# WOW!! Nature in the raw



## Marian

Coming out of the house this am at 8 I noticed a pile of feathers in the drive. Hmmm. Cat was still asleep and they weren't there last night. Hmmm. Backed down the drive, turned around, said prayer of adoration to van as I passed it when something caught my eye. Under the hedge was another pile of pigeon feathers. On top of this, eating it's breakfast was a sparrowhawk. WOW! I watched it for about ten minutes before I realised that the clock was ticking and work and the perils of the A27 were ahead of me. 

My new camera was in the house and I contemplated calling him indoors on my mobile to ask him to bring it out to me but figured that him approaching would frighten it away so the moment has gone unrecorded.

I am hoping that it is a lazy bird who realises that there is a veritable feast awaiting him at the end of my garden and he won't need to go too far to get his meals and stick around. I am also hoping that sparrowhawks have the sense to realise that they can eat far more with a pigeon than they can a robin, thrush, chaffinch or bluetit.

Not to everyone's taste I realise (no pun intended) but it was wonderful to watch this beautiful creature doing what he does best. Great start to the day for me but not so hot for the pigeon or the little pigeon wifey and kids waiting at home for him.

We are home this weekend for a change and I intend setting up his fishing bivvy as a hide in the garden with camera batteries fully charged and waiting and hoping he comes again. Had another thought. Can you tame them to come in your house and catch the mice that the cat is too bl...dy lazy to wake up and get?

Marian


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## Pusser

Marian said:


> Coming out of the house this am at 8 I noticed a pile of feathers in the drive. Hmmm. Cat was still asleep and they weren't there last night. Hmmm. Backed down the drive, turned around, said prayer of adoration to van as I passed it when something caught my eye. Under the hedge was another pile of pigeon feathers. On top of this, eating it's breakfast was a sparrowhawk. WOW! I watched it for about ten minutes before I realised that the clock was ticking and work and the perils of the A27 were ahead of me.
> 
> My new camera was in the house and I contemplated calling him indoors on my mobile to ask him to bring it out to me but figured that him approaching would frighten it away so the moment has gone unrecorded.
> 
> I am hoping that it is a lazy bird who realises that there is a veritable feast awaiting him at the end of my garden and he won't need to go too far to get his meals and stick around. I am also hoping that sparrowhawks have the sense to realise that they can eat far more with a pigeon than they can a robin, thrush, chaffinch or bluetit.
> 
> Not to everyone's taste I realise (no pun intended) but it was wonderful to watch this beautiful creature doing what he does best. Great start to the day for me but not so hot for the pigeon or the little pigeon wifey and kids waiting at home for him.
> 
> We are home this weekend for a change and I intend setting up his fishing bivvy as a hide in the garden with camera batteries fully charged and waiting and hoping he comes again. Had another thought. Can you tame them to come in your house and catch the mice that the cat is too bl...dy lazy to wake up and get?
> 
> Marian


Sometimes you do get extraordinary moments which always get you thinking. I thought what a lovely world we live in where nearly everything has to kill another living thing to survive. Today a chicken was killed for my benefit and yesterday a fish. Who knows what I shall be responsible for killing tomorrow. I'm hoping for a nice fat juicy pig. 8O


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## chapter

i had see here take down and eat a pigeon in the garden last summer
chapter


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## 104477

I love these out of the ordinary sights, it is great to take time to take them in. Last year in Spain we were diverted off the main road( due to landslide) and out into the open countryside. We then saw a flight of Eagles, two leading and three following. We assumed this was two adults and their offspring. We parked up and sat watching them untill they were out of site. A fantastic moment for us.


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## ksebruce

I was cycling along a country lane near us a few weeks ago. As I passed a what I thought was a dead rabbit, it moved so I thought I'd stop and put it out of its misery. Turning the bike I saw it was already dead and a stoat was trying to drag it into the hedge. this was a large full grown rabbit. I watched fasinated for ages till it eventually succeeded. Strong little b*****s aren't they? 8O


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## 96299

Great isn`t it,to see nature at close quarters like that.  had a similar experience a few years ago coming back from a metal detecting trip.We were driving down a very narrow country lane,and as we rounded a bend,,there right in front of us in the middle of the road was a sparrowhawk disecting a still alive white dove. 8O We could clearly see flesh being torn from the ill fated dove,when I had to get out of the van to warn an oncoming driver.As I put my hand up to stop him the sparrowhawk let go of the prey and amazingly the dove flew off,still being tracked by the hawk 8O .I dont know to this day if the hawk re-captured the dove,but I doubt it survived anyway. :roll: 

steve


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## citroennut

we have honeysuckle growing up the gable - always in leaf here :lol: and has a colony of speugs (sparrows) roosting in it. one day last summer there was a thump , i looked up to see a sparrowhawk flying away. it had crashed/flown into the honeysuckle after food but came away empty clawed/beaked  
simon


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## 96511

I had a visit from a sparrowhawk and managed a shaky pic through the window. It was late in the day and starting to get dark. Using a long lens and slow shutter speed is never a good idea. My excitement didn't help either


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## 96299

vaila2 said:


> I had a visit from a sparrowhawk and managed a shaky pic through the window. It was late in the day and starting to get dark. Using a long lens and slow shutter speed is never a good idea. My excitement didn't help either


Shame...That would of been a great photo.

steve


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## Smilo

Pusser said:


> .....what a lovely world we live in where nearly everything has to kill another living thing to survive. Today a chicken was killed for my benefit and yesterday a fish. Who knows what I shall be responsible for killing tomorrow. I'm hoping for a nice fat juicy pig. 8O


Hmm, well, just in case it hadn't occurred to anyone, killing for the "benefit" of humans is _a very different matter _from the necessary killing of wild birds and animals by wild birds and animals.

Looking at the big picture, i.e. quite a lot further than what sort of juices and flavours we might want to have flooding around our gums, the "benefit" is highly questionable. I'd be surprised if some of you don't find this interesting: http://www.tonywardle.co.uk/articles/vl33_1.php and likewise other articles from the Global Issues link.


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## Biglol

A friend of mine was on her motorbike driving home from work one evening and a full grown dear jumped out of the hedge and landed on her, she spent many weeks in hospital and was off work for months. Don't get me wrong, I love wild animals. 
There is room for all Gods creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.


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## petie

*buzards*

Hi,we have a family of buzzards nesting close to our house here in the north,I often see them out looking for food,they usually don't kill to survive, and live of small dead animals etc, they have a wingspan of about three feet.Usually during the mating season there are about nine of them about.


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## 96299

*Re: buzards*



petie said:


> Hi,we have a family of buzzards nesting close to our house here in the north,I often see them out looking for food,they usually don't kill to survive, and live of small dead animals etc, they have a wingspan of about three feet.Usually during the mating season there are about nine of them about.


I see a pair circleing quite close the ground on the way back from the NEC last week around bedfordshire on the m1. 8O Seen quite a few around that area when I`ve been doing me hobby up that way in the past.

steve


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## citroennut

There is room for all Gods creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.[/quote]

yeah with the blood oozing out to be mopped up with the mash lovely

simon


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## 108921

As a vegan, I get really upset when I see sights like those mentioned above.

Last year, however, I saw something which really had me amazed as well as upset. I was working in the greenhouse when a beautiful butterfly was flittering really quickly all around me. Then I realised that a wasp had it in its clutches, gripping it really hard on its back, and was constantly stinging it. I managed to trap a jar over them and put them outside and yet no matter what I did, the wasp would not let go. The butterfly must have been in agony. I squashed down on the wasp with a spatula and eventually the butterfly got away but couldn't fly. I killed it quickly to put it out of its misery but was so upset I couldn't live with myself for a few days.

I didn't realise wasps attacked butterflies.


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## Pusser

runoutofnames said:


> As a vegan, I get really upset when I see sights like those mentioned above.
> 
> Last year, however, I saw something which really had me amazed as well as upset. I was working in the greenhouse when a beautiful butterfly was flittering really quickly all around me. Then I realised that a wasp had it in its clutches, gripping it really hard on its back, and was constantly stinging it. I managed to trap a jar over them and put them outside and yet no matter what I did, the wasp would not let go. The butterfly must have been in agony. I squashed down on the wasp with a spatula and eventually the butterfly got away but couldn't fly. I killed it quickly to put it out of its misery but was so upset I couldn't live with myself for a few days.
> 
> I didn't realise wasps attacked butterflies.


A vet once told me that animals do not view pain in the same way as we do and I deduced from that it does not hurt them as much as it would us. Just wish I could have believed him.


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## pippin

_As a vegan, I get really upset when I see sights like those mentioned above. _

Nature is nasty - that is just the way it is, and has been for, well, ever.

Nature is very difficult to change, no matter how much we want to do so.

And is it right even to try?

Have I opened a can of - oops - spaghetti?


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## 96299

Always leave nature to take it`s coarse.Its meant to be that way.I personaly wouldn`t have seperated the wasp from the flutterby  but thats just me.

steve


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## Texas

ksebruce said:


> I was cycling along a country lane near us a few weeks ago. As I passed a what I thought was a dead rabbit, it moved so I thought I'd stop and put it out of its misery. Turning the bike I saw it was already dead and a stoat was trying to drag it into the hedge. this was a large full grown rabbit. I watched fasinated for ages till it eventually succeeded. Strong little b*****s aren't they? 8O


I wish that little chap would pay my garden a visit, we have a rabbit problem here-despite wire fences-the cheeky little bl**ders just jump over the fence, chew the new shoots and skedaddle back from whence they came. :evil: :evil:


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## ksebruce

Texas said:


> ksebruce said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was cycling along a country lane near us a few weeks ago. As I passed a what I thought was a dead rabbit, it moved so I thought I'd stop and put it out of its misery. Turning the bike I saw it was already dead and a stoat was trying to drag it into the hedge. this was a large full grown rabbit. I watched fasinated for ages till it eventually succeeded. Strong little b*****s aren't they? 8O
> 
> 
> 
> I wish that little chap would pay my garden a visit, we have a rabbit problem here-despite wire fences-the cheeky little bl**ders just jump over the fence, chew the new shoots and skedaddle back from whence they came. :evil: :evil:
Click to expand...

Yep we have loads on our site, making a right dogs breakfast of my lawn. Did see a Stoat at the back of our van once with a baby rabbit in its gob. Seems to have moved on now. Pity I would have built it a Stoats Mansion it could have lived in the lap of luxury.


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## Smilo

Chigman said:


> Always leave nature to take it`s coarse. Its meant to be that way. steve


No domesticated animals then? No farms, no housing estates, no felled trees, no roads and roadkill????? No answer required!!


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## 96299

Smilo said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Always leave nature to take it`s coarse. Its meant to be that way. steve
> 
> 
> 
> No domesticated animals then? No farms, no housing estates, no felled trees, no roads and roadkill????? No answer required!!
Click to expand...

er..thats all natural,it`s called human nature :roll: I think you know what I mean though.

steve


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## Smilo

runoutofnames said:


> As a vegan, I get really upset when I see sights like those mentioned above.


I tend to apply variable measures of cognitive dissonance (sensory white noise) in order to distract me when I see, hear, read or am told about something distressing, whoever, or whatever, is being subjected to that distress. I believe we all, well, very nearly all, do that. Those who knowingly cause distress and enjoy it, or do not react with empathy or remorse to a person's, or to an animal's distress, would probably be classified as psychopaths.

I'd find it very hard to believe that any normal person is entirely unmoved when they see, for example, that cheetah catch that gazelle on TV. Some degree of empathy for the gazelle is healthy, I think, not soft at all. And even a shrug is a reaction.

I would feel more than a little concerned about someone who tried, or worse, managed to convince me that in such circumstances they felt _nothing but _pleasure.


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## 96299

Hi Smilo

I am obviously a differnt animal to you.I feel that I have a very good understanding of nature and only see a kill as an end to a means.Sure,you feel a bit sorry for the prey animal but that soon wears off when you see the lion cubs (for instance)that get fed by it.Something dies so something lives,it`s pretty simple really.

steve


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## Zebedee

Smilo said:


> I tend to apply variable measures of cognitive dissonance (sensory white noise) in order to distract me . . . .


Sorry Smilo, it sounds jolly impressive but that ain't cognitive dissonance! 

Check out Leon Festinger and the great flood that wasn't!

_(I remember standing on the school field and watching for the tidal wave!)_ :roll:


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## 97984

We visited RSPB reserve at Sandy & were amazed to see a Sparrowhawk take a bath in the pond! I shot some video of it:

http://www.digiscope.neateimaging.com/page29.html

We also have a semi-resident Sparrowhawk who visits our garden...this is not good for the local bird population


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## 96299

cneate said:


> We visited RSPB reserve at Sandy & were amazed to see a Sparrowhawk take a bath in the pond! I shot some video of it:
> 
> http://www.digiscope.neateimaging.com/page29.html
> 
> We also have a semi-resident Sparrowhawk who visits our garden...this is not good for the local bird population


Chris...Your a lucky chap to have caught that on film.well done,it was great. 

steve

ps I too have a s/h visit my garden.It landed on a fence 6ft away from me once 8) It soon shot off again though. 

steve


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## Smilo

Chigman said:


> I feel that I have a very good understanding of nature and only see a kill as an end to a means.*Sure,you feel a bit sorry for the prey animal *but that soon wears off when you see the lion cubs (for instance)that get fed by it.Something dies so something lives,it`s pretty simple really.


It appears we agree then, in that we both feel "sorry for the prey".


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## Smilo

Zebedee said:


> Sorry Smilo, it sounds jolly impressive but that ain't cognitive dissonance!  Check out Leon Festinger and the great flood that wasn't!


Well, forgive me, Zeb, for trying too hard to avoid waffle. What I was wanting to put across is that we all tend to suffer, that's probably the right word, from tendencies to convince ourselves that (certain) bad things aren't happening. I'd be surprised if such behaviour weren't part of a very ancient survival mechanism or, perhaps more recently, a coping strategy.

History is full of examples of "normal" folks not allowing themselves to adequately consider that something apparently wrong was really wrong, e.g. slavery, that the awful treatment of Jews in WWII might have had some real justification, and that there was good and adequate reason to start a war against Iraq. I _suggest_ that _in terms of our approach _to it, the following might be comparable: the killing _every year _in the UK of 850 million (and in the US 27 billion) animals so as to _very inefficiently_ provide an _unnecessary _type of food for humans.

On the matter of Professor Festinger and the flood I note: _"While fringe members were more inclined to recognise that they had made fools of themselves and to "put it down to experience", committed members were more likely to re-interpret the evidence to show that they were right all along (the earth was not destroyed because of the faithfulness of the cult members)"._

If, because you feel you are perhaps removed from it, you allow yourself no more than a shrug over the annual slaughter of billions and billions and billions of (bloody) animals [and the huge, (extreme would probably be more accurate), environmental degradation associated with those deaths], then you might wish to consider whether or not your shrugging position is akin to that of those "committed members [who] were more likely to re-interpret the evidence to show that they were right all along". Is a shrug, mental or physical, akin to (self) deception in certain circumstances? If even 1% of the UK's annually slaughtered 850 million animals were all to be slaughtered in the open field at the bottom of your garden, it would be difficult for you to avoid cognition of that.

Might I add, looks as if I am doing, that I do appreciate very much that you chose not to contribute to the discussion any comments such as, "Gods creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes......... yeah with the blood oozing out".


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## clodhopper2006

I remember years ago while working nights. It was just getting light and I went outside for a skive. Standing looking out along the railway line I was atracted by movement to a spot in the undergowth. There was a fox as relaxed as I've ever seen. It circled for a moment and then layed down to go to sleep just like my dog does. Ok hardly a remarkable event but I was moved by the beauty of it and I'll always remember it.

Bob


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