# SOS Need technical Drawings for Fiat Ducato Engine 1993



## see_leigh (Oct 6, 2013)

Does anyone have detailed technical drawings for the engine of a Fiat Ducato 1993 (Hymer B544)

We moved into our van with modest savings with a view to travel full time in the UK and Europe when our Hymer broke down in the 4th week of our trip.

The engine had blown and we were informed that we would need to have our engine remanufactured. 
We had it towed to a Remanufacturing specialist who insisted that we buy a newly remanufactured engine from Italy. 
Now he says he does not know how to fit the engine as the company in Italy have sent him a box with additional components in and he says that without details drawings he can not finish the job. 

He has apparently approached Fiat but they can not help. He has had the van for 2 months now and the repair bill is looking like £10,000!!!!! If anyone can advise I would be most grateful as we need our home back and we are in quite a desperate situation.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It sounds to me as though you need to find a Motor Engineer to help you.

Normally a mechanic won't need drawings to remove an engine and fit an identical one. It's done by seeing how the replacement comes and fitting the components from the old engine as required. I am assuming that you are not mechanical? However it's a bit like a jigsaw except that you have the benefit of having taken it apart so you know how to put it back together. I have never heard of anyone needing drawings to do that. Though I expect there are Fiat workshop manuals with views of it all a decent mechanic doing your job shouldn't need them.

Where are you, I assume there is a language barrier?

If the engine was sourced through this mechanic then it should be the right one and if it isn't it's his fault and responsibility, not yours. It sounds as though the wrong thing must have been ordered or sent.

Employ help if it's beyond your ability, Alan.


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## see_leigh (Oct 6, 2013)

In fairness to the mechanic it was not him that dismantled the engine. Another garage did that to diagnose a blown engine but said it was beyond their expertise to remanufacture and fit it. Hence us getting it towed to a Remanufacturing specialist.

He says that the company in Italy sent him a kit of extra components so that the engine can be fitted to several different engine blocks so now he doesn't know which components are specifically for our Fiat engine.

He is obviously struggling and has asked us to help him source drawings. 

I have suggested getting the van moved to someone who does know how to fit the engine but he says that it would cost us too much have it moved - plus it would mean that the £10,000 of work he has done would not be under warranty.

The van is in Reading so no language barrier!!!


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

There's never been a Haynes workshop manual for the Fiat Ducato.

But there are Peter Russek Manuals, and they are VERY detailed, covering engine/gearbox removal, strip, rebuild and re-installation.
All the technical/engineering details that an automotive engineer would need are in there.

In my experience the print quality is rubbish, but the technical info is gold-dust.

You can get one via mail order - just follow this link, and search down for the exact engine type in yours.

http://www.russek-publications.com/shop/citroen/citroen.html

(That said, I'm very concerned to hear that what I assume to be a competent mechanic can't refit such an engine/box. There have been literally millions of these things chugging around Europe for 3 decades now and the early versions are very very simple beasts....I can't imagine that he hasn't worked on hundreds of them over the years.)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Good advice from The Nomad. Let your mechanic decide which manual/s he wants.

What he has received from Italy will be an engine block fitted with other components, exactly what was fitted to it depends on what he ordered or what the supplier supplies. However if it is the same type of block as your old one then your old components will fit it. It really isn't so very difficult, unless it's not the same as your old one (for some reason such as no one remanufactures the same one) and he is attempting to fit another model of engine which is more difficult. It seems a bit unlikely that he is trying without telling you as it's probable that at least some of your ancillaries would not fit.

How complete an engine did he buy, did it come with a cylinder head fitted?

Alan.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

It could be a 'short engine' Alan.

That is the block, complete with crankshaft and pistons plus camshaft (if applicable). There could also be a complete gasket set.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

As someone who was a mechanic once ( many years ago now!!) it would seem to me that whoever is doing the work for you has very limited knowledge as, has been said previously, swapping engines is a pretty straight forward job (and, even allowing for the cost of the engine should certainly NOT cost anything approaching £10,000 a quarter of that would be a more realistic figure.)

I think you need a second opinion from someone who KNOWS what they are doing. No mechanic should need detailed drawings to assemble on engine. the components are made to fit together, they should require no modification whatsoever. Its a bit like Lego in many respects, the bits just "fit" together. If they dont then its the wrong part !!

Do you know what major component failed resulting in a replacement engine being required?? My assumption would be its either the crankshaft or a connecting rod. If thats the case then all you would need would be, as has been stated before a "short" engine. basically thats just the bottom bit!! 

The cylinder head (where all the valves are) the inlet and exhaust pipework (for want of a better description) and any turbo (is it a turbocharged engine??) simply bolts onto the top of the short engine (its a bit more complicated than that but in reality it is a pretty simple job for a mechanic of even limited ability. 

If your "man" is having trouble then I would have serious doubts about his competence. All engines work on the same principles and they all have similar components, they differ in minor ways but in essence they are all the same. Think in terms of say a wrist watch, they do the same job in the same way using the same principles, its just the innards that are a bit different between a Rolex and a Timex. Its the same with vehicle engines.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

> It could be a 'short engine' Alan.
> 
> That is the block, complete with crankshaft and pistons plus camshaft (if applicable). There could also be a complete gasket set.


That's why I asked about the head 747, to try to find out what he bought. I didn't say short engine in case it confused the OP who doesn't seem to know a lot. He might have thought I meant a smaller (shorter) engine than the old one!

Alan.


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## see_leigh (Oct 6, 2013)

*short engine*

It was a short engine that we purchased

Cylinder 4 was damaged as was a piston and the engine block was cracked.

It does have turbo.

We had to get the diesel pump remanufactured.

He says that the new engine block is not the same as the old one despite it being the same engine code - he says that this is a common problem.

He has also replaced a water pump.

We supplied the clutch as we had a spare.


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Hes ripping you and talking bull****, £10,000 is at least 4times over the odds, any mechanic worth his salt could do that job with his eyes closed its pre historic by todays standards.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If the block isn't the same surely it needs to go back and be replaced with one which is the same. Was it exchange or do you still have the old one for comparison? 

Is the difference minor meaning that your ancillaries will fit. In other words is it a well know modification/engine swap or is your guy grasping at straws and really considering attempting to fit the wrong engine?

Some engines do slot in in place of others, most don't, Alan.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

To try and put things in perspective, the going price for a good Hymer of that model and age is around £10k.
Spending £10k on a rebuilt engine seems a strange thing to do?


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## zedman (Dec 21, 2012)

take it from a former diesel fitter who used to work on these engines all the time back in the 90's, NO WAY would it cost £10k to to this job !!!
take the van somewere else as this guy is taking you for a ride, the engine your talking about is as straight forword as they come to recon, back in the day we had them stripped, re-cond and back on the road in 7-10 days, price £1000 - £1500 max and we weren't pushed at that.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

I've done many such engine rebuilds, mainly in cars the work is just the same but a bit heavier. 
Half a day to get the old one out and stripped, half a day to build the new one up and half a day to refit.
James


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Cracked block apparently, so another engine required. Rebuild not on.

Is the engine scarce? I don't know, Alan.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

erneboy said:


> Cracked block apparently, so another engine required. Rebuild not on.
> 
> Is the engine scarce? I don't know, Alan.


Alan
It's been mentioned the new one is a short engine so actually a quick job to sit them side by side and move the head and ancillaries over. Even if it's an exchange I've never sent the old one back until I have received the new one so the rebuild is actually just a swap over.
James


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

With you on that James, have done it often enough too. I was just pointing out that the original had a cracked block and therefore couldn't be rebuilt. 

Earlier I asked the OP whether he still had the old engine since it seems a simple enough matter to compare the two and see whether they were going to be interchangeable. Once or twice when in doubt I have stripped an old one and sent it before ordering a new one so I could be certain that I would get the right thing. 

It seemed from what the OP has told us that there must be considerable difference and that some mysterious components came with the replacement engine. It all sounds mighty strange and unusual to me.

I also can't understand buying one in Italy when England is full of companies selling recon engines. My experience is that buying parts of all sorts in the UK is often far less expensive than buying in other European countries and for sure it's easier to resolve problems should they arise.

Anyway we probably won't hear much more as the OP has run out of free posts I think. Pity, it's interesting. On the face of it the mechanic doesn't seem competent but maybe there are things we aren't aware of, Alan.


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