# Is 'Hook Up' going to become unwanted ?



## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

I'm not trying to predict the future here, but it crossed my mind the other day that with solar panels becoming more efficient and easier to install. Are sites with Hook Up going become less popular. 

I also believe new models of Motorhomes and Caravans already have the panels installed, or if not a socket point to plug portable panels into.

I must admit i use so little power when out and about especially in summer, that i rarely go to hook up sites, so i more or less pay half for a pitch as i tend to use cl's without Hook Up.

Add to this i have just bought a 100w folding panel the chances of me paying for electric are minimal. 

Do you find CL's with hook up will allow you to stay if you don't plug in ? Thus charging you a lot less to stay. I've never inquired. 

Interested in you opinions.

Freddiebooks


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Freddiebooks said:


> I'm not trying to predict the future here, but it crossed my mind the other day that with solar panels becoming more efficient and easier to install. Are sites with Hook Up going become less popular.
> 
> I also believe new models of Motorhomes and Caravans already have the panels installed, or if not a socket point to plug portable panels into.
> 
> ...


Hi.

I think you would struggle in the winter months, or even this week :roll: .. We go away from the beginning of Dec to the beginning of April to Spain and Portugal, no way could the 120 watt solar panel keep up all the time.

Sometimes the Genny has to go on, if we are travelling the leisure batteries get charged, but having to sit and eek out the power all the time would be a bit (cough) draining, so we do go occasionally on to campsites just to be able to use leccy without behaving like Scrooge.

And that's bliss :lol: :lol: :lol:

ray.


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## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

Although we have twin batteries and a 140 watt solar panel I don't think we would last long without mains in the winter up here (NE Scotland). We don't plug into the mains at all during our month in Germany but there was plenty of sunshine.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

More modern vans have more power hungry appliances. We also need more power for chargers and communication devices.
I doubt a roof of solar panels would manage to keep the batts topped up in the northern hemisphere.

I see many large RVs along the southern US states 'Boon-Docking' and even with great banks of panels they still have to be careful.

Ray.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Although I've got a solar panel

a) I prefer hookup so I don't need to run the fridge & heater on gas

b) I've heard some frightening tales about the longevity of batteries when submitted to a reasonably deep cycle. It's probably worth doing the maths on how much a battery costs per charge...e.g. if (has been said on other threads) the expected life of a battery is 300 cycles, that'd be 30-40p per charge...

c) although I can live without a hookup, I *do* prefer to have hardstanding. Most sites with hardstanding also provide hookup.

So no, I don't believe EHU's are going anywhere soon.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Is 'Hook Up' going to become unwanted ? my response is No but it should be!

Thank you Freddie for throwing the cat among the pigeons. Let us see who leaps to the defence of the indefensible.

PV Solar power has come of age and is quite capable of providing independence of EHU provided one installs adequate solar to create it and batteries to store it. 

Having installed it, I went for 2 years without EHU. I now object to the CC or ACSI or anyone else including it for free or charging me for it when I don't kneed it. Give me some benefit for having done so.

And then in the Waitrose check out queue I am made to feel guilty for wanting a plastic bag to carry my expensive purchases home, a bag I will recycle with my rubbish.

This is about being Green and helping the planet. Think how you can avoid EHU rather than defending your right to be dependent on it. CC take note.

Ask not what EHU can do for you, but what you can do to avoid it. 

tin hats onand duck!


.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

andrewball1000 said:


> Is 'Hook Up' going to become unwanted ? my response is No but it should be!
> 
> Thank you Freddie for throwing the cat among the pigeons. Let us see who leaps to the defence of the indefensible.
> 
> ...


Hi.

Take your point..But!..As you trundle all over carting the extra weight of your solar panels plus increased drag from them mounted on your roof, and the extra weight of the extra batteries, are you not using more fuel carting this about adding to the green house gasses and still using precious resources doing it just like the folk who do use EHU's..

And I suppose the plastic carrier bag you put your rubbish in still takes hundred of years to break down, so maybe that isn't that green either!..

Just a thought.

ray.


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## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

As already as been said during winter no chance
I'm at hamble and it's 8 th day off hook up and as any one can vouch who's been here weather as been dire at times , have 330ah of batteries and 280 watts of solar 
Swmbo likes. Her tv at night so feeding tv sky box through inverter
Toaster in morning, occasional microwave use, charging phones , lap top etc not seen batteries not fully charged by 1pm,
So in theory yes hook up can be avoided
On the other side of the argument where's the incentive to do it 
I fitted and sourced the solar panels , batteries etc myself then with the cost of gas to be taken into consideration with a saving of £2-£3 per night to go without hook up it would take years recoup your hard earned money. We went down this route as we go on a few rallies and shows etc where hook up is not available, and we're totally independent no matter where we end up
Mark


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

[quote="rayrecrok".But!..As you trundle all over carting the extra weight of your solar panels plus increased drag from them mounted on your roof, and the extra weight of the extra batteries, are you not using more fuel carting this about adding to the green house gasses and still using precious resources doing it just like the folk who do use EHU's..[/quote]

love it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't forget the Waitrose carrier bags they weigh a lot too!


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Just had eight days away at a rally. No EHU, in fact cannot remember last time we used EHU. 80W roof mounted panel, 220A of battery. Only regret is possibly having the panel roof mounted as a portable would be twice as efficient.
Comfortably manage 5day rally every New Year with no extra assistance for the batteries.
Gerry


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

andrewball1000 said:


> [quote="rayrecrok".But!..As you trundle all over carting the extra weight of your solar panels plus increased drag from them mounted on your roof, and the extra weight of the extra batteries, are you not using more fuel carting this about adding to the green house gasses and still using precious resources doing it just like the folk who do use EHU's..


love it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't forget the Waitrose carrier bags they weigh a lot too![/quote]

Absolutely :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ray.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

andrewball1000 said:


> Ask not what EHU can do for you, but what you can do to avoid it.
> 
> tin hats onand duck!
> .


Hmm...interesting.

Let's take it as a given that the EHU points are installed on the site, and the question is, whether to use them.

For the fridge/heater, which is most efficient;

1) Electric : considering relative efficiency of generation/distribution, but not forgetting that most consumption in winter will probably be when the grid is idle hence power stations etc will just be ticking over, or

2) Running off grid : carbon cost of manufacturing/distributing propane to do same.

Discuss.

I don't know, but I'd sort of suspect that based on scale economy, (1) is greener.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

gnscloz said:


> As already as been said during winter no chance
> I'm at hamble and it's 8 th day off hook up and as any one can vouch who's been here weather as been dire at times , have 330ah of batteries and 280 watts of solar
> Swmbo likes. Her tv at night so feeding tv sky box through inverter
> Toaster in morning, occasional microwave use, charging phones , lap top etc not seen batteries not fully charged by 1pm,
> ...


good on yer Mark for investing to be independent. My point is that it is within our abilities to connect to EHU only when we need to rather than than to extract every every amp just because we are paying for ir it even though we don't need it. So if we go onto the campsites that include EHU, don't plug in till the batteries go flat then let solar replenish them.

Let's give an incentive to those who have invested on being Green.;


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

andrewball1000 said:


> gnscloz said:
> 
> 
> > As already as been said during winter no chance
> ...


Hi.

You better not say that to My wife she would soon have you chucked out on your ear.. Hook up there and not use it.. :lol:

Anyway deep cycling your batteries are going to wear them out in no time, you will have to buy new ones which is going to cost the planet resources, plus you can have a lot of hook up time for the price of new batteries..

Woo! go green, use a hook up and don't be mean.. There you go I'm a poet an I didn't know it :wink: ..

ray


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

andrewball1000 said:


> don't plug in till the batteries go flat then let solar replenish them.
> 
> Let's give an incentive to those who have invested on being Green.;


Oo, alternate Green question then. I don't know the answer. Which is most green

i) using EHU
ii) letting battery go repeatedly to 50% so ultimately it has to be replaced, carbon cost of producing a battery and recycling what is considered v.toxic waste?


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Coming back to the original question about EHU being needed, I don't know. I think probably not with a M/Home.

Like many I have 85w of solar and 220ah of battery. I also have led lights throughout.

What I have come to realise is that I sit in the gloom with one light on, watching the telly only when there is something on I really want to watch! One eye on the TV, the other on the voltmeter!

If you are touring France in the summer, where it doesn't get dark until well after 10 at night and you are sat outside with a barby or whatever then you don't need much electric. What you use has been replenished by 10 in the morning anyway.

Winter is a different matter. Solar Panels generate power when you don't need it. I think the future for me will be a generator.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

One thing i always say to my friends and colleagues is that it's fascinating how little you do actually need to get by on when in your camper. 

My 5 year old 110ah battery can last me over a week. Mainly just the pump, and a bit of lighting, and the occasional episode of Auf Weidersehen Pet (series one and two). I use gas (gaslow) for the fridge, heating and cooking etc

I know many people enjoy home comforts, which i do up to a point as i have a pretty newish van, but i like life on the road to be different than conventional home life. Thats what attracts me to it, and why i went down the camper van route rather that B & B's, hotels etc when going away. 

I feel a little hard done by that you can still be charged for electric even if you don't use it. 

Anyhow, my portable panel has arrived and it looks grand. I'll enjoy using it on cl's without hook up. But i agree, when winter comes, the old hook up does come in handy. 

Freddiebooks


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hiya

In the June 2012 issue of the Camping and Caravanning Club mag theres a small review of Baileys new Orion caravan 

After an M&E engineer looked into a caravans whole life energy usage as far as she could, it was established that the biggest factor was the extra fuel the towcar needed when hitched up, 60% of its life energy usage!

On that basis, and reflecting modern facilities I suppose, this new caravan has no oven or leisure battery to save 100kg as well as tweaked aerodynamics to save fuel. Still 1005kg MIRO, 1152kg max.

In our experience, our 200+watts of solar are entirely useless in Scotland in winter. On the Med in the summer they're fab 

Jason


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Interesting red herring Andrew - I love it. :wink:

Carbon cost of manufacturing solar panel.

Carbon cost of transporting from (probably) Japan.

Ditto moving around the UK from importer to distributor.

Ditto all of above (to some degree) extra battery - almost essential to make best use of panel.

Carbon cost of disposal of panel and prematurely retired batteries due to excessive deep cycling.

Carbon cost of making and tansporting control panel - see all of above!

Waitrose carrier bag irrelevant. It's a total myth that they last 1,000 years. I've yet to find one that lasts all the way back to the car!! :roll: :lol: :lol:

Jesting aside - all such discussions are very interesting, but far deeper than at first they appear. Very difficult and complex to take *everything *into account and therefore make a balanced judgement.

Dave 

P.S. I haven't got room for a panel on my roof (sob!). Not one that would give more than about 40 watts anyway (sob again!) :wink:


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> Interesting red herring Andrew - I love it. :wink:


Forget Red herrings and think about green ones!


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

averhamdave said:


> Coming back to the original question about EHU being needed, I don't know. I think probably not with a M/Home.
> 
> Like many I have 85w of solar and 220ah of battery. I also have led lights throughout.
> 
> ...


Hi.

I think if you have the funds a combination of the two is best solar and generator, but one thing I found out is, make sure you get a generator that is big enough for your needs..

I have a 1000 Watt Honda, brilliant generator and economical to run, but it is not powerful enough to run the microwave and the water heater, everything else it is fine even the washing machine. So I will be getting a 2000 watt Honda for our year long trip next year which will hopefully run everything without tripping out..

Hope that helps.

ray.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

andrewball1000 said:


> Forget Red herrings and think about green ones!


On form tonight Andrew!

Fish oil stimulates the brain . . . obviously. :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

I think it's becoming clear, that for lets say 6 months of the year in this country, solar could cater for many peoples needs.

Which surely can only be a good thing, especially if in the future panels or those solar mat things start to become standard on leisure vehicles and more efficient. 

Plus baring in mind the vast majority of Motorhomers and Tuggers only venture out in the warmer months, i'd say that is a very large amount of consumption catered for by solar, making hook up redundant to many during that time of year. 

Would more sensible use of the solar help battery life too ? For example, only use it every other day, thus saving the cycling times.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> On form tonight Andrew!
> 
> Fish oil stimulates the brain . . . obviously. :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave


moving on from free wifi tomorrow so you will be safe.
Bye from Pula in Istria, where I had to go for swim to cool off..

Had to say that.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

averhamdave said:


> ..... What I have come to realise is that I sit in the gloom with one light on, watching the telly only when there is something on I really want to watch! One eye on the TV, the other on the voltmeter!.


Sounds like me. Until recently I had an led spotlight that took, get this, *5mA*! It actually lit a paperback at 20" just fine -- but it's been replaced now.


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Rosbotham said:


> [...... letting battery go repeatedly to 50% so ultimately it has to be replaced, carbon cost of producing a battery and recycling what is considered v.toxic waste?


I have split my batteries in two banks and for at least a year one battery has been knackered for whatever reason.

However, it is being recharged by solar on a continual basis and so I don't have to scrap it. When, and if, it fails during the night, I switch to the other bank and use that till the sun rise the next day.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

[/quote]

Hi.

I think if you have the funds a combination of the two is best solar and generator, but one thing I found out is, make sure you get a generator that is big enough for your needs..

I have a 1000 Watt Honda, brilliant generator and economical to run, but it is not powerful enough to run the microwave and the water heater, everything else it is fine even the washing machine. So I will be getting a 2000 watt Honda for our year long trip next year which will hopefully run everything without tripping out..

Hope that helps.

ray.[/quote]

Had already thought about that Ray. Originally thought that a 650w Honda would top up the batteries nicely - but that's all. So a 1kw Honda would be belt and braces - but then thought about the microwave etc so now am up to 2kw!


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

Rosbotham said:


> ..For the fridge/heater, which is most efficient;
> 
> 1) Electric : considering relative efficiency of generation/distribution, but not forgetting that most consumption in winter will probably be when the grid is idle hence power stations etc will just be ticking over, or
> 
> ...


3) how about solar? I have frequently been on a site where EHU is included where the batteries are stuffed full and the solar panels are producing excess amps they cant use. Then out of interest I have connected the inverter to the 240v supply and the fridge has kicked in to run off solar only. Where is this on your scale of economy?


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## Hymervanman (Aug 20, 2010)

Pot - Kettle - Black

Motorhomes and Green in the same sentence. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Afraid you are all delusional and suffering from being stuck inside whilst the rain falls. Perhaps you should all get out more

Lugging 3.5t+ round the countryside at 25ish mpg is never going to stack up as being green IMHO, so it is totally irrelevant about how green everyone can claim to be about solar panels etc.

Saw a great bumper sticker on a motorhome in Scotland this year.

" My carbon footprint kicks your eco-friendly arse"

Just love it ......................


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## Uller (May 29, 2010)

We have 80w solar panel and 110 battery - we have been travelling full time for the last year and realised in February (in Portugal) that we had fallen into the EHU trap - it was free on the campsite we were on so hooked up. We unhooked and have only had 2 days of EHU since end of Feb. Weather has been changeable since - northern Portugal, sunny but cold; northern Spain wet, grey & snow; through France everything from storms to bright sunny days.

We have LED lighting and quite a bit of tech - laptops, phones etc which we charge via the inverter. We don't have TV but use the laptop for watching stuff. OH works on the road so we charge it pretty regularly. All our appliances run on gas only - people complain about the cost of gas, but we have a 60l LPG tank which has cost us 77p per day over 12 months for fridge, daily showers, cooking & heating. Although we were in central Portugal for winter, we used the heating quite a bit - it got down to
-5°C overnight sometimes! Small price compared to €3-4 per night for EHU that we were seeing at campsites.

Of course, it depends on how you use your van - ours came with the LPG tank so we didn't have installation costs and as we were going to be fulltiming, installation costs of a solar panel were a no brainer.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

I personally find it absolutely hilarious that people contemplate going on a site and not use electricity if it is there just to save £2 - £3 a night for things for comfort, yet most will gladly go to a pub and pay £2 - £3 a pint just to pee it up.

I purchased a MH to go out and do the things I want to do when I want to do them, now if this costs me £5 - £10 a night extra :roll: I don't care, I am doing what I want to do and not having to worry about it.

I use solar panels because a lot of the time in summer and when touring we wild camp I have 270 watt of Solar panels and also an efoy 1600, and 220 ah batteries But no way do I think that EHU's are going to cease being needed, BUT if they were then the prices of sites would probably go up as well, When on meets or rallies without electricity I would never dream of skimping just to save a few bob :roll:  and in the winter electricity is definitely needed no matter how careful you are.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hiya

Its not just the cost of hook up electricity itself though. In some places the most convenient campsite is a belt and braces swimming pools, restaurants, kids entertainment, serviced pitch etc etc that does cost a lot, when all I want is some grass to park on. There seems a race to provide more and more regardless of need, just to see if they can charge even more every year. 


I wonder how "green" fultiming is compared to an average house?


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

grizzlyj said:


> Hiya
> 
> Its not just the cost of hook up electricity itself though. In some places the most convenient campsite is a belt and braces swimming pools, restaurants, kids entertainment, serviced pitch etc etc that does cost a lot, when all I want is some grass to park on. There seems a race to provide more and more regardless of need, just to see if they can charge even more every year.
> 
> I wonder how "green" fultiming is compared to an average house?


Yes, Totally agree with your comment, re the "Extras" but that wasn't in the OP.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

When i thought about this subject, it didn't cross my mind about saving 2 or 3 quid a night, and nor did i think... well i'm lumping 3 tonnes around at 27 mpg how "un green" am I. 

Personally speaking i am just not wasteful. One thing i find pretty unpalatable is how people live day to day lives wasting valueable resources. I mean, the Roman recycled 2000 years ago, yet only now are so called civilised society is cottoning on to the fact.

I wouldn't even say i'm conciously green, but it just so happens I am as a bi product of not being wasteful. 

So the slightly altered point is now..... do we think hook up for the vast majority who only tour in the fairer months has numbered days, and although we a creating a footprint getting to our destination..... Can We Leave a Much Smaller One on our Arrival ???


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

We as a society are taught to "Waste", i.e. "Sell by Dates" "Best Before" dates, modern society does not (This is NOT a personal attitude) think about whether a certain item is edible or non edible, the vast majority of "modern" adults look at the dates whether it be sell by or best before and if they have expired then it is in the bin, This is by a vast amount the biggest waste in the modern day lives, I was taught to "Not waste" as I was brought up in an age and a family that couldn't afford to "waste", If I couldn't eat all my meal it was saved and warmed up for another one, I to some degree still carry that lesson on.
My daughter came to my house just this morning and as per usual went to the fridge, there was a packet of cheese portions there which she loves, she got it out and immediately looked on the bottom of the box and the "Best before" date was 26-5-2012, she went to put it in the bin, I stopped her and asked her why, when she said I told her to put it back and explained to her that with cheese especially if it is "off" it is green, she still wouldn't eat it.
I regularly eat food that is Months out of "Date" and as yet I have never had a problem, I understand that now there is a plot afoot to "Scrap" these dates.
So taking all this into consideration I think that the incredibly small amount of "Waste" or "Non Green" that we as individuals are discussing with EHU usage or non usage is incredibly small at the side of other things.
I know we all need to "Do our bit" but I think other major items should be looked at first.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think we need to compare like for like.

If we want to look at the footprint of MHing then we should compare it to the footprint of the alternatives. Travelling in an aircraft, staying in hotels etc. When looked at that way I think MHing would compare very favourably.

As to the future of hook up, even though we don't use much power when connected I will continue to use it when the price is fair because it saves on gas to run the fridge and it prolongs the life of our batteries. I think hookup would be greener than having to replace the batteries more often although at the typical cost of anything from 2 to 4€ a day hookup works out more expensive than buying new batteries every few years, Alan.


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

SaddleTramp said:


> We as a society are taught to "Waste", i.e. "Sell by Dates" "Best Before" dates, modern society does not (This is NOT a personal attitude) think about whether a certain item is edible or non edible, the vast majority of "modern" adults look at the dates whether it be sell by or best before and if they have expired then it is in the bin, This is by a vast amount the biggest waste in the modern day lives, I was taught to "Not waste" as I was brought up in an age and a family that couldn't afford to "waste", If I couldn't eat all my meal it was saved and warmed up for another one, I to some degree still carry that lesson on.
> My daughter came to my house just this morning and as per usual went to the fridge, there was a packet of cheese portions there which she loves, she got it out and immediately looked on the bottom of the box and the "Best before" date was 26-5-2012, she went to put it in the bin, I stopped her and asked her why, when she said I told her to put it back and explained to her that with cheese especially if it is "off" it is green, she still wouldn't eat it.
> I regularly eat food that is Months out of "Date" and as yet I have never had a problem, I understand that now there is a plot afoot to "Scrap" these dates.
> So taking all this into consideration I think that the incredibly small amount of "Waste" or "Non Green" that we as individuals are discussing with EHU usage or non usage is incredibly small at the side of other things.
> I know we all need to "Do our bit" but I think other major items should be looked at first.


I totally agree SaddleTramp with all you have said.

But for the purpose of this discussion S T. Do you think that the vast majority of Tourers in the summer could live off solar rather than use hook up ? I'm not suggesting everyone goes out and buys solar at once, but when panels have become more standardised and built onto the van by manufacturers ?


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

SOME Could, But the vast majority could not, I know that a lot of the time we certainly could and do, But we tend to use sites with EHU also a lot of the time for numerous reasons, 1, a lot of sites don't give you the choice of elec or not, 2. we like to do a total top up after a hard period of battery usage, I think also that you will always get the ones that no matter what they can supply themselves will always use Hook up, I know a few like that myself and I am sure you do along with many others.
I am just talking MH's here and not caravans, Caravan's will always need EHU

The other thing also is that now Efoys are also being fitted as standard and Not Solar Panels, Mine was like that.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Just for shear conveniance and less weight to carry I think EHU are here to stay.
I have not seen a caravan with solar panels on the roof.

dave p


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Just for shear conveniance and less weight to carry I think EHU are here to stay.
> I have not seen a caravan with solar panels on the roof.
> 
> dave p


They are appearing on caravans, albeit slowly. There is a different culture for caravans.

My brother-in-law rallies nearly every weekend with his vintage vehicles. I had to explain about the advantages of LED lights and solar power but it was only when it sunk in that we NEVER use a hookup that he figured it out. He now has both and has never needed his generator since. His friends at the rallies have now done the same.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I caravanned for 25 years and never, ever used a hook up.
Just had one 12 volt battery and charged it up in the car's boot whenever we went for a drive.
We did have to be careful with elctric use especially in the winter.
The heater used no electric and water was heated on the hob.

The last night away was always celebrated by switching on all the lights until the battery ran out  .


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> I caravanned for 25 years and never, ever used a hook up.
> Just had one 12 volt battery and charged it up in the car's boot whenever we went for a drive.
> We did have to be careful with elctric use especially in the winter.
> The heater used no electric and water was heated on the hob.
> ...


I chatted to some tuggers this week when near Helmsley. They said they never use hook up. Two other caravans there had solar panels.


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