# Terrible smell :(



## asprn

Always a delicate subject, but I'll act like I'm grown up & tell it like it is, in the hope that everyone else will too.

We've been full-time for the past 2 months and will continue to be for the next 3 until our house building works are finished. We've got mains water hook-up, direct-dump grey waste (via 3" slinky) and a top-quality macerator for the black waste into a septic tank. We have access to the house toilet which we 99% use for solids disposal, and 99% use the van loo for No. 1s. :roll: 

Last week, the black waste suddenly starting smelling terribly from the toilet, reminding me of the worst boys' school toilet. It was 3/4 full, so I emptied it & put copious amounts of blue-whatever-we-use (can't remember, it's in the hold, and it's chucking it down) into the tank. The smell took about 24 hours to subside and disappear.

I came in from work at 03:00 hrs this morning, and the smell in the van was not good, which I traced to the toilet, and had to literally shut the door as it was unbearable. This time however, it was sulphuric (eggy) and was definitely a grey-waste smell, such as the fumes you get after emptying the grey tank. That tank is also just about 3/4 full, and has plenty to go before being full. I can't pinpoint the smell, but it appears to be coming from either under the sink or the shower. There are no leaks, and no water lying anywhere.

I think I cured the black issue by flushing more after use. I can't however think why the grey tank should be smelling so dreadfully? I will empty it when the rains stops, but that's not really a solution.

Incidentally, I've never added anything to the grey tank after emptying, although the van has a separate mains water flushing connection which I use on both tanks after they empty.

Dougie.


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## oilslick

When the stuff in the grey tank starts fermenting it smells awful and the gas produced bubbles out of the shower and basins etc. we always put blue toilet stuff in the grey tank to kill the bugs and stop this happening.

Grant


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## 97201

Hello Asprn

Had the same problem myself. I thought it was the hot water tank as the smell was most noticable when first running the hot tap. 

After investigation, it turned out to be the holding tank. For some reason the hot water seemed to magnify it more than the cold.

Hope this helps.

Ian

ps: Alternatively, try flushing with more 10yr old :lol:


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## Floozie2

Hey Dougie,

Sorry to hear about your niffy problem, it ain't nice 8O . We are full time (as you know, sold up just before you - glad you got there eventually by the way!) and don't use chemicals at all and no niffs. If you're toilet is smelling, it could be a seal has gone on it. As for grey, do you leave it open all the time or do you let the tank fill, then dump it? If the former, do the latter, as leaving it open alows solids to stick on the bottom of the tank. Letting it go all at once takes all the the solids with it. Or am I telling granny how to suck eggs   One thing we always try to do is put plugs in the sinks when we empty the grey as when it rushes out there's a bit of a vacuum and it sucks the water outta the traps letting the pongs through.

Cheers

Richard


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## asprn

oilslick, camperian, floozie2 - thanks for your input. My favoured solution must be the 10-yr-old one, although it won't be the tank I'll be flushing with that. 

Interesting that oilslick used blue which stopped it, and floozie2 doesn't, and he avoids the problem. :roll: I think I must try the blue though in the grey tank, as a potential solution. Grant, where do you pour it?

"Sucking eggs" however wasn't a helpful metaphor. :? 

Cheers,

Dougie.


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## carolgavin

I could lend you a clothes peg for your nose :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## asprn

carolgavin said:


> I could lend you a clothes peg for your nose :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Always there for me, aintcha. :roll:

ANYWAY - *lend*. Get you.

Dougie.


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## 97201

Thought the 10yr old would be a bit much to bear.

Mine seemed most noticable at the wash hand basin and poured the stuff in there, then followed up with the shower (lowest point).

Did the trick.

Ian


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## asprn

Floozie2 said:


> As for grey, do you leave it open all the time or do you let the tank fill, then dump it?


Sorry Richard - didn't answer this. We let the tank fill, for the very reason you cite.

Dougie.


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## carolgavin

asprn said:


> carolgavin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could lend you a clothes peg for your nose :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Always there for me, aintcha. :roll:
> 
> ANYWAY - *lend*. Get you.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

Am Scottish, you are surprised.............................HOW??????

Tee hee hee


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## 107088

Flushing with a 10 year old is a bit iffy......child labour is frowned upon nowadays........

f


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## 90487

Sounds like the the tank vent system, the outlet on the roof, is either blocked (unlikely) or it has become disconnected somewhere inside the van.

Both tanks will have the vents connected together at some point and join into the 1.5" vertical stack vent pipe (in my van it goes up inside the wardrobe and out to the roof). Sometimes there is a rubber flexible joiner with hose clamps between sections, just check the clamps are tight.

On the bathroom and kitchen sinks just after the "U" or "P" trap there are air admittance valves. Their purpose is to let a bit of air i(under suction) when water is run down the sinks so a vacuum does not "pull" the water out of the traps. One or both may be stuck open to service and is simple rubber membrane affair (mine were glued to the pipework :evil: )

If the valves are faulty and can't be serviced then it will be a challenge to adapt UK ones to the US pipework, but it can be done. In reality the valves can be deleted With a good deep "U" bend the probability of suction emptying it is unlikely.

Carol


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## asprn

Carol,

Good info - thank you. Checked the "U" bends and no valves visible. Wasn't aware of having a vent stack up to the roof  but will check when the torrent eventually stops.

Dougie.


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## 90487

_Wasn't aware of having a vent stack up to the roof but will check when the torrent eventually stops. _

It is a generic system to most US RV's. Unless there is a different approach nowadays. Bit out of touch with the new stuf (hubby used to repair them) 

Also woth considering one of those wind operated extractors to fit on top of the vent (get from APB) designed for the job. Creates a slight vacuum in the tank system, can help a lot.

Carol


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## oilslick

*I pour it down the drains*

Asprn,

I dilute the blue about 4 to 1 so that I have about a pint of fluid. I do this so that I can be sure of getting each of the drain pipes well wet on the way to the tank. As we have one shower and two sinks I pour 1/3rd of a pint down each drain. This seems to keep the bugs dead in all the pipes and the holding tank for about 3 weeks, despite draining the (80 litre) holding tank every 4 days or so.

I think the reason somones hot water made the smell worse is that it warms the air in the tank which expends and bubbles thru even more.

Grant


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## johng1974

Dougie I used blue in my loo and would rather have smelt ...

Reverted back to no chemicals... 


J


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## asprn

*Re: I pour it down the drains*



oilslick said:


> I dilute the blue about 4 to 1 so that I have about a pint of fluid. I do this so that I can be sure of getting each of the drain pipes well wet on the way to the tank


*Grant*, great info, thank you. I've already bombed the tank with blue (more than your suggested measures) but we've agreed to incorporate your method into our domestic routines (i.e. SWMBO will do it  ).

*John*, didn't you like the blue smell then?

*Carol*, I've been on the roof and can't see anything resembling a vent stack - had one on the old Kontiki, but not here (I think?) Anyone else advise?

Dougie.


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## johng1974

Dougie, I have 2 stacks, one for black and one for grey I think...

No, blue smell not my fave


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## 90487

Dougie, The tanks must be vented somehow  Euro vans just have a hole on the top of grey tanks as a vent:lol: It is common for US to have the vent tee into the black vent for convenience.

However, The black tank must be vented. and usually a black 1.5" abs pipe. If the black tank has no vent it is going to try and release build up of gas through the toilet seals, the valve seals do retain a bit of water don't they?

As you mentioned the smell can be coming from either tank suggests a common connection. Try keeping plugs in the sinks and shower to try and rule out venting back through the traps. 

If the venting system is working and been designed and installed properly then there should be no need for chemicals at all.

Carol


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## Grizzly

Have you by any chance washed water in which you have boiled eggs down the sink into the grey waste ?

We've only done it twice but believe me we never do it now. It's amazing how smelly just one pan full of apparently clean water can become in the tank.

G


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## Snelly

Our RV grey tank used to honk after 4 or 5 days. You got a few choices, roof vent cyclone thingy from your favorite RV parts dealer (www.starspangledspanner.com) and/or some bio magic. Black tank should be sealed when all the traps are shut. Maybe you got a blocked vent or dodgy seal somewhere? Same cyclone vent and bio magic can be used on black tank.

http://www.starspangledspanner.com/shop/spares/waste/cyclone-waste-tank-vent/prod_10.html


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## Cherekee

Hi,

Have you tried BioMagic? It will easily get rid of the grey tank smell. After each trip I pour an egg cup full down each drain and an extra one for the tank. Never bother putting the plugs in the sinks as not required. It will also cleanout the black tank on your RV and then you can get back to normal use.

Cheers

Alan


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## Busty

Talking about bad smells

I had a bad smell once i didnt realize it was my overalls i was working with pigs and it took me such a long time to realise it was my job that caused the smell. Have an outside shed now for dirty clothes.

Busty


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## exmusso

*Terrible Smell*

Hi Dougie,

Might be worth investigating (should come naturally) your septic tank as they don't like the toilet chemicals.

Perhaps all the blue has killed off the bacteria.

I'm hopefully speaking from experience here as my septic tank is due to be desludged shortly.

I used to empty the M/H cassette with normal or should I say "bog standard" Aquakem.

I'm now using Biomagic which is septic tank beastie friendly.

Also do you have a u-bend type trap which should stop smells coming back in?

Cheers,
Alan


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## DABurleigh

I'm with Alan on Biomagic. I can't say I've ever really had a problem, but we've got into the habit of periodically using a hand garden spray filled with 50:50 Biomagic: water to squirt a dash down all plugholes and with it set to atomise to mist the loo surfaces as a lazy way to keep things fresh.

Dave


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## artona

Hi Dougie

_Maybe you got a blocked vent or dodgy seal somewhere? _

could well be. The other thing we do every other black tank empty is flush it out. We do this by switching off the pump, opening the loo vent and then literally filling it with a water pipe. After filling for about 2/3 mins I then open the outlet again. I repeat this 2/3 times until the the water comes out clear.

If its an empty that I am not doing the flush I always empty the black before the grey so the grey flushes out the pipe.

stew


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## asprn

Thanks all (apart from the idiot pig troll). To answer most of the points:-

The house septic tank is 60 meters away (might as well be a mile) so doesn't enter the equation.

Carol, I don't doubt you're correct. I'll check again later today.

It's a No to boiled eggs, but I'll remember that anyway. 8O

Worth clarifying that the smell from the black tank was quite different to the one from the grey tank, and I'm sure that they're separate issues (probably lack of "blue" and also not enough water being used to flush, hence the liquid contents becoming exceedingly strong :roll Sorry if that ultimately has confused the main issue of the eggy pong from the grey tank.

I emptied the grey late afternoon yesterday via the slinky, and my God did it vent somewhere nearby. 8O 8O Put blue in the grey tank pending getting some Bio Magic - thanks for the tip re. that.

Dougie.


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## 104477

Just for those who have the smaller grey water tanks who might follow the thread, we got rid of a niffy smell from our (70ltr) tank using Milton steralising tablets dissolved in a bucket of water, then pour down sink, basin and shower 20 minute drive then empty out. Worked a treat.

Hope you get yours resolved Asprn.
regards Rob.


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## artona

Hi

I am no chemist Dougie but I am sure that the "blue" might actually stop the biomagic from working. Maybe someone who knows might confirm or trash that idea. 

In anycase I would totally flush the system before changing. I can remember from my days of using bio that the "pink" flush system designed to work with the "blue" will stop the bio.

The beauty for us of the american system is that we don't have to use chemicals of any nature. I wonder if the black is as simple as you are not using it enough - did you say you are only using it for 1% of your urges.

With bio I remember being told that if you did not need to do a "number2" to put a spoonful of dirt in to get it crackling.


stew


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## Cherekee

Hi again,

Yes Artona is correct. The blue and any Bio treatment must not be mixed.
The way BioMagic works is to treat the system utilising the bacteria present in the system. If you or anybody uses Blue or Domestos type product you kill the bacteria and you will be wasting your money. Good idea to clean and flush the tanks out first. A fellow motorhomer I know forgot to empty his cassette out in SEPTEMBER last year and when he did his first trip in May all he found in the tank was brown water which he put on his rose bush and the cleanest cassette he had seen since new.

Alan


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## olley

Hi dougie we had the same problem, mainly when driving with a window open, I tried the cowls that duncan sells but without success, the reason imho is because if the air can't get in to the tank then it can't get out, so I broke into the basin waste (on a winnie this goes into the black tank) and ran a flexy hose to the outside underneath, now the air can get into the tank and out through the roof vent. No more smells 

The winnie has separate vents for black and grey, another problem you could have is that the vent pipes have dropped down into the tank.

The good bacteria must have oxygen to work, starve the tank of oxygen and you get the bad bacteria which produces the nasty smells (Hydrogen Sulfide)

You can buy small electric fans which fit on the top off the vents here: http://www.ehow.com/how_2173735_eliminate-holding-tank-odors-rv.html

Duncans cowls shown below.


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## Don_Madge

oilslick said:


> When the stuff in the grey tank starts fermenting it smells awful and the gas produced bubbles out of the shower and basins etc. we always put blue toilet stuff in the grey tank to kill the bugs and stop this happening.
> 
> Grant


Hi Grant,

One has to be very careful where one empties ones grey water if you have put toilet blue in the tank.

In the past I've used the blue to give the tank a good swill round and on arrival at one site I was accused of emptying my toilet into a normal drain. I did explain what was happening but the site warden was not convinced.

Don


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## CliveMott

*SOCKS*

My apologies chaps,
I only change my socks when they pass the sticky test. That is you throw them at the wall and they stick to it!

C.


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## annetony

There is nothing worse than a smell you cant get rid of 8O 

I usually put a drop of concentrated zoflora in mine and that usually keeps the smells away 8) 


Anne


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## asprn

artona said:


> I am no chemist Dougie but I am sure that the "blue" might actually stop the biomagic from working


Seems like you've hit on an important point, as others have confirmed this. I'll abandon the blue in favour of Bio Magic then.



artona said:


> I wonder if the black is as simple as you are not using it enough - did you say you are only using it for 1% of your urges


lol - I did. What I meant is that there's a whole lot of pee & no poo, plus there wasn't a great deal of flushing water being added. It was getting used regularly (if you'll pardon the pun) but only for that purpose.

Some good suggestions, so thanks Rob/Alan/Dave/Stew/Don. Not sure about Clive though. What have your socks got to do with anything (relevant)? 8O

Dougie.


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## randonneur

*Smell*

You say you use a 3" slinky, do you mean the corrugated pipe? When we used to have a caravan we always had problems with this type of pipe as things get caught up in the ridges and are difficult to clean.

The other thing is that you say you have a Septic Tank and use Blue, this shouldn't be used as it kills the bacteria in the Septic Tank, nothing with Formaldehyde should be used only the Green or Bio stuff.

Just had our Septic Tank emptied and had to renew the bacteria eating granules although we use a proprietary bio product every week.


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## asprn

*Re: Smell*



randonneur said:


> You say you use a 3" slinky, do you mean the corrugated pipe? When we used to have a caravan we always had problems with this type of pipe as things get caught up in the ridges and are difficult to clean.
> 
> The other thing is that you say you have a Septic Tank and use Blue, this shouldn't be used as it kills the bacteria in the Septic Tank, nothing with Formaldehyde should be used only the Green or Bio stuff.
> 
> Just had our Septic Tank emptied and had to renew the bacteria eating granules although we use a proprietary bio product every week.


Yes, it's the corrugated pipe. Never had any difficulty with sticking solids in it, due to not having any significant solid "bits" (e.g. cereal) in the grey waste.

We had a septic tank (for about 13 years) at our last place, and this place has the same type (brick chamber). I take the point again about the blue, and have already converted to Bio-ism (I'm designing some special headgear for my new religion, which I'll be promoting shortly.... ).

Dougie.


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## artona

Hi

Bioasprn - a newly formulated and fuming religion :lol: :lol: 

stew


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## G2EWS

Hi Dougie,

Do I take it you are stationery as the house is being re built!

If so this may be part of the problem. The vent which you must have on the roof will need air to circulate which draws bad air out of tanks.

More importantly you are most certainly making a mistake with putting any chemical in the tank! RV tanks work on the same principle as a septic tank and what you really need to do is make sure you poo in it number 1's only is of no use to you whatsoever! You must get that bacteria breeding and all your troubles will be over.

Check out this:

http://www.phrannie.org/macerator.html

Which was one of the first things I read when I joined MHF.

So the answer is get pooing!

Regards

Chris


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## asprn

G2EWS said:


> Do I take it you are stationery as the house is being re built!


You take it quite correctly, sah.



G2EWS said:


> The vent which you must have on the roof will need air to circulate which draws bad air out of tanks


So indeed I've learnt over the past couple of days.



G2EWS said:


> More importantly you are most certainly making a mistake with putting any chemical in the tank!


And that. 



G2EWS said:


> So the answer is get pooing!


With pleasure, sah.  Thanks very much for that. I'll be thinking of you.



Dougie.


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## artona

Hi

_With pleasure, sah. Very Happy Thanks very much for that. I'll be thinking of you._

Take the strain out of life Dougie. I recommend a Chicken Phal with a Meat Vindaloo and a side salad laxative. All washed down with copious amounts at Bud.........................

helping you to help yerloo

stew


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## asprn

:lol:

"Hi there folks, my name is Stew,
helping you to help yerloo...."


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## artona

Hi

Always smiling he is, even on top of Everest!!


stew


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

asprn said:


> :lol:
> 
> "Hi there folks, my name is Stew,
> helping you to help yerloo...."


Dougie, its those Tesco Value Baked Beans you tight git, buy Heinz, the proper ones for gentlemen.!!!


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## asprn

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Dougie, its those Tesco Value Baked Beans you tight git, buy Heinz, the proper ones for gentlemen.!!!


I resemble that.

:lol:

Dougie.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

asprn said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dougie, its those Tesco Value Baked Beans you tight git, buy Heinz, the proper ones for gentlemen.!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I resemble that.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

 Took you long enough to spot it and reply, laying bricks in the dark leads to bent walls!! :lurk: ottytrain3:


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## asprn

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Took you long enough to spot it and reply


I do have a life outside MHF. Hard to believe, but there it is.



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> laying bricks in the dark leads to bent walls!!


That's presumably a euphemism for something related to the topic. I'll try & work it out later with a pencil.

Dougie.


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## asprn

By way of an update, Duncan (damondunc) sent me a Cyclone vent sail, which I've just fitted. There was no vent smell from the original cap - and even after I removed the cap - but after I fitted the fluted swivel vent, I immediately whiffed what I would expect to whiff.  It was still venting away nicely after I finished sealing it, and there was only a very light breeze too.

Very encouraged already (and the BioMagic is ordered). Thanks everyone! What a great community this is.


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## Seeker

Thetford produce a grey water tank freshener that you're supposed to add regularly. I know because I bought some today to deal with just the same problem. That smell is putrid! 

Flushing the tank out with fresh water every time would add an hour to a water change every three days - not ideal when you're on the move and want to make progress.

We noticed it was worse when the vehicle was standing still for 30 hours being repaired - quite embarassing when we got back in - the Italian mechanics must have thought the English a filthy bunch after that!

Harry


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## artona

Hi Dougie

_By way of an update, Duncan (damondunc) sent me a Cyclone vent sail, which I've just fitted. _

Glad I mentioned your plight to him then   

stew


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## zappy61

*terrible smell*



rapidorob said:


> Just for those who have the smaller grey water tanks who might follow the thread, we got rid of a niffy smell from our (70ltr) tank using Milton steralising tablets dissolved in a bucket of water, then pour down sink, basin and shower 20 minute drive then empty out. Worked a treat.
> 
> Hope you get yours resolved Asprn.
> regards Rob.


I do this every couple of months. After sterilising the freshwater tanks with chlorine tablets to 25ppm I then flush it through to the waste tanks (via the cold taps only!) and leave for a couple of hours then wash out. Only ever had the bad eggs smell once but not since I do the above. It wasn't through boiling eggs by the way!


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## asprn

artona said:


> Glad I mentioned your plight to him then


Yes, yes, yes. The commission cheque's in the post. :roll:

Dougie.


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## artona

Hi

Double bubble - fantastic :lol: :lol: :lol: 

stew


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## zappy61

asprn said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took you long enough to spot it and reply
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a life outside MHF. Hard to believe, but there it is.
> 
> 
> 
> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> laying bricks in the dark leads to bent walls!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's presumably a euphemism for something related to the topic. I'll try & work it out later with a pencil.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

Well if you are going music hall:

"I say, I say, I say"

"My dogs got no nose!!"

*"How dose he smell?"*

_*
. . . . . . . "Bloody Awful!"*_


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## asprn

zappy61 said:


> "My dogs got no nose...."


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## zappy61

:lol: Sorry Dougie, I just had to.


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