# Fridge & step not working



## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi everyone, hope someone can help. We've just discovered that the fridge and the step are not working. The gas ignitor on the fridge also doesn't work. It's not running 240, 12v or gas. We've checked the fuses and they are okay, I assume these failures are related and wonder if anyone has any ideas. Could it be a relay switch and if so where are they?

Thanks all


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## colpot (Jun 9, 2008)

It could be the fuse under the bonnet - we had an issue with our Swift Sundace step and it tuned out to be the connection to the fuse in the Engine Compartment under the air filter (Fiat Ducato)
I believe there is a fuse there for the Fridge on 12v as well.


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Try Having a look under this cover

Alan H


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

THanks for the responses...would that fuse mean that the fridge wouldn't work on any setting? And it is probably a coincidence that both the fuse for the fridge and the fuse for the step both went?


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Alan, is that where the relay is or fuses? If it's relay, how can you tell if its no longer working?


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## GEOMAR (Mar 16, 2008)

*fridge and step not workinr*

I had the same problems in my autotrail miami and under the seating area behind passenger seat there are 2 black relays and I removed them from their holders and put them back in again and everything has been ok since , Good luck
Regards
GEOMAR


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## Bernies (Mar 22, 2007)

Hi we have ahd a similar problem I've been told by our dealer it's a problem with the EM50 interface box. The box in our Cherokee is behind the driver's seat, the box if it is that has to be sent back to sargent for repair. I hope this help's just waiting for our's to be sent back.

regards

Bernie :lol: :lol:


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Just been set this task to sort out by Dawn and looking at the wiring diagram I notice that both the fridge and step have a common circuit with the EMC relay. Now, does anyone know wher the EMC relay is on an Apache and how best I can check it?

Roger


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

*More investigations*

I've checked all of the fuses both motorhome and vehicle and all are ok. Everything else is working in the motorhome, lights, heating, pump cooker etc. The only things nor working are the fridge (not on 230v, 12v or gas), the step (although it did retract when the engine was started and interestingly enough the little light in the Sargent cubbyhole that is my understanding completely independent of everthing else.


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Shamelessly bumping since the site was playing up over the weekend in the hopes that someone can help.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

On our Cheyenne there is a relay for the step that is located behind the fridge,it can be accessed by removing the ventilation grill,not sure if it controls the fridge as well but may be worth a look.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

All these problems are ignition related. 

When working:

The step is retracted with ignition on
The EMC relay cuts out circuits that the manufacturer didn't want to operate when on the road (ignition on)
The fridge is powered on 12V with the ignition on. 

A few other observations

Fridge ignitors need a 12V supply even when on gas.
I have seen at least one van use the fridge relay to switch between 12V and mains. To prevent two heaters in the fridge being on at once. 
Traditionally these functions were carried out with three separate relays and fuses.
Sometimes the split charge system which also requires an ignition on signal is part of this as well
Traditionally these functions were carried out with three separate relays
The D+ feed from the alternator was used to provide a 12V to act as an ignition on signal.

Now I know I probably haven't told you anything you don't know but sometimes it helps to put it all down. Even if your van is different


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

You don't state what model year your Apache is?
On my 2005 Apache there are two relays at the top of the engine compartment at the left hand side. They stick out as being added by Autotrail ie not standard Fiat relays, as they are mounted onto a wiring loom.
One is the split charge relay to charge the leisure batteries whilst engine running. The other is to supply 12V to the fridge with engine running. Could well supply the power to auto retract the step also.
You will need a voltmeter to check the relays are switching when engine is started or maybe a dodgy connection.



Trevor


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## tulsehillboys (Jul 22, 2010)

check the wiring has not chaffed and cut through somewhere - follow wiring back to source...


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

trevorf said:


> You don't state what model year your Apache is?
> On my 2005 Apache there are two relays at the top of the engine compartment at the left hand side. They stick out as being added by Autotrail ie not standard Fiat relays, as they are mounted onto a wiring loom.
> One is the split charge relay to charge the leisure batteries whilst engine running. The other is to supply 12V to the fridge with engine running. Could well supply the power to auto retract the step also.
> You will need a voltmeter to check the relays are switching when engine is started or maybe a dodgy connection.
> ...


Thank you Trevor (and Frank and everyone else  )

It's 2004 Apache 700 and I've found the two relays you mentioned adjacent to the obvious Autotail added fuses (which I've checked and verified they're OK)

Not quite sure how to check to see if they work whilst they are in situ, kind of tight fitting. I suppose an easy check would be for me to go to a motor factors and get a new one then I could check both by substitution.


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## Sargent (Feb 1, 2008)

Hi Dawnwynne our technical people should be able to help with the diagnosis. they will have the drawings and necessary info to track down what is causing the problem.
[email protected] or telephone 01482 678981

Best regards

Ian Sargent


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Thank you very much Ian, Roger will contact them as soon as he can. I'm sure he'll be in great hands now!


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Wynne,

I have just fixed a similar problem, it was the EM50 there are plugs within the em50, its not too difficult just remember to take of the 240v as a precaution, and do not wear rings and stuff.

All the best


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Thanks Steco, I will make sure Roger sees your reply...it gives us another possibility which is great.


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Spoke with Steco yesterday, thanks Steve, and Sargent Electrics who suggested that I replace the relays under the bonnet and also check the one behind/under the PSU2005.

To cut a long story short, replaced both relays under the bonnet, checked all fuses again but alas no joy.

Next task was to look at the relay behind/under the PSU2005 unit and noticed that there was a 'crimped' pairing of cables underneath. Red to Brown/Yellow and Black to White/Orange. Interestingly, the circuit diagram I had downloaded from the Sargent website doesn't describe any Brown/Yellow cabling so out came the multimeter to see if the circuit was live.................nope no current at all. Does anyone have a clue what this circuit is for, possibly the light in the cabinet which isn't working anymore?










Anyway, onwards..........................
When I replaced the relay behind/under the PSU (please bear in mind that before I replaced any of the relays whether under the bonnet or here I ensured that everything was switched off etc, just in case) resulted in having no 12v power at all in the motorhome, what I mean is that everything that worked before, lights, pump etc didn't work. So I reconnected the old relay and voila lights, pump etc back in business.

Unfortunately Sargent's technical line isn't open over the weekend so do I now suspect the it's my PSU 2005 that has gone dodgy?

Roger


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## Sargent (Feb 1, 2008)

Good Afternoon,

Can you please give me a call on the Sargent Technical Support number 01482 678981 and I will try to assist you.

Kind Regards,

Clive


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Thanks Clive, I will try to contact you Wednesday or Thursday dependent upon work commitments

Roger


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

I cannot praise Clive at Sargent highly enough, he was very patient and concise with helping me identify what could be the cause of my issues and went far beyond what one could expect particularly as a 2004 Apache is well out of warranty.

He even provided me with a wealth of circuit diagrams which enabled me to do some proper fault tracking.

All I can say is that I can't praise Sargent enough for their customer care.

Using the circuit diagrams, I traced that mysterious Brown/Yellow cable and discovered a 'hidden' 5 amp fuse concealed amongst the mass of cables behind the control panel beside the door entrance. Simple fuse change and viola, fridge, cubby hole light sprang into life. 

An additional although possibly unneeded bonus is that I now also have two brand new relays under the bonnet and another behind the PSU2005 unit. Should last a few more years :lol: 

My one and only fault outstanding is the step is still not functioning.

I now suspect its the controlling relay listed on the circuit diagrams that Clive sent me. Trouble is, I can't seem to find this elusive relay, does anyone know where it might be?


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi ya... It might be an idea to have a look at the steep motor housing, inside that may be the control relay so might be worth have a look there checking for volts on the larger cables first, then is a matter of tracing the control cables after that.... Just a thought, well that's the route I would go down first.... Best of luck...


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

dawnwynne said:


> I can't seem to find this elusive relay, does anyone know where it might be?


On my 04 Cheyenne it is behind the fridge,you can get access to it externally by removing the fridge vents and getting in there.


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## dawnwynne (Nov 14, 2009)

Finally traced the outstanding fault with the step. 

Couldn't really beleive it but is was simply a loose connection to the fuse under the bonnet.

A sincere thank you to all those who have offered their kind advice in helping me trace the faults.

I wouldn't be suprised if this loose connection actually caused the problems and fuse to go in the first place but at least it's all fixed now and I have three spare relays. :lol:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

dawnwynne said:


> Finally traced the outstanding fault with the step.
> 
> Couldn't really beleive it but is was simply a loose connection to the fuse under the bonnet.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear that you managed to get sorted Roger, and that Clive at Sargent was able to help you out.

Best regards,

Jock.


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