# sat on C.C Site no electric!!!!



## squibnocket

Well here we are, 10.30 pm on a cc site with no electric and the site warden refuses to replace the 64 amp fuse, after admitting he has another!! Where do we stand (apart from the gas fire) we were thinking in legalities. 

Hope you can advise...


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## DABurleigh

A 64 amp fuse? 

Not simply resetting a breaker on a post (4*16 amps)?

It depends on why it blows. Maybe the problem is with one of the connected vans; it usually is.

Dave


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## philoaks

Will your hookup lead reach to another post where the supply is still on?


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## roamingsue

Surely there is more to this story? It sounds like to me that the fus?e blowing indicates a fault which needs to be fixed before the fuse is replaced. Why would a CC warden otherwise refuse to connect back the supply? Makes no sense


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## squibnocket

Hi Dave, There are 10 (ten) vans on the one circuit all of which are without electric, the site supplies 16 amp per unit, The van next to us he is an electrician, and he said something about it being a "diversity system" in other words they hope not everyone will put a load on the system all at once, So here we are getting colder by the minute, as our gas is now depleted.


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## asprn

squibnocket said:


> So here we are getting colder by the minute, as our gas is now depleted.


Always worth ensuring you have more than a few hours' supply of gas, in case of emergencies. I found that out the hard way too.

Dougie.


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## Weareoff

squibnocket said:


> Well here we are, 10.30 pm on a cc site with no electric and the site warden refuses to replace the 64 amp fuse, after admitting he has another!! Where do we stand (apart from the gas fire) we were thinking in legalities.
> 
> Hope you can advise...


Calm down, calm down Squibnocket.......tomorrow is another day!


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## Fatalhud

He most likely knows that if he replaces it, it will blow again because everyone will still want there heaters on



If it was me I would be tucked up under me quilt all warm and cosy :wink: 

Alan H


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## gaspode

Ten users expecting to be able to use 16a each on a circuit fused at 64a - that sounds like asking for trouble on a cold night. :roll: 

It's a common method of fusing circuits but the odds on yours seem a bit loaded in favour of the supplier. If there are ten of you affected, why not get the ladies together and send them to knock on the wardens door, it's amazing what quick results ten cold women can achieve when roused. :wink:

The answer of course is that if he did replace the fuse, it'd almost certainly blow again almost immediately because the circuit is woefully inadequate for the job it's intended to do.


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## aultymer

> we were thinking in legalities.


Sign of the times!!
Used to be we would be asked for tips on keeping warm.


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## Hobbyfan

I cannot believe for a second that the warden is simply being obstructive. There's no point in him replacing the fuse if he knows that it's going to blow immediately, and as you say, it's his last one.

Let's hope that you've enough gas to last the night!

I also find it hard to believe that the circuit is inadequate. That's never been my impression on CC sites where, even in the coldest weather, we've always had power.

It's possible that there is simply a fault and that it's just bad luck. Or it could be one of your neighbours who has a fault in his 'van's electrics.

Anyway, I hope that you manage to keep warm!


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## sallytrafic

The knee jerk reaction to change a blown fuse without checking the circuit (and we've all done it) is wrong. Fuses blow because of overloading it is important to find out why.

I expect a cold night caused people to demand more current in which case after say, a couple of minutes on 100A, the 64A fuse gave up the ghost. In that case one or more cables may have been slightly stressed but its unlikely to be a problem other than reassessing the diversity. However and much more unlikely, it could blow for a more sinister reason cable damage for example and the fuse blows explosively with thousands of amps passing for a few milliseconds (see 'prospective short circuit current' for the installation). Replacing the fuse under those circumstances could be catastrophic. 

The warden probably has instructions not to change fuses until the circuits have been checked.


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## clodhopper2006

apart from overload a 64A fuse would blow under fault current too. If there is a short circuit the ensuing fault current would get quite high before the fuse blew. It would not go out with a whimper. He may have already tried one and got a nasty suprise.


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## tramp

FUSES are a safe guard........

Dont be selfish could you live with someones death just to keep warm :evil: as more people are reliant on electric it buggers belief to think what would happen if the national grid failed.

My tip try wildcamping more then you wont be reliant on anyone else again..... :lol: 

its a sad world we live in today.....


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## machilly

tramp said:


> FUSES are a safe guard........
> 
> Dont be selfish could you live with someones death just to keep warm :evil: as more people are reliant on electric it buggers belief to think what would happen if the national grid failed.
> 
> My tip try wildcamping more then you wont be reliant on anyone else again..... :lol:
> 
> its a sad world we live in today.....


What is wrong with you people....C C is a massive money making organisation and if there is a problem on this site they should be fixing it , Now! It is not in my opinion too much too ask to have an emergency electrician called out, but it could juist be that the warden oin this site is being bloody minde or frightened he'lll lose his bonus, If i was on the site my generator would be out, and if my gas was running out, I would demand the warden get a bottle out of the store, then I would demand a full refund, (goods are not fit for purpose etc).
So cut this guy some slack, I would not like to freeze my butt of in a vehicle, after all he might have health issues........

By the way name the site, we can all avoid it.....


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## peribro

I agree with the last poster - whilst it is understandable that the warden doesn't want to reconnect the supply, it sounds as if he is not being helpful in offering people alternative support. Unfortunately there are good wardens and bad wardens - at the very least, I would expect a reduction in the charge for those days with no hook up.


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## Hobbyfan

machilly said:


> What is wrong with you people....C C is a massive money making organisation and if there is a problem on this site they should be fixing it , Now! By the way name the site, we can all avoid it.....


What a rather intemperate rant!

Er, no it's not a massive money making operation! It's a mutual with all profits going back into developing the organisation.

How do you know that the warden wasn't doing everything possible to fix it, including trying to get an emergency call out?

Another example of people jumping to the worst possible conclusions without knowing the full facts.


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## eddievanbitz

machilly said:


> If i was on the site my generator would be out, and if my gas was running out, I would demand the warden get a bottle out of the store, then I would demand a full refund, (goods are not fit for purpose etc).


Thats a lot of demanding! For a situation that could be out of the wardens hands.

We tried to get an emergency plumber recently, it was virtually impossible. In the end we had to bribe the plumber that caused the problem in the first place to put right his own mistakes!

In the midst of our emergency, anyone that felt so hard done by and disgruntled would have been given their money back and told to clear off.

Not everything can be fixed immediately by throwing money at it, (except removing troublesome campsite guests :wink: ) when your trying to resolve an issue.

I agree with the warden in that a 64amp fuse at 220VAC is serious stuff and is not to be messed with.

Most motorhomes an happily maintain a level of comfort for the occupants for a couple of nights in the UK, regardless of the time of year without hook up surely?

Eddie


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## Mick757

While the warden is probably the last person to 'blame', you would think he would maybe be more helpful given the organisation that employs him.

Firstly, as its a CC site, id expect the leccy to be up to the job of supplying enough juice to ALL the pitch's on peak demand (notwithstanding folk who'd blow the national grid with all the gear they carry nowadays :roll: ). 
If theres a genuine fault, and this isnt the first time the fuse has blown, why wasnt it sorted? If its just happened, and unable to be looked at while the morning, the warden should maybe offer gas to those who are low (ultimately their own fault IMO), or try resite folk who for whatever reason really do need a supply. 
The CC may be a 'mutual set up that ploughs its takings back into the club', but its not skint, and not short of resources in emergency's, thats for sure. And, if this isnt a case of needing to 'plough money back towards the members', i dont know what is.


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## squibnocket

machilly said:


> What is wrong with you people....C C is a massive money making organisation and if there is a problem on this site they should be fixing it , Now! It is not in my opinion too much too ask to have an emergency electrician called out, but it could juist be that the warden oin this site is being bloody minde or frightened he'lll lose his bonus, If i was on the site my generator would be out, and if my gas was running out, I would demand the warden get a bottle out of the store, then I would demand a full refund, (goods are not fit for purpose etc).
> So cut this guy some slack, I would not like to freeze my butt of in a vehicle, after all he might have health issues........
> 
> By the way name the site, we can all avoid it.....


Thanks Machilly,It`s nice to know some of us still have some backbone in this country, instead of the "put-up and shut-up" attitude so prevalent today, simple fact is ,We paid for a service which was not provided,and if my original post was read correctly then others would recognise that we wanted advice about legalities, I.E does the C.C Have a complaints procedure, Finally thankyou for recognising that one of us may have a health issue!, You are correct in that assumption, My wife suffers with Raynards disease. severely affected by sudden drops in temprature..


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## sallytrafic

Mick757 said:


> While the warden is probably the last person to 'blame', you would think he would maybe be more helpful given the organisation that employs him.
> 
> Firstly, as its a CC site, id expect the leccy to be up to the job of supplying enough juice to ALL the pitch's on peak demand (notwithstanding folk who'd blow the national grid with all the gear they carry nowadays :roll: ).
> If theres a genuine fault, and this isnt the first time the fuse has blown, why wasnt it sorted? If its just happened, and unable to be looked at while the morning, the warden should maybe offer gas to those who are low (ultimately their own fault IMO), or try resite folk who for whatever reason really do need a supply.
> The CC may be a 'mutual set up that ploughs its takings back into the club', but its not skint, and not short of resources in emergency's, thats for sure. And, if this isnt a case of needing to 'plough money back towards the members', i dont know what is.


Nowhere does the electrical system allow for full power consumption from every outlet.

Do the sums, your house for example has probably got a 80A mains cut out (could be 100A) add up all the circuit breakers much more than 80 or 100. OR count up all the 13A sockets in your house compare it with the breaker protecting them.

Diversity calculations are everywhere, if they weren't electrical connections would be too costly to make.


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## eddievanbitz

squibnocket said:


> What is wrong with you people....C C is a massive money making organisation and if there is a problem on this site they should be fixing it , Now! It is not in my opinion too much too ask to have an emergency electrician called out, but it could juist be that the warden oin this site is being bloody minde or frightened he'lll lose his bonus, If i was on the site my generator would be out, and if my gas was running out, I would demand the warden get a bottle out of the store, then I would demand a full refund, (goods are not fit for purpose etc).
> So cut this guy some slack, I would not like to freeze my butt of in a vehicle, after all he might have health issues........
> 
> By the way name the site, we can all avoid it.....





> Thanks Machilly,It`s nice to know some of us still have some backbone in this country, instead of the "put-up and shut-up" attitude so prevalent today, simple fact is ,We paid for a service which was not provided,and if my original post was read correctly then others would recognise that we wanted advice about legalities, I.E does the C.C Have a complaints procedure, Finally thankyou for recognising that one of us may have a health issue!, You are correct in that assumption, My wife suffers with Raynards disease. severely affected by sudden drops in temprature..


Frankly I don't see it as a "backbone" issue quite the opposite in my opinion when your opening gambit was "no hook up! can I go legal"

I am sorry that your wife needs to be kept warm, that wasn't in the first post, but perhaps it is your responsibility to ensure that you have more than enough gas for any eventuality, rather than want to go legal when the power goes off!

Eddie


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## rayc

A couple of weeks ago we lost the power to our house, together with neighbours, for over 15 hours. It transpired something had blown in a sub station. The good old British blitz spirit took over and we all survived  

Lat weekend I was at a C&CC site and opted to be without EHU. Blown air heating on for long periods and 6 hours or so of DVD's and I still had battery power, and gas, at the end of the stay.

I suspect that all sites suffer from the same problem as the one in question, in that if all units demand maximum current that the circuit will overload. An educated guess tells me that the EHU charge, which is included in the pitch fee, does not cover the cost of the electricity consummed except in Summer months.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt in this age of expecting instant response to our complaints and requests. It is best to be prepared as things can go wrong e.g. road network blocked by snow, trains and flights delayed or God forbid a serious family life threatening event.
Being without EHU for a while, even of you have payed for it, is no big deal. It is onlly Autumn in UK not Winter in Siberia.


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## impala666

*Shocked or Gassed*

Was this post necessary ? It seems an unreasonable rant.
Why did the OP not name the site ?

OK there was a technical problem with the electrics at 10.30 pm...It is not reasonable to expect an emergency electrician to call at this time of night.

It does seem the electric supply point was overloaded ….complain to the CC..

The warden was right not to replace the fuse.

Surely the OP could have got a fresh bottle of gas from the warden and sorted out payment later. ??

Vans camping at this time of year should be self sufficient and carry enough gas before they camp for the night, especially if one of them is poorly.

Brian


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## peedee

Its more than likely that the mains supply to the site is limited. This works down the chain and results in a limit on each bollard. 10 vans running 2Kw will result in excess of 80 amps so I am not surprised that the fuse blew. If it was a faulty van I would expect the circuit breaker on the bollard to trip not the 64 amp fuse. The club does point out that it is not possible to give everone 16 amps simultaneously and does not guarantee this. It has looked at increasing feed to 32 amps but like I say the local distribution network is often the limiting factor. 

My view you should have had plenty of gas or tried to use less electric by swithing heating to 1Kw. I had no problem coping with below zero temperatures and just topped up with gas when I left site yesterday.

peedee


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## aultymer

> My wife suffers with Raynards disease. severely affected by sudden drops in temprature..


Had you given this information in your first post and asked if there was anyone nearby who could help, eg, bring you gas bottle or provide a working hook up, then I am sure the tone of this thread would have been quite different.
It is not a case of a 'put up and shut up attitude' it is a case of 'sh1t happens, how do we resolve it' without putting more money into lawyers pockets.
Your wifes condition would not be helped one jot by your keeness to seek legal redress - in fact you may only have increased her stress level.
Unless you have a very sub standard van then there will be no 'sudden' change in temperature and a dive under the duvet when the power went off would have prevented any heat loss.
You have my sympathies for your predicament but as I suggested before it is a sad indictment of our times when the first reaction is not to seek help but to seek legal advice.


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## Freddiebooks

Backbone ???

I'm not sure if i'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but if i am i am sorry......

But are you suggesting looking into 'legal action' for having no electric ?? And then suggesting you have 'backbone' ? You have either been watching too much daytime tv adverts, or your American !!

Here would be my course of action on the limited knowledge i have of the incident.

Look into moving site.

Look for nearest LPG/Calor dealer. (not that i would ever go camping this time of year with limited amount of gas)

And the later is even more important due to your wifes condition. 

Perhaps have a look in the mirror first before you think about blaming those around you. 

Which site is it ?

Freddieblameless


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## bigfoot

I was staying at Abbey Wood some years ago during the October half term weekend. There was a line of about 6 caravans with every conceivable electrical appliance imaginable. One in particular close to our Hymer had three teenage girls and one was watching the TV another, was on her laptop and the third was drying her her,and before you suggest,I was not perving them it was my wife's observation. No doubt heat was on as well. The people in the adjacent van returned and entered, mrs put the kettle on an the whole line blew,we were on the end. This occoured frequently during the course of our stay. I mentioned it to one of the site staff and they said that it has always been a problem when the site is 
fulll as the breakers keep tripping,they were due for replacement.
Being ex-tent campers we are used to good stewardship of our resources and also the Hymer is very well insulated and there is the gas fire.
The high capacity fuses are a fair few quid and not a card of fuse wire for a few pence. We just went out more and used the pub or restaurants heating.


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## Freddiebooks

Bigfoot wrote ........_and before you suggest,I was not perving _

Well if it'd been me BF, i'd have had the binos out.


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## ICDSUN

Hi

Happy to see you survived the night and hopefully not to uncomfortable for your wife.

The EHU failing is likely to become more frequent I believe given the levels of dependency that some caravans and MH's need, would it be prudent for you to invest in extra gas or even a small silent genny or a diesel heater as a backup given your good ladies needs, no warden or other camper would have an issue if you needed to run a decent silent genny on medical grounds when made aware

Chris


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## SpeedyDux

In the interests of fairness:

The time has come to downrate the EHU trips on the CC sites. If 10 units with EHU are sharing the same circuit and the supply is on a 64 amp fuse, simple arithmetic suggest that each EHU socket should be limited to @ 6 amps not 16 amps. 

Otherwise four outfits hogging their full 16 amps means six other outfits on EHU cannot use any electricity or just a nominal amount for their lights, and have to use gas for everything else. 

Crazy.

SD


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## barryd

Good luck with complaining to the CC. I have sent them several emails about the rubbish website. Never had a reply.

Dont see what all the fuss is about really. I dont stay on CC sites (well no campsites really) but Im sure the warden was doing what he thought best. Hes not going to be happy about 10 people complaining and pestering him so I think if he could have fixed it there and then he would of for a quiet life. Clearly he couldnt do it. Maybe he wasnt allowed (H&S and all that). He should have perhaps offered those who needed it gas though.

We always use our Gas fire even on hookup. Its warmer and nicer. I usually tell Mrs D to use the gas kettle as well unless we know we are on 16amp and there is nothing else running. Some of the CL's we stay on only charge a few quid and I dont want to use it just because Im paying for it as Im sure they can hardly make any money out of it. Prefer the ones without EHU anyway.


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## peejay

As said, not the wardens fault.

However, The Caravan Club have a supposedly fair policy of charging for electricity in accordance with Ofgem (?) regulations.
They charge for 16amp elctricity whether you want it or not, isn't it reasonable then to expect every unit on a spur to be able to use this amount at the same time without blowing the fuse?
Otherwise they should charge less for their leccy.

Pete


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## barryd

SpeedyDux said:


> In the interests of fairness:
> 
> The time has come to downrate the EHU trips on the CC sites. If 10 units with EHU are sharing the same circuit and the supply is on a 64 amp fuse, simple arithmetic suggest that each EHU socket should be limited to @ 6 amps not 16 amps.
> 
> Otherwise four outfits hogging their full 16 amps means six other outfits on EHU cannot use any electricity or just a nominal amount for their lights, and have to use gas for everything else.
> 
> Crazy.
> 
> SD


What an excellent idea. When we are on 6amps you know not to use a kettle etc. All I bothered about is the battery charging, a few LED bulbs and a low powered TV. Your right. If it were more limited people would have to compromise and only the trip switch on the post would trip. People would soon learn and perhaps fees would go down on campsites?


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## relay

CC sites used to have posters in the shower blocks asking everyone not to use more than 1KW at a time - haven't seen these lately - perhaps they need to stick them back up! 

-H


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## peedee

More like time for metered electricity to each pitch  

peedee


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## grandadbaza

*electricity*

Really cant understan why the OP has not given name of site??? :?

Baza :?


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## Hobbyfan

I know nothing about the supply of electricity. What I do know about is basic fairness. No one knows yet what the problem is. It may well have been something that was completely out of the hands of the warden.

It's all very well saying, for instance, that my cable supplier has a contract with me to supply broadband but, if a terrorist blows up the local sub-station, or there's a sudden flood caused by something else beyond anyone's control, what is he supposed to do?

Many of the people in this thread probably have a contract to go into work each day, but if someone crashes into their car, they won't be able to fulfil their contract but would, no doubt, expect their employer to be reasonable.

Time and time again we read of members who aren't fair enough to get the full facts before they denigrate a person or an organisation. That says more about them than the CC or any other body.

I have allows believed that the concept that one is innocent until proven guilty is a basic and fundamental pillar of our society. I wish that others would try remember that.


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## pieterv

peejay said:


> As said, not the wardens fault.
> 
> However, The Caravan Club have a supposedly fair policy of charging for electricity in accordance with Ofgem (?) regulations.
> They charge for 16amp elctricity whether you want it or not, isn't it reasonable then to expect every unit on a spur to be able to use this amount at the same time without blowing the fuse?
> Otherwise they should charge less for their leccy.
> 
> Pete


Do they indeed charge for 16A?

16A at 230V equals 3.68kW, if you were to use that 24h a day, that is 88Kwh.

Not sure what commercial rates for electricity are, but if we say 10p per kWh, than this would equal £8.80.

I don't think if you were to split up the site fee, electricity would equal that much.

And I really do think that that kind of usage in a van would be excessive. Maybe the answer is in metering it, and have us pay for what we actually use.

Pieter


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## barryd

When I used to have a boat on the Marina on Windermere the leccy was metered. It looked quite complicated. I imagine it would be very expensive to put in. Then again they charged a flipping fortune for it.


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## rayc

peejay said:


> As said, not the wardens fault.
> 
> However, The Caravan Club have a supposedly fair policy of charging for electricity in accordance with Ofgem (?) regulations.
> They charge for 16amp elctricity whether you want it or not, isn't it reasonable then to expect every unit on a spur to be able to use this amount at the same time without blowing the fuse?
> Otherwise they should charge less for their leccy.
> 
> Pete


Pete, Do they actually imply, or guarantee, that the electricity element included in the pitch fee pays for 16amps 24/7?

Say the charge is £3 per night how much would drawing 16A for 24 hours actually cost? 
[My estimates for consumption is 16A for 1 hour @230v = 3.5kw/h approx. For 24 hours that is 80+ kw/h.
My domestic bill charges 11.5p per unit [1 kw/h] so a guaranteed supply of 16A would cost approx. £8 per night].

Edited to say sorry I see that Pieter has already said the same thing in his post.


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## JohnGun

Surely the main reason most of us have purchased Motorhomes is to be self sufficient, i know that was our reason, given this , could the op not cope for a night or two without ehu, personally, when we go to a site, sometimes we use ehu, however most of the time we dont bother, as for the gas running out, no forward planning, although i could use other words/phrases to describe it.

My god, who doesnt carry 2 tanks of gas? one connected, and the other one full ALL THE TIME, for such eventualities.


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## peejay

rayc said:


> peejay said:
> 
> 
> 
> As said, not the wardens fault.
> 
> However, The Caravan Club have a supposedly fair policy of charging for electricity in accordance with Ofgem (?) regulations.
> They charge for 16amp elctricity whether you want it or not, isn't it reasonable then to expect every unit on a spur to be able to use this amount at the same time without blowing the fuse?
> Otherwise they should charge less for their leccy.
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> Pete, Do they actually imply, or guarantee, that the electricity element included in the pitch fee pays for 16amps 24/7?
> 
> Say the charge is £3 per night how much would drawing 16A for 24 hours actually cost?
> [My estimates for consumption is 16A for 1 hour @230v = 3.5kw/h approx. For 24 hours that is 80+ kw/h.
> My domestic bill charges 11.5p per unit [1 kw/h] so a guaranteed supply of 16A would cost approx. £8 per night].
Click to expand...

I don't know and you're probably right, but how much are they actually charging you for electricity within the pitch fee? That is never stated as far as I have seen?

Edit - sorry Pieter, missed your post as well.

Metering would be great but as said, but I would think the costs involved would be horrendous.

I had a letter published in the magazine back in 2005 reference lowering electricity to around 8amps and allowing members to reset trips themselves amongst other issues, here is the snipped reply...

"The reduction of power at
EHUs would be completely
contrary to our policy of
providing an adequate supply,
and thus a retrograde step in
providing the level of service
expected by members. It
would also have Health and
Safety implications as
frequent trip-outs could
occur. It is important for
wardens to be aware when
trip-outs take place so they
can advise when the supply is
falling below the level of
demand"

Pete


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## Chudders

As one who carries out electrical testing, inspection and certification including caravan sites. It is common to provide 16 amp hook ups that are on a radial circuit and if all the hook ups use the max 16amps then the fuse/breaker protecting that circuit will fail due to overload. This is a common problem as winter approaches when everyone suddenly turns on all their electric heating, boils the kettle etc. etc.
This has happened on many sites unfortunately. I did advise one site to reduce the individual bollard supply to 10 amp breakers. This is then self regulating but allow people access to the bollard breaker so they can re set. People soon learn to turn off a bit of heating before boiling a kettle.
Now the replacement of a 64 amp, 80 amp or 100 amp HRC fuse can be frought with danger. It is a requirement of The Electricity at Work Regulations as well as Health and Safety legislation that when these fuses are replaced personal protective equipment should be worn. ie Goggles, and gloves. (Not all operatives do this however and are prepared to take a risk) A 64 amp fuse can make a hell of a spark when inserted and if it ruptures due to a short circuit the resultant flash is not necessarily contained within the fuse housing. If hot metal hits you in the eye its gonna do some damage. 
Whether the warden should have made arrangments to call an electrician is another matter. I would suggest that he should not replace it himself if not qualified.
Not going to get into the legalities of providing a continuous supply and whether campers are entitled to a continuous 16 amp supply. I have no idea. From my experience I doubt that there are many sites that would be able to provide a continuous 16 amp to every hook up. The determining factor to the fuse protecting the supply to the whole circuit is cable size, distance, volt drop, earth fault loop impedance, etc etc. If a larger fuse is installed than is appropriate to the factors mentioned then it will fail the inspection and test and believe me this does happen.
Dave


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## barryd

From what Chudders has said the Warden did the right thing then unless he is qualified as a sparky. I certainly wouldnt go near it!


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## eddievanbitz

Chudders said:


> This has happened on many sites unfortunately. I did advise one site to reduce the individual bollard supply to 10 amp breakers. This is then self regulating but allow people access to the bollard breaker so they can re set. People soon learn to turn off a bit of heating before boiling a kettle.
> Dave


This is what we have done. We provisioned for 16amp with a 75% diversity, and gave every pitch their own 10amp MCB which they can get up and reset themsleves as many times as they like until they realise that having the hairdryer, toaster and kettle on all at the same time is simply not an option!

Many people forget that their battery charger, their fridge freezer, their heating element in the heating system also eat into their supply!

None of us must forget that we are, when all said and done running our vans off of long extension leads!

Eddie


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## rupert1

Their are a few things about the original post that do not make much sense, more to this than poster is saying. As far as I am aware each EHU on CC sites have a seperate trip so if you go over 16a it will trip out without effecting anyone else. That ten EHU are covered by a single 64 amp fuse I would also doubt. If this main fuse blows, whatever its value then something could be seriously wrong, a problem with one M/H or caravan on one EHU would simply trip that EHU. I see no reason why the warden could not try to replace it, their will be an isolation switch for the 64a fuse so no danger to the warden. If it blows for a second time then the warden would have to call out an electrician. Maybe he tried this, if so at 10pm not much he can do. Is their a legal redress would seriously doubt it and it would be interesting to hear the outcome from original poster and what site it was.


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## 113016

While I sympathise with the plight of paying for something and not getting it, there is obviously a problem.
Our vans are made for running on 12 volt and we have only a couple of days ago returned from a weeks wilding with no mains power and it was not a problem at all, in fact the blow hot air was warmer than on mains.
I can't at all see a problem for one night.

edit
I did cheat after a couple of nights and ran the genny during daytime to recharge the battery after using the blow heating extensively.


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## Zebedee

It has already said in several posts that some folk always look first for someone else to blame, rather than taking responsibility for their own wellbeing. Without knowing all the details, that accusation should not necessarily be made in this instance, although it is a very valid general comment.

I wonder if some folk have any inkling of the constraints CC wardens are *forced *to work under! 8O

Having been (very courteously) refused on H & S grounds by a warden, the loan of a step ladder to adjust my reversing camera, we got chatting about stupid H & S regulations . . . . as you do! :wink:

Some of his site lights were about eight feet**** off the ground, and situated over level, tarmaced open space. When the bulbs needed replacing he got sturdy wooden box of about 18" high to stand on, and was able to reach the light fittings and easily replace the bulbs. _(He was so annoyed by what ensued that he even pointed out the box, and it was perfectly strong and stable.)_

Some do-gooder pillock of a member reported him, and he received a serious warning from the Club and was ordered to get in a Cherry Picker, with its operator, to change the bulbs at a cost of several hundred pounds each time he needed it. 8O

You couldn't make it up, but it perfectly illustrates a probably scenario where the OP found himself shivering with cold. 8O

Scene :- Someone had previously "gone legal" and cost the Club a small fortune, so in future they make sure they cover their own back. It was obvious there could be a risk to campers from a faulty circuit, so everything had to be "by the book" . . . which means of course, no room for common sense and a long delay while the "approved" instructions were followed to the letter!

Regrettably we (as a society) bring it upon ourselves, and many of the silly rules and regulations we all have to suffer have been instigated by someone "going legal"!

A demonstrable fact of modern life I fear, further fuelled by all the "_No win - no fee_" adverts on the telly!.

Dave 

Edit. **** For accuracy make that nine feet. I could very nearly reach from the ground and I'm six foot three!


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## bigbazza

From the op's first post it doesn't sound like the warden explained that he had an electrical problem because i'm sure most people would accept the situation had it been fully explained.

We have never wild camped and as far as we know never intend to.
The sites we stay on are choosen because of the facilities they offer.
We have never used our gas supply since starting this pastime and wouldn't stay at places where we had to.
(This is our choice)
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect what pay for unless there's an emergency were as I said earlier would be acceptable to all if given the proper facts.

Please give the op a break, he obviously wasn't prepared for this. Some of us are not perfect


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## Zebedee

bigbazza said:


> Please give the op a break, he obviously wasn't prepared for this. Some of us are not perfect


That's what I was saying in such a roundabout way Baz, but trying not to blame either side! 

We are not privy to all the facts, and without them we cannot make informed judgements and should not blame either party based on guesswork! 8O

For all we know the OP was simply unaware that his full bottles of Butane start giving up the ghost around this time of year - and he can't be blamed for not knowing.

The warden may well have been instructed not to reveal that there was an electrical problem, for fear of the possible litigious consequences these days! 8O

We simply don't know all the facts - and never will! :wink:

Dave


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## olley

Zebedee said:


> Some of his site lights were about eight feet**** off the ground, and situated over level, tarmaced open space. When the bulbs needed replacing he got sturdy wooden box of about 18" high to stand on, and was able to reach the light fittings and easily replace the bulbs. _(He was so annoyed by what ensued that he even pointed out the box, and it was perfectly strong and stable.)_
> 
> Dave
> 
> Edit. **** For accuracy make that nine feet. I could very nearly reach from the ground and I'm six foot three!


My mate Lance used to change the bulbs in the Path lights himself on the quiet, after his sheltered housing scheme got a £120 bill for changing a single light bulb, and the electrician only used a ladder not a cherry picker.

Olley


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## peedee

It would still be interesting to know which site it was! Most CC sites carry gas supplies and even if the OP only had butaine I am sure under the circumstances it could have been swapped for a full propane one.

peedee


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## Freddiebooks

Zebedee said:


> bigbazza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please give the op a break, he obviously wasn't prepared for this. Some of us are not perfect
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I was saying in such a roundabout way Baz, but trying not to blame either side!
> 
> We are not privy to all the facts, and without them we cannot make informed judgements and should not blame either party based on guesswork! 8O
> 
> For all we know the OP was simply unaware that his full bottles of Butane start giving up the ghost around this time of year - and he can't be blamed for not knowing.
> 
> The warden may well have been instructed not to reveal that there was an electrical problem, for fear of the possible litigious consequences these days! 8O
> 
> We simply don't know all the facts - and never will! :wink:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

I know what you mean Zeb,

But the only reason the post lifted my eye brow was the word "legalities".

And i'm still not sure what he mean't by it.

Worst case scenario..... he sued the Caravan Club, for having no electric.

Would this now mean that the CC is in danger everytime the sparks go out, that they are going to lose a stack of cash ?

If so, then there will be only one place that money is coming from.

And it'll mean higher site fees for everyone. And why, cause certain individuals don't have a brain. And I for one am not willing to pay people for having no brains.

So any idea of suing for such a trivial matter needs to be stamped out ASAP !!!

The few cannot ruin it for the majority.

All this is assuming the original posters intentions were as above.

Freddiebooks


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## sallytrafic

Just an aside on Diversity calculations/provisions.

You will have seen that Eddie allowed for 75% diversity and restricted his Bollards to 10A with a resettable MCB. That shows excellent sense but it is often forgotten that when doing diversity calculations you have to consider the local situation.

Take a cooker, if you add up all the rings oven grill etc they often come to well over the rating of the supply to that cooker. It is extremely unlikely that you will use everything at once. Even if everything is switched on then individual thermostats will be switching the supplies to each element off and on so the statistical chances of them all being on at once is very low. So you could manufacture a cooker with a diversity of 80% and it would never cause a problem.

BUT

Take a caravan site

In the summer even with full occupancy and a number of vans with aircon you aren't going to be using all the power at once so you can get away with a low diversity.

In the winter, well mostly people will take more power but you won't have 100% occupancy so *as long as the units are spread out on different circuits * again you can get away with low diversity

However, what often happens is that in the winter all the pitches in use are concentrated in one area (say just the hardstandings) then if these are on the same circuit, in a cold snap, using a low diversity percentage, there might be overloading and trip outs. The same applies if you have a special event like at New Year and your site is full to capacity.


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## oldun

gaspode said:


> Ten users expecting to be able to use 16a each on a circuit fused at 64a - that sounds like asking for trouble on a cold night. :roll:
> 
> It's a common method of fusing circuits but the odds on yours seem a bit loaded in favour of the supplier. If there are ten of you affected, why not get the ladies together and send them to knock on the wardens door, it's amazing what quick results ten cold women can achieve when roused. :wink:
> 
> The answer of course is that if he did replace the fuse, it'd almost certainly blow again almost immediately because the circuit is woefully inadequate for the job it's intended to do.


The CC often have notices displayed asking members to be economical with electricity saying that they only have an average supply of around 6 amps.


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