# Exit Passport Checks



## emjaiuk

I'm sure there's been a post on this subject before, but I can't find it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31619058

These are new checks when leaving the UK, where you occasionaly see a Kent policeman. I'm not looking forward to the queues!

Malcolm


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## bognormike

thanks malcolm

new requirement by Eurotunnel
http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/advance-passenger-information/

presumably the feries are doing similar.
It's always been a bit silly that there are loads of checks at airports when you leave the country, but none when you go via ferry or the tunnel.

So when you get to the passport control gate at the tunnel at Folkestone, instead of the French Douane man doing a crossword or eating a sandwich while you wave your passports at him, he will have to check the passports like the UK man does in Calais.......


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## stevegos

Security seems to be getting tighter everywhere.

Not motorhome related but we just flew out through Stansted last week. There were massive queues at security like I've never seen before. They seems to be stopping about 50% of people going through. 

My wife's bag was tagged for extra checks and we had to wait 30mins before they got to it. They then tested the bag for explosives residue and it tested positive! They didn't seem to know what to do about a positive test and we had to wait 20mins for someone to turn up with the book about what to. First page of the book said do another test which was negative and they let her go. Good job we arrived early as we could have missed the flight.


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## emjaiuk

emjaiuk said:


> I'm sure there's been a post on this subject before, but I can't find it
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31619058
> 
> These are new checks when leaving the UK, where you occasionaly see a Kent policeman. I'm not looking forward to the queues!
> 
> Malcolm


I think you're missing the point slightly. It's the UK immigration who are going to be doing the checkson people leaving the UK, and compared to them the French move like greased lightning! The biggest problem I think is that the infrastructure isn't there, i.e. there is nowhere near the same number of booths going out as there is comin in, always assuming they're fully manned.

Malcolm


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## bognormike

but up until now, the French have done controls (what there are) at Folkestone because that's the border. Likewise, the Brits have done them at Calais.


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## 747

I expect it is just a knee jerk reaction to catch young Muslim men and women who are wannabe Jihadis. As usual, it will be badly thought out and difficult to implement.


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## nicholsong

Remember it is not long ago (?) that we dropped outbound controls.

As for Dover the British and Immigration controls were relocated to the opposite sides of the Channel, partly because at departure vehicles turn up spasmodically, so a steady flow, whereas on disembarkation they are all arriving at once, so a potential long queue, backing up to the ferry ramp.

At Dover outbound there are still two immigration booths; currently only the French one is manned, but the other one is still there - maybe the British would have to move into the first one, for emigration, and the French to the second, for immigration, to keep the process tidy.

Checks on passports for people leaving the country are a lot simpler and quicker, because they are really only concerned with what is on the various databases; there is not the questoning of non-EU citizens about the reasons for entering the country, the length of stay, the means they have to support themselves etc.

Geoff


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## emjaiuk

bognormike said:


> but up until now, the French have done controls (what there are) at Folkestone because that's the border. Likewise, the Brits have done them at Calais.


At the moment, when LEAVING the UK, you go past a UK point which is usually manned by Kent Police.and then the French ENTRY checks. Th proposal is for full UK checks on travellers LEAVING the UK before you get to the French entry checks. In other words the Kent Police point will become a UK emmigration check point manned by whatever immigration are called these days. As it used to be before the EU, What worries me is the possibility that the queues that seem to be a permanent feature at passport control will now ne a feature of leaving the UK , in fact they may be a lot worse due to the lack of outbound control booths

Malcolm

Malcolm


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## Mrplodd

There is little point in moaning about this. There is no option (other than to not travel!) 

Le tunnel have instigated a system similar to the airlines, you provide your details at the time of booking. We are all well used to that system and will simply have to do the same if going by Eurotunnel or a ferry! 

It's a sad sign of the times I'm afraid.


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## Stanner

I have come to the conclusion that it is the security industry that is sponsoring terrorism - they are making a fortune out of it.

Same as it was Interflora that put the contract out on Princess Diana.

>


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## wakk44

Stanner said:


> ....................
> 
> Same as it was Interflora that put the contract out on Princess Diana.
> 
> >


A pity we haven't got a dislike button for tasteless remarks like this.


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## greygit

wakk44 said:


> A pity we haven't got a dislike button for tasteless remarks like this.


Oh come on, lighten up.:grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear

Funny but in bad taste.


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## Stanner

It's no worse than many of the other "theories" behind that mystery.

And isn't it strange that certain "mysteries" are subject to endless official investigation until a perpetrator is found and others just ................ aren't.


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## pete4x4

Is it really going to be that bad as it is not a free for all as in Calais, it is timed to coincide with a train leaving so as long as the timing of the trains are set right then the queues should not be that bad and only as long as one train.


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## barryd

I don't really see how checking everyone's details who is leaving the country is going to make a difference to controlling illegal immigrants if that is the real reason for doing it which is what it said in the article. 

If someone stays illegally then presumably they go underground anyway.


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## bognormike

pete4x4 said:


> Is it really going to be that bad as it is not a free for all as in Calais, it is timed to coincide with a train leaving so as long as the timing of the trains are set right then the queues should not be that bad and only as long as one train.


yep, presumably the "call" for trains will be set a few minutes earlier.

an interesting thought, what about people who just turn up without a booking? it is possible, but as has been said before here, it's expensive! Would they have to wait at the check in terminals while somebody in the vehicle fills in the details of passengers and somebody official does the checks? Or a similar performance at the security gate? That could cause queues!!


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## erneboy

It's nonsense anyway. Anyone who doesn't want to be counted out or back in will just travel through N Ireland and leave or enter from the ROI, Alan.


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## nicholsong

Mrplodd said:


> Le tunnel have instigated a system similar to the airlines, you provide your details at the time of booking. We are all well used to that system and will simply have to do the same if going by Eurotunnel or a ferry!
> 
> .


Andy

There is a complication for the Ferries and Tunnel in trying to operate an 'airline type' systemof providing details at time of booking and that is the carrying of multiple passengers, which can be 8 in minibuses - leaving out the coaches for this consideration.

With an airline booking there is one ticket/boarding card and one passport per named passenger, which are checked against each other by security.

At present there is only one booking for the vehicle and no individual tickets, although one has to give names and passport numbers at time of reservation. This would allow prior checks to be done by Border Control.

However, it would seem that it would be necessary to stop each vehicle and check the occupants passports against the declared passenger list to ensure the passengers travelling are as declared. Of course this could be done just after check-in.

When trucks and coaches are booked can the operators be sure which driver/driver's mate/courier/tour guide will be travelling on the day. This is not a problem for airlines whose crews have ID. The voluntary ID card system for UK citizens has been scrapped, so maybe truckers will need something similar.

I am not suggesting the problems are insurmountable but they are more complex than for an airline type system.

Geoff


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## siggie

You don't have to know who is on the vehicle in advance just as you don't have to complete the Advance Passenger Information (API) details in advance. The advantage of doing so is that it will speed up the progress through departures. Not filling in the API will just mean it will take you (and those behind you!) longer to get through the UKBA control point.


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## nicholsong

siggie said:


> You don't have to know who is on the vehicle in advance just as you don't have to complete the Advance Passenger Information (API) details in advance. The advantage of doing so is that it will speed up the progress through departures. Not filling in the API will just mean it will take you (and those behind you!) longer to get through the UKBA control point.


Point taken but there will still have to be a stop and check on occupants of the vehicle even if they filled in the info in advance.

The US insist the API is provided 24hrs(?) in advance of the flight departure, if not provided I think the airline will not check you in.

Geoff


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## rogerblack

Reading the BBC article right to the end, it would seem that this whole cumbersome system of checking every single person who departs from the UK is for the purpose of determining whether (a relatively small number of) people who have been permitted to come in for a limited period have actually left or not.

Which won't in any case help find out where they are if they have overstayed.

Surely there must be a better way of tracking these than inconveniencing everyone else, the vast majority of whom will be permanent UK residents leaving for a break or non-UK residents returning home?

Better controls on the way in is what is needed.


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## erneboy

I suspect that these proposals have as much to do with the eternal wish to find out more about all of us and our movements as they do with tracking immigrants.

Practically speaking, they are politically necessary now because Cameron wants to be able to count the number of foreign passport holders leaving the country towards his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. He's missed his (foolish) target rather badly and wants to show that he's moving in the right direction. Any excuse for any amount of inconvenience will be fine as long as it helps him do that, Alan.


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## emjaiuk

erneboy said:


> I suspect that these proposals have as much to do with the eternal wish to find out more about all of us and our movements as they do with tracking immigrants.
> 
> Practically speaking, they are politically necessary now because Cameron wants to be able to count the number of foreign passport holders leaving the country towards his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. He's missed his (foolish) target rather badly and wants to show that he's moving in the right direction. Any excuse for any amount of inconvenience will be fine as long as it helps him do that, Alan.


I suppose it will be even more interesting to see what happens on freight. It is currently normal practice not to see any form of authority, English or French, when leaving the UK. Also the system operates on a 'turn up and go' system. It is not possible to book a specific freight journey on the tunnel. You turn up and go on the next available train

I'm assuming that this is all because the UK Border agency is fed up with not being able to answer embarrassing questions, and also to find out who is going to Syria etc.

Malcolm


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## barryd

erneboy said:


> I suspect that these proposals have as much to do with the eternal wish to find out more about all of us and our movements as they do with tracking immigrants.
> 
> Practically speaking, they are politically necessary now because Cameron wants to be able to count the number of foreign passport holders leaving the country towards his pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. He's missed his (foolish) target rather badly and wants to show that he's moving in the right direction. Any excuse for any amount of inconvenience will be fine as long as it helps him do that, Alan.


You know what? I had that thought but decided that it was a case of "Surely Not" so didn't mention it. I read somewhere that you lose your right to NHS treatment if you bugger off for over 3 months and your discharged from your GP. Now they will know.


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## erneboy

There are circumstances where that is the case Bazzer but I think the saving that would make is just a bonus and not the primary reason for it, Alan.


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## Glandwr

rogerblack said:


> Reading the BBC article right to the end, it would seem that this whole cumbersome system of checking every single person who departs from the UK is for the purpose of determining whether (a relatively small number of) people who have been permitted to come in for a limited period have actually left or not.
> 
> Which won't in any case help find out where they are if they have overstayed.
> 
> Surely there must be a better way of tracking these than inconveniencing everyone else, the vast majority of whom will be permanent UK residents leaving for a break or non-UK residents returning home?
> 
> Better controls on the way in is what is needed.


Wonder what will happen to those who enter and exit via Ireland? Are there going to be border checks between north and south?

Dick


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## teemyob

Won't stop anyone on mainland Europe entering syria via Turkey.


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## 747

I believe that the main reason for this move is to appease the electorate leading up to a general Election.


It is a meaningless gesture that looks like Cameroon is tightening controls.


The only possible benefit could be having a very small presence at exit points to stop anyone who looks vaguely Middle Eastern and check their documents.


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## nicholsong

Glandwr said:


> Wonder what will happen to those who enter and exit via Ireland? Are there going to be border checks between north and south?
> 
> Dick


Or the Channel Islands - always was a leaky bucket - they did not care as long as one had an onward ticket to UK. Maybe it has changed, maybe not.

Geoff


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## erneboy

erneboy said:


> It's nonsense anyway. Anyone who doesn't want to be counted out or back in will just travel through N Ireland and leave or enter from the ROI, Alan.


Yes.


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## leseduts

Is it a warning of things to come.

We were booked on the tunnel early this morning Calais/Folkestone.

We arrived nearly 2 hours early as we had the dogs to be checked and we usually manage to get on an earlier train. It took us well over an hour to get from the ticket barriers to the French passport check. There were 3 alleys open, once through them everyone had to aim for the one and only UK passport check. The traffic was backed up through the ticket barriers and out along the access road.
After an hour there appeared more staff and 2 more UK passport check points were opened. Most of the time no one had any idea what the hold up was as it was not possible to see what was going on.
We can only hope that the Border Agency recruit some more staff before April!!


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## emjaiuk

Didn't you ask at UK immigration as to the reason for the delay?

Malcolm


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## barryd

leseduts said:


> Is it a warning of things to come.
> 
> We were booked on the tunnel early this morning Calais/Folkestone.
> 
> We arrived nearly 2 hours early as we had the dogs to be checked and we usually manage to get on an earlier train. It took us well over an hour to get from the ticket barriers to the French passport check. There were 3 alleys open, once through them everyone had to aim for the one and only UK passport check. The traffic was backed up through the ticket barriers and out along the access road.
> After an hour there appeared more staff and 2 more UK passport check points were opened. Most of the time no one had any idea what the hold up was as it was not possible to see what was going on.
> We can only hope that the Border Agency recruit some more staff before April!!


Must have been a reason for that. I normally arrive about 40 min before departure at Calais and its always been a breeze. At Dover I once turned up at 4:59pm for a 5pm ferry and assumed I had missed it but still got on.

If they end up having huge delays everyone is going to miss their ferries. It wont happen as Dover and Calais cannot afford to have thousands of vehicles stuck there clogging up the system.


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## erneboy

I wish I had your faith in that Barry.

My feeling is that if the staff are told to check and record passport details for every passenger that's what they'll do. Any problems caused by that won't be their fault, they'll only be doing what they were told to.

I would also expect that many people will turn up very early so as not to miss their sailing, just in case there are delays. That'll put additional strain on whatever system is used.

We could see several boat loads of traffic queued up all the time, Alan.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Must have been a reason for that. I normally arrive about 40 min before departure at Calais and its always been a breeze. At Dover I once turned up at 4:59pm for a 5pm ferry and assumed I had missed it but still got on.
> 
> If they end up having huge delays everyone is going to miss their ferries. It wont happen as Dover and Calais cannot afford to have thousands of vehicles stuck there clogging up the system.


Barry

There is a reason - the Border Agency have only just re-introduced passport checks when leaving the UK. Where have you been - no nepapers in Teesdale?:laugh:

Interesting that one goes through the French entry check before the UK exit one.

Geoff


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## peejay

I didn't think these checks started until 1st Apr ?


Pete


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## barryd

Have you seen the amount of traffic that goes through Dover? Its a well oiled and efficient machine. I stand to be corrected but there is no way that they will or can afford to muck that up. Dover and the approach roads all around it will just end up gridlocked. Its pointless anyway. Who gives a fig who is leaving the UK? Just to see if a few immigrants might have overstayed their welcome. Bonkers.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Have you seen the amount of traffic that goes through Dover? Its a well oiled and efficient machine. I stand to be corrected but there is no way that they will or can afford to muck that up. Dover and the approach roads all around it will just end up gridlocked. Its pointless anyway. Who gives a fig who is leaving the UK? Just to see if a few immigrants might have overstayed their welcome. Bonkers.


The checkes might be a deterrent to some wanting to come to UK as 'students', overstaying, but unable to leave to visit their families - particularly if they are from cultures with strong family ties. This might make them think twice.

As for delays at Dover; we all stop for French passport checks, so I do not see why a UK check should slow things up any more. I doubt whether the Border Agency will stop those with UK passports as they are not on visas - but we shall see.

Geoff


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## suedew

This confuses me, have always had our passports checked before exiting uk by ferrry, same type of check as at the airport.
Maybe I just look suspicious lol

Sue


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## wakk44

barryd said:


> ................................... Who gives a fig who is leaving the UK? Just to see if a few immigrants might have overstayed their welcome. Bonkers.


Perhaps stricter checks at passport control may have prevented the 3 silly teenage girls leaving to join IS in Syria.
Also any other would be jihadist leaving the country to fight with IS may be deterred if they had to explain where they were going and why.


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## nicholsong

suedew said:


> This confuses me, have always had our passports checked before exiting uk by ferrry, same type of check as at the airport.
> Maybe I just look suspicious lol
> 
> Sue


Sue

Was that a check by the Border Agency or just by the ferry check-in to see whether the person travelling was the same as on the booking?

Checks at airports are done by security to ensure the passport matches the boarding card.

Geoff


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> Sue
> 
> Was that a check by the Border Agency or just by the ferry check-in to see whether the person travelling was the same as on the booking?
> 
> Checks at airports are done by security to ensure the passport matches the boarding card.
> 
> Geoff


Yes your passport is checked. Surely there is a way then to just scan it quickly and it will flag up anything that is not right.

Checking it twice is just duplication of effort.


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## erneboy

This report says the passport details everyone leaving the country will be checked http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-31619058

That's what I've heard discussed on news programmes, no one has mentioned any exemption for Brits. I think that if that was intended we would have heard about it since it's significant, Alan.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Yes your passport is checked. Surely there is a way then to just scan it quickly and it will flag up anything that is not right.
> 
> Checking it twice is just duplication of effort.


Barry

You sem to be impling that there should be just one passport check.

By whom?

The airline/ferry staff - who would have to be given access to the Immigration and Police databases? I think not.

The Boder Agency staff? Who would then be issuing vehicle/passenger boarding cards for DFDS and P&O, at taxpayers expense? Again, I think not.

Geoff


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> Barry
> 
> You sem to be impling that there should be just one passport check.
> 
> By whom?
> 
> The airline/ferry staff - who would have to be given access to the Immigration and Police databases? I think not.
> 
> The Boder Agency staff? Who would then be issuing vehicle/passenger boarding cards for DFDS and P&O, at taxpayers expense? Again, I think not.
> 
> Geoff


But surely there is technology in place to scan a passport, have it connected to the border agency or whoever where it automatically flags up any over stayers or people who are wanted etc. Then 200 yards further up the border staff just pull over that vehicle. The person in the booth is none the wiser, all they do is scan the passport. I suppose its not that simple though as different passports from different countries may or may not have bar codes on them.


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## emjaiuk

I recently spent 6/7 years of travelling UK/France on average 4/5 times a month, and as far as I can see and have experienced, it is a question of what resources the Border Force can or are willing to devote to the process. Whenever a queue develops. they seem to be able to bring out extra staff, but not to prevent the queue forming. Their scanning procedures for UK passports are relativity slow, and can cause backlogs, and why can't any vehicles requiring more than a cursory check be sent to the office, rather than hold up everybody else. 

Malcolm


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## nicholsong

erneboy said:


> That's what I've heard discussed on news programmes, no one has mentioned any exemption for Brits. I think that if that was intended we would have heard about it since it's significant, Alan.


I was not suggesting there would be an exemption for UK passport-holders. It is quite common, even when entering a country, fot the Immigration Officer to wave one through on seeing the passport or doing a cursory check on its validity, but not always scanning it. This has happened to me in UK, Greece, Switzerland and Poland just from memory.

I think this may happen with UK exit checks because, unless there is the possibility of catching criminals, a holder of an UK passport can come and go at will.

Geoff


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> But surely there is technology in place to scan a passport, have it connected to the border agency or whoever where it automatically flags up any over stayers or people who are wanted etc. Then 200 yards further up the border staff just pull over that vehicle. The person in the booth is none the wiser, all they do is scan the passport. I suppose its not that simple though as different passports from different countries may or may not have bar codes on them.


Sophisticated scanners at all the thousands of check-in desks across the country(frequently unmanned) and connected to government computers(with unbreachable(?) firewalls).

I thought you were an IT specialist:wink2::laugh:

Geoff


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> Sophisticated scanners at all the thousands of check-in desks across the country(frequently unmanned) and connected to government computers(with unbreachable(?) firewalls).
> 
> I thought you were an IT specialist:wink2::laugh:
> 
> Geoff


Well how else are they going to do it? Unless technology is involved the entire idea is pointless. Looking at someones passport does not tell you anything.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Well how else are they going to do it? Unless technology is involved the entire idea is pointless. Looking at someones passport does not tell you anything.


I understand that it needs that sort of technology, which the Border Agency are using.

But the security risk of computer lnks to government computers fron unattended check-in desks to which the public have access seems just too high.

Geoff


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## erneboy

nicholsong said:


> I was not suggesting there would be an exemption for UK passport-holders. It is quite common, even when entering a country, fot the Immigration Officer to wave one through on seeing the passport or doing a cursory check on its validity, but not always scanning it. This has happened to me in UK, Greece, Switzerland and Poland just from memory.
> 
> I think this may happen with UK exit checks because, unless there is the possibility of catching criminals, a holder of an UK passport can come and go at will.
> 
> Geoff


I understood what you said perfectly well Geoff. The BBC article I linked to (and every other source I have heard and read) said that details would be recorded. That can't be done by a cursory check or by waving anybody through, Alan.


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## Stanner

nicholsong said:


> Sophisticated scanners at all the thousands of check-in desks across the country(frequently unmanned) and connected to government computers(with unbreachable(?) firewalls).
> 
> I thought you were an IT specialist:wink2::laugh:
> 
> Geoff


.............. and all running Windows based software.........


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## suedew

We have had passports checked by more than one team, assume that passport control means just that and have been stopped at those booths, prior to getting to ferry check in not always checked twice, but not unusual for that to happen, must just get the dodgy ferries.

Sue


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## nicholsong

erneboy said:


> I understood what you said perfectly well Geoff. The BBC article I linked to (and every other source I have heard and read) said that details would be recorded. That can't be done by a cursory check or by waving anybody through, Alan.


Well let's wait and see what they do in practice.

Geoff


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## teljoy

A bit of information that I don't think has been mentioned is that when booking eurotunnel with tesco vouchers travellers details for the Advanced Passenger Information is not requested (It wasn't when I booked for a trip for this June 2015) as the information is for the home office and border controls.
There is a form that can be filled in online to make the departure process allegedly quicker.
It is an easily completed form. I have done ours this morning and the website for others is https://www.eurotunnel.com/apis/

Terry


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## emjaiuk

AFAIK, the exit passport checks will be the same as current entry ones, i.e. the passport will be electronically scanned and the INFORMATION VERIFIED. Scanning is almost instantaneous, the verification is the delay. Even if it is only a few seconds it mounts up as you will have noticed waiting in the queue at Calais. The government plans to phase in verification of 100% of passports by mid summer.

The problem arises if sufficient resources aren't allocated, e.g. extra booths, scanning equipment and staff, and in these days of budget restraints I can see that happening


Malcolm


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## nicholsong

For Terry and Malcolm

You have posted in a thread that has been dormant for a month or so.

There is another more recent thread running on same topic here

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/37-continental-touring-info/135105-uk-border-force-checks.html

You may want to post on there.

Geoff


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