# 5th wheelers?



## mike_rolls37 (Feb 3, 2006)

Please excuse my ignorance - but what are 5th wheelers?
Mike


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

*5th wheelers*

Hi Mike 
This is American talk for a towed van see this link, its self explanatory. http://www.fifthwheelco.com/

Kind regards


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*5th. Wheelers*

 
Hi there, basically a cross between a motorhome and a caravan.
They're those big RV type things, some with slide-outs, that hook on to the back of a large pick-up truck to be towed around, and then unhooked on site like a caravan. I like them but couldn't cope with the physical strength needed to hook-up and un-hook. In effect you get the space/facilities of an American RV at the price of a posh caravan or cheap motorhome.
saluti, eddied


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"I like them but couldn't cope with the physical strength needed to hook-up and un-hook."

Eddied,

I'm genuinely interested in what tasks were physically demanding.

Thanks,

Dave


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

:? 
Well I've never had one, but looked closely at several at various shows.
Just the sight of the fixing plates, and getting the front legs up and down and whatnot put me off.

But, the real physical pain would be holding the pen, to write out the cheque for said 5th. wheeler plus the tow truck!

saluti,
eddied


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

*Re: 5th. Wheelers*



eddied said:


> basically a cross between a motorhome and a caravan.
> saluti, eddied


I don't see how it is that. It is a caravan with a different type of connection to the 'towcar' from usual. OK, so you have to have a specific type of 'towcar', a small lorry, but it is still a caravan.

A motorhome is built on a motorised vehicle chassis; a 'fith wheeler' is not. It is a caravan. It is living accomodation designed to be towed behind a motor vehicle. It is a caravan.

How is it anything else?

Harvey


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*5th. Wheelers*

 
Hi Harvey,
does it really matter?
what I was trying to do was explain to someone who had evidently never seen one what they looked like. I still think of them as a cross between a RV and a caravan.

saluti,
eddied


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Technically, yes, it is nearer a caravan than a motorhome.

IMHO, however, in use, then practically speaking it is nearer a motorhome than a caravan! 

I certainly hope the UK/ European suppliers multiply and mature over the next 10 years, because as a concept for the use I envisage in retirement I think they are very attractive.

I've posted on this in the past so won't repeat here.

Dave
Eddied - coupling and uncoupling should be effort-free. Just reverse carefully and the coupling clicks. Then just join connectors, press buttons to power up the jacks, and away you go.


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## mike_rolls37 (Feb 3, 2006)

Thanks, folks - I've actually seen one at a site a few weeks ago - didn't realise that is what they are called.
Mike


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

*5th wheelers*

Hi there,

Just read your comments about fifth wheelers, and thought I would give you the benefit of our knowledge of the fifth wheeler.

We purchased our fifth wheeler (called the globe stormer) from the fifth wheel company, a few months ago, then went off to France and Spain it it for three months.

With regards to hitching and unhitching it is easy, my husband can even do it without me guiding him onto the fifth wheel hitch, because you can actually see it whilst reversing (unlike a tow bar used for caravans), as for lowering the legs, this is done by pressing a button, it's so simple even I can do it.

It takes us no longer to park up and get the kettle on as it did when we owned a motor home, we have 50 gallon tanks on board which we can leave full when we are driving, we have the same awning as we had on the motor home, and the same standard of wintirization. In fact we are delighted with our fifth wheel and in a lot of ways it is like a motor home, in the sense that we have the pros of a motorhome, but with the extra of having a pick up to drive off in when we have unhitched.

Everyone has a different wish list whether it be a motor home caravan or fifth wheeler, but this has proved to be everything we dreamed of, if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask, thanks

cavaqueen


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

cavaqueen,

Glad it has all worked out as you planned. What covering is over the huge bedroom roof window, or do you romantically sleep under the stars every night? 

Did you find it gave you enough physical separation when you needed it, when using it over 3 months?

How has the build quality stacked up? You must have been an early buyer.

Dave


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

*5th wheelers*

Hi Dave,

There is a large blind (a larger version of what you get on the side windows), but if romance is in the air (my husband just shouted one in a blue moon) you can lie there and look at the stars (better than looking at a bland ceiling!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, there is plenty of room up there, we have to use king sized bedding, also the slide out we have makes the lounge area a fantastic space, much better than we had in the motorhome.
The build quality is good, we have had a couple of problems, due to the fact that ours was one of the first ever built, but as soon as we took the fifth wheel to the fifth wheel company (without booking an appointment) they asked if we wanted to leave it there on the same day, and nothing was too much trouble, they even changed the manufacturers badge to a Welsh one at my request, and at no expense. the main thing I like about the company is that it is relatively small and they will make any changes that you want (i.ie I wanted a microwave & hob fitted and not an
oven) they had never done it before but did a brilliant job, they even fitted a rabbit hutch in one of the storage areas under the dinning room seat for one couple who had a house rabbit!!!!!!

cheers cavaqueen


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Dave, I too have been looking very closely at fifth wheelers as an alternative to a large european or RV m/h for fulltiming in. As you may have noticed in my previous posts we live full time in an older 38' Newmar on our Nursery 
( mainly to get round planning rules) and travel around in our Bessacarr. We never drive the Newmar because I dont have a HGV licence which it would require. It concerns me a bit because we have that lump of an engine sitting there idle and not getting started. To start it occasionally would mean bringing the slide out in and probably raising the jacks which is all a pain so it doesnt get done. The RV cost us 17,000 so I have resigned myself to having a few years cheap living in it before just selling it on for whatever.
Going back to the fifth wheelers I havent a clue what size vehicle I could drive on my pre 1997 licence that allows me 7.5 tonne. Are there any other rules etc that anybody has come across regarding these vehicles.Clearly we wouldnt need to tow anything like a car or trailer. I like the idea of doing away with both my vans in a few years time and buying a fifth wheel instead of a under 7.5 tonne RV. The fact that I wouldnt be able to tow our small car behind an RV without taking another test has put me right off. Most RVs are on the 7.5 once theyve been loaded with chattles etc and would be left with just 750kg for a car on top up to the max of 8250kg.
Another thing that concerns me is the fact that as we get older all of us have to pass a medical to keep that 7.5 tonne licence. Does anybody know what the rules are with towing a fifth wheel, they are obviously heavier than a caravan. My current licence will cover me no doubt for now as I doubt they go near the 7.5 tonne limit.
Another thing that has crossed my mind is that certain sites would be unaccesible with one of these. Village aires in france would probably be out as would a lot of the smaller cls & cs in this country or would they? Are they more manoeverable than a normal car & caravan? So many questions to ask, lol


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## 102138 (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi Tony
I think that you should look in a few, different size, 5th wheels as there are so many layouts to choose from, then work out what would suit you best, look at storage, especially under-floor lockers. Find out the "pin weight", with this and the weight of trailer you can establish what type of pick-up you need, when you know this you can work out your total weight, I've found that they can range from 3.5 to 5.5 tonnes dry weight for about 30-35ft.
I spend as much time as I can on "www.motorhomemagazine.com" it is an American forum and has a really good 5th wheel section. I have owned mine for just over a year and am more than happy to help with the experience I have had so far.
The issue of brakes has cropped up once or twice, electric brakes are legal providing you have the sensor to go with the trailer but American trailers don't have a parking brake so this should be added to an imported one.

Nigel


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Tony

This is a complete guess but presumably if neither vehicle was over 7.5 ton and the total combined weight was no more than 8.25 tons you would be okay.


stew


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Tony,

With regards to the driving licence, you can tow a fifth wheeler with an ordinary licence (as you can a caravan) our van weighs 2.5 tonnes, the larger UK made one is 3.5 tonnes, and both can be towed by a Nissan Navara pickup, (the newer model has better torque) or a Mitsubushi (I think)

We have parked on pitches as small as 70m, it all depends on the access onto the pitch, unlike a caravan you cannot handball this van onto a pitch and you cannot have a caravan mover fitted.

The only warning that I received about fifth wheelers is that some from abroad are too wide and not technically legal to tow in this country.

I hope this helps Cavaqueen


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## muggers (Jul 14, 2007)

I've just seen one of these for the first time pulling into the CC site at Killin. It looked  HUGE 8O I certainly hope it didn't try going down the Loch towards Kenmore. The truck towing it looked a bit scary to be meeting on those roads too even if you did park the van up as a base for touring.

Aren't they really meant for the open highways of Wyoming (for example)?


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks nigel Ive bookmarked that forum. I wouldnt think actually manoevering onto a pitch would be much of a problem providing your reasonably competent at reversing a trailer bearing in mind also that you have the benefit of the truck having four wheel drive for any damp grassy pitches. I hadnt realised that fifth wheelers are relatively new to the UK which is obviously why we dont see many of them on the roads yet.
I would love to be able to go out and buy say a thirty foot RV to drive around the countryside especially after living in ours for the past two years and experiencing the home comforts they afford but theres so many negatives against running one on the road to my mind.I run 3 7.5 tonne lorries in my business so I know Fuel consumption and other running costs have to be the main consideration followed by Insurance, breakdown costs, tyres and other parts, saleability at a later date (there seems to be loads for sale in the 3 ms every month) It worries me also at my age would I be able to sell it quickly if I failed a medical as I get older and had to downsize to under 3.5 tonne. Also having commited to fulltiming in a large van how would we manage in a smaller van if our health deteriorated.

A nice size fifth wheeler seems to me the way to go. You will have all the benefits of a motorized RV, comforts, space, king size bed etc etc. Plus I wouldnt need to tow a car around anymore to get access to places that an RV wont go. I dont know about costs or availability of things like Insurance and breakdown cover, running costs if using a european size pick up truck should be considerably better than running a huge american sized petrol or diesal engine. If I find as I get older that I can't drive anything big anymore then I will just park the trailer up on a site fulltime and not have to worry about all the mechanical side of an RV going to pot through lack of use.


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi again Tony,

With regards insurance, ours costs £405 for the pick up and the fifth wheeler, but you have to have a tracker fitted which costs £125 per year.

Fuel consumption is around 27 miles to the gallon when towing, and your earlier concern regarding brakes is not a problem the British vans have the option of air brakes, which we have, and it really works, as we found out when we had to slam on when we were cut up badly on the motorway

any more info you need just ask

cavaqueen


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

That sounds pretty reasonable Cavaqueen. What about breakdown cover? Is it available on such a big rig? Have you had any problems with strong winds say on a motorway.


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi again,

We have never had any problems with regards to high winds, and we have driven in very bad weather both here and in France, when we were looking to buy the fifth wheeler we made an appointment with the fifth wheel company and they took us on a test drive to show what it could do, the owner of the company drove (it is a small family run business) he chucked the thing around, he even did a u turn that we could never have done in our previous motorhome

We have breakdown cover on the pick up, for both here and abroad, I don't think you could get cover for the fifth wheeler as it could only be towed by a truck which has the same coupling, having said that we do carry a spare wheel as it can be jacked up and changed, if we have had any problems or need advise the company have been brilliant at both helping over the phone, and when we had a couple of niggles when it was new, they fixed it there and then without an appointment

We did meet a couple at Guadamar earlier this year who had an American fifth wheeler and truck (don't ask me the make) who had a hell of a problem getting their truck fixed, it had to be shipped back to the UK as the Spanish couldn't fix it, whilst they stayed at the campsite for two months!!! eventually it was sent to an American air base in the UK and was fixed there, and the owner had to fly back to the UK to pick it up

Luckily our Nissan is not such a rare beast and can be repaired in most countries

cavaqueen


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## zaskar (Jun 6, 2005)

cavaqueen said:


> Hi again,
> 
> I don't think you could get cover for the fifth wheeler as it could only be towed by a truck which has the same coupling, cavaqueen


You see, this is the bit that would scare the hell outa me! 8O 
There you are, pootling along in the middle of nowhere, enjoying the scenery.........and the truck bales out! Whatta you do, just unhook the 5ver and dump it on the side in the middle of nowhere whilst a tow truck dispapears down the road with the Nissan on the back!? 8O

Do the American 5vers / British 5vers / British Artics all use a different type / diameter pin?
I've see a yank 5ver at Tatton Park show which was towed by a Ford Cargo British built truck. What did they do, change the pin on the front of the 5ver or perhaps the receptacle on the back of the truck?


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks for all that info cavaqueen I'm liking it even more. As Zaskar says the breakdown element is / seems to be the one major worry whilst touring. If you use a european type truck then your not going to have a problem anywhere getting it fixed. Its obviously wise to carry spare wheels. If the truck broke down there are usually breakdown trucks that could tow the whole rig to a place of safety off the road. Maybe the idea especially on foreign trips would be to travel in pairs or a small group. That way theres always a spare tow vehicle to get to a campsite or something. Cavaqueen, have you checked out all the breakdown companys? If you think about it caravan companies winch their vans onto low loaders they dont very often tow them, a fiver isnt that heavy they would probably do the same in a breakdown situation.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Tony,

5th wheelers are an attractive concept for motorhome use when retired; at least I think so anyway. The difficulty in UK/Europe is the dearth of practical UK/European designs. If a Fifthwheelco offering is ideal for anyone, then lucky them. More competition would be nice; even if the layout suits I think they are overpriced and there are other shortfalls, at least for me.

I'm bound to upset owners/fans, but I have also yet to see a US offering that passes muster on weight, build quality and decor.

There's a business opportunity for someone.

Dave


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## 100251 (Jul 28, 2006)

*5th wheelers*

This will be my next move I think.
Can I ask opinions concerning need for 4 wheel drive on the towing vehicle? Cavaqueen mentioned a Nissan. I have seen Mazda pickup truck with 2200 turbo diesel and crewcab. I would think that adequate and civilised for local driving.
I dislike 4 wheel drive for fuel economy, poor lock and general running costs reasons.
I always prefer a good winch.
Do advantages of 4 wheel drive outweigh my snags in practice? 
Regards
Skywriter


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

My reaction is that if there is any perceived need for 4 wheel drive, you are pulling far too much weight for UK/European use.

Dave


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi I think the yanks use a 2" pin ours are 50mm, we saw quite a few in France recently all being pulled by Gypsy's using a variety of trucks, guy on another site said some sites will not accept them because of this.

Could be they are changing from double axle caravans to 5vers.

Olley


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

I believe the fifthwheelco offering is about £40-45k + a Nissan Navara about £20k depending on spec. For that you have 175 bhp, 4 wheel drive, and more space than an 8 metre A class motorhome thanks to the slide out. Not really overpriced for what you get.

[/quote]I dislike 4 wheel drive for fuel economy, poor lock and general running costs reasons.


> I believe the latest pick ups from Nissan/Mitsubishi etc use 2 wheel drive most of the time with 4 wheel drive either selectable or automatically kicking in when required.
> 
> Trevor


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I was very interested at Shepton Mallett to see the Welsh Fithwheel company, good value for money and if you buy a secondhand Navara they will modify for about 2K, you could save 10K.
Modification is to fit the 5th wheel coupling, fit air compressor to engine for the proper legal braking system and wire for rear lights.

I might even put my RV on the market and see what happens

Loddy


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## cavaqueen (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi once again,

With regards to the four wheel drive, we hardly ever use it, only do if we get stuck on a field.

The reason we purchased the Nissan Navara is because it was awarded pick up of the year at that time, the Izuzu is also suitable for towing our type of fifth wheeler.

Our van did not cost 42k, that is for the Celtic Rambler, (larger and has 2 slide outs), ours cost around 32k with the air suspension, and 15.5k for the truck with the fifth wheel coupling, air brakes and air suspension. If you consider the fact that you don't need a second car sitting at home, it actually works out cheaper than a lot of motor homes

cavaqueen


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

With most decent 4 wheel drives ( not the chelsea tractor posy types) you have the option to just use 4 wheel drive when and if you need it. I keep an old shogun purely to pursue my hobby in and its caked in proper mud & cow dooberry most of the time.
If I bought a fith wheeler I would be able to get rid of four other vehicles, My RV that we live in, the Bessacarr that we travel away in, my four wheel drive plus the wifes small vauxhall which we A frame behind the Bessacarr. On second thoughts no we'd keep the wifes car cos theres no way I'm ferrying her around shopping when I can be out in the fields metal detecting.

I have been looking at the Celtic Rambler as the ideal full timing van. I was a bit put off by all the Extras that are available, quite expensively, some of which you might expect to be in the 45 k price.
Has anybody had any experience of the fivers that Calder leisure sell? Their top range models 
seem a lot cheaper.


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