# Heating in Vans on Layup



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Further to recent threads, what possible advantage is gained in giving a permanent heating supply to vans when drained down and laid up for winter. I can understand putting the heating on 24 hrs before 'take off' whilst filling and testing water supplies but ..............???????????

tony


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Tony, it works for me and has done for the last 9 years.
I have never had a damp van, I don't get condensation and the upholstery on every van I have owned was / is like new with no odours, no black dots etc  
She is also adequately ventilated!

I treat her like a little baby as she is my pride and joy  
We always leave inside, our clothing, bedding and food etc

Works for me, everybody must do what they are happy with. 

By the way, our van is never laid up, she just goes a few weeks without use.
I normally use an oil heater


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Fine, Name one dealer in the Uk who keeps their vans heated, ready for sale.

I am obviousy referring to van that are 'laid up' for winter, ie. for periods exceeding a month.

tony


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Tony, you must do what you are happy with, and as I said, our van is always, pretty much ready to go, except for a few extras and water.
Regarding dealer. I doubt any van is their pride and joy :lol:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> Tony, it works for me and has done for the last 9 years.
> I have never had a damp van, I don't get condensation and the upholstery on every van I have owned was / is like new with no odours, no black dots etc


Equally I can say that no heating at all has worked for us for over 40 years with several caravans and motorhomes. We leave everything in: upholstery, bedclothes, duvets, food, clothes and some boots and shoes and we've never had a suspicion of damp, mould or odour. We've also quite possibly saved a fortune on heating costs and the bother of checking every few days that all is well.

You know that story of the man who throws bits of torn up paper from the train to keep the elephants away.....? !

G


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I've said that I leave the truma on a low setting on electric but this is really to move the air around. If you stepped in there on an average winters day you wouldn't realise it was on, only on a very cold day would you feel a touch less chilly.

For a £ or two a week it does seem to keep it drier. We leave clothes and bedding in ready to go as well.

Kev


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## jedi (Nov 22, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> You know that story of the man who throws bits of torn up paper from the train to keep the elephants away.....? !G


No. Tell me more. I'm intrigued :lol:

Did sometimes put heating on very low when below freezing but don't bother now. No problems and spend the money saved on extra days away. 

Also thought about all those vans that spend the winter at dealers. Don't think they keep them warm. Having said that, I understand people who do have low level heating in their vans because, yes, they are our pride and joys.

Anyway, Grizzly, back to the elephant story ......

Jed


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air, so the same is true for warm upholstery and soft furnishings.

Mould also thrives best in warm, moist conditions.

Like Grizzly, we have never heated our caravans and motorhomes and have had no problems at all.

Having been working in my toasty warm shed this afternoon with the wood burner going, I know that tomorrow morning all the large metal objects in there will be running with condensation.

Does any of this help?

Dave


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Brian always kept a heater in ours and l did the same in CB last 2 years but this year l am trying the "no heater" to save a few pennies, have to admit l am a bit on edge. We shall see how it goes :?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

jedi said:


> Anyway, Grizzly, back to the elephant story ......
> 
> Jed


I think it's a Conan Doyle story but would love to find the origin- and the details do vary a bit.

The scene is a railway carriage, somewhere in the Home Counties, way back in the 19th C. A man is tearing up pages of newspapers and throwing the small pieces out of the window as fast as he can. He is asked why and replies that it is to keep the elephants away- and very effective it is too as there are no elephants to be seen.

Of course, we know that there are no elephants that follow trains in the Home Counties so, yes,it will appear to be very effective.

For elephants read damp, for scraps of newspaper read heating.

G


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Dealers vans may not suffer from damp as they will usually have their doors open to be viewed or be under cover.
I do use a heater with the concern that although I have done my best to remove all water, anything left is a potential problem.
My heater is set just above a frost stat setting with all cupboards and interior doors left open.

Alan


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

rosalan said:


> Dealers vans may not suffer from damp as they will usually have their doors open to be viewed or be under cover.
> I do use a heater with the concern that although I have done my best to remove all water, anything left is a potential problem.
> My heater is set just above a frost stat setting with all cupboards and interior doors left open.
> 
> Alan


Exactly, the same reasons as me


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Doors unlocked, yes, open , no. Under cover, rarely :wink: 

tony


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Now, it's 1600 hours, getting cold, about zero degree  
Should I go outside and put the oil heater on :?: now let me think :roll: 
should I, shouldn't I :?: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

It's your money, your choice. :wink: 

tony


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

As an aside, do you put a heater in your cold car overnight to keep it warm. :lol: 

tony


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> Now, it's 1600 hours, getting cold, about zero degree
> Should I go outside and put the oil heater on :?: now let me think :roll:
> should I, shouldn't I :?: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So why don't you give not-heating-it a trial for a week ? Then, if all seems to be well, another week and so on ? Even if we're all wrong and heating is vital then a week is not going to make a life-threatening change.

If your van has been well-ventilated today- ie you've not been in it with doors and windows closed- then it will be fine.

G


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I can't be bothered to blow out the water pipes, so there could be water residue, even maybe a little in the pump, . Neither of these has been an issue with me leaving an oil heater on low.
But if I don't put heating on, it could be a problem when I next refill


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

GEMMY said:


> Fine, Name one dealer in the Uk who keeps their vans heated, ready for sale.
> 
> I am obviousy referring to van that are 'laid up' for winter, ie. for periods exceeding a month.
> 
> tony


How many people have bought from a dealer only to discover the van's got damp or mould or strange smells!


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

My two penn'orth... I always put a dehumidifier in my laid-up m/h. The dampness is what makes some m/hs have that "certain odour" - once dampness/mould spores gets into the furnishings and upholstery you can't get rid of the smell (at least not without an enormous amount of effort). Better to stop it in the first place.

If using a (cheap to run) dehumidifier, on a low setting, then a tiny amount of heat occasionally when it's very cold (I have a frost-stat heater), will enable the dehumidifier to extract moisture in the air a bit better. A tiny through-flow of air is good but it could bring with it moisture from the outside.

I'm just trying out a new, small 12v dehumidifier and early results are encouraging. Each day I go out and look there's about an inch of water in the little tank. Now that's water that would otherwise be in the fabric of the vehicle, encouraging the presence of mould.

With dehumidifier/minimal heat, the m/h will always be nice and fresh inside, particularly if bedding and clothes are kept in there. Without any dehumidifying/heating, it's a matter of luck (bad luck?) as to the presence of dampness and to what degree on the "smellometer". And the chance of frozen pipes too.

Like *Grath* and others, I don't bother faffing with all that draining down, etc. (there are inboard tanks on our m/h). Plus, it's full of clothing, food and bedding, ready for an "instant away". So keeping it aired and above freezing is important to us for a variety of reasons.


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Never heated...never dehumidified.....never a problem....fully fitted ready to go.....but that's only for the last 50 years....who knows what will happen in the next 50 8O :lol:


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## blondel (Jun 12, 2005)

Might be a bit of a dim question - Why do you leave all the cupboard doors open?
My main concern has been the damage of any water freezing and causing a problem. The only problem we've had in the past was the shower as I had not left the shower tap open.
Come to think of it in the first few vans I don't think we even drained the water over winter!


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Bazbro, with your dehumidifier, do you allow any ventilation for the van?

tony


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

blondel said:


> Might be a bit of a dim question - Why do you leave all the cupboard doors open?
> My main concern has been the damage of any water freezing and causing a problem. The only problem we've had in the past was the shower as I had not left the shower tap open.
> Come to think of it in the first few vans I don't think we even drained the water over winter!


The cupboard doors are left open to stop damp or condensation inside the cupboards.


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## blondel (Jun 12, 2005)

OK! Never seems to have been a problem for us before. I tend to stuff spare toilet rolls everywhere to stop rattles and they have been fine. 
I know that if I need to use the van for school pick up of granddaughters or something I WOULD forget to shut them and everything would go flying!


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Bazbro said:


> I'm just trying out a new, small 12v dehumidifier and early results are encouraging. Each day I go out and look there's about an inch of water in the little tank. Now that's water that would otherwise be in the fabric of the vehicle, encouraging the presence of mould.


Are you sure that it's not water that's being drawn into the van from outside by the dehumidifier?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Obviously those who leave the heating on low never suffer from damp or moldy smells, it's equally obvious that those who just make sure the vans are well ventilated don't suffer from damp or moldy smells.

I don't think it makes much difference which method you go for, what is far more important is that the van is clean and dry, with no food particles or spilled milk, if you leave the van in a good clean dry condition there should not be a problem, moisture is the problem not temperature, temperature only becomes a problem when there is moisture, even a fingerprint can go moldy, so cleanliness is the key.

I wash and dry all the bedding and cushions etc, thoroughly, make sure the fridge is spotless and left open, wipe down anything with anti bacterial spray, including the cab dash, steering wheel, gear lever etc anything which has been handled, leave the heating vents open in the cab and the bathroom skylight open a crack also the heki & you'll get some through flow ventilation.

A friend swears by a computer fan over one of his drop out vents, and has never had any damp or other problems, it's powered by the solar panel.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

That's why I asked if there is ventilation.

tony


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

When returning from a long winter trip, as we are now, I think it is important to have a good cleanup and a few days of wide open ventilation when the weather is dry and cool. Living in the van in winter puts a fair bit of moisture into the carpets, cushions, bedding etc and I find doing this gives a fresher van over the following months.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Bazbro said:


> Like *Grath* and others, I don't bother faffing with all that draining down, etc. (there are inboard tanks on our m/h). Plus, it's full of clothing, food and bedding, ready for an "instant away". So keeping it aired and above freezing is important to us for a variety of reasons.


We open the drain tap at the bottom of the fresh water tank, leave it for a day or two to make sure it's empty and then shut it to stop spiders getting in ( it's outside, under the van). I do the same with the grey water tank but flush a bit of clean water through that after emptying. We also empty the water / space heater. I then leave the 2 sink taps open, the shower head on the floor and that's all. No blowing out, pumping out or whatever.

The only problem we have had is one year when a formica table top - cheap folding picnic table- froze and all the laminate cracked into thousands of tiny pieces. That was in a cupboard so it must have got quite cold. The TV, next to it, was fine. The olive oil solidifies too.

By the time we've driven even a short distance with the rear heating on, it's all back up to nice and cosy. If I've not remembered to unroll the duvets from their day-time covers then they can be pretty parky at bedtime.

G


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

Actually *GEMMY*, no I don't! 

The main, Hymer roof vent has a very small amount of obligatory ventilation (it's potentially *dangerous* to live/sleep in an unventilated m/h) and I rely on that. Plus my daily coming and going, and leaving the door open when I'm working in there takes care of ventilation needs. But it obviously does bring with it the possibility of "damp air" within the m/h. Hence the dehumidifier!

Yes, *peribro*, it could very well be moisture from the outside air that's being dehumidified. But it's water that's not being allowed to settle into the fabrics. It remains to be seen if this small dehumidifier extracts sufficient moisture - my other mains-operated ones were brilliant in this respect and even on the coldest days, the atmosphere within the m/h was "warm" - not actually "warm" really, just dry and without that clammy, cold, damp feeling.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Sorry mate, you're trying to dehumidify the planet. 

Any ventilation negates the use of a dehumidifier, ever wondered where your inch or so of water comes from.

tony


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

> The olive oil solidifies too.


 8O



> If I've not remembered to unroll the duvets from their day-time covers then they can be pretty parky at bedtime.


 8O 8O

You're not from Sparta, are you, *Grizzly*?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I usually, drain, the fresh tank, the waste tank, boiler, and leave the taps open in the middle position .
I do this either prior to driving home or en route with the idea, that by the time we reach home, most of the water residue in the pipes etc will have shaken out.
With whichever van we have owned, I always still find a little residue in the fresh water tank  I don't bother about it!
At home I then close the drain taps, replace the water tank bung, I also don't want spiders  :lol: 
I also close the boiler dump again and peg :lol: ready for the next refill!


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## Bazbro (May 9, 2005)

> Sorry mate, you're trying to dehumidify the planet.
> Any ventilation negates the use of a dehumidifier, ever wondered where your inch or so of water comes from.


Not so, Tony. You're right to an extent, but with no dehumidification, the moisture balance will be just as it is outside the m/h. With suitably powerful dehumidification, it will be lower. Yes, it will always be replaced via ventilation, but the ventilation must be minimal and the dehumidifier sufficiently powerful to get that "warm" feeling in the m/h.

That's why I'm reserving judgement on this little 12v jobby, to see whether it is powerful enough. It may not be.

By the way, I wouldn't recommend blocking up all ventilation in the m/h, but most seem to have too much ventilation with every rooflight ventilated plus vents in the wall in addition to base vehicle cab vents (if the heater is left on the "outside" setting).


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Used to use a oil filled rad for a few years when not using the van in winter but never bother with anything now, drain down water, boiler etc and leave, no problems at all touch wood.

Why waste money unnecessarily if its not needed.

Paul.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Bazbro said:


> You're not from Sparta, are you, *Grizzly*?


Not quite Barry ! This is when the van is not being used ! Doesn't seem to do the oil any harm as it gets solidified and warmed up again quite a lot over the winter. Some of it comes from Kalamata though and that's near Sparta....

G


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> At home I then close the drain taps, replace the water tank bung,


Oh how we laugh when we forget to do this and convert the first caravan site we stay at into a skating rink ! There is a certain warden at Kingsbury Water Park who won't forget - or forgive- us in a hurry.

G


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I still haven't put the heating on, but it's not too cold tonight


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## Auricula (Aug 13, 2012)

To heat or not to heat....?

Seems to me it's all about how you use your M/H.

1. If you winterise without the need to use your M/H for a few weeks (or months), or don't have hook up electric, make sure you fully drain all habitation water systems....fresh water, grey water and boiler specifically, and remove bedding etc. Once ALL water is out you should not need to provide heat to prevent serious problems.

2. If you might use the vehicle occasionally over the winter (try it...it's fun!) keep your M/H ready- to-go. So you may wish to keep the habitation area above freezing. But I'd still recommend emptying cold water, boiler and waste water when not on-the- move. These are easy and quick to refill when needed. And draining your boiler is usually essential to meet warranty conditions!

But there are, in my experience, some complications:

A. One year I thought I'd drained the habitation water system down so did not provide heating. I did everything I thought I needed to do to get all water out of the boiler and supply pipes to taps. Turned pump on, opened taps, thought all water was out. But the supply pipes from Truma boiler to wash basin and shower ( below toilet area floor) are horizontal and some water had remained in pipes. Result.....when it thawed, after minus 12C, one of the connections on the pipe to the shower had "popped". Flood and very difficult/expensive repair ensued......... Access to pipes below bathroom ( in an Autosleeper) is a design nightmare! So take great care to fully drain down.....I now open all water taps and drain Truma boiler a few miles before arriving home on my "last" trip to ensure the movement of the M/H pushes all water out.

B.If you don't provide heat, drain all water as described and remove all bedding and loose upholstery and store in your house. These items are prone to hold moisture and can create mould when temperatures rise.

C. Provide good ventilation when no heat is provided. Ventilation is still required with heating, but temper this with insulation.......

D. If you are heating the M/H......insulate to keep costs down. Use insulation particularly to cab windows as this is the area of maximum heat loss. Also insulate main roof lights and habitation windows.I use silver foil covered bubble wrap. It's the stuff B&Q sell in rolls as "back of radiator" insulation.Cheap and effective. No point in heating and allowing heat to escape as fast as you provide it. So keep heat in.

E. I use a greenhouse type electric fan heater on minimum setting. It works by coming on at about 5C and keeps the habitation area at around 7-9C. You need a mains (not 12V) supply so hook up essential for this. If you don't have hook up, don't heat.

Hope this is a help.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

A few well placed Tees with taps should let all the water out of the pipes at the expense of a few 12mm holes in the floor, but of course filled by the pipes, a cow of a job but piece of mind is priceless when you consider the cost of repairs.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Auricula said:


> No point in heating and allowing heat to escape as fast as you provide it. So keep heat in.


A lot of good and sensible advice, but this little piece is factually incorrect, I'm afraid.

If an object is at a constant temperature, then the energy arriving must be balanced by the energy departing.

You cannot "keep heat in", all you can do is reduce the rate at which it escapes (assuming the object is hotter than it's surroundings) so that the rate you have to supply it is minimal.

Ever the physics teacher - Gordon


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

We drain everything and leave taps open, clean everything, remove all bedding, prop up mattress of fixed bed and seat cushion of rear passenger seat.

We leave all cupboards and the fridge open to allow circulation of air. All blinds open, as winter sun helps to prevent mould (and no, it doesn't fade the cushions).

Then we leave two washing up bowls half full of salt on the floor. Every two weeks, we check to see if salt is damp. If it is, we tip it into a baking tray, dry it in the oven inside the house, then replace it.

Last winter was so cold in Wales that we often ended up using the damp salt on the icy path, replacing dry salt in the van.

We used no heating, and the van stayed perfectly dry, with no mould or nasty niffs. The salt is sitting in our porch at the moment, and will go back in when we've finished cleaning the van, having only returned home from a 3 month trip last Thursday.


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