# Downgrading weight of Autotrail Apache 700



## tourangang (Jul 26, 2008)

as you may of seen on other threads of mine on here, i have just been diagnosed iwth MND and the DVLA and downgraded my licence so i cant drive C1 Vehicals.

i was really after a autotrail apache 700 but the GVW is 4005kg. Do you reckon you could get it downplated to 3500kg - i know it would leave very little payload, but then at least i could drive it!, and TBA who is going to know if you go a few kg's over - at leave the chassis can take it?

john


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

It looks as if the MIRO is at least 3490kg so if you were to re-plate it to 3500kg you would have 10kg payload.
Not really practical is it?

It's all very well saying that no-one will know if you're a few kg over but in this case you'd be hundreds of kgs over under the terms of your license which could leave you uninsured or even prosecuted if you get involved in a collision.

Not worth the hassle, look for a lighter 'van.

Unfortunately the law is a bit of an ass in the area of health dictated weight restrictions and I believe it's due for a "looking at" but for the moment I think you're stuck with 3500kg.


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

The newer model 700 is grossed heavier at 4000kg BUT the net weight is also heavier... No way can i see that you will get anywhere near the 3500kg and be able to carry anything. From memory payload on these is about 585kg, so take off 500kg and your left with virtualy nowt.
Older version pre-2006 is 3850kg gross and 600kg payload, that would be easier to do, still leaves some payload and you could "trim" a bit if needed. ie remove spare wheel, drive with very little water in tank, take out one of the two table, remove the awning etc..

Regarding being a few KG over.. Well there is the ministry (VOSA) or police who could pull you over at anytime for a check. Take you off the road if the overweight is excessive. Insurance would be invalid if it's known your overweight in an accident. On the motorways there are now weight in motion sensors that check your weight as your driving, mainly for trucks BUT who know...

Maybe consider an older model as stepping stone ?? The 700 is a great layout and a nice build quality.. Good luck..


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

I cant edit my previous post.. 

But here is a previous thread, read down a bit and it gives some weights,....
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-86902-autotrail-scout-v-autotrail-apache-700-se.html


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## PaulW2 (May 30, 2010)

It looks like it may be tricky with this particular van.

More generally though I guess you may be able to compromise by taking a trailer if you end up with only a modest payload in a downplated van?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

If I understand this correctly, if you had owned a van which would now be overweight for your restriction for the last 10 years or more, suddenly you can't drive it legally until someone prints a new weight plate for it.

What a load of crap, what difference does it make, why not just ban you altogether, that at least would make some sort of sense.

The DVLA has some really stupid rules, and maybe it's time we had a topic on this with a local MP petition attached to it.

Grrr :evil: :twisted: :x


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weights*

It's a funny thing this weight business. Kev sums it up. My view is similar

A 3500kg motorhome is tonking along nicely when it ploughs into the side of a coach carrying 50 passengers.

A 4005 kg motorhome is tonking along nicely when it too ploughs into the side of a coach carrying 50 passengers.

I am of the opinion a person is either fit to drive or is not fit to drive.

Russell


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## tourangang (Jul 26, 2008)

Totaly agree - im going to phone them now, and see if i can appeal.

they are just tarring anyone with any medical condition with the same brush, my abiltiy is not compromised in any way, by my disease - i have spent the last 27 years working in the nuclear power industry where safety is drummed into us every day, that it is of the no1 priority - so i feel im the best person to judge whether im fit to drive or not =- and when the day comes when i feel its unsafe i will be hanging up my car keys!

John


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

People with restricted licenses can have C1 so long as they pass the appropriate medical (*).

A person who previously had an unrestricted license who now has a restricted one could indeed have been able to drive a bigger van for the last X years, but they also had an unrestricted licence for that time as well. Something has changed : that's why a 3yr licence is now being granted rather than a "permanent" one. (E.g. my wife lost hers when she went from tablet to insulin-controlled diabetic...clearly there was a difference so the fact she'd been allowed to drive a C1 vehicle for years was by-the-by : it's the situation & her health now that matters).

The law and DVLA is not an ass in this situation, the rules are for a reason. Yes, 3500kg is an arbitary cut-off but any number is arbitary. While the law may not be an ass, I would freely concede that the admin side of things at DVLA in _processing_ the application to regain C1 is not good...

_(*) Although one thing we've never got to the bottom of is, having had a pre-1997 C1 category revoked, an application is made sometime later to regain it on the basis of there being no medical grounds to disallow it, whether this is possible or it's back to square one of having to pass the HGV test as well. That's something we need to check out for my wife_

Paul


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

My dad had three operations for a brain tumour that affected his spacial awareness and judgement. My father in law is in a care home with Cerebella Degeneration and early stage Dementia, both thought they were fit enough to drive and wouldn't give up their licences, and argued quite firmly when the subject was broached. So we, as a family agreed to inform the DVLA they were unfit to drive. Their doctors would only say their driving would be affected, but wouldn't say outright they should be taken off the road. Fortunately the DVLA listened to us and took their licences off them before they killed or injured someon or themselves.

Just be careful you can actually grade your own driving honestly before taking this decision yourself. Ask your family for their opinions on your standard or ask a driving instructor to test you if you don't trust their opinion, but don't do it yourself. The brain will fool itself every time that everythings OK.


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

Annsman said:


> My dad had three operations for a brain tumour that affected his spacial awareness and judgement. My father in law is in a care home with Cerebella Degeneration and early stage Dementia, both thought they were fit enough to drive and wouldn't give up their licences, and argued quite firmly when the subject was broached. So we, as a family agreed to inform the DVLA they were unfit to drive. Their doctors would only say their driving would be affected, but wouldn't say outright they should be taken off the road. Fortunately the DVLA listened to us and took their licences off them before they killed or injured someon or themselves.
> 
> Just be careful you can actually grade your own driving honestly before taking this decision yourself. Ask your family for their opinions on your standard or ask a driving instructor to test you if you don't trust their opinion, but don't do it yourself. The brain will fool itself every time that everythings OK.


I agree. It does seem daft that you can dive exactly the same vehicle with a downrated licence - and you can even pull a trailer bringing you back to the same weight overall.

But as to assessing one's own ability to drive - where I live on the south coast there are numerous people who are clearly 'past it'. I do not believe for one moment that when they have to fill in their health declaration every 3 years (being over 70) that most of them would be honest about their state of health.

94% of drivers assess their own driving as above average - that tells you something!

Incidentally, I had to give up my licence for 3 months due to a stroke - I was very lucky and made a really good recovery. But the eye test in particular, was very stringent - there is no way I could have independently assessed my own field of vision. If it hadn't been OK I'd have wouldn't have found out when I failed to see something.


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## tourangang (Jul 26, 2008)

Annsman

do you know what motor neurone disease is?

it is a muscle wasting disease - you brain function is not affected at all - even when the disease has spread to the point where you are a paraplegic.

at the moment - only my left had is mildly affected - at the moment i only have difficulty using the handbrake in a car - but in most vans its on the Rhs anyway.

incidently i have spoken to DVla, and i need to get for D2 and get my Gp fill in form D4.

john


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Exactly as I said : the medics will assess whether you're fit to drive a larger vehicle according to documented criteria. For me, that's entirely reasonable and it shouldn't be a self-certification exercise.

Paul


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## tourangang (Jul 26, 2008)

totally agree


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