# Autosleeper frost damage leakage



## Weareoff

Hope someone may be able to advise.
We have an Autosleeper Northants 2010. 

Having done all I thought possible to drain the water system and heater last year before the severe Winter hit us (we got to minus 15) I hoped all would be OK. (I had drained all water, open the heater valve, ran the pump until dry, opened all taps).
So when I filled up today to test everything before starting our 2011 travels and saw water running across the inside floor.... my heart sank!
It was coming from the pipe that goes from the heater to the shower/wash basin and runs below the partition wall between heater cupboard and shower room. It only runs when the water pump is switched on. I guess a loose connection caused by frost damage?

Needless to say you cannot get to those pipes. Clever design that!
I suppose panels need to come off etc etc....

Firstly, why do manufacturers not insulate those hard-to-get-to pipes and secondly, why make them so difficult to access? I will be contacting Autosleeper to ask those questions.

So, any advice from other MH'ers who have had similar problems this winter would be much appreciated.


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## Perseus

I am going to watch your post very carefully, Weareoff, because when somebody else posted the fact that he had ordered a Northants, he got just one reply....me.

I had a 2010 Northants on a Merc chassis, but sold it cos we missed the big wide open door of a panel van.

My point is no-one else responded which rather goes to show that there are very few Northants owners out there, at least very few who are on MHF.

This is a really big surprise to me cos the Nothants is a fantastic van and has everything going for it that anyone could imagine.

I do hope you get a useful reply to help you with your leak problem.

John


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## Weareoff

Now't so far........we live in hope!

Perhaps the post was too specific.

Maybe the question should be focussed on why many manufacturer 's fail to provide any suitable "winterisation" to plumbing. When a motorhome costs so much a buyer should expect some degree of quality protection from potential frost damage. That should include an abilty to fully drain down all habitation water systems After all, we do live in a pretty cold climate in the UK.


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## Mrplodd

They dont insulate everything to save money !! A few quid saved is a few quid extra profit in their pockets. 

If it freezes the response you will get from the makers will be along the lines of "Well you knew it was freezing cold so you should have drained all the water out so it didnt freeze!" Which to be fair is a reasonable answer, we all know water freezes at (about) 0 degrees C dont we ??

Insulation only keeps heat in when its there in the first place. If your van is stood for days and days in sub zero temperature everything is going to be at the ambient (cold) temperature

Why is it these days if anything goes wrong its always someone elses fault? If the pipes froze in my MH and sprung a leak I would consider only one person to be at fault, ME!! for not draining it down properly!! (That does not mean I wouldnt be cross though!!) 

Oooh I bet LOADS of people are going to have a go at me now! but before you do please just think about what I have said and ask yourself if I am not actually right!!

( Yes I am being a bit provocative but its a reasonable arguement isnt it.)


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## Weareoff

Mrplodd said:


> They dont insulate everything to save money !!
> 
> All I ask for is a water system that is a bit better quality than the automatic drip feed system that I use to water my hanging baskets (which is what my MH plumbing looks like). Surely not much to ask.
> 
> Even the manufacturer's agents admitted that the design of Motorhome plumbing is extremely basic in two ways:
> 
> 1. It is not possible to drain ALL water from the system no matter how much care you take, so small amounts of residual water can still damage joints/pipes in freeze conditions. The position of the MH when you drain can affect how much water comes out. Even running until pump is dry will not guarantee 100% water drain.
> 2. Some plastic pipes, if damaged, are impossible to access without removing panels in the shower room.
> 
> I just hope that other MH'ers on this forum are not unlucky.
> Moral is: Best check early rather that the day before you want to travel.
> 
> I hope your system is OK.....


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## sweetie

Our van has stood all winter and when we filled up today everything was ok. We have no insulation on any pipes but the dealer drained everything down PROPERLY when we had habitation service last november. People often forget to leave all taps open including the SHOWER tap.

It must be possible to drain down completely or we would all have water leaks after the cold spell we have had this winter.

Our dealer has about 60 vans on his forecourt how would he manage if he could not drain down completely.

Steve


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## karlb

am i missing something? 

is this the subs bar?

why are people acting like tossers instead of giving advice?


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## barryd

Yes come on give the guy a break. I bet there are loads of people who get caught out. I did. We went away for 16 nights over Christmas and New year and I didnt check the van over. I thought I had drained everything but I hadn't left the taps open (didn't know to do this) so there was still water in the pipes. It took 3 days to thaw out!

Our van is winterised but it will make not one jot of difference how winterised your van is if its sat for weeks on end in sub zero temperatures any water in the pipes will eventually freeze.

I also didn't know to take the shower head off and of course it cracked. I did manage to glue it back together and so far its still working which is quite remarkable for me.

Im the last person to give advice about this sort of thing and I hope someone does come along to help you soon.


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## Perseus

It rather looks as if I was correct, Weareoff, when I said I didn't think you would receive advice from a fellow Northants owner. As I said previously owners of this particular mh just don't seem to be members of MHF.

This surprises me because in all sincerity the Northants is unbeatable as a two-person coachbuilt. In my opinion there is nothing else in the coachbuilt market for a couple that can beat it.

We would have kept ours, except we missed the big wide open door. I just hope that we don't regret letting it go.

So far as plumbing is concerned I think that the plumbing design in any mh should take normal drain-downs into account. You described what you did before the winter really struck and in my view that should have been enough to ensure that when you filled up again it would be without leak problems.

I hope you can get everything fixed without too much trouble.

John


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## sallytrafic

There are two registered Northants owners on MHF neither has posted on this thread. The OP doesn't come up as a Northants owner either


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## sweetie

karlb said:


> am i missing something?
> 
> is this the subs bar?
> 
> why are people acting like tossers instead of giving advice?


I gave advice DRAIN IT DOWN PROPERLY don't blame the manufacturer. :wink:


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## Weareoff

Hey I give up on this one folks! Thanks to those who helped. 
To those who think I am a rubbish mechanic......perhaps I am.

But my thread was really about asking if anyone had had a similar experience (it's what MHF is really good at) and also an attempt to see if others thought that manufacturers could improve the specification of the fixed plumbing in modern MH's.

Best put this one on page 2 quickly........


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## duxdeluxe

I think that it is reasonable to take reasonable winter precautions, which is what most of us do. It appears that this has been done in this case, so although it is strictly true to say that it was the responsibility of the OP (who was looking for advice not sympathy), it is also a manifestly poor bit of design where a system doesn't drain easily and completely. 

My own van was "completely" drained today and I'll fill it and check for leaks today.

It is very discouraging to read threads like this where someone asks a reasonable question on shared experiences and for some reason (the actual time of the evening of some posts might have ome significance here) is simply insulted for no particular reason. I'm a member of several forum/discussion groups on various subjects and don't see the same elsewhere. It seems to be quite common on here that as soon as some appears to be less than perfect with an event, the vultures descend and aggressively pick over the bones of the post, squabbling away until all the meat is exhausted and then retreating until another event occurs. **

This forum is full of good advice and like many others have had a lot of good advice; it's just a shame that events like this thread occur.

**cue vultures descending upon me for daring to criticise - go ahead if you want, it will just be one member less on here, as I think the above point is both fair and reasonable, and there are plenty of other places to go. I don't envy the moderators, who volunteer to do a very difficult job


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## zulurita

I hope you get your leak fixed.

It is a real pity that people post in the way they do i.e. moaning/blaming the original poster.

Auto Sleepers are usually good at helping out.


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## Patchworkqueen

Hi I can verify that AS are always very willing to help if you ask.
I suggest that you phone Trevor in the AS Service centre. Phone number will be in your handbook but if you can't find it post again and I will find it for you.
regards Chris 
a very happy AS owner


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## zappy61

I know its a bit late after the event but if you drain everything down there will still be water left in the pump and some pipework. I removed the panels and insulated mine but insulation will only slow the freezing process down you also need some heat to prevent freezing. A heater (oil filled radiator) set to frost or a trace heating cable around the pump and adjacent pipework. If your not on EHU then it is a problem.

Regards,

Graham


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## rosalan

I am so sorry that you have this problem which, in spite of some comments, could happen to anyone. 
My guess, and it is a guess, is that a pushfit connector has popped open with the pressure of ice. This means that pipes should not have split. 
The cure is to remove the pushfit connector, clean the pipe of any scratches when the fitting came off and fit a new push-fit connector. The cost of parts should be negligable. 
The problem is removing all of the panels, not actually difficult and within most peoples ability but the panels can be quite brittle and cold weather will make them more so. A cracked panel will not be cheap to replace. 
There are always choices.... do it yourself= cheap but could cause damage. 
Get it repaired, perhaps a few hours labour charges. 
Under warranty (different model) I had this work done which took 3+ hours and they broke one light fitting and put a small crack in a panel. 
Good luck! 
Alan


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## inkey-2008

The trouble with most motorhome plumbing systems is they are not well designed and are difficult to drain down completely from what I have seen. 

The Truma heater hot water outlet is at the top of the tank so when you open the drain all the water in the hot pipes will not drain out unless they have a drain point lower that the heater. 

So if your system relies on the Truma frost drain point, get another drain point put in the hot water pipe at the lowest point 
Also if you put your mouth over the hot taps and blow down the pipe this will also help to get the water out the system. 

Andy


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## chasper

The interior looks similar to my Nuevo layout. My water heater is behind the gas fire you can get acess in the wardrobe by removing the bottom panel i think.


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