# Muzzles



## toojo (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi,I have just been reading up on the laws for dogs in France,Italy,Spain etc and find that in some places dogs must be muzzled.I have a small pug and there is no way he could wear a muzzle because of breathing probs.Anyone know how strict these laws are,or are they more for larger dogs,could change a lot of our plans.Cheers,
John.


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## MalanCris (Apr 2, 2007)

There was a similar post on here not long back. I have never heard of dogs having to be muzzled in either France or Spain (I have been going to Spain for the last thirty odd years) and have taken my dogs with me for the last ten years.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Both in Spain and France I didnt see any dogs muzzled


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.
Never ever seen any dog local or other with a muzzle on in France or Spain we do not even have one for our dalmation, I wouldn't worry and get your self off for a bit of sunshine. :lol:


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## toojo (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks guy's,does anyone know how strict they are in Italy.Mrs Toojo is a bit uptight about this.She hates the thought of Ramble being muzzled even if we could get one small enough to fit him.Cheers for now ,
John.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Still doesn't apply to you as Italy is the same as here
It is a requirement in Italy for dogs which are classified as "naturally aggressive breeds" to be kept on a lead in public areas and to wear a muzzle. Dangerous dogs must also be covered by Third party insurance. 

Dogs included in this classification are: 

Pit bull 
American Bulldog 
Rottweiler 
Tosa Inu 
Fila Brasileiro 
Dogo Argentino 
People under 18 or anyone with a criminal record may not own a dangerous breed.

They also like them Muzzled on Public Transport


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

Ciao locovan and OP. Must contradict you. It is a legal requiremnt in Italy that ALL dogs in a public place must be on a lead no longer than 1.5 metres, and muzzled. Compliance/enforcement is another matter.
saluti,
eddied


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Hi Eddied
I googled when we were getting ready to go to Itally and i couldnt find anything that said dogs had to be muzzled only dangerous dogs. My vet hadnt anything on it either.
My friends that had been to Italy said no dogs were muzzled anywhere.

http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/animals.asp


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## toojo (Dec 4, 2008)

Dont you guys&gals go arguing now.Thanks for the info.
John.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi Sonesta has been to Italy and has far as I am aware didn't muzzle her dog.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I think its as Eddied said the rule is there but isnt forced and if you have a little dog you get away with it.
It would be a different story if you had a Pit Bull :wink:


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Hi Eddied, I hope you are ok and life is treating you well? 

I don't know if the rules have changed since we toured Italy in our motorhome 3 years ago but we took our little dog Angel with us and we didn't muzzle her. She went everywhere with us, even around the ruins of Pompei and nobody said anything to us! Angel was so sweet and friendly and wherever we went people wanted to pet our little white bundle of fun. Everyone who came across Angel made a real fuss of her; which she loved because she just loved people and lapped up all the attention that they bestowed upon her! As you probably recall, it was during our Italian trip that we lost our precious Angel in a tragic accident and sadly we had to return home to the UK without her.

I am interested to hear your reply Eddied as we now have 2 more little dogs and we are keen to return to Italy to finish the trip that was so tragically cut short and of course our 2 little dogs will be coming with us.

Love n hugs.

Sue x


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Dogs, leads, and muzzles*

 Buon giorno locovan, buon giorno sonesta.
For good order's sake and accuracy I have looked up once more all the relative legislation.
This can be found on the site www.farminachannel.com

The situation is that with
Decree of the Minister for Public Health, dated 03/03/2009, with validity for 24 months if not converted into a D.P.R. (Decree of the President of the Republic); all dogs, in public places, must be on a lead no longer than 1.5 metres; and the dog walker MUST HAVE ON HIS/HER PERSON a muzzle ready for immediate application if required by any law enforcement officer:traffic warden, local police officer, National police officer, Forest and Parks warden, Customs and Revenue police officer, Carabinieri, traffic police officer, Port Authority police officer, Coast Guard officer; and a few more besides.
The same decree also indicates that 'large or dangerous breeds' must be muzzled AT ALL TIMES.

This decree is issued on the basis of

Law No. 281 published 14/08/1991
Decree of President of the Republic no. 52 of 04/03/2003
Articles 650 and 727 of the Penal Code
Decreeof the Minister for Public Health 14/01/2008.
There is lots more :roll: , but all this is the crux of the matter as it stands today.
Tomorrow is another day :lol: 
saluti,
eddied


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Thanks Eddied,

So basically, if my understanding is correct - with small dogs like ours (providing we carry a muzzle for each one) then we should be okay to walk them in public (on a lead) without them actually having to wear one and we just need to always be in a position to muzzle our dogs if we are requested to do so? 

That seems fair enough to me and I have no objections.

** EDIT **
One thing I do remember about Italy, especially places like Pompei and that was the amount of wild dogs running around. Admittedly, I never encountered or witnessed any that appeared aggressive or threatening but what is the situation where wild dogs and muzzles/leads are concerned? 

Sue


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Buon Giorno
Grazie per la compensazione che fino turbinava 

:lol: :lol: hope that isnt swearing


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

Ciao Sonesta,
that's it. Unless somebody gets badly bitten in the meantime.
Then it would be 'all change' :lol: 
saluti,
eddied


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

locovan said:


> Buon Giorno
> Grazie per la compensazione che fino turbinava
> 
> :lol: :lol: hope that isnt swearing


MAVIS . . . Guess what???? You've just told the whole of Italy to "GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sue :wink: xxx


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## toojo (Dec 4, 2008)

I woud have a job putting one on Ramble as a pugs face is not shaped for it,and Joyce would skip Italy before she would do it.Sonesta glad to hear you have another 2 dogs,so sorry to hear about Angel.What kind do you have now?
John.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

locovan said:


> S
> People under 18 or anyone with a criminal record may not own a dangerous breed.
> 
> They also like them Muzzled on Public Transport


I think we should muzzle everyone under 18 in this country also.

Bloody great law.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Muzzling dogs law is okay but the one where all dogs not in the home must wear some kind of nappy to collect all their waste products before they hit the floor is the one that should worry you all........... You have all been warned......


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Sonesta said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > Buon Giorno
> ...


 8O have I !!! :lol: 
Just been to the vets and he said a bandage is what he uses as a muzzle as Louis is on the computer as a nervous dog. :wink:


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Muzzling dogs law is okay but the one where all dogs not in the home must wear some kind of nappy to collect all their waste products before they hit the floor is the one that should worry you all........... You have all been warned......


Is that in any party manifesto? - they'd get my vote


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

A few weeks ago there was a discussion on Jeremy Vine about a new law requiring all dogs to have Third Party insurance: my concerns were "how will it be enforced?" and "what recompense is a monetary reward when you have lost the life, or health, of a loved-one, be it human or animal?".

I would much prefer a law stating ALL dogs must be muzzled while outside the confines of their own "home" (accepting the inside of a vehicle as home) and on a short lead except on well-defined, enclosed areas of land (available for exercise). That is easy to police and prevents "accidents". I guess from the previous posts on this thread that it would not meet with universal approval!

Gordon
(Jack Russel, Irish Setter, Gordon Setter owner in the past)


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I thought all ideas of the new law had been dropped.
We have discussed it on here and found that we all had third party Insurance many of us on our house hold Insurance which Ray checked with our Insurance Company.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

tonyt said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Muzzling dogs law is okay but the one where all dogs not in the home must wear some kind of nappy to collect all their waste products before they hit the floor is the one that should worry you all........... You have all been warned......
> ...


I thought that was a law :lol: :lol:


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

toojo said:


> I woud have a job putting one on Ramble as a pugs face is not shaped for it,and Joyce would skip Italy before she would do it.Sonesta glad to hear you have another 2 dogs,so sorry to hear about Angel.What kind do you have now?
> John.


Hi John,

Our 2 little dogs are the same breed as what our previous dog Angel was and that is a Bolognese! Yes, I know this normally applies to an Italian pasta dish but the breed originates from Bologna in Italy - so hence the name Bolognese!

Losing Angel was very traumatic John as she was only 18 months old and name her suited her nature perfectly! Both myself and my husband were devastated by her unexpected death and even now; 3 years on we still find it hard to talk about and Angel is often spoken about in our household!

As for having to muzzle your Pug, surely nobody would expect anyone to muzzle a well behaved dog if it were to cause them any physical discomfort??? I hope the new laws make allowances for such cases?

I appreciate that one can never be too sure with any dog and even the most placid dog can turn nasty if it suddenly feels threatened but personally, I think most owners know their own dogs and they know whether their dog is likely to turn aggressive when faced by unwelcome strangers! However, let's face it - you could even say the same thing about many human beings too and we don't go around restraining drunken youths, hell bent on getting completely blathered on a Saturday night out do we? :wink: How many people have a personality change due to the effects of alchohol and then whilst drunk out of their skulls, they go on to reek utter havoc and mayhem on property, people and for our overworked emergency services? 80

All the best.

Sue


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The Government is currently consulting on the issues of dangerous dogs.

There is a very comprehensive article this month in Dogs Today and I advise every dog owner to read it and be aware of the thinking behind the legislation.

Defra are charged with co-ordinating the consultation and it is open the public. Go to www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/dangerous-dogs and click on the online questionaire if you would like to have your say.

Before you do you need to read the proposals as some of the questions are specific to them.

My proposal is this: -

*Microchip all puppies before sale.
Register the breeder and new owner with Defra.
If the dog bites anyone the breeder is held responsible.
If the dog needs rehoming the breeder has to take it back.*

The result would be that all bad breeders would give up/go out of business pretty quickly. 
All the good breeders would vet new owners for their puppies very very carefully. Only owners willing to socialise and train the dog properly would be chosen to buy one.

A by product of such legislation would be that the numbers of dogs for sale would drop dramatically and the dog homes would empty out too 

If you think the above is a good idea then incorporate it into your anwers in the questionaire. 
Part of the thinking is that there may be more breeds of dogs added to the list of Dangerous Dogs and so we must be vigilant if we don't want to be muzzling our dogs.


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Translations*

:lol: Buo giorno locovan, a good try; but sorry can't make any sense of it? Literally means 'thanks for the compensation that was whirling around'.
Anyway, doesn't matter. And keep that muzzle handy - I've seen nasty little dachshunds and corgis that can bite. :roll: 
saluti,
eddied


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: Translations*



eddied said:


> :lol: Buo giorno locovan, a good try; but sorry can't make any sense of it? Literally means 'thanks for the compensation that was whirling around'.
> Anyway, doesn't matter. And keep that muzzle handy - I've seen nasty little dachshunds and corgis that can bite. :roll:
> saluti,
> eddied


Justgoogled and it says :lol: Good Day
Thanks for clearing that up swirled
I meant thanks for clearing that up :wink:

Thats the trouble the little dogs can be the worse its not always large Alsations is it? Jack Russells love postmans ankles :lol: :lol: well mine always have.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

I think carrying a muzzle is a great idea and I definitely can see the logic behind such a rule but when and who would decide when and where we should put one on our dog or dogs? I don't quite understand how this rule or is it a bye law, would be implemented and how it could reduce the possibility of dog attacks? If a normally well behaved and gentle dog suddenly turns aggressive, how are we to know when and what will cause this to happen and so, unless ALL dogs wear muzzles at ALL times when outside the home, then I can't see the muzzle idea having much effect!

I do not have access to any statistics or anything like that - but it would appear from newspaper and tv reports etc., that an awful lot of dog attacks, especially cases where small children have been attacked or tragically killed, have happened within the home by a family pet who has suddenly, for no apparant reason, turned savage. Surely this muzzling law would have little, if any effect on such tragic incidents and it's these cases which most of us immediately think of when we picture a dangerous dog!

I think this muzzling law only scratches the tip of the iceberg and a lot more thought needs to go into all of this if we wish to reduce the amount of horrific attacks from dangerous dogs and why and how these dogs are behaving so aggressively is probably the main problem in all of this. 

I have 2 little dogs myself and I do not consider either to be in any way a dangerous animal but Candy has a different temperament to Buddy and when approached by strangers or in the company of new people, she is defensive, nervous and growly and if anyone comes too close, she will growl at them to let them know to keep their distance! A couple of times she has been known to snap at a hand that she has seen coming her way from a stranger and she really doesn't seem happy to have her space invaded by folk she has not met before. After a while of being in their company she will settle down and once she has met a person a few times, she soon relaxes whenever they revisit! However, due to her nervous nature, I would not allow a small child to get too close just in case! Buddy on the other hand, could be swung around like a rag doll and he would just love the attention and if a child was a tad too rough, then a quick yelp from Buddy would be the most startling thing he would do but again, he is a dog and you can never, ever be too sure!

Sue


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