# dogs in season



## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

How do people cope with a bitch in season on campsites? Our Bonnie is now 13 months old and still has not had her 1st season, so what is the betting that she is waiting for our 3 week trip on the continent in June. Has anyone got any advice? We don't want to leave her behind if poss, as the whole trip is being planned with her in mind.

What do people suggest?

Happy travelling

Louise


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

weaver said:


> as the whole trip is being planned with her in mind.


You've planned a whole holiday around a PMT bitch ?


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I nearly posted something really dubious about the OH, then realised she could be keeping an eye on me via the network..... :roll: 8O


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dogs*

Hi

I am not a vet, so this is not professional advice, but what I did with my lady dog.

The "season" will start with a discharge - sort of clear coloured, then leading to a darker discharge and then returning to a clearer discharge as the season draws to a close.

You can buy doggy pants from the vets. This will prevent "accidents" on your carpets. If you can't get these - and don't laugh - a paid of old Y fronts will do - shove the dogs tail through the "opening" - you may need to cut the "Y" to get the dogs tail through. Be careful though as the dog could trip over her pants.

Keep the dog on the lead so that naughty boys can't have a quick one.

Be aware also that after a season, a dog may have a phantom pregnancy. Now please don't laugh at this - but Oscar had one - and yes - he was a boy. All the symptoms were there - nesting and so on. The vet was amazed. Oscar had a "baby" - it was a teddy bear.

Have a chat to your vet if you are unsure about anything.

Russell


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

My grandmother used to give her German Shepherd bitch a contraceptive pill from the vet, although I don't know whether that would be suitable if she hasn't had her first season?

Good luck - I bought my cairn terrier when she was 15 months old. I intended to have her spayed but she came into season within a day or two. That's the only time in his whole life that my labrador has been off his food. 8O It was a nightmare - she was at the vet's for the op as soon as possible. 

Viv


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

thankfully mines been done.

none of that nappy stuff for me......


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

bandaid said:


> thankfully mines been done.
> 
> none of that nappy stuff for me......


Is this still the OH you're on about? :lol:

Viv


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well as it happens....no, in that circumstance, that'd be me.


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

Thanks for the helpful comments! Not sure about the rest!

As this is our first trip abroad and we have spent a lot of money on rabies injections, we did badly want to take Bonnie with us, and have just booked a campsite in Holland partly because it will accept dogs, even though we had originally thought to go elsewhere, but no dogs allowed. We also don't like to leave her at home for 3 weeks, firstly because it is a long time and she is very much part of the family, and secondly because she needs careful grooming once a week. The kennel try very hard, but are not confident in grooming her thoroughly enough.

My main concern was taking Bonnie to do her business on campsites. Also wondered if the van would attract unwanted attention from other dogs. We had planned to use public transport to visit various places, but suppose we could take the van to most of them. We are planning to visit family whilst we are there for the first week and then to wander off either to France or Germany, not decided where yet.

Have seen the pants in the pet shop and thought them a good idea.

Thanks to Russell and Viv for trying to help.

Happy travelling to all

Louise


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

Hi Louise

Roxy (our border collie) came into season while we were motorhoming in the Cotswolds earlier this year. We were staying on a couple of CC sites, so the 'all dogs on leads' rule was a help. Basically, all we had to do was make sure Roxy was either walked on her lead or only allowed a brief off-the-lead run in places where there were no other dogs.

We had no trouble with dogs gathering around the motorhome, in fact no more trouble than we'd have had at home. So I'm sure you'll all enjoy your hols if you just keep a wary eye open for Romeo Rovers.


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## GypsyRose (May 9, 2005)

One of our Yorkie girls was 18 months when she finally had her first season! It may not be the problem that you anticipate as long as she is kept on a lead of course...after all there should be no stray dogs wandering around on campsite? 
ps she is lovely btw!! Ana x


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Do remember that bitches, too, will wander in search of a mate!! I speak from bitter experience. It was many years ago now but I took my, in season, bitch for a pee in the park. No dogs in sight....... let her off for a quick run.......he must have been a speck in the distance (I certainly didn't see him)..........she was off like a shot.......by the time I got over to them it was too late    
There is a time right in the middle of the three week season when a bitch is ready to mate when she will actively seek out a dog. Some are worse than others    
The Dogs Trust now spey bitches pre first season. They have done a lot of research and come down on the side of this option. Worth considering in conjunction with veterinary advice??
Good Luck
Pat


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

patp said:


> The Dogs Trust now spey bitches pre first season. They have done a lot of research and come down on the side of this option. Worth considering in conjunction with veterinary advice??
> Good Luck
> Pat


This is interesting Pat.

I always thought it was best to let them have a season or two before spaying.

Have you any more information please?

Cheers


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

Thank you, all, for your helpful advice! Sounds as if we won't need to worry too excessively! 

We had 2 different vetinary opinions on spaying. The younger vet advised spaying at 6 months. Advantages, reduces the risk of womb infection to almost nil and also considerably reduces the risk of mammary tumours. Disadvantages - greater chance of stress incontinence, particularly in old age, and some people say the dog never matures completely. 

The older vet said she would have her own dogs spayed after the first heat. The increased risks of womb infection and tumours is only fractionally greater and the risk of incontinence is reduced. Also, she felt she would prefer the dog to mature. Having said that, the risks of not spaying increase with age, even more if the dog is not bred from.

We decided to have Bonnie spayed after her first heat, but through meetings of the Shetland Sheepdog club, have been encouraged to show her, and we would also like to have another Sheltie to keep her company. We are being encouraged to breed from Bonnie and keep one of the pups. We wouldn't have considered this before, but we have now found a willing helper who is an experienced dog breeder, so the thought of puppies is not quite so daunting. So we need to make the decision, breed or buy? 

Happy travelling

Louise


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

weaver said:


> So we need to make the decision, breed or buy?
> Happy travelling
> Louise


Breed.

It's a lot of work, but hugely enjoyable.

Only had three litters from our dogs, but it's an experience I would not have wanted to miss.


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

Thanks, Dave, that is what everyone says, but then adds lots of warnings "It's a lot of hard work! Can you stand the heartache when things go wrong? Are you prepared to be out of pocket? It's heartbreaking when the puppies leave! I always worry in case their new owners are not responsible dog owners. You hear such a lot about puppy farmers etc." 

I think we are swerving in the direction of breeding, but not absolutely decided yet!

Louise


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Louise - Buy - or better still stick to one dog. This is my advice as a professional behaviourist. Dogs do not need more company than the companionship that you provide. Bonnie may not like the other dog and then what are you going to do???
One dog is easier to manage than two. Sometimes, IF they bond with each other then they exclude you and your enjoyment goes down. I have seen so many behaviour cases that would not have happened if the owners had stuck to one dog. The only time I recommend getting another dog is when the current one is getting old. It often gives them a new lease of life and they help to bring up the new little one secure in their knowledge that they are loved by you.
If you breed your own litter - yes you get one for yourself but you could get another 6 or 7 or more! Some dogs have 13! there are too dogs in rescue to think about bringing any more dogs into the world. If I had my way I would ban all breeding for x number of years until all the poor dogs in rescue were homed - phew! that feels better - sorry its a bit of a soapbox of mine. I am sure you would take every care to sell them to perfect homes.

Dave - Louise has given you the veterinary reasons. I must admit to being old fashioned and waiting for the first season. Having said that the incontinence theory is still not entirely proven and is a minor and controllable problem compared to pyometra and mammary tumours so I can see the advantages of speying pre first season. I think the Dogs Trust just want the breeding to stop and have weighed up the pros and cons.

Pat


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## 2Dreamers (Jun 11, 2006)

we thought of breeding Jess with the intention of keeping a pup but decided against it for several reasons
- she is perfectly behaved in the MH and has a slot between the two cab seats - where would number two go?
- I would be too fussy about where the pups went and would want to keep them myself
- What if Jess and her pup, that we decided to keep, didn't get on. It often happens and would be impossible to make a choice between them.

On the speying front, Jess is now 7 years old and unspeyed. At our last visit the vet suggested, for the first time, that we should consider having her speyed. I thought he was just after boosting his holiday cash fund, but I am now worrying - how big is the threat of mammary tumours? We don't really want to have her speyed as he said she would get fat and her hair would go frizzy - not an attractive look


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

When I had a bitch...sorry, re-phrase that. When I owned a bitch ( still sounds bad), i used vetinary Amplex on her. Alleged to stop her giving off 'come on boys' odour.

Never sure how effective it was, we were all convinced she was a lesbian as she always cocked her leg!


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

* there are too many dogs in rescue to think about bringing any more dogs into the world. If I had my way I would ban all breeding for x number of years until all the poor dogs in rescue were homed - phew! that feels better - sorry its a bit of a soapbox of mine. I am sure you would take every care to sell them to perfect homes.*

Thats a great thought. When we were looking for a dog, I searched " dog rescue in the uk " and literally came up with hundreds of organisations ranging from the RSPCA to the most obtuse of breed rescue orgaisations.

Looking at some of the lists, there are tens of thousands of dogs in rescue centres throughout the UK. They need to be homed. My bloke was part of a litter from Northern Ireland, they've got so many, the RSCPA has to ship them out to the Mainland, and, according to the Website when I was looking a couple of years ago) they were bringing in van loads of abandoned or ill trested dogs 3 times a week.


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## 2Dreamers (Jun 11, 2006)

Can't agree more with Bandaids comment.

Our last two dogs were from Springer Rescue.


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

Just had a delightful visit from 2 1/2 year old grandson + dad! Matthew insisted on cycling to visit us, but when he arrived it turned out he wanted to watch the Maisie video we have got!

Back to the breeding subject. We had 2 dogs for about 20 years, and they each had their place in the pack. Guiness, our collie cross who died in January last year, was a most loveable rogue, but he was estimated as being 1 1/2 when we had him as a rescue dog, and had some traits we found very trying. If it hadn't been for the fact that we felt we had adopted him for life, he might well have gone back to the kennels. We found out afterwards he had already had 2 previous owners, and we got the impression that he might have been maltreated. He was bought to be company for our collie cross bitch, whom we had spayed, and their relationship was excellent. I agree that two dogs can be more trouble than 1, but on the whole I would say that Shelties seem to get on well together.

Because of all our problems with Guiness, we decided to have a pedigree dog this time, and chose a Sheltie as we had one of these about 35 years ago,

As to size of litter, Shelties are not very prolific breeders. Bonnie was one of a litter of 4 but there are a lot of litters with only 1 or 2 pups. Very occasionally someone has a 'large litter' of 6 pups, but I don't know anyone who has had one recently.

I feel that I am not being irresponsible in bringing unwanted pups into the world, as the Shetland sheepdog club has more people asking for pups than they have on their available pups list.

I fully agree that there are far too many dogs in rescue centres at the moment, but quite a few of these will cause difficulties in their new homes. Dogs more so than bitches, I think. Having said that, each dog is an indiviual, that is the delight of them! I haven't seen many Shelties in rescue centres and I did look when we first decided to have another dog. We had to do a fair bit of research to find a pup, and they cost a fair amount, so maybe that is part of the reason why they are not so frequently abandoned.

Anyway - just one point of view.

Happy travelling

Louise


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks Pat. Lots of good sense there, and the suggestion that two dogs might bond very strongly and "shut out" the owner is a consideration to be sure.

As for keeping two dogs, there is no such thing as "two dogs".

It goes from one dog to many dogs - or seems to. The biggest problem we found with two bitches, apart from the fighting (but that's another story) was how to know which one to scold when a crime had been committed.

For example, who piddled on the carpet, which of you little swine pinched my last Belgian chocolate, who ran off with my sock and where have you buried it???

Wouldn't be without one though - note the "one", much as I would like to have three or four, especially when we have just visited the Dogs Trust!!

Lessons learned.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

_*I haven't seen many Shelties in rescue centres and I did look when we first decided to have another dog. We had to do a fair bit of research to find a pup, and they cost a fair amount, so maybe that is part of the reason why they are not so frequently abandoned. *_

Shelties are expensive, but I dont think thats an indication of abandonment potential

English Mastiff. RRP ( :?: ) around £1000.....Godstone RSPCA £ years ao there were 5 of them 4 after a veisi from me.

Old English sheepdogs, about 800 squid, same time span 2 in Godstone.

GSD, what 750 squid, last year, Raystede recue, x2

But.....Scraggy hairy scruffbag border collie, sells for a bout 50p, none after my missus went there,

Belgian Shepherd. retails about 1200 pounds, i before I went to raystede.

( lost the Mastiff after 2 years to a massive coronary.  )

I dont believe cost is any factor if a dog will be abandoned.

IMHO


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

ooh, so , tenuously on subject, but.

Is it only my pair but ,

its only the bitch that nicks food from the bin, 

and its only the dog that rolls in sh1te.

My OH says its cos shes preparing for the relationship to mature into mutual respect, convesartion and exchange of emotional views, 
whereas he's just after a quickie. 

Both are...erm...have been adjusted, dunno if this has a bearing.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

I have been really pleased and happy that I got two dogs ( a bitch and a dog) as they are such good company for each other, I love to see them playing together............I wouldn't want more than two though.

Both of them also give us lots of love, and have their own personality.


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## Malc (May 9, 2005)

Hi,
We have two Cavelier King Charles both females. Our oldest (rescue about 10 years old) developed *pyometra* in January, to cut a long story short, the vet diagnosed the condition and operated within 2 hours such was the urgency.
We had the pup (10 months old) speyed to prevent the same happening the next week. The oldest dog had a complete removal of her womb (£700) and the youngest had the overies removed (£145). If you have seen the effects of 
pyometra, (Google it) you wouldn't hesitate bearing in mind, if you have made your mind up not to breed.
The speying is done via micro surgery and the cut is about 10mm long, the dog is up and about normally next day. Hope this is food for thought.
Malc


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi Malc, we too had ours 'done' last Nov and the vet charged around £200 for both of them, as you say the micro surgery is amazing our little girlie was fine straight away I was surprised when I picked them both up at 2pm to find hardly any difference to the two pooches I had left at the vets at 9am.


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

bandaid said:


> ooh, so , tenuously on subject, but.
> 
> Is it only my pair but ,
> 
> ...


I have an intact male lab who steals anything and everything he can get but has never rolled in anything.

I have a spayed female cairn who rarely steals but does roll in things. :evil:

Viv


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

blimmin dogs, I thought humans were s'posed to be the complicated species.


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

Now Bonnie both raids the bin and rolls in the **** in the fields, if she gets the chance!

Nothing is going to persuade me not to have another dog. She needs lots of lively company and adores socialising with other dogs. One dog would be fine if we had small children about more regularly to keep her lively, but we're a bit past it in active doggie terms. Would love to do agility with her, as she is tremendously agile, but my creeky hip puts paid to that! We shall learn what to do, but will have to go at a much slower pace!

We found with our other dogs (when we had 2 at a time) that they still trudged on behind us where-ever we went, but had the chance of a bit of play or a cuddle together when we were busy. Bonnie will make friendly gestures to the cats, but they are 15 and tend to move away fairly quickly, as they prefer a peaceful life. 

I think if the first dog is secure and the new one is a pup, they will adapt to each other very happily, providing you are careful that you make a big fuss of the first dog as well. A bit like a new baby in the family really!

Happy travelling

Louise


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