# Battery matters



## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

I have trawled through this site seeking answers to the various questions I have regarding batteries but I am as confused as ever!

Can I therefore ask for simple answers to the following questions?!

*Motorcaravan Batteries *
Should I keep the 'van on permanent hook up when it is not in use? 
How long would one expect a battery to last with an alarm/mobiliser connected? 
Is it advisable NOT to run the batteries completely flat? 
What happens if I have?! 
Is there any reason why the alarm cannot be run off the leisure battery? 
Is there any reason why I should not charge the engine battery through the cigarette lighter on the dashboard?

*mobile phone batteries* 
I have been told it is better to run them right down before charging. Is this true? 
On average how long can I expect a mobile phone battery to last in months?

*Disabilty Scooter Batteries *
Again I have been advised to run these right down before charging. Is this advisable? 
I have been told not to leave them outside in the cold weather. Any comments? 
(I am using Gel batteries)

Thanks in anticipation of the answers I am sure I will receive!


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Blimey a multiple choice questionnaire.......and I have no doubt you will get multiple choice answers...here are mine......but please see the small print*

Motorcaravan Batteries 
_Should I keep the 'van on permanent hook up when it is not in use?_
Short answer..Yes (well up to 2-3 weeks)......... Long answer....George, I hope, will be along in a mo to give you the long answer

_How long would one expect a battery to last with an alarm/mobiliser connected?_
Until it is flat (sorry :lol: )...experience will answer that one....maybe 3 weeks..it depends on the drain current of the alarm

_Is it advisable NOT to run the batteries completely flat? 
What happens if I have?! _
To be on the safe side aim to use 50% of the capacity of the battery...occasional use of 70% is deemed to be OK by some. If you completely, and I mean completely, flatten a lead acid battery you will not only have damaged it you may find it impossible to charge with a normal battery charger.

_Is there any reason why the alarm cannot be run off the leisure battery? _
No

_Is there any reason why I should not charge the engine battery through the cigarette lighter on the dashboard?_
NO...as long as the socket is live without the ignition turned on.

_mobile phone batteries 
I have been told it is better to run them right down before charging. Is this true? 
On average how long can I expect a mobile phone battery to last in months?_
Part 1.....with nicad batteries YES...with the newer NiMh or Li-ion batteries NO (but an occasional good discharge and full recharge will keep them in tip top condition)
Part2......24.....months that is

_Disabilty Scooter Batteries 
Again I have been advised to run these right down before charging. Is this advisable? 
I have been told not to leave them outside in the cold weather. Any comments? 
(I am using Gel batteries)_

Gel batteries are like any other lead acid battery ...they do not like to be left in a part charged state...So it depends on you usage of the Scooter....but the battery will last longer if it is stored fully charged, so after a trip out the battery should be charged. How long you charge it for is maybe more important.... It would be worth checking out the spec of the battery charger that you are using....if it is a multi stage charger it will not over charge your battery....if it is a simple charger overcharging may be a problem.
As to leaving them out in the cold...the only disadvantage of this that I can think of is that they work better at "normal" temperatures....you will not, I think, damage them by leaving them out in a freeze as long as they are charged.

Mike
*Disclaimer :roll: 
I do not endorse any of the advice. I provide it to you as a service. I can neither guarantee the soundness of the advice, nor make any claims as to the outcome of following this advice. I provide it for your entertainment only. Should you choose to follow any of the advice, it is solely at your own risk. This is not intended to substitute for obtaining advice from appropriate sources and/or professional counseling. I recommend you consult an appropriate professional, counselor, and/or a trusted advisor before taking any action based on this advice. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Can I therefore ask for simple answers to the following questions?!

*Motorcaravan Batteries *
Should I keep the 'van on permanent hook up when it is not in use? Yes if you can, would be good to havea good 3-4 stage charger though

How long would one expect a battery to last with an alarm/mobiliser connected? You need to find the ampage draw and then your battery capacity and then depending on how its charged I can give you an estimate 
Is it advisable NOT to run the batteries completely flat? Yes 50% is the sweet spit

What happens if I have?! I am afraid that completely flat is generally terminal, your battery is probably no more, its deceased.
Is there any reason why the alarm cannot be run off the leisure battery? none whatsoever

Is there any reason why I should not charge the engine battery through the cigarette lighter on the dashboard? yes fuse size, poor connection

*mobile phone batteries* 
I have been told it is better to run them right down before charging. Is this true? yes and no, these type can suffer from memory effect so its better to run then flat ery so oiften ( but not every time )

On average how long can I expect a mobile phone battery to last in months? this question as posted is not possible to answer

*Disabilty Scooter Batteries *

Again I have been advised to run these right down before charging. Is this advisable? depends on the type lead or gel or AGM no way, any other bunches of initials suffer from memory effect (just spotted the next bit) I would take it the salesman said that then hoping to sell you a new set, no do not run gel right down

I have been told not to leave them outside in the cold weather. Any comments? (I am using Gel batteries) yes they told ya right dont let them get cold

But heh should I really help you? if anything goes wrong surely now I am a target for being sued, so please ignore all of the above as its non professional and please get real professional advice they will have liability insurance, I would ask now while the prices are still affordable, in a few years all the petty claims will make liabilty insurance extremely expensive and thus the price for advice will skyrocket. (tongue in cheek, but the joke as a moral)


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Nice disclaimer Mike

Hope it doesnt develop into an STP Stressful Traumatic Post


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi George


:lol: Yes I thought it was a good time to add one too :lol: and I did warn Invicta that the answers could be multiple choice :lol: 

regards

Mike


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Invicta said:


> Can I therefore ask for simple answers to the following questions?!


As someone famous once said 'Simple explanations are for simple minds - I have no time for either'.

BUT I have to say as far as it can be that the answers you have received are pretty well judged both in content and level, but the problem is (and this is the reason for the tongue in cheek disclaimers) batteries are dangerous and a little knowledge is dangerous as well. There are all sorts of problems and pit falls awaiting you if you take some of the advice and apply it out of the strict context that it was given in. It is perfectly possible to have two different but true answers to some of you questions if answering them simply.

Take the can I charge my battery through the lighter socket the answer should be:

Yes and No (which is more or less what you got).

No if you want to put more than 10A into your battery and aren't going to monitor the temperature of the socket or check the wiring and fuse or don't have the sort that is live with the ignition off.

Yes if you are maintaing a trickle charge to offset the alarm circuits etc (and even here you can get into an arguement about whether a starter battery responds well to a trickle charge at various states of it's charge).

Anyway keep asking the questions but don't be surprised if the experts fall out over the answers or make the answers more and more complicated or assume a more and more complicated question.

Best Regards Frank

PS opening quote only used so that someone can tell me who said it no offense meant to you or your question.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> Take the can I charge my battery through the lighter socket the answer should be:
> 
> Yes and No (which is more or less what you got).
> 
> ...


Hi Frank

thanks for clearing that up...the cigar lighter bit.

and it was Joe Orton....playwright and novelist who said that...it spawned a pop group too

Mike


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Frank

Simple minds are satisfied by simplistic explanations

but I can find no reference to the author

http://www.ethanwiner.com/wisdoms.html


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi George

the quote was:-

'Simple explanations are for simple minds - I have no time for either'

and as I said it was Joe Orton who said it...... that's simple enough I would have thought :lol: :lol: 

mike


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Mike

I totally understand what you are saying, but I can find no reference to Joe Orton having said it, have you a link or reference?

an Ortonism I do rememeber is 

I always wanted to be an orphan. I could have, if it wasn't for my parents. 

Type that into a search engine and straight away loads of references, with the other one typed in and nothing.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> I totally understand what you are saying, but I can find no reference to Joe Orton having said it, have you a link or reference?


 8O Who cares? I thought the Topic was Batteries?


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> I totally understand what you are saying, but I can find no reference to Joe Orton having said it, have you a link or reference?


Hi George....

Sorry I do not have a reference to hand....but you can quote me :wink:.......I will look for one though.

Mike

P.S. I do like the "orphan" quote


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

johnsandywhite said:


> 8O Who cares? I thought the Topic was Batteries?


It was, we are completely off topic and enjoying it! .... really JSW if you cannot say anything usefull why say anything at all! Try answering the original question, like we have.. :lol: :lol:

and you can quote me on that! :lol:

Mike


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

spykal said:


> Try answering the original question, like we have.. :lol: :lol: and you can quote me on that! :lol: Mike


 8O I would if I could. But I can't so I shan't. What do I know about batteries? :lol:


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## Greycat (Nov 2, 2005)

On reading the above posts on batteries I went out to start my van. The result, it wouldn't start. This van has been connected to the mains hook up for the last two weeks,I was under the impression being hooked to the mains would keep my battery charged.I am talking about the starter battery now, What about the leisure battery, should that be also charged by the hook up. I have a battery tester with three lights red amber & green.The starter was on the red light the leisure was on amber and red.Does this indicate that a new starter battery will be needed shortly.
Roy


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi greycat

Different vans have different charging set ups. So not having enough information on your particular van all I can suggest is that you check just what is happening when you are on hook up and the charger is switched on. The most usual set up would be that your leisure battery will be on charge..not the vehicle battery. With some vehicles there is a three way switch which can direct the charge to the vehicle battery, the leisure battery or not charge either but just supply power to the the lights and appliances in the van (I am not sure if yours is like this)

Maybe post a more detailed description of your van, exact model and year...then maybe someone will come up with a "custom answer".

A digital voltimeter would help you check just what is happening..but this would entail some prior knowledge of how to use one. How do you feel about giving it a try. Meters are a cheap tool and can be used for many other jobs. If you can get hold of one come back for the necessary help. You will use it to check the voltages at the batteries when the charger is working and any switches are operated.

Just a thought ...what does the instruction manual say? or do you not have one?

Mike


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## Greycat (Nov 2, 2005)

Hello Skykal.
Thank you for yor help.I understand now that both of my batteries are not charged by the electric hook up. I take it that hooking up on site just gives one electric for the internal lights and plugs.The van in question is a Hymer 534 of 1992 vintage, owned since September 2005.The mileage is 72,000 Klm.I have generaly driven it twice a week since purchase. But owing to the weather of late it has stood for the last two weeks.This indicates to me that the starter battery is on the way out. Do you agree. I have got the battery charging up at the moment so that I can get to an auto electrician then perhaps they can put me in the picture as regards what charges what.
Roy


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Greycat

Just a bit more info to clarify:

_I take it that hooking up on site just gives one electric for the internal lights and plugs_

Yes, on Hook up you will get mains power from the mains plug sockets, via a distribution board with fuses and maybe a RCB breaker. The lights, pump and other 12volt equipment will still be powered from your leisure battery but that will be constantly "topped up" from the charger/power unit. ( as long as it is switched on :wink: ).

_But owing to the weather of late it has stood for the last two weeks.This indicates to me that the starter battery is on the way out. Do you agree._

I cannot say whether the battery is on the way out, if you have an alarm fitted it may be powered from this battery and it may have flattened the battery in the two weeks......also we do not know the state of charge when you parked up the last time. Added to this ..all lead acid batteries thrive on being kept in a fully charged state....I wonder how old the battery is and how much abuse it has had?

_I have got the battery charging up at the moment so that I can get to an auto electrician then perhaps they can put me in the picture as regards what charges what_

Good thinking.........the auto electrician should be able to check out the charging circuits very quickly.....(try to be there when he does it, you will learn a lot about the van and its wiring)

Mike


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## Greycat (Nov 2, 2005)

Spykal.
Mike thank you for all your help very much appreciated.
Roy


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Some good initial questions there & excellent replies. I'm lucky enought to be able to keep my vehicle on EHU at home 24/7 and (according to how I interpret the manual!) there is a gizmo there which keeps the engine battery topped up when the leisure battery is "surplus" charge (similar principal to Van Blitz battery master I assume?)

However-- George says I should still have a 3-stage charger as well. Is there any point in this in view of the above? (er-not too technical if poss. If it's not poss I'll have a go at understanding!)
Thanks


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Telbell said:


> George says I should still have a 3-stage charger as well. Is there any point in this in view of the above?


Hi Telbell 
Good point, whatever works for you why change.? 
Lots of good advice and plenty of expertise on this forum but sometimes it's conflicting, which makes for good debate but in my view ... 
if it ain't broke.. don't fix it.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Tellbell

I cannot recall telling you that. No matter.

Topped up sort of implies that the battery is full and kept there, which is highley unlikely without a decent charger.

Totally non tecnical, here we go, do you have a specific electrical problem ? If not dont change anything. If you do have something you would like resolved post a description and I'll try to help.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> I totally understand what you are saying, but I can find no reference to Joe Orton having said it, have you a link or reference?
> .


Hi George

Here is a reference ...took me ages to find it...but I have reached that time of life where I try not let anything bug me but sometimes I do weaken, especially in a case like this....all I need is my brain defragmenting and I would be OK :lol: Sorry to all the other readers....off topic and boring, boring, I know :roll:

Mike

It is to be found in The Oxford Guide to English Usage.

_either (adjective and pronoun). 
(1) One or other of the two, e.g.
Simple explanations are for simple minds. I've no use for
either (Joe Orton).
(2) Each of the two, e.g. Every few
kilometres on either side of the road, there were Haitian and
Dominican guard-posts (Graham Greene).

Either is frequently used in sense (2), in preference to each,
with reference to a thing that comes naturally in a pair, e.g.
end, hand, side. This use is sometimes ignorantly condemned but
is both the older sense of either and commonly found in good
writers of all periods._


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

George- Sorry, just my interpretation of your posting 1230am Sunday. :? :? 
I wondered if you meant it's best to take battery off and charge with a 3-stage every now & then?
Not having any problems at the moment though!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Tellbell

It is always *better* to have and use 3-4 stage charger, the advantages are.

1. Battery fully charged, which means more hours usuage, it can make a huge difference to poorly charged batteries, 
2. Battery unlikely to get hardened sulphation, ergo battery healthier and can last years longer before replacement.

That said if you dont mind replacing the battery every couple of years (can cost more than the charger) and the battery lasts long enough, ie you dont keep losing power mid way through a TV program or whatever, is there a compelling reason to change? Your choice.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thanks George-fair enough


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