# German road tolls



## zoro (May 1, 2005)

Looks like the good days in Germany may be over.

Tolls

Steve


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

All roads will eventually be tolled I fear one way or another

Best we make the most of it whilst we can :wink:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Err - the UK has a similar scheme for foreign vehicles, albeit only HGVs.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

that German scheme has been in the pipeline for a couple of years - been various threads on here about it.

it could get over-ruled by the EU on discrimination grounds (Austria and Holland have already lodged objections) but I suspect that due to the power that Germany wields in the EU, it will get the green light.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Pippin

Are you sure about Foreign HGV's being charged to use UK roads?? I dont think they are.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Mrplodd said:


> Pippin
> 
> Are you sure about Foreign HGV's being charged to use UK roads?? I dont think they are.


https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> *Plodd wrote :-*Pippin
> 
> Are you sure about Foreign HGV's being charged to use UK roads?? I dont think they are.


Yes, since April this year..

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy

Pete


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

bit slow there Pete....

:wink:


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

True, my quotes are neater than yours though, so there.

:lol: 

Pete


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

> True, my quotes are neater than yours though, so there.
> 
> Laughing
> 
> Pete


yep - can't disagree!


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## satco (Jan 21, 2012)

wait until tolls become truth ,
don`t try to eat the pig before it`s shot ! 

politicians are -worldwide seen- a bunch of liars and betrayors.
never trust the word of a politician , because they do not remember what
they said yesterday....

if this road toll will really become truth , some 10000 cars and bikes will be taken off the roads , because many persons cannot afford another (additional) tax.
the overall tax-level in Germany has reached already some 50 % of the
individual income (average value)

Jan


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

> if this road will really become truth , some 10000 cars and bikes will be taken off the roads , because many persons cannot afford another (additional) tax.


how do you work that out? the road tax levy is offset by reductions elsewhere, so for German nationals it's tax neutral, not additional. it's only additional for non-Germans


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## satco (Jan 21, 2012)

well , that is what we will do , we will sell 1 of 2 cars.

AND : as I mentioned in my post : I will NOT trust in promises
made by (espacially) by German politicians.

Once a German chancelor promised that the "SOLIDARITY TAX" will
be collected not longer than 10 years (after the re-union) and????
we are still paying it !! 

Jan


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

At £1.70 per day, I can see that the overseas goods vehicles with their enormous fuel tanks, will fear the extra costs of travelling in the UK. I shall try to weigh this against the £130 to use their Autobahns.
(Yes I know I may have stretched matters a little)

Alan


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## klyne (May 10, 2005)

How about we issue a motorway vignette to all UK citizens, for free, and then charge all our overseas visitors £20 for up to a months visit? That seems fair, exactly what the Germans are doing. If the EU has any teeth it should come dome on them like a ton of bricks, but then Germany is the pay master. Personally I would have no objection to paying for a vignette on a level playing field but the fact that the Germans get an equivalent reduction in car tax to cover the cost stinks!!!

David


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

klyne said:


> How about we issue a motorway vignette to all UK citizens, for free, and then charge all our overseas visitors £20 for up to a months visit? That seems fair, exactly what the Germans are doing. If the EU has any teeth it should come dome on them like a ton of bricks, but then Germany is the pay master. Personally I would have no objection to paying for a vignette on a level playing field but the fact that the Germans get an equivalent reduction in car tax to cover the cost stinks!!!
> 
> David


David

If you read the link which two posters published

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hgv-road-user-levy

You will see that is what the UK government has done, in respect of HGVs.

If Poland wanted to do the same there would be a problem - because there is no annual vehicle tax :wink:

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

> *klyne wrote: *How about we issue a motorway vignette to all UK citizens, for free, and then charge all our overseas visitors £20 for up to a months visit? That seems fair, exactly what the Germans are doing. If the EU has any teeth it should come dome on them like a ton of bricks, but then Germany is the pay master. Personally I would have no objection to paying for a vignette on a level playing field but the fact that the Germans get an equivalent reduction in car tax to cover the cost stinks!!!
> 
> David


Well if Germany gets away with it you can bet thats exactly what every other country WILL do!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Personally I would resist such a scheme in the UK. You can bet your a**s that it would cost us a LOT more than we currently pay in VED.

If you want proof look at French Peage charges Calais to Avignon with my 4000Kg MH is about €180 EACH WAY yet I can drive from one end of the UK to the other non stop all year for £165 if I wish.

Road tolls are NOT a good idea, unless you are the bloke collecting them of course (Did someone say Osborne?)


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Wait and see. There is still the First Struckian Law: _"No bill comes out of Parliament in the form it came into Parliament."_ :wink:

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

" yet I can drive from one end of the UK to the other non stop all year for £165 if I wish. "

"Non Stop" Mr Plodd?? Now that IS optimistic!!
:lol: 

I think I'd prefer the choice of a Toll with decent road system, which really WOULD enable non-stop.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

there is news: After the EU Commission has referred Germany to the European Court of Justice, the German Minister for Transport has now stopped the planned road toll introduction. This means that the originally planned launch date 1st January 2016 is obsolete.

I believe that this means the end for the current German road toll plans. Even in the extremely unlikely case that the EU Court has no objections against the German road toll plans, the earliest possible launch date would now be in 2017. However, in 2017 will be the next general elections in Germany, and no politician will dare to launch such an unpopular project in the middle of the electoral campaign.

I also strongly believe that the January 2016 launch date was by far too optimistic anyway. And that the EU Commission's move provides now a welcome excuse for a reschedule that would have been due anyway.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Gerhard

Thanks for that appraisal.

Geoff


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

Mrplodd said:


> Personally I would resist such a scheme in the UK. You can bet your a**s that it would cost us a LOT more than we currently pay in VED.
> 
> If you want proof look at French Peage charges Calais to Avignon with my 4000Kg MH is about €180 EACH WAY yet I can drive from one end of the UK to the other non stop all year for £165 if I wish.
> 
> Road tolls are NOT a good idea, unless you are the bloke collecting them of course (Did someone say Osborne?)


Surely, we all pay a road toll due to the higher fuel tax in the UK. So your journey within the UK costs more than one of a similar length in Europe.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks Gerhard, but I did read that the EU commission thought the system they recommended to Austria (ie the current system) would be more appropriate to Germany. For many of us this would be even worse!

Kev

edit. Here is the bit I read on BBC news website:

But a Commission statement said the scheme "burdens EU-foreigners more than German users".
Foreign drivers - many of them tourists - have the option of buying cheaper short-term stickers, but the Commission says the price is still "disproportionally high".
The Commission favours instead "proportional, distance-based user charges, which better reflect the user and polluter pays principles, to support infrastructure maintenance".
The Commission said its interventions had worked previously in Austria and Slovenia, where similar road toll schemes had been revised to avoid discrimination.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

the EU Commission does not disapprove a road toll system in general. However, what the German gouvernment tried to do was to introduce a road toll system for which *only foreigners *had to pay. While in Austria or Slovenia everybody has to pay, foreigner or not. The plan was to introduce the tolls on one hand, and reduce the vehicle tax for cars registered in Germany (similar to your MOT) by the same amount and at the same time.

The responsible minister for transport obviously thought that by bringing road toll and vehicle tax reduction into parliament as two separate acts, he could get away with it. Well, he did not get away with it, just as the vast majority of EU law experts that were consulted during the parliamentary hearings had already predicted.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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