# Can I use heating on the move? & serious MHF discussion!



## Snelly

Sorry for maybe a pretty simple question, but can I use my gas (lpg) blown air heating whilst on the move?? I've been told its ok to use the fridge freezer on gas whilst moving.


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## 98452

Not sure re the heating but you can use the A/C on the move with the genny running :wink: :wink:


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## Snelly

RR said:


> Not sure re the heating but you can use the A/C on the move with the genny running :wink: :wink:


I can use the genny whilst on the move??? cool.


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## 98452

Yupp standard practise out in Florida :wink: you would cook otherwise :wink:

One other thing Shane although most RV are fitted with 2 roof A/Cs but it's recommended to only use one at a time unless your on 50amp hookup.


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## artona

Hi Shane

I know your genny is run off LPG. We had problems running ours but I am wondering if the petrol tank was low and so as we drove and the fuel slopped about it was not getting to the genny. For a while it worked great.

We leave our heating on as we move and it seems ok.

Of course purely for safety reasons I guess many will advise isolating the gas altogether whilst on the move

stew


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## Superk

Best not to pull into a garage for refuelling with a roaring flame going - (applies to the fridge as well). 8O


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## 101411

We keep our heating on when it is cold and we are on the move, never had a problem. I don't see what difference it makes if your moving or not to be honest.

As far as the genny is concerned the fuel intake for the genny is higher up than the fuel intake for the engine. This ensures the genny never uses all the petrol in the tank and leaves you stranded with no fuel for the engine. I suppose if the tank is a little low you would get fuel starvation problems with the genny especially if going round a lot of corners.

Dazzer


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## Snelly

Only thing I wondered about was if the flame would blow out on the heating as we drove along...


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## Snelly

RR said:


> One other thing Shane although most RV are fitted with 2 roof A/Cs but it's recommended to only use one at a time unless your on 50amp hookup.


50amps?? Is that possible on a domestic connection?? Also, are you sure a/c units take 25amps a piece?

I run both units on hook up to test them and nothing tripped on a 16amp hook up.


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## 101411

That would be 50 amps at 110 volts (USA power) as we use 230 volts the amperage would more than half so as long as both air cons were not started together at the same time you probably would get away with a 16amp hook up.

Dazzer


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## 102098

I think I read somewhere that you can use heating that's flue'd out thru the roof on the move. Switch off when in the filling station though.


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## 88927

Simple answer is YES.....
We accidentally left ours on when we came home last weekend (I wondered why it was so hot :roll: ) 70 miles and no flame out.

Keith

Ps Agree with above re filling stations though, always turn off refer before refuelling............


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## Snelly

Thats good to know Keith... there's nothing worst than travelling in this weather and your passengers being freezing! Another plus point for the rv.


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## 96097

kands said:


> Simple answer is YES.....
> We accidentally left ours on when we came home last weekend (I wondered why it was so hot :roll: ) 70 miles and no flame out.
> 
> Keith
> 
> Ps Agree with above re filling stations though, always turn off refer before refuelling............


accidentally - tee hee :wink: :wink:


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## olley

Dazzer said:


> That would be 50 amps at 110 volts (USA power) as we use 230 volts the amperage would more than half so as long as both air cons were not started together at the same time you probably would get away with a 16amp hook up.
> 
> Dazzer


The yanks use a 2 phase supply on 50 amps, that means it's roughly equal to our 230v at 50 amps, thats about 11,000watts 8O I believe only the newer RV's are wired for this, most will be 30amp single phase, roughly the same as our 230v at 16amp.

What you need 11,000 watts for I don't know, but I suppose you could say they are "Future Proof"  

Olley


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## G2EWS

You live and learn!

I thought every RV had a rear heater when on the move!

Further investigation and I see the rear heater on our Winnie was an optional extra. Basically it takes heat from the engine and runs it through a tank below the bed which is then used to heat the water tank and the blown air heating!

So you arrive on site, warm and with a full tank of hot water.

Seems a good idea to me, not sure if it can be retro fitted, at low cost of course!

Regards

Chris


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## Snelly

G2EWS said:


> You live and learn!
> 
> I thought every RV had a rear heater when on the move!
> 
> Further investigation and I see the rear heater on our Winnie was an optional extra. Basically it takes heat from the engine and runs it through a tank below the bed which is then used to heat the water tank and the blown air heating!
> 
> So you arrive on site, warm and with a full tank of hot water.
> 
> Seems a good idea to me, not sure if it can be retro fitted, at low cost of course!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris


Now you've thrown another idea in the pot Chris. Although im almost sure mine doesn't have that facility, the engine does help keep the bedroom warm.


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## 97993

> What you need 11,000 watts for I don't know,


Their getting them ready for the new breed Nuclear/Electric 50 foot models 
the milage range is unknown at the moment, but they should run for 10.000 years on 2 ounces of plutonium @ £5,000,000 per ounce the economy will be about the same :lol: 
Geo


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## 101859

I think that the regulations require you to have automatic cut off valves like these, http://www.trumauk.com/products/gas-technology/drive-safe/ , fitted if you are going to use gas when moving.

They will close off the gas supply if a pipe is broken, as likely if you are involved in an accident.


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## olley

If I get wacked hard in the passenger side, with the tank fittings being mounted on the side of the tank, my gas valve is very likely to be torn off, as is any other valve fitted, so turning it off will make no difference.

Olley


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## 101368

olley said:


> If I get wacked hard in the passenger side, with the tank fittings being mounted on the side of the tank, my gas valve is very likely to be torn off, as is any other valve fitted, so turning it off will make no difference.
> 
> Olley


Yeah but if you get hit anywhere other than that spot a cut off might just prevent a fire. Plus don't know about yours but my gas cut off valve is a lot tougher than my gas piping. I paid twenty quid or so to have an automatic low pressure cut off fitted at that price didn't seem worth not doing it. Of course there is the minor detail that AFAIK it's a legal requirement to have one fitted if you use gas on the move.

Forgetting to switch off your fridge when filling up with petrol can be interesting. The second time I did it knew what to do. Put burning petrol nozzle back in pump. Extinguish burning filler cap with damp rag. Sprinkle sand on burning forecourt. Look at horror of face of attendant that you just set his forecourt on fire remember to pay him. This was in an old home conversion someone else had done with the fridge directly above the petrol cap.


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## 99181

Hi All 
Very interesting topic i have always left fridge on whilst on the move ,even to the point of filling up at garage.I think most rvs have the fridge on the opposite side to filling points,did not do this intentionally but when not sure where youre going and getting low on fuel it seems to be the furthest thing from ones mind even forgot to switch it off on the ferry which i know is a no no.I have heard it is ok to run air con whilst on the move but i have not heard of people running their heating furnace if so is it also acceptable to run a hot water furnace whilst on the move?one point no one seems to have mentioned is you cannot run air con on the gennie and use your microwave at the same time.


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## clodhopper2006

Suppose you crash and a gas pipe ruptures. Your going to have gas all over the place and any spark and you'd be in deep trouble


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## 99181

my rv has the ability to run on gas or hook up,so if im on a long jouney am i supposed to let evrythig thaw out? i think they are made to be left on


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## 101368

lugnutt said:


> my rv has the ability to run on gas or hook up,so if im on a long jouney am i supposed to let evrythig thaw out? i think they are made to be left on


You mean it hasn't got provision to run off 12volt that sounds very unusual? It'd have to be quite a long journey for everything to thaw out. Certainly longer than one person would be safe to drive.


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## 99181

no it has no provision for 12 volt
the long jorney matbe done by more than one driver!


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## 101411

As far as I know all RVs have a 2 way fridge (gas and hook up) unlike Euro fridges that are 3 way (12v, gas or hook up). I always travel with the gas on to keep the fridge cold. I also travel with the heating on if its cold but keep the hot water off.

I've never really given it any thought before but the auto cut off valve thingy makes a lot of sense. I mean if the crash is bad enough to rupture gas pipes the last thing you want is a BBQ going underneath at the same time!!! (Mind you a totally destroyed RV will probably be an easier insurance claim than a 1/2 damaged one!!!)

Just as a matter of interest and going off topic here a bit anyone had a nasty crash in their RVs and tried to get it repaired with any kind of success??

Dazzer


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## teamsaga

*using heating on move*

surely if you run lpg appliances while driving there is a risk of the liquid lpg slopping around in the bottle/tank and passing through your regulator and reaching your burners still in liquid form. i.e. a flamethrower. 
regards phil


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## olley

Hi just a bad guy then, I leave fridge on and hot water heater, wife will also boil a kettle when traveling.

Don't need heater as theres an engine fed one ducted into the underfloor heating, 

Olley


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## 101368

olley said:


> Hi just a bad guy then, I leave fridge on and hot water heater, wife will also boil a kettle when traveling.
> 
> Don't need heater as theres an engine fed one ducted into the underfloor heating,
> 
> Olley


Hope you have your wife well insured. Surprised she can reach the kettle from a belted seat in the van.

Alright have done it often in traffic jams but otherwise seems a really bad idea.


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## Spacerunner

I can't believe people will drive with gas appliances alight! There are so many dangerous situations that could arise. By all means blow yourselves up, but I hope I'm miles away when it happens. I thought the law said that there should be no naked flames within 50 feet of a public highway. Hence the law of not being able to brew up on motorway service areas and small lay byes.


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## sallytrafic

Before we all get too judgemental its horses for courses. I've cooked in a force 6-7 whilst sailing and not had an accident yet. A lot of RVs are as 'stately as a galleon' and any naked flames in a fridge or heater are well buried. I wouldn't do it in my little van or on a fuel station forecourt mind but I've seen plenty of people smoking around garages in the US of A. My van corners quicker than an RV can go and that makes a difference.

I don't see a liquid coming over through a regulator unless the van is lying on its side in which case you have plenty of other things to worry about.

Regards Frank


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## 101411

oooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

Actually RVs are DESIGNED to be driven with gas appliances lit hence the lack of a 12 volt feed to the fridges (which in most Euro m/hs is next to useless anyway!!).

And as far as not having a naked flame with 50 feet of the highway you might want to point that out to the millions of people who smoke whilst driving!!!! 

Dazzer


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## 88927

Our front garden isn't 50 foot long, better not get the missus to cook for us ever again then :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## 88781

Snelly, why not ring the manufacturer or a RV dealer, they will be able to confirm whether the fridge and heating appliances are useable whilst driving?

Dave


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## Spacerunner

I quote from the Caravan Club's Technical Information section. No 3 in their suggested checklist before setting off on your journey. 'Turn off LPG cylinder and ensure it is strapped tight' 

I quote from the Camping and Caravaning Club's Big Sites Book. Stopping overnight at Service Station halts, 'naked flame appliances are forbidden'. 

I quote from my Autosleeper's side window sticker: Important Before Moving Off '1. Turn off all gas appliances' 

Now I can only defer to advice given by those with more experience and knowledge than myself, but, I think the general thinking is that naked flames and operating gas appliances on a moving vehicle may not be appropriate.


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## 99181

50 ft from high way...flip...no more mobile burger bars, they will have to tap into the nearest lampost


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## 88927

MandyandDave said:


> Snelly, why not ring the manufacturer or a RV dealer, they will be able to confirm whether the fridge and heating appliances are useable whilst driving?
> 
> Dave


No need to do that Dave, although a definitive answer would be enlightening (although I have just read about a dealer who told someone they should use petrol in a diesel RV :roll: :roll: )..... Maybe Shane should have a look through the manuals for the appliances???
There are lots of guys on here who have no choice than to run an RV fridge on gas whilst on the move. There is no 12 volt supply....
We have inadvertently travelled home with the heating on, so we know that it works whilst moving. RV's are designed to run with appliances running, it is why the gas layout is completely different to those on european mh's, for instance the gas feed pipes to all the appliances is in 1/2" steel pipe, not in copper stuff..... The gas pipe is also run alongside the 6" chassis rails so risk of damage is minimised, I am not for one moment saying that in an accident damage could not occur, but it really is not the same as in european vans..... :lol: :lol:

Keith


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## sallytrafic

Spacerunner said:


> I quote from the Caravan Club's Technical Information section. No 3 in their suggested checklist before setting off on your journey. 'Turn off LPG cylinder and ensure it is strapped tight'
> 
> I quote from the Camping and Caravaning Club's Big Sites Book. Stopping overnight at Service Station halts, 'naked flame appliances are forbidden'.
> 
> I quote from my Autosleeper's side window sticker: Important Before Moving Off '1. Turn off all gas appliances'
> 
> Now I can only defer to advice given by those with more experience and knowledge than myself, but, I think the general thinking is that naked flames and operating gas appliances on a moving vehicle may not be appropriate.


I think an autosleeper ain't an RV you can't take from one case and make it fit the other.

Regards Frank


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## LC1962

Just to throw a spanner in the works.....this little ditty from Canada:

http://www.calgarysun.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=97133&x=articles&s=rv

Oh, and we've done it for years too....the fridge that is... and we have suffered no ill effects either. 8)


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## Spacerunner

I'm not saying it can't be done, or, that I've never done it, but, should it be encouraged. 
Carver, I believe, advertise as ' mobile heating solutions'. Whether that means heating in a mobile home, on whilst mobile, who knows?

Should the worst happen, there would be countless fingers being pointed at the motorhome community It might even bring down even more unwanted restrictive legislation.

Any one know where I can get a replacement wooden spoon. :lol:


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## 88927

Please see this Link to a company that has been around for 90 years and making RV heating systems for at least 30 years. The basic design is a little :wink: different to Carver products......
As said previously try not to confuse european equipment with the American product, there is very little direct comparison, if any :lol: :lol:

Keith


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## 101368

Dazzer said:


> oooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
> 
> And as far as not having a naked flame with 50 feet of the highway you might want to point that out to the millions of people who smoke whilst driving!!!!
> 
> Dazzer


My late father was a cigar smoker. He was once involved in an accident that turned over the car. He then got to watch petrol run down the windscreen with a lit cigar in his mouth. Fortunately this was before the days of seat belts so he made a speedy exit.


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## artona

Hi



> Hence the law of not being able to brew up on motorway service areas and small lay byes.


What law is that then. Why do the councils give the burger vans license to trade in the laybys?

stew


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## 97075

I'm going to add my bit now... not exactly relevant to the original post concerning RV's.

Technology has moved on this year in particular. Truma have introduced SecuMotion and DuoComfort that enable LPG use on the move. Basically it is an automatic cut off valve, but the clever bit is the hose. If the hose suddenly ruptures or gets torn off the wall mounted regulator then the hose "blocks" itself.

I think this link was on a previous post on this thread but here is is again anyway...

Link to Drive Safe

Now personal opinion, similarly to a previous poster, I've used gas for cooking and heating in all sorts of conditions including Mid-Atlantic. However I am still cautious as you don't tend to have lorries doing 60 next to you at sea. My new van on order has this new system fitted, so yes I probably will use it... taking bylaws, rules and regulations into account of course.

M.


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## Snelly

aww guys what have I started here! lol

Anyway, Keith your right, why not check the literature. Apart from I have a whole drawers worth of paperwork, which im still not a quarter of the way through! he he. I was posting for a quick answer! :lol:

I think someone summed it up well by saying american systems are quite different to european ones. Call me bias, but I certainly think the american systems are better thought out and equiped, much better than any european system. Just compare fridges for instance. The rv's norcold fridge freezer is huge and works so well! I've never had such a good fridge until we changed to the rv. The heating is also very very good, easily and quickly heating up and maintaining the heat without a wimper. And before you all start bitching about whats best, both the european and american machines do the same job, just I feel the american machines have got the edge, especially when it comes to long term touring or fulltiming.


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## artona

Hi



> aww guys what have I started here


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: careful Shane or you will get a rep for starting these threads. I think last week you said well done to the police :lol:

How is Sal

stew


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## LC1962

Shane...there IS a way to appease everyone...................drive with the genny running and plug in a fan heater :lol: 

Your fridge will work too and, if you get stuck in a traffic jam you can plug in a kettle and make a cuppa ! :wink:


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## 99181

linda....so what is guna run my microwave? or can i warm up my cornish pastie on the fan heater!!!lol


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## artona

Hi Luggnut



> or can i warm up my cornish pastie on the fan heater!!!lol


If all else fails wrap in silver foil and stick it under the bonnet near the manifold cover. 30 minutes at 60mph should be about right :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great for fried eggs as well

stew


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## LC1962

lugnutt said:


> linda....so what is guna run my microwave? or can i warm up my cornish pastie on the fan heater!!!lol


If your microwave doesn't operate when the genny's running then somethings busted! :lol:


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## 99181

lol...linda pay attention...my air con is on so if micro is used it will trip out as it uses 11000 wats.then what will become of my pastie..lol,not got greggs in my sat nav, ill end up wasteing away


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## 101368

artona said:


> Hi Luggnut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or can i warm up my cornish pastie on the fan heater!!!lol
> 
> 
> 
> If all else fails wrap in silver foil and stick it under the bonnet near the manifold cover. 30 minutes at 60mph should be about right :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Great for fried eggs as well
> 
> stew
Click to expand...

Manifold is a bit hot for fried eggs it seems. They do well on the rocker cover though. Get the engine nicely warm then cook as usual. Seen it done no idea what it tastes like cos don't eat eggs.


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## Superk

My RV Atwood Heater Manual says:

*WHEN YOUR VEHICLE IS IN MOTION
WARNING
FIRE OR EXPLOSION* Turn gas OFF AT THE LP TANK when vehicle is in motion. This disables all gas appliances and pilot lights[align=center]

This would leave the fridge with no power.

So I have asked the question on a US forum. One reply was along the lines that manuals are written by lawyers.
Another more helpful one was:
The furnace combustion chamber is sealed off from the coach and anything else - it is not an "open flame". Sure turn it off for fuelling - because there are hot flue gases coming out the flue and you would not want leaked or spilled gasoline fumes to be sucked in the air intake - that could possibly explode (but note later comment on propane). Also turn it off for LP fuelng just for good form (in addition to that 12VDC switch required in some places). No proof either does any good but it keeps "them" happy. It's a "balanced flue". That means it is largely immune to wind (unlike the water heater system!!!). So you can use it safely while travelling. The type of gas piping has nothing to do with it, since any damage that might occur is before the heater and a completely separate issue on it's own. It will just go out with no gas supply or burn quite happily if enough reduced supply is available. It is not going to explode. If enough leaking gas were to get in the air intake (unlikely since you are driving), it will probably go out because Propane has a narrow fuel air mixture range for ingition.

In Europe they may have different types of furnaces and different paranoid govt. regulations from ours. Plus some smaller types of MH may have portable gas bottles (tanks)like our TT's and their Caravans. Those should be turned of at the tanks when travelling just because of the higher risks of wear, etc. due to frequent handling of hoses while changing tanks. Also some people over there use Butane instead of Propane. It's a different story. It used to be cheaper (when I lived there, granted that was almost 30 yrs ago). Most people only used Propane then for cold weather camping, because Butane tanks can "freeze up" - not give off enough gas from the liquid state at cold temperatures, because that evaporation process cools the tank and contents and the ambient air temperature has to be high enough to make it up.

And another:
Page 137 of the Beaver Santiam User Manual

"It is advisable to use the furnace to heat the inside of the motorhome during transit. Outside temperature can vary to extreme cold. The dash heater may not provide adequate heat to the interior."

Remember this is a 38' DP so the heat source for the dash heat is a long way away.


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## LC1962

Ahhhhhhhh, Aircon...Snelly was talking about heater and fridge, maybe I missed the aircon bit. :? 

Never cooked anything on an engine block, would imagine it would have a slightly oily aftertaste?? 8O :lol:


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## artona

Hi



> slightly oily aftertaste


, very tasty though Linda if you are running on Olive Oil, and apparently gives you long life :lol: :lol: :lol:

stew


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## sallytrafic

Shane is right and the others that have pointed out (oh yes including me) that RVs are different. This question was raised in the RV forum.

What ever you think about RVs they are designed to live in. Their systems are designed for a different way of life.

What I find odd is the two axle oversized/stretched european vehicles that try and pretend they are RVs, comparatively underpowered, unstable, etc. If you are going to go the whole hog then do it properly. That said I'm never going to want to own one but at least I can appreciate the difference.

Rant over hides behind nearest RV. :werecomingforyou:

Regards Frank


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## 99181

exellent post superk well done


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## artona

Hi Frank



> What I find odd is the two axle oversized/stretched european vehicles that try and pretend they are RVs, comparatively underpowered, unstable, etc. If you are going to go the whole hog then do it properly. That said I'm never going to want to own one but at least I can appreciate the difference.


I assume you are not refering to our beloved three axled oversized Euromobil when you say that

stew


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## 101368

LC1962 said:


> Ahhhhhhhh, Aircon...Snelly was talking about heater and fridge, maybe I missed the aircon bit. :?
> 
> Never cooked anything on an engine block, would imagine it would have a slightly oily aftertaste?? 8O :lol:


The guys I saw do it weren't the sort of guys who'd break off from spannering an engine to wash their hands before eating a fried egg sarnie so probably tasted just the same. They would of course religiously was their hands BEFORE going to the toilet.


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## artona

Hi



> The guys I saw do it weren't the sort of guys who'd break off from spannering an engine to wash their hands before eating a fried egg sarnie so probably tasted just the same. They would of course religiously was their hands BEFORE going to the toilet.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Real men then :lol: :lol:

stew


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## sallytrafic

artona said:


> Hi Frank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I find odd is the two axle oversized/stretched european vehicles that try and pretend they are RVs, comparatively underpowered, unstable, etc. If you are going to go the whole hog then do it properly. That said I'm never going to want to own one but at least I can appreciate the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you are not refering to our beloved three axled oversized Euromobil when you say that
> 
> stew
Click to expand...

Read my lips 'two axle' yours is just underpowered, not underpowered and unstable 

Regards Frank

PS nice rule of thumb 1000cc for each 1000kg i'm just a little under - 2500cc 2800kg but it is a TDi


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## olley

lugnutt said:


> lol...linda pay attention...my air con is on so if micro is used it will trip out as it uses 11000 wats.then what will become of my pastie..lol,not got greggs in my sat nav, ill end up wasteing away


Hi Lugnut I think you put decimal point in the wrong place 11000 watts at 110v is 100 amps, thats one hell of a microwave if it needs that much. And one hell of a genny if it can run it. 

I can run all my services/appliances plus both aircons from my 5kva genny. as I would think most RV's can

Olley


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## 99181

olly
i have never run air con and microwave off the generator at the same time. i have tried to from the hook up and it has tripped out. from memeroy my microwave is a panasonic 11000 i can not check at the moment as it is in hospital. having full service and reversing camera fitted.


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## sallytrafic

lugnutt said:


> olly
> i have never run air con and microwave off the generator at the same time. i have tried to from the hook up and it has tripped out. from memeroy my microwave is a panasonic 11000 i can not check at the moment as it is in hospital. having full service and reversing camera fitted.


wow a microwave with a reversing camera - cool



Frank


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## olley

Hi Lugnut the site's trip will quite likely go out, starting either an aircon or microwave takes a far wack, your genny will just cough a bit and carry on.

Microwave is likely to be 1000-1500 watts max about the same for aircon.
Genny is likely to be 3.5kva or 5kva the biggest normally fitted to an RV is 7.5kva 

I believe 1Kva is roughly 1000watts. Frank please advise, out of my depth here.  

Olley


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## gaspode

This is becoming a very silly thread. 8O 

We've got so much misinformation here that the whole thing has no merit whatsoever and certainly no connection with Shanes original question.

We've got microwaves that would heat a Christmas dinner for a regiment in ten minutes, aircon units that need a direct connection to the national grid and imitation, unstable European RVs

All because Shane wanted to know if he could use his heating on the move. :roll: 

So can you use heating (gas) on the move? There's no single answer is there? As I see it there are three things to take into account:

1) Is it legal in the country where you are? Also do any local bye-laws or rules of the landowner prohibit it (motorway areas, ferries, petrol stations etc.).

2) Does the equipment manufacturer say it's OK? On UK manufactured M/Hs the answer is probably no because they abide by NCC regulations which were written for caravans. On German manufactured M/Hs it's a definite yes as their laws require all installed equipment to be useable in motion. On RVs it's probably yes because with their variations in climate it's an essential. The only way to check for sure is via your makers literature.

3) Is it in tune with your personal philosophy on life? Lots of motorhomers will shudder at the thought of leaving the gas turned on whilst on the road, others won't blink an eyelid. My Grandma wouldn't have the TV turned on when it was raining in case lightning struck the aerial. :roll: 

None of the opinions is wrong, just different. I work in what is considered a dangerous occupation and seem to spend half my working life doing risk assessments to keep me safe. It's quite easy to demonstrate by objective risk assessment that of all the "hazardous" activities I get involved with, the most hazardous is driving to my place of work.

My advice is to stop worrying too much about potential gas explosions in hypothetical situations and get on with life. There are two factors in risk assessment, the potential severity of the outcome and the likelyhood of the incident occurring. The mistake everyone makes in assessing risk is to concentrate on the potential severity but ignore the likelyhood. You're much more likely to die tripping over the dog than due to a gas leak in a traffic accident so getting rid of the dog is a much more sensible precaution to increase your longevity. Just do some simple research, abide by the law and take sensible precautions - and stop expecting everyone else to agree with your own subjective perception of risk. :roll:


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## 99181

lol...ok point taken,but what is the risk assesment of the 2 ounces of plutomnium and can you use it on the move?


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## gaspode

lugnutt said:


> lol...ok point taken,but what is the risk assesment of the 2 ounces of plutomnium and can you use it on the move?


Ah - an easy one that. :lol:

With the normal nuclear industry precautions and using my standard assessment the answer is 5 and yes.


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## 88927

gaspode said:


> All because Shane wanted to know if he could use his heating on the move. :roll:
> 
> So can you use heating (gas) on the move? There's no single answer is there? As I see it there are three things to take into account:
> 
> 1) Is it legal in the country where you are? Also do any local bye-laws or rules of the landowner prohibit it (motorway areas, ferries, petrol stations etc.).
> 
> 2) Does the equipment manufacturer say it's OK? On UK manufactured M/Hs the answer is probably no because they abide by NCC regulations which were written for caravans. On German manufactured M/Hs it's a definite yes as their laws require all installed equipment to be useable in motion. On RVs it's probably yes because with their variations in climate it's an essential. The only way to check for sure is via your makers literature.
> 
> 3) Is it in tune with your personal philosophy on life? Lots of motorhomers will shudder at the thought of leaving the gas turned on whilst on the road, others won't blink an eyelid. My Grandma wouldn't have the TV turned on when it was raining in case lightning struck the aerial. :roll:
> 
> None of the opinions is wrong, just different. I work in what is considered a dangerous occupation and seem to spend half my working life doing risk assessments to keep me safe. It's quite easy to demonstrate by objective risk assessment that of all the "hazardous" activities I get involved with, the most hazardous is driving to my place of work.
> 
> My advice is to stop worrying too much about potential gas explosions in hypothetical situations and get on with life. There are two factors in risk assessment, the potential severity of the outcome and the likelyhood of the incident occurring. The mistake everyone makes in assessing risk is to concentrate on the potential severity but ignore the likelyhood. You're much more likely to die tripping over the dog than due to a gas leak in a traffic accident so getting rid of the dog is a much more sensible precaution to increase your longevity. Just do some simple research, abide by the law and take sensible precautions - and stop expecting everyone else to agree with your own subjective perception of risk. :roll:


Sorry to be pedantic Ken, but as you pointed out, Shanes original question was "CAN" the heating be run whilst travelling?..........
There is only one correct answer and I supplied it at the begining of the thread. The answer is YES :lol: :lol: 
The heating can be run whilst the vehicle is in motion, we inadvertently did it last Sunday. The RV was like a sauna so I know that the heating did not fail in transit, just could not work out why it was so hot until we got home, switched off the iron horse and heard the fans blowing  
Anyway Shane, The answer is YES mate, and I doubt if you will now be asking about the legality (real or precieved :lol: ) of doing so eh?????

Keith


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## 99181

i would also give it a 5,and stay clear of submarines


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## 101368

gaspode said:


> This is becoming a very silly thread. 8O
> 
> We've got so much misinformation here that the whole thing has no merit whatsoever and certainly no connection with Shanes original question.
> 
> We've got microwaves that would heat a Christmas dinner for a regiment in ten minutes, aircon units that need a direct connection to the national grid and imitation, unstable European RVs
> 
> All because Shane wanted to know if he could use his heating on the move. :roll:
> 
> So can you use heating (gas) on the move? There's no single answer is there? As I see it there are three things to take into account:
> 
> 1) Is it legal in the country where you are? Also do any local bye-laws or rules of the landowner prohibit it (motorway areas, ferries, petrol stations etc.).
> 
> 2) Does the equipment manufacturer say it's OK? On UK manufactured M/Hs the answer is probably no because they abide by NCC regulations which were written for caravans. On German manufactured M/Hs it's a definite yes as their laws require all installed equipment to be useable in motion. On RVs it's probably yes because with their variations in climate it's an essential. The only way to check for sure is via your makers literature.
> 
> 3) Is it in tune with your personal philosophy on life? Lots of motorhomers will shudder at the thought of leaving the gas turned on whilst on the road, others won't blink an eyelid. My Grandma wouldn't have the TV turned on when it was raining in case lightning struck the aerial. :roll:
> 
> None of the opinions is wrong, just different. I work in what is considered a dangerous occupation and seem to spend half my working life doing risk assessments to keep me safe. It's quite easy to demonstrate by objective risk assessment that of all the "hazardous" activities I get involved with, the most hazardous is driving to my place of work.
> 
> My advice is to stop worrying too much about potential gas explosions in hypothetical situations and get on with life. There are two factors in risk assessment, the potential severity of the outcome and the likelyhood of the incident occurring. The mistake everyone makes in assessing risk is to concentrate on the potential severity but ignore the likelyhood. You're much more likely to die tripping over the dog than due to a gas leak in a traffic accident so getting rid of the dog is a much more sensible precaution to increase your longevity. Just do some simple research, abide by the law and take sensible precautions - and stop expecting everyone else to agree with your own subjective perception of risk. :roll:


I rather thought between us we'd answer the original question rather well. Snelly is now looking up his paperwork to see what applies to his RV. The rest of us are just sitting around chewing the fat till he gets back to us


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## G2EWS

Nothing to add, just think it is an interesting post and as everyone else is getting in the act I thought I should say hello!

Chris


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## sallytrafic

olley said:


> ........clipped I believe 1Kva is roughly 1000watts. Frank please advise, out of my depth here.
> 
> Olley


1 kVA = 1 kW when the load is purely resistive like a one bar electric fire. When the load is partly inductive (or capacitive - less likely) say a pump the relationship varies.

For more detail read on but the arguement may become (like large european motorhomes - sorry ken  ) unstable.

Watts only equals Volts X Amps when the current is in phase with the voltage, which only occurs in a purely resistive load. The relationship between Watts and VA in loads is called the Power Factor and in a purely resistive load is 1. If the load were purely inductive for example (impossible practically) the power factor would be zero and there would be no Watts at all but the amps and volts measured seperately would still be the same so the equation would be 1 kVA = 0 x 1 kW, or 0 kW

For reasons connected with the supply of power where you pay for Watts not Volts or Amps the convention has arisen that your power factor may be no worse than 0.8 so conventionally people will use 1 KVA = 0.8 x 1 kW = 800W.

Thats one reason generator manufacturer's always quote VoltAmps not Watts the figure looks better. They can not guarantee the Wattage, that depends on you, the consumer, and what you connect to it.

Regards Frank

See did that without mentioning Sines or Cosines ...Doh!


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## JockandRita

sallytrafic said:


> What I find odd is the two axle oversized/stretched european vehicles that try and pretend they are RVs, comparatively underpowered, unstable, etc. .
> Regards Frank


That could be us too, with gas heating appliances designed to operate whilst in transit. And so they do, if it is cold enough for it. If it is good enough for the Germans /TUV, it's good enough for me.

A firdge/freezer as big as some domestic units that runs on 12 volts from the alternator, until you switch off. Then it waits about 15 minutes before firing up on gas, just in case you were *possibly* refuelling.

Unstable, no, due to the rear twin axle arrangement

Underpowered, yes, I think so.

However, other than overhead barriers, there has not been one instance where I have not been able to gain access with our "overstreched European" jobbie!!!

Jock.


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## 102172

> 1 kVA = 1 kW when the load is purely resistive like a one bar electric fire. When the load is partly inductive (or capacitive - less likely) say a pump the relationship varies.


Good luck finding a 'bar type' electric fire that has a purely resistive load. If it is in a coil it'll have loaddddssss of inductance.

If we're not careful we'll start talking about reluctance, recombination and tor next. Arrgh! And here was me thinking I'd forgotten all of that gubbins....

Of course, we could be really helpful and explain to other users the method for stopping your electricity meter from turning by altering the power factor of your house...... But that would be naughty and almost certainly involve someone cooking themselves, so perhaps not.

Cheers.

Paul 
(another electrical/electronic engineer - 2 must = critical mass!)


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## sallytrafic

JockandRita said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I find odd is the two axle oversized/stretched european vehicles that try and pretend they are RVs, comparatively underpowered, unstable, etc. .
> Regards Frank
> 
> 
> 
> That could be us too, with gas heating appliances designed to operate whilst in transit. And so they do, if it is cold enough for it. If it is good enough for the Germans /TUV, it's good enough for me.
> 
> A firdge/freezer as big as some domestic units that runs on 12 volts from the alternator, until you switch off. Then it waits about 15 minutes before firing up on gas, just in case you were *possibly* refuelling.
> 
> Unstable, no, due to the rear twin axle arrangement
> 
> Underpowered, yes, I think so.
> 
> However, other than overhead barriers, there has not been one instance where I have not been able to gain access with our "overstreched European" jobbie!!!
> 
> Jock.
Click to expand...

Thats why I specifically mentioned two axle as opposed to 3 like yours.

I was following a convoy of Italian motorhomes not that long ago (do they travel in convoys in Italy as well?) There was a strong x wind and they were bobbing about all over the place except one in the middle a 3 axle hymer (tag axle?).

They are called bobbils in Norway I thought that was from the norwegian for hut but perhaps its because they bobble about  .

Regards Frank


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## JockandRita

sallytrafic said:


> Thats why I specifically mentioned two axle as opposed to 3 like yours.
> Regards Frank


Hi Frank,

All understood, as per your original reference.

I was just putting forward some supportive points for "us European stretchies". :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


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## sallytrafic

Hi Jock (or is it Rita)

I reckon they should add another engine (perhaps elec motor) to your tag then you could zip up hills

Frank


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## JockandRita

sallytrafic said:


> Hi Jock (or is it Rita)
> 
> I reckon they should add another engine (perhaps elec motor) to your tag then you could zip up hills
> 
> Frank


Aye, a big 8 litre Cummins deisel pusher would do me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock (definately not Rita) :lol:


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## 88927

:lol: :lol: @ Jock..............
That would make the bed rock and roll matey :lol: :lol: Might even cause it to smoke if you don't clip it down properly eh?????
:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## JockandRita

:lol: :lol: @ Keith

How about one of those engines that they use in Truck Dragsters.

I have never seen a motorhome driving along on it's a##e end before. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or if not a motorhome, this will do.

Jock.


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## 101411

Hey up Jock

That could be the way forward I bet you NEVER have to worry about running out of water 1/2 way through a shower!!!

Dazzer


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## Snelly

Sorry for those sat waiting for me to read up on the heating system... Im at work until Wednesday! So it will be well into next week before I get down to the rv again.

Carry on the discussion...


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## artona

Hi Shane

Glad you took onboard my suggestion to change the title of this thread. Well done mate :lol: :lol: 


stew


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## 98452

Next question must be how long will a tank full of LPG last.................?

While driving along with everything operating :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## artona

Hi John

How big is the tank    


stew


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## 88781

> I was following a convoy of Italian motorhomes not that long ago (do they travel in convoys in Italy as well?) There was a strong x wind and they were bobbing about all over the place except one in the middle a 3 axle hymer (tag axle?).


 I would have thought that strong crosswinds, would have an adverse effect on most high sided vehicles, after all the shape of a slab sided coachbuilt motorhome is about as aerodynamic as a house brick, irrespective of it's country of origin or engine size?

What about those times when the cross wind can be gusty causing dynamic vehicle loading and unsteady response, ...even in a steady wind conditions all vehicles experience an effect when travelling past large buildings, or a forest or when exiting a tunnel out to a more open landscape. Also when opposing traffic and overtaking, sensitivity of crosswind effects can be quite severe especially between passenger cars and HGV's.
You must have noticed this type of effect Frank when being overtaken by a larger vehicle and felt your panel van being either pushed away or sucked in as it overtakes you? Length and engine size have no bearing
:wink:


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## 88927

I know we are off topic here but just to add to this discussion (sorry Shane, will try to get it back on track soon mate :lol: )
I have learned a trick that helps with the bow wave of larger vehicles when they overtake you.... You watch out for them in your mirror and when they are approaching the rear of the vehicle, just ease off the gas pedal to slow you down a fraction, when the overtaking vehicle is about halfway along the side of your vehicle just ease back down on the gas to give yourself a bit more forward momentum. This seems to lessen the effect of being pushed around (although I have noticed that the RV gets pushed about a lot less than previous motorhomes did :lol: ).
I thought that this bit of advice may be of some help to you and it is why I have passed it on here......
Hope this helps

Keith

PS, John, the lpg tank will definitely outlast the petrol tank in your bus mate :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sallytrafic

MandyandDave said:


> I was following a convoy of Italian motorhomes not that long ago (do they travel in convoys in Italy as well?) There was a strong x wind and they were bobbing about all over the place except one in the middle a 3 axle hymer (tag axle?).
> 
> 
> 
> I would have thought that strong crosswinds, would have an adverse effect on most high sided vehicles, after all the shape of a slab sided coachbuilt motorhome is about as aerodynamic as a house brick, irrespective of it's country of origin or engine size?
> 
> What about those times when the cross wind can be gusty causing dynamic vehicle loading and unsteady response, ...even in a steady wind conditions all vehicles experience an effect when travelling past large buildings, or a forest or when exiting a tunnel out to a more open landscape. Also when opposing traffic and overtaking, sensitivity of crosswind effects can be quite severe especially between passenger cars and HGV's.
> You must have noticed this type of effect Frank when being overtaken by a larger vehicle and felt your panel van being either pushed away or sucked in as it overtakes you? Length and engine size have no bearing
> :wink:
Click to expand...

No for the following reasons

1. With a 2.5 TDi and only about 2600Kg its me doing the overtaking so I'm prepared and if there is a large speed differential I leave more room.
2. I have a wheel at each corner ie no rear overhang, its only 85 cm from centre of rear wheel to rear of van. Much less than equivalent Fiat panel van except the swb. (Its not the length that affects dynamic stability but rather the various ratios between height, wheelbase and length.) 
3. Its also without any extra bits sticking out from its original designed panel van shape apart from 1 roof vent.
4. If I take my hands off the wheel when driving in gusty cross winds it compensates better than I can. 
5. Although I have 1.90m standing room everywhere bar the cab the van is just less than 2.5m high .

IMHO Rear end stability is greatly improved by a double axle.

The most unstable vans I have seen on the road come close to exceeding the 65% of wheelbase rear overhang rule. Especially if this is coupled with 3m plus height on normal van wheelbase width.

The 65% rule may not be an issue for stability if you have a dirty great big pusher sitting over the rear wheels which greatly improves the stability situation.

Of course I'm not a vehicle designer but these are my observations having compared good and bad designs of all sizes, from Bedford Rascals (V bad) to half empty fuel tankers (practically impossible).

Regards Frank


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