# Daytime driving lights



## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Perhaps I have missed a thread on this subject (I did look) but does anyone know what future legislation is being planned for using daytime driving lights?
Will there be, or are there led's being produced to replace existing lights?
I had a look for my Peugeot 2002 model but nothing seems to be available, yet.

Alan


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

you ll get led s if you want them but pointless considering the an alternator will cope just fine as it is....

I believe it good practice to drive on side lights having got used to the idea abroad and have done so many years....but another nail in the coffin for motorcyclists as the more that take it up the less distinguishable they become....


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## urbanracer (Aug 22, 2007)

You can buy daydriving lights as an extra from Halfords ebay etc,I have read they will be standard OE fitment on small commercials from August 2012.
They will be no retrospective law to say you have to fit to older vehicles.


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

The motorcycle frasternity are somewhat miffed at the introduction of daylight running light for all vehicles.
Always-on headlights have been a legal requirement for about 10 years on motorcycles, the object being to make them stand out from the other traffic and reduce the number of side-swipes. Daylight running lights on all vehicles will mean motorcycles will blend back in with the other traffic.
I predict an increase in motorcyc;le accidents as a result.


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

*daytime driving lights*

Spatz1 mentioned driving on side lights during the day as good practice. I assume from this that you are referring to parking lights.
As far as I am aware from memory (i have not researched this), it is illegal in the u.k. to drive on parking lights.

The reason that I say this is that many years ago a motorist was stopped and prosecuted for doing this (using parking lights during the day) while waiting at traffic lights. The local magistrates found him not guilty, the police appealed and won. As I understood it at the time this then became a point of law.

It is my belief that if you consider it necessary to use lights for any reason then you must use dipped headlights in the u.k. day or night.

I have no specialist knowledge on the subject and stand to be corrected.

Les.


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## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

Many years ago I had a Ford Granada that had dimdip headlights so that you could leave them on but they were not as bright as ordinary dipped headlights but brighter than side lights. Surely this technology hasn't been lost. Have you ever noticed just how bright and dazzling ordinary dipped headlights are when a vehicle is stationary. I often turn mine off if I have to stop to let other vehicles pass in narrow lanes at night to avoid dazzling them and they can see where they are going much easier.


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: daytime driving lights*



jonesy1 said:


> Spatz1 mentioned driving on side lights during the day as good practice. I assume from this that you are referring to parking lights.
> As far as I am aware from memory (i have not researched this), it is illegal in the u.k. to drive on parking lights.
> 
> Les.


Think volvo ... right back over many years they ve integrated sidelights into the ignition.....

As for the motorcyclists, they should curb there wheeling in and out of cars on country roads it ll save more "no other vehicle involved" self inflicted deaths than the amount lights on all the time will ever cause :wink:


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*day lights*

Hi there is another thread about lights which led to a firm called ledcom, i got two bumper lights for my 2005 fiat about £60 got them the next day look grate / recommend this firm to anybody


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

*daytime driving lights*

Yes the Volvo lights caused a problem with regards complying to u.k. law. Have they now not overcome this by only using headlights when the ignition is turned on?

Les.


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

*daytime driving lights*

Working on the principle of when all else fails, read the instructions, i have dug out a 2009 copy of the highway code.

Lighting requirements

113. You MUST
ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise.

use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30mph unless otherwise specified.

Use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced. (see rule226)

Apart from the last sentence it has little to do with answering the original post. Sorry. It has made me aware that in the circumstances stated you can drive on sidelights.

Les.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

You can drive during daylight hours displaying whatever lights (parking or dipped head) you wish as long as they dont cause dazzle. IT is NOT an offence to drive on side or parking lights.

My view is that if you feel you need lights on then the only sensible option is dipped headlights, parking (side) lights are exactly that, parking lights !!!!

The lights on your old Granada were known as "Dim dip" and they were exactly that. The feed was through a resisitor so the voltage (and therefore the brightness) was reduced.When switched fully on they were full brightness. The system was short lived (because I THINK it contravened some fancy EU regulation!!)

A little known fact is that if you are driving in ANY speed limit above 30MPH it is a legal requirement to display dipped (at least) headlights!!!! Even if the road has full street lighting. Strange but true. How many cars do you see on lit motorways showing only parking lights???


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I read somewhere that if every car in America drove on dipped headlights, the amount of extra fuel used would be.... I am afraid boredom and something akin to a nap crept in so I failed to retain the statistics, but rest assured it would have been enough to get us out of our present financial straits.

Alan


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Bill_H, you are correct, it has been around 10 years now for motorcyclists, it is a pity then that fewer and fewer are not aware of this.maybe another tv commercial is needed.I nearly had one last week, he was not happy when I said that he was braking the law.

cabby


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Motorcycles*



Bill_H said:


> The motorcycle frasternity are somewhat miffed at the introduction of daylight running light for all vehicles.
> Always-on headlights have been a legal requirement for about 10 years on motorcycles, the object being to make them stand out from the other traffic and reduce the number of side-swipes. Daylight running lights on all vehicles will mean motorcycles will blend back in with the other traffic.
> I predict an increase in motorcyc;le accidents as a result.


If we all adopted the idea of using headlights when.......

In heavy rain,
Fog,
Dusk,
Low sun behind us.

As examples±!

Maybe there would be no need for daylight running lights.

But the problem is. Far too many drivers are more concerned with making sure their makeup is good, shaving, heating their feet rather than their windscreens, facebooking, texting, phone conferences, sat navs and lots of other distractions. Rather than concentrating on driving.

But more important. All drivers and riders should be more visible to each other and pedestrians.

I am for the Scandinavian rule of all cars with a running engine and with the possibility of being on motion should always have some kind of lights on. Be they headlamps or the now soon to be EU build law DRL's.

TM


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: day lights*



kenny said:


> Hi there is another thread about lights which led to a firm called ledcom, i got two bumper lights for my 2005 fiat about £60 got them the next day look grate / recommend this firm to anybody


www.ledcom.co.uk

I do like the look of them, but unfortunately they are not for pre 2007 models, according to their advertising.

Regards,

Jock.


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Driving lights*

 Just a reminder from Italy; that if visiting here dipped headlights switched on are a legal requirement on all motorways/designated highways (main roads) 24/7.

saluti,
eddied


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

cabby said:


> Bill_H, you are correct, it has been around 10 years now for motorcyclists, it is a pity then that fewer and fewer are not aware of this.maybe another tv commercial is needed.I nearly had one last week, he was not happy when I said that he was braking the law.
> 
> cabby


I don't think the legislation is retrospective, only motorcycles made after around 2002 are required to have always-on headlights.
There is a 'daylight only' mot for motorcycles that don't have any running lights at all.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

There is quite a long list of countries that do require driving lights: Italy as already mentioned, Sweden, Hungary & Canada come to mind.
There are also countries where using no lights at night are not uncommon, including India and several other Asian countries.

Alan


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

This is something I found strange when I bought my 2006 KTM Superduke,that I have to switch on the headlight as previously owned riceburners there was no switch as the lights came on when started.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

rosalan said:


> I read somewhere that if every car in America drove on dipped headlights, the amount of extra fuel used would be.... I am afraid boredom and something akin to a nap crept in so I failed to retain the statistics, but rest assured it would have been enough to get us out of our present financial straits. Alan


Back in the 'good old days' when we had power strikes throughout the country - it was suggested that you only drive on dipped headlights - that way it would save power for essential use . . . :roll:


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I commented on this subject a couple of years ago.
All the same answers have come up.

We are having common sense removed from our brain, with the you will comply brigade.

As I posted in the last thread on this subject, motorcyclists will become "invisible", some daytime driving lights are brighter in daylight than headlights. Wearing a compulsory hi vis jacket will not help either.

All motorists should at least take the motorcycle CBT before motorbike bashing and see how discourteous other motorists can be when protected by a thin shell of steel.

Dave p


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

Surely the answer is that DTR lights will distinguish cars from m/cycles and as they are led's will also not use much juice. For my money it will also stop the idiots driving in low visibility on sidelights. OK I know they can see where they are going, but how are we supposed to see them!!

That's it, rant over, been waiting to do that for ages!

Gary


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*lights*

hi if you go to France it is law you need lights on at all time when driving and now in Spain thats the reason i have fitted led lights kenny


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

*Re: lights*



kenny said:


> hi if you go to France it is law you need lights on at all time when driving and now in Spain thats the reason i have fitted led lights kenny[/
> 
> Hi Kenny, I thought headlights were required in poor visibilty only, not at all times, has there been a change that you know of?


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

*Re: lights*



kenny said:


> hi if you go to France it is law you need lights on at all time when driving and now in Spain thats the reason i have fitted led lights kenny


In bad weather you must use lights and should never drive on side-lights but I do not think it is the law in France, yet, to use dipped headlights during the day.
Perhaps some French resident could clarify this.

Alan


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*lights*

Hi iandsm, you are correct about bad weather, other times a law was brought in about 3-4 years ago that you must travel with lights on ,the French did not agree so most ignore the law, last year we met more than the previous years who had been stopped and warned, so for £60 for 2 led lights is better than 12 lights being on kenny


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## tuscancouple (Jan 29, 2007)

This link is for the AA pdf on compuslsory equipment, including driving lights for many European countries. It recommends driving lights for France, however does not state that they are compulsory:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/compulsory_equipment.pdf

A couple of cavets, it is dated Jan 2011 as I couldn't find a later one and it does not include breathalyser for France.

Cheers

Mick


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*lights*

Hi forgot to say the led lights i got are like spot lamps they also go dimer when you have any other lights on, same has what you see on new cars, i think some one on the forums previously said the EU was making it compulsory to have lights on when driving, that is why new cars have them on kenny


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## thevines (Aug 6, 2008)

Good day all!

Our new 2012 (61 reg) Euro 5 Chausson arrived with the lights off/all lights on control (ie no side light control) and no DRL fitted (thought the manufacturer should have fitted them by now according to the new regs?!?). I've just ordered these. Look ideal and appear easy to self fit.

LEDCOM

thevines


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

DRL are a legal requirement on all new MODELS of vehicles. (not necessarily all newly registered ones)

So all current models of vehicles (say a Ford Mondeo) do NOT have to have them even if registered after the inception date (which I THINK was mid February this year)

However if a manufacturer brings out an ALL NEW model such as a Ford "Whoompah Doompah" (i.e not a face lifted current one) then they must have DRL fitted.

So if you go and buy a new MH toady (or next month) thats based on a CURRENT base vehicle (Fiat Ducato?) there is no LEGAL requirement for that vehicle to have DLR's fitted. If Fiat bring out a "New" base vehicle then DRL WILL be present.

This way the manufacturers do not have to go to the (considerable) expense of re-designing and making up new wiring looms/fitting new lights etc to vehicles that are in the middle of a production run. They will however have to do so for any NEW maodel they produce from now on

Many manufacturers (Audi, Citroen, Mercedes for example) got themselves "ahead of the game" and started fitting them a while ago, even though, at that time, there was no requirement to do so !

Hopefully that clarifies things and explains why some "new" cars have them and some dont!!


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Two things:

1. The LED DRLs lonked on this thread go where our X250 has fog lights. I'd rather have the foglights.

2. If you leve you headlight switch on on our X250 they act like the lights on a Volvo, ie they go on and off with the ignition.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

trevd01 said:


> Clipped.......2. If you leve you headlight switch on on our X250 they act like the lights on a Volvo, ie they go on and off with the ignition.


They do also on our 99 Ducato model, (import) which is handy. I almost always leave the light switch in the "sidelight" position these days.

Regards,

Jock.


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

trevd01 said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. The LED DRLs lonked on this thread go where our X250 has fog lights. I'd rather have the foglights.
> 
> 2. If you leve you headlight switch on on our X250 they act like the lights on a Volvo, ie they go on and off with the ignition.


Memo to self: When posting from a Windows XP pc, check the spelling. I'm just too used to OS X and iOS devices (i.e. Apple) correcting my spelling on the fly


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## thevines (Aug 6, 2008)

....I have dyslexic fingers, at least that's my excuse!

I didn't realise it had to be a completely new model before the lights are fitted. They still did half the job by taking away the side lights position on the control lever.

Also our MH didn't come with fog lights, so I think fitting DRL is a good compromise. I had a Volvo 240 estate in the '80s and thought its DRLs were a progressive step.

thevines


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Thevines

You are certainly at liberty to fit DLR's if you wish to any vehicle you wish. 

Its just NEW models that require them to be fitted by law. 

Personally I think they are an excellent idea. I always use dipped headlights at all times in all vehicles. 

ANYTHING that makes you more visible to other road users can only be a good thing.

I do NOT subscribe to the argument that their use will detract from motorcycle conspicuity either.

I used to ride traffic patrol motorcycles as well as cars so speak from a position of considerable practical experience, having done many 10,000's of miles on two as well as 4 wheels.


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## thevines (Aug 6, 2008)

Mrplodd,

I agree with you whole heartedly. I have dipped headlights on when the TOAD is behind us, and at other times when conditions need it (normally long before most other road users bother to put their lights on)......want to make sure I'm well seen, TOAD included!

Thanks!


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

I was always a big fan of the "dim dip" facility when it came about, and I never did understand why it was dropped.

I too find some of the latest daytime driving "bright white" LED lighting (Mercs & Audis), to be somewhat too bright, and a bit OTT.

Regards,

Jock.


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## dipper17 (Jul 30, 2011)

I put dipped headlights on when every I think it is necessary. I usually check what the law is in the country I am visiting just in case there are any differences. Never been pulled up in any country yet about lights. 

What I do think should be stopped is those people who use front fog lights AS WELL AS headlights in normal conditions at night time. It may look cool but can dazzle oncoming cars.

Cheers


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