# Do you have a spare tyre?



## rosalan

Like many vans, ours came with 4 wheels and a kit to inflate and repair a puncture.
At the recent Show in Shrewsbury (I think), I saw a spare wheel and tyre for sale at £70 which was an exact match to mine, so we bought it.
Last week in Cascantes in Spain, I awoke to find a flat tyre, with what looked like a tyre scuff and a hole in the sidewall showing canvass.
Although it was a Sunday we called out breakdown and watched the man undo the wheel with a long scaffold pole.


Without the spare, I wonder what the outcome would have been. The inflation kit with repair fluid could not have worked. So is the repair kit really fit for purpose?

Why call out breakdown for a simple task like changing a wheel?
I do not carry a scaffold pole, so would not have managed to undo the nuts, even if it had only been a nail in the tyre. Anyhow, I pay a lot for the insurance cover and over the years have lost the macho enthusiasm for changing wheels these days.

We later discovered that the tyre, a Continental VanCo Camper 15" is hard to find as it took visits to four large depots before locating one, where a new one cost 170€ including 29€ for the valve(???).

Do you carry a spare wheel?

Alan


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## listerdiesel

We always have to remind our tyre guy not to do the nuts up with the airguns but to use a torque wrench, and to be fair he does that now.

We always have spares, two for the trailer (6-wheeler) and one or two for the Discovery, depending on where we are going.

Repair kits are less than useless in my view, I'd never buy a vehicle without a full-sized spare wheel, no matter what it was I was buying.

Peter


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## cabby

Yes we carry a spare, have done within 2 weeks of finding that Fiat did not supply it.

cabby


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## GEMMY

Similar problem, new van no spare, Merc agents nearby supplied wheel, local tyre man the tyre, all sorted for £140, as opposed to Travelworld quote of over£300.

Two years agon suffered a flat on previous van, faulty Fiat wheel weld. I changed the wheel my self, suffered slipped disc, trapped sciatic nerve etc, 10 months of aggro.

Wheel changing..........leave it to someone else. :wink: 

tony


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## nicholsong

I also have a spare (original AFAIK)

But I wonder how I would get on now as the 'summer' spare does not match the 'winter' tyres that I run on all year.

If I had to use the spare in a country where the winter tyres are compulsory, I suppose I would be illegal.

Secondly the advice is to change tyres at 5-year intervals. Does this apply to spare tyres which are not under load and not subject to UVR degradation?

Geoff


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## 1302

The m/home has a full sized spare. The new Vw Up! That we have just bought has not. I have bought a wheel from VW and collect it with a tyre on it this morning.I understand its about reducing weight but the only times I have ever had a flat (luckily only 3) one of those kits woulnt help. The VW one is £46 to replace if you use it. OK so I'm about £70 down but I now have a matching tyre in stock/ I will never have to replace the aerosol thing and I can get moving again much quicker


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## mikebeaches

Duplicate post deleted.


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## mikebeaches

Unfortunately, I have to admit, I didn't realise our van hadn't got a spare, only a so called 'fix and go' kit until immediately after I'd bought it. 

And it causes me a lot of concern. I'd buy a spare wheel or even just a spare tyre, without the rim BUT - there is nowhere on our van to put it. It's sub 6-metre in length and the converter has fitted two waste tanks where the spare would normally be fitted underneath.

We'd lose more than half our storage space if we put it under the bed inside the van.

We've managed over 18,000 miles OK so far, but we know there could be a problem anytime which the fix and go wouldn't resolve.

So something of a worrying conundrum.

Mike


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## Techno100

YES I went to great lengths to facilitate one :lol: 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-139103-alko.html+wheel+carrier


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## GEMMY

Mike, bike racks make great places for a spare.

tony


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## Mark993

mikebeaches said:


> ...
> We'd lose more than half our storage space if we put it under the bed inside the van.
> 
> ...


Could you bolt it to back of van (land rover style?).

We carry a spare for the reasons stated above, but Ford (Transit base) provide them as standard so did not need to actually buy anything.

I can see the weight (fuel) saving logic on a small car, but not on a MH where the spare is a very very small % of the weight and where the vehicle is likely to be used in foreign lands in situations where obtaining a new tyre might be quite awkward.


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## Jamsieboy

When I bought me van it didn't come with a spare so purchased one PDQ.
Keep it in the van garage fixed to the inside wall.


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## rayc

Are the metal valves as used by Fiat on original supply easily available on the replacement tyre market? Is it advised to renew them when a tyre is replaced?


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## 747

I would be interested to know of a supplier and the part number (or type) of high pressure tyre valves for 2002 - 2006 16" Ducato rims. I have meant to ask this for a while so thanks for jogging my fading memory.

I did not have a spare but I bought a (nearly) new rim from a garage which routinely fits Alloys on new Motorhomes.


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## raynipper

My local tyre garage put metal valves in all six wheels when I got them to fit M&S tyres. Can't remember the extra cost so it could not have been that much.

I'm researching buying a new or next to new Tiguan or Mazda CX-5 and all the ones I have seen the spare is EXTRA.!!!!!!

Ray.


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## listerdiesel

We were in our tyre suppliers yesterday, and I called them just now to ask what was available in the way of metal valves for alloys with tubeless tyres.

It is not something they keep, and most bolt-in valves are for trucks, but there is a range of smaller valves available.

Also on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300977530990

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151139257477

Peter


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## rayc

The genuine Fiat type metal valves for the x250 can be obtained from Tyresave for £7.50 each plus £2pp.

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/


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## 1302

nicholsong said:


> Secondly the advice is to change tyres at 5-year intervals. Does this apply to spare tyres which are not under load and not subject to UVR degradation?
> 
> Geoff


Not always so - my pal runs a set of twelveyearold tyres on his T4 which have covedred over 120000 miles and are still good. He is a real fuss pot abouthis vehicle so wouldnt be taking chances (and as a truck driver needs a clean license)

He has beentold by a tyre manufacturer that its the regular use thatkeeps them supple.


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## GMLS

mikebeaches said:


> .
> 
> So something of a worrying conundrum.
> 
> Mike


Rig up a simple carrier on the roof?


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## 747

listerdiesel said:


> We were in our tyre suppliers yesterday, and I called them just now to ask what was available in the way of metal valves for alloys with tubeless tyres.
> 
> It is not something they keep, and most bolt-in valves are for trucks, but there is a range of smaller valves available.
> 
> Also on ebay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300977530990
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151139257477
> 
> Peter


Hi Peter,

Neither of those valves in the links are the same as what were originally fitted to my van. This is the problem I have, I don't want to faff on sending parts back.

The ones fitted have a longer cylindrical section below the hex head. I assume this gives sufficient clearance to get a spanner on.


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## listerdiesel

747 said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> Neither of those valves in the links are the same as what were originally fitted to my van. This is the problem I have, I don't want to faff on sending parts back.
> 
> The ones fitted have a longer cylindrical section below the hex head. I assume this gives sufficient clearance to get a spanner on.


There are quite a few available, I'd pop into a small tyre supplier like ours and ask them what they have.

Peter


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## Zepp

We carry a spare all six of our wheels are alloys ( tyre size 215/75R 16cp) but the spare is on a steel rim do I need different bolts and if yes where would I get them.

I did ask the tyre fitter once , but he said they would fit he never even looked at the spare and he fitted duff valves .

I had to have them all replaced.


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## 747

listerdiesel said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Neither of those valves in the links are the same as what were originally fitted to my van. This is the problem I have, I don't want to faff on sending parts back.
> 
> The ones fitted have a longer cylindrical section below the hex head. I assume this gives sufficient clearance to get a spanner on.
> 
> 
> 
> There are quite a few available, I'd pop into a small tyre supplier like ours and ask them what they have.
> 
> Peter
Click to expand...

I tried that about a year ago Peter. None of the large tyre chains stock them, neither did the 2 independants I asked. Even the websites I have seen give no specific information. I have no idea what the hole diameter is in the rims (not without taking a tyre off and removing the valve). It's one of lifes little mysteries. :lol:


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## rayc

747 said:


> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Neither of those valves in the links are the same as what were originally fitted to my van. This is the problem I have, I don't want to faff on sending parts back.
> 
> The ones fitted have a longer cylindrical section below the hex head. I assume this gives sufficient clearance to get a spanner on.
> 
> 
> 
> There are quite a few available, I'd pop into a small tyre supplier like ours and ask them what they have.
> 
> Peter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried that about a year ago Peter. None of the large tyre chains stock them, neither did the 2 independants I asked. Even the websites I have seen give no specific information. I have no idea what the hole diameter is in the rims (not without taking a tyre off and removing the valve). It's one of lifes little mysteries. :lol:
Click to expand...

If you take the info from the wheel i.e 6Jx15 etc and talk to Duncan at Tyresave then I am sure he can help. He is familiar with Ducato wheels and sizes. They supply spare wheels for the X250 fitted with High Pressure metal valves.

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/
4 Dock Road, Connah's Quay, Deeside, Flints UK. CH5 4DS 
Tel: 01244 813030 Fax: 831010


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## listerdiesel

Bl**dy marvellous!

All this talk about spare wheels, I picked up a nail going to Asda this morning, that's £15 down the drain 

Peter


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## inkey-2008

When I had the tyres changed on my van the guy at a commercial tyre depot said they did not change metal valves as they do not need changing.

Andy


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## raynipper

listerdiesel said:


> Bl**dy marvellous!
> 
> All this talk about spare wheels, I picked up a nail going to Asda this morning, that's £15 down the drain
> 
> Peter


Sods law Peter.
Like after booking my neighbours flights I checked my passport and found it needed renewing..... :roll: :roll:

Ray.


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## rayc

With regards to the life of the metal tyre valves as used on the X250 I have had the following response from Duncan of tyresave;

"These valves do not need replacing with every tyre change. The rubber seal is under the metal of the wheel rim so it does not perish or degrade the same way that external rubber does.
Over time it can harden, but usually lasts at least 10 years."


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## 747

I will still need to order 1 set of 4 at least (as this is probably the minimum order). My rims are over 10 years old (and showing it :wink: ) as will be the valves but my particular problem is with the spare. The independent tyre company that fitted the new tyre had to scrape about to find a metal one. Anyway, the one that is fitted is not correct and despite my best efforts, it leaks air slightly. I have to check it now and again and put more air in to keep it usable in an emergency.

I have emailed Tyresave regarding valves and hope to hear from them shortly. Thanks for the link Ray.


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## pomme1

Although my 'van didn't come with a spare wheel as standard, the dealer included one as part of the deal.

Unfortunately, it was fitted with the normal rubber valve. My local independent tyre specialist in Bridgnorth had bolt-in valves in stock and supplied and fitted one for the princely sum of £4.75!

Roger


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## StewartJ

After a very negative and costly tyre replacement on our last car ( a Ford with so called repair kit and no spare) I would not contemplate purchase of either another car or motorhome without a spare. Present car a Golf has at least a skinny "get you home wheel"!

Its time manufacturers woke up to this fact and its not just me banging the drum, total bollox when spending lots of dosh we are short changed with no spare just to save them a few quid and increase profits.

Repair kits are rubbish and cannot fix a large hole or sidewall damage.

Incidently when you do use the kit to fix your car tyre a replacement inflation/sealant cartridge is humungous money. (nigh on half the cost of a new tyre in my case)


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## 1302

StewartJ said:


> Incidently when you do use the kit to fix your car tyre a replacement inflation/sealant cartridge is humungous money. (nigh on half the cost of a new tyre in my case)


I installed a wheel and tyre in our VW Up! today. At £46 to replace the tyre weld kit I put that money toards a wheel and tyre that eventually get put onto the car and be much safer should I get a flat...


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## HermanHymer

Availability of your particular tyre can be an issue depending where you are. In 2011 I decided to replace my 7 year old tyres but there were no Pirelli camper tyres available in UK. I managed to secure just 2 Vanco Campers 15". Last year, after a broken promise and a l-o-n-g internet search I managed to find 3 more.

What position would I have been in should there have been a failure say somewhere wild in Europe, the delays and the cost??

Not worth contemplating!


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## emmbeedee

Weekend before last a friend of ours had a flat on her Skoda Yeti, on M40, en route to visit her daughter & new grand-daughter in Kent. On looking at the tyre she could see it was scrap so crawled a couple of hundred yards to Beaconsfield services. Called Skoda assist, they took wheel but couldn't locate a tyre so sent for a flatbed which, eventually, took her to her destination, by now late Friday night. She had to spend Saturday morning getting it sorted, at considerable expense. Next, she gets a letter from parking company with £100 fine for exceeding time limit on services. She hadn't gone in to buy a ticket as she had dog with her.
Maybe we should ask the EU to do something useful for a change & require all vehicles to carry a serviceable spare, or at least a "doughnut".


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## carol

Techno100 said:


> YES I went to great lengths to facilitate one :lol:
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-139103-alko.html+wheel+carrier


Ah but spare wheel was supplied with your used vehicle as we had made it a condition of sale when specifiying it.

The fact that you have managed a good solution is great... and far better than we had, which was stored upright and strapped in the centre of the rear garage. But we don't all have your ability to make things like that.

Carol


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## Techno100

Ahh but your spare only had a 215 on it not a 225 as the ones on each corner. The rim itself was from an earlier Ducato too so the wheel trim would not fit.


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## Sprinta

my latest MH is a Burstner Nexxo T660 which is supplied with only the gunge and compressor.

Conscious of the need to be sensible about the payload I've purchased a spare tyre and will keep that inside the locker wrapped in a cloth, so if I need a replacement if a puncture can't be fixed at the roadside I won't have such a worry about getting one.


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## goldi

Morning folks,

I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire.
Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.

good luck 

norm


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## Medallionman

Zepp said:


> We carry a spare all six of our wheels are alloys ( tyre size 215/75R 16cp) but the spare is on a steel rim do I need different bolts and if yes where would I get them.
> 
> I did ask the tyre fitter once , but he said they would fit he never even looked at the spare and he fitted duff valves .
> 
> I had to have them all replaced.


Almost certainly the steel wheel and alloys will have different bolts. The alloy rims are thicker and the bolts therefore longer. I am in the same situation and mine are definitely different (on a Merc). You should be able to get a set from a scrap yard. Don't leave it until you have a flat to find out.


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## 747

goldi said:


> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour *which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire*.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm


Well don't go to Lancashire in the first place. :roll:


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## Techno100

goldi said:


> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm


Tyre rotation is a thing of the past.
The fronts will always wear faster so when a new pair are needed just move the rears to the front so the new go on the back.

If you like the expense of replacing all four at once then rotation will help :lol:


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## 1302

Techno100 said:


> Tyre rotation is a thing of the past.
> The fronts will always wear faster so when a new pair are needed just move the rears to the front so the new go on the back.
> 
> lol:


I disagree

I would prefer to see new tyres at the same end as the steering wheel


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## 1302

Techno100 said:


> Tyre rotation is a thing of the past.
> The fronts will always wear faster so when a new pair are needed just move the rears to the front so the new go on the back.
> 
> lol:


I disagree

I would prefer to see new tyres at the same end as the steering wheel


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## Techno100

It is a proven fact that vehicles handle safer with new tyres to the rear.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=n...7&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centre/latest-news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-“back-to-front”


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## rayc

My X250 handbook says;

"to allow even wear between the front and rear tyres, it is advisable to change them over every 10-15 thousand kilometres,
keeping them on the same side of the vehicle so as to not reverse
the direction of rotation."

How does that stack up with the new tyres on the rear policy as it would only apply for 15,000 km if Fiat advise is followed?


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## Techno100

Fiat obviously don't keep up :lol: but that's nothing new is it.
Fiat are not tyre experts?
The links above are from professional bodies

Quote
Rear tyres are subject to relatively low wear rates as well, meaning that the new tyres will have a longer lifespan on the back rims. Fitting new tyres to the rear and moving part worn rubber to the front each time also means that the rear tyres will be less prone to age-related deterioration from prolonged exposure. - See more at: http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centr...ir-tyres-“back-to-front”#sthash.p5XLuGS7.dpuf


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## 1302

After reading I still disagree. And thats based on driving cars and not talking about them. A FWD car is much more easily rescued thru a bend whilst out of control than a RWD. No tyre 'scientist' will change my mind or that fact


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## Techno100

That's proven to be rubbish too by top gear


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## KeithChesterfield

Spare wheel to use in emergency to get MH to nearest Tyre depot in case of failure of an existing tyre -

15" Fiat Ducato wheel from Scrapyard - £15 + cleaning and painting.

215/70 R15 Michelin tyre (8mm tread) that hasn't even touched tarmac but sold as 'part worn' from Tyre dealer and fitted with new valve - £30 

£45 in total - and peace of mind - Priceless!

:wav: :wav: :wav:


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## 1302

Techno100 said:


> That's proven to be rubbish too by top gear


'Opinion' if its Top Gear ( of which I am a huge fan) but not fact....

But we were on about spares not porsches going round bends...


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## 1302

Techno100 said:


> That's proven to be rubbish too by top gear


'Opinion' if its Top Gear ( of which I am a huge fan) but not fact....

But we were on about spares not porsches going round bends...


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## Techno100

The entire google search came up with the opposite of your opinion but you are entitled to it.

No.2 Myths debunked
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/6-common-tire-myths-debunked-10031440

Vicki Butler Henderson demonstrates
http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/new-tyres-on-rear-800.html


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## 747

rayc said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Neither of those valves in the links are the same as what were originally fitted to my van. This is the problem I have, I don't want to faff on sending parts back.
> 
> The ones fitted have a longer cylindrical section below the hex head. I assume this gives sufficient clearance to get a spanner on.
> 
> 
> 
> There are quite a few available, I'd pop into a small tyre supplier like ours and ask them what they have.
> 
> Peter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried that about a year ago Peter. None of the large tyre chains stock them, neither did the 2 independants I asked. Even the websites I have seen give no specific information. I have no idea what the hole diameter is in the rims (not without taking a tyre off and removing the valve). It's one of lifes little mysteries. :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you take the info from the wheel i.e 6Jx15 etc and talk to Duncan at Tyresave then I am sure he can help. He is familiar with Ducato wheels and sizes. They supply spare wheels for the X250 fitted with High Pressure metal valves.
> 
> http://www.tyresave.co.uk/
> 4 Dock Road, Connah's Quay, Deeside, Flints UK. CH5 4DS
> Tel: 01244 813030 Fax: 831010
Click to expand...

I emailed tyresave last night and got a reply today. They have the metal valves in stock at £30 per set of 4, so I will order 2 sets (tag axle van with spare wheel).


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## 1302

Techno100 said:


> The entire google search came up with the opposite of your opinion but you are entitled to it.
> 
> No.2 Myths debunked
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/6-common-tire-myths-debunked-10031440
> 
> Vicki Butler Henderson demonstrates
> http://www.etyres.co.uk/flashmovies/new-tyres-on-rear-800.html


Yes. But the first link comes from people who spell it 'tire' and they know nothing about handling. VICKI knows even less...

Try taking a pushchair up a sandy beach on its front wheels versus the back ones and let me know how you get on...


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## HermanHymer

747 said:


> goldi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour *which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire*.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm
> 
> 
> 
> Well don't go to Lancashire in the first place. :roll:
Click to expand...

Hey watch it, you're playing with your pension! Lanky girls are tough! All this lip cos Aldra's gone walkabout????


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## 1302

HermanHymer said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour *which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire*.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm
> 
> 
> 
> Well don't go to Lancashire in the first place. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey watch it, you're playing with your pension! Lanky girls are tough! All this lip cos Aldra's gone walkabout????
Click to expand...

Could we keep threads on line rather than talking 'old gimps ****e'

Thank you


----------



## 1302

HermanHymer said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour *which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire*.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm
> 
> 
> 
> Well don't go to Lancashire in the first place. :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey watch it, you're playing with your pension! Lanky girls are tough! All this lip cos Aldra's gone walkabout????
Click to expand...

Could we keep threads on line rather than talking 'old gimps ****e'

Thank you


----------



## pneumatician

Listerdiesel, It is a definate No No to replace a wheel using a pneumatic or electric impact wrench. The wheel bolts or nuts must be final torqued with a torque wrench.

Reputable tyre fitters know this.

You can buy an extending wheel wrench and sockets that increases the leverage. My bolts are 185Nm and I can undo these quite easily.

Basic rules never use lubricants on the bolts or studs and always final sequence torque using a torque wrench.


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## pneumatician

Reading the thread further.

Re: front V rear wheel drive.

I have both experienced and seen several Front wheel drive vans getting stuck on soft surfaces. Fingers crossed but to date our current rear wheel drive has yet to present this problem.

Re: Spare wheels.

I wouldn't leave home without one in either of my vehicles. Just wish motorbikes had one. Always carry emergency repair kis on the bikes but there is an element of luck in their suitability.


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## 1302

pneumatician said:


> Reading the thread further.
> 
> Re: front V rear wheel drive.
> 
> I have both experienced and seen several Front wheel drive vans getting stuck on soft surfaces. Fingers crossed but to date our current rear wheel drive has yet to present this problem.
> 
> Re: Spare wheels.
> 
> I wouldn't leave home without one in either of my vehicles. Just wish motorbikes had one. Always carry emergency repair kis on the bikes but there is an element of luck in their suitability.


Thanks for being even more boring than we could imagine...

Tee hee


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## Pat-H

Techno100 said:


> goldi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm
> 
> 
> 
> Tyre rotation is a thing of the past.
> The fronts will always wear faster so when a new pair are needed just move the rears to the front so the new go on the back.
> 
> If you like the expense of replacing all four at once then rotation will help :lol:
Click to expand...

Re tyre life: We had our van MOT'd a few weeks back and I mentioned I planned to swap the fronts to the back as the backs look new and the fronts are pat worn. The tyres are stock and the van is an 07 plate so 6 years old or so.
The MOT guy said I should just replace them as they are over 5 years old.
I queried if that was law or even an MOT requirement and he said no.
I then asked if his MOT inspection done 10 minutes earlier had spotted any issues with the tyres and he agreed they were fine.
I checked with my insurance company and they confirmed that as long as the vehicle passed it's MOT the tyres where fine to use.

We use our van a few times a months winter and summer so it's always being used so I plan to use the tyres until they have an issue.
I'm not throwing hundreds of pounds and wasting resources just because...


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## 747

This thread is about having a spare tyre.

It is not an argument about FWD, RWD, Top Gear or who has the smallest willy (usually the first one to mention the word Porsche).

Pot ... Kettle ... Black.


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## goldi

747 said:


> This thread is about having a spare tyre.
> 
> It is not an argument about FWD, RWD, Top Gear or who has the smallest willy (usually the first one to mention the word Porsche).
> 
> Pot ... Kettle ... Black.


 Dead right,

Lets get back on topic, Who can or can,t see their willy because of their spare tyre ?? :wink:

norm


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## listerdiesel

pneumatician said:


> Listerdiesel, It is a definate No No to replace a wheel using a pneumatic or electric impact wrench. The wheel bolts or nuts must be final torqued with a torque wrench.
> 
> Reputable tyre fitters know this.
> 
> You can buy an extending wheel wrench and sockets that increases the leverage. My bolts are 185Nm and I can undo these quite easily.
> 
> Basic rules never use lubricants on the bolts or studs and always final sequence torque using a torque wrench.


I think that's what I said re the tyre gun? 

You'll be hard pressed to find ANY tyre shop that doesn't use pneumatic air guns, I haven't ever come across one yet, reputable or not.

If you'd like to struggle with unlubricated threads on a winters night in the rain, good luck to you. All of my nuts and studs have Copaslip applied to the threads etc, and I have never had any problems over 40 years of motoring, but then again I do check wheelnuts regularly.

Dissimilar metal corrosion between steel nuts and alloy wheels means that they just lock together, so a small amount of Copaslip means that they are always removeable without excessive force or a longer than standard wheel wrench.

Both our trailers live outside and stand for long periods, we never have any trouble with seized threads. I cannot understand why you wouldn't you put something in the way of anti-seize on the threads?

Peter


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## 1302

747 said:


> This thread is about having a spare tyre.
> 
> It is not an argument about FWD, RWD, Top Gear or who has the smallest willy (usually the first one to mention the word Porsche).
> 
> Pot ... Kettle ... Black.


Because YOU would NEVER veer from the OPs topic would you?

Tiresome troll. :roll:


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## 1302

Another duplicated post.


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## rayc

Pat-H said:


> Techno100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morning folks,
> 
> I would not set off without a spare wheel, I can also change a wheel in half an hour which is useful if out in bandit country or under fire.
> Tyre rotation means that you get 20% extra from your tyres also.
> 
> good luck
> 
> norm
> 
> 
> 
> Tyre rotation is a thing of the past.
> The fronts will always wear faster so when a new pair are needed just move the rears to the front so the new go on the back.
> 
> If you like the expense of replacing all four at once then rotation will help :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Re tyre life: We had our van MOT'd a few weeks back and I mentioned I planned to swap the fronts to the back as the backs look new and the fronts are pat worn. The tyres are stock and the van is an 07 plate so 6 years old or so.
> The MOT guy said I should just replace them as they are over 5 years old.
> I queried if that was law or even an MOT requirement and he said no.
> I then asked if his MOT inspection done 10 minutes earlier had spotted any issues with the tyres and he agreed they were fine.
> I checked with my insurance company and they confirmed that as long as the vehicle passed it's MOT the tyres where fine to use.
> 
> We use our van a few times a months winter and summer so it's always being used so I plan to use the tyres until they have an issue.
> I'm not throwing hundreds of pounds and wasting resources just because...
Click to expand...

I agree;

This is what Michelin say: see "How old is old? The five year test"

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/when-should-i-change-my-tyres


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## rosalan

pneumatician said:


> Listerdiesel, It is a definate No No to replace a wheel using a pneumatic or electric impact wrench. The wheel bolts or nuts must be final torqued with a torque wrench.
> .


The Sunday morning fitter in Spain, that changed my wheel, used a metre long scaffold pole and all his force to tighten my wheel nuts!! Then refused to adjust the tyre pressure (although he had unpacked a compressor) and told me to find a garage.

My wife's impression was that he had a bad hangover to accompany his attitude which clearly indicated that he was annoyed at being called out.

Was I going to argue about not applying the correct Newtons with his non-existent torque wrench? I decided to sort that out later.

Everyone should carry a spare!!! ( even if the fitter messes up)

Alan


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## 1302

rosalan said:


> Everyone should carry a spare!!! ( even if the fitter messes up)
> 
> Alan


Your post reminded me of a couple who limped onto a site in the south of france withna rapiddly deflating rear tyre. They would have been stranded outside the site otherwise. They had no spare hence the urgency. They called a guy out who took it away and returned the same evening with it repaired. They were delighted with this service. The bill was €95 - I asked if a new tyre had been fitted but that was just for a puncture repair!!

Spare all the way.


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## listerdiesel

I'm amazed at how many manufacturers don't supply a full-sized spare wheel, it only takes one puncture and a call-out fee and there's your money saved.

£15 for a puncture repair this week, first one in years.

Peter


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## nicholsong

listerdiesel said:


> I'm amazed at how many manufacturers don't supply a full-sized spare wheel, it only takes one puncture and a call-out fee and there's your money saved.
> 
> £15 for a puncture repair this week, first one in years.
> 
> Peter


Peter

But the manufacturers are saving money and the owner is spending it'

I also wonder how much the cost is a factor compared with the weight saving, which applies to car manufacturers as well, to keep the MIRO down, which also affects the consumption and emission figures when a vehicle is under test for those criteria.

Geoff


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## 1302

nicholsong said:


> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also wonder how much the cost is a factor compared with the weight saving, which applies to car manufacturers as well, to keep the MIRO down, which also affects the consumption and emission figures when a vehicle is under test for those criteria.
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> Its mostly to do with that but I do wonder just how much difference the 15 kg wheel I have just fitted in our car will make given its 360 kg payload capability....
> 
> When they do the fuel consumption test they are allowed to remove the battery, alternator, spare wheel etc anyway - which seems crazy!
Click to expand...


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## 1302

nicholsong said:


> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also wonder how much the cost is a factor compared with the weight saving, which applies to car manufacturers as well, to keep the MIRO down, which also affects the consumption and emission figures when a vehicle is under test for those criteria.
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> Its mostly to do with that but I do wonder just how much difference the 15 kg wheel I have just fitted in our car will make given its 360 kg payload capability....
> 
> When they do the fuel consumption test they are allowed to remove the battery, alternator, spare wheel etc anyway - which seems crazy!
Click to expand...


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## peribro

On my motorhome and most others, it is weight considerations rather than cost that makes the converters provide a tyre repair kit, as I can't imagine that another £100 or so on the sales price is going to make much difference. On my motorhome there is plenty of space in the garage for a spare (which I have now bought) but the effect of another 30kg in the back was to push my rear axles over their max weight. I have therefore spent £300 with SVTech uprating the max weights of the rear axles as well as the GVW. Total cost of the spare wheel about £420!


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## nicholsong

1302 said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also wonder how much the cost is a factor compared with the weight saving, which applies to car manufacturers as well, to keep the MIRO down, which also affects the consumption and emission figures when a vehicle is under test for those criteria.
> 
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> Its mostly to do with that but I do wonder just how much difference the 15 kg wheel I have just fitted in our car will make given its 360 kg payload capability....
> 
> When they do the fuel consumption test they are allowed to remove the battery, alternator, spare wheel etc anyway - which seems crazy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MMMM? A petrol-driven vehicle with no alternator and no battery? - fuel consumption should be very lowfuel  :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Geoff
Click to expand...


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## pneumatician

Lister diesel, 

It is of course your choice on what and where you put your Copaslip. I have a large tub of Copper Ease in my workshop. 

The thread and under head friction are vital components in the application of threaded fasteners. If you then introduce lubrication for the same final torque you will increase bolt tension with the possibility of taking the fastener beyond its yield point or crush the mating surfaces. 
This used to be a regular problem with bolts/ studs breaking.
So lubrication has to be a part of the design consideration. Some Aero Engine fasteners are lubricated, some silver plated. 
Most bolts are of course coated during manufacture. The co-efficients being taken into consideration during design.

The objective of a threaded fastener is to apply the correct clamp force to a joint enough to hold the component parts together without distortsion or danger of becoming loose. 
As I recall torque distribution is approximately 15% thread extension, 30% thread friction, and 50% underhead friction.
To change joint characteristics the one usually fiddled with is the underhead friction.

I am sure if I read your Avatar correctly you know this. 

The question arises if you unfortunately lose a wheel and cause an accident and if the accident investigation people are clued up and the wheel loss was caused by improper practice you could lose your claim or if serious be liable. 
I am not aware of any vehicle manufacturer that advises wheel bolt lubrication.

I agree all tyre fitters use impact wrenches but the must not be used to final torque. Especially the inexpensive ones they use, they cannot be torque set accurately. 

Its been a long time ago now but my job was in part training and supplying the kit to assemble Motor Vehicles and Aeroplanes. Threaded fasteners whilst not the only system was the most common.

Steve


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## listerdiesel

It works both ways.

If you DON'T lubricate the wheel nut/stud and it partially seizes, any applied torque to the nut will be offset by the seizure and will be less than required.

If you DO lubricate the nut/stud, there is less chance of losing a wheel, as the nut is suitably tight than otherwise, but you may possibly overtighten the wheel nut, but that's not an issue for me, I'd rather have a hand-tightened nut that I can feel is tight, rather than one that is questionably tight.

I've had nuts that took a large bar to remove all the way off the stud, just surface corrosion on the threads. Continued corrosion will reduce the thread diameter over time if cleaned off.

The Discovery wheel nuts have floating steel washers between the nut and the wheel face, the wheel is located on a spigot that does have to have anti-seize compound on it.

Trailers are standard conical seat nuts.

Peter


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## Habilis-abilis

I fitted a complete spare under the o/side lounge seat in the E560 with a little bit of wood work.
I like the idea of carrying a spare cover ie. just the tyre though.


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## rosalan

I am now quite concerned. I had a wheel fitted in Spain a few weeks ago, it was on a Sunday morning and the fitter that turned up was not happy being called out; you could tell. 
After putting the replacement wheel on, he applied the latest technology regarding torque settings, which included a four foot long scaffold pole to tighten the nuts. Swinging all his strength on the pole in case they should come loose.
I have seriously wondered about going to my nearest tyre fitter to get them torqued up but am I being neurotic? They are on, the threads not given way and I have driven some 800 miles home since it was fitted.

Alan


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## listerdiesel

I'd get them loosened and re-tightened asap.

Peter


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## nigel67

Always have carried a spare wheel as I don't think the fix and go would have sorted out this 'puncture' I had on the way to Dover.....


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