# Why Gas Heating?



## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Just been reflecting on motorhome heating.

The question in my mind is why do motorhome manufacturers fit gas (/electric) heating?

Two immediate answers spring to mind:

1. They are basically caravan manufacturers and they know and understand gas heating (diesel heating, I assume, makes no sense in a caravan)

2. It is cheaper than diesel/electric heating and it keeps the base price down.

Both the camper vans we have owned have has diesel/electric heating which seems to be very economical to run (can't really tell the difference in mpg, to be honest), and with diesel being available in the same form throughout the world is ideal for international motorhoming. 

Gas heating means having to have gas bottles that are refillable/exchangeable in each country you visit.

With our underfloor gas tank (which really only needs filling once a year) I really hate using the lpg pumps in the UK - fortunately have not had to refill in another country where you have to fit an adapter.

I sometimes wish we had opted for the 'no gas' option on our Murvi, with a diesel cooker and a compressor fridge.


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## commuter (Jul 13, 2011)

"diesel cooker"

does this not make the food taste


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

commuter said:


> "diesel cooker"
> 
> does this not make the food taste


Seriously, I'm sure it doesn't.

But we had exactly that thought, and probably one the reason they are not more widespread; prejudice. The other reason is they are far more expensive to buy and are effectively a single burner with a place to keep another pan warm.

Ideal for wild camping and adventures in out-of-the-way countries, though.

Webasto diesel cooker


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Diesel cookers arne't as quick as they are sort of sealed and make hot plates (like electric) rather than instant gas flame.

as for compressor fridge, there are quite clear drawbacks - you will need hefty batteries, big solar, or live on campsites. Gas is the most efficient way.

We have small gaslow which makes the gas problem cheaper and easier. I'd happily keep gas for hob/fridge. 

But agree entirely with diesel heating. (We have gas - diesel was an expensive option)


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

ActiveCampers said:


> as for compressor fridge, there are quite clear drawbacks - you will need hefty batteries, big solar, or live on campsites. Gas is the most efficient way.


Having lived with a compressor fridge for a few years in our previous camper van, running from a 95 AH battery and no solar. People say they are noisy, but in a small camper van you sleep only inches from the fridge and it never bothered us.

I would be very happy to go back to one. We do have 220 AH batteries and a big solar panel, on this van.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree on diesel heating, it's far better I think and as you say I barely notice the diesel it uses.

As to diesel cookers a friend of ours had one in his boat and we all thought it quite poor compared to a gas cooker, Alan.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Diesel heaters are VERY noisey !!!

I have a couple of friends each of which has diesel heating. When parked up alongside if their heating fires up its like a bloody small jet plane taking off   

Yes it quietens down after a while but the initial "whine" is very loud :roll: :roll:


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> Diesel heaters are VERY noisey !!!


Some obviously are. I have heard some myself walking around campsites.

The two Webastos we have had have not been. Inside or out.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



erneboy said:


> I agree on diesel heating, it's far better I think and as you say I barely notice the diesel it uses.


True. But you will certainly notice the charge it draws from your leisure battery.

Diesel heaters still consume at least double the amount of electricity than gas heaters of comparable rating.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## WiltonShagpile (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi,

We had a van bought second hand with diesel heating and had no end of problems with it. If left running any length of time it drained the leasure battery and wouldn't start again until the battery had been charged again. It needed about 12.3 volts before it would start. We had it serviced with no noticeable increase in efficiency. With gas, 2 pen lite batteries and your a click away from warm. 

In the end we sold the van and bought with gas applianceses. We have Gaslow fitted which makes it far cheaper than diesel heating. There was an artical in I think MMM magazine couple of years ago and there conclusion was gas was 1/3 cheaper to purchase and gives more heat per ltr than diesel.

As a foot note we have friends with an Autocruse which has a diesel heater. They have bought an electric oil radiator to leave on through the night, so have to hook up. We can just run the gas and it's cheaper than hook up over a week on site including cooking and fridge. They also dress to go to bed. We turn the gas to low and runs all night, cosy!!.

Having had both gas and diesel I know which I prefer. Gas.

All the best Wilt


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Im going to ask some dumb questions now.

How can a diesel heater be cheaper to run than a gas heater? Do they use less diesel for the equivelent amount of heat than LPG. All I know is that the last LPG I purchased was 75p a litre but the last Litre of diesel I bought was £1.45

Why do they use battery power? (Gas and Diesel). When my fire (gas) is on in our Kontiki it doesnt use the battery at all?

Sorry if this is obvious to most but I need to know these things.

EDIT: To the OP. How big is your gas tank if it lasts a year? I can use a 11KG bottle in a week in winter.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Gas*

We have

Gas/Electric/Diesel / Engine Heat heating!

Just in-case.

TM


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

barryd said:


> Why do they use battery power? (Gas and Diesel).


A Diesel heater always needs battery power, at least for fuel pump and ignition.

A gas heater does not require a fuel pump, and the ignition can be done manually (Piezo ignition), so there are gas heaters which are independent of battery power. However, most modern gas heaters have two fans: One for supplying air to the burner, the other to distribute warm air inside the van.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for the info. So that's one more thing to worry about on a modern van, the fire using battery power.


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## mikebeaches (Oct 18, 2008)

We have a diesel heater in our current van and I must say, I'm impressed. It does appear to be reasonably economical on fuel, though I haven't done any specific tests. Yes, a bit noisy while getting warmed up, but it certainly keeps the van toasty.

I guess the down side is the battery power required to run it. We haven't had a problem, but just conscious of the current draw. Our van doesn't have any extra batteries or solar panels, and we got on fine in the snow and high winds in the Highlands before Easter. However, we were on the move every day, so plenty of charge to keep the battery topped-up.

But like barryd mentioned, I don't understand the reason modern vans don't seem to have the option to use a standard gas convection heater, without the blown-air turned on - and hence no electric power required.

When we had caravans we never had anything as posh as 'blown-air', but the gas heater worked OK. Then back in 2009 we were using a Moveo motorhome and it had a fixed gas fire, but with the option to turn on the blown-air if required. Struck me as a good system - you could choose whether to blow the heat around or not.

I suppose with 'blown-air' only, there is less/no space required in the living area - it's all installed out of sight within the fitted furniture and just the outlets for the warm air to circulate. Nonetheless, a retrograde step in my view.

By the way, I'm no expert and perhaps more expensive vans do have the option of space heating with or without blown-air?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mike

If I understand correctly what you mean by ' a standard gas covection heater' the reasons are probably that then one is burning the gas inside the MH, whereas a blown air system, vented to the outside by a balanced flu, is in effect burning the gas 'outside'.

Apart from the gas using up oxygen in a mainly sealed space, unless you keep a window open, gas also produces a lot of water vapour, which would create condensation and possible damp problems - look at the flu vents outside a blown-air boiler in cold weather and you will see the exiting water vapour condensing.

Geoff


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## mikebeaches (Oct 18, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Mike
> 
> If I understand correctly what you mean by ' a standard gas covection heater' the reasons are probably that then one is burning the gas inside the MH, whereas a blown air system, vented to the outside by a balanced flu, is in effect burning the gas 'outside'.
> 
> ...


Hi Geoff

Thanks for your note, but no - I wasn't meaning the VERY old style that burnt openly within the van. I think for at leat 25 years - maybe longer - regulations have required the combustion in caravan and motorhome gas heaters to be sealed from the interior, and vented 100% externally.

Certainly, our last caravan - built circa 1991, and which we kept for over ten years - was completely sealed. And in fact, the van before that too.

Mike


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mike

Sorry, the old type is what I have on my boat, but that is 34 years old and the hatches and vents allow some ventilation so problem is not so great.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Good grief. So not only can I not find a new van with enough payload to take a scooter but now the blown air has to be on each time I put the fire on. Im completely anal about battery power and I would rather shiver than think of all those amps being used up for no reason.  

To be honest we never use our blown air. I dont see the point of it really. The carver fire in the centre of the van (and its a big interior living space) heats the whole van to T Shirt wearing level in 20 min even at sub zero.

At this rate we will be keeping Hank the Tank until the wheels fall off (actually they did once in 2010).

My biggest worry though is spare parts. A year or so ago the burner unit went on our fire and according to the misserable little man in Darlington who fixed it I probably got the last one in the country.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Personally I think the Alde wet system is the most efficient, which consists of finned pipework running around the perimeter of the living area, working similar to a domestic radiator system.
It gives an even heat all round, and is powered by gas or electric.

We have diesel heating, and generally happy with it. One of the main issues with the heater is it uses a glow-plug for ignition, which takes a lot of power for a few seconds, and we have found that converters have sometimes under-sized the wiring supply to the heater, causing excessive voltage drop to the glow-plug, which will not operate below 10.5 volts.

Most installed heating systems are now fan assisted, or in the case of Alde, pumped, requiring some 12v power.

We had the Alde system in a caravan 12+ years ago, and loved it.


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## MrWez (Sep 25, 2011)

mikebeaches said:


> But like barryd mentioned, I don't understand the reason modern vans don't seem to have the option to use a standard gas convection heater, without the blown-air turned on - and hence no electric power required.
> 
> By the way, I'm no expert and perhaps more expensive vans do have the option of space heating with or without blown-air?


Our 2011 Tribute T-620 certainly gives us the option of gas heating with or without blown air, in fact we used it in this mode earlier this month whilst out in the New Forest on a frosty night - it certainly kept us toasty, roasted more like and that was on a very low setting without blower.

MrWez


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

barryd said:



> Im going to ask some dumb questions now.
> 
> How can a diesel heater be cheaper to run than a gas heater? Do they use less diesel for the equivelent amount of heat than LPG. All I know is that the last LPG I purchased was 75p a litre but the last Litre of diesel I bought was £1.45
> 
> ...


Our gas tank is 9.5kg, we seem to use about less than 4kg a year. Roughly double that for litres of gas at the pump. See this thread:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-89471-.html

We are averaging about 40 nights away with about a 15 off hook up per year since we've had the Murvi. We cook in a lot.

Our heater uses 100ml (1/10 of a litre) of diesel per KwHr, it uses about 15 amps when running, which is maybe 10-15 minutes an hour keeping the temperature at about 22 degrees C on the thermostat with it around zero outside. It probably takes about 20 minutes max to get up to temperature from being stood all day while we've been out in March or October. (The van is tucked away Nov -Feb).

Yes our van is small compared to many, but I reckon doesn't probably have the insulation of many coachbuilts or A Classes.

People here with experience of earlier generation diesel heaters? I think its like comparing 1960s diesel Peugeot with a modern Audi turbo diesel. Modern diesel heaters are virtually silent and very economical.

Have a look here (fabulous graphics of how a Webasto heater works and lots of facts)

http://motorhome.webasto.co.uk/heating/dual-top.html


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