# Problem with Fiat Ducato brakes



## Wellers (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi there, we bought a second hand Rapido on a Ducato 2.8 maxi, the day after we got it we travelled to France, did about 1400 miles in a week, and at the Eurotunnel approach road heard a ping and a bang coming from the rear. We thought nothing of it (thought it was a stone bouncing up) till after stopping and pulling away, the brakes went BANG and the back went down. Phoned the dealer (SMC at Maidenhead) to advise (its got a 3 month warranty on it), explained the situation and bearing in mind we are about 90 miles away, he advised to get a local garage to look at it, and confirmed this would be covered under the warranty. This we did, and a faulty lever arm spring was diagnosed. We could not drive the MH up to maidenhead, so advised the dealer. He advised getting repaired and to send the paid invoice to him. He has since advised he has contacted Fiat and the problem was caused by us driving along _with the handbrake on_, and that this was a common fault (yes, there is a h/brake warning light and we are both experienced drivers so think we would have known if this had happened!), and that he would now only pay 50% of the costs. We have contacted Fiat direct ourselves, who advise they know nothing of this 'common fault', and 3 other motorhome dealers/service centres advise that they have never heard of this 'common problem', and that there must have been a fault there.
Has anyone heard of this 'common problem', or is it that the dealer is trying to back out of the Warranty??
Feedback much appreciated!


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Well it does sound as if he is trying it on, i would get an independent report done.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

Wellers said:


> ........................ the brakes went BANG and the back went down. .............


Sounds like the handbrake grabbing on while in motion, if this is the case then there could be a problem with the handbrake mechanism at the wheel.
My instinct tells me the first port of call should be a strip down of the rear brake assembly to check for a fault or damage.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Is there a common problem?

Yes there is on the maxi chassis - but the cause is usually due to the handbrake being incorrectly adjusted. The situation would be exacerbated by driving with the handbrake slightly engaged but it's basically because the top hat handbrake on the maxi chassis needs to be adjusted by turning an invisible ratchet within the drum through a very small hole. This isn't easy and many lazy (or inexperienced) mechanics simply adjust them by tightening the cable. This causes the shoes to bind and occasionally seize. Reversing the 'van often frees up the shoes - until next time it happens.

The likelyhood is that your handbrake had been incorrectly adjusted at some time in the past, you need to check that it has now been rectified and that the shoes are not badly worn/damaged as a result.


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## blackbirdbiker (Mar 12, 2007)

gaspode said:


> Is there a common problem?
> 
> Yes there is on the maxi chassis - but the cause is usually due to the handbrake being incorrectly adjusted. The situation would be exacerbated by driving with the handbrake slightly engaged but it's basically because the top hat handbrake on the maxi chassis needs to be adjusted by turning an invisible ratchet within the drum through a very small hole. This isn't easy and many lazy (or inexperienced) mechanics simply adjust them by tightening the cable. This causes the shoes to bind and occasionally seize. Reversing the 'van often frees up the shoes - until next time it happens.
> 
> The likelyhood is that your handbrake had been incorrectly adjusted at some time in the past, you need to check that it has now been rectified and that the shoes are not badly worn/damaged as a result.


My van on a Maxi has disc brakes on the back, as i thought all maxis did,  agree with the bang though, with the hand brake on slightly it has happened to me but did no damage.. :roll:

Keith


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

It's as blackbirdbiker says. I don't know why and it seems that it shouldn't happen, perhaps it's a design fault, but if you apply the handbrake while in motion, particularly if going quickly, it causes a terrific bang. It really sounds as if it could do serious damage, it happend to me once (don't ask why  ) and I will never repeat it.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

blackbirdbiker said:


> My van on a Maxi has disc brakes on the back, as i thought all maxis did,


Indeed, AFAIK all maxis do have disc brakes on the back - for the footbrake only.

But they also have drums incorporated within the centre of the rear discs exclusively for the handbrake, it's called a "top hat" brake. As a result the drum brake is rather difficult to access and some mechanics don't even realise (or prefer not to know) that the drum brake exists - that's why they adjust the handbrake incorrectly using the cable adjusters.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Wellers said:


> Hi there, we bought a second hand Rapido on a Ducato 2.8 maxi, the day after we got it we travelled to France, did about 1400 miles in a week, and at the Eurotunnel approach road heard a ping and a bang coming from the rear. We thought nothing of it (thought it was a stone bouncing up) till after stopping and pulling away, the brakes went BANG and the back went down. Phoned the dealer (SMC at Maidenhead) to advise (its got a 3 month warranty on it), explained the situation and bearing in mind we are about 90 miles away, he advised to get a local garage to look at it, and confirmed this would be covered under the warranty. This we did, and a faulty lever arm spring was diagnosed. We could not drive the MH up to maidenhead, so advised the dealer. He advised getting repaired and to send the paid invoice to him. He has since advised he has contacted Fiat and the problem was caused by us driving along _with the handbrake on_, and that this was a common fault (yes, there is a h/brake warning light and we are both experienced drivers so think we would have known if this had happened!), and that he would now only pay 50% of the costs. We have contacted Fiat direct ourselves, who advise they know nothing of this 'common fault', and 3 other motorhome dealers/service centres advise that they have never heard of this 'common problem', and that there must have been a fault there.
> Has anyone heard of this 'common problem', or is it that the dealer is trying to back out of the Warranty??
> Feedback much appreciated!


Take the dealer to a Small Claims Court it can all be done by post usually and you can phone them for advice usually the the company you are claiming against don't always answer the court but if you persevere to the next stage (s) and if they don't answer to the court
the Court will send in the Bailiff's I know a Large National company refused to admit that our 10 month old £600 worth of curtains were faulty they soon paid a cheque including our court charges when the Bailiffs walked in.

On types of hanbrakes where brakeshoes are used it is vital that the hanbrake cables are slackened then the shoes adjusted then the cables adjusted , on selfadjusting brakes (if the self adjusters are working properly ) you need to be sure that the handbrake lever comes up to the recommended number of "clicks" which may mean it seems to come up a lot ,if you over adjust the handbrake the "self adjusters" will not work correctly ,if in doubt pay somebody to do it for you .As I always say "You are a long time dead"

Tony 50

Tony 50


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

I think you will find that this is referred to as a parking brake not a hand brake. I was told by our main agents to never use it whilst the vehicle was moving. As stated they are really tricky to adjust particularly with the Alko low line chassis. If the cable does not have enough room to move as you jack up the rear when the wheel drops down on the swinging arm then you will get a false sense of adjustment when you ratchet the shoes through that small hole in the backplate. Even when adjusted correctly they only just make the MOT standard and you do need someone who knows their way round these brakes.


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-46309-.html yep we Had that horrible bang, under no circumstances apply handbrake until vehicle is stopped and double check the handbrake is completly off, a bit tricky to get to on some m/h, does sound like your handbrake was partially on (easily done) I did take our rear brakes appart but only as far as removing the disc's off both sides to check that the pins that hold the handbrake shoes in place had not snapped or that the brakeshoe linings had not come off but its so compact inside there that was as far as I got as did not think I would be able to reasemble the shoes and handbrake cable
Chris


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Codfinger said:


> its so compact inside there that was as far as I got as did not think I would be able to reasemble the shoes and handbrake cable
> Chris


Hi Chris

Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Unlike you, I did dismantle the whole lot. 8O

My handbrake had been badly adjusted and following an MOT where we struggled to get a high enough reading on the brake tester I jacked the rear and and found some rolling resistance on one rear wheel even with the handbrake fully disengaged.
I decided that a full stripdown was in order and on doing so discovered that due to misadjustment, one shoe on the nearside was worn almost down to the metal whilst the others weren't worn at all, this caused by having been adjusted on the cable instead of the shoes. There were also chunks damaged on the edge of the shoe linings, presumably as a result of the handbrake being applied whilst in motion.
I replaced all the shoes (not cheap or easy to obtain "off the shelf"), freed up the adjusters, cleaned the drum surfaces and reassembled (not too difficult) making sure the shoes were correctly adjusted. The handbrake performed much better afterwards but I'm very hesitant to apply the handbrake when on the rolling road during MOT these days for fear of damaging the shoes again. As you say, the handbrake is a parking brake, never meant to be used to stop the 'van. Fortunately my MOT tester is a very sensible and understanding chap. :wink:


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