# Replace 2 drive tyres or all 4 - best option??



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Having just got my m/h out of open storage, I realise that the Conti Vanco Camper tyres on the drive wheels are useless in mud - I had to get a push to get started as one side was just spinning away (didn't have the new grip mats with me....  )

so I have decided to replace them with some M+S tyres (Michelin Agilis Alpin probably)

the question is - should I replace just the drive wheel tyres or all 4?? will I notice any difference if I replace all 4 versus just the drive pair??

the m/h only has 8000 miles on the tyres so I feel reluctant to replace the rear ones as they have very little wear and to reduce costs.

thoughts???


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Its the front wheels that do all the work, so if the rear tyres are are in good condition and not more than three years old I would just change the front end.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

thanks spacerunner

that's my kind of thinking but thought I'd seek opinions from people on here before forking out

I'm off to the Alps tonight and keeping fingers crossed that I won't have snowy roads to drive on as I'm not sure the tyres would be happy - luckily I have some snowsocks and chains with me just in case.

with so little wear I expected them to handle the mud better, and in hindsight perhaps I should have changed them earlier with the Alps trip looming!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't know if you are aware, but it is recommended by the tyre manufacturers, that if only fitting two tyres, the new tyres should be fitted to the rear!
I know it seems strange, and goes against everything I thought, but about 7 years ago, my tyre fitter told me this and I checked into it with Michelin and it was confirmed.


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

Grath said:


> I don't know if you are aware, but it is recommended by the tyre manufacturers, that if only fitting two tyres, the new tyres should be fitted to the rear!
> I know it seems strange, and goes against everything I thought, but about 7 years ago, my tyre fitter told me this and I checked into it with Michelin and it was confirmed.


I agree with the above


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Grath said:


> I don't know if you are aware, but it is recommended by the tyre manufacturers, that if only fitting two tyres, the new tyres should be fitted to the rear!
> I know it seems strange, and goes against everything I thought, but about 7 years ago, my tyre fitter told me this and I checked into it with Michelin and it was confirmed.


really?? how the hell is that going to help when it's the front drive wheel tyres that are slipping?? it doesn't make sense on physics alone and seems bizarre.

:? :? :? :?


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Its not all to do with wear and tread but the age of the tyre

You should move the rear ones to the front and put your new ones on the rear (assuming you have a front wheel drive van)

This is becuase the rears are older and so if say they are 4 years old then - if left on the back would be perhaps 6 or 7 yera old by the time they needed replaceing because of tread but would be old and so dangerous on that score....and the new ones you put on the front may be 50% worn out too

If moved to the front and the new ones put on the reas then the older tyres on the front would be worn out in say 1-2 years and so when replaced you would have new on front and 75-80% tread on the rear and all tyres would be only a couple of years old.

Phill


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I didn't say, you would get better grip, it is about safety,
Apparently, they now say that a rear wheel blow out is more dangerous than a front blow! I know strange, but they are the experts, not us!


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

drcotts said:


> Its not all to do with wear and tread but the age of the tyre
> 
> You should move the rear ones to the front
> This is becuase the are older and so if say they are 4 years old then.if left on the back would be perhaps 6 or 7 yera old by the time they needed replaceing becuase of tread but would be old and so dangerous on that score....and the new ones you put on the front may be 50% worn out too
> ...


ah - that I understand but I'm not replacing like for like - I want to replace the front drive tyres for something with better grip in mud and snow than the current set. if I moved the rear ones to the front, I would be using the same tyres and no further forward on the grip front!!

as my OP says, should I therefore replace all 4 (at the extra cost) so when the fronts wear down I can swap over or just work on the basis of retaining different front and rear tyres


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

The Michelins may only prove to be a little better than the Contis and only when they have a lot of tread.The main reason the wheels spin is because you are trying to pull over 3 tonnes on a slippery surface..


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> The Michelins may only prove to be a little better than the Contis and only when they have a lot of tread.The main reason the wheels spin is because you are trying to pull over 3 tonnes on a slippery surface..


probably the most sensible comment so far..... :wink:

I've had issues with poor grip on Vancos before as they're actually not that good on wet grass either - so I'm looking for that little extra "bite" to save me resorting to grip mats, chains, or worse - being towed out of situations. and as we do go to the Alps probably twice a season, winter tyres are only going to be a bonus I guess.


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

The problem will be if you put just mud/snow on the front when you brake on snow the back will overtake the front, but yes you will have better traction on the front to get out of the ditch :lol:.

Martin


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Sorry, you don't seem to like my answer, but I am only passing on the advice, that I received from the experts. Therefore very sensible!
You are free to do as you like, but at least you now know what is recommended!
Maybe you could keep off soft ground :lol:


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

See page 5 of 8 in the link

http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Replacing_Car_Tyres_1_June_2011.pdf


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

fatbuddha said:


> thanks spacerunner
> 
> that's my kind of thinking but thought I'd seek opinions from people on here before forking out
> 
> ...


When you go to the Alps are there any rules regarding snow tyres if there is snow on the road, I know that in Germany this is the case.

Martin


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Grath said:


> Sorry, you don't seem to like my answer, but I am only passing on the advice, that I received from the experts. Therefore very sensible!


Very sensible when related to cars but not to motorhomes. The reason for fitting the better tyres to the rear is that under hard braking there is a transfer of weight from back to front. On a car that is already lightly loaded on the rear this is markedly increased and the rear wheels need all the help they can get in terms of grip.

However most motorhomes carry much higher weight on the rear than the front so to some extent this problem is reversed. Even under hard braking there will be quite a load on the rear.

Fatbuddah, I would just replace the fronts, however just be aware that if you are going to Alpine regions in the winter then in some regions you may be required to have all 4 tyres as winter tyres or to have snow chains fitted.

I am using Toyo HO9 M&S.

JohnW


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Just to throw a spanner in the works . I read an article in a motoring magazine recently which stated that although its mandatory in other countries to fit winter tyres, some UK insurers consider this to be a vehicle modification as they are not the manufacturers recommended fitment. Could be worth checking out although I guess using Michelin Agilis camper tyres M&S rated is ok.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> Just to throw a spanner in the works . I read an article in a motoring magazine recently which stated that although its mandatory in other countries to fit winter tyres, some UK insurers consider this to be a vehicle modification as they are not the manufacturers recommended fitment. Could be worth checking out although I guess using Michelin Agilis camper tyres M&S rated is ok.


So in that case any tyre change is a 'modification'.
IMO this rates right alongside gassing stories
When I changed my tyres to winters and rang my insurers you could almost hear the look of 'so what?' on the other end of the phone.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Spacerunner said:


> [quote="Briamagazine napo throw howeverpanner in the works . I read an article in a motoring magazine recently which stated that although its mandatordocumentedher countries to fit winter tyres, some UK insurers consider this to be a vehicle modification as they are not the manufacturers recommended fitment. worth checking out although I guess using Michelin Agilis camper tyres M&S rated is ok.


So in that case any tyre change is a 'modification'.
IMO this rates right alongside gassing stories
When I changed my tyres to winters and rang my insurers you could almost hear the look of 'so what?' on the other end of the phone.[/quote]

Er no? if you look in a vehicle handbook the manufacturer states the tyre fitment required for the wheel size on the vehicle eg . Size , load index and speed rating.It is well documented that problems can arise when making accident insurance claims if this has not been adhered to .Some countries for example Spain actually put the tyre requirements in the vehicle registration documents and tyre fitters ask to see before changing tyres.
I was only stating what a motoring magazine was saying however I note that you felt it worthwile to check with your insurers.
I


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

*Tyres*

As has been said, don't compare m/homes with cars due to different 
Weights driving habits etc.
Are the rear wheels going to slide with ABS , not very likely,
I would do as has been said on my front wheel drive mh, best tyres on front for traction as I have had spinning on the road on steep hills,
But never had the rear slide out.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I would have just put the new tyres on the front, we are driving breeze blocks not racing cars...

Who can afford to go round with their foot flat to the floor in a motor home, infact who can afford to go round with thier foot flat to the floor in a car, that is what's wrong with jesser on top gear, who drives like that daft sod? :roll: .

ray.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi,

Brianjp is correct in stating that some insurers require notification although the vast majority do not.

This subject has been cover on mhf before. Check out this link to the ABI

https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/File...ter tyres The motor insurance commitment.ashx

Grath, liked your link to the tyre manufacturers assoc. Thanks.

Davy


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

The reason that the tyre industry recommend that you fit new or your best tyres to the back axle is that they have calculated what happens in the event one of the most likely accident scenarios.
The event that gives them good reason for concern is that of emergency braking in slippery conditions. Having the back end come round to meet you when going negotiating a down hill slippery corner in a car can be entertaining but in a big van it is probably a big accident.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

BillCreer said:


> The reason that the tyre industry recommend that you fit a new or your best tyres to the back axle is that they have calculated what happens in the event one of the most likely accident scenarios.
> The event that gives them good reason for concern is that of emergency braking in slippery conditions. Having the back end come round to meet you when going negotiating a down hill slippery corner in a car can be entertaining but in a big van it is probably a big accident.


that advice was probably given for the majority of motorists who never look
at their tyres or check th pressures. 
But we motorhomers are different aren't we?
How you replace the tyres depends on tread levels. 
The difference in grip level and water clearance between a new tyre and one with
4mm of tread (roughly half worn) is marginal.
It is likely that on a motorhome that starts with 4 new tyres , when the fronts need replacing the rears will still have plenty of tread and be perfectly safe.For example in my case when the fronts were down to 4mm the rears were between 6 and 7mm with even wear so I just replaced the fronts.This was after 20k miles.Having covered around 15k miles in the past year all4 tyres are about the same at 5mm.So next time I shall replace all 4.
The other factor to take into account is that after certain mileages , I believe 10k 
was quoted tyres develop a sort of memory effect within the walls.So a rear tyre that has only gone in one direction is not used to doing the steering and handling can be affected.This was one of the reason why the manufacturers dropped their advice to rotate wheels some years ago.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

And there was me thinking we don,t rotate the tyres because we just couldn,t be bothered, or just plain idle. :-$


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

I would replace all 4. 

I run two vehicles on Michelin Alpins.

Both Sprinters. One the 6 Wheel Motorhome, the other a 4 wheel SWB Traveliner.

They are good, but not the best. 

TM


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

BrianJP said:


> BillCreer said:
> 
> 
> > The reason that the tyre industry recommend that you fit a new or your best tyres to the back axle is that they have calculated what happens in the event one of the most likely accident scenarios.
> ...


Hi,

I must admit that I do not follow the advice of the manufacturers but that does not mean I think that their advice is wrong.

I know, from experience, what happens when you slam your brakes on in an emergency and as JohnW says the back end, of a motorhome, comes around in an uncontrolled way.
In a car you might have room to sort it out but your options in a motorhome are far fewer.

Have you never gone round a corner going down hill in slippery conditions and wondered what the van would do I you had to suddenly slam the brakes on? (and don't tell me that you would never just slam the brakes on)

It's all down to what price you put on safety.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Of course I am concerned about that but the point I was making was that a brand new off the shelf tyre is unlikely help you any more than a half or 3/4 worn tyre.
If it did then we would all be changing our tyres when they had only done a few thousand miles


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

It depends a lot on how much tread is left on the rear tyres as well.

The Discovery, being permanent 4WD wears its tyres fairly evenly, so we change the set at one go, but I rarely wait for the last 0.5mm to wear down, we change them BEFORE being legally required to do so, and often sell the set with 4-5mm still on them on ebay. We don't get a lot for them, but we also don't have to pay for disposal either, and it helps the piggy bank a bit 

In the case of the OP I'd be inclined to change the set if the rears are down to 3-4mm of tread, otherwise I'd put the new ones on the front where they can do the most good, steering and braking.

Peter


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