# Leisure battery gone flat



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Just gone downstairs and heard the MPPT Low voltage alarm going off in the van. Went in and its dropped down to 9.4 volts. Why would that happen? Battery is isolated. Vans not been used for weeks but the solar controller should be putting a bit in each day. Never had this problem before.

Ive had to just disconnect the MPPT controller for now to stop the alarm so will investigate further tomorrow but I Guess the battery will be goosed if its got that low, do you think?

I was never that pleased with that battery anyway which I Got from the Battery Megastore in Caen in Normandy. Rubbish compared to my old Banner battery.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

starting to sound as if nothing you have bought is or was as good as the previous item it replaced.rather negative for you barry. Perhaps it was not as good value as the cheese and Booze you buy, still never mind am sure that now you are in Blighty you will get a decent battery to replace it with.No more of this foreign stuff eh.:grin2::grin2:


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

Did you ever resolve your dim lights issue? Also do you not have a battery charger that charges your leisure battery? This happened to my leisure batteries but I don't have ehu in storage so removed the batteries and put them on charge. Looks as though I got to them in time as the indicator was still showing green.

I won't put them back until I have replaced my solar panels (semi-flexible) which have failed!

Was anything left on in the MH?

Or is your solar panel covered in leaves?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Never resolved the dim lights issue, It was just the fluorescents. The van is never on charge when standing but its not been an issue before.

Not sure whats up, ill have a look in the morning. Solar panel looks ok I think. I doubt it gets much charge as its between two houses but its always been ok in the past. As far as I know there is nothing on or powered off the battery when its sat doing nothing. There is a switch which turns off all the 12v lights etc which is off. Unless the MPPT Controller is knackered but is still taking power from the battery.

Its a mystery. for now.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Wife returned to car after shopping the other day, car wouldnt even turn over, thought battery was goosed but it turned out the battery was ok and the car was charging ok it was just some corrosion between the battery clamps and posts. Quick rub with emery , refit clamps, cover with vaseline and evrything ok again. Worth checking.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

9.4V is very flat indeed and it's very likely that irreparable damage has been done to the battery. It may be that the battery was already on the way out but of course it could be that there is something draining it. If there is then you want to find it before buying a new battery I would suggest Barry. So see if you can recharge the existing one and then find if anything is drawing current from it.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Your go-flat French battery is not very old though is it? My memory says less than 24 months...... not that you can do much about it of course....

Try Tayna Batteries for advice on choice, good value and excellent service, they delivered 2 80ah batteries to me here in 47 hours for a TOTAL price less than 1/2 of a single battery here....

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Leisure-Batteries-C45.html

Dave


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I used Tayna too. Excellent service and advice, quick delivery and the right product at the right price!!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Barry

I assume you have but just to check, have you put a meter on the battery terminals? - just in case there is a bad connection between the terminals and your voltmeter display on the charger.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

IVe not had chance to go and check anything yet this morning but will do at some point today. I went through my old posts and it seems I have had this issue before and not long after I got this battery.

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/182-electrical/167682-battery-losing-power.html

It was fitted in October 2014 after this thread so only two and a bit years old. Its an Alphaline DC31 125AH which was fitted in France, here is the thread

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/182-electrical/122915-leisure-battery-woes-3.html

The only thing I have started doing thats different to before is I now disconnect the cab battery when the vehicle is not used for some time as it also loses charge parked up but I dont see how that would effect the leisure battery.

Will do some more investigating later. I may disconnect it, bring it in the house and give it a 24 hour charge but I suspect its knackered. Im not sure but it may be under warranty.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have this feeling barryd that this talk of warranty is just an excuse to take the offending item back yourself.:grin2::grin2:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

By coincidence my Banner battery started playing up a fortnight ago. As it cost me an arm and a leg 5 years ago in Germany I was very reluctant to change it. However after several days try to coax it along the inevitable had to happen, so I popped down to Camperserv at Loulé and got a Varta 95a/h for €198. I was quite chuffed at the price 'cos the Banner , same size, had cost almost €300. Moral of the story ....Only have a faulty battery in the UK!
The Dutch owner of this Camperstop reckons Banner batteries have had some quality problems recently due to the Chinese makers using duff materials during g production. Now, where have I heard that before?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

It looked like it had recovered slightly but took it out of the van (much swearing and claret spilled from finger) and on the multi meter its reading 10.62 now so will leave it on charge overnight. I may have to adopt the method of just disconnecting it when not in use like I have with the starter battery. Im just flummoxed why it drops but clearly from my earlier post its been doing it since it was fitted just over two years ago yet the old one did not. Solar panel should top it up even in winter.

Unless it just doesnt like the cold or being stood. The old battery which was a 110ah was superb. It was on for about 7 years at least and seemed to last forever even before we got solar. I just cant remember what it was. Banner I think.

The only way Ill know if this one is knackered is to use it I guess and that wont be happening any time soon.

Thanks for all the help so far.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Barry

I am just going to ask some questions to get you to put up more information, which might give the 'experts' more chance of helping you.

Was the low reading of 9.4 showing 

a) When or just after the alarm was sounding ? - because presumably the alarm itself is powered from the LB.
or 
b)  was that reading still showing long after the MPPT was switched off.

Was the 10.62 reading taken

a) just after removing the battery and before charging
and 
b) when it was still cold or had it been in the warm for some time?

If the battery has recovered more than 1v without charging, or being in a warmer environment, it would seem to indicate that the 9.4v was caused by some sort of drain on it and greater than what the MPPT was putting in.

You said the only change that you have made is to disconnect the VB. Did you disconnect both +ve and -ve leads? Did you ensure they were isolated from any contact with each other and Earth? Could there be anything feeding from the LB to the VB through your system? Are there blocking diodes between the two? 

I am not sure I could diagnose the problem, but maybe some better person might have more clues from your answers.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I suspect there is a drain somewhere but exactly where can only be found by isolating each circuit in turn by pulling fuses and seeing if the drain stops - with a multimeter in the circuit from the battery reading the current being drained (amps or milliamps) until you find one with a distinct reading of drain......

With the history of dim lights that you have mentioned that would be my first suspect that somewhere in the wiring for the lighting circuits and probably a very small broken wire touching "earth" (strictly negative but I am sure that you know what I mean).

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks

The 9.4 reading was on the MPPT controller screen last night when I discovered the alarm going off. It could have been going off for hours or even days. So presumably the alarm and MPPT controller would be drawing from the battery. I checked the battery again at lunchtime and it had already gone up a bit on Kontikis meter which is just red, yellow and green but when I tested it with the battery disconnected and before charging on the proper meter it was 10.62v. The battery was freezing cold.

The vehicle battery has only one connection removed. I think its the negative (cant remember). Its just hanging there but not touching anything. Dunno what a blocking diode is.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Thanks
> 
> The 9.4 reading was on the MPPT controller screen last night when I discovered the alarm going off. It could have been going off for hours or even days. So presumably the alarm and MPPT controller would be drawing from the battery. I checked the battery again at lunchtime and it had already gone up a bit on Kontikis meter which is just red, yellow and green but when I tested it with the battery disconnected and before charging on the proper meter it was 10.62v. The battery was freezing cold.
> 
> The vehicle battery has only one connection removed. I think its the negative (cant remember). Its just hanging there but not touching anything. Dunno what a blocking diode is.


Well that is a bit more information to go on.

A blocking diode is for electrics the equivalent of a one-way valve in a water system, i.e. only lets the current flow in one direction, used to prevent feed-back.

Geoff


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

You say your battery is isolated so is it isolated from everything INCLUDING the MPPT ??? If so then how can any charge get into the battery.

If its isolated from everything EXCEPT your solar panel then it would suggest one of thre things, your solar panel is drawing current FROM your LB, Your solar panels are not producing enough power (most likely) or your LB is knackered. How long has been since it had a decent charge??? 

I had LB's going down at this time of year (100W panel) because there just wasnt enough sunlight to produce any meaningful power. I have 3.9 Kilo watt array of solar panels on my house roof and today they only produced a TOTAL of 4.9 KILO watt hours (bearing in mind they are high up and not in any shadow at any time of the day. Scale that down to your solar panels max output and you can see that stuff-all would have been put into it.

Charge it up for 24 hours then leave it for a week and see whats left in it, you might be lucky.

Oh no, hang on you dont do "lucky" do you Barry 

Andy


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

barryd said:


> It was fitted in October 2014 after this thread so only two and a bit years old. Its an Alphaline DC31 125AH which was fitted in France, here is the thread


I have exactly the same battery Barry. Mines 4 years old and was recommended by, I believe, Techno, a former member on here. Mine is still in great shape, in fact I have just been out and checked it and it's showing 12.86v despite not having been on hook up for a week.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Just to reiterate:

The solar controller has built-in load disconnect, IF and ONLY IF the load goes through the LOAD terminals.

If you have discharge loads that are not going through those terminals then the controller cannot stop the battery going flat.

Peter


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## blindwatchertrev (Nov 4, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance concerning all things electric, especially batteries, I would like to know if it is completely safe to leave the van on EHU for 24/7. If so how much juice is being used. I have a bog standard LB with no fancy attachments ( no idea what a MPPT is) which doesn't hold a charge for more than 48 hrs or so. The VB only charges when the engine is running. Any answers much appreciated. Trev


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

If the LB charger is a multi-stage type, then it should drop its output down to a maintenance charge, which basically puts just enough power into the battery to keep it fully charged without going into gassing.

Most decent solar controllers have multi-stage charging.

Peter


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its not really isolated. There is just a switch in the van to turn on or off the 12v hab stuff. So the solar controller is still connected no matter where the switch is.

I think Mr PLodd may be right. Just not enough charge going in but presumably the controller uses power so actually brings the battery down. Maybe I would just be better disconnecting it all when parked up for weeks on end. There is a set of 12v sockets attached to the load on the MPPT controller but they are just sockets, they do not draw power unless something is plugged in.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Wouldn't sticking on EHU for a couple of days every 2 weeks or so sort it out, without having to mess about disconnecting anything?

Paul.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You haven't got an inverter wired in have you?

Just a thought but the solar controller is the best suggestion so far........

When ours is standing we put an extra 7w folding panel in the windscreen facing south so it gets the maximum light and can generate some power, not a lot of course, but in the winter the sun angle is so low it is always oblique to the panels on the roof, so the one in the windscreen is at right angles to the suns/light hitting the front of the MH, certainly during the morning.

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Barry. The French Battery Megastore you bought from in Caen is a UK company of the same name.
I bought my three batteries there about 6 months before you did and they are still fine.
If it's still under guarantee contact Megastore in UK.

Dunny why you have shafted it but lots of suggestions so far. You need a meter.!!

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have a meter, I posted the results earlier. If its knackered then I will contact them. As said its always been ok before this battery. Its not really practical to stick it on EHU every now and again.

I might take the van out tomorrow for a run but leave the LB on charge in the house. I take it it wont do any harm driving the van with the LB disconnected and the terminals just hanging loose in the garage. Daft question probably but thought I should check.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> I have a meter, I posted the results earlier. If its knackered then I will contact them. *As said its always been ok before this battery.* Its not really practical to stick it on EHU every now and again.
> 
> I might take the van out tomorrow for a run but leave the LB on charge in the house. I take it it wont do any harm driving the van with the *LB disconnected and the terminals just hanging loose in the garage*. Daft question probably but thought I should check.


*Has it?*

When did you experience the *dim lights* first? (Before the last one died in France?)

Why did you have to replace the battery in France? (Answer; because the previous one died suddenly?)

I am just wondering whether there is something else and that these *are symptoms* rather than the disease itself....... hence my question earlier trying to pin down what else *might* be the underlying cause.....

As regards driving without the LB connected, make sure that the positive feed cannot short circuit i.e. touch any metal body components as if it can that could wreck your alternator - instantly - and that WOULD BE expensive.....

I am left with the niggling feeling that there is something else causing this failure and the reason why your previous battery died and locating that is important before another batter is wrecked.

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> *Has it?*
> 
> When did you experience the *dim lights* first? (Before the last one died in France?)
> 
> ...


Hmm. I think ill connect it up again before driving it. The battery before it did die quite suddenly but if you remember it was pretty ancient, had been used a hell of a lot (probably six months plus every year for at 7 years and the fact that I never bothered topping it up.  This one is maintenance free. The fluorescent lights did go dim on the old battery as well I think but the problem has got worse.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

I have my EHU connected to a timer which comes on for just an hr a day. I was told by the guy in Llandudno who used to repair electro blocks not to leave the EHU as it frys the batteries & block, well it did on my Burstner.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mine is always on EHU and my batteries usually last 7 or 8 years like this.
A lead acid battery lasts longer fully charged and most van chargers float when full.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

The battery was showing fully charged at lunchtime and read 13.4 volts (I think) on the meter when I unplugged the charger. Went out for a couple of hours and tested it on my return and it says 12.85. I guess I wont know if its knackered or not until I fit it back in the van and use it. I aint doing that today now the weather is foul.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess it's not totally burgered then Barry. But if you have a Battery Meggastore near I would suggest they check it over.
Then personally I would be prepared for it to let you down just at the wrong time and carry good jump leads with you.
I know it's a leisure but with one red lead you can at least link to the chassis battery and run the engine to bring it up.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Barry

You should see 12.6 volts for a fully charged battery, it needs to be off charge for an hour or so before checking the voltage. Of course the real test is how it copes under load, try turning a few of the internal lights on for an hour or so to put it under a bit of load. Switch all the lights OFF for a couple of minutes and see what voltage you have then.

Andy


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Barry

Before you struggle to get the battery back in I would try connecting up a known load, say 2-4amps, if you have something that you know what it draws, for 12-24 hours and montor the readings to see whether it holds its charge under load, which is the only sure way to know if it is still OK.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Good idea. It wont be going back in the van now before Tuesday so Ill see what i can attach to it. Not sure what though.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Bit like an old PC Barry. You can only expect so much out of an abused battery. Be prepared for it to die in a most inopportune moment.!!

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

At the end of the day its only a battery. I was never that impressed with it anyway.


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