# Vicarious Book Newsletter



## DJP (May 9, 2005)

hi
I am sure some of you will have received this newsletter today. It is this portion I would like to discuss.

I have been talking to France Passion about the problems caused by people illegally publishing information from the guidebook on the internet. Despite their fears, France Passion will soon be selling coordinate downloads from their website. To protect the coordinates they have employed registration and encryption techniques.
Apparently increasing numbers of non-members are turning up at Passion sites and the publisher does not want to make the situation worse because of coordinates becoming public on the internet. On a positive note we are truly grateful that our customers have respected our intellectual property, as far as we know our information has not been shared.

I have a prediction for you all to ponder over.
I believe that before long everyone will have to log in to the internet before use and that everything that is published online will have a digital fingerprint, thus creating accountability. Personally I look forward to this level of security because it will then be safe for us to sell our unique information digitally. I am not trying to start a debate about this but feel free to post it on the forums for fun. 

It is the prediction that concerns me. Whilst I appreciate any illegal/copying of downloads should be prevented and steps do need to be taken to protect the owners copyright and business interests, if the prediction does prove to become fact and that the ONLY way to obtain the information is via online access, then I would as how one accesses the info whilst out of the UK? If you are spending a month in Europe touring with no set plans then to access the internet on a daily basis my not be possible or at least be very expensive (£5 per day on my contract). 
I have not posted this for some "FUN" but as a serious question about the future usability/viability of Vicarious publications. Assuming I have fully understood the implications.
If the information will only be sold in digital format, how much will the price drop if no printing is involved? Answers accepted in the old fashioned way, back of a £20 note posted to me please.


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## Sandy_Saunders (Nov 17, 2008)

Just wishful thinking by someone with a vested interest in this happening IMHO. 

I have purchased every edition of all the aires France and can understand why they feel that the GPS coordinates are valuable. But it is just fantasy to say that some fantastically complex system will come into place just to help their sales.

Sandy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I read the original and was not at all clear but I will not lose any sleep over it since the chances of a foolproof system being developed is virtually nil.....

if something can be hacked someone, somewhere will hack it......

The idea sounds great, but the practicalities will stop it in it's track - as has been said, to use the inernet every day is a non-starter so people will download everything in advance.......

The information may appear sensitive but as soon as you visit any of the sites you can find your own GPS position and so the original information is no longer "top secret".......

If tracking downloads was so easy then the music industry would have solved the whole problem of illegal downloads - but they haven't in spite of spending massive sums trying to prevent such things.....

Dave


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

French Passion sites

simple

You need to display the current sticker and book

if the sites are not checking we need to ask why??

it's a matter between the sites and published book

I just need to buy it

simples

Aldra


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

aldra said:


> French Passion sites
> 
> simple
> 
> ...


I share your view, if the owners of the France Passion sites are not checking membership that is the fault of the sites and France Passion. If a motorhomer arrives and is unable to prove entitlement, then he should be politely, or rather impolitely, told to go away.
I find it hard to accept that locations have been passed on over the internet as in theory, no non-member would be allowed on site.
As for intellectual property, that is a much used phrase that possibly cannot apply in this case. AFAIK, no site owner is under an exclusive contract to France Passion.
Gerry


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## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*digital age*

We've Known Mel and Chris since they started Vic Books and can understand the frustration when they drive to all the sites and take pics etc and then next month the info appears on web sites ,,but its an unsolvable problem... the answer seems to be focus on the benefits of proper "book guides" and build a loyal customer base.

The big problem seems to be with companies like BRITSTOPS who need publicity badly( as all enterprises do ) but cant allow the location of their sites to be discussed online without a ridiculous level of mis-information and secrecy.

The digital age is merely normal change and you can stand on a soapbox and rant but you will be left behind so quickly .......just look at the recorded music industry( or what's left of it)

sue and andrew


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

most sites are looking for buisiness and do not have an exclusive deal with france passion ie the site at monbazilliac is in both the all the aires and france passion site, pubs here are in both the practical motorhomes stopover guide and the brit stops,
i do not have a problem with people/companies protecting thier endeavours but is a pub really going to say " go away i dont want your buisness your not in this or that scheme" 
i'm a member of the C C not for much longer i think, but on the odd occasion i have used thier CL or CS sites have only once in 8 years been asked for a membership no most take little notice of the 5 van rule etc and use the org to advertise them its a sideline to most.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I agree

it must be a problem

But I am not a charity to go on paying for French Passion, Brit Stops CC etc if others just use them for free

Surely it's the site owners that are to blame

They are the unscrupulous ones and need to have more responsibility to their organisations

Aldra


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

The FP sites are all listed in the french version aires book, without GPS co-ordinates. Wonder why that happens if the hosts only want those who have paid for the book and sticker to use them.
Last time we used one of the 7 vans there only 2, including us, had valid stickers.
Gallic shrug may be only response, especially if products are being bought.

Sue


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## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

What you buy with France Passion or Britstops is a list of landowners who are willing to allow overnight parking for campingcars on their land. Why should someone,s action of purchasing the list preclude the landowner from allowing others to park?
If you find a van on site with no sticker then you have to accept that they may have found it without the book, or are operating on last years book and do not have the latest information.
Jim


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## andyandsue (Sep 7, 2008)

*paradox*

Yes Jimy has got to the root of the paradox it seems. 
Pubs , vineyard,farmshops etc cant be bothered to band together and form an organisation to promote their own overnight parking scheme
.Britstops and French passion do all the leg work and band em all together in a scheme,spend cash printing guides and then sit back and watch the site owners let no-scheme vans stay.

Whilst the problem of websites robbing gps cords from printed guides who visit sites is truely unsolvable, the collective failure of overnight parking sites to organize a good ,fair and profitable scheme is not.
sue and andrew


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Luckily Vicarious Books can't control what site owners allow on their own property or how the internet is used, Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

This really gets my goat. I can understand the FP scheme and Vicarious or whoever runs it doing their best to keep the GPS Co-ordinates a secret (Although to be fair this is ONE of the reasons I never bothered joining as they seem a pain in the neck to find) but you cannot own a GPS position and tell people that the GPS positions of all the Aires in the book belong to Vicarious and you cant share them!

www.campingcar-infos.com has them all anyway as do many sites, even this one! Its a ridiculous statement as is the James Bond fantasy about tracking everyones "digital finger print".

If the farms etc that are in the FP scheme are under no obligation just to let FP Members (and I bet they aren't) on then why the hell should they turn people away who are not members? There are a fair few on campingcarinfos listed that I have seen already. I haven't knowingly stayed on one but would if it suited. I just don't like the idea of feeling obliged to buy stuff (I know a lot don't hassle you but some do).

To me the Aires book is useful. It isn't "All the Aires" but its getting better. Its useful as its a quick offline guide in English with photos. I take all the descriptions with a pinch of salt as what some people consider a "really nice aire" beggars belief. I would rather read the French comments on ccinfos but this isn't always practical.

I doubt if the FP GPS co-ordinates end up on the internet it will ruin the scheme. It may well encourage a few to have a go and then join up. Most people will part with £30 if they think something is worthwhile. I think these people should get over themselves and stop trying to control stuff that is already in the public domain.

Gee. Was that a rant?


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## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

A good one though, Barry!!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

And a very valid one Barry. I think you have earned yourself a Leffe! :wink:

I can't understand the fuss either. If any of these organisations genuinely want to remain *exclusive *to currently paid-up members, all they have to do is issue a membership card and/or a windscreen sticker for the participating sites to verify . . .

. . . *IF* they are that bothered (_as Barry said_) about non-members turning up and spending a few quid with them.

Then if the systems are being "abused", it's down to the participating sites - and if they decide to allow non-members to stay, surely that's up to them!

Dave


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

The problem as I see it is that someone has gone to a lot of work to co ordinate all the parcipitating sites and publishing a guide book

In return they expect to be paid just as you or I would

It is tempting to turn up on last years guide but is that morally right?

Do the sites have to pay a fee to be included?

so on this I'm not sure I agree with Barry

On the other hand it's tempting if that's what others do, I do go to a passion site in Provonce and would continue to do so even if I let my membership lapse, it's a lavender farm and I buy my years supply of lavender oil from them, never managed to see the lavender in flower though as we travel off season

A tip for those with sealed wooden floors, a jug of hot water, a cap of lavender oil, just mop the floor smells divine and leaves a fine sheen on 
the wood

Aldra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well, I have always asked at nice pubs whether we could stay the night and have a meal and never been refused.

I don't know whether any of them were in a schema and I don't care. I was doing it before anyone commercialised the idea and will continue to do so.

If I wanted to buy wine I would do the same at a vineyard.

I like these schemes and have joined several but their operators can't expect to dictate who can or can't stay.

I have no objection to them wanting to keep their information secret but I reserve the right to discuss where we have been and if they don't like it well that's tough, Alan.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

"Apparently increasing numbers of non-members are turning up at Passion sites"......

What is omitted is that often this is at the invitation of the "hosts"

Three times in the last few years we have been told by FP Hosts on departing "please tell your friends about us....it doesn't matter if they're not members-they will be welcome"- and who can blame them really if they have an opportunity of selling their wares in exchange for giving away an overnight stop?

As an aside-although I've joined FP and have my 2013 pack I'm not bothering with the GPS "supplement". Bit of a cheek to charge for membership, then extra for the privilege of the GPS co-ords. (imo)


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Telbell said:


> I'm not bothering with the GPS "supplement". Bit of a cheek to charge for membership, then extra for the privilege of the GPS co-ords. (imo)


Dont worry. When it appears on the internet in a couple of weeks Ill just post it on here and you can download it! :lol:

JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE! *

* probably


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## bigfrank3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I regularly visit a FP site and the owner tells me it cost him 40 euro a year to be in the book. I'm not surprised he allow anyone to stop.

Frank


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