# Xenon HID kit for x250



## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

Any thoughts on these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XENON-HID-KIT...ervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item45ef78e551


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

> Fully Road Legal


So that also includes auto levelling and headlight washing then does it?


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

I don't have headlight washers on mine


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Hell of a lot of dosh for an unnecessary upgrade. The standard headlights are surely perfectly adequate for the normal speeds that a Motorhome would do.
Gerry


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Go for it, I have upgraded and they are far better, and contrary to popular belief they are only illegal if they dazzle or are fitted incorrectly I took mine to the local council testing station after the fit and told them what I had done they tested them and passed them and told me the above.

And mine didn't have washers either.

The set you are looking at is very expensive, Find the type of bulb yours uses and get the equivalent, mine cost £27.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

If you are worried you could always use the Philips "Xtreme power" bulb which gives over 80% more power in tests.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> The set you are looking at is very expensive, Find the type of bulb yours uses and get the equivalent, mine cost £27.


Are these HID's ? IE gas discharge with ballast units. I've never seen them for £27.

D.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Yes here is another item number on fleabay they are £38 

360174972178


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

You will need to check your h/lamp lenses, if they are plastic do not use Xenon conversion as they can melt the plastic, Then you would need to use the Philips Xtreme which are excellent bulbs and really do make a vast difference.

they are also on fleabay and are about £17 a pair


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

As per the above, if "proper" HID's are fitted, to be fully legal you have to have self levelling lights and also washers. You are lucky indeed to get away with an MOT without. It's in the regulations and DOT recently published clarification on the subject - they are NOT legal if simply fitted as replacement lamps, for several reasons

If anyone doubts me then please look at THIS LINK

I use the Philips extreme lamps and they're OK - good value if you can get them on offer.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

In order to be "fully road legal" HID set ups must be fitted with self levelling and headlamp washing and fitted to properly designed light units.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

PS accepting the word of your local grease monkey on a point of law (even if he is a ball scratching, tea/coffee drinking, council employee - see "Joke" thread) is a risky exercise.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Hi Stanner - great minds think alike!!  

That's two of us that know the law...........


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Each conversion kit comes with a replacement bulb, at the bottom of the bulb is a solenoid which automatically "Self levels" the bulb that is why when you see a xenon headlamp switched on it usually appears to go up and down this is the "self levelling" of the bulb, also the self levelling part of the rule I believe can be covered with "Suspension" ie air suspension and so on which is fitted to some cars, as far as the washers is concerned I have no idea, My old one did not have them but my new one does, Unfortunately I cannot put xenon on my new vehicle as it has plastic lenses so I use Xtreme.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

SaddleTramp said:


> Each conversion kit comes with a replacement bulb, at the bottom of the bulb is a solenoid which automatically "Self levels" the bulb that is why when you see a xenon headlamp switched on it usually appears to go up and down this is the "self levelling" of the bulb, also the self levelling part of the rule I believe can be covered with "Suspension" ie air suspension and so on which is fitted to some cars, as far as the washers is concerned I have no idea, My old one did not have them but my new one does, Unfortunately I cannot put xenon on my new vehicle as it has plastic lenses so I use Xtreme.


Well they obviously don't work then, judging by the ones fitted to a Smart Car that followed me down a bumpy road recently or perhaps they just can't handle the appalling suspension pitching of Smarts.

And why do the DfT consider their fitment is illegal then?


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Stanner said:


> And why do the DfT consider their fitment is illegal then?


Did you mean "legal"?

Cheers
David


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

I cannot help you with that at all, I know that when I fitted mine I took it to the local VOSA station where they tested the Headlight pattern carried out a small adjustment on one side and passed the fitting, I also got a form stating they had been tested and were suitable.


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

as far as im aware if your hids have a correct beam pattern at the time of test they cannot fail the mot as the self leveling and auto cleaniing are not part of the test. 

so if self leveling/cleaning are not part of the mot where does the law part come in?


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

Well I think that cleared that up nicely    

Thanks to all - I will stick to the Philips "Xtreme power" bulb I think 8)


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

karlb said:


> so if self leveling/cleaning are not part of the mot where does the law part come in?


Herebelow. It is pretty clear where the law and which laws are broken. This is a direct quote from the DFT; I think they know what they are talking about. Up to you if you want to break the law. What would happen if you had an accident, someone was injured and the other driver claims he was dazzled and then the insurance people or police investigators had a look at your van or car..........it might well be unlikely but don't forget that insurance companies look for ways of not paying out and it's probably an easy target achieving nick as well. I prefer staying on the right side of the law:

Aftermarket HID lghts must:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

duxdeluxe said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > And why do the DfT consider their fitment is illegal then?
> ...


??

The DfT consider that the fitment of aftermarket HID bulbs is "not legal".

as in
"In the Department's view it is not legal  to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon."

If something is "not legal" I thought that meant it was illegal.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> The DfT consider that the fitment of aftermarket HID bulbs is "not legal".


They'd probably never find out, but if your insurance company found out say after a bump I'm of the opinion they'd take a dim view of the matter :lol:

I'll get my coat :!:


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

Had to use our van for commuting recently; mostly on poorly lit and twisty roads.

For the speed I felt comfortable with, bearing in mind peripheral light, narrow carriageway and other road conditions I found the standard lights on the X250 more than adequate (total transformation from older cab).

I'm also concerned that the high level of the lighting can be an annoyance, and maybe distraction for cars in front; a point reinforced when a Ducato van followed me in our car along the A637. I would not have liked it at all if it had been blessed with brighter peepers.

When travelling at night I always stay a fair way behind waiting vehicles to avoid flooding their interiors with light; in fact I sometimes feel embarrassed that I may be annoying drivers in front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation reverts to lower lights, even though the X250 design was intended to prevent damage to the lights in the event of a minor collision.

O


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

The above is the statement from DFT document, I take particular interest in the part where it states an offence to supply, The HID conversion kit I purchased were supplied and designed by Phillips, I think that maybe Phillips would not do something that was illegal, Or would they?

The Kit supplied by Phillips is designed with a Halogen type cage around the bulb, Does this cover the law ?. I don't know I would have thought that VOSA would know.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

SaddleTramp said:


> Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
> 
> The above is the statement from DFT document, I take particular interest in the part where it states an offence to supply, The HID conversion kit I purchased were supplied and designed by Phillips, I think that maybe Phillips would not do something that was illegal, Or would they?
> 
> The Kit supplied by Phillips is designed with a Halogen type cage around the bulb, Does this cover the law ?. I don't know I would have thought that VOSA would know.


Phillips are a global multi-national, do they approve the units for use within the EU? Are they CE marked?


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

yes They are CE marked and sold in the EU and in the UK :-


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Stanner said:


> If something is "not legal" I thought that meant it was illegal.


My mistake - senior moment - I misread your post - of course you are right. Thanks for the clarification

I did the obvious and emailed the seller to see what they say. The DfT says that the whole unit must be replaced, have washers and be self levelling.

Cheers everyone


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

duxdeluxe said:


> I did the obvious and emailed the seller to see what they say. The DfT says that the whole unit must be replaced, have washers and be self levelling.
> 
> Cheers everyone


I happened to go into Discount Auto Parts in Cambridge today and heard "HID" mentioned - so asked what their advice was re the CE marked units.

They are only CE marked for fitment to similarly CE marked light units suitable to use them, NOT for use in CE marked light units not designed to use them, as


> _"the filament position and size is not the same as for a tungsten bulb, whatever anybody else tells you and that means the beam pattern may not be correct" _.
> 
> In their opinion the DfT position you have set out is correct and suffice to say they no longer sell them.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Stanner said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> > I did the obvious and emailed the seller to see what they say. The DfT says that the whole unit must be replaced, have washers and be self levelling.
> ...


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

SaddleTramp said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > duxdeluxe said:
> ...


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

These aren't 'kit's' though are they? From what I can see it is the entire headlight assembly, lens, glass, the works?


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Don't think so - they are generic and not model specific. If it is a complete kit, does it also provide the required headlamp washing system?

Never heard of anyone being prosecuted but I am 100% certain that they are "not legal" (got it right that time!!).

Needless to say, the Ebay seller never bothered to reply to my question which tells a whole story in itself, doesn't it?

Autoquest, I would suggest that you email the seller and ask for some clarification on what is exactly in the unit. Hope you get more of a response than I do.......


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

No they are just the kits, ie 2 bulbs with solenoids two ballasts, and wiring harness,


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Stanner said:


> SaddleTramp said:
> 
> 
> > Stanner said:
> ...


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Well, You are quite free to buy a kit and install it but how can the above statement (which they would not put in writing for me - at least their customer services of a "not a tuppence hapenny company" didn't see fit to respond in writing to my question) square with the law as clearly written??

My view is that the seller did not reply because they know the law as written. I would love to see the telephonic assurance stand up in court if something terrible happened - of course they would stand up and confirm what they said to you over the phone......... wouldn't they?

Sorry - getting too cynical. Too many years in the oil trading business, but I still wouldn't touch them with a barge pole with marigold gloves tied on the end


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

duxdeluxe said:


> Well, You are quite free to buy a kit and install it but how can the above statement (which they would not put in writing for me - at least their customer services of a "not a tuppence hapenny company" didn't see fit to respond in writing to my question) square with the law as clearly written??
> 
> My view is that the seller did not reply because they know the law as written. I would love to see the telephonic assurance stand up in court if something terrible happened - of course they would stand up and confirm what they said to you over the phone......... wouldn't they?
> 
> Sorry - getting too cynical. Too many years in the oil trading business, but I still wouldn't touch them with a barge pole with marigold gloves tied on the end


But as he stated, it would be supplied as an Invoice listing the items, He would not need the "Telephonic statement" to stand up, The company would have given a legal standing receipt itemising all goods supplied and fitted by them, which in fact I did get today for what I purchased and had installed today.

I think that would be more legal than a "Telephonic statement" or a letter written saying they would supply it as it is THE document that would and does stand up in a court of law.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

OK

Gonna add my bit as well.

HID Conversion kits do NOT comply with vehicle type approval, OR The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations.

They are most definatley NOT a legal aftermarket fit.

ALL HID installations are required by law to have.

1. Automatic self levelling (type approved for HID)headlamps
2. Headlamp washers.

If they ARE a legal aftermarket fitting tell me why NONE of the vehicle manufacturers offer them OTHER than fitment FROM NEW ????


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

I think the difference may be that they don't make as much money out of them, To have them fitted as standard is £1200 + at from £27 there is not a lot of difference is there.

Now there are Vehicle manufacturers Agents that supply the HID after Market kit but somehow I don't think that applies.

Also just to buy a replacement headlamp unit (Basic) is £175 for my car, a replacement Headlamp manufactured by the same company that manufactures the genuine manufacturers fitted item can be purchased for as little as £63 from different locations.

I think that says it all.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

OK *Think* as you wish.

I dealt with such matters for a long time and I KNOW they are NOT legal.


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

As the last thing I want to do is argue the toss with Mr Plod after just melting his rear window  I'm going to pass and go for the brighter bulbs...

Thanks to everyone for the info though 8)


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Autoquest as I stated before they are good, If it makes you feel better Go with it.


Things change and I take note of MrPlods statement especially the part that says "Dealt" and not deal, I will find out because I still find it strange that such companies as the ones mentioned state they ARE legal and that the companies that Supply them state they ARE legal otherwise they would be prosecuted just for supplying them, Do not forget that a person who had purchased them would not need to be found, The company would have broken the law for offering them for sale as in the it is not legal to Supply part of the document.

Also I was told something that I cannot prove in any way shape or for the company fits them to it's own vehicles and to government vehicles.

Maybe, I don't know, I cannot have them fitted to mine or I would do without doubt.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Scroll through some other forums - they aren't legal and never will be. 

The seller obviously values my potential business so much as to not reply to my written questions as to legality of these kits and that is enough for me. Caveat emptor........ I still would not touch these or any other kits with a bargepole


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