# Washing the toilet cassette.



## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

Right, this might start a row but I've been meaning to ask for ages.

What is the 'technical' objection to swilling out a toilet cassette with fresh water :?: I am asking if the tap can get water splashed *up the pipe* I am asking how any contaminents might get into the fresh water system :?: Is it possible to fill a jug and then to swill that water around the cassette :?:

I don't have a MH (Hopefully not long to go  ) but I keep reading posts where people say that you mustn't go anywhere near a fresh water tap with your cassette, let alone swill it out, so I just want a *technical explanation *of the problem.

I did hire a MH once but I was so new to the game that *I got someone next to me to deal with the cassette*, I just watched from a suitable distance :roll:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Cassette*

Hi

Many sites have the chemical disposal point well away from the fresh water tap.

Some people carry a Dettol type tissue wipe and wipe the tap area.

I don't bother with any special routine and have yet to be poisoned.

Russell


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Losos said:


> What is the 'technical' objection to swilling out a toilet cassette with fresh water :?: I am asking if the tap can get water splashed *up the pipe* I am asking how any contaminents might get into the fresh water system :?: Is it possible to fill a jug and then to swill that water around the cassette :?:


The purpose is to seperate the toilet from the drinking water, that is why toilets are no longer in household kitchens. On many site taps there is a hose tail fitted which people use to fill there water containers. It's not very healthy to use the same hose to swill out the inside off a cassette. I doubt that there is any chance of contaminating the water supply it is more the things that you touch. Touch is important as your hand could be contaminated from emptying the cassette and basic hygine rules would make you wash them before going near a drinking water tap.

On rally sites it is usual where there is no water at the 'elsan' disposal to fill up a container e.g. a used milk container, and use this to swill the cassette and finally to put water into it before use.
I don't agree with rules for the sake of it but 'NO TOILETS AT THE DRINKING WATER TAP' is one of the sensible ones.


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## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

likewise Ive never bothered with any special routine. I always swill out the tank after each chemical disposal, on sites I use the tap provided at the disposal point. At home I use an outside tap to rinse again with no special precaution other than trying to not make contact between the two.

To alleviate any worry, outside taps in general a built with a non return valve in them to stop cross contamination.


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## neilmac (Dec 31, 2008)

Losos said:


> Right, this might start a row but I've been meaning to ask for ages.
> 
> What is the 'technical' objection to swilling out a toilet cassette with fresh water :?: I am asking if the tap can get water splashed *up the pipe* I am asking how any contaminents might get into the fresh water system :?: Is it possible to fill a jug and then to swill that water around the cassette :?:
> 
> ...


Its a good question. I have often seen motorhome users on aires sticking their cassette pipes over a fresh water tap to rinse it 8O but any 'muck' is not likely to get up the tap at that point.

I suppose though, that by the time the next user comes along and connects his nice clean fittings to the contaminated tap then some bacteria will transfer across, and maybe that bacteria will have had a chance to spread inside the outlet of the tap as well, leading to a small contamination in the water supply.

We, personally, make ourseleves feel better by wiping a tap with disinfectant before we use it - whether or not it does any real good? Who knows?

We have yet to suffer ill affects


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## Ian-rapido (Mar 24, 2009)

We once saw someone at a CC site emptying their chemical toilet at the freshwater stand pipe drain. 

CC sites have a waste water drain for caravans/motorhomes with a wastemaster for the sink/shower drain water. Then a drinking water tap and drain and then a completely separate chemical disposal point with its own tap. 

We were completely stunned to see this person emptying their toilet down the fresh water drain, they also put the toilet spout right over the drinking water tap 8O 

By the time I got my shoes on to go across the guy had gone but I reported it to the wardens and I think they cleaned the area.

We tend to carry a pack of antibacterial wipes now, before attaching our hose to the tap we give the tap a wipe over.

Ian


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## mandyandandy (Oct 1, 2006)

We go on alot of rallies when you don't always get a tap near to the elsan point so we take a bucket of grey waste with us to swill the tank out as it is usually just soapy water anyway. 

Drinking from any tap is not a problem for us as we have Nature pure filter, (seen too many tanks up and close to fresh water tap) now I don't have to worry about it. 

Mandy


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

Find the thought of the contents of a swilled toilet splashing onto drinking water outlets somewhat unpleasant.
A quick reminder though that some types of gut bacteria are not affected by alcohol wipes. 
Mind you if we were all exposed to a bit more bacteria we might have more resistance 
Sue


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I would expect coliforms and other potentially harmful bacteria to be spread over a wide area by aerosol droplets every time a cassette is rinsed out, no matter how careful you try to be. 

I recall an experiment on telly to study the effects of flushing ordinary domestic toilets. Seat up / down etc. Swab tests grown in petrie dishes in the lab showed the presence after flushing of coliforms on every surface - walls, ceiling, even on toothbrushes several feet away. Makes you think. :roll: 

Just as well most people have developed a degree of healthy resistance.


SD


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

There is a danger in this modern world that if we get to obsessed with cleanliness and purifying everything that our immune systems will just get weaker and weaker. I have seen people rinse loos from the fresh water on aires and will even admit to doing it myself once or twice when there has been no other option and also I might add keeping a good 12 inches between the outlet and my filler neck. It doesnt look good and I have seen a few people stick the neck of the loo right over the tap which is a bit thoughtless.

I did do the baby wipe thing for a while in France and then just couldnt be bothered. Bet it makes no difference. Stayed on Aires for months on end and drink the water straight out of the tap. No purifying or tank cleansing and never been ill.


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## alunj (Sep 5, 2007)

SpeedyDux said:


> I recall an experiment on telly to study the effects of flushing ordinary domestic toilets. Seat up / down etc. Swab tests grown in petrie dishes in the lab showed the presence after flushing of coliforms on every surface - walls, ceiling, even on toothbrushes several feet away. Makes you think. :roll:
> 
> Just as well most people have developed a degree of healthy resistance.
> 
> SD


Mythbusters did this, they coluldnt contaminate anything ! They were trying to see if the aerosol from the loo would contaminate your tooth brush. No Joy, all clean however they exposed the brush !


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

As previously posted you can use some of the water from the onboard grey waste water to swill out your cassette. I do this as it helps clean the cassette and means I can empty some of the grey water if I am not moving for a couple of days, might mean a walk to the elsan disposal area a couple of times but it does a very good job of cleaning the cassette.

Tim


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Wytonknaus said:


> As previously posted you can use some of the water from the onboard grey waste water to swill out your cassette. I do this as it helps clean the cassette and means I can empty some of the grey water if I am not moving for a couple of days, might mean a walk to the elsan disposal area a couple of times but it does a very good job of cleaning the cassette.
> 
> Tim


Thats a really good idea. If your at an Aire or point where there is only one tap and no flush for the black water disposal point this would work well. Cheers


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

I wouldn't put my toilet cassette anywhere *near* a drinking water tap. Whatever the chances, or not, of contamination it just isn't fair to other people and I think that fairness to other people is important!

I was on a C&CC temp. holiday site a couple of years ago when, in spite of clear notices to the contrary, I saw someone emptying their 'grey waste' into the 'black waste' 'Elsan dump'. I also saw someone filling his water bottles from the tap that was clearly marked as being for 'Elsan use only'.! 

Mind you, I think the term 'Elsan Point' could be somewhat misleading: nobody has an 'Elsan' these days do they?

Last year, after returning from a holiday where we used a couple of temporary holiday sites, I was taken ill with food poisoning. This may have been nothing to do with having been on these sites at all, but it is possible, although it could equally have been caught from handling raw chicken or something, however I was severely ill for several weeks: I previously thought that food poisoning was probably a couple of days or so of sickness, but not so. I wouldn't wish it on anyone ( except the thief who stole my levelling ramps of course  ).

So I can't answer the original question specifically but I would rather not rinse my toilet cassette than risk contaminating someone's drinking water.

Harvey


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

I was on one site where someone kept putting the hose from the black waste wash onto the fresh tap I never did find who it was but it meant giving the drinking water tap a good disinfect and run through every time I used it.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

It's as well to remember that, while most of us are hale and hearty and not affected by a little faecal contamination, there are campers with impaired immune systems who could be.

G


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I have just found this:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/553926.xml

It is a Campinggaz portable toilet, but what I noticed is this:

_Garden hose hook up for easy cleaning_

What a clever idea!

If Thetford incorporated one of those on each cassette it would save a lot of splashing and contamination.

I am off out to the van to investigate the practicalities of fitting a Hozelock inlet, the only tricky bit is making it non-return but perhaps one of those stop ends would do that.

Watch this space!


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Virtually all the places we stayed at in France over the last few weeks only had one water supply for both filling fresh tank and toilet cleaning.

No options there and we didn't have any health problems; copious amounts of Pastis lines the stomach and deters bugs I think :wink:


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

At Honfleur on monday just gone i watched both French and Spanish empty the cassette and then push the spout right over the drinking water tap, a French man stood there waiting with a 10 litre container which i assume was for drinking and filled it staight after, never wiped the tap or anything


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*hygeine*

Hi All,

All water systems in the UK have to conform to the Water Regulations 2009. The regulations specify fluid categories of risk and the method of back flow prevention, as they don't want any back after it has been 'used'. Generally the way water can get back into the system is by backsiphonage which means there has to be a submerged outlet or the possibility of one in the liquid that presents the risk. In this case a hosepipe dangling into a cassette toilet or into the hopper which could become submerged with faecal matter would need to be protected against back flow or the hose removed and the possibility of it being reconnected removed also. If no clear air gap can be achieved between the tap out let and the effective spillover of the hopper then the water supply to the tap must come from a secondary source e.g. a cistern (WC cistern principle). The hose could then be reconnected and be submersible as no backsiphonage can occur. A check valve or combined check valve and anti siphonage valve in the line would not suffice as it is a mechanical device subject to failure. Most sites I visit do not comply with the regulations but they will at some point be inspected.

On a personal hygiene note when filling water containers always keep an air gap between the outlet and the container if you can. If its a hose and is likely to be submerged in your drinking water then give it a wipe with a sterile wipe or a spot of spray bleach and wash off.

I know there are those who ignore basic hygiene as they have never been affected by infection but that is luck not prudence.

You may find my articles here of some use.

Graham


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

I would always keep the toilet away from fresh waters supply as its good commone sense. At the CL we were at last week the disposal point was on its own away from everthing. EAch point had its own tap - I still swilled the cassete out at the disposal point.

On one occassion I forgot to put a splash of clean water in and walked all the back to the m/h so I used a bucket to transfer from the tap to the cassette. I'd like to avaid a bout of the 'tandoori two-step' or giving it someone else


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I think here may be a few wires getting crossed here by the OP.

Its ok to use fresh water to clean out the toilet cassette, its just the source of the fresh water used.

Do not flush your cassette at the drinking water tap.
If there is only one water tap available fill a seperate container (bucket) from the tap and then carry both the bucket of rinsing water and the cassette to the chemical disposal point. This method will reduce the chances of cross contamination with the drinking water supply.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

To quote an NHS site here http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Hepatitis/Pages/Introduction.aspx

"Hepatitis A, caused by the hepatitis A virus, is the most common type of viral hepatitis. It occurs in the UK, but is more common in other countries where sanitation and sewage disposal are poor.

Hepatitis A is usually caught by putting something in your mouth that has been contaminated with the stools (faeces) of someone with hepatitis A. "

So the water you put in the drinking system of your camper contaminated by the previous tap users poor sanitation could give you Hep A, as well as others I'm sure. Or if you don't wask your hands after sluicing your tank at a communal point, have small cuts etc, similar risk. Latex gloves are small and easily carried to save you the hassle?

If you say you've previously never bothered practicing good hygene are you the same people who never bother washing your hands after going to the loo?

I'm not sure ironic is the right word, but how many people in the developing world die each day because they don't have clean water available to practice good hygene, and people with as much clean safe water as want see nothing wrong with contaminating it. Weird.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

Totally agree with Grizzly and spacerunner. Keep the toilet cassette away from drinking water think about the mouth being almost the farthest in can be from your anus! The point I made about water supplies to emptying points, is that it should not be from a mains source without adequate safeguards in place to prevent contamination of the mains water.

Graham


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/hepatitis.htm

This site would also agree that poor sanitation eg "Eating food that has been washed in contaminated water e.g. fruit" could give you Hep A.

Cholera is a remote possibility depending on where the person whose faeces you are facing has been, typhoid maybe more so since once they've had it they can still remain a carrier (so there will be nore people you can catch it from), although the source is usually someone who's been somewhere exotic, or perhaps tapeworm which is something you can catch in the UK.

Your immune system is your bodies gradual build up of resistance to bugs you have been mildly exposed to. The chances of catching something due to poor hygene on your part after the previous user contaminated the fresh water tap may well be small. The few things I've listed are not something your body will have any experience of unless you've had a holiday jab, so your immune system won't have a say in the matter if you infect yourself with them.

This is only some reading I've been doing for my own interest from the NHS, BUPA and WHO websites, so go and look up the consequences of taking that small risk for yourself!


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Having watched people of many nationalities and from motorhomes and caravans use the supplied hose at a MH service point to rinse their cassette I always removing the existing hose and use my own.
I carry a Mole wrench specially for removing well fixed connectors before fitting my own. If I cannot use my own hose, I do not fill there.


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## LPDrifter (Aug 17, 2005)

It is certainly one of the pet peeves that I have when I get to a
campsite where all of the facilities (toilet disposal, grey water disposal and fresh water supply) are all bunched up beside each other.

To me it is a design fault if the services are installed like that. The best campsites have these facilities well away from each other. 

Toilet cassettes are filled with raw sewage if you have a sog unit. And if you use standard chemicals the toilet cassette is filled
with raw sewage treated with some very nasty chemicals.

You don't want to get either the raw sewage or the chemicals into contact with your fresh water supply. 
When these facilities are close to one another even if the user is very careful there is a high risk of splashes
and contact been made with the fresh water tap or hose. 

Campsite owners really should space these services out.

But even on good sites where there are excellent facilities I have come across some people (a minority thankfully) who are
unbelievable. Like the guy I noticed on a site with excellent facilities swilling his toilet cassette out at the drinking
water tap and emptying the contents down the drain along side it.

The mind boggles sometimes :x


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