# Build quality



## averhamdave

Went to Brownhills today (Newark) - mainly because it was raining and we were at home. (I live three miles away from them).

We will change our motorhome next year so are looking round really as prospective buyers, although won't be buying from them, sorry.

Anyway, despite being once bitten by Swift quality, I have listened to the claims made on here about improvement and I have been impressed with the involvement on this forum by their MD and other senior members of staff. I admit to again considering their products for purchase.

Today we looked at a few of their motorhomes, tried to persuade ourselves that they may be as good as Autotrail and settled on fancying the Bessacar E765P (I think that was the number).

Now this is a £50k plus motorhome. There were wires hanging out of the dashboard, the status ariel booster was hanging loose by its cables in its cupboard, The sliding blind that partitions the sleeping area off was broken (come apart) but was unsable anyway by poor design - the gap between the bed and kitchen unit is insufficient to allow it to traverse accross. Useless. The tall, narrow sliding kitchen cupboard was leaning within its housing, it wasn't loose, just never been fitted correctly, the plastic skirts are not fitted flush to the bodywork, there are gaps in places, there are differing sealing materials used including plastic strips (loose) and mastic (poorly applied). There was a large piece of the skirt trim actually missing. Gaps around locker doors internal) varied and so on. There were other things wrong which I have forgotton.

Why did Swift permit such an example to leave their factory, why haven't Brownhills put these things right?

My wife doesn't read this forum and is ignorant of the general view of poor quality from Swift (other than having listened to me for the last 8 years!). I offered that these things could be easily rectified, she said, "There's no way we are buying anything of such poor build quality".

Swift need to understand that senior executives calming disguntled customers down is important and creditable but for crying out loud get someone on your despatch quality control who actually gives a damn!


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## 113016

averhamdave said:


> Went to Brownhills today (Newark) - mainly because it was raining and we were at home. (I live three miles away from them).
> 
> We will change our motorhome next year so are looking round really as prospective buyers, although won't be buying from them, sorry.
> 
> Anyway, despite being once bitten by Swift quality, I have listened to the claims made on here about improvement and I have been impressed with the involvement on this forum by their MD and other senior members of staff. I admit to again considering their products for purchase.
> 
> Today we looked at a few of their motorhomes, tried to persuade ourselves that they may be as good as Autotrail and settled on fancying the Bessacar E765P (I think that was the number).
> 
> Now this is a £50k plus motorhome. There were wires hanging out of the dashboard, the status ariel booster was hanging loose by its cables in its cupboard, The sliding blind that partitions the sleeping area off was broken (come apart) but was unsable anyway by poor design - the gap between the bed and kitchen unit is insufficient to allow it to traverse accross. Useless. The tall, narrow sliding kitchen cupboard was leaning within its housing, it wasn't loose, just never been fitted correctly, the plastic skirts are not fitted flush to the bodywork, there are gaps in places, there are differing sealing materials used including plastic strips (loose) and mastic (poorly applied). There was a large piece of the skirt trim actually missing. Gaps around locker doors internal) varied and so on. There were other things wrong which I have forgotton.
> 
> Why did Swift permit such an example to leave their factory, why haven't Brownhills put these things right?
> 
> My wife doesn't read this forum and is ignorant of the general view of poor quality from Swift (other than having listened to me for the last 8 years!). I offered that these things could be easily rectified, she said, "There's no way we are buying anything of such poor build quality".
> 
> Swift need to understand that senior executives calming disguntled customers down is important and creditable but for crying out loud get someone on your despatch quality control who actually gives a damn!


Why buy British when you can buy several quality German built vans.
I must admit that I have never purchased a foreign car, but I would only buy a German motorhome


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## philoaks

We've just signed up for a new Swift Bolero so, as yet, have no experience of their customer service. However in their defence, we looked at two Boleros in our nearest dealership. One was a "demonstrator" and like the one that you looked at had numerous faults/damage, but it had been hawked around several shows with everyman and his dog pulling it about. The other (the one we've signed for) was straight out of the factory and other than one small issue with a bit of trim was faultless (I spent around 2 hours going through it)! The salesman admitted that the demo did have a number of faults which would all be corrected for its new owner. They have major problems at shows with bits and pieces being stolen from display vans and people unaware of how locks and fixtures work forcing doors and damaging them in the process. Hopefully I won't have to eat my words, but from what I've seen, Swift is no better and no worse than many other manufacturers.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Hi,

The presentation of a MH on a forecourt is entirely the Dealers responsiblity, that is what he gets paid a PDI inspection for apart from having a pride in his stock.

You will NOT find this sort of presentation on my forecourt. 

None of mine are hawked around shows as demo's and are properly inspected before they are put on show.

Peter


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## Compact

*Quality*

Over the years we have owned two new caravans and two new motorhomes, all have had problems, my golden rule now is to buy from a dealer not too far away as we will be doing with our third motorhome.


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## 113016

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Hi,
> 
> The presentation of a MH on a forecourt is entirely the Dealers responsiblity, that is what he gets paid a PDI inspection for apart from having a pride in his stock.
> 
> You will NOT find this sort of presentation on my forecourt.
> 
> None of mine are hawked around shows as demo's and are properly inspected before they are put on show.
> 
> Peter


I must admit peter that I am a pro German M/H fan, however should I ever consider a UK built M/H, I would certainly look your company up as you appear to care and talk to customers


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## Jeffus

*Swift motorhomes*

Hi all,

Having just collected a new Bessacarr E795 from Marquis, Hampshire the problem I have with continental vans is the cooking facilities are usually rubbish with no proper oven (if any) no grill and no microwave, hobs have 3 gas (if your lucky). The seating I have come across is usually like sitting on planks. With UK vans they are usually very comfortable and ours has full cooking with 3 gas+1 lecky hob. The other thing is fixed bed sindrome having said that the UK market IS also obsessed with it but at least you can have none fixed bed models.

Jeffus.


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## averhamdave

I would wish to make quite clear that the faults described were not as a result of customer abuse (with the possible exception of the damaged sliding screen - which couldn't work anyway!)

Even if it is the responsibility of the dealer to PDI and repair, why are such things leaving the factory? Why, when I visit Brownhills is it more or less only the Swifts that are in such condition?

I genuinely felt that a Swift was worth looking at again. Autotrail are good but the 10, still as yet unrepaired stress fractures on mine have put me off a bit. Someone else has posted negatively about Burstner, or did at the time I fancied one of them. Hymers are a safe bet aren't they, but boy aren't they boring!

Peter (John Cross), do you attend shows? Will you be at Pickering?


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## 113016

*Re: Swift motorhomes*



Jeffus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Having just collected a new Bessacarr E795 from Marquis, Hampshire the problem I have with continental vans is the cooking facilities are usually rubbish with no proper oven (if any) no grill and no microwave, hobs have 3 gas (if your lucky). The seating I have come across is usually like sitting on planks. With UK vans they are usually very comfortable and ours has full cooking with 3 gas+1 lecky hob. The other thing is fixed bed sindrome having said that the UK market IS also obsessed with it but at least you can have none fixed bed models.
> 
> Jeffus.


 Our Hymer Tramp has an oven, grill and ok only 2 burners, but it has a full size fridge and a shower that you can actually use without any fear  
We have a fixed bed, and that was one of the reasons why we got it and the build quality is second to none.
That is all my opinion and that is what makes us all different and individuals  
As long as you like your m/h and enjoy yourself, then that is all what matters.
BY the way, we do carry a microwave and have only used it twice


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## Briarose

*Re: Swift motorhomes*



Grath said:


> Jeffus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Having just collected a new Bessacarr E795 from Marquis, Hampshire the problem I have with continental vans is the cooking facilities are usually rubbish with no proper oven (if any) no grill and no microwave, hobs have 3 gas (if your lucky). The seating I have come across is usually like sitting on planks. With UK vans they are usually very comfortable and ours has full cooking with 3 gas+1 lecky hob. The other thing is fixed bed sindrome having said that the UK market IS also obsessed with it but at least you can have none fixed bed models.
> 
> Jeffus.
> 
> 
> 
> Our Hymer Tramp has an oven, grill and ok only 2 burners, but it has a full size fridge and a shower that you can actually use without any fear
> We have a fixed bed, and that was one of the reasons why we got it and the build quality is second to none.
> That is all my opinion and that is what makes us all different and individuals
> As long as you like your m/h and enjoy yourself, then that is all what matters.
> BY the way, we do carry a microwave and have only used it twice
Click to expand...

 I agree if we were all the same we would all have the same house, the same car, the same MH etc etc and boy how crowded the one site that we all liked to visit would be packed LOL

On a serious note if you are happy with what you have got thats the main thing..............we love our Swift.


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## rogerandsandra

We took delivery of our 'brand new' autotrail Chieftain G in April 2007.

3 days later the leisure batteries failed and had to be replaced (faulty batch at factory) 
6 days later I sent a letter to Autotrail and the dealer with 12 faults and included pictures (all should have been picked up at the factory and on dealer PDI). It took 3 months, 4 days lost holiday and a change in dealer to get them put right. 
We developed another fault in June 2007. (fresh water tank syphoning out) We eventually got it fixed a year later (June 2008)after 3 attempts by the dealer (on one ocaision they ripped through the wiring loom 8O) and 2 visits back to the factory - 450 mile round trip for us. 

Buy new - never again.

Autorail - never again.

Sandra


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## 100127

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Hi,
> 
> The presentation of a MH on a forecourt is entirely the Dealers responsiblity, that is what he gets paid a PDI inspection for apart from having a pride in his stock.
> 
> You will NOT find this sort of presentation on my forecourt.
> 
> None of mine are hawked around shows as demo's and are properly inspected before they are put on show.
> 
> Peter


I quite agree with that. I went to your showroom 2 weeks ago and found..............wait for it..........Excellent. In fact are booking in my Burstner for habitational check next year. Nearly £100 cheaper than the Dealer I bought it from. In fact I would have had it done in December, but was advised by your goodselves that as it was the last manufacturers warranty check, best get it done where it was bought, in case of a serious problem that you could not do under a Burstner warranty.
We'll be back
Bob


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## Wytonknaus

I share your view about the condition of new Swift vehicles from the dealers. Our 2008 swift van needed 40 hours of work at the Swift factory to put right the faults from delivery which should never have left the factory in the first place. There are still some things which need looking at which Swift could not put right with the Fiat side of the motorhome and other problems which have since become apparent.

There will be a number of posters who will come on here in the next few days sticking up for Swift saying how they will be buying a Swift next time round due to Kath and Peter coming on this forum and sorting out the problems owners have, this however does not alleviate the disappointment felt by the likes of us who have bought a motorhome which should never have left the factory in anything other than perfect condition. How would you feel if aircraft manufacturers operated on the same principles of faults being sorted at the customers request??? You certainly would not want to live near an airport.

Surely it would be cheaper to have Swift trained tradesmen doing a final check before the motorhomes leave the factory than expecting dealers to sort the problems when the vans have been transported the length and breadth of the country. I hope the vans destined for Europe leave the factory in perfect condition as the sales of Swift motorhomes abroad will be a short lived experience otherwise.

With the problems which the Fiat base vehicles are showing with regard to reversing judder/clutch problems it does leave owners like us in a position where they are concerned for the future value of these vehicles when the time comes to part ex or sell on. 

I would not buy a Swift again as if I did not chase at every stage getting the many faults fixed, our van would still be unusable - all this for just under £60k. The design of the Swift range is really impressive but the build quality does not match up to this, I hope they change in the immediate future, one of the arguments I have heard is that motorhomes are a hand built item which does give some problems for production, this is never an excuse, if it is not possible to build a quality product then change the design to allow this to happen.

I do realise that it is difficult to produce goods at an attractive price and maintain the output to make a profit in such commercially competitive times but we would rather have paid more to have the motorhome of our dreams usable from day one than to have the worry of getting the faults corrected after purchase.


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## 111900

Hi Sandra
Next time buy a Rimor had ours for over 4 years never had a problem  Are you still having problems. Before we had our motorhome we had a swift caravan who then took over Abbey and that van after three years was full of damp

Rhoda


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

averhamdave said:


> I would wish to make quite clear that the faults described were not as a result of customer abuse (with the possible exception of the damaged sliding screen - which couldn't work anyway!)
> 
> Even if it is the responsibility of the dealer to PDI and repair, why are such things leaving the factory? Why, when I visit Brownhills is it more or less only the Swifts that are in such condition?
> 
> I genuinely felt that a Swift was worth looking at again. Autotrail are good but the 10, still as yet unrepaired stress fractures on mine have put me off a bit. Someone else has posted negatively about Burstner, or did at the time I fancied one of them. Hymers are a safe bet aren't they, but boy aren't they boring!
> 
> Peter (John Cross), do you attend shows? Will you be at Pickering?


Hi,

Sliding screens work on our Swifts, they might be a bit flimsy but thats the nature of the design, you cannot really fit a door!

Wires hanging out of dashboards....... etc, cannot really comment on that, apart from the fact that they don't come from Swift like that.

Yes we will be at Pickering running the Fiamma Stand , but no MH's as I said before, we don't trundle our's around the countryside
.
If you buy a new MH from me, it is new and unused.

Regards

Peter


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## averhamdave

Peter, I think it was an E695P but may be wrong. Fixed bed on left rear.

The sliding screen (which isn't a problem at all) could not be pulled rght accross because there was insufficient gap between the end of the bed and the kitchen unit. The steel end of the screen had been pulled right off as someone had tried to force it in the too small gap I suspect.

Anyway is there a Swift equivalent to this Bessacar? We prefer the Swift colouring and woodwork to the Bessacar. Its on an Alco, do you know offhand what its payload is?

I travelled a long way to buy this motorhome and could well do the same with the next!


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

averhamdave said:


> Peter, I think it was an E695P but may be wrong. Fixed bed on left rear.
> Anyway is there a Swift equivalent to this Bessacar? We prefer the Swift colouring and woodwork to the Bessacar. Its on an Alco, do you know offhand what its payload is?
> I travelled a long way to buy this motorhome and could well do the same with the next!


Hi,

Best thing to do is talk to the experts Lawrence, David or Mark.

Regards

Peter


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## gdleeds

*eply to Jeffus*

Hi Jeffus, 
just to let you know we have a German Burstner 820 with a full gas oven, that Fiona recently cooked a superb leg of lamb in, stuffed with garlic, excellent, without any garlic smell whilst cooking...

much better than the Autotrail we used to have.
Shop around and look, Europe understands what UK buyers want in today's market.


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## oldenstar

Just a word for the French here. (Never ever thought I'd say that!)

Our Mooveo is the budget Pilote range, yet we find the build quality to be excellent-absolutely no issues to date.

UK versions from Hayes have a small oven and grille, which with the 3 burner hob we find to be adequate, so no worries on the cooking front.

Yes it has a fixed bed, chosen because we wanted one, and the only reason manufacturers are building them like that is because there is a big market out there for them. Note all the Adria Twin clones in the Van Conversion market.

Paul


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## Jeffus

*Swift motorhomes*



RMS said:


> Hi Sandra
> Next time buy a Rimor had ours for over 4 years never had a problem  Are you still having problems. Before we had our motorhome we had a swift caravan who then took over Abbey and that van after three years was full of damp
> 
> Rhoda


Hi all,

The reason we ordered another Bessacarr E795 this time round is because our "old" E795 was four years old and she gave us four years of faultless service all over the UK and Europe. We fulltime so obviously she has to be built well, and she is. The built quality is fabulous, I've lost count of how many tugger (mostly) have come in for a coffee and said how solid the van is. So far (we have only had the new 795 from last Monday) the new is going to be just as good. Yes there are a few teething problems but there are with any new vehicle by there nature a modern motorhome is quite a complex beast. Marquis has everything under control and are helpfully sorting things out nicely. To be fair most of the teething probs were related to auxillary equipment we had fitted, solar panels, etc.

BTW Grath we use our microwave every single day. We would be lost without it. Porridge in the morning and greens are a lot better done in a microwave (keeps all the goodness in ) instead of boiling all the goodness out in a pan.

Bee Gud, Jeffus.


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## Jeffus

*Re: eply to gdleeds*



gdleeds said:


> Hi Jeffus,
> just to let you know we have a German Burstner 820 with a full gas oven, that Fiona recently cooked a superb leg of lamb in, stuffed with garlic, excellent, without any garlic smell whilst cooking...
> 
> much better than the Autotrail we used to have.
> Shop around and look, Europe understands what UK buyers want in today's market.


Hi gd,

Really glad you love your Bustner, they are a really good make of motorhome, good choice. Can we come round next time Fiona does a leg of lamb? Sounds fantastic. Shame about not being able to smell the garlic though (love garlic).

Seriously though and I don't want to kick of big slagging match here with Rapido owners. I have a mate who swears by his new Rapido and loves it to bits, it's a coachbuilt. We were sat out recently in France with a glass and putting the world to right and basking in sunshine. When this A class Rapido with french plates parked up on the pitch next to us. Sez me to the Boss, that looks nice. Quarter of an hour later and still admiring said Rap and this guy stuck his head round the foliage and said "Turned out nice again" in broad Northern twang. No, it wasn't George Formby, it was a guy who lives in France from Lancashire. I was just admiring your motorhome I remarked. Heap of crap was his reply. Then when on to list some of the faults in all he said he has counted 55 faults. He walked me round the van pointing faults left right and centre. I must admit it was bad. The thing that I noticed (and the point of my ramble) is no cooking facilities. Big fridge yes, two burner hob and what passed as a cooker as big as our microwave and was located over head hight and of course a fixed bed. Big French court case coming up 'cause he wants his money back. The van is less than a year old. Point I'm making that obviously not all Rapidos are like this he was just unlucky the got a Friday night/Monday morning van. It could happen to any one of us with any make of van UK or European. Food for thought.

Jeffus.


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## SwiftGroup

*Display*

averhamdave

The vehicle on Brownhills forecourt has been with them for quite a while any may indeed be looking a little tired. I cannot comment on how the dealer is displaying the motorhome but I do know that we have made a lot of changes in terms of quality in the design and production of our vehicles since this one was built.

I can assure you that our presence on here is not just to placate disgruntled customers but to ensure we take the feedback into our organisation and improve the product.

Perhaps you would like to come and look at our vans at the NEC you will see the changes we have made and the vehicles will be properly presented.

Regards
Kath


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## 109835

*Still on 'Holiday'?*

Has anyone else, apart from me, noticed the lack of response from Swift in recent weeks? I know it's the holiday season for them but all my latest emails - be they to Kath, Amy, Lynsey, crm or [email protected] seem to fall into a black hole with promises of action but no progress.

I've been waiting for a replacement reversing camera since delivery in May and now have a list of items requiring to be dealt with under warranty (some of which are being picked up by the local Peugeot dealer this next week) but the list is growing faster than the remedial work!

Come on Swift/Autocruise - I'm starting to disbelieve what others are saying about your after sales support - please prove me wrong! Please see your Customer Service Ref # 386323 for further info.

Barry


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

We have just sold this MH and it has been with us now since April 2007, some 17 months on site and its as fresh as a daisy, no excuse for scruffy stock apart from lazyness.

It was just waiting for the right person to come along.

Peter


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## oldenstar

Peter, it is a great pity you are not more centrally positioned in the UK, rather than damn near falling off the edge! :wink:


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## rrusty

*Re: Still on 'Holiday'?*

I've been waiting for a replacement reversing camera since delivery in

Hi Barry, What kind of problem are you having with your reversing camera ?

I am not very pleased with mine it shows everything the wrong way round (been told that this can not be altered)and also looks very far away & small, also the monitor could be a bit bigger.

rrusty


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## 116388

On Sunday evening I started a thread along these lines having just been to my local MH dealer and was unimpressed.

And the posts on here of disgruntled MH owners proves across the board that some dealers don't care and some manufacturers are worthless.

There is nothing more depressing than stepping into nothing more than a £50k delivery van that resembles IKEA inside. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

I shall buy a new or nearly new MH before the end of this year but I am lost as to who I can trust with aftercare and which MHs are of sound quality. Afterall I will be living fulltime in my MH and if it is showing signs of wear and tear in the showroom that doesn't look promising.

Shane.....


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## timbop37

We have a "budget" van in a Compass Avantgarde 100, bought new Nov '07. It was immaculate then and still is now, even after 11000 miles. We have not had one fault with it whatsoever, apart from a minor water ingress into the engine, which was a base vehicle issue. Even that was insignificant, and put right by our local Peugeot dealer within the first two weeks.

My point is that it doesn't matter how much you spend, there will be faults on some vans and not on others. The forum is awash with tales of woe. However, you will rarely see a member posting that their van has no faults. It is just not within the realms of human nature.

There does seem to be a concensus that German build quality is much superior, and I dare say, it is. However, it is at a premium and we are happy with our van.


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## 109835

*Autocruise reversing cameras*

Hi rrusty,

Have dropped you a PM on this. We do seem to have the same problem...

Barry


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## hilldweller

Simplelife said:


> There is nothing more depressing than stepping into nothing more than a £50k delivery van that resembles IKEA inside. Cheap, cheap, cheap.


You'd better get used to the idea. Just look at the complexity of what you are buying.

If you want a quality kitchen Mark Wilkinson will charge you double that. On top of that you get a bathroom, living room and bedroom.

There is also The Big Problem, it's got to weigh nothing otherwise you are into bigger chassis and possible drivers licence tests.

Be prepared to compromise.


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## Spacerunner

*Re: Still on 'Holiday'?*



rrusty said:


> I've been waiting for a replacement reversing camera since delivery in
> 
> Hi Barry, What kind of problem are you having with your reversing camera ?
> 
> I am not very pleased with mine it shows everything the wrong way round (been told that this can not be altered)and also looks very far away & small, also the monitor could be a bit bigger.
> 
> rrusty


Mmmmm......Specsavers?......... :lol:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

oldenstar said:


> Peter, it is a great pity you are not more centrally positioned in the UK, rather than damn near falling off the edge! :wink:


Lol you can talk.... Devons on near enough the same latitude as Sussex, come EAST young man! :lol:

Peter


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## rrusty

Hi Barry,

You have a pm

rrusty


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## geraldandannie

timbop37 said:


> There does seem to be a concensus that German build quality is much superior, and I dare say, it is. However, it is at a premium and we are happy with our van.


I do wonder, sometimes, if this is a case of the emperor's new clothes. I've looked at lots and lots of vans, and I really can't think that I've ever come to this conclusion. There's good and bad everywhere. I was reading recently about a number of faults in a Niesmann & Bischoff & Niesmann. I have just been reading the sad tale about a Burstner Elegance in :: this post ::

_Our vehicle, which has been a great disappointment since day one, has a large no. of faults with it rendering it basically unfit for purpose. Indeed, for the majority of time we have owned it, it has been in said condition. Repairs have either not been carried out, or not been carried out properly, *and the quality of the vehicle is such that systems and parts consistently fail. Of this lately issue, we realise that Burstner are responsible.* _

I love our motorhome (French), and apart from the well-known Fiat issues, we have had no problems with it. Everything worked when we picked it up, and everything still works on it, some 4,000 miles and nearly 12 months later. I'm sure there are British motorhome owners who can say the same thing.

I suppose my question is: how is the quality better on a German motorhome? They use pretty much the same equipment as many others (Truma, Smev, Dometic, etc etc), they use foam seating, like many others, they seem to use the same woody stuff (whatever it is) as others, so where is the 'quality'?

P.S. I'm not trying to be provocative, nor dismissive.

Gerald


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## Rapide561

*Quality*

Hello

Tim - I too had a Compass Avantgarde and it was, for the price, a good, sound van. Everything worked etc and the only niggle was a leak from the water filler into the boiler.

Gerald - I do not know about German vans, are they better or worse than their British counter parts? I have been using a 5 year old Burstner for the last month, prior to collecting my new van. The Burstner was tip top for it's age, but had only 14,000 miles on. This suggests little use. Many of the components were common to many vans - a Smev sink and Smev oven, Thetford loo, Dometic fridge etc.

My last van was less than one year old when I sold it and had 11,000 miles on, plus had been in daily use with me for 10 months. On the hab side, everything was OK, and the van was serviced prior to sale. It would be fair to say, using your van as an example Gerald, that your one year old van with 4000 miles on the clock, should - based on the numbers game - probably in better condition than a van I have hammered for 10 months and used daily.

I gave very serious consideration to other vans prior to choosing my new Swift 679. The vans on the list were the Burstner 747 Argos, Dethleffs A7871-2, Lunar 900 and offerings from Autotrail.

In recent weeks I have seen vans with "wires hanging out of the dash" and this was simply where the radio etc had been removed - presumably to ensure no light fingered soul helped themselves. I can fully understand this.

I shall write a "live in review" of my Swift after I have owned the van for a few months, and have covered a couple of thousand miles.

Furthermore, Jenny liked the Kon-tiki - so who am I to argue!

Russell


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## loddy

when you pay peanuts to people to assemble motorhomes you get monkeys

loddy


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## geraldandannie

*Re: Quality*



Rapide561 said:


> It would be fair to say, using your van as an example Gerald, that your one year old van with 4000 miles on the clock, should - based on the numbers game - probably in better condition than a van I have hammered for 10 months and used daily.


Hi Russell

I agree, although I do read surprisingly often about "a few teething troubles, nothing to worry about" and "we expected some problems - well, it is a complicated vehicle". I do wonder whether I'm not seeing things that other people do. My query was with the (oft-repeated) comment about the higher quality of German motorhomes. Are they _really_ any better than UK-built motorhomes, and if so, how? I'm intrigued.

Gerald


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## averhamdave

Thanks for the reply Kath/Swift. I am going to look at Swift again at Pickering. Don't think we will make the NEC. Thanks also Peter at JCM for your PM.


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## Wytonknaus

I can comment on the German quality V's British as the first time out in our new Knaus Sun Ti last year the table closing mechanism fell to bits the rear trim at the back corner cracked and was flapping about in the wind as I pulled of the M6. 

The seat cushions required replacing on a Van which was less than a year old as they did not retain their shape after our 12 year old lightweight son sat on them for journeys. 

The oven did not have adequate insulation so after cooking the Christmas dinner in France we could barely touch the cuttlery from the drawer above it was too hot.

So it is not just UK built vans, I just think we are unlucky!!!

Tim


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## Rapide561

*Quality*

Evening Gerald and all

I suppose, what one person's teething trouble is, could be a disaster for someone else.

Reading the post above re the table, probably would not matter too much in the scheme of things, but had the owner been planning a "soiree" with snacks etc, then the perception changes.

Russell


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## geraldandannie

*Re: Quality*



Rapide561 said:


> I suppose, what one person's teething trouble is, could be a disaster for someone else.


Hi Russ

I think this is probably the crux of the issue. In the same way as we fall in love with, or immediately reject, one design of van, then perhaps different people will look at the same interior, and some would say "brilliant" and some "shoddy".

I still don't know how people can make sweeping statements like "German vans are of better quality than British vans". :?

Gerald


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## Briarose

> I love our motorhome (French), and apart from the well-known Fiat issues, we have had no problems with it. Everything worked when we picked it up, and everything still works on it, some 4,000 miles and nearly 12 months later. I'm sure there are British motorhome owners who can say the same thing.


 Hi pretty much the same her Gerald, 5,500 on the clock and nearly a year old.

Been to Portugal and back and several trips in this country 'some short and some longer trips' yes there have been a few slight niggles, but nothing serious and for us the biggest bonus has been that any little problem we have had Swift have actually sorted it out....................well you can't say fairer than that can you ? as I say nothing serious anyway fingers crossed as they say.


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## timbop37

*Re: Quality*



geraldandannie said:


> [I still don't know how people can make sweeping statements like "German vans are of better quality than British vans". :?


I don't have any experience of German vans myself but there seems to be enough members on MHF willing to tell us of their superior build.

Perhaps it's a myth, like the Mac V Windows debate. :wink:


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## SwiftGroup

*Response*

Baznjan

We are not responding to emails as quickly as we would like at the moment. We are now dealing with your email.

Regards
Kath


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## SwiftGroup

*Camera*

Rrusty

We are not aware of a problem with your reversing camera, we have nothing on record.

We have tried to call you today and left a message

Regards
Kath


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## rrusty

*Re: Camera*



SwiftGroup said:


> Rrusty
> 
> We are not aware of a problem with your reversing camera, we have nothing on record.
> 
> We have tried to call you today and left a message
> 
> Regards
> Kath


Kath, I tried the return the call a few times but the phone just rang out, I shall pm you a day No

rrusty


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## 116388

hilldweller said:


> Simplelife said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing more depressing than stepping into nothing more than a £50k delivery van that resembles IKEA inside. Cheap, cheap, cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd better get used to the idea. Just look at the complexity of what you are buying.
> 
> If you want a quality kitchen Mark Wilkinson will charge you double that. On top of that you get a bathroom, living room and bedroom.
> 
> There is also The Big Problem, it's got to weigh nothing otherwise you are into bigger chassis and possible drivers licence tests.
> 
> Be prepared to compromise.
Click to expand...

Hello Brian,

Undoubtably you are right. Is Mark Wilkinson a builder of MH kitchens or house kitchens? Thanks.

Shane.....


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## Jeffus

*Re: Quality*



timbop37 said:


> geraldandannie said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I still don't know how people can make sweeping statements like "German vans are of better quality than British vans". :?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have any experience of German vans myself but there seems to be enough members on MHF willing to tell us of their superior build.
> 
> Perhaps it's a myth, like the Mac V Windows debate. :wink:
Click to expand...

Timbop, I noted the wink but this one ain't a myth Macs ARE superior to PCs.

On the build quality issue I don't think there is any difference in ANY make of van UK or foreign, I think you either get a good one or a Friday night job. I've seen good and bad in both. As an aside line I was coming up the M5 yesterday in our new Bessacarr E795 and thought I'll try the cab air con. Oh no!!! It didn't work, not something else that has to be fixed on these crappy UK vans (joke). I have just e-mailed Paul (service manager) at Marquis, Hampshire, within 10 minutes he was on the phone back to me with "that's a Fiat problem, you'll have to find a Fiat agent BUT before you do try putting the fan on first". Sure enough for the air con to work the fan has to be switched on first. Thanks again Paul at Marquis for your rapid response yet again. See what I mean, I sometime think a lot of "our" niggly problems are down to use not understanding how things are supposed to work.

Jeffus.


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## hilldweller

Simplelife said:


> Hello Brian,
> Undoubtably you are right. Is Mark Wilkinson a builder of MH kitchens or house kitchens? Shane.....


If www.mwf.com did a motohome then it would have to be based on those low loaders they carry train engines on. Nothing but the best solid timber and only oilfield owners need apply.

I may be half right, I don't now how much weight the big American RVs can take though they a have a "disposable" instinct so I don't know how long they intend them to last.


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## maggielou

In fairness to the dealers who do trundle their MH's to the various shows, without them we would have no shows and would never get the opportunity to enjoy looking at and comparing so many vans in just a couple of days. Plus all the enjoyment that goes with a MH show.

These traders have to pay seriously large amounts to purchase a stand, plus the expense of getting their vans to and from the show. Their staff have to paid to look after the stand at the show and they also have to deal with the careless, disrespectful and sometimes dishonesty of some of the puplic viewing the MH's

Personally I would like to thank the traders who make these shows possible for us.

Thank you Maggie


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## averhamdave

Hold on everyone, put the rose tinted specs away please.

The thing I looked round at Brownhills was dropping to bits. It may be well trodden in but it was still displaying a Swift/Bessacar to a potential customer (me).

How can you compare not knowing how to work your air-con with a van that has the myriad of design, buid and presentation faults that I listed on this thing?

Thank dealers for taking motorhomes to shows? Are you crackers? They pay a fortune to hire stands because in their judgement the return will be greater than the investment. Nothing to do with giving you and I something to look around! When judging those costs, Brownhills (and others) should maybe allow a little more for cleaning and repairing when the thing gets back to base.

Swift say they are getting better. They probably are as you couldn't have got any worse. They say the Bessacar I looked at had been there for a while (old model?). If so why aren't they re-calling it to change the sliding screen design to make it work?

If I had bought that van, is it right that I should have possibly not discovered that fault until I go home, and then been without the van for a period of time until it was (somehow) fixed? That's not a Brownhills issue, its a Swift issue! Gaps between body skirts and the body itself are a Swift issue, nothing to do with PDI.

The van, which in principal we like a lot, costs over £50,000 for goodness sake. Stop making excuses for these people!

And yes, I am angry, Im sick of people coming on here knocking Fiat base vehicles, including those that run Transits and the like, when the bigger problem is with UK manufacturers and some dealers. I am sure Kath and Peter are wonderful people but why does that 2008 Bessacar look like a pile of junk and what assurances can I have that the one I buy wont look the same a year down the road?

Rant over, sorry if I have offended.


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## maggielou

Hi Dave,

I was not suggesting that the traders put on the MH shows for the public.

Of course their returns are greater than their outlay and of course a percentage of their returns should be offset against the cost of bringing the Mh's back to as new condition after the shows.

But I for one would be devastated if these shows did not take place.

What I find difficult to understand is, considering your findings and comments regarding Swift why do you still want to buy a swift. :roll: :roll: 

Just wondered I have nothing to do with Swift. I have an A/S Devon
which I think is the bees knees. :lol: 

I hope you get the van of your choice in faultless condition but looking at the horror stories on these forums, don't hold your breath.

In this respect I am in complete agreement with you.

Good luck

maggie


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## Kelcat

I've read this post with a fair amount of accusation & back & forth in it - and as a complete outsider (never been to Brownhills, don't own a swift & MH not based on a fiat) - it seems like people are using a post titled "Build Quality" to make some fairly sweeping statements - a road that other posts on MHF have also previously travelled.
My understanding is;
The Swift MH viewed at Newark had been on their site for a while - surely no longer the responsibility of Swift Group? That Brownhills choose to display a vehicle that is is such a state - & how it got into that state cannot be proved - allows the viewer to make a judgement of Brownhills - having read this post I'm still unsure as to wether or not a view of Swift's build qulaity could come to mind. I know that people trapse in & out of these vans, dealers let staff 'borrow' them - I even know one local dealer who now keeps all the vans locked & you have to be escorted round them - simply 'cos of what people do to them.
The Fiat problem seems fairly well documented, on MHF, on other forums & in the press - if I was buying I'd definitly think twice about them.
Swift's response to issues (all over this forum) makes me think 2 things - 1 they seem to have an MD & staff who care, 2 - they recognise & are using are very effective route to market. Their responses (can't speak for their actions) have seemed prompt & helpful. As an outsider I can merge this information with other postings and form my own view - on the whole quite positive I'd say.
I think that this post should either be retitled - or the Mod's should move it - at present it seems unfair to the parties envolved and not an accurate reflection of the events in the original post.


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## Biglol

*Re: Quality*

""
Perhaps it's a myth, like the Mac V Windows debate. ""

Sorry, I couldn't let this one go by, Mac v who, I don't see a contest.

Biglol


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

averhamdave said:


> I am sure Kath and Peter are wonderful people but why does that 2008 Bessacar look like a pile of junk and what assurances can I have that the one I buy wont look the same a year down the road?


Hi,

Dead easy answer, you will look after it and take a *pride* in it unlike others who let it get into that state!

Peter


----------



## 112265

Hi,

I felt the need to respond to the comments regarding the build quality, I purchased a Swift Bolero new a year ago from a main dealer based nr Manchester and to be completely honest from the day I collected the Motorhome I felt like crying in that my dream purchase turned into a nightmare with a list of serious faults. I blame the dealer for not correcting the faults at the PDI stage but also agree that Swift should not have let the Motorhome leave their factory with so many issues for the dealer to solve, rather than listing the issues I have copied a posting I made a few months ago when I was rather upset with both Swift and the dealer. I have to say once the motorhome was returned to Swift the problems were sorted correctly, I would recommend a Swift to anybody as its a great Motorhome provided you are very careful not to take your new motorhome away until all issues have been dealt with. The next time I buy a new motorhome I will snag the vehicle and have all concerns corrected before handing the cash over, once you take the motorhome the problems become yours.

I think Swift should vet their dealers to ensure high standards are maintained, including training for technicians as some of our problems had numerous repair attempts, they should realise that £37K (in our case) is a serious amount of money and customers should be treated with respect in that their goods should be perfect at collection. Hope this helps,

Good luck and best regards, John

*Previous listing on Swift Bolero Faults *

hi, thought i could share some useful tips regarding problems with the swift bolero. i've got a 630PR model, purchased new in September 07. from the off, i had problems with the door which would not shut (a known fault, and my door and frame were replaced under warranty), lights coming on of their own accord, total electrical failure to habitation area (due to faulty relay/fuse board) and a flat leisure battery within a week! main tip - pester the dealer you bought it from, until they resolve the problem, even if it means the van has to go back to swift. i did and eventually (some 6 months later) i am now a very happy owner of a fab motorhome, less the problems, with a very large cheque from dealer for compensation in my bank - that said, they did have my van for a total of 16 weeks out of 24, ignored letters and i eventually had to issue Court proceedings against the dealer in order to get any kind of response. 
ps - remember, your money did what it was supposed to do - so should the van!!!


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## oldenstar

On the way back to Devon today we called in to Chelston to get a few accessories. Naturally had a wander round their vans, including one of my favourite 'I wants', a brand new Autotrail Dakota.

This van ticks all the boxes for us though regrettably out of reach at the moment, new at least.

Generally the van seemed beautifully finished but the washroom door would not shut. It was more than a simple adjustment too-in my view we are looking at removing some wood to get it to close.

I share the amazement of previous posters here-this van was on at in excess of £56k, yet one of the key areas (everyone looks at the washroom don't they?) was on display like this. I just find it surprising that Chelston, who I generally feel are a good company, don't remedy things like this before showing the van.
Paul


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