# House Insurance Unnocupancy



## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi folks,
House insurance renewal time again shortly and currently with C&CC Clubcare who used RSA ( Royal Sun Allliance).


Advantage of this was the availability of up to 180 days cover away from home without the requirement for someone (family or neighbour) to come in or sleep on a regular basis and check on property.


We've had this cover since 2015 and suits us fine but this year, they've changed the underwriters who will now only give 14 days away without checks.


As we tend to head to Spain, Portugal, France and rest of Europe every year for usually 90 days at a time plus week either side to tunnel or ferry ports.


What are other people using to do similar? 



We used to have our neighbours doing the checks but as they are older (than us) and not in the best of health now feel it is unfair on them.


Our family are also distant so not practical.


Any ideas?


Cheers,
Alan


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

We've always used them (since at least 2015)and that's a big change in their terms.

I reckon they stand to lose a lot of business as 14 days seems so low.......many companies seem to offer offer at least 90 days.

Luckily we do have a neighbour who does look in...............but not after 14 days.................so we'll be looking around as well.


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## waspes (Feb 11, 2008)

I have just done my insurance, I went through money super market, you can put in how many days that the property will be empty.
I went with Quote me happy and its insured with Aviva.

Peter.


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi Peter and Carmel,
Clubcare advisor reckoned at least 20% are not renewing due to the change. He has given me another number to try - will let you know how it pans out.


We also had to euthanise our cat (Speed) of 16 years before our last trip. He was just too unwell to travel to Europe this last time. He'd done 20 countries. Broke our hearts.


Cheers,
Alan


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

Thanks Peter,
Will give them a try tomorrow. With Quote Me Happy with car.
Cheers,
Alan


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So sorry to hear about your cat Alan. It must have left a huge hole in your lives after all that time 

We are with Marks and Spencers for our home insurance. Not sure who underwrites them. We had to negotiate the extension to 90 days but they were quite accommodating. I think that NFU offer flexibility too. The reason we considered both of these companies is that they offer "unlimited" cover on contents which also extends to garages and outbuildings. The cover offered by most other insurance companies for outbuildings is ridiculous. Chris has all his plumbing trade tools out there, plus a John Deere ride on lawn mover a Honda walk behind lawn mover and other things like rechargeable strimmers and hedge cutters etc. That's without all the power tools! We chose M&S over NFU because, apart from the unnoccupancy extension it could all be done on line. If you decide to phone NFU for a quote then do allow a couple of hours! They are brilliant and get an "excellent" Which? rating but it is a very old fashioned service designed around the needs of farmers.

When we got caught up in the Covid 19 lock down whilst in Spain I had to contact all our insurance companies to extend our 90 day cover even further. The only one who gave us any trouble was Pet Plan. At first they point blank refused to extend the cover. I sent them a stinking email pointing out that I would inform all my, extensive, dog world friends and we would all, then, inform our veterinary surgeries of their inflexible attitude. I got the extension.


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

Thanks Pat,
Like you, we were also forced home early from Messines in Portugal - quick trip to Badajoz, Spain for one night then Salamanca. Heard France/Spain border closing following day at 12:00 so made it by 11:00 then Gastes, Cleres and Tunnel. 



Rebooked crossing 18 days early (no extra charge) Canterbury, Leeds, Carlisle, Longtown Vets to pick up cat ashes for home burial. Now in his favourite spot on banking.



Will give M&S and NFU a try as well. 



Cheers,
Alan


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

While not nearly as sad as your pre trip troubles, we "lost" our dog two days before we were due to travel. Unbeknown to us she had chased a hare under an electric fence and into a free range chicken unit. She hunkered down out of sight for the rest of that day and through the, December, night presumably too scared to move in case that invisible god zapped her again! We did recover her the next day but our plans were all askew and my adrenaline did not stop pumping for two days!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

If you can only get short term cover for an unoccupied house try having a word with a local letting agency. I am sure for a small fee they would visit your house every so often to check all was in order and, more importantly, keep records of those visits. 

Just a thought. 

Andy


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We do have a friend visit the house to pick up post etc, but I think a lot of insurance companies want it "occupied". This last trip our daughter and son in law stayed for a weekend too. I never trust insurance companies not to wriggle out of a claim though


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I have wondered for many years how exactly an insurance company could *prove * that a house was in fact "unoccupied" for any consecutive period in order to repudiate a claim. If you say your relative/friend stayed in the house overnight on say day 23 of a 28 day period its VERY difficult for anyone to prove otherwise. In fact it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. For example how can I prove I didn't exceed the speed limit at 2:28pm last Thursday??

Andy


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I, too, wondered this. It occurred to me that they might ask for petrol receipts or other kinds of spending? They might track their phones? It would be difficult at out house because there is no signal!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Pat
It's not you who have to prove anything whatsoever, it is the insurance company who would have to prove that the property was "unoccupied" for a period greater than what the policy conditions are and *that* would be extremely difficult.

Say it's 28 days, the insurers would need to show proof that for that *entire period* any property wasn't occupied (24/7) 
"My son stayed over for a couple of nights when he was in the area on business" ??

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes, no problem until there is a claim. Then of course everything becomes relevant. What we might assume has nothing to do with the house suddenly becomes a get out clause.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Ray

You are losing sight of the fact that it's the insurance company who have to "prove the negative" I.e. that the property was unoccupied for more than the number of days stated in the policy. They cannot require/force you to prove anything whatsoever you do not have to prove it WAS occupied, they must prove it WASNT.

Look at in regards to say speeding. Say a bent policeman says you were speeding, how on earth can you prove you weren't ? Likewise how can an insurer prove there was nobody in a property over 28 consecutive days?

The onus of proof is NOT yours, it's the insurers. You have to do nothing, they have to do everything.

Car insurance. Many have a 60 day limit for European cover. But there is no way of them proving you were in Europe for more than one period of 60 days is there? You could go abroad four times for 60 days on each. There is no way of an insurer proving you went more than once (unless you make a claim on more than one trip) You could produce a ferry ticket for the journey you are on at the time of any claim to show the outbound and return dates.

They can _*ask*_ you to notify them when you are going abroad, but they cannot compel you. I had this "discussion" with my car insurer, who insisted I must tell them when I was going abroad, a couple of years ago. I asked them to detail where exactly in my policy it said it was a requirement I notify them each time went abroad. After much huffing and puffing, and phone calls, from various members of increasing seniority of their "customer care" team who tried very hard to convince me, they finally conceded that it was NOT a condition of my policy and I DIDNT have to tell them, but they would "like me to" 
I said no I would not be advising a total stranger (their call handler) of the dates my house would be unoccupied for "security reasons"

Andrew one, insurance company nil!

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Well done Andy. But having had insurance companies 'wriggle' out or at least limit their liability over interpretation of the policy wording, I would always try and show compliance.

Ray.


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

There are quite a few who will cover the property up to 90 days but the 180 day was ideal as we could take a week either side of 90 Europe trip and still be OK. Looking like M&S with Aviva at the moment.
Andy, did have rental agency check out the flat for insurance but not convinced they did - they had stock photos from 6 month checks. Now sold.



Regarding wriggle room by the insurance companies, was with the major UK one for travel insurance (you have to be over 50) and after our enforced return in March, tried to get something back for having to return early. To make the various borders before closure, used the toll roads which incurred 138 euros we would not normally use. Tried to claim just for the toll roads and let them decide if our early return (18 days) would give us something back. As our excess was £150 - nothing!! As we did not have sites or hotels or flights etc and suffered no monetary loss - zilch.


We could possibly cancel and claim refund as at the moment but as it is a multi-trip until January 2021, will just let it run.
Cheers,
Alan


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It is a stupid rule anyway. People get burgled when they are out in their back gardens! Even happens when they are in bed! Pipes burst at any time day or night whether people are in occupancy or not.


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

Hi all,
Having shuffled loads of paperwork about for numerous days, loads of quotes online - usually half way through saying assumptions are a maximum of 60 days away from home, eventually settled on Aviva through M&S. 



Got a bit of satisfaction deleting all the bumph from companies offering insurance from my e-mail inbox. No doubt next year they'll be back informing me my renewal will be due shortly.
Going to bite the bullet and go for 90 days including travel to and from tunnel but usually only book for 80+ days to give us leeway.


Thanks to all for suggestions,


Cheers,
Alan


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