# Filling up with gas in France



## oldtart

We have two Gaslow cylinders which we fill up at the garages for the fridge, cooker etc.

Last October, at Brive sur Gaillarde we filled up with diesel and gas. When I went to pay, the attendant pointed to a poster, with gas bottles and black crosses on them. I think he said that we were not allowed to do this! 

Can anyone help.please? Is there a new law, and, if so, what are we supposed to do? It certainly hasn't happened in previous years.

Are there any problems in Spain?

Val


----------



## brynric

There have been several discussions on this and I think that the filling stations are wary of people filling the standard "calor" bottles. People who fill using an external gaslow connection appear to rarely have difficulties.
I usually ensure I fill with gas and diesel at different services. I don't often need both at the same time. We've never had a problem.
I haven't been to Spain yet, (roll on January) but it appears that LPG is more difficult to source. I plan to take a Gaslow Reserve Cylinder Connection Hose in order to use the local gas bottles.


----------



## listerdiesel

What most garages are against is loose bottles being filled.

As Bry has said above, if you fill at a filler point on the side of the vehicle there is usually no problem.

Peter


----------



## oldtart

Many thanks Bry and Peter. 

That's reassuring.

Val


----------



## Penquin

Agree, we have never had a problem filling with GPL, but do not try to fill both GPL and gasoil at the same station.

Our Gaslow filling point is external so we have no need to open lockers etc., so it simply looks as if we are filling with GPL. GPL is legal in France, although there are some suggestions that there are different restrictions such as cylinders Permanently installed, not strapped in, electronic stop valve fitted (but we have never seen that one in France).

Gaslow is available in France at most camping-car accessory shops and is gaining popularity. It is worth taking a certificate of conformity for the system IMO - that is available from Gaslow foc (or was when I asked).

Our MH was re-registered without any concerns over the gas system.

Spain is OK but fewer stations - so take a directory or plan well in advance.

There is a directory available on MHF;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Gas

BUT, there have been comments made over the last few months that it is not up to date and that the map does not work to help locate the station.....

although it does seem to work for me to some extent, but if you click on "detailed information" for a particular location it simply goes to a blank screen.......

Dave


----------



## Pat-H

If you fill at an external filler point it looks like your doing a regular LPG vehicle top up. Just don't buy diesel at the same time.
But to be honest will you be back to that same garage again any time soon? Once the gas in in they can't take it back out.
So once you've filled up just shrug and offer to pay. They either take payment or not.


----------



## Penquin

They have to release the gas machine to function often BEFORE you can fill up - they have the ability to leave it blocked if they are unsure.....

So keep a low profile, try to park so the MH obscures the view for the cashier etc........

Dave


----------



## oldtart

Thanks Dave and Pat.

We will look at the Spanish directory as we want to fill up before going over to Morocco.

I think there's one near Malaga. 

Val


----------



## peejay

Hi Val,

There is a possibility that you will be refused at some garages in France, especially if your filler is inside the gas compartment, it has happened to me twice, but if you do get refused there is usually another nearby.
Since then I have relocated my filler to the outside and have been asked once by the attendant whether it was for 'le moteur' or 'pour manger', I had to tell a little white lie before she would let me fill. :roll:

You should be fine in Spain, might be worth getting the new euro adapter though as some use that, I know the one at Los Barrios does which is the closest station to Algeciras if you're off to Morocco again :wink: .

Check out Olleys excellent LPG map for locations in Spain....

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...0&ll=36.200473,-5.515303&spn=0.00358,0.008256

Pete


----------



## Telbell

Confused here (not difficult :roll: ).

Had our Gaslow fitted by Van Bitz but I have to OPEN the gas locker to fill the cylinders.

Are we now saying this is of debateable legality/acceptability in some/many LPG/GPL places

They are obviously the same bottles/system as those with OUTSIDE fillers so what's the problem-and how do I overcome the problem (without taking the van back to EVB)

THanks


----------



## peejay

Its not a problem at the majority Tell, only some but Its more of an inconvenience and as I said if you do get refused, there is usually another one nearby.

Attendants can get a bit jittery when they see you connecting to gas bottles within your compartment as strictly speaking, gas bottles are not supposed to be refilled at LPG outlets, (you will see stickers with a picture of a gas bottle with a red slash through it at some stations), relocating the filler to outside the locker makes it appear that you are filling an external tank, not a bottle.

Pete


----------



## janet1

We used the book 'All the Aires of Spain & Portugal' as there is a map for each country showing all the LPG stations. They also give the co-ordinates - similar to aire sites. 

On occasions, we couldn't connect our adaptors (we have all the continental ones), and each time the cashier came out to see what we were fiddling with, then went back to her box and came out with her version of it. In the main they were very heplful.


----------



## erneboy

janet1 said:


> We used the book 'All the Aires of Spain & Portugal' as there is a map for each country showing all the LPG stations.


A long way off all in Spain for example as new ones are opening all the time. Best check Ollie's map if you have an internet connection it could save you a long unnecessary journey, Alan.


----------



## oldtart

Thank you so much for your information, Pete

We have the ones where you open the gas locker to fill the cylinders. 

Telbel As I understand him - Pete had the same but then had it adapted so he could fill from the outside without opening the gas locker.. We had this on our Mirage and Autotrail when we had a tank for the gas. I think the problem is when the attendants see the cylinders.

I am going to phone Gaslow tomorrow, 0845 4000 600 and ask about the certificate of compliance and the new Euro adaptor. Do I get them both through Gaslow Pete?

We are leaving on the 12th. August, so hope we can get them in time.

Marquis fitted the Gaslow cylinders


----------



## peejay

oldtart said:


> I am going to phone Gaslow tomorrow, 0845 4000 600 and ask about the certificate of compliance and the new Euro adaptor. Do I get them both through Gaslow Pete?


I don't have the certificate of comformity but you can certainly get the Spanish adaptor from Gaslow (part no 01-4305), although it might be worth shopping around a bit as I think Gasit and Autogas sell them as well.

Pete


----------



## Zebedee

oldtart said:


> I am going to phone Gaslow tomorrow, 0845 4000 600 and ask about the certificate of compliance and the new Euro adaptor. Do I get them both through Gaslow Pete?


In case Pete is not around, get the certificate of conformity from Gaslow. They are very helpful, and it will come via email attachment if you ask, so no delay at all.

I'd suggest you check the price of the adapter against Autogas2000. Same thing, but I quite a lot cheaper I think.

http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/lpgautogas-filling-adapters-1-c.asp

Dave


----------



## Telbell

" gas bottles are not supposed to be refilled at LPG outlets,"

More confused now-sorry

So if they're not supposed to be refilled at LPG outlets -where are we supposed to get then filled? Isn't the whole idea of Gaslow (and similar) that they ARE refilled so you don't have to lug them around to have calor bottles exchanged??

Aren't Gaslow bottles manufactured to be refilled?

And what difference will having a "Certificate of Conformity" make if you're not supposed to have gas bottles refilled-what does the Certificate say it is "conformed" to?- or "complies with?

Seems daft that I now have to (potentially) go from one LPG outlet to another in the hope that somewhere there'll be one which will allow me to do something they're not supposed to anyway.

And do our French friends know that their "refillable" bottles aren't supposed to be refilled?

And should companies(and people) be fitting Gaslow etc if they know the bottles aren';t supposed to be re-filled? :? :?

(should add that VB fitted mine about 3months ago and haven't refilled yet but I'll need to soon)


----------



## peejay

Its been done to death on here Tell.

You could always start by reading this 77 page thread...

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-997411.html#997411

plus loads of others if you haven't lost the will to live by then. :wink:

Pete


----------



## GerryD

I moved our filler to the outside before this year's trip, but was still stopped until I explained that I was filling up for Autogas. I was then allowed to carry on.
This was at Bourges this July.
Gerry


----------



## Penquin

LPG as sold by fuel stations is designed for use as road fuel - powering gas powered vehicles. We divert it to use for heating and cooking in the MH. Such things are questionable as to whether they are allowed or not in many countries where the autogas is sold as a road fuel ONLY.

Filing a cylinder has been shown to have risks due to people overfilling them - putting more liquid LPG into the cylinder than is considered safe by those that design the cylinders.

Gaslow have fitted an 80% cut-off valve which stops more than 80% of the cylinder being filled - in line with safety recommendations. BUT other cylinders are NOT fitted with such safety devices.

AFAIK there is no way that someone looking can see whether such a device is fitted or not, and even if it is fitted there is no way that it's effectiveness can be verified.

So the owners of where you want to fill it are confronted with it not being strictly in accordance with what they were told for the use of their equipment - the equipment that you wish to use to fill your cylinders. So they may not allow you to fill what they consider to be inappropriate equipment for a use that is not permitted (heating and cooking and not as a road fuel).

The Certificate of Conformity is printed proof that your numbered cylinders do contain a device to cut off the filling at 80% and that the system is in accordance with the international regulations for such things.

BUT it remains the responsibility of the filling station owner whether they wish to sell you LPG or not - and no-one can be compelled to sell something that they do not wish to for whatever reason.

By only filling e.g. gasoil at one filling station you are not giving the station operator the idea that the vehicle has more than one fuel source for road use. 

Visiting a second place for LPG does not cause confusion and does not give the operator of the station the information that the gas is NOT going to be used as a road fuel - you are effectively trying to pull the wool over their eyes so they do not ask.....

I do not believe that the UK is any different from anywhere else, the regulations are the same and the advice from the LPG operators advisory body is the same as in other countries.

The Gaslow system (or the AluGas system) is safe, if properly used, but refilling other cylinders made by other bodies for other uses may not be safe so is not permitted by the station operator.

The risk of an explosion and fire engulfing the entire filling station is real and well documented – hence their caution even though it is incorrect for such cylinders as Gaslow etc. Make and we use. But the local operator cannot tell how safe the system is – hence the CoC may help explain why it is OK to refill such cylinders (which are readily available throughout France).

Dave


----------



## johnthompson

The same regulations apply in the UK

User Information Sheet 026
August 2011
Replaces UKLPG Information Sheet 24 - June 2007
FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES

It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites.

Containers which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:
•	are not removed for refilling; and
•	are secured in a suitable enclosure; and
•	are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and
•	are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the container.


----------



## oldtart

Thank you Dave for spending so much time on your reply. We do appreciate it. 

I'm not going to get stressed out about it. We'll just take the advice given and fill up with diesel at one place and choose somewhere else for the gas. If they refuse we shall just have to go on elsewhere and make sure that we keep topped up, if possible.

Val


----------



## oldtart

Thank you John. Our posts crossed!

Val


----------



## Telbell

Thanks for that comprehensive reply Dave, so shouldn't the supplier of the Gaslow equipment issue the certificate rather than having to get one from gaslow. I don't.recollect van bitz giving me one. This seems to be a vital and necessity document to avoid problems, 

And those who have one- is it a matteof showing it to the lpg I supplier Before fopping up (presumably it is in different languages)-


----------



## Telbell

John. Thank you. That final part in black type suggests therfore that there should be no problem in UK but it doesn't seem to be accepted or apply in France


----------



## joedenise

For anyone who doesn't know, if you peel the Gaslow sticker off the filler cover it is embossed underneath with Autogas.

Joe


----------



## Zebedee

oldtart said:


> I'm not going to get stressed out about it. We'll just take the advice given and fill up with diesel at one place and choose somewhere else for the gas. If they refuse we shall just have to go on elsewhere and make sure that we keep topped up, if possible.
> Val


Easier than that Val.

Get a couple of threaded hooks and fix your cylinders to the floor of the gas locker so it's obvious they cannot be easily removed.

Then the attendants are far less likely to be bothered - especially if you print off the picture of a cutaway tank from the Gaslow website, which clearly shows the 80% cutoff valve.

I laminated the picture and tucked it under the retaining strap holding the cylinder. Never had to show it, but it would probably have worked.

Dave


----------



## Penquin

Telbell said:


> Thanks for that comprehensive reply Dave, so shouldn't the supplier of the Gaslow equipment issue the certificate rather than having to get one from gaslow. I don't.recollect van bitz giving me one. This seems to be a vital and necessity document to avoid problems,
> 
> And those who have one- is it a matteof showing it to the lpg I supplier Before fopping up (presumably it is in different languages)-


I have tried to attach ours as supplied by Gaslow by return of e-mail and foc as I said, but sadly the attachment limit of 1Mb stops me doing so and as it is a .pdf I cannot reduce it in size..... The 1Mb limit seems very small and applies to all attachments on the forum and via PM - very frustrating........

It is composed in Italian and English although we have never had to produce it at any filling station in any of the countries we have visited.....

Of course we do not refill with LPG on a daily basis - more like once a month......... so visiting different fuel outlets has never been a problem and we have filled up with both in some stations in France and Spain without any problems (we have an external filler cap labelled "Autogas" prominently). So there is no need to open lockers and raise concerns. Our cylinders are bolted in and so fulfil the requirements of the UK LPG Association (a trade body rather than regulatory I believe*) and the French requirements too......

*http://www.uklpg.org/

I do not know why the installer does not supply them - that perhaps is something to address to Gaslow.

Dave


----------



## Telbell

I've ttrawled and skimmed many of the 77 pages in the earlier link but can someone tell me or link me to the results of Zebedee s discussions with gaslow in 2011 as regards a multi lingual notice etc etc? Thanks


----------



## Penquin

Telbell said:


> I've ttrawled and skimmed many of the 77 pages in the earlier link but can someone tell me or link me to the results of Zebedee s discussions with gaslow in 2011 as regards a multi lingual notice etc etc? Thanks


At that time I (as a Moderator) took the decision after requests to lock the thread until Gaslow responded, I was severely criticised for doing so, in spite of the large number of requests to do so and the thread was re-opened.

AFAIK no response was ever received from Gaslow in spite of multiple requests, I have no idea why they failed to respond.

Dave


----------



## peejay

Call me cynical, but I doubt whether it will make a lot of difference flashing a certificate of conformity under the nose of monsieur/madame le attendant or showing that your 'gas bottles' are permanently lashed to the motorhome is going to make a lot of difference when these situations arise. 
He/she has probably been generally informed by management that refilling bottles is not allowed and probably has no knowledge about refillables with safety shut off valves.

However, as I said, in the main, they are isolated incidents so the majority should not have a problem.

I've had one challenge and 2 outright refill refusals over the past 2 years but I don't consider that as a big problem and accept that it will still occasionally happen.

Pete


----------



## Telbell

Thanks Dave, I'll contact gaslow and ask them for something. I understood that zeb was to speak to the gaslow chap at the nec but may have got that wrong. 

When we had ours fitted we were told the filler couldn't be fitted externally so it's within the gas locker-ironically a french vehicle! !


----------



## Zebedee

peejay said:


> *Call me cynical*, but I doubt whether it will make a lot of difference flashing a certificate of conformity under the nose of monsieur/madame le attendant or showing that your 'gas bottles' are permanently lashed to the motorhome is going to make a lot of difference when these situations arise. Pete


OK Pete if you insist, you are a cynical old sod! :wink:

But you are probably right. Having said "_Non_" I doubt if M. L'Attendant would change his mind in front of a Rosbif! :roll:

Since it was so little trouble to get the certificate and to fix the bottle to the floor, I thought it was worth the minimal effort. The lashings made the bottle more secure anyway, and were very obvious if anyone did ask to look.

I forgot to mention that I also had a translation in several languages (from a German website) of the regulation about having the bottle permanently fixed.

I am surprised that Tellbell's installers said the filler can't be fitted to the outside. I would bet next month's pension that it is possible (_well - 50p anyway_ :lol: ) even if it needs a strengthening bracket made . . . which may be fiddly and time consuming, and may explain why it was declared "impossible".

I moved my own to the outside skirt. It wasn't difficult, and the only caveat was taking care not to over-tighten the brass fittings. Lots of PTFE tape made that part easy enough, and completely gas tight.

Dave


----------



## KeithChesterfield

We've only needed to fill up once in France and the filler, in the locker, wasn't visible to the guy in the Total station and we had no problem.

What we did notice was that every Gas pump seemed to be on the 'wrong' side, in relation to our gas locker - and we've got a German MH.

Does anyone else have turn the MH round, the pipes never long enough to go round to the other side, or is it just ours?

Youtube video of us parking alongside an LPG pump - 




:wav: :wav: :wav:


----------



## Penquin

Agree with Keith about the wrong side - we once filled up with gasoil at Leclerc in Bergerac, and then had to reverse into the correct position for GPL and then pay....... 

but it was all OK and no questions asked or adverse comments etc.

Totally agree that the piece of paper is unlikely to change the attendants previously made up mind - he/she is probably working under a partial understanding and recall of what they were told when being trained, and "Non" is much easier and quicker to say in a foreign language than "Can I see you Certificate of Conformity and your translation please and can I then check that the cylinder is permanently fixed in with a separate filling point and that you are using the GPL as a road fuel and not for heating and cooking?"

Obtaining the CoC is easy, Gaslow are very helpful on that and also advised us about external filler caps - which was done for us by the people that installed it, it was installed at the Shepton Show in September 2007 and the external filler put in at the Exeter Show in January (?) 2010 for a very nominal price.

It took them all of 10 minutes to do....... although I did have my fingers crossed when they were cutting the hole in the skirt........ :lol: that was done near a supporting bracket for it so that it is fairly rigid at that point - he was careful to choose a suitable point even if it meant it was slightly further away from the locker.

I have always been wary of doing gas tight fittings but watching the installation was very helpful and it was not a difficult task - as Zebedee said.

I used roofing type bolts from B&Q to bolt it in - they are about 15cm long, 7mm diameter and with a handy curved washer type thing which hooks over the bottom of the cylinder well, it then passes through the floor of the locker and is tightened with very large washers to ensure the load is well spread. Easy and very secure - the Controle Technique garage here were well satisfied with it's security although it is not part of the CT check - he checked and was quite OK that it would not move, and so was permanently installed.

I would love to know what website Zebedee used for the translation - I can manage English, MrsW English, French and German and one daughter English, French, German and Italian too.......

Dave


----------



## Zebedee

Penquin said:


> I would love to know what website Zebedee used for the translation . . . Dave


I would tell you in an instant Dave, but . . . . . what was the question again?? :lol:

It was a German website concerned with motorhome gas bottle systems, and it quoted the requirement (_in several languages_) for having the bottles permanently fixed.

The impression I got was that the bottles were regarded as tanks if they could not be removed for filling. A subtle, but possibly important distinction??

It's all so grey and imprecise that you have to enter a filling station in the knowledge that you may have to try the next one down the road. I think a lot depends on the quality of the "Jobsworth" training M. le Gardien has received!! :roll: _(Just to show off that I know the correct term.)_

Dave


----------



## Penquin

OK Zebedee I realise that memory fades rapidly at our age....

is there any chance you could send me a scanned copy of it if you have it only as a hard copy, or an electronic version of you cans till find it on your "downloads"?

I think such a thing could be useful to have but cannot find it as my Google search terms are probably wrong........

I was very surprised by some of the listings when I tried "German gas cylinders refilling rules" - quite how that linked to some of the dubious sites it listed I am not too sure.......... and don't wish to open them to find out either..... :lol: 

Dave


----------



## salomon

We had Alugas fitted in Germany about a month ago. The fella said that it is offically classed as a tank which is why it does not cause any problems. We have all the paperwork but its all in German naturally with the exception of the sticker he put on the inside of the door which is in multi languages and states its conformity ie its a tank !


----------



## SidT

Hi Keith.
I agree about the pumps being on the wrong side.

We filled up at Auchan at Coquelles and turned around as we approached the pumps and reversed onto the pump, filled up, parked up and walked over to the kiosk to pay. no problem.

Telbell.
We have filled up many times over the last 8 years, I don't think you will have any problems.

Sid.


----------



## Stanner

oldtart said:


> Thank you Dave for spending so much time on your reply. We do appreciate it.
> 
> I'm not going to get stressed out about it. We'll just take the advice given and fill up with diesel at one place and choose somewhere else for the gas. If they refuse we shall just have to go on elsewhere and make sure that we keep topped up, if possible.
> 
> Val


If you really do need to fill with both at the same place just make sure you fill with gas first, then when they realise you are getting derv as well it's too late for them to cut off the gas.


----------



## listerdiesel

Fitting an external filler point is quite easily done, almost DIY if you can get the right hole size cut, but I'd recommend a stiffening panel to hold the filler and support the weight of the filling nozzle when attached, especially if it going onto a skirt section of the body:










We didn't really need it as the trailer wall is 14mm plywood/grp sandwich, but it shows the sort of thing.

Peter


----------



## nicholsong

oldtart said:


> We have two Gaslow cylinders which we fill up at the garages for the fridge, cooker etc.
> 
> Last October, at Brive sur Gaillarde we filled up with diesel and gas. When I went to pay, the attendant pointed to a poster, with gas bottles and black crosses on them. I think he said that we were not allowed to do this!
> 
> Can anyone help.please? Is there a new law, and, if so, what are we supposed to do? It certainly hasn't happened in previous years.
> 
> Are there any problems in Spain?
> 
> Val


So presumably it was illegal for the station to sell you the gas and therefore they did not charge for it  :lol:


----------



## Telbell

" We have all the paperwork but its all in German naturally with the exception of the sticker he put on the inside of the door which is in multi languages and states its conformity ie its a tank !"

What doesn't help is that Gaslow, on their website, call them "cylinders" and not "tanks"- as I think we all do!

Thanks to those giving reassurance and I take Val's point about not being stressed out. When the massive 77 page thread was started I had no intention of going down the refillable route so didn't bother looking at it-but seeing this one did give some concern.

Putting a hole in the side of the van/skirt( I believe it's not advised to put the filler in the locker door) is not something I feel competent in doing sop I'll probably see how I get on in forthcoming September trip and decide later whether to bother having it rte-sited.

Oh- and I'll top up before leaving these shores :lol:


----------



## Zebedee

Penquin said:


> is there any chance you could send me a scanned copy of it if you have it only as a hard copy, or an electronic version of you can still find it on your "downloads"?
> I think such a thing could be useful to have but cannot find it as my Google search terms are probably wrong........ Dave


I've found this, which might be useful. Unfortunately it looks like the whole saga is about to kick off again - lets hope we don't get another 77 pages like last time. :roll:

>> See Here <<

No date on the article quoted, but the website is right up to date (_see the holiday closure dates_) so this may well be something else to worry about!! An external filler looks more and more essential.

Dave

P.S. The "tank bottle" retainers are shown >> here <<

The threaded hooks are exactly what I used, and are very easy to fit through the gas locker floor . . . and highly visible to inspection.


----------



## nicholsong

Telbell said:


> " We have all the paperwork but its all in German naturally with the exception of the sticker he put on the inside of the door which is in multi languages and states its conformity ie its a tank !"
> 
> What doesn't help is that Gaslow, on their website, call them "cylinders" and not "tanks"- as I think we all do!
> 
> Thanks to those giving reassurance and I take Val's point about not being stressed out. When the massive 77 page thread was started I had no intention of going down the refillable route so didn't bother looking at it-but seeing this one did give some concern.
> 
> Putting a hole in the side of the van/skirt( I believe it's not advised to put the filler in the locker door) is not something I feel competent in doing sop I'll probably see how I get on in forthcoming September trip and decide later whether to bother having it rte-sited.
> 
> Oh- and I'll top up before leaving these shores :lol:


I should not be worried about cutting a hole in the skirt. Our MH skirt is metal and while it took a bit of time and pressure leaning on the hole-cutter it was straightforward. A plastic skirt would be easier.

Geoff


----------



## nicholsong

Zebedee said:


> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there any chance you could send me a scanned copy of it if you have it only as a hard copy, or an electronic version of you can still find it on your "downloads"?
> I think such a thing could be useful to have but cannot find it as my Google search terms are probably wrong........ Dave
> 
> 
> 
> I've found this, which might be useful. Unfortunately it looks like the whole saga is about to kick off again - lets hope we don't get another 77 pages like last time. :roll:
> 
> >> See Here <<
> 
> No date on the article quoted, but the website is right up to date (_see the holiday closure dates_) so this may well be something else to worry about!! An external filler looks more and more essential.
> 
> Dave
> 
> P.S. The "tank bottle" retainers are shown >> here <<
> 
> The threaded hooks are exactly what I used, and are very easy to fit through the gas locker floor . . . and highly visible to inspection.
Click to expand...

Dave, you are usually spot on with your use of English and meanings, so I was a little surprised by the link you posted, unless it was tongue in cheek, because it seems to say , in very badly-worded text, 'only buy our green bottles' regardless of the fact that any bottle/tank/cylinder should have to conform to technical specifications regardless of whether it is painted purple, orange or sh*t-brown.

Please tell me it was a joke and that I rose to the bait?

Geoff


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Geoff

No - I'm afraid it was no joke.

I found it while searching (without success) for the info Penquin requested.

I posted it because, *if that article is recent*, it looks as though there may be a problem brewing in Germany. Quote, _"There is a great uncertainty, for the time being, with refuelling tank bottles. Gas stations in Germany refuse the refuelling. *The trigger point was a circular letter of the German Confederation "Liquid Gas at all Gas Stations".* "_

The mire could hit the fan again - in Germany at least. I wasn't suggesting that anyone should panic, but knowledge of what _*may *_be a developing situation can only be useful!

Dave


----------



## nicholsong

Zebedee said:


> Hi Geoff
> 
> No - I'm afraid it was no joke.
> 
> I found it while searching (without success) for the info Penquin requested.
> 
> I posted it because, *if that article is recent*, it looks as though there may be a problem brewing in Germany. Quote, _"There is a great uncertainty, for the time being, with refuelling tank bottles. Gas stations in Germany refuse the refuelling. *The trigger point was a circular letter of the German Confederation "Liquid Gas at all Gas Stations".* "_
> 
> The mire could hit the fan again - in Germany at least. I wasn't suggesting that anyone should panic, but knowledge of what _*may *_be a developing situation can only be useful!
> 
> Dave


Dave

It is still a 'newsletter' from a manufacturer. What is the German Government legislation? The piece seems to be very wooly on what is 'movable' etc but does seem to differentiate between bottles with 80% shut-off and others, which rely on the professional fillers to not over-fill.

Even if the law were to forbid the filling of gaslow-type tanks, how would it be policed? If I said I was filling a LPG-propelled vehicle with the appropriate tank are the cashiers qualified to ascertain the truth of that statement without opening up the engine compartment and inspecting the installation of the tank, which an owner could refuse to a civilian employee? OK they call the police by which time I have driven to the next, one in 5,000, station where the cashier is not looking at the vehicle - or does not care, because of the difficulties cited above.

Geoff

Maybe Gaslow or Alugas can shed more light on the latest law.


----------



## nicholsong

Dave 

I have just sent an e-mail to the German Embassy in London requesting an English language version of the current, and any proposed changes to, the rules on filling tanks with 80% cut-off protection on German filling stations.

Will advise result.

Geoff


----------



## listerdiesel

I would like to know more on the 'apparent' ban on using Autogas for motorhome cooking/heating etc. It has been mentioned before, I believe that one poster said it was illegal to use it for cooking in Italy(?)

As it is a fuel that has revenue tax on it, I can't see a problem, unless road fuel Autogas has a lower revenue tax than regular domestic butane/propane.

Peter


----------



## Zebedee

Well done Geoff.

If you get a response it should carry some weight from there.

I do agree that in almost every case there will be no problem at all, but in the mammoth 77 page thread some folk were getting more than a bit paranoid. My philosophy if we were stopped from filling would be to try a bit of good natured haggling (_with lots of Gallic shrugs _ :wink: ) and try the next place up the road if I didn't succeed.

Dave


----------



## rayc

listerdiesel said:


> As it is a fuel that has revenue tax on it, I can't see a problem, unless road fuel Autogas has a lower revenue tax than regular domestic butane/propane.
> 
> Peter


A very interesting topic. The Fuel duty on LPG used as a road fuel is 31.6p per kg. There is of course vat at standard rate to be added to that. This is known a 'duty paid' gas.

I believe that no duty is paid on gas supplied for heating etc and is known as 'duty free' gas. Vat is payable at standard rate. I wonder why bottled gas is so expensive, I must have missed something.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ntent&id=HMCE_CL_000173&propertyType=document

"If a road vehicle carries gas-powered equipment (for example, refrigerating apparatus or an exhaust gas purifier) the gas for such equipment is liable to duty if it is drawn from or connected to a supply which is also used to propel the vehicle, even though such equipment does not contribute to the propulsion of the vehicle. Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an independent supply."


----------



## 113016

I have only used refillable fixed bottles for about three years and we have had a filler point on the side of our vans.
Never have we been refused gas. 
We have refilled numerous times in France, Spain, Portugal and Germany.
We have twin bottles, and we refill when the first is getting low. If we were refused, we would simply find another station. Not a problem at all!
As we wild, and use aire's we do tend to refill every week to second week!
Regarding the lower VAT rate for domestic gas. Personally, I think if we try to push for lower VAT, we may very well find gas outlets refusing gas to M/H's. Best leave well alone


----------



## erneboy

rayc said:


> Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an independent supply."


Those are the killer words surely. What business would install a tank specifically to satisfy that requirement? Alan.


----------



## listerdiesel

In theory then, we should be able to ask for Autogas without Road Fuel Duty if it is not part of the propulsion system.

I wonder what Calor would do if we went to one of their depots and asked that?

Or would they say we had to use Butane or Propane at retail shop prices?

Peter


----------



## 113016

listerdiesel said:


> In theory then, we should be able to ask for Autogas without Road Fuel Duty if it is not part of the propulsion system.
> 
> I wonder what Calor would do if we went to one of their depots and asked that?
> 
> Or would they say we had to use Butane or Propane at retail shop prices?
> 
> Peter


They would probably stop M/H's from filling up.
better to pay a few pence more than run the risk of have the facilities withdrawn.


----------



## rayc

Grath said:


> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> 
> In theory then, we should be able to ask for Autogas without Road Fuel Duty if it is not part of the propulsion system.
> 
> I wonder what Calor would do if we went to one of their depots and asked that?
> 
> Or would they say we had to use Butane or Propane at retail shop prices?
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> They would probably stop M/H's from filling up.
> better to pay a few pence more than run the risk of have the facilities withdrawn.
Click to expand...

I agree. I cannot understand why bottled gas is so expensive if there is no fuel duty on it. Anyone any idea of the cost breakdown of £28 for 13kg of bottled Propane? It cannot just be Calor making a few bucks as the cost in France for Total Gaz is comparable.


----------



## Telbell

I've just had an email reply "Jacquie" at Gaslow in response to mine asking about a Certificate of Conformity"....and its perceived value (or indeed purpose)

Contents as followed:

"Thank you for your email, could you please advise if you have a 6kg or 11kg cylinder. If it is an 11kg please advise if it is one of the newer cylinders R67 as shown in the picture attached, should this be the case you do not require a certificate as these have been approved and manufactured for the French market.
"

Ours indeed are 11kg and seem to be identical to the one she attached in a picture. But the last line about approved for FRance is interesting.

I agree that Gaslow should surely be informed (reminded?) of the issues somne of us are having/may have and get their reaction.

And I'd still be interested to hear the discussions Dave (Zeb) had with the Gaslow "boss man" at the NEC show in....Feb 2011?


----------



## zedman

any body know what size hole cutter is req'd for the gaslow filler ?

cheers ian


----------



## peejay

More info on the new R67 cylinder in >this thread< that might be of interest towards the end.

Pete


----------



## erneboy

listerdiesel said:


> In theory then, we should be able to ask for Autogas without Road Fuel Duty if it is not part of the propulsion system.


You can ask but it's unlikely to happen because the VAT guidance says, "Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an independent supply."



listerdiesel said:


> I wonder what Calor would do if we went to one of their depots and asked that?
> 
> Peter


I imagine that they would decline to supply you on that basis and if who ever you asked knew the reason why not they would tell that they would need another pump in order to do that and quote what I quoted above by way of explanation,
Alan.


----------



## Penquin

The thread that peejay linked to (started by Nukeadmin) makes interesting reading - particularly the last few posts from OTHER suppliers of refillable gas systems .........

the situation is nothing like as clear as it may appear at first glance, the French system is nothing like what it is expected to be as mentioned in this post;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1449406.html#1449406

Our MH has a Gaslow system and now has French registration and there were absolutely no problems with such things. Gaslow is also on sale in very many camping car accessory outlets (although the cost is eye-watering).

Just because it is written on some piece of paper somewhere does not make it effective throughout the country........

The same thing has been seen repeatedly - all signs warning of speed cameras were supposed to have been removed last year, a few were, many were not and some have now been replaced......

The same differences in application can be frequently encountered, just because Paris says it is so, does not mean it is always applied consistently.

My general comment is not to worry about such a thing too much - only the Brits try to obey every dot and cross of every law or recommendation - as has been seen and commented upon frequently.
*DO NOT LOSE ANY SLEEP OVER THIS*, if you are refused a refill, go elsewhere - there are more than enough places to buy GPL.

The moral is surely to never get so low that you HAVE to fill up there and only there, plan to refill before you get desperate, and then fill up the GPL* first *before filling with gasoil (LPG then diesel), as has been said before............. :?

Dave


----------



## rogerblack

erneboy said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an independent supply."
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the killer words surely. What business would install a tank specifically to satisfy that requirement? Alan.
Click to expand...

On the complete quoted piece, I read that as meaning if the gas for the refrigeration equipment or whatever is drawn from an independent supply on the vehicle, i.e. a separate tank from the propulsion fuel tank, then the lower rate applies when that is filled.


----------



## erneboy

As far as I recall that wasn't how suppliers were interpreting it the last time this came up Roger.

But even if you are correct there are further complications, accounting for the lower VAT rate would be quite bothersome to administer. VAT inspectors would almost certainly pick up on it making inspections more complicated. They might even insist that the retailer keep record of who bought on that basis. All of that adds complications and costs for the retailer for no gain at all. 

I see no incentive for them to do it given the vast majority of sales must be for propulsion, Alan.


----------



## Penquin

IMO if that was sought, fuel retailers would rapidly say "No Motorhomes" as the paperwork and associated costs would be greater than the return.

Trying to get that tax reduced would be likely to result in an more widespread refusal.

That may be defeatist but the amount saved is not a significant contribution towards the cost of buying and running a motorhome.......

Costs per kg fuel;

........................Crude ...Margin...Excise.....VAT......Total

United Kingdom € 0.205 € 0.290 € 0.197 € 0.139 € 0.831 

so the saving would be of the order of €0.20 per kg if the excise duty was zero (about 18p).

Dave


----------



## oldtart

I have been in contact with Robert at Gaslow. Today. He will send me the certificate of compliance by e mail. He needs the size of the cylinders and the 6 figure serial number beginning with 0 on the cylinders. He was very helpful.

Any of the companies who install the Gaslow cylinders will convert to an external point if needed. 

Thank you Dave for your advice.

Val


----------



## 113016

Penquin said:


> IMO if that was sought, fuel retailers would rapidly say "No Motorhomes" as the paperwork and associated costs would be greater than the return.
> 
> Trying to get that tax reduced would be likely to result in an more widespread refusal.
> 
> That may be defeatist but the amount saved is not a significant contribution towards the cost of buying and running a motorhome.......
> 
> Costs per kg fuel;
> 
> ........................Crude ...Margin...Excise.....VAT......Total
> 
> United Kingdom € 0.205 € 0.290 € 0.197 € 0.139 € 0.831
> 
> so the saving would be of the order of €0.20 per kg if the excise duty was zero (about 18p).
> 
> Dave


Dave, exactly what I meant a few posts ago, but put much better.  Thanks


----------



## peejay

There was a post a while back that mentioned that Countrywide Farm Supplies will supply duty free LPG to their customers, whether that's still the case, I don't know.

A quick google and >this< appears to be their website.

Pete


----------



## pippin

The only snag is that "Countrywide" is a misnomer!


----------



## rogerblack

This all sounds remarkably similar to the situation concerning the use of fuel on boats, where there is a system in place to cope with the differing rates of tax relating to the common mixed use for propulsion and for non-propulsion, e.g. heating etc.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_029598&propertyType=document

It works, albeit by no means perfectly.
So it wouldn't require a reinvention of the wheel.


----------



## Penquin

Roger,

that link fails at point 3.1 at a quick glance.....

there is a requirement for ALL suppliers to register and then keep separate records AND supply it in marked containers......

How do you mark gas containers?

Separate pump - the cost would be prohibitive,

so greater costs, more paperwork, more registration for ANY vendor that thinks they MIGHT sell to MH.

The answer will be exactly as I said; "NO MOTORHOMES"

that is not a route that would be advisable IMO and I would object if others tried to force that through as it would backfire on the vast majority who are frankly not worried about 18p per kg or less than £1.80 for a refill of a large (11kg) cylinder.

It may seem unfair but who said the law is fair in so many other areas? Why are the VED rates for MH less than many cars? Why are some vehicles excluded from London whilst identical engine vehicles a year younger are freely permitted?

There are things to battle over - trying to obtain LPG duty free is not one of them IMO.

Attempts to do that will result in refillable cylinders being owned that cannot be refilled easily without going to special "designated" stations, where the cost will probably be higher and you will pay considerably more travelling to the special station possibly 20 or 30 miles away..... where the forecourt owner is prepared to face the extra bureaucratic tasks involved so that a few MH owners can have gas slightly cheaper than at other places........

It wouldn't make economic sense, even though it might be considered "fair"........

Dave


----------



## erneboy

rogerblack said:


> This all sounds remarkably similar to the situation concerning the use of fuel on boats, where there is a system in place to cope with the differing rates of tax relating to the common mixed use for propulsion and for non-propulsion, e.g. heating etc.
> 
> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_029598&propertyType=document
> 
> It works, albeit by no means perfectly.
> So it wouldn't require a reinvention of the wheel.


No Roger, it wouldn't require the invention of the wheel.

But when it comes to boats most of the fuel is used in working boats so the system accommodates them because it must. We don't have that leverage, Alan.


----------



## 113016

If we go down the route of demanding lower tax on our m/h gas, the gas retailers will just stop selling to us.
We will be just more trouble than we are worth  
In the big picture, M/H gas sales via refillable systems must be a very low percentage.
Seems like we will be cutting off our noses to spite our face  
The savings we would make, hardly make a dent in our M/Hing costs :!:


----------



## arwvet

Ian

You need a 70mm hole saw (and a huge chuck).

Andrew


----------



## zedman

cheers andrew


----------



## listerdiesel

arwvet said:


> Ian
> 
> You need a 70mm hole saw (and a huge chuck).
> 
> Andrew


We did the holes in the 14mm GRP?Plywood sides of the trailer using a Hitachi battery drill and a suitable hole saw. Less than a minute or so each side.

If anyone wants to borrow the hole saw, give me a shout, we've built up a decent assortment of sizes, and we have a good stockist locally that carries the full range of Morse hole saws and arbors.

Note that the standard filler housing won't go on anything much thicker than 4-5mm as it is a 2-part assembly, that's why we had the stainless mounting plates made up for the trailer.

Peter


----------



## Telbell

Just had this flyer through by email from Gaslow. Hope the pic can be seen!


----------



## dalspa

I have been following this thread with added interest as only last weekend I fitted a single Gaslow bottle and external filler - all to make it easier to fill/top up when on our travels. Filled up for the first time yesterday and all went well with the fill cutting off at 21 litres (max 22.5) so allowing for a little air (to be expelled) indicated to me that the 80% cut off was working ok. We are off to France in 10 days for a month so may need topping up there, so will see if we are allowed to fill. As suggested, I will do it separate from gazoil filling so, hopefully, all will be ok. If challenged I will say it is Autogaz. If still refused I will try elsewhere. I can't see that the cashier is going to rush out to every m/h that pulls up outside the gaz pump to check if it runs on gaz. Going to use Le Cube (Butagaz) as my spare (and bbq), in UK and France, as I have been doing this for years anyway. The Le Cube bottle fits nicely and allows for storage on top. The connector is the same as for BP lite bottles, which I have previously used and which I have two partially filled bottles to finish off.

Interesting reading the Gaslow flyer - the new French regulations seem to insist that only tanks are used but Gaslow refer to their new R67 cylinders! Love France and the French, but they do come up with some annoying rulings - breathaliser kits (dropped), no speed/safety camera warnings on satnavs (I use a Roadpilot Micro Go for giving digital speed readings but it has the speed camera locations built into it - so can't be used), and now this gas refilling issue!

DavidL


----------



## Telbell

I notice the handles for portability on the R67 have disappeared too :lol:


----------



## 91502

We used to use a farm shop for filling both a LPG powered range rover and also gaslow in our MH and they would without asking charge the lower price for the MH.
This system is open to abuse as over time it would be a massive saving for high mileage users, this is why people fill their cars from bottled gas or even cheaper have bulk tanks in the garden but no gas central heating. 
This is why there are so many gas transfer pumps on sale which is fine until things go bang or you get caught.

James


----------



## rayc

JP said:


> We used to use a farm shop for filling both a LPG powered range rover and also gaslow in our MH and they would without asking charge the lower price for the MH.
> This system is open to abuse as over time it would be a massive saving for high mileage users, this is why people fill their cars from bottled gas or even cheaper have bulk tanks in the garden but no gas central heating.
> This is why there are so many gas transfer pumps on sale which is fine until things go bang or you get caught.
> 
> James


So bottled gas provided for cooking and heating is cheaper than road propulsion LPG. Why then does it cost £28 for a 13kg bottle of Calor Propane versus approx £18 for the equivalent 26 litres of LPG at a filling station?


----------



## 91502

rayc said:


> So bottled gas provided for cooking and heating is cheaper than road propulsion LPG. Why then does it cost £28 for a 13kg bottle of Calor Propane versus approx £18 for the equivalent 26 litres of LPG at a filling station?


Because that's what Calor charge once they have people trapped into their bottles, I pay £11.50 from an independent local firm for 11kg and if they don't have any in stock as its not a common bottle size they collect my bottle and refill it.

James


----------



## pippin

Refillable (Calor & etc) bottles have to be collected en masse from the various retailers and taken back to a depôt where they are checked and refilled individually, a labour-intensive process.

They then have to be returned to the various retailers.

With Autogas it is delivered in bulk and then your free labour does the refilling!

That sounds like a cheaper process to me!


----------



## hogan

A couple of years ago when this topic. Came up I read it all through panicked and altered my internal filler to external .when I was in France I noticed that lots of campers were filling Gaslow bottles with internally mounted fillers.
This year I have a different motorhome and this one has a internal filler.
Shall I change it ?
No I will take my chances.

I would think that given a few more days the other well publicised topic of gas attacks will be resurrected


----------



## pippin

Propane IS a GAS - and I get attacked by it everytime I disconnect the filler gun!

So, there is no myth about garse attarks - they really do happen!


----------



## Zebedee

pippin said:


> So, there is no myth about *garse *attarks - they really do happen!


Are you suggesting it bites you in the bum Pippin???

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## nicholsong

Telbell said:


> I notice the handles for portability on the R67 have disappeared too :lol:


Perhaps that is because once installed they are not intended to be portable :lol:

Geoff


----------



## 113016

Our Alugas cylinders came with a removable collar which incorporated the handle. Similar to Calor bottles.
I removed it prior to fitting. It gives easier access to the valves.


----------



## KeithChesterfield

I think too many people are getting worried about filling up Gaslow systems when there have only been a few cases of refusal at Service Stations and the vast majority of MH owners are getting no hassle at all.

We only needed to top up once in France last month - but we did visit two LPG stations.

The first, a 'Lady', screamed at us (I kid you not!) that unless we topped up within the next minute she was off for her dinner and the gas would be shut off.

As we would have taken some time to turn the MH round to get to the pipe we decided to go elsewhere to find a less uptight attendant.

The second, a few miles down the road, had the attendant sitting firmly on his seat in the shop and he couldn't have cared less whether we had an internal or external filler.

You're supposed to be on holiday when you go to France – chill!

PS - ours is internal.

:wav: :wav: :wav:


----------



## 113016

While we had our previous van, there was the well documented (on here) scare about fastening bottles down, with metal straps or bottom clips.
So, I went to the trouble of making some metal straps, with rubber protection between the bottles, and I fitted them.
Now on our present van, although I have them, I just could not be bothered to fit. I will make do with the manufacturers supplied straps.
I do have an external filler, as I did on our previous van.
Never been refused or had any issue yet


----------



## BR11SUE

KeithChesterfield said:


> I think too many people are getting worried about filling up Gaslow systems when there have only been a few cases of refusal at Service Stations and the vast majority of MH owners are getting no hassle at all


We also have a gaslow system with an external filler fitted to the gas locker door. It consists of just one 11kg bottle with a stainless steel braided connector hose (all supplied by Hamiltons).

We also carry one 6kg Calor lite bottle in the gas locker just for use with our Cadac.

I'm in the habit of keeping the gaslow cylinder topped up and I've re-filled the LPG bottle numerous times and in various places, i.e. on autoroutes, supermarket and other filling stations without any hassle or refusal whatsoever.

We're off again in September to St Raphael for just 4-weeks and therefore, having already refilled the gas in the UK, I shouldn't need to top up until we return home.


----------



## peejay

I don't think people should be worried about it, but you do need to be aware that there is a possibility of a refusal occasionally in France. It does happen.

As I said before I have had 1 query about what the gas was used for (I lied!) before they would turn on the pump and 2 outright refusals. There's always another one up the road that will fill you.

Even after those 3 incidents i'm not unduly concerned about it.

Pete


----------



## Zebedee

Grath said:


> So, I went to the trouble of making some metal straps, with rubber protection between the bottles, and I fitted them.
> Now on our present van, although I have them, I just could not be bothered to fit.


I agree absolutely Graham. :wink:

Except that you have the straps already, and 20 minutes work (max) might save you some hassle on holiday.

I try to balance the effort against the potential benefits, and if the former is fairly trivial I usually do the job. Just my opinion of course, but I think it's worth it so there is less chance of meeting problems on holiday - which we definitely do not want!

Dave


----------



## 113016

Zebedee said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I went to the trouble of making some metal straps, with rubber protection between the bottles, and I fitted them.
> Now on our present van, although I have them, I just could not be bothered to fit.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree absolutely Graham. :wink:
> 
> Except that you have the straps already, and 20 minutes work (max) might save you some hassle on holiday.
> 
> I try to balance the effort against the potential benefits, and if the former is fairly trivial I usually do the job. Just my opinion of course, but I think it's worth it so there is less chance of meeting problems on holiday - which we definitely do not want!
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave, but in all the years I have been M/Hing, no one has ever shown any interest in looking at my gas set up, let alone where the filler is, which as I said is external.
I can't really see anybody wanting to look in my gas locker, except maybe for the tunnel!
Our locker is a little awkward to access as it is inside the garage.


----------



## hogan

I don't care I am still not going to move mine outside. :smileycouncil: :smileycouncil: :wav:


----------



## moby56

oldtart said:


> Thanks Dave and Pat.
> 
> We will look at the Spanish directory as we want to fill up before going over to Morocco.
> 
> I think there's one near Malaga.
> 
> Val


If you are going to Morocco although no LPG, the local gas bottles fits on to the gaslow pigtail a full bottle costs about £14 and a bottle change when empty costs about £4 you can buy the bottles or refills at almost every shop in most places


----------



## skolly

*LPG*

Have just returned from travelling through France we had some difficulty in finding a garage to refill our Gasflow cylinder (we only had it fitted in July). We called at a couple of Total and Shell garages both had signs on pump to say NO filling of cylinders (only vehicles tanks).... said it was a company rule. (PS in the end, and out of desperation, we did fill up at a Total garage in France without anyone seeing what we were doing). 
Crossed over to Spain and called in at a Repsol garage. The new adaptor we had bought when we had the system fitted in UK did not fit the pump nozzle. It appeared that the Pump nozzle was designed only to fit vehicle tank caps.

We may have been unlucky in our choice of filling stations but would be interested to know if other members have had similar problems.

We live near Torrevieja in Spain..... does anyone know of a filling station nearby where we can fill up.

thanks


----------



## rosalan

There are two in the Centre of Torre. If you Google' Repsol GPL Spain' it shows clearly the streets they are in.

Alan


----------



## barryd

As mentioned before I seldom have bother as I have a side filler.

Still had the odd one try and refuse or come out and check. I just show then the filler and say Autogas!! Always works although they must wonder why I only put a tenners worth in!


----------



## flyinghigh

I have just moved my filler to the outside, so no need to open the gas locker, also removed the the gaslow sticker from the filler cap, underneath is a engraved auto gas lettering, filled with with white paint it is clearly visible, from a distance, 
but can you beleave it I was stopped at the tunnel because they weren't too sure if I could use the train with a motor powered by Autogas, had to show them the diesel filler and explain the Autogas filler was only for the bottles and both were turned off,
Isn't life fun! Solve one problem and create another.


----------



## HermanHymer

*Re: LPG*



skolly said:


> Have just returned from travelling through France we had some difficulty in finding a garage to refill our Gasflow cylinder (we only had it fitted in July). We called at a couple of Total and Shell garages both had signs on pump to say NO filling of cylinders (only vehicles tanks).... said it was a company rule. (PS in the end, and out of desperation, we did fill up at a Total garage in France without anyone seeing what we were doing).
> Crossed over to Spain and called in at a Repsol garage. The new adaptor we had bought when we had the system fitted in UK did not fit the pump nozzle. It appeared that the Pump nozzle was designed only to fit vehicle tank caps.
> 
> We may have been unlucky in our choice of filling stations but would be interested to know if other members have had similar problems.
> 
> We live near Torrevieja in Spain..... does anyone know of a filling station nearby where we can fill up.
> 
> thanks


Had no problems at Avia. I always look for one that looks as if it has "employees" as opposed to "owners/managers" and a queue to keep them occupied.


----------

