# No. 10 Petition on Height Barriers now live



## Brownfools (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi all,

It took ages for No. 10 to approve this, but it's now up and running.
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Motorcaravan/

Hope that you will all sign up!

Cheers!


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Can't see this being an election winner so is likely to be ignored, however I'll sign .........

.........even though it has of all things a spelling mistake. When will people learn to check things properly. If you want people in authority to take you seriously you have to get it right.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

I haven't signed as personally I think the petition is ill conceived, as it is asking the government to legislate against private landowners. Rather than putting pressure on those landowners, we should work with them.
We do need assistance in our towns to encourage us to enjoy them and the Aires system is good, but in our overcrowded land may not be practical. There is no easy answer, but without a proper lobby group such as the C&CC or CC we will not progress.
Perhaps we should pressure the C&CC and CC.
Gerry


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

GerryD said:


> Perhaps we should pressure the C&CC and CC.
> Gerry


Gerry wouldn't that be like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

GerryD said:


> Perhaps we should pressure the C&CC and CC.


Hmm. Persuade the camping clubs (who run tons of campsites) to lobby for free-ish camping spots? I know what you mean, Gerry, but I don't think they'll be interested. It's a shame we don't have an effective lobby group.

Gerald


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

No chance of a change.
Height barriers keep out the rif raf that go around the country camping where and when they like. Leave piles of rubbish for local authotrity to clear up at our expense.
As ever a few spoil it for the decent law abiding citizen.

The cc and c&cc should be making the lobby in a well proposed poll.

Dave p


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi Dave p, 


Like "Wildcampers". Andy


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Andy,
Yes. I canot see any reason why camping overnight in a car park which is paid for by us should not be used for stopovers.

Leave no mess, spend a few quid locally and be on your way.


DAve p


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## Lone-Renegade (Apr 27, 2009)

*Height Barriers Petition*

Great idea, I have just signed it myself as I am disabled and find it very dificult to access places here in Southampton because of these height barriers, my motorhome is my only vehicle so where I go, it also goes, except obviously in those height restricted car parks!.


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## motorhomer2 (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Height Barriers Petition*



Lone-Renegade said:


> Great idea, I have just signed it myself as I am disabled and find it very dificult to access places here in Southampton because of these height barriers, my motorhome is my only vehicle so where I go, it also goes, except obviously in those height restricted car parks!.


Which is most of them. My daughter has a car & regularly uses a certain shopping precinct car park in Southampton. Just back from her hols she decided to pop in when crunch. She had her roof rack on & it wouldnt go under. No max height displayed. Fortunately only the roof box damaged

Motorhomer


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## Lone-Renegade (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Height Barriers Petition*



motorhomer2 said:


> Lone-Renegade said:
> 
> 
> > Great idea, I have just signed it myself as I am disabled and find it very dificult to access places here in Southampton because of these height barriers, my motorhome is my only vehicle so where I go, it also goes, except obviously in those height restricted car parks!.
> ...


I would strongly advise making a claim against Southamptjn City Council, parking division, you should be able to find where to send you claim from Here
Hopefully you can be refunded for the damage, I have a pending claim for damage to my Motorhome wheel alignement which seriously worn tread on both front tyres, I have claimed before and have been refunded, hopefully you can be too, worth a shot, nothing to lose.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

I have signed won't hold my breath though.


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

There are too many local authorities, campsites and shopping precincts that prevent access to car parks, leasure areas and streets with motorcaravans by means of barriers when other motorists are allowed access. Motorcaravans are private vehicles too and many are disabled vehicles. Drivers of these should not be discriminated against; especially when visiting other areas.
I have signed as I understand what you are trying to say/achieve, but, as I have said on here before, unless you craft such petitions very carefully you will not get the point across to those who will have to make the changes necessary.
For instance, use the spell checker.
What are these "streets with motorcaravans"?
They're not "disabled vehicles", they're disabled drivers (or passengers).
"other areas"- other than where?
It may seem like nit picking but give them any opportunity and they WILL misunderstand and we will get the wrong or no result.
I have suggested previously that if we want to present petitions to No 10 then a little peer review beforehand would not go amiss.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Good intentions but there is 

NO HOPE OF THE PETITION BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

Why? Because it is meaningless, for the reasons given above.

Basic English spelling, grammar and composition all have a purpose.

A petition needs an eye-catching (but sensible) title to gain initial attention.

It should then start with a brief but succinct outline of the grievance.

Next it should outline how the grievance can be addressed.

The final part of the petition should inform of the wider benefits to society - the "feel-good" factor that the person petitioned will gain if the petition is adopted.

Even if all that is done, it is a waste of time if the petition is addressed to the wrong people!


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

Having downsized from 24' motorhomes, to a duetto we were totally
BLOWN AWAY WITH THE BARRIERS never gave them a thought, and all of a sudden there they were seemingly everywhere we wanted to go ARGH! so i have just signed up and posted it on my facebook page!


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Waste of time in my opinion
If it upsets you that much buy a smaller van
I have a tall wide vehicle and before buying it considered the limitations
Height barriers are nothing new so what,s the problem

Perhaps next a petition the raise all low bridges that discriminate against tall vehicles :? 
Alan H


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

Fathulhud, you obviously don't know motorhomes! you can't get much smaller than a duetto - kinda blows your post out of the water sunshine!
Maybe you need glasses, read my post again slowly! :roll:


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Raine said:


> Fathulhud, :


Who needs glasses :wink: :wink: 
Alan H


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Raine said:


> Fathulhud, you obviously don't know motorhomes! you can't get much smaller than a duetto - kinda blows your post out of the water sunshine!
> Maybe you need glasses, read my post again slowly! :roll:


My post wasn't a pop at you Raine
as you posted I was writing mine, so didn't see yours
I have only been into Motor homes and caravans for 30 years
and in this time have never had any hang ups :roll: on height barriers

Alan H


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## Lone-Renegade (Apr 27, 2009)

Seems to me people would rather criticise about those that are actually doing something about this problem rather than help in any way, if that is the case then why bother to even post here, I am sure those who are actually doing something appreciate those of us who have actually signed, if you don't wish too then don't, but don't harp on about something which could benefit us all.
Those that can offer more help/assistance I am sure those that be would appreciate your extra influence if you are kindly enough to do so then that also benefits us all


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

:tomcat: =; :lilangel: :B-fly: :bootyshake: :sunny: :sunny: i know but it wasn't a mistake lol 8) :roll:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Vote for Lower Barriers 

Something wrong there I think!


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I stand by what I have written.

I have just been catching up on three weeks worth of posts and I noticed a topic about the provision of "aire" facilities in UK.

I can't find it now (and it is past my bedtime) but there is a link to a document produced by Bridgend Council regarding MH parking/overnighting at Porthcawl.

Find it, read it.

That is the sort of detail that is required.


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## Brownfools (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi all,

Taking your points one by one. Keith did realise his spelling mistake after submitting the petition and was suitably crestfallen. He's attempting to get it corrected. but if they take as long as they did to approve it....

Paul, we were on the ABD stand at the recent Shepton Mallet show (getting pleasantly suntanned) where we had a mock-up barrier in front of a van. It drew lots of comments, particularly from wheelchair users who, understandably find these things tantamount to discrimination. The petitioners wife is, herself, disabled. So it is an issue for them in two ways.

Bear1, your "Peer Review" point is well taken. I will pass it on.

Pippin, grammar and composition aside (and what can you expect from an ex Traffic Cop  ) if it raises the profile of the issue then it surely has to be a positive thing. (Though, had I been the one submitting the petition it would have read differently!)

Raine, thank's for putting it on facebook!

Despite it's shortcomings, thanks to all that have signed up.

David.


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I signed this a few days ago. The problem certainly needs to to be highlighted.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Hi
Can I say that as a dyslexic I, sometimes, consider myself lucky as I never get hot under the collar about something so trivial as a spelling mistake.....most of the time I don’t even notice.
Gary
:wink:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

The only spelling mistakes that I don't notice are the ones I make myself!


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## Brownfools (Sep 15, 2008)

Perhaps in response to criticisms made of the petition, the ABD now have a section of their website dedicated to the issue.
Composed by webmaster Chris Ward, it makes a much more comprehensive, reasoned and detailed case than the petition. Well worth a read.
Motorhomer2, it would seem that your daughter has a case under the dreaded "Health and Safety" legislation. There is a link to a case (sadly, involving a fatality) at a height barrier.

From the Homepage www.abd.org.uk at the top of the section entitled "new and updated pages" click on Height Barriers".

The rest of the site may be of interest too!

Cheers,

David.


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## jellycat (Sep 22, 2009)

Lone-Renegade said:


> Seems to me people would rather criticise about those that are actually doing something about this problem rather than help in any way, if that is the case then why bother to even post here, I am sure those who are actually doing something appreciate those of us who have actually signed, if you don't wish too then don't, but don't harp on about something which could benefit us all.


Why do you get a vehicle knowing full well that it will never fit under a height barrier, then complain because you can't park it in the best car parks.

Not everyone wants to share their car park with a lorry. Go park in the lorry park they are made with Lorries in mind.

There are motor homes on the market that will fit under a barrier, why not try one of these if parking in restricted car parks is your requirement. 
Hight Barriers are there for a reason. Dont just think self, self.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Further to my (vilified) post above.

This link indicates the detail that is required for a council to even think about providing a motorhome aire facility.

You will see that it considers numerous points and gives a very in-depth review of both the technicalities and of the possible benefits and deficits to the local community.

My point is that in making a petition one should think ahead.

For it to be effective it must end up on the desk of someone who can actually initiate the desired outcome.

Number Ten Downing Street does not (believe it or not) control the decisions of local councils in respect of height barriers or anything else to do with motorhome parking/overnighting.

A wishy-washy worded petition to the wrong place is simply wasted effort.

Our problems (as motorhomers) can be addressed at local council level, as indicated by the Bridgend/Porthcawl report.

We must start our campaign from the bottom.
Contact your local councillors.
Point out the detriment/benefit to local businesses - they are likely to own one!
Ask them to take it up the chain to district/county level.
You can do the same.
Try and find other motorhomers in your area (via MHF?) who can join in the campaign.
Produce a document clearly indicating the costs and benefits to the local community.
Write it in the way that council officers want to read.

Finally, it is no good me in Wales trying to influence the councillors in, say, Bournemouth.

If we all do it in our local areas then the results will gradually spread to the benefit of all MHers.

Oh, and don't forget to mention the foreign MHers who will also spend their €uros. 
Stress the contrast in attitude on the continent - which attracts tens of thousands of UK Mhers to spend our pounds over there.

I have started the process in my local area, not for my benefit - for yours!

Ah, the link:

http://www.saynotorestbaycampervans..._Van_Facilities_At_Porthcawl_reviseddraft.pdf


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The op had good intentions, that is to be commended. Many of us complain about things which we find annoying while few of us attempt to improve matters. I too would like to see fewer height barriers. 

As already suggested peer review would help to produce a clear, concise, accurate and readily understood end product, Alan.


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

It is to be commended for what Brownfools is trying to achieve but with only a few signatures there is not a cat in hells chance that it will go further.

There are some people that are very negative on this thread and ridicule and complain that it is not presented in the correct manor.

Would it not help matters if those people who obviously know how to arrange such things assist rather than pour scorn over the idea.

Personally I would not sign such a petition as I actually see the point of having the barriers, it segregates the type of vehicles that can use these areas.

My MH is 3.10 m heigh I have not encountered anywhere yet that I really want to go and been blocked by a height barrier, as for the comment about the disabled that is just not relevant.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't feel that I have been negative.

Pointing out shortcomings in an approach is surely positive.

I have reinforced that positivity by making helpful suggestions.

+ve/-ve = you can tell that I am into electrics!


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## Lone-Renegade (Apr 27, 2009)

jellycat said:


> Lone-Renegade said:
> 
> 
> > Seems to me people would rather criticise about those that are actually doing something about this problem rather than help in any way, if that is the case then why bother to even post here, I am sure those who are actually doing something appreciate those of us who have actually signed, if you don't wish too then don't, but don't harp on about something which could benefit us all.
> ...


Jellycat, I have had my Motorhome for quite some years, long before most of these barriers were even installed.

I cannot afford to go and buy a new van, I have no income or savings, I live on what little money I get in benefit/disability.

Do you even know the difference between a Lorry and a Motorhome, do you actually own one? or are you here just to put others down because they are trying to do something good to benefit other Motorhomers.

I think it is commendable what they are trying to achieve here, and something many Motorhomers would benefit from, if you are a Motorhomer are you saying you would not use any car parks a barrier is removed from, would you petition to have them re installed? I think not.


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

Brownfools said:


> www.abd.org.uk


Off topic I know, but a few words about the ABD would be useful as I've never heard of them.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Credit to the OP for honest intentions but the subject of "Downing Street Petitions" had been aired on MHF before, and in particular discussions on phraseology of the Petition, and just as important, the correct "subject matter"

I agree with pippin's contributions. 

As sure as today is Thursday (just checked :wink: ) the response will be along the lines of ....."....subjects such as low barriers in local car parks are left to local authorities and relevant private landowners to decide upon and where relevant, to legislate for, depending on local circumstances....."

The correct "targets" should be local councils, supermarket owners etc. not national government.

Interesting artickle on Low Barriers in this months Practical Motorhome

oops! "article" I meant- typo, not spelling :lol:


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Lone-Renegade,

Jellycat does not have a crown near the avatar !! Hasn't paid his tenner, sounds like a stirrer.

Steve


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## Lone-Renegade (Apr 27, 2009)

steco1958 said:


> Lone-Renegade,
> 
> Jellycat does not have a crown near the avatar !! Hasn't paid his tenner, sounds like a stirrer.
> 
> Steve


You could well be right Steve, I had some suspicions about his post, I guess the troll has nothing better to do, sad really.


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## Jiggles (Apr 17, 2007)

Well he's had 4 of his 5 free posts so you can say what you like about him, he/she, although I suspect he, will have to pay up or ship out ;-)
John


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

JELLYCAT ah, yes must admit it got up my nose ,(bit painful) but managed to get it out phew! We, after downsizing from 24 footers, did not even think about height barriers, our Duetto being a lot smaller ( come on guys i can only get 3 pairs of shoes in! ) so YES it did come as a big and very annoying SHOCK when we came across them, hubby did say do you think we'll get under that, so i got out and said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! and we didn't! 
I just wanted to see the sea.......................................sigh!


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I have just been reflecting upon this height barrier business.

Perhaps a good approach, before going at it like a bull in a china shop, would be to quietly approach some of the people responsible for erecting them and just politely ask why they did so.

After all, it costs a fair bit of money to put them up so they must have a reason.

There are generally not enough recreational motorhomers around in UK for us to be perceived as a widespread problem.

My suspicion is that 99.99% of barriers are there to discourage travellers (with a capital T) but I doubt that fact will be admitted to very often.

If we know the reasons then they can be argued against far more effectively.


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## 128372 (Oct 1, 2009)

Fatalhud said:


> If it upsets you that much buy a smaller van
> I have a tall wide vehicle and before buying it considered the limitations
> Height barriers are nothing new so what,s the problem
> Perhaps next a petition the raise all low bridges that discriminate against tall vehicles :? Alan H


Must agree fatalhud, it is a bit like buying a house at the end of the runway then complaining about the noise. Height barriers are there to keep travellers' out. How can you do this without a mechanical block? My area is plagued by them. Without height barriers they would run riot. 
I say..............
..................Keep height barriers they are by far the best option for motorhomes ...........
Aldeburgh Suffolk doesn't have height barriers, would you dare park on the sea wall now?....I doubt it......

It is the signage like "no parking for any vehicle with cooking facilities" these are our biggest enemy. Swanage council Dorset loves them. Large areas can be restricted with just one sign, not just one small car park using height barrier. It is the council's attitude to motorhomes that you should be addressing not height barriers. By all means contact your council but discuss their attitude to motorhomes not height barriers.
If you do away with height barriers they will get you with some other more devious restriction.
..................Keep height barriers they are by far the best option for motorhomes ...........

Height barriers are far less restrictive than signage, I say keep them and I think if you have any sense then you will say keep them also. 
..................Keep height barriers they are by far the best option for motorhomes ...........


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Occasionally height barriers serve a purpose other than keeping out travellers and law abiding motorhomers (although they do that as well).

The Waitrose in Harrogate has a 2m barrier and when I asked the store manager 'Why' he said that it was because half the car park is built on top of the Harrogate-Leeds railway and there's a weight limit on it. They're worried that if a really heavy vehicle got in it could damage the tunnel. So, again we motorhomers get hit by action taken against other types of vehicle.

Mind, if you remember the Tesco debacle near High Wycombe a few years back when the car park they were building descended onto the main Chiltern line you can understand the worry.

SDA


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

I have just found this post and I feel rather shocked at the negativity. It is very easy from an arnmchair to say that the petition could have been approached in a more effective way (and that indeed may be true) but I can't help wondering whether those making negative comments have tried to do anything themselves? 

Okay so it may be useful to think of alternative/additional approaches to achieve change. I'd say to that, feel free and bring on the ideas.

Meanwhile if height barriers affect you, and frankly that must be most of us, why on earth not support this petition even if it is only raising awareness and giving a voice to our community? 

I believe that the main point here is that it is discriminatory to NOT provide parking for higher vehicles, this motorcaravan may well be that persons only transport, and indeed that applies to most of us when touring, and on tour we too want to have access to attractions, shops, restaurants, town centres, etc etc and bring valued tourism.

Obviously there will be circumstances where it is impractical to allow high/long/wide/heavy/whatever vehicles access, say down a narrow street or whatever...in those circumstances, wherever it is at all possible an alternative parking area should be provided. 

The discrimination is the issue here and if the continent can do it then my opinion is that Britain should tackle this one too. After all, we are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of just about anything else, so I welcome anything that raises awareness and chips away even a little at what really does amount to a predjudice against our community. 

Ruth


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Agree whole heartedly  with you Ruth.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Some of you may know Graham Hadfield- he of 
Motorhome Friendly & Unfriendly Parking pages - www.motorhomeparking.co.uk

This is what he said in a recent other Forum- I have little doubt that he'd allow me to paste this:

" This is a subject of great interest to me - I wouldn't put so much time and effort into my web site if it were not - but this petition, like the several similar ones we have seen over the past couple of years, will get nowhere.

To succeed it relies on central government (of whichever party) passing legislation to force something on local authorities and on owners of private land (the petition mentions campsites and shopping precincts) which will simply not happen.

The reason why government will not legislate in that way is that the organisations involved can easily prove that they are not discriminating against motor caravans when using barriers to prevent illegal camp sites, boy racers etc.

The way in which local authorities (and others) will be persuaded to change will be by showing them the positive benefits which are likely to be gained by encouraging drivers of motor caravans into their areas and that those benefits outweigh the fears they have of the effects of anti-social behaviour.

Graham"
__________________
Motorhome Friendly & Unfriendly Parking pages - www.motorhomeparking.co.uk

end of quote;

It would be wise to take heed of what he says- he's probably had more consultation/liaison with Local Authorities than most of us have had hot dinners.

It's not a matter of being "Negative" it's about being Realistic and targeting the correct people. It's a Local Authority issue ( as pippin tried to tell people a while ago!)and time would be best spent aiming any complaints/suggestions to Local Authorities....and for example spending time in thanking them for providing Motorhome Parking spaces(seea different thread) .....and THEN reminding them of the commercial benefits of encouraging motorhomers rather than discouraging them by installing barriers.

It's a local issue-write to local authorities or the local MP where you feel barriers are detrrimental to tourism/commerce.


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

I hear what you are saying Tellbell, and totally agree that Graham's opinion needs to be listened to given the dealings that he has had. I also totally agree with encouraging people to lobby locally and to point out the benefits to tourism. As I said, bring on the ideas.

But why NOT sign?

What harm can it do in raising the issue?

AND lets get down to thinking of other ways to achieve the common goal aswell

Ruth


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> AND lets get down to thinking of other ways to achieve the common goal aswell


A number of them have been suggested in this thread


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

And see this
http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page12017
the result of a similar petition regarding motorhome parking.

In effect "it's a local issue and best left to local regulations"
(barriers also mentioned in last para-)

May be worth pasting:
With regards to height restrictions at local authority off-street car parks, height barriers are used to prevent unsuitable vehicles, such as heavy goods vehicles using car parks. Whilst the Government cannot comment on the merits of individual councils' polices, we believe that local authorities are acting within their legal powers to erect such barriers. It is possible that councils may be prepared to review their policy on these barriers following representation from local communities.

This was only 2.5 yrs ago- awareness has been raised- But it's still a LOCAL issue :wink:


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

well lets call the troops and get local, I don't argue there. Still see no reason not to sign the petition though, surely it all keeps it on the agenda


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

The petition, which even if it were addressed to local authorities, is flawed because it is drafted too widely for two reasons-:

Firstly, it brackets height and width together. There is no possibility of getting width barriers banned.

Secondly, it fails to take into account the fact that some barriers are not just to restrict access to certain users. There are many barriers, height and width, e.g. in multi-storey car parks, which protect all of us from accident/injury.

On the subject of positive suggestions, I have not so far seen the following suggested. There are some pay car parks which have a 24hr limit and the exit barrier will not accapt a ticket for exit that is time-expired, so maybe that could work to deter long-term parking by travellers.

As far as restricting access to HGVs, surely no barriers are needed. Public roads have only weight restriction signs without the need for barriers. This should not be acceptable as a justification for barriers.

I believe more thought is needed to work with those erecting the barriers in order to get them to-:

A) demonstrate the problem and the need for restrictions

 B) help them to constructively find alternative ways to deal with their problems

I regret that this petition willl not achieve very much in its present form and forum.

Geoff


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## hightop (Nov 28, 2009)

ruthiebabe said:


> well lets call the troops and get local, I don't argue there. Still see no reason not to sign the petition though, surely it all keeps it on the agenda


Could I ask a simple question? If all high barriers were to disappear overnight do you believe that your parking problems would be a thing of the past?
Just a thought before you answer.
Travellers also have motor homes and caravans. Barriers control travellers.
Many motor home owners are not as particular as you in how they park. Majority of the population look on motor homes as a real pain, they take up 2 spaces, they park blocking my view. They leave rubbish, they empty their toilets, and they pinch water that someone else has to pay for. Etc...Etc 
We are a very small minority of the population, stay low and enjoy your hobby. If you really want freedom of parking then get yourself a pop top. 
The restrictions that would replace height barriers would be far more draconian.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> The petition, which even if it were addressed to local authorities, is flawed ........


I've never suggested a Petition to Local Authorities- not even sure that the "10 Downing St"-type petitions are applicable to Local authorities anyway.

It's not for us to ask local authorities to justify why they need height barriers; they've justified it to their "Cabinet" and the decisions been made.

And the Petition subject to this thread is flawed for many reasons already referred to by some earlier Posters.

Hightop is essentially correct-we Motorhomers are travellers too aren't we?

Surely best course of action is adopt the Graham Hadfield and erneboy(Alan) methodology. Contact your own Authority, and those relevant to your travels, and justify to them why there should be parking places for us-especially if it's a "tourist" area.

And make a "big thing" of thanking them when they do provide such places, maybe encouraging thenm to provide more!


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