# UK aires- why not at club sites ?



## Grizzly

Looking at recent threads about wild camping and overnighting in UK and on the problems booking single nights at campsites in busy periods I got to thinking...

Perhaps we should start lobbying the clubs to make provision for overnighting motorhomes in the way that many European sites do in schemes like Acceuil Camping Car ?

If those who had the space were to provide an area of hardstanding -effectively a car park -and, for a sensible percentage of the full site fee allow overnighting- for one night only- here, they would provide a service for those of us who don't want to holiday at a site but are only passing through and want a safe stop. 

They'd bring in enough income to cover the costs of providing the service and save themselves time and effort and the inevitable problems that come with fitting in one night stands at busy periods.

They need not have hook ups but should allow use of the MH service point and, if wanted, sanitary blocks. From observation many motorhomers ( and caravanners too) don't use the sanitary blocks anyway so a few vans in the overnight area would not be a problem there.

Motorhomes are not new but their specific needs are different from those of caravans and not something that the main clubs have addressed I think.

Any thoughts ?

G


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## Spacerunner

The C&CC already do a £5 service stop for motorhomes. Maybe a small extension of this would be possible. At least they recognise that there is a need out there.


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## Grizzly

Spacerunner said:


> The C&CC already do a £5 service stop for motorhomes. Maybe a small extension of this would be possible. At least they recognise that there is a need out there.


But that is only a day stop- time to service the van, have a shower and do the washing. I'd like to see them think about providing an area for the van to simply park and sleep overnight.

G


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## geraldandannie

Nice idea, G. Even if they had to provide a new hardstanding area, how much would it costs per space? Would they recoup any costs within a year - 18 months (assuming full occupancy)?

Maybe there's an issue for the facilities - are total numbers of pitches restricted by number of showers / toilets?

I'm sure the idea has some merit. Even if they reclaimed some of the landscaped grounds to provide a motorhome-specific overnighting area, they'd same time and money on incessantly mowing the grass :wink:

Gerald


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## locovan

Brilliant idea G
Then they may find it bought more business because some people will love the area after they have looked around and so transfer from the Aire onto the Camp site for extra nights camping and stay on.


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## Grizzly

geraldandannie said:


> Would they recoup any costs within a year - 18 months (assuming full occupancy)?


How much would we be willing to pay ? How much is reasonable ?

If you parked there you'd not be occupying a big hardstanding and grassy area which could be let to a caravanner for 2 weeks. I think they would get a good level of takers over the year. I'd expect it not to be a bookable scheme - like an aire- so we could feel free to set off and not worry about booking pitches in advance or about not finding anywhere to stay overnight.



> Maybe there's an issue for the facilities - are total numbers of pitches restricted by number of showers / toilets?


Most club sites were built at the time when van showers, toilets and heating systems were not the most luxurious and most people used the site facilities. Nowadays far fewer do and it is a very rare thing to have to wait for a shower, however busy the site and however few showers there seem to be. Perhaps the clubs could recognise this and realise that a half dozen vans max are not going to make any difference.

I've been thinking of the club sites I know and there are very few without space to make this possible. Some- Blackmore C&CC for example- have an area that would need nothing doing to it and could start up tomorrow.

It could be made members only which would address the issue of "undesirables "!

G


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## pippin

What about regulations?

Presumably they would still need to enforce the minimum 60metres separation rule between vans which would make it unworkable.


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## Grizzly

pippin said:


> Presumably they would still need to enforce the minimum 60metres separation rule between vans which would make it unworkable.


Surely this is 6 metres ?

I don't know who makes this regulation which does not seem to be universal on all caravan sites and is, I suspect, a Club regulation.

I'm not suggesting they pack them in as on continental aires but there are few sites who could not find a space safe enough for 5 or 6 vans. Many already have a late arrivals area on which vans are definitely not spaced at 6 m intervals and presumably are using gas so there must be some flexibility.

G


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## hil26

Grizzly said:


> Looking at recent threads about wild camping and overnighting in UK and on the problems booking single nights at campsites in busy periods I got to thinking...
> 
> G


I picked up Sept issue of Practical Motorhome and they are introducing a nightstop scheme in conjunction with the Motor caravanners club - no membership required. But you will need access to the magazine monthly - as it will be publishing lists on a monthly basis - includes pub car parks/sportsgrounds.

There may be a small charge, or could be free depends upon the landowner as they will have to provide fresh water supplies and chem toilet disposal point and no more than 5 MH at location for the night.


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## Grizzly

hil26 said:


> I picked up Sept issue of Practical Motorhome and they are introducing a nightstop scheme in conjunction with the Motor caravanners club -


This would be a fine scheme IF it ever got off the ground.

So many variations on this theme have been suggested, started up and have never been heard of since.

I can't imagine why a landowner would want to provide a CDP and running water tap for people staying free. Why not apply to become a CL/CS and then charge for it as so many have done ?

The thing with the clubs is that they have the organisation up and running already and it would take very little effort to organise an overnighters area.

Many could open tomorrow !

G


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## Steamdrivenandy

Excellent idea Grizzles, if they can't be started at some sites straightaway they could be incorporated in the design of existing sites as they come around for upgrading and built into new sites at the design stage.

Maybe they'd have to specify the maximum number of nights you can spend on the aires so they didn't get clogged. Any more than one or two nights has to go onto a normal pitch.

I think they could be very popular, a good earner for the clubs and possibly something that kick starts others into developing aires type facilities in the UK. 

On the down side there may be an issue with local CL/CS owners who could see potential bookings being snaffled. What do you think?

SDA


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## Grizzly

Steamdrivenandy said:


> On the down side there may be an issue with local CL/CS owners who could see potential bookings being snaffled. What do you think?


Possibly though I suspect they might not be in competition. CS/CLs are popular with caravanners and, in high season anyway, are no happier to take one night stands than anyone else.

I'd be even fiercer with the rule that places are for one night only and, if available, you go onto a standard pitch after that if you want to stay. I'd even be happy with the idea that you have use of the pitch from- say 4pm to 10 am. I'd not picture a club site wanting to devote more than - say- 6 max places to this so you would want there to be one available and not for them to be seen as a cheap way to have a holiday.

G


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## Steamdrivenandy

Grizzly said:


> Possibly though I suspect they might not be in competition. CS/CLs are popular with caravanners and, in high season anyway, are no happier to take one night stands than anyone else.
> 
> I'd be even fiercer with the rule that places are for one night only and, if available, you go onto a standard pitch after that if you want to stay. I'd even be happy with the idea that you have use of the pitch from- say 4pm to 10 am. I'd not picture a club site wanting to devote more than - say- 6 max places to this so you would want there to be one available and not for them to be seen as a cheap way to have a holiday.G


Good point G. For our first night we were the only van on the CL we stayed at last week. The second day a tugger turned up and nicked my EHU and then we had four of us on site for a couple of days and five on the Sunday night before we came home. All tuggers not a chugger in sight.

The one night rule would be good, although I'm not sure whether you'd get penny pinchers turning up for a first night on the 'aire' and the rest 'inside'. I s'pose if you made them unbookable that would stop people who want to stay a while as they'd want the certainty of a reserved pitch.

Still definitely sounds like a good idea and something that needs putting in front of the CC Board.

SDA


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## peedee

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Still definitely sounds like a good idea and something that needs putting in front of the CC Board.
> 
> SDA


Its already been done back in January 2004! They claimed they looked into the provision of aire type facilities but, at that time, dismissed the possibility as not being currently feasible. I would like to think they considered it seriously but I doubt it although they did say, like most things they would keep it in mind if circumstances changed. If my memory serves me correctly they also said motorhome owners could overnight in the late arrivals area where these are available but those that have done this have been charged full site fees!

peedee


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## sallytrafic

Not withstanding PeeDee's last I think its an excellent idea Grizzly and the sort of thing we could pressurize for as a group. 


Just one thing lets make sure that any approach is carefully considered, targeted and drafted - not like some of the petitions that we have been invited to sign.


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## RichardnGill

Simply brilliant.

We have used some CC late arrivals for a quick night stop (the one at Camebridge for example). They do not charge you the pitch price if you stay in the LNA which makes it a reasonabl night.

I have though many times that we would be just as happy in the LNA park for one or two nights than we would be on a pitch. 


Richard...


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## Steamdrivenandy

RichardnGill said:


> Simply brilliant.
> 
> We have used some CC late arrivals for a quick night stop (the one at Camebridge for example). They do not charge you the pitch price if you stay in the LNA which makes it a reasonabl night.
> 
> I have though many times that we would be just as happy in the LNA park for one or two nights than we would be on a pitch.
> 
> Richard...


Rich,

When we stayed @ CC Cambridge over Easter this year there was hardly any space in the LNA one night. Some guy with a tag axle jobby (sorry) was parked up broadside on with a trailer attached and an Audi (A4 I think) on board. That's really taking the p***.

SDA


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## DTPCHEMICALS

It is a great idea but, how many one nighters who would have paid full pitch fee start to use this service.

Loss of revenue may be the answer to it not being implemented.


Dave p


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## Grizzly

Thank you all for your support and constructive comments on the idea.

I would like to run it by the CC and C&CC as things have changed in the past 5 years and they might be more receptive now.

I will be composing a letter shortly so all suggestions welcome !

G


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi G,

put all of our names at the bottom  

Or post your letter here and we can all copy and send it on.

Lots of letters may have a larger impact than a single one.

Dave P


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## Grizzly

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Hi G,
> put all of our names at the bottom
> Or post your letter here and we can all copy and send it on.
> Lots of letters may have a larger impact than a single one.
> Dave P


Point taken Dave. I'll put the letter up on here first so comments can be made.

G


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi G 
I do have braiwaves in between bouts of senior moments.
I thought this post would have had many more replies.
It does seem a little quiet lately.

Many on hols i suppose


Dave P


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## SteveandSue

Brilliant idea- so simple - why hasn't it be done before?
Some comments would be- Would it be overnight motorhome parking?
So - less space required - you are not camping getting all your stuff out etc etc - and time limited is a good idea -
Steve


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## peedee

Griz,
I got into a dialogue with the club on this very subject over the imposition of electricity charges. I had previously written to the countries biggest land owner, The National Trust suggesting they introduce overnight facilities to create touring routes around their properties. Reading between the lines of their response, they did not want to tread on the toes of the clubs who manage many sites on or near their properties.

I suggested the following to the CC

"I remain unhappy at the clubs site provision for members owning motorcaravans and in September 2003 I wrote the attached letter to the National Trust. The Trust did reply pointing out that many of its sites are managed by the Caravan Club or the Caravan and Camping Club, therefore, I am now writing to you asking that consideration be given to the creation of continental style 'Aires'. There are many ways the Club could approach this. In co-operation with the National Trust is but one, others might be co-operating with suitable landowners like race course owners where the Club also manages sites. The Club might also like to consider setting aside an overnight 'Aire' area on current sites where land is still available rather than going to the expense of cabling these with electricity or consider investing in motorhome 'Aire' facilities at suitable CL sites in partnership with the owners? Not only would this be demonstrating a committment to motorcaravan owners but it may also be a way of cheaply improving member/pitch ratios."

Since that time the club has established a number of new sites, 9 alone this year, none have "aire" type facilities.

By all means tackle them again but there does not seem to be much will in the club to do anything but provide full pitching facilities.

peedee


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## Guest

If you are members of the C&CC, you have a third option in the summer. Drop in for a night at one of the holiday sites. You don't have to book, it only costs about £6 - £7 a night. Simply turn up unannounced.

Tco


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## Grizzly

Peedee....did the club give any idea of what their objections were or did it just not happen ? 

I'd love it if the NT were to set aside a little land- imagine some of the places ? - but can see the arguments against it that they might reasonably use - waste disposal, attraction of " undesirables", supervision, insurance etc.

The 2 main clubs are already set up for camping so they need make no changes or do anything new.

I can see the argument for staying at holiday sites and, if we were organised, we probably ought to do that but they always seem to be a little way off the beaten track and you have to have your current leaflet handy to know where they are. They also seem to be always on grass pitches and I am a bit wary of that in weather like this.

G


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## jonegood

Nice idea but it doesnt deal with my main gripe about campsites in UK which is that they are not where I want to be. 

The aires/stellplatzes tend to be close to the town/port/chateau/beach, therefore not needing to tow a flippin smart car. add in the flexibility and cost advantages and this is why we take all our main holidays in Europe.

I think UK is missing out on a massive opportunity to attract more european tourist to UK by not having an aires network. This could be done soooo cheaply by changing the regs on selected carparks and providing a limited number of bornes.


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## peedee

Grizzly said:


> Peedee....did the club give any idea of what their objections were or did it just not happen ?
> 
> G


They claimed they had approached motorway service owners but the owners themselves did not want such facilities on their land. Apart from that their main argument was it was not currently feasible but did not elaborate any further and I did not pursue it anymore either.

Subsequently there was an item in their mag where a club official had attended some FIC conference in Italy and publicly voiced his or the clubs objections to aires. (there was a thread on here about this) I believe it is against their whole ethos to provide such facilities and while there is no real competition to the two major clubs there is very little chance of ever seeing the CC or the C&CC implementing them.

I am like you and am very wary of grass pitches and mud baths.

peedee


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## Steamdrivenandy

peedee said:


> I am like you and am very wary of grass pitches and mud baths.peedee


Slightly OT PD but back at the beginning of June, in the heatwave, we stayed at Lady Margaret Park CC site for a few days. We arrived a bit late and only grass pitches were available. As it happened the grass was in good nick and the ground firm so no problems.

We then moved on to the Riverside site at Betws y Coed and were allocated a hardstanding pitch covered in pale grey chippings. It was immediately noticeable that the sun reflecting off the stone made the pitch feel much hotter. The site's grass pitch area, looked very pleasant, cooler and fresher but totally empty. I asked reception if we could move to grass but was told that they didn't allow motorhomes to use the grass pitches.

So we roasted for four days!

SDA


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## Grizzly

jonegood said:


> I think UK is missing out on a massive opportunity to attract more european tourist to UK by not having an aires network. This could be done soooo cheaply by changing the regs on selected carparks and providing a limited number of bornes.


I agree and the aire at Canterbury proves that it can be done. Colin Perris, who is responsible for that, is a far sighted ( and very nice !) man.

Have you lobbied your local authority to point out how useful such a facility would be ? We have a place where motorhomes can overnight in my local town. It has no facilities - though there is water and loos close by- and it is expensive but it is there and in the MHF database. Goodness knows; We need the trade !

Oxford however have a dedicated place for MHs to park - also in the database- but they are implacable in refusing to even think about allowing overnighting there. There is a C&CC site over the road from it but they do not have a lot of space to provide aire type facilities and they are booked solid in summer as you would expect. An overnighting place in Redbridge - as at Canterbury-would be useful.

I'd be very interested to hear a reasoned response from the two clubs so will ask.

G


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## locovan

Im wondering-- if it is felt that it is a waste of time to get the Main clubs to help that we should make the most of the splended stopovers that are available through other web pages.
These people that have worked so hard to compile the lists should have our backing and we should use their list's

http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/onight.htm

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/stopovers_news.shtml

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/ukaires.shtml


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## Grizzly

locovan said:


> t we should make the most of the splended stopovers that are available through other web pages.
> l


Good thinking Mavis. Certainly for the first link you are asked to contribute any information about places you know where provision is made for MHs so ask your local authority and write in.

G


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Thanks for the usefull links Mavis.

One clubs loss is someone elses gain


Dave P


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## foll-de-roll

With the burgeoning number of Travellers sites throughout the Country, would you not be better teaming up with them, as you seem to have a common ethos (ie squatting on other peoples Property, provision of facilities, at Tax Payers expense etc). Just a thought!! Cheers


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## pippin

Wow Foll-de-Roll, I hope you have got your helmet and body armour on ready for the flak that is about to come your way!

I for one am not looking for "free" overnighting.

Just go back to the origins of the provisions of Stellplatzen/Aires/Sostas.

Enlightened local communities realised that there was a commercial benefit in attracting motorhomers WHO WOULD SPEND MONEY in their community.

Quid pro Quo.


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## peedee

I'm with you Pippin, I am also not looking for free overnight parking, just a no frills secure pitch. I am also not rising to the bait.

I think the very fact these web site do indicate where you can stay and the attempts to set up "aire" type facilities indicates there is a demand which the clubs are not providing.

peedee


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## locovan

Foll-de-Roll --Unlike Travellers we all Pay our Taxes, Licences and fuel so we can Travel (freedom to Roam)
All we are asking for is a system of Aires and the tolerance that exsists abroad for Motorhomes.
They are so Motorhome friendly I just wish we had that here.
:lol:


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## peejay

Great idea G,

I'm with you all the way in what will probably be an uphill battle, but if you don't give it a go you'll never know.

Just my thoughts for now..
I would like to see the pricing somewhere in line with the caravan club 'economy pitches' if they still have that system. It used to be £5 per night last time I used one. A bit more would be ok.
Try to add minimal workload for wardens - there should be no advance booking, just turn up and if there is a slot use it, if not move on. All the warden would need to do is check membership card on arrival. No pitch reserved signs, if you leave the pitch then its immediately open for another member to use. Definately no hook ups and a maximum stay of 1 night.
One possible fly in the ointment I can see is they might want to charge full pitch fee where access to the toilet blocks is available.

I would certainly use them  

Pete


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## Annsman

That "Foll de Roll"! What a card! How we laughed! :wink: 

Now, if we could only get a place where we could also burn off copper wire, hold dog fights and dismantle transit vans, I for one will be heading out there tomorrow. Lucky heather anyone?


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## jonegood

Hi grizzley

Yes I have tried our local authority, identified a perfect spot next to the river in an existing p/d carpark where they had plans to build a toilet block anyway. It was perfect,.....untill the idiots who lead us decided that Shrewsbury would have to go unitary and my 'onside' councillor didnt make the cut.

I m going to have another go but need to let the dust settle a bit first - they re too confused right now bless em.

Jon


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Pegs for sale .

Cheap tarmac drives

dave P


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## TheBoombas

The Motor Caravaners club use to run a Safe Knights" Scheme. Were members would register there location if they had a spare parking place for a motorhome to stay overnight for free. (Not sure if they still do?)

I did register on this when I was a member and we had two vans stay in that year. I also offered hook-up and fresh water and as the sewage cover is also on the drive they had access to dump as well.

As I said it was a free service but one couple gave us two nice bottles of wine and the other family stuffed a tenner in the letterbox with a nice thank you letter.

I'd be more than willing to do this sort of thing again if a proper system was in place. We have the space for one van next to ours so it's a not a problem. (Once I tidy it up that is)
I'm not saying we live in the safest place in the country but it's ok and better than a noisey lay-by. Close to M3 M27, South Cost etc

Just a thought. Brian & Lorraine


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## peedee

Boombas, have you seen >this<

peedee


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## yozz

It seems to me there's a lot of support for the idea of Aires/Stopover points or whatever you prefer to call them. There's also different ideas to how this can be achieved. 

Through individuals offering some space on their drive, through local councils offering Aire type facilities in village or town hall spaces, through an extension of the C&CC 3 hour scheme. Or maybe appealing to the big players like the CC and the NT who have the backing of MP's. There's also other players that haven't been mentioned that are involved in 'managing' our wild spaces for us - Water Boards for example.


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## locovan

yozz said:


> It seems to me there's a lot of support for the idea of Aires/Stopover points or whatever you prefer to call them. There's also different ideas to how this can be achieved.
> 
> Through individuals offering some space on their drive, through local councils offering Aire type facilities in village or town hall spaces, through an extension of the C&CC 3 hour scheme. Or maybe appealing to the big players like the CC and the NT who have the backing of MP's. There's also other players that haven't been mentioned that are involved in 'managing' our wild spaces for us - Water Boards for example.


Well thats a great Idea as we in Kent MCC and the Sussex Group Rally at Bewl Water Lamberhurst Land owned by the Water Board,
Fishing, Sailing, Walking and Riding Bikes all permitted so Ideal.
And there are many such sites all across the UK.

http://www.bewl.co.uk/


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## Grizzly

The concensus of opinion is as expected; 

We'd gladly pay a sensible sum,
We don't want all-singing facilities 
We'd not be a nuisance to anyone or leave any sign of our presence 
To set up suitable facilities would cost a sum that would be manageable for the clubs and possibly nothing at all for other institutions.
We'd not arrive in droves and swamp an area. 
We would bring some financial support to a community in the form of money spent in supermarkets, local shops, pubs, restaurants and attractions. In these days of failing firms this can only be a good thing.
Fewer motorhomes would be parked at the roadside if dedicated parking was provided for them. This is clearly critical in some places.
We are not taking trade from CL/CS/Club sites- we use them too.

So why are there so very few aires provided in this country ?

Ask your local authority and, I'd like to bet, there will be one overwhelming answer.

G


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## yozz

Hi G

The reason is that the people who want Aire type stopover points here need to talk face to face and take it from there 
 8)


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## Rapide561

*Aires*

Hi

I will add that in two years time, after I have been a member of the CCC for five years, I shall be standing for the committee and will take your comments forward. In the meantime, I suggest as many as possible email the two big Clubs in respect of G's opening post.

At the municipal site inObernai, France, there is an "overflow" area and from my experience it was free. Yes, I know, the words pig, fly and outside the window spring to mind.

Russell


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## foll-de-roll

"I would like to bet, there is one overwhelming answer" (Quote)


"CAMPSITES"


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## Grizzly

foll-de-roll said:


> "I would like to bet, there is one overwhelming answer"
> "CAMPSITES"


That's not the one I've been given whenever I've asked.

G


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## JockandRita

Grizzly said:


> Surely this is 6 metres ?
> 
> I don't know who makes this regulation which does not seem to be universal on all caravan sites and is, I suspect, a Club regulation.
> 
> I'm not suggesting they pack them in as on continental aires but there are few sites who could not find a space safe enough for 5 or 6 vans. Many already have a late arrivals area on which vans are definitely not spaced at 6 m intervals and presumably are using gas so there must be some flexibility.
> 
> G


Hi Chris,
The 6 mtr (20ft) should be universal on all UK licensed sites, as per LA licensing.

*The legislation relating to caravan sites is the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. This requires that caravan sites are licenced by the local authority, following planning permission being obtained. However, there are certain exemptions, including:

* A caravan sited within the curtilage of a dwelling and its use incidental to the dwelling:
* Sites occupied by exempted organisations such as the Caravan Club; or
* A site for tents only can be used for a maximum of 28 days in any 12 months.

If there are any alterations to the site, for example, change of ownership, change of name or alteration of the site layout, the local authority must be notified and requested to give their consent to such alterations.

All caravan sites are issued with a Site Licence, which stipulates conditions which the site licence holder must adhere to. These Conditions relate to a number of issues including: the types of caravans permitted on the site, the season, fire safety and the spacing between caravans. These are attached to the licence to ensure the health and safety of the site residents. Caravan sites are inspected periodically to ensure compliance with the Site Licence Conditions. *

More info can be found somewhere in this >>OPSI Document<<.

Rita and I too, are supportive of the "Aires" principle here in the UK 
Good luck with it.

Jock.


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## Grizzly

Thanks Jock...there's a lot of meat in that and some interesting clauses.

I wonder why, for example this appears in the England and Wales section but is omitted from the Scottish one ?

_ 24 (c) to provide, in or in connection with sites for the accommodation of gipsies, working space and facilities for the carrying on of such activities as are normally carried on by them, _

It does however answer some other questions and, I can't see that a local authority can quote it as a reason for not providing aires.

G


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## pippin

The missing word(s) is (are):

"Gens de voyage"

It is against PCness to use the English words - but you all know what they are!

We should tell the paranoid local authorities to import a load of French Gendarmes - the "gens de voyage" resume their voyage PDQ the moment they turn up!

Every entrance road to the town of Sarlat-la-Canéda has a large sign prohibiting Gyps - oops - gens de voyage from stopping in the town.

Le problème a résolu!


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## peedee

Grizzly said:


> I wonder why, for example this appears in the England and Wales section but is omitted from the Scottish one ?


Could it be because there is a right to wild camp in Scotland?

peedee


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## foll-de-roll

COST


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## foll-de-roll

Hi I don't think there is a right to wildcamp in Scotland, there is a Right to Roam, but anyway you are talking about wild parking!! Big difference.


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## weaver6

I believe there is a right to wildcamp in Scotland - if you erect your tent next to the motorhome!!

I too am tired of being ripped off for electricity at both CC sites and CL's, when I have no need of it.

Colin


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## Rapide561

*Tesco*

Maybe, just maybe, Tesco would be a better bet to set up an aires network. Think about it. Fuel, water, toilets, food, space......sounds too easy.

Email en route to Tesco.

They could even have an Aire de Service machine that accepts ClubCards for the loyal customers!!!!!!

Russell

Every little helps.


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## pippin

One of the problems that might arise is where Tesco (et al) have contracted out their carpark to a money-grabbing ticket-issuing parking firm who have no interest in the customers spending money in the shop. 

Happens here in Aberystwyth in the car park that serves Argos/Iceland/Lidl.

Motorhomes? Not a chance unless they fit in a regular car-size space.


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