# Germany to charge foreign road users from 2016



## WildThingsKev

Looks like it will be similar to the Swiss system.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28199383

Kev


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## fatbuddha

there were some posts on here some while ago about this proposal - looks like it's getting closer to reality now.


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## Penquin

This has been raised before and is due to Merkel's partners in her coalition I believe, I suspect that it will be referred to the EU Commission and ruled as illegal (probably about 5 years after it has been introduced).

BUT I also suspect that Cameron is watching carefully and Osborne will see it as a new revenue raising exercise if it goes through....

It will affect "the free movement of goods" throughout the EU so will raise objections as it progresses.....

Whether it will be passed is where the next crunch point will come as if it goes Merkel will know she is heading into EU trouble and will weaken the EU by such actions - and in so doing will aid UKIP and it's avowed quitting of the EU as this will be used as a prime example of discrimination being used elsewhere within the EU.

All IMO of course....

Dave :roll: 8O


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## VJP

In the article it says that Austria has complained. Get rid of the Go Box system first before you whinge! Raw nevre - too right.

Vic


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## Penquin

But the Go Box applies to Austrians too I believe, so is NOT discriminatory...

the proposed German system is - the German residents will have the fees refunded, no-one else will.......

So Austria are not whinging but just stressing an obvious anomaly, the peage tolls applicable in France, apply to ALL vehicles and French residents are NOT refunded

the same goes for ALL other road tolls within Europe AFAIK - one rate for all and no refund for residents.......

Only Germany wants to charge "foreign" residents alone.......

that IS discrimination - and it is blatant.

Dave


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## Carl_n_Flo

Please excuse my ignorance here - and it is a genuine query - but surely, how can it be classed as 'discrimination' when other EU states openly charge for the use of their motorways?

Austria introduced the Go-Box because of the enormous increase in truck traffic crossing through toward Italy and the south-west. Additionally, this traffic was trying to avoid Germany as they already do impose a tarrif on all trucks and coaches using their roads.

I do agree, however, that it is very unfortunate - and slightly short-sighted - to lump 'leisure vehicles over 3.5T' with commercial vehicles in the Austrian system.

Carl

Sorry folks - I posted this whilst Penguin was typing too.
My query has been answered!!!! Thanks Dave.


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## Penquin

Always pleased to be of help Carl  

Glad I wrote it clear enough to make it understandable.

Dave


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## satco

well , to make it absolutely clear : most of the germans citizens aren`t sooooo fond of this new fund rising activity of the german government.
We will have to pay the same as we do yet , the child just gets another name. to explain how it works :

until end of 2015 every german car/bike/lorry/van owner will have to pay car taxes , the height of this tax is in accordance with the pollution class of the vehicle in question. for the being we have a toll system for trucks using the "autobahn" ( toll collect system)

from 1st of january 2016 we will have to pay car tax (reduced) plus the annual raod toll ( for every road) , this raod toll applies for transient traffic as well.

question arises , whether this regulation is subject to any "european" permission , which might become necessary.


finally we learn : German citizens will be paying the same amount of tax/toll as before (total sum). This will end up in another monster of bureaucrazy which costs some 200 billion Euro a year.

regards 
Jan


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## jonegood

IMHO Im ok about paying 1 euro/day to use the excellent road network that Germany provides.

I also find the Swiss Charges acceptable, and the italian tolls fairly reasonable.

I think the real problem here is Austria. The go-box is the most expensive and troublesome toll system in the area. It is a real shame that it classes so many Mhs as HGV's and thus deters so many tourists, including myself.

btw I have written to the transport ministry several times to suggest that we should be making HGV's pay for a tax disc to enter UK. There is no way that this is discrimitory and would help to level the feld for our own operators.


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## bigcats30

If this gets through...you will start to see other countries doing the same thing and before you know it it'll becomes extremely expensive to drive anywhere.

Toll roads I agree with as normally you get a nice stretch of uncongested well maintained road making your journey a little less stressful......but now you will have the pleasure of paying to sit in traffic jams.

Next you'll be paying for the air you breath.


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## Glandwr

We have been doing it for some months now. Charging foreigners to use our roads that is, only difference is that we had the good sense not to include cars and MHs 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2593608/Foreign-juggernauts-pay-drive-UK-roads.html

Dick


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## ob1

Dick - Are you sure as I've never heard about us charging foreigners in this way, although I admit my knowledge of everything is far from complete.  

I did note that the article was dated the 31st March and the next day is ?

Ron


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## Glandwr

Yep, the coalition after considerable lobbying from the RT industry, announced its intention to do it in 2012 and it has just been implemented.

I can't see us as first in the queue to complain about what the Germans plan 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19614862

Dick


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## 113016

Here Guys. The Government site

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy


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## Carl_n_Flo

Seems fair to me - but I would have thought that, to make enforcement easier, they would have required the display of a disc or sticker or similar to prove compliance.

Oh well, at least the govt coffers will have a few more pennies - although I doubt that any of it will be ring-fenced for road improvement...................


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## blondel

I saw a (very small) notice about it at Newhaven Ferry Terminal last month. As I had heard nothing about it on here I wondered if it was like the French breathalyser notices which are still up everywhere. 
:roll:


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## Glandwr

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Seems fair to me - but I would have thought that, to make enforcement easier, they would have required the display of a disc or sticker or similar to prove compliance.
> 
> Oh well, at least the govt coffers will have a few more pennies - although I doubt that any of it will be ring-fenced for road improvement...................


********************************************

 I think Industry lobbying and political party donations had more to do with it than fairness Carl. Surely for the rest of us, all it will do is to make everything slightly more expensive won't it?

And as far as the revenue is concerned, it gets into govt. coffers via the private companies that collect it. Given the way that companies such as Serco and G4S have abused their position and blatantly defrauded the govt. recently you wonder how much of the revenue will stick to their fingers in this contract 

Dick


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## Penquin

I wonder how the road charge levy will be enforced?

Will it be collected at the dockside or will they assume that vehicles will be honest......

traffic police?

parking attendants?

Highways Authority?

I suspect the vast majority of HGV drivers will simply follow Nelson and turn a blind eye to such things......

Dave


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## rayc

> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how the road charge levy will be enforced?
> 
> Will it be collected at the dockside or will they assume that vehicles will be honest......
> 
> traffic police?
> 
> parking attendants?
> 
> Highways Authority?
> 
> I suspect the vast majority of HGV drivers will simply follow Nelson and turn a blind eye to such things......
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure that with normal German efficiency and especially as money is involved, that the authorities will have a fast, user friendly scheme, in place in no time.
> A German Emissions disc for a UK registered vehicle can be in you hand in less than 4 days after filling in the on line form and paying €6. Getting money where due is one of the priorities of all of these schemes including LEZ and London Congestion Charge.
Click to expand...


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## Penquin

Sorry Ray,

that was my poor writing, what I meant was that now that the UK Government are charging foreign HGV vehicles over 12t a daily fee but who will enforce it within the UK,

not Germany, I ma sure they will manage, but the UK ?...........

Dave


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## fatbuddha

http://www.northgate-ispublicservices.com/uk-hgv-levy.aspx

gives details on how the UK collects it's HGV levy - they use ANPR to spot those who haven't paid


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## Penquin

as they will be using ANPR presumably they will only take action the SECOND time that the lorry arrives as the first time they could be paying at the terminal or at the fuel station?

I don't think they can follow the registration back to source and then take action can they?

I am not being awkward, merely thinking how easy this will be to collect and monitor. The ANPR system works well for UK registered vehicles but will it for overseas registered other than recording the number for the subsequent visit?

Dave


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## fatbuddha

if you look at the website link I posted it says

"you'll need to pay a levy to use UK roads - *before* you enter the country."

it then goes on to say

"If you haven't paid the full levy for your vehicle, automatic number-plate recognition cameras, ferry records and other checks will alert our enforcement agencies *when you arrive in the UK*. You'll have to pay an on-the-spot fine of £300 at the roadside. If you can't pay the fine, your vehicle will be impounded, which could seriously disrupt your delivery schedule and lead to further costs"


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## Glandwr

An unexpected benefit of our government’s obsession with surveillance technology. :lol: 

dick


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## klyne

Going back to the original thought as to whether the German tolls were legal it seems the UK Government is doing the same thing with the lorry charges? Introducing an additional charge for UK and overseas lorries but reducing the VED that only applies to UK lorries. Basically the same as reducing German road tax but having to buy a motorway vignette?

David


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## rayc

> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> 
> that was my poor writing, what I meant was that now that the UK Government are charging foreign HGV vehicles over 12t a daily fee but who will enforce it within the UK,
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry when there is money to be made the UK is at the forefront with technology i.e LEZ, LCC and the new barrier free Dartford Toll.
Click to expand...


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## Glandwr

I wonder what the Irish think of the UK doing it? Does it cover Irish wagons I wonder? Most things from industrial northern Europe pass along UK roads to get to and fro to Ireland. There is now a UK tax on that traffic  

Dick


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## fatbuddha

> I wonder what the Irish think of the UK doing it? Does it cover Irish wagons I wonder? Most things from industrial northern Europe pass along UK roads to get to and fro to Ireland. There is now a UK tax on that traffic


Ireland aren't exempt - they have to cough up as well and they don't seem to get a reduced levy either


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## barryd

We can hardly complain then if we are doing the same thing!

Seeing as we are all part of the United States of Europe now why cant we just have a standard system across every country or is that too much to ask?


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## Glandwr

Totally agree Barry we seem to be going backwards. We provoked riots and almost revolution here over the exorbitant tolls that were eventually levied at the toll gates on the old turnpikes before they were abolished. 

Now we seem to be reintroducing the same stupidity. 

There does need to be some compensation given to those countries and regions that have to maintain roads were the vast majority of heavy traffic is purely in transit across the country like Switzerland or Austria.

But to do it purely to please domestic vested interests as we appear to be doing mad.

Dick


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## bigcats30

You force businesses to pay more in taxes then all they do is pass it on to you and I, so don't be shocked when prices start to rise on all products being imported.


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