# What is the law regarding drinking and having keys on u



## Middlepits (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi all, i would like to know the laws regarding drinking alcohol and being in the motorhome. I know that if you are in a car with car keys on you and you have been drinking alcohol that the police can have you for drink driving (even if the keys are not in the ignition ) so what if you have had a meal and some alcohol and came back to your camper (to sleep) obviously you would have the keys on you so do the same laws apply?


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Are you on the highway or on a site ?

If on highway you can be charged with Drunk in charge I believe.(you can not be charged with drink driving as you are not driving)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I suggest you do a search for this one, it has been covered in depth several times, Alan.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

There have been a number of posts on this issue.

basically it has to be proved that there was a likelyhood of you driving. You DO NOT have to prove you were not going to drive. If tucked up in bed thats fairly good evidence.

Also you cannot be convicted of drink driving if you are not "driving or attempting to drive" The offence is being "Drunk in charge" the main difference being a DIC conviction does not carry a compulsory disqualification !!!

Check out the previous threads! for further information.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

I work on the assumption that if I am on the highway ( Marine Parade)I keep to the drink drive limit.
Gary


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

greygit said:


> I work on the assumption that if I am on the highway ( Marine Parade)I keep to the drink drive limit.
> Gary


I go one better than that, if I am driving, I don't drink !!

Just a question, do you know what the drink drive limit is ? ok 2 questions, and how can you measure it ?


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Best is to not drink until on site.

I understand that if you are clothed with the keys in your pocket and parked in a layby then you are likely to be charged.

If however you are undressed in bed and the keys are "put away" indicating that they are not "ready for use" then you are unlikely to be charged.

But at the end of the day it all depends on the mood of the copper!


C.


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## Nauplia (Sep 30, 2007)

*Drunk in Charge*

There is a stated case on this one.

All you have to show is that on the balance of probability, you were not intending to drive under the influence. Note that is the balance of probability and not the more normal 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I think that if you were shut up for the night in a motorhome and had consumed some alcohol - sufficient to put you over the legal limit - then it would be a very foolish court that decided in favour of the prosecution. A court that would be very open to appeal.

One thing to watch is if stopped and challenged by the Police is when you admit to intending to drive again. Make sure that there is sufficient time for the alcohol content of your blood to return back below the legal limit. this makes sense anyway.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Nauplia, can you quote the case?

Of course, if it is in a Court of First Instance (Magistrates or Crown Court) the case has no precedent and is not binding on any other court, although it may be pesuasive to another court.

Geoff


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## Middlepits (Nov 1, 2009)

*law regarding alcohol*

Many thanks to all of you for your knowledge, i NEVER drink drive and to be honest rarely drink i was only asking incase me and hubby go for a meal one night before retiring to bed , i think it is not worth the risk though so i will stick to shloer!!!!!( a non alcoholic drink)


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Drinking*

Hi

My slight concern when staying on a site such as the CCC Boroughbridge, is that the river will rise and the site will be evacuated. This potentially could lead to driving under the influence after having had a few for medicinal purposes. The same could arise at the CC York, CCC Keswick to name another couple of potential flood plains.

Russell


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

If you have a swivel on the drivers seat, if it is turned round I would say that a police officer would be pretty crazy to think that you are going to drive.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

*Re: law regarding alcohol*



Middlepits said:


> Many thanks to all of you for your knowledge, i NEVER drink drive and to be honest rarely drink i was only asking incase me and hubby go for a meal one night before retiring to bed , i think it is not worth the risk though so i will stick to shloer!!!!!( a non alcoholic drink)


I think your very wise, leave the drinking until on site is always the best policy. I go one further in that I never drink the day before we depart for another place.

Wobby


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## EuropeanCampers (Mar 28, 2008)

Would be an interesting one if you were parked up for the night, said bobby knocked on your door suggesting a breath test, and you told him to "sod off."

I doubt he's any power of entry to your "home."


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> basicaly it has to be proved that there was a likelyhood of you driving.


That should be easy enough to get around. If you drink so much that you cant stand up - just ask the plod if HE could drive in your condition! :lol:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

GEH007 said:


> Would be an interesting one if you were parked up for the night, said bobby knocked on your door suggesting a breath test, and you told him to "sod off."
> 
> I doubt he's any power of entry to your "home."


I hope MrPlodd, Dougie or Theawin (not sure of that spelling) will come along and give us an opinion on that comment. My guess is that it would not work, Alan.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

You could say to the bobby " I cant possibly drive after drinking so much as I can't seem to get the key in the lock, I have tried and given up"


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

GEH007 said:


> Would be an interesting one if you were parked up for the night, said bobby knocked on your door suggesting a breath test, and you told him to "sod off."
> 
> I doubt he's any power of entry to your "home."


Unfortunately you are wrong on that one, under certain circumstances we do have the power to enter your home with force if necessary, and I have done many times. 
But really do we have to discuss this subject all over again?? (not being rude or unhelpful here) 
I think one of the first replies suggested a search for previous post as it has been covered many times. 
No officer is going to be bothered if you break open a bottles or two if you really are parked up for the night. 
The real risk for anybody is driving the day after, this is something we all should be concerned with. 
James


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

First things first. There's a great little button up the top of every page, which looks like







. Use it. :wink:

Secondly, have a look

>> here <<

>> here << (indirectly about being in drink & in charge)

and

>> here <<

Dougie.


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## Oil-on-the-Road (Oct 16, 2009)

CliveMott said:


> I understand that if you are clothed with the keys in your pocket and parked in a layby then you are likely to be charged.
> 
> C.


Of course - if you are naked and parked in a layby, you might get charged with something else.....

Sorry, I'll go away now


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## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

The courts and insurers will view D.I.C and D.D as the same thing.

In reality, your best option would be to put your keys in your roof box/garage or similar and lock them there. If you do not have the keys on you, or within reach then it is doubtful that the intention to drive could be proven. I was told many years ago, by a policeman, that the safest thing to do was have the keys outside the vehicle - he stated 'under a wheel, or up the exhaust' If you have a secure roof box or similar storage, then probably best to use that when wild camping.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Just be sensible, don't park alongside an A road where a dozing polish lorry driver who has been driving for 50 hours without a break will veer off and wipe you out while your sleeping. Either find a layby right off the road or a quite place by the side of the road. Set up for the night, legs down, blinds up, PJ's on, bed made etc. Take the keys out of the ignition, spin you seat round or fold it down and no problems. 
James


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## Mick757 (Nov 16, 2009)

*Re: Drinking*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> My slight concern when staying on a site such as the CCC Boroughbridge, is that the river will rise and the site will be evacuated. This potentially could lead to driving under the influence after having had a few for medicinal purposes. The same could arise at the CC York, CCC Keswick to name another couple of potential flood plains.
> 
> Russell


Id say youd have to be drunk already to contemplate staying at one of these sites when theres so much water about. You may not get the chance to 'evacuate' drunk or otherwise, given the speeds some of these flood waters rise.
It was only a few months ago i was chatting about flooding to the owner of Naburn Lock CC, and he was telling me how far up and how quick the water can cover the low end of the site.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Quite right about reading all previous threads.

For those of you who have not I think the most useful and succinct (try saying that after 2 bottles) was given by a Magistrate-sorry did not make note of name.

The basic logic is that the Courts will take a reasonable view on the facts: the CPS know that and will only prosecute if there is a reasonable chance of a conviction: the police will only put cases to the CPS on similar logic and this goes through the thinking of the PC on the beat who does not want to be hauled up before his boss for wasting time.

Re the post referring to a PC who suggested putting keys 'under a wheel', was the mickey-taking by the poster or the PC ???

RE keys in ignition: there must be many of us who use base-vehicle radio/tape/cassette while parked - needs key in ignition! maybe needs re-wiring to leisure battery!

Just Jottings From The Jungle

Geoff


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## Middlepits (Nov 1, 2009)

Thanks for all your posts.

I was asking on behalf of my hubby as when we stop in the evening / or get home he likes a drink to relax.
I was Just checking on legalities as we have only just bought a motorhome. 
I should have searched previous postings but I haven`t really written much online before and don`t have much experience of forums.
My husband has shown me how to use the search.
I couldn`t find anything definitive on it.
So searched on google yahoo etc, then on local police websites.

To be charged with being. Drunk in charge basically

You have to be Drunk  
.
You will have to be in the vehicle or approaching it, in possesion of the keys ( or a means of starting?driving the vehicle they do not have to be in the ignition ) and the officer observing should have cause to believe intent to drive.

Which is fair enough if you intend to drink and drive you should be banned.

But if you don`t.

Most police officers will charge you as it is up to the courts to decide intent.

This is not meant to be derogatory to the police.

If they charge you it is highly unlikely you will get off without a driving ban if you go to court, unless someone else in the motorhome has not been drinking and is insured and licensed to drive the vehicle.
Sorry I answered my own question with a bit of research.
I will use the search in future so thanks to everyone who pointed that out.

If every newbie like me used the search there wouldnt be many posts though. :lol: 

You can also be prosecuted on private property under certain circumstances believe it or not.


This only applies to the uk, no idea about abroad.
Thanks again for the posts.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Middlepits said:


> I should have searched previous postings but I haven`t really written much online before and don`t have much experience of forums.
> My husband has shown me how to use the search.
> I couldn`t find anything definitive on it.


No problem - forums take a bit of getting used to, and the search facility on here is not the easiest in the world!! :roll:

If you want to try again, search for posts by Asprn on the subject of drink and parking.

He is a serving police officer and gave a very clear and definitive answer - probably more than once, since the question comes up at regular intervals.

>> This << is a good thread, and it has some cross references from Spykal on page 2. Should answer the question very comprehensively.

Dave


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Middlepits said:


> I was asking on behalf of my hubby


That old one, eh. 



Middlepits said:


> To be charged with being. Drunk in charge basically You have to be Drunk


Please be careful about what you read, and be even more careful about what you write. :roll: That's the first line you wrote re. your understanding or interpretation of what you've read, and it's quite simply wrong. (I'm leaving it there though - use the Search button  )



Middlepits said:


> Most police officers will charge you as it is up to the courts to decide intent


That's also conjecture. Suspicion of an offence is justified (or not justified) by evidence. Evidence is obtained by investigation. And an investigation is carried out by various means, including questioning (aka an interview). Only after the investigation has been completed, will a decision be taken as to the disposal of the case. "Most" Police officers will not just charge; all Police officers have to follow CPS charging standards, which involves having a Police supervisor or a CPS lawyer (depending on the level of the offence) reviewing the evidence, and a decision being made (e.g. charge/bail back to Police station pending further enquiries/caution/NFA).



Middlepits said:


> This is not meant to be derogatory to the police


lol - if that's as bad as it gets, carry on derogating.  It's not factual though, and therefore probably not helpful (and that's not meant to be derogatory to you).



Middlepits said:


> You can also be prosecuted on private property under certain circumstances believe it or not


And those circumstances are defined in previous posts. 

Dougie.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Never give it a second thought. telling a Police officer to "Sod Off" though is perhaps not a good idea and IMHO not very pleasant. We have the best Police force in the world and I have always found if you are pleasant to them and use common sense then they will recipricate this.

I have sat by the van wildcamping on a Scottish Island just off the road with a beer and chatted to a bobby. He was more interested in the van and where we have been than the fact I was 4 Stellas ahead of him!

Watch the next day though. I think we all should be aware these days of how long it stays in your system. Back in the 90's I had a car crash in the Lake district which wasnt my fault, even had a witness but I was breathalised and found to be just over the limit from the night before (around 9am). Got arrested and Keswick Magistrates threw the book at me! I felt fine that morning and had about 4 pints and 2 or three scotches the night before. I never set off before 12 now the next day and hardly drink if we are moving on.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Beware of Smart Rs's showing off.

Kev.


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## Middlepits (Nov 1, 2009)

A police officer believing you were going to drive a vehicle under the influence ( drink or drugs ) even if you were approaching it would obviously first, speak to you.

If they have a reason to believe you are under the influence and a reason to believe you would drive the motorhome car etc ( keys have to be in your possesion, unless you have a vehicle that does not require them ) they would breath test you therefore providing evidence to refer you to court for prosecution.

Sorry I left the evidence for referal to court info out of my first post this may have caused some confusion.

Also the police obviously have discretion.

I have checked the search facility and read the posts on it thanks.

But my original post and this one are factual.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Sorry if this ihas been said but I am rushing off to daughters today. My concern about drinking of piste is that what happens if you need to move on either because the police what you moved on, or you have parked in a bad place and hooligroins as my mother in law used to say, pester you or a tiger escapes from the zoo just behind your laybye.

You will have to chose between being a meal of losing your licence. 8O


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