# Police Film Aggressive Tailgating Van Driver in Essex



## prof20 (Jan 11, 2007)

Ever had one this close behind you???

Courtesy of Liveleak.

A rearward facing camera mounted in an unmarked police patrol vehicle captures a somewhat inconsiderate van driver, as he proceeds to lose his license.

Essex police have warned motorists they intend to prosecute drivers they film behaving aggressively, as they did with this herbert.






Roger


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

What a pity the film didn't run to showing us the look of the mental retards face when he realised it was a police car! That would have been worth a BAFTA of its own!


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I had better change my ways when following jam jar glasses, flat cap wearing pensioners poddling along at 40 mph :wink: 
Dave p


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## Mark993 (Jul 1, 2007)

Clearly dangerous driving by the van-man, but seems to me that the police car was also guilty of not returning to the left-most available lane after completing an overtake.


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## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

Mark993 said:


> Clearly dangerous driving by the van-man, but seems to me that the police car was also guilty of not returning to the left-most available lane after completing an overtake.


Not necessarily. This appears to be on the M25, or another motorway with Variable Speed Limits, and if a limit is imposed you are supposed to stay in your lane unless exiting the motorway, or overtaking a vehicle travelling well below the limit. Alternatively the van in the next lane keeps moving closer and then dropping back, suggesting that there's traffic in front of the camera car causing it to reduce speed.

In any event, the camera car should not change lane until the van to the nearside is clearly visible in it's rear view mirror. Failure to do this is a major cause of sudden braking on motorways and, quite often, fish-tailing accidents.


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## Mark993 (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi John - since seeing your post I've been searching around trying to find this rule on not changing lanes when the variable limits are in use.

I can't find anything on this (including in highway code - not that it really contains much at all on variable signs).

Where did you hear/see this? It seems slightly odd to me because (for example with a 60 limit) there is still a need to move out (and back in) to pass slow moving vehicles in the left lane. Just want to know because I do this all the time and I'd better stop!

(Completely accept the overall point you are making that the car with the camera may have been subject to constraints of speed limits and vehicle in the adjacent lane)


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## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

Mark993 said:


> Hi John - since seeing your post I've been searching around trying to find this rule on not changing lanes when the variable limits are in use.
> 
> I can't find anything on this (including in highway code - not that it really contains much at all on variable signs).
> 
> ...


You're right Mark, there's no specific rule/law. Occasionally the illuminated signs say "Stay in Lane", particularly at the start of variable limits. The 'need' to overtake reduces as the speed limit reduces, but the basic concept of variable limits is to reduce and even out vehicle speeds during periods of congestion and this works best if people stay in their lane.........within reason.

I'm an advanced driving instructor and we teach keeping to the LH lane (lane 1) except when overtaking, but minimising lane changing wherever possible. This means that you should remain in the middle or RH lanes until you've completed overtaking all vehicles within a reasonable distance, provided that you are not holding up traffic, and then return to Lane 1 (or Lane 2 if Lane 1 is full of slow moving vehicles). Too much lane changing causes faster moving vehicles to accelerate to pass you before you pull out again and then braking hard if you, or others, do.

DO maintain 2 seconds between you and the vehicle in front or, in heavy traffic, maintain enough distance to avoid braking when those in front do so unnecessarily; DO signal in plenty of time before changing lanes (left as well as right on dual or more lane roads, but no left signal after overtaking on a single carriageway).

DO NOT change lanes if vehicles in that lane would have to brake or swerve to avoid you; DO NOT return to a left lane before you can see both headlights (of the vehicle that you have just overtaken) in your rear view mirror, or an equivalent distance in your side mirrors in a MH.

Probably not much different to how you do already but remembering always that any of the other vehicles may be driven by an idiot :roll:

Some say that Lane discipline is better on the continent, especially in Germany. It's partly true but they (esp HGV's) drive way too close to the vehicle in front before pulling out to overtake and (mainly car and small vehicle drivers) fail to pick up speed sufficiently to join the main carriageway from slip roads. Whinge over :wink:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Just an aside comment that relates this thread to others running on here;

what was initially posted as simply a video link to dangerous practice has resulted in a very clear explanation of something that all of us do and probably all of us benefit from being reminded as to what we should be doing......

that is why one can never predict how a "simple video clip" can gradually evolve into a really useful product from which we can all learn,

thanks for that,

Dave


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## rosie66 (Mar 21, 2008)

The first few seconds of this Video have just shown us what 3 'ethnic' lads must have done as we slowly (stop/1 mile p.h./stop) reversed out of a Dartford Toll Booth last March because 2 cars in front having problems! 

Nothing behind us at all - and an empty booth on our right which is where we were going! Sound of a crunch (thought it was side of the Toll) and an angry horn! Back box of MotorHome (with warning triangle on!) scraped bonnet of very old white car suddenly behind us.

Only saw car when we got out - despite continual use of reversing camera and mirrors. Dartford traffic officers said obviously no-one hurt and no real damage.

3rd Party shot off without giving us their Insurance although they had ours. No damage to our MotorHome but we still informed Insurance Company next dayl.
We are STILL fighting a claim (February 2013) by 3rd Party claiming 3 cases of whiplash!!

And, yes, we have left Aviva AND Comfort Insurance who couldn't have cared less and were going to give in and pay up, until we threatened them with the Media and Watch Dog. Now have Aviva's solicitors in our corner! The amount of paperwork we have had to get involved in is beyond belief. A true 'manufactured claim' - if you can call it that! :x :x The first 'accident' we've ever been involved in, in over 30 years - and over 40,000 miles in MotorHome in U.K. and Europe!

Please be aware - it's not just being in front of you that 'some people' are targeting now! And, no, Dave - we DON'T all do that!


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## prof20 (Jan 11, 2007)

rosie66 said:


> Please be aware - it's not just being in front of you that 'some people' are targeting now! And, no, Dave - we DON'T all do that![/quote
> 
> Rosie, I think you might have got that wrong. I think Dave was referring to the lane-changing bit in relation to which John has kindly advised us.
> 
> ...


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

rosie66 said:


> And, no, Dave - we DON'T all do that!


You NEVER overtake any other vehicles?

I somehow doubt that..... :lol:

My comment relates clearly to WiteCheyenneMan's advice;

WhiteCheyenneMan said;

_ 
I'm an advanced driving instructor and we teach keeping to the LH lane (lane 1) except when overtaking, but minimising lane changing wherever possible. This means that you should remain in the middle or RH lanes until you've completed overtaking all vehicles within a reasonable distance, provided that you are not holding up traffic, and then return to Lane 1 (or Lane 2 if Lane 1 is full of slow moving vehicles). Too much lane changing causes faster moving vehicles to accelerate to pass you before you pull out again and then braking hard if you, or others, do._

_DO maintain 2 seconds between you and the vehicle in front or, in heavy traffic, maintain enough distance to avoid braking when those in front do so unnecessarily; DO signal in plenty of time before changing lanes (left as well as right on dual or more lane roads, but no left signal after overtaking on a single carriageway).

DO NOT change lanes if vehicles in that lane would have to brake or swerve to avoid you; DO NOT return to a left lane before you can see both headlights (of the vehicle that you have just overtaken) in your rear view mirror, or an equivalent distance in your side mirrors in a MH. _

excellent advice IMO about how to overtake whether in the MH, a car, or on a motorbike......

Dave


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## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

I should probably add (and this may be what the police car was doing when the van came very close) that if someone comes too close behind you never brake, of course, but gradually increase the distance between you and the vehicle in front to reduce the risk of a concertina crash, with you as piggy in the middle  

By the way, if a vehicle following you flashes their headlights (reasonably!!) they are correct in warning you of their presence, as per the Highway Code. Flashing headlights to say 'thank you' or 'you can go' is totally wrong but, everyone does it and it's become established driver signalling. When I first qualified I used to ignore 'you can go' flashes and wait. After a few days of verbal and multi-finger abuse I gave up and proceeded cautiously. Confusing eh? :roll:


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> DO signal in plenty of time before changing lanes (left as well as right on dual or more lane roads, but no left signal after overtaking on a single carriageway).


I'm interested in the rationale/reasoning for treating multi-lane roads differently from single carriageways with respect to using indicators to signal an intention to move left following an overtake.


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## metblue (Oct 9, 2006)

*police car*

watched the video and a few things spring to mind. I was always taught that once you have passed a vehicle that you return to the n/side lane,outside lane is for overtaking only !!
Police car has passed the van in the centre lane,then slowed down,this can be seen clearly on the video with the van in centre closing with police not once but twice !!
the van driver was/is an idiot but this happens all the time on motorways,there is always the centre lane hugger who will never pull over to the correct lane.
when i pass them i purposely indicate halfway past and push them over wether i am driving my coach,car or motorhome.
To me the police "made this happen" or at least did not help it,in America it would be called entrapment.
The police for the most part do a great unrewarding job but they think that they are a law unto themselves.
Last week a traffic car pulled out in front of me at 8pm,i flashed my headlights at him with no response, however when i drew up alongside him and shook my head he followed then stopped and tried to give me a lecture on road rage after first admitting that he did not see despite it being dark and me having my headlights on.
I told him to **** off and eventually he did but, only because there was 2 of them but 5 of us in the car going out to a night out.bloody chancers


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## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

bigtwin said:


> WhiteCheyenneMan said:
> 
> 
> > DO signal in plenty of time before changing lanes (left as well as right on dual or more lane roads, but no left signal after overtaking on a single carriageway).
> ...


A safe driver will always signal using the MSM (Mirrors, Signal, Manoeuvre) routine when: moving off, signalling, changing direction (i.e. turning left, which includes exiting a roundabout, turning right, overtaking or changing lanes (ref: "Driving the essential skills" published by the Driving Standards Agency). It also applies when you are slowing down, but the use of a hand signal, or brake lights as a signal, is optional. That is, would anyone benefit from being warned that you're about to slow down? Obviously if you use the brakes, you automatically make a signal!

So when moving to the right to overtake, you must use the full MSM routine including a right signal. On a dual carriageway you should be returning to the left lane, changing lanes, so a signal is required. But on a single carriageway the left signal is not required, because we drive on the left and so following traffic expects us to return to the left hand side after overtaking. If you do signal left on your Driving Test you'll pick up a fault each time and worry the examiner as to whether you're aware of the correct procedure. After you've passed your test it's less critical, but unnecessary. To be a safe driver you should not signal, in order to avoid confusing other drivers.

Sorry if that all sounds too much like a lecture


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

*Oh really*

So a 65 yrs old driver with four probably similarly aged mates on board tell two police officers to **** off when pulled over to be spoken to, and because of being outnumbered and thereby presumably intimidated, the police officers meekly back off and let the happy party carry on their merry way victorious. This might included indicating to pull over half way past overtaking someone when driving a coach, motorhome or car, thereby making the other driver fear a collision, forcing them over into another lane (presumably not knowing what traffic was in the other lane.)

Readers will no doubt decide for themselves as to the advantages or otherwise of adopting similar practices.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

On a single carriageway I will indicate left when pulling back in. I do this to let drivers who are coming the other way know that I am not a Kamikaze Pilot.


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> On a dual carriageway you should be returning to the left lane, changing lanes, so a signal is required.
> 
> But on a single carriageway the left signal is not required, because we drive on the left and so following traffic expects us to return to the left hand side after overtaking.


I'm clear that you're clear that you have a set of rules that explain your treatment of the use of the left indicator HOWEVER, isn't the argument you use for not requiring its use on a single carriageway also applicable to a dual carriageway/motorway?

In your own words:



WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> On a dual carriageway you should be returning to the left lane, ..........


If someone overtakes me on a motorway, I expect them to move left, as they should, after completing the maneouvre (but sadly, I'm often dissappointed!!).

The rationale seems inconsistent. This is not a criticism of what you advocate but rather a genuine desire to understand why what may be considered as 'best practise' is so.


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## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

I could cop out and simply say that I'm passing on the Driving Standards Agency's (DSA) policy. They make the rules :wink: 

Your queries bigtwin are the same as many drivers, especially experienced drivers. 

You say "If someone overtakes me on a motorway, I expect them to move left, as they should, after completing the maneouvre (but sadly, I'm often dissappointed!!)" and that's precisely the point. On a dual, or multi-lane road, not all drivers return to the left lane after overtaking. It may be that they have decided to overtake another vehicle before returning to the left and this is fine, if they're not holding up following traffic. Or they may be lane hoggers. I never fail to be amazed at people who move to the left to let me overtake them (if I'm lucky) and then move back to the right when I have passed them, even though the left lane is empty. These are the people who think the lanes are slow, medium and fast lanes. They probably also think that the national speed limit on dual carriageways is 60mph, not 70mph :roll:

But in theory you can stay in a right hand lane of a dual carriageway, there's no law to say that you must return to the left lane (unless you are impeding the flow of traffic for example). The Highway Code only expresses Rules for this, not laws. So this is why it is important to inform other road users, especially the one that you have just overtaken, that you intend to change lanes back to the left.

All driving should be based on safety and one of the most important elements of that is to ensure that other road users know what you are about to do. Yes, you can use that argument for single carriageway roads, but that would be to ignore the fact that the right hand lane is the wrong side of the road!

Clear?............as mud


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