# Saving your dog.



## Drew (May 30, 2005)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5289949/Climber-inundated-hate-messages-abandons-dog.html

What would you have done?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Very sad and I hope that those unfeeling people who have targeted him are dealt with by the law and by FB - such messages are now actionable and I hope FB faces up to it's responsibilites.

As regards the decision to leave Meg - that is understandable IMO - not nice but we are repeatedly reminded NOT to put human lives at risk for the sake of a pet (when people go into rough seas to save their dog and end up losing THEIR life).

The only alternative would have been to stay with the dog as a huddle and HOPE that Mountain Resue were able to find them all BEFORE they all died - and that is debatable.

Would I have taken a 12 year old Border Collie up? I do not know as I have no clue how conditions were when they started nether do I know whether the dog had suffered a similar problem before - if so then it was not a sensible decision but if not then I suspect all of us would hardly have give that possibility a second thought - wewould probably have forgotten how old the dog was....

BUT whatever there is no justification for the sort of hate responses that have been posted - those people need to be dealt with and banned from FB forthwith.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

What would the report have been, had they stayed with the dog and all died, probably praised the devotion to the dog, but called them stupid, it's a no win situation.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Every member of our emergency services is trained on saving lives. The first thing they are taught is not to endanger their own live. Without bringing an animal into the situation I believe this sums it up.


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Some very odd human beings consider dogs are far more important than humans!


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

I take a different view, First and foremost did they study the weather forecast? Secondly did they inform the relevant authorities of there intended route, and estimated return time? Thirdly did they have adequate emergency survival gear with them? If the answers to those questions is yes, then the recommended action in those circumstances is to remain sheltered in place, and await rescue. If the conditions were that bad, they ran the risk of off injury if trying to make their own way back. If the answers were no, then they should be prosecuted IMHO for potentially putting the lives of rescue teams at risk. Without knowing the exact details, it sounds to me to be irresponsible in the least, and possibly criminal at worst in taking a 12 year old dog on such a walk in such conditions. From a purely personal point of view I've no sympathy for him at all.


Malcolm


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

emjaiuk said:


> I take a different view, First and foremost did they study the weather forecast? Secondly did they inform the relevant authorities of there intended route, and estimated return time? Thirdly did they have adequate emergency survival gear with them? If the answers to those questions is yes, then the recommended action in those circumstances is to remain sheltered in place, and await rescue. If the conditions were that bad, they ran the risk of off injury if trying to make their own way back. If the answers were no, then they should be prosecuted IMHO for potentially putting the lives of rescue teams at risk. Without knowing the exact details, it sounds to me to be irresponsible in the least, and possibly criminal at worst in taking a 12 year old dog on such a walk in such conditions. From a purely personal point of view I've no sympathy for him at all.
> 
> Malcolm


Hmm, interesting point of view, poor bugger still lost his dog, so some sympathy at least.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

emjaiuk said:


> I take a different view, First and foremost did they study the weather forecast? Secondly did they inform the relevant authorities of there intended route, and estimated return time? Thirdly did they have adequate emergency survival gear with them?* If *the answers to those questions is yes, then the recommended action in those circumstances is to remain sheltered in place, and await rescue. *If* the conditions were that bad, they ran the risk of off injury* if* trying to make their own way back. *If* the answers were no, then they should be prosecuted IMHO for potentially putting the lives of rescue teams at risk. Without knowing the exact details, it sounds to me to be irresponsible in the least, and possibly criminal at worst in taking a 12 year old dog on such a walk in such conditions. From a purely personal point of view I've no sympathy for him at all.
> 
> Malcolm


*If,* A small word with a very large meaning.

*If only.* How often have we said this or heard it being said?

When visiting a friend yesterday, whose mother had just died, it was said on numerous occasions, and yet we still carry on from day to day repeating it time and time again until the next *If only*.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

EJB said:


> Some very odd human beings consider dogs are far more important than humans!


By odd, do you mean the elderly, lonely or depressed people whose animals are there only faithful creatures?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

747 said:


> By odd, do you mean the elderly, lonely or depressed people whose animals are there only faithful creatures?


That is not how I would interpret what was said, far from it, the people that you mention; elderly, lonely, depressed are probably the most staunch dog lovers that exist but there is no evidence about where their values of dog v. human lie.

Sadly, at present I could probably be put in that group; elderly? TICK lonely? TICK depressed? No

My other half is working in the UK for reasons that I will not repeat, so my Border Collie is my only companion.

BUT in a case of him or me the answer would always be me; my family to some extent depends on me - not on the dog so my decision wuld be clear in such a situation.

Either way making such an attack as has been made is wrong - my son has also been attacked for making similar statements on FB - dogs are animals; our primary responsibility must be towards humans and specifically preservatio of one's own life is paramount.


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

What would I have done?

I've been a walker all my life and used to be an active mountaineer and rock climber. Our dog is now almost 14 and walks wherever we go, albeit a little more slowly these days. 

Last year whilst we were all camping in the Brecon Beacons I decided to nip up Pen-y-Fan because the views from the top are superb. It's a simple path often walked by people of all ages and states of health. 

Out of respect to our dog's age I left her at the bottom with Mrs HS, because I felt it was the right thing to do.


.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

You may be the most ugly stupid person alive, but a dog will never judge you or not like you and will always greet you when you come home.










ray.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

More information needed on what happened, I walk a lot in the hills and take the dog with me, but he is only 2 and as fit as a fiddle. I would not leave him whatever the circumstances. I would empty the rucksack first of everything but the bare essentials, wrap him in a blanket etc put him in and try to reach safety/shelter.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Too bloody obvious that Paul, I wonder if that was possible for them.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Too bloody obvious that Paul, I wonder if that was possible for them.


.......when his Border Collie, Meg, lost the use of her legs.

The owner made the heartbreaking decision to leave the 12-year-old pet behind after he and his friend struggled to carry her against the horrendous wind and rain.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I Mean did they have a rucksack Drew.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I Mean did they have a rucksack Drew.


Sorry Kev, *(Whatsit)* I wasn't there.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Too bloody obvious that Paul, I wonder if that was possible for them.


I would like to know more information Kev like I said, had the dogs legs gave way in recent weeks/months, had it been to the vet, did it have arthritis etc.

Mountains are no place for elderly dogs, were the 2 guys lost up there or were they not lost but it was the dog that couldn't walk that was the issue?

If they were not lost and knew the way back then its irresponsible to say the least, but I would like to know the full story before judging.

They should have had a rucksack each surely, they could have taken it in turns carrying it. I don't want to sound a hero but there is no way I would be leaving this fellow up there


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Ted


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Drew said:


> Sorry Kev, *(Whatsit)* I wasn't there.


You can't go sticking (whatsits) in willy nilly you know.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

coppo said:


> Ted


Who that grinning idiot with the dog John


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

I full understand what you are saying Coppo, however, from what we know, would you have stayed with your dog and possibly died with it or would you have left it to save your own life?


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Drew said:


> I full understand what you are saying Coppo, however, from what we know, would you have stayed with your dog and possibly died with it or would you have left it to save your own life?


I am saying I would like more information, mountains can be horrendous places, people die up there regularly. I want to know how fit the dog was like I said, taking a 12 year old dog up a mountain is questionable to start with.

There are loads of other questions as Malcolm has said, how prepared were they equipment wise, who was informed, they found themselves in a situation but could that situation have been avoided.

I would have been prepared I hope, all the gear and put him in the rucksack in an emergency situation and dumped non essential stuff. I would imagine a Border Collie would weigh about 16-18kgish.

Loads of people are irresponsible and don't understand that mountains are highly dangerous environments, going unprepared, no compass, not informing the relevant people, unsuitable clothes/equipment.

You are just looking at the final question Drew, would you leave the dog or save yourself, its never that simple in my experience. Emergency situations up mountains are often caused by bad decisions/choices rather than just happen. Ask any mountain rescue teams.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Quite frankly, no I wouldn’t have left her

But then again as a mountain walker I’d have been well equipped to deal with the weather if I was winter walking, we always carried thermal” blankets “ , specialist clothing , just in case of an unexpected occurrence 

We walked the mountains with 6 kids and I wouldn’t have left one of them either 

Obviously there is a difference, but a kid with a broken leg who we were unable to carry ? 

Same principal applies 

We once carried Shep a border collie from the top of Hellvelyan, when she got sun stroke, to immerse her in the tarn and onwards to the bottom, in high temps ,so it can be done , well Albert carried her I carried two rucksacks 

Obviously we couldn’t carry Shadow, but no I wouldn’t leave him to die alone 

But if they were stupid enough to venture out without the correct equipment , thank goodness their dog wasn’t a 12 yr old boy , that they couldn’t carry 

And yes you can argue that’s not the same thing

But think, is it not ??

They were not prepared for the for weather on a mountain 

And we’ve metand rescued them, people badly clothed , heading off a mountain the wrong way towards crags 

And in those days we walked with Oden , a large long haired german shepherd with herding instincts 

And we walked those fells and mountains and he knew them 

His self imposed role was to escort everyone safely off the mountain as darkness fell 

And people passed us and said, he won’t take no for an answer , he’s insistent we keep up and he’s the last 

Although at night in the pub lots of bits of steak came his way 

So maybe he was just earning his living:grin2:

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

When walking in the mountains I would always be sufficiently prepared in case I or one of the kids twisted an ankle or could not carry on. We would take shelter and curl up for the night if necessary. A suitably equiped walker should be able to spend at least one night out in almost any conditions.Absolutely the same with an animal and actually I think 12 years is perhaps too old to expect them to go out up the mountains ......no wonder his poor legs just gave way.

People are comparing the importance of animals or humans and I agree if it was a clear Sophies Choice of I'll kill you or the dog............but I don't think it was quite so obvious in this situation and should never have got to that stage anyway.

But no doubt the poor chap is mortified and all the hate mail does not help


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No way should there be hate mail 

What’s the point ?

He was obviously not prepared for bad weather, and an elderly dog 

Idiot 

Sophie’s choice 

Well obviously the dog, 

in shadows case, a hound from hell, who adores his family, he would gladly give up his life for any one of them 

But I would need to be sure there wasn’t an alternative 

That wasn’t due to my inability to have prevented it 

Still think, if it wasn’t a dog, it was a child 

So what would you do to preserve that life

It you couldn’t 

What the hell are you doing up that mountain 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So many people do not realise how arthritic dogs become as they age. They just comment that he slowing down a bit in his old age. If that was the case here, and the cause of the dog not being able to walk then it is very sad. The dog would have been suffering all the way up the mountain and probably even more on the way down. The dog would have finally collapsed.

The vet has described Esther, our new 10 year old rescue Collie cross, as being in agony with an arthritic back. The previous owners did not even have her on any sort of pain relief. Her whole body is full of strangely developed muscles where she has been compensating for the pain all these years. 


I blame this walker for not checking that the dog was fit to make such a journey. Yes the dog would be keen to go with his master. He is just a dog and does not understand the significance that the cold and climbing a steep incline and, worse, descending a steep incline would have on his joints.


Would I have left him? Can't really answer because I would not have taken him. If my, fit young, dog had an accident I would have stayed.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It seems that there is more to this story than the initial reports. It seems the owner went searching for the dog several days later and then carried the body down. All a bit suspicious. There is a petition on Facebook to ask the SPCA to investigate.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

patp said:


> It seems that there is more to this story than the initial reports. It seems the owner went searching for the dog several days later and then carried the body down. All a bit suspicious. There is a petition on Facebook to ask the SPCA to investigate.


There has been heavy snow in Scotland which possibly accounts for that.

a) He would not be able to find it.
b) It would be too dangerous.


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