# Caravan Club survey on booking arrangements



## Rosbotham

Apologies if this has already been posted, but here's your chance to comment on the CC's booking arrangements. They're having a survey here, available if you're a member.

Paul


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## RichardnGill

Thanks for the link

I have filled it in, but doubt it will make any difference 

Lets hope they do start taking deposits and we can all have a chance of getting on to some of the sites at busy times.

Richard...


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## Penquin

I have filled it in, but am concerned that they will only publish a summary - there is a suspicion that views which are contrary to the heirarchy will conveniently be lost. :roll: 

Interesting that the final question only allows ONE choice when many people tried several ways of booking and failed. 

It will be interesting to see if they adopt any ideas put forward by members - but I will not hold my breath! :evil: 

Dave


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## Briarose

Did anyone ever find out anymore about the last survey ref dogs ?


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## bigtwin

Survey completed.

Lets hope that some changes are made to the booking arrangements. 

I mean, every other organisation in the travel/leisure industry require deposits, if not full payment, well before the day of travel/arrival!!!!!


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## b2tus

We are newbies to the M/H world and will not join the CC until they start charging substantial deposits for bookings.

In fact, we have just joined the C&CC.

Wonder if any hierarchy at the CC club access this site and note the various comments.

We are going to the NEC show in Feb, will visit the CC stand and make our feelings known. Doubt it will get reported to the CC management but worth a shot.


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## bigfoot

b2tus said:


> ........
> 
> Wonder if any hierarchy at the CC club access this site and note the various comments.


If they are cop a load of this; do something about the abuse of the booking system,if C&CC take deposits when booking why can't you.
Or are you so remote and detached from the membership,you are more concerned turning 'a club' into a 'blue chip' organisation.
Take you heads out from your posteriors and look at whats happening!!!!!


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## reflogoff11

Have completed the survey, I felt that the questions posed did not adequately cover the difficulty one has in booking a long stay. 

I have mostly found that weekends are taken, leaving only weekdays available, preventing the booking of a long stay. 
As already stated with the last question I was unable to answer it to my satisfaction.

Barrie.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Just a try to satisfy members that book weekends in advance and do not turn up if the weather forcast is poor.
Non refundable deposits would make sure that the club recieves revenue and placements.

Dave p


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## NEV3

I agree with Barrie. 

We probably have the same opinions about bookings months in advance for the weekends only,as I also prefer longer stays at relatively short notice.

The only input you can put into the survey about this (which I have) is in the comments section at the end. 

I wonder if they will read them?

NEV3


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## peedee

The club has repeatedly said to me that no shows are not a problem, I do not think charging a deposit will make one bit of difference, it didn't in the past and is not likely to in the future. If the real problem is too many members per pitch and congestion at weekends then charging deposit ain't going to fix the problem. Much better to limit bookings to members only and to limit the number of bookings per member by nights 

I can see this could pose a problem for touring if you wanted to go from club site to club site but in reality how many of us do this and would "X" number of nights be a way round this?

Wouldn't a better solution be to limit the number of weekends you can book?

If as the club has said, it has all the data, I am amazed they are even bothering to ask. Could this survey just be for show????

Some of my thoughts.


peedee

ps edited to correct typos.


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## roamingsue

Limiting the number of advance bookings that can be made would be an excellent idea OR a deposit system.


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## greygit

Briarose said:


> Did anyone ever find out anymore about the last survey ref dogs ?


Yes, I would be interested to see the result as well.
Gary


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## Mikemoss

I suspect an increaasing number of us will find an answer to the problem of finding space at CC sites - ignore them and use CLs or CS-type sites instead. 

Surely the freedom of using a motorhome is at odds with the rigorous forward-planning that now seems to be involved in booking a pitch at a CC site?

The one option I quite warmed to in their survey was the one about reserving a set number of pitches on each site for those who turn up on the spur of the moment.


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## Solwaybuggier

I've done survey and agree with everyone about deposits - *but *I'd hate them to emulate the C&CC booking system in making bookings at certain times for 2 or even 3 nights minimum (and said this in reply to their last question.) This discriminates against those - often MHers - who move on every day in favour of those - often caravans or large tents - who stay and use site as a base for several days.


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## 04HBG

Just filled the survey in and suggested an Aire type area for motorhomes.

You could park 8 motorhomes in the space taken up by 3 caravans as most motorhomers would not need all the space to put up awnings and have cars parked alongside.

They could reduce the cost to reflect the smaller pitch and to encourage motorhomers to use them thus freeing up pitches for caravans.

RD


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## bigfoot

I have also completed the survey and menmtioned the booking system.
Having done research involving surveys,they can be skewed to say what you want to hear.
For instance the Mersey tunnel operators are threatening an increase in toll charges. People have been argueing the case as with the Skye Bridge and Dartford crossing. The commissioned survey had stated that scrapping tolls would cause an increase in congestion.
For fear of going off topic read here
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...rsey-tunnel-tolls-are-removed-92534-25730421/


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## camper69

04HBG said:


> Just filled the survey in and suggested an Aire type area for motorhomes.
> 
> You could park 8 motorhomes in the space taken up by 3 caravans as most motorhomers would not need all the space to put up awnings and have cars parked alongside.
> 
> They could reduce the cost to reflect the smaller pitch and to encourage motorhomers to use them thus freeing up pitches for caravans.
> 
> RD


You would never get that 8O My god what about the regulation 5 metres 

Derek


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## Spacerunner

I have suggested that permanent/seasonal pitches are against the founding principles of the club. After all it is a club for tourers. If people want to stay in one place for months then they should be using static sites or hotels.


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## peedee

I think that is a good point Spacerunner but I suspect seasonal pitches are confined to less popular or the more remote sites. 

04HBG I think your idea has merit, the ruling is actually 6 meters between the walls of adjacent caravan. You can still place a car and an awning in the gap. Given it is easier to move a motorhome away from an adjacent one on fire, I don't see why this could not be reduced to something like 4meters. However, it maybe that this is a license ruling, certainly there are many private sites that apply it.

Just a few more thoughts.

peedee


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## grumpyman

I visited Rowntree just over a week ago. Told when I got there to only park on a red post marked pitch as that was what I had booked. Yes I said as the web page shows all others fully booked, are you? The answer was probably yes. Anyway for the next 3 days there around 30 empty pitches until it filled up Friday evening. :wink:


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## JockandRita

Off to complete the survey shortly, and thanks to Rosbotham for the "heads up".



peedee said:


> 04HBG I think your idea has merit, the ruling is actually 6 meters between the walls of adjacent caravan.


Not wishing to go "off topic", you are absolutely right Peedee, and I do believe the ruling also suggests, no less than 3 metres at any other point, ie, back to back, or corner to corner.

From a safety point of view, these rulings do give folks a greater safety margin, and much needed time to vacate their unit from a neighbouring pitch where there may be a fire situation. It also allows for good emergency access to pitches where there aren't any roadways, subject to terrain obviously.

When a caravan, (or the habitation area of a MH) goes up in flames, they go in seconds, literally. 8O 8O 8O

As much as I love the "Aires" and "Stellplatz" style of MH'ing, they sadly, will never become an item here in the UK.

Regards,

Jock.


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## Briarose

greygit said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone ever find out anymore about the last survey ref dogs ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I would be interested to see the result as well.
> Gary
Click to expand...

What a coincidence the results are in this months mag, I have posted in the pet forum.
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-785044.html#785044 the magazine said they had a big response I would suspect alot of that was due to MHF :lol: :wink: as had the topic not been posted about here, I don't think many of us would have known about either this survey or the pet one.


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## HurricaneSmith

Rosbotham said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but here's your chance to comment on the CC's booking arrangements. They're having a survey here, available if you're a member.
> 
> Paul


Thanks Paul..........Survey duly completed requesting CC introduce a deposit.

We spent New Year at Blackshaw Moor on the edge of the Peak District and estimate a 70% no show.


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## peedee

Briarose said:


> I don't think many of us would have known about either this survey or the pet one.


I think your right. Its damed hard to find anything other than what they are selling  I nearly always revert to the search facility for a clue. I couldn't get the search for a site via the mapping facility to work the last two times I have tried!

peedee


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## duxdeluxe

Thanks for the heads up.... 

My comments quoted as follows:

"Some sort of upfront payment is essential - my view is that in this day and age the site fee is not huge unless a week or more is spent on site and should be easily affordable for almost all. Look at other holidays that the typical CC user takes..... Airplane tickets - usually paid in advance and limited refund, package holiday - full price some 6 weeks prior to departure, holiday cottage - full payment well in advance of departure. You would only be bringing the CC into line with the rest of the tourist industry, eliminate lost revenue due to no-shows, facilitate better planning, better cashflow and above all a fairer deal for the members"

They'll ignore it all of course....... I posted on the survey before reading all the replies to the thread and a lot of good ideas are there


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## brianamelia

Personally Ive got no problems with the CC club booking system.I have 2 young kids so we know when we can go and make our bookings early around school holidays. I find it a much better and easier system than the CCC with their minimum nights rule and deposits. and I have very rarely seen empty pitches on the sites we have visited.
Bri


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## H1-GBV

Yes - thanks for that "heads up". I have completed the survey and hope something changes, although I'm not too sure what. I want better service but I'm not too sure how it will happen.

I enclose a copy of my written response:
"Some very good ideas expressed in the survey, especially in relation to limiting the number of advanced bookings. Although non-refundable charges SOUND attractive, perhaps it would be better to allow deposits to be "stored" and used against future bookings - this would encourage cancellation rather than "no show" and no info.
As a motorhomer, I like the freedom to move on frequently and to travel without planning months in advance. I regularly find that a site is "full" on the internet but has availability if I ring or turn up. I assume this is down to a number of fellow members ringing to cancel at the last moment. Do you provide information anywhere (short of via "Freedom of Information Act") on how many no-shows occur, which sites get the most no-shows, how many members book but fail to arrive on more than 3,5,10 occasions? What steps have been taken against the worst offenders? How many members has this affected? I am not suggesting "naming and shaming", but is there any regional trend in this abuse of our system?"

Gordon


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## Sgt411

Perhaps the answer is to keep the system as it is but bring in a "2 strikes and your out" i.e. if you fail to turn up or cancel say 7 days in advance on two separate occasions without a reasonable excuse, i.e. illness, family emergency or problems at work etc, then you will be unable to make any future advance bookings for the remainder of the season and the following season.

Keith


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## richardjames

I have to say that I like the system as it is - there is nothing wrong with it in so much that members should be considerate and have the courtesy to advise sites when a problem arises. I have had recent problems with MIL which has caused me to cancel - the problem has now been resolved, so yes I have been guilty of cancelling at short notice but I have made the point of contacting the club site directly so that the booked spot could be freed


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## pete4x4

I don't see why you can't have a booking secured against a credit card and if you don't show or cancel in advance you pay for a night, same as hotels and that works.

I would hope that would sort out multiple bookings 'just in case'.


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## peedee

IMO this still would not stop multiple bookings by greedy members. I have only ever had a problem trying to get a pitch on the hot sites, Rowntree Park and Chatsworth, but I have still been to both. I think the best answer is to limit weekend bookings to 2 at any one time. I cannot think of a drawback to this, weekdays are rarely full except in peak periods and it would mean you could not book up every bank holiday as soon as bookings opened or if there was a rolling systems. It would give others a chance.

peedee


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## Briarose

Last Nov we wanted to book Ferry Meadows at Peterborough, I checked the CC website and it sold the weekend fully booked, we wanted to book Sat to Thu as our Son had already booked for that week, we said we would have to join them on the Sunday or Monday. 

We then decided to ring the site direct and were told that there were a few pitches left, yet when we got there on the Saturday there were loads of empty pitches and it remained that way all over the weekend, the weather was good for the time of year no snow, ice etc so had we believed the CC website they would have lost out on our booking.


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## richardjames

If I'm stuck I find it very often pays off to 'phone the site 8O


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## brianamelia

peedee said:


> IMO this still would not stop multiple bookings by greedy members. I have only ever had a problem trying to get a pitch on the hot sites, Rowntree Park and Chatsworth, but I have still been to both. I think the best answer is to limit weekend bookings to 2 at any one time. I cannot think of a drawback to this, weekdays are rarely full except in peak periods and it would mean you could not book up every bank holiday as soon as bookings opened or if there was a rolling systems. It would give others a chance.
> 
> peedee


I don't see why im presumed greedy because I book multiple dates when I can travel which is the school holidays. Dont forget everybody has the same chance to book the same dates nobody has an advantage over anybody else
Bri


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## Briarose

brianamelia said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO this still would not stop multiple bookings by greedy members. I have only ever had a problem trying to get a pitch on the hot sites, Rowntree Park and Chatsworth, but I have still been to both. I think the best answer is to limit weekend bookings to 2 at any one time. I cannot think of a drawback to this, weekdays are rarely full except in peak periods and it would mean you could not book up every bank holiday as soon as bookings opened or if there was a rolling systems. It would give others a chance.
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see why im presumed greedy because I book multiple dates when I can travel which is the school holidays. Dont forget everybody has the same chance to book the same dates nobody has an advantage over anybody else
> Bri
Click to expand...

Haven't I read on here that OAPS get first choice on a special day ..........or have I dreamt that ?


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## stephenpug

Last year we hardly had any holidays in cc sites because my wife works in a school so only school holidays and i am a Butcher so no saturdays off every where we tried was fully booked so another year older and another year wiser we have pre-booked every bank holiday and weekend we can but we will go and not just book for the sake of it and any other genuine motorhomer/caravaner i am sure would not mind paying a deposit to secure their holidays and the future of the cc as i dont think it can run only on subsciptions and the few members who do bother to show up :wink:


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## richardjames

brianamelia 
I totally agree with you on that score - we are stuck with school holidays


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## peedee

[quote="brianameliaI don't see why im presumed greedy because I book multiple dates when I can travel which is the school holidays. Dont forget everybody has the same chance to book the same dates nobody has an advantage over anybody else
Bri[/quote]

The club would agree with you that everyone has the same chance but in the eyes of many who have complained on this site and others, there are a lot of thoughtless and greedy members. You only have to search the forums on this topic to realise that. Why else do they want change?

I have never conceded that deposits are necessary and I do not have a problem with the current system but I do agree obtaining a pitch at weekends on many sites or in peak periods is difficult. However I do not think asking for deposits is the solution.

Limiting bookings to two weekends at any one time does not stop anyone from advance booking.

peedee


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## brianamelia

*reply*

Hi Peedee
Playing devils advocate here I wonder if stopping people without kids booking in school holidays would help, as adult only sites seems to have worked maybe its a plan
Bri


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## rugbyken

have filled in survey asking for ability to book single nights whilst touring do not expect any leeway as when i queeried why couldn't do so was told that as a member i had voted for that


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## homenaway

rugbyken said:


> have filled in survey asking for ability to book single nights whilst touring do not expect any leeway as when i queeried why couldn't do so was told that as a member i had voted for that


I'm sure we have booked single nights at Caravan Club sites 

It's the Camping and Caravanning Club that don't let you advance book a single night but we usually phone the day before or in the morning to check if they have a pitch.

Steve


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## bognormike

thnaks for highlighting this - just back after a while away, and have filled in the questionnaire - in favour of deposits.

my comments:-
The booking stystem is skewed towards caravanning members rather than motorhomers becuase caravanners tend to book a long period ahead and stay longer than motorhomers who normally stay a couple of nights and move on. Not to tak a deposit makes it easy for people to call off a visit at the last minute with no penalty. We have been to CC sites on many occasions when the site is supposedly full, and there have been several pitches vacant. Also we have been frustrated to not be able to get a pitch when booking for weekends when others who have been on the same site that was fully booked found there were empty pitches. 
Surely the CC is the only organisation in the leisure industry that doesn't take deposits for bookings, and the club must be missing out on revenue becuase of this.
Look at the biggest motorhome website www.mtorhomefacts.com and see the anger that is raised by the CC's boking system!"

note that members only have until the end of this month to post their feelings.


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## Briarose

We were at Ferry Meadows last week, the lady said it was OK to stay until Fri as then they would be full for the weekend for half term weekend, by Friday there had been a number of cancellations due to the weather forecast and I guess others that hadn't even bothered to ring.............so we could have stayed longer if we wished. We wondered however how many folk had been refused pitches in that previous week on phoning up etc to be disappointed when in fact they would have got on the site, I wonder if all those that had booked and then cancelled would have done so had they paid a deposit.......shame that others are losing out though.


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## bognormike

Brairose - silly isn't it? We were on the CC site at Hawes (brown moor?) in April last year in that wonderful spring weather, and managed to get pitches at short notice, but despit it apparently being full, there were some spare pitches. We had to go in the morning, and checked to see whether they had any cancellations, but we had to leave. You can bet your life there were spaces that night, they lost out on a night's money there......


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## Briarose

Yes very silly Mike, it would have been interesting to have had a look round that night and see just how many empty pitches there were.

This isn't the first time for us that this has happened at Ferry Meadows as it was the same one weekend before Xmas, the website was showing full, we phoned and managed to get a pitch, but on the night in question I would estimate it was at least 25% empty...........now had we took notice of the website alone we wouldn't have even gone there.

Not a good way for the CC to run a business is it ?


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## bognormike

I note there's a summary of the survey posted on the CC site - for those of you who are not member s(and any link would not work), the text is here:-

"UK sites bookings survey

UK Sites booking arrangements fell under the spotlight in our first "Club Matters - You talk, We listen" topic in February's Magazine. Thanks to the 1,200 of you who took time to share your views.

As the golden key to using UK Sites, booking is a topic close to many members' hearts and not surprisingly generates strong feelings. There was a real diversity of views and satisfaction around our current arrangements, reflecting the varied experiences of people taking part: 1/3rd had succeeded in making all or some of their desired bookings on Peak Bookings Day whereas 2/3rds had not booked on this day (split equally between those who had been unsuccessful and those that didn't wish to make any).

Bringing back deposits, introducing limits on amounts of bookings per household and taking card details upfront for all bookings and debiting one night's stay for no shows/late cancellations each gained reasonable support; many suggestions were put forward for future improvements. All feedback will go into the melting pot for a review of future plans in 2011.

How best to deal with the very small number of members who make lots of bookings then don't show and/or cancel very late? Most supported restricting their future booking activity and/or charging upfront rather than removing membership. The Club has recently written to a small number of members regarding their booking/arrival patterns and this will continue.

10% actively like to book several months in advance, half said they would prefer not to but feel they must in order to secure desired sites/dates and13% don't like to book ahead and rarely do so. Getting exact holiday dates is very important for a minority, mostly groups with children for obvious reasons."

they continue to say they have written to a "small number" of members - in view of the comments in Gerryd's thread about his meeting with the CC chairman - how big is a "small number"? And are they really looking at the late cancellations or just straight no-shows?


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## Jented

Brianamelia.
If you want to play Devils advocate properly,ban anyone who has a m/home or a caravan,game on. Lol Jented


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## carol

*Now a Technology Survey by 1st May*

Just completed the new survey

Here are a few copies of my answers to some of the questions:

I would like to be able to have put 02 for home but your system didn't allow it as well as an 02 dongle.... and yes do apps, but PLEASE include CL's as we can't afford your extortionate fees for the sites that are now required, so we use the CL network...which is also becoming a lot more expensive.

Why not allow for overnight parking, or for use of the sites for washing, emptying and filling for say 3 or 4 hours, as the Camping and Caravan Club do.

I also think that your survey is so biased, and you should be ashamed, what about MOTORHOME OWNERS, we make up a lot of your annual membership and probably are the ones using your sites more of the winter/off shoulder months..

Another answer:

Think I put all this earlier......

Make allowances for motorhomes, you are supposed to be a club that is for it's members.

One of our members, apparently spoke to the CEO at Peterborough and asked about aires, etc., and making the club allow access to motorhomes, for just overnight parking at a reduced fee etc., after all we have paid a lot more in most cases for our motorhomes than caravaners have, and we take up less space generally, and in our case, don't stay on site during the day, why, because we have moved to the next site, except perhaps once in 10 or 14 days when we need to do laundry.

The beauty of a motorhome is that you do NOT have to plan, if the weather is not good, you move on to where it is better, and therefore you do NOT want to have to book at Christmas for your sites for the year.

STOP BLOCK BOOKING at Christmas and make people pay for booking - the C&CC does, and you have no shows, because people don't stand to lose anything and therefore they don't think of others.

If you wish to discuss this further you can email me at _(e-mail address removed as a security precaution by Moderators)_

When the club introduced electric included in their prices, I conducted a survey of our members, and presented it to the then CEO who said it was for legal reasons, it has now been proved that it is not necessary to do this and you have removed our freedom to choose. Yet the CEO promised to revue it in a year, did he, well he didn't and doesn't listen to half of his membership and if you happen to be a member of www.motorhomefacts.com you will see many comments on there, to your attitude, and you are losing members due to it.

I hope you do reply.....

BUT I BET THEY DON'T

Carol


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## homenaway

A great post Carol  

I must have a look at the latest survey on their website.

I think one of the problems for motorhomers in the Caravan Club is the way different interest groups are (not) represented compared to the structure of the Camping Club where I believe the Motorcaravanners etc have a voice in the regional and national committees.

We thought about visiting a CC centre rally (do any MH's attend?) but it's too complicated to register and book, whereas we have just turned up and welcomed at C&CC meets and Temporary Holiday Sites.

Have any motorhomers visited a CC regional members meeting and are all the points raised in AOB reported in the magazine?

Steve


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## Penquin

Great post Carol,

I have put in some similar comments but suspect it will all fall on deaf ears as they do not want to hear.

As Mike has shown the intepretation of the bookings survey is not very helpful and they will review it in 2011 so don't expect any changes before 2013 at the earliest.

I have suggested that they start a forum since the club should be run for the members as it is a members club and the members opinions are not welcomed furthering the "us and them" reputation that the Club has.

I pointed out that it is not run in a democratic manner..........

but I suspect I will never here anything more...

Dave


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## brianamelia

I think the CC club is the best run organisation in the Uk bar none.We pre book, and use the late availability frequently ,and because we have kids have to do that.I can see the problems other people have but it never stops us from going away .I ve just accepted thats the way they do it and book where and when I can.Which is not possible with the CCC booking system due to the restrictive minimum night booking policy.I must add I am not a fair weather traveller and dont cancel booking due to weather as the clock is ticking the kids are getting older so we cram in as much as possible.
Bri


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