# Bexhill Sea front Parking



## piinch (May 17, 2009)

I was walking along seafront at bexhill, found that new signs have been erected, 
also found the new bylaw.
http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdo...ilitem6ExperimentalTrafficOrderNoWaitingb.pdf
I hope this helps a few people


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

The level of ignorance displayed by some authorities such as Bexhill here is amazing . Apart from any other arguments one wonders what levels of disturbance over and above the obvious noise from traffic in this area Motorhomes are making????
I know that area fairly well and find it hard to believe there is a major problem. Perhaps the OP can enlighten us all.
At the end of the day the answer is that all councils should designate carparks for overnight MH parking and make bylaws that will effectively stop "Travellers/Gypseys " from parking up whcih is what they all seem to be obsessed with. 
After all that is what happened in France and they manage things well with very few problems !!!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

BrianJP said:


> The level of ignorance displayed by some authorities such as Bexhill here is amazing . Apart from any other arguments one wonders what levels of disturbance over and above the obvious noise from traffic in this area Motorhomes are making????
> I know that area fairly well and find it hard to believe there is a major problem. Perhaps the OP can enlighten us all.
> At the end of the day the answer is that all councils should designate carparks for overnight MH parking and make bylaws that will effectively stop "Travellers/Gypseys " from parking up whcih is what they all seem to be obsessed with.
> After all that is what happened in France and they manage things well with very few problems !!!


They just dont seem to care though. There have been loads of these threads lately on here and the other forums.

Despite peoples best efforts to write to councils and take part in discussions on none motorhome forums such as local press websites if anything the problem is getting worse.

Lets just ban everything! Thats the answer to our struggling economy.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

> 3.3 The Emergency Services, Rother District Council, the local Member, the Freight Transport Association and the Road Haulage Association have all been consulted on the proposed parking restriction and no objections were received.


It's OK they carried out "meaningful consultation".

I wasn't aware either of those august bodies represented the interests of motor caravanners.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

I've done some research and the restriction only applies to


> both sides of De La Warr Parade from the junction with Brookfield Road eastwards to the end of the public highway at the bottom of Galley Hill by the Angling Club.


Which I take to be "Bexhill Sea Angling Club" from Google streetview this appears to be just the stretch of De La Warr Parade which is in front of people's homes - it doesn't seem to apply to the parade east of the Angling Club which is backed by a grassed area.

So perhaps it isn't quite as bad as it looks at first sight? Just park up further out past the Angling Club where you are not right in front of someone's home.

Could the OP check that is correct? 
That overnight parking is not prohibited beyond the Angling Club?


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## stevethebeekeeper (Jan 23, 2011)

Stanner said:


> I wasn't aware either of those august bodies represented the interests of motor caravanners.


I agree none of those bodies help our cause. I do think we need a group to promote m/h's in the UK as there is no one. (at the moment).

CC & C&CC are certainly not interested in m/h's, m/h parking, aire's or wilding and won't help. Even if members lobbied them to help I doubt there would be enough m/h'ers to win a majority. But I also suspect they are too engrained in caravans, CL's and club sites to see that by increasing a m/h friendly UK this would also mean an increase in campsite revenues as well.

I would hope that maybe the motor caravanners club would fill in the gap but I suspect that would be a pipe dream.

Whilst we can bombard businesses, councils and the like to promote our cause individually. To make a real difference you do need some more clout that an organization would provide.

So, anyone in a position to take on the mantle?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

stevethebeekeeper said:


> So, anyone in a position to take on the mantle?


If someone were to set up NARMO (National Association of Responsible Motorhome Owners) to act as a national campaigning organisation for the interests of motorhomers, do you think enough people would be prepared to cough up (say) £10pa to fund it's work?


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

stevethebeekeeper said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't aware either of those august bodies represented the interests of motor caravanners.
> ...


you just volunteered! 

The 2 main organisations are completely set on their own agenda, although the CCC do give a bit of a lean towards wilding by alloing their MH stopovers. I believe alot of the credit for setting up aires etc in France has been due to the FFCC looking outside the box of their usual campsites and seeing the Camping Cars were the future, rather than Caravans, and have actively promoted aires and related stopovers? There must have been lobby groups to get this going, and this is what is needed here.
It's all very well to say "we need somebody to argue the case", but what is need is somebody who will actually do that FULL TIME with councils, tourist organisations, the 2 main clubs etc etc, and unless and until that happens it will a completely hopeless task. Don't ask me who, but I would think it unlikely to be anybody from the MCC becasue they appear to be basically a rally organisation, set up to do just that?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

bognormike said:


> you just volunteered!


To pay £10 or set it up?

Is your cheque in the post?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

My mother used to live on that road and since the MH is my sole (soul) vehicle would I be prevented from parking outside my Mother's house for the night?

A second thought, they have proposed the restriction on 'Motor Caravans' which is a body type (as per section D.3 of the V5C). Does anyone know whether the Primary and Secondary Legislation permits local authorities to specify parking restrictions based on body type?

Also, what if a German-registered vehicle parked there? How do they prove it was a 'Motor Caravan'?

Geoff


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

Motorhomes are normally "special purpose vehicles of category M1", as specified in Article 2.2 of the Instruction 2001/116/EC of the European commission. 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32001L0116:en:NOT



> Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat.
> 
> 5.1. "Motor caravan" means a special purpose M category vehicle constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:
> 
> ...


DVLA do recognise category M1. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8578/motor-caravans.pdf

Local authorities are not using the correct definitions in their TROs so could be open to challenge. No Camping or No Caravans are not stating no Motor Caravans. If HGVs can be occupied overnight then they are discriminating by specifying no Motor Caravans overnight.

John


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

johnthompson said:


> Motorhomes are normally "special purpose vehicles of category M1", as specified in Article 2.2 of the Instruction 2001/116/EC of the European commission.
> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32001L0116:en:NOT
> 
> 
> ...


John

Thanks for that. I have a few questions to extend my learning

The EU Directive you quote - is it one which is automatically applicable in all countries or is it one which each country should enact in its own domestic law? If the latter has it been replicated in UK law and with what effective date?

Your second reference to the DVLA document does not seem to specifically to M1, only to Motor caravans and only to those constructed after 2012. What is applicable to pre-2012?

What is a 'TRO'?

The OP's link took us to the proposal to the Council but not to the actual By-law as passed, if it was passed. The wording of the proposal did not seem to demonstrate much specific knowledge of vehicle classification, more akin to 'NIMBY'-speak.It would be interesting to see whether the BY-law is more specific and/or accurate in its definition.

My V5C issued in 2003 and re-issued in 2009 on change of owner does not have any entry in section 'J Vehicle Category'. 'MOTOR CARAVAN' appears in Section 'D. 3 Body type'

I think we could tie up Bexhill's (and other's)Legal Department for a while :wink: :roll:

Geoff


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## piinch (May 17, 2009)

In reply to Stanners posts, the signs are only for a short section of the seafront. from the bottom of the hill near the Angling club, to just passed the toilets near the BUPA Home. I can't find any other signs along the whole seafront
Phil


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

"What is a TRO?"

Traffic Regulation Order. Usually the order is written on the back of any "no overnight parking" sign. Without it (and many dont have them) it cannot be legally enforced and they cannot move you on or give you an offical parking fine. Police will only get involved if your causing an obstruction.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

piinch said:


> In reply to Stanners posts, the signs are only for a short section of the seafront. from the bottom of the hill near the Angling club, to just passed the toilets near the BUPA Home. I can't find any other signs along the whole seafront
> Phil


So there you are it's only where the parking is right in front of homes.

Would anyone really choose to park overnight in front of someone's home when they could park further out?


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

> Which I take to be "Bexhill Sea Angling Club" from Google streetview this appears to be just the stretch of De La Warr Parade which is in front of people's homes - it doesn't seem to apply to the parade east of the Angling Club which is backed by a grassed area.
> 
> So perhaps it isn't quite as bad as it looks at first sight? Just park up further out past the Angling Club where you are not right in front of someone's home.


If you look at the map on the East Sussex link posted earlier - you will see the area marked as a no parking zone is the whole of De La Warr Parade up to the start of Galley Hill - and the Galley Hill end is precisely the area that is used by overnighters.

but that eastern end of the parade is hardly going to present a noise issue to residents as there is a large grass area between the flats and the parade.

NIMBY'ism by the looks of it


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Stanner said:


> piinch said:
> 
> 
> > In reply to Stanners posts, the signs are only for a short section of the seafront. from the bottom of the hill near the Angling club, to just passed the toilets near the BUPA Home. I can't find any other signs along the whole seafront
> ...


Yes I would want to park in front of my Mother's house if staying there so I could hear the alarm. Just because my only vehicle is a MH I do not think it should be discriminated against.

Can you imagine the uproar if they passed a By-law saying that no 'Wheelchairs/Mobility Scooters' to be parked here.

Geoff


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > piinch said:
> ...


Yours is a particular situation and not one that I was commenting on, so why don't you take it up with ESCC and ask them if they have the right to do so?

What if you drove an over 3.5tonne (commercial) van for a living? A lot of parking is restricted to under 3.5 tonnes would that be equally objectionable?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

fatbuddha said:


> > Which I take to be "Bexhill Sea Angling Club" from Google streetview this appears to be just the stretch of De La Warr Parade which is in front of people's homes - it doesn't seem to apply to the parade east of the Angling Club which is backed by a grassed area.
> >
> > So perhaps it isn't quite as bad as it looks at first sight? Just park up further out past the Angling Club where you are not right in front of someone's home.
> 
> ...





> In reply to Stanners posts, the signs are only for a short section of the seafront. from the bottom of the hill near the Angling club, to just passed the toilets near the BUPA Home. I can't find any other signs along the whole seafront
> Phil


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

nicholsong said:


> johnthompson said:
> 
> 
> > Motorhomes are normally "special purpose vehicles of category M1", as specified in Article 2.2 of the Instruction 2001/116/EC of the European commission.
> ...


Hi Geoff



> The EU Directive you quote - is it one which is automatically applicable in all countries or is it one which each country should enact in its own domestic law? If the latter has it been replicated in UK law and with what effective date?


The UK adopted this and set up the new tax categories for vehicles from it as far back as 2001

M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, up to 3500kg. Driving licence B. Vehicle excise duty PLG

M2: Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat. Driving Licence C1 Vehicle excise duty PHGV

Historically, some European Member States may have operated their own set of national requirements for Motor Caravans. However, Directive 2007/46/EC, as amended, introduced a European wide certification scheme for this kind of vehicle. Existing national arrangements will apply until the application dates outlined below. The key application dates are:

EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) application dates for Motor Caravans

Category M1 Special Purpose

New Type Optional 29th April 2009

New Type Mandatory 29th April 2011

Existing Type Mandatory 29th April 2012

Motor Caravans are a special class and should be PLG or PHGV and not the 6 new categories introduced the COs limits.

A TRO is a Traffic Regulation Order and this is required to set up parking restrictions.

The TRO should be available from the Local Authority. Some can be seen online. Try the authorities website.

John


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Stanner said:


> fatbuddha said:
> 
> 
> > > Which I take to be "Bexhill Sea Angling Club" from Google streetview this appears to be just the stretch of De La Warr Parade which is in front of people's homes - it doesn't seem to apply to the parade east of the Angling Club which is backed by a grassed area.
> ...


yep - didn't have my glasses on..... :lol:

I guess the other alternative for those wishing to overnight on Bexhill seafront are to (subject to restrictions natch) use the road on the Western side of De La Warr Pavilion, OR the small parking area at the top of Galley Hill by the Coastguard Station. but I suspect they are restricted but can't qualify that as I'm usually blasting through on my bike so not looking at notices!

the other alternative is Normans Bay and despite restriction notices there, it doesn't seem to deter the few who use it.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Stanner

As you say mine was a special case, but just as it would be if the local authority enacted the same restriction in the road where I own a property, based solely on the definition of Motor Caravan.

I have a friend who until recently lived in a Renault Master, which was not a Motor Caravan, which he slept in, in my road. Had the council put a restriction on Motor Caravans I would have been prohibited from parking outside my own house but he would have been OK.

As for restrictions on vehicles over 3.5t(many of which I did drive commercially) I believe most of these restrictions were for entering certain roads and did not differentiate for parking, and if they did were not differentiating on body type, so would apply to box vans, flat-beds, low-loaders etc. not singling out Motor Caravans.

I reserve judgement on whether my vehicle is a Motor Caravan as defined by my V5C [see above]

Geoff


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Could it be that inadvertently we are providing the legislation the Council were looking to enforce after their 'experiment'? 

Alan


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