# Emissions exempt



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

This from the Caravan Club's January 2007 magazine:-

_Transport for London (TFL) is now mid-way through consultations on the proposed London Low Emission Zone (LEZ), which would impose punitive charges to enter Greater London on diesel-engined vehicles which do not comply. However, it has already been able to confirm to the Club that motor caravans, which were initially thought by TfL to be included, will in fact be mostly exempt.

"A motor caravan would not be covered by the LEZ and subject to the charge unless it had more than nine seats (including the driver's seat). There are likely to be very few motor caravans to have this number of seats.

*However, LGVs which have been converted to motor caravans will appear as goods vehicles on the DVLA database unless the keeper/owner has informed the DVLA of the conversion.* They would therefore be recorded as being subject to the charge. The owner would need to check their records with the DVLA, and ensure that the DVLA approves this as a conversion and updates it records accordingly. This would allow the updated vehicle details to he placed on the TfL LEZ register. They would then not be issued with a notice when they enter the LEZ."

More information is available from tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon._

This links in with the recent thread on registered body types. The LEZ has nothing to do with the taxation class, but the registered body type shown on the vehicle's V5.

Dougie Brown.


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

*London Emission Zone*

I am not sure whether to give a huge sigh of relief or treat this post with caution.

I live within 2 miles of the proposed LEZ and outraged at the plans that Mayor Ken is blindly putting in place. Whilst I agree to a degree with what he is trying to do clearly no thought has been given as to how he is doing it.

A motorhome is a leisure vehicle and the thought of driving through or around London in my leisure makes me come out in a cold sweat. I would rather be as far from London as I can. So as all my driving, apart from the 2 mils to a from the zone border, is outside the zone why must I pay hundres, possibly thousand of pounds to alter my 'van, change the engine, sell the 'van or move house in order to keep my leisure time in tact.

If motorhomes are exempt, happy days! But this is the first I have seen of this. Is it true?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Certainly thats what it says on official websites. However the point that dougie makes is very valid there are lots of people on here (I was one) whose V5 said 'panel van' or similar instead of 'motor caravan' under body type (because of lazy converters).


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

Sallytraffic

Forgive me being cautious, which website have you seen where it says that motorhomes are excempt?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Sorry If I have misled because I now think I am wrong.

I have revisted my bookmarked TfL sites and can only find this: >click and scroll down<.

I will keep looking because I remember seeing it.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

asprn said:


> This from the Caravan Club's January 2007 magazine:-
> 
> _Transport for London (TFL) is now mid-way through consultations on the proposed London Low Emission Zone (LEZ), which would impose punitive charges to enter Greater London on diesel-engined vehicles which do not comply. However, it has already been able to confirm to the Club that motor caravans, which were initially thought by TfL to be included, will in fact be mostly exempt.
> 
> ...


sorry, I've just noticed that this was posted in February - it may be that this was a proposal that never got implemented


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

I have now written (by email) to the TfL asking them to clearify this point. I have cut 'n pasted the quote on the original forum message taken from the caravan Club magazine to see what they say. If they retract this message in any way I shall send the reply to the Caravan Club to see what they have to say about this. Obviouisly, I shall post the reply here also.

I think that this is something that should be fought. Motor caravans should be exempt from this tax. Arguably our engines will produce as much emission as any other Fiat/Ford/Renualt van but considering we are unlikely to drive through London (most people are only going to driving away from London to get away from it all) and the fact that this is a leisure vehicle and not used daily, we will not be polluting the air for very long. 

I have covered 5,000 miles in my van in the last 2 years with no more than 100 of them within the proposed zone (basically from home to the M25).


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

Although we live in somerset we had a booklet sent to our business address about the Low Emission Zone Tis is an extract.
"Large vans. Diesel-engined vehicles between 1.205 tonnes unladen and 3.5 tonnesGross vehicle Weight and Motorcaravans* and amblances between 2.5 tonnes and 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle weight. Date affected October 2010 Eurolll. All Euro lll vehicles will meet the LEZ standard.  Vehicles registered as new on or after 1 January 2002 are assumed to be Euro lll, so will meet the LEZ emmissions standards. Vehicles not meeting the emissions standards could be made to do so by modifying them to meet Euro lll standard for particulate matter. Vehicles not meeting the emissions standards would need to pay a daily charge if used within the LEZ."
According to the booklet the daily charge would be £100 also if you go into the conjestion chargeing zone you will have to pay that as well.*


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

*London Emission Zone*

I have received a written reply from Transport for London about motor caravans and the London Emission Zone and it makes interesting reading.

I quote:

"All diesel-engined motor caravans that are greater than 2.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight are subject to the London Emission Zone scheme.

As the scheme will have a phased introduction only diesel-engined motor caravans over 12 tonnes gross vehicle weight will be subject to the scheme from the 4th February 2008. These vehicles will be required to meet an emission standard of Euro III to be used in the zone without paying the daily charge.

From the 7th July 2008, all diesel-engined motor caravans weighing between 3.5 and 12 tonnes gross vehicle weight will be required to meet this standard.

From October 2010, all diesel-engined motor caravans weighing between 2.5 and 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight will also be required to meet Euro III standard.

From January 2012, all diesel-engined motor caravans weighing over 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle will be required to meet an emission standard of Euro IV"

This makes the situation very clear. What you now need to do is work out whether your 'van complies with Euro III or not. Usefully, TfL can help here but you need to input your registration number in the website and it will tell you.

The interesting point is this. I have a French van that was originally plated at a max 3.5 tonnes but I requested an upgrade to 3.85 tonnes at registration to allow a greater payload. I am now regretting this decision. If I stuck at 3.5 tonnes I would be driving a Euro III van and therefore not be liable to the LEZ.

What I now need to do, if this is possible, is re-plate my van back from 3.85 tonnes to 3.5 tonnes otherwise I will have a rather large bill to pay! I am aware of course that I will have to pay more on the VED but a tenor extra per year on road tax is cheaper than a £2,500 Ken tax!

The first question I have is: Is this possible? Is there anyone in the trade that can tell me if this can be done?

Second question is: Has anyone else done the same? Check your registration plate.


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

*Down Plating*

tviall "down plating" is possible 8)

I remember I took my LGV test in a wagon down plated from 18 to 12 Tones (cant remember why now though!) and Ive seen some down plated 7.5 Toners.

I have looked into the options as my 4.2 Ton Iveco was registered 13 days before "1 October 2001 [from when Vehicals over 3.5 T] are assumed to be EuroIII, so will meet the LEZ emission standards [until 2012]"

My Options are ....

1) Certify my engine's emissions 
Is my engine EuroIII compliant ? Manufacturer (Iveco) seems unwilling/unable to help me and Its NOT on the VOSPA / TfL Certified Engine List.

2) Modify my vehicle: 
a) Fit a new EuroIII or EuroIV engine - Iveco quoted £7,000 for fitting a EuroIV unit. These modifications will need to be certified by an authorised agency - in the UK this is the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) and the emissions will need to be tested each year (and at additional cost on top of the MOT.

b)Modify the vehicle to meet the required emissions standard, by fitting pollution abatement equipment. Again These modifications will need to be certified by an authorised agency - in the UK this is the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA). Fitting is likely to cost in excess of £3000 and the emissions will need to be tested each year.

3) Replace my vehicle: 
Replace my vehicle with a newer vehicle that meets the emissions standards for the LEZ. .... to one 14 days newer perhaps? or one Regd after 1 October 2006? 
Whatever it will be more than I can afford as do doubt this will have de-valued my van - Or is it a good reason to turn it in now before this is all common knowledge?

PLEASE BEWARE that "nearly new" vans OVER 3.5 Ton Regd BEFORE 1 OCTOBER 2006 will have similar problems in 2012.

4)Pay the fines for entering the LeZ (which would likely be £2500+ pa if I cut back my visits .... NB there are going to be more and more LeZs if London's scheme is effective. Germany has some planned already I think .....

5) Down Plate to 3.5 Ton and run the risk of being put on a weigh-bridge. (rather a shame as thats the permitted axle load of my rear axle alone LOL) I can always move the heavy stuff into my 2.7 Ton trailer......

I think Im off th the local weigh-bridge tomorrow then .... no time to lose.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: London Emission Zone*



tviall said:


> What I now need to do, if this is possible, is re-plate my van back from 3.85 tonnes to 3.5 tonnes ..... The first question I have is: Is this possible?


You have a PM.

Dougie.


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Feels good to own a 7.5 ton 7.5 litre V8 petrol driven RV for once! Petrol does not seem to be covered by this daft law!

Chris


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

G2EWS said:


> Feels good to own a 7.5 ton 7.5 litre V8 petrol driven RV for once! Petrol does not seem to be covered by this daft law!


Agreed. I must say though that I can't see why everyone's getting hot under the collar. Practically, who would want to drive their motorhome through the Congestion Charge zone, or why would it be necessary?

Dougie.


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## 94639 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Dougie

I do not think it has to do with driving through the congestion charge zone.
The emission zone apparently covers all of the greater London area within the confines of the M25. Anyone who has a motorhome parked within this area has to meet the LEZ requirements even if they only travel outwards and not into Central London. You can check as to whether your vehicle will need to be modified by typing in your registration number on the following website.

This is the link to find out if and when you need to get modifications carried out:-
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/vehicles/options/2536.aspx


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

*Re: London Emission Zone*



tviall said:


> I have received a written reply from Transport for London about motor caravans and the London Emission Zone and it makes interesting reading.
> 
> I quote: <snipped for clarity by Harvey>
> 
> ...


It doesn't make it very clear to me. If the gvw is *exactly* 3.5 tonnes as many 'vans are, what is the relevant date: 2008 or 2010?

They use the term 'between' in both cases. They do not use the either of the terms; 'over', or 'including' which may have made it very clear.

Harvey


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: London - Low Emission Zone*



asprn said:


> tviall said:
> 
> 
> > What I now need to do, if this is possible, is re-plate my van back from 3.85 tonnes to 3.5 tonnes ..... The first question I have is: Is this possible?
> ...


asprn was this about how to go about down plating ?  Please do share if you know ... there are likely to be many people affected :wink:



G2EWS said:


> Feels good to own a 7.5 ton 7.5 litre V8 petrol driven RV for once! Petrol does not seem to be covered by this daft law!
> 
> Chris


I am wondering if a Rover V8 would fit under my bonnet LOL but I would probably lose more money on fuel than id save on fines.
I do like the principle of LeZs. Its the inequality of the system of assumed EuroIII/IV compliance that is indeed daft..... If the environmental aims of the LEZ are to be met surly all engines allowed in ought to be proved/ tested and Certified to be EuroIII or IV not just "assumed" to be such by way of its registration date? .... I took a year form my chassis being built until it was Registered and many trucks delayed far longer.


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

lindyloot said:


> According to the booklet the daily charge would be £100 also if you go into the conjestion chargeing zone you will have to pay that as well.


Its £200 per day for "Lighter Lorries" according to the booklet LEZ DVLA 06/07 they sent me :evil: ..... the £100 refers to sub 3.5 Ton Vans and Sub 5 Ton Minibuses. and they are not affected until October 2010 .... [EDIT I have just confirmed my interpretation as correct with TfL Customer Services]

if you do not pre-pay (and it seems you must nominate the day payment is made for) or pay before midnight the day after driving in the LeZ the penalty charge is £1000 reduced to £500 if paid within 14 days of issue.

If your visit spans midnight you must pay for two days and could result in two penalty notices.

I enjoyed the last paragraph of P16 of the LEZ DVLA 06/07 booklet :

_TfL would prefer operators of affected vehicles to meet the emissions standards rather than pay a daily charge. TfL anticipates that the revenue from the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) will be minimal._

:?

I have just spoken to Bill at Astra Vehicle Technologies  who are TfL Approved Device manufactures and has confirmed my Van (a 2.8 Iveco 35c13) can be made EuroIV compliant for £3000 (+VAT) .......


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: London - Low Emission Zone*



MrRob said:


> asprn was this about how to go about down plating ?  Please do share if you know ... there are likely to be many people affected


I realise that, but I made a promise not to enter into legal debates such as this, due to previous immediate and relentless anti-Police flamefests in response. 

Dougie.


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: London - Low Emission Zone*



asprn said:


> MrRob said:
> 
> 
> > asprn was this about how to go about down plating ?  Please do share if you know ... there are likely to be many people affected
> ...


 :lol: No probs .... A quick Forum search reveled the Down Plating solution  .... but I am sure my van is too heavy for this to be a realistic / legal option for me. ....


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: London - Low Emission Zone*

Just thought Id give you all an update.

I spoke to Iveco UK's technical dept today who confirmed my vehicle is EuroII and perhaps one of the last batch of EuroII to go to Laika..... at least now I know for sure 

Down Plating is possible but not in my case. It would seem in normal situations a payload of 750kgs should remain after down grading.

So if I want to visit London/Heathrow I will have to find Circa £3500 in good time to have the Emissions Abatement Equipment fitted and tested before July 2008

..... or Find £7000+ for a new EuroIV 180Bhp "moata" :twisted:

or trade in my van.

What are the rest of you older over 3.5 tonners going to do?


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

*Desision Has been made*

I cant believe this topic has generated such little discussion on how to best deal with the problems the TfL LEZ creates ....

... for the record "we" are going to upgrade to a new van if I can hammer out a deal on a new Kreos 3002 .... Not sure how that stacks up in environmental terms. Not that that is the REAL reason for the LEZ which is supposedly to promote good health of Londoners .......


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## MrRob (Jan 15, 2007)

Again just for the record I have response from Iveco re - my choices highlighted previously :-

_*Dear Mr[Rob]

It is not feasible to fit a Euro 3/4 engine since it will require both engine and complete wiring loom changes. Your only alternative is to have an outside supplier to fit a pariculate trap, however we should point out that this is not an Iveco recommended solution since we have no experience of any of the advertised retrofitted solutions on older vehicles.

We are sorry but you do not have any other alternatives.

Best Regards
Iveco CustomerCenter
ContactUs service*_

..... All 2800c Fiat etc will be in the same boat as Iveco made their engines too..... 

I am surprised that there are no 2800cc Iveco/Fiat buses operating in the London area as I believe they have had to be Euro 3 for some time now ... they must have been modified and maintained by the operators without input from Iveco.


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