# High visibility jackets



## billb (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi All,
I read somewhere recently that the law has changed in France 
regarding high vis vests.It says that you must have a Jacket as apposed to a vest from July 2008.with a fine of 135euro for not carrying one each.
Can anyone shed some light on this please because we are of to France in April


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Oh dear we are also off to France in April and only have the sleeveless type.
:roll: :roll: 
cabby


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Well if it's true there'll be a lot of MHFers out shopping for jackets and a lot of high viz vests coming up on Ebay.


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

*Jackets vis a vis Vests*

Although the term jacket is being used, I think the garment is the same as the vest we know and love.

See link http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/05/warning-triangl.html

Sal


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## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

The Jacket/Vest has to comply with the current EU regulations. The jackets and vests on sale in Halfords etc. do comply with these reuglations so just _*get a cheap one for each occupant of the vehicle *_from there.

Note it is the positioning of the reflective strips on the Jacket/Vest which is important.

If you break down, anyone who exits the vehicle *must* be wearing a jacket/vest.

On Autoroutes, if you breakdown everyone is expected to leave the vehicle and stand in a safe area off the carriageway. In France there is some debate as to whether you should deploy the warning triangle on an Autoroute as doing so is extremely dangerous and is more likely to result in an accident.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have emailed the Caravan Club for an answer. :roll: :roll: hopefully we will get one before we go away.

cabby


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## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

cabby said:


> I have emailed the Caravan Club for an answer. :roll: :roll: hopefully we will get one before we go away.
> 
> cabby


I like a man with faith in the system  

If your Jacket/Vest conforms to the latest EU specifications then you can use them in France.

My Vest is orange, not yellow, but because the reflective strips are of the correct size, shape and in the correct position it is legal.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Something else that the document cited above says:

_ Also from September 1 [2008] cyclists will be required to wear high visibility jackets when outside towns, as well as during the night or when visibility is poor._

G


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

The following is the latest standard.BS EN 471:2003. 
looking at pictures of vests/jackets they all have 2 silver bands horizontal and the 2 vertical bands one either side of the chest and back.they may be vests or jackets providing they are of the approved code.

cabby


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> The following is the latest standard.BS EN 471:2003.
> looking at pictures of vests/jackets they all have 2 silver bands horizontal and the 2 vertical bands one either side of the chest and back.they may be vests or jackets providing they are of the approved code.
> 
> cabby


We bought ours last year from here:
http://www.hivis.net/c5/Hi-Vis-Vests
Current price £1.45+VAT

The cheapest Halfords version seems to be £3.99
Although we had to pay postage that was shared between 4 as we bought enough for the maximum number of people that can now legally travel in out mh.


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Good point Gillian. We have our two vests always in the MH, but when we take our friends (rarely, but sometimes) we must remember to buy a couple more before we go.

Thanks for the point.

Sue


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## 116882 (Sep 23, 2008)

here is a link to the hi viz spec
http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/05/warning-triangl.html
and cyclists are required to wear one now as well.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

there must have been a great deal of hi vis bought in france this year.

What about coach and train passengers

Dave P


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

not only france 
check out the other countries see here
chapter


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

When we were in France last autumn we wondered why every supermarket had high vis jackets on sale - even in out of the way places they were all selling them!

We knew we had to have them for the MH, and have carried three for years - although there are only two of us. We have also had two warning triangles both of which are required for Spain - we took the Plymouth / Santander ferry three years ago and read then that Spain requires two, France only one triangle.

Have never checked the position of the reflective strips but they _*should*_ because they were described as Class A - suitable for all uses in UK which means they are supposed to comply with European requirements.

Footnote;

Ours are OK, they comply, also found this link to the French Embassy web site in London - that should be fairly definitive!

http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Driving-in-France-New-legal.html


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Grizzly and others. What the regulations pertaining to cyclists say is that jackets must be worn when cycling outside built up areas at night or in the event of poor visibility. There is no obligation to wear them at other times during the day.


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## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

pomme1 said:


> Grizzly and others. What the regulations pertaining to cyclists say is that jackets must be worn when cycling outside built up areas at night or in the event of poor visibility. There is no obligation to wear them at other times during the day.


Why not just get into the habit of wearing them always when on your bike.


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## billb (Dec 27, 2007)

I think Penquin,s link solves the issue,seems a vest with relevant stripes on is ok.


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## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

Can be either Yellow or Orange, but the label must clearly state:
EN471, class 2.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

pomme1 said:


> Grizzly and others. What the regulations pertaining to cyclists say is that jackets must be worn when cycling outside built up areas at night or in the event of poor visibility. There is no obligation to wear them at other times during the day.


A repeat of the passage I've quoted twice today on this forum and which comes from the French regulations - though not my translation:

_Also from September 1 [2008] cyclists will be required to wear high visibility jackets when outside towns, as well as during the night or when visibility is poor._

Note the comma after the word towns. My reading of this is that Jackets are to be worn when cycling outside towns and also to be worn during the night and when visibility is poor.

Frankly I'd rather be seen and so wear the jacket or fluorescent Sam Browne even if no policeman is around.

G


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## callie (Oct 18, 2007)

zzzz ,,hi-viz jackets then wot, arm pads, knee pads, helmets,we`ll be wearing cotton wool siuts next ,wear this wear that dont do this dont do that ,cant park hear park there,tooooooooooo many numptys telling us wot 2 do and wot not 2 do,it will be 2 dangerous 2 leave the house soon..................................................


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

callie said:


> zzzz ,,hi-viz jackets then wot, arm pads, knee pads, helmets,we`ll be wearing cotton wool siuts next ,wear this wear that dont do this dont do that ,cant park hear park there,tooooooooooo many numptys telling us wot 2 do and wot not 2 do,it will be 2 dangerous 2 leave the house soon..................................................


Oh I agree entirely. In fact, I'd suggest all cyclist do as many seem to do and go out at night without lights as well.

Actually no, perhaps not. I'm sure, if I couldn't see the cyclist, I'd be in the clear if I killed him but really, it makes such a mess of the car and valetting services are so expensive these days.

G


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

Having just had a blowout on the Ballymena to Larne link road - I think I shall be carrying them and using them over here as well 8O 8O 8O


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Bit like insurance really - hopefully you will never need it or a policeman ask for evidence of having it. However if you don't have it and need it then you will inevitably regret it as will all others involved.


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

> Grizzly and others. What the regulations pertaining to cyclists say is that jackets must be worn when cycling outside built up areas at night or in the event of poor visibility. There is no obligation to wear them at other times during the day.


I think you are correct pomme1. The requirement for jackets is only at night or in poor visibility, not all the time.

If you read further down the original post the translation is questioned on this point.

Trevor


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

trevorf said:


> > Grizzly and others. What the regulations pertaining to cyclists say is that jackets must be worn when cycling outside built up areas at night or in the event of poor visibility. There is no obligation to wear them at other times during the day.
> 
> 
> I think you are correct pomme1. The requirement for jackets is only at night or in poor visibility, not all the time.
> ...





> See the link I posted in my post of yesterday morning: http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/05/warning-triangl.html
> 
> 5th para down in article reads _"Also from September 1 cyclists will be required to wear high visibility jackets when outside towns, as well as during the night or when visibility is poor."_ Is then incorrect?
> 
> ...


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## bradleypark (Dec 31, 2007)

You might find this site useful. It answers the question re hi vi VESTS. Also note the line about a warning triangle.
Bon journee!


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

bradleypark said:


> You might find this site useful. It answers the question re hi vi VESTS. Also note the line about a warning triangle.
> Bon journee!





> Which site would that be then?
> 
> Sal


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

This is the bit I read from the link

[/quote]

The sentence in French:
Obligation pour tout cycliste circulant hors agglomération, de nuit ou de jour si visibilité mauvaise , de porter un gilet
rétro-réfléchissant à partir du 1er septembre 2008."

might mean wear a vest outside of towns at night or when visibility is poor.
You wrote outside of towns and at night and when visibility is poor.

I think there is a real difference.


> I think there is a translation problem here. Any fluent French speakers around - please clarify.
> 
> Trevor


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## bradleypark (Dec 31, 2007)

Ooops!!!!!
http://driving.drive-alive.co.uk/driving-in-france.htm
Too much of the 'red' french liquid lst night, brain still recovering!

Ken


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

Any one in France just now noticed if all the cyclist are wearing hi viz jackets??


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

I am now so intrigued I have just phoned my son who lives in Barcelona with his French girlfriend. I thought she may have the answer but unfortunately, she is out for the evening. Aaggh!

How sad am I? I must get out more!

Sal


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

To throw something else into the mix. Were you aware of these regulations that concern cycling in other European countries ?

ERSO regulations

G


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Although not a fluent French speaker, I am absolutely certain that my translation and hence interpretation of the rules is correct. I was at the Semaine Federale de Cyclotourisme in France last year and spent some time on the stand of the FFCT, the French cycling organisation for non-competitive cycling. I discussed the matter with their offficials and they went through the rules with me.
You will not be required to wear such vests during normal daylight hours, although if it makes you comfortable to do so then by all means do.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

pomme1 said:


> Although not a fluent French speaker, I am absolutely certain that my translation and hence interpretation of the rules is correct. .


Thank you for that. It's a shame that the other translations are so ambiguous. What a difference a comma makes! I imagine it will cause a lot of confusion with Brits who read about it on the various websites. So long as the French gendarme have the correct version anyway !

G


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

One interesting question that someone *MIGHT* know the answer to......

If we take a British registered vehicle to France or other European country I believe we are allowed to use that vehicle because it complies with UK registration details. Hence we do not have to comply with French regs. This is the basis on which we can use A frames, I believe. (_No I am not trying to hijack this thread for further consideration of their legality or otherwise_). But vehicles registered in France cannot use them. End of that point!

So do vehicles registered in UK *have to have *high vis jackets since they are not required in UK, and do UK cyclists have to wear them for the same reason? One thought I have is that bikes are not "registered" as such so we could not demonstrate that we comply with UK registrations.

I believe that carrying such jackets and wearing them is an aid to individual road safety but, *playing devil's advocate *I am just throwing that question out to the forum in case anyone has a definitive answer.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Penquin said:


> same reason? One thought I have is that bikes are not "registered" as such so we could not demonstrate that we comply with UK registrations.
> .


Have you read the ERSO regulations that I quoted above Penguin ? It appears that the Vienna convention comes into cycling as well as everything else ! It makes quite entertaining reading and much of it came as news to me anyway.

G


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

Our daughter is a fluent French speaker with a degree in French and Italian and she works as a secondary school teacher. I have emailed her requesting a translation, but it is half term, so may not get a reply until tomorrow. Watch this space........

Oh, and next question. We are taking our 20 month-old grandson to France in May in our car. Do we need to get him his own jacket, and if so where can we find one?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks for that Grizzly, yes, I have read them and they make good bed-time reading for insomniacs! They appear to have lots of "get-out clauses" or "get-in causes" which may or may not apply in this or that country.

But they don't mention high vis jackets anywhere that I could see, merely helmets and the need to have brakes, lights and possibly mudguard as appropriate, and that carrying a passenger is not allowed unless they are under a certain age in certain countries and so on. Wonder where that leaves tandems? No don't go there!

They are about as much use as a chocolate teapot IMHO! I wonder whether the Paramedics in York and London that use bikes with audible warning devices would fit into those regs? Presumably there is a get-out clause for emergency vehicles since bikes are now offically vehicles!

Thanks for your advice though! Isn't life fun? Aren't bureaucrats and Eurocrats fantastic - no wonder most countries only take note of the ones they want to!


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Can't wait for next years Tour de France, how will we know who's got the yellow jersey under their high viz jacket.................


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## welshtust (Jun 9, 2008)

MrsW said:


> Oh, and next question. We are taking our 20 month-old grandson to France in May in our car. Do we need to get him his own jacket, and if so where can we find one?


Halford's Sell children's hi viz, £1 best to have one just in case.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

pete4x4 said:


> Can't wait for next years Tour de France, how will we know who's got the yellow jersey under their high viz jacket.................


Nice one Pete !

  

G


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

The answer came to me in the night. Brilliant strategy. It is all designed to throw the Brits a curve ball! The moveable comma.... it all depends on your perspective! The French gendarme enforcing the rules -as he interprets them - or the Brit tourist blissfully unaware of the pitfall right in front of his front wheel! A touch of "Does your dog bite?". Come on guys, keep up with the plot!

I think the novel _'A Year in the Merde'_ explains it all.

I am going now for a strong cup of coffee!

Sal


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

My French is far from perfect but I would interpret this as follows.



> Obligation pour tout cycliste circulant hors agglomeration


"An obligation on all cyclists who ride outside a built up area"



> de nuit ou de jour si visibilite mauvaise


"at night or in daytime when visibility is poor"



> de porter un gilet retro-reflechissant a partir du 1er septembre 2008.


"To wear (carry) a reflective waistcoat commencing from 1st September 2008"

So, not required just because you are outside a built up area, but only if you're are outside a built up area at night, OR during the day and the visibilty is poor.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I think, mon Colonel, you've just added a third translation to the mix !

Perhaps we'd better offer the services of the British government bills drafting office to our friends across the channel.

They might not get it all in one sentence but I bet, by the time you'd finished reading it all, you'd be cast iron clear about the meaning.

G


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

Translation for the sentence we have been chewing over in the last couple of days:

Obligation for all cyclists outside of built-up areas, either day or night, to wear a hi-vis jacket IN THE CASE OF POOR VISIBILITY from the 1st September 2008.

I hope this is helpful to us all. I guess it will always be poor visibility at night, but clearly this might not be the case in france!


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## rebbyvid (Apr 10, 2006)

autostratus said:


> cabby said:
> 
> 
> > The following is the latest standard.BS EN 471:2003.
> ...


Can recommend them myself ,small family run firm and your keeping my daughter and son -in -law in work
Rob


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

rebbyvid said:


> autostratus said:
> 
> 
> > cabby said:
> ...


No doubt you'll be pleased to know that the service was first class.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

So we will all jolly along and spend a few quid on these valuable extras hopeing that we never need them . Just like we pay insurances.

I recently saw a picture of gendarmes attending scene of crash.
Every one but the gendarmes were wearing high vis vests.

Dave p


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Not the photo i was refering to in my previous reply.

British police person asking french police person where his hi vis vest is.


Put it as my avatar because i did not know how to attach photo

We brits play by the rules.....


Dave P


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