# morocco. angry guardian. a stone. cracked seitz window.



## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

Hi All -

I learned the hard way today to make sure you pay the correct guardian at the Agadir Souk parking. He is the one at the exit.

My lesson comes in the form of a cracked seitz window, caused by a stone launched at a high velocity from the hand of such guardian.

What I'm wondering now is... is there a way to prevent the cracks from traveling and becoming bigger?

The crack is about 3 or 4 inches across. A nice star shape to it.

Also, when measuring for replacements. Where do you measure from? From one edge of the plastic window to the other, when it is open?

Thank you-
Matt


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## bullitt68 (Jan 1, 2015)

That's not good bet you were pretty peed off. Think I would have lobbed it back. Hope you get it sorted.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

We hauled him down to the police. The police at the souk dragged heels as I suppose the guardians shared their spoils with the local police. we convinced them to go to the central police. they were a little harder and say there will be a trial and he will probably get 1 month. Not that I'm happy about that -- but he did something quite wrong and so I hope he will be punished. 

lesson learned though. if someone wants 3 Dihram, you just pay the stupid 20 pence, doesn't matter if you've just paid it before to someone else. 20 pence for now a 500 pound part!

Anyhow.. any ideas about keeping the cracks from traveling? 

Thanks 
Matt


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Drill very small holes into the end of the cracks and then fill them with silicone or superglue. I presume the cracks are only in the outer layer!
Then asap, replace the window!


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi
right about drilling a small hole just at the end of the crack
fill the hole with putty or similar, im a bit worried as some silicones ar a little corrosive and may attack the plastic

barry


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Matt, sorry to hear about that.

We had 2 x large double glazed perspex/plastic rooflights (80cm x 50cm) cracked and smashed by a hail storm while we were away recently, I think your windows will be of similar construction.

Doubt you will have any problems with the cracks becoming bigger, just do a temporary bodge and seal the crack with duct tape or similar and check it regularly, it should hold and prevent any water getting in.

Doesn't look pretty but will do the job until you can get the pane replaced. Worked for us and kept watertight for about 3 weeks until we got back to UK.

The other option as mentioned is to seal the crack with superglue or similar and might look neater, we couldn't do that as some bits of our outer panes were missing, blown away in the storm.

Pete


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

If a Seitz window it will have a sticker in the top corner with all of the info necessary to order a new one.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

yes just the outer layer. That's good news.. I hadn't realized there were two layers.

drill a hole!? seriously?? 

An earlier post suggested 2 part clear epoxy resin.

Why replace the window ASAP?


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

Actually, I can sort of see the logic in drilling a very small hole. keep it from traveling. 

But do you all think drilling won't cause a new crack where the drill goes in? 

How many mm bit would you suggest? Possible to get a sub mm drill bit? 

I don't have the money to invest in a new window. I'll live with the ugliness. Will serve as a reminder not to fuss around with people that have nothing to lose.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

nafricasurfer said:


> yes just the outer layer. That's good news.. I hadn't realized there were two layers.
> 
> drill a hole!? seriously??
> 
> ...


Yes, seriously from a time served boatbuilder. IT will work, but you need confidence to do it!
Remember, you are going to replace the window, when you get home!
Just think, will the very small holes stop the crack spreading ? YES and the sealer will stop water getting in! Yes
You wanted a solution, it is there!

Incidentally, I have done this many times with Gelcoat (the outer layer of GRP and it works!


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## johntaylor (Mar 23, 2014)

Drilling the end of a crack to stop a crack running, is a well tried and tested engineering principle. It works on any material that can crack, even cast iron! No repair, temporary or otherwise, is likely to last unless it is done, as the crack will travel past anything used to bind it, but cracks seldom "jump" holes. As said, even on a cast iron engine or boiler casing, the end of the crack is drilled, then the cracks "stitched" before a repair is made.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks John, I can't believe that the person wanting help, dismissed the only real answer!

Basically, he either does it, or takes the chance of it spreading.
Which it will!


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

> Drilling the end of a crack to stop a crack running, is a well tried and tested engineering principle. It works on any material that can crack, even cast iron! No repair, temporary or otherwise, is likely to last unless it is done, as the crack will travel past anything used to bind it, but cracks seldom "jump" holes. As said, even on a cast iron engine or boiler casing, the end of the crack is drilled, then the cracks "stitched" before a repair is made.


This is why this forum is so good. I would never have thought of doing that. Hopefully I will never have to . But this is worth knowing.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

peejay.. sorry to hear your windows were destroyed. I'm fearing someday a hailstorm will catch us unawares. we want the windows to last as we made a first stop with some bozos in Hungary that sikaflexed them in right tight. Before I knew what sikaflex is. 

So.. am I right in that Seitz windows are made from PMMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate))

If so, then I'll probably want a sealant specific for that material. I'll go looking.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

Grath & John -

OK. I'll do it. Probably about 8 holes to drill. 

It's hard to imagine, but I'll do it. Just yesterday thinking about how I needed to sand out some scratches and now tomorrow taking the drill to it!

Do you have a suggestion how small the hole can be? I suppose the answer is.. "the smallest drill bit I can find" ?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

nafricasurfer said:


> Grath & John -
> 
> OK. I'll do it. Probably about 8 holes to drill.
> 
> ...


Yes as small a drill bit you can get, Don't worry, it will work! Just be gentle with the drill!


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

read some more about the procedure. A couple people suggest drilling a small hole 2-3mm past the end of the crack.

As for the glue, after an hour reading I've found a few options:

"Amyl Acetate" -- suggestion on a prior post, but the poster was not 100% if that was the name. http://goo.gl/ijMsnA

cyanoacrylate cement (commonly known as superglue) (from wikipedia pmma article: http://goo.gl/AuZFB5)

adhesive in B&Q called "Plastic Glue" http://goo.gl/oqz8E9
(probably Loctite plastic glue. http://goo.gl/o4Cm42)

Methalyne chloride http://www.wikihow.com/Glue-Plexiglas

I'm down in Morocco... they have something like a pretty small B&Q (a third the size) I'll go tomorrow to see what they have. Crossing fingers.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

By the way.. why is everyone unanimous in the need to replace the window. Is this because, drill or not, glue or not, the cracks will eventually spread and the window will shatter?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I think you have misunderstand.
You can't use Gelcoat, Gelcoat is the outer shiny layer of GRP
I was just implying, that Gelcoat is drilled in the same manner to stop a star crack spreading. 
Regarding the sealant or glue. I don't think it will matter much what you use as it is only a temporary measure, until you get home and replace the window. All you need, is to stop water getting in.
Nothing complicated!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

nafricasurfer said:


> By the way.. why is everyone unanimous in the need to replace the window. Is this because, drill or not, glue or not, the cracks will eventually spread and the window will shatter?


No, if you drill the cracks will not spread, but a new window is the only real permanent repair, to look as new!
Have I helped? if yes, a thanks might have been nice


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

ok that's welcome news. I think I will probably just leave it. Don't want to spend that money. 

Plus, my theory is that if the outside of the camper looks shabby, then we'll get less unwanted attention. 

It might just drive me nuts looking at it though. We'll see. First step... drill. egad


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Academic as I suppose that it would be difficult to find where you are but. Tensol no. 12 cement applied with a syringe would fill the crack and seal it. Can be messy if you are clumsy but it will flow into the crack by capillory action. Worth a local google maybe

Dick


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

If none of the other suggested adhesives/fillers are available you might want to try acetone, often available at pharmacies.

Apply very carefully so that it runs into the cracks.

It dissolves most plastics so the bond is made by the same material.

Use a pointed matchstick or the like to apply it into the cracks.

Do not let it run down the window as it will spoil the surface.

Perhaps have the window horizontal as you do it.

Or even remove the window (dead easy) first so you can do it in comfort.

You still need to drill the tiny holes first though.

Acetone is used extensively by boat builders and surf-board makers/repairers so they could be another source of supply.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

Hi Dick -

Thanks for the tip.

Did a Google and found a link to a data sheet for the Tensol 12. Here it is: http://goo.gl/f66YMs

It says that "EVO-PLAS TENSOL 12 should not be used for outdoor applications" Though it does not say why not.

I wonder if using this stuff may allow me to get away with not drilling the holes. I'm tempted to start with this stuff. (if I can find it), measure the cracks, then check back after some time has passed to see if they are getting bigger.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

We had stone-damage to a rear window back in March I think. It was quite extensive.

I didn't know about drilling the ends of the cracks but I covered it with strips of duct tape - starting at the bottom and working up so that the upper overlapped the lower bands.

It's certainly not pretty, but it's held well. It wasn't actually on the list of things for our repairer to do, but he suggested it - will see how much it's going to cost first.

It's a rear bed window which hardly ever has the blinds up so it's not getting in the way of a good view.


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## johntaylor (Mar 23, 2014)

http://www.plasticgenius.com/2009/03/repairing-crack-in-plexiglass.html


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Forgot to say, I cleaned well with vinegar before starting.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

I did a bit of reading on Acetone as a sealant... 

sounds like most prefer this stuff called "weld on". Seems like it's sold in the states, but I think the Tensol 12 is the similar UK thing.

Sounds like Acetone is melting the plastic and not necessarily putting it back together well.

Though, I saw some other thing that said the Tensol 12 stuff may cause discoloration. 

all of this is probably just theory as who knows what they'll actually have for sale here in Morocco.


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

After doing more reading (getting late!), I think I can confidently say that for bonding, I'd want to use either superglue or Dichloromethane. 

Not acetone because it weakens the plastic.

Not the 2 part clear epoxy resin because it is apparently not clear, but cloudy?


Not sure where I'll find Dichloromethane, as it is a carcinogen. However, I see that it is a primary ingredient in paint thinners. So maybe I'll find some there.


Cheers. Good night.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Grath said:


> Drill very small holes into the end of the cracks and then fill them with silicone or superglue. I presume the cracks are only in the outer layer!
> Then asap, replace the window!


Have you done it OK :?:


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## nafricasurfer (Jan 22, 2014)

Yes! 10 1mm holes drilled. Wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Drew quite a crowd at the campground though. Was joking with others that I could drill their windows and for a good price too.

Hitting the crack with a 1mm bit takes a fair bit of concentration. Missed a couple but you hardly would notice it.

Not sure what to do about sealing it. The better stuff seems to be the dimethyl chloride. But hard to find here in Morocco. Second best seems to be super glue, but may be messy. I'm not sure how easy it will be to get the window off.

Thank you everyone for your help. I would have never thought to drill holes, but it makes sense.

Cheers


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

nafricasurfer said:


> Yes!
> 
> Hitting the crack with a 1mm bit takes a fair bit of concentration. Missed a couple but you hardly would notice it.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks for update
You do need the hole to be into the crack or it could still spread. If need be, drill a slightly larger hole.
I was wondering what glue windscreen repairers use, maybe this would be OK


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

> I'm not sure how easy it will be to get the window off.


If it is a Seitz, remove the stays that hold the window open (1 self tapper) then lift the window to more than 90 degrees and you can simply lift the window off of its pivot bar.


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