# Gassed?



## ojibway

*Hi y'all,
I have been following a topic on the French www.campingcar-infos.com website about gassing. A correspondent says he and the occupants of several other vans were gassed and robbed in Portugal. The cc-infos community said it was interesting to have one real report rather than anecdotal reports of gassings.
One correspondent suggested that if there was not evidence of being gassed it may be questionable as to whether the occupants really had been gassed.

Has anyone in the MH Facts community actually been gassed in a motorhome?
The only first-hand report I got was from a trucker who frequently travelled to Spain and back and was gassed in Spain. Put him off trucking!

Regards, Mike*

*Moderator Note ( 20/11/06) :

Since this thread was started new evidence that focuses on the whether an anesthetic gas could be used in robberies has been posted in the News section of Motorhomefacts. You can read this News Item >>HERE <<*


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## 96088

I had a curry last night, it was touch and go for a while :wink: 

Your resident cynic

Pete


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## desertsong

What! This old hoary thing creeps out about once a week it seems. Right, okay, I'm open minded, somebody, anybody, who has been gassed show us the eveidence we need to know.

All this reminds of rock bands in the seventies who were big in China or Russia or japan. It was always some damned place where you couldn't check, you just either believed it or not. So, this affects us all on here, so give.

Willie


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## Pusser

With the number of gassings that appear to happen I would have thought by now the method and tools and substance used would be public knowledge. When it is, I will be the first to believe it.


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## Rapide561

*Gas attacks*

Hi

If a gas attack occurred and then the uccupants of the van awoke and called the police etc, presumably there would be physical evidence of gassing - eg taste, smell etc

Rapide561


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## Rapide561

*Gas attacks*

Hi

Just thinking about gas attacks. If gas attacks were as common as we are lead to believe, then there must only be me, Oscar, Pusser and a few others who have not been gassed.

The same can be said about the TV program Midsomer Murders.

Assuming Oscar and I live in Midsomer, we must be the only people alive given the weekyl murder rate!

Rapide561


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## Pusser

*Re: Gas attacks*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Just thinking about gas attacks. If gas attacks were as common as we are lead to believe, then there must only be me, Oscar, Pusser and a few others who have not been gassed.
> 
> The same can be said about the TV program Midsomer Murders.
> 
> Assuming Oscar and I live in Midsomer, we must be the only people alive given the weekyl murder rate!
> 
> Rapide561


I may have been gassed before but because I was unconscious, I didn't know I had. 8O


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## Rapide561

*Gassed*

Hi Pusser

Oscar can often cause his own form of a gas attack! Does that count?

Rapide561


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## xgx

try oscar on Chudleigh's ...supposed to have _art suppressant

phooooeeee... doesn't seem to work on ours :lol: :lol: 

You could always apply for an _arts council grunt rustle :wink:


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## tokkalosh

What I don't understand is, if you are asleep and are gassed, how do you know .... you are already asleep!!


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## Mat7

tokkalosh said:


> What I don't understand is, if you are asleep and are gassed, how do you know .... you are already asleep!!


Because you wake up feeling like you had few to many! and unable to find the bottle opener! (and your rolex)

:roll: :roll: 8O :roll: :roll:


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## DABurleigh

If you don't wake up, other people know (not that it's happened) and if you do, either you think, or the police dismissively tell you, that you've been gassed.

No-one, to my knowledge, has acquired any hard evidence that they indeed have been gassed. People on MHF, MMM, etc claimed they have, but have not yet substantiated it.

My trouble is that it seems more substantial than an urban myth, and there is the no smoke without fire feeling, etc. etc. 

But increasingly, I feel people who claim with apparent certainty that they have been gassed, but cannot substantiate it, are acting irresponsibly.

Dave


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## geraldandannie

The people who appeared on Richard and Judy claimed to have been gassed twice on one trip. Their accounts sounded like they had a couple of hard days' drive, and a couple of bottles of wine. Woke up with thick heads, and hadn't heard a thing. Must have been gassed - the journalist accompanying them told them so. :roll: 

If I'd taken inadequate security precautions on a public, easily accessible motorway service area, I might say I've been gassed to help the insurance claim along. Especially when they were claiming to have lost £10,000 - worth of stuff.

Gerald


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## 98452

First we knew is Spain was when the Guardia knocked on the door, were in disbelief first of all then was asked to check my car as well and on the seat they had left my Land Rover keys (caravanning at time) we were on t5he Autopista 7 toll road just outside Valencia on toll road service) took only cash (not all of it though)

They must have been very sure of themselves as must have climbed over my 13 stone Great Dane (he had a permenant cough since sadly) to get my keys next to our fixed bed at the back of the van.

Done about a dozen units including the Spanish lorry driver behind us (he was livid as owner driver and taken his fuel money)

Personally think the local cops are in on it though.


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## Mat7

I tell you what, if i get a chance at a rally, i will quite happily nod off in a chair and someone can spray ether (easy start) near or on me to see if it makes me stay asleep (or deeper sleep)! having worked with the stuff I cannot see it working. After all im sure if I started looking ill im sure someone could call for help! (after checking to see if they could wake me up)
Then I would want a re test with drinking a large amount of beer, I have my ideas which would work better!

Might put to bed some of the myth! unless they have an ultra secret gass!

cheers for now
Matt 8O  8O :roll:


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## 98452

I'm just telling you what happened to us and a dozen other units.

If you care to call me a liar (or dreamer :roll: ) that's your right but I was robbed and knew nothing about it.

Wont waste my time anymore trying to tell you what happened to us.

JUST THAT IT DID!!!

Friendly forum??? someone asks a question you answer it honestly (and try to warn others) only to then get the pi$$ taken!!


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## tokkalosh

Hi Road Runner,

So how did you feel when you were woken up, thirsty, groggy ... what?


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## 98452

tokkalosh said:


> Hi Road Runner,
> 
> So how did you feel when you were woken up, thirsty, groggy ... what?


Baffled, confused and next day annoyed only to queue for a whole day following while the local plod took statements


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## C7KEN

John my son and I have actually stopped burglaries when in progress down here in Spain and we are very aware that folks can and do sleep through the event even those that think they are light sleepers, most of the break ins are around 4am however it's your dog that surprises me, would you say he was the type to generally leap up and react to strangers or is he normally a very placid dog, I am surprised they broke in and continued to steal if they knew you had a dog


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## Mat7

RR said:


> I'm just telling you what happened to us and a dozen other units.
> 
> If you care to call me a liar (or dreamer :roll: ) that's your right but I was robbed and knew nothing about it.
> 
> Wont waste my time anymore trying to tell you what happened to us.
> 
> JUST THAT IT DID!!!


Sorry john my coments were not driected at your personaly, just in genral!
I hate the idea of being robbed, i have been at home a couple of times, admitedly never heard a thing! it taught me a lesson in security that you never forget. 
There are alot of scumbags out there who make there living doing such things, and in doing so with out being caught makes them sucsesfull! I just cannot comprehend that a robber would go to such lengths for easy pickings such as tired tourists who will have cash and cammeras and creditcards!

Cheers Matt :roll: 8O :roll: 8O


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## 98452

C7KEN said:


> John my son and I have actually stopped burglaries when in progress down here in Spain and we are very aware that folks can and do sleep through the event even those that think they are light sleepers, most of the break ins are around 4am however it's your dog that surprises me, would you say he was the type to generally leap up and react to strangers or is he normally a very placid dog, I am surprised they broke in and continued to steal if they knew you had a dog


Our dog is a huge friendly mutt but lays the law down if he hear anything firstly (generally enough)

But others were done to all at the same time.


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## geraldandannie

I don't think anyone was taking the pee, RR, about being robbed. It's a horrible thing to happen to you, and I'm sure everyone sympathises. It's the gassing thing that has people scratching their heads. Maybe the cops are jumping to the conclusion that it's gas. But I've seen discussion from chemists (as in someone who works with chemicals, not someone who works at Boots), and they say it's impossible to get the dose right from the stuff they're using. To knock you out, as opposed to killing you, seems to be a very fine line, and outside the realms of possibility in an enclosed, but vented, place like a caravan or motorhome. Maybe it makes it easier for the cops - no point in investigating, just blame the gas attacks.

Gerald


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## 98452

Well it was a funny old night then as a dozen others got done to all at the same time :!:








how brave would you be coming face to face with the bigger one in a caravan???

What more can I say?


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## shortcircuit

RR

Is this the source of the gas :?


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## 98452

shortcircuit said:


> RR
> 
> Is this the source of the gas :?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Why we are getting an RV :wink: the wife would have another one :roll: :roll:


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## sallytrafic

The other problem with debates of this type ie lots of anecdotal stuff but little hard evidence, is that we don't know each other. For example I could sit here and make up anything I wanted to and how would you check. I could stay here out of sight with a fictitious name a fictitous motorhome a fictitious location and all my predudices/certanties and you could never prove I was mistaken or lying or telling the truth or that it happened at all. Or I can sit here and say I am a anaesthetist doctor police surgeon chemist and say it can't happen believe me I am a scientist when all I have might be a vivid scepticism.

In short what I am saying is this is an arguement that is unwinnable until some concrete evidence emerges and it is no use us losing our cool or making dismissive remarks.

I for one would need to see something in Nature, Scientific American or New Scientist before believing but thats because I'm a Scientist ...




honest!


Regards Frank


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## 98452

*Why ask the question then????? :roll: :roll: :roll:*

You obviously don't want a truthful reply :roll: :roll: :roll: maybe you want a forum where people only exchange bu** sh*t :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:


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## sallytrafic

RR said:


> *Why ask the question then????? :roll: :roll: :roll:*
> 
> You obviously don't want a truthful reply :roll: :roll: :roll: maybe you want a forum where people only exchange bu** sh*t :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:


Who are you shouting at?

Frank


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## 98452

sallytrafic said:


> RR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why ask the question then????? :roll: :roll: :roll:*
> 
> You obviously don't want a truthful reply :roll: :roll: :roll: maybe you want a forum where people only exchange bu** sh*t :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you shouting at?
> 
> Frank
Click to expand...

you in reply to your ignorance!!!!!

You believe it or you don't (all I gain is the fact that I am admitting I am a prat stopping in a service area for a night)

_I was on trying to be Frank :lol:_


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## cabby

Why are you shouting RR. We have only said that there has not been any concrete proof about these reported gassings.the gas being used has not been quoted.There has been quite a bit on this subject in the press.a few scientists have been asked what gas could be used in relative safety for user and sufferer.more to the point is how much gas would be needed to do this.So we ask that as you state you have been a victim what details can you give us regards smell, taste, discolouration, anything to put us on the trail of the type of gas used. this would be a great help.
Most importantly remember that to have and keep a sense of humour will stand you in good stead when you need it.


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## spykal

Hi RR

just a suggestion that if you wish to continue this discussion you cool down a bit. 
Mike

*Moderator Note ( 20/11/06) :

Since this thread was started new evidence that focuses on the whether an anesthetic gas could being used in robberies has been posted in the News section of Motorhomefacts. You can read this News Item >>HERE <<*


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## 98452

Best I say no more on the subject.

You seem to want to tear me to pieces for answering a question :roll: :roll: 

Dumb move :!:


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## sallytrafic

sallytrafic said:


> RR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why ask the question then????? :roll: :roll: :roll:*
> 
> You obviously don't want a truthful reply :roll: :roll: :roll: maybe you want a forum where people only exchange bu** sh*t :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you shouting at?
> 
> Frank
Click to expand...

What question did I ask?

Frank


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## 98452

spykal said:


> Hi RR
> 
> just a suggestion that if you wish to continue this discussion you cool down a bit. Your last remark is uncalled for and rude.
> 
> Mike


So it's not rude to tell someone who admits to being robbed in reply to a question that it's anecdotal or just plain lies :roll: :roll:


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## spykal

Hi RR

I have spent time reading through all the posts and replies in this thread ...other than some questionable humour I have not seen anything that has been rude or disparaging to you or your story of your robbery. What I have seen is obvious sympathy for you but scepticism about whether you were actually gassed.

Mike


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## 98452

> Has anyone in the MH Facts community actually been gassed in a motorhome?


But if the thread asks if you have been gassed and if your mug enough to admit it, it seems you are dissected to the point of being rude.

Why start the thread???

As a newbie I didn't realise that you were not suppose to reply to questions which has directly affected you (and possibly kill us)

Sorry to anyone I have been rude to but definitely feel my character has been questioned.

It happened to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But best you all carry on believing it never happens and it's all made up.


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## spykal

Hi RR

Thanks for the reply...I (and I think most of us here) do understand how you feel. But this discussion about gassing is not new and this thread is not the first and I am sure will not be the last. If you can bear it try using the search to look up all the old posts on the subject ... 

Keep posting....we do really wish to get to the bottom of it and any personal evidence is worth a lot more than hearsay. 

Mike


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## DABurleigh

I used to like paraphrasing/summarising in English lessons, so here goes:

Question asked:


> One correspondent suggested that if there was not evidence of being gassed it may be questionable as to whether the occupants really had been gassed.
> Has anyone in the MH Facts community actually been gassed in a motorhome?


In another recent thread asking about first hand experience of being gassed, John RR says:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-154993.html#154993
"I get really annoyed when people doubt it cant happen."
"I am 6ft 5in tall 19 stone and I have a 14 stone great Dane but we were all knocked out." 
"It does happen."
"As to which gas was used how the heck do I know?"

We take this to mean he is convinced he was gassed. He suffers no clinical aftereffects.

The evidence that arguably points to a gas attack is that his dog doesn't wake and now has a cough.

I can't explain this, but IMHO it is not convincing evidence of a gas attack.

Nevertheless, we all (well I do) think "there but for the grace of God ...", no-one is querying what an absolutely awful experience it must have been, and we are grateful for the opportunity to be better forewarned about such matters.

Dave


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## 98452

spykal said:


> Hi RR
> 
> Thanks for the reply...I (and I think most of us here) do understand how you feel. But this discussion about gassing is not new and this thread is not the first and I am sure will not be the last. If you can bear it try using the search to look up all the old posts on the subject ...
> 
> Keep posting....we do really wish to get to the bottom of it and any personal evidence is worth a lot more than hearsay.
> 
> Mike


Thank you but what's the point? especially on this subject.

I must thank the forum thus far for answering my newbie questions but feel I probably have nothing to add to the group.


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## 99425

*gassed*

i am an anaesthetic technician working in a general hospital, and obviously witness hundred,s of anaesthetics per year ( under controlled conditions may i add, which of course includes the administration of oxygen, which as we all know is nesecerry to maintain life) and i very much doubt that administrating "gas" into an uncontrolled environment, would be safe ! ! ! ! ! ie; the "gassed, persons or person" could loose their life, as they could swallow their tongues, and or be physically sick, thus obstructing the airways, and as they obviously could not place themselves into the recovery position this could prove fatal ! ! ! ! so to summirise, we would hear of numerous deaths from "gasing" rather than incidents where the "victims" wake up from the ordeal ! ! ! ! ! on a more serious note, please don,t worry about attending hospital for an anaesthetic, as stated we are highly trained individuals, and our prime concern is of course our patients.


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## spykal

DABurleigh said:


> Snipped from the text:
> 
> Nevertheless, we all (well I do) think "there but for the grace of God ...", no-one is querying what an absolutely awful experience it must have been, and we are grateful for the opportunity to be better forewarned about such matters.


I am sure that we do "all" feel like DAB ....

Can I suggest to those who may have a genuine desire to get to the bottom of the "gas attack" scenario that when discussing it on here, with self declared first hand victims, that we tread a bit more carefully.......innuendo and slights made about the veracity of the victims report can be really upsetting to the victim....we have just seen an example of that. I don't know how many of you have been the victim of crime... if you have had personal experience of a Burglary, a Mugging or a Robbery you will well know that it can and does leave you very vunerable for quite a time afterwards and even though they say talking can help I am not so sure about talking on a forum....this is not the best of environments to talk about such personal experiences with a bunch of strangers.

Mike


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## sallytrafic

Well it seems that my comments triggered this off for which I apologise but I thought I was being even handed. ie the experts are likely not to be so expert and may be wrong etc. I will be more careful in future.

Frank


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## ojibway

*Thanks RR for your contribution. Mine was a genuine question and yours a genuine and disturbing answer. If a gas can knock out people it will also knock out the dogs. There will always be sceptics but they cannot prove that it did not happen to you.
I am very conscious of the fact there are a load of thieves out there trying to take what is yours and have no scruples about how you feel about it, physically and emotionally. Hasn't happened to us yet and we take lots of precautions and will get a gas alet too.
My parents were both aneathetised with what they believe was chloroform, in their beds. Fortunately the burglar missed me. They woke up with headaches and valuables stolen (this was in South America)
Thanks again RR,
Mike*


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## 100614

Following report appeared in our local paper yesterday

http://www.thisisjersey.com/news/news4.html


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## Bagshanty

With all this volatile gas around (Easy Start), wouldn't you expect the odd explosion or two as the gas found the fridge pilot light?


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## 100970

I read with interest the cavalier remarks made by some regarding gassing.
I can assure you this does happen quite frequently on the continent, it has been going on for many years in the South of Italy with HGV drivers being gassed and robbed.
There is now an alarming upsurge of this practice just across the English Channel at Dunkirk. Indeed my Brother disembarked of "Norfolk Line Ferry" in the early hours of Monday morning and parked up to get some sleep. He and his wife awoke in in morning feeling sick and with terrible headaches and found everything of value had been stolen, Passports, credit cards all his money master key for MH, also house keys navigation (sat Nav) he then spent until today parked in the Police Compound until they could get him a permit in liue of Passports and await money from Visa.
The Police informed him that indeed he was the victim of a Gas attack and this is happening all the time, the Police say they are Romanian immigrants .
So please if anybody is going on the continent be awre that this crime is going on and is real.These people do not care if they overdose you or kill you, it is common knowledge these are hardened thugs.
Just think shortly they will be alolowed in this country when their country becomes a member of the EC, .
Leighton


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## geraldandannie

Very sorry to hear about your brother's loss. Very traumatic.

So if the 'Romanians' are in France doing this gassing, why do they have to wait until they're members of the EU before they can come to the UK?

Welcome to the forum, by the way. You might consider the investment of £10 to enable you to continue posting your introductory 10 posts. I'm sure you'll find it worth it.

Gerald


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## 100970

gerannpasa said:


> Very sorry to hear about your brother's loss. Very traumatic.
> 
> So if the 'Romanians' are in France doing this gassing, why do they have to wait until they're members of the EU before they can come to the UK?
> 
> Welcome to the forum, by the way. You might consider the investment of £10 to enable you to continue posting your introductory 10 posts. I'm sure you'll find it worth it.
> 
> Gerald


The point I was making regarding these undesirables is that there will be a flood of criminals(as well as law abiding) entering the UK legally when the countries concerned join the EU, but more importantly making people aware of the fact that this type of crime takes place and one should park up with caution, the price of a Gas Detector £60 to £100 is money well spent compared to being robbed and worse still killed. Thinking about it all motorhomes and households should have a Gas monitor in case of Gas leaks (LPG) and Carbon Monoxide poisoning etc.
Best regards
Leighton


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## geraldandannie

So, all of a sudden there's going to be a "flood of criminals" and "undesirables" coming to the UK when these countries join the EU is there? :roll: This is heading into xenophobe territory.

Your advice about gas detectors may have some merit, for those that might be worried about gas attacks. However, advice about physical security of the van is more relevent, I think. If they can't get in, they can't steal, no matter whether you're gassed, asleep, or down the pub. 

We've had these 'gassing' discussions before. 

Gerald


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## 100970

gerannpasa said:


> So, all of a sudden there's going to be a "flood of criminals" and "undesirables" coming to the UK when these countries join the EU is there? :roll: This is heading into xenophobe territory.
> 
> Your advice about gas detectors may have some merit, for those that might be worried about gas attacks. However, advice about physical security of the van is more relevent, I think. If they can't get in, they can't steal, no matter whether you're gassed, asleep, or down the pub.
> 
> We've had these 'gassing' discussions before.
> 
> Gerald


I agree if they can not get in they can,t steal but in my brothers case they broke the PVC windows, I should imagine to a seasoned criminal a motorhome must be a "piece of cake" to enter.
Without heading too much into xenophobe territory I must admit it does cause me some concern as to the direction this country is heading, that is of course if we are to believe everything the media tells us.
Going back to my original thread regarding my brothers incident , he is 66 years old and not long had a quad heart bypass this trip/holiday for him was to be something special and as I said within two hours of landing in France everything went pear shaped and indeed things could have turned out much worse.
However, if this little discussion helps to prevent somebody else getting robbed whether it be by gassing or any other means it has done some good.


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## Pusser

http://www.cargosecurityinternational.com/channeldetail.asp?cid=8&caid=3851

Above...incidents concerning lorries throughout Europe. One piece I extracted

Belgium, October 2004 - Belgian police comment on "gas attacks"

The Belgian police have received reports from drivers about incidents where they say they have been incapacitated by sleeping gas. There is nevertheless a level of scepticism amongst police over some of these reports, not least because no evidence of gas usage has ever been discovered during investigations and no trace has been noted by doctors who have examined alleged victims (blood analysis). Moreover some drivers, who reported being gassed, were subsequently discovered to be involved in the theft.


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## chrisgog

Leigh,
Where exactly was your brother parked up? Was it by the port with the lories or another area..
A lot of us park at Malo les Baines.
Chris


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## krull

Gas attacks still sounds like paranoid rubbish to me. 

Having spent years trying to start vintage boat engines, with the engine compartment dripping with easi-start, never had a whiff of a headache. No-one can explain how a exteremely flammable gas can flood a camper and not go bang from the fridge pilot light.


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## 100970

chrisgog said:


> Leigh,
> Where exactly was your brother parked up? Was it by the port with the lories or another area..
> A lot of us park at Malo les Baines.
> Chris


As far as I know he parked where the lorries park at the Port in Dunkirk, I just don't understand why so many people are all too ready to dismiss this kind of theft as just a folly.I can assure people my brother is a genuine victim he was a successful business man owning three engineering companies till he retired.
Some people dismiss these gassings saying no traces are found in blood tests,to find any traces of gassings the blood would have to be taken from an artery not from a vein a very painful excercise, I know, as I have had this done in hospital through being gassed with SO2 gas in my employment.
Over the years I have spent much time abroad with my job and I can recall back in 1974 this kind of robbery was well known in Italy so this is not a new thing.
The only reason I first put this thread on the site was to bring it to the attention of other travellers, but to be honest I wish I had not bothered with so much negative response.
All I can say to fellow travellers is just to be aware.
Best regards
Leighton


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## Pusser

leigh said:


> chrisgog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leigh,
> Where exactly was your brother parked up? Was it by the port with the lories or another area..
> A lot of us park at Malo les Baines.
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know he parked where the lorries park at the Port in Dunkirk, I just don't understand why so many people are all too ready to dismiss this kind of theft as just a folly.I can assure people my brother is a genuine victim he was a successful business man owning three engineering companies till he retired.
> Some people dismiss these gassings saying no traces are found in blood tests,to find any traces of gassings the blood would have to be taken from an artery not from a vein a very painful excercise, I know, as I have had this done in hospital through being gassed with SO2 gas in my employment.
> Over the years I have spent much time abroad with my job and I can recall back in 1974 this kind of robbery was well known in Italy so this is not a new thing.
> The only reason I first put this thread on the site was to bring it to the attention of other travellers, but to be honest I wish I had not bothered with so much negative response.
> All I can say to fellow travellers is just to be aware.
> Best regards
> Leighton
Click to expand...

I certainly would not dismiss this out of hand. My problems is that after what must be many gas attacks reported when investigated nothing appears to be evidence that this has happened. Of course, this does not mean it has not happened. But despite searching high and low on the internet for what must be over a year since this topic was raised I still cannot find out what gas was used, where the gas is put in, no deaths or serious injury all of which by now I would have thought would be public knowledge by now.

We did have an anethetist on here who obviously working with gas for a living so to speak has stated quite catagorically that to get someone to sleep with gas is a difficult balancing act and the difference between slumber and death is not wide. He also pointed out that the amount of gas that would be needed to have any affect would be huge in the confines of a motorhome. Again, just because he said that is no more proof to me than those saying they have been gassed.

But one has to compare the method and affect and the substance and the delivery of that substance against the simple "I've been gassed" statement. What is of no doubt is the people have been robbed of course.

In summary it is obvious that you believe this happened and even more so your dad but without being rude this situation is no different than any other where evidence is pretty limited if non existant. One would have expected the Russians who gassed the school would have done a better job had they used the robbers gas rather that the state of the art WMD.


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## 100970

chrisgog said:


> Leigh,
> Where exactly was your brother parked up? Was it by the port with the lories or another area..
> A lot of us park at Malo les Baines.
> Chris


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## 100970

Pusser said:


> leigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chrisgog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leigh,
> Where exactly was your brother parked up? Was it by the port with the lories or another area..
> A lot of us park at Malo les Baines.
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know he parked where the lorries park at the Port in Dunkirk, I just don't understand why so many people are all too ready to dismiss this kind of theft as just a folly.I can assure people my brother is a genuine victim he was a successful business man owning three engineering companies till he retired.
> Some people dismiss these gassings saying no traces are found in blood tests,to find any traces of gassings the blood would have to be taken from an artery not from a vein a very painful excercise, I know, as I have had this done in hospital through being gassed with SO2 gas in my employment.
> Over the years I have spent much time abroad with my job and I can recall back in 1974 this kind of robbery was well known in Italy so this is not a new thing.
> The only reason I first put this thread on the site was to bring it to the attention of other travellers, but to be honest I wish I had not bothered with so much negative response.
> All I can say to fellow travellers is just to be aware.
> Best regards
> Leighton
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I certainly would not dismiss this out of hand. My problems is that after what must be many gas attacks reported when investigated nothing appears to be evidence that this has happened. Of course, this does not mean it has not happened. But despite searching high and low on the internet for what must be over a year since this topic was raised I still cannot find out what gas was used, where the gas is put in, no deaths or serious injury all of which by now I would have thought would be public knowledge by now.
> 
> We did have an anethetist on here who obviously working with gas for a living so to speak has stated quite catagorically that to get someone to sleep with gas is a difficult balancing act and the difference between slumber and death is not wide. He also pointed out that the amount of gas that would be needed to have any affect would be huge in the confines of a motorhome. Again, just because he said that is no more proof to me than those saying they have been gassed.
> 
> But one has to compare the method and affect and the substance and the delivery of that substance against the simple "I've been gassed" statement. What is of no doubt is the people have been robbed of course.
> 
> In summary it is obvious that you believe this happened and even more so your dad but without being rude this situation is no different than any other where evidence is pretty limited if non existant. One would have expected the Russians who gassed the school would have done a better job had they used the robbers gas rather that the state of the art WMD.
Click to expand...

Here is a quote from the UK Foreign Office regarding this topic, as you can see they accept there is a problem with gassing.
Mugging incidents have occurred at isolated rest areas on some French motorways, usually those without petrol stations and cafeterias. There is also a continuing problem of burglaries taking place during the night whilst travellers have been asleep in their caravans, mobile homes or other vehicles. *In a number of these cases, victims had first been rendered unconscious by the thieves using gas.* Try to avoid parking in isolated or dark areas of camping grounds or car parks, and consider installing an alarm in your caravan or mobile home.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front...7029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618385929FOREIGN & COMMONWEALTH OFFICE TRAVEL ADVICE


----------



## geraldandannie

We have seen reports of these gas attacks. Many on here are practical people, and maintain and improve their motorhomes themselves.

If someone was to post "my wheel dropped off, and I've heard it's happened to a number of people", we don't rush out and tighten our wheelnuts. We say "how can that happen then?"

So it is with the gassing. But whenever someone asks "how can that happen?", the poster gets annoyed, and accuses the respondents of not believing them, of being unfriendly, all osrts. They say "but it happened. I know it happened. Why don't you just accept it?"

The answer is because we're not sure how it can happen. Will buying a gas alarm stop you from being robbed? How do we know? We are inquisitive. Should we close all our windows? Should we open our windows? What sort of gas should we be detecting? Should we seal all vents? Should we turn our fridges off? Should we leave a candle burning?

Pusser's post put it more succinctly than I can. Whenever someone comes on here to warn us, like you did, will continue to ask questions. Please don't take offence. You will see from the (much) earlier poster that this comes up every so often, but never does anyone have a clue how it happens. Quoting the police, the F&CO, personal anecdotes doesn't help us protect our vans, and keep us safe.

Once again, my sympathies to your brother. I hope he recovers from his ordeal soon.

Gerald


----------



## Telbell

....and the F&CO can only report what has, in turn, been reported to them....so we don't seem any further on to establishing evidence and answering the points Gerald makes.


----------



## Hub

Would our gas detector/alarms work on any other type of gas introduced into the van?


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## 100970

Hub said:


> Would our gas detector/alarms work on any other type of gas introduced into the van?


The gas detector for gas attacks would pick up other gas leaks such as LPG and Butane.
Before I retired I was involved in the production of Pure Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen and anaesthetic gasses etc and had to constantly wear a Monitor which cost our company around £800 each, these monitors measured in Parts Per Million not in % so were very accurate aftershave could set them off also methane gas (flatulence).If the working inviroment reached only 50ppm it was either evacuate or wear a BA set. So if somebody is actually sleeping and a narcotic or gas was introduced it would keep that person in a state of sleep.
I mentioned earlier I was once gassed with SO2 (sulphur dioxide) where the gas seeped through a bad seal on my mask and it took no time at all to take effect...minutes.!! and that was in the open air, that put me in hospital for two weeks.
So I think I am a little qualified having worked in the production of various gasses.Including phosgene which was used as a carrier for mustard gas.
I still urge people to take this more seriously.


----------



## sallytrafic

Hub said:


> Would our gas detector/alarms work on any other type of gas introduced into the van?


Combustible gas detectors work by oxidising the gas on a catalyst this heats up a resistance wire and this change of resistance triggers an alarm. Different gases create different amounts of heat so all though generally all combustible gases will be detected the amount of gas necessary to trigger an alarm will vary between gases. I imagine the makers of detectors for butane/propane optimise their sensor for those gases and make no claim for other combustible gases.

Regards Frank


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## Telbell

So it seems then, in the absence of knowing exactly which gases are used in the alleged "robbery using gas" that we will need to use a fair number of different gas alarm systems to be reasonably confident of being safe?


----------



## sallytrafic

Telbell said:



> So it seems then, in the absence of knowing exactly which gases are used in the alleged "robbery using gas" that we will need to use a fair number of different gas alarm systems to be reasonably confident of being safe?


Fair comment, but not just the type, positioning would also come into it. Propane and butane being heavier than air are mounted low down and near to the possible source certainly between the source and any likely ignition point.

Regards Frank


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## Telbell

Thanks Frank-I'd now be interested to hear from anyone who has gone down the Gas Alarm route as to which alarm(s) they have gone for and their rationale for choosing that route!


----------



## Pusser

leigh said:


> Hub said:
> 
> 
> 
> that put me in hospital for two weeks.
> So I think I am a little qualified having worked in the production of various gasses.Including phosgene which was used as a carrier for mustard gas.
> I still urge people to take this more seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> That is one of my doubts. No one as far as I know has been put in hospital for any weeks or any days as far as I have been able to ascertain and to think that these robbers get just the right amount of gas per different size vans, just to knock them out without any serious health damage at least shows they are caring robbers.
> 
> I think most robbers must take into account the risk and would they risk murder for a few credit cards and cameras. Surely they would be more successful with greater rewards doing houses or even shops when the punishment will be the same if caught but the rewards much higher.
> 
> p.s. forgot a bit. So to try and narrow down which gas they are using we are looking for a gas that does not ignite from open flame, does not smell, does not leave any trace in the van, is easily transportable, is powerful enough to fill the van and put people to sleep but is not dangerous to human health. What gas would this be?
Click to expand...


----------



## Telbell

Presumably, Pusser, one of the experts in "matters of gas" who have previously posted on this, and similar threads, will be able to quickly tell us so that we can buy and install the appropriate alarm.
(Given Leigh's experience of being hospitalised, I take it we can exclude Sulphur Dioxide-can we narrow it down any further??)


----------



## chrisgog

What is most worrying is that this happened in Dunkeque. Many of us use Norfolkline and I for one was not happy parking amongst the lorries and decided to move onto Malo. i suggested to Norfolkline that a stopover carpark for motorhomes and caravans should be considered as there is nothing suitable if you arrive late at night or are on an early ferry.
Maybe one or two of us should e-mail Norfolkline with this suggestion as they are a forward thinking company and must realise that many of us are regular customers.


I would very much like to thank Leigh for making us aware of this incident as we will all now be on our guard in this area. Dunkirk is becomimg more popular with more crossings and I am glad we have been notified of this.
Friends were shopping in Decathlon in Northern Spain last week, near Santander, the night before they returned home and their side window had been forced open (A sliding window) and the blinds damaged . Luckily for them their van bitz alarm scared them off when they tried to get in so again the warning is to be prepared. Luckily the alarm prevented them taking anything.
Thanks Leigh, careful you don't run out of postings as you only have 10 if not a member
Chris


----------



## Pusser

I too value Leighs posts and hope he joins to continue the debate. Whatever the in and outs are, these stories just do make us more aware of personal security and there can never be too many reminders. It is these debates that hopefully will find the definative gas and the correct gas alarm. I did wonder where people who have them stick them. I assume they should be as foot level.


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## chrisgog

Pusser,
I was lucky and won one in MMM 2 YEARS AGO. We have it all set up in the van ready to use but we have never ever felt the need to use it even though we park on aires? Maybe we should? I don't know.

Mind you , I would never wild camp/aire without the alarm on for sure.
Chris


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## C7KEN

Even if we have doubts about the use of gas there are still a lot of folks getting breakins so I hope you have all read previous posts on this and fitted panic alarms to all doors when in the van for the night they *will *wake you, someone skillfully sneaking into a motorhome without alarms obviously does not, I'm trying to get info of the local Policia and Garda regarding the use of gas but I tend to think it's the easy thing to blame just like they blame immigrants from east europe for burglaries when some are definately down to Spanish and English


----------



## ojibway

*Hi Leigh and welcome to the site.
Thanks for your valuable contribution.
Whilst this subject may have been discussed before (I have not read any previous threads), it is sometimes good to remind everybody of things past so they don't get complacent. Your brother's ordeal sounds like the motorhomers worst nightmare.
I am sorry you have had a few negative comments. If it wasn't gas then what sent him into such a deep sleep that intruders could break in and make off with a whole lot of valuables?
Thanks again,
Mike.

ps. I started this thread as a result of a similar one on the www.campingcar-infos.com website refering to a first hand experience to a gas attack. The victim had a lot of sceptical replies. I suppose if it has only happened to a very few people then there will be many sceptics. *


----------



## Pusser

ojibway said:


> *Hi Leigh and welcome to the site.
> Thanks for your valuable contribution.
> Whilst this subject may have been discussed before (I have not read any previous threads), it is sometimes good to remind everybody of things past so they don't get complacent. Your brother's ordeal sounds like the motorhomers worst nightmare.
> I am sorry you have had a few negative comments. If it wasn't gas then what sent him into such a deep sleep that intruders could break in and make off with a whole lot of valuables?
> Thanks again,
> Mike.
> 
> ps. I started this thread as a result of a similar one on the www.campingcar-infos.com website refering to a first hand experience to a gas attack. The victim had a lot of sceptical replies. I suppose if it has only happened to a very few people then there will be many sceptics. *


I do not want anyone to think I am denying the existance of gas attacks. I am Agnostic on this one. Once I know how it is done and what with, I will be the first in the queue for an alarm appropriate to the gas being used.


----------



## geraldandannie

Pusser said:


> I do not want anyone to think I am denying the existance of gas attacks. I am Agnostic on this one. Once I know how it is done and what with, I will be the first in the queue for an alarm appropriate to the gas being used.


Exactly, Pusser. I'm with you 100%.

Gerald


----------



## 100970

Pusser said:


> ojibway said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hi Leigh and welcome to the site.
> Thanks for your valuable contribution.
> Whilst this subject may have been discussed before (I have not read any previous threads), it is sometimes good to remind everybody of things past so they don't get complacent. Your brother's ordeal sounds like the motorhomers worst nightmare.
> I am sorry you have had a few negative comments. If it wasn't gas then what sent him into such a deep sleep that intruders could break in and make off with a whole lot of valuables?
> Thanks again,
> Mike.
> 
> ps. I started this thread as a result of a similar one on the www.campingcar-infos.com website refering to a first hand experience to a gas attack. The victim had a lot of sceptical replies. I suppose if it has only happened to a very few people then there will be many sceptics. *
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want anyone to think I am denying the existence of gas attacks. I am Agnostic on this one. Once I know how it is done and what with, I will be the first in the queue for an alarm appropriate to the gas being used.
Click to expand...

Hi,
This is part of an article from the site of www.jmbadditions.com/gasdetector.php

We are constantly being asked about the threat of people being 'gassed' in their motorcaravans whilst they sleep at night. We have tried to establish what exactly occurs in these attacks and have come to the following conclusions. The frequency of the attacks are less prolific than the general public seem to believe and the length of the attacks are nowhere near as long in duration as most people think.

We have heard the same stories repeated to us over and over again and changing slightly each time we hear them. This leads people to assume that the attacks happen all the time. This also leaves people with huge misconceptions regarding the attack type.

If the gas used has a sufficient narcotic effect to render the occupants unconscious or in an extremely deep sleep, one would have to question how the thieves safely enter the vehicle and rob the occupants without 'falling asleep' themselves. *The reality is that the gas used is, in effect, ether and the most common form of commercially available ether is
'Easy Start' which contains Diethyl ether and Naphtha. This appears to have a cumulative narcotic effect in that it takes some time to reach a point which will render the victim inoperative.* Effectively, if you were asleep after breathing the gas, you would remain asleep through things that would normally wake you up.

We believe that there is sufficient evidence to feel conclusively that such attacks do exist and do threaten the health and safety of our customers. We have had our Gas Alarm fitted which has been under evaluation since January 2002.

The Strikeback T alarm could be turned off by the owner in the usual way but the Gas Alarm will not re-set until the van is safe. This will stop the owner being either drugged or so sleepy that they turn of the Gas Alarm and then fall back into a stupor consequently allowing the thieves to enter the motorhome.

To re-set the Gas Alarm the doors and the windows would have to be opened to flush the dangerous gasses from the motorhome. In turn this would have the added benefit of allowing your body to purge itself of any lingering narcotic gasses and sleepiness.

Web Page Name Gas detectors

Regards Leighton


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## geraldandannie

Right, so a gas alarm seller is telling us that yes, these attacks are happening. So what we should do is ..... :roll:

Gerald

[*Moderator Note ( 20/11/06) :

Since this thread was started new evidence that focuses on the whether an anesthetic gas could being used in robberies has been posted in the News section of Motorhomefacts. You can read this News Item >>HERE <<*


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## Pusser

Well, Ether is a highly volatile and inflammable gas so I am not sure it is this one othewise we should have a flurry of blown up motorhomes particularly those in Aires without elec hookup and using the gas to keep the fridge working.


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## Hub

Sorry to all for bumping this back up but I'm very keen to know what type of gas alarm we should be installing. I mean gases that aren't in normal use in a van.
Or at least a list of the types of gas that it couldn't be for whatever reason?
I'm no scientist so ain't got a clue. :roll:


----------



## Pusser

Hub said:


> Sorry to all for bumping this back up but I'm very keen to know what type of gas alarm we should be installing. I mean gases that aren't in normal use in a van.
> Or at least a list of the types of gas that it couldn't be for whatever reason?
> I'm no scientist so ain't got a clue. :roll:


No need to apologise....most, if not all of us are desperate to know.


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## Telbell

...and might we ever have a potential solution to this from someone who doesn't happen to be in the Gas Alarm retail business? :twisted:


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## Hub

> ...and might we ever have a potential solution to this from someone who doesn't happen to be in the Gas Alarm retail business?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would have thought reatilers of this sort of stuff would certainly have a vested interest. After all once we know what type of gas is being used they'd then be able to sell us two or even more different types of gas detector eh? :roll:

Don't get me wrong......... I'd be first in the queue to buy one if I could be sure that it's gonna do what it says on the tin!


----------



## Pusser

For research purposes I have purchased a can of Easystart, gone inside my motorhome and sprayed myself. It had absolutely n........... :angel:


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## DABurleigh

I guess he finally got his wish and is with his Uncle.

Pusser RIP  

Dave


----------



## Pusser

DABurleigh said:


> I guess he finally got his wish and is with his Uncle.
> 
> Pusser RIP
> 
> Dave


They sent me back as they felt they were not quite ready for the upheaval. 8O


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## DABurleigh

That's a relief. But do you have a headache?


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## Pusser

DABurleigh said:


> That's a relief. But do you have a headache?


Nope. I hvnot knoktice anee halfter afex atall. :drunken:


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## Telbell

...but on a serious note-if "East Start" is the culprit-as has been indicated, it should be a fairly simple task to have it tested/analysed??? Anyone have the facilities/ability/knowledge to do it? On that point, kow come the Gas Alarm company that Leigh mentions hasn't done it?


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## 89090

What I don't get is, most of the incidents seem to relate to gassing abroad. What about in the UK? Are our own crooks not capable of using gas?

ken


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## Hub

> ...but on a serious note-if "East Start" is the culprit-as has been indicated, it should be a fairly simple task to have it tested/analysed??? Anyone have the facilities/ability/knowledge to do it? On that point, kow come the Gas Alarm company that Leigh mentions hasn't done it?


Valid point.......... you'd think that gas detector manufacturers and retailers would be falling over themselves trying to find out the type of gas used. Gonna be a huge market for alarms.



> For research purposes I have purchased a can of Easystart, gone inside my motorhome and sprayed myself. It had absolutely n...........


Looks like Pusser's up for being guinea pig eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Pusser you're a nutcase...........  :lol: :wink:


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## Motorhomersimpson

Hub said:


> Pusser you're a nutcase...........  :lol: :wink:


Probably has something to do with this recent quote by pusser on another gas thread :lol: :lol:

"I may have been gassed before but because I was unconscious, I didn't know I had"

MHS...Rob


----------



## TonyHunt

Very good posts from Leigh. At last people are starting to believe that this does happen. Lorry drivers both here and on the continent have been aware of the gassing problem for some time. Over the last couple of years or so Motorhomers have been targeted more and more. it only costs a small amount to protect ones family from this very real menace, why all the negative comments. Personally I have for some time refused to park on a motorway aire over night wether its on a well lit service station or those out in the country. One can always find an aire or campsite in a village in plenty of time for a good safe nights sleep. Even then I have intruder alarms set on all the large windows inside, the extra Fiamma locks fitted on the inside of my ducatos front doors plus for show more than anything to save damage to the doors a bright coloured chain strung inside between the door handles. I also fitted a gas alarm a couple of years ago just above my bed after very close friends were gassed on a motorway on their way to spain, they lost everything of value in the van.
Outside lights that come on if anyones about are a good idea as is a very big dogs bowl left outside the caravan door. 
Think about it. If one of these thieving gits looks through the front doors and immediatly see a chain stretched between the door handles they are not going to bother to try and smash your door locks. They will more than likely move on to another easier target. The reason they target motorway aires is because they have an immediate swift exit on the motorway from the scene. Give them an easy target and they are going to target you. Next year will probably be even worse when Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants start heading west. By all accounts its the gypsy elements from eastern europe who are the problem.


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## RichardnGill

Hi All, I am just new here (still looking for my first MH) and I have read this tread all the way through with a lot of interest. My Dad use to drive an HGV in most countrys in Europe and was well aware of the rumors of gassing. He has not herd of anyone he knew gassed though. Getting to my main point, I am planning to travel in France and possibly Spain with My MH next year (If I can ever make my mind up what I want) and am worried as my wife and 2 kids will be travelling.
Am I right in thinking if I only use big sites and stay away from service places I will have virtually no problems?

Richard.


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## Pusser

TonyHunt said:


> Very good posts from Leigh. At last people are starting to believe that this does happen. Lorry drivers both here and on the continent have been aware of the gassing problem for some time. Over the last couple of years or so Motorhomers have been targeted more and more. it only costs a small amount to protect ones family from this very real menace, why all the negative comments. Personally I have for some time refused to park on a motorway aire over night wether its on a well lit service station or those out in the country. One can always find an aire or campsite in a village in plenty of time for a good safe nights sleep. Even then I have intruder alarms set on all the large windows inside, the extra Fiamma locks fitted on the inside of my ducatos front doors plus for show more than anything to save damage to the doors a bright coloured chain strung inside between the door handles. I also fitted a gas alarm a couple of years ago just above my bed after very close friends were gassed on a motorway on their way to spain, they lost everything of value in the van.
> Outside lights that come on if anyones about are a good idea as is a very big dogs bowl left outside the caravan door.
> Think about it. If one of these thieving gits looks through the front doors and immediatly see a chain stretched between the door handles they are not going to bother to try and smash your door locks. They will more than likely move on to another easier target. The reason they target motorway aires is because they have an immediate swift exit on the motorway from the scene. Give them an easy target and they are going to target you. Next year will probably be even worse when Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants start heading west. By all accounts its the gypsy elements from eastern europe who are the problem.


Good advice particularly for the poster below which answers the question.
However, I do feel that it is not so much negative comments it is more to do with the info that we can obtain at the moment. e.g. We have had loads of posts on here from people who know or believe they have been gassed then robbed. There are quite a few links on the internet about the same thing and saying the same thing. But the info on all these articles almost boils down to someone who has been robbed saying they were gassed. If we took away all the infomation where people say they have been gassed then there would be nothing on the subject.

My own view is that I just don't know and I am simply waiting to hear just one or two tiny bits of info which support this problem. i.e. what gas. If we don't know what gas how do we know what gas alarm to get. And, if the gas is untraceable in the van or in the body either through residue or smell, then how does the victim know they were gassed. e.g. If I woke up one morning in the van and all had been knicked and I had a humdinger of a headache would that be suficient for me to announce I had been gassed. Well, it is possible I may think there could be no other reason for it but without smell, explosion, or residue etc., how can I say that with certainty.

All other incidents of gas used by governents or terrorists is in the news within days and loads of info on the internet.

So it is not a matter that I and some others do not believe it, it is just that there appears always to be missing what appears to be simple info on method and substance. It is almost the same as suddenly finding a dent in your car and then trying to work out where and what did it. At the end you conclude it was probably done in Tescos or something but of course you could not put money on it. All you do know is that there is a dent in your car.

And not one single manufacturer of gas alarms states which gas is being used and therefore how do we know which gas alarm to get. ANd how does a gas alarm detect a gas that appears to have no properties that are detectable anyway.

So there we are. For me, I am still no wiser except for a multitude of useful and practical safety advice to avoid this possibility whether it is real or not which is good for me. But I cannot go out and buy protection until I know what it is I am protecting myself from.


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## TonyHunt

Richy. Its the Motorway services that are the problem areas and not only in france. Three years ago when we drove through Denmark to Norway we were warned not to stop on any of the service areas on the swedish main roads because of the robbery problems. we just drove a few miles off the motorway and found a small campsite. There are plenty of safe places to stop if you take the trouble to look. Main thing is to use what precautions you can to make the would be thief go elsewhere if they start looking round your van. A white or silver coloured chain between the door handles will hopefully instantly tell them that its a waste of time to try and gain entry that way, as will the little red light flashing on the back of those small stick on window intruder alarms. I bought an extra one of those the other day for 2-3 quid in maplins. If one of those goes off because somebody has tried to rattle your window the whole site will hear it.
I bought a gas alarm that stated on it that it was for Narcotic gas attack. I test it works by clicking a gas lighter near to it. I have seen some alarms that say they detect narcotic and the normal calor type gasses. Better to be safe than sorry rather than wait to hear exactly which gas it is. The chances of being gassed and robbed or just robbed will be greatly reduced if you put a few sensible precautions in their way. Somebody who parks on a motorway with their windows open on a stuffy night is asking for trouble in my book and deserves what they get.


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## bar

*Window stick on alarms*

Tony mentioned these Maplin stick on alarms, have a few questions to him or anyone who has bouht them.

1.Do silver roller blinds interfere with their operation?
2. Can you buy one siren to cover 3 stick on detectors for three windows or do you need to order 3 seperate packs ?
3. Anything that shows intruders that the windows are alarmed at night such as led or anything to stop them before they do any damage.
There are two listed in Maplins mail order ( none at our local shop, Plymouth)
which is better the £3.99 or £4.99?

Or
any other suggestions gratefully recieved.
I already place movement sensors outside & underneath the van when parked somewhere that might cause concern.

Thanks Bar


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## TonyHunt

Bar. They are the little movement sensors at i think 3-99. As soon as somebody moves the window or tries to they go off. Each one has its own alarm. you can stick or hang them on anything.


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## thehutchies

I absolutely agree with the people who have evidence of gas attacks.

However, I am more concerned with the recent reports of a new type of attack becoming prevalent on the continent.

There is increasing evidence of goblin attacks on motorhomes.
These eastern european goblins are known to materialise in motorhomes and render the occupants unconscious by means of a large wooden mallet.
Then they strip the motorhome of valuables which they use to furnish their caves - the more shiny geegaws, the better.

I met a chap in France who swore blind that after a heavy evening on the absinthe his van was attacked by pixies who proceeded to strip it bare of all his most expensive possessions.


I have designed a goblin detector that I am hoping to put into production very soon.
Its sensor will detect goblins, sprites, nymphs, dryads, trolls, dragons, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, naiads, fairies, mermaids and boogie-beasts.
For only £399.99 I can supply a plastic box with lights that will protect you from attack by ethereal beings. There is also a deluxe version for only £449.99 
whose lights flash.

I am sure that we will be hearing much more about this sort of attack, just as soon as someone has an insurance claim approved.

Be afraid.
Be very afraid.


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## 96088

thehutchies said:


> I have designed a goblin detector that I am hoping to put into production very soon. Its sensor will detect goblins, sprites, nymphs, dryads, trolls, dragons, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, naiads, fairies, mermaids and boogie-beasts. For only £399.99 I can supply a plastic box with lights that will protect you from attack by ethereal beings. There is also a deluxe version for only £449.99 whose lights flash.
> .


It doesn't appear to protect us from Gremlins which I'm sure will be in cahoots with at least one of creatures above.

The Gremlin goes in first and then you're stuffed :wink:


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## thehutchies

An additional Gremlin sensor is available for only £99.99


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## TonyHunt

Jest ye at your peril Hutchies your just as likely to be a victim in the future if you treat everything as a big joke.


----------



## homenaway

Having just caught up with this thread, another question occurred to me:

has anyone who has purchased a gas alarm ever had it go off while the're asleep and hence deter a would be robber? 

I've never read a report about their effectiveness in a real situation

Steve


----------



## TonyHunt

We all hope we never hear them in anger but at least we can prime them when the need arises to help protect ourselves.


----------



## bar

*good advice tony*

Having had our van attacked in Italy last year we take our security seriously. Made the mistake of discussing it in the forum used by the Huttchies children. I sincerely hope they do not suffer as we did.Made the further mistake of reading their whole post looking for something sensible.


----------



## geraldandannie

*Re: good advice tony*



bar said:


> Having had our van attacked in Italy last year we take our security seriously.


Attacked? By gas? Or broken into?

Gerald


----------



## TonyHunt

At last another sensible person who knows it can happen, will happen and has had it happen to them. When I first mentioned about gassing on the forum a while ago it was all joked about and treated as urban myth and generally poo pood. All I and a few others have been trying to get across to those who werent aware or are new to motorhoming is to be extra careful especially when on any motorways not only in france either. we have even been accused of scaremongering. Strange attitudes some folk have.


----------



## bar

*attacked in Italy*

Back tyre £120) stabbed by one of three men in a VW Golf, 3pm on forecourt of Turin ringroad service station. witnessed by service station staff, police not interested as it was a regular occurence there. 
Our friends had the side window cut out of their van and the security belt which secured the two front doors was cut through.

There are no valuables which we carry which I would even bother to claim insurance for, I am more interested in deterring thieves who might cause expensive entry damage to the van which will result in escalating premiums.


----------



## TonyHunt

Possesions can be replaced usually on your contents insurance. Like Bar says its the damage they can do and also the harm they could inflict on ones self or family that is the main concern. I plumped for a chain between the front doors because it just might slow them down that bit more than a strap. Thats all you can do is put hurdles in their way to slow them down or put them off.


----------



## geraldandannie

Advice about security of motorhomes is always welcome. The gassing thing is still open to question, in my mind.

Incidentally, Tony, you said your gas sensor is above your bed? Most information about the gas being used indicates that it's heavier than air, and therfore any sensor needs to be at floor level. Just a thought.

Gerald


----------



## TonyHunt

Yes gerald but I figured its gonna end up at floor level after maybe getting me first at bed level. Depends where they squirt it in from of course in the first place. In lorry cabs they reckon they squirt it in through the gap where the foot pedals are. In a motorhome where they would need to get nearer the bed area I would think they would try and prize a gap around windows or doors. You have to try and think on the scum bags level to try and counter them.


----------



## teemyob

*Lets Put this one to Sleep*

Gassed,

Please see the title

Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.

Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.

I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.

I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.

This is my recolection:

I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.

I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.

Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.

However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.

My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.

So let me tell you

Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"

You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.

You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.

Trev


----------



## Pusser

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep*



teemyob said:


> Gassed,
> 
> Please see the title
> 
> Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.
> 
> I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.
> 
> I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.
> 
> This is my recolection:
> 
> I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.
> 
> I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.
> 
> Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.
> 
> However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.
> 
> My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.
> 
> So let me tell you
> 
> Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"
> 
> You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.
> 
> You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.
> 
> Trev


You don't reckon there's anything to this then.


----------



## 100970

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep*



teemyob said:


> Gassed,
> 
> Please see the title
> 
> Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.
> 
> I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.
> 
> I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.
> 
> This is my recolection:
> 
> I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.
> 
> I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.
> 
> Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.
> 
> However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.
> 
> My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.
> 
> So let me tell you
> 
> Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"
> 
> You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.
> 
> You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.
> 
> Trev


Sorry but I must disagree with your point of "not knowing to some degree"if you were being gassed, I said earlier in the thread I regard my self experienced in the uses of various gasses also the dangers and limits in the use of them.
So your argument is if someone is already sleeping they would know if they were being gasses!!!!! what a load of rubbish you talk, when families are gassed in their home with carbon monoxide caused through faulty boilers etc, are you saying they know about it , please don't talk such rubbish and don't dismiss genuine advice given from others. I fist wrote on this thread regarding my brothers incident last week in Dunkerque and quite a few people seem sensible about advice and precautions that can be taken. It annoys me when people such as your self regard good advice with such cavalier attitudes, if this thread has saved only one person from this kind of robbery then it has done some good.
You say you are a mere 41 with around 1,000000 miles under your belt , that is not a lot of miles considering you age as a matter of fact I would regard you a mere novice, I would not even waste my time telling you the milage I have done because it is irrelevant to the argument, its just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I would love to know how you think two people can get their heads down for the night have the windows of the MH smashed and then have the place ransacked and everything of value, money credit cards passports Sat nav plus much more....and sleep right through without even waking up till morning and waking with a severe headache and nausia (thats the two of them) it is behond belief that you can totally dismiss this as "URBAN MYTH" even when the French Police tell them that they were in fact gassed. Does this mean all my thirty odd years of accademic training in the use and production of Liquids and Gasses were all a waste of time and I know nothing!!!
May I suggest to you Sir that when you had Gas 35 years ago for your tooth problem it may have killed a few of your brain cells and cannot learn from other people, or is that an "URBAN MYTH"
I guess there are and always will be people like you who don't like taking advice and think they know everything.

Hope you make another million miles without any problems. But just don't knock other people,s misfortune.


----------



## spykal

Hi leigh

Jumping in quickly with my moderator hat on.... Please, Leigh and all of you, keep the argument friendly or you risk not only the argument but your right to make it here. 

Mod hat off...

You say that a family poisoned by Carbon monoxide would not know about it. I am sure you are right, we have all seen reports that substantiate that, but then by its nature Carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless, tasteless, toxic gas. That is what makes it such a dangerous gas, that and the fact that it is given off by almost all forms of flame powered heating.

So must we be looking for a colorless, odorless, tasteless, toxic or narcotic gas when we are searching for the gas that may/may not be used in these robberies. As an expert can you tell me why no one has died and of those suspecting that they have been gassed, why none of them have had a blood test, or some such test that would ascertain what gas was used.

and before you jump down on me too... I would point out that I am like an agnostic on this subject....I am wary that it may be happening but I would really like some hard proof put on record.....but that is just me.

Mike


----------



## vardy

*None of this info is wasted.*

I am still here, creeping around in the background, soaking up everything I can, with an open mind. All of your thoughts and comments are noted, for when I get operational. A few differences of opinion are irrelevant to me, and useful to balance the knowledge. H xx


----------



## 98585

what a gas this thread is


----------



## Pusser

jimjam said:


> what a gas this thread is


   I've got to the point that I almost want to drive to France and wait until I am gassed to find out what happens. We did have one, perhaps two, fully qualified anethetists on here who commented about this about a year ago. I think on balance their summary of the possibility of this happening had a deep affect on me as they carefully explained how much gas would have to be used, it had to have no taste, smell, no lasting toxisity, and non volatile. What and where do you get this sort of stuff from. Normally almost everything can be found on the internet but so far my efforts have proved negative other than reports of gassing. I would have thought it useful too if the French police found out what it is so anyone that reacts badly too it can get an immediate antidote.

One thing Leigh did mention was that the window was smashed and it didn't wake his relatives up. So the gas must have been administered prior to this event. Where would it be best squirted. Which outside hole is likely to be used.

BUt I am no wiser despite all of this.


----------



## des

does it affect gassing if you are over 7,500kgs (the mh, not the driver)with a car licence, and/or towing on an a-frame? If we could combine these 3 topics, it would run, run & run. might even bring GT back?


----------



## stuffed2

just as a side idea , how do you detect chloroform does it leave any traces, and could it be the thieves gain entry then administer the substance. Also could it be nitros oxide , laughing gas


----------



## 98585

Pusser,

On an earlier thread about Gas (it might have even been this thread) I said that I would only believe it if it happened to you.

*When are you going to be around Lyon next? *

Maybe we could rig up a remote camera, to watch you from this web site while you sleep. At least we could tell you what they did to you if they did gas you and remove your clothes.

Evidence is what we need, and you could provide it Pusser :wink:


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep*



Pusser said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gassed,
> 
> Please see the title
> 
> Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.
> 
> I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.
> 
> I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.
> 
> This is my recolection:
> 
> I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.
> 
> I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.
> 
> Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.
> 
> However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.
> 
> My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.
> 
> So let me tell you
> 
> Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"
> 
> You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.
> 
> You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.
> 
> Trev
> 
> 
> 
> You don't reckon there's anything to this then.
Click to expand...

No Bucket loads more...............

Trev


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep*



leigh said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gassed,
> 
> Please see the title
> 
> Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.
> 
> I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.
> 
> I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.
> 
> This is my recolection:
> 
> I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.
> 
> I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.
> 
> Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.
> 
> However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.
> 
> My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.
> 
> So let me tell you
> 
> Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"
> 
> You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.
> 
> You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.
> 
> Trev
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I must disagree with your point of "not knowing to some degree"if you were being gassed, I said earlier in the thread I regard my self experienced in the uses of various gasses also the dangers and limits in the use of them.
> So your argument is if someone is already sleeping they would know if they were being gasses!!!!! what a load of rubbish you talk, when families are gassed in their home with carbon monoxide caused through faulty boilers etc, are you saying they know about it , please don't talk such rubbish and don't dismiss genuine advice given from others. I fist wrote on this thread regarding my brothers incident last week in Dunkerque and quite a few people seem sensible about advice and precautions that can be taken. It annoys me when people such as your self regard good advice with such cavalier attitudes, if this thread has saved only one person from this kind of robbery then it has done some good.
> You say you are a mere 41 with around 1,000000 miles under your belt , that is not a lot of miles considering you age as a matter of fact I would regard you a mere novice, I would not even waste my time telling you the milage I have done because it is irrelevant to the argument, its just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> I would love to know how you think two people can get their heads down for the night have the windows of the MH smashed and then have the place ransacked and everything of value, money credit cards passports Sat nav plus much more....and sleep right through without even waking up till morning and waking with a severe headache and nausia (thats the two of them) it is behond belief that you can totally dismiss this as "URBAN MYTH" even when the French Police tell them that they were in fact gassed. Does this mean all my thirty odd years of accademic training in the use and production of Liquids and Gasses were all a waste of time and I know nothing!!!
> May I suggest to you Sir that when you had Gas 35 years ago for your tooth problem it may have killed a few of your brain cells and cannot learn from other people, or is that an "URBAN MYTH"
> I guess there are and always will be people like you who don't like taking advice and think they know everything.
> 
> Hope you make another million miles without any problems. But just don't knock other people,s misfortune.
Click to expand...

Hello there,

Thanks for your reply to our post, well the reason I replied was to dispel urban myth as we know it.

If you were to consider buying, hiring or even borrowing a motorhome then surely reading a negative post on here regarding this issue would put you off.

If I act daft with knife I may cut myself
If someone else acts daft with knife he/she may cut him/herslef
If both of us act daft with knives we may both get realy hurt or even die

So if we are are so self aware why get in the bloody van in the first place after all if you are not wearing a yellow vest, knife free, sober, have a gas attack alarm, fiamma doorlock, German Shepard the wife kids the hubby and all else then why bother?

I was talking to a very elderly couple recently who despite their age and Gypsy apperance, have been touring Europe for over 60 years and when I mentioned gas the they smirked. The Lady was in a wheelchair aged 70+, Her Husband (even older according to the old dear) reveresed before I could have found the cog itself.

If you have been effected by any actions of GAS ATTACK then I am truly sorry but I have had toothache real bad.

If you have been gassed then tell the copper you drove at 186 miles an hour to get it done.

Elton John


----------



## 97201

Don't know how to do a LINK thingy but if you look at my post THIS IS NOT A JOKE in the Off Topic forum, you will see I had a situation at home with an intruder. The main point was that my stairs creak very loudly (just like me  ) and I didn't hear a thing! :roll: :roll: 

We do sleep more deeply than we think (I always thought I was a light sleeper), tho' must admit I didn't wake with a headache/nausia etc.

Ian


----------



## geraldandannie

Occasionally, I run through this topic (usually, when I'm cycling to work, trying to avoid the bozos enclosed in their tin boxes).

Like others, I don't know whether to believe or not.

Some people appear, don't spend their £10, tell us time and again "IT HAPPENED", and disappear. Some people come on, and tell us "it's impossible".

To me, there are four groups of people

1) Those, like me, who are concerned, but not panic-stricken, looking for the truth
2) Those who say it's all hogwash, and can't happen
3) Those who say it does happen, 'cos it happened to them / their brother / their friend / whatever
4) Those who repeat the warnings without actual evidence, maybe with something to gain:
4a) Gas alarm sellers, be they overt or covert
4b) Journalists, who may wish to promote the stories for their own ends

This latter category worries me. Mike Cazalet, who appeared on Richard and Judy with those two powerboat racers who lost £10,000 in a gassing incident, recently answered a question in Practical Motorhome (I think it was), stating "gassing incidents in Calais are on the increase...". Are they? Are they _really_? I'm sure he's a decent honest chap, but I can see someone who isn't decent and honest wishing to milk this situation, and become the 'gassing expert', willing to appear on any TV or radio program, or in any publication, telling us how much of an epidemic this is.

Mind you, I am a bit concerned over how vans can be robbed, windows smashed, dogs bypassed, beds walked upon, without anyone waking up, or any alarms going off.

Maybe Pusser would signwrite his van with "ROLEX WATCH SALES - ask the driver for a demonstration", drive to the south of France / Spain, only staying in motorway service area, with the aforementioned mobile webcam. THEN we'd have the proof, and the subject can be put to rest :roll:

Gerald


----------



## geraldandannie

camperian said:


> Don't know how to do a LINK thingy but if you look at my post THIS IS NOT A JOKE in the Off Topic forum, you will see I had a situation at home with an intruder. The main point was that my stairs creak very loudly (just like me  ) and I didn't hear a thing! :roll: :roll:
> 
> We do sleep more deeply than we think (I always thought I was a light sleeper), tho' must admit I didn't wake with a headache/nausia etc.
> 
> Ian


Ian - that's a good point. No one is saying that robberies don't happen. They do, and a very traumatic time it is for all concerned. But what gets people's goat is the stories about gas attacks. This makes it so much more sinister.

I forgot the mention in my previous post the guy who, on here, admitted that reporting he'd been gassed *DOUBLED* his insurance payout. What better incentive is there to continue to perpetuate the myth, if myth it be?

Gerald


----------



## 97201

Hi Gerald

In response to your first post after mine, I reckon I'm in group 1.

As to your 2nd, totally agree. I always thought that if someone were to break into my van while I was asleep ready to gas me, the movement of the van itself would wake me. If the intruder (who *very* luckily for me was non-threatening hadn't openned the curtains which made a loud cracking noise in the wind we had I reckon I would have carried on sleeping.

Ian


----------



## Pusser

Ding :idea: 

What would happen if a robber covered the fridge vent and waited. How long would it take for carbon monoxide to build up sufficiently to make you sleep deeper. Maybe this is a possibility as this gas is tasteless, smelless although I suspect it must be detectable in the blood afterwards and extremely life threatening. Perhaps its time for us to get a budgie in a cage with a pressure sensitve bottom too it. When the budgie kicks the bucket, he falls off his perch, hits the pressure pad which sounds an alarm with activates the opening of all windows to let the gas out, automatically dials the emergency services and lights the gas stove to boil the kettle so you can have a nice cup of tea while you recover.

I should be in design and marketing. 8) I am absolutely wasted on here. 8)

(No animals were hurt during my experiments except eleven budgies)


----------



## 101075

*Gassings, robbers, and murdering Elves*

Hi one and all

I am very new to this Motorhoming malarcky, still waiting to pick up my new Besseccar E435.
I have been reading all the threads with great interest and picked up many useful tips and ideas.

However I had had illusions of peacefull weekends away in nice surrondings with good company and having the crack, then having a nice peacefull nights kip setting me up for the next weeks daily grind.
Now after following this thread I am going to be bricking it at night, it appears that if I am not gassed by a Eastern european gypo that the Pixies, elves, goblins are out to get me and part me from my hard earned. 
Still the thieving miscreants won't need to gas me I will probably have to take a sleeping pill to get some kip anyway.

I remember stories a few years back when in Majorca people where getting gassed in their villas and robbed, ex Russian speciel forces where getting the blame that time.

All joking aside the jury is still out for me on this gassing thing, but it has done one thing it has made me more aware of the possible security issues both personally when asleep and for the van and its contents when it is left unatended, so for that the whole debate has been worthwhile.

Dane


----------



## geraldandannie

Pusser said:


> I am absolutely wasted on here. 8)


I sometimes think the fact that you're wasted explains a lot of your posts, Pusser :wink:

Diabolo, I think you've hit the nail on the head, and that's why some of us ask the questions of 'gassees', and get the flak from them in return. No one wants to put off a newcomer to motorhoming, nor create panic when there's no need. For me, it's a fairly simple matter of security of the van. If they can't get in, they can't nick anything, me being gassed or not.

Gerald


----------



## Telbell

I'm a "1" as well. Just read the CC mag come through door. Article on a couple who were (allegedly) gassed twice-France and Spain "when an ether based substance was pumped into their motor caravan"

How the hell do they know it was "Ether-based" (been there before on previous threads). How was it done?

The mag finishes off (of course) by warning people to stop only on "proper" campsites :roll:


----------



## Pusser

Telbell said:


> I'm a "1" as well. Just read the CC mag come through door. Article on a couple who were (allegedly) gassed twice-France and Spain "when an ether based substance was pumped into their motor caravan"
> 
> How the hell do they know it was "Ether-based" (been there before on previous threads). How was it done?
> 
> The mag finishes off (of course) by warning people to stop only on "proper" campsites :roll:


It means ether this one or that one.


----------



## Telbell

................or the other one :roll:


----------



## vardy

*Ooooo errrrr!*

Yipes! - all my life, one whiff of carbon monoxide/ether fumes ( bl**dy handicap being a nurse ) even a nobo marker, and I've 'done it' - on the floor in one! - Have to remember to wear 3 pairs of thick knickers if likely to be in nobo presentation with dodgy company. Point of this is HELP! - With all different things I've read on here about fuel and fridge and battery gasses, it seems I'll have to take extra special safety measures. Like what? - I don't want to buy a van then have to put stuff in afterwards ( or take it out ). As I'm going days/weekends, what do I need re: fridge/cooker/batteries/heating Off hook up I reckon I'll need minimal everything gassy - but what exactly? ( type of fridge/ cooker/ vents etc. - The Budgie :angel10:


----------



## krull

Telbell said:


> The mag finishes off (of course) by warning people to stop only on "proper" campsites :roll:


Well what a surprise there. They would wouldn't they. They along with everyone involved in this seem to have a intrest in promoting gas attacks.

Until i receive proof (ie a exploded van from filling with ether, somone dying, bloodtests being positive, abandonned equipment being found, harm to pets etc. etc.) I will continue to dismiss it all as rubbish.

Remember, when anesthetised, it is a fine line between life and death, and no-one has died. More than likely they have been done over after too much beaujolais and are looking for a reason not to feel such a tit.

WHERE IS THE PROOF???


----------



## Telbell

....or (as someone said in a previous post, the Insurance payouit justifies a cry of "gassing"

Krull's comments echo mine to a great degree but...in the very back of my mind there's always the "what if?" syndrome- and there again if we took notice of all the "what if's" we'd never go out.

I know this subject has been done to death but I agree that it's really weird there is no evidence at all that any gassing has taken place.

On another thread (can't remember which there's been so many) someone asked if there had been reports of gassing in the UK. I don't recollect seeing any resonse to that question. Surely if there had, our professional and reliable Police Service would have properly investigated such claims, searched for evidence (including insisting on a medical examination of the victims) and then once and for all made a decision as to whether the allegation was substantiated or not, and the File recorded appropriately..at least that's what I would have done if I was still in the job!!!

I find it weird that the gassing activities of the scroats abroad have not spread to this country as our low-life over here can certainly compete with foreign villains. (not wishing to tempt fate of course!)


----------



## 100970

*UPDATE ON GAS ATTACKS IN FRANCE*



TonyHunt said:


> Very good posts from Leigh. At last people are starting to believe that this does happen. Lorry drivers both here and on the continent have been aware of the gassing problem for some time. Over the last couple of years or so Motorhomers have been targeted more and more. it only costs a small amount to protect ones family from this very real menace, why all the negative comments. Personally I have for some time refused to park on a motorway aire over night wether its on a well lit service station or those out in the country. One can always find an aire or campsite in a village in plenty of time for a good safe nights sleep. Even then I have intruder alarms set on all the large windows inside, the extra Fiamma locks fitted on the inside of my ducatos front doors plus for show more than anything to save damage to the doors a bright coloured chain strung inside between the door handles. I also fitted a gas alarm a couple of years ago just above my bed after very close friends were gassed on a motorway on their way to spain, they lost everything of value in the van.
> Outside lights that come on if anyones about are a good idea as is a very big dogs bowl left outside the caravan door.
> Think about it. If one of these thieving gits looks through the front doors and immediatly see a chain stretched between the door handles they are not going to bother to try and smash your door locks. They will more than likely move on to another easier target. The reason they target motorway aires is because they have an immediate swift exit on the motorway from the scene. Give them an easy target and they are going to target you. Next year will probably be even worse when Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants start heading west. By all accounts its the gypsy elements from eastern europe who are the problem.


My brother arrived home today and has updated me as to what happened in the Robbery I mentioned earlier in this thread.In actual fact it was the Police who proved to my Brother he was gassed, they took swabs from the MH for analysis and it turned out to be a gas used by vets to knock out animals. All this happened within two hours of parking up. The incident took place between Dunkirk and Lille near a Carrefour service station.
In the area where the robbery took place there had been twelve such attacks in fifteen days, on the wednesday two days after my brother incident the Police were going to set a trap for the thieves by having a MH as a decoy with Police inside the van waiting for the thieves, as yet I have no information of the outcome of the progress of that exercise.They entered my brothers Knaus MH by taking out the quarter window in the cab, simply by removing the rubber seal.
Regards
Leighton


----------



## sallytrafic

*Re: UPDATE ON GAS ATTACKS IN FRANCE*



leigh said:


> TonyHunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very good posts from Leigh. At last people are starting to believe that this does happen. Lorry drivers both here and on the continent have been aware of the gassing problem for some time. Over the last couple of years or so Motorhomers have been targeted more and more. it only costs a small amount to protect ones family from this very real menace, why all the negative comments. Personally I have for some time refused to park on a motorway aire over night wether its on a well lit service station or those out in the country. One can always find an aire or campsite in a village in plenty of time for a good safe nights sleep. Even then I have intruder alarms set on all the large windows inside, the extra Fiamma locks fitted on the inside of my ducatos front doors plus for show more than anything to save damage to the doors a bright coloured chain strung inside between the door handles. I also fitted a gas alarm a couple of years ago just above my bed after very close friends were gassed on a motorway on their way to spain, they lost everything of value in the van.
> Outside lights that come on if anyones about are a good idea as is a very big dogs bowl left outside the caravan door.
> Think about it. If one of these thieving gits looks through the front doors and immediatly see a chain stretched between the door handles they are not going to bother to try and smash your door locks. They will more than likely move on to another easier target. The reason they target motorway aires is because they have an immediate swift exit on the motorway from the scene. Give them an easy target and they are going to target you. Next year will probably be even worse when Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants start heading west. By all accounts its the gypsy elements from eastern europe who are the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> My brother arrived home today and has updated me as to what happened in the Robbery I mentioned earlier in this thread.In actual fact it was the Police who proved to my Brother he was gassed, they took swabs from the MH for analysis and it turned out to be a gas used by vets to knock out animals. All this happened within two hours of parking up. The incident took place between Dunkirk and Lille near a Carrefour service station.
> In the area where the robbery took place there had been twelve such attacks in fifteen days, on the wednesday two days after my brother incident the Police were going to set a trap for the thieves by having a MH as a decoy with Police inside the van waiting for the thieves, as yet I have no information of the outcome of the progress of that exercise.They entered my brothers Knaus MH by taking out the quarter window in the cab, simply by removing the rubber seal.
> Regards
> Leighton
Click to expand...

And the name odf this gas is?

Regards Frank


----------



## DABurleigh

We'll never know unless Leigh subscribes :-(

Dave


----------



## gaspode

DABurleigh said:


> We'll never know unless Leigh subscribes :-(
> 
> Dave


(Puts on cynical hat) But he won't Dave will he? :wink:

(Takes off cynical hat)

If he does subscribe - and comes up with some names, dates and verifiable facts then I think Nuke ought to refund his tenner, if Nuke doesn't then I will. 8)

It would be worth it to dispel this topic once and for all - but for the moment I will put the cynical hat back on and await developments. :wink:


----------



## Pusser

I thought the gas that knocks out animals is the same one that knocks us out in hosptial but different quantities or thickness. If that was the case then the occupants would be rolling around the van in fits of laughter before nodding off.  Obviously a clue to look out for when travelling. Trouble is that in our motorhome we are often in fits of laughter so we won't really know if it is gas or another one of my stupid mistakes.


----------



## bognormike

*Re: UPDATE ON GAS ATTACKS IN FRANCE*

from Leigh:-

My brother arrived home today and has updated me as to what happened in the Robbery I mentioned earlier in this thread.In actual fact it was the Police who proved to my Brother he was gassed, they took swabs from the MH for analysis and it turned out to be a gas used by vets to knock out animals. All this happened within two hours of parking up. The incident took place between Dunkirk and Lille near a Carrefour service station.
In the area where the robbery took place there had been twelve such attacks in fifteen days, on the wednesday two days after my brother incident the Police were going to set a trap for the thieves by having a MH as a decoy with Police inside the van waiting for the thieves, as yet I have no information of the outcome of the progress of that exercise.They entered my brothers Knaus MH by taking out the quarter window in the cab, simply by removing the rubber seal.
Regards
Leighton[/quote]

The point here is that it would appear somebody broke in to the van before knocking the occupants out with whatever anesthetic agent they used. No gas being pumped in to the van, just a break in. As has been pointed out before, this is the most rational scenario. 
The nonsense about gas being pumped in to the van in huge quantities and at huge cost, and at even huger risk to the occpuants and perpetrators in terms of fire and death, and without any external evidence of such, should at last be discounted? :?:


----------



## Telbell

....so if you prevent the unlawful entry in the first place you'll prevent the use of "gas"- sounds reasonable. But you'll also prevent the theft of possessions irrespective of whether gas is used. \So is "Gas" a superfluous red herring in all this?

Jury's stillout so far as I'm concerned.


----------



## geraldandannie

Telbell said:


> Jury's stillout so far as I'm concerned.


Same here, although there was a suggestion (about 3,800 posts ago) that a gas was sprayed actually into the faces of the occupants, thus allowing the miscreant time to wander around the van, looking in cupboards etc without the owners waking up.

But, like you Tel, I feel that if you stop the blighters getting in, you'll be safe. In that case, an ultrasonic alarm in the cab area would have triggered, thus waking the occupants before getting near to them with their spray stuff.

Gerald


----------



## TonyHunt

All you need then is the fiamma deadbolts on the inside of the doors and a chain & padlock between the doors instead of a strap which is easily cut. The only problem would be a chain & padlock of the stronger uncutable type would be very expensive. The cheap ultrasonics from maplins on the front doors and the large windows would stop them gaining entry quietly. We have all this onboard ourselves plus a gas alarm incase. We dont always use all this but i would if I parked on a motorway which is very unlikely as I always make an effort to find somewhere safer to park for the night. A bit OTT maybe but at least weve tried to protect ourselves for not a lot of money. Not like the it can never happen to us brigade who choose to ignore well meaning warnings.


----------



## 101075

*Gassing*

And don't forget the baseball bat


----------



## TonyHunt

Got that and an Alsation size dogbowl to leave outside the van over night :lol:


----------



## thehutchies

Now we are getting somewhere!

Anyone with even the slightest scientific bent (more tea, vicar?) would never say that gas attacks don't happen. It is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. However the tabloid version of a gas attack, that of some petty thief spraying a can of easy start through a roof vent, is implausible. There is a wealth of evidence to suggest that this is improbable.
However, a little thought will reveal ways in which gas could be used to assist an otherwise conventional robbery.

The problem that I have is that, with our current knowledge, anyone who says 'Gas attacks are real', without any supporting evidence, MUST also believe in alien abduction, the Loch Ness monster, all the world's deities and sightings of Elvis working in Burger King.
Maybe they are carried out by Jesus and the Yeti in a spaceship borrowed from Roswell, and they celebrate later with burger, fries and a rendition of 'Hound Dog.'

I take care to protect myself and my family to a reasonable degree (thank you to anyone concerned for my children's welfare).
I think that we are at as much risk from a 'tabloid' gas attack as we are from spontantaneous human combustion. 
We don't sleep in fire blankets.

If you say 'Gas attacks are real' then you believe in the only crime in the world for which there is neither evidence nor even a plausible method.


----------



## sallytrafic

The unanswered question is what gas?

Any Vets out there? If any of what follows is incorrect please shoot me down I am HNC chemistry (failed). 

One of my dogs underwent a small procedure under anesthetic today so I was able to ask the vet a load of questions about the gasses used. The one thing that did come up was that the gasses are much safer to humans than they once were. Why was that I asked well now there is very little chance of any being breathed in by the operating room staff because of the precautions taken. 

After looking up some of the chemicals named (some of which are not flammable) I came to the conclusion that unless administered under clinical conditions and if introduced in enough of a concentration to put one under then they could lead to death in any one that already had a poor cardiovascular system. 

Just look around at yourselves the average motor home owner tends to be late 50's, overweight, not at the peak of his physical fitness just the type to fall off his perch at the sniff of some badly administered anesthetic especially if it was chosen for its efficacy in horses or goats. 

Anyway the gas most likely is one of the fluranes, some varieties are used on humans. They are a tad expensive and controlled.

One thing that I have come across is that many of these could act as a truth drug so if you were sure someone had been gassed they would tell the truth of course if they hadn't been..........

Regards Frank


----------



## TonyHunt

We can take it that your in the it can never happen to us camp then


----------



## geraldandannie

Gas attacks _might_ happen, as you say. Theft from motorhomes _does_ happen, and if you stop some noxious herbert from getting in your van, you won't have anything nicked. It really is that simple. Isn't it?

Gerald


----------



## geraldandannie

sallytrafic said:


> the average motor home owner tends to be late 50's, overweight, not at the peak of his physical fitness


OI! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: How very dare you!

I'm in my early 50's. Grrrr!. :wink:

Gerald


----------



## sallytrafic

sallytrafic said:


> The unanswered question is what gas?
> 
> Any Vets out there? If any of what follows is incorrect please shoot me down I am HNC chemistry (failed).
> 
> One of my dogs underwent a small procedure under anesthetic today so I was able to ask the vet a load of questions about the gasses used. The one thing that did come up was that the gasses are much safer to humans than they once were. Why was that I asked well now there is very little chance of any being breathed in by the operating room staff because of the precautions taken.
> 
> After looking up some of the chemicals named (some of which are not flammable) I came to the conclusion that unless administered under clinical conditions and if introduced in enough of a concentration to put one under then they could lead to death in any one that already had a poor cardiovascular system.
> 
> Just look around at yourselves the average motor home owner tends to be late 50's, overweight, not at the peak of his physical fitness just the type to fall off his perch at the sniff of some badly administered anesthetic especially if it was chosen for its efficacy in horses or goats.
> 
> Anyway the gas most likely is one of the fluranes, some varieties are used on humans. They are a tad expensive and controlled.
> 
> One thing that I have come across is that many of these could act as a truth drug so if you were sure someone had been gassed they would tell the truth of course if they hadn't been..........
> 
> Regards Frank


Just a small PS no one makes a stick on the wall detector for any of the gasses vets use apart from ether. I have just spent two hours searching on the net. Detection however is quite easy in a blood sample.

Regards Frank


----------



## TonyHunt

At last the pennies dropping, a sensible answer


----------



## Telbell

In the context of "gassing" of people already in the motorhome, what is the point of having chains and padlocks positioned between cab doors if there already deadlocks fitted to those doors.

Would anyone really sleep through the noise caused by someone trying to remove deadlocks from the doors so that they can then render the occupants unconscious from within in order to remove property?? Unless of course they squirt gas through a vent to render them unconscious before removing the deadlocks before stealing property?? Oh No- I think we've discounted the idea of Gas Attacks from the outside, haven't we?


----------



## sallytrafic

TonyHunt said:


> We can take it that your in the it can never happen to us camp then


No Tony you are quite wrong I just want some evidence of what to protect myself from. I have already attempted to come up with some candidates before Vets were mentioned.

I have also searched the scientific press for anything in the way of evidence - you wouldn't believe the things people research for their PhDs etc but have not yet found anything. By the way the Daily Mail is not a paper of scientific record neither is the National Enquirer. Put Criminal and Anesthetic into Google as I have done and wade through the results I've done about 500 so far and haven't come up with anything yet and that includes United States Patent 3965827 and a torturer who used Halothene.

Regards Frank


----------



## TonyHunt

The idea of the chain is as a visual deterrent to the scumbags to let them know its going to take them a lot more trouble than just picking a lock or prizing the door open and causing a lot of damage to your motorhome. Hopefully they will leave yours and go for easier pickings such as the folk on the other side of the services who it can never happen to who also sleep with their windows open and have no visual deterrents to put the casual thief off. If I was a thief even a large dog bowl by the step would make me think again and go elsewhere, think about it.
P.S. As well as the dog bowl and baseball bat I have a hidden safe that all our valuables and passports, credit/ cards go in so that a would be thief, if he did get past all that, would have to spend a lot more time searching for something worth taking.


----------



## 96783

Having just returned from a month in UK I have spent the last hour (or maybe more) ploughing through the whole of this thread. As many have said the subject has been aired ad nauseam a number of times before. In all of the threads I have read, today and in the past, I have yet to read one from someone who has been robbed who has had a gas alarm fitted, of whatever variety. I have also not read of one where a robbery has been foiled because a gas alarm went off. I have read a number where robberies have been foiled because Eddie van Bitz's electronic gadgetry has worked as it should. That may just be coincidental, who knows, but many people have been robbed - some of whom have taken few if any precautions. Others like Tony Hunt have protected themselves and their property with sensible precautions and, so far, have survived unscathed. Long may their precautions and sensible parking continue to protect them.

The lessons, so far as this member is concerned, is that adequate and sensible precautions must be taken which include a high quality alarm system, secured doors, deadlocks, and a safe in which all one's valuables are secured every night without fail whether on or off site.

My observations or thoughts, not all which I have posted, will not convince those who believe in "gassing". Neither will they have any effect on those who are sceptics but I do have to say as one who spent a number of years as the "Press Officer" that I rarely believe everything that I read in the media. In other words just because you read it in the DT, DM, DE, Sun or heard it on TV, radio or third hand reporting doesn't necessarily make it true. The phrase "never let the facts get in the way of a good story" have too often come to mind.


----------



## Telbell

Tony- your point about "visible deterrent": We use "Silver Screens" at night, probably like many others. Thus any bright coloured chains locked between cab seats would not be seen anyway.There's an argument that the would-be thief is even more at risk as they wouldn't know whether or not chains are fitted. They would, however, see external deadlocks on the doors.


----------



## TonyHunt

telbell. In a situation like that on a motorway services etc i wouldnt use the silver screen for that reason. We just pull the curtains round so that the front seats are visible. Also the deadlocks we have fitted are the internal ones that I think are made by fiamma that are locked by turning them through 90degrees and then unlocked with a key. Theres no way they could be picked without breaking a window first. I think all that hassle would put off the toe rags anyways. The object of any security systems is to make it as difficult and time consuming as possible for them. The one thing a thief likes is a quick entrance and a quick getaway, thats why they like motorway services.


----------



## Telbell

Thanks Tony-likewise- we don't use Mway service Stations for overnighting


----------



## 100960

Yoe poms are the biggest bunch of wussies I ever come acros. You wanna try bein in the bush 150ks from the nearest bricksitter. No cell, no TV, no lights no dunny an the place crawlin with stuff that thinks yor lunch. No tucker less you get the pointy end of yor nife to a roo which ain't easy when theyre shiftin.
Yoo wanna swag in a carpark why dont you just paint a bullseye on the front of the van. Yoo wanna kip down with open winnies yoo do that an sumthings gonna crawl in for shure. What did yoo think yore roof vents for? If yor gonna creem yor jocks then pay the cash an get a real big chain for the doors. Screw wire mesh across the qarterlites. get a motion detecter for the cab an get a telescopin securitty screen for the cab acces.. Hang a blanket yor side of the screen an see how much gas gets thru. Get some old size 14 boots an leav them on the frontseat. leave a baseball bat between the screen an the balnket. Dont act like yer gonna run and hide. Give them a mesage - DONT SCREW WITH ME SCUM.
I got a big old croc head I leave on the dash. Dun up a bit with tape like the van cos I was a bit drunk at the time an my aim werent so good. Lucky it dont smell so bad now. yoo could try the same with a bunnies head or whatevr passes for wild animels in pommyland.


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## Pusser

Welcome indeed to forum. You are not by chance doing a BSc as well are you? I don't think I could hack the Ozzie outback for all the tea in China. Give me gas anyday.


----------



## Bagshanty

Pusser said:


> Welcome indeed to forum. You are not by chance doing a BSc as well are you? I don't think I could hack the Ozzie outback for all the tea in China. Give me gas anyday.


... the gas is all in their beer, as I recall


----------



## olley

Hi Aussiejoe :lol: :lol: :lol: very funny, pity the standard of english hasn't improved since we transported you lot over there.

Olley


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep (My own Quote)*



teemyob said:


> Gassed,
> 
> Please see the title
> 
> Despite being a mere 41 and so far travelled roughly 1,000.000 miles many of which have been in Mainland Europe. Fortunately I and none of my travelling companions have never been "Gassed" be it by Plane train or Automobile, the ferries often give off many a plume of smoke but as I am usually out on deck feeding my nicotine addiction, the usually very fresh air normally compensates for both of the aforementioned.
> 
> Yes I have been robbed of a few quid through my own stupidity or plain daft kindness.
> 
> I would go on to say that I have never been "Gassed" but as a child who never cleaned his teath and once visited the dentist pre gum injections, let me tell you I remember it to this day.
> 
> I was about 5, maybe 6 years old. Had the most horrible tooth ache, my local dentist told my Mum that they needed to come out. So off I went, few weeks later into the chair.
> 
> This is my recolection:
> 
> I was with my Mum. One of my Brothers & Sisters. It was in a surgery over a pub of which I remember the Name Place though not the date. The 2 female nurses and male docter drew my teeth, my gums bled for fun and my new ones grew in their place.
> 
> I have been through life scince, remember counting to around 4 when I was put to sleep, told to count to 10 for Various broken bones, severed tendons and Serious Eye operations.
> 
> Despite being so under the influence of Alcohol, I have found my way back to the hotel/Caravan/Tent alone a mile away from nowhere despite never ever being in the town ever before in my life.
> 
> However, there have been times where I have been with people yards away from my place of residinece when I have been so tired that I have been unable to remember how I got to bed.
> 
> My Late Mum and Living Step Farther, My Kids, Friends, people you talk to in general life all tell me the tales of being put to sleep. Regardless of mental state all agee with the same answer.
> 
> So let me tell you
> 
> Motorhome/Caravan/Tent Gassing is an "Urban Myth"
> 
> You have never been "gassed" 5 or 95 years old without your knowledge or reasonable comprehension.
> 
> You may have been robbed or attacked but gassed a deffinate NO NO NO NO NO.
> 
> Trev


Hello all,

Not had time to read all the replies to this post, though one thing springs to mind the effects of CS Gas!

I have recently read may adverts promoting the use or sale of CS gas canisters in Euopean magazines.

Could this or a similar product be freely available?

Trev


----------



## tonyt

Bagshanty said:


> Pusser said:
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome indeed to forum. You are not by chance doing a BSc as well are you? I don't think I could hack the Ozzie outback for all the tea in China. Give me gas anyday.
> 
> 
> 
> ... the gas is all in their beer, as I recall
Click to expand...

..... and rectums


----------



## Pusser

*Re: Lets Put this one to Sleep (My own Quote)*



teemyob said:


> Could this or a similar product be freely available?
> 
> Trev


I think you would know if CS gas was used. YOur eyes would stream, you would be coughing and spluttering and it would certainly wake you up, not put you to sleep. But of course, at least you would know you were being robbed which is a comfort.


----------



## sallytrafic

If I can be a bit pedantic CS isn't a gas. It is deployed either as a smoke or small particles borne on an aerosol. I agree with pusser though you would definitely know about it. You could still tell six weeks later if you used CS inside a van as it sticks to soft furnishings etc. Perhaps Teemyob was confusing it with something else. 

Frank 

(former instructor in NBC warfare sorry defence)


----------



## Pusser

sallytrafic said:


> If I can be a bit pedantic CS isn't a gas. It is deployed either as a smoke or small particles borne on an aerosol. I agree with pusser though you would definitely know about it. You could still tell six weeks later if you used CS inside a van as it sticks to soft furnishings etc. Perhaps Teemyob was confusing it with something else.
> 
> Frank
> 
> (former instructor in NBC warfare sorry defence)


Not pendantic at all. I didn't know it was not a gas so updated appropriate grey matter. I learn something new every day on here.

(Former Buntin' Tosser sorry Tosser)


----------



## ralph-dot

Why is it always called CS gas on the TV then?

Ralph


----------



## sallytrafic

ralph-dot said:


> Why is it always called CS gas on the TV then?
> 
> Ralph


'cause journalists have arts/history/law degrees. Never believe anything scientific on the TV especially if thats the only place you get your science from. CS = orthochlorobenzylidenemalononitrile I think the letters CS are from the inventors surnames

Regards frank

>>LINK<<


----------



## Pusser

Have we any more lovely inventions that can harm people that we don't know about. What was the one the Russians used to knock out the school.


----------



## teemyob

*Laughing Gas*

On certian forum topics should we not refrain from humour?


----------



## 99266

Can ANYONE point me in the direction of a Police Report or official statistics in ANY country saying that gassings are happening...

After reading this so far - 12 pages wowow !! - all I have read is that the Belgium Police are very sceptical and dismisive...

And the British FCO have "heard" that there have been "reports of gassings."..

All Very conclusive....

Have looked on American web sites for information on this as well and all are equally dismisive...

The only people who seem to have "proof" are the sellers of gas alarms --- but they cant tell you what gas they are checking for... :roll:


----------



## badger

I understood there was a "once and for all" sticky relating to the alledged gassings.............someone will link it......I do wish I was technically minded. :roll:

*Moderator Note ( 20/11/06) :

Since this thread was started new evidence that focuses on the whether an anesthetic gas could being used in robberies has been posted in the News section of Motorhomefacts. You can read this News Item >>HERE <<*


----------



## sallytrafic

Not a sticky

It is however on our front or home page under news.

Regards Frank


----------



## bognormike

for your info:-

"This article was drawn to our attention from the Out&About forums by Don Madge:

It's a response to a letter from Mr. Brian Kirby of O&A forums addressed to the Royal College of Anaethetists.

"Since this debate rattles on from time to time, with much deliberation over how and what, I thought I'd try to get an expert view on the feasibility of using narcotic gases to knock out the occupants of motorhomes/caravans.

Since they do this all the time, so to speak, I thought I'd ask the Royal College of Anaesthetists. Somewhat to my surprise, they provided the following reply. Interesting isn't it? Sleep tight folks!

Dear Mr Kirby,

Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are not the first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical Advisor, has given the following previous comments:

"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day.

There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are almost odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the effect you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief unless he was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent which is not available outside the KGB!

Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking about is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you talk about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or cases of serious brain damage to have been reported."

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,

Ms Shirani Nadarajah
General Administrator

Professional Standards Directorate
The Royal College of Anaesthetists""


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## 99266

and so to bed -- you sleepy head !!!!

time to put this one to bed with that VERY definitive answer !!!!


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## Don_Madge

Fibre,

Could you please change your avator as you are confusing me  , I read your post and I thought I don't remember posting that. :? :? I then looked at the name  , oh dear another senior moment  

Don


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## artona

Hi Don

not a senior moment on your own mate, I was confused as well.

stew


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## spykal

Hi Don

I thought it was you posting too....and it went through my thoughts....poor old Don has gone a bit GaGa this morning :roll: 

I have heard about identity theft...now I have witnessed it :lol: :lol: 
That will teach me to read more carefully.....

mike


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## Don_Madge

spykal said:


> Hi Don
> 
> I thought it was you posting too....and it went through my thoughts....poor old Don has gone a bit GaGa this morning :roll:
> 
> I have heard about identity theft...now I have witnessed it :lol: :lol:
> That will teach me to read more carefully.....
> 
> mike


Mike,

Me GAGA never :? :? I'm a survivor

I was born before penicillin, frozen foods, contact lenses, videos, televisions, frisbees, freebies and the pill. We lived before radar, credit cards, split atoms, laser beams and ballpoint pens. Before dishwashers, tumble dryers, electric blankets, air conditioning, drip-dry clothes, and before man walked on the moon.

We got married first and then lived together - how quaint can you be? We thought a Big Mac was an over sized raincoat. We existed before house-husbands, computer dating, dual careers, when a meaningful relationship meant getting along with your cousins and sheltered accommodation was where we waited for a bus.

We were here before day centres, group homes and disposable nappies. We had not heard of FM radio, tape decks, electric typewriters, word processors, artificial hearts, or men wearing ear-rings. For us, time-sharing meant togetherness, a chip was a piece of wood or a fried potato, hardware meant nuts and bolts and software was not a word.

'Made in Japan' meant junk, a stud was something that fastened a collar to a shirt and going all the way meant staying on a bus until it reached the terminus. Pizzas, McDonald's and instant coffee were unheard of. Cigarette smoking was fashionable, grass was mown, coke was kept in the coal house, a joint was a piece of meat you had on Sundays and pot was something you cooked it in. Rock music was grandmother's lullaby and a gay person was the life and soul of the party.

There were four grades of toilet paper - The Radio Times, Daily Despatch, Daily Herald and the local paper. A money-box was called a penny gas meter. People had a wash-tub outside the home and ate their meals inside the home. Transportable lightweight baths could be used in any room of the home.

The porn scene was a pawn shop, a handkerchief was a coat sleeve. Footwear was constructed of leather, iron and wood. A disc jockey was the national hunt rider with a back injury. The recycling unit was known as the rag and bone man. An alarm was known as the knocker-up man and NHS was known as the doctor's bill (6d a week).

Debt and illegitimacy were secret. McDonald only had a farm, Central heating was an oven plate or a firebrick wrapped in a blanket. A duvet was your Dad's overcoat. A kitchen unit was known as a slop stone. The Top Ten used to be the Ten Commandments.

We, who were born in the 30's, must be a hardy bunch when you think of the way in which the world has changed and the adjustments we have had to make. No wonder we are so confused and there is a generation gap.

But we have survived!

Don


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## Telbell

.....without being GASSED :wink:


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## geraldandannie

Good one, Don. And now you're on a tiny portable computer, connected to hundreds of other like-minded people through your telephone, watching text-based messages, looking at photos that only exist in cyberspace. Who'd a' thought it, eh?

Gerald


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## sallytrafic

Yes I found the avatar confusing too perhaps you would like this modified one Don. 


Regards Frank


Thanks to Artona for getting me going in photoshop


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## geraldandannie

That was a bit like a 'spot the difference' competition, Frank. 

Hair colour. What do I win?

Gerald


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## sallytrafic

gerannpasa said:


> That was a bit like a 'spot the difference' competition, Frank.
> 
> Hair colour. What do I win?
> 
> Gerald


Yes well I'm only learning and its not an instant process when you gaze at loads of menus and wonder what its called I had to adjust three colours for the hair so now I've changed the clothes and the screen as well.

Regards Frank


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## geraldandannie

Good one, Frank!

Since I started using Photoshop (very very simply), I'm constantly surprised at the low quality of images produced by other software. Looks like I need to buy a few copies for work 8O 

Gerald


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## Don_Madge

sallytrafic said:


> Yes I found the avatar confusing too perhaps you would like this modified one Don.
> 
> Regards Frank
> 
> Thanks to Artona for getting me going in photoshop


Frank,

Thanks for the new avator, all installed I hope 

Somebody somewhere put me on to this site HERE it's very simple to use or I would not be there.

Regards

Don


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## krull

I have cut and pasted the following quote from the MMM forum. What do you think? 

Since this debate rattles on from time to time, with much deliberation over how and what, I thought I'd try to get an expert view on the feasibility of using narcotic gases to knock out the occupante of motorhomes/caravans. 
Since they do this all the time, so to speak, I thought I'd ask the Royal College of Anaesthetists. Somewhat to my surprise, they provided the following reply. Interesting isn't it? Sleep tight folks! .

Dear Mr Kirby,

Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are not the first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical Advisor, has given the following previous comments:

"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day.

There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are almost odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the effect you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief unless he was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent which is not available outside the KGB!

Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking about is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you talk about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or cases of serious brain damage to have been reported."

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,

Ms Shirani Nadarajah 
General Administrator

Professional Standards Directorate 
The Royal College of Anaesthetists


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## DABurleigh

I guess MHFers think what they said here! 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-179287.html#179287

Dave


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## Pusser

They could be wrong - they do work for the NHS 8O


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## 99266

Don Madge said:


> Fibre,
> 
> Could you please change your avator as you are confusing me  , I read your post and I thought I don't remember posting that. :? :? I then looked at the name  , oh dear another senior moment
> 
> Don


sorry for the confusion -- but I use this on othe "Touring" web sites -- and didnt think that any one else did... I can see you are a bit "green" though....

I will look for another one ---

Maurice


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## CurlyBoy

*gASSING*

If you really are concerned about this,check out a certain GERMAN supermarket that has stores in UK! They sell a gas detector at about £12,this is 12volt,and works with LPG and ETHER,Ihave one and feel confident that we are adequetly protected!!


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