# Panel van converter would like your suggestions



## Mandale

Recently we have started carrying out panel van conversions and would like your suggestions on what is important to you in a panel van based motorhome. 

We have completed our first two berth model which can be seen on our website. 

We are looking to you the motorhome community for feed back on this model and suggestions for our future models.

All feed back is welcome good, bad and indifferent.

Can I take this opportunity to thank you for your suggestions in advance and would be happy to answer any questions you may have.


We would like to know your views on things like:

W/C and wash rooms (how big and are they important in a small motorhome)
Do you require a shower (or is it a nice extra).
Oven, hob and grill (how important are they to you and do you need all three).
Heating and hot water (is this a must and do you mind using your gas / diesel when on HU or do you prefer 240v/gas systems).


Please feel free to add to this list in your sugestions.


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## greenasthegrass

Our next van will be a panel one am sure. We would like a shower but one that the loo and washbasin fold to the side Autotrail have one with a vanity unit that at the back of that forms a side to the shower very ingenious we thought. We could live without an oven as we have a double skillet but need somewhere to store one.

Also combi truma both on ehu and gas would be good and in red please the van not the Truma!

Thats the thoughts of the greenie household. 

Greenie!


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## EJB

You seem to have posted twice! :wink:


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## Mandale

Its that F5 refresh button!

I pressed it to go back a page and the site double posted for me. Bad F5 button.


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## spartacus

I think you've done an excellent job for a first "effort", you seem to have packed a lot in to a small space using quality materials resulting in an attractive well thought out and finished vehicle.

When I first started looking at motorhomes I could never understand why anyone would buy a PVC compared to a coachbuilt which seemed to offer much more for less money. Now, however, I am beginning to appreciate the virtues of such a vehicle and also why they are more expensive to build. When we downsize from our current coachbuilt motorhome it will be to a PVC and I would want the following:

Functional shower.
Hob only with a grill secondary and an oven a long way third.
Definitely need non mains space and water heating preferably with diesel option.
Option of compressor fridge.
Strict two berth, ie no gimmicky travel seats/belts

I suppose layout is key but also very subjective. Following that, design flair combined with quality and functionality of materials providing a very durable and solid conversion is what would get my attention. 

Given all that I guess the Murvi Morello is the benchmark.


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## Perseus

You are very close to IH Motor Campers. May I suggest that you pop along to their premises and have a really good look at the second-hand vans they have for sale.

IH (Ian Hartley) has to be the undisputed king of the panal van conversions. Definitely the mark to aim for. Ignore the hangers-on, just follow what IH are doing and you cannot go wrong as he has proved by the numerous MMM awards he's got.


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## rowley

The tambour doors on the overhead cupboards is a good idea. yours look very similar to the Wildax.
I would not go for a compressor fridge unless I had a large solar system and the weather was bright. Oven grill is useful. We have never used our shower although it might come in useful.
240v/gas for me on heating.


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## Techno100

Got any vacancies 8)


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## sallytrafic

I would have a compressor fridge or if not an lpg tank underslung. (gas prices were never a problem when I had a compressor fridge.

If diesel heated then a big enough battery to support fan pumps and ignitor (2 x 110Ahr)

Solar panel 

But basically I'm falling into the trap of wanting too much

So no grill or oven 

Hot water only if you want a shower option and with a small base vehicle then it's too big a space waster to have one.

We had a Romahome hytop for around 14 years it was a genuine two berth no shower or hot water 3 way fridge only the vehicle battery and ehu propex gas heated two hob and grill and two camping gaz 907's and it filled the bill very well. 

So I reckon there's still a market for that type of van (children left the nest and before grandchildren come along.

I would still have an lpg tank though, a bigger battery solar panel and diesel heating.


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## Jennifer

I have an autocruise panel, and this is my third vehicle, having downsized from A class and coachbuilt.

What I would like is:

No shower, just toilet and small washbasin:
More larger storage area in place of the shower to carry relaxer chair/outdoor table/chairs
Electric heating and water, no gas whatsoever
No cooker, but microwave and halogen oven, fitted
More electric power points to take (not all at the same time obviously) slow cooker and steamer.
Larger fridge/freezer obviously working off battery when travelling.
Not cream coloured carpets.
Swivel passenger and driver seat.
Two berth only - or suitable for just for one.

When you design and make this model, not more than 6 mtr, please let me know, as I will be first in line to purchase.

Jenny


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## mandyandandy

Our dream would be a Mondial RL - 3 berth, in other words long single beds at back, single in front with seatbelts for 3 in total. 

Fridge/freezer would be a must, not bothered about shower in one that size but loo a must, don't need oven just a grill is fine as that is all we have now and not a problem. 

I have been dreaming of this van for 2 years not but always something missing.  

Mandy


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## Jennifer

Mods please, this thread has been posted twice, can it be combined!!!!


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## bognormike

after receiving a couple of reports, I've merged the two posts / threads, Hopefully it makes sense now...


PS please use the report button to draw things like this to our attention - we don't watch every thread, and rely on the members to point out things like this.

Mike
Mods team


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## tubbytuba

I'm quite sure you have studied all the manufacturers websites, so all I can do is give a wholehearted reccomendation for everything in the design, layout and quality of Vantage conversions. 
Good luck, the more choice we have the better :wink:


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## Andysam

I've got a bit of an insight into this we had an Autocruise Vista 4 berth, got rid of that (correct term for that van) for a Reimo converted VW T5 LWB, then swapped that for our Chausson.

I think your vans will mainly be aimed at couples. We have a young family (3 under 11) and from our point of view in a camper we needed (read had as our T5 was a custom build):

Compressor fridge
Cold water
6/7kg gas storage
Storage (overhead lockers)
Swivel front seats
Wide rear bench seat (130cm) but still with side cupboards
An awning rail (Reimo multirail)- essential for the ubiquitous Kyham Motordome
Buddy seat/potti box
Twin hi-capacity deep discharge batteries
Heavy tint rear glass (Almost, but not quite limo tint)
50 ltr water tank
NO waste tank- we don't see the value in carrying waster water.
Fully insulated body voids

We often talked about a wish list to fully kit out that van:

A toilet cubicle? Not possible in our traditional layout.
A shower? Not internally but a rear mounted shower for showering to a curtain attached to the rear tailgate as in the Reimo awning http://www.reimo.com/en/90013-cabin_for_tailgate_vw_t4_t5/
Mini grill/oven (not possible for us due to storage issues)
Heater (We had a propex for cost but ideally a Eberspacher/webasto, we camped all year around down to -7C in an elevating roof!)
All LED lighting
Solar panel

I would stress however that was our wish list for OUR needs (5 of us plus dog- see why we have gone bigger?!)

As a couple only we also discussed what we would like in a camper which was similar except:
Shower room with folding basin 
Opposing rear side facing dinette/bed (I don't know whether the Toyota is wide enough for that)
Full depth store cupboards
High level cupboards

We absolutely did not want a 3 way fridge (due to holes in the van), similarly we wished we had the mains electric point concealed underneath the van. (Again no holes in the van= less chance of corrosion)

Hopefully a few thoughts for you there BUT a fully specced van like that will bump up the price hugely.


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## brillopad

Am i missing something here, as i cant see the van that every one's talking about,i seem to get this a lot, people talk about things on here that i can't see.

Dennis


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## smick

Try Googling "mandale motorhomes" Dennis - it's a Toyota, currently being advertised on Autotrader.

Too small from our point of view,as we like to have a bit of space around us, with two collies cluttering up the place. However, there's some nice touches, and the quality of the workmanship looks good. Nice to see a proper cutlery drawer in place ! 

Don't like:
Open shelves - gather dust, everything falls off them
Three way fridges - need holes in the bodywork
Lack of access cab to living area - try this layout in a thunderstorm!
Cupboards filled with electrical gear - one tends to try and store tools / shoes / dog leads etc in there when there isn't enough space!

Like:
Excellent overhead cabinets - best place to store things, easiest to access.
Upholstery
Layout is novel

Forget:
Electric steps
Shower - (toilet/sink adequate for us)
Light coloured carpets

As previous poster said - Look at the Murvi for good layout - but look at IH for quality of finish. If you consider what they're doing and match them, you won't be far adrift. 

Looking through some of the German van designs might give you some ideas too: CS-Reisemobile, Domo, Westphalia, HRZ. They all have aspects which are done differently to British vans, and some of them work well.

Hope the ideas work out.

Smick


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## Andysam

brillopad said:


> Am i missing something here, as i cant see the van that every one's talking about,i seem to get this a lot, people talk about things on here that i can't see.
> 
> Dennis


Click the WWW icon at the bottom of his OP.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Firstly, the very best in your venture.

The first thing I might need is you guys in my van to show me what to do :roll: :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink: :wink:

But seriously, we just bought one to convert so a subject near to our hearts, and we're also looking for good advice.

Our build thread eventually

Most important is a decent shower/toilet combo, we prefer the Thetford bench as it's more stable. tip up basin is fine, a mirrored cupboard which doesn't commit suicide if you stop in a hurry or go round a corner with gusto, central plug hole in shower tray if poss and anywhere else for that matter and enough room to bend over and/or turn around, possibly even a small ledge to sit on to wash feet, we're not all young peeps after all, good hot air feed which actually gets the shower room warm in winter.

I'm with Frank, Hot water only if you want a shower, and heat only if you've just had one, stupid and wasteful to have both on if not needed.

A good high litre water heater/blown air system, with a sensibly placed thermostat, our is over the fixed bed so handy to turn on if it gets a bit nippy, good water feed to shower.

A kitchen sink big enough to wash up in, with draining facility, plate rack cupboards above sink.

Our Laika has domestic sized 32mm waste pipes from both sink and bathroom bain/shower tray, never froze up despite some serious winter freezes, unlike the normal camper minuscule wastes.

A three/four burner hob, and a quality oven, No Smev if poss IMHO a grill I don't have to touch my toes to see into, what use is a grill at knee height (bloody Italians)

Fridge freezer with sufficient space in both compartments for at least 4 days.

2 x 250ah leisure batteries if poss 1200 watt inverter with min 80 watt solar panel, so we can do more while away.

A decent drawer for cutlery which will stand being the most used drawer.

A couple more drawers for drugs, bits n pieces.

A 1 mtr high wardrobe.

A reasonably accessible place for tinned goods, but not so low you need to kneel down.

Make use of any unused space for cubby holes.

Some where to put a cup or glass when in bed. (force four do a natty little fold down cup holder, screw or stick up, very robust in black £4 ish)

Half depth shelf with lip in all cupboards, as a tin of bisto is not 300 + tall not ar boxes of tea bags.

If putting aerial cables in put them in more than one place, so you can have more than one TV as these days lots of people have earphones so no real reason why there couldn't be 2 or 3 TVs on the go at the same time, no more arguments, certainly less.

Certainly must have double glazing, including the back doors if a rear lounge, not concerned with blonds, curtains are fine, cost less and more reliable anyway if lined.

Insulated fresh water tank under-slung, ditto waste.

Under-slung gas tank too please, in fact anything which can go under, put it under, more space inside.

Not seen it yet, but I'd like to see 2 taps at the lowest points for hot and cold pipes to totally drain the system in winter, maybe using the 5 degree one from Thetford, some way to automatically open the taps would be good to prevent air lock (I can dream).

Well you did ask, these and more are some of what we hope to achieve in ours.

Hopefully you have actually been away in a camper more than once and know all the problems and are ready to address the worst ones, as there is some good stuff out there, and there is some not so good.

Excellent conversion but too small for us, a rock n roll bed would de me in for good.

Have you any intention of doing larger vans? such as LWB panel vans.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Techno100 said:


> Got any vacancies 8)


Oi sod off, I was going to say that.

My need is greater :lol: :lol:


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## Pudsey_Bear

brillopad said:


> Am i missing something here, as i cant see the van that every one's talking about,i seem to get this a lot, people talk about things on here that i can't see.
> 
> Dennis


Me too Dennis, Our lass keeps telling me that I don't listen, the only problem is if I did I couldn't plead ignorance.

Specsavers don't do glasses for the deaf.


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## Mandale

Hello Kev-and Liz,

Thank you for your response, in answer to you question reference "LWB Panel Van Conversions" we are currently working with Renault UK (Renault Master MWB, LWB and Ex LWB) to at chive Renault UK Motor Caravan conversion approval and UK Type approval on one of these models by the end of the year.

Being from a motor vehicle back ground we have probably approached motor caravan conversions from a different focus to most converters, however our highest priority is to balance road safety with customer’s wishes. 

I would be happy to help you with any information "reference to your own conversion".


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## Mandale

Kev and Liz,

that would be achieve! 

to "at chive" Renault UK Motor Caravan conversion approval and UK Type approval on one of these models by the end of the year. 

sorry, 
half asleep just got back from watching Foo Fighters last night!
never trust spell checker with miss type, lol.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Mandale said:


> Kev and Liz,
> 
> that would be achieve!
> 
> to "at chive" Renault UK Motor Caravan conversion approval and UK Type approval on one of these models by the end of the year.
> 
> sorry,
> half asleep just got back from watching Foo Fighters last night!
> never trust spell checker with miss type, lol.


First thing thanks for the offer, I might need it at some point, you can't beat the professionals.

Second thing, you need to sign your posts so we know who you are :lol: :lol:

Forgot the third, Oh yeah FF great saw them with the chillis in 03 Glasgow on the green, the ground literally bounced and no I wasn't drinking.

Now I've buttered you up, any jobs going, sweeping up brewing tea, just to be around people doing something right, plus I am quite useful too.


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## Mandale

Kev and Liz, 

I think I have signed this, but not sure.

Sorry we have no jobs as the moment but are hoping to expand in the next 12 months. 

If you could email your CV to me ([email protected]) 
I will keep it on file.

Alternatively you can post your CV to me
Address: 
Mandale Bodyshop Ltd,
Units 5/6 Mandale Ind Est,
South Street,
Keighley,
West Yorkshire,
BD21 1DB.

Mark it for my attention.


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## Pudsey_Bear

You might be waiting a while, I've never had a CV, and it's a bit late to start now :lol: :lol: 

My CV is I turn up on time (every time), I work while I'm there then I go home at finishing time, self motivating I think it's called now, it's the only way after being self employed for 30 years


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## rugbyken

most of us that have been using these for a while have our own ideas of the perfect van but my perfect van 2011 is not what my perfect van 2001 would have been . 
so good luck with your venture and here are a few of mine 
i think the most important thing is weight distribution batteries [multiple] under veh same for water tank's would also consider using underslung lpg tank 
lighter units ie bathroom behind rear wheels saw a home conversion where it had toilet/whb one side shower other doors sealed off in use but left rearview clear in transit, particularly like the new bentley's idea of a drainpoint at opposite corners of the shower tray 
with a lot of others in that i dont use micro or oven much & could make do with halogen but need a grill,also outside BBQ point 
as big a fridge as can be fitted and saw a van where the table was fitted on the sliding door [dropdown] and the swivelled passenger seat and a drop down on the end of the kitchen unit made a little dinette 
there was a van at the newbury show last year that had a foldup bed reminiscent of the sixties style bedsit, the bed was stood up, still made up to reveal a settee arrangment behind the drivers seat


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## mec

Please use good quality fixings. It's really annoying to have little plastic bits that snap off, or plastic plugs over screwholes that fall out - or the odd screw that rusts where everything else is rust-proof. 

Maybe provide a kit with a couple of spare replacements for such parts where unavailable. 

We have no need of a shower (though it might be used to rinse sand off feet or something). If fitted, try to make the shower room dual purpose - eg make it possible to have hangers in there so coats/towels can be hung to dry.


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## ActiveCampers

Not going to read the rest of this thread, but to be honest, any builder should not build a van for everyone - you will fail.

When working at the NEC on a small converters stand we had (no joke):-

I need an oven in a van
Why bother having an oven, no one ever cooks

We must have a shower
What a waste of space, who uses a shower in a van?

Of course we want a double bed
We sleep in singles

We need loads of batteries and gas for wild camping
We only use campsites

etc etc

So no doubt we offended everyone lol!


Personally our criteria was:-
- under 5 m
- 4 belted sears
- 2x singles and 1x double (not at the same time!)
- Full shower, loo and wetroom
- good fridge & cooker

And we'd not change that criteria, apart from having singles as that as "for mates" but then never taken any away in the van - they've had a pup tent!

So, in summary, you'll never please everyone. Ever.


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## Lesleykh

Our Devon pvc on a Renault Master suited us very well for our year in Europe. It wasn't our dream van and we discussed changes we'd make, as you do.

We never used the oven once in the whole year away. It was just a big, clunky storage space for us. We did use the 4 ring gas burners on the hob and the gas grill though, and would definitely want those.

Our fridge has a small ice-box, and that was enough freezer space, but the damn thing drains our electric very quickly, so something less power hungry would suit us.

We liked wild-camping, so solar panels as standard would be great. Also, a very sturdy (underslung?) refillable gas system. If you read our blog you'll see getting gas was a big concern for much of our trip (we have the tiniest gas locker!).

Loo - thetford bench type. Wet room - essential, but we tended to go for chucking water over ourselves with a small bowl rather than wasting loads of water by having a shower (2 litres as opposed to 10 litres). When not on EHU we boiled a pan of water on the stove (or outside on a fire) for 'showers', but having an electric water heater was great on EHU.

We rarely used the gas heating/water heating due to our problems with replacing gas, but if there was a refillable gas system then we'd definitely use the gas boiler more.

I agree with whoever posted about open shelving. Why would anyone want that? We have 6 overhead lockable cupboards, 1 long narrow wardrobe which I put shelves in, 2 other wardrobes, both now with shelves, and one small cupboard next to the fridge. It seemed enough space for us.

The transverse double bed was great, but we are both under 6ft. The L shaped lounge was OK, but in retrospect I'd rather have a U shaped lounge, with more storage as we pack the empty floorspace at the back with a couple of boxes and our camping chairs/table etc.

I would never consider a van which did not have easy access from the driving part to the living part.

Not essential, but something which worked well for us, was the seating/table area behind the driver's seat as well as the rear lounge. It meant one could stay up and do stuff at a table, while the other went to bed or just lounged at the back. 

We rarely used the third seat for passengers, though it did happen occasionaly and drew looks of resentment from Charlie dog, who considered it his own seat (much to the bewilderment of anyone in the old Eatern Block countries - "what do you mean the dog has his own seat?").

I had to make a fly screen/curtain for the large sliding door, so something ready made for that would be good. Our is on velcro, so we can move it about the van, sticking it to the furry ceiling, for more privacy if one of us wants a shower and the other wants to sit up front with the blinds open.

That's about it for our requirements. We wouldn't have gone for an automatic, it just happened to be one and was a good price, but the Renault Master has proved to be a sturdy little beast.

Good luck with your venture. We'll look out for new vans at the shows.

Lesley


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## linbob

Have a look at the Autosleeper Duetto, it is totally perfect for us as a couple and although its an oldie now, we love it and wouldn't change it for anything. 
With regard to space, we use our van to get us from a to b and to sleep in, not live in, we don't go on holiday to sit indoors.
Although it has the loo and shower etc, we always use the site facilities, exept in the night!! And we are able to go anywhere with it that we could go in our family car without dragging another set of wheels around to sightsee with.
Don't you just love motorhoming, scuse me I must go outside and sit in it for a while with a cuppa, and pretend were on the road again!!
Good luck with your venture.


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## JustRadio

I definately think less is more in a small vehicle. I want to convert an LWB T5 next, (if I can find one). No windows please, great insulation, diesel heater, cold water only, the big thing is a high spec vehicle to start with, one with Air, Cruise, tailgate if poss, and not having gone round the clock.

I discovered with the last T4 that one can do very well with two bowls of hot water, one kettle full, a camp site or hotel every few days.

Hymer now sold, well payment Friday deposit in bin. I want to camp on mountains or deserts, in city car parks or Aires, without causing attention anywhere. Hiding in plain sight for wild camping.

If I need to live in one place for a week, which is how I've used the Hymer, then the ex wife's caravan will do fine. By the end of August I need to find a T5 to tow it if I can, and then convert prior to departing for Spain in October.

John


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## Westkirby01

You seem to have designed a van for the use of Motorhomers. 

Stop it now. We are used to seeing new vehicles that look like Italian hotel toilets. Full of glitz and impractical for general living.

An excellent well thought out design. 

Well done. Proud to see English innovation.

Regards


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## JustRadio

Amazing really, I'm no closer to finding the van, well that's not quite true, I've discovered that Renault Trafic's seem to offer all the space of a T5 at half the price which bring a new one into play, and which means I can order LHD if I want to.

Anyway being really no closer to acquiring a van I bought a car to tow the caravan, see earlier post. I bought it by dint of putting "tow bar" and then "nearest" into ebay. I've bought an 04 Renault Laguna 80k miles, climate, 6 CD autochanger, cruise, dead comfortable on a run, loads of toys, £1800. I may keep it the month or hang on until a van arrives, but I'm amazed at the value and condition. 

(Tomorrow I expect the gearbox will drop off, there has to be a catch somewhere).

John


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