# Condition of Caravan Club Sites with Snow



## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Has anyone else noticed the lack of commitment from Caravan Club Wardens to clear the access of snow and make it easier for members.

I have just returned after a few days at Durham CC site. The main roads were all gritted and clear. On arriving at the site, all 4 wardens were sitting drinking tea in the office. I was told no water was available and the access road was thick with ice. 

I feel the state of the site was unacceptable. I appreciate it was my choice to use it. However no effort had been made to improve the condition.

I live about 3 miles from the Edinburgh CC Site. I could not believe the mess the access road was in every time I passed. As the snow fell I pushed it off my driveway leaving it clean and usable. No effort was made at the site leading to 6 inches of thick ice on the access road. Even after the main roads and surrounding areas cleared the site access was still a mess as the ice got thicker and thicker and is taking ages to defrost.

This must be one of the busiest times for the Edinburgh CC Site. I would have hoped the wardens would have tried to keep the access safer for members.

It would not have taken much to push the soft snow away as it fell preventing the build up which occurred and the prolonged danger as the ice thaws. 

I can't help thinking if the site was privately owned the owners would have put a lot more effort into keeping the site access safe.

Stewart


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## alanedwin (Nov 11, 2009)

*gritting (teeth)*

We used the Chirk site twice in the last month and the road leading to the site was a death trap. Both walking and driving it was very hazardous. You would think that the local council could grit 200 yards of road considering the number of people using the local pubs and restaurants etc.
The Cresta run holds no fears for me now!


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## jasonb (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Stewart

We had a similar experience at the same site a couple of weeks ago when the snow first hit.We arrived on the Friday and there was a light covering of snow but on Saturday and Sunday it snowed almost non stop and left us with about 8 to 10 inches all round. When it came to leaving on Monday we had no assistance whatsoever from the wardens who were even quite rude! I dug out the first 8 feet in front and gave it a go but it wouldnt budge so We booked in for another night.Apparently it isnt cc policy to clear the access roads only the paths around the reception and toilet block.
I was even told not to walk on the grass by one of the wardens. Walk on it I couldnt even see it!!!
Anyway on Tuesday my wife and I dug ourselves out with the grudging assistance of one of the wardens and some grit/salt.

Not impressed one bit!!!


Ed


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Would that be 'weather' stopping people from - at a time when the news/radio said only go out if necessary - travelling to another place where there is also 'weather' - to travel to?

You CANNOT expect people to clear roads and brush snow 24/7 so you can go and watch 'Strictly' 150 miles from home.

Stop at home when the weathers bad for heavens sake :roll: 

We cancelled two trips out before Christmas - one of those was the result of the CC site telling us the road in was bad.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

If they clear it and you have a slip trip or fall they can be held liable. If they leave it to nature it is on your own head.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

I have to report the opposite. I was at Meathop when the snow fell, and the access road was a death trap, made marginally better by locals putting grit down. However it would have been unrealistic to expect the wardens to clear a one and a half mile public road - that's the council's responsibility.

On the site itself, every road/track had been cleared and gritted by the wardens. Quite an effort for the 10 or so units that were on site at the time.

I know CC bashing is the norm on this board, but I was impressed by the effort they put in given the difficult circumstances.

Paul


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## jasonb (Feb 27, 2009)

no matter what the weather is rudeness now part of the cc wardens job :roll: some of us have to travel and as i first said when we arrived it was a dusting of snow :roll:


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## jasonb (Feb 27, 2009)

paul i am not cc bashing we have been on many very nice cc sites and have always had found wardens to be very helpful, on the durham site the only help was cc members helping each other :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

The only time I have ever met with rudeness from a CC Warden was when (as I discovered afterwards) we had the misfortune to follow an extremely rude and belligerent member.

The warden immediately apologised and explained that she was having a hard day, and when I persuaded her (reluctantly) to give a few details, I was tempted to find the member and punch him in the mouth!

Amazing as it may appear to some, wardens are fellow humans . . . and they are paid very little (if any) above the minimum wage for devoting large portions of their daily lives to serving others.

Trouble is these days we appear to be deeply entrenched in a "blame" culture.

No matter what happens, *someone *has to be blamed! 8O

Dave

Edit . . . . No point in saying what the belligerent member had been ranting about. Nobody would believe it!! 8O


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## Glen432 (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I'm not making any excuse for rudeness it is unacceptable.

We are working at a site near ***** and last week we had up to a foot in snow on two separate days, i was sent an email from head office that wardens are only to clear around toilet blocks and service points and not roads. When i queried this my regional manger phoned and told me under no circumstance are we to clear any site roads, the reason is the blame culture now operating in this country with the club not wanting to be sued for any slips or trips. If people see the snow they know there is an hazard, where on a cleared road people think its safe to walk on.

We have a snow plough on this site and we can't use it!!!.


Regards Phil


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

Thanks Zebedee for standing up for us wardens.

Shirley and I personally do not do it for the money, as in effect given the amount of hours we do, get paid alot lot less than basic wage.

But we do enjoy ourselves and really only get 1 complaint per 100 pitches. Even these we tried to pacify.

Turning to the issue of snow clearance, this 2008 article is quite good:
http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/article3205122.ece

BTW, on sites we do have good and not so good staff and of course you get over expectant campers. Sometimes the mix does not work!


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Not only club sites.

The independent site we stayed on over Christmas was not only ignored by the owners bút the tariff had risen by £4 pun when we came to pay.

The only water supply was a derisory trickle from the laundry sink basin. The shower block was icy cold with blocked sinks.

We shan't be returning to Holly Bush Park, Taunton again.

In contrast the C&CC site at Postern Hill was brilliant. The roads had not been cleared as the site is perfectly level and they had coaxed out a hardstanding for us. They also had a heated cold water tap.

When we left we had to use snow chains to get off the pitch and we were admonished (?) by the warden for not calling them out to tow us.


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## jasonb (Feb 27, 2009)

hi john we did ask the wardens if they could tow us off but said no it was there health/safety policy, anyway hope you are having a good time down there wish we were there but family all unwell, a happy new year to you and june will catch up with you soon xxx dont let lyn you astray :roll:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Snow*

As far as I know, the posts that mention liability when snow is cleared are correct. This therefore makes the situation a double edged sword.

In my mind, when travelling at this time of year, I "take it as it comes". So, for example, earlier this month in Canterbury, site taps were frozen and then more snow fell meaning that I was probably trapped and ubable to get up the slope to leave the site. (As it was, the snowed melted by departure day).

The taps on this site only thawed out a couple of days ago, meaning water was carried from the laundry.

Now the snow has melted, the grass areas are like a bog!

Russell


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I also think that most wardens do an excellent job - working hard in spite of the members.

What saddens me is the very large number of members who drive out without any thanks to the warden and his/her team. We ALWAYS take the time to go and say that we are off as we leave and to say thanks for their hard work. From many conversations it seems that this is not the norm - which saddens me greatly.

As regards the CC telling them NOT to clear snow I can sympathise since we have become very litigious minded with so many "*Had an accident and it was not your fault?*" type adverts offering legal firms that will chase anything and everything and even invent things if it suits their drive for compensation.

This type of thing has been mentioned repeatedly on here and gives rise to such instructions as the CC appear to have issued, sad though it seems.

If we use our MH in slippery conditions it is OUR risk and the driver's risk as to whether it is safe to proceed or not. If it is icy, is it safe to have a 3.5 tonne (+?) vehicle with fwd on a slope when you may not be able to control it? If it is safe then OK, but if not?

You may get part way then find you cannot continue, then what? Reverse out of it? Or simply stay there? Who would you blame?

As the driver the decision MUST be yours as indicated by the conditions.

Dave

(Ready to duck now! :lol: I KNOW not everyone will agree with that! ) :roll:


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## jontan (Aug 30, 2009)

I was at Melrose CC site over Christmas..OK the access road was icy but on site the wardens were extremely helpful.

Every day they were out working to clear pitches, roads, de-icing taps etc

They even arranged a Christmas Eve get together providing wine and nibbles....

Praise where praise is due.....


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Techno100 said:


> If they clear it and you have a slip trip or fall they can be held liable. If they leave it to nature it is on your own head.



Sorry, but I feel a rant coming on . . .
this is a commonly held misconception - can you quote any actual cases where any person, organisation or authority has been successfully sued for responsibly clearing away snow or gritting ice? In fact, the opposite is true and you are more likely to be sued if someone such as postie falls over because you haven't fulfilled your duty of care by taking reasonable steps to protect anyone with a legitimate right to be on your property (Caravan Club take note!). Provided you use common sense and don't for example use hot water which subsequently freezes, you have no liability.
Note this is not simply my opinion, it is based on published guidance - here are some citations:
Firstly, for anyone who quotes the old 'Elf n' Safety' chestnut, I suggest you refer them to this:
http://www.iosh.co.uk/news_and_events/news/latest_news_releases/01_-_good_neighbourliness.aspx
see also
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_191868
Here's what Eric Pickles, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, said recently:
"There should be no barriers getting in the way of community action. I want to send out a strong message that clearing a path and helping your neighbours should no longer be subject to icy bureaucracy and health and safety zealotry. Common sense is now the order of the day.
Source: 
http://www.communities.gov.uk/news/corporate/1789190
Quote: "The guidance challenges misconceptions about health and safety laws getting in the way of action and volunteering. . . . You can help clear paths and pavements to prevent slips and falls - don't believe the myths about being sued." Excerpt from Dept. of Communities & Local Government publication: "Guidance on community action during severe weather" - full version here:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/communities/pdf/1789192.pdf
and notes here:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/communities/severeweatherguidance

I have always cleared any snow and ice then salted to form a clear path down my drive and along the stretch of pavement outside my house during spells of bad weather and have had nothing but praise from passers-by. No-one has yet attempted to sue me. 
Please let's all stop this nonsense of quoting a perceived but non-existent set of excuses to stifle our natural instincts to help our fellow men (and women!).

Rant over; I rest my case for the defence of Common Sense, M'Lud. Now how do I get down off this high horse?
:wink:


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

^^^^^^^This is correct^^^^^^^

The old 'getting sued if you clear it and someone slips' tale is b*llsh*t - no more truth than the 'dog in a microwave' urban myth

I think all of the above (in previous post) was outlined in a radio interview a few months ago. If you attempted such action against a neighbour of similar you would be bounced out of court (if you ever got near it)

However I reiterate my earlier feelings - its no point complaining that the Campsite drive is two foot deep in snow if you have chosen to travel out in it - especially if advised to stay indoors.

Now, unless it snows tomorrow - we aare off for a couple of days R and R in Derbyshire - I have spent today repairing the frost damaged mixer tap!! it must have been cold out there!


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

I wonder if not clearing the snow removes the possibility of blame anyway? 

They still let you in and took your money, so what actually are you paying for, does that contract somehow change because its snowed and they're scared of being sued (individually as well as corporately I would think is possible?)? Surely safe entry and exit has to be part of that?! As a paying customer they must still be responsible for a certain level of care towards you?

We've never had any complaints when staying at CC or CC&C sites, but don't do it too often.

Jason




Edit that'll serve me right for making a cuppa or two between writing and posting! Well ranted Mr Black!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Off on a tangent slightly, but it has been talked about on this thread.
During the recent snow, I have kept my drive and path clear of snow, but I am most definitely in the minority in my area.
I am the only one in our cul-de-sac!
I think it is either folks are afraid of the claim society that we live in or they are damn right idle!
Years ago, everybody cleared the snow and when I was a child I would clear it for my neighbours.
Kids in our cul-de-sac have not even been out making snow men as they are probably too busy on their game-boy or whatever and mollycoddled by their parents!
Whats gone wrong!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I enjoyed Roger's Rant ( :lol: ) but this is a most telling quote . . . my emphasis.

Here's what Eric Pickles, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, said recently:

_"There should be no barriers getting in the way of community action. I want to send out a strong message that clearing a path and helping your neighbours should *no longer* be subject to icy bureaucracy and health and safety zealotry. Common sense *is now the order of the day*."_

This comment clearly accepts that there *has been* a significant problem with H&S beaurocracy, and who can blame people for remaining cautious until common sense is clearly and demonstrably seen to be "_the order of the day_."

Just for interest I also cleared the pavement in front of the house, and very few people would walk there. I asked a couple why not (in a joking way of course) and they said it looked slippery so they were not going to risk it. I was down to the bare tarmac, having swept off the fresh snow six times during the week, but they preferred to walk on the busy main road, on the compacted ice! :roll:

You just can't win sometimes.

Dave


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I totally agree with the rant of rogerblack.

The Health and Safety Act is very wide reaching and if anyone can find anything in there that means you can be sued for removing snow and ice from your property, business etc. I would like to hear it.

As someone who has worked in Management on construction jobs and other types of premises in the UK, the H & S Act is not the ridiculous entity that some people believe. I have however been on sites where it is virtually impossible to get any work done due to "H & S". This is due to one man on site, the company H & S representative, who dreams up all kinds of 'extra' regulations which are then binding.

For example, Tarmac wanted a contractor removing from site for standing on his toolbox to tighten some bolts. The toolbox was about 9" tall and designed to be stood on. He was not removed as I managed to outwit the H & S pillock.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

747 said:


> I totally agree with the rant of rogerblack.
> 
> The Health and Safety Act is very wide reaching and if anyone can find anything in there that means you can be sued for removing snow and ice from your property, business etc. I would like to hear it.
> 
> ...


I was going to post something similar but thought it was too O/T 

I totally agree with the above though, also having a construction background.

As a for instance, to have a mobile crane on site, the driver used to be the one resposible for it. Now you have to have someone on site who has done a 4 day course and is then responsible for any lifting, despite potentially no knowledge before or since of craneage. It most likely, for the client, will be the H&S muppet who has done it. The person for your company has to say that the ground under each outrigger is safe for the loads the crane will apply. How do you know that unless you dig it up? And to what depth?!?

Site management usually start out saying no ladders, but thats not reasonable, sensible, practical or priced for.

Unfortunately the wise words of Mr Pickles won't by themselves have any effect 

Jason


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

1302 said:


> Would that be 'weather' stopping people from - at a time when the news/radio said only go out if necessary - travelling to another place where there is also 'weather' - to travel to?
> 
> You CANNOT expect people to clear roads and brush snow 24/7 so you can go and watch 'Strictly' 150 miles from home.
> 
> ...


Just to put the record straight, when we left Edinburgh there were no weather warnings. All roads were clear with only a small amount of snow on the fields. The only snow we encountered was on the site.

I passed Edinburgh CC Site today and there is still a few inches of ice on the 20m. Enterance to the site.

If the wardens had been bothered/allowed to clear the snow as it fell it would have not become compacted and lasted so long. The entrance is the only place for miles with snow

I'm in no way bashing the Caravan Wardens. We are very frequent users. I think we spent almost 4 months on CC Sites this year, so feel we have contributed enough to allow us to raise a concern

Stewart


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

I for one think Caravan Club wardens have enough work to do without shovelling snow for people, i have always found caravan club sites immaculate and the staff always go out of their way to be helpful,in my job i deal with the public face to face but i wouldnt have the patience to be a warden.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

This is Wandsworth Borough Councils approach to the matter:-

Cold weather
Clearing snow and ice from pavements yourself

Salt bins have been installed at strategic locations across the borough for residents who want to clear icy paths and pavements this winter.

There are 20 salt bins for people who choose to clear ice and snow from footpaths in front of their homes. Each bin contains one tonne of salt - and these will be refilled regularly when the weather demands it.

Neighbourhood watch co-ordinators are also being offered 50 kilos of salt each for use in their streets, while supplies are also available for churches and other community organisations.

There's no law stopping you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your home or from public spaces. It's unlikely you'll be sued or held legally responsible for any injuries on the path if you have cleared it carefully

as found on their website:-

Wandsworth


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

747 said:


> I totally agree with the rant of rogerblack.


So do I, 747 - with a vengeance.



747 said:


> The Health and Safety Act is very wide reaching and if anyone can find anything in there that means you can be sued for removing snow and ice from your property, business etc. I would like to hear it.


I bet the H&S pillock you refer to later could! 8O

_(Just for clarity, I was referring to the public pavement in front of our property, which is not the same as clearing our own property.)_



747 said:


> As someone who has worked in Management on construction jobs and other types of premises in the UK, the H & S Act is not the ridiculous entity that some people believe. I have however been on sites where it is virtually impossible to get any work done due to "H & S". This is due to one man on site, the company H & S representative, who dreams up all kinds of 'extra' regulations which are then binding.
> 
> For example, Tarmac wanted a contractor removing from site for standing on his toolbox to tighten some bolts. The toolbox was about 9" tall and designed to be stood on. He was not removed as I managed to outwit the H & S pillock.


The root of the problem in a nutshell I think.

There's not much wrong with the regulations as they are writ.

It's the sometimes ludicrous and lily-livered interpretations that cause the problems . . . and the stupid compensation awards made by the legal profession!

One could be forgiven for thinking some of them "are on the take"!!

Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Just saw Trek's post about Wandsworth, and even that is not very reassuring. :roll:

_"There's no law stopping you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your home or from public spaces. It's *unlikely *you'll be sued or held legally responsible for any injuries on the path *if you have cleared it carefully*."_

My emphasis again - but in the "_*unlikely*_" event of your being sued, who decides if you "*cleared it carefully*", bearing in mind the snow and ice will be a distant memory by the time it comes to court.

Injury Lawyers for You??

Dave


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I suspect Wandsworth have taken the phrase "It's unlikely you'll be sued or held legally responsible for any injuries on the path if you have cleared it carefully." from the Governments advise / website

Direct Gov

looks like a lot of official sites are using exactly the same phrase


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## dhutchy (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm afraid it's true about the gritting issue i shovelled the snow away from my wifes works entrance ( a vets) and gritted and she was told not to do it anymore as if somebody were to slip on the grit in their health and safety policy they would be liable.Like many other lunatic things that health and safety brings up can't see it changing though it employs too many people on large salaries and they will fight to keep it.David Cameron said he was going to change it he needs to hurry up it is crippling many small businesses like mine in the consruction industry.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

747 said:


> as I managed to outwit the H & S pillock.


That must have taken ages.... :lol:


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

stewartwebr said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > If the wardens had been bothered/allowed to clear the snow as it fell it would have not become compacted and lasted so long. The entrance is the only place for miles with snow
> ...


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

dhutchy said:


> I'm afraid it's true about the gritting issue i shovelled the snow away from my wifes works entrance ( a vets) and gritted and she was told not to do it anymore as if somebody were to slip on the grit in their health and safety policy they would be liable.Like many other lunatic things that health and safety brings up can't see it changing though it employs too many people on large salaries and they will fight to keep it.David Cameron said he was going to change it he needs to hurry up it is crippling many small businesses like mine in the consruction industry.


Interesting scenario, Dave. I'd love to see the wording in their Health & Safety Policy document which specifies this! If there is some such tosh in there, when there is no such legal liability as already shown, then they could only end up having their own policy used against them - I believe the relevant expression is 'hoist upon their own petard'! I suspect this drivel only actually existed in the mind of the person misquoting it.

In any event, I assume you are not an employee, just your wife? In which case if you chose to clear the snow away and had then applied the grit yourself, who would anyone be able to claim against? Certainly not your wife's employer as you were not acting under their instruction. Perhaps they could try to prosecute you for criminal damage in destroying their snow?

I must admit, when I was in the process of clearing the footpath outside my house during the height of this bonkers litigious climate, it did cross my mind that if anyone did try to sue me I would simply deny it was me wot dun it and claim it must have been the Snow Fairy, since no-one would have video evidence (we don't have CCTV round here). I suppose I was also guilty of destroying evidence since by sweeping the snow away I had removed my incriminating footprints.
:wink:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Mornin' Roger

Sorry - off topic, but this illustrates the lengths to which some people with executive power will exert their influence!!!!!

We live near a town where (a few years ago) teams of council workmen were sent out in lorries with great long poles to knock the conkers off any trees near the road.

The reason given was to prevent kids from throwing sticks at them and so creating a danger to themselves or the pedestrian public and passing motorists.

Needless to say the road had to be partially closed (completely in some cases) and coned off for hundreds of yards in each direction while the blokes tried in vain to dislodge more than a tiny fraction of the conkers from each tree.

The men were also instructed to collect all the conkers in case any kid ran into the road to get them . . . . . . . . need I go on. 8O 8O 

I had to see it happening before I could believe it!!!

Dave 8O


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sadly, it is not just the *LIONS* for H&S that causes problems.....

The Food Safety Act 1990 apparently came in as a direct result of a Food Directive from the EC. It was interpreted as a ban on companies supplying food that needed to be kept in a fridge or consumed within 2 hours. :?

*Result*; our school caterers (an outside company which is found throughout the UK) refused to supply packed lunches with sandwiches which contained meat, cheese, eggs or anything similar - jam or Marmite were the only possible fillings....... :roll: 

They maintained that since the meals were collected at 0815 they would have to be eaten by 1015 or they could be liable..... 8O

OK many students ate theirs on the coach outwards and then bought food wherever we were going, but that was not considered acceptable. So the "meals" they provided consisted of chocolate, TUC crackers, peanuts, and chocolate biscuits ONLY.  

It took a very firm warning from the School Bursar that this was not acceptable before changes were enforced - the kitchens now BUY in ready made prepacked sandwiches and issue those since "we have not made them and cannot be held liable". :evil:

In other words yet more balderdash to explain a failure to do something that is reasonable. All schools that I know of allow children to bring in packed lunches but NONE of them provide fridges for the students to keep them in - thus all food is in the youngsters bags for hours before being eaten (if not thrown around the rooms first! :lol. :roll:

Sadly it usually seems to be that someone tries to justify why they WON'T do something by blaming someone or something else e.g. H&S, Food Safety, Highway Code or whatever - it is NEVER their fault! 

Slightly off topic but another example of *LIONS* :twisted:

(*L*ocal *I*nterpretation *O*f *N*ational *S*trategies)

Dave


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

1302 said:


> stewartwebr said:
> 
> 
> > 1302 said:
> ...


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Afternoon, Stewart - and a Happy New Year to you!

Your post was of course correct in that if the snow is cleared regularly as it falls, it is much easier to deal with than waiting until several falls have accumulated and possibly frozen. I don't believe that the lack of clearance was due to physical inability to deal with it, rather the daft H&S attitudes previously exampled, as shown by the willing warden effectively barred from using his snow clearing machine by some jobsworth at HQ.

I can't speak for 1302 in respect of the tone of the response you received but would only mention that it was liberally sprinkled with 'smilies', which I tend to interpret as meaning comments are made tongue in cheek - we don't get many genuine flame wars here even when we disagree with one another's opinions.

I find all postings worthwhile, sometimes those posing an opinion different from mine particularly so, since they encourage thought and debate. OK, sometimes maybe a slightly thick epidermal layer can help!

Please, keep on posting!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

rogerblack said:


> I find all postings worthwhile, sometimes those posing an opinion different from mine particularly so, since they encourage thought and debate. OK, sometimes maybe a slightly thick epidermal layer can help!
> 
> Please, keep on posting!


A sentiment that we all agree with - only Roger got there first! :lol:

We all hope that you will continue to read AND post. 

Like Roger I also saw the smilies which, while they cannot remove the fact there is disagreement does indicate to me that the content is meant in a more light hearted manner.

Please be assured that as Mods we do try to monitor as many posts as we can and if we believe a "flame war" is likely to develop we WILL intervene as explained in the rules (and evidenced by numerous threads where action has been taken).

The Moderators are keen to ensure that the Forum is beneficial to ALL who wish to use it. 

Dave
One of the Moderating team.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

stewartwebr said:


> "Earth calling Stewart"...
> 
> I'm posting less and less on this forum in the fear of being shot down. Your reply is a classic example...unhelpful and rude.
> 
> I think I will resort to reading but not posting.


So , my commenting on criticisms of campsite staff/CC staff is rude...? and unhelpful? I'm struggling to work that out.

You'll have to do better than that if you are going to survive on the 'internetz'

 <-----------smiley - it compensates for rudeness
 <-----------wink - it compensates for sarcasm


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

1302 said:


> "Earth calling Stewart"...


is, I suspect, what he took exception to.

I think this interchange should stop at this point before further actions have to be considered.

I do agree with your

BTW HNY

Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree with Penquin's note of caution - not a good way to start the New Year.

I also suspect some of the comments arose from inconsistencies in Stewart's posts! :?

In the OP he said, _"No effort was made at the site leading to 6 inches of thick ice on the access road."_

Then later he said, _"All roads were clear with only a small amount of snow on the fields."_

Later still he said, _"This year we did not have huge dumps of snow . . . "_

6 inches of ice equates to a heck of a lot of snow. 8O Not at all the same as "_a small amount_" or "_not huge dumps_".

We are all prone to exaggeration when making a point (except me of course!  :lol: :lol: ) but it can, and often does lead to misunderstanding and conflict, especially with the written word and no body language to be read.

I suggest a burying of the hatchet and let's start the New Year with *Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All Men*. 

Dave


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> I agree with Penquin's note of caution - not a good way to start the New Year.
> 
> I also suspect some of the comments arose from inconsistencies in Stewart's posts! :?
> 
> ...


I am certainly not prone to exaggeration. The examples I gave were over a few days and I cant be bothered going into it any further.

That's it from me, off to see where I can spend the £10 I'm going to save.

Bye

Stewart


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Penquin said:


> 1302 said:
> 
> 
> > "Earth calling Stewart"...
> ...


Forgive me - I thought everyone was blessed with a sense of humour - even the scots '

If 'that' requires' further action' then I am truly puzzled 



Smiley overdose for those that havent yet grasped the 'details' within the internet.


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## jasonb (Feb 27, 2009)

well said stewartwebr


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Going back to me earlier post on page 1 of this thread, it's just occurred to me that when at Meathop, I'd decided to "cut & run" the day after the big snow fall on the Saturday (wasn't really safe to leave on the access roads, but I could see from the forecast that it wouldn't get any better for days & days...so I decided there was a risk of me crashing on the perilous approach slope but I might as well go ahead & risk it rather than sitting worrying about that eventuality : slowest I've _ever_ driven a vehicle). The wardens were understanding, gave me the best advice they'd heard from locals about which roads were passable and *refunded me the cancelled nights*, despite it by then being late afternoon and me not actually asking for a refund. Personally, I consider that good customer service on the part of CC's reps.

Appreciate that may be not what a couple of people on this thread want to hear, but if anyone disagrees I won't feel compelled to cancel my membership. :wink:


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

It is often the fear of being blamed or sued that creates the wrong health & safety cultures. The original intent of the health & safety legislation was to encourage common sense and to limit incompetence or negligence. The intent has been hijacked like many good intentions. Consequently, you have reports of CC wardens being told not to clear roads etc on site whereas where I work, my security staff willingly kept the site roads and car parking bays clear - they get the right kit to do it safely - because they thought it was silly not to do so.

Other times it is the inventiveness of staff! My health & safety manager told me he could only fill the washer bottle on the office cars with off the shelf, ready diluted mix. When I explained to him that he had allowed me to take an office car when the external temperature was -12C, and the washer mix was only good for -7C as marked on the container, he started to mumble. I found that he could not be bothered to buy Decosol (recommended on this site?) because the local garage did not stock it nor could he be bothered to buy in stock because the containers would need to be kept under lock and key (office policy is all chemicals are kept locked away). So to cover his apathy, he had invented a new health & safety policy. 

Managers have a responsibility to take advice from the health & safety experts, challenge that advice when it seems nonsensical, and then make decisions based on risk. Unfortunately, too many managers have become indecisive and comfortable in a risk averse culture.

I suspect the wardens might be feeling the pain of indecisive management at CC HQ.


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## altom (Sep 12, 2009)

Just arrived back from Cirencester CC after a wonderful 4 days. Travelled from Newport with no snow on the ground, arriving at the CC with still 4 inches on the ground. 
The wardens had been working hard to clear in front of reception and the toilet blocks. They had also cleared the roadways and the hard standing areas on most of the site. 

Why are some people constantly getting on to CC wardens
They had done a fantastic job at Cirensester and made us all feel very much welcomed to the site. With the quantity of snow that did fall recently it was an impossible task to remove it from such large areas and site roadways

Thanks wardens of Cirencester


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

stewartwebr said:


> It would not have taken much to push the soft snow away as it fell preventing the build up which occurred and the prolonged danger as the ice thaws.
> Stewart





stewartwebr said:


> That's it from me, off to see where I can spend the £10 I'm going to save.
> 
> Bye
> 
> Stewart


????

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-97295-snow.html+shovels

Jason


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## kezbea (Jan 5, 2008)

This C/L at Bow did a good clearance for us and we had a lovely xmas and new year.


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