# Any particular brands of lead acid batteries the best ?



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

Just debating replacing my well used battery bank,

After reading sterlings useful guide about which batteries are best and why i intend to replace them with std lead acid leisure batteries.

Euramobil have said they can swap them out for their standard 105Ah batteries for €137 each but that seems a tad expensive to me.

Are there any brands that are considered better and how much do they cost in the UK for a 105Ah ?


----------



## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

Hi Nuke,
I fitted a second battery to match up the original in the Rapido, which was a 90 amp Varta costing £69 last year. Seems to be working fine and not had to add any water. We use the telly and DVD quite a bit when not on hookup, and I we are not careful about what we use 12volt wise. No problems with long weekends away at shows etc.
Look on site for more info.

www.varta-automotive.com

Their leisure batteries are called semi-traction, click on technical for range.
Colin


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Hi Nuke,

I have mentioned this before on this site,

I bought 2 new bog standard lead acid 95 amp/hour batteries for my boat 4 years ago from a shop in Sevilla, they cost *36*_ euros each and we used them as live aboards (full time) on our boat, the batteries are still in the boat which is now in the UK and still giving good service.

If you are passing through Sevilla again I can give you directions on how to get to the shop if you want.

Doug..._


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Nuke

Depending on where they are kept, do they share internal/living air space? If so it would be a good idea to buy the Leisure type (as you have read most probably not different internally, but the caps will not be the venting kind and there will be a vent tube to steer the gases outside of the vehicle.

If the batteries are in an external locker then ordinary automotive will usually be a few quid Cheaper.

Price UK

110 ah Leisure £40 to £45 

110 ah Starter £35 to £40


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

I'll try and answer the question you ask next time !


George


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Nuke
> 
> Depending on where they are kept, do they share internal/living air space? If so it would be a good idea to buy the Leisure type (as you have read most probably not different internally, but the caps will not be the venting kind and there will be a vent tube to steer the gases outside of the vehicle.


So how do you account for the millions if not multi-millions of boats that use lead acid batterys and these include the RNLI, military, police, Royal navy, uncle-tom-cobbly-an-all with no ill effects???

And I would add that boats/ships are a dam sight more air tight than M/H,s

Doug...


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

Leisure batteries are lead Acid too

Sorry Doug but what you are advocating is dangerous, read the link below

http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles/battery_enclosures.htm

Dont take my word for it heres a link to 16,000 articles on why batteries need venting

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-10,RNWE:en&q=Battery+venting+Hydrogen

George


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*Leisure Battery*

Hi I've just bought a Elecsol 110ah Carbon Firbre / lead acid battery from http://www.batmanuk.com/ cost £94 including delivery & 5yr guarantee. Mainly bought for it's smaller in size than other makes so it would fit under seat only 190mm high


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

We were talking batteries back in November and the subject of the dangerous nature of Lead Acid batteries came up, George posted his concers then as he has done now, I posted the following reply and as I am sure you will agree personal experience is worth something, all of the following is clipped from that thread to save you looking for it or me re writing it :lol: :-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_
When my son was in his teens we used to race model electric cars, his cousin ,my nephew, always came with us and had his own cars and recharge set up at home. For model race cars this involves recharging nicads from a 12volt Leisure battery. What happened we are not too sure about but my 13 year old nephew came home from school, to an empty house, and went straight to the garage to see how his leisure battery was charging for the nights race outing. He must have disconnected the crocodile clips without swiching off the charger....we do not know to this day how he got away with no major injuries, the explosion was heard 4 doors away and the next door folks came to his assitance but he was amazing, he had got himself to the kitchen sink and washed all the acid from his face and clothes. He had a few burns from the acid but was Ok, clearing up the garage was a longer job! Bits of the battery were scattered all over and some damage was done to the Austin 7 which lived in the garage!

As you so rightly say 12 volt lead acid batteries can be a real danger.

I wonder how many of our Motorhomefacts memembers are aware of this hazard.

Mike

P.S. when we had our van there was no breather tube fitted to the battery, I guess this is the same on many vans. Worth checking ..if you are reading this thread!!!!
_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and for what it is worth , my way with batteries is to buy any known make with a guarantee, at the most reasonable price possible, then replace them regularily. IMHO where lead acid batteries are concerned paying thro the nose for a "possibly" higher quality or special technology is false economy.

Mike


----------



## BrianR (May 1, 2005)

I can recommend the following supplier of good cheap batteries. Only a two year guarantee, but at the price they are still a good buy:- http://countybattery.co.uk/


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Mike 

Yep their are lots of vans like that, no venting, with the usual poor chargers fitted it does decrease the odds of any problem, BUT even the poor charger (Zig) etc could still cause a serious Explosion.

Many people are fitting Halfords own brand chargers after seeing advice on another Forum dealing with DIY motor caravans and this type of charger considerably increases the risk of battery explosion. One person risking it is, one too many, bench chargers are for BENCH charging.


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brian

At £55 they are dear, at my local caravan shop they are £45 and I managed to buy 10 at £35 each.

At most shows a 110 is £37 or less.

George


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> Elecsol 110ah Carbon Firbre / lead acid battery


Heard good things about these, any other comments on elecsol batteries, and whats the deal with carbon fibre ?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Dave,

I have the same, though I think 2*100 rather than 2*110. They fit under the driver's seat and offer a higher capacity per unit volume than most lead acids. The carbon fibre is simply plate strengthening I believe, as in AGM.

In terms of value-for-money recommendations, personally I'd either go for a cheap but known-brand matched leisure batteries, or pay the premium for these Elecsols.

In your situation, wanting a reasonable life but deep-cycling batteries hard and frequently, I'd try Elecsols next.

Dave


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Elecsols are better at taking abuse, treat em right and the lead acids are far better value for money.

They require lower Charging voltage so take longer to charge tha standard lead acid.

Save the extra cost of elecsols and buy a decent charger.


Would you buy a tougher dog, just so you could kick it without harming it as much ?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

George,

Well if a tougher dog had a better chance of survival in the expected environment, yes 

Dave has a decent 4 stage charger in his Victron. The issue is he wildcamps, has a demanding electrical energy budget and obviously wants to minimise dependence on using the generator. Maybe a larger battery bank is the answer to minimise the frequency of deep cycling, but other than on self-build this can be awkward to arrange.

Dave


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dave

Quote

"Dave has a decent 4 stage charger in his Victron"


Then lead acid are better and cheaper and will charge quicker (which minimises genny usage when charging)

Elecsols wont help when wild camping, I dont know Daves habits when camping but if its :

on site for a day every few days, Lead acid good Charger

Most wild travel every 1-2 days Lead acid Smart alternator regulator

trying to wild camp more often than not, Smart alternator reg, High ampage Mains charger, Lead acid batteries (to minimse genny usage), or add a little Solar or wind genny.

If you have a caravan or motorhome thats hardly used and Zig powered and you cant be bothered to look after battery over winter, then a elecsol may save you renewing battery as often.

Just buying one lead acid and a decent charger costs less than one elecsol.

With well treated batteries there is no reason at all to waste your money on elecsol.


George


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi all
> 
> Leisure batteries are lead Acid too
> 
> ...


You did not answer the question, How come millions of lead acid batterys are in use in a marine enviroment that cant be vented to the outside but do not have a problem??

I know but you obviously dont.

Doug...


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

ok Doug can we keep this civil, and why not tell us if there is something we need to know concerning battery safety


----------



## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

> nukeadmin
> Site Admin
> 
> Joined: Sep 29, 2003
> ...


Hi Dave,

Regarding the Elecosl Battery, I did ask about these a while ago, the only negative thing that came to light was poor aftersales, see Don's comments on this link.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/postx3438-0-0.html

Hope this helps.

MHS...Rob


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

well i have as Dave stated a decent charger already, i have 150W of solar panel power and a generator. I am trying to improve my longevity without resorting to generator though.

I currently have approx 270 Ah battery bank of std issue Euramobil batteries (Lead Acid)

I have limited space for a larger physical bank, therefore i want the biggest bang for buck i can get.

The battery size in situ at present is 3 X Batteries of approx 355mm Length X 200mm High X 175mm Width.

I want replacements of the highest Ah i can fit


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Doug

Quote 

I know but you obviously dont. 

So why dont you just tell us?


By the way the reason I didnt answer that, is because its not true as far as I am aware, hence I gave a link to 16,000 articles showing why battery gases are dangerous and need venting correctly.


Instead of sniping, why not add something to the discussion.........


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Inasmuch as the submarine is so dependent on the batteries it should be self evident that extreme care and attention is devoted to the batteries. During each watch it is the duty of electrician on watch to go below deck in each of the battery compartments to sample the gravity levels of the batteries. This is particularly of prime importance during a battery charge.

During a battery charge, pure hydrogen gas is emitted from each battery. Ventilation tubes cover each of the batteries and the gas is drawn off and vented overboard so that no explosive atmosphere is permitted to exist in the interior of the boat.

http://www.diodon349.com/US_Subs/WWII_Fleet_Class_Submarine.htm

Even model toys need Protecting

Never charge batteries in an enclosure, like inside the submarine. Even sealed cells produce small amounts of gas when charged. The gas is highly explosive and can cause severe damage to the model and/or bodily harm!

http://www.subconcepts.com/SubGuidePages/Batteries.html

Marine safety law, were you exempt Doug?

19.5 Battery Ventilation

19.5.1 All rooms, lockers and boxes for storage batteries shall be arranged, and ventilated to avoid accumulation of flammable gas; batteries arranged in two or more tiers, shall have not less than 5 cm space, front and back, of all shelves, for circulation of air; and each tier or shelf shall be separated by a distance of at least 21 cm measured from the top of the bottom accumulator to the bottom of the shelf or tier immediately over.

19.5.2 Natural ventilation may be provided for batteries if ducts can be run directly from the top of the room to the open air above, with no part of the duct inclined more than 45° from the vertical; if natural ventilation is impracticable, mechanical exhaust ventilation shall be provided with exhaust at the top of the room and adequate openings for an inlet provided near the floor of battery rooms or the bottom of lockers or boxes.

19.5.3 The quantity of air expelled from battery rooms containing vented type batteries, if expelled by mechanical ventilation, shall be at least equal to:

Q = 110 x I x n

where
Q = quantity of expelled air in litres per hour;
I = maximum charging current during gas formation, or 25% of the maximum obtainable charging current of the facility,which ever is the greater;
n = number of cells in series.

19.5.4 Battery lockers shall be ventilated similarly to battery rooms by a duct led from the top of the locker to the open air by an exhaust ventilation duct, but in machinery spaces and similar well?ventilated compartments the duct may terminate not less than l m above the top of the locker.

19.5.5 Deck boxes for the storage of batteries shall be provided with a duct from the top of the box, terminating at least 1.2 m above in a goose-neck, mushroom-head or the equivalent, to prevent entrance of water; the entire deck box including openings for ventilation shall be sufficiently weathertight to prevent entrance of spray or rain.

19.5.6 Systems for mechanical ventilation of battery rooms shall be independent of ventilation systems for other spaces.

19.5.7 Any fan motor associated with a duct used to remove the air from a battery room shall be placed external to the duct unless it is certified safe for use in atmospheres containing hydrogen.

19.5.8 Fans for battery spaces shall be so designed as to render sparking impossible in the event of the impeller tips touching the fan casing.

19.5.9 Mechanical ventilation for battery rooms, battery lockers and battery boxes shall be fitted with an alarm, at the main control station, which will indicate loss of ventilation.

So to answer your Question, no Batteries should not be left unvented in marine enviroments (or any other that are likely to cause danger) and I dont believe they are.


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

i have found the elecsol batteries priced as follows:-

Elecsol 125 Ah Leisure Battery 
(344mm L x 172mm W x 235mm H )
£ 100.00 +vat

Can anyone better that and if so url please


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Any lead acid leisure battery is better £40 ish

Nip into nearest caravan place

George


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well "better" is an overall subjective judgement assigning weights to the various pros & cons.

I can't better that price, Dave, though can match it including delivery to UK mainland.
http://www.12voltz.fsnet.co.uk/batteries.htm

For your particular type of use the Elecsols will give you three advantages:
1) Higher energy density.
2) Improved ability to withstand deeper discharging without damage.
3) Emergency starting of engine with less risk of battery damage (cold cranking capability).

These advantages remain irrespective of your charging capabilities. It is simply whether they are worth, TO YOU, the price premium.

Dave


----------



## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Don't know about Elecsol (sound overpriced to me) but ABS 110amp Leisure lead acids with 2year gaurantee, GRP seperators, condition indicator and a vent tube are £39 inc vat from East Coast Leisure, so at that rate if you needed to replace at say 2.5 years that's still less than half the price of the Elecsol's, in fact you could almost buy three for the price of one = 6years warranty, Hmmmm!


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dave

My Local caravan shop had a battery fail on a 3.5 tonne van, as a get by they put a leisure battery in, its still running 3 years later, so thats the CCA out of the way.

I already mentioned its only advantage abuse withstanding, but I think treating your batteries better and having a full fast charge far outweighs the elecsols

what does it do to make it worth three times more?

will it last three times longer ?

Maybe if a lead acid and elecsol are both abused.

Looked afterwell, I cant see it lasting 3 times longer, in fact charged and discharged well and I would axpect the lead acid to at least match, if not exceed the life of an elecsol.


Size wise same as Lead acid and only slightly lighter.

Geo


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Doug

Why do you repeatedly come on the forum here, claim that I am wrong, with no evidence at all as usual, disregard of all the evidence presented that I am not and then just clam up

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/postx4690-0-15.html

Here is one of* several *threads where you claim superior knowledge, but are unable to actually follow it up with any useful info.


----------



## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dave

I assume by longivity you mean away from mains power.

That will be governed by 3 things

Size of Battery bank 3 lead acids 110 amphour gives 165 ah to play with

with solar at 150w one can only assume its not enough (otherwise you would not be considering other options) However this is prolonging your wild status.

If you travel regularly a smart alternator regulator is one answer, one or two hours driving every other day or so will exceed the input from your solar panel.

Using Elecsol will increase the amount of amp hours available, because they can be discharged lower than 50% without as MUCH damage, your still harming it but it will survive this abuse a bit longer than a(normal) lead acid BUT it costs far more, the Charging is slower (so genny will be on longer to recharge) 

The 125 rate is at slow discharge rate and is a function of perkeuts rather than any great increase in capacity, where two capacities are shown the higher one only applies if the discharge rate is extremely low ie forget using an invertor etc.

How long do you last wild camping now? and how much longer do you want?

EDIT changed the sentance re Smart alternators to every other day.


----------



## 88726 (May 9, 2005)

hi guys
many thanks to brian r for the link here , just bought my new 85 ah leisure battery for £40 with free delivery .  havent seen better even on ebay .
many thanks
kenny+stella


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

George have you ever built a motorhome yourself! And then used it to see if all your very useful information works?


----------



## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Colins Caravans, Bath Road Reading, sale this weekend. I have bought new Green Power 85 amp/hr battery for £24.95, I thought that was a good price! I think the 110 amp/hr is £34.95.

2 litre Thetford blue + 1.5 litre Aquareinse at £9.98!

I dont know when the sale ends.

www.colinscaravans.com

No sale details on web site, I am afraid.

John 8)


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I had 4 x 110ah leisure batteries and 270 watts of Solar panels (2 x 110 + 50). I had enough power for all my computing and TV/Satellite needs excepting during dark winters. I then had to run the Generator for 1 to 2 hours in the evening to help replenish the batteries.


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*Leisure Battery*

All data on Elecsol Batteries can be found here athttp://www.elecsol.com/html/endorsement.html thats if anyone's interested in them.


----------

