# Phones financial weakness.



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I am always amazed that banks and other financial institutions keep plugging away at us to use their banking apps.
Every issue of Computer Magazine tells us of the vulnerability of these apps and how many millions of users are at risk and that online fraud is costing us all billions.

I personally absolutely refuse to access any financial or sensitive information by phone. But millions still do.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I am 100% in agreement with Ray.

We do however do all of our banking on line BUT the security measures involved are, to my mind, very impressive, with some they text me a one time only code to use, with another it’s “do you recognise this picture” and ask for various characters from a preset word, another requires me to put my card into a reader which then issues me with a code to use etc etc. NONE of that is (to my knowledge) used on phone banking. 

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

The only problem I have with the 'One time code' sent to a phone is the phone can be in another place or number changed. At least mine is.
The secondary level of security is usually the same questions. DoB, mothers maiden name and first pets name or memorable place. Hardly deep and secure.

Ray.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

raynipper said:


> The only problem I have with the 'One time code' sent to a phone is the phone can be in another place or number changed. At least mine is.
> The secondary level of security is usually the same questions. DoB, mothers maiden name and first pets name or memorable place. Hardly deep and secure.
> 
> Ray.


I can't do anything over the phone other than ask questions re my account, but only after answering their questions regarding my accounts. That is as far as I can go.

Drew


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

May as well just hand it all over.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Had a very interesting text message from my bank this week. I do use online banking but not via telephone or apps.

The text message was warning me of fraud attempts where the fraudsters were sending text messages to phones. I suppose that's common enough but here's the bit I found rather worrying. It said the fraudsters were "adding their fraudulent message into the genuine ******* Bank text stream".

I was wondering how that could happen without the bank having been hacked. I don't see how it could have. Not that it'll effect me since I don't use the system, whatever it might be, in the first place.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I have been thinking the same as Ray for some time.

With my on-line banking the bank issues a small keypad into which I have to enter my PIN code and which then develops a unique 4 number code which is different every time I log in and has to be entered in a field on the log-in page. If for any reason(e.g. I make a typo in my memorable name) then I have to generate another keypad code as the previous one will not work.

I would not use an app on the phone, but of course I am using the phone when I tether the computer to the smartphone, but with the above keypad number I consider it more secure. I hope I am right.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

In theory a mobile device using Android or IOS should be more secure than using a Windows PC for example. You could argue that there is less chance of one being hacked with malware as they are more bolted down. Windows PCs for example are more vulnerable because they are more open, more wildly used and the users generally have administrative rights to do what they want, download what they want and pretty much set up their own security, or not. With phones usually everything is downloaded from an official App store where apps are vetted and security keys hard coded in both the app and the app server so the server that your phone connects to knows what to expect from the connecting phone.

However the hackers and crims follow the money or they follow where the vast majority of users are. If more people move to mobile technology thats where they will focus their activities I guess.

I never use a phone for banking, too much of a faff on a small screen. I did recently want to apply for a bank account that was app only but the app wouldnt work on my phone. No other way of opening an account other than on a smart phones so it is the way some banks are going.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Apps don't need staff or high street branches, banks are doing their best to phase out cash as they don't make any money out of it, just the opposite, it costs them millions every year to move it around, much cheaper for them to compensate you for losses by hacking, it is the way forward for them, and of course they have the government right behind them as tracking money will be much easier for them to see where the crooks hide their money, can they continue to sell drugs in a cashless society? no more guvvy jobs by builders as they have to account for how they got the money, no cash deals at the builders merchants, VAT collections might actually double, in theory, it should make a for a more honest society, but crooks will ALWAYS find a way to relieve us of our hard earned dosh, whether it be in cash or not.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> I have been thinking the same as Ray for some time.
> With my on-line banking the bank issues a small keypad into which I have to enter my PIN code and which then develops a unique 4 number code which is different every time I log in and has to be entered in a field on the log-in page. If for any reason(e.g. I make a typo in my memorable name) then I have to generate another keypad code as the previous one will not work.
> I would not use an app on the phone, but of course I am using the phone when I tether the computer to the smartphone, but with the above keypad number I consider it more secure. I hope I am right. Geoff


Yes Geoff this two stage verification 'should' be more secure but of course you have to have the card reader with you as well as a current bank card.
I now have 3 readers for my main bank and two more for other banks. Lug that lot round.??

Barry the Google Play Store has been hacked and many apps that are supposed to be secure and then removed because they have been found to be unsecure.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Nothing online is totally safe Ray but some platforms are safer than others but all are hackable. Just depends on how good the security is, how open the systems are and which market the crims decide to go after.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

hi any thing the banks do is purely for their own gain why should i put my finances at risk so they can make more money


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I never keep cash. As soon as I get some, I buy Turnips and hide them under the bed.

Turnips are a great investment .... you know it makes sense. :wink2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

747 said:


> I never keep cash. As soon as I get some, I buy Turnips and hide them under the bed.
> 
> Turnips are a great investment .... you know it makes sense. :wink2:


I am ruined thanks to your Turnip investment advice! I stored all mine out in the back garden and woke up one morning to find this!


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

Until and unless someone actually can give some real examples of someones security being breached, resulting in a loss, and how it was done when they were using a mobile (I use IOS) I will continue to use my phone for banking. It should really be described as a mini computer and I see little difference if any, to using my laptop to access my banking. Of course I mean examples where the correct procedures on passwords and privacy were used, i.e. they didn't do something obviously silly.

Each to their own but I find mobile banking very convenient when travelling and at home. Having said that I would not access my banking when connected to a wifi network I do not know since I cannot be certain it would be secure.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

iandsm said:


> Until and unless someone actually can give some real examples of someones security being breached, resulting in a loss, and how it was done when they were using a mobile (I use IOS) I will continue to use my phone for banking. It should really be described as a mini computer and I see little difference if any, to using my laptop to access my banking. Of course I mean examples where the correct procedures on passwords and privacy were used, i.e. they didn't do something obviously silly.
> 
> Each to their own but I find mobile banking very convenient when travelling and at home. Having said that I would not access my banking when connected to a wifi network I do not know since I cannot be certain it would be secure.


Roger on Fruitcakes (ex Prof20 on here) gave a link to "The little book of big scams", a Government financed guide to scams. The section on 'using free wifi' was sobering. The crooks are not stupid and you need to be very smart to avoid them.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> I now have 3 readers for my main bank and two more for other banks. Lug that lot round.??
> 
> Ray.


I used to have a reader for Barclays and another for someone else - then was told they were interchangeable, and they were. So only needed to carry one.



iandsm said:


> Each to their own but I find mobile banking very convenient when travelling and at home. Having said that I would not access my banking when connected to a wifi network I do not know since I cannot be certain it would be secure.


+1 to that.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

iandsm said:


> Until and unless someone actually can give some real examples of someones security being breached, resulting in a loss, and how it was done when they were using a mobile (I use IOS) I will continue to use my phone for banking. It should really be described as a mini computer and I see little difference if any, to using my laptop to access my banking. Of course I mean examples where the correct procedures on passwords and privacy were used, i.e. they didn't do something obviously silly.
> 
> Each to their own but I find mobile banking very convenient when travelling and at home. Having said that I would not access my banking when connected to a wifi network I do not know since I cannot be certain it would be secure.


No link but Page 6 Computer Active December 2017 issue.

Ray.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

I also use my phone (Android) for banking, it is a lot faster than on the PC.
At home I use my secure wifi connection, out and about I only use my data connection, only have data turned on as and when I need to.
I can transfer money between accounts on my mobile and pay people providing I have previously set them up on my PC using the supplied card reader and I always get a warning of any activity using the reader.
I am quite happy with this arrangement and feel secure enough to be relaxed but I accept that anything can happen.
As I play by the rules any losses are covered by my bank as happened a couple of years ago when after an internet purchase £300 of equipment was bought from Microsoft via Germany.
My bank contacted me to enquire about this purchase, they ask for your password to verify it is you answering, I always tell them to give me three answers and I will tell them which one is correct after all they should know the answer.
I am not cynical but I like to be careful.


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

My local bank tried to get me to use mobile phone banking stating that they had more security than MI5. Warming to it but not totally convinced as yet, but do all my banking on-line, from my home pc, hard wired not wi-fi & I have the code generator gizmo.

I always use my mobile for the Caxton app.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Public Accounts Committee said victims lose an estimated £10 Billion a year and the true figure might be much higher as only 20% of victims report their losses.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

We have a number of bank accounts, one we use only for our trips away. We “feed” that account with what we think we will need for a few weeks and set up a DD to “drip feed” more every so often when we are away.
My thinking being that if someone gets access to that account they will only get a relatively small amount of my hard earned (rather than the vast fortune I have residing in other accounts :wink2::wink2 

I should be able to spot any fraudulent activity and (hopefully) be able to prevent any further “top up” from the “feeder” account that’s with a different bank. 

I also carry two different credit cards in case of “emergencies” but these are always in the caravans safe (it’s bolted through the floor to the chassis) Oh, and a Caxton Card with a few hundred € on it that I carry in a different place to my wallet. Hopefully I have covered most eventualities.

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

iandsm said:


> Until and unless someone actually can give some real examples of someones security being breached, resulting in a loss, and how it was done when they were using a mobile (I use IOS) I will continue to use my phone for banking. It should really be described as a mini computer and I see little difference if any, to using my laptop to access my banking. Of course I mean examples where the correct procedures on passwords and privacy were used, i.e. they didn't do something obviously silly.
> 
> Each to their own but I find mobile banking very convenient when travelling and at home. Having said that I would not access my banking when connected to a wifi network I do not know since I cannot be certain it would be secure.


We can all be complacent until it hits us Ian. Just be careful.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

raynipper said:


> Public Accounts Committee said victims lose an estimated £10 Billion a year and the true figure might be much higher as only 20% of victims report their losses.
> 
> Ray.


Can that be true Ray? If it is it puts the 8bn or so annual bill for EU membership into context.


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## yarmouth (Nov 1, 2017)

If they hack my bank account they would say, poor bastard and deposit some money in it for me


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Can that be true Ray? If it is it puts the 8bn or so annual bill for EU membership into context.


I don't obviously know that it's 'gospel' Alan but I often read it in Computer Active pages. That's what I have quoted.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

747 said:


> I never keep cash. As soon as I get some, I buy Turnips and hide them under the bed.
> 
> Turnips are a great investment .... you know it makes sense. :wink2:


I prefer carrots acherly, I like a nibble now and then.

Btw, found this and thought of you Jim..


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I prefer carrots acherly, I like a nibble now and then.
> 
> Btw, found this and thought of you Jim..


Your cartoon is a slur on a noble breed and will be deleted instantly.

ps, Carrots are for Rabbits, Turnips are for real men. :smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I cannot do Turnips, they go at the bottom of trouser legs Sir.

Carrots help my weight loss, or would do if I didn't eat so damned many


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

We have been using phone banking for years and so far so good, we only use the phones mobile data to gain access the banks and Caxton never local WiFi and we also use a VPN.


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