# LPG Bottle v Bulk Tank



## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Hi guys, some help please, and guidance.

I am considering fitting an 85 - 116 litre bulk LPG tank, the cost is an indicative £600. I am working on the theory that 6kg bottle will hold some 12 litres of gas at a cost of £1 per litre. From what I recall bulk gas is retailing at about £0.50p. Thus am I right in assuming that I will only recoup the £600 outlay after using close on 1200 litres of gas.

Any pitfalls, I accept that I will have to be aware of the weight implication, with about 85 litres on board this will weigh about 43 kgs,plus tank, less 2 x 6kg bottles having been removed.

Thanks Ken


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

I’m also thinking of doing the same thing, but not such a large tank. The reason for me changing is not cost, but being able to refill in France and Spain plus it leaves the gas locker free for other uses.
Whats the point of such a large tank? In Spain winter before last we uses less than 6kg a month and it was cold! If you free camp a lot ie. no electric hook-up then maybe a larger tank, but then again you are probably passing gas stations at regular intervals


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

dawnraider said:


> Hi guys, some help please, and guidance.
> 
> I am considering fitting an 85 - 116 litre bulk LPG tank, the cost is an indicative £600. I am working on the theory that 6kg bottle will hold some 12 litres of gas at a cost of £1 per litre. From what I recall bulk gas is retailing at about £0.50p. Thus am I right in assuming that I will only recoup the £600 outlay after using close on 1200 litres of gas.
> 
> ...


Hi

My calculations are as follows.

To exchange a 6kg "Calor" gas cylinder cost about a tenner. (12 litres)

Assuming you have 2 x 6 kg cylinders, an exchange of both cylinders will cost about £20.00.

2 x 6 kg cylinders = approximately 24 litres of gas - already calculated that this costs about £20.00.

24 litres of LPG costs about (24 x 42p) = £10.08

Therefore on each 42 litres used, you save £9.92

That is an awful lot of investment to recoup!

To recoup £600.00, you would therefore need to use 1451.61 litres of gas before you break even. Only at that point do you start making any savings.

Only you can answer how much gas you use.

As an alternative, if you could dump the 6kg cylinders and replace them with 13kg cylinders, that works out much better value. My local DIY shop charges a tenner to swap a 6 kg cylinder and only £12.20 for a 13 kg cylinder.

Rapide561


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Guzzijim, rapide561, thank you both for your input, that has given me food for thought, back to the drawing board, the answer is out there somewhere. Will keep you posted when I , sorry when the wife decides for us. Thanks again Ken


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi 

As clearly demonstrated by Rapide561, payback would be a long time, however, the benefits of being able to fill up anywhere in Europe with no worries about different bottles plus the extra space created by the vacated bottle locker, in my opinion it's well worth doing.. a large tank can be a real bonus if travelling in Spain where LPG isn't so readily available.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Refilling gas*



ScotJimland said:


> Hi
> 
> As clearly demonstrated by Rapide561, payback would be a long time, however, the benefits of being able to fill up anywhere in Europe with no worries about different bottles plus the extra space created by the vacated bottle locker, in my opinion it's well worth doing.. a large tank can be a real bonus if travelling in Spain where LPG isn't so readily available.


Hi all

Forgot to say that the other option would be Gaslow. (Guessing) about £400.00 fitted, so not that much cheaper than the under floor tank.

A good point made by Jim through regarding the extra locker you would gain.

Rapide561


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

guzzijim said:


> ...... In Spain winter before last we uses less than 6kg a month and it was cold! ........


I know there are loads of variables but what's the "average" time you all get for a 6kg tank?
6kg lasting a month sounds a bit optimistic for me.


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## 96088 (Aug 22, 2005)

I've been giving some thought to this lately as well and i agree with Jim

The previous owner of my van increased the size of the bottles and it is now a nightmare to disconnect them due to lack of space. I find I have to disconnect the line at the point where it joins the crossover valve(if that's what it is called). I can then disconnect the regulators from the bottles, change the bottles and reverse the process.

This can easily be fixed by making the lines a lot longer from the crossover valve so that I can drop the bottles on the ground and access is then easy.

Or I could get smaller bottles.

Everytime I look at this job I think what a waste of space the current design is and what else I could use such a valuable storage area for.

That bit is difficult to cost out in purely economic terms. as I think Jim suggests in his posting.

If I had a spare £600 to spend on the van then I might well choose to spend it on a small bulk tank.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> I know there are loads of variables but what's the "average" time you all get for a 6kg tank?
> 6kg lasting a month sounds a bit optimistic for me.


On a recent winter holiday with no hook up we were getting through a 6kg refillable every 2 - 3 days depending on how often the heating was used (temps varying from cold to pigging freezing!).
In summer it seems to last for ages, usually 3 weeks depending on how much cooking is done.

pete.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Dawnraider,

Having been caravanners in a previous life, we have always been used to 3, 6, or 13kg cylinders, the latter being chained to the caravan because it was too big too fit in the gas locker.

In our current life, our first MH has a bulk gas tank fitted as standard. 

Oh Boy, what a difference. we filled it up to the brim in March, and it is still over half full, or empty, depending on which way you look at it.

We pay between 39.9p and 49p per litre and it often means that we are able to operate without paying the premium for mains hook up.

As we didn't pay for the installation costs, we cannot comment on costings in general. But from an ergonomic point of view, it is extremely conveinient to have a bulk tank

Hope this helps,

J & R


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

the main point to look at is are you going to spend long periods away abroad.if so then a refillable tank would be very useful.can you get larger bottles into the existing gas locker or not.We have a tank and when or if we change vehicles it will have a tank fitted.However the other route is to have an eberspacher heater and gas bottles for cooking only.try finding out what the cost would be for fitting one of them as well.you might be surprised.again less chance of running out of fuel when touring abroad.


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Running our 6Kg Gaslow bottle lasted 21 days to completely empty staying half in half hookup sites and aires during a very hot June this year with fridge going flat out when on gas. Refill cost 8 EUR in France for 11.2 litres (max it would take).

1450 litres would be need a very long payback time unless fulltiming and a large tank could be a considerable hit on the payload especially as it is relatively easy to refill in most of Europe

Steve


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Cabby,

I agree with you in principal, but, have you seen the price of Eberspachers or Webastos? They are quite expensive, and they won't heat the water, unlike a gas/electric system.

Jock.


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

tonyt said:


> guzzijim said:
> 
> 
> > ...... In Spain winter before last we uses less than 6kg a month and it was cold! ........
> ...


Don't know how you guys run out of gas so quickly! Do you make full use of electric hook-up only using gas when absolutely necessary?
We carry and use the following electrical appliances = convector heater, toaster, kettle, paella pan which cooks more than paella, the trama electic heater for hot water is built-in and the fridge.
Obviously we can't use them all at the same time, but with a bit of giggling and experience you only blow the trip about once a week in the end.


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

Having used a 6kg bottle of gas during my first week and having trouble getting a refill on a Saturday afternoon, I decided that a refillable gas system was needed. Just by coincident, we were going to the Peterborough Motorhome Show where I knew Gaslow were exhibiting. A quick chat with the Gaslow fitter regarding fitting and refilling costs convinced me that I would save money on gas from day 1. As I was planning a trip round Europe the system was fitted with 2x11kg refillable bottles. Fitting took about 45 mins and included a thorough test for gas leaks and instructions on how to fill both here in the UK and abroad - Cost £450. With 6kg refills costing between £15 and £18, my first refill – 20litres @ 43p litre - saved me between £22 and £28. I no longer have to worry about getting refills as gas is available in most Garages throughout France and Germany but not Spain although, the numbers of stations selling gas are increasing month by month. As I full time in my van and mostly off hook up, the fridge is always on - these are the highest users of gas in any 'van - So far I would guess that the Gaslow system has saved me about £300 since mid April.

Dave

656


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

From the Deepings, Hello Dave & Edwina.


That's 2/3rds of the system paid for already.

Excellent.

J & R


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

JockandRita said:


> From the Deepings, Hello Dave & Edwina.
> 
> That's 2/3rds of the system paid for already.
> 
> ...


Hi both

Hope you are well. Greetings from Slough

D & E


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

JockandRita said:


> Cabby,
> 
> I agree with you in principal, but, have you seen the price of Eberspachers or Webastos? They are quite expensive, and they won't heat the water, unlike a gas/electric system.
> 
> Jock.


My webasto heats the water.

Haven't used up a single 2.75 Kg cylinder of Camping Gaz yet in over 40 nights away and only two hookup nights.

What do you guys do with your gas - burn it? :wink:

Frank


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

> My webasto heats the water.


Frank,

I stand corrected.   :lol:

My experiences of Webasto / Eberspacher are as night heaters, and very efficient ones too.

Jock.


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## 89682 (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi Dawnraider

Your general principal about the cost of gas ie Calor v autogas from a garage is of course spot on. Not everybody can fit 13kg bottles into their van, so of course then get stung for over a £1.00 per litre.

The question then is, which is best. The Gaslow type system or a fixed tank?

Gaslow: When you change you van you can take the bottles with you. Of course you would probably have to replace the filler part so as to not leave a hole in the van.

Fixed Tank: May be cheaper initially ( see link),

http://www.gasure.co.uk/underfloor.htm

free up a locker for storage. Downside not easily transferrable to another vehicle.

Other benefits I think apply to both systems ie ability to fill up anywhere, no worries about different regulators etc. Payback time obviously depends upon use, that's an individual calculation everybody's use of gas will vary. I am alway's suspicious of claims that I bought a 3kg bottle of camping gaz six months ago and it hasn't run out yet, usually made in the depths of winter, It's almost like there should be a special prize awarded for non use of gas.

I will tell you one thing is that from personal experience, I fill my own bottles, that a 13 kg bottled filled with autogas, lasts a damm sight longer than one exchanged with calor. I don't know why but it just does.

One final point. I wonder why that the gaslow system ends up at about £450, when their bottles are only £85.00 each for the 11 kg size!

Regards

Herman


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## NormanB (Sep 8, 2005)

*DIY and half the cost?*

You could consider fitting an underslung tank yourself for less than half the cost. The work has been described in detail in a MMM/Practical MH/Other MH magazine in the last year.

See http://www.gasure.co.uk/underfloor.htm

(I haven't done this yet but am tempted.....)


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

Herman said:


> I wonder why that the gaslow system ends up at about £450, when their bottles are only £85.00 each for the 11 kg size!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Herman


Cost includes bottles - x 2, refills, all pipes, changeover valve, filling valve, continental adapters and fitting. I have the exact cost of each but that is in the van. If any one wants the exact cost of each part then either PM me or post here and I will gladly post them.

Dave

656


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## 89682 (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi Dave 

I know that there "other bits" needed the various valves etc. But these do seem expensive. I can't help it being a Yorkshireman, and therefore naturally reluctant to parting with money! The fitting as you know only requires a largish hole being drilled in the locker door. I always feel that the total job includes a substantial markup! Given the price of the cylinders. 

In my view anything to do with the leisure market involves lets think of a price - then double it. But the Gaslow system is good. 

Regards 

Herman


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