# Cancer ,Well how does it look



## aldra

So he had prostate cancer

Treated by radiotherapy 

Monitored by 6 monthly tests

Ok so far

And melanoma, which wasn’t promising given the depth, but he’s still here, lymph nodes removed, countless metastasis surgically removed from his arm ,a huge arm due to lymphodemia

But he wouldn’t let him be defined by that

Used it, shook hands 
Until

It began to reverse 

Which can’t happen according to research 

Agreed to tests for research which found his body had found different pathways 

To reverse lymphademia 

But now has colon cancer 

Best of three?

We are both shattered by the news

But I guess we just have to battle this as well 

Start a new 5 year battle 

Knowing other battles may make it unimportant

Sandra


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## patp

How are thing going, Sandra?


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## barryd

Your both fighters. It must be devastating news but you can get through this. Do they know what stage the colon cancer is? What is the prognosis?


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## raynipper

Two family members have had colon cancer removed and their lives are back to 'normal' again. Yes very uncomfortable for many months but always light at the end of the tunnel.

Ray.


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## jiwawa

Fingers crossed that Albert's can similarly be treated.


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## aldra

Waiting for a return call from the specialist nurse 

The MDT was on Friday when they discussed the options from the scan results 

Unfortunately as it’s a new cancer the treatment in the first instance is local, then Christie’s will continue 
to monitor it 

Going for third time lucky at the moment Barry 

Sandra


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## aldra

Unfortunately the scan report wasn’t available so it will be next Friday when the Meeting takes place

So another week 

Sandra


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## barryd

Thats a pain. A weeks going to feel like a month. Try and stay positive though.


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## aldra

Phone call this morning from the Bowel Nurse 

Appointment to see the surgeon, Mr Byrne , this Thursday ,prior to MDT Friday

He has a vacancy on his list next Tuesday to operate to remove the tumour , hopefully by keyhole surgery 

We will know more on Thursday I hope re type and depth of tumour

Sandra


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## patp

Considering how long waiting lists for ops can be that is quite a result Sandra.


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## jiwawa

It's good news that things are moving quickly.


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## aldra

It is quite a result

But Alberts been very down since the call, I guess it just makes it all the more real 

Which seems silly as cancer is real 

But suddenly he has the appointment to see the surgeon and the date for surgery 

It was only two weeks ago he had the colonoscopy and discovered he had bowel cancer so he hasn’t really had time to get his head around it

It’s not like him to get really down, that’s usually me in the wee small hours of the morning when he’s asleep ,but he’ll cycle his now 15 miles a day tomorrow morning 

And knowing him he will sort it 

Sandra


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## aldra

ps Barry

He’s having a bottle of wine tonight 

As he says, he’ll feed the bugger one last time before it’s cut out 

He’s been on fruit and veg juice and homemade veg soups since he found out 

Well we both have, I always join him 

And lost 1/2 a stone, which makes a 2 1/2 stone loss , which makes his belly fat much improved 

Definitely good for a abdominal op 

Only a stone to go 

Lovely to talk to you yesterday Barry , you cheered me up to hear your voice 

Enjoy your holiday , sorry to hear the donkeys are gone

What’s a van compared to donkeys ?

A nibble here a nibble there?

Sandra


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## aldra

Seen the surgeon today

Op set for Tuesday morning,” keyhole” surgery , which cuts down recovery time

It isn’t a metastasis of melanoma but a new primary cancer 

I was surprised to find how large a section of bowel they remove, the whole of the right ascending bowel 

It’s to do with the blood supply to the remaining bowel it seems 

Should have known if only because of Shadow 

Was left a bit worried by the surgeons comment that their is a small area of “ inflammation “ in the right lung but they would scan that again in three months 

So I’m trying to ignore worrying about that 

Just let’s get him over this and back home 

I’ve told him I’ll feed him chicken and rice, it’s kept the hell hound alive for years longer than he should have lasted >

Well we just need to keep going , not much choice really , Tuesday will be a very worrying day for all the family

Sandra


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## jiwawa

Shadow mightn't be too happy if he's to share his chicken and rice with Albert!

Tuesday's not so far away but in another dimension it's aeons of worrying.

Thinking of you all.


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## aldra

Yep

I’m worrying 

And I tell myself why?

He should be dead from melanoma, and may yet loose that fight 

So a new cancer to fight 

And fight it we will

Many don’t have that opportunity 

Sandra


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## patp

Will be thinking of you both.


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## aldra

I hope so

Tuesday is the date

I’ll be a wreck

I’ll have him dead and buried

And having family won’t help

How could I tell them I’ve already buried their dad, grandad 

Others may be stronger

Me I’m such a frightened wuss

Everything that could go wrong swirls around my mind

You’d think by now I’d learnt , come on three cancer attacks 

But in the wee small hours

Alone 

I feel so alone 

Sandra


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## patp

We met a woman, once, in France. She was on her third bout of cancer. All were different. She commuted from France to the UK for her treatment. Her consultant told her that some people seem to have the gene that means they are able to fight off cancer when it invades their body.

Albert might be such a person, Sandra.

You are never alone. Just pop a post on here and someone will answer.


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## aldra

I think Viv said that she had beaten it three times 

Don’t know if it was a repeat of the same cancer type though 

Sandra


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## barryd

patp said:


> We met a woman, once, in France. She was on her third bout of cancer. All were different. She commuted from France to the UK for her treatment. Her consultant told her that some people seem to have the gene that means they are able to fight off cancer when it invades their body.
> 
> Albert might be such a person, Sandra.
> 
> You are never alone. Just pop a post on here and someone will answer.


My aunt was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 lung cancer in 2011. We were worried about getting back to see her from a long Europe trip. She's still alive! Sadly she had a stroke a year or so ago but she must be the kind of person your talking about.

Never give up Sandra and your not alone.


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## aldra

Well Pat as I’ve discovered 

You are alone even on MHF

But that’s fine now, few I care about anyway 

I’ve learnt not to care, be open to attack by those you thought as friends 

And I guess they are not as forgiving as me 

Or as the old me was 

Some I really hoped would have posted because of Albert

Maybe those who met him , who shared our hospitality 

Who met him here virtually 

And maybe just those who feel

What the hell 

A cancer fight is worth supporting 

But we grow older and wiser even at 75 

To my ( few) friends on here 

Thank you 

Sandra


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## aldra

I’ve just found out Alberts niece has also been diagnosed with bowel cancer

His brother Joe died young 42 of a heart attack 

So now we need to convince our kids to have a bowel check 

As there is a hereditary factor

It’s a test every one over 50 should have 

A silent cancer, no symptoms , polyps in the bowel, easily removed can become cancerous 

Albert had no symptoms

A routine scan revealed hot spots

A colonoscopy revealed cancer

For our niece, symptoms attributed to other things by her Gp 

Meant it was advanced by the time it was discovered

Sandra


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## JanHank

I've had 3 colonoscopies, first 2 I had polyps removed the last one in September there were non. :grin2:

I don´t know what you are expecting anyone to say Sandra, what can they say accept they are sorry to here of Alberts trouble and wish him well, but surely that goes without saying, nobody will be pleased to hear he is in trouble again. There is just nothing for anyone to add.
It is a worrying time for you I know that, but getting angry yet again doesn't help you cope with it, you need to keep calm, your anger will only upset Albert.


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## aldra

Barry

I’ve succumbed and tonight I’m having wine

Really not supporting Albert who can’t 

But I’ve decided I really can’t manage to live with the scenarios going round my head alone

I’m sure tomorrow will be fine 

But I’m so anxious , and I need to be positive tonight 

He will be fine I’m telling myself 

Young Albert is here ,he’s been chopping and chainsawing wood all day with his grandad

And now enjoying a chicken casserole 

Alberts cycled 13 miles this morning 

Which is important as he has COPD 

Did I forget to mention that?

Alex, another grandkid will be here soon ,to stay the night , he’ll take his grandad to hospital tomorrow 

I no longer drive 

I never got to grips with the estate 

And painful swollen joints destroyed my confidence 

But as you see we are surrounded by supportive family 

Just can’t really talk to them about my fears which maybe completely stupid

And I’m not going to frighten them

Sandra


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## aldra

JanHank said:


> I've had 3 colonoscopies, first 2 I had polyps removed the last one in September there were non. :grin2:
> 
> I don´t know what you are expecting anyone to say Sandra, what can they say accept they are sorry to here of Alberts trouble and wish him well, but surely that goes without saying, nobody will be pleased to hear he is in trouble again. There is just nothing for anyone to add.
> It is a worrying time for you I know that, but getting angry yet again doesn't help you cope with it, you need to keep calm, your anger will only upset Albert.


No I far from getting angry Jan

You seem a bit angry girl

Yes I thought you wouldn't respond due to a previous fall out

But you did

And I'm glad

But you don't go back as many years as me

Or as yet as many friends , or would be friends

So grant me the right to mourns the loss of them

My anger will upset Albert?

Why, he would never come on M HF

He just has welcomed those who have met or stayed with us , because I did

You really think I tell him of angry, insulting posts Jan

Of course I don't

Why would I

You think he knew we fell out with each other

He didn't

You think he knew of you , the dog whisperer, shade and motley

Of course he did

Sandr


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## aldra

Anyway

The quiet of the night

And in spite of the wine

I’m afraid 

And I’m not going to tell Albert I’m afraid

And once upon a time I would have told you

No I mean I really would have told you

You would have got me through

Il get myself through now 

Sandra


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## aldra

It’s fine now

Never should I ever have engaged with people to the extent I did 

Never should I have ever cared for them for the extent I did 

And never will I again 

We live and learn

Sandra


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## aldra

Well Alberts gone now, bemoaning the fact he can’t have a coffee 

Alex will come back here for breakfast and back to bed

Alex says he didn’t sleep, I recon it’s the shock of getting up at 6 o clock , he says this house is haunted things go bump in the night !!

It’s just a waiting game now, I’m sure all will go well, but I will be so glad when it’s over and I can visit him , I think he’s first on the list but keyhole surgery takes longer than open surgery , so I’m guessing that it’s going to be afternoon before I hear anything 

He’s gone off with a reusable bag, a bit like a refugee, but it will fold down to nothing for storage and locker space is so small in hospitals 

So everything crossed for a good outcome 

He’s laughing at me because I bought him new light weight jeans,tea shirt and casual shirt to go in, why I haven’t a clue , but he looked good in them 

I’m just trying not to worry to much 

When Albert fell last week the hospital sent him home with 1/2 a dozen diazepam as a muscle relaxant he only took them for a day as they made him sleepy,I think I’ll take one myself, and have a bacon butty, its weeks since I last had bacon as we have been on a strict diet, which is fortunate as Alberts lost 2 and a half stone which is good prior to keyhole surgery 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

Sandra, I hope all goes well this morning with Albert's operation.

It's a dreadfully worrying time. At least at the end of today you will have a better idea of what you are facing. 

Thinking of you all.


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## JanHank

I don´t know about it taking longer than open surgery Sandra, but it certainly means a shorter recovery time and not such a long hospital stay.
He'll be on his bike again in next to no time.


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## aldra

It is Jean ,

And they tell you all the things that could go wrong during the op at the pre op meeting 

I know they have too

Just have to remember that most of the time it’s fine 

Sandra


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## aldra

I hope so Jan

The surgeon said keyhole surgery takes longer, perhaps because it’s more precise 

But recovery time is much quicker and he can drive in three weeks , I think with open abdominal surgery it’s 6 for insurance purposes 

Just have to watch him that he doesn’t do any heavy lifting for 6weeks, knowing him he will be wanting to get back to normal , will need to check how soon he can cycle 

It’s the internal stitching of the bowel that needs time to fully heal 

How’s motley doing on his new carpets ?

Young Alberts just arrived on route to college and left his dog, Winston, to keep me company ???

He’s going to stack the logs they cut yesterday into the log store this evening so Albert won’t be tempted to do it when he comes home 

Just waiting for Alex to get up to make him some breakfast then I think I’ll go back to bed for a couple of hours 

No doubt Winston will join me , he is allowed on beds at home, I think he sleeps with young Albert 

Sandra


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## patp

Thinking of you at this stressful time, Sandra.

Many of us have been there. We have all been grateful for the support of others.

The waiting is the worst. A nurse was horrified when I said I was going home during Chris's surgery. It is how we cope.


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## barryd

Hope all goes well today. Im sure Albert will fight this one off with the same strength and determination he has in the past. You can get through this.


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## aldra

The surgeon has just phoned 

Says the op went well, pleased with the results

Says Albert is fine 

Can relax now, my heart thuds every time the phone rings 

Hopefully Albert can phone later, will visit him unless he feels he would just prefer to rest today

Sandra


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## patp

So pleased to hear the good news, Sandra


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## JanHank

Just back from our afternoon walk and pleased to see your post Sandra. :smile2:
You´ll feel even better after you have spoken to him or seen him. 
Now you can unwind the spring.


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## barryd

Well thats great news!! Vino time I reckon. Please pass on our best wishes.


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## aldra

Spoke to him on the phone will go to see him tomorrow 

He’s a bit tired tonight so it’s better he rests 

Apparently they give an epidural anaesthetic as well as a general one

So he has no pain and no feeling in his legs at present, but he’s written up for pain relief tonight as it will have worn off by then 

Can drink tea and has had a bowl of custard 

The surgeon has been to see him and told him much the same as he told me.......he was pleased with the op, it went well

Just a wait now for the path lab report on the lymph nodes that were removed 

Sandra


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## HermanHymer

aldra said:


> I think Viv said that she had beaten it three times
> 
> Don't know if it was a repeat of the same cancer type though
> 
> Sandra


Dearest Albert, trying to compete with me, huh????

No all primaries, all stage one. I've added a Basal Cell Carcinoma to the list since then to make 4. But at least BCC is low risk and doesn't spread.

And look at me... no ascending colon, plus 10 inches of small bowel gone too. With all those bits removed from below the waist, it should be nearly empty down there, but sadly no flat stomach to show for it.:wink2:

Love and prayers to you both.


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## jiwawa

So glad to hear the news Sandra. You can let go a bit tonight.


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## jo662

I have only just seen this thread Sandra. Im sorry to hear your bad news,but so pleased its going well so far.
Take care


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## aldra

He looks so well this evening , but he always does following surgery

He has COPD , but you’d never know it , I guess cycling helps

So he bounces back after anaesthetic , walking the corridors when the physio arrived to get him out of bed 

He’s a bit swollen with wind

But he says that’s to be expected according to the medical profession 

Good so he’s not about to give birth to a 8 pound baby 

He’s tired, not much sleep on the ward 

He’s walking up and down the corridors

They have removed the catheter

People shouting , confused throughout the night ,but no irritation on his part

It is what it is 

And he may be home tomorrow

Then the fun starts

Containing him , no lifting, straining

A bland diet for both of us for a while 

And if this post is all me,me,me

I apologise in advance 

Sandra


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## aldra

HermanHymer said:


> Dearest Albert, trying to compete with me, huh????
> 
> No all primaries, all stage one. I've added a Basal Cell Carcinoma to the list since then to make 4. But at least BCC is low risk and doesn't spread.
> 
> And look at me... no ascending colon, plus 10 inches of small bowel gone too. With all those bits removed from below the waist, it should be nearly empty down there, but sadly no flat stomach to show for it.:wink2:
> 
> Love and prayers to you both.


Unfortunately Viv

In fact none stage one as yet, he likes to come in at a higher level

As yet, I'm expecting more?

Yep knowing him he'll go on

So I'll go on as well

Still waiting to celebrate five years cancer free

Of one of his cancers

Of course with his tract record

The fourth is yet to come

Sandra


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## aldra

Yep he has no ascending rt sided colon and only half a transcending one

They cut so much away in cancer

And I thought it was early diagnosed by the scan , and expected less loss

But the surgeons pleased with the result 

So I guess we should be too

Sandra


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## patp

Glad Albert is making good progress. Now a wait for the results. Stay positive. Remember that he may well have "those" genes which mean he fights off what cancer throws at him.


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## aldra

Waiting to see if he will be discharged today

Apparently he had some abdominal cramping and vomited early this morning, although he has now been to the toilet 

But he is still very bloated but he’s up dressed and walking about he says 

I’m hoping he can come home because he’s getting very little sleep, a couple of very noisy patients on the ward who shout a lot at night 

Just this minute phoned and he can come home, has numbers to ring for advice if needed 

So hopefully a good nights sleep will do him well

Sandra


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## patp

He will be please to be out of hospital, Sandra.


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## HermanHymer

Sandra, so pleased to hear he's home., That's a very good sign. You mentioned he had keyhole surgery - well in theatre they blow you up like the Michelin man to access the innards easily. Let's just hope he doesn't blow you away on its release. (haw,haw,haw.- no smilies on quick reply!!)


Massage helps! Just keep top of mind that he'll manage quite easily without those bits. He won't know they're gone, once his bowel gets used to the new regime. (Did you read the PM I sent?)


Hope you get a good night's sleep too now the worst is over.


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## aldra

Hit and miss Viv

He had an explosion in the night and it wasn’t just wind....nuff said 

Got your PM will answer soon 

Meanwhile washing to be done

Sandra


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## jiwawa

That's great news he's home Sandra. I hope he's a good patient?


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## aldra

Well last night he wasn’t Jean

Still washing and scrubbing mattresses 

But at least there is a passage through 

Bless him he never even knew 

That wasn’t in the discharge notes 

Sandra


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## erneboy

Are you perhaps oversharing by posting that?

I suspect the poor man probably wouldn't like it to be made public? What do you think Sandra? Maybe there's still time to delete it?


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## aldra

Why ?

He’s had much of his bowels cut away earnyboy, less than three days ago 

And many like him will be diagnosed with cancer of the bowel and suffer the same thing 

It’s what it is and no disgrace 

In fact it shows there remains a passage through , and things are working , a little out of control at first 

These things happen after major bowel surgery 

To paupers and kings 

And Albert , well I doubt he feels unmanned by an expected occurrence 

(And who amongst us has not been taken short without the excuse of major bowel surgery ?)

Just grateful that hopefully he’s been cured of cancer 

Cancer throws up all sorts of unexpected results due to drastic treatment and we should all feel able to discuss them without shame or embarrassment 

After all the alternative is death 

Sandra


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## HermanHymer

aldra said:


> Why ?
> 
> He's had much of his bowels cut away earnyboy, less than three days ago
> 
> These things happen after major bowel surgery
> 
> Cancer throws up all sorts of unexpected results due to drastic treatment and we should all feel able to discuss them without shame or embarrassment
> 
> After all the alternative is death
> 
> Sandra


I've posted separately on the effects of SHORT BOWEL SYNDROME for the edification of all who might cross its path. Not an easy thing to deal with and not much information around.


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## HermanHymer

Sandra, a propos my treatise on Short Bowel Syndrome, please be mindful of the effects of your juiced veg/fruit and check how it works for Albert. We're all different and you two will have to find your own regime that works. I'm just saying it would be devastating for my bowel so just to be aware.


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## JanHank

What about sprouts, onions and all other `windy´ stuff Viv? maybe nuts are not good either.


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## aldra

I’m sure long term we will sort it out by introducing foods one at a time 

At the moment my problem is giving him a “ healthy diet “ that is appetising based on strained soup. soft boiled egg ,chicken , fish ,root veg peeled and boiled well and white bread and rice 

The problem is we usually have a seasoned sauce of some type , and I’m not sure what to use to moisten his food 

I thought to roast a chicken with rice for tea , he can have no salad veg but says he’ll try it with a bit of yogurt to moisten it 

There’s not a lot of root veg when it boils down to it ......no pun intended

Obviously he’s not having fruit or veg juice at present , 

We are big veg eaters as a general rule so that’s a no no at present

Sandra


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## HermanHymer

JanHank said:


> What about sprouts, onions and all other `windy´ stuff Viv? maybe nuts are not good either.


They could "ruin the friendship" very quickly. I ration myself - 4 sprouts at a time. Small handful of nuts, but not much of a problem.. All things in small doses. Or buy some Shreddies (look it up) . I don't mean Kelloggs.


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## HermanHymer

aldra said:


> I'm sure long term we will sort it out by introducing foods one at a time
> 
> At the moment my problem is giving him a " healthy diet " that is appetising based on strained soup. soft boiled egg ,chicken , fish ,root veg peeled and boiled well and white bread and rice
> 
> The problem is we usually have a seasoned sauce of some type , and I'm not sure what to use to moisten his food
> 
> We are big veg eaters as a general rule so that's a no no at present
> 
> Sandra


I hate dry food but dobs of butter on mashed potatoes or a splash of olive oil are well tolerated by me.

Jam, custard, rice pudding, mashed potatoes and carrots (together). A weak veg stockpot (not cube) solution thickened with a dash of cornflour. No need to hold back on the salt. Teacakes, crumpets, digestive biscuits. All easy to digest and process.


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## patp

It must be hard because it goes against all the dietary advice we are bombarded with now. When I look at my son in laws diet it fills me with horror because he, with Crohn's disease, cannot eat high fibre food but can eat all the things we are told are bad for us except as occasional treats.


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## aldra

Well it’s almost a week now

So he is trying more foods , or will be and writing it down

I’m not sure if he should have fresh fruit juiced , the fibre is removed only the Vit and minerals remain 

We often juice fresh beetroot, ginger etc and normally eat at least one lemon a day , easily incorporated into juice or just in a glass of water 

We eat a lot of fresh salad and steamed veg of all varieties , drink a lot of freshly made fruit and veg juices 

A whole melon is easily drunk , and cantaloupe is especially good for skin cancer 

I’m convinced that it helps to control his melonoma 

I’m also not sure when he can resume his turmeric 

So I do worry about about his diet 

Sandra


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## aldra

I think today that the path lab results are discussed at the MDT 

I’m hoping that the lymph nodes were clear and that treatment for the bowel cancer is finished with the op

If not it’s chemo I think 

Hopefully we may hear later this afternoon 

I’ve been up since 5am, woke up thinking about it all, still, washing done, everywhere tidied, just need to hoover through when Albert wakes up 

Gosh it’s cold now early morning before the heating comes on

Must remember to drain the van water soon

Thought we might have managed a trip to the lakes to see the colours of Autumn 

Prob / spring now instead as I doubt we will be travelling to a Europe anytime soon 

Sandra


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## patp

Keeping everything crossed for you Sandra.


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## aldra

No phone call

But we will phone on Monday

Appointment at Christies on Monday

So that will cheer us , just a check but they are so lovely

I don’t always go for checks, but I will this time 

They always they ask how I am 

Prob remember my devastation 

When a young intern, leaning on the door, said “well, we do nothing with a melanoma that deep

And you don’t want to spend what time you have in hospital “

But even he did us a favour 

Because I snapped back having researched it ( Albert was shell shocked ) 

Well go back and tell the consultant we do

So what is he going to do about it ?

And he did 

And the rest is history

Sandra


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## aldra

And there is Albert 

Champing at the bit to resume cycling 

I’m saying no you shouldn’t lift that

But wasting my time 

Because lift it he will

But now he’s ensconced in the garage

Working with his beloved wood 

We had a blip, a hot coal fell out and burnt the new rug

It was too small anyway

It looked bigger in the shop 

So now he’s building a fender to prevent it happening again 

He loves working with wood 

Me well it’s fine the insurance paid for it

So I’ve got a bigger one, and moved the smaller one in front of the back settee

£50 excess

Cheap at the price 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

Sorry to hear there's no news Sandra, having got yourself psyched up. And of course it's the weekend....


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## aldra

Well no Jean

I’m married to a fool

You’d never ever imagine this guy had a major bowel op 17 days ago 

He eats everything 

Wants to cycle again

But I’m holding him back

For how long I haven’t a clue 

He’s out in his workshop 

Working on his beloved wood 

Sandra


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## patp

If you are married to a fool then so am I.

It was a nightmare trying to keep Chris away from "doing" things. He was booked in for a triple heart bypass and he was laying a brickweave path just the day before. When challenged he said "but I am only lifting one brick at a time instead of six"!

All we can do is try to instil some sense into them. I kept insisting we "go out for the day" to make him sit down and drive. Not sure, however. that someone awaiting a triple heart bypass should be driving but that is another story.


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## aldra

He just might have been right Pat 

I’m guessing Albert is right 

He knows what he feels

Me I just worry around the edges

Sandra


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## patp

I am not a big worrier about health matters. I just think that we have to do what the experts tell us. 

The consultant was horrified when he found out about Chris's antics. The trouble is that they deal with so many different kinds of people. A high percentage of sick people sit around and do nothing once they have a diagnosis. Others are like Albert and Chris.


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## HermanHymer

My OH was like that too. Symptomatic of that generation?


On the day he was admitted to intensive care he walked the 200m to the gate with the week's garbage and it was the security guard who realised he was in a bad way and called our neighbour. When I got back home, the household chores were 100% up to date.


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## patp

What can we do with them?!

Mind you, when Chris was going through cardiac rehabilitation there were one or two men who were the complete opposite. Would not walk or move much at all. It looked like they had just given up. Not sure which is the most worrying


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## aldra

Results are good

They’ve got it all with clear margins

Lymph nodes are all clear, no need for chemo

He’s eating normally, back on juiced fruit and veg

And back to cycling......reduced miles he says 

Still on anticoagulant injections daily for another 8 days 

So I’m urging him to take care 

Sandra


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## patp

Oh Sandra, that is fantastic news!  Perhaps a little celebration might be in order?


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## barryd

Great news! Told ya he was invincible!!!!

Stop worrying and get the wine out (not yet, give it an hour or two) :lol:

Please pass on my best wishes.


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## aldra

We’re back on 800 cal, Pat, reduced eating window of 8 hrs , juiced veg based juice daily 

Still have to remember melanoma is lurking 

Seen for his check at Christie’s yesterday, still externally clear 

Surgeon very excited about alberts arm, it’s a miracle he says that alberts lymphadeama has reversed 

He’s never seen it happen and is Giving a talk on it

More photos and another scan of new lymphatic pathways for research 

Both hands and wrists the same size now, he can wear shirts with normal width arms , and fasten the cuffs 

We’ve always fasted-on veg juice alone, when cancer is diagnosed and during treatment, don’t know if it helps 

But ........

Sandra


----------



## patp

Amazing!

Right at the beginning of your cancer journey I think we talked about the diet. I read an article, years ago, on a vet who discovered a good treatment for cancer. He had a huge amount of success with it. He ended up treating some people too. 
Alongside the treatment he advised the sort of diet that you are following so I would imagine that word spread and the diet has been tried and tested. The treatment he devised was taken up, I think, by a Hungarian pharmaceutical company and I have never heard any more. It was made up, he said, of readily available compounds and so the big pharma companies could not be persuaded to run trials as there was no money in it for them.


----------



## jiwawa

I'm absolutely delighted to hear that news Sandra!! Definitely cause for celebration - of some kind!


----------



## jiwawa

I'm absolutely delighted to hear that news Sandra!! Definitely cause for celebration - of some kind!


----------



## aldra

The results of Alberts last scan ( Aug) are not that good

They show a hot spot on his spine, needs a different type of scan to check a metastasis in the bone

So it’s back to worrying again Christies will Organise the scan so we we will know better what we are facing this time round

It’s just a wait and see game, alberts pretty down about it as to be expected 

We just Have to hope that early detection will Mean a better outcome 

Sandra


----------



## patp

Oh no  So sorry to hear this, Sandra. At least he is getting checked and, as you say, early detection is key.

I must admit that I had a worry a short while ago and the GP had me straight in for a physical exam and a raft of blood tests. No complaints at all. All was clear except for the bloomin' zinc levels again. Wish I knew what was causing them to be low.


----------



## jiwawa

That is worrying news Sandra. The worry never really goes away but it still hits hard when you have to face it full-on again. I hope Albert gets the further investigation ASAP.


----------



## aldra

I’m sure he will Jean, Christies are very much on the ball

But is very worrying, which of the different cancers he has had has spread to his spine 

I guess we will find out 

Sandra


----------



## raynipper

Oh gosh Sandra. I was about to 'like' your post but it's hardly likeable.

Hurggsssssss.
Ray.
Prue with shingles.


----------



## jiwawa

Poor Prue Ray. I hope she got the medication very early on - I did and it wasn't nearly as severe as my sister's who didn't.


----------



## raynipper

We are not really sure Jean. She said she didn't feel right late last tuesday and it was thursday when the red spots appeared. So doc first thing friday am and meds an hour later.
Maybe too long and now very painful.

Ray.


----------



## jiwawa

I think I had the meds within a few hrs of noticing the rash.


----------



## aldra

We were both ‘ vaccinated ‘ against Shingles along side our flue vaccination 

don’t know how long it is effective for but I’ll ask when the flu vaccination is due

It a nasty painful thing to get , has Pru come into contact with chicken pox?

Now all we need is a vaccination Against Cancer

A bloody strong one in alberts case, so we weren’t third time lucky , although if we counted the operations and radiology he’s had to remove melanoma metastasis we’ve lost count 

He’s down and anxious now as am I , can it be removed, is this the time it can’t be fought?

Will it cause him to loose mobility if it’s in his spine, he’s terrified to become an invalid

But as say don’t worry love it may just kill you Instead 

Sometimes you you need to laugh to hold back the tears

We haven’t said anything to the kids Or friends yet, we will wait for the special scan 

On here well a few friends are good , distant but good

Although a few aren’t that distant maybe

I wish I was strong 

Sandra


----------



## barryd

Sorry to hear of Alberts latest setback. Its been never ending. Must be bloody awful for you both. You really have had some ****ty luck of late.

I think you are stronger than you think Sandra and Albert is just made of iron. Pass on my best wishes to him please and of course to you. You will beat it once again I am sure.


----------



## raynipper

Yes Sandra, now we know I guess we will get vaccinated. And yes our flue jabs will be along next month.
We did meet a friend over 6 weeks ago that had shingles brought on by mountains of stress. But all three of Prue's sisters have had it years ago. So who knows.

Much can be done to treat all cancers now. Just hope Alberts is one of them.

Ray.


----------



## aldra

Yes so do we Ray

We’ve been lucky if you don’t count the numerous operations, the radiotherapy, the anxiety 

The lost holidays, the life put on hold, the appointments 

We’ve been through it so many times, it should get easier shouldn’t it ?

But it doesn’t And hasn’t 

And I don’t want sympathy, it is what it is 

Sandra


----------



## aldra

barryd said:


> Sorry to hear of Alberts latest setback. Its been never ending. Must be bloody awful for you both. You really have had some ****ty luck of late.
> 
> I think you are stronger than you think Sandra and Albert is just made of iron. Pass on my best wishes to him please and of course to you. You will beat it once again I am sure.


Actually Barry, he isn't made of iron, I may be stronger than I think

But the moment I don't think I'm strong

We wish both were in truth

And I understand people wish that was true

It is easier to think that, of course it is, you are on the outside looking in

I'll pass on your wishes of course

And I'm sure I'm being unfair to you my once toy boy

Sandra


----------



## Glandwr

aldra said:


> We were both ' vaccinated ' against Shingles along side our flue vaccination
> 
> don't know how long it is effective for but I'll ask when the flu vaccination is due
> 
> It a nasty painful thing to get , has Pru come into contact with chicken pox?
> 
> Now all we need is a vaccination Against Cancer
> 
> A bloody strong one in alberts case, so we weren't third time lucky , although if we counted the operations and radiology he's had to remove melanoma metastasis we've lost count
> 
> He's down and anxious now as am I , can it be removed, is this the time it can't be fought?
> 
> Will it cause him to loose mobility if it's in his spine, he's terrified to become an invalid
> 
> But as say don't worry love it may just kill you Instead
> 
> Sometimes you you need to laugh to hold back the tears
> 
> We haven't said anything to the kids Or friends yet, we will wait for the special scan
> 
> On here well a few friends are good , distant but good
> 
> Although a few aren't that distant maybe
> 
> I wish I was strong
> 
> Sandra


 Supposedly the jabs for Shingles and Pneumonia are both one offs or so they said when I had them Sandra. They don't mutate like flu does. Give Albert my love and here's a squeeze (or cwtch as we say in Wales) for you :wink2:

Dick


----------



## aldra

Thanks Dick

I’d love a cwfch 

And I’ve passed your love to Albert

Glad the shingles are a one off, surprised that Prue wasn’t offered it

It was given to all elderly here

But maybe our Prue is just a youngster

Sandra


----------



## aldra

I’m angry

Very much me me me

So go for it those who delight in accusing me

Although I doubt they are on this tread

I want to shout why me, why me who may lose my loved one

And then I remember the young ones at Christie’s 

And think

Why not me that has loved, that created a family, a dynasty even,

A life, if it ends well it hasn’t been that bad

Selfish but I can’t envisage a life without Albert 

Maybe that’s something that needs to happen before you know

And maybe it won’t happen, worry is useless 

But nobody told worry that

Sandra


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> Actually Barry, he isn't made of iron, I may be stronger than I think
> 
> But the moment I don't think I'm strong
> 
> We wish both were in truth
> 
> And I understand people wish that was true
> 
> It is easier to think that, of course it is, you are on the outside looking in
> 
> I'll pass on your wishes of course
> 
> And I'm sure I'm being unfair to you my once toy boy
> 
> Sandra


Whaddya Mean!! "Once" Toy boy?  Ave you gorn orf me then?

I cant begin to think what it must have been like what you have both been through so you must both be made of sterner stuff than most.

You are bound to be angry. I would be.


----------



## patp

Don't know if I ever told you this, Sandra, but we met some people on a trip to France and got chatting, as you do. The lady was drinking and behaving as you would if you had lots to drink and her husband told us that she had just been diagnosed with her third lot of cancer. She told us later that her consultant was of the opinion that some people just do not succumb to cancer. He thought it might be a genetic thing. Let's hope that he is right and that Albert has the right genes and that he will not succumb to this latest threat.

Sending love and hugs.


----------



## Gretchibald

Those of us who have or have had cancer understand how you feel Sandra.


----------



## aldra

barryd said:


> Whaddya Mean!! "Once" Toy boy?  Ave you gorn orf me then?
> 
> Not a chance, you will always be gorgeous to me
> 
> I m thinking I'm getting a bit to old to have a toy boy as young as you
> 
> Sandra:kiss:


----------



## aldra

Phone call this morning

MRI scan to be done next Tuesday at Christie’s, so a quick response 

So I guess we will know more after that 

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

That's great news Sandra and a slight lessening of pressure.


----------



## aldra

Yes I know G,

Sometimes angry, sometimes sad, sometimes hopeful 

But we are in the best hands available at Christies 

It’s still an uphill slog tho isn’t it ?

I’m hoping that your treatment is still having positive results 

Sending you hugs 

Sandra


----------



## aldra

I know nothing about cancer in the spine

It’s rare I think 

I’d expect nothing less from him 

But I’m sure Christies will do their best to treat it , they have the experts 

And we are so lucky to be close to them

They have been brilliant, a phone call away, always answered, a close feeling ,not like dialling 111

So we wait till the scan 

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

You're both in my thoughts and prayers. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome. Hang in there. Love to you both.


----------



## aldra

Yep we are hanging in there Viv 

Down, hopeless and hopeful in turns 

Could do with some family support, but don’t want to worry them yet

Instead I worry a few special friends on here and for that I apologise 

I hope the support I’ve tried to give on MHF to those who have found themselves in the same situation will compensate for my need

Sandra


----------



## patp

I am sure the family would rather you told them early, Sandra. I always feel a bit miffed if I hear about health worries when it is almost old news. My eldest brother and his wife never share anything negative in their lives until it is almost all sorted. Part of being a family is the sharing of concerns and worries.

Give Albert my best and keep your pecker up.


----------



## aldra

We will of course once the results of the scan is known

Meanwhile why worry them when we have no real news 

When we do, if there is cause for worry we will share it

If not we will share that too

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Well tomorrow 

I doubt we will get the results 

Alberts really anxious, will it mean a loss of mobility, his knees are crap anyway

Shadow has been clipped, finally we got someone who agreed to clip him

And now we can see how much muscle he’s lost, he’s an old git , but all his long hair has been removed, it can’t get tangled, can’t pull, he looks like a greyhound with a big head

But they have a hydrotherapy pool and he’s booked in, he loves a swim 

So this old git will spend time swimming, twice a week, £14 a time, cheap at the price, and less time walking, and so albert Will spend less time walking him

And should the worst happen someone will be there to help with the hound from hell

Me, well I’m really hoping that Albert will still be by my side

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

My thoughts are with you both Sandra. The lack of knowing is hard.


----------



## JanHank

For 20 days I have hardly looked at any forums so tonight as I am on my own thought I’d see if there was anything going on I aught to know about and came across this thread. Needless to say I was shocked to hear your news about Albert Sandra, I know there is nothing anyone can do to help you stop worrying, but I do know it helps when you can pour it out even if it is only in the written word and know others are thinking of you. The strength you both need to get through whatever is ahead will come from somewhere just as it did in the past.


----------



## aldra

It will Jan as you well know

At the moment Im caught between hopeless and hopeful

Only time can make difference, which should it be

Sandra


----------



## patp

A tough time ahead while you wait. I hope you find the strength to deal with it. At least you know that Albert is in the best hands. 

Swimming is wonderful for dogs. It will give you both a bit if distraction too.


----------



## aldra

Yes his scan today about 10 days to the results

Shadow has been close clipped, a shock, no longer the chunky bear, more a greyhound with a big head

Looks very much like a dragon, he’s lost so much of his muscle, but I’m sure he’s much more comfortable 

now, brushing his long coat was getting too much for him, and he spent a lot of time lying around and matting his coat .

Now so cute, and ready to swim soon , as soon as the pool opens when the partner who joins them in the pool returns from holiday 

£40 Assessment then £14 a session on a ten bargain bundle 

He loves to swim so he may get a couple of sessions a week and save Alberts knees Walking him 

He’s an old guy now, 12 1/2 years old, a good age, marvellous given he only has half his bowels, he seems to have perked up since his clip 

So we wait once again for alberts results, as we have waited so often 

We’ve been lucky so far, so fingers crossed it might be this time

Certainly we have one of the best cancer hospitals on our case

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

Glad the scan itself is over Sandra. 10 days tho - how can you distract yourselves?

What about a trip out in the MH - even for just a day at a time?


----------



## patp

We have come to Kent for a few days and it is a lovely distraction from life's trials and tribulations, so I think Jean has a point. Just a trip to some countryside for a brew with a view might be nice?


----------



## aldra

Well shadow has been the vet

Who is concerned by his weight loss

I’m not, he’s losing muscle , his back legs definitely weaker ,eats well, an old hound which is why we will pay for him to swim 

He’s healthy enough to swim according to the vet

And we will pay for him to enjoy it

Blood test done, a mere £140 

He’s eating well 

I’d be surprised if my hound from hell lives another 6 months when he will be 13

So we will make sure he enjoys the time he has left 

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

That's a grand age for sn Alsation is it not Pat? And as for the suggestion of a ride out in the motorhome, it's a grand idea and you would enjoy it. But to be fair all the loading and unloading wore me out after my recent trip to York. Like Shsdow I'm getting weak in the knees... or was that Albert? (Haha). We're all on a downward trajectory and there's nowt we can do about it? (You see I learnt some Yorkshire while I was there!). As for the White rose-red rose thing I'm so over it!

Well my big lad kept me on the hop. The Dales and Skipton on day 1. Skipton was heaving so we made like Donald and ducked Day 2 Scarborough and Whitby. Also heaving. Drove up to see the Abbey where there was nobody. Day 3 went to Eden Camp. You probably all know it an excellent WWII Museum at an original POWcamp. Also madly busy too many people who just wanted to rush through, jump the socially distancing queue with barely a glance at the exhibits. Day 4 Jorvik Museum, Minster and Shambles. City was fairly quiet everybody gone to Skipton Scarborough and Whitby. And as for social distancing and masks ??? Wtf is covid??? Day 5 - at leisure as they say on the classics. Aka too bleddy pooped to move. Day 6 drove past way home. Stayed overnight st a CMC CL and moho park-up at Bluebell Inn Whaplode St Catherine. All mod cons incl leccy for a fiver. Bonus!! Peaceful!!! Out in the cabbage fields of S. Lincs. Highly recommended! Well now I've stolen Sandra's thread and entertained or at least distracted her for half an hour. I'd better sign off with all my good wishes for the week of waiting.


----------



## aldra

I have told you many times, I don’t have or own any thread 

And there is only so much you can say about cancer

Love that area Viv although prefer it off season, hopefully now the kids are back at school there will be an off season once again. Skipton is a lovely town , Whitby I’ve loved since childhood although it’s a while since I’ve been there, a typical seaside town with cockles and whelk stalls, fish and chips etc....and robin hoods bay, except we used to walk there from Whitby, not much parking there , not much of anything really but a delightful little fishing cove

Yes packing and unpacking the van has lost its shine, and I’m no longer sure that shadow can make the jump into the garage , he’s a bit wonky on the ramp too

Good to hear of your travels, are you off back to South Africa soon or have you sold your house there?

Sandra


----------



## Christine600

Hugs and kisses, Sandra! 



Waiting for results can be exhausting - was for me years ago now. 



:kiss:


----------



## JanHank

It’s a pity they don’t all work the same as my breast cancer man, I have an appointment which involves the mammogram, then I see him, he then makes an ultrasound and tells me what is going on immediately, the only time I have to worry a bit these days is a couple of days before I go when I get a bit anxious. I must make an appointment when I get home, didn’t see him last year and kept away from hospitals this year, but they tell me there are no cases of the Lurgy in the hospitals near me.


----------



## aldra

Well it needed a special scan to check bone cancer

He had it it rapid time, and we wait for the expert who will read it

We’ve waited so many times before 

But these are the experts That have been followed by the surgeons the radiologist 

They have brought him through bowel cancer, prostate cancer, and possibly though melonoma 

That’s an ongoing problem, but as yet he hasn’t needed the oncologist , although they are surprised 

The dermatologist who diagnosed His melonoma , a deep festering mole, greets him with you are still here then and smiles

And he is, many ops later to remove metastasis, he’s still here

And we are holding our breath that this set back will be just that a setback 

And we have Christies, and thousands of people that have fought cancer on our side, that have contributed to the research as Albert has 

So we hope

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Brilliant news

A phone call from Christies, the MRI scan revealed no metastasis, the ‘hot Spot’ was in fact inflammatory Arthritis in the spine 

Relief all round, glad we had said nothing to friends and family, we can breathe safely until the next scan in Feb 

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

I'm absolutely delighted to hear that Sandra - what a huge relief!!


----------



## JanHank

So pleased for you both, what a relief.


----------



## patp

Fantastic news!


----------



## aldra

Well Cancer aside the hound from hell went on his first swimming lesson

We didn’t get in in time and as she grasped his paw to put on his harness he bit her

We felt horrified offered to cancel ,pay and take him away, she refused and continued

He didn’t really enjoy it, but she worked his muscles in the pool

We’ve paid £225 for ten lessons in an attempt to regain some lost muscle

She is confident he will become less stressed and says it was her fault he bit her, he was stressed

So we will take him each week but if I’m honest I don’t see he will regain Much muscle

I think this hound from hell is on his way out

Waiting for results from futher blood test at the vets 

But I’m Not going to get embroiled In further expensive tests, he’s old, seems contented, enjoys his food, reigns supreme in the house 

I’ll miss him when he goes , my hound from hell, As go he must, but missing most of his bowels he should be well gone

I recon he will decide the time and place

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

Did he draw blood or was it just a warning. 

He will tell you in his own way if he really doesn't like it, the first time he just doesn't understand what is going on, why does he need the harness, he can swim, maybe thats the first thing he didn't understand or like, try to think how he thinks.


----------



## aldra

She uses the harness to hold him as he swims, to work the muscles of his back legs

It’s a pool not a lake or sea so limited space

If he doesn’t enjoy it after a few sessions we will call a halt

Yep Jan he drew blood which shocked me, he even nips me if I touch his feet, he hates it, and we didn’t realise in time she would grasp his foot to put it through the harness, she won’t again as we will put the harness on in future, but of course he didn’t know her, first time they had met and he wasn’t relaxed

He has lost a lot of weight, really obvious now he’s been shorn, but he eats well twice a day, of course he always has loose bowels and has since most of his intestines were removed

I may be wrong and of course we will have any check he needs, but I know my hound so well and I think we are slowly saying goodbye, as long as he enjoys his food, his sedate walks, and now his swimming, remains 
in control of me, informs me when he wants to be fed, his water changed, even if I’m having a lie in what time he decides I need to get up We will just continue as normal with him in charge

Sandra


----------



## barryd

Bit sad to hear this news about Shadow. We have a bit of history. I really hope he gets to enjoy the swimming sessions as I remember he used to love the water. Maybe all a bit too much for him the first time. He has surprised you before so maybe he will again.


----------



## patp

As a professional she is right when she says it was her fault. Par for the course when you work with dogs. Why did she not ask if he would be ok if she put the harness on? Lots of dogs have such foibles and some are worse than others. I was lucky - the only one that got me was a Chihuahua  Many others tried but we were ready for them. The Chihuahua's owner insisted on holding him...............

I took Georgia swimming for a trial. The first thing she asked me is "will she be ok if I put a harness on her?" Then we spent the whole time coaxing the little monkey into the pool! She will jump in any old pond or river but a pool?! I think they pick up the "timetable" of being at a pool and it makes them feel the pressure. It is also very echo-ey.


----------



## aldra

I still feel it was our fault Pat, although we couldn't have known what would happen, we did know he was agitated in the totally alien environment 

Next time he will wear a muzzle until he gets to know Stacy and the harness better, we had considered that Albert would put the harness on in future, but have decided it’s probably best she does

Obviously he won’t be wearing it in the pool but then he wasn’t intending to harm her

Did Georgia enjoy the pool Pat, Stacy says he did well for his first lesson, he looked stressed to me, she said she felt he was relaxed under the circumstances 

He slept well last night, zonked out on his memory foam mattress, we bought a thick memory foam topper and cut it in half so he has a double thickness, we thought the memory foam dog beds were To thin to be of much use

His next pool session is on Tuesday, it’s £225 for 10 sessions as theY are “ medical sessions” , hopefully he will begin to enjoy them, if not we will just put it down to a failed experience 

Sandra


----------



## patp

Georgia found the environment too stressful really. As it wasn't a medical need, just a way to exercise her, I did not bother to return.

I would trust your instincts about how much he is enjoying it after a couple of sessions. If they will allow it, you could try putting the harness on outside where he feels a bit more relaxed. The trigger points all stack up sometimes. New environment, new people, new harness, touching feet was the last straw


----------



## aldra

It’s just one person, Stacy Pat

We could of course put the harness on outside but he needs to gell with Stacy 

It’s not a big pool but I guess he could swim freely in it eventually 
I’d love that

Meanwhile he’s swimming to rebuild muscle, constrained by A hand held halter whist she works his back legs

Will it be successful?

Next time I’m not going, I found the whole thing far to stressful from him biting her and him in the pool,Albert will take him 

It was a long way from the hound swimming Freely in the Adriatic Sea 

Sandra


----------



## patp

Not an option, since you have paid for a course, but the excellent hydro centre near me has abolished their pool and fitted a hydrotherapy treadmill instead. They spend the whole of the first free session just making sure the dog is happy to go in it. Once they are relaxed, the dog is coaxed in and the door closed behind them so that the water can be trickled in. Gradually the depth of water is increased until the dog's weight is supported by it but walking through it. The owner is at the front talking to and feeding treats to, the dog. The hydrotherapist adjusts the speed of the treadmill and depth of water as necessary. She studies the stride pattern so that the dog is working the correct muscles etc.

Here is a link to it http://www.meadow-farm.com/

I think they struggled with getting reluctant dogs into their pool and keeping them in it


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> Brilliant news
> 
> A phone call from Christies, the MRI scan revealed no metastasis, the 'hot Spot' was in fact inflammatory Arthritis in the spine
> 
> Relief all round, glad we had said nothing to friends and family, we can breathe safely until the next scan in Feb
> 
> Sandra


Just realised I missed this news in the thread. Excellent. Just need to sort out the hound from hell now then and get him swimming!


----------



## aldra

He’s a brilliant swimmer barry as you know

There have been times when he’s missed the stick we’ve thrown into the sea and he’s headed for horizon, sometimes we worried we wouldn’t see him again 

He swam mostly on our holidays, it needs to be the sea or a crystal lake or river otherwise he stinks, most of the swimming places round here have ducks and although it looks clean the smell on him as he returns no doubt through duck s..., has to be smelt to be believed as it festers in his once long flowing locks

Hope you and Michelle are doing Ok in this lockdown, you sounded a bit down in one of your posts but I guess we all are a bit fed up with this strange way of life 

We are both so relieved that the scan turned out to be OK, I know albert goes for the whole works as far as cancer is concerned but we have been incredibly lucky so far 

Love, Sandra


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> He's a brilliant swimmer barry as you know
> 
> There have been times when he's missed the stick we've thrown into the sea and he's headed for horizon, sometimes we worried we wouldn't see him again
> 
> He swam mostly on our holidays, it needs to be the sea or a crystal lake or river otherwise he stinks, most of the swimming places round here have ducks and although it looks clean the smell on him as he returns no doubt through duck s..., has to be smelt to be believed as it festers in his once long flowing locks
> http://motorhomefruitcakes.freeforums.net/threads/recent
> Hope you and Michelle are doing Ok in this lockdown, you sounded a bit down in one of your posts but I guess we all are a bit fed up with this strange way of life
> 
> We are both so relieved that the scan turned out to be OK, I know albert goes for the whole works as far as cancer is concerned but we have been incredibly lucky so far
> 
> Love, Sandra


Your post reminds me of the time long long ago in another life when me and the "Tall Tales fishing club" were in Ireland on Lough Derg. We had a 32ft motor cruiser. I think I would have been about 19 and of course the first thing we did on our arrival at Gary Kennedy Harbour was to befriend the local schoolgirls who just happend to be windsurfing in the harbour.  I remember James who was our youngest member got away with the windsurfing malarkey first and off he went across the Lough. Lough Derg is massive. Where we were it was about five miles wide and I remember hearing a distant voice shouting "How do I turn round?"  A couple of beers later and once he was over the horizon with said schoolgirls in tow we did eventually cast off to rescue him.

Happy days they were indeed. You are right, I am a bit down at the moment.


----------



## aldra

I think everyone is a bit down Barry, travel curtailed ect

Even for those of us who don’t go out much it’s not the same as not being able to for reasons beyond our control 

Looks like Christmas will be cancelled this year for many so not even that to look forward to, I know you don’t do Christmas, but I think you do celebrate in your own way 

Let’s hope the new year will have some hopeful news on the possibility of a vaccination , and maybe, just maybe I’ll hug my toy boy again 

Sandra


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> I think everyone is a bit down Barry, travel curtailed ect
> 
> Even for those of us who don't go out much it's not the same as not being able to for reasons beyond our control
> 
> Looks like Christmas will be cancelled this year for many so not even that to look forward to, I know you don't do Christmas, but I think you do celebrate in your own way
> 
> Let's hope the new year will have some hopeful news on the possibility of a vaccination , and maybe, just maybe I'll hug my toy boy again
> 
> Sandra


That would be nice. I could use a hug right now.


----------



## raynipper

I bet you can't get yer arms round him now Sandra.:kiss:

Ray.


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## aldra

I like ‘em cuddly Ray, I’ve plenty practise with Albert, he’s put weight on this lockdown , a lot of nibbling and wine Methinks

He certainly isn’t the Only one according to radio programmes, the Covid stone They are calling it, many people outside their normal routine tend to gain weight

Sandra


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## aldra

Well Shadow, he’s eating well, but still losing weight 

He is in fact a shadow if his former self

He seems well in himself and Albert has tried throwing a stick for him, he retrieves it but Albert felt he only did it to please him

We are cancelling his swimming tomorrow, I’m not convinced he’s up to it ,will phone the vet to see if the extra £60 Blood test identified anything As we’ve nothing from them

Disappointed we’ve heard nothing and wondering if it’s because they haven’t got their hands on the sixty pounds, I hope not we have paid them thousands for this hound in addition to the insurance money they have had

Sandra


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## patp

No news is usually a sign of good news. If worrying blood results come through they are usually hot on the phone to get treatment started. The other problem might be that the lab hasn't responded so it might be worth chasing them up.


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## aldra

Well looking at the hound from hell, Pat

I don’t see any good news, he’s fading away , maybe the prognosis following his op years ago that he may just fade away following his loss of bowels is catching up with him in his old age 

But he’s comfortable, not in any pain, enjoys a sedate walk, loves his food interspersed with a bit of people food And recons 10am is earlier enough to rise, has a bladder second to non, and although his bowels often disturb our sleep, he’s always had loose bowels

Sandra


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## patp

That's GSD's for you. Dodgy bowels come with the territory. Looks like it is time to spoil him rotten. Not that he doesn't get spoiled rotten anyway


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## aldra

It’s possible he has Addison disease

We’ve changed vets, we’ve paid £160 for a blood test, plus another £60 for another test on blood already gathered

They now want £170 pounds for a fasting blood test, plus an extra amount for another test + he needs to stay there for a few hours extra cost

It’s added up up to over £500 pounds and we haven’t yet diagnosed the problem 

And to be fair I’m thinking he’s not in pain, he eats well, I feed him people food, COD in milk, Tuna, sardines chicken rice, green beans and carrots 

And he’s losing a lot of weight, and he’s twelve and a half with half his bowels 

Showing no sign of pain, enjoys a sedate walk, enjoys his food and his rest

Should we pay what could be thousands over a short time for this hound from hell

Or should we just accept we all get old and die

Sandra


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## patp

It sounds like they are trying to rule out diabetes if they want fasting blood tests etc.

If it is Addisons disease then it is a horrible disease. I had a Whippet with it. They can go off their legs completely with no notice. I was once half way round our long walk and she just went. Lots of vague symptoms that makeit quite hard to diagnose. We struggled along trying to treat it. She was insured so that made it easier. Her life, however, became miserable and we let her go. As always with these long term illnesses we wish we had done that sooner but it is so hard.


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## aldra

We have a copy of the blood test, not diabetes, “ ?borderline Addison”

We will get a second opinion at the Bolton hospital, should have known about it sooner, all consultations are free 

If I think shadow is suffering then we will let him go quietly and peacefully, 12 and a half Years is not bad for a large german shepherd, I would have been surprised if he reached 13 anyway 

Meanwhile as long as he is content he will see out his twilight years, and as he hasn’t got that long a slice or two of boiled ham goes down well, he is turning into a people food dog for treats, a slice of roast chicken, a small amount of sirloin steak cooked rare beats dog treats hands down in his opinion !

Sandra


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## JanHank

I´m watching the progress, my heart aches for you, but yes do let him go when its the right time, but it sounds as if he is enjoying the different routine.


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## patp

He is a discerning dog with his predilection for the finer things in life


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## aldra

Always has been Pat if he could click his fingers for service he would 

He eats when he says he will eat, let’s me know when to give him breakfast, his snacks his evening meal

Do it without his permission and he sniffs at it in disgust And walks away 

He’s top dog and I am his minion , Albert, him and then me in that order 

But he would give his life to protect me, wether I need it or not ,always has , a hound from hell who has blighted our travels over protecting the van, but he owes us nothing my hound from hell

And I hope we owe him nothing , I’ll miss him of course, but he always was on loan

Don’t worry Jan, time for that when he has to leave, and like Shade he will leave his love and memories behind for us to cherish 

He is now a shadow of his former self, he’s fading slowly, so even now he’s in control and letting us know that soon he will leave us, we are not going into expensive tests, staying for hours at the vets which he hates

What can they do?, extend his life for a few months if that, tests and more tests 

No he will go when he’s ready and I think he will let me know when that time comes, after all he’s let me know about everything else he requires, and I know my place

And it’s definitely below his

Sandra


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## aldra

A clipped bear, heavy bones 

Now he resembles a thin grey hound


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## raynipper

Looks like a cuddly poodle now.

Ray.


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## JanHank

aldra said:


> A clipped bear, heavy bones
> 
> Now he resembles a thin grey hound


Doesn´t that bloke have any shoes, the last picture of Shadow there were bare feet as well.:grin2:

What a lovely face he has, I still miss the looks Shade used to give me.


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## patp

Oh bless him  At least his joints will feel a bit better for carrying a lighter load.


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## aldra

That is the old picture of shadow, I haven’t taken one of the new shadow

He’s just had a full tin of butchers tripe, some grain free all in one mix and I’m cooking three fillets of white fish in milk for his next meal, tonight he will have rice chicken and green beans 

And he looks like he’s being starved

I may take his photo but you will think I’m under feeding him, or maybe that he really was greyhound all the time

Sandra


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## JanHank

Silly question maybe, but is there any chance he might have worms?

Mr.google says Addisons usually affects dogs between 4 and 7 years :-

John August, a veterinarian in the College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences at Texas A&M University. "It generally affects dogs aged four to seven years

You mentioned a slice of ham Sandra, the vet told us not to give Shade anything with pork in it because that was upsetting his stomach so I used to get a whole turkey breast, cook it in the microwave and slice that as his treat instead of the German (Jagdwurst) sausage he normally had as his after our dinner treat.


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## patp

My Whippet was diagnosed with Addisons disease when she about 18 months of age. It got missed by several vets before that as it is called "The great pretender". The symptoms are all very vague. In her case we saw extreme lethargy, absences, lameness with no known cause, diarrhoea. Looking back, the breeder told us that she was always "the quiet one" of the litter so maybe she was born with it. It is more common in middle age but can manifest at any age.

Once diagnosed and stabilised it is quite cheap to treat (or it was). I hear that instead of daily tablets they now inject the drug once per month. Of course there are blood tests fairly regularly which will cost. Our Whippet, luckily, was insured and they covered everything thank goodness.


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## aldra

I don’t know if he has Addisons, the extra test which came back was borderline addisons whatever that means , I assume it’s like borderline type 2 diabetic, not quite yet

Anyway he’s back at the vet on Sunday, the Bolton animal hospital,, as I said all consultations are free 

The ham doesnt seem to upset him Jan and he only wheedles it when I’m making a ham sandwich, I make him one, squash the bread and he still removes the ham and leaves the bread!!!

I’ve started to roast chicken thighs and give him those as a treat between meals, not that there is much between meals time now, he’s still loose but always has been and he seems alert and contented so I feed him on demand more or less and will continue that regime as long as he seems ok on it and the vet agrees

I casserole his chicken with veg and use the broth strained of fat to cook his rice for his evening meal, but thought a roast chicken Thigh would be good as a snack 

Anything to keep some weight on him, I’ll speak to vet about probiotics to add to his diet 

Sandra


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## aldra

Tomorrow he sees the vet

I think he’s put on a bit of weight, clipped it’s easier to monitor his condition 

He eats non stop , loving people food, fish and rice, tonight slow cooked turkey Leg , veg and rice

I think his shortage of bowels is catching up with him, we’ve payed £2OO for blood tests And found little

Suggested we pay another £300 for further tests, fasting tests which if I’m honest they could have Waited before before before doing the £200 non fasting tests

It could go on for ever, he’s enjoying his life, his head unclipped shining, his back legs loosing muscle but still functioning 

We could spend a fortune and find nothing but old age 

Sandra


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## patp

The blood tests might, on the other hand, give you a diagnosis followed by a treatment. If they show old age only, then at least you will know. I always think that it is better to know. We once spent £4,000 on our lame dog. It turned out she had torn a shoulder ligament and a £50 steroid injections combined with rest sorted her out. How was anyone supposed to know that, though, before all the x rays and MRI scans? I swore, after her, that I would never have another uninsured dog.
Well, actually, I did manage to find an insurance company that, at the age of nine, would cover her. Well most of her because they excluded the bad leg which never troubled her again. She cost them another £4,000 when she developed thyroid deficiency except it took ages to get to testing her thyroid. She had no obvious symptoms of a deficiency. The only thing she had was a non healing sore between her toes. Otherwise she looked and acted like a two year old. The thyroid deficiency was caused by a tumour on her adrenal gland.


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## aldra

The trouble is pat prices are becoming ridiculous precisely because of insurance 

When Odin developed heart disease in old age his medication was £50 a month, a friend a pharmacists checked the tablets £2.50 a month from him

Shadow has been insured all his life with payments and excess going up and The amount of cover going down over £200 a month for £4000 cover and over a £100 excess, and no one wants to take on an elderly dog so we were stuck with high payments or cancel. 

He’s going back for an ultra sound and pancreas test on Wednesday, so they need to sedate him 
I don’t mind the cost as long as we know what it’s for

I took a copy of the blood test which she said Told us very little, £200 of very little 

At least today’s consultation and check was free, it’s a not for profit organisation, so we will see how he goes 

Sandra


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## patp

The trouble is that vets' overheads are enormous. They have to recoup the cost of buying and installing x ray machines, operating theatres, ultrasound equipment, sterilising equipment etc etc. Staffing with professionals who all need cpd and often go off on maternity leave is also a huge dent in the finances. They have to keep very expensive drugs on the shelves "just in case" a dog comes in that might need them. They then go out of date and have to be dumped.

The last practice I worked for only just broke even. The one before that couldn't make a profit so they sold out to one of the large multi practice guys, CPS, who are just in it for the money. I only go to independent vets now but I am on tenterhooks because, Marcus, my old boss, is getting near retirement age so may decide to sell out to the big guys  You won't see "CPS" over the door though. They like to hide the fact that they are quoted on the Stock Exchange.

It is a sad fact of life that insurance is here to stay. My 3 year old, Working Cocker Spaniel, costs me £43.48 per month for £12,000 of lifetime cover with Pet Plan. I have had no claims and they are regarded as a healthy breed which was a major factor when I was looking at which breed to buy this time. Cross breeds are usually cheaper too. My nine year old Lurcher was around the same premium with Tesco (the only one that would accept her at that age).

I happen to know that if the vet is aware that the dog is not insured they try their hardest to keep costs to a minimum but it is their job to make the animal in front of them as comfortable as possible. It is what they trained all those years for. Talking of which I once asked a, newly qualified, vet what her salary was and we broke it down to an hourly rate for all the hours she had worked that month. It came to less than the minimum wage


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## aldra

Yes the vet weNormally use is a multi practise, they are good but expensive 

If you go for a booster jab there is a consultation fee, a check up fee and the booster jab cost, it just mounts up every visit

Your insurance cost is not bad , I think shadow used to be that but the last quote £225 for £4000 we were actually only covered for £1300 and our excess was £125, and we haven’t claimed in several years

We decided the maximum we could lose if he became sick in any year was around £1000, if didn’t become sick we had saved £2700, I guess the insurance had worked that out too

Anyway we will see what Wednesdays test shows 

Sandra


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## JanHank

Isn´t there a risk in having such an old dog sedated?


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## aldra

I don’t think so Jan, it’s just a relaxant not an anaesthetic, they want to check his abdomen where his bowels were removed to ensure all is well, she palpated him today but he was very tense as he’s always a bit anxious at the vets so difficult to feel the area through tensed muscle 

I’m happy to have an ultrasound, I always worry that maybe something has gone wrong in that area, if all’s well then we can tick that off as not being the cause of his weight loss and also a reassurance that there is no problem there

As it’s a fasting test there should be some intestinal movement they can monitor 

Everyone said how lovely he is, such a beautiful face and eyes, I’m happy he’s trimmed to his undercoat so it’s easier to monitor his weight loss. We halted his water exercise and this vet feels she wants to check him on the ultrasound before he goes again , she thinks aqua therapy could help maintain his muscle but only if he’s physically well enough 

So we will see what the pancreas test and ultra sound reveals 

Sandra


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## JanHank

When did vets start working on Sundays ? I thought you had made a mistake yesterday when you said he was going tomorrow, meaning today.


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## aldra

Well these vets do Jan

And the cost was nothing 

But you are right at our normal vet. It’s an extra charge

When Ben our last German Shepherd has a twisted bowel, he had already lost the use of his back legs

It was an emergency, £100 because it was a Sunday , extra because it was an emergency plus the fee to put him out of his misery

Gladly paid, the insurance paid part we paid the rest

And returned bereaved without him 

Sandra


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## aldra

Well he’s off to the vets for an ultrasound and blood tests 

Ive asked albert to ask them to check his teeth whilst he’s sedated, just to be sure there is no problem there, I’ve worried since one became loose and fell out but that could well have been a stick as he was given to dragging enormous logs out of the undergrowth and presenting them for us to throw for him to retrieve 

It’s strangely quite without him and they will ring when it’s time to collect him, alberts late getting back his appointment was 8.15am so I’m hoping all’s well

Sandra


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## aldra

Well he's back, still under sedation, and we are £364 poorer for the vet to tell us he’s in good General health, but no reason as to why he is loosing weight , it’s not the diet, I now feed him three times a day, one tin of dog food, two full fillets of white fish cooked in milk and rice , rice chicken and veg And he is eating well with enthusiasm 


The medication alone cost £70 , a weeks supply of probiotics and paracetamol tablets to sooth the inflammation in his gut , will he need that every week ?

I’m already looking on line for probiotics 

He might be in “ good health “ but why has he lost a quarter of his body weight ?

So far we’ve paid £634 , when I find out the secret I’ll apply it Albert and myself we could both benefit to loose a quarter of our weight 

Sandra


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## patp

If you use Facebook, Sandra, there is a group called Sports Dog Nutrition. I know he is not a sports dog but they are so knowledgeable and they will help with any dietary problem. 

When I asked the vet about weight gain for a new rescue dog, once, he told me to feed some sort of oil like olive oil or vegetable oil. Not sure Shadow will tolerate oil though? It is not a common problem these days  
Georgia is always a bit on the thin side and I phoned Millies Wolfheart dog food nutritionist for advice. She advised their "working" dog food and it has done the trick. I think it contains more protein and fat than normal food. If I fed her too much in quantity of normal food she would poo for England!

If he is thin and happy he is probably better off being on the lean side. We are so used to seeing overweight dogs that a lean dog makes us think it is thin when they are really ok.


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## patp

Have you factored in how much his hair weighed when you say he has lost a quarter of his weight?


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## JanHank

patp said:


> Have you factored in how much his hair weighed when you say he has lost a quarter of his weight?


I doubt very much if his lost fur amounted to more than a few pounds, not a quarter of his original weight.


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## aldra

No, but some of his weight loss is clearly muscle, very noticeable on his back legs

Which is one reason I had him clipped so I could monitor it, and not harass him with brushing a long coat prone to knotting 

He’s clearly miserable tonight , hasn’t drunk any water since he returned 

Which is why I was concerned about the tests, he was well, losing weight, eating well and obviously happy 

I don’t want him on a never ending regime of tests when I suspect it’s old age

But you worry that you may be wrong and pay for never ending investigations which so far have highlighted nothing and made him miserable 

He’s eaten nothing today so that’s one of his pleasures lost to him

Hopefully tomorrow he will be more like himself 

Will all these investigations prolong his life, will he fade away and if so why are they not finding any reason??

He’s in good health the vet said, so he should be the care he is given, But he was bright and enjoying life £650 ago, loosing weight it’s true, but he still is I guess 

He went for a booster jab not costed in the £650 , loosing weight, a 12 1/2 year old German shepherd, and its cost a lot of money to find out nothing and make him miserable

I don’t think he will forgive me for a few days, he just stares but won’t come near Me, I’ve let him down

Sandra


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## JanHank

It will take some time for the sedation to wear off, I don´t suppose he is seeing properly yet. 

Why not just enjoy him, let him enjoy what he likes best and let nature take its course.
Probably loosing muscle because he isn´t getting the exercise he used to have.

Don´t give him anything with pork in.


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## aldra

I don’t Jan, rarely a slice of boiled ham

He’s not going to eat today, he’s not going to let me comfort him 

He walks each day he’s not interested in running

I’m not even sure the aqua aerobics are beneficial he didn’t seem to enjoy It 

We’ve found another bigger pool which we might try where he can swim freely if he wants to and Albert can walk along side him and throw something he can retrieve

Of course we would want to let nature take its course, but of course we worry if we are short changing him
Could some treatment help ?

It’s hard to go on instinct, a hound from hell I know so well, but just maybe I don’t 

Sandra


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## aldra

I’m up since 4 am, really upset and angry with Albert

Shadow wears a head halter and when he goes to the vet we put a muzzle on him as he’s edgy around vets

The last time he went I went and Albert went to put the muzzle on top of his head halter and I said you can’t do that Albert,it needs to under the head halter Or it’s too tight 

I assumed this time he would have removed the head halter and left the muzzle for the vet to sort once he settled in

When he arrived back his muzzle was over his head halter and when removed he had the clear pressure marks of halter and muzzle and damp with sweat, I asked did you put the muzzle on top of his halter when you dropped him off this morning? and he had

Did you ask if they had checked his teeth? He hadn’t asked

I suspect he was left all day with a head halter and muzzle which would mean he could not drink very well if at all and I’m worried that he was sedated in that condition 

He’s eaten nothing since he returned and hardly drank , in the night i was conscious that he seemed to constantly clearing his throat and I couldn’t sleep because I was worried about him 

I am going to phone this morning to find out but I doubt they will admit it anyway, but I like to know if anyone did check his teeth whilst he was under sedation, it was written in his notes, and they certainly couldn’t with the muzzle on

Albert dropped him off at 8.30 am , he was still dopey at 4.30, did they leave that muzzle and head halter on all day?

He didn’t come downstairs with me this morning which is unusual and he didn’t drink during the night 

No wonder he was miserable all evening and night, I’ll see how he is when he finally gets up but I don’t think he’s very well 

Sandra


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## JanHank

What if you put a bit of milk in his water, not much just enough to colour it and make it smell of milk, every shepherd we`ve had loved milk.

Sedating old dogs is always dodgy vets have told us, it may take sometime for the drug to leave his system especially as he doesn´t move as much as he used to, walk him round the garden and get a bit of fresh air in his lungs might help.
I think when Shade was sedated to remove hair from his ears it took a day or two for him to come back to normal, he was almost 11 years old then.


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## patp

Sedation, especially in a dog with little fat or muscle, can take a while to wear off. The way his looking at you is much more likely to be due to sedation than any blame his putting on you.

At least you are doing your best for him Sandra. We should not really put anything down to old age until we are sure that is what it is. So many dogs have a miserable, painful, old age due to people dismissing worrying symptoms. All my family criticised me for the ongoing tests on my old lurcher. She just had a non healing sore on her toe. It made her unhappy. It killed my back as I had to keep dressing it. As I have said earlier, it was due to low thyroid levels which, in turn, was due to a tumour on her adrenal gland. All the vets were puzzled by the sore toe and I ended up having to take her to the Clinical Director of the practice before I got answers. Trust your instincts.


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## aldra

He’s up Jan, has had some mash potato ,a little liver and a chicken sausage

And a drink, he loves lambs liver but I don’t let him have much because I think it might be heavy on his digestion , I have thought to try him with minced raw liver because I think it would be good for him but again I’m not sure 

I’ve calmed down a bit now and I might buy some goats milk later because that’s much easier to digest than cows milk Although I do poach his fish in cows milk 

I’ll see how he goes on today but I am going to phone the vets later 

Sandra


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## JanHank

That’s good, but if he is drinking now there’s no need to tempt him with milk and I was only talking about a couple of table spoons not a pint 😁. Try not to be over worried, he will detect that and think he shoul also be worried, especially with the relationship you seem to have with him.

The rest of your worry with the muzzle etc. he will probably not have any recollection of, try to put it out of your mind.


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## JanHank

A little story about goats milk and one of our dogs who was in a road accident and had teeth broken as well as a few other injuries.
He could only manage to lick so everything was ground up and made into a soup. The people in the field behind us had a nanny goat, she never had a kid, but suddenly started producing milk. When they heard about Reece, each morning we would find a container full of goats milk at the back door, they didn't like the milk so gave it to us for Reece and we were sure it helped with his recovery.


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## aldra

Yes I heard it good for dogs, it’s also excellent for lactose intolerant babies

I’m roasting fresh chicken as we speak, I’ve thrown away yesterday chicken And rice, he wasn’t able to eat it, I’m feeding him frequently but he’s getting very fussy But enjoyed his fish cooked in milk 

I Think he fancies a turkey dinner tonight, a jacket potato with butter, carrots with green beans, sprouts and pigs in blankets

Well he can get lost, he will have chicken ,rice and green beans 

The turkey dinner is ours

I might slip him a slice of turkey

If he’s fading away he intends to fade with a bang 

He looks such a mess, they have shaved his stomach for the ultra sound 

He’s been for a walk with a coat on, he must feel the cold, but he enjoyed his outing 


Sandra


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## jiwawa

aldra said:


> Yes I heard it good for dogs, it's also excellent for lactose intolerant babies
> 
> Sandra


Apparently, but very hard to get in the centre of Edinburgh after the war! My poor mother had to pound the streets for hours and I existed on tomato juice and glucose. Well, I very nearly didn't exist but you wouldn't think it to look at me now!


----------



## aldra

Well phoned today and asked for a copy of the blood tests

I’m not sure what they mean but I’ve payed for them and want them

I’m hoping they are not a repeat of the blood tests he already had, but I’ll compare them

He says on one test, an extra £60 they might have diagnosed the problem, but without our phone call I’m wondering if we would have found out 

Anyway he’s left the tablets and we collect them tomorrow, he is deficient in a vitamin / mineral although I couldn’t understand which 

I wanted to know why we are giving him paracetamol and how long for?

The probiotic seem to be easing his loose bowels but at almost£60 a week is not sustainable so asked for a cheaper alternative 

So we wait ......again 

Sandra


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## patp

You will almost certainly get the pro biotic cheaper on line, Sandra. Vets cannot compete with these big companies with their Amazon style warehouses.

On the subject of goats - we kept them for years. It all started when we had horses. Goats and horses eat virtually the same things and one needed a good home so we took Narnia home with us. She produced a small amount of milk having had a kid several years ago. We then got another goat and bred her which meant we had lots more milk and two kids. Kid meat is lovely. It is like lamb when it is young but gets a bit gamier as it matures. I am sure many will have had it abroad. Once we had the room we started to board goats as you cannot just go on holiday and leave a milking goat with the lady next door. At one time I remember we had nine to milk twice a day. With that came gallons of goats milk. In order to sell it you have to have stainless steel equipment etc so we got some weaner pigs and fed them gallons of goats milk. 

Our daughter was brought up on raw (unpasteurised) goats milk and never had a days illness. When I say raw there were times when the goat would put its foot in the bucket and I would just strain it through fine muslin and we would drink it with no ill effects whatsoever. Our dogs all had it and we reared a litter of German Shepherd puppies on it too. We kept one of the puppies, Otto, and he was a really healthy dog throughout his life.

Goats are amazing hedge trimmers and the whole of our four acres was surrounded by hedges with more hedges dividing it into three paddocks. We never had to cut a hedge and we did miss them when they went.


----------



## raynipper

Our neighbour here had a goat tied to a stake in the middle of their 1000 sq.m. of land. The goat ate all the things it liked and left great tufts of things it didn't. So he still had to mow now and again. 

Ray.


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## patp

They are not grass eaters, Ray. They will eat thistles, and roses and runner beans and whatever else takes their fancy but grass would be their last choice. Of course, when tethered, they pee and poo on the grass so that then becomes a no go area anyway. They have a bad reputation for escaping and it is true but there is usually a good reason and one of them is not enough roughage to eat. It is why they have a reputation for eating the washing


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## aldra

Well a wasted journey the tablets were not ready 

They say they usually text when the prescription is ready, wished they had said that yesterday, it’s over an hour’s journey there and back + waiting to see someone :frown2:

Sandra


----------



## patp




----------



## aldra

Well, today we got an appointment following a phone call

Apparently we were wrongly informed that we needed to go on line

I printed out a list of questions and he answered them all

He’s now on a Vit B12 supplement which apparently he has not been able to absorb, lack off causes weight and muscle loss

I was concerned that if he couldn’t absorb it from food could he absorb it from tablets ?

It’s absorbed through the small intestine I found

The vet says he will absorb it from his stomach before it reaches his small intestine 

So we will see 

The hound from hell may Well be with us longer, I’ve upped his food to three meals a day, fresh cooked fish and rice for dinner added to breakfast and evening meal

I think he could get used to this for life 

Sandra


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## HermanHymer

Have just read through the Shadow saga! Vit b12 deficiency can cause many problems. I have it too for the same reason as Shadow. Missing bits. The tabs are really expensive and if one is not absorbing it, really a waste of money. The best solution is a jab but they are soooo painful but a lot cheaper. I'm using patches now until I pluck up the courage to go for a jab. I havent noticed any weight loss. 🤔 Hope Shadow improves. He's such an intelligent dog!


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## aldra

He’s not gaining weight Viv

He’s a shadow of his former self

But enjoys his food, his walks 

His bowels are poor

So I’m not sure the vit B 12 is helping, I don’t think he’s gaining any weight

He’s getting old for a German shepherd

But he seems to enjoying his life such as it is, isn’t in any pain

Owes us nothing when it’s time for him to go

But not yet he says, I’ll let you know when

Sandra


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## aldra

Still losing weight

Possibly has pancreatitis, maybe samples could be taken?

Well no they can’t , he’s still losing weight , still eating what he wants to eat, refusing what he doesn’t fancy

Completely spoiled 

At the moment chicken breast and rice with the odd tin of butchers tripe, salmon and smoked haddock , he loves smoked haddock

Trying to keep him low fat 

He’s enjoying his life, his quiet walks , his long nights sleep on his memory foam mattress , the food he enjoys

I asked the vet can you keep him alive with your tests?

Will he live beyond 13, 6 months from now 

Because if you can’t and he’s not in pain I don’t want any invasive investigations

I’ve kept this hound alive for 12/12 years with half his bowels missing and I recon between us we will manage another six months

When he’s ready to go we will both know, meanwhile he’s losing weight , I don’t know how to prevent that, I’m not sure the vet knows either

The moment he tells me he is in pain for whatever reason we will say goodbye 

As I’ve said he owes me nothing, and I hope he feels I owe him nothing either 

My beautiful hound from hell 

Sandra


----------



## patp

Fat is one of the things that puts weight on dogs, or any animal. He will struggle to keep weight on if he is has to be on a low fat diet.

There is a Facebook self help group run by a human nurse who is really knowledgeable about nutrition - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2341185262818548

You can just post and get good general advice or you can book an online appointment with Holly to discuss a special diet designed for your dog by her. She will want to know the test results if you do that.

Try not to worry. Dogs very quickly pick up on anxiety and they internalise it causing them to have a low appetite. It may help if you mention all the human health ailments to the group as they are into herbs and may know of some that might help him relax. Shepherds are such sensitive souls.


----------



## aldra

I am managing to keep him on about 1600 cal, a bit less than he needs but not much

He’s now on chicken breast , rice, and butchers tripe 2 tins a day , fed over 3/4 meals a day 

He will not consistently eat the same thing , he gets bored and needs variety, the tinned food gives him the additives he needs, I’ll increase it as he seems fit 

The vet said not to give him tinned food, give him chicken and rice but not every day, maybe alternate days 

But made no suggestion what he should have on the alternative days, he did suggest a couple of dried foods then said not to bother its expensive and won’t help, and shadow is not a fan of dried food 

I’ve cut out veg for the time being , may introduce it back slowly, I judge his diet by how loose his bowels are, always have done and kept him at 50k for years , he’s now dropped to 38k and I think his lack of bowels is catching him up now, he doesn’t have enough to process his food properly 

By rights it should have reduced his life span so he’s done well to reach 12and a half , he’s seems in good spirits so I think I’ll just trust myself and be guided by him, ive always had him on a lowish fat diet anyway so I’ve switched from chicken thighs to steamed breast and give him a multivitamin B tablet daily, he’s been on white rice for a while as it’s easier to digest so we will let nature take its course, I’m not having him stressed by biopsies at his age at least the vet agreed with that, I’ll keep up the steamed fish as that I’m sure is good for him and he enjoys it , not sure about fresh smoked haddock though seems a bit salty but he disagrees 

He likes it with an occasional poached egg, as I do I:grin2:

Sandra


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## patp

From reading that forum, eggs are good and can be given raw with shells on but not, perhaps in Shadow's case. 
Another high protein low fat source is cottage cheese. They also say that raw fat is much better than cooked fat for dogs. Tinned oily fish is good. 
For a tinned food Holly recommends one called Rocco. The meat content is, apparently, very high. Then there is good old tinned Chappie which is a complete food in a tin so no need to add anything. I remember a referral vet recommending Chappie for my very poorly Whippet. Most dogs love it.


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## aldra

Butchers tripe is expensive , up to 75p a tin , a good mix with a high percentage of offal which is good, it’s complete he needs 4/5 tins a day, but that’s a bit much for him, he gets bored, no added cereal 100% meat 

I add the cereal in the way of rice

Eggs, careful of fat content of yolks but whites alone can cause deficiency in other areas 

Shells can be grated in a coffee grinder and added to complete home cooked meals for calcium 

So he will have for his tea 8 ounces of breast,200 grams of butchers and 7 ounces of rice 

And he’s demolished it 

I’ll give him a supper

He won’t die hungry

He loves his food as long as he has variety , if not he’s first to tell me I’m a people dog, like you I want variety 

And he will get us up in the night to go outside, he always does

Because given his problem he has too, his appetite is fine but he is still losing weight 

But I can do no more than I’m doing

He’s happy but fading away and I don’t know how to stop it

But then again neither does the vet

Sandra


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## aldra

Three bad days for me more than him

He has hardly eaten anything in the last three days, day one nothing 

Yesterday a little chicken hand fed

Today refused everything 

Except in desperation I cut up a Milky Way bar, not a great deal of chocolate covering a mouse filling

And having had a couple or so of thin slices he brightened up and decided he would have a couple of small tins of tuna, a quick play with a ball , a short walk 

He’s not eating enough to sustain him, we know that

It’s countdown time for my hound from hell, I’m not allowing any invasive treatments, I really don’t believe that can prolong his life

Maybe a Milky Way can

Sandra


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## jiwawa

It's distressing for you Sandra. But as long as Shadow isn't suffering and is continuing to enjoy your company (albeit in a more sedate way) then I think you just have to be happy alongside him.


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## patp

It may be that he feels really sick. That will cause loss of appetite. Unfortunately they cannot tell us how they feel except in change of behaviour. In the wild he would surely die. Might be time to listen to nature?


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## JanHank

Only you can choose now and I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes.


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## aldra

He had half a tin of corned beef at supper time, would have eaten the whole tin if I’d l had let him, but I don’t think it’s very good for him in large quantities

Going to try small tasty meals four or five times a day 

Doesn’t seem as though he feels sick, certainly polished off a couple of slices of Milky Way with gusto

Steaming him some smoked haddock for breakfast, that’s what we are having topped with a poached egg and mustard sauce , so it won’t be wasted if he refuses to try a little hand fed

He does enjoy hand feeding at the moment and it gives me contact with him as most of the time he’s lying on the floor snoozing , unfortunately too low for me 

If he was little I’d lift him onto the settee or bed, but he can no longer jump up although with a little run he can still make the back of the estate car for his walk in the cemetery 

We will see how he goes on , I don’t think he’s in pain and he seems brighter this morning

Sandra


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## Penquin

Little and often is obviously what he needs at the moment, it is sad, although inevitable to read of his decline from the bouncy HfH that terrorised the concrete lorry, simply by being there and using his voice.

He deserves as much attention as you can give him, he has given you that attention throughout the years, so repaying a little seems fair.

Please DON'T try and lift him - you have enough problems without adding a slipped disc or three.... he is not, and has not been for many years, the sort of dog you could carry around - neither would he enjoy being carried.

Please give him an extra hug from all three of us - one of whom owes his presence to Shadow's beguiling nature. HfH, possibly when in the MH, HIS MH, but a dog with real character at all times, and of course, a friend and supporter of both of you and your family.


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## JanHank

I have been thinking of you while I was grooming Motley and it passed through my mind to say, don´t leave it too late because that is how you will remember him for months.


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## patp

And there is always my mantra to consider - Better a day too soon than a day too late.

The pain is something you have to go through whether it is sooner or later.


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## aldra

I’m pretty sure he is not in pain 

He had his and my smoked haddock for breakfast , the rest of the corn beef mid morning,three chicken thighs, very lightly cooked and eaten warm for lunch and has gone for a short walk with his new coat on 

Because his long hair has been cut off and he’s very thin we didn’t want him to feel cold outside , he’s quite taken with it 

I wonder if things now taste different to him, he won’t have any chicken mixed with rice, he now prefers it lightly roasted , will not eat his usual butchers tripe, seems to prefer stronger tasting food 

At least he is eating again now not enough to gain any weight, but he wasn’t gaining weight anyway, seems content, does sleep more than usual but his eyes are bright 

I’m pretty sure I’ll know when it’s time, I worry if he doesn’t eat, but we know each other very well my hound from hell and I

Albert is sleeping in a separate bedroom at the moment because of his snoring so Shadow will not sleep in either bedroom but sleeps on the landing between us, maybe he’s finding that strange, we leave the doors open so he can wander into either room if he needs a drink or wants to go out in the night . He can still get up the stairs, if he can’t then one of us will sleep downstairs with him 

Our vet is 24 hours so if he does deteriorate quickly we have a vet at hand any time day or night 

Sandra


Sandra


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## patp

Could well be the different sleeping arrangements, Sandra. Dogs are creatures of habit and once they settle on a routine it can throw them off kilter when it changes. Any form of anxiety affects appetite. It is a survival instinct not to eat if the brain is anxious. The body needs to react with speed and a full stomach is not conducive to fight/flight.

I will remember the Milky Bar trick because, if you can get an anxious dog to eat, the brain is tricked into thinking that it is not anxious because eating is taking place


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## aldra

Yes, but remember the weight of the dog, he is skinny at 34 kg

Should be 50kg 

Chocolate can be really dangerous for dogs in direct proportion to size and weight 

Best never fed, milk safer than dark

But he loves a bit of chocolate and now seems a good time to feed it to him 

Only a small bit to titillate his sense buds, to give him pleasure 

Me, I’m weird chocolate does nothing for me, I can’t understand why people love it

But shadow definitely does, at 50kg not a problem in small amounts, now even smaller amounts, like most people he loves it, and he’s loved it for 12/1/2 years

With grandkids he’s probably had more than he should, the odd biscuit held too low, deliberate feeding of the last bit of chocolate biscuit , and stolen biscuits , although I suspect some of those stolen biscuits were only half biscuits, worth another in replacement>

But now?

A bit of chocolate gives him immense pleasure 

But still care is needed, prob best never, but hey so many things are prob best never:grin2:

Sandra


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## aldra

A full chicken beast and a bit of our battered cod for supper

No problem in eating that

This hound is not yet ready to die

This morning three chicken thighs, and some fish for dinner 

Tonight he will have a breast of the roast chicken

I’m hoping he will start to have a little carbohydrate, and some dog food which has the necessary additives, if necessary Ill mix a little corned beef with it 

Until then at least he is eating, sleeping and resting a lot, but content and not in pain, enjoying a short walk

Short because he and Albert are a matching pair, Alberts knees are rubbish, but he drives to the park or cemetery and walks slowly, and as yet shadow can jump into the estate care

He is still dropping weight, but whatever the reason I see no point in invasive investigations 

He’s on medication for low B12, had ultra sound, blood tests nothing conclusive found,

If he was younger we would go further, but at his age why?

If they find anything by invasive investigation I doubt they can extend his life much beyond his life expectancy now

Jan I’m sure you found that with shade, there is a time to live and a time to die

At the moment he is living, for how long I have no idea 

But I’m sure he will let me know when he wants to go

And I will let him go in peace 

And wonder what I will do with my life that is not organised by his demands

He should never have been allowed to be the Alfa Mayo in my life , but he was, an interesting relationship where he stares at me until I understand what he wants , and make no mistake , it’s what he wants and eventually I understand

He eats when he tells me he will eat , not before , sometimes 10 minutes after I offered it 

But he loves and would protect me with his life 

Gosh how I will miss him my hound from hell

Sandra


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## aldra

He’s eaten today

3/4 of a tin of corned beef

I know that’s not best for him but it ramps up calories , and he loves it

2 chicken breasts and a small amount of rice at 4pm 

I’m using ready bags of rice because he eats so little of it

I’ll give him another breast for supper, with a little rice 

No way can I keep the weight on this hound from hell

It’s day to day of what he fancies to eat

And of course I’m slowly loosing him

But he is in control of that too 

There is nothing more I can do except ensure he is not in pain, eats what he fancies , when he wants it

An slip a little chocolate into the mix

He seems contented with the regime, a short walk, lots of rest 

He mirrors me

Sandra


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## patp

What's wrong with corned beef? Obviously not as a continuous diet but every now and then should be ok. If you look into what we should and shouldn't feed our dogs they now say that rice is not digested and, of course, wheat has been off the menu for a long while. Even chicken is frowned upon by the purists. They prefer turkey or duck.
Does he like tinned fish? Then there are eggs? Cottage cheese? A vet recommended that to me when my dog stopped eating chicken and rice.

Another behaviour thing linked to eating is that if they have been sick after eating a certain food a survival mechanism creeps in and they refuse to eat it again. So, sometimes it is not that he doesn't fancy it but because he remembers being sick after eating it. Happened to me once when I saw tomatoes for the second time. Could not touch them for ages!


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## aldra

If he makes it to Christmas he should be OK then Pat , I too prefer duck !!!

Plenty of turkey then !

He doesn’t seem keen on eggs, used to eat them when he was younger , I don’t tend to give him dairy 

Very fussy eater now, it’s finding a suitable carbohydrate , barley can I think be a bit hard to digest 

He likes tuna, but sometimes refuses all fish which is annoying when it’s cooked specially for him or a tin opened 

It’s mostly trial and error now, his favourite is freshly cooked chicken breast, or skinned thighs, straight from the pan, bashed and fried in a teeny bit of olive oil till just cooked

If he lives for six months he will bankrupt us >

Sandra


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## patp

I think oats are all right  Sweet potato is what all the doggy nutritionists recommend now. Ordinary potatoes are ok too.


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## aldra

The night before last a nightmare 

He was coughing a cough between being sick and chocking

He was constantly next to my bed , anxious

At Two I got up and we both came downstairs , he lay with with his head pointing up, didn’t relax

At 5 I got Albert up, did we need to take him to the vet?

We finally went to bed with him for a few Hours at 6 o’clock 

In the morning he seemed Ok, anxious to eat a chicken breast

We are completely knackered

Today he’s eaten and seems fine, he’s eating chicken and sirloin steak

And telling me he needs to eat again 

He may well survive , I’m not sure we will

Sandra


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## patp

Poor boy  And poor you!

You can always just call for advice? As these are new symptoms then they may still want to see him but it is worth a try.


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## aldra

Day by day Pat

He eats he doesn’t , he eats three times a day or once 

He sleeps all night or he doesn't

Enjoys a short walk 

He isn’t gaining weight , probably still loosing 

But I watched a programme on artic wolves 

He looks the same, skinny 

Chicken breast, skinless thighs , I now use packets of rice and add a little to sop the juices 

Sirloin steak, corned beef, and smoked haddock , the odd tin of butchers tripe

He’s decided if he’s going out, he will do it in style and eat his favourite things

A tiny bit of chocolate has him rolling his eyes

I’ve heard that is the some for people

Not for me , I’ve never really liked chocolate 

But then again this dog is a connoisseur, he won’t go out without style 

I hope he will share Christmas with us, the turkey

It will be his last Christmas I’m sure 

I hope with Covid it won’t be our last

Sandra


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## patp

Just think what you would be doing if not catering to his every whim, Sandra?! Keep it up I am sure he is loving the winter of his life


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## aldra

Well we’re are counting down Pat

He isn’t as steady on his legs, but he still enjoys his short walks

I feed him what he fancies regardless

And sneak him a little bit of chocolate 

He has a taste for sirloin steak, cooked rare and we get it cost price from Alberts brother

He sleeps well at night, Albert has moved back into the bedroom, snores and keeps me awake

But Shadow seems happier with us together

The things we do for love

Sandra


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## patp

He is a Shepherd. He likes his flock all together in one place


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## aldra

He’s eating , very selectively , expensively , and probably not enough 

It’s sad to see the weight dropping off him , my once powerful boy , reduced to skin and bones

He is not strong on his back legs anymore 

I really don’t think the vets can help him, I don’t think there will be a miracle cure 

He’s old when he’s ready we will let him go in peace

Meanwhile he’s happy for a short walk , selective in his diet, loves a little bit of chocolate, chicken breast as as and when he fancies it, smoked haddock , and the odd bit of salmon

But sirloin steak , cooked rare he loves

And of course corned beef, he loves corned beef

I’m not managing carbohydrates , he eats a round it 

Occasionally he enjoys a tin of butchers tripe dog meat 

For all that he is not eating enough to maintain weight 

My elderly hound from hell is slowly dying , but if he is not in any pain , we will manage it together 

No intrusive tests, no overnight at vets, we will just muddle on 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

aldra said:


> No intrusive tests, no overnight at vets, we will just muddle on
> 
> Sandra


I think that's the kind thing to do, if he's not in pain - keeping him where he's loved and comfortable.


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## aldra

I really hope so Jean

Sandra


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## patp

If he was diagnosed with low B12 I think I am right in saying that it can affect appetite. Perhaps the dosage needs adjusting? In the back of my brain there is something that says B12 is not absorbed very well from the gut and sometimes needs to be injected? I am not saying put him through exhaustive tests but just a little tweek of his meds by the vet might help? They could also rule out any pain too. Dogs are very good at hiding it. Even bending down to eat can be painful sometimes so they will avoid it. You are his advocate so the vet will be guided by how much you want to do. Just think if they give him some pain relief and a B12 booster and he starts to eat how much better you will feel!


----------



## aldra

He’s having the B12 booster tablets 

I’ve added a general multi B vitamin 

He still has very loose bowels, but he always has

He’s eating , but how much does he need to eat to maintain weight ?

Obviously more than he can eat now 

But we will just muddle on together, he tell me when he wants to eat, Im feeding him three four times a day

He Ok

I really don’t think he is in pain

He’s just fading slowly , sleeps well at night, isn’t over energetic during the day

He’s getting towards the end of his life

And I assure you he won’t suffer, my hound from hell 

By mutual agreement he will go when he is ready

He has controlled me all his life , the alpha Mayo , always I have been below him in his estimation, Albert above but me he protects 

But we know each other so well, my hound from hell and me 

I will know when he tells me it’s time

And I’ll miss him so much 

Sandra


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## aldra

Well he’s eaten a tin of dog food, butchers tripe

A 1/4 of tin a tin of corned beef, to conceal tablets 

1/2 a pound of sirloin steak with barley

4 chicken thighs and a chicken breast with a half packet of stir fry noodles 

I’m trying to introduce some carbohydrates , but carefully not to cause a worsening of his bowels 

Tomorrow I’ll try rice again, he went off it but maybe now he will enjoy it 

He eats paper if he can get hold of it, so I thought it time to introduce some carbohydrates and he seems happy now to eat them

Maybe the VitB12 is finally having an effect 

But he’s still a skinny hound, I could be done for malnutrition under other circumstances 

But he eats better than many 

How I wish it would fill his muscles out again

But we do the best we can

Sandra


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## aldra

He’s still with us

If we could control his very loose bowels maybe his weight may stabilise 

He’s eating well, three to four times a day

Sirloin steak, chicken breast and thighs ,beef liver, tinned butchers tripe , a little barley and rice , I’ll try rice noodles and he’s not keen on sweet potato or squash so I struggle with carbohydrates

All rarely cooked semi raw which he seems to prefer 

He’s not in pain

He enjoyed Christmas with family contact, and winston our grandsons dog 

His back legs are weaker but he still enjoys his walks

A good match to Alberts crappy knees 

They limp along together 

He can still jump into the estate, I’m not sure he could into the van, but we will meet that if and when we come to it 

Counting down to 13 yrs in May 

Sandra


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## patp

What about porridge oats moistened with meat juices or just mixed into his meat? Can he eat eggs?


----------



## patp

I have just seen on Facebook that a dog in Bury has been diagnosed with Parvovirus. The dog was vaccinated.


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## patp

This is from the lady's post- We walk Bailey to Nuttall park, tanner street and Holcombe hill. 

She now posts that there have been a few other confirmed cases in Ramsbottom and Bury. Let's just hope that Parvo has not mutated


----------



## JanHank

I wonder if these dogs have their booster shots every 3 years as it is not a one off inoculation and some may not realise that.


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## aldra

I thought it was every year Jan, shadow has a booster every year , but may been Parvovirus is only included every third year 

Rabies three yearly 

Sandra


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## patp

We boost parvovirus and leptospirosis every year, here, Jan. There is, however, quite a large body of anti vaxxers who just give the puppy shots and then no more. They say that the boosters are not necessary but many, I think, are making a financial decision as they all seem to have lots of dogs!


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## JanHank

I asked Mr. Google, the one I found said 3 yearly boosters, but this one says as you every year.
_
How many times do you give a dog a Parvo shot_?
1. Make sure your dog is properly vaccinated. Puppies should receive their first vaccines at 6-8 weeks of age; boosters should be administered at 3-week intervals until the puppy is 16 weeks of age, and then again at one year of age. Previously vaccinated adult dogs need boosters every year.

*And then *:frown2:
_Can a dog get parvo after being vaccinated?_
YES! Some may think once their dog is vaccinated they can't catch Parvo, but the virus has different strains and reinvents itself. So unfortunately, dogs definitely can still catch the parvovirus.


----------



## patp

I have also heard that the Parvo vaccine only lasts 6 months. I suppose that, like our flu, it mutates to a new strain every six months or so. Then they make a new vaccine which is given at the time the Lepto is given.


----------



## aldra

Well we hope some immunity exists

He doesn’t walk in that area, he only walks every other day as Albert suffers with his knees

He has the garden , but spends little time there, he feels the cold and can’t wait to back inside

He’s eating well and looking bright, skinny, but happy in his old age

But then again, sirloin steak, chicken breast, chicken thighs, beef liver, butchers tripe, a little fresh cooked rice and barley 

Who is kidding who?

Sandra


----------



## patp

Just been talking to local dog owners about a bug that seems to be circulating here. Lots of dogs appear to be suffering from it. Of course the GSD's all have it worse than the Labradors  We are hoping our Spaniel, who rarely even gets wind no matter what she eats, is going to dodge it.


----------



## aldra

I hope you manage to evade it Pat

Maybe the cold spat will reduce the bugs around , we always thought it reduced the flu virus 

Sandra


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## patp

So far so good! She had one day where her poo was a little yellow and soft but all back to normal now.


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## aldra

He is not doing so well

Although he seems bright, but mostly resting, no sign of pain ,slowly slipping away

I’m having trouble tempting him to eat , he loves liver but how much should he have

He’s drinking loads so I’m wondering how his kidneys are doing

Gets us up once or twice in the night to go out

He’s eaten once today and is not interested in eating more

I’ve roasted a chicken but he’s not interested 

Tomorrow I’ll offer rarely cooked sirloin 

I don’t know what else to offer my boy

A bit of chocolate he loves 

It’s hard too watch him slowly give up on life , but as long as he’s not showing any signs of pain

Still enjoying a short walk I guess he will call the shots

Sandra


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## jiwawa

I feel for you Sandra, so hard to watch.


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## patp

Is he resting because he is in pain and that is how he copes with it? They cannot say things like "I've got this awful pain around my kidney area". At the end of the day it is all about quality of life. Not eating and not wanting to move seem to point that he may have had enough of this living lark.


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## aldra

He still loves to go for a walk Pat and shows no indication of being in pain 

Just a bit weary but then again aren’t we all when we are not so well

Is drinking a lot and not eating so much, we will have him checked again by the vet, but he’s already had £600 worth of blood tests and nothing much has changed 

Still giving him B12 daily, and definitely not having biopsies done, he’s too old for that kind of upset in his life 

Just a matter of tempting him now with food he likes, keeping him warn and secure and let nature take its course 

He’s thirteen in March, not a bad innings for a large GS dog 

Much the same pattern happens with humans as advanced age catches up to us 

Sandra


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## patp

It is a fantastic innings, Sandra. None of my GSD's made it past nine  When my last boy's back end went I swore no more.


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## aldra

It is Pat, andthefact he has had a large proportion of his large bowel removed is prob catching up him now

It’s miracle we kept him around 50kl for so long 

Anyway to-prove me wrong he has just polished of a full can of corned beef , and a piece of rare cooked sirloin steak

Wouldnt do to give up his position as the Alpha Male this late in life !!!

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Appointment made with the vet

He is drinking far too much, and doesn’t always make it outside although he tries 

Fortunately we have an excellent carpet shampoo-r 

He’s eating today and so far no accidents 

Had a play with a tennis ball

And will have sirloin steak for supper

Still refusing any carbohydrates and I’ll try a few green beans

His favourite liver but that can only be 10% of his diet 

He’s gone off chicken although enjoyed the breast off our roast chicken last night 

He certainly intends to go out eating his favourite foods, advice to starve him until he eats what he’s given isn’t going to happen 

He’s so thin and will be given what he fancies within reason 

Sandra


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## patp

Who advises to starve him until he eats what he is given? I would do the same as you just let him have whatever he fancies. I have seen much chat about bone broth on that dog nutrition Facebook page. Not sure what it is recommended for but he might like it?


----------



## aldra

I think it’s advice for healthy dogs that have become fussy eaters, Pat

Wouldn’t want a life time of feeding a fussy dog 

Going to try very low fat mince beef casserole as a way to try to get him to eat a little sweet potato, the green beans were carefully picked around and left although he used to enjoy them , no doubt the sweet potato will suffer the same fate

Sandra


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## patp

It is for dogs with all sorts of allergies and health conditions, Sandra. You can get a private consultation with Holly the nutritionist. 
In Shadow's case I am sure she would say you are doing all the right things in just giving him the things he likes.

I have never had a fussy eater. The only time one of mine would not eat was when I went away on a course. I got back to a worried husband who said "she has not eaten since you went away". I prepared her food, put it down, and watched as she looked at husband! He had been saying "good dog" every time she left her food and to look at him! He was, in effect, teaching her not to eat. 
It took me several days of completely ignoring her and only leaving the food down for a maximum of ten minutes before removing it until the next meal time, to get her to eat again.


----------



## aldra

He seems to be enjoying semi raw food at the moment

Alberts gone to search for beef liver which is surprisingly hard to find in the local supermarkets, very few if any butchers in this area now outside of the market which is a hassle at weekend, or at anytime if mobility is compromised 

Seems ok on very lightly cooked steak and chicken, has been eating sweet potato and squash mash

Trying chicken hearts along with ox hearts, still loosing weight but eating fairly well at the moment 

To see the vet tomorrow, hopefully there is something to help stop him wetting in the house, seems very urgent and unable to get out in time, I put him out regularly but it seems to be night time, he wakes us but by the time we get downstairs it’s too late 

We have the new vaccine carpet cleaner which id recommend , leaves carpet almost dry

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

aldra said:


> We have the new vaccine carpet cleaner which id recommend , leaves carpet almost dry
> 
> Sandra


Is this a recent invention Sandra?!


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## bilbaoman

One of the problems us males face when we get old but for us humans the distance to the bathroom is not to far


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## aldra

Yep one of the problems us females face when we get older too

It’s a bugger getting older

Shadow, well he’s been part of our family for almost 13 yrs, he’d never pee in the house if he could make the garden, unfortunately it’s winter so doors are closed

I’ll shampoo accidents, I owe that to my hound from hell

Who has been a nightmare but will always be remembered as a gentle and not so gentle hound from hell

Jean you are getting picky my love >

Sandra


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## aldra

He started on antibiotics for a UTI infection

I’m getting desperate now , he ruining the wooden floors, mostly he pees at the door before we have chance to open it but dribbles on the rugs on route, worse in the night as Albert has no chance of getting down stairs fast enough to open the door for him , I’m trying a bath sheet which at least I can wash , mopping the floors twice a night is loosing its appeal

Giving the tablets are nightmare, he’s cottoned on if I wrap them in a sausage or a slice of Milky Way , refuses to catch thrown treats and dissects them on the floor to remove the tablet

The tablets are huge so I need to half them that’s twice the hassle 

My joints are not good prob due to the wet weather and I’m getting anxious and depressed and spending ages cooking food which he either wolfs down or refuses, and giving tablets which he spits out over and over 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

It's good they've found a reason that can be cured - IF you can get the tablets into him.

I used to hold the dog between my legs, raise her head, hold her mouth open n stuff the tablet down the back of her throat. Sounds horrible but it didn't seem to bother her. Not getting the tablet would.


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## patp

There is Jean's method or you could try this -

Go to a place where you have never giving him tablets before so that his suspicions are not so high. Take about 7 or 8 or more squishy treats. I used to use pats of butter for my wily old girl but ham or bacon or pate etc would do for big tablets. You know him best. Wrap the pills in two pieces and line them up where he can't see them. Give him one and smile at him. Give him another and smile at him again. Give him a third and another smile. Next, pick up two treats the first one contains the pill and the second one is pill free. Give him the pill doctored one, with one hand, but have the next one ready, touching his nose, in the other hand, for him to swallow as soon as the pill treat goes in his mouth. He should be so keen to get the one on his nose , by now, that he swallows the pill doctored one without mouthing it. 

I would try this before you try Jean's method as he will get very, very suspicious and you want to avoid that at all costs. If you do have to resort to the down the hatch method then have his bum in a corner and give him lots of treats and fuss afterwards because he will get more and more suspicious as the days go by. 

If all else fails ask the vet if he can have a long lasting injection instead.


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## JanHank

When you give him the tablet wrapped in something have you given him a few of these somethings without the tablet in?

Liver pâté is the best, 4 or 5 tasters each one a little bigger then the last one with the tablet in. Also if the tablet has been left for a few minutes with the Pate round it maybe it will absorb some of the flavour. 

Have you tried at pair of knickers on him with a pad, did that with our Yuni when she came into season before we knew she hadn’t been spayed.


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## aldra

Success today, but he was obviously hungry

Ate a lambs kidney, liver, three chicken sausage and three quarters of a tin of dog food+ antibiotic

Now only 3 more tablets to go + his evening antibiotic !!

Still peeing on the floor before we reach the door

I’m really hoping these antibiotics work

They cost £47 for 20 tablets, on Amazon 70p a tablet, so if he needs more I won’t be getting them from the vet, I really think that is profit making

Sandra
,


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## JanHank

aldra said:


> Success today, but he was obviously hungry
> 
> Ate a lambs kidney, liver, three chicken sausage and three quarters of a tin of dog food+ antibiotic
> 
> Now only 3 more tablets to go + his evening antibiotic !!
> 
> Still peeing on the floor before we reach the door
> 
> I'm really hoping these antibiotics work
> 
> They cost £47 for 20 tablets, on Amazon 70p a tablet, so if he needs more I won't be getting them from the vet, I really think that is profit making
> 
> Sandra
> ,


*Knickers,* try the knicker and a pad and the liver pate way I suggested.


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## patp

Glad to hear he has taken his meds 

I know it looks like profit making on the tablets, Sandra, but vets have huge overheads that have to be paid. These big, online, drug warehouses just stock tablets and other small items and so can buy from drug companies in bulk and get enormous discounts. They will, of course, require a prescription from your vet for which the vet must make a charge.

The last vet practice I worked for was on the verge of bankruptcy when they sold out to CVS to save some some staff from redundancy. One bad debt too many from clients caused this to happen. They, as a group of vets, were trying to provide a good service at a reasonable cost but could not make it work.


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## aldra

He’s too big for pads pat

We’re not talking a little pee, he does loads , the floor is swimming

The problem is when the joints get wet the absorbs the moisture

Albert is putting down a coat of floor wax to try to protect it , I just hope shadow doesn’t slip on it, that’s one reason we stopped waxing, but he doesn’t charge around much these days so fingers crossed 

I’ve dried it out with lavender oil scented bi carb of soda , it absorbs moisture , apparently it’s a good carpet cleaner if sprinkled on carpets, but I recon it would play havoc with the hoover filters, you’d need at least one spare

I buy bicarbonate in bulk for cleaning , laundry softening etc 

When shadow goes I’m going back to fitted carpet throughout anyway, I find it easier to vacuum these days than clean wooden floors , particularly with the light weight dyson rechargeable 

Although I’m guessing other light weight rechargeable will now be a good and a lot cheaper 

Anyway I’m off topic on my own thread, I’m just hoping the antibiotics work, I’m feeding him hearts,kidneys liver and chicken and steak, which he will eat , and occasionally a bit of tinned butchers tripe 

But I’ve just read that we need to monitor offal as it’s not safe to give too much, so it’s all blowing my mind

Trying to give him food he will eat and enjoy , keep his weight a bit up and him enjoying life

Sandra


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## patp

What about human incontinence pads or bed sheets?

I wouldn't worry about a balanced diet. At his age he is an invalid and just needs tempting with anything he fancies.

I remember my Gran wanting a drop of Whiskey when she was in hospital after having her gangrenous leg amputated. My mum thought she had better run it by the ward sister first and was just given a little nod and a wink. I think that Gran got a lot of joy out of secretly supping her whiskey under the bedclothes


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## aldra

I have incontinance pads

We use them when travelling to wick him off in the garage when he’s wet 

Funnily enough we just remembered them today , I have several new ones and loads of worn ones

We will get them out tonight and hope for the best 

It’s something to do with excess Vit and minerals, although I agree if he eats I feel better, I really hope he does 

Sandra


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## aldra

Still eating well three times a day

I don’t think he’s drinking as much water, although he had an accident in the bedroom last night , not a problem we can vax it 

Isn’t getting us up more than once a night and although he wet the bedroom carpet he didn’t drench it

Non downstairs so far today

He’s so anxious to eat his food his offal steak and chicken, I can just throw his tablets in and he eats them

You have no idea how much stress that removes from me

Sometimes it took an hour, and I’m not at my best , stiff and sore in a morning and tired at night

After four our five attempts I find myself yelling at him

That can’t be good I know

But I guess we are only human

I spend a lot of time cooking his meals, assorted meats, offal, rice, barley, veg

When he eats it Im over the moon

When he doesn’t it’s back to worrying

But at the moment he is eating and taking his tablets

Not weeing so much so I’m hopeful the antibiotics are going to work

And maybe he’ll put on a smidges ot weight

Sandra


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## dghr272

Given the stress of the situation for you and the dog, there comes a time when it’s kinder to end the upset a normally continent animal that can’t control their output feels. Not an easy choice but one that should surely be considered to respect the animal. Perhaps a firm conversation is needed with the vet regarding his prognosis. 

This suggestion is made with the best of intention and by having a similar experience with a much loved dog.

Terry


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## patp

Friend of mine has just been through similar, Terry. An ongoing gut problem that was making her and the dog's life a misery. She did just what you suggested and the vet confirmed that she was right and they let the poor little fella go. I passed on to her the thing I used to say to our clients - "if he could say thank you - he would" Not easy though....


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## aldra

Well you’d need to see him today

Shiny coat, thin but bright eyed, been out for walk with his coat on, limited only by alberts knees

Drinking as normal, no accidents today

The antibiotic seems to be working

He’s eating three times a day and doesn’t even notice the antibiotic is in his meal so anxious he is to eat

I’ll continue to be guided by him , he has guided me for 121/2+ years my hound from hell

I’d never dream of letting him suffer, although when I considered my wooden floors I was getting worried and eying him up to judge my suffering 

At the moment he’s happy, I’m happy, my floors are happy

He’s eating, content and at the moment so am I

I’m firmly convinced he’ll go when he is ready, and when he is, he will let me know 

We know each other so well

Sandra


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## patp

That's very interesting Sandra. Such a dramatic improvement, from a few weeks ago, seems to suggest that he may have had an underlying UTI for a while. Old age who wants it!?


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## aldra

Possibly Pat, he’s also on prescribed VitB12, and has been for almost three months

I think he mayhaveputa bit of weight on, but that could be wishful thinking and the fact his long coat has begun to grow again

If he continues to thrive we will have him clipped again in a few weeks as we cannot manage a long coat now

I onlynoticed that he was drinking far more than usual, but when he started to wee in the house I knew he wasn’t able to make it out in time, sometimes weeing and drinking at the same time 

The large door mat was a clue, often slightly damp on top as he has yeti feet and it’s rained a lot, when I lifted it it was drenched underneath obviously with urine so he was making it to the door but needed urgently to go out 

Fingers crossed he will continue to thrive 

I’m surprised the ultrasound didn’t indicate a problem, when the vet examined him the last time he was obviously in pain when she checked his bladder and kidneys, although she was a bit heavy handed

I’ll buy a set of urine strips so I can keep a regular check on his urine

He had been getting us up several times a night but we had put that down to his bowels, a long term problem 

Last night the first time in a while he hasn’t needed to go out 

Have ordered an Ox heart from Alberts brother, as he enjoys lambs heart but apparently Ox heart, liver and kidneys are richer in vitamins and minerals, or I think that was what they said on the raw food forum

I’m not feeding raw but only lightly cook his meat and use low-fat mince beef and chicken to flavour his rice and barley to make a base casserole with some carrot ,green beans, sweet potato and squash

Apparently pumpkin is good but I missed that boat at Halloween and I don’t see any now

If he doesn’t put on weight it won’t be for the lack of trying

Thinking we just may need to make a ramp to get him into the motorhome where he can continue to plague our travels once we can travel again 

Fingers crossed

Sandra


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## bilbaoman

If i am reincarnted as a dog i want to come to live with you or Pat the food sounds delicious


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## aldra

Albert says the same when I’m cooking for the hound

He says he is getting second best, as I say you’re welcome to serve yourself a plate, but do prefer your liver almost raw ?

So I make him lambs liver, lightly cooked with onions and mustard mashed potato’s , and buttered cabbage

The hound is not allowed mustard or butter:wink2::grin2:

Sandra


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## bilbaoman

aldra said:


> Albert says the same when I'm cooking for the hound
> 
> He says he is getting second best, as I say you're welcome to serve yourself a plate, but do prefer your liver almost raw ?
> 
> So I make him lambs liver, lightly cooked with onions and mustard mashed potato's , and buttered cabbage
> 
> The hound is not allowed mustard or butter:wink2::grin2:
> 
> Sandra


What no Bury Black Pudding:frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## aldra

Bury black pudding is great

Best bought on the market, whole pudding, I prefer mine steamed not sliced and fried

Fat black pudding or lean black pudding

With mustard and tomato sauce best eaten as you wander around the market, no aires or graces, no one cares, it’s a street food

Well it is , isn’t it Love? >

I was thinking to introduce some lean black pudding to the hounds diet

And it’s time I had a short wander around that market again

Covid vaccine tomorrow, maybe soon:grin2:

Sandra


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## aldra

He had a wobble

We return to the vet

He had completed his antibiotics

Refused to eat for a couple of days but wasn’t peeing everywhere

Decided to continue antibiotics for a further month 

This hound is going nowhere in a hurry 

Cooking offal, heart, liver, kidney, steak, barley, rice and veg

He had actually gained a kilo in two weeks

He’s eating non stop, steak, hearts, liver, kidneys, gizzards ,chicken ,
tinned dog food, barley rice and veg

Looking so well, no loose stools which is a miracle 

Feeding three times a day

He will go when he is ready, but not yet

Rarely getting us up in the night now

So we will see 

Have a couple of Ox tongues which we will share, once I can eat solid food again

Tonight beans and poached egg, mashed for me

I’ve lost 5lbs this week which is ok by me 

He is gaining

Sandra


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## jiwawa

aldra said:


> Have a couple of Ox tongues which we will share, *once I can eat solid food again*
> 
> Tonight beans and poached egg, mashed for me
> 
> I've lost 5lbs this week which is ok by me
> 
> He is gaining
> 
> Sandra


That's great news about the hound Sandra!

Have I missed something? - are you unwell?


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## jiwawa

Ah, just noticed on the other thread - it's the mouth! Sounds horrendous Sandra - I hope the pain n bleeding stop soon. If you're still bleeding maybe you should call the Dr, or the dentist?


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## patp

At least he has been considerate and made a recovery during your convalescence


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## aldra

I’m no longer bleeding, Jean

On the night of the operation I was close to attending A&E as the blood was literally pouring out of my mouth and I couldn’t get it to stop

Apparently they cut straight through to the upper jaw bone then stitch it back together once they have inserted the implants into the bone of the jaw and in my case also into the cheek bones

The teeth are permanently fixed 

It’s like bad tooth ache you are never sure which particular tooth is affected, my bottom teeth , my own ache constantly from inflamed nerves somewhere in my mouth and my whole mouth is raw and painful

Hopefully it will start to ease soon, they did say it was a major op, but I guess I didn’t think it would be this major 

Sandra


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## patp

Was there a particular reason you had this procedure Sandra?


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## aldra

Yes the implants I had5 years ago failed

This time I wanted permanently fixed teeth

They are actually screwed into the bone much as normal teeth and have no palette and can only be removed by a dental surgeon

It will be worth it in the end I hope 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

I thought implants were also screwed in - must investigate properly if I ever need them!


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## aldra

Yes implants are screwed in

But usually the dentures clip onto the implants and are removable, my last ones were 

These teeth are secured directly and permanently to the implants

Because of age and lack of bone density mine needed to be fixed into my cheek bones were there is sufficient bone

I think fixed teeth implants are common now into the jaw but they are very expensive 

Apparently few dental consultant surgeons can do the complicated cheek bone procedure which is even more costly 

Sandra


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## aldra

But teeth are not a luxury when it comes to cost

I lost mine due to a parathyroid tumour which raised calcium blood levels by taking calcium from bones and teeth to raise blood calcium levels beyond normal, it also calcified my heart valve at the same time

The surgeon told me , after the event, it’s second only to open heart surgery, nope open heart was much easier and much less painful in recovery

The jaw bone supported short term, but movement of the denture wore away the gums and bone

I need the density of the cheek bones to support the upper jaw, fixed dentures that cannot move and wear away the top gums and the bone of the upper jaw any further 

The cost , take a breath, £18,000, but I’d struggle to maintain a normal top dentures

And I’m hoping for another 10 yrs of life

If not sorry kids it’s cost you 18grand of your inheritance

Sandra


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## jiwawa

Crikey, I hope my own last me out!


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## aldra

So did I Jean

Once upon a time

But until you struggle to bite, to eat even to smile you never realise how important it is

Like so much in life that we take for granted until we haven’t got them

These teeth are temp for three months, thicker than the titanium final ones

The final ones I expect to ping every time I smile :grin2:

But more importantly to support my upper lip , to be comfortable, to enable me to eat in comfort

And if I’ve only got 5 years left 

That’s also OK

And to be fair my kids and grandkids agree it’s good value and have encouraged me to go for it

Sandra


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## patp

I'm sure the Grandchildren would want you to have anything you want, Sandra.

So pleased that Shadow is making such fantastic progress! Whatever that vet gave him was blooming good


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## aldra

I’m wondering if it’s his diet Pat

He’s eating three huge meals a day of steak, chicken ,heart, liver, kidneys, barley, veg and rice

No sign of loose stools which has plagued him since forever, perfectly formed

The antibiotic seems to be working for him but we would never have known if it wasn’t for his urine infection

He’s obviously gaining weight, his back legs strengthened 

He has a month of antibiotics, so we will see

Still taking Vit b 12

Sandra


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## bilbaoman

Not to worry you will get your money back when you are in the next James Bond film


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## patp

You may well be right Sandra. That forum I was telling you about, run by a nurse, warns everybody off feeding their dog chicken. Not sure why but she just does not like it. For one thing they can develop and allergy to it but she has something else against it and recommends turkey if she has to recommend a white meat diet. GSD's are known for their allergies, along with all their other problems.
His uti may have been rumbling along for some time and then flared up making him really poorly. Now that is under control he feels better and the diet is working to get the weight back on.
We are also being warned off rice. I think they say it is not easily absorbed. I feed a complete food so i don't get too embroiled in all the finer details but do find it interesting. Well, some of it


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## aldra

bilbaoman said:


> Not to worry you will get your money back when you are in the next James Bond film


I think I'll need a great deal of Botox first, no longer look like this, dispite 18 grand:grin2:

Sandra


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## jiwawa

I think we're all in the same boat Sandra, teeth or no teeth!


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## aldra

I have rather nice teeth now Jean, and these are only the temp set :grin2::grin2:

Mouth still a bit sore and inflamed as would be expected after major surgery but slowly improving 

It’s good to have permanently fixed false teeth >

Sandra


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## aldra

Well back to cancer

Albert has a colonoscopy on Thursday, once again a worry

He was fine at his scan in August and fingers crossed he will still be fine

His niece wasn’t it had spread to her liver but I think the operation was successful

Every six months, melonoma, prostate and bowel cancer, which if any has spread 

It’s wearing and frightening

Sandra


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## patp

So sorry you are feeling anxious, Sandra. It would not be normal if you weren't but it is not a nice feeling. At least, for this hospital visit, you have cover from the vaccine so that is one reassurance. Albert may well be one of those people, described to a friend by her consultant, that just does not succumb to cancer. Let's all hope so.


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## Penquin

Like so many others have commented, it's affecting me again....

Skin cancer has been detected in some of the pieces removed from my face and ear a couple of weeks ago, possibly not enough of a margin removed so they may revisit.... Meanwhile the pieces he took off my other ear are now being checked and were taken with a much larger margin....

At present I could play Dr Spock in Star Trek with my new Elf shaped right ear.....

Still I can always use a saw tooth edge to cut through tree branches..... saves the noise of a chainsaw.... 🤔🤣


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## raynipper

At least we are getting seen to Dave. My appointment for the dermo surgeon is in two weeks to see about digging bits out of my nose and arm. 
All very positive I think.

Ray.


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## Penquin

Agree, very fast and efficient service, the scars left on my face are incredibly neat.


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## aldra

Sorry to hear that Dave

With the best will we do become complacent after a while and it’s a shock to find a dormant cancer active again 

Fingers crossed for you and Ray on the melanoma front, albert is due a scan later this month to check for melanoma spread, hoping his luck will hold

Still so far so good 

Have they identified it as melonoma?, Albert has skin cancer on his forehead but not melanoma, he has it removed periodically but it tends to reoccur, it’s nothing like as aggressive or malignant as melonoma 

Wishing the best for both you and Ray 

It’s worrying, three people on this small MH community with melonoma and still people like to sun worship 

Sandra


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## patp

People always ask me, when we return from Spain, why I am still not tanned. Chris has a natural tan from always being outside. My reply is that I go for the dry, warm weather rather than to bake in the sun.


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## dghr272

Penquin said:


> Like so many others have commented, it's affecting me again....
> 
> Skin cancer has been detected in some of the pieces removed from my face and ear a couple of weeks ago, possibly not enough of a margin removed so they may revisit.... Meanwhile the pieces he took off my other ear are now being checked and were taken with a much larger margin....
> 
> At present I could play Dr Spock in Star Trek with my new Elf shaped right ear.....
> 
> Still I can always use a saw tooth edge to cut through tree branches..... saves the noise of a chainsaw.... 🤔🤣


Ah, so your adherence to Vulcan logic is now understandable :grin2:

Terry


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## jiwawa

Hoping all goes well for Albert, Sandra, and also Dave n Ray - as if we didn't have enough to worry about!


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## aldra

Phone call from Albert 

Still a bit groggy but everything is clear and healthy in his bowels

Having a bite to eat as he has had to fast from 3 pm yesterday and our daughter will collect him as of course he can’t drive following sedation 

Fingers now crossed for good news from Dave and Ray 

Sandra


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## Penquin

Glad to hear he's feeling OK, please wish him the best from all of us and both of us especially.


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## patp

Good news. Well done Albert!

Now waiting on the other two.........


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## aldra

Cancer is a rollercoaster 

As so many of us on MHF know

Ups and downs, worry, relief till the next time

But as yet you are still here, I just share the worry with Lesley, Prue and others 

I Still remember those who didn’t make it though-out the years I’ve been a member on here

But much has improved in both diagnosis and treatment of cancer

So hope is high 

Sandra


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## jiwawa

aldra said:


> Phone call from Albert
> 
> Still a bit groggy but everything is clear and healthy in his bowels
> 
> Having a bite to eat as he has had to fast from 3 pm yesterday and our daughter will collect him as of course he can't drive following sedation
> 
> Fingers now crossed for good news from Dave and Ray
> 
> Sandra


Delighted to hear the news Sandra! You can breathe again!


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