# Payload



## camoyboy

Just bought a "nearly new" Rapido 775F. The payload quoted is 340kgs with driver and 90% of fuel, water and gas. The only extras we have are an awning and 3 bike rack plus I put in a 2nd leisure battery. Total weight of vehicle is 3380kgs, leaving 120kgs for payload. With the wife and daughter on board we are already overweight!!!
Fortunately this vehicle can be uprated to 3850kgs for £250 + VAT but that doesn't explain why the vehicle is more than 100kgs over the weight on the spec sheet, after adding the weight of the extras.
With the huge underbed storage area it would be easy to overload the plated weight for this motorhome, so if buying new, order it with the uprated plate, as it is a no cost option.
Most of the 7 series Rapido's are similar weights, so this probably relates to the whole range.
Colin


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## 88838

"after adding the weight of the extras. " crucial word being extras

A lot of vans give no allowance for users. It's so that they can dazzle you with flash fridge-freezers, fixed double beds and large cookers - all incidentally usually situated behind rear axle - to enhance the option of getting stuck in wet ground  great fun - good way to spend your weekend. 

There are a lot of vans out there with the same problem - caveat emptor and all that -

not sure that you're still going to have enough spare capacity even with upgrade if there are three of you, best bet is to get the whole thing checked at weigh station then you'll know exactly what you are working with - and don't forget to check that axle weights not over as well as overall weights.

8)


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## Boff

camoyboy said:


> Fortunately this vehicle can be uprated to 3850kgs for £250 + VAT but that doesn't explain why the vehicle is more than 100kgs over the weight on the spec sheet, after adding the weight of the extras.


That is a common problem, not only with Rapidos. The biggest markets for motorhomes in Europe are Germany, France and Italy. In all these countries certain limitations apply when the allowed maximum gross weight exceeds 3.5 tons (speed limits etc.).

In addition at least in Germany since 1999 the driving licenses scheme has been adapted to EU standards, allowing only 3.5 tons for the standard license. (Older licenses like mine allow 7.5 tons!) Means that a growing number of potential customers is not allowed to drive heavier vehicles.

So the motorhome manufacturers try everything to stay below that "magic border". And "everything" includes reduction of payload and also sometimes cheating regarding the net weight.

Every buyer of a motorhome should request a weight certificate from the dealer before accepting the van.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## dodger148

Is the Rapido on the LWB Chassis, that allowance does seem low.

Just before we went away I did some sums, my allowance was 475kgs on a MWB Chassis (A-S Executive) and I thought that was bad when I got the netting down figure

I want to get the van weighed but am not having any luck finding a weighbridge, council very unhelpful

andy, do you know a weighbridge locally ?


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## peejay

Dodger,

Have a look here; http://www.uk-trucking.net/travel/s...=Weighbridges&search[location]=&Submit=search

Could also be handy for others searching for a weighbridge.

pete.


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## camoyboy

*Rapido payload*

Dodger,
yes, this is the LWB Maxi chassis. As I had just bought it ,I thought I would get it weighed before we started to add all the junk. I put 1 full 6kg bottle of gas in, 70 litres of water and a full tank of fuel. I weigh 85kg which is 10kg over average but the water tank capacity is 120 litres so I was still under that 90 % allowance. The awning, bike rack and extra battery come to 67 kgs so there should have been at least 250kg spare.
I had both the axles weighed seperately as well, and the rear axle is well within spec.
With 3 bikes on the rack, the wife, daughter and kit for the weekend, we weigh in at 3675kg, with the rear axle at 2080kg. So with the upgrade to 3850kg and rear axle MGW at 2150kg we are Ok, but there is no way we could have been legal at the standard plating of 3500 MGW.
I am lucky, it seems, to have 2 public weghbridges within a 5 miles radius, both very accomodating at £5 a weigh.
Colin


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## Anonymous

Colin,

Common story, or would be if more people actually weighed their vans - my 5.7 metre Fiat-based coachbuilt seems way heavier than it ought to be, currently hovering around 3400 kgs fully loaded. What chance does anyone have starting with 7 metre van?

I think it's about time MMM and the likes started taking their test vans to the weighbridge. I know it would be hard to compare like with like as there are so many variables, but at least you would be getting some objective figure.

And while they are about it they could check if the fridge is properly installed and a few other 'reality lapses' that seem to affect most manufacturers.

The next van I buy will visit the weighbridge before the deal is done. Anyone know how to go about this in Germany?

Chris


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## dodger148

Thanks for the link Pete, There are a couple of DOT sites in travelling distance will have a shufty.
Colin, I am amazed by your data, the LWB chassis is supposed to be the "one" and most people dont use it for building on due to its higher price over the MWB but it just shows how trust worthy we are of manufacturers. 
Like you I added extra for our weights etc but I did include two 6 kg gas cylinders not one


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## Boff

Hi Chris!



haylingchrist said:


> The next van I buy will visit the weighbridge before the deal is done. Anyone know how to go about this in Germany?


There are public weighbridges in Germany. Local authorities can tell you where the nearest one is.

So should you buy from a German dealer you should request a weight certificate from such a weighbridge from him at the time of purchase. That shouldn't be a problem.

If you buy a second hand van from a private owner then you should anyway do a test drive. And this should lead to the next public weighbridge. Should the owner not agree, then forget about the deal!

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 91123

This is all very baffling and confusing. Under what circumstances is your van weighed to check it is not over and what happens if you are? What are the reasons for the payload weight limits - does it make your vehicle dangerous if it is over?

Sorry to ask so many question.

Sonesta


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## Boff

Sonesta_uk said:


> Under what circumstances is your van weighed to check it is not over and what happens if you are? What are the reasons for the payload weight limits - does it make your vehicle dangerous if it is over?


I don't know about UK, but on the continent the police sometimes does weight checks on motorcaravans.

An overweight of up to 5% is almost always tolerated, this compensates for the possible inaccuracy of the weighbridge. Sometimes, if the fuzz is in a good mood, they tolerate maybe 10%.

But if you are above that (not you alone, you and your van together :wink: ), then you will be fined *and you have to unload until you are below the limit!* What you unload and what happens to your stuff afterwards is entirely your problem. :? Lucky if you only have to release your fresh water.

Reasons for the limit: The chassis of your van is designed for a certain maximum weight. Think especially of the brakes: The stopping distance increases in proportion with the weight. It may also happen that e.g. the tyres are overstressed and burst. 8O

So it does make your vehicle dangerous!

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 91123

Thanks Gerard,

How do you know if you are over, where do you find out and also is there a rough general guide of the the type of items you can take along with you in a motorhome that keeps you within the weight limits and one that would apply to most vehicles? Is the payload in addition to the furniture and fittings that come with the vehicle? Our motorhome is classed as a 5/6 berth does that mean we have a higher payload to take into account this amount of passengers?

Thanks.

Sonesta


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## Jeffus

*Air con*

Hi everyone, talking of payloads, does anyone know approx how much fitting cab air con adds to the weight of the van? cheers, Jeffus.


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## 88915

*payload*

to sonesta

The payload is the difference between the standard load (inc some water, fuel & driver) and the plated gross vehicle weight. Look under the bonnet of the van & you will see a plate that gives figures in kilos
There should be 4 from memory:-
first is maximum vehcle weight (eg 3500), this is the maximum load. You can be prosecuted if you are over this, it also invalidates your insurance.
second & third are the weights for each axle (for distribution of the total weight) and the 4th will be the maximium train weight (van plus any trailer).
it gets more confusing - my pilote has 3 plates - one by fiat for the orignal chassis, one by al-ko when the extended chassis was fitted, and one by pilote uprating it to 3850.

My problem is finding a weighbridge - west sussex are not exactly very helpful in providong this.


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## Boff

*Re: Air con*

Hi Jeffus!



Jeffus said:


> Hi everyone, talking of payloads, does anyone know approx how much fiiting cab air con adds to the weight of the van?


About 35 kilograms. Depends a bit on the model of the aircon and the van.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Jeffus

*Ta*

Good man Gerhard, many thanks for your air con info, much appreciated, Cheers, Jeffus. 8)


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## 88915

*payload*

with ref to my posting above, West sussex have come up with the details on weighbridges - just a few miles away and only £3.53! Ask your local trading standards office & they will give you a list of companies with weighbridges.

It makes you wonder how some of the manufacturers get away with selling vans that when loaded are obviously going to be over the plated weight. My pilote weighed in at 3360kg with half a tank of water and fuel, driver and kitted out (excluding bikes) by the time the wife and bikes are added and booze to come back from france we would be well over the top if it hadn't been uprated to 3850kg. 
The continental vans obviously try to keep under 3500kg because of the licensing restrictions, but we've no such problem here - it's only cost that they are considering. I don't think the dealers know anything about weights - they go on adding extras to get sales. I agree with the comments above - get definitive weights before buying.


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## 89122

Just had my Rapido 786F weighed, fully loaded with a 13kg and 6 kg gas bottles, 90% water, full fuel tank etc.
gross weight 3400kg
front axle 1500kg
rear axle 1900kg
it is a 3850kg chassis so I am well inside the limits thankfully
Eddie


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## Rapidoman

On the point of uprating the chassis to 3850kg. This can be done on the Alko chassis for £250? Im getting my Rapido from Brownhills Cannock & they can uprate for the higher payload for this price???


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## 92180

I have a good payload according to the sales data but am still confused by the plates on the unit. The side plate states 5200 gross, the Alko plate under the bonnet states 5500 gross. As the MH has 6 wheels all shod with disc brakes and ABS I would think that the brakes are not an issue. I can see the limits of the Alko axel but when I spoke to the VOSA office locally they were confused as to why a Ducato maxi van with 4 wheels could be plated at 5 tonnes and yet another axel only gave 200 to 500kgs. 
They thought that the manufacturers were unwilling to go to the additional ex[pense of re plating the entire unit and only took the cab manufacturers figures 

They gave me no reason to think that engineering wise the chassis limit was 5200 or 5500 kgs but thought it would carry quite a large safety factor. 

I believe that when cars are built the manufacturers have a 120% factor on all items related to the engine output - by that I mean if a car has an output of say 100bhp then the brakes, suspension etc is rated at 120bhp. 

I have yet to take my unit to a weighbridge but will do so soon complete with car on trailer and see what the story is.


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## RobinHood

Rapidoman said:


> On the point of uprating the chassis to 3850kg. This can be done on the Alko chassis for £250? Im getting my Rapido from Brownhills Cannock & they can uprate for the higher payload for this price???


AFAIK, as long as you arrange at time of order (or more probably before registration) all Rapidos delivered on the maxi chassis (which I think is the majority of them) will be plated and registered at 3850kg *free*.

Certainly was the case with mine (Brownhills Newark).

I would personally certainly recommend such a move on balance, but be aware there are also restrictions and drawbacks associated with driving a vehicle above 3500kg.


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## camoyboy

Rapidoman,
You should be able to get your new Rapido at 3850kg for no extra charge if you order it that way, as Robinhood says there are some other issues with the higher weight limit.
Asgard,
Your weights should come from the ALKO plate, as this is the chassis you are running, check with your log book to see what it says in there. I do not know of a 4 wheel Ducato that will take 5 tonnes. AFAIK, with air suspension, you can get plated up to 4100kg as a max.
Colin


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## Rapidoman

Thanks for the info guys  

Have ordered mine on the alko chassis so will be a bonus if it is plated at 3850kg! and i only ordered that because it was gonna take till September to get a Rapido on a Fiat chassis, where on the alko im expecting a May delivery


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## RobinHood

Rapidoman said:


> Thanks for the info guys
> 
> Have ordered mine on the alko chassis so will be a bonus if it is plated at 3850kg! and i only ordered that because it was gonna take till September to get a Rapido on a Fiat chassis, where on the alko im expecting a May delivery


I wouldn't rely on it by default. I would suggest contacting your salesman and making sure Brownhills understand your preference. The plating at 3500 or 3850 is an option (with 3500 documented as the default). The option of 3850 is free, and has no physical effect on the vehicle, other than a weight plate at the higher level.


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## 95960

*A huge weight lifted*

After reading some of these posts last year, started to get concerned. Paid an unofficial visit to a scottish quarry one night, (their weigh bridge lights were still on, but no one was home). We weighed in at 3870Kg, and this was a light weight scottish trip without the fleet of boards, kayak and bikes that we take when further afield.

Upon return to Dorset, removed wife and three kids from the Big Fish and visited a friends quarry, with full tanks. 3740Kg. Not much better.

Sister got fined in France for driving her overweight Pilote, so felt we needed to do something. Contacted The Vehicle Application Centre in Leyland. Have just completed a DIy installation of a Firestone Air Suspension kit with all the trimmings and sent my form off to TVAC. Next week my van will be legal, with a VIN plate showing 4170Kg and a suspension system to suit the purpose.

Autovan in Dorset can supply Firestone and TVAC supply good technical support, the kit and that all important VIN.

Looking forward to bringing back the annual supply from France next month, and more importantly being able to carry ample supplies for our Nordic excursion in the summer.

Big Fish :3dblob10:


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