# Justifying the costs



## Snelly

As a new RV owner, its easy to get bogged down with worry over running costs. This was our main concern when taking her on. But after the first weekend away, all those worries evaporated as we enjoyed all the luxury and space she had to offer. Our favorite sentances spoken to eachother this weekend were:

"We could live in this"

"Wow, here's the engine"

"It costs what it costs, who cares..."

I've just sat here working out what it would of cost to get to the France rally in her and back again (in diesel at 88p per litre), working on the principle of 10mpg urban and 14mpg motorway & a roads. The price for 505.5 miles in the RV would be (according to autoroute):

£151.58

Using the same route again, but changing to our europeans fuel economy, 18mpg urban and 24mpg motorways and a roads, it returns a figure of:

£87.73

So it would of cost us £63.85 extra in the RV for our week away in France... in my eyes a small price to pay for what you get with the RV.

The little local weekends away have an even smaller difference. I worked out the valentines meet cost me £10 more in fuel than the Dethleffs would of and that tenner was worth shelling out in my opinion.

Of course for those of you who like to be accurate, there is the extra running costs of an RV in respect of slightly higher insurance and maintainance bills... but when you compare american to european, you get a lot more bang for your buck??

Let the arguments begin.... :lol:


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## LC1962

Enjoy it Shane and be proud of it - after all, why the heck not enjoy what you graft for? You can't take it with you!


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## Rapide561

*Rv running cost*

Hi

Let the arguments begin - well there are no arguments really.

Biggest problem for me with an RV - amongst others - would be site access. So many around the Lake for example are not even accessible for my new van. Having battled around Italy in a 12 metre coach on dozens of occasions proves it can be done however.

Storage could be more expensive too more those that might need it.

General maintenance costs - I don't know.

For Euro tours, there may be increased shipping costs and also a variant at the toll booth.

Puzzling thing for me is the relative poor fuel economy of an RV. I have travelled on coaches with 13 litre engines, a machine weighing about 16 tonnes when fully loaded and yielded 16 - 18 mpg. Presumably the gear ratios are different. Maybe someone could put a rear engine DAF into an RV!

All these factors though are relative to the vans use etc, and of course the benefit of space that the RV brings.

Russell


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## DABurleigh

There's no right or wrong answer. The size/ layout of a motorhome is the definition of compromise! As long as it does what you want in practice, then it is "right".

I caution equally against someone considering an RV when I get the vibes they are impressed by the interior space, but haven't considered access and fuel consumption as potential inhibitors, as I do when a couple entertain prolonged touring in northern Europe in a small camper.

Dave


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## zaskar

*Re: Rv running cost*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Puzzling thing for me is the relative poor fuel economy of an RV. I have travelled on coaches with 13 litre engines, a machine weighing about 16 tonnes when fully loaded and yielded 16 - 18 mpg. Presumably the gear ratios are different. Maybe someone could put a rear engine DAF into an RV!
> Russell


Ohhhhhhh PLEASE!!!!!!!!  
Can you imagine what a British designer could do with 6.5 litres of V8 Diesel!!!!!! ? 8O 
He'd put you on the flippin' moon at 30MPG!, not poncing up the M6 at 55 cos your wallets having a heart attack!


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## Rapide561

*Economy*

Hi Zasker

So I take it then that the 6.5 could be tweeked etc?

I do not know, I just raised the point by comparing the RV to a much heavier vehicle etc?

Russell


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## kijana

Or a Japanese motorcycle engine builder?

My VFR got a reliable 100 hp out of 750cc, fuel burn 45mpg.

So 3 VFR engines in the Hurricane would give me Triton engine power and 15mpg :roll:


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## zaskar

*Re: Economy*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi Zasker
> So I take it then that the 6.5 could be tweeked etc?
> I do not know, I just raised the point by comparing the RV to a much heavier vehicle etc?
> Russell


I'm fairly sure it could by those who know. Unfortunately i dont!  
I'd also add that the 6.5TD V8 is now quite an old design and any tweeks are more likely to be in the form of more power rather than better economy which is a shame cos if I wanna race, I'll buy a Ferrari ! 8O 
The (comparatively) new V10 Triton PETROL is rumoured to be getting almost the same MPG as the old 6.5 DIESEL and be MUCH more powerful.

Given 
a/ the current diesel prices
b/ our limited anual milage 
c/ lower initial cost of a petrol powered coach as opposed to a diesel

makes me wonder if my next RV might be petrol, something which I would NEVER cave contemplated 5 years ago!

The benefits of running a diesel RV arew simply being erroded. At one time, a Diesel engines biggest benefit was longevity, especially in large RV's but I'm not sure even that is true anymore with current build standards and quality.


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## Snelly

How does the triton compare torque wise?


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Hi

Wandering off the fuel only side, the shipping cost probably would not vary if you use the tunnel. I think the call a "motorhome" a "motorhome" irrespective of size.

But what price can you put on your pleasure - you can't.

That has to be the only real answer.

Russell


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## 102172

Also, interestingly (well, perhaps interestingly.....) I found the RV cheaper to insure than any prospective European motorhome. Perhaps because you get so much more for your cash with the RV you would have to pay a lot more for a European 'equivalent' and hence the higher insurance costs..........

Also, as US RVs are usually fairly lacking in electronic trickery, unlike most European vehicles these days, servicing costs are likely to be lower as there is less to go wrong. When something does go wrong it is more likely to be mechanical and the only specialist tool you'll need is a big 'aimer! Alright, simplistic but you get the point.

Cheers.


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## LC1962

Snelly said:


> How does the triton compare torque wise?


This might give you some idea shane.....scroll down to engine specification

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/superduty/features/specs/


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## vicdicdoc

Shane,
Have you considered thinking about a bulk LPG tank to fuel the engine, [after the initial purchase cost of the tank], the price of LPG is half that of petrol, therefore you'd get twice the milage per Litre / gallon [as near as anyway]


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## Snelly

vicdicdoc said:


> Shane,
> Have you considered thinking about a bulk LPG tank to fuel the engine, [after the initial purchase cost of the tank], the price of LPG is half that of petrol, therefore you'd get twice the milage per Litre / gallon [as near as anyway]


Not a good idea with a diesel... :lol: Although, i've seen an article where they got a diesel to run on LPG...


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## Snelly

paulmj said:


> Also, interestingly (well, perhaps interestingly.....) I found the RV cheaper to insure than any prospective European motorhome. Perhaps because you get so much more for your cash with the RV you would have to pay a lot more for a European 'equivalent' and hence the higher insurance costs..........
> 
> Also, as US RVs are usually fairly lacking in electronic trickery, unlike most European vehicles these days, servicing costs are likely to be lower as there is less to go wrong. When something does go wrong it is more likely to be mechanical and the only specialist tool you'll need is a big 'aimer! Alright, simplistic but you get the point.
> 
> Cheers.


Maybe its my age (30), but the cheapest quote I got was £668 fully comp. There was slightly cheaper quotes, but the cover wasn't as good.

My european cost under £300 for the year. So theres a marked difference. I did notice most RV insurers ask how old you are right at the beginning, many won't insure you if your under 30.


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## zaskar

[quote="Snelly
Maybe its my age (30), but the cheapest quote I got was £668 fully comp. There was slightly cheaper quotes, but the cover wasn't as good.

[/quote]

does that include breakdown (europe wide) or have you gone elsewhere for that?


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## olley

vicdicdoc said:


> Shane,
> Have you considered thinking about a bulk LPG tank to fuel the engine, [after the initial purchase cost of the tank], the price of LPG is half that of petrol, therefore you'd get twice the milage per Litre / gallon [as near as anyway]


Hi Vic it's a diesel, they can be converted but the cost saving are small if at all, with a very long payback time. Also LPG doesn't have the same energy as petrol or Diesel, up to about 30% less.

Olley


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## 97993

> How does the triton compare torque wise?


We'll have a race at newark Shane 
Sponsors wanted for fuel costs 
my Triton V10 boast it has 310 BHP, as for torque I aint got a clue it shifts the Mirada no bother and thats with me wallet on board too :lol:
Oh and im getting 55-60 Mpg (thats what i told Pam Shhhhhhhhhh) :lol: 
Geo
Edit just checked Lindas spect heet 372BHP place your bets please


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## 102098

Hi Snelly, 

no need to justify.... 
If it's what you want and are happy with the slightly increased cost, then it's all good. 

Hope you enjoy your new toy immensly!


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Shane

Are you over 7500 kgs? I thought most RVs that were diesel powered were over 7500. Stress the word MOST, not all.

Your looks like Scotjimlands and I recall his weighed in at about 8250.

Russell


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## Snelly

*Re: RV*



Rapide561 said:


> Shane
> 
> Are you over 7500 kgs? I thought most RVs that were diesel powered were over 7500. Stress the word MOST, not all.
> 
> Your looks like Scotjimlands and I recall his weighed in at about 8250.
> 
> Russell


I recon it does... im in the process of sorting out my lgv lessons and test as we speak.


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## Snelly

zaskar said:


> [quote="Snelly
> Maybe its my age (30), but the cheapest quote I got was £668 fully comp. There was slightly cheaper quotes, but the cover wasn't as good.


does that include breakdown (europe wide) or have you gone elsewhere for that?[/quote]

Yeah, thats with full european/UK breakdown with the AA (special vehicle policy) and unlimited europe green card and unlimited glass cover. They wasn't bothered that it was kept on a farm, they just stipulated it must have cat2 immobiliser fitted. Thats with safeguard.


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## LC1962

Geo said:


> How does the triton compare torque wise?
> 
> 
> 
> We'll have a race at newark Shane
> Sponsors wanted for fuel costs
> my Triton V10 boast it has 310 BHP, as for torque I aint got a clue it shifts the Mirada no bother and thats with me wallet on board too :lol:
> Oh and im getting 55-60 Mpg (thats what i told Pam Shhhhhhhhhh) :lol:
> Geo
> Edit just checked Lindas spect heet 372BHP place your bets please
Click to expand...

Hows about arranging a meet at Santa Pod.......see how quick you can do the quarter mile in your respective RVs :lol: :lol:


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## Snelly

Santa Pod isn't long enough...


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## 101411

All this analysis about RV running costs is very interesting, however a realistic view must be taken, your average RV weight between 5-8 tonnes and is as aerodynamic as a house brick. If you want 30-40mpg buy a VW Golf turbo diesel. Very economical but a bit of a bugger to have a shower in!!

My friend has a 3.5ltr petrol Mitsubishi Shogun and tows a 25 foot double axle caravan. He gets 10-12 mpg out of it and doesn't have anywhere near the facilities or space my Chateau has. I get more mpg from my RV with more space, more comfort and all the convenience of the on board systems and without towing a snail behind me!!

Having looked on here for European running costs which seem to average about 18-24ishmpg the difference in my opinion is so small its not worth loosing any sleep over. 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter wether you drive an RV, a Hymer or a car/caravan combo you still have to put fuel in it and decide if the features from any option fits your requirements. If putting fuel in your vehicle is a problem.................buy a bike and a tent!!!!!!

Dazzer


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## G2EWS

Hi Snelly,

Congrats on your recent purchase - which I missed - of an RV.

I am sure we will convince everyone that it is more fun! Not having to worry what you put in before you set off!

Met a chap buying latest MMM on Sunday and discussed our MH's, he said 'yours is a holiday villa on wheels'. Good description!

Linda,

When I took my Winnie to a friend for servicing he said 'Chevy 454, brilliant, we used to use those on dragsters at Santa Pod' So I am getting my 7.5L V8 lump tuned! Tee Hee!

Regards

Chris


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## baldlygo

*Re: Rv running cost*



Rapide561 said:


> Puzzling thing for me is the relative poor fuel economy of an RV. I have travelled on coaches with 13 litre engines, a machine weighing about 16 tonnes when fully loaded and yielded 16 - 18 mpg.


Could it be that they are derived from a place where the cost of fuel has been the drivers least consideration :?:
Paul :tomcat:


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## olley

Hi just some figures comparing US with European engines;
6L Ford powerstroke Diesel 325 [email protected] rpm [email protected]
4.6L Man common Rail Diesel 206 [email protected] rpm [email protected]

Its the BHP figure which is important for heavy vehicles, how Man get 612 BHP out of an engine around 30% smaller I don't know.

Olley


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## 101411

I think its got a lot to do with the American mindset!!

Just look at how they build RVs compared to European manufacturers.

I think they build a box put everything inside it load it up with water,lpg etc and weigh it. Then go and find a suitable vehicle to drive it round on!!

But the Euro guys say "max weight is to be no more than 3500kgs". Lets make everything as thin and flimsy as possible fill everything with helium to make it even lighter and then fit no creature comforts (Oh yes and charge twice what an RV costs!!!!).

I think its the same with the engines....The main question is, "What does it need to shift??". The yanks think lets keep it simple with tried and tested technology (by that i mean 30 years old!!!) and then just throw fuel at it by the bucket load!! And at the price they pay for fuel who cares if they up the engine size by another 1000cc to get an extra 10 BHP out of it??

Dazzer


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## olley

Hi Dazzer they fit the Man into GVW 8.8 Concord Liner, which when I first read the engine size I thought "that won't pull the skin off a rice pudding" but with those BHP figures it will.  See >>>HERE<<<

No idea of the price though. 8O

Olley


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## Snelly

Lovely bit of kit Olley, nice commercial photography too.


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## 98452

My family need are large with me at 6ft 5in and 2 Great Danes plus I care for my aged father who suffers from Alzheimer's. (Irinas the misses is the only normal one :roll: )

Had 3 brand new caravans up to the largest Brit van I could get and still no good.

The RV was my only option and it cost far less than I originally thought it would and the RV is in fact slightly cheaper to insure than my last van  

I used to get 17 MPG towing from my Kia Sorento and 22 ish solo. Now my wife likes to shop (you will see this when I start rallying with you guys) and will see that i do more miles on arrival at our destination than getting there so 10mpg out on my petrol RV and 30+mpg out of the tow car will work out roughly the same and size and comfort wise no theres contests.

Where else could an odd ball family as mine go away whenever we want and wherever we want in so much style and I love captaining my BUS :lol: :lol: 

I do envy the diesel guys though as filling a monster petrol vehicle can get tight in petrol stations whereas the diesel bods can use the HGV facilities.

Second with all the new RV's appearing make my baby look slightly dated  

I did buy this vehicle as a starter RV but fallen in love with the layout and build quality and it's only done a very low mileage so now considering not bothering to change within the first year as planned.


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## sersol

Hi Shane,great looking bus,so are you legally allowed to drive it on your licence at the moment ?. 
Nice pictures BTW.
Gary


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## Snelly

sersol said:


> Hi Shane,great looking bus,so are you legally allowed to drive it on your licence at the moment ?.
> Nice pictures BTW.
> Gary


Hi Gary

Thanks for the nice comments.

The weight issue is an ongoing concern... watch this space.


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## 97993

Linda I dont think there are re fueling options at Santa Pod, so 1/4 mile is out of the question :lol: 
Geo


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## Snelly

Whats this turning into... clash of the rally assistants?? :lol:

We'd need sponsorship to pay for the fuel!

I recon i'll get an extra second shaved off my time if I took all the iron mongery off.... :lol:


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## 97993

Linda I dont think there are re fueling options at Santa Pod, so 1/4 mile is out of the question :lol: 
Geo


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## glacier

I've been offered this latest German import. Diesel pusher apparently...not sure of the BHP?

Dealer says it corners like it's on rails!   

Has something of the Classic VW Camper about it don't you think?


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## Snelly

That looks a bit like a deltic


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## Pusser

I dunno which direction I come from as regards RV's. I love the look of them. I love the space and goodies that are standard but just as much as I love those features, I hate the grotesque fuel consumption and the cost of it of course, I would have to tow yet another vehicle to get to the sort of places I like to visit and I think we are entering an era where vehicles that are heavy on fuel will possibly have the same problems as those that use animals to test medicine on or smokers smoking in public.

But then I worry about everything and put to rights nothing.


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## 98064

Justyfing the costs of an RV, we went straight from tent to RV (suddenly and without a plan, well we'd thought maybe 5-6 years down the line we may do the 'motorhome' thing) and love it, costs we'll being our is an oldie 10 mpg is the best we get but what the hell, it's just so much fun, besides I'm/we're petrol heads and the sound of that 5.9 V8 throbbing (easy) away is well worth the running costs on it's own. Being a simple old beast (the RV, we'll me to  ) servicing costs are minimal so undoubtedly it all evens out in the end.
Deviating slightly I fear Pusser makes a very valid point so I'm very much of the enjoy it while you can attitude.


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## 116388

Great thread.

I am contemplating buting a 1984 coachbuilt RV that has a GMC 6.2 V8 diesel (covered 56k miles) which the owner claims does 16 in town and 25 on the open road. Are these figures achievable? Seems too good to be true. It's a 22ft coachbuilt so may be lighter than those huge RVs.

Shane.....


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## artona

Hi Shane

you have a pm

stew


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## Snelly

I think those figures are optimistic...


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