# How many times in actual fact weigh bridge issues



## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

I read a lot of posts on here about weight issues, the French seem to be more relaxed about this, so the question is ,how many people have been actually pulled over and taken to a weigh bridge in GB and or Europe and France in particular,( no silly puns jokes etc )lets really try to nail this once and for all. How keen are the authorities to check up on campers


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Not in 8 years use of which 3 is in France; weight gets checked at _Controle Technique_ to give information about required brake efficiency, but we have never been checked at any other time.

Dave


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

Ive never ever been stopped and taken to a weigh bridge , but if I was stopped I would be expecting them to use one of these by the side of the road .

http://www.homesteadcaravans.co.uk/reich-caravan-weight-control-orange-1500kg/

I always try to stay legal if you are involved in a accident and your over weight you don't have a leg to stand on as they say .

Paul


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

9 years regularly exceed 100 nights per year, lots of miles, lots of countries. NEVER been weighed.

Never seen anyone else being weighed either and Ive seen vans allmost dragging the ground. 


Jon


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

I've never been checked in over 8 years of motorhoming,have been past a few checkpoints though and the vehicles they seem to have pulled in are mainly commercial-overloaded trucks and vans that have just returned from a booze cruise.


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## froggy59 (Jan 18, 2009)

Never been checked in 7 years but try to stay within the legal limits.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

We've not been stopped over 40 years but, according to the August MMM magazine ( which has an excellent article on Weight Limits) we have been checked many, many times in either UK or Europe, by WIM ( Weight in Motion) machines which, it is said, have a reputation for being very accurate and measure the weight of each axle and send that, plus photo of number plate, to the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency ( ex- VOSA)

G


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## GordonBennet (Sep 22, 2010)

If you are overweight, your insurance will probably be invalidated straight away. So perhaps better questions would be "would you drive uninsured?" Or "Have you ever been stopped for having invalid insurance?" Or, most likely, "Would you be prepared to take the risk and drive without valid insurance?"

If you don't want to take the risk of driving uninsured and risking others too, and I'm sure you don't, then it's a no brainer surely?


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

> *GordonBennet *If you are overweight, your insurance will probably be invalidated straight away.


I would be interested to see any links or other authority you can point to in support of this. I think it's quite possible that an insurer would reduce or even decline to pay out for own damage or repairs in the event of an accident that could be proved to have been caused by overloading but I'm not sure that one's insurance (and particularly 3rd party cover) would necessarily be invalidated.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

peribro said:


> > *GordonBennet *If you are overweight, your insurance will probably be invalidated straight away.
> 
> 
> I would be interested to see any links or other authority you can point to in support of this. I think it's quite possible that an insurer would reduce or even decline to pay out for own damage or repairs in the event of an accident that could be proved to have been caused by overloading but I'm not sure that one's insurance (and particularly 3rd party cover) would necessarily be invalidated.


This from the C&CC Clubcare insurance:

How an Overweight Motorhome Can Affect Your Insurance

G


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## seanoo (Mar 31, 2007)

i was weighed on a portable weigh thingy just north of rennes about 3 years ago. gendarmes waved me in to a slip road for a aire de service and weighed me and my car trailer. a dutch camper was pulled in behind me as i was leaving as well. its the only time its happened but it shows it can happen. my auto trail has been uprated to 4200 by sv tech so i had no issues apart from the gendarme insisting that i was 3500 tonne because of the original weight plate. i showed him the v5 and he was ok then and waved me on. cheers sean


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

All the talk of insurance etc is digressing off this topic, keep it simple just answer the stated question, all the rest is for another topic ,of course nobody would drive without insurance thats a given, I just wanted US all to see what the actual chances are of being stopped for weight ONLY :?:


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi
You only have to be stopped ONCE. Can you afford to be in a lay bye/Weighbridge area,here or abroad unloading gear/WINE etc in the rain before you can carry on with your journey ? Plus the fine and points?. Do you care so little for your family/people in your m/home to risk their lives in the event of your overloaded vehicle failing to stop as the brakes cannot cope and being involved in a head on crash ?.
It beggars belief that some people do it regularly,weighing M/homes-C/vans IS on the increase and as said above,there are weight sensors built into the road surfaces in places. (Years ago,there was one just south of Normans cross island on the A1)
Coming out of Dover docks towards the customs post, there are the concrete humps,staff watch these humps on occasions,to see who is,"Belly to ground" on the suspension,a police m/cyclist may follow you from the Dock gates,up the road towards the M20,on the hill out of Dover sits a weighbridge,you could be pulled in there- maybe the police man/person is waiting there already and pull you in...
This DID happen to a mate of mine,above is how he was caught,he was booked for overloading of a m/home and told to unload some stuff before he carried on. Being as he and the officer were "Persons ?" of the world,my mate suggested if he was to stay in the l/bye until "Shift change ?" he could carry on,the officer said,"If you did happen to do that,you will have lost your licence before you get to Dartford tunnel".
When we were constructing the M1 up through sheffield,we were weighed often just past Owler Bar, overweight fine ? £1.00 per hundred weight was the fine,this did not help,as we were paid by the ..... Ton Doh !


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

I give up,thats the problem with forums, NO discipline to the topic and they all go meandering off and the thread gets lost in trivia, this was a tester, and its just proved it ,but in truth nobody has actually experianced this weigh bridge thing, the legality is nothing to do with it ,thats another thread DOH


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Not been weighed in 5 years driving in UK, France , Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, Poland and Slowakia.

i wonder wether the ANPR cameras twinnned with WIM sensors in the UK have links to weights of foreign vehicles - and vice-versa?

Geoff


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Zepp said:


> Ive never ever been stopped and taken to a weigh bridge , but if I was stopped I would be expecting them to use one of these by the side of the road .
> 
> http://www.homesteadcaravans.co.uk/reich-caravan-weight-control-orange-1500kg/
> 
> ...


1000Kg per wheel they quote in the spec so a bit limited for roadside use, also doubt if they can weight twin wheels.

Oops read a bit further and it says 1500Kg, confused.com

Martin


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Lots of "Nevers" on here already.

But Never say Never. The consequences of being stopped and found overweight could be , at the least, very inconvenient.


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

daffodil said:


> I give up,thats the problem with forums, NO discipline to the topic and they all go meandering off and the thread gets lost in trivia, this was a tester, and its just proved it ,but in truth nobody has actually experianced this weigh bridge thing, the legality is nothing to do with it ,thats another thread DOH


How can you state no one has when seanoo told us he had?
Did you not bother to read his reply?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

daffodil said:


> ,.....how many people have been actually pulled over and taken to a weigh bridge in GB and or Europe ...


Perhaps, as I said in my reply, people are no longer actually " pulled over and taken to a weighbridge" but are caught on camera having passed over a WIM machine.

At risk of going OT and incurring your scorn, though I think it is relevant to the topic: my OH put up a question some time ago about overhead gantries with cameras and lights that have started to appear on UK and European roads in the past 2 years or so. We do not know what they are but, I wonder if they are the cameras etc for WIMs embedded in the road below. We have seen several, never on toll roads but on non-tolled motorways and main roads.

G


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

How can you state no one has when seanoo told us he had?
Did you not bother to read his reply?[/quote] Daffodil I will get my head around this quote system one day ,but yes I read his post and its rude to infer I did not, but that was not my original question, mine was before all this new fangled stuff(and I accept it will be easier for them to check ) but before that how many had been caught adhoc by a passing police, Gendarme it was only to ascertain how urban myths start Like gassing etc, and as for the sarcastic remark about incurring my scorn it s quotes like that that deviate the post ENOUGH SAID


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

> quote = daffodil
> keep it simple just answer the stated question


Never in 36 years.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, daffodil, you certainly do get the award for the longest unintelligible sentence in your last post.

However, not wanting to be {offtopic} I can confidently state that I have never, ever, been pulled over and weighed by any roadside authorities.
Our MH now has 70,000 miles on the odometer.

Furthermore, to your original query, I cannot state with any confidence that the MH has not been surreptitiously weighed without my knowledge by automatic methods.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

daffodil said:


> ....and as for the sarcastic remark about incurring my scorn it s quotes like that that deviate the post ENOUGH SAID


Enough said by you perhaps but, when I take the trouble to answer your post- as I did- giving perfectly reasonable and relevant answers -as I did - and go on to use a word in a correct context, it seems rather rich to blame me for the decline in relevancy of the entire thread !

It is noted that you have made your, to use a less contentious word, dislike, of " off topic" posting in previous threads you started. I share that view in many cases but in the case of this thread, there is relevance in some of the remarks.

If you read the MMM article you will see that MHers are picked up and dealt with for being overweight so, it is not an urban myth.

G


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi.
 How many people ....etc. I gave you your answer about "Terry O. Last heard of in southern Spain. (I could supply name and address} AND the method of detection,so no fancy electronics there.
My post was ON TOPIC ! Someone could be forgiven into thinking it is just what you suggested,an "Urban Myth" Far from it,they are regularly pulling C/vans-M/homes into two places near me,Bingham and Sleaford and that's within a 45 mile radius.
Please don't shoot the messenger,experience teaches .
Experientia docet
Now there is a blast from the past..... wish i had "Tried harder".......


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

daffodil said:


> How can you state no one has when seanoo told us he had?
> Did you not bother to read his reply?


 Daffodil I will get my head around this quote system one day ,but yes I read his post and its rude to infer I did not, but that was not my original question, mine was before all this new fangled stuff(and I accept it will be easier for them to check ) but before that how many had been caught adhoc by a passing police, Gendarme it was only to ascertain how urban myths start Like gassing etc, and as for the sarcastic remark about incurring my scorn it s quotes like that that deviate the post ENOUGH SAID[/quote]

I was not in any way being rude, unlike yourself.
seanoo told us that he had been stopped & weighed. 
In your post over an hour later you stated that no one had.
The only logical conclusion, therefore, was that either you had not read his post or that you had chosen to ignore it as it contradicted your belief that no one has.


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

....


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Translate please.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Now that is Off Topic ! We're not interested in how you look Daffodil, only your considered views on MHF.

G


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Pippin.
It is a younger language than Latin, today's sort of,"Whatever" only stronger.


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

It's seanoo I feel for. He made an interesting, valid & on topic post only to be ignored.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

.......[/quote said:


> Oh dear! :roll:
> 
> I hope you have a tin hat and bunker daffo old chap.


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## prof20 (Jan 11, 2007)

Apologies to anyone who might be insulted by this clarification of another member's disgusting insult to all of us on this site. I have reported him for it , only the second time I have ever done it on this site.

I believe that he owes us all an apology.

Roger





forum helper note - your report noted Prof20; ALL references to the offensive comment have been edited out, no need to repeat it. 


and please get back on topic!


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

I have never been stopped for weighing, ever.

That's in all forms of road vehicles.

Peter


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Ooh, did I miss something really exciting like Daffy getting his panties in an uproar? Dammit. :roll:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

That which I asked for a translation of has now been edited out and replaced with four full-stops.

It seems a wise move in the circumstances.

I am even more upset because the daffodil (Cenyn Pedr), (one of the) the national emblem(s) of Wales has been slighted by its use as a nom de plume. 

Incidentally, I am weighed every morning - the second thing I do after getting up.

Every lost kilo is another one to be added to the available payload.

See, NOT {offtopic} at all :lol:


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

Never in the motor home, once in the transit works van with a pack of bricks in with 3 top rows taken off the top to get below one ton the maximum the van could carry legally. They looked put out when I was OK for my weight.

We stopped in Spain last year for some snap at a service station when a big lorry loaded with steel girders came in accompanied by a Police car, they made him drive over some air bags they carried and weighed each wheel.it took about half an hour, they impounded the trailer, he removed the cab part and he had to leave his load there until some of the load was removed, he did look back heavy as the steel was overhanging quite a lot..

So they do carry equipment in the back of the Police car to weigh anything, including us.. That is if they can be arsed :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

If it looks ok I think nobody would think of weighing us, if it looks iffy we have as much chance as anybody of getting pulled, how would the average plod know what you can carry as your payload, we don't on here as it probably is quite near a top subject behind gassing and toad threads and we are the "cough" experts :wink: .

ray.


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## anjasola (Jun 24, 2009)

Only once when the VOSA mob and the rozzers turned up at a horse show, when leaving the showground they diverted all the lorries into a layby with a weighbridge and checked for weight,defects and red diesel.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

pippin said:


> Incidentally, I am weighed every morning - the second thing I do after getting up.
> 
> See, NOT {offtopic} at all :lol:


The fact that you 'are weighed' as opposed to 'you weigh' suggests you need assistance. How high are your scales? You can put them on the floor, you know, they don't have to be on the worktop! :roll: :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Yep! We have been stopped several times in Switzerland. 

All in 2009. Stopped and weighed at Bagen not far from the Rhine Falls after leaving the Black Forest. They didnt believe a 7.5 metre van with a scooter on the back was under 3500KG so they took us round the back to a high tech weigh bridge and weighed us.

We were 40KG over. 8O However I had just filled the enitre Luton with cheap Pilsner Beer from Lidl in Germany which probably weighed 100KG!  I offered to sit at the border control with the blokes with the MP5 Machine guns and drink my way through 40 kilos worth and even suggested they could give me a hand but the bloody Swiss have no sense of humour so they just told us to bugger off.

We were quizzed at every border in and out of Switzerland that year but luckily Mr Sense of Humour Failure from Bagen gave us a print out saying we were sub 3500KG.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Tugboat - I have to be put in one of those sack things and hoisted off the floor with the scales hanging from sheer-legs.

I told you every kilo matters :lol:


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

How strange, a couple more people turned up who have been weighed & no more sarcy comments?


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

Before Andrew retired he was involved in stopping those who were considered driving overweight vehicles in Suffolk.

It was an easy bust, but education was the key and only repeat offenders were eventually taken to court. 

Motorhomes especially at weekends, full laided were an easy target. But mostly after guidance was given and quite often, a full water tank emptied, most were ok.

He talked to alot of insurers who told him that if they were in excess of 10% over the weight limit, then in the event of an accident they would "consider" their position. This was passed on to the drivers.

The law was at that time, that the police only had the powers to stop moving vehicles but other agencies (VOSPA, Trading Standards etc) could ask (under their statutory powers) a stopped vehicle to follow them to an appoved weighbridge. This normally had to be within an X mileage radius.

Just thought you may like to know.


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

DJP30 There have been no more sarcy comments your words not mine ,because A I dident start this thread to be sarcastic and B I have just come back after watching the super league final on telly, The last word in my so called Offensive post which was censored without any communication with myself stood for FIG.I do not swear but I dont have to justify myself to you of anybody else ,I really tried to get an accurate Feedback going, but as normal its being hi jacked by POINT SCORERS so if you want to score any more points crack on old boy :wink:


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

daffodil said:


> DJP30 There have been no more sarcy comments your words not mine ,because A I dident start this thread to be sarcastic and B I have just come back after watching the super league final on telly, The last word in my so called Offensive post which was censored without any communication with myself stood for FIG.I do not swear but I dont have to justify myself to you of anybody else ,I really tried to get an accurate Feedback going, but as normal its being hi jacked by POINT SCORERS so if you want to score any more points crack on old boy :wink:


Still no apology to seanoo for completely ignoring his reply either I see.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

I'm usually quite cautious about overloading (you have to be in a Rapido) and in ten years of motorhoming we've never YET been stopped for a weight check (fingers crossed), but I did speak to a fellow motorhomer earlier this year who had been pulled over in France.

Their van was found to be over the weight limit (can't remember how much but certainly less than 10%). They were issued with a fixed penalty which they had to pay on the spot (€90 IIRC) but were then allowed to continue on their way - still overweight and without any suggestion that they should try to reduce their load. 8O 
The gendarmes weren't interested in them reducing their load, just in gathering the money. I thought it a bit of a joke really, if it's unsafe to exceed the MIRO then surely they should have been made to reduce their weight before continuing their journey?

Or was it just a revenue gathering exercise? :?


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## SteveandSue (Aug 25, 2008)

Never in over 6 years and several countries - nearly got weighed at entrance to Dusseldorf show though - but thats another story.


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

I don't understand what the OP is trying to establish.

Possibilities are:

Do people get stopped? Evidently so given some of the replies in the affirmative above.

or

At what frequency do people get stopped? Impossible to tell even given that some have responded positively since you'd need significantly more respondents to have a credible sample.

If the answer is the latter of these possibilities, I'd be curious to understand what frequency the OP considers an acceptable/unacceptable risk.

I just don't see how you can "really nail this once and for all".

Perhaps the OP could clarify what it is that he is seeking to establish?

BTW, I have never been stopped in an estimated 300 journeys covering some 30k miles.

Ian


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

Bigtwin I was just intriqued how often if at all anybody had been pulled over, cold so to speak by the law and made to go to an official weighbridge, the thinking then was that some would possibly say yes and some no but it would be a self feeding poll for EVERYBODIES use ,so to answer the query from djp 30 i dident think i would have to acknowledge any or all one way or the other, but as normal it seems people like nitpicking and wont let anything go being so perfect themselves(NOT) , now I am orft to watch the Boxing as I have a life outside this forum .Ironic that its not seano bleating on about a so called apology maybe he understood the concept of the post in the first place


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Daffodil: I suspect that, even if everyone on here wrote a negative reply then it is not a reason for any of us to be complacent and assume overloaded MHs are not picked up.

Given that pulling over any vehicle is not the safest thing for any authority to do on a busy road or where traffic is moving fairly fast, then it seems that using WIMs is the way to go. They are cheaper to run and more effective. If my OH and I are right about the detectors we think we have seen then it is the way things are going. MMM seem to think there are increasing numbers too.

None of can say that we have not been clocked by one of them or assume that we will get away with it, if we do seriously overload.

Andrew's answer, above, is supported by interviews that both MMM magazine and the C&CC did with an ACVIS Leisure Vehicle Officer and with police and enforcement officers, who stress that their role, unless there is a clear case of serious overloading, is to "advise and educate the drivers of motorhomes that are only marginally overweight". They attempt to help you to redistribute the load so that is is safer but, last resort, will make you offload some of it.

G


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

> *Grizzly *
> Given that pulling over any vehicle is not the safest thing for any authority to do on a busy road or where traffic is moving fairly fast, then it seems that using WIMs is the way to go. They are cheaper to run and more effective. If my OH and I are right about the detectors we think we have seen then it is the way things are going. MMM seem to think there are increasing numbers too.


It may be that some of the detectors / cameras are indeed related to WIM's but I think that the authorities still have to pull the apparent offending vehicle over. I wouldn't have thought that photographic evidence is going to be sufficient as I imagine that it is the driver who needs to be prosecuted rather than the registered keeper.


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

I dont think we re likely to receive a fine from WIM machines in other countries because we havent signed up to the vehicle details sharing agreement thing with the EU. They dont know how heavy your vehicle is until you tell them or you are stopped.

While many 3500kgs MH s are overweight, most of them are only a bit over. I think as long as your not dragging the ground your unlikely to have a problem.

I think that in most cases the insurers would struggle to prove that 
your being 1-200kgs over caused the collision. Looking at the C&CC link - it says 'could' not 'does'.

I think most people have got their eye on it, but dont kick the arse out of it thats why is not seen as a massive problem ergo theres not hundreds of people being prosecuted for it. 

IMHO
Jon


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Good points both but surely one thing that MH's might have to look out for, with the advent of the WIMs, is whether there is an agreed limit to the degree of "overweight" set before a vehicle is pulled over ?

At the moment, with visual checks, only those whose rear axle is actually scraping the tarmac are pulled over. When visual checks are replaced by WIMs then any vehicle which is - say - 10 kg over the limit set ( and I assume that in UK anyway the authority will be able to check that via my registration number what weight my vehicle is plated for) could be pulled over. Who will set the limits for checking, local authority or nationally ?

Do the European authorities have access to our plated weights information via DVLA or whatever ? We are just about to uprate our van and I wonder if that information would be available over the channel.

G


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

The only weight on my V5C is the revenue weight but no MPLM. Presumably the DVLA computer, which is presumably DVSA(ex-VOSA) use, has only that info.

If they compare with only the MPLM field of the record they will find nothing. Does anyone know how the system actually works?

Geoff


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

WIM machines are used to catch grossly overweight HGV's and HGV's that ignore weight restrictions on weak bridges etc, the chances of them ever being used for motorhomes is exceedingly low indeed.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> WIM machines are used to catch grossly overweight HGV's and HGV's that ignore weight restrictions on weak bridges etc, the chances of them ever being used for motorhomes is exceedingly low indeed.


Do they even have the capability in terms of accuracy to detect an excess of 200kg if they are designed for 44t i.e. an accuracy of .0045% ?

Geoff


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

In response to the OP:

Yes we were waved into a layby by a Gendarme when heading north towards Cahors in June this year. They were stopping all white vans, local builders etc
but
When the operators realised we were a GB motorhome (PVC so not obvious from the front I guess) they just waved us through the checkpoint.

Steve


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

nicholsong said:


> The only weight on my V5C is the revenue weight but no MPLM. Presumably the DVLA computer, which is presumably DVSA(ex-VOSA) use, has only that info.
> 
> If they compare with only the MPLM field of the record they will find nothing. Does anyone know how the system actually works?
> 
> Geoff


Are they not the same thing?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Do they even have the capability in terms of accuracy to detect an excess of 200kg if they are designed for 44t i.e. an accuracy of .0045% ?
> 
> Geoff


According to the August 2014 MMM magazine

_ " Loads on individual axles can be compared against the records held by the DVLA using Remote Automatic Numberplate Recognition.

The WIM system has a reputation for being very accurate and not only measures the weight of each axle but takes a photo of the offending vehicle at the time of the offence.

The WIM systems are on several key motorways .....and work on all lanes, including the hard shoulder.

Given the system's efficency in catching offenders, its use may well become more common"_

G


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## readyforoff (Dec 28, 2013)

Lots of discussion as usual about something hardly anybody has experienced (being stopped for a weight check). We've never been stopped by anybody in authority for any reason anywhere in Europe in 40 years of travelling about by motorcycle , car and camping car. Also, in around a million miles of diesel powered travels I've never been checked for red diesel but I know what would happen if I put a thimbleful in....


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

> Grizzly said:
> 
> 
> > According to the August 2014 MMM magazine
> ...


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

That was the point of the original post readyforoff, now everyone KNOWS for certain how rare it is ,but I think these other interesting raised points could maybe alter that perception in the future time will tell :idea:


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

rayc said:


> > Grizzly said:
> >
> >
> > > According to the August 2014 MMM magazine
> ...


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

The trial you quote was 2005 to 2007. It's now 2014. The photos shown confirm what we thought; the overhead gantries we have seen both, being erected and in place, are part of the WIM network.

By all means assume that they are not used to weigh motorhomes. You might even be right. I don't know but think it entirely possible and, as such, a reasonable subject for discussion on a motorhoming forum. 

G


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

This, _ I think _, might be the VOSA reply to the request that SVTech submitted, under the FOI act, in November 2012. It is stated in the MMM article that they did so.

HERE

I hope the UK government weigh vehicles in order to have overweight ones taken off the road. I fear though that in some countries it might used purely as a means of raising revenue. We are easier targets.

G


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

I've never been stopped anywhere to be weighed or know of anyone else who has while driving a MH.

According to a link much earlier in this thread it quoted a guy called Tim Booth saying 'The total should exceed the MTPLM by no less than 10% to be considered sufficient tolerance for any slight overload of the vehicle.'

On that basis am I right in thinking that if my MH is plated at 3500kg then there is apparently a tolerance of up to 350kg I could add on without being in risk of prosecution for being overloaded – or not?

If the French authorities wanted to treat Motorhomes, and Caravans, as cash cows they should set up a weighbridge on all the approach roads to and from Calais and virtually wipe out the national debt of France in one fell swoop.

:wav: :wav: :wav:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Most overweight offences for motorhomes could be stopped in an instant if the C1 licence regulations were relaxed for non vocational drivers. Most 3500kg motorhomes are built with greater technical capabilities but are down rated to 3500kg for driver licence regulations. On a BE licence a driver can drive a combination up to a train weight of approx 7000kg so why limit a single vehicle to a MGW of 3500kg? 

The document linked to shows that for ;
EXCEEDING MAXIMUM PERMITTED 
GROSS WEIGHT - MANUFACTURERS PLATE that the likely action for being overweight are;
Being 5% or less Verebal Warning.
being 5% to 10% is TE160 {prohibition notice} plus £60 FPN.

There are similar penalties for exceeding axle weights and train weights.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

djp30 said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > The only weight on my V5C is the revenue weight but no MPLM. Presumably the DVLA computer, which is presumably DVSA(ex-VOSA) use, has only that info.
> ...


Maybe they should be but when I bought my MH second-hand it was plated(both Fiat and converter's plates) at 3500kg but had Revenue weight of 3850kg. Maybe another DVLA cock-up?

Geoff


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayc said:


> Being 5% or less Verebal Warning.
> being 5% to 10% is TE160 {prohibition notice} plus £60 FPN.
> 
> There are similar penalties for exceeding axle weights and train weights.


According to Tim Booth ( Leisure Vehicles officer for the Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service):

_ The legislation imposes fines of £5000 for each offence- so multiple axle overloading and exceeding MAM could result in a substantial fine. It's often dealt with a fixed penalty notice of £200.
Where things ranp up is when the vehicle is considered so dangerously overloaded that the driver can be prosecuted for the offence of dangerous driving. This offence carries a maximum penalty of two years imprisonment.

As a general rule if you exceed the permitted load by up to 10% of plated weight, officers will seek to advise drivers about loading ...._

It then goes on to say that officers will advise about redistribution of the load but, in the event that this is not possible, will prohibit further movement of the vehicle until sufficient load has been removed to allow the vehicle to comply with its plated weight.

Surely we are coming at this discussion from the wrong end ? If your vehicle is overloaded then tyres, brakes and so on are stressed beyond what is considered safe. No matter that you could be fined; you could be endangering your family and other road users. That's what matters I think.

G


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

The problem is, in my opinion, is that people are selfish in our thinking, especially when we get into our vehicles. I think it's a psychological thing. It's my space so I'll decide what I do with it!

"I judge the chances of being caught are minimal so I'll ride over weight regardless of your safety." 

"I judge the chances of being prosecuted for speeding are low so I'll speed and ignore the damage I'll do to you in the event I run over you" 

" I use my phone when driving because my social life is more important that your safety"

" I've only had two pints and I can handle my drink. In fact I drive better when I've had a drink"

"I can't afford to insure my vehicle but the chances of having a crash are low, so I'll do it and hang the consequences. It's your fault for getting in my way."

These are just some of the immediate ones that come to mind that occur on a daily basis. We all do it sub-conciously when living our lives, in all sorts of situations, but when we get behind the wheel we stand to cause life ending or changing effects to others. It's always been human nature to be selfish but it does seem to be getting worse. Or am I just getting old and remember a fictitious dreamtime when people were more considering of others?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayc said:


> > Grizzly said:
> >
> >
> > > According to the August 2014 MMM magazine
> ...


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

This is most tedious.. The first thing when buying a motor home is what will it carry... If it will not carry much payload it is only good for short breaks, if you are going to be away for weeks or months get one that can carry anything and everything you will need..

The pay load on my Hymer is 1.5 tons, more left than many have to start with when I carry everything I need..

ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up.
> 
> This is most tedious.. The first thing when buying a motor home is what will it carry... If it will not carry much payload it is only good for short breaks, if you are going to be away for weeks or months get one that can carry anything and everything you will need..
> 
> ...


Ray

I agree, and that post should be sent to every Dealer with a request to advertise the available payload for each MH on the forecourt. Is it just UK or are Continental dealers, and buyers, not interested?

It is also a subject that the MH press do not cover adequately - advertising self-interest per chance?

Are we buyers just uneducated or too weak to say:

'Mr. Dealer you want me to part with £40,000 and make you a £5,000 profit? Now I want to come down to the weighbridge with you, or I am walking away'

Geoff


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Surely the issue is partly our fault; the motorhome buyers ?

We want more and more gizmos and add-ons, we want stronger and more substantial furniture and fittings, we want to carry more and more home comforts with us. Manufacturers and converters are only responding to what they have been told and what they know will sell.

The point has now been reached when a van with a maximum weight of 3500 kg is not sufficient for the perceived needs of many. UK licencing rules are complex but perhaps the way to go is for these to be reformed and revised so that manufacturers and convertors can legally exceed the current figures and most people can still drive the product.

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

The first and only criteria Sandra goes by when buying a car is "Do I like the colour", the same probably goes when most folk buy a motor home, is it flash with fancy headlamps and has it got "everything" in it..

When maybe at the top of the list should be, "how am I going to use it" and will it be able to do it, then buy accordingly, if you get something that is not fit for your purpose, there is no point in bleating on that I can't carry what I want as I will be overloaded, it is only a simple question on here or from who ever is selling you the van what will it carry as pay load..

Maybe you can afford X amount which buys a van that will have limitations, then you live with the limitations, if you can afford a van that can exceed what you want and still buy a van that is pleasing to the eye or more probably pleasing to the wife's eye and does not give you the capacity what you want, then more fool you!.

ray.


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

Grizzly said:


> Surely the issue is partly our fault; the motorhome buyers ?
> 
> We want more and more gizmos and add-ons, we want stronger and more substantial furniture and fittings, we want to carry more and more home comforts with us. Manufacturers and converters are only responding to what they have been told and what they know will sell.
> 
> ...


I agree to an extent but a lot of the vans mentioned are in the 3650 to 3850kg range so are already above the 3500kg threshold.
It seams themanufacturers are trying to hedge their bets by building on
chassis that can be plated above or below 3.5t at will therfore saving them money & reducing the number of different model options.

I recall last year the EU recognised the problem and gave government the opertunity to introduce a "leisure" 7.5t licence for owners of horse boxes, motorhomes etc. but they decided not to bother.

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...-driving-licence-breakthrough/_ch1_nw2805_pg1


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> Surely the issue is partly our fault; the motorhome buyers ?
> 
> We want more and more gizmos and add-ons, we want stronger and more substantial furniture and fittings, we want to carry more and more home comforts with us. Manufacturers and converters are only responding to what they have been told and what they know will sell.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this.

The whole issue needs a rethink.

Converters need to have a chassis with sufficient leeway to build to a reasonable standard a still leave a decent payload.

How and why the majority of motorhomes are front wheel drive beggars belief.

I suppose what we need is a legislation change, a reasonable 4.5 to 5 tonne rear wheel drive chassis produced.

It has to be safer for someone to drive a properly constructed and loaded 5 tonne van with some capacity to spare, than a 3.5 Tonner right on the limit or more likely overloaded.

Andrew


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## djp30 (Jan 9, 2012)

androidGB said:


> Grizzly said:
> 
> 
> > Surely the issue is partly our fault; the motorhome buyers.
> ...


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

djp30 said:


> androidGB said:
> 
> 
> > Grizzly said:
> ...


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## lipupfatty (Sep 3, 2008)

*weigh bridge issues*

Greetings
Vosa pulled infront of me in a ' Follow Me' van and escorted me into Taunton services on the M5 about 3 years ago. They checked over the van and had a portable weigh bridge, small thing that I had to drive onto and weighed each axle independently. Advised me that I had a leaking bush on the front left, but no hassle as I was legal.
They pulled over quite a few vans as there was a small queue of us waiting to be checked.
Spoke to the guys doing the checks and they told me, this week Motorhomes, next week caravans.
My van was 15 years old at the time, so whether they just check older vans, who knows, can't remember about the others pulled as I just wanted to be on my way.
Just be legal , as if you aren't, and in the event of an accident , you will not be covered by your insurance, your fault or not.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

djp30 said:


> The main reason for the popularity of the FWD chassis is that it allows for a lower floor height(as preferred by the buyers) & CofG.


Or maybe it is the vehicle that Fiat produce and is chosen by converters for financial reasons.

I ceased to be convinced of the desirability of a FWD vehicle, when I observed one struggling to get on to it's leveling ramps on a slight incline (the vehicle was at right angles to the incline) so that weight on the already light front end was transferred across the vehicle, causing the unloaded wheel to spin

Andrew

PS this was at the Great Dorset Steam Fair so they didn't have the option of parking elsewhere.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I have had slight wheelspin on FWD vehicles under certain conditions but generally speaking, FWD is an improvement.

I remember driving RWD cars on ice and snow when getting to your destination was a throw of the dice.  

Gone are the days when you needed a paving slab in the boot to improve handling. :lol:


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

747 said:


> Gone are the days when you needed a paving slab in the boot to improve handling. :lol:


That would be in a RWD car, additional weight to improve traction.

Which demonstrates my point with a FWD motorhome where the majority of weight is carried by the rear axle, this is the opposite of what you require for good traction.

Unfortunately despite what the manufacturers may tell you, they can't as yet, change the laws of physics 

Andrew


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

androidGB said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> > Gone are the days when you needed a paving slab in the boot to improve handling. :lol:
> ...


I am on my second tag axle van, so the analogy does not apply. With nearly 2 Tonne on the front axle and a long wheelbase with 2 axles to share the load, I don't get much trouble with lack of traction. I do agree with you though, especially with these vans with big overhangs behind the rear axle. This only makes the problem worse.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

This brings back troubled memories of driving my Hillman Imp in a gale across the (then new) Severn Bridge.

Nearly took off!


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