# Leaks from push-fit pipe fittings



## denhamcs

Can anyone advise me on this one...

I have an Autotrail Cheyenne 696 with a Fiamma water pump that supplies taps through plastic semirigid pipes connected with push-fit connectors. I have tried just about everything to prevent leaks but I still get them from various joints from time to time and as Autotrail saw fit to lay carpet under the hotwater tank and pipework, I am regularly drying it out before refitting the push-fit connectors in a vain attempt to stop leaks.

I have noticed that in my friend's caravan they have used reinforced hoses for the water suppply complete with male connectors and jubilee clips. This seems a much better idea and I thought I would change as much of the pipework over as I could get to. Unfortunately, I am unable to get to it all so was looking to get hold of adapters to allow me to go from 'push-fit/semi rigid pipe' to reinforced flexible hose. I am unable to find any such adapters.

Does anyone know whether they exist or has anyone got an alternative solution to my problem?

Many thanks

Chris


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## rosalan

*Leaking push-fit connectors*

I too have had the same problem, in my case behind the most difficult bathroom panels and repaired under warranty.
As push-fits have more or less become the standard fitting and these pages are not filled with complaints, may I suggest replacing all appropriate connectors with new ones and of course the plastic pipes which, once used, will have compression grooves that are potential sources of new leaks. 
Good luck!
rosalan


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

I have a similiar system on my boat and they are high pressure and never had a problem.

Make sure the connectors snap shut and the locking collar is secure, apart from that just get new connectors from any plumbing shop and change them.

Peter


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## philoaks

CAK tanks seem to stock most of the fittings commonly found in MH's. They may be worth a try.

www.caktanks.co.uk


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sanme problem on fittings under the bed and boile.Try pushing the pipes further into the fitting then pull back to get the claws to grab the pipe.

dave p


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## rugbyken

as a plumber these are coming more and more into the game ,and although not enough of a fan to have used them on an installation myself have had a great deal of success on leaking joint's just by reseating ie pushing them further on or smacking them by that i mean of course lining them up and giving a rap in line with the joint, failing that a release tool purchased with the new fitting's is only a caliper


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## 747

These type of fittings rely on the pressure in the lines making a seal. This is why they can leak sometimes on low pressure systems.

We seemed to manage fine for many years. Sometimes progress can be a backward step. :lol:


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## 113016

You can also get faulty connectors or pipes.
I worked for a large semi trailer manufacturer and they did have a problem about a year ago with pipes popping off the connectors.
Some were just a minuscule too small, but enough to let them pop off under pressure.
The supplier was changed and the problem went away.
Possibly cheap materials.
It could have been either the pipes or the connectors, just a fraction out of size and you have a problem.


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## spindrifter

Hi There

I worked on equipment for 15 years which used the tubing mentioned here. The most important and critical thing is to cut the tubing dead square. Side cutters, Stanley knife, scissors etc will not do the job. The edge that seals in the push fit must be clean, free of burrs or debris and as I mentioned cut dead square. Also when you've cut the tubing square a very thin film of Vaselene will also be helpful in fitting/sealing.

To do this a pair of special cutters is crucial and will save endless headaches. Below is a link to a company which supplies these cutters.

Hope this helps.

David

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=3406


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## aultymer

Not only a square cut but the fittings MUST be pushed home to the correct position (as far as I know you cannot push them too far).
10 years ago I insisted that our house replumbing of domestic water and central heating was done using push on fittings on 'Equator' plastic pipe.
The only problems initialy were on a couple of joints that had not been pushed home.
If you have push on fittings in the van that have leaked then you may have to cut back the pipe to obtain a good seal with new fittings.
The good news is that plastic pipe and push on fittings are a fraction of the cost of copper and brass fittings.


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## dragabed

*leaks from push fit pipes*

why not just add a jubilee clip?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Adding a jubilee clip would distort the grab rings inside the joint and cause the leak to worsen.

Dave p


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## ICDSUN

You may find that some pushfit's need the insert for the pipe, very easy to not fit and give small leaks etc, not all fittings are the same!!
if the maker have the inserts then generally they are needed not an option, also beware of the one-shot fittings which if removed should be discarded and replaced

Most designs are not ideal for use with the clear reinforced pipe, generally pushfit work best with a solid pipe wall ie poly or copper

Chris


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## Zebedee

Closely related concern . . . . 

If there is some water left in the pipes when they freeze (almost inevitably) will the expansion as the ice forms tend to enlarge the diameter of the pipes - or is it likely to exert sufficient pressure lengthwise to spring the joints?

If the former there's no problem, but a repeated lengthwise expansion is not so good! 8O 

I suspect the expansion will be "absorbed" by swelling the pipes slightly, but does anybody know for certain?

Dave


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## ICDSUN

Zebedee said:


> Closely related concern . . . .
> 
> If there is some water left in the pipes when they freeze (almost inevitably) will the expansion as the ice forms tend to enlarge the diameter of the pipes - or is it likely to exert sufficient pressure lengthwise to spring the joints?
> 
> If the former there's no problem, but a repeated lengthwise expansion is not so good! 8O
> 
> I suspect the expansion will be "absorbed" by swelling the pipes slightly, but does anybody know for certain?
> 
> Dave


Dave

There will be some swelling if the line does indeed freeze which if prolonged could cause the grip ring etc to distort and allow water to pass, all our pipes use barbel fittings and clips but last year I found our basin tap had eased apart on the swivel joint after a few very cold days, I had not opened the tap when I drained down so worth doing properly next time

Chris


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## Zebedee

Thanks Chris.

The expansion has to go somewhere (as it were) and hopefully the flexibility of the pipework will absorb most of it.

I would expect these pipes and fitting have been tested by repeated freezing and thawing . . . . wouldn't I? :? 

Wonder if they have been tested? :roll: 

Dave


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## Senator

Hi

The push fit system has been around for some time now and appear to be getting increasingly popular as people gain confidence in the system. And surely, if it was unreliable (sealing) it would not have gained the support it has.

That said, I would think that the system relies on the pressure in the pipe to maintain the seal. And I guess that is where the problem can arise in Motorhomes. Probably when the system is full and pressurised there will be no leaks, but often we drain down (or the water runs out) and we lose the pressure and the seal relaxes.
Then as the system is re-pressurised a leak occurs whilst the fitting settles down and finds the seal.

It has to be said that I have the conventional hose and jubilee clip system and not even a hint of a leak anywhere, ever!

Mark


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## ICDSUN

Zebedee said:


> Thanks Chris.
> 
> The expansion has to go somewhere (as it were) and hopefully the flexibility of the pipework will absorb most of it.
> 
> I would expect these pipes and fitting have been tested by repeated freezing and thawing . . . . wouldn't I? :?
> 
> Wonder if they have been tested? :roll:
> 
> Dave


Dave

Unlikely

They don't appear to test the rest of the van given problems reported on some of the posts on here

It is a quicker assembly time but possibly not the best solution as pushfit is designed for a harder pipe wall surface than the flexible pipes used in MH's

Chris


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## short-stick

From my own experience, I wonder if your problem is actually the pipe and not the fittings!
I had terrible trouble with my previous motorhome, in fact the dealer couldn't fix it at all, some connections just came apart and with a pressure sensor operated pump the end result was the entire contents of the water tank pumped out into the van! I tried many different push fit fittings and all "walked" apart... In the end, and in total desperation I found some copper pipe (8mm I think) and cut 10mm long slugs from this which I pushed into the end of the flexible plastic pipe, then with an element of brite force I was able to push this lined pipe into the push fit fitting, they never came apart again, in fact I doub't they will ever come apart again....
My technical view, there is some plastic pie out there that is either slightly undersize, or too sft in the sidewall, and the pushfit fittings are unable to grab this pipe properly.
And the van, surprise surprise it developed terrible damp problems after having many gallons of water pumped over the floor, the dealers were forced to take it back off me with full credit after a few "discussions" with their main managers!


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## denhamcs

*Thanks*

Thanks to all that have posted on this topic. After several attempts to find alternative solutions I have replaced the bulk of the pipework and fittings with 'speedfit' which does seem a better quality of fitting than I had before. This seems to have worked and I currently have no leaks.

Thanks again for all the advice - this is such a useful site!

Chris


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## geordie01

did you check the inserts were in the pipe?


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## gromett

I used John Guest SpeedFit connectors and pipes in both my self builds and they have been fantastic. I had one faulty T-Piece that leaked. I replaced it with a new one and no problems since.

The only leaks I have in my van are where the speedfit stuff ends and I had to use jubilee clips over standard clear hose. These are buggers to get sealed 100% first time.

The JG connectors cost £3.00 each from Magnums

Karl


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## rugbyken

when pushfit freezes it doesn't push the pipe out as a rule it pushes the fitting apart , eg the collar that hold's the claw, spring and the sealing ring is a pressed fitting and the expansion t tend's to blow this collar off,
all the other posting's are correct square cuts fully home and fit inserts for the cost not worth reusing fittings


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## MEES

I have a nice collection of plastc pipe and joins the mice ate through when the plumber fitted plastc fittings to replace the copper when we had new bathrooms fitted.
Now we have nice new ceilings also :lol:


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## Seeker

Glad yours is sorted but I've just discovered/created a drip leak at a joint in what appears to be glued black push fit plastic pipe approx 1" diameter. 

It's in the rear understore of our Hymer.

There is no external sign of any ridges or seals - it's just straight pipework, which is what makes me think it's 'permanently' glued. 

Problem is that I fear if I try to pull it apart I will only disturb joins further in and beyond reach. And as it's just beyond the shower waste 'trap' (ie pvc pipe bent to a U shape) there's always water in it ...

So can't think of a simple fix.

Harry


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## Roger7webster

The problem with many leaks as has been pointed out by previous posters is a pipe insert is not being used
Most motor homes are now fitted with 12mm pipe and push on fittings.
I have yet to see a pipe insert for this size
Speed fit make double lock fittings for the more usual 15mm and 22mm
pipe and supply pipe inserts
The 12mm fittings twice the cost of 15mm!! I am now replacing my water system with Speed fit 15mm pipe and fittings
I can only agree with the advise to cut the pipe square using a proper cutter. No hacksaws or files required
Hope this is useful


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