# What engine size please?



## Topefisher

Currently researching which 2 berth coachbuilt to go for.

We want an end lounge, low profile unit and one of our selected choices is the Bessacarr E460.

Coachbuilt is the wifes choice because of the extra space when the weather is not so good, I would much prefer a good sized panel van but I think I am on a looser in trying to sell this one.

We intend to tow a motorcycle trailer with Harley on it for around 25% of our trips.
Gross weight of the trailer, bike and associated gear will be in the region of around 550kgs maximum.

As with many similar model motorhomes to this choice the deals to be had always seem to be on stock units with the 2.2L 100hp engine. There are no to very few 2.3 models stocked.
If you want the 2.3L 130hp then its to order and the deals are never as negotiable.

I have done a quite an amount of towing i.e. 30-35 yrs + with a caravan, 12 yrs + using and slipping boats etc.

I have never driven or towed yet with a motorhome so have zero experience of their capabilities. I do know there always seems to be a lot of overhang from the rear wheels on coachbuilts back to the towball which is never a good thing..

So the question arises for us out of the two - which engine size??
The 2.2 can be had at v. good deals
The 2.3 will be more expensive with longer lead time.

I would dearly like to get away with a 2.2 or in reality is the 2.3 a must have??


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## RichardnGill

Carnt help with the towing, but we had a Transit 2.2 at 130 BHP and it went well enough. The 2.2 100BHP could easily be remapped to give plenty of pulling power I would have though? Cheaper than getting a 2.3 if you can get a good deal.

Richard...


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## duxdeluxe

Here is my ten pennies worth.

Current van is on a 2.0 JTD which has been remapped to 110 bhp. I tow a boat without any issues at all, though clearly this size engine will not be big enough for serious towing.

I ordered my new van with the 3.0 multijet so that I would be easily able to tow a car if required (it is part of the master plan).

Depending on any plans to tow anything bigger, I would say go for the 2.2 100hp engine to start with as your total tow weight is probably only 100-150 kilos more than mine. You can easily remap the engine afterwards if required - these engines are designed for White van man abuse and are lightly stressed so a remap isn't an issue in my opinion (gets tin hat and waits for incoming from the anti remap brigade). 

The 2.3 does have a six speed box which is a bit nicer. Have an eye for resale value as well - those 2.2's are sitting there for a reason, whether it is logical or not. Dealers might not offer as good a trade a couple of years down the line. Just a thought and hope it all helps. In any case, enjoy it and enjoy the Harley......


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## GRUMPYOB

I've got the Fiat 3.0 in my Kontiki and it feels like it would tow my house never mind a trailer. Seems a bit thirsty but it should get better with more miles on it. Are you using a dedicated bike trailer or flat bed. I'm hoping to take my Buell and the wife's Suzuki at some point but still getting used to the motorhome 1st after 22 years caravanning.


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## Topefisher

Thanks for the input so far, appreciated.

The re-mapping is an option I hadn't considered and providing it dosn't affect warranty is a serious thought, so I will investigate this option further.

*Is it likely to affect the warranty??*

I guess they have the 100's ( 2.2 ) instock mainly because of costs.
If you had the same vans side by side with different engine options with no visual/comfort differences then it may be a hard sell on additional justification, but who knows?

Bike trailer at the moment will be replaced by hopefuly a very good quality collapsable unit such as the Treale Trailers.


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## Rosbotham

I've pulled a Smart (750kg), Fiat 500C on an a-frame (1000kg) and Fiat 500C on a trailer (1300kg) using the 2.2, and 500C on the a-frame using the 2.3. 

The 2.2 is fine. You lose 6th gear which can make motorway cruising revs a little high, but it doesn't struggle power wise.

I can't compare the two directly because the 2.2 was on a Compass Avantgarde (3300kg loaded) whereas the 2.3 is on an Autotrail (4000kg loaded). However, the two engines are chalk and cheese. The 2.3 is smoother, but the 2.2 felt somehow "peppier".


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## Hezbez

We have a Besscarr E460 with the 2.2 100 HP engine.
We never towed with it so cannot comment on that - but can say that solo we've never found it to be underpowered.

Ours is a 2007 with 18k miles on the clock - runs really well, we get approx 32 mpg sitting at 55 - 60 mph. Best we've had was 35 mpg doing around 50 mph on a long run. Worst has been 27 mpg sitting at 70 mph.

One big benefit of the 2.2 100HP is that I've never heard of one suffering from the dreaded X250 clutch judder.

As you will know this is the 5 speed model - don't really miss having a 6th gear. We fitted cruise control and this has been great - especially on motorways.

Oh, and we just love the rear lounge layout!

Anything more you want to ask about the E460 model just let me know.

Just remembered - a member on here was selling his E460, with the bigger engine. Don't know if he got it sold - might be worth contacting him if you're interested; http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-90646-e460.html


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## Rapide561

*2.2 or 2.3*

Hi

Last year, I drove both a 2.2 and a 2.3 for approx 1000 miles each. The 2.2 had a five speed box and was adequate. The van was lightly loaded however. The 6 speed box was "more comfortable".

I would suggest a test drive and ask the dealer to fill the fresh and waste water tanks so you can get a better feel for a laden vehicle.

Russell


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## Topefisher

Many thanks for further input again.

Test driving is fine in theory if you have both engine sizes side by side on the same model to compare and the test was done whilst towing which is where the input is needed.

Quite sure the 100 is sufficient from the feedback if not towing.

I would like to try and buy within a 150 mile radius. This being my limitted area I want to travel per chance warranty work is required.

There are just few available of the 100hp 2.2 model and I do not know yet of one that has both side by side or yet where there is a 2.3 130hp at all available for test drive within this radius..

It would be unfair or unethical of me to go futher afield to just test drive with no real intention of purchasing so will avoid this option.

We are looking at 2 yrs min warranty so in reality has to be new vehicle.


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## gnscloz

hi there 

have towed the same car with both engines, 
2.2 towed it ok, van was 3400 kg 
2.3 was 4005 kg and coped lot better lot more power altho still had to use gearbox a lot, 6th gear huge advantage when not towing,
have now had van re mapped by wow tuning which has increased power, economy and you dont have to use gear box half as much, 

mark


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## Sideways86

*hi*

we have a Swift Voyager 685FB with a 2.3 and regularly tow either a Fiat Punto or Goldwing no problems at all

The wing is on a trailer and Punto on a Car a Tow, both return around 23 ish to the gallon at 60mph

Hope this helps you

John & Sue


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## GRUMPYOB

A good remap should be able to be taken off in the case of a warranty claim and the unit set to normal. With the original put back on the dealer wouldn't know. The remap can be reinstalled using the code for it when it was initially put on.
My Discovery was done like this by the independent dealer I use, just in case.
Check out the people offering remaps and see what's on offer.
Good luck finding what you want. It took me a while to decide but I got the best I could afford and haven't regretted it once.


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## eurajohn

Having had a few very underpowered campers in the days before TDI and single rail etc my advice for what it is worth is to get the most powerful one available (within sensible limits), you'll never regret having too much power!.


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## CliveMott

Towing or not always go for the biggest engine. It makes driving so much more relaxed.

We towed a twin motorbike trailer behind our Merc based Autotrail Scout. 2.9 litre was adequate.

C.


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## 113016

I also agree that the largest engine possible is the best option.
A bigger engine working easy is better than a small engine working hard and will usually return better MPG and should last longer.
However we have the older 2.8jtd and I have not driven either the 2.2 or the 2.3 and I have read that they are both as powerful as the older 2.8jtd. Not having tested either I would have thought little difference? maybe marginal!
My next van will probably have either a 3 litre or the largest variant for a that a Merc will have as no cam belt to change!


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## Sideways86

*hi*

The newer 2.3 has got the same if not slightly more torque than the older 2.8

torque makes easier driving
J


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## metblue

*2.2*

I have a merc 313 cdi 2,2 129bhp standard,it has been remapped to 160bhp by Elite Remapping.
We tow a 2004 Fiat panda on a Brian James trailer with no problems,I am getting 29mph solo and 27.5 while towing ( done and checked between refueling) not on a computer.
Off to Spain soon with Panda on the back (has my wifes wheelchair in the boot)


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