# tyre description, ie, M+S



## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

could any one please tell me what M+S means on the tyre description when looking at the tyre and size etc it follows with M+S . thank you bill.


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

It means Mud and Snow 

M+S

M+S (Mud and Snow) tyres are those with a tread pattern and sometimes compound specifically designed to perform well in poor road conditions. An M&S tyre will usually have a high negative void ratio in order to achieve this.

Some M+S tyres rely solely on the aggressive tread pattern to achieve this extra performance whilst others will have the addition of a specially designed rubber compound. In general terms this different compound is usually reserved for out and out winter tyres.

Pete


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

apxc15 said:


> It means Mud and Snow
> Pete


thank you pete so obvious now you have mentioned it.  (one of those doh moments ha ha )


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Marks & Sp............oh ok,i'll shut up !


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

AberdeenAngus said:


> Marks & Sp............oh ok,i'll shut up !


wife prefers this description


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*M+S*

Hello,

As the other poster suggested mud and snow. HOWEVER, as with any tyre M+S tyres vary in grip. As an example Michelin Agilis 51's are good in both mud and snow, along with everyday rain. Goodyear Cargo Vectors are so poor in my opinion they are dangerous.

For a better view of individual tyre brands and models visit this site for opinions.

Ttyre Tests

Trev.


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

thanks trev it was the new michelin agilis 2008 i was looking at.


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

I worked in the tyre trade for a number of years and tyre technology has always interested me.
How sad is that 8O 

Pete

If you are looking for good winter tyres ask your dealer about Nokian and in particular their Hakkapellita which is probably the best all weather tyre on the market, and it's studable.


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

apxc15 said:


> I worked in the tyre trade for a number of years and tyre technology has always interested me.
> How sad is that 8O
> 
> Pete


very fortunate for us though


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: M+S*



teemyob said:


> Hello,
> 
> As the other poster suggested mud and snow. HOWEVER, as with any tyre M+S tyres vary in grip. As an example Michelin Agilis 51's are good in both mud and snow, along with everyday rain. Goodyear Cargo Vectors are so poor in my opinion they are dangerous.
> 
> ...


Whenever it says M & S it means average in both.


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: M+S*

Trev.[/quote]

Whenever it says M & S it means average in both.[/quote]

Don't agree with that statement.
Mud and Snow have similar effects on tyre performance in that they both compact within the tread void, and thus reduce grip. 
However the ability of the tyre to self clean is the important feature, not just the higher negative void, some are better at it than others and this is down to tread design and compound.

Pete


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Wear*



apxc15 said:


> I worked in the tyre trade for a number of years and tyre technology has always interested me.
> How sad is that 8O
> 
> Pete
> ...


Again down to opinion, we tried a set of Nokian WR's despite the tyretest opinions that it wore worringly fast. Boy did they, 12,000 miles and they were down to the shoulder tread.

As for the Hakkapelita, maybe they are better.

Trev.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: M+S*



apxc15 said:


> Trev.


Whenever it says M & S it means average in both.[/quote]

Don't agree with that statement.
Mud and Snow have similar effects on tyre performance in that they both compact within the tread void, and thus reduce grip. 
However the ability of the tyre to self clean is the important feature, not just the higher negative void, some are better at it than others and this is down to tread design and compound.

Pete[/quote]

Try an M & S in Austria where I live for the 6 winter months of the year.

Not a patch on a proper snow/winter tyre and the M & S mark is not even legally accepted.

Try your M & S off road compared to a "Mud" tread and see what happens....


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Wear*



teemyob said:


> apxc15 said:
> 
> 
> > I worked in the tyre trade for a number of years and tyre technology has always interested me.
> ...


The Hakkapelita is an all weather, but built more for winter use, tyre and so a softer compound than the WR which is supposed to be a true all weather tyre.
I too would be dissapointed at just 12000 miles on the WR as they are supposed to be good for a lot more than that.
Have you had your wheel geometry checked ?
Pete


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Wear*



apxc15 said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > apxc15 said:
> ...


The Nokian WR is a Winter tyre

Trev


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

This is a quote from the Canadian Driver product review.


Nokian Tyres, the Finnish manufacturer of Hakkapeliitta winter tires, may have the answer: the WR "All-Weather Plus" tire. While that may sound like a fancy name for all-seasons, there's an important distinction: these tires bear the severe service emblem, and at the same time carry a pro rata treadwear warranty of 80,000 km. 

Pete

It's starting to look like, either I work for Nokian or I'm just a sad git , so I'm going to stop now.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Tired*

Im Tired,

Your not a sad git, just the marketing does not live up to the standards of the products.

Trev.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

buffallobill said:


> thanks trev it was the new michelin agilis 2008 i was looking at.


We had the new Mich Agilis (all 4) fitted earlier this year (the new version)and they are much much quiieter than the older Mich XC camping.
Hope this helps.
M & S is for mud and snow (light use only)


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

Grath said:


> buffallobill said:
> 
> 
> > thanks trev it was the new michelin agilis 2008 i was looking at.
> ...


thanks grath, going to have the new michelin agilis fitted , thanks peeps for your replys, much appreciated, cheers bill.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: M+S*



Wupert said:


> apxc15 said:
> 
> 
> > Trev.
> ...


Don't agree with that statement.
Mud and Snow have similar effects on tyre performance in that they both compact within the tread void, and thus reduce grip. 
However the ability of the tyre to self clean is the important feature, not just the higher negative void, some are better at it than others and this is down to tread design and compound.

Pete[/quote]

Try an M & S in Austria where I live for the 6 winter months of the year.

Not a patch on a proper snow/winter tyre and the* M & S mark is not even legally accepted.*
Try your M & S off road compared to a "Mud" tread and see what happens....[/quote]

Sorry I should have said the M&S mark is not acceptable on vehicles over3.5T


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: M+S*



Wupert said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > apxc15 said:
> ...


Try an M & S in Austria where I live for the 6 winter months of the year.

Not a patch on a proper snow/winter tyre and the* M & S mark is not even legally accepted.*
Try your M & S off road compared to a "Mud" tread and see what happens....[/quote]

Sorry I should have said the M&S mark is not acceptable on vehicles over3.5T[/quote]

Hi wupert. What do you mean not acceptable on vehicles over 3500kg?
Do you mean illegal or the M & S means nothing or what??
Please expand, thanks as I am thinking of upgrading my m/h to 3900kg


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: M+S*



Grath said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > Wupert said:
> ...


Sorry I should have said the M&S mark is not acceptable on vehicles over3.5T[/quote]

Hi wupert. What do you mean not acceptable on vehicles over 3500kg?
Do you mean illegal or the M & S means nothing or what??
Please expand, thanks as I am thinking of upgrading my m/h to 3900kg[/quote]

In Austria by law any vehicle over 3500 must have recognised winter tyres on between early Nov & mid March

The old M&S logo is not enough and there has to be a "Snowflake" symol or similar

There is good info on this link

http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/en/car-4x4-van/features/20070314172012.html

Out of interest we have found the Bridgestone winter tyres very good on our vehicles.

Hope tis helps

Wups


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: M+S*



Wupert said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Wupert said:
> ...


Hi wupert. What do you mean not acceptable on vehicles over 3500kg?
Do you mean illegal or the M & S means nothing or what??
Please expand, thanks as I am thinking of upgrading my m/h to 3900kg[/quote]

In Austria by law any vehicle over 3500 must have recognised winter tyres on between early Nov & mid March

The old M&S logo is not enough and there has to be a "Snowflake" symol or similar

There is good info on this link

http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/en/car-4x4-van/features/20070314172012.html

Out of interest we have found the Bridgestone winter tyres very good on our vehicles.

Hope tis helps

Thanks wupert,
I knew about proper snow tyres for the winter, I thought that you were meaning something else  
Thanks again 

Wups[/quote]


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: M+S*



Grath said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > Grath said:
> ...


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