# Propex Air Blow Heaters



## 94117 (May 1, 2005)

Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am wondering whether Propex is the only make of air blow gas heater I can get in the UK? 

Any amazing advice concerning these heaters? 

And where could I get one at a good price?

Any considered responces gratefully received!

Cheers,

Buckeroo :lol:


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## Yorky (May 10, 2005)

Hello Buckeroo
The two rivals to propex is truma and eberpascer.
Truma is the gas driven one and eberspacer is diesel driven, propex also do a diesel driven one.
As for getting a cheap one try the for sale page in the MMM they sometimes crop up there.
I've never had a propex but truma and eberspacer are very reliable.
Regards Eddie


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

hi buckeroo

did you see the post about ray (detourer) taking his 4 year old propex heater back to propex because it had a pinhole in one of the fins :?: 

they gave him a new one 8O 

bit of a contrast to my 6 yr old eberspacher. just cost £340 to fix  

nuf said


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## 93652 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Nic
Propex are excellent, I will email you some info
Mike


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

You can use the deisel heaters when driving, but not the gas heaters.

Thought I had seen the Eberspacher for sale at about £400 somewhere


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

You can use diesel heaters and Gas heaters (propex type) when driving, never been able to fathom where this myth comes from.

George


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

'Mornin Smifee and Buckeroo

Yes Smifee.........re my trip to Propex (and to see yourself of course). Unpacked and refitted the new water heater with no problem. Being an updated model caused no hassle at all. Unpacked the air heater and parts were missing........our fault as we were rushing while there if you remember. But, got onto them via Email and bits arrived here in Spain 3 days later. Now fitted and running perfect...........

When a company responds to a problem in the way Propex have what more can you ask...........Well impressed!

Incidently, I have had Eberspacher cab/water and cab heaters in the past. Really good......while they work; and both mine did for quite a while. BUT when they failed and needed service........Wowwwww. Service cost was more than a new Propex.........

PS. warm and sunny here!


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## Malc (May 9, 2005)

Hi all,
Don't forget Webasto, used extensively in the truck bus and coach industry. Especially effective when incorporated in the coolant system for efficient starts in cold and frosty conditions and pre heating saloons/cabs.
Malc


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Quite right George. Just looked and propex manual states that their gas fueled unit CAN be used while vehicle is in motion.

PamnPete........I saw, and bought, an Eberspacher unit of Ebay last year for £450. One supplier seems to be on there quite a lot with these. Unit was OK (for a while) but "number/ID plate" inicated it was quite an old unit.


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## 94117 (May 1, 2005)

*Cheers Muchly!*

Many thanks for the help. I think Propex will be the one for us. Hopfully we wont need it too soon though! Off to the south of Spain as soon as we finish the van up. Ray - good to hear the sun is shining on you. Any tips for new Full Timers in Spain - Man, Woman and Boy?

Buckeroo


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Mornin Buckeroo

You may still need the heater. Days are quite mild to warm here at the mo, but we have had the odd very cold night. Last post cursed the weather and today we have rain! But much needed.........

Always pleased to help or/and see MHF's down here. PM me........


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## 91264 (May 1, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi
> 
> You can use diesel heaters and Gas heaters (propex type) when driving, never been able to fathom where this myth comes from.
> 
> George


While most gas heaters have some form of sealed unit to stop the flame from being extinguished the common sense rule states that you should not use gas supplies while the vehicle is in motion.

Reasons for not driving with your gas supply on. 
_Q: Can I drive with refrigerator running on LP gas?
A: Although it will run on LP gas while driving, it is not recommended for safety reasons. LP gas should always be shut off at the tank during vehicle travel. 
http://www.roadtrek.com/faqs.asp?frompage=&category=4

Motorhomes use liquefied petroleum gas - butane or propane. Both gases turn to liquid under pressure but on release from the cylinder, change back to a gas. LPG cylinders should never be stored on their sides because the liquefied gas will then be directly against the valve. If a leak occurs the gas immediately expands to around 200 times its volume with the ensuing risk of an explosion.

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/a-z/page2.html_


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

None of the reasons ever stated for not running make any sense

Note your first link even in the country that loves litigation its only reccomended by people.

The second is factually incorrect, the ensuing risk is of ignition and a sheet of flame, not of explosion, also even for ignition requires an exact percentage mix with air.

LPG is very safe and OK to use on move, If they ever ban it being used while mobile LPG converted vehicles are suddenly no good.

Its safe and legal to use while mobile.


George


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## 91264 (May 1, 2005)

Personally I think your philosophy on what is safe or what isn't is blinkered by the fact that because it hasn't happened to you so it won't happen. Your views on gas attacks and this subject come to mind. Would you like to see and hear about the damage caused by the gas? It isn't pretty and relates to the leak that could happen if the pipe splits etc. It only needs a spark or naked flame. Sod the legalities, it isn't safe if you are in an accident.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Happy

Sorry not going to get into any kind of slanging match, I have only sput forard the facts, laws and Physics. It may be your personal view (it may even be shared by others) but thats never going to alter the reality.

George


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Repeat....

Propex manual clearly states that their warm air heater is SAFE to use "while vehicle is in motion". Hell of a statement if not correct!

I have not read all of the additional features in detail but have looked at the unit and controller. Might it not be the case that should the flame fail gas is cut off?


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Happy

Trying to write the above a little better.

The law here and in USA is not against it and in no other country as far as I am aware.

No LPG Body state that LPG cannot be used in a Mobile situation.

Physics say's the explosion won't happen as per the Practical motorhome link, Also check out LPG websites they may explain the reasons to your satisfaction.

If you believe it is unsafe or something you would not entertain doing thats fair enough, even posting that clearly as "your opinion" and I will not deride your opinion.


Gas attacks are to far off topic to be discussed here, but if you have any new information it would be gratefully recieved in the correct thread.


George


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## 91264 (May 1, 2005)

Hi George, not a slanging match but in the December 2004 issue of Motor Caravan magazine this issue was raised by John Wickersham. 

It is illegal to enter a petrol station with an exposed flame present on any appliance. 

My gas heater states it can be used while on the move. But I am also told to switch off at the cylinder before setting off.

You pays your money and you make your choice but I'd rather get out of an accident alive if I'm in one.

John mentions in his article about warning notices placed on new vehicles since September 2004, has anyone seen these and know what they say?

(edit) LPG does explode and can cause a lot of damage.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Happy 

What John Wickersham says is neither here nor there, you are not even Quoting him???

Can you please quote the Legislation that makes it illegal?

Quotes "My gas heater states it can be used while on the move" 

and then the following quote was that you have been told to switch the gas off, does this conflict of advice not interest you ? When you look at the facts etc it backs what I say.

If you are in an accident you would rather get out alive ??? did I ever suggest that you were suicidal? as a statement of fact I think we would all agree with it, but it doesnt support your opinion in any way.

Happy you last statement "LPG does explode" is unlikely in the extreme rapid ignition is not an explosion.

George


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## 91264 (May 1, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Quote snipped slightly.
> 
> _Can you please quote the Legislation that makes it illegal?_The Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002
> 
> ...


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Happy

Sorry neither of them say that you cannot use gas appliances ?

With regard to the Canistors, spot the big difference LPG in cannistors can explode free the gas as mentioned in the PM article and it will ignite BIG BIG difference.

Like petrol on ground does not explode it ignites and burns, likewise free gas will ignite and burn.

Take flour for instance this can be made into a very effective explosive, try and ignite this in free atmos. we could do with an explosives exert who could maybe explian this better than I !

George


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## 91264 (May 1, 2005)

Gas heaters work from exposed flames. I do believe that you are acting dim on purpose. Do not bother to reply again.


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## 88941 (May 10, 2005)

Hi All

I am not an explosives expert so can not give any expert advice, all i can do is pass on my own personal experience,

For a number of years i worked on the commissioning and installation of Large Gas fuelled power generation systems. I have seen "rapid ignition" of gas first hand (i was in an engine container when rapid igniton of gas occurred and i was very lucky indeed to get out alive) and its effects are indeed very similar to an explosion.

Whilst it may not be illegal to use a heater whilst im motion or a refrigerator for that matter, HSE say it is okay to use a gas fridge whilst in motion, provided it has a flame failure detector fitted, but if an option to power it from 12v is available then this is preferable.

why if you can power your fridge from 12v would you feel the need to have it running on gas.

why would you want to use a heater such as a trumax or propex whilst in motion ??

I wouldnt use gas (which was fuelling a naked flame) whilst in motion, but thats my personal choice the law says you can if you want to.... if your unsure ... experience rapid ignition of a gas in a confined area for yourself then let me know what you would do....

Keith n Debs


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Keith

I am not suggesting anyone should or must use gas on the move, just trying to dispel the myths that pop up.

The reason people want to use heaters while in motion is the age old problem of cab heaters not being up to warming whole motorhome.

The confined space is the thing with explosions confined to Cylinder and heated it will go off like a bomb.

I have experienced the whoosh and yes its not a great feeling, but it is not an Explosion, The blast is missing, I am finding it very hard to describe the difference properly.

Happy,

Your posted links do not refer to the Appliances, none of which are classed as Naked flames. 

An exhaust would pose more of a danger on a forecourt, do you push your car to the pump and then away? Have you seen the flames and sprks that exit some exhausts?

George


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## 88941 (May 10, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Keith
> 
> I have experienced the whoosh and yes its not a great feeling, but it is not an Explosion, The blast is missing, I am finding it very hard to describe the difference properly.
> 
> George


Hi George

I don't think i said it was an explosion, i belive i said it is very similar, from my experiences perhaps the reason you are finding the difference hard to describe is because the difference is very hard to distinguish. until i had it explained to me properly i truly thought i had been involved in an explosion... however if it had been an explosion i understand now i would not be sitting here typing this... still explosion or rapid ignition it sure scares the crap out you when it punches a hole in the side of an iso shipping container, blows the doors of the ends and knocks you over backwards. if rapid ignition can do that to such a substantial piece of steel .... what on earth would it do to the body of a Motorhome...
better in my opinion to be a little chilly in the back of the van...

but thats all it is my opinion and perhaps because of my experiences i am a little over cautious.

Keith n Debs


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Keith

I know you didnt say you were involved in an explosion, sounds like yours was not far off being the full monty though !! I was trying (badly as usual) to explain the difference. If the doors on the container had been shut and pretty well sealed the containment would have made the whole thing much worse. 

George


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## 88941 (May 10, 2005)

Hi George 

No worries... 

yes not far off the full monty and not something i would want to experience again... Container doors where shut they have to be for engine to run properly but thats way off topic so wont go in to that now

regards

Keith


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

Nobody has come up with the insurance perspective on this and similar matters. Does anybody know whether the terms and conditions of their insurance mention this area or are they silent? I must admit I have not checked mine which is a specific Irish one but I exercise (over) caution with gas as I have no technical expertise. I WILL check to make sure I comply with all conditions in case I need to claim one day.

Just a thought.

Gill


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## Yorky (May 10, 2005)

Hello All
All the gas units mentioned will work OK while running as a lot of us will have found out when we forgot to turn them off when getting mobile.
However, the gas flame of most if not all domestic units is open to the atmosphere, this of course is not illegal when on the highway, but it immediately becomes illegal the moment you pull onto the forecourt of a petrol filling station. Even the most conscientious of us may forget to stop and turn it off before entering, therefore if you can do without it while mobile they are best turned off.
Regards Eddie


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## Yorky (May 10, 2005)

Hello All
Forgot to add to my last post the formal description for the ignition of a liquified petroleum gas cloud is a BLEVE. 
Boiling, Liquid, Expanding, Vapour, Explosion.
Therefore the word explosion is used in this context.
Regards Eddie.


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