# have you got a scooter and lots of payload?



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ive posted a couple of times in the past about upgrading our swift kontiki to a newer model.

I kind of whittled the options down to either one of the big tag axle Euramobils which are rarer than hens teeth, an autotrail Arapaho which some say has questionable build quality or a newer kontiki which seems to have less payload than the old one we have.

Stumbling block is we really want to keep the rear lounge.

So. Do you have a scooter on a rack? If so what van do you have and has it got lots of payload?

Ideally it like to upgrade the bike to the new honda pcx which I think is around 130kg.

So which are the vans with the big payloads especially on the rear end?

I'll start there and then start worrying about the layout.

Thanks
Barry


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Err, maybe you might rethink your approach Barry 

I have a 250cc Vespa weighing 150kg dry weight. It passes all weight limits (maybe not Fiat vertical load on the chassis but the towbar is fine if that makes sense). In base trim the van had 815kg payload.

So all OK so far, but it's a panel van, which might not be the layout you want! 

You can't beat a wheel at each corner and a chassis "in excess" of the base van 

Dave


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

Why not put it on a trailor Barry spmething like this .

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/biketrailers.htm

Paul


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks guys but no pvc's or trailers. We may full time and are used to a big van and the convenience of a rack


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## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

Is this the type of van you're looking for?

http://www.leisurekingdom.co.uk/use...CTIVA+820+HS-2010/Properties/modelno-00019104

We have one (not leather interior) and can thoroughly recommend it.

You'll miss out on garaging a scooter, however, towbar or trailer would suffice.

Good luck and happy hunting!


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Consider ALL options  

The front end of the MH usually has some spare payload - not impossible to put the scooter rack on the front.

Legal??

A touch of Close Encounters..................


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

https://picasaweb.google.com/108495877005911654786/NewZealandShare#5336554167595474594


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## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

Changing tack slightly. We were in Rotorua a couple of weeks ago Dave and spent a leisurely morning in the Polyenisian Steam baths, just across the way, from the Gov building.
Oh the memories of a warm climate, now we are back in UK winter mode


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Very nice. Will do probably 6 weeks in South Island one day, but I reckon it will be a while yet :-(

Dave


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Barry mate, you will have to look at a lot of vans to find what you want and personally, I do not think there is one out there to suit your needs.

Keep an eye on self builds. Some motorhomers have a lot more savvy than the designers of factory built ones. You can go over 3.5T and have a lot of space and payload.

Cough, cough ...... mine has just had the interior seats re-covered in a tasteful blue. :wink:


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

barryd said:


> Thanks guys but no pvc's or trailers. We may full time and are used to a big van and the convenience of a rack


An Hymer S820 6 Tonner may suit your needs.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks guys

The big hymer is a new one so will look at that.

747, I like your van but wish they did a rear lounge model.

Looks like a Euramobil is still the obvious choice if I can find one


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Change of heart?

Mainly directed at DAB but I mentioned today to mrs d about pvc's and to my suprise she said she wouldn't rule one out! I'm gobsmacked to be honest although she hasn't seem one yet inside.

Dave. What van do you have and where can I see some
Pics
And stats?

The thing is we spend half our
Lives in the van and may full time. Can you do it in a PVC? Some stupid questions

Do they have showers and the same water and loo capacity as a big van. Shower is a must.

Do they have separate births either side by side or
Front and rear? When it's hot or if I have had a few we sleep in separate beds.

What about lounging? We love our rear lounge either for Lying about watching tv or made up as a bed. In summer we don't spend so much time in the van but in winter good lounging is important. 

Are they as well insulated? Our kontiki is grade three and so far we have been warm
Down to -18 outside. And do they have internal tanks, winterised? 

I assume as they are a van and not coach built they won't ever suffer from damp. Is this true?

I also like the idea of payload being more and presumably it drives
More
Like a car and better mpg?

I suspect it may be a leap too far
Though having got used to the space.

Interesting though.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Barry,

Just back from Easter in France.

http://www.murvi.co.uk/products/the-morello/

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=garage&mode=view_vehicle&CID=44

Plenty of pics in here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/daburleigh

No, I wouldn't full time in a panel van. But Morellos are used (with an awning) regularly to overwinter in Spain. Again, I wouldn't.

It suits us fine while we both work full time. Retirement is a whole new ball game and a different van entirely.

Good for damp. I wouldn't say they are particularly winterised but with a little effort they could be. Yes, inside fresh tank.

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Dave

The search continues!


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Brownhills still have my traded B675 SL 5 tonner in stock :wink: 

tony


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

You are a sensible and knowledgeable sort of fellow, so while you are on talking about PVC may I ask a couple of Qs

Obviously they are leak-proof from the outside, but what about condensation between the lining and the metal body? Do the converters fill this 'void' and with what? to avoid condensation and rust on the inside ot the metal skin?

Like your analysis above, I think a PCV is not for full-timing, and for that I would be happy with my Arto, but I have toyed with the idea of having a PVC just for w/e /summer use, and we have lots of parking space. 

I know it sounds flash to think of 2X MHs but since the Arto cost half the price of a new 'C' Class it would not altogether break the bank, since I have no car now. 

However PCVs do seem to be a bit expensive relative to an 'A' Class.

Bearing in mind we would use it for w/e-short trips are there some cheapies which would do the job?

If you wish, PM the answer.

Thanks Dave.

Geoff


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

GEMMY said:


> Brownhills still have my traded B675 SL 5 tonner in stock :wink:
> 
> tony


Now Tony's ex- van would be a good choice for fulltimimg, merc twin rear wheel, good payload, dependent on price obviously.

Paul.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Gemmy but it's too expensive and the wrong layout.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy a 3850 or 4005kg van and get the rear axle updated. I know of a member on here who updated a 3850 auto trail via svtech to 4100kg. All he did think was fit air ride suspension and the rest was paperwork.

I wouldn't be mind doing this and beefing up the rear axle if that's possible


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi Barry

I was under the impression that 'air-ride' couldn't update payload?!? it can just keep ride height when dealing with heavy loading.

The paper pushing exercise by the likes of Svtech make me smile... how is it that just a piece of paper seems to allow up-plating?? I suppose most chassis are in fact something like 3850kg and are downgraded to 3500Kg for license restrictions.

I can't see it's possible [stand to be corrected] to upgrade just an axel.

I noticed on our vision the axels are 2100kg [rear] and 1850kg [front] by my basic maths, I make this payload 3950Kg... for some reason though on paper we are on 3850Kg.

w


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

W, and me, how can air increase payload, the rides actually decrease payload by their actual weight. They can however decrease 'sag' and improve handlind and ride.

tony


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Dave
> 
> You are a sensible and knowledgeable sort of fellow, so while you are on talking about PVC may I ask a couple of Qs
> 
> ...


Geoff,

Yes, the Murvi has fully insulated roof, floor and walls, using Styrofoam blocks I think.

The Trigano Tribute used to be £25k new when it first came out, but those have rocketed in price.

Romahome R30 is smaller but quite nice if the beds suit, though I've just been horrified looking at the new price of one of those.

Dave


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

GEMMY said:


> W, and me, how can air increase payload, the rides actually decrease payload by their actual weight. They can however  decrease 'sag' and improve handlind and ride.
> 
> tony


In certain circumstances air ride can increase your GVW. On our last van we went from 4000kg to 4190kg through this.

Apparently SV tech had been involved in testing with mercedes.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

But HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!, they don't increase axle capability, just increase the weight.

tony


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> But HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!, they don't increase axle capability, just increase the weight.
> 
> tony


They do actually upgrade the rated axle capacity based on their own tests.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Maybe I should talk to svtech or perhaps alko?

Maybe you can get a heavier duty axle. I wouldn't be averse to spending a few grand extra to make this work if it's at all possible. I agree though I can't see how air ride would make a difference


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

When I spoke to SV Tech about a previous van of mine from memory the approximate order of things (which presumably varies depending on the chassis) was:

1. Paper upgrade of overall maximum without increasing maximum for
either axle.
2. Increasing the axle load for the rear axle by fitting tyres with a heavier load rating and (sometimes) by fitting air suspension. This could, for instance, result in a rear axle being upgraded from say 2,000 kg to (from memory) about 2,240. The air suspension itself weighs about 30 kg.

Whether this is sufficient will, of course, depend on you circumstances and your overhang. But an effective 200 kg upgrade will easily handle an additional load of (say) 30 or kg on the rack.

Then there is the question of what the rack/towbar itself can handle.

It is in dealing with this last question that I had Watling engineering build me a bespoke rack.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

barryd said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> The big hymer is a new one so will look at that.
> 
> ...


Have you looked at the N+B Arto LE GB? Has the layout i.e. rear lounge and from memory has a decent payload.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks guys

Just had a look online for a Niesmann + Bischoff Arto 74 LE GB and there doesnt appear to be much and they might be a bit pricey. The few images I found do show a rear lounge but no back window. That seems a bit bonkers to me but you can tell even from the photos the difference between that van and a Swift in quality is huge.

Going back to the SV tech thing then it would appear (without talking to them) that there are ways to actually improve the rear axle weight. So if a Standard Kontiki 645 with a short overhang but with only 500KG payload could be improved on the rear end by perhaps 150 to 200 KG then that might just do it.

I think I should talk to them. Perhaps there are otherways to beef up the back end? Im not really bothered how much it costs to do but I do want it to last maybe 5 - 10 years!

We looked at a few new PVC's today and loved them but they are just too small for full or part timing which is a pity as they are fantastic and if I was just bombing around for the odd few weeks or month then I would have on in a flash.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Tyres?*

Hi,
look at tyres on a single axle single wheel set up - whats the max loading on a 16" Ducato wheel - if you go heavy chassis - this will give you a clue as to max loading
Ray


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

barryd said:


> Thanks guys
> Going back to the SV tech thing then it would appear (without talking to them) that there are ways to actually improve the rear axle weight. So if a Standard Kontiki 645 with a short overhang but with only 500KG payload could be improved on the rear end by perhaps 150 to 200 KG then that might just do it.
> 
> I think I should talk to them. Perhaps there are otherways to beef up the back end? Im not really bothered how much it costs to do but I do want it to last maybe 5 - 10 years!


It's definitely worth giving them a call. I found them very helpful, and they gave me the answers I needed pretty much instantly.

If they can do it then the outcome may be that they tell you to upgrade your rear tyres and have a rear air suspension from Marcle Leisure fitted.

Again from memory I think it cost about £ 500 to have the rear air suspension fitted.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Camping Tyres?*

Hi,
Just thinking about the 2400kg rear axle loading on the heavy Ducato - with camping tyres at 116 load index the reccomended max load given the 90% rule would be 2250Kg
Needs a rethink? 
Ray


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

Ray,

116 load rating would give you 1,250 per tyre, so 2,500 for the axle.

Paul

Sorry - didn't read properly. Following the 90% rule, ok...

Mind you, many vans are standard specced with tyres that will mean they are pretty much on the limit when laden.


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

For instance the new Elddis Autoquest is specced with 109 rated tyres (1,030, for an axle max of 2,060). Yet the rear axle limit is 2,000 kg, so they would run it to about 97%


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