# Uprate a Concorde Charisma 880l - How much could i gain?



## riverboat2001

Our new van has so many accessories and optional extras fitted, that we're going to be close to our weight limit of 5990KG.

It's on a Mercedes Sprinter base.
It's an Automatic and has airbrakes.

Just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of the possible uprating outcome on this particular set-up.
What, if any, increase in payload could i get.

The cost itself wouldn't be an issue, if it means staying safe and legal.

I'm aware of SVtech and have drafted an email to them.

I'm not technically minded and the form just confused me.

All my paperwork, including the certificate of conformity is in German, would this cause problems?

If it can be uprated (and this was an optional extra when the van was new in 2005) and it required modification, do SVtech do the work, or do they tell you what needs doing, and you have to find someone competent to do it?



I ask because i went to the council tip and weighed the van and had about 120kg left, but that was with waste/fresh/black waste tanks emptied, and half each of diesel and underslung calor-gas tank.
We had all our "stuff" on board, minus fridge food and clothes.


PS
I have a pre-1997 licence.


----------



## tonka

SV Tech will only advise and issue a weight plate..

Any works will have to be done elsewhere...

On my previous Autotrail, I had to have air suspenion fitted and then send them a copy of the recipt to prove work was done.


----------



## 91502

Hi

If your MH was available new with the option of an upgraded weight limit then you should be able to match that and maybe even go higher but that is unlikely.
SVtech will tell you what you need to do to up rate, you then need to get the work done and provide them with proof and they will issue the new paperwork and plate.
You are just paying them for their knowledge and research.
Vehicles rated at 3500kg can often be plated higher with no alterations as they have been down plated already but as you are way over this you may need work doing.
The current sprinter range seem to have a max MAM of 5000kg if based on a chassis cab so if as you state yours is already higher then it must have been modified so there is a chance it cannot go much higher.
SVtech will have the definitive answer.

James


----------



## peribro

> I'm aware of SVtech and have drafted an email to them.


I've used them twice without any problems and have been most pleased with their service. However you are far better off speaking to them rather than emailing them.


----------



## Crindle

Hi all........seems we have the same Sprinter chassis under our Charisma. Maximum permitted weight (GVM) uprated to 6400Kg from the original 5990Kg. A paper exercise authorised by SVtech once they have checked out the chassis identification number. A very comprehensive service IMO. They also provide a self adhesive plate the that covers the existing plate attached to the vehicle.
As an aside our Charisma weighs in when fully loaded for travel at the following: Front axle 2020Kg (2100Kg). Rear axle 3980Kg (4360Kg). Total 6020Kg (6400Kg) ie numbers in brackets show plated weights post upgrade. Finally, note you have the true auto. version; great vehicle to drive but you will need to be mindful of the towing limits imposed by this set up. Our vehicle was supplied with a towing hitch (unused) rated at 2500Kg however although the chassis/engine is okay with this the auto box is limited to 750Kg thus it is not possible to realize the full towing capability, and that's the only drawback to an otherwise superb motor home, you'll love it.....best of luck.....Crindle.


----------



## riverboat2001

Hi Crindle,

Many thanks for the info.

I'm so pleased with the van, it's perfect for our current needs.

When you say fully loaded, do you include any water in that?

Also I'm an ex-London bus driver, so i'm fine with driving it, but the finer points have passed me by!
Can you please explain what you meant about the "True Auto" ?

It appears you could use it as almost a semi-auto, by changing up manually, but I've not really had much time driving it though.

I do find the brakes lacking ,and have applied what i thought was the correct pedal pressure, only to find i need to stamp on them a bit at the last moment.

It reminds me a bit of the "DM" bus i used to drive years ago, everyone complained about the braking, it was very similar to the Concorde.

Or perhaps it's a "Feature" of air brakes!

Any info you van give would be gratefully received.

Cheers
Sharon


----------



## coppo

Hi

We had a motorhome on the Merc 616 true torque converter auto. This is opposed to the Mercedes sprintshift which was a semi automatic. The 616 was not made with the sprintshift though, just the full auto. I did hear you could change the gear by tapping the stick to one side but we never tried or needed to try this.

Fully loaded means with full water, everything you need to travel.

6400kg is the maximum you can uprate this too. 

Beautiful, bullet proof machine the merc 616 auto, great to drive, we sold because it was too big and want something smaller.

Good luck.

Paul.


----------



## riverboat2001

That's the box we have, were you can tap it to change gear.

How did you find the brakes on it?

We spoke to SVTech today, and so we are now beginning the process of getting ours uprated to 6400KG.

They said they have done 150+ Concordes.

The base Concorde has plenty of payload, but once all those extras are added it disappears!


They guy that had it before us must have been running it overloaded as he had a scooter in the boot.


We've got new electric bikes arriving tomorrow, and a week off in March....


----------



## Philrap

*Uprate Concorde*

SV tech very knowledgeable and good service. I am sure new self adhesive plate goes alongside existing not "covers existing plate"


----------



## Crindle

Hi again.......see Coppo's excellent posting re your true auto etc. queries. I find the brakes okay, not the sharpest but adequate, bearing in mind that a hydraulically operated disc brake system must be nearing its limitations at 6400 Kg. GVM. The hand brake is a mechanical/pneumatic device. Application by a powerful spring, released and held off by air from a compressor/air cylinder unit powered by the main engine, hence the audible hiss when applying the brake, sound of air being dumped and allowing the spring to apply the brake. Presume this is Mercedes fail safe system, engine fails, brake mechanically applied.
Finally, post chassis uprating always need to be aware of large garages aft of the rear wheels, in a word "overhang". Heavy objects like scooters etc. need checking out by putting the van on a weigh bridge fully loaded. I know that the Concorde is fully equipped with large under slung nylon ferry wheels at the tip of the rear but best keep them unused..........Crindle.


----------



## Crindle

The hand brake is a mechanical/pneumatic device. Application by a powerful spring, released and held off by air from a compressor/air cylinder unit powered by the main engine, hence the audible hiss when applying the brake, sound of air being dumped and allowing the spring to apply the brake. Presume this is Mercedes fail safe system, engine fails, brake mechanically applied.
Hi all.......see quote from my earlier posting with apologies. The Mercedes fail safe air operated hand brake system covers for leakage or loss of air, not engine failure. Air loss from the system results in automatic application of the hand brake. However one needs to be aware that in a non start situation the air cannot be replenished without engine power, probably just a couple of applications of the brake would use up all the sir available and the brake applied. In this situation with hand brake locked on could be a recovery nightmare if not possible to start the engine.........Crindle.


----------



## riverboat2001

Cheers for that.

I wasn't aware of the ferry wheels, this is our third van with a large overhang, and ferry's always made me nervous.

We're not taking a scooter, we've had the racks taken out.

We'll just be taking folding electric bikes so they can be tucked away nearer to the front end of the garage.

Does your van have a black waste tank?
(I've probably asked before, but can't remember)


----------



## Crindle

Hi........just need to keep those ferries greased and free to rotate and do their job, I've seen several Concorde's with flats on the nylon wheels suggesting they are locked up. I tend to have them and the spare wheel cradle functioned and greased annually when the van is elevated on the ramp for service/mot.
Yes, we have a 100L black waste tank with Tecma marine toilet/macerator, not a bad system IMO.........Crindle.


----------



## riverboat2001

Van is in storage at the mo, so can't check the ferry wheels, but they're now on my list of things to do!

We're new to the black waste malarkey, but reasonably happy with it so far.

However despite having a new sensor, our's still doesn't register empty when it is, and it seems to fill up quite quickly too.

Obviously with the recent weather we haven't been using site toilets at all (didn't fancy swimming to them).

Overall though, what a cracking van it is, we're well pleased.


----------



## Christine600

On my used one the nylon wheels both bent a little outwards like they had hit the ground quite hard. At a garage later I spoke to a mechanic which straightened them out for me and said he saw this on many Charismas. 

Where I live I have to take ferries a lot. So I got air rides in the back to avoid touching the ground. But one day with a particular high tide I still touched the ferry ramp. And this with the Air Ride at 7 (max).

So they are a little bent again.


----------



## Crindle

riverboat2001 said:


> However despite having a new sensor, our's still doesn't register empty when it is, and it seems to fill up quite quickly too.


Hi.......we have also replaced several sensors in the black and fresh water bulk tanks, provides some improvement but never an accurate read out. We have come to accept indication of levels that are there-about.
The Tecma marine toilet/macerator flush take's quite a bit of water, we have never altered ours but gather that the flushing water cycle can be adjusted. We have an additional fresh water tank so demand is okay, but doesn't alleviate a quicker filling of the black waste tank.......Crindle.


----------



## riverboat2001

Yes,

I'd heard of the flush being adjusted, but haven't found anyone who knows how to do it.

I'm going to try and find a more flexible hose to make things a bit easier.


----------



## Gazzer

riverboat2001 said:


> Yes,
> 
> I'd heard of the flush being adjusted, but haven't found anyone who knows how to do it.
> 
> I'm going to try and find a more flexible hose to make things a bit easier.


Southdowns can adjust the flush. They did mine. We can go over a week without emptying now.


----------



## riverboat2001

I bought mine from Southdowns and they said they didn't know how to do it.

I'll email them, they have been very good with us.

I'm going to give them a review after a few months use of the van.


----------



## riverboat2001

Just an update for anybody that finds this thread.

The van was uprated to 6400kg, with just a chat and a little bit of paperwork and a couple of calls to SVtech, think it cost us just over £300

The toilet black tank has had two new sensors, and a new wall panel, but they still don't work as they should. So I guess it's just a matter of monitoring the situation.


----------



## jiwawa

I don't know what kind of sensors you have - come to think of it, I don't know what kind of sensors I have either! - but I do know that after showing full for weeks now, regardless of how often it was emptied, the sensors are again showing an empty tank as empty. 

When I knew I'd a reasonably full waste tank I poured down around 10l of water that had a washing capsule in it. 

Then we drove on to our next stop, emptying as soon as we arrived so the gunge didn't have a chance to settle again. 

Hopefully that's it sorted for a while.


----------



## riverboat2001

Hi,
Where do you put the water and tablets in?
I assume you lift the access hatch and unscrew the top of the tank?

Cheers

PS
It's bloody frustrating that's for sure!


----------

