# Dumping grey water on the move



## 103279 (Mar 5, 2007)

I hope that it was no one from this forum who I saw dumping their grey water while heading north out of Dawlish at 11:30 this morning. It wasn't a leak, as it was pouring out. Didn't get the make of van but on an 03 plate. Dumping greasy foul smelling water on the road is illegal, makes a skid hazard - especially for motorcyclists - and gives us all a bad name.


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

That's just not on. Thing to do is flag them down and tell them they've got aleak. That should embarrass them


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## Zuma (Apr 29, 2006)

Why the assumption it was done on purpose?

Could have been a genuine error! :?


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## Dopeyngrumpy (May 13, 2005)

There does seem to be a lot of it about... I'm not condoning it but the real solution will be adequate legal disposal points. Until then surely the best solution for those of us who cannot connect the waste to a sewer point is to identify roadside drains that are not just a soak away and use those?

Regards

David


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I do mine when I get home. With a full tank, it takes around 10 - 12 trips back and forth with a large bucket to get it emptied down my drain.

I accept it might be different if you have to store the van.

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

theoldtrout said:


> I hope that it was no one from this forum who I saw dumping their grey water while heading north out of Dawlish at 11:30 this morning.


They'll have been on their way to Aldeburgh to empty their toilet in the sea.

G


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## larrywatters (Aug 21, 2007)

hear hear david i do agree what shall we do when the uk denies that we excide long live france


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

LARRYWATTERS - can you give us a translation please!

_hear hear david i do agree what shall we do when the uk denies that we excide long live france _

Or is it just me that can't understand it?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Grey water*

Hi

Without sounding daft, why can't the grey water just be dumped on the ground on a campsite?

I have been asked in Italy to put the water on the lawn/flower beds!

Russell


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Grey water*

Hello,

See Buses and Coaches doing it every day.

Trev.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

I dump mine by letting it dribble out whilst on the move.

Not a problem IMO. In fact it is more environmentally friendly by spreading it out .Dumping into a road gulley just sends it in one big dose into the nearest watercourse via the storm drains.

As for being greasy, others may dump gallons of chip pan oil down the sink. But ours contains water with soap and Ecover washing up liquid (and a few rice grains and peas usually)

This method was recommended to me by the dealer we bought off.

If I am at a CC site or whatever with a grey water dump, I will use it, otherwise it goes down the road

If it upsets any member of joe public, then too bad. I don't like sitting outside a pub in the summer and being surrounded by smokers, but I just have to get over it.


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## Velvettones (Jul 31, 2007)

our grey waste is soapy water (no grease)

if it goes on the road they'll be significantly cleaner, don't see the problem in it if it only trickles out, wont be severe enough to cause an accident

also don't see the problem with watering the grass for the site owner (unless theres something in there that will kill it of course)


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

*Re: Grey water*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Without sounding daft, why can't the grey water just be dumped on the ground on a campsite?
> 
> ...


Hi Russell,

What's the official C&CC line on it at sites?

Personally I think dumping it along the road is anti-social and attracts bad press for our cause and I empty mine either at the appropriate site facility or go to the little bit of trouble to drain it at home into my sparkling Wastemaster and wheel it to the drain in our road.

Andy


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

pippin said:


> LARRYWATTERS - can you give us a translation please!
> _hear hear david i do agree what shall we do when the uk denies that we excide long live france _
> Or is it just me that can't understand it?


I can't understand many posts but I'm told it is impolite to point this out. Apparently the PC answer is to empathise and/or agree with the poster's wisdom. It is supposed to make the dears feel better about themselves and is far superior to clarity of communication, courtesy and common-sense.

Dave


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## larrywatters (Aug 21, 2007)

dear pippin
my explanation is that last year we went to France and discovered the world of Aires parking  Where they have everything so no need for illegal dumping of grey waste Hope this makes it clearer lol


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## keithfw (Jul 14, 2007)

I don't think it's right to dump it on the road, either full bore or dribbling - what if a motorbike skids on it! It is never a problem to get rid of, just pull into the first layby you come to and let it go down a drain. No point in carrying it for miles as it only adds weight and costs more in fuel.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Dumping it at home is ok if you are only away for a couple of days and have the facilities to do so (our van has to park tight agaist a wall so I cant get to waste tap)

As for C&CC, they have disposal facilites, so use them.

As for wastemasters, hell can freeze over before I buy one of those things. If I am going to have one those things taking up room in my van then I might as well buy a caravan. 

Please be aware when you use CL's, wild camp and are on the move a lot, you rarely have grey water dump facilities available.


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## Velvettones (Jul 31, 2007)

we have a wastemaster from when we had a caravan - it does not come away with us though


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## framptoncottrell (Jan 6, 2006)

I think that there are two reasons not to discharge from your grey waste while on the move:

First: the general non-camping public will assume that the liquid is from your toilet and it gives campers a bad name.

Secondly: waste from showers, sinks and washbasins at home is *not* allowed to be discharged into surface run-off drains: it has to go into the sewerage system. Even biologically degradeable detergents like Ecosave are regarded as pollutants in the surface water system and can cause a lot of problems with fisheries in streams, rivers and lakes into which they eventually discharge.

As I read the Water Resources Act, 1991, allowing grey water waste onto the road could be regarded as an unregulated discharge and lead to prosecution under Section 85. The fine can be up to £20000 and/or a prison sentence of up to three months.

Is it worth it?

Dr. (musical, not medical) Roy


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Fines*



framptoncottrell said:


> I think that there are two reasons not to discharge from your grey waste while on the move:
> 
> First: the general non-camping public will assume that the liquid is from your toilet and it gives campers a bad name.
> 
> ...


In view of my earlier reply then why are so many coaches built without holding tanks and allowed to get away with dumping on the move?. Or did no one bother to read the entire postings?.

Trev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

As I think Russell has experience of coaching AND site management I suggest he's the guy that can give us good info on both situations.

Andy


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Coach-driver-dumped-sewage-in.4070967.jp

This driver didn't get away with it ! Can you imagine anyone doing this ?

Does anyone remember the days of railway carriage loos dumping as they went ? " Even as a child I can remember being a bit shocked when the reason for the " Do not use this toilet when the train is in a station " notice was explained to me.

G


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## Zuma (Apr 29, 2006)

[
As I read the Water Resources Act, 1991, allowing grey water waste onto the road could be regarded as an unregulated discharge and lead to prosecution under Section 85. The fine can be up to £20000 and/or a prison sentence of up to three months.

Is it worth it?

Dr. (musical, not medical) Roy[/quote]

I hope nobody on this forum would ever contemplate washing their motor car/motorcycle/motorhome outside their house etc!!!!


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I've never worked out what to do on CLs and other sites without proper waste water disposal. A lot of people put it down the chemical waste, but I got a lecture from someone on a CL about doing that. It seems to be where most people put it though. I'm tending to discretely water the hedge close to my van when no one is looking. It's what I'd do if it was my land, and if no one sees me do it it doesn't upset anyone who doesn't like it.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Coach-driver-dumped-sewage-in.4070967.jp
> 
> This driver didn't get away with it ! Can you imagine anyone doing this ?
> 
> ...


Yeah and gangs of guys worked on the lines through all that and I never heard a health and safety problem. Amazing.

Nowadays it's all kept in a container but sometimes the seals don't seem to work> I've had some horrible journeys on the newish Virgin Cross Country trains where the pong has been really offensive.

Andy


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks larry, your later post now totally clarifies your earlier one.

_my explanation is that last year we went to France and discovered the world of Aires parking Where they have everything so no need for illegal dumping of grey waste_

_hear hear david i do agree what shall we do when the uk denies that we excide long live france_ 

Perfect correlation in meanings.

And thanks to Dave for pointing out my breach of the rules of etiquette.


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## 90487 (May 1, 2005)

Like all those seen leaving the Stratford show with the waste water dribbling out  Far better to have left it drain on the grass if they must do it :x 

What is it with some M/H owners that they are paranoid about driving with a bit of water in their waste tanks? Fuel saving, van so full of junk that a few kg of water is over their payload? :roll: 

To a non M/H owner or non caravanner it may be interpreted as a leaking cassette toilet or black water tank. Just gives them the bullets to shoot us, this could easily have started the Aldeburgh fiasco :evil: Someone thought that they would empty their washing up water or whatever into the sea and it escalates. 

And if you think the waste water full of detergents are not harmful to water courses put a bit in your fish tank  

Carol


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Sewage*



Grizzly said:


> http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/Coach-driver-dumped-sewage-in.4070967.jp
> 
> This driver didn't get away with it ! Can you imagine anyone doing this ?
> 
> ...


Now thats a different matter!

Trev.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

johnandcharlie said:


> I've never worked out what to do on CLs and other sites without proper waste water disposal.
> .


What does the CL owner say about where to put the water ? In dry weather I think he'd prefer it on his flower beds. We use our grey water at home - washing up, washing machine, shower, bath etc, on the flower beds and they seem to survive.

I'd never - knowingly- drain it on the road as we went however because observers are sure to think we're dumping toilet waste. We did once fail to tighten the drain tap after visiting the dump and the remnants drained all over the entrance area.

G


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

We tend to take it home as have a man hole right under van when we get there just means carrying alot more weight but least fresh is usually empty. Grey does start to smell after couple of days though - used Peter's tip of 8 litres of cheapo coke to swish around and it works a treat!

Greenie


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I can totally understand the reason for not dumping grey water into the surface (aka storm) water drains.

They drain straight to the nearest water course without any filtering or treatment, hence the possibility of pollution.

Now to the official suggestions, especially during droughts (but also increasingly as a "green" measure) to empty the bathwater out onto the garden.

I assume the presumption is that the water is cleansed of its impurities as it filters down through the soil.

That is precisely the same as emptying the grey water under the hedge at a campsite!

As long as the quantities are small (as in the average grey tank) and it is done sensibly then the water will be pure enough before it gets to any water course or aquifier.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

I totally agree with you Pippin but you have to remember that the uneducated public will take a different view of what's being done.

It's not what you do, it's what others perceive you are doing.

So in those circumstances I believe we should act responsibly in support of our hobby and dump it at a site or at home but not where the public can take umbridge and use it as a stick to beat us.

Enough mixed metaphors, I'm off to bed.

Andy


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

What a fuss about nothing!

So no one cleans their car or motorhome and lets the water drain down gutters and surface water drains then?


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## 100004 (Jul 12, 2006)

I remember the very first time away at Slimbridge and saw 3 vans leaving with taps open and emptying along the site roads. Not impressed! We took ours home and then found the toilet area filthy and smelling not of roses 8O Since then, I use the site facilities or open on the road. it goes into the gutter and if any bikers are riding that close to the kerb, then I'll be very surprised.

As for pollution and the public perception? The first is very slim. The second does make me think. Just not for very long :lol: H


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

As we left Peterborough Show I noticed a tell tale trail of water on the approach road and out onto the roundabout and I thought then 'Why save it up until you're just leaving?' and 'If all the '000's of vans on site dumped the grey water in the same way it would be really vile'. 

So I'll stick with my position and either use the facilities or take it home, it's not as if it's a big job to drain it that way. Vanning can do without negative impressions created by such actions and just because the railways did it 30 years ago doesn't mean it's the right thing now.

Andy


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Grey water*

Hi

Coaches - right here goes. The coach toilet is by and large a Thetford or Porta Potti type. These are serviced using "blue" just like the motorhome loo. Underneath the coach is a large tank - and I mean large - and collects all the wee wee etc. This is then disposed of at the end of the journey in either a coach stop off point - there are not many - or back at the depot. When I was touring, I gave the following message....

"Ladies and gents there is a toilet on board and it is there to be used. However, filling it is easy, emptying it is not, so therefore please make use of the service areas' facilities and keep the one on the coach for emergencies where possible. Gentlemen should treat the coach toilet like a trip to the theatre - remain seated throughout the performance, otherwise, after going over a pothole, you will come out shaking your trouser leg".

Also, it is not possible to empty the contents whilst on the move. The discharge valve is usually in a locker and can only be opened therefore when the coach is parked.

On early coaches fitted with loos, the discharge valve was often in the toilet compartment but passengers had a habit of using it, rather than using the toilet flush. This was a major problem with coaches fitted with a toilet in the centre of the vehicle as the contents were emptied to the road and wrapped around the rear axles.

Coaches - grey water - only a tiny amount is generated - from the toilet sink. The design varies from coach to coach - some grey will go to the holding tank. On the early "Expressliners" (1990), the food preparation area was at the back and the water from the kitchen sink did go (as far as I am aware) on to the road. However, this too was minimal as only sandwiches, tea, coffee and so on were being prepared on the move, not a gourmet dinner involving pots and pans to wash.

Russell


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

seen from a _biological_ point of view (that means, not necessarily a _legal_ one), the second best way to dispose grey water - after using a proper sewage system with a treatment plant at the end - is on plant-covered soil. So grassland or something like that.

Grey water contains a significant amount of nutrients, not only food wastes but also components found in many detergents act like that, and therefore contributes to eutrophication of open waters. This is why *a roadside drain should never be used to dump grey water,* unless it is ensured that this specific drain empties into a sewer. Most of them do not, especially storm drains have a tendency to empty into open water. Vegetation, and the micro-organisms living in soil, break down these nutritients.

Dumping on the move is less dangerous for the environment, because the nutrients are spread over a large area and at least partially break down under the influence of sunlight. However, it poses a threat to following vehicles, especially motorcycles, as already mentioned.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

> So I'll stick with my position and either use the facilities or take it home, it's not as if it's a big job to drain it that way. Vanning can do without negative impressions created by such actions and just because the railways did it 30 years ago doesn't mean it's the right thing now.


You get it off ya chest lovey - feeling better now?

Mwah

Greenie

PS have to agree though take it home don't dump on road! we ought to start a campaign .....not!


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> pippin said:
> 
> 
> > LARRYWATTERS - can you give us a translation please!
> ...


By a long experience with mistyping and guardian crosswords the word excide is a typo for exist

two fingers hit the 'x' making 'xc' but could be also spelling many people pronounce a 'c' after the 'x' even though there isn't one.

'd' for 'e' is very common mistype but 'e' for 't' less so

So it gave me a few minutes amusement


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## b6x (Feb 26, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> we ought to start a campaign .....not!


Maybe the thread could be called "GreywaterGATE", that seems to be the norm at the moment.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I don't have a waste tank so am definitely not guilty of the specific charge. Surely its horses for courses some peoples water is a lot greyer than others.I have a very small sink waste drain holes so a bit of soap is all that's visibly in my grey water and we live a low fat lifestyle so there is seldom much grease from our washing up. I have often therefore put my grey into hedges but never as far as I know into storm drains.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

I'm with Carol (Witch) on this - I don't like seeing water running out of Motorhomes on the road - to the uninitiated, it may appear that it's toilet waste, and we don't want to give ignorant people the ammunition to have a go at motorhomers (cross-ref Aldeburgh :x ). 

I always try to dump at official points; but at shows / cL's etc, I would take it home (unless the tank is quite full, when I would drain some on the camping field before leaving)


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## 112048 (May 9, 2008)

We attend many CC rallies and all caravan owners gladly catch all their waste water in the wastemaster and then drag it to the edge and let it drain. Would we be considered equal if we drove our vans to the edge of the field and dumped our waste water.
We have been forced to trickle the water out whilst going along and having witnessed the above happening every weekend would like to know who is causing more damage.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Pouring grey water into an active topsoil is the best way to deal with it. You merely have to ensure you are not discarding your detritus on someone's pitch or where children play, for example.

Dave


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I had a moan on this topic recently and I think dumping on the move should be forbidden, not because of pollution or skid potential but for the simple reason if your following a dumper you get it all over your flipping vehicle, and that's not nice. 

Loddy


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

I've found on Cl's you can open the drain on a night last thing to a very slight trickle. By morning the tank is empty, grass is watered. Job done.
If I remember during water shortages the government recomend this as a highly efficient use of grey water


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

I am a cyclist as well as a motorhomer and on at least two occasions I've had the misfortune to be splattered with waste by a passing 'van driven by some thoughtless (brainless?) individual. It's not pleasant I can assure you! 
On a CL ask some want it down the Elsan point others, most in my experience, ask you to spread it along the hedge. Otherwise, take it home or dump it at the next site. What is the problem?
Public perception does matter, mistaken or not, as evidenced by the Aldeburgh thread.


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## 103279 (Mar 5, 2007)

loddy said:


> I had a moan on this topic recently and I think dumping on the move should be forbidden, not because of pollution or skid potential but for the simple reason if your following a dumper you get it all over your flipping vehicle, and that's not nice.
> 
> Loddy


Which is exactly what happened to me and five of my motorcycling companions, a horrible smell of old fried food, and grease on the bikes and visors. Had I not been leading our group I would have pursued and stopped the MH and pointed out the problem.


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

Zuma said:


> Why the assumption it was done on purpose?
> 
> Could have been a genuine error! :?


In which case letting them know will be a neighbourly thing to do. I know it works, because someone did it to me years ago the first time I dribbled it onto the road. I was so embarrassed I've never done it again.

So what happens when you find yourself stuck in traffic in a village with foul smelling water pooling up underneath your van?


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

pomme1 said:


> On a CL ask some want it down the Elsan point others, most in my experience, ask you to spread it along the hedge. Otherwise, take it home or dump it at the next site. What is the problem?
> Public perception does matter, mistaken or not, as evidenced by the Aldeburgh thread.


No-one is saying you shouldn't use the site disposal facilities when available

The problem is if you wild camp or use CL's, you may not be able to take it home or be able to access the proper facilities when away for extended periods.

We always have a long winter trip to Scotland, where there are no open sites and no facilities. The loo's emptied via a public loo or by lifting a foul sewer manhole. Fresh water comes from where you can find it.

The grey waste goes on the road.

Also personally, after 250,000 miles on a motorbike, I have never been splattered by a motorhome grey waste tank. I can however remember getting covered in cow pee by a livestock transporter in front of me.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

*Also personally, after 250,000 miles on a motorbike, I have never been splattered by a motorhome grey waste tank. I can however remember getting covered in cow pee by a livestock transporter in front of me.*

but after that many miles, bet you got a BSA


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Now THAT would make a great public information "Keep Your Distance!" film.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> I've found on Cl's you can open the drain on a night last thing to a very slight trickle. By morning the tank is empty, grass is watered.
> r


I can live with people watering flower beds ( with the say- so of the site owner) or spreading it in a hedge bottom but really, not just draining it off on your pitch.

There is a risk of getting stuck in sodden ground when you come to move off as well as leaving smelly deposits on the grass for the next user of that site.

G


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

to think that the "site people" criticsise the "wild campers". I wouldn't want to step out into a spot where someone had dumped his grey.


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## bikemad99 (Aug 17, 2006)

My drive is well drained granite chippings,so when I park up at home I open the drain tap and leave it to drain. I have never smelled anything bad, not killed any plants so far as I know, and I ride bikes without ever skidding on a drop of water drained from a motorhome. Why do so many people on here make problems when they are not there?
Reg.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

DollarYen said:


> to think that the "site people" criticsise the "wild campers". I wouldn't want to step out into a spot where someone had dumped his grey.


Bet you'd never know.


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## weaver (Jul 25, 2005)

We too drop the grey water on our gravel drive as the waste is expelled from the centre of the van in our Tribby, and it always seems like too much hasstle to try and position it over the drain when we are on the way home. Thinking of adding a hose to the side, as suggested by other Tribby owners,

Our water consists of our personal washing water + washing up water. We too don't do greasy and really mucky plates and pans are wiped with a kitchen towel.

When camping in my youth we were told to dump washing up water in the hedgerow or dig a hole to bury it. Although I agree that dumping really mucky water anywhere other than the drain would be detrimental, most grey water is fairly clear and certainly not smelly. In fact, one of the suggestions for getting rid of green fly on your plants is to dump your washing up water on them!

I think it is all a case of when, where and what. Motorhome owners must use their common sense and consider others when they dump, but I think too much of a fuss can be made about environmental issues.

Happy travelling
Louise


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## Burneyinn (Oct 27, 2006)

Weaver I agree with you 100%.

Common sense must prevail


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

weaver said:


> , most grey water is fairly clear and certainly not smelly. .


If you empty by bucket when necessary and dump in the waste water drain at a campsite then it is clear that some waste water must be smelly because I have yet to meet a campsite waste water drain that does NOT smell.

We wipe dishes with kitchen towel, don't drain eggy water or boiled rice water into the tank and use pleasant smelling shampoos and shower gels but the waste water will still smell if we leave it for a few days.

I'd also be aware that it is not a good thing to throw your water onto plants and hedges. If the water is hard it leaves a deposit on the leaves and prevents photosynthesis. It can also cause scorching on sunny days. Pour it onto the roots by all means or into a hedge bottom or open soil away from pitches.

G


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Grizzly said:


> weaver said:
> 
> 
> > , most grey water is fairly clear and certainly not smelly. .
> ...


Actually to say a drain smells is not strictly true. What you can smell is the bacteria that grow in the drain fed by the food particles in the water. This does not happen when the water is poured into the ground due to natural filtration process that occurs


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

but after that many miles, bet you got a BSA[/quote]

Bloody sore ass

I remember it well

Loddy


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

I save mine until after midnight and pour it over next door's cars.

Does me the world of good watching him polish his guts out.

(You would too if you knew what he did with his hands when he's not polishing. - Keeps him out of mischief). :twisted:


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Grid*

I usually pour our grey water down a grid, but a lot of country grids go straight into the fields  
However grey water is not really dirty, just a little soapy and maybe a little grease  
I do believe that you can be prosecuted by the police for insecure load or more like load falling onto the carriageway 8O 
But the police do have more serious and important things to occupy their time with and you would be unlucky if prosecuted for such an offence  
At a campsite that I have frequented for several years, the farmer told my to let it drain in the edge of the field, however this was winter and I would not even have considered this action in hotter weather as it could smell and I don't think that the next family on the pitch would appreciate it


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Grid*



Grath said:


> I would not even have considered this action in hotter weather as it could smell


Ah but it wont!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Opinions*

Hello,

Seems we are getting different opinions from the reply I gave on an earlier post.

Earlier Post<

Russel,

I was aware of the sanitation/black tank and think I have seen rather a lot of new coaches with hoses leaking grey water and it is not condenstate!

Trevor.


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