# Fridge fans



## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

My fridge struggled a bit on gas during the hottest part of this summer, so I'm going to rig a computer fan to blow the hot air out of the top vent, as guided by previous threads.

I have bought a 12 volt 90mm fan, but it has 3 wires, red black and yellow. All the ones on ebay seem to have 3 or 4 wires.

Can I assume that red and black are the usual suspects for + and -, but what is the yellow for? Do I need it or can I just cut it off short?

Yoohoo, Peter? (other advisers are available)


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

IIRC, the yellow wire is a "trigger" connection when used in a desktop computer. I snipped our yellow ones off and as you say, red is +ve, black is -ve.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, what Deefor said.

I didn't bother with a thermostat - the weather is either too hot or it isn't, so I thought it was an unnecessary refinement.

I wired the fan through an illuminated switch (_from Maplin_) and in the hot weather I just switched it on early in the morning and left it until after I got into bed . . . which was invariably when I noticed the illuminated switch and had to get out of bed to switch it off. _(If I fit one to this van the switch will be next to the pillow!!)_

From experience I found it more effective to *keep *the fridge cool from early morning, rather than wait until it was scorching hot and try to cool it down then.

Hope this helps

Dave


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

Tugger's can you take pictures as you go? I have thought about doing this mod on my van and if you are prepared to do all the thinking work for me I'll be obliged. >


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have just bought a double fan with thermostat and switch and the module varies the speed as the temperature rises with an intial trigger temperature for the automatic operation of 29C.

ODB quoted more than £40 plus postage, I bought one locally for 45€ which equates to about £37.

I will report on how easy it is to fit, but the whole thing looks neat and the initial trigger temperature can be varied easily to a lower or higher level.....

There are ONLY 2 wires to connect - a positive and a negative (red and black) both VERY thin as it only requires 1mm sq wire for the low power consumption.

Dave


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Geriatricbackpacker said:


> Tugger's can you take pictures as you go? I have thought about doing this mod on my van and if you are prepared to do all the thinking work for me I'll be obliged. >


Lazy git!>

I might consider it for a fee. £99-99p to you, sir!:grin2:

Acksherly, I might do you a special FC rate.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks for the info and advice. I've started putting things together, taking photos as I go. I'll post the procedure with pictures when I've got it up and running. I fancy the hardest part may be finding a suitable place to instal the switch.

Hopefully there won't be any photos of the Fire Brigade attending Tugboat Towers!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

tugboat said:


> I fancy the hardest part may be finding a suitable place to instal the switch.
> :


I have the same decision to make and it's not an easy one to answer;

my first choice would be to run the wires behind the cooker to the side panel near the door, but access behind the cooker would be very difficult...

second choice - up near the ECU unit above the door - but rather too distant and the wires are not log enough

so probably third choice straight above under the microwave unit but not easy access again, still no urgency to do it now as the weather is hardly up to the level where it would be needed....

I will be interested to see where you decide to put it....

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

To fit fans the easiest way is to pick up your 12v feed and earth from the fridge itself, just extend the live to go through a switch, the rest is just fitting it and will depend on your van set up, I fitted mine (3 fans) to a bit of 5 mm ply did all the wiring away from the van, then screwed the ply to the top edge of the vent opening.

Some pics from my self build, as said the red/black wires are the only ones you use, snip the others.




























Interior fan, fed from same switch wires fed in through the water drain, it did get tidied up later this was just a trial to see if it worked and it did, temp about 5 degrees lower with internal fan but you do need to leave a little space for air flow.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi kev

what fans did you use

i have got some 120mm fans for my fridge

they are not the fastest speed at around 1600 rpm but i found the faster ones noisy


like the internal fan may try a small fan there

barry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

powerplus said:


> hi kev
> 
> what fans did you use
> 
> ...


Mine were all 100mm, but some use 90mm, it's the bearing which makes most of the noise though as it transfers through the vans body.

http://www.quietpc.com/92mmfans


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi Tugboat

As has been said; you don't need the third wire, the third wire function is to report the RPM of the fan back to the motherboard in a computer, after cutting it off, tape the end up as the fan will emit a positive pulse on it twice per revolution.
@Kev
great pictures Kev

Lee

p.s. the label in the center of the fan is the direction the air comes out of the fan, if you look really carefully on the endge of the fan there are usually two faint black arrows; one showing the direction the fan spins, the other the direction of air flow.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

lgbzone said:


> p.s. the label in the center of the fan is the direction the air comes out of the fan, if you look really carefully on the endge of the fan there are usually two faint black arrows; one showing the direction the fan spins, the other the direction of air flow.


It also needs to blow outwards > at the top vent, some fit it to blow in at the bottom, it does work, but not as well, you can also suck in insects and moisture.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Some pics from my self build, as said the red/black wires are the only ones you use, snip the others.


Blimey Kev, 3 x fans, people will be blown over as they walk past your van >

I only have one fitted to mine, never felt the need for more, it works fine, even in some seriously hot climates.

Just sayin'

Pete


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I fitted two 12V computer type fans, wired in series.

Why? Because at 12V they are just too noisy.

In series they run at half cock, make very little noise and still provide sufficient air-flow.

I mounted them using rubber grommets to further reduce the noise.

Frankly it is easier to fit a thermostat than it is to faff about running wires to a manual switch.

I too fitted an internal fan inside the fridge compartment with the wires running through the condensation outlet. Very effective at distributing the coolth.

Because I am fairly clued up on electronics I decided to find a 5V and 12V source that are only live when the fridge is actually running.

There is a myriad of interconnecting wires between the rear power unit and the front control touch panel.

I found both! The 0V source was also there.

I used Scotchlok® connectors to tap in.

The internal fan is a 5V one so that was simple.

The thermostat and rear fans require 12V so that was simple too.

The result? Total automatic operation!

I am very reluctant to post details of the wiring because unless you are very technical it could all go horribly wrong. A new control unit costs a staggering amount of Dometic £s!!


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

The picture of Kev's three fan unit reminds me that you must not place them such that they interfere with the gas flue outlet.

When I was a student at Bristol in '63-'65 they were testing the Concorde engines, even at night.

I think Kev's fans might sound about the same!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

peejay said:


> Blimey Kev, 3 x fans, people will be blown over as they walk past your van >
> 
> I only have one fitted to mine, never felt the need for more, it works fine, even in some seriously hot climates.
> 
> ...


Mine was fridge freezer Pete, so I reckoned it'd need more help, never got ot test it hot climes as we sold the van, but he reckons it's well up to the job in southern France.

Just sayin'


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

pippin said:


> I fitted two 12V computer type fans, wired in series.
> 
> Why? Because at 12V they are just too noisy.
> 
> ...


A bit different to mine, seems to work for you, but I abhore Scotchloks, bettr to solder and use and use shrink tubing or proper crimp terminals .


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

[

I fitted an illuminated switch to the fridge controls fascia.

Picked up positive and negative from the Fridge's 12 volt supply. Negative straight across top of fridge positive through the switch.
This kept everything local to the fridge and avoided long wiring runs.
Fan has its own thermostat so is on or off, but speed automatically increases with ambient temperature. The fan unit is secured to the cooler pipework with plastic ties.

PS. To remove fascia pull off control knobs, securing screws are at bottom of knob recesses, one each.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

That's a good wheeze, Spacy, unfortunately no good for me as my fridge is behind a door that matches the rest of the furniture. I'm almost tempted to take the darned thing off, but it wouldn't look very nice.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> [
> 
> I fitted an illuminated switch to the fridge controls fascia.
> 
> ...


Hmm, fastened to the pipework, that's a novel idea, bit more fiddly but might work well though.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Kev- I too abhor Scotchdoodahs, I just used the term so people would get an idea of what I meant.

What I now use for virtually all connections, from mains downwards) are Wago connectors.

NOT the push-fit ones, they are not so good for thin stranded wires as the wire is not stiff enough to push in properly.

The ones to use are the ones with tabs that one lifts up before inserting the wires.

When the little levers are pressed down, the wires will NEVER budge.

However pulling the lever back up allows the wire(s) to be released at any time.

They are great because no tools are needed (except to strip the wires first) and can be fitted virtually one-handed.

No faffing around with choccy blocks with their fiddly little screws which also usually need three hands to fit/remove.

These things will handle up to 30A at 600V.






If you watch the follow-on then you will see the Wago Box which strictly speaking you would need for mains voltages.

Even better than sliced bread!


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Yes!

Those Wago connectors are great.
I've used them for making mains connections in the past and recently in our new motorhome for some 12volt connections. Remember you need the three way ones to make a branch connection and you have to cut the cables.

When I was rummaging in a top cupboard of our van a plastic cover came off a junction box and I discovered it was full of Wago connectors so Knaus think they are good enough for the original build. Definitely quicker than choc blocks.

I must sort out the bits for my fridge fan before next summer!

Steve


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

It's obviously important to use vibration-proof connectors in a vehicle. I had intended to solder my joints that weren't going to be disturbed again, but those Wago connectors are good value. I was expecting them to be more expensive.

Thanks, Pippin, for that info.

Thanks also to Spacerunner for showing where to pick up the power supply.

I need to find out where that supply comes from and how it is fused.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have never heard of Wago connectors before so will have to have a look round here to see if such things exist in rural France.....

mind you I HOPE I only need a small number for this.....

so far none of the usual suppliers seem to have them listed.....

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Mon ami - les connecteurs Wago sont fabrique en Allemagne.

Tu dois rechercher au Ebay.fr & Ebay.de.

Ils ne sont pas cher.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Wago are good, but I've not used them so far as it means a trip to Farnells or RS round here, so I solder or terminate, sometime chocolate blocks.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I remember when Wago were trying to break into the electrical wholesale market years ago and I tried to sell them. They seemed like a great idea to me over the other methods of cable connection however like a number of new things, there was resistance (excuse the pun).

Talk of these and RS and Farnell brings it all back to me:smile2:

Graham:smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GMJ said:


> I remember when Wago were trying to break into the electrical wholesale market years ago and I tried to sell them. They seemed like a great idea to me over the other methods of cable connection however like a number of new things, there was resistance (excuse the pun).
> 
> Talk of these and RS and Farnell brings it all back to me:smile2:
> 
> Graham:smile2:


Good for connecting a bunch of wires together, but what would you use to connect a pair of wires say + & - tom extend them, do Wago do anything for that job?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

If I read you right Kev then we used to sell connector blocks in strips of 12 which you just cut off as many as you wanted. They were in line connectors and came in natural and black; and in amp carry sizes from 2a up to 32a from memory. They were screwed though not push in.

By cutting a pair you could match + and +; and - and - rather neatly (making sure to get the right ones in the right holes. 

For push in maybe Klippon/Weidmuller do something (if they still exist). Another connector company we used was Phoenix.

I expect the market has moved on since mind as it was a few years ago that I was in it.

Graham:smile2:


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi 

just looked on ebay and they are on there


wago


barry


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

I fitted a system similar to "Kev & Liz's about ten yrs ago after visiting Italy in the heat. Fortunately I had, in those days,a regular supply of PC power supplies so cost was nominal. I switch manually as required.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

OK, job is finished and working fine.

First thing I did was remove the top vent cover and check the space behind.









Here are the parts I purchased from ebay.
2 of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280920012028?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

1 of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261513977...49&var=560391577650&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I had plenty of wire, leucars, soldering kit etc in my man cave.

I initially intended to mount the fans side by side joined with cable ties, but then decided to split them to cover a larger area of the cooling fins.

Taped them in place to check the grille would fit OK.









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￼
I carefully drilled through the slats of the grille, and used small cable ties to attach the fans. I pulled them good and tight to avoid rattles, then rigged a motorbike battery to test run them and make sure they ran smoothly.








￼
I checked Youtube for the wiring of the switch. 
The switch has one brass coloured contact, connect to Earth( -ve) and the fan black lead
Centre contact, connect to red fan lead
Other end contact, connect to positive supply.

My main problem was where to mount the switch. I eventually decided to fit it through the top corner of the locker door next to the fridge. It kept wiring fairly short to minimise voltage drop in the small section wires.

I had been looking through the outside grilles for wiring to get a power supply, with no luck, and had resigned myself to running a cable direct to a leisure battery, but thanks to Spacerunner I found the wiring on top of the fridge by removing the control panel.
I wasn't keen to link into the very small (grey) cable that he used, but the supply (black insulation) to the other side of the chocblock had just enough slack for me to bare the 2 wires within and solder the fan supply onto those.
Sorry for fuzzy pic, macro not working properly.
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I connected the fans using leucar connectors so the grille could be removed if necessary. Note the connectors are fitted opposite ways so the wiring can only be connected correctly. Insulated connectors so no possibility of shorting.








￼
Then, the fitting of the switch and the worry of having the drill through the locker door. I used a new 20mm flat bit, but it still tried to tear the laminate. I drilled from front and back to the centre of the panel to minimise damage, but you can see the back is a little ragged. I may see if I can find a small cap to cover it.
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And finally the switch in place. The LED is good and bright so unlikely to be missed.
















￼
The only thing left to do now is check where the power supply to the fridge comes from. As it's permanently live, it may come from the hab battery or from the fuse box on the dash, passenger side.

Incidentally, according to the labels on the fans, they are rated at 0.25 amps. I checked the draw with both running and it was 0.625 amps, so if left running for 12 hours on a hot day they would consume 7.5 AmpHours.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Just a couple of points Geoff.

Is that a gas pipe I can see through the top vent, if so it looks super dodgy to me, A there should be NO flexible gas pipe other than inside a gas locker or to a refillable cylinder in or under the van, and it also has no Jubilee or other type of clip to stop it flying off.

The fitting of the fans etc looks fine to me though.

Flat drill bits are fine for drilling floor boards etc to poke cable or pipes through but for that job you need a step drill, Aldi/Lidl do a decent set of 3 every so often, I did my build and they are still going strong similar to these the trick is to drill from both sides if poss, as it tidies it all up.

I took my power from the 12v connector block near the bottom of the fridge, there should be two lots one would be for when you run on 12v while driving the other is for the internal light if it has one and for the igniter to re-ignite the gas should it blow out etc.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Just a couple of points Geoff.
> 
> Is that a gas pipe I can see through the top vent, if so it looks super dodgy to me, A there should be NO flexible gas pipe other than inside a gas locker or to a refillable cylinder in or under the van, and it also has no Jubilee or other type of clip to stop it flying off.
> 
> ...


Looks like a pvc shrouded copper pipe and not a flexible pipe to me kev. Had some of it on a caravan I had.

Terry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

dghr272 said:


> Looks like a pvc shrouded copper pipe and not a flexible pipe to me kev. Had some of it on a caravan I had.
> 
> Terry


Yes could be Terry, but you know what some owners are like, buggering about with things and making them dangerous, Tuggs is OK so I'd like to keep him around a bit longer > >


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

Tugger's a good update thanks . The photographs make things easier for me to visualise when I come to doing mine.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Get yersel' down to Specsavers, Kev!

It is indeed a copper pipe with a plastic sleeve. Also in my text I did say that I drilled from both sides. I had expected the ctters on the sides of the flat bit to cut the veneer before the bit started working properly, but the screw on the tip was sharp (being new) and drew the bit into the material faster than I expected. Lesson learned.

A step drill set would be a good addition to the toolkit though, thanks for the idea.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Tuggers: Dude...you've got WAY too much time on your hands mate:grin2:

Nice looking job though...you just need some real heat in order to try it out. Seems like a GREAT excuse to get yourself abroad to somewhere hot:smile2:

Graham:smile2:


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am truly impressed with the multiple fans arrays but when will I need them? In August (fanless) in Gelves, Seville, the temperature in the morning was 38c. My fridge and freezer never lost their cool. I always park with the sun on the other side of the van which may help. The only problem was when using gas, the little condensation bottle overflowed, so switched to hook-up and that worked. I was advised to extend the plastic pipe that goes into the bottle so that excess water runs onto the road and not onto the hidden bodywork.
Dometic Fridge Freezer

Alan


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Well, my ice cubes were melting in July in Buckinghamshire. So there. I nearly declared a national emergency.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Sorry to hear that Tuggy, perhaps if you moved the fans that block the vents, the air could circulate better. Ooops! I didn't mean to say that


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

tugboat said:


> Well, my ice cubes were melting in July in Buckinghamshire. So there. I nearly declared a national emergency.


That's what happens if you don't turn the fridge on during the UK's winter sorry summer, my mistake.....

Mind you we have now turned our fridge down from MAX to 3 as the cucumbers were freezing and what can you do with a frozen cucumber?

Answers please on a postcard to my MrsW...........

and keep them clean please (the ideas not the cucumbers....).....

The average temperature in August was around 36C here and the fridge did not cope, it is now around 13C so the fans are not essential at present... I do like your fitment into the cupboard door - not a place I had considered but our switch is rectangular and about 3 x 7 cm........

Great pictures and description though thank you,

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

As I mentioned - if you use a thermostat then

YOU DON'T NEED TO FAFF AROUND RUNNING WIRES TO SWITCHES AND MAKING DODGY HOLES IN WOODWORK!

For six quid or so you can get a kit that is very easy to make if you can solder:

http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/mk...13?ost=thermostat+kit&categoryId=700000008037

For a tenner I would make them up for you and send them to you.

It's a no-brainer!


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

pippin said:


> As I mentioned - if you use a thermostat then
> 
> YOU DON'T NEED TO FAFF AROUND RUNNING WIRES TO SWITCHES AND MAKING DODGY HOLES IN WOODWORK!
> 
> ...


Don't shout, Pippin, my brain hurts!

I had bought the parts before anyone mentioned thermostatic doodads but, even if I had known about them, I think I would still have used my set-up. I prefer the KISS principle in an attempt to escape Murphy's Law as much as possible. Others may have a differtent approach, but I think there is enough stuff to go wrong already, without adding unnecesary delicate electronics.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Here ya go Geoff

https://www.aldi.co.uk/typo3temp/pics/W44_PD_Sunday_New_UK9_308f56925d.jpg


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks, Kev, we've recently had a new Aldi opened a few miles from me, so I'll pop along next Sunday. Previously it would have meant a 60 odd mile round trip so not worth.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

tugboat said:


> Thanks, Kev, we've recently had a new Aldi opened a few miles from me, so I'll pop along next Sunday. Previously it would have meant a 60 odd mile round trip so not worth.


Why not subscribe to the emailng list for Aldi & Lidl Tuggs, they often have quite decent tools more than good enough for DIY jobs, most have a 3 year warranty too, half my garage is equipped by them.


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