# Any Diesel Experts.....



## danielf (May 11, 2005)

Hi All,

I hope someone can help with a small issue I'm having with my 1.9 TD Boxer. Hopefully someone has cured it/seen it before....

Ever since we bought it in June it's always been a bit lumpy at cold on tickover. It feels like it is missing a beat....and a little smoky.

I put new glow plugs in when i serviced it in September as it was still on the originals.(Bosch ones Fitted).

This week however, and conicidenatlly??? after filling up with DERV at Morrisons) it's got worse. It starts fine, a little lumpy but no worse than usual. BUT as soon as the post heat on the glowplugs goes out it smokes and misses a fair bit.......It's like a naval battle. This only happens if I leave it ticking over whilst I scrape the windows... If I drive off straight away or give it some revs it's fine.

Some details..... Glowplugs before engine starts have 9 v at the busbar. Same at relay and Battery gets pulled down to the same. 
Once engine is running the bus bar is at alternator voltage, 14.1 to 14.55 v. Each glow plug has been tested and are only a month old. The post heat stays on for approx 3 minutes when engine is cold.

I did think that 9v maybe too low for preheat but the battery is fairly new, and seems to hold charge and turns the engine over. Any comments?? any one measured the voltage at their glowplugs??

Priming the fuel pump before starting doesn't make any difference, so ruling out fuel leaks....

The cold start lever on the fuel pump works, and is pulled across and raise the idle speed and seems to change the mixture as I can smell more diesel.

The only other possibilities i can think of are the injector timing is out a little bit, or the injectors are worn/dirty. I have tried a couple of cans of injector cleaner.

Van Details : Pug Boxer 1999 1.9 turbo intercooled XUD9TE. Bosch Fuel Pump and injectors.

Thanks for any tips....

Daniel.


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Its possibly an injector not spraying properly or more likely its weak on compression on one cylinder and cant fire correctly when cold, as soon as you raise the revs it will build compression and fire, when its hot it will fire the fuel much more easily at tickover.


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## 108370 (Nov 20, 2007)

You are obviously quite competent in being able to maintain the vehicle so please do not think I am teaching you to suck eggs , but , have you tried taking the vehicle up to high revs and holding for a while at this level.

I am sure you are aware that diesel engines in particular do not like short , cold running journeys and can quite easily ' foul up'

Sorry if you have tried this alrready but I think it is something worth trying before spending more cash.

p.s. make sure the engine is very well warmed before tacking to high revs


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*DIESEL PROB*

Sounds like maybe fuel pump. you have got new fuel and Air filters on! try adjusting the tick over and see if it Improves. mine sounds like a bed of nails on start up , but settles after a few revs


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Bang some GOOD injector cleaner (not the rubbish from Halfrauds and car accessory shops) through like http://www.click2add.co.uk/index.html?target=dept_4.html. The stuff actually works, ignore the instructions though and add it all to 1/8- 1/4 of a tank and ideally some in the fuel filter if that's being changed. Incidentally I take it the fuel filter is ok? An algae can grow in diesel so this may have gotten into the filter and is restricting the flow.

The cleaner should show an immediate improvement if the injectors are clogged and it costs about £12. Even if it's not the injectors it'd be beneficial in any case.

You need to eliminate the injectors from the mix before we go further.


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## danielf (May 11, 2005)

*Diesel Woes...*

Thanks for the replies...

All new filters... champion ones. I may try some more fuel injector cleaner when the tank get emptyer, it's full right now...

Must admit I am thinking it mght be injectors. The van has had a new cylinder head fitted by Essanjay in Poole before I bought it as the original cracked... So it should be ok on compressions.....I have the test after it was done and all psi's seem good... no head gasket leak as my sniffer kit hasn't detected anything....yet...

Holding the revs up for 10 seconds to around 1500, a guess as no rev counter, seems to cure it.

I try and use it for a good long run every week, but it is used as my only car..... I should really cycle to work as it is only 3.5 miles... but when it's cold and wet...... and the 'van is just sat there...I may take it for a run up and down the M3 at lunch to clear it out....


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## tuftey (Nov 21, 2008)

i was speking to my freind who is a very good diesel engineer here in manchester about my freinds renault master witch is the same nearlly as yours his being a t reg in summer starts no problem in winter wont start he replaced all the glow plugs new battery new injectors so i informed my freind yesterday about this problem and he said its defo compression no 2 ways about it because it will run all day long stop start when its got warm so he states it is because everything has expanded and got compression back 


he said either engine out and new 1 or rebuild or trade in if you dont want to spend all that money cos it wont go away


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## stoicbloke (Apr 29, 2007)

hi have you checked your tappet clearance generally the valve 'seats' in and closes the gap when the alloy head expands it creates clearance.
the tappets need shimmed as they are under the buckets this requires cam removal 
hope this helps


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## 114172 (Jul 8, 2008)

loose swirl chamber.???


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Put some Forte injector cleaner for deisel through it. Its what Taxi drivers use to get their emissions through MOTs


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## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Stick a bottle of Redex for diesel engines in the fuel tank and fill up to the top with diesel or at least 10 gallons (RTFM). Take her for a run to get nice and warm then rev her hard (without blowing the engine!) for about 30sec to a minute.

She should create an almighty smoke screen behind you for about a minute after which everything should be OK. If it isn't, then it tappets or injectors.


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## igglepiggle (Nov 7, 2007)

hi when you start up is it white smoke . when hot dose it disappear if so i would look at injector as i have same prom on start up on 2.5d


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## igglepiggle (Nov 7, 2007)

hi just anought through make sure all glow plugs are getting hot as i have had 2new 1 go down


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## Gomez (Sep 11, 2008)

Hi 
If memory serves me correct on your engine on the front of the injection pump there's a cold start mechanism. 
I cant seem to find a picture of it at the moment but as you look at the pump it's on the front with a cable attached to it. 
simply put the cold idle advance is worked by wax when the engine is cold it pulls on the cable & advances the tickover a little as the engine warms the wax melts & the cable goes slack. 

What you want to do is check that when the engine is cold the cable is taught if not then you may have found your problem. 
The other suggestions on this thread could well be right but I always start a the cheapest possible solution then if that don't work move to the next.


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## Rio (Oct 17, 2007)

*boxer*

Hi daniel , the recent cylinder head replacement was i assume due to overheating,
which may have resulted in the pistons getting too hot and picking up on the bores this makes the rings stick, affects compression and oil control, pull the dipstick out a little while running, if you get a pressurised stream of smoke have the compression checked by gauge, 
the pump timing is critical, i would expect the belt to have been replaced with the head job,its often not checked 
the knocking , rattling , is possibly dribbling injectors, it would cause the smoke build up that clears when you rev it, 
please dont keep using injector cleaner, it can cause pump wear it thins the lubricity of the fuel, one dose should have worked,
a diesel specialist will be able to check / service the injectors, check pump timing ,and compressions, because it starts and drives ok , its not likely to be too seriuos, pm me if you want my phone no , rio,


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## danielf (May 11, 2005)

*Diesel Woes...*

Thanks All for the replies....

I've ordered some forte fuel injector cleaner.... in the hope it might do something....

The cylinder head was replaced as it overheated because it was cracked.... but which came first?? This was done by essanjay in poole Curiously they haven't billed for a belt, but one was fitted not long before.... i've been told that some XUD engine did have cylinder head cracking problems....

There is a little smoke when you pull the dipstick out but not under a lot of pressure. It doesn't push any more out when you rev it.

If the rings bores are worn, how long and how much before a new engine???? I've looked a VEGE but there website is own.

It runs fine, starts well, it's just a problem if you leave it on tickover when cold. An misses a little bit on no revs It pulls along the motorway at 70 easy in fifth gear.

It due for a new cambelt soon, so the garage could check the timing then.....

Is it worth puling the injectors out an soaking them in redex as i've seen recommened somewhere else??

TIA,

Daniel.


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## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Careful when playing with Redex for cleaning it "eats" 8O certain metals very, very quickly. So a glass jar and keep everything else away from it.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I would run the Forte through it, if that doesnt work I dont think any kind of cleaner will help.


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## Rio (Oct 17, 2007)

*boxer 1.9 td*

hi daniel , the xu was a bit rattly in cold weather, the injectors screw in like spark plugs, if you can change glow plugs , this is just as easy, dont bend the pipes, take them to be tested , fit new washers, you need the big socket, the pump timing can be advanced slightly to make it crisper when cold, 
from your description its not in bad order, especially as it starts and pulls well, the dipstick test indicates no problems
when you get the timing belt and tensioner kit fitted, i would change the water pump , its an easy job while the belts off , an extra 15 mins tops, as it runs on the timing belt its a risk, for a small cost,
rio


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## danielf (May 11, 2005)

*diesel woes*

Thanks again all for suggestions...

Rio, I do get some smoke, you can feel air coming out of dipstick hole, not a forceful amount, but you can feel it.... The dipstick goes in the filler in this engine and the smoke only comes out if I unscrew the oil filler.

I'm starting to think that I maybe in for a expensive rebuild......

However I am wondering if it will get any worse, if it won't I can live with it as I plan on keeping the van for 10 years and it really only is a problem if I leave it on tickover when stone cold....

Maybe I should have kept my old Talbot....

Daniel


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

These guys are THE diesel experts http://www.feather-diesel.co.uk/

All the best

David


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## Rio (Oct 17, 2007)

*boxer 1,9*

Hi daniel , the xu engine is quite robust ,the head problem was an issue but rare on later engines, 
you will get air pressure from the dipstick and a little smoke on most engines, yours sounds normal, a bad one will blow a lot of oil into the air cleaner through the crankcase breather pipe, 
be careful with the injector cleaner it can damage the cam plate in the injector pump, once a year for mot should be enough, you can overdo it
morrissons and a lot of other supermarkets sell biodiesel this can get a bit unstable at low temperatures, causing rough running from cold,this will be more common in future, it wont hurt your td, i use it
i would try increasing the idle speed adjuster screw on top of pump resting on accelerator arm for now , then get the belt and pump timing checked later,
the hdi engine is based on the xu ,they have a good reputation[ i have a hdi in my suzuki]thats why i bought it
dont worry it isnt serious, dont rev it too hard and it will last a long time,
my 57 plate 1.9 vw van is very rough and smoky when cold, it clears when warm and is not broken, rio


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## danielf (May 11, 2005)

Thanks Again for all the replies...

Rio you've put my mind at rest somewhat.... I do tend to worry a bit, I was just thinking worst case.....I hate things that don't work properly and will pull it apart until it works....

I've upped the cold idle speed on the cold start lever, which has made a small differnece, and no huge amount of oil in the breathers and air filter.

It started fine this morning, still lumpy. I may go back to Shell diesel for a while and see what happens...

Thanks,
Daniel.


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## cris15 (Aug 7, 2007)

Hi All
Hi Dan try filling up at b.P or esso my fiat has much the same problem with Morrison’s fuel , smokes a lot when accelerating hard, and power is very down with a lumpy tick over.
It is apparently well known that Citroen’s don’t like esso fuel but mine runs fine on it.
Since realising the Morrison’s fuel problem I clocked the mileage on the trip computer and I get 6 mpg more from esso, so I guess you get what you pay for.
I think different fuels contain different additives and some engines are fussier than others.


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