# RV versus Coachbuilt? Pros and Cons?



## asprn

We have a Swift Kontiki 820 Vogue 6-wheeler with the fixed bedroom at the rear, and have been totally happy with it. I now have an option on a new AutoTrail Cheyenne 840SE which we will have to make a decision on in the next 10 days or so; as coachbuilts go, the 840SE would suit us down to the ground, with the 3-room arrangement (there's just herself & me  ).

HOWEVER:- given that I'll be putting out next to £50k, I've been having some second thoughts about going for an A-class instead. It seems to me that I could get (e.g.) a nice (apparently) Georgie-Boy Landau for the same money or less, which gives a load more space & comfort. What I need to know is your experiences of:-

: reliability
: maintenance costs
: maintenance availability, i.e. parts & expertise
: fuel costs
: anything else you might think of.

We are experienced motorhomers, and I've been round the block a few times regarding vehicles. What I'd appreciate though is input regarding the pros and cons. Thanks! 

.


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## des

I can only give you the result of experience since January. As follows:

reliability - no problems at all so far (touch lots of wood)
: maintenance costs -nothing yet apart from minor warranty bits
: maintenance availability, i.e. parts & expertise - parts easy, lots of expertise on this forum
: fuel costs - running on lpg (3.5k conversion) doing 7mpg average price 35p per litre
: anything else you might think of. - absolutely no regrets. loved our autocruise sunningdale, but this is an entirely different beast. anne calls it our "mobile cottage". that about sums it up. driving interesting, but no problems to date. did C, then C+E, costing about £2k, well worth the investment in my opinion. width occasionally an issue as you crawl past hgv to avoid mirror contact. just watch out for "dreaded tail swing" - cost me £600 to learn this the hard way.

Whatever you choose - good luck!

des


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Hi

Irrespective of the size of the RV and weight, I would suggest a couple of professional lessons at handling a 30 footer.

Also, is the RV double glazed? It was something in my mind when I looked at RV's earlier in the year?

What about selling it on later - is there a bigger market for your coach built than a RV?

Would (example only) Tyne Valley Motorhomes take a RV in PX?

What about insurance? Compulsary tracker?

If me and fulltiming get on OK, I will more than likely take on a 40 footer, but will really research it first.

Are spares easily available - EG - a new windscreen when in Germany or Spain?

I dont want to sound negative, but I do know exactly where you are coming from when thinking of spending 50K

Russell


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Hi

On a plus side, space, space and more space and a little chef cooker!

Russell


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## 98452

RV at the right price will sell easily.

I have not got a tracker fitted.

Open the door of an RV and \/ \/ \/ \/


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## 88927

Hi asprn
That is a nice van you currently have, quite rare beasts and they do seem to sell for very high prices, so I guess that you will have no trouble finding a new owner for it. I would be very tempted to try selling it privately first, rather than give a dealer some more margin.... (that is not taking a pop at a dealer, it is just that I think you will achieve more money privately than through a dealer...)
Anyway back to your questions.
Firstly reliability, well most American vehicles are over engineered and built like the proverbial brick outhouse. They will go on for years with regular maintenance and because they are built simple and tough they tend to give few problems. In saying that, they do break, as does anything else, but it tends to happen less frequently in my opinion.
Maintenance costs shouldn't really be much different to say a Mercedes based vehicle and we have our very own mobile service technician on MHF, damondunc, so you can get an RV serviced easily.
Availability of spares etc is also pretty straight forward. Parts and accessories are available from LC1962, Linda runs Stateside Tuning for RV stuff. There is, as previously said, lots of knowledge on MHF and other forums to help you to support an RV in Europe and provided you have an RV serviced and maintained correctly it should not be any more problematic than any other type of motorhome, it fact usually a lot better.
Fuel costs, this is always a big question and the answers can be very different, depending upon the fuel used, size and weight of RV, driving style and conditions. We have a 30 foot, 7 ton RV with a 6.5 litre Chevy turbo diesel and we get around 16 MPG out of it. Do not believe anyone who tells you that you will get 18 / 20 MPG, it is not possible. Modern petrol engines should return about 10 - 12 depending on the size and weight of the chosen RV and about 8 - 10 on LPG (for the same RV size obviously...). When you consider that the difference in MPG for our diesel motor is about 10MPG less than an average european motorhome, you can quickly see that the fuel cost is not the be all and end all that it is made out to be (unless you intend driving huge distances daily / weekly of course). If you take a trip of 1000 miles in a European MH at (say) 25 MPG it will use 40 gallons of diesel, compare that to our RV at 16 MPG and the diesel used is 62.5 gallons. The fuel cost difference between the two vehicles is therefore £90 to cover 1000 miles (based upon diesel at £0.88 pence per litre).
This amount of money would not stop me from owning an RV....
The only other thing I can think to say to you is that an RV will not suit everyone. It will depend largely upon where you intend to operate the vehicle, for example if you spend all of your time in Cornwall or going around some tiny French or Italian roads then you may consider an RV to be the wrong vehicle, but if your travelling is going to be varied then it will matter less. The one thing that an RV will give you is internal space when you are out and about. Remember that an A Class RV is essentially a 2 berth motorhome. It has a bedroom, a bathroom, a kitchen and a lounge. The lounge area will usually make up into sleeping accommodation but the main thing is that it is regarded as "temporary" by the Americans.
That said, the rock and roll couch in our RV is more than adequate for our 13 year old lad, when he comes away with us, to sleep on, I am just making the point that the Americans view the fixed rear bed as "the" sleeping accommodation :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Well I think I have rambled on enough, and I hope that some of this (if not all :lol: ) is helpful to you.
My final bit of advice is do not rush into buying anything. The new motorhome you are considering is very nice but..... I think you will lose a lot of money as soon as you turn the key, so maybe it is worth looking around the RV marketplace and getting a really beautiful, modern RV for £30 - 40,000, that is a lot of bus for the money and a lot of holidaying as well...... It is your money and your choice and I wish you well whatever you choose to do... Good luck :lol: :lol: .

Keith


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Hi

Another RV plus point is a bath tub!

Russell


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## 88927

*Re: RV*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Another RV plus point is a bath tub!
> 
> Russell


Hi Russell
Only if you are 3 feet tall with a hump in your back mate :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keith


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## Rapide561

*Rv Bath*

Hi Keith

Maybe it could be used then as a place to defrost a turkey before it goes in the little chef thing

Russell


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## 88927

Sounds about right Russell :wink: :wink: 

Keith


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## Rapide561

*Bath*

...I know!

Russell


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## asprn

kands said:


> I would be very tempted to try selling it privately first


No question - I was offered the equivalent of £12k trade-in against a much higher private-sale figure. We don't need to sell before buying, so it's Private for me. :lol:



kands said:


> The fuel cost difference between the two vehicles is therefore £90 to cover 1000 miles (based upon diesel at £0.88 pence per litre).


That's exactly the info I was asking for, and I agree.



kands said:


> if you spend all of your time in Cornwall or going around some tiny French or Italian roads then you may consider an RV to be the wrong vehicle


We go to France, Spain & Scotland towing a Trabant (yes, a Trabi...) so never go on tiny roads unless forced to. It's Autoroutes 'R' Us to the destination on the way out, then perhaps a more leisurely drive back. I have less then 4 yrs till I escape full-time work :blob2: and the plan is to over-winter in Spain and then wander through Europe & Scandinavia for some of the remainder, & return to our downsized UK home for summer. Your point about being a large 2-berth is exactly what we thought - it'll only be us, so that's no problem (quite the reverse). The concept of all that space & comfort is increasing by the hour, I have to say....



kands said:


> I think you will lose a lot of money as soon as you turn the key, so maybe it is worth looking around the RV marketplace and getting a really beautiful, modern RV for £30 - 40,000, that is a lot of bus for the money and a lot of holidaying as well


Is the depreciation that bad then? It's another unknown factor for me, although I accept you're bound to take the hit on any brand-new vehicle. You think I'd get something nice for £30 - 40,000? [wipes dribble from keyboard...] Any suggestions about where to look?

Regarding the tracker, my insurers (Caravan Guard) only insist on one on vehicles > £50k.

Dougie.

.


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## 88927

Hi Dougie
Stop dribbling mate :lol: :lol: :lol: It really depends on what you want / need. If you want a Tag Axle Monaco Diplomat, around 38 feet long and about 16 tons then...........................Not a chance of getting one for less than £150,000ish but, if you want something like a 30 foot standard RV around 5-6 years old with low miles etc then the £30-£40,000 should be about the right ballpark, with some negotiating of course....
Do I take it that you are A) Scottish and B) live in Scotland? If I knew where abouts in the country you lived then I could maybe point you at some dealers or whatever. What do you think you are looking for in an RV? Have you considered layout and size? Please let me know....
With regard to depreciation, I was of course referring to a new and dealer purchased motorhome. Generally you will not lose to much money on a motorhome but the more you pay initially then the more it will drop when you sell it secondhand, which is why it is important to buy carefully mate.....

Keith


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## 101276

*landau*

we lived in a georgieboy landau [cracking motorhome]
for 41/2 years few problems from new, but show me an rv were you dont,
moved up to a monaco diplomat [13 ton] [£80,000] for more space for work.
You may have a few jobs to do on the landau but go for it.
Best thing we spent on the landau was air bags.

Steve


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## asprn

Hi Keith,

I've mopped up now, thank you. 

A 30 foot standard RV around 5-6 years old with low miles sounds about right tbh, although 34 feet might be better....

I am *Scots* 8) living in Lincolnshire. We got the Kontiki from Brownhills 5 years ago just before Christmas (I spent 3 hours nailing them so was happy with the deal, but wouldn't buy from them again). I'd be happy to look at a van from a private seller, especially from someone "connected" rather than from an ad in the Stockton Slipper or whatever. 8O So if you can point me in a direction, that would be fine.



monacosteve said:


> We lived in a georgieboy landau [cracking motorhome]


I like the look of the Georgie Boys layout - haven't seen in the flesh, but had a good look at on-line pics. The Landau seems to be the kind of layout that would suit us.

Dougie.


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## zaskar

[/quote]
I like the look of the Georgie Boys layout - haven't seen in the flesh, but had a good look at on-line pics. The Landau seems to be the kind of layout that would suit us.
Dougie.[/quote]

We've been fulltime in a Landau 3301 (lounge slide) for 3 years now and yes, it's a superb layout for fulltiming.
We've also fitted rear airbags which has helped enormously with handling and for carrying our 250cc Honda.
Storage is ample, both inside and out. Tanks are plenty big enough, we fill fresh/empty grey about twice a week (just) and empty black once a week via macerator.
Serivices locker is a little bit awkward to use as it's partially under the rear end of the slideout. I would thoroughly recomend a macerator to make life easier.
Like most folks, I've ripped out the useless Magic Chef and replaced it with a Stoves 500D.I.T which is miles better.
As far as I am aware, ALL Landau's are double glazed and the only problem we have is that we find the windows a little too smoked for our taste but it would be too expensive to do anything about it so we put up. I would recomend yo purchase or make a silver screen as the windscreen get s bad condensation in the winter, even with a full set of MaxAir vents fitted
Depending on the conversion (probably Midland - early Landau's or Travelworld - later models) there can be some buzzing noise from the transformer which is situated in the last locker, L/H side UNDER THE BED!!!!! :? I've fitted isolation mounts and insulated the locker which has helped. Water system has frozen twice in minus 10 which is both inconvenient and downright annoying considering they're supposed to be certified down to minus 30!!!!! I think its a small transfer pipe against the outside wall in the services locker which is impossible to get at and lag. Only takes a couple of minutes to defrost with a hairdryer but it's still bl**dy annoying! :? 
Livability is excellent.with plenty of space. We use a 2KW fan heater for the vast magority of the time and only in the real depths of winter nead a 500W skirting board heater in the bedroom as well. 
I've also fitted a 40W greenhouse heater in the bathroom on a thermostat cos believe me, with the door permanently shut, that bathroom gets dammed cold in winter without it.
Driving isn't too bad tho you can really tell that the coach is at it's max weight for the chassis. The coach doesn't really like hill work and could do with more power from the 6.5TD. I'm not a flyer by any means but I do consider it underpowered tho' being a fulltimer probably doesn't help cos we're usually loaded up to (and probably past) the max! - _jumps in nuclear fall out bunker and waits for incoming from the weight police! _ 
Best I've had out of her is 14 on the autoroute inFrance, worst is 8 touring West coast of Scotland on mainly single track this year - that was bl**dy painfull! - the fuel I mean, not the place!  
Build quality not bad, most things are lasting OK. It's not as well built as my '95 Gulfstream, but not bad all the same.

Faults. - inside
A few hinges needed tightening / runners adjusting.
seems to EAT 12v light bulbs helps if you use quality bulbs such as Lucas. Cheap rubish like RING wont last a week!
New circuit board for water heater £200 - ouch!

Faults - outside
All new calipers due to corrosion/seizing because they stand for so long.
60 quid a peice from West Midland American Vehicles so quite pleased.
Pressure switch on electro/hyraulic handbrake pump mounted on chassis -common fault apprarantly.
Two blowouts - both rear inners' different times. Apparantly it's always the inners that go. Just one of those things. weight / age thing.
Had to reseal front cap and TV aerial mount.
Usual fun and games with the electric step! 8O seems to be behaving since I last fettled it! Shhhhhh 

Thats about it really. Wonderful coach, VERY comfy, pretty reliable and I love her to bits. We really havent a clue what we're gonna replace her with.
Any more, just ask


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## 88927

Hi Dougie
Just saw THIS
Seems like a good buy.....

Keith


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## asprn

kands said:


> Hi Dougie
> Just saw THIS
> Seems like a good buy.....
> 
> Keith


It's quite interesting - nice length, but looks a bit tatty?

Dougie.


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## 88927

I don't know I would call it tatty but it certainly could do with a clean and polish and the inside needs "decluttering" as they say....
Personally I think it looks quite a good buy and if you were to go and see it, then you may be able to negotiate a better price face to face....

Just a thought

Keith


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## asprn

kands said:


> I don't know I would call it tatty but it certainly could do with a clean and polish and the inside needs "decluttering" as they say....
> Personally I think it looks quite a good buy and if you were to go and see it, then you may be able to negotiate a better price face to face....
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> Keith


I've mailed the seller to sound him out.....

Cheers,

Dougie.


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## 101411

*Full Timing*

Hi Doughie

If your looking at spending that kind of money why don't you do what we did and jump on a plane for a long weekend to USA. We did a 4 day trip flying on Virgin stayed in a great hotel and rented a car for less than £800. The amount and range of vehicles is mesmerizing. For every 1 you see over here there are 2000 in USA (probably more!!). We ended up buying a 2005 Fourwinds Chateau 31P C Class with 5600 miles on the clock for $46000. Landed and taxes paid should set us back about £38k. Absolute bloody bargain!!!!! A couple of days getting it converted and maybe a gas conversion later and a bit of messing about getting it registered and you have a £50+k motorhome for £40k!!

There were literally hundreds to choose from and we only went to Florida as this is where the shipping agent we are going to use is based. If its an A Class you want have a look at www.lazydays.com or www.independencerv.com (we bought ours from here). The lazy days site doesn't include prices but if you email me ill send over the last pricelist I had for UK compliant RVs.

We also had a great time shopping (especially at this time of year!!!). Its not fortune and if you find the one you want you will get the cost of your trip back tenfold.

Good luck

Darren


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## asprn

*Re: Full Timing*

Hi Darren,

Funnily enough, a good friend of mine (who is currently aboard a freighter doing an 83-day world cruise 8O ) mailed this moring, recommending Lazy Days to me. Thanks for the perspective - we'll look at this too, for sure.

Regards,

Dougie.


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## asprn

*Re: landau*

Well - we took the plunge!   After much research (compressed certainly, but nonetheless comprehensive), we take delivery of a 1999 Rexhall Rexair 32ft on Monday next. It presses all our buttons in terms of layout, and drives as I would want. As it's only done 14,500 miles, I don't expect it to provide trouble.

Keith, it's within your (and my) projected price bracket - £37.5k - which considering I had an option on a new C Class for £50k at the start of this thread, is simply no comparison.

Can't wait.

** The Kontiki is now available for sale. PM me for details - it's a genuinely lovely van - tons of space and the separate bedroom - all receipts - lots spent on it - recently re-upholstered - blah blah. **

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/advert-view-details-428.html

Regards,

Dougie.


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## foggyparrot

Well done and congratulations Dougie and Mags,

We're absolutely delighted, as I'm sure everyone else is, for you.

We really look forward to seeing you and the Rexair very soon! It really sounds like you got an excellent deal and as Kieth (Kands) said, I really do think that you will feel that you have got a lot more for your dollar than what you were originally looking at.

If you want to just give it a weekend away locally, we can reccommend a couple of sites around here that will gladly take you.

Take care,

Mike and Jill (the offer of the wee dram still stands!!)


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## 88927

Hey Dougie
Well done mate and welcome to the world of RVing :lol: :lol: :lol: Rexhall Rexair 32 ft eh??? Now I am jealous :lol: :lol: Still it stops me from breaking my piggy bank open and getting into trouble :wink: 
Really hope that you get on with it and as Mike says maybe we can meet up for a weekend sometime soon......

Take care mate

Keith


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## olley

Hi Dougie congratulations, another one has seen the light. 
:wav: 

olley


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## asprn

foggyparrot said:


> Well done and congratulations Dougie and Mags. We're absolutely delighted, as I'm sure everyone else is, for you.


Mike & Jill - thank you very much. \/



foggyparrot said:


> I really do think that you will feel that you have got a lot more for your dollar than what you were originally looking at.


I already feel that. I just wish I could stop loading the pictures I took, & stop dribbling. 



foggyparrot said:


> the offer of the wee dram still stands!!


You may be sorry. I'm something of a Conny Sewer when it comes to malts.



olley said:


> Hi Dougie congratulations, another one has seen the light.


Thanks, Olley



kands said:


> Really hope that you get on with it and as Mike says maybe we can meet up for a weekend sometime soon.....


We'd like that - thanks.

I'll change my avatar when it arrives. :hathat6:

All I need to do now is find someone who will enjoy the Kontiki as much as we have...

Regards,

Dougie.


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## kijana

Well done asprn!

It's great to know another has seen the light - we'll be in the majority in another 10 years!

Good luck in all your travels; hope to meet up in some sunny clime one day.

Bruce & Marion


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## asprn

kijana said:


> ... we'll be in the majority in another 10 years!


Wot - the four of us?? 

Regards,

Dougie.


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## asprn

Well - tomorrow's the big day.  We collect our new Rexair in the afternoon, and drive it back home - only about 60 miles. Les & Jayne at RidgesetRV in Dronfield seem competent and friendly, and the van has only done 14,500 miles (1999) so we're pretty confident the combination will prove more than satisfactory.

After rooting about, I opted for SafeGuard for insurance - £568 with a £450 excess & full UK & European unlimited AA recovery plus £2k personal effects cover. No limits on actual European insurance cover either, unlike others I tried. Unfortunately, CaravanGuard (who I've been with 5 years) don't yet do RVs although they state they hope to in the next few months.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards,

Dougie.


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## 88927

Good luck for tomorrow Dougie.... Fingers are crossed mate...
Please let us know how you get on with the handover, and don't forget, do not leave until you are 100% sure about everything on the RV... You would be well advised to take a notebook and pen and make loads of notes especially when they explain how stuff works, you will only forget in the excitement otherwise and then scratch you heads saying "Now what did he say about this" :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Wishing you our best Dougie

Keith

Ps Still jealous :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Pusser

£90 QUID. I've come over all faint. 8O


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## asprn

Pusser said:


> £90 QUID. I've come over all faint. 8O


QUE??


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## asprn

Slightly off-topic, although it still relates to my van... :lol:

When we arrived home and walked back into the van, there was a smell of gas coming from the cooker. There was no smell on either occasion where we viewed & tested the van, and no smell whilst we were driving. I turned the gas off at the tank, and the smell was gone by this morning. I drove it 50 miles today with the gas still turned off - no smell. On returning home, I turned it back on, and the smell returned within 2 minutes. 

Can I conclude the obiouvs then? Or might it be to do with the tank having been filled just before we collected it? There's no smell outside round the tank though.

As it's LPG, will a qualified gas plumber be ok if required to take a look?

Regards,

Dougie.


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## damondunc

*smell of gas*

Hi Dougie,
The most likely cause of the smell is the oven pilot, make sure that the oven control knob is turned to off, the only burner on american cookers that is safety controlled, is the main oven burner you must make sure that all of the controls are turned completly off. There are no thermocouples on american RV cookers as compared to most european motorhomes, therefore if any of the controls are even slightly on you will have a gas smell.
Cheers Duncan.


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## asprn

*Re: smell of gas*

The Kontiki sold today :multi: so we say goodbye to that in a couple of days when it's collected. Sorry to see it go, but glad at the same time, obviously. Spent most of the weekend transferring everything into the new bus ready for a 2-night test-run next week - the mains tripped after 2½ hours and now will only run off the generator (my consumer unit in the house trips every time I reconnect it, & although I've identified which circuit breaker is causing it, I've no means of fixing it).

I called Les from RidgeSetRV yesterday and within 3 minutes, he'd arranged for it to be looked at tomorrow here. Well impressed. 

I also had the gas checked out before Christmas (see above re smell) and nothing was found. Learnt about the absence of thermocoupling on the pilot & put it down to my error, but it still smells.  Slightly worried.

Regards,

Dougie.


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## 98452

The Kontiki did you not PX it?

My caravan is at a dealers sale on return since August (latest model still with huge waiting list on them :roll: ) but should be gone by end of month as he finally has a sizable deposit.


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## asprn

RR said:


> The Kontiki did you not PX it?
> 
> My caravan is at a dealers sale on return since August (latest model still with huge waiting list on them :roll: ) but should be gone by end of month as he finally has a sizable deposit.


No. It wasn't the dealer's bag as he specialises in American RVs. He made some calls but couldn't shift it.

Regards,

Dougie.


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## 98452

Well done Dougie.

Great deal of pressure off your mind :wink: :wink:


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## asprn

RR said:


> Well done Dougie. Great deal of pressure off your mind :wink: :wink:
> .


Oh, I've had worse pressure. :microwave:

Selling a van for good reasons is a lot better than selling because of some problem with it. Nice family from Essex will be using it partly for holidays & partly for the racing circuit. A bit galling though - we spent a lot of dough having the interior re-upholstered just over a year ago, and the lady doesn't like it, to the point where she's having it re-done again. Such is life though - good luck to them. 

On another note, I mentioned earlier about my mains tripping in the Rexhall. Duncan from Star Spangled Spanner arrived today as per Les's arrangement, and he is *soooo* knowledgeable as well as the most helpful person you could meet. It seems to have been an earthing problem, and his systematic reconnection and subsequent monitoring for a couple of hours seems to have done the trick. I am also much the wiser on a whole host of issues, which he imparted whilst working.

So - a big thank you to Duncan and also to Les at RidgesetRV who didn't flinch (as promised) at this warranty issue. You really will not do better than asking Duncan for help if you ever need any.

Regards,

Dougie.


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