# LPG in Winter (freezing conditions)



## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

I did post some of this under another post but as the bit about freezing conditions wasn't picked up on I thought I would try in a seperate post.

In below freezing conditions I have read that if filling up abroad then the propane content becomes reduced and causes problems with gas appliances not working in freezing conditions.

I would of course try to fill up in UK but the whole point of refillable cylinders is for touring long periods 3 months or more so would need to refill abroad.

How have others fared/overcome this issue?

When filling up I have read:

UK 100% Propane 
France & Spain 35% Propane & rest Butane 
Italy 25% Propane rest Butane 
Germany better 90% Propane & 10% Butane. 

So each fill up on the continent has more butane content which is not so good if we want to use mh in winter. 

Any thoughts please. 

Should I only have one refillable bottle and keep 1x6kg Calor Propane bottle as back up/ mind you it probably wouldn't last long in winter! 

I know perhaps it will not be often that I am in freezing conditions but if I am and not on electric hookup then this would be quite important for cooking and heating let alone the fridge (which if it is freezing I wouldn't be concerned with).


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## Doubletread (May 11, 2005)

I had two Gaslow cylinders (6 and 11 kg) fitted about two years ago. I was surprised that the large cylinder appeared empty sooner than I expected but, only took a few litres when I went to fill it. I complained to Gaslow who suggested the regulator was at fault. This seemed odd because the smaller cylinder was at all times supplying gas. Then the same thing happened again, the large cylinder stopped supplying gas but when I tried it again after the small cylinder was empty, it appeared to have gas in it. Unfortunately, I was not able to use my motorhome much last year, so I did nothing more.

Early last month, I took the motorhome along to Rvtex and they discovered the regulator was ‘letting by’ and therefore faulty but, no residue in it, it was clean and dry. The ‘letting by’ does not account for the supply stopping from one cylinder only. I was told the small cylinder was empty but there was some gas in the large cylinder. So with a new regulator, I went along to the Autogas station I normally use and was surprised that it took 27.8 litres of gas which is a full load, except that it is a bit difficult to work out as it is partly temperature dependent and I filled up on a very cold day. Anyway, since then everything appears to be ok. Rvtex suggested that there may have been some butane mixed with the Propane and that low temperature may have caused the problem but, I have never been abroad with the van. Revtex tell me that they have encountered this problem before. Sorry I may be adding to the mystery rather than resolving it but, it will keep the thread alive.

Les


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*LPG in winter*

Hello Rita and Jabu

I can only speak from experience with this. I used Italian LPG for much of last winter (Jan - April) and the overnight temps were somtimes really bad. I had no problems with the Gaslow system or "take off" etc.

Russell


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## catzontour (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi Rita

We've been in the Alps all winter and haven't had a problem using French GPL in our Gaslow system even though the temperature has been down to -9. Today it is snowing like crazy but we are very warm and cosy in our van.

Sue


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## juspalm (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi all, I had a very similar problem to Doubletread, I have a manual changeover valve and gauge fitted to my gaslow system. The gas from one cylinder would keep stopping and wouldn't flow enough to run the heater. I investigated only to find that there was plenty of gas available. I removed both pigtails and found plenty of gas, then removed the changeover valve from the regulator and found that the changeover valve was only letting a small amount of gas through. I removed the changeover valve totally and had to physically disconnect and reconnect the cylinders as the ran out, for the rest of the time I was in france. I took the faulty changeover valve back to the retailer who reluctantly changed it for a new one, stating that it was only a "tee" piece and shouldn't be blocked, even though he couldn't blow through it, but could blow through the new one!!
Fun and games were had at 3-00 in the morning at -15 degrees deciding who was going to go out and change cylinders Brrrrrrrr.
Hope this helps somebody else.
Jus and Rosie!!


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## Doubletread (May 11, 2005)

Jus and Rosie
Thanks for that which I find very interesting, things appear to be ok now, except that I have not yet got anywhere near emptying the 11Kg cylinder as I keep topping it up – I could be in for an unpleasant surprise. Sooner or later I will find out and let every one know.

Les


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Thanks everyone.  

So it seems freezing tempratures are ok but GASLOW manual changeover gauge could be an issue. I did have an automatic changeover gauge on the previous mh but it wouldn't fit in the new mh gas locker! Perhaps the location of manual changeover gauge might be an issue if it was mounted too low and was getting any of that oily gunge blocking it?

So perhaps getting two refillable cylinders will be ok. I think the gas tanks are perhaps a tad more expensive and more exposed to the cold weather under the mh so perhaps will not go down that line.


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

*LPG in Winter (freezing conditions*

Our car runs on lpg that plays up when its really cold! We have gaslow and not had a problem. It could be like diesel they recommend that if you are going to the mountains fill up in that area. They put more additive in to stop you freezing up. Might be like that with lpg less butane in that area. What do you think? You never know.Bob.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Cold*

Hello there,

We have 1xGaslow with Auto Changeover to our Calor. In Central Norway in January this year we went below -21c, with UK Gas and Gas purchased in Norway, we had no problems whatsoever with pressures. Indeed when we did go to fill the bottle it was empty and the changeover had switched to Calor.

Trev.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Rita;

The only time it would become a problem for you would be if you were staying for extended periods in alpine conditions because, as you say - with each fill up the butane element would rise according to the LPG propane/butane ratio in the country you are refilling in.

::unverified propane/butane ratios link::

Over say a normal holiday period of up to say 2 weeks abroad it shouldn't present a problem. With our previous van a few years ago we stayed for a few weeks in Bavaria and the temps were regularly down to -15c. I think I refilled 3 times from empty, each refill gradually decreasing with the last fill roughly 20% less than a full refill, the 20% being the unused butane element. If my unconfirmed quoted ratio's are to be believed then it would obviously be more of a problem in the other continental countries, but I it is possible that they increase the propane element in winter months.

The above is assuming your gas locker is unheated and/or exposed.

If your gas compartment is within a heated area of the van then you won't have any problems as the butane will burn off.

If it isn't then to prevent a butane build up you would need to introduce some form of heat to the locker, possible by a branch off your blown air heater.

As to an underslung gas tank, IMO it would be impractical/virtually impossible to keep the tank sufficiently warm to enable the butane to burn off.

pete


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## 110279 (Feb 29, 2008)

I have twin 11Kg Gaslow cylinders and they hold approx 40 litres of lpg (80%). 
I have also noticed a slight problem with autogas/lpg/gpl in very cold weather - Autogas/lpg/gpl it is a mixture of Propane & Butane, I understand they have more Butane in the warmer months and more Propane in the winter months, the mixture percentages vary greatly over the seasons and the European countries visited. France at the moment has a majority of Propane but there is at least 20% Butane in their mix, Spain (Repsol - Jerez) is all Propane (It says so on the big tank).
I have had my Gaslow gauges show a cylinder to be empty and the auto switchover has clicked over to the other full cylinder even though the "empty" cylinder still had several litres remaining, this is because the outside temperature had dropped below freezing and the Butane part of the mixture had frozen and so no gas is boiling off; because the Propane part has a lower "boiling" point it had been used up and the system showed an empty cylinder. Once the temperature raises over 0c the Butane liquifies and the gas boils again, and the tank gauge shows "green". 
Unless you know how this works you could get confused and start to worry that the gauges are faulty - their not. 
I also use the same lpg fuel in my truck - both the truck and the Gaslow bottles can be filled up at the same time. 
I also have a Gaslow "Spanish" pipe and push on connector for Repsol/Campsa Propane cylinders, because the supply of gpl in spain is very sporadic, if travelling to Spain fill up in France at the border and use a local bottle when you run out. 
Just about every filling station on French motorways have gpl so you'll have no problem in France, you'll probably find that the French gpl in the colder areas (Alps) will have a higher content of Propane, if not 100%.
Regarding fitting Gaslow cylinders in your lockers - at a recent show I saw Gaslow engineers cutting off the handles on their cylinders to fit them into tight lockers, so as long as they do that your 15yr guarantee should be OK too - I'd get it in writing!


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