# Again..... tyres that don't spin on grass!



## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I have noticed that my tyres no longer grip on grass, mud or even steep hills if there is gravel . They were never great, but my on last trip to Mull 
a couple of weeks ago I noticed a big difference in the ability to climb hills without whirring like a helicopter!

My question is:
Can I put different tyres on the front to aid gripping...especially on slightly damp (dewy) grass and steep hills (with bends so you can't just welly it). The tyres have plenty of wear left....done about 20,000 miles so I do not want to shell out for 5 tyres.

If so what do you suggest....winter tyres, mud and snow, all season ....are there others?
Heeeeelp!

I really have no idea!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

If the big difference came all of a sudden, have you added, substantially, more weight to the rear of your M/H.
If so, this would have a lever effect and reduce weight and traction from the front wheels!


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

I've been very pleased with my Continental Vanco Winter 2 tyres, which are a Mud & Snow (M&S) tyre.

Much more grip and also much less road noise than my previous Michelin Camping tyres.

The campings would spin on damp grass, let alone mud or snow. The Vancos are noticeably better.

I've left them on all year - people will no doubt tell me I shouldn't, because they'll wear out quicker, but we only do around 6,000 miles per year, so I'll probably have to replace them due to age before they wear out.


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

I think it's much cheaper to park up on plastic grip mats


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

hi,

Recently debated and answered here.

I would replace all of them. And I would fit Winters.

Vredstein Snowtrac


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

It has been gradual I think. I did have extra weight in the summer (bike rack and electric bike), but not in January. It was noticably worse with the bike.

Mats don't help up hills!

Is it OK to put winter tyres on the front and keep the campers on the rear....Fiat Ducatto so Front wheel drive.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Last year I got stuck on wet grass with my Vanco Continentals. There was not much mud just wet squidgy grass. 
With little effort I managed to catapult the yellow 'get yourself off grass' plastic thingy about 20'.
A tractor was called for, he had those huge back wheels with the deep ploughing type tread. No problem at all for him to pull me out........ after his wheels had spun on the grass until they bit into mud.
Is it possible that even with studded tyres, wet grass can defeat almost any wheel? 

Alan


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi.
Just two questions,do you have four mad dogs ? Have you weighed them recently ? :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Hulltramper


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Ha ha, hulltramper...... 1 goldie 30kg and 3 springers total 48 kg = 78 kg or thereabouts, but they weren't with me.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Yes Mud and snow or winter tyres will be better in most soft conditions. I am using Toyo HO9s.

Also a change of technique can help too. The use of a higher gear (where possible) will always give better grip in any situation because it transfers more torque to the wheels.

Most vans will pull away in second gear and the electronics on modern vehicles will adjust the throttle slightly to try and stop the engine from stalling. When on slippy ground I put the van in second and without using the throttle just ease the clutch out and this is usually successful. Incidentally when mounting levelling ramps I always use first gear without any throttle input.

Whenever you get the chance practice pulling away without using any throttle.

JohnW


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

[quote="Is it possible that even with studded tyres, wet grass can defeat almost any wheel?

Alan[/quote]
No is the answer.

We had continental vanco,s on and got sick of getting stuck on wet grass. They are the worse tyres I have ever seen, you only have to look at the tread pattern to ascertain that. Don't know if they have changed the design though, I am talking about 2005 tyres.

We then changed to continental vanco winter 2 tyres. What an unbelieveable difference, they went through anything, inches of mud from a standing start, ice, snow, anything. I was beginning to think I couldn't drive until the tyres were changed, I can't emphasise enough the difference. No more tractors for us.

Morphology has fitted the best.

Paul.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Thanks, teeny,ob, but I don't think there was a consensus in that thread. LOL!


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Are you sure the tyres are okay? 20k miles seems a lot more than I get from a set of front tyres. The last ones were 18 months old and I got just short of 17k miles out of them. Replaced the front two then traded the van in 4 weeks later.... :roll: 

That is on a 6 tonne Motorhome pulling another ton as in the tow car so a fair bit of wear on those front tyres.

Don't mention the Abarth TOAD I got 8k out of the front tyres on that!


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

We don't have too much trouble on wet grass, we had two bad wet weekends last year and on both occasions we were able to pull away with no drama, but it does take some care and preparation.

First of all, don't park where you have to pull up a slope to get out.

Don't park on wet or muddy ground, no matter what you do there's a fair chance you'll get stuck, better not go there in the first place.

Try and pull away on just above tickover in second gear.

Keep the rev's down, too much power will just break the adhesion and spin the wheels. Grass has better adhesion than mud, so don't break through the top layer.

If you think you might have a problem, get help to pull away *BEFORE* you get stuck.

Last year at Nuenen in Holland we had three days of rain before it stopped, the show side is a farm, on grassed pastures. By the time everyone was on, we had 12" deep ruts in the ground where people had spun their way to wherever thet were going on the field.

One of our friends had their Renault Trafic clutch go in Rotterdam and arrived late. We towed them and their caravan through the camping field to their camping spot, just on a low tick-over and at a fairly low speed.

Yes we have a four wheel drive vehicle, but it is on regular road-biased tyres, not special mud tyres, and they had a caravan on the back and an engine and their gear in the van. We got off the site towing our 6-wheel trailer with no trouble, although things had improved a bit by then.

It is mostly driving technique than tyres, I've seen Land Rover drivers get stuck on very lightly wet ground, just by revving away and not taking care with the right foot.

Four wheel drive just gets you even further into trouble than two wheel drive! It is not the universal panacea people think it is.

Peter


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

I totally disagree.

It is mostly tyres and not driving technique.

Paul.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I avoid wet grass now if I can, but I can't avoid steep bendy hills. 

I will look at the tyres again, but at the first MOT in November there was loads of wear left.

Sounds like mud and snow or winter tyres are the way to go. 

Is there a difference or are these terms interchangeable?


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Wizzo said:


> The use of a higher gear (where possible) will always give better grip in any situation because it transfers more torque to the wheels.
> 
> JohnW


John, you're right you need to use a higher gear, but that's because it transfers *less* torque to the wheels. It's torque that causes wheels to spin & in low grip situations you need as little as you can get away with. I've even started off in third gear on occasions when I've been stuck, not in the MH though.


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

coppo said:


> I totally disagree.
> 
> It is mostly tyres and not driving technique.
> 
> Paul.


I think its a bit of both, a rubbish driver can dig in decent tyres and rubbish tyres would certainly defeat a decent driver BUT if both situations are right you will certainly appreciate the tyres.

Martin


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Wizzo said:


> Yes Mud and snow or winter tyres will be better in most soft conditions. I am using Toyo HO9s.
> 
> Also a change of technique can help too. The use of a higher gear (where possible) will always give better grip in any situation because it transfers more torque to the wheels.
> 
> ...


Yes, TOYO H09's are very good too.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Morning folks,


Sounds to me like you need more weight on the front if your skidding on black and gravel and as for mud, well once the tread is full its like driving on slicks.

norm


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Some of us remember Peterborough :wink: 

I do know how to drive my front wheel tractor and was making good progress when my back wheels sank in where someone else's vehicle had carved a trench I could not avoid..... ah well, the tractor that pulled me out was so busy pulling others out, he did not wait for a tip.

Alan


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## neilanddot (Apr 4, 2008)

2 recommendations that have come through are Vanco winter 2 tyres and H09's 
Are these both suitable for camper vans i.e. periods of standing still without giving problems to the side walls, in addition from either is there any more road noise and do they make any increase in fuel consumption, I'm expecting you to say no to fuel and marginally more to road noise, but it's as well to ask as on a long touring holiday it could be slightly annoying.
Neil


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Interesting!

One thing is certain beyond any doubt - spinning the wheels *at all* is very counter productive.

*Static *friction between two surfaces is far greater than *sliding *friction.

So - if you can pull away *without *spinning the wheels you have a far better chance of making it!

Having said that, the tread pattern and composition of the tyres is certain also to make a considerable difference. Could anyone be daft enough to argue that slicks are as good as chunky treads on wet grass or mud!! :roll:

The answer is a bit of both then . . . good driving technique combined with the most effective tyres on the driven wheels. _(Plus a handy tractor for when nothing works!! :lol: )_

Dave


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

neilanddot said:


> 2 recommendations that have come through are Vanco winter 2 tyres and H09's
> Are these both suitable for camper vans i.e. periods of standing still without giving problems to the side walls, in addition from either is there any more road noise and do they make any increase in fuel consumption, I'm expecting you to say no to fuel and marginally more to road noise, but it's as well to ask as on a long touring holiday it could be slightly annoying.
> Neil


Winter tyres will be both slightly noisier and will use slightly more fuel, that's the theory but whether or not you will notice is up for debate, the compound is softer at low temperatures so will wear slightly more in higher summer temperatures, but again unless you do high miles this might not be an issue. As for camping specific tyres to me these are a bit of a recent invention and I don't fully understand any advantage except to say that our MH had the same non camping Michelin Agilis on for 8 years and no problems. Changed now purely for age as loads of tread left, fitted Continental Vanco fourseasons but no longer available other than from dealer stock.

Martin


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