# Silent Generators



## 96452 (Oct 5, 2005)

Can anyone help me understand the reason for the wide variation in small generator costs. I'm looking to buy a 800 to 1,000 watt "silent" genny and the two predominent makes being marketed is either Honda or Kipor. Both appear to have similar specs. but the Honda is sometimes 2 or 3 times more expensive. OK I can understand that one is probably made in the PRC but has anyone out there experienced either one or both makes as I have an open mind on the makers origin, especially when considering the base costs.
Thanks,
Ron.


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## MikeE (May 1, 2005)

I've been using a Kipor for about a year now - so far it's been very reliable and (reasonably!) quiet - we normally only use it for a couple of hours during the day to charge batteries etc... 

Siting 5 - 10 metres from the van it can't be heard inside at all and the noise level on adjacent sites is very low. 

No direct experience of the Honda, although we were next to a guy at Bangor last year who had one and the noise from his was pretty much the same as from our Kipor.

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I would say if you are not fussy about having a particularly quiet generator, or about ultimate reliability or quality, a Kipor will give better value for money. If you are, get a Honda (52dbA at 7m, Kipor 54-59dBA at 7m).

Dave


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

I wanted to buy a generator at Peterboro show. I had a wander round the site listening to other peoples generators and after listening to over 20 decided the honda was considerably quieter. This is a subjective test obviously.

I went to look for a Honda and No one was selling them :-(

Cheers
Karl


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## LC1962 (Oct 6, 2005)

gromett said:


> I wanted to buy a generator at Peterboro show. I had a wander round the site listening to other peoples generators and after listening to over 20 decided the honda was considerably quieter. This is a subjective test obviously.
> 
> I went to look for a Honda and No one was selling them :-(
> 
> ...


Hi Karl  
Why not rent one when you need it? After all, RVs have gennys already built in :lol:

Linda


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Linda,
I actually need one for the business as well so wanted to kill two birds with one stone.

Please pass my thanks onto your hubby, my van is now totally white and streak free. That stuff is a miracle 8) 8) 8) 

Karl


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## MikeE (May 1, 2005)

Hi grommet - You're right, subjectivity is a big problem in assessing the noise level ... much depends on siting, load on the genny etc. The Honda (53-59dB @ 7m) and the Kipor (54-59dB @ 7m) have pretty similar noise specs; all the other gennys I checked were much (at least 7 dB) louder than that.

The choice between the two probably comes down to quality and reliability at the end of the day. Be nice to hear from somebody who has long term experience of either of them - mine's run for less than a hundred hours or so.

Mike


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Thats why I listened to so many. I wanted to make sure that I didn't hear good or bad examples. They were all sited in different areas. some in the open, others under the van. Some were in the middle of a clump of vans others where on the edge with open field next to it.

I found the Honda were suprisingly a lot quieter considering the specs were so close.

Cheers
Karl


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## slicker (Aug 11, 2005)

*Silent Genertors*

We purchased Kipor generator in December after being very disappointed in the Wolf generator we had bought previously, which pegged out on us. Our Kipor "jenny" is great. It has had a fair bit of use and we are certainly very happy with it.


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## Hymie (May 9, 2005)

*Kipor vs Honda*

Price will almost always rule here understandably.

But it is worth considering that the honda carries a 2 yr warranty, and you WILL be able to get parts for it in 10 years time.

cheers

Dave


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Honda or Kipor?*

I used a borrowed Kipor for a charity thing over a couple of weeks in December; it ran at nearly full load for about two and a half hours without trouble before running out of petrol. This was repeated several times. It looked very well made.

I was therefore planning to buy a Kipor for our MH but in the course of shopping around was warned off them. Apparently the fail "unsafe" if the elctronic control system goes, and this results in damaging voltage surges. But that was a convinced Honda supplier, so perhaps he would say Kipor were a bad choice, wouldn't he?

I ended up buying a Honda partly because I wanted it to run on LPG (to avoid having to carry petrol as well as diesel and LPG) and the converter would not agree to convert a Kipor. So far so good and I am very pleased with it. I run it from a barbeque gas point on the side of the MH using the LPG in my refillable bottles. Apart from avoiding having to carry petrol, the big advantage of running a generator on LPG is the longer endurance the generator will have; a single gas bottle will run a generator for 20 hours compared with only three or four hours for the generator's own petrol tank. Plugged into my barbeque point, I anticipate that the Honda will quietly run all day and all night if I want it to; the gas consumption on only part load should be very low.

I pursuaded myself that it the long run it would be worth the difference in cost to go for the Honda. I paid £999 (including LPG conversion) while a Kipor of roughly the same power (but running on petrol) would have cost only about £450.

Honda prices for generators in UK are however very high, compared for example with the same Honda generator in the USA. Nearly twice as much. Honda operate a similarly unfavourable pricing policy for motorcycles in UK too. Rip off Britain I suspect, no other good reason I can think of.

By the way if you decide to buy a Kipor buy the yellow ones; they are a bit dearer than the red ones but they have inverter controlled output and so are much safer for use with electronics like TV - unless of course they fail "unsafe" as was suggested to me.

Hope this is useful.

Stuart


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Stuart,

Presumably your BBQ point is regulated to low pressure, so what LPG conversion arrangement do you have?

I looked into this at the time, but ended up going via Edge Tech (I think) and as I have just a single gas cylinder I use the second high pressure gas inlet on the manifold before the regulator to supply a high pressure outlet (having removed the one-way valve via Gaslow) to the integrated Edge Tech gas controller/regulator in the gas locker, then stick a low pressure pipe out the locker vent to near the mains inlet. Then connect the genny between the two.

I never got a straight answer to being able to use the LP output direct. Nuke had a similar difficulty in practice the hard way, I believe.

Dave


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Fail unsafe, utter rubbish. If the Kipor can fail that way so can the Honda, by their very nature invertor gennies are going to be a little safer than direct from head systems, applies to both makes

Kipor, even if you bought 2 to 3 new kipor's then whats that compared to the Honda's parts availablity, 10 years is pushing it, even for cars they dont like sticking to the goverment reg 6?

Not sure about Gas conversion and Kipor have not looked, but would be surprised if it is not available somewhere

Hi Dave

_*I never got a straight answer to being able to use the LP output direct. Nuke had a similar difficulty in practice the hard way, I believe. *_

Dave, how can you say that? Yes you did (get a straight answer), logically as they but regulate at lower pressure they can be piggybacked, but you didnt trust me to be right, thats a different thing altogether.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

George,

You're jumping to erroneous conclusions, George 

Yes, I well remember our thread; I recall we agreed. My lack of a straight answer was from the gas conversion suppliers, which is hardly an academic issue when I want to buy one!

Dave


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dave 

I thought we were remembering different things for a while there, I see what you mean now, the supplier couldnt think for himself.

Yes they are likely to want to do it by the numbers and logical thought doesnt come into it. Regardless of the fact it was all fairly obvious when brain in gear.


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## Horsey (May 10, 2005)

Have recently bought a brand new Kipor KGE1000i (Yellow), for £230 delivered, to the Isle of Man. I have been running this alongside my mates similar Honda, there is hardly any difference in, noise, weight, size. 
For the use these generators get, we both agree that the Kipor is the best option at a third of the price. (So do all the onlookers we have had when we have been demonstrating them side by side).


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Low Pressure LPG and Failing Unsafely*

My BBQ point regulated to low pressure and the generator runs well from it. I bought the converted Honda 2.6 KVA generator from Edge Technologies who were recommended to me. Their LPG demand/regulator contraption is usually mounted at the gas bottle end of the pipe (with the regulator) and this leaves the generator relatively unadulterated, with only a clip-on gas pipe connector on the casing to show for the conversion. But because I wanted to use a BBQ gas connection rather than a bottle supply, they suggested mounting the thing on the outside of the generator casing instead. A 2m length of low pressure LPG tubing terminates with c click-in connector which goes straight into the BBQ gas point.

The chap I spoke to at Edge Technologies said they would not sell Kipor because of practical experience with failures which caused damaging voltage surges; I believed him. I was entirely satisfied with their recommendations and service. Surely it does not follow that if Kipor generators have been known to fail causing a damaging voltage surge that Honda's design is also vulnerable in the same way, does it?

By the way I also own a 1 kw Honda generator which came with my last Hymer when I bought it about ten years ago. This generator was ex-hire and very battered-looking and probably several year old then. It has worked faultlessly for me as a stand-by generator at home ever since and starts first pull every time. Every professional I have spoken to about generators sooner or later refers to Honda as the gold standard by which all others are to be judged and I have no reason to doubt that.

I hope Kipor are also good generators. There were at least two retailers selling Kipors at Peterborough, among the variety of other MH accessories they were also selling. It was not clear that either of these retailers were primarily generator suppliers with the technical skills and resources to provide after sales support when it was needed; maybe they are and they have - I had already bought my generator and so did not enquire, which I would have done if I was considering buying from them.

Kipors are cheap and they seem to be selling like hot cakes as MH accessories. I prefered to pay the extra for the reputable product from the reputable source. You pays your money and you takes your choice .......

Hope this is also useful.

Stuart


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## lummers (May 1, 2005)

If its any help I have been using a Kipor 3000tc camping gen for about 9 months on a regulary basis. Great gen runs my 240v mains air conditioning when camping wild for about 4-5 hrs before refilling with petrol if needed, cant say any bab(couldnt afford Honda which Im sure is a great gen too)


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Somerod

If you want to believe what you have been told by a vendor fair enough. He dont sell em but as practical experience, nothing about the statements rings true at all. The whole point of the invertor part is to stop surges, to stop sudden demand being totally transfered to the engine which alters the speed and output, if I had more time I would frame a far better description.

It is not true though, never believe someone with a vested interest in selling you the product he has on hand, thats one reason I always Trust Charles Sterling He had the oppurtunity to sell me mega expensive sine wave (not when compared to others procucts), listened to what I wanted to do then sold me a Quasi at a 1/3 rd of the price of the Pure sine, also guaranteed it would do what I wanted and further said he would give me the Pure sine as a straight swap if it didnt....

An honest man with a belief in his products and he was right I never got the free swap (and if you understand the principles you will understand that pure sine wave invertors are rarely the best option unless you really need one.

_*
if Kipor generators have been known to fail causing a damaging voltage surge that Honda's design is also vulnerable in the same way, does it? *_

Yes they are virtually twin products, so they will behave in similar ways


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Somerod
> 
> _*
> if Kipor generators have been known to fail causing a damaging voltage surge that Honda's design is also vulnerable in the same way, does it? *_
> ...


Not necessarily, The Kipper could have a poorly designed Invertor that could in some circumstances present undesirable outputs on failure. This could be due to an electronic design issue, a component flaw or a physical design issue. I remember in the early 90's a certain psu manufacturer had a dual component failure. A large smoothing capacitor and an SCR based crowbar overvoltage protection circuit failed in such a way as to put a high voltage out. I can't remember the details but it caused the manufacturer to recall all these psu's. Just because this PSU failed didn't mean all PSU's would fail in the same way.

I am sure this is not the case with Kipper however as they wouldn't have become Europes no 2 generator manufacturer if they had an inherent flaw. What I am saying is that just because one manufacturers product doesn't fail in a specified way doesn't automatically mean the other will (or won't.)

Anyway,
Kipper produce two types of generator
Sinemaster (Ti) Series and Camping-Mate (Tc) Series.
Only the SineMaster (Ti) has true sine output. I was told that the Tc series can cause problems with some chargers, some air con units etc.
This has perhaps got them a bit of a bad name when dealers mis-sell the wrong product to the consumer.

The Yellow ones are the ones with full digital invertor with proper sine output. The red ones are the cheaper (Tc) ones that apparently cause trouble with some equipment.

For my money I will be paying the extra and going with the honda which is a proven product with a good history, but thats just me.

Karl


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Karl 

I can point you to several references were Honda and their agents make the same unfounded claims that some sine wave inverter manufacturer's make about "sensitive" electronic equipment like TV's and computers etc, it doesnt happen, but like the sine wave, you get Sheeple who "believe" (and say well it could feasibly happen) regardless of the evidence that says it doesnt.

I wouldnt mind betting that Kipor already outsell Honda generator's, the only time you ever hear of a genny causing failure (realworld not salesman bull) and its extrememely rare, the reason is that they dont follow the simple instruction, switch on, allow to settle before connecting to the van and this is with non inverter gennies, with inverter gennies thats what the inverter is there for, to smooth peaks, its implauseable in the extreme that an invertor is going to fail bad, of all the inverters out there how many stories have we heard? none (except recently a troll related a highly impossible inverter story, I ignored the bait, knowing that the highly technical answer that proved the story rubbish, would only be understood by 2 or 3 people)


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## philmccann (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi George

I am contemplating the usefulness (or otherwise) of a genny. I initially (with my lack of generator theory) thought the one to go for was the yellow Kipor.
Have I picked you up correctly here. Do you reckon the (cheaper) red Kipor is adequate for most circumstances?
The max power would be boiling a kettle (800w), electric heater (800w)
TV/satellite system (?w) and not all at the same time.

Which model would you suggest?


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Phil

Gennies non invertor type (red Kipor), the ouput is regulated by the motor speed, so when the engine as settled it produces mains at a steady htz. If you have the genny hooked up when starting it, it can produce some wild spikes, now this cn go on forever and not cause you any problems, but once in a while it may cause damage to some electronics in the van (only if you do not follow the proper start up sequence) Big loads being switched on do tend to slow the engine this can drop the voltage a bit. 

Thats where the Honda came in, they made the genny head low voltage and then ran an invertor which smoothed the output, Kipor then copied but charged less money. Supposedly you could start with an invertor genny.

Personally I have run TV's, Computers, DVD's using a non invertor genny at times before I even knew not to hook up first....

The Invertor gennies are safer, more people and accident proof.


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## philmccann (Jun 14, 2005)

Cheers George

Good advice as usual


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## 97918 (Mar 1, 2006)

*Kipor Generator*

I have A Kipor which I bought complete with LPG Kit so you can run it off propane no need to carry petrol. Cost £480 2 years ago from www.edgetechnology.co.uk I think the Honda version costs around twice as much. It works fine.


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## Dave757 (May 12, 2005)

bump


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Edge Technology*

This is the firm I got my Honda from, the one that will no longer supply Kipors for quality reasons.

Useful price comparison, LPG Kipor was half the current Honda price - this assumes that they were the same KVA rating.

Stuart


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## 98914 (Apr 27, 2006)

i have own two honda genny's in the last 12-14 yrs now with no problems at all i think they are the best but yes i agree they are more exspensive than the kipon but you get more for your money and 2 year warrenty i can run mine from 7am till at least 3pm without a refuel running some 600-650 watts all the time on that so in general pretty good i think its worth looking at honda in my opinion look around for a good deal you could try ebay some good deals on there at times


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## Dave757 (May 12, 2005)

well I do like Honda quality re bikes & scooters,but the price difference is just too much , especialy if I get red one. Kipor here I come. very useful thread,unlike one of the mags who reviewed gennies recently and did not include kipor, they are so out of touch---- I cancelled my sub!


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## 100512 (Aug 13, 2006)

I erouniously started another thread on Gas powered Genny's but as usual MHF has come up with the answers so thanks all.

I am concerned about the PRC percieved quality issue. I think it is true that some cheap goods do come from China that are low grade but not all by any means. Most 'high tech' avveture clothing is made there. much high technoligy, electronics is made there too. With out the PRC the world would be a very diferent place.

I had two Honda EX 5500 quite gennys that we used profesionaly for filming purposes, we shiped them to Kenya in the heat and also put them on boats for filming on boats and diving use. They performed very well the only failure in 8 years was changing the starting batteries. These units were very heavy though.

I have used a Kipor 2KVA Sinewave unit too, but not for as long, its quite performs well mechnicaly and electricaly and was very inexpensive.

It seems from user expirience in this list at least that Kipor make good kit and thats backed up by my own observations.

Im now trying to see if I can get a gas kit for one, I dont want any petrol around the place.

Dave


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Dave,

You might like to PM Nuke over his experience. He did have a review on MHF of the kit and his trials and tribulations using a regulated output instead of a direct high pressure outlet, but the review was lost in the site crash last year. He may have it saved on his computer somewhere.

I never managed to rationalise the experiences of those for whom the BBQ gas point clearly worked with those for whom it clearly didn't :-(

Dave


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