# still looking for new tyres - cant decide



## trek (May 1, 2005)

still looking for new tyres - can't decide  ( had settled on Conti Vanco Fourseson 2's but they were out of stock at AsdaTyres )

seen these All Season M+S Michelin tyres on a USA forum :-

Michelin LTX MS Defenders
http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/products/defender-ltx-m-s.html

6 year / 70,000 mile warranty maybe I can get some post brexit when we get new trade deal with USA

I have been considering a Viking Tyre ( never heard of them ) Fourtech Van all season tyre from Mytyres.co.uk which is identical to the General Tires Eurovan A/S both owned by Continental but the Viking is cheaper than the General

got to the point that I have started looking to see what tyres are fitted to the local delivery vans - I noticed that an Ocado Sprinter and an Asda Iveco were running on winter tyres in July and both sets of tyres being thrashed by curbing I assume to the point I couldn't read anything on the side walls


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I go for the cheapest possible, there is little or no difference that you can discern from driving at 60mph, I run at 5psi blow normal and get a nice soft ride, cornering feels the same as with any tyre I've ever used, I use black circle online and just get them fitted locally by one of their dealers, las lost cost me sub £400, why pay more unless it's a peeing contest, even then I'd win as I have money left to get a bigger willy  

http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres

.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I go for the cheapest possible, there is little or no difference that you can discern from driving at 60mph, I run at 5psi blow normal and get a nice soft ride, cornering feels the same as with any tyre I've ever used, I use black circle online and just get them fitted locally by one of their dealers, las lost cost me sub £400, why pay more unless it's a peeing contest, even then I'd win as I have money left to get a bigger willy
> 
> http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres
> 
> .


I'm with Kev on this. My last set of tyres had to be replaced because they were cracking but the tread was barely worn. Given that my van has done 30000 miles in nearly 8 years it's highly unlikely that I am compromising the safety of the van by buying budget tyres. I get them on t'internet and get my local back-street garage to fit them. He charges a fiver per tyre which seems reasonable.


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## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

It is worth looking at winter tyres. If your mileage is low then wear isn't really an issue and the winter treads are often better if the grass is a little wet.
At high speeds wnter tyres in the hot can be a concern but for a MH at 60-70MPH its just not an issue.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Had a look at that Black Circle link, their "Budget choice £54.23 c/w Michelin from £110, Fuel Efficiency rating E (not sure what that means) c/w Michelin C, in all other ratings they are identical......

BUT how big a load for a car would five such tyres be? Any idea? I am thinking about getting some before Christmas and bringing them out or conversely finding a way to get them shipped out here.....

Cost for Michelin Agilis here, if you buy two minimum 143€ each plus.......

Based on the low mileage we do (<3,000 miles /year at present) it seems silly to buy expensive ones that will degrade in the sun as that is one thing that we do have plenty of.....

Comments welcomed please....


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Wherever you buy from ask them to tell you the age that is stamped on each tyre before you buy.

The last pair I bought were only 2 months old and the seller had no issue in telling me the dates :smile2:...and given that they will probably be discarded before they run out of tread, it means I can get the full 5/6/7 years out of them (or whatever number of years I decide to keep them)

Graham:smile2:


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

My Conti wintercontact2s are now 6 years old with about 20,000 winter miles on them (inc 1 autumn trip to Portugal) and still have at least 4mm tread on the fronts.

I bought a pair of Goodyear Cargo Ultragrip 2 for the last 2 months ski trip. They are a bit noisier than the Vancos but have a bigger (softer?) tread and are studdable. I think they would be better than Vancos on wet grass but I don't know about the wear yet. I'm still using the more worn pair of Vancos for summer/autumn driving.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I am still running on my winter tyres (7 years old) As i dont fancy putting back the 9.5 year old summers


All tyres in good shape! Just getting twitchy about their age

i was looking at all seasons which are M+S tyres especially as most summer tyres dont have a chunky tread pattern and i do wonder if they would be useless on wet greasy grass


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Hankook Vanco M+S rated


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Thanks fdhadi for your suggestion of the hankooks

I will take a look on the web at them because of the M+S rating 

Though i must confess i have only ever bought European tyres in the past and have never considered Chinese or Korean manufacturers before


Aah looks like you meant to suggest Hankook Vantra RA18 tyres as the Vanco is the Conti tyre 


Looked at them on the hankook website and they are M+S rated yet to my eye the tread pattern is similar to many other summer tyres and certainly not a "chunky " tread pattern That i would have assumed would be needed to handle mud etc


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

tree

A number of vehicle manufacturers now fit Hankook tyres, Ford being one.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Now for some definitive advice from the legal department of a company that does NOT produce tyres suitable for motorhomes..... and is therefore less likely to be biased as regards their answer and advice.

I received a lengthy phone call today from a British Tyre specialist company that does NOT produce Motorhome tyres but is aware UK law and what the law requires throughout the EU EXCEPT for how it has been interpreted in the UK which is much more lenient than elsewhere......

In France (where I am based) the EU law on tyre safety and standards requires the tyres to be specific for the type of vehicle, i.e. Camping Car tyres (MH) MUST bear the CP logo and in France MUST be the same manufacturer and tyre specification on each side of the axle. 

That means that I cannot legally have van tyres fitted - the fitting centre should refuse, but if they don't and I am stopped the Gendarme can prosecute AND my insurance would be invalid (bit of a carrot there I think....)

This is based on the EU Law, which has been interpreted in different ways in different countries of which the UK is the most tolerant and will allow van tyres to be used by MH even though they are not designed to only be used a few times a year, often at full weight load and then for many miles before often being parked for some tme in the sun.

Apparently the walls of the tyres for CC/MH use differ from those for vans which are often in use for 6 or 7 days of the week and don't spend weeks sat still in the sun at maximum load/ Such behaviour changes the way the walls are distorted from MH use as is believed (explained above).

SO I am compelled to buy tryes suitable for MH use - and there are few of those on the market.....

UK interpretation MAY be acceptable for visiting MH unless things go pear shaped when the Gendarme may then stipulate that the tyres are dangerous in the way they are being used - note the word MAY, it partially depends on how the French plod think at the time and may depend on pre-or post lunch, how happy the plod is and even how much back chat he has been on the receiving end of....... which may be something users with van tyres may wish to bear in mind.

The advisor suggested staying with ones I know as otherwise if I have different maes front and rear I could be required to carry a spare for each as it would be illegal to run with e.g. Michelin on one side and Firestone on the other, even if boh are marked CP - the French Police interpret the law in a very strict manner, no mixed makes on one axle (there is an emergency clause but it is debatable if it might be applied).

So that's me sorted then........ expensive but the advice is clear - determine what the local situation requires and France is different to the UK even though all are within the EU - the UK is MUCH more tolerant than France......


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Crikey thats interesting reading

So i am stuffed as neither Michelin Agilis camper or Contintenatl Vanco camper tyres are made in the size i require for my sprinter motorhome (205/75R16)

I agree its good practice to have matching tyres on each axle but surprised to find its a EU legal requirement, 


Older Vehicles in the uk are likely to have 4 different tyres at each corner !


So if this is the case in France are they checked during the vehicles MOT equiv. test ?

My understanding is you cant mix types of tyres , eg winters and summers and also the the load and speed rating must apply 


My tyres are 108/110 8pr So would expect to be breaking the law by fitting tyres with a lower load rating But cant see why i would have to have a Camper specific tyre


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Penquin said:


> Now for some definitive advice from the legal department of a company that does NOT produce tyres suitable for motorhomes..... and is therefore less likely to be biased as regards their answer and advice.
> 
> I received a lengthy phone call today from a British Tyre specialist company that does NOT produce Motorhome tyres but is aware UK law and what the law requires throughout the EU EXCEPT for how it has been interpreted in the UK which is much more lenient than elsewhere......
> 
> ...


Surely not correct, what happens, as Trek has just said if camper tyres are not made for your van.

I just find it hard to believe, if they have the correct load/speed rating.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Found this definition on mytyres website https://www.mytyres.co.uk/tyre-glossary.html#15168

CP Tyres
CP tyres have been developed for camping vehicles such as mobile homes and are fitted with a reinforced sub structure. Equivalent to C tyres in terms of construction, CP tyres therefore have a high load bearing capacity. Due to considerably higher air pressure, CP tyres have higher load bearing capacity and at the same time, greater protection from mechanical damage. This reinforcement is done over several layers as in 205/55 R16 99 CP V tyres. This protects the tyres during a long stationary period on a base plate.
Caution: RF-/XL tyres and LT tyre are not C tyres, even if they resemble them with regard to size and load index. Therefore you should check the paperwork for your vehicle or ask the manufacturer which tyres you can use.
In contrast, the abbreviation "CP" stands for "Camping". This refers to C tyres which are optimised for the particular requirements of mobile homes, such as long standing times.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Another thought 

These "Camper" tyres are summer tyres so how does the French plod deal with French campers using winter tyres in the Alpes in the snow ?

( i know the michelins are M&S but that is still not a true winter tyre as its still a summer compound)

Just found there are also PIRELLI CHRONO-CAMPER but again not in my size


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Discussed some years ago on mhf
http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/201-wheels-tyres/70044-camper-tyres-does-have-cp-rated-c-ok.html

And another one

http://whichtyres.com/2012/05/do-i-need-camping-tyres-for-my-motorhome/

Comments are interesting on this link eg.:-

Jim Yates June 18, 2014 at 9:04 pm
I have just started investigating replacement tyres for my 3.5t, 5year old Boxer motorhome, my local tyre man has looked into the availability of camping tyres. He informed me he was being given advice that if the van would be visiting Europe it would need a higher spec tyre than for England? He is making further investigations with his suppliers


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

Interesting stuff, I am contemplating putting normal Michelin van tyres on next time, rather than the camper tyres. I use the MH every weekend at least doing 100+ miles each time and then in addition we'll do a couple of thousand miles per holiday away. Doing 6/7k miles each year means the tyres will never rot as they barely stop moving.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

From caravan club web site a magazine article on CP tyres (Camping Pneus)

My interpretation from reading this and other articles on the sunject is that CP tyres are designed to be overloaded beyond their displayed load rating

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/7780218/ccmaugayc.pdf

It says :-

"followed a study which demonstrated that overloading is generally the main cause of tyre failure, due to the fact that this type of vehicle often carries an excessive or badly distributed load which may be higher than that permitted by the Load Index (LI) of the tyre; usually on tyres fitted to the rear axle

And

many motor caravans are supplied as-new with C-type tyres, which are certainly not inappropriate (subject to being used within their load and speed ratings).


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## SteveRallye1 (Nov 29, 2016)

I put a set of budget winter tyres on from November to April (From Savoy tyres) and cannot sense any difference in driving at present and pay £50 to get them changed over each time. I left winter tyres on all the time on my old Rapido Aclass (Budget as well from Savoy) and they were noisy and we seemed to use more fuel but as they replaced the old cracked Michelins they did their job, but the ones I presently use just feel like normal tyres. The good thing is that it keeps both sets looking like new for longer. Savoy tend to use their best Budget range on their on Sprinters fulltime I was informed and get good milage.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

trek said:


> Jim Yates June 18, 2014 at 9:04 pm
> I have just started investigating replacement tyres for my 3.5t, 5year old Boxer motorhome, my local tyre man has looked into the availability of camping tyres. He informed me he was being given advice that if the van would be visiting Europe it would need a higher spec tyre than for England? He is making further investigations with his suppliers


That very much confirms what I have been told; MH MUST have CP rated tyres and for French use they MUST be the same on both sides of the same axle. i.e. Michelin CP on one side = Michelin CP on t'other side.

The requirement for CP rating may well reflect a higher stress tolerance.

BUT I was told this is a peculiarity of French regulations and their interpretation by _"Le Flic"_

I am going to have to stick to Michelin, expensive though they seem (143€ for each provided you buy 2), but the difference between that and a budget tyre (say 60€ per tyre) works out at about 83€ per wheel for the life of the tyre - nominally 5 years, so about 16€, or £14 per year - not a vast sum c/w the operating costs of the MH, just over £1 per week.........


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I have only found three tyre manufacturers so far that make a CP rated tyre 

Michelin, Continental & Pirelli


Bit of a cartel ?

I am sure it would be against EU rules , aah but this is Fance so it doesnt count


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

The standard CP tyres fitted to our MH were rated 112. The new Hankook tyres I had fitted are 116 so surely that's got to be an upgrade / higher spec.


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