# MOTs - Class 4 or 7 ?? and Relicensing



## LandCruiser (Feb 12, 2006)

I posted an earlier thread detailing the exchange of e-mails between myself, DVLA and VOSA which followed receipt of my first License renewal form on my one-year old 4500kg Hobby MH.

The new Licensing form (V11) contained the dreaded clause about having the vehicle MOT'd at the end of year 1 (Is it a MH, or is it a Living Van = a MH carrying goods of burden ??).

DVLA pointed me at VOSA who responded by confirming my MH was Class 4 and only needed an MOT at end-year 3 ! Back to DVLA, who went away to think about it !!

Today, DVLA have come back and "clarified" matters. Here's what they had to say...

"Because vehicle use has a significant bearing on the testing requirement for motor caravans, it cannot be established from our vehicle record whether a vehicle is being used as a motorhome or a living van (carrying goods). As we have no way of knowing whether a vehicle is, for testing purposes, a Living Van or a Motor Caravan we address this by amending the advisory testing note on the V11 vehicle licence reminder form.

As you have declared that your vehicle is not used for carrying goods or burden apart from those associated with the accommodation, in order to claim exemption from the MoT requirement as you are entitled to, any application made for a vehicle licence in the first three years from the date of first registration should be supported by a V112 exemption form. Three years from the date of first registration, as my colleagues in the Vehicle Operator and Services Agency (VOSA) have pointed out, your vehicle will require a Class IV MoT certificate.

I realise that this process may appear unnecessarily complex, but trust I have explained our position sufficiently."

So, all nicely cleared-up then !!

In a nutshell......If you have a MH weighing 3500kg+, with a "garage", then you have to claim exemption from MOT testing in years 1 to 3 on the V112 form, at the time of relicensing.

Brian.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Hi Brian thanks for that valuble info,
what does it say on your V5c registration document if it says Motorhome as it should, then you dont need an exemption from somthing that is not reqd,
Dvla should insist on Manf declaring the type of vehicle it is suposed to be
that way they would know to what use the vehicle is or should be put to, simple "Motorhome" or "Living Van" on the V5c, Job done no need to harris anybody with a Motorhome then  
Geo


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## LandCruiser (Feb 12, 2006)

Hi Geo,

My Hobby is registered as a MH ! But that's no longer enough !

The DVLA's point is that MH's (with in-built garages) can carry goods and so they now bring-in this requirement at Relicensing time - either you declare exemption from MOT testing in years 1 -3 or you have the vehicle MOT'd each year !

Trying to figure out which part of the V112 exemption form to sign is hilarious !

Brian.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

So Having made the declaration and re taxed your MH, 6 months down the line your pulled by Plod or VOSA and you have a scooter in the garage ,then what ??? No MOT + NOins + no valid Tax, Sounds good to me
I repeat is is up to the converter to declare what the vehicle is, Motorhome or Living Van, then its upto the customer to decide what they want to buy, and DVLA to notify accordingly
Geo


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## LandCruiser (Feb 12, 2006)

Yep ! A good ol' bureaucratic mess ! 

I read somewhere that SMMT Motorhome section were going to take-up the case with the DVLA as they consider a "motorhome is a motorhome" - but that will take time, of course ....

In the meantime, to stay legal, I declare on V112 and MOT at end-year 3. I don't carry "transport" in the garage - it's on a trailer following behind, so I'm not uncomfortable in making the declaration.

I agree, though, those who put a scooter or bike in the garage have a problem under this new scenario; come on SMMT, get it sorted !

Brian.


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

So what about the scooter outside, on a rack? The rack is part of the Motorhome so anything placed upon it then becomes part of the Motorhome?
Another spanner in the works?
I agree with Geo.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes Steve you are right to worry about your rack, the regs state a vehicle *constructed OR adapted* to carry goods not reqd for habitation purposes
Ooooooooooooooooooooooops


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

this is the case for all m/h with garage but if they are over 3,5 t it may be a HGV style mot from year 1 but all m/h with a garage are required to have the higher class mot as they are all now classed as living vans


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Geo
Mine is 3850 weight 2005 model so passed year one, no Mot supplied so did it need one? 
The Rack will come off for the Mot.
As the Mot is It was passed at the time of inspection, then it passed at the time of inspection due to no scooter rack. The scooter rack is fitted after mot so no Mot due for another year. Is that correct?

Steve


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

If you have a large motorhome surely you can argue as follows.

"My motorhome is too large for all but the largest shopping car parks and only then if they have no height barriers. Rather than clog up the roads looking for a suitable place to stop I use the bicycle /scooter/whatever as a necessary aid to habitation to get food."


Do you like it?

Regards Frank


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

I like it a lot Frank but Vosa wont have it
Steve don't worry to much i have had legnthy talks with Vosa over this one and no body wants to give you a definitive answer, when pushed to make a decision ( I told them I had a Motorhome with a garage and over 3500kg in for test) and that would mean me testing out of class if it was a living van(we only do class 4) they said ask the customer what he puts in there i lied and said he told me he puts in a large fridge when he goes away, test is as a class 4 then I was told!!! if he said scooter I would have to refuse to test and direct him to a class 7 test centre,
Remember this rule about living Vans was brought it to take care of the growing number of converted coaches used for race car transportation, being MOT'd by a tester who has no experience of commercial vehicles,
Unfortunately as designs have changed we now have Motorhomes capable of carrying goods and this has now overspilled once again into when the 1st Mot test date is due, as your vehicle could now be re classified, I keep repeating the fact that I believe it is the Converters+DVLA+VODAS's responsibly to declare what he has built.
let me give you another scenario you have just bought your 13 month old MH, registered as a MH you put your scooter in the back down the road your stopped and checked, the motor home had a declaration that it did't need an mot by the last owner, you bought it thinking as its only 13 month old it didnt need one, i did cos you are carrying goods, who is responsible YOU!!!! and you rely on the V5c to tell you what your buying dont you, there isnt another vehicle on the road wereby you can change its descripion or tax class at will, without some form of inspection so why can you with MHs 
Geo
Time for another petition me thinks for what good it will do, seeing as no one is interested


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## 94055 (May 1, 2005)

Frank
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Geo
Thanks mate as I thought, anyway it gets a free M.o.t off Hymer.
If I have any problems in the future I will quote........told me :lol: 


Steve


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi most of us carry some tools of some sort, as their not strictly needed for habitation, could they classed as "Goods" :? 

Olley


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Here is part of the reply I received when I questioned the new paragraph about testing on my last V11:- 

'Some of the items you mention would probably not be considered as 
'reasonably necessary to provide mobile living accommodation'- such as a 
canoe,dinghy and motor cycles. Such a vehicle would deemed to be a 'living 
van' for testing purposes. '

Where would this stop? A corkscrew is an essential part of our kit but is not necessary for living!(because you can always just buy screwtop bottles)
Is there a limit on the number of toilet rolls you should carry before they become classed as 'goods'?

I would maintain that the use of the word 'goods' is being bastardised by a bureaucrat somewhere to include our toys. I like to think that if this were tested in court it would be seen that it was not parliaments intention that non trade items could be referred to as 'goods' in the context of items carried in a motorhome for the use of the occupants.


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## pauwilson (May 24, 2005)

You think this is madness, you should see the hassle that the EU drivers hours changes is going to have next week. 

Amongst a load of other changes as of Wed 11th April trucks or a truck and trailer combination over 7.5t that carry "non commercial goods" now have to adhere to driving hours regulations, and basically have to have a tachograph. This is going to cause havoc with race transporters and large horseboxes. Exemption is now only on private trucks up to 7.5t. 

If we ended up with garage models being classed as living vans, it could be a nightmare for those with big RV's or even medium RV's with trailers like this. Not only would you get hit at MOT, but you would have a restriction on how long you could drive etc. What if you were a commercial truck driver during the week doing long hours - potentially you could not legally use your van at the weekend. 

What a can of worms, the world is going mad. 

Regards
Paul


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## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

Any reason why people are so bothered about having to MOT from year one rather than three it's only a couple of tests. MOT only gets expensive if vehicle fails it and if it fails at whatever age I'd rather know there was a fault and get it fixed than be driving something dangerous.

The classification thing does seem to be getting ludicrous though. In my case I have an after market back box fitted (so clearly adapted to carry) whilst some people might carry a horse in it say (ok bit of a tight fit) because they are into horses I wish to carry a bucket and spade cos I'm into making sandcastles with the nipper. Seems like that makes it a living van.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi Emgee,
It just seems strange that at a time when the powers that be are considering a 4-2-2 Mot regime for cars that motorhomes carrying toys are to be considered 'living vans' subject to a 1-1-1-1- testing regime. 
I have no problem with annual testing, but any change in designation of my van leaves it open to changes in taxation rates if the Tories get back in.


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## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

aultymer said:


> Hi Emgee,
> It just seems strange that at a time when the powers that be are considering a 4-2-2 Mot regime for cars that motorhomes carrying toys are to be considered 'living vans' subject to a 1-1-1-1- testing regime.
> I have no problem with annual testing, but any change in designation of my van leaves it open to changes in taxation rates if the Tories get back in.


I'd be worried about that one whoever got in. Whoever you vote for the government gets in


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## 102160 (Dec 20, 2006)

My van is registered as a private HGV (by the supplying dealer BTW not me) so does that mean 1 year or three year MOT's. And as its already a 'HGV' I assume that I can carry 'goods' (such as a scooter) with impunity.???


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## 97600 (Feb 7, 2006)

I was given this document when I attended the VOSA test centre last week.

*MOT Temporary Instruction*

*Classification of Motor Caravans & Living Vans*
TI Number TI 059
Version 1.0
Issue Date 19 March 2007

*REASON FOR TEMPORARY INSTRUCTION*
There have been no changes to the statutory definitions of a motor caravan or living van set out in Regulation 3 of the Motor Vehicle (Tests) Regulations 1981. However, the Department for Transport (DfT) were recently asked to clarify the implications of a motor caravan being used to carry various types of goods or equipment. This Temporary Instruction sets out Dft's guidance.

*INSTRUCTION*

*DfT guidance on the classification of Motor Caravans and Living Vans*

A motor caravan that has permanently installed equipment and facilities necessary for the vehicle to provide living accommodation and which only caries goods needed for the purposes of residence in the vehicle(for example: sufficient food for the expected length of holiday, cycles, surfboards, etc.) would be tested as a class IV vehicle at any VTS with adequate facilities, regardless of its laden weight. larger motor caravans may incorporate a space sufficient for carrying a scooter or even a microcar. Provided that such items are only to be used for the purpose of residence in the motor caravan (such as using the car for shopping because of the size of the motor caravan) they are still to be tested as Class IV vehicles.

Vehicles used for carrying goods which are not needed for the purposes of residence in the motor caravan (for example a motor caravan used as a van to convey goods from one place to another, or a motor caravan which also has an area set aside to carry horses) would need to be tested as a living van (goods vehicle) and could therefore be a class IV, VII or HGV, depending on its DGW. Clearly if it's DGW is over 3500kg it would be tested under the Goods Vehicle (Plating & Testing) regulations 1998 and have its first test one year after its date of registration.

*END OF DOCUMENT*

Hope this helps

Regards
Nick


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

See Geo they were listening  (see my previous post)

Regards Frank


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