# Why do sites charge per person when you have your own....



## Snunkie

Being a family of 6 I'm often astounded at the price most campsites work out to for us. I'm so fed up with being charged per person. Why is that so?

I could understand it if we were in a tent as each of us would need to use the campsites facilities, but in a motorhome we are completely self contained and have no need to use the campsite's toilet and shower facilities. I can also understand it where the sites have entertainment and or pools for example, but in fact the 2 sites we use regularly with indoor pools and evening entertainment do not charge per person and we have often stayed for as little as £10 per night for the 6 of us.

Why do campsites insist on charging per person for Motorhomes and caravans? 

My other big annoyance is 'free hookup'. I don't need hookup for a 2 night stay so I want to pay less for my pitch! There is no such thing as free hookup, it's already in the cost of the pitch so you lay for it whether you use it or not.

Rant over. For now anyway.....

Lucy


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## peaky

Im wondering wheather I would get further discount when touring as most pitches based on 2 people when its only me, will argue that one when I get there !!


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## Rapide561

*Pitches*



peaky said:


> Im wondering wheather I would get further discount when touring as most pitches based on 2 people when its only me, will argue that one when I get there !!


Yes do so - I do and usually "win"

I am all for paying per person. Sometimes I am on my tod, other times there are two of us.

I do not use as much hot water as a family for example so it seems fair that the costs are per person.

Russell


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## Jennifer

I, like Peaky, am solo. I do find it hard to accept that some sites charge for pitch with up to six people, awning, dog. I do not have a dog and do not have an awning, so, as, with all things in life, it is my choice as to whether I stay on such sites. If we all chose sites suitable to our own individual preferences, the balance would equal out.

Lucy, if you do not use the facilities, why do you not wild camp? Those that do, prefer that experience.

Jenny


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## nicholsong

*Re: Why do sites charge per person when you have your own...*



Snunkie said:


> Being a family of 6 I'm often astounded at the price most campsites work out to for us. I'm so fed up with being charged per person. Why is that so?
> 
> I could understand it if we were in a tent as each of us would need to use the campsites facilities, but in a motorhome we are completely self contained and have no need to use the campsite's toilet and shower facilities. I can also understand it where the sites have entertainment and or pools for example, but in fact the 2 sites we use regularly with indoor pools and evening entertainment do not charge per person and we have often stayed for as little as £10 per night for the 6 of us.
> 
> Why do campsites insist on charging per person for Motorhomes and caravans?
> 
> My other big annoyance is 'free hookup'. I don't need hookup for a 2 night stay so I want to pay less for my pitch! There is no such thing as free hookup, it's already in the cost of the pitch so you lay for it whether you use it or not.
> 
> Rant over. For now anyway.....
> 
> Lucy


Lucy

I can sympathise with your position since on the odd occasion, years ago, I have stayed on a site solo I did not use any facilities other than cassette dump and water fill.

However your post leaves me wondering why you need a site at all?

Geoff


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## barryd

Got to agree with Jenny. Vote with your feet. Wild camp or use CL sites. Many of the basic ones without hookup are a fiver a night regardless of how many are in the van and are often in superb places.


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## 747

The only downside to wilding and using CL's is that you might bump into Barry. :lol:


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## robi49

*site costs*

Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
robi


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## nicholsong

747 said:


> The only downside to wilding and using CL's is that you might bump into Barry. :lol:


Or Us or, God Forbid. both Barry and us! - the only time Barry and we were together was on a CL and it was otherwise empty, I wonder why? :roll: :lol:

Geoff


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only downside to wilding and using CL's is that you might bump into Barry. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Or Us or, God Forbid. both Barry and us! - the only time Barry and we were together was on a CL and it was otherwise empty, I wonder why? :roll: :lol:
> 
> Geoff
Click to expand...

I wonder why that is? Im on an Aire right now in the south of France and last night it was full but this morning all the vans around us have gone. I dont understand. I played them Stairway to Heaven at least three times last night on the Guitar. Stood on the roof and everything.

Mind you diving off the roof onto the French vans awning next door probably wasnt the best of ideas and then running around at midnight shouting "Behold, I am the reincarnation of Jimi Hendrix" didnt go down well either.

You just cant please some people!


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## Spiritofherald

Not all sites charge per person so the choice is entirely down to me, but I never use my motorhome shower when on a site as the site showers tend to be much better than the one in the van (lack of room, sprinkle rather than a shower and dampness in the van). Likewise the toilet, why fill my tank and all that necessitates in emptying etc when I can use a perfectly normal loo and have running water whenever I need it without having to keep an eye on the water gauge. Same again with washing-up facilities.

What I wouldn’t want is complex pricing system so I can’t work out in advance what my stay is likely to cost me.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only downside to wilding and using CL's is that you might bump into Barry. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Or Us or, God Forbid. both Barry and us! - the only time Barry and we were together was on a CL and it was otherwise empty, I wonder why? :roll: :lol:
> 
> Geoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wonder why that is? Im on an Aire right now in the south of France and last night it was full but this morning all the vans around us have gone. I dont understand. I played them Stairway to Heaven at least three times last night on the Guitar. Stood on the roof and everything.
> 
> Mind you diving off the roof onto the French vans awning next door probably wasnt the best of ideas and then running around at midnight shouting "Behold, I am the reincarnation of Jimi Hendrix" didnt go down well either.
> 
> You just cant please some people!
Click to expand...

Barry

Please, please get Michelle to post the video on here :lol:

I knew you were a reincarnation - but Jimi Hendrix?  :lol:

Geoff


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## Spiritofherald

Just to add a bit more to my previous post to say I do empathise with the original poster with a family of 6. This is obviously an big expense and I think there should be a cap on the cost per family as long as they're in one van, tent, etc.


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## Stanner

The answer is "USE THE FACILITIES" we do.

Why fill OUR loo up and use up OUR loo fluid?
Why use OUR gas for water heating?
Why use OUR water for showering?
Why fill OUR waste tank up?

WHY?

We have just checked into a "Drive-in" Camper Park to do just that and we will make sure we get our 8€ worth.


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## Bica

If you belong to the CCC why not use their temporary holiday sites. (THS) We helped steward one in the Cotswolds this summer which had 24hr toilets and showers and was £6.50 pun


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## raynipper

One of the pleasures of RVs. Totally self contained for about a week.
I still can't go use the 'public' facilities when I have my own personal to hand.
Ray.


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## nicholsong

raynipper said:


> One of the pleasures of RVs. Totally self contained for about a week.
> I still can't go use the 'public' facilities when I have my own personal to hand.
> Ray.


Ray

Is the spade tucked up your jumper, or elsewhere :wink: :lol:


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## nicholsong

Stanner said:


> The answer is "USE THE FACILITIES" we do.
> 
> Why fill OUR loo up and use up OUR loo fluid?
> Why use OUR gas for water heating?
> Why use OUR water for showering?
> Why fill OUR waste tank up?
> 
> WHY?
> 
> We have just checked into a "Drive-in" Camper Park to do just that and we will make sure we get our 8€ worth.


Stanner

There are some answers to your four Qs

1 I do not want to dress up at 0500 to walk 100m in the rain to have a pee when I have an en-suite facility and can empty it/them (we carry a spare cassette) before leaving the site.

2 Some of us do not have electric water heating but I think the cost of gas for heating one shower would be about 5p. As for showering in a communal block, I gave that up when I left school/rugby club. Maybe that is why some of us have MotorHOMES and not campervans.

3 Use the tank water and fill up before leaving. I do not think that sites charge differently for using water from the shower or from the hose tap.

4 Likewise dump the waste water before leaving.

Just another point of view.

Please what is a "Drive-in" Camper Park?

Geoff


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## Stanner

nicholsong said:


> Please what is a "Drive-in" Camper Park?
> 
> Geoff


http://www.driveincamperpark.nl/

And yes I agree with all your points and that is the reason I have a m/home as well.

BUT I don't use them to the exclusion of all else, they are there for when there isn't a _convenient_ alternative. 
IF the alternative is there AND it is convenient to use, as it VERY much is here, then it gets used.
The showers and toilets here are way above the standard of ANY motorhome I've seen.


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## nicholsong

Stanner, thanks.

I was just intrigued by their name 'Drive-in' - how else could one get there? :roll: 

Geoff


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## raynipper

nicholsong said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the pleasures of RVs. Totally self contained for about a week.
> I still can't go use the 'public' facilities when I have my own personal to hand.
> Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray
> 
> Is the spade tucked up your jumper, or elsewhere :wink: :lol:
Click to expand...

It's not me but a German nicking the seats........... :roll:

Ray.


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## nicholsong

raynipper said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the pleasures of RVs. Totally self contained for about a week.
> I still can't go use the 'public' facilities when I have my own personal to hand.
> Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray
> 
> Is the spade tucked up your jumper, or elsewhere :wink: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not me but a German nicking the seats........... :roll:
> 
> Ray.
Click to expand...

Is that so he can put his own down early next morning in the best cubicle - then go off for breakfast?  :lol:

I never win on that one, even in the privacy of our MH - Basia always beats me to it :roll: :lol:

Geoff


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## barryd

raynipper said:


> It's not me but a German nicking the seats........... :roll:
> 
> Ray.


Ah ha! Typical! I wondered who nicked all the loo seats in France. The cheeky beggers have actually nicked the whole toilet in most of them and just left a hole in the ground. 

I wonder if there is a shortage of bogs in Germany then. Could be a gap in the market there.

I also wonder where all the Germans are this year. Only seen two all summer. Bet they are all at the coast, where Im heading tomorrow. Spreading their stuff all over the Aires! :twisted:


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## Jennifer

Why do you boys do that?

Lucy raised a valid question, the thread started off with "Why" and the thread has now been hijacked and has deteriorated into toilets seats and Germans.

This could of course be one of the reasons so many members are leaving MHF!!!

Jenny.


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## raynipper

Jennifer said:


> Why do you boys do that?
> 
> Lucy raised a valid question, the thread started off with "Why" and the thread has now been hijacked and has deteriorated into toilets seats and Germans.
> 
> This could of course be one of the reasons so many members are leaving MHF!!!
> 
> Jenny.


Your right of course Jenny.
But how many posts can a thread take stating the obvious or opposite point of view without becoming boring.?

I guess after the initial pros and cons we diverse. I do have a story of ten in an F1 shower.!!!!

Ray.


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## 747

Re the THS reply. The low cost is for one unit and 2 adults. There is a small charge for any additional adults. At least with the C&CC there is.

I didn't know there were lots of members leaving?

What has Barry done now? :roll:


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## raynipper

747 said:


> Re the THS reply. The low cost is for one unit and 2 adults. There is a small charge for any additional adults. At least with the C&CC there is.
> 
> I didn't know there were lots of members leaving?
> 
> What has Barry done now? :roll:


What hasn't he done.?? 
Broke almost everything on his van. Annoyed every nationality till they leave. What more.?

Ray.
Opppsss, sorry Jenny.


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## barryd

raynipper said:


> Jennifer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you boys do that?
> 
> Lucy raised a valid question, the thread started off with "Why" and the thread has now been hijacked and has deteriorated into toilets seats and Germans.
> 
> This could of course be one of the reasons so many members are leaving MHF!!!
> 
> Jenny.
> 
> 
> 
> Your right of course Jenny.
> But how many posts can a thread take stating the obvious or opposite point of view without becoming boring.?
> 
> I guess after the initial pros and cons we diverse. I do have a story of ten in an F1 shower.!!!!
> 
> Ray.
Click to expand...

In fact the thread would have dissapeared completely. Sometimes a daft comment or going off topic might attract a serious poster to add their opinion or input as it puts the thread back at the top of the first page. If people are leaving MHF because some users have a bit of a laugh mid thread do we really want them? :roll:


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## Dunston

you just cant understand some people eh Barryd or should I say Jimmy.


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## nicholsong

Jennifer said:


> Why do you boys do that?
> 
> Lucy raised a valid question, the thread started off with "Why" and the thread has now been hijacked and has deteriorated into toilets seats and Germans.
> 
> This could of course be one of the reasons so many members are leaving MHF!!!
> 
> Jenny.


Jenny

You said Lucy asked 'Why?'

I thought it was more of a polite mini-rant rather than a question.

Had it been a real question maybe it should have been on the forum

Campsiteowners.com

I think barryD answered quite well in that most of the serious responses had been delivered.

Next question?

Geoff


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## peaky

ok STILL a bit off topic but as we are talking showers what I want to know is why members like them soo much ?? I agree you pay for pitch water etc BUT when we hired a van in uk and used a campsite for a week in devon (oct time )my friend used the facilities and I used the vans, now after 3 days I used the showers, my take on the experience;
ok it had been raining, the floor was covered in watery mud and trod in grass cuttings, inside the shower block it was freezing, I checked all showers out, they were all full of cobwebs, and AGGH HAIR IN THE PLUGHOLE AND FLOOR AREA !!!ID just worn shoes to the block, tried to stick to the duckboard for the shower I had committed to have and then there was nowhere to sit and dry my feet before walking out,i felt dirtier than when I came in. my only time I have used shower facilities, I hope in warmer climbs it may be different ?? not keen though reminded me of showers after school swimming in winter when I was an infant.


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## barryd

raynipper said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re the THS reply. The low cost is for one unit and 2 adults. There is a small charge for any additional adults. At least with the C&CC there is.
> 
> I didn't know there were lots of members leaving?
> 
> What has Barry done now? :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> What hasn't he done.??
> Broke almost everything on his van. Annoyed every nationality till they leave. What more.?
> 
> Ray.
> Opppsss, sorry Jenny.
Click to expand...

Your forgetting I fixed the water pump in the van!!!!

The broken sat nav is now in with the rice drying out but it still dont work!


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## Spiritofherald

peaky said:


> ok STILL a bit off topic but as we are talking showers what I want to know is why members like them soo much ?? I agree you pay for pitch water etc BUT when we hired a van in uk and used a campsite for a week in devon (oct time )my friend used the facilities and I used the vans, now after 3 days I used the showers, my take on the experience;
> ok it had been raining, the floor was covered in watery mud and trod in grass cuttings, inside the shower block it was freezing, I checked all showers out, they were all full of cobwebs, and AGGH HAIR IN THE PLUGHOLE AND FLOOR AREA !!!ID just worn shoes to the block, tried to stick to the duckboard for the shower I had committed to have and then there was nowhere to sit and dry my feet before walking out,i felt dirtier than when I came in. my only time I have used shower facilities, I hope in warmer climbs it may be different ?? not keen though reminded me of showers after school swimming in winter when I was an infant.


You need to choose better sites!


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## Stanner

Spiritofherald said:


> You need to choose better sites!


Yes, MUCH better ones


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## anneveronica

Showers on most sites are closed between 11and 12 for cleaning, I always use showers just after that, always clean then and not so busy, why everyone as up in the morning is beyond me! 
There are always some people who feel aggrieved at pricing policies, some of the suggestions made above seem to be sensible although personally the thought of 6people in one van would have me heading for the hills, alone!


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## Snunkie

Ha ha Barry, scared em off again!

Thanks all. Perhaps I need a few lessons on wild camping then. What are the rules if any? 

Can we stop in a layby for example? 
Can we stop on a housing estate?
What sort of places should we head for?

Lucy & Rich

Ps: finally uploaded an avatar so you can put faces to names!


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## Snunkie

I hadn't considered those travelling solo. That must also be annoying  :x


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## Snunkie

Ok Well, my answers to some of those points are:

Why would I walk across a field and use a public loo when I can use my own? I've got no problem with emptying it and indeed as myself and 4 children often travel without Rich that's what I have to do.
I don't want to be taking one of them to the toilet, the coming back and another decides they need the loo and so on. I wouldn't let the 2 younger ones go on their own. Our own loo is convenient for us. As is the shower. It's much easier, warmer and more convenient for us to shower the kids in the MH rather than take 4 of them with towels, change of clothes etc to a shower block. Especially in nasty weather. 
I like my own private bathroom. Myself and the kids never use the shower blocks but rich does sometimes. 

Yes, we are using more water than 2 people would but not £3.50+ per person per night. Yes we are emptying our toilet cassettes (we have a spare which is a necessity with 6 of us if we don't use a site for a couple of nights. We heat our water with gas which us cheap because we have a gaslow system and £22 of gas lasts for many trips/weeks.

I still think the extra charges are extortionate, especially as our youngest two are only 5 and 7. 

Camping is not so cheap for us but still much cheaper, more convenient and much more enjoyable than hotels and flights and its difficult to find places that accommodate a family of 6 in a room.

Plus we can sleep in our own beds and its less disruption for the children.


Lucy


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## raynipper

Snunkie said:


> Ha ha Barry, scared em off again!
> 
> Thanks all. Perhaps I need a few lessons on wild camping then. What are the rules if any?
> 
> Can we stop in a layby for example?
> Can we stop on a housing estate?
> What sort of places should we head for?
> 
> Lucy & Rich
> 
> Ps: finally uploaded an avatar so you can put faces to names!


I guess Lucy & Rich, you can stop almost anywhere you feel safe. 
OK there are places you would have to ask permission like pubs or restaurant car parks. 
Free camping as Barry is always advocating is far easier in France than UK. Apart from recognised Air's, many town market squares and car parks will tolerate campers for a night or two. Unless it's market day.!!!

Ray.


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## oldun

*Re: site costs*



robi49 said:


> Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
> As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
> One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
> robi


You are the type of camper that are really hated by campsites.

You want to stay for one night only (very expensive administration) yet you want to dump several weeks supply of waste products in their very expensive sewer system and then want to take several weeks supply of very expensive water from their taps. If we all behaved like you then campsite fees would have to triple.

Nobody owes you a living - you must learn to pay for what you take.


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## Snunkie

*Re: site costs*



oldun said:


> robi49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
> As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
> One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
> robi
> 
> 
> 
> You are the type of camper that are really hated by campsites.
> 
> You want to stay for one night only (very expensive administration) yet you want to dump several weeks supply of waste products in their very expensive sewer system and then want to take several weeks supply of very expensive water from their taps. If we all behaved like you then campsite fees would have to triple.
> 
> Nobody owes you a living - you must learn to pay for what you take.
Click to expand...

Eh? Several weeks supply? Blimey a tank of water only lasts one day with 6 of us and we have to empty every day too. Your comment's a bit harsh. We still don't use £35 worth of water or grey waste dumping in one night !


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## dlball

I think he`s replying to robi49 not you  Hope so anyhow :wink:


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## nicholsong

*Re: site costs*



oldun said:


> robi49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
> As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
> One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
> robi
> 
> 
> 
> You are the type of camper that are really hated by campsites.
> 
> You want to stay for one night only (very expensive administration) yet you want to dump several weeks supply of waste products in their very expensive sewer system and then want to take several weeks supply of very expensive water from their taps. If we all behaved like you then campsite fees would have to triple.
> 
> Nobody owes you a living - you must learn to pay for what you take.
Click to expand...

Oldun

You seem to think that stopping for only one night to service one's MH is unacceptable.

I wonder what you think of my modus operandi? I wildcamp nearly all the time as i do not like sites even for one night. However I often visit sites in the day and ask whether I can service the MH for a fee. I have only been refused once. Other reactions have been from charging 2-5 pounds to help yourself(which we reciprocated with Belgian chocs) and 'just put what you like in the charity box' - I put 3 pounds as being the average of what I had paid elsewhere.

My experience is not that I am 'hated by campsites' because I do not stay even 1 night. But I do 'pay for what I take' at the rate deemed appropriate by the campsite operator.

I am sorry if you think this behaviour of not staying for one or several nights puts up the fees, but as you said on one of your other posts last evening:-

"Surely those very people are selfish and intolerant by trying to dictate to others where or where not they should stay.

Let\'s have some live and let live."

I rest my case

Geoff


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## 747

Save your breath boys.  

He comes on here once in a while and does similar posts then disappears again for a few weeks. His speciality is dragging up older threads and making some silly statement.

Steady on Geoff, you are not very good at being 'Outraged of Surbiton'.


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## oldun

*Re: site costs*



Snunkie said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robi49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
> As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
> One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
> robi
> 
> 
> 
> You are the type of camper that are really hated by campsites.
> 
> You want to stay for one night only (very expensive administration) yet you want to dump several weeks supply of waste products in their very expensive sewer system and then want to take several weeks supply of very expensive water from their taps. If we all behaved like you then campsite fees would have to triple.
> 
> Nobody owes you a living - you must learn to pay for what you take.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eh? Several weeks supply? Blimey a tank of water only lasts one day with 6 of us and we have to empty every day too. Your comment's a bit harsh. We still don't use £35 worth of water or grey waste dumping in one night !
Click to expand...

77

My reply was a general reply to one nighters and not an attack on any body in particular. A one nighter motorhomer in general consumes more water and dumps more waste than the average of daily amounts for those on long stay.

My one query re your reply is that you seem to be implying that the only cost on a campsite is that of the water and sewage. You are ignoring salaries, taxes, insurance, electricity consume on site, maintenance and development costs and a genuine profit. There are only a few weeks in a year when the site owner can hope to run at a profit.

My friend in France. was forced two years ago to immediately upgrade his electric (which were quite new) to include boxes which had "fuse" resetting buttons on the outside. With immediate fitting the 25 boxes cost €700 EACH. |That certainly put a lage dent in your nightly fee.

Particularly in France the yearly site costs must effectively be recouped in a six week summer period. For the rest of the year the site runs at a loss (10 to 20% full) with occasional periods where it mighty break even (special holidays).


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## eddievanbitz

Well I own a campsite and wonder if the OP can suggest a better way to charge?

Unlimited? Not many of our customer would want to be on a pitch next to Mum, Dad, five teenage children, each with a friend and a couple of toddlers.

Set a maximum number (That's of course is what most Campsites do when say pitch and two people) Well that's fine lets say four people! It still wouldn't help the OP with six people and every couple would be grumbling that they should get a reduction. Solo travellers would feel even more aggrieved.

Whether we like it or not, the majority of our customers arrive as a couple, so we price our pitches accordingly. When we had the camp site built in 2005 we used certain "rules" to establish how our guests would impact on the infrastructure. 

How much hot water will we need? how much washing up hot water? how many showers, urinals, WC? How much waste will be generated, how much additional parking? How much electricity? will the supply cope when everyone puts the kettle on Saturday night after "Strictly :wink: "

All these things are calculated based on two people sharing, which is the "average" customer.

Six people using resources will impact on the site more than four or two people, that is just common sense. We are a rural site and not on mains sewerage. We have a chemical treatment plant that deals with all waste from our toilets and showers, but our chemical waste (Poo tanks) end up in two tanks. These are considered "hazardous waste" 

These have to be pumped into tanks on lorries and taken away to a specialist treatment plant. If large groups of people fill the holding tanks three times as quickly as couples a lot more money.

Our fresh water is metered, six people will use more than two people, again costing more money. 

Our WiFi is free and up to a point unlimited as works very well most of the time. We have fifty main pitches we can use, if every family have four additional users, we would have 200 additional users on our Wi-Fi which would slow the system down to snails speed.

I accept that paying extra for your children wouldn't affect the speed of the WiFi but, as the facilities are designed for a average occupancy of two, by us making a charge for additional people must dissuade larger families from staying with us. Deciding instead that some of the larger sites with more entrainment for youngsters represents better value.

This is not as financially daft as you would imagine, as our target market are singles and couples in the main. Singles and couples, in the main are happier when not surrounded by large groups, with loads of bikes, and lots of balls being thrown and the inevitable additional noise that six people must make compared to two.

I have sympathy for the OP I have four sons, so add a couple of the boys "mates" and we were a mob. Our two closest sets of family friends who our kids have grown up along side also are large families. Mike and Jules have two sets of twins and a daughter in between so that's Six and Jeff and Susy have two boys and two girls.

Lunch out was always an interesting option! Hi do you have a table for twenty please :lol:

Perhaps the restaurant analogy is a good one. My kids are virtualy grown up now and I am shocked to find out that at a youthful 52 I am to become a Granddad  in January. My fours boys all have partners so now we need a table for ten (eleven in January lol) When we take the family out for Lunch or Dinner we tend to go to different places than we would tend to go if it were just my wife and I for example.

When I had small children I could never understand pubs and restaurants not catering for or allowing in children. Now, if there are no kids in the group, we make a beeline for establishments that don't allow kids in. By the same token when our children were small we didn't have dogs and couldn't begin to understand how people could allow dogs into motorhomes. We now have two big long haired German Shepherds that love coming away with us in our motorhome. We also love dog friendly pubs now, which we would have avoided like the plague years ago.

I would rather, when not in a large group myself, park on a quiet part of a campsite away from children, and larger groups and I know that my campsite customers feel the same in the majority of cases.

So, I think that campsites, like restaurants, pubs and hotels should be selected on what your looking for at the time, and the pricing structure reflects their target market. A sign saying "Kids eat free" suggests that an establishment is actively seeking the family market. Conversely a sign saying "No Children" Say's something else :lol: 

Eddie


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## 91502

The OP feels it unfair to be charged extra as I am sure solo travellers do, the only way to suit everyone is a "pay to poo" system?
This would also have to include metered electricity, water, a fee to empty your tanks and showers on a coin/token system as many used to be.
This way would mean that if you turned up with a full tank of water, used your own facilities, no hook up and left with your loo and waste tank full you could have a vey cheap stay.
Somehow I doubt such a system would be popular?
I don't see why a family of 6 would feel unhappy they are charged more than a couple on their own?

James


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## Snunkie

Thanks for taking the time to explain Eddie. I was after a genuine answer and I do see where you're coming from and, I'm sure if it was 10 years on that would be me moaning about how the family of 6 next to us have paid the same price as us as a couple and how unfair that is....

It just seems strange to me that so many of the bigger sites that we've stayed on with pools and entertainment allow for up to 6 people in the price rather than charge per person yet when we stay in a basic field it costs us more because we're charged per person. It seems back to front to me? I would definitely expect to pay per person to use the pool etc but we so often find it to be the other way around. Is it that these sites are family orientated and they charge accordingly allowing for families? If that is the case, how come we can venture 5 miles down the road and stay at park resorts for £10 per night for all 6 of us including the use of the indoor pool and entertainment? Yet a night in a field in October can cost us £35....

Some sites have charged us as much as £7-£11 extra per child per night I can't see how my 4 young children can cost anywhere near that per night even taking into account a reasonable profit. We don't have EHU for stays of 3 nights or less so use our own gas for heating and cooking, but yes we would use more water and sewerage facilities than a couple would.

That's another thing, why do we have to pay for electric whether we have it or not on some sites? I know the site has paid to have installed but we have to make our stays as cheap as possible to be able to take 4 children away as often as we do so we try and save a bit by not having EHU but so many sites state 'free electric' or 'electric included'. Nothing in life is free and what if we don't want electric included? Where is our freedom of choice?

I'm a bit grumpy at the moment as bogged down with cough and cold hence the moany post :x


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## Snunkie

Geoff, we could do with some help on wildcamping. How do we know where we're allowed to stay and where we're not? Or do you just find somewhere so out of the way that no one would find you? :lol:


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## nicholsong

Snunkie said:


> Geoff, we could do with some help on wildcamping. How do we know where we're allowed to stay and where we're not? Or do you just find somewhere so out of the way that no one would find you? :lol:


I cannot cover the rules for various countries but let us stick to UK

I will deal first with where you cannot park overnight.

Most public CPs have restrictions((unlike France where MHs are encouraged) - you have to read the small print on the notices.

NT do not permit it but they have franchised out certain areas e.g Ilam, but that is a proper CC+C(?) campsite but one in Wiltshire is more like a French Aire.

Forestry Commission say they do not encourage it but they have no ban.

Where can you wildcamp?

There are CPs at some Nature Reserves which have no restrictions.

In general the law allows one to do anything unless it is forbidden, which would include trespass and causing an obstruction on a highway.

In more practical terms I would suggest that you stick to the following guidance which we make for ourselves.

Find the odd unofficial lay-by, probably a piece of ground/verge where cars park in the day to go fishing.

Verges of public roads.

Wide entrances to fields/forests where the MH does not obstruct access.

Quiet residential streets/cul de sacs, but only where there is space not in view of a house ( I did park recently in Germany opposite a house but their hedge was so high that they could not have seen a furniture van.

I do sometimes park in the entrance to a field but am careful to note whether there is livestock to which the farmer may need access, but where there is only half-ripe crops it is unlikely to be a problem.

Industrial estates - not ideal, but we know one near Leipzig which is next to a nice lake.

Scotland is different and much more liberal since somebody challenged and won against what were illegal notices against overnighting.

My favourite would be a bit of verge, not opposite a house, near a nice village with a pub and a good bread shop.

This only my subjective advice but I have found some wonderful spots which would beat almost any campsite. Mostly we have had cheery 'Good Morning's and waves from the locals.

Other tips

Always keep your eye out in the late afternoon for a likely spot

If you find somewhere OK, but not ideal, drive on a few miles, knowing you have a bolt-hole if nothing better turns up.

Don't panic - we have never failed to find somewhere.

We have only once in 4 years been 'moved on', recently in Belgium when parked in a wide entrance to a forest - I think we were unlucky that the forrester was on his way home up that track just 10 minutes after we parked(we actually found a better spot)

Try it and enjoy the freedom - and in your case the savings

AND the kids will find some adventures.

Geoff


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## aldra

I understand where you are coming from

we have 6 children

And we were completely gutted when a family ticket included 3/4 children so we could not afford it

when we graduated from university we could only take so many which didn't cover our kids

So sod it, we didn't bother with the formal bit

Our kids never caused any bother to anyone , were quieter and more polite than many adults

so Eddie, the idea that kids are a downgrade to a site is so wrong, so yes a charge but kept in prospective

Where do we expect the future campers to come from???

aldra


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## eddievanbitz

Snunkie said:


> It just seems strange to me that so many of the bigger sites that we've stayed on with pools and entertainment allow for up to 6 people in the price rather than charge per person yet when we stay in a basic field it costs us more because we're charged per person. It seems back to front to me?


A couple of points here. If I owned a larger site that had swiming pools and entertainment etc I would want as many bodies as I possibly could through the gates to sell them, fish & Chips, Beer, Ice cream, sweets, stuff from my supermarket, tickets for crazy golf, beef burgers and, well you get my gist.

The other is that camp sites like other business's have a pricing policy to suit their ideal target market. Again using Cornish Farm as an example, we are a touring park, we don't have swings and slides or a play area, we're not anti children, we are just not geared up for them as the majority of our customers don't have them when they stay with us. Insurance Companies will attract or detract types of drivers based on the quotes that they give. As I said in my previous post, restaurants that advertise "Kids eat free" are actively looking for clientèle that have children. Restaurants that don't even offer a children's menu obviously aren't



Snunkie said:


> That's another thing, why do we have to pay for electric whether we have it or not on some sites? I know the site has paid to have installed but we have to make our stays as cheap as possible to be able to take 4 children away as often as we do so we try and save a bit by not having EHU but so many sites state 'free electric' or 'electric included'. Nothing in life is free and what if we don't want electric included? Where is our freedom of choice?


It is illegal for me to sell you electricity at a profit. This legislation was brought in to curb housing landlords charging their tenants OTT prices for electricity.

If I have a pitch with electricity at £15.00 per night and one next to it without electricity at £13.00 the cost of the electricity is £2.00

You come to stay, it is a lovely summers day and your out all day and evening using virtually nothing by way of electrical appliances, if you have only "used" £1.00 worth of electricity we have "re-sold at a profit" and are breaking the law.

So the easy way is to have electricity available on all of our pitches and it is included in the price.

There is no other way to do this that is convenient to our staff and our customers.

Because of our location in Somerset, many of our customers would prefer to use our campsite as an overnight stop on the way to Devon an Cornwall. We're 2 miles of Junction 25 on the M5 or you can stay overnight at Taunton services http://www.motorwayservices.info/taunton_deane_services_m5
Pay them £17.00 a night to stay in a car park with the refrigerated trucks, lorries and often a prevailing smell of wee 

Or you can book and pay in advance with us, turn up after hours, your name and pitch number would be on the office late arrivals board and pull onto your pitch and plug in. If you want an early start before the office opens, you can be up and away as early as you like.

We couldn't offer that service if we had to read electricity meters or you had to buy a card from us!



aldra said:


> Our kids never caused any bother to anyone , were quieter and more polite than many adults
> 
> so Eddie, the idea that kids are a downgrade to a site is so wrong, so yes a charge but kept in prospective


Aldra, I never said that kids are a downgrade to a site. Having dealt with you for some time I don't doubt for a single moment that your children are well behaved, Mine are too. One word from "Mum" even now brings ours into check, and the oldest is 31 next month :lol:

But, six people sat at a table playing cards is going to be nosier than two people. The OP had asked a question and there was no short answer, but that was just one of several reasons.

To sum up, sites that are geared up for larger groups will have a different charging policy than those sites, often smaller and quieter that are after a different target market.

Regards to all

Eddie


----------



## nicholsong

aldra said:


> I understand where you are coming from
> 
> we have 6 children
> 
> And we were completely gutted when a family ticket included 3/4 children so we could not afford it
> 
> when we graduated from university we could only take so many which didn't cover our kids
> 
> So sod it, we didn't bother with the formal bit
> 
> Our kids never caused any bother to anyone , were quieter and more polite than many adults
> 
> so Eddie, the idea that kids are a downgrade to a site is so wrong, so yes a charge but kept in prospective
> 
> Where do we expect the future campers to come from???
> 
> aldra


Eddie

I do not use sites - wild me 

However you have supplied well-written well-reasoned replies to the questions asked.

It would be good if all discussions on MHF could be kept to the same standard.

Congratulations 

It might even encourage me to book with your site even if only to shake your hand :wink: 

Geoff


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## Snunkie

Thanks again Eddie for your explanations. It is good to have it put into perspective.

Referring to the electric point again - how then are some sites able to charge a different pitch price with or without electric, meaning that they do exactly what you say is illegal to do?

We have certainly been quoted prices with or without electric with certainly no refund for unused electric or a bill for using more than we 'paid' for. If this is correct then surely this would apply to all sites?

Lucy


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## Stanner

Snunkie said:


> Referring to the electric point again - how then are some sites able to charge a different pitch price with or without electric, meaning that they do exactly what you say is illegal to do?


With all deference to Eddie's experience I do not think charging for an EHU "connection" can be illegal.

Charging a higher metered rate than cost IS illegal for the reason he stated, but simply charging (say) £2.00 for the right to connect your lead to a "free" supply and then use as much or as little as you like is not the same thing.

If it was then simply adding £2.00 to the pitch fee per night would be just as illegal and even more so if the user did not even want the "free" hook up. 
At least the £2.00 optional EHU fee gives the user a choice, simply adding it to the nightly fee as a matter of course. doesn't.


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## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all deference to Eddie's experience I do not think charging for an EHU "connection" can be illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it sounds stupid, however, to give it as a service, excludes us totally from any risk of prosecution. We tend to take the advice given to us by the legal department from the Caravan Club. But it was a nicely worded challenge :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ofgem Legislation: As far as charging is concerned, rather than get involved with the amount of electricity consumed (which would necessitate expensive metering and time - consuming accounting), we would advise you to adopt the Club policy of charging inclusive of electricity. To charge separately for electricity could expose owners to the possibility of visitors challenging
> them to justify it. Even if the operator has not been charging excessively, he/she will be involved in considerable (and disproportionate) time, effort and expense in proving their
> case to Ofgem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In answer to Snunkie's question, as the quote about shows, sites that are re-selling unmetered electricity will be liable for prosecution.
> 
> Companies and business's that flout rules and regulations may also be flouting rules and regulations concerning your Health and Safety. A point I always try to remember. A bit like a pub or restaurant that can't be bothered to keep their public toilets clean and tidy are unlikely to have a positive cleanliness attitude to areas their customers don't access
Click to expand...


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## listerdiesel

Interesting discussion, thanks in particular to Eddie for his very lucid explanations, and Lucy for starting it all off.

We are not site-bound, as most of our trips are to shows where we exhibit, so we get free camping for the weekends or longer, but in the days when the kids were young and we had caravans and trailer tents, we often went to Powderham Castle Caravan Site in Lostwithiel in Cornwall.

We were amongst the first in there when Rita was expecting our first child in 1972, showers were coin in the slot but it was a nice site and we returned many times. They were pretty flexible at the start, and seem to have maintained that up until the first owners sold it on. We haven't been there since.

Perhaps Lucy's solution might be prior contact and negotiation of a reduction in price prior to arrival? I know the smaller places are more flexible, especially with families.

Peter


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## Stanner

eddievanbitz said:


> I agree that it sounds stupid, however, to give it as a service, excludes us totally from any risk of prosecution. We tend to take the advice given to us by the legal department from the Caravan Club. But it was a nicely worded challenge :lol:


I quite accept all that, but I still think my approach would be difficult to challenge, subject to one proviso......................

It has to be _possible_ to use at least (if not more than) the daily charge's worth of electricity within the 24 hour period. If you could not in anyway recover your total outlay by use of electricity THAT could be argued to be profiteering and (quite rightly) open to challenge.

So, to charge £100 per day for a 1 amp supply would be overcharging but £2 for a 13amp supply needn't be.

Example.
I ran out of gas on a site in Valkenburg last year, that site had metered supplies (state of the art coin in the slot digital metering at every pitch!!!) and I can assure you I would far rather have paid a £2.00 flat fee than feed the number of Euros into the slot that I did.


----------



## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> eddievanbitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it sounds stupid, however, to give it as a service, excludes us totally from any risk of prosecution. We tend to take the advice given to us by the legal department from the Caravan Club. But it was a nicely worded challenge :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I quite accept all that, but I still think my approach would be difficult to challenge, subject to one proviso......................
> 
> It has to be _possible_ to use at least (if not more than) the daily charge's worth of electricity within the 24 hour period. If you could not in anyway recover your total outlay by use of electricity THAT could be argued to be profiteering and (quite rightly) open to challenge.
> 
> So, to charge £100 per day for a 1 amp supply would be overcharging but £2 for a 13amp supply needn't be.
> 
> Example.
> I ran out of gas on a site in Valkenburg last year, that site had metered supplies (state of the art coin in the slot digital metering at every pitch!!!) and I can assure you I would far rather have paid a £2.00 flat fee than feed the number of Euros into the slot that I did.
Click to expand...

When we built the campsite, our architect followed the advice and doctrines of the Caravan Club throughout, including their advice about the bother of trying to challenge "Offcom!

Cornish Farm Touring Park is a well supported site, busy all year and everyone is happy. All our customers appear to want hook up as they all use it.

I simply don't have the time of the inclination to change the rules of the site, every time someone objects to our charging policy.

One person doesn't see why electricity is included, another hasn't used the tap, some one else didn't dump, others use their own facilities, another didn't bring a car and his mate did so "why do they have to pay the same, as there mate" :roll:

Our pitch fee includes electricity to save us taking on Offcom. We include two people but you can pay a little more and bring more people. If you can park a car within the boundary of your pitch there is no charge, if not you put it in our car park and pay, to save you being a nuisance to anyone else.

Our terms and conditions are available in reception from our Wardens, available in the campsite office, available from the Van Bitz reception and downloadable from the Cornish Farm website along with a paragraph that some find rude most find reassuring



> We want everyone to enjoy their stay at Cornish Farm. We do not want too many rules and regulations but we do want happy,
> middle of the road campers enjoying a quiet few days.
> 
> Extremes of any behaviour or practice will not be tolerated and you will be asked to leave.
> 
> In short, if you think it is OK that your dogs should be allowed to run around scaring people, barking and making a mess everywhere whilst your children run around screaming and shouting having water fights in the toilets, whilst you sleep of the 3.00am noisy BBQ you enjoyed the night before with your mates that came up from another campsite and parked in
> everyone else's spot... PLEASE DO NOT COME BECAUSE YOU
> WILL DISAPPOINTED


Works for us :lol:


----------



## nicholsong

Eddie

"middle of the road campers"

Sorry, Eddie but I could just see the cartoon :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Not taking the P*ss - just spotting a juxtaposition of words :roll: :lol: 

DON'T change it - you could make it your slogan, just like 'Calm down dear it's only an advert'  

Geoff


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## Stanner

Stanner said:


> So, to charge £100 per day for a 1 amp supply would be overcharging but £2 for a 13amp supply needn't be.


http://www.digicard.co.uk/assets/mrp.pdf

Example 8a shows exactly how to work out a daily charge.


----------



## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to charge £100 per day for a 1 amp supply would be overcharging but £2 for a 13amp supply needn't be.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.digicard.co.uk/assets/mrp.pdf
> 
> Example 8a shows exactly how to work out a daily charge.
Click to expand...

On the basis that I have absolutely no intention of returning to the dark ages, Cornish Farm Touring Park will continue to offer an "inclusive price" for pitches with electric, in line with the Countries largest camp site operators and owners: The Caravan Club :wink:

Eddie


----------



## 1302

I think Eddies approach is about right and at £2 he aint robbing anyone - he might even be losing out when someone turns on the halgen heater to warm their pussy up. 

Any 'residue/unused' leccy profit can surely be justified in terms of ongoing maintence of so kets, PAT testing etc etc..


----------



## Stanner

1302 said:


> I think Eddies approach is about right and at £2 he aint robbing anyone - he might even be losing out when someone turns on the halgen heater to warm their pussy up.
> 
> Any 'residue/unused' leccy profit can surely be justified in terms of ongoing maintence of so kets, PAT testing etc etc..


BUT if you read his post he doesn't charge £2.00, because his advice is that to do so is "illegal", he charges an "all inclusive" fee.

My point is that according to my advice (an OFGEM publication) it cannot be illegal because they offer advice on how an appropriate charge can be calculated.

It's all down to who you believe OFGEM or that paragon of clarity on the subject of "rules" The Caravan Club.


----------



## Glasandra

I'm with Eddie on this. We got the camper van to enjoy an easy life and don't mind paying a couple of quid extra a day to stay where we want to.

We often stay at sites where we don't use all the facilities - indeed we couldn't use the kids facilities or the dog walking area for example - but we don't expect to get a reduction. When you go to a hotel with facilities you don't use, such as a pool or gym, would you also demand a reduction because you hadn't used them?

Also once again no one is taking into consideration the costs of providing and maintaining the facilities, or of providing the metering for electric that has been suggested. As I see it electricity on site is provided as a service, not a utility or if it were then taking this arguement to it's conclusion water onsite should also be metered and paid for as some of us don't top up but use the water we arrive with, others use a lot, but how many are calling for that?

In my view if the extra charges offend you then go somewhere else better suited to your needs - it's horses for courses really.


----------



## Stanner

1302 said:


> I think Eddies approach is about right and at £2 he aint robbing anyone - he might even be losing out when someone turns on the halgen heater to warm their pussy up.
> 
> Any 'residue/unused' leccy profit can surely be justified in terms of ongoing maintence of so kets, PAT testing etc etc..


???

An exact duplicate post 21 minutes after the first one - what is going on?


----------



## nicholsong

Stanner said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to charge £100 per day for a 1 amp supply would be overcharging but £2 for a 13amp supply needn't be.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.digicard.co.uk/assets/mrp.pdf
> 
> Example 8a shows exactly how to work out a daily charge.
Click to expand...

Stanner

I have examined your quoted 'Example 8a'

In it there are 3 'estimates' (Office, permanent and metered, and visitors)

Assuming the first two estimates could be reasonably accurate, the third(Visitors) could be subject to weather. something example 8a does not seem to cover.

So the Met Office predict a dire summer and the owner factors in only 25 weeks X 4 nights occupancy and charges accordingly at say 2.50 pounds but it is a brilliant summer and he makes a big profit.

Conversely he is told it will be a great summer and it is not, and he makes a loss.

The problem with these 'Regulators' is that they should get out a bit more - or more precisely should have worked in the real world for 10 years before they are appointed.

Anyway how could a regulator prove the owner's estimate was wrong - the whole premise of example 8a is wrong and a waste of paper and of the author's time, which I assume I have paid for.

Geofff


----------



## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Eddies approach is about right and at £2 he aint robbing anyone - he might even be losing out when someone turns on the halgen heater to warm their pussy up.
> 
> Any 'residue/unused' leccy profit can surely be justified in terms of ongoing maintence of so kets, PAT testing etc etc..
> 
> 
> 
> BUT if you read his post he doesn't charge £2.00, because his advice is that to do so is "illegal", he charges an "all inclusive" fee.
> 
> My point is that according to my advice (an OFGEM publication) it cannot be illegal because they offer advice on how an appropriate charge can be calculated.
> 
> It's all down to who you believe OFGEM or that paragon of clarity on the subject of "rules" The Caravan Club.
Click to expand...

I think that your missing the point anyway. I have seen that publication before as it is now ten years old. The advice that we took in 2005 was that to avoid the bother with admin and the potential challenge from Offgem that when we opened in 2005 we decided that it was the simplest way.

Even if it we didn't have to include it we would. That way people can come and go, use it, not use it, arrive late and decide against using it as it is raining and they will be leaving first thing, use it and tell us that they didn't use it :roll: The majority of people want hook up, and those that don't have plenty of sites that don't. We always talk about "voting with our feet" well it is a two way Street.

So, if it makes you happier, I agree that it "Could" be calculated and dealt with differently (still a flat fee though :roll: )

However, if we do that, and we get the sums wrong we will be breaking the law. So we are talking about semantics "illegal" "would be illegal" or "could, be illegal"

The quote I posted suggested this


> To charge separately for electricity could expose owners to the possibility of visitors challenging them to justify it. Even if the operator has not been charging excessively, he/she will be involved in considerable (and disproportionate) time, effort and expense in proving their case to Ofgem.
> 
> 
> 
> Surely no one would start an argument like that, would they? :wink: :lol:
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...


----------



## Stanner

eddievanbitz said:


> Surely no one would start an argument like that, would they? :wink: :lol:
> 
> Eddie


No,

But "is illegal or would be illegal" is now "could or might be illegal if challenged". :wink:

Personally I don't give a toss either way, if and when we use a site it is the potential maximum charge including EHU we look at - whether it is included or charged separately makes no difference.

Now if only OFGEM would cover WiFi charges ......................... :roll:


----------



## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> Now if only OFGEM would cover WiFi charges ......................... :roll:


FREE at Cornish Farm !

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Eddie


----------



## Stanner

eddievanbitz said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only OFGEM would cover WiFi charges ......................... :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> FREE at Cornish Farm !
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...

Yes I know, but not at some "Club" sites................ :roll:


----------



## eddievanbitz

Stanner said:


> Yes I know, but not at some "Club" sites................ :roll:


Had a weekend on the CC site at Dulverton last weekend. Five hours for a fiver.

Everytime you log off it tells you how much you have left.

Loved Dulverton so will be going back before Christmas so will be able to use the remainder of my fiver so not all bad

My way is better Free of charge for our customers

Eddie


----------



## tony50

*Re: site costs*



robi49 said:


> Hi I have been watching and noting this summer whilst working in my travels, that our foreign cousins touring in the lovely Ayrshire (Scotland) area wild camp on average more than our UK cousins.
> As prices rise for caravan parks I think we will be seing more wild camping, as Motorhomes become more self sufficient why not.
> One can alway's do a one night stop to top up with water empty toilet etc, etc.
> robi


Please don't encourage wild camping , 5 M/Hs were spending several nights on a free car / motorhome park (not for camping /staying there at night but I suspect they know the Travellers law on how to extend their stay ) even like Travellers (what's the difference ? ) 10 yards from the sea , car park has free toilet one flush in gents and ladies , and where do the campers empty there toilet units down the public toilets ,and fill the water tanks via the taps , paying nothing and as a small seaside town probably add nothing to the local economy.

Tony A.


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## Snunkie

Ok, on another note, can anyone tell me why I've just had to pay for th dog as well?

I did point out to the operator that he won't be needing to use the toilets or the showers. I asked if he could use the swimming pool or watch the evening entertainment but I got a very stiff "I'm afraid not madam" back. So I said why do I have to pay for the dog then? The operator replied "I don't know, you just do"

So can anyone enlighten me? I haven't had to pay for any of the 4 children who will use the pool, entertainment, park etc but I did have to pay for the dog!


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## aldra

I have the same ??

I can only assume its to discourage dogs

or, because many have dogs

it's another money maker  

A
Dra


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## Snunkie

Surely if they wanted to discourage dogs then it would be easier to just not allow them? However they specifically asked me if I was bring a dog and if so how many. I just found it really odd to have to pay for a dog. We've not been to a campsite in this country with him yet as we've only had him since end of May and we've camped at friends, parents, France and Spain but this is first uk booking since we've had him.


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## aldra

you usually have to pay a charge for the dog on sites

Aldra


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## Snunkie

Oh, thanks for the heads up on that Aldra.

I'm sure Eddie will be along in a mo to tell us why :lol:


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## Snunkie

Ah, is it for use of the on site doggy bin?


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## Snunkie

The 4 Kids were free, 10" toy poodle £2 per night :?:


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## aldra

well at least I'm paying for a 7stone plus mut

And not a poodle :lol: :lol: 

aldra 8O


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## bazzeruk

If there is a dog walk with bins provided I have no objection to paying extra for the dog as that area needs maintenance.


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## aldra

No use to us

he requires a proper walk off site, although some sites provide a field which is fantastic

I don't have a problem paying for him as long as its reasonable

Aldra


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## eddievanbitz

Loads been written about this on other threads as well!

I am pro dogs having two great big hairy long haired German Shepherds.

We pick up everything that our dogs do, along with quite often other people's :twisted: and that's the point.

So what do our wardens have to cope with?

Customers pointing out piles of crap that dog owners have "missed" or simply ignored leaving it to our staff to pick up.

Customers pointing out that dogs have been marking a particular bollard or point and it smells, "could you wash it down?

Customers pointing out that a dog has been left in a van or chained up and it's been barking all afternoon, leaving us to try and track down the owners to ask them to sort it out.

Customers pointing out that the dog chained up all afternoon has no water, "shouldn't some one do something about it? (Us)

Customers point out that a dog is being allowed to run around and is bothering everyone else and "someone should catch it"

Add to that repairing damage to pitches where dogs have been left chained up, got bored and dug holes

Add to the the general abusive nature encountered when you actually bollock some one for letting their dog run around bothering everyone else and crapping everywhere

None of these things happen if no one brings a dog !

So your paying us £1.00 for the inconsiderate, selfish morons that take on the care and well being mans best friend and don't bother to look after them properly!

We have CCTV and the number of people, mainly Men that wander around very early in the morning and think that no one will see their dogs crapping and them ignoring it, then take umbrage when challenged.

As of course the old chestnut, My mates got two dogs, I don't what do I have to pay the same as him, can I have a discount please?

Eddie


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## wakk44

eddievanbitz said:


> .......................................
> So your paying us £1.00 for the inconsiderate, selfish morons that take on the care and well being mans best friend and don't bother to look after them properly!........................


But I am considerate,selfless and look after my dogs properly,why should I have to pay extra because of a few morons. :x

Just kick them off the site,they know the rules.


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## raynipper

After getting rid of a tenant last year and covering the $10k. rent arrears and damage. We had to replace the air con unit at $5,500 because their dog had peed on it morn and night and dissolved the cooling pipes. 

At least they went before I got complaints the air con was not working.... :roll: 

Ray.


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## wug

wakk44 said:


> eddievanbitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......................................
> So your paying us £1.00 for the inconsiderate, selfish morons that take on the care and well being mans best friend and don't bother to look after them properly!........................
> 
> 
> 
> Just kick them off the site,they know the rules.
Click to expand...

I know it's probably a pain and you'll get a lot of abuse, but I don't understand why sites don't ask the morons to leave. Even the Clubs don't seem to enforce their own rules all the time, such as people arriving before 12 noon being allowed on etc.


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## eddievanbitz

If we have issues with people we are more than happy and capable to tell people to leave.

However, when you speak to a nice couple and say that we have had complaints that their dog has been barking all day, and the nice old lady is mortified and tells you that "TrixieBooBoo" never normally barks
to kick her off would be an over reaction :wink: 

We have to be mindful that that person that has just driven in far too fast to be sensible, ignoring the 5mph signs dotted about isn't responsible for the twenty two others that have done the same that weekend, he is only the straw that has broken the camels back so you can't take it all out on one person (my wife tells me that anyway)

Anyway the question was why do we charge for dogs, and it the extra inconvenience from time that we wouldn't get if no one brought dogs.

Eddie


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## Stanner

wug said:


> such as people arriving before 12 noon being allowed on etc.


Because if they do they are accused on here of being "jobsworths".

Everybody should know by now that such rules shouldn't apply to MHF members.


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## anneveronica

I take my dog every where but have never been charged on a site yet!


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## bazzeruk

aldra said:


> No use to us
> 
> he requires a proper walk off site, although some sites provide a field which is fantastic
> 
> I don't have a problem paying for him as long as its reasonable
> 
> Aldra


Pirate wouldn't put up with just a dog walk on site either which is why we find it difficult when looking for siites - we need really good walking direct from the site as we don't want to be using the motorhome once we have parked

It's nice to have dog walks on site though for early morning and late evening


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## aldra

he will only go in thick undergrowth

And we have found many dog walks that are recommended are actually lanes full of dog s*** where no one has bothered to pick up so we avoid them

although to be fair we usually find there is off site walking facilities

And he can hold going out in a morning for hours, wish my bladder was so good  

Aldra


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## Snunkie

Thanks Eddie, I can see the points you are making and that does make sense.

It just infuriates me even more that there are people who have dogs but do not accept the responsibility that goes with them, such as keeping them under control, on a lead around others and picking up the poo! I wouldn't dream of leaving dog poo anywhere. I take a torch with me at night time so I can see to pick it up. And believe me, being a toy poodle he does the tiniest of poos but I could still not comprehend walking off and leaving it there, it's disgusting that people do, and often huge piles of it!

We have spent many a time at sites where campers have brought 1,2,3 even 4 or 5 dogs away with them, none of which are on a lead. Time and time again my 5 year old who is terrified of dogs (except our own) has been traumatised by an untethered dog entering our awning. The owner came over, talked to the dog and ignored us, not a sorry, nothing! I've had dogs wee up my awning and the owner is either nowhere in site or couldn't care less. The trouble is, it gives us responsible and considerate dog owners a bad name 
:twisted:


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## tugboat

Nice one, Barry. Ah, Brits abroad, gotta love 'em! :lol:


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## oldun

*Re: Why do sites charge per person when you have your own...*



Snunkie said:


> Being a family of 6 I'm often astounded at the price most campsites work out to for us. I'm so fed up with being charged per person. Why is that so?
> 
> I could understand it if we were in a tent as each of us would need to use the campsites facilities, but in a motorhome we are completely self contained and have no need to use the campsite's toilet and shower facilities. I can also understand it where the sites have entertainment and or pools for example, but in fact the 2 sites we use regularly with indoor pools and evening entertainment do not charge per person and we have often stayed for as little as £10 per night for the 6 of us.
> 
> Why do campsites insist on charging per person for Motorhomes and caravans?
> 
> My other big annoyance is 'free hookup'. I don't need hookup for a 2 night stay so I want to pay less for my pitch! There is no such thing as free hookup, it's already in the cost of the pitch so you lay for it whether you use it or not.
> 
> Rant over. For now anyway.....
> 
> Lucy


So you are absolutely independent and never dump waste products in to the campsite system or refill from their water taps!!!!!


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## aldra

I don't think snunkie ever said that

what he said that if he showers his kids etc in his own motorhome

Why do kids cost so much

As a mum of 6 (all grown up to middle age)

I understand where he is coming from

it can work out very expensive when you are paying per child

Just as a family ticket that includes two children

No, it's not a family ticket it's two adults and two children, any family over that cease to be a family

so yes, charge for kids, but realistically

Just the same principal as charge for dogs but only according to the cost of the facilities provided

Aldra


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## ChrisandJohn

aldra said:


> I don't think snunkie ever said that
> 
> what he said that if he showers his kids etc in his own motorhome
> 
> Why do kids cost so much
> 
> As a mum of 6 (all grown up to middle age)
> 
> I understand where he is coming from
> 
> it can work out very expensive when you are paying per child
> 
> Just as a family ticket that includes two children
> 
> No, it's not a family ticket it's two adults and two children, any family over that cease to be a family
> 
> so yes, charge for kids, but realistically
> 
> Just the same principal as charge for dogs but only according to the cost of the facilities provided
> 
> Aldra


 

Snunkie is a she. 

Chris
(also a she)


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## aldra

thanks Aldra

Also a she :lol: 

aldra


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## anneveronica

Bazzeruk, I spent three days at Delamere Forest Site, situated on the edge of the forest and more dog walking than mine could cope with! And plenty of undergrowth! I would use that site again.


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## Snunkie

Yep, I've checked and I'm definitely a she :lol: 

Lucy


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## Snunkie

Oldun, that's not what I said. 

Of course we fill up from the tap if we have used what we brought with us from home, and of course we empty the toilet if it is full, but if we only stay one night we rarely need more than we have brought with us and are happy to empty the toilet into our drain at home. I was merely asking why the cost is so high at many campsites per night per child.

A price per couple or a price per 'family' per vehicle per pitch would be more appealing. Many sites that we use are priced for up to 6 people which is then unfair for couples I agree, so a pricing for 1-2 people or 3-6 people would be good. Although we are booked in at The Orchards at St Osyth for 2 weekends at just £28 per weekend for the 6 of us including indoor pool, playgrounds and evening entertainment so I do begrudge being charged £55 at a club site with no pool, no entertainment and maybe a swing. I just don't get how prices can be so different especially when I would expect to pay more for facilities and less for a field.

Lucy


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## stevethebeekeeper

Surely if people are that unhappy about fee's at a site be it for showers/leccy/dogs/awnings or whatever, then just do not go to the site.

If the pricing is incorrect then the business will either fail or have to rethink to survive.

Campsites are no different to any other business. They are there to make money just like a big multinational supermarket chain and price dependent on what their customers will pay for.


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## oldun

aldra said:


> I don't think snunkie ever said that
> 
> what he said that if he showers his kids etc in his own motorhome


Yes but she is still using water for six people and dumping waste water for six people. The only difference is that she is using her own washroom and not the campsite's.

I still don't see why a single camper should pay the same amount as a family of six.


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## aldra

Niether do I olden,

Just think kids prices should not price families out of the market

We need to encourage young families to enjoy the benefits of camping

I suppose one could argue two people sharing a pitch have more space than 6 on the same pitch  

Aldra


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## eddievanbitz

Snunkie said:


> . Although we are booked in at The Orchards at St Osyth for 2 weekends at just £28 per weekend for the 6 of us including indoor pool, playgrounds and evening entertainment so I do begrudge being charged £55 at a club site with no pool, no entertainment and maybe a swing. I just don't get how prices can be so different especially when I would expect to pay more for facilities and less for a field.
> 
> Lucy


As I explained they are different business models. The Orchards is a Haven holiday park. It is predominantly static caravans some owned by Haven for rent, and some privately owned.

The bars, restaurants and takeaways have to be open and manned irrespective of if there any people camping. Consequently getting as many people into the park to put "bums on empty seats" makes sense.

The actual camping fees are secondary to the additional income they generate from selling you things ( even if you don't spend money whilst in the park, overall most do)

On a campsite that has no additional facility's to generate income from its guests has to make a commercial decision what to charge.

So long as the charges are available up front, clear and understandable I don't see that there is a problem. There is room for both ends of the market and the bit in the middle.

Sometimes we fancy a quiet weekend away and the idea of staying on site that is packed with static caravans geared up a larger families is a non starter.

Other times we have made arrangements to meet up with friends who still have teenage children or young grandchildren and the idea of staying on a sleepy quiet site with nothing to offer the children to soother than sit quietly and read a book is a non starter.

Snunkie you keep saying that you can't understand why you have to pay more to take your four children, you don't ! Just pick sites that are geared up for them and don't make additional charges.

Eddie


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## oldun

aldra said:


> Niether do I olden,
> 
> Just think kids prices should not price families out of the market
> 
> We need to encourage young families to enjoy the benefits of camping
> 
> I suppose one could argue two people sharing a pitch have more space than 6 on the same pitch
> 
> Aldra


I'm not anti children or anti family I was simply pointing out the fact that whatever the pricing system there will be winners and loosers.

In my opinion all types of pricing systems seem to be getting more and more expensive every year.

One trend I do not like is that of groups buying up campsites, turning them into holiday villages and then charging the earth.

I like simple campsites with simple but good quality facilities

Economical camping is fast disappointing.


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## Snunkie

Snunkie you keep saying that you can't understand why you have to pay more to take your four children, you don't ! Just pick sites that are geared up for them and don't make additional charges.

Eddie[/quote]

That's very true and we do pick appropriate sites when we have a choice of where to go, but for example I visit my sister regularly and need to stay somewhere nearby overnight so we are restricted where we can stay, and paying for 6 of us to pull up and go to sleep and leave the next day is just so expensive.

If only we had the equivalent to Aires in the UK. All we need is a parking bay a lot of the time as we are usually visiting places and just need somewhere to stay overnight.

Lucy


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## eddievanbitz

Snunkie said:


> Snunkie you keep saying that you can't understand why you have to pay more to take your four children, you don't ! Just pick sites that are geared up for them and don't make additional charges.
> 
> Eddie


That's very true and we do pick appropriate sites when we have a choice of where to go, but for example I visit my sister regularly and need to stay somewhere nearby overnight so we are restricted where we can stay, and paying for 6 of us to pull up and go to sleep and leave the next day is just so expensive.

If only we had the equivalent to Aires in the UK. All we need is a parking bay a lot of the time as we are usually visiting places and just need somewhere to stay overnight.

Lucy[/quote]

:wink: get your sister to move to France lol We all would love to have Aires in the UK but it will never happen. Mainly I suspect that land is so much more valuable as there is so little of it available.


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## Stanner

Snunkie said:


> eddievanbitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Snunkie you keep saying that you can't understand why you have to pay more to take your four children, you don't ! Just pick sites that are geared up for them and don't make additional charges.
> 
> Eddie
> 
> 
> 
> That's very true and we do pick appropriate sites when we have a choice of where to go, but for example I visit my sister regularly and need to stay somewhere nearby overnight so we are restricted where we can stay, and paying for 6 of us to pull up and go to sleep and leave the next day is just so expensive.
> 
> If only we had the equivalent to Aires in the UK. All we need is a parking bay a lot of the time as we are usually visiting places and just need somewhere to stay overnight.
> 
> Lucy
Click to expand...


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## Stanner

eddievanbitz said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eddievanbitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Snunkie you keep saying that you can't understand why you have to pay more to take your four children, you don't ! Just pick sites that are geared up for them and don't make additional charges.
> 
> Eddie
> 
> 
> 
> That's very true and we do pick appropriate sites when we have a choice of where to go, but for example I visit my sister regularly and need to stay somewhere nearby overnight so we are restricted where we can stay, and paying for 6 of us to pull up and go to sleep and leave the next day is just so expensive.
> 
> If only we had the equivalent to Aires in the UK. All we need is a parking bay a lot of the time as we are usually visiting places and just need somewhere to stay overnight.
> 
> Lucy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :wink: get your sister to move to France lol We all would love to have Aires in the UK but it will never happen. Mainly I suspect that land is so much more valuable as there is so little of it available.
Click to expand...

Just trying to put the quotes right so I can see who is saying what to who.


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