# Blow out



## Paulvfr800 (Mar 31, 2018)

We are fairly new to Motorhome and had the scary incident of a rear tyre blowout on the motorway. The vehicle was recovered & taken to nearest motorway services and spare wheel put on. Whilst checking Motorhome it was disturbing to see the amount of damage done. The gas pipe to oven is severed, grey water waste pipe broken off and some electrical wiring broken.
The wheel arch has smashed and left a gaping hole thro to the underside of the oven where our pans are stored. The pans are all dinted on the underside from impact.
This obviously resulted in us having to postpone our trip.

It appears a 'simple' blowout has resulted in £????'s Of damage and was wondering if anyone else has experienced this. In hindsight I would of thought if this can happen a stronger wheel arch would be fitted (ours is plastic).
The vehicle is a 2003 Autotrail Cheyenne

Any feedback appreciated, together with any recommendations for getting repairs done, we are based in West Yorkshire UK.

Thanks in advance 

Paul


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi Paul,

This doesn't sound like a "simple blowout" at all, and to have caused that amount of damage it sounds like either the tyre completely disintegrated flailing chunks of tyre casing against the underside wheel arch, or could you have run over some object laying in the road which the tyre picked up?

Don't know how long you've had your MH, but if maybe you haven't had it long, could there have been a "rubbish" cheap tyre fitted when you purchased it? Like I said, sounds an awful of expensive damage for a blowout. Could some third party be responsible maybe?

Mick


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Are the tyres the original 2003 ones, or if the motorhome is 2003 the tyres could be 2002 or 2001 depending on how long the converter had the chassis.
There is a date code on the tyres, have a look at the rest of them, it is 4 numbers inside a small circle, ie, 26 03 would indicate the tyres were made in the 26th week of 2003 etc.
Blow outs can cause that sort of damage though.


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

I think we are thinking along the same lines here coppo !!!


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

The general consensus is that tyres on motorhomes should be changed when they are 5 or 6 years old.....irrespective of tread wear.

There are many who do it differently though!

PS. I had an old tyre go on a caravan and caused similar damage to your experience...luckily it missed all the vital connections.
I had inspected the tyres and was satisfied they were good....I now don't try and save pennies!!:surprise:


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## Paulvfr800 (Mar 31, 2018)

The tyres were new when we bought it 2 years ago so only done approx 5000 miles.
Full service & MOT done 2 weeks ago with no issues.
The tyre had disintegrated with rubber chunks and metal all over !!


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Anything left of the tyre ?

What make / model tyre?

Could be worth sending whats left to tyre manufacturers to get their ideas on cause ?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I had a similar rear blowout over 10 years ago on a large RV here in France. Blew the wheelarch trim off the rig, damaged the grey outlet drain and split the very substantial wheelarch.
Yes the tyre had broken up and large chunks did the damage. Cost me lots of Euros getting the bodywork repaired but luckily I managed the plumbing and inside wheelarch.

But if you travel the motorways of England as I did many years ago as a trucker, you do see bits of truck tyres spread along the hard shoulder and grass verges. So it's common.

Ray.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Wonder if the OP has run over something sharp and blown it, 2 year old tyres its unusual I must say. I presume they were the correct load rating and the motorhome wasnt running over weight on either axle?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I think a loss of air allowing a good tyre to run severely underinflated for any length of time might cause eventual disintegration.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Would you be able to make an insurance claim for this sort of damage?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Would you be able to make an insurance claim for this sort of damage?


I can't see why not Kev. Depending upon the cost v NCB impact.

Graham:serious:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I just wasn't sure how they operate these days, not made a claim touch wood.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I just wasn't sure how they operate these days, not made a claim touch wood.


Nor me mate but accidental damage caused by a blow out would seem to me what insurance is for (amongst other things)

Graham :smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I think a loss of air allowing a good tyre to run severely underinflated for any length of time might cause eventual disintegration.
> 
> Ray.


A not uncommon problem, caravans suffer it even more. The trouble is that the tyre deflates slowly, and, if like the OP you are on a road where there is no requirement to change direction (virtually straight motorway) you have no way of "feeling" that a tyre has gone soggy. The deflated tyre gets hotter and hotter due to the constant flexing (it's a vicious circle) until, at some point, the carcass suffers a sudden catastrophic failure. If you think of the centrifugal forces involved in a MH tyre going round and round at 60mph (??? RPM) you can see how the remaining parts flailing around can cause so much damage.

All new passenger cars must be fitted with a tyre pressure monitoring system to help prevent the above scenario. It's an MOT test item now.

They are available as a simple aftermarket fit, I have a six sensor Tyrepal system fitted to my car and, much more impotantly, my caravans wheels. The cost was slightly more than a single replacement tyre for my car and it has warned me of a puncture which enabled me to only need to pay for a repair rather than a new £250 tyre!

An excellent investment and I would advise anyone without a TPMS to get one ASAP, the peace of mind they offer alone is worth the outlay and it could save you the very distressing (and expensive) experience described by the OP.

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

60mph on a 15" wheel = 812 rpm


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Kev

Have you taken into account the additional radius of the tyrewall which makes the radius much greater than just the 15” diameter wheel rim?? That would give a lower RPM because of greater rolling circumference.

I have a mate who worked for many years in automotive engineering, one day shortly after electronic calculators came into being, he and his mate decided to work out the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight! Apparently it was a HUMUNGOUS number, something like 40+ digits. Sadly he didn’t keep a record of it. But at 186,000 miles per second I make the formula 

186,000 x 1760 ( yds in a mile) to get how many yards per second, then divide by 220 (yards in a furlong) that will give you furlongs per second 

Then multiply that x 60 (secs in a minute) x 60 (mins in an hour) x 24 (hours in a day) x 14 (days in a fortnight) 

My calculator showed an error message after the very first calculation :nerd:

Anyone got access to a Cray supercomputer???

Andy


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> A not uncommon problem, caravans suffer it even more. The trouble is that the tyre deflates slowly, and, if like the OP you are on a road where there is no requirement to change direction (virtually straight motorway) you have no way of "feeling" that a tyre has gone soggy. The deflated tyre gets hotter and hotter due to the constant flexing (it's a vicious circle) until, at some point, the carcass suffers a sudden catastrophic failure. If you think of the centrifugal forces involved in a MH tyre going round and round at 60mph (??? RPM) you can see how the remaining parts flailing around can cause so much damage.
> 
> All new passenger cars must be fitted with a tyre pressure monitoring system to help prevent the above scenario. It's an MOT test item now.
> 
> ...


I fitted the Tyrepal system to our van as well as having seen the damage blow outs can cause (my pension is from Goodyear/Dunlop) so its money well spent as far as I'm concerned.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Our Tiguan came with tyre sensors but the only time they flagged up a pressure loss it was a false alarm and it took ages to reset and get the light out.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Kev
> 
> Have you taken into account the additional radius of the tyrewall which makes the radius much greater than just the 15" diameter wheel rim?? That would give a lower RPM because of greater rolling circumference.
> 
> ...


Yikes!! I didn't do anything as dumb as trying to work it out Andy, that's what Google is for.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/60-mph-812-rpm-15-tirei-35434.html


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## Art Hur (Apr 7, 2018)

Hi 
agree with all said re age of tyre etc BUT ALSO to add a consideration: beware air pressure. 
Many dealers and users blow up tyres to pressure on door pillar plate which is manufactures catch all base versions. Whenever I get mine back from a service tyres are overinflated by 10psi not good on a long hot speedy motorway trip!
Go to weighbridge then contact tyre manufacturer for pressure for tyres weight each axle. Continental welcome this and are very helpful.
Also google TYRESAFE and download their pdf on motorhome tyre pressures.
my van runs with less rattle and vibes on the proper pressure and the difference between fully laded trip weight and 'empty' is 10psi in the rear!

may your horizons never fade or your dreams evade


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Sorry but I must very strongly disagree.

An OVER inflated tyre will not overheat, an UNDER inflated one most certainly will, due to the high amount of flexing that an underinflated one will undergo. (Google it) 

Andy


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## Art Hur (Apr 7, 2018)

*blowouts - some more*

TRUE and a wise interjection Andy. I hope no one hurtles along on soft tyres.

I was more trying to point out getting the right pressure is not straight forward, and I think many vans tyres may be overinflated. Tyres heat most in use doing sustained motorway speeds and this adds to air pressure. Not good if the tyre is already overinflated. Balloons pop loudest the harder they are!

Over 50 years of riding and driving I don't fear a 'blowout' at 30-40mph, especially if at the rear. I've had tyrewall bulges, screws and nails embedded, leaking wheel rims, porous inner-tubes, snapped wall wires, and escapades with re-treads). 
The only thing I really fear is a blowout on a busy motorway at 70mph.

If the tyre is good the other risk is debris, and that speed you don't easily see it or may not be able to avoid it. (at 4.00am once on the M1 - on a bike - I casually went centre lane to avoid what I thought was a joining strip. It was an 8ft RSJ lying square across the lane!).

The other caution is CAUTION: drive square and quiet and turn the blxxdy music off occasionally! Check there is no unusual vibration or clicking (it may not be a bit of road grit - in NZ a while back and driving a camper a persistent click was the worn end of a 6 inch nail driven fully in)

Whatever the pressure FRICTION causes heating. Speed (revolutions X time) increases surface contact and the faster the speed the more the tyre heats. And pressure impacts on contact. The lower the pressure the bigger the footprint exposed to friction, and the more the tyre flexes (which also adds to heating).

The tendency of many is not to do a weekly TP check or inspect treads (damage, foreign objects and tracking wear); and to think punctures are rare events these days (which is true but not an excuse for complacency). AND don't drive overloaded!!! MH's often are given the poor load weights of many MH's
I said enough.
checks help to ensure your horizons never fade or your dreams evade 
Art.:smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Very well put Art!!

Yet again I will extol the virtues of investing in a Tyre Pressure Monitoring system. They can be set to alert you when the pressure drops to a level that you set (I have mine set to activate at about 5psi below the normal running pressure) It can also set it to activate at a temperature (my Tyrepal suggests about 65* which seemed a bit high to me but I reasoned they are the experts in the matter, so I went with the recommendation)
What HAS surprised me is how quickly the pressures increase once you start driving, but only by a few psi, and then stabilises. On hot days and long journeys it can increase by up to 10 psi on a car. The other thing is the difference in temeratures on a sunny day, on the sunny side of the car it can be several degrees higher than the shady side! 

TPMS is, in my view, simply. MUST have, and even more so, if, like me, you tow a caravan.

Andyi


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I note that as cars become far more complex and electronic, owners do less and less relying on the 'due' service to find and cure all ills.
What were basic and regular checks carried out by the owner/driver are now relegated to the 'responsibility' of the annual service. And whatever fails is blamed on the "I have just had it serviced" idea even if the fail had nothing to do with an oil and filter change.

Ray.


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

I agree with Andy.

I have fitted a set to mine and used them for the first time on a trip down to the Pyrenees in December. I was facinated with the readings. The temps changed depending on the sun and as well I think because of the heat coming off the exhaust/engine. The temp remained low but increased slightly when driving through rain which was interesting.

I run at 50 and 55psi and the pressures increased by about 8 psi so if someone is running 70/80 psi door pillar setting the actual pressure "could be" nearly 90 psi. Blimey!!!!!

Alan


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Ah yes Ray gone are the days when dad and everyone else in the street had the bonnet up on Sunday morning, just to make sure it got you to work all, week, and thank god, but now as you say we've gone the other way, everything is colour coded under the bonnet now, but when did you last see anyone check their oil or anything else, but still these techno marvels keep on going.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I note that as cars become far more complex and electronic, owners do less and less relying on the 'due' service to find and cure all ills.
> What were basic and regular checks carried out by the owner/driver are now relegated to the 'responsibility' of the annual service. And whatever fails is blamed on the "I have just had it serviced" idea even if the fail had nothing to do with an oil and filter change.
> 
> Ray.


It always amused me when, after stopping a car in darkest December and asking the driver, "When did you last check your lights please" (due to one or more being out) I would often get the response "Well it was MOT'd in July!"

You are of course right about our reliance these days on technology, but having said that most vehicles these days go from one service to the next without using a drop of oil, and having warning lights for just about everything else, sort of negates the necessity of "doing" the oil, water, tyres etc on a weekly basis like wot we used to!!

Andy


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## MickAm (Jan 6, 2016)

Just had one yesterday down here in France. On motorway full speed. Stopped van immediately and managed to change wheel. Tyre is 3yrs old and was correctly inflated day before.
I’d say I got away lightly after reading all the above comments. Will also grease the spare wheel mechanism as this proved difficult.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

That's bad luck, but you don't normally gease the mechanism as this attracts dust etc and jams it up, you should just lower and raise it regularly and perhaps hose it while down.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> It always amused me when, after stopping a car in darkest December and asking the driver, "When did you last check your lights please" (due to one or more being out) I would often get the response "Well it was MOT'd in July!"
> 
> You are of course right about our reliance these days on technology, but having said that most vehicles these days go from one service to the next without using a drop of oil, and having warning lights for just about everything else, sort of negates the necessity of "doing" the oil, water, tyres etc on a weekly basis like wot we used to!! Andy


Well done Mick. Yes you were lucky to stop safely.

Now most cars have a dash warning when any lamp is out Andy it makes checking even less likely. But again with the complexity of the light assembly it's suggested taking the car to an 'authorised' service agent? Just to change a bulb.

Ray.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Used to be if your tyre was inflated correctly the pressure would rise by 4psi, if it raised more then tyre was underinflated by the difference between 4psi and the actual rise, If it was less then it was overinflated by the difference between 4psi and actual rise.


This has always worked well for me


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

pete4x4 said:


> Used to be if your tyre was inflated correctly the pressure would rise by 4psi, if it raised more then tyre was underinflated by the difference between 4psi and the actual rise, If it was less then it was overinflated by the difference between 4psi and actual rise.
> 
> This has always worked well for me


That would be really good info if we knew for sure that it worked as stated. Problem is that normally the van weight goes up/down depending on loads so best to just get a pressure and stick to it. You will never get it spot on.

As an aside to MikeAm I thought it was "illegle" to change a wheel on a motorway. Understood it had to be done by an Authorised company.

Alan


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Since when Alan.?

Ray.


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

raynipper said:


> Since when Alan.?
> 
> Ray.


As I understood it!

If you brakedown on a motorway in France then all passengers should fit yellow jackets get out the vehicle and wait in a safe place behind the safety barrier until help arrives. How would you change a wheel if you do that?

I will have to look it up.

1050 am Just found this link. http://www.eutouring.com/regulations_driving_in_france.html

I was correct except I forgot about the warning triangles.Lots of links on Google as well.

Alan


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## MickAm (Jan 6, 2016)

Just as an update on procedure to allay any fears of not following French Rules....

We heard the tyre blowout and stopped instantly on the hard shoulder. Had a quick look and the tyre was still deflating. I was about 1 mile from the nearest emergency telephone so with the hazards on I drove very slowly on the hard shoulder towards the telephone and came across an access road off the hard shoulder with an automatic gate (that was locked), this did however offer a large space to pull in off the hard shoulder where I could work safely. I did put on the hi vis jacket and so did the rest of the family who waited behind the fence and I did put out the warming triangle.

I called the emergency service on the telephone and they were ok with me changing the tyre where I was , they advised me that I could get their breakdown contractors to come out if need be but in the end I managed...... it would have cost me €150 to get them out, my European cover would have covered it if need be but it was quicker to get on with it and do it myself.

We made it to our final destination and called the local garage, they can change the tyre when I’m ready so plan to do this in a few days, actually getting both back ones done despite only being 3 years old. Front ones are only a month old...!


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

I dont think you are right in not being able to change the wheel yourself, even the link you put up states if you need assistance then you must call the police. If your doing it yourself then you dont need any help.
I think all its saying is you have to call the police not a breakdown service.


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

You could well be right. Not something I would need to do as do not have a spare and working on the hard shoulder is not my idea of a good holiday experience either.

Maybe "MR PLOD" Andy may see this and could ask his mate in France (who I think may be a policeman) if he can confirm one way or another what the law is.

Alan


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Friend with a BMW and 'run flat tyres' found he had a puncture. He read you can drive at 40kmph so has visited several garages to try and get one or two new tyres. As none have been in stock he ordered two which will take a week to arrive.
He is now driving everywhere at 40kmph and I questioned this as I feel he might damage the rim eventually.?
Personally I would not buy any car without a spare even if it was a spacesaver.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Me too Ray, the amount of time wasted waiting for Mr AA to go off and find the right sized tyre is saved, plus the cost as they go up if you're stuck, there is a weight penalty, but the peace of mind outweighs that.


See what I did there.


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