# Problems with delivery dates now!



## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hello one and all

Can anyone give me some advice?

I have just received a call this morning from Alan Kerr stating that their original delivery date from Swift has now changed and that the end of May now looks like August some time!!! 

Whilst the date itself is not a problem as we had made no plans until we have the MH in the flesh (metal!) so to speak - but I am little worried that Swift would make a promise and then back track from it - sounds a little suspicious to me - but I could be being over cautious! A dealer worth his salt must have good buying power and a good relationship with its supplier - would Swift do this to them?

Also if no definite date in August this would worry me too.There are obvious implications on price as 1st Sept sees a 59 plate arrive and so the price quoted would be for a 09 MH!

Should i stick it out? Should i contact Swift - would they give me any info? Should I renegotiate ? They have my sizeable deposit!

They have offered to sell me a 2nd hand one for now and buy it back at agreed written price once new one is ready!!!?!!! Can't make business sense? I am soooo not keen on that idea would rather wait - gets too complicated. My son who is a graduate lawyer says that although something is in writing it is the time and money you need to fight it through whilst remembering that this is a pleasre/leisure item.

oh what to do - thought i was solved - thought it all through- done the legwork and negotiating - this is a true spanner in the works!! grrr

once again help very much appreciated from experienced MHers and feedback gratefully recevied! THANKS IN ADVANCE! x


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi, 

We purchased a new Bolero at the NEC in Feb, was told first week of April for delivery, then informed late May. I hope ours is not delayed until Aug, ferry booked for 23 July!

Speak to Andy at Swift, I have his contact No if required.

Regards

Les


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Speak to Swift. They are helpful. With luck they will pick up this message or you could PM them.


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

I would get back to Alan Kerr and say it is an unacceptable wait as that is a vast difference from May to August!

You are buying from the dealer they need to honour their contract! If not you are entitled to your full deposit back.

2 or 3 weeks delay maybe acceptable but not that length of time.

I would get in touch with Swift and find out from them what is going on.

Alan Kerr is local to me and when they first started in the motorhome business quite a few people I know had issues with them. Don't be fobbed off.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Motorhomes must have a fairly long build schedule. When you think of all the bits that have to be bought and fitted, and all the carpentry and wiring and gas and ...

I would imagine that when a dealer takes a firm order (and you pay a deposit), he will order from the manufacturer, who will reserve a certain van in the build schedule. That's if he doesn't already have vans coming in on consignment. At that point, it must be reasonably clear what the delivery time to the dealer will be.

I can think there are three reasons for this type of delay: 
1) Either Swift have big production problems at the factory
2) The economic slowdown has meant that Swift have had to cut back on their workforce, resulting in extension to all deliveries
3) There is some undisclosed commercial issue between the dealer and the factory which has meant the dealer's orders have been shuffled back.

I really think you need to get an answer from your dealer as to why the huge delay, and then contact Swift to confirm what the dealer says, My own feeling is that it is a ridiculous delay from a confirmed delivery date, and you may need to consider looking elsewhere. Do you have any confidence that they will keep to the August delivery date?

Gerald


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

lifestyle said:


> Hi, we purchased a new Bolero at the NEC in Feb,was told first week of April for delivery,then informed late May. I hope ours has not delayed until Aug,ferry booked for 23 July.
> Speak to Andy at Swift,i have his contact No if required.
> 
> Regards
> ...


yes please - would like to hear both sides as had unnerved me now!


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

gelathae said:


> Speak to Swift. They are helpful. With luck they will pick up this message or you could PM them.


sorry as a newbie some of the terms are a bit baffling! what is PM and how do i do it! thanks


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

zulurita said:


> I would get back to Alan Kerr and say it is an unacceptable wait as that is a vast difference from May to August!
> 
> You are buying from the dealer they need to honour their contract! If not you are entitled to your full deposit back.
> 
> ...


i know thats what i feel - a few weeks maybe but August makes me feel there never was a MH in the 1st place - there has to be some trust to go ahead!! would love swift to confirm the situation for me as a £60K customer! and also for some trust to be regained and to explain where my original MH has gone to!

whilst i know i am entitled to a full refund it does not get me a MH nor does it allow for the sheer amount of time and effort and legwork put in to achieve the final choice of van at the right price! AK are very competitive and local - altho i have NOW read the issues certain users have had with them! makes u wary but may be that is good?!

i have emailed oldenstar and he recommended i speak to you anyway re AK! so here we are you've beaten me to it! why do you get warranty/service work done elsewhere? what feedback can you give me re AK?

thanks


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Sorry to hear of your woes...........

As I understand it, motorhomes are built in batches by model type, so as to streamline production (ensure all the right parts are in the right place at the right time for the right model...). Volume manufacturers cannot build, say, 2 Kon-tiki's then 1 Bolero then 3 EK's then 1 Kon-tiki etc etc etc as the technicians would be running hither and thither all over the factory sourcing the necessary parts to build them.

By all means speak to Swift - but is it just possible that Kerr's promised you an early date just to get your business? (call me cynical if you like!!!).

Personally, I wouldnt like to leave a 'sizeable' deposit with any dealer in this climate......I dont know how much you have deposited, but a grand or so (on a credit card - for protection) would be my limit.....if the dealer told me that wasnt enough, then sorry - i am sure that he doesnt have to lay out much in the way of cash to place the order (I may be wrong on that point - I am sure Peter of Johns Cross would clarify...).

I do hope you manage to sort it out soon...
very best regards,
Carl


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi,

It is not neccessary for a dealer to pay any money at all when he places an order, he does however have to have a 'credit line' available.

In our case, Swift inform us when the van is available and we just send them a cheque.

As a matter of interest what model Swift have you ordered.?

Peter


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## BBJ (Jan 23, 2009)

Hi
We also bought Swift Bolero 680FB at Nec in February, from West Country Motorhomes - they contacted Swift who advised that we could take delivery on 22nd April. During the last two months we have had good communication with the Dealer and today we collected our MH and are absolutely delighted and well worth the wait, we would have been devastated if they had put the delivery date back. Would suggest that your Dealer should be the one fighting your corner - they have your deposit. Hope you get it sorted soon.


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

geraldandannie said:


> Motorhomes must have a fairly long build schedule. When you think of all the bits that have to be bought and fitted, and all the carpentry and wiring and gas and ...
> 
> I would imagine that when a dealer takes a firm order (and you pay a deposit), he will order from the manufacturer, who will reserve a certain van in the build schedule. That's if he doesn't already have vans coming in on consignment. At that point, it must be reasonably clear what the delivery time to the dealer will be.
> 
> ...


yes all of these have gone thru my head!! but why would swift commit then change - and so dramatically! the latter is the one i fear! the dealer says that the email they have from swift does not explain why!seems a little unlikely but maybe i'm just a pessimist!and yes i have wondered if August will be honoured now as doubts are already there in my head!


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

BBJ said:


> Hi
> We also bought Swift Bolero 680FB at Nec in February, from West Country Motorhomes - they contacted Swift who advised that we could take delivery on 22nd April. During the last two months we have had good communication with the Dealer and today we collected our MH and are absolutely delighted and well worth the wait, we would have been devastated if they had put the delivery date back. Would suggest that your Dealer should be the one fighting your corner - they have your deposit. Hope you get it sorted soon.


the latter is what i thought but just wondered if that was me - so good to hear someone else voice it! they should be fighting my corner a deal is a deal! a slight delay is one thing!! i hope so tooooo!


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Sorry to hear of your woes...........
> 
> As I understand it, motorhomes are built in batches by model type, so as to streamline production (ensure all the right parts are in the right place at the right time for the right model...). Volume manufacturers cannot build, say, 2 Kon-tiki's then 1 Bolero then 3 EK's then 1 Kon-tiki etc etc etc as the technicians would be running hither and thither all over the factory sourcing the necessary parts to build them.
> 
> ...


lot more than a grand! and not on credit card!!! perhaps they saw me coming! as you say had not thought about them saying a date to get my business then not being able to honour it to tie you in! am i so gullible? i thought that when a date was agreed that was an agreement save for a few weeks either way for hiccups!! eek seriously worried now! did not expect this much hassle before i bought the MH!!! assumed that was the security for the build! oh sh**


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

There is no need whatsover to pay more than a £1000 deposit on any van UNLESS it is a special order build.

Dealers asking for more......................................

Peter


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> Motorhomes must have a fairly long build schedule. When you think of all the bits that have to be bought and fitted, and all the carpentry and wiring and gas and ...
> Gerald


Did you see the programme a week or two ago on building a Winnebago Gerald?

I think it took less than a fortnight from start to finish, but I missed a crucial bit of the programme so am not entirely sure.

It certainly wasn't very long though, and that was a $250,000 40 foot palace . . . so it can be done!!

Pity we don't have a similar work ethic to our neighbours across the pond!!

Dave


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Zeb,

MH's are made in batches according to model, we place an order for stock vans for the forecourt and then get them when available.

If a customer places an order for a non stock van, we place an order and then wait.

Peter


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Peter

Yes, I know how it works here, but was just illustrating that it need not be that way.

The OP might like to quote the Winnebago example, just as an off-the-cuff remark to focus the dealer's mind. :? :roll: 

I know it's impractical for the likes of Swift etc., but it makes the unscheduled delays even more irritating when such a complex machine as a Winnie can be screwed together so quickly. :evil: 

Dave


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

ezzy66 said:


> lifestyle said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, we purchased a new Bolero at the NEC in Feb,was told first week of April for delivery,then informed late May. I hope ours has not delayed until Aug,ferry booked for 23 July.
> ...


*Ezzy, i have PM you*


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> As I understand it, motorhomes are built in batches by model type, so as to streamline production (ensure all the right parts are in the right place at the right time for the right model...). Volume manufacturers cannot build, say, 2 Kon-tiki's then 1 Bolero then 3 EK's then 1 Kon-tiki etc etc etc as the technicians would be running hither and thither all over the factory sourcing the necessary parts to build them.


Not all motorhomes Carl. I'm told that Frankia dealers buy a manufacturing slot in advance and can choose to have built whatever model they like, up to about a twelve week before manufacture deadline. What's more we have just had ours delivered two weeks early so no problem to them obviously

Ron


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Hi ezzy66 - have your done a search around the dealers, to see if there is one on a forecourt in the model you want - perhaps even Peter has one at JCM? Always worth a check and you should be able to get your money back, but if you do have to pay a deposit in the future, use a Credit Card - not debit a Credit Card.... always worth it, if there should be any problems.

Carol


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

*Moved the post*

I have moved the post to the Swift forum, and perhaps it may bring some reply for you regarding this problem.

I still think you need to go back to Alan Kerr for more information, but I don't think it can hurt to get some information from Swift as to why the delay is so long.

Carol


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

carol said:


> Hi ezzy66 - have your done a search around the dealers, to see if there is one on a forecourt in the model you want - perhaps even Peter has one at JCM? Always worth a check and you should be able to get your money back, but if you do have to pay a deposit in the future, use a Credit Card - not debit a Credit Card.... always worth it, if there should be any problems.
> 
> Carol


Hi Carol,

Unortunately not, I have a tag lowline but its an end bedroom., I concur with the deposit comment and not above £1000 in my view

Peter


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

thanks one and all for all your help and advice and PMs - i have finally sorted things out and am rather more than a little relieved! thanks to Swift for prompt help and confirmation/clarification. roll on Kon Tiki is all i can say - this is tiring and way too stressful but then good things are worth waiting for!


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

ezzy66 said:


> thanks one and all for all your help and advice and PMs - i have finally sorted things out and am rather more than a little relieved! thanks to Swift for prompt help and confirmation/clarification. roll on Kon Tiki is all i can say - this is tiring and way too stressful but then good things are worth waiting for!


Would you like to tell us how you've sorted it out, bearing in mind that you implied that Alan Kerr's weren't being truthful and straight forward with you. You were blaming them for delaying delivery and asking for a big deposit that you were frightened of losing and various others posted ambiguous messages implying that you were being taken for a ride. Would you like to put the record straight ..... ? When WILL you be getting your new motorhome, then?


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

time-traveller said:


> ezzy66 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks one and all for all your help and advice and PMs - i have finally sorted things out and am rather more than a little relieved! thanks to Swift for prompt help and confirmation/clarification. roll on Kon Tiki is all i can say - this is tiring and way too stressful but then good things are worth waiting for!
> ...


Apologies if I did not give a full and frank enough answer but I am in the middle of a bank holiday weekend and run a campsite and diner and am vvvvv busy at the moment but to avoid any embarassment or misunderstanding I am posting another reply in the quite time i have left this evening!

I did not imply that Alan Kerr were being untruthful i *stated* that it seemed a little suspicious and i think handing over £3,000 with no receipt and no contact and then a sudden u turn from end May to August would seem mighty suspicious to most right minded people let alone someone trying to carve a deal on her own for the 1st time! Especially in the current economic climate and now knowing some of Alan Kerr's history! Also the dealer were not explaining themselves at all well and stating they had no further info from swift!

I am still a little wary of leaving a large deposit for so long but i am assured that this is the norm for this dealer for ordering such a high spec vehicle - its assures them I am not a time waster! I did not and could not use a credit card for the deposit as I do not own one! I went through a very tough time before and after my husband died and learned that if I haven't the cash for something then I don't have it fullstop! I don't do credit!!! I still am worried about the deposit who wouldn't when its 4 months out - I just have to hope that Alan Kerr do not go out of business before September!!

The date is now mid Sept so after several heated phone calls the date is even further on! It turns out there was confusion between a high line and low line vehicle - i had ordered the former and the dates given to the dealer were for the latter as these are currently in manufacture. This is where Alan Kerr got it wrong and where I am disappointed in them as this is rather stupid and most careless error to make!Swift confirmed direct to me that they are not building high lines until August and that is why the date is open ended as production has not yet commmenced it is hard apparently to give a completion date! I am stuck with waiting this long as new 2009 Kon Tiki 679 high lines are not available until then. There are some 2008 ones still available but this would affect my trade in price later and my negotiated purchase price so i did not pursue this. Swift have assured me that the price i have agreed with my dealer will be honoured for the new delivery date and that i have an absolute outside date of delivery that if passed will be recompensed by them! Therefore some blame does lie with the dealer and no change to my post there!

I now have a receipt from Alan Kerr for my deposit and await written confirmation from them re delivery date and price agreed as of last week.

But for the intervention of Swift i would have cancelled my order. There seems to have been genuine confusion but being the piggy in the middle did not help for me! I would say for the record poor communication on Swifts part to the dealer and as above poor attention to detail by Alan Kerr!

I have been PMd by some people who kindly offered my their point of view and their dealings with Alan Kerr. These are PM postings and as such will stay that way! All have been borne in mind and help me make an informed decision. Until i take delivery and have a PDI i cannot comment - also until i have owned the vehicle and run into a problem i cannot coment further on the dealership! I note with interest that other dealers on here have no problem and no hesitation in putting down another dealer without knowing any of the facts! Perhaps this says more about them than anything! Certainly the tone used to me was aggressive and in PMs quite offensive and unnecesary! Just for the record - being as we are doing just that! As for 'time traveller's' comments about others' posts I cannot comment as I did not infer anything they did - but it did put a two sided argument out there and shows we all think the worst when sh** happens! I did react to them as most human beings would! Especially under stress/pressure, it did make me wonder! When dealing with emotions and lots of money the two can make for lots of problems - especially when dreams are being realized or broken!

Many thanks to local owner Zulurita for her prompt advice and PMs!
As i stated perhaps good things are worth waiting for!

As i stated i have made no plans and therefore the date does not really impact - my only concern was loss of money and trust! Also the truth so as to gain trust again! And of course time wasting and hassle! When so much money is at stake it is hard to trust especially a salesman! It would have been nice sooner but if there is not a vehicle built then all the screaming and shouting isn;t going to change that!Also I would have liked the deal to have gone smoothly to help my confidence and so that leisure could become pleasure! but heh hopefully this is my 1st and last hiccup as a fairly major one i think!

I trust this satisfies - but if not I am sure I will hear more!

Night all x


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Ezzy

Thanks for the full clarification on your situation. It's good you've had direct communication with Swift, and at least you've now got a definite stop date.

I'm sorry you've had offensive PMs. This is, unfortunately, the way of online forums, where people think they can say things they wouldn't say face to face.

At least, you sound happier at the outcome. I'd be anxious about not having a receipt for the deposit, and I think I'd be tempted to visit them in person to get the written receipt. I'm a little surprised that they took the deposit without giving you a receipt.

I hope the wait isn't too long.

Gerald


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

FYI!

I have pdq receipt print out for large(!) deposit - swift order form - letter from Alan Kerr confirming deposit terms and price and dates and these are to be honoured until new delivery date. Phone confirmation from Dave Williams at Swift. Getting there.

Am due to visit dealer next week ...

Many thanks for all your kind remarks and support/help and also advice re dealer taken on board - will have to wait and see - will definitely post my feelings after PDI one way or tother - hopefully will be a positive response!

Just got 14 weeks to wait - eeek / grrr/ bah/ ummmpphh!!

over n out!


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

ezz66 I'm glad everything is sorted.

As the only thing that now concerns you is the amount of the deposit being held for an extended period, and as has been suggested by another dealer that it is excessive.

Why don't you ask them, as a gesture of goodwill to return all but £1000 of it, which would allow you to sleep more soundly.

Just a thought


Andrew


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi Android

I might do - but then i might not - would not want the dealer thinking i was back tracking and get everyone all stirred up! I suppose i have to pay it now or later!lol!

I see where you're coming from and if something (god forebid!) did go wrong i have lost less!! I have someone keeping a daily eye on the forecourt down there in case things start shifting too quickly!lol!

Also have done a little detective work myself (with help!) on the company's background and financial state - also Mr Kerr himself - so for now I will probably leave things be. If any info is forthcoming to change my opinion then I will certainly do just that!!

Thanks for thoughts tho and best wishes x


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

ezzy66 - I am glad you feel happier, and if it makes you feel even better, I will tell you that we ordered our Rapido in Germany in September 2007 for a delivery promised in April/May 2008 (the wait was due to wanting the automatic Fiat that wasn't due out until January) and then of course they had to build it and fit in with the build of our model... Fare enough.

We didn't have to pay anything at all at order. We were asked to pay about £10,000 - just before Christmas, which is when the actual confirmed order had to go in, and then the rest upon delivery and handover. 

So our deposit was even higher - but they had informed us that normally it is a 50% deposit in Germany.... which maybe because we were not buying a stock model but had chosen lots of variations on the Fiat etc., as well, so probably not a model they would normally have ordered. (One of the benefits of chosing what you actually want, as opposed to what the dealer orders)

Look forward to seeing you out and about when you have it.

Carol


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

ezzy I am glad everything seems on course. There are a few on here that do tend to 'shout' at people rather than listen to very real worries and concerns. It is a pity because it kills debate and then we end up by nit picking and losing sight of the main point. I am sorry you were on the end of this at a time when you were really worried and stressed.

It sounds like everything is on course now and hope to hear you have the successful and pain free delivery of a dream motorhome. Pictures would be lovely if you can post them.


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Glad it is all sorted for you  September will soon be here although it is a pity you will have missed out on the summer season. Mind you it isn't very nice today, more like winter  

However September is a lovely month so you should get some good use of your new mh when it is delivered.


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## ezzy66 (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi yes thanks - Carol,Roamingsue and Zulurita

It seems all sorted for now - all i can now do is wait - not too worried about 'the summer' as we have a campsite and cannot escape before September anyway! Usually much nicer weather then and quieter!(not that as you so rightly say it is much of anything these last few days and today is wintry - had the heating on last night!) Will definitely post pictures of the beauty once i have her! and will definitely be out and about in her asap after that! so watch this space ...

BUT just as it seems that as I am beginning to relax about the whole thing something else crops up!

I would have to ask you Carol - you seem quite close to this gentleman at Johns Cross - how do you know each other - you are based near there? How did he contact you for you to know such 'facts'? How was he privvy to such information? Who is the supplier then?

I would most definitely like to speak to you! I find it all very bizarre and incredulous!

Signing off from the never ending saga!!!


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