# Am I just "unlucky"?



## 117481 (Oct 15, 2008)

I bought a brand new camper van earlier this year, on the basis that I was going to rent it out through Motorholme so that it eventually pays for itself!

First rental was great - older couple who were caravaners looking to switch to a camper van, and they looked after the van as if it were their own.

Second renter, who only had it for a weekend, pranged it. The "deal" with Motorholme is that their insurance policy has an excess of £1250 - which they don't take as a deposit - but will take it from the renters credit card in the event of damage. The repair cost is circa £1,100 and they have been unable to get the money from the renter. Credit card was refused - so I guess it either exceeded her limit - or she cancelled it. Probably the latter as she is still not forthcoming with the money. My van is at the garage waiting to be repaired, they won't start work until they get the go-ahead from Motorholme, and Motorholme won't give the go-ahead until they've got the money from the renter.…..

I've had to turn down a potential renter next week because the van is not available - so "loss of earnings" - which is not taken into account. So all in all the experience has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Motorholme have told me that I'm just very unlucky that they were unable to take the money from the renters' credit card, and being inconvenienced by all of this, and that in most cases where there has been damage, they don't have such problems.

I'm therefore wondering….

1)	From any experience you have had with renting out your motorhome - am I just "unlucky", or are situations like this fairly common place when renting out?
2)	Can anyone recommend an alternative company to rent through? Perhaps one who actually takes the deposit from the hirer in advance? 
Many thanks


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well, theres been gazillions of threads saying " dont hire it out" 

You have just found out the biggest pitfall of renting........or one of them anyway.

The only thing you have as an option now, is suck it up and take the hit, have it repaired, then, learning from this problem, go find yourself an insurance company which will insure your vehicle, explain the situation, then, pay for the fully comp, business use, no excess premiums yourself.

Its the only way,

realistically, the company which did the bookings for you, act a an agent, they will have term and conditions which will have stated exactly the system they apply, including taking deposits etc.

You'll have a loss this time, but next time you'll be prepared. It really is a case of doing the thing proper like, take no chances, you really cant do it on the cheap.

Incidentally, my Rv, for the full monty business for hire etc...( with it being drop and pick up, i.e. nobody other than my employees drive it) Including third party liability, cost me jut under £ 3000 per year.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

I don't have any experience of hiring or hiring out a motorhome but I do have considerable experience of chartering boats. In almost every case a hefty deposit or 100% damage insurance premium has been taken BEFORE I was allowed on board the boat. Anyone who hires to the general public without 100% cover is taking a terrible risk. 

I have on one occasion been asked to sign a Visa slip for around £2000 before taking over the boat. This was returned to me when I returned the boat (undamaged). Since the slip was signed in advance I would have been responsible for the payment to VISA even if I cancelled the card and the payment was subject to clearance by phone at the time of signing. In addition to this 'deposit' I had to sign a waiver to protect the hire company for any damage I might do to the French canal system. 
All the above serves to concentrate the mind and contributes to you taking even more care of someone elses property. 
It also demonstrates that a pprofessional hire organisation covers every eventuality before turning you loose with their property. 

We were still asked to pay a few Euros for a couple of broken wine glasses and a broken chair - the breaks were were not unrelated!! 

I suspect that the possible returns from casual hire (as opposed to hard sell constant hire for the short season available ) are marginal and will never cover the cost of wear and tear to ones van. 

We chose to buy an older van rather than try to fund a new van by hiring.


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## WSandME (May 16, 2007)

I'm surprised that Motorholme couldn't get funds from the credit card - from previous experience I understand that "cancelling" a credit card does NOT absolve the holder from commitments made before the cancellation - look up things such as "continuous mandate".

Further, the credit card company would still pay even if the account was over limit - the problem would be the card holder's - he would be liable for charges &c, but would still be liable for the amount.

The crux is that when the customer signed the mandate for the "deposit", the transaction wasn't denied - if it had been, the rental would not have progressed. If the transaction was "chip & pin" - the risk is down to the credit card company, if it was "signed slip", the risk is down to the people who accepted the transaction without checking with the credit card company that the account was good for the transaction.

"_which they don't take as a deposit - but will take it from the renters credit card in the event of damage._"
Do you mean Motorholme didn't make the renter sign a credit card transaction covering the possible excess? In which case I would think Motorholme would be liable - it was their risk.

As it happens, I am currently in dispute with a car rental firm which has taken a charge (>£700) for a slipping clutch which was faulty when I picked up the car. There is no way I could avoid having the money taken from my card, even if I had been over limit, or had cancelled the card - I'll just have to fight to get my money back.

Caveat; I am not a lawyer.


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

>> Am I just "unlucky"?

That says it all. Luck does not come into it.

Look at the small print in your agreement and see if you can hold them responsible.


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## 117481 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for this - and good luck with getting your money back. Yes you are correct - Motorholme do not actually take the deposit in advance. Their contract does explain to renters (and they have to sign to say they agree) that any damage up to £1250 will be debited from their card. Furthermore, I have additional insurance paperwork that they have to sign confirming this before they drive away. The numpty that pranged my van clearly didn't have sufficient brain cells that connected to make her aware of this...until after she pranged it.....


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## 117481 (Oct 15, 2008)

aultymer said:


> I don't have any experience of hiring or hiring out a motorhome but I do have considerable experience of chartering boats. In almost every case a hefty deposit or 100% damage insurance premium has been taken BEFORE I was allowed on board the boat. Anyone who hires to the general public without 100% cover is taking a terrible risk.
> 
> I have on one occasion been asked to sign a Visa slip for around £2000 before taking over the boat. This was returned to me when I returned the boat (undamaged). Since the slip was signed in advance I would have been responsible for the payment to VISA even if I cancelled the card and the payment was subject to clearance by phone at the time of signing. In addition to this 'deposit' I had to sign a waiver to protect the hire company for any damage I might do to the French canal system.
> All the above serves to concentrate the mind and contributes to you taking even more care of someone elses property.
> ...


Thanks for this - I didn't buy the van to hire it out - but thought that it would be a good way to recoup some of the money - especially with the credit crunch looming. Was also preapred for some minor damage, and obviusy the one thing I quizzed Motorholme about ad nauseum before agreeing to rent it out - was what happens when something is damaged. They managed to convince me that should something like that happen, they had procedures in place to handle it. What they didn't tell me was that these procedures take AGES, and even said to me today in e-mail when I chased them from an update - (4 weeks after the prang) - "Please afford me the time follow our Company Procedure ". Grrrrrrr.......


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## WSandME (May 16, 2007)

I've just started the dispute procedure with my credit card company - they replied stating that this could take 180 days!!!
:~(


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi we were in Spain in Jan / Feb and a hired van came in the site, he had hit a tree on another site and made a hole in the side big enough to put your head through, the site we were on had loads of trees, it was so bad I backed out the way I came in, the hire van was having trouble getting in the site, we saw him in, and saw him out or there would have been more damage, but he was not that bothered because he had lost his £500 deposit, he had never drove anything bigger than a car and lived in a narrow boat. Another one ran over someones 1.2 satellite dish, not a good site. No way would I consider renting a camper out. Bob.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> What they didn't tell me was that these procedures take AGES, and even said to me today in e-mail when I chased them from an update - (4 weeks after the prang) - "Please afford me the time follow our Company Procedure ". Grrrrrrr.......


Get some legal help! Their procedures may take years and you have no control over that.
Point out that you are holding THEM responsible for your loss of use for hire or personal use. I suspect you won't be using such an incompetent bunch again but don't tell them that until you get settlement in full!!

Good luck.


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## LondonMotorhomeHire (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Ranulph,

I felt compelled to add to your thread due to the fact that I've experienced pretty much all that you have and learned a lot along the way, but I don't really know where to start.

Firstly, about Motorholme. I was registered with them for the most part of the season this year but have recently withdrawn my membership. Not entirely a reflection on them but I've decided to manage my own hire-affairs. Do I not recall that when they did their heavy-sell on me as an owner, they claim that they accept all responsibility for chasing desputes. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that they would pay up first and then pursue their loss from the hirer.
I had a similar situation with Hirebuddies, in fact, two. One cheque was with me within 10 days without any questions once photos and the signed handing over sheet had been sent to them and they continued the fight with the hirer. On the second occasion, the damage was more costly and they wriggled and argued that it was up to me to take the hirer to court as the hirer would not agree for the deposit funds to be given to me. 
I simply stood my ground and insisted that regardless of the excess amount, the accident occured on a public road and as such, should be referred to the insurer for the matter to be settled. Soon afterwards, the cheque was in my hands.
Moral of the story is that these agencies like to oversell their services and then withdraw to a position of 'letting agent' when things go wrong.

I now advertise my own two vans and handle all administration of the hires myself. I have taken out commercial self-drive hire insurance and the deposit is always taken in cleared funds before the vehicle is issued.
I am even being approached by owners who wish that I act as an agent on their behalf and even 'foster' their van in London, where demand is higher than anywhere else in the country.

Being registered with the commonly-known agencies is a great way to cover your running costs and I've been at least delighted with one of them, struggling to meet demand, leading to us buying a second MH in the past month. 
It is vital that any owner considering this move must ensure they do not fall victim of 'double-glazing-salesmen' types and ask pertinant questions about who is responsible for what when when hick-ups occur. If possible, do this via email and try to get a written undertaking in reply.

And finally.....only do this if you are the type who could purchase a flat on a buy-to-let scheme undertanding that any Tom, Dick or Harriet might sleep in it and that virtually anything and everything might get damaged. A sensible view is that 100% of a MH can be repaired or replaced. The essential point here is that the hirer, or the insurer should be the one to cover the costs, not you.

Good Luck.


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## 117481 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hi Tugg66,

Many thanks for your reply, and apologies for the delay in responding - I've tried to put the whole thing out of my mind! It is of course not settled yet, the renter hasn't paid up, Motorholme claim to have passed it to their loss adjusters for recovery of the money, and when I asked how long this would take, the response was "When the hirer is disputing the charge, as in this instance, there is no way of determining how long this process could take I'm afraid." and that was it!

Yes - their "heavy sell" was done by a very pleasant, unassuming salesman - not the brash "double glazing type" and he was overflowing with how they put the hirer first, how they deal with any damage quickly, because, as I was told "if we don't have hirers on our books - then we don't have a business - so obviously we're going to look after our hirers" - yeah!!!! if this is looking after a hirer I dread to think what "not looking after a hirerer" would look like.

I was fanatical about asking all the right questions and they were able to give me very plausible answers to them all. It just turns out in reality that they either were not being 100% truthful, or now bending the rules to suit. 

Yes - perhaps I was a little naive when I entered into the rental arena - but I guess I believed that most people - especially when there is a £1250 excess, would treat my van with kid gloves. I was also lulled into a false sense of security after the first rental where the people cleaned the van so that it looked like new, and even gave me a list of suggestions on things I could do to enhance it (they were life long caravanners - and totally fell in love with Ranulph).

Yes - Motorholme do claim that they accept all responsibility for chasing disputes - and are now effectively telling me not to pester them as they "have their process". What they didn't tell me is the time line is as long as a piece of string!

So - I will nag on and fight on - but hopefully give a clear message to those who are just entering the rental arena, to steer well clear of Motorholme - unless they have the luxury of time and money whilst their pranged campervan sits at a repair shop for month, after month.....

Many thanks again for your reply and sharing your experiences with me.

Regards

Susan


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## 117481 (Oct 15, 2008)

*All's well that ends well!*

Many thanks to those of you who took the time to respond to my initial message, either on this site or privately, and I am pleased to let you all know that Motorholme today gave the go-ahead for the repairs, so I'll soon have Ranulph back home again! Yippee - can't wait to see him. All's well that ends well.....


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Pleased to hear your news - you must be very happy.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Perhaps they read your post on this site and thought better of it!


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

Result Ranulph, well nearly anyway. Persistance and good advice from people on this site pays off.

Hope the repair is effected quickly and efficiently.


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## Rainbow-Chasers (Sep 2, 2008)

Glad to hear you have it sorted at last! Deposits are a tricky subject - for that exact reason, we always make sure that we have the deposit in full when they hire. Having a cheque/credit card number is no good if they do not have the funds to honour it.

If anyone does hire out through a company of any kind (and everyone seems to be having a go!) make sure of what proceadures they use, and make sure you have a solid understanding of them. Also make sure that they actually take the money from them, or a bankers guarantee of funds available such as a draft supported by letter. Sounds like alot of work, but puts you in a safer position should anything go wrong.


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## Janecayman (Apr 7, 2017)

LondonMotorhomeHire said:


> Hi Ranulph,
> 
> I felt compelled to add to your thread due to the fact that I've experienced pretty much all that you have and learned a lot along the way, but I don't really know where to start.
> 
> ...


Hi - do you do the fostering service? Also who do you get insurance through ? Thanks


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

The initial post was 8 years ago!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

chasper said:


> The initial post was 8 years ago!


and it looks as if most of the posters are no longer members.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

JanHank said:


> and it looks as if most of the posters are no longer members.


To me that was the most interesting thing...

Where do all these people go. Some of them had over 2000 posts...

Graham :serious:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GMJ said:


> To me that was the most interesting thing...
> 
> Where do all these people go. Some of them had over 2000 posts...
> 
> Graham :serious:


It was started in 2008, maybe some have died or too old o drive a Motorhome anymore who knows.
Jan


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