# Germany motorway tolls



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

It would appear that motorway driving in Germany could become charged. The lower House of Parliament has agreed the plan to charge foreign motorists.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ives-controversial-road-toll-green-light.html

Davy


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

TeamRienza said:


> It would appear that motorway driving in Germany could become charged. The lower House of Parliament has agreed the plan to charge foreign motorists.
> 
> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ives-controversial-road-toll-green-light.html
> 
> Davy


A couple of the states aren't happy, spanner in works come to mind :wink2:

tony


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

One can only hope !

Davy


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I read it earlier today and thought 'Oh. yes' the rest of Europe will react :smile2:

tony


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

this argument has been rumbling along for some time - the original plans were scuppered by the EU on competition grounds I believe but they have gone back with amended plans that do comply with EU regs.

it was inevitable in many ways - trucks already pay to use autobahns for example - and the German network is old and needs upgrading to cope with modern traffic volumes so someone has to pay for it. The Germans are only doing what they do in France, Austria, Switzerland, parts of Spain etc and charge for the use of motorways. and I guess the Dutch and Belgians will be following on next if the states bordering these countries (Saarland and Rhineland-Palatinate) agree to it as these will be the ones affected most by non-German cars using their autobahns.

and how long before the Brits start doing this I wonder?? it might help reduce some of the bloody traffic jams on the M25/M4/M40/M5/M62/etc etc


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

fatbuddha said:


> it might help reduce some of the bloody traffic jams on the M25/M4/M40/M5/M62/etc etc


Where will this displaced traffic go?

The German proposal is not for a blanket €130 as there are short term options e.g. €10 for 10 days as well as a 22-day one.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

rayc said:


> Where will this displaced traffic go?


local roads, or perhaps the money raised from tolls could be used to invest in better public transport for local trips. too many drivers use motorways for short trips to speed up their journeys rather than use local roads - tolling them might help


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayc said:


> Where will this displaced traffic go?
> 
> The German proposal is not for a blanket €130* as there are short term options e.g. €10 for 10 days as well as a 22-day one*.


Ray

Could you please provide a reference to the source of that info, as we have to transit Germany just to get an MOT.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

fatbuddha said:


> local roads, or perhaps the money raised from tolls could be used to invest in better public transport for local trips. too many drivers use motorways for short trips to speed up their journeys rather than use local roads - tolling them might help


Good luck with that in the south of England. The local roads are already choked. There are simply too many cars on the road here, especially in the south and not enough road. Getting people off the motorways would be a disaster I reckon. I agree about public transport though, its shocking.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> 
> Could you please provide a reference to the source of that info, as we have to transit Germany just to get an MOT.
> 
> Geoff


"The plan presented by Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt gives foreign drivers the option of buying a 10-day toll badge for €10 or a two-month one for €20."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30516530


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

fatbuddha said:


> local roads, or perhaps the money raised from tolls could be used to invest in better public transport for local trips. too many drivers use motorways for short trips to speed up their journeys rather than use local roads - tolling them might help


It will be a courageous Government who introduce them. Corageous in the sense as used in Yes Minister.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayc said:


> "The plan presented by Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt gives foreign drivers the option of buying a 10-day toll badge for €10 or a two-month one for €20."
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30516530


Ray

That report was Dec 2014 so presumably was referring to the original proposal, which was scuppered by the EU.

I wonder whether the same still exists in the new proposal - I hope so, if it becomes law.

Geoff


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

If they do do it it would probably be a vignette system I would guess rather than the full blown French toll booths...much cheaper to implement.

I have to say having just driven to Paris and back on their peage it was a dream: good road surface and sod all traffic. We left at 8.00am; had an hour in Paris traffic but were still walking through the house door in Cirencester at 5.00pm :smile2:

I'm not looking forward to the Tag bill coming through though :surprise:

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

A 'vignette ' system works OK in countries like Switzerland where there are border controls selling them at pont of entry.

I cannot see such a system working in a country with no border controls and where I can cross it in a day on motorways, because the stickers are too small for anything like an ANPR camera to detect.

If it will only be €10 and it lasts for any 10 days in a year, like Switzerland, I would be happy to pay it for 2 transits.

Geoff


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> A 'vignette ' system works OK in countries like Switzerland where there are border controls selling them at pont of entry.
> 
> I cannot see such a system working in a country with no border controls and where I can cross it in a day on motorways, because the stickers are too small for anything like an ANPR camera to detect.
> 
> ...


there are no border controls for Austria and you can buy vignettes at the point of entry (we bought one at the Brenner Crossing) - they seem to manage OK but I don't know how many non-vignette holders they catch or what systems they use to check. and they do use cameras to check the vignettes on windscreens.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> A 'vignette ' system works OK in countries like Switzerland where there are border controls selling them at pont of entry.
> 
> I cannot see such a system working in a country with no border controls and where I can cross it in a day on motorways, because the stickers are too small for anything like an ANPR camera to detect.
> 
> ...


I am sure I remember whizzing into Switzerland on the motorway and going straight through the border. I forgot about the Vignette so bought one at a fuel station near where we ended up. I would imagine you could just pull into the first services and buy one there.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

barryd said:


> I am sure I remember whizzing into Switzerland on the motorway and going straight through the border. I forgot about the Vignette so bought one at a fuel station near where we ended up. I would imagine you could just pull into the first services and buy one there.


Enter the Autobahn system without one and even if you stop at the 1st fuel station to buy one, Herr Plod will fine you if caught - been lots of people that's happened to. Always recommended to buy before you enter the country.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

barryd said:


> I am sure I remember whizzing into Switzerland on the motorway and going straight through the border. I forgot about the Vignette so bought one at a fuel station near where we ended up. I would imagine you could just pull into the first services and buy one there.


Are you sure that you never crossed the border on a non-motorway road and then joined the motorway later Barryd? Never seen a motorway type border crossing yet where you could physically get through without coughing up the lolly. :laugh:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

ob1 said:


> Are you sure that you never crossed the border on a non-motorway road and then joined the motorway later Barryd? Never seen a motorway type border crossing yet where you could physically get through without coughing up the lolly. :laugh:


I am trying to remember where it was but my memory of it was that the traffic slowed a bit but we were through and on the motorway without stopping. Could have been around Basel. I definitely didnt stop though. Other years though and the first time we went to the Rhine falls at the border at Bagen they stopped us and took us behind the border station to a weigh bridge and weighed the van. The border guards there just told us to buy a Vignette down the road in the village. I remember that well as we had filled the Luton with several cases of German beer and I Was thinking I bet I am over 3500kg and would have to sit at the road side and share it out with the border guards to get the weight down.


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

You can pre-buy a Swiss Vignette from STC London, if you prefer, but at the border posts I have been through you are 'forced' to buy one from the kiosk at the border and watched while you stick it on the window. You cant get it off without it falling to pieces. Bit of a hassle as there's little place to park. Or you can choose an entry point that's not on a motorway and just stay off the motorways as indicated by GREEN freeway signs. Last year I didn't want to shell out for a short visit to Lake Geneva area, so I entered via N5 in the Jura down to Nyon, straight past the motorway onramp to the lakeside road, all the way round the west end of the lake, through Geneva and back into France again at Annemasse. Back into Switzerland at St Gingolph at the other end of the lake (south side) to my fave site at Le Bouveret (ACSI - Rive Bleue). From there you can go anywhere in the region by public transport by rail, bus or lake steamer. Back out via Gex and on to St Claude. (Lovely drive!!) You can download a map of Swiss autoroutes, but they are quite hard to avoid so would suggest planning route carefully and looking out for the GREEN freeway signs. At SFr 40 (I think) it's steep for just a week or 2's stay. There's no short stay version.


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## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

HermanHymer said:


> You can pre-buy a Swiss Vignette from STC London, if you prefer, but at the border posts I have been through you are 'forced' to buy one from the kiosk at the border and watched while you stick it on the window. You cant get it off without it falling to pieces. Bit of a hassle as there's little place to park. Or you can choose an entry point that's not on a motorway and just stay off the motorways as indicated by GREEN freeway signs. Last year I didn't want to shell out for a short visit to Lake Geneva area, so I entered via N5 in the Jura down to Nyon, straight past the motorway onramp to the lakeside road, all the way round the west end of the lake, through Geneva and back into France again at Annemasse. Back into Switzerland at St Gingolph at the other end of the lake (south side) to my fave site at Le Bouveret (ACSI - Rive Bleue). From there you can go anywhere in the region by public transport by rail, bus or lake steamer. Back out via Gex and on to St Claude. (Lovely drive!!) You can download a map of Swiss autoroutes, but they are quite hard to avoid so would suggest planning route carefully and looking out for the GREEN freeway signs. At SFr 40 (I think) it's steep for just a week or 2's stay. There's no short stay version.


However if you are plated at over 3500kg then you need to pay to use any road in Switzerland, different system with paper permit.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

kabundi said:


> However if you are plated at over 3500kg then you need to pay to use any road in Switzerland, different system with paper permit.


Just for completeness, over 3500kg you have to pay for any day in Switzerland, whether you are driving on that day, parked or on a campsite. However the days you buy, 10 is minimum, can be used at any time within, I think, one year, so can be used to transit Switzerland southwards and northwards as long as total is not more than the amount of days you have paid for.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

kabundi said:


> However if you are plated at over 3500kg then you need to pay to use any road in Switzerland, different system with paper permit.


That will explain why after we were weighed the border guards just told us to buy a vignette in the next village. We were under 3500kg (just)


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## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

nicholsong said:


> Just for completeness, over 3500kg you have to pay for any day in Switzerland, whether you are driving on that day, parked or on a campsite. However the days you buy, 10 is minimum, can be used at any time within, I think, one year, so can be used to transit Switzerland southwards and northwards as long as total is not more than the amount of days you have paid for.
> 
> Geoff


The minimum you can buy is 8 consecutive days at SFr25. If you buy 10 days they are valid for any 10 days within a year from the date of issue. You fill in the dates on the permit yourself. You need the original V5 showing the weight. Buy the permit at the border.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

kabundi said:


> The minimum you can buy is 8 consecutive days at SFr25. If you buy 10 days they are valid for any 10 days within a year from the date of issue. You fill in the dates on the permit yourself. You need the *original V5 showing the weigh*t. Buy the permit at the border.


I wonder what weight the Swiss look for.

I have nothing entered on my V5C at F.I 'Max. permissible mass'

The only weight shown is at [Y] Revenue weight 3850kg. Which is not an entry shown on most standard International Registration Documents.

Has anyone submitted a V5C like mine and what did the Swiss do?

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> I wonder what weight the Swiss look for.
> 
> I have nothing entered on my V5C at F.I 'Max. permissible mass'
> 
> ...


Well in my case they just weighed the van. I think they may have asked to see the docs and looked at the weight plate. I dont think they believed a 7 metre van with a scooter on the back could be under 3500kg. We got asked about weight several times that year at every border. I just kept showing them the print out the border guards gave us. I think maybe they were having a bit of a clamp down that year as its never happened since.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

kabundi said:


> The minimum you can buy is 8 consecutive days at SFr25. If you buy 10 days they are valid for any 10 days within a year from the date of issue. You fill in the dates on the permit yourself. You need the original V5 showing the weight. Buy the permit at the border.


...and it includes any days where you are in the country even if you are not on the roads, I believe.

Also make sure to fill it in as I also believe that if you are stopped and checked and it isn't filled in with the requisite dates, there could be fineage!

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> ...and it includes any days where you are in the country even if you are not on the roads, I believe.
> 
> Also make sure to fill it in as I also believe that if you are stopped and checked and it isn't filled in with the *requisite dates,* there could be fineage!
> 
> Graham :smile2:


As I understand it, all that has to be filled in is the current date - because you may decide to 'high-tail' it out of Switzerland before the next day. So that way you preserve all unused days for future use later in the year. If you are still there the next day fill that in for that day and so on.

Geoff


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> As I understand it, all that has to be filled in is the current date - because you may decide to 'high-tail' it out of Switzerland before the next day. So that way you preserve all unused days for future use later in the year. If you are still there the next day fill that in for that day and so on.
> 
> Geoff


I think it is the dates that you are in the country - whether your vehicle is moving or not. This should include the current date if you are on the move. Yes, you obviously wouldn't fill in in any future dates until they become today's date! That way any left can be used in the future.

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> I think it is the dates that you are in the country - whether your vehicle is moving or not. This should include the current date if you are on the move. Yes, you obviously wouldn't fill in in any future dates until they become today's date! That way any left can be used in the future.
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Last year we had planned to leave the MH in Switzerland parked near some friends on a Private Road and fly back on a one-way ticket. The plan was changed but if it had gone ahead I am not sure what we would have done - OK the friends could have filled-in the days, but we might have run out of days on the form before return - Hmmm? I think we would have 'winged it' because they live in a quiet backwater.

The Swiss are quite efficient but do not cover every circumstance. I wonder when the legislation for >3500kg was introduced that they intended to charge a MH parked on a campsite for a month for 'using their roads'?

Geoff


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I think the chances of them catching you whilst parked up privately or on a site are minimal however I guess they have the law on their side if ever they needed it!

You are right though: the nature of the tax would put off folks doing just as you say: staying for a month on a CH site...and contributing to the local economy.

Graham :smile2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> I think the chances of them catching you whilst parked up privately or on a site are minimal however I guess they have the law on their side if ever they needed it!
> 
> You are right though: the nature of the tax would put off folks doing just as you say: staying for a month on a CH site...and contributing to the local economy.
> 
> Graham :smile2:


I think the problem could be that when one leaves CH they can see you bought a 10 day pass a month ago:surprise:. Mind you from my friend's, who live 1-2 km from the French border along a country roa, I coulld probably sneek in/out unnoticed - I used to go running from their house and across into France and back, probably crossing the border a couple of times.

Geoff


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## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

kabundi said:


> However if you are plated at over 3500kg then you need to pay to use any road in Switzerland, different system with paper permit.


The motorway toll in Switzerland depends on your weight.

If you are GVW of 3500kg or less then you need an annual VIGNETTE for Switzerland at SFR40, which you can buy at the border. Credit cards are accepted, certainly at Basle. It is also possible to buy this vignette on line at http://www.swisstravelsystem.co.uk/produkttexte.php?passid=5. The vignette must be displayed on the windscreen and allows you to use 'motorways ' in Switzerland, i. e. all roads with a green direction sign. Motorways include many MAIN roads that we would not classify as motorways. It runs from 1 Dec for 14 months to 31 Jan. If you do not use 'motorways' you do not need this vignette however it is very easy to get onto a designated road and if caught the penalties are severe.

However if your GVW is over 3500kg you need to buy a heavy vehicle permit (PSVA) which costs SFR3.25 per day. There is a minimum fee of SFR25, so you could buy 8 consecutive days or alternately pay SFR32.50 for any 10 days within a 12 month period. The 12 month period starts on the day the permit is issued. This is required to ENTER Switzerland and use ANY road. A day is counted if you are in the country whether you drive or not. To obtain this permit you must present an original V5 at the border which must show your weight (GVW). The customs officer will fill in the current day's date on the permit (A4 page) when it is issued and you manually fill in the date, each day you are in Switzerland, on the 10 day permit and retain it for inspection if required. All costs are 2016.

Details of the system are in the link below:
http://www.ezv.admin.ch/zollinfo_firmen/04020/04204/04208/04246/index.html?lang=en
When you open this link, click '15.94 fact sheet' on the right hand side. When the PDF opens, click 'Form 15.91' from the second page. This takes you to the actual permit which is completed by you and authorised by the customs officer at the border.


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## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

nicholsong said:


> I wonder what weight the Swiss look for.
> 
> I have nothing entered on my V5C at F.I 'Max. permissible mass'
> 
> ...


Geoff

Mine is the same as yours. This was what they used to issue me the permit. When I bought the permit at Basle the customs officer studied the V5; however at Chaisso he handed it straight back to me without looking at it.


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## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

kabundi; The vignette must be displayed on the windscreen and allows you to use 'motorways ' in Switzerland said:


> Attached is the toll road map


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