# air ride



## slippers

Hello all,
Yet again I am after information, hopefully one day I will be able to help someone else  
We have a hymer E510 and are thinking of fitting an air ride sort of jobbie.
Can anyone give me the benefits in a simple lay mans term, bit of a dopey so please dont get too techno,
Cheers me deers
Mr Slip


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## 113016

It lifts the rear up about 2 inches or 50 mm and makes the vehicle more stable.
It is particularly useful if a vehicles rear springs have started to sag.
Also in some cases, it is possible to get an extra 100kg payload on the rear axle.
I have had it on two vans and it worked!


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## rosalan

I am told that it gives a better ride, particularly on cornering and have been wondering if it is an investment to explore.
Then when I started looking at the various manufacturers at the shows, with some claiming this virtue and others claiming to be the only one to.... this one recognised by..... this one the original etc etc.
So much conflicting information that for the moment, as I don't know my Dunlop from my Goodyear, I have put the idea on hold until I know a bit more about their suitability for my x250 3.8 ton van.
Alan


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## vicdicdoc

I've got air ride fitted to my E-510(Fiat Ducato base) . . it does make the ride better


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## carprus

Hi Alan ,
Had the Dunlop fitted to my van 3800kg and the ride is 100% improved , I paid around £350 fitted not sure exactly , but worth every penny in my book , they also double up as a way of levelling the van perfectly , hope this is of help .

Rob.


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## makems

WE have a Rapido on a Merc Sprinter chassis and the van used to roll terribly at roundabouts and speed bumps or rutted fields could see the locker doors fly open depositing the contents all over the floor.
A thing of the past since having Air Rides fitted at the Lincoln show. IT has revolutionised the ride and the passenger no longer has to hold on to the door handles for dear life at mini roundabouts.
Hasn't made any difference to ride height or max weight but boy what an improvement on corners and uneven surfaces.


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## Antonia

Hi

We fitted an Airride to our old Merc 207D van last year due to flat rear springs and a saggy ass.
100% improvement in both, well worth the £450 I paid for the kit and was easy to fit at home DIY. Great driving improvement as well.

Regards

Antonia


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## Wizzo

I had to have airrides fitted in order to uprate the payload (3500 to 3850) and rear axle (2000 to 2240). I have to agree with the other posters, they do make the van more stable and stop the rear end bounce when fully loaded.

Mine were fitted by Rhino Installs.

JohnW


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## drcotts

I fitted it myself a few years ago (its not that difficult) and it was fitted as standard on autorcrises a few years ago.

it stiffens the rear suspension and so the body roll when corering or when being passed by big vehicles on the motorway is reduced. It does make a difference.bear in mid though that the ride will be a bit harder but most folks canlive with this. If your van has soft suspension and the body rolls when cornering making you feel a bit nervous about taking corners at normal car speed (for instance going round an island) then this is the best reason for fitting as it practically eliminates it and makes you feel much safer.

Air ride are not the only makers.

Phill


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## alshymer

*Air Rides*

Hi
I have the new shape Hymer B694, which used to bottom out all the time, even after fitting bumper blocks, this was a problem.
After I purchased a Honda Vision, I thought about lifting the rear suspension, both for the bottoming out and so that the van didn't look as though it was overloaded at the rear, should a mosey Gendarme take a fancy to me.
I bought the Firestone Drive Rite system, fitted by Essanjay and it has been a Godsend.
Although one can pump the system up to around 100lbs, I need only 25Ibs to make the van look right and handle well.
I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
The payload is the payload!
Highly recommended.
Regards
Alshymer


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## 113016

*Re: Air Rides*



alshymer said:


> Hi
> I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
> The payload is the payload
> Regards
> Alshymer


Your wrong Alshymer
It was me who said it and I do know what I am talking about.
My Hymer Tramps was upgraded from 3500kg by the experts SVTech to 4100kg. Obviously we then got a 600kg higher payload!
SVTech managed an extra 100kg load on the rear axle over and above any normal increase due to AiRide fitted.
That is a fact
:!:
edit
I am not saying it will be possible in all cases, but it certainly was in mine :!:

Just checked the details and the rear axle increased from 2200kg to 2300kg


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## drcotts

*Re: Air Rides*



Grath said:


> alshymer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
> The payload is the payload
> Regards
> Alshymer
> 
> 
> 
> Your wrong Alshymer
> It was me who said it and I do know what I am talking about.
> My Hymer Tramps was upgraded from 3500kg by the experts SVTech to 4100kg. Obviously we then got a 600kg higher payload!
Click to expand...

Hi Grath
Can you tell me (and I ask for the best of reasons) whether the people who did the conversion said the van was now re-tested by the DOT and legal. I ask this because one thing keeps confusing me regarding uprated suspensions. One is the braking system, this has originally been designed to stop a vehicle which is no heavier than a certain weight and the other is the tyres. these have a max carrying capacity - is the van still within spec.

Phill


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## 113016

*Re: Air Rides*



drcotts said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alshymer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
> The payload is the payload
> Regards
> Alshymer
> 
> 
> 
> Your wrong Alshymer
> It was me who said it and I do know what I am talking about.
> My Hymer Tramps was upgraded from 3500kg by the experts SVTech to 4100kg. Obviously we then got a 600kg higher payload!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Grath
> Can you tell me (and I ask for the best of reasons) whether the people who did the conversion said the van was now re-tested by the DOT and legal. I ask this because one thing keeps confusing me regarding uprated suspensions. One is the braking system, this has originally been designed to stop a vehicle which is no heavier than a certain weight and the other is the tyres. these have a max carrying capacity - is the van still within spec.
> Phill[/Quote
> 
> Hi Phil, I believe that SVTech have previously carried out such tests on similar vehicles and have all the relevant paper work. The uprate certificate they supply to the owner is acceptable to DVLA as SVTech are an industrial sector leader and are well known to DVLA.
> In my own case, my vehicle was on a Maxi chassis which left the factory with the option of gross weights of 3500kg or 3900kg. The previous owner registered the vehicle at 3500kg when it was quite capable of 3900kg, therefore the upgrade was not too high.
> One point, usually if you add up the rear axle permitted weight to the front axle permitted weight, it will be a higher figure than the gross weight.
> After my upgrade, the two axle weights equalled the new gross weight.
> I did realise that had my vehicle been running at the full 4100kg, it would have been on the higher limit of any tyre or brake strain. Ours was running at about 3900kg
Click to expand...


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## drcotts

Thanks for the info Grath.


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## icer

I believe sv tech will ask you what tyres you are using and factor that information into the equation before an upgrade will be granted.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the load sensing valve, when you add air assist it pushes the body higher and the LSV believes that the "van" is carrying no weight on the rear axle and limits braking capacity. 
It is necessary to adjust the load sensing valve to take this into consideration. 
There is a nice article here http://www.fiatforum.com/miscellane...emi-air-suspension-fiat-ducato-motorhome.html

Ian


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## 113016

icer said:


> I believe sv tech will ask you what tyres you are using and factor that information into the equation before an upgrade will be granted.
> 
> One thing that has not been mentioned is the load sensing valve, when you add air assist it pushes the body higher and the LSV believes that the "van" is carrying no weight on the rear axle and limits braking capacity.
> It is necessary to adjust the load sensing valve to take this into consideration.
> There is a nice article here http://www.fiatforum.com/miscellane...emi-air-suspension-fiat-ducato-motorhome.html
> 
> Ian


SVTech also request tyre details with loadings etc
I also was requested to send photographs of the AiRide fitted :!:


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## Daedalas

*Air ride - other options*

Morning All

Can I suggest you take a look at http://www.rubbersuspension.com/ [Ride Solutions] who market Timbren Rubber Springs as an alternative to very much more expensive Air Ride options. Timbren have a remarkable pedigree if you care to research it.

I put them on the rear of a Medallion and was VERY impressed with the improvement in the ride, drive and stability: so was my teacher daughter who has done an awful lot of carting kids in minibuses of all sorts [and driving our waggon] around the remoter parts of UK on DofE missions et al.

When we changed waggons, I put them on the rear of our current 2006 Autocruise StarSpirit and once more was VERY impressed indeed.

If I remember correctly they cost about £250: they are a DIY fit but I had my garage do it because ... well let's say it isn't as easy as it used to be to get under a waggon <vbg>

I have no connection with Timbren or RubberSolutions or any other spring / seller - except I'm chuffed to death with the results or using the Timbren product ... and I think you would be too. The price is good too.


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

I had mine done by Armitage in Ferrybridge, it was the Dunlop system and it certainly resurrected the back end, When overtaking or passing an HGV there was none of the roll or suck as the vehicles passed each other..

But talking to the boss while there, he said we had a new motorhome in last week only a few months old wanting the system putting on, he said he tried to tell him he was wasting his money on a new van as any air assistance is only an aid to existing suspension and on a new van there really is no benefit.. But the guy said he read somewhere that it was good for motor homes and he still wanted it on. :roll: 

It is definitely not a replacement for failed suspension, or needed on new suspension.

ray.


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## makems

Definitely advisable on new Merc Sprinter chassis. 
The issue is not that the springs are sagging or worn. The suspension is quite soft to start with which is great for comfort but not for controlling body roll. Also, the Merc chassis does not have a wider rear track like most of the Fiat based MHs. As a result the body projects several inches out beyond the rear wheels on our A Class. This exaggerates the rolling effect as a fair amount of weight is outboard of the wheels (remember that many of the cupboards/lockers etc are usually at the sides of the van).
On a rutted field or going over certain speed bumps the back end can whip wickedly from side to side
The Air Ride just solves the problem.


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## alshymer

*Air Rides*

Hi
I have the new shape Hymer B694, which used to bottom out all the time, even after fitting bumper blocks, this was a problem.
After I purchased a Honda Vision, I thought about lifting the rear suspension, both for the bottoming out and so that the van didn't look as though it was overloaded at the rear, should a mosey Gendarme take a fancy to me.
I bought the Firestone Drive Rite system, fitted by Essanjay and it has been a Godsend.
Although one can pump the system up to around 100lbs, I need only 25Ibs to make the van look right and handle well.
I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
The payload is the payload!
Highly recommended.
Regards
Alshymer


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## 113016

*Re: Air Rides*



alshymer said:


> Hi
> I think it is nonsense though, to say that you can increase the rear axle payload by 100kilos as someone previously stated.
> The payload is the payload!
> Highly recommended.
> Regards
> Alshymer


Alshymer, I have already answered the post which you have repeated. Below is a copy.

Your wrong Alshymer
It was me who said it and I do know what I am talking about.
My Hymer Tramps was upgraded from 3500kg by the experts SVTech to 4100kg. Obviously we then got a 600kg higher payload!
SVTech managed an extra 100kg load on the rear axle over and above any normal increase due to AiRide fitted.
That is a fact
Exclamation
edit
I am not saying it will be possible in all cases, but it certainly was in mine Exclamation

Just checked the details and the rear axle increased from 2200kg to 2300kg

an ANSWER TO FOLLOW UP QUESTION

Hi Phil, I believe that SVTech have previously carried out such tests on similar vehicles and have all the relevant paper work. The uprate certificate they supply to the owner is acceptable to DVLA as SVTech are an industrial sector leader and are well known to DVLA.
In my own case, my vehicle was on a Maxi chassis which left the factory with the option of gross weights of 3500kg or 3900kg. The previous owner registered the vehicle at 3500kg when it was quite capable of 3900kg, therefore the upgrade was not too high.
One point, usually if you add up the rear axle permitted weight to the front axle permitted weight, it will be a higher figure than the gross weight.
After my upgrade, the two axle weights equalled the new gross weight.
I did realise that had my vehicle been running at the full 4100kg, it would have been on the higher limit of any tyre or brake strain. Ours was running at about 3900kg


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## slippers

Well!
Thanks to all for your comments, they really have been a great help and I think the concensus is that they are a good idea to fit.
Without people like you people like me would be at a loss.
Thanks again and hopefully one day I will be able to help others as you have helped me.

Cheers me deers
Tony.


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## Glandwr

Mine were fitted to the van before I got it so I can't coment on ride other than to say that I don't detect a huge difference between the pressure right up or off altogether.

Having said that I am sold on them because as Carpus says they are a very handy and clean way of levelling

Dick


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## alshymer

*Air Rides*

Hi again,
Having been abruptly corrected by Grath twice, I should say in my defence that when it was stated that 'the rear axle payload could be increased by 100kgs in some cases', no mention was made about a professional chassis upgrade.
It was inferred that by fitting Air Rides or the equivalent, that one could achieve a 100kgs increase in payload. I repeat that this is not so.
To avoid confusion accurate information should always be given on our forum.
Regards
Alshymer


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## 113016

*Re: Air Rides*



alshymer said:


> Hi again,
> Having been abruptly corrected by Grath twice, I should say in my defence that when it was stated that 'the rear axle payload could be increased by 100kgs in some cases', no mention was made about a professional chassis upgrade.
> It was inferred that by fitting Air Rides or the equivalent, that one could achieve a 100kgs increase in payload. I repeat that this is not so.
> To avoid confusion accurate information should always be given on our forum.
> Regards
> Alshymer


Alshymer, I am sorry if it came over abruptly, it was not meant but YOU did infer that my post was a nonsense and you also reposted a second time exactly as you did in the first post , with no added words or any different reply,. Strange! You could have asked for further details!
My information is accurate and was given by SVTech who are the undisputed experts!
My vehicle was on a Maxi Chassis and the AiRide DID enable an extra 100kg payload on the rear axle! That is a FACT!
I have worked for quite a few years within the semi trailer manufacturing industry and my job involved test driving new products, which obviously deals with such things as suspension etc. and I do respect experts opinions.
I did say, it may not be possible in all cases, but certainly was in mine. I strongly recommend, that if anybody is seriously considering this upgrade, to contact SVTech for accurate information for their own particular vehicle. Incidentally I did have to remind SVTech that my vehicle had AiRide as they were going to issue a certificate with a 100kg lighter rear axle payload and as soon as I reminded them, it increased by the 100kg!
Again ,apologies if my post came over abrupt, but you did infer my post was a nonsense.

edit
Everything including such items as which tyre's and brakes fitted and what other springs your vehicle has, if they are single, double or even triple leaf, comes into the equation.
Each vehicle is taken on it's own merit!


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## Wizzo

In order to make things absolutely clear in my case:

I needed to uprate the payload (this a 2009 Auto-Trail Apache 634L on the standard Fiat Ducato LWB chassis rated at 3500kgs MGW,).

I was told by SVTech, having given them all the details re brakes, tyres and chassis, that I could:

a) uprate to 3700kg without any work being done (merely a paper exercise)

b) uprate to 3850kg by fitting air suspension on the rear.

c) in both the above cases the axle limits remained the same at 1850 front and 2000 rear, BUT I could uprate the rear axle to 2240 by also fitting tyres with a higher load index (from 109 to 112). This necessitated going from 215/70 x 15 to 225/70 x 15.

Having had the work done I just needed to confirm this to SVTech who then issue a certificate for the DVLA and also a new weight plate (at a cost of course).

JohnW


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## 113016

Thanks Wizzo, as I said, "it is possible" and "each vehicle on it's own merit"
I can't remember the load index on the particular vehicle tyres.
Yesterday I tried to find copies of the uprated VIN plate, but I couldn't.
I must have given them with the rest of the paper pack to the new owner.
Our Tyres were 16 inch and I never skimp on tyres so possibly ours had a high load index.


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## alshymer

*Air Rides*

Hi
I would just like to say that I think that this has gone somewhat off topic
and is not now dealing with the pros and cons of Air Rides.
Also to Grath, I never posted twice, my answer just reappeared.
Regards
Alshymer


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## sideways

I know some vans come into the country at a higher weight than that which they end up at,In my case i had a Geist based on a Sprinter GVW 3500, when i enquired of Geist about an Upgrade Paddy their MD told me they had the vans downrated to 3500 to enable people who were restricted to that weight by their licence to buy them, i had nothing to do to the van and received a plate from Geist, with a weight of 3850kg albeit at a cost of £150 admin charge.


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## 113016

*Re: Air Rides*



alshymer said:


> Hi
> I would just like to say that I think that this has gone somewhat off topic
> and is not now dealing with the pros and cons of Air Rides.
> Also to Grath, I never posted twice, my answer just reappeared.
> Regards
> Alshymer


Even stranger :lol: posts by magic :lol: :lol: We have ghosts   
Regarding topic. It is as on topic as most threads :lol:


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## 113016

Just found the details of our previous Tramp on my old candle powered computer.
You will notice that none of the axle weights have altered with the exception of the rear after AiRide was fitted.
Usually any paper work only upgrade will not increase the axle loadings.
When our Tramp left the Hymer factory, it could have been registered at either 3500kg as per VIN 1 or or 3900kg as per VIN 2, dependant on the buyers driving licence and instructions.
As I posted earlier, it is possible for AiRide to facilitate a small rear axle upgrade, but not in all circumstances and each van is taken on it's own merit. 

VIN Plate 1 (Fiat Plate)
Gross = 3500kg
Train No info on my pc (assume 5500kg)
Axle 1 = 1850kg
Axle 2 = 2200kg

VIN Plate 2 (Hymer Plate)
Gross = 3900kg
Train = 5500kg
Axle 1 = 1850kg
Axle 2 = 2200kg

VIN Plate 3 (SVTech) with AiRide fitted
Gross = 4100kg
Train = 5500kg
Axle 1 = 1850kg
Axle 2 - 2300kg


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## wakk44

Slightly off topic but is it possible to go the other way and downgrade the MGVW from 3900kg to 3500kg.

A pertinent point as some drivers may reach 70 and be unable to pass a medical,also if a diabetic changes from tablets to insulin they will be restricted to 3500kg MGVW.


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## 113016

wakk44 said:


> Slightly off topic but is it possible to go the other way and downgrade the MGVW from 3900kg to 3500kg.
> 
> A pertinent point as some drivers may reach 70 and be unable to pass a medical,also if a diabetic changes from tablets to insulin they will be restricted to 3500kg MGVW.


Yes wakk44 it is possible as long as you can keep the gross weight of your vehicle to or under 3500kg.
I believe,iIt is easier to downgrade than to upgrade


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## 113016

Hi wakk44
If i were down grading, I doubt i would go through SVTech as it is supposed to be easier.
I think if your vans unladen weight is down to about 3000kg, maybe a little more and you take it to a weigh bridge to get a weight certificate. You can then go along to a DVLA local office, fill in a form and they should allow the downrating. Obviously the revenue rate will be higher.
Maybe you could check further or contact DVLA


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## ob1

Do watch your payload when thinking off downgrading. There are not too many models that can do this and still leave you a decent payload.

Ron


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