# Handbrake will not stay up



## redjumpa (Sep 5, 2008)

I have a 1991 Hymer 544 on a 2500 Ducato base. The handbrake works fine (as in it locks the wheels) but it will not stay up on the ratchet. It holds for a few seconds and then goes down with a bang!!

I've managed to remove the the cover (after taking out a couple of floor sections!!) but can't see the problem.

Any help from you experts out there would be really appreciated.


----------



## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

rachet worn. adjust cable so the handbrake is on in a different position. if you know what I mean

Loddy

Only temp of course cause it could be dangerous


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

No chance of it being like the one I had in my Renault Master that was designed that way. It returned to the lower position after the handbrake was set on. To take the handbrake off you lifted it up, felt the tension, and then could release it as per normal. It was designed to go down when set so that the seat could be swivelled.


----------



## GEOMAR (Mar 16, 2008)

*handbrake*

Hi
it appears to me that the button has stuck in the down position , not sure how to rectify this
ALFG


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
Handbrake should hold the vehicle after 5 clicks, adjusting the cables differently means that the back brakes will rub as you drive giving a big bill for rear brake drums and relining or the handbrake will not hold properly and you may have the spectacle of watching your pride and joy vanishing down the hill! Your handbrake ratchet is obviously worn out, bite the bullet and get it replaced,  
Regards,
Chris


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It's either a worn ratchet, or possibly it's twisting enough to slip sideways off the ratchet, or the button sticking, as mentioned.

Kev.


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Kev_Behr said:


> It's either a worn ratchet, or possibly it's twisting enough to slip sideways off the ratchet, or the button sticking, as mentioned.
> Kev.


WD40 for the button, new dentures for the ratchet!

Peter


----------



## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

i had a transit that did this and I was able to overcome it by reversing the toothed plate so that the opposite side of the slope of the tooth was used. Could be worth looking to see if you can do this.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I bet you can peel an orange in your pocket too. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

At least I hope that's what you were doing.

Kev.


----------



## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

stickey said:


> Hi,
> Handbrake should hold the vehicle after 5 clicks, adjusting the cables differently means that the back brakes will rub as you drive giving a big bill for rear brake drums and relining or the handbrake will not hold properly and you may have the spectacle of watching your pride and joy vanishing down the hill! Your handbrake ratchet is obviously worn out, bite the bullet and get it replaced,
> Regards,
> Chris


Handbrake can hold after 5 or 15 clicks as long as there is adequate reserve travel

Loddy


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Sorry, I believe what the manual recommends,
Chris


----------



## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

stickey said:


> Sorry, I believe what the manual recommends,
> Chris


MOT tester

Loddy


----------



## jonse (Nov 2, 2008)

*hand brake*

Sounds like my Friends F/scudo the ratchet has gone and its not reparable 140 euros to re place here in France hope this is not your problem though good luck any way


----------



## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

If it's a case of a few worn teeth, and a replacement can't be found/costs too much, consider getting it built up with weld and filed to shape.

I did this with a leccy window mechanism on a Toyota Camry - Toyota dealer wanted to sell me the whole gubbins for more than I paid for the car 8O .


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I would not advise welding and grinding, the whole weight of the MH will be on the handbrake, not a window.

Have you priced up a hand brake assembly, new or used?

Kev.


----------



## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

It is quite possible that if you are a little technical minded you can repair it yourself.

What happens when you pull your handbrake up and you hear the clicking is a little metal cam called a "Pall" drops into a little notched plate called a "Cam" it could be any one of three different things,
1. The spring has weakened and is therefore not pushing the pall into the cam, 

2, The Pall has worn and is not dropping far enough into the cam.

3. The cam has worn and will not hold the Pall.

What you can do is 1 of 2 things.

1. remove and replace the whole handbrake.

2. strip and replace the Cam/pall.

It used to be possible to buy these but nowadays I doubt it very much, You could get one from a Scrapyard and replace it.

One of the problems is that a handbrake is NOT designed for the button to be pressed when applying the handbrake, It is ONLY designed for releasing the handbrake.

ie when applying the handbrake let the ratchet "Click" as this shows and allows the Pall and Cam to work correctly by allowing the spring to "Ram" the pall home into the Cam..

I certainly would NOT recommend "Making" the parts yourself.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

If you depress the button as you pull the handbrake "on" and then release it when the lever has reached the correct position you ensure that the two metal surfaces (ratchet and pall) do NOT grind against each other (thats what the clicking noise is, the parts wearing down, albeit slowly) 

That way your handbrake ratchet will never wear out !!! 

I appreciate that this is of sod all use to you as yours is clearly knackered and needs to be replaced BUT it might save others the expense in the future!!

Here endeth todays lesson in sanctimony and know-it-all-ness!!! !!! 

If anyone requires me I can be located under my stone where I have just retreated too!!!


----------



## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Two points:
1. The notched plate is properly called a ratchet.
2. The little tooth that engages with the ratchet is called a pawl.

Another very important item to note here is NEVER, EVER, rely on your handbrake only to hold the vehicle. Always leave it in first (bottom) or reverse gear as well. This applies to all vehicles, not just motorhomes. Costs nothing & provides "belt & braces" security against vehicle rolling away.


----------



## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

As it is, it is an MOT failure and in a dangerous condition, your insurance company would wash there hands of any cover that you have with them. I had to have a new lever put on a Mondeo because the MOT inspector said part of the test was to hit the lever from the side, and if it released that was an automatic failure.


----------



## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> If you depress the button as you pull the handbrake "on" and then release it when the lever has reached the correct position you ensure that the two metal surfaces (ratchet and pall) do NOT grind against each other (thats what the clicking noise is, the parts wearing down, albeit slowly)
> 
> That way your handbrake ratchet will never wear out !!!
> 
> ...


Totally and Absolutely INCORRECT.

The most common cause of a Handbrake failing is that when the button is released it is NOT CORRECTLY in the Ratchet slot and this causes stress on the end of the Pall and eventually can break off and cause the problem that is described here.

The plate with all the teeth on is called a Cam, The teeth are called ratchets.

I was involved with the improvement and design of handbrakes for a good few years at Rolls Royce Derby so I profess to know a little about it.

And this is the end of my posts on this subject as I do not want to be involved in arguments with self professed mechanics.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well we just have to agree to differ then wont we.

I will leave people to make their own minds up as to which opinion they wish to accept. What causes wear? two metal surfaces never touching or the same surfaces constantly rubbing against each other??

It makes precious little difference to me I was merely trying to be helpful to others.

Yes I do hold a number of professional mechanical engineering qualifications which I do not propose to list. I know what they are and thats good enough for me.

As far as I am concerned its subject closed.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Who gives a monkeys what the parts are called.


There are only two options, no room for argument at all, the poor lad/lass needs to either get a new one or a good used one, that's it, end of thread.

As there is no way to mend it properly without access to lots of tools, and a forge would be handy to temper the teethy bit that the clicky bit goes in, see now you've upset me and I've gone all technical.

Kev.


----------



## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

Nice and succinct Kev.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It's a gift.

Kev.


----------



## redjumpa (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who has posted on the subject.

I'm now firmly of the opinion that I need a new (or good 2nd hand) unit so google here I come!!

OBTW it's only a forum............lets not fall out!!


----------



## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

Kev_Behr said:


> I would not advise welding and grinding, the whole weight of the MH will be on the handbrake, not a window.
> 
> Kev.


I'm not sure how you work that one out, the weight would be acting on the brake linings imo, and would vary according to the slope, but I'd agree the part is more safety related.


----------



## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

I would not advise self manufacture of any of these parts as the steel is of higher tensile to allow for strength, It is only usually miss-use that causes a handbrake to fail in this manner, either that or a fault in the manufacturing process.

The higher tensile steel protects against normal everyday uses.


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hey this has been fun hasn't it :roll: I always used to press the button and pull the lever up and then let the button go to lock it believing that this reduced the wear but after some Vauxhalls rolled away (featured on watchdog a few months ago) the manufacturers recommendation is that you pull the handbrake on without touching the button and allow it to click, and as youknow I always follow the manufacturers recommendation :wink: 
Regards,
Chris.
PS anyone old enough to have had to perform a handbrake gearchange on a crash gearbox Austin K9 as part of their test? Now that took some doing


----------



## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

That truck was one of the first Break Down Trucks I drove, It had a Jib on the back that was hand winch to lift any break downs on, It was originally a Forces truck that was converted.

Talk about Double de Clutch today and folks look at you gone out.

What about the brakes, If you wanted to stop a bit sharp you lifted yourself off the seat straightened your leg and pushed as hard as you can, That was where the saying "stood on the brakes" came from I am sure.

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

As for your other comment re handbrake, I did not know about the Vauxhalls saga, But if you think on it is called a "Handbrake release button", Now if you also remember as you are talking about K9's you sound of my age and when I was learning to drive I was taught to apply the handbrake without pressing the button.

Wear and tear does not enter the equation, wear and tear ONLY applies when "Friction" is an accompanying factor, as the handbrake is applied the stroke is so short that zero friction is present, Well it is certainly well within safety standard.

If wear and tear was to be a factor, down at the bottom of the handbrake where the cable or a piston attaches itself to the fulcrum, whichever type of handbrake you have the item is attached with a Clevis pin.
Would this Clevis pin not wear through as this pin is the part that takes ALL the strain AND wear EVERY time an handbrake is either applied or released ????


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
When I was taught to drive (40 years ago) the Armys vehicle of choice was the Austin K9, crash gearbox, no indicators apart from your arm, at least 6 feet of bonnet to stick out of a junction before you could see anything, plenty of power from its petrol engine but not much in the way of brakes. You were expected to change into a lower gear going downhill to stop the truck running away but if you were caught out by a sudden hill, you slowed down on the footbrake, applied enough handbrake to stop the truck speeding up, changed into 3rd and then let the handbrake off. What inevitably happened was the back wheels locked up, great fun,
Regards,
Chris


----------



## WSandME (May 16, 2007)

Although my last few cars have had hand-operated parking brakes, my Hymer has a traditional "hand"brake. In my experience, the "benefit" of not depressing the button when setting the brake is that you can hear the ratchet mechanism operating, so have some confidence that it has "locked". Depress whilst setting, and you may release the button in such a way that the pawl doesn't engage fully with the ratchet. 
You would have to really overdo the setting, over many years, to wear the ratchet out! (If you don't believe me, try wearing one smooth piece of steel down using another smooth piece of steel :~) )


----------

