# What the hell is Trump doing now



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Is he completely mad ? 

Seperating kids from families 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The UK would never do that. But wait.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

And you know that ?

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Do you bother with current affairs, you know, keeping up with the news Sandra?

You should try it, perhaps it would be a good idea before commenting, especially when it's been a major fuss for months. Google is your friend.

You are condemning Trump for something your own government have no compunction in doing as past or their hostile environment policy.

Still don't worry, it's just collateral damage when countries set out to be tough on immigrants to pander to populist opinions.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Possibally not

But why would I when you seems know everything 

As for commenting, well it is a free country 

Well I’m sure you will let me know when and if it isn’t 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I just read the papers and keep up Sandra. I don't know everything.

Of course you are completely free to comment. I didn't suggest that you weren't, nor have I ever done so.

I was merely pointing out that the UK does the same thing, and I'm sure you're glad I did since you didn't know that. Of course I agree with you entirely that it's cruel and inhuman. Will you now write to the Home Secretary and PM to complain about the UK doing it?

But as I said it's what we can expect when people bang on and on and on about how much they dislike immigrants, some politicians will see that and take an opportunity to cash in on those emotions. Trump and May for example.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Very popular with Republicans on the right of the spectrum who believe that the country is being over run by immigrants. Particular the white of Anglo Saxon origin who see themselves as a shrinking minority. Up to 60% approveal from that constituency apparently.

Never happen in this country would it:surprise:


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## xgx (Oct 14, 2005)

Simples, their Parents are to blame for putting them at risk! 

Polly Ticking: more than happy to swap the Abbot and Jezzer for Trumpy +1 and get this country on a proper footing


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Quite right. If those nasty immigrant type parents cause problems it's only right that their children should be punished for it.

There's no place for humanity when you're trying to run a modern country.


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## xgx (Oct 14, 2005)

erneboy said:


> Quite right. If those nasty immigrant type parents cause problems it's only right that their children should be punished for it.
> 
> There's no place for humanity when you're trying to run a modern country.


or sentimentality ...


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well earnyboy if I didn’t I would now as it seems to be part of the debate on Europe on Radio 4 today

.......discussion on Europe and America’s view on migrants and it’s possible effect on the future of cohesion of the EU 

Seems that Britain isn’t doing to bad on radical views compared to some ..... who would have thought it ?..eh 

So far our polititions aren’t advocating removal of the Gypsies, placing their kids who don’t attend school in care, etc , refusing entrance to migrants through the proper channels 

But wait we started a lot of it by refusing to take what the EU deemed to be our share , Germany opened their country and now it seems regret it 

Italy is back peddling , and others quite frankly refuse and have closed their doors 

Turkey, well many of theirs are becoming economic migrants , so paying them to take more?

I’m probabally much more interested in the social effect of immigration , rather than the political

I really don’t think that the average man in the street objects to immigrants , I think Britain has a history of multiculturalism , so we made a mistake re recognising the Windrush immigrants , but put it right , and of course they are British citizens , but some failed to register and become legally registered 

But does anybody recognise that the Brexit vote consisted of many immigrants against further immigration 

Now why was that ?

I would never dare to offer a reason 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

aldra said:


> But does anybody recognise that the Brexit vote consisted of many immigrants against further immigration
> 
> Sandra


It's well documented that many British citizens of Indian and Pakistani extraction voted for brexit in order to halt or slow immigration. Is that a case of getting yourself safely inside and then trying to bolt the door behind you do you think?

Yes the EU is finally addressing illegal immigration. The illegals concerned are from beyond Europe and we were free at any time to address immigration from there. Brexit won't change that, even though it seems that may brexiters thought otherwise. Do you remember Farage in front of the poster?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

erneboy said:


> It's well documented that many British citizens of Indian and Pakistani extraction voted for brexit in order to halt or slow immigration. Is that a case of getting yourself safely inside and then trying to bolt the door behind you do you think?
> 
> Yes the EU is finally addressing illegal immigration. The illegals concerned are from beyond Europe and we were free at any time to address immigration from there. Brexit won't change that, even though it seems that may brexiters thought otherwise. Do you remember Farage in front of the poster?


Actually I don't think so, to your first ?

Will I put my head on the line by explaining why I think that ?

I don't think so

are we free to address illegal immigration

I don't think so

We would need to seperate economic from fleeing for life

One economic, one humanitarian

One we understand , the other ?, well that will always tugg at heart strings

They could be ours

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

All part of the "new order" that so far seems to be mainly prevalent in the USA and the UK although its rising in Europe as well. Your either on one side or the other with no middle ground whatsoever. If you think the UK is ripping itself apart over Brexit the US is even worse over Trump. Locking up Asylum seekers and housing thousands of children in tents screaming for their lost parents in the 40 degree heat of the Texas summer. Lovely.  People are cheering him on though. Dont go browsing the likes of some of his supporters pages on Twitter unless you really have a strong stomach. 

I never knew there were so many disgusting people in the world.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No Barry it isn’t prevelant in the UK 
The new order
And it isn’t fair you site that 

We can be for or against Brexit

But it doesn’t make us American 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It really doesn't matter whether you think so or not Sandra, it's not what I say or think, a matter of record.

Once again Google is your friend. Why not check it out?

Google this phrase: South Asians voted for brexit to halt immigration


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Oh I know they did earnyboy 

Why? Well I could hazard a guess 

But I won’t 

Don’t you admire my restraint earnyboy 

Am I politically correct ? 

Or just pissed of with my views being skewed by those seeking to make a point 

Who knows ?

Sandra0


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I replied because you said you thought my first point a few posts back was incorrect. The bit where I said that Asians had voted for brexit becuase they had immigration concerns.

I'm pleased to note that you say you knew they did, but I'm not sure why you started out by challenging it.

Restraint, yes it's nice to see that. Keep it up please.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No, I never challenged it

You misunderstood what I said 

Restraint?, well maybe a bit should rub off onto you 

But then again you seem to relie on your two musketeers backing you
Or they on you 

It was ever thus 

Are you sure you don’t pay a retainer ?.

Or are they just.............

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Aw, you just spoiled it.

Here was I hoping you'd binned that crap. Oh well.


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

For the sake of my mental health I should NOT do what I am about to do. I have stayed clear of all threads of this topic and specifically Brexit - haven’t even read that one for months. But like an iron filing to a magnet - not a good simile but it will do - it’s after dinner and a very nice bottle of red, I am about to offer comment. 

I have a couple of points that you can all take aim at should you wish 😂

Firstly, Sandra is well capable of looking after herself, and I remember from a long ago childhood that it’s a no-win situation sticking up for someone else. I, therefore, do not consider that my comments are ‘sticking up for Sandra’ as I am perfectly sure that’s the last thing she would want, or need. But I am compelled to speak. Sandra is well-known. And without a shadow (got to get that one in) of a doubt, she is no racist. She is a lady with a big heart and a broad, accepting mind. I feel able to offer my opinion as so many others have offered theirs. 

I find it fascinating, although abhorrent, that anyone who poses a question mark over immigration is immediately labelled racist. 

My second point is the hooha/conflict/furore over immigration. I would like to pose a question. Brexit gained a majority vote, slim but nevertheless majority. (And in my mind’s eye I can see Barry already hopping up and down - won’t do your knees any good Barry,) whether we like it or not, agree or disagree, a large proportion of England live in conditions that no longer resemble England. The England of ‘I vow to thee my country’, Land of Hope and Glory. An Anglican country, a country who should not be feared to profess their faith as Christian, a country who teaches English to their pupils, who teaches English nursery rhymes to their pupils - I am sure you get the idea - or on the other hand ‘There’s none so blind as those who will not see’. 

Do any of you stop to think, why did the majority of the electorate vote for Brexit? 

That question invites a whole load of nonsense and abuse to which I shan’t pay attention. I will, however, pay attention to reasoned arguments and views.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Why would I binn it?

It reoccurs with monotonous regularity 

You hadn’t noticed ?

Come on earnyboy you pride yourself in noticing everything

And me, I have this unfortunately or brilliant memory for the written word 

Difficult in MSc degrees, I needed to to take care I didn’t commit plagiarism by mistake 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't mind whether you bin it or not Sandra. It doesn't make me angry and I don't bleat about being picked on or claim that you have a clique. 

If you want to carry on saying ridiculous and uninformed things I'll keep challenging.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Thank you Sal

No I am definately not racist

And you are right I need no one to stick up for me

I am quite capable of fighting my own corner 

I’ve fought it all my life

And mostly I’ve fought it on behalf of others

But I like everyone am grateful to know someone understands 

I think Britain is great, the reason many flocked to our shores, to become British 

To remain British 

And we don’t need to dilute ourselves 

Our history is less than great

Our history is more than great

We abolished slavery, gave women the vote and much, much more 

We voted Brexit 

And there is a conflict about immigration 

But there is a conflict about immigration throughout the EU, and the world

Immigrants are against further immigration 

Areas of our country are swamped and fighting to maintain their own traditional culture 

So is that Ok ?

Are they just a lost cause who need to accept the progress off time 

Their schools etc disappearing into a culture that is no longer theirs? 

Should they just move out and admit defeat ?

Some would say yes 

And of course there is room for every one

But multicultural?

No many areas are no longer multicultural, but uni cultural? both the ideal British villlage with the odd non white immigrant,

To the areas with the odd white British person 

But to say that?

Well only a racist would say that , Surely that’s not politically correct

It may be true , but who would dare to say there may just be a problem brewing 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Earnyboy 
No way could you say I have a clique
And I don’t bleat
Some have said some very insulting things 
But you have a couple of retainers
It’s ever been thus 
Maybe they just are in awe of you

Who knows 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Just as you like.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

@MyGalSal I don't think you will get any "nonsense and abuse" about your comments,though some may disagree................. but that is not "taking aim" as you see it.

Really look through the past posts...........check the posts with insults and personal abuse like "Webby1 watch my lips.F*** off" posted at least twice from Aldra. " Or W*nker from Kev.

But as you say Aldra can look after herself......"she has a big heart and a broad accepting mind" What you (and her) don't realise is that is the only reason I bother to argue with her (show me any of these "insults") There is no point having a discussion or argument with people who are "La La not listening"

You express a concern that large proportion of England live in conditions that no longer resemble England.....................but I don't want those conditions, it is absolutely NOT the country I want to live in. My children and my "coffee coloured" nieces and nephews live in a completely different world, which they are just as entitled to as you are to roll back to that golden age.

I believe that the majority of the electorate voted for Brexit because they were deceived and lied to about the advantages and particularly concerns about our Great Britain being swamped. I have no doubt that it is exactly the same process and deception that Hitler practised in Germany about the Jews so that he could build up his own power base. I believe a similar deception is going on in our Great country now, as a certain group of the rich and powerful free themselves from any European oversight and take back the "control and freedom" that will enable them run roughshod over the rest of us like in the Victorian Times that Reet Smug values so much.

I do hope you consider that to be "reasoned arguments and views"


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Did someone say something?

No they didn’t 

My mistake 

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Nice speeches but maybe some of you should have kept up with Brexit because if you think it was all about immigration when it was orchestrated by the rich and powerful Reek Smugs, media moguls and wealthy Brexit backers your sadly mistaken. Immigration was just vote fodder.

Careful what you wish for though especially if your concerned about our culture being overrun because all that is happening as our European friends who pretty much are the same culture turn their noses up at us and leave is that we now have to relax the immigration rules for none EU citizens and bring in more Immigrants from Asia and Africa. Its already happening in the NHS. Other sectors to follow no doubt. Thats why Vote Leave targeted the Asian communities.

Am I one of the Musketeers Sandra or on a retainer? Isnt that a bit similar to saying all Brexiteers are thick? Almost suggests someone like that cant form their own opinions.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

You can never be one of the musketeers Barry

When did you ever insult me?

We don’t see eye to eye on everything 

But love overcomes all, and your hug is amazing babe 

I respect your views and I haven’t really formed my own yet 

I think immigration will be the downfall of the EU 

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Another thing if you had all kept up with Brexit is that last month the EU tightened its rules on Free movement making it harder for employers to favour cheap labour from eastern Europe. Something the Brexiteers cited as a reason for voting leave when they claimed the EU was incapable of reform.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44293265


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Barry surely you wouldn’t endorse cheap labour

And of couse it’s outlawed

A bit late though dont you think 

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

aldra said:


> Barry surely you wouldn't endorse cheap labour
> 
> And of couse it's outlawed
> 
> ...


No I wouldnt. Fair price for a good days work. A bit late? Well I dunno, we havent left yet but I suspect your right. Most of the Brexiteers have not kept up with what is going on, that much is evident, a vote on the final deal with a remain option seems unlikely as nobody is listening. Ive worked hard for two years to try and get people to change their minds but they are not listening, least the ones that might be swayed are not so I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that its maybe what we deserve.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Or maybe

A future to embrace 

I don’t know either 

But I’ll go with OK

I trust Britain , our people, black or white , the British

Well be fine 

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

aldra said:


> Or maybe
> 
> A future to embrace
> 
> ...


Yeah of course! Everything will be fine.

Look who we have steering the ship! What could possibly go wrong?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I seem to remember many children being taken from their parents over the years for their dubious 'own benefit'.
Scotland has many such children where it was proved the social services acted incorrectly and abused their power.
I'm sure it happens in many state controlled societies and not always for the right reasons.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Poor Sandra, has someone been insulting you? What did they say?


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Poor Sandra, has someone been insulting you? What did they say?


We will never know Alan! This thread is going the same way as the "Manchester Explosion" thread from last year. A number of posters disagreed with Sandra's views which led to accusations of insults, bigotry, racism etc. Despite numerous invitations to point out where these had occurred, Sandra never did enlighten us, despite having a "brilliant memory for the written word"........

........and for the record, I've had no help or encouragement in posting this, nor am in collusion with, or indeed a retainer for, any other member>


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

It's all reminiscent of Hitler's Germany with families being separated as they got off the trains. 

For a child it must be devastating to be taken from your parents and then put in a cage.

You must ask were is the humanity in folk professing to be such great Christians to act in such a way ?

But maybe that's what's to be expected of the far right when they get power.

Such a shame we never learn from history.

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I often wonder Terry if it's just too convenient to relate certain things to Hitler and the Nazis. Not saying we should not learn from history's mistakes.
But although I might not agree with the trauma of separating families in any way, people do or should know the consequences of illegality of their actions.

It's been long debated about the children of illegals born in another country just to be given that countries nationality and the benefits that can bring. Right or wrong it's also the parents doing.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

raynipper said:


> I often wonder Terry if it's just too convenient to relate certain things to Hitler and the Nazis. Not saying we should not learn from history's mistakes.
> But although I might not agree with the trauma of separating families in any way, people do or should know the consequences of illegality of their actions.
> 
> It's been long debated about the children of illegals born in another country just to be given that countries nationality and the benefits that can bring. Right or wrong it's also the parents doing.
> ...


It's convenient because it fits.

I don't pardon the actions of the parents. But should a consequence be caging children especially as those who do it profess such Christian views, it doesn't exactly fit with the high ground their beliefs sit on therefore moves them to hypocrite territory, and that's the main point I'm making.

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think finding parallels in history is worthwhile.

Comparing modern behaviour to that of the Nazis needn't automatically mean people are comparing what they see going on today to the Nazi atrocities of WW2. The current similarities are to be found in the manipulation of public opinion and the behaviour of the Nazis in the early 30s as National Socialist developed and which when left largely unchallenged set the scene for what was to follow.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Poor Sandra, has someone been insulting you? What did they say?


Not that I'm aware of

Did I miss something ?

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

aldra said:


> Not that I'm aware of
> 
> Did I miss something ?
> 
> Sandra


I'm glad to hear they haven't, though I did, mistakenly as it turns out, think that you'd said they had.

Edit: I see now how my confusion arose Sandra. You singled Barry out as someone who'd never insulted you which led me to think that perhaps you thought that others had done so. However I'm extremely pleased to hear you confirm that nobody has. I didn't think they had and that's as it should be.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

dghr272 said:


> It's convenient because it fits.
> I don't pardon the actions of the parents. But should a consequence be caging children especially as those who do it profess such Christian views, it doesn't exactly fit with the high ground their beliefs sit on therefore moves them to hypocrite territory, and that's the main point I'm making. Terry


Thats the point Terry. They are both guilty of directly or indirectly using the kids as pawns in their 'game'.

Ray.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Good discussion, 38% of the voters in the US are Republicans, of those about 70 to 80 percent support Trump. And of those supporters I am sure there are many who do not support what he is doing to these children. He is a sicko who should be in prison for money laundering and other crimes. I can only hope he goes away sooner than later.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Trouble is John, like the UK and May, who do you think should be in charge? Could it be someone worse like those Clinton crooks?

Ray.
p.s. i'm not pro Trump.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Not sure you can compare May to Trump Ray. I'm just gobsmacked that it appears the USA are criminalising and prosecuting everyone now including it would appear those claiming asylum. Isn't that against international law?

I guess the problem is similar to Europe in that it's not easy to separate economic migrants from genuine refugee asylum seekers who are fleeing for their lives.

They can't win though. In Europe they were criticized for young men turning up on their own without women and children and called cowards and chancers yet here they are being criticized for bringimg their families with them. It's a tough decision I imagine. Do you leave them behind but in danger and try and get a foothold in a new country and get them in through official routes or take them with you and risk a dangerous journey and possibly being split up?

What's going on right now in the USA has shocked me to the core though and the awful comments on social media equally so.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think that if both Trump and May's governments are separating children from their parents we may quite reasonably criticise both.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Like her or loathe her this statement has some truth...……………………………


Katie Hopkins
‏More Breaking news: if you do not try to cross the border illegally, you will not be separated from your children. 

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

She left out rather an important bit. "By the UK or US Governments".

Why is it considered essential to keep them apart, do any of you know? Perhaps it's just to discourage les autres? If so I think that might be considered a cruel and unusual punishment by civilised people.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Seems Trump has done a U turn now. But now comes the problem of administering the mess.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> She left out rather an important bit. "By the UK or US Governments".
> 
> Why is it considered essential to keep them apart, do any of you know? Perhaps it's just to discourage les autres? If so I think that might be considered a cruel and unusual punishment by civilised people.


Cos they are chucking the adults in jail whatever their circumstances but cant lock the kids up so they put them in tents in a roasting desert I gather or that was the plan. 

Katie Hopkins Ray IMO is a horrible, bitter maggot of a women who has simply made a rather desperate career out of being as shocking and outrageously right wing as possible which is a shame as she was quite good on the apprentice but it was clearly a springboard to get herself noticed. She has a growing target audience to feed with her bile I guess.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I quite fancy her Barry. But then I like contentious.

Ray.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Nasty Mr Trump:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

barryd said:


> Cos they are chucking the adults in jail whatever their circumstances but cant lock the kids up so they put them in tents in a roasting desert I gather or that was the plan.
> 
> Katie Hopkins Ray IMO is a horrible, bitter maggot of a women who has simply made a rather desperate career out of being as shocking and outrageously right wing as possible which is a shame as she was quite good on the apprentice but it was clearly a springboard to get herself noticed. She has a growing target audience to feed with her bile I guess.


I think she was pretty obnoxious on The Apprentice.

Chris


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Never seen The Apprentice Chris.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> *I quite fancy her Barry.* But then I like contentious.
> 
> Ray.


 Jeeeez! You need help Ray. Even Alan is more attractive!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

ChrisandJohn said:


> I think she was pretty obnoxious on The Apprentice.
> 
> Chris


Yeah she was a bit but it was supposedly a business show and she got stuff done. Ive worked with people like her on and off and I prefer straight talking shoot from the hip people in business but she ramped it up off the scale once she became a "celebrity Troll". I suspect its all an act. She was obnoxious, your correct but not on the scale she is deploying now for her target audience.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Now that thread has been abandoned , shall we introduce gassing, gas tanks or awnings


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

BBC World News 

On American immigrant border policy 

“ no other country has a policy of seperating families who intend to seek asylum “ activists say 

“what the US is doing ,there is no eqivilent “

Michael Flyn , Exective director of the Geneva based Global Detention Project, focused on the rights of detained immigrants 

“There is nothing like this anywhere “

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> Jeeeez! You need help Ray. Even Alan is more attractive!


It's the Gemini in me Barry.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Mr Flynn is correct in so far as under Trump parents and children were being separated while in detention Sandra. Separation was specifically what you objected to. 

Mr Flynn's statement, which is addressing the means of detention (the monitoring of which is his special interest) the US was using, doesn't address the way immigrants are dealt with by the UK which does also result in parents and children being parted, just in a different way.

Does your quoting Mr. Flynn indicate that you still believe that the UK hasn't separated parents from children? I'd be very surprised if it did since you've had a couple of days to look it up.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess in the grand scheme of things separating families is quite minor when other states commit genocide, ethnic cleansing, religious persecution, public beheading, cutting off limbs, vanishing objectors and killing political dissenters. etc. etc. Which is going on now in dozens of countries.

OK it's not nice for the kids of these illegals but the parents should take the blame. Like all these male migrants fleeing war and persecution who have left all their women and children behind??

Yeah.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Kind of "By your actions you're forcing us to be cruel to your children. It's not our responsibility, you're making us do it" then Ray. I'd suggest that historically that's been a well used tactic which has been employed by all forms of repressive regimes to keep people in line.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm not condoning it Alan just trying to put it in perspective. There are many 'wrongs' out there and while separating families might be an emotive subject there are far worse life threatening abuses of humanity going on that are not highlighted like this (this week).

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

OK Ray, does there being many similar wrongs out there in some way justify a supposedly civilised country joining in? I'd have thought that we had a duty to resist wrongs wherever we see them, not least by not committing them ourselves. Can we credibly criticise others who are just following our example, especially in the case of the US and to a lesser extent the UK who've been rather inclined to assume the role of the world's police forces since WW2.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Nope, not justifying at all. Just putting it in perspective when thousands are actually being killed.
Every now and again we (the UK) are found out about our abuses and lots of compensation paid to appease the 'victims'. We are hardly able to crow holier than thou.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I guess in the grand scheme of things separating families is quite minor when other states commit genocide, ethnic cleansing, religious persecution, public beheading, cutting off limbs, vanishing objectors and killing political dissenters. etc. etc. Which is going on now in dozens of countries.
> 
> OK it's not nice for the kids of these illegals but the parents should take the blame. *Like all these male migrants fleeing war and persecution who have left all their women and children behind??*
> 
> ...


I guess you have to ask yourself what would you do in their situation. Im not to clued up on the migrant journey through central America but I am as regards their journey into Europe from the middle East and Africa and in particular Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and its not a journey to be taken lightly. Which is safer, Leaving them behind and trying to secure safe passage for them later or taking them with you?

Some say that the policy in Europe now of returning migrants to Libya or Turkey is inhumane as certainly in Libya there is a good chance they will end up abused or dead and Turkey is not exactly safe either. The answer is to stop them coming in the first place and thats not straight forward either.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I dunno what I would do in their situation Barry. None of us can imagine fleeing a tyrannical regime. But again many are 'economic' migrants and Mexicans seeing the easy life just across the border in the US will take the risk as so many have done before them. It has become a 'flood' as Cameron said.
Speaking to many Americans in the southern states they are somewhat resentful of the tactics used by their Mexican neighbours to avail themselves and their families to the services stateside. But there are legal ways and illegal ways and using their children to gain access is just as wrong as sending them back.

Thankfully I have never had to make that decision. Even though I have been 'detained' several times by the immigration thugs the US employs. 

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Actually ernyboy it was Trumps policy on the treatment of would be asylum seekers ,which included separation of children that I objected too 

Although asylum seekers may be interred in Britain they are interred as a family until their case is heard 

My son works with hundreds of men ( and women) seperated from their children , they committed a crime and were sent to prison, but I am guessing they were aware of that possibility before they committed the crime 

Illegal immigration is also a crime , niether you or I can illegally settle in any country we would wish 
without repercussions over time 

A few of the Kosovan Refugees applied for and were eventually granted permission to remain in Britain with their families , although most returned home to Kosovan, so I am aware of the process 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

OK Sandra, I see. We weren't discussing people who'd been sent to prison, though I can see that in order for you to maintain your position it's become essential for you to introduce that completely irrelevant point. 

It's bad if Trump separates the children of migrants from parents but quite right if the UK does it.

Immigrating illegally is, as you say, a crime but nobody, not even an immigrant, becomes a criminal till they've been convicted under the law no matter how obvious their guilt may seem to be to the public. 

Happily I'm pretty sure that immigrants aren't interred in either country.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

So at what stage do you consider it illegal ?

I’m merely pointing out that their are repercussions on illegal actions 

I doubt your apparent need to be thanked isn’t that relevant to the Brexit discussion either 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

The American process is very akin to “internment camps “

But Trump has revoked his policy of separation

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I dunno what I would do in their situation Barry. None of us can imagine fleeing a tyrannical regime. But again many are 'economic' migrants and Mexicans seeing the easy life just across the border in the US will take the risk as so many have done before them. It has become a 'flood' as Cameron said.
> Speaking to many Americans in the southern states they are somewhat resentful of the tactics used by their Mexican neighbours to avail themselves and their families to the services stateside. But there are legal ways and illegal ways and using their children to gain access is just as wrong as sending them back.
> 
> Thankfully I have never had to make that decision. Even though I have been 'detained' several times by the immigration thugs the US employs.
> ...


Just been reading up on illegal immigration to the US and it does seem that just over half of the estimated 11 million illegals there are from Mexico however it seems that these latest Caravans as they have been called are large groups (safety in numbers it seems) travelling up from places like Honduras and Guatemala. I dont know how accurate this report is but it sounds as equally dangerous and horrendous a journey to make as the one to Europe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ting-trumps-attention/?utm_term=.5739d997eaf7

So it would look like a similar situation. How do you sort out the genuine Asylum seekers from the economic migrants? Well in Trumps case he doesnt care what they are as his answer is to lock em all up and put the kids in cages or tents in the desert. Its just one more extreme policy that will divide a nation further with the hang em high brigade celebrating it with whoops of joy and the liberals hanging their heads in shame or protesting. Its relevant to us as its happening here. Two divided nations.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm not an expert on immigration law Sandra, despite your propensity for overestimating my field of knowledge by believing that I know everything. Which I must say is very kind of you, even if it is far too generous. But then this thread isn't about immigration law.

What it is about is bad treatment of immigrant families, which as even Donald Trump has now acknowledged, by reversing his policy, ought to include humane treatment.

When a thing becomes illegal is obviously at the time it happens, however that does not effect the point I was making which was that nobody becomes a criminal till they are found guilty of criminal activity. 

I have neither the need nor the expectation to be thanked Sandra. I was merely remarking that you didn't have the good grace to thank me for pointing out that the UK also separated families, which you obviously didn't know. 

Regardless of not having know that, and you still appear not to have bothered to check it out, you still seem to be trying to maintain that the UK doesn't break families apart in the application of it's immigration policy, which is exactly where this exchange began.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

barryd said:


> Just been reading up on illegal immigration to the US and it does seem that just over half of the estimated 11 million illegals there are from Mexico however it seems that these latest Caravans as they have been called are large groups (safety in numbers it seems) travelling up from places like Honduras and Guatemala. I dont know how accurate this report is but it sounds as equally dangerous and horrendous a journey to make as the one to Europe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ting-trumps-attention/?utm_term=.5739d997eaf7
> 
> So it would look like a similar situation. How do you sort out the genuine Asylum seekers from the economic migrants? Well in Trumps case he doesnt care what they are as his answer is to lock em all up and put the kids in cages or tents in the desert. Its just one more extreme policy that will divide a nation further with the hang em high brigade celebrating it with whoops of joy and the liberals hanging their heads in shame or protesting. * Its relevant to us as its happening here. Two divided nations.*


And it could get worse Barry. Imagine a soft Border with Eire after Brexit. That's a brand new channel for the traffickers. So what does the UK mainland do about that? Just another can of worms. :serious:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

747 said:


> And it could get worse Barry. Imagine a soft Border with Eire after Brexit. That's a brand new channel for the traffickers. So what does the UK mainland do about that? Just another can of worms. :serious:


Thats a pickle for you Brexiteers to sort out. Chop Chop! Clocks ticking.

They will have to be quite wealthy migrants then and already in Europe as I think a fake passport is about £10k and they will need one to fly into Eire. I do believe it is a route that some have taken though for a while but I Can find no figures as to actual numbers. We already have no border with Eire so if we dont have one post Brexit which is what the Government have repeatably promised how will things be any different? They may well be different at our south eastern Ports though like Dover if our customs checks are pushed back to Dover and chaos ensues. They wont need to bother flying into Eire.

I Dont want to turn this into another Brexit thread again if possible though.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Actually I was referring to the trump regime of seperating children at the border, in the opening post 

I have found no information that Britain does or is intending do so 

I didn’t expect to either 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The RoI already takes steps to prevent illegals entering the country and will have to extend them by introducing passport checks to include travellers arriving from the UK following brexit. EU and some other passport holders who's countries are part of the Schengen Zone will pass freely under existing arrangements the RoI has with the EU and UK passport holders will do so under the Common Travel Area arrangements which at present the UK seems content with. Others will continue to be subjected to checks on their status.

However the problem is not an Irish one since EU citizens will still freely be able to enter Ireland following brexit. It is a UK problem since it is only the UK which could be illegally entered should EU citizens travel across the land border to NI and or onward from there. The RoI would have no legal basis upon which to challenge any EU citizen travelling North since no RoI law would be broken if they did. It is most unlikely that the RoI would pass any law effecting who may or may not enter the UK from it's territory since, as part of the GFA, they changed their constitution to abandon any territorial claim to NI. Any such law enacted by the RoI would almost certainly be contrary to that undertaking and even if politicians in NI might felt the intention was helpful many would almost certainly resist it as unwarranted interference and a breach of the GFA. I think the chances of the RoI taking such a risk are approximately nil.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

aldra said:


> Is he completely mad ?
> 
> Seperating kids from families
> 
> Sandra


That's what you said Sandra. It's a pity if it doesn't convey exactly what you meant but you can't expect me to have know that.

You specifically and only referred to "Seperating (sic) kids from families" thus that is specifically and only what I addressed.

As I said the UK has also separated parents and children. If you can't find reference to it that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

You surprise me on two counts. Firstly, as I recall, you have several degrees which presumably involved a certain amount of research looking for very particular, specialist information, much of which I assume would have been a bit of a challenge to find. Google will turn this up for you instantly if you can think of a suitable search term.

Secondly it's been on the news quite a bit recently.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

It seems like a bit of this..









ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

the thread title ?

The question “is he .......

May have given a clue that I was referring to the separation/ removal of children at the borders 

And no I have found nothing to suggests Britain removes children from incoming immigrants as a matter of policy 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I haven't said that it was a matter of policy, merely that the UK also did it, neither did I specify, or even care where or at what stage it happened, once again I merely pointed out that it happened. Though if it helps it was in fact policy at Cedars, the detention centre near Gatwick for a while. Barnardos who had staff working in Cedars said this about it "As a child welfare organisation this concerns us, as we do not think a family split should be used for the purposes of effecting immigration enforcement."

If your concern was about children being separated from parents surely you are concerned in all circumstances except those where a child is at risk?

Anyway you now seem to accept that it does also happen in the UK, even if it isn't a mirror image of what Trump was doing, which at no stage did I ever suggest or claim that it was. If you still refuse to accept it you can refer to what Barnardos said, there are plenty of other stories out there were the result was separation, if you are capable of finding them. I'm done with trying to persuade you that an easily verifiable matter of fact is a matter of fact if you are not capable of researching it for yourself.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I always accepted that there were circumstances where immigrant children were seperated from families 

Non immigrant children too 

(After all I was raised with kids seperated from their parents ) 

Just not as a mirror image of Trumps inhumane policy which I was refering to 

Anyway he has been forced to abandon it now 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Earnyboy have you ever considered that your “ persuasion”

Almost always comes with a hint of distain 

“ You have degrees but are unable to research “ ect

Of course I am influenced by my experience of life

I’ve never claimed to be a dispassionate observer

We lived in Israel and applied every year for a temp residence

Three children were born there, attended Israeli school, their academic language Hebrew 

But we were not Jewish and could be refused a temp resident permit at anytime 

And we knew that , because we were not Israelis citizens , and that was the political law of the land 

So I expect we could have disappeared off the horizon , remained illegally 

Or as we did when the religious party gained control of the ministry of the interior in the coalaition decide to leave 

But you pick me up on almost everything I say 

Supported by your two retainers 

Ok musketeers 

And yes you pick up everyone else 

And later I’m sure you will tell me how irrelevant my post is

But, it’s off topic so it’s not really up to you to decide 

Sandra

is It?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I See Trumps made the Cover of Time magazine again. :-(

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ne-puts-trump-opposite-sobbing-child-on-cover


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

But he is making America GRATE again.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I see you have now moved on to attempting to anticipate what I might say and commenting on the replies you've made up it before I even see your posts Sandra.

I don't comment on anything you say except on political threads Sandra, that's because I'm active on those threads and challenge any view I disagree with, regardless of who the author is.

However if it pleases you to imagine that I dedicate my time one here solely to hanging on your every word you the just carry on with that.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Heavens I’m not that easily pleased, ernyboy 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Glad to hear it Sdarna.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Glad to heard it Snadar.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

So good you say it twice?

Well almost 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh yes Snrada.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I mean no insult if I spell your name wrong erne boy

For some reason it seems it should have an i in it 

So I shall just call you Ernest in future 

And you can call me anything you like, even No 44 :kiss:

Sdanra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Go on

You know you want to

I am your nemesis Or you are mine 

I struggle with politics , I’m probabally , possibally a waste of time

But I try, very trying 

And my name is ?

Do I really care 

Spell it as you will 

Everyone knows I’m Sandra

Or aldra

Or any permatrations 

For many years I was no 44, that was me ,no 44 , and I didn’t answer , why would I 

So I suffered the consequences 

To those who don’t really know me well 

Do they care what my name is ? 

To friends it’s sandra 

Not a name I would have chosen 

But heyits the name I was given 

Sandra or any permutation

Sandra


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