# Elecsol battery weights. "calcium calcium" technol



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

I've just had my 270 Ah/hr Elecsol delivered via courier. Thanks Outdoorbits, fast service & no sign of any spillages.

When I picked up the battery to bring it indoors it felt lighter than the 62 Kg quoted on the Elecsol webby. Mrs Davesports extra HD bathroom scales have the weight at 42 KG. Something's not right then ?

A quick call to Elecsol reveals that they are now using "calcium calcium" which has effectively reduced the weight by a third ? 

Can anyone shed any light on this battery technology? I can't find anything on the internet. Me being a skeptic am wondering if the price of lead has anything to do with the switch to calcium calcium. I assumed I the weight was a consequence of the amount of lead required in a lead acid battery.

What's the scoop ?

TIA Dave.


----------



## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Elecsol battery weights. "calcium calcium" tec*




davesport said:


> What's the scoop ?
> 
> TIA Dave.


Sorry Dave, I can't help, but as a fan of Elecsols, I too would be interested in the answer to your questions. A third less weight? That's a fair bit, especially where payload is crucial.

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi Dave,

Just spoken to Elecsol because I am considering switching to them from Exide Gel. This is what they told me:

1. The new Calcium technology does not replace lead. It is to do with improving electrolyte recombination. So they are now completely sealed and you do not have to top them up - ever.

2. The Schaudt EBL 3-stage charging regime, which runs up to 14.3V and charges at up to 18A, before dropping to 13.8A float charge is fine.

3. The battery selector should be set to Lead-Acid (I think someone posted here recently that it should remain set to Gel) but that's not what Mr. Elecsol has just told me. He said the 1 hour second stage charge that the L/A setting provides is appropriate.

4. It is wise to vent the Elecsol batteries to the outside (via a tube in my case as they are under the floor and accessible from a trap beneath the L-shaped settee). Under normal circumstances there should be no hydrogen created, but there would be 'gassing' if one of the cells failed.

Hope this is of some use.

Philip


----------



## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

JeanLuc said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Just spoken to Elecsol because I am considering switching to them from Exide Gel. This is what they told me:
> 
> ...


Hi Philip,

That is interesting. Thanks.

Jock.


----------



## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

JeanLuc said:


> 1. The new Calcium technology does not replace lead. It is to do with improving electrolyte recombination. So they are now completely sealed and you do not have to top them up - ever.


Lead HEAVY. Calcium light. Lead expensive.

Bottom line is that they are selling you less lead.

Now they may have perfected a manufacturing process and need less lead or the old sceptic says they may have sold you a battery that will not last as long or stand abuse.


----------



## WSandME (May 16, 2007)

> Bottom line is that they are selling you less lead.


The bottom line only becomes apparent after deciding whether performance has been reduced. If it hasn't, then I'd suggest that this is a _very_ good development.

20kg saving per battery is not insubstantial, and the reduced amount of lead requiring mining, refining, processing and disposal must be factored in.

If the technology means that we get similar or better performance, the "bottom line" of being sold "less lead" is not a bad thing.


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Well, old skeptic me says I'm 20 Kg's short of lead. However I've no idea what makes a good battery IE suitable for use in a MH or not. 

I've yet to compare results with the gels I've taken out. As for longevity only time will tell. Elecsols come with a 5 year warranty which is activated on return of a warranty card.

Squadron 260 Ah/hr battery's weigh a collossal 90 Kg's at around the same physical size. Double the weight of an Elecsol. There is mention on the Squadron webby of "calcium hybrid battery" on the Monbat page.

I'm just having a moan probably for no good reason. I'll be monitoring the performance of my new battery closely.

Watch this space.

D.


----------



## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

davesport said:


> Elecsols come with a 5 year warranty which is activated on return of a warranty card.D.


Can't be bad. Depending, once again, on the small print and real world attitude. So if in 4 years you say you are down to half storage I wonder what happens ? To be fair to them they don't know if you've abused the battery.

We still have the original 5 YO battery in our Burstner. I must confess I've no idea what it's current capacity is.


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Amongst other things I've had a look on t'internet for more information on Calcium Calcium batteries. I can't find any bad feedback & have copied & pasted the article below. I know it says "benefits" but I honestly can't find anything bad.....so far. D.

BENEFITS OF CALCIUM-CALCIUM MF BATTERIES
Completely maintenance free for its active life. 
Extremely low self-discharge providing there is no electrical drain on the battery. It could stand for up to one year and then still have enough power to start the vehicle. Ideal for vehicles, boats, machinery, motor homes, standby generators etc that are not used on a regular basis. 
High performance-Generally they are high performance batteries putting out high CCA's (Cold Cranking Amps) 
Vibration and impact resistant-High density pasted plates are used which improve life- cycle and are resistant to vibration 
Resistant to thermal runaway-Conventional batteries being used in very hot applications, ie courier vans etc, are prone to a phenomenon called thermal runaway where the battery gets that hot that it just continues to accept charge that it eventually cooks itself. Calcium-Calcium are not prone to this phenomenon so that makes them ideal for this application. 
Reduced failure due to sulphation-As a conventional battery discharges at roughly 1% per day a battery not being used on a regular basis needs to be recharged every two months to prevent sulphation. Briefly what happens is that you have your battery plates which are surrounded by sulphuric acid. When a battery discharges sulphuric acid is absorbed into the plates, by recharging it the battery acid is pushed out of the plates and no damage is done. However if a battery is left in a discharged state for a period of time (ie even a couple of weeks) the sulphuric acid turns in a crystal called sulphation, and once the plates are sulphated you can throw the battery away. Because Calcium-Calcium battery has an extremely low self-discharge the chances are that you will be using a vehicle/boat etc within a year and thus recharging the battery and therefore preventing sulphation occurring. 
Increased life time- Because of high density plates, wrought calcium grids and reduced corrosion of the battery plates and the fact that it will never be run dry, we can expect a longer service life. 
Calcium-Calcium batteries are extremely difficult batteries to produce and many a manufacturer have fallen by the wayside due to failure in their attempt to make a Calcium-Calcium Battery

We have every confidence in this product as the manufacturer has been producing the maintenance free battery since 1980 so have many years of experience and have thus perfected this technology

Taken from here


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

davesport said:


> Well, old skeptic me says I'm 20 Kg's short of lead. However I've no idea what makes a good battery IE suitable for use in a MH or not.
> 
> I've yet to compare results with the gels I've taken out. As for longevity only time will tell. Elecsols come with a 5 year warranty which is activated on return of a warranty card.
> 
> ...


A lighter battery, and you are complaining  it has been the holy grail for battery designers for more years than I care to remember ...and then they do it and ........


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

As I said Frank "Old skeptic me"  

No free lunch etc, learned from the skool of life :lol: 

On the plus side I've got another 20 Kg's of payload  

D.


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

A small aside

I once went to meet the aircraft battery guru at RAE Farnborough, as it was then called, we talked at length about details of the NiCad battery.

This wizened old scientist then *effortlessly* swung a battery up on to the bench. I suppose that comes with practice I said,

no, he said, that comes of it being an empty case


----------



## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> This wizened old scientist then *effortlessly* swung a battery up on to the bench. I suppose that comes with practice I said,
> no, he said, that comes of it being an empty case


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


----------



## Whiskeymac (Jul 20, 2005)

It may be tempting to not charge the battery when not in use, but this link states that this is not a good idea.

Calcium-Calcium Batteries

I keep my M/H cabled up at home so this is good for this type of battery.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The only bottom line I note is that Elecsol have said a lot in this thread but a credible explanation for the dramatic weight loss is conspicuous by its absence.

Dave


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> The only bottom line I note is that Elecsol have said a lot in this thread but a credible explanation for the dramatic weight loss is conspicuous by its absence.
> 
> Dave


There's a partial explanation for this ! I wouldn't be so presumptious as to say I have the defacto answer, but I have a theory.

The original "270" battery bought from ODB went pear shaped after two years & I needed a replacement quickly to use the van. So I bought another 270 from another supplier. My new 270 was significantly bigger & heavier than the original 270 which I still had in my possesion. I started looking at the battery weights & dimensions again as the discrepancy was puzzling me. My original "270" was identical in size & weight to the advertised 210. I then presented Elecsol with the warranty claim for the original knackered battery & recieved another "full size" 270 in return. Both of the new 270's are the advertised size & weight.

This leads me to believe my original "270" was infact a smaller battery, possibly a 210 labeled as a 270. This would also account for some of the missing lead.

D.


----------



## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

I tried to claim warranty on my Elecsols when they failed after 30 months, went back to my supplier who had stopped stocking Elecsols after having so many probs trying to get warranty issues sorted without success so ended up buying some cheaper lead acid jobbies with a view to being able to replace them without crying.
Chris


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

I can say hand on heart, I had no problems with the Elecsol warranty. I supplied all the bits of paper (Test cert, original invoice & my portion of the warranty slip) & recieved a new battery via courier delivery.

D.


----------



## Whiskeymac (Jul 20, 2005)

Thank you for the valuable info in this thread, on the basis of which I bought and fitted two 125aH Elecsols in my Hymer, since Elecsol had no 270s in stock. These were connected in parallel and the meter set for 250aH max, 200aH nominal.

All seemed well and I fitted a solar panel immediately afterwards. At some time in the procedings, during which the power switch was off and on several times, the meter displayed 100aH ? which, when flipped, translated to 50%. No significant charging current was being taken so I was convinced that this was a glitch and not undercharged batteries. Besides, the ? showed that the meter was still working on it! Days passed and no matter what I did, the reading persisted.

In the end, I unplugged the mains hookup and switched on everything, so that a discharge of 13 amps was showing. When the display showed 98aH ? I switched it all off and plugged in the mains again. In half an hour it showed 200aH ? which subsequently lost the ?. I've no idea why this would happen but all's well.

Incidentally, before hooking up, the 90watt, single solar panel was putting out 4.9 amps with the sun out and 1.5amps with cloud cover. I reckon I'm sorted.

One afterthought. There are entries on this forum that decry keeping a M/H permanently hooked to the mains. Well how does that hold good if it's OK to have a solar panel putting out a charge every day?! Load of rubbish to my way of thinking, backed up by the supplier of my panel and batteries.


----------



## Whiskeymac (Jul 20, 2005)

Just thought I'd add that if a tracker system is installed in a motorhome it will always consume battery power. Apparently the most recent ones are a bit less thirsty, but they still need power and so a home hookup is essential, at least in winter when the sun is too low for charging by solar panel.


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*batteries*

how elle do These stack up?

-V- Calcium-Calcium

440Ah for £319 delivered!

TM


----------



## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Or these 450 for 319.98?

Seem to have more quoted cycles to 50%dod...


----------



## Gazzer (May 1, 2005)

teemyob said:


> how elle do These stack up?
> -V- Calcium-Calcium 440Ah for £319 delivered! TM


Ultra Plus
12v 220ah 
2 year warranty
150 cycles @ 50% DOD
Weight 48kg
Dimensions: 512 x 276 x 280



Ozzyjohn said:


> Or these 450 for 319.98?
> Seem to have more quoted cycles to 50%dod...


Explorer
12v 225ah 
3 year warranty
500 cycles @ 50% DOD 
Dimensions(mm)â€¨513 x 276 x 240 
Weight 50kg

Elecsol 
12v 220ah
Dimensions (LxWxH): 513 x 223 x 223 mm.
Weight: 49kg.
Cycle life: 1000 cycles to 80%dod.
5 year warranty
Price £243 but I believe that if you ask they can be got for around £155 each.
In conclusion Elecsol win it for me with longer warranty, twice the cycle life and smaller size. :wink:


----------



## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> In conclusion Elecsol win it for me with longer warranty, twice the cycle life and smaller size. :wink:


Careful here - the comparison is flawed.

The batteries linked to by Teemyob and myself were each quoting a number of cycles to 50% discharge.
The Elecsol refers to a higher number of cycles - but only discharging to 80% which is, I believe, much less stressful to the battery (which is why you can do it more times).

I'd still possibly be interested to know where the Elecsol 220Ah batteries can be found for as little as £155 (the size is more convenient).

Thanks,
John


----------



## Gazzer (May 1, 2005)

Ozzyjohn said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > In conclusion Elecsol win it for me with longer warranty, twice the cycle life and smaller size. :wink:
> ...


I take your point, debatable as it may be. But I still believe they are the better buy. Try ringing Elecosol directly and ask them for their best price :wink: I know another MHF member who achieved that price and I believe that included delivery.
Of course if enough people here were interested, a bulk buy might deliver even greater savings?


----------



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

I went for 2 of these.

Paul.


----------

