# Swift User Group Meeting Jan 20th 2009



## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Yesterday (Jan 20), I and a few others from this Forum attended a meeting arranged by Swift. For this I would like to thank Peter Smith and his colleagues for making us most welcome.

The meeting provided an over sight of the design and development of Motorhomes and trials and tribulations of providing Customer Care and keeping everyone happy.

There is no doubt that Swift are listening carefully to their customers and are intent on improving their product design and relationship between customers and dealers. Time ran out before I could pose questions on what was being done to improve quality during the manufacturing stage. I don't doubt though that this is being looked at, although there still seems to be a reliance on dealers performing a PDI. While a PDI is good to ensure that the vehicle is clean and presentable I don't think it should be used as a 'catch all' for faults. Vehicles should simply not leave the factory with inherent faults.

As far as Warranty issues are concerned, while the first line of action should always be to go to a dealer, Swift acknowledged that if contacted directly they will do what they can.

The Manufacturer - Dealer relationship is still one area that I think needs to be addessed. Some dealers appear to be doing harm to the manufacturers reputation, unjustly.

How does this relate to my own experiences? This is pure speculation on my part but back in 2006 Swift moved their manufacturing facilities to a larger single unit. Some dealers and mechanics I have spoken to said that Swift product in 2006 was very problematical. When was my MH built - late 2006 and I took delivery in Feb 2007. The quality cannot be put back into my vehicle. I just have to hope that now my last list of problems have been sorted I'll see no more - only time will tell.

From a customer care perspective, I've had a a number of contacts directly with Swift and I have to say that there has been an improvement over the two years I've had my vehicle. Its not been perfect and things still fall through the cracks. Communication internally and between customer and dealer fell down at times.


Am I convinced that future Swift product will be better designed and produced? - Yes.
Am I convinced that future Swift Customer Care will improve? - Yes.
Will Swift always get it right all the time - No one will.

Here's the important one to consider - how many other manufacturers have you come across that are as open as Swift?

Colin


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

Colin,

Thanks for posting this. It's a shame you didn't have enough time to deal with all the things you would have liked. Nevertheless, it's a good start from Swift and hopefully this will not be the last time such a meeting can take place.

Again, thanks to all concerned for the time and effort they gave to this.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Thanks for that Colin

This comment you made below is one big reason why we are purchasing a Swift Group van

Here's the important one to consider - how many other manufacturers have you come across that are as open as Swift? 

Richard..


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree totally, Swift are unique in the quality of care that they are striving to deliver and the manner in which they are responding.

I am not aware of any other manufacturer contributing to the forum or being willing to come out in the open and admit when problems exist and share what they are doing to solve them.

Having such a meeting is unique, we all hope that it will become an established part of customer care throughout the industry.


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

One thing that I do remember from way back when Swift first stuck their heads in here was that, I think it was Peter Smith, said that before reading what people here were saying, they ( Swift ) considered their customers to be the dealers.

I think that has changed in a very significant way.

Harvey


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## HARRYH (May 18, 2005)

Hi
Pity about the lack of Question time.
I think all the signs are there that Swift do try their best.
None the less Dealer choice is in my experience equally if not more important than maker. A good dealer will make sure that you as costumer gets the Motorhome in AI condition by not excepting unfinished units or units with known defects. He will also have model expertise and be able to liase between Maker & costumer on aftercare.
Swift need to get their Dealers to come on the web site and tell us why we should buy a Swift from them.
Taking my old MH around all dealers for the best priced trade-in gives me no indication as to the quality of the finish & service on the new MH Im buying but how else can you choose?.
May be as a group we could star rate Maker and Dealer on our own experieces?
Are there any true single maker dealerships? 
Harry


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Colin,

It was after the Swift visit that myself and Jan decided to swop our Hymer for a Swift. Peter and the team gave us the assurance that things were/had changing/changed. We believed them and considered all the plus and minus points before changing.

Was no minutes taken from the meeting, as I think was suggested?

Maybe a customer Q + A on this site or Swift (Swift have a Q + A but it is not comprehensive. Just a thought!

Steve


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> how many other manufacturers have you come across that are as open as Swift?


None of the manufacturers were very open in the early days of "juddergate" when we were trying to find out about the x250 "issues"

Come to that, they still aren't-same with the Dealers.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

HARRYH said:


> Hi
> Are there any true single maker dealerships?
> Harry


We are *totally Swift* and have been for many years now and no other converter apart from used.

Peter


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> HARRYH said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


But you are considering changing that are you not?

Harvey


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

ingram said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> > HARRYH said:
> ...


Harvey

At the moment its doubtfull

Peter


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## Tailendcharley (Apr 19, 2007)

I am fast becoming very impressed with all the feedback regarding 'Swift'.

It is such a pity that they build their M/H's on Fiats.

Does anyone know whether or not they use other base vehicles.


Regards

  Smithy :wink: :wink:


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Tailendcharley said:


> I am fast becoming very impressed with all the feedback regarding 'Swift'.
> 
> It is such a pity that they build their M/H's on Fiats.
> 
> ...


They only use Fiat. From memory someone else asked that and Peter replied he was not considering changing.

I love my Fiat by the way.

Steve


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Fiat*

...and I love my Fiat too - it goes likes the clappers.

Russell


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## suffolkian (Jul 25, 2007)

and me, and me

Steve & Ian


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

... and me. Can't wait to get out in it again  Smooth, economical, powerful, easy to drive - what's not to like? :wink:

Gerald


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## Tailendcharley (Apr 19, 2007)

8O 8O Juddergate..................................



Regards

  Smithy :wink: :wink:


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Tailendcharley said:


> 8O 8O Juddergate..................................
> 
> Regards
> 
> Smithy :wink: :wink:


What about it? So far no problems, if I do get a problem then I will get fix done. 
Van is brill

Steve


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

SandJ said:


> Tailendcharley said:
> 
> 
> > 8O 8O Juddergate..................................
> ...


Couldnt agree more

Wups

I've had a Merc ......very expensive to service

Trany good to drive other than 1st gear

New Fiat brill we love it


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Harry....

There was a lot of time allocated to Questions but eventually we all had to go home.

Choice of Dealer is important but I will always maintain that the product from the factory has to be the real deciding factor.

Bad Product - Bad Dealer = Disaster
Bad Product - Good Dealer = Not Good.
Good Product - Bad Dealer = Not Good.
Good Product - Good Dealer = We win.

Colin


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> May be as a group we could star rate Maker and Dealer on our own experieces?


You can already rate dealers service in your experience etc in our Feedback Directory


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> So far no problems, if I do get a problem then I will get fix done


As Fiat has just told us all- you'll only get a fix done (at no cost) if you've informed Fiat-and they ask you to check for judder before you inform them.

May be too late (and an expensive job) if you wait for problems


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## 111728 (Apr 28, 2008)

Colin

Do we know the percentages to the four groups you quote?


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

I have owned quite a few Swift's and will continue to do so. The level of service from Swift is the best in the industry IMHO. However, I do feel that the dealer could be a little better informed and be a little more caring. The dealer I have used for my last 2 purchases seems to have very little technical knowledege of the product. At times I have had to explain to them how things work.

I might look at an other dealer next time I change, but they are so close and handy if anything goes wrong.

With this van, very little has gone wrong and I have fixed it myself with the excellent Customer Service given direct from Swift.

Kath Powell and her team deliver a great friendly service and nothing seems to much trouble for them. Dealing with Kath makes you feel part of an extended family, she really does care.

Stewart


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Saracen....

Sorry but I don't understand your question. Percentage of what for instance? These are just my listing of the possible scenarios.

The last being that everyone wins - Customer, Dealer and Manufacturer.

Colin


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## roger-the-lodger (Apr 21, 2008)

I thought the meeting went well and should have helped Swift make further improvements, particularly in customer service.

There were two main sources of questions - (1) product quality (2) the dealer model and how it might be improved to work better for end customers.

Personally I didn't think we identified many specific actions for improving product quality; there seemed to be a level of acceptance that the product and its supply chain is complex and that while the mean quality standards may be quite good, room for improvement remains, because the statistical results suggest an ongoing proportion of products with post-delivery problems. To be clear, this wasn't stated in such bald terms, but I felt that was the view of the meeting, especially among the users and to a lesser extent perhaps on Swift's part. My comments should not be taken as a view that Swift is complacent - on the contrary, in a very difficult market I'm sure Swift is very concerned to improve quality further. Swift shared some lessons learned, especially relating to suppliers, and indicated some actions already in hand such as sourcing more locally and bringing some infeed processes in-house.

But there is more work to do here, and if there are further user meetings this would be an area to focus on in more detail.

I think we did better in the dealer-related discussion. This included some clarification of the habitation warranty situation. My interpretation of Swift's posistion was that only the supplying dealer is mandated to undertake warranty work; however if an end-customer contacts Swift with a genuine and convincing reason for difficulty in using the supplying dealer then Swift will give as much assistance as it can to arrange for the work to be done by another dealer more acceptable to the end-customer. Again, to be clear, the phrase "genuine and convincing" is mine - that's my interpretation of the spirit of what was said. Various scenarios leading to this situation were discussed, including a person relocating to a different area, a dealer proving less than competent, the end-customer buying from a dealer distant from his or her home etc. I got the impression that the last reason would get less sympathy than the first two (on grounds of _caveat emptor_); Swift would make strong efforts in either of the first two cases (relocation, dealer incompetence). But this seems to be an unwritten policy rather than embodied in any documented terms and conditions. Essentially if you have problems with warranty work by your supplying dealer you have to contact Swift and convince them of your situation - they will then try to help. I understood too that as a facility of last resort, Swift will repatriate a vehicle to the factory for repair if a dealer fix is deemed impossible.

There was widespread agreement around the table (users and Swift) that dealer competence, skills, responsiveness to customers (service) and attitudes all demonstrated much inconsistency across a spectrum from excellent to unacceptable - everyone agreed too that this is a serious problem for Swift and the end-customers.

The other dealer-related problem identified was that of the 3-way communication between Swift, the dealer and the end-customer, especially in a "problem" situation. We all agreed this left much to be desired. I put forward an idea involving a "Support" section on the Swift website, not only for useful post-delivery (non-sales) information but also, and crucially for proper logging and management of problems, with allocation of "log numbers" and progress of each problem to closure. It would be essential to link this process to a nominated dealer. Swift already has a separate dealer support website - through this it would be possible for each dealer to see all logged problems assigned to that dealership for fixing. It needs simple linking between the dealer and customer websites and a common area for problem management data. Hardly rocket science and (I think) not expensive to put in place. I agreed to send Peter a concept-level design and I'm in the process of doing that.

This would give Swift the ability to track, on an exception basis, problems that are taking too long to fix. Comments from the end-customer at any stage after logging a problem would be allowed and seen by the nominated dealer and by Swift customer service. Kath's fuction would be able to be more pro-active and less reactive. Added benefits would be improved information about repeating problems and about dealer performance.

Because there is more work to do on improving consistency of both product quality and dealer quality (I'm personally sure that end-users can help in both aspects) I would welcome more user meetings of this sort; indeed it would be good if they became a regular feature of Swift's service. We might even get to the stage when a few dealers could attend too! That might get lively. :wink:

We also had a session on future design ideas and I thought this was very fruitful with lots of interest and contribution. Some ideas Swift already had in hand, others were new to them.

Although no formal minutes were taken as far as I know, copious notes were being made by the Swift team, not only in the design ideas area but also relating to problems and service.

The meeting was worth getting up at 5am to drive to Hull as far as I was concerned and the buffet lunch was pretty decent too! 

Roger


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Sounds like Swift are on the ball with dealing with customer issues and complaints but (and its a big but) there are many issues which should be caught on the production line. In that way they wouldn't need to be dealt with after sales. e.g. incorrect wiring of reversing cameras.


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Roger

Thank you for a very informative posting.

Steve and Jan


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## roger-the-lodger (Apr 21, 2008)

AberdeenAngus said:


> ...there are many issues which should be caught on the production line. In that way they wouldn't need to be dealt with after sales. e.g. incorrect wiring of reversing cameras.


I'm in no doubt that there are such issues. I do not have statistics to quantify the current scale of build quality problems; by *hearsay* Swift has improved this aspect of its performance considerably and rates fairly well against industry norms, but none of that would console the end customer who is unlucky enough to buy product that has fallen into the wrong part of that probability distribution. I think it used to be called the Friday afternoon model in the auto industry. I did a Swift factory tour and saw most of the usual factory QA techniques in use; the processes seemed well-controlled and the factory was very "tidy" - yet problems still happen that can be traced to the build rather than to suppliers.

I think it's harder for end-customers (users) to improve this aspect of performance than it is for them to improve service performance; that's probably why (IMO) the meeting made more progress in the latter area.

Roger


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Without rose tinted glasses I see that the 2009 MMM awards for the best manufacturer are as follows:-

Gold......Romahome

Silver....Murvi

Bronze..Auto-Trail

I applaud Swifts efforts and hope that one day they will aspire to be present in the winners list :wink:


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## roger-the-lodger (Apr 21, 2008)

EJB said:


> Without rose tinted glasses I see that the 2009 MMM awards for the best manufacturer are as follows:-
> 
> Gold......Romahome
> 
> ...


I would be surprised in the extreme if Swift does not so aspire. All publicity is good publicity.

Firstly as one of those nasty cynics I always harbour suspicions about magazine (and other media) awards. I'm not suggesting actual corruption, you understand, but more that the process leading to the result is not always that obvious to the reader.

But let us be generous and presume that the awards are throughly well-deserved. The fact remains that folk choose a motorhome on many criteria among which build quality and service are but two. Actual product design and layout are very important to most. As newbies we looked at all three of the award-winning makes. Romahome and Murvi simply don't have a vehicle coming anywhere close to what we needed. Autotrail was a serious contender for our requirement and were just pipped to the post on specific design features. By hearsay and forum feedback I don't believe our lottery chances on product quality would have been significantly better with them than with Swift. If we'd gone with hearsay and been more prepared to compromise on features and layout we might have ended up with AutoSleepers who, like Swift, didn't get an MMM award, from what your say.

By the way, this was a Swift user-group meeting. There were several spectacle wearers but I didn't notice a single example of eye-wear that was rose-coloured. If wearers of such accessories post on this thread, that is hardly the fault of those who attended the meeting. 8O

All that said, thanks for a moderately provocative post EJB. It all helps to brighten up life in these gloomy times. 

Roger


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> The dealer I have used for my last 2 purchases seems to have very little technical knowledege of the product. At times I have had to explain to them how things work.


Stewart- what, you mean they don't make reference to any reverse judder or don't accept Fiat's admission that there's a design fault? :wink:

If that's the case then I think that's about par for the course


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