# My neighbour plans court action over my motorhome.



## 104481

Took delivery 6 weeks ago of brand new motorhome and our neighbour has said he wants to take us to court. There is a restrictive covenant which forbids caravans but doesn't mention motorhomes. Our motorhome is parked on our property off road but he has started to photograph it and us (on occasions) day and night. He keeps calling it a caravan but we keep stating that our motorhome has a completely different status in law. My log book says it is a private HGV. I am so hoping we are right - he dialed 999 this evening to ask the police to take it away!

I am interested in finding out if you know of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted by a neighbour in the civil courts after shelling out on our lovely new motorhome I don't really want a court battle!

Any help appreciated,

Coco.


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## carolgavin

Found this
Your query raises some interesting issues.

1. Where did these deed restrictions originate?

Did they originate from some sort of agreement between the original purchaser of the property and the builder?

2. If somewhere down the line, the original purchase-agreement is breached, with whom has it been breached?

If the agreement is simply a property restriction implemented by the initial vendor/builder in order to attract new purchasers, then any violation of such agreement would have to be prosecuted by the initial party to the contract: the builder. Having sold all of the properties in your area and moved on to a new endeavour, what could the builder possibly gain by engaging in litigation over a matter in which he no longer had any interest??

3. If the laws of your unstated jurisdiction permit your neighbours to enforce the terms of the deed, then it would be necessary for the complainant to commence a civil action against you. And that's where these mysterious complaints tend to evaporate. Whiners and complainers, while having the balls to make a lot of anonymous noise, seldom have the guts to face you in court, or even allow their names to be revealed and be known as the neighbourhood grinch/bitch.

HERE


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## DubPaul

the mind boggles!!!

these people need to get a life.

sorry for your troubles.


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## 103356

Coco said:


> Took delivery 6 weeks ago of brand new motorhome and our neighbour has said he wants to take us to court. There is a restrictive covenant which forbids caravans but doesn't mention motorhomes. Our motorhome is parked on our property off road but he has started to photograph it and us (on occasions) day and night. He keeps calling it a caravan but we keep stating that our motorhome has a completely different status in law. My log book says it is a private HGV. I am so hoping we are right - he dialed 999 this evening to ask the police to take it away!
> 
> I am interested in finding out if you know of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted by a neighbour in the civil courts after shelling out on our lovely new motorhome I don't really want a court battle!
> 
> Any help appreciated,
> 
> Coco.


We have a similar covenant on all the properties in our small close of 12 houses. The wording on ours is "caravans or similar items". While not mentioning motorhomes specifically, the covenant is quite clear that such vehicles should not routinely be parked in full view of the neighbouring properties. There are 2 of us who own MHs and neither of us would consider parking them on our drives permanently, as we wish to retain good relations with our neighbours. While it may not be in the specific, it certainly would be against the spirit of the covenant. The only MH that might be considered as not coming under the spirit of the covenant would be one that is small enough to be used regularly as your primary means of transport.

Unless yours falls into the latter category, then why, knowing that there is a covenant against such vehicles, do you think it is fair for you to ignore it? Such restrictions are normally there for a reason. While the police will not get involved since it is a civil matter, courts have been known to uphold such covenants, and you would likely have to prove that your MH was not just used for holidays, etc, in the same manner as a caravan. The fact that it falls into a different licencing category is rather incidental - it is the use that would have to be proved to be different (as indicated above). Why can't you find a nearby storage facility and avoid all the hastle?


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## 88826

It's a sign of the times unfortunately. Live and let live is no longer recognised by some people. I would be interested to know what the reaction was by the police after being contacted by your your "friendly" neighbours. Did they speak to you or advise you that you 'may' have to move it. Personally, without knowledge of the existing covenants, I hope that you are allowed to keep your motorhome on your _*own *_property. Have you contacted other nearby residents to seek thier views on your dilemma? Perhaps your neighbours would be be more tolerant if they had a mobile telephone mast erected near thier property.


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## 92180

Was the regulation inserted as a condition of planning. If so you would need to watch out for the regulation that covers just about everything 

"detrimental to the local amenity"

I have in the past had to deal with people using front gardens as car parks and parking white works vans within an area where they were restricted. On every occasion the planning law has been upheld and the vehicles have had to be removed. - as part of my job - not me complaining.

The exception is usually where the vehicle can be parked level to or behind the building line.


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## 103356

carolgavin said:


> Found this
> Your query raises some interesting issues.
> 
> 1. Where did these deed restrictions originate?
> 
> Did they originate from some sort of agreement between the original purchaser of the property and the builder?
> 
> 2. If somewhere down the line, the original purchase-agreement is breached, with whom has it been breached?
> 
> If the agreement is simply a property restriction implemented by the initial vendor/builder in order to attract new purchasers, then any violation of such agreement would have to be prosecuted by the initial party to the contract: the builder. Having sold all of the properties in your area and moved on to a new endeavour, what could the builder possibly gain by engaging in litigation over a matter in which he no longer had any interest??
> 
> 3. If the laws of your unstated jurisdiction permit your neighbours to enforce the terms of the deed, then it would be necessary for the complainant to commence a civil action against you. And that's where these mysterious complaints tend to evaporate. Whiners and complainers, while having the balls to make a lot of anonymous noise, seldom have the guts to face you in court, or even allow their names to be revealed and be known as the neighbourhood grinch/bitch.
> 
> HERE


While these restrictions are initially imposed by the builder, many have been imposed by the local planning authority as part of the planning permission. In these cases it is a requirement that the covenant is passed on in the sale documents (i.e. the new purchaser agrees to uphold the original restriction). Anyone in the same group of houses would be able to bring an action to have the covenant enforced in law, since the owner had agreed to it as a condition of purchase. In our small development not only do we have a restriction on caravans, etc, but also where we can site TV antennas, including satellite dishes. In all the houses such antennas are either inside the attic, or sited in concealed locations below the roofline. As a result, the view is not ruined by a sea of aerials and dishes hanging from the chimney stacks, as can sometimes be seen. It's one reason why we enjoy living here, and so do all our neighbours. Why is that a bad thing?


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## Grizzly

My understanding of these covenants is the same as that of carolgavin. They are taken out by the estate builders to help keep the estate "tidy" until all the houses are sold.

We have one that forbids us to put up satellite dishes or TV aerials and my mother was not allowed to hang out washing ! Once the original estate has been sold however and the builders have lost interest the covenant has no force- unless, an unlikely event, the builders choose to enforce it.

If your MH blocks the light from your neighbour or makes it difficult for them to get into and out of their drive or garage then they might have a case but on pure aesthetic grounds I think not. 

G


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## Superk

I'm with Chrisdy on this one - covenants are there to maintain the environment you bought into - you seem to wan't to get around the covenant by saying it's not a caravan but a private HGV - so would it be OK for your neighbour to park his furniture removal HGV in his drive if that was his trade?


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## sallytrafic

One wrinkle is that local government makes no distinction between any size of motorhome; this is their definition of a caravan:

"Caravan means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, "

see this thread and others >click<

Regards Frank


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## klubnomad

When I bought my last house in 83 - I sold it last year - there was a covenant saying "No TV Aerials on the outside walls" I put up a sky dish which is not technically an aerial but a satellite receiver. I argued this with my neighbours and told them to take me to court if they wanted it gone. They never bothered but got sky fitted soon after. I didnt have any bother after that.

The covenant on your house could be interpreted in many ways. I would guess that your neighbour has the Green Eyed Monster.

Dave

656


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## aultymer

"There is a restrictive covenant which forbids caravans but doesn't mention motorhomes" 

. 
Whilst I have every sympathy over your choice of neighbours you must be aware that what we call 'motorhomes' are often referred to in law as 'motorcaravans'. I would not therefore depend too much on the defence that the covenant ,which you must have agreed to, only includes 'caravans'. 

Good luck, but find a storage site just in case!


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## Grizzly

http://www.wearvalley.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1302&forumid=29&threadid=3020

Interesting reading and relevant to this question.

The police should not be involved as it is a civil matter.

G


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## 100836

offer to buy a rusty old car and park it right outside his house where you are entitled to in order to make it difficult but not breaking any laws!

would that help, maybe maybe not, but it might make you feel a lot better!

on a serious note i hope you manage to work it out amicably as nothing worse than a fewd with the neighbours


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## annetony

I think they are definitely jealous :wink: some neighbours just like to complain about everything 8O , Barbara & Terry had one like that living next door to them, she was elderly and accused them of allsorts of things, she took photos of Tony when he was building their extension, (he just posed for the picture), called the police saying they had pinched her plants through the fence, and was last seen taking bricks out of a retaining wall saying she wasn't going to be responsible for holding up their soil :roll: , something like straight jackets spring to mind 8) , Terry even went round to sort out her leak in the bathroom after all the trouble she caused them, 8O I really wish you luck and hope you get all this sorted to your satisfaction, maybe you could park on the road after all you pay road tax :lol: :lol: 

Anne


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## Brock

Covenants are there to protect the general look of the estate which in turn can affect property values. Without knowing the detail of where you park your motorhome and how it looks, I cannot comment whether neighbours will see it as an eyesore and thus adversely affecting their property values. Our last house had a covenant on it and I successfully argued that it did not cover motorhomes. However, when I stood in our neighbour's house and looked at this giant white slab on our drive reflecting sunlight into their living room, I could understand their concerns.

Our current house has the standard covenant for caravans but before we bought the house, we checked with the builders who said it covered motorhomes. Fortunately, I was able to comply with the covenant by putting the van up the side of the house behind the building line.

One of our previous homes had a planning restriction on usage of the property and the local Council enforced this against a neighbour who was running a business from home even though nobody complained. Your restriction could be part of planning regulations and if this is the case, you can expect the Council to enforce them.

Two things you can consider. Has your neighbour broken any covenants eg erected a satellite dish which are often 'banned'? This would give you a counter argument. Does he understand that he is in dispute with you and thus has to declare this dispute to potential purchases of his property?

Your neighbour has not gone about this in a reasonable way. The temptation to thump him must be strong. However, having specialised in litigation for 16 years, I learned at least two things. One is never fight on principles no matter how great the sense of injustice, and secondly no matter the strength of a legal argument, nobody can second guess with confidence how the local court will view it - some judges seem to have a mind of their own - so negotiated settlements are best.

Of greater concern than your legal position is the damage to good neighbourhood relations. If this neighbour is generally agreeable, then I would suggest you try and find a common ground like we did with our last house. Despite being in the right of being able to park the motorhome on our drive, we kept it in storage most of the time and only occasionally left it on our drive overnight. One thing to remember is that I believe a motorhome stored in a secured compound is less likely to be damaged or stolen than one parked on your drive. Depending on area, secure storage can cost as little as £260 pa which is a small price to pay for neighbourhood relationships and is not significant compared to the overall running cost of a motorhome.

How you deal with this could define your long term relationship with all your neighbours. A conciliatory approach to a reasonable neighbour could enhance your local standing. Similarly, a polite but firm response to the local bully could do like wise.

I am sorry you have hit a problem with your pride and joy. It is a salutary lesson to other newbies to ensure they have somewhere to park a motorhome before they buy one.

I wish you well and hope you find the morale strength to overcome this challenge so you can join the rest of us in stress free motorhoming.


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## 101411

Oh Dear :roll: 

Why cant people just live and let live. Is the neighbour elderly? It seems like he is jealous and a bit sad with nothing better to do with his time. 8O 

Have you actually gone round and tried to speak to him? There must be some common ground maybe a higher fence or some tall trees?? :wink: 

At the end of the day its your house and your land. Why should you not be able to keep a perfectly legal vehicle on your own land? Ok so it big, but so what. Seems to me you should give him a fiver and tell him to go and buy himself a life!!! :lol: 

Good luck with it


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## JockandRita

Hi Coco,

Perhaps your neighbour would prefer that it was legally parked on the public highway......right in front of his house. Probably an option that he has not considered, that you might choose. :wink: 

Would he accept an invitation to "mutually resolve" the situation over a glass of beer/wine?. 

One downside to permanently parking the MH on the driveway, is that when you go out in it, you have advertised that the house is now likely to be unoccupied.

Secure storage has many advantages, especially if is not miles away.

I hope that you and your neighbour are able to resolve your differences.

Jock.


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## 104481

Thank you all for your comments. I didn't want to be too long-winded in my original posting but there are some additional points worth making.

I have checked with the planning department at the local council and they can't see an issue with our MH. None of my neighbours have to look directly at it and the only light it blocks is ours. We ae tucked away in a corner of the estate so are not 'in your face' so to speak. The community police officer I spoke to in connection with him photographing us said that as far as the law is concerned we are allowed to park it where it is.

There are other multiple breaches of the covenant such as satelite dishes and property being rented (residents are not supposed to do this). The neighbour in question lives next to a rented house with a satelite dish so I can only conclude he doesn't like motorhomes.

As for the issue of caravans devaluing property - I am sure a neighbour dispute will cost more in the long term. 

The neighbour enfringes his parking rights because he has a folding caravan parked in his garage! I suspect he will get rid of it in order to normalise the situation before he takes us to court. 

There are 300,000 motorcaravans in the UK and I am sure they can't all be stored. I pay very high rates and storage feels like just another tax. I also feel that we should all be entitled to enjoy our possessions peacefully. 

Coco


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## JockandRita

Coco said:


> I also feel that we should all be entitled to enjoy our possessions peacefully.
> 
> Coco


That says it all really.

Jock.


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## 100852

If your neighbour has started to photograph you, your wife and your motorhome and has caused you some distress to the point of being harassed, then he is committing a criminal offence under Sec 5 of The Public order Act. Considering you are a person of reasonable firmness and that your neighbours actions are causing you harassment, alarm or distress which he obviously is, then please take a look at this web site.

http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q153.htm

or for more info

SEE HERE


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## bigfoot

Try bagpipe lessons AT HOME!


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## 104481

Thank you Banjo Bob for the last piece of advice. I have been on to the website and downloaded the information which seems highly appropriate. 

The neighbour in question is not a reasonable man and has been walking on to my property to inspect his water water inlet with much greater frequency of late. When I spotted him yesterday I politely suggested he contact the water board if he is having problems. He then brought the conversation around to the MH which he referred to as a caravan and invited me to read an article on caravans and property disputes which he just happened to have in his hand! 

I do feel harassed by him (I am female and alone during the day) as his wife attacked my next door neighbour on a previous occasion. This is a very MC neighbourhood (whatever that means) but I still wish to uphold the principle that we should be able to store the vehicle of our choice on our personal space.

I stupidly caved in and showed him my log book yesterday as I thought I would be proving a point but my Bessacarr E495 is listed as Private HGV. I shall go back to the community police but I am staring at the likelihood of storage. I have to confess that I would have rushed to that conclusion sooner if I felt something for my neighbours but we are looked down on somewhat because my husband is and I am an ex-teacher. 

Can't wait to get the 'van on the road - I think we'll go full time when my husband has retired.

Coco


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## Mike48

Your motorhome is a licensed road vehicle. As such would you not be entitled to park it on the road outside your or indeed his house? Given the option would not your neighbour consider a motorhome on your driveway a rather more aesthetic option.

Seriously though I have every sympathy for neighbours where motorhomes are intrusive. Frankly I would'nt want one blocking my view or dominating my outlook. But if they are reasonably well hidden then what's the harm.


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## Grizzly

Coco said:


> but we are looked down on somewhat because my husband is and I am an ex-teacher.
> Coco


"Looked down on" My goodness ! Is there any more important profession than educating the next generation? No-one else in this country seems to be taking responsibility for doing this.

I'm not sure that your neighbour's wife, attacking another neighbour, is showing very MC values !

Hold your head up Coco ! Does your neighbour do something really important, like marketting breakfast cereals for example ?

G


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## bigfoot

Coco,
From your your last submission, your neighbour seems really brave does he only 'trespass' when you are on your own? what a 'hero'!
And his wife attacking another neighbour,they seem to be suitable for treatment. Have they heard of ASBOs they are not just for council tenants.
Remembr that old woman recently who ended up in jail for persistantly breaching hers? If other neighbours have had problems,I suggest you contact the Local Authority's community safety team. The team works as a partner with the Police,they would give you the best advice. 
This situation needs to be resolved,there's no point in going away and having to come back to those idiots!
Alternatively when your hubby is home park his car out of site,giving the impression he is out,then when chummy checks his water again call the police reasonably restrain him then see what happens.
Community Police officers like a quiet life they hate paperwork,who does?
I wonder if the neighbours were the first on the estate and think it's theirs.
Have you had any papers indicating court action or is it all hot air?
whilst storage may be the better option all round,it would then make them think they have won,and what would be their next target. I reckon the rental house is proably getting up his nose and you,conveniently, are an easy target.
Try not to let it get you down,remember you've got something they have'nt-us here!!


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## maddie

Hi why not try parking it on the road,outside there house.I am sure from what I have read so far they will not be long at calling the police then you can ask your neighbour if they prefer it on your drive in front of police without escalating the problem?I think once they realise that you can park it on the road they will not have much choice in the matter,then defuse the problem with a bottle of wine for them.Keep your insurance up as where I live some people would not take this laying down and fires mysteriously start!
I must point out that my neighbour puts up with my van on my drive blocking his few up the road and indeed also put up with all the noise dirt etc while we converted it.He even offers advise and keeps his eye on things while we rush down to get bits leaving garage open.Untill reading this I never gave it much thought onhow good they are.
terry


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## 95633

Hi Coco

We had nightmare neighbours - it was one of the reasons we decided to sell-up and fulltime in our RV.

There's no way I would want all that hassle again.

Why not take a photo and post it here so we can get a feel for what your neighbour is complaining of - you do say it's a P-HGV which suggests it's a little bigger than your average MH.

I would suggest that you send them a polite letter (registered/recorded) to explain you're more than happy to discuss their concerns, but that you have privacy concerns at being photographed by them and have issues with them tresspassing on your property, but you are willing to sit and talk things thru.

Most Councils now have mediation services for exactly these kinds of situations - could be worth a go.

Whatever you do, DO NOT let it escalate any further than that.

Give in if you have to - sell your house (whilst someone will still want to buy it, as they won't if it gets to court), and enjoy your life without all the hassles.

Paul


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## Brock

*Photographs*

Banjobob has a good point. Some time ago there was much hoo-hah in the bus magazines because a number of bus stations stopped enthusiasts photographing buses because it infringed the rights of drivers and passengers. I haven't been able to find the magazines (we throw them out on a regular basis) but I think it was to do with Data Protection. At work we put up signs that say we have security cameras running. Again this is because of the Data Protection Act.

By the way, my brother and sister in laws are retired teachers, my eldest sister is a recently retired teacher, and my other sister is still a teacher in a mixed cultural school in an inner city. I have no doubt whatsover that teaching is a magnificent and challenging occuptation.


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## sallytrafic

Yes what does MC stand for?

Regards Frank


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## 104481

Hi Bigfoot,

Thanks for your support. This has been my first post on the forum and I have been amazed by how willing people are to contribute their opinions. It is fascinating to read all the different viewpoints and it all adds to the bigger picture in deciding whether to take this to the wire or not. 

I shall be contacting the council on Monday in order to get their view. I suspect though that all the neighbours would say thay want our MH moved - this place is a bit 'Stepford Wives.' 

I look forward to posting on more pleasurable matters shortly.

Coco


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## vardy

- Get all the council planning offices, and police advice into letters/e-mails of confirmation if poss + definitions and website printouts into a tabbed folder + a 'time line'. Go to the local citizens advice and explain that you are being harassed but do not feel you can safely start legal action ( cite their scary behaviour and other intrusions ).
If CAB are not in an inner city and 'stretched' as we are here, they may take on the query as it is upsetting your living conditions. 
Sometimes it helps to have an impartial 'body' to prepare an overview of the facts, with no emotions involved. Then if he takes you to court, you've already got credible witness/3rd party support to your distress. - Bit like having a social worker! Give 'em a ring.
Look out for him sneaking around to scratch the vehicle if he's prowling about. ? Get a camera on HIM. Even if it's one of those dummy ones.
- Good luck, - Helena.


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## 104481

Hi Frank,

MC stands for middle class. Personally I think there only three classes - those that don't have to work, those who can't or won't and those that do.

Coco.


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## Grizzly

Coco said:


> Personally I think there only three classes - those that don't have to work, those who can't or won't and those that do.
> 
> Coco.


Four surely...those that did but don't now.  

G


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## dilly

I too would like you to post a photo of your motorhome on your drive so we can judge if your neighbour is just a plain old misery or he has every right to complain. Our m/h is on our drive but is not obstructing anybodys view . I saw a program on tv a while ago about selling houses & the estate agents all agreed that m/h & caravans on a drive put people off & in some cases actually devalued the owners & neighbours property.
Perhaps this is worrying him & rightly so.
Ian.


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## sergeant

Hi all, As an x police sergeant i can assure you all that these covenants ONLY relate to a TOWED caravan. As a motorcaravan by its own definition is a normally taxed, mot'ed & insured road legal vehicle for use as your own personal transport & not for business use NO ONE can stop you parking it reasonably on ypur own premises. As previously stated by others these covenants almost without exception are ONLY enforceable by the original builder, Steve


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## wobby

Is it not the case that we pay road tax to keep our MH on the road and a MH has an engine, Caravans don't. I don't think that a MH can be set it the same class as a caravan especially if your covenant excludes you from parking a caravan and does not state a MH. As far as I know these fine points of law make all the difference. 
In France you Can't park a caravan at an aire so they see a difference. 
Best tell your neighbour to buy a MH or even beter get a life!!!
Wobby


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## Invicta

I too have experienced unpleasantness from neighbours as a result of making an application to divide my house in two for inheritance tax purposes. I have written about my experience with difficult neighbours elsewhere on this site.

At the planning application meeting, three of my immediate neighbours attended in order to complain amongst other matters about my R/V being parked on my property. It is normally parked at the side of the house, not restricting light in anyway to anyone except me. The neighbour next door had previously complained that he could see the top of it over the 6'high fence between our houses. At the same time he had also complained about a temporary portable building having been parked at the bottom of his garden while building work was taking place at the residential home that is there.

To see my R/V when it is parked at the side of my house, this neighbour has to go out into his garden and look over a distance of his double garage plus his pathway that would accommodate a further single garage between where my R/V is parked and his house as none of his windows face my house.

The neighbour opposite had taken photographs of the cars in my drive to take to the planning meeting. (Has someone said that this was an offence?!). These two neighbours plus a further six, had written letters of representation to my planning application. There is a covenant on the house that says no hut shed caravan or house on wheels shall be allowed to stand on the land. I had previously checked with my solicitor and she had said that the R/V is a vehicle as it is taxed and insured to go on the highway.

My deeds also say '* no washing for drying or otherwise shall be exposed on the land except for domestic purposes'.* I have been guilty of breaching this covenant as I used to wash the football gear of the village football team when my grandson played in it!

I have now planted 21 Leylandis across the front of my house to hide the view of my R/V from the neighbour opposite when it is parked at the front of the house, behind the building line I would add. I have also got a 6' high electric gate across the side of my house for security to the R/V and to further hide much of it from view when it is parked here. On top of this I have installed a CCTV camera that scans the entire front of my property. With this I keep a careful watch on my new trees!

Returning to the planning application meeting, the Chairman of this said that the parking of the R/V on my property was not a matter for the planning committee.

My neighbours came away from that meeting absolutely furious to the extent that immediately after the meeting two of them exhibited extremely intimidating behaviour towards me. One of them, a steward of Canterbury Cathedral, slammed the door in my face as I was leaving! I have since reported the intimidating behaviour of this neighbour, the 'leader of the pack', to the police following which he now has a police identification number.

Another matter to which my neighbours objected is that from time to time I have had lodgers living here. For the past four years these have included nurses from the Indian subcontinent over here to work in the home where the mother of the neighbour opposite was a resident immediately prior to her death.

At the beginning of this year I had asked the lodgers to leave as I was about to commence the building work for which I had obtained the planning permission. As this hasn't yet started and the contract on the house they went to from me is about the end, on the 1st July I have one of the nurses returning to live here with her 21 year old son who is at University here for the next 3 years. The son now has a car that will be parked off the road on my drive. The only annoyance they can be accused of is the smell of curry that wafts from my kitchen at times!

Having lodgers has many benefits. I have permanent cat and dog sitters when we go away and there is always someone living in the house when we are away on our travels.

Meanwhile my solicitor is following up the beneficiaries of these covenants in order to get them removed. If this cannot be done she has advised that for the cost of approximately £500 I can get insurance cover against the beneficiaries turning up and demanding any monies due to them!


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## 103356

Dazzer said:


> Oh Dear :roll:
> 
> Why cant people just live and let live. Is the neighbour elderly? It seems like he is jealous and a bit sad with nothing better to do with his time. 8O
> 
> Have you actually gone round and tried to speak to him? There must be some common ground maybe a higher fence or some tall trees?? :wink:
> 
> At the end of the day its your house and your land. Why should you not be able to keep a perfectly legal vehicle on your own land? Ok so it big, but so what. Seems to me you should give him a fiver and tell him to go and buy himself a life!!! :lol:
> 
> Good luck with it


I'm sorry, but this is not live and let live. It's more like 'I'm all right Jack'. If you live in a community then surely you do not have the right to do what the hell you like and stuff everyone else. That is a selfish attitude. One of the posters above had it right when he said he _could_ park his MH on his own driveway, but then looked at it from the neighbours point of view and realised it was a potential eyesore viewed from their house. If you want to park something large on your driveway (and we are talking in front of the houseline here) then does it not make sense to ask your neighbours first if they mind. The answer isn't binding, but at least you will know the strength of the opposition before you turn up with a large MH and park it in full view. The fact that you took the trouble to ask often makes them much more cooperative. Just turning up with it and who cares what the neighbours think is bound to aggrevate the situation. As for suggesting that you deliberately provoke said neighbour by parking it in front of his house just defies description. Whatever happened to good manners and consideration for other people in this country? If you take the trouble to park your MH behind the houseline then that is a different matter and I also accept that some neighbours can be a right royal pain without any provocation whatsoever, but the old classic of 'Two wrongs do not make a right' seems appropriate here.


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## dilly

Ditto


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## sallytrafic

sergeant said:


> Hi all, As an x police sergeant i can assure you all that these covenants ONLY relate to a TOWED caravan. As a motorcaravan by its own definition is a normally taxed, mot'ed & insured road legal vehicle for use as your own personal transport & not for business use NO ONE can stop you parking it reasonably on ypur own premises. As previously stated by others these covenants almost without exception are ONLY enforceable by the original builder, Steve





wobby said:


> Is it not the case that we pay road tax to keep our MH on the road and a MH has an engine, Caravans don't. I don't think that a MH can be set it the same class as a caravan especially if your covenant excludes you from parking a caravan and does not state a MH. As far as I know these fine points of law make all the difference.
> In France you Can't park a caravan at an aire so they see a difference.
> Best tell your neighbour to buy a MH or even beter get a life!!!
> Wobby


Again I have to point out that whatever the law says about the difference between a caravan and a motorhome such as road traffic acts, construction and use etc, these laws are applicable only when on the road. When parked off the road or public land then what matters is the local government definitions and quite clearly the 1988 Local Government act bundles motorcaravans, campers, RV and motorhomes with caravans. Now whether these definitions have been tested in the courts I can't say and whether the planning department would be even interested I also can't say but the definition at the moment is there for all to see and to save you looking back I'll state it again:

from the LGFA 1988: "Caravan means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, "

then follows a list of exceptions none of which concern a motorhome.

Reggards Frank


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## 104543

Hi,
I had a similar problem.
I checked my deeds, the usual no caravans or boats, then I bought my motorcaravan.
When I parked it, (actually on the road, as there were cars on my drive), and I wanted to clean it, load it up etc, and my drive slopes badly, so it was there for a few days, I then received an anonymous note, saying it would be towed away, as the deeds prevented motorhomes.
I put a copy of the note in the windscreen, and a reply saying it was a road legal vehicle, and if it was touched, I would report it to the police as attempted theft. A few days later I parked it on the drive, with the note and response visible.
The neighbours all read it, and without exception condemned the anonymous party, and no one complained about the 'van.
It has been there now for 7 years, and indeed have been upgraded to a slightly larger one as well, but still parks on the drive.
I have had no complaints since, even anonymous ones. 
Good luck, and stick with it.


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## 103605

Commisserations Coco, I fully understand the neighbour nightmare as we have the neighbours from hell. All in all, it cost us our life savings to have a really sophisticated CCTV system installed, and wage a legal battle to retrieve our land - they smashed our boundary fence down in order to make extra parking for themselves- and we had to put up with damage to property, death threats and ongoing intimidation. My partner was so distressed she didn't leave the house without me for nearly a year. The police were disgusting - very "matey" with the neighbour and tried to trump up untruthful allegations against me, which they couldn't make stick, because we had the 24 hour CCTV footage which showed them all up for the liars they were. 

I think its cost us years off our lives, but both the direct neighbour and the evil old woman (ex-councillor voted off council this election) a few doors away who egged them on, have their houses up for sale. Its a very MC area, described as "posh" in our rather horrible chav / brewing town, and the evil oldie is an ex-headteacher, while the neighbour is a special needs teacher who heads up the county team for special needs teaching. I'm a medical professional (hospital consultant)dual qualified in forensic law. Does it make a sods difference in the way they behave? No. As bad as, even worse, than the council estates in many respects. Does it make me anti-teacher? Of course not, that would just be playing their game. Someone had to break the cycle of intimidation . We were of course also victimised due to the neighbours homophobia and xenophobia - take 2 middle aged women, a biggish house, nice motor cars and a motorhome, and foreign-sounding accents (years of living in Africa)and you have a recipe for horrid racist and bigoted behaviour which rears its ugly head in all walks of society. 

Will it solve your problem? I think not, but you're not alone out there. Some household insurance policies offer free legal consultations and it may be worth checking if yours does - we have a Hiscox policy which certainly does, and it'll save you £200 or so but will also clarify your legal position. I would do that before embarking on any storage etc. Also, lots of people bluster and threaten about solicitors - unless your neighbour is very well heeled indeed, I doubt he will leap into a civil case which from experience is likely to end up costing the parties around £20K - £50k, WITH NO ASSURANCES of his winning his case, and having to shell that out on costs. Sit tight, stay polite, speak to local police about harassment as well.

Hope it goes well for you - keep us posted.

Laurie


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## Invicta

I feel that Laurie has raised a very interesting point here. I am referring to the manner in which people behave according to the areas in which they live. 

I now live in what can be considered to be quite a desirable area. Most of the people living in the 'Lane' (this name in itself conjures up snobbishness I feel !) are or have been professionals or married to one. Two of the main complainants of me are or have been teachers, one a headmaster of a state school and the other a teacher in well known public school. Not that I have anything against teachers, my father-in-law was a headmaster, my sister-in-law a deputy headmistress, my other sister in law a teacher in a comprehensive and my cousin was a university lecturer. My middle daughter takes a reception class in an independent school where I will say there is absolutely no snobbery amongst those parents as I have encountered with some of children attending the village school! 

In my professional life I was a health visitor and before that a nurse, midwife and district nurse. I have cared for people in all walks of life from 'drop outs of society to Lords and Ladies. My late husband was a police officer for 30 years so he too has dealt with all classes of society whatever 'classes' are these days. 

My experience has been that the most friendly communities are found on council estates and in the ethnic minority communities. Here there is a culture of looking out for one another unlike mine where they are either too busy keeping up with the Jones or looking down their noses at the likes of me with my motorcaravan. perhaps if I invited them round to use my swimming pool their attitudes might change but I will not as I don't want them peeing in my pool! 

I did invite them all round to see the plans of my house alterations before they went before the planning committee but only a couple came out of 26 households invited and they were fully in support of our plans anyway.

I always remember a saying of an old English teacher, "There's nowt so queer as folk"! Certainly applies to the neighbours mentioned in these various postings!


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## NormanB

I come down on the side of Chrisdy. Whatever the law says, in our civilised society, we have a moral duty to our neighbours.

Recognising the sensitivity of the issue, we have our MH at a storage site despite having plenty of free hardstanding at the front of the house.

I think MHs and caravans parked in front of houses usually detract from the area's amenity value.


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## 104481

I have to agree wholeheartedly with the two previous posts. One of the reasons I am now an ex-teacher is because of the bullying behaviour of the last Head I worked for (long story). She single handedly put paid to what had been a very successful teaching career of over 28 years with varying degress of senior management responsibility.

One of the reasons I haven't wanted to give in to my neighbour is because of his bullying stance. The more you give in to them the more they bully. 

My husband and I are both law abiding, friendly and approachable people but we have failed to establish anything more than a nodding relationship with the other householders. This is why I don't feel any remorse about our MH. Nevertheless we are now thinking of storage but will be imposing conditions namely that the guy threatening us removes his folding caravan from his garage and restores his parking to the terms of the covenant. We shall also make the other immediate neighbours aware of our decision but we will reserve the right to load up up motorhome and store it at home overnight for cleaning and maintenance when necessary. 

The main reason we have decided to compromise is because we want to sell our house within the next three years and move somewhere more suited to us and our needs.

It's been a fascinating read, thank you all. I look forward to lots of happy posts in the future.

Coco


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## Spacerunner

I have noticed several patronising references to council estates during this thread. I don't know why some people think council estates are any different than any other high density residential area. What I can tell you though, is that there is rarely any of the back biting that has been illustrated in the preceding postings.Recently I had a dropped kerb and drive way added to my ex-council house to enable me to keep my motorhome at home.The reaction I got was, 'what a great idea'. What's more all my neighbours respect the entrance area, not one instance of obstruction.
And by the way, Invicta, my road is also a 'Lane'.
What this proves I don't know, but it certainly makes me appreciate the local community spirit, which may be lacking in more, so-called desirable areas.


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## mauramac

Whilst I sympathise with you for having troublesome neighbours I really get a bit cross with the responses from people who say that your neighbour must be jealous and needs to get a life. Not everyone loves motorhomes - why should they? Just because we are passionate about ours there's absolutely no reason to expect others to love them or to imagine their attitude is down to jealousy.

I do think that motorhomes can look unattractive parked on small driveways and they often impinge on the overall look of an area. They are predominantly white and stand out. 

Also I would not be happy about people using the Police to sort out a dispute - on either side. They have quite enough to do without getting involved in this type of case - unless violence or abuse is involved then of course they should be notified.

If you ever choose to sell your house you will have to declare any disputes with neighbours that has involved the Police or Court cases so if I was you I would avoid that at all costs.

I'm not sure where the feeling of being looked down on (being an ex-teacher) comes into all this but do you have any actual proof of that - or is it just a feeling you have? Such a shame as teaching is a hard enough job to do without imagining that people are looking down on you.

Stick with it is my advice and ignore him. I am sure he will get totally fed up with getting nowhere and when he realise how costly it would be will give up. 

Other than that consider putting it into storage and accept they are eyesores to a lot of folk.........not us on here :wink: .........but to many ill informed and ignorant people who connect them with gypsies and travellers they are not welcomed.

Good Luck

Maura
p.s. why get involved with what he has in his garage - that is being as bad as him isn't it? Leave that issue totally if I was you. He may want to know how you know what is in his garage!


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## BERTHA

There is a convent on the land where we park our beast but I asked the neighbours prior to purchase asking would they mind me parking the motorhome not mentioning the convent

Thank goodness all said yes


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## 104705

NormanB said:


> Whatever the law says, in our civilised society, we have a moral duty to our neighbours.


This seems to be what is so wrong with society today. Should we not be tolerant of peoples freedoms and wishes, or do we just bow down to the loudest whinger or complainant. I have had a neighbour who persistently complains to the council. I have had complaints about a shed, a tree shedding leaves in the autumn, the fact I have two dogs, leaving for work at 5.0am and disturbing them when I start my car, cutting grass with an electric mower at 6.30 pm on a week day, and the list goes on. All from a neighbour that moved in only eighteen months or so ago and whilst nothing is new on my part. And as for neighbour mediation, what a waste of time. When it comes to bullies, you cannot afford to show any weakness, for if you do, it can only get worse.

We live in a society developed by the 'thinking classes' that seem to encourage complaints about anything, demonise anyone who doesn't have liberal thoughts. IMO, they have only caused the culture and tradition of this country to be something that I am no longer proud of. What has happened to the community spirit where family, friends and neighbours all looked out for each other. It has been taken over by greed, envy, jealously and selfishness.


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## 103605

Spacerunner - I certainly mentioned council estates but not patronisingly - nor can I find a posting that did. In fact, I said it probably would NOT happen on one. As it happens, we have family and friends in tiny midterraces and council estates, and none of them behave in the way Coco, Invicta or indeed, ourselves, have been treated. 
As for teachers - well, there were a few in my family too - I pointed out it was NOT something about them Maura, rather something else, less easy to pinpoint, that seems to make people behave in this amazingly unfriendly, anti-social way. I think you only have to disclose ongoing disputes with neighbours, not resolved ones to prospective purchasers of a property, by the way- our neighbour was desperate to get the boundary issue with us sorted so she could put her house on the market without disclosing the fuss that had recently taken place when her boyfriend smashed our wall down to make himself a parking place!

Storage is an issue too - I searched high and low in our area and there is just nothing available here - the one reasonable, secure undercover facility is totally full with no forseeable space. One should not have to spend hundreds on abandoning your pride and joy in a field somewhere - we really like having our motorhome at home. Coco should be able to have it at her home if she so wishes. 

I can only endorse the posting of Freetochat - whatever has happened to this country's community spirit and polite way of dealing with issues? Seems the bullies are set up to win every time. In our instance, the corruption has filtered into local policing too. 

Our neighbours have been a complete disgrace to humanity - my sympathies are with you Coco, hang in there. The wheels of natural justice turn, albeit at their own slooooow speed!!!

Laurie


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## Invicta

I totally agree Freetochat!

Before moving to my present house, I have lived in four others where our M/C was parked on the properties with no complaints whatsoever!

I have gone a bit upmarket buying this property as my husband and I purchased it with daughter and son-in-law so the value was somewhat higher than our previous properties. 

The neighbour next door moved in after us and one of the ones opposite who had written in his letter of representation to the planning committee that my house is 'out of character with the other properties in the Lane', moved into his house the same weekend we came here. I reminded this neighbour that he had looked at my house with a view to purchasing it but didn't as he had said it was 'too big'. His wife had told me that they were considering opening it as a day nursery. 

I am waiting for the day when one of our neighbours comes knocking on the door for my son-in-law's assistance, (he is a Paramedic), where another is having a heart attack. 

They are past needing my services as a Midwife !!


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## Rapide561

*Covenants*

Hi

You will probably find there are two types of restrictive coventants associated with your property - especially in the case of newer builds.

On one hand, the covenant may say such things as "no for sale boards for three years" etc. This will have been added by the builder. There may also be covenants added by the local council from the time they granted planning permission to the builder.

My previous house was built by a national house builder and clearly stated that no caravan or van over 750kg may be parked "forward" of the property. I often parked the motorhome on the drive and did have regular run ins with one neighbour about it. I cannot see that the house builder would have been in the slightest bit interested once the developer is finished.

To quote another case, my bungalow where I lived prior to the above property was again built by a national house builder. One of the restrictive coventants was regarding using the property for business purposes. Later, a charity bought a nearby property with a view to rehoming families etc. The charity actually bought the house but had to sell it as some residents took legal action quoting the wording of the covenant.

Not worth all the hassle in my opinion. In a legal neighbourly dispute there is one clear winner - the lawyers.

I think I would look for a storage pitch to save the hassle, and possible financial costs.

On the other hand, you could take the motorhome off your drive and park it on the road outside your property!

Russell


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## johnandcharlie

If things work out how they seem to be at the moment, my house will be sold in a few weeks and I'll be fulltiming until I find another one (does that count as fulltiming?). I'll have to sell my car, so my van will be my only vehicle. It's only a panel van conversion, but still stands out more than a car. How would that be regarded if I buy a house with a restriction? It's hardly practical to keep my only vehicle in secure storage some distance away. I would check for restrictions before buying anyway, but suppose this might end up as a bit of a grey area.

I've already mentioned one existing neighbour in the Bullying topic, but the one on the other side uses part of the field next to my hedge as a yard for storing oil tanks and the vehicles, diggers, trailers etc he uses for installing them, without planning permission. I didn't want to get involved in a dispute when they moved in as I was thinking of moving, so just let the hedge grow!


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## fdhadi

We sometimes park our mh on our drive. When we are going to use it, we often bring it home from storage for loading & charging the batteries. It maybe on the drive for a day or even 2 before use depending on our workload.

Although we have never had any complaints (most of them seem interested in our travels), out of common courtesy to our neighbours we feel it is only fair to keep it in storage.

On our return, we try to have the mh back in storage within a day but this can sometimes be 2/3. I explain (*although i have no legal reason to*) that it will be put back in storage asap. The replies i get our "no problem".

As well as the problem of advertising when your home or not, another point to mention is that we receive a further discount from our insurance for keeping the mh at a secure storage site. The insurance company ask for the postcode for where the mh will be stored, *if its a registered site you could also receive a further discount which could be put towards storage costs. Just a thought!*

As well as a few other things, my main interests are:
My family
Mh's 
Football
Golf &
Snooker.

My neighbour enjoys none of these, but that doesn't make him a bad person! :wink:


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## sallytrafic

The reason this thread has my interest is that (very expensively) I had parking spaces cut into my front garden. As we live on a hill these had to be made with reinforced buttressed walls to avoid damage to the foundations. The top of my van is a few feet above the level of the garden as was. Its also an ex-council house - just told you that to set the scene. Now just a street away someone in another ex-council house has pulled down his hedge and parked a small caravan side-on to his house. They have put up a cheap looking fence to replace the hedge. The van covers what was the lawn and blocks the front window of the house and IMHO is unsightly. 

If I lived opposite then I think I would be put out. As an additional factor just across but not immediately opposite a man parks his work panel van on his parking space and its too big so although he rests it against his house it sticks out on to the pavement a foot or so. 

My fear is that the council as the majority landlord of this area are going to get involved and if they lay down the law to one it may not be long before they lay it down to others. 

So fingers crossed.


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## GypsyRose

Just wanted to mention that in OUR case we also have restrictions re parking of caravans etc. We live on a private estate mainly built in 2003. Whereas it stipulates no caravans etc as I mentioned, this is in force ONLY until the year 2008. My point being, it may be wise to check that you may not have similar rules?? :roll:


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## Grizzly

*Re: Covenants*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> My previous house was built by a national house builder and clearly stated that no caravan or van over 750kg may be parked "forward" of the property.
> On the other hand, you could take the motorhome off your drive and park it on the road outside your property!
> Russell


I've just been reminded that, apart from no TV aerials ( and, by implication, no satellite dishes) our covenants also say that we may not park a vehicle on the drive that will not go into the garage.

This certainly precludes a motorhome and, looking at many neighbours, a 4x4 as well though we've never tried one. Our house has a very short drive with a 180 degree turn onto a wide path running to 3 houses, one of which is us. The path comes out at a cul-de-sac. Most of the neighbours have at least 2 cars and most park one on their drive and one in the road so the road is full. At weekends it is hard enough to drive to the end of the cul de sac and to our house without parking a MH on it. It does make loading and unloading before we go away virtually impossible so we tend to cart everything to the farm where we store the van.

Fortunately we are blessed with very good neighbours right the way along.

I think many of the problems today are simply down to overcrowding and a natural desire to defend "your" space. It would be easy for any of us in the road- and perhaps we all do- to winge about the numbers of cars and the difficulty of driving along it and the impossibility of visitor parking. But we don't EVER make it personal. We don't keep anything on our drive, we use the garage and we only have one car, but we live with our neighbours with 3 cars and a VW combi ( grown- up children at home) and try to keep everything calm.

Someone mentioned earlier that it was the thinking classes that caused the trouble in society. We like to think we are the thinking classes and we try hard to avoid trouble - by thinking before we speak ! 

G


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## Snelly

Here comes Snelly's non PC comments:

Tell your neighbour to "ram it". Its already be said by an ex-bobby, it aint a caravan, its taxed, insured and MOT'd, you have a right to park it on the road if you want, exactly the same as you do with your car.

I had the same problem with my neighbour, she came out and said "how long are you planning on keeping that on your drive, you make the street look untidy" - my reply "forever now you said that you nosey _____".

Its my house, I pay the council tax, mortgage, bills etc - I can do what I want. If anyone wants to challenge that, let em, it takes so long to get court orders etc, nothing will happen overnight.

My neighbour used to come on my property too and I sent her a letter advising her that if I found her on my property again I would take legal action.

Main problem with my neighbour is she's bored, sat at home all day on her own while her grown up children have new lifes and her husband goes out to work to avoid her nagging him.

Right, I better get back to my wire stripping...


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## 105047

*My neighbour plans court action over my motorhome*

in law, you haven't a leg to stand on.

unfortunately "motorhome" does not exist in law - it is considered a "popularist" or "fashionable" term.

the legal definitions are "motor car", "towed caravan" and "motorised caravan" the latter one often refered to as a "motorhome".

as you can see "towed caravan" and "motorised caravan" are both "caravan"s and the covenent would normally be deemed to apply.

--------------------
What most people never realise is that a "towed caravan" can only be parked in front of a building (or the implied building line) if it has planning permission,

many councils readily give this permission if applied for - provided there are no covenents or objections.

in reality most "towed caravan"s are illegally parked, its just that most people are ignorant about the rules.

Apart from covenented areas, "motorised caravan"s are not affected by these rules provided they are taxed, insured, and mot'd at all times.

----------------------

A RAY OF HOPE for the "covenent"ed estate does exist.

Question : is it a private road or a public one?

a private road is the responsiblity of the householders and it upkeep and repair is paid for by them - check the deeds ( they often have a gate where they join a main road )

a public road is one that the council adopted and it is the council who pay for its repair and upkeep - simply ask the council highways department,

IF the road is private - sorry! hard luck the covenant applies to your properties and the whole estate.

IF the road is public - as long as the vehicle is taxed, mot'd and insured at all times AND provided there are no parking restriction (yellow or white lines along the carriageway within 9 inches of the kerb) AND provided the vehicle is in use every week or so (drive to the shops and back?) THEN no-one can stop anybody parking on a public road PROVIDED it is 30mph or below and parked WITH the traffic flow OR if over 30mph, lights show on ALL 4 corners of the vehicle from dusk to dawn.

We do not generally have provision, in the UK, to ban road-legal vehicles from parking, wherever they like, if they do not cause an obstruction (in legal or police terms) - see the highway code - EXCEPT LCVs and PCVs (big lorries and buses)


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi what a lot of interest this post has attracted.
What strikes me is that most of the replies are with you.
I had a similar neighbour who thretened me with Court action 20 years ago. Whilst her property was new and round the corner from me she had restrictive covenants. my property was 40 years old and built in the days prior to covenants. But she made life hell for over 15 years. As her rear garden backed onto the side of mine she was always spying on my children and wife. I planted a row of Silver birch and Poplar cherry trees in my garden. Both are fast growing and shed leaves in autumn, something else for her to complain about.
Then I got a couple of dogs, she complained about them before she heard or saw them. Both children grew up and bought cars to get to work in.
She complained about us having 4 cars and a van ( all Garaged at night).
She complained about the smelly BBQs held at weekends.
Then just as she was getting used to us she moved house.

The moral of this story is the same whatever you do in life.

THE MINORITY SPOIL IT FOR THE MAJORITY OF REASONABLE PEOPLE. Park on the road and on the drive on alternate days. If you can park behind the Building line do so. Does the Building line exist today,
two of our neighbours have just had a new garages built in front of the building line.
Best of luck

DAVE P


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## 103066

What a shame! We've been very lucky with our neighbours, there are all sorts of restrictive covenents in place on our deeds but everyone gets on quite well here thankfully, and no one pays it any mind, plus our Motorhome is tucked away out of site on our driveway from most neighbours. 

I think you should stick to your guns, I would imagine it is very unlikely they will incur the expense of taking you to court, however, I would certainly suggest you keep a diary of all the times when your neighbour accessed your property without your permission, harrassed you, intimidated you etc. 

Best of luck!


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## 104481

Dave,

You are absolutely right, this has attracted a surprising number of posts and I am very grateful to everyone who has posted. One of the most recent contributors has pointed out that we apparently don't have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view and his view supports others who say that an MH is infact in the same category as a caravan by legal definition. 

Lots of you have suggested that we keep it on the road - this would be unreasonable on our part because it would be much more visible to all. 

In order to be able to continue bringing our MH here for loading etc, we have decided to find a storage site (I know of a good one but its going to cost us £360 per annum). I shall be writing to my neighbour to inform him that we shall continue to bring our MH to our house when need be and this will include some overnights. I wouldn't relish the prospect of coming home late (on occasions) and having to unload and clean the van in the dark. I am afraid he is just going to have to live with that.

We are now even more convinced that our current house really doesn't suit ouir needs. As soon as daughter is off to uni, we shall be travelling around locating for our ideal location with space for our MH. 

Coc.


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## baldlygo

Coco said:


> ..One of the most recent contributors has pointed out that we apparently don't have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view and his view supports others who say that an MH is infact in the same category as a caravan by legal definition.


Although I agree that a MH is usually "in the same category as a caravan by legal definition" I do not agree that you "don't have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view" (unless I've missed something significant in this long thread!). Unless your local Council is a party in your covenant I think it very unlikely that you would get taken to court by anyone else.

However, having myself been deeply involved with legal disputes with neighbours in the past, I think your decision to go for storage is your best course of action. As has been pointed out above there are some advantages to this anyway and you should never feel guilty about your occasional need to park at home.

Paul


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## 104705

It is unfortunate that you have been forced into this decision, but on balance it may provide you with if nothing else some peace of mind. Complaints can escalate to damage etc. so the storage costs will be a safeguard. Not wishing to depress you further, but just beware that your neighbour doesn't see this as a victory and go on to something else they don't agree with. I speak from bitter experience having made a concession with my neighbour only to find his perceived stature to grow.


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## 101002

I would be as polite as possible to your neighbour under all circumstances. I certainly would not move my motorhome at this stage there is a long way to go yet before your neighbour can achieve any result.

First he would have to gather his evidence, then find a solicitor to take the case on assuming there was a case, then they would have to serve notice on you giving probably 30 days to comply with any covenant. 

All this and it has cost your neighbour, not you, until you do not comply and he issues proceedings against you. Then if you consider there is a case you can always move it then but I would not move it before especially as you say it is parked out of sight of the front of the house.

Once you comply he will think it is easy to bully you. Carry on and be as polite as possible and reasonable at all times don't have spats with him it only goes to antagonise people he may calm down and not go any further or he may not have a case. Big Frank

P S As a last resort i could visit him for 50 quid :lol:


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## 104481

Thanks all for your recent contributions. Whereas storage for us seems to be the easiest solution it does irritate me that there are currently multiple breaches of the covenants throughout the estate with visible satelite dishes and houses being let. The guy in question parks in a way which prevents his next door neighbout (a tenant) from accessing his garage and rides his motor cycle down a pedestrian passage way!!! 

Sounds trivial but the moral high ground is not entirely with him. For these reasons Hubby is less inclined to give in than me and thinks we should suggest that once other breaches of covenant have been resolved, we will also comply. It's become a bit of a moral maze which has made us question our normally passive stance. We have always been polite with him but want to have nothing further to do with him. 

I'm just about to ring the local storage company though to check on availability. 

kind regards all,

Coco.


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## mauramac

Coco said:


> We are now even more convinced that our current house really doesn't suit ouir needs. As soon as daughter is off to uni, we shall be travelling around locating for our ideal location with space for our MH.
> Coc.


So basically are you now saying that the house you presently own does not in fact have enough space for your MH? If you are moving because of this neighbour you have given in to bullies which you said earlier you didn't believe in doing - I'm confused.

Honestly I can totally sympathise with having a moan about lousy neighbours, I too have a couple like that but as for selling up because of their total selfishness - no way. I'm here to stay until I want to move.

Just as a response to someone else's comments about declaring disputes...my daughter was buying a house a while ago and on the form she received from the seller it definitely declared details of a dispute over boundaries and drainage which had been settled. It included a signed document outlining all neighbours concerns and their signatures. When I asked solicitor about it he told me that ALL disputes whether resolved or not had to be mentioned. I would check to see if this has changed.

I can't abide selfishness on any level. Just because we own a property or a vehicle that we love doesn't mean everyone else is jealous of us. I do think we have a duty to be reasonable to others. No I am not a raving PC do goodie type, just someone brought up in a small terrace house where you all got on and had to show some respect for your neighbours. True it was a nicer time, but respect and consideration should be timeless.

An emotive subject but interesting to read everyones responses.

I do hope you find somewhere nice to live Coco....try and check out the neighbours if possible 

Maura


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## 104481

Hi Maura,

When I said space, I meant lots and lots of space. I didn't want to mislead you into thinking I don't have space at home at the moment - I do but it's not the right sort of space generally - my husband needs to build a studio and we can't do that at the moment. We have plans to move in the long term its just that we may start the ball rolling sooner than planned.

I don't wish to give the impression that I don't respect other people I do but there are exceptions. I have lived in lots of different parts of the country and never had problems before. The neighbour come to our area with a history of neighbourhood disputes which he was quite happy to tell us about when he moved in. It is only on reflection that you remember these things.

He is a bully, he won't make us move in the short term but we've been grateful for all these posts in clarifying the position with regard to motorhomes as we are such newbies.

Coco.


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## vardy

I've finally cracked with this pair next door. (Much history explained in an earlier post about the tree). They were out again last night picking leaves that were poking through the fence, and doing the usual sentry duty, involving contortions to see into our sitting room. I have to close the heavy curtains in the day (Southern lass - don't do nets!) 

There is no forgiveness in me for the terrible things they have done. Killing my cat, and the groping being top of the list. I have adopted a live and let live policy with them for years, and turned cheek after cheek as advised by others on the forum. Plus out of original kindness to her, made light of his advances until he gave up. 

Not any more. I am going to make sure they never cause any other person the degree of pain they have caused me. I want them next to me for ever, so that no young couple/pensioner/nice people will go through this again. 

So, if they try to sell, buyers will not be lied to; and now that I have retired our very large families will be invited here for BBQ's that she had forbidden us to have. (we occasionally cooked for the 2 of us-and bought a second expensive grill as she said she was allergic to charcoal - only to have her sneeringly tell us it was the smell of our food too!) 
And I will do as I please from here on in, after twenty years of bowing to their complaints as I was too overworked and ill to sort it out. 

Does anybody know how to find out which fence is mine - I've tried the deeds and plans, but can't work it out as it's old and indistinct. 
I promise I'm not putting a current through it! But the first move is the fence they have always told me I can't have, on the boundary I'm sure is ours. 

And may I thank you all for your help with the tree issue. It is coming 1/2 down this year, and all down next if no cracks in house. As it won't be until October, it'll let them sweat a bit, which is small comfort as I am going to really miss it so much. - Helena


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## ksebruce

I'm always amazed at how much some people think they have a right to control others lives and try to dictate what they can and can't do. We don't have this to put up with. My static is on a very small site 15 statics and log cabins. We must be very lucky as all of our neighbors look out for one another and if you are doing anything (we are currently laying a patio) and if we asked help would be forthcoming.


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## mauramac

Coco.....sorry I meant other people should be considerate and have respect , was not referring to you.


Helena..... 8O 
That sounds awful and goes way beyond normal neighbourly moaning etc. I think groping (as you put it) would definitely be something I would make official report of.

Fence issues are usually sorted out by either Council Planning offices who can help if they actually have any staff (ours never do) or Land Registry. They were really helpful to us. I know you can also look up deeds etc on line for about £3.50 and print it off but this may not help if deeds are indistinct. 

I would go to Land Registry first and try them. 

8O And I thought bonfires in the middle of the day were a nuisance 8O 

Maura


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## vardy

- Thanks Maura, I wondered about the planning office, will give it a go when I get back from Grandma's. 
Helena.


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## asprn

Grizzly said:


> The police should not be involved as it is a civil matter.


That's correct. They would only get involved to prevent or deal with a breach of the peace/damage etc. should the neighbour decide to "do summit abaat it".

Dougie.


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## asprn

Dazzer said:


> At the end of the day its your house and your land. Why should you not be able to keep a perfectly legal vehicle on your own land? Ok so it big, but so what.


At the beginning of the day, Coco knew about the covenant, and agreed with it (evidenced by signing). The motorhome was subsequently purchased despite the full knowledge of that fact.

That alone is the cause of Coco's problem. He's parked a motorhome despite having agreed not to, or at least wthout enquiring about the ramifications of parking despite the "caravan" wording. (I don't say I'm not sympathetic, but that's the heart of the matter.)

Dougie


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## asprn

Coco said:


> Thank you all for your comments. I didn't want to be too long-winded in my original posting but there are some additional points worth making.
> 
> I have checked with the planning department at the local council and they can't see an issue with our MH. None of my neighbours have to look directly at it and the only light it blocks is ours. We ae tucked away in a corner of the estate so are not 'in your face' so to speak. The community police officer I spoke to in connection with him photographing us said that as far as the law is concerned we are allowed to park it where it is.
> 
> There are other multiple breaches of the covenant such as satelite dishes and property being rented (residents are not supposed to do this). The neighbour in question lives next to a rented house with a satelite dish so I can only conclude he doesn't like motorhomes.
> 
> As for the issue of caravans devaluing property - I am sure a neighbour dispute will cost more in the long term.
> 
> The neighbour enfringes his parking rights because he has a folding caravan parked in his garage! I suspect he will get rid of it in order to normalise the situation before he takes us to court.
> 
> There are 300,000 motorcaravans in the UK and I am sure they can't all be stored. I pay very high rates and storage feels like just another tax. I also feel that we should all be entitled to enjoy our possessions peacefully.
> 
> Coco


Coco,

I wish you well with this. It's emotionally debilitating having an ongoing neighbour dispute, especially over something which I believe most reasonable people wouldn't have any problem with.

Dougie.


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## Grizzly

Coco - if you do decide to store your MH elsewhere - and has been pointed out there are advantages to this -then perhaps write a short note to your neighbour, thanking her for putting you on to the idea of storage. Tell her that because it is not parked at home you have had a very good reduction on the insurance and this pays for the storage ( she's unlikely to know otherwise ) 

This should take the wind out of her sails and save your face.

G


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## asprn

Grizzly said:


> Coco - if you do decide to store your MH elsewhere - and has been pointed out there are advantages to this -then perhaps write a short note to your neighbour, thanking her for putting you on to the idea of storage. Tell her that because it is not parked at home you have had a very good reduction on the insurance and this pays for the storage ( she's unlikely to know otherwise )
> 
> This should take the wind out of her sails and save your face.
> 
> G


Excellent. We always say, "Don't get mad - get even".

Dougie.


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## olley

vardy said:


> Does anybody know how to find out which fence is mine - I've tried the deeds and plans, but can't work it out as it's old and indistinct.
> I promise I'm not putting a current through it! But the first move is the fence they have always told me I can't have, on the boundary I'm sure is ours.
> 
> And may I thank you all for your help with the tree issue. It is coming 1/2 down this year, and all down next if no cracks in house. As it won't be until October, it'll let them sweat a bit, which is small comfort as I am going to really miss it so much. - Helena


Hi Helen irrespective of who's fence it is there's nothing to stop you putting a fence up on your side of the property. I believe you can go to 6' without planning permission.

Olley


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## 104481

Hi asprn,

You are right about the covenant but in an earlier post I referred to the multiple breaches of covenant for many years - satelite dishes and renting out houses. Before buying the motorhome, I asked a number of people (solicitors, police) who were of the opinion that an MH falls into a different category. Naive and misguided but not intentionally.

Coca


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## badger

Hi Helen

If it helps, if the posts are your side, it's your responsibility (ie your fence)
If it's one of those fences with posts in the centre then I really don't know although it should be in your deeds.

Olly is correct, I've put a new fence my side of the neighbours scruffy fence, it looks a lot better even if it means losing 2/3" of garden.


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## asprn

Coco said:


> You are right about the covenant but in an earlier post I referred to the multiple breaches of covenant for many years - satelite dishes and renting out houses. Before buying the motorhome, I asked a number of people (solicitors, police) who were of the opinion that an MH falls into a different category. Naive and misguided but not intentionally.


You've obviously taken a reasonable and thought-out approach, and I know you didn't set out to cause anyone problems (quite the opposite). As I've said, good luck with it all.

Dougie.


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## sallytrafic

Another little wrinkle that might affect those forced to park on the street, this from Salisbury's Residents parking rules.


"Because of the general lack of on-street parking space, the issuing of residents parking permits is restricted as follows:

To vehicles under 2 tonne unladen weight and/or 6 metres in length or with a maximum of 12 passenger seats.........."

Thus my reading of this is if I were forced out on to the street I would not be able to park near my house. So this challenges the view expressed by others in this thread that if you have a properly taxed vehicle you can park it in the street or at least adds to the caveats on that statement.


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## 103356

Coco said:


> Dave,
> 
> You are absolutely right, this has attracted a surprising number of posts and I am very grateful to everyone who has posted. One of the most recent contributors has pointed out that we apparently don't have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view and his view supports others who say that an MH is infact in the same category as a caravan by legal definition.
> 
> Lots of you have suggested that we keep it on the road - this would be unreasonable on our part because it would be much more visible to all.
> 
> In order to be able to continue bringing our MH here for loading etc, we have decided to find a storage site (I know of a good one but its going to cost us £360 per annum). I shall be writing to my neighbour to inform him that we shall continue to bring our MH to our house when need be and this will include some overnights. I wouldn't relish the prospect of coming home late (on occasions) and having to unload and clean the van in the dark. I am afraid he is just going to have to live with that.
> 
> We are now even more convinced that our current house really doesn't suit ouir needs. As soon as daughter is off to uni, we shall be travelling around locating for our ideal location with space for our MH.
> 
> Coc.


Just be aware that even where a covenant is in place it only refers to 'permanent' parking of the caravan (or MH) on the site. Reasonable periods are permitted to allow loading and unloading, cleaning, preparation, etc. This certainly includes overnight parking. No-one would ever get an order preventing such activity, provided it did indeed fall into the category of 'reasonable' need for temporary siting on the property. ('Reasonable' could only really be decided by a court, but common sense would give a pretty good indication). There would be no need to inform your neighbour in this case, unless, as indicated, you wish to calm the situation.


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## 104705

Most has been said about this problem, but any covernent will have an enforcing party and it all depends on the transition. I should have had a covernent on my property, but in the title transfer to me, it didn't form part of the contract. The national building company formed a subsidary company to develop the land and then it was disolved. A normal tactic to minimise liability. On that basis, the chain was broken. Many of the houses are in this position, and the covernent is being broken by many. Some time ago every house received a letter threatening legal action over satalite dishes, in favour of a developers cable system which persistently failed to those that signed up. The outcome was the devlopers were told to bring it on, and were advised by many solicitors that if they took this route then they would need to enforce all infringements. They gave up, and IIRC there has been no action taken against anyone in the 15 yrs or so of the development.


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## 104481

Hi Freetochat,

Your response follows my husbands line of thinking - that in the case of covenant breaches all householders should be brought in line not just us. The vast majority of houses have visible satelite dishes. The tenanted house next door to my neighbour has had a skip outside for months now but ironically skips are not mentioned in the covenant.

Coco


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## 97993

Then have you M/h Re decaled 
Coco's waste management and Skip Hire
Fill to level only NO FIRES
My humble attempt at humour, it looks as though you needed a larf :lol:
Geo


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## 104481

Hi Geo,

The answer at last! LOL.

Coco.


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## 104930

*Parking Outside own home*

I am having a similar problem ( previous post ) But my problem is with a Housing Officer, the neighbours were absolutely fine with where my vehicle was parked, then after a year i received notification that i was in breach of my tenancy agreement ( housing association tenant) so i have moved my van onto the road( approx 3 feet) now the neighbours aren't so happy as i am taking up room for 3 cars, but they don't blame me, which is good.
But I have to say, when i bought my van, i probably should have done more research, i had always considered owning a van would give me a sense of freedom, but unfortunately with all the rules and regulations around owning, parking and overnighting, i am becoming increasingly more depressed by the whole experience, and have even contemplated selling my van.


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## DavidRon

Hi Coco
Sorry to be joining in so late, I've been away. I've not read all the advice because there's so much of it and I've not had the time.

Someone may have already mentioned it, but if you intend putting your MH into storage don't forget to inform your insurance company as the change of post code may make a difference.

David


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## thieawin

Hello coco

I am concerned that you are acting on the advice, including legal advice, on here instead of taking proper legal advice from your conveyancing solicitor

First of all local authorities do not impose covenants or enforce them. It is nothing to do with the local authority unless having the motorhome there permanently might be a planning matter. That position is very unlikely.

Secondly there is no criminal law involved unless this neighbour is breaching the public order act and breaking the law towards you

Thirdly there are two types of restrictive covenants. The first is enforceable by the developer only. Is this chap the developer? Is the developer still in existence? If it is then is a building company going to want to waste time enforcing the covenant against you. It doesn't matter if the estate road is private or adopted. 

There is another much rarer type of restrictive covenant, which has to use very specific words to be created and passed on, and is very unusual, because no one wants everyone to have these powers especially as it could fall into the hands of someone like your neighbour. This is an estate covenant and it does mean all the owners on the estate can enforce against each other. It is very unlikely to be your case, that is why you must check.

Of course he can keep a caravan, folding or motorised in his garage out of sight. That is not what the covenants are about. You say your covenant is specific about caravans. The local government definition has no bearing That definition is only for that act. Nothing else. A court would look at the dictionary ordinary meaning of caravan, and at what your vehicle actually is before deciding, if you were ever sued, a. if the covenant was enforceable and b. if what you had was a caravan. Restrictive covenants are enforced narrowly,if the person who imposed it and his lawyer wanted it to apply to motor caravans or HGV's it should be spelled out specifically


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## dbh1961

*parking - covenant*

We've just moved house, and there is a similar covenant on ours.

Our solicitor said that it would be best to assume that a motorhome (aka motorcaravan) would be interpreted as being the same as a caravan, BUT...

If we didn't block lines of sight near a junction, and we didn't cause an obstruction, then we could simply park it on the PUBLIC road (you can't do it with a towed caravan, but you can with a taxed motor vehicle).

Our solicitor suggested:

1) Park it on the drive, and see if anyone complains.
2) If anyone does complain, talk to them, and suggest you'll put fencing / screening up to hide it. Or move it to a position acceptable to them
3) If they're just downright awkward, park it outside their house, on the road, and say that you'll move it back to your own drive, if they'll now accept that's OK
4) In our case (and I appreciate not everyone's) the covenant was between the houseowner, and the original builder. It was actually in the builder's personal name (not the business name) and he's now dead. Although the houseowner bit is transferred on change of ownership, the builder side isn't, so the covenant died with the builder.

Best advice, for peace of mind, is to talk to a solicitor, then, armed with the facts you have to decide how much you value getting on with neighbours vs convenience of having van close to hand. If it's just one neighbour out of many, I wouldn't worry about upsetting them. If its a few neighbours, then I'd suggest you accept the democratic view, and find storage.

For info, our neighbours all still talk to us, and no-one minds the m/home being on our drive - I guess we're lucky


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## 2kias

Chrisdy said:


> Coco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took delivery 6 weeks ago of brand new motorhome and our neighbour has said he wants to take us to court. There is a restrictive covenant which forbids caravans but doesn't mention motorhomes. Our motorhome is parked on our property off road but he has started to photograph it and us (on occasions) day and night. He keeps calling it a caravan but we keep stating that our motorhome has a completely different status in law. My log book says it is a private HGV. I am so hoping we are right - he dialed 999 this evening to ask the police to take it away!
> 
> I am interested in finding out if you know of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted by a neighbour in the civil courts after shelling out on our lovely new motorhome I don't really want a court battle!
> 
> Any help appreciated,
> 
> Coco.
> 
> 
> 
> We have a similar covenant on all the properties in our small close of 12 houses. The wording on ours is "caravans or similar items". While not mentioning motorhomes specifically, the covenant is quite clear that such vehicles should not routinely be parked in full view of the neighbouring properties. There are 2 of us who own MHs and neither of us would consider parking them on our drives permanently, as we wish to retain good relations with our neighbours. While it may not be in the specific, it certainly would be against the spirit of the covenant. The only MH that might be considered as not coming under the spirit of the covenant would be one that is small enough to be used regularly as your primary means of transport.
> 
> Unless yours falls into the latter category, then why, knowing that there is a covenant against such vehicles, do you think it is fair for you to ignore it? Such restrictions are normally there for a reason. While the police will not get involved since it is a civil matter, courts have been known to uphold such covenants, and you would likely have to prove that your MH was not just used for holidays, etc, in the same manner as a caravan. The fact that it falls into a different licencing category is rather incidental - it is the use that would have to be proved to be different (as indicated above). Why can't you find a nearby storage facility and avoid all the hastle?
Click to expand...

I agree! We have a similar agrrement in our deeds and although we don't think it now applies we feel that it is an imposition to park our van for more than a few days. None of our neighbours have complained and the last thing we want to do is fall out with them. We store ours most of the year when we are not away in it which we are now in the Loire Valley.
Why upset the neighbours for a few quid a week storage costs!
I would object if my neighbour put a caravan on his drive.


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## 98060

*neighbour trouble*

Please don't worry , if its; day light you are not blocking him/her for having he ain't got a chance in hell of you moving your pride and joy. Let him take photos, drawings measurements, just ignore him/her and get on with your life. If you own your own property and not leased , tell him her to off.

Don't get stressed enjoy life let him her have the heart attack , or email me on [email protected] I used o be a debt collector I can handle this for you for a small sum,

GRaham


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