# when is a sealed battery not a sealed battery?



## stevegos (Jun 23, 2013)

Excuse my ignorance, but this is the first hab battery I have had to buy...

Took delivery of my new hab battery this morning. Its a Bosch S5 110ah. Its described as a sealed maintenance free battery and can be stored inside the hab area. So should not give off any gasses when under normal charge.

Upon opening the packaging there was a sticker on the top stating to remove the vent plugs before use. These are small plastic plugs on either side about 5mm in diameter. These may of course be on all batteries not just mine.

Does this mean the battery is not sealed or is this just some internal safety vent that will only vent when under pressure?

Or in reality is there no such thing as a sealed battery?

All help greatly appreciated.

Steve


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

There are generally two types of battery:

1) Wet batteries

A wet battery has free electrolyte inside which you can hear sloshing around, even if you cannot top it up or see the liquid. The battery can only be used in its normal upright orientation.

Delco and others have produced sealed wet batteries that have excess liquid in them to allow for loss of vapour over their lifetime. Alcad in the UK produced a range of sealed wet Nicads as well.

2) 'Dry' or valve regulated batteries.

A 'Dry' battery is one that has NO free electrolyte and can be operated at any angle or orientation. GEL, AGM all fall into this category, they are not able to be topped up and the vents are not user-openable.

So a sealed battery by definition could be either wet or dry, but the operating constraints define what they can do.

Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

The Bosch S5 is a flooded electrolyte type which can be tilted up to 55 degrees but it is a wet type in principal.

http://de.bosch-automotive.com/en/p...service_parts_1/batteries_4/s5_efb_1/s5_efb_1

Peter


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

A sealed battery can vent under fault conditions of battery and/or charger. Thus if stored in a hab area I would always buy a battery with channeling to vents, routed to the outside with washer tube. If drilling through floorpan or similar use a grommet or blob from a gluegun.

Dave


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## Snunkie (Mar 21, 2011)

My Bosch S5 110ah arrived yesterday, mine too had to have the plugs removed either side. I fitted them yesterday and just connected the breather pipe to one side. It comes with a little instruction manual stuck to the side of the battery. Says to connect at least one breather pipe. Have just left the other tab open. Connected breather pipes to the white tab side, left silver (+ side) open.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

For Steve

You probably need to look no further for answers as you have had it from two of the most knowledgeable professionals on MHF on this subject.




For DAB

Firstly thanks for still being around for your, always welcome, help.

Now, new Avatar is interesting :wink: Have you really swapped the Murvi for a Flair? If so which model/spec? Was it 'Thieawin's(MHF) old one ?

PM me answer if you prefer.

Geoff


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## stevegos (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone.

I've never heard of the breather pipe but it sounds sensible.

Are they common fit for all batteries? 

A quick google and ebay search does not show much but a few T and L shaped fitments similar to aquarium air pipe fittings.

I wonder if the aquarium stuff will fit?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Snunkie - I would have thought with one tube you leave the other vent plugged.

Geoff - Yes, I retired on my 58th birthday 4 months ago, so longer trips abroad beckon, plus a more leisurely look at our own fair isle.

Went to Dusseldorf with Alison last Sep and agreed the preferred van as an NB Flair CEBW. Hadn't intended to buy until next Spring but with NB doing a major anniversary discount, a facelifted Flair exterior (that I like less) at Dusseldorf next month promoting dealer discounts, a favourable euro exchange rate and a perfect spec model coming onto mobile-de (including 7.4 tonnes, full air suspension and hydraulic leveling) the temptation was too much so last week we did a day trip to Germany and secured with a deposit. Collect in a couple of weeks once I have UK VAT paid, etc.

Currently planning for Ducati 821 Monster in the garage, full-size electric bike for Ali, and eventually (when Brompton and Williams F1 can pull their finger out) a Brompton electric conversion for my Brompton.

Dave


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Yes, vent one side only and leave the other side sealed.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

DABurleigh said:


> Snunkie - I would have thought with one tube you leave the other vent plugged.
> 
> Geoff - Yes, I retired on my 58th birthday 4 months ago, so longer trips abroad beckon, plus a more leisurely look at our own fair isle.
> 
> ...


Dave

Well done. The model and spec is just the sort of thing I would choose if/when we can go long-term/full-time. I am quite happy with the Arto at the moment but would like to go for a truck chassis for more payload later, so that we could like you have a bike/scooter as well as our push bikes and the levelling system. At the moment we are running just 100kg under max weight with full tanks, which I like for wildcamping, so not much to spare for the extras.

Did you look at equivalent models from other converters, e.g. Concorde etc.? So far I have only done paper research as there are not many(any?) 'A' Class in Poland and certainly not in that category. Perhaps we could exchange PMs on any research/comments you have on others available.

I hope you have a great time with the Flair and your extended touring.

Best wishes

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Just a quick note on battery breathers.

Industrially they are rarely used, batteries are in industrial environments and venting is rare with decent charging equipment.

Wet batteries with gas recombination vents are also quite widely used, these recombine any vented product back into water which is returned to the battery.










These are on 6V 200ah wet batteries, and had been in use for two weeks following installation.










These are the same battery but larger capacity recombination fillers.

As far as motorohome use goes, I wouldn't worry too much about venting unless you have something particularly delicate near to the vents.

In normal use, you wouldn't see any significant venting of gases or vapour from the vents.

Peter


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Geoff, 

From online research I narrowed it down to NB Flair, Concorde Charisma/Carver and Phoenix Midi-Liner; maybe one of the Morelo layouts, too. Hymer has gone all cold on the S-class replacement. Was going to be at Dusseldorf last year, then this year, and not a whiff. Not even Hymer German main dealers have a scooby about chassis or anything. So if anything does happen that's a 4-year gap. I'm not sure the sense as NB and Hymer are all part of the same Group.

I would only give you one piece of advice - visit Dusseldorf to compare them side-by-side in the one large hall dedicated to these sort of vehicles. It made it a pretty simple no-brainer for us. 

Concorde prices have rocketed in the last few years, are physically huge outside for the space inside that seems no better than NB, now have incredibly dark interiors and don't seem as well thought-through as the NB IMHO. Just a couple of examples - you can swing a cat in the NB dressing area between the wardrobe, loo, shower and washbasin, but are tiptoeing sideways down a narrow corridor in the Concorde for fear of scratching the wood. Both have a loo door that seals front from back, but only in the NB do you also have a sliding door to the rear bedroom, so if you have guests/children/grandchildren in the drop-down bed, privacy in the night/morning isn't a problem for either couple.

I think the Concorde Credo is getting an Iveco chassis this year. That might offer a better bang for your buck and better dimensions - don't know.

Phoenix used to have a build quality premium, but I don't see it now, and the interior just didn't appeal.

HTH,

Dave


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"As far as motorohome use goes, I wouldn't worry too much about venting unless you have something particularly delicate near to the vents. "

That made me chuckle, Peter. In the Murvi I reckon my goolies were about 3 inches away from 200Ah sealed, switching relays and oodles of 12V connections. My vent tubes comforted me 

I would say the most likely dangerous situation is a battery charging on EHU in a confined space, one cell developing a short (whisker) through ageing or not de-sulphating. Many chargers then will pump many amps through the resultant 10V battery, leading to excess gassing. Potentially, having two batteries in parallel, one good and one bad, exacerbates the situation. Probably the safest scenario is when the van is occupied. If you have a day/evening out, or it is on charge over winter parked up next to your house, then personally I'd like to have a vent tube 

Dave


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

listerdiesel said:


> ....................................................
> 
> As far as motorohome use goes, I wouldn't worry too much about venting unless you have something particularly delicate near to the vents.
> 
> ...


I was working on fitting solar a couple of weeks ago and in the process moved the batteries (2 X Banner Energy Bull 115ah new last September) about in their boxes, there's an half inch or so to spare around them.

Yesterday while doing a bit of tidying up in the garage (of the van) I heard a very fain sound of escaping air, like a slow puncture on a push bike. On investigation it appeared to be coming from one of the batteries, as I moved the battery a little there was a small release of pressure as the vent pipe had been squeezed closed when moving the battery around previously.

I had been away in the intervening period off EHU and the charging had been taken care of by a B2B when on the move and 200 watts of solar.


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## stevegos (Jun 23, 2013)

After advice on here, I have fitted the new Bosch battery in one of the under seat lockers (and turned the old under floor battery box into a wine bottle holder!)

I bought some 6mm aquarium airline and joiners (costing about £2) and made up a vent pipe to the outside.

The 6mm pipe fitted perfectly.

It was cheap and easy to fit and I feel safer with it there!


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi Stevegos, I too have just replaced my hab battery when the old one would not hold a charge and it was vented to the floor. The new one although sold as sealed had a 6mm hole either end plugged with bluetak for transport. I have teed them up to the floor vent, this may have not been necessary but didn't feel like being a martyr for the cause if i was wrong and had not done it.

Barry


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