# a-framing in morocco?



## seanoo

hi to all, just wondered does anyone know whether you could a -frame a car in morocco? thanks in advance.


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## G2EWS

Hi Seanoo,

I have no idea but I am sure Jim (scotjimland) will be along to tell you of his foray!

Regards

Chris


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## 101405

*a frame*

Iknow this, to get to morocco you must transit Spain! and Its not legal to tow a car . It must be on a Grua (car transporter) in fact a trailer must be registered and plated with its own papers and number. lots of M/Hs get away with it. Spanish drivers are not used to seeing vehicles being towed! so be aware. DO you need to tow a car? we have a fantastic bus service in Spain, its very cheap and all have Air con and mostly new.


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## Detourer

One thing is for sure......you will, as far as the law is concerned, have no problems with an "A" frame. I fact I would also say that you could sell it a dozen times over.

What _may_ present a problem, depending on where you go, is the practicality of towing with an "A" frame. Some of the roads on say the Dades Gorge, Tizzi no Test, Rich-Imishill etc have quite severe and tight bends, often at an upward and/or downward position [does that make sense?]. Even a motorhome with any sort of overhang will ground etc etc.....

Also entry to some campsites are not "A" frame friendly, Source Blue Meski for example...........

Also make sure that you get a good ferry price. Some agents will charge for Motorhome AND car.....others?? If you go and need tickets, that will class extra unit as a trailer and therefore cheaper, give us a call.

But don't be put off.....just go!

.


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## seanoo

thanks alot detourer for your advice, very helpful. i think ill be heading to morocco at the start of jan!! all the best seanoo


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## Scotjimland

Good luck.. 

We towed our trailer all over Morocco, see my picture albums and signature pic, .. only had to unhitch a few times.. go for it.. you'll have a great time, just take extra care as Ray advises.. :wink:


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## asprn

*Re: a frame*



silversurfa said:


> ...you must transit Spain! and Its not legal to tow a car....


...... unless of course you're from another EU country where it's legal to tow a car on an A-frame, in which case EU-wide legislation provides that all member states honour the road traffic legislation of the visitor......

<lights blue touchpaper and retreats to a safe distance, smirking....>


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## DJP

> unless of course you're from another EU country where it's legal to tow a car on an A-frame, in which case EU-wide legislation provides that all member states honour the road traffic legislation of the visitor......
> 
> <lights blue touchpaper and retreats to a safe distance, smirking....>


 :bazooka: *asprn*

GOT YOU :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not been to Morocco with A Frame, but most other countries in Europe without problem. Go for it and enjoy!
Dennis


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## olley

*Re: a frame*



asprn said:


> unless of course you're from another EU country where it's legal to tow a car on an A-frame, in which case EU-wide legislation provides that all member states honour the road traffic legislation of the visitor......
> 
> <lights blue touchpaper and retreats to a safe distance, smirking....>


Thats not quite true according to a poster on outandabout:

The 'temporary importation' rules are, I'm afraid, not quite as you and many others (including myself) have assumed them to be. The fact that a vehicle registered in, say, Spain, is road legal in that country does NOT make it legal to temporarily use it in the UK - or other EU countries. An obvious example is that, when 44 tonne MAM trucks were introduced in Europe, we stuck, for several years to a maximum gross weight of 38 tonnes and foreign vehicles had to comply with this maximum. In the same way, they must comply with our height, width and length limits, regardless of what the limits are in their own countries. The marking requirements for long vehicles still differ between countries and you must comply with the host country here too. There are other examples, but it is by no means clear that:

a) A-Frames are legal in the UK 
b) even if they are, that you can legally drive them elsewhere in Europe.

Olley


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## kijana

Oh Gawd, 'ere we go again. . .


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## asprn

*Re: a frame*



olley said:


> Thats not quite true according to a poster on outandabout ....
> There are other examples, but it is by no means clear that A-Frames are legal in the UK ...


Hi Olley, ever heard of the expression "hook line and sinker"?



Dougie.


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## olley

*Re: a frame*



asprn said:


> olley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not quite true according to a poster on outandabout ....
> There are other examples, but it is by no means clear that A-Frames are legal in the UK ...
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Olley, ever heard of the expression "hook line and sinker"?
> 
> 
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Olley


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## G2EWS

Hmm!

Without getting into BIG arguments I believe that without exception 'A' Frames are not legal in the UK or any part of Europe!

Whilst a lot of us use them, that does not, of course make them legal, only that it is one of those laws that the legal system (police) choose to ignore.

I recall someone actually putting the legal reference on the forum, but I do not have the time to search for it at the moment.

I am reasonably certain this is true, because I was going to get an 'A' frame for Libby and then discovered this information. I have since found someone who can make a small trailer for Libby at about £1,000, which is not much more than the very good 'A' frames I was looking at!

http://www.fabscountytrailers.com/11.html

Regards

Chris


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## asprn

G2EWS said:


> Without getting into BIG arguments I believe that without exception 'A' Frames are not legal in the UK or any part of Europe!


I am ............

............ outta here.

<click>

Dougie.


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## 111764

seanoo said:


> hi to all, just wondered does anyone know whether you could a -frame a car in morocco? thanks in advance.


Hi Seanoo no problem aframe towing in Morocco even the French motorhomers are towing now and the best place as mentioned is carlos behind Carrefour supermarket off junc 112 onthe way to Algeciras he doesnt charge more for your car and this past winter we paid 100 euro return for both but you will be charged for motorway toll for your car as well as your van in morocco but not in Spain, also no prolems in spain either with the police if they see it is properly converted as the car is as safe towed as tied on to a trailer.


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## pelicanpete

*Re: a frame*



silversurfa said:


> Iknow this, to get to morocco you must transit Spain! and Its not legal to tow a car . It must be on a Grua (car transporter) in fact a trailer must be registered and plated with its own papers and number. lots of M/Hs get away with it. Spanish drivers are not used to seeing vehicles being towed! so be aware. DO you need to tow a car? we have a fantastic bus service in Spain, its very cheap and all have Air con and mostly new.


This is a load of old tosh, regurgitated time and time again. Take no notice. There has not been one FACTUAL case as far as I can research, where a BRITISH REGISTERED vehicle towing an A-frame through Europe has got into trouble. I read lots of anecdotal tosh like this. Sorry, it makes my blood boil.

Please give me PROOF and EVIDENCE that a British M/Hr has been fined (where the fine stuck) or was arrested for towing an A-Frame and I will apologise. Until then....shut up!

Go forth and tow.


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## loddy

I am going to use a towed and bought a secondhand A frame, with it came a pile of interesting literature concerning the legalities,
From Norway stating the Vienna convention (OK if legal in UK)
Dismissal of fine from Spain.
Letter from an MP, When using a towing frame the towed car is converted to a trailer. It should not be viewed as a car when on tow, it carries the same reg as the towing vehicle and the lights are operated by the towing vehicle.

I for one shall use an A frame with a clear conscience

Loddy


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## pelicanpete

loddy said:


> I am going to use a towed and bought a secondhand A frame, with it came a pile of interesting literature concerning the legalities,
> From Norway stating the Vienna convention (OK if legal in UK)
> Dismissal of fine from Spain.
> Letter from an MP, When using a towing frame the towed car is converted to a trailer. It should not be viewed as a car when on tow, it carries the same reg as the towing vehicle and the lights are operated by the towing vehicle.
> 
> I for one shall use an A frame with a clear conscience
> 
> Loddy


Thank you, Loddy!
Some common sense - at last


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## 111764

G2EWS said:


> Hmm!
> 
> Without getting into BIG arguments I believe that without exception 'A' Frames are not legal in the UK or any part of Europe!
> 
> Whilst a lot of us use them, that does not, of course make them legal, only that it is one of those laws that the legal system (police) choose to ignore.
> 
> I recall someone actually putting the legal reference on the forum, but I do not have the time to search for it at the moment.
> 
> I am reasonably certain this is true, because I was going to get an 'A' frame for Libby and then discovered this information. I have since found someone who can make a small trailer for Libby at about £1,000, which is not much more than the very good 'A' frames I was looking at!
> 
> http://www.fabscountytrailers.com/11.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris


Hi can you tell us how safe can you load and secure your car on to your trailer and most trailers only have two wheels on the road where as on an a frame the car is more stable on all four wheels and not so top heavy


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## 111764

*Re: a frame*



pelicanpete said:


> silversurfa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iknow this, to get to morocco you must transit Spain! and Its not legal to tow a car . It must be on a Grua (car transporter) in fact a trailer must be registered and plated with its own papers and number. lots of M/Hs get away with it. Spanish drivers are not used to seeing vehicles being towed! so be aware. DO you need to tow a car? we have a fantastic bus service in Spain, its very cheap and all have Air con and mostly new.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a load of old tosh, regurgitated time and time again. Take no notice. There has not been one FACTUAL case as far as I can research, where a BRITISH REGISTERED vehicle towing an A-frame through Europe has got into trouble. I read lots of anecdotal tosh like this. Sorry, it makes my blood boil.
> 
> Please give me PROOF and EVIDENCE that a British M/Hr has been fined (where the fine stuck) or was arrested for towing an A-Frame and I will apologise. Until then....shut up!
> 
> Go forth and tow.
Click to expand...

Hi you are quite right in Girona there was a case 0n 22.11.96 there was a motor homer taken to court and the fine was dismissed


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## asprn

*Re: a frame*



pedrob1 said:


> in Girona there was a case 0n 22.11.96 there was a motor homer taken to court and the fine was dismissed


In Turkey in BC 1564, there was a case where a guy was done for overloading his boat with all sorts of animals during a flood, but Noah further action was taken.

Dougie.


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## johng1974




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## pelicanpete

I think the "A's" have it, then


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## 111764

*Re: a frame*



asprn said:


> pedrob1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> in Girona there was a case 0n 22.11.96 there was a motor homer taken to court and the fine was dismissed
> 
> 
> 
> In Turkey in BC 1564, there was a case where a guy was done for overloading his boat with all sorts of animals during a flood, but Noah further action was taken.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

Hi Dougie you dont like sensible conversation, but i have a copy of the court dismissal document which answers the comment in what way is your comment relevent to 2008 motorhome forum


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## asprn

*Re: a frame*



pedrob1 said:


> Hi Dougie you dont like sensible conversation


I do indeed enjoy it.



pedrob1 said:


> i have a copy of the court dismissal document which answers the comment


My understanding of a comment is that a comment is a comment (as opposed to a question, which requires an answer). I made neither.



pedrob1 said:


> in what way is your comment relevent to 2008 motorhome forum


Now that's a good one. Do you mean in the existentialist sense, or are you being specific?

Dougie.


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## zappy61

G2EWS said:


> Hmm!
> 
> Without getting into BIG arguments I believe that without exception 'A' Frames are not legal in the UK or any part of Europe!
> 
> Whilst a lot of us use them, that does not, of course make them legal, only that it is one of those laws that the legal system (police) choose to ignore.
> 
> I recall someone actually putting the legal reference on the forum, but I do not have the time to search for it at the moment.
> 
> I am reasonably certain this is true, because I was going to get an 'A' frame for Libby and then discovered this information. I have since found someone who can make a small trailer for Libby at about £1,000, which is not much more than the very good 'A' frames I was looking at!
> 
> http://www.fabscountytrailers.com/11.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris


........last one turn out the light.........


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## asprn

zappy61 said:


> ........last one turn out the light.........


*...........click........... *










(D'ya like me nails....?)


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## aultymer

That light switch does not appear to comply with the latest IEEE regulations.


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## zappy61

asprn said:


> zappy61 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........last one turn out the light.........
> 
> 
> 
> *...........click........... *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (D'ya like me nails....?)
Click to expand...

Can't see any, but I usually use no-nails.

Am I right in guessing it is a Spanish light switch (the wall paper is a dead giveaway) in which case under EU law................................................


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