# Private health care & ownership of test results ?



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

I've recently had an arthroscopy on my knee. This was to address part of the problem I've been experiencing since Christmas. The other & more long term diagnosis was Patellar Tendinopathy brought on possibly by cycling. I'm not far down the road of recovery & physio but it's getting me nowhwere & the possibility exists that I may have to seek help elsewhere if this course of treatment fails or the diagnosis has been incorrect/incomplete.

During the diagnosis phase I had a several Xrays & an MRI taken at a private hospital. 

My question is this. Who owns the results & can I have them to take with me to another specialist ? 

NB Both the Xray & scan results were viewed on a computer monitor, so I assume were stored digitaly.

Thanks in advance, Dave.


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

*Xray ownership.*

Back in 1999 I had hip xrays done in a private hospital (paid for by insurance) and I was given copies. I was able to show them to my GP and later to the private specialist who gave me my new Birmingham metal hip joint. I can't remember where they went from there - I think I was presented with a new set showing the new metal bits (I always get special attention at airport checkins now :!:

My understanding was that the private xrays "belong" to the patient (who is paying for them) - but that is some time ago so the situation may have changed now.

Paul


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

You are entitled to copies at your expense

Data Protection

Access to Medical Reports legislation


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

I had exactly the same procedure done in 2001 at a private hospital. After my recovery, they contacted me, offering me the MRI scans (akin to x-ray film) as they didn't wish to store them long-term. You (or your insurer) have already paid for them and shouldn't be expected to pay again.

Colin


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

Hubby had to have a battery of medical tests done before current employment. They were all done at a private clinic and it was made clear that if you pay for them you own them. The clinic kept a copy but that is to safeguard them in case of any negligence claims.

Chris


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

There are interesting ownership and copyright questions. 

Whether you own will depend on what your contract says. In the NHS, just beacuse the government pay, does not necessarily mean that records belong to the government or the GP or the NHS Trust or Primary Health Care Trust etc.

If they belong to who pays, then privately that may be the insurer, that is absurd.

If you were privately treated in an NHS hospital they may well want to keep originals/copies cross referenced to your NHS notes

Private practitioners/clinics/hospitals may well need to keep proper records for an appropriate time, for all sorts of purposes

Clearly bulky items they may wish to hand over, but more and more is electronic. That gives rise to interesting problems as technology develops and systems change unless hard copied as systems become obsolete records, especially scans, may become inaccessible

Any treatment record is a co creation between the medical professionals and the patient. They belong in law to the professionals unless the contract says otherwise.

Because DP gives an absolute right to have copies of your records whenever they were created it also imposes an implied obligation to keep and not destroy, ie keep a copy or the original, as you can go back and ask at any time in the future


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## Bob45 (Jan 22, 2007)

They belong to you and if you went to another consultant you could have them sent to him/her.

I had an private MRI scan last year in a visiting caravan (you know what I mean) and had to sign my permission for them to be sent over to the main hospital for the doc to consider.

Also just visited a private heart consultant and he had the national health done scans and notes from a recent stent insertion.

Just ask.

Bob


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob45 said:


> They belong to you and if you went to another consultant you could have them sent to him/her.
> 
> I had an private MRI scan last year in a visiting caravan (you know what I mean) and had to sign my permission for them to be sent over to the main hospital for the doc to consider.
> 
> ...


You are misinterpreting the law. The first point shows that they belonged to the professional who scanned and you had to instruct/authorise their release/passing on for confidentiality grounds not ownership ones

Was your private heart consultant at the same hospital where you had previously been seen for NHS. In that case it was a convenience. If it was another hospital the original hospital would not have sent them, a. without your consent, and b. would only send a copy anyway.

Ownership of private records is no different to ownership of NHS ones

The answer to the question is complex but the simplest guideline is

The person or entity that provided the paper and the ink owns the written record but the patient owns the information and has rights of access

The person or entity who provided the medium on which a hard copy x-ray or scan or other record is produced in or on owns that but the patient owns the information, etc.

When we get to computers and electronically stored information it is mus ch more difficult, there are two schools of thought, it is owned by the patient, or by the owner of the computer/server etc this will usually be the treating health care professional, or their employer NHS or private, but servers may be remote and owned by third parties. This then becopmes a confidentiality nightmare. It needs legislation


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

This may help, 

Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated 
Activities) Regulations 2010
Cooperating with other providers 
Reg 24 
(1) The registered person must make suitable arrangements to protect the health, welfare 
and safety of service users in circumstances where responsibility for the care and treatment of 
service users is shared with, or transferred to, others, by means of— 
(a) so far as reasonably practicable, working in cooperation with others to ensure that 
appropriate care planning takes place; 
(b) subject to paragraph (2), the sharing of appropriate information in relation to— 
(i) the admission, discharge and transfer of service users, and 
(ii) the co-ordination of emergency procedures; and 
(c) supporting service users, or persons acting on their behalf, to obtain appropriate 
health and social care support. 
(2) Nothing in this regulation shall require or permit any disclosure or use of information 
which is prohibited by or under any enactment, or by court order. 

The above certainly applies if the organisation that carried out your procedure is based in England. Similar legislation etc applies to other parts of the UK


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Has nothing to do with ownership of medical records or test results or imaging or with confidentiality or sharing of those records

That is about something totally different, imposing a duty of care on providers of social care to properly look after those in their care.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

thieawin said:


> Has nothing to do with ownership of medical records or test results or imaging or with confidentiality or sharing of those records
> 
> That is about something totally different, imposing a duty of care on providers of social care to properly look after those in their care.


the Op said 'My question is this. Who owns the results & can I have them to take with me to another specialist ?'

The legislation relates to the second part of that question.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

no it doesn't beacuse it does not cover medical records, nor does it apply to doctors, medical clinics or hospitals.

it is about social care planning and co ordination for children in care or fostering, adults who are cared for in an "institution" or in the community or at home and the elderly likewise. 

It covers care records.

I have explained you can have a copy of your medical records on payment of the appropriate fee under Data Protection and the take them where you want.

Medical records cannot be shared around by doctors or medical records officers. They are not integrated. each hospital has their own. You have given implied consent within a GP practice or Hospital.

GP records for NHS do get transferred from practice to practice when you re register. Hospital records stay put.

My authority for the does not apply statement is the same regulations schedule 1 para 5 which exempts medical practitioners and mental health social workers and all sorts of other odd practitioners and bodies, eg slimming clinics?


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

thieawin said:


> no it doesn't beacuse it does not cover medical records, nor does it apply to doctors, medical clinics or hospitals.
> 
> it is about social care planning and co ordination for children in care or fostering, adults who are cared for in an "institution" or in the community or at home and the elderly likewise.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but your last paragraph refers to the definition of the regulated activity 'treatment of disease, disorder or injury' for registration and ongoing compliance. All hospitals either NHS or private would need to be registered for it to carry out the operation that was described or they would be operating illegally.
If Davesport were to seek help elsewhere the clinic that carried out his first treatment may be seen to be non-compliant with the regs if his condition became worse because they have withheld information requested by a new service provider. He should therefore be reassured that important information should 'follow' if need be. 
Hopefully, however, all will be well with him.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

OK cronkle here we go

Reg 24 applies to service providers

The definitions, above at the start of the regs, define service provider 

“service provider” means, in respect of a regulated activity, a person registered with the
Commission under Chapter 2 of Part 1 of the Act as a service provider in respect of
that activity;

Scedule 1 exempts the listed regulated activities which include medical treatment and records. Reg 24 does not allow the handing on of medical records, but the passing on of information which is not a medical record.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

thieawin said:


> OK cronkle here we go
> 
> Reg 24 applies to service providers
> 
> ...


The regulated activity should also be 'Surgical procedures'. Who needs to be registered is in schedule 1 (7).

It, like schedule 1<8> lists the type of activity that should be registered as well as those that don't have to be. With surgical it is basically procedure that require anesthetic.

Reg 24 does not mention documentation.

Interesting discussion for me but many others will now be finding it a bit boring so I will shut up. Main thing is that Davesport should have no need to worry.


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## Marrabone (Apr 8, 2010)

I would just like to address the problem with your knee not progressing. I had an arthroscopy on my knee and after a few months was very down as it seemed worse than before the op. I asked to see the surgeon and he gave me a shot of steroid into the knee. There was an instant improvement which continued over the next few weeks.

When l next saw him for a check up, he explained that sometimes the inflammation prevents the healing process. The injection of steroid calms things down and allows it to progress. He said it doesn't work for some though.

My knee has been fine since then (over a year now), not as good as new but heaps better.

Don't despair it can take up to 6 months after the op. I have no experience of the patella problems though.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

As a follow up & to close out the post.......

I called the hospital & asked them. They put me through to radiology who said, yeah, no problem, we do this all the time  

So I now have Xrays & MR scan results on a CD. Everything opens in Internet explorer.

Top job.

D.


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