# On Board Fresh Water Problem!



## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Guys

Have a Peugeot Avantgarde 140 (07) which tonight decided to slowly dribble some fresh water out of its tap and then stop! When you turn the tap on its just like a whirring/grinding noise with no water (hot and cold), I have checked the water levels and they are fine and there is power to the pump!

Any suggestions?

Peter


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Have you just filled the water tank up? If so the pump may need priming.

C.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

Peter.. check the gauze filter on the water tank inlet side of the pump

Les


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Clive no we have had water in it for a day.

Tinkering that sounds hopeful, is it a big job?

Peter


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If there is a whirring from the pump when you run it (tap open) then there must be a blockage somewhere.

If it is switching on when the tap is opened it would suggest to me that the tap is building up pressure but that no water is getting through from the pump to the tap, check all the pipework that you can find for blockages, kinks or similar. 

It could be a blockage in the taps but that would seem unlikely with hot and cold both affected.

If you can carefully take the pipes off the tap you could check if water is leaving the pump and work logically along like that. But only if you are happy to do so........

If no water is coming out then any blockage must be on the tank side of the pump........

Or the pump may have a blockage in it - but I think it would be unlikely to whir if it was blocked there....

Good luck,

Dave


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

The level gauges are well known for failing
Have you tried putting more water in the tank

Alan H


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

tinkering said:


> Peter.. check the gauze filter on the water tank inlet side of the pump
> 
> Les


Is it possible to access the pump, is it a submersible one?

If so it is quite common for these pumps, which are supposed to be self priming, not to. They are used extensively on caravans where they are placed in the portable water containers. Very often the pump will be heard to run, but with a different sound than when working correctly. The fix is to lift the pump and shake it whilst it is on and in the water. This primes it and the sound changes note and water is pumped.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

If you're sure there's water in, first check using the tap/shower in the washroom to see if you get same result.

I would then persevere for a while...I've got the same model and when it's drained down, it can sometimes take an age for the pump to prime when next used (especially on hot water side). 

I'm never sure if I've done the right thing...running the pump with it straining while it primes can't do it any favours, but not draining the system down in entirety could result in frost damage. The pump/tank isn't accessible.

Paul


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

Peter ..As Paul states that your pump and tank are hard to get at

May I suggest a old trick for clearing air locks in water pipes
If the flexible shower hose will reach out side the toilet window remove the shower head from the flexible hose(don't lose the sealing ring)..Open the cold tap.. Remove the standard hose fitting from the hose pipe.. connect the garden hose to the flex shower hose using.. hardly any water pressure ie just a small trickle..hopefully this will purge the system of any air.. leave on for a few moments before removing the water hose and trying the water pump again.

Les


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## machilly (Feb 10, 2007)

SwoopnNick said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Have a Peugeot Avantgarde 140 (07) which tonight decided to slowly dribble some fresh water out of its tap and then stop! When you turn the tap on its just like a whirring/grinding noise with no water (hot and cold), I have checked the water levels and they are fine and there is power to the pump!
> 
> ...


I had a similar problem a few years bag on my Hymer, opened the taps and could hear the pump, but no water, Pump was broken
the impeller part was not turning but the pump motor was.

Regards


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Have you used the van since the 'big freeze'? When we prepared for our first trip this year in our Murvi, I found the clear plastic dome on the inlet filter (tecnically a strainer) to the Whale pump was shattered. Presumably despite meticulously draining the system etc, a drop of water had remained in there over the winter and it had frozen and broken the little plastic dome.

Part easily obtained and a 30 second job to replace, but access is so easy through the back door on our van. Lots of places where water might not have drained could cause a similar problem.


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Also check that the little plastic filter isn't just loose.

It happened to us when we had just arrived in France for a 6 week tour.

Thought we had a big problem and would need a new pump. I phoned my dealer and they suggested first checking the plastic inlet filter and when I did it was loose. Once I had tightened it all was ok and the pump & water worked.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Guys thanks for your help.

I feel a little stupid here but where is the pump on my motorhome, I cannot locate it, it sounds like it could be in the water tank underneath the van but it's now died and I cannot hear or locate it (last day today of our holiday with the van).

Strange thing it has been fine for the last two weeks until last night!!!

Sorry for being so stupid on this one  

Peter


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

You're not stupid Peter...I'm watching this with interest because I'm not at all sure where it is myself...

Paul


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Rosbotham said:


> You're not stupid Peter...I'm watching this with interest because I'm not at all sure where it is myself...
> 
> Paul


Oh Heck Paul were not doing so good on this one!

Just back on the Isle of Man from a trip around the UK and I could not find the pump in the lockers!

I can only assume it is somewhere under the van!?

I will have a look in the next day or so to see if I can locate it.

Ironically the latest edition of MMM has an article all about changing a fresh water pump, so I need to read it!

Let me know if you locate yours!

Peter


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Peter, im flying blind here, but your 140 looks very much like my 400.
Do you have the loo smack opposite the door, with a 'wardrobe' next to it? If so, the tank with the pump inside is under the floor of this locker. Theres only a handfull of screws holds the timber fascias covering it, if you can access it and maybe waggle the pump on its tube, maybe this will have some effect?

Good luck. Mick.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks Mick

Would I be right in thinking that the pump would be underneath the gas boiler which is in the wardrobe? I think there is a little gap under the boiler!

Yes my layout looks just like yours, toilet opposite door and wardrobe with gas boiler beneath next to that!

Cheers Mick.

Peter


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Well I'm intrigued and went and took a look since ours is parked on the drive ready to go away tomorrow.

The 140 is the successor of the 400....basically the same layout.

Also, that void under the wardrobe just has a loose fit piece of hardboard over it now, allowing access to the Truma under there. However, as I thought the pump isn't in there...I suspected as such because the noise of it comes from further back, as if it's in the locker under the seat behind it.

However, I just set our tap flowing slowly trying to track where the pump noise comes from, and I'm convinced it's beneath the floor of that locker. Given this is where the tank is, I fear the pump is a submersible one within the tank itself, and I'm not convinced there's a way of getting to the tank.

May be advisable to speak to your dealer.

Of course, my hearing may be dodgy...

Paul


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Oh dear I am a bit confused now!

Anyone else help?

We are looking for the location of fresh water pump on a Peugeot Avantgarde 140 (07)???

Peter and (Paul)!


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Rosbotham said:


> Well I'm intrigued and went and took a look since ours is parked on the drive ready to go away tomorrow.
> 
> The 140 is the successor of the 400....basically the same layout.
> 
> ...


Are you confusing the space heater with the water heater here? If indeed these two layouts are the same, the Truma space heater can be accessed from this locker - the Truma water heater is under the bench seat in the far nearside corner.
The water pump as far as im aware is in the water tank, under the floor of the locker adjacent to the loo. The water tank can be accessed by removing a few screws that hold the plywood covering together. I know because ive recently worked on my tank to secure it better. Theres two cables entering the top of the tank, one is the sensor, the other, i believe, is for the pump.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

No, looks like there's differences in layout then Mick.

Assuming Pete's 140 is a basic one like mine (no blown heating upgrade), there's a truma Ultrastore water heater under the wardrobe. On the face of that locker (ie under the wardrobe door) is the space heater, which in essence is a gas fire. See image 21 here...the space heater's a Truma Ultraheat, but it doesn't protrude into the void beneath the wardrobe at all.

Only thing that's under the seats is the gas locker (obviously only accessible from outside) on the offside, battery locker on the nearside.

Paul


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Paul, it seems theyve relocated the water heater. As i say, mines over in the far corner under the bench seat/bed.

Given the blown air system (which i have) doesnt take up that much room, i can only assume theyve maybe put the water heater in there to act as a frost inhibitor for the tank when the vans used in cold weather? Or, it could be just to save a yard of pipe by not inexpilcably siteing the heater so far away from its outlets??


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## machilly (Feb 10, 2007)

Although my motorhome is a Hymer,my Pump is inside the tank, it is accesible from under one of the seats.
The pump is easily removed , when I got mine changed it only took about 20 minutes..

regards


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

machilly said:


> Although my motorhome is a Hymer,my Pump is inside the tank, it is accesible from under one of the seats.
> The pump is easily removed , when I got mine changed it only took about 20 minutes..
> 
> regards


Thanks Alex

I am pretty confident that when we eventually locate the fresh water pump it can relatively easily be replaced.

The problem were having is finding it on the Peugeot Avantgarde 140.

Just thought that someone could confirm to me (and Paul) where exactly the fresh water pump is!!

Cheers Alex

Peter


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Does anyone have any contact email details for Elddis.co.uk?

I have searched there site and cannot find any contact email address.

I want to ask them if they know where the fresh water pump is on our Avantgarde 140.

Cheers

Peter


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Sounds like the dreaded air lock.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi teensvan

Definitely a bit more serious than a dreaded air lock.

Just cannot find the pump!!

Arrrrgh!!!

Peter


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Peter, is this to all intents and purposes 'your' locker/wardrobe?

Id partially fill the tank, remove this lid, and give the pump a waggling while its running. If this didnt work, you should at least be able to look see if the impellors spinning etc.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Mick

Thank you for taking the time to do this for us 

The layout is the same but in our wardrobe locker is the Truman water heater only.

Now looking at your black tank I have a gut feeling it is slung underneath the middle/back of the underside of our van!

I need to get under it to confirm that there is a screw type cap on the tank to remove the pump (if that is where it is on our Avantgarde 140)

Cheers Mick for all your help mate.

Peter


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

No probs mate...it may help someone else further down the line? I certainly learned something from this foray earlier. Theres a drain tap at the base of this tank that i didnt know about - so it wasnt all for nothing!

If your van is the same layout/size, the tank should be visible from either under the lounge seats, or beneath the van - which would surprise me if its there. Do you know how big its meant to be, as mines about 100litres, and not easily 'lost'.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

SwoopnNick said:


> Hi Mick
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to do this for us
> 
> ...


Can you follow the filler hose from the fill point to the tank?It's not going to be far away


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Peter, my monies on the pump being in the tank. Given your filler appears to be on the offside rear wheel arch, the tank has to be very near there - under the bench seat at a guess.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Mick and Ray

Just had a quick scratch under the van (without getting right underneath) and the tank is definitely slung underneath!

Mick the capacity is a mere chronic 45/50litres 

Just got to work out how I am going to access the pump now!!!

Peter :?


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## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

In your initial post you said you got a trickle of water from the tap then nothing. Are you sure the Truma water heater has not dumped and the dump valve is still open as this will prevent water coming out of the taps as it is trying to fill the boiler.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

charlieivan said:


> In your initial post you said you got a trickle of water from the tap then nothing. Are you sure the Truma water heater has not dumped and the dump valve is still open as this will prevent water coming out of the taps as it is trying to fill the boiler.


Tried that charlieivan!

Peter


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Sorry, lousy mobile coverage where I am at present so wasn't able to access this thread yesterday (and may not be online again for rest of week!)

For info, the watertank on the 140 is definitely underslung, ie not in the seat bases. It's raining at the moment so I'm not going to step out and look, but it's clearly visible underneath, from memory it's pretty much between the rear wheels (perhaps a little further back - front of tank is in line with the centre of the wheels).

Question is, if the pump is inside it (I think so), can it be accessed without dropping the tank of its mountings/by somehow taking up the floor. You need an agent of Elddis to tell you that (their website is pretty good at telling you to go away and speak to your dealer rather than contacting direct).

Paul


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Right Guys I have found the offending article (Reich 12v Submersible pump). It was somehow burnt out as you can see by the below image!

I had to get under the van and undo the fresh water inlet tube, the blue plastic water pipe that hooks up to the Reich pump and the drain pipe, then I had to unbolt one cradle clamp bolt which then drops the 50L plastic tank.

There is a lid on the plastic tank which gives access to the pump and the gauge that tells you how full the tank is.

When I eventually disassembled the elbow joint that connects to the pump it was evident that the pump had burnt itself out (see below image) we can only assume that either the pump has been running dry or when we were away at Christmas in the freezing temperatures that the pump has overworked itself with freezing water!!!

Anyway I have ordered a new pump from the 12v shop for £32 and it should be easy enough to fit when it arrives.

Hope this helps!

Peter


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

This beats reality TV! Hope it gets sorted, keep us posted.


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Brock said:


> This beats reality TV! Hope it gets sorted, keep us posted.


Hee...heee :lol:

Will do, just contemplating a nice bottle of red because I have worked soooo hard all afternoon :lol:

Peter 8)


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Good work Peter. I'm guessing there may be some swear words involved in getting it back on again....

Paul


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Paul

In all honesty it wasn't to bad getting it off and I don't really see too many issues putting it back.

Of course I will keep you informed how things go in putting it back.

Peter


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## SwoopnNick (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Guys

Got the new 12v Reich pump last week, fitted it today and sealed it inside the water tank, slung the tank back under the van and it took about a good hour to do after sealing all the pipework up etc.

Then the moment of truth, we filled the fresh water tank and woosh, hardly any purging and absolutely fantastic pressure we are really delighted as the pressure is better than we have ever had.

All said and done it has been for the best and thanks to everyone for all your fantastic help  

Peter and Nicky.


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