# Clutch life expectancy



## PhilK

I supply 120 new vans and minibuses a year and some at 40,000 miles per annum. None mention clutches but on here we always have a clutch topic going on. Its almost as if the Ducato Camper has a lighter clutch fiitted.
I am technical and also have a repair garage, i understand that a driver can make a clutch last or wear one out quickly. What do we reckon the mileage is, on average, from when we should be aware of needing a clutch. 
Phil


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## Stanner

It all depends on the average length of your piece of string. :wink:


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## raynipper

As you say it's all down to the driver Phil.

Our Fiat motorhome only has about 40k miles. 
But both cars are well over 100k and still on original clutches.

Ray.


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## Techno100

Mine is on near 37k 
So far seems ok unless kicked down in 6th, I don't think the auto change is fast enough to get the gearing down without a hint of slip.


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## PhilK

Stanner you are right.Ray, car and can clutches not a million miles apart on make up but a car weighs so much less. Moden 4 wd cars use electrically controlled clutches, even the new Range Rover Sport, to apportion drive as needed. These clutches are not extected to need replacing but are used even more .
Also, why are van clutchea so expensive. Surely workhorse vehicles could be designed to make the job easier and quicker.
Phil


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## Stanner

PhilK said:


> Also, why are van clutchea so expensive. Surely workhorse vehicles could be designed to make the job easier and quicker.
> Phil


Whoever said that the cost of fitting a new clutch was related in any way to either the cost of manufacture or the amount of labour needed to replace it?
:?


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## teemyob

I would guess 60k?

But a DHL Sprinter van working in London will wear out far faster than one doing international freight (long distance motorway work).

TM


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## listerdiesel

250K miles or more on both of our Renault Trafics, and that includes a lot of towing for both.

They are both 2.5 litre, 140bhp on the older one and 150bhp on the newer one.

Having an engine with power in hand means less gear changes and less use of the clutch.

Smaller engines with maximum weight motorhomes probably give the clutch a hard time.

Peter


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## erneboy

In my opinion the clutch in the 3 litre Ducato must be treated very gently. I got 18k out of my first one driving it normally, in the same way as I have driven cars and trucks all my like, fairly briskly.

I sold that van a few months back still on it's second clutch which had 38,000 on it and was fine. I put that down to having used the second clutch as though it was made of cheese (really gently), which I think they are. 

Can't comment on other models, Alan.


Edit: Should have added never worn a clutch out in any other vehicle and had a few for 250k miles ish.


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## Stanner

But then wasn't your 3 litre remapped and the Frankia is a big van - both of which factors could have an impact on clutch life.


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## erneboy

Stanner said:


> But then wasn't your 3 litre remapped and the Frankia is a big van - both of which factors could have an impact on clutch life.


Yes, but the remap was about economy so I didn't drive it to the max. Yes it was a 5.2 ton van which is towards the upper limit for the chassis and possibly beyond the limit for the original clutches.

My understanding is that a harder compound is now used in the 3 litre clutch. The softer one apparently overheated and became polished quite easily. I did see the one which came out of my van. It was barely worn but had been well overheated and was nicely polished.

Hope that helps explain, Alan.


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## eurajohn

Much of this has been covered previously but my suggestions for the "premature" failure of motorhome clutches, normally Ducato ones as that is what the vast majority of vans are based on.
The vehicle will most often be at or near 3500 Kgs (frequently over), often the engine management will have been modified (chipped) to give more than the original design horsepower and torque figures, add to that some will have been fitted with an aftermarket cruise control, probably not set up as well as it could be, which will put extra strain on the drive train. Motorhomes often park up on sites where a fair amount of manoeuvring will be required, frequently on inclines, which because of the ridiculously high reverse gear ratio fitted, necessitates the clutch to be slipped more than is desirable. 
The outcome of that lot is most clutches that need to be replaced before what would be expected an acceptable mileage will usually be glazed and not worn out, either from the friction material or the spring pressure.

That's my mechanical engineers take on it, having been personally involved in a few replacements.


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## dovtrams

My wife's car needed a new clutch after 23K, she blamed Toyota and still maintains that she remembers a recall a few months ago!!

Dave


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## cunny

Just had a heavy duty clutch fitted to my 2 year old Fiat 2.3 ducatto Apachee 700 with only 8000 miles. Looking at the old clutch the drive plate looked fine, the mechanic reckons the problem is with the pressure plate. I believe Fiat now state the standard clutch fitted to the 130 and 150 are not upto the job, hence a heavy duty clutch and flywheel required.


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## Hawcara

Possibly a silly question, but does it help the clutch to sort of double de-clutch when changing down or does this cause unnecessary wear?

For example when going down hill.


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## BillCreer

Hawcara said:


> Possibly a silly question, but does it help the clutch to sort of double de-clutch when changing down or does this cause unnecessary wear?
> 
> For example when going down hill.


Hi,

Double de-clutching only helps the gear box, by synchronising the gear speeds, but does nothing for the clutch.


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## Zozzer

55k in our 1.9 Peugeot Boxer.


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## listerdiesel

We changed the clutch on the Discovery a couple of weeks ago, it was getting a bit 'grabby' and we thought we had a distorted clutch plate, but on stripping it down the plate was fine, less than 0.5mm wear compared with a new plate and no sprung hub issues.

That was after almost 60K miles over 4-1/4 years, and probably would have done that again had it not been for the grabbing, which we now think may be due to shaking of the idle control valve on top of the engine, although the clutch has improved since the change.

That's on a V8 4.0 litre which as most of you know does a lot of heavy towing with the display engine and trailer.

It is a 10-1/2" dry plate clutch, new thickness of the plate is 8.5mm, wear limit is 7.1mm. Engine is 185bhp.

Figures for general interest.

Peter


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## cater_racer

My 3.0 ltr Augusta weighs in at 4250 Kgs loaded and the race car and trailer puts about 1800Kgs on the back. 

So I'm thinking I've been pretty lucky to still be running the same clutch after 55K miles.

On borrowed time I guess, what sort of money will it be , when it does go?


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## BrianJP

On my MH the release bearing failed at 14k so whole clutch was replaced.
On 2 cars the DMF failed taking out the clutch with them at low mileage. 
I believe this is a more likely scenario for modern diesel engines.


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## rosalan

Thanks to the Fiat reversing problem, my clutch was replaced free by Fiat last year with, so I was told, different springs within the plate. Stronger or weaker I do not know.
Whenever I leave my car standing for an extended time, there is an abrasive sound of rust being ground off the discs. As Motorhomes are often left standing for extended periods, could this be an additional cause of wear on the clutch plate that would not occur with more frequent use?

Alan


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## eurajohn

I assume you refer to your brake discs? on your brakes the majority of the disc will be exposed to the atmosphere allowing rust to generate, even the portion covered by the caliper and pad will have an air gap. On the clutch assembly the working surfaces, i.e. flywheel centre plate and cover/ pressure plate will be clamped together at rest, so no air gap the likelihood of rust generating is at the most extremely limited.
As mentioned previously most Ducato clutches that are replaced because of slippage are not from excessive wear but glazing of friction material, caused predominantly by engine torque overcoming the clamping performance of the clutch assembly.

An earlier question asked about double de clutching, a practice which should be totally unnecessary unless the synchro assemblies within the gearbox are not working as designed and of no benefit to clutch longevity.


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## Mikemoss

Our Bessacarr had just been fitted with a new clutch when we bought her at 68,000 miles. I'd regard this as a premature failure, which I strongly suspect was due to the fact that the previous owner had towed a car with it.


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