# Diesel warning



## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't know if this has been covered before but, be warned, all diesel now has a percentage of bio diesel in it. This is ok if you use your vehicle on a daily basis but if you don't, and it stands for a week or three, you could have a problem. Bio diesel has living microbes in it and when left to stand the microbiological activity can make the fuel thicken and thereby block injectors and pumps. I have spoken to several (good) mechanics, both Fiat and others, and they have all seen this happen. They tell me the only way to avoid the problem is to run the engine at least twice a week for at least 10 mins. Yet another environmental benefit!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Womble

Thanks for this - I think! 8O 8O 8O 

I'm not doubting you, but it's the first I've heard of this.

Are you sure it's not another urban myth?

I hope it is!! What a pain in the bum for anyone who stores their truck away from home, and what happens if you go on holiday for a month . . . by air??

Dave


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Hi Womble
> 
> Thanks for this - I think! 8O 8O 8O
> 
> ...


Not a myth Dave, I've just suffered it. Lucky though as the mechanic managed to get it to clear by injecting something (wouldn't tell me what) into the fuel line and then revved the nuts off it for a few mins. He reckons it's the 4th or 5th one he's seen. He also said he has seen several vehicles that have been run on pure bio fuel and they have all suffered major problems with seal failure in the pumps!


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi, I have never heard of this and another thing I cannot get to grips with is how running the engine for ten minutes a week does anything in the tank where the diesel is stored and where it would obviously thicken, At first reading I thought, Ahh it stirs the diesel up through a return pipe, Just been out to look at mine and not a return pipe so the diesel would not be disturbed. 

I could be wrong  :roll: :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks again Womble.

Is there an on/off switch for "_progress_"??? 8O 8O

I don't think I want to be a member of that club any longer!! :roll: :roll:

Dave


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## maxautotrail (Aug 21, 2007)

Apparently both Shell and BP have begun mixing bio-components to some of their nationwide fuel stations to a maximum ratio of 5%.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

OldWomble said:


> I don't know if this has been covered before but, be warned, all diesel now has a percentage of bio diesel in it. This is ok if you use your vehicle on a daily basis but if you don't, and it stands for a week or three, you could have a problem. Bio diesel has living microbes in it and when left to stand the microbiological activity can make the fuel thicken and thereby block injectors and pumps. I have spoken to several (good) mechanics, both Fiat and others, and they have all seen this happen. They tell me the only way to avoid the problem is to run the engine at least twice a week for at least 10 mins. Yet another environmental benefit!


_

Sounds like a myth to me, I would like to see microbes that could cope with the bio-diesel manufacturing process.

There may of course be another quite separate effect that could explain OldWomble's problem._


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

SaddleTramp said:


> Hi, I have never heard of this and another thing I cannot get to grips with is how running the engine for ten minutes a week does anything in the tank where the diesel is stored and where it would obviously thicken, At first reading I thought, Ahh it stirs the diesel up through a return pipe, Just been out to look at mine and not a return pipe so the diesel would not be disturbed.
> 
> I could be wrong  :roll: :roll:


It seems that the problem is not so much in the tank but the residue of fuel in the pump and injectors. By running the engine for a few mins you clear this residue before (hopefully) the build-up gets to be a problem. I have also been told that fuel purchased from out-of-the-way garages could be far worse as it is not so fresh due to lower turnover. To me this seems a little bit of a contradiction but I can only report what the 'experts' tell me!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Very Interesting :lol: 
We do smoke when we start up and after a few rev's it clears (is this because the fuel has thickened)
We have been parked up several times in Spain the longest being 1 month and Ray kept saying on the way home we seem sluggish, but that did clear and the engine picked up, but not until we got nearer to the tunnel.
We had filled up about 4 times (when we got to half a tank) on the way home so maybe we had flushed out the tank by then.
Mavis


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi again

I think the problem may be lack of skepticism!! (At least, I hope it is 8O :? .)

One expert says, _"I think X *might *be caused by Y"._

This is passed on by the next expert who says, _"X *is* caused by Y"._

A *theory *has suddenly become an irrevocable *fact *in two easy moves!!

(Read a few history books for some absolute classics!!)

Dave


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Bio Diesel*

Whilst at the Garage having our Van MOT'd and Serviced I noticed a fairly new KIA People Carrier in the corner of the yard well into the process of engine out. 
As my son has such a vehicle I asked what the problems were.

I was advised the owner had been recovered from the South of France after inadvertantly filling the KIA with BIO diesel.

The Garage had partly stripped the car and were awaiting insurers instruction. They claim they were considering writing the car off.

Steve


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

Sounds like a myth to me, I would like to see microbes that could cope with the bio-diesel manufacturing process.



Trouble is Frank, they are so dammed small you'd need hellishly good eyesight to see the little beggers!


There may of course be another quite separate effect that could explain OldWomble's problem.

Idea's on the back of a post card please...


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi Mavis, No I don't think that is the problem as I have been running diesels since way before bio fuels came out and Diesels have always smoked when first started, I think that is due to the fact that pure diesel is being used as combustion and not preheated.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: Bio Diesel*



pneumatician said:


> Whilst at the Garage having our Van MOT'd and Serviced I noticed a fairly new KIA People Carrier in the corner of the yard well into the process of engine out.
> As my son has such a vehicle I asked what the problems were.
> 
> I was advised the owner had been recovered from the South of France after inadvertantly filling the KIA with BIO diesel.
> ...


Ha Ha, I think there may be a small problem here, I have a mate who owns a chip shop, He also owns a Kia Sorento, All he uses is bio diesel for it, Smells like a chip shop but it runs as good as on diesel.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

SaddleTramp said:


> Hi Mavis, No I don't think that is the problem as I have been running diesels since way before bio fuels came out and Diesels have always smoked when first started, I think that is due to the fact that pure diesel is being used as combustion and not preheated.


Ahhh thanks for that.
So it might just have been the Pyraneese that knackered the old girl.
I have already said elsewhere it iwas like Thomas the Tank (I think I can I think I can ) up that steep Mountain Pass.
  
Mavis


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

locovan said:


> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Mavis, No I don't think that is the problem as I have been running diesels since way before bio fuels came out and Diesels have always smoked when first started, I think that is due to the fact that pure diesel is being used as combustion and not preheated.
> ...


 :lol: You could be right.

But you should use the OLD expression ie, My motorhome is a rare commodity, It is a Rolls Canhardly, = It rolls downhill but can hardly get up em.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Thats one advantage of having one of they old fashioned tractor type Diesel engines then !!!

Rotary mechanical pump as opposed to one of they "newfangled" motors wot has electro-conical injector thingies" 

The old tracta engine did my granpappy fine and there baint be no reason to change fur the sake of it I says, OOOOO ARRRRRRR 

Seriously though I do find this a bit hard to believe, surely the fuel manufacturers would be aware of any such problem and either do something to combat it (like put some form of bug killer in the fuel, they already put anti gel stuff in to stop it going waxy in very cold weather) or advertise the fact so everyone is aware of it. 

I reckon its an urban myth. (but I am not THAT sure!!)


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

In my opinion this is a myth.
a) Bio diesel is not created using microbes, it is a chemical reaction
b) Bio Diesel can thicken at lower temperatures. This is why for example in SVO powered vehicles you will find a pre-heater. This is nothing to do with microbial action though it is purely temperature. With BioDiesel only being mixed at 5% currently it will have negligable impact on the viscosity of the overall fuel mix.
c) There would have been major research by the Petrochemical companies regarding any such issue and additives would have been created to prevent it.

Answer Directly from BP

Karl
Edit to add link:


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## wozzy (Jan 3, 2009)

Last year I ran my transit pickup on a mix of diesel and transformer oil from a oil cooled wealnding plant I scrapped. It worked very well untill the ewather got cold and I began to have the excelerator sticking slightly for a short while until the engine warmed up a little. This we put down to waxing up fuel and stopped for the cold period. 

But I do remember well back in the 70's when the cold weather began to bite a gallon of petrol was added to the diesel on filling to help with the problem of diesel waxing up this had no effect on the engine at all. However as the mechanic at the garage said to me on the subject mixing fuels, that the older types of injectors are more likely to cope with bio fuel use without any modification.

I for one would like to try more bio-fuel mixes in the future..


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

gromett said:


> In my opinion this is a myth.
> a) Bio diesel is not created using microbes, it is a chemical reaction
> b) Bio Diesel can thicken at lower temperatures. This is why for example in SVO powered vehicles you will find a pre-heater. This is nothing to do with microbial action though it is purely temperature. With BioDiesel only being mixed at 5% currently it will have negligable impact on the viscosity of the overall fuel mix.
> c) There would have been major research by the Petrochemical companies regarding any such issue and additives would have been created to prevent it.
> ...


I would agree with everything you say except for the fact that two different Fiat Commercial engineers have told me that this is something they now look for and the fact that the mechanic that came out started the engine (it would start but not rev) and then injected something into the fuel line and within 2 or 3 mins it was revving properly. He then told me to run it at least one a week, or better still twice, just for a few mins. He obviously knows something we don't!


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

The French have been running on a diesel/biodiesel mix for years and I don't remember seeing 1000's of cars by the roadside suffering from bugs. 

Why, when we don't believe anything else a mechanic says, do would we believe this story about microbes in the tank? Is it the bugs themselves that don't burn or is it their waste products? How fast do they breed? Do they keep you awake at night rumbling about in your tank? 

I will keep an edible hat handy just in case someone comes up with one bit of credible evidence.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

OldWomble said:


> then injected something into the fuel line and within 2 or 3 mins it was revving properly. He then told me to run it at least one a week, or better still twice, just for a few mins. He obviously knows something we don't!


I don't doubt his action or the result I would however debate his theory to the cause. I am not a mechanic and my knowledge of engines is purely theoretical. However could it be either water in your Diesel tank from being stood and squirting something into the fuel line allows the engine to build up a bit of temperature enough to evaporate the water? Alternatively could it be something in the fuel line partially blocking the injectors and the spray loosens this up?

As a previous poster noted in France and elsewhere they have been using B95 mix for some time now and you don't see thousands of cars broken down. The PetroChemical companies and auto makers would have noticed by now and done something about it.

The most likely cause is something that is not common to every other vehicle.

When I park my van up for long periods of times (Almost two years this time) I ensure that the Tank is full to the top to prevent condensation in the tank. I know that's a much debated theory also but condensation makes much more sense to me than microbes.

BTW: My van was stood for 20 months without being started once. Started up on first turn no messing 

Karl.

PS: I ran my van on 100% SVO during the petrol station blockades some time back. I wiped ASDA out of it >.<


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

gromett said:


> In my opinion this is a myth.
> a) Bio diesel is not created using microbes, it is a chemical reaction
> b) Bio Diesel can thicken at lower temperatures. This is why for example in SVO powered vehicles you will find a pre-heater. This is nothing to do with microbial action though it is purely temperature. With BioDiesel only being mixed at 5% currently it will have negligable impact on the viscosity of the overall fuel mix.
> c) There would have been major research by the Petrochemical companies regarding any such issue and additives would have been created to prevent it.
> Karl


You're right - another case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Not quite a myth but almost. I'll try and explain.

1) Biodiesel is not the same as vegetable oil. A chemical process turns on into the other.
2) It is EU law that a certain amount of biofuel is in your diesel. You can put up to 5% bio product into diesel without declaring as "biodiesel"
3) Bio product in diesel in small quantities is desirable since it is an excellent lubricant and reduces the need for expensive lubricity improvers which are needed for the ULSD products being sold
4) Pure biodiesel (B100) is not normally used - it both destroys the seals on modern engines and has really lousy cold properties - cold filter plugging point is high. Ask Cleveland USA city buses!
5) Biodiesel on sale in the world is normally B20 which is 20% biofuel and found to be the most acceptable compromise. Other ratios are available
6) There have always been the possibility of bugs in fuels. Both Jet fuels and diesels. It is frequently exacerbated by the presence of water under the fuel. The bacteria multiply and feed producing sulphurous compunds as a by product. Buggy fuel will always smell slightly of bad eggs. If the diesel is well kept and under dry conditions in tankage, it has a long shelf life. gasoline will deteriorate and form gums, which is another story.
7) You won't get the bugs clogging things up. They aren't that big and neither are their waste products

I can only speculate that the Kia with the engine out had been running a modern common rail engine on some old "biodiesel" purchased on the side. Vehicle manufacturers spend a fortune on testing and re-testing both actual pump fuels and specification fuels to ensure that their engines will run without expensive problems. How do I know? We do this work - both on the fuels and the lubricants

Sorry if it went on a lot but there are no bug problems in fuel unless you leave it lying around for a significant time in wet conditions. All fuel companies are aware of the potential problems and take steps to avoid it happening


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

gromett said:


> When I park my van up for long periods of times (Almost two years this time) I ensure that the Tank is full to the top to prevent condensation in the tank. I know that's a much debated theory also but condensation makes much more sense to me than microbes.


You're right - two reasons to avoid condensation in the tank......... water and possible bugs


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Don't let the Animal Welfare nutters know about Diesel biofuel in our engines containing [& killing off] microbes when we start up 
. . . we'll all be targeted as murderers :?

I use a bottle of 'FORTE Advanced Formula Diesel Treatment' into the tank once every 6 months . . . the result is VERY noticable and well worth the cost [between £10 / 14] depending where you buy it [I get mine from e-bay] as its not easy to find in garages or car shops


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

gromett said:


> As a previous poster noted in France and elsewhere they have been using B95 mix


My mistake, that should have been B5 the number relates to how much of the mix is Bio Diesel.

Karl


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## tombo5609 (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, If you talk to any marine engineer you will find that microbe contamination in marine diesel is an ongoing problem and manifests itself as a grey sludge that blocks filters. It is kept at bay by putting tablets into the fuel tanks on a regular basis. Dont ask me what was in the tablets as I was a "deckie" and did not get involved in such matters!!!.
Many years ago when I run an old Merc diesel I aquired some of the fuel oil of the ship and the consequence was that about a month later my car came to a slow halt and refused to start. even cleaning all the filters only allowed it to run for a short time: It is a living virus and just multiplies. I have never apart from this post heard of it happening to anyone else but head the warning. Tom


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

I started my van yesterday for the first time for 3 months (Iknow). Started first time. Does this disprove the theory?


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## grout20 (Aug 28, 2006)

Hi again

I'm a 6 month SORN-er and MH Storer myself, so I'm interested in this thread *(thanks for posting, OldWomble)*

So ... while the discussion goes on ... the tips appear to be:-

*1.* ... if you have to store your MH it's best to keep the tank FULL

*2.* ... if you store BP/Sainsbury etc diesel in a storage container keep that FULL and container top AIRTIGHT.

*3.* ... run the engine every few weeks.. (Presumably for a "long run" to minimise other battery, engine, condensation etc problems?

Anyone agree/disagree with above?

cheers
john

...something ELSE to worry about now .... thick diesel! :roll:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

tombo5609 said:


> Hi, If you talk to any marine engineer you will find that microbe contamination in marine diesel is an ongoing problem and manifests itself as a grey sludge that blocks filters. It is kept at bay by putting tablets into the fuel tanks on a regular basis. Dont ask me what was in the tablets as I was a "deckie" and did not get involved in such matters!!!.
> Many years ago when I run an old Merc diesel I aquired some of the fuel oil of the ship and the consequence was that about a month later my car came to a slow halt and refused to start. even cleaning all the filters only allowed it to run for a short time: It is a living virus and just multiplies. I have never apart from this post heard of it happening to anyone else but head the warning. Tom


But that is the stuff living at a diesel water boundary layer and nothing to do with Bio-Diesel.


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Bio Diesel*

Ha Ha, I think there may be a small problem here, I have a mate who owns a chip shop, He also owns a Kia Sorento, All he uses is bio diesel for it, Smells like a chip shop but it runs as good as on diesel.

Saddletramp, Perhaps this could be the problem not enough Fish Oil in the oil.

Steve


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Thanks Frank - that's what I was going to say. 

There is a huge difference in spec between marine diesel and the stuff we all put in our vans (Marine fuels are ISO8217). However, Tombo has a point and this serves to demonstrate why the refiners take precautions to keep the water bottoms out of their tanks.

Another point is that there might well be a noticeable debris build up in ships service and day tanks since they are typically 90 m3 rather than your Fiat's 90 litres..........


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> But that is the stuff living at a diesel water boundary layer and nothing to do with Bio-Diesel.


Isn't it great that a thread that starts off warning about retail sales of biodiesel gets transformed into being about marine diesel. 
Chinese whispers abound.

As an aside, we suffered from an exceptionally high tide plus river flooding once in the boatyard and the partially buried diesel tank was lifted off its seating, rupturing the pipe to the pump as it went. With a couple of tons of diesel spilling out before we could close the valve we contacted the environmental agency (SEPA) for advice. 
The advice was to go and buy a bag of fertiliser to spread around the contaminated earth. This apparently would feed the bugs already there and they in turn would eat and render the diesel harmless!

Yum, yum.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

If you read the posts properly you would see that we are referring to the biodiesel and the bug problem and giving a fuller explanation.

next time I won't bother


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

I thought DuxDelux made his points extremely well. Sounds like he knows what you are on about please so please don't stop posting.
What is your background please?

Franks points on Marine diesel were also good (As per usual) I wanted to post something similar but not knowledgeable enough on the subject to put it succinctly. 

I stand by my original opinion that it is highly unlikely that microbes in the diesel are the cause of the problem the OP had. Starting your engine every couple of days is not only unnecessary it may possibly cause damage if you don't actually drive it. I seem to recall that Cylinder Glazing can occur in a diesel that is run but not put under load.

Johns 3 points seem like reasonable advice although I don't bother with item 3 myself.

Thanks for starting an interesting thread Oldwomble 

Karl


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I am confused run diesel cars and vans for years.
Never had a problem even with miil mh which rests for months over winter.
EHU fitted permanently so battries always charged.

Think i wil bug gar off now and see if she will start up.

Dave P


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

> Thanks for starting an interesting thread Oldwomble
> 
> Karl


Blimey it's grown some legs since I last looked at it!!!

The more I'm looking, the more I'm finding and it does not add up. I have just seen the handbook for one make of diesel engined car and it say's "This warranty will be invalidated if bio diesel is used". Hmmm interesting... I have also just spoken to a guy who has been running on chip fat for over a year and no problems (apart from the smell) reported. What the hell is going on? The only difference that I can see between the two is the age of the vehicle. It's the old one (pre 1990) that is running on bio... I have a feeling this thread may go on a bit. Sorry all.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> If you read the posts properly you would see that we are referring to the biodiesel and the bug problem and giving a fuller explanation.
> 
> next time I won't bother





> I thought DuxDelux made his points extremely well. Sounds like he knows what you are on about please so please don't stop posting.
> What is your background please?


Discussing marine diesel has no bearing on the subject of biodiesel, hence my comments.

I also thought he made the point well and was adding to his in that the poster who took us off into marine diesel may not have realised that biodiesel as sold at the pumps and marine diesel supplied at bunkering are 2 very different animals and the bugs therein are also different animals.

I thought it a good juncture to show how a totally irrelevant topic (marine diesel) could take over the thread with explanations of what it contained.

Dear me we are a touchy lot!

I will PM my background since it would not be of interest to the majority.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Aultymer, I Wasn't having a go at you  I was just asking DuxDelux not to stop posting as his post seemed to be well informed.

No insult intended here but was curious as to DuxDelux's background not yours :? Curious due to him quoting quite a few details that makes him sound like he is in that trade? If that is the case we can add some weight to his statements 

Karl


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Our van starts and runs no problem after being stood for 4 weeks.

What to dealers do with there stock. Many M/H Cars and Vans can be stood around for ages, dealers dont seem to have too much of a problem.

Then what about new vehicles, next to no derv in then and stood in a compound for months on end?


I can not and would not start our van twice a week unless I was using it.


Richard...


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Richard, I just mentioned my van had been stood for over 20 months and started on first go 

I think the condensation problem is one that builds up over time. I don't know whether diesel is heavier or lighter than water but one will float over the other and the pipe going into the tank is not right at the bottom of the tank so for the time that vehicles are stood on the forecourt I can't see it becoming an issue.

I just leave my tank full as a precaution as I was leaving it stood for many months including a summer. I have not seen any documented proof that condensation occurs but it does make some kind of sense? I really ought to have thought about the tyres as well lol but thats another can of worms.

Going back to the diesel microbes. I have done some serious googling on the subject :roll: and wikipedia has this 
It does mention microbes breeding in the water fuel interface and breaking off and blocking fuel lines. *However* they state that a biocide treatment needs to be added to the tank each time it is filled until the problem is resolved it doesn't mention it being an instant fix. The other option is to remove the water as the microbes live in the water not the Diesel. Also this does not mention it is related directly to Bio Diesel so it appears that any Diesel can be the food.

From what I can make out these microbes will breed in any Diesel where there is water present. Getting rid of the water will resolve the issue or using a biocide.

If this was your problem OldWomble then I guess you need to get rid of the water in your tank :wink:

Karl


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Yay, found a PDF by Shell relating to this issue.
shell.pdf

Definitely a water issue but not as I first surmised and it is not restricted to biodiesel.

A more succint version from shell direct
Karl


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Well done gromett,
I could see this issue developing as the gassing threads do.



Dave P


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Give it time Dave - the evening shift will be on soon! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Dave


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Bio Diesel*



SaddleTramp said:


> pneumatician said:
> 
> 
> > Whilst at the Garage having our Van MOT'd and Serviced I noticed a fairly new KIA People Carrier in the corner of the yard well into the process of engine out.
> ...


'Do your chips taste funny?' 'A bit, the bloke said its the orgasms in the tank'


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> Give it time Dave - the evening shift will be on soon! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave


Who will be guaranteed to read the first few posts only and then start discussing the biodiesel virus problem


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

As mentioned earlier,I think this could be a waxing problem.I believe an anti- wax is used in winter diesel fuel to prevent the problem.Could it be that people fill up in summer with summer fuel,then not use their vehicle for a few months and when they come to start up the fuel is waxed due to the cold.
Just a thought.


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## tombo5609 (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, Can i just say one last thing (for me) regarding bringing up of marine diesel.
I am sure other people are better qualified than myself regarding the technical aspect of the subject but as an old seadog I can assure you that it is a serious problem at sea. The contamination can happen just by taking fuel from a bad supply.
We are not talking about a few gallons but I would take on board a 1000t at a time.
Daily service tanks are cleaned on a daily basis and filters are changed and cleaned weekly but still the problem exsists. How many motorists take this level of care. The reason for this is obvious. If my motorhome engine gives up the ghost I call the AA. If a ships engine stops you start lowering the lifeboats
Diesel fuel is diesel fuel and the only difference between marine and commercial diesel is the level of refinement.


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## 38Rover (Nov 9, 2006)

Send reinforcements we are going to advance
Became
Send three and fourpence we are going to a dance


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Diesel fuel is diesel fuel and the only difference between marine and commercial diesel is the level of refinement.


Er, well yes, and that is why it has no relevance to a thread on higher refined road fuel not in contact with water in any great amount (saline or otherwise). Some people are very selective or careless readers and the introduction of marine fuel problems might be mistaken for something that can affect road fuel. There is enough scaremongering without adding problems which cannot occur.

Water is water and the only difference is the degree of treatment! but I have some here you wouldnt want to drink. :lol:


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

If anyone is interested the subject in question happens to be a part of my job for a company (turnover $5B per annum) which amongst other things carries out considerable testing of all types of fuels worldwide. I have a particular interest in marine fuels since I lead the group's global business in this field.

The comparison between diesel fuel and marine diesel IS relevant since as I pointed out there is a difference in scale, but to keep Auldtymer happy I will not post anything more on this subject.

Why can't people have an aimiable discussion about an interesting and relevant subject without being shot down by someone with apparently nothing better to do?


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Just for info I haven't used mineral diesel for a number of years now, using 100% Biodiesel. I'm currently running it in a Pump Duse (High Pressure) VW engine for a year now, and in a common rail Renault more recently.

The myth about BD clogging filters, is due to the fact that the BD strips out (acting as a solvent) the rubbish left by the diesel and that is what blocks filters, although I change them every 6 months anyway and have never had this problem.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

duxdeluxe said:



> Why can't people have an aimiable discussion about an interesting and relevant subject without being shot down by someone with apparently nothing better to do?


Its just that duxdeluxe, they have nothing better to do.

For what its worth both my Fiat MPV and Peugeot MH run a lot better on BP desiel than the cheaper supermarket brands,their must be a reason for the increased engine performance but what is it?

Any way a very interesting debate

Take care Les :wink: :wink:


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## 119961 (Jan 30, 2009)

*deisal*

Is this just another way of getting us off the road by those in power?
The more we try to better the eco of the world it would seem some toss-pot throws another spanner in the works to make it worse...

Hope it is all just a myth.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

*Re: deisal*



Hasku1106 said:


> Hope it is all just a myth.


Didn't you see my post?

Direct From BP and YES it is a myth about Bio Diesel

It affects ALL diesel where water is present. So if you have this problem it is not because you used bio diesel it's because you have water in your tank.

Karl


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

At least there's two of us!! Cheers.

Just having a discussion with our global lab manager about this over a cuppa........ he also made the point that if unprocessed veg oil is used and its used stuff from Fred's chippy or Patel's pappadoms then you might find a higher level of potential bacterial contamination due to its previous purpose but you still need the water to be there........

Edit - the above link refers to marine fuels and quantities in the tonnes range rather than the litres range as I previously referred. Marine diesel filters need more regular cleaning than car/van ones since the fuel can be somewhat "cruddier" than the stuff you get from the pumps.

Apologies for deviating and mentioning marine fuels again.


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