# France Passion - British Passion?



## carol (May 9, 2005)

Well we know about this, but I have had a germ of an idea for starting a BRITISH PASSION do you think this would go down well..

Yes I know of CL and CS's but what has annoyed me was reading in a magazine dated Vol 1 2004 - called Retail Farmer.... that the C&CC had an article in there, titled: CARAVANS - a new cash crop?

Do you like to be thought of as a cash crop? I for one don't and what really riled me....

this little bit in their box about the Basics of setting up a Certified Site.

Pitch fees from £5-£15 average per night, more if near special event

Hey come on folks, what happened to the sites for £3 a night, if they are being told to charge FROM £5 to £15 no wonder our costs are going up....and we thought they were on our side....

So if my germ of an idea gets going off the ground, I shall let you all know. Would you all support it?

I would try to do it on the same basis as the french equivalent, the cost being to cover publishing the book of invitations and a web site - it is not intended to be profit-making....

Please let me know by completing the poll - or any suggestions you may have.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I'm all for passion, providing I can get the pills... Count me in.

p.s. so far we are streets ahead in the polls 8O


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

It may be helpful to those of us who are ignorant of these things, to explain briefly how the French system works.



> Do you like to be thought of as a cash crop? I for one don't ....


Sorry but I disagree with this.

Regarding charges, these are likely to be market driven - if other sites are charging £x a night for a certain level of facilities and they are full most of the time, then who is going to charge less than £x a night for the same in a similar location? Equally, if a major event is on nearby, people WILL be prepared to pay more if not then the charges would soon come down again.
Farmers need to make a living and have had major problems in recent years. I used to prepare farmers accounts and many have gone to the wall. If there is an opportunity for them to increase their income legitimately and they are prepared to take the risk of it failing - then good luck to them. There is nothing immoral about making a profit, otherwise why bother to run a business? "Profit" to a farmer is "income before tax" not excess gain on top of wages.

I think the problem arises when operators charge over the top for inferior facilities but again, people will vote with their feet (or their wheels) and eventually these operations will fail.

We are all different. I personally find it extraordinary that someone will pay £35,000 for a new van then get worked up about fuel economy or how far to fill the kettle, but that is me :wink: If people want to exercise economy in paying overnight charges, then a database of such places will clearly be attractive to them, and there is always wild camping! :lol:


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## 88787 (May 9, 2005)

You can count on us two Carol providing we would be accepted due to the size of George. We have only been refused once (over the phone) when we mentioned coach conversion - now when we book I just say 30ft motorhome and we havent had any problems when they see him.
Regards


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

carol said:


> Well we know about this, but I have had a germ of an idea for starting a BRITISH PASSION do you think this would go down well..
> 
> Yes I know of CL and CS's but what has annoyed me was reading in a magazine dated Vol 1 2004 - called Retail Farmer.... that the C&CC had an article in there, titled: CARAVANS - a new cash crop?


Carol

I have always understood that the basis of the CL and CS network is that the CC and the C&CC are able to authorise the use of these sites as camp sites and the owner doesn't need to go through the complicated planning procedure.
This is why the Clubs both try to crack down if the owners use them for more than 5 units.

How will you get round this with your scheme as the owners won't want the hassle of the planning applications to become a campsite in the eyes of the Local Authority.

I'm all for minimal facility stopovers for a reasonable fee but remember that many France Passion stopovers have no facilities although they will usually direct you to where they can be found and there is no charge. On that basis you are not comparing like with like.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Great idea carol and I admire you for that but i'm not sure how this idea would come into reality unless i'm reading it totally wrong, then i do apologise..

As you probably know the french do things differently to us, if you want this type of thing in UK then i think i'm correct in saying you have to have planning permission as it would be classed as a site, the only people exempted from all this is the major clubs, hence their cl'c and cs's.

I'd support it, but perhaps you could tell us how you're going to get round these first hurdles?

pete.


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## fjmike (May 10, 2005)

I'm all for this idea, after all the more choice the better it is for all of us. As for the planning side I am wondering if this would apply if the owner is not charging for the use of :?:


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

fjmike said:


> I'm all for this idea, after all the more choice the better it is for all of us. As for the planning side I am wondering if this would apply if the owner is not charging for the use of :?:


I am pretty sure that whether you charge or not would make no difference from a planning point of view.


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

OK OK

Perhaps I should explain more, I assumed (wrongly obviously) that most people knew about France Passion.

The way it works, and I hope this would work...is it is not a site

You become a member by signing up for the year and for that you would receive a book of invitations.....

This I believe is the way around the planning application idea.... they invite you, as a personal guest....

The owners sign up for a year and their 'contract' is a personal invitation to members (who MUST be fully self-sufficient, ie (i.e. water, sanitation, refuse disposal and beds etc.,) - they do not have to provide anything - not a thing, the invitation is for a MAXIMUM of 24 hours in one stay.

Motorhome Owners are admitted as guests after having accepted the functioning rules and having first made a written request. They then receive a person *GUEST CARD, *a vehicle windscreen *IDENTIFICATION STICKER, *and the current *Invitation Booklet.

The motorhome owner agrees to take advantage of these invitations exclusively during their period of validity (*say Easter to Easter or whichever start date that is used).*

Does that make it clearer - I was trying to run it on the same lines as the France Passion (www.france-passion.com) and would then hope to have a web site which would link with theirs, which would help with the marketing.

Does that help those that didn't know of the model - I really am trying to copy something that is already very successful - but as yet it is an idea and hopefully a way to acheive it all.

Carol

Do please log your support, one way or the other


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Hi Carol it is thought but I have a feeling it will still fall foul of the 1960 Act in that the site owners will be limited to offering pitching for up to three motorhomes for only 28 days in every 12 months. Once this is exceeded you need a licence.

Its a nice idea though and if this a way round the act I would use them.

peedee


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

now this is an excellent idea, and has my full backing

I believe it is going to be hard in the UK to get momentum behind the various stopover campaigns, however this may well be a superb alternative for those of us who like to use our motorhomes to their fullest.

The french scheme works perfectly and there is no reason why this could not.

Following in the wake of statements made by the CC etc and the increasing costs of CLs/CSs then this may have a good niche.

I have made this a sticky and encourage everyone to make their opinions known in the poll above


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

PeeDee - I know I haven't even got around to the legal aspects, are there any lawyers here?

BUT, suppose I am a farmer and invite you to spend a night at my home parked in your motorhome.

How could they stop you doing that....after all hopefully with lots of places to stop, like CL and CS's they don't get someone every night, or even one a week....

I agree it does need to be looked into

Carol


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Hi,
The MCC have a scheme called "Safe Knights" where members register.
to allow other members to stay overnight on their driveways/property free.
It sounds similar in principal??

George


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I think the best thing to do is for fifty of us to arrive at Helens Farm and then suck it and see with the authorites. She's bound to have a spare field. Furthermore, it sounds like a good place to get roast beef straight off the hoof.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi
Not sure if it is relevant...... but I think it is:

The Motorcaravanners Club, of which I am a member, has a scheme called Safe Knights where club members offer other club members an invitation to stay on their property for a night. No charge , no facilities and as far as I know no planning permission.

Maybe you should ask how they get past any regulations....it does sound as though the French Passion scheme and Carol's scheme are both conceived to do exactly the same as the Safe Knights scheme.

Mike

P.S. If any of you wish to join the MCC and want to know more just ask away....and no, before you suggest it.... I am not a commitee member or anything.. just a happy MCC camper :wink:


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## juliepoolie (May 9, 2005)

Great idea Carol :wink:


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

This could fall foul of planning regulations in some areas - and these do vary - where I lived in the UK there was a covenant to say you couldn't have a caravan or motorhome or boat at the front of the property, ie the drive, if it was a private house. I know that people often breach such a restriction but changes of vehicle or more than one could attract attention. This would not necessarily be a problem for a farm as CLs with up to five units seem to be exempt but local planning rules would need to be consulted.
Over here, I have looked at planning rules in one County which state that only ONE caravan, motorhome or boat may be kept on the premises at a residential property, and this may not be a vehicle used for commercial purposes. This was of interest to me when I was considering buying a second MH to hire out and keep both at home.
Also, has anyone any views or information on insurance implications?

Gill


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

hooray an off-site idea i can support. see i'm not anti-everything.

there must be a lot of farm shops that would like free overnight security watchers who would then probably buy from the shop as well.

i use farm shops a lot & will ask those in my area. will let you know what they say carol.

i have voted for the higher fees because it's roughly on a par with the big club fees and i think you would lose a lot of members if the cost increased early in the life of british passion. these things always cost more to set up & run than most people realise.


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

A great idea, Carol - full marks!

Just an idea... If British-Passion becomes a reality, why could it not gain the same status as CC and C&CC (and the M/C C as well, I believe) where they can authorise a site for up to 5 units. I'm not sure how this status is achieved, but I'm sure that you just have to be a responsible organisation. Others will no doubt enlighten us.

This deserves the backing of all of us in this 'community', and you've certainly got our support. Like smifee, I supported the higher-priced option in the belief that it will offer the best chance of the scheme being successful from the beginning. Better to have a small profit than 'go under' for lack of funding.

Well done, Carol.

Barry


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## kazbill (May 10, 2005)

Carol,

I think it is a great idea. If there is any way for us to increase the amount of places available to 'park up' for a night, I am all for it. As mentioned the MCC have their Safe Knights which already works.
It would take a lot of planning and organising so good luck.

Karen


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

A further thought. Perhaps the various supermarket chains could be roped in on a scheme such as this? Maybe not all supermarket sites would be suitable, and I'd guess that they'd perhaps like a receipt from them stuck in the window (???). 

Generally they have vast car parks, underused or empty at night, often have refuse disposal facilities and water points (but maybe not waste discharge points), so there may be a huge potential here.

There is precedent with the Walmarket chain in USA (who own Asda over here) with many of the Walmarket stores offering overnight facilities. There's even a book published in the US showing the location of all participating stores!

I also like smifee's idea of using Farm Shops.

Barry


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Gill, Barry Sue, Smiffee et all 

Again thanks for support, and I will try to find out more information as to the legality of it all - I still feel that this is not a site you are visiting, if you think of how the France Passion works, you buy a booklet of invitations, and the property owners sign a guest invitation, which is for a maximum of 24 hours 

No site, no commitments they INVITE you as their GUEST - and OK Gill, I am not in this instance thinking of Residential Properties - and those covenants to my knowledge are on fairly new (late 60's onward) residential developments where houses were closer together, often without any fences, hedges etc. 

This is aimed at our Farmers, Market Gardeners, Retail Farmers Market businesses, who in the main already sell at the door so to speak, but could be for any farmer who had space and would like to join. A Landlord could join and issue an invitation.... 

Yes a lot of work, exciting and daunting all in one. 

Keep your ideas and thoughts coming - plus those pitfalls you see - it will help clarify things for me as well 

Carol


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

A further thought, Carol, although not strictly in keeping with your ideas - how about "licensed premises" (pubs, clubs, etc.)?

Last November we arrived in the New Forest assuming the major forest sites would be open, and, of course, they weren't! Commercial sites nearby were all booked that night, so we found a pub, I had a quick word with the Manageress, and for the cost of a bottle of wine and a very pleasant meal (despite our well-stocked fridge!) we 'kipped' in the car park at the back of the pub. We were gone by 7.30 the following morning.

If this sort of thing were regularised by the issuing of "invitations" by the brewery, etc., it would mean more peace of mind when travelling.

Thanks again. Good luck.

Barry


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## 89564 (May 28, 2005)

A good idea farmer's in UK often have a small area of hard standing available.But even on CLs they never seem particularly welcoming.

But remember French Farmers etc do not invite you because they like you.
They invite you with the hope of selling some pate or a few bottles.

Some how half a hundred weight of King Edwards doesnt have the same cachet.


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Hi Moondog

I know what you mean - but I wonder how many do actually buy when they stop in France with France Passion ?

But there are an awful lot of 'farmers' around this area, North Devon, and Devon in general that do all sorts, from chilli farms, to jam....and gold medal winners at that.... 

But there again potatoes are very useful,...

Carol


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

hi carol

farm shop response 100% positive.

for 1 against 0

i can't eat more than 1 shop a day


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Our support guaranteed,..

There is nothing tastier than our own british local farm produce, be it fresh beef or lamb to cheese and other dairy produce, to mushrooms and fish!  

M&D


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## 89564 (May 28, 2005)

Carol

I think French people do purchase at France Passion stop overs.The French seem to have a greater understanding of Patrimoine (National Pride) and Terroir (Local Gastronomic taste).They are always willing to have a go at grotty old Goat's Crottins or to sip and slurp local brews.My favourite is to watch them eating quail..start with the head and pull the little legs out at the end. 
But UK invitees with their point and grunt attitude to other European languages whilst shopping feel overwhelmed and probably dont purchase.
Safer in Leclerc or Super U.

M&D

The organic beef in our local (N Essex) Butcher shop comes from ORKNEY
That just shows how farmer's in this Country have destroyed the food chain.I know they like to blame anybody else but themselves.
Once the profits were enormous.Now the moneys not there. :? :x 
Best be off .... gre: feel Helen on my tail.


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Hi Carol. There is a guy in Ireland name of Bill Lupton who is president of a motorhome club see http://www.motorcaravanclub.net/
He has arranged a network of pubs in Ireland who will allow overnighting for free ( plus a couple of Guiness no doubt )
I am sure he wouldn't mind you contacting him for info.
( I think he is on the road a lot so may be some delay in replying )

Cheers Sid


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## 90172 (May 1, 2005)

have read and digested and think this is a great idea.
you definitely have our support 
any help we can give too.
one thing I think I must point out
ARE WE NOT ALREADY A "CLUB"
we are a group of individuals who meet up [on line] on a regular basis.
does that not constitute a club?
could we not use that as a basis for a start. 
I think we might have as many members as the cc or the c&cc especially with their present attitude being discussed.


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

SidT said:


> Hi Carol. There is a guy in Ireland name of Bill Lupton who is president of a motorhome club see http://www.motorcaravanclub.net/
> He has arranged a network of pubs in Ireland who will allow overnighting for free ( plus a couple of Guiness no doubt )
> I am sure he wouldn't mind you contacting him for info.
> ( I think he is on the road a lot so may be some delay in replying )
> ...


HI Sid

I know Bill - have been in contact with him for a long time - and attended one of his National rallies in 2003. He does appear to be very busy at the moment, as his original web site was down and emails bounced, but I got his information again through another of the original list members of his site. It was a shame that his yahoo group seems to have died, except for messages over the months from me, saying 'Where are you all?'

;-)

Carol


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Pusser said:


> I think the best thing to do is for fifty of us to arrive at Helens Farm and then suck it and see with the authorites. She's bound to have a spare field. Furthermore, it sounds like a good place to get roast beef straight off the hoof.


What has been going on in my abscence :roll:

Oddly enough I have thought about this, it's not my farm unfortunately though and I am waiting for the right moment to suggest that we have a rally here, not feasible at the moment, but could be later on this year :wink: Will try my best


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Welcome back helen - missed you. Waiting to hear about your journey. :love7:


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Just an update to let you know what is happening.

I have written an article which I hope will be appearing in the Retail Farmer magazine which comes out at the end of the month or early May outlining the idea of British Passion and asking for their expression of interest.

I know France Passion started with something like 20 vineyard owners, so me thinks we need to start small and grow, and I have already got one pub landlord which is interested.

I have registered the name www.britishpassion.com and our dear leader Dave is going to put up some information on their for people to express their interest and as soon as we have some Guest Invitation Contracts organised I will send these out.

Three weeks ago I contacted the Organisation [email protected] who are behind registering campsites etc., (CC and CCC) and they haven't even bothered to reply. But I cannot see any reason that legally this is wrong, and so far no one has been able to point out if there is a reason.

So I am keeping going.

If you know of farmers, wine growers, pick your own people, farm shops etc., who may be interested, please get them to sign up for me. It will help us all at the end of the day.

Give Dave a couple of days to put the info on the site for me though.
www.britishpassion.com

Carol


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Thanks for that Carol, and for the hard work you've put in so far. I'll support this all I can.

Barry


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Carol,
Is it possible to publish the article here. It would be advantageous to take a copy along to prospective places who might be interested?

peedee


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

hi all,
just thought i should add here that i think Carols idea is so good that i have been helping behind the scenes from the onset and we have discussed things and we are going to officially form a partnership to build on this idea, i know there are many schemes being pushed for stopovers of some form or another, but i cant hand on heart see any of these coming to fruition in the near future, whereas this idea definately has legs 

So over the next few days i am getting a basic site up and running at www.britishpassion.com and adding a mailing newsletter for people to register their email address as a sign of interest and to get mailed when new events happen etc.

so keep checking that site for info, i will obviously also post the highlights on this site


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Pete where do you suggest I put it?

I also want to ask for some help but think that perhaps a separate heading might be better, although I will add it here now, for those reading this, but will also do a separate heading I think

The article in question, is being put up on www.britishpassion.com by Dave, who has very kindly decided to join me in this venture. We are off to register our company as soon as he returns, but

We need your help in order to make the site multi-national - after all we want to attrack visitors to this Island or that is the idea anyway.

Someone who is able to translate the article into:

German
French
Spanish
Portuguese
Dutch
Belgium ? Flemish?

If anyone out there is able to translate into any one of these languages I would really appreicate their help.

If they can, I can forward a copy of the article to them direct for translation.

email me at carol at carolweaver.co.uk or even carol at britishpassion.com

And thanks in advance for any help received.

Carol


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

carol said:


> Pete where do you suggest I put it?
> 
> I also want to ask for some help but think that perhaps a separate heading might be better, although I will add it here now, for those reading this, but will also do a separate heading I think
> 
> ...


Carol,
If it is going to be put on the web site that will do fine. All I want is to make a few copies to take along to those who I think may be interested. If they are interested and it then tells them what to do next then even better.

peedee


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

the article is now in our downloads section, direct link is here:-

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/downloads-file-70.html#dl


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

SIGN UP NOW!

This is just to let you know that Dave has added the facility for you to actually sign up to British Passion now, so if you feel in the future you would like to join as a member, please go to the link below and add your name, there are two sections, one for Landowners to sign up and another for the likes of the Motorhome Fraternity who hope to one day be a member and use the guest invitations.

here is the link: www.britishpassion.com

Thank you, we plan to keep you up to date there when we have further information.

Carol


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Thanks, Carol. I did sign up yesterday, but the site 'disappeared' after I'd done it, so I don't know if it worked. At the risk of signing up more than once, I'll do it again!

Barry


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Barry, I will ask Dave to check if you did get signed up ok.

Unfortunately, I received an email from France Passion, objecting to our use of their graphics, rightly, as we had not yet received permission from them. I have to telephone him on Monday and speak to him. So the disappearance was presumably when Dave removed the graphics.

I just hope that he speaks some English as I do not speak French.....

Carol


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

BarryandSue said:


> Thanks, Carol. I did sign up yesterday, but the site 'disappeared' after I'd done it, so I don't know if it worked. At the risk of signing up more than once, I'll do it again!
> 
> Barry


 ...and it happened to me too - thought I had already posted that on here but may have stuck it in the worng bit.


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Carol, but it looks as though it's done it OK now. 
(And I wondered why the logo had disappeared!)

Barry


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## 88883 (May 10, 2005)

We're signed up.
Great idea Carol, well done.
Have printed off the circular, will distribute to (suitable) local establishments.
Kind regards
chris an dee


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

I'm all for it Carol, Judy and I already belong to the French Passion scheme............... hope it comes about in the UK. Mind you having just come back from our first winter trip to Spain we are kinda hooked on overseas trips  Perhaps we could have the weather to go with the scheme like France :wink:


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