# Arto 69(2003) shower tray re-inforcement



## nicholsong

Because of all the stories about shower tray failures, particularly the 2003 Arto69 era, I have been thinking of trying to inject a foam support under my shower tray.

Has anyone tried this? Is there easy access? What foam is strong enough to give good support - I assume that normal building insulation foam would not be up to the job.

Any help welcomed.

Geoff


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi Geoff,

Slightly off topic, but I have done a very similar thing with the Door Entry Step on my own Van as it was sagging slightly.

I used Soudafoam by Soudal and it has worked a treat for me.

The one tip I would give you is this, BE VERY VERY CAREFUL with the foam, it caught me out slightly just how much it expands (think foam party), also have the cleaner to hand and plenty of cloths.

GOOD LUCK


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Too late to edit my OP, I forgot to add, when I say keep cleaner to hand, it is the actual cleaner for the foam. I tried other stuff and it just turns into a black sticky mess. So I would recommend getting the manufacturers cleaner.


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## WildThingsKev

I don't think that using a Polyurethane (PU) foam would be a good idea. Apart from squirting out the sides it could also build up a lot of pressure underneath the tray and cause it to bulge out in the centre. You would also get air voids and therefore a discontinuity in support when stood upon. And the foam cells would break down with use.

Kev


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## gaspode

Hi Geoff
As one who has replaced a cracked shower tray on a similar van I would strongly advise against trying to inject foam.

There is virtually no gap between tray and floor, most of it being taken up by sikaflex. The bit that might benefit from filling is the gap around the sides (to stop flexing) but I reckon it would be very risky injecting foam without risking an increase in the stress on the very thin tray material.

When I renewed mine I simply set the new tray onto a thick layer of silicone (instead of sikaflex) to allow the base to flex a little as the tray sides (and van body) flex, it seemed to work OK.

Removing the old tray was a nightmare, took several hours hard graft with a scraper and chisel to remove the remnants of the old tray and adhesive. Fitting the new one however was a doddle.


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## nicholsong

Hi

How are things? 

As somebody who has looked underneath the tray and knows what is there I will take your advice.

There is no problem at the moment - no sign of crazing so maybe it is best to leave well alone.

I have also been contemplating a 'duckboard' but maybe not one to be used while showering but to be placed dry over the wet shower tray.

I was reluctant to put in anything with bearers into the flimsy shower tray(unsupported) where the psi could be higher than the human foot. 

Now you have advised against the foam support for the tray I shall have to re-think that idea too. Maybe carrying the load onto the lip of the shower tray but that is only on 3 sides. 

Just thinking aloud now Ken. I will have a more serious look at this later and maybe PM you.

Thanks for your advice.

Cheers for now 

Geoff


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## gaspode

nicholsong said:


> There is no problem at the moment - no sign of crazing so maybe it is best to leave well alone.


I think that's the best idea Geoff, if it ain't broke - don't fix it.

Ours went when the van was less than three years old, it suddenly developed a long crack along the bottom corner of the tray at the bend where the sides meet the floor. I haven't heard of one crazing.

I attributed the problem to the base part being rigidly glued to the floor whilst the sides were free to flex with the van body, thus setting up a stress point along the line of the base to side curve. We had the van for four years after the repair without any further problems.

Best wishes to both of you for Xmas.


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## Bubblehead

Hi

I don't have the same van as yours so don't have this issue, however prevention is better than cure!

I trick used when hanging large flat screen TV's on plasterboard walls is to inject foam into the void behind the plasterboard to form a large solid area which effectively sticks to two sides together (or to a solid wall if dot and dab / over board).

I would inject foam under and around the tray to fill the void and support the tray if access can be gained.

If you buy a commercial grade gun and foam:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Professional+Foam+Gun/p93227

and the foam cleaner it is easy. The gun nozzle can be extended with a thin plastic tube allowing access to difficult places. The foam exerts very little pressure on the surrounding area so shouldn't cause a problem. Do not put too much in as it does what it says on the tin - expands. If you do get a lot coming out leave it to dry and then remove it.

I have used the same technique at home when we moved in prior to fitting the new bathroom as water was pouring down the side of the tray as it flexed to much (cheap tray). It stopped the tray flexing allowing silicon to stop the leaks, simples

Andy


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## nicholsong

Bubblehead said:


> Hi
> 
> I don't have the same van as yours so don't have this issue, however prevention is better than cure!
> 
> I trick used when hanging large flat screen TV's on plasterboard walls is to inject foam into the void behind the plasterboard to form a large solid area which effectively sticks to two sides together (or to a solid wall if dot and dab / over board).
> 
> I would inject foam under and around the tray to fill the void and support the tray if access can be gained.
> 
> If you buy a commercial grade gun and foam:
> 
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Professional+Foam+Gun/p93227
> 
> and the foam cleaner it is easy. The gun nozzle can be extended with a thin plastic tube allowing access to difficult places. The foam exerts very little pressure on the surrounding area so shouldn't cause a problem. Do not put too much in as it does what it says on the tin - expands. If you do get a lot coming out leave it to dry and then remove it.
> 
> I have used the same technique at home when we moved in prior to fitting the new bathroom as water was pouring down the side of the tray as it flexed to much (cheap tray). It stopped the tray flexing allowing silicon to stop the leaks, simples
> 
> Andy


Andy thanks

But have you read Gaspode's advice iin his 10.05pm post last evening?

Geoff


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## Bubblehead

nicholsong said:


> Bubblehead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I don't have the same van as yours so don't have this issue, however prevention is better than cure!
> 
> I trick used when hanging large flat screen TV's on plasterboard walls is to inject foam into the void behind the plasterboard to form a large solid area which effectively sticks to two sides together (or to a solid wall if dot and dab / over board).
> 
> I would inject foam under and around the tray to fill the void and support the tray if access can be gained.
> 
> If you buy a commercial grade gun and foam:
> 
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Professional+Foam+Gun/p93227
> 
> and the foam cleaner it is easy. The gun nozzle can be extended with a thin plastic tube allowing access to difficult places. The foam exerts very little pressure on the surrounding area so shouldn't cause a problem. Do not put too much in as it does what it says on the tin - expands. If you do get a lot coming out leave it to dry and then remove it.
> 
> I have used the same technique at home when we moved in prior to fitting the new bathroom as water was pouring down the side of the tray as it flexed to much (cheap tray). It stopped the tray flexing allowing silicon to stop the leaks, simples
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> Andy thanks
> 
> But have you read Gaspode's advice iin his 10.05pm post last evening?
> 
> Geoff
Click to expand...

Yes I read his post and he cautions against it but does say it would help support the edges. I would do this if I had the problems with the tray as prevention is better than cure (and a lot less expensive). That choice however is yours.

Andy


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## davesport

After peter Hambilton replaced the shower tray in my van I had a chat about this subject with him before I left. Apparently putting expanding foam under the tray is a popular but misguided "fix" It leads to a lot of the problems highlighted above. The most common one being the foam pushing the shower tray up by a considerably margin. The tray's bedded on non setting sealer. I wouldn't use the foam. I did consider this before getting mine replaced.

A possible alternative would be to have the existing tray coated with something like Speedliner. I looked at some trays treated with this at the NEC. The results looked very good & I'd describe it as bulletproof in comparison to the original tray.

D.


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## nicholsong

davesport said:


> After peter Hambilton replaced the shower tray in my van I had a chat about this subject with him before I left. Apparently putting expanding foam under the tray is a popular but misguided "fix" It leads to a lot of the problems highlighted above. The most common one being the foam pushing the shower tray up by a considerably margin. The tray's bedded on non setting sealer. I wouldn't use the foam. I did consider this before getting mine replaced.
> 
> A possible alternative would be to have the existing tray coated with something like Speedliner. I looked at some trays treated with this at the NEC. The results looked very good & I'd describe it as bulletproof in comparison to the original tray.
> 
> D.


Dave

I have looked at 'Speedliner'. I am not sure which product you were suggesting, but their products seem to be mostly protective coatings designed to resist abrasion.

I am not sure that they will give extra strength to the shower tray.

Do you have more info on this aspect, please.

Geoff


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## davesport

Hello again.

The product I was talking about can be seen here http://markcaravanmedic.co.uk/services/speedcoat-shower-tray-repairs/

I'm not the advocating anyone's services and this was simply the first link I came across. I gave this product serious thought in my search for a repair prior to having my tray replaced. The problem I faced was tht my tray was already cracked around one of the plug holes. Both radiating & partial circumferential cracks. IE, some of the cracking went under the drain fitting & could have continued leaking.

I also spoke with a company called "Branfibre" who do motorhome shower repairs as well as their core work of fixing boats. The gentleman I spoke to there used a slightly different process in that he srtengthened the whole tray with a thin layer of GRP mat prior to applying the Speedliner stuff.

I'd have booked in with him if I'd been repairing instead of replacing.

good luck in your quest, D.


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## nicholsong

davesport said:


> Hello again.
> 
> The product I was talking about can be seen here http://markcaravanmedic.co.uk/services/speedcoat-shower-tray-repairs/
> 
> I'm not the advocating anyone's services and this was simply the first link I came across. I gave this product serious thought in my search for a repair prior to having my tray replaced. The problem I faced was tht my tray was already cracked around one of the plug holes. Both radiating & partial circumferential cracks. IE, some of the cracking went under the drain fitting & could have continued leaking.
> 
> I also spoke with a company called "Branfibre" who do motorhome shower repairs as well as their core work of fixing boats. The gentleman I spoke to there used a slightly different process in that he srtengthened the whole tray with a thin layer of GRP mat prior to applying the Speedliner stuff.
> 
> I'd have booked in with him if I'd been repairing instead of replacing.
> 
> good luck in your quest, D.


Dave

After having advice to ditch my first idea of foam injection I started to think along the lines of fibreglass and gel coat.

I have looked at your suggestions; I am not convinced how the Speedliner alone, being just a coating, will provide much extra strength, but then I do not know the properties of 'polymers'.

My gut reaction would be to put a layer of fibreglass mat down before an epoxy gel coat or the Speedliner.

I will do more research and probably call both companies.

Geoff


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## palaceboy

Hi Geoff
This is to be my major fix for our van in 2014 . Our shower tray has been cracked since we bought the van in 2008 . Its not really been a big problem for us as we mainly use campsites or the few nights we have wilded its been strip washes using the sink . I was first going to look at the Speedliner route but i am concerned about the seal around the plug , so i will watch your progress with interest 
Keith


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## neilanddot

Like many, our tray is part of the bathroom flooring and have also worried about the shower tray cracking. I considered injecting foam but discounted the idea for the reasons already given. In the end we use a thick rubber matt with honeycombed holes to absorb and spread the foot pressure and feel that will reduce the risk of cracking.
Neil


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## davesport

> Dave
> 
> After having advice to ditch my first idea of foam injection I started to think along the lines of fibreglass and gel coat.
> 
> I have looked at your suggestions; I am not convinced how the Speedliner alone, being just a coating, will provide much extra strength, but then I do not know the properties of 'polymers'.
> 
> My gut reaction would be to put a layer of fibreglass mat down before an epoxy gel coat or the Speedliner.
> 
> I will do more research and probably call both companies.
> 
> Geoff


Hi Geoff. Do a bit of research first. The coating I looked at had been applied to sample pieces of tray that had been deliberately vandalised then sprayed with the Speedliner (or whatever it's name is). I wouldn't describe myself as deeply cycnical but I judge everything on it's merits, empirical testing, observable & repeatable results. That for me is what counts. I'll say no more about the coating & leave you to judge what you think when you see the stuff for yourself.

I'd have no hesitation in recommending it as a product. Who you get to apply the stuff is entirely another matter 8)

Good luck with this & I look forwards to seeing the results.

D.


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## nicholsong

neilanddot said:


> Like many, our tray is part of the bathroom flooring and have also worried about the shower tray cracking. I considered injecting foam but discounted the idea for the reasons already given. In the end we use a thick rubber matt with honeycombed holes to absorb and spread the foot pressure and feel that will reduce the risk of cracking.
> Neil


Neil

We have a similar mat, but I a bit unsure whether that is enough and, from what Gaspode (who is a lot more competent than I) said about the time to install a new tray, I fancy a bit of pre-empting to strength it.

Geoff


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