# Bilbao or Santander???



## 93171 (May 1, 2005)

Hi, I am heading off on our European trip in four weeks time..... looking into ferries from Portsmouth to Bilbao/Santander.....all quite expenxive...anyone use a specific company..and any thoughts on both of thise routes???
Many thanks


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

My thoughts, there both hugely expensive and i would rather spend the money and time in France on route to Spain or Portugal


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Me too. a much more relaxed time to be had cruising down through France.a lot cheaper as well.if you are not a good sailor take the tunnel.

cabby


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## MalanCris (Apr 2, 2007)

Have used the Plymouth/Santander (and Portsmouth/Santander) route on many occasions, it is shorter than the Bilbao route but as said previously, both are expensive and unless I needed to get there quickly I also prefer the meander down through France.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Bilbao*

We have traveled the P & O Bilbao route several times when on a motorcycle.
Its a great intro to the holiday having time to chill out on the boat, sort of a mini cruise with reasonable food and entertainment.
Saw whales on our last trip. Bibao is good for South of France.
We have done this and also toured the Pecos, Costa Verde and the pilgrims route to Santiago.

Sadly we find the prices to high to justify taking the van by this route but if you have the money I would go for it.

Steve


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## 93171 (May 1, 2005)

Thanks for advice....having to take ferry as first leg of trip we need to be in Faro wihtin 10 days..rather than rush going through France etc..thought we could amble down nice and slowly.... think it works out to be around £340...was speaking to a friend who said they drove it adn worked out with ferry and petrol to nirthern spain, it worked out to be around £280??
Hope taht all makes sense!!


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Santander

newer boat, only 18 hours and you arrive in Spain relaxed for an onward drive. Also they take dogs in purpose built kennels

Bilbao the boat is old, it takes 36 hours so 2 nights trapped on board, no dogs

Logistically not much in it when you arrive for onward destination

You save by not being tired and you save tolls and fuel. The fuel alone saved by arriving northen spain at 20mpg is about 500 Euros (return) plus another 100 each way in tolls, minimum. So at €1.20 = £1.00 (after charges, commisions and cheat rates) thats £580 off the fare.

If you only have a fortnight it makes sense. You can arrive anywhere in Spain more relaxed not worn out by 800 miles driving, ditto returning.

I sometimes go overnight to St Malo and straight down west cost france. That also means a relaxed night and a good start. I can be in Barcelona by 21.00

If going for longer I do do short sea crossings

My typical journey is leave home 06.30, go to docks, boat 4 hours, drive to either Portsmouth for St Malo or Dover/Folkstone for short sea/tunnel. Cross to St malo overnight and arrive 08.00 or cross to France late evening and stop near coast overnight.

If doing Plymouth I set off at 18.00 get boat to England and then drive overnight to Plymouth, departure is normally mid day, so I can rest up before boarding

If you do go Brittany Fereries do join their owners abroad club. You will save more than it costs on your first trip.

So apart from high saeson weekends and using offers nad or owners club discount I reckon after looking at cost of fuel and tolls and as long as you have a basic cabin (still with loo and shower) the trip is free.

I have had best cabin and gone on peak wekends and then it has cost £1,000, so net £400, and worth every penny for not being shattered upon arrival.

Finally it is a nice way to start and finish the break

NB do check, last time I wwemt P&O there were 600 Hells Angels and ctheir bikes on way to a biking festival in Portugal. I am used to bikers and bike fesrtivals in the IOM but they saw it as a 36 hour non stop booze cruise and I was worried at the end about safety


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## Blueflag (May 16, 2007)

Plus points,
From cheshire I find it an easier drive to the ferry at plymouth than Dover.
Nice relaxing cruise.
Wake up in Spain.
Quicker if time is precious.
Not filling my van up with diesel once a day en route to Spain.

Minus points
only the one.....it's bloody expensive! (Motorhome and trailer in July £1500 return!!)
I have also done this trip on the motorbike and it is a lovely way to start the holiday.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

500 euro in fuel through france ?, no way. Tops 150 and 20 euro on tolls.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi
I'm with Dollaryen on this no way €500 to get there in fuel.


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## 109334 (Jan 20, 2008)

we are thinking of doing the santander trip in december this year we want to go for about 90 days so returning end of march anyone know what the drive down and back thru spain is likely to be and ferry crossing ( i know it can be a bit hit and miss ) we drove down in oct 2006 thru france and back in march 2007 by the time we had paid diesel and tolls it would not have been to much to go on said ferry . we want to go back down to mojacar and its just finding the best travelling times weather price etc ..cheers


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi there, 

We have travelled from Plymouth to Santander three times, and are doing so again on the 12th of April, we love the ferry and think of it as part of our holiday. 

We worked it out in comparison to Dover Calais and driving and yes, the Santander crossing is more expensive, but when you add up tolls, camping fees and fuel, there isn't much difference. 

We intend to travel through France on the way back, so we have the best of both worlds. 

Enjoy 

Cavaqueen


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## Blueflag (May 16, 2007)

Just did a few calculations and I would agree that the extra fuel driving through France (for me at any rate at 20 mpg) would be about 500 euros (2 way trip) never mind the tolls and campsite fees each way.
Out of peak season it is a no - brainer for me, I'm off to Portugal next year in April. Plymouth to Santander!


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## 97661 (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi ,

If you book your crossing through the Caravan Club, or Camping and Caravan Club you will find it cheaper than booking direct with the ferry companies.

Phyl


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Ferries*

Hi

Last time I sailed on the Pride of Bilbao (P&O) I sent my food back. I was offered a refund and given my next meal in the "upgraded restaurant", free of charge. Food was equally shocking in there.

Russell


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## 110279 (Feb 29, 2008)

I agree the Bilbao ferry is terrible, I have used both and the Santander ferry is much nicer, however, both trips were very rough and we have driven through France every since using Cherbourg/Poole crossing which is only 4.5 hours. The last time we used the Bilbao ferry it was so rough we never docked until 3pm and lost the whole day's travelling.
I can get through the 650 miles from Cherbourg to Spanish border with 1 overnight stay if you get the 7am ferry from Poole, stay around Nantes and down to Biarritz by the next night, motorway all the way 90 Euros in tolls and 390 Euros in fuel.


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## RogerAndHeather (Dec 23, 2007)

If there is even the slightest chance of you having to change your return dates, go via Calais. Much more flexibility and it only cost me an excess of £10.00 to return early last year.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

I can get through the 650 miles from Cherbourg to Spanish border with 1 overnight stay if you get the 7am ferry from Poole, stay around Nantes and down to Biarritz by the next night, motorway all the way 90 Euros in tolls and 390 Euros in fuel. 


Is that round trip ?. I don't know where you can spend 90 euro between Cherbourg and the spanish border on tolls.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

I based my calculation on the Dover straits short crossing and then to Toulouse

The resaon for that is that Toulouse to Barcelona is same distance as Santander to Barcelona, so that is the mileage and fuel and tolls I save

its 770 each way so 1540 miles and at 20 mpg thats 77 gallons which is 350 litres which at €1.30 to the litre is €454 .

I have Tag axle van over 3 metres high and get charged higher rate tolls. I can assure you Calais to Toulouse is over €100 each way. So about €700 saved by going on the boat and also 1500 miles and at least 25 hours driving at a steady 60 without stops

So what trips other people are doing for no tolls and 150 €uros fuel, I know not. I just tried to compare the cost of the distance saved.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

04 Celtic Rambler & 07 Ford F-150, Lariat, 5.4 Triton V8.

Just spotted what you drive, is that petrol ?. about 10 to the gallon if your lucky ?.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

I have Tag axle van over 3 metres high and get charged higher rate tolls. I can assure you Calais to Toulouse is over €100 each way.

Is that tolls ?. I disagree with your whole basis of calculation. I have never in ten trips to southern spain been to Toulouse or Barcelona.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Go look at the Title and look at the first post. Who ever mentioned Southern Spain.

I am saying why, when heading for Barcelona which is where I go to most, Plymouth Santander is sometimes, with discount and on the cheapest crossing off peak, no more expensive than the fuel and tolls in getting to somewhere comparable in distance from final destination and it saves all that driving

Off course it depends where you are going to and where you are coming from

NB via Michelin shows tolls of 76 Euros one way for a basic car Calais to Toulouse for my larger vehicle at the rate its about 50% more

I have just done a trial booking on Brittany Ferries out 7 May back 22 May with a cabin both ways for two passengers and a big motorhome ie over 7 metre and 3 metres high and after owners abroad discoint it was £578 which at about 1.25 €uros to £1 is €722.

I calculate my diesel and toll costs to be near €700. Its marginal, however I have not taken into account the money saved on the chunnel or boat to calais, so its cheaper to go Santander!

Just assuming you were going to Malaga then Calais to Bilbao is 750 miles, thats 1500 return and Bilbao or Santander to Malaga is about 600 miles

The cost of fuel/tolls is about the same as to Toulouse and the cost of the ferry likewise is neutral but you have saved 20 to 24 hours driving and 1500 miles on the clock.

That 1.500 miles can be important as many owners go for limited mileage insurance and if you travel 3 times per year as I tend to do 4500 saved miles is not to be sneezed at. (not that I am on a limited mileage scheme but you may understrand by way of illustration)


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## kezbea (Jan 5, 2008)

The caravan club is not cheaper tried to day Plymouth /Bilbal one way caravan club two adult 6 meter M/H and two dogs £350
Booking with Brttany Ferries £339. 

David


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

Kezbea.

Which ferry company go from Plymouth to Bilbao ?

To answer the original question I choose Bilbao. It is a great start to a new adventure especially for kids. True it can be rough but it all adds to the occasion ( yes we have done it in a Force 10 )



The ferry , for me , is much better now it is no smoking


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi billym. You will have seen I prefer Santander. I gave resaons, half the crossing time, better boat, dog facilities

What makes the Bilbao trip better for you?


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## 93171 (May 1, 2005)

IS the ferry crosing to Sant. really rough??? (the sea!!)


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

Better for us as we make an event of it and enjoy the two nights on board.

...........and yes the crossing can be REALLY rough and often is


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## 93171 (May 1, 2005)

Is really rough for you being thrown around.....rolling side to side...not being able to walk around etc etc


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Depends on the weather. The trip to either Bilbao or Santander is out into the Atlantic and across the Bay of Biscay. It can be very stormy, it can be blue skys and deck sunbathing.

The modern Brittany Ferries ship is a cruise liner with top deck pool, restuarants and shopping, it is built to take the weather but demand is not enough for a passenger vessel in December January and February, when they run a freight service only.

It clearly makes sense and that must be economical sense to truck drivers because its always full of trucks so they will have worked out time saved etc (EU working time and driving directives), money saved in fuel and tolls and many of then will be sailing Sunday when they cannot travel in France pain so they get ahead of themselves


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi we are going to work out the fuel costs as we have all the reciepts, our MH is quite good on fuel...............we crossed on the tunnel tea time Weds and spent the night in Calais, set off around 10.00 am ish Thurs and did a good day drive to a site in France that day, next day left around lunch time and we were in Northern Spain just below San Sebastian around 4-5pm.

Next day drove to Salamanca and 7 hours approx drive from there you are in the Algarve HTH I can't wait now to go back.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

i guess if you hate france then you can manipulate the figures to make it look like a good deal. Persaonally i love france and travelling trough there. If i wanted quick and cheap i would use Ryanair and rent an apartment. I prefer a short crossing, night in my own bed and a good meal in a rouitiers that stays still.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Now tyhere is an unjstified assumption. Never mentionede hating France. Certainly not manipulating the figures, just challenging the assumption and warning about height of season ferry costs on those routes

I'm just as likely to overnight from Portsmouth to Caen and drive down slowly and stop off at all sorts of places and coming back it isn't just via thecoastal motorway but Andorra and the Arriegios or Val d'Arran, Gsacony etc, off motorway.

Last trip it was Nantes, Ile d'Oleron, Bordeaux Pas de la Casa diown and Val d'Aran, Marsiac, Nantes and Bayeux on the way back

Depends on how long I've got and the purpose of the trip.

AS for the question of costs vs savings, all I can say is the figures are real, they are not manipulated and I'm gl;ad that they challenger your precoceptions, check yourself now and come to your own decision, don't dismiss out ofg hand. The other thing that comes to mind is horses and water and drink, I'm sure that applies to no one here!

I stress the price compoarison was the dates I said, large and high van, 2 berth cabin but after £145 discount for the club membership, which only costs £130 per year. I also stress that the fuel was calculated at 20mpg and €1.30 per litre and the tolls were last time actual updated by via Michelin for a tafg axle 3 metre high van which is a higher categoiry charge.

Others will pay less or more depending on route and vehicle.

All costs were return and were rounded to nearest £10.


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## 110279 (Feb 29, 2008)

DollarYen

My Ford F-150 has the FFV Triton engine (Flexible Fuel Vehicle) so as standard it can run on unleaded (95) or Ethanol (E15 to E85) or a mix of both. I have also had an LPG conversion installed. I have no descernable change in power output & MPG regardless of which fuel is being used.
Towing I get about 14mpg, solo 19mpg.
E85 is pretty rare (some Morrisons supermarket stations have it), some in France at about 0.66 Euros/litre.
Of course using LPG costs £0.42 to £0.55 per litre, 0.56 cents in Spain, 0.77 cents in France - so roughly half price as against unleaded.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

The resaon for that is that Toulouse to Barcelona is same distance as Santander to Barcelona, so that is the mileage and fuel and tolls I save 


Your just making it up as you go along, aren't you !.

According to RAC route planner Toulouse to Barcelona is 244 miles via Girona, less if you go via Andorra.. Santander to Barcelona is 436 miles. You have to compare eggs with eggs.


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