# Sterilising Fresh water tank



## barryd

I have just managed to fill up the fresh tank with the long yellow hose on a CL that I just realised is for the toilet rinsing!!

Urghh!

I saw the green sign for water but didnt read it properly and as I didnt see a loo disposal point just thought it was the fresh hose. 

I started emptying the tank and have wiped around the filler.

I have now filled up from the fresh tap and wiped all around the filler with sterelised wipes.

Am I best dropping some sterelising tabs in the tank? There is a Morrisens down the road. What should I get? 

thanks


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## Zepp

We use Milton to clean our tank just mak sure you run it through all your taps to clean the water pipes aswell .


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## kandsservices

I use milton sterlising fluid its easier to get down the filler neck than tablets.Im sure morrisons one would do the same job.


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## brillopad

tesco's own brand milton.

Dennis


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## grizzlyj

Hi

Of course at French Aires this is normal practice 

Milton is a good bet. 1 tablet to 50l is their dosage for purifying drinking water which does leave a faint smell (but I seem to remember if you can't smell any chlorine the dosage is too low), or 1 to 5l for sterilising baby stuff. I'm sure you can get own brand stuff too, but may not be the same stuff as Milton. For instance in France, Auchan own brand were a bit cheaper but different stuff, a brand called Thermobaby were cheaper still and the right stuff. Sodium dichloroisocyanuric in fact! 800mg in Milton, 400mg in Thermombaby, which does a better job than just bleach according to Miltons website since its a bact

I sometimes get a smell from my bathroom cold tap in the camper, and for my 260l tank 4 tablets is fine to get rid of that. Premixed in some cold water, and poured in before tank refilling.

Zappy61(?) sells some bigger tablets for cleaning the tank on an occasional basis, which may be cheaper than putting milton in at 1 to 5l!

I'm sure a bit of a google of WHO recommendations on using normal household bleach to make water safe to drink could be an alternative, and cheaper still.

From http://www.milton-tm.com/caravanning_and_camping.html

"

Caravanning & CampingUse Milton solution on food preparation areas, fridges, storage containers, etc, and to sterilise water storage containers and tanks.

On board water tanks
Add 2 half caps (30ml) of Milton Sterilising Fluid to every 5 litres of water (0.6% concentration). Fill tanks and pump through to tap heads. Leave for 15 minutes, drain off, flush out and refill with water.

Water containers
As above, if they are heavily contaminated with algae inside then leave them overnight and rinse several times before use. Before leaving your motorhome unused for a period of time, add 5ml of Milton Sterilising Fluid to 10 litres of water and leave this in the pipe work as this will prevent any bacterial or fungal growth.

Waste tanks
Waste tanks will be treated if you drain them after sterilising the water tanks. If smells persist dismantle the external drain tap and remove any slime, debris or build up and soak in Milton solution as above, then reassemble. Before leaving your motorhome unused for a period of time, add 2 half caps of Milton (30ml) to 5 litres of water and leave this in the tank to prevent smells building up.

Cassette toilet
After emptying at the Elson point, wipe down outer surfaces of the cassette to make sure it is germ free. Also wipe down the inside of the compartment. Before leaving your motorhome for a period of time, repeat the waste tank process, making sure all traces are removed before blue toilet additives are added.

Drinking water
Add half a teaspoon (2.5 ml) of Milton Sterilising Fluid to every 5 litres of drinking water. Let it stand for 15 minutes before drinking.

"

Jason


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## barryd

Thanks for that.

I will try and get some of the tablets, chuck a couple in the tanks, wait 15 min and run it through the taps for a while.

Im sure it will be fine. We are drinking out of a 20 litre container anyway at the moment for now. this sort of thing doesnt normally concern me but we have never sterilised the tank at all in nearly 3 years so I guess its probably a good idea

Cheers
Barry


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## rowley

Zepp suggested running the solution through the taps. I believe that Milton can have a detrimental effect on the stainless tank in the water heater. So I would use it in the freshwater tank only.


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## barryd

Ah. Problem is the hot water tank takes its feed from the fresh water tank so are you saying I could harm the hot water tank if I put milton sterilising tablets in the fresh tank?


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## ActiveCampers

rowley said:


> Zepp suggested running the solution through the taps. I believe that Milton can have a detrimental effect on the stainless tank in the water heater. So I would use it in the freshwater tank only.


IU too have heard this.

Bit late - but you may want to read Zappys blog - and search for him here - some good recommendations (incl from me)

http://zappysblog.com/motorhome-art...-tanks-and-containers-in-caravans-motorhomes/


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## ActiveCampers

barryd said:


> Ah. Problem is the hot water tank takes its feed from the fresh water tank so are you saying I could harm the hot water tank if I put milton sterilising tablets in the fresh tank?


Apparently so. But as a one off? Also I'd argue if you've not run hot water you may get away with empty all (dump); refill clean/sterilise cold only; then a quick run through of the hot with the solution in. Just use caution and probably as a one off it won't really make any difference.


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## barryd

Thanks but I am confused now. Should I add some tablets to a full fresh tank, leave it for a while then half drain it? I dont want to run anything through the hot tank that has a remote chance of damaging it.

I thought this would be simple but I really dont know what to do now.


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## 747

Hi Barry,

A solution of Milton that is too strong* can* have a bad effect on Stainless Steel.

If you are putting a solution through the heater and then draining it, I would not worry at all. 

Go ahead and do it.

*The best tip I can give you.*

Next time you go on a trip, call here and pick me up. Then you will not have to spend most of your trip on here with problems.

BTW, we share the same surname but thank heaven we are not related. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## dikyenfo

I use Boots water purifying tablets all the time and find that between 2/4 per full tank works and 2 after you have used them before as re-filling is done before the tank is totally empty.


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## zappy61

barryd said:


> Thanks but I am confused now. Should I add some tablets to a full fresh tank, leave it for a while then half drain it? I dont want to run anything through the hot tank that has a remote chance of damaging it.
> 
> I thought this would be simple but I really dont know what to do now.


Hi Barry,

Take a look at my tutorial on disinfecting the tanks here. The trouble with Milton is calculating the strength as it needs to be just 20/25mg/l as detailed in my article. A mild solution can be pulled through the hot tank but there should be no need if you heat the water up to maximum and let it cool all bacteria will be eradicated. More info in the thead here

Graham


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## barryd

Sorry folks Im on a slow mobile connection and cant open links very well.

Sorry but in simple terms I am proposing the following two options

1. Get hold of some milton tablets tomorrow, put two in the 100 litre tank. Leave it for an hour, drain it and refil the tank and start drinking it.

2. Not bother doing anything. Isnt there disinfectent in the water anyway?


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## grizzlyj

Quoting Miltons website;

On board water tanks
Add 2 half caps (30ml) of Milton Sterilising Fluid to every 5 litres of water (0.6% concentration). Fill tanks and pump through to tap heads. Leave for 15 minutes, drain off, flush out and refill with water.

Or

Drinking water
Add half a teaspoon (2.5 ml) of Milton Sterilising Fluid to every 5 litres of drinking water. Let it stand for 15 minutes before drinking.



So me adding a tablet per 50l-70l is to drink, and did so for a year. A contaminated tank would need more to be fully sterilised, as above.

100l tank needs 600ml of their fluid, left for 15mins then thoroughly flushed.

Jason


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## barryd

Thanks but when it says run it through all taps isnt this then risking damage to the hot water tank? 

600ml is over half a litre isnt it?

Seems a lot.

Still confused.

think I will just take my chances

Regards
BD


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## Freddiebooks

If you only turn the tap onto cold, then i imagine it won't draw water from the hot water heater whilst you do the cleaning process. So none of the sterilising fluid will be drawn into the heater from the frsh water tank.

Hope all goes well.

Freddiebooks


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## rowley

With most systems, when the pump is operated the hot water tank gets filled first. However, you may have a hot tank by pass valve fitted.


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## barryd

You would have to turn the pump off to avoid filling the hot tank. I could add some tablets to a full tank, leave it a while and then empty and fill again. I just dont know if its worth messing on now as there is no clear answer as to what to do.


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## grizzlyj

That depends if you think you've poked anything nasty into your tank.

The things you could catch in my opinion are not worth a small chance of maybe damaging your water system, if you soak in a strong solution and thoroughly rinse without turning the heater on.

Bleaching agents may well attack stainless steel, but they're still used in swimming pools and for kitchen stuff.

Jason


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## barryd

I think I will leave it for the few days we have left and then get some milton and do it back home. We shall just use the water carrier for drinking water. The hose looked ok to be honest and was hung up. All those french Aires taps we have used and never had a problem. I know Im talking myself out of doing it and I shouldnt really but it sounds like a lot of hassle when we are moving on tomorrow and going wilding.

Thanks for all the suggestions Im just so flipping annoyed that I did it.

747, we will pick you up next time as our guardian, tour guide and assistant beer drinker. Why do we always have a drama!!!


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## zappy61

barryd said:


> I think I will leave it for the few days we have left and then get some milton and do it back home. We shall just use the water carrier for drinking water. The hose looked ok to be honest and was hung up. All those french Aires taps we have used and never had a problem. I know Im talking myself out of doing it and I shouldnt really but it sounds like a lot of hassle when we are moving on tomorrow and going wilding.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions Im just so flipping annoyed that I did it.
> 
> 747, we will pick you up next time as our guardian, tour guide and assistant beer drinker. Why do we always have a drama!!!


Barry I would just fill the tank up and empty it out refill it and draw some fresh through the system and it should be OK. The hot water will not be a problem (see my earlier post) Then when you get home disinfect it with what ever method you choose but read my tutorial first.

Graham


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## barryd

Thanks Graham. Will have a proper read when I can.

Regards
Barry


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## bigbazza

Take the Zappy route Barry, it works it's cheap and it's tasteless.
Speaking from experience


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## jud

barryd said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I will try and get some of the tablets, chuck a couple in the tanks, wait 15 min and run it through the taps for a while.
> 
> Im sure it will be fine. We are drinking out of a 20 litre container anyway at the moment for now. this sort of thing doesnt normally concern me but we have never sterilised the tank at all in nearly 3 years so I guess its probably a good idea
> 
> Cheers
> Barry


hi barryd don't want to put you off using sterilise tablets or simmer . but we bought a m/h which had the tablets put in at some time and they left an odour in the tank which we could taste in our cups of tea so after that we had to buy bottled water. :?:


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## 747

bigbazza said:


> Take the Zappy route Barry, it works it's cheap and it's tasteless.
> Speaking from experience


'Cheap and tasteless'

That sums Barry up very well. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bigbazza

Oy you, I'm gona tell if you call me names.
I don't get it anyway :?

Just realised you meant the other Barry.
That's ok then


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## 747

bigbazza said:


> Oy you, I'm gona tell if you call me names.
> I don't get it anyway :?
> 
> Just realised you meant the other Barry.
> That's ok then


I have told you before, anybody with 'big' in their name gets a lot of courtesy and respect from me. 

Sorry for the misunderstanding Sir.  :lol: :lol:


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## barryd

747 wrote:
“Cheap and tasteless' 

That sums Barry up very well"

Thats ritch coming from a Northern Monkey who thinks an outside toilet is posh!

Not worried about the water anymore. Gave it a good rinse but have decided to just drink beer instead. 

Currently parked in Glenridding Ullswater, its freezing and raining but the vans nice and warm!


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## zappy61

*Its goodbye from zappy61*

Hi All,
When barryd posted his problem regarding a possible infection of his water tank I responded in my usual way offering help and guidance using the tutorial on my blog and my disinfection tablets. Others had suggested Milton which is a viable alternative but I commented that I found it difficult for me to work out the strength in mg/l because as far as I can ascertain Milton do not say what it is. Their instructions advise adding 1 tablet for every 5 litres of water which is a lot of tablets (and expense) and leave for 15 minutes contact time (and this would suggest a strong dosage). I recommend 20/25 mg/l of sodium hypochlorite for a minimum of 1 hour and maximum of 2 as this is a safe strength for material contact and should not present taste problems. Later I received a PM from a contributor to the thread accusing me of:

*'....self promotion by being coy with the alternatives. Is that coyness from a lack of knowledge, or just a lie to push people away from a 60 year (?) old product to your own? Either way, it instills no confidence in me to buy from you.'
*
I did the first tutorial on disinfection because I realised that a lot of people were doing it in a haphazard way and suggested using the Rapid Release tablets, unfortunately they can only be purchased in bulk which meant they were unavailable to everyone in the motor home fraternity. Having worked in the water industry for many years I purchased a batch and offered them to motor homers, caravaners etc. at a price which covers overheads and I believe that it is the cheapest method of disinfection available Milton is the same stuff but a lot more expensive. I am told constantly by my wife to 'give it up its more trouble than it's worth', but I have done it for a service rather than a profit and it does get people to my website so if that self promotion I am guilty; but coyness, no, I have always contributed honestly and with good intentions.
The lack of knowledge is one I don't understand whatever knowledge I have I have willingly shared it with all the members on this forum and spent many hours doing it (again I am constantly reminded!). I also was hands-on on the subject and taught it up and down the country for a number of years, so yes I think I know a fair amount but not everything.
If I come across as pushing people away from any other product please accept that it is not for profit but to save people money using the same product at a much lower price.
Yes Milton is old but chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) which it contains has been around a lot longer it is one of the halogens two others being iodine and bromide but they could not be used for disinfection for obvious reasons. It was first used in 1850 By Dr. John Snow to disinfect a pump in London to prevent cholera. Standard disinfection with chlorine began around the turn of the last century and played a major part in reducing typhoid. So the basic product has been around long before Milton decided to apply a brand name to it and introduce it to baby hygiene. As for lies (and this hurt the most) what would I have to gain by telling lies? My tutorials are an open book I even suggest using household bleach for the grey tanks but I do remind people of the dangers. If you have read my stuff on the subject and you are still not convinced then please buy the product that ticks all your boxes I will not mind at all.
I have thought about these things long and hard including some loss of sleep. I have thought MHF has lost its way a little last year and I have come across some people who don't seem very nice, true the world is full of individuals. However, I don't have to put myself up as an aunt sally for others to throw rocks at when my objective was to help others. This latest episode is the last straw, so sadly I won't be renewing my membership when it expires next week.

I would like to thank all those genuine people and friends who I have had the pleasure to converse with over the past 8 or so years, I will still regard you as my friends and you can always reach me through my blog.

All the very best to you all,

Graham


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## Penquin

Like many other people I have read Graham's posts with great interest whenever they appear. His knowledge of his subject is very clear to me and has been for a considerable time - and my degree was in chemistry and biology, and I teach both subjects, biology to A level and chemistry to GCSE level, so I have a working knowledge of chemicals and the importance of sterilisation.

I was very saddened to read his post above and sincerely hope that what he has said will not come to fruition - having him as a contributor and resource on MHF is, I believe, of great value to all of us.

I can totally understand his comments about the amount of time taken to ensure both that the information he has shared is accurate and his resourcing of materials at, literally, cost price.

Calculating the active strength of free chlorine in a solution is not for the light-hearted and is fraught with problems unless you have the resources of a well equipped chemistry laboratory available.

On a personal basis, I ONCE tried using Milton and discovered the problem of an unknown concentration of chlorine VERY quickly; problems that I was not able to resolve for a long time........

As I have said, it is VERY disappointing to read that comments have been made to him as he reports; I cannot understand what benefit could be gained by such action and can sympathise with him and his wife about "_it's not worth the trouble_".

We will all be the losers if he leaves, you may not wish to use his services, but why should that result in others not being able to be aware of his comments and suggestions?

I hope that he will remain a member of MHF, and am sure others will agree me with that view.

Dave


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## Ozzyjohn

Dave, 

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly. 

Graham,

Please stay, you've made the site a better place.


Regards,
John

p.s. I've also overdone it with Milton on an on-board water tank on a previous caravan - not something I would wish on anyone else.


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## 747

I am hesitant to post any info also because of smart alec jibes.

Do we let the lunatics take over the asylum?

Well we do if we walk away.

Spit in their eye is my way.

I aint going nowhere.


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## Zebedee

What a nasty and quite un-necessary PM to send to Zappy.

OK whoever you are . . . so you are unconvinced and you don't want to buy his tablets, but is it really necessary insult the bloke like that, and in such a cowardly way via PM.

Just don't buy the bloody tablets for goodness sake!!!

I have had the same experience with Milton as Penquin. Foul tasting water for months after cleaning the tank. Never again!!!

That doesn't make Milton a crap product. It just means that it is totally unsuitable for sterilising my water tank.

Don't let one unpleasant character put you off MHF Zappy. Most of us are pretty decent folk.

Dave


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## Techno100

I use Graham's tablets also and why not? Very cheap, totally effective, great service! His blog's are top notch 8) and a great contribution to any forum.


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## Zebedee

As an aside - How did you manage to thanks me twice Techno?

It shouldn't be possible.

To test the system I tried to thank you twice in return - but (sadly) it said you only deserve one thanks . . . . . or words to that effect! :lol: :lol: 

Dave


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## Techno100

Dunno Dave? it's a glitch in the system that happens some times :lol:

Subs'l aftoo go up to fix it :?

Zeb Note. Please accept the "thanks" I owe you! (Hate to be in debt!) :lol: :lol:


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## Tricky2

How sad that a few people upset so many on this forum. I find it a wonderful source of information, and contiributors like Graham make this the best Motorhome info site.
Graham I do hope you can try to forgive the ungrateful amongst us and remain a member.
I have sent a PM not to moan but to place an order.
Rick


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## barryd

Graham

I am sorry that someone has upset you when you were clearly trying to offer me advice. You clearly know what your talking about and this post has certainly saved me from probably flipantly chucking a bottle of Milton in the tank thus rendering it undrinkable for the foreseable future. I and I am sure the majority of people who have read this thread are now better informed and now know that you have a solution that will work without leaving a horrid taste afterwards.

Please, please consider staying as a member. This site needs informed and helpful contributers like yourself. As 747 rightly says dont let the lunatics take over the asylum! 

I love the banter on here and the arguments can be funny but sending a PM like that is really not on and if the poster had something to say he should have done it openly.

I dont know what I would do without the advice on here as everyweek I seem to have one drama or another to sort out!

Im using the mobile version of the site at the moment and there is no thanks button but I would like to say a big thankyou to everyone who has contributed especially Graham.

Regards
Barry


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## bigbazza

Please stay Graham, your product is very cheap and works so well, it couldn't be easier to use. I to went down the Milton route only to taste it for months after.
I have never ever found you more than friendly and helpful, you don't go overboard trying to sell your excellent product.
If you leave then it would be our loss.

I still can't believe that someone would PM you with such obvious ill informed comments, I'm sure it would be very upsetting because of the personal nature of PM's.

Please re-consider your intentions and don't give the person responsible the satisfaction.

Barry


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## zappy61

*Zappy is staying*

Hi All,

Well I am well and truly surprised by all the messages of support, and having thought it over for a couple of days I think you are right; why give that nasty person the satisfaction. So I have decided to stay.
I can't name every individual for their kind words of support, but may I say a very big thankyou to you all.

Regards,

Graham


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## Penquin

*Re: Zappy is staying*



zappy61 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well I am well and truly surprised by all the messages of support, and having thought it over for a couple of days I think you are right; why give that nasty person the satisfaction. So I have decided to stay.
> I can't name every individual for their kind words of support, but may I say a very big thankyou to you all.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Graham


Like many, I am pleased that you have become aware that there is a great deal of support on MHF and that you have decided to continue on here. 

As you are well aware, I have not used the products that you supply (yet :? )but am pleased that others have found you to be helpful and easily approached - such is the measure of people and companies that we all like to deal with for whatever we wish. 

I hope that you will be able to resolve your differences, or at least set them aside, with the person that has a different point of view for whatever reason - such difficulties are best sorted out via PM rather than through public actions IMO.  Fortunately Wikileaks does not operate on MHF :lol: so PM's will NOT suddenly appear as the days headlines! 

I am sure that both of you have strongly held views and that both of you believe fervently that your viewpoint is the correct one and that you may have to agree to differ in the interests of involvement on here. I KNOW that there are some people who do not welcome, or believe, my viewpoint on some topics or situations but hopefully any such differences can be tolerated - such a situation is bound to happen every now and then between individuals of differing backgrounds, experiences and expectations. 8O

It is great to see you on here and I am sure that many people value your input most highly as being helpful for the problems that they encounter with their water supply! 

Dave


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## zappy61

*Re: Zappy is staying*



Penquin said:


> zappy61 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Well I am well and truly surprised by all the messages of support, and having thought it over for a couple of days I think you are right; why give that nasty person the satisfaction. So I have decided to stay.
> I can't name every individual for their kind words of support, but may I say a very big thankyou to you all.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Graham
> 
> 
> 
> Like many, I am pleased that you have become aware that there is a great deal of support on MHF and that you have decided to continue on here.
> 
> As you are well aware, I have not used the products that you supply (yet :? )but am pleased that others have found you to be helpful and easily approached - such is the measure of people and companies that we all like to deal with for whatever we wish.
> 
> I hope that you will be able to resolve your differences, or at least set them aside, with the person that has a different point of view for whatever reason - such difficulties are best sorted out via PM rather than through public actions IMO.  Fortunately Wikileaks does not operate on MHF :lol: so PM's will NOT suddenly appear as the days headlines!
> 
> I am sure that both of you have strongly held views and that both of you believe fervently that your viewpoint is the correct one and that you may have to agree to differ in the interests of involvement on here. I KNOW that there are some people who do not welcome, or believe, my viewpoint on some topics or situations but hopefully any such differences can be tolerated - such a situation is bound to happen every now and then between individuals of differing backgrounds, experiences and expectations. 8O
> 
> It is great to see you on here and I am sure that many people value your input most highly as being helpful for the problems that they encounter with their water supply!
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
Many thanks for your comments. So far as I am concerned the matter is closed, draw a line and move on wiser for the experience and I harbor no grudges. I have said a few times before, when in this type of communication its not what you say but how you say it. I always respect the opposite viewpoint that's what many people died for, but care is required when making accusations that are without foundation.

Many thanks,

Graham


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## Daedalas

Good Morning Zappy61 and All

I am appalled that you should be so abused as reported: what a miserable cowardly way.

I am one - and I suspect one of many - who has benefited from your knowledge. You honed your knowledge towards the specific needs of this community - how to keep our motorhomes sweet and I was impressed and most grateful.

As a caravanner we sterilised with Milton for years and put up with the residual taste: that was until in our last caravan which for some reason and I suppose it was a function of dosage and new pipe materials, I just couldn't get rid of the taste for several weeks.

When we upgraded to a MH I did some research. That was when I discovered your website through this forum and I learned so much from you. I bought for about £5 enough tablets to sterilise a good few times [I still have some in the van]. They are so easy to use and so easy to get the right level and having done so we have had absolutely no taste issue!

Thank you most sincerely for making your knowledge and for offering the product at a very reasonable price.

I am deeply ashamed that any member of such a hugely helpful community as MHF could fall so miserably low and also to fail to grasp what you have so generously done for the whole community ... and abuse you or your good will. 
I'm delighted you have been so well supported and decided to stay.


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## max0603

Chin up Zappy don't let 'em grind you down! Just put an order in, keep up the good work.


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## barryd

Glad your staying Graham. Good news


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## zappy61

Hi All,

Just renewed my membership. Once again thank you all so very much for your good wishes it is really is appreciated. Hope you are having a good time in France Barry, and the crisis is now over.

Regards,

Graham


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