# New driving penalties for France (now found to be a hoax)



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have just been sent this new list of penalties for various driving offences, translated from the French;

*New level of fines and penalty points.*

*Small speeding excess*: 1 point and 72 euros or 135 euros less than 19 km / h.

*Large excess*: 3 points and 155 euro between 20 and 39 km / h. 4 points and 155 euro between 40 and 49 km / h. 6 points between 1700 euros max 50 km / and more.

*Failure to wear seat-belt*: 3 points and 155 euros;

*Using a hand-hold telephone while in charge of a vehicle*: 2 points and 155 euros.

*Parking offences*: 3 points and 155 euros

*Overtaking*; 2 points if you accelerate or refuse to keep to the right when you are about to be overtaken 3 points and 155 euros when you pass on the right without indicating or too close to a pedestrian (or cyclist ....) or without giving the overtaken vehicle sufficient clearance or cutting in when you are nearly ahead

*Crossing a Red light or STOP signal*: 4 points and 155 euros

*Alcohol*: 6 points automatically, to 9900 euros

*Small excess of alcohol:* 155 euros alcohol content between 0.5 and 0.8g / l of blood is 0.25 to 0.0 milligram per latre of exhaled air.

*Heavy excess of alcohol*: up to 4900 euros. This is also an offence punishable by two years imprisonment maximum for a BAC of at least 0.8 grammes per litre of blood, or 0.4 milligrams per litre of exhaled air. The penalty is the same for being clearly drunk or if you refuse to submit to testing. In case of repeated offences (intoxicated state of obvious intoxication or new test refusal), the maximum penalty is doubled (up to 9000 euros and 4 years in prison).

*Failure to observe the correct priority*: 4 points and 155 euros.

*Turning without indicating*: 3 points and 55 euros if you change direction or if you leave a parking space

*Lighting offences:* 4 points and 155 euros, if you drive without lights at night or in poor visibility.

*Failure to observe the correct safety distance*: 3 points and 155 euros.

*Crossing a solid white or yellow line*: 1 point and 155 euros, if you go along the line .. - 3 points and 155 euros: If you cross.

*Going the wrong way in a street*: 4 points and 155 euros.

*Motorway offences*; 3 points and 55 euros when you drive on the emergency lane - 4 points and 155 euros if you make a U - turn and perform a reverse.

*Using a radar detector*: 2 points, up to 1700 euros

*Overloaded*: 6 points up to 35 000 euros and 5 years in prison.

*Driving while license suspended or refuse to submit*: to 4500 euros and two years imprisonment.

*Incorrect registration plates*: Up to 3990 euros and 5 years in prison when they are wrong

*Fuel spillage*: After an accident or refusal to comply, up to 35 000 euros and two years in prison.

*Driving without due care and causing unintentional injuries*: with temporary interruption of work of less than 3 months up to 30 000 euros and two years in prison.

You have been warned - they are tightening up the penalties quite seriously.........

The translation has resulted in some odd anomalies which I have tried to put in English that (hopefully) makes sense for UK drivers. If you wish to see the original French version then send me a PM and I will happily send it to you...

They tend to simply put e.g. Plates rather than registration plates as the French word is more specific.

I hope that makes sense and that everyone will think about such things and ensure they stay within the law. Penalty points in France are deducted from your starting point - I cannot confirm whether they will be transferred back to the UK - the general opinion is that are not BUT it is not easy to confirm that opinion and I would not like to risk it.... 

Dave

site admin note - title amended, see later posts for details


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Penguin, a useful post!
They are catching Spain up!
The overloading one could catch a few out


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cor! Lets be careful out there.

In previous years we have seen the odd spot check at the road side and even got stopped at one on the bike. The guys face dropped though when he realised we were English.

This year and not only in France I haven't seen a single one. You hardly every see a Police car. Well maybe its just me.

Perhaps the stiffer penalties are to detract from the fact that actually there is very little Police presence?

The overloaded one should scare a few!


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

One of our gite guests this summer, driving a UK registered vehicle although he is not British got stopped for failing to stop at a STOP line, he was fined €90, if he did that now it would be €155 - ouch........

The gendarmes seemed unhappy whenj they relaised he was NOT British...... but fined him all the same......

You have been warned, the fines are due in cash and a receipt issued, no cash and the vehicle is impounded until the fine is paid.......

Dave


----------



## lalala (Aug 13, 2009)

Anyone know what exactly is meant by 'stop' at a stop sigh? We have friends who were fined when they did stop, so it seems they didn't stop for long enough. we have heard, in France, of anything form 4 seconds to 9 seconds being necessary to count as a 'stop'. 
Lalala


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Dunno about France but in UK STOP means that you have to put the hand brake on.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

lalala said:


> Anyone know what exactly is meant by 'stop' at a stop sigh? We have friends who were fined when they did stop, so it seems they didn't stop for long enough. we have heard, in France, of anything form 4 seconds to 9 seconds being necessary to count as a 'stop'.
> Lalala


You are expected and required to come to a complete stop, to apply the handbrake and then prepare to move off, some gendarmes believe a slow count of 5 is reasonable but there is no absolute figure given. It is at the discretion of the observing officer and if he decides that you have not stopped for long enough to do that and to look around clearly then the new fine is €155.

There are two times each year when "new" police are released for on the job training and this is when radar guns are more in evidence while they find out how to use them - these times (around here) are the end of March and the end of September.

They may, of course be different elsewhere.

The tolerance on radar is only about 1 - 2 kph, if the limit is 70 and you are doing 72 you can and probably will be done if picked up on a manned or unmanned speed camera.

Dave

Dave


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

I don't know where the handbrake bit comes from but here it's quite simple the wheels need to stop going round and the car moving forward.
We used to have a problem with a blind junction in town where drivers never stopped, we had a clamp down and I went to court to give evidence many times. 
It's was as simple as the wheels did not stop revolving. 
I guess in France unless the legislation mentions a time limit there is no limit.
It's also good to remember the signs didn't just randomly drop there, they are there to make you stop as it is safer to do so.
James


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Penquin said:


> One of our gite guests this summer, driving a UK registered vehicle although he is not British got stopped for failing to stop at a STOP line, he was fined €90, if he did that now it would be €155 - ouch........
> 
> The gendarmes seemed unhappy whenj they relaised he was NOT British...... but fined him all the same......
> 
> ...


When I was trucking, it was well known even then, particularly in Spain.
There was one junction that I know the Guarda Civil used to regularly hide and wait for perpetrators. The very awkward thing was that when driving a RHD vehicle you had to cross the line and angle the tractor unit to be able to see down the road  
Another thing to watch is don't turn across a solid line, you must go to the Cambio Centido to cross the road. (Spain that is)


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Some of the stop signs In France are a bit daft though. I've come up to some on the bike in quiet villages where I haven't seen a car for 40 miles and with a clear vision and you would just look daft stopping there for five second or whatever the "real" time is meant to be.

I hardly ever carry much cash though so would be a bit stuffed if they confiscate the bike 40 miles from the van.

I'll definately get done now for being a smart arse.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey Barry, the stop line which I have just referred to in Spain is in the middle of nowhere. It was a great money earner

If you are not going to stop, you must look for police in a bush :lol:


----------



## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

Thanks for the post.

It is neccesary to have this information, but most of it is what we should be doing anyway and Britain is far worse!

Have you ever been done for taking too much space in a carpark in France? or scared off by the signs/charges?

We have far more cameras than they do.

And don t get me started on the state of our roads

Give me France every time

Jon


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Grath said:


> Hey Barry, the stop line which I have just referred to in Spain is in the middle of nowhere. It was a great money earner
> 
> If you are not going to stop, you must look for police in a bush :lol:


At the end of the day, irrespective of which Country, the BOTTOM LINE is that, we must be aware most Countries are short of money and will try to raise money any way they can.
The place and time that I referred to was well before the present financial problems, and I can only imagine how they will be reacting now :!: 
The best advice is to try to stay within the law of the land


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> I'll definately get done now for being a smart arse.


Is that because the saddle rubs giving you the smart arse syndrome? :lol: :lol:

Dave :roll:


----------



## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Great post, Thanks.

Shame we can't have the overtaking rule in the UK.

Dave.


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

When I mentioned this post on another forum, I was informed that it is a hoax and could be confirmed by checking on google.fr


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I am sorry to say that your information from other forums about the use of Google France was incorrect, there is clear eviudence that these are the new penalties,;

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

It was sent to me by a very reliable source and this has appeared on another site way back in July;

http://www.completefrance.com/holid...the_route_france_s_new_driving_laws_1_1422624

so there is overwhelming evidence of it being correct, if you try Google France it does NOT give any suggestion that it is a hoax.....

But of course, if you don't commit the offence you won't get the chance to verify it's accuracy will you :lol:

I am prepared to believe the numerous sources that it appears on - including official ones and English expat sites....

If one of us has been taken in so have many thousands of others.....

I think not.....

Dave


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Please don't shoot the messenger Dave. 8O

The remark came from the wildcamping forum where a heated debate is going on about a new French Law for bikers to wear hi viz.

I could do a link but it is 5 pages long and full of childish spats (much like MHF in fact :lol: ).

I have told the errant gentleman that his claim that it is a hoax is incorrect. So shortly, I will be getting stick from 2 directions.

Where is the Christmas spirit when you need it? 8O

EDIT: New info Dave. Check this out, I no speaka de lingo (only English band Rubbish).

http://www.maitreledall.com/article...ion-des-retraits-de-points-2012-92821017.html


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I must admit I was a bit sceptical about some of the penalties e.g.

3 points for a parking offence ?

6 points for overweight, (but no mention of by how much as for speeding) and same as alcohol?

Up to 2 years in prison for a fuel spillage?

Geoff


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Just what is STOP?

Some years ago I was "involved" in a dispute between a traffic cop and a driver where the cop booked him for not stopping and the driver claimed he had stopped.

It went to court. Not in UK.

The driver demonstrated to the presiding magistrate that the traffic cop was not able to visually determine that the car had not stopped. He did so by tossing a matchbox into the air and then catching it - he then asked the court, including the traffic cop, if they were able to see the matchbox stop before falling back.

The court dismissed the case.


The driver did


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Reminds me of the conundrum of the fly and the locomotive.

A fly hits a locomotive head on.

At the moment of impact the fly comes to a momentary stop before changing direction.

If the fly stops then surely the locomotive must have stopped as well.

Discuss.

Well, actually - no, please do NOT discuss :lol:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

747 said:


> Please don't shoot the messenger Dave. 8O
> EDIT: New info Dave. Check this out, I no speaka de lingo (only English band Rubbish).
> 
> http://www.maitreledall.com/article...ion-des-retraits-de-points-2012-92821017.html


Thanks very much for that, it does make VERY interesting reading and certainly does seem to suggest that I may have been taken in as have many other people.......

I would suggest that you ALL refer to this detailed list;

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

it is MUCH too big to "cut and paste"

My only comment about the site that says the mail I was sent is a Hoax (and we all know that there are many well executed hoaxes around).would be that it does say there are many such hoaxes going around.....

On that site there is a link to the Assemblee Nationale report (No 3864) - the Parliamentary report for legislation which makes interesting (but VERY LENGTHY) reading.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13/rap-info/i3864-tI.asp

It supports the fact that the figures given in my OP are incorrect (   ) but does have details which confirm the information on the web site I have linked to in this post.....

That is an amazingly lengthy document but gives all the information about why the National Assembly voted for and introduced the various penalties - which appear to be typically €135 where the post I entered said €155.  (That would still make a large dent in many holiday plans).

*So, profuse apologies for misleading everyone with an e-mail that does not appear genuine. Please refer to the French Property page for detailed figures;*

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

Particular thanks to 747 for pointing out the fault - against what appears to be opposition! I was taken in like many, many others......

Dave


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks penguin, absolutely no need to apologise as you were acting in good faith and meant well!
Thank you very much

Whatever the case may, be, if we try to stay legal we will have less to worry about and should enjoy our holidays much better than looking over our shoulders!


----------



## Melly (Jul 5, 2007)

Thought this one was good.
Cyclist with no safety jacket (when riding out of town) €35 

Tour de france beware :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

Just a clever hoax. We do not blame you.

Please do not be put off posting some of the useful info you send from France.

Cheers, Geoff


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Melly said:


> Thought this one was good.
> Cyclist with no safety jacket (when riding out of town) €35
> 
> Tour de france beware :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Will the one with the yellow jersey that day be legal?


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

So does this mean I can now pull wheelies across stop signs in Provence or not? Confused!


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

barryd said:


> So does this mean I can now pull wheelies across stop signs in Provence or not? Confused!


In one word, NO :lol:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> So does this mean I can now pull wheelies across stop signs in Provence or not? Confused!


Of course it does...... we know that you can afford those minor fines out of your loose change, what's a few thousand euros anyway AND they do serve French food in their prisons - so that must be a good thing...... :lol:

Just suppose you touch a French citizen (*OK I KNOW* they shouldn't get in your way.....)

*Causing serious injury by careless driving *

Fine = â‰¥ €45,000 Imprisonment = â‰¥ 3 years Penalty points = 6 Licence suspension 5-10 years

*Perturbing or obstructing traffic*

Fine €4,500 Imprisonment = 2 years Penalty points = 6, Licence suspension 3 years

*Not stopping before a stop sign*

Fine €135 Penalty points = 4 Licence suspension 3 years

The fine is reduced to €90 if you pay within 3 days or raised to €375 if you take more than 45....

(All figures come from the site I STRONGLY suggested should be used as accurate;

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

Just a few things to think about before you zap off to Provence......

Dave :lol:


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > So does this mean I can now pull wheelies across stop signs in Provence or not? Confused!
> ...


Dont worry Dave. The Little Peugeot bike isn't really up to pulling wheelies. In fact a hill start from a stop sign often needs a bit of pedalling from both driver and pillion! Less so since I lost weight. Comes down hills well though except in the Italian Dolomites where the brakes went which isn't much fun on an automatic.

Anyway. Scootering around France is a pleasant meandering experience. On a serious note as previously said. What we all do abroad is hopefully at a leisurely pace. We have nothing to worry about.


----------



## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

In there anyway of deleting this post or changing its title? I am probably not the only one who has wasted time, and unnecessary indignation, reading this post until it is exposed as a hoax at the end.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

DavyS said:


> In there anyway of deleting this post or changing its title? I am probably not the only one who has wasted time, and unnecessary indignation, reading this post until it is exposed as a hoax at the end.


Sadly, my chance to do that has long passed (you can only edit for 60 minutes after posting) and I can only hope that the site admin will take note of that request and PM's to do precisely that.

I am sorry to have wasted your time reading through it all, that was NOT my intention.

Apologies for causing that,

Dave


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

DavyS said:


> In there anyway of deleting this post or changing its title? I am probably not the only one who has wasted time, and unnecessary indignation, reading this post until it is exposed as a hoax at the end.


Quite the opposite I would have said. Thanks to Daves post he unwittingly uncovered something thats clearly doing the rounds, has been brought up on other forums and expat discussion groups and 747 and the wild camping lot have exposed it as a hoax (which is impressive as they only come out of their coffins at midnight!  )

Maybe admin could amend the title so its obvious straight away but it does still make good reading.

In effect we have actually beaten the hoaxers.


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Any kind of indignation against the French can never be described as wasted. :lol: 

Was it Oscar Wilde who said that? :?


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Good. Glad it's all a hoax. I'm off for an eight hour lunch with friends tomorrow and we usually quaff a few glasses. Now I know I can drive home OK.

Thanks Dave.
Ray.


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

It is a good example of how anything you receive by email or read on another forum should be checked before passing it on. 
Too many hoaxes are spread by well meaning, but naive, posters.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Good. Glad it's all a hoax. I'm off for an eight hour lunch with friends tomorrow and we usually quaff a few glasses. Now I know I can drive home OK.
> 
> Thanks Dave.
> Ray.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

aultymer said:


> It is a good example of how anything you receive by email or read on another forum should be checked before passing it on.
> Too many hoaxes are spread by well meaning, but naive, posters.


Why include the word naive?

The rest of your post was fair enough but that one extra word can put a lot of members off giving out any information and one day you might need that info.


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Why use that word?



> na·ive or na·ïve (n-v, nä-) also na·if or na·ïf (n-f, nä-)
> adj.
> 1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
> a. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.
> ...


Take your pick from the above.

That was me being tactfull! You don't want to know what I really think about people who pollute the internet with spoofs, spams and rubbish without bothering to do the simplest of checks.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

aultymer said:


> Why use that word?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally agree, which is why I had checked it and it had come back clean........

snopes STILL lists NONE of these for France and only one for California for 2007 but totally different in content, so direct comparison was not possible.

Dave

Just an addition - I have sent a PM to the site admin asking for the whole thread to be deleted or the title altered to make it clear that the OP is FALSE, I have not had any response yet.

It might help if others sent similar PM's to Nuke (or please report the OP as false) - I would appreciate it's removal or modification so that others are not misled - which was never my intention.

Thanks


----------



## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

I have requested the same or that you be re modified :wink:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Title of thread now amended to display that we now know it was based on fictitious information.

Thanks you to the site admin for doing that, once again, apologies from me for unintentionally misleading any and everyone.   

Dave


----------



## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> Title of thread now amended to display that we now know it was based on fictitious information.
> 
> Thanks you to the site admin for doing that, once again, apologies from me for unintentionally misleading any and everyone.
> 
> Dave


Don't think an apology is necessary Dave, you were just trying to pass on information which you clearly thought was bona fide to assist the rest of us.

Mike.


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

closed at the request of the OP


----------

