# Effect of the 'Joint Report' on UK Ex-pats in EU



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

This thread is intended for discussion by those MHF Members who are living in EU countries, or those who may be contemplating it.

Please do not let it descend into a general Brexit thread.

After the agreement today (8th December 2017) between the UK and the EU Negotiators they jointly issued the following 'Joint Report', which contains details in pages 1-6 of the recipricol rights of UK and EU citizens.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf

[EDIT] Just found this on BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42279408

It will need some digesting, which I have not fully done myself, and it leaves open quite a few ends - e.g. what rules individual EU governments will make.

I hope this thread will be a useful place to discuss the issues as it affects those of us in the EU.

Of course many of our circumstances will be different according to our current statuses in our Host Countries.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

As the article says the devil will be in the detail and some aspects have yet to be discussed.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Double disaster'
British in Europe, a group which represents UK citizens in the EU, said both sides had "negotiated away" their rights.
Jane Golding, chair woman of the group, said the deal was "a double disaster" for Britons in the EU.

This doesn't sound too promising Geoff. 

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> As the article says the devil will be in the detail and some aspects have yet to be discussed.


Alan

Yes the article says that, but the 'Joint Report' goes into a lot of detail, if not all.

Did you read it?

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I got as far as page 3 Geoff and wondered who got paid to make it all this complicated and pointless. But thanks all the same.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Did I read it? Are you seriously asking if I've just commented on something I couldn't be arsed to read?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Did I read it? Are you seriously asking if I've just commented on something I couldn't be arsed to read?


Alan

You were commenting on the article.

My question was whether you had read the 'Joint Report'

Geoff


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Geoff just heard what sounded like a pretty good summary of the agreement re citizens rights on PM roughly 25 mins in. It was a detailed analysis of the rights of EU nationals here and an assurance that there were fully reciprocal. 

Dick


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I agreed with the article, that did not preclude my having read the report.

You've now asked twice whether I commented on something I hadn't read.

The first thing I did this morning was to read the report, though I've no idea why I need to say so. I'd hardly have been able to comment on it had I not read it. Doing that would qualify me to be for a job in Government, well except that the document under discussion does actually exist.

If the thread is open only to replies only from those who've read it I don't suppose there'll be many contributions. 

It's vague, deliberately, and dry, unavoidably and leaves several very important questions unanswered, such as what exactly will happen in the longer term.


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## bc109 (Sep 17, 2016)

*UK Expat bit*

I've only studied the part of the document concerning our current life in Spain.
Paragraph 16 is interesting because countries can require "persons concerned" to apply for and obtain residency.
To our present knowledge, there are numbers of UK folks living in Spain who are not legally resident.
To achieve residency not only must the required paperwork be completed, but also tax declarations be made to the Spanish hacienda each year. Many people are reluctant to do the latter. Many do not realise that the second requirement is necessary.
Perhaps UK folks living in other parts of the EU may be similarly concerned.

Para 31: As pensioners are we "economically inactive". That's funny; who keeps spending my pension?
Bill


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree with bc109 and the comments about the devil will be in the detail.

Yes there is an agreement BUT individual governments will be able to set the height and procedures that expats will have to jump through and there is nothing in those pages or the BBC analysis that hints at how high the barriers will be set as it has not been discussed yet AFAIK by the individual governments and I doubt that will end up as a level playing field and neither will the cost be equitable throughout the 28 countries.

There are a number of claues where individual variation will be permitted.

I will not be throwing my hat into the air.............................. yet.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Here's more information. I've also read this Geoff:

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com.es/2017/12/the-beginning-of-end-citizens-rights-in.html


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes Alan, lots of words again but still many supositions. Nothing concrete at all.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I found the final few paragraphs most enlightening Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I have just written a long analysis of both the Report and EU Directive 2004/38 EC, to which the Report refers, and which there are many details.

I was on the last line when a Windows update shut the computer down without a chance to delay it.

I lost it all. Sod it.

I doubt whether I will have the energy to repeat it, even tomorrow, so you might be losers. At least I know what was in my reearch and analysis.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

What rotten luck Geoff. Does your computer have an autosave function? If not it's a good idea to save at the end of each page if not more frequently.


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## Tavira (Mar 18, 2011)

*Living in the eu*

I have been living in Portugal for nearly twenty years, and as I see it it's all going to end with that one word Residency, I think for those people who are now keeping one foot in two countries, and trying to keep the best of both worlds, it will get more tricky, I became a Resident fifteen years ago, and have not had a problem with it, for that I can vote in the local elections ie for our local Mayor, also I get full medical cover under the Portuguese nhs.The down side is I have to make my tax declaration here, and pay more tax than I would in the uk, But that's price I am prepaired to pay for what I see as a very nice place to live. Cheers Brian...


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Tavira said:


> I have been living in Portugal for nearly twenty years, and as I see it it's all going to end with that one word Residency, I think for those people who are now keeping one foot in two countries, and trying to keep the best of both worlds, it will get more tricky, I became a Resident fifteen years ago, and have not had a problem with it, for that I can vote in the local elections ie for our local Mayor, also I get full medical cover under the Portuguese nhs.The down side is I have to make my tax declaration here, and pay more tax than I would in the uk, But that's price I am prepaired to pay for what I see as a very nice place to live. Cheers Brian...


Yep, mee too.!!

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> What rotten luck Geoff. Does your computer have an autosave function? If not it's a good idea to save at the end of each page if not more frequently.


I cannot find one on the computer nor in Firefox.

Anyway would it work when I am writing a reply on a forum hosted elsewhere? I don't know.

In future I will writ in Word and save there and then copy/paste

Geoff


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

nicholsong said:


> I cannot find one on the computer nor in Firefox.
> 
> *Anyway would it work when I am writing a reply on a forum hosted elsewhere? I don't know.*
> 
> ...


As far as a forum post is concerned I would have said no, until I noticed this handy functionality whilst drafting a post on motorhomer.com.
It auto-saves as you type. :smile2:

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> I cannot find one on the computer nor in Firefox.
> 
> Anyway would it work when I am writing a reply on a forum hosted elsewhere? I don't know.
> 
> ...


Ah right, sorry, assumed you'd be doing it in a word processing programme.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Geoff, try this as it could be just what you need.......................... .

www.macrium.com/reflectfree

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

In the absence of Geoff's analysis this may help: https://publiclawforeveryone.com/20...ent-deliver-what-the-government-has-promised/

I haven't read it yet but will later.


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