# SEAFRANCE PRESS RELEASE - updated 10/1/12



## Carl_n_Flo

For consistency, I have placed the latest info and press release here:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1153540.html#1153540

This thread is just to highlight the very important nature of the information in case it gets lost in the maelstrom of topics.....

Carl

date updated again again again again...:wink: :roll:


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## Zebedee

Thanks Carl

I have stickied this and left the title in capitals, since it clearly counts as "emergency information" for some members.

Dave


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## Carl_n_Flo

Also to advise............

The SeaFrance booking engine no longer works - the website is only showing the press release.

All passengers booked with SeaFrance over the next day or so out of Dover are advised to turn up at Dover as usual as they are being transported by DFDS to Dunkerque (ironic!!!!).

Passengers due to travel from Calais are advised to make their way direct to Dunkerque where their tickets will be valid on the DFDS services to Dover.

Further info after tomorrows court session I guess....
Carl


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## craigrogers

I'll be watching with keen eyes, as I'm booked next month!  

Interesting though, if you look on some of the Ferry websites, they are still taking bookings for Seafrance.


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## Uller

We turned up in Dover this morning for our SeaFrance crossing - we had no idea of what was going on!

PLEASE NOTE: DFDS told us that they had no space for 'high' (I think they said over 2.1m) vehicles until Saturday so don't bank on getting to Dunkerque with them.

We've booked with P&O for tomorrow (at half the price they quoted us for travelling today) and will just stay locally tonight.


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## lucy2

I have just been on their www, just a press release. I think they are in the s**t, RIP.

ps we fell out with Seafrance a number of years ago when we turned up 3 boats early & wanted £ 40 extra but would not give a receipt for the money.


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## rosalan

Bump


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## GEMMY

About time for a bump! :lol: 

tony


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## peedee

Is it necesary to bump a sticky?????

Never did much like Sea France, both of my last trips with them, BTV, (Before Tesco Vouchers) were late departing. I prefer the tunnel as long as Tesco vouchers can be used.

peedee


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## Grizzly

You and Yours on BBC radio 4 are about to do a piece about Seafrance ( 12 noon today 16th Nov.)

G


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## bognormike

link here which sets out some details of DFDS /LD bid

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Artic...s-boss-dismisses-rival-bid-for-seafrance.html


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## Zebedee

peedee said:


> Is it necesary to bump a sticky?????


Yes it is Peedee.

They "stick" until a certain number (forget how many) of other posts have occurred since the last post on the sticky thread.

Then it drops to where it would have been if it wasn't a sticky.

_I think! :? . . . . . . . . Well, something like that!! 8O . . . . . . . . More or less!!! :roll: _

But they do need a bump if they drop down the list.

Dave


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## bognormike

and I've just picked this up -

http://connexionfrance.com/SeaFranc...nal-DFDS-Dover-Calais-13173-view-article.html

it seems the bids are not good enough, so the court has given the 2 months to get it sorted. Sounds like they've ducked out of shutting it down?


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## Carl_n_Flo

UPDATE 16th November,

_The Paris Commercial court has ruled the liquidation of SeaFrance......................BUT...................not until 28th January 2012!!!!! (?).

It considers the bid from DFDS/LDLines to be insufficient in monetary terms (E5m to buy 3 ships) and too socially devisive.

It considers the bid by SCOP (workers co-operative/Union bid) to be unfunded.

All parties have until 28th January 2012 to improve their offers, or the ships end up at the local car-boot sale (that last comment is mine!!!!)_

This is getting beyond a joke - the Company is dead!!!! The Unions do not want DFDS to buy it.....the Unions have no money to buy it themselves........no-one else wants to buy it..........

Just turn off the life-support machine and let the patient die with dignity!!!!!

Carl


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## bognormike

looks like we were posting at the same time, Carl!

I agree, it's just keeping it going, are people really going to book trips for next year if the company might not be in existence in 2012?


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## Carl_n_Flo

Surely, if a Company is in liquidation, how can it possibly carry on trading?

Suppliers are going to want everything paid in cash, not risking credit. Bunkers (fuel) is going to be difficult to come by - imagine paying by debit or credit card to fill one of those ferries with diesel!!! And dont think that wont happen - it has happened to airlines in the past on rumours of imminent collapse (DAN-AIR).

Who is going to risk booking with SF, only to turn up at the port and find them on strike again.

It is becoming a farce!!!!
Carl


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## steco1958

Carl_n_Flo said:


> It is becoming a farce!!!!
> Carl


No it is not becoming a farce

It is a "Farce"


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## Philippft

*Seafrance - Latest - two month reprieve*

Latest court news on Seafrance.

http://connexionfrance.com/SeaFranc...nal-DFDS-Dover-Calais-13173-view-article.html


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## BritStops

Hmm. Time for a "staycation", maybe? :wink: 

Only sayin'


Steve


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## jud

hi i wonder if p&o e.t.c will put there prices up now . only ever been on sea France once in 2004 and change some money at there bureau DE change onboard turned out over half was funny money very good copies so that was the end of them .jud


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## bognormike

*Re: Seafrance - Latest - two month reprieve*



Philippft said:


> Latest court news on Seafrance.
> 
> http://connexionfrance.com/SeaFranc...nal-DFDS-Dover-Calais-13173-view-article.html


phil - see my post above with that link!


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## Carl_n_Flo

*Update from SeaFrance website*

_SeaFranceUrgent informationThe Tribunal has decided today that the company will be put into full administration but with the continuation of the business.

This decision has set a new deadline of 12th December for the receipt of new offers.Later today we will confirm the date and time of resumption of schedule services on the Dover Calais route.Should you need any further information, Please contact us on +44 (0) 845 458 0666 to speak to a member of staff._

Carl


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## bognormike

thanks Karl 

what a mess! so they are saying give us your money and we might be able to take you if we find the money to pay for the staff wages, fuel etc, but it might be that we can't take you in which case you're money's lost. Would anybody in their right mind pay for a crossing next year, or even up to the end of 2011? 

caveat emptor......


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## Philippft

I have just come off the phone with Seafrance.

They tell me they will still operate until the end of January and honour any journeys paid for.

The date of the 12th december is only to give SF more time to find other bidder's.

I was also told that if the company goes belly up, customers would be refunded for lost fares/journeys through the Passenger Shipping Association.

At least SeaFrance staff will have a job till the end of January which is better than being laid off before Christmas.


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## Philippft

Further to my last, I have just been informed by the Passenger Shipping Association that Seafrance is not covered by them and they have mislead me!

I will now ask for a refund and see what happens!


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Looks like the end is nigh.
Unions, courts and France. enough said.

I did prefer SF to P&O but now save my tesco vouchers.

Dave p


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## Philippft

Just come off the phone frpm SeaFrance:

Guy in customer services informs me after a lenghthy conversation that he has to tell customers what his boss's tell him to say, so he's sticking to his guns with respect to passessngers fares being protected. (He is unable to tell me by whom!)

When i asked for a refund i was told i was not entitled to one !

So worst case senario is no crossing with Seafrance but i'm hopefull i can make the Calsi crossing end of December and only have to buy a single with another operator on the way back, assumming SF goes tit's up.

I feel for the staff, they must feel like crap having to follow the line their boss's are telling them to, knowing they could soon be out of a job.


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## Carl_n_Flo

Philippft said:


> Just come off the phone frpm SeaFrance:
> 
> Guy in customer services .................
> 
> I feel for the staff, they must feel like crap having to follow the line their boss's are telling them to, knowing they could soon be out of a job.


Dont feel too sorry for the staff....

Source : LePoint.fr

_The sailors of the ferry company SeaFrance greeted with shouts of joy, in
Calais, the decision of the Commercial Court of Paris which gave Wednesday the
judicial liquidation of the company while maintaining the activity until January
28, 2012. "It's a great relief for all sailors, but with the feeling that we
have even more responsibility on our hands now," said Didier Cappelle, secretary
of the CFDT maritime majority.

"We must roll up our sleeves and we will ensure closer especially now
(instances) policies, the SNCF, the state, to achieve funding, to help us
achieve the Scop" (Cooperative and participatory), said Didier Cappelle. Of the
two takeover bids submitted is a draft of Scop, which plans to retain all 880
permanent jobs.

Some 100 to 150 employees were massed near the top of a platform that Didier
Capelle announced the news. "It's a nice Christmas present!" welcomed the
employees, some sounding large firecrackers, at the announcement._--------------------------------------------------------------------

Cloud cookoo land springs to mind......

They really dont understand..............................
Carl


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## Mrplodd

Well I wonder where I stand !!

I booked a multi-trip Carnet a fair while back and I still have one (return) crossing unused.

Mrs Plodd has her leg in plaster having broken her ankle in 4 places 3 weeks ago whilst we were walking to coast path in Devon ( BIG thank you to the Mortoe Coastguard Rescue team who came to our rescue) So I am not able to use that crossing before the end of January. 

Anyone want to make me an offer for it?? It "owes" me £69 PM if interested.


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## bognormike

I've just been in on the SF web site, and this message is still on

"SeaFrance

Urgent information


Paris 16th november 2011.
The management of the company has today been placed under the control of the administrators.

They have decided that commercial activities of the company will resume as soon as all the issues concerning safety and security are resolved.
We are conscious of the inconvenience this situation is causing and we apologise for this. We will keep you informed of any changes in the present situation.

Should you need any further information, Please contact us on +44 (0) 845 458 0666 to speak to a member of staff."

"as soon as all the issues concerning safety and security are resolved" - what does that mean? 

Are they back on the water? Have the staff gone on strike again? Or have they just got no money to pay for fuel or the port costs? 
:roll:


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## Rapide561

*Sea France*

Firstly, I feel for the staff involved in this.

Secondly, good riddance to bad rubbish. How can a firm that is propped up by the French state compete on a even footing with P&O? It was never fair.

For anyone who has a crossing booked, I hope you are covered under the section 74, payments by credit card.

Personally, I think the ships will be at sea in a few days.

Russell


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## GEMMY

:lol: :lol: :lol: Looks more professional than just saying 'bump'
cos the glue don't work.

tony


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## bognormike

GEMMY said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: Looks more professional than just saying 'bump'
> cos the glue don't work.
> 
> tony


creative bumping, Tony.
a bit like creative accounting, but more interesting 8)


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## bognormike

Russell - agree with all you say, but why haven't they started up today?


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## dilly

*Re: Sea France*



Rapide561 said:


> Firstly, I feel for the staff involved in this.
> 
> Secondly, good riddance to bad rubbish. How can a firm that is propped up by the French state compete on a even footing with P&O? It was never fair.
> 
> +1 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Rapide561

*Shipping*

Mike

Now fully clued up on this but I would guess that operations were suspended "in case the worse had immediately come to the worse" and ferries were loaded with cars and passsengers etc.

In the interim, the adminitrator is running the firm and so probably must satisfy himself all "is ship shape" etc

Interestingly on 17th November 2008, administrators were appointed at Speedferries.

Russell


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## jo662

Well I think it is always sad when a firm goes under,especially for all the staff.We`ve used SF on numerous occasions without any problems.
Aiso in my opinion the more competition the better the prices! If anyone has used steam packet ferrys to the Isle of Man you will know what i mean.


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## teemyob

*Re: Sea France*



dilly said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I feel for the staff involved in this.
> 
> Secondly, good riddance to bad rubbish. How can a firm that is propped up by the French state compete on a even footing with P&O? It was never fair.
> 
> +1 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Does not help competition though does it?
Click to expand...


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## dilly

*Re: Sea France*



teemyob said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I feel for the staff involved in this.
> 
> Secondly, good riddance to bad rubbish. How can a firm that is propped up by the French state compete on a even footing with P&O? It was never fair.
> 
> +1 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Does not help competition though does it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps not, but as Rapide says " it was never fair to start with"
> People can use the tunnel if they dont like P&O, personally if the roles were reversed and it was P&O in trouble I would willingly pay more for a tunnel crossing.
Click to expand...


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## cabby

surely this does not ned a bump, as it is in the sticky's on the top. :? :? 

cabby


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## bognormike

Hi Cabby

yes, if you're accessing from the front page, or the Ferries forum, but not from the index page. 

But it's getting a fair amount of attention so it's keeping up there on the index page.... :wink: 

and the SF web site is still showing the "holding" notice.


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## peedee

In my view whatever the outcome it will mean sea crossing fare increases. Hopefully it will not effect tunnel prices?

peedee


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## bognormike

I think you're right, Peedee, the fares are ridiculously cheap at the moment and will go up. As for the chunnel, I think theirs will go up as well, and maybe they will keep them just above the ferries as a "premium" purchase.


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## dalspa

We have been using SF for 3 or 4 years now, going over to France 2 or 3 times each year using their carnet ticket system. We have always had good service and the flexibility of the carnet tickets (no booking - just turn up) was brilliant. Will be very sad to see SF go.


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## ThursdaysChild

Forgive my ignorance ( being a Dunkirk user ), but if SF cease trading would that leave P&O as the sole Dover-Calais operator ?

How would that stack up with the UK, French and EU Monopoly Regulators ?

Come to think of it, how would that stack up with the French port workers ?


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## bognormike

ThursdaysChild said:


> Forgive my ignorance ( being a Dunkirk user ), but if SF cease trading would that leave P&O as the sole Dover-Calais operator ?
> 
> How would that stack up with the UK, French and EU Monopoly Regulators ?
> 
> Come to think of it, how would that stack up with the French port workers ?


somebody would come in - probably DFDS and / or LD - the court are waiting for a better offer from them. I doubt if anybody else would be in the mix - they would need very deep pockets, and the patience of saints to deal with the French unions.....

and if anybody's booking for next year, maybe do it now with P&O or the tunnel or DFDS to dunkirk - prices will go up... :roll:


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## rayrecrok

Hi.
Me thinks it will be a tad busy on the 30th of this month on DFDS when we sail to Dunkirk.

ray.


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## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 17.11.11*

*UPDATE 17.11.11*

With SeaFrance services still suspended 'until further notice', P&O have increased capacity at Dover by bringing back the European Seaway from lay-up at Tilbury, and increased night sailings.

*P&O boosts Dover-Calais capacity as SeaFrance sailings remain suspended*

http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/P-O-boo...ty-SeaFrance/story-13875319-detail/story.html

_Thursday, November 17, 2011

RhysGriffiths

SEAFRANCE services between the Port of Dover and Calais remain suspended today after yesterday's ruling by a Paris commercial court to liquidate the business if suitable takeover plan is not produced within weeks.It is understood the company's administrators ordered the continued suspension of crossings on the English Channel following the news yesterday lunchtime. Sailings were already on hold because of fears of an 'adverse reaction' to events in the French capital.

Due to the reduction in the number of sailings on the busy short-sea route P&O Ferries will today bring its freight vessel European Seaway out of lay-up to boost the available capacity to and from Dover. It also ran extra sailings overnight to deal with a backlog of traffic.

Meanwhile, senior figures at the embattled French ferry firm, a subsidiary of the national railway operator SNCF, are understood to have met at a board meeting this morning to discuss the company's increasingly bleak future.

The ruling of the tribunal in Paris, which rejected possible takeovers by a workers cooperative and a joint bid by DFDS Seaways and LD Lines, means that unless an improved offer is received by the middle of December the company will finally be wound up in the new year.

Reacting to the news from Paris, a spokesman for DFDS said only that it had "noted the court's decision and will consider potential next steps"._


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## craigrogers

Am I the only one thinking here that whichever way it goes, DFDS will ultimately win anyway????

Think about it, there's 2 real outcomes;

1) DFDS manage to get the takeover, Seafrance (or maybe rebadged) will continue the sailings.

2) Liquidation will force the sale of the Ships and other assets. DFDS can then purchase all the assets and use it to run a Dover <> Calais service.

I understand (well actually I don't) that the Union's don't want the DFDS takeover, but whichever way, it could happen anyway, with or without the current Seafrance workforce.

So to sum up, wouldn't be in the unions/workforces benefit if the takeover happened?

Or have I missed something?


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## andrewball1000

I have two outstanding return tickets on SF to be taken by May next year. I have just spoken on the phone with them an they assure me that, when crossings are resumed, I will be able to use them up to 28th Jan and any outstanding at that time will be refunded. 

On my Carnet of three returns, one of them is transferable to another party without the need for me to travel with them. This may apply to other holders who can't use all theirs and may want to give one to a friend for a quick wine run before Christmas in case the refund doesn't happen.


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## bognormike

craigrogers said:


> Am I the only one thinking here that whichever way it goes, DFDS will ultimately win anyway????
> 
> Think about it, there's 2 real outcomes;
> 
> 1) DFDS manage to get the takeover, Seafrance (or maybe rebadged) will continue the sailings.
> 
> 2) Liquidation will force the sale of the Ships and other assets. DFDS can then purchase all the assets and use it to run a Dover <> Calais service.
> 
> I understand (well actually I don't) that the Union's don't want the DFDS takeover, but whichever way, it could happen anyway, with or without the current Seafrance workforce.
> 
> So to sum up, wouldn't be in the unions/workforces benefit if the takeover happened?
> 
> Or have I missed something?


yes, either of those would sound a likely scenario Craig. The unions however appear to be living in a could cuckoo land of keeping all the ships and not losing any jobs.


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## craigrogers

Exactly my point. As with most unions, they normally do more harm than good IMHO.

If the sale went through, they'd probably keep more jobs..........


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## ThursdaysChild

Can anyone give us a potted explanation of how P&O can make Dover-Calais work, but SF cannot ?
Same port services, similar ships, same sailing frequency etc etc ?


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## Carl_n_Flo

There are only really two options:

Sale to DFDS/LDLines (P&O are not interested...)

Or 

Complete liquidation and shut-down......which means that all assets will be up for grabs and everyone at SF is out of work.

The Union bid to buy the company has no hope of succeeding because it relies on State funding (illegal) through the back door. They want the Government of Nord pas de Calais to buy the freight ferry 'Nord pas de Calais' (!) and lease it back to the 'Union Company' for 'a nominal amount', thereby in effect giving them a free ship.......

In a liquidation sale, the value of the ships (which was the main failing point in the DFDS bid - they valued them too low) will be whatever anyone is willing to pay for them.....and in this climate, that will not be much!!!!!

The argument of the Unions is that they are French ships, paid for withFrench money and they dont want the Danes to get them 'on the cheap'.............which they will do anyway if they liquidate!!!!!

Billy Smarts Circus is more believable than the bunch of clowns running the CFDT Union.................but then, the Union activists will not be out of a job when SF finally go to the wall......they are employed by the Union, not SF.

Carl


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## Carl_n_Flo

ThursdaysChild said:


> Can anyone give us a potted explanation of how P&O can make Dover-Calais work, but SF cannot ?
> Same port services, similar ships, same sailing frequency etc etc ?


Better Union relations..........cheaper wages.....less staff......larger organisation (economy of scale)..............

PLUS - any losses are spread and absorbed by the rest of the Group (to a certain extent). I dont think any of the operators on the short sea crossing are sitting on fat profits at the moment.....the fares are economically too low.....I think it is mainly the freight side of the business that is pushing the viability of the crossings....
Carl


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## Zebedee

A quick bermp (_think Clouseau_ :lol: ) for the evening shift.

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Unions run the business.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Best laugh for ages.


Dave p


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## craigrogers

Bit annoyed as I'm due to travel with SF on Dec 17 (and back on the 18th).

I booked with Direct Ferries who have just emailed me to contact them to change/cancel my booking.

As far as Seafrance are concerned, the crossing should be ok. It's 4 weeks away.

However, as the robbing barstewarts that are P&O are capatalising buy increasing their fares by almost 100% (was £80, now over £150 since Wednesday's news), I've noticed that the Tunnel have reduced their fares for that weekend to £79. 

So, currently on hold to try and transfer to the Tunnel.


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## craigrogers

...what a great service, couldn't ask for anymore than that.

The guy I spoke to basically said, the best and cheapest way is for them to refund the ferry crossing and then re-book for the Tunnel.

All done, booked direct with EuroTunnel for £72.


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## pneumatician

TH first time we used the tunnel was FOC from Sea France because the ships could't get in to Dover.
Held them in high regard ever since, but no more freebies.
We seem to cross with whoever takes my fancy now.
We did like the new P&O Ship.

Steve


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## craigrogers

I would of rathered ship than tunnel to be honest, but as P&O are just robbing everyone since Wednesday AND it was half the price by Tunnel. Tunnel it is.


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## bognormike

well, still no change on the SF website.

and P&O are just taking advantage of being the only Do - Ca operator for the moment.


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## lucy2

bognormike said:


> well, still no change on the SF website.
> 
> and P&O are just taking advantage of being the only Do - Ca operator for the moment.


yes the wording has changed, they have dropped the security part of their statement.

I think the longer they wait to resume normal, the less chance they will ever resume until the 16th december ( i think that is the next important date)


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## bognormike

maybe they've gone over their credit card limit on the fuel?
what a shambles :roll:


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## Stanner

bognormike said:


> and P&O are just taking advantage of being the only Do - Ca operator for the moment.


Luckily I booked a day trip a week ago for £19 including 6 bottles of wine and a BOGOF breakfast.

So P&O won't be ripping me off.

Then off to Benelux/Germany on an NEC special with DFDS a week later so for now P&O can do just that.


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## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 18.11.11*

Well, it seems that SeaFrance may not sail again!!!

*SeaFrance ferries stay in dock *
Friday 18 November 2011 
_SeaFrance's ferries are to remain in dock until further notice in what staff unions claim amounts to an illegal lock-out._

A senior SeaFrance official told IFW the Channel ferry operator's judicial administrators had decided that commercial activities will only resume when the safety of vessels, staff and property can be guaranteed.

Meanwhile, the company's staff, seafarers and land-based workers, have been told to stay at home.

It is understood SeaFrance's decision was prompted by rising tension between staff and a management said to be wary of being held responsible in the event that a serious incident occurred onboard.

SeaFrance management also claimed that some union leaders had threatened to sink vessels.

On Wednesday, the Paris commercial court ordered the liquidation of SeaFrance, but allowed the company to continue trading until 28 January.

The court judged that the two bids submitted for SeaFrance - one from DFDS and LD Lines and the other from a co-operative of SeaFrance workers - were unsatisfactory. However, it has left the door open to new offers to be submitted before 12 December

The shutdown has angered SeaFrance's main staff union, the CFDT, whose officials suspect management is trying to sabotage the workers co-operative bid to take over the company.

"What management is doing is called a lock-out, and it's illegal, and we are going to explore all the political means to put an end to it," one senior union official said.

A meeting is scheduled with Transport Minister Thierry Mariani tomorrow.

Trucks turning up at Calais with SeaFrance tickets have been re-directed to other operators, with P&O Ferries reported to have put on an extra vessel to absorb the surplus traffic.

While the shutdown has been justified out of fear of damage to vessels and company property, another reason is financial, with the company rumoured to only have enough cash flow to continue trading until 15 December.

By keeping vessels in dock it can economise on operating costs and be able to hold out until the end of January next year.

However, the union said this would ruin SeaFrance's core business, with customers switching to competitors.

P&O have brought back the European Seaway to soak up any extra traffic, however Dover is quiet at the moment - no backlogs, no 'Operation Stack', no delays.

Carl


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## dilly

Stanner said:


> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> and P&O are just taking advantage of being the only Do - Ca operator for the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily I booked a day trip a week ago for £19 including 6 bottles of wine and a BOGOF breakfast.
> 
> So P&O won't be ripping me off.
> 
> Then off to Benelux/Germany on an NEC special with DFDS a week later so for now P&O can do just that.
Click to expand...

Theres no pleasing some folk :roll:


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## Stanner

dilly said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> and P&O are just taking advantage of being the only Do - Ca operator for the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily I booked a day trip a week ago for £19 including 6 bottles of wine and a BOGOF breakfast.
> 
> So P&O won't be ripping me off.
> 
> Then off to Benelux/Germany on an NEC special with DFDS a week later so for now P&O can do just that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Theres no pleasing some folk :roll:
Click to expand...

I doubt if the offer code works any more :wink:


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## dilly

They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm


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## teemyob

*for*



dilly said:


> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm


Only for cars?


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## Stanner

dilly said:


> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm


That does surprise me - they usually only run those offers when they are desperate to fill space.

Why give space away if the Dover - Calais capacity has just been effectively halved?


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## dilly

*Re: for*



teemyob said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Only for cars?
Click to expand...

I give up :roll:


----------



## GEMMY

Time to re-apply the glue :roll: 

tony


----------



## teemyob

*Re: for*



dilly said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Only for cars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I give up :roll:
Click to expand...

Give up what?


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 20.11.11*

_*UPDATE 20.11.11*_

It seems that the situation regarding SeaFrance is not going to get any better....

Latest news is that the administrators running the company have decided that the moneys left in the bank account will go further if they do NOT sail the ships.

As you can imagine, this has not gone down well with the French unions......they want to get their hands on the ships (ostensibly to sail them to timetable) but the administrators are fearfull of what may happen. The union have said, probably in the heat of the moment, that they will sink one of the ships at the entrance to the harbour to prevent P&O from docking. This is highly unlikely to actually happen, but a more likely scenario is that, should the crews be allowed back on board, they will move the ships into the berths at Calais and so prevent P&O from docking anyway.

Only 3 of the 4 ships are actually in Calais - the 4th (Nord pas de Calais - a freight only vessel) is stuck in Dover (luckily on a berth only she can use anyway, so not causing a problem to port operations). The administrators want her back in Calais, however there is a rumour that her engines have been sabotaged, so she isnt going anywhere without tug assistance.

For the traveller, it seems that whilst the remaining ferry crossings are running quite full, there doesnt seem to be much in the way of delays......any delays are more likely for high-sided vehicles as, for example, DFDS are carrying 1000 more trucks per day than would normally be the case.

Without trying to predict the future, it seems pretty clear to me that we have seen the last of SeaFrance (in its present form) and that anyone hoping to travel with SF in the run-up to Christmas would be wise to change their plans for crossing.

At the moment, it is not possible to book crossings with SF - and I anticipate this situation will remain so, until the company is finally wound up in December.

Just to clarify, at the moment the crews are NOT on strike - they have been sent home. It is the administrators decision to suspend all services.

Carl


----------



## bognormike

thanks Carl - with the current level of traffic they would probaly be in negative cash flow at this time of year, so not paying out for fuel & docking fees etc would make sense, even if they are paying out for all the wages. :roll:


----------



## clive1821

Thank you Carl, I have used sea france a lot and i did enjoy the way I could just turn up and go... no booking necessary..... still shame..... can only just hope they come back and I can enjoy my freedom


----------



## Penquin

Thanks Carl, I think we can all understand the fears of the admin team wanting to avoid damage to the ships or their seizure by union members or even worse the closure of a ferry port due to action using those ships.

It makes sense to isolate the ships from such possible occurrences since presumably they are virtually the only "assets" that the company has. Although how valuable they are depends on anyone wanting to buy them of course!

Dave


----------



## allan01273

Never say die

http://www.compareaway.co.uk/news/2011/11/19/seafrance-to-resume-operation/

Seafrance to resume

Nov 19th
Allan


----------



## rosalan

Just before all this S/F news arrived, my plans to cross were scuppered by my wife, who decided that snow and big waves were inevitable in mid January and I reluctantly booked the chunnel.
Why is it that wives have to be right? :roll: 
Alan


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

allan01273 said:


> Never say die
> 
> http://www.compareaway.co.uk/news/2011/11/19/seafrance-to-resume-operation/
> 
> Seafrance to resume
> 
> Nov 19th
> Allan


Hi Allan,
The report you link to is accurate....but only to a degree. It wasnt the undervalued bids that led to the company stopping operations, it was a fear over what the unions might do should the court have approved the take over by DFDS/LDLines. Following the court case, the administrators - and to be honest the unions - have realised that there is not enough cash in the pot to continue sailing the ships. That is why the unions want to get there hands on them to use as 'weapons' to blockade Calais. Whilst Calais is open to P&O, actions will prove that SeaFrance are not needed and that the existing sailings of P&O (and DFDS at Dunkerque) can adequately cope with the traffic on offer.

They 'can' continue operations until 28th January - but that does not mean that they 'will' sail the ships.

It has been reported that they have enough money to pay the saff, pay the impending redundancies and pay the redundancies come the end of January............but not enough to sail..........and no-one is going to extend credit to them to enable services to resume.

An article in Nord Littoral highlights the difficulty facing the administrator in unravelling Seafrance's finances.

The article notes that at present it looks unlikely December salaries can be paid. The administrator says the company loses less money with the ships tied up than sailing. It is possible that some kind of salary guarantee scheme will need to kick in(this may be a state scheme). In the most optimistic case Seafrance's coffers will be empty by mid December. The liquidation includes the company remaining in existence only so long as funds are available. The judge has ordered the seizure of two 'special accounts' which together contained €20m which was set aside to pay the remaining obligations to staff which departed under the restructuring plan. Those behind the SCOP plan are demanding this money is put into the SCOP since some of these posts would no longer be going. Legally however these sums are protected for the payment of those obligations and there is no possible way to release them for the SCOP. There are also some €28m ring fenced to pay redundancy to employees currently challenging their redundancy in court - another CFDT battle.

Source: Nord Littoral.

Carl


----------



## clive1821

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the info..... i have looked at the news paper but all I understand is the picture of the sea france ferry..... I did click onto the artical but can't understand a word of it... so thanks for the work you are going to for us....


----------



## GEMMY

Time for yet ANOTHER coat of glue. :roll: :wink: 

tony


----------



## goldi

Thanks carl & flofor keeping us updated.



norm


----------



## dilly

*Re: for*



teemyob said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Only for cars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I give up :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give up what?
Click to expand...

The deal is for a car, so dont understand your comment " Only for cars" 
:roll:


----------



## teemyob

*Re: for*



dilly said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are still advertising the offer http://www.poferries.com/tourist/content/pages/template/offers_day_trip_offer_day_trip_offer.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Only for cars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I give up :roll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give up what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deal is for a car, so dont understand your comment " Only for cars"
> :roll:
Click to expand...

Stanner Wrote:

"Luckily I booked a day trip a week ago for £19 including 6 bottles of wine and a BOGOF breakfast

So P&O won't be ripping me off.

Then off to Benelux/Germany on an NEC special with DFDS a week later so for now P&O can do just that"

He did not state what form of transport he was using, thought it may have been the motorhome?.

It was a question not a statement. I did not realise you were posting a car day trip without stating so.

TM


----------



## lookback

Had a booking on SeaFrance for the 12th Dec. Rang them today and they are going to refund my money. Now booked on DFDS.

Ian


----------



## bognormike

lookback said:


> Had a booking on SeaFrance for the 12th Dec. Rang them today and they are going to refund my money. Now booked on DFDS.
> 
> Ian


good of them to refund you, but why didn't they just switch you to one of the other carriers? Maybe it was cheaper for them to refund you than pay DFDS / P&O? :roll:


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

bognormike said:


> lookback said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had a booking on SeaFrance for the 12th Dec. Rang them today and they are going to refund my money. Now booked on DFDS.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> good of them to refund you, but why didn't they just switch you to one of the other carriers? Maybe it was cheaper for them to refund you than pay DFDS / P&O? :roll:
Click to expand...

Note the phrase *'going to'* - has it happpened yet?
I doubt the other carriers will even accept cross bookings from SF - they will consider that they wont get paid!!!
Carl


----------



## lookback

bognormike said:


> lookback said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had a booking on SeaFrance for the 12th Dec. Rang them today and they are going to refund my money. Now booked on DFDS.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> good of them to refund you, but why didn't they just switch you to one of the other carriers? Maybe it was cheaper for them to refund you than pay DFDS / P&O? :roll:
Click to expand...

I was offered the choice of being placed on another carriers crossing but did not want to chance turning up at the port and not getting a crossing. Better to get my money back and rebook with another carrier.

Ian


----------



## Mrplodd

Just had an email from Sea France following one I sent querying my remaining carnet ticket.

They advised that my ticket was still valid and that if I hung on to it any company taking over would honour the booking, or if I wanted I could have a refund.

I have decided a refund is probably the best option (money in hand to book another crossing rather than risk losing it)

I will keep you all posted as to whether I actually get my money back. 

I would ask that everyone keeps their fingers crossed for the staff, many of who are English and work at Dover, who are stuck in limbo not knowing if they will have a job at Xmas or not !! 

Think how YOU would feel if it was your job.  

I know the money is ringfenced for possible redundancies but thats certainly not the point is it??


----------



## bognormike

well said Mr Plod, and I wouldn't want to rely on the word of someone on the end of a phone (who might be out of a job by the end of the year  ) that any company taking on the business would honour the carnet. :roll:


----------



## Philippft

I too obtained a refund from Seafrance today! No questiomns asked and confirmation by email too.
Now booked with P & O.

I feel for the SeaFrance staff.


----------



## bognormike

still the message on the web site


----------



## andrewball1000

Philippft said:


> I too obtained a refund from Seafrance today! No questiomns asked and confirmation by email too.
> .


Hi Philip, can you please PM me the email address you used. I have tried ringing them today but the recorded message says that their contact centre is now closed. I have two trips left on my carnet which I would like refunded. I would have just used them before end of Jan but that is unlikely now.


----------



## FoweyBoy

A friend is in Brittany at the moment and due to return via SeaFrance on Friday. He phoned the number currently on the SeaFrance website and was told to check in as normal and they would be transferred to another carrier at no extra cost.


----------



## andrewball1000

further to my last post, the message has been removed and the Contact Centre is answering as normal. 

They are happy to refund carnets now if you want but suggest that anyone can just turn up at SSF check in and will be redirected to P&O or DFDS. This is working fine and will be cheaper that rebooking at the new inflated fares. 

I have opted for the refund as I cant get 2 returns in before end Jan.


----------



## lookback

SeaFrance have credited my account already!

Ian


----------



## Mrplodd

True to their word I have also now received a total refund for unused Carnet tickets. I just hope for the staff involved that someone takes the company AND ALL THE STAFF on!! Trouble is if DFDS or similar does take the operation on are they going to need all the current SF booking staff etc ???


----------



## bognormike

missed this one on Wednesday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15857694

surely it's still state aid, and even that is dependent on SNCF and the state putting in €10m as well, which is definitely state aid! :roll: I can't see that working.....


----------



## Mrplodd

True to their word I have also now received a total refund for unused Carnet tickets. I just hope for the staff involved that someone takes the company AND ALL THE STAFF on!! Trouble is if DFDS or similar does take the operation on are they going to need all the current SF booking staff etc ???


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

bognormike said:


> missed this one on Wednesday
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15857694
> 
> surely it's still state aid, and even that is dependent on SNCF and the state putting in €10m as well, which is definitely state aid! :roll: I can't see that working.....


We helped bail out the bankers so I see no difference to French state aid being given to aid SF and maintain jobs.
I know its against eu rulles but there are too many silly rules eminating from over the water imho.
The upside would be that there is still competition in the market.

Dave p


----------



## goldi

Dead right dtp.

norm


----------



## dilly

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> missed this one on Wednesday
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15857694
> 
> surely it's still state aid, and even that is dependent on SNCF and the state putting in €10m as well, which is definitely state aid! :roll: I can't see that working.....
> 
> 
> 
> We helped bail out the bankers so I see no difference to French state aid being given to aid SF and maintain jobs.
> I know its against eu rulles but there are too many silly rules eminating from over the water imho.
> The upside would be that there is still competition in the market.
> 
> Dave p
Click to expand...

Sorry but I have to disagree about competion , sometimes competion is Not good, have you noticed how many shops have closed in the high street because of all the out of town supermarkets etc? in my opinion the crossings have been too cheap for too long, hence the probable demise of SF


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 28.11.11*

Not so much an update of the SeaFrance situation - nothing changing there other than the Nord Pas de Calais freight vessel has now left Dover to sit in Dunkerque for a while (no UK harbour dues racking up then..). There are 'rumours' that the 'Arbitrator' may agree to the SCOP (workers co-operative) getting the ships running again by December 12th............but still no confirmation yet.

However:

DFDS have now chartered an extra vessel for the Dover - Dunkerque route until the end of January:

_*DFDS adds an extra ship to Dover-Dunkerque*_

_28 November 2011

DFDS Press Release

DFDS Seaways has decided to add an extra passenger and freight ship to our service between Dunkerque and Dover.

Currently, the service is operated with three passenger and freight ships, but the interruption to the SeaFrance cross-Channel service has been causing unexpected traffic pressure on the route, and in spite of the committed efforts of our staff at sea and ashore, the current capacity on the route has not been enough to avoid unusual waiting times at check-in in Dunkerque and Dover.

"It is not acceptable that our customers experience these waiting times, and for this reason we have decided to add an extra ship to the service. The solution is based on a chartered ship that will allow us to increase sailings from a departure every other hour to departures every 1½ hours. I am confident that this solution will re-establish the normal flow and service on the route so we can eliminate unnecessary waiting times and offer our customers the quality service which they are accustomed to," says Peder Gellert Pedersen, Executive Vice President and Head of DFDS' Shipping Division.

"The new ship on the route will be the NORMAN SPIRIT, which DFDS has char-tered from LD Lines. The ship has capacity for 1850 passengers, 250 cars and 75 lorries and offers excellent passenger facilities, including restaurants, shops and comfortable resting areas. The NORMAN SPIRIT flies the French flag and will be a welcome addition to the Dover-Dunkerque crossing until a more normal Channel ferry service has been re-established," says Peder Gellert Pedersen.

We expect that the NORMAN SPIRIT will be able to assume service on the Dunkerque-Dover route already the day after tomorrow, and we will provide more information about booking details and the schedule, as soon as possible,

For further information, please contact:

Gert Jakobsen, Vice President, DFDS Group, Communications:

+45 24 40 00 43_

Carl


----------



## bognormike

thanks Carl

I've amended the front page again for todays dated update

8)


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

dilly said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> missed this one on Wednesday
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15857694
> 
> surely it's still state aid, and even that is dependent on SNCF and the state putting in €10m as well, which is definitely state aid! :roll: I can't see that working.....
> 
> 
> 
> We helped bail out the bankers so I see no difference to French state aid being given to aid SF and maintain jobs.
> I know its against eu rulles but there are too many silly rules eminating from over the water imho.
> The upside would be that there is still competition in the market.
> 
> Dave p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I have to disagree about competion , sometimes competion is Not good, have you noticed how many shops have closed in the high street because of all the out of town supermarkets etc? in my opinion the crossings have been too cheap for too long, hence the probable demise of SF
Click to expand...

Surely it is competition that has kept fares low. Competition also gives rise to employment. Look at the larger economic picture.
Reduce the competition and the fares rise jobs disapear.
As for town centre shopping and markets. Doomed. Just full of charity shops, estate agents banks and building societies.

Dave p
Most retailers have units in the out of town centres / malls. anyway.


----------



## bognormike

competition is fine when everybody is competing on a level paying field. Sea France have been subsidised for years by SNCF who are in turn owned by the French Government. P&O and Norfolk Line / DFDS are parts of multi national companies, so have been able to some extent compete with SF on price. Now that SF can no longer be subsidised their successors will have to be competitive with the others - hopefully on that level paying field.....


----------



## dilly

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> missed this one on Wednesday
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15857694
> 
> surely it's still state aid, and even that is dependent on SNCF and the state putting in €10m as well, which is definitely state aid! :roll: I can't see that working.....
> 
> 
> 
> We helped bail out the bankers so I see no difference to French state aid being given to aid SF and maintain jobs.
> I know its against eu rulles but there are too many silly rules eminating from over the water imho.
> The upside would be that there is still competition in the market.
> 
> Dave p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I have to disagree about competion , sometimes competion is Not good, have you noticed how many shops have closed in the high street because of all the out of town supermarkets etc? in my opinion the crossings have been too cheap for too long, hence the probable demise of SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Surely it is competition that has kept fares low. Competition also gives rise to employment. Look at the larger economic picture.
> Reduce the competition and the fares rise jobs disapear.
> As for town centre shopping and markets. Doomed. Just full of charity shops, estate agents banks and building societies.
> 
> Dave p
> Most retailers have units in the out of town centres / malls. anyway.
Click to expand...

Its unfair competion thats puts people out of work.


----------



## GEMMY

The French are good at that! :roll: 

tony


----------



## moblee

This is part of a E-mail I received from P &O two days ago.......


We're currently the only ferry company operating to Calais, so you'll need to hurry to book your Christmas getaway because we're filling up fast!
And their prices look like they've gone up :!: 

Other than the Tunnel,it left me with the impression of "Pay up or stay at Home"

Competition is good, I.M.O.


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

*FURTHER UPDATE 28.11.11*

It appears that the CFDT Union has failed in its bid to get the courts to hand over the ships to the SCOP to get them running again..............

(sorry for the translation- Flo is in bed so Miss Google assisted...)

_LILLE - The mediator appointed in the case SeaFrance, whose traffic in the Channel has been interrupted since November 15, failed Monday to agree administrators and unions are calling for a resumption of crossings, it was learned from counsel them.

"There will not agree to mediation. Clarifications (by the directors, Ed) to what was considered unacceptable Friday make any agreement," said Mr Philip Brown, a lawyer for the CFDT, which proposes to take society through a workers' cooperative.
The agreement was, according to the Ministry of Transport, achieve a technical review of the four ships of the ferry operator between Dover and Calais by 12 December, when they could go back to sea
Management had decided to stop traffic on November 15. This decision, motivated by security concerns while some trade unionists threatened to sink ships, was renewed by the receivers after SeaFrance was placed in liquidation.

"This is a great disappointment, it was thought to be constructive on this issue, appease each other by showing that all had to turn to the workers' cooperative, or clearly that nobody cares," lamented Mr Brown .

The Commercial Court of Paris on November 16 gave the judicial liquidation of SeaFrance, a subsidiary of SNCF severely deficient, with activity continuing until January 28. New takeover bids may be submitted by December 12.

Ms. Brown had assigned administrators SeaFrance in chambers to demand the resumption of sailings. The judge of the court in Paris on November 22 appointed a mediator who had to find an amicable solution by December 2. If necessary, the judge planned to issue an order on the issue, December 6.
"We will prevent the judge from the failure of mediation to an injunction as soon as possible to put an end to attacks on freedom of labor, which is a constitutional principle," said the lawyer.
Much of the 880 permanent employees continue in effect to hold the ship, saying they are unjustly deprived of work.
"As it failed, we will ask the judge to reduce the time, it is useless to wait," added Ms. Brown.

"We are disappointed and disgusted to see that the destruction of SeaFrance continue", for his part, commented Didier Cappelle, Secretary General Maritime North. "That said, even if the mediation had been signed, it would not have arranged everything, there's always hope," he added.

"We will now take stock between good and bad news," he said, confirming that the former managing director of Brittany Ferries, Jean-Michel Giguet, had agreed to lead the Scop if it was born ._

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualites/1...diation-un-juge-tranchera_1055928.html?actu=1

Carl


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

Just to clarify in better English the latest situation regarding the SeaFrance saga........

*SeaFrance summit a failure, claims union*

_Stuart Todd | Tue, 29 Nov 2011http://www.ifw-net.com/freightpubs/ifw/sea/seafrance-summit-a-failure-claims-union/20017922021.htm

State parent won't inject finance into staff takeover bid, only funds for redundancy pay

Friday's summit meeting in Paris, to discuss the takeover bid for SeaFrance by a co-operative of its workers, ended with disappointment.

The summit was attended by France's Transport Minister, officials from SNCF and the Nord Pas de Calais regional council and the CFDT staff union.

Feedback from the meeting indicated that while SeaFrance's parent company, SNCF, was willing to offer the workers' co-op some technical help in mounting the bid, it was not in a position to offer finance.

It argued that this would contravene EU fair competition regulations.Ahead of the meeting, the CFDT had told IFW that the union was looking to SNCF and the state to pledge funding for the co-op's project, following promises of capital of €12-13 million from the Nord Pas de Calais council and municipal authorities in the region around the port.A spokesman for the CFDT union described the talks as "a failure", with "SNCF refusing to do anything at all".The co-operative requires between €25-30 million in start-up capital."SNCF is ready to put €53 million into a redundancy programme (for SeaFrance), but nothing for the workers' co-op bid. That says it all," added the union spokesman.While the search for a private investor to back the bid has so far been in vain, the CFDT appears to have found support from former MD of Brittany Ferries Jean-Michel Giguet, who could become a member of the co-op's management committee.

Meanwhile, an attempt to reach a meditation agreement between SeaFrance's judicial administrators and the union to allow a resumption in SeaFrance's services after 12 December, failed yesterday.

SeaFrance's four ferries have been in dock since on 15 November.A Paris court has set a deadline of 12 December for the submission of new bids for the company._

Unless the Unions come up with the money, or DFDS increase their bid, I really cannot see these ships sailing again......

...........just as the Government have approved Dover Harbour's plans for a 'Terminal 2' in the Western Docks!!!!! Cant see that THAT is needed at the moment.


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

*Update 4th December 2011*

_*Update 4th December 2011*_

Most of you are probably fed up with this saga by now and have made other plans / arrangements..........but, for fun, I will try and keep you all updated with the comedy that is playing out in Calais.

Over the past few days we have had a game of 'tit for tat' between the unions and management over the movement of a ferry (the Berloiz).
Calais port authorities want SF to shift some of their boats out of the harbour as they are blocking needed jetties for container ships. The SF management instructed the crew of the Berlioz to take her to Boulogne.....however, the CFDT responded by saying (effectively) that if the ships are not safe enough to sail on regular crossings to Dover, then they are not safe enough to sail to Boulogne!!!! As is the French way, the union official is backed by the law on this, and a safety committee will sit on Monday to decide of the ship is safe enough to travel to Boulogne..........

AND

In a further twist, as the deadline approaches for revised bids, it seems that the management of Brittany Ferries has had their arms twisted into possibly making a bid themselves. Now, if this was a genuine bid, why didnt they make an offer before? Most commentators think that pressure has been applied to Brittany Ferries (as a French company) to ensure that SF survives in some form, and that 'compensation' will head Brittany Ferries way.....

This sorry saga is not over yet!!!!

Carl


----------



## ThursdaysChild

Keep going, Carl - this is better than anything on TV.


----------



## rosalan

Ra! Ra! Brittany Ferries!

I was once on the "Renee Martine" from Brittany Ferries when it tried to sink after catching fire in mid channel, but I guess I would give them another go if they were cheap enough.

Vive`
Alan


----------



## Rapide561

*Sea France*

Carl

Do you know where the Sea France Nord pas de Calais has gone to? She was in Dover when we went on holiday but there was no sign of her o Saturday, unless she was hiding behind the huge P&O Spirit of what ever.

Russell


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

Hi Russell,
She was allowed to leave Dover last week after paying her harbour dues.

She has gone to lay-up in Dunkerque - in the quay last used by the Cezzanne (which has sailed on to the beach in India for scrapping).

Carl


----------



## cronkle

Carl has already answered but I thought this site might be of interest to some. It shows the ship in harbour - it still had its beacon on when I posted this.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/


----------



## andrewball1000

cronkle said:


> Carl has already answered but I thought this site might be of interest to some. It shows the ship in harbour - it still had its beacon on when I posted this.
> 
> http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/


what an excellent link, hours of fun. Thanks for posting


----------



## Carl_n_Flo

...............and you can see all the other SeaFrance ships laid up in Calais - going nowhere fast.

And following the commercial court judge's decision today, that is where they are going to stay.

He has stated that he does not have the legal power to enforce a resumption of service - that is a commercial decision.

As you can imagine, the unions are not at all happy!!!!

For those who are following the ships in the channel on AIS, keep an eye on the *Rodin*. The AIS signals not only broadcast the current positions of the ships but also their destinations. It seems that the crew of the *Rodin* have a sense of humour as, over the past few days, her AIS destination has been variously broadcast as Etaples (no harbour), Boogey Land and Far Far Away!!!!!

Good to see that the crew can smile through all this.....
Carl


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## clive1821

..... its a shame looks like i'm going to have to get my cash back for my carnet..... and go P&O  as i've mentioned it was fantastic just to be able to turn up and go... no booking at all !!


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## Stanner

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Good to see that the crew can smile through all this.....
> Carl


Was parked up last Wednesday waiting for (supposedly, according to the mirror hanger thingie :roll: ) the 17.15 P&O sailing, despite having checked in at 18.10 - looking straight at the Rodin.

Judging by the lights and movement on board they were having a right good party.


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## andrewball1000

clive1821 said:


> ..... its a shame looks like i'm going to have to get my cash back for my carnet..... and go P&O  as i've mentioned it was fantastic just to be able to turn up and go... no booking at all !!


Hi Clive, how I agree with you over the covenience of not having to pre book. I shall miss it very much. I rang them, gave them my refrence no and they have credit the unused balance straight to the card I used to buy them.

Very efficient right up to the end. What a shame for the staff and a loss to us.


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## Mrplodd

Carl

Any update as you seem to have your ear very close to what is going on?? (tried a Google search but nothing new!)

Wasn't today (12 Dec) the final date for any bid to purchase the company as a going concern? 

I for one will be sad to see SeaFrance go under, not the most modern of ships but cheap carnet tickets and no need to book was very handy.


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## bognormike

well the deadline has passed, and no new offers.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent_business/home/2011/december/13/seafrance_future_looks_choppy.aspx

it looks like DFDS are playing a waiting game to try & pick up the assets in a liquidation sale?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Steady on Mike :lol: 
I feel that the french government will find a way of keeping SF going.
They have national pride at stake here.
We may see a goverment "loan" by the back door to keep SF going, even though it may be against eu rules.

I feel sorry for the SF employees and am surprised that they have not mounted blockades at the ports which seems to be the french way.

i am confused as to how many employees there are at SF as some sites say as many as 1800 and others as few as 800.

However many, the loss of these jobs in Calais will be a disaster.
Dave p


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## GEMMY

I thought Brittany Ferries (backed by an illegal Sarcosy loan) were going to make a bid. :wink: 

tony


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## Carl_n_Flo

Afternoon all,

Sorry - been away from the computer all weekend so have not been able to update.

Well.........it seems the French transport minister invited the CFDT union to a meeting in Paris where, it was hoped, he could get the union to meet with representatives of DFDS on Saturday to discuss relationships should DFDS forward a revised offer.

The unions, in their infinite wisdom, declined the offer because they have made their mind up that Seafrance being run by the Danes was not in the best interests of the staff (?).

The reality is that they know that should DFDS take over, then the CFDT union would be banned from representing the workforce - those staff members at SF who would have a problem with the loss of this union would most likely receive their redundancy notice - there are plenty I think who would welcome it!!!

The upshot is that DFDS have declined to make an offer - the reason given being that they cannot rely on the relationship with the CFDT. In reality, they do net really need to take over SF. They can pick up the boats at the forthcoming fire sale for a good price and start their own service to Calais - and employ those ex-SF staff who agree not to be represented by the CFDT union.

The union stance in this fiasco has effectively killed Seafrance for good.

The SCOP (union) bid is some E35mil too short - as the Minister stated: he would normally expect the worker/members of a SCOP to have invested the money themselves, not gone cpa in hand to the local authorities, the government or SNCF to find the money. For this reason he is 'not encouraged' by the prospect of success for the SCOP bid.

This, I think, is the end-game now.

Keep an eye out in Exchange & Mart for adverts for 4 ferries, a few miles on the clock but recently sitting gathering dust.

Any takers?

Carl


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## Grizzly

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Keep an eye out in Exchange & Mart for adverts for 4 ferries, a few miles on the clock but recently sitting gathering dust.
> 
> Any takers?


Would we get a substantial discount on _ Outdoorbits Ferries _ ?

G


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## bognormike

subs may need to go up to cover that, G!


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## DTPCHEMICALS

bognormike said:


> subs may need to go up to cover that, G!


Subs go down Mike :lol: :lol: 
Dave p


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## Grizzly

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> subs may need to go up to cover that, G!
> 
> 
> 
> Subs go down Mike :lol: :lol:
> Dave p
Click to expand...


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## Carl_n_Flo

Hi all,

According to the French local rag 'Nord Littoral', the CFDT are so confident that their bid will be accepted that they have rented a suitable building to be the new Seafrance HQ............

Just about sums up the whole saga for me................
C

http://www.nordlittoral.fr/actualit...dfds_jette_l_eponge_la_scop_reste_seule.shtml


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## nicholsong

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> bognormike said:
> 
> 
> 
> subs may need to go up to cover that, G!
> 
> 
> 
> Subs go down Mike :lol: :lol:
> Dave p
Click to expand...

But they have to come up, eventually, to survive.

[Please do not let Nuke read this until 2015]

Geoff


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## Carl_n_Flo

New AIS destination for the Rodin:

..........."Neverland".........

I dont even think Peter Pan can save them now.........
C


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## DTPCHEMICALS

December 14
A WORKERS cooperative is the only offer on the table for troubled cross-Channel ferry firm SeaFrance and its future looks gloomy as the proposal is still tens of millions short of the money needed.

Its ferries have been tied up at Calais since the middle of November after a commercial tribunal in Paris rejected rival buy-out plans by the workers' cooperative and a consortium of DFDS Seaways and LD Lines.

DFDS has withdrawn its offer after facing hostility from unions - more than 400 jobs would go in France - but the consortium said in a statement it would "continue to monitor the situation". Last week the CFDT union, the main backers of the cooperative, are said to have boycotted a meeting with DFDS in Paris.

DFDS boss Niels Smedegaard had previously told La Voix du Nord that only his company could save SeaFrance and he dismissed the workers' co-operative bid as a "mirage".

If the Paris tribunal rejects the workers' offer SeaFrance will close, perhaps as soon as Monday when the tribunal has called a new meeting.

French Transport Minister Thierry Mariani has said: "Frankly, I'm not optimistic."

Union secretary Didier Cappelle said money was coming in. He told La Voix du Nord "Little by little the funding moves on" he said, with €10 million from the regional council, €1m from Calais, plus funds from neighbouring communes and the departmental council it totals about €15m. This is about e40m short of what parent company SNCF says is needed to run SeaFrance each year.

Its four ferries carried 3.5 million passengers a year between Dover and Calais and it employs 850 staff in the UK and France. It went into administration after making €240 million losses last year.

The company says its website www.seafrance.com will be updated with the latest news but passengers can call the helpline on +44 (0) 845 458 0666.

Dave p


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## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 14.12.11*

_There's a new article in the online edition of Nord Littoral saying that the SCOP bid has been inacceptable for lack of funding and a proper business plan and that the administrators appointed by the commercial court have asked the court to order the cessation of all activities. _

http://www.nordlittoral.fr/actualite/la_une/2011/12/14/article_la_cfdt_seafrance_si_pres_d_ubu.shtml

From a source on doverferryforums.co.uk..........

This seems to be the end............
Carl


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sad day for all concerned.
I will have to us tunnel in future. Better view of the fish. 8) 

Dave p


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## AdriaWin

From Kent Online
_*
A financial lifeline has been thrown to troubled ferry operator SeaFrance - just days after a deadline for offers to buy it passed.

A French court had set December 12 for the submission of bids to save the company.

But the deadline passed, and it seemed inevitable it would be wound up by the end of January with the loss of 700 jobs in France and more than 100 in Dover.

Now, with its ships grounded for several weeks, the union has stepped forward with a bid to buy the international firm.

The French courts will consider the options for the company at a hearing on Monday, with a decision expected up to a week later.

French business consultant Thaddee Segard had said just days ago: "The final liquidation of SeaFrance is no longer in doubt."

DFDS/LD Lines announced earlier this week it would not be submitting a new bid after its earlier one was rejected by a French court as too low.

The consortium had hoped to file a revised offer and held extensive talks with the parties involved. But it ran up against union opposition to its plans to slash jobs.

Wednesday, December 14 2011 *_


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Unions, the great defenders of jobs.

Dave p


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## GEMMY

They are No1 on my list in my little book when the time comes, Bob Crow leading the rest of the anarchists. :twisted: 

tony


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## greygit

GEMMY said:


> They are No1 on my list in my little book when the time comes, Bob Crow leading the rest of the anarchists. :twisted:
> 
> tony[/quote
> 
> Here we go usual Knee jerk reaction.
> Gary :roll:


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## bognormike

can we keep it relevant to the subject please, ie don't go {offtopic}


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## GEMMY

Sorry comrade! It's no knee jerk, It's been poised since 1963. :twisted: 

tony


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## Stanner

GEMMY said:


> Sorry comrade! It's no knee jerk, It's been poised since 1963. :twisted:
> 
> tony


Your reactions must be slower than your thought processes then. :roll:


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## GEMMY

Shows not a hair trigger with the mouth comrade

tony


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## rosalan

Sea France

Epitaph..... Goodbye, goodbye we wish you all a fond Go-ood bye!

I wonder how the Unions will talk up their success in these matters.
Alan


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## bognormike

ahem.....

I'll only say it one more time


:evil: 

{offtopic}


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## DTPCHEMICALS

You tell em mike .

Dave p :wink:


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## bognormike

I'll tell you as well! :lol: :lol:


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## rosalan

Bognormike keeps interrupting... what was this thread about? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sorry I have forgot. i have answered the phone and have to go do a delivery instaed of finishing my end of year books. :roll: 

Ah now I remember.

Something to do with Channel Tunnel promotion.

Dave p


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## bognormike

is there any more news on this apart from Sarkozy's apparennt intervention noted on another thread? 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1178921.html#1178921


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## Carl_n_Flo

*Sea France - Update 9th January 2012*

Hi all - sorry for the silence over the past couple of weeks but we have been very remote over Christmas and New Year and completely 'computer-less' so............

*Happy New Year to you all*...........except if you work for Seafrance then...........I am very sorry....

Today, the Judge in the commercial court has finally climbed down off the fence and declared Seafrance bankrupt / insolvent / had it / _*DEAD*_!!!!!

Currently at work at the moment so will gather further details in an hour or two and post - and they are interesting involving corruption, mafia practices, a dissatisfied workforce and the 11th hour 'bid' from Eurotunnel to take over the Company :lol: :lol: .

That last has to be the joke of the day..........I will elaborate more later...........

pip pip
Carl


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## duxdeluxe

Yep, just been on BBC news not the Maily Dale so it must be true...... :wink:


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## ThursdaysChild

Yep, the BBC did it again.

" Seafrance operated 3 routes between Dover and Calais ".

Where do they get their reporters from ?


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## GEMMY

It's from the BBC, must be true, :roll: :lol: :wink: 

tony


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## Hymervanman

Link is here gents- interesting if Eurotunnel buy up the assets....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16469300


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## MrsW

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh dear, the beeb have excelled themselves this time!


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## bognormike

thanks Carl; there could have only been one result. Shame for all the people working there.

Now the liquidators will be looking to a sale of the ships, presumably LD/ DFDS will come up with an offer? There is capacity for another carrier, but not at silly prices, so fares WILL rise. :idea:


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## GEMMY

For anyone who just wants to press a button :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16469300

tony


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## Hymervanman

If Eurotunnel buy the assets at least the ferries may become cheaper and more competitive for motorhomes and they will adapt the same strategy as they do with the trains where you are not penalised for height and/or length.....
l


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## Carl_n_Flo

Most likely that Eurotunnel want a ferry or two to take the hazchem cargos that they cannot transport through the tunnel due to the fires and increased insurances.

I doubt very much that they are interested in pax traffic.

Eurotunnel have lost a vast amount of business to the ferries due to the fires - freight is king in the cross channel trade, both above and below the water. the passenger side is very much secondary these days.

Carl


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## Carl_n_Flo

*Can they not hear the fat lady singing????*

From France's 'Nord Littoral' paper:

*Sarkozy: "I do not give up and I will not accept a kind of inevitability"*

_Nicolas Sarkozy, who is in Berlin (rescuing the other sick creature in Europe, the Euro with 'my Angie') has "taken note" of the decision of the Paris Commercial Court's order to liquidation the ferry company SeaFrance but assured that "there will be a credible solution (...) For all (880) employees "of the company.
"I think I can say that there will be a credible solution, at least that's on what we work for all employees of SeaFrance," promised Mr. Sarkozy during a press conference in Berlin in following a lunch with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
"I have taken note of the decision that was made to liquidation of the company (...) I think I can tell you that tomorrow, Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet and Thierry Mariani (the ministers in charge) will receive employee representatives and the liquidator of the company to make a number of proposals, "he said.
The Head of State cited two proposals, the workers' cooperative (SCOP), "that is to say that the employees of SeaFrance reinvest their severance payments to ensure the continuation of the company" and "a partner who can make proposals for recovery. "
"There are two proposals on the table, we will work to support them," insisted Nicolas Sarkozy, also recalling that the SNCF, the shareholder of SeaFrance, announced a "commitment" to take on the employees of the company.
"I do not give up and I will not accept a kind of fate. I believe there is a discussion possible, in any case the government is determined to make every effort to ensure this," at he concluded._

This can only be Sarkozy electioneering. The majority of the 800 workforce do not want to invest their redundancy monies (between 50,000 and 80,000 Euro!!!) in a Union led co-op to run the company. Only 250 have agreed, which is nowhere near enough money to run the business.

The 'other bid' (Eurotunnel) has come about, I believe, through arm twisting by the French transport minister. Eurotunnel are a largely French company with the trains operated by SNCF.......the parent company of Seafrance.

Coincidence or what?
Carl


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## thieawin

SeaFrance was never well run at the best of times, and the crews were not the best. They helped themselves rather than the passengers. Their attitude to passengers was awful, and they did not look after the ships.

" SeaFrance is alleged to have fallen under the control of a rogue trade union branch, which obstructed a possible sell-off to push its own plan for a workers' co-operative.

A criminal investigation was launched last year into suspected systematic fraud aboard SeaFrance ships, including the theft of up to €5m a year in alcohol, perfume and cigarettes. There have been anonymous threats of violence to dissident union members, leaders of other unions and local journalists.

The national and regional leadership of the moderate French trade union federation, the CFDT, took the unusual step last week of repudiating its SeaFrance branch, the CFDT Maritime Nord. The union federation published a letter in which it threatened to exclude local leaders if "the suspicions of obscure and fraudulent practices" were true.

These "obscure practices" are said to have included the assumption of hiring rights at SeaFrance by local union leaders who gave preference to family and friends. Unqualified members of a local amateur football team, AS Marck, are reported to have been employed aboard the ferries. The president and coach of the team were senior officials of CFDT Maritime Nord. "

Source: http://www.independe...ng-6287017.html


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## dilly

Good Riddance


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## peedee

thieawin said:


> SeaFrance was never well run at the best of times, and the crews were not the best. They helped themselves rather than the passengers. Their attitude to passengers was awful, and they did not look after the ships.


Absolutely agree, only ever travelled with them twice. Gave them the benefit of the doubt the first time but not the second time. It will now definitely be never again :lol:

peedee


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## DTPCHEMICALS

We prefered SF over PO

Dave p


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## peejay

We've used Seafrance a few times and had no problems with them, unlike P&O and Norfolkline as was. The MHF discount was also a bonus.

A shame to see them go in my opinion.










Pete


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## clive1821

I have to say I do prefer P&O but have used sea france this last year with their carnet tickets... it was very good and I have only just renewed the carnet 4 days before them closeing.... we just got back and the next day they closed.... rang them this afternoon and the girl was very helpful and I have got the money back they owed.... so all credit to them..... much better than a lot of companies going bust over here, with no chance of getting your cash back.... so its back to p&o for the time being.... feel very sorry for the staff at dover who have always been very helpful....


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## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE 12.01.12*

Good morning all,

Following the liquidation of Seafrance yesterday, DFDS have released a press statement outlining their intentions:

_DFDS A/S
Investor News_

*DFDS and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs planning to start new route on Dover - Calais*

_Yesterday the commercial court of Paris decided to liquidate SeaFrance, which operated a route between Dover and Calais, with immediate effect. DFDS and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs formed a joint venture in 2011 that bid to acquire certain assets of SeaFrance, but the bid was rejected by the commercial court of Paris in December 2011.
As previously stated, the underlying industrial logic of DFDS' and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs' joint venture has remained intact throughout the process. Furthermore, our joint venture is still in a unique position to create a number of sustainable French jobs, including the deployment of French flagged ships.
We can, therefore, confirm that we have continued to pursue opportunities to establish a new route between Dover and Calais. Our intention is to operate two ships under the French flag to be manned with French seafarers. To open a new route, and provide an attractive service for customers, we aim to hire about 300 staff and expect to be able to start the recruitment process soon.
The new route would be operated by vessels currently owned by the joint venture or vessels available on the market.
More detailed information will follow as soon as possible.
Contact Persons:

Niels Smedegaard, CEO
+45 3342 3400
Torben Carlsen, CFO
+45 3342 3201
Søren Brøndholdt Nielsen, IR
+45 3342 3359 _

It seems that competition for P&O on the short sea crossing will eventually continue so maybe prices will not climb as steeply as some may be fearing.

Carl


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## goldi

Morning all,

I held out as long as I could because I had the third trip of the carnet left but yesterday afternoon I had to conceed that the ball was finally over the wall and asked for my money back which they did to their credit.


norm


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## Carl_n_Flo

*Goodbye Seafrance - Hello DFDS & LD Lines....*

Well, Seafrance are no more, and will not be coming back in any way, shape or form.

It will take many months for the liquidator to sort out the mess that has been left behind, and he has to sell the ships to raise the money to pay the debts.

Both Eurotunnel and P&O have expressed an interest in buying two of the four boats, but this will take time.

In the meantime, DFDS and LD Lines are pressing ahead with setting up their own Dover to Calais service using vessels from within their own fleet............

This from a DFDS press release today:

_DFDS is putting Senior Vice President Carsten Jensen in charge of building and expanding a new business in the English Channel. DFDS will, together with its French partner LDA open a new route between Dover and Calais.

"With the expansion of our activities on the Channel, we have a unique opportunity to create a positive development both for business and for employees, both current and new," says Peder Gellert Pedersen, director of DFDS Shipping Division.

Carsten Jensen has since 2008 spearheaded BU Passenger that includes DFDS longer routes - Oslo-Copenhagen, Newcastle-Ijmuiden and Esbjerg-Harwich.

DFDS has a current route in the Channel. Vice President Brian Thorsted Hansen is named new director of BU Passenger, so Carsten Jensen can concentrate on building the new ferry route between Dover and Calais.

The changes taking place with immediate effect.

The plan is to deploy two ships under the French flag and manned by French sailors on the new ferry route. Tonnage on the route will be owned by a new joint venture between partners or consist of chartered tonnage.

Source: DFDS_

Ideally, we need a third (fourth?) operator on the channel to keep fares for us (tourists) low, however those fares have been proven to be unsustainable from a business perspective so expect prices to rise over this summer..........

It has been said that tourist traffic on the Dover - Dunkerque route has been 'paid for' by the volume of freight traffic using the route.

Carl


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## GEMMY

Latest?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-channel-ferries-from-sea-france-6297332.html

tony


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## Zebedee

Altruism Tony??

I somehow think not! :roll: 

I wonder what this will mean in practical terms? There will be something worthwhile in it for the Chunnel operators - that's for sure!

Dave


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## GEMMY

I smell a little Sarcosy hand is up someone doing a puppet master . :wink: 

tony


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## Zebedee

At least he's small enough so it wouldn't be too painful Tony!! :lol: :lol: 

I can't immediately see what Eurotunnel has to gain by buying three ships and leasing them back, unless it's a crafty way of effectively gaining control of SF??

Dave


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## GEMMY

What they must not do is to take over the staff will all the inherrent problems of that union. Far better to allow leasing and control the lessee
than let PO and Brittany buy them. :wink: 

tony


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Will they retain the brand Sea France or Funnel :lol: 
Maybe it will keep the oposition from racking up fares.

Dave p


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## GEMMY

Dave , they would love the opposition to rack up fares, it makes themselves look cheaper. 8) :wink: 

tony


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## teemyob

*Funnel*



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Will they retain the brand Sea France or Funnel :lol:
> Maybe it will keep the oposition from racking up fares.
> 
> Dave p


I like that

"The Channel Funnel"

TM


----------

