# motorhomestopover



## 104722

first of all let me introduce myself. my name is kevin bird and i live in seaton burn which is up in newcastle upon tyne. i am the founder of motorhomestopover. i will try and explain some of the main ideas to you all. first of all the web site that you are looking at is only for registration and the member site will look totally different. at the moment we have aproximatley 150 stopovers up and down the country, most of these sites are in rural and tourist areas, we are still recruiting sites and we will continue to do so. the main idea is that a member with a membership card can stay for one night absolutely free at all of the sites listed, if you want to stay for extra nights you must ask the landlord for permision, some landlords will charge £5 per extra night but some will not charge at all if you have a drink or something to eat at the pub.the database will tell you the location, length of vehicle, how many vehicles he can hold , shops near by,dog walks near by.and if they have electricity on site. electricity will be a donation of (£2.50) per night. the main difference with this site is you will have a face and a telephone number to talk to as well as a forum for members to post there items. i hope this answers most questions and i hope to meet people at the peterbourough show at the end of the month(im in the arve bit) if you have any further questions the please email the site and i will try to answer them. the site will be opening in aproximatley two weeks time... kevin


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## hilldweller

>> electricity will be chargable (£2.50) per night. 

Well there's a good start, that is illegal.


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## 104722

hilldweller said:


> >> electricity will be chargable (£2.50) per night.
> 
> Well there's a good start, that is illegal.


wouldn't it be nice if people would understand what you are trying to do instead of presuming. kevin


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## Telbell

Are you sure? I know that sites aren't allowed to make a profit on leccy used. Perhaps they're going to use meters?


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## 104722

Telbell said:


> Are you sure? I know that sites aren't allowed to make a profit on leccy used. Perhaps they're going to use meters?


electricity is for emergency and not for any other reason. how many car parks have you been in where there is electricity? none. if you have flat bateries and need power then the landlord can provide emergency power. you are staying on his car park for free


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## olley

Flipping marvelous, bloke tries to do something for the benefit for all of us, and all he gets is people picking holes in it.

£2.50 a night for leccy, sounds like a bargin, don't like it? don't have leccy. Great idea Kev.

Olley


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## cabby

Sorry Kevin, but one has to presume unless the details are fully laid out.This does seem a good idea and am looking forward to getting more information.

cabby


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## peejay

150 on the books already - thats a great start.

Good luck with it Kevin, I think it's a brilliant idea.

pete


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## Rapide561

*Motorhome stopover*

Kevin - welcome to the site - the stop over idea is the sort of thing many of us are looking for.

I do not know the law re the electricity - but if it is illegal - and I am not saying it is, then how about doing what Stellios from EasyJet did a few years ago?

Basically, EasyJet had advertised flights from Switzerland but there was some kind of foul up and EasyJet were allowed to fly but not charge. EasyJet refunded the fairs at the airport, but once the clients were on board the aircraft, they were asked to make a donation! I don't know if that is legal either.

Just for the record, if there was such a parking place within striking distance of the ports, it would be fabulous. I would certainly hand over £2.50 for electric.

Russell


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## Mandi

Hi Kevin,

Would you just clarify. Is this a database of pubs where you can stopover or does it include non pub type places. If so lovely idea.

Regards.


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## viator

hilldweller said:


> >> electricity will be chargable (£2.50) per night.
> 
> Well there's a good start, that is illegal.


Hi Kevin,
It was me who emailed you today suggesting you sign up to our website. You will get positive support from the majority of members, the nitpickers and carpers are thankfully in the minority, again good luck.

Eddie


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## max123

I too think its a cracking idea, like the French Aires but with beer and food on tap.
Max


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## chapter

hi just checked out your site see here i wish you the best of luck 
chapter


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## bognormike

excellent; hope it gets off the ground. It would give pubs & other locations an additional income in what is a difficult time for them; best of luck


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## johnandcharlie

I'm certainly interested. The way beer prices are going though, it will soon be cheaper to stay on a camp site :lol:


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## Telbell

> bloke tries to do something for the benefit for all of us, and all he gets is people picking holes in it.


"people"??..hope that doesn't include me- all I did was query hildewellers comment that it was illegal.

However-I agree with cabby in that some clarification is needed. In his original post Kevin said [quote if they have electricity *on site.* electricity will be chargable (£2.50) [/quote]
but also says


> how many car parks have you been in where there is electricity? none. if you have flat bateries and need power then the landlord can provide emergency power. you are staying on his car park for free


So are we to assume that in normal circumstances noo electricity will be supplied but if it's need for (eg) a flat battery it'll be £2.50.??

(and this isn't knocking a good basic concept-just clarifying :wink: )


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## Spacerunner

I emailed my interest yesterday. I think we should all get behind this one. After all it embodies the whole idea of touring in a motorhome. And if I want to donate £2.50 for power, then I will, its my money and my ooman rite to put my cash where I please!


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## Telbell

> I want to donate £2.50 for power


But there won't be any according to Kevin's later Post...that's what needs clarifying at some stage


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## carolgavin

I like this idea  Am presuming all the details will be available onsite when it goes live. Good luck with it.


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## nukeadmin

could you clarify Kevin, how much it will cost to join motorhomestopover properly as a subscriber as it states this on your site "With the motorhomestopover club you will only pay a yearly subscription and the first night is free" ??


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## Polo

*Wil campingspots/MH Friendly m/h parking*

Hi Kevin. Its a a great idea and one we will subscribe too. Keep the forum up to date and I'm sure you will have a great take up. We have in the past used a pub car park near York. There was a charge per night but it was great to be able to enjoy good food and company and then a few steps into our comfy van.


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## Alemo

Hi Kevin,

This is excellent, I have registered my interest on your site and look forward to it being on line for membership.

I'm sure you will get more positive feedback than negative.

This is just what motor home people need.

Good luck, live long and prosper.

Alec


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## savannah

Hi Kevin,
Have had your site bookmarked for a few weeks now.....eagerly looking forward to more details........I do occasionally come over to "motorhome unfriendly UK" and think your idea is great and hope you manage to get it all organized to everyones satisfaction......bearing in mind that 'some' people are NEVER satisfied......but, hey......you're a GEORDIE.....just like ME......so it would take more than a few adverse comments to put you off...........its a great idea in principle, hope it all works out in reality.
GOOD LUCK

Lynda


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## mikeyv

Sounds good to me, even if it's not your cup of tea, more choice and competition can only be a good thing. Might even moderate some of the greedier sites - I see mention on another thread of 40 and 50 quid a night sites, crazy money in my view. Best of luck Kevin.


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## Zebedee

mikeyv said:


> Sounds good to me, even if it's not your cup of tea, more choice and competition can only be a good thing.Best of luck Kevin.


Can't argue there Mikeyv.

I'm up for it too. There's a good pub near us which has been doing it for years, and it always seemed a great idea to me, especially now the drink/drive laws are (_quite justifiably_) so draconian.

Hope it succeeds in a big way. Cheers


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## Telbell

> one we will subscribe too


What-whatever the cost???

I repeat- I think the concept is great but:
a)As someone posted on the other thread relating to this, the annual subs must reflect the facilities provided (minimal) it would be no good trying to justify, for example, a £30 annual fee on the grounds that the "Clubs" charge £35- a fair comparison has to be made. Trouble is no-one knows how much will be charged

b) Let's not fall into the trap that someone is doing this out of the goodness of their heart! "Someone" is going to make a lot of dough out of this... in return for??? Membership card?? In addition to any membership paid by m/homers, presumably the pub owners will have to pay some fee...in the hope that m/homers will stay more than one night and spend some cash on their premises

I'd have thought that by now the fine details would have been decided upon relating to Fees for Pub owners, Fees for m/homers, whether or not there's leccy

I'd be happy to pay, say a token fiver for annual membership, but any more than that and I'll be sticking to the current practice of asking the pub owner if we can stay "on spec" (having spent a couple of quid of course!) in the car park


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## 108526

Sounds good to me Kevin, How much to join?, when can we join?


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## geordie01

£2.50 for leccy illegal ok .£2.50 to stop overnight leccy free hows that.
l


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## 104722

geordie01 said:


> £2.50 for leccy illegal ok .£2.50 to stop overnight leccy free hows that.
> l


HELO GEORDI01 i seem to have caused a little stir, you are right of course. the whole point is that if someone is in trouble and needs power then some places can provide it. the publican is not paying anyone and should not give away things for free. hope to see you on the other side , kevin


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## jams101

max123 said:


> I too think its a cracking idea, like the French Aires but with beer and food on tap.
> Max


Oh damn it, have they stopped selling beer and food in France...

Great idea kevin, don't mind some of the people on here they have no friends and it is easy to see why....

We already have something like this here in Ireland, organised by www.motorcaravanclub.net, they keep the locations close to their chest members only for good reasons......


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## 106863

*www.motorhomestopover.co.uk*

HI i will join when i am able to those who moan at the leccy price pay more on other sites.TO park up and have a drink and a meal and pay only that and stay a day or two must be better for us all.cant wait to join


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## geordie01

hope you get it up and running as i only live 6 miles from you and would definatley use the sites as we regulaly use aires in france. there is alot more positives than negatives in thr posts


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## Telbell

> the publican is not paying anyone and should not give away things for free.


But:


> member with a membership card can stay for one night absolutely free at all of the sites listed,


I'm as confused as ever. The sooner we get the full details, chapter and verse, rather than individual and confusing replies to individual Posters , the better.

So how about it Kevin? What's the cost? Per annum., Per first night? Per second night? For leccy?


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## Telbell

> TO park up and have a drink and a meal and pay only that and stay a day or two must be better for us all.cant wait to join


The experince of many of us on this Forum is that this is available anyway by just asking, and without the membership card or fee


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## johnandcharlie

Telbell said:


> The experince of many of us on this Forum is that this is available anyway by just asking, and without the membership card or fee


Just out of interest, what do you do if the landlord says no? If you can't find a pub that says yes, after driving round a strange area wasting diesel, and don't want to wild camp, where do you spend the night? It seems to me that a reliable list of pubs you can stay at is pretty useful, especially if you're dragging a trailer or a car around and can check beforehand that you can fit in, and manoeuvre in, the car park.


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## bigfoot

This is what we need someone with the initiarive and gumption to start this project. It could also be a lifesaver for some of the more rural pubs just as long as the idiots don't spoil it by their stupid behaviour.

I'M IN-GOOD STYLE!!!


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## sheringham

We are up for this... Going away in April but will be back for the summer and I hope by then that it will be up and running. Have bookmarked your site. Good luck

Ron


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## stevo

*electricity charges*

this chap is doing something good for drinkers. people who whinge about right and wrong ie: elec charges, go and stay on c.c. sites and abide by theire rules, i dont suppose they drink anyway


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## WSandME

Please don't take this as negative, but before buying my motorhome, I did substantial research on the legalities of where and when you could overnight.

From (aging and fallible) memory, I understood that for example a pub car park, a motorhome could overnight with the owner's permission, but limited to a number of nights per year (month?). In order to exceed this "allowance", I understood that planning permission would be required.

The allowance would be in total - not (eg) 6 nights for me, 6 nights for the next guy &c..

I, of course, would be very interested in this scheme, but I wouldn't want to compromise any landlord - could anyone allay my worries in this respect?

As it stands, I have often overnighted on _public_ roads, on the understanding that it would take the local responsible authority more effort than they're likely to expend to move me on, and that I don't inconvenience anyone other than a jobsworth.


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## androidGB

Not wishing to sound critical, but for something like this to be a success, all the details need to be worked out in advance so a clear proposition can be placed before the landlords and the punters.

What we have seen so far are some confusing messages.

I presume Kevin has posted on here at this relatively early stage in order to indicate to landlords the enthusiasm for this scheme, but clear details need to be available, if this is too avoid going the way of a lot of other good ideas.

Remember the pipeline card, over 200,000 signed up for that and nothing has happened.

Andrew Nomates


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## rowley

It is a great idea. I would not expect electrics on a pub car park, but if there was it obviously has to be paid for. To get around peoples concerns about illegalities then surely a suggested minimum donation could be made.
I wish you well with the project.


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## geraldandannie

As Kevin can see, there is a large amount of interest in this scheme.

However, it seems to be a fait accomplis - this scheme is going ahead, we've got loads of landlords signed up, presumably lots of potential clients registering their interest.

I think it would be beneficial if Kevin were to come back on here, and clarify the points raised. There are 22,000 plus registered members of MHF and, at the time of writing, 2,446 paying subscribers. This is a huge potential market of committed motorhomers, mostly UK-based, and I feel that we should have some specific answers to specific questions:

1. How much is the annual subscription going to be?
2. What's the definition of an 'emergency' that needs electric at £2.50? Is an emergency the ability to jump start our motorhome, in which case I would have thought a friendly landlord would supply this as a favour. No one is going to use £2.50's worth of electric to jump start an engine.
3. Have any possible planning restrictions been looked into? CLs and CSs need to be registered and have permission from the local authority. Would this be the case with pub stopovers?

*Please don't take this post as a sign of negativity - it's great to see someone trying to create the sort of facilities we clearly need in this country, with the escalating costs of 'recognised' sites and the dearth of available spaces as motorhoming and caravanning increase in popularity.*

Gerald


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## geraldandannie

geraldandannie said:


> 2. What's the definition of an 'emergency' that needs electric at £2.50?


Ah, I see you have edited your original post :: here :: to say that the electric is now subject to a _donation_ of £2.50 per night. Still not sure that you can state a figure for a donation, but no doubt this will be ironed out soon.

Gerald


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## androidGB

geraldandannie said:


> There are 22,000 plus registered members of MHF and, at the time of writing, 2,446 paying subscribers.


Interesting figures, appears that almost 90% want something for nothing.

This may also prove to be the case with this scheme, when the cost of the annual subscription is fixed.

Other points to consider are, will landlords who have joined up to the scheme turn away punters who were going to buy drinks and have meals, but are not members of the scheme?

Andrew


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## zulurita

Sounds like a very good idea and would be very interested if the annual subscription isn't too high. If it is too high people won't join I'm sure especially for those of us who spend a lot of time abroad.


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## WSandME

I just had another thought (Hmm, two this week, mustn't strain myself)
_If_ I were to offer EHU on my site, I might just make it free, on condition that you hired _my_ hookup cable, for an appropriate deposit, and a suitable daily fee - for the _cable_, you understand :~)

Of course, _I_ wouldn't be too fussed if you opted to pay the hire fee, but still use your own cable :~)


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## 104722

*reply from motorhomestopover*

what a mine field.
first of all the definition of stopover is a place to stay overnight and not for a fortnight. some landlords will allow you to stay for an extra night. one extra night. not for a fortnight. no planning permission required.
2. the subs will be £30.00 per annum
3. electricity is available on some sites for emergencies and some of the sites are registered camp sites and therefore have proper electric points. the definition of emergency is flat battery or medical reason . a donation should be paid for the use of electric. im sure you would not allow me to pull up outside your house and plug my van in to your electric and not pay for my usage !!
4. none members will not be allowed to stay at these sites as the landlords want assurance that undesirables will not take up residence on their car park. each member will have a membership number and the landlord will record that number. this will allow him to have access to their details should the need arise. ie someone ran over his flowerbed or damaged his property
5. most of these sites are not camp sites, they are car parks. just like a motorway service area or sainsbury.
6. you can not have a bbq in the car park or put up your awning. its not a camp site.
My final word on the subject is. i have tried to be as honest as possible and if this idea does not appeal to you or you have doubts about the club, Don't Join. we all have the right to say no thank you.
kevin


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## hilldweller

*Re: reply from motorhomestopover*



kevinbird said:


> each member will have a membership number and the landlord will record that number. this will allow him to have access to their details should the need arise.


Well you've come to terms with the electricity sales - I was only trying to help.

Now you've just opened Pandora's box of The Data Protection Act and The Freedom of Information Act. Good luck with those two. I don't think there's any real problem for you as long as you comply with the acts.


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## 108526

yes please, as soon as poss


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## 104722

*Re: reply from motorhomestopover*



hilldweller said:


> kevinbird said:
> 
> 
> 
> each member will have a membership number and the landlord will record that number. this will allow him to have access to their details should the need arise.
> 
> 
> 
> Well you've come to terms with the electricity sales - I was only trying to help.
> 
> Now you've just opened Pandora's box of The Data Protection Act and The Freedom of Information Act. Good luck with those two. I don't think there's any real problem for you as long as you comply with the acts.
Click to expand...

all legal aspects are sorted


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## blackbirdbiker

Count me in....good idea.

Keith


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## 108526

On a serious note...when do you think it will be up and running Kev


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## 104722

Zoe68 said:


> On a serious note...when do you think it will be up and running Kev


web design say middle of april my friend


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## Telbell

That's interesting-as well as apparently being an rv-er, Kevin is a Pub Licensee. See 
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/mobile_article.aspx?articleid=56491&categoryid=9001

"Newcastle licensee Kevin Bird saw takings surge after recommending that fellow motorhome owners stay at his pub "

Nothing wrong in that of course, but as I said before, "someone" will be making a bob or two, especially if there';s some sort of membership fee.

Andrew/Gerald: you've both agreed (again to support my point) that there are confusing messages.

Gerald's Post (far more eloquent than mine :lol: ) sums it all up

WE NEED MORE INFORMATION before people come on and say "I'm all for it-I'll subscribe"


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## 108526

Give em a nudge and tell em to hurry, or we'll miss the Bank Hols


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## androidGB

*Re: reply from motorhomestopover*



kevinbird said:


> 4. non members will not be allowed to stay at these sites as the landlords want assurance that undesirables will not take up residence on their car park. each member will have a membership number and the landlord will record that number. this will allow him to have access to their details should the need arise. ie someone ran over his flowerbed or damaged his property
> 
> kevin


I know I'm sounding negative but I see a problem in this model.

As Kevin says there are over 200,000 motorhomes, and for instance just over 1% are paid subscribers to this forum.

Bearing in mind the proposed subscription is 3 times the price, He will do well in my opinion to attract a similar number.

A landlord who signs up to the scheme is potentially turning away 99% of the motorhome fraternity in order to attract 1%

I may be wrong, but what I suspect would happen is that in a short period of time a "blind eye" would be turned to the membership requirement, and we would then have what have today; landlords allowing the use of the car parks in return for the purchase of food and drinks, in fact exactly as Kevin is currently doing

Andrew


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## Duadua

Kevin

I note a picture of an RV on your web site, which is a welcoming sign for RV'ers.

I also note however that your request for details to be filled in by pub landlords, "_*What length of vehicle can you have on site*_", only offers a range of sizes upto 35 foot, which is probably not as long as your photo of an American RV and not as long as are some RVs here.

It might be an idea to increase the range of lengths upto 12 metres, so that we might also find welcoming landlords.

Just an idea,

Best of luck

Duadua.


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## Zebedee

Hi Andrew

I don't think that's being negative. 

Much as I would like to see any additional services, and reap the benefit of increased competition (_God, I sound like a Thatcherite! 8O 8O :roll: :roll:_ ) I fear your anaylsis is probably pretty accurate.

I'm not sure I would pay £30 per year for the occasional one-nighter, however pleasant and welcoming the cosy pub fire might be.

Kevin's decision of course, but I would have to agree with you that he is likely to get many more takers with a lower subscription fee.

100 tenners is better than 25 x £30 purely from the subscription standpoint - then there are the 100 dedicated and hungry boozers (plus families) who won't have to drive home.

Hmmmm. Hope I'm not sounding negative either, but to me the "stack 'em high" philosophy is more likely to succeed.

Cheers


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## 104722

a site that states 35foot can acomodate larger. you can ring the owner to make sure


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## bigfoot

If you are afraid don't do it 
If you do it, don't be afraid 

Mongolian Proverb 
Nuff saud!!


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## grouch

OK so I am a Grouch.

I think £30.00 a year is astronomical as you will obviously be paying for food and drink in said pub and most landlords are only too happy to accommodate you for nothing if you spend with them. Also what about noise. Comings and goings of pub punters etc.

Just a thought. What about insurance? Private car park, what happens if there is a shunt?


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## 101703

Kevin this is a great idea and something I would join at £30 and use often.

If you need any help in setting this venture up please get in touch, I have a background in publishing and marketing and would be happy to help.


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## Telbell

[/quote] If you are afraid don't do it 
If you do it, don't be afraid

Mongolian Proverb 
Nuff saud!!


> ...
> 
> but don't do it if you don't know enough about it!
> 
> Bromsgrovian Proverb
> 
> More than eneuff said!
> 
> (Till we get some more info from Kevin -the -Pub -Landlord-who-forgot-to-tell-us-that-in-his-intro-post)
> 
> 
> 
> Ihave tried to be as honest as possible
Click to expand...


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## Alfa_Scud

I may be wrong (I usually am!!), but there seem to be quite a few people on here who sing the praises of schemes such as France Passion, which provides exactly the service that is being offered here.

But now it is being offered here, all of a sudden it seems to be fraught with problems - what's going on?

Yes, the scheme is more expensive than France Passion (pounds for Euros I think), but it is a scheme that's being offered on a membership basis, if you don't like it - don't join. 

A few people seem to be saying things like "if you ask & you're eating there, the landlord will let you stop anyway". Yes he might, but he probably wouldn't if you weren't spending your brass there. This scheme doesn't dictate you HAVE to eat/drink in the pub - it just might be that the pub is in a very convenient stop for an overnight & better than a motorway etc. You can just pull up & stop there, drink your own wine/beer & cook your own food. If you did that without being a member of the scheme, the landlord would quite justifiably be banging on the side of your van asking you to shift!

As I said, it seems to be similar to France Passion i.e. you MAY wish to partake in the wares being offered but it is NOT obligatory, you can turn up, sleep & move on again if you wish.


At least that's the way I read it - Hope I'm right


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## RichardnGill

We are intrested especially if some of the pubs are sutable for kids?( 12 & 15 years)

But I have to agree £30 does seem expensive. The take up will be far greater if it was £10 or £15.


Richard...


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## Telbell

> you MAY wish to partake in the wares being offered but it is NOT obligatory


That's not what I read into the newspaper article I posted earlier. If people don't spend a few quid I can't see many pub landlords keeping it on.

France Passion is all about foreign culture, countryside, seeing how wine etc is grown and sampling. I think this all about what it says on the (Morning Advertiser) tin: making a few quid for the publicans....and where does the £30 quid subs go??


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## grouch

At least with French Passion you do not stay in a noisy car park or perhaps these pubs have additional space to park in away from the masses.


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## Alfa_Scud

Kevin Bird said:


> Motorhome users and caravans save at least £15 to £30 per night by staying at pubs, and are happy to spend money at the pubs where they stay.
> 
> "Plenty of pubs out in the sticks could really benefit from this idea."


I take it this is the line you mean Tellbell? I read it as meaning people are happy to _choose_ to spend money in there, rather then being happy _at being forced as part of the scheme_ to spend money there.

France Passion is only about foreign culture etc. if you're Foreign - if you're a Frenchman on his hols, it's about stopping somewhere for free!  which is basically what these schemes boil down to - they play the odds that many people who stop will use the facilities In the case of France Passion, it would be buying wine & produce that, I would guess in many circumstances, you would get cheaper in the local market or Auchan.

But you pays your money & takes your choice - I'm just trying to be fair in my viewpoint, not sure whether I'd join or not (either scheme) as I have only had the van 4 weeks anyway!


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## geraldandannie

France Passion - €28 (about £22), organisation in existance since 1992, 840 places to choose from, and since 1993 have had 500,000 stopovers in total.

UK Stopovers - £30, in existance ??, about 150 places to stay so far.

For me, it would make more sense to start small - say, a £10 or even £5 subscription fee, or even 3 months free to start before requesting the £30 fee. Aim to break even or even run at a slight loss for the first year, get some people doing it, reporting back on here, good publicity, personal recommendations, etc etc. To hit people with a £30 fee when no one's heard of it is a bit steep, in my opinion. How about an introductory offer of £5 for 6 months exclusive to MHF members?

I wish you well with this business venture, it sounds a really good idea.

Gerald


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## Telbell

Hi Chris: "The Line I take" is that when people introduce such an idea they should be really honest and up front with their motives. 

I've just read and re-read all the posts on the two threads relating to this. There's no doubt that the strong inference originally made is that the scheme was planned in order to provide welcome parking/resting facilities for free or a minimum cost in return for someone having a drink and/or meal in the pub. In other words, formalising what is already done on an informal basis to a fair extent. I wouldn't argue against someone charging a modest and toekn fee for expenses in running the system

Looking more careully however, it is obvious that this is seen as a lucrative business proposition by the Founder and, he is hoping to encourage his landlord colleagues that this is so. The fact that there will be a charge of £30 per annum supports this contention. I'd still be interested to hear what the justification is for, say, an annual income of £30000 (at 1000 subscribers)...you could do an awful lot of "administering the system" roll: ) for that. Even half those numbers is a nice little earner.

Where Kevin gets his "savings of £15 to £30 per night for m/homers" from I'm not sure. Even a CL with electrics wouldn't be as much as £15...and remember with the "Big" clubs (even at £33/£35 membership) there are far more potential advantages than the "Pub Stopover Club"

I'd have been far more sympathetic to kevin's idea if he had been up front from the start by declaring his interest as a Pub Landlord, stating he had a great idea as a lucrative business proposition which motorhomers could also gain from.

Nor am I still sure about the legalities of this, Planning Legislation wise, otherwise I'm sure other outlets (garden centres come to mind) would have gone down that business route. Wouldn't the pub car park become a "caravan site" and subject to Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act ?? Not my problem though. Obviously Kevin is confident he's covered.

Anyway- I'm happy with the current "informal" system and will take the risk of being turned away by a pub for not having a membership card.

As they say in "the Den"..."I'm Out" :lol:


----------



## Auchmill

Some people on this thread can't have anything better to do with their time. The ones who don't like the idea and go on and on and on....about it ad nauseum. 

I don't think it's compulsory to join, or am I wrong?


----------



## androidGB

Auchmill said:


> Some people on this thread can't have anything better to do with their time. The ones who don't like the idea and go on and on and on....about it ad nauseum.
> 
> I don't think it's compulsory to join, or am I wrong?


So if our views differ from yours, we're supposed to shut up.

That's not particularly democratic.

The reason I posted was that I'd seen a great deal of enthusiasm by a number of people, and wished to put my thoughts on why I don't think it will work, before people get carried away.

Andrew


----------



## Mikemoss

Well said Auchmill, and I totally agree with AlfaScud too - this is a great idea, just what people have been saying has been wanted in the UK, so let's not argue about whether it's £5 or £50 to join: either way it's a darn sight less than half a tank of diesel for a vehicle that will probably have cost at least a five-figure sum to buy in the first place.

Pub stopovers seem far more appealing to me than Aires, so bring it on please Kevin, and good luck to you.


----------



## Auchmill

No AndroidGB, it's nothing to do with disagreeing. I believe in freedom of speech, but some who are against this are getting a bit boring. That's all. If someone wants to bore the pants off everybody else then that's their perogerative, but I think I'm entitled to say so.


----------



## androidGB

Auchmill, in all honesty I do not find the varying points of view boring, people are flagging various potential problems and hopefully this will be useful to Kevin.

I think most of us agree that it would be good if it goes forward, whether or not we intend to use them, as it will one step forward to relaxing our ludicrous regulations.

If I've bored anyone I apologise



Andrew


PS I don't know if Carol is around but it would be good to have her take on this, as you may be aware she tried to start "British Passion" last year. Which was a similar idea but she obviously couldn't get it off the groud


----------



## Duadua

Further background:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-356173.html#356173

and

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2852


----------



## Telbell

I knew I'd seen it somewhere!
http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=117
Not quite the same I know but campsites at or within 100 yds of a pub........probably better facilities than a pub car park....and without an "extortionate annual fee :wink:


----------



## 93716

for christs sake leave the thread alone telbell if you not interested in the idea go read something else


----------



## bigfoot

JoeD said:


> for christs sake leave the thread alone telbell if you not interested in the idea go read something else


HEAR,HEAR stop wasting cyberspace!!


----------



## hippypair

Telbell said:


> I knew I'd seen it somewhere!
> http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=117
> Not quite the same I know but campsites at or within 100 yds of a pub........probably better facilities than a pub car park....and without an "extortionate annual fee :wink:


 

Thanks for that link,I agree it seems a better proposition than paying £30 to stay in a pub car park.

Terry.


----------



## Briarose

Hi I haven't read all of the posts (just about to) but I think this is a really great idea, I have just PM you as our local landlord said he put his name forward at least 2 months ago and hasn't heard anything back.


----------



## Telbell

> Thanks for that link,I agree it seems a better proposition than paying £30 to stay in a pub car park.


...and thanks for those kind words Terry-glad the link was appreciated :wink:


----------



## johnandcharlie

Just picked one site from UK Campsite that could be useful to me, and it's £8 a night plus £2 per person. There's no point staying at a pub if you're not going to use the facilities, so add food and drinks to that. If I stayed there for 3 nights that would have covered the annual subscription to Motorhome Stopover. For £30 a year I could spend 365 nights in pub car parks for nothing if I moved on every day. The facilities might not be as good, but I'd save £3650 in pitch fees, although I'd buy a lot more beer :lol:. You only have to spend 4 nights a year in car parks to be in profit.


----------



## 93716

good to see someone can do there maths


----------



## Telbell

> Just picked one site from UK Campsite that could be useful to me,


Doesn't take much skill for someone to selectively quote an example which may be useful to try and prove their point.

Even I can do it too-Just found a couple which are £5 per night or less for 2 adults-not as much pressure to buy at the pub either as they are sites in their own right.



> could spend 365 nights in pub car parks for nothing if I moved on every day.


What some people will do to get their money's worth! :lol:


----------



## gaspode

OK, so you pays your £30 and set out to enjoy a few nights in various pub car parks for free. You've already paid the subs and have the entitlement to the free stays so no point buying a meal, may as well knock up a nice curry then sit around in the van watching TV and downing the odd bottle of wine.

Oh yes - I can just see the landlords face as he watches you scoffing your dinner. 8) 

If it happens often then the scheme won't last long, there's only one thing they're after - your money. Who can blame them, that's what they are in business for. Far better to keep the whole thing casual in my opinion, trying to organise, standardise and control it too closely just won't work. The publican who sees free campers eating and drinking in the van won't put up with it for long and I can just see them turning punters away because they don't belong to the "club". Nice idea but not properly thought through.


----------



## androidGB

gaspode said:


> Far better to keep the whole thing casual in my opinion, trying to organise, standardise and control it too closely just won't work. The publican who sees free campers eating and drinking in the van won't put up with it for long and I can just see them turning punters away because they don't belong to the "club". Nice idea but not properly thought through.


Exactly the points I have been making, and the strange thing is that Kevin has demonstrated that the informal approach works as by his own admission he is doing an additional £1000 of "motorhome trade" a week off the back of and including posting invitations to motorhomers on forums similar to this one.

I'm sure all landlords who were interested in offering a facility would be well advised to subscribe to this forum introduce themselves and their pubs, probably the best £10 they'll spend.

Andrew


----------



## 101703

If all the landlords in the UK who can, and are happy to except motorhomes would subscibe to this forum that would be great!

...but its not going to happen is it.

I agree Kevins system needs a little tuning, but the idea is sound. The casual approach works well if you can plan where you are going to be well before you need to be there, or know about a pub that can accommodate prior to arriving. The point of this system (as far as I can see) is that you would have access, with contact details, to a whole network of pubs offering this service accross the UK. 

Last year I spent 6 nights in total in motorway service stations. I used the services as I was travelling long distances (I go to Ireland often) and needed somewhere to crash out for a while, eat and get some sleep. If I had access to a database of pubs I could stay at, get a meal, have a pint then crash my journey would be much more pleasurable.

I dont understand why Kevin is getting so many negative comments. If you dont like the idea and woudnt use it anyway fine, why go on about it?

If you like the idea and would use it, but think £30 is to much money or have other concerns why not put your ideas to make it work to Kevin?

Surely this would be more constructive.


----------



## Telbell

> I dont understand why Kevin is getting so many negative comments


Don't you? Really?

I think it's because:
a)He was less than honest when he first Posted about the idea....and to some extent exacerbated that by hiding behind "edits"

b) He is charging far too much for "membership" (not just my opinion but the view of quite a few Posters here)

c) Despite being invited to do so he hasn't come on the Forum and explained his rationale for such a charge, and what he's doing with all this income.

He's a publican-he's in it for profit-for all we know he may be sharing all the income with his Publican colleagues. Fine if he wants to do that but he should be up front rather than imply he's the next best thing in "Philanthropy for Motorhomers"

And for those who are interested in using the system but feel his cahrges are too high-tell him that on his website!


----------



## 101703

Telbell said:


> I dont understand why Kevin is getting so many negative comments
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you? Really?
> 
> I think it's because:
> a)He was less than honest when he first Posted about the idea....and to some extent exacerbated that by hiding behind "edits"
> 
> b) He is charging far too much for "membership" (not just my opinion but the view of quite a few Posters here)
> 
> c) Despite being invited to do so he hasn't come on the Forum and explained his rationale for such a charge, and what he's doing with all this income.
> 
> He's a publican-he's in it for profit-for all we know he may be sharing all the income with his Publican colleagues. Fine if he wants to do that but he should be up front rather than imply he's the next best thing in "Philanthropy for Motorhomers"
> 
> And for those who are interested in using the system but feel his cahrges are too high-tell him that on his website!
Click to expand...

My best guess would be Kevin has had a good idea but hasn't thought all of the aspects through to make it work well. A service like this would not be that simple to set up, especially if you had never attempted any similar system.

For what its worth I agree £30 is to much, simply because it will put alot of people off from using the service and to work well and keep interest from landlords it needs people using it.

The problem I have is that since the onslaught Kevin hasn't posted. What was an opportunity to help someone launch a system that could benefit many of us might not be anymore.

Out of interest, would you use a pub car park as a stopping over point if you were happy with the way the service was run? If you would use such a service what would you want from it and be happy to pay?


----------



## androidGB

david3003 said:


> If all the landlords in the UK who can, and are happy to except motorhomes would subscibe to this forum that would be great!
> 
> ...but its not going to happen is it.


No, it's not, in exactly the same way that all the landlords who can accept motorhomes are going to join up to this scheme, putting themselves in a position where the would have to turn away a huge percentage of non membership but potentially highly profitable motorhome trade.

Also there is a big difference between being negative to being realistic.

I personally don't care if £30 is the right ammount, because I believe an awful lot of people will not subscribe until there is a significant database.

I know a lot of people want this facility, and an initiative that would work is if Dave were to offer 1 years free membership to all members who got 2 landlords to sign up. Thats a WIN WIN solution

Andrew


----------



## geraldandannie

david3003 said:


> The problem I have is that since the onslaught Kevin hasn't posted. What was an opportunity to help someone launch a system that could benefit many of us might not be anymore.


Oh come come, hardly an onslaught. He announced a business opportunity, and people asked questions.

If I were to announce I'd built a brilliant new panel van conversion, I'd expect people to ask questions. What does it look like? How many people does it sleep? Say then I posted a floorplan, and people said "according to your floorplan, you can't open the bathroom door because it fouls on the cooker". What should I do? Get 'the hump' because people had made a negative comment? What if I then said "I've read the comments, and all I can say is that it works, and it costs £85,000". Would I expect the orders to flood in? Or would I expect people to say "ouch, that's expensive, for something that's unproven."

I have been involved in a lot of product design over the years, and I have always welcomed feedback from people who I want to buy the things. Sometimes it hurts, especially if you've invested tens of thousands of pounds into something. But as a designer, you have to accept the negative criticism, and be prepared to either redesign the product, or offer an inducement to a customer / client to take the initial 'development prototype', and work with them to iron out the bugs.

The reason for the quantity of comments is that nearly everyone thinks that, in concept, this is an excellent idea. The frustrating thing is that we can see flaws (not the least of which is the high entry price for people who might not use the service that much initially), and now the inventor of the system has declined to work with us to iron out the bugs, or offer an inducement.

Gerald


----------



## androidGB

geraldandannie said:


> I have been involved in a lot of product design over the years, and I have always welcomed feedback from people who I want to buy the things. Sometimes it hurts, especially if you've invested tens of thousands of pounds into something. But as a designer, you have to accept the negative criticism, and be prepared to either redesign the product, or offer an inducement to a customer / client to take the initial 'development prototype', and work with them to iron out the bugs.
> 
> Gerald


Nail on the head stuff there Gerald.

Couple of pertinent points, everybody talks about this being a good idea as though it was Kevin's, a number of people have tried to do similar things with little or no success.

Part of the problem with these "ideas", is that the barrier to entry is so low You can knock up a website, post on a few forums and convince a lot of people that you have a well thought out, carefully researched and costed business model.

As you have said, when many tens of thousands have first to be invested the thought processes tend to be deeper.

Andrew


----------



## Telbell

> Out of interest, would you use a pub car park as a stopping over point if you were happy with the way the service was run? If you would use such a service what would you want from it and be happy to pay?


Hi David- On the assumpotion the question is addressed to me:

I think I've covered this in previous posts and in summary I'd just repeat what's been suggested in more recent comments ie-for me "keep it casual". I wouldn't be too happy to make a detour in order to specifically locate a Pub which is in the "sytem", and armed with my membership card, find there's already a Motorhome there (only one allowed by law) and have to turn around & find somewhere else to overnight.

On the other hand if we are out and about in the evening, come across a pub, have a meal or drink, don't fancy driving further (not necessarily because of the drink as both of us drive) & stay in the car park overnight with landlord's permission-different scenario.

It's only happened to us three times in five years and I don't envisage it happening any more than that in the next five. Incidentally on no occasion have we been charged.

Even setting aside the personal style and methodology of "the inventor" (as Gerald put it :lol: ) there are far too many imponderables, complications and unanswered queries-not least of which is the fact that the participating landlords will in effect have to agree to permanently reserve a parking space for a 35 ft RV "just in case"

So, for me- keep it simple and informal.


----------



## 101703

androidGB said:


> geraldandannie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been involved in a lot of product design over the years, and I have always welcomed feedback from people who I want to buy the things. Sometimes it hurts, especially if you've invested tens of thousands of pounds into something. But as a designer, you have to accept the negative criticism, and be prepared to either redesign the product, or offer an inducement to a customer / client to take the initial 'development prototype', and work with them to iron out the bugs.
> 
> Gerald
> 
> 
> 
> Nail on the head stuff there Gerald.
> 
> Couple of pertinent points, everybody talks about this being a good idea as though it was Kevin's, a number of people have tried to do similar things with little or no success.
> 
> Part of the problem with these "ideas", is that the barrier to entry is so low You can knock up a website, post on a few forums and convince a lot of people that you have a well thought out, carefully researched and costed business model.
> 
> As you have said, when many tens of thousands have first to be invested the thought processes tend to be deeper.
> 
> Andrew
Click to expand...

Both very valid opinions.

I didn't realise this idea had been tried before,I just like the idea and would like to see it up and running well. I think androidGB's idea of recommending a pub to the system and getting a years free membership is a great idea. This would get people and pubs using the system.

I also agree with the "barrier to entry" comment. I've launched database subscription services before for companies and its not as easy as it seams.


----------



## 101703

Telbell said:


> Out of interest, would you use a pub car park as a stopping over point if you were happy with the way the service was run? If you would use such a service what would you want from it and be happy to pay?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi David- On the assumpotion the question is addressed to me:
> 
> I think I've covered this in previous posts and in summary I'd just repeat what's been suggested in more recent comments ie-for me "keep it casual". I wouldn't be too happy to make a detour in order to specifically locate a Pub which is in the "sytem", and armed with my membership card, find there's already a Motorhome there (only one allowed by law) and have to turn around & find somewhere else to overnight.
> 
> On the other hand if we are out and about in the evening, come across a pub, have a meal or drink, don't fancy driving further (not necessarily because of the drink as both of us drive) & stay in the car park overnight with landlord's permission-different scenario.
> 
> It's only happened to us three times in five years and I don't envisage it happening any more than that in the next five. Incidentally on no occasion have we been charged.
> 
> Even setting aside the personal style and methodology of "the inventor" (as Gerald put it :lol: ) there are far too many imponderables, complications and unanswered queries-not least of which is the fact that the participating landlords will in effect have to agree to permanently reserve a parking space for a 35 ft RV "just in case"
> 
> So, for me- keep it simple and informal.
Click to expand...

I didn't realise that only one motorhome was allowed by law, thats a shame.

I agree with the "keep it simple" method.

It isn't practical for a landlord to keep a space free on the off chance that a motorhome will turn up, and getting to a pub to be turned away because the space is full or not available would not work either.

A book of motorhome friendly pubs with contact numbers etc so they could be phoned ahead would work better I think (properly thought out).

If I were launching this service I would go down this route. An online site could be set up easily, free membership for anyone reccomending a pub, getting at least one motorhome magazine to endorse the site to get advertising (in return having them on the stopover website), advertising on websites such as this in the same way.

After a year of pushing, a database should be fairly comprehensive, with plenty of pubs and subscribers in the system. Then, rather than charge for this service I would launch a annual directory book (after year one) listing all participating pubs and making it available in appropriate shops and websites should make the project a success (the sort of thing Cades do)

Thats off the top of my head, not thought through for more than five minutes and I don't have plans to do this.


----------



## androidGB

David3003, well that's at least two of us that think it's a good idea to try to get accomodating landlords to join the forum.

Not just two in fact three, as I posted my proposal to Nuke, and he's even bettered it.

He will offer a free 12 months membership or extension to anyone who gets just 1 landlord/publican offering overnight use of his car park in exchange for the purchase of goods to join our forum.

The landlord/publican will have all the benefits of membership, and Dave is also prepared to do a bit of coding, so that MHF sponsored pubs are moved to the top of the list of stopovers on the database.

This really seems to me to be a good initiative and if all members could find just one pub, we would have an impressive selection.

Nukes only concern is whether there are any legal issues as Practical Motorhome appeared to stop a similar scheme.

I'm off to Morocco on Monday so won't be able to follow any of this up, but if someone else wants to jump in a pick up the baton, please do.

Mods if you feel this would be better started off as a new thread, please do so.

Now I really must get on with sorting the van out for Monday 

Andrew


----------



## Telbell

Andrew-enjoy Morocco & keep in touch! 

Hmm-I still think there's dangers in trying to formalise a Pub Overnighting system but at least there are potential genuine benefits in your suggestion wiothout too much outlay for members.

So far as i understand the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, Planning Permission would be required for the car park if more than one Motorhome parked there. May be wrong though.

Good luck! (to whoever :wink: )


----------



## MaxandPaddy

Brilliant idea,good luck,we cannot wait to become a member!


----------



## Zebedee

Two further points to add to the brew.

Why is is necessary to charge for membership at all? The landlords will benefit from the extra custom as Kevin has already stated, quite handsomely by the sound of it. All that is really needed is a database so "members" know which pubs may have a parking slot for the night.

This leads neatly onto the second point. . . . .

If there is a membership scheme, and a member (_fully paid up to the tune of 30 quid as things stand_) arrives at a pub only to find the one legally available slot already occupied by a non-member - someone is not going to be a happy bunny.

Presumably members would expect to have priority, so what time of night is the cut-off point after which non-members can be allowed to stay? This has clearly not even been considered, and the landlord will quite obviously not want to turn away a non-member on the off-chance that a member happens to turn up later.

Enough said I think. The raft of possible problems are clear enough to imagine.

Keep it simple and informal - but with a database if possible so members or just motorhomers know which pubs *might *have an available slot for the night.

_(I presume the "one motorhome per night only" is in fact law. I haven't looked it up.)_

Cheers


----------



## bognormike

Are we presuming correctly about overnight parking in what after all is private land? We're not talking camping here (we assume that there's no provision to sit outside, set up the barbie etc), as on a CL at a pub, which is obviously controlled under the act; we're talklng parking a motorhome overnight. What's different than a car parking overnight in a pub car park, after the owner has "too much" & gets a taxi home? - apart from somebody sleeeping in the van?


----------



## Zebedee

bognormike said:


> Are we presuming correctly about overnight parking in what after all is private land? We're not talking camping here (we assume that there's no provision to sit outside, set up the barbie etc), as on a CL at a pub, which is obviously controlled under the act; we're talklng parking a motorhome overnight. What's different than a car parking overnight in a pub car park, after the owner has "too much" & gets a taxi home? - apart from somebody sleeeping in the van?


With a bit of luck Kevin will clarify that for us Mike, and a few of the other very sensible queries that have been raised.


----------



## geraldandannie

*Re: reply from motorhomestopover*

From an earlier post:



kevinbird said:


> some of the sites are registered camp sites


So not all of them will be camping on the car park jobs. So (and I presume here) at these places, you can still 'camp' for one night for free?

It would be interesting to see how many are registered campsites, and where the signed-up pubs are. Are they all in Kevin's home patch, where he might have used a local association to spread the word?

I really wish Kevin would come back on with more information, or do we have to pay £30 to find out more?

Gerald


----------



## androidGB

Zebedee said:


> If there is a membership scheme, and a member (_fully paid up to the tune of 30 quid as things stand_) arrives at a pub only to find the one legally available slot already occupied by a non-member - someone is not going to be a happy bunny.


That won't happen according to Kevin, as landlords who sign up to the scheme will not allow non members to stay.

Andrew


----------



## Telbell

> I presume the "one motorhome per night only" is in fact law. I haven't looked it up.)


OK- for a start-I'm not a solicitor or expert in caravan site law but I do have a fair amount of experience in researching and interpreting the law so the usual caveat applies; I may be wrong but I don't think I am :wink: 
If I am I'll come on and apologise!

I have examined the Act and its schedules and here's a synopsis:

The Caravan and Control of Development Act 1960 prohibits the use of land as a caravan site unless the occupier holds a site licence issued by the local authority.

There are some exceptions:

A caravan sited within the curtilage of a dwelling and its use is in connection with the dwelling. This means it cannot be occupied separately.

A *single caravan *sited for not more than two consecutive nights for a maximum of 28 days in any 12 months. _(my emphasis)_

Up to three caravans on a site of *not less than five acres *for a maximum of 28 days in any 12 months. _(again-my emphasis-I'm assuming here that not many pub car parks exceed 5 acres unless they are campsites themselves)_

Sites occupied by exempted organisations such as the Caravan Club

Sites of up to 5 caravans certified by an exempt organisation and which are for members only._.(so this covers CL's and CS's)_

Sites operated by the local authority. These are usually gypsy sites.

Sites for temporary and special purposes such as caravan rallies, agricultural and forestry workers, building and engineering sites and travelling salesmen.

A site for tents only can be used for a maximum of 28 days in any 12 months.

So- that's where I got my info from. Based upon the above only one 'van per night I believe.

Incidentally under the Schedule a pub car park with someone overnighting in a caravan would become a caravan site, as a caravan site is defined as :
"land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is stationed."

So under Kevin Bird's system the pub landlord, for the most part, wouild need a local Authorty Licence to have more than one 'van.

(Well you did ask :lol: )


----------



## Zebedee

androidGB said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a membership scheme, and a member (_fully paid up to the tune of 30 quid as things stand_) arrives at a pub only to find the one legally available slot already occupied by a non-member - someone is not going to be a happy bunny.
> 
> 
> 
> That won't happen according to Kevin, as landlords who sign up to the scheme will not allow non members to stay.
> Andrew
Click to expand...

Methinks you are as convinced about that as I am Andrew. :roll: :roll:

Is a landlord really going to turn away good custom just because a motorhomer hasn't paid his £30 to someone else? 8O 8O

Cheers


----------



## Zebedee

Didn't think you would have got it wrong Terry   , but the single caravan bit is rather crucial.

Would it be worth it for the landlord if he does have to jump through all those hoops to attract just one van per night?

Back to my earlier point (_more or less_) the second van to arrive in an evening may as well drive past without stopping. Not so good if he specifically intended to stay the night.

I still like the idea in principle, but have serious doubts that it would work very well.

Hmmmmm. Where's Kevin to answer these queries?


----------



## Telbell

> the second van to arrive in an evening may as well drive past without stopping. Not so good if he specifically intended to stay the night.


That's right Dave-a point I think I made earlier. Look at it also from the Publicans viewpoint-he'll have to keep a large space available just in case a 35 foot RV "member" wants to visit.



> Where's Kevin to answer these queries?


Busy with his calculator? or if he's any sense, having a word with his financial or legal advisor to see if it's all worth while


----------



## carol

viator said:


> [
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> It was me who emailed you today suggesting you sign up to our website. You will get positive support from the majority of members, the nitpickers and carpers are thankfully in the minority, again good luck.
> 
> Eddie


I have pondered shall I reply.... probably better not in some ways....

Yes people will knock it I know, been there tried it, I have emailed Kevin in the middle of February and made some enquiries.... he has said that it will be similar to France Passion, but obviously reading this post of a few days ago... I realise it isn't really.

The subject of electricity is a difficult one, and I do believe that it is illegal to sell electricity on if you make a profit...

The difficulty can come from the local councils, regional parks etc., but if it is a pub, then of course they do expect vehicles to stop, but not overnight, and it can get into fine details if people are found to be stopping for more than x amount of nights in a year..... IF people nearby complain....and there is always one.... but of course rural pubs will manage I would think quite easily.

I think Kevin, being a Landlord will be in a far better position than I was to get this off the ground.

If you think about it, France Passion was actually started by the vineyard owners in the South of France initially, having spare parking overnight.... and together they encouraged the other areas to join in, and of course in the last few years it has been opened up to farmers.....

This could work the same way. As I had emailed Kevin, I had spoken to Dealers, some landlords and some farmers and had even a theme park signed up for British Passion.... so it is possible.

I know from my own experience that he will have to check out the legality of it and that there should not be more than 5 motorhomes a night - or he will get into other areas which start causing problems.

I would stop on a pub car park overnight, but I wouldn't want to pay for that, yes have a drink or meal yes, but the actual stopping should be free.

If the electric is just for emergencies £2.50 to charge your batteries sounds a lot, why not just run your engine, or move off anyway...

My thoughts,

Carol


----------



## carol

androidGB said:


> Andrew
> PS I don't know if Carol is around but it would be good to have her take on this, as you may be aware she tried to start "British Passion" last year. Which was a similar idea but she obviously couldn't get it off the groud


Yes, well I am around, but have had my grandchildren staying for a few days, so missed the start of this, although I posted a little earlier my views. I had been in contact with Kevin about 5/6 weeks ago.... and pointed out some of the areas he may need to consider.

I see here a lot of the enthusiasm Dave and I had when we first mooted the idea of British Passion, and we were considering £20/£25 a year and the landlords would have paid I think it was £30 or £35 which helped to pay for the book/website with a forum/membership cards, arrows etc., for the landlords to use, stickers etc., so depending on how Kevin intends to do it there can be a substantial lot of overheads, but probably not so bad if it is all web based. We had even thought of producing a DVD of the places like the aires web site....but it did fail, but it was 3 years ago when it was first thought about, and it was just that at the time, a thought that progressed due to the ensuing enthusiasm on here and on the motorhome-list....

Maybe more are now ready for something, but I do think perhaps that £5 or £10 would be better to start with until he sees how it goes.

Carol

PS In the article I read in mid February, Kevin was boasting that he was making a mint from it....so if that was the case, why charge?

Carol


----------



## carol

JoeD said:


> for christs sake leave the thread alone telbell if you not interested in the idea go read something else


JoeD - Telbell is putting very valid points, whether you like it or not..

Carol


----------



## carol

androidGB said:


> Part of the problem with these "ideas", is that the barrier to entry is so low You can knock up a website, post on a few forums and convince a lot of people that you have a well thought out, carefully researched and costed business model.
> 
> As you have said, when many tens of thousands have first to be invested the thought processes tend to be deeper.
> 
> Andrew


Andrew, when I took the British Passion idea to the Business Link people here in North Devon, after a few meetings, I had to phone them and spoke to his colleague, who when I introduced myself, ah, the best proposition we have had for ages, really good idea....when I asked further, he says well lots come to them with the same sort of idea, but this was different and sounded very interesting....

Yes...well we thought it was too....so have others no doubt

Carol


----------



## Zebedee

Very interesting series of posts Carol.

We don't know why Kevin has gone quiet of course, and there could be a perfectly good reason - he might even be holidaying in Barbados on the profits he has made so far. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

His sudden silence does rather make one think however, and as you say, Telbell's (and many other people's) comments raise some very valid and useful issues that need clearing up before many of us would part with the hard-earned - even if it was only the tenner or less that you suggest. :? :?


----------



## Telbell

Hi Carol- Thanks for your Post


> there should not be more than 5 motorhomes a night


Only one I think- see my "lengthy" Post earlier. If it were five, can you imagine the reaction of the locals as they drive in to find 5 motorhomes in the car park??


> Kevin was boasting that he was making a mint from it....


Yes- I saw that-not a wise move from his perspective really :roll:

Somehow I just can't equate his proposed system with France Passion...this is probably me just being narrow-minded. I can't get my head round visualising a motorhome in a crowded car park compared with a picture of Rural France, motorhome parked up, and you're sitting outside with "Patron" in hot sunshine sampling his wine!


----------



## bigfoot

Telbell said:


> Somehow I just can't equate his proposed system with France Passion...this is probably me just being narrow-minded. I can't get my head round visualising a motorhome in a crowded car park compared with a picture of Rural France, motorhome parked up, and you're sitting outside with "Patron" in hot sunshine sampling his wine!


You have just summed it up "can't see it here" so why should it happen?


----------



## carol

At the risk of yet another post.... as I was late reading this long thread, and now have only just got there I will make a couple of other points re the latter posts I have read this morning.

1 BognorMike - re your point you couldn't see the difference between a motorhome and a car parked in the car park overnight - well SLEEPING in it is the difference - remember Council Car Parks, NO OVERNIGHT SLEEPING... I admit I see really no difference either, but the Law does...

2 GeraldandAnnie - Again as I understood it, if they are already a camp site, ie., CL or CS (or indeed a campsite) I believe you will HAVE to be a member of that club and pay their dues...no way around that....legally...turning a blind eye is always their option I suppose, but can you honestly see anyone saying, oh yes you can stop overnight for free, and then a genuine member turns up and wants a spot and he is going to turn away his night fee....No I can't

3 Telbell - again I think you have interpreted the law as I understood it after speaking to relevant Councils, Rural Parks etc., All it points to is that it is not FRANCE, we are much more into rules and enforce them, the French have found a way around it, and it works well for those that like to make use of FP when they travel. It still isn't a means of a holiday, but the stopovers are indeed very handy and enlightening as well, mainly in very off the beaten track places....

4 Zebedee - I can't see landlords keeping spaces for a motorhome that may turn up, and again would be turn a second away...and let's be fair we do take up a lot of space when we need to manoeuvre.

However, I know from our experience in France, that often you are not asked for your membership ID, yes you do have a window sticker for the year, and I suspect they do look for that, but what really concerned me, when I was staying on Holiday Sites in the summer I was trying to start British Passion, talking to people, exlplaining that the principal was the same as France Passion, overnight stop ONLY, not a campsite, no chairs, awnings, bbq's etc., that several people told me they LOANED their card to friends, they couldn't see the point in buying one each.

It made me realise that we would need to have photocards first and foremost....and again the cost goes up....

We are a nation of WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME.... don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see someone actually get it off the ground, but until we actually change mentality I can't see it happening..

WHY

I live 7 miles from Barnstaple, and about a week or so ago a lot of new age travellers turned up and have parked themselves on some council land down at Severn Brethren, and are asking to use the toilets and showers etc., of the Leisure Centre and Tennis Courts, as if it was their right..... whilst we have this to contend with NO COUNCIL is going to look favourably on the rest of us, wanting somewhere to stop overnight....

Carol


----------



## Telbell

> You have just summed it up "can't see it here" so why should it happen?


Was that intended to be sarcastic.? If so I suggest you have a good look at all the threads, especially from those members who've taken the time and trouble to come up with some some serious thought about the practicalities of both implementing the concept and taking part. A number of Posters have expressed their views in a serious and lucid manner. These include Carol who has experienced trying to implement the France Passion scheme.

My reference to F.P. was a direct follow on from Carol's comments and I was just expressing my personal views on a comparison between the two concepts. The fact that I personally find it difficult to compare the two as a Scheme has nothing to do with the fact that I have been one of quite a few on here who have identified serious flaws and difficulties in implementation and membership of Kevin Bird's idea, including the cost.

There were quite a few members in the early hours of this thread who were of the "yeah, bring it on, I'm all for it, great idea" fraternity. Others took a little time to think about it, ask a few questions and point out potential problems.

It's a shame that a minority in the first group felt it necessary to criticise the others merely for highlighting potential difficulties.

The wise person changes their mind sometimes- the fool, never.


----------



## 101703

Its a shame Kevin hasn't been back on here to try and iron out the flaws in his project. I hope that although not posting he has been reading the posts and will rework his system prior to launching it.

The idea is sound, it just needs a little rethinking. 

It looks like we will have to wait for this site to launch now to see if any changes have been made, if they haven't the system will fail (not least because of the amount of motorhome users in the UK that will have been reading this thread and agree with the posts)

If Kevin doesn't get his project up and running it might be a good idea for members from this site to get together and launch a system that will work, maybe towards the Autumn?

I would definitely like to see, and use this type of system and would be happy to help launch one.


----------



## bigfoot

Sarcasm is not intended. We seem to have varying opinions and the antis seem quite forceful. It just seems that an attitude prevails of depondancy for any initiative. I wish anyone luck with a new venture and wherever possible would support them. I was not singling out your responses but a general comment.
BTW good luck in the Derby(not sarcastic!)


----------



## Telbell

> Sarcasm is not intended.


Thanks for the reply Bigfoot.
Not despondency-just realistic. Anyway, I'll follow its progress (or not) with interest.
Thanks for good wishes. Tomorrow is more important than last week. 6 pointer. I'll be there. I won't ask which colour you are??


----------



## Telbell

> If Kevin doesn't get his project up and running it might be a good idea for members from this site to get together and launch a system


David (sorry me again!)

I see where you are coming from but shoulds a starting point not be "Do We Really Need One"?

Comment has already been made about the casual/informal systems that seem to work ok. The question has been asked "what if (in the informal system) the landlord says no you can't stay?". Ok but this could happen in a "formal" system-I don't think anyone shouild be under any illusion that a membership card will FORCE a publican to let you stay if he's full up.

Many of the practical problems identified with K.B.'s system will still be ther.

Anyway I think a Poll might be a good idea ..".do we need a formal system?>.....


----------



## olley

Hi their seems to be a lot of people on here telling Kevin why it won't work, meanwhile he's just carrying on, reminds me of that old adage "those that do, do, those that don't teach"

Olley


----------



## 101703

I wasnt thinking about a formal system as such, more a website database of pubs that allowed motorhomes to stay.


----------



## bigfoot

Telbell said:


> . Tomorrow is more important than last week. 6 pointer. I'll be there. I won't ask which colour you are??
> 
> 
> 
> Lapsed blue. But started working on TV O.Bs at all the home games from Anfield and Goodison soon put me off,like a kid given free range in a chocolate shop. Nice to know when a local team makes good, but have'nt been to a game as a spectator in 40 years!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Telbell

> meanwhile he's just carrying on,


How do we know? he won't tell us anything


----------



## androidGB

I think from my point of view this thread has now more or less run it's course so I will make this my last post on the subject which should make a number of people happy. 

Just because we raise queries on the feasibility of the scheme, does not make us anti, does not makes us negative, does not mean that we have too much time on our hands, it just means we are trying to be realistic, and maybe we have some experience to draw upon which leads us to make our comment. 

Whether or not Kevin gets his scheme off the ground remains to be seen, it's very easy to get people to send you an email indicating their interest in your scheme, getting them to part with their cash up front for a facility that is far from established is a totally different matter. 

I'm not a betting man, well not really, but I'd be surprised if Kevin received many 2nd year subscriptions. Again this is not being negative but if you read mine and others post you will see the reason for making the comment. 


Andrew


----------



## carol

david3003 said:


> It looks like we will have to wait for this site to launch now to see if any changes have been made, if they haven't the system will fail (not least because of the amount of motorhome users in the UK that will have been reading this thread and agree with the posts)
> 
> If Kevin doesn't get his project up and running it might be a good idea for members from this site to get together and launch a system that will work, maybe towards the Autumn?
> 
> I would definitely like to see, and use this type of system and would be happy to help launch one.


In my experience, everyone is for it, as long as

1 as a member they don't have to pay
2 as an owner they don't have to pay

And when crunch comes, they don't join it.....some will - yes - and many emailed later and said well we would have if it had been a success...

I must admit when we did it, people did bring up several points we hadn't thought through, bearing in mind we spoke of it when it was just that an idea...... and we were pleased they did, as it took as a long way through some of the things we had not at that time even thought of..... but once we got the pack from FP and followed their guide lines it all started to fall into place...

I would like Kevin to come back and perhaps say that he hadn't thought of it, or - hopefully he has already got it all covered....

Personally I think he will have to form a club and get a proper license to enable him to run this venture. Why?

The only way I can see it working is if the 'Club' applies to become a 'Paragraph 5 Exempted Organisation' under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, and is therefore able to issue the pubs with certificates allowing them to have up to 5 'caravans' to stay without the need for planning permission or a site licence.

The so called '28 day rule' would be too restrictive as it only allows one 'caravan' at a time, and a total of 28 nights in one year in which a 'caravan' can be occupied on the land.

Andy from mh-list had just reminded me of the fact above, and put it more succinctly that I could have remembered...so thanks Andy....

So Kevin, is this the way you are doing it?

Carol


----------



## keithfw

Why are so many of you putting up objections or looking for the negatives - Here's a guy who is making one hell of an effort to get something started, we should all be backing him as much as we can. Of course there will be problems but instead of carping on about any shortfalls lets all try and help to make it work. When they encounter a problem, lets all support them - if it means minor law changes, lets all push for it!

This is for the benefit of all of us (unless you prefer to always pay rip-off campsite fees even for 1 night stop-overs) and remember, that's what is all about - 1 night stopovers not 2 weeks holiday!

Kevin, you have definitely got my support and, I think, every motorhome owner I know personally. Good luck mate.


----------



## Telbell

> Why are so many of you putting up objections or looking for the negatives


I'm surprised that question needs to be asked after all these Posts! I think there are enough Posts on here to show why so I suggest you read them all. There is a "positive" in the basic idea. There are many "negatives" in its implementation-but I aint going through all of them again- they are clearly to be seen in (most of) the Posts.

I'm with Android on this and feel the thread has run its course for me too. I reserve the right though to come back t if Kevin wants to return with any more information that would clarify the many points raised.


----------



## 104722

*motor home stopover*

first of all i would like to thank everyone for there views, what ever they are. i don't really know where to start and i am sure that i will not answer all of your questions at this time.
first of all it is important that you understand the concept of stopover, its what you do at a service station on the motorway in a car park. you don't camp. we are trying to get places up and down the country where you can pull in for the night instead of staying in a lay bye or similar. somewhere relitivley safe instead of in the middle of nowhere. the ideal places for this is pub car parks, with the permmision of the landlord.
at these car parks you can stay for one night free of charge, the following morning you will be on your way to the next location which could be your holiday destination. holiday over you can stay at the same place or a different place on your way home. no campsites are mentioned, only car parks.
some pubs have campsites and will allow you to stay for extra nights if you want , some pubs will let you stay in there car park for extra nights if you ask them. you cant set up camp , pull down the awning and get the bbq out because it is a car park and not a camp site. as one of you have said already, you are not going for a two weeks holiday at the pub up the road because its a pub with a car park and not a camp site.
with regards to subs(£30.00)... 
cost of advertising, cost of web development,setting up of database , legal cost,s and cost of recruitment are the main areas of cost, i don't intend to go in to detail about because this as is up to the individual to decide whether they want to join or not in the same way as it is up to the individual whether they buy food or not.
one statement was that i make pots of money out of this idea with vans using my car park. i wish that person was in this trade and had the same overheads as a publican and had to put up with as much hastle as we do.
final mater i wish to cover is that members will be required to call the intended stopover before arriving to ensure there is room. most of the pubs selected have very large car parks and can hold 50 to 100 cars.(when was the last time you seen a pub car park full?)
this debate could go on and on so this is my last post on the subject. if the project is not for you or you have any doubts then don't join. if you think that £30.00 is to much then don't join, if you think we are breaking the law then don't join,if you are looking for new campsites then don't join.. this is a stopover club for members who want to stay overnight to break up a journey or visit relations etc etc.
the reason for membership is that landlords want some sort of assurance that they will not get traveller's in their car parks and will be able to trace anyone who may cause damage to their property.
thank you all for your overwhelming interest and your views, kevin


----------



## JockandRita

Hi all,

See here for some >>Answers<<

_Mod edit: the post linked to has actually been merged into this thread, and the link no longer works  
The post is :: here :: _

Jock.


----------



## geraldandannie

JockandRita said:


> See here for some >>Answers<<


Hi Jock

I've taken the liberty of merging Kevin's post into this thread - I like things nice and neat :wink:

Gerald


----------



## JockandRita

geraldandannie said:


> Hi Jock
> I've taken the liberty of merging Kevin's post into this thread - I like things nice and neat :wink:
> 
> Gerald


Hi Gerald,

Me too.

I just didn't want Kevin's new post to get lost in the forum depths, and have folks thinking that he didn't reply.

You can delete my link if you think it appropriate to do so. No problem.

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## Telbell

Firstly thanks to Kevin for his reply. I think it's fair to say that most of us understand the difference between"overnighting" and "camping".

As Kevin has made it clear he will Post no further on this subject there seems little point in posing other questions (on this thread) which still occur to me.

No doubt those who want to pursue the concept with Kevin will use his website for this purpose.


----------



## sallytrafic

Here is a link to his site for book marking purposes or you can contact him and ensure you get informed when they start taking members >motorhomestopover<


----------



## sallytrafic

Never one to rush things - where spending the hard earned that is I have just joined, I spent £20 on one site this year so £30 doesn't seem too bad a deal.


----------



## sallytrafic

And to prove it


----------



## 96299

Come on then Frank.Show us where the stops are before we part with hard earned. :roll: :lol: 

steve


----------



## carprus

sallytrafic said:


> Here is a link to his site for book marking purposes or you can contact him and ensure you get informed when they start taking members >motorhomestopover<


The link will not work for me :? .


----------



## 100127

carprus said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to his site for book marking purposes or you can contact him and ensure you get informed when they start taking members >motorhomestopover<
> 
> 
> 
> The link will not work for me :? .
Click to expand...

Remove the part that says contact.php and press enter. It should then work.


----------



## carprus

Top man many thanks.


----------



## 100127

carprus said:


> Top man many thanks.


No probs my friend and thanks for my first thanks.

Bob


----------



## carprus

You are welcome :wink: .


----------



## CurlyBoy

*Motorhomestopovers*

Hi all,just returned from 8 weeks in france and wanted a convenient stopover from tunnel,went to pub stopover near beachy head,BUT landlord said he charges £10 per night unless you have a meal(which we had planned to do) needless to say we didnt stop as I dont think this is what we agreed to and paid £30 subscription for(first night FREE!)but then we werent detered,found another close by which was superb!The landlord there came off the better for £40 as we did have a meal and a very pleasant evening!cheers curlyboy


----------



## androidGB

*Re: Motorhomestopovers*



CurlyBoy said:


> ,found another close by which was superb!The landlord there came off the better for £40 as we did have a meal and a very pleasant evening!cheers curlyboy


Can you remember the name of this one. Was it one in the stopover scheme, or one you just picked on the off chance?

Andrew


----------



## CurlyBoy

*motorhomestopovers*

Hi,sorry I should have said,the pub that wanted to charge me £10 was the Swingate Inn at dover,it is a member of the stopover scheme(£3.20p for a pint of sour london Pride!)the second is The Swan Inn at wittersham,excellent in all respects,also a member of the scheme.Hope this is useful.Curlyboy


----------



## Bagshanty

hilldweller said:


> >> electricity will be chargable (£2.50) per night.
> 
> Well there's a good start, that is illegal.


No its not. Ministers said so at the time. That's just given as an excuse by the Caravan & Camping Clubs.


----------



## 96299

*Re: motorhomestopovers*



CurlyBoy said:


> Hi,sorry I should have said,the pub that wanted to charge me £10 was the Swingate Inn at dover,it is a member of the stopover scheme(£3.20p for a pint of sour london Pride!)the second is The Swan Inn at wittersham,excellent in all respects,also a member of the scheme.Hope this is useful.Curlyboy


Hi Curlyboy

How can the swingate inn want to charge you a tenner :? I thought the first night was free as part of the deal.If thats the case,are they breaking the rules?
I really want to join this scheme but not enough info on it and wont part with dosh until I know more.

steve


----------



## CurlyBoy

*motorhomestopovers*

Hi Chigman,that was exactly my point,he was trying to break the rules,so for that reason we didn't stop.I have been trying to contact kevin at Motorhomestopovers but cannot Login,will try again and come back with his reply! Cheers curlyboy


----------



## CurlyBoy

*motorhmestopovers*

Hi Chigman,have managed to contact Kevin at Motorhomestopovers,he has had similar comments about this particular pub and has tried to get the landlord to agree to the terms of the scheme,but he has refused on the grounds that his pub is "idealy situated for cross channel crossings" kevin is considering removing this pub from the scheme but in the meantime suggests we spread the word and hope MH'ers take their business elsewhere,as we certainly did!
hope this is useful
curlyboy


----------



## parigby

I'm interested in joining this site. Can anyone tell me at this stage how many paid up members they have, as opposed to the number of stopover locations. 

What l don't want to find is that two or three months after paying out my £30.00, the idea goes belly up because there's only one man and his dog as members.


regards ...... philip


----------



## 96299

*Re: motorhomestopovers*



CurlyBoy said:


> Hi,sorry I should have said,the pub that wanted to charge me £10 was the Swingate Inn at dover,it is a member of the stopover scheme(£3.20p for a pint of sour london Pride!)the second is The Swan Inn at wittersham,excellent in all respects,also a member of the scheme.Hope this is useful.Curlyboy


Just found out that this pub charges £10.00 if you dont have a meal there.It states it clearly before you book.

steve


----------



## piper1

*Count me in!*

Great idea!


----------



## sallytrafic

Just stayed at my first one. Very nice pub and location. I was landlords first motorhome stopover. So we were both 'virgins' . Clearly he wanted to see what was was in it for him as much as I was to see how good it would be for me. In the end we had an excellent meal and some drinks, dependant upon his mark up I expect he made about enough out of me for honour to be satisfied both ways. All his staff knew about the scheme and my membership was carefully checked. 

I don't see that my naming the place will do anything for the scheme relying as it does for people paying for membership and then gaining access to the address database.

I expect to use two more in the very near future so I reckon my £30 will have been worth it by then.


----------



## 96299

I held out for a while,but finaly cracked and joined the scheme last week.  Have booked my first one for 16 august  

steve


----------



## Telbell

When Kevin Bird introduced the scheme to us in March he categorically said 


> the main idea is that a member with a membership card can stay for one night absolutely free at all of the sites listed,


 so (a) How come the landlord was allowed to join and (b) Why can't Kevin just remove him from the list (or give him the yellow card or whatever)

I see there's been over 9000 views of this thread....but not many semm to have announced that they've joined. Are there many others?

Steve-what happens if yu arrive and there's no room in the carpark? Is the landlord keeping some spaces free for you? Did you pay any deposit?

Cheers


----------



## kevwright

Not sure if I am missing anything but it seems you have to pay £30 before you can even find out where they are?

Did Kevin Bird actually ever spend his £10 to join here?



Kev


----------



## 96299

Kev-Yes,you have to pay the £30.00 before you can see where your going.  

Tel-No deposit paid mate-"just turn up on the day,we have plenty of room".These are mainly rural settings so wouldn`t of thought they get to busy anyway.I stayed at the pub and the experience was a very good one,the landlord was spot on.  

steve


----------



## kevwright

That is strange don't you think.

Surely if people could see a few pubs around where they go a lot (Lakes for us), then they would be more likley to join.

For me, there are a couple of reasons why I have not joined, despite thinking it is a great idea.

1. Kevin himself does not inspire great confidence, if you are going to run a business like this you should at least know how to lay out your messages and sort out spelling, punctuation and the like?

2. £30. Simply too much. At a £10 (like here) it would be a no brainer.

Anyway, I have just joined the forums at his site, so I will ask some questions there.

Kev


----------



## 96299

kevwright said:


> That is strange don't you think.
> 
> Surely if people could see a few pubs around where they go a lot (Lakes for us), then they would be more likley to join.
> 
> Kev


I know what you mean Kev and i thought the same before I finaly gave in and joined.If you stay at 3 or 4 sites then I would say that you have got your moneys worth,this is the way that I saw it,and going by my first experience I`m glad I joined.

steve


----------



## kevwright

Hrmm, still not sure, I have been reading about the ones who either make you eat there, or charge a fee, which seems to be completely against the whole point?

Also, if you have to eat there, it defeats the point of a MH for me, which is to be completely free to do what I want, when (as opposed to being forced to eat before 9pm for example).

I guess on reflection it really is not for me.


Kev


----------



## Telbell

> Anyway, I have just joined the forums at his site, so I will ask some questions there.


They may welcome that Kev-don't seem to have many Posters considering number of members.

Not for me either. Each to their own though


----------



## 107088

*Re: motorhomestopovers*



CurlyBoy said:


> Hi,sorry I should have said,the pub that wanted to charge me £10 was the Swingate Inn at dover,it is a member of the stopover scheme(£3.20p for a pint of sour london Pride!)the second is The Swan Inn at wittersham,excellent in all respects,also a member of the scheme.Hope this is useful.Curlyboy


May I be a pedant for once and point out that Dover aint near Beachy Head...by a couple of hours or so.


----------



## frenchfancy

Am i missing something here, how do you access this site, and i do think it is a good idea


----------



## androidGB

frenchfancy said:


> Am i missing something here, how do you access this site, and i do think it is a good idea


I think that's the point that's being made.

You have to subscribe £30 to find out where the pubs are that are offering this facility.

I presume the reason for keeping this information solely for subscribers, is that Kevin is worried that the pubs will not turn away non members, thereby defeating the purpose of his business.

If this was not the case, by making them public I'm sure he would attract more members

Andrew


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## frenchfancy

I am sorry but i think £30 is a bit excessive


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## erneboy

Well done Kevin, great idea. Ignore the negative nonsense. At times it does seem that some people using this site are only interested in picking holes in what other people say, Alan.


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## 94969

I'm sorry I've not read all the responses to this. but from my own journeys around the UK. when we've stopped at a pub for evening meal and asked to stay the night, we have been welcomed with open arms.

''Thank you landlord, I'll have another pint now as I'm not driving tonight''   

Roy & Helen.


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## androidGB

erneboy said:


> Well done Kevin, great idea. Ignore the negative nonsense. At times it does seem that some people using this site are only interested in picking holes in what other people say, Alan.


Like to expand on this a bit?

Andrew


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## autostratus

kevwright said:


> Did Kevin Bird actually ever spend his £10 to join here? Kev


The answer to your question is no.

It does seem odd when you consider the amount of publicity he gets from here that he can't be bothered to come and answer some of the very pertinent questions which have been asked over the last 5 months.


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## gdleeds

*web address required*

Hi all, sounds great, I`m up for it, but cannot get through to website on above link could it be posted again please... or do I google :wink:

Only 20 days left before off to Morocco, daughter in law overdue with Jemima, wife panicking that I`l be off before new baby arrives... no way I`l say hello and then jump in the escape van!

gdleeds


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## geraldandannie

*Re: web address required*



gdleeds said:


> but cannot get throught to website on above link could it be posted again please


Is :: this it ::?

Gerald


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## gdleeds

*web address required*

 great thanks for the quick response


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## Telbell

> but from my own journeys around the UK. when we've stopped at a pub for evening meal and asked to stay the night, we have been welcomed with open arms.


Same here.-Plus ther's a large database already available of "Pubs with Campsites" for which there's no membership Fee and the nightly fee is reasonable.

If you want to see where some of the pubs are, then register on the forums and you'll be able to see which ones are "recommended" by members, under County headings. Not many if the truth be told. You don't need to pay thirty quid for that. (at the moment till someone tells him :wink: )

You'll also see that the "owner" is conveniently avoiding some of the more "tricky" questions asked by Members. Such as why he doesn't remove the publican who wants to charge a tenner if you don't buy a meal, seeing as that is quite obvioualy against the original T and C's.

I still think he's sailing quite close to the wind legally, hiding behind an attempted distinction between "Campsite" and stopover"-I won't repeat reasons as I've mentioned them on the thread earlier.

There's many reasons why I have a "negative" reaction to the scheme-not least is the way it was introduced.

My own opinion is that I certainly wouldn't get VFM but if others do then fine. I'd be interested to know of those who came on the thread and said "Great Idea" how many have joined... I know of two.



> he can't be bothered to come and answer some of the very pertinent questions which have been asked over the last 5 months.


Autostratus- as I've mentioned he won't even give ansers to members :roll:


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## WiltonShagpile

*Motorhome stopover site*

Hi All,

"Motorhome stopover site"​
Saw the stand at Pickering this week end (21st Sept 2008). Must admit I wasn't over impressed. For what you are getting it seems very expensive, perhaps in a year or two when he's got more sites/pubs it will be worth the £30 he's asking.

*BUT it is a good idea!!! *​
What would happen if all 28000 members of Motorhome facts got there local pub to become a "MF club pub". 
Can you imagine the number of places we would have to stay over in. 
In a perfect world 28000 pubs.

Pubs are having a hard time at the moment, it's a good time to Approach them. I think they'd like the extra business. 
If enough members found a suitable pub the list would be twice "Motorhome Stopovers" in a matter of months. Good sized list by next season.

What do you think??? :idea: 8O

All the best Wilt.


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## androidGB

Wilt.

Here is a section of my post, from March this year on the subject (page 7 of this thread)

_"David3003, well that's at least two of us that think it's a good idea to try to get accomodating landlords to join the forum.

Not just two in fact three, as I posted my proposal to Nuke, and he's even bettered it.

He will offer a free 12 months membership or extension to anyone who gets just 1 landlord/publican offering overnight use of his car park in exchange for the purchase of goods to join our forum.

The landlord/publican will have all the benefits of membership, and Dave is also prepared to do a bit of coding, so that MHF sponsored pubs are moved to the top of the list of stopovers on the database.

This really seems to me to be a good initiative and if all members could find just one pub, we would have an impressive selection.

Nukes only concern is whether there are any legal issues as Practical Motorhome appeared to stop a similar scheme" _

Even with this incentive I don't think many members have got their favorite pubs to sign up

Andrew


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## WiltonShagpile

So is there a list of pubs that will allow an overnight stay?

I haven't been able to find any link!!

"I did say in a perfect world"

Was anything sent out to members or was it just on the forum?

I do thing its worth pursuing.

After spending 2 weeks just using Aires in France it's quite a jolt going back to £20 a night.

Wilt


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## Imbiber

Sorry if this has been explained before:

Q) What happened to the attempt at instigating a British Passion guide?


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## geraldandannie

WiltonShagpile said:


> After spending 2 weeks just using Aires in France it's quite a jolt going back to £20 a night.


But that's like chalk and cheese. You should compare aires to CLs and CSs, where you pay something like £5 to £10.

The idea of the stopover thing is that it is understood that you drink and eat at the pub. So what is the real cost of an overnight stopover?

Gerald


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