# Road tax reminder just arrived. Grrr!!!



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Apparently, it's now £101.75 for 6 months or £185.00 for 12 months.

I'm sure I read somewhere (might have been in Which magazine) that it was less than that.

Our is 2001 Fiat 2.8 Laika 3,850 kg PLg, says motor caravan on V5, no mention of weight.


Anyone able to advise me/us.

Wish they'd put it on fuel.


Kev


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

I thought 3,850kg was classified as PHG which is slightly cheaper?

JohnW


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Oh Kev are you not back to work yet honey? Ours is 3850kg and £165 are you sure its right?


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Kev

Ours is 4000KG PHG and £165.00

Best Regards
Broom


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Kev,get your v5 changed.My vehicle is a 5 tonner,and I only pay £165.

tony


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

Kev - I had exactly this situation a few years ago.

IF your M/H is definitely 3850 max, then it is technically not taxed for legal use on the roads and never has been (not your mistake, nor was it mine when it happened to me)

As stated by others, it needs to be PHG, not PLG

If you are stopped by an alert PC, your M/H can be confiscated!

God news is, it's a half-hour job to fix, at a local DVLA office. They'll give you a new tax disc, take your V5 (log book) for correcting, and charge you £20 less renewal.

Give them a call.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> Oh Kev are you not back to work yet honey? Ours is 3850kg and £165 are you sure its right?


When did you get it as it has gone up £20.00 for this year we have paid £185.00 
We are classified as PLG that is the M1 and we are only 3.5 so why would 3.8 be cheaper???
Also check that really is your weight as the DVLA have been known to make mistakes 8O

Mavis


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It's just arrived today, i checked it because of what I read, but I was expecting it to be about £120 ish according to the thing I read, wish I could find it, sure it was which mag.

Going to look to see if it's in Mh.

I'll report back if I find it.

Kev.

PS, I'm not at work because I've been made redundant, am on gardening leave for another two weeks, then on the nat king cole, still got a bad chest but not at deaths door any more


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## Sundial (May 11, 2005)

*tax renewal*

We have also just taxed ours - over 3500kg and paid £165.00 - PHG.

Sundial


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I have a weight plate from the converter (Laika) it's 3800 or 3850kg. it's out of site, so can't see it at the mo,


I also just search the DVLA site no mention of PHG.

So what does PHG stand for then, I tried to work it out but my brain aches now  

Kev.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Hi Kev,

PHG = Private Heavy Goods
PLG = Private Light Goods

JohnW


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

PHG = Private Heavy Goods.
Also P-HGV 

Anything over 3500Kg max laden is in a separate taxation class.

It also affects driving licence groups, tolls, and speed limits


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## orian (Feb 22, 2007)

So just for the record, I have a small motorhome with a max gross weight of 3300kgs which is classed as PLG and I am charged £185. If I had bought a much larger vehicle weighing around 3800kgs I would pay £20 less. Please tell me thai I have got it wrong or I will think the lunatics have really taken over the asylum.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

dbh1961 said:


> PHG = Private Heavy Goods.
> Also P-HGV
> 
> Anything over 3500Kg max laden is in a separate taxation class.
> ...


I was aware of the driving licence groups, no problem there, and also the speed restrictions, IE 10mph less on dual carriageways and single roads, as for the tolls, if they can find the plate, I'll pay the extra, otherwise it's 3500kg 

Kev.

PS can't find the article re road tax, it might have been MMM, or practical our lass buys them all, I just find them a big expensive yawn, she likes to find places I won't go to


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

BobBrown - yep the lunatics have taken over the asylum! Your are correct in your assumptions.
:roll: 
Greenie :lol:


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Kev,
Are you sure you are not getting confused with the new VED rates for commercial vehicles. They are now taxed according to emmissions, but motorhomes are not commercial vehicles.
Currently as has been stated motorhomes fall into the PLG and PHG groups.
Gerry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GerryD said:


> Kev,
> Are you sure you are not getting confused with the new VED rates for commercial vehicles. They are now taxed according to emmissions, but motorhomes are not commercial vehicles.
> Currently as has been stated motorhomes fall into the PLG and PHG groups.
> Gerry


I don't think so GerryD, but it has happened once or twice where I have made an error.

For clarity

On the V5 it has it down as PLg, 2800cc, heavy oil, 2 axle rigid body, Taxation class = PLG, no weight is shown, so I assume not declared when imported.

on the V11 it has fiat, 2800cc, PLG .

It also passed a class IV MOT on Saturday.

Tha is all the info I have to hand at the moment.

Also still no sign of this article re tax

Kev


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> BobBrown - yep the lunatics have taken over the asylum! Your are correct in your assumptions.
> :roll:
> Greenie :lol:


Hang on if this is true then it pays for us to go and get it reweghed and classed as PHG 3.8 and save £20.00 per year and I can pack more clothes in the Motorhome when I go away :lol: 
God Ray is going to love that :roll: 
Am I seeing this right???
Mavis


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

locovan said:


> greenasthegrass said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK I've just rung DVLA in Swan Zee isn't it, look you .

And the dipstick didn't know, so I ever so politely asked the numpty to go find someone who did know.

It appears that it is cheaper to have a heavier MH, I now have to go to DVLA in Leeds, and tell them to sort it out, no mention was made of having to pay for the priveledge.

Kev.

PS Mavis, I wouldn't get larger bags just yet, I think re-plating is a little more involved, usually to do with larger wheels and/or tyres, and stiffer springs, I don't think you can do it just for the hell of it. :?


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## Sundial (May 11, 2005)

*tax renewal*

8) Don't shout too loudly, Mr Broon may get to hear of it and ruin it for us all!!

Sundial


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Kev_Behr said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > greenasthegrass said:
> ...


Hi no I was joking but Im really amazed that you have found all this out it makes you wonder how much more dont we know.
MHF is so great (its good that we talk)
Keep in touch how you get on Kev
Mavis


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

The consolation Kev is DVLA in Leeds is very quiet at the moment. Specially if you go at 3ish. But shhhh or they will all want to go!

Greenie :lol:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Sorry everyone this post was completely wrong


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sallytrafic said:


> I am intrigued that you have had a class IV MOT how did they test the tachograph?
> 
> Motorhomes (motor caravans) of all weights just need the same one as a car AFAIK. VOSA even have a poster about it.
> 
> You may of course have to go to a garage that does class IV just because of the capacity of their lifting ramp. That doesn't mean it has to be a class IV.


I know you know your stuff, so I willn't (old word brought back to life courtesy of moi) argue with you frank, however this is a subject fraught with myth, perpetuated by DVLA themselves, I have had many run ins with them over the years even got took to court once, The beak (bless him) told them to "foxtrot oscar" and read there own "guide", saying if you have a guide then it is only fair that people are going to either follow it to the letter or interpret it how they see.

In this case it was whether I needed an operators licence to tow a trailer, I said I didn't, the guide said I didn't, DVLA then said oh yes you do I said bo11ocks, they took me to court, the judge said I didn't, however I did need a Tachograph, but only when towing, so I said OK I'll get a flat bed fill that and the trailer to the limit, drive as far as I can within my hours, tip ,and put the trailer on the back of the flat bed, bish bash bosh, I no longer have any limit to my hours, for the return journey.

You can imaging the fun we had over that one, got pulled a couple of times, the boys in blue thought they might have better things to do.

As for your point on how they tested the Tacho, easy they didn't, as I'm not obliged to have one, but it says class IV on the test cistificit.

So you're probably right as usual, I often follow your posts as gospel


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Would you believe it. Was reading this thread (page 2) and letter box went. Got the mail and renewal reminder is in it.

Make: Fiat
Engine Capacity/CO2: 2800CC
Tax Class: Private HTV

6 Months: £90.75
12 Months: £165.00

Van is 4500KG Eura and My MOT says 
Test Class: IV

Karl


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Kev,

We had the same problem a couple of years ago, but only because I knew we weren't legal, nor had the previous two owners been legal.
The V5 stated...
*Fiat 2800cc, Motorcaravan, 2 axle Rigid Body, PLG*, when it clearly was a *3 axle Rigid Body at 4,500Kg, and a PHG.*

I highlighted it to Swansea. They contacted the local office, who came out to investigate. I got a new V5, a new (lower priced) VED disc, and a refund of previous overcharges. No charge was made for the visit, nor the administration.

HTH,

Jock.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Damn, Just noticed mine says two axles also. Better get that fixed 

Karl


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## spudleyham (Sep 5, 2006)

Hi Kev, 
yes ours is 3850Kg and is PHG (private heavy goods) and £165.00 on the tax well worth checking it out with DVLA! good luck... 
Shaun


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Kev_Behr said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> > I am intrigued that you have had a class IV MOT how did they test the tachograph?
> ...


Sorry this post wrong as well


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi frank class 4 MOT is a car MOT, class 7 is HGV

All motorhomes/RV's irrespective of weight are class 4

Olley


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Kev_Behr said:


> dbh1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I was aware of the driving licence groups, no problem there, and also the speed restrictions, IE 10mph less on dual carriageways and single roads,
> ...


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

olley said:


> Hi frank class 4 MOT is a car MOT, class 7 is HGV
> 
> All motorhomes/RV's irrespective of weight are class 4
> 
> Olley


Thanks OLLEY I've edited out all the rubbish I posted earlier


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Up to 3050kg unladen they can, over they can't, see here: http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/roadsafe/speed/index.htm

Olley


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks Olley

Have just googled it and yes Someones been going over the speed limit since they got there new van   

Ill go extra slow for 3 months to make it right :wink: 

Alan H


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi in answer to an earlier question, its cost's more to tax a romahome than a top of the range 20ton Monaco RV. I would think Franks little motorhome costs more than my 9tonner. £165 last time.

Great enit :lol: 

Olley


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## frenchfancy (May 21, 2005)

I was going to ask what is PHG. We have a Swift Sundance 2286 cc our renewal says £185, do you all think it should be £165, how can i tell?


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

dbh1961 said:


> If you are stopped by an alert PC, your M/H can be confiscated!


Can I just correct this piece of misinformation. There is no such power under any legislation. If your vehicle is uninsured, Section 165 RTA 1988 gives the power to seize, but under the circumstances you describe, you are (fortunately) incorrect.

Dougie.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

frenchfancy said:


> I was going to ask what is PHG. We have a Swift Sundance 2286 cc our renewal says £185, do you all think it should be £165, how can i tell?


See >> this link <<. *PHG* is an abbreviation for Private Heavy Goods (or more commonly Private HGV) for non-commercial vehicles not exceeding 3,500kg revenue weight.

Your V5 should show your van's weight.

Dougie.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

"non-commercial vehicles not exceeding 3,500kg revenue weight. 

Your V5 should show your van's weight. "

Not sure what the revenue weight is, not come across that before in this minefield,

My V5 does not show a the weight, if it did this post would have been unneeded, as it revolves around the weight, but it's been so interesting, and probably saved a few members a few quid, cheques made payable to and crossed to K behr, ta very much, nah sod it, have a drink on moi.

Kev.


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

asprn, I'm sure you are right to the letter, but I don't think I'd be as able as you to argue the case in practice, at the roadside.

My understanding, based on press articles written by our local Police Sergeant, is that they only have to believe you MIGHT not have insurance.

He has said he would always have the vehicle seized, if there was ANY doubt in his mind. He's included being "unsure" about tax, licence, identity of driver, and all sorts of other reasons to give him doubt.

I strongly suspect he'd take "iffy" road tax classification as suggesting "iffy" insurance, and have it towed 'just in case'.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

asprn said:


> PHG is an abbreviation for Private Heavy Goods (or more commonly Private HGV) for non-commercial vehicles not exceeding 3,500kg revenue weight.
> 
> Your V5 should show your van's weight.
> 
> Dougie.


Dougie that should be "for vehicles exceeding 3500kg"

Olley


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

Kev_Behr said:


> ........this is a subject fraught with myth, perpetuated by DVLA themselves, I have had many run ins with them over the years even got took to court once, The beak (bless him) told them to "foxtrot oscar" and read there own "guide", saying if you have a guide then it is only fair that people are going to either follow it to the letter or interpret it how they see.
> 
> In this case it was whether I needed an operators licence to tow a trailer, I said I didn't, the guide said I didn't, DVLA then said oh yes you do I said bo11ocks, they took me to court, the judge said I didn't, however I did need a Tachograph, but only when towing, so I said OK I'll get a flat bed fill that and the trailer to the limit, drive as far as I can within my hours, tip ,and put the trailer on the back of the flat bed, bish bash bosh, I no longer have any limit to my hours, for the return journey.
> 
> ...


Kev

Just can't resist replying to your post. And also clearing up some other bits.

Just as a starter, DVLA have nothing to do with operator licences, never have and probably never will - VOSA deal with 'O' licences. :roll: However, you're quite right in that you do not need an 'O' licence in the case you mention (if the vehicle is 3,500 kg or less, and the trailer being towed has an unladen weight of less than 1020 kilograms), and again you're right, if you're towing the trailer in connection with a business that you need a tachograph.

Clever stuff - put the trailer on the back of the truck to fetch it home - NOT - you'd still get nicked - even if you 'think' you're not covered by tachographs for that part of the journey, you were for the first part and are legally required to continue recording your work / journey for the rest of that day and to produce your records when requested to do so. Don't produce them - you can have at least 24 hours parked at the nearest truckstop - and - as of the end of May this year, pay a fixed penalty of up to £200 for the pleasure of doing so - make off without paying - £5000 - great isn't it.

Produce them after driving as far as you can within those hours, then driving without them (trailer on the back) you're still nicked - exceeding your hours - a possible further £200 fixed penalty and an enforced stay at a truckstop!!

Advice - don't mention things like this on an open forum - you never know who's reading it :twisted: And, the guys who stopped you obviously weren't sure of the law - most of my colleagues are absolutely sure of the law. Of course you'll always find a newbie who isn't too sure, but they can always ring another more experienced officer who does know the answer. 8)

For those confused by the different weights and tax classes - have a look at http://tinyurl.com/2qjhpn - give you the cost of your VEL for all classes of "light" vehicle and http://tinyurl.com/24n775 for slightly heavier (i.e. Private HGV). 

It is an anomaly that the heavier 3,850 kg vehicle actually costs less to tax than the 3,500 kg, provided it's used for non-commercial purposes.

The 3,500 kg limit for Private Light goods, is to bring the UK in line with the EU legislation and harmonise the categories throughout. Hence, anyone passing a driving test after 01 January 1997 only has the legal right to drive a vehicle of up to 3,500 kg without taking a further driving test. 

MOT's - check out http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022514 - you'll find motor caravans are Class 4 - no mention of weight. The only governing factor is that the MOT station must be able to fit your vehicle into the premises and be able to carry out a full inspection including access to the underneath of the vehicle (whether it be over a pit or on a suitable vehicle lift).

As far as checking insurance and other required documentation - all Police officers have access to information relating to insurance, Excise Duty and Driver Licensing - take a look at - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_071948.

So you see, big brother is alive and well - and watching your every move. :twisted:

Be careful out there, oh, and enjoy your journey wherever you're heading. :lol:

Keith (Sprokit)


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Your V5 should show your van's weight.*

Doug, my old V5 didn't show the weight even though the VIN plate was clearly stamped with 4,500Kgs. The New V5 does show the weight.

Jock.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sprokit said:


> Kev
> 
> Just can't resist replying to your post. And also clearing up some other bits.
> 
> ...


Not being one to argue  

All this took place not too long after tacho's and operators licences came into effect (officer), along with granddad rights, and yes you are correct in that it is now VOSA who do all this type of legislation, and I can't remember who it was back then, I'd forgotten all about it til yesterday.

It's all a dim memory now.  

Of course if you tried to pull a stroke like that now, they'd string you up by your ears, until of course some do gooder came up and said OI your infringing his human rights, and I'd get a tiny slap on the wrist. (there's economy in action, two subjects in one post) 

This is why I like this site, good constructive discussion on a myriad of subjects, and if you make the slightest error, WHAM!! some one will point out the mistake.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Well, what a day I've had, got up about 7am, had a leisurely breakfast, looked on here for a bit, did my ablutions, and went to DVLA Leeds.

Queued for ages, eventually saw someone, who had to get someone else, who also had to get somebody else, finally I had a meeting with someone who thought he knew what to do, 
ah yes, you need to get it weighed,
no I don't, that wont tell you the gross weight, only what it weighs now, 
oh yes, hmm, well you can tax it as it is, 
no i can't, as then it would be taxed at the wrong rate and as I and you both know it, we would be committing some sort of offence.
Well I need to see some sort of proof that what you say is true.
OK follow me home then you can see the plate and take a photo of it.
We're not allowed to do that.
What if I bring it here for you to photograph it.
That would be Ok.
Right, I'll do that, when I get outside, I'll ring Swansea, they can then ring you, and you can come out and see it for yourself.
That sounds complicated,
Well tell swansea to allow us to have the local office numbers than
I wish, I'll give you my works mobile number,
sounds good to me.

So off I toddle home to get the MH, and take it down to Leeds

Ring Ring, Ring Ring, I'm here with the camper, for you to photograph.
What Camper, 
The one with the wrong weight
Oh that one, park in the pay and display, and come up
A it's too big for the entrance to the car park, and B it wouldn't fit in a parking bay so I'd get a fine, and if I come up, how are you going to photograph it.
OK I'll come down, 
Theres the plate
Click, Click.
OK thanks Bye.

So I take it back home, jump in the car, and go back down.
Queued for ages, eventually saw someone, who had to get someone else, who also had to get somebody else, finally I had a meeting with someone who thought he knew what to do, (sound familiar)
anyway I got a tax disc for 12 months for £165.00 not £185.00, and a load of hassle, just because the to$$ers at Swan Zee won't let the local offices give out there numbers, and they don't have the facility of customer parking, they actually wanted me to make an appointment for a HGV test and weighing.

So when I had the disc, and they had my money i enquired ever so sweetly, OK who do I need to talk to get the refund of all the overpaid road tax. so he disappeared, only to come back and tell me, oh you need to apply to Swan Zee for refunds, they even have a form for it.

UNchuffingbelieveable

Kev.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Kev,

My experience was similar. The main reason they came to me, is because their small car park wasn't big enough, and I refused to pay for two on road parking bays. 
My offer of tea and biccies, must have swung the home visit. :lol: 
The chap couldn't have been more helpful, and was happy to give me his works mobile number.
Now I just have to be extra careful, of not having my holiday snaps taken on single and dual carriageways, ie, lower speed limits. :wink: 

Glad that you are all sorted now.

Jock.


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## Tobysmumndad (Nov 12, 2007)

We're planning to be in France in the Hobby with the Smart car, when their tax discs expire, so it was time to have a bash at the 'Obtaining Tax Discs Within Two Months of Expiry' procedure. The Smart was no problem. Download and fill in Form V10. 

Now for the 'Private HGV' Hobby! Hmm ... downloaded Form V85 was needed for that. I ticked 'Private HGV' and next came the thorny question of 'Tick if your vehicle is exempt from goods vehicle testing (See section E over the page)'. Nope, doesn't mention 3,500 kg plus motorhomes anywhere, and I seem to remember letters in MMM about some abstruse distinction between 'Motorised Caravans' which do and 'Motor Caravans' which don't. Well, the Hobby's V5C says 'Motor Caravan' so - 'hey-ho' - I ticked that, entered '4,500 kg' number of axles '3' and tax band 'A'.

The Smart could've been taxed at one of the post offices which issues discs early, but the 'Private HGV' had to be taxed at the Local DVLA, which for us is Reading. Oh dear - that brought back memories of queuing for ages in their depressing offices in Minster Street in the middle of Reading. Hello - they've moved out to a business park at Theale, with easy access from Junction 12 of the M4. (It does pay to check things out before you jump in the car!)

Parking is right outside. It took less than fifteen minutes before we emerged £200 poorer (£165 for the Hobby and £35 for the Smart) with the tax discs which come into force on 1st May. It's a delight to know that something works, for a bleeding change.

I took: V5C for both vehicles, newly valid MOT Test class IV certificates, insurance certificates valid on the day of tax discs coming into force, and brief letters of explanation as to why I was applying early. The nice young lady stapled one each to the V10 and the V85.

Somebody will no doubt tell us what a 'Motorised Caravan' is. I have visions of the late Fred Dibnah chugging along, holding up the traffic.


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