# £14m new police HQ stalled by an endangered newt



## prof20

£14m new police HQ stalled by an endangered newt found hibernating on the site.

What are your views on this? Is the law an ass in this case? Where do you draw the line?

One newt? There could be more probably.

Surely if it is hibernating it could be moved to another known habitat of the same species without endangering it further, and a search made of the locale to make sure no others are put at risk.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ered-newt-hibernating-site.html#ixzz2KQ1gPZXJ

Roger


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## Pudsey_Bear

Sorry but I have to side with the newt Roger, I no more want to hold up progress than the next man, and have been known to hug the odd tree if it has nice limbs.

We cannot run roughshod over the flora and fauna of this planet, are there not enough species and their habitats destroyed already.

We seem to think we own the place but most if not all of these animals etc were here thousands or even millions of years before us, we should rightly give way to them, we might even learn something.

Ooh I came over all green then  just call me hulk.


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## 747

I live not too far away and know the area fairly well.

There are very few sites nowadays for these Newts and they should be valued.

It should be noted that the old Police HQ will be sold for new housing, the finance will probably be crucial and there may even be penalty clauses for late stage delivery.

There is nothing better than seeing a bunch of burly Coppers defeated by a little newt. :lol:


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## prof20

747 said:


> I live not too far away and know the area fairly well.
> 
> There is nothing better than seeing a bunch of burly Coppers defeated by a little newt. :lol:


(Off my own topic and I apologise)

Less of the 'burly' bit 747 - I know a few policewomen who would be upset by that - on second thoughts I also know a few who would be flattered!

Roger


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## aldra

I'm with the newts

Police HQ are 10 a penny

I want my Gchildren and GreatGchildren to know about existing wildlife 
Not a list of creatures that are extinct, we have enough of those already

Aldra


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## GEMMY

With the rest of the world laughing, wait for the newts, bats, etc. they find on the route of Hs2. :wink: 

tony


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## prof20

So far all with the newts, and that is a good thing but the worrying thing is that the building works are apparently suspended until May.

What happens then? Do the bulldozers go in?


I am actually with the newts, my comment about moving them was to forestall what I envisaged as the inevitable conclusion.


I used to catch them as a lad- nowadays I would probably find myself in court!

Roger


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## Penquin

Habitats are easily damaged by man's actions - often unwittingly, such damage can make it impossible for the animals and plants to survive in that area.

I am with the newt too....

One example which we have all done I am sure......

you are on a rocky beach and decide to look underneath a rock for what is living there.... :? 

so you turn the rock over....  

but forget to turn it back afterwards as you move off to look at another exciting object... 8O 

the animals and plants on the first rock are unlikely to survive - those on the top surface are adapted to live there and cannot survive underneath, those from the underside surface can only survive there and will die if exposed to the different conditions of the (new) top surface.....  

OK only a small example but it is just to show how delicate living organisms are as regards where they can live...

so I am with leaving the newts alone - there have been examples where specially trained and licensed people have successfully moved them to a new area, but that has to be done at the right time of the year (they are about to start their breeding activities and will lay spawn amongst the weeds - if that is disturbed all of the eggs will die...  

Let the police wait - it's not going to make a major difference to them overall..... :lol: 

Dave


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## davesport

Can't they go round and taser the thing :lol: 

Another vote for here for the wildlife  

D.


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## raynipper

I came to the conclusion that there is a secret newt farm where you can buy endangered species on the black market, for the sole purpose of delaying or even halting unwanted building developments.
No one bothers to look for newts if no one cares about a build, and if someone cares about a build, they will find newts if it kills em!!!

Ray.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

There are far too many brown field sites just waiting to be utilised. Seveal hundred yards from me there is a proposed developement on 72 acres. Less than a mile away is a derelect coal mine. A demolished glass bulb factory that could all accomodate the proposed site that is estimated to take 14 years to complete. Long live the newt and come on common sense.
Dave p


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## ambegayo

*Nature Watch*

I'm with Tony on this one. No wonder this country is a mess, we have just driven 60 miles from Taunton back to Poole (different routes) and seen nothing but field, fields, woods and more fields oh and odd hedge, hundreds of trees etc. Europe takes no notice of conservation - they have so much of the above that it would not have to foreces to monitor it anyway. Yes we take everything thrown at us including newts,bodgers and every stray european that knows they can get free housing, free benefit and free nhs. Don't ask them if they will help care cor our newts.
Wakey Wakey :roll: :roll:


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## Penquin

raynipper said:


> I came to the conclusion that there is a secret newt farm where you can buy endangered species on the black market, for the sole purpose of delaying or even halting unwanted building developments.
> No one bothers to look for newts if no one cares about a build, and if someone cares about a build, they will find newts if it kills em!!!
> 
> Ray.


Much as I like the thought of "rent a newt" it is pure fiction.......

before any building work is tackled now an "Environmental Assessment" must be made this will include looking at, and listing, the flora and fauna of the proposed site.

The survey has to be done by a reputable organisation (the CC recently had ALL of their Club Sites assessed by professionals - much to their surprise as it restricted what they could do with some sites).

Most are undertaken by University research teams who have to use standardised sampling techniques to establish the size of any population of animals - a single specimen would NOT inhibit development but a breeding pair might well do so.......

There is very clear evidence of what happens when species are lost - sometimes this evidence takes several hundred years to become apparent (e.g Madagascar and the loss of the Dodo (_Raphus cucullatus_) at the end of the 17th Century, it has now become debated that one species of tree - the so called Dodo tree (_Sideroxylon grandiflorum_) is unable to germinate seeds since they require passage through the digestive tract of the now extinct Dodo to stimulate that germination. So there are no examples of that tree younger than 300 years......... It has recently been discovered (2004) that it is possible to germinate the seeds using turkeys as a substitute for the Dodo and possibly by mechanical abrasion, previous to that research there were only 13 trees left alive.....

So species removal is a serious problem - it is estimated that between 10,000 and 50,000 become extinct each year but the actual figure is impossible to calculate since we have more idea about how many stars there are than how many species...... In a recent survey (1980) in Panama of 19 trees and the insects living on them, of the 1200 different species 80% were unknown to science..... 8O

So there is concern about species being endangered - the list for the UK is quite lengthy of organisms at risk of becoming extinct - it is believed that 500 species have become extinct in England in the last 200 years....

Those most severely at risk at present include;

Red squirrel
Northern bluefin tuna
Natterjack toad
Common skate
Alpine foxtail
Kittiwake
Grey plover
Shrill carder bumblebee

and others such as the Corncrake used to be "so widespread in Britain that people could not sleep at night" and are now so rare that most people will never see one in the wild. (Source; Natural England Report).

So concerns about this species of Newt (The Great Crested Newt I believe) are genuine and interfering with a site where they live is a criminal offence liable to a fine of up to £5,000 and or 6 months imprisonment FOR EACH NEWT DESTROYED OR INJURED.

_The great crested newt and natterjack toad are fully protected under Section 9 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (by way of their inclusion in Schedule 5) and the Conservation (Natural Habitats &c.) Regulations 1994 (which gives protection to species listed in Annex IVa of the EC Habitats Directive 1992)._

Environmental Protection is a serious business - so the Police could have found themselves liable for arrest and detention...... :lol: :lol:

Now that would have been interesting...... :lol:

Dave


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## 747

Well they went ahead and built Sellafield knowing fine well that they were putting the Natterjack Toads at risk. The Toads got the last laugh. They are now 6 feet long, glow in the dark and terrorise Cumbria. :lol:


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## GEMMY

With THREE heads as Mr BURN'S pool. :lol: 

tony


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## Penquin

747 said:


> Well they went ahead and built Sellafield knowing fine well that they were putting the Natterjack Toads at risk. The Toads got the last laugh. They are now 6 feet long, glow in the dark and terrorise Cumbria. :lol:


That was originally an ROF station ROF Drigg and began in 1947 to produce nuclear material (Windscale) it later changed names and ownership through UKAEA to BNFL and then to Sellafield Ltd.

All of the planning took place long before the Wildlife and Countryside Act so they did not have to give any consideration to such problems....

If there were plans to build a new reactor there now then such things could prove to be a disabling factor unless the Government intervened (which they have done before to remove obstacles to the path they have chosen)

Maybe that would be the quickest way for Stanner to stop such things - "find some Great Crested Newts and import them onto the site" (quietly as it is illegal to touch them and at £5k a touch that could be very expensive if you destroyed 1,000 eggs......) That might make your eyes water and would stop anyone using their MH for a few years..... :lol:

But the visitors centre shop is the only place I know of where you can buy six-fingered gloves off the shelf..... (useful for at least one footballer and one Bond girl - you can do your research for the names :lol: :lol: )

Dave


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## valphil

If its a dark night , and its me or the newt , you KNOW how its going down :x


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## greygit

Aren't the police becoming an endangered species as well?


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## icer

Hmmm 

A market for the GCN!! 

Where I live on the Low Weald, they seem to be everywhere. Perhaps we could export them to other areas and let everyone enjoy the little critters. 
To do anything round here near a pond or boggy area you have to do a survey. 
It is quite extraordinary the hoops you have to jump through to protect them. 

Legislative contex.. 

Although GKN are regularly encountered throughout much of lowland England and Wales, the UK holds a large percentage of the worlds population of the species. As such the UK has an international obligation to conserve the species and it receives full protection under domestic and European legislation. 


Near where I live a well known food retailer wanted to create a supermarket on existing brownfield and use a piece of boggy scrubland to make a carpark. Just the Ecological survey and proposals ran to 119 pages with well thought out protection. We still wait. 

Ian


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## 747

icer said:


> Near where I live a well known food retailer wanted to create a supermarket on existing brownfield and use a piece of boggy scrubland to make a carpark.Ian


You forgot to include the name of this well known purveyor of horsemeat. :lol:


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## icer

747

You are 100% correct

Ian


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