# Cracks in Fibreglass :(



## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Hi People I hope you can help. 

We are very new to the world of motor homing and recently took the plunge and bought a new Elddis Autoquest 140.

We are over the moon! Its been great so far and we have managed a few weekends away so far. 

But now on to my upset  

I have noticed that just above the drivers door on the corner where is goes just behind the door the fibreglass its cracking. I am assuming this should not be happening.  So my question to my fellow forum members is - Can you give me some advice? The van is less than 3 months old and have done less that 700 miles. 

I am concerned that if it goes away and gets repaired could this problem happen again when it gets a bit older and out of warranty. Will it all match if it is repaired? Or am I in a position where I can "back" it back to the dealer and request a new van. 

Over to you guys, any help very much appreciated. 

Johnny


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Heres a pic of the area i mean...










and should this be like this? We did ask the dealer but they didnt come back to us yet. I thought that by law they needed to be connected...


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I love your declared location! 

Do a search on MHF for stress cracks or cracking.

The loose wiring looks very poor.

Who is the dealer?

Dave


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

Get onto them and quote the Sale of Goods Act...

=-=---Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.=-=-=-=

Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

Johnny F


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

I would prefer for the present time not to say who the dealer....

I do have to say though, I called the dealer Tuesday and was promised a call back... No call... Called and chased in the afternoon.... Got a call back with a request for emailed pictures. Sent them 9am yesterday with a note to call confirming receipt, didnt get a phone call so chased in the afternoon, promised a call back and no call. 

Called this morning and told that they had no email but then told they better open the email program!! Opened it and there it is! They are now going to talk to the Manager and come back to me. I have expressed that I would like the van replaced as I do not feel it is fulfilling its purpose. 

Oh and when i spoke to them on Tuesday they asked me to bring it down on the 13th September but today they didnt have any note of that 

Thanks for the advise so far peeps! 


DAB - your not too far away from me in fairness... Im J4A M3


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Noted, says he typing this in west Farnborough 

2 weeks before they would even look at it in the flesh, or do they intend "fixing it" on 13th and have booked workshop time I wonder.

Dave


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Nope, not going to fix it then simply assess it. 

The earliest workshop time they have is middle of October. 

So I will have to do a 130 mile round trip just to show them! 

West Farnborough, thats closer says he sitting in Wokingham...


Johnny


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

This sounds like one for the dealer to fix but if anyone is interested one way to stop a 'creeping' crack in fibreglass is to drill a ver fine hole at the end of the crack then fill and spray to match and voila it will creep no more!


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

GROUNDHOG said:


> This sounds like one for the dealer to fix but if anyone is interested one way to stop a 'creeping' crack in fibreglass is to drill a ver fine hole at the end of the crack then fill and spray to match and voila it will creep no more!


Im just a bit suprised that this should happen before it is 3 months old.. 

Bit of an update, was promised another phone call back last Thursday or at worst Friday and nothing.

I have called just now and spoken to the manager there who didnt have a clue who I was. So, the person I reported this too obvoiusly hadnt spoken to him like she said she would.

He told me that the warranty for cracks etc is 1 year and that a specialised fiberglass repairer would be the one that fixed it not them.

I voiced my concern at the cracks reappearing and was told "its highly unlikely, its a bit like settlement in a house they appear at first and once fixed dont come back"

I did also say that I may wish to return the van as I was not sure if these cracks would reappear and was told it would be repaired.

He told me he had to send the pictures I took to Eldis and he would let me know from there.....

Johnny


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## 102539 (Jan 19, 2007)

8O Interested in this one I myself bought a new Compass Calypso 200 last June didn't even get it off the forecourt no internal electrics collected following day after investigation by auto electrician cable shorted on chassis I was told no sign of a short or disturbed wiring I could see. Still a mystery ? anyway mine also has cracks appearing where overcab meets body been back to dealer for supposed repair lasted about three months and now beginning to re-appear this is only one of many faults 25 in total up to now. I am not impressed at all with the build quality of this motor home. Have had Compass caravans in the past without problems maybe motor homes don't warrent the same quality control or is it a sign of the times build em as fast as possible. Everyone seems to think make as much money as possible and as for the poor customer as we part with our cash forget about us !


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## TinaGlenn (Jul 7, 2006)

Our previous motorhome was a Compass Avantgarde Lux 200, we got it in late 2003, we never had any problems with the bodywork at all, but did find that the interior was flimsy, with the bases of wall mounted cupboards bowing down, and the hinges on the wardrobe door kept coming out. If we used the shower head the cupboard under the sink tended to fill with water if you didnt get the angle just right. The pull out part of the bed slats snapped when it was sat on and had to be re-inforced. We also put some ventilation holes and covers into the sofa base as the transformer for the 12 volt power supply got so hot your could burn your hand on it and we were worried about safety ( there was no ventilation for it at all 8O ). We traded it in last June for our Autotrail. I know that the compass motorhomes are classed as entry level but even so £23k plus is a lot of money to spend on something so flimsy.  

Tina


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## max123 (May 9, 2005)

Hi, we have a compass castaway. A couple of days after picking it up we travelled to Greece. On the way to dover we lost all our internal electrics and also the battery wasnt charging when running. By the time we got to switzerland the electric bed was at a 45 degree angle. Luckily the farm we stopped at for the night sawed up some fence posts so I could prop it up perfectly level. I managed to get the electrics working before we got to greece. The suppliers were very concerned by this and fixed everything when we got back, the problem was sloppy workmanship, ie electrical connectors not done properly. Anyway last week I too noticed that the over cab has a very slight crack in it. It can only be seen from the top but obviously will have to be fixed. Havent got round to contacting the supplier but assume they will fix it with no quibles. It seems like the Explorer group might have problems with its plastics department.
Max


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Johnny,

I would be very concerned about a repair being carried out. If the fibreglass is cracking then there is stress somewhere. This stress will need to be relieved before the fibreglass is repaired otherwise the fault will most certainly re occur.

Boring story but relevant:

I have a friend who bought a second hand caravan - think it was about 18 - 24 months old - he spotted a hairline crack at the rear and then tested with a damp tester and found that corner inside had severe damp.

He had owned the caravan for just under a year when he found this out. He then made phone calls to the dealer and seemed to be fobbed off. So he contacted the manufacturer - cannot remember who, but can find out - and they said they did not know what it was about but sort with the dealer.

So further investigation got him to the previous dealer who admitted that when they took it in they where aware of the problem. He then spoke at length to that dealer who told him there was a problem in the manufacturing process which the manufacturer had now sorted - remember they would not admit liability - so armed with this information he went back to the dealer he bought from and politely threatened them with legal action. Based mainly on their knowledge of the problem.

It took about three months in total, but he got a full refund against another almost new caravan.

So why bore you with that story? I think you need to do a bit of research about the MH and the manufacturer. Fibreglass should not fracture and only does when there is a bad design. Imagine a boat having a fracture below the water line! A bit difficult to explain that one away when the new owner is looking at a sunk vessel.

Personally, if I could not find anything but I am sure you will, I would take it back and demand - using as much polite force as necessary - my money back.

Regards

Chris


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Oops,

In my rush to get outside and replace three fence panels I forgot to mention:

When communicating with the dealer, you MUST do so via letter and send it recorded.

They can and will deny any telephone conversation.

Regards

Chris


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Its interesting this should pop up again..!

As it is now 7 months since I reported it to the dealer and the cracks HAVE NOT been repaired yet. 

I do not want to put much more but I think I have given the dealer adequate time to arrange repairs and therefore think its time they gave me a full refund. 

In fairness, they have repaired the floor that sounded like a biscuit tin when you walked on it, the dodgy water filling cap and the habitation door that my wife could not get in and out of because it was so stiff and that took me five minutes to lock. But they still havent fixed the dodgy blind in the front (only tension on one side) the exhaust that sounds like its going to fall off and the electrical hookup door which is broken. 

This was a brand new unregistered 06 plate van to us on the 30.6.06 so there is no other history that I can talk of with previous owners. 

I has now done 2000 miles, 1000 of which have been done by the DEALER driving it from my house to one of there dealerships and then driving it to another dealership based in the Newark area and then back and then back to me. 

/discuss

Johnny


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Hi Guys 

To continue the event we are having with our motorhome I call upon all the members at motorhome facts for some valued advise. 

To recap:

Bought the Motorhome 30/6/2006 Brand New 0 Miles.

Mid August reported many faults including Cracking Fiberglass 400 miles

September 15th Van Inspected and told "all faults will be sorted" Advised we werent happy with the van and wanted to reject - Dealer would not accept and said we had to give them the opputunity to fix. We said you have one chance. Chase dealer repeatedly about the Fiberglass

November 2006 - receive a letter advising Lamplas will contact us in 6 to 8 weeks to arrange an inspection - HOW LONG! 

December 2006 Van collected from our house to fix faults advised in August 900 miles on clock and returned 2.5 weeks later 1800 miles on clock. and only one major and one minor fault fixed still has 2 major and a few minor faults to need repairing, one of which being the Fiberglass.

Jan 2007 Chase dealer again about the fiberglass. 

Feb 2007 Lamplass call WOO HOO! Arrange to come out. They inspect and advise that the front bit of the van has been overtightend to the back and this is causing stress hence the cracks. He says he can fix it but not today as the weather is looking like rain. I ask what he is going to do about the overtightening and he says "nothing" I will just cut the gel coat/fiberglass out and patch it up. I say surely this problem may come back again. He says - yes it may well do. He says he will do a report and has taken pictures. The report goes from Lamplas to Expolorer and then from Explorer to my dealer and then from the dealer they may well tell me. 

I have now told the dealer I DO NOT want this van and reitterate what I told them last September. I told them that as the stress is not being relieved and its just a "patch" up job that this is unnacceptable. I have also advised them that they have done more miles in my van than I have in 8 months of ownership! 

My question is can anyone give me any more advice as the dealer is setting a meeting up with the branch manager me and my wife as well as the aftersales manager. So I would like to go in forwarned of what I could expect. 

Thanks so much in advance. 

John & Tracey


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi John & Tracey

First thing to say is that you seem to have received very poor customer care from your dealer. Secondly, you've let this run on for far too long. If you really believe that there is a serious fault with the goods you've bought (and paid £30,000+ for I assume) then you should have engaged some professional legal advice long ago. We're more than happy to offer advice here but we're just amateurs, where large sums of money are concerned you really should be getting some professional advice from an expert in consumer law.

So what about the cracking in the fiberglass then?

I've looked at your pictures but can't see any cracks, that's not to say there aren't any but probably means that they're gelcoat cracks, not fractures in the structural part of the shell. Gelcoat is a coating on the outside of the structure, similar to a finishing coat of hard gloss paint. If you paint a piece of metal with a very hard, brittle coat of paint, let it dry hard then bend the metal slightly the paint will crack. This is what's happening to your gelcoat in an area of stress. It may well be that the shell has been overtightened on assembly - and that's what has caused the stress point. The specialist who called and offered to make a repair was quite right about cutting out the gelcoat and repairing it. He was also correct that the cracks might reappear, all fiberglass shells will get cracks in the gelcoat around stress points eventually. Oh, and by "cutting out" he probably means cutting back with an abrasive, not chopping the section out.

What I'm trying to say is that gelcoat cracks - unless very extensive, are unlikely to be anything more than a cosmetic problem and would not be considered an adequate justification for rejection of a vehicle in my opinion. This doesn't imply that you're wrong to insist that they're repaired, just that you seem to be getting the problem rather out of proportion.

You say that you have had three major faults and several minor faults with the van. The faults you listed earlier concerned a "tinny" noise on the floor, some loose wiring, a stiff habitation door, damaged hook-up flap, dodgy water cap, noisy exhaust and sticking blind. Whilst these need fixing and should receive prompt attention from the dealer they don't exactly sound like major faults to me, just niggling minor faults that all too often turn up in new motorhomes. So what are the major faults? If you're intending to reject the vehicle I think you'll need to show some much more serious problems are present.

I think you have two opttions.
1) Don't attend any meeting with the dealer unless you have some legal advice and are accompanied by an advisor.
2) Go to the meeting, explain your dissatisfaction, give them a fixed time to correct all the faults to your satisfaction and demand some compensation for their failure to deliver satisfactory service. I certainly think that putting 1000 miles on your new van during repairs is totally unacceptable. Compensation should be easily calculated for this on the basis of the use they have made as a proportion of the anticipated life of the van ie: perhaps 1/70 of the new replacement value if you consider the life expectancy of the van to be 70000 miles. You should go to the meeting with a fixed idea of what settlement would be acceptable to you with objective justification of the figures you demand. You should also decide on a minimum figure you would be prepared to accept. If the dealer isn't prepared to meet that minimum figure then you have to accept that you will need to claim through the courts for compensation with all the expense and time that involves.

Try to put aside your understandable frustration and disappointment, go to the meeting with an open mind and with a willingness to compromise. Settling your dispute in any other way is likely to cause you even more grief and expense.


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Great reply Gaspode!

The only additional thing I would add is, if you do not get what you want at that meeting, be cautious about agreeing or committing to anything else! Particularly if you do not have a legal representative.

Regards

Chris


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## 95754 (Jul 16, 2005)

This is a copy of the problems I have had with a new Compass Castaway FB And to date I still do not have the motorhome back now 4 months later!


Since the purchase of our motorhome in June 2005 we have had nothing but trouble. Each time the motorhome has been returned to Brownhills Newark our nearest agent.

From new we had many issues the main one being unable to discharge all the grey water from the holding tank, this was two weeks after collecting the van. I contacted Explorer direct they put me onto someone in their workshop who said they have had an issue with this! and water not going down plug holes, the motorhome was taken to Brownhills in February for these problems to be corrected plus other minor issues

At this time also we asked Brownhills to note the damp ingress into the rear off side panel which was distorting the panel, the lady made a manual note on there records and took a photograph and said she would contact explorer about it and get back to us.

In April we had a small electrical problem and called into Brownhills as we were passing with the motorhome. This was fixed by there service receptionist Mr Robin? I also asked if he had heard anything about the damp problem to which he replied, not yet. I also pointed out to him various cracks appearing around the rear of the motorhome which he took pictures of and I booked in for the annual service for July he said by then he will have an answer ref the damp also the cracks.

On picking up the motorhome in July I asked again reference the cracks and damp and was told he had mislaid the photo's so he took them again and he would be in touch.

By October we had had enough so contacted Brownhills again by telephone, they said they were waiting for a Lamplas engineer to contact us.
On October the 5th I contacted Explorer myself to ask why it had taken so long but they informed me they had had no claim submitted at all from Brownhills and I best contact them for there claim reference!

Brownhills passed me to there Richard Brown who deals with Warranty claims who said he new nothing of the claim but he did put things into motion and asked if I could retake the photo's and email them to him, which I did but it was the third time photographs had been taken since January 2006.

By November 6ths we had still not been contacted by Lamplas and I emailed Richard Brown again, he chased and said Lamplas will visit in December.

The Lamplas engineer visited 16th November and was not prepared to do any repairs to the motorhome due to the damp ingress and also the size and nature of the cracks and said it would be best if I returned the motorhome to you which we did mid November 2006.

I telephoned a couple of time to see how progress was going always to be told it being worked on and will be contacted when finished .After waiting some three months as it is now February 2007 I contacted Brownhills body shop February 13th to see what is going on, to be told it would be finished in about another week. I asked if all the work had been completed and was told yes to which I asked including the cracks, to which I got what cracks! After a deep breath went on to explain that they, Brownhills have had my Mobile home for 3 months and had not even touched the cracks despite an email from Richard Brown on 18th December saying it was required to go back to the factory for repairs.

The lady on the phone said she would call back which she did to confirm my motorhome would now have to be shipped back to the factory and would not be finished for at least another month.

As you can see from all the emails enclosed this has gone on for far to long two things stand out most number 1 being the build quality of our motorhome is of very poor quality and is not of a standard that would be expected of a £40,000 motor home point number 2 Brownhills Newark have added to the problems ten fold with there total incompetence in this matter, just take a look at the emails, if it hadn't cost £40,000 you could not have made it up.

Therefore I respectfully request under the sale of goods act either Explorer or there agent in this case Brownhills Newark either refund us in full or replace the motorhome within 7 days.


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

Have you had a response from Brownhills?

Johnny


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Johnny it's time you started kicking off big time with these people, I'ts unbelievable that a brand new motorhome costing thousands and thousands of pounds in June last year, is still not fit for purpose 10 months down the line!
If you havent already done so,..seek legal advice to bring this disgrace to an end.

Regards MnD


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## 99677 (Jun 16, 2006)

MandyandDave said:


> Johnny it's time you started kicking off big time with these people, I'ts unbelievable that a brand new motorhome costing thousands and thousands of pounds in June last year, is still not fit for purpose 10 months down the line!
> If you havent already done so,..seek legal advice to bring this disgrace to an end.
> 
> Regards MnD


Hey Guys,

I should have said sooner!

After 10 months of problems and various letters, conversations and meetings I am pleased to say we are now no longer the owners of the van from hell....

But, we are the owners of this...










Me and Tracey were both a little worried after the period we had spent trying to sort this out that we may have "fallen out of love" with the whole motorhoming experience. The day we went to pick it up though was just like getting our first motorhome all over again I am pleased to say and were over the moon.

So for once,it would seem that this consumer has had a result..!

Chuffed? You bet we are!!

Johnny


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