# Efoy 1600 V Gasperini EG-20



## SaddleTramp

Well I feel I have now enough experience to post my findings by personal experience

A while ago I had a Gesperini EG-20 fitted on a MH and when I then foolishly (IMHO) purchased a Fifth Wheel I discovered that the EG-20 would not fit on the Fifth Wheel unit so I sold the EG-20 to Sonesta.

I have now got a new Rapido MH and fitted as standard is an Efoy 1600, I have had the MH since February this year and traveled through France and various places and I was pleased with the Efoy, BUT now it has come to colder weather and needing lights etc on earlier I can now state that it is NOT a patch on an EG-20, I am now looking at removing the Efoy from my MH and replacing it with the EG-20.

Now as I have stated this is my Opinion and from having used BOTH it is NOT an opinion based on pieces of paper that say this and that and what SHOULD happen it is based on personal experience of using BOTH systems.

I am extremely disappointed in the Efoy unit.


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## Happycampers

Hi Les, 
Something else for sale soon then :lol: :wink: 

Hope your both keeping well , the Domes still working a treat.

Nigel


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## SaddleTramp

Hi Nigel, I was only thinking about you last weekend, Hope your both Ok.

Yep it will be for sale soon, Just sent an email for quotation for an EG-20.

Glad Dome is still Ok.

Les


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## erneboy

That's interesting Les.

I find our Efoy does the job for us. Due to the recent price hikes both for the units and the fuel I think the cost can no longer be justified when compared with other means of generating electricity. That is made even worse when I factor in the operating life of an Efoy at around 3 to 4 thousand hours, Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

Hi Alan, I used it this weekend and it was running the vast majority of the time and not once were my batteries brought up to voltage bearing in mind I also have a Solar panel, We were waking up in the morning and switching inverter on Just to boil kettle, and everything would switch off as not enough power in batteries and we were hardly in the van the night before, It appeared to be getting worse all the weekend.

I was suspecting the batteries and when we drove home it obviously charged everything up and the batteries have held full charge ever since and all is ok, I only had LED lights on in the MH and the Tv and the batteries were very slowly getting lower and lower and as I said the Efoy was running continuous, Oh also had heating on (Alde) and pump on Auto so it wasn't on all the time.

The meter said the Efoy was putting 5.6 amp in and the other guage said the lights and Tv were using 4 amp .

Had it been the EG-20 it would have chucked 20amp in and kept the batteries up at 13.8v and no worries, a little bit noisier I agree but certainly nowhere near as loud as some of the generators that were in use.


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## carol

Thank you both for your reviews. It has always been a question I wanted answered. I had sided towards the efoy for its quietness. I have looked at some info on the web just now and - it may sound a daft question - but would that mean we wouldn't for instance need our Sterling B2B charger as well. Am thinking if we sell and downsize - would I take the sterling out for reuse in a new mh?

Carol


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## spatz1

Batteries....

I ve just bought three despite having mine all testing ok.. simple fact was under a 60w load the new batteries were able to run it 90 % longer in time thereby delivering nearly twice the capacity of the old...

I ve also found when charging the new ones accept a far greater AH figure of charge to cut off the charger than the old


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## SaddleTramp

spatz1 said:


> Batteries....
> 
> I ve just bought three despite having mine all testing ok.. simple fact was under a 60w load the new batteries were able to run it 90 % longer in time thereby delivering nearly twice the capacity of the old...
> 
> I ve also found when charging the new ones accept a far greater AH figure of charge to cut off the charger than the old


Hi spatz1, Mine are brand new batteries.


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## erneboy

I have a Sterling B2B and would keep it in as well as I think the two can do slightly different jobs. It's nice to be fully charged when you arrive and not need additional charging for a while.

Les I would be a bit suspicious of your batteries. Our Efoy is a 1200, which is all I could get at the time we bought it. We run heating, watch telly via Oyster, run a computer and the sat internet, led lighting, pumps etc. and it can keep up with that giving fully charged batteries in the morning, Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

I will certainly have the batteries tested, The Rapido has a B2B system installed as standard and trying to fit another one causes damage which I have already discovered.

Thanks Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

carol said:


> Thank you both for your reviews. It has always been a question I wanted answered. I had sided towards the efoy for its quietness. I have looked at some info on the web just now and - it may sound a daft question - but would that mean we wouldn't for instance need our Sterling B2B charger as well. Am thinking if we sell and downsize - would I take the sterling out for reuse in a new mh?
> 
> Carol


Hi Carol, Yes you can remove anything you have added and I would still use your Sterling B2B.

Alan, Out of curiosity what does your efoy charge your batteries to in Volts, Mine reached 12.6 max.


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## Christine600

Les - my 1600 atleast take my batteries to 13.8V - probably higher too before it shuts off. But I have not been paying too much attention.


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## SaddleTramp

Christine600 said:


> Les - my 1600 atleast take my batteries to 13.8V - probably higher too before it shuts off. But I have not been paying too much attention.


After how long being on Chris ?


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## SaddleTramp

Still Not Happy so I have just contacted Phil from Rhino Installs and he is going to come and sort me out and if I need batteries he is bringing some with him, Will post results and retract my opinion if at fault.


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## erneboy

14.2 volts Les. I suspect yours is not properly set or has a fault. I think the terminal voltage can be changed, Alan.


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## spatz1

SaddleTramp said:


> spatz1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Batteries....
> 
> I ve just bought three despite having mine all testing ok.. simple fact was under a 60w load the new batteries were able to run it 90 % longer in time thereby delivering nearly twice the capacity of the old...
> 
> I ve also found when charging the new ones accept a far greater AH figure of charge to cut off the charger than the old
> 
> 
> 
> Hi spatz1, Mine are brand new batteries.
Click to expand...

12.6vfrom the efoy... 

hope you hav nt just changed your batteries and this turns out to be the problem as 12.6 wont see much power deposited in any battery..


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## davidcampervanstuff

SaddleTramp said:


> Hi Alan, I used it this weekend and it was running the vast majority of the time and not once were my batteries brought up to voltage bearing in mind I also have a Solar panel, We were waking up in the morning and switching inverter on Just to boil kettle, and everything would switch off as not enough power in batteries and we were hardly in the van the night before, It appeared to be getting worse all the weekend.
> 
> I was suspecting the batteries and when we drove home it obviously charged everything up and the batteries have held full charge ever since and all is ok, I only had LED lights on in the MH and the Tv and the batteries were very slowly getting lower and lower and as I said the Efoy was running continuous, Oh also had heating on (Alde) and pump on Auto so it wasn't on all the time.
> 
> The meter said the Efoy was putting 5.6 amp in and the other guage said the lights and Tv were using 4 amp .
> 
> Had it been the EG-20 it would have chucked 20amp in and kept the batteries up at 13.8v and no worries, a little bit noisier I agree but certainly nowhere near as loud as some of the generators that were in use.


Hello Les,

Does the input from the Efoy pass through the 'other gauge'? If it does then the 5.6amps you see on the Efoy control panel should be more or less mirrored on the other gauge, minus any current that is being drawn by appliances in use. In this scenario the 4amps you see on the gauge would mean that in reality 9.6 amps is being drawn but 5.6 amps is being provided directly from the Efoy input and the remaing 4 amps is a net drain on battery.

However if the Efoy has not been integrated in your gauge / battery monitor circuit then the 4amps would be the total draw - as you surmise, I guess - and the 'invisible' Efoy contribution would be providing a small surplus of 1.6 amps to slowly raise the charge in your battery. While this proportion continues you would need around six hours to add a mere 10Ah to you battery; depending on the size of your battery, 10 Ah would amount to only a small increase in its percentage charge, and therefore not much net gain in battery voltage.

I would expect that using your inverter to boil just enough water for two cups of tea would take around 7Ah out of your battery, so that represents one and a half hours of the Efoy's full output.

Functioning correctly, your Efoy 1600 will provide 130Ah per day, which on the face of it should be plenty for the usage you describe. The Efoy will take the battery to 14.2 v before switching off but if the battery drain equals or exceeds the maximum that the Efoy is capable of then the voltage will not rise and the charge state will not increase.

So I guess the areas to look at are:
the power usage, perhaps something causing a drain you're not aware of;
A fault with the Efoy or the installation;
Battery issue.

Regard,

David


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## SaddleTramp

Well Phil from Rhino installs has been today and all tests were inconclusive definitely BUT I have had 2 new batteries fitted and it does seem better.

Report as follows:-

Batteries were on EHU until yesterday as Phil asked me to disconnect them 24 hours before he came as a better test could be carried out then.

When tested one was showing 75AH on a 110AH battery
one showed 65AH on a 110AH battery then when tested 2 minutes later showed 75AH so it was fluctuating.

Numerous other tests carried out and one showed the EFOY was working and showing a charge but again was fluctuating.

After discussion where Phil admitted he couldn't understand what was happening Phil then tested the 2 new batteries he had brought with him, These showed 80AH even though they had not been on charge, I decided to have the new batteries fitted.

as soon as the batteries were fitted everything changed there was a substantially higher reading from the EFOY and also on other meters fitted.

Result, Not 100% definite but appears to have solved the problem and more test will follow.

Thanks Phil.


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## erneboy

Thanks for keeping us informed Les. I guess now it is a case of seeing what the Efoy does and at what voltage it stops charging the batteries.

The Efoy does tend to fluctuate, it kind of goes in bursts with short rests in between where the output ampage drops right off for maybe up to 30 seconds. Mine has always done that so I assume it's normal, Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

erneboy said:


> Thanks for keeping us informed Les. I guess now it is a case of seeing what the Efoy does and at what voltage it stops charging the batteries.
> 
> The Efoy does tend to fluctuate, it kind of goes in bursts with short rests in between where the output ampage drops right off for maybe up to 30 seconds. Mine has always done that so I assume it's normal, Alan.


Hi Alan.
The problem was with the old batteries on and the EFOY running it would show charge of 4.1 then 0.0 then again 3.? all within seconds.

Now it has a steady charge rate but when nearing Max it steadily reduces until it is fully charged, which it does Fully recharge, It didn't before.

I am also fancying a NASA BM1 to enable me to identify such problems in the future.


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## erneboy

It sounds as if it's right now Les. The charge does taper off as the batteries reach full charge. I tend not to let mine always do that, rightly or wrongly thinking that I am using the using fuel for a diminishing return as the batteries reach a fully charged state, Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

Very good point that Alan.


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## Jean-Luc

Reading the manual and installation diagram for the NASA BM1, which is on my 'to buy' list, I was surprised to see the shunt on the negative side of the battery.
My instinct would have been to have it on the positive side to monitor the flow/ebb of current :? 

How about a simple explanation to add to my understanding of stuff 12 volt from one of you knowledgeable people


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## SaddleTramp

Jean-Luc said:


> Reading the manual and installation diagram for the NASA BM1, which is on my 'to buy' list, I was surprised to see the shunt on the negative side of the battery.
> My instinct would have been to have it on the positive side to monitor the flow/ebb of current :?
> 
> How about a simple explanation to add to my understanding of stuff 12 volt from one of you knowledgeable people


It is no good me even trying to work that one out Jean-Luc I have no idea as I would also have thought on the positive side.

:?


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## cabby

That EG20 Sounds ideal, however I am somewhat shocked 8O 8O at the price I saw quoted, almost too much to mention   
is it really in the realms of over £5k.just to be self sufficient for elec.

cabby

had a look on google and have seen it £2459 fitted. anyone do it cheaper.


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## SaddleTramp

That sounds about average cabby, But if you are mechanically minded you can easily do it yourself and then it would be about 2k.


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## Christine600

Glad you got that sorted, Les!



erneboy said:


> I tend not to let mine always do that, rightly or wrongly thinking that I am using the using fuel for a diminishing return as the batteries reach a fully charged state, Alan.


I do that too - feeling enough is enough.  Also I turn it off if I plan to drive for some length as then the car generator charges the batteries just fine. And again if the sun is hot in the summer I don't need my Efoy.


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## eddievanbitz

SaddleTramp said:


> Well Phil from Rhino installs has been today and all tests were inconclusive definitely BUT I have had 2 new batteries fitted and it does seem better.
> 
> Report as follows:-
> 
> Batteries were on EHU until yesterday as Phil asked me to disconnect them 24 hours before he came as a better test could be carried out then.
> 
> When tested one was showing 75AH on a 110AH battery
> one showed 65AH on a 110AH battery then when tested 2 minutes later showed 75AH so it was fluctuating.
> 
> Numerous other tests carried out and one showed the EFOY was working and showing a charge but again was fluctuating.
> 
> After discussion where Phil admitted he couldn't understand what was happening Phil then tested the 2 new batteries he had brought with him, These showed 80AH even though they had not been on charge, I decided to have the new batteries fitted.
> 
> as soon as the batteries were fitted everything changed there was a substantially higher reading from the EFOY and also on other meters fitted.
> 
> Result, Not 100% definite but appears to have solved the problem and more test will follow.
> 
> Thanks Phil.


Hi Les

What equipment did you use to check the leisure batteries? So often we see people trying to "drop test" leisure batteries which at best gives useless results at worse can destroy a leisure battery

Eddie


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## SaddleTramp

eddievanbitz said:


> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Phil from Rhino installs has been today and all tests were inconclusive definitely BUT I have had 2 new batteries fitted and it does seem better.
> 
> Report as follows:-
> 
> Batteries were on EHU until yesterday as Phil asked me to disconnect them 24 hours before he came as a better test could be carried out then.
> 
> When tested one was showing 75AH on a 110AH battery
> one showed 65AH on a 110AH battery then when tested 2 minutes later showed 75AH so it was fluctuating.
> 
> Numerous other tests carried out and one showed the EFOY was working and showing a charge but again was fluctuating.
> 
> After discussion where Phil admitted he couldn't understand what was happening Phil then tested the 2 new batteries he had brought with him, These showed 80AH even though they had not been on charge, I decided to have the new batteries fitted.
> 
> as soon as the batteries were fitted everything changed there was a substantially higher reading from the EFOY and also on other meters fitted.
> 
> Result, Not 100% definite but appears to have solved the problem and more test will follow.
> 
> Thanks Phil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Les
> 
> What equipment did you use to check the leisure batteries? So often we see people trying to "drop test" leisure batteries which at best gives useless results at worse can destroy a leisure battery
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...

Hi Eddie, In my MH I just use the standard Rapido Panel and the Gauge on the Efoy, But it was running that low before that as soon as I switched the Inverter on it shut the Panel down, Tried it today and it boiled kettle and still wasn't at danger point, But I am def looking at the NASA BM-1 and I have just been told that a mate of mine has one he doesn't use tucked away in a box, So need to contact him  

If you mean what did Phil use I don't know what it was mate but it was a meter that told him all sorts about the battery and it's condition.


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## eddievanbitz

Ah right Don't use a NASA battery monitor if you have solar panels as it doesn't work correctly with Solar panels. 

The BM1 will not show a discharge when there is a small charge, so you sit there all day thinking that everything is fine, and the bang! The gauge updates once the sun goes down  

We spoke to NASA about this and they know of the fault and have no intention of fixing it as it is a marine product and solar is not a big player in the marine market. Because of this we stopped selling them about 18 months ago.

Better is the Victron unit that retails at about £150 with a 500 amp shunt 

Again the miserly 100amp shunt in the BM1 means that use with inverters etc is harder

Eddie


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## SaddleTramp

Have you got a link to it Eddie so I can have a Gander.


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## eddievanbitz

SaddleTramp said:


> Have you got a link to it Eddie so I can have a Gander.


http://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/bmv-600s and bmv-602s/

Right! I'm off for the weekend, no 'puter or signal! just wine and steak!

Bye

Eddie :wink:


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## SaddleTramp

Have a good un mate.


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## SaddleTramp

Well just been out and put heating on and turned EFOY on and boiled a kettle of water WITHOUT the panel switching everything off and flashing PLUS the EFOY actually charged the battery up in a pretty short time so I think the problem has been solved.

I really do like the look of the Victron BMV 600S Battery monitor far better looking than the NASA BM1, Save up time I think.


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## cabby

missed a few posts there while away, yes to whether I am mechanically minded, however am now physically unable, but still got the tools and a mate who helps out with my guidance. :lol: :lol: plus the cups of tea as he gets on with it.


cabby


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## gromett

I had the victron one on my last 3 vehicles. On this one I went for the NASA one and I am disappointed in comparison. Not seen the solar panel problem you mentioned however. The victron is much better and more usable I found though.


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## SaddleTramp

Well bit the bullet and ordered a Victron BMV600S, They look a nice bit of kit and also look a bit easier to wire than a NASA.

Found a site that does them at £130.20 inc VAT and Free Postage

<< Here >> if anyone is interested.


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## randonneur

We were in the Masters accessory shop in Bordeaux yesterday and Efoy Methanol was 29 euros for 10 litres. When we last got some it was 35 euros, so the price hasn't risen here  *yet*.


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## erneboy

I paid €35 for 5lt. at Movil Rodan here on the N340 near Castellon in Spain last year. I mentioned that the price was the 10lt price and was far too much for 5lt. It earned me a lenghty explanation about transport costs, a limited market meaning they had to hold it in stock for extended periods, the need to make a profit etc. 

They can charge whatever they want to and whatever they think the market will bear. I needed it so I bought it, Alan.


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## SaddleTramp

erneboy said:


> I paid €35 for 5lt. at Movil Rodan here on the N340 near Castellon in Spain last year. I mentioned that the price was the 10lt price and was far too much for 5lt. It earned me a lenghty explanation about transport costs, a limited market meaning they had to hold it in stock for extended periods, the need to make a profit etc.
> 
> They can charge whatever they want to and whatever they think the market will bear. I needed it so I bought it, Alan.


I got 4 x 5ltr here in UK a few weeks ago at a cost £130 before it was due to go up, I don't know what it is now.


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## Antares1

Dear Les, you shouldn't be too surprised that the Efoy 1600 didn't perform as well - it's spec is only 5.4Amps compared to the 20 Amps of the EG-20.

So it's all about "horses for courses" and doing the maths to see if "it" (the Efoy or the EG-20) is suitable for the job.

Charlie


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## hireme

Hi
Just out of interest, what was the problem with the 5th Wheel?

Antares1..... Are you from Antares and no, I don't mean the planet?

Regards
Tel


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## SaddleTramp

The Chassis wasn't sufficient to carry the EG-20 and it would have been too close to the road.


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