# Swift by name but not by nature.



## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

I'd be interested to know how quickly Swift have supplied parts necessary for fixing any problems on your vehicles.

Which is a round about way of saying that I think they take too long. 

The first set of problems I had back in 2007 when the vehicle was new and the bed broke after its second use, took over 3 months to get the parts to the dealer.

I'm now in another round of problems that need fixing and their Engineer made his visit to me on Sep 9th 2008 and identified the problems. As of today the dealer is still awaiting delivery of the last part in a series of 15 faults that need fixing.

Three months is excessive to me even though none of the current issues are stopping me from using the MH if I wanted to.

Colin


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

Colin - but what if they did - much too long to be off the road, especially with the devaluation these vehicles get.....but it seems to be a thing with ALL manufacturers, they none of them really seem to keep an adequate supply of parts for emergencies when needed - OR - could it be the dealers, are tardy in ordering, or maybe they have to pay up front and don't have the funds....would be interesting to know where the faults do actually lie.

Carol (who has had problems like this with Hymer before)


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

I am given to understand that in the MH industry it is not the case that the converter carries stock for warranty replacements. The original supplier of the parts deals with the claim, usually directly with the dealer. The converter is just a sort of go-between.

This is not just a Swift thing and I really don't pretend to understand why this is the case, but it just seems to be the way the industry deals with things. I can see from the converter's point of view it saves a lot of hassle, time and money.   

My only advice is to make yourself an irritation with the dealer so he in turn does the same thing to the supplier of the parts. It's not a lot of use contacting the converter as he has passed it on to the supplier of the component and the dealer to resolve.

I think this may also explain why some dealers seem to be able to get the job done quicker than others. It depends on how much time they devote to chasing people.

This is my understanding so if anyone knows any different, please shoot me down.

btw, Happy New Year to all you Guys and Gals :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We have experienced delays with Swift in the past, or at least it was attibuted to Swift by the dealer.

After 3 months and some direct contact we discovered the parts had never been ordered "due to our former wokshop manager overlooking it", so when it was ordered it arrived with 7 days.

It is VERY easy to blame the manufacturer but is not always thier fault.

It probably depends on what the parts actually are; some may come "off the shelf" others may need to be fabricated when possible so there may be differences in availability.

I suspect Swift are better than most since they monitor this forum and generally respond positively to points raised.

But then my daughter's new Citroen car has needed several parts and the dealer NEVER has them in stock and "can't order them till next week". Perhaps the whole automotive industry has a similar ethos?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Had the same problems with a Toyota car (new). power steering rack leaked after a week.Dealer tried to get one from Toyota in Derby where they are put together,But had to wait until supplies came over on a boat about a month later.All parts at Derby were already marked for the production line.
I would imagine Swifts and all the others are the same, so it really depends on how good the individual companies deal with supplying to dealers.

cabby


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

In this instance this is clearly a Swift problem....and please note this is a Warranty Claim.

Their Engineer made his visit on Sep 9th 2008 and went away with the action to arrange for all parts to be sent to my nearest dealer. The dealer has kept me informed of the slow dribble of parts to them.

According to Swift in a letter to me some time back, there is an expectation on their part that problems will occur within the initial ownership period - however long that is!! It is also stated that this is why they have a dealer network - a rather loose network at that. If this is their expectation then they should back this up with an adequate supply of spare parts.

Colin


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Your contract is with the dealer and no-one else.
Make it THEIR problem.

After a reasonable waiting period - say a couple of weeks, send them a letter, recorded delivery, stating that you require the problem to be fixed and that "time was of the essence" in this matter.
Give them a further reasonable time to fix it i.e. another couple of weeks and then start proceedings with the small claims court.

Guarantee that will get their attention.


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Please read my previous post. 

Swift agreed to handle this directly after much pushing by myself. They diagnosed the problems and the parts needed. They said they would supply them directly to the dealer. All the dealer needed to do was to receive the parts on the advice from Swift and fit them.

It is not the dealers problem it is Swift's.

Colin


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> and then start proceedings with the small claims court.


But claim for what?

Colin is waiting for his vehicle to be fixed. It's not as if he can get someone else to supply the parts & then claim them from Swift through the Court.

I can't see that the Small Claim Court is relevant here at all.

Whjilst you say it's a Dealers issue, there's many on here who have gone to Swift direct via MHF & apparently had some success. Swift owners on here have praised Swift for this.

Why shouldn't Pixelpusher try the same route?


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

This has always been typical of the supply problem within the caravan industry and as most motorhome converters have come from the caravan industry they have followed the same service level.
Six weeks has always been seen as a minimum period for delivery and often up to six months. 
For converter specific parts, such as body trim and bumpers as well as furniture, the delay is unacceptable. For parts for heaters, cookers, toilets etc there should be no delay at all.
Unfortunately the entire leisure industry is still being run as if it were a cottage industry. Trouble is that it is now a multi-billion pound international cottage industry.
Gerry


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Pixelpusher said:


> Please read my previous post.
> 
> Swift agreed to handle this directly after much pushing by myself. They diagnosed the problems and the parts needed. They said they would supply them directly to the dealer. All the dealer needed to do was to receive the parts on the advice from Swift and fit them.
> 
> ...


Colin,I am sorry you have had this problem.I have asked for an explaination and I will post our response if we are too blame I will say so.Peter.


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you Peter, one of your young ladies is already looking into this I hope.

Have a good New Year

Colin


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Pixelpusher said:


> Thank you Peter, one of your young ladies is already looking into this I hope.
> 
> Have a good New Year
> 
> Colin


I need to get you satisfied first!! Peter.


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Peter....

I just had an email from Kerry who says the part is due into you by the 6th Jan. Previous emails indicated end of Nov 2008.

Thxs
Colin


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

*Reply*



Pixelpusher said:


> Thank you Peter, one of your young ladies is already looking into this I hope.
> 
> Have a good New Year
> 
> Colin


Hello Colin

The rest of the parts were despatched in November. This last part has taken too long to be sent out to get your issues resolved. I am sorry for this.

We do not think this is acceptable either and are looking into the areas of our business that has caused this delay.

As you know, we expect to receive it from our supplier tomorrow and will get it out to your dealer immediately.

Regards
Kath


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you, Kath....

The dealer also called me as he'd heard from you as well. I'd better go and clear the snow off the MH in preparation for the trip to the dealer  

Colin


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Seems as though this has been resolved by Swift now. 

Although it has taken too long to get the parts at least Swift have said so and have now got things moving. That gives me some confidence with Swift. 

How many other manufactures would do this? 


Richard...


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> How many other manufactures would do this?


Well some other manufacturers are members on mhf, albeit usually with pseudonyms / hidden aliases  but none of them have the customer service that Swift offers of answering queries in this fashion, i would imagine its quite time and resource intensive also.

With today's diminishing economy any businesses who wish to thrive better take heed of this approach as distinguishing features such as this will ensure some companies get through this recession whereas others ......................


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

With today's diminishing economy any businesses who wish to thrive better take heed of this approach as distinguishing features such as this will ensure some companies get through this recession whereas others ........


> That is one of the reasons why we are about to buy a Swift group M/H. We were also conciderig an Autotrail. But the back up from Swift is moving us towards one of there M/H's
> 
> Richard...
> 
> PS Nuke I hope you Swift is doing more than 7.28 MPG? I will need to get saving for Derv


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

If the product was more reliable in the first place then the demands on after sales service would be less. In my opinion you should not judge a company by how well it fixes problems but by how many problems it has to fix.

Its an accepted fact that it cost more to put quality right after something has shipped than to do it right first time....for both user and supplier.

Colin


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

GerryD said:


> This has always been typical of the supply problem within the caravan industry and as most motorhome converters have come from the caravan industry they have followed the same service level.
> Six weeks has always been seen as a minimum period for delivery and often up to six months.
> For converter specific parts, such as body trim and bumpers as well as furniture, the delay is unacceptable. For parts for heaters, cookers, toilets etc there should be no delay at all.
> Unfortunately the entire leisure industry is still being run as if it were a cottage industry. Trouble is that it is now a multi-billion pound international cottage industry.
> Gerry


I can only agree with Gerry, The industry standard of a min of six to eight weeks for spares delivery breeds lethargy. In my experience dealers are not looking to chase their suppliers on a daily basis being quite content to wait for the six to eight weeks to pass before showing any interest. 
Not all dealers of course just the ones I have dealt with!! 
Roger


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## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

The following is a copy of my post of 4th May 2006 which shows that not all dealers/suppliers are the same.

"_We are all very quick to criticize when we get bad service. However I would like to compliment both Marquis-Devon and Autotrail for some exceptional service.

I took my Cheyenne in to Marquis on Tuesday afternoon for what I thought would be several minor adjustments however it resulted in them having to order a new door for the bathroom and a new offside rear window. Imagine my surprise at receiving a telephone call from them this afternoon to book the M/H in as the parts had come through (in less than 48 hours)"_

I have also since then phoned Autotrail to get several parts and they have sent them to me by next post.

I therefore have no complaints with them as the service which I have received to my mind has been exceptional in comparison to the experience others appear to have had with their suppliers/dealers.

Brian


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Pixelpusher said:


> If the product was more reliable in the first place then the demands on after sales service would be less. In my opinion you should not judge a company by how well it fixes problems but by how many problems it has to fix.
> 
> Its an accepted fact that it cost more to put quality right after something has shipped than to do it right first time....for both user and supplier.
> 
> Colin


Colin,I totally agree but if I could fix it like that I would! We are not stupid but buying and building in Quality is not easy which is why I participate on the forum because it helps me greatly to get the feedback needed to plan into product design and also how we structure the business model.In times like this it is very sad that we have to make cutbacks and redundancies but it is also the right time to restructure the business and teardown some of the old fashioned ways of doing things this means blockages to progress are removed and a new management structure is built we will discuss these subjects when we meet on the 20th. Peter.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Colin- credit to you for openly criticising Swift like that

Swift/Peter -at least equal credit for taking it on the chin and openly responding


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## Lonewolf (Nov 7, 2007)

SwiftGroup said:


> Pixelpusher said:
> 
> 
> > If the product was more reliable in the first place then the demands on after sales service would be less. In my opinion you should not judge a company by how well it fixes problems but by how many problems it has to fix.
> ...


Hi Peter,

Glad to hear you are having a business restructuring meeting on the 20th and you participate in this forum to get feedback so as you can improve your company's business model.

Rather than cause you embarrassment on this website.I have forwarded you by personal e-mail my correspondence with your customer relations department during December.

I am still awaiting a acceptable response to my original complaint.

I look forward to your comments.

Kind regards,
Lonewolf.


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## 111728 (Apr 28, 2008)

Seems like another version of a similiar post. I am with you on this pixelpusher, but as quoted numerous times, it is more to do with volumes and model frequency.

Expand; Swift may be the largest UK convertor but their annual production is less the a car manufacturer makes in 'one' day. But the Swift group (with caravans, statics and motorhomes) have so many different varients of models. That quality is almost an impossible task on a production line after little or small product development or testing.

I equate this industry similiar to kitchen manufacturers, I waited 4 months for incorrectly delivered doors to be made correct (german kitchen, not UK). It is the issue with long lead times between the various different model varients and the supply of compnents from component suppliers. I know you will restate- It should fail in the first instance- but has we have stated ourselves before- this is this industry, if the manufacturer has so many model varients and the frequency is varied from low for some models to average for others. They are not engineered and developed correctly and tested correctly at development stage. Not post production, or at the end of the line, or at the dealers premises for a PDI. I gues (I cannot remember) your problems were a combination of poor design and poor component failure, contributing to poor assembly issues.

I am not attacking this manufactuerer, there are a number who are much worst and their issues are swept under the carpet toing and frowing. If more time was spent on fully testing and developing the design, there would be less failure.

I just read a post about a Kontiki that the customers were extremely happy that it was fully winterised. Within the postings, it was identified that several pipes freeze from the waste outlets to the waste tank. My agruement is if this was fully tested and explored correctly in development. There would not have been a problem. I applaud swift for acknowledging they will investigate and try to resolve the issue. But I am shouting out loud-why did they not do that it the first instance.

Not in a cold room for 24 hours or even 48 hours, but take a series of different models to Finland and test them with live in standards for 14 days. No... They will not do that... we can do that for them!!

We are the development engineers, we are the mules who find there problems. Then we will thank them for helping resolve it afterwards.

Which is also your agruement (hence I am with you). What Swift ( and all the others, even continental convertors) think is true testing and product development is a laughing stock. We are the unpaid engineers writing the product reports.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

saracen said:


> Seems like another version of a similiar post. I am with you on this pixelpusher, but as quoted numerous times, it is more to do with volumes and model frequency.
> 
> Expand; Swift may be the largest UK convertor but their annual production is less the a car manufacturer makes in 'one' day. But the Swift group (with caravans, statics and motorhomes) have so many different varients of models. That quality is almost an impossible task on a production line after little or small product development or testing.
> 
> ...


Saracen,

Yes and no (actually no and yes!)

Yes SOME manufacturers use their customers customer as a product testing facility. That's just p-poor. Haven't they heard of focus groups? That would be a start.

No, long order lead times are not a function of component supply from 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers. It's a function of 1 of 2 things: -

1. A total disregard for the needs of the end user in order to maximise profit.

2. P-poor management.

There are no 2 points in mainland Europe that cannot be connected by road in 2 or exceptionally 3 days. Modern logistics networks run 24/7.

Motorhome manufacturers don't operate on true Just in time principles as the majority do not have sufficient volume production to justify it.

Therefore, parts for current production vehicles are in stock at the factory, otherwise the production line would stop. So why can't they supply the dealers?

1. Dealer forgot to order
2. Dealer too busy selling vans to be bothered with warranty work
3. Dealer forgot to order.
4. Dealer waiting on a minimum quantity of parts to minimise delivery charges
5. Manufacturer can't control stock levels at the factory.

The list goes on, but you get the jist - these are not reasons they are excuses for ppoor performance.

And before i get a hail of abuse, I'm not referring to any one manufacturer or dealer!

There are those who give good service and they should be rewarded with increased sales.

If an end user is PREPARED to wait 4 months for a part, they are as much to blame as the supplier, who will have no motivation to improve things if they're not put under pressure.

Say, a customer needs a new plastic sink for their van.

M/H converter doesn't keep stock of them, because customer is happy to wait 4 months

Sink manufacturer has no stock for same reason

Plastic sheet manufacturer ditto

etc etc

Until finally, BP has no oil stock because customer is happy to wait 4 months......

Back to the customer....

He orders sink at 9AM. Dealer phones M/H converter 9.05AM. At 9.10AM they phone sink guys who immediately phone the plastic sheet supplier etc etc til at 9.30, BP gets a fax for a barrell of Oil.

This is duly despatched and processsed into polymer which arrives at Plastic sheet supplier next morning (Day 2). They make up a sheet and send it down to the sink guy.

Take a breath, it's now Wednesday, they press sink in morning and dispatch it direct to M/H dealer and invoice the M/H manufacturer.

Motorhome owner gets his sink on thursday.

This is called a supply chain, but at each point in it, the company holds stock sufficient to cope with demand. This is an 'agile ' supply chain.

So actually, when ordering a sink, it comes from the Tier 1 suppliers stock holding that he carries to satisfy both normal demand and seasonal spikes.

The answer is to take a 'Supply Chain' approach to managing the business. This is what Tesco does, in fct they regard themselves as Supply Chain Managers, not Retailers. And they carry far more products than a M/H manufacturer.

Nearly there.

So when your dealer tells you that the bit you need for your 2 month old van will take 4 months to come because the factory is out of stock, tell him he's either a fool or a liar. The real reason is either he, or his suppliers don't actually give a stuff about you.

Rant over.

David


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Wow! A fair bit on those Posts to get your teeth into Peter! Not looking for some "supply chain consultants are you?

(and not necessarily said in jest)

:wink:


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Autotrail - service? What planet are you on?

My Autotrail had 10 stress fractures identified on it by Camper UK last June - still waiting. Going in for new roof light tommorow at Camper UK - waited about 8 weeks.

No wonder they seem to be going down the tubes.

As I have said before, I'll probably have a Swift next time - it may well start to fall to pieces as you drive it down the road but at least they'll mend it.

As soon as I get a decent trade in price, probably at one of the shows later in the year I'll swap.


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Telbell said:


> Wow! A fair bit on those Posts to get your teeth into Peter! Not looking for some "supply chain consultants are you?
> 
> (and not necessarily said in jest)
> 
> :wink:


I didnt respond last night but slept on it! First of all you can see why you get very little response from the trade! I give honest answers and opinions I mostly get objective answers? I dont totally disagree with the comments and we are having our first 'Focus' group of a kind on the 20th. Both the Swift Sales Director and Autocruise Sales Managers were out over the break in motorhomes I myself use one but certainly we can be criticised for maybe not testing our product in a real 'Artic' environment. Many of our customers are quite happy to give us feedback judging by the emails letters we get with constructive advice on usage materials used etc. We buy specific motorhome parts used by all the major manufactuerers Nord who supply the control panels do so for many other companies and often we are not aware of problems even though we do our own testing,exterior doors again supplied by a reputable manufacturer who constantly let us down despite repeated promises we have now changed to Hartel who supply Hymer etc but they have not been problem free.We score our own goals as well which is frustrating! I am happy to enter into discussion on this forum and am open to fair criticism. I have been in the caravan/Motorhome industry for 40years so we wust do something right????? I will await the onslaught???Peter.


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## 111728 (Apr 28, 2008)

Dave

If you were a consultant like Sir John Harvey Jones, you would be advising all the convertors, component suppliers not to keep stock any of the components in a large warehouse costing money. You totally missed the point in your 'rant'. It is the fact they have so many different model varients, what doors should they stock, which sinks should they stock. In your opinion all of them. That would result in finaniacl failure. The issue is the number of uncommon parts and the variation of product models for such a low volume produced. Added to the fact the manufacturers have so many different models they cannot fully test and develop them. We do. 

Sorry to argue with you, but your opinion that they do not care and should be able to deliver the part is fine if they make 6 to 8 different models and layouts in total and make hundreds of them daily. Then the component supplier will be sending them daily or weekly deliveries. More to the point the raw stock and manufacturers of the component would as well. Which in turn reduces the delay in the supply of the part.

If I had a model that was only made twice a year in batches of 25 or 30. ie 60 per annum maximum. Which had a failure of a unit piece of furniture or part specific only to that model. I know (however much you disagree or rant) The compnent supplier or manufacturer or convertor will not be able to supply the part for at least 3 to 4 months. Regardless whether it is acceptable or not (that is not my issue- even though it is disgusting) It is the fact that when the manufacturer orders 30 parts for the next batch, they will order 31. The 1 being my part! That's the facts. Thats how it is! Hence a 4 month wait.

Solution- less manufacturers- fewer manufacturers making much more bigger batches more frequently. Will it happen in this market. Never. Problem- ongoing. Posts about this- continuous. People using the blame culture- every week. It is a manufacturing fact and get your head around it. Thats why you hear so many people complaining all the time.


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

I think its fair to state that, my own personal problems aside, all the comments apply across the MH industry (as well as others). So continuing the debate please note that this is now not Swift specific from my perspective

1. Low Volume production. Well the end item might be low volume but from the little I've seen the majority of MHs use the same component parts, which must be produced in large quantities. Any proprietary parts may be low volume but are under control of the manufacturer.

2. Do MH manufacturers actually track and measure faults and failures? Doing this helps build up records so that constantly failing parts can be designed out or the less attractive option, adequate spares holding can be forecast. (It actually begs the question of why product is still shipped with known faults - FIAT Judder for one, dodgy control panels for another -well we can all guess why)

It would also help them build up a picture of their quality processes. Nothing brings home the truth more than the financial cost of Non-Conformance v. Conformance to requirements - the definition of quality.

3. I'm still of the opinion that the MH manufacturer is let down by the overal dealer network - or lack of. Its also my own opinion that sometimes this suits the MH manufacturer who can just - fire and forget the product. If so its just burying their heads in the sand.

Colin


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

A


Pixelpusher said:


> I think its fair to state that, my own personal problems aside, all the comments apply across the MH industry (as well as others). So continuing the debate please note that this is now not Swift specific from my perspective
> 
> 1. Low Volume production. Well the end item might be low volume but from the little I've seen the majority of MHs use the same component parts, which must be produced in large quantities. Any proprietary parts may be low volume but are under control of the manufacturer.
> 
> ...


All these points will be open for discussion Colin on the 20th.We do measure our parts supplied and how long they take however a small percentage take longer often because they get lost in the system like you last item for you which there was no part number because it was a special one off. We run a very good company and by anyones standards compares favourably with our European competitors who have up until recently a favourable currency that has made them look cheap in comparison to a Uk manufactered product but now do the price comparison?We believe we buy quality parts for example the locker door handles which some people are finding are sticking they are metal not plastic and are bought from Fennell a high quality manufacturer the same handle can be found on many German moorhomes! Peter.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

saracen said:


> Dave
> 
> If you were a consultant like Sir John Harvey Jones, you would be advising all the convertors, component suppliers not to keep stock any of the components in a large warehouse costing money. You totally missed the point in your 'rant'. It is the fact they have so many different model varients, what doors should they stock, which sinks should they stock. In your opinion all of them. That would result in finaniacl failure. The issue is the number of uncommon parts and the variation of product models for such a low volume produced. Added to the fact the manufacturers have so many different models they cannot fully test and develop them. We do.
> 
> ...


Saracen,

It's not an argument, it's a debate 

Were I a consultant like John Harvey Jones, I'd be proof of life after death!

I absolutely agree about warehouses full of low volume parts. In my post, I thought I had made it clear that I was talking about current production models, not obsolete ones.

From the motorhome ranges I have seen, there is a large parts 'commonality' across a model range, even down to furniture which uses a modular approach. So the number of model-specific parts is limited in relation to the overall number of components.

Component suppliers are a different story. Truma, Alde, Smev, Thetford, Harte, CBE, Spinflo, manufacture in volume for a large number of customers. They are able to maintain a stock -holding, even for obsolete models. The issue is management of the delivery process.

In the hypothetical example, the delays due to data transfer and delivery lead time have been removed. The point, however, is that it doesn't take months to send a part from Holland to the UK, it takes hours.

There are basically two types of supply chain - Lean and Agile.

In a lean supply chain, inventory is minimised and an efficient just-in-time process ensures the ready availability of parts.

Agile supply chains rely on larger inventories, for example when demand is not linear, in order to provide a satisfactory Customer Service Level.

The trade off that a manufacturer determines is between inventory carrying costs and their ability to supply the customer at an 'acceptable' level.

Back to motorhomes!

Waiting for parts for 4 months may be acceptable to most customers. For me, it isn't. The posts I have read appear to relate to commonly used (and available) parts.

Pixelpusher hit the nail on the head with his comments about component failure. The higher the failure rate, the higher the stock-holding.

I needed a part for my M/H last summer. I contacted the dealer in the UK and was told it would be several weeks before it arrived. I told them not to bother. My mate was in Germany and popped into the M/H factory and got the part Ex-stock. So the dealer's 'several weeks' was the delivery lead time? From Germany to the UK? He's having a laugh! Had I not been able to get it from the M/H manufacturer, the component supplier (Hella) quoted 7 days as it was not a UK stock part. I could have lived with that too.

The bottom line is that the M/H manufacturer makes a commercial decision as to how well they will support their customer in the event of a failure. That's fair enough, but it's also a criteria that we, as M/H buyers deserve to know.

Now about Swift.

Peter, I have made it clear in my posts that I was not referring specifically to Swift. I don't know what your particular Customer Service Level is.

It is unfortunate that things sometimes do not go according to plan, and customers then feel the need to tell their story on the forum. That's life. It's how a problem is dealt with subsequently that matters.

The fact that we get 'so little response from the trade' is perhaps more to do with the willingness (or boldness) to engage in open, transparent discussion. Have Swift gained more than they've lost due to participation in this Forum?

David


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Peter, QUOTE-We believe we buy quality parts for example the locker door handles which some people are finding are sticking they are metal not plastic and are bought from Fennell a high quality manufacturer the same handle can be found on many German motor homes! Peter.

Even though they may be considered high quality are the offending catches a new variety as opposed to some you have been using for a few years problem free ?

The same thing happens in the window industry with locks / handles,every so often they bring out new - cheaper handles - and because of the said savings people buy them only to find that 3 mths down the line they are broken and have to be replaced cancelling out any saving.I always tell them to use the handles etc, that have been used for the last year problem free until the new product has become an old product (now tried and tested elsewhere)problem free. :lol: 

I know that you have to keep up with new developments and do not have a crystal ball to tell which are good and bad,so we (not me :lol: )will have to carry on trusting you will fix the problems a little bit faster :lol: 
terry
PS why not open a factory spares shop ?


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

maddie said:


> Hi Peter, QUOTE-We believe we buy quality parts for example the locker door handles which some people are finding are sticking they are metal not plastic and are bought from Fennell a high quality manufacturer the same handle can be found on many German motor homes! Peter.
> 
> Even though they may be considered high quality are the offending catches a new variety as opposed to some you have been using for a few years problem free ?
> 
> ...


Happy New Year Maddie. We have been using the catches on Kontiki's for a while without prolem so to standardise and improve we have started to fit them on all Motorhomes.Peter.


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

Peter
The suggestion from Maddie to open a factory spares shop is excellent. I know people who travel to here and own Benimar or other Spanish built MH.s visit the factory and get parts so why not Swift. It could be a good little extra business for you and will reduce the grumbles from those who have had too long to wait for parts delivery. Maybe it will keep a couple of people in full time work


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## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

C7KEN said:


> Peter
> The suggestion from Maddie to open a factory spares shop is excellent. I know people who travel to here and own Benimar or other Spanish built MH.s visit the factory and get parts so why not Swift. It could be a good little extra business for you and will reduce the grumbles from those who have had too long to wait for parts delivery. Maybe it will keep a couple of people in full time work


They can do that now!Peter.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Peter
The suggestion from Maddie to open a factory spares shop is excellent. I know people who travel to here and own Benimar or other Spanish built MH.s visit the factory and get parts so why not Swift. It could be a good little extra business for you and will reduce the grumbles from those who have had too long to wait for parts delivery. Maybe it will keep a couple of people in full time work Smile


> This would also give a potensial customer another reason to buy Swift.
> 
> Richard....


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

Peter
In that case why are they not getting in touch directly to get the parts instead of reliance on "some" dealers who appear to be lethargic. If I was waiting for a part for some time and knew that I could get it direct I would at least contact Swift to see where the delay originated from. If there was a good reason for the delay I would accept it, if it was because someone did not do their job properly I would raise the roof. I have to say that from what I read on here I would not hesitate to buy Swift because I admire people who are "hands on" and are prepared do something to sort out problems. No doubt trade will be rough for a couple of years but I hope that Swift becomes even stronger as others fail. Finally if I bought a Swift it would definately be from John Cross as thats the sort of dealer I admire


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

[/quote]They can do that now!Peter.[/quote]
:lol: So perhaps you need to tell people ? :lol: 
I am aware that when all else fails - dealer- people can get in touch via forum but remained unaware people could get parts etc via the factory direct :lol: 
terry
edit I must type faster 2 reply s while thinking / typing :lol:


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## 111728 (Apr 28, 2008)

Peter- I am now a dog with a bone.

Your comments... Sales Director and Autocruise sales manager away in a motorhome. Truthfully, what good is that, other then for them, so they can spurt to someone they have used one. Were they 2010 or 2011 prototypes, highly likely they were not. Were they current models or press fleet- highly likely.. yes.

When will you grasp that to beat your foreign competition you have to be better then them on quality of design and build. That is done in the proto type testing, which should be done fully and correctly.

You quote you have been in the industry for 40 years (well done). But when will you state that you are testing products you are building for 2012 production, probably through 2011 with six weeks prior to a product launch.

Thats the issue. The parts and assemblies and not fully tested. Because you have done it for 40 years this way and are still here may make you feel that you are doing it right. But in my opinion, if you bashed your competition because you have a proven and tested product that everyone trusts and wants to buy, you will naturally beat you competitors and grow from strength to strength.

But it appears you fall into the same trap that we must have this model because that competitor is selling some, before it has been fully tested. Which results in dissatisfied customers who may be lost to the brand. Better to have slow growth and retained customers with satisfied confidence in the product and a belief in the brand that it is quality.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

In the defence of manufacturers - I run a manufacturing business that is quite well known in it's field. We must get 2-3 calls a week from members of the public demanding to know why we haven't made/supplied/delivered their goods - despite the fact that they are not our customer. We always find that 'their' goods haven't actually been ordered by the company they are actually dealing with - either because they are waiting to have a sufficient orderbook to avoid paying carriage, cashflow, they're too busy (not getting that one much at the moment) or surprise, surprise - they forgot. 
I agree with Maddies point about tried & tested - but all manufacturers who are reliant on sourced components must have to have a % figure for breakdowns - as a rule of thumb we try & overstock by twice this amount, and obviously we hope that our internal QC procedures will catch them. We run at a (reported) 0.012 internal error & 0.0026 external error. We have on average 20-30 components per item. How many do you have Peter? :wink:


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## 111728 (Apr 28, 2008)

Kelcat- I can answer that from a factory visit-one or two of some, none of a lot. Please correct me if I am wrong. Plus a lot on order due to be made and awaiting delivery? and subsequently onto despatch to the dealer/customer.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Stock levels are not the point I'm making. 
If Swift are putting an item together with say 100 components and have a fault on every third van (& I'm not for a second saying they do - I've no idea what their figures are but I get a feeling from reading this site it's lower than that) - this still represents are fractionally small 'fail' rate that any manufacturing expert would find an acceptable cost. 
The more interesting cost analysis would be to know the criteria on which components are de-selected. i.e. if a part is only 50p & it fails the cost to Swift could be said to be 50p as it is the dealer who stands the almost definitely higher labour costs - or do Swift pay dealers for warranty work the same as in the car trade? If so there must come a point where poor quality parts are a false economy. Apart from Fiat based issues I really don't seem to get a feel from MHF that this is a case of the same errors / parts occurring (apart from the ever present PDI issue).


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## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Material costs are just one part of the overall costs associated with poor quality

As well as the labour costs of rectification there is the cost of providing a Customer Care organisation and the even harder to measure - Loss of Business, i.e those folks who wont buy the product again or recommend it to friends.

In addition the eventual recognition that a problem needs rectifying at the source can mean very expensive re-design and possible recalls. FIAT Judder as an example.

I guess I may be preaching to the converted but Quality Control isn't really about stopping faulty products being shipped. Rather there should be a Quality Assurance Process that catches potential faults and failures throughout the whole product life cycle, from Specification through to Development through to Manufacture through to Handoff and possibly beyond.

Colin


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