# Apache 634 max gross weight query .



## Freddiebooks

Hello all,

I'm a little confused about the whole weight thing . 

I'm pretty right in thinking that the 634 can be either 3500 or 3650 kg maximum gross weight . On the plate under the bonnet it reads 3650 yet on the v5 document it states 3500. 

I'm ok to drive 7.5 tonnes so would like to be sure I can go up to 3650 with no consequences . 

So if 3.5 how do I upgrade to the heavier weight . Does it involve mechanical work or just a tick of a box ? 

Many thanks in advance .


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## Bill_OR

What's the taxation class in the V5?
When I bought my Apache 634 in 2012 it was a no-cost option at purchase for the MH to be registered at 3500 if that's what I wanted. The only effect is a reduction in payload.
Bill


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## Freddiebooks

Bill_OR said:


> What's the taxation class in the V5?
> When I bought my Apache 634 in 2012 it was a no-cost option at purchase for the MH to be registered at 3500 if that's what I wanted. The only effect is a reduction in payload.
> Bill


Hi Bill,

Private/Light Goods (PLG)


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## Freddiebooks

Bill_OR said:


> What's the taxation class in the V5?
> When I bought my Apache 634 in 2012 it was a no-cost option at purchase for the MH to be registered at 3500 if that's what I wanted. The only effect is a reduction in payload.
> Bill


Hi Bill,

Private/Light Goods (PLG)


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## duxdeluxe

If that is the case then if you are over 3500kg then you are likely to be deemed overweight if stopped and weighed by VOSA or whatever they call themselves nowadays. And they do stop Motorhomes. Got pulled in at South Mimms once - surprised them by knowing the max weight and also my guess at what is actually was being close to the mark.


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## peribro

Whose plate is it under the bonnet that says 3,650? If it is an Autotrail plate then that is what the vehicle has been rated at and it is probable that the V5 application form was incorrectly completed by the original supplying dealer. If the plate is a Fiat plate then you need to find the Autotrail plate and see what that says. If the plate is a 3rd party one such as SV Tech and you bought the van second hand, then it is likely that the previous owner had the van uprated but didn't obtain a new V5.

If you still can't get to the bottom of it then contact Autotrail with the chassis number and they will tell you what the weight was when it left their factory. If the V5 is incorrect then it is easy to get it corrected.

ps in the unlikely event that you were stopped by VOSA then I imagine that it would be the weight on the plate that they would go by rather than the V5


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## Bill_OR

I guess it may be an error when the vehicle was registered but, given that it was an option offered by Auto-Trail then I suspect that the original purchaser requested the vehicle to be registered at 3500.

Hence it should be a paper exercise to re-register the Apache at its original 3650 weight as a PHGV.

I guess you can do this yourself (if you can find out how) or use a company like SV Tech who specialise in this sort of thing.

The bonus is, of course, that VED is lower!


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## Wizzo

SV Tech are the people to get in touch with. I uprated my 634 to 3850 but I was given 3 options at the time:

1) Uprate to 3750kg with no work necessary, just a paper exercise.

2) Uprate to 3850kg with the addition of air suspension on the rear.

3) Uprate to 3850kg plus rear axle uprated from 2000kg to 2240kg by the addition of air suspension on the rear plus change of tyres to 112 rated (from 109). This meant a tyre size change from 215 to 225.

JohnW


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## Bill_OR

John,
What were the costs of those 3 options at the time?
The low payload on the Apache is a concern when we're coming back from France with the odd bottle of wine ;-)
Thanks,
Bill


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## Freddiebooks

Thanks to all for some very good advice.

The plate is a Fiat plate that reads 3650kg. I contacted the very helpful previous owner who needed it registered at 3500kg for his licence requirements. 

So i'm now assuming the way forward is to contact the DVLA to change the weight on the V5 document, then inform the insurance firm. Then all being well that'll keep everything in good order.


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## 91502

Freddiebooks said:


> Thanks to all for some very good advice.
> 
> The plate is a Fiat plate that reads 3650kg. I contacted the very helpful previous owner who needed it registered at 3500kg for his licence requirements.
> 
> So i'm now assuming the way forward is to contact the DVLA to change the weight on the V5 document, then inform the insurance firm. Then all being well that'll keep everything in good order.


There must be another plate, you cannot just register it at a different weight as the weight used if stopped will be that on the plate visible at the time.
The original fiat plate will have been superseded by an auto trail plate at the time of conversion, these are often not in the same location.
If the previous owner had it plated at 3500kg from new this will be on an auto trail plate somewhere but if he had it down plated it will be on a plate issued by someone such as svtech.


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## Freddiebooks

Then I am at a loss to where it has been put JP. 

Autotrail do the downgrade at no cost, so surely they can't have used another company to do the work as they are tight fisted enough.


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## Wizzo

> John,
> What were the costs of those 3 options at the time?
> The low payload on the Apache is a concern when we're coming back from France with the odd bottle of wine ;-)
> Thanks,
> Bill


Hi Bill,

I had the air suspension done at the same time as having a solar panel fitted but it would have been around the £550 mark I think.

The tyres - I took the option of having Toyo HO9 Mud and Snow tyres fitted. Cost was £100 apiece, sold the Continental Vanco Campers for £100 (so £300 total).

SV Tech charged about £250 IIRC.

So over £1,000 to go the whole hog.

I really didn't have a lot of choice because the van was running at 3,600kg with next to nothing in it.

JohnW


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## 91502

Freddiebooks said:


> Then I am at a loss to where it has been put JP.
> 
> Autotrail do the downgrade at no cost, so surely they can't have used another company to do the work as they are tight fisted enough.


I cannot help on the location of the plate as all mine have been Hymer's who put the plate by the habitation door in clear view.

The only reason I mentioned it could have been done by another company was if the previous keeper wasn't the first owner.


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## Freddiebooks

JP said:


> Freddiebooks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I am at a loss to where it has been put JP.
> 
> Autotrail do the downgrade at no cost, so surely they can't have used another company to do the work as they are tight fisted enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot help on the location of the plate as all mine have been Hymer's who put the plate by the habitation door in clear view.
> 
> The only reason I mentioned it could have been done by another company was if the previous keeper wasn't the first owner.
Click to expand...

I am the 2nd keeper and the previous bought it from new.


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## Wizzo

> Then I am at a loss to where it has been put JP.
> I cannot help on the location of the plate .......


The Autotrail plate is stuck inside the cupboard where the Power Supply unit is situated. It took me about 6 months before I came across mine.

JohnW


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## Freddiebooks

Good work everyone, i found the 2nd conversion plate issued by Autotrail that reads 3500kg.

So all i need do now is contact Swansea and inform they i wish to revert back to the original 3650kg, or is someone going to tell me it's not as easy as that !! I bet they are.


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## 91502

Your quite right, that is why svtech do most people's and charge around £300. 
If it was that simple what would stop everyone uprating, you need to prove the vehicle is capable and safe at the higher rate.
My Hymer is down plated because they change from 16" to 15" wheels which do not have tyres rated for the higher load, therefore it couldn't safely be plated higher without modification even though it was higher as a base vehicle.
If any of that makes sense.


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## Freddiebooks

Doesn't the fact it was downgraded with zero modification count for anything ? It's exactly the same van, or it it a £300 sticker ?


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## 91502

If it was done at conversion it would never have been registered at the higher rate just 3500 at first registration. You need proof and this is what you pay for with companies like svtech who have done all the testing and vosa accept as qualified to make these desisions. It can be done by anyone but I believe the fee they charge is well worth the stress it saves plus you get your new plate included.


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## peribro

You have two issues that probably merge into one. As you have discovered from weighing your van (other thread) it is quite a bit heavier than it was when it left the factory and even if you uprate it back to 3,650kg I don't think you are going to have sufficient payload - certainly if the highest of the two weighbridge readings was correct. Therefore I think your best bet is to contact SV Tech and see what the maximum GVW is that they can get your van up to. Hopefully it will be higher than 3,650kg in which case you will be getting a bit more for your £300 than just a sticker!


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## 91502

Maybe while spending the money you should look at going higher as your still going to be close to your limit at 3650 so better to pay once and get the most you can.


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## Freddiebooks

Thanks JP you have been a great help as have the other posters. Many Thanks.

If going down the svtech route i may as well go for the maximum weight with no modification which is 3750kg.


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## Freddiebooks

Sent this to AT for there opinion and advice on the matter. I'll let you know what they say. 

Apache 634, 3650kg, but converted by AT to 3500kg for the first 1st Keeper. 

Mass in Running Order 3310kg. When taken to the weighbridge no persons were inside, the water tank empty (hot water full), fuel 17 litres, wastes empty. So rule of thumb approx 225kg less than the MRO. 

So roughly speaking 3085kg remaining. Add to this, factory fitted solar 10kg, Bike 14kg, Ball mounted rack 4kg, Tow Bar 30kg ? Extra gas 25kg So i get that to 3168kg. Add to this food, belongings, levelling blocks, hose pipe and general stuff is 100kg. Gets me to 3268kg . With a remainding payload of 232kg for people, fuel and water at my discretion

The Bridge reading was 3360kg on Friday (worrying), then another bridge on Saturday read a mind blowing 3440kg (i nearly fell over) When round abouts it should be reading 3268kg . (add some for media pack also and sports line extras)

Am i missing something here Colin ? Is there discrepencies with the MRO as i can find no literature to suggest it. I mean going by todays reading, I was overloaded by driving back to the lock up, and thats with fuel light on, zero water tank. 

But if the published figures are true then am i right to assume both weighbridges are wonky ?


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## 91502

I very much doubt they will choose to reply other than with a standard statement, at the end of the day you didn't buy from them so have no come back. AT are one of the worst offenders but there are others in selling vans which are basically not fit for purpose. Even if your weights are not quite accurate their predicted weights don't allow you what would be reasonably accepted as enough payload at 3500kg and not even 3600kg. I would bet that 9 out of 10 similar models are running seriously overweight. This situation has always been around with them trying to fit more into bigger vans but still keep on chassis suitable for 70+ drivers but now that market is growing with more younger drivers coming along they need to keep building them.


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## Abacist

Fitting air suspension and heavier rated tyres are easy options to weight upgrade. I used SVTech but did the fitting myself - easy!

As a result I got almost 500 kgs increase with the tyres upping the rear axle limit.


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## Bill_OR

Abacist,
What air suspension units did you fit? Are the fitting instructions on the web?
Did you start with the SVTech process and then do the installation - and then demonstrate it to SVTECH? How does it all work?
I'm definitely interested and want to check that I can do the job myself.
Thanks,
Bill


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## Freddiebooks

And Abacist . . . . How much ?


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## djp30

Re weight upgrade. I have been through this process several times for myself and for friends. The key thing seems to be wheel size. If you have 15" wheels you will struggle to get much more than the 3650 you have now. On 16" it is possible to get 4500kg or more.
Ive just up plated my Adria again to 4500kg on 225/75×16 - 121 rated.
As stated SV Tech are the experts, ring them with your chassis & tyre details first before spending any money.


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## peribro

Speak to SV Tech first and they will tell you what you need to do. I had them uprate my Autotrail Cherokee but I already had the larger wheels / tyres so that was not an issue. I had also already fitted Airride rear suspension so again that was not an issue. However no point in investing in these things before you've spoken to them - unless you want them anyway.


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## Abacist

You start with SVTech and tell them your van make, model, year and Vin number and ask what your options are for a weight upgrade. You need to also tell them it's current plated weight and send them a scanned copy of the V5 doc for the van. They do their bit with Fiat or whatever and came back to me saying that I could do 3 things for my 2010 AT Savannah. 

1. Have a weight upgrade and do nothing physical
2. Have a bigger weight upgrade by fitting air suspension
3. Have a bigger weight upgrade and a rear axle upgrade by fitting heavier weight duty rear tyres

1. Was not enough for me so I went for 1. And 2. And fitted Dunlop air suspension from Marcle Leisure bought over the internet and kit arrived in no time. There are some good instructions as well as photo records by others who have done it. You then supply SVTech with proof of purchase of the air suspension kit, pay their fee and they send you a new weight plate and letter to send with your V5 to DVLA for correction.

SVTech will do 3 for me free if I go back to them within 1 year as my tyres were not worn and I need to see if I can get some with the right weight rating when they need to be changed. I will need to look up the costs which I will do later. 

I am very pleased with both the air suspension having just done a 4 week tour in Europe. SVTech were first class and I am confident that I am now road legal weight wise!


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## Abacist

The cost of the Dunlop air suspension kit for my van was £371.13p and the fee from SVTech was £312 inc VAT in both cases.


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## Freddiebooks

Thank you Abacist for taking the time to write that very informative and easy to understand procedure . 

I e mailed sv yesterday (Sunday) and by 10am this morning they had sent me a reply telling me what to do next . Not bad I thought.


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## Abacist

The photo record of the air suspension installation is on the internet and possibly on a motorhome forum but I can't find it at the moment.

As and when I do I will let you know.

There is one on here in the Guides section called Retro fitting air suspension but it is not the Dunlop kit so is a bit different.

I have to say that I chose the simplest kit with no in cab pressure gauges which can add a lot to the price. Mine just has a schrader tyre valve for each side which you pump up to just over 4 bar which is the pressure that works for me.


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## Bill_OR

Abacist,
Perhaps a daft question but when you changed the tyres, did you replace just the rear tyres or all 5?

Thanks,
Bill

P.S. Sorry - just realised that you haven't replaced the tyres yet so let me change it to how many tyres will you replace?


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## Abacist

The issue of the tyres has not yet been addressed. SVTech say that the weight rating should be at least 118 compared to the current Continental Camper tyres which are 116. 

I am told that I can get van tyres of the right rating but would prefer motorhome tyres but don't know if these are made in the right size and weight rating.

If I change the tyres I would want them all the same for simplicity.

The other significant factor is that I have no idea of the cost yet until I need to research the tyres in more depth. Clearly I have no intention of leaping into the dark on this.

I am not in a position to comment further yet until I get around to needing new tyres which will be in the next 12 months.


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## Abacist

The issue of the tyres has not yet been addressed. SVTech say that the weight rating should be at least 118 compared to the current Continental Camper tyres which are 116. 

I am told that I can get van tyres of the right rating but would prefer motorhome tyres but don't know if these are made in the right size and weight rating.

If I change the tyres I would want them all the same for simplicity.

The other significant factor is that I have no idea of the cost yet until I need to research the tyres in more depth. Clearly I have no intention of leaping into the dark on this.

I am not in a position to comment further yet until I get around to needing new tyres which will be in the next 12 months.


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## Bill_OR

Abacist,

I now have my response from SVTech. Same options as yours.

I'm now planning on tackling the Dunlop air suspension myself but would appreciate knowing where you terminated the air lines. In the garage? If so, how did you route the pipes? Did you drill the floor?

Thanks,
Bill


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## Abacist

Hi Bill

Many choose to have gauges so they are mounted in the cab.

Whilst I did not have gauges I chose to run them up to the front partly in case I ever chose to add gauges later but also because I could mount the 2 schrader valves under the cab door making them easily accessible when at at petrol station filling up the tyres and suspension with air.

Abacist


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