# Electrical Wiring



## Tasha (May 23, 2005)

I have a 2005 Fiat Ducato 2.8 based Hobby 700.
I wish to fit daylight running lights (for use in Europe).
As these units are low powered LED Units I would like to install them so they light as soon as I start the Engine.
Can anyone advise me where to connect the wiring as I do not have a wiring diagram?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I too wanted to fit something along those lines, but was warned by a reputable firm that I should consider the problems this might well cause to the the canbus, electronic box to you and me. :roll: :roll: 
so have not taken it any further, so I would suggest asking your main Fiat commercial dealer for an answer.telling them which lights and details of their consumption etc.
please let us know how you get on.


cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I too wanted to fit something along those lines, but was warned by a reputable firm that I should consider the problems this might well cause to the the canbus, electronic box to you and me. :roll: :roll: 
so have not taken it any further, so I would suggest asking your main Fiat commercial dealer for an answer.telling them which lights and details of their consumption etc.
please let us know how you get on.


cabby


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Cabby,

The OP's 'van is a 2005 model, it won't be Canbus.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Why not connect to the sidelight circuit, and run with the sidelights on.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I am sure on here that someone has already fitted them and posted the lamp units that are best and cheapest.

cabby

thanks pomme1


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## Tasha (May 23, 2005)

*Daylight Running Lights o 2005 Ducato*

Hi Again - Thanks for your replies.

In answer to running with sidelights - I have 12 of them, whereas with LED running lights only a lot less power is required.
I have bought a Change-over relay to allow running lights on with ignition and Off with sidelights.
The problem still remains - where to obtain power feeds on my van
1 - ignition on power
2 - Sidelights on Power

To complicate matters I have high power Hella headlights fitted


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Not wishing to rain on the parade, but are such modifications going to fall foul of the tougher MoT rules?

I believe that for the pass to be issued all of the original electrical fittings have to work as originally fitted, will not high power headlights and extra LED lights alter that from the original?

I also believe that increasing the wattage of headlights is illegal within the EU and can cause excess heat which can damage the housings.

http://www.powerbulbs.com/eu/blog/2008/10/are-high-wattage-headlight-bulbs-legal

Hella have a range of 900mm LED lights which look to give an incredibly bright white light - I wonder what it would be like viewed from the other direction at night? Are those the sort of headlights that you are talking about?

I know that even the Xenon ones which are blue-white and commonly found in new top of the range cars are VERY bright when seen from the opposite direction and can cause dazzle even if not on full beam.....

I would welcome comments since I am sure this could be of interest to all of us - I know how rubbish our night vision was when we brought the MH to France with masking to correct the wrong dip - the difference with the correct dipping lights is astronomical so improving lights may be of value to those that drive a lot in the dark.

Dave


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi Tasha, I too was thinking of using the daytime LED lights for Europe, especially where there is a requirement for running with headlamps on in daytime. What stopped me was whether they are considered a replacement for headlamps in these countries. They do not appear to bring on the side lights and hence the rear lights, so would presumably be illegal when using a tunnel where lighting is obligatory. I know they dim when headlamps are switched on, but what happens when you turn side lights on.

You mention the problem with where to take the feed from, but reading the installation details (for the Hella one I believe) the connection was quite straightforward.

Gary.


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## p-c (Oct 27, 2007)

Hi
These are one of those recommended on here, as Cabby remembered.

http://www.ledcom.co.uk/daylight-ru...it_drl_fiat_ducato_van_motorhome_2002_to_2006

I fitted them to my 2004 Fiat relatively easily but this piece of kit has a control box and I just followed the instructions. I can't suggest where to wire a non standard set, sorry.

As a point of interest I fitted them for use in Italy where DRL or headlights are law. I frequently disable them, especially in the UK, just by removing the fuse. I did have them on for the MOT last month and it passed.

p-c


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## Tasha (May 23, 2005)

*Daylight running lights*

My high Power headlights ARE LEGAL. 
Fitted as original in Germany by Hobby, they are Hella Xenon lights.
These headlights are excellent and conform to both UK & EU law


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Penquin said:


> Not wishing to rain on the parade, but are such modifications going to fall foul of the tougher MoT rules?
> 
> I believe that for the pass to be issued all of the original electrical fittings have to work as originally fitted, will not high power headlights and extra LED lights alter that from the original?
> 
> ...


When I bought a set of Ring LEDs they were supplied with two sets of instructions - one to operate as DLRs the other to operate as supplementary along with the sidelights.

Wiring these to come on alongside the 'obligatory position lamps' (a.k.a. sidelights) should not cause any problems - quoting from the Installation Instructions: 
"Optional front position lights
There are no legal requirements if the front position lights are to be wired into the vehicle's current sidelight circuit and
operated in conjunction with the sidelights."

Note this manual also shows the alternative wiring and may be helpful to Tasha

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/files/mydocs/RING BRL0400 Instr HI-RES.pdf

This would appear to be confirmed in the new MOT manual which states:

"Optional lamps. Any additional position lamps are optional and are not included in the inspection."

http://www.ukmot.com/1-1.asp

I will be able to test this in practice some August when my 'van goes in for its MOT. I have printed out a copy of this section of the manual along with a copy of the wiring diagram from Ring which I will leave in the glovebox for referral in case they erroneously fail it for this!

I have fitted two sets of these, one at low level and the other alongside the high level sidelights on the overcab. Before anyone comes on whinging about me potentially dazzling other users, the type I have chosen are called Styling Lamps and are nowhere near the same high intensity as those sold as full DLRs which have to reduce intensity or turn off when the main lights are turned on.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

For information try reading this link;

http://www.phoenixautobulbs.co.uk/tp/hid-kits-new-legislation-2012

there are some very interesting points in there about after market fitting of Xenon lights.

From VOSA;

_"In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern._

_The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and *therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law*._

That makes interesting reading considering that many e.g. BMW's are fitted with them, as are Minis I believe......... :?

Dave


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## Jeannette (Aug 7, 2012)

Xenon lights are not HID lights...... Xenon bulbs are Halogen bulbs with Xenon gas added in order to bring the colour temperature close to the normal daylight range and to increase the brightness of the bulb without increasing the dazzle or the heat. Within a certain light temperature range and wattage they are perfectly legal to fit in replacement of standard halogen bulbs and in fact are a recommend upgrade by the motoring organisations.

HID units require a ballast and a light housing that is specifically designed to take them. This design has to be a projector housing with appropriate shuttering to stop dazzle to ongoing drivers, self levelling and washers as even small amounts of dirt on the lens scatters and blinds drivers coming the other way. It is illegal to fit an HID kit to a car with a lamp unit not designed for it and is an automatic MOT fail now. Not to mention they are anti social and people fitting them should be shot.....

Going back to the original question.... If your van was not fitted with day running lights originally then you are not required to have them fitted to use it in Europe. The rules are not applied retrospectively, just the same as we can carry passengers in vans without seat belts and my Landrover has side facing seats with no belts.

However if you are just looking for something to do or want then for cosmetic reasons then you will there are plenty of ignition lives feeds in the engine compartment to tap into and run them. As they are LED they will consume a fraction of an amp in current so can be taken from any live feed. Get a circuit tester and just probe the wires until you find a live that comes with the ignition and scotch block the connection on. Jobs done in 20 minutes.

Regards
Steve


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