# Driving too fast?



## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Reading another thread on MHF I noticed that at least two other members have picked up speeding tickets recently, I've had two in the last 6 months   both under 40mph so I thought I would try and safeguard against getting any more by purchasing some form of warning device, so I got a "Smart Drive"

Others in the same boat as myself may be considering the similar kind of thing, If so, then I consider this site worthy of a look.

http://www.drive-smart.co.uk/

I am more than pleased with my purchase and would not hesitate to recommend it. It also has a very open forum with almost daily FREE camera updates.

Ken S


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi
Anyone thinking that they will not get a ticket unless they are going way over the limit should take note that recently a friend was sent a summons for doing 34mph in a 30mph zone. Now I know that is 13% over the limit but there was always speculation as to what speed would incur a fine. The rule seems to be that speed cameras are set at +10% +1mph in a 30 zone. So be very careful 34 mph is too fast for a busy built up area where pedestrians are about but on the edge of a town like ours, where the 30 limit goes out into the countryside for a mile or so, 30mph feels so slow. Strangers to our town are always tailgating me and giving me evil looks when I am tootling along observing the 30 limit , preserving my licence.
Has anyone been done for less than 34mph???

Mike


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

I've downloaded the speed camera database into my points of interest on my tomtom sat nav. Then set it to warn me if a camera is on my route. So as I approach one, it alarms to warn me.

You can get the speed camera database free from:

Pocket GPS

Its not just for tomtom, they have files for all different makes of sat nav.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Why not just drive within the speed limits.
Much safer and less likely to get a fine or points.
Why the hurry

nobby


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

nobby said:


> Why not just drive within the speed limits.
> Much safer and less likely to get a fine or points.
> Why the hurry
> 
> nobby


I totally agree. I personally need my licence for my job, so I use the speed camera database as a backup system to my own self regulation. Its also good as speed camera's are generally in accident blackspots, so it makes you extra vigilant when it alarms.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

If the length of the speed zone looks like it might be a long one...country road for example... I have been known to use my speed control and a suitable gear.

nobby


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

nobby said:


> If the length of the speed zone looks like it might be a long one...country road for example... I have been known to use my speed control and a suitable gear.
> 
> nobby


My speed control (right foot) is very very unreliable. Plus it doesn't help my speedo being in Km/h! Another thing I use my satnav for... give me an accurate speed in mph.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

I agree one should always keep within the speed limit, unfortunately I find this nearly impossible, the Drive Smart does so much more than just tell you where the cameras are and is by far more reliable than the navigation database.

If you believe that by keeping within the speed limit will prevent you from receiving a speeding ticket , then a visit to this site may change your mind:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=365563&in_page_id=1770.

I understand from various sources that the guide lines for prosecution is 10%+2mph therefor for a 30mph zone discretion to prosecute comes in at 35mph, I was done on an open road by a Gatzo camera at 36mph, don't get me wrong , I'm not complaing, just trying to warn others

Drive safely Ken S.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

I always find this subject a facinating insight into human nature.
First of all it's a recreational vehicle we are driving, hence there should be no need to speed.
My satnav tells me that my van speedo overeads so in theory I am unlikely to break the limits if I drive within the pointer indications.
I did read the article in the Mail and fully understand it and am inclined to agree...If the police say it is accurate then that is good enough reason to doubt it!!. Have read that you may have a case against the police for damage to health if they point a Laser gun at your face as the Laser beam is a health hazard.
I'm surprised that Snelly has a vehicle with the speedo in KPH, presumably in Britain, as it is my understanding that a speedo not reading in MPH is illegal under Construction and Use Regs, and would most likely (almost certainly will) result in a fail of MOT.

Speed limits are there to indicate the maximum speed permitted on that particular road. It reminds me of my daughter's driving after she got a pass in the Institute of advanced Morons driving test...she was told that one should always try to drive at the speed limit to avoid slowing up other drivers!!!!! enough said.

nobby


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

I agree with almost everything that nobby has said about speeding but my KPH speedo has passed an MOT (it has got stickers on in MPH though) the only problem with the MOT was LHD headlights these will not pass an MOT even with stickers on, unlike several statements on this site to the contrary.

Ralph


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## navman (May 10, 2005)

I find it is easier to keep to a 30 if I stay in 3rd gear....


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## navman (May 10, 2005)

nobby said:


> I I'm surprised that Snelly has a vehicle with the speedo in KPH, presumably in Britain, as it is my understanding that a speedo not reading in MPH is illegal under Construction and Use Regs, and would most likely (almost certainly will) result in a fail of MOT.
> 
> nobby


AsI understand it Speedos are not part of the MOT


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## PIANOSONIC (May 10, 2005)

*french speed cameras*

hi 
i was flashed by two cameras doing just over 30 mph in france recently while avoiding the paege autoroutes .havent had a french letter yet lol.does anyone know if they chase you up or wait while you go back there and pounce on you at customs?

regards t.c.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

As a point of interest, I have just phoned my MOT examiner and he tells me that it makes no difference whether the speedo is in KPH or MPH, if it is functioning correctly it will pass, if this is correct or not I do not know but he is a strict examiner.

Ken S.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I like to think that I am a safe driver. Never been stopped by the police, I don't exceed the speed limit, I choose a sensible speed for the road etc etc. I used to think that add-on devices for detecting speed cameras were bought only by the semi-literate, beer-swilling types who drove 4x4s for status reasons.

I'm beginning to worry however at how difficult it is becoming to actually keep track of what the speed limit is on any given stretch of road. The limits change so frequently -one minute 50, then 40, or 30, then back up to 50 or unlimited. Quite often the signs are hidden by trees or overhanging bushes. I know one should be concentrating when driving but this constant change, many times for no apparent reason, does not make it easy.

G


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

Speedos which read in KPH and the MPH cannot be seen clearly at night are illegal if stopped by the police but not a reason to fail an MOT. Likewise your vehicle 'shouldn't' pass if you need beam deflectors. It's also illegal to have your fog light on the wrong side.

apologies for going off topic

Tim


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

Some GPS systems alert you if you are exceeding the limit for the road you are on

Ralph


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

speedo's are not part of the mot, however they are required to read in MPH to be registered in this country when you import from abroad, but its unlikely to be picked up on inspection.

Technically beam deflectors are not allowed for mot, but allot of testers will use their discretion and pass them.

olley


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I envy those who have never accidently strayed over the speed limit on a stretch of road, I do not consider myself ever being a 'boy racer' and always try to abide by the law but I made a mistake at the wrong time & in the wrong place & got caught doing 34mph in a 30 zone - result 3 points & £60 fine. . . . watch your halo boys


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Hi Vicdicdoc

I am one of those lucky ones that have not been caught in a stealth tax machine, (hope that don't put the mockers on it) held my licence for around 40 years, but I don't think I have a halo, just been lucky I suppose. I do agree with you that some form of warning is extremely helpful and I see no reason for enyone to cast scorn on people that use them. If, no more likely when, I get caught I will probably wish I had one myself!!


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

spykal said:


> Anyone thinking that they will not get a ticket unless they are going way over the limit should take note that recently a friend was sent a summons for doing 34mph in a 30mph zone.


Hi,

you should keep the physics behind that in mind. Means that the braking distance increases proportional to the 2nd power of the speed! In other words:

In that distance you would be at a dead stop braking down from 30 mph, you would still have *16 mph* when braking down from 34!

Just to make you think...

Best Regards,
Gerhard 
Who admits that he had once been caught on the motorway with 127 kph (not mph :wink: ) where 120 kph was allowed. But only once and not in the van.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

On one stretch of the M6 they now use 'average' speed checking .. ( the time taken to pass between two detectors several mile apart.). 
Similar to the French system on autoroutes where the toll both calculates your 'average' speed between tolls. Be aware :!:


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Paulway

Like you I have held my licence for many years (56 in fact) and I suspect like you, I place great value in it, I also believe that nowadays it’s virtually impossible to go one the road without breaking the law in one way or another within a very short while, and down to a great deal of luck whether one is caught or not. If owning one of these devices gives me the edge in holding on to my licence and being a better driver then others can throw as much scorn as they like, it really does not bother me ( it would at one time) I know who has the better chance of surviving in the long run.

The reasons for me buying this unit are, it gives my a warning (audio and visual) : if I exceed any predetermined speed, approach a black spot, Red light cameras, Gatso cameras, Specs cameras (with average speeds), truvello cameras, laser cameras and safety vans, it also does many other things and is updated daily, by far better than any navigation system, but most all it helps me keep hold of that vital piece of plastic, my licence.

Ken S.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

ScotJimland

Those are the Specs cameras ( aren't they a devious lot)

http://www.drive-smart.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=358

Ken S.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Schedule 3, para 19 in this Construction and Use Regs document gives the answer on speedos in MPH.
If a vehicle does not conform to Cand U regs how can it be legal on the road.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/downloadable/dft_roads_506814.pdf

nobby


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Snelly.

OK didn't realise you had a sticker across the speedo. I've always understood that that did make it a legal instrument.

nobby


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## 92609 (May 1, 2005)

My son has a heavily cusomised Mini which has a speedo consisting of a blank dial with no markings other than a small line at the 30 and 60 sectors. No other figures or divisions at all.
Passed MOT at different garages without query for at least the last ten years.

Geoff


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## 90304 (May 1, 2005)

Hi

In Staffordshire, all speed cameras seem to be set at 11 mph over the posted limit. ie in a 30 zone, will not flash at 40, but will at 41 - that is if speedo's are correct. I understand that gps does say you are going slower than needle indicates. I do not go too fast in 'van for previously stated reasons, but I also drive car for work!! Anyone been flashed anywhere at less that 11 mph over posted limits?

N


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

I got caught for going too slow.. through a red light ..  

Light changes to amber , guy in front brakes then accelerates away , i followed "Flash" .. 3 points + £60 

BTW . this was bumper to bumper traffic .. not a mad dash at 60 mph .. 

First offence in more than 30 years driving, no accidents , not even a parking ticket .. it's the points that hurt .. 

On TV a guy is caught doing 134mph on a motorbike with a kid riding pillion .. 
£120 + 6 points .. where is the justice .. :roll:

PS 
Speed limit allowances are + 10% + 2 mph over the limit before you get flashed.. 

eg.. 30 = 35 , 40 = 46 etc etc


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

I've just found a reference to speedo permissible tolerances and the formula is

v?10+6.25 mph is the allowed difference between true and indicated speed!!!!

I am querying DfT to see if I have misread the rule.
No good quoting the tolerance in court though as the law takes no account of speedo error.

nobby


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

> I always find this subject a facinating insight into human nature.
> First of all it's a recreational vehicle we are driving, hence there should be no need to speed.
> My satnav tells me that my van speedo overeads so in theory I am unlikely to break the limits if I drive within the pointer indications.


I'm always fascinated in human nature too Nobby!, just picking up on your posting regarding the recreational vehicle aspect... I often wonder why do people buy Motorhomes then have them chipped to go faster?.....

Where's the fire! 8O


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

This site may help in the discussion as to whether the speedo is part of the MOT.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/carlgvowners/mottesting/carcomponentstested.htm

Ken S.


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## 88826 (May 9, 2005)

I got my 3 points five years ago for sp30 doing 35 as I was passing a lorry in a crawler lane and returned to the inside lane just as the limit reduced to 30 mph. I was caught by a mobile unit who were about 60 to 80 yards further up the hill. I've lost count of the number of occassions when I have travelled that section of road and been overtaken by other vehicles at estimated speeds of 40 - 50 mph. We don't have any fixed cameras in Co Durham but mobile units at particular 'black spots'. I believe I can now apply to have the endorsement removed from my license at a cost of £19. Anyone confirm that please?
Don


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

I am sorry to say that although I think moving at speed on the motorways in one thing but if you were booked for doing under 40mph then the speed limit must have been 30mph and you only normally have 30mph limits in and around towns and villages where pedestrians are walking.

Therefore, when you it a 30mph or any town or village you should be below 30mph not over it and i am all for fining anyone heavily for such a breach.

If it makes you feel any better I was fined the other day for doing 38 in what i thought was a 40mph area, it was not, it was a 30mph dual carriage way with houses close to the road.

My fault, deserved fine, in fact, I deserved 2 fines, one for speeding and the other for not taking due care in that i did not see the 30mph signs

Hugh


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

On the lighter side, the current viewing figures on this subject are only exceeded by those interested in the removal of dead flies, does this mean the majority of us are worried about removing the flies because we dive too fast?

Ken S.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Hugh

Thank you Hugh, that explains precisely why I bought the Drive Smart.

Ken S.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I really cannot believe what I am reading from those "holier than thou" who say they never exceed the speed limit and shame on anyone who exceeds it....a case of "pride comes before a fall" I would say.....I do try to keep within the speed limits but there have been countless times when I suddenly realise that I am doing 35 or more in a 30 limit....only by good luck have I avoided a ticket. What do you "I never exceed the speed limit" types do when this happens to you.....do you go down the local nick and turn yourself in? :lol: 

Mike

P.S. to scotjimland ...do not drive through Worcestershire's 30 limits at 35 you will get a ticket...your rules don't work down here... 10%+1 mph is the rule in our neck of the woods


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Now, Now Spykal, just because someone in another thread said "things are getting a bit dull around here"  

Ken S.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)




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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Well said Spykal, show me anyone who says they never break or never have broken a speed limit and you will be showing me a liar or someone who lives with the fairies! Probably has the surname of Grimm as well!


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## IrishMike (May 1, 2005)

I would like to mention two things here.
Firstly be careful buying any detection equipment if you intend to travel outside the UK. They are completely illegal in many countries on the content, In France if your checked and they do it some times then the best you can hope for is to be turned back at the port and I think banned from entering France for a period. In Belgium I belive your vehicle can be impounded if you have one in your possession( ie fitted) even if it is not switched on. I guess they have detectors for the detectors now because have heard that they can even find when completely fitted (in the dash with the detector in the rad grill).
The second item is even if you get a ticket from a camera you can query it and even fight it. I have received a photo in the post once and decided to fight it and won. Alright I had a very good reason as I believed the system was malfunctioning and I managed to convince the magistrates of this. Also the person sent to back up the system from the company was not qualified to say anything about the system so they could not prove it was functioning correctly. If you belive the ticket was unfair I also think that there is an appeals procedure in many areas but you would need a police officer or council officer to give better info.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Paulway said:


> Well said Spykal, show me anyone who says they never break or never have broken a speed limit and you will be showing me a liar or someone who lives with the fairies! Probably has the surname of Grimm as well!


Paulway: I resent that ! I don't think I'm either lying or away with the fairies but I do pick up, very quickly, and retain the sound of the engine at different speeds and I can hear when the vehicule is going at 30, 40 etc. Independent testing ( ie husband) will confirm this. If I know the speed limit then I don't find it difficult to keep to it without constantly looking at the speedo for confirmation. I know the speed limits on all our local roads and roads I use regularly but, as I mentioned in my earlier post, it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep track of the frequent changes of limit on roads these days. Even the short distance to our nearest town has 5 different changes.

As I also said earlier, I've never even thought about a speed limit detector until recently but am beginning to think some kind of aural warning in the cab would be useful.

I'll get back to the fairies.....!

G.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> I used to think that add-on devices for detecting speed cameras were bought only by the semi-literate, beer-swilling types who drove 4x4s for status reasons.
> 
> G


Hi Grizzly

I know I do not have to stand up for Paulway he is big enough to do that for himself...but before you go resenting things , have a read of what you have written in this quote of yours....I am glad I do not have such a device or a 4x4 or I might be taken aback by your thoughts on the subject.....BUT if if as you seem to be saying "I drive within the speed limits"...._always_....I suppose we should not seek doubt you........... :lol:

Mike


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Mike: I draw your attention to the use of " *used *to think". Also to the later post ( and the implication in the original) that I no longer think that.

I'm coming round to the idea that these gizmos are useful if only so that I don't have to keep searching the trees and bushes at the road-side for hidden speed limit signs. I cannot however condone their use by people who normally exceed the speed limit and only slow down when their detector device tells them there is a live camera in front. I've noted that many of them are 4x4 drivers in an area of the country where there is not much need for the same, must be semi-literate if they cannot understand what a 30 mph sign means and implies and- yes, I admit to possible prejudice in terms of their drinking habits.

I've had 3 pupils that I taught killed by speeding drivers in 2 years. It does make you think.

G.

G


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

Isn't it more a question of intent. i.e always aim to drive within the speed limits...

Not that it matters, even with the best intent, the chances are that more and more it's a question of 'when' not 'if' you get summoned for speeding.

So far it's not happened to me, though I'm not sure the Cumbria police didn't get me the other week when my speed had crept above the legal limit without me consciously noticing, though I doubt they'd accept my plea of 'not intentional your honour'

It's facts like those contained within Boff's post which should make us all think about the effects of speed and any system which reminds us that we should be keeping our speed legal seems OK in my book and for system read 'method' not just technology i.e. Grizzly listening to the engine note. Though for me that wouldn't work as my quiet diesel has only a couple of hundred revs difference between 70 and 80 and I can hardly hear the engine anyway.


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

Most of these gadgets only warn you that a speed trap is up ahead, they do not help keep you within the speed limit, that is up to the driver. If you want to travel above the limit then do so but be ready to accept the consequences, a fine or maybe killing someone. I always try not to speed in 30/40/50 limits and find it hard to speed in 60/70 limits (van not that powerful), if I do speed and I get caught then I expect to be find.

I also think this thread has gone on long enough.

Ralph


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi
One consequence for users of speed trap detectors is that they think they are fireproof when it comes to getting caught by a speed trap....unfortunatly it does seem that this type of use ..."no need to worry I can speed because I know where the traps are" ..actually gets the user caught more often..... :lol: 


can a thread go on too long?? i thought that was the idea of a thread that is discussing some thing...to keep on discussing...when I get fed up with this thread I won't bother to read it anymore......which is probably right about now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Mike


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Stand by what I said Grizzly, I do not believe anyone has NEVER exceeded the speed limit even by 1 mph. You actually indicate yourself that you are constantly looking for signs that are obscured, there are many of those, how many have you missed, without realising in area's you are not used too, if you have not seen them you don't know you were actually speeding, thats why I did not leave my statement at all liars.
As regard speeding and deaths, as that has been brought up again, there are only 1.4 in ten fatal accidents where speed is the major factor of the fatality, 8.6 deaths are by other means such as drink driving, drug driving using mobile phones, dangerous driving, driving without due care and attention, there is a disproportianate amount of time and money being placed into speed enforcement because a large percentage of the revenue goes into the governments taxation coffers, it is a stealth tax.
Also regarding young persons being killed I have had someone much closer than someone I have taught killed, that was by a mobile phone using moran at 30mph, so all the sob tactics in the world don't move me from what I see as the truth.


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

The best thing that could happen is to do away with Cameras altogether.
I would introduce in-built speed limiters using GPS technology so that when you do drive in to a pedestrian zone or wherever you will be stopped from breaking the speed limit in the first place because the engine will not let you go any faster

This will save lives and also stop people criticising speed cameras and wasting Police time.

I do over 40,000 miles a Year in a car on company business

Hugh


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

I still don’t get why people want to exceeded the speed limit (especially the 30/40 limits), is this the best way you can think of to be a rebel?

Ralph


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Ralph

I think you will have a long wait for an answer from anyone on here...although we may seem to differ in our opinions about the placing of speed limits or the scale of fines for breaking them or how we manage to observe the limits or anything else to do with them none of us would seem to condone speeding in a 30 or 40 zone....I think we are all agreed on that ...or are we :?: 

Mike


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

I have a cruise control system fitted to my motorhome, when I get to a speed limit I engage it at the correct speed, and then I wait to see how large the queue gets behind me.
No matter what, if there is nothing behind me to start with its not long before the queue starts.
I don't have cruise control in the car, but wish I did as speed limits get changed on roads without you realising it and then it is easy to break the speed limit.
I am no saint and sometimes stray over the limit but when I notice I then go down to the limit.
In my opinion Cruise Control is the best way to attempt to stick to limits.

Eddie


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi all
My beef is with Grizzly's comments about Semi Literate, Beer Swilling 4x4 drivers.
I have over 160,000 miles driving experience of driving a 4x4 in about 4 years for a company, and currently own a Ford Explorer. I own that vehicle because I want to and because I can. There may be a lot of things that are denied to us nowadays but freedom of choice is still in the public domain I believe. 
I do not think I am semi literate and I do not swill beer. I also try to stick to the relevant speed limits and have done approximately 1 million miles without an accident.
What is your problem with people driving 4x4's?

I look forward to your answer.

Keith


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

spykal I agree with you, 
The main problem for me though is the sensible discretion side has been taken away. I know of some places where at 0100 in the morning 30mph is stupidly low, however I also know of places where at school going in and out times 30mph is stupidly high. I do try to observe speed limits but there is always that danger that you miss a hidden sign or some such and exceed only to be trapped by a camera that has been sited in a most ridiculous position, (one near us for instance was put in after two deaths in a year, however one was caused by a loose tractor wheel and tyre being carried on a trailer coming off and hiting a pedestrian on the pavement and the other by a driver who suffered a heart attack ploughing into a bus stop).
rapido
I do the same as you and will no doubt be caught at some stage.

Kands yes interesting comments, like you when I was working I was travelling high miles and one of my current vehicles is a 4x4, I don't think I am semi literate and I am T total so do not drink alcohol, as I already said I try to stick to speed limits as well (40 years clean licence says something I think) though I have been involved in several accidents, only one of which was my blame after a suspension joint snapped on a car I was driving and I was thrown into the path of an oncoming bus and car.
We both suffer from this phenomenon where noisy pressure groups somehow
get the ear of the media and there takes place a witch hunt, unfortunately narrow minded people tend to believe all they are told.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

"were bought only by the semi-literate, beer-swilling types *who drove 4x4s for status reasons. "*

Gentlemen; I hope you will see from the above quote from my initial posting, that I did not condemn * all * 4x4 drivers as semi-literate, beer swillers. I fully support the right of anyone to buy and drive any car they wish and I assume you bought and drive yours for purely practical reasons and not because they look glitzy and sexy in the driveway. I suppose, after many years of after school duties when lives have been endangered ( mine and my students) by 4x4 drivers who clearly cannot control them, that I've become a little embittered. Very few of the drivers ever drove off road or needed the 4 wd capacity - unless of course they were tuggers !

I have no other beef with 4x4s, or their drivers, am not a member of a pressure group and umpteen years of media bombardment have only made me into a free-thinker, not one who believes all she hears so you have no cause to vilify me.

G


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## 88844 (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps a good way to stop speeding is to start out earlier.


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## 91289 (May 1, 2005)

Now if ever I've imagined beer swilling semi-literate people it's just gotta be Paulaway and Kands :wink: 

I don't own a 4x4 but I covet a series 3 landy to do up one day in my garage (which I currently don't have), however I'm slightly with Grizzly on this one, though I struggle to define why some 4x4 drivers irritate me and some don't :? help me out someone....


Tim


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I always thought that it was better to arrive 5 minutes late in this world than 20 years too early in the next.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

TandD said:


> I struggle to define why some 4x4 drivers irritate me and some don't :? help me out someone....


I had a Landrover Discovery when I towed a caravan.. brilliant tool, sorry I had to sell it when I bought a motorhome.. 
To answer the above question I find that many 4 x 4 drivers are bullies .. it's an extension of their character. They ( not all) push in and cut you up and generally behave like spoiled brats.. A simialar conduct as 'white van man' practices. 
However, I defend the the right for anyone to own one for whatever reason.. they pay for the privilege through fuel tax


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

Hi All,

Following previous posts, does that mean all Golf drivers are boy racers, BMW drivers are flash gits, Freelander drivers are wannabee's and Scooby drivers should be on a race track?

I drive my 4 x 4 because it is spacious, handles well, is good to drive in snow and slippery conditions etc etc. If you have never driven one, you might think it is purely for off roading.

'and not because they look glitzy and sexy in the driveway'. As for sexy and glitzy - really? Are you sure you are not thinking about sports cars?

'they pay for the privilege through fuel tax'. This applies to motorhomers as well!! 
My Explorer does better on fuel that my previous estate car!

One last thing - bullies drive all makes of vehicle, including 4 x 4's. It maybe seems a little more intimidating with a 4 x 4 because the vehicle sits that much higher off the ground.

Sharon


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Grizzly

I own a 4x4 precisely because it looks sexy and glitzy and not really because of its off road capability. If we go off road the "save our walkway" pansies start howling at us. Ever heard of snow? Or rain? Our Explorer does pretty well on the road in inclement weather too. If we all chose our possessions because of their practicality, then we would all wear wellies all winter, and most certainly would not own motorhomes, unless we were all full timers or travellers.
I have seen more rudeness and lack of control from drivers of BMW's and Mercs and a plethora of little souped up cars and in my experience it is the drivers of small cars that carve me up. Most 4x4 drivers are very aware of the vehicle they drive and do not hammer around with the stereo up so loud that they cannot think properly, and drive according to the capabilities of the vehicle. I clearly cannot speak for all 4x4 drivers but please do me a favour and do not categorise ALL drivers of 4x4s just because you have been observant enough to notice some of them behaving badly.
Please don't think that highlighting a portion of your original statement will endear you to me or anyone else, I believe you meant the whole sentence, not just the part you now wish to bring to our attention.
I will not make the assumption that you bought your motorhome for "purely practical reasons and not because they look glitzy and sexy in the driveway", after all I believe in FREEDOM.
I have posted a couple of links so you can see the different attitudes of different vehicle owners....

http://www.lro.com/nav?page=lroi.home

http://www.lrm.co.uk/

http://www.fastcar.co.uk/

http://www.maxpower.co.uk/homepage/

Please look at these links and then tell me who fits the beer swilling, semi literate owners who just drive their cars for status reasons.

BTW our 4x4 cost less than a bottom of the range used mini..... Status??
I don't think so.

Keith


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

RockieRV said:


> Following previous posts, does that mean all Golf drivers are boy racers, BMW drivers are flash gits, Freelander drivers are wannabee's and Scooby drivers should be on a race track?


Just about covers it Sharon .. :wink:

No offence meant to any responsible drivers and owners of 4 x 4s .. my comment about bullies is an observation, yes they drive all kinds of vehicles including HGVs , it's not the vehicle but the mentality .. I'm sure you are not one of them..

Jim


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Keith; you can believe what you like about my categorisation of some types of 4x4 drivers. I think I 'm unlikely to make you believe that I am telling the truth.

The fact that you feel the need to be so defensive does rather strengthen my argument however.


G


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Naturally all BMWs are not driven by Grade A plonkers, but I must confess a factor in me not buying one was that I did not want to be thought of as one.

A gentle friend who owns a BMW 4.3l V8 objected to this, until he was forced to drive his wife's small car for a week, after which he apologised to me, saying that he was really fed up of being carved-up and rear-bumpered by BMWs all week.

So, I conclude there is much truth in stereotypes, Hoewever, people who conclude that because Type A people drive Type B cars, all drivers of Type B cars are Type A are simply wrong.

Dave


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Grizzly
I know more about defense than you will ever know.

Who's truth are you referring to??? Yours I imagine.

If you think my comments are defensive then you obviously have missed the point totally.

Keith


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Kands

I am afraid that, in my experience, when trying to reason with a lot of people within the field that Grizzly appears to be from, it is common for them to be patronising condesending and think that they know better than everyone else. It is also common for them to try to take the moral high ground.
Sad really they live in a world where they have only ever experienced their own envioronment and fail to understand there is another point of view.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Gentlemen ( and I shall continue to use that term even though your behaviour does not warrant it) this forum is no place for personal attack. I could continue but feel no need to do so as you are both proving yourselves unable to argue dispassionately and without bigotry.

G


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Thank you for your kind words Grizzly. I think readers of this post will be able to work out who is the bigot.

I rest my case, BTW well put paulway, couldn't have said it better myself.

Keith


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Made a point of not making it a personal attack however if the cap fits wear it! You cannot expect to make the judgemental comments that you have made in this thread and not expect anyone to respond, at all times in my view perfectly reasonably and without rudeness.
Still if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen!!!


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## fjmike (May 10, 2005)

I also drive a 4x4 but it being a little Suzuki Jimny am not that likely to be breaking many speed limits. I think like others on this posting SPEED DOES NOT KILL inappropriate use of speed does as well as using mobile phones , not paying attention (ie looking for speed cameras), and many other reasons. The powers that be want Joe Public to swallow this whole speed kills nonsense and think that they can bully people into their way of thinking. Don't get me wrong though about 30 and 40 limits they are there for a reason and should be obeyed but more work needs to be done with driver education rather than the present system of stealth taxation.


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I seem to remember that the national speed limit was set at 70mph for motorways as a temporary measure when there was a fuel shortage. When are they going to take it off ?? Or at least harmonize with the rest of Europe ?


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

fjmike

Couldn't agree more, its just more 'spin' to cloud the issues of lack of proper policing to save money and as a spin off collect more, the public for some reason are taken in.
If there was proper policing as against speed tax devices then there would be a real possibility of reducing the 80% of other deaths that occur.
Just a thought if they were able to reduce by 25% the fatalities caused by other means than speed, there would be a greater reduction than if they prevented speeding by 100%, think about that.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

As to reducing road injuries and deaths, I am still intrigued by the concept of banning all safety devices, whether belts, bags, speed limits, speed cameras, etc., and replacing them with a mandated 6 inch spike in the middle of the steering wheel.

I suspect that most deaths & injuries are attributable to an illusion of safety. So get rid of the illusion.

Before I get maimed in the rush to condemn, this is intended as a thought- experiment, nothing more.

Dave


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

You have my support Dave


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

But would you be to find an insurance co. to cover you.

Ken S.


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I dont have a need for a GPS mapping system and I do not want a speed camera warning device. However I would like something that could give me a warning if I was to exceed the speed limit. Is there such a device available?


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

A speedometer, 

sorry couldn’t resist it.

Ralph


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

or even one of these :lol:


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

But I think this may be what you really need:










available from

>>>> Link to Sempal <<<<<

Mike


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Woah Spykal,
There is not much info there, do you know how it works? Does it have to be connected to the speedo? Does it work with any vehicle?
If you don't know guess I will have to try and contact them and find out, you were very quick to show the link though so I wondered if you know more.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Paulway

No sorry I do not know much more myself...I found them a while back and meant to call in there sometime to have a look. I will be going over that way sometime this week so I may get a chance to call in and have a look.

But I am guessing that it uses a GPS reciever to keep track of the speed you are actually doing.

Mike


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Hello Spykal

That would be very interesting if you could find out more, bit far for me to call in, it does seem to me to be the sort of thing I would find useful as trying to ensure you stay at the correct speed with no creep because your attention is mainly on the road, is my main worry as I do try to keep to limits. That is the main reason I have avoided detectors, they tell you where the traps are but do nothing to assist you to keep to the speed limit.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

rowley

Yes, the Drive smart will, but at the moment you can only set it for one predetermind speed, if you go over by as much as 1mph it will nag you until you come down to that speed. The units will have a software update soon to raise or lower the set speed by 10 mph at a time by touching one of the buttons.

But it still contains the camera info.

Ken S.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The sempal device works off the speedo input:
http://speed-sensors-avoid-speeding-fines.co.uk/speed.htm

AFAIK, there is no national speed limit database linked to a GPS to display the current speed limit (and then warn if above it). All the ones I'm aware of merely do this in the vicinity of a speed camera.

Dave


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

spykal

An interesting peice of equipment, I don't see any wires for the GPS, so I wonder how they determine the speed, by the look of it I would say there's no audio but flashing LEDs

Ken S.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Dave

Partly but not strictly true as you will see from my posting, I know I've harped on about it enough, so no more than to say I'm cock-a-hoop with it and will not drive without it, enough said.

Ken S.


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

KenS
If you follow Daves link (don't know how he found that 8) , it gives further explaination and it does have audible and LED warning, also it is speed pulse operated conected by 4 wires and calibrated to the vehicle.
Interesting peice of kit that I may well invest in.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Paulway

Yes, unfortunately I was typing whilst dave was posting so I was a bit out of sinc, Two questions I would ask are, can one hear the audio above the M/H engine and how accurate is it because speedo's are not very accurate at all.

You would need to calibrate it using GPS to get it accurate.

Rgds Ken S.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi DAB

thanks for that, strange how that info was not available on the Sempal website.

You have saved me going a mile or two out of my way to visit them.

Mike


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

KenS
Yes I understand what you are saying, but from Dave's link the speed would be what you set it too, so you could set it to your speedo or to your satnav if you have one. As I know from my satnav that my speedo over reads by some 5mph at 60mph i.e. speedo says 60 satnav says 55, I would be happy to calibrate it to either!
The sound, well in our van, fitted with Noise Killer Acoustics soundproofing kit, not an advert just a satisfied customer for a product that actually does what it says, I can clearly hear everything I want now as in a car, providing the sound output is half reasonable I would be sure I could hear it.

Spykal

I thought it strange that info was not very accessable to, thanks again Dave


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm not sure if I'm talking at cross-purposes but the Drive Smart website says:
"Displays if you are over the speed limit for a warning location".
It does NOT say it does this for "anywhere in the UK". The latest update indeed does do it between SPECS gates, but these are very few and far between.

However. they will be attending the PocketGPS meet at Basingstoke, and demonstrating some latest bits.

The sempal unit needs manual input of speed limit by pressing the appropriate button.

Dave


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi again
I have remembered a device that got a lot of publicity when it was released earleir this year..it is an interesting bit of GPS kit...speed trap warnings, input your own local warnings...30 limits,40 limits etc. Us as a GPS unit in conjuction with a laptop... and cheap!

>>>>>>INFORAD<<<<<<

Having had a look at availability it is only £66 here

>>>Cheap Inforad<<<<

Mike


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Hi Spykal

Yes this is one I have been considering, super low price you have found, for me my only concern is that I would like a device that tells me I am going over the speed limit rather than one that tells me I am about to approach a trap. Certainly in our area the mobile devices that are in use and moved constantly to different locations are more of concern than the fixed Tax Machines, I believe that it is one of those that will evenrually get me in an inadvertant moment!!
May consider both though, kill two birds with one stone!!


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Dave

I am pretty sure that we are not at cross purposes, the unit will give audio and visual warning as soon as you go over the predetermined speed whether in this country, another country or in your own private estate :lol: . the predetermined speed is set by you at any time, all updates to ALL the known cameras, mobile or fixed, can be downloaded almost daily (FOC) to keep up to date.
The product page does not go into much detail, it is best to download the manual ( pdf file) on the support section.

Paulway

From what you say about your requirements it would appear that the SPAL unit may be your best bet, you would not have the upates to pay for ( after 12 months) nor would you be relying on the update accuracy, you would also not need to carry the laptop with you at all times.

Rgds Ken S.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Ken,

OK, but that "predetermined speed" has to be input manually. I was trying to answer rowley's request which I interpreted as was there a device that could automatically warn you if you went above the speed limit. For that you would need GPS and a national coverage speed limit database, not merely a database giving the speed limits in force AT camera locations.

My cruise control has a speed limiter function that simply overrides the throttle, and indeed changes down when going downhill say, if your speed goes above a "predetermined speed", but that has to be set by me via the cruise stalk. I tend to use it when in unfamiliar urban areas.

Dave


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Dave 

All understood.

With regards to cruise control, although I do not have it on my M/H several previous cars have, I have found them very good for distance driving and places like duel carriageways and motor ways but could never really get on with them in an urban environment, I found that there was too much braking and acceleration to be able to use it for any length of time.

Probably lack of expertise on my part

Ken S.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The speed limiter function on certain cruise controls still allows you to control the car with the throttle BELOW the set speed as normal, it is just that when you reach the set speed, only kickdown or shutting off the limiter function will allow you to go ABOVE that speed. Basically the computer overrides.


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Sorry to cut across all this technical stuff but I thought you would be interested in something that happened yesterday.
I live on a suburban road which is 30mph, I was out waiting to cross the road when I saw a young woman coming up the road at a speed I estimate at about 30mph, but I was amazed to see 2 very large fire engines close behind her making a deafening noise, Horns blaring, headlights flashing, sirens wailing.
But she had the radio so loud that she drove along hands waving in the air completely oblivious to the fire engines behind her, I stood on the edge of the pavement and waved to he trying to get her attention but no she carried on into the village. If anyone had moved into the road they would have been stone dead as she was not aware of anything going on around her, so its not always the speeders that are at fault.
While I am posting, has anyone noticed a decline in the number of people using mobile phones on the move? I haven't.
PS. I am not anti female drivers persee
Cheers Sid


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

SidT said:


> While I am posting, has anyone noticed a decline in the number of people using mobile phones on the move? I haven't.


Decline... ? not at all , you see it all the time. A recent survey, by the AA I believe, found that 30% of drivers had used a mobile (not hands free) while driving..but I don't think it's the act of physically holding the phone that's dangerous .. IMO it's holding the conversation that detracts.


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## 89008 (May 11, 2005)

nobby said:


> Why not just drive within the speed limits.
> Much safer and less likely to get a fine or points.
> Why the hurry
> 
> nobby


Quite right and easily said. - However -

Since I received my threatening letter (Pay £60 now or argue and risk £1000) I was alarmed to be informed by my onboard speed monitoring device (wife) that I now appear to be spending roughly equal amounts of time looking at the road ahead as I do looking down at the speedo.
I now also find that travelling at the speed limit means I am the lead car in a convoy of vehicles which overtake one by one with drivers indicating their displeasure with various hand signals.
I have also recently had one extremely gratifing experience. On the approach to one village favoured by police mobile scamera units I hit the brakes just before the 30mph sign and entered the restricted area at an indicated 30mph.
Jack the Lad behind me changed down two gears and went past me revving his engine and giving the usual two fingered salute.
On the verge ahead, - you've guessed - , Pc pointing speed gun pulled him in.
Laugh ? I nearly wet myself.
One other satisfying pastime is the traffic light drag race.
It's amazing just how quickly a stripped down 2.8 turbo diesel can accelerate.
Of to the motoshop now to price up some wide wheels, strobe lights for underneath and a 24" sub woofer (whatever that is)
:roll:


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well Colpops, it goes to show how many idiots are driving in and around you, I suggest you keep to the speed limit and maybe the idiots will get the message.

And i bet you got home quicker than the guy who shot past you and then got pulled in.

Hugh


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