# confused about the weight



## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

where do i start !! i know this has been talked about a hundred times or more and i have tried to look at the old posts,but i can not find a definitive answer.Why does it have to be so complicated,considering overloading is such a serious offence i think it should be easier to understand.
We loaded up yesterday for the weekend trip and called at our local weighbridge(not a v.o.s.a one) . According to the operator we was slightly overloaded overall,underweight on the front axle,overweight on the rear.(i had the fresh and grey tanks both full to give us the worst possible scenario)
Sat in the van now trying to make sense of it all !!! 
this is how our plate on the step reads...
3490kg (we were 3520)
5200kg
1. 1750kg (we were 1400)
2. 1900kg (we were 2160)

not sure what the 3490 and the 5200 relate to,according to the manual the 3490 is max gross weight of vehicle with trailer and 5200 is max gross weight of vehicle

can anyone elaborate on this please .. :?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weights*

Hi

When you went on the weighbridge, were you both in the van?

Where are the fresh and grey tanks located and what are their capacities?

3490 is the max weight of your van fully loaded - you, water, cats, dogs, buckets etc.

5200 is the max train weight - ie weight of your van and trailer cannot exceed this amount.

R


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

*weights*

hi russell,(we are the people with the weim talking to you at the beverley rally...dont know if u realise ) everyone was in the van and the tanks are just forward of the rear axle,regarding the weights on the plates 3490 and 5200 it says in the manual opposite to what your saying,the smaller number is the max weight when towing a trailer and larger number is when not towing a trailer,i understand your thinking,my thoughts were the same,hence the confusion :? 
Steve


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weights*

Hi

Right then, said the school teacher....

Are you able to take a good quality photo of the actual weight plate on the motorhome? This will be either under the bonnet or, just inside the door. Small metal square with info stamped on.

If you can post the pic, I think that is a good place to start.

It is possible that there is a mis print in the manual? How about a scan of the figures?

Russell

Your weimar is an absolute stunner. Jenny is still with me. She is laid on the bed looking out of the window.


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are some photos of the plate with weight limits and Dethleffs manual telling you what they mean. :?


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Hi if you take the 3490 from the 5200 = 1710 that means means you can tow a load upto 1710 kgs say a car on a trailer.

The 1750 is the max weight allowable on the front axle.
The 1900 is the max weight on the rear axle.

As Russel said the 3490 is the max weight fully loaded.

So looking at the weighbridge figures you was over weight on the rear axle by 2160kgs.
If it was me start by dumping the waste tank you should never be in a position where by you would have to drive with a full tank very far.

Roy


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

takeaflight said:


> So looking at the weighbridge figures you was over weight on the rear axle by 2160kgs.
> Roy


Over by 2160kg ???? surely you meant 260kg. (2160-1900)


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, Would everyone interested in this post please look at the first photo i attached (click on it to make larger) and read item E, if you correspond the weight on the plate to this it comes out at 5200kg surely this is my max weight ...

With what we had on board yesterday, even taking in to account both tanks were full, i dont think we should have been anywhere near overloaded. We wasnt carrying bikes, generator, nothing excessive and was only going away for 2 nights !! What about these people who carry a motorbike on the back? I'm convinced our max weight is 5200kg it says it in black and white in the manual.

Steve


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*weight*

looks like you have 2 problems . rear Axle overload and gross vehicle weight overload, best not to fill fresh water tank and not travel with any grey water in tank , but you would not do this anyway, 1 ltr water =1kg this sould bring you within your limits, remember if you got pulled for a weight check , you could be made to park the untill you comply, they wont let you drive away if you are overloaded, and they do stop M/h's


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## 89682 (Jun 4, 2005)

As other have said!!

The 5200kg is the Gross train weight ie. your vehicle and any permitted trailer.

The 1750kg is the max weight - front axle

The 1900kg is the maximum permitted weight on the rear axle.

The 3490kg is the maximum permitted weight (gross) of your vehicle.

You can be overweight on either axle but still within permitted weight of your vehicle! Section "D" on your handbook pics obviously does not refer to the 5200kg figure

For further info

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022708
Regards

Herman


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

*weight*

im taking my max weight as being 5200kg ,thats what it says in the book,that will do for me


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: weight*



stecaz said:


> im taking my max weight as being 5200kg ,thats what it says in the book,that will do for me


Good luck then with whatever law enforcement official you make that point to at the roadside.

Dougie.


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

*mh's*

begining to wish i hadn't gone to the weighbridge now !!


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

*Re: weight*



stecaz said:


> im taking my max weight as being 5200kg ,thats what it says in the book,that will do for me


That won't make it right if you get pulled for being overweight though will it?

If you think about it logically your maximum axle weights will add up to your max weight as near as damn it. The sum of the 2 axle weights are usually a bit higher than your permitted total gross weight - in your case adding up to 3,650kg as against 3,490kg. The maximum train weight then allows extra load to be towed. It cannot possibly be less than your gross vehicle weight despite what the manual says.

JohnW


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

*Weight*

No, I think you're wrong and Herman is right, whatever you think the book says.

Your weight with a trailer cannot be less than your maximum weight, therefore 3490kg is the Gross Weight, and the 5200kg the Gross Train weight, i.e.Vehicle & Trailer.

I guess that your vehicle is based on a 3500kg chassis, which would be the norm for a Fiat based Dethleffs. I know of very few average motorhomes that would have a GVW of 5 tonnes or more. The Hymer 820 might have, but not yours.

Therefore, the only issue you have to address is getting the axle weights correct, which you can probably sort by emptying the grey waste tank. Bear in mind that unless you are carrying a separate water carrier, or topping up your water tank without emptying the waste, you're unlikely to have both full at the same time.

Don't panic !

Smick


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: mh's*



stecaz said:


> begining to wish i hadn't gone to the weighbridge now !!


Why? You asked a legitimate question and received correct answers. If you're not happy with the answers and have therefore decided to rely on your own interpretation, you've no-one to blame but yourself as & when you're pulled for being overweight.

On the positive side, that's called taking responsibility for your own decisions.

Dougie.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Dougie, 


this may be a trade secret you'd rather not share, but, out of curiosity, what would make you' for instance, give a motorhome a tug for being overweight.

Apart from the obviously, bottomed out suspension and 1/2 a mile a fortnight up a slope, and towing a trailer the size of the queen mary, (things slightly exaggerated for dramatic effect).


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Sorry, yes I did mean 260 kgs.

Just another point, if you don't like the answers IMHO don't ask the qusetion :roll:

However my first Hymer we drove for two years totaly over it's train weight because I didn't know it only had a towing limit of 750Kgs,  
At times I was towing upto 1500kgs. Sadly because we loved that van, we still sold it for something that could do the job, I dread to think what could have happened in an accident.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Just to add a little more gloom to this question. A friend of mine had an accident with his MH and the insurance company weighed his MH and found he was overloaded at the time of the accident and declared his insurance invalid. I took this up with our insurance broker (Caravan Club) who confirmed that this is correct and that insurance companies are getting wise to this and carrying out more and more weighing of MH's.

A number of people don't realise these days that items such as awnings, extra batteries, aircon etc. etc. all come off the available payload. A number of Mh's these days have at best reasonable payload and at worst poor payload. I had a Dethleffs i7870, tag axle and we fitted awning, generator, extra batteries, aircon - all coming off the measly 350kg payload, leaving us with less than 150kgs to play with - very difficult planning a trip as bikes & BBQ's sometimes had to be left behind.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weights*

Hi

Just to add a bit more.....my motorhome has a gross weight of 5000 kg - that is a lot for a european motorhome, and mine is a tag axle.

Follow the info on the plate rather than the manual.

R


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

bandaid said:


> this may be a trade secret ... what would make you' for instance, give a motorhome a tug for being overweight


Lots of reasons. I think though the question you're asking is "What in reality are the chances of my being tugged when I'm overweight".

In reality, I can't say. Motorhomes are not generally considered to be a high-risk vehicle type in terms of construction & use offences or lack of insurance, so it can reasonably be deducted that you won't be at the top of the list for stop-checks. However, it can also be argued that motorhomers sometimes consider themselves to be above the law for various reasons (i.e. "I'm not a burglar" 8O) and - for example - are quite prepared to take their chances with A-frames or weight issues for the self-same reason as I've cited above. If you draw a logical conclusion to this, it figures that sometimes, you'll be stopped by some law enforcement officers for those reasons.

There is no single answer to your question, but one I can provide as to what would make me tug a motorhome, is "Cos I feel like it".

My advice? Never be arrogant towards the law, as it has a nasty habit of biting you on the bum when you least expect it. (Quite apart from the life-changing prospect of having your insurance invalidated when you have a serious accident.)

Dougie.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Dougie, nope, I wasnt worrying about being caught overweight,* although the G,P did mention it to me on my C licence medical  

I was just curious, theres alot of the " what makes you suspect/why would you " questions I've heard and mostly the answers come down to instinct, gut feeling or however you want to describe it. I thought it may be the same in this instance, and, it appeas, I was close.

which is nice.



* the reason I'm not worried about being overweight in the RV is cos I dont possess enough kit to make it overweight, I got 1580 pounds of load margin before it goes from Unladen to max laden, or whatever the terms are today according to the makers spec. sheet.


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

*On being overweight*

I'm not so bothered about being stopped and weighed, cos I think that the law is trying to protect road users from those of us who think it doesn't matter too much. ( I have a similar view on speeding, but that's another story...)

However, I have this horror of being stopped and being found to be overweight. Now I've read so much about it. I know darn well I couldn't lie well enough to convince someone that I didn't know the law.

Hence the reason why me and "her indoors" + two collies, van with a full fuel tank, a full water tank, full gas cylinders and all the gubbins we usually carry, were to be found sitting on a weighbridge near Penrith last week, where we discovered to our joy that we didn't make the all up weight limit by 360kg.

Happy days...what else can I stuff in it ? Or perhaps I can sell weight to anyone else who wants stuff carried down to the South West on 9th June ? Come to think of it, that could be a nice little earner .... Nuke, I think we need a new forum, for weight gains...

Smick


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

3.5 tonnes appears to be a magical weight for Motorhomes as above it take them into a different class for driving licences and various other things both here and abroad.

Now, engine capacities are invariably quoted as "whole" numbers, largely as a marketing ploy. 
Invariably they are actually 2cc or so less, as in a "2 litre" being 1998cc.
This is presumably to keep the vehicle in the next lowest insurance class.

Apply that principle to the weight of a motorhome.

My Hymer VAN522 is plated as 3500 and not 3499.

So, is it in the super class or is it "up to and including 3500kg" and not a gram more than that or risk being prosecuted for excess weight?


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Hi Pippin! 

Does the word 'maximum' come into the equation. Surely a maximum weight of 3.5t includes 3,500kg?

Time for a drop of Sauvignon Blanc me thinks!


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

I realise you may have got very bored with this topic by now, but I am convinced the explanation given by Herman is correct. The max fully loaded weight for your motorhome on its own, is 3490 kg. This is referred to as the Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM).

I think your confusion and understandable irritation is caused by an incorrect manual. Comparing the pictures of the manual and vehicle plate, I think Dethleffs have transposed items D and E. The higher figure must be the Train Weight, or max weight of fully loaded Mhome PLUS trailer. And within this figure, the Mhome must NOT exceed 3490Kg. To ignore this leaves you exposed to all the dire consequences others have highlighted.

Hope you get it all sorted out.


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## reener (Oct 2, 2005)

Dont forget that there is an accepted 'tolerance' of + / - 5% on the weight readings. So in theory, a gross weight reading of 3675 Kg would be within the legal limits of a 3500 Kg motorhome


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

*you have had the facts and the advice*

The Facts.

The 5200kg is the Gross train weight ie. your vehicle plus any permitted trailer.

The 1750kg is the max weight - front axle

The 1900kg is the max weight - rear axle.

The 3490kg is the maximum permitted weight (gross) of your vehicle.

Even if you are within the total permitted weight of your vehicle! You may still be overweight on one axle and this makes your vehicle non compliant and you can still be prosecuted.

The advice
Empty your wast tank always before you drive away.
Totally unpack the motorhome and then repack considering every item with the questions "do I really need this" and "When did we last use this"

Its your decision!

You are not alone, most motorhomes have insuficient residual capacity for us who like our pride and joy to be a home from home and fill it with our favourite clutter.

C.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: On being overweight*



smick said:


> Hence the reason why [we] were to be found sitting on a weighbridge near Penrith last week, where we discovered to our joy that we didn't make the all up weight limit.... Happy days


But that's the point, isn't it? All the theoretical debating in the world about the rights & wrongs of "the law" counts for diddly squat compared with the peace of mind you've now got by having taken a trip to a weighbridge & shelling out your fiver or whatever.

Spot on.

Dougie.


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## brandywine (Aug 28, 2007)

We carry a scooter and have to be very careful of weight, I know because of the advice on here, we went loaded up and checked.

You obviously need to reduce gross weight down to 3490kgs. and reduce rear axle weight

What you can do to help with axle weights is move as many heavy items as you can forward, your front axle is well under loaded.

Regards.


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## 108987 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, We will try and reduce our weight. The waste tank is usually emptied when leaving site and the fresh water is low on our way home. We think it makes the weight at the rear axle worse because that is where our kitchen is..the oven and fridge must weigh quite a bit. Also we have a towbar which we will probably never use and are thinking of removing that. We are going to weigh what we remove to see how much weight we have lost. We have been told that it is worse to be over at the front axle than the back, but by what we remove should lower the back axle weight .. except for when we need to take our generator  

Thanks for your replies

Carolyn


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