# If I was to wire the output from an inverter straight into..



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

If I was to wire the output from an inverter straight into the 240v circuit via a 3 pin plug to 3 pin plug lead ie plug it into the 240v socket in the tv cupboard right next to the inverter site - would that power the rest of the circuit without causing any other problems or safety issues,
or do I have to run a separate feed to the electrical distribution board?
Please advise
Vidura


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

It depends whether you consider running your batteries down as a problem 

There are plenty of ways of doing what you want, you just trade cost and convenience.

Dave


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## 89338 (May 20, 2005)

I hope I have got you wrong , are you suggesting that you make a lead that plugs into the output side of the inverter and then plugs into a spare socket in the van.

Yes it would work but illegal and very dangerous as the pins on the plug you intend to plug into the spare socket are potentially live and unguarded.

Not a good idea

Please don't do it. 

lampie


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

..


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Totally agree with Lampie.

The simplest way is to make up a lead that connects the output of the inverter to the blue 16 amp input socket in the side of the MH. But if you do this then first ensure that the Electric water heater, mains side of the fridge and charging unit are turned OFF first. All you actually need to power are the 13 amp sockets in your van.
There is a tidy way to achieve this automatically using a contactor. But its a job for the professional as its mains.

Have a look at :-

http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/INVERTER.htm

C.


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

A safer way to achieve the same result would be to make a lead that you plug into the inverter via a 13amp plug and use a 16amp hook-up type socket to plug into your normal hookup on the outside of your van. This would be safe and also ensure that you don't accidently have both mains hookup and inverter running at the same time.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Well it may be but its what I do. Just remember to plug everything in before switching on. I've done it for years. Oh, don't forget to switch the charger unit off first otherwise the battery is trying to charge itself which is a waste of battery capacity.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

..


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

"Electrocution!"
Makes you jump a bit as well!


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Hold on, I'm not deaf. 

Bet you can think of a good follow up to that!


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## Proff (Jul 22, 2005)

averhamdave said:


> Hold on, I'm not deaf.
> 
> Bet you can think of a good follow up to that!


IF you were Deaf.
forgetting the sequence could blow the wax out of your ears !!

I'm with Pippin, If ever I park next to you, Fire extinguisher will be at the ready !! 8O


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I think, Vidura, if you have to ask the question, you shouldn't do it.

I've thought for a long time that asking for and offering advice on mains electricity-related subjects on a public forum is extremely dangerous. The person asking the question may be OK doing something, the person offering the advice may be OK, but someone else reading the threads could be a huge accident waiting to happen.

Mains electricity can, and often does, kill. There's a reason why any electrical work on a domestic residence has to be done by a competent person, approved to :: Part P :: regulations. Just because it's in a plastic box on wheels, doesn't mean it hurts any less when it goes wrong.

Gerald


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## geordie01 (Apr 20, 2006)

why would you want to do that?


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Gerald, I agree with your posting.

I just said it's what I do. A lot of people do it, doesn't make it right, no. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone else to do it then the same comment could apply to lots of things.

I may actually think about the inverter to hook up socket option (maybe)

BTW, where's the fire hazard with this? Electric shock potential etc yes, fire I'm not sure.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

averhamdave said:


> BTW, where's the fire hazard with this? Electric shock potential etc yes, fire I'm not sure.


A large proportion of fires in the home are caused by faulty electrical installations. I think that is where the fire hazard is.
Gerry


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

If you power up the equipment from the inverter is there an earth provided? If they do not get one when on the inverter why do you need an earth connnection when on EHU?


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Vidura,

I use the method that you are proposing. There are two safety issues:

The exposed live plug must be plugged in first so you do not have exposed live pins. 
Remember to disconnect it all before you use a hook up. I usually drape something over the steering wheel to remind me. 

I do not have kids in the van either

I assume you are a responsible adult, so it's your call. It is not something that should be encouraged, but I doubt very much that you and me are the first to consider it.

Personally I rarely use 230v, so although I am all set up for the above, have only done it a few times. 

The best way would be a permanent wire from the inverter and a switch over for the incoming supply.

As an afterthought, the restrictions on 230v wiring under Part P of the Building Regs do not apply to caravans


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

rayc said:


> If you power up the equipment from the inverter is there an earth provided? If they do not get one when on the inverter why do you need an earth connnection when on EHU?


The earth is connected to the negative on an inverter . On mains the earth is connected to the neutral (at the substation, which is then connected to earth). However with the inverter, there is no actual earth wire to ground connection. But remember, you are more likely to touch the bodywork of your van thanthe ground in a shock scenario.


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## Rocles (May 1, 2005)

My preference would be to simply plug a two or four way trailing socket into the Inverter, maybe even mount that permanently, clearly marked INVERTER ONLY. That way its totally separate from the EHU circuits, which in my view is a route fraught with possible dangers 8O


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

krull said:


> As an afterthought, the restrictions on 230v wiring under Part P of the Building Regs do not apply to caravans


If not, then it's a stupid oversight, IMO. Sometimes, there is the assumption that, because it's a vehicle, we can DIY anything we want to. It frightens me when people talk about changing hoses on LPG systems - and I wonder how many people doing this would check for gas leakage, or be aware of where the gas might leak to.

Some time ago, we used to talk about having meets to install satellite dishes and God knows what onto each other's vans, without considering what the consequences of a leak through the roof or damage to a motorhome would be.

Maybe I'm just being grumpy today 

Gerald


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Gerald

You are of course quite right. 

But from a personal point of view, I have let a major dealer loose on my gas system twice. Both of those were an absolute disgrace. 

The first time one of their connections that suspected had developed a leak came off in my hand. The second was a fridge repair by glossop caravans. They damaged the igniter and positioned it so it did not cross the flame and the jet was also blocked. They simply had not tested it. 

Did I complain, no, as on each case I was away, I repaired the problem myself and came to the conclusion that (for me) how can doing something yourself be more dangerous than using a proffesional?

Sorry to sound so negative and in each of the above situations, it was warranty work so I did not pay, but it does make me wonder how many others do the same but understandably do not stick their heads above the parapet.


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## RainDancer (May 24, 2005)

Hi

I have been watching this thread with interest being an electrical contractor. From the 1st of July caravans and motorhomes/campers come under the regulations BS 7671:2008 17th edition of the IEE wiring regulation section 721. In my opinion Part P would apply to works carried out in the kitchen or bathroom areas of caravans and motorhomes/campers. So you should be a competent person to carry out the works. Rule of thumb if you have to ask you are not competent, if in doubt get an electrician to do the works. Hope this helps.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

..


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

I have done my own gas and electrics all my adult life both in houses and vehicles. I have no qualifications for either.
I have one simple rule.
When I have done the work, before using the result, get a qualified person to check it all out.
This saves me a lot of money, teaches me a bit more almost every time and makes very useful friends who will answer any questions I have next time around.
Professionals seem to like the scheme cos they get a fee without the nasty bits like crawling under cupboards. I have never had a problem finding someone to do the checks and quickly, too.


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

The other problem you may have is if you plug your inverter 240v supply into the EHU socket of your van and something goes wrong with the EC325 power unit on your Autotrail van. Autotrail won't cover this under your warranty and it could prove expensive. 

I phoned the factory to ask whether I could do this to my 2008 Cheyenne as a method of supplying 240 volts and they said absolutely no because the vans' system is set to 240 mains supply only. They will only accept certain generator outputs too, so check with Autotrail first to get their feelings on your suggestion.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

ANNSMAN thanks for the Autotrail info, shalln't be connecting via the plug then! Have thanked you officially - good info always welcome.

KRULL thanks for your owning up to this practice as well, you and I are two of thousands doing it. BTW I follow your same safety practices - no kids, warning notice put up etc.

PIPPIN unless you have something to say that is factual and constructive please leave me out. You are bordering upon being offensive.

I am not an electrician but I am a qualified mechanical engineer and have had a fair degree of formal electrical training, I know the game, the dangers etc, but thanks for your concern anyway.

Oh and again, there is no fire hazard. I have an expensive inverter, hard wired into the van, fused, correct gauge cable, the lot.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

This is how I did mine.
Disconnected the wire from to MCB going to the sockets (Rapido's have seperate MCB's for heating, charger, fridge, sockets)
Fixed a PLUG on its end (needed to be extended)
Connected in a SOCKET to the output from the MCB
Mounted the socket close to the inverter.
When on EHU put the plug into the socket wired to the MCB = sockets in van supplied from EHU
When not on EHU put plug into socket in inverter = sockets fed from inverter.
NB this only works when there is a socket circuit separate from the outer heavy users of mains eg. water heater, fridge, etc. and the charger.
Colin


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I have edited out the text from my previous postings on this subject as I no longer wish to offend averhamdave.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Thankyou :lol:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Oh, and just like asprn - it's goodbye from me.

Another forum member logging out, never to return.


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## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hmmm ... seemed to have opened up a can of worms. Sorry everyone!
Pippin, I never got to see your posts as I came back late - surely averhamdave's response not reason enough to leave though - I hope you reconsider.

Re subject of my post - Ok I know the possible dangers and agree probably best to not be lazy and hardwire a line into the 240v circuit - but will this still leave the inverter trying to charge the battery which is feeding the inverter. I want to avoid this.
I just want to use the mains circuit already wired throughout the van for convenience and to avoid extension leads etc.
BTW many thanks for all your input.
Vidura


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

Hi Vidura, if your charger is in the same circuit as the habitation sockets then I reckon you're snookered, but if your sockets have their own unique circuit then see my earlier post. BTW the way I have mine done there aren't any exposed live bits and you can't accidentally run the sockets on EHU and inverter simultaneously.
Colin


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## Proff (Jul 22, 2005)

I blame this lousy weather.    
Toys flying out of prams everywhere !!!!! :evil: :evil:


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

1st Why would you want to do that, and 2nd what output would the converter be. Are you looking to power 240 systems from an inverter?

Don't go there


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## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

sysinfo said:


> 1st Why would you want to do that, and 2nd what output would the converter be. Are you looking to power 240 systems from an inverter?
> 
> Don't go there


1. So I can use other sockets in the van to run laptop charger, phone charger - nothing power hungry, just don't want extension leads trailing around.
2. 150 watts only
Vidura


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

..........water heater, electric fire, hair dryer, power tools, electric welder......12kw should get the job done :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

sysinfo said:


> 1st Why would you want to do that, and 2nd what output would the converter be. Are you looking to power 240 systems from an inverter?
> 
> Don't go there


Why not go there? It's been damned convenient in my van for 3.5 years and counting.

Dave


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

THe only way you would get away with it without giving problems to your control/fuse box would be to output the inverter to a multi socket and plug in what you need for charging. 150 watts will power a laptop and Phone no probs. I have a 1500 inverter in my motorhome.....powers the wifes hairdrier


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> sysinfo said:
> 
> 
> > 1st Why would you want to do that, and 2nd what output would the converter be. Are you looking to power 240 systems from an inverter?
> ...


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well, there are loads of ways you can do it perfectly safely, and simply trading cost and convenience between them. I use one of these - fit and forget:
http://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva/

Dave


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## 96057 (Aug 18, 2005)

I don't ever park up at sites so never need to use a hook up other than when at home for topping up batteries or running fridge in the summer when using it as a 'day van.' I have cut the feed from the outside hook up and attached it to a socket on the inside. The feed to my internal electrics now has a plug on the end of it and when I wish to use the hook up I attach it to the socket. When I use my considerable battery bank via the inverter, I attach it to the inverter and have power out of the usual sockets as you wished. 

The installation couldn't be simpler, no more complicated than fitting a plug/socket to an extension cable.

I have to remember to turn off the hot water and charger RCDs however after that all works extremely well. It is physically impossible to connect both inverter supply and hook up at the same time. The electrical connections pass any electricians examination. It is safe and convieninet. I want to be able to provide 240v supply wherever I am, as I live off the grid for a fortnight at a time without a generator I find this suits me to a tee. Each to their own, just ensure any work you do/get done is carried out to a high standard and meets current regs (no pun intended!)


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