# Sweden/Finland - do we need a SOG?



## Uller (May 29, 2010)

Heading off soon to Sweden & Finland. The All the Aires book suggests that many waste facilities, particularly in Finland, are Earth Closets, so you need to either not use chemicals or fit a SOG.

Is this true? Have other people been able to find suitable facilities when in Scandanavia?


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## brandywine (Aug 28, 2007)

We were in Sweden & Norway 2 years ago. Campsites in Sweden that we visited had chemical disposal, some sites in northan Norway do not.

Cannot help with Finland but at least this will give it a bump.

Regards


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

in Sweden it is not a big issue: On many toilet blocks on Swedish lay-bys and service stations you find a door marked "Latrin". Behind this door you find facilities to empty your - transportable - toilet tank. (I have put together for my own use a TomTom POI file with all "Latrin" stations I know about in Sweden, if you want it you can have it.)

Finland is different, however: All in all I know not more than 3 dedicated dumping stations outside of camp sites. So here you depend on public loos, and these are mostly pit toilets.

So in Sweden you can get around without. But in Finland a SOG is essential. Unless you are always staying on regular camp sites.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

From dedicated experimentation on the subject we have come to the conclusion that:

In cool weather there is no need to put anything at all into the cassette. Providing all your seals and so on are in good order you will not get any unpleasant smells in the van.

In hot weather the same odourless effect can be achieved by putting a capful of biological laundry liquid in the cassette and a little water ( 1/2 litre). In a full cassette the dilution effect will be such that the micro-organisms active in a long-drop loo will not be affected. We go for a cheap laundry liquid - eg Tesco Value - as I do not believe that the additives in more expensive liquids have any bearing on what we do with it.

G


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I do not know where the OP got the information about not using 'chemicals'

Maybe there was a definition about what chemicals are not acceptable.

All matter, except elements, have a 'chemical composition' (e.g. water is 2 atoms of Hydrogen and one of Oxygen), so what is a 'chemical'? Including the excrement in the toilet - SOG or otherwise.

Unless it is specified, e.g. solvents, petrochemicals etc I doubt if there is a breach of the law.

Is Bio- detergent classified as a 'chemical'?

Maybe 'chemical' it is a bit like 'weeds' - it is one man's 'poison'.

Geoff


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Is Bio- detergent classified as a 'chemical'?
> 
> Geoff


Of course !

I suspect the rule relates to preservative chemicals, specifically formaldehyde.

The OP might well find that non-formaldehyde loo fluids are quite acceptable.

G


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> I do not know where the OP got the information about not using 'chemicals'
> 
> Geoff


According to their post: from the relevant "All the Aires..." book.

G


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## SteveandSue (Aug 25, 2008)

*Finland*

We have just returned from Finland where we spent 4 weeks.
We do not have a Sog fitted.
As Grizzly mentioned we use Bio Washing liquid.

We emptied in the Long Drop toilets with no problem

If you look at THE NORDIC CAMER GUIDE--www.n-m-c.net
ours is the 2009 guide the ABC fuel stations have free water and dumping facilities we did not have to use them and found obtaining water no problem.

If you have any further questions on Finland just send us a pm and we will be happy to answer them .
Hope you have a good trip and watch out for the MOZZIES !!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Grizzly said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > Is Bio- detergent classified as a 'chemical'?
> ...


Grizzly

Thanks for answer, but I think you would have to explain to me a bit more as I am not a chemist.

As I understand from your answer, 'Bio' contains formaldehyde.

Which, presumably in your definition under the laws of the countries enquired about by the OP, is a 'chemical' and is not acceptable.

But apart from that specific component which cannot be discharged how would the average citizen know what is OK?

Geoff


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Thanks for answer, but I think you would have to explain to me a bit more as I am not a chemist.
> 
> As I understand from your answer, 'Bio' contains formaldehyde.
> 
> ...


" Biological " washing powder contains enzymes. Enzymes are basically biological catalysts; they speed up a reaction. The enzymes in these washing powders are chosen to target and break down the organic stains - food and the like- on clothes. Once broken down the molecules of food separate from the cloth and can then be washed out with the rinse water.

These particular biological enzymes work in a fairly narrow range of temperature; high temperatures "denature" them: they change the molecule so it can't do it's job and target the different components of food that you've got on your clothes. This is why you must not wash your clothes in hot water or wash out your waste tank with hot water. The enzymes will not then work

Some washing powders etc contain very small amounts of formaldehyde which, I understand, is to prevent gungy build-up in the pipework and dispenser tray of the washing machine.

In higher concentrations, as any biologist will remember, formaldehyde ( plus water= formalin) was used to preserve biological specimens. It's a carcinogen and it is a wonder that those of us who used to regularly fish around for our rat or dogfish in a dustbin full of the stuff, still survive.

I imagine that formaldehyde - relatively high concentrations- is put into loo fluids to preserve the contents and prevent them smelling in the tank. Put down a long drop loo or into a septic tank, they will kill off the micro-organisms that are there to break down the waste and make it harmless. Not a good thing. There are more environmentally friendly chemicals that can do the same job in loo fluids and I assume that Finland etc will allow these.

I started to use biological washing liquid on the assumption that it would actually break down the organic components in the faeces and urine and so make the tank easier to empty and also limit smells. I think I was right and many others also seem to use it successfully.

As you so rightly said: anything is a chemical ! However, as I'm sure you're aware, it does have a common usage which is how the All the Aires book used the term.

G


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## Uller (May 29, 2010)

Thanks all for your replies - I thought I was going to get an email to notify me of each one but didn't - I thought the forum had gone unusually quiet!

We only use bio tabs, so sounds like we should be fine.


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