# Alcove or A class best for winter?



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Last time we were in Germany we were talking to a German chap and he said that Alcove motorhomes were much better for winter camping than A class ones because you can totally block the cab off when parked and you don't then leak all the heat out and use much less gas.


He showed us his Concorde Alcove and demonstrated what he meant.


He also said that Alcoves are much easier to service and do work on, you havn't got the huge expense of windscreen replacement.


He almost had me sold on them. In fact he said they are best for everything not just winter.


Got me thinking I,ll tell you when its time to change.


What do others think?


Paul.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think what is an alcove motorhome Paul?


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Overcab, Luton, Highline coachbuilt?

If I'm guessing correctly, what you do lose is possibly the two front swivelling cab seats which in some MH's form 50% of the lounge seating area.

Edit - I'm wrong, doh. From Southdowns website on the Concorde Cruiser:

"An absolutely premium-class alcove, which is just right for individualists: the Cruiser boasts a perfect combination of luxury and performance. It contains our unique expertise based on 30 years of experience in alcove construction, as well as the knowledge that even the best can be improved. For example the entire body is now manufactured in a lightweight-sandwich construction, making the current Cruiser weigh 45 kilograms less.".

So similar to RS's Evolution http://www.rsmotorhomes.com/model-range/evolution/ or RaceCruiser http://www.rsmotorhomes.com/used-vehicles/rs-racecruiser/


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thought that might be it. Ta Dfor.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Why call it an alcove though, it's a coachbuilt innit, unless someone moved the damned goalposts again > >

http://www.southdownsmotorhomecentr...e/cruiser.html?engine_size_sizes=893&limit=30


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Why call it an alcove though, it's a coachbuilt innit, unless someone moved the damned goalposts again > >
> 
> http://www.southdownsmotorhomecentr...e/cruiser.html?engine_size_sizes=893&limit=30


Yep. I really like my Kontiki 669 Alcove.


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## flyinghigh (Dec 10, 2012)

surely just a quality insulated curtain that drops down to insulate the cab from the habitation is just as effective for a fraction of the cost!
what am I missing?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Something like those 70's concertina kitchen doors would be very useful in our Alcove van :roll: , much better than any curtain.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Alcove is simply what the Germans call an overcab coachbuilt.
The French call them capucines.
Depends on the language you speak as to what they are called.


To my eye the one linked to above look more like horse box conversions.


Just saying.


.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

The German guy had a Concorde Charisma alcove, yes its a coachbuilt van, just another name.


There was a BIG THICK WOODEN SLIDING DOOR(I imagine much better than a curtain) that came across and totally blocked the cab off, no silver screens required, much warmer as no leaking of heat. Much warmer and more effective than an A class he said. Double floor, Alde heating same as A class.


He didn't have a cruiser, he had a Charisma alcove, smaller and looks more like a british coachbuilt Kontiki or something. It didn't look like the horsebox type cruiser that was linked to.He said another good alcove was a Carthago Mondial if anybody wants to google. His Charisma alcove was on an Iveco 2001 model, 5200kg twin rear wheel. The cruisers are 7500kg.


He said a lot of Germans who camped in winter were swapping to these. Alcove must be what they call them.


Cracking motorhome it looked though, pure quality inside.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

deefordog said:


> Yep. I really like my Kontiki 669 Alcove.


Hi, Does yours have the big thick wooden door that totally blocks the cab area off? The same as the German guys had.

Paul.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I've just been looking at the van in Dfers link to Rs, they are really tacky looking, they seem to be following the yanks in lack of style.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

It's Germanspeak,

Alkoven = standard coach built with an overcab

Integrierte = A class, where the cab is 'integrated' into the conversion

Kastenwagen = Usually referred to as a panelvan conversion.

Pete


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Kev, have a look on mobile.de motorhomes.


You should see some on there, a different kettle of fish altogether.


Paul.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes you can call them what you want, its just a name.


Its the design that's important, the German said that for winter camping there is no comparison whatsoever between an alcove and an A class, that's why a lot of Germans are swapping over,

I imagine its not just the door that slides across that's the difference, it will be a combination, build quality, insulation, double floor, Alde etc.

Paul.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

The main reason for my thread is I thought A class were the pinnacle and the German chap was saying ''No, no, no, every German camper will tell you these are much, much better, in a different league altogether.


His was about 7.5 metres long so not huge at all, as I say twin rear wheel Iveco 5200kg, nothing like the cruiser linked to, more a traditional uk coachbuilt type, he definitely said 2001 year.


Time for a google I think, I should have took a photo.


Paul.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

coppo said:


> Yes you can call them what you want, its just a name.
> 
> Its the design that's important, the German said that for winter camping there is no comparison whatsoever between an alcove and an A class, that's why a lot of Germans are swapping over,
> 
> ...


But then of course choose the same model in a low profile and you get all the same specs without the horrendous bulge above the cab. 
Not possible with the Concorde though as I don't think they do low profile any more, although some of the older ones were ugly, this one is a nicer example http://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-i...res=EXPORT&categories=PartlyIntegrated&noec=1.

.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

eurajohn said:


> But then of course choose the same model in a low profile and you get all the same specs without the horrendous bulge above the cab.
> Not possible with the Concorde though as I don't think they do low profile any more, although some of the older ones were ugly, this one is a nicer example http://suchen.mobile.de/wohnwagen-i...res=EXPORT&categories=PartlyIntegrated&noec=1.
> 
> .


Yes same concept I imagine, I,m not sure they would have been around in 2001 though which was the year of his Charisma alcove, sorry coachbuilt:wink2:.

Just the extra bed above the cab would be the difference.


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I've seen quite a few of these whilst away skiing in Austria and they would be great for winter camping. The downside is that you lose the view out the front so unless they make a rear lounge version you would have a pretty confined outlook.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We could do with a pic or three of the actual means they use to keep it warm.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Look at the number of Integrated motorhomes produced compared to Alkoven and you will probably see that A-classes are top unless you have a family.

I looked at Alkoven vans before we bought our current Integrated because they make sense for all the reasons the dealer says, including many of the benefits of the Integrated design. On that basis, Alkovens are better.

*But*, headroom over the cab is less, an Alkoven is higher [some ferries/tolls will be higher and some roads out of bounds], the front takes a lot more cleaning with the bugs etc, Alkovens fuel consumption is worse [by as much as 5mpg I reckon on the heavier models], it's harder to use the cab as living space, and you simply do not get the vista from the driving seat that Integrated give you nor the street cred unless you go really big.

I've fancied a EuraMobile Terrestrial for many years!

If you go for a big Alkoven, the Iveco 7 ton van provides for better loading margin, a beefy 205bhp engine and a 8 speed auto box [not Comfortmatic]. It gets great reviews in the commercial press and is used by many of the liner style Integrated models in Germany. Those Alkoven built on Ategos or other small truck chassis will have less loading margin because the chassis is much heavier and this is not compensated for by having a bigger engine. Above 7 ton, the Merc Atego, MAN or Iveco Eurocargo equivalent is probably all you'll find. I have a feeling that Mercedes now offer a 7 ton Sprinter chassis van [used to be 6.3 tons max].

Be very wary of whether you are getting the most updated chassis/engine because the heavy weight vans and small trucks have all been updated in the last year or so to comply with the latest EU emissions standard.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Paul, was it something like this?....










..or this one but its 1999 and doesn't had a solid cab partition...

http://www.caraworld.de/wohnmobile/concorde/charisma/2451897/concorde-charisma-720-g.html

Pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Paul,

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. My side windows are double-glazed, I have a double floor, and an insulated shutter blocks off the windscreen. The sound insulation from the engine compartment below windscreen level acts as thermal insulation, too. If I were to sacrifice the front seats the truck would have to be a metre longer for the same interior space to compensate.

Dave


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

IIRC, some Burstners (747/748?) overcab coachbuilts had a sliding door arrangement between the cab and lounge. http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...erfield-mfpa-8aa12a584b4b1de1014b79a71cd71b75

And then there's the Dethleffs Globetrotter XXL, similar arrangement http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/...b51a013a745bdd233adc/makemodel/make/dethleffs


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Just another thought but instead of worrying so much about cold weather, head South to the sun for the winter, much better option.


.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

peejay said:


> Paul, was it something like this?....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes Pete, it looked the dead same as that one.

Dabs, I was talking to the guy for ages and I mentioned about the front shutters on A classes to close off the window, He was very damning of them saying that they still don't stop condensation that much.

Apart from the cab area and windscreen situation, it will be the same as any other top range motorhome, double floor, alde, insulation, wood free etc.

His reasoning, as I say, was that by totally blocking off the cab you get a much warmer environment, no condensation, no thermal screens, no heat leakage, use much less lpg. Its a shame that there are not a load of German members to comment.

I was intrigued when he said that lots of German motorhomers who camp all year are changing to alcove from A class and they will never go back.

Interesting to hear someone who has had both, I,m not talking about a thermal curtain, I mean one where the cab area is totally isolated by a thick wooden door.

Paul.


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## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

A couple of weeks back we were parked next to frenchie,
He never used silver screens either, he just closed a thick curtain which hung down and over his front seats that were swiveled around,
Thought it looked odd but guess who never had condensation on his cab windows
Misty


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## Oaktree11 (Aug 4, 2015)

I am fairly new to this lifestyle and I have found it quite surprising (and amusing) that there are such strong partisan feelings on topics like this. There are loads of experienced and somewhat smug owners who are only too happy to tell you that you are wrong and what you are doing is incorrect/unnecessary/daft etc.
My general experience is that what works for you might not work for me although I am very happy to look at what you do and learn if possibe.
So far I have been berated variously for being and A class owner, using a trailer not an A frame, bothering to tow at all, having an aquaroll, contemplating an awning etc etc. All by people who "know" that they are right"
My personal take on this topic is that I chose an A class because, to my eye they are much more elegant than having a great bump on top of the cab, containing an "alcove" that must feel like a coffin to sleep in. My Burstner is ideal for the two of us and i really did want the huge windscreen for those lovely panoramic views instead of looking through a letterbox. 
We are about to look at attaching an insulating curtain along the edge of the drop down bed for nightimes which will save us having to deploy the window blinds when we retire and help with insulation of the living area but is more the convenience angle really.
John


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

John

In support of your comment " i really did want the huge windscreen for those lovely panoramic views instead of looking through a letterbox." I want to add that we have recently been in the Pyrenees and had we not had the large windscreen on our Arto we would have only seen half of them - the bottom half:wink2:>

Geoff


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

One of the things to remember is that unless you switch the heater to "recirculate" then there is a big orifice for cold air to blow in through.
Putting a curtain across overnight doesn't make any difference to condensation or at least it doesn't in mine. Two people perspire a few pints of water overnight and that has to go somewhere so you have make a choice as to where you want that to go.
What I like about A Class as opposed to Coach built is the space and coolness in hot weather when driving and I see that gain in space and airiness as a fair trade off against any small saving for any extra heating. Oh yes and the fantastic view as you drive along.


There are drawbacks to A Class, I've been waiting for over a weeks now to have my cracked windscreen replace and have had to tell them about six times, including a visit from them to fit it, that I have a Hymer B584 and NOT a "Fiat Ducato". (I feel a saga in the making)


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

BillCreer said:


> One of the things to remember is that unless you switch the heater to "recirculate" then there is a big orifice for cold air to blow in through.
> Putting a curtain across overnight doesn't make any difference to condensation or at least it doesn't in mine. Two people perspire a few pints of water overnight and that has to go somewhere so you have make a choice as to where you want that to go.
> What I like about A Class as opposed to Coach built is the space and coolness in hot weather when driving and I see that gain in space and airiness as a fair trade off against any small saving for any extra heating. Oh yes and the fantastic view as you drive along.
> 
> There are drawbacks to A Class, I've been waiting for over a weeks now to have my cracked windscreen replace and have had to tell them about six times, including a visit from them to fit it, that I have a Hymer B584 and NOT a "Fiat Ducato". (I feel a saga in the making)


Oddly I put mine onto fresh so there is a draught to help clear the screen in the morning.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Oddly I put mine onto fresh so there is a draught to help clear the screen in the morning.


Me too, unless there is a storm going on outside or a strong north /cold wind blowing into the front of the van.

But it's not obvious to a lot of people that it can be a source of a cold draft.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Some good replies and food for thought here.

People will always come on and defend the motorhome type they have.

I never expected anyone to come on and say, I,ve got an A class and I agree etc.

Good topic to discuss on a motorhome forum.

Oaktree11, you have said that you have been berated for being an A class owner yet have just then berated coachbuilt/Alcove owners.

Its just a pleasant thread asking for peoples opinions, don't get upset over it.

The German guy was entitled to his opinion, in fact he was very nice fellow.

Paul.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

coppo said:


> Some good replies and food for thought here.
> 
> People will always come on and defend the motorhome type they have.
> 
> ...


Thanks you for those observations Wise One:grin2:

I missed that, who's getting upset?


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

We use our MH for winter. The OH is German. We often spend time with other Germans. They all have A class vans and have never heard anyone talk of changing them.
Yes, we have condensation but nothing that a 20 second whizz with a Karcher does not sort out. I agree that you would need 1m longer to compensate for the lack of swivel seats etc and as for the view...surely thats the point ?

And frankly, having spent 100k on our A class, do we really give a toss about the heating bill ?????


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

BillCreer said:


> Thanks you for those observations Wise One:grin2:
> 
> I missed that, who's getting upset?


You obviously :grin2:are


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Well, I've owned "A" class, overcab and low profile examples over the past ten years (and a PVC too if you go back to the 1970s).

The "A" class is by far the most stylish and does have some practical advantages - but also a number of disadvantages (not least being the price).

I've posted before listing my opinion of the various plus and minus factors but on the question of insulation and heating costs specifically I would consider that manufacturing specification and quality will be far more important than the type of van. For instance a German van of any design from one of the top manufacturers will perform better than say a cheap and cheerful Italian or UK made van. That's not to say there is anything wrong with either of those, simply that you decide what's important to you, you pays your money and you takes your choice. For warmth and absence of draughts at night I'd say that a good quality "A" class drop-down bed takes some beating, mainly because you're not close up to any (cold) exterior walls and you usually have a curtain around at least three sides.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have sen no mention of Italian or French vans in this thread, is there any reason for this.

cabby


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## Tezmcd (Aug 3, 2009)

So an Alcove MH is like an A class with less living space - must be better then?

(makes you wonder why they bother putting swivel cabs seats in to start with)

Then again I have had another idea - how about a MH that you can drive the cab away - I'm gonna call it a caravan - think I'm onto something

(there is no better or best of anything - just what's better or best for you individually)


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Cabby you need to read the post above yours again>
Paul.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> I have sen no mention of Italian or French vans in this thread, is there any reason for this.
> 
> cabby


Of course.

I have sen the opportunity to slag off Italian motorhomes - do I need any other reason?????

PS: What was that about the French, I never sed anything about the French?


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Evening all,

Ours has a solid wooden (lockable) sliding door to partition off the cab. It is very effective at sealing off the cab area from both heat and cold. Mrs O likes the security aspect - i.e. restricted access to the main part of the van if anyone breaks into the cab. 
Crash protection (frontal) is broadly the same as the equivalent van (Iveco Daily in our case). Windscreen replacement cheap as chips  .

View out of the front - non existent when the door is closed. So sometimes, it can feel as though the cab area is wasted space when on site. Flip side is that it is possible to retreat to the cab and shut the door if one wants some peace and quiet (Mrs O often sits in the cab and reads - the seats are very comfy).

We bought ours mainly because of the belted seating capacity and the payload.

If we change ours, it would probably be for an A-class - to get the most internal space for overall length. If only I could justify the cost of the N&B Flair 920LF :surprise:
N&B Flair

Regards,
John


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Good post John.


We will probably get another A class van having had 2 already.


The downsides for me are obviously what the German chap was saying about heating.


Also its the double glazed side windows aspect, fine if you swap after 3 years or so but buying a used one you have to check carefully, if you can't do it yourself then expect to pay a fortune. A big N&B Flair parked next to us at this years Peterborough show, 2011 plate, cab side window all blown. I would prefer single glazed personally.


Servicing easier, windscreen replacement, working on the engine etc, easier to repair in an accident.


But the view is better in A class, more space for length, they look better too.


Paul.


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Thanks Paul.

The other advantage (I think, no personal experience) of an A-class is that, as a family, you are all travelling "together'. In ours, the children always seemed a bit remote in the back - and their only real view was sideways. BUT, I couldn't find many A-class vans with enough belted seats for a family of five when we were looking. 

On the other hand, the children being remote was sometimes a blessing 

It's all a fine illustration of the fact that the vast majority of us have to make some compromises when choosing our motorhome - very few are lucky enough to find perfection. 

Regards,
John


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## Oaktree11 (Aug 4, 2015)

Coppo,

I think that you have misread the thrust of my post. I didnt berate anyone for anything, I thought my closing remark made that clear. We all make our choices and what suits one wont suit another, doesnt mean its wrong.
"Each to his own", "Live and let live" etc, choose your own cliche. The important thing is to listen ad learn and then make your own decision.

John


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## GAVLAD (Aug 10, 2014)

My van is a Euramobil Activa and has the wooden sliding door to partition off the cab from the Hab area in order to retain heat.
It's very effective and you can tell as soon as opening the door in a morning, the difference in temperature between the two areas is really noticeable. However, it would be when you think about it because the heating isn't being allowed to circulate as much there when the door is shut.
My view before buying was do I really want to sit in the drivers seat to relax after a long days travelling sat in that seat?
Plus, as much as you get more floor space, you tend to loose space with a deeper dash. Saying that, most A classes don't have a long bonnet.
There's pro's & cons to both and suppose at the end of the day it comes down to personal choice and layout options.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Sitting in the drivers seat, well yes but one can adjust the drivers seat to be more comfy, In our coach built, we have the silver external screens plus a long floor length curtain when needed that hangs down behind the front seats, so we keep the space , rather than look like an enclosed hut. 
If it were for extreme cold temps, then to be honest rather be in an Hotel.


cabby


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

I bet if a person says go for an A Class then they will have an A class, Then If somebody says go for an Alkoven then thats what they will have. 
Both vans have their plus points and both have their negative points.
What ever suits you best at this present moment it the best one to have. 

I have a rear lounge, so not much storage. But I have the luton bed so tons of storage up there. If I need to use the luton bed then 30 seconds to empty it. Works perfect for me.
But other people would say they would never go this way. Some say an enclosed hut. Some say snug and cosy. 

To me an A class is a big dashboard of wasted space and I don't want to be sitting in the driver seat any more. some say more space and bigger, better view. Some say wasted space and expensive to replace a screen. 

At this present time I would say an alcove is better, But I bet if I owned an A Class I would say something different. 

Suits me sir... The grass is always greener... Mines better than yours.... You don't want to do it that way, Do it my way.. 

It will NEVER END,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Do it the way that suits you at the present time.. That is the right way..


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

So far as heating is concerned my van (an A class) has the Aldi heating system running through the cab area as well, which I guess is much more difficult to achieve in a coachbulit. Anyway because of the heating running through the cab area as well I never notice any temperature differentials. When temperatures drop outside I use external silverscreens which help considerably in keeping the heat inside the van. Generally the majority of heat that is lost I suspect through the vents that we keep open for ventilation.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

If we take the Ducato X250 cab, despite doing everything suggested on the internet I've stuffed things in every gap I can find and can still feel drafts when the wind blows. Silver Screens help keep some of the cold out but getting rid of drafts is like finding the Holy Grail lol.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

deefordog said:


> If we take the Ducato X250 cab, despite doing everything suggested on the internet I've stuffed things in every gap I can find and can still feel drafts when the wind blows. Silver Screens help keep some of the cold out but getting rid of drafts is like finding the Holy Grail lol.


Don't know where you have stuffed what, but I found on my last X250 to cure most of the cold intake when driving, tape up the louvre vents on the rear edge of the doors. 
I found that whilst stationary most of the draughts came from underneath on the chassis and where the Alko met the Fiat part.

Whether it is a good idea to block these off or not for the long term good of the vehicle I don't know but it certainly made living in the van when cold a lot more pleasant.
Initially I taped over the various holes etc. I found and when convinced I had it right used the two part foam used by the converter (Pilote in my case) to make the job permanent.

.


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks John, time to look for few more holes methinks. I've also taped the door louvres, the box section holes underneath the cab and the holes in the door cards in the lower door pocket. Our drafts seem to from under the dash despite the air flow knob set to "recirculation". Any more ideas welcomed.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Revise said:


> I bet if a person says go for an A Class then they will have an A class, Then If somebody says go for an Alkoven then thats what they will have.
> Both vans have their plus points and both have their negative points.
> What ever suits you best at this present moment it the best one to have.
> 
> ...


Its about people being honest, if you have a van that doesn't work then say so.

We had a big Hymer S820 and I gave a detailed honest review when someone asked on here.

For me the A class is great and we will probably get one, it just the heat loss, having to use screens, windscreen cost and access to the engine when required.

I,ve enjoyed reading peoples opinions though on the pros and cons of each.

Paul.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

I agree the dashboard does get cold ( we are normally out in winter in moutains). We have an internal blind for the windscreen and I have made a polar blanket which fits all the way across the dashboard. This stops any cool air coming in and we can happily sit round the table all night at -20 degrees. The underfloor heating is brilliant and tbh we hardly use much gas as we are so well insulated.
It does depend on spec though, its not just A class vs others. We bought our bus for winter use and it does the job well.


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

peribro said:


> So far as heating is concerned my van (an A class) has the Aldi heating system running through the cab area as well, which I guess is much more difficult to achieve in a coachbulit. Anyway because of the heating running through the cab area as well I never notice any temperature differentials. When temperatures drop outside I use external silverscreens which help considerably in keeping the heat inside the van. Generally the majority of heat that is lost I suspect through the vents that we keep open for ventilation.


Peter,

Our Alde wet central heating does extend into our cab - a significant radiator just behind the passenger seat. If it is cold outside (-16) then it still feels cold(er) in the cab area when the sliding door is opened in the morning. If staying anywhere for more than an overnight at such temperatures, we pop the external silverscreen on - this makes enough difference to leave the cab area almost as warm as the rest of the van when opening the door in the morning. We don't bother for one night stops - though we might if we expected it to be significantly colder then -16.

Regards,
John


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Ozzyjohn said:


> Our Alde wet central heating does extend into our cab - a significant radiator just behind the passenger seat. If it is cold outside (-16) then it still feels cold(er) in the cab area when the sliding door is opened in the morning. If staying anywhere for more than an overnight at such temperatures, we pop the external silverscreen on - this makes enough difference to leave the cab area almost as warm as the rest of the van when opening the door in the morning. We don't bother for one night stops - though we might if we expected it to be significantly colder then -16.


Crumbs - I never realised it got that cold in Shropshire!:wink2::grin2:


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

peribro said:


> Crumbs - I never realised it got that cold in Shropshire!:wink2::grin2:


Rarely in Shropshire, but frequently over New Year in Braemar :grin2::grin2:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

mistycat said:


> A couple of weeks back we were parked next to frenchie,
> He never used silver screens either, he just closed a thick curtain which hung down and over his front seats that were swiveled around,
> Thought it looked odd but guess who never had condensation on his cab windows
> Misty


We have a home-made curtain of blackout material that fits round the cab just above the windows. However it's not draughtproof as the baseline is so varied - footwells included.

What you're mentioning above, Mistycat - is the curtain spread over the seats so that the occupants sit on it?

I can see that might cut down on the draughts but I imagine the curtain might easily be pulled off its anchor?


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

coppo said:


> Its a shame that there are not a load of German members to comment.


Well, here is one. (Though only by birth and passport. By heart and mind I am dedicated European.) But we are using our alcove MH all-year round, even in the country where we now live, in Sweden! And in fact we love our overcab bed! As long as we are still able to climb up the ladder, we don't want anything else.

However, only a very small number of alcove MHs, mainly in the upper price class, is equipped with such a solid, sliding-door barrier between habitation area and cab. Most of them, like ours, only have a curtain.

But then there are curtains, and there are curtains. There are flimsy things which just barely suffice to block the view of a peeping Tom. And there are such made of thick, insulating fabric. Ours is of the latter sort, and it forms a sufficient heat barrier towards the cab. Though, if outside temperature drops below freezing we still use (outside) silver screens.



coppo said:


> I was intrigued when he said that lots of German motorhomers who camp all year are changing to alcove from A class and they will never go back.


Unfortunately, this I believe was mainly wishful thinking. Fact is that even in Germany sales figures of alcove have dropped significantly over the last years, mostly in favour of B class MHs. It seems that many MH owners are not too much interested in (real) winter tours. It has become really difficult to find well-built middle and upper class alcove MHs. (Though, on the last Düsseldorf show there were some signs to be seen that this trend might change.)

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

JWW said:


> We have a home-made curtain of blackout material that fits round the cab just above the windows. However it's not draughtproof as the baseline is so varied - footwells included.
> 
> What you're mentioning above, Mistycat - is the curtain spread over the seats so that the occupants sit on it?
> 
> I can see that might cut down on the draughts but I imagine the curtain might easily be pulled off its anchor?


No it was hung between the seats and screen, 
No sitting on them,


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

That's how ours is. Think I need to work on how to make it more draught proof...


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> John
> 
> In support of your comment " i really did want the huge windscreen for those lovely panoramic views instead of looking through a letterbox." I want to add that we have recently been in the Pyrenees and had we not had the large windscreen on our Arto we would have only seen half of them - the bottom half:wink2:>
> 
> Geoff


Although the general consensus from the buying public is too large a windscreen does not work. Look at the Burstner Grand Panorama, a total failure in terms of numbers sold and dropped after on 4 years of production. Okay the cambus habitation fault played a part on its failure, but initial attraction to buy which undoubtedly must have been the huge windscreen did not attract nearly as many sales as Burstner predicted. I was told they only ever reached 34% of the predicted sales rate. Strangely, it was a bigger success in the UK than Europe.
I much prefer an A Class but as said no right or wrong its all personal choice.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

stewartwebr said:


> Although the general consensus from the buying public is too large a windscreen does not work. Look at the Burstner Grand Panorama, a total failure in terms of numbers sold and dropped after on 4 years of production. Okay the cambus habitation fault played a part on its failure, but initial attraction to buy which undoubtedly must have been the huge windscreen did not attract nearly as many sales as Burstner predicted. I was told they only ever reached 34% of the predicted sales rate. Strangely, it was a bigger success in the UK than Europe.
> I much prefer an A Class but as said no right or wrong its all personal choice.


That is just too big I'd hate to drive it on a sunny day, can't see nay visors either.


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## Sevenup (Jun 29, 2015)

Probably uses a blind rather than sun visors. 

I'm an A class fan. We hired before buying and loathed the coffin type bed of the alcove style van but liked that it didn't need put away in the morning or that jigsaw completion skills were not necessary to get the bed ready. However the condensation thing is a PIA in my view. I wonder if external screens do better at limiting that?


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## flyinghigh (Dec 10, 2012)

My screen pulls down from the top and with bright or low winter sun I just pull it down enough to do the job, works perfect!

I have both inner and outer solar screens if needed, if on site I will use the outer one but when wild camping I use the inner one only,

they make a massive difference to condensation forming but a quick swipe with a karcher window vac does clears the screen if there is any condensation left,


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Sevenup said:


> Probably uses a blind rather than sun visors.
> 
> I'm an A class fan. We hired before buying and loathed the coffin type bed of the alcove style van but liked that it didn't need put away in the morning or that jigsaw completion skills were not necessary to get the bed ready. However the condensation thing is a PIA in my view. I wonder if external screens do better at limiting that?


The Grand Panorama has a full width paper blind which moves down electrically from the roof space and meets with the one that rises from the dash both meeting in the middle.

Our friend had one for a short period and the issue he had was condensation dripping from the horizontal top section of the screen straight down onto the paper blind, it didn't look very nice after a few weeks in the alps in the height of winter. He was glad to get rid of it.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

BillCreer said:


> One of the things to remember is that unless you switch the heater to "recirculate" then there is a big orifice for cold air to blow in through.
> Putting a curtain across overnight doesn't make any difference to condensation or at least it doesn't in mine. Two people perspire a few pints of water overnight and that has to go somewhere so you have make a choice as to where you want that to go.
> What I like about A Class as opposed to Coach built is the space and coolness in hot weather when driving and I see that gain in space and airiness as a fair trade off against any small saving for any extra heating. Oh yes and the fantastic view as you drive along.
> 
> There are drawbacks to A Class, I've been waiting for over a weeks now to have my cracked windscreen replace and have had to tell them about six times, including a visit from them to fit it, that I have a Hymer B584 and NOT a "Fiat Ducato". (I feel a saga in the making)


Still waiting for them to source a screen.

I know Peter Hambilton has them in stock just five minutes up the road in Preston but they insist on using their own suppliers.

I see that I'll have to escalate the issue within CCC Insurance.


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