# Not impressed with my new swift # 2



## Trance (Mar 2, 2007)

Hi all, 

Just spent a good solid week in my 2 month old sundance 590 RL. I have built up a list of 16 faults that have come to light over my week on holiday in the outer hebs. In fairness some things are small and things do go wrong on new vans i appreciate that. Here goes, sorry for the length but i feel it must be said. 

1.) Oven and grill not working- No gas coming through/ not connected at rear?. Valve is open. 
2.) Cutlery drawer broke clean off when opening. 
3.) Shower tray leaks through to living space. Closer inspection reveals not sealed correctly. 
4.) Awning does not clear door when extended. 
5.) After getting rear bed/ main slat fixed (metal support added underneath front slat) screws on other slats now working loose. 
6.) Sealing strips between boards in toilet, behind shower mirror stripping off. 
7.) Heating does not turn off through control panel. Only the circulating fan switchs off. Heater continues to run on. 
8.) toilet door swings open turning every corner. Magnetic strip poor 
strength. 
9.) Sink worktop laminate cover is peeling away from the edges of the sink. Not sealed properly and water has worked its way in. 
10.) 2 off the front overcab bed slats are protruding out from the swede covering. Not sure if this is the way its supposed to be, but over time this will rip through the material. 
11.) Habitation entrance door has to be slammed to shut. 
12.) Seal strips above overcab bed peeling off. 
13.) Rear floor cupboard door collapsed off the hinges. 
14.) Window wipers do not come on when screen wash is applied. 
15.) Sink in kitchen has scratched very very easily even when i have used a basin. 
16.) All window seals have been joined at the bottom of the window and look crap to be honest. I hadn't really noticed this at first until the misses said it. Looks obvious now. Just a down right shoddy finish. 

Now i will be looking to use my van when away quite regularly, my concern obviously is with the quality of the build of the van, and will it last the test of time. Now i know the dealer will fix these problems and have it shipped back out to me, but will i be paying another visit in a few months with more problems?. The return trip to my dealer is around 100 miles, this is proving to be expensive mistakes for my pocket!. 
I do plan on writing a formal letter to swift to see what there opinion is on the matter but in the mean time, can anyone tell me what kind of legal rights i have in this situation, apart from fixing these problems. can i for expample return the van to the dealer get my money back and buy a van that i know will last, i.e an autotrail? I plan on getting some citzens advice but i would like to know what you guys think, as i know some of you have been going through the same situation's. 

Thanks in advance 
Gregg


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## 100004 (Jul 12, 2006)

Get onto Trading Standards. They're THE experts. Your first port of call, is the dealer you bought it from, as he's the one you have a 'contract' with, ie you paid him the money. I listed the procedures in the tread about Water Ingress with the Fiat X2/50. Don;t know how to show you it, so you'll have to hope the Mods will do it, or you'll have to do a search. H

Mod edit ( spykal) :wink: 
Click Here to go to Homerdogs post in the other thread <<


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi I'm sorry to here about your problems which I agree with you should not be happening.If you ring Lynsey at Swift from Wednesday onwards she can discuss the best way forward either going back to the Dealer or I am happy for it to come to Swift , we can turn it around quickly for you its up to you how you want us to handle it.I prefare it to come back to Swift so we can see first hand the problems.Tell Lynsey ,Peter told you to ring her. Regards Peter Smith.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Trance,

I'm really sorry to hear that you are having these problems, as are other Switft owners, it would appear.

I have to say that I am impressed, with the reply from Swiftgroup, (is it reeeeeally them though, or have I missed some news lately). 
If it is them, it's a pity that Russell didn't get the same response when he initially highlighted all his problems. No offence meant, Mr Peter Smith


Jock.


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## Trance (Mar 2, 2007)

Thank you peter for your response. It makes could business sense i would say to monitor these forums, as this is the best customer feedback any company could possibly receive. I am arranging a meeting with my dealer's manager for tomorrow and will disccuss the best way forward. 

Thank you 
Gregg


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

JockandRita said:


> Hi Trance,
> 
> I'm really sorry to hear that you are having these problems, as are other Switft owners, it would appear.
> 
> ...


 I agree ' Russell did me a favour by making me aware of the forum,getting customer feedback is great and will help me close the loop re quality,all that has been posted will be discussed by the Swift team on there return after the holidays.Peter.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Trance said:


> Thank you peter for your response. It makes could business sense i would say to monitor these forums, as this is the best customer feedback any company could possibly receive. I am arranging a meeting with my dealer's manager for tomorrow and will disccuss the best way forward.
> 
> Thank you
> Gregg


Ok I will leave upto you.Lynsey has your details and I have also sent them to the Production Director/Design Director and Quality manager for me to follow up with them on there return from holidays.I agree it is an excellent way to get customer feed back and it is up to us to react to it positivelyPeter.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

SwiftGroup said:


> I agree ' Russell did me a favour by making me aware of the forum,getting customer feedback is great and will help me close the loop re quality,all that has been posted will be discussed by the Swift team on there return after the holidays.Peter.


Hi Peter,

Although we are not Swift customers, I thankyou for replying to my comment, re other's problems.

If this is the route that the group is now taking, it has to be a major step forward. 
I have never heard/read so many bad comments, referring to one manufacturer. As a previous tugger, we heard of other's bad experiences concerning Swift caravans also.

I hope that you are able to sort out the problems with your team, and give customers what they expect, when shelling out tens of thousands of pounds.

I have to say that I do find the Swift products very appealing to the eye, in terms of design, livery and decals.

I wish you well in your efforts to increase customer confidence in your products.

Regards,

Jock.


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

well done Swift for getting on this forum and a few others i use. Maybe you will swing our opinion of the Swift group if you keep this up!!!

Its about time the MH/Caravan builders got online and in to the 21st century

Peter dont forget to swing by and join www.caravanfacts.com motorhome facts sister site dedicated to caravans, although we have no complaint on that site regarding swift it may be worth you joining and monitoring it.

Rob


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

roboughton said:


> well done Swift for getting on this forum and a few others i use. Maybe you will swing our opinion of the Swift group if you keep this up!!!
> 
> Its about time the MH/Caravan builders got online and in to the 21st century
> 
> ...


Thanks Rob,I will do.I notice your a Buccaneer customer ,Jim Harrison the founder of Buccaneer is an old friend of mine.Peter


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

JockandRita said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> > I agree ' Russell did me a favour by making me aware of the forum,getting customer feedback is great and will help me close the loop re quality,all that has been posted will be discussed by the Swift team on there return after the holidays.Peter.
> ...


Jock,thanks for your comments.Peter


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## 101600 (Oct 30, 2006)

SwiftGroup said:


> roboughton said:
> 
> 
> > well done Swift for getting on this forum and a few others i use. Maybe you will swing our opinion of the Swift group if you keep this up!!!
> ...


Yep i love the Buccaneer, i used to have a MH and it didnt suit the way we like to camp so we went back to Caravans, we used to have a Abbey County Dorset and loved it very much. Come and say hello on the other Forum.

Rob


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Swift Group*

Hi

Time for my two penneth! Rather than do a load of "quote" replies, I'll start from scratch.

Trance - sorry to read of your problems - my advice would be to accept Peter's offer to take the van to Swift for repair, assuming you are happy for repairs to be effected. Of course, your location, etc etc, amy influence your decision. Without being disrespectful to any dealer, whether it be a Swift dealer or otherwise, logic does suggest that the motorhome manufacturer are likely to know their product better than anyone. In the case of your van, an example being the magnetic strip you mention, if Swift actually see the defect, it may help their development team/technicians etc etc in looking at alteratives. I am no expert, but would guess that the manufacturer of any product can gain valuable feedback from customers - whether good or bad - so long as it is constructive. Swift did offer to take my van back for repair.

Peter - you are working too hard - it is Sunday today!

I did feel my issues were not being correctly harnessed, but as stated in a previous post, since Lynsey became involved, a lot of "positivity" has prevailed - so much so I am getting another Swift in about 33 days - (I'm not counting, Peter, honest!). No disrespect to anyone else on their Customer Services but I personally believe that "ownership" of a problem is a good thing - for example easier than having to explain yourself to "someone else" next time you phone or write etc.

In respect of having a motorhome manufacturer as a member of the forum - particularly one that is "publicly in the open" - using their company name - then I personally think it is excellent. I believe Swift have applied some pressure to Fiat re the windscreen/guttering issue and this can only be good for us - the customers after reading some of our posts. I wonder if any other manufacturers read MHF or any of the other forums?

Russell


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Peter,glad you are watching this forum and getting to the bottom of some members faults(hopefully)
As a self builder everything in my m/h was checked that it worked correctly after instillation,heater worked,pump, water heater,lights all doors and catches etc,even checked that shower drained away as it should.My point being that if the person who in putting these things in is responsible that they work correctly before moving on to another one it is easy for your team to put a finger on who installed it and get them to ratify what they have done wrong or ratify there position at your workplace.
I do not want to or even try to tell you how to run your business,(you are a more sucessfull than i could ever be)but at some stage you have to get to basics and make your workforce see that if something is not right rectify it instead of letting it go to the next man,or send it back to the previous man.I worked for a firm that did showrooms for a national company(20 odd yrs ago)in charge of upto 40 shopfitters and the above problem was a nightmare to get everyone doing this,and as soon as one job finished you were sometimes back to square one with a few people who let shoddy things past.The only good thing was that we could not go home until it was correct and checked by myself and the n/co bosses.
Are your vans leaving with faults or developing them at the Showroom?My mate (not a member)has just bought a Bessicar and he too has damage to a w/top and BATHROOM door catch not working,fridge door coming open etc.I think that the b/r door needs something stronger than the magnetic catch,(perhaps a bolt)or maybe 2?Are your vans quality inspected before leaving the factory?Anyway as you are reading this I am sure you will get to the bottom of it all, although it may not happen overnight :lol: :wink: It can only be good for your company!
terry


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## Trance (Mar 2, 2007)

Terry,

You are right on the money there. Its the basics that need to be addressed, as far as i can see with my own van. I mean simple things like the screws being fit for the purpose. i.e the right length for the job!. When my cupboard door fell off i noticed that there was 10 mm screws holding it in place, when you take away the thickness of the hinge it doesn'nt leave much beef to hold the thing in place. These vans are going up and down our roads which are full of holes, these things do take a fair amount of stress through vibration as well as useage. Judgeing by the way my lounge bed is slowly falling to bits swift have used the same screws!. The shower tray leaking, you can see the gaps in the sealant, i mean how many people has that past through who haven't either noticed it or bothered to fix the fault?. These things don't give me confidence in the van at all. Its a shame, as people keep saying on here, beacause these would be cracking vans if the quality was there. Fixing these faults doesn't change the way the van has been built at a basic level.

Gregg


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

maddie said:


> Hi Peter,glad you are watching this forum and getting to the bottom of some members faults(hopefully)
> As a self builder everything in my m/h was checked that it worked correctly after instillation,heater worked,pump, water heater,lights all doors and catches etc,even checked that shower drained away as it should.My point being that if the person who in putting these things in is responsible that they work correctly before moving on to another one it is easy for your team to put a finger on who installed it and get them to ratify what they have done wrong or ratify there position at your workplace.
> I do not want to or even try to tell you how to run your business,(you are a more sucessfull than i could ever be)but at some stage you have to get to basics and make your workforce see that if something is not right rectify it instead of letting it go to the next man,or send it back to the previous man.I worked for a firm that did showrooms for a national company(20 odd yrs ago)in charge of upto 40 shopfitters and the above problem was a nightmare to get everyone doing this,and as soon as one job finished you were sometimes back to square one with a few people who let shoddy things past.The only good thing was that we could not go home until it was correct and checked by myself and the n/co bosses.
> Are your vans leaving with faults or developing them at the Showroom?My mate (not a member)has just bought a Bessicar and he too has damage to a w/top and BATHROOM door catch not working,fridge door coming open etc.I think that the b/r door needs something stronger than the magnetic catch,(perhaps a bolt)or maybe 2?Are your vans quality inspected before leaving the factory?Anyway as you are reading this I am sure you will get to the bottom of it all, although it may not happen overnight :lol: :wink: It can only be good for your company!
> terry


Terry ,Iagree with everything you have said and when I get back you know what I will be doing?I do wonder sometimes what we pay our dealers to do because they are not picking these items up in PDI which is our way of getting feedback but the forum is going to be better for me as I get to know whats happening at the front end.Peter.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Trance said:


> Terry,
> 
> You are right on the money there. Its the basics that need to be addressed, as far as i can see with my own van. I mean simple things like the screws being fit for the purpose. i.e the right length for the job!. When my cupboard door fell off i noticed that there was 10 mm screws holding it in place, when you take away the thickness of the hinge it doesn'nt leave much beef to hold the thing in place. These vans are going up and down our roads which are full of holes, these things do take a fair amount of stress through vibration as well as useage. Judgeing by the way my lounge bed is slowly falling to bits swift have used the same screws!. The shower tray leaking, you can see the gaps in the sealant, i mean how many people has that past through who haven't either noticed it or bothered to fix the fault?. These things don't give me confidence in the van at all. Its a shame, as people keep saying on here, beacause these would be cracking vans if the quality was there. Fixing these faults doesn't change the way the van has been built at a basic level.
> 
> Gregg


 Gregg, I am really sorry for your problems I am happy to have your Sundance back to the Factory and I can go through your issues with the design team and correct your problems just let me know or telephone Lynsey.


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## beagle (Sep 25, 2005)

I'm not 100% about this - someone will correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure under trading standards rulesif something is not 'fit for purpose' you have the right to get it replaced or your money back BUT - big but - if you accept a REPAIR, then you LOSE your right to demand a replacement later on. 

If you think your van is likely to have undiscovered faults due to overall poor build quality (and poor design judging by some of the points you raise) I would think carefully about accepting a repair, because you could be making more than one long trip to the dealer if you go down the repair route.

If you think this poor quality is typical of the quality of the brand rather than one rogue van - insist on your money back and buy something different!

It surprises me how ready some people are to excuse faults like you describe, it seems to be something peculiar to motorhomes and it puzzles me. Even when reading the magazines I've read quite oftern of faults which "a trip back to the dealer would easily sort out" - even when it's things like leaks that could cause untold hidden damage. 

For the record, I had nothing wrong with my new van that I could find - except a Truma recall. After a year I need to stick some extra velcro on the seat backs where I've made and re-made the extra bed so many times (there are five of us). And a screw from the habitation door pocket came adrift. No trim falling off or bad seals etc. So it can be done!


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## 100004 (Jul 12, 2006)

Not too sure about not being able to reject/lose your rights to a replacement.I think if you go down the route of repair, it will just take longer to get satisfaction.( Mick Jagger eat your heart out :lol: )
As for excusing faults. NO WAY! I did in the 70's with BL and after two cases of crap product and dealers, I have always bought Foreign and never regretted it. Am I anti British? No, just wont waste my money. H


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## hippypair (May 1, 2005)

homerdog said:


> Not too sure about not being able to reject/lose your rights to a replacement.I think if you go down the route of repair, it will just take longer to get satisfaction.( Mick Jagger eat your heart out :lol: )
> As for excusing faults. NO WAY! I did in the 70's with BL and after two cases of crap product and dealers, I have always bought Foreign and never regretted it. Am I anti British? No, just wont waste my money. H


Is your van a Talisman? who makes them?


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi again Peter,perhaps you could enlighten us as to the process of leaving your factory to dealer who has to do a PDI check?Surely you must check it before leaving the factory? then the dealer does a secondary check?
I would love to see the end product just before leaving your factory just to see how many faults are visible!!!!
On building my own van everything was glued & screwed and i don't envisage anything falling off.It took 2 of us 12 weeks from start to finish,only 3 (15 days)of which were on the inside working 6 hours a day making everything apart from doors and soft furnishings,not pre assembled.
GOOD ON YER for taking notice of this site and acepting crictisisum/doing something about it,not many would listen & do anything,I expect your workforce will be suprised when you turn up on the factory floor after the hols :lol: (assuming you are office bound) Buy the way I don't think accepting a repair looses your right to rejection but it would be silly to give uo the van of your choise for a few screws .
terry


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## Trance (Mar 2, 2007)

Maddie,

I would just like to refer to your point about rejecting a van for a few screws. It is the thought process behind the build that i am concerned about. If you can't get the length of the screw right then what is the rest of the van like?. Its just a screw? or a bolt? or a seal?, these things hold the van together, these are fundamentals, the basis of quality. Get these wrong and your van won't last till the end of the year.

Gregg


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Gregg I agree entirly but the vans are I think 95/97% right it's just the little touches that let them down! Are they that much worse than many others? or just show up on here?it is a bit like Hymer,they are in my mind well srewed together but naff all in them for the cash (prepare for hymer owners rebucke :lol: 
terry )


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## 100004 (Jul 12, 2006)

Hi Hippypair! Autosleeper make the Talisman and mine is 17yrs old. For its age, it's superb and the build quality is very good. I haven't looked at a new Talisman, so can't say if the quality has gone down or not. One thing I do know, is that I'm a great fan of the Monocoque construction. They are also great for spares and advice, however, when I have talked to service they always put me through to spares for advice :roll: Spares really know there stuff. H


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## Trance (Mar 2, 2007)

edited


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