# Over 60 English bus passes not valid in Wales



## rocky58

just got on bus today at kinmel bay to go into rhyl.Driver said can't use the english bus pass.Asked him cost of fare 2 adults and a dog £5 one way.
said I'll walk.
There and back 3 miles would have cost me more than campsite fee per night £9
put me off coming to wales again been spoilt by engish free bus travel


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## chasper

This wont be a popular reply, but i think they should only apply to the area of the council that issued them.


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## JockandRita

*Re: over 60 english bus passes not valid in wales*



rocky58 said:


> just got on bus today at kinmel bay to go into rhyl.Driver said can't use the english bus pass.Asked him cost of fare 2 adults and a dog £5 one way.
> said I'll walk.
> There and back 3 miles would have cost me more than campsite fee per night £9
> put me off coming to wales again been spoilt by engish free bus travel


And likewise, apparently bus passes issued in Wales are not valid in England either.
When Rita and I were getting on a bus in Brean, the lady before us was told that her Welsh pass was not valid.

On a funnier note, it was a double decker bus, and when I gave the driver a tenner for two adult returns to Weston-Super-Mare, he said "sorry, I haven't got any change". I said, "your joking, the bus if full". "Yes, he said, but no one is paying", and as I looked round, it was full of pensioners, with standing room only. :lol: :lol: :lol:



Chasper said:


> This wont be a popular reply, but i think they should only apply to the area of the council that issued them. Surprised


As a non qualifier, I disagree. I think that any over 60's bus pass issued by a UK authority, should be valid nationwide, on local routes.
I also believe that by the time Rita and I do qualify, the concession will no doubt have been withdrawn. 8O

Regards,

Jock.


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## zulurita

I also think the bus pass should be valid nationwide.

Because Maggie Thatcher removed the earnings related link to our state pension and subsequent governments have not so far restored it our state pensions are low compared to France, Germany etc.

So any help towards living in retirement is welcome. After all councils do not care when they put UP the council tax, GAS, Electricity, Water etc do not care really if you are a pensioner on low income.

This years rise in the state pension is derisory. At least my friends was.

Lets face it less than £2 a week is an insult! With the way everything rises I would have thought a rise of £5 a week minimum is required!


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## locovan

I agree that the bus pass should be used anywhere but I do think the Goverment should pay for it (as an extra to our pension) not the local council.
As all the seaside Councils have a huge bill to find each summer when the influx of Pensioners all use them in the Seaside towns.


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## zulurita

Yes I agree it should be centrally funded.


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## rayc

zulurita said:


> Yes I agree it should be centrally funded.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/concessionary/changes/qa

The funding of the free bus pass system is , like anything Gordon Brown has his fingers in, is complex. There is money from Central Government which goes to the councils as part of their transport budgets. The councils pay the bus company a subsidy.
In any event I believe that in the next few years the provision will l be modified and curtailed. I heard that from next year the qualifying age is rising until it eventually reaches 65.

On the radio yesterday was a discussion about a book that has been written by a Conservative MP in which he says that "our" generation has been particularly blessed. He says we have benefited from full employment, high interest on our savings and our houses have made a fortune. The suggestion is that we now fund our Grandchildren through University and use our savings etc for the benefit of our family. We are in the firing line and there will be a steady and determined raid on our wealth to fund the care system and fund pensions.


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## carol

As someone who has a bus pass and finds it very useful - one thing that has always struck me is that I assume councils must just pay a charger per person, per trip, and not for instance a cost for one stop or a cost for 20 stops, which does seem odd.

I would have thought that they could be paid according to how many stops overall per day were clocked by the bus driver or something similar.

We have used the bus for short journeys and long, but I would have thought it was cost effective, especially in towns for be done per stop.

Carol


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## dovtrams

Central funding or the council which issued the pass should pay. It is unfair on local council tax payers in popular holiday areas to be expected to pay for the subsidy given to the the bus companies. Mabye we should use the facilities of the forum and swap our bus passes, eg I am going to the lake district, your coming to Scotland, nobody ever looks at the photo!

dave


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## vardy

I'd better flipping get mine this year, or there'll be uproar! gre: 

On a calmer note, does anyone know which department to contact to enquire about it. Is it the normal bus pass office, or a special one for pensioner passes?


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## locovan

The other thing that has always worried me is how do the bus company's prove how many passengers they carry.
They roll a free ticket off but what stops them rolling off more so as to be able to claim more than they actually carry?

Carol I think they do get paid for stop to stop.
We got on a bus this weekend and asked for West Wittering but as we got there changed our minds.
The driver stopped asked us why wasnt we getting off and where was we going now and we said Birdham so he gave us a ticket for that journey.
Another thing he did (off Topic) was he asked the passengers if they minded a dog coming on board (whats that health and safety again.)


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## locovan

vardy said:


> I'd better flipping get mine this year, or there'll be uproar! gre:
> 
> On a calmer note, does anyone know which department to contact to enquire about it. Is it the normal bus pass office, or a special one for pensioner passes?


We get ours from the Council Office


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## Grizzly

I think each council charges as it wishes. That's what seems to happen anyway.

We get a ticket per journey and there is a system of inspectors who are on the ball when it comes to checking tickets against photos and passes.

In London and Birmingham it seems much more casual and we've not even been issued with tickets for either of these places. On several B'ham trips they didn't even want to see our passes, just waved us through with the rest of the old biddies !

We can't travel until after 9.30am but, if we go to the next local council to us it is after 9am. According to the received wisdom at the Chapel Lane site bus stop the driver will accept your pass whatever time you travel.

In Basingstoke you have a choice of passes or tokens which can be used aganst bus tickets, taxis or rail cards.

Thanks for the info about Wales; I'd no idea we couldn't use our passes there.

G


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## Westkirby01

*Bus passes*

Scottish bus passes can only be used in Scotland. England and Wales are a no no. I believe there are time restrictions in England. Here in Scotland they can be used on any bus and at any time. English OAP's cannot use their passes on Scottish busses. Can't see why not. But there it is.

We got ours via application at the Post office


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## bigfoot

I got my application form from the post office who also checked and returned it for me to the transport authority. It came back in just over a week. When you take it in to the P.O. you need proof of age,passeport,birth cert etc and proof of residence utility bill,council tax,rent book.
In the Merseyside area you can use the pass on the trains as far as Chester and Ormskirk and the ferries as well as th buses.
Happy journeys


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## vardy

Thank you for the replies - I had an idea it was automatic and I just had to check - silly me!!!


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## pippin

Apply to your local council.

Our Gwynedd bus passes are also valid for the Cambrian Coast Line between Machynlleth and Pwllheli - but not in the busy tourist season.

The train conductor issues a ticket for each journey so usage can be monitored.


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## bigfoot

I forgot to mention that you can apply for a pass up to 3 months before your birthday.


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## CliveMott

Just filled in the form for a new bus pass. Never used the one last year but keep it just in case we need to use a bus between camp site and town.
BUT
I believe that they should all be scrapped and an alternative financial advantage given to those of us who would qualify for a bus pass.

For example, how many of us would rather have the cash to purchase our vehicle tax disk instead. Or use Taxi,s or Trains, or just have a good night out!

NOT just a change in the tax code either because those who don,t pay tax would have no advantage. Simple annual CASH (or BACS) payment please then its my choice how I spend it.

C.


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## Grizzly

CliveMott said:


> For example, how many of us would rather have the cash to purchase our vehicle tax disk instead. Or use Taxi,s or Trains, or just have a good night out!
> 
> .


Don't you live in Basingstoke Clive ? You can claim tokens instead of a bus pass and use them for taxis and to buy a Senior rail pass.

G


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## zappy61

*bus pass*

We get ours from the local transport office. We can use them on all the local trains in the West Midlands Area, as far as Coventry in the South (inc NEC) which we used to go to the show.

I think its ridiculous that we can't use them in Wales or Scotland after all we all chuck our taxes in the same pot! The same goes for residential care and prescription charges.

Having different rules in the same union of countries will become more divisive, and as time goes by, we could end up with border controls!. :? :?

Graham


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## CliveMott

Yes Grizzley, you are correct on both counts.
But I don,t ride on trains and used to use the annual tokens to pay for a taxi to Heathrow once a year. But we haven,t done that recently either.

I was looking at the broader picture though. I don,t like means tested gratuities handed out by governments. And bus tokens in either format is means tested in disguise. Those of us who have worked hard with several parallel jobs during our life and put a few bob away get penalised by the tax system. Whereas there are many who have opted out of responsibility all their lives, spend all they have as quick as it comes and rely on the state (Thats US OK!) to bail them out in later life. I know you cannot extract cash from those who have not got it but it does seem patently unfair that those of us who have worked so bl()()dy hard all our lives to be able to enjoy retirement get clobbered by those who have chosen not to bother.

So getting back to the main subject I would prefer the cash to spend on whatever I like. For us that would be perhaps part of the tax for the motorhome.

Why English bus passes don,t work in Wales? well blame devolution for that. I just hope that this arrangement is reciprocated. Then perhaps they will see which side of the bread is buttered.

Rant over

C.


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## rocky58

I think the bus pass age goes up to 61 in april and then rises every year with the womens oap age rising.This also affects other benefits which are age related eg. pension credit


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## Spacerunner

As the buses have to run, empty or full, I can't see that accepting bus pass passengers are costing the bus companies anything.

May be if the bus companies were given a one off payment, in the form of a tax break, to take part in the scheme it would make things easier for local government.


Our English passes were refused in Scotland so I turned it upside down and asked if they accepted Australian passes. Didn't even raise a smile, just a dour eyeballing.


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## ThursdaysChild

Yep ! Basingstoke is where it's at !

Council advertise locations and dates to meet your Concessionary Travel Team. 

c£52 per year if you opt for tokens, which can be used for buses, taxis, purchase of railcards and train journeys commencing in Hampshire.

If you think you are going to use buses to a value of more than £52 in a year, go for the bus pass.

Decisions, decisions.


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## DJP

To most people on here a bus pass is irrelevant. Most people can easily afford to pay the bus fare. Bus passes should be means tested.
What about the 1,000's of people currently unemployed with no state benefits who still have to pay full rates, pay for prescriptions and pay BUS fares wherever they are in the UK just because they have probably worked hard all their life and have saved for their old age and are furtunate enough to have over £10k in savings.
Why give bus passes to pensioners living in £500,000 plus house, on a £30k a year pension. They could pay nearly a years bus travel out of their heating allowance!

Give concessions to the needy and not the wealthy

Got to go and sign on now. The bus is due in 10 minutes where I have to pay £2 each way to get to job centre, out of £64.40 a week!
Or I would do if I was eligible to sign on. I pay full bus fares. I am unemployed with NO income whatsoever.
Rant over, Get me coat and wait for :snipersmile: nfire:


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## Wizzo

ThursdaysChild said:


> c£52 per year if you opt for tokens, which can be used for buses, taxis, purchase of railcards and train journeys commencing in Hampshire.


It's good that you get an option but I think £52 a year is a bit miserly. It would equate to just 17 days travel on Nottingham City buses!

I got my pass in October and use public transport a lot more now. I always thought that public transport is just too expensive in this country, there's little encouragement to get you out of your car.

JohnW


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## Rosbotham

Unpopular thought it'll be on this forum, I have to agree with DJP. The original intent of free transport for OAPs was fine....use spare capacity on buses and the marginal cost of provision of free transport was zero. All too often now, though, there's been a vicious spiral - few full paying passengers left on the bus means fares rise means even fewer, until you get to the stage where everyone on the bus is there under some concession or other.

I've less issues with this, though, than with the senior citizen railpasses. No issue whatsoever with giving discount travel to OAPs. On Virgin at least, though, the railpass also over-rides peak hour restrictions. So I find myself struggling to get a ticket at all for the train I need to be on for business meetings, and when I do so am sat next to a railcard holder who's paying £60-70 return when I'm paying (or to be more accurate my employer's paying) £230 for a seat in the same carriage. That might be just fine & dandy for the OAP, but you can't tell me that it's doing business or the economy any good : it's inevitable that businesses will move to where costs are lower.

Paul


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## bigfoot

Paul,
If you are in education or training Virgin will sell a ticket that is heavily discounted (trainline.com). So you could also be sitting next to Teachers,lecturers and instructors!!


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## Westkirby01

*cost to bus companies*

In Scotland, when the passess were issued the were issued on a cost amount to the bus companies. The bus companies complained that they were losing revenue.

The government altered the system to have each use paid a pro rata of the full fare. Bus companies made a mint. Now the government has altered the system again to an up front payment to the companies regardless of use.

So guess what. The companies are now reducing the routes. (they get paid no matter whether they carry any one or not). The government walla's haven't realised that this is what would happen. We have.

Good job I've never used mine. Nor do I intend to.


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## baldlygo

*Travel in Wales with English Card*

My Oswestry Issued card allowed me to bus to Chirk (to the North) and Welshpool (to the South). I understood this was because of a special arrangement with adjacent cross border authorities. I could not use my card for other ongoing Welsh destinations.

Paul


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## Rosbotham

bigfoot said:


> Paul,
> If you are in education or training Virgin will sell a ticket that is heavily discounted (trainline.com). So you could also be sitting next to Teachers,lecturers and instructors!!


Interesting...I'd noticed that with students, but not the bl00dy teachers as well!! The thing that really irks is they've stopped doing Advance tickets (which were still £100+ single each way...) because the trains are too busy. While still allowing concessions on them.


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## DJP

> My Oswestry Issued card allowed me to bus to Chirk (to the North) and Welshpool (to the South). I understood this was because of a special arrangement with adjacent cross border authorities. I could not use my card for other ongoing Welsh destinations.


As I understand it from my priveledged friends with bus passes :twisted: That if the journey starts in say, England and terminates in say Wales and it is one ride bus, then that is OK. The same I believe applies for the return journey.
Anyone know any more about the age being increased to 61 for entitlement this/next year, then an additional year every year? Based on that, at 58/59 I will not get a bus pass for at least 5 years?


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## rayc

DJP said:


> My Oswestry Issued card allowed me to bus to Chirk (to the North) and Welshpool (to the South). I understood this was because of a special arrangement with adjacent cross border authorities. I could not use my card for other ongoing Welsh destinations.
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it from my priveledged friends with bus passes :twisted: That if the journey starts in say, England and terminates in say Wales and it is one ride bus, then that is OK. The same I believe applies for the return journey.
> Anyone know any more about the age being increased to 61 for entitlement this/next year, then an additional year every year? Based on that, at 58/59 I will not get a bus pass for at least 5 years?
Click to expand...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/concessionary/changes/qa

Table 1 - Dates of Eligibility for Concessionary Bus Passes 
Period within which date of birth falls Day become eligible for concessionary bus pass 
Before and including 5th April 1950 Date of 60th birthday 
6th April 1950 to 5th May 1950 6th May 2010 
6th May 1950 to 5th June 1950 6th July 2010 
6th June 1950 to 5th July 1950 6th September 2010 
6th July 1950 to 5th August 1950 6th November 2010 
6th August 1950 to 5th September 1950 6th January 2011 
And so on...

i.e for every month after 5th April 1950 that you were born the date of eligibilty increases by 1 - 2 months past your 60th birthday!!
If my maths are right if you were born on 6th April 1953 you would not be entitled to your bus pass until you are 63 - it is following the same process as for the incremental rise in pension ages for women to 65.


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## Spacerunner

Come on, it does keep the old codgers off the road in their old Austin 7's nd Ford Anglias.

Its bad enough with them cluttering up the roads in their enormous motorhomes causing traffic chaos.

I say keep the pensioners off the roads and on the buses.

:roll:​


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## dovtrams

DJP said:


> T
> Why give bus passes to pensioners living in £500,000 plus house, on a £30k a year pension. They could pay nearly a years bus travel out of their heating allowance!
> 
> As has been mentioned by others, because we have paid for it through high taxes all of our working lives. You cannot have a society where only the feckless get benefits in the later stages of life. However, I do like the Basingstoke system, then you make up your own mind how to the benefit.
> 
> dave


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## DJP

Oh NO!!!!

At my date of birth I would have got my bus pass in June 2011
It will now be 6th JULY 2012
Another year to wait :big4:


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## zulurita

Looks like I will have to wait until 6th Feb 2011


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## Rosbotham

dovtrams said:


> As has been mentioned by others, because we have paid for it through high taxes all of our working lives.
> 
> dave


Actually, that's a common misconception about how taxes work, and serves well to illustrate why this country's going to h3ll in a handcart.

You didn't pay for your bus pass with high taxes through your working life. Your tax went to pay out for the benefits of the pensioners at the time. That money's long gone. Similarly, your bus pass is being paid for by those who pay taxes today.

If the population is static, that's just dandy. However, in a few years with longer life expectancy and lower birth rates, there'll be far fewer people paying the tax to fund more people who (believe they) have a right for this kind of thing. And the more tax they'll pay, the less they'll have to save for their own retirement so it spirals out of control.

It's a very similar situation for state pensions as well.

Paul


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## rocky58

If tories get in they might scrap bus passes altogether or raise the age


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## Malc

Bus passes work like this: The Govt. gives the County Council a sum of cash based on the population over 60, the CC then apportions the amount to the district councils based on their over 60 population. The company is given an amount based on the pre free pass scheme usage (half fare etc) and this is based on average fares for the route. 
However the company records all fares (singles) electronically on their ticket machines and find that the amount of travel far exceeds the District councils estimate, the Bus Co. than claims X amount for the excess and wins the day. 
The District Council is then out of pocket if the amount exceeds the portion allocated by the County! 
But! If one lives in a rural area, or near to a popular destination or holiday area, the whole exercise falls to bits, if someone in an area bordering the destination area travels to another area (council) the inbound fare is apportioned to the issuing DC but the return journey is apportioned to the other area (council) who have no cash allocation for that person.(Still with me!). 
If you toddle off to say Skeggy on furlough, travel around on your pass, the Lincs CC have to foot the bill, but the cash for your pass is allocated to your home DC. Simples. Lincs CC is out of pocket. 
Basically a good scheme, but badly thought out. 
  Malc


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## sallytrafic

The present government has been accused of being all controlling (possibly justifiably) but when the responsibility for recycling or bus passes is devolved to local government and different authorities do it in different ways 'we' want it to be the same for everyone.... ::lol:

PS I've decided to put a link to my competition on every thread I post to >Here it is- Help for Heroes<


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## dovtrams

Rosbotham said:


> dovtrams said:
> 
> 
> 
> As has been mentioned by others, because we have paid for it through high taxes all of our working lives.
> 
> dave
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that's a common misconception about how taxes work, and serves well to illustrate why this country's going to h3ll in a handcart.
> 
> You didn't pay for your bus pass with high taxes through your working life. Your tax went to pay out for the benefits of the pensioners at the time. That money's long gone. Similarly, your bus pass is being paid for by those who pay taxes today.
> 
> If the population is static, that's just dandy. However, in a few years with longer life expectancy and lower birth rates, there'll be far fewer people paying the tax to fund more people who (believe they) have a right for this kind of thing. And the more tax they'll pay, the less they'll have to save for their own retirement so it spirals out of control.
> 
> It's a very similar situation for state pensions as well.
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...

Paul

You have been reading too much of the popular press, and deserve a degree in stating the bl ing obvious. While I was doing an honours degree in economics, one of our lecturers showed us a newspaper cutting about the population getting older and who was going to pay for all of their pensions etc. It was dated 1949!! I am well aware that taxes in this country pay for contemporary costs, however, as I said you cannot have a fair society if only those who spent all of their money and did not look to the future get looked after by the state; and I do not think a bus pass is asking too much. The other obvious solution is that everyone looks after themselves! What a horrible thought.

dave


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## Rosbotham

No thanks, already got a Masters in Engineering and an MBA...don't want or need another degree.

Whilst your "those who save get nothing while the feckless get all the state benefits" has merits, you'll never convince me that it's right to witness the spectacle of people who drive £50k+ motorhomes moaning above the shortcomings of their free bus pass, while councils have to cut services for people who cannot afford to pay their way in order to fund this.


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## sallytrafic

Rosbotham said:


> No thanks, already got a Masters in Engineering and an MBA...don't want or need another degree.
> 
> Whilst your "those who save get nothing while the feckless get all the state benefits" has merits, you'll never convince me that it's right to witness the spectacle of people who drive £50k+ motorhomes moaning above the shortcomings of their free bus pass, while councils have to cut services for people who cannot afford to pay their way in order to fund this.


Agreed and what about the expats claiming their winter fuel allowance. (subject of a Jeremy Vine a few days ago).


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## karlb

late to the debate.....but is there any justifiable reason why anybody should get a free bus pass?

karlb


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## karlb

sallytrafic said:


> Rosbotham said:
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks, already got a Masters in Engineering and an MBA...don't want or need another degree.
> 
> Whilst your "those who save get nothing while the feckless get all the state benefits" has merits, you'll never convince me that it's right to witness the spectacle of people who drive £50k+ motorhomes moaning above the shortcomings of their free bus pass, while councils have to cut services for people who cannot afford to pay their way in order to fund this.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed and what about the expats claiming their winter fuel allowance. (subject of a Jeremy Vine a few days ago).
Click to expand...

at least when they are abroad they cant use there free buss pass :lol:


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## rocky58

Bought my 32K motorhome after putting in 48years of my life at WORK
Now is payback time.I went straight from school at 15 into work and night school after work and worked 7days a week a lot of the time,no uni then 
or 37hours


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## Oil-on-the-Road

One good reason why some benefits aren't means tested is that administering the test and policing the system would be more expensive than letting everyone have it.


Steve


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## Rosbotham

That's true enough, but I've never really understood why government choose to overcomplicate things. E.g. why not send a buspass out (indeed send a cheque for the winter fuel payment) from HRMC to everyone over a given age, paying less than a given amount in tax? No means testing needed per se, just derive the information from tax paid, which is a reasonable proxy for income. Granted it doesn't allow for those who are asset-rich / income-poor getting a freebie, but it'd work on a KISS principle.


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## camper69

Rosbotham said:


> That's true enough, but I've never really understood why government choose to overcomplicate things. E.g. why not send a buspass out (indeed send a cheque for the winter fuel payment) from HRMC to everyone over a given age, paying less than a given amount in tax? No means testing needed per se, just derive the information from tax paid, which is a reasonable proxy for income. Granted it doesn't allow for those who are asset-rich / income-poor getting a freebie, but it'd work on a KISS principle.


That would be the same principle as applied to Child Tax Credits :roll: :roll:

Derek


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## dovtrams

Rosbotham said:


> That's true enough, but I've never really understood why government choose to overcomplicate things. E.g. why not send a buspass out (indeed send a cheque for the winter fuel payment) from HRMC to everyone over a given age, paying less than a given amount in tax? No means testing needed per se, just derive the information from tax paid, which is a reasonable proxy for income. Granted it doesn't allow for those who are asset-rich / income-poor getting a freebie, but it'd work on a KISS principle.


After their problems with their new computer do you think HMRC would get that right. The person who said it is cheaper to have a universal system is correct. It has been calculated that if means testing of pensions credits was abolished, the savings on administration would give every person receiving the state pension a large increase. Would tax paid also include council tax, how much more of my money do the feckless want? Are you now saying that the winter fuel allowance should be means tested? Why not pool everyones income and pay everyone the same. Oh that was a system that failed when it was tried a few years ago. Stop worrying what others get, live your own life and be happy.

dave


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## Zozzer

Strange how the government can conveniently forget that the country is the UNITED KINGDOM when it comes to giving people anything.

BUT, I do think it's wrong that people should get free travel nationwide.
I would prefer a farer system whereby you get free travel in the County you live in, and half price fares for the rest of the UK.

Be honest, if you can afford to go away at weekends in a motohome, you can afford bus fares


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## teensvan

Hi.

The best bus pass is a London one. This covers the Bus Underground and overground trains. Guess which ones we went for. 

steve & ann. ------------ teensvan.


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## rayc

If the bus pass was withdrawn then the income to bus companies would fall. There would be no grant from the council which the bus companies have come to rely on. People use their bus pass in the main for elective travel not because they have to. The buses would return to the old days of running near empty during the day and evenings.

I live on a bus route and often decide at short notice to go into Poole. Whilst there I spend money in the cafe's and shops. If I did not have the bus pass would I bother to use the car? That involves paying for fuel, car parking and also puts me at risk of the extravagances of the Safety Camera Partnership and Parking Enforcement Officers. The answer is propably not so the loosers are the local shop and cafe owners.

I wonder if all this talk of means testing any allowance will eventually lead to means testing the pension?


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## bigfoot

When local authorities used to issue buss passes and Orange/Blue disabled motorists badges,Why did people get both? If you have a car badge,how come you can get on and off a bus? Both cost money to the local authority.


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## Rosbotham

dovtrams said:


> Are you now saying that the winter fuel allowance should be means tested?


If I'm honest, yes, I do find it objectionable that..

- my dad and his partner, who live in a £1M+ house, have a portfolio of properties and spend much of their life rightly enjoying their retirement on holiday
- friends parents who have similar wealth
- my in-laws who exist on a few thousand a year with little savings, not because they were feckless but because their employer went bankrupt after 30 yrs employment, taking their pension with it

...all receive the same winter fuel allowance. Just because it works out cheaper to pay the same to all doesn't make the system right. I'd be far happier if the fuel allowance paid to the first two was either directed to cases like the latter, or someone else more deserving.

On the same basis, why should friends of mine with £100k+ household income get child benefit?



dovtrams said:


> Why not pool everyones income and pay everyone the same.


Now you're just being melodramatic...nobody suggested that.


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## Grizzly

rayc said:


> I wonder if all this talk of means testing any allowance will eventually lead to means testing the pension?


A state pension is not a hand-out. It is something that those of us who have worked have put aside for our retirement. Effectively we have lent the money to the state while we were working and so expect it back when we retire. To means test it would be theft.

There are otherfactors to be taken into account with free bus passes. There are many elderly people in this country, especially women, who for various reasons -childcare, low paid jobs, care of parents etc-were unable to accrue a decent pension. There are many who also gave up their youth to fight or conribute to the home economy in the war.

If they, and others like them, did not have a bus pass they would be reliant on others to shop for them or to drive them to hospital appointments or to visit relatives. Many of these people have too much pride to want to rely on others in this way.

All the buses we have travelled on that have been full of over 60s have been cheery social centres too. Surely it is a good thing for them to be able to get out and socialise rather than sit at home, isolated and lonely ?

G


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## rayc

Rosbotham said:


> On the same basis, why should friends of mine with £100k+ household income get child benefit?


Why should anybody get child benefit? If you cannot afford to maintain your family you should not have children. If you are in unfortunate circumstances then it should be means tested and reviewed regularly.

That is of course a stupid statement but there is some truth in it. Perhaps what is required for all benefits is a statement of "reason for issuing the benefit".

I do not know why the Government have decreed that their will be an age related free bus pass, or child benefit, tax credits etc.etc. The reason that these things are in the news now is because the country is skint. Things can only get worse for future generations as Final Salary Scheme pensions are closed. Even the ring fenced ones such as Police, teachers and Council employees are under considerable strain.


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## Rosbotham

rayc said:


> That is of course a stupid statement but there is some truth in it.


I'm not sure it is so stupid. There's probably a valid question that if child tax credits are supposed to target those in need, why have a blanket child benefit scheme as well? And as for the Child Trust Fund, don't get me started...


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## Spacerunner

Child benefit? Isn't that how the country provides factory fodder?

All we need now is the return of our factories.

Don't forget that bus passes, NHS and all other state bebefits are only free at point of access. The working population *is* paying for all these things, the government, both local and national have no money of their own.

As for the £100k+ earners, they pay more in taxes than the lower paid, so, in my view are just as entitled to any state provided benefits, regardless of their assets.


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## oldtart

We have bus passes and enquired about using them in Wales. A friend, who lives in Wales says they can be used if you are making a journey from a place in Wales to somewhere in England and vice-versa. Have yet to try it so I don't know if this is right. He says the same applies to someone with a Welsh pass.


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## williedeliver

I am not allowed to use my Scottish bus pass in England........I thinks it's time we have a UK bus pass


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