# Sevel after market cruise control and reversing cameras



## Pudsey_Bear

Nit decided which yet boxer, Relay or Ducato, but would like to know if any one has fitted a cruise control, and if it was a manufacturer add on or a after market one like Gold Cruise, I don't mind Gold Cruise as we had one on the Laika when we got it, and it worked fine, and it got well used, but not sure if I would be able to fit one myself or not.

Just exploring opinions really, we will get one, but don't know which.

Ditto for reversing cameras, we had the Camos one, which also worked fine except just before we got it the screen was showing streaky flashes etc for a while but it cleared up, maybe too much gusto when washing around the camera


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## stevian

I had a gold coast cruise control supplied andfitted at a show last year by conrad anderson well worth the money took about 2 hours in total
well recommended
i will be looking for a reversing camera soon particularly like the ones that you can leave on and treat like a rear view mirror!

steve


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## zack

Hi had both fitted by Phil at Rhino Installs both working well after about18 months. Good investment and good service


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## Pudsey_Bear

Has anyone tried a self install on either camera or cruise control, any pitfalls etc.


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## Bazbro

Hi Kev_n_Liz - a bit old this Thread but I've only just spotted it.

I've fitted quite a few cruise controls myself over the years, to several vehicle, including two motorhomes in the past. I initially used 'Zemco' (which looked identical to the 'Gold' cruises currently available) but more recently I've been using Waeco MS-50, their basic cruise control that has just finger pad to control. I'm ready to fit one to our 2004 2.8JTD Ducato (not got round to it yet - too cold and wet!) but a possible problem was pointed out to me by *Stanner* here...
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-129162-days0-orderasc-10.html

The kits come with a myriad of alternative fittings, and one of the options is to connect straight on to the accelerator pedal, thereby possibly obviating *Stanners* caution. But I will be looking at this aspect soon (when the weather warms up/dries out!)

The Waeco is currently available for just £99 from Conrad, here...
http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/prod...SHOP_AREA_17271&promotionareaSearchDetail=005
and is the cheapest I've seen anywhere. If you're happy to fit yourself, happy with a 'basic' unit and if your vehicle will accept the Waeco fittings (maybe check with Conrad first?) then these are good little units.

But [/B]Stanner's* caution is very valid so best check before you buy!

No special cautions really when fitting - it's all very straightforward if you're used to car modifications (tapping into the electrics and bolting brackets on, etc). My only recommendation (apart from the caution above), is to fit the finger pad as close to your forefinger, when it's in the usual position on the steering wheel, as is possible. This makes use of the cruise control so much safer and easier. Here is a multi-language manual that might ease your decision-making...
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/850000-874999/851329-an-01-ml-MS_50.pdf
It's difficult to read until you sort out how the page layout works!

Good luck (if you haven't already sorted it)!*


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## cliffhanger

Hi 

Bought a new Bursner Ixeo on Ducato and mine was a factory fitted cruise control integrated into the stick. I've had retrofitted cruise,but if one can afford it would go with factory fitted every time. 

It's worth noting though that the factory cruise from merc is far superior.

MAC 8)


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## Pudsey_Bear

I'm not sure if we can afford it now due to rip off van dealers, and having to sort problems the van didn't have when we tried it out.

But as it says to the left, 07 Relay so anything cheap but safe will do, it'll only get used on motorways to relax my aching leg/knee.

Can you get used ones?


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## Bazbro

I can't imagine that there would be used secondhand ones - there are so many different little components linked around the vehicle that trying to remove them all from a vehicle would be problematic, I guess? But there are bargains to be had - this one from Conrad, for instance. The Waeco MS-50 used to be £125-ish (when I bought it last year for our Honda HR-V!) but now it's under a ton. It does virtually everything more expensive units do, it's just less sophisticated.

As far as just using it on the motorway, not so! I use mine all the time on any road where the flow of traffic is at a regular pace or if there is little traffic. It's easy to 'Cancel' and 'Resume' at appropriate times and saves my poor old legs too! It helps to stop inadvertent speeding in built-up areas as well. As I say, I use it all the time.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I don't like doing multi language PDF manuals, I find them irritating.

So I've dug out the English section and re PDFd and attached it for the benifit of anyone following this thread.

Please check just in case I missed a page, and I'll amend it.

It's nearly 2mb so I'll have to split it into 2 files, but food beckons so I'll do it later.


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## Pudsey_Bear

The 1mb limit for PDFs is a real pain in the rear, as you can't shrink it like a photo.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I emailed Conrads yesterday and got the following reply, which was less than helpful.


You asked us the following question on 10/28/2012 at 5:53:46 PM:

Kev has the following concern:

I have a question about:
contact_productquestion

Item no.: 851329

Item description: Waeco MS 50 Magic Speed Cruise Control

Customer message:
Hi Could this be fitted to a 07 Citroen Relay, as i,s or would it need more parts to make it suitable
====================================================

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.

It is compatible for all cars that have the Clutch switch system

If i can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards,

Customer Contact Centre
Conrad Electronic UK Ltd.



How am I supposed to know if it has a clutch switch system and they think it's a car, hardly inspires confidence.


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## Bazbro

What an idle, disingenuous reply from Conrad!

What the writer means, I think, is that if your vehicle has a clutch pedal, it will accept the switch that disengages the Cruise when the pedal is pressed! Quite what that has to do with the suitability of this product for a diesel van I don't know! I've fitted these units to both manual and automatic vehicles - the presence or otherwise of a clutch is immaterial. His reply to your specific question is, quite frankly, nonsense.

Maybe pursue him further with a fuller description of your vehicle? At any rate, his reassurance means that if, for any reason, the MS-50 *doesn't* fit, they will be obliged to take it back.

The difficulty that *Stanner* envisaged with this Cruise Control on more modern vehicles was making the throttle connection with the newer, 'fly by wire' systems. However, if you look at File 1 (of the Instructions you kindly copied) then Illustration E, you will see how to attach the throttle cable directly to the pedal thereby avoiding any problematic under-the-bonnet connections.


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## Pudsey_Bear

A mate of mine contacted them a while back and his reply was just a as bad, seems like they don't want to sell the cheaper end, so why stock it.

I might ring them later and see if I can get the company brain cell.

I like the way they say "If i can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards,

Customer Contact Centre" but give no name to contact, very sloppy.

BTW if you contact them you get a £5 voucher, most useful bit so far :roll: :roll:


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## Bazbro

Excellent! So the MS-50 is now down to £94!! Well done!

And good luck getting any sense out of 'Customer don't Care'...


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## Pudsey_Bear

Right :!: I rang Conrads on Tuesday, I spoke to Chris, who said He wasn't sure which vehicles it would suit, and was a bit annoyed by the email response, said he'd look into it and get back to me.

Well I didn't hold my breath, and he got back to me this afternoon but couldn't offer any light on the subject said all he could advise was get one and have a look at it and if you don't think it'll do, send it back withing 14 days in an unused and saleable condition and they'd do a refund - P&P


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## Bazbro

Well... I don't know what to say! The very least Conrad could do would be to 'phone Waeco for a definitive reply. I'm disappointed because I've always found Conrad to be a good company.

As far as the suitability of the MS-50 for your vehicle, I'm 99.999% certain that it will be fine. If your vehicle has a "fly by wire" throttle, the perfect solution is a more expensive model of cruise control which uses a solid-state device to send an electronic signal of the throttle position. However, the MS-50 will still work - all you do is connect the cable to the pedal rather than a non-existant throttle cable, as in the illustration E in the fitting instructions. Simples!


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## Stanner

As I said IF you can find somewhere to fit the actuator servo so that cable will reach the pedal and the servo can connect to the vacuum pump.

I gave up............ :wink:


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## Pudsey_Bear

I'd have a go but not too sure of my abilities to fit something which might not be 100% right.


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## Techno100

I paid adroit services in Lincolnshire to fit the AP900 cruise over 2 yrs ago now. Best upgrade I made
Under an hour probably still circa £420 fitted


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## Pudsey_Bear

Just checking to see if anyone had gone down the MS-50 route and had anything to report, X250 type only please as other vans are not relevant to my van.


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## ConradA

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Nit decided which yet boxer, Relay or Ducato, but would like to know if any one has fitted a cruise control, and if it was a manufacturer add on or a after market one like Gold Cruise, I don't mind Gold Cruise as we had one on the Laika when we got it, and it worked fine, and it got well used, but not sure if I would be able to fit one myself or not.
> 
> Just exploring opinions really, we will get one, but don't know which.
> 
> Ditto for reversing cameras, we had the Camos one, which also worked fine except just before we got it the screen was showing streaky flashes etc for a while but it cleared up, maybe too much gusto when washing around the camera


Hi Kev_n_Liz

As you may know we have installed cruise control for many years. We sell the MS50 but have found that it will not physically fit onto the pedal of the X250. We install the fully electronic Gold Cruise GC90 with any of the stalk options (except for PSA stalk): http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/cruisecontrols/cruisecontrols-home.htm

We can supply them as a self fit option and actually they are an easier fit than the MS50. No fiddling about with pedal brackets or magnets. There is a difference in cost but we are doing show offers at the Spring NEC show next week if you want to get a great deal. Our stand number is 3090.

We will also be offering deals on reversing cameras, we sell the Waeco range. If you are hoping for cheap and cheerful, you could look at the RV170 http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/reversingcameras/RV170.htm. If you're after something with more camera inputs or a twin cam we can help with that too.

Hope this helps

Naomi


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## Pudsey_Bear

ConradA said:


> Hi Kev_n_Liz
> 
> As you may know we have installed cruise control for many years. We sell the MS50 but have found that it will not physically fit onto the pedal of the X250. We install the fully electronic Gold Cruise GC90 with any of the stalk options (except for PSA stalk): http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/cruisecontrols/cruisecontrols-home.htm
> 
> We can supply them as a self fit option and actually they are an easier fit than the MS50. No fiddling about with pedal brackets or magnets. There is a difference in cost but we are doing show offers at the Spring NEC show next week if you want to get a great deal. Our stand number is 3090.
> 
> We will also be offering deals on reversing cameras, we sell the Waeco range. If you are hoping for cheap and cheerful, you could look at the RV170 http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/reversingcameras/RV170.htm. If you're after something with more camera inputs or a twin cam we can help with that too.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Naomi


Thanks Naomi, It's purely a cost issue I'm afraid hence the MS50 query, It's a bit annoying that a simple issue like not fitting a pedal ruins my plans. So it's looking like I'll just have to pull over every now and then to stretch my leg unless a shop soiled one lands in my lap, but I won't hold my breath on that one.


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## ConradA

Hi Kev

If cost is the main issue then we used to sell somethig called an Eagle Economic. Its basically a throttle lock device. I think Dynad in Holland still sell them, this might be an option. We stopped selling them before the X250 came out so can't be 100% sure that we could make it work. It might be worth contacting them to see if they can put you right?

Cheers

Naomi


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## urbanracer

Here are some old posts about that unit and I recently saw it on ebay.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-53402-eagle-economic-cruise-control.html


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## Pudsey_Bear

Thanks Naomi and Urbanracer, I'll look into that when I get home


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## Bazbro

Thanks for some good information, Naomi.
But I'm puzzled as to why you say the cheaper MS50 cannot be made to physically attach to the throttle pedal of the X250. A short attached bracket (on the top or side of the pedal??) would surely accommodate the simple cable of the MS50 if it's not possible to actually drill through the pedal itself?
I'm puzzled, having fitted half a dozen of these excellent, inexpensive, reliable units over the years (from when they used to be Zemco!).


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## Pudsey_Bear

Bazbro said:


> Thanks for some good information, Naomi.
> But I'm puzzled as to why you say the cheaper MS50 cannot be made to physically attach to the throttle pedal of the X250. A short attached bracket (on the top or side of the pedal??) would surely accommodate the simple cable of the MS50 if it's not possible to actually drill through the pedal itself?
> I'm puzzled, having fitted half a dozen of these excellent, inexpensive, reliable units over the years (from when they used to be Zemco!).


I wondered that myself, but didn't want to show my ignorance, but it's OK if you do it though :wink: :wink:

I did think it wasn't so much that it couldn't be fastened, but that it would be pointless as it's a fly by wire system, but my CC knowledge could be summed up easily, NONE.

Hopefully you know a way around it Bazbro, having a tad more experience.

Another issue is mine isn't a Boxer or Ducato, but a Relay and there appears to be next to nothing made to fit the 2.2 Transit engined version.

As mentioned when I rang them the issue was a clutch switch, not the go pedal.

www.dynad.com appears to be down for maintenance, so is dynad.nl so a dead end for the moment Naomi, possibly gone for good as that's how some firms leave their web sites.


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## Bazbro

There are about three ways to connect an aftermarket cruise control -
electronically via the wiring loom on fly-by-wire systems (the best way if your vehicle is so fitted); 
mechanically by clamping to the throttle system (rod/wire/lever, etc);
or simply by firmly fixing the Bowden cable outer (to the bukhead?) while the inner cable is 'attached' to the accelerator pedal - often just a hole drilled through the very top of the organ-type pedal with the Bowden inner passed through and then clamped or just looped onto a clamp for a suspended-type pedal.

It's this last method that puzzles me with the X250, because I don't know what type of pedal is used. Whatever the pedal, I can't see why a simple Bowden inner can't be attached to it (the outer cable being attached nearby). This would mean that the simple, cheap (100 quid-ish) but otherwise excellent MS50 Cruise Control can be used.

I'll try to spot a X250 to look at the pedal, which I guess operates a potentiometer-type device, and I'll see if a small bracket could be fitted to the pedal to take the Bowden inner cable. 
If it can, then _Voila_!


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## Pudsey_Bear

Bazbro said:


> There are about three ways to connect an aftermarket cruise control -
> electronically via the wiring loom on fly-by-wire systems (the best way if your vehicle is so fitted);
> mechanically by clamping to the throttle system (rod/wire/lever, etc);
> or simply by firmly fixing the Bowden cable outer (to the bukhead?) while the inner cable is 'attached' to the accelerator pedal - often just a hole drilled through the very top of the organ-type pedal with the Bowden inner passed through and then clamped or just looped onto a clamp for a suspended-type pedal.
> 
> It's this last method that puzzles me with the X250, because I don't know what type of pedal is used. Whatever the pedal, I can't see why a simple Bowden inner can't be attached to it (the outer cable being attached nearby). This would mean that the simple, cheap (100 quid-ish) but otherwise excellent MS50 Cruise Control can be used.
> 
> I'll try to spot a X250 to look at the pedal, which I guess operates a potentiometer-type device, and I'll see if a small bracket could be fitted to the pedal to take the Bowden inner cable.
> If it can, then _Voila_!


I'll try to remember to take a picture of my pedal later just in case it is different to the Boxer and Ducato ones.

Then if alls well ,I'll get one and wait for you to come up and fit it as I don't have a clue as to what you just said


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## Pudsey_Bear

Kev_n_Liz said:


> www.dynad.com appears to be down for maintenance, so is dynad.nl so a dead end for the moment Naomi, possibly gone for good as that's how some firms leave their web sites.


Good news and bad news (for me anyway) I got an email back from Dynad minutes ago.

*Goodmorning Kev,

We still have the Eagle cruise control but it don't fit on the modern vehicle with a electronic accelerator.

With kind regards

Met vriendelijke groet,

Bart van Dijkhuizen
Dynad Import-Export BV
[email protected]
0226-722101*

So at least they're still going, but no product for me.

But an excellent heads up from Naomi @ Conrad Anderson, and I'm sure some will be able to make use of it and if you want one this is possibly the cheapest you'll find £20 on Amazon hope it's useful to someone   

EDIT

*I just noticed that the Amazon seller is Conrad Electric :?: :?: *


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## Pudsey_Bear

Seeing as there doesn't appear to be anyone selling them here I asked Dynad how much to get them direct from the company, reply below

*Kev,

The Eagle cruise control cost including transport too the UK € 35,=.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Bart van Dijkhuizen
Dynad Import-Export BV
[email protected]
0226-722101*

So if you want one you now at least have the choice.


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## ConradA

Hello chaps

Sorry for my silence, I've been out of the office for the last couple of days.

I've had a chat with Andy, one of our installers. He said the reason we don't install the MS50 or AP300 on the X250 is because the install would have taken days and therefore not economical for a paying customer when having a GC90 would be a 2 hour job. There is apparently a bracket that is right in the way of the pedal arrangement. The install is definitely a project or a labour of love for someone who knows what they are doing and with LOTS of time. We still couldn't guarantee that it would be as smooth to operate as the professional range.

Andy reckons it could possibly be done with some very clever bracket work and several days at your disposal. Be prepared to lose most of the skin off your knuckles!

He says you will have the same issues with the Eagle as you would with the MS50 or AP300. He wouldn't feel happy about fitting an Eagle though as it is very basic. Whether you want to is up to you.

Just as a little bit of interesting information; Dynad bought the Eagle economic and the company name from my Great Uncle Jaap Menist (now deceased). We sold our last Eagle in June 2009 and decided not to get any more, Dynad have the last remaining stock that we are aware of.

We do sell the MS50 but can't compete on price with Conrad UK, they are selling it for about what we buy them for. We do offer excellent technical support however or do a full installation service at a fixed rate on cruise control. 

I'll leave it with you guys, let me know if you have any further questions.

Cheers

Naomi


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## Pudsey_Bear

Thanks Naomi, I'm sure we're all glad that you took the time to post on this thread, and with a history lesson too   

So the MS50 isn't dead after all then, at least for some.


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## Bazbro

Thanks for that very comprehensive reply, Naomi.

Post a pic of your accelerator pedal (different views if poss), Kev, and I'll try and suggest a way that you can make a MS50 work with it. But it may be that, even with unlimited time, it would still be too awkward a job to attempt.

Show us yer pedal...!!!


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## Pudsey_Bear

Bazbro said:


> Thanks for that very comprehensive reply, Naomi.
> 
> Post a pic of your accelerator pedal (different views if poss), Kev, and I'll try and suggest a way that you can make a MS50 work with it. But it may be that, even with unlimited time, it would still be too awkward a job to attempt.
> 
> Show us yer pedal...!!!


Righty ho, good job you reminded me Baz, I'd for gotten but 3 camera pictures attached, it's not too good that close, but they should do for now.

Edit

Hmm a bit grainy if you PM your email addy I'll whack over the proper photos.


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## Bazbro

My thoughts, Kev, regarding your X250 pedal, are...
1) Find a point on the pedal where there is just less than 38mm of movement (from idle to full throttle) and see if it's possible to permanently attach the Bowden cable INNER to the floor under that point without interfering with the pedal movement or your foot. If so, drill a small hole right through the pedal, attach the INNER cable to the floor while the OUTER Bowden cable operates the pedal. Alternatively, securely affix a bracket to the side of the pedal to then do the same job if that fits better.
OR...
2) Use a solid bracket to extend the pedal further up into the footwell (from the far, hinge, end of the pedal) and bring the cable in through the bulkhead behind this bracket. Attach as appropriate.

This is easier to understand if you look at Page 7 (right hand side), Section E(2) - one of the fixing suggestions shown in the MS50 installation Manual here...
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/850000-874999/851329-an-01-ml-MS_50.pdf

A Bowden cable can either operate the inner cable if the outer is rigidly attached, OR operate the outer if the inner is rigidly attached. This latter option is the feature that I would take advantage of in your situation, Kev.

As Naomi's installer has observed, it's a fiddly job but not as difficult as he maybe suggests - just not commercially profitable I guess because of the extra time making it fit. However, once a fitment has been sorted out, it's then easy-peasy to replicate that for other similar vehicles. Just not enough profit in the MS50 for ConradAnderson I think, and I don't blame them. They're in business to make money, not make life difficult! 

A final observation - could you connect a cable to the under-bonnet throttle mechanism somewhere? This has always been my preferred option where possible.

Have a go! Just wish I could help you - I love challenges like this.


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## ConradA

Good luck with it Kev

I'll be interested to hear how you get on.

Naomi


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## Pudsey_Bear

ConradA said:


> Good luck with it Kev
> 
> I'll be interested to hear how you get on.
> 
> Naomi


Thanks Naomi, One is winging it's way to me, while there is still some money left, But it'll have to wait until higher priority jobs are done I'm afraid, I need to move & I think taking the driver seat out might aid access, but I'll be posting any pictures I remember to take :roll: :roll:


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