# Maximum Gross Vehicle Weight at Weighbridge (MTPLM)



## veron (Apr 18, 2010)

The log book states 3500kg.

The figures on the plate under the engine bonnet say:

3400 kg
5400 kg
1750 kg - 1
1900 kg - 2

I presume 1 is front axle, and 2 is rear axle, and 5400 kg is for towing which is not relevant to me.

I'd like to take my Autocruise Starfire 2004 to a weighbridge fully laden to check I am under 3500kg. 

How does the upgrade to 3500kg affect the individual axle weights? What would be the maximum kg for each axle?


----------



## Hawcara (Jun 1, 2009)

Not sure if I am correct in this, but figure 1 is the gross weight to be carried, 2 is the gross train weight ie weight of van and a trailer, figure 3 is front axle and figure 4 is rear axle max weights.
However, why I and 2 do not make figure 1, I don't know.
I would be interested to hear if this is correct?


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

> How does the upgrade to 3500kg affect the individual axle weights? What would be the maximum kg for each axle?


If it's a "paper" exercise to increase the payload that you intend then it won't have any effect on the individual axle capacities at all.

The sum of the two axle capacities is 3650kg now (the sum of the two is always greater than the overall max) and you won't be making any mechanical changes therefore the axle capacities remain the same.


----------



## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> The log book states 3500kg.
> 
> The figures on the plate under the engine bonnet say:
> 
> ...


Your maximum permitted weight from the figures you have quoted is 3400 kg, so unless you are going to have the mpm upgraded, 3500 kg would be overloaded (although not by much and well within the percentage * normally * allowed by the Authorities! The axle weights would remain the same, unless you carried out certain modifications specified for the higher weights - I do not know what the requirements are, probably something like uprated tyres, air assisted suspension or higher rated springs. A firm such as SVTech would be able to advise you on this aspect.



> Not sure if I am correct in this, but figure 1 is the gross weight to be carried, 2 is the gross train weight ie weight of van and a trailer, figure 3 is front axle and figure 4 is rear axle max weights.
> However, why I and 2 do not make figure 1, I don't know.
> I would be interested to hear if this is correct? Smile


Axle weights very rarely add up to the maximum permitted weight, usually the sum comes out greater than the mpm - this is to allow for weight distribution issues when loading/unloading without moving articles about to compensate - for an explanation of this and other weight related issues see the article I wrote some years ago relating to this subject.

The only difference is that you will not be able to pop into a HGVTS to use their weighbridge, most of them have been taken out of service as a cost cutting exercise.

The article is downloadable from here - http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modul...to_Motorhome_Weights_and_Terms_Used#dldetails

Hope this helps.

Keith (Sprokit)


----------



## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

I googled for public weighbridges in my local area and had a choice of quite a few. A quick phone call to check ok to just turn up and I set up an appointment..Kinda..  

When I got there I asked the operator to weigh the entire van with us in it and also the front and rear axle weights to make sure we were within out weight limits. It was about 280 kgs light. And that was with the scoot on the back. The little Vespa in the Avtar thingie. Rear axle weight was well within too but we don't carry water in the onboard tank. I was quite surprised. We left the same day for Newcastle ferry to ijmuden... 

You should find a public weighbridge in your area who will weigh your van for a small fee. We were charged just £8.00. I left the lad with the tenner.

Alex B ....


----------



## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

The TOTAL of maximum axle weights is nearly always more than the vehicle GVW, which gives an allowance for front or rear weight bias.

Ours is 2720 GVW, but front axle max is 1200kg and rear axle max is 1720 kg, the total of which is 200kg more than the GVW.

You can overload an axle but still be within the GVW for your vehicle. 

Peter


----------



## veron (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for all your replies. I now understand that the individual maximum weights for each axle remain at 1750kg front and 1900kg rear. 

The DVLA's V5C (log book) states: Revenue Weight is 3500 kg Gross. 

Does this mean that the maximum gross vehicle weight was upgraded when originally built as a motorhome from 3400kg to 3500kg, giving me an extra 100kg payload?


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

> Does this mean that the maximum gross vehicle weight was upgraded when originally built as a motorhome from 3400kg to 3500kg, giving me an extra 100kg payload?


No, unless you have a supplementary weight plate somewhere. When uprating the old plate is not removed but an additional plate is fitted. have a good search around, you may have another plate somewhere. The only M/H we've ever had that had the correct weight on the V5 was the one where I personally registered it from new. Our last one said 3500kg on the V5 but the correct figure on the makers plate was 4000kg.

It's much more likely that whoever registered the van when new simply didn't look and assumed the "usual" figure of 3500kg or didn't enter the weight at all so the DVLA simply entered their default weight for a motorhome.


----------



## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi

I have three different weight plates on the bonnet close of my motorhome. All three have 1850 on axle 1 and 2000 on axle 2.

The Fiat plate is 3650, the Alko plate is 3700 and the Rapido plate is 3500 for max gross weight.

I assume the Rapido plate takes preference and that the legal max gross is 3500.

Am I correct.

If I get it up rated to 3700 I assume Svtech will provide a further plate. Does this fourth plate replace the Rapido plate or do all four get fitted?

Thanks

Colin


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

kabundi said:


> Hi
> 
> I have three different weight plates on the bonnet close of my motorhome. All three have 1850 on axle 1 and 2000 on axle 2.
> 
> ...


Rapido's with an alko chassis normally have three plates. These are identified as Etage 1, Etage 2 and Etage 3 on the plates. 
Etage 1 is the Fiat original for the cab.
Etage 2 is the Alko one after the chassis is fitted to the cab.
Etage 3 is the rapido one and the one that applies as it is the final stage one.
If SV upgrade then you will get a fourth plate which will be the one that applies.

I am a little confused because if Fiat supplied the cab only to Rapido then the Fiat plate normally has the axle weights blank on the Etage 1 plate. Rapido and/or alko put the alko chassis on and then put axle weights on the Etage 2 & 3 plates.


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

veron said:


> I'd like to take my Autocruise Starfire 2004 to a weighbridge fully laden to check I am under 3500kg.


Veronica, a good place local to you to get it weighed is Sims Metals at 
Candys Lane, Corfe Mullen BH21 3EF {01202 885019}.

They will weigh the whole vehicle and then you drive the front wheels of the ramp and they will weigh again. You will therefor get the total weight and the rear axle weight which should enable you to work out the front axle weight fairly accurately. They charge £12.50 if you want a certificate, good will if you don't and smile nicely.
Ray


----------



## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

rayc said:


> veron said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to take my Autocruise Starfire 2004 to a weighbridge fully laden to check I am under 3500kg.
> ...


The company I used (£10.00 incl' paperwork) did similar but also gave the weight on the front axle by carefully reversing me back until the rear wheels were off the weighbridge. So I got total and accurate front and rear axle loadings. Made sure everything totalled up right.
We were surprised to find we were 280Kgs under max weight!
Still don't carry water around though.... ;-)


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

alexblack13 said:


> The company I used (£10.00 incl' paperwork) did similar but also gave the weight on the front axle by carefully reversing me back until the rear wheels were off the weighbridge. So I got total and accurate front and rear axle loadings. Made sure everything totalled up right.
> We were surprised to find we were 280Kgs under max weight!
> Still don't carry water around though.... ;-)


If the weigh bridge has been constructed correctly with the approach and departure ramps within tolerance, which it must have been to get certification then doing the whole weight and then the rear axle will allow the front axle to be accurately determined. Similarly on a large vehicle the sum of the individual axles will be acceptable for the total weight.

"End And End Measurements(Split Weighing) Overview

End And End Measurement (Split Weighing) is a process for weighing a vehicle/trailer combination that is longer that the length of the weighbridge deck. This is done by first weighing the front components/axles then moving the vehicle forward to weight the remaining components/axles. Providing the approach and departure ramps are level and in the same plane as the weighbridge deck to ±0.25° (and for the entire length of the vehicle that is overhanging the deck in either direction) then the acquired weight readings can be summed to provide an accurate weight reading."


----------



## veron (Apr 18, 2010)

Thank you for the helpful responses. The motorhome was originally sold by Marquis dealership in Poole. I cannot find any other plates on it. 

Interestingly, when I bought the Autocruise Starfire 2004 in 2010, the private seller gave me a clipping of an MMM magazine Buyer's Guide listing, showing its Maximum Weight as 3300 kg and payload as n/a! (More recent listings show the payload as 422 kg).

My last query is: if stopped/checked by the police or whoever in the UK or abroad, will they use the 3400/1750/1900 kg on the plate under my vehicle bonnet as the legal maximum weights, or do they get their figures from somewhere else .....


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

veron said:


> My last query is: if stopped/checked by the police or whoever in the UK or abroad, will they use the 3400/1750/1900 kg on the plate under my vehicle bonnet as the legal maximum weights, or do they get their figures from somewhere else .....


In the UK it will be the plate. Abroad it could be the V5C and/or plate for the MGW and the plate for the axle weights. I have seen the French police for example ask for the registration document for the 'Revenue Weight'. It can be a can of worms if the V5c is incorrect for some reason. My Chausson was originally registered with the ex works weight instead of the MGW. I had to get the V5c corrected by DVLA.

This Marquis advert for a 2004 Starbfire gives the MGW as 3300kg and the payload as 589kg
http://www.marquisleisure.co.uk/motorhomes/stock-item/autocruise-starfire-20079#.UxeXMT9_v2Y


----------



## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> My last query is: if stopped/checked by the police or whoever in the UK or abroad, will they use the 3400/1750/1900 kg on the plate under my vehicle bonnet as the legal maximum weights, or do they get their figures from somewhere else .....


In the absence of any other plates or evidence of uprating, the Manufacturers/Chassis/VIN plate (whatever you wish to call it) weights are always the figures used when weighing vehicles for enforcement purposes. Many times I had arguements with drivers who tried to tell me 'the salesman told me it was okay to carry......'

So, until you get it uprated, if indeed you intent to, and have the uprated plate to display the new weights, stick to the weights shown on your VIN plate.

Keith (Sprokit)


----------



## kabundi (Feb 14, 2011)

Racy

Thanks for your response

I have checked the plates again.

The Fiat plate does not have 'Etape 1' on it and it does have the axle weights.

The Alko has 'Etape 2 and the Rapido plate has 'Etape 3' on it. I have also just noticed that there is no train weight shown on the Rapido plate so presumably this means that I cannot fit a tow bar. Probably not an issue as I don't intend to tow at present.

Colin


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

kabundi said:


> Racy
> 
> Thanks for your response
> 
> ...


Colin, Many thanks, my French translation of Stage to Etage was obviously wrong and Etape is correct. {I think Etage actually means Floor as in a building.}
Rapido do some strange things regarding towing. Mine is rated for towing with a 2000kg capacity but I loose one of the designated travelling seats even though the seat belt is still there. It cannot be used though as the gas locker intrudes into where the passengers legs would be. Strange but so is replacing the dual fog lamps with a single one as it is built on the 4250kg chassis. Ray


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

gaspode said:


> It's much more likely that whoever registered the van when new simply didn't look and assumed the "usual" figure of 3500kg or didn't enter the weight at all so the DVLA simply entered their default weight for a motorhome.


Not necessarily.

When we bought our Cipro in 2009 we were asked whether we wanted it registered at 3500kg or 3850kg as it was possible to have it registered at either weight.

We chose 3500kg as although our daughter has a pre-1997 licence her partner doesn't.

So based on our experience it is possible to choose whether to register a higher rated van at the lower weight if you wish.

You obviously could not do it the other way round with using SVtech or whatever.


----------



## veron (Apr 18, 2010)

Feedback on my recent visit to the Reliance Scrap Metal weighbridge on the Nuffield Estate in Poole, next to the recycling centre. I had a full tank of diesel, but fresh water was approx one third full as I don't usually carry much water. 

Phoned the day before (01202 673539), but they said just turn up and drive onto the weighbridge. Then visit the girls in the office. They weighed the motorhome (without me inside). I then drove forward, and they weighed the rear axle only (not sure if this was done while I was still in the van). Cost £10 with a printout.

3400/1750/1900 kg = VIN plate under bonnet

3285/1205/2080 kg = Weighbridge result, adding 65 kg for me

-115/-545/+180 kg = Differences between above

I've got kitchen and bathroom at the rear, and a box attached carrying an electric bike and dog trailer. This accounts for most of the excess weight on the rear axle. I could dispose of items within the van rear and move some stuff forward amounting to perhaps 80 kg. It's difficult to add weight to the front axle, as it is even in front of the driver's seat!

I am happy with being 115 kg underweight overall.

I'm aware that 1 litre of water = 1 kg. Does 1 litre of DIESEL weigh 1 kg?


----------



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

It looks like the culprit is the box with the electric bike. Those things are damned heavy! It's acting like a lever, and adding weight to the rear, and of couse lifting the front axle up! 

There may be no way round it apart from dumping the bike  You could remove it and weight again to see the result. That weight excess could leave the vehicle unstable, as well as illegal.


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Veron

You need to reduce that rear axel weight considerably but remember removing 50kg will actually take more off the rear axel due to the leverage effect.
Not only will being overweight reduce traction, braking and steering on the front end you are also illegal.

The penalties if your vehicle exceeds its maximum permitted axle weight are:

Vehicle overweight by	Penalty
5% to 10%	£100
10% to 15%	£200
15% to 30%	£300
More than 30%	Court summons

James


----------



## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

Very good advice above.... :wink: 


Diesel is under 1kg /litre.. I think I remember around 0.85? 

How much water do you have on board? 1/3 full = ? 

Drain this when travelling and if you need some water for a cuppa etc carry some in the fridge. We never carry water when travelling, except for a small amount we carry inside (fridge normally) for tea etc. 

Never been stuck for water yet.

Try and get some weight off that rear axle.

Good luck and safe travels.

AB13CHB


----------



## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Not wanting to rain on your parade but.....I don't think you should be too happy because your rear axle is 180kg overweight,that is a quite a margin and if caught and weighed by VOSA you are risking a fine,points on your licence and possibly invalidating the insurance.The front axle also seems a bit on the light side,is the steering ok?

You would have to redistribute weight in the van to get the rear axle load to below 1900kg and 180kg is a substantial amount to lose.I think your main problem is the weight of the rear box-have you thought about uprating the rear axle permissible weight?This can be done by fitting air assisted suspension and beefier tyres with a higher load rating.


----------



## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

I've just had my habitation check done which is carried out with the van empty of everything so took the opportunity to weigh it.
It matched the manufacturers unladen weight within 5% and considering I have solar panels + an awning + towbar wasn't bad.
More importantly I have now weighed everything as it went back in and I mean everything even the duct tape and have put back in 170kg of kit leaving us with 290kg of water and clothes and wine plus a spreadsheet detailing everything for future reference..
Quite an enjoyable exercise.


----------



## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

wakk44 said:


> have you thought about uprating the rear axle permissible weight?This can be done by fitting air assisted suspension and beefier tyres with a higher load rating.


This is misleading advice.

Uprating requires formal paperwork (SVTech are usually recommended by those requiring an uprate) and may, or may not, require hardware changes.

Hardware changes alone will not suffice.

Ian


----------



## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Don't forget if you are weighed at the roadside the 5% is up to the officer on the day, what is set in stone is that regardless of whether you get prosecuted or not you will not be allowed to move the van until you shed the excess weight, imagine having to leave valuable stuff at the side of the road before being allowed on your way.


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

pete4x4 said:


> leaving us with 290kg of water and clothes and wine


And passengers


----------



## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

JP said:


> pete4x4 said:
> 
> 
> > leaving us with 290kg of water and clothes and wine
> ...


Already included


----------



## veron (Apr 18, 2010)

This has been an interesting exercise, with the overall weight being less than I expected.

I've got brand new Michelin camping tyres. Tyres pressures are normally 62 psi all round, but will check if rear tyres should be higher. Will consider uprating the rear axle with SV Tech - you can type info into their website. The front axle on the Peugeot Boxer is almost under the engine, so not giving much support for the habitation area.

Having made a few payload adjustments, I shall visit another weighbridge and make sure I can sit inside when the vehicle is being weighed. Will also check that the front and rear axles are level (not sure if they were at Reliance as the site slopes upwards as you drive away, and my rear tyres were only 2 feet from the edge of the weighbridge for the second net weigh).

Many thanks for all the responses, which have been very informative.


----------



## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> .................if caught and weighed by VOSA you are risking a fine,points on your licence and possibly invalidating the insurance............


Not correct, VOSA (now more properly known as the Driver & Vehicle Services Agency or DVSA) do not fine private motorists for being overweight, but do prohibit until excess weight is removed - unless things have changed in the past 18 months - the only fines imposed for being overweight were those levied on "commercial" vehicle users (i.e. carrying goods in connection with a trade or business). AND - unless the overload was so big that road safety was compromised (in which case the defendant would have been charged with 'dangerous condition' not overloading) points are not imposed for overloading.

I can only speak as it was within VOSA and cannot say whether or not Police officers would impose a fine on a private individual for an overloading offence.

It may be that an insurance company would attempt to wriggle out of any pay-out if they discovered a vehicle was overloaded when involved in an incident - I cannot profess to have any knowledge of that subject, so will refrain from further comment.

Keith (Sprokit)


----------



## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

sprokit said:


> > .................if caught and weighed by VOSA you are risking a fine,points on your licence and possibly invalidating the insurance............
> 
> 
> Not correct, VOSA (now more properly known as the Driver & Vehicle Services Agency or DVSA) do not fine private motorists for being overweight, but do prohibit until excess weight is removed - unless things have changed in the past 18 months - the only fines imposed for being overweight were those levied on "commercial" vehicle users (i.e. carrying goods in connection with a trade or business). AND - unless the overload was so big that road safety was compromised (in which case the defendant would have been charged with 'dangerous condition' not overloading) points are not imposed for overloading.
> ...


Keith

In Lincolnshire it works this way.
Either VOSA on mobile patrols will stop a vehicle and then call for a police officer to deal with the offence and the VOSA officer provides a statement of evidence.

Or if it is a static check (Op Mermaid being the national days of action) they are already together along with council environmental health officers and the red diesel people from customs and excise and all work together.

I know people keep saying no one had ever been stopped etc. but I have personally been there (for nearly 25 years) when dozens of motorhomes, usually big RV's, the larger european motorhomes and almost certainly any foreign registered vehicles have been pulled in weighed fined and very often prohibited.

James


----------



## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> Keith
> 
> In Lincolnshire it works this way.
> Either VOSA on mobile patrols will stop a vehicle and then call for a police officer to deal with the offence and the VOSA officer provides a statement of evidence.
> ...


James

I'm well aware of how it all works within what used to be VOSA, now DVSA, I was an Enforcement Officer for 20 odd years and have taken part in more 'Operation Mermaids' than I care to remember. I still keep in touch with my former colleagues, just to listen to them wingeing about how I managed to retire at 'just the right time'.

My main concern was to correct a post which may have given people the wrong idea of the penalties imposed on NON COMMERCIAL drivers.

I was one of the lead officers during the survey carried out to ascertain how many motorhomes were travelling in an overloaded condition, as most are now aware, it's in the region of 80%.

I gave up trying to educate the minority ages ago, I felt I was banging my head against a brick wall, if they want to run overweight, then it's their problem. The facts are out their, and the solutions, but I think most have the feeling it'll never happen to them. Long may their ignorance reign!

Keith (Sprokit)


----------

