# Battery Master install & Split Charge Relay



## CrispBee (Aug 8, 2016)

Hi. I'm interested in installing the Battery Master to my 2009 Bessacarr E425 (Ducato 2.2 Multijet Cab), but I'm struggling to locate the split charge relay (SCR). I've seen many forums referring to earlier Bessacarrs with the SCR under a central black plastic box under the bonnet. There is a large plastic fuse box on the right hand side under the bonnet with a flip up panel to access a +ve engine battery connection for charging and it contains the main engine/cab fuses and possibly some small plug in relays. Is one of these the SCR? If so I'm concerned about how easy it will be to access the wires I need to install the Battery Master. I've looked inside near the under-benches around the area of the 12v PSU, leisure battery and leisure fuse panel and mains distribution boxes, but couldn't see the SCR.

The reason I'm pursuing this is I'm fed up of the cab battery discharging when not motoring! (Seems to be a feature of the Ducato???). All help really appreciated.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

CrispBee said:


> Hi. I'm interested in installing the Battery Master to my 2009 Bessacarr E425 (Ducato 2.2 Multijet Cab), but I'm struggling to locate the split charge relay (SCR). I've seen many forums referring to earlier Bessacarrs with the SCR under a central black plastic box under the bonnet. There is a large plastic fuse box on the right hand side under the bonnet with a flip up panel to access a +ve engine battery connection for charging and it contains the main engine/cab fuses and possibly some small plug in relays. Is one of these the SCR? If so I'm concerned about how easy it will be to access the wires I need to install the Battery Master. I've looked inside near the under-benches around the area of the 12v PSU, leisure battery and leisure fuse panel and mains distribution boxes, but couldn't see the SCR.
> 
> The reason I'm pursuing this is I'm fed up of the cab battery discharging when not motoring! (Seems to be a feature of the Ducato???). All help really appreciated.


What PSU is fitted in your motorhome, if it's an EC325 I can advise on connections there if it helps.

Terry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The SCR is located along with two fuses behind the air filter in a small black box under the scuttle, not easy to see until the air filter is removed then it becomes very clear and is easy to access.

When I installed a BM on our Kontiki I did it entirely in the cab area - very quick and easy to do as the LB is under the drivers seat and so attaching one lead there was quick, the other two needed extensions to the wires provided but the whole task took me less than 30 minutes and it is totally reliable.

Dave


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## CrispBee (Aug 8, 2016)

dghr272 said:


> What PSU is fitted in your motorhome, if it's an EC325 I can advise on connections there if it helps.
> 
> Terry


Thanks Terry.

I have the Nordelettronica NE143 PSU, so I guess that your wiring scheme wouldn't help, but the offer is appreciated ;o)

Chris B


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## CrispBee (Aug 8, 2016)

Penquin said:


> The SCR is located along with two fuses behind the air filter in a small black box under the scuttle, not easy to see until the air filter is removed then it becomes very clear and is easy to access.
> 
> When I installed a BM on our Kontiki I did it entirely in the cab area - very quick and easy to do as the LB is under the drivers seat and so attaching one lead there was quick, the other two needed extensions to the wires provided but the whole task took me less than 30 minutes and it is totally reliable.
> 
> Dave


Thanks Dave. Looked but still not seeing it. The attached shots show what I seen under the bonnet and to be honest I'm struggling. All help appreciated.

Kind Regards

Chris


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## talogon (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi Cris,
I never did find the scr on my motorhome so I ran a wire from the leisure battery and one from the tab battery. I fitted the battery master where I could see it near the leisure battery and I could tell by the green/red light that it was working ok.
This depends how far apart the batteries are and if you can find a route.
Brian


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

On our Kontiki the SCR and fuses are located in about the position shown on your picture, but they are hidden away underneath the bodywork so you may have to look under the metal work for the black box.








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Sorry if that does not help, they MAY have put it somewhere else but knowing Swift "one size fits none" is their basic policy. In the end I installed ours by the driver's knee and ran wires to the LB, and the vehicle battery etc. and the third (from memory) to the negative. It was easy and quick to do and means that the small green/red light is visible from a standing position beside the driver's seat.

Dave


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

I had a 2007 Swift Bolero a little while back. I never had to find the split charge relay but on mine, which also used the Nordelettronica control panel, there were a number of relays mounted in the internal fuse unit. This was where the 12v fuses were located but, if you remove the panel (assuming it's the same) the relays are mounted on the back of it. My fuse unit was mounted on the end of one of the side facing bench units but yours will be different, looking at the E425 layout.

I just had a look at the wiring diagram *here* and it looks like both the cab and vehicle batteries run to the fuse unit so the split charge relay could well be there too.

Good luck!


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

There are a few on the market (Battery Masters that is). Do you folks have a favourite? RoadPro seem to do one for 40 quid but there are others in the 60's.

ta

Graham :smile2:


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

GMJ said:


> There are a few on the market (Battery Masters that is). Do you folks have a favourite? RoadPro seem to do one for 40 quid but there are others in the 60's.
> 
> ta
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Hi Graham

The one linked to below is my personal favorite (CBE CSB2), i have three of them in use for various things for around 5 years now, faultless. up to 4 amp charge and a little over £20 with free delivery, doesn't get much better than that.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331907732825?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Hope this helps

Lee


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Can I ask: what happens if the MH is in storage without an EHU or enough light getting through to power the solar panel?

Graham :smile2:


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Until I fitted the kit Lee linked to, my engine battery lost charge even when I had the MH on ehu at the side off the house, unless I selected it to be charged on the panel above the door on my Arapaho.

I can only imagine if no ehu or solar power all batteries will eventually lose charge, the engine battery first given the draw from my alarm and tracker the hab batteries would last longer provided they are in good condition and have no draw from them.

Terry


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Do the Hab batteries feed the engine battery even when there is no incoming charge from the EHU and/or solar?

Graham :smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The LB is protected by the BM so that they will ONLY pass current on if the level of charge in the LB(s) allows it to i.e. only when they are being charged and the LB is nigh on full.

The VB can NEVER drain the LB via that route, neither will the VB ever pass power BACK to the LB.

Good piece of kit, we fitted the VanBitz version - easy and reliable, I THINK, but may not be correct, that VanBitz invented it, if not, my apologies to whoever did... that info cam from a MotorHomeFacts post from 2010.....

Talk of VanBitz Battery Master in 2010

it's reliability is without question IMO and fitting is dead easy;

Fitting Instructions from ODB

Dave


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Penquin said:


> The LB is protected by the BM so that they will ONLY pass current on if the level of charge in the LB(s) allows it to i.e. only when they are being charged and the LB is nigh on full.
> 
> The VB can NEVER drain the LB via that route, neither will the VB ever pass power BACK to the LB.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave

As long as that holds true for all the variants on the market I'll probably get one that Lee mentioned at that price and get it fitted next time I have some work done.

Cheers all - great thread (this gizmo will be a must when we go away for long stays in winter in the SE of Spain)

Graham :smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

This gizmo has meant that our MH has sat in an open barn for the last two winters when not in use and has received enough sun power via the 2 panels on top and the supplementary 7w briefcase one I position in the windscreen for it not to EVER need EHU charge......

OK we are in the S of France, but exactly the same happened in Devon where the MH was in a public car park near the top of the hill facing south - never needed EHU........

Fantastic IMO. Well worth the money and "only a rich man can afford to buy cheaply" as my late f-i-l used to say......

Dave


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Penquin said:


> The LB is protected by the BM so that they will ONLY pass current on if the level of charge in the LB(s) allows it to i.e. only when they are being charged and the LB is nigh on full.
> 
> The VB can NEVER drain the LB via that route...


Hi Dave
I've snipped your posts but do not believe i've changed any context at all.

You're actually mistaken; the BM monitors the difference between the two batteries (VB and LB) and charges the VB once a certain difference is reached, i understand this to be 0.5V. Therefore whenever the LB has a voltage that is 0.5v higher than the VB, for whatever reason, (VB draining or LB being charged); the BM trickle charges the VB battery at just over 1 amp, it will do this regardless of the voltage/health/state of charge of the LB. The idea being that the VB will have enough power to start the vehicle for a longer period of time, even if that sacrifices power from the LB.

I think the BM is a very good device.

The CSB2 device works differently; whenever the LB gets a charge it also charges the VB, instead of a small trickle charge it will charge at up to 4amps depending on the needs of the VB. The CSB2 will charge the VB whenever the LB voltage raises to at least 13.3v (or there about) and will continue to charge the VB (if required) unless the LB voltage drops to 12.6v (or there about), in which case it stops charging.

Although a little different i also think the CSB2 is a very good device, actually i prefer the way it works.

I think the common scenario for these devices is that the LBs are periodically charged (solar, EHU, etc) and when they are the VB is also charged, either because the difference in volts is over 0.5 [BM] or because the LB voltage has reached 13.3 [CSB2], the periodic charge is often enough that it means all batteries are maintained regardless of which is used so to many it wouldn't make a difference.

I prefer the fact that the CSB2 will charge at a far higher rate if required, i also like the fact that the CSB2 protects the LBs, i have a lot more money invested in my LBs than the VB, it just acts as a device to share any charging that takes place. I don't like the fact that if a BM was used without a charge being applied and the VB had a particularly quicker discharge, the BM would happily totally flatten the LB in order to try to maintain the VB, imagine if a cell failed in the VB.



Penquin said:


> Fantastic IMO. Well worth the money and "only a rich man can afford to buy cheaply" as my late f-i-l used to say......


Forgive me if i'm wrong Dave but the sentence above implies to me that you are suggesting the CSB2 is inferior because it's cheaper. i largely agree with your quote in that i believe you often 'get what you pay for' (not always of course) but i disagree that the CSB2 is inferior. i literally have three CSB2s in service which have been for at least 5 years, i have personal friends that use them (for years), and know of a large amount of forum users (not just MHF) that also use them (for years), but i'm unaware of anyone that has had an issue with them. if you installed a CSB2 yourself you would find it the same fit and forget experience that would last for many years to come as the BM.

I've never met Eddie but do know him from multiple forums and have a lot of respect for him and a majority of his posts, and i think you are right in that they either make the BM themselves or had it commissioned specifically to go along side the alarm system they do, i think that from Eddies point of view the price of the BM is reasonable, as in i don't think for a minute he is wanting to make unreasonable amounts of profit from the BM, i suspect the price is appropriate for his costs and/or overheads of the device. but CBE on the other hand are a very large Italian company that do a whole host of electrical items and can obviously put a similar device out there a lot cheaper, i'd love to support the local smaller business (if the BM worked like the CSB2) but couldn't justify it from my point of view.

Lee


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

ooops; i'm taking it off topic, apologies :thumbleft:


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Thanks Dave
> 
> As long as that holds true for all the variants on the market I'll probably get one that Lee mentioned at that price and get it fitted next time I have some work done.
> 
> ...


Hi Graham.

I'm guessing that you mostly use sites with EHU and/or have solar panels. If your MH has the Sargent EC500 unit combined with the EC480 control panel then (IMO) I'm not sure what advantage the CBE unit would be for you. On my 2013 Dakota with the EC500/EC480 combination there is a "smart charge" option where the mains charger (or the solar input) is automatically used to keep both the vehicle and habitation batteries charged. If there is no EHU or solar available then I'm not sure that any B2B would help.

Phil


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

philoaks said:


> Hi Graham.
> 
> I'm guessing that you mostly use sites with EHU and/or have solar panels. If your MH has the Sargent EC500 unit combined with the EC480 control panel then (IMO) I'm not sure what advantage the CBE unit would be for you. On my 2013 Dakota with the EC500/EC480 combination there is a "smart charge" option where the mains charger (or the solar input) is automatically used to keep both the vehicle and habitation batteries charged. If there is no EHU or solar available then I'm not sure that any B2B would help.
> 
> Phil


Thanks Phil

Point me in the right direction if you could: where will I look to see if I have this?

Graham :smile2:


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Thanks Phil
> 
> Point me in the right direction if you could: where will I look to see if I have this?
> 
> Graham :smile2:


This is the manual for the EC500/480 combination. There are photos of the two units which you could compare to yours. If they are the same then let me know and I'll try and explain how to check the settings. :smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

lgbzone said:


> Hi Dave
> I've snipped your posts but do not believe i've changed any context at all.
> 
> You're actually mistaken; the BM monitors the difference between the two batteries (VB and LB) and charges the VB once a certain difference is reached, i understand this to be 0.5V. Therefore whenever the LB has a voltage that is 0.5v higher than the VB, for whatever reason, (VB draining or LB being charged); the BM trickle charges the VB battery at just over 1 amp, it will do this regardless of the voltage/health/state of charge of the LB. The idea being that the VB will have enough power to start the vehicle for a longer period of time, even if that sacrifices power from the LB.
> ...


Please reread my post and then correct your incorrect point of view, I *NEVER MENTIONED the CSB2* - I have never used one, examined one or read much about them so have absolutely no view on them at all.

My belief about the way that the BM works comes from extensive reading of the VanBitz descriptions and discussion with Eddie several years ago when discussing the problems that I was trying to avoid.

I do not have the detailed knowledge about voltages but was lead to believe that the VB can NEVER be flattened by the LB or vice versa, so your simple voltage difference actions may well be incorrect. :frown2:

The CSB2 has been discussed on here before, your post prompted me to have a look as I knew (and know) nothing about them, I used this as a source to "educate me"; :wink2:

CSB2 discussion

the second comment on that link makes interesting reading IMO. Bt I know nothing about how it works so cannot comment as to whether it is better or worse, the OP was asking about Battery Masters - and that and that alone, is what I was responding to, from MY experience with the VanBitz BM.

The major benefit of the CSB2 seems to be the high charging rate possible - you quote 4a, but IMO that is unlikely to be needed since the biggest drain on the VB is starting the vehicle and that drain SHOULD be corrected within perhaps 30 to 45 minutes driving, so a 4a charging rate may not be required..... :serious:

I also said that I *believed* that they *designed* them, I have no knowledge about who actually makes them, but having seen their superb set up near Taunton on several visits, I have never seen any evidence that they, or their staff, are actually making them there. :nerd:

I don't think that I have IMPLIED any different and would NEVER react to implications which are not expressed - that is one of the causes of the recent problems on MHF where posts were interpreted by people trying to say that they IMPLIED something or other - and there is no evidence to support that. :frown2:

In the end the OP should go with what THEY want, I recommend the BM (as was originally asked about), you choose the CSB2 - so be it, I will lose no sleep over that. But I do take exception to people saying that I have implied something which I have not.......:frown2:

Dave


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

philoaks said:


> This is the manual for the EC500/480 combination. There are photos of the two units which you could compare to yours. If they are the same then let me know and I'll try and explain how to check the settings. :smile2:


That's the set up I have Phil - cheers

Good info as well: I've printed a copy to keep with the MH (just in case)

Whilst on: how easy is it to remove the EC500 to check connections? At the end of our last trip the small TV screen in the bulkhead up front picked up TV and gave the sound but it didn't show the pictures. Consequently they couldn't be shown on the drop down screen either. I'm thinking loose connection on this one given that the sound was there so I thought I'd check the connections but didn't want to start moving things first. (I am also happy if I am wrong on this so if anyone could advise....)

ta again

Graham


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Whilst on: how easy is it to remove the EC500 to check connections?


The EC500 panel is just held in place by 4 screws (visible at the ends of the panel). Once the screws are out the panel will pull out to reveal the spaghetti of wiring behind it!!! If possible find some way of supporting the weight of the panel once it's out so it isn't pulling on one of the many connections.

The first time I took my panel out I found that when the screws were refitted they wouldn't bite into the wooden frame. The original screws are very small so I just fitted slightly larger screws in their place.

Phil


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

philoaks said:


> If they are the same then let me know and *I'll try and explain how to check the settings*. :smile2:


I'd be obliged if you could do that Phil :smile2:

Graham :smile2:


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

Hi Graham,

If you toggle the screen on the control panel so that the Autotrail logo is displayed then press and hold the up arrow and down arrow together. After a few seconds the panel will beep and enter the advanced settings mode. You can then use the arrow up or arrow down button to scroll through the list of options.

The options you need to check are "Solar Charging" and "Charging Mode".

"Solar charging" determines where the solar output goes. The possible options are scrolled through using the left arrow button. From memory the options are Leisure Battery, Vehicle Battery or Smart. If Smart is selected then the solar output will be split between the 2 batteries. This split is based on both time and voltage. My understanding is that if the vehicle battery drops below 12.5v for a predetermined time then the solar will switch to charge the vehicle battery. The length of time it does that for is voltage and time related so could vary dependant on conditions. Selecting either of the individual batteries will send the solar charge to that battery alone. In the winter, when the solar input is very low, I sometimes switch it to Vehicle to ensure that is kept topped up.

"Charging Mode" operates just like Solar Charging but it determines where the output from the onboard 230v charger is directed. Options are the same as for Solar charging and can be altered in the same way.

Once you've checked (changed) the settings you need to scroll back through the various options to get to "Exit Advanced" where a press of the left arrow button will return you to the logo screen.

For these options to work the system needs to be left switched on. It can be turned off on the display panel without affecting function but if you use the "System Shutdown" button on the EC500 then the smart function will no longer operate. I spoke to someone in Sargent sometime back about this and I think they said that in "Shutdown" any solar input would be directed to the vehicle battery only. I'm not 100% on that though so don't rely on it :wink2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Direct from the horse's mouth.... I e-mailed Eddie VanBitz to ask about the relative merits of the BM re the CBS2 and this is his unedited reply to me, so in some ways I was incorrect, but at least we now have the information to allow comparisons to be made;

_Hi Dave

Thanks for the heads up and it is very kind of you.

To be perfectly honest I have virtually given up arguing the merits for and against a number of products, Battery Master being one as with so many "experts" and "keyboard warriors" around it is like teaching a pig to sing, it annoys the pig and is a waste of time!

The CBE unit is a good unit but will only start to charge the engine battery when the leisure battery is charged, so a higher charge rate is needed. Battery Master is a trickle charger designed to share the quiescent drain evitable on chassis that as designed as a delivery van intended to be used daily, between the two battery banks over the (typically) Winter less frequent use.

One has to argue why would you need to charge a engine battery at 4 amps per hour? where is all that energy going?

The "threshold" voltage for the Battery Master to function is 0.75 VDC and it will keep trying to support the engine battery until the leisure battery is discharged so at about 11 VDC After all it is better to discharge a leisure type battery than a acid lead engine battery

I started work many years ago for the Longlife Tyre and Battery Company actually making batteries in branch so have a lot of battery experience which is why I designed the Battery Master to support the engine battery

It is of course bullet proof, being totally potted so it is vibration and water proof, has internal automatic resetting fuses and will simply turn its self off if connected up the wrong way or there is a short

Made for us in the UK we've sold thousands of the things so when there is an argument about which is best, I tend to say that they are different! If that doesn't settle it I suggest that they test them both side by side, at the bottom of a bucket of water, after being clumped with a 10 lb hammer lol

Best regards

Eddie_

I hope that helps to inform the discussion, I also e-mailed Nuke at ODB to ask similar questions, but so far have had no reply.....

Dave


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## CrispBee (Aug 8, 2016)

Thanks Phil. Found the 12v fuse panel under the bench seat and under the fuse panel there's 3 nice ring terminals easily accessible for the 12v +ve supplies from the vehicle and leisure batts and the neg/ground. Looks a doddle now, so I'm off to order Lee's recommendation of the CB2 BM equiv'.

Many thanks to all for the help and especially Phil for pointing me to the E400 series spec and the 12v fuse panel ;0). Nice one.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

*I'm wanting to fit a device to charge both engine and leisure batteries from my solar panel and this link was posted in this recent thread - **http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3319077328...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT*

*Are they reasonably easy to fit or do they need a qualified electrician to do the fitting?*


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