# Elderly relative - your ideas please



## GMJ

My father in law is 83 and lives by himself in a semi. His bedroom and only bathroom/toilet are upstairs. He is the nicest bloke you could meet and has a great sense of humour. He is also the most stubborn bloke you could meet and his default answer to any question/suggestion is "no no no no..." He will not accept help from anyone for anything as he values his independence.

He has really dodgy knees which means his mobility is severely impeded. He has started to use a stick when walking but that's it. He only goes food shopping every 2 weeks now as its too much effort to go every week.

In the early hours of yesterday morning he awoke in his armchair (having fallen asleep) at 4.30 in the morning. Upon getting up to go to bed he fell and was not discovered by concerned neighbours until 10.00am having spent the 5.5 hours on the floor as he couldn't get up. Fortunately he hasn't physically hurt himself. it transpires that this isn't the first time he has fallen.

Now, as a result of this we have to get him to make changes in his life whether he likes it or not. He is going to hate this but strong conversations have to be had. We cannot pop down every 2 mins as he lives 150 miles from us. Our son pops in regularly as he only lives 15 miles or so away. He does have good neighbours but he needs to help himself as well.

As a result of the above so far we have decided upon the following...

- I have ordered an alarm call/fall monitoring system which I shall take with me next Saturday when I visit him. It's like a wristwatch but if he falls his house will be called by the monitors. If he does not reassure them they will ring his list of contacts who will come round to check on him

- I contacted Social services but they can do nothing unless he agrees.

- My son is picking up a couple of walking frames tomorrow or him: one for the downstairs next to where he sits and one for his bedroom. These are just so he has something to lean on when he gets up out of his chair or bed.

- A neighbour is installing an external key safe so they can get access if needed.

- I will install a grab rail next to his chair as an extra to the walking frame.

- My wife will be contacting his Dr tomorrow to arrange a home visit.

- When I visit him I'll be having several chats concerning a stair lift; social services; Power of Attorney etc etc

So the question is...can you think of anything else we can do/try?

Any sensible suggestions welcome.

ta


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## Pudsey_Bear

Sounds pretty comprehensive Graham, and I'm sure you will also come up with other ideas, one I would suggest is online shopping if he has the capacity for that or maybe a close neighbour could go around with a laptop and do it with/for him.


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## GMJ

Thanks Kev

I'll discuss that next Saturday. He doesn't have t'internet despite being with BT since they were the GPO! I have tried over the years to sort out his bills for the phone, gas and electric as he stayed with the "gas board" and the "electricity board" since they were privatised...as well as BT. He is the classic person who is on their worst rates as we know they don't reward loyalty.

My son can easily do that with him.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I was going to suggest that or even you could do it too you don't need to be there, just set up an account and have a chat once a week about what he wants, of course then we get on to how much longer he can cook for himself and get in and out of the bath/shower, it comes to us all myself included.


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## erneboy

That's difficult fo you Graham, but you seem to have most things covered as best you can. Good luck with it. At least he isn't driving, stopping that and telling them they will have to have full time care are the hardest things I think.


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## 242633

'Sell' the extra support to Dad, not as an admission that he has 'failed' [wounded pride is a strange thing!], but more of a way of keeping his independence, for the donkey's years he is going to be around, independent with necessary support, rather than having to consider going into residential care. A proud man, in possession of his full faculties, will have been frightened by the prolonged time before he was discovered, so the reassurance that this will not repeated, but that his independence will not be threatened will maintain his dignity and pride.

I had conversations with my parents, 'It's not for you, because I know you stubborn old buggers are old enough, daft enough and ugly enough to look after yourselves' It's to save me from worrying and having to drive 300 miles each way if there is a problem ... So there. Let me do something to help you, for once. You stubborn old sod' etc etc

Steve


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## raynipper

While walking frames give greater stability my mother ended up relying on hers just that little too much and toppled over with it and broke many bones. That was virtually the end.

Ray.


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## Glandwr

The alarm you mention Graham, Is it just monitoring him or can he initiate to call for help like a pager if he is incapacitated? If not maybe a pager on an inconspicuous lanyard might be reassuring,


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## GMJ

No problem with that Ray - we'll be lucky if he uses it just for support to get up out of the chair. The young 'un is taking them to him tomorrow hopefully and he (the young 'un) is a cheeky blighter so may well get away with it. I've told him to put one in his granddads bedroom to make sure its up there.

I also told him to get the money for them as if FiL knows he's paid for it, then he'll maybe use it as he does not like waste.

What is massively frustrating is that we had a stair lift in our last house for Mrs GMJ. When we had it put in my FiL offered to pay for it (I told you he was a nice bloke) but we refused, not wanting to take money off a pensioner etc etc. When we had it taken out 5 years later as we were moving house we offered it to him and he refused. Had he paid for it originally we think he would have had it re-installed in his house as he hates waste and would have originally paid for it!

Thanks for the other words/support/suggestions folks


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## 747

If his mobility is not so good, why not try him on CBD oil. It really works.



Vitality CBD products are now stocked by Asda and Tesco. Some are also stocked by Lloyds pharmacy (with a huge mark up). Try the 2400 strength which costs £30 at Supermarkets. You could also order them online if you want.


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## H1-GBV

Mum died 25y ago. Dad was 70 and reasonably fit & healthy. They'd moved from a semi to a bungalow so stairs weren't a problem.

Gradually he deteriorated: his beautiful flower garden out the front turned into lawn and then we replaced it with stones and a flagstone circle, with plants in pots.
His memory started to go (not seriously) and he developed shakes: he became less capable but refused to accept it, despite all of the evidence.
He went out to the pub and shopping less often but when we introduced him to befriending services and day centres he insisted that he would only mix with his own friends: he quickly became lonely and more needy of our attention but refused to accept the evidence.
His driving got more dangerous and we took away his car: after cursing us he settled down to taking advantage of his bus pass but his limiting mobility meant that those journeys decreased: he had plenty of money for taxis but refused to use them, so he became a prisoner in his own home.
If I was here to answer the phone he rang 10 times per day, to tell me that no-one ever spoke to him. If I was away on holiday he rang 20-30 times, complaining that I was ignoring him. My kids often found our recorder system totally full so they had to listen to his rantings, which was quite upsetting. When he ended up in a carehome we refused to let him have a telephone, even though most other residents had one.

Although he had originally cooked for himself, he became less interested and would prefer a box of Mr Kipling's cakes to a decent meal (despite being diabetic). His fridge/freezer we filled with ready meals but he "hated" every one of them. We got a local cafe to bring him lunch but he complained irrespective of what was delivered.

Eventually we got carers in 3 times a day to feed him and see to his personal hygiene. He refused to let them in and we had to ring him up and persuade him to open the door.
We fitted a safekey box but he blocked the keyhole with blutack or matchsticks. He placed signs in the window saying "do not disturb".
He used a walking stick, then a frame and occasionally a mobility scooter: going anywhere became a chore.
He had an emergency fob but frequently left it on his bedside cabinet.

He had tiled the bathroom to suit Mum and refused to change things: I took him away for a week's holiday and he returned to discover a superb wetroom with shower, which he really liked (phew!).

One day he was found in a pool of blood beside the bed and within a week we had him in a carehome, which my brother and I had checked out in advance (brother thought that all homes were the "same" and that all charged the same fees: if you may go down this route start looking now and get all interested parties on-board!).
Dad wasn't happy in the home, where he lived for almost 3y. Fortunately my last two visits (on the way to and from a holiday in Scotland) were positive and he didn't get Covid, although he couldn't understand all of the restrictions.

I have a lot of sympathy for your situation and can only suggest that things may be harder than you anticipate. Please try really hard to discuss options with everyone who may be involved: you may have to insist on some difficult decisions but getting everyone to agree may lead to fewer problems later.

Gordon

OTOH MiL is 93 and manages to be independent in most ways.


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## GMJ

Glandwr said:


> The alarm you mention Graham, Is it just monitoring him or can he initiate to call for help like a pager if he is incapacitated? If not maybe a pager on an inconspicuous lanyard might be reassuring,


I's a fall detector plus he can initiate I believe. I'll know more when it arrives tomorrow. It comes with a lanyard or wristwatch-type arrangement. We think he'll go for the wristwatch thing as its less obtrusive.

I think the concept is that the base unit has a loudspeaker so if anything appears untoward with him, then the monitor team call him to check. If no answer or a problem they then call his main contact (which I will supply). If they are unavailable it works through the list of 5 contacts. If no one answers they then ring paramedics.

He has 2 neighbours who hopefully will agree to be on the list plus my son lives 15 miles away; his son lives 25 miles away; and another grandson 43 miles away. If all goes to plan they will make up the contact list.


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## patp

I read an article in Readers Digest years ago which told us to - make life changes in our fifties because in our sixties they become difficult, in our seventies very difficult and by our eighties we can forget it. 

I found this with my mother who was the opposite of your FIL in that she faked ailments to get more help. Of course we could rarely prove she was faking. Nothing we suggested was ever acceptable. If it came from her it was fine. We learned to work conversations so that she thought she was the instigator of a change. We lied sometimes. I would say that I had ordered a service or an aid because she had either asked me to or had expressed a, now forgotten, wish to have the help it provided. She listened more, I found, to outside people. She was registered blind with macular degeneration so had visits from OT's. She would listen and enact their changes but not ours.
I noticed that she was very suspicious of family help as though we were all trying to fleece her. It is how old people get scammed they trust outsiders more than their family. You might find that a social worker will be listened to more than family.

I do believe that some elderly people want to self destruct. My mother in law was diabetic with a heart condition. When we visited her there would be a pile of chocolate bars beside her chair. We could not persuade her to cut down on things she wanted and I do believe that she was choosing to self destruct while she had capacity. Her sister had gone on hunger strike when admitted to hospital and died there. Sometimes we just cannot help people if they do not want help.

One thing that worked with my mother was buying her a taxi service for a Birthday gift. I told her that we had paid the taxi firm to come and get her whenever she called and that she must use the service or we would lose our money. It worked a treat and was a great hit with her because it got her out of the house (she had peripheral vision) to go to appointments and to get her shopping.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Old people eh, funny buggers, not me of course, I'm not old.

Cue G saying I'm not funny either > >


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## GMJ

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Old people eh, funny buggers, not me of course, I'm not old.
> 
> Cue G saying I'm not funny either > >


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## jiwawa

When I read "As a result of the above so far we have decided upon the following...."I thought 'I hope that includes FIL'

I think Steve's post at #6 is probably the way to go. As others have mentioned, involving the person in the decisions (and even manipulating them as Patp suggests) means they have a vested interest and are far more likely to go along with them.


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## GMJ

At the moment the FiL has not been privy to any conversations as I explained, his default is always "no".

It sounds great to get him involved in the conversations but it wouldn't work. We know this through many years of experience. A combination of 'planting the seed' in his mind plus some fait accompli will work best. I had a good chat with him on Saturday pointing out that this wasn't normal (the falling over) and that he should come up with some ideas before the family all closed ranks on him. He tends to listen to me more than his son or daughter.

As Pat said earlier, if he had made changes in his 50s/60s/70s then we wouldn't be where we are now.

None of us are looking forward to the next week or two because he will not be happy but nicely ganging up on him tends to work. For example he was adamant he wasn't going to have the covid booster jab but after all of us nagging him, he is now thinking about it.


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## raynipper

My sis in law has been nagging at every opportunity the last ten years for us to "Not leave it too late" to downsize, clear the junk and come back to yer roots. Meaning round the corner to her. She was widowed about 5 years ago got rid of everything so her kids would be able to empty the house in 20 mins when she 'goes'. She has been sitting there waiting to go join 'him' for 5 years now while we have still been enjoying a busy and social life in France.

Now at 80 I do agree it's somewhat more obvious we will have to downsize. But we can't agree on the next location. So we put it off again.

Ray.


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## patp

We found my mum the perfect place to relocate to Ray. She lived in a three bedroom house with a large garden that worried her to death. The new place was a flat (she would not live in a bungalow in case the bogey man came through her bedroom window!) and it was very conveniently located for shops doctors etc which was her main wish. She viewed it but turned it down due to it having no washing machine because there was a communal laundry! Chris even offered to install her very own washing machine but she would not budge. Nothing to do with the right place and all to do with leaving it too late.


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## GMJ

My FiL will never move. I have to make him understand that if his knees/mobility gets worse he wont be able to live there unless he makes a bedroom downstairs and uses a commode!


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## patp

I have heard of a tactic, used by health professionals, of persuading the elderly person to go and stay somewhere for a short break and then tell them that going back to their previous situation is a non starter. They just wait for them to "come round" to a sensible solution.


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## GMJ

He won't fall for that I'm afraid. We can't get him to even stay the night with us in a bungalow (with a bedroom next to the bathroom and a walk in shower cubicle).


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## raynipper

I'm now worried i'm going to get like that G.

Ray.


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## GMJ

Having seen him over many years, I am determined not to be like that!

I can be stubborn but I do react well to common sense.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I'll let that go considering the topic > >


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## GMJ

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I'll let that go considering the topic > >


They part of that was "common sense" Kev :smile2:


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## patp

As it is so common among the elderly I wonder what is the cause of it. Could it be that when we were all cavemen/women the young people used to push the elderly out into the snow? Only the really stubborn old wasanames that refused to budge survived?


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## H1-GBV

The Eskimos (Inuit?) pushed their elderly relatives out onto the snow, I believe.

Cavemen initially lived in central Africa: not a lot of snow around there!

Gordon

(It seems a good idea to me: perhaps I'd go quietly.)


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## GMJ

Back on the OP: I have it in mind to see if I can get a small travel alarm clock for the FiL when we are out today. He can have it next to him in the evenings and set it to his normal bedtime time. That way if he does fall asleep in his armchair he can wake up and then go to bed. It sounds counter intuitive I know - waking up so you can go to bed - but that way he will be safer rather than waking up disorientated at 4.30 in the morning still in his armchair.


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## patp

Good idea Graham. An elderly uncle of mine set fire to his flat by falling asleep by the fire at night.


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## Lariliss

You yourself and relatives and neighbours are already doing all correct to start.
Later you will find amendments to do, not everything will go smoothly.

I had similar situation with bright and stubborn granny.
You must find a way of dialogue in any case otherwise it will make unhappy everyone. Be polite and joking and listening in response.
Our friend nurse could do better than family sometimes.


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## GMJ




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## GMJ

Update

The next door neighbour has fitted a key safe to the outside of the fiL's house plus a CO alarm as well.

Our son took around 2 x Zimmer Frames yesterday for the FiL to use a support when getting out of his chair (and one for the bedroom for getting out of bed). FiL embraced them wholeheartedly and even used one to walk around with (according to my son it was the fastest he'd seen him walk for over 15 years!!).

So far so good. Fingers crossed for me for Saturday...


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## jiwawa

Wow, that IS good news Graham! I hope you catch him in the same mindframe.


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## GMJ

Just an update on 'Operation Ken' as we are calling it...

- Alarm call system has arrived and I have programmed it with 6 different people's contact details.

- Just came off he telephone to FiL Dr who is going to visit him next Weds. 

- I am driving up to Cheltenham to see the FiL tomorrow and will install the Personal Alarm Call System in his house. Plus I hope to put up a handrail for him. I will also talk to him about social services/stair lifts/on line shopping etc etc I'll tell him about the Dr's visit too but I'll say it was a condition of the Alarm call people or some such, as he will be very d=resistant to the visit.

Onwards and upwards....


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## patp

Good luck Graham. Rocky road ahead I suspect. I still have bad memories of trying to manage my mum but always countered it, at the time, with thoughts of how much worse it would have been if my dad had out lived her!


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## GMJ

So mixed results on yesterday's visit...

- Fil didn't want a handle putting up on the wall to help him get out of his chair. Nor a handle near his gas fire for when he has to bend down to switch it on/off. He says the Zimmer frame works a treat for him so that's fine.

- I installed the Alarm call system and he was mildly impressed. He didn't want to wear the wristwatch type thing so had it sat on the settee next to him! We emphasised how important it was that he at least kept it in his pocket so it was no use if he couldn't reach it if he fell! I suspect we'll have to work on that with him. He said he'll keep the system for a year but then ditch it! Again, we have a year to work on that with him.

- An emphatic NO to social Services visiting.

- An emphatic NO to getting a cleaner in.

- An emphatic NO to having a stair lift put in.

- I left the discussion of Power of Attorney with him after pointing out the benefits of it and that I had taken them out for myself and Mrs GMJ. We'll have to revisit that one.

- He was distinctly unimpressed that we had made an appointment for the Dr to visit him next week. he did put it in his diary though tbf so hopefully he won't ring up and cancel it.

One positive that came out of it: he has seen these walkers that have wheels and a seat built into them and he wants one so he can use it in the garden, so I'll organise that for him.



Small progress but we'll keep on keeping on!


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## patp

Well, I would call that a result Graham. 

My mum wanted the alarm and had the one that hangs around the neck. In spite of wanting one, and driving the carers nuts by testing it on a regular basis, it lived on her bedside table 

She used her stair lift to send her bedtime drink up the stairs while she followed on foot. It was a real pain, when she had her final collapse, because no one knew how to work the damn thing and the poor paramedics had to lift her at head height to navigate the stretcher down stair 

The cleaner, however, was a huge hit. It took a while for her to come round to it but when I pointed out black mould in her fridge I won the day! In the middle of our, almost daily, telephone calls she would suddenly cut off from her complaining and announce that she "must go because the cleaner will be here soon". I knew my place in the order of things


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## GMJ

Thanks Pat

Small progress but some.

He really could do with a cleaner as the place is grubby but he values his privacy and wouldn't want anyone poking around. I am no so worried about that tbh as its his mess and whilst its dusty etc, its liveable.

We dropped the ball on the stair lift. When we had one installed in our house in Cirencester he offered to pay for it. Of course we said no but had we accepted, when we had it taken out I reckon he would have had it then as he hates waste. 

I emphasised time and again that we are trying to do/suggest stuff so that he can retain his independence. I asked him what his worst nightmare would be, knowing the answer. He replied that going into a care home would be it. So I told him to keep thinking about the stair lift but not to let us know when it was too late as it would take a couple of weeks to organise. I can see what will happen though: he'll leave it too late and as his bed and toilet/shower are upstairs, he will be unable to use them.

I am so pleased that we future proofed and moved into a bungalow last year as Mrs GMJ struggles with stairs now at 57!


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## jiwawa

GMJ said:


> So mixed results on yesterday's visit...
> 
> - Fil didn't want a handle putting up on the wall to help him get out of his chair. Nor a handle near his gas fire for when he has to bend down to switch it on/off. He says the Zimmer frame works a treat for him so that's fine.
> 
> - I installed the Alarm call system and he was mildly impressed. He didn't want to wear the wristwatch type thing so had it sat on the settee next to him! We emphasised how important it was that he at least kept it in his pocket so it was no use if he couldn't reach it if he fell! I suspect we'll have to work on that with him. He said he'll keep the system for a year but then ditch it! Again, we have a year to work on that with him.
> 
> - An emphatic NO to social Services visiting.
> 
> - An emphatic NO to getting a cleaner in.
> 
> - An emphatic NO to having a stair lift put in.
> 
> - I left the discussion of Power of Attorney with him after pointing out the benefits of it and that I had taken them out for myself and Mrs GMJ. We'll have to revisit that one.
> 
> - He was distinctly unimpressed that we had made an appointment for the Dr to visit him next week. he did put it in his diary though tbf so hopefully he won't ring up and cancel it.
> 
> One positive that came out of it: he has seen these walkers that have wheels and a seat built into them and he wants one so he can use it in the garden, so I'll organise that for him.
> 
> Small progress but we'll keep on keeping on!


I reckon that's pretty good going for a man who's traditionally extremely independent and negative about help.

You may have mentioned elsewhere but is there any possibility of installing a downstairs toilet and moving the bed downstairs?

I think he will start to balance his need for independence with the possibility of moving into care - and if a bit of compromise on the first might avoid the second, he might just come round to it - in his own time.


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## GMJ

Thanks Jean

No to the downstairs toilet idea I'm afraid. the house doesn't really lend itself to it without an extension being built...plus he wouldn't agree to it either. It's a shame as numerous people on his street have done just that and had extensions put on their houses but his is exactly the same as when it was built in the 50's.

I did emphasise to him that it was all about helping him to keep his independence. I also asked him what he would do if he couldn't get up/down the stirs anymore: "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" was his response. Fair enough I said but please let us know 2 weeks before you get to the bridge as we'll need to organise it!!

I organised a garden walker thingy with brakes and seat. His 2 grandsons can club together and pay for that as an Xmas present for him I think. I got it sent to my lad's work address so when it arrives Tuesday he can op it in to the FiL.


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## patp

Your comment about FIL hating waste brought up a memory of my parents. My dad would never agree to anything new being bought for the house unless an item was beyond repair. We managed, on several occasions, to get my poor mum something new by telling dad that we had found it second hand/dumped/in a car boot sale somewhere. You said about your stairlift, which might have been acceptable to him, so could you, after a decent interval, "find" one that is being "given away".

Try not to worry too much about the future because if he suddenly cannot manage then he could, possibly, go into respite while the appropriate adaptions are made to the house? My daughter bought a house with a toilet (no hand basin until Chris fitted a neat toilet/hand basin combo) in her under stairs cupboard. Before Chris did the new fitting they used to wash their hands at the kitchen sink. Showering is another problem but I expect there are many people who manage with a bowl and a flannel


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## Pudsey_Bear

Might be worth showing these to him on your phone G

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...0680.m570.l1311&_nkw=used+stairlifts&_sacat=0


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## GMJ

I'll let the last crop of changes/ideas settle for a while now. We are up seeing him again in a few weeks for an Xmas meal, so we'll see what's what then. Sometimes planting the seed and giving him something to think about, works. I suspect it'll be a much longer game with the stairlift though. I think he thinks that getting one will be the last step for him.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I see what you did there, almost funny, almost.


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## GMJ

Twas accidental...but I'll take the plaudits!


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## Pudsey_Bear

I like mine with chips and curry sauce


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## patp

I think you are right Graham. If the idea comes from them is the best way to get things done.


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## dghr272

After my stroke brought on major arthritis flare ups getting out of a chair was really difficult. The Stroke Association suggested and supplied a large firm sponge cushion that fitted under the existing couch cushion it worked a treat as the extra height eased the pressure on the joints when getting out of a chair.

You’re doing really well in a very difficult area of care, he’s lucky to have so much help and concern focused on him, although that unfortunately never sits well with independent minded folk.

Terry


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## GMJ

The Dr was supposed to visit the FiL today but rang us to tell us that his daughter had Covid so it was probably not a wise idea to visit an 83yo! 

We re-appointed to the same time next week.

FiL was happy as it meant he could have his lunchtime can of John Smiths!


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## patp

These outside agencies are a godsend sometimes. My mother listened to a volunteer from the Norfolk and Norwich Society for the Blind much more than she would listen to me. They are trained in how to frame their questions and get the curmudgeonly old so and so's to accept some help.


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## GMJ

We are hoping that he will respond better to an authority figure. The Dr is going to suggest that Occupational Therapy visit to do a house assessment. I also suggested that he take a cheeky flu jab with him and see if he can persuade the FiL to have it...it'd be a first if he could!

In other news as he refused to wear the wristwatch type thing for his call system, I have now ordered a pendant for him. I expect he'll have a reason/excuse for not wearing that too...


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## GMJ

Latest update

Our son took the pendant around the the FiL yesterday for the Alarm call System he has. True to form he didn't have the wristwatch call thing on him or near him: not much use if he fell!!! Anyway as the pendant call button is smaller my son made the point that he should wear it or at least keep it in his pocket. He seemed to respond positively to that suggestion as my son pointed out he'd get nagged less!

FiL told another grandchild that his legs were hurting when he showered. This got fed back to us so it is apparent that he needs a shower seat. The Dr is visiting him on Weds with an objective to get him to agree to Occupational Health visiting and doing an assessment for exactly these kind of things. We suspect that the FiL wouldn't mention this pain nor his carpel tunnel syndrome he says he has, so my son will be there tomorrow when the Dr calls...just to make sure that everything is mentioned.


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## patp

Tiny steps 

I remember a work colleague telling me about his father who died of hypothermia with a bunker full of coal going unused. My own father had a Rayburn coal burner in the lounge. He would sit as close as was possible to it while feeding it with the odd lump of fuel. My mother was on the sofa wrapped in blankets  Chris installed central heating but he went round turning all the radiators off because they were "not needed".


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## GMJ

Similar here: Fil has central heating but only has it on when he goes to bed and gets up in the morning. He has a gas fire on in one room during the day. The rest of the house is nobbling. This is part of our worry as if he fell outside of his warm rom, he'd be in bigger trouble.

Oh btw the gas fire has never been serviced.

Me: "When did you last have that serviced Ken?"

Fil: "I do it myself"

Me:


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## Pudsey_Bear

With sharply increasing fuel prices this winter may see off more than usual, we're ok until February, but then we'll get steep rises too.


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## GMJ

Update

The Dr visited yesterday. My son took a few hours off work and turned up as well as we feared that FiL would just blag his way through it otherwise.

According to my son the Dr took no prisoners. He informed my FiL that having Occupational Health visit was not an option...it was happening! The Dr will organise the visit and they will assess the FiL's house with a view to installing some bars and hopefully a shower seat. My son will also attend again provided the FiL tells us when they are coming.

The Dr went further and has got the fiL to agree to having a physiotherapist visit him at home, which again the Dr will organise.

Lastly he also got him to agree to having his knees X Rayed with a view to having injections to ease the pain...which again, FiL agreed to!

One of the grandchildren will attend all of these things and also take him to have the X-rays. Good of them as they work full time. When Mrs GMJ contacted her brother and suggested that he may have to accompany if the others were tied up in work he tried pointing out that he worked full time! Tes mate...so do the grandchildren but they are pulling their weight on this whilst you have done nowt! Also his wife is a retired teacher and does nothing all day so she could do it too!).

Anyway we knew he would respond well to a figure in authority but are over the moon with these outcomes.

My wife and I have decided now that we will put all our efforts into persuading him to wear/carry the alarm call fob plus also persuading him to get a stair lift installed. Then we promise will be to leave him alone then if he does that


----------



## patp

Great news Graham! I bet you feel lighter? I would leave the pendant and stair lift to see if the OT will persuade him first. Physio will probably go through some fall prevention exercises. Not sure how he can be persuaded to do them. Might be down to the charm of the physio?


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## GMJ

Yes Pat thanks

We'll give him a few days off and then start nagging again









We are seeing him again in a couple of weeks time so he should be nicely primed by then. I'm not sure how long it will take to get all these referrals done and completed with actual visits.


----------



## jiwawa

That's fantastic news Graham! Great that the Dr had just the right attitude for your FIL to accept his recommendations. Long may the progress continue!


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## jiwawa

That's fantastic news Graham! Great that the Dr had just the right attitude for your FIL to accept his recommendations. Long may the progress continue!


----------



## GMJ

Thanks Jean

We'll leave him be for a day or two and then starting working him over re stair lift.









Our only concern now is that he made noises on the phone to Mrs GMJ yesterday that he was thinking of installing a seat in the shower himself so that he could avoid OH visiting!

Really, you couldn't make it up...


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

TBH I could do with a seat in our shower, but have you seen the price of them.


----------



## H1-GBV

I'm glad that things have gone so well for you but "doing it myself" was also Dad's stock answer. One day, aged 85, he was up on top of the garage roof poking at things with his walking stick. Sadly he suffered badly with tremors but he still insisted on trying to do plumbing and electrical work, even when one of us were there and could do it in a quarter of the time.

However, a word of warning about PoA. We persuaded Dad that it would be a good idea to sign one and also to alter his will because he wanted to leave £25k to a friend with the remainder to be split between his sons. No way could he accept that there might not be £25k left from his £170k savings and the sale of his house: "the Government will pay for all my care and you'll be getting richer and richer". We talked to him over and over again, explaining how the system is different now to when he last dealt with it and eventually he agreed to it. Then he changed his mind and we had to start again, repeating this several times per week. On the day before the meeting with the solicitor we went over the details again and he agreed that it was for the best. On the day of the meeting he was against it again. I talked him round, got him through the door of the solicitor and things were going reasonably well until it came time to sign, when Dad objected once more. Fortunately the solicitor has done work for everyone in the family and decided to walk out so that we could "discuss" the situation. He then accepted that Dad had was of sound mind and had made these decisions freely. If we had left the timing another month or so, it might have proved more difficult.

As you can appreciate, one of Dad's problems was dementia, but "awkward soditis" isn't something that improves with age. Just to make matters worse, Dad got a copy of his new will and phoned up the solicitor to get the present to his friend re-instated. "Fortunately", when he died his total assets still came to over £150k but Mum would have been very upset to see so much money going to someone outside the family.

Good luck with all your efforts - Gordon


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## patp

We organised my mum's PoA. You can download it all from the Gov.uk website. She died suddenly before needing it but had done her will herself too. All perfectly legal and served to sort out her simple affairs.

Chris and I have done both financial and health PoA's. Again we downloaded them and, with a couple of hiccoughs, managed to register them with the appropriate department.

My dad signed a blank will form! When he died my mum just wrote "I leave all my worldly goods to my wife Lilian" in the space above    He always said he would leave us nothing but debts and he very nearly succeeded. He had no funeral plan and no money. He died of a stroke just before a visit to the local tip. On her way home from the hospital my mum told my brother to bundle up dad's old clothes and throw them away when he got home. "I will just check his pockets first" said my brother. Rolled up really tightly in his trouser pocket was a couple of hundred pounds! He must have had a win on the gee gees! Together with his Penny Insurance, that his mother had started for him, it just paid for his funeral  Who says there isn't a God?


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## GMJ

My wife and I both have PoA's in place with my son as the named attorney. I set them up myself after my wife had her first breakdown a couple of years ago. This was because her eldest son was useless at providing any kind of help or care when she was ill as he is too lazy and self centred to worry about anyone else and we didn't want him making any decisions about either of us if the worst happened. Her youngest (my son) is the opposite and we trust him implicitly.

I set up both the health and the finance ones for us. Around 80 quid each I think.

We are less concerned aboot a PoA for Mrs GMJ's dad at the mo as we have the stair lift battle to fight next. Her dad is great; he doesn't spend money as he wants to leave as much as he can to his kinds. We have told him time and time again to spend some on the house and to ease his life somewhat but he wont.


----------



## GMJ

Update on Operation Ken.

The FiL now has his date and time for his knee X-rays. it's in 2 weeks time. Our son is going to give him a lift and accompany him. Luckily its at the local hospital in Cheltenham.


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## jiwawa

What fantastic progress in a relatively short time Graham!


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## GMJ

Thanks Jean

We are there taking him out for Xmas lunch on the 15th, so we'll get to 'work him over' regarding the stair lift then.


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## GMJ

Update

We had our Xmas meal out last week which went well. The FiL's younger brother (81) came with us and what a contrast with the FiL it was. The younger brother still cycles and walks everywhere with no knee issues at all.

When we got back in to the FiL house after the meal (he was driven back by our son in his car) he was sat there with his Emergency pendant around his neck. Hopefully that is the norm now and not just put on for our benefit.

On Friday last week he went to the hospital for his knee X-rays. Again, our son took him. As he has aversion with anything medical, my son got there early and it all went like a dream. They managed to park easily and close to the Dept; the fiL used his new wheeled stroller; they got the X-rays done early; plus he didn't need to change into a gown, he could just roll his trousers up for the X-rays. It was important that it went smoothly in case of further hospital visits: a bad experience would mean that he wouldn't go again.

We spoke to his Dr and he said when he gets the results, he will go to his house and administer any injections needed to the knees. 

No news about the Physio or Occ Health visits yet.

Still adamant he doesn't want a stair lift.


----------



## 242633

GMJ said:


> Thanks Jean
> 
> We'll leave him be for a day or two and then starting working him over re stair lift.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our only concern now is that he made noises on the phone to Mrs GMJ yesterday that he was thinking of installing a seat in the shower himself so that he could avoid OH visiting!
> 
> Really, you couldn't make it up...


Graham,

Lloyds Pharmacy sell a 'Shower Stool' that has adjustable legs, and a 'hoop' support at each side for lowering and getting oneself up again. I bought one when I had my 2nd hip replacement in 2016, and it was really useful. IIRC, it cost about £40, ordered online and collected from the local Lloyds Pharmacy branch. The stool has been gathering dust ever since the hip became strong enough to support me and bend, flext etc ...

Steve


----------



## patp

My dad would have been just the same Graham. In fact he would have relinquished showering and done a strip down wash rather than spend a penny on anything other than a bet on the 2.30. We thanked our lucky stars he went before my mum.


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## GMJ

FiL had another fall yesterday. He was out distributing presents to friends and family and his knees gave way as he was trying to get into his car whilst balancing his walking stick and a gift he had received. Fortunately no harm done and his ex brother in law (an infirm bloke in his late 70's!) was on hand to help him up...which would have been worth seeing!

More grist to the mill though for when we next mention the option of a stair lift.


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## patp

Sorry to hear this Graham. Sometimes it is better if they end up in hospital so that they can be told they cannot go home until xyz are put in place. Not wishing it on you at this time of year though!


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## jiwawa

That's a bit worrying Graham. I expect it will have dented his confidence so he may well be open to accepting more in the way of help.

Just as well someone was there to help.


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## GMJ

Yes Jean - that's what we are hoping but I suspect it'll take a bit more than that.

The force is strong with this one!!


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## GMJ

Bit of an update...

The FiL went to see an ex neighbour before Xmas who he has kept in touch with. Her husband died a good few years ago now and she offered the FiL his old mobility scooter...which the FiL has agreed to! I haven't seen it but apparently it is very light, so much so that his friend can fold it up and put it in the car and she is a tiny, little lady.

I'm not sure how good the batteries will be after a number of years of non use but hopefully we can sort that. It'll be a great help if he is prepared to use that.

Also, we are going up to see him next week and he has agreed to let me drive him to the barbers to get a haircut! He is well overdue (think William Hartnell in Dr Who!) but for him to agree to this is good news. he has 'fessed up that he would find it hard to park and walk from his car to the barbers hence accepting some help.

He also asked me for help today as he had posted his cheque for his gas bill to British Gas early in December and they had obviously not received it so sent him a terse letter threatening to charge him interest on the overdue!!. I know it would be a standard letter but it's still worrying to him. It's annoying as he has only ever been with BG since they were "The Board", so I'd hate to think how much he has been charged over the years as he has never switched and ever challenged a price they charged! It's good for him to ask for some help though.

So onwards and upwards....


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

GMJ said:


> He also asked me for help today as he had posted his cheque for his gas bill to British Gas early in December and they had obviously not received it so sent him a terse letter threatening to charge him interest on the overdue!!. I know it would be a standard letter but it's still worrying to him. It's annoying as he has only ever been with BG since they were "The Board", so I'd hate to think how much he has been charged over the years as he has never switched and ever challenged a price they charged! It's good for him to ask for some help though.
> 
> So onwards and upwards....


That reminded me of an episode of series 2 of afterlife I watched the other day, this man was being interviewed as he had been posting all his mail into a red dog crap box for ages, including cheques for gas etc.


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## GMJ

Oh dear


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## patp

Good news indeed Graham. Perhaps the things he has accepted have convinced him on what he is missing out on. I know that it is common practice among health professionals to plant a seed and let it germinate.


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## GMJ

Fingers crossed Pat. We still haven't won on the big battle of the stairlift but we'll keep on keeping on...


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## GMJ

FiL is getting his cortisone injections in his knees today following the X-rays which identified arthritis. We haven't mentioned how painful it could be but he will be getting a local anaesthetic though.

Fingers crossed it'll give him some respite.


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## patp

That sounds good, Graham. Not sure it will help in the battle of the stair lift though  I must remind Chris to ask about injections. Last time he left it far too late and ended up with a double knee replacement. He is most reluctant to go and start the process again. The old metal knees are knackered now too. I think the new incarnation are better. Not sure if the injections would work on him though?


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## GMJ

The FiL is eligible for replacements and the Dr will talk to him about that today. The answer will be no though and tbh there's probably a few years waiting list now as well.

All we can hope is that the injections work and we will keep talking to him about the stair lift.

The old curmudgeon isn't wearing his pendant for his fall alarm system either as he knew someone who kept setting theirs off as she kept bumping it! He'll use any excuse not do do something. We swapped the watch for the pendant as he wouldn't wear that either.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I sort of admire the old bugger, not sure I'd be any different.


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## GMJ

He'll be in trouble when he cant get up the stairs though as he has no downstairs toilet etc.

All we are trying to do is keep him independent but he is not helping himself.

It is also making Mrs GMJ worry and given her mental problems this is not fair.


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## patp

Yes, the effect on family members is very underestimated when the elderly get so stubborn. It has made me think more about moving into what is known as "assisted living" in the States when I start struggling to cope. What was the name of that hotel in India that all those actors went and tested out for senior living?


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## Pudsey_Bear

Marigold


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## patp

That's the two!


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## patp

Some, that I have heard of, book themselves onto back to back cruises.


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## GMJ

I haven't updated this thread in a while

- FiL was contacted by the Physiotherapist team ...and turned them down.

- FiL was contacted by Occupational Health for a house assessment...but turned them down.

- FiL had his injections in his knees which worked...for about a week. He cant have more as it is basically 'bone on bone' now in his knees so the injections are not sustainable. He will be offered the operation next week c/w 6 weeks in a restorative home...

Can you guess what his reply will be?

- FiL tried convincing us that the booster jab in England was only for over 75's with underlying health problems. Good luck with that one daddy-o... we read the news too!









He does want a shower seat fitted but turned down Occ Hlth who would have done it. I guess I'll be doing that for him then unless he tries himself.


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## jiwawa

I guess this is the downside of having an independently-minded parent. I'm sure it was a plus in years gone by.


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## GMJ

Not really Jean. He was a stubborn stuck-in-his-ways old git when he was younger









Lovely bloke though but very frustrating.


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## Pudsey_Bear

You're not going to like me when I get older then > >


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## GMJ

Can you get any older Kev?


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## Pudsey_Bear

Kin hope so mate.


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## Pudsey_Bear

See I already am


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## patp

So frustrating Graham. My dad would have been the same if he were still around. My mum, on the other hand, was the complete opposite. It was embarrassing to witness the lengths she would go to in order to get "the help she was entitled to". On balance would rather be dealing with my mum even if she she did drive us potty.


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## GMJ

Frustrating is the word Pat.

He is soooooooooo stuck in his ways. For example he loves watching sport on TV - snooker, darts, rugby - and we have tried for years to get him to have satellite/internet put in so he can get BT Sports and Sky Sports which he could easily afford. Will he do it? No! He'll sit there and watch sport that he doesn't like/know anything about - he'd watch bloody Mongolian Tiddlywinks if it was on - when he could be watching all the stuff he actually enjoys.

Plus a gazillion other frustrations too which would ese his life and make his time more enjoyable. Its at the point where he really is cutting his nose off to spite his face as his default answer is "No"


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## patp

Is there something in our make up that brings it on in old age? I often think that old people secretly expect to be the ones who dish out advice and so find it very hard to take it??


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## Pudsey_Bear

Sounds like he enjoys winding you up which as I know is a sport in and of itself.


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## GMJ

No its not that Kev. Tbh he's been stuck in his ways for years but has just got worse over time.


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## Pudsey_Bear

GMJ said:


> No its not that Kev. Tbh he's been stuck in his ways for years but has just got worse over time.


Of course, I was kidding, I wouldn't like to be told what to do either Liz has tried that tactic, I'm 72, I've managed all my life, but I still do listen, cept when I don't > >


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## GMJ

Bit of a day from hell yesterday.

We were 30 mins into our journey by car to go and see my wife's mother at her old folks home in Bridgend when we got a call to say that Mrs GMJ's father had been involved in a car crash at his home; had had 3 heart attacks; and was being treated by an ambulance.

We went home intending to then chuck our stuff in the MH and drive down to Cheltenham however the MH had decided that this would be a good time to have a flat vehicle battery so wouldn't start. My jump kit wouldn't start it either. So off we went by car instead and are staying with our son in Gloucester.

It transpired later that he had had no heart attacks however had blacked out when reversing his car. The neighbours found him and an ambulance was called. The Fire Brigade then had to come and cut him out of his car (2 vehicles sent). For good measure 4 Police cars came as well!

He was taken to hospital where it transpired that his heart was beating too slowly: so slowly that he had to have chest compressions on a couple of occasions until he could be ventilated and opened up. He underwent emergent surgery to be able to hook him up to an external pacemaker.

The surgery went well and he was stabilised in the ICU. By the end of the day he was coming round and by the evening they took the breathing tube out and we actually got to speak to him by telephone too.

Fingers crossed he is over the initial period so now we'll see what the next steps are...


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## patp

Oh no! What a shock Graham  Had the doc not picked this up when he called round to see FIL? At least he survived it even if the car didn't.
I know that with lots of elderly people they keep them in hospital and refuse to let them home until everything is in place for a safe discharge so it might be a chance to give him the help he is, so far, refusing. One thing about the heart is that it is just a pump and easier to fix than other organs.


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## GMJ

Nothing really to pick up by the local Dr tbh Pat. He was on blood pressure tablets and had his pressure taken recently which didn't show any abnormal heart rate.

And yes, we came to the same conclusion regarding his house. We will see what the immediate future holds and intend to get a stair lift fitted; redecorate his kitchen; deep clean his house and carpets; and probably even get the internet installed for him too.

He'll not be happy but his days of being curmudgeonly are now behind him!


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## Pudsey_Bear

What a shocker, I'm fortunate that all my rellies have gone and I didn't even know until years later, just me left now out of my entire upper family.


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## patp

When Chris was discharged from his heart attack they recommended some classes run by the British Heart Foundation. They were amazing at giving him the confidence to get back to normal. I know FIL has not had a heart attack as such but he will still feel vulnerable. The heart specialist physios hooked Chris up to wireless monitoring and encouraged him to walk up and down and then do some exercises etc. By the end of the six weeks he was marching round the grounds of the cottage hospital like a trooper. As they are physios they can give other advice too and it is all individually tailored. Couldn't recommend them more. Worth joining the BHF to get the healthy recipes they send in their little booklets.


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## GMJ

Thanks Pat

We'll have to see how the land lies and if his attitude to 'stuff' has changed as a result of this scare.


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## erneboy

Sorry to hear all that Graham.


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## H1-GBV

My thoughts are with you too. What a horrible situation!

Although my dad had dementia, we did make some changes to his bathroom without his permission (I took him for a week's holiday) and he was really pleased despite having objected whenever we *discussed *it with him previously.

We also organised "meals on wheels" but he never totally liked them, despite trying various suppliers.

We got carers in for him, initially 3 times der day rising to 5 but he resisted them in all sorts of ways, including filling his door lock with blutack so that they couldn't get in.

Despite a few falls which should have resulted in hospitalisation (he refused and we didn't have PoA for medical care) he went into a care home for a couple of weeks of respite care, but stayed there for 3y until the end of his life (and complained when he saw us but seemed happy if we sneaked in). Social Services assessed him as incapable of looking after himself at home.

I hope things go well for you.

Gordon


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## GMJ

Update

What a day!

Managed to see FiL this morning for half an hour and tbf he was sat up and quite chipper. A touch lost for words sometimes but he has been gong a little that way anyway ...but overall looking the business. They have fitted a temporary pacemaker to him and he has now been moved out of ICU into the Cardio ward. He will be scheduled to have a full blown pacemaker fitted in the near future.

its been a trying 24 hours to say the least but this looks positive.

Poor bloke doesn't appear to have any idea of how long he will actually be in there though...he seems to think he'll be home in a day or two!

Thank you all for your kind wishes and thoughts - much appreciated.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Just keep telling him day after tomorrow and he might be fine. 

Glad he seems to be okay, that's better for the wife too.


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## GMJ

Thanks Kev

She's all over the shop tbh. In a bit of a state which, given her problems, we cant sustain for too long. I have managed to book us into a campsite from tomorrow night so I'll hotfoot it back home tomorrow with my lad driving his car; get a new MH battery; fit it; get to site and plug in; then go back to my lads and pick up Mrs GMJ. She'll be a lot more comfortable in the MH.

I have arranged a stair lift survey for Saturday morning as well, at the FiL's house. 

We figure he'll be out of action for at least a fortnight so we'll get the stair lift put in; my lad and I will decorate his kitchen; we'll all deep clean his house and shampoo all the carpets; I'll fit a shower seat and some strategic grab handles around the place too. He'll go bananas but tough sh1t. The time for niceties is over. He now needs to be told and the ONLY way for him to keep his independence is tough love I'm afraid.

That'll learn 'im!


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## jiwawa

My goodness, what an awful shock to the system Graham! And then the MH not working.... Very glad to hear he's feeling a lot better. Thank God he wasn't actually driving when the blackout occurred.

He's very lucky to have so many people looking out for him and I just hope he's now in the right frame of mind to accept all the changes planned - he'll just have to be! You need it for YOUR peace of mind, never mind his!


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## GMJ

Update

FiL is up and about. he had a temporary pacemaker fitted and is now on the Cardio Ward having been moved from the ICU. He is scheduled to have a permanent pacemaker fitted sometime later next week. We saw him on Thursday and he was on good form. Now he has moved ward apparently the Sister there is quite strict so only Mrs GMj will be able to go and see him today (1 person for 1 hour only per day).

I will be doing a site survey with the stairlift guy this morning and fingers crossed he can get in and get one fitted sharpish. We used him for Mrs GMJ's stairlift a few years ago so hopefully a bit of customer loyalty will win through.


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## patp

Glad things are moving in the right direction for you. Might be prudent to ask FIL if there is any little jobs he wants sorted and then focus his attention on those when he gets discharged. Might make him feel more in control? He is probably not going to be grateful for all the other aids but that is par for the course with our elderly rellies. 

What is happening about his car? Will he get it back or will he be deemed unfit to drive now? Probably too early to know but if he is unfit it will be a tough job breaking that news. It was the one thing we had real problems prising away from my dad. In fact he was just about to get into it when he had his fatal stroke!


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## GMJ

In answer to the question about any little jobs: if I ask him the answer will be no!!

If we can get it sorted I plan to do some little jobs for him anyway: decorating his kitchen; fitting a shower seat; deep cleaning his house and carpets. He'll not be happy but tough. It all depends on how much time we have really.

I need to dig out the insurance for the car. The fire brigade had to cut the door out so the hinges/fixings to the chassis are cut through. This may render it a write off but it depends if the door mounts can be rewelded to the chassis pillar or not. My gut feel is that because they are so important and integral to the vehicle, it'll be written off. aside from that the rest of the damage is superficial.

He'll also need a new fence as well but that can wait for the moment. The FB had to remove it in its entirety to get at him. Its a blessing in disguise really as it was a raggety old chain link one anyway so the next door neighbours will be happy as that will be gone.


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## raynipper

Keep this thread going G. I'm learning tricks here for me.

Ray.


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## erneboy

Best of luck with it Graham. I know how difficult these things can be.


----------



## dghr272

He strikes me as the sort who will think he’s The Bionic Man and feel invincible with his pace maker fitted.
Just hope he’s not thinking he’s fit enough to undo all your good work :surprise:

Terry


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## GMJ

Do you know what Terry - that will be him to the letter. He'll use that as an excuse now not to have stuff done hence we'll try and get as much as we can get done whilst he is incapacitated.

I sent all the details off to the stair lift bloke this morning so we'll see how that goes.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Consider it on the job training for your turn G


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## GMJ

I'll be the opposite to him (and you) I can tell you!!


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## Pudsey_Bear

I resemble that remark you old duffer > >


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## GMJ




----------



## patp

If he is in need of a stair lift, Graham, should he be driving? Or is that another whole can of worms?

My dad had a mild (ish) stroke and it affected his vision. Could we stop him driving?! One day my mum phoned to say that he had driven to the doctors. I phoned them and told them to take his keys away and I was on my way to pick him up. He had lost his peripheral vision. When I berated him for driving like that he said "I can see perfectly well straight ahead!"


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## GMJ

Busy day yesterday amongst which I organised that a stair lift is going to be fitted into his house next Friday. We are using the same chap who fitted Mrs GMJ's in our last house. He is honest and trustworthy and a does a good job. We have gone for a used one with a 12 month warranty as the FiL would like that idea rather than buying new (not because he's tight but because he hates waste).

We have also agreed a plan of attack re cleaning. Both of us along with our son are planning in giving the house a thorough clean tomorrow all day. Then on Weds I have arranged the hire of a Rug Doctor machine for the day to sort the carpets. On Friday when the stairlift is being put in, we'll tackle his kitchen in terms of getting everything out of cupboards and giving it all a good clean.

Re: car. Whilst w are in the house I'll dig out his insurance paperwork and see if I can get the ball rolling on a repair. I suspect it may be a write off due to the nature of where the door was cut off. We'll see. They might not even talk to me tbh. 

Whether he will be able to drive again safely is another matter and I think we'll need to see what the final prognosis is from the Dr at the hospital. His dodgy knees don't limit his ability to drive only his ability to get around. His heart is another matter but when the pacemaker is fitted hopefully this should regulate that.


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## Pudsey_Bear

DVLA might do you a favour if they are informed.


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## GMJ

If there is any doubt I have told Mrs GMJ that we will have to do the decent/proper thing. It'll be hard for him but it's the correct and safe thing to do.



In other news I forgot to mention that we'll be getting a new gas fire fitted for him as well hopefully as well as a shower seat too.


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## GMJ

Phase 1 complete: cleaned his living room, dining room, hallway, bedroom and bathroom (







)

I'm picking up a shower seat and fixings etc tomorrow and will fit this on Wednesday. We will also clean his kitchen then too (more







)

Friday is stair lift fitting day and...wait for it...GOOD NEWS...he has accepted the fact that he has to have one.









Mrs GMJ saw him today and was quite brutal: you either have one or you will have to go and live in a home! Given that he acquiesced. Tbf Mrs GMJ also gave him a really clever 'get out' as she said it would be really useful for her when she visits! This means he can tell everyone that he ONLY had it put in because of her.

Clever girl


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## patp

Wow! Now all you have to do is to get him to use it  My mum was the opposite of your FIL and wanted every "help" going. She managed to get a stair lift and used it to "send" her night time drink upstairs while she walked up! (She was perfectly capable of walking up anyway).

Not sure if I have mentioned this before? When my mum collapsed at home and needed to be blue lighted in on her final trip the poor paramedics could not get the stretcher thing past the stair lift which was still sitting at the top of the stairs after conveying mum's beverage up there. The had to perform an over head lift on her while negotiating the stairs and chair lift. Only mum knew how to work the thing! Perhaps a printed set of instructions might be a belt and braces thing to have nearby?


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## GMJ

We'll be fine Pat. We had one in our last house plus we'll be there Friday when its fitted so will have loads of time to play on it. He won't be coming home for a week or two so we'll make sure the grandsons and neighbours know how to use it too. Great idea on the instructions though: we'll do that and stick it on his wall in the hallway.

It's up to him whether he uses it or not however he is happy that its second hand (he liked that as he hates waste) and I think after he has sent his basket of washing up a few times and when we aren't there he'll secretly try it. He might not admit it but he'll try it!


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## GMJ

Some good news...

FiL had his pacemaker fitted yesterday and Mrs GMJ spoke to him on the phone last night and he was quite chipper. 

I'm visiting him this afternoon so I'll try and get a handle on when he will be released. I suspect that it will be very shortly. It would be great if it wasn't before Friday so we can get the stair lift put in without him being there plus it will give us time to finish off cleaning and let us get some provisions in for him.


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## patp

I expect it will all depend on how he responds to the pacemaker, Graham. He will, I would have thought, have to satisfy various disciplines like OT's and Physios that he is fully fit to go home. All good news that the house is less of a worry for you and Mrs GMJ.


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## Pudsey_Bear

GMJ said:


> We'll be fine Pat. We had one in our last house plus we'll be there Friday when its fitted so will have loads of time to play on it. He won't be coming home for a week or two so we'll make sure the grandsons and neighbours know how to use it too. Great idea on the instructions though: we'll do that and stick it on his wall in the hallway.
> 
> It's up to him whether he uses it or not however he is happy that its second hand (he liked that as he hates waste) and I think after he has sent his basket of washing up a few times and when we aren't there he'll secretly try it. He might not admit it but he'll try it!


Instructions FFS surely ON OFF UP DOWN & STOP are all that should be needed bearing in mind the type of users.


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## powerplus

Kev thay are a little bit more involved than that both arm rests and foot board must be down and some also have seat belts, they must normally be parked at the top or bottom or the charger will not work and also have sensors to detect objects that they can knock into. Some people stop them a little early to have more room on the landing and wander why the battery gets flat


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## raynipper

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Instructions FFS surely ON OFF UP DOWN & STOP are all that should be needed bearing in mind the type of users.


Your dealing with 'old' people Kev.

Ray.


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## dghr272

raynipper said:


> Your dealing with 'old' people Kev.
> 
> Ray.


Kev knows, he just has to look in a mirror for a working example. >

Young Terry :surprise:


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## Pudsey_Bear

raynipper said:


> Your dealing with 'old' people Kev.
> 
> Ray.


Err!! that was my point, we don't want to confuse you Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear

dghr272 said:


> kev knows, he just has to look in a mirror for a working example. >
> 
> young terry :surprise:


tart!!


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## patp

In our scenario mum had organised the fitting herself and had the lessons on how to use it. I have my suspicion that she never sat on it in anger. When the paramedics came and wanted to transport her she was not compos mentis enough to help us. We could not figure it out quickly and neither could they. She was "air lifted" down the stairs in the end.


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## GMJ

Update time

FiL is going to be released any hour now!!

That's 1 week exactly since his incident and release. He is waiting on blood test results and then they will let him go. We spent the day at his place: I fitted a shower seat and a grab rail, for good measure. Then I joined Mrs GMJ in cleaning the kitchen. We managed around half of it until we ran out of time. It was minging...

So we are back at Cirencester C&MC site awaiting a call to drive back to Cheltenham. We'll settle him in tonight and then return tomorrow morning to see him plus I'll go to Morrisons to do his fortnightly shop for him. He keeps his receipts so we know exactly what he buys every 2 weeks!

I git the hospital to do a stairs test on him to check that he could manage stairs...which he passed with flying colours. The stair lift is still going in on Friday though!

Great news but we are knackered!


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## patp

As you say, Graham, nice for him but you could have done with more time!


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## jiwawa

I'm sure you're both exhausted Graham - it's the emotional strain as well as the physical. Hopefully FIL will settle well when he gets home and all the prep you've done will give you more peace of mind.


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## GMJ

FiL was release at around 6.30 last night so we drove over and picked him up. During my visit to him earlier that day I had had a chat with him about outlook and perspective and the wake up call that this should have given him regarding his intransigence (I didn't use that word!!). Tbf then when we got him home he put his alarm call pendant straight on (I'd mentioned it earlier) and when we called his brother up he admitted on the phone that he had agreed to the stair lift too.

Anyway he seemed quite impressed with the smell of 'clean' in his house and we unpacked his hospital stuff and settled him in with a can of John Smiths. When we left him he was standing on his doorstep looking at his front garden.

He'll probably get a bit ornery today as our son is visiting first thing on his way to work; we are then there to sort his shopping and car insurance out; and Mrs GMJ's eldest son will visit this afternoon. I expect his next door neighbours will want a catch up too!..

...and all he will want to do is watch the snooker on TV!


NB: I mentioned his brother. He is a really fit 80 year old who cycles everywhere but his house is worse than the FiL's. We describe it as a throw back to the 1930's as he has no hot running water and no inside toilet. And, as with the FiL, we cannot get him to change things either...it must be a genetic thing I guess!


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## dghr272

Well played all of you, he’s very lucky to have such a caring family.

Terry


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## GMJ

We popped over yesterday morning to find him up and about and very pleased with what we had done for him. Our lad popped in to see him en route to work and stayed and had a cup of tea with him. He was still trying to find things we had tidied up and had started to spread himself again with all his junk, papers, notes etc...but still, at least they are now spread on clean surfaces!

I went and did his shopping for him at Morrison's then taped down the threshold on his bedroom carpet which was coming adrift and was a trip hazard. I then managed to fix his gas fire as the starter knob had come loose. It transpired that it had thrown a retainer clip which I managed to get back on, so he was pleased. It also saved him £17 on buying a new piece for it too!

Today we'll finish off cleaning the kitchen; get his car insurance sorted; and have the stairlift installed. We will also have a conversation with him about getting a cleaner in and also the internet! I doubt either will work but it's best to strike whilst the iron is hot.


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## GMJ

Fanfare time

The stairlift is in!!









All fitted and FiL has had a few ups and downs in it before we left him...although he did insist on seeing if he could still get up and down the stairs using the one remaining handrail









Kitchen is immaculate too so a good day although our son is there now and reporting that he isn't happy but I suspect that he feels the need to say that just to keep face.

Hopefully over time he'll get used to it and see the benefit.

He is wearing his alarm call pendant though, so some consolation I suppose.


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## patp

Wonderful news Graham. Now, can you come and have a word with Chris about .................. Only jesting! My heart feels uplifted


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## GMJ

Than ks Pat

We wont see him until Monday now when the list will be

- Sorting out his car insurance
- Seeing which insurance to claim off for the demolished fence (car or house)
- Talk with him about a cleaner (once a fortnight for 2-3 hours should suffice)
- Talk with him about getting wifi in his house so his grandchildren can comes and stay occasionally and can work from there
- Talk with him about applying for a blue badge

It'll all rest on whether he has had a proper wake up call after his recent incident or whether he is just paying us lip service and will be back to his old ways again.


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## patp

Your teenager handling skills will come in handy Graham. They say old people become like children and I am sure that they love the attention that comes with little achievements.


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## jiwawa

patp said:


> I am sure that they love the attention that comes with little achievements.


Dont we all Pat!?! Graham, delighted it's going to plan so far.


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## GMJ

A mixed day today with the FiL...

- No problem with me sorting out the car insurance for him and it's now underway.

- No problem with my applying for a Blue Badge for him so the application is now in.

- I ordered a new vacuum cleaner for him as by his own volition his c.1950's era original Hoover has had it!

- He is using the stair lift all the time and admits that it is good.

- He used his shower seat today to have a sponge bath and found it and the handrail useful.



After this it went downhill...

- A definite NO to the cleaner even though its a lady who lives 5 doors down whom he knows. "I don't want anyone poking around in 'ere...". I did explain that we would not be able to come up every few weeks and clean for him and it would be very disappointing if it all got dirty again after all the graft put in to making it clean. Hopefully he'll cogitate on that.

- A definite NO to the internet being put in despite my assuring him that it would not affect his life one iota and would cost very little once I had sorted BT out (whom I suspect have been ripping him off for years) AND that he wouldn't have to have anyone in to set it up AND that it would mean his grand kids could come and stay with him as they could work from there.

We are away from here tomorrow and wont see him now until June. We will organise his grandchildren to take turns sorting his food shopping until we know what's happening with his car.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Maybe if he likes TV, you could tell him about all the movies and other stuff he could watch on TV (Netflix, Prime, Youtube etc, Porn   ) if he had the internet, maybe he's a bit frightened of it, many old folk are, he doesn't have to have a puter, it's all done on a remote.


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## GMJ

No chance Kev. I had to tell him the opposite: that it wouldn't mean that he had to have BT Sports/Sky etc. His view is that he has 140 channels now on his freeview box so more than enough for him....


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## Pudsey_Bear

Ah well, not a lot you can pick on there.


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## GMJ

I agree mate but he will just watch any sport that's on and game shows I think...of which there are plenty.


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## patp

I wonder if the grandkids would have more success? Little hints like "I can't come today with your shopping because you have no internet and I need it". I know it is flimsy but often the elderly align with the youngsters


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## GMJ

Good idea Pat and has been tried. He won't budge at the moment regardless of who hints. The grandchildren have organised it and Mrs GMJ's eldest son is taking him shopping next week. He is an absolute tool so I can't see that going too well.

In other news the insurance company have said that they will repair his car so I'm just waiting on them providing details of who will be doing it and when they will be collecting it. The FiL has also organised that one of his other cars (he has 3!!) will be going into a garage to have a new clutch fitted...which tbh probably costs more than the car is worth but the FiL likes having a spare usable car??!!


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## patp

Three cars! There's nowt so queer as folk. My old dad was really frugal but then he would gamble on the horses and dogs!


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## GMJ

Yes I know, 3

He has a 20 year old VW Lupo that he bought off his brother for 400 odd quid around 10-12 years ago ostensibly for the grandchildren to have and use until they got their own cars. It has ended up back with him and, as he doesn't like waste, he has kept it.

He bought a year old VW Golf when we moved down to west Wales so he felt more comfortable and safe in a more modern car when visiting us. He managed to come around twice I think and would now find it too much for him.

But the real killer is that he has a Rolls Royce in his garage which hasn't moved for a few years now. Up to that point he only took it out once a year to MOT it and hasn't had to do that for a few years now as its exempt! We have suggested for years that he sell it but he wont. For what reason we don't know.


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## dghr272

GMJ said:


> Yes I know, 3
> 
> He has a 20 year old VW Lupo that he bought off his brother for 400 odd quid around 10-12 years ago ostensibly for the grandchildren to have and use until they got their own cars. It has ended up back with him and, as he doesn't like waste, he has kept it.
> 
> He bought a year old VW Golf when we moved down to west Wales so he felt more comfortable and safe in a more modern car when visiting us. He managed to come around twice I think and would now find it too much for him.
> 
> But the real killer is that he has a Rolls Royce in his garage which hasn't moved for a few years now. Up to that point he only took it out once a year to MOT it and hasn't had to do that for a few years now as its exempt! We have suggested for years that he sell it but he wont. For what reason we don't know.


Never usually stuck for words but……………. :surprise:

Terry


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## HermanHymer

There's a message in this for all of us. If you're blessed to have someone who looks after you, listen and say yes, dear!


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## nicholsong

HermanHymer said:


> There's a message in this for all of us. If you're blessed to have someone who looks after you, listen and say yes, dear!


Yes Dear!


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## H1-GBV

We had several people who asked "aren't you proud that your Dad is still such an independently-minded soul?"

They just couldn't accept that our answer had to be "NO!"

Gordon

(Except, yes, to a degree we were BUT did he really need to phone 999 and say that he was being held hostage?
What would have happened if the window opened wide enough to use his "rope ladder" (made from toilet paper) to get out from his second floor flat?
Did I enjoy "talking him back" after he'd made it 50 yards down the road with his Zimmer frame?)


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## GMJ

We love the fact that he is independent but we don't like the stupidity to just say "no" because that's what he is used to saying.


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## GMJ

I haven't updated this for a while so here goes...

- FiL is using his stair lift all the time and, though he would never admit it, probably loves it.

- His son fitted a new fence for him yesterday much to the chagrin of the next door neighbours as he went with what was originally there - A 4 foot high chain link - when they wanted a posh wooden one. His fence, his money we say.

- There is some evidence that he is wearing his alarm call pendant but we'll have to see if that's true when we next see him.

- His car is in for repair by the insurers and due back on 13th June.

- No news on his blue badge yet.


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## jiwawa

That's mostly very positive Graham - must be a relief when you're so far away. BTW, I meant to say elsewhere (but MHF was upgrading at the time) I found SuperU consistently better on price of diesel all the way up through France (1.72-1.75) tho up here in Normandy they're on a par with others (1.82/3).


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## HermanHymer

There's a breed of folk who always respond with NO, before they even consider the question fully. I knew one very well!!!


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## GMJ

HermanHymer said:


> There's a breed of folk who always respond with NO, before they even consider the question fully. I knew one very well!!!


Thanks

We tend to head towards supermarkets but haven't used a Super U yet on this trip. I'll keep an eye out.

FiL was quite happy yesterday as he had had the new fence fitted plus as a bonus it pissed off his neighbours who wanted the posh wooden one fitted instead.


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## GMJ

Just an update

FiL is safe and well at his house. His damaged car was delivered back to him on Monday from the repairers: all shiny and new looking. The DVLA have confirmed that he can still carry on driving except when he has the battery changed in his pacemaker then he can't for a week. As he will be 93 by then, we'll worry about that in 2032!  

He is still at his curmudgeonly best though as we are seeing him this Friday which was ostensibly so we could take him out for a belated Fathers Day lunch...but he has refused to go!

He'll not be in a great mood after we have been there for a while as myself, Mrs GMJ and our son plan on cleaning his house whilst we are there. He doesn't know about this but it hasn't been touched since we did the deep clean while he was in hospital. It'll p1ss him off big style however the simple solution - which we have been suggesting - is that he gets a cleaner in. Hopefully seeing us clean after him will tip him that way.

Fingers crossed!


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## raynipper

Tell him the cleaner might be young and pretty to take his mind of other things?  

Ray.


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## GMJ

Well we had some success yesterday at the FiL's place. I managed to clean the bathroom and his bedroom but he would not let Mrs GMJ to his kitchen...he was adamant. So I cleaned that for him too. Our lad also dusted and vacuumed downstairs for him. 

He was not happy with any of us for doing this (despite the fact that it hadn't been done sine we last did it when he was in hospital!). We worked on him to consider getting a cleaner in which he was averse to however at least we have planed the seed.

He s struggling to do his garden now and its getting a little wild. I suggested that if he wanted any little jobs doing in the garden I would happily sort them but again, he refused. He loves his garden and gardening but would rather see it run wild than ask for or accept any help!


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## GMJ

The FiL's Blue Badge should arrive any day now. I applied for him in April and I had confirmation last week, that he was accepted. He is well chuffed about it too


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## patp

Glad, that at least he is happy about something.
Just a thought... does FIL have his eyes tested regularly and does he get the prescription changed when needed? My father was a tight a**e and we found out he was refusing to change the prescription because "he could see perfectly well with the old glasses". A lady in the village cannot make out people's faces or see her dog running in the distance. I have seen her driving and she does not wear glasses!


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## GMJ

Thanks Pat

No he is slightly long sighted and has been for years, so that is fine.

Our next 'battle' is over trying to get him to have a cleaner. He is refusing to but he is not cleaning his place himself so I have to do it when we go and see him. He won't let Mrs GMJ do it and when we asked her brother to help - just by having a quick frape around when he visited - he refused!


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## patp

Does he have the notion of a nosy old woman coming to clean? If so, could you find a company that has some male cleaners? Even if not, if he visualises it being cleaned by a "company" that might sit better with him?


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## GMJ

Good points there Pat. I'll discuss it with Mrs GMJ.

I think it's the thought of a stranger coming in his house really. We pointed out that a local woman whom he knows, does cleaning so she wouldn't be a stranger but to no avail...


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## GMJ

patp said:


> Does he have the notion of a nosy old woman coming to clean? If so, could you find a company that has some male cleaners? Even if not, if he visualises it being cleaned by a "company" that might sit better with him?


Mrs G reckons that deep down he is embarrassed as the place is a bit of a tip so he doesn't want anyone in there. I'll mention the male cleaner angle to him though, when we see him in August for his birthday


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## jiwawa

GMJ said:


> The FiL's Blue Badge should arrive any day now. I applied for him in April and I had confirmation last week, that he was accepted. He is well chuffed about it too


That's an unexpected positive! 

I suspect from what you say he'd be happier with an 'anonymous' cleaner than a neighbour.


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## GMJ

I'm not sure he'll be happy with any cleaner tbh  but we'll keep working on him!

In another breakthrough we got his 80 year old brother a mobile phone when the FiL went into hospital. This is the 80 year old brother who has no phone...or central heating...or running hot water...or a car on the road (although his perfectly good car has been in his garage for 2 years now, untouched). We had given the brother a mobile before but he never switched it on and eventually the credit died however this time he has switched it on and he is answering it! We ring him once a fortnight just to check that he is OK. 

Anyway we told the FiL that his bro was now available on the phone so he could call him and check on him etc. Wouldn't that be nice etc etc

FiL response: No,no,no..I'll not be doing that! 

You couldn't make it up...


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## H1-GBV

You might be missing out on some potential problems!

Last night (6pm ish) 94 y old MiL rang us. She said nothing; she failed to respond to shouts asking what was wrong. Eventually she rang off. So we rang her only to be told that she hadn’t rung us but had been trying to watch the News. However the tv wasn’t working no matter which button she pressed.
The joy of old age!

Gordon


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## GMJ

Yes the FiL did once take the TV remote control outside with him in the garden thinking it was the phone  

Luckily both he and his brother are fully compos mentis


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## GMJ

Just an update.

FiL is still trucking on and still as ornery as ever  

We have just had to renew his fall alarm system that he refuses to use as he wont carry the fob in his pocket or have it on the pendant around his neck. No reason given. Anyway we took out the lifetime subscription at 750 quid as I can't have Mrs GMJ having stress/anxiety/arguments every year about it. If we can get him to pay for it, then I think he'll use it as he wont like paying for something and then not using it! If he doesn't, we'll pay and keep working on him...


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## raynipper

I think I need to take lessons from your FIL G. Sounds like my kinda bloke.

Ray.


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## jiwawa

Well, don't turn into that sort of bloke who stresses everyone else for the sake of something small, like carrying a fob.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I bet he's less stressed living alone, I know I was.


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## GMJ

He loves it Kev. He can do what he wants when he wants but unfortunately that is what has turned him into a curmudgeon.


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## Pudsey_Bear

You mean someone who has an opinion that differs to yours, in that case so am I mostly.

A curmudgeon is usually only bad tempered because they want to be left alone, I'm only 5 years older than Liz but she seems to think I need help with things and need to be told what and how to do things, and yes I do now and then as we all do, but I can also ask if I need it, and still have enough faculties left to know I can't do some things now.


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## GMJ

No he is entitled to his opinion but not to act in a way that stresses my wife out and adds to her anxiety issues, on purpose, just because he can! It's selfish.

The difference between you and him Kev is that if you have a problem you sort it. He muddles along and it causes problems for him and hence then everyone around him.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Hmm, Does he really do it on purpose G? or does it just feel that way? 

If I have a problem I sometimes sort it myself, depends what it is, I sometimes get Liz to do things as she has more patience than me, and it's a chance (a rare one) where I get to tell her what to do  

And I am deffo a curmudgeon, I like to be left alone, but as much as she can be annoying I don't want to be left alone


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## GMJ

Yes he always does stuff and says to our lad "Don't tell your mother"...knowing full well that he will tell her just to wind her up!

We love the fact that he wants his independence however for him to have that he needs to make changes and embrace them. For example, he was walking backwards down the stairs as his knees are shot...and this after having collapsed and been found left on the floor for over 10 hours overnight. We had plagued him to get a stairlift but he refused. It is this kind of reaction that causes anxiety.

Another: We have just renewed his fall alarm system for him. For no good reason at all, he didn't want it renewing...despite the fact that he has had more then one fall. It is simply not fair on his neighbours or his family to have that kind of worry when he can make a simple adjustment to his life.


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## raynipper

None of us like to admit we can't do what we used to do G.
Yes we should realise we can't but it hard and probably takes twice as long taking care.

Ray.


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## GMJ

I appreciate that Ray, I really do. Mrs GMJ can only do a tiny fraction of what an able bodied 58 year old could do, so we do live with compromises a lot.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I have thought more than once over the last year or so that maybe I've had enough, perhaps the old chap feels the same.


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## patp

Pain can make people curmudgeonly. Might be worth finding out if he has pain that he is "putting up with".
My mother was the same with her pendant. She actually applied to have one but always left it on the bedside table  When she was taken poorly, just before she died, she was in bed but was too sick to find it and press it.
I read an article, years ago, which has always stayed with me. The author lived a good distance from her mother but phoned regularly. The list of moans and groans was taking its toll on her to a point where she dreaded those calls. She decided to only respond to upbeat, positive comments and to just go silent when the moans and groans started. It took a little while but, eventually, the phone conversations changed to the more positive type where mother recounted chats with neighbours or success stories of her managing to do things rather than complaints.


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## GMJ

Tbf he doesn't moan and groan...he just does what he wants  

He doesn't want it all to end either...he lives life. It's just that he doesn't want to do anything to make himself more comfortable.


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## Pudsey_Bear

But he doesn't do what you want, seems fairy snuff to me, perhaps Mrs G needs to let go a little.


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## GMJ

You have the wrong end of the stick here in a number of ways Kev so we'll lave it there.


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## H1-GBV

Dad used to leave message boards in the windows telling the carers to go away. He blocked the key hole with blutac so that they couldn’t get in. Despite being diabetic, his cupboard was full of cake and biscuits; did his dementia stop him remembering that he shouldn’t have them? He wanted to drink whiskey although alcohol clashed with his medication. We fought over all of those things, face-to-face and on the phone.
Once he was in the care home, diet and medication was sorted. He tried to “escape” regularly and friends told us to admire his independence but we only saw it as “grief”. Why couldn’t he just relax and enjoy being looked after in a safe environment?
Now that he is no longer with us, we ask if we were wrong. Should we have just left him unwashed and hungry? Should we have allowed him to enjoy his sugar and alcohol?
Life is a one way road: we choose what we think is best but sometimes wonder what happens when we go a different way.

Best wishes - Gordon


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## raynipper

Yes we tried to stop my mum doing daft things at 90. It was funny really until she fell and hastened her end. 

Ray.


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## GMJ

Yep - these are our worries plus it affects my wife's health both mentally and physically. Nothing we suggest is out of left field, just small things that would make his life easier and safer. His default answer is 'No' without even thinking for literally 1 second how it might improve his well being. Being alone for so long he has defaulted to this answer for anything asked of him...it is now his automatic reaction.


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## Pudsey_Bear

No offence intended G, it's difficult to comment on a situation remotely based on forum posts which by their nature only tell part of any story as it's all very complicated.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I hate change, Liz is always buggering about and moving things, then when I ask where she's moved something denies ever seeing it.

She is also a serial procrastinator and barking mad, she was on her phone to her daughter a few months ago and wanted to send her a picture via WhatsApp, and the silly bugger asked me where her phone was, I said her daughter might know.


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## GMJ

Pudsey_Bear said:


> No offence intended G, it's difficult to comment on a situation remotely based on forum posts which by their nature only tell part of any story as it's all very complicated.


None taken at all mate. No worries


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## Pudsey_Bear

Ballcocks does that mean I wasted all that effort and have to start again?


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## GMJ




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## patp

Chris's mum was type 2 diabetic. Whenever we visited her she had a pile of chocolate and sweets beside her chair. On one occasion she was rushed to hospital with a suspected heart attack. We followed her there and spent hours waiting around and worrying. It used to really annoy me that she had this "sod it I will have another treat if I want one" attitude which caused us to worry. Guess who is just like his mother? I think some of it is upbringing. I was brought up to not be a burden on anyone and to modify my behaviour if it was causing distress to others.

Chris's mum died of a heart attack in the hairdresser's. Those poor people had to deal with all that trauma. Then the police had to come and break the news to Chris. No doubt she felt a bit off colour but thought "sod it I will get my hair done".


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## Pudsey_Bear

If Chris follows suit maybe tough love will work, not easy to do though.


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