# Cycle helmets?



## stendec (Jan 26, 2007)

Can anyone tell me if cycle helmets are compulsory in Spain, Portugal or France.
I read somewhere they are in Spain but I also read that rear bike racks are illegal in Portugal, false.
Thanks,
Stendec.


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Can anyone tell me if cycle helmets are compulsory in Spain, Portugal or France.


Shouldnt matter whether they are compulsory or not.


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Why are you concerned about the helmets being complusory?

buy one each, wear it, be safer. Remembering the old saying...

if you got a 10 dollar head, wear a 10 dollar hat.


----------



## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

aultymer said:


> Shouldnt matter whether they are compulsory or not.


Why? Not everyone thinks they are usefull.

Derek


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*bikes*



camper69 said:


> aultymer said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldnt matter whether they are compulsory or not.
> ...


Not until you fall off your bike and hit your head


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: bikes*



locovan said:


> Not until you fall off your bike and hit your head


As Mrs Zeb did in France, and her helmet almost certainly saved her life.

The back of it was smashed to bits, and the consultant (who X-rayed her) at the hospital said she would certainly have fractured her skull if she had not been wearing it.

As it was she broke at least one rib . . . but had only mild concussion.

She was doing about ten mph at the time on a dead flat road - but just touched the wheel of the bike in front.

It happens so easily and in a split second.


----------



## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

*Re: bikes*



locovan said:


> Not until you fall off your bike and hit your head


And you expect the helmet to help? Have you looked at the spec of cycle helmets.

Whether making cycle helmets compulsory is worth it depends on an number of factors. Not just if saves a bump on the head for one person. For instance see here.

Everyone has there own view of course

Derek


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: bikes*



camper69 said:


> And you expect the helmet to help? Have you looked at the spec of cycle helmets.
> Derek


Ask Mrs Zeb Derek! :lol: :lol:

They are specifically designed to shatter on impact. That's the whole idea as it's exactly the same principle as the crumple zone on a car.

I would have to ask why almost every professional rider wears one. You don't see many bare heads on the Tour de France, and the wind resistance created by a ventilated helmet will be significant at those levels of performance.

I have no axe to grind, and shall not get involved in the arguments that are bound to follow, but I don't have to introduce people to "my second wife"!! 8O 8O


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: bikes*



camper69 said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > Not until you fall off your bike and hit your head
> ...


Oh dear it is a question of choice by the looks of it as it all depends on circumstances ie:- how bad the fall.  if a small knock on the drive ok it helps but if knocked by a car then they dont seem to protect. My own view is better a little protection than none at all.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/1999/jun/15/healthandwellbeing.health1


----------



## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

I think Locovan hit the nail on the head ( ie choice) and the article he pointed to about Australia is valid.

If forcing people to wear helemts means that it puts people off riding a bike the it defeats the object of the law.

Derek

Edit spelling


----------



## ronin56 (May 25, 2007)

*Re: bikes*



Zebedee said:


> camper69 said:
> 
> 
> > And you expect the helmet to help? Have you looked at the spec of cycle helmets.
> ...


You don't see ANY bare heads on the Tour de France but that's because wearing them is compulsory under the rules of the competition. It wasn't always so but has been for several years now. Mind you, I wouldn't want do some of the speeds and manouevres they're doing without one.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There is a lot of evidence that they give some protection against shocks, sadly there is also lots of evidence that people wearing them assume they have total protection.

Sensible riders wear them but still behave as if they have an egg shell for a head (which we all have when it hits a kerb) and don't ride while listening to I-pods etc. Sadly some people assume helmet = perfect safety, so ride with earphones in, totally oblivious to other road users (or even worse pedestrians on pavements as they cut through).

Cycling should be fun, it is healthy but it is still POTENTIALLY dangerous - cyclists must have an awareness of what's going on around them. Sadly too many car drivers don't even notice them (like motorcyclists) and cut up in front of them or turn into them. These motorists need advice about observation skills. (Shades of a recent thread about speeding).

I wear one, have done for years, am totally happy with one but also aware that lots of people don't like them for various reasons, that is their choice even if it is not mine. Why should I impose my will on them any more than they do on me!

My wife, who has nursed brain injured children from cycling accidents "they were only going round the corner", has much stronger views than me! I wonder why?


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

lol - I love this forum (that's why I renewed my membership yesterday).

The question here is:-

*Can anyone tell me if cycle helmets are compulsory in Spain, Portugal or France *

Now there's a great little squabble going on peppered with _oughts, shoulds_ and _of courses_, none of which have anything to do with the question.

Love it. 

Dougie.


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

asprn said:


> lol - I love this forum (that's why I renewed my membership yesterday).
> 
> The question here is:-
> 
> ...


Yes can anyone do the boring thing and answer the question?


----------



## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

Legal in Spain , *your joking. The good advice given here is to wear one, and also A high vis waistcoat, because when your lying in the road looking dead , the Guardia Civil will ask you why your not wearing it. 
*They wear riding helmets for crash helmets.


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

It would only have been a "two-poster" if they had Dougie and Frank.

How boring is that!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

From my knowledge (weak though that is) they are not COMPULSORY in any European country UNLESS you are competing in a cycling event or competition when the rules of that event may dictate.

The British Government (although not the question) when asked said that the they would not make it compulsory until the majority of riders were wearing them. There is no EU ruling that i am aware of.


----------



## navman (May 10, 2005)

camper69 said:


> I think Locovan hit the nail on the head ( ie choice) and the article he pointed to about Australia is valid.
> 
> If forcing people to wear helemts means that it puts people off riding a bike the it defeats the object of the law.
> 
> ...


Surely the object of the law is to try and save a few lives... not all but just a coupe maybe....


----------



## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

I have toured europe on my road bike for years and have never identified the legal need to wear one or not. 

We have riden up the Alps, Loire and toured following the Tour De France route.

No local person we have travelled with informed us we should wear one.

Having said that I don't wear one but thats my decision - I do appreciate the view you should wear one, but sometimes in life we must be allowed to way up the risks ourselves given the situations we are in.


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Andrew said:


> sometimes in life we must be allowed to way up the risks ourselves given the situations we are in.


Quite so Andrew. And just for the record we do wear them but would rather resent being obliged to by law!! (illogical I know, but isn't that human nature?)

There are a couple of interesting "pro" and "con" links >> here <<

*P.S. I still can't answer the original question either, but I bet Mr Google can, or maybe a quick call to the appropriate Tourist Offices?*


----------



## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

navman said:


> Surely the object of the law is to try and save a few lives... not all but just a coupe maybe....


But what has been found is that when people are forced into wearing a helmet, is that, rather than comply they just give up.

Therefore a helmet may save an individual from getting seriously hurt but many thousand may give up cycling ( because there do not want to wear a helmet or perceive cycling to be dangerous because you need a helmet) and therefore the population becomes more unhealthy as a result as they are not doing as much exercise. The conclusion being if more people die from being unhealthy rather than hitting their head on the ground then the law has achieved nothing.

Derek


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

camper69 said:


> navman said:
> 
> 
> > Surely the object of the law is to try and save a few lives... not all but just a coupe maybe....
> ...


Didnt happen with motorcycles.

Anyway, I, in my very, very unhealthy fashion, whould like to offer.....

Take 1 head, human, ( or teenager, ) and give it smart rap with a piece of road, at 12 miles per hour. ( this is from the links given by Zeb), now, guess which will break. I would wager it wont be the road.

Its all down to kinetics and energy and stuff that I dont understand the ins and outs of...what I do understand, is the concept that the impact energy of a 12 mph fall onto your swede from 6 feet up, is lots. and possibly more than the skull can deal with. And its not just boney injury, it the brain which isnt the most robust thing ever invented.

I do appreciate the reluctance of cyclists to be compelled to wear safety helmets, I really do, its nice if a safety or government will let those people make their minds up for themselves, after all we're grown ups with more responsibilities we cope with than the powers that be may think, but......( its not a big but) I wonder about those who are unable to make up their own minds, So, whats the alternative?...legislate for children up to...whatever age is decided, and then stop it for adults?


----------



## navman (May 10, 2005)

I guess the long and short of it is that wearing a helmet will never make matters worse...

Having dealt with more than a few accidents involving cyclists, with and without helmets, I will always wear one...


----------



## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

To answer part of the question I do remember reading that Spain were going to make cycle helmets compulsory and I think that it became law in about 2000. This from a country where scooter riders drill large holes in the crown of their helmets to accomodate the chain or lock that secures the scooter!

I personally do not wear a helmet and I have done the head versus road test quite spectacularly in 1994. Apart from a permanent scar above my right eye (24 stitches) I am glad to say that I suffered no fractures or lasting injuries. I put this down to the relaxing nature of having consumed 4 pints of Old Speckled Hen beforehand.

JohnW


----------



## navman (May 10, 2005)

Wizzo said:


> I put this down to the relaxing nature of having consumed 4 pints of Old Speckled Hen beforehand.
> 
> JohnW


That will always help... Unless the government made it a legal requirement :lol:


----------



## BJT (Oct 31, 2008)

To aswer the original question is not simple. I suggest you look at the C&CC Winter Sun Brochure, page 23 where there is a section regarding not only the use of cycles but also their transportation on 'homes. If you are a member you can login and read it on line. If not join up!


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Wizzo said:


> I put this down to the relaxing nature of having consumed 4 pints of Old Speckled Hen beforehand.
> JohnW


I would have thought the feathers would stick in your throat,


----------



## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

bandaid said:


> Its all down to kinetics and energy and stuff that I dont understand the ins and outs of.


And luck - it really is down to luck this time.

You get your head under a truck tyre, motorcycle or cycle helmet, you lose.

You get struck in the chest by a car - you have a lovely head on a dead body.

You get your leg ripped off by car, your head watches it's body bleed to death.

For any helmet to save you you have to have the right accident.So I ride a push bike without helmet and consider it an acceptable risk.

Not so a motor bike, protection is needed from insects and weather but the same applies to accidents.

"Choose your next accident wery carefully Mr Bond, it may be your last"


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Bandaid, it is almost as bad as Grouse in that respect.


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> It would only have been a "two-poster" if they had Dougie and Frank. How boring is that!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Oi. :evil:


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

camper69 said:


> But what has been found is that when people are forced into wearing a helmet, is that, rather than comply they just give up.


At the ( secondary) school I used to teach at cycle helmets were made compulsory. If you rode a bike to school you had to wear a helmet. If you were seen on the way to school without one then your place in the bike sheds was taken away and with it your chance of leaving a bike in school with any chance of seeing it again.

Approved cycle helmets were sold at a reasonable price, below that of most shops.

The usual arguments against wearing them ( "they make me look silly miss!") went at a stroke. Everyone looked the same from staff to pupils. I don't know if any lives were saved but can't believe anyone was worse off for wearing them. It certainly made a duty stint on the cycle sheds much easier !

G


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> For any helmet to save you you have to have the right accident


That could be said for any piece of safety equipment.

If however you happen to 'have the right kind of accident', would you rather have a helmet or no helmet? 
If your child/grandchild has 'the right kind of accident' what would you prefer them to have? 
Having burst one helmet (and it wasn't because my head was too big) I would not cycle nor permit anyone I hade responsibility for to cycle without an approved helmet.

Since we cannot guard against the wrong kind of accident I feel it makes sense to guard against those we can.

The 'right kind of accident' argument was used by the motor industry for years to oppose the fitting of seat belts and air bags (we were all going to be trapped in burning vehicles!!).


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

From the CTC;

Spanish helmet law – 2005.03
Can you tell me whether it is compulsory to wear helmets in Spain?

Graham Holt – email
It is – but with quite a lot of exceptions: like when it’s hot, steeply uphill, or a built-up area! You may like to argue that it's always hot in Spain (compared to chilly Britain) but it's probably wiser to carry a helmet with you to put on when stopped by the cops. They have a trick of confiscating front wheels, to prevent further infringement by bolshy extranjeros!

Chris Juden

From CyclingForums.com;
Re: cycle helmets in europe 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Here in France helmet are not compulsory, but recommended.

Re: cycle helmets in europe 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've cycled in Ireland, UK, France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Switzerland.
None of them have helmet laws. 
GearóId Ó Laoi 

Re: cycle helmets in europe 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Definitely not in Austria. If you cycle in Vienna though it may be advisable. It is crazy in
that city.

Alex Starke 



Hope that helps, it is fairly clear but then the internet has no guarantee of accuracy, but this forum does tend to support what has been posted above in MHF.

I will continue to wear one and encourage everyone I go with to do so, it has to be the safest option.

Penquin


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

asprn said:


> lol - I love this forum (that's why I renewed my membership yesterday).
> 
> The question here is:-
> 
> ...


I think what we, who say we should, wear helmets are trying to say that no matter what country we are in and what the law says, we should always protect our very vulnerable bodies, they are precious.
If I went roller blading I would wear protection if I played hockey then same etc etc.

So glad you renewed your membership what would we do without your imput on these forums (I will put my protection on waiting for the blast from you) 8) 8) 8) 8)


----------



## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

locovan said:


> we should always protect our very vulnerable bodies, they are precious.)


Life is more precious, live it.


----------



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

hilldweller said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > we should always protect our very vulnerable bodies, they are precious.)
> ...


I play golf without protection but someone keeps shouting !!
FORE!! :headbang: 
so I do take risks sometimes :lol: :lol:


----------



## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

locovan said:


> I play golf without protection but someone keeps shouting !! FORE!! :headbang: so I do take risks sometimes :lol: :lol:


You thrill seeking little devil you.

Keep up the good work.


----------

