# Meditation



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi

Can anyone recommend any books that they have used and have had success with regarding meditation?

I am currently undergoing acupuncture for insomnia (I've had insomnia for around 10 years) and my chap thinks that perhaps learning some meditation techniques to help me clear my mind at night/sleep time would help.

TIA

Graham:smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

As a long term insomniac I fully sympathise with you.


I have tried, in the past, a website called Headspace. They are currently offering a free trial. I think it was their last free trial that I signed up for. I found it quite difficult. Mostly, in my case I think, because of the physical difficulty of finding a quiet space to practice. Our bedrooms are quite cool and you need a warm quiet place to practice. This means the front room where the wood burner is located. Of course this is never quiet for long even though it is just me and Mr patp and the dog!


I used to practice when I got up in the early hours when I could not sleep but it never sent me to sleep.


Eventually I consulted my GP and he is helping me to deal with it. I suffer, too, from anxiety and he thinks the insomnia makes that worse. He is treating both. First I was referred for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) which I have found very helpful. In particular writing worries down. I had heard of this but thought it too trivial to try. It really has helped however. 
I also had sleeping tablets combined with anti anxiety medication. The side effects of the anti anxiety medication were not nice so I have changed them a couple of times and have now weaned myself off them. I still use the sleeping tablets though only when I wake up, not when I go to bed. I have found this to be the most effective for me.


I assume you have investigated sleep hygiene where you have quiet time before bed, no screens in the bedroom, get up after 20 minutes of wakefulness etc?


Mr patp sleeps for 8-9 hours per night and also has a nap after lunch! It is so frustrating to be pacing the house in the early hours when everyone else is in the land of nod.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks for this Patp - much appreciated.

I have been on sleeping pills for a number of years but they aren't working well now. I have tried hypnotherapy but they couldn't put me 'under'. 

I'm just exploring alternatives so I'll research some of the things you mention.

Cheers again

Graham


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Silly question maybe, sorry, have you tried the usual, book before bedtime, no TV or monitor gazing. A cup of warm milk or similar with a slice of bread and butter with jam.. the small speaker under the pillow that plays those strange sounds. 
some people try them for a couple of nights and say they don't work, but you need at least a week to get the brain rethinking.

good luck and hope you succeed 


cabby

Rather than push for meditation, try the thought process of placing yourself in a comfy chair/recliner and in a favourite spot, say a beach and you look at the sea and the waves rolling in and listen to the sound, the crash of the crest of the wave as it falls, the slight breeze as it drifts the sound across the perfect sand.

That sort of thing, it is a type of med.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks Cabby

All good stuff....

I cant do the last suggestion as this is part of the problem: my mind races through/around loads of different subjects: I cant switch off. Its mostly random stuff tbh. I can start to think of watching the sea et al however it lasts for about 3 seconds before I'm off again. :grin2:

That is why I need to practice and get some way of trying to start educating my mind.

Still...on the plus side if I cant sort this out its a great excuse for retiring even earlier >

Graham :smile2:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Unfortunately I cam empathise.It is quite frightening what pops into your mind at times.It sounds as if you need the speaker system with soothing sounds that can distract the mind from darting all over the place.

cabby


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

In the 80's I was setting up a new business which involved considerable stress. Obviously I needed good sleeps to face the next day and wasn't getting them. At the time Ayurvedic classes were being held locally so I thought I would give them a try, even though I was sceptical about them being a 'snake oil' treatment. Well I was pleasantly surprised, I was able to take myself into a meditative state which helped clear the stress and tension very well. 

The following web site talks about help with sleeping, I don't know whether there are any courses available where you live but it might be worth investigating.

Mike


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Have you tried self-relaxation. 
It's quite easy and occupies your mind as well.http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...nt/in-depth/relaxation-technique/art-20045368


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

javea said:


> The following web site talks about help with sleeping...


Ta
Have you got the link Mike?

Graham:smile2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GMJ said:


> Ta
> Have you got the link Mike?
> 
> Graham:smile2:


If you find a cure Graham be sure to let us know. I have suffered sleep problams for 40 years, tried most everything, in the end just resigned myself to the fact I´m impossible. :frown2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I will :grin2:

I think when I retire I will definitely de-stress however I've got 18 months to go so would like to sort it now

Graham :smile2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GMJ said:


> I will :grin2:
> 
> I think when I retire I will definitely de-stress however I've got 18 months to go so would like to sort it now
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Don´t count on it Graham, I had nothing to be stressed about when my problem started, happy marriage, no money worries etc.etc. 
The only stressful time was having this place built, now I am happy, contented & stressless, nothing has changed my sleep pattern.


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## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

Mostly I dont have a lot of stress, but I just cant shut my mind off. I can feel drowsy in front of the tv (I dont nod off) but as soon as my head hits the pillow, the lights come on and anything and everything floats round in my mind, Even odd trivial things such as ' how do chinese eat gravy with chop sticks' ?!! After an hour I get up, make a cup of decaff tea and a sandwich and read until I feel sleepy 1 - 2hrs. I have got used to having little sleep but it can be very draining.

Tried herbal pills, Dr's pills - ours wont prescribe sleeping pills, meditation & tapes, radio, music, self help books etc etc but after a couple of minutes or so, I'm off on another thought process.......


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Pollydoodle said:


> ...but after a couple of minutes or so, I'm off on another thought process.......


That sounds familiar...

Graham :smile2:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

how do chinese eat gravy with chop sticks' 

That's easy. They have special chopsticks with sponges on the end. Then it's just a case of dip and suck.


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## Gordonm (Dec 4, 2014)

Hmmm - always tough trying to get the thousand monkeys to give you some peace!
Unfortunately my suggestion isn't cheap, but in my biased opinion it is by far the easiest and least painful, and that is Transcendental Meditation (TM). It got a good friend and myself out of a very deep hole, with the added benefit of being able to cope with stress effectively and actually being able to sleep properly for the first time in goodness knows how long.
I have been practising it for about 38 years now and from the outset it was very easy and effective - there is an initiation ceremony involving incense and chanting in Sanskrit (where you have to keep a straight face - but it is very effective) and you are given a mantra to repeat silently - and it's this that takes you very rapidly into a meditative state making it much easier to evade the mischievous monkeys!
Practice is 20mins twice a day - but I found once a day sufficient and kept me still very much in touch with 'reality'. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy to start to meditate at night and then switch to deep sleep when you're ready - easy to control with your increased awareness.
I know that if you look on line you can find out the mantra and do it yourself, but unfortunately it won't work unless you've had the ceremony.
Google TM and contact your local teacher to discuss.
(other than practising the technique, I don't have any other connection with the organisation - I looked into becoming a teacher a while ago, but it's really expensive so I did Reiki instead!)


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I find a bottle of 'red' works really well.


tony


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> I find a bottle of 'red' works really well.
> 
> tony


How many points is that a week Tony?:grin2:

And you say Im an ambulance chaser!>


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Gordonm said:


> Hmmm - always tough trying to get the thousand monkeys to give you some peace!
> Unfortunately my suggestion isn't cheap, but in my biased opinion it is by far the easiest and least painful, and that is Transcendental Meditation (TM). It got a good friend and myself out of a very deep hole, with the added benefit of being able to cope with stress effectively and actually being able to sleep properly for the first time in goodness knows how long.
> I have been practising it for about 38 years now and from the outset it was very easy and effective - there is an initiation ceremony involving incense and chanting in Sanskrit (where you have to keep a straight face - but it is very effective) and you are given a mantra to repeat silently - and it's this that takes you very rapidly into a meditative state making it much easier to evade the mischievous monkeys!
> Practice is 20mins twice a day - but I found once a day sufficient and kept me still very much in touch with 'reality'. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy to start to meditate at night and then switch to deep sleep when you're ready - easy to control with your increased awareness.
> ...


Never trust a person who wear a hat like that in public, okay low blow, I looked into TM a while back, but it seemed a lot of nonsense to me.

However I do find a gentle meditation sometimes helps me get back to sleep after a loo visit in the early hours.

We *visited here* a couple of years ago and there were doing a free session, we like to visit whenever we pass so thought why not delve a little deeper.

I very rarely have a problem dropping off, but my bladder wakes me up some times 2 or 3 times a night, not fun, we are having a lot of worries right now within the family, and my mind flits to and between them once I've woken up, so I just do a simple breathing exercise, concentrating on the cool air coming in and warm air exhaled, thoughts still intrude sometimes so I concentrate harder, and most often I will drift off, it's simple and effective, I've mentioned it to friends and they seem to find it works.

Diet can keep you awake as well as stress, and there is always those who just don't need so much sleep.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

GMJ said:


> Ta
> Have you got the link Mike?
> 
> Graham:smile2:


Apologies Graham, only just seen your request. The following might be helpful and the post about TM very accurately describes the process I went through - sounds dubious but it did work for me.

http://www.chopra.com/ccl/5-tips-to-end-insomnia-and-get-restful-sleep

Mike


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Would I be unfair if I suggested that most of this is mumbo jumbo rubbish and totally unsuitable for our lifestyle. Although I will accept that it works for many who can get into that frame of mind.

cabby

Only asking.:frown2:00


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

cabby said:


> Would I be unfair if I suggested that most of this is mumbo jumbo rubbish and totally unsuitable for our lifestyle.


Oh dear :argue:



cabby said:


> Although I will accept that it works for many who can get into that frame of mind.


That just about sums it up really. The key is the frame of mind thing...

Graham:smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I try to be open minded about this spooky stuff, as too many people do seem to get something from it like hypnosis, it didn't work on me, but does on others.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Same here Kev tbh...

I couldn't be put under when I went for hypnosis however back in the 1980's when I went to see a reflexologist he fixed up my right knee when the Dr's wanted to give me pain killers and told me to stop playing rugby for 3 months. They would then operate if it didn't get better :surprise:

An hour with this reflexologist chap stopped any trouble I had and it never reoccurred ever again. I didn't know what reflexology was tbh...I thought he was just a physio. Years later I realised it was homeopathic.

Graham :smile2:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Perhaps I could have phrased it differently.:frown2: But it is a mind frame situation.It is like slimming, diets do not work, it is a life style change needed.

But thanks for mentioning reflexology I will get the Wife to try that after the Acupuncture treatment course she is on. It worked for her many years ago.


cabby


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Don't let it all get out of hand!


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm 2 sessions of acupuncture in with no discernible difference :frown2:
The chap did say it had to build up though, like a course of treatment so I'll carry on for another 3 weeks.

I have halved my sleeping tablet dose on his instructions as well (which might not be helping) and have ordered a copy of Ruby Wax' book Sane New World. In it she outlines some mindfulness techniques which may be of help...

Apparently her reading is very "accessible" plus she has a Masters from Oxford Uni in this kind of stuff (who's have thought?!)

I have also briefed my Head of Dept as tbh I cant go on like this :frown2:

Graham :serious:


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Forget all the red wine mumbo jumbo... Two glasses of whisky works a treat, three glasses is better!...

ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Being unable to sleep is intolerable, the body struggles to heal itself, it affects just about every system we have, I went to the optician yesterday and it also affect the eyes.

Some people do need less than 8 hours, some need far more, I can function just about on 4-5, but I'm drowsy all day, taking drugs which make you drowsy is no help either, I go off okay, then wake up for now reason and some (most) nights, that's it.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I agree Kev...its getting too much now hence I am spurring myself into action about it

Graham :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Do keep us posted on the acupuncture.


My insomnia is caused, I think, by anxiety. Before being prescribed sleeping tablets I used to go off to sleep fine but wake in the early hours unable to sleep. Nothing I have tried has helped.
The sleeping tablets I was given, though they worked at first, have made things worse by making me dependent on something to help me drop off. I used to fall asleep, exhausted, as my head hit the pillow. The doctor has now withdrawn those sleeping tablets and left me with some ineffective ones 


Meditation and mindfulness are supposed to be very effective for anxiety related things but I struggle to stop multi tasking while I am meditating! Writing worries down is another effective strategy that has worked in the past. It seems stupid to be doing it but it does actually work.


As has been said above insomnia affects your whole life and is unfathomable to those that sleep well.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Also let us know what you think of Ruby Wax's book please?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

As mentioned elsewhere I do try the simple breathing in and out type of meditation, my problem is compounded by the old bladder problem, even if I only go once in the night, I have to be at least partially awake, then random thoughts come tumbling in, if it was just one I could probably cope and get off again, but it's like being under a waterfall and there are dozens of miscellaneous things vying for space so I can't get to grips with any of them.

Last night was particular bad, Liz gets a bit giddy sometimes, and while it's nice and good to watch, last night served to make me tense while I was going for my last pee, to the point where I produced nothing, for the next two hours I was going too and fro several times until the urge finally stopped and I was allowed to get a couple of hours, I have to be up by 5:50, so if I wake around 4am, that's it, I'm awake until bedtime at night, it also makes me grumpy, I tend to snap if annoyed, my attention span is very limited, it can take me ages to post a simple message on here sometimes, but fortunately I am a morning person, so I get all my stuff done before most people are about, and I just get through the day the best I can, until Liz gets home tired but wanting to talk, asks me about my day etc, what day I have no clue what I did all day.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks for sharing folks. Neither a "Like" nor a "Thanks" button seem appropriate but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Maybe we need a "sympathise" or "empathise" button :grin2:

I am at the stage now where if these things don't work I will need to go back to the quack and will need some time off. However if I cant sort it then I don't know what I'll do. :frown2:

Graham :frown2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GMJ said:


> I am at the stage now where if these things don't work I will need to go back to the quack and will need some time off. However if I cant sort it then* I don't know what I'll do. :frown2:*
> Graham :frown2:


You´ll do what thousands of other do Graham, me included, accept you are not special, learn not to make it top of your agenda (I *know* its *not* but its pretty high at the moment). I know they say a problem shared is a problem halved, but there are times when it does not help to continue sharing that problem because *then* its does keep it high on the agenda. 
Do you have a hobby (other than the MH?)
I´m a hopeless case :laugh: 
Jan


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Thanks for sharing folks. Neither a "Like" nor a "Thanks" button seem appropriate but I'm sure you know what I mean.
> 
> Graham :frown2:


You said thanks anyway G, so use the button mate, go on you know you want to.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> You said thanks anyway G, so use the button mate, go on you know you want to.


Oh go on then.....:grin2:

Graham:smile2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

JanHank said:


> Do you have a hobby (other than the MH?)


Bits'n'bobs really...

Nothing major: I read a newspaper every day; read books; DIY; gardening; planning holidays; keeping fit; drinking beer...that kind of thing :smile2:

Graham:smile2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GMJ said:


> Bits'n'bobs really...
> 
> Nothing major: I read a newspaper every day; read books; DIY; gardening; planning holidays; keeping fit; drinking beer...that kind of thing :smile2:
> 
> Graham:smile2:


Maybe you should start a more calming hobby like knitting or crochet, its not all knit one pearl one :grin2: occupies the brain as well as the hands, then you could sell what you´ve made and give the money to Barry´s donkey charity:grin2:>


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Update time

The acupuncture didn't work :frown2:

I stuck at it for 6 weeks or so but the chap and I both agreed that it wasn't working so best not to keep chucking money at it.

The Ruby Wax book was a good read but didn't help either :frown2:

Sooo I spoke to the quack and he has signed me off for 2 weeks just so I can try and make some changes and get some rest. Therefore I am:-

- Off caffeinated coffee as of today...SO WATCH WHAT YOU SAY AS IM ANGRY...nah only joking.:grin2: I haven't noticed a difference and tbh I didn't drink coffee after 3.00pm anyway but I'll try cutting it out totally.

- Reading for 30 mins prior to lights out in an attempt to make me sleepy. I have tried the 'getting up and reading after 20 mins of lying there' but that didn't work.

- Getting some fresh air every day and exercising every day also. I tend to exercise c.4 times per week anyway so not a biggie this one. I did some gardening today which was really nice :smile2:

- Learning/using some mindfulness techniques that focus on posture and breathing and that will also enable me to guide my thoughts back to focus on breathing.

If that doesn't work then I will ask the Doc to refer me to a sleep clinic. We don't have one near us AFAIK, that specialises in insomnia.

If I can sort myself out and then carry this on when I get back to work then great. If I can sort myself out and work starts the whole issue over again, then I will have an answer also.

Graham :smile2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Read with interest Graham.

Jan


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Well done Graham - You will get there

I have no problem NOW getting to sleep and staying there (loo visits excepted of course) but when I was working in a responsible role, I used to really struggle to get off and then dreamed about work issues such that I had a problem the next day differentiating between dreams and actuality

As in - did that happen or did I dream it?

One technique I have used successfully is to imagine losing the feeling in toes, then ankles, then legs etc etc until you are so relaxed you are asleep

Obviously "jiffling about" stops this working so if you have a restless partner it may work better in a separate room

Another thing I used to do when work thoughts were intruding was to deliberately think about a particularly pleasant (non work) time or experience (no - not that...)

I used to remember rides on the bike I had enjoyed and try to think them through from start to finish - remembering the landmarks and the banter with the guys - that sort of thing

I found it relaxed me and I could get off without real world worries crowding my mind

Now I'm retired, I subscribe to the "bottle of red" school of relaxation!!

Cheers

Dave


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Last night was particular bad, Liz gets a bit giddy sometimes, and while it's nice and good to watch, last night served to make me tense


Kev - I'm intrigued to know more about this "giddy" thing - especially it being "good to watch"

Come on - spill the beans

Cheers

Dave


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

HarleyDave said:


> Well done Graham - You will get there
> 
> I have no problem NOW getting to sleep and staying there (loo visits excepted of course) but when I was working in a responsible role, I used to really struggle to get off and then dreamed about work issues such that I had a problem the next day differentiating between dreams and actuality
> 
> ...


A few glasses of the amber nectar and plugging my ipod in my ears when going to bed, sends me to sleep sometimes before the first song has ended.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

HarleyDave said:


> Kev - I'm intrigued to know more about this "giddy" thing - especially it being "good to watch"
> 
> Come on - spill the beans
> 
> ...


Calm down no beans to spill Dave, she just goes into big kid mode which is scary on a ** year old woman, demented doesn't cover it though   D


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm not a great sleeper either and with a responsible job and some quite serious family issues going on I think stress is probably a part of the problem but I'm almost 10 years from retirement and the family issues arent going to resolve quickly either.

Getting off to sleep isnt usually an issue, I read for about 20 minutes then turn the light off and I'm gone but I'll usually wake 2-4 hours later and the crazy random thoughts kick in, sometimes it's something really trivial but I'll repeat it in my head over and over again, grrr.

I seem to get by without much sleep though so I stopped stressing about it, if I wake up and I'm really restless (I also get restless legs - no really) I'll get up and go watch telly or make biscuits etc. If I'm not too restless I'll just sit up in bed and read forums/play games/search for campsites on the iPad for a while and then get back to sleep a couple of hours later. The most irritating thing is managing to get back to sleep about 20 minutes before the alarm goes off

A weekend away in the motorhome usually means I'll get at least one good nights sleep but for me the key thing was for me to stop stressing about not sleeping


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So sorry nothing is working for you Graham. At least you know you are in good company 
I read, recently, that magnesium is often implicated in insomnia. I am trying it.


Had a night in the motorhome recently and, although woken by Mr P at 4am, and then the dog decided to go out, when it was frosty  I managed to go back to sleep! 
I was very reluctant to go away, as being awake in the motorhome is worse then being awake at home. This is usually enough to stress me out and stop me sleeping but I had also entered the dog into an obedience competition, the next day, so that was a double whammy! I did take the Phenergan after walking the dog but that is very hit and miss over whether it works or not. 


I try the getting up and reading until tired. It makes no difference to me. What worries me is the long term effect on the brain. I have read that poor sleep is implicated in dementia. I wonder about watching tv? I usually sleep much better in the motorhome and we rarely watch tv or use computers. We lived in ours for a couple of years and I slept like a log. If it was just the getting away from it all why hasn't retirement worked?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kaytutt said:


> Getting off to sleep isnt usually an issue, I read for about 20 minutes then turn the light off and I'm gone but I'll usually wake 2-4 hours later and the crazy random thoughts kick in, sometimes it's something really trivial but I'll repeat it in my head over and over again, grrr.


I struggle to get off and then when I wake up - whether its after 5 mins or several hours - cannot get back to sleep. The crazy random thoughts are EXACTLY what I have as well and I also do the repetition thing!

We cant be the only 2 in the world doing this:frown2:

I am at the place now where I cannot function properly hence the time off. I am also feeling that at some stage I am going to lose my rag...which I haven't done for many a year. As I have a duty of care to younger people I cannot be like this around them (despite the fact that sometimes the little scrotes may deserve it :smile2

Graham :frown2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

patp said:


> ...I read, recently, that magnesium is often implicated in insomnia. I am trying it...


Thanks Pat - I'll look into it



patp said:


> I was very reluctant to go away, as being awake in the motorhome is worse then being awake at home.


I am fortunate that it doesn't have that effect and if anything I possibly sleep better in the MH :smile2: Sounds like I am trying to convince myself to give it all up and go full timing :grin2:



patp said:


> I try the getting up and reading until tired. It makes no difference to me.


I'm glad it isn't just me :serious:

We could start a club...

Graham :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Another bad night  I have read that your body can regard bed as a place to stay awake and so you should get up and stay up until tired. I have tried this but it does not work. I just lay awake and have to get up. 3am this morning . Got up and went back three times. 
It did all start with stress at work, I think, but I have no stress now that I am retired. I think that it has become a habit. Sometimes I am tired during the day but often I am not. Surely 4 hours a night is not good enough? I do suffer with generalised anxiety so that could be a factor? It has been better lately though. I have been trying St John's Wort. Don't think it is helping and I have been feeling more anxious so will stop it. Also tried Magnesium but did not help.
Hormones play a part in anxiety and I have persuaded my doctor to try me on HRT after reading an article. The journalist tried everything on earth and, eventually, ended up at Harley Street where they measured her hormones. She was prescribed Oestrogen and Testosterone as her levels were low. Testosterone, I understand, is not available on the NHS though may be different for men?
The HRT is definitely helping my anxiety during the day. Not sure if an increase in dose would help me sleep at night? Of course there are the risks to take into account.


Hope your break from work helps you.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm walking around like a zombie at the moment tbh. I'm not sure if this is caffeine withdrawal symptoms (I have had a 2 day headache so far) or general tiredness.

I'm doing the reading before bed and plenty of fresh air and exercise but it hasn't helped as yet. I'll keep on persevering though...

I think my garden will have never looked better; all the fences will get an earlier than usual paint this year; plus I'll have the cleanest cars in the street :smile2:

Graham :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It seems to come in waves doesn't it? I am feeling like a zombie today too . For the last three or four days on the trot I have been awake at 3am ish and not got any more sleep after that. The last two days I have not felt too bad and started to think I was turning into a 4 hours a night sleeper and would have to live with it. Today tells me I need more sleep!


I, too, exercise regularly by walking the dog for an hour and quarter in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon. I only drink caffeine in two cups of tea first thing in the morning. 


I am off all drugs now but very tempted to go and get some. Just hate the side effects.


There is an article in the paper telling us that us Brits take more sleeping pills than any other nation. What is going on?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I think I got c.4hours last night so a major bonus for me :smile2:

Plus the headache has dimmed throughout today. I took a couple of paracetamol for breakfast and they seem to have done the trick.:smile2:

Fingers crossed for tonight 0

I have not missed the caffeinated coffee at all taste wise (we only buy cheap stuff anyway so I am no connoisseur) and I don't feel so guilty having one or so more than usual :smile2:. The reading before lights out is helping too I think as I feel as if I want to put the light straight out and not read, due to tiredness. However I force myself to read for 25 mins or so as I know I wont sleep despite feeling tired. The mindfulness techniques will take time and practice before they get traction I think.

We are away tomorrow in the MH for 2 nights so we'll see how that goes.

Graham :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Glad to hear the reading is working. I have done that for years. 


Last night was awful  I usually drop off ok as have not had much sleep the night before. Last night I did not drop off then panic set in. I got up 4 times after lying for half an hour waiting for sleep to come. Read half a novel. I eventually tried an anti anxiety pill, it did not work. Tried some herbal sleeping tablets, they did not work. Ended up taking Phenergan at gone 2am and did, eventually drop off.


I think that, now, I am getting to believe that I will not sleep when I go to bed. I try changing my thoughts and thinking pleasant thoughts and mindfulness. Nothing seems to work. It is often mentioned, in self help guides, that we get used to not sleeping in our beds and so do not sleep. That is the reason for getting up and reading etc.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Sorry to hear this Pat :frown2:

I had an awful night as well - I must have checked the clock 10 times from 12.20 onwards!

We are away this weekend so I'll see how 2 nights in the MH go.

Graham :frown2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Good Luck


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Nope 2 days away didnt help:frown2:

Despite being on a very quiet site I had 2 bad 'uns!

On the plus side I am getting better at the mindfulness techniques.

Hey ho...we'll carry on doing what we are doing and see what happens. Next stop Sleep Clinic if I can get a referral.

Graham :frown2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So sorry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You might have noticed my clock thread, part of it is to do away with an easy to read clock, and have a luminous type, I find if I don't know the time I can get back off more easily, and I have my alarm set on the phone so I know I'll not over sleep.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> You might have noticed my clock thread, part of it is to do away with an easy to read clock, and have a luminous type, I find if I don't know the time I can get back off more easily, and I have my alarm set on the phone so I know I'll not over sleep.


 Interesting Kev. I have read that you shouldn't keep clock watching but I have also read that you shouldn't spend more than 20 minutes trying to drop off to sleep. The theory being that, by staying in bed, you end up teaching your body to lie awake in bed when your body should regard bed as a place to sleep. I got this from Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. They recommend getting up and reading etc until you feel tired and then, and only then, going back to bed.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Well I've been signed off for 2 more weeks but I'm not sure what good its going to do tbh. There isn't a sleep clinic near that the GP can refer me to however I have signed up for CBT but that doesn't start until June :frown2:

Graham :serious:


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

My wife is a terrible sleeper who, like you Graham, walks the floor and reads most of the night - accept when we have been babysitting our two toddler great-gran-children. She is then so knackered that she goes off like a light! I have asked myself why this should be as although the children can be tiring there is no doubt that she is no less tired most nights wandering around at 3am in the morning (what!). Just a thought.

Ron


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I had a decent night for a change, only got up once for the loo around 12, them slept til the alarm went off at 5.30.

However my liquid intake will only have been about 1 litre yesterday, need to catch up today so the kettle will be getting some stick, also going from half spoon sugar to normal sugar as ALL sweeteners are apt to increase the likelyhood of diabetes.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I am currently reading Chris Evans' book "Call the midlife" which is different...I'm not sure about it yet after 100 pages! Anyway he has a chapter on sleep and in it he eulogises about a Dr by the name of Guy Meadows and his book "The Sleep Book: How to sleep well every night"

So I thought I'd give it a punt. I managed to pick one up from Amazon for £5.70 delivered.

It seems to have some good internet reviews

I'll update when I've read it

Graham :smile2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

The new book I mentioned above has arrived so I'll start reading that later in the week.

Sleep-wise: not much change. I have now been off my sleeping tablets for 4 nights with no discernible difference so hopefully I can stop those for good now. 

Still caffeine free and reading prior to lights out. I don't feel I'm getting more sleep but people around me say I am nicer to be around now: less stressed and slower paced...which is a good thing and something I need to be aware of when I go back to work.

If it all gets worse when I return we have decided that I will knock it on the head as life is too short. I'll just get a stress free job doing something else instead...

Graham :smile2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Update

I have finished the book by Guy Meadows mentioned above and am now re-reading it.

It hasn't cured my insomnia by any means however I think it is worth reading as it does present some different perspectives on things and I can see how it will help some folks. It cost me around 7-8 quid off Amazon from memory...

From my pov my usual pattern is below (which doesn't mean it happens every night but is now a discernible pattern)...

- I am now dropping off at lights out, fairly quickly most nights within 30 mins or so, to the best of my knowledge.
- I then awake between 1.00-200 am every morning and lie there for between 3 - 4.5 hours not sleeping
- I use this time to try and relax and practice mindfulness techniques
- I then drop off again somewhere around 5.00 - 6.00am and get another 1 hour or so.

This is an improvement for me...believe it or not:frown2:

On this basis I am getting maybe 2 x 1.5 hour sleep cycles in (sleep experts talk in terms of 1.5 hour sleep cycles apparently). If I could convert some of the 4.5 hours where I am awake into another 1.5 hour cycle and keep what I have, I'd take that tbh...

Back to work tomorrow so we'll see if that has any effect on me and take it from there

Graham :smile2:


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