# Asbestosis



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Chris has been diagnosed with asbestos on his lung. This happened when he had pneumonia shortly after his heart attack!

I have done a bit of googling and frightened myself so thought I would ask others for their experiences.


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

Patp, my Dad had methoselioma which is caused by exposure to asbestos. His condition was incurable.

I wouldn't want to frighten you more than google but I am more than happy to answer any questions you may have or offer support.

Feel free to contact me privately if you would prefer this 

Regards
Kay


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm sure there was a radio 4 prog about this recently, maybe it's still there on bbc iplayer?

I do hope your hubby is on the mend.
Jim.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks Kay.

I am looking for websites that offer good information really. 

Is there anything we can do to keep him healthy?

A chap in our village had it and he got compensation. Chris says that the firms he worked for when he was exposed are long gone and he was there such a short time that he can't remember who they were! He was a plumber and had to cut up asbestos (!) as part of the job. Apart from the pneumonia he has been fit and well for years. He lost two stones in weight during the bout of pneumonia but has stabilised his weight now.
He was a smoker but quit about fifteen years ago.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Mavis is the expert in this field but she doesn't come on MHF much now

You could PM her, she runs a club for fellow sufferers on Facebook I think

aldra


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

I believe that there is a new compensation pot administered by the government for cases where firms are no longer trading etc. It would be worth looking into.

This site gives info on who can claim http://www.asbestosis-compensation.co.uk/


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

aldra said:


> Mavis is the expert in this field but she doesn't come on MHF much now
> 
> You could PM her, she runs a club for fellow sufferers on Facebook I think
> 
> aldra


Mavis, mentioned above by Aldra is a Mesothelioma sufferer and on here she is member Locovan <<<

Mike


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I've PMd her Patp

So hopefully she will pop in for a look

Aldra


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Chris*

Hello Pat,

Sorry to hear of Chris's Illness.

Mavis

May be a good person to seek advice from?

How are you?

Regards,
Trev.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm physically well thank you Trev 

My mental health is something else 

Poor Chris has had three 999 admissions to hospital this year (heart attack, pericarditis and pneumonia).
Almost every thing that we own that could break has done so. 
The dog has Addisons disease (life threatening condition) which means that she should not be subjected to stress 8O Her insurance limit (£6,000) has been reached and she is only 3!

Other than that I am fine


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

First of all I hope Im allowed to put my web site on here as I tell it as it is http://onestopmesothelioma.co.uk/

Pat the thing is not to panic and remember I was given 3 mouths and here I am going onto 5 years may 2014 after 4 lines of Chemo.
If it is Asbestos Damage well that is what Ray has. Now if Chris hasnt got a Cancer gene then he will be safe as Ray is. I think everybody has damage we all have been in contact with Asbestos. On our ironing boards, round the pipes in our houses and all the DIY we do knocking old walls down.
Are they going to keep scanning to watch it. Have they said they see tumours. if so then that is different and he has Mesothelioma but they havent said Chris needs a Bi-Op or has fluid in the Lung Have They ????
I will leave it like that for now until you tell me more xx


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Jimblob44 said:


> I believe that there is a new compensation pot administered by the government for cases where firms are no longer trading etc. It would be worth looking into.
> 
> This site gives info on who can claim http://www.asbestosis-compensation.co.uk/


This has always been in place and the Government paid out if we couldnt trace our old firms This new Asbestos Bill (which I went to the House of Commons to ask for 100%and dated back to when the Bill was raised ) there is a reading on The Bill next Monday In the HCommons with amendments.

I hete talking about the compensation as We want a cure and more money in Research.There is no cure so Mesothelioma is Incurable.


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

> I hete talking about the compensation as We want a cure and more money in Research.There is no cure so Mesothelioma is Incurable.


A cure would be brilliant and I sincerely hope that one is found soon. I need regular check ups as I was exposed to asbestos when I was younger, so far, despite a bout of pneumonia and a *** habit that I finally kicked two years ago I am clear.
Wishing you all the luck and health you can take.
Jim.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank you so much for your reply Mavis.

As far as we know he just (!) has asbestos damage to his lung. He is not one to ask questions and I only found out when I sat in on one of his GP consultations. As he was very poorly with pneumonia when they told him he may not have absorbed any information.

He has an appointment in early January, for a follow up chest x-ray following his discharge after pneumonia. I will, hopefully, be able to ask questions then.

Your post gave me great comfort as I did not know about the cancer gene. I have been doing his family tree and, although his father died of a brain tumour, there does not seem to be too much cancer in the rest of his ancestors.

Is there any benefit from living in a dry environment? Chris has always wanted to move to Spain or Portugal and we have plans in place to try to winter there in our motorhome. I am happy to winter there but am not keen on a permanent move.

I have been reading your blog and notice that you spend a lot of time dusting! Is that because you are house proud or because it is better for your health?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Jimblob what sort of check ups do you go for? As far as I know if Chris is given the all clear from pneumonia he will be discharged with no follow ups. Do they wait for symptoms?


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

> Jimblob what sort of check ups do you go for? As far as I know if Chris is given the all clear from pneumonia he will be discharged with no follow ups. Do they wait for symptoms?


I get yearly xrays and sputum tests (basically coughing up phlegm into a container). This just since I had pneumonia and my DR in the hosp asked me if I had contact with asbestos, I told him that as a lad I worked in a museum and some exhibits were stored under the floor, when we got them out we were all covered in white dust from lagging around the underfloor heating pipes, this turned out to be asbestos and men in spacesuits came and wrapped the museum in plastic whilst removing the asbestos, we were never offered any protective masks or clothing whilst the work was carried out.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Jim yours is a common story so many of us have touched the Asbestos direct or even not knowing like school teachers pining pictures up on the wall of the school.

Pat ha ha!!! I do keep dusting as its the only thing Ray will let me do that and cook the dinner.
Life has been boring this year as I have just been through another Chemo and that has wrecked my nervous system I now walk with a stick. But Im alive. I have had another scan last week and results on the 13th But as the chemo hasnt worked this time they want to work out how fast the meso is growing. They dont know if there is another chemo for me either.
There isnt any benefit being in the warm only that it will do his lungs good on the pneumonia side as going out in the cold weather hurts and Ray finds that as well so always have a scarf wrapped around your faces in the cold wind.
Ray doesnt have yearly Xrays there is nothing they can do for Asbestos damage but the first sins of Mesothelioma is fluid in the lungs as much as 5 litres as I had you cant breath and they drain the fluid off and then test the fluid and that is the first they know. As I have said its not to say Chris will ever turn into that you just have to be aware it can turn xx Good luck for the future


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

My father was a bricklayer working for British Steel, his job was to line the blast furnaces with brown asbestos and then add another lining of bricks. These linings were continuously repaired and renewed.

This was in the mid to late 60s when the dangers of asbestos were well known however no protective clothing or equipment was offered to the workers.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I washed Rays clothes that is all I did.
I was sitting here thinking while every ones attention is on Asbestos there is what they call a second wave and that is DIY and Schools. There are now cases of 8 year olds and 18 and a lot of 40 year olds.
They realise we do DIY and disturb the Asbestos in houses built before 1980 .
The biggest thing is Artex ceilings. BLF is doing the 5 alive campaign again which I did last year




 my story is here

http://www.blf.org.uk/Page/Asbestos-awareness to show you it is allaround us so please take care if you think it is asbestos then call in the experts.

When you take your children to school ask if they have a Asbestos register as every School and every building have to know where there is asbestos and keep a record. 
Im not out to scare people if it isnt crumbling or being worked and if it is left undisturbed it is safe.


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

> When you take your children to school ask if they have a Asbestos register as every School and every building have to know where there is asbestos and keep a record.
> Im not out to scare people if it isnt crumbling or being worked and if it is left undisturbed it is safe.


For the last 20 years of my working life I was a school janitor and it was only within the last 5 years that we had an asbestos survey done and a subsequent "asbestos register". We had all the pinboards taken away, some ceiling tiles, floor tiles and even flanges on the boilers. Again when they were removing the ceilling tiles it was spacesuits and plastic tunnels for the workmen but not even a mask for me.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank you Mavis, Jimblob and others for sharing your knowledge.

I will keep a very close eye on Chris. We are selling the house to downsize and take life a bit easier. I am devastated (it is a cottage in 3 acres) to go but Chris finds it a worry to care for the cottage and land. I have had 32 years happy years here but now it is Chris's turn to choose where we live.

Might take a leaf out of your book Mavis and find a nice park home somewhere 

Keep fighting Mavis - you are an inspiration to us all!


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

pat

it may well turn out to be the best thing you ever do

3 acres is a lot to care for as you get older, even in good health

And sometimes we just need the push to make the change

There is so much more we can do once freed from the responsibilities we have come to accept as normal

go for positive change

Whilst you are still young  

aldra


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

Wot Aldra sed.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

The Mesothelioma Bill is on Television House of Commons channel NOW!!! Everything I have said is being discussed


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

patp said:


> Thank you Mavis, Jimblob and others for sharing your knowledge.
> 
> I will keep a very close eye on Chris. We are selling the house to downsize and take life a bit easier. I am devastated (it is a cottage in 3 acres) to go but Chris finds it a worry to care for the cottage and land. I have had 32 years happy years here but now it is Chris's turn to choose where we live.
> 
> ...


Do it you really are reading my blogs --I have written a book money goes to Mesothelioma Uk -. Please Pm me anytime xx


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

patp said:


> I'm physically well thank you Trev
> 
> My mental health is something else
> 
> ...


Chin Up!

If I were closer, I would bob over and fix something for you. Cant help with Chris or the hound mind.

Pass on my regards.

Trev


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Missed the reading of the Bill, Mavis. How did it go?


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

It will pass but there are some more Amendments to consider 
I have copied Tony Whitsons write up of the Bill as Written in 

Tony Whitston is Chair of the Asbestos Victims’ Support Groups Forum UK.

The Mesothelioma Bill – A Gift to Insurers1 by Tony Whitston

Asbestos victims and their representatives have welcomed the Mesothelioma Bill. After all, it is the first attempt to remedy a long-standing injustice. But, on close examination, it is a gift to insurers who could not indefinitely hide behind their own failures and evade liability for insurance they wrote for so many years. The day of reckoning has come, but at great cost to asbestos victims and with a great discount to insurers. It is in examining the detail of the payment scheme that the true cost to asbestos victims is found. This article sets out the main elements of the scheme and then discusses the Government’s rationale for its generosity to insurers.

Background

For decades, insurers wantonly destroyed or simply lost records of employers’ liability insurance – insurance which victims of very long latent asbestos diseases, such as mesothelioma, would later come to rely on long after the companies who exposed them to asbestos had ceased trading. Unmoved by the suffering and incalculable loss of life caused by asbestos, insurers persistently refused to accept responsibility for their failure to retain records and turned their backs on dying asbestos victims, who searched in vain for evidence of insurance which might provide some security for the families they would leave behind.

At last, in February 2010, the Labour Government consulted on measures to remedy this gross injustice with a recommendation to set up an Employers’ Liability Insurance Bureau (ELIB), similar to the Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB) which pays compensation in the event negligent drivers are uninsured or insurance cannot be traced. The consultation closed in May 2010 and responsibility for responding to the consultation fell to the Coalition Government Minister, Lord Freud. Two years later, on the 25 July 2012, Lord Freud announced his response.

The Mesothelioma Bill and the Diffuse Mesothelioma Payment Scheme

Instead of creating an ELIB, the Government has drafted the Mesothelioma Bill to set up a Diffuse Mesothelioma Payment Scheme (Payment Scheme), funded from a levy on active insurers, which will pay discounted average compensation based on age to mesothelioma sufferers who were diagnosed on or after 25 July 2012. The Bill commenced in the House of Lords where the discounted payment of 70% of average compensation was increased to 75%. The Bill has now commenced its passage through the House of Commons. Royal assent is expected to be given in April 2014 and payments are set to commence in summer 2014.

It is estimated that approximately 3,500 payments will be made by 2024 at a cost of £322 million. Although average compensation in 2012 was £154,000, due to the increasing age of claimants it is expected that average litigated settlements over the first ten years of the scheme will be £124,286. At 75% of this figure, the average scheme payment would be £93,214. However, benefits and lump sum payments would be deducted in full, at an average deduction of £20,480, reducing the average payment to £72,734.

The levy will be collected by the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) and treated as a hypothecated tax, i.e. public money. Dependants may claim under the scheme, but unlike claims in law, no payment will be made to the deceased’s estate if there are no dependants. However, the scheme applies common law rules for recovery of benefits. Peers challenged the Government’s very selective application of common law rules, but to no avail.

Fifty per cent of asbestos victims are excluded from the scheme, which is limited to mesothelioma sufferers only, even though it would only increase the cost by 20% to include all asbestos victims. Despite the fact that it took two years to respond to the consultation, the Government has refused to accept the modest request to set the eligibility date at the commencement of the consultation, 10 February 2010.

The scheme excludes claims for negligent environmental exposures and contaminated work clothes exposures, and claims from the self-employed. Turner & Newall (T&N) claimants, who are not protected by T&N insurance and are paid just 27% of tariff payments from T&N scheme funds, are also excluded.

The payment scheme is the result of two years’ negotiation with insurers held behind closed doors in which insurers drove a hard a bargain, reducing scheme benefits well below the limit of acceptability. With threats of court action and utter intransigence, insurers have bullied and faced down the Government, thereby gaining an overwhelming advantage.

The Government expects to receive £71 million in recovered benefits and lump sum payments in the period 2014 to 2024, of which £17 million is to be given as a gift to insurers to help them out. This is a gift; it is not to be paid back. The Government is also lending insurers £30 million to help to “smooth” the first four years when there will be a spike in claims due to claims coming forward from 25 July 2012. This money will be paid back in years six and seven.

The insurers have insisted that they will pass on levy costs to businesses if the levy exceeds 3% of the annual amount they receive from employers’ liability premiums, i.e. Gross Working Premium (GWP). They argue that anything over a 70% payment will exceed 3% GWP. The Government has disputed the insurers’ estimates and their figures show that over the initial 10 years of the scheme, 100% compensation could be paid without exceeding 3% GWP. Nevertheless, the Government has accepted the insurers’ estimates and the arbitrary 3% threshold and have pledged not to levy insurers above 3% GWP.

For the first four years of the scheme (2014-2018) insurers will have to meet the cost of claims, but the DWP will fund any cost in excess of 3% GWP. After the first four years, the DWP will have to estimate the annual cost of claims and set the levy accordingly. Any shortfall in the levy is the DWP’s responsibility and any surplus will be paid into the Government Consolidated Fund. If the estimated levy payment is above 3% GWP the DWP will pay the excess, not the insurers.

Discussion

The Government justifies its concessions to insurers saying the insurers paying the levy are not necessarily the ones who took the premiums paying for untraceable historical policies so they have to be fair to them. But insurers should take collective responsibility for their collective failure. If this is “rough justice” it is nothing compared to the injustice suffered by asbestos victims.

We should be clear about where responsibility lies. The Financial Services Authority (now the FCA) described the long-standing problem of untraced insurance as “… a situation where insurers/policyholders are inappropriately subsidised by claimants ….” According to the Mesothelioma Bill Impact Assessment an estimated 6,000 mesothelioma sufferers have lost approximately £800 million in compensation due to untraced insurance. That is the extent to which mesothelioma sufferers have subsidised insurers. If one includes other asbestos victims we find that asbestos victims have subsidised insurers to the tune of £1 billion. In the face of such financial loss, not to speak of the loss of life, does fairness lie in mesothelioma sufferers continuing to subsidise insurers by 25% and other asbestos victims subsidising them by 100%?

Notwithstanding the Government’s uncritical acceptance of the insurers’ 3% GWP threshold, there is no certainty whatsoever that insurers will not pass on the cost to businesses at any level of GWP. The Government should not give way to threats of this sort, and certainly should not use taxpayers’ money to subsidise insurers in the event of the levy exceeding the insurers’ convenient 3% threshold. We have come to a pretty pass when dying asbestos victims are called on to absorb insurers’ cost to protect business!

In the face of an obdurate, litigious and self-serving insurance industry, Lord Freud has negotiated a scheme at too great a cost to mesothelioma sufferers. Asbestos victims are entitled to 100% justice. We are asking everyone who is concerned about justice for asbestos victims to write to their MPs asking them to improve the Bill for mesothelioma sufferers and to give a commitment to include victims of other asbestos diseases in the scheme in the future.

November 22, 2013


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Can I copy that and send it to my MP Mavis? I will ask him for his response.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Sorry just seen this Pat yes please copy it and send xxx
The Bill didnt get through before Christmas with the amendments unless they get it through on the quiet --
Hope You had a good christmas and wish you all a happy new year :wink:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

patp said:


> Chris has been diagnosed with asbestos on his lung. This happened when he had pneumonia shortly after his heart attack!
> 
> I have done a bit of googling and frightened myself so thought I would ask others for their experiences.


Hello Pat. Iv'e only just seen your thread. 

Long time no see/hear.  Sorry to hear that your Chris has been diagnosed with Asbestos lung damage.  I am pleased though that you are in touch with Mavis, and can be more informed which hopefully will have a positive effect for both you and Chris.

Like Trev, I am just sorry that I'm not close enough to do anything to help out, at your gaff.

Good luck with everything. :thumbright:

Best regards,

Jock.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You are all so kind - thank you.

He is doing really well and we had a lovely Christmas. Will see what the x-ray shows in a week or so.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I cant let the opportunity pass of showing you my blog as I was on Sunday Politics SE and we have it recorded and its on Play back so here it is for Future people who find them selves with Mesothelioma I fought the Mesothelioma Bill. This is the legacy I will leave.

http://rayandmave.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/living-with-
mesothelioma-my-diary-our-appearance-on-sunday-politics-was-very-good-i-love-how-they-have-put-it-together/


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Just to keep you up to date 
This week I have really got Mesothelioma in the News and Im working with Lord Saatchi now as Im getting desperate for treatment 
http://rayandmave.wordpress.com/


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Great stuff Mavis!

You have a pm.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I was on BBC South last night and seem to be popping up everywhere.
Mesothelioma is really in the headlines so hopefully Asbestos dangers are being taken seriously. The figures though are going up and up. So if you have been in contact with Asbestos and you have a dry cough and breathlessness please just go for a check up


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