# If you could ask the designer of your MH one question...



## Delores (Feb 21, 2010)

...what would it be?

I mean a "What were you thinking?" kind of a question. :banghead: 

I've just been getting Delores ready for a long weekend away and have broken another nail trying to close the main water outlet. Now I am NOT a girly girl with long painted nails, I'm an outdoors kind of a girl whose nails are at best a hit an miss affair and by 'broken' I mean ripped off well below the quick! 8O 

The offending tap is buried inside the wardrobe, behind the fire, underneath a load of pipes and is really stiff. Considering that it would need to be used at least once during each trip why on earth couldn't they put it somewhere a little more convenient? I mean sticking it right next to the electrics behind the fire just makes perfect sense! :roll: 

I'm chalking it all down to the experience of owning out first motorhome - something that wouldn't have stood out as an issue when we bought it, but will certainly be high on our list of considerations whenever we look for Delores II!


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## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

Habitation area lighting going off as soon as you turn the ignition key :evil: 

Frankly though, I'd rather ask some of the people that built my coachbuilts whether they had even the slightest trace of pride in their "workmanship"


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Well Dethleffs you think this is a gourmet kitchen dream on big boys there is no work surface - so are we expected just to look at it and go to a restaurant?

Well am liking ya lateral thinking though .... obviously designed by a girl the end bitty.

Greenie


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

"What were you thinking Autotrail?" when you put the waste water tap where you did :?


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## riverboat2001 (Apr 2, 2009)

Why did Swift not make the bed slats wider and therefore NOT fall through the runners?


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Ditto on the bed slats for Elddis.

But the main ones would be "why make the freshwater tank only 45 litres?" and "how exactly do you expect a shower tray to drain when the waste pipe has a loop enroute to the tank which is higher than the tray?"


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

lets make one that dosnt leak!!


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Good thread - there is only one question....

Fix n go kit - why??? :roll:


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## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

why have a window at one end of the bed and a reading light at the other?


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Never , never consider putting a vacuum toilet in , they are noisy , ours use to fire off at in appropiate times ! I mean day or night until we had a isolation switch fitted . yes drain tap for heater you had to be a contortionist to access it .

Tony A


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Delores said:


> ...what would it be?
> 
> I mean a "What were you thinking?" kind of a question. :banghead:
> 
> ...


Excuse my ignorance, but why do you have to turn this tap off every trip?

As for my own 'question' - why has Compass got the sink drain looped under a chassis member, which is lower than its inlet into the grey tank? This is a cracking place to freeze solid in winter, as it cannot possibly fully drain away - and also serves to make the sink draining very slow. It would have been so easy to 'do it right' - which i will when i get a minute. Muppets!


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## Delores (Feb 21, 2010)

> Excuse my ignorance, but why do you have to turn this tap off every trip?


Because after each trip we like to drain the tank so that we don't leave stagnant water in the system. Last trip was a couple of weeks back and wouldn't want to leave water in the tank for 2 weeks in this heat, hence the need to drain it and refill it.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Why when you are in an area knee deep in aircraft apprentices that can't get work and aircraft workers that have been made redundant did you employ muppets whose - just top pick on one thing - idea of using a shorter bolt is to go and find a hacksaw (or not bother at all  )


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

If you could ask the designer of your MH one question...

So..............

Do you use Horlicks, Ovaltine or just a knock out pill?


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Gripe*

My Biggest Gripe>?

NOT the MH manufacturer, the Chassis Mercedes.

WHY not fit a foot operated parking brake on the Sprinter as fitted to the Vito.

Not only is it a pain having to reach all the way down to the floor to take it off/apply it, but it is a pain when spinning the seats and you have to have the hand brake off and the wheel chocked when parked up.

With Hill Start assist, who needs a HAND Brake.

TM


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Why Autotrail and now Autosleeper do you not put insulation on the watertank as they are underneath and in the cold in the winter
Water freezes or didnt you know that :roll:


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

One question , yes...

how long did you think about fitting a great conversion to the best vehicle imaginable...?

Perfectly happy with the job Compass did  even the multitude of keys for the gas/waste/clean water/door etc 

Small gripe really


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

... and why do the designers think it a good idea to have an oven or a microwave in the top of the tech-tower, way above the head of an average height person? :? 

... and why, if it is so necessary to have the oven or microwave above head height, is there no where nearby to store the hard-hat, safety goggles, leather gauntlets and steel toe-capped boots? :? 

... and why do so many 4-berth MHs have only 2 seat belts; why do so many 6-berth MHs have only 4 seat belts? (Well done Swift for having 6 full 3-point belts in the Escape 686!) :roll: 

... and why do converters leave the original chassis label attached, showing the wrong tyre pressures? :? 

... and why ZZZZZzzzz.....


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## mandyandandy (Oct 1, 2006)

I want to see the size of the loo testers, because half of them must have a 15" inside leg and hips the size of twiggy. 

Ok I don't expect alot of room being the size that we are but some are ridiculous. 

Mandy


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

tony50 said:


> Never , never consider putting a vacuum toilet in , they are noisy .....


Wow 8O 
Having experienced the noise, blockages and other exciting disasters involving vacuum black and grey water systems on ships, I really can't believe anyone considering fitting them to MHs :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## midlifecrisismil (Sep 27, 2009)

Why Eura Mobil do I have to get down on hands and Knees on the muddy ground and perform contortions with my right hand to fix the waste and clean water outlet pipe to the outlets to empty the water tanks. :roll: :roll:


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Why don't you employee designers instead of people who pick bits from dolls house catalogs?


Colin


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## rogerandsandra (Jul 27, 2006)

During one of our trips back to the factory, I did ask how many women were on the design team......................None!
I told them that was their main problem...... a very one sided approach to design!

Sandra


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Swift told me that they get their designers to take one of the new vans away for use with the family to see how they work out. 

Sounds a bit like politicians monitoring their own expenses.

Colin


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I would just like to say thanks to Swift for the Kontiki 640. Our first van. Lived in it 6 months out of the last 12 and either we were lucky or chose carefully as its perfect and I wouldnt change anything. A couple more 12v sockets would be good but thats hardly a complaint. Been out in winter down to -12 degrees and in summer up to 35 and everything worked. A few issues with the base vehicle but thats not down to Swift I guess. Perfect.


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
In theTimberland Endeavour we had,the shower head was part of the tap,so lower the tippy up sink,pull out the tap,presto shower unit, BUT... you then could not close the sink,and there was no means of securing it half closed. So there you are,tippy up sink in one hand,shower unit in the other,all nice and wet now for the shower gell,go to hang shower unit head on wall.......you guessed it,no hook. the only good thing about this arrangement is,i can now juggle to near international level. There was more,like time enough to take the dog on a good hike while the tippy up sink emptied,also...........
Enough.
Ted


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## sennen523 (May 6, 2006)

One Question, (or 2)
Why not fit: Two drain plugholes in either end of shower trays for easier draining if the van's not quite level.

Why don't Manufactures ask the owners for design advice?


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

sennen523 said:


> One Question, (or 2)
> Why not fit: Two drain plugholes in either end of shower trays for easier draining if the van's not quite level.
> 
> Why don't Manufactures ask the owners for design advice?


Our 686 has drain holes at both ends in the shower woohoo.
Swift also had a 'ladies day' recently for their input, the boys had to muscle in on that one though.
My question, why no rubbish bin in the 686 or anywhere convenient to put one.
otherwise van is ideal for us at the moment except not enough roomfor the kids to play hide and seek in the winter :lol: :lol: :roll: 
Sue


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*Re: Gripe*



teemyob said:


> My Biggest Gripe>?
> 
> NOT the MH manufacturer, the Chassis Mercedes.
> 
> ...


On our Mercedes Rapido 992MH V6 , 2008 it had a handbrake lever that you could push down after applying handbrake , without letting the handbrake off ,
hope this makes sense , this allows you to turn seats to miss handbrake lever,I can't see why you couldn't fit one.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Mine too  

tony


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

UncleNorm said:


> ... and why do the designers think it a good idea to have an oven or a microwave in the top of the tech-tower, way above the head of an average height person? :?
> 
> ... and why, if it is so necessary to have the oven or microwave above head height, is there no where nearby to store the hard-hat, safety goggles, leather gauntlets and steel toe-capped boots? :?
> 
> ...


When we saw the tech- tower with a small oven above on the Rapido 999 we said to Martin At Wokingham Motorhomes we would buy the M/H if Rapido could put an oven under the sink area and make the hole where the tower oven was a cupboard which was done , I did'nt like the thought of hot gravy being spilt down the front of my Mrs. and wasting the gravy.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Why, when you've got an empty single bed sized locker to play with, do you put the combi heater smack in the middle of the space ? Then your designers contort all the hot air ducts, water and electricity pipes in such great loops that there is not even space for a small bed roll in there without squashing something ? 

And another one while I'm asking.

Why didn't you put either hydraulic or manual bed props on the base of the said single beds so that an ordinary person could lift the bed base without having to remove all the upholstery and find somewhere to stack it ? Just getting a tin of beans from the underbed locker loses it's urgency when it involves a back-breaking lifting and moving job first.

G


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Autocruise, and now Swift:

Why fit swing-down steadies to the rear that, if the front is on ramps, (which they often are as they are front low) there is not enough ground clearance to swing them down!


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## Richard_the_Rogue (Jun 11, 2009)

Why, if you're going to build a motorhome at the end of the 1980s as mine was, build it with an interior that looks like it came straight out of 1973!!! 8O 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

My question to the designer is easy. (Assuming him to be a "_him_".)

_"Have you ever spent a week in a motorhome . . . preferably with your wife, so she can find all the snags that blokes don't notice?"_

I'm certain most of them have no first hand experience of motorhoming at all. 8O

They wouldn't keep on making such an ongoing series of glaring errors if they had . . . or if they listened to (or maybe even asked for) customer feedback even!! :roll: :roll:

Dave


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## midlifecrisismil (Sep 27, 2009)

sennen523 said:


> One Question, (or 2)
> Why not fit: Two drain plugholes in either end of shower trays for easier draining if the van's not quite level.
> 
> Why don't Manufactures ask the owners for design advice?


Ours does have two plugholes in the shower


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Our shower has two plug 'oles too, but the piping is really poor.

The plug 'oles are one towards the front of the van and one towards the rear, fine so far. Our waste tank is in the middle of the van right beside the shower. There is a waste trap with a removable bottom just under a hatch right beside the tank. BUT the pipes from the plug 'oles run the other way (away from the tank) and are joined through a Y connector which sends one pipe back to the tank. This means that the water has to go round a 270 degree turn to go back to the tank. Naturally all the grunge gets trapped in this junction. The junction is 600mm away from the hatch so it cannot be reached to take it off and clean it out. No amount of flushing, plunging or pouring chemicals down will unclog it, the shower base has to come out. It was repaired at the Frankia factory today. I asked if the piping could be rerouted so I could reach it and was told it was not possible. I do not believe that but due to language problems and Health and Safety regulations preventing me entering the workshop I did not get a look when the base was out so I don't know. So there is a big job for me when it blocks again. I can see no chance of avoiding having that happen, Alan.


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

What a great idea for a thread, and let's hope some of the designers are reading this.

Luckily I'm with Barryd as I've found our Bessie to be thoughtfully designed in every respect...errr...oh, go on then, the flyscreen door sometimes rattles a bit. But that's it, everything else still pretty well perfect at 12 years old and rising.


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## xgx (Oct 14, 2005)

Why did you give final approval to the fixed bed design in the E560 

....without trying to put the sheets etc on :x


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I was thinking that there wasn't anything wrong with ours. Then I thought again.

1. Electric kettle in the only space it can go. Lead then drapes across cutlery drawer, which means you have to keep moving the lead to one side whilst you're cooking, or unplug the kettle and put it somewhere else.

2. 12V socket for the telly in the top furthest corner away from someone trying to plug it in. Why?

3. Only one 240V socket in the living area. Are costs that tight?

4. Curtains across the front of the cab that don't meet. Why?

It's nothing major, but silly little irritating things.

Gerald


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Why don't you subcontract the manufacture of motorhomes to Carlsberg?

David :wink:

ps If you are proud of your product, why do you entrust the sale and aftersales care of your motorhomes to such morons? (apologies to the 1 or 2 non-moronic types, you know who you are!)


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Jented said:


> Hi.
> In theTimberland Endeavour we had,the shower head was part of the tap,so lower the tippy up sink,pull out the tap,presto shower unit, BUT... you then could not close the sink,and there was no means of securing it half closed. So there you are,tippy up sink in one hand,shower unit in the other,all nice and wet now for the shower gell,go to hang shower unit head on wall.......you guessed it,no hook. the only good thing about this arrangement is,i can now juggle to near international level. There was more,like time enough to take the dog on a good hike while the tippy up sink emptied,also...........
> Enough.
> Ted


Sounds a bit like our arrangement, after struggling first time I realised the sink easily lifts out!  
There should be a hook for the shower head though?!

Alison


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## scouter (Dec 14, 2007)

Why are the single drain outlets for the kitchen sink and the shower tray at opposite ends, one or other won't drain and it always seems to be the shower,

alan


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Why put the exhaust mid way between the axles and at the lowest point. We knocked ours off the mounting twice before a friend changed it for us.

Jan


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## travelsRus (Mar 1, 2007)

Burstner - why not switch the TV on and see if you can see the picture when sat down. Lovely picture standing up. Virtually black sat down. Fit a stand to lower flat screen please 
Agree - why sink drain at one side and shower at other??

Chris


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Tent designers.... 

A few questions


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Why fit a perfectly good mirror fronted cabinet in the bathroom so high that the Missus has never seen herself in it?


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Dave Zebedee asked the designers: "Have you ever spent a week in a motorhome . . . preferably with your wife, so she can find all the snags that blokes don't notice?" 


A true story... a lady customer asked a panel van converter if she could have blown air heating directed into the shower room. The reply was simply: "Why?"

If the converter needs to ask that question - WHY? - then they should stop designing MHs.

The lady explained thus: "Well, we'd been out walking, because that's what we do when out in the MH, and we got deluged by heavy rain. So when we returned to the MH, we needed to dry off, change our clothes and dry the wet ones. That's where the 'drying room' comes in!! That's why we need blown air into the shower room!" :roll: :roll: :?  

"Oh," replied the converter. "We can't do that because we'd need to take the ducting across the MH!"  :? Dhmm...!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*drying romm*



UncleNorm said:


> Dave Zebedee asked the designers: "Have you ever spent a week in a motorhome . . . preferably with your wife, so she can find all the snags that blokes don't notice?"
> 
> A true story... a lady customer asked a panel van converter if she could have blown air heating directed into the shower room. The reply was simply: "Why?"
> 
> ...


We have it in the Frankia (blown air to shower cubicle) Trouble is. By the time the air gets to their from the boiler, it is cold.

TM


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## neilbes (Oct 16, 2006)

Why bother fitting this here


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## bonnieboo (Apr 27, 2009)

Laika Kreos 3010

Table much too big, we had to take it out because we couldnt move to sit behind the table and we couldnt reach to the cupboards above the table when it was up. 
Also the fixed bed at the back has a stupid ladder which goes up the side of the van, we have had to but a stool with pull out steps because unless your a contortionist it is impossible to climb down the ladder withour spraining your ankles

Apart from them 2 things we are happy

Jakki


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

neilbes said:


> Why bother fitting this here


That's an ultra modern looking toilet Neilbes, but surely it's not on the roof :?


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

More than one question I'm afraid....bit of a moan really!!

1. Why did you put two electric sockets, vertically, one above the other, so that you can only use one at a time/ 

Moulded plug cords block the lower socket. I rotated them through 90deg.

2. Why did you put the legs of our bed at the end of the weakest front support so that it broke on the third use?

I mad a temp. fix with plastic blocks until the manufacturer replaced the broken bed - took 3 months for them to do it though.

3. Why did you put a loose access panel in the floor ( to get to the water tank), so that it would come loose in transit and I can fall through it?

Dealer screwed it down on manufacturers instructions.

4. Why did my automatic rear door entry light come on randomly or when I flick the headlights or wipers?

Manufacturer couldn't fix this so they disabled it?

5. Why did you design a timed heating controller that only turns the fan on and not the heater?

After much bleating the manufacturer eventually produced a fix for this.

6. Why are the plate and cup racks so ineffective at stopping things rattling in transit?

I put pieces of packing in to stop the noise.

7. Why does the electronic control panel prevent anything else working if it reports a Water Tank Empty or Waste Tank Full.

8. Why do we buy an expensive motorhome and then have to go and buy a hose to fill and empty tanks?

I suggested to them that a fitted coiled freshwater hose would be a nice feature.

9. Why are the gas tanks secured (or not) by a strap that goes over the top; can't be tightened enough; eventually lets the gas bottles rattle?

I changed them for fixings that go around the bottles and they haven't moved since.

10. Why don't the bench seats have supports under them so that when you lift them up you can have both hands free?

I could go on but I'd only get more depressed.

Colin


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Pixelpusher said:


> 1. Why did you put two electric sockets, vertically, one above the other, so that you can only use one at a time/
> 
> Moulded plug cords block the lower socket. I rotated them through 90deg.


Ours came like this. We suggested to Swift that it was not a sensible thing and they modified it on the next batch and changed ours for us.

One other mod they might like to do- and we have done for ourselves:

Why is there only one switch for both sets of kitchen lights ? When on EHU it is fine to have both halogen downlighters and fluorescent under-cupboard lights on but, off EHU, it is more economical to switch to fluorescent only.

G


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