# Avoid getting stuck in the mud



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Today I was given an idea to avoid getting stuck in the mud, if you have a branch of "SuperBuys" near, you can buy rubber ring mats for £1.99 each, by hinging them end to end with cable ties you can them fold them up for easy storage and just unfold should you need them and place under the wheels they are approx 400 x 600 x 16 mm

Thanks to my nephew for the idea, I bought 4, but I hope I (and you) will never have cause to use them. The same product can be viewed on the site below.

http://www.industrialtechnical.co.uk/ring.htm

Ken S.


----------



## TerryVan (May 13, 2005)

*Mats*

This is what I like about this community, the ideas that are so obvious and usefull.

The thin yellow strips I bought (cannot remember the make) are only good for looking good in the sun.

Terry


----------



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Ken wrote...



> Thanks to my nephew for the idea, I bought 4, but I hope I (and you) will never have cause to use them.


If youve got a front wheel drive ducato/boxer variant for a motorhome i suspect that somewhere along the line you definately 'will' have cause to use 'em Ken, i've got one and am now an old sweat at getting stuck. 3 times so far.

pete


----------



## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

Snap - last weekend with about 6 others. We got pulled off by 4x4

The "Tanny brigade" who recon to get out of anywhere got stuck and made a mess for everybody else at the entrance


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Yes i've got a ducato but I've been lucky so far, My nephew got stuck last week as well, thats how the discussion started


----------



## 88838 (May 9, 2005)

yeh but, isn't the reason that most front wheel drives get stuck down to the fact that they are 'overloaded' at the back. Not illegally so, but disproportionately so??? you know, cooker, fridge, bikes n stuff - which help to give rear wheelers traction -'trannies' - in normal conditions, but help them dig holes when it's really wet n claggy??

8)


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Lets face it, a motorhome is probable the worst kind of vehicle for venturing off road.
I got stuck in a CL recently after being assured by the owner that the ground was firm .. it was fine for cars but not a motorhome weighing almost 3.5 ton. Rear wheel drive or not, I was soon in mud up to the wheel rims.

We live and learn the hard or is it the soft way :? 

Jim


----------



## 89282 (May 18, 2005)

We just got back from a long weekend at a Dutch site, it rained non stop, just my good lady and my very active 6 year old daughter - it was a very, very, long weekend  . 

Having returned from a visit into Eindhoven my wife dropped my nipper and I off at the play area managed to get the Van bogged in while repositioning at the pitch  (thank god it was'nt me). 

We were scrabelling away in the rain and mud trying to get some traction to no avail, did the rocking bit, even tried to put put the new rubber mats under the front wheels, it just wasnt going to work. As the only Brit in a veld of Germans I was keenly aware that national pride was at stake and wanted to get the van out and relax with a glass of something frothy before they returned.

My wife suggested the sandpit, I replied that there was a time and a placed, perhaps when we had got the van out, she used a choice selection of words! 

So we raided the kiddies sand pit placed the sand behind and in front of driving wheels, I of course said it would never work - it did.

So from now on when we book a pitch in the off season the location of the nearest sand pit has been added to the selction criteria. :wink: 

Bill


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Last weekend I had got my new tunnel awning, and wanted to practice putting it up. I overcame extreme reluctance form my husband, and reversed onto some of our grass (you could not call it lawn by a long way but he is very possessive of the garden) to try it out.
When I had finished I tried to drive off again and could not get over the very tiny (1 inch) kerb. I eventually got out using a pair of strips bought for use in snow, but not before they had melted :!: He has very diplomatically not mentioned the tyre marks but I feel so guilty.
And to make it worse the awning didn't fit and had to go back :evil: #
This was not a good morning!
Andrea.


----------



## 88838 (May 9, 2005)

Bad Luck Andrea, hope yo get the awning sorted, 
as for the grassy bit - try telling him it's one bit less to cut ?

8)


----------



## 89335 (May 20, 2005)

sorry to hear about the grass :? 

We tried out our new awning at the weekend too but we went to a CC site to try ours out. Fortunately, we don't have to take our Dorema Highlander 2 back cos, with a few mods here and there, I can get it to fit.

What a pain though :roll:


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

A follow up to my original posting.

I spent the May Day holiday weekend in Wells Somerset meeting up with my boys (boys! all three are bigger than me now!) and their families, as we all know it chucked it down, so when I went onto the grassed site I took the precaution of using the aforementioned rubber ring mats, I had no trouble leaving on two occasions despite being on the lowest part of the site.

On leaving the site and reaching hard standing I walked back to inspect the pitch where the mats were, lots of water and mud had oozed up through and covered the mats completely but I still had very good traction. In hindsight I think I have made a wise purchase.

Ken S.


----------



## elbino (May 9, 2005)

I've joined the club in our recently purchased Cheyenne...last weekend in the New Forest on a CL. They assured me that the ground was firm in the centre buy I suspect they were thinking caravans. 3.5 tons of motorhome left some very deep ruts and the farmer had to get the tractor to tow us out immediately. The upside was that they then directed us to a great Forestry Commission site called Setthorns near Sway at which we an idyllic weekend.


----------



## elbino (May 9, 2005)

*ring mats*

Ken, your idea sounds great.... for reference as a beginner,do you park on the mats as you arrive or push them under the wheels as you find you are stuck? I ruined 2 perfectly good fabric mats last weekend as they just kept getting chucked out the other side as the wheels spun. Although having said that only one wheel was actually spinning into a rut...god knows what the other was doing.(Ducato)


----------



## 89411 (May 22, 2005)

*mud*

as a past tent camper i could never see the point in hardstanding

Now I do 

think i will rush out and buy some mats this week - but i would also like to know how to use them- please


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I bought four mats, park your vehicle with your drive wheels one on each mat, place the other two mats outside your M/H door to stop treading the mud into your pride and joy, when you are ready to drive away place the two mats from the doorway and place in front of the mats under the wheels, gently drive away without stopping until you get to a hard standing then walk back to the mats put them in a large plastic that you happen to have ready , smile smugly to yourself then drive away. Hose them off when you get home.

One thing though, these mats are not lightweight. Oh! I also drive a Ducato

Ken S.


----------



## 89411 (May 22, 2005)

Cheers ken


----------



## Beancounter (May 20, 2005)

Our Benimar is Ducato based and we use a bread tray base cut in half lengthways - one under each front wheel when we park. So far we've been lucky even if we are cheap :wink:


----------



## 89425 (May 23, 2005)

I've been thinking about getting a 12 volt winch and a ground anchor to use for recovery when ground mats have failed. You can also get them with little two stroke engines. You can either hook them on your tow hook or the towing eye on the front. By doubling up the cable run increases the pulling power, so no worries about being under rated. As save on seeking out people with suitable towing vehicles/tractors etc.
____________________________________________________
*Steve 
aka A very wild....wild camper*
.
Click here for my van website!
.









_I do like a bit of feed back to my posts please_
____________________________________________________


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I just had a little chuckle to myself, I could imagine the puzzled look on peoples faces seeing a Danforth anchor a length of ground chain and a cable and winch all neatly at ready on the front of your M/H.

Being sensible though I don't see why not, you wouldn't need a hefty one just enough to give a helping hand to the wheels.

Ken S.


----------



## 89425 (May 23, 2005)

The thing to remember is knowing when to stop and move on to another method as its quite easy to cause further problems by trying too hard. I've been out to recover Land Rovers and the like from muddy swamps where they have sunk so deep your not only trying to unstuck and move the vehicle, but also trying to shift several tons of mud at the same time. One the vehicle has 'floated' again its not so bad.
____________________________________________________
*Steve 
aka A very wild....wild camper*
.
Click here for my van website!
.









_I do like a bit of feed back to my posts please_
____________________________________________________


----------



## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Seen the rubber ring mats in Wilkinson's this morning and look like a good option. We've been stuck once and don't intend to again if at all possible, so will be buying some. At the moment we put the yellow things underneath but they are a bit flimsy and a lot more expensive. 

Thanks


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Used to use the same mats sucessfully when we had a Swift Kontiki. Seen them for £1 each in Poundland recently.


----------



## 92183 (May 1, 2005)

We have a set of rubber type snow chains which, touch wood, we have not yet needed. They take up little room, are quite light and can be laid out flat and used like tyre mats if required.
Whenever parking on grass, we always put plywood boards under each wheel (we use these for levelling the van too). This means we never settle into the ground and can always get moving in the morning. Even if the ground is wet the momentum keeps us going.


----------



## 89905 (May 1, 2005)

If you have the space buy some offroad waffles off ebay not cheap but if you park on them as you arrive on a grass site and you will get off.
I noticed a german couple with a set of aluminum sand ladders in there garage very expensive kit, but so is paying a farmer to recover you.
theres a million ways to solve a problem this is mine.
all the best
Twdogs


----------



## 92492 (May 1, 2005)

Hi

Have people ever seen Ray Mears on BBC2 in some sort of survival programme? Well his tip for bogged down vechicles is to release some air out of the tyres, this increases the "foot print" of the tyre and the grip, freeing the vechicle. Of course this might not work in all situations, but handy for emergencies provided the air can be replaced. In fact he demonstrated the technique in Australia. Where two tourists got bogged down sight seeing, they let out some air (but not enough) and were still trapped. They decided to "walk out", one died the other lived. The vehicle was later rescued by a ranger in minutes, by letting out more air from the tyres!

regards


----------



## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

I park with all 4 wheels on full-size bread trays if the ground is at all iffy.
It's surprising how far the rear wheels sink after a few days, even when the ground seems reasonably firm!
The front wheels need traction (Boxer FW Drive), but it helps if they don't have to drag the rear wheels out of a depression.


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

A couple of weekends back we were on a site with lots of caravans & 4 other motorcaravans. The caravanners had to leave their cars in the pub car park 'cos the ground was so wet.

The site owner made the last 2 motorhomes on stay on the road rather than go on to the grass. They were still there when I left but I suspect they had no problems getting away, although they will have had to reverse a long way.

There was a transit which the site owner wanted to go on to a hard standing but alas there was a stretch of grass between the roadway & the tarmac & it got stuck there. It had to be towed off next day. 

There was a Peugeot which had got on to the grass ok but couldn't get off despite use of the yellow strip things (quite funny watching them whizz out from under the wheels as they span) and had to be towed off.

I was just lucky I guess. Will look into getting some mats or something.


----------



## 90791 (May 1, 2005)

Carter,

The tip for bogged down vehicles to release some air out of the tyres - this is more oriented towards soft sand, of which Australia has quite a lot. The problem I've seen on most UK sites (from my visit last month) is grass and wetness (and soft ground) which give rise to a different problem:

(a) the wet grass has a low coefficient of friction,
(b) with a low coefficient of friction, any more than a small dash of throttle means that the wheels spin,
(c) with no sinking in of wheels but the smallest of slopes, the little bit of extra power needed to climb the slope is more than the available friction can withstand and the tyres spin, OR
(d) with the wheels sinking in, the little bit of extra power needed to climb out of the rut is more than the available friction can withstand and the tyres spin.
Every which way - the wheels spin. This is a coefficient of friction problem.

The bogged down vehicles in soft sand is a bearing capacity problem, and rather different in nature. The air pressure of the tyres causes shear forces greater than the soft sand can withstand and the tyres dig down into the sand. By reducing the tyre pressure, the contact area is increased and the shear decreased and the tyres don't dig in. There is grip available whatever the tyre pressure, but the full-pressure tyres are sinking in as they power forward.

[A hint for the intrepid sand off-roader. When lowering tyre pressures, 12 psi (about 90 kPa) is the first tyre pressure level to try. If that fails (and to the chorus of 'you really are dumb') then 5 psi is the ultra-emergency level. At those pressures, your maximum travel speed back to civilisation and the air pump is 60 kph and 30 kph respectively.]

The subtle difference between the two problems is the amount of contact area that the emergency aid provides. Putting the bread tray under the tyres for wet grass camping sites in the UK probably increases the contact area with the ground 5-10 fold - more than enough to compensate for the low friction of wet grass. Using long mats ensures that this happy state of affairs is maintained long enough to get some momentum up.

Letting the air out of the tyres in Australia for sand bulges out the tyre walls and probably increases the effective contact area with the ground 1.25-1.5 times - enough to drop the bearing pressure and stop digging in.

For the UK, there was an old system that Landrovers had, with a notched extension pulley to the wheelrim, that a rope could be wound around (rather like an outboard motor starting pulley) and then tied off to a distant tree or peg. This would (in the lowest of gears) wind up and pull the vehicle forward. Probably the Ducatos are too highly geared in first for this sort of 'poor-mans' winch.

Otherwise the baby pull-along or Tirfor
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Recovery_Tirfor1.htm


----------



## 92492 (May 1, 2005)

Hi

I did state "of course this might not work in all situations", but I do think that it may be something to consider in emergencies. While not been an expert in the matter I would have thought that by increasing the "tyre footprint" an advantage would be gained. Anyhow my motto is "steady as you go". I remember several decades ago when I was camping at Loch Ness (the campsite was on a hill!), nobody could drive up to their tents because of the wet grass. However by applying "steady as you go", it was no problem to me. I can still see the looks of amazement the other campers give me.

regards


----------



## 88810 (May 9, 2005)

Simple tip to avoid getting stuck.

We won't now go on any pitches that the owner has just relaid. Done it twice and got stuck both times. One owner said if the 4x4 wouldn't pull us off they would use the JCB 8O 

Jana


----------



## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

As overun stated (good post that!), on wet grass the problem is of the wheels sinking in on soft ground, and a lack of grip.
Mats. Bread Trays etc. spread the load and help prevent the van from sinking, but once off them you must keep going fast enough to stop sinking. This is hard enough when the ground is level, but the chance of getting out if heading uphill (even if only a slight incline) is much reduced.
Try if possible to head downhill - even if that is in reverse until you come to hard ground.

It would be a great help if there was a way of locking the Diff. so traction remained on both wheels instead of one wheel spinning while the other is stationary - unfortunately, not an option on the base vehicles used for M/Homes!


----------



## 89905 (May 1, 2005)

Hello all 
this forums amazing a hobby for all seasons.
I was under the impressition with now owning a motorhome my offroading days were over but that seems not to be.
we are lucky our old hymer S670 is fitted with a diff lock and with the waffles and a tirfor winch I hope not to get stuck.
the motorhome having being built on a mercedes 410D has a huge payload so theres no problem with weight .
An other way to get out of the mud is one of them inflatable jack bags blow it up and put some branchs under the wheels let the bag down you now have traction drive in low gear to firm ground .
the most cost effective method as all ready stated is the park on the base of four bread trays nice and light.
all the best 
Twodogs


----------



## bill (May 10, 2005)

*avoid getting stuck in mud.*

I've seen these bread trays mentioned several times in various places on this site, and a good idea to. However have you seen what's written on them (the ones I've seen anyway)???? Just a thought.

bill.


----------



## 90791 (May 1, 2005)

Well blow me down with a feather - the answer to the problem (not cheap but not silly or impossible). Thanks twodogs for triggering the old thoughtbox. I've driven several boring family car sedans equipped with limited slip diffs across muddy dam sites and/or a hundred kilometres across flooded Australian outback tracks, that no self respecting Sloane 4wd owner would ever venture across. So I went searching . . . .

[from the website - manufacture's words - etc etc]

*Fiat Ducato QDF4H1D £500.00*

http://www.quaife.co.uk/index2.htm
QUAIFE ATB DIFFERENTIALS

* Unique, QUAIFE patented, design prevents complete loss of drive that occurs with some conventional differentials when one wheel slips
* Used in all forms of motorsports
* Never locks, inherently safe
* Controlled power transmitted to all driving wheels
* Automatic in operation
* Eliminates harsh torque steer and understeering characteristics of other types of LSD
* Gear operated (No plates to wear or break)
* Benefits all year round, regardless of traction conditions
* Direct replacement for standard unit
* Minimal maintenance requirements
* Ideal where off road capability is useful i.e. Police, Ambulance, Public Utilities
* Retains normal axle lubrication
* Available for many different vehicles - new applications continuously being added

Sets of floating helical gear pinions mesh to provide normal speed differential action. In the event of wheel slip, torque bias is generated by the axial and radial thrusts of the pinions in the pockets.

The resultant friction force enables the driving road wheel and sun gear to transmit a greater proportion of the torque. This effect is progressive but at no stage does the differential lock hence the inherent safety the QUAIFE Automatic Torque Biasing differential.

The latest competition development of this differential uses pressure pads on the ends of the pinions with which we can vary the amount of slip according to driver preference.


----------

