# Older models - which engine?



## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi All,

We are still looking at which MH is for us but I have a quick question in reducing the list down.

On the Base chassis should any of the older engines be avoided?

for instance the Fiat 2.0JTD? or should we pay the extra and go for a newer 2.8JTD

Are the newer engines worth paying the extra for on the Fiats? are any specifically better than others?

I used to hear rumours that the older fiats were un reliable in the car trade, is that really the case?

We are looking to spend approx £20 - 25k on a 4 - 6 berth van

as an example of what I am talking about:
http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorho...Autoroller-Pegaso-2.8-JTD-used-motorhome.aspx

or

http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/620_Ace-Milano--2.0-JTD-used-motorhome.aspx

thank you


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Fiat cars and Fiat commercials are a world apart.


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## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

OK cool, but is there a massive difference between the older 2.0 and newer 2.9 models in servicing and or fuel economy power etc?


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

The 2,5td,2.8td,and 2.8jtd are all Sofim built engines,so called because thats where they were built, are all IMO good strong serviceable units there are literally thousands of them in service and you dont hear people complaining about them.


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

To my mind either of those would be fine - wouldn't fancy the 2.0 in the larger motorhome, but should be fine in the Ace.

My only experience has been with a 2.8jtd and now an (older) 2.5tdi cat. Each has proved equally good with no problems at all on the engine side, but like anything mechanical they do repay regular looking after.

One point to check whatever you buy is that the timing belt and pulleys have been changed at the recommended interval. Evidence of regular oil and filter changes would also be a very good sign.

Good luck with the search.


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

TRANSLATE 20GRAND TO EURO'S AND GET A GOOD M/H FROM GERMANY ON www.mobile .de.


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Is it me or do they seem expensive? i would get your bargaining head on especially as its a buyers market, apparently!!!


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## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

silversurfa said:


> TRANSLATE 20GRAND TO EURO'S AND GET A GOOD M/H FROM GERMANY ON www.mobile.de


I do not speak a word of german so I cant really use that site!


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## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

Rislar said:


> Is it me or do they seem expensive? i would get your bargaining head on especially as its a buyers market, apparently!!!


I did think that, we went to the pickering show and it seems the price of MH's really depends on the dealer you are buying from! we saw a mint milano at the show for £20k with less miles. its crazy!

Is there much power difference between the older engines and the newer ones?


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Anything with a Merc egine - no cam belt to change - plus rear wheel drive
Richard


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## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

richardjames said:


> Anything with a Merc egine - no cam belt to change - plus rear wheel drive
> Richard


any suggestions?


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## olive (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a Rollerteam with the 2.8 jtd engine, slightly remapped to 160plus BHP. Very nice to drive .. even backwards ... and on average does about 28mph ... though with a head wind has come down to 23.

It has done 30,000 and so far so good.

Several independent car mechanics have said it is one of the best engines around ...


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Hi R6demon
I have had a CI Cipro 55 since 2005 and I would recommend it to anyone. I do not usually keep vehicles until MOT but I cannot find anything new to match what I have already got. The model comes in garage or standard fixed bed. Comes as standard with diesel heating gas water heating, fridge with separate freezer, full cooker, extractor hood, interior screen, 2 water tanks, some come with cab air etc. Have a look at http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/578_Ci-Cipro-Garage-2.7CDi-used-motorhome.aspx Not keen on brownhills but just a picture to look at!
Hope that helps
Richard


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

My old 2.0 JTD pushing 3400KG is really suprising for 84BHP.
I often think that it must be chipped....but I don't know?
This was my biggest concern when I first saw the figures, it won't beat my SAAB or Jaguar but it still suprises me. I've been in many motor sports in my life and I don't think that outright HP is even half the story in real life.


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## r6demon (Aug 18, 2008)

richardjames said:


> Hi R6demon
> I have had a CI Cipro 55 since 2005


Richard, thank you for the post however I do not think that a fixed rear bed would suit us as we would rather have the space for an extra lounge area or bigger bathroom, we also like the idea of the over cab bunk.

the first MH we looked at was a Ci riviera 171. Why are the the Ci vans so affordable? they seem to be quite a lot cheaper than other vans of similar age?


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

r6demon said:


> silversurfa said:
> 
> 
> > TRANSLATE 20GRAND TO EURO'S AND GET A GOOD M/H FROM GERMANY ON www.mobile.de
> ...


hi,

i'm with silversurfa on this one, type and paste info into this site here. will come up with some strange ideas and ones it cannot do but you get the gist. well worth looking at. bought both my 'vans from that site and i cannot speak any german. you will find that the germans speak excellent english though. there is an english button on the front page.

simon


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Hi R6demon
CI belongs to Triango group which has massive buying power so can aquire their bits cheaper
Richard


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

We wanted a 2.8 TD on a fiat engine as in our experience they are very reliable( in the trade) but we couldn,t find the one we wanted in our choice of MH. Instead we decided to go for the next one up and went for a 2.8JTD, so far we are pleased with it. The only difference is that the JTd is common rail instead of having an injection pump as on the Td both have the same proven engine Lin


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

We're on our third motorhome using the 2.8JTD and can honestly say it's the most reliable engine I've ever owned (and good to drive). Apart from my BMW of course!!!
Bob
PS. Can vouch for the savings on import. Saved about 10K


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Count the number of posts on Fiat engines and decide if you really need the hassle.
As said above choose MB (no cam belt to worry about, no judder, no leaks) and you dont have to speak German to use the www.mobile .de.
l


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Had a Swift on the 2.0JTD, Excellent engine, not a drag racer but solid and would cruise all day.
Ran 3 vans in convoy to Barcelona and back, 1.9Turbo, 2.0JTD and 2.8JTD, all Luton Fronts, total round trip of 2800 miles. Average fuel consumption on all of them was 23.75mpg for the whole trip. So there is no gain in fuel consumption with any of the engines.
Gerry


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## mickric (Jun 30, 2008)

*fiat engines*

Totally agree with Richard, the Merc engine is superb and really torquy just where you need it to be, and of course the chain driven cam is an added reason too.


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## malkay (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi R6demon

i have had a Roller Team Granduca 141 with 2.8jtd since 2003. The van has been excellent, overall fuel is about 24mpg. I had a black box fitted which made gear changing less frequent. We have only sold it to change to a fixed rear bed as the wife has a bad back. We would still have it otherwise. We think it is very good value as are most of the CI range.


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## 105874 (Jul 16, 2007)

We have had 4 vans with Fiat 2.8 engines:

Swift Sundance 590 2.8D - OK but lost of gear changing & quite noisey
Swift Royale Ensign 2.8TDi - Much nicer
Swift Kon Tiki 640 - 2.8TDi - Very nice with Alko chassis, but needed to change down early for bigger hills, and didn't like changing up gears om steep hills if you had a standing start
Swift Kon Tiki 645 - 2.8JTD - very nice, quieter than 2.8 TDi but still needed to change down on steep/long hilss. Better at going through the gears on hills. More relaxed drive.

We never had any mechanical problems with any of the above

we currently have the 3.0 Fiat - lovely - very quiet and no changing down on (most) hills.

With a 4-6 berth van you would really need to go for the bigger engine, especially if you go for a longer, heavier van. It will make the journeys more relaxed. if looking at vans of this size (I assume you want to carry 4 plus people) - be careful about user payloads. Our Kon Tiki 645 was nice but even with teh 3850Kg chassis only left something like 450Kg user payload (it soon adds up with bikes, toys, clothes, food, chairs...........). Our first Kon Tiki had a much more usable/realistic payload.

I have not had the old Fiat 2.3JTD but I read/hear that this is a good engine and should prove suitable for you.

Our current van has the 4000Kg chassis and a user payload of over 900Kg (after driver, water, fuel & gas).

Dibs


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