# Over 70 years old - limited to 3.5 tonnes



## haggisbasher (May 1, 2005)

Him indoors is 70 next March and we know that he has to pass a medical to enable him to continue driving a car. However, with regard to mhome it would appear that he cannot drive a van more than 3.5 tonnes unless he passes a C1 driving test. We took our van to a weighbridge on way home - 3780 kg both axles and rear axle 2100 kg. So, looks like we have to find some way of losing 280 kg or I take the wheel - which I do not fancy at all. Have we understood this ruling correctly? C1 driving test course is very expensive with no guarantee of a pass! Perhaps it is time to downsize and for me to take the wheel from time to time 


p.s. we were in the van at time of weighing


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

when did him indoors pas his test he should have c1 already if he passed before 1997

joe


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Hopefully just a medical

And he can continue to drive on hie existing license 

Aldra


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## padraigpost (Dec 8, 2010)

If he has C1 on his licence now all he has to do is have a medical and if ok he will keep his C1 entitlement but will need medicals to renew every 3 years, he does NOT need to undertake a test. before sending licence off to DVLA take a photocopy so you can prove that he had C1 entitlement as it is not unknown for DVLA to make a mistake and say he never had it. C1 will enable him to drive vehicles up to 7500kg. he does not need a medical if he does not require C1 entitlement but this would only enable him to drive vehicles up to 3500kg.
Don


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Albert will need the medical next year, before March

Aldra


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

haggisbasher said:


> Him indoors is 70 next March and we know that he has to pass a medical to enable him to continue driving a car.


Where did you get that from? You do not have to take a medical or test to retain a car licence and you self certify medical and eye sight standards. You will also retain the BE larger trailer entitlement if you currently have it in addition to the B licence.
You can do it on line if you DO NOT want to retain the C1 entitlement. 
https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70

To retain the C1/D1 entitlement you will have to have a medical but not take a retest. You need to complete form D2 and the associated medical form D4.
Go to the link below and order pack D2. It explains it all.

https://www.dvla.gov.uk/dvla/onlineservices/order_forms.aspx?ext=dg


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Father in laws medical consisted of Dr asking him " Do you feel fit to drive"
answer "Yes"
Within two weeks FiL had bumped into two cars and run into his own gatepost.

I removed the car battery and the car stayed in the garage for 6 years.
Dave p


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## haggisbasher (May 1, 2005)

Sorry,I know it is a self certify when you reach 70 but didn't know how to word it duuh! The article we read is in July issue of MMM and I quote

"All the older drivers who got their licences before 1997 and so do not need to take the C1 exams, must renew their licence when they reach 70 years of age. The renewed licence, because of their age, comes as a category B licence. In effect,they are no longer licensed to drive a motorhome over 3.5 tonnes, even if they have one on their drive."

Will have a look at your links to DVLA but also have a website www.svtech.co.uk where I may get more info - all info on the article was obtained from them & DVLA. :roll:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

haggisbasher said:


> "All the older drivers who got their licences before 1997 and so do not need to take the C1 exams, must renew their licence when they reach 70 years of age. The renewed licence, because of their age, comes as a category B licence. In effect,they are no longer licensed to drive a motorhome over 3.5 tonnes, even if they have one on their drive."


A load of rubbish. They can continue to drive motorhome over 3.5t as long as they complete form D2 and pass the medical described on form D4.
Be careful as there is a lot of misinformation out there.

This is the information booklet with D4. Note that on page 3 it describes when you need it. The "• you are 70 and still need your C1 or D1 entitlement you will need to send in a D4 every 3 years" applies in your case.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_177094.pdf


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

Methinks MMM have made a "c*ck up".

Denise


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## haggisbasher (May 1, 2005)

Thanks so much 'rayc' for your links. I have ordered the pack from DVLA and will let hubby deal with this matter. What a relief it is to know that we don't have to trade our 'Ruby' in next March for a smaller model.  

Knew I would get the info I needed on MHF site - and hubby is thinking of subscribing to MMM :roll: 

Thank you all again for your helpful advice.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

haggisbasher said:


> Thanks so much 'rayc' for your links. I have ordered the pack from DVLA and will let hubby deal with this matter. What a relief it is to know that we don't have to trade our 'Ruby' in next March for a smaller model.
> 
> Knew I would get the info I needed on MHF site - and hubby is thinking of subscribing to MMM :roll:
> 
> Thank you all again for your helpful advice.


There is a lot of confusion due to requirements that came into effect on January 19th this year. There is confusion on different websites, including Government ones, and even DVLA help desk give confusing and conflicting information. The D2 pack explains what you have to do. Be careful to select the 'Renewal at 70' option because it is an application form which covers everything from initial licence application onwards. It can appear daunting and a little confusing but take your time and read the explanation notes.

The new rules are that : if the driver is 45 or older, they will need to renew their licence to drive lorries, minibuses or buses every 5 years. When they reach 65, they'll need to renew their licence every year. At EACH renewal they will have to complete medical D4. A new C1/D1 driver will need to complete the D4 at initial licence application even if under 45, they will then self certify up to 45.

Non of this applies to those with inherited C1 grandfather rights who on reaching 70 complete the medical every 3 years.


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## TerryL (Feb 19, 2009)

haggisbasher said:


> We took our van to a weighbridge on way home - 3780 kg both axles and rear axle 2100 kg.


Just a note - is your van's MAUW, i.e. the legal maximum 3500kg? If so you're going to have to reduce your weight to below that, in which case you don't need the C1, or get it uprated.

It's illegal to travel at a weight in excess of the plated weight, which you don't mention.

Terry


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

TerryL said:


> haggisbasher said:
> 
> 
> > We took our van to a weighbridge on way home - 3780 kg both axles and rear axle 2100 kg.
> ...


I was also going to mention this.. The OP profile says a Bessacar e495. Specs on this say its Gross (mam) is 4050kg..
Haggisbasher, You cannot just remove weight from the van to be under 3500kg... The Bessacar is rated above 3500kg and even if you drive it empty you need license entitlement..
Good luck, simple medical and all should be sorted, as mentioned take a photcopy of everything before you send it off to DVLA.


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

Forget what I said just realised my mistake. Too early in the morning!!!!

Alan


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*Driving licence over 70*

This is definitely wrong, 3M's have not got their facts right. My M/H is 3850kg so at 70 I had to reapply for my 'C' entitlements and take the medical which I did.
Just get the forms D2 and D4 and follow the instructions, can be a little confusing at times but the DVLA will help you out.

Graham


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## Graham101 (Jun 26, 2007)

THE MMM article in their July edition is WRONG. After reading it I double checked with the DVLA and they confirmed that you need the D4 medical report completed by a doctor and need to fill in the D2 application form to retain C1 on your licence when you reach 70. This is of course if you have the C1 category ( 4-7.5 ton) on your existing licence and this will be the case for most people who took their driving test pre 1997.
I wrote to MMM via their website to advise their article is incorrect and the response was somewhat feeble. However, I note that in their Summer edition out this week, that they have put in a copy of an email from another reader pointing out the error and MMM have added a footnote in effect confirming this, but without any apology for their misleading article. 
Hope this clarifies the position further.


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## Graham101 (Jun 26, 2007)

Further to my earlier note please see below the reply from the DVLA on this:

"I can confirm that if you wish to retain category C1 once you reach 70, you must be able to meet higher medical standards, you would therefore need to have a medical examination with a doctor.

I can further confirm that no driving course or test would be required.

To apply to retain category C1, you will need to complete a D2 application form and a D4 medical report. These forms are available from DVLA local offices, or goods vehicles testing stations, see gov.uk/motoring for a list of DVLA local offices.


The completed forms should be returned to the Agency, together with both parts of your photocard licence. No fee is required."


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

You are allowed to have the medical 4 months before the licence expiry date.

Do it as early as possible because the DVLA can be very slow, especially if there are any queries on the form, administrative or medical.

If no queries you will get it back in about 4 weeks.

Geoff


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

What exactly is involved in a D4 medical :?: 

tony


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> What exactly is involved in a D4 medical :?:
> 
> tony


This;


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GEMMY said:


> What exactly is involved in a D4 medical :?:
> 
> tony


Tony

Look at the form on-line - that shows you the questions that the doctor must answer..

In practice my GP just asked me 'Do you suffer from ....' and wrote down my answer.

The only thing I suffered from was 75 quid.

Some doctors charge higher. You can shop around, as any doctor in the EU can conduct the examination, but since the questions are sometimes posed in the positive and sometimes in the negative I suggest you stick with one who has a good command of English.

Geoff


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks Geoff, just wanted a bit of clarification on how onerous the test was likely to be.  Still 2+years away :wink: 

tony


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> > What exactly is involved in a D4 medical :?:
> ...


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Don't want to hijack the OP's thread but...
I have done the 70 year old medicle and kept my C1E etc grandfather bits (as long as I keeping taking the pills!)
Now I am about to apply for renewal again and from Rayc's link on here I read the guidelines and saw:
"If you are over the age of 45 and you have a short period licence, a D4 form will still only be required after every 5 year period from the age of 45 or the next renewal period after the 5 years (if it happens to run over e.g. having two 3 year licences issued). "
This seems to be saying that I don't need the D4 and medical this time but I will next time...
Is this right?
I thought I had to be checked over every three years!

Patrick


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Patrick_Phillips said:


> Don't want to hijack the OP's thread but...
> I have done the 70 year old medicle and kept my C1E etc grandfather bits (as long as I keeping taking the pills!)
> Now I am about to apply for renewal again and from Rayc's link on here I read the guidelines and saw:
> "If you are over the age of 45 and you have a short period licence, a D4 form will still only be required after every 5 year period from the age of 45 or the next renewal period after the 5 years (if it happens to run over e.g. having two 3 year licences issued). "
> ...


Patrick, I think you are saying you are coming up to 73 and therefore it is you second renewal after 70. You renew as you did last time.
The 45 age relates to new applicants and not those who got C1 by grandfather rights. With these new C1/D1 drivers they will have a D4 on initial application and licences issued for 5 years. When they renew they self certify medical until 45. Between 45-65 they are issued a licence for 5 years with a D4 at each renewal. Over 65 the licence is issued for 1 year with a D4 at each renewal.

The reference specifically to 'short period' licences applies to those issued with a 1, 2 or 3 year licence for medical reasons. It appears they can be renewed without a D4 medical presuming no deterioration in health. The D4 would still have to be taken every 5 years.

It is only my opinion but I believe that the new medical regime will lead to the demise of 3500kg plus motorhomes in the long run. Once those who inherited their C1 by grandfather right leave the system then I forsee that the majority of those who need the C1 only for leisure purposes will not bother. Of course who is to say that by the time that happens that there will not be another Directive on Driving Licences issued by the EU that makes car drivers take a periodic medical?
Ray


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## JohnWebb (May 1, 2005)

Two comments on all the above.
1) My wife is 70 soon and appled a while ago. Her application has gone to the medical panel which is currently taking 3 months. 
2) They keep changing the D4 such that our doctor does not keep them in stock. He says it is to stop him not thinking when he fills it in! Make sure you have a current one

I am due for my second renewal soon and am diabetic but last time it took 4 weeks and as my blood test etc. show an improvement I hope I can avoid the medical panel.


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*grandfather licence*

rayc i fully agree with you about the 3500+ going out , at the nec this year most manafactors only had upto 3.500 hobby and hymer no longer do the tandem axles with regard the test had mine last year sent the results of early has we going off fore three months so the dated my license from the date they got it it took around three months to get it wright ,also make sure you can read the bottom line on the eye test or you fail kenny


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

joedenise said:


> Methinks MMM have made a "c*ck up".
> 
> Denise


In the August edition of MMM Mark Brownrigg, the author of the original claim that a retest was required at 70, apologises. He has accepted that he was wrong and only the medical is required at 70 and at 3 yearly intervals thereafter.
He has commented about his claim that a driver at 70 would loose their BE entitlement and have B only. He has had it clarified for him by the staff of Caravan Magazine that BE is normally retained at 70.
He asks could those drivers who have reached 70 and renewed their licences to confirm they retained the BE entitlement by email to [email protected]

All in all not MMM's finest hour but as I have repeatedly said there is a lot of duff information out there including that on some Government websites and even within DVLA help desk operators.

It is also interesting to read that the European Caravan Federation [ECF] feels that more relaxation of the C1 'Leisure Vehicle only' new code 97 test is required from that proposed. (Currently the proposal is to relax the C1 test so that it does not include vocational issues such as tacho and driver hours etc. The licence will have code 97 alongside C1.)
It is all a lot of old nonsense which could be remedied by increasing the motorhome MGW for a car licence to 4250 or 4500kg. After all with the BE licence you can tow a trailer with a 3500kg MH up to its plated train weight.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: grandfather licence*



kenny said:


> ralso make sure you can read the bottom line on the eye test or you fail kenny


Kenny, I am no optician but I cannot see that reading the bottom line of the eye test chart is a requirement of the D4 medical with either corrected or uncorrected vision.
Not all Snellen charts are exactly the same as some have extra lines below the 20/20 line which are not strictly part of the chart [20/20 is in feet, now more normally refereed to as 6/6 metres].

Below is the D4 requirements, I do not see any requirement for 6/6 vision either corrected or uncorrected. Can you explain any more? 
Ray


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am on my second renewal of the C1 (or whatever it is now called). There is little to fear regarding the medical. As I used my own doctor, he already had my notes.
Basically, if you are fit to drive now, nothing should change.
I failed my eye test...... so contacted the DVLA and was told that I could no longer drive, as my eyesight was not satisfactory. I was passed to a medical Dept. who said they would send me a cover note until my eyes had bee re-tested.
Rather interestingly I had only had my eye test and new glasses a month or so earlier.
The optician began by checking my eyes without glasses..... I would have passed without my glasses he told me. He checked my glasses which turned out to be the wrong ones. They were a very old pair of reactalight glasses that were too dark to use in the dark surgery   
My full licence arrived soon afterwards.
If you fail your medical for the 7.5 tons you should not really be driving anyway.

Good luck!

Alan


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