# Motorhome - fit for purpose?



## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

We recently hired a Motorhome at the end of December from an established company to go to France. 
We had hired the same vehicle in July with no problems.
On arriving in France after dark at our first night's site we found the heating system would not work.
We contacted the owner immediately and despite his suggestions (gas not connected correctly, valves in wrong position, etc) we were unable to make it work.
The temperatures that night, and subsequent nights, were well below freezing - and so were we.
The heating system failed to work at all and after two nights we decided that enough was enough and returning to the UK was our only alternative.
We had our dog with us, and due to Customs regulations, had to wait 24 hours after he had seen a French Vet before we could cross by Eurotunnel.
At that point we had spent three nights in freezing weather.
This crossing also incurred an extra charge of £31.
We contacted the owner immediately after returning and took the Motorhome back to him after only four days.
He agreed the heating did not work and was most apologetic.
Would a total lack of heating, during possibly the coldest Winter for years, qualify the vehicle to be considered not fit for purpose?
If so, what steps could I consider taking to retrieve some or all of the hire monies totalling £720 as the owner seems to be dragging his feet in deciding what he should or shouldn't do?


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

I hope you paid by credit card. If so contact the card company to seek some redress on your behalf. Clearly the vehicle was inadequately prepared for hirs.

I believe the "Fit for Purpose" words are associated with sales of vehicles not rental ones. Was this a private rental or from a known and established firm I wonder?

C.


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## MikeCo (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm a bit surprised that you did not agree a refund before you handed the keys over especially if you were back early.

Mike


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

KeithChesterfield said:


> (clip)
> The heating system failed to work at all and after two nights we decided that enough was enough and returning to the UK was our only alternative. (clip)


I know you shouldn't have had to do so but couldn't you have just bought a relatively low cost heater locally. Or else found a local motorhome/caravan dealer workshop who may have been able to solve the problem, which may have been as simple as a failed thermocouple? You could have then sought recompense for the outlay when you got back. On the face of it, either of those would surely have been a lot less cost and inconvenience than the steps outlined in your post, unless there's more behind this?

Regarding any possible claim on the hire firm, at some stage were you not given a copy of their Terms & Conditions? If so, is this eventuality covered there, as that would form the basis of any contract.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

"Clearly the vehicle was inadequately prepared for hirs."

Clive, how can you make such a comment?

Appliances break down for unknown reasons, especially Electrical/Mechanical. Gas appliances require electricity for their controls. Unfortunately we must expect these things to malfunction, it is a part of life.

I realise that Keith and his family were upset and had their holiday ruined but you can't blame anyone without knowing the full facts. Did Keith inspect the vehicle when he collected it from the hirer? Was everything in working order when collected? 

Could the problem have been a blown fuse? Sometimes fuses blow for no apparent reason, over a period of time they can just get tired.

One other question I would ask, is, why did Keith not contact a local MH dealer in France and ask his opinion. 

In answer to the original question, If the vehicle was in perfect order when picked up and the hirer advised that it was being returned as not fit for the purpose, then I would expect a full refund.

Drew


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Sorry Roger,

I didn't realise that you had posted.

Drew


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## ianhibs (May 1, 2005)

Of course the hire company is in the wrong for not making sure that the heating system was working but surely you asked for a demonstration before you departed knowing what time of year it was.

Also a quick post on MHF would have given you the address of a local Motorhome Dealer who could have sorted it out.

We had the same experience in April last year in freezing temperatures in France when some idiot had filled the gas tank with Butane. Unfortunately, I cannot sue myself.

Maybe if I knew all the facts my opinion might be different, but based on what you've told us, I think you could have tried harder to avoid/solve the problem but still good luck with your claim. I certainly think you are due some form of refund or a free hire in the future.

Ian


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Whilst not condoning the lack of gas heating, most modern vans have two forms of heating, gas and electric.

As the OP was on a site, surely there was electic hook up, if not, running the engine would have provided heating in the cab area and lighting the oven or gas hobs would provide additional heat until bed time.

The next day the OP should have found a camping shop or hypermaket and purchased a cheap 3 kw fan heater or found a MH dealer and asked them to investigate the problem.

As to the additional days delay and wait due to the dog being examined by a French Vet, this could have happened anyway at the end of the holiday causing him to bring the van back late unless he had pre-booked an appointment.

Incidentally the OP should have checked that all systems were working corectly on handover before embarking on the holiday.

A liitle thought would have avoided a spoilt holiday.

Strange that the dealer did not offer the above advice when he was contacted by the hirer.

Just my observations

Peter


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

Just to add, I agree with Peter, although I symathise with the OP, he should have checked EVERYTHING was working prior to going abroad.

Saves all the agro.

Bob


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Heater*

Hi

A few bits and not judging anyone.

My own Truma boiler conked out - on Christmas Eve - and yes it was -14 degrees the following morning. The boiler was working, but on gas only, the electric side was out of action, so not really a crisis other than the rapid use of gas and associated costs. I always have a small fan heater that lives under the drivers seat - so this, plus the gas on low did the job. I also made use of the roof aircon on heat setting. The boiler was repaired on the 4th January. On the evening of the 5th January, the boiler conked again - this time a different fault - no blown air working, but the boiler was able to heat water using either gas or electric power. I cannot get a repair effected for a couple of weeks as I am away, but once again the £9.99 fan heater is doing the business, plus the roof aircon. My point here whilst the boiler was fully operations on the morning of the 5th January, it was not so later in the day - things do breakdown. Maybe, on the part of the hire firm, they should leave a small fan heater in the van as a "back up plan", but on the other hand, anything from the water pump to the oven could conk out, so how many back up plans should one carry? In order to assist with keeping the van warm, I filled my 20 litre jerrican with hot water from the site facilities and left this in the rear garage overnight - like a hot water bottle!

A couple of years ago I had problems with habitation equipment and through a "help me" post on MHF, I was able to do a temporary fix until an Italian dealer could work on the vehicle. Most parts such as Truma, Thetford, Fiamma etc are common to many vehicles irrespective of the country of manufacture of the motorhome.

If I hired a motorhome, I would expect to see everything working at the start of the hire period - just like Enterprise go through the car on a car rental etc. Was this done with the motorhome hire?

I suspect that given Keith hired a motorhome, he does not own one and thus may not have as "much as experience" as some of us in respect of faults, a back up plan and so on. Also, as he was in France, a quick connection to the internet for a "help me" post may not have been possible.

In respect of a resolution, I would try to resolve this at an amicable level first, for example a free hire or something. The credit card option may apply to this scenario - check with your bank.

Did the hire firm OWN the motorhome, or was the hire firm a third party acting as agent for individuals who rent out their motorhomes to generate income?

Russell


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Whilst not condoning the lack of gas heating, most modern vans have two forms of heating, gas and electric.
> 
> Peter


Peter,

Whilst I agree with most of your reply, I should make it clear that a high proportion of motorhomes for hire in the UK are budget Italian vans, which do not have the electric heating option that is fitted to British vans.

Gerry


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies and comments.

Just a few points about the hire -

We are relative newbies to MHs with just a couple of holidays using them before this trip.
We had hired the same vehicle in July with no problems.
We had to wait over 2 and 1/2 hours with no access to the vehicle when picking up the MH while a new water pump was fitted.
We were then very late for the time of our original Channel crossing. 
We had no reason to think we would need to check everything as the owners had had ample time to check everything themselves.
How do you check everything? - every bulb/toilet flushes/oven works/fridge cools to correct temperature/shower works/etc?
How long would all that take?
We had no access to the Internet and it's not very easy to find a dealer/garage/electrician in France in the holiday period between Christmas and New Year and also my French language skills are minimal.
I checked fuses/gas connections/loose wiring and anything else accessible with no success.
We had made arrangements to take the dog to the Vet later in the holiday and this would have been no problem or caused delays.
The day we returned was New Years Day and the following day was a Bank holiday Sunday - so the MH stayed on our drive until the owners premises were open the following day.

Hope that answers some of your questions.


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

I sympathise with you Keith.
As you say your not experienced so you expect the hire company to have checked the van out ready for collection on time.
I cannot believe how many of the replies to your post are so uncaring.
Don't let this put you off, put it down to experience.


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## hireme (Sep 10, 2010)

I am sure we will all sympathise with Keith, no one would want this to happen BUT.
There is no known way to predict the demise of a water pump and it sounds like the problem was resolved ASAP.
The average handover time is between 60 to 90 minuets, this depends on the ability of the hirer to take in the information and I am of the opinion only, at best 50% sinks in, hence we supply a manual, it does not stop the phone calls, it just slows them down. The most useful paragraph indicated that if the water system was not working the first thing to check is in fact there is water in the tank!!!
I am sure the other comments on other types of heating have some relevance, but am surprised the company had no useful suggestions or failing that the camp owner may have had a temporary solution. I will not try and defend the company, but it is difficult to cure a problem when the Motorhome is in Europe. I think we can all learn from this and we will certainly include a small heater for our winter hires.
I hope this will not put you off this wonderful hobby.
Regards
Tel


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

I have sympathy with the hirers of the motorhome.

I hired a motorhome in 2009 and, yes, it does take an hour for the handover, while they show you how everything works.

But this is still not enough time to check that everything does work.

For example, the van I hired :-

The fridge did not work - I collected the van 18 hours before leaving, so that I had time to fill it and check things worked - the fridge continued to not work, so that in the end, I had to drive back to the hiring place for an engineer to work on it for an hour before I left for the Tunnel 

- like this hirer, everyone knows that a hirer is going to use a fridge - I'm surprised that they don't run the fridge for the day before you pick it up, so that they know it's working, and so that it's already cold, because as we all know, it takes 24 hours to get fully cold

There was a DVD in the TV, which didn't work at all. It was completely broken. As I was going to France and couldn't get terrestrial TV, and was travelling alone, I had taken about 20 DVDs with me for my 6 week trip - it was a complete pain that ther was no DVD to watch at all. 

They showed me how to turn around one of the cab seats - the one which worked! The other one was completely jammed and wouldn't turn round at all! 

Then, during the trip, the water completely broke - now in this case, it broke while I was away, so fair enough, things like this happen. I contacted them and said that if they could locate a garage or dealer who could fix it, I would drive it there and have it fixed for them. I was calling on my mobile phone from abroad and didn't have the internet. They weren't interested. I tried to get people on sites to help me - we got out tools etc, but no one could help, and it really needed to go to a motorhome garage. But they were not interested in the slightest in locating one for me. 

I then had a few weeks with no water - as if I turned on the pump, it pumped all over the floor and soaked everything to about 1 inch deep. This meant I then had no working toilet, no shower, and the thing which bothered me the most, not being able to wash my hands whilst cooking - eg after handling raw meat and then cutting veg. 


In the case of this hirer - in December the advertised heating should work. If it does not work, you should phone and tell them, ask for advice, and ask them how to get it fixed. If it cannot be fixed, and there are no other solutions (frankly buying a heater and putting in a van is not really a solution - amps can be low, there can be dangers and so on ) so that you have to bring the motorhome back, you should definitely expect a full refund, plus some compensation for your wasted time, holiday, and vet bills and Eurotunnel fare. 

Call your credit card company and put the amount into dispute.

Write to the motorhome company setting out your concerns and ask them for the money back and some extra compensation. Say that you expect to hear from them within 28 days or you'll be forced to sue them in the small claims court.


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