# Continental Law that could work here



## Hampshireman (Apr 18, 2007)

HGV's banned from lane 2 on 3 lane m/ways.

Certain stretches of m/ways with either a long slow incline could be designated as no goes for HGVs as on la continent.

Watching traffic monitors around Southampton every morning, it is evident that one of the reasons for the slow stretch northbound from jct 14 to 11 is the long dips and climbs, plus two major intersections. using the road myself at various times, the problem always seem to be HGV drivers thinking they are Stirling Moss because they have a light load or a bit more Oomph. Quite often it can be two Brits or Romanian/ Hungarian/ Polish/ Spanish etc truck side by side churning up a hill.

It could work in many other places across the UK too.


----------



## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

Hampshireman said:


> HGV's banned from lane 2 on 3 lane m/ways.
> 
> Certain stretches of m/ways with either a long slow incline could be designated as no goes for HGVs as on la continent.
> 
> ...


biggest problem i see is hgv,s overtaking other hgv,s when there,s only 1/2 bhp between the two, sat behind 2 for 5 miles few weeks back in m/h causes all sorts chaos as everyone dives into outside lane, there could be certain sections on motorways where overtaking is permitted for hgv,s, ie down hill


----------



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Derek

yes, it's a problem on a busy motorway when a truck that's limited to 56mph tries to overtake another truck that's travelling at 55mph - it can take miles, even if it's on the level :roll: 

I seem to remember when travelling on the Autostrada around Venice a few years back that trucks were not allowed in anything other than the inside lane. Unfortunately there was such a huge queue of trucks that it was virtually impossible to get into the inside lane to get off at junctions :roll:


----------



## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

But that means they could all be stuck behind someone like me who might be slowed to 40mph by a long incline. It would certainly make me feel uncomfortable having a long line of angry HGVs behind me.

JohnW


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I feel a bit sorry for the Truckies who have to put up with congested UK motorway conditions day in day out. Plus, some have to deliver goods to supermarkets within fixed time slots - if they miss their slot they can be turned away or face a long wait. It must be very stressful.

Let them use lane 2 if they need to! It won't make that much difference to our journey times.

I would prefer to see more crawler lanes or 4th lanes for overtaking constructed on long motorway gradients. One good example is the 4th lane on the M4 Eastbound approaching Junction 18. 

SD


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Wizzo said:


> But that means they could all be stuck behind someone like me who might be slowed to 40mph by a long incline. It would certainly make me feel uncomfortable having a long line of angry HGVs behind me.
> 
> JohnW


Well if you are slowed by UK motorway inclines then perhaps you should pull off. That sounds like an underpowered vehicle to me.


----------



## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

On the A14 towards peterborough, on certain parts of the dual carriageway, uphill sections lorries are not allowed in outside lane, worked like a charm, less accidents, less queues.

A lot of the time, the drivers of the HGV just want to get past the next lorry, they sit there in the middle lane for a good few miles, before they can get fully past, the time that they gain is negligible over the period of the day.


----------



## Hymer1942 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Ex HGV*

As an ex HGV who spent over 20 yrs in Europe I prabably understand the problem better than most. Several years ago HGVs were limited to 100kms an hour about 62mph this was fine not all drivers wanted to do 62, but we had the speed to overtake if we wanted. Then in came 90kms bringing with it the problem that we have today. Hope that helps. Barrie


----------



## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

Just stopping trucks overtaking on long inclines is a fix that works elsewhere, we could consider narrower lanes across the motorway making it 4 lanes wide with a reduced hard shoulder area in that section with signal gantries that reflect the true situation to warn drivers, minimum speed limits of 60mph for all vehicles not in inner 2 lanes.


The middle lane owners club are the major cause of regular delays on all motorways, one trip we were behind a MH for over 50 miles coming through Belgium to the tunnel, the driver exercised good lane manners on foreign roads, we got out of the tunnel onto the motorway and he went straight to middle lane and stayed there at 50-55mph, he did move over occasionally for 44 ton of steel, but moved straight back out after, I doubt he is a MHF person as we would never do that, or would we :roll: 
Any owners of that elite club care to enlighten us non believers, then we can drive like prats :roll: 

Chris


----------



## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Good morning ladies and gentlmen,
What is clearly required is 4 extra lanes , 2 to each side of existing, be bold.



norm


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

This would be a good rule but only for short stretches as in France where they use slow/crawler lanes to very good effect. 
I have often cursed the side by side HGV's but more annoying is the middle lane driver. 
Most of them don't have a clue what is going on around them and sit there in their own world. 
I very often have to travel the A1 in Lincolnshire and Notts at speeds in excess of 120mph. 
You would not believe sometime how long you spend sat behind a driver blue lights, headlamps flashing and wailers going and they just sit there at their own speed in their own world mile after mile. 
Often the nearside lane ends up pulling back to allow an undertake of the car stuck in the overtaking lane, not a maneuver I like doing. 
James


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that it is legal to continue on the inside lane if clear ahead, when the lane to your right is obstructed by a slower moving vehicle, ( subject to prevailing speed limits ).
After passing on the inside of the obstruction, you may continue in the inside lane and pass other vehicles further down the road which are also in the inside lane, if the lane to your right is clear. If you see what I mean.
A maneuver I have always employed and shall continue to do so.


Pete 8)


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

apxc15 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that it is legal to continue on the inside lane if clear ahead, when the lane to your right is obstructed by a slower moving vehicle, ( subject to prevailing speed limits ).
> After passing on the inside of the obstruction, you may continue in the inside lane and pass other vehicles further down the road which are also in the inside lane, if the lane to your right is clear. If you see what I mean.
> A maneuver I have always employed and shall continue to do so.
> 
> Pete 8)


Not in this country (unless other lane is stationary and then only with extreme caution)


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

sallytrafic said:


> apxc15 said:
> 
> 
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that it is legal to continue on the inside lane if clear ahead, when the lane to your right is obstructed by a slower moving vehicle, ( subject to prevailing speed limits ).
> ...


"stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"

This is a quote from the Highway Code. In my view a slow moving vehicle obstructing the right hand lane constitutes the front and rear of a queue.

Pete 8)


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

apxc15 said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> > apxc15 said:
> ...


clearly an unusual interpretation of a 'queue'


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> Not in this country (unless other lane is stationary and then only with extreme caution)


Spot on, unless of course you drive an Audi or BMW and have left your brains at home to allow more room for your ego.


----------



## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Hampshireman said:


> HGV's banned from lane 2 on 3 lane m/ways.
> 
> Certain stretches of m/ways with either a long slow incline could be designated as no goes for HGVs as on la continent.
> 
> ...


Brilliant having lived much of my working life in Germany I can only say it works well.

What also works well is long stretches of autobahn with no overtaking for HGV's etc


----------



## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

I think I have to disagree here a little. :wink: 

I do not blame the truckers at all for getting from A - B in the best time possible whilst doing their job as efficiently as possible. We seem to complain on motorways when we are slowed down in our progress to nowhere important because on the whole we think that we have a divine right to drive faster than the vehicle in front of us! Not the case i am afraid. 

The trucks are not doing anything illegal, just not want we want. I do not think it matters what the hold up is as you could be doing 70 in the "fast " overtaking lane and you will always have someone who want to go faster than you. 

The entire laws on motorway driving need looking at because most of the time it is just a free for all out there. Undertaking, middle lane hoggers, caravans, Motor homes and those who think they have to stay in the fast lane until the last moment before dashing across the lanes and cutting up everything in their path to exit. this alone causes so much of the hold ups on our roads because of the braking and concertina ripple effect for miles down the road because drivers will insist on driving far to close to the vehicle in front.

I think we may be a little naive to think that taking trucks out of the second lane will improve very much at all on UK roads, the lane will simply fill up quickly with drivers who deserve to get ahead! I think the likely effect will be an increase in the cost of just about everything that the truckers deliver as time is money! :wink: 

I think the only solution is to do as they do in the USA and make all traffic drive at 55? Of course they never have any hold ups do they :roll: :lol: 

Just read it though and it sound like a real rant, not meant to be the case just defending the truckers...... :wink: 

Keith


----------



## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Keith,

I don't think its a get at the truckers thread, I believe that at certain points within the road network, it would be beneficial to stop truckers trying to overtake, and allow faster traffic a more uninterupted flow, this has been tried on the A14 and it worked well I understand.

The other very big thing that we should all do is stay in the left hand lane when travelling and only use the middle / outside lane for overtaking, and when you have over taken move back into the left hand lane.

We all know this is the correct procedure, but we don't always comply.


----------



## scouter (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes I've often thought that it works well on foreign 2 lane motorways(usually german). But then lane discipline is so much better generally and you can pull out to pass and get back in again without lots of flashing lights.

What does surprise me here is that even when there are 4 lanes on a hill eg the M62 west away from Brighouse in West Yorks, we sometimes have 3 lanes of slow moving HGVs, all moving at less than 56mph on the hill.

Even if the restrictions were only in place for busy times of the day and easy to implement as part of the managed motorways and running on the hard shoulder it would be a big advantage for HGVs to be limited to 2 of 4 or 1 of 3 in very busy spots

alan


----------



## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

As a (former) lorry driver, I see all sides of the argument: -

1. Why try to overtake the lorry that's doing 0.5mph less than you? (cos the boss is on the phone screaming at you about being late?)

2. Overtaking bans at appropriate points (eg between Birtley and Durham, A1 south) are great, but not if there's an old codger with hair growing out of his ears travelling slowly in lane 1 and you MAY NOT overtake. (also applies to slow moving lorries, horse boxes, tractors etc)

3. Middle lane hoggers are clearly driving without due care and attention and should be prosecuted accordingly. The fundamental principle of our system of driving is 'keep left' - no vehicle should be anywhere other than lane 1 unless overtaking

4. Lack of appreciation of the trucks ability to manouever (how do you spell manoover?) - the stopping distance required for a lorry, whilst consistent with the highway code is much longer than a cars, yet they persist in pulling in front of lorries at motorway exits then standing on the brakes to reach the slip road.

Finally, a point already raised in this thread - if you bought it, a truck brought it - so they are only serving your needs - give them a break!

David


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

I must say, that the system does work very well on the continent. the slow/lorry lane is also made of concrete which seems to be easier and cheaper to maintain and cuts down the rutting problem. They also have all the service pipes above ground and beside the road, so no roadwroks either!

This system works well, as all HGV'S have the same limit and not varying either - I have driven many hgv miles, and must say at 62mph, the truck is progressive and rarely drops to below 50mph on inclines. With limiting to 55mph the truck struggles - it seems to be just BELOW the power band and they die on an incline.

Out of two of my old trucks for example, one was brand new - limited 55mph and 3500rpm. The other 62, no limit on rpm. The new one would creep up every hill on the A30 at around 15-20mph - whereas the old one cruising at 62, would climb every hill at 45 lowest! Amazing what difference it makes!


This can take you to crawling speed - which is why if one is crawling, the other overtakes to keep momentum going.

Interesting thing is, this limiting is done for safety - but try driving at that speed, up and down the box and gets far more tiring! You also get bored at that speed when cruising - which isn't the case at 60mph - weird but true.

All for the conti methods though, but needs the limiters bringing back up, so trucks have the power to climb hills and all stay at a similar speed.


----------



## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Actually we used to have this system in place about 30 years ago on the M5 just south of the Frankly services, they widened the motorway and that was the end of that system it worked well for light vehicles but not for us HGV drivers it could put an extra half hour to our journey.

Ron


----------



## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

i agree most of the trouble seems to come from the muppets who sit in the middle lane and won't move for love nor money and even if they do go into the first lane come straight back out again i go to work at 4 every morning and the amount of people who do this is daft and it makes life much more dangerous when going by motorbike as you have to go across 2 lanes to go past then back again but still have this trouble with the m/h and same when we had the caravan


----------



## Tmax (Aug 5, 2006)

As an ex trucker I can agree with the argument that 56mph is too slow. If speeds were increased back to the old 62mph limit it would allow those who were able to pass by virtue of being lighter laden or had more powerful vehicles to do so. Most modern vehicles now have cruise control fitted and here lies the problem as drivers get on the motorway and set CC at the maximum of 56mph and no other HGV can pass unless on a hill or if their vehicle limiter is set marginally above 56mph. This is why you see two trucks duelling away for miles as the driver on the inside wont slow a fraction to let the other truck in. If you think the current situation is bad, you should be aware that some large companies are governing their vehicles at 50mph, so if you applied the HGVs allowed only in lane 1 rule it would result in total gridlock on our motorways. Finally the reason traffic moves so easily here in France is that it is a much bigger country and doesn't have the same volume of trucks per km. Also the fact that one has to pay road tolls makes a difference. In Spain where the motorway tolls are generally expensive you don't find a lot of HGV traffic as they stay on the National roads to avoid paying

Regards, Tom

Toujours a Vacances !


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Bring it in

Dave p


----------

