# to spey or not to spey?



## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a 3 year old Chocolate Labrador bitch and a 9 yo Collie bitch

the Collie was 'done' at 4 months old before her first season and has been a joy all this time and has no health problems and was at the vet last night for her annual Parvo jab

Enquiring after my Lab (my vet knows and loves both dogs ) we got onto the subject of speying only because I asked how often they come into season because she currently is 'on'.

We then had a long chat about why I don't want her done, weight problems etc. and it was something that several vets had widely differing views on - including his father, now retired, who said not to do it.

Should I or not? We have no intention of breeding from her

If it meant she would suddenly grow brains then I'd do it in an instant :lol: 

any thoughts?


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd do it. No messing about with is she or isn't she in season before taking her out. No male dogs bothering her unduly and no chance of any "accidents" if ahe does get out accidentally.

You can get horro stories about any procedure or anything come to that, including motorhoming! Youe experiences with your other dog have been good, as have mine with all three dogs we've had for what its worth, so let that be your guide.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

From a Moral point of view violating (if thats not too emotive a word) a dogs body just to make our lifes easier is unaccepatble. If for a heath issue eg Cancer of the womb or something like that then thats another story.

Its a bit like tail docking or such like and I wonder why vets routinely suggets speying if they are confident that the dog will not accidentally catch. 


There are other vets who suggest it to alter the dogs behaviour or mentality and its ridiculous in my view. yes it can help some dogs but these are more often than not dogs who have owners that dont know how to treat or train them so for instance whip a poor dogs goolies off to reduce testosterone and so aggression - or so its thought.

Its a matter of chioce really so it depends on why you want it done but if its just to avoid a bit of inconveinince then I would say no. Nature does things for a reason. 

Phill


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## cheshiregordon (Sep 24, 2011)

I have a 9 yr old female collie and I haven't had her speyed mainly due to not being totally comfortable with the process. I have never really had any problems from not having her speyed - when shes in season we exercise her by walking on the lead without problems.
I am considering getting another dog (and have been advised to get a male) and one of the issues which is stopping me is I don't want to have either speyed.
My wife however isn't bothered as regards this had her cat speyed as a kitten.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

we had our dog speyed before a litter (she was a rescue and it was one of the things the charity insisted on to try to reduce the number of abandoned dogs)

in later life she became slightly bladder incontinent (she would leak in her sleep but it was easily controlled by a daily dose of drug in her food) and we were told by the vet that this is a common occurrence in bitches that have never produced a litter.

something maybe to factor in to whatever decision you make??


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I suppose there is always two schools of thought on this

I would have any bitch spayed unless the intention was to breed. In a domestic environment a bitch in season is a problem. Walking in public places is a problem Unwanted pups are a problem

the same applies to cats both male and female should be neutered, the owners of male and female moggies have responsibility to prevent unwanted litters

I understand what Phil says but one way or another some form of control is needed to prevent unwanted animals that end up being destroyed in many instances.

Obviously Sprinta is not in the catogary of irresponsible owners but out and about with a bitch in season attracks unwanted attention from other peoples dogs who will be hell bent on making contact

The weight problem can be controlled with correct feeding, I think there can be tendancy to put on weight following spaying but only where food is in excess Then again the Lab is always in danger of gaining excess weight given its love of food

Aldra


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## K8H (Jul 22, 2013)

I used to have a Boxer bitch, she wasn't speyed as I didn't think it was necessary. We didn't breed from her, were always very careful when she was in season and never had any problems. When she was 7 she very suddenly became quite poorly and was diagnosed with Pyometra, luckily she survived but it was touch and go for a while. Google Pyometra for more info.
My Miniature Scnauzer is recovering from her spey yesterday, she hates me at the moment!! But I would not want another of my dogs ill with it.
HTH
Kate


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

Aldra's advice is spot on, and so is K8H's.

My sister didn't have her dog speyed, and she too developed a really nasty womb infection when she was 9 years old. It was very traumatic for the dog, an operation and IV antibiotics, and also very expensive. They very nearly lost her.

As well as this danger, bitches which are not speyed and not bred from often have phantom pregnancies, distressing and confusing for both the dog and the owner.

We adopted a male dog aged about 8 months when he was abandoned in Portugal. We had him neutered as soon as he was old enough, what you've never had you don't miss. We travel around a lot, the last thing we need is him shooting off after a bitch in season, or fathering yet more unwanted puppies. Male unneutered dogs also get more prostate problems than neutered dogs.

We think all dogs and cats, both male and female, should be neutered, unless used for deliberate breeding. With proper attention to diet, they are likely to be healthier and happier than their non-neutered counterparts.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Spaying isnt for the owners convenience.

It can help the animal psychologically not having the need to breed and be restrained from it.

100% with all Aldra says

Tests have shown that bitches spayed before or as near to first season do not get mammary tumors.
This little jolly can mean either individual mammary glands removed or a strip on one or both sides. Just as it says a total mastectomy of some or all of the bitches mammary glands. Very painful yes high dose pain relief but a choice of short term spey or all your tits removed? 

Life expectancy is extended

A pyo can mean a very ill animal on fluids for quite a time You can have a closed pyo where there is no discharge and an open where it leaks out so is more obvious.
The closed is the most dangerous but both can cause death and l have known this to happen. And further complications with kidneys can kick in so end up with a kidney failure.

Pyo is very common last l heard a well known out of hrs vets charged in excess of £1500 to do the op and often you don't really have a choice to wait.

If you smelt the pus that is a pyo you would never query having your animal neutered. 
Many yrs ago l told a new grad vet and student nurse to leave the pyo the main vet had just removed and they were looking at. 
They ignored me and sliced it open to look. When they finished vomiting l made them clean it up dammed if l was going to we had all doors open to try air the place out. None of us were amused. And the bigger the animal the bigger the pyo have known nearly a bucket come out of lab sized dogs.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

+1 with the Lass from Bulawayo.


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## Suzysetter (Jun 19, 2011)

No, my bitch became incontinent and her coat became a wooly matt.
Sorry to disagree


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## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

Thank you for that post, our close friend (a vet from SA) is the most caring vet I have ever met and will never ever treat an animal unnecessarily but will always advise speying before the dog's first season mainly to cut down on the chance of breast cancer. The earlier the safer is always his advice.

Totally agree with Bulawayo lass, your dog's health will potentially be better in her senior years. Weight gain shouldn't be an issue, you just cut down the amount of food they eat.


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

Have not read through all the posts, we had a much loved bitch of mixed parentage, mostly border collie/lab we didn't have her spayed.
We didn't encounter any problems when she was in heat and had no near misses till she was about 13, the upcome was we nearly lost her, vets bills much more than had she been 'done' as a pup.
Happily she lived onfor a few more years but i wish we had saved her the pain and distress.

Sue


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

If you don't intend breeding then I would have her speyed. It does have many benefits for her, for any Un neutered dogs in the vicinity and for you as owner. Unwanted pups often end up ill treated or needlessly put down. And even though you would seek good homes each of those pups is a potential parent and you can't have control over their future. 
Personally for me there is no reason not to.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

We had a border terrier bitch that wasn't speyed,she sadly died from cancer of the womb which probably wouldn't have happened if she had been ''done'' 


We have one of each sex and they are both neutered but for different reasons.The male because of dog aggression problems and the bitch for long term health issues as described so well by previous posters.Team terrier get on very well and live together harmoniously.

If you don't intend to breed from the dog then I would always recommend neutering,my 2 don't have any weight issues although I can see that being a problem with larger breeds.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm not sure I agree with spaying pre first season. I do think a bitch needs to develop and mature and her hormones play a part in that. After a season, though, I think it is a good idea. My old girl lived to a ripe old age with no problems at all and she was spayed after her first season.
I left my latest dog to have another season because she has Addisons Disease and it just was not the right time to do it. She was just two years old when she got a pyometra and had to have an emergency hysterectomy anyway!


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

patp said:


> I'm not sure I agree with spaying pre first season. I do think a bitch needs to develop and mature and her hormones play a part in that. After a season, though, I think it is a good idea. My old girl lived to a ripe old age with no problems at all and she was spayed after her first season.
> I left my latest dog to have another season because she has Addisons Disease and it just was not the right time to do it. She was just two years old when she got a pyometra and had to have an emergency hysterectomy anyway!


Speying puppies seems not right to us in the UK but seems to be the norm in other countries.

Like you, I would prefer to let them have at least one season but that is probably because it has always been done that way here.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

A season but no sex

Just how cruel is that

Much like never neutering a male dog

But never allowing him to sow his oats 

now how would you feel
:lol: 

Aldra


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

It's worse for wild dogs Sandra.

If you are not the Alpha male (or female in some cases), you don't get a look in. 8O


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

aldra said:


> A season but no sex
> 
> Just how cruel is that
> 
> ...


a bit like being married  :lol:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dog*

Hi

I had a male and female Weimaraner. I had the lassie spayed at about 9 years old. Aside from the mess when in season, (although she did have doggie pants) it also caused the male to get randy, even though he had had the snip

When she had the surgery, the vet removed other bits and pieces too. I forget exactly what was done, but the vet said it would prevent things later.

Russell


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