# Advice please?



## 99559 (Jun 6, 2006)

Hi

Hope this post is in the right forum, I'm trying to decide if I should by an RV- We've borrowed this one for the last week for a holiday and had a brillant time, now I'm a bit stuck;

- The Rv is a Fleetwood Phoenix Flyer 1996 with 52000 miles.
Its MOT'd until next March and the owner ( who I know well) has had the front brakes redone ( calipers/ discs) . We did 400 miles in it without any mechanical problems but it is quite tired inside and out nothing other than cosmetic but the dilemma is do I buy this one and make it how I want it - LPG conversion, new carpets, blinds etc or do I start to try and find one with everything done. The price he wants is £13000. so I reckon that leaves enough in the value to get the mods done without it costing anymore than a normal one, but again prices seem to be a matter of opinion.

It has all the normal bits F/Freezer, microwave, onan gen , towbar etc.

Has anyone gone down this route - and is there anything that's a must do?

Sorry for all the questions but hopefully you may be able to convince me!

Main use will be family getaways and motor racing ( an even easier way to spend money)  

thanks in advance 
Morgan


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Morgan. 
This post will generate a lot of opinion I'm sure.. and not everyone will agree, my thoughts are this.. 
Decide first of all if you like the layout, size etc. 
Do you want a petrol / LPG conversion or would you be happier with a diesel.
The costs of getting it 'just the way' you want it will stack up:

LPG Conversion £2500 ish
New Upholstery £1,500 +
Carpets, Blinds £300 +
Total ~ £4.5k 

IMO, provided there are no other serious mechanical problems this would still be a good buy for what is a low millage RV .. total now £17.5k


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi morgsrv, I am with Jim on this, at 52,000 mls. its hardly run in, so the mechanics should be ok. and the bonus to me is that you know the owner well, so hopefully he will have told you about any faults. Something a dealer or private seller is unlikely todo.

Olley


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this post but I have a similar question.

We purchased a new 27ft European (Burstner 747) last Year and although we looked at the American RV's at the time I was a little bit worried about the size and the cost of ownership.

However, a Year on and although our European model is a great van you can't "lounge" in the same way has you can the americans.

When in Dudleys yesterday I spotted a couple ice vans with between 37,000 to 45,000 miles on the clock and some looked very, very clean.

The question is, how easy is it to get parts, how fixable are they?
If I invest in one of these should I want to sell it say in 12 months time will I get a good return on my investment?

Regards
Hugh


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## 99559 (Jun 6, 2006)

ScotJimland said:


> Decide first of all if you like the layout, size etc.
> Do you want a petrol / LPG conversion or would you be happier with a diesel.
> The costs of getting it 'just the way' you want it will stack up:
> 
> ...


thanks Jim, 
Size wise its as big as I want to go I think the overhang and width will have my full attention

I think that the additional costs of the diesel will be cancelled out by the savings on LPG - the LPG should give about 15MPG equiv I think so that should narrow the margin. Additional sound proofing to the cab as well should help keep the noise down.

Layout isn't bad I'm not sure if the fixed double bed is better than having additonal seating and a relaxing area but its not the end of the world.

The only other add-on will be a pc to manage the phone, tv, sat-nav , cameras and entertainment, but I'll be installing that myself.

thanks
Morgan


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Morgan

Well we have been there and done that, we have all the T shirts too....
I would advise getting it checked over by a competent RV mechanic just to be sure that there are no surprises waiting for you....
The price is good to start and as Jim has indicated everything can be done, only your imagination and pocket depth will stop you :lol: :lol: You comment about buying this one versus a "normal" one, well for what it is worth I think a decent 10 year old RV would set you back £25Kish at least, and bear in mind that everything in it is 10 years old too, unless there is another looney out there like me :lol: :lol: :lol: , and so you will still need or want to refurbish it at some point in time.....
If you look at some of my posts you will see the things that we have done to ours and we are just about finished (yeah right!!!) with the spending now.
You will see from my posts that we have just had ours reupholstered and Jims figure is close to the truth and so is the carpeting cost although I would add the cost of the blinds, say another £300ish.
Everything is obtainable usually (maybe not model specific, so beware...) but things for the chassis will be available and usually not too expensive, it is the shipping that costs though :lol: :lol: 
Our RV is a 30ft diesel Chevy P30 based, an returns around 14 - 16 MPG, which we think is reasonable. Is the LPG conversion a must? At £2500ish you would be able to buy 550 gallons of petrol and do approximately 8250 miles on the conversion costs alone, so you would need to do some serious miles to recover the cost matey......
I don't know where abouts you are based or where the RV is located so cannot offer any more advice re getting it checked over but keep asking questions on here and you will get plenty of answers. Remember though, that as a non subscriber you only have 10 posts max and no-one can PM you, so you may consider that it is worth a tenner to keep getting help.
My final thought here is that if I had the room for another RV I would buy it at that price and refurbish it, again like with ours you will have just what you want (you will probably never find one that way on the market...) and you are in control of the spend, so go for it... But do get it looked over by a professional first........

Good luck 

Keith


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

BERTHA said:


> The question is, how easy is it to get parts, how fixable are they?
> If I invest in one of these should I want to sell it say in 12 months time will I get a good return on my investment?
> 
> Regards
> Hugh


Hi Hugh, investment 8O Stocks and shares, houses, rare paintings ect, can all be an investment, but an RV :roll: its a money pit :lol:

I spent £3500 on an LPG conversion. £1600 on insurance maybe £3000 on petrol/lpg I am waiting to spend £1500 on a sat tv system plus another £3000 on an inverter, new charger, solar panels ect. ect. (just waiting for the lotto) Its a money Pit.

Olley


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Olley


Why £1600 on insurance, that seems quite high mate

stew


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Thanks Olly

I think this steers us away from an RV

Hugh


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

Hi morgsrv. I agree with all the above. However, it is just as easy to make a European MH a "money pit" as with an RV. I spent about £5k on my Autocruise to get it just how I wanted it (tow bar, tweak engine, a-frame for car, safari room, upgrade suspension to increase payload, upgrade water pumps etc etc. Then we realized that it would never be what we wanted, which was an RV, especially for the lounging space and wak-round bed. And most of what we spend is "optional". When I ordered my Damon I fixed a budget, made a "wish list", and had this fitted pre-delivery, to avoid the post-delivery money pit described without going over budget. But of course you then find a new idea, or fancy toy that you feel you can't do without. So I think that most of this problem is one of self control! (which I sadly lack, having just ordered a new backup system with side cameras). Good luck in any case. Des.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

des said:


> So I think that most of this problem is one of self control! (which I sadly lack, having just ordered a new backup system with side cameras). Good luck in any case. Des.


"Lack of self control" Guilty as charged :lol:

I didn't need to spend all that money, but somethings you just gotta have.

As for insurance I should have used the no claims off our micra and then reinsured the micra with a new policy, but I didn't think of it until it was too late.  

Go for it morgsrv, RV's are great, and the toys you can buy for them. 8) I even bought a set of snow chains, why????? :?

Olley


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## damondunc (Feb 14, 2006)

*advice please*

Hi Morgsrv
Owning an RV is not cheap but it does'nt have to cost the earth either.
Regarding insurance,our renewal with Camptons (01883 742460) is just over £570,this is for a 1999 36' Damon Intruder valued @ about £60k ( for insurance purposes ).Camptons will not insure over £50k unless you go in with a lower value van , so if you have all the info for the RV give them a call and get an idea of cost.
you will probably be looking at your next RV before an Lpg conversion pay's for itself : :wink: :wink: 
The inside being tired is easy to sort, elbow grease and TLC will make a difference, if the upholstery is too awful, a few metres of fabric & a staple gun will sort pelmets,either get the sofa & chairs recovered or use throws.
NB; it can be more expensive to cover cab & recliners than buy new ones.
Run of the mill parts are not too pricy and readily available.
If in doubt get the RV checked out, GOOD LUCK Duncan


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## 99559 (Jun 6, 2006)

thanks for all the help, I've spoken today to the people who carried out the MOT and did the brakes. It seems that apart from the brakes not much else was wrong with it, other than what I already know, whihc is good news. Bad news was the LPG conversion is closer to £3500! from them anyway. They also suggested air bags on the front end would be a good idea to calm the body roll abit. they also said it has not had a service recently but the water heater has had the control panel replaced along with the air conditioner roof unit.
I was budgeting for around £750 for the insurance so that sounds about right. 
The good thing is that they are local (Roade, Northants) to me ( Brackley) so it wouldn't be to far to get things done. So its pushed the top line up abit so not sure if £20K would make it still viable,
look forward to anymore info
cheers 
Morgan


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Morgan
Both Olley and myself have dealt with the company in Roade (we live in Kettering) and I found they are not the cheapest guys to deal with, mixed feelings really, but I don't want to say anything out of turn, maybe I have been unlucky....
If you want to see what can be done to an older RV for reasonable money you are more than welcome to come over and see ours. Send me an email and we can sort it out mate (you can't send a PM)...

Anyway the advice would seem to be to go for it as at the price I cannot see you losing money but please do have second thoughts on the LPG conversion, wait for a while to decide, and the quote you have had is nowhere near the cheapest in town......

Good luck matey

Keith


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Oh stop it will you, that's it, the misses has decided we are going up to Dudleys this Saturday

Hugh


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Get an RV Hugh "You know it makes sense" :lol: its a man thing, we all have big ones, RV's I mean :lol: 

Olley


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Speak for yourself Olley... My RV is not that big :wink: :wink: :wink: , well not as big as Jims :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Good advice though, you only live once Hugh and there is nothing quite like piloting an RV down the road mate, great experience, luv it :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

You see, I have never driven one and, if I am really honest, we blew a lot on our new Burstner 747 so we can't afford a brand new RV and will have to rely on P/X.

So, if I do go for one its going to be 2nd hand and I have been looking at models, particularly the Winnebago Brave's that seem very clean with about 30,000 ish so if I have to spend a bloody lot fixing etc then I would rather stay with my nice 5 Year warranty on the Burstner.

However, we have used the Burstner much more than we thought we would and, the size is not a problem and my wife likes them big and also what the RV's have is comfortable lounging.

You know, since we purchased our motorhome at last Years NEC and then meeting some you mad lot and this bloody web site, we have debated everything from Water Filters, Sat TV, ECU chip and now RV's.

What is it, I always seem to want to change, modify add that something extra.
My old man reckons I have lost my marbles, he spent his time travelling around the UK in a small VW Devon with pop up roof with no water tank, no toilet, no hook up and when my mother made the beds we all at to stand outside.

And look at us now, shall we put in a nice water filter, shall we use LCD or Plasma, shall we buy a bloody big house on wheels call an RV - we are mad, damn well mad


Hugh


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

Hi Hugh. You have made the most important point - the depreciation is the biggest hit, so the more money you spend, the more you stand to lose if you get it wrong! So my advice is - continue doing your research until you have overwhelming evidence you are making the right decision. Your Burstner is not going to depreciate much (after the initial cost of driving it away from the dealer) so there's no hurry. We spent a year looking, looking again, and then some more before deciding. And believe we got it right (although would love to swap for a 12m Allegro Bus - but who wouldn't - if we had that sort of money). I would recommend making a list of "must have" items, and don't under any circumstances compromise on this. Then keep a written record of strengths & weaknesses of the RVs you see. All this to avoid making a snap decision which you might later regret. Sorry if this is all obvious stuff - I am great at giving this advice to others, but still get carried away and buy on impulse. Just can't afford to do it as the price gets towards 6 figures! Good luck, and happy hunting.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Hugh
I wouldn't worry overmuch about the "fixing" side of things mate...
By the sounds of it your van must have quite a value to it now so you will not be looking at the sort of RV's that we have been discussing here.
The lower the price of the vehicle the more (potentially) you will need to spend to replace the things that will go wrong or have worn out due to age + mileage.
If you type "american rv" into google and look at some of the dealers it throws up you will see a huge variety available for a huge variation in price. As Des has said, you need to establish how much money you want to throw at this, what layout, what engine / chassis etc and dont dither with minutia.... When you see the RV that ticks all your boxes you will know that it is the one for you, then haggle the price to one that you are comfortable with, and don't go over it.....
You will need to have it serviced like any other vehicle, so keep some cash spare for that, and shop around to get a price first (we paid about £2K for a full service and I think that was a little on the high side, so I will be looking for someone else to do the servicing from now on.
Take your time, good advice above, and get the one you want, it is out there.....

Good luck

Keith


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Kieth £2000 for a service 8O 8O they charged me £500 last year while they were doing the gas con. did it myself this year. 5L of oil, oil filter and grease up, you would need to add fuel filters.

You had an awning party, what about a servicing party :lol: 

Olley


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Olley
yes I think the big neon sign on my forehead is starting to wear off mate :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Shall not make that mistake again :roll: :roll: 
Servicing party hmmmmm sounds like a good idea :lol: :lol: :lol: I just hope that it was the only mistake I will make with it, and that did include the time for them to diagnose the leaking power booster :roll: and the leaking steering box :roll: :roll: , must have been hard to find eh???

Never mind we all live and learn, and you can't take it with you........

Keith


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Hi there, some very good points made.

We have our eye on a layout that we saw in Newbury, it was in a 32ft Brave.

It does not seem, from what some of you say, a lot of difference in he service, Insurance area to what one would pay for my Burstner and I only get around 19mpg so not a great deal more.

I heard somewhere, that the big diesel engines found in some of these RV's are no more or give worse fuel consumption than some of the petrol units (V10) is this true.

There is a Brave in Dudleys that has LPG tanks fitted under the rear bed, what sort of milage can one expect per Ltr/Gal of LPG>

Questions, questions, questions

Many thanks
Hugh


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Hugh

You mention 32 foot, maybe the RV boys will put me right but I get the feeling that campsite owners seem to have a magical 29/30 foot as being the biggest they want to take. 

We have a 28 foot Euromobil and have no problems at all gettng onto even the smallest sites but at 32 foot you might

stew


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

We are just under 35 feet long, and have not had many problems with campsites (yet). Very often restrictions are based on access roads, which may be too narrow, or have weight restrictions. Couldn't get into a site in Malvern (pitches too short, and access restricted) but found CC and C&CC only a mile or so away, and failed to book one in Beaune, who take nothing over about 24 feet. I suggest you choose what you really want, and worry about sites later. Plenty about!


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Good point Des, we find that actually getting onto the site is usually more of a pain than actually getting onto the pitch.....
Why do campsite owners always plant dirty great big trees with branches at about 10 feet above the ground around the entrances??? I have found this on a number of sites and it ticks me off listening to all the foliage scraping along the roof and sides at about 2 MPH whilst getting into their site. If any campsite owners are viewing, please, please, please trim the damn trees back :lol: :lol: 

Hugh, we have a 6.5 litre Chevy Turbo Diesel, autobox etc and weigh around 7 tons, and we get about 14-16 MPG, this does of course depend on how you drive, but driving an RV at 90 is not much fun :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keith


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

I have the 8.1l Chevy Vortek (petrol/lpg). Get between 7 & 8 mpg on propane, paying 40p per litre usually. On a new vehicle, the petrol engine / lpg conversion is usually cheaper than the diesel engine. My personal view is that diesel is fine on a pusher, but when you are sitting right on top of it at the front, petrol is much kinder to the ears. Also, I have found that diesel thrum tends to send me to sleep. Strongly recommend you try to ride in both (have not driven a diesel, so only offering opinion on the noise, not fact). As far as running costs go, the Vortek engine only required oil & filter changes for the first 100,000 miles! that's supposed to include the spark plugs!


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi hugh glad to hear your still keen, regarding diesel and Petrol MPG I get about 10 I believe jim in his GMB which is a similar weight to mine (8.5 tonnes) gets 14-15mpg. The big monaco's do a lot less but then they have bigger engines and weigh over 15 odd tonnes.

I get about 220-250 miles out of 165litres of LPG so thats about 1.3-1.5 miles per litre. (I really ought to do a proper test) which puts me on a par with diesel. At the statford show Autogas was 38p. per litre. which is the cheapest I have bought. My own feeling is that overall it will cost you about a third less than petrol.

We haven't found it a problem with campsites, some will not take RV's but the majority do. Their are always loads of plus 36's at the shows in the ARVE and ARV sections, many fulltiming, they must go somewhere after the shows finish.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Hugh 
I concur with Olley on fuel consumption, as far as size goes .. Keith hit the nail on the head, it's not pitch size but access that can be tight, at 36 ft ours hasn't been stuck yet.. caught a fair share of trees and bushes :twisted: but nothing that T cut wont remove 8) and not having plastic windows is a big plus.. they don't get scratched.. 
Obviously you need to do a little forward planning and check site access before turning down a narrow farm track, we were caught once but eventually I reversed into a field to get turned .. farm gates are usually wide enough for large tractors, combines etc so no worries. 
Rule of thumb, if there is a local bus service.. must be ok for an RV ... 

Weight restrictions are another potential problem, some small villages in France have 3.5 or 7.5 ton limits.... all fun when it's too late to turn around  
Go for it mate, if you love driving your 5 ton Burstner, an RV won't be a problem. 
PS .. CC wardens just love you when you run a double wheel accross a nice grassy corner .. :lol:


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## 99559 (Jun 6, 2006)

Well it looks like you're sold Hugh! 

Went out in the Fleetwood again last night just around and about to check out a few more things. What I really noticed was how it shrunk after the first 15 mins, it seems getting it off the drive and on ot the A43 is going to be the worst bit. Do you guys plan where you're going to avoid narrow roads or is it familiarity - thinking from where we are I should be able to go most places easily (limited experience) except some parts of wales.

Keith - when/ if I do the deed would love to see what you've done.

Agree with the LPG conversion I think the way forward would be to get the aestetics done first and get the wife on side (kids are scraping pocket money together) and then do the LPG which will make no difference to her enjoyment of it. 

PS it desparatley needs the exhaust gaskets changing anyone attempted this or know about it?

cheers
Morgan


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

morgsrv said:


> What I really noticed was how it shrunk after the first 15 mins,


That was the exact phrase the sales guy used when we were debating about buying George, they not only shrink as you drive, they shrink more when your living in them, he never mentioned a shrinking wallet tho .. 
and oddly, they expand when you start to wax them :roll: 8O..


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi morgsrv if you post on jims site, I believe Fordy the site mod. has done his gaskets.

olley


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

olley said:


> Hi morgsrv if you post on jims site, I believe Fordy the site mod. has done his gaskets.
> 
> olley


Hi morgsrv
Olley is correct, try www.rvfulltiming.com :wink:


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## 88792 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Olley, I have sent you a pm re rv insurance, sorry to go OT


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Mikesha, I haven't recieved one yet?

Olley


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