# Wheel Nut Torque



## Tiggs (May 9, 2005)

Dear All,
I have an 03 Eura Mobil 810 Integra tyre size 215/75R16C. Would anyone know what the wheel nut torqe is for the front wheels.
Regards
Tiggs


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Any tyre dealer or Fiat dealer will be able to tell you exactlly.

remember that if you have had a wheel off it is best to retorque to the correct setting then again after 30 miles or 24hours.

Richard...


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi

Tight preferably :lol: :lol: :lol: 

could not resist that, sorry I can't help.


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## Tiggs (May 9, 2005)

I had the two front tyres changed today by a national tyre company who were unable to find the correct torque information. What they have done is to tighten them for a Fiat Ducato which is the base vehicle. I was asking for information to check if this was appropriate. Thanks for the helpful reply regarding re-tightening.
Regards
Tiggs


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*wheel nut torque*

I agree with RichardNGill, but you should check the tightness of you wheel nuts regularly,just with your wheel brace will do.
An exercise was carried out by a group of Brewery engineers in the 1980's of which i was part of, a selected number of vehicles had their wheelnuts checked with a torque wrench every day for a period of time, the findings were not good for no apparent reason some of the wheelnut came loose,the same wheel fixings are used today on vans and trucks.

Since seeing that report I always look at truck/trailer wheels for wobbling,before overtaking vehicle !!? I should know we lost 2 trailer wheels and hubs years ago when the axle snapped !!


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

You will not find a wheel nut torque for a Eura Mobil as it has no wheel nuts. It is a Motorhome body on top of a Fiat chassis.

Its the Fiat that has the wheel nuts so the tyre company have done the right thing.

I would still make sure to get them checked like I said above, The tyre company should have advised you the same.

Richard...

PS Tony big vehicles still loose wheels or have them come so loose they are trashed more often than people would think. New vehicles are particularly bad and should have the wheels nut checked for the first few weeks


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Wheel Nuts*

Tony 50 I also was involved in Fleet wheel nut problems some time ago.
As I recall it was Allied Breweries and I.C.I. This followed two fatalities caused by lorry wheels coming adrift.
The ICI black museum of wheel failures was quite startling.

I was involved because I represented a company specialising in the manufacture of Vehicle assembly Nutrunners and Multispindles our equipment being installed in the MVI plants for initial assembly.

At the time Fleet operators would not invest in the equipment required but relied on break back torque wrenches.

Having ascertained the manufacturers reccomendations DO NOT LUBRICATE either the Nut or Bolt. Underhead and Thread Friction is the main component for keeping the bolt in situ and the wheel on.

Steve


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## viator (May 1, 2007)

The method I use for torque wrench tightening comes from a chart included with the wrench and is calculated on the diameter of the wheel retaining bolts, the result is adjusted on the wrench itself. When properly adjusted and the tightening force is applied it will give couple of clicks. I have used this method on different makes of vehicles without a problem.
viator


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Use a Torque wrench......on wheel nuts.....really?

I would hazard a guess that the times when a wheel has come off a vehicle is because the nuts weren't tightened at all. Not because they weren't torqued up to just the rught amount.

Just do em up nice & tight.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Use a Torque wrench......on wheel nuts.....really?

I would hazard a guess that the times when a wheel has come off a vehicle is because the nuts weren't tightened at all. Not because they weren't torqued up to just the rught amount.

Just do em up nice & tight.


> It is defiantly best practice to use a torque wrench set to the correct setting. As with a wheel bar what is too tight and what is too slack?
> 
> If the nus are too slack the wheel might come off.
> 
> ...


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## viator (May 1, 2007)

AberdeenAngus said:


> Use a Torque wrench......on wheel nuts.....really?
> 
> I would hazard a guess that the times when a wheel has come off a vehicle is because the nuts weren't tightened at all. Not because they weren't torqued up to just the rught amount.
> 
> Just do em up nice & tight.


The torque wrench I have (and many others including tyre fitting shops) is specifically for this very job, to tighten sufficiently and not overtighten and damage the alloy, which compared to steel is a softer compound.
viator


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Wheel Nuts*

The important thing is sequence tightening.
Go around the compass tightening opposites ie: 0 > 180, 90> 270 etc 
1. Tighten to snug, 2. Tighten to 50% 3. Final Torque.

In our research wheels that came off on many occasions were where bolts had been overtightened and sheared. Typical sequence is Bolt shears, next bolt overstressed and shears and so on.
I have seen wheels where the complete centre has come away following bolt failure the holes just join up like perforations in paper. The older drivers & Mechanics used to tighten till they heard the bolt squeal then tap it with a hammer if it rung it was OK. Bit like railway wheeltappers.
The Squeal probably put the bolt into yield. Bolts should then be changed at the next wheel off. Most fleet users now change bolts and use creep indicators.
No wheels should now be final tightened with Impact Wrenches.

In danger of getting boring. Factory wheel fitting Multi spindles ran down all of the nuts/bolts together, stage tightened to torque and angle and possibly into yield when required.

Steve


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I now leave the plastic wheel covers off my van after TWICE finding that the wheel nuts on the rear offside were loose after a longish journey . . [Ducato based vehicle], I know they were all tight before the journey as I'm a safety nut [no pun intended] . . I now re-check them every couple of hundred miles or so or whenever we stop for a coffee/food break, it only takes a minute or so and removes any doubt from my mind.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

If you use the wheel wrench supplied as part of the tool kit then nice and tight _by hand_ is sufficient. Do not stand on the wrench to tighten them, although you may have to to get them off again.

For most applications a torque wrench is unnecessary. The larger the nut usually the greater the torque required but then that's why bigger spanners are longer in length.

JohnW


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

"Tight enough"... is as tight as you can get them using hands and wheel brace (i.e. no need to get your boot to it).

Anyone out there ever worked in a garage.
Did you ever use a torque wrench for wheel nute ?


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## viator (May 1, 2007)

Hi Tiggs,
Are your wheels alloys or steels?. If steel there is no need for a torque setting and I also work on the squeal principal when fitting steel wheels. The fact you mentioned torque setting lead me to think you have alloys. If you have alloys you must work with a torque setting.
viator


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

viator said:


> Hi Tiggs,
> Are your wheels alloys or steels?. If steel there is no need for a torque setting and I also work on the squeal principal when fitting steel wheels. The fact you mentioned torque setting lead me to think you have alloys. If you have alloys you must work with a torque setting.
> viator


V. Good Point


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## Tiggs (May 9, 2005)

Thank you for your very helpful comments. My apologies for not coming back and thanking you earlier, but I have recently retired and have never been so busy!!
Regards
Tiggs


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*wheel nut torque*

Hi there , i'm afraid just tightening wheelnuts very tight will not do ,it's dangerous to say the least ,if you do tighten the nuts as tight as you can you can easily start to shear the threads in the nut or partially shear the stud without knowing it,adding to my previous comments about ths subject if you remove the wheel(s) make sure all surfaces are clean on hub and mating surfaces whether this is single or twin wheels (even between where twin wheels mate each other ,also do not put paint on any mating surfaces on wheels ,hubs,and be careful not to paint the wheel nut clamping faces or around the stud holes in the wheels where the wheelnuts clamp the said wheel ).Keep an eye on any tyre fitter who works on your vehicle,they are notorious for tightening wheels with a Impact Gun (Air Wrench) over tightening nuts they should set air tool to slightly less torque than is required,and finally tighten with torque wrench if you don't see torque wrench move, ask him how he knows how tight the wheel nuts are!

It is also prudent when you know the wheels have been torque and retorqued after 30 miles ( if possible ) to fit indicator arrows (available at good tyre suppliers ) to the nuts so you can make viual checks quite easily to see if nuts have moved


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*wheel nut torque*

Hi there , i'm afraid just tightening wheelnuts very tight will not do ,it's dangerous to say the least ,if you do tighten the nuts as tight as you can you can easily start to shear the threads in the nut or partially shear the stud without knowing it,adding to my previous comments about ths subject if you remove the wheel(s) make sure all surfaces are clean on hub and mating surfaces whether this is single or twin wheels (even between where twin wheels mate each other ,also do not put paint on any mating surfaces on wheels ,hubs,and be careful not to paint the wheel nut clamping faces or around the stud holes in the wheels where the wheelnuts clamp the said wheel ).Keep an eye on any tyre fitter who works on your vehicle,they are notorious for tightening wheels with a Impact Gun (Air Wrench) over tightening nuts they should set air tool to slightly less torque than is required,and finally tighten with torque wrench if you don't see torque wrench move, ask him how he knows how tight the wheel nuts are!

It is also prudent when you know the wheels have been torque and retorqued after 30 miles ( if possible ) to fit indicator arrows (available at good tyre suppliers ) to the nuts so you can make viual checks quite easily to see if nuts have moved


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## Tiggs (May 9, 2005)

Had the wheels nuts rechecked everything was OK. Passed the MOT this morning with no problems. Thanks for all your helpful advice
Regards
Tiggs


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*WheelNuts*

I am trying to get my head arroung the comment that only Alloy wheel Nuts/Bolts need to be final torqued with a Torque Wrench.

The only conclusion I can come to is that the Alloy could be damaged if overtorqued where the steel would not added to the fact that you have different rates of expansion.
It is nonsense of course. 
All wheel bolts should be final torqued.
I agree completely that the mating surfaces should be clean and the threads and bolt underhead clean and free from lubricant. The friction factors designed into the bolt are very important components.
Oiling the wheel bolt reduces friction, increases clamp force for the same torque reading takes the bolt beyond its design limits.

Torque is a compromise. We are not really interested in the Torque but what we must achieve is sufficient "clamp force" between the mating surfaces to ensure they cannot move at all. We must do this without stressing the bolts, Wheels,or hubs beyond their designed levels. At a service level the only thing we can readily measure is torque. which is why torque levels are specified.

eg Fiat Ducato/ Peugeot Boxer 2.4 130 ftlb Steel Wheels.

Don't forget if you take the bolts into yield you will need a new set. Trouble is without kit costing many thousands of pounds you will never know.

I can supply the tech notes if requ

Steve


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

130ft/lb????

Sounds a bit high to me. You'd surely never get them undone again!!

JohnW


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Wizzo said:


> 130ft/lb????
> 
> Sounds a bit high to me. You'd surely never get them undone again!!
> 
> JohnW


130 Foot pounds = 176 Newton meters. The specified torque for my Sprinter-based Hymer is 190 Newton Meters so the figure looks OK to me.

Whilst on the subject, I fully endorse the principle of using a torque wrench and tightening the wheel-nuts to spec. A decent wrench costs £35 - £40 and that seems a low-cost insurance given the value of a motorhome (and life). Having had new tyres fitted to my car a few months back, I was spurred into action by discovering that a strange clicking noise on cornering was caused by loose nuts. This came to light after about 150 miles of driving - one nut had come off - the others were finger-tight. This was bad enough, but the thought of it happening on the motorhome frightened me so I invested in a torque wrench, a decent high-impact socket and a long breaker-bar (to get the nuts undone in the first place.) I commend this course of action to others!


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Totally agree with everything that Jean-Luc says. 

My van has the same settings as his. My question is without a torque wrench how the hell can you judge 190 Newton-Metres. 

The probability is you will use some sort of extension on your wheel brace and could very well end up over tightening, which is not a good thing. 

Whilst we're on this subject, what's the general consensus of using a smear of copper grease on the threads? 


Andrew


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Copper Slip*

The use of Copper slip is an absolute NO NO.
This could increase the clamp force by a factor of about .5.

I know years ago we all did it but not now we are older and I trust wiser.

A story from my own past. When we were working on pilot build of the new Bently Brake Calipher bolts had to be tightened to Torque then yield. An EX Rolls Royce Aero Engine employee was assembling these units and he was used to working with lubricated bolts. So he decided the correct thing to do was immerse all calipher bolts in oil. Our Electronically controlled Transducerised cost a bomb tooling assembled the bolts to Torque. When these cars went out on test Calipher Bolts kept snapping. Same Torque plus oils increases clamp force puts bolt beyond its modulus of elasticity and it will snap. Fortunately discovered pre-production. If Interested see 
http://www-1.atlascopco.com/website...roxy/Fixtured+Applications?opendocument&Tools
25 years man and boy well man anyway ICI before that.

Steve


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

*Re: Copper Slip*



pneumatician said:


> The use of Copper slip is an absolute NO NO.
> This could increase the clamp force by a factor of about .5.
> 
> I know years ago we all did it but not now we are older and I trust wiser.


Agree we are all older, but we only become wiser when people such as yourself pass on these nuggets of information.

Thanks

Andrew


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Wheel Nuts*

1 NM = 0.738 lbFt so 190 Nm = 140 lb ft.

Torque = Force * Radius. so Torque / radius = 140/3 = 46

So asuming you are happier with imperial what you could do is get a wrench with a 3'.0 long Lever and apply a force of 46 lb to the end.
You could try and measure this with a spring balance. 

Or a torque wrench can be had for about £40

To undo you get a telescopic wheel wrench and If you cannot undo with muscle power stand on it (with care)before you jack the van up. Remember English/Welsh Archers could pull about 160 lb. Breakaway torque will be more than the applied because of Friction.

Steve


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I bought a torque wrench having needed to remove the drivers seat to change leisure battery and eventually finding the correct figures (thank you Swift!). Fiat agents were UNABLE to tell me the figure and various reputable motorhome servicing agents told me "oh we never bother just tighten 'em up a bit".

We bought an excellent wrench for under £30 from Screwfix which seems to do the job very well, with 1/2" drive to fit exisitng socket set. Can get deep sockets if needed for "awkward" nuts with a long bolt protruding through it.

Well worth the investment (£30 c/w £35,000 for vehicle and £?????? for life/injuries to self or others). There was a problem a few years ago with wheels on ambulances suddenly coming off - one person was killed in a resulting crash. Eventually discovered to be use of air tools to tighten wheelnuts into dangerous tension. Fleet management changed and ALL wheels now torqued, AND indicators fitted to all bolts.

If it saves a failure it is surely worth it, but do get advice as to HOW to use it.


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