# Read this and then act please N Yorks to ban MH



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

North York County Council is intending to introduce a permanent ban on motorhomes on a specific part of the seafront;

http://www.tmcto.org/index.php/motorhome-news/item/83-north-yorksire-county-council

Please read this link and request the questionnaire for completion by 16th June 2014.

You might also like to consider submitting a Freedom of Information Acct request about the background to this proposed ban and what provision is made by the NYCC for MH use throughout the year since most caravan sites shut out of season....

The FOI can be used in the following manner;

https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/the-freedom-of-information-act

If more enquiries are submitted the Council may find it hard to justify such a proposal......

Dave


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

bump


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

well it is not rocket science to understand why.

cabby


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

So as I understand things the plan is that Tuggers can pull up in the lay by, jump into their caravan, stay as long as they like, including overnight, but Motorhomers can't do similar in their vehicles?

-Illogical.

And correct cabby. It's Discrimination


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

According to their website

http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/article/27877/Where-are-motorhomes-allowed-to-park

motorhomes can park there up to 11 pm at night and can return after 7 am in the morning but may not park there overnight. This seems perfectly reasonable, given that those who live in houses and flat along the sea front clearly do not like having their view impeded all the time.

I suggest you change your post heading to reflect the truth.

There is also this addition:

Any other unrestricted road remains available for motorhome parking. It is important to always check the local signs and road markings before parking in an area. There are also many privately owned caravan camping sites along the coast line which welcome guests.

You might also ponder the fact, in your " them and us" presentation, that each Freedom of Information request costs those having to deal with it a not inconsiderable sum. All UK councils are cash-strapped and have more important things to spend OUR money on than trivial requests.

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

You do realise that a lot of the council members walk around dragging their knuckles, they don't give a toss whether they are alienating anybody and are only interested in how it affects how they make money, the council take rates and other monies from camp site owners and they are doing Protectionism, and to stop the camp site owners and any locals from howling that they are being affected by whatever is not to their liking..

Example.. 

In the 70th anniversary of the D Day Landings, when the last of the veterans are limping over to Normandy for the last time and these are the lucky ones, the unlucky ones are still in Normandy as they never left and now have a regimental white headstone. for their sacrifice.

Now why did they go and give up their lives, the freedom of us to live our lives as free people.. So Scarborough Council under pressure from the local fishermen conjured a bye law that any boat that is not a registered fishing boat can land one lobster or 2 crabs...

So as divers where we have historically through out the country been able to take shellfish for their own consumption, now divers are selective and only take mature shellfish, will take out of any lost lobster pots captured shellfish you would be amazed how many pots are littering the many wrecks have become entangled and the pots lost, cutting the pots so they do not carry on ghost fishing...

So you might think a lobster and two crabs is reasonable, but this not per person it is per boat, so a typical rib dive boat will have 6 divers and not all of them will want to take a lobster so maybe only 2 or 3 will take a lobster, you can fill your boat with lobsters and nobody can do anything until you bring them ashore, when you fall foul of the bye law.

The landings of shellfish by local lobster boats at Bridlington 

(Quote Latest figures from the Harbour
Commissioners show the total value of
landings in a year was approximately
£5.7m, including 1,623 tonnes of edible crab
(£1.75m) and 366 tonnes of lobster (£3.5m).)

Compared to a few hundred selectively taken historically by all divers every year in the past.. So one could say who owns the fish in the sea, the local lobster boats apparently....

So who owns the roads in Britain, not you who pays the road tax, rates, income tax yada yada to keep UK afloat, it is some poxy official in a local council trampling all over you rights as a free citizen, what your parents and grand parents fought for.

ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

> Grizzly"]According to their website
> 
> http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/article/27877/Where-are-motorhomes-allowed-to-park
> 
> ...


Once again you have not read the original post and go mouthing off, If you read it again or better still know the place in question you would see it is not overlooked by anything.. :roll:

Or can see the bigger picture!.

ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thank you for your considered response, may I respectfully suggest that you have a look at Google Street view for the area under discussion, yes I agree it is 11pm to 7am for MH ONLY, caravans are OK to stay, as are buses, coaches, truck, lorries, vans, ambulances or any other vehicles.

The main point is that as you say;



> *Grizzly said; *This seems perfectly reasonable, given that those who live in houses and flat along the sea front clearly do not like having their view impeded all the time.


but Google Street view shows very clearly that for the places where vehicles may stop; i.e. the places WITHOUT double yellow lines indicating "no stopping at any time" there are NO houses, or Flats, or indeed any buildings at all;

54.499634, -0.664025

those are the Google GPS position details.

FOI requests are totally justified since there may well be complaints that would make such parking undesirable, there may also be complaints from local site owners about loss of trade, also relevant. FOI requests are justified by law, the cost of those may well not be to the benefit of the Council, but it is a cost that they have to meet.

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up.
> 
> You do realise that a lot of the council members walk around dragging their knuckles, they don't give a toss whether they are alienating....
> 
> ray.


So don't vote them in ! Most of the local council officials I know are people exactly like me; many are my friends indeed. They work very hard for the local community and use the money wisely. Local councils have regular, open meetings with the community and all are welcome- indeed, given the level of apathy- more than welcome to attend, and give their views. They can also air these views outside the meetings as councillors are all on e-mail or shopping in the local high street like the rest of us.

It's rather silly red-herrings- lobsters ?- like yours that cloudy the waters. It's not beginning to be relevant to the matter being discussed though no doubt you are seeking to inflame those who don't think or look at the facts as given in the Whitby parking discussion.

Go and jump on another bandwagon.

G


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

That very long layby is a favourite place for some coaches to park when visiting Whitby and not wishing to pay parking fees after they have dropped off their passengers. When parked there, some empty their toilet and waste water tanks into the few drains that are there. Note - coaches, not motorhomes. I used to go there regularly, but no more, as the place stinks from this indiscriminate dumping of waste.

I agree Penguin, no "view spoilers" for local residents.

Colin


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hey up.
> ...


Hey up.

If they are all like you gawd help us.. for an ex teacher you are once again showing your not very bright.. :roll:

ray.

(edit)

The very last bit of the most important document ever written in English Law in the Magna Carta reads.

* (63) IT IS ACCORDINGLY OUR WISH AND COMMAND that the English Church shall be free, and that men in our kingdom shall have and keep all these liberties, rights, and concessions, well and peaceably in their fullness and entirety for them and their heirs, of us and our heirs, in all things and all places for ever.

Both we and the barons have sworn that all this shall be observed in good faith and without deceit. Witness the above-mentioned people and many others.

Given by our hand in the meadow that is called Runnymede, between Windsor and Staines, on the fifteenth day of June in the seventeenth year of our reign (i.e. 1215: the new regnal year began on 28 May). 
..

And how can anybody vote a councilor in or out when they are not resident in that particular borough and have no say on any decisions except by protest.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Penquin said:


> Thank you for your considered response, may I respectfully suggest that you have a look at Google Street view for the area under discussion, yes I agree it is 11pm to 7am for MH ONLY, caravans are OK to stay, as are buses, coaches, truck, lorries, vans, ambulances or any other vehicles.
> 
> The main point is that as you say;
> 
> ...


Caravans do not get away scot-free

Park and ride areas

Motorhomes are allowed to park at the Scarborough park and ride sites, but not overnight. ***Caravans are not permitted.***

Other parking areas

Motorhomes are not permitted to park between the hours of 11pm and 7am each day on the following streets:
•A174 Sandsend (beach/front) 
•North Promenade, Whitby 
•East Terrace, Whitby 
•Royal Crescent, Whitby 
•Links View/Love Lane, Whitby 
•Royal Albert Drive, Scarborough 
•Sandside, Scarborough 
•Foreshore Road, Scarborough 
•Esplanade, Scarborough 
•Old A165, Cayton Bay 
•The Beach Road, Filey 
•The Crescent, Filey

The restricted times do allow the vehicles to park during the day.

Any other unrestricted road remains available for motorhome parking. It is important to always check the local signs and road markings before parking in an area. There are also many privately owned caravan camping sites along the coast line which welcome guests.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

The list of places you can not park overnight is entirely sensible as they are places I personaly know and will effect residents and traffic safety considerations, and I have no problems with that.

Motorhomes are not permitted to park between the hours of 11pm and 7am each day on the following streets: 
•A174 Sandsend (beach/front) 
•North Promenade, Whitby 
•East Terrace, Whitby 
•Royal Crescent, Whitby 
•Links View/Love Lane, Whitby 
•Royal Albert Drive, Scarborough 
•Sandside, Scarborough 
•Foreshore Road, Scarborough 
•Esplanade, Scarborough 
•Old A165, Cayton Bay 
•The Beach Road, Filey 
•The Crescent, Filey 

Compared to an official parking lay bye where no householders are affected, where anybody but motor homes can park and maybe not touring caravans? is selective discrimination..

When one council gets away with it others will follow, it sets a president.

ray.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> G


Hey up.

If they are all like you gawd help us.. for an ex teacher you are once again showing your not very bright.. :roll:

ray.

[/quote]

Thank you Ray. That's really pertinent to the discussion, or at least, I thought it was a discussion.

Are you saying that in UK we are not free under the specifications of Magna Carta to express our opinions ? I suggest you try a spell in a country where free speech and the right to vote are not allowed before you make an assertion like this.

My ancestors were suffragettes or supporters of the universal suffrage movement. They were not just supporting the rights of women to the vote. I do vote but I make sure, before I do so, that I know what I am voting for and how the bodies that I vote for are governed.

To return to the OP: the heading invited us to believe that all MH were banned in North Yorks. This turns out not to be so by a long chalk. Apart form the places listed on the council website, where there are places overlooked by residents, there are many places where parking is permitted. I'm not one of those motorhomers who believe that just because I drive a MH the rest of the world either envies me or tries to deprive me of my rights. I try to look at the argument from the other side of the fence too. Perhaps that is what made me a good teacher....even if I was not very bright !

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up 

I see your from Oxfordshire and what happens in our part of the UK will effect you tremendously, well I live in these parts and it does effect me so my stand on the subject will be more personal than some one pontificating from afar..

ray.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

NYCC are saying publicly that motorhomes should use local sites. This is illegal for a public body to advertise private businesses according to some EU Directive.

Especially when the sites are owned and run by the family of a Councillor. :? 

I am with Ray on this one, it is the thin end of the wedge. A lot of Council signs around the Country are illegal. That is because all the Council has done is to buy a sign and a pole. An employee has then placed it ....... cheap, cheerful ...... and illegal.  

Thanks to the efforts of some people, NYCC and Lincolnshire CC are starting to regret their manner of treating sections of British community.

Oh yes, you others just sit on your backsides. If there is anything good to report, one of us will let you know of the benefits you now have.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up
> 
> I see your from Oxfordshire and what happens in our part of the UK will effect you tremendously, well I live in these parts and it does effect me so my stand on the subject will be more personal than some one pontificating from afar..
> 
> ray.


Hang on a second Ray ! You don't know where I chose to spend my holidays or visit in my motorhome. I don't think that I would chose to spend them parked up on the sea front in Whitby though I would visit Whitby in the van and park in the places allowed- of which there are many.

Given that the OP is pontificating from France then surely I am allowed to pontificate from Oxfordshire ! Or is this a MHF example of cronyism....?

If, as 747 goes on to say in his post, the attitude of a councillor, if allowed to get away with something in one area, will affect how other councils behave, then surely you should be welcoming any stand I may make locally or my involvement nationally ?

I can't see where the council are advertising local campsites though my council clearly do advertise all sorts of local attractions via the tourist information office and all the various booklets sent out to suggest that people visit local towns. I don't imagine they know that it is illegal or I am sure they would not do it.

I don't understand but then I have it on your authority that I'm a bear of very little brain !

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

We could see your stand in your first post..

You got it totally wrong again, then come back talking cobblers and waffling on about how we need folk like you, like a hole in the head!.

Ray.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

So back to my point. If caravans are not to be affected by the proposed changes, why should Motorhomes?

Rhetorical, but it does raise issued about the real reasons for the change. And given the evidence shown by google street view, and by some who know the area, surely its the blockage of view issue that's the real red herring/lobster?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up.
> 
> We could see your stand in your first post..
> 
> ...


Ray really ! If you need to rely on gratuitous insults to bolster your argument then we must conclude you don' t have much of a case. At least try to write in a civil manner.

Me, I' m going to write to N Yorks council, as an aggrieved ex caravanner, to protest as not being allowed to use their park and ride facilities.

G


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up.
> 
> We could see your stand in your first post..
> 
> ...


Ray really ! If you need to rely on gratuitous insults to bolster your argument then we must conclude you don' t have much of a case. At least try to write in a civil manner and not get so angry.

Me, I' m going to write to N Yorks council, as an aggrieved ex caravanner, to protest as not being allowed to use their park and ride facilities.

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hey up.
> ...


Hey up.

You are going to write a letter to N Yorks Council... Now I love you and you can have my babies..

Ray.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

rayrecrok said:


> Hey up.
> 
> ... Now I love you and you can have my babies..
> 
> Ray.


Do you say that to every man of your acquaintance ?

Be careful !

G


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> > Hey up.
> ...


Hey up.

Absolutely if your doing the right think and not talking cobblers.. :wink:

ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have now received the questionnaire and will endeavour to attach it below, the deadline for the return of this document is now the 10th July 2014 "due to the volume of replies being received".

I am making no comment about it, merely suggesting that as many people as possible complete and return it so that a balanced view may be obtained.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Sadly I cannot attach it due to "internal server error" on MHF so will endeavour to paste it here;

_A "Motor Caravan" is a vehicle of category M with living accommodation space which contains the following equipment as a minimum:

(a) seats and table; 
(b) sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(c) cooking facilities; 
(d) storage facilities

The definition is contained within European Directive 2007/46/EC.

Q1	Contact name ____________________________________

Q2	Contact address Q3 Telephone/fax/email

____________________________ __________________________ 
____________________________ __________________________
____________________________ __________________________
____________________________ 
____________________________

Q4	Do you support the introduction of a traffic regulation order that prohibits motor
caravans from parking on the highway any day from 11pm to 7am? 
(please tick one box only)

Q5	Would you support an exemption from the above order for anyone displaying a 
blue badge in a motor caravan? (please tick one box only)

Q6	Would you support an exemption for residents that own a motor caravan and live 
on any of the streets directly affected by the order? (please tick one box only)

Q7 Are there any other comments you wish to make regarding motor caravan 
prohibition? (please write below…)

FOI Statement
Your views are important and you are urged to complete the questionnaire without delay. Your name and address is required for the analysis of the survey. Forms that are returned incomplete cannot be included. You should also be aware that this is a public consultation and that once submitted, your comments may be held on a public file and may be made available for others to read under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
_

If anyone would like a copy with the appropriate headings and boxes, please PM me your e-mail address and I will send you a copy, sorry I do not know any other way of attaching it.....


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

You are required to tick the appropriate box to reply. Trouble is, there are no boxes. :lol: 

Is this a ploy to avoid the wrong outcome?

I presume a No or Yes will suffice instead?

Some members have expressed indignation at the poor quality of Council Staff. Maybe there is some truth in it.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sorry 747, as I said when I posted it, I cannot get it to go on as an attachment - it simply says there is a server error - a fault which has been apparent since the weekend.

Hence I copied and pasted what I could, but the boxes and the header line picture will not paste by that way.

If you, or anyone else, would like to send me their e-mail address via PM then I will reply with the questionnaire with those missing pieces in place.

They also sent me information about lots of other parking plans including Filey Bay, Scarborough Esplanade and Scarborough Forest plus others ALL of which are plans for the prohibition of MotorHomes, totalling 9 different areas as well as the one mentioned in the OP.

If anyone would like copies of those .pdf's then please PM me with the e-mail address to send them to.

Apologies for the error - there is nothing that I appear to be able to do to attach documents to posts at present......

Dave


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi Dave,

I have been sent the email too. I opened up the document in my newly downloaded Open Office to find no boxes in the document. Whether that is the fault of Open Office or NYCC is not clear. 

I should explain that I only had Notepad on my computer for word processing (which is all I normally need) but the documents would not open in Notepad. So I downloaded Apache Open Office (to give it the full program title.

It is a plot against we motorhomers. 

:evil: :lol:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have just tried again to upload the documents as attachments and all I get is a white page with the following message;

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, [email protected] and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

So if anyone has any suggestions as to how to get around this I would be very grateful.....

I will try to alert the admin to this too......


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I have filled the form,
They have already changed their letter as they retracted their original email and sent a second one. NYCC is an absolute joke.

Their second email was sent with someone elses email who had requested one. Their name and email address was there for me to see. I will be considering making a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office re the breach of data protection.

If you can see someone elses email address I suggest you complain to the council and ICO.

What a joke dont the council train people about data protection?


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

I gave up on going to yorkshire years ago. theres are other places that can have my money.

Shame really but they re obvoiusly so well off that they can discriminate so let em get on wth it and go elsewhere. 

There a whole continental europe out there just as nice as whitby and scarborough.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

While I share some of the feelings about they don't want the money, my main reason for raising this in the first place is the idea of precedence since if one council decides arbitrarily that they do not want a sector of society but are willing to have everyone else that is discrimination IMO.

As a precedent that would be a bad thing to allow to pass unchecked, if a council wanted to ban a particular group such as "left handed people" or heaven forbid "those in same sex relationships" or similar there would be a rapid outcry and condemnations.

Such condemnations would rapidly result in an about face, but banning a perfectly worthy group of road users while allowing others to do EXACTLY the same thing in the same place without check seem to me to be unacceptable.

Hence, in my opinion, it is something that wants challenging and rather than stand outside with placards, or similar, I am simply suggesting that interested parties - i.e. those who potentially MIGHT be affected by such a restriction, should raise their concerns using the legal opportunities offered.

My questions to them about the number of complaints and the relationship, if any, between campsites and council members, has been forwarded to their management team for response under the Freedom of Information Act request - which anyone is entitled to ask, no justification needs to be given.

Please complete the questionnaire and return it to them - it is very innocuous and will not give them much support for their proposed ban IMO.

Thanks, this is a much better way of tackling such things IMO that the "hindsight" method that has had to be used over the closure of the Baltic Wharf Caravan Club Site in Bristol where the decision was made BEFORE such consultations were initiated.

Dave


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> According to their website
> 
> http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/article/27877/Where-are-motorhomes-allowed-to-park
> 
> ...


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have now had two responses from the people at NYCC, one dealing with the number of complaints and it says "a significant number of complaints" but is unable to say how many or whether they are relevant as their data does not give them that opportuinity.

They also say they do not hold information about what sites are open throughout the year (alternatives to parking there) so cannot answer that request.

I have also received a revised letter to go with the questionnaire which significantly changes things and *MAKES IT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE RESPOND;*

_Good morning

I apologise but recent changes in procedure, mean the attached letter was no longer accurate to describe procedure.

If there are no reasonable objections to the proposals, it is anticipated that the restrictions will be made permanent within six months from the end of the consultation period. From 1st June 2014, If objections are raised which are not resolved or withdrawn, it will be necessary to report the objections to the Director of Environmental Services and the Executive Members for Business and Environmental Services for consideration and a decision on the course of action to be pursued.

I am sorry for any confusion caused by this._

So if no complaints are received it will be introduced. BUT if complaints or objections ARE received it will be discussed further.

*SO PLEASE RESPOND* if you value the chance to use these parking areas, where there are no houses or buildings that could be interfered with, caravans and other vehicles can legally park there overnight, motorhomes cannot......

Dave


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Even if you dont use these areas. By answering the questionnaire you will help preven the council getting the first step in the door of banning motorhomes anywhere they choose.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Dave. I will pm you my email address, if you email be the documents Ill host them somewhere and provide a link.

Just one thing. The argument about motorhomes spoiling peoples view. Ok not in the place Dave mentioned but perhaps some of the other areas where restritions are in place. If its just between the hours of 11pm and 7am isnt it kind of errrrrr... Dark? :? 

Just sayin!


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Even if you dont use these areas. By answering the questionnaire you will help preven the council getting the first step in the door of banning motorhomes anywhere they choose.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Dave has sent all the documents which I am now hosting in "A Cloud thing" 

You should all be able to access them here NYCC We hate all Motorhomers a lot linky thing Documents

I have also converted the Word Questionaire and letter to PDF format and the tick boxes should appear. Why anyone would send out an MS office document and not a PDF is beyond me but there you go.

You should be able to click on them and download or open them.

How much can I invoice NYCC for this by the way?


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks Barry.

I filled in the form in Open Office OK but when it came to the comments section, I was unable to insert any text into it. :roll: 

I will download your conversion instead.

BTW, a member of another forum made a post of his European trip with lots of lovely photos of Aires. I could not resist and sent a link to the NYCC email address and told them that it makes them look a bit silly when 'this' is available instead. :lol:


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

barryd said:


> Dave has sent all the documents which I am now hosting in "A Cloud thing"
> 
> You should all be able to access them here NYCC We hate all Motorhomers a lot linky thing Documents
> 
> ...


The dropbox server must be running VERY S L O W, Barry. It takes an age to load each document.

Anyway, I have filled out the questionnaire appropriately and will send it off straight away. We might no longer have a motorhome, but the discrimination shown by this makes me boil!!!

Colin

[EDIT - just realised that Barry is using Dropbox, not hosting these personally.

This action by NYYC contravenes EU legislation in that it discriminates without due cause and certainly not on the grounds of safety.]


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I just stuck it in a Dropbox account Colin and shared it. Maybe thousands of angry motorhomers are downloading it right now!

747. I just clicked on the border of the text box and deleted the box and typed my objections in the space left.

I have emailed mine to the address on the letter which is

[email protected]

Presume thats right.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have had a reply (I asked them to acknowledge reciept) from Emily on the email address above stating my comments will be included for consideration.

So emailing the questionaire works if you can get around filling it in on the Puter!


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Yes Barry that is the correct address.

I don't trust NYCC and printed mine out and filled it in by hand. It is in the envelope, just waiting for a stamp. I believe that they are capable of jiggery pokery over this matter and there is no independent oversight. They just have one aim and that is to ban motorhomes by any means possible. I have been following this saga for a few years now. That is why I don't trust the Council at all.

I made numerous comments.
They are breaking their own anti discrimination policy by targeting just one class of Category M vehicle (and European law no doubt).

I also told them that motorhomes have very little in common with caravans and they should learn that.

I also told them to stop ignoring advice from Motorhome owners (they have a history of ignoring owners helpful advice). I told them to google tmcto.org. :lol: 

I also said that I have not been to the area for a few years because of their attitude which has cost their economy several hundred pounds in total and the fact that I have never seen a foreign registered motorhome at all (after asking them to look at Aires, Stellplatz, Sostas etc.)

I still think it is a completely senseless exercise as they have already made up their mind.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I tend to agree with you. I had to let out a sigh when I saw Daves post. There have been countless campaigns and threads on the wildies forum for years about Whitby and Scarborough council. They never seem to back down or change their views.

Your quite right. Clearly they (or is it SOMEONE) doesnt want us anywhere near unless they are on (thier) campsite! :roll: 

I dunno how you have the paitience to be honest. I just loose the will to live when I have to on occasion deal with councils etc.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

My response:

"I cannot conceive of any reason to ban motorhomes from parking overnight without also banning all other vehicles. These are totally self-contained machines (I own one) and, in my experience, the chances of their owners creating unsightly waste, annoying other folk with excess noise or other anti-social activity is considerably less than I have experienced from many other road users: most motorhomes are operated by people similar to me – a retired teacher with a social conscience and a reasonable disposable income.

My parents spent their honeymoon is Scarborough. I was taken there as a child and through my teenage years, often camping at Dennis’ near Filey. As a father I took my own children to camp at Silpho Cottage and the CCC site at Scalby. In these situations, I needed a campsite with all facilities. My motorhome does not need these facilities. In France, and many other European countries, I am welcomed and encouraged to park for free or at low cost, using a system referred to as “aires”. These are provided by local communities which benefit from motorhome owners spending money in local shops rather than putting it into the hands of campsite owners (I will happily spend £20 per night in a café/restaurant if I haven’t paid that for a small square of grass: if I have paid to camp then I spend £4 in a supermarket for simple food and cook it myself). Several councils in the UK are now realising the potential for attracting tourists by providing similar schemes: NYCC will drive me, and many like me, into the arms of other towns if you implement this proposed parking ban. You will also fail to attract as many foreign motorhome users, who find it difficult to understand such discriminatory attitudes, as you otherwise might do.

PS Royal Albert Drive has no residents and is an ideal spot to ENCOURAGE overnight parking and generate extra income: think positive please."


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