# New M1 driving license



## Vennwood

I'm hearing more and more reports that the Government are about to change the rules and introduce a new category - M1 that applies to motorhomes. This will allow anyone with a full car driving license to drive a motorhome of ANY weight as long as the vehicle is a motorhome.

I have also been told that many of the RV dealers have been key in working to get this law passed and now seem confident that it is imminent.

Has anyone else heard of this?


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## erneboy

I have not heard anything Vennwood but it sounds like an upward concession, for want of a better description. Our wonderful rulers would rather take entitlements off our licenses (if possible without telling us) than add nice new ones, especially without finding a way to earn huge sums from it. 

So, if true, I will eat my hat, in public. Luckily I do not have a hat, Alan.


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## cabby

googled and got this

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/american-rv/14553-driving-licences-malvern-show-2009-a.html

cabby


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## olley

Hi this is being discussed elsewhere, and this seems to be the truth of the matter.

_RVs and Motorhomes are classed as M1 special vehicles and do not have weight restrictions imposed on them.
This weight restriction is regarding the construction and use aspect of the vehicle and does not relate to the current driving licence regulations_

That's the DVLA view anyway, but what do they know. :lol:

Olley


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## DABurleigh

Now as long as they also sort out the 60% overhang rule, things will be clearer and better 

Dave


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## erneboy

Cabby, your link does not work for me. I get a site giving info about domain names and searches. If you know which site you found could you please post again as it is interesting, thanks, Alan.


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## DABurleigh

It doesn't work because nuke doesn't like links to "competitor" sites, so it is crippled by taking something out.

Don't ask how you know which is one and which isn't, because I'm not telepathic either.

Dave


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## olley

Hi I think you will find you can't link to that site, as its a competing forum.

Olley


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## erneboy

Thanks, Da and Olley. I can see how that is fair if the link is advertising but not really when it is only information. Ah well, Alan.


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## olley

Hi ern, it works both ways, on that particular site you can't put a link to here.

To my knowledge this M1 subject is being discussed in greater or lesser degrees on 5 other sites, try googling it, your bound to come up with something.

Olley


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## DABurleigh

I regret the relative lack of informative debate on RV issued we have on MHF, presumably because many RVers ended up on other forums :-(

Dave


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## Vennwood

olley said:


> Hi this is being discussed elsewhere, and this seems to be the truth of the matter.
> 
> _RVs and Motorhomes are classed as M1 special vehicles and do not have weight restrictions imposed on them.
> This weight restriction is regarding the construction and use aspect of the vehicle and does not relate to the current driving licence regulations_
> 
> That's the DVLA view anyway, but what do they know. :lol:
> 
> Olley


I agree with you Olley.

The reason I brought this up was because I hear that there is a group of dealers that have paid into a fund and have engaged barristors to discuss with the DVLA to push through a change in legislation and " a result is imminent"

Like you though seeing is believing and right now I'm of the opinion that RV dealers are talking themselves into it being law already - after all with the recession etc. they maybe think they need something to widen their market share.


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## tude

*license*

hi guys 
ive just done my medical for my class one im fifty now.anyway my license has just returned and with it are the what you can drive and what you cant drive . it says that any motorhome that has a gross weight of more than 7.5 tons comes under class 2 license lgv. in other words if your m/h weighs 8 tons you need a lgv2 to drive it thanks tude


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## Zebedee

Content deleted.

Please see following posts for explanation.

Dave


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## DABurleigh

Zeb,

THAT's not the issue here, rather that you have lifted the information from another site without their permission or acknowledgement!

Nuke can't have his cake and eat it.

Dave


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## Zebedee

OK Dave.

I'll delete it again if it concerns you.  

Makes no odds to me, and since the other place is an open forum I would not have thought permission was required. It's in the public domain after all.

Dave :? :?


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## DABurleigh

I'm looking after YOUR interest, not mine, Dave  The rules of that site include:



> Information Collection - XXXXXXXXXX Fun is the sole owner of the information collected from our website. We do not, or will not sell, share, or rent this information to others in ways different from what is disclosed in our privacy statement below.....
> 
> Sharing - XXXXXXXXXXX Fun does not share any information with advertisers, merchants, or any other third party.


Oh, I don't frequent that site; never registered.

For nuke's part, MHF says "The materials at Motorhome Facts are copyrighted and any unauthorized use of these materials may violate copyrights and/or trademarks. "

Dave


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## Zebedee

DABurleigh said:


> I'm looking after YOUR interest, not mine, Dave


Appreciated Dave - thanks.  



DABurleigh said:


> Oh, I don't frequent that site; never registered.
> Dave


Me neither. 8O

Even if I were not a Mod, I have to say MHF is by far the best and most pleasant forum I've ever found . . . with emphasis on the latter criterion.

Members go out of their way to help each other - as you just did for me!!  

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS

:lol:


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## olley

Vennwood said:


> The reason I brought this up was because I hear that there is a group of dealers that have paid into a fund and have engaged barristors to discuss with the DVLA to push through a change in legislation and " a result is imminent"
> 
> Like you though seeing is believing and right now I'm of the opinion that RV dealers are talking themselves into it being law already - after all with the recession etc. they maybe think they need something to widen their market share.


Hi Venn hadn't heard that version, could well be true, sales a bit down lets get the law changed, :lol: be nice if it did end up in court, we would know for certain one way or the other then.

Olley


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## Vennwood

olley said:


> Hi Venn hadn't heard that version, could well be true, sales a bit down lets get the law changed, :lol: be nice if it did end up in court, we would know for certain one way or the other then.
> 
> Olley


The guy I'm in contact with feels pretty sure that something is going on and that a paper will be forthcoming very soon. It is being worked through the RVDA and their members have all contributed a "considerable subscription" to work through this.

Doesn't affect me in any way other than curiosity but would be nice for others that struggle to make the weight limit or dream of a super duper RV. (or even relief for those that are sailing close to the wind   )


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## DABurleigh

I think I'll crawl back into my shell and wait for the latest RVDA UK news to mention the current year:
http://www.rvda.co.uk/news.php

Dave


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## olley

Hi Dave that website is just for public consumption, they wanted to make out that they were doing it all for us. But I think they lost interest in that bull**** last year.

Olley


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## Otto-de-froste

Hope I'm not treading on any toes here; but whatever the legislation states, I would have concerns that drivers who have little experience other than use of a family car may be in a position to drive these vehicles without ever having any guidance or practice

Many years ago I used to hire the odd 7.5 ton van to move pianos, and I thought I was up there with the HGV drivers
In reality I was an accident looking for a place to be

It wasn't until I took my PSV around 20 years ago that I realised how little I knew, and how lucky I'd been not to get pranged

Only 2 weeks ago I followed two 6 metre coachbuilts down rural roads toward Sheffield at 20 mph, where the National Speed Limit applied
It seemed the drivers were nervous judging by the lane discipline and over-reactive breaking
Even if they intended to do 20 mph for sight seeing purposes I would have suggested that holding other traffic up is not responsible roadcraft

Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but surely there should be some kind of competency test before allowing anyone to drive vehicles the size of passenger buses?


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## olley

Hi Otto entirely agree, but if you were a dealer, you might have a different point of view.

Olley


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## Otto-de-froste

Hi Olly

Thanks

If I were a dealer I might consider whether my market share could
increase at the expense of lighter weight tag axles and the like if I offered a tuition package

Regards

Otto


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## olley

Hi Otto a lot of people buy on impulse, that wouldn't work if you had to wait 3 months while you took your test and hopefully passed before you could drive it. Also at around £1000 and a week off work, a lot of people would be put off, so from a dealer and customer point of view its not going to be a viable option. 

If the law was changed to allow anybody to drive, responsible dealers might offer 1 days free tuition. Travel World let me test drive one of their RV's without even looking at my licence, and I didn't have a "C" at that time, its all about money. 

Olley


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## eddied

Ciao tutti, since UK driving licence regs. now mirror EU directives, would not Brussels have to be consulted?
saluti,
eddied


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## olley

Hi eddied, don't know, but we have "Grandfather rights" in the UK, I don't think many other countries have them, so not all regs. are "Mirrored" 

Even if they did change them, it might only be temporary, as I believe new EU directives regarding licences are coming in, around 2012 so it might be all change again. 

Olley


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## gromett

I agree with you Otto, I was driving around in my 6Mtr Hymer quite happily. Took my C1 test to drive my new Eura 4500Kg jobby and the stuff I didn't know was scary looking back.

A better route would be to have a 1000KG limit for the B1 license and add another one (B( for bigger/faster cars up to 3500Kg.

Allowing a 17 years to jump out of a tiny car straight after his test into a Merc transit with 3500Kg is asking for trouble.

Karl


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## bigfoot

The reason I brought this up was because I hear that there is a group of dealers that have paid into a fund and have engaged barristors to discuss with the DVLA to push through a change in legislation and " a result is imminent" 

I feel that the dealers money would have been better spent on a barrister to sort out the Fiat Fisaco!!! :evil:


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## themanfromporlock

I'm with Otto. Driving a car and an RV are chalk and cheese imo. Unfortunately, after being inspired to Google a bit by this post, the driving licencing system seems to be in a right mess, created by decades of layers of reactive legislation.
The 30 mph speed limit hasn't changed for 75 years, but an inexperienced driver in a 7.5 ton lorry (or RV) can happily follow an advanced motorist in a Ferrari in the outside lane of a motorway, both of them restricted to the same speed.
Still when you get stuff like this as 'advice', what can you expect?

"Maximum authorised mass (MAM)
In this article reference is made to the maximum authorised mass (MAM) of vehicles and trailers. This should be taken to mean the permissible maximum weight, also known as the gross vehicle weight."

or this

" Passing a test for category C+E upgrades category B entitlement to B+E and also confers entitlement to subcategory C1 and C1+E and, if category D or subcategory D1 is held, these are upgraded to category D+E or subcategory D1+E. A test passed for category D+E upgrades category B and subcategory D1 to category B+E and subcategory D1+E respectively. But it does not upgrade category C or subcategory C1 entitlements because the trailer size required for a category D+E test is smaller than that required for a category C+E or subcategory C1+E test."


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## PhilK

This is an interesting area of driving license law. Two years ago the EU changed any long standing 3.5 tonne rules to 4 tonnes as a nod to improved braking and safety of vans/motorhomes. The only country in the EU to have not changed? us. 

At the start of this discussion the opening statement was very clear, FULL driving license. Due to my medical history I have a 3.5 tonne limit (which was not increased in UK) and probably will always have it. Such a limit should also by law be applied to people in many situations which are either ignored or not well known. For example, one heart attack, diabetes, cataracts, a history of fainting or low blood pressure below a certain level. I am only scratching the surface. 

The above are a few examples of medical conditions which should be declared to the DVLA and will normally result only in a limit to 3.5 tonnes. 

In a case that a driver takes a required medication, the rules used to be that after 10 years symptom clear (verified by doctor) a full license would be issued. In 2000, this was changed to 10 years medication free, a backwards step . 

The risks involved in giving carte blanch weight allowances to motorhome owners, seems dubious to me. But dont forget that all drivers at 65 in the UK get their license limited to 3.5 tonnes anyway, do the DVLA think we are all over 65?, this is gonna rumble on for longer than a 90 year old in an 8 tonne American motorhome having a heart attack.


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## locovan

A motorhome when as a base unit is classed as N1 as it is a Comercial unit at that point --when the conversion is carried out it should then be reclassed as M1 as it is then a Leisure vehicle.
This was my argument when I was fighting the Emmission charges in London.
EU had said at the beginning that all M1 vehicles were exempt.
Is this the same thing that is being discussed here or is it a different M1 classification.

Ahhh I appear to be right the M1 has nothing to do with it we have always been classed as M1--

The recently issued IVA Scheme does indeed state that the motorhome now comes under the title of M1 (Special Purpose Vehicle) as a passenger vehicle rather than a goods vehicle - that has nothing to do with regulations concerning driving a vehicle over 3½ tonnes.

The European Directive 2006/126/EC on driving licences is an attempt to harmonise driving licences throughout the European Community


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## DeeGee7

I think you'll find that it is at 70 years of age you have to reapply for your license and if driving anything over 3.5 tonnes you need a medical form signed by a GP acknowledging that you have no medical condition which would prevent you from holding such a license.


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## thieawin

eddied is correct

all EU categories are harmonised, in theory

We will evebtually increaser 3.5 tonnes to 4. If they tried prosecuting now they would lose so its a done deal

The grandfather rights are different, that allows an exemption which existed before harmonisation to continue, not a new one to be introduced

There wil be no UK only change for RV

I am going for my HGV 2 anyway


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## Rosbotham

PhilK said:


> In 2000, this was changed to 10 years medication free, a backwards step.


I'm not sure they're even that generous. If you have a pre-1997 license and lose C1 due to medical restriction, they won't let you have C1 back unless you pass the test. Mrs R was on insulin a while ago and lost C1, but when she came off they wouldn't give it her back full stop, unless she took the C1 test. She recently went back on again, and the restriction letter repeats this (unfortunately don't have it to hand to give the actual quote).



theiawin said:


> We will evebtually increaser 3.5 tonnes to 4. If they tried prosecuting now they would lose so its a done deal.


Hmm...that's an interesting one. I think you may ultimately be correct, but it'd have to be pushed to a very high court (possibly European). A magistrates court would simply apply the law of the land (ie English) as it stands. If the UK Government hasn't transposed EU legislation into national legislation, that's a matter on which the UK Government could be prosecuted by the EU (although it has to be said the UK is one of the best for meeting the 2yr deadline for transposition)...don't _think_ an English court has the flexibility to ignore English law in favour of EU Directives.

In any case, I'm interested as to where the information of change from 3.5 to 4 tonnes has come from? Looking at EU Directive 2006/126/EC, it seems to match the 3.5 tonne limit currently applied by the DVLA (see clause 4). The only reference I can find (at a cursory glance) to 4 tonnes is that the C1 test must be taken in a vehicle of at least 4 tonne (clause 5.2 of Annex II)...which bizarrely means (I guess) that if you have a 3.9 tonne van, you're not allowed to drive it on a B license, but neither can you take your C1 test in it. Hmmm...

Was there something subsequent to this Directive? ...if so given this Directive was passed in December 2006 and Member States have 2 yrs to transpose, it's quite reasonable that national law doesn't reflect something that came after it.


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