# Rapido payload



## wp1234

Given the really low payload on some of the A Class rapido models (as low as 300 kgs) what does the panel consider as an acceptable payload , would 500 kg be about right , is it liveable with ? 

I've been told that upgrading the GVW 3500 kg chassis to GVW 3650 kg chassis is just a paperwork excersise ... is this right ?


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## GEMMY

Rapido payload...............generally crap!!!!!!!!!!!

tony


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## salomon

If I understand correctly, the payload needs to include everything but the driver ? In France you often have to add the oven and all sorts of other stuff into payload...Tv etc etc
In our case , a full fuel tank & full water tank would add 300kg. Me ( passenger) plus 2 dogs would be another 100 kg.
I assumed this when we chose our van which has a payload of ~ 1100kg.

IMO 500kg does not get you very far.


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## rayc

It is not 3650kg on every model. On the 6 & 8 & 9DF series it is but on the 70 and 90 series it is 3700kg. The difference is I think because the 3650kg are on the Fiat Standard Chassis whilst the 37ookg are on the Fiat Camper Light chassis.

Be very careful as the MIRO weights include reduced fresh water. The payload figures take into account this lower level. They are 6 series 90% of 120ltrs, 70 series 20/120, 8 series 50/120, 9 series 50/120, 90 series 20/120 where the first figure is the amount and the second the capacity.

In my honest opinion the A classes on 3500kg are just not viable, 3650/3700 possibly. I am considering the same thing in a couple of years and would like to downsize to 3500kg but I have come to the conclusion that only the 6 series and possibly the 7 series are viable.

edited to say that the 70 and 90 models are on the alko chassis andnot Fiat camper light chassis


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## djp30

Work on a figure of 200kg for equiptment plus 150kg per person as an absolute minimum. Don't trust the brochure quoted MIRO, get it weighed.
For 2 adults 1 child & 2 dogs I need 800kg. extra if we want bikes etc.


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## GEMMY

I'm happy with my 1 tonne payload, god help me if I fail the 70 yr old test :roll: 

tony


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## rayc

> salomon said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly, the payload needs to include everything but the driver ? In France you often have to add the oven and all sorts of other stuff into payload...Tv etc etc
> In our case , a full fuel tank & full water tank would add 300kg. Me ( passenger) plus 2 dogs would be another 100 kg.
> 
> 
> 
> Manufactures quote their MIRO in accordance with EC directive 92/21. Rapido state "this includes the vehicle in working order, the driver 75kg, the full gas bottle, fresh water at reduced levels of 20l or 50l depending on model, fuel tank 90% capacity with a tolerance of +/-5%. [I believe it also includes the single habitation battery].
> 
> Anything on the option list adds weight to this and reduces the payload remaining.
> Typical quoted MIRO's in their ranges are 6 series 3100kg, 70 series 3150kg, 8 series 3140 kg, 9 df series 3200kg and 90 series 3230 kg.
> 
> The sums are easy to do and even with the lower water quantities and no +5% increase in MIRO 3500kg will be hard to maintain especially on the A classes.
Click to expand...


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## gaspode

> It is not 3650kg on every model. On the 6 & 8 & 9DF series it is but on the 70 and 90 series it is 3700kg. The difference is I think because the 3650kg are on the Fiat Standard Chassis whilst the 37ookg are on the Fiat Camper Light chassis


Do any of the 7DF or 9DF series use a Fiat chassis Ray? Surely you can't get a full double floor on the Fiat chassis?
Our 2011 7066DF is on the Alko light chassis and has an option from new of 3500kg or 3700kg, the 3500 is simply a 3700 with a de-rating sticker so only a paper exercise to change between the two.

We run on 3500kg without a problem, just needs some care in loading to keep legal. No good if you want to carry heavy scooters or the like of course.


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## GEMMY

It's this plus or minus 5% that gets me :roll: That could be 150/200 kg leaving bugger all payload :roll: 

tony


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## duxdeluxe

GEMMY said:


> It's this plus or minus 5% that gets me :roll: That could be 150/200 kg leaving bugger all payload :roll:
> 
> tony


And guess which way the +/- 5% goes.........

We have a Pilote A Class and when purchased we simply got it registered at 3650kg as this was simply a new COC from Pilote and no issue for the dealer. Fully loaded across a weighbridge left us with zero to spare. Stated weight was 3150, but add an awning, second leisure battery, cooker, beany box, grp sides instead of aluminium and the payload simply disappeared. Add in the fact that it is quoted with 20 litres of water instead of 130 (effectively empty as the Truma takes 10 litres) and you can see the problem.

We had it uprated to 3850 courtesy of higher load rear tyres, air assist and SV tech, which is maximum of the Fiat camper chassis with 15" wheels. As usual, it is the rear axle loading that is the problem. At least now we can fit a towbar as we have over 250kg spare at the back instead of zero. Front never an issue as this was weighed twice at about 1650kg with a max of 1850 allowed.


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## wp1234

duxdeluxe said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's this plus or minus 5% that gets me :roll: That could be 150/200 kg leaving bugger all payload :roll:
> 
> tony
> 
> 
> 
> We had it uprated to 3850 courtesy of higher load rear tyres, air assist and SV tech, which is maximum of the Fiat camper chassis with 15" wheels. As usual, it is the rear axle loading that is the problem. At least now we can fit a towbar as we have over 250kg spare at the back instead of zero. Front never an issue as this was weighed twice at about 1650kg with a max of 1850 allowed.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for all the input on this. 
You make a good point that adding the extras such as an awning , bike rack etc all these will soon make the payload fanish .Seems to me that if you want a Rapido A Class you need to upgrade to the Heavy 4500 Alko chassis @ about £2 k extra .

I wonder which A Class manufacturer is best at delivering a decent payload ?


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## rayc

> gaspode said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do any of the 7DF or 9DF series use a Fiat chassis Ray?
> 
> 
> 
> Ken, Refering the 2015 "Characteristic and Carriers by Model" it shows that the 70df-ff models come with the Low Profile Alko Chassis as standard as do the 90df models.
> The respective MIRO's are 3135kg and 3230kg.
> 
> In the document there is no mention of the 7df series, or in the brochure, so I believe there are no 7df models for 2015 only 70df-ff series i.e alko chassis models.
> 
> There is a 9df which has the Fiat Camper special chassis with extra wide rear track and technical double floor with a MIRO'sof approx 3145kg and as I said above the 90df series has the Alko chassis with MIRO 3230kg.
> 
> The OP's original interest was in the 8 series v 9 series and for comparison the 8 series has a 'standard chassis with extra wide track' with MIRO's around 3100kg.
> 
> The quoted MIRO's do not include things such as the 'UK pack 2015' which includes the oven at 15kg so that will detract from the payload.
> 
> Ray
Click to expand...


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## duxdeluxe

Quote......
I wonder which A Class manufacturer is best at delivering a decent payload ?

.....unquote

I think that Hymer advertise lightweight A classes, but the same caveats apply as with all the others.

Rayc - yes, the MIRO certainly for my Pilote was the bog standard van and the weight excluded the oven, beany box, GRP sides and second leisure battery. That's another 60 kg out of the window, then


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## Jean-Luc

Where has all the payload gone.

My 963F has a CoC mass in running order of 3,121kg and a lot more of the woodwork was of real wood than is the case these days.

As part of the registration process here it needed to be weighed for Revenue. 
This weigh was allowed to include fitted extras, which were:
awning, roof rails + ladder, , 2 X 110 ah batteries, fog lights, full UK specification (carpets, oven, etc).
However, the water tank had to be empty and no gas bottles on board but a full fuel tank was permitted.
The recorded weight was 3,100kg, which gave 400kg for people, water, gas and all the kit.

Mine is uprated to the optional 3,850kg. 
I occasionally check the actual weigh in full holiday trim on a local weighbridge, with full tanks (water and fuel), two full gas bottles, myself and herself and all kit for long-stay travelling, including two push bikes and sat dish. 
The weight is usually in the region of 3,800kg, giving a margin of about 50kg.
I once weighed all the books we carry (pre Kindle era) which came to over 14 kg 8O 

A near empty water tank when departing France on the way home allows another 100kg of payload for wine etc.


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## gaspode

> In the document there is no mention of the 7df series


It's a silent zero Ray. :lol:

For 7df read 70df.

For 9df read 90df. :wink:

All on Alko light chassis AFAIK.


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## wp1234

Just looked at the rest of the Rapido range at 90% of the have a rubish payload so my question is - does anyone buy a standard Rapido A Class? or does everyone upgrade to a heavier chassis ?


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## VanFlair

duxdeluxe said:


> Quote......
> I wonder which A Class manufacturer is best at delivering a decent payload ?
> 
> .....unquote
> 
> I think that Hymer advertise lightweight A classes, but the same caveats apply as with all the others.
> 
> Rayc - yes, the MIRO certainly for my Pilote was the bog standard van and the weight excluded the oven, beany box, GRP sides and second leisure battery. That's another 60 kg out of the window, then


Niesmann+Bischoff Arto range are around 800 to 1000KG payload a few are 1300 but only with chassis upgrade so as used they may have gone on the road at 300KG.
Niesmann+Bischoff Flair range are up to 2000KG ours is listed at 1400KG and without carrying too much rubbish we have easily used up 800KG of this some from the options list which is what you have to be careful of with any manufacturer.


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## rayc

> gaspode said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a silent zero Ray. :lol:
> 
> For 7df read 70df.
> 
> For 9df read 90df. :wink:
> 
> All on Alko light chassis AFAIK.
> 
> 
> 
> Ken, I have to confess that I have no idea what a silent zero is.
> 
> What I do know is that in the 2015 brochure and price list that there are two Series, the Series 9df and the Series 90df.
> The Series 9df consists of the 980df and the 990df and are on the A-class special chassis with extra wide track and technical double floor. This is specified as the Fiat light Chassis.
> The Series 90df consists of eight models 9083df, 9084df, 9094df 9090df, 9000dfh, 9066df, 9005dfh, 9060df Mobility. They are all on Alko chassis with double floor.
> 
> In the 2014 model line up there were two series the 7df and the 70df. The Series 7df consisted of the 766df and the 790df and were on the Fiat Light Chassis. Those models have been dropped for 2015. The Series 70 had the 7065, 7066, 7091, all on the Alko chassis. For 2015 there are the 7090df, 7090FF, 7066df, 7065FF all on the Alko chassis.
> 
> Ray
Click to expand...


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## wp1234

Does anyone reading this post have a Rapido 890 or 891 model ?
If so I would love to know how the payload works for you


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## wp1234

Well that's it the decision has been taken and im out of the Autotrail club and into the Rapido club . 

I've ordered the 990df at the NEC show with upgraded 4250kg chassis etc etc etc etc 

Locking forward to a May delivery .

Thanks all for your advice chaps.


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## rayc

> wp1234 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's it the decision has been taken and im out of the Autotrail club and into the Rapido club .
> 
> I've ordered the 990df at the NEC show with upgraded 4250kg chassis etc etc etc etc
> 
> Locking forward to a May delivery .
> 
> Thanks all for your advice chaps.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have done the right thing to get it on the 4250kg chassis if you could. The island bed is a great layout and it works for us. What engine did you opt for?
Click to expand...


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## wp1234

Went for the 150 in the end but also added the leather interior , solar panel etc etc etc .

I've got the 150 at the moment on the Autotrail Dakota and its a good engine with decent fuel economy .


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## jackie32

On same subject looking at buying a rapido 944 but have need to carry a scooter on tow bar weight in total about 140kg 
what do I need to be concerned about considering all comments about payload - am I correct in assuming that this vehicle will not suit 

thanks for reply


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## jackie32

being a little dense - perhaps someone could help

looking to buy second hand rapido 944

need to carry scooter on the back (not tow) and weight is approx. 
145kg

can this vehicle be legal with the normal extras on payload plus bike

many thanks


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## safariboy

When recently uprating our van we found that the rear axle load was the most significant. When you do a paper upgrade the axle loadings will normally stay the same.
With an end-kitchen van there does seem to be a potential problem with the rear axle loadings.


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