# Views on Concorde Charisma



## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm new to the forum but I'd appreciate the views of any Charisma owners out there.

We have run a Concorde Credo 7.55 on the Mercedes chassis for the last three years but are now thinking about "trading up" to a Charisma on the Iveco chassis 65C18 and 8.98m (the 890LS I believe).

I noted some older posts on the forum concerning problems with the 6 Speed Transmission and I wonder if these problems are very widespread.

We are looking at a low mileage 2009 example and so expect the vehicle to be in very good order.....but really appreciate any tips on things to check or look out for...

Don


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hi
I think some people were not very happy with the Iveco agile automatic gearbox, however there was an upgrade and people were saying it was much better after this.

Can you not get it on the Merc chassis? although much harder to find. We did see a lovely Concorde Liner, the smallest Liner of the range on a merc at a showroom in Germany a couple of years ago, beautiful.

Paul.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks Paul,

I read conflicting reports about the Agile gearbox....but I think you are right that it is the older ones that were more problematic.

Since the machine I am looking at is 2009 I hope it is OK.

I think the Charisma used to be available on Mercedes but I believe all the newer one are on Iveco.

The auto box on my Mercedes Credo is a normal auto so this "Agile" version in the Charisma may take some getting used to - I have not been able to drive it yet...

Cheers,

Don


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

We have owned a Charisma for the last 6 years and 45000 miles, the Iveco box is not perfect, gear changes are not always perfect, it is too slow at changing down on hills and it is not good for manoeuvring especially on uphill slopes as it slips the clutch too much resulting in that nasty smell. Having said that it is liveable with. Having said that we have not found anything better.

My other gripe is the front suspension, the torsion bars are not firm enough and the front end can be very bouncy on bumpy roads, it used to hit the bump stops but that has not occurred since I changed to Koni shock absorbers. The latest Iveco chassis can now be converted to full air suspension which should greatly improve the ride.

To us the big bonus of the Charisma is the large shower room as we prefer if possible not to use sites and prefer not to us site facilities.

With us both having a shower every day we last from 5 to 7 days between emptying the tanks.

One other point to watch is the back axle and gearbox oil needs changing more frequently if you do less than 18000 km a year.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks for these tips. The version I am looking at has rear air suspension...but I will ask about the front shocks.

Completely agree with your views on the shower area - its the main reason we want to trade up from our Credo.

Cheers,

Don


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have a bad knee and wanted an automatic but could not find any used ones so I ended up with the manual gearbox. And it really is not a problem. My nightmare situation would be driving in rush traffic having to clutch all the time. But since I have this nice home on wheels I just stop and wait until the traffic ease up. 

Another point is take care of your batteries. The previous owner of my van killed his batteries in 3 years. So I got new ones when I bought it. I belive he used the inverter too much and frequently wore the batteries too far down.


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## Crindle (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi all.........our Charisma is on the Mercedes 616CDi with true automatic transmission, uprated to 6.5 ton. We believe that it was one of the last on this chassis to leave the Concorde factory in 2006. Great pity IMO, we would have certainly changed the van had the Mercedes option still been available, in the main due to the suspect Agile gearbox on the Iveco base. A friend has become an owner of a Charisma/Iveco circa 2007 in the past couple of years. Total failure of the Agile during a long (not steep) climb in slow traffic. Gear box replaced under warranty, no evidence of any wear or burning on the clutch plates. Exhaustive queries with Iveco due to his concern that could similar happen on the new replacement unit. Iveco technical state that the manufacturers of the Agile (not Iveco) are of the opinion that the failures are due to driver error not the design therefore modification is not necessary. This is an ongoing difference of opinion awaiting an outcome. Finally re the Charisma, great van, outstanding build and thermal qualities, just a couple of gripes, as with all German interiors not loungy enough, hard unforgiving seating. Towing limited to 750Kg due to the auto gear box although I have seen Concorde/Auto Mercs. pulling well above 750Kg............Crindle.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks Christine and Crindle.

I think the Charisma is terrific, I just wish I felt better about the Agile box. Our Credo is on the Sprinter chassis with full autobox and is a piece of cake to drive and maneuver - but just too cramped.

I'm looking at the 2009 Charisma in Southdowns and will query them further on their (customers) experiences with the Agile box.

Thanks again for the helpful information,

Don


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Can you let us know Southdowns views on the gearbox?


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

You are getting a bigger, better specced motorhome if you upgrade.

However, you are certainly taking a backward step, getting rid of a Merc full torque converter automatic for an Iveco semi auto.

I would think seriously.

We have just sold 11 days ago, our Hymer S820 on a merc 616 cdi full auto. What a beautiful drive, absoltely bullet proof.

Paul.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Selstrom, I'll let you know the word from Southdowns - but when I discussed it on the telephone they (not surprisingly) cite the commercial pedigree and usage of the Agile box. And (again not surprisingly) they refer to many happy Charisma drivers. But I will go into in more detail with them and let you know the outcome.

Coppo, I am indeed wary of giving up the Credo which is a lovely drive with the Merc autobox - but we really like the interior space of the Charisma. Though the Credo is 7.55m and the Charisma 8.98m, the increase in usable interior space is out of all proportion to the modest length increase. But the driving experience is vital too, so some careful thought needed. I had a short drive in a Carver (same box) and was none too impressed but familiarity will improve the experience I'm sure...


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

DonMacleod said:


> Selstrom, I'll let you know the word from Southdowns - but when I discussed it on the telephone they (not surprisingly) cite the commercial pedigree and usage of the Agile box. And (again not surprisingly) they refer to many happy Charisma drivers. But I will go into in more detail with them and let you know the outcome.
> 
> Coppo, I am indeed wary of giving up the Credo which is a lovely drive with the Merc autobox - but we really like the interior space of the Charisma. Though the Credo is 7.55m and the Charisma 8.98m, the increase in usable interior space is out of all proportion to the modest length increase. But the driving experience is vital too, so some careful thought needed. I had a short drive in a Carver (same box) and was none too impressed but familiarity will improve the experience I'm sure...


Best of luck with your decision.

A word of warning though. A modest length increase you say. A metre and a half is a big increase I feel and will restrict the number of places you can take it, I think yours is the perfect size for long term touring. We have just sold the S820 because of the size at 8.33 metres, I would think carefully, but thats just my opinion.

Maybe hire one that size for a couple of weeks and see if you are limited on sites, roads, stellplatz, aires etc. I know you would be limited regarding quite a few stellplatze in Germany with almost 9 metres, it s a massive leap up in length, even though it may not seem it when you measure out 1.5 metres, believe me it is, just for a bigger shower area. Not trying to put you off, it depends on how you use the van and where you go etc.

Regards

Paul.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Paul,

everything you say rings very true to me! This is not an easy choice at all since I don't want to "overreach" - the Credo is a pleasure for us, but then again greater interior volume would be welcome......I'll let you know the outcome,

Thank again,

Don


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Given the choise again I would still choose the agile gearbox and not the manual. You soon learn when to give it a prod.

Our Charisma is 8.5 m and we have not experienced any major problems with sites or stellplatze, though I would not want a longer MH. Height has been a bigger problem with low trees on sites, we carry extending loppers and a pruning saw.


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Hi Don
We have had our Charisma for nearly 2 years - we bought it as the show vehicle from Dusseldorf. It is the 840 so slightly shorter but does have the agile gearbox and 65C17 chassis. I do think that the term agile may contravene trade descriptions but you do get used to it. It is not always instant when you go to pull away and doesn't always change gear when you would expect or think that it should. 
We have air suspension on the rear only and have had no issues. Our main problems have been with the control panel that controls all the services and in particular the heating. Southdowns have still not got to the bottom of it for us.
We are 6 weeks into a 6 month trip in ours and have to say it is fantastic. There are definite compromises with the size of the van probably more with the height than the length. 
If you have any questions please feel free to pm - we are with friends at the moment before heading to Morocco so have good internet til the weekend.
Sally


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks both Selstrom and Sally.

The question of "size balance" is central to our decision. I am assuming that with familiarity the Agile box will be acceptable, not as good as a full auto, but a reasonable trade off for the increased internal space. But while the increased internal space is desirable, I don't want to overly restrict our ability to explore "at will" as we can with the Credo.

As you say Sally, there will definitely have to be compromises..!! And good luck with your Morocco trip.

Cheers,

Don


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## Burneyinn (Oct 27, 2006)

taz said:


> There are definite compromises with the size of the van probably more with the height than the length.


The height is more a problem than the length, we are 9mtr. Been amazed about how many low trees there are near sites, especially at CS/CLs. Carrying loppers is a good idea!!

Can't comment on the gearbox as we opted for the manual.

Enjoy your search

If you were closer we could meet and have a good chinwag!

I think us Concorde owners could do with a meet


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Just wanted to add a note in conclusion.

We took the plunge and traded in the Credo and collected the Charisma a couple of days ago. Really delighted with the additional internal space and the agile box has been a pleasant surprise, much better (smoother) than an older Carver I tried. Southdowns have reassured that reliability is is really not an issue - lets hope they are right.

The Charisma has a 170 litre fuel tank but the calibration of the fuel gauge is rather odd. When the needle is reading less than a quarter tank remaining (and with the low fuel warning light coming on when on a steep incline), filling the tank results in taking on only 80 litres - less that half of the capacity! I wonder if any other Charisma owners have the same calibration issues?

Thanks again for the advice,

Don


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Ours takes 140 lt to fill when the fuel light has just come on when on the level. When going up long hills the fuel light will come on early then go off on the down hill.

After filling up ours goes 100+ miles before the fuel gauge moves off full!

I hope you enjoy your Charisma, we do.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Ours sees to have the opposite calibration problem. It moves rapidly down to three quarters after traveling only 30miles or so. I think I will reset the trip after each fill up and then use distance covered as the guide. Its just disconcerting to be traveling with the needle sitting so close to empty.

When I did fill up (by only adding 82 litres), the full consumption was 18mpg - excellent I thought for motorway cruising at 55-60mph.

Now really looking forward to some longer trips away...

Don


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

Congratulations, Don!









My Charisma only got the 90L fuel tank. On mine it behaves as it should.


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## Skissunday (Dec 2, 2013)

Hi,

I have a Charisma on Iveco chassis 2012. I don't like the Agile gearbox and generally use it manually around town as its much smoother. I will be getting the engine remapped to increase economy from 16mpg and change gear sooner.

I have had the clutch overheat light come on when parking on the flat in a muddy area. It shouldn't do this, only reversed twice! I don't have much confidence for small steep hills. Time will tell. I think a clutch is £3000.

The Charisma is a great van - you cant have everything!


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

I agree that the Charisma is a terrific vehicle, we upgraded from a Credo and have been pleased with the result. We've had ours just over a year and so far I have no complaints about the Agile box - in fact overall I have found it to perform flawlessly. I am about to book it in for its annual MOT and will ask the garage what sort of experience they have with these boxes.


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## James236 (Sep 19, 2015)

Been dreaming for a long time of retiring and starting motorhome life , the conchord charisma is the motorhome of choice for me the old style 10 year old for approx £50000 is what I would like but the one in auto trader at present is left hand drive 

Has anyone out there got a conchord right hand drive with a fixed rear double bed ?


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Two year ago I started this thread about the Charisma and, in particular, I expressed concern about the 
agile robotised gearbox. Since then I have seen a few others express similar fears and I thought I would just say how pleased I am with the performance of this box. I appreciate that some may have had negative experiences, but just wanted to say that my own experience has been wholly positive and I would certainly make the same choice again. And the Charisma continues to provide us with a fabulous traveling companion....,

Don


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## DBSS (Jun 30, 2013)

Don,


Just wondering how you coped with the additional height on sites. As per previous reports must admit have noticed on more than one European site, the branches do tend to be lower, understandable as it provides the shading often needed. Can you give an idea of mpg on cruise and then again city driving. Yes like you we have seen the Charisma and keep talking about it as a possible replacement for our Comanche.


Ian


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## rogher (Dec 17, 2006)

Iveco is adequate. I’d rather have Merc if possible, though. But, as you’re likely to spend more time living in it than travelling, the base should not be so important.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Ian, our travels are in the UK only so cannot comment on height issues on the continent. But on our travels around the UK the height has never been an issue - other than the obvious need to take care from branches etc when negotiating country lanes. There have been a few occasions when accessing sites in the Lake district and Yorkshire dales when width and length have been as much a "hazard" as height. Overall, while the size of the Charisma can present some parking challenges at times, this is more than compensated for by the internal comfort. The best mpg we have achieved in motorway cruising at 55-60mph is 18mpg. To be honest I don't measure it these days but I guess the figure ranges from 15-18 overall.

I have not seen a Charisma on a Mercedes chassis (our previous Credo was on the Sprinter chassis) but we find the Iveco refinement on the move as pretty good. Ours is a 2009 vehicle; I guess newer vehicles may be better. 

Don


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## sallylillian (Sep 26, 2011)

When I was collecting my Flair in July I had a discussion with one of the techys at the German dealer about my choice of the new ZF auto box. He told me that the Agile box was a big problem for them prior to Iveco being taken over by was it General Motors or Chrysler, anyway the yanks forced improvements and if I remember right the problems went away 2011/2012 apparently. I was still, and am still, happy with the choice of ZF.


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## DonMacleod (Oct 2, 2013)

Seems like there were real reliability issues with the earlier boxes - I just have to hope that my one holds up OK. So far so good. The Flair looks like a fabulous machine by the way...


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