# Gaslow v Calor - price comparison



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi

We have discussed this many times and as I have a spare ten mins, thought I would compile some info for anyone interested.

To make a direct comparison, I have assumed (I know it is wrong to assume as it makes as ass of u and me) that the buyer has no cylinders what so ever - example a new van. 

So here goes.....

2 x 13 kg Calor cylinders = £24.99 each
2 x 13kg refills = £17.49 each
Total = £84.96


With Gaslow

System, set up and working, 2 x 11 kg cylinders (fitted)

£420.00

Price to fill (note - 11kg capacity)

11kg x 2 = 22 kg (approx 44 litres) 
44 litres at 42p per litre = £18.48

Total cost with Gaslow = £438.48

Further calculations, without gas

Gaslow, fitted = £420.00

2 x Calor cylinders = £49.98

Price differential is £370.02

So, in order to make savings.....

13kg Calor = £17.49 (26 litres, this would equate to about £14.80 for 11 kgs - 22 litres, so 44 litres would be £29.60)

44 litres of Calor at a petrol station would be 44 x 42 = £18.48

The saving therefore per full refill is only £11.12

Based on the original price differential of £370.02, you need to have 33 total refills (both cylinders) in order to break even.

However, there is also the added convenience factor with Gaslow. 

If you use 6kg cylinders, in my area, these cost £13.99 to refill - that is £27.98 for two - 24 litres of gas in total. 

2 x 6kg Gaslow cylinders will cost 24litres x 42p = £10.08

The saving here on a total refill - both cylinders is £17.90. Based on the same start up cost differential - £370.02 - (it would be slightly less as the 6kg Gaslow cylinders at about £10.00 cheaper than the 13kg ones), you would break even after 21 total refills of both cylinders. 

I do not know how many cylinders of gas you use etc, but I hope these figures are of some use to some one!

Rapide561


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Our local Brownhills have a promotional offer for Gaslow supply and fitting at the moment. 

One reason we would consider having it fitted is that we could fill up on the continent. We've never run out of gas while there but we are more economical than we'd like to be to avoid doing so.

Do people find it easy to re-fill all over Europe ?

G


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for the Maths Russel, I have been pondering over that for a week or two and was going to go for Gaslow based on conveiniance more than savings ,
now i have seen the actual break even figures I can work out it will take me aprox 5-6 years to get money back as it were 
Back to the drawing board me thinks 

edit-- these figures are based on weekending only ,longer breaks will result in a quicker payback
there you go the more i go away the more i save!!!! of to load the MH :lol:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks for the sums, Russell. Very interesting.

As the 2 G's say, the convenience on the continent would be a major factor for me. During this summer's sojourn, we used less than one 6kg bottle (2 weeks, probably 2/3 on hookup). So a 'normal' summer holiday wouldn't concern me.

However, come the revolution (or our retirement, whichever comes first), and we spend many weeks on the continent, I would definitely do it. I might consider it beforehand if we stay settled with this van. I don't want to shell out all that money, only for us to part/ex the thing within a year. Not that that's likely to happen, dear  

Gerald


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Gaslow maths*

Hi

I should have added E&OE in case there is a law suit.

Seriously though, the convenience for me out weighs everything else.

As for filling up overseas, I have two adaptors - various others are available.

I think I might go on Countdown - if they will do a numbers only version!

Rapide561


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

There is another cost saving that has so far not been mentioned.

Availability of cheap(ish) and plentiful/refillable on continent gas means you can dispense with hook up for much of the year. We have just returned from 4 weeks in Norway, used no hook up at all, and gas cost an average of 50p per day. By contrast, hook up was £4.50 per day on some sites.

Gaslow wins hands down, in my view

(Norway - http://www.pippins.me.uk/Scandinavia/2006_index.htm )


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Good point. A lot of the time, it seems that hookup is included in the price, and we forget about it.

Gerald


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## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

*Russels gaslow maths*

Russel,
Very informative post, to me anyway so thanks for that. It raises another question for me though in that you say that refilling on the continent is no problem because you have a couple of adapters. I thought, (read assumed) that once the Gaslow system was fitted it was ready to go anywhere.
Could you be so kind as to explain what adapters are necessary to complete the recharging of the cylinders.
Thanks once again for the info and take your time to reply, I don't even own a motorhome as yet, however, we seem to have narrowed the selection process down to one, an Autotrail Cheyenne. HOWEVER, the manufacturers are transferring the layout we like, a rear lounge, onto the Apache range for 2007 so, here we go again.
Regards and best wishes with your "move"
Norman


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## 97353 (Jan 20, 2006)

Hello Norman,
May I answer your question? You'll see the two brass adapters about halfway down this page on the Gaslow site:

http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pages/products.htm

Apparently these are all you need to enable refilling anywhere in Europe.

Incidentally, the thought of not ever having to lug heavy cylinders again also influenced our decision to go for Gaslow. Add in an automatic changeover valve and a remote indicator, and the sheer convenience factor, and for us it's a case of money well spent. I had reckoned on somewhere between 6 and 8 years before it all becomes 'cost effective', by the way - depending on how soon I can join my wife in retirement...

We don't anticipate changing our van in that time, but if we do then I'll simply transfer the whole system to the new vehicle and make good the hole in the side where the filler nozzle is.

Regards,
Paul


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Good post - looked at it that way the economics don't make sense but as others have said there are other less quantifiable factors such as the convenience.
In our Symbol we only have room for one 6kg Gaslow so rely on a CampingGaz cylinder as reserve with a manual changeover valve. We found a huge cost saving during our eight week European trip compared to the previous year, as the alternative was CampingGaz 907 cylinders at up to €18 a time for 2.7 kg also CampingGaz wasn't available in Slovenia. We only found 5 autogas refill places listed and used one of them without a problem - once we had found it  

Based on a single cylinder setup at about £180 it was well worth it (We already had a selection of Calor and CampingGaz cylinders some bought very cheaply at car boot sales  

The comparative daily costs of using a hookup are interesting so we try to avoid paying if offered the option  

Steve


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

Grizzly said:



> Our local Brownhills have a promotional offer for Gaslow supply and fitting at the moment.
> 
> Do people find it easy to re-fill all over Europe ?
> 
> G


Hi G,

We have filled up in most countries in Europe including Turkey. The only country that's a bit short on filling stations is Spain, they are getting better though.  There are a couple of web sites that list the filling stations so that makes life a lot easier.

We have had our refillable for over three years now and with the external filling point at waist level it's a very simple task to refill. 

Ours was done for convenience rather than economy.

Don


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Adaptors*

Hi Norman

Follow the link provided and the info is there. I have a screw in type and another. One is fairly unique to Italy and the other more universal.

Rapide561


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Adaptors*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi Norman
> 
> Follow the link provided and the info is there. I have a screw in type and another. One is fairly unique to Italy and the other more universal.
> 
> Rapide561


Russell,

I think you may have got confused between the two adapters.

This list shows what adapter is needed for which country and the availability of LPG.

I've compiled this list in good faith so please check the details before you leave the UK if LPG is critical for you.

As refillable gas bottles are getting popular the search for LPG filling 
stations in Europe will intensify. They are plentiful in France but are few and far between in other areas.

See http://www.autogas-forum.de/de-version/ then click on "English Forum" then click on "Refueling Stations (Autogas - LPG Europe)" This is the main site for the links I've listed below, I think they all work.

Alternatively you can use http://www.gas-tankstellen.de/menu.php?language=en_US and select the country you require.

There are three types of connectors on LPG filling guns at filling stations in Europe. These are: Bayonet (Sometimes known as Dutch Bayonet), Clawgun and Acme Thread.

The following is a list of countries and the guns (where known) most likely found in those countries.

Austria: Clawgun Very few outlets. The OeAMTC publishes a list of LPG selling points 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/a-lpg-stations.htm

Belgium: Acme 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/b-lpg-stations.htm

Croatia: Clawgun, LPG available 
http://www.sweb.cz/mlocek/chorvatsko.html

Czech Republic LPG is called "Autoplyn" approx 380 outlets, map available from filling stations and list from UAMK.

Denmark: Clawgun 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/dk-lpg-stations.htm

Eire: Acme LPG available

Finland: LPG is not available

France: Clawgun Widely available

Germany: Clawgun
A map and list of 100 fuel stations selling LPG in the west and south of Germany may be obtained from the ADAC. See also http://www.gas-tankstellen.de/menu.php?language=en_US

I came across this on the German LPG site "It is not possible to refuel a LPG-vehicle at a CNG-Refuelling-Station (german: "Erdgas-ankstelle"). The Pressure for CNG is 200 bar!!! This is to high for LPG-Cars ( < 5-15 bar; Berst-Pressure of the tank: 35 bar)."

Greece: Clawgun Available on main roads and large towns/cities. 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/gr-lpg-stations.htm

Hungary:Clawgun Available at 200 odd outlets 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/hu-lpg-stations.htm

Holland: Bayonet Widely available 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/nl-lpg-stations.htm

Italy: Clawgun LPG very limited in Southern Italy 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/it-lpg-stations.htm

Luxembourg: Clawgun Widely available 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/l-lpg-stations.htm

Norway: very few stations sell LPG 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/n-lpg-stations.htm

Poland: Clawgun LPG is available from the larger petrol stations on the main roads http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/pl-lpg-stations.htm

Portugal: Clawgun Available 
http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/p-lpg-stations.htm

Romania Clawgun http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/ro-lpg-stations.htm

Slovakia: Available, http://www.gas-tankstellen.de/menu.php?language=en_US

Slovenia: Very few petrol stations sell LPG. www.sweb.cz/mlocek/slovinsko.html

Spain: Clawgun. Very few gas outlets. http://tinyurl.com/3zftp
Because of the extra high tax on Autogas/LPG/GLP for private vehicles it was unavailable for LPG-drivers in Spain. By law it was only for vehicles for public transports, taxis, busses ... . Since the begining of 2003 the government has reduced the tax for LPG for private use. So it is now available at nearly all the Autogas/GLP-Stations who had sold it to taxis.

Sweden: Clawgun http://www.autogas-forum.de/lpg-stations/s-lpg-stations.htm

Switzerland: Clawgun. Very few petrol stations selling LPG. A list is available from TCS. http://www.jaquet-ge.ch/default.htm Scroll down and Click on "List des Stations Service GPL"

Turkey: Clawgun Widely available.

Adaptors can be obtained to convert from the Bayonet type to Clawgun or Acme The English/Dutch Bayonet has an internal thread in which the adaptors are screwed. It is important that the sealing face of the Bayonet fitting is not damaged and the sealing washer is in good condition.

Useful contacts in UK,

Autogas 2000 Ltd, http://www.autogas.co.uk/index.php
Pressland Autogas conversions http://www.presslandautogas.com/
MTH Autogas http://www.mthautogas.co.uk/ 
Gaslow http://www.gaslow.co.uk/

For an LPG guide Italy-Europe with legend in English there is a choice of three guides,Italy Centre-North, Italy Centre South,both include a map of Italy 1:500,000 scale with towns highlighted where filling stations exist. 
The 3rd Guide LPG Guide Italy-Europe includes addresses of 7430 stations in 26 countries. 200 prices for each guide was €6.90 with discounts if you bought two or three.

Further details www.egm.it/cartine or Fax 0039 0575 911 161, e-mail 
[email protected]

Hope this is useful to those who have a refillable bottles.

Safe travelling

Don


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*LPG*

Hello Don

That's a "helluva" post!

No doubt all will be revealed when I fill up at Garda - more to do on the November test run!

Rapide561


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

Thanks Don, that's really useful.

I only filled up once in Norway, typically, there're 2 places in Stavangar. The one I used didn't need an adapter, but it took me quite a while to work out why neither of my adapters fitted!


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## mike800966 (May 1, 2005)

*gaslow v Calor*

Many thanks for the erudite arithmetic. I was close to going for the Gaslow but something was telling me to have two bottles and some HP adaptors for French & Spanish bottles, having made contact thru this medium with people in those countries. This would then be an extension of our "local "system where we run on a 12Kg of Farmers Co-Op Gas which is usefully cheaper than Calor and just a 6kg of Calor which is always enough to get us home but could be replenished anywhere.

Been watching the Truma /BP gas cylinder saga and they seem to be very reticent about just how easy it is to find those lightweight plastic bottles, our local BP close to M5 J9 has LPG but no BP Bottles as yet

Mike


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

I have a 70L tank and an 11kg German cylinder as a reserve. 4 weeks in UK mostly not on electricity used rather less than half the tank. The acid test will come from our 3months in France, Spain and Portugal from mid November. Gas at my local supplier here in Germany is just about 35p per litre today, rather more in France but I will top up in France before hitting Spain.

Don's post is extremely helpful but to me it's all about convenience and not having to worry about running out in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Convenience*



PhredC said:


> I have a 70L tank and an 11kg German cylinder as a reserve. 4 weeks in UK mostly not on electricity used rather less than half the tank. The acid test will come from our 3months in France, Spain and Portugal from mid November. Gas at my local supplier here in Germany is just about 35p per litre today, rather more in France but I will top up in France before hitting Spain.
> 
> Don's post is extremely helpful but to me it's all about convenience and not having to worry about running out in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.


Hi

Convenience is the key word for me too - and saves a lot of worry - I would not have a clue how to change a gas cylinder!

Rapide561


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## legend (May 1, 2005)

These facts and figures are all very interesting.
However I don't think you need to do the 21 fills to pay for the system because you still have the system to sell.
Should really base figures on second hand value and I doubt that it is a product that would depreciate much.
For me the, after just returning from a few weeks on the continent without the system, the main benefit would be to be able to forget about having to look for the right kind of gas and changing them over. You would just top up when re-fueling the vehicle - and lets face it we all do enough of that!
I am sure that the gas in the re-fillable system would also be cheaper, which is a bonus.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Calor/Gaslow*

Hi Legend

A very valid point - guess work says you could sell the system for about £250.00 second hand - or add to to the value of the van - I certainly pointed the feature out to the purchaser of my previous van.

Rapide561


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## 94969 (May 1, 2005)

Russell, 
These facts and figures are all very interesting. what I'm thinking of doing is getting the 2 small cylinder and fit the charging socket in the gas locker on an angle bracket, (Not to leave a hole in the side of the van) when I come to sell the van, I'll remove the Gaslow, a blob of sealant in the fixing holes in the gas locker, and fit the Gaslow system to new m/h. The 5 years you said about will soon pass and I'll be in profit.


Roy.


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## mike800966 (May 1, 2005)

*Fitting Gaslow refill point*

I also intend to install a Gaslow system later in the winter. The suggestion that I got from Gaslow was to minimise the effect of the hole. to make it in the skirt below the gas locker. 
In view of the number of vents (drop outs) deliberately left under gas equipment I'm a bit edgy about enclosing the filler in the gaslocker- I know it would be neater but I dont want to argue it out in French on a forecourt with some jobsworth who might think I'm trying to do a dodgy refill! 
Neither do I want to have an accumulation of gas in the locker itself. Does anyone know the definitive answer under the reg's?

I was really surprised when Gaslow told me that you can do all the work yourself,, apparently you can work with the High Pressure side up to the reg but not after it, perhaps because a leak in the open air is one thing but in a confined space, thats something else. Presume that as long as it tests ok later under a habitation check then thats OK.

Just a thought, does anyone have the 76?mm holesaw thats needed for just the one hole available to hire?

Mike & Ann


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## legend (May 1, 2005)

Roy31 - If you set your filler somewhere not too obtrusive you can simply leave the plastic mount and cap in place and remove all of the rest for your new vehicle if you wish.
I think it would cause less concern if you simply pull up on a forecourt and top up like any vehicle using LPG. No-one would know if it is for the vehicle or you gas bottles.

Mike800966 - to drill the hole simply drill small holes within the pencil line and then cut out with a hack-saw blade. You don't need a fancy holesaw if you haven't one.


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## legend (May 1, 2005)

Just a thought.......
I had my Range Rover converted to run on LPG 7 years ago and it is great - just think of the money saved! Half price fuel, less maintenance with no appreciable difference whilst driving. These petrol engine conversions use liquid gas at pressure. i.e. They take off from the bottom of the gas tank.
I have just been reading about having LPG conversions put on diesel engines. 
see www.iwemalpg.com/Diesel_LPG.htm and www.ilovesponge.com/spongecars/diesel/dieseltechnical.htm
Not quite the same since it only introduces some LPG and it runs on a mixture of LPG & Diesel. But still worthwhile if you get 25 to 45% savings.
HOWEVER they introduce LPG in vapour form. i.e. from the top of the gas tank.
Would this mean that I would be able to 'tap' off this supply for use with cooking etc?
If so the idea of re-fillable gas bottles would be redundant and the cost could go towards the LPG conversion.
Someone also told me that instead of fitting re-fillable bottles you can have a bulk tank fitted and use that. see www.edgetechnology.co.uk - they also do conversions for generaters etc.

So many choices!!


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## 102172 (Dec 22, 2006)

I am told that Autogas in UK has road fuel duty & VAT.

If it is sold for non-vehicle motive use then it does not carry these taxes.

I understand that garages are reluctant to sell it for motorhome cooking/heating purposes without duty because of the accounting complexity.

Is that true?

Is it also easier to buy it at bulk depots without duty?

Thanks.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Gas*

Hello all,

Still usnure which adapter is need for Norway!

Anyway so much read and so much to reply too!

Hire of a hole saw:

I have one if anyone is near Manchester I will happily loan you mine FOC otherwise you may as well buy one from screwfix as me posting and you posting it back will be costly.

Savings:

Russel, you did not factor in all that gas you hand back to the distributer. For example, you are off to France for 2 weeks and have nearly empty bottles. What do most of us do? Send em back and get full ones. Soon mounts up!

VAT:

Garage forecourts do not usually have the Facilty in place to charge the lower rate of VAT, moreover they are selling "Autogas"! This is where those with bulk tanks can often make even more savings. Despite the fact we have a Proper LPG Gas supplier minutes from us, they are usually closed or I do not have the time to call in and make the savings on our Gaslow 20'ish litre fill up.

Hidden Holes:

A motorhomer was seen to open his locker to fill his bottles being refused. The operator had seen the user on CCTV and sent the manager out. Despite a long explanation that this was perfectly safe and legal, the Manager refused to authorise the pump. Okay he can move on but what if he is desperate or gets the same response at the next station. 
If you look here >>>Click here for a dangerous alternative to Gaslow<<< you will understand why!.

Forgotten what else I was going to reply to.

Trev


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Gaslow*

Hello

Mmmm - I had not thought about handing in half full Calor cylinders.

As for taxes etc - I don't know, but once - and only once I was refused service in Italy. (Note -pumps are "attended service in Italy"). I have never had a problem filling up in the UK.

I will do the sums again later - checking upto date prices at Morrisons - the sell both Autogas and Calor.

Sadly - I am still on Calor, not had time to convert the new van. Saying that, 2 x 13kg cylinders - and I am still on the first one - eight weeks later. Once this one is empty, and I have "changed over to the other", I shall book my Gaslow.

Russell


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

paul mj wrote

"I am told that Autogas in UK has road fuel duty & VAT"

You could always wash in cold water and never have hot meals this would save even more money.

There is a price for convenience. Never having to drive around abroad looking for a gas bottle means i will never regret having mine fitted.


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## 94220 (May 1, 2005)

*Alugas*

Much mention of Gaslow.........as good as it is.

Don't forget http://www.alugas.com/index.php?idcat=2&lang=2

We have just had 2 x 11kg bottles fitted in the gas locker, with 'T' and a filling point in the skirt of the van.

The bottle connections are the same as present on German rented bottles so a very easy system to fit onto an imported German van.

Cost £402 including the three European adapters.

Fitted in an hour by http://www.rvtex.co.uk/index.html

Excellent system and fitting service, and some weight saved on the payload.


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