# Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome deal



## tontosordo

Just wanted to warn anyone who has bought a Motorhome from Alan Kerr LTD in Torbay, please check that the tyres fitted to your motorhome are the correct ones. 
As part of the deal we insisted that two new front tyres should be fitted. We picked up our motorhome from them the same day as they passed it's MOT with no advisory''s. 
12 Months later at it's next MOT we were told that the front tyres were the wrong ones, as they are not a camping tyre, and had the incorrect max psi. 
Our Motorhome is 5000kg tag axel and requires 80psi camping tyres on the front, not 75psi commercial tyres as fitted by Alan Kerr Ltd. 
I immediately contacted the salesman Paul who sold us the van. He said he would check with the workshop and "call me back" LOL (what a joke). 
I rang back 3 times before he finally spoke to inform me that he had checked with the workshop and the tyres were legal and "what they fitted as standard". 
They finally agreed to pay for new camping tyres to be fitted local to the Somerset dealership, where the new MOT was done. 
Very scary to think that an MOT approved dealership should fit incorrect and potentially dangerous tyres "as standard."


----------



## peribro

I think you've done well to get replacement tyres as the original tyres would have sufficed. I don't know your front axle weight but you won't need to inflate your front tyres to anything like 75psi, let alone 80psi. 60psi would probably be more than sufficient but you need to contact the tyre manufacturer with the axle weights in order to get a definitive answer. There was a recent thread on here about the merits of CP tyres over "ordinary" ones.


----------



## RichardnGill

The pressure a tyre can take has nothing to do with an MOT, as long as the tyre is the correct size and load rating it is suitable to be fitted. 

With out knowing all the details it might be a bit harsh having a go at Alan Kerr LTD as they may have done nothing wrong bases on your comments above.


Richard...


----------



## soundman

There is nothing wrong with ordinary tyres on a motorhome providing they are the correct size and spec. etc.
Our new Hymer came with Continental Vanco four season tyres.
After contacting Continental and giving them the axle weights they provided me with the correct pressures. No where near 80 psi.
47psi and 65psi to be exact on a 4.2 ton van

Soundman


----------



## tontosordo

Thank you for comments.
Vehicle passed MOT.
Written on yellow sheet with MOT.
Advisory Items. Both front tyres are non camping tyres and can only hold 76psi. They should have 79.5psi in them.
Front axle 2100kg.


----------



## camper69

tontosordo said:


> Thank you for comments.
> Vehicle passed MOT.
> Written on yellow sheet with MOT.
> Advisory Items. Both front tyres are non camping tyres and can only hold 76psi. They should have 79.5psi in them.
> Front axle 2100kg.


If the 79.5psi is taken from the sticker on the door post then it does not mean it correct when a motorhome body is bolted on the back. A MOT garage probabily don't realise this

As has been said already you can only correctly know the pressure to put in the tyre if you contact the tyre company with the axel weights. If tyres are the right spec then there is nothing wrong.

Derek


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Read this post.
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-105663-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html

I was worried when I found the max pressure on my Hankooks were 65psi and the tyre fitter had inflated them to 80psi.
After being educated by Hankook and other bodies I am satisfied with tyres that are fitted.

What is your max front axle weight and what was the loading weight on the tyres that have been removed.
If the axle weight is 90% of the tyre loading weight you have no worries.
I am sure that a dealer would not fit the incorrect tyres.

If your tyres are within those limits maybe an apology would be in order. If not tell us.

Dave p


----------



## motormouth

I think you need to be careful here before making accusations. A lot has been said on here about tyres and pressures. There is absolutely no need to fit camping tyres to a Motorhome. The only way to ascertain correct pressures is to have MHome weighed at weighbridge, fully laden with water, fuel, passengers etc, front axle, rear axle and overall. Then email tyre manufacturer directly with these weights and the size of tyre. They will respond with correct pressure. I would be very surprised if they came back with 80psi. As camper69 said, the plate on the door pillar is for a base vehicle with the capacity to carry a lot more weight than your MHome.
As you have got new tyres from the supplying dealer, just be thankful


----------



## teemyob

*Alan Kerr*

Sounds to me that it is your MOT Station that is at fault and NOT Alan Kerr.

Camping tyres are NOT a requirement

Sounds like they (the MOT Station you chose for the renewal (not Alan Kerr)) need to brush up on their MOT Manuals.

I think you have done extremely well to get a new set of tyres from Alan Kerr and to then come on and slate them without knowing the full facts and figures regarding your tyres, is a little unfair to say the least.

TM


----------



## fdhadi

In the Burstner Handbook, Burstner advise the following for our 04 reg A747:

5.5 Bar (79.7psi) Front

3.5 Bar (51.7psi) Rear

At 5.5 (79.7) Bar in the Front it feels very hard and can feel every bump. I have adjusted mine to 5 Bar (72) for a better ride.

The rear at 3.5 (51.7) Bar looks and feels very soft. Again I have adjusted these to 4 Bar / 58 psi again for a much better ride.

*But, these Pressures are for Camping Tyres. It does give a figure for Non Camping Tyres but I do not have the book here. I would guess at a lower Pressure.*

So at 5.5 Bar (79.7) tontosordo is probably correct :wink:


----------



## BillCreer

Hi Tontosord,
I believe you have behaved absolutely correctly. The firm from which you bought the van even confirmed you conclusion by replacing the tyres. If you can't believe "professionals" who can you believe?
Thank you for passing the on the warning.


----------



## 747

Members should take note of Dave (Chemical Ali)  and his point about the 90% load figure.

An independant tyre company owner warned me that the 16" Michelin Agilis are very close to being unsuitable on the Fiat based big Burstners (747, 748, etc). If you overload the van they are probably not up to the job.


----------



## ActiveCampers

Your MOT man is WRONG.

As long as your tyre load rating is sufficient for max front axle weight then its fine. You most definately do not need camper tyres.

As far as I know, MOT never check the tyre load? I don't believe mine never have been as I watch the very thorough guys I use and they've never looked nor looked at the doorplate...

I am using normal commercial tyres, as was the van when I bought it, and I've spoken to the suppleir to get advice, and they knew it was a camper and said the new tyres were fine, and then gave me the correct pressures for my loading - 45/55 - so nowhere near 80. 

If my MOT man gave me a warning or failed it, I'd laugh and ring VOSA whilst standing there. There is NO WAY an MOT man would know the pressure a van would need - depends on tyre, tyre structure, and axle weight. Knowing only the plated value is not sufficient for a calculation.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

mmmm No weight figures and no apology.

Dave p


----------



## BillCreer

Hi Tontosord,
Don't be bullied by people with doubtful credentials on this forum.
You have nothing to apologise for.


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*

I would be interested to learn

* What size the tyres are on tontosordo's Argos
* What Version of Argos tontosordo has
* What Specific Chassis and Model Year the Argos is
* What Brand and Model tyres were fitted prior to them being replaced
* What Brand and Model tyres were fitted by Alan Kerr as part of the deal
* What Brand and Model tyres were then subsequently fitted fitted by Alan Kerr in view of the other MOT Stations remarks
* What tyres other members have fitted on the same Specification of Vehicle

?

TM


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

BillCreer said:


> Hi Tontosord,
> Don't be bullied by people with doubtful credentials on this forum.
> You have nothing to apologise for.


Facts.

Dave p 
not a bully but a person who accepts there are two sides to problem.


----------



## gaspode

Hi All

I don't think there is any call for apologies or arguments here.

What the O/P reported was, in his opinion as a lay person correct and logical. He was stuck between two opinions, one from the dealer who supplied his M/H and the other from the MOT tester. How is he to determine which "expert" is correct? I have to say that given the choice of accepting technical advice from a dealer or a MOT tester I would almost certainly go for the advice given by the MOT tester. The dealer may be sincere in what he says but he's unlikely to have the technical training or independent status of the MOT tester.

As it happens, I would consider that in this case the MOT tester was incorrect - but without the specific advice from the tyre manufacturer I wouldn't want to stake any money on it. What I would be confident about was that both parties were giving what they considered to be the correct advice based on their skills and knowledge at the time.


----------



## teemyob

BillCreer said:


> Hi Tontosord,
> I believe you have behaved absolutely correctly. The firm from which you bought the van even confirmed you conclusion by replacing the tyres. If you can't believe "professionals" who can you believe?
> Thank you for passing the on the warning.


In Fairness, the "professionals" (I assume you mean the most recent MOT Testers )got it wrong if they as stated "we were told that the front tyres were the wrong ones, as they are not a camping tyre"

TM


----------



## teemyob

*read*



gaspode said:


> Hi All
> 
> I don't think there is any call for apologies or arguments here.
> 
> What the O/P reported was, in his opinion as a lay person correct and logical. He was stuck between two opinions, one from the dealer who supplied his M/H and the other from the MOT tester. How is he to determine which "expert" is correct? I have to say that given the choice of accepting technical advice from a dealer or a MOT tester I would almost certainly go for the advice given by the MOT tester. The dealer may be sincere in what he says but he's unlikely to have the technical training or independent status of the MOT tester.
> 
> As it happens, I would consider that in this case the MOT tester was incorrect - but without the specific advice from the tyre manufacturer I wouldn't want to stake any money on it. What I would be confident about was that both parties were giving what they considered to be the correct advice based on their skills and knowledge at the time.


From what I read from the topic Starter. Alan Kerr is also an Approved MOT Testing Station?


----------



## peribro

The OP and others who have not seen it before, may find of interest the leaflet entitled Motorhome Tyres and Your Safety. It is published by TyreSafe and a copy can be viewed here. As has already been pointed out, the definitive answer on correct pressures should be sought from the tyre manufacturer but this leaflet provides useful guidelines. The OP advised that his van's front axle weight is 2,100 kgs. Not sure if this is the maximum or what it actually runs at but assuming the latter, then the leaflet shows the recommended pressures for light commercial tyres to be between 60psi and 62psi for an axle weight of 2,100kgs whilst for CP tyres it is generally around 65psi. Unfortunately coach builders and dealers either routinely give no recommendation at all or instead quote the tyre's maximum pressures.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

gaspode said:


> Hi All
> 
> I don't think there is any call for apologies or arguments here.
> 
> What the O/P reported was, in his opinion as a lay person correct and logical. He was stuck between two opinions, one from the dealer who supplied his M/H and the other from the MOT tester. How is he to determine which "expert" is correct? I have to say that given the choice of accepting technical advice from a dealer or a MOT tester I would almost certainly go for the advice given by the MOT tester. The dealer may be sincere in what he says but he's unlikely to have the technical training or independent status of the MOT tester.
> 
> As it happens, I would consider that in this case the MOT tester was incorrect - but without the specific advice from the tyre manufacturer I wouldn't want to stake any money on it. What I would be confident about was that both parties were giving what they considered to be the correct advice based on their skills and knowledge at the time.


Skills and knowledge should be based on facts at the time. ie: max axle weight and tyre load. as per recomendations. Not th esimple fact that tyres are not marked camping tyres.

dave p


----------



## cronkle

This is a link to the MOT tester's manual

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm

The motorhome should have been tested as a Class 4.

I hope this makes things clearer.


----------



## bigtwin

The OP indicates that the reference to the incorrect tyre was marked as an "advisory".

This would suggest to me that there is nothing wrong with them just that its an observation by the tester.

It is difficult to conclude anything else since the status of the tyres (with respect to them being the 'wrong' tyres) would not change between the MOT just completed and the next MOT due in one year.

Contrast this with an advisory on tread depth that just passes legal limits. In this case, an MOT would be granted now but action would (most likely - dependent on annual mileage!) be required to replace the tyres prior to the next MOT.

Ian


----------



## rangitira

Sorry guys! If you havn't got the right tyre for you unit your insurance is null and void.
By over or under inflating you are ruining your tyres, (wearing out the middle or outer edges)
Tyres are also speed rated! You can't put Tyres rated, for example, for a Morrie Minor on a BMW. (Yeh I know, wrong sizes!)
Just phoned my brother-in-law, who runs a Garage MOT testing station in Chesterfield. His guys fail a vehicle if it hasn't got the right tyres, speed or load rated.


----------



## camper69

mojomc said:


> His guys fail a vehicle if it hasn't got the right tyres, speed or load rated.


That would be correct, but the OP was talking about tyre pressure and did not mention speed or load.

Derek


----------



## peribro

mojomc said:


> Sorry guys! If you havn't got the right tyre for you unit your insurance is null and void.


 I think it would depend upon the circumstances of any claim. If an accident was caused as a result of "wrong" tyres being fitted, then I can imagine an insurer declining a claim. If a vehicle is stolen and it happened to have "wrong" tyres fitted, then I think an insurer would struggle to decline a claim on those grounds.

In any event, no-one on this thread has advocated the fitting of "wrong" tyres. The main points have been that you don't need to fit camper specific tyres (CP tyres) to a motorhome and nor do you necessarily need to inflate the tyres to the pressures that are stated by many converters as these are often over-stating the correct pressures for the axle weights.


----------



## Codfinger

Defo, I have commercial tyres fitted (Goodyear G91) which have a higher load rating than std fitment.


----------



## erneboy

Mojo I am interested in you statement that insurance becomes null and void if the wrong tyres are fitted. I wonder if you would be kind enough to post the passage from your policy document which says that, Alan.


----------



## rayc

mojomc said:


> Sorry guys! If you havn't got the right tyre for you unit your insurance is null and void.


Unless an accident was caused by the tyres there is no way an insurance company could get away with that. They would be on very rocky ground to even suggest it in any case if the tyres have been fitted by a bona- fide company, especially one specialising in the vehicle as is the case with the OP.

Thousands of motorists depend on specialists every day to carry out repairs to their vehicles. There is no way that they as lay persons would be held responsible for the actions of bona-fide service providers. The driver is responsible for keeping the vehicle roadworthy as far as it is practicable for him to do so not in any event.
I do not know where these scare stories regarding insurance come from but it is not the companies themselves or the Motorist Insurance Bureau.


----------



## WildThingsKev

Perhaps the reason the MOT station failed is because it sounds as though the van had commercial tyres on the front and camping tyres at the rear; ie different types of tyres on different axles which certainly would make it difficult to get a good balance of tyre pressure / roadholding between front and rear.

Kev


----------



## tontosordo

If I am wrong on this matter I am sorry to them for the original post. However if I am correct I would like to add this to the list of poor workmanship, lack of care and inconvenience by them.


----------



## camper69

rayc said:


> mojomc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know where these scare stories regarding insurance come from but it is not the companies themselves or the Motorist Insurance Bureau.
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Forums perhaps :roll: :roll:
> 
> Derek
Click to expand...


----------



## CourtJester

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



tontosordo said:


> ...as they are not a camping tyre..."


First of all I am not a tyre expert but the manual for my Burstner does not state that the tyres MUST be camping tyres. It states that they should be of type 'C', which I believe are 'commercial' tyres.

The tyre pressures are given as front 41 bar and rear 45 bar.

I have in fact Continental Camper tyres fitted: 215/70 R15 CP with a load index of 109. The recommended tyre pressure printed on the tyre is 69 psi.


----------



## peribro

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



GG222 said:


> I have in fact Continental Camper tyres fitted: 215/70 R15 CP with a load index of 109. The recommended tyre pressure printed on the tyre is 69 psi.


 I'm sorry to take issue with you on this but are you sure that the tyre pressure printed on the tyre is the "recommended" one rather than the"maximum" one for a given load? The problem is that the tyre manufacturer has no idea what load you will be carrying when the tyres are manufactured so the best they can do is give the maximum pressure and load that the tyre can bear. On my Continental CP's, which are a different size to yours, there is additional wording that states something along the lines of "due to the special service needs of motorhomes these tyres can be inflated to 79psi". Yours may have that as well but 79psi is no more the recommended pressure than 69psi is.


----------



## rayc

camper69 said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mojomc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know where these scare stories regarding insurance come from but it is not the companies themselves or the Motorist Insurance Bureau.
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Forums perhaps :roll: :roll:
> 
> Derek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why it is important to quote the source of the 'fact' being quoted, which is what erneboy asked the poster to do.
> 
> I also go on a towing forum and you would not believe the spin which is put on crystal clear regulations with regard to the licence group B and B+E towing weights and limits.
Click to expand...


----------



## rayc

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



GG222 said:


> I have in fact Continental Camper tyres fitted: 215/70 R15 CP with a load index of 109. The recommended tyre pressure printed on the tyre is 69 psi.


I have the same tyres. Stamped on them it says:

"Permitted Maximum Inflated Pressure 5.50Bar"

Below that is a motif of amotorhome and it says:

"Due to special service conditions of motor caravans it is permitted to increase the inflated pressure"

I suggest the only people who know what that means are Continental.

unclenorm had a very interesting discussion with their technical people which led to a recommendation that the pressure specified by MH convertors could be relaxed in line with a table they produce.
What their Product Support Engineer did say was:

"As a general rule for pressures with this tyre, every 100kg added from the base figure of 1490kg at 3bar [43.5psi] willl require an increas of 0.25bar [3.6psi] in pressure up to a maximum of 2060kg at 4.5bar [ 65psi]". 
He then said " front axle 1850kg pressure 4bar [ 58psi] and rear axle 4.5bar [65psi] at 2060kg]". He obviously means the load on the axle not on each tyre.

How this stacks up on my MH with an 1850kg front axle at the handbook specified 4.5bar and rear axle at 2060kg at a specified 5.5bar God only knows. It is clear that the convertor and tyre company do not talk to each other.


----------



## 747

The onus is on the driver to ensure that he/she has the correct tyre pressure for the vehicle (and nobody else). If there was an accident and the pressures were found to be much too high (or low) then the Insurance company could (rightly) say that it was a contributory factor and the payout could be reduced.

My first van came out of Brownhills with 80 psi in the tyres and it was a deathtrap. The Elddis website said 43 psi and they looked flat. I rang Michelin with the axle loading and got the correct pressure and it made a world of difference.

Also remember that the correct tyre pressure will help your mpg and at £1.40/litre, every little helps.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

My mh has passed three mots with C tyres. 
The first with the original C michelins and the other two with C Hankooks.

Dave p


----------



## rayc

747 said:


> The onus is on the driver to ensure that he/she has the correct tyre pressure for the vehicle (and nobody else). If there was an accident and the pressures were found to be much too high (or low) then the Insurance company could (rightly) say that it was a contributory factor and the payout could be reduced.


So are you saying that Elldis handbook was wrong? How would you as a lay person know that? If you were subject to a VOSA check what would they say with regards to the pressures being higher or lower than the handbook and possibly a plate / label in the vehicle?What is the correct figure in any event?
How would the insurance company determine the correct figure, is it Elldis the converter or Michelin the tyre company? What if you had changed the make of tyre whilst keeping to the specification with regard to load and speed?

My Ford Fiesta has various pressures for front and rear tyres dependant on loading on a plate affixed to the door jamb. The pressures are given for various sizes of tyre it is permissable to fit. There is no mention of specific manufacturers - are manufacturers tyres the same pressure for specific loadings?

Obviously if you had tyre pressures that are very low or very high or a combination of the two the insurance company may question it but whilst the tyres are within a 'normal' range for the type then they would have no chance.


----------



## CourtJester

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



peribro said:


> GG222 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have in fact Continental Camper tyres fitted: 215/70 R15 CP with a load index of 109. The recommended tyre pressure printed on the tyre is 69 psi.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to take issue with you on this but are you sure that the tyre pressure printed on the tyre is the "recommended" one rather than the"maximum" one for a given load? The problem is that the tyre manufacturer has no idea what load you will be carrying when the tyres are manufactured so the best they can do is give the maximum pressure and load that the tyre can bear. On my Continental CP's, which are a different size to yours, there is additional wording that states something along the lines of "due to the special service needs of motorhomes these tyres can be inflated to 79psi". Yours may have that as well but 79psi is no more the recommended pressure than 69psi is.
Click to expand...

Thanks peribro.
I've just been to check and no, it does not say 'recommended' as you say, it is just stamped '69 psi'.
It also has a stamp that states 'maximum pressure 5.5 bar'.

Apologies for the unintended mis-information.


----------



## fdhadi

As I said in an earlier post, Bustner do give a tyre pressure for Non Camping Tyres.

So these must be ok to be fitted.


----------



## 747

rayc said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The onus is on the driver to ensure that he/she has the correct tyre pressure for the vehicle (and nobody else). If there was an accident and the pressures were found to be much too high (or low) then the Insurance company could (rightly) say that it was a contributory factor and the payout could be reduced.
> 
> 
> 
> So are you saying that Elldis handbook was wrong? How would you as a lay person know that? If you were subject to a VOSA check what would they say with regards to the pressures being higher or lower than the handbook and possibly a plate / label in the vehicle?What is the correct figure in any event?
> How would the insurance company determine the correct figure, is it Elldis the converter or Michelin the tyre company? What if you had changed the make of tyre whilst keeping to the specification with regard to load and speed?
> 
> My Ford Fiesta has various pressures for front and rear tyres dependant on loading on a plate affixed to the door jamb. The pressures are given for various sizes of tyre it is permissable to fit. There is no mention of specific manufacturers - are manufacturers tyres the same pressure for specific loadings?
> 
> Obviously if you had tyre pressures that are very low or very high or a combination of the two the insurance company may question it but whilst the tyres are within a 'normal' range for the type then they would have no chance.
Click to expand...

Was the Elddis handbook wrong?......yes it certainly was because it did not give any tyre pressures at all.

The label on the offside door jamb gave a pressure of approximately 80 psi. That label was stuck on a Fiat cab only section that left the Sevel factory.

The Elddis tyre pressure information was obtained from their website. It has been revamped since then but it was a useless website in 2005. Their customer service was just as bad, they had no email address and there was never anyone in the building capable of answering questions. The Elddis switchboard operator was tougher to get past than Norman Hunter. :lol:

I do not agree with your comments because if a Police Traffic Accident Investigation Officer found your tyre pressures to well out of the recommended pressure range, you would be to blame for that fact. Iam sure that Insurance companies would put great store in the Police findings.


----------



## rayc

747 said:


> I do not agree with your comments because if a Police Traffic Accident Investigation Officer found your tyre pressures to well out of the recommended pressure range, you would be to blame for that fact. Iam sure that Insurance companies would put great store in the Police findings.


I said "Obviously if you had tyre pressures that are very low or very high or a combination of the two the insurance company may question it but whilst the tyres are within a 'normal' range for the type then they would have no chance".

I have agreed with you that if the tyres are found to be well out of recommended pressure for the vehicle questions could / would be asked.

What the "recommended correct pressure range" is for a particular tyre / load combination is what this topic is all about.

The Fiat Ducato light chassis is the most widely used plateform for current MH's. The GVW is 3500kg with front axle load limit 1850kg and rear axle 2060kg. The tyres fitted are normally 215 /70R 15 CP. Fiat give tyre pressures of 4.5bar front and 5.5bar rear which in most cases the converter confirms as their recommended pressures. They do not differentiate for different tyre manufacturers eg Continental or Michelin. Continental's Product Support Engineer has recommended lower pressures in unclenorms correspondance with him. It is not compulsory to fit CP tyres as C ones are more than adequate and their pressure / load figures can be found from the manufacturer.
Defining 'normal pressure ' is where all the difficulty seems to be.


----------



## rayrecrok

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



GG222 said:


> tontosordo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...as they are not a camping tyre..."
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I am not a tyre expert but the manual for my Burstner does not state that the tyres MUST be camping tyres. It states that they should be of type 'C', which I believe are 'commercial' tyres.
> 
> The tyre pressures are given as front 41 bar and rear 45 bar.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Front presure 41 bar 602.7 psi... rear 45 bar 661.5 psi, I would have thought that would be a tadge hard on the ride.. :wink:


----------



## CourtJester

Thanks Ray. I take your 'point'.


----------



## BillCreer

An easy mistake but the ensuing explosion would remove your head.


----------



## BrianJP

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



rayc said:


> GG222 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have in fact Continental Camper tyres fitted: 215/70 R15 CP with a load index of 109. The recommended tyre pressure printed on the tyre is 69 psi.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same tyres. Stamped on them it says:
> 
> "Permitted Maximum Inflated Pressure 5.50Bar"
> 
> Below that is a motif of amotorhome and it says:
> 
> "Due to special service conditions of motor caravans it is permitted to increase the inflated pressure"
> 
> I suggest the only people who know what that means are Continental.
> 
> unclenorm had a very interesting discussion with their technical people which led to a recommendation that the pressure specified by MH convertors could be relaxed in line with a table they produce.
> What their Product Support Engineer did say was:
> 
> "As a general rule for pressures with this tyre, every 100kg added from the base figure of 1490kg at 3bar [43.5psi] willl require an increas of 0.25bar [3.6psi] in pressure up to a maximum of 2060kg at 4.5bar [ 65psi]".
> He then said " front axle 1850kg pressure 4bar [ 58psi] and rear axle 4.5bar [65psi] at 2060kg]". He obviously means the load on the axle not on each tyre.
> 
> How this stacks up on my MH with an 1850kg front axle at the handbook specified 4.5bar and rear axle at 2060kg at a specified 5.5bar God only knows. It is clear that the convertor and tyre company do not talk to each other.
Click to expand...

Well thats interesting as I have had many Email exchanges with Continental Tech Support on this subject and they finally Emailed me a copy of their technical tyre handbook.
In that it states for your tyre size ( in Camper Tyres) and loading 4 Bar front ( up to1885Kg) and for 2060 Kg rear single axle 5.5 Bar is required, whereas a front axle loaded to 2060Kg would only require 4.75Bar. 
When I queeried similar discrepancies for my MH axle loads they explained that higher pressure was advised for the rears because of weight transfer whilst cornering and braking etc?? Perhaps even they disagree amongst themselves? as the "Tyresafe Pressure Chart" ,produced by the tyre manufacturers association shows higher rear pressures only if the wheels are driven. My MH came with no recommendation from the manufacturer and only the standard Fiat Ducato handbook figures of 80psi.I just wanted to find the correct pressures but even now I am not really sure if I have them.

Incidentally if anyone wants the Conti Handbook I can Email to them as its to big to upload here


----------



## 747

Hi Brian,

I do not use Conti's but many others do.

Maybe you could add it to the forum under Resources - Useful downloads.

Resources is at the top of the page.


----------



## BillCreer

Well Tontosordo have you digested all that opinion and information?

I hope you have because I expect a summary, on my desk, first thing in the morning.

There will be no excuses as you never know when to expect "The Next Spanish Inquisition"


----------



## BrianJP

747 said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> I do not use Conti's but many others do.
> 
> Maybe you could add it to the forum under Resources - Useful downloads.
> 
> Resources is at the top of the page.


Ok thanks. I had overlooked that section.
Have just uploaded Handbook so hopefully will be available soon.It has lots of useful info for everyone for Car 4x4 and Van tyres including Camper tyres of course.


----------



## loughrigg

camper69 said:


> If the 79.5psi is taken from the sticker on the door post then it does not mean it correct when a motorhome body is bolted on the back. A MOT garage probabily don't realise this.


I recall when I was trying to establish the correct tyre pressures for my MH. The following is an extract from my post at the time:

"A Peugeot commercial vehicle main agent has stated that the records of the vehicle show that the base was supplied as a "bare chassis for conversion". Accordingly, the advice from Peugeot is

*"the tyre pressures specified in the handbook supplied with the vehicle or appearing on the door pillar should not be used as definitive statements of required tyre pressures as they relate to the vehicle only at the point of construction". *

Peugeot's position is that as they have no knowledge of the manner or type of conversion, they cannot and will not recommend an appropriate tyre pressure for the vehicle. This is based upon the possibility of changes being made to the gearbox and/or suspension post-production (by the converter) that are unknown to Peugeot and which could change recommendations relating to the vehicle in standard (production) configuration.

When asked if they could confirm the size of tyre that should be fitted to the vehicle the answer was similar - without knowing full details of the conversion and any associated gearbox/suspension modifications, they could only confirm the standard tyres at production which might or might not be appropriate tyres post conversion.

Ultimately, Peugeot's advice was to refer to the vehicle converter who would be able to advise details of any post-production modifications and recommend the correct tyre pressures for the tyres they (the converter) deemed appropriate at the time of conversion."

Mike


----------



## teemyob

*tonto*

Last input from me for now, maybe until Tonto returns. Or was the register just to slate off a trader without much backup?.

Could be another trader for all we know?

Complications of Pressure


----------



## rangitira

camper69 said:


> mojomc said:
> 
> 
> 
> His guys fail a vehicle if it hasn't got the right tyres, speed or load rated.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be correct, but the OP was talking about tyre pressure and did not mention speed or load.
> 
> Derek
Click to expand...

My mistake, read it wrong thought it was over fitting the wrong tyres.BUT, with SOME Insurance companys getting a claim paid is like trying to catch a slippery pig! They'll do anything to get out of it!
I read on another Forum of a similar case to this one (OP) that was settled happily. Guess that Chap handled it differently.


----------



## teemyob

*Slag*

So here we are.

All this time on. Used 5 free posts to slate a dealer.

Barely a thanks, kiss my 4rse for all the help and replies.

Says a lot really (that the dealer offered as a goodwill gesture, new tyres in a bid to pacify a customer. Despite the tyres obviously being safe and legal).

Enough said.

TM


----------



## BillCreer

*Re: Slag*



teemyob said:


> So here we are.
> 
> All this time on. Used 5 free posts to slate a dealer.
> 
> Barely a thanks, kiss my 4rse for all the help and replies.
> 
> Says a lot really (that the dealer offered as a goodwill gesture, new tyres in a bid to pacify a customer. Despite the tyres obviously being safe and legal).
> 
> Enough said.
> 
> TM


Where did that come from? Not a Freemason are you? Careful how you answer that.


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Slag*



BillCreer said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> So here we are.
> 
> All this time on. Used 5 free posts to slate a dealer.
> 
> Barely a thanks, kiss my 4rse for all the help and replies.
> 
> Says a lot really (that the dealer offered as a goodwill gesture, new tyres in a bid to pacify a customer. Despite the tyres obviously being safe and legal).
> 
> Enough said.
> 
> TM
> 
> 
> 
> Where did that come from? Not a Freemason are you? Careful how you answer that.
Click to expand...

I know quite a few, does that count?.

Just typical, come on spout off and disappear!

Plenty of replies, help and assistance from people and despite this, never came back with any hard evidence that his original complaint was justified.

Think I will be ignoring posters first 5 free ones in the future.

TM


----------



## BillCreer

Ah but Tontosrdo is a paid up member. 

Might have scared him off now though.


----------



## teemyob

*hands*



BillCreer said:


> Ah but Tontosrdo is a paid up member.
> 
> Might have scared him off now though.


I hold my hands up, my error.

TM


----------



## peribro

The fact remains that he slated off the dealer and has not been back, so far as I am aware, to correct the accusations that were levelled.

By the way, I am not a freemason nor a dealer but am very happy to defend dealers when appropriate - it's easy to criticise them and I'm afraid that mud sticks even if thrown by mistake.


----------



## BillCreer

In these situations I think "what would my wife do?"

She is told by an MOT station that her vehicle has a dangerous / illegal combination of tyres.

She would take the vehicle back to the supplier and complain bitterly.

If the supplier then changed the tyres to correct the situation she would have every reason think she had done the right thing.

She would then come home and tell me to go and sort them out. (no she wouldn't)


PS

But I would.


----------



## peribro

I've looked back and see that the OP did post the following to say "If I am wrong on this matter I am sorry to them for the original post. However if I am correct I would like to add this to the list of poor workmanship, lack of care and inconvenience by them." It'still a shame that a dealer got wrongly blamed because of an incorrect assessment by an MOT tester although I agree that I would probably have assumed that the MOT tester was correct.


----------



## BillCreer

What might have sorted the problem out very quickly and it is what I think most good dealers would have done is:-

Contact the MOT station and ask them what they were doing.

Might have nipped it in the bud ?


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Mot testers are not always right.

My Honda failed mot last year as the examiner said the number plate swere too small and did not show the suppliers postcode.

I had to point out that the plates were of correct size and that the motorcycle was 15 years old and did not require suppliers postcode.
So he failed it on a missing rear reflector

Dave p


----------



## BillCreer

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Mot testers are not always right.
> 
> My Honda failed mot last year as the examiner said the number plate swere too small and did not show the suppliers postcode.
> 
> I had to point out that the plates were of correct size and that the motorcycle was 15 years old and did not require suppliers postcode.
> So he failed it on a missing rear reflector
> 
> Dave p


At least he got the important safety issue correct and maybe saved your life.


----------



## tontosordo

No not scared off. Not had internet for a while. Thank you for all the replies. 
Taking a well earned break after having to go through a nightmare battle to get a partial roof rebuild on our motorhome. My favourite dealer had fitted our satellite dish on the roof, using an existing plate because they couldn't get the plate off without making a mess of the roof!! They had to resealed it after just a week due to the water coming through the electric light, this lasted until a trip to Scotland where we had a repeat of the problem. 
We took the van elsewhere for investigation, watched as the plate came off cleanly using a cheesewire and saw first hand that there were 2 holes in the roof under the plate big enough for me to put my finger through and a score mark along the edge of the plate. A bodged attempt to remove the plate had just been sealed over. 
Now had a first class repair done £719 worth(not by Kerrs). Will never let our motorhome anywhere Alan Kerrs again. 
Will be without internet again for a while. Please don't think I am ignoring you! 
Cheers!


----------



## 747

*Re: Wrong tyres fitted "as standard" by motorhome*



tontosordo said:


> Just wanted to warn anyone who has bought a Motorhome from Alan Kerr LTD in Torbay, please check that the tyres fitted to your motorhome are the correct ones.
> As part of the deal we insisted that two new front tyres should be fitted. We picked up our motorhome from them the same day as they passed it's MOT with no advisory''s.
> 12 Months later at it's next MOT we were told that the front tyres were the wrong ones, as they are not a camping tyre, and had the incorrect max psi.
> Our Motorhome is 5000kg tag axel and requires 80psi camping tyres on the front, not 75psi commercial tyres as fitted by Alan Kerr Ltd.
> I immediately contacted the salesman Paul who sold us the van. He said he would check with the workshop and "call me back" LOL (what a joke).
> I rang back 3 times before he finally spoke to inform me that he had checked with the workshop and the tyres were legal and "what they fitted as standard".
> They finally agreed to pay for new camping tyres to be fitted local to the Somerset dealership, where the new MOT was done.
> Very scary to think that an MOT approved dealership should fit incorrect and potentially dangerous tyres "as standard."


This is a word of warning for anyone with a 5 ton MAM tag axle motorhome, especially those with 4 belted seats behind the cab and fresh water tank near the front.

I put my van on a weighbridge (at a Metrology Lab, so it should be reasonably accurate), the findings astounded me.

I had removed the large overcab mattress (Super King Size)
I had 7/8ths of a fuel tank
I had just over 1/2 a tank of fresh water
No passengers, just me in the cab (about 12 stone in weight)

Front Axle reading was 1960 Kg -- max front axle loading 2000 Kg

Rear axles reading was 2310 KG -- max rear axles loading 3000 Kg

If you are carrying passengers and have an empty fresh water tank and almost empty fuel tank, I believe that you will be overweight on the front axle. I had only 40 Kg to spare.

If you can, carry all your kit in the rear garage or directly over your rear axles.

If you think you know better than me or have a different opinion, do not shoot the messenger 8O get your van on to a weighbridge and let that be the deciding factor.

There might even be some of you out there who have saved money on tyres by buying ordinary commercial ones. I hope you do not live to regret it.


----------

