-safety/caravan-tyre-safety/load-and-inflation-tables


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## cabby

For even more information try a search and you will find many more threads on this subject, fairly divided as to whether you need to have CP labelled tyres.Plus make sure that of the tyre date.

cabby


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## TheNomad

Jeannette said:


> They are the correct fitment for a motorhome, they have stiffer walls and area meant for carrying load. Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.


Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.

They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.

The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.


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## Happycampers

Robbins33 you have a PM


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## duxdeluxe

TheNomad said:


> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.


Sorry but I must disagree with that - picture this scenario. Van fitted as original with CP tyres, changed for ordinary chin long van tyres or even Michelins. Tyre has a blow out and destroys a portion of the van bodywork. Insurance assessor inspects and sees a non CP tyre. You risk having a claim rejected.

Clearly you know better than that but I certainly would not take the risk and if anyone wants to do so, it is their lookout..


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## selstrom

duxdeluxe said:


> TheNomad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I must disagree with that - picture this scenario. Van fitted as original with CP tyres, changed for ordinary chin long van tyres or even Michelins. Tyre has a blow out and destroys a portion of the van bodywork. Insurance assessor inspects and sees a non CP tyre. You risk having a claim rejected.
> 
> Clearly you know better than that but I certainly would not take the risk and if anyone wants to do so, it is their lookout..
Click to expand...

As long as the tyre is the correct size, speed index and load index there would be no grounds for rejecting the claim. Manufactures often supply identical speced vehicles with different tyre makes to suit their supply chain.

A tyre of a load index is designed to operate for 100% of the time at the maximum load allowed.


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## Robbins33

As always, many thanks to all for the replies.


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## cabby

Now we will all wait to hear what you had fitted, you do know this. :wink: :wink: 

cabby


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## duxdeluxe

selstrom said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheNomad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I must disagree with that - picture this scenario. Van fitted as original with CP tyres, changed for ordinary chin long van tyres or even Michelins. Tyre has a blow out and destroys a portion of the van bodywork. Insurance assessor inspects and sees a non CP tyre. You risk having a claim rejected.
> 
> Clearly you know better than that but I certainly would not take the risk and if anyone wants to do so, it is their lookout..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As long as the tyre is the correct size, speed index and load index there would be no grounds for rejecting the claim. Manufactures often supply identical speced vehicles with different tyre makes to suit their supply chain.
> 
> A tyre of a load index is designed to operate for 100% of the time at the maximum load allowed.
Click to expand...

Ok, if that is true, then why have CP tyres at all? Surely they then have no relevance and it is pure marketing hype........

I think I will stick with them for the various reasons I gave above - tyres are the only point of contact with the road


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## TheNomad

duxdeluxe said:


> TheNomad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I must disagree with that - picture this scenario. Van fitted as original with CP tyres, changed for ordinary chin long van tyres or even Michelins. Tyre has a blow out and destroys a portion of the van bodywork. Insurance assessor inspects and sees a non CP tyre. You risk having a claim rejected.
> 
> Clearly you know better than that but I certainly would not take the risk and if anyone wants to do so, it is their lookout..
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's not correct.

A load index rating is exactly that: the maximum load that the tyre is rated to carry, however long it is required to carry that load, within the speed rating that accompanies it.

If you have tyres with the appropriate dimensions, load and speed rating, that is what (and that is all) that is required.


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## peedee

duxdeluxe said:


> Ok, if that is true, then why have CP tyres at all? Surely they then have no relevance and it is pure marketing hype........


The way I understand it from reading Michelin's advice is that camping tyres have a tougher side wall purely to cope with the varied driving surfaces that motorhomes will encounter and to resist damage as a result. To me it is therefore not wrong to put commercial van tyres of the same speed and load rating on a motorhome, you just may be increasing the risks of damage when using on rough roads.
peedee


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## cheshiregordon

as my safety (which is extremely dear to me) depends on the very small amount of rubber in contact with the road I have no intention of skimping on cost and will buy the recommended CP tyres for the vehicle. I personally prefer michelin.


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## Jean-Luc

While both regular and CP tyres can be used and each fulfil the same purpose of providing contact with the road of the required quality I would never opt for a regular tyre for my motorhome.

The basis for my choice is that the added safety margin resulting from the more robust construction of CP tyres decreases the risk of a blow-out. Such an event which can have catastrophic results I am happy to pay the extra cost to minimise exposure to.

There is also the comfort issue relating to the dB rating, CP tyres outperform many ordinary commercial vehicle in this aspect.


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## VanFlair

I don't think that there will ever be a definitive answer to this question, some people believe the whole camping tyre thing and others don't.

We all make personal decision as to what tyre is best for our vehicle but the only really important bit is that it has to suitable for the application ie size and load/speed rating etc, after this there are things like how long does the vehicle stand for as some people say that is the point of a camping tyre, how close to maximum weight will the tyre be running is the other camping tyre argument, price comes into it of course, what road condition snow ice desert etc.

Personally our MH did not come with camping tyres originally so nobody can use that one against me, although I did fit two new front Michelin camping, I have now fitted a full set of Conti fourseasons with mountain and snowflake for legality in German winter and speed rated to be legal in the summer in Italy and a load index way over what we need so plenty in reserve. These tyres were being fitted at the Niesmann+Bischoff factory to £150K plus machines last November so if they are good enough for them they are OK for me.

Martin


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## BillCreer

Agree with all you say Martin, however, you don't need "mountain and snowflake for legality in German winter " as you only need the M&S marking.


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## cabby

Have we actually had on here a definitive answer as to the difference between the CP tyres and others, in respect of the quality of rubber the number of ply in the wall,tread etc. 
Are winter tyres only different in tread, or do they have a significant difference to warrant only using them in the cold weather.
Come to that, what about tyres for rain grip, do they have more flexible walls and tread that disperses the road water.

No I am not looking for cheap tyres to put on my expensive motorhome. But I do not want to pay for something that is not.

cabby

I do know which tyre is best for a black cab.   :roll: :wink:


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## VanFlair

BillCreer said:


> Agree with all you say Martin, however, you don't need "mountain and snowflake for legality in German winter " as you only need the M&S marking.


Hi Bill

Yes I agree with your point about M+S being OK, but from my personal preference I went for the full mountain and snowflake fourseasons as the tread had more of the snow features (sipes I think they are called) and they are good in the mud as well.

Martin


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## Jeannette

TheNomad said:


> Jeannette said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are the correct fitment for a motorhome, they have stiffer walls and area meant for carrying load. Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a little time spend reading the full post before you lock and load....

What part of:



> Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve
Click to expand...


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## TheNomad

Jeannette said:


> TheNomad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeannette said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are the correct fitment for a motorhome, they have stiffer walls and area meant for carrying load. Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps a little time spend reading the full post before you lock and load....
> 
> What part of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't miss any of it thanks Steve. Especially not the assertion that "they are the correct fitment for a motorhome".
> 
> A (say) 112 load index tyre, whether it be marketed as "Camping" with the inevitable price premium, or not, is designed/rated to carry just the same load (weight) up to its speed rating maximum.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## cabby

I would now say that the fitting of tyres comes to a choice of tyre by the owner, who can take on board advice from the tyre supplier on the different characteristics of each available.
the main criteria being that it meets the standard in quality and use required by the insurance companies. 
The only way we can ascertain which may be better is by having a chart/graph, of the most popular makes of van and tyres and the various weights and having members send in their findings every 6 months for the next 5 years.
By this time of course the manufacturers will have changed or discontinued that tyre.

so maybe one of us can run a vote score thread judged on weight, over or under the 3.500t and the four/five most popular tyres. 

cabby


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## Jeannette

> Didn't miss any of it thanks Steve. Especially not the assertion that "they are the correct fitment for a motorhome".


Erm, so why are they universally fitted to motorhomes by the manufacturer?

Seriously, you may have fitted an alternative to yours, which I suspect by your zealous stance is probably the case. I have no issue with that at all and am open minded enough to accept alternates.

However.... As far as the manufacturers are concerned and a lot of insurance companies they are the 'correct' fitment for a motorhome. If you choose to use an alternate that is entirely your choice, but it does not change that as far as the manufacturer is concerned they are the 'correct' fitment....


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## The-Cookies

we have khumo 2225 65 16 commercial tyres on ours more rated in weight than the previous Michelin's, these where recommended by local tyre dealer who fits them to local camper dealers vans, 15,000 miles and 2 years on ours no problems only slightly more road noise, half the price of camping car tyres.

I would think commercial tyres have to take more abuse than camper tyres, i too would welcome real facts as to what is or is not suitable.

John


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## Tucano

Personally I always go for CP's and I am happy to pay the extra money, other people are happier with other choices, long may individual choice remain.

Take care,
Norman.


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## cabby

I am sorry to interfere in this debate going on between you two, but please clarify "lot of insurance companies demand camper tyres".
so far all the ones I have asked (8) are satisfied if the tyres fitted match the size and loading for the vehicle. 

Still NO ONE has come up with the answer of what the difference is between a commercial van tyre and the camper tyre. of the same rating. 

just two honourable members arguing about the words suitable and correct, but neither qualified enough to be right. 

The only way this will be put to bed is if Michelin can tell us why and how their CP tyre is better structurally than an alternative tyre. 
Otherwise refer to my previous post.

cabby

no one has asked me yet what tyres are best for a taxi. :roll:


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## Stanner

> ="Jeannette
> 
> Erm, so why are they universally fitted to motorhomes by the manufacturer?


Erm - they aren't!

They are not available in all sizes fitted to motorhomes.

The Transit based m/homes I have seen do not always have CP tyres fitted as original equipment.


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## VanFlair

No all manufacturers do not fit camping tyres.

If you go to the Michelin web site they recommend three tyres for motorhomes. Agilis+ Agilis camping and Agilis alpin for snow.

Try reading this for an explanation of camping tyres.

http://whichtyres.com/2012/05/do-i-need-camping-tyres-for-my-motorhome/

Again it's just somebody's opinion.

Martin


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## TheNomad

Jeannette said:


> Didn't miss any of it thanks Steve. Especially not the assertion that "they are the correct fitment for a motorhome".
> 
> 
> 
> Erm, so why are they universally fitted to motorhomes by the manufacturer?
> 
> Seriously, you may have fitted an alternative to yours, which I suspect by your zealous stance is probably the case. I have no issue with that at all and am open minded enough to accept alternates.
> 
> However.... As far as the manufacturers are concerned and a lot of insurance companies they are the 'correct' fitment for a motorhome. If you choose to use an alternate that is entirely your choice, but it does not change that as far as the manufacturer is concerned they are the 'correct' fitment....
Click to expand...

"As far as the manufacturers are concerned and a lot of insurance companies they are the 'correct' fitment for a motorhome".

What?
Sorry, but where did you get that from?

No they aren't.

There are plenty of motorhome converters in the UK, and all over the rest of mainland Europe too, who do not fit "camping" tyres to any of the new units they sell. Some do, some don't.

And never ever have I heard of any insurance company specifying such a thing. Not in the UK, and not in Spain.

I'm happy to be proved wrong on this if such is the case, so I'd be grateful for links to evidence to support these two claims please.


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## peedee

TheNomad said:


> There are plenty of motorhome converters in the UK, and all over the rest of mainland Europe too, who do not fit "camping" tyres to any of the new units they sell.


Yup and mine is one of them, I have commercial tyres on all 6 wheels, all are Michelin Aglis.

peedee


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## Jeannette

I have Michelin Agilis on mine which have camping next to them.......


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## Old-Muso

My Autocruise Starburst(08) had Michelin Agelis Camping (front) and XC Camping (rear). I thought this was unusual but was assured by the dealer it was for different axle loading.
Anyone else come across this particular arrangement on a new vehicle?


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## Jean-Luc

Old-Muso said:


> My Autocruise Starburst(08) had Michelin Agelis Camping (front) and XC Camping (rear). I thought this was unusual but was assured by the dealer it was for different axle loading.
> Anyone else come across this particular arrangement on a new vehicle?


XC Camping were the predecessor of Agilis Camping and were an inferior product compared to their replacement. 
Your dealer unfortunately fed you some bull$h1t :roll:


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## camoyboy

Just to add a slight twist to this thread. A white van man just turned up to deliver some parts in a brand new Transit. Guess what tyres were fitted, Pirelli Chrono "Campers"!!

So Ford must think they are worth the extra, or they got a job lot cheap as motorhomers weren't buying them.

Colin


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## cabby

old-musso maybe you should check the dates on your tyres.

cabby


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## PF13

Cabby

I would be really interested in the best tyres for a black cab.

I am on the edge of my seat here....

PF


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## Glandwr

Reason for Camping Tyres? Simple, white van tyres turn almost every day of the year. Some campers will turn on maybe a handful of times a year. Camping tyres have reinforcement to stop them going oval after lengthy stands.

If you use your van regularly either will do. Also just looked into my van's (Hymer) manual. Strict specifications for the tyres but no mention of brand or if they have to be campers  

Dick


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## VanFlair

Glandwr said:


> Reason for Camping Tyres? Simple, white van tyres turn almost every day of the year. Some campers will turn on maybe a handful of times a year. Camping tyres have reinforcement to stop them going oval after lengthy stands.
> 
> If you use your van regularly either will do. Also just looked into my van's (Hymer) manual. Strict specifications for the tyres but no mention of brand or if they have to be campers
> 
> Dick


I have never seen or heard any complaint about tyres going oval, don't know if anybody else has.

Martin


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## cheshiregordon

VanFlair said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reason for Camping Tyres? Simple, white van tyres turn almost every day of the year. Some campers will turn on maybe a handful of times a year. Camping tyres have reinforcement to stop them going oval after lengthy stands.
> 
> If you use your van regularly either will do. Also just looked into my van's (Hymer) manual. Strict specifications for the tyres but no mention of brand or if they have to be campers
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> I have never seen or heard any complaint about tyres going oval, don't know if anybody else has.
> 
> Martin
Click to expand...

If your vehicle was bought new then there is a good chance that it was supplied with a specific camping tyre. Continental, Michelin & Pirelli all make these camper specific products although Michelin & Continental are certainly the most common. If you take a look at your current tyres and you may see wrote on the sidewall; Continental Vanco Camper, Michelin Agilis Camping or XC Camping - these are all 'proper' motorhome tyres.

So what are camping tyres?

These tyres are designed specifically for use on motorhomes, the main difference is that they have tougher sidewalls. This toughness helps in 2 ways, firstly they are more suitable to run at higher pressures that are required for motorhomes, and secondly the rigidity reduces tyre movement and stops the vehicle from swaying around, particularly whilst cornering. There are also subtle differences in the tread compound which gives the tyres improved grip on wet surfaces and some differences in construction that make the tyre more resistant to abrasions & impacts.

Can I use normal van tyres?

Absolutely, it is still legal and safe to use regular van tyres as long as the load rating is high enough to carry the weight of the vehicle. By using a standard van tyre you will of course not benefit from the features detailed above. The main reason people fit standard van tyres is because of the cost implications of fitting motorhome tyres. The camper equivalent tends to be about 15% more which can equate to upwards of £60 a set. Personally I think the cost is justified and worth the additional cost.


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## Whatton

The owners manual for my Dethleffs lists the recommended tyre pressures for Michelin camping tyres and also the recommended pressures for the non camping equivalent, lower than the camping ones.

In doing so they're saying that you needn't only use camping tyres and that normal van tyres are ok too, but you should adjust the tyre pressure to suit the tyre.

Saying that, as per the post above, the camping tyres seem to have some benefits.

You can make up you're mind if those benefits outway the extra cost.


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## mentaliss

TheNomad said:


> Jeannette said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are the correct fitment for a motorhome, they have stiffer walls and area meant for carrying load. Van tyres can also be used but have a different ride to them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think they are actually "the correct" fitment for a motorhome at all.
> 
> They are certainly A POSSIBLE fitment, but they are not the only possible fitment by a long way.
> 
> The same tyre make/size/load profile but without the "camping" monicker is also a perfectly possible and usually significantly less expensive fitment; as are other makes, to the same profile and load bearing index.
Click to expand...

 I totally agree there is far to much hype regarding camper van tyres plus there is no REAL evidence to support camper tyre Paranoia...I have just come back from a Dethleffs/ Hymer/ Auto trail Dealer and the majority of all the NEW vans there were shod with Continental Van tyre's


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## acctutor

*Michellin tyres*

Hi, Our new Frankia was delivered with 225 x 75 x 16 Agilis tyres with a load rating of 116. I have discovered that these are operating at maximum load.

Also discovered the Conti Vanco same size have a load rating of 121 - guess which I will be choosing in future???

All the best from Isny - S germany

Bill & Patsy


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## Stanner

My Dentist likes me to use camping tyres at maximum pressure.

It pays for his cruise. :roll:


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## cabby

For PF13 because he asked. :wink: :wink: 

black round very cheap ones.     :twisted: :twisted: 

cabby


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## VanFlair

Hi cheshiregordon

Our van came with Michelin Agilis 81 not the XC which is the camping I believe, it is now on Continental fourseasons as they have a better load rating than the camper tyre and mountain/snowflake is better than M+S in my opinion, and it's what the factory fit.

Martin


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## Glandwr

VanFlair said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reason for Camping Tyres? Simple, white van tyres turn almost every day of the year. Some campers will turn on maybe a handful of times a year. Camping tyres have reinforcement to stop them going oval after lengthy stands.
> 
> If you use your van regularly either will do. Also just looked into my van's (Hymer) manual. Strict specifications for the tyres but no mention of brand or if they have to be campers
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> I have never seen or heard any complaint about tyres going oval, don't know if anybody else has.
> 
> Martin
Click to expand...

*****************************************

It's a well known phenomenon with cross ply tyre and as such affects classic car owners who put their vehicles on blocks for the winter and as the link illustrates it can also happen with radials if they are left standing for 4 months or more, especially with 4/5/6 tonnes on them..

The manufacturer quoted does say though that radials can recover after a "long" journey if the tyre gets hot.

Now chemicals engineers and tyre designers designing a tyre for campers would have the fact that many, if not most of them, will stand for at least 4 months of the year without moving pretty high up in their design specification (if only to avoid warranty claims) and those designing van tyres pretty low on their design specification. They would not be doing their job if they didn't.

I had campers on my van when I had it. 2 years ago I changed to M&S non campers. Like stanner I would definitely not go back. A much smoother, quieter and pleasanter ride. OK there is very slightly more wallow but I consider that a price worth paying. Especially considering the 15% that has been said is the premium charged for campers. Understandable really when you consider the very small economies of scale that they would get compared to van tyres.

Thread on flat spots here

Dick


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## The-Cookies

ok so can someone explain then why if i fit commercial tyres which i have ,the pressure i have in is 58 psi all round,which seems to be the best pressure for comfort and ride and recommended by the tyre dealer , yet if i fit camper tyres they need or have a maximum pressure of around 80 psi, which must be like riding on solid tyres, inddeed when i previously had campers i ahd to lower the pressure to around 68 to get a decent ride.

John


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## Glandwr

To have less wall distortion when standing so as to avoid flat spots. Just a guess I don't know but in the absence of another reason I'll start the bidding with that one  

Dick


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## Tissy

Hi All
sorry to jump in on this thread but i have campers on my van which is just over 3 years old.
the tyres have covered about 19000 miles looking closely at them in the sunlight i noticed small like finger bulges on the side walls.
should i be worried??
thanks
Tissy


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## Glandwr

I would say get expert advice Tissy. Do you have a garage you trust?

Dick


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## Tissy

thanks Dick
Just looked at the the works despatch and noticed the same small bulges on the rear tyres both camper and van are Michelin's


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## Jean-Luc

Tissy said:


> thanks Dick
> Just looked at the the works despatch and noticed the same small bulges on the rear tyres both camper and van are Michelin's


Are they bulges or indentations :!:


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## Tissy

they are indentions more than bulges
thanks for asking
tissy


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## BillCreer

They are probably just harmless marks in the tyre and someone posted a similar thread a while ago. I think Michelin reassured him that the tyres were perfectly ok.
There is a possibility though that they are a signs of casing failure and it is probably best to have an "expert" inspect them.


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