# Black and Grey



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Why do the manufacturers not fit Black and Grey holding tanks on more motorhomes, apart from the cost, surely it could be an optional extra.We would be able to be even more self sufficient.

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Simples Philip mate, at some point you have to empty the black (I thought we all had gray anyway though) and although we are not users of site any we have seen only have a small loo size type arrangemnt for emptying cassette into, I'm sure some site have a dump (sorry) point you can back over to let it all out (sorry again) but it'll be a cost thing also I think it's mainly the US RVs which need this facility and they do not use the smaller sites for obvious reasons.

I do hope that that answers you sufficiently


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

Most of the big German units have black tanks. But they need to be big ! A 300 ltre+ black tank will be heavy ( and when fulll...?) so it just isnt feasible on a 3.5t van. I think emptying would be a problem in France as their standard is cassette ( which is why we chose it). Stellplatz are no problem as they cater for them. Sostas are OK too but as you just tip your black into the grey then they can be fairly gruesome when the wash away is a bit iffy or there are too many solids....
Currently at Sirmione. We just emptyed our grey. If it had been black then I dread to think what a mess it would be !


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Some manufacturers do (or used to) fit black waste tanks but few offer them these days because in Europe there are very limited facilities for emptying them so not popular.

ISTR they're often described as "marine" toilets?

I'm sure that Thetford make a version of the standard loo that pumps into a black storage tank via an electric pump but can't find the details ATM.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

A 300lt black tank would last for months. 100lt is sufficient for ten days/two weeks for two of us. We can shoot it into a dump point or pump it into anywhere a cassette can be emptied.

We've never had any problem finding somewhere to empty it and for us it's a lot more convenient than using cassettes.


Edit: We can pump it up to 100 yards through an ordinary garden hose, though a one inch hose is a lot faster and better, we carry 30 yards of that and it's always been more than enough. Currently we're pumping it down a toilet in a nearby apartment every 10 days, if we run a little water into the toilet along with the black there's practically no smell. It can be done in a couple of minutes.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I remember some of the older Italian vans (Laika) had a marine loo set up. Basically a Thetford loo with a black tank below which also had a bayonet type fitting on the base which accepted a cassette so if you couldn't find a proper black drop point you could transfer some into the cassette and carry to the service point. Maybe the best of both worlds?


Pete


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Then of course theres the 'Aqualizer', a device invented by German converters HRZ which was like a mini treatment system that ground down all black and grey waste and treated it so it could all be released into one tank as normal grey water but don't think that caught on, probably because of the €2000+ price tag..

http://www.hrz-reisemobile.de/pages/startseite/aqualizer.php

http://www.hrz-reisemobile.de/pages/startseite/aqualizer.php










Pete


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

RVs pump it through a macerator which chops it up very fine. It come out of the hose as a liquid and smells no worse that the grey always did and does.

It could all be in one tank, or both can be released for pumping at the same time. We don't do that though as the grey is used to rinse the black away. The grey looks cleaner even if it does smell much the same.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We used an RV in Florida where such things are normal and even there it was not so easy to empty them and the method was more complex than may be realised;

1. slide out large diameter hose from storage position (it is not VERY flexible as about 5" diameter),
2 connect to RV and then to suitable emptying point if available or just into hole if that is the only facility,
3 open black waste tank and allow to empty completely,
4 then move the slide valve so that the some of the grey water empties through the same hose,
5. close the slide valve to stop the emptying, 
6. flush through both toilets (if two fitted),
7. repeat steps 3 and then 4 to ensure cleaned through all tubes, ensure black and then grey water tanks are fully emptied,
8. close slide valve, disconnect hose and empty hose, restow in protected tube under RV.
9. Fill with fresh water if not connected to "town" supply where the fresh water is topped up automatically and cuts off when full.

Then you have completed the task..... but you also use quite a lot of water to ensure tubes not contaminated with black waste......

To me, keeping the two systems separate is beneficial - particularly with the pronounced deficit of such facilities throughout Europe and the increase of fresh water needed to complete the task - apparently not a problem in the State Parks of the US bit certainly a problem in many parts of Europe where the cost of the water is much higher.

Would you want to go through that palaver after a one night trip, or even a weekend away? I don't think I would be keen although it looks a much less arduous task than emptying the cassette......

Stick in the mud (?) I may be, but the current system is preferable to me....

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I haven't found it at all difficult and we've been living in an RV for over two years now.

Perhaps for someone doing it for the first few times it can be a little tricky to learn. I note that you didn't pump it any time you emptied it Dave. 

The 3 inch hose doesn't need to be long and will rarely be over two yards.

I've never seen anybody recommend that both black and grey need to be opened at the same time. 

I've never needed anything more than the grey water to rinse the 3 inch pipe after use. It has a compartment all of it's own (but equally it could be bagged) if people were concerned.

The two systems are separate on an RV. Though the outlet is common.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I don't think I said that the black and grey were opened at the same time, it was a slide valve which opened first the black, then you moved it one notch further and t opened the grey to rinse through, I am sure that with use it would be second nature, I was simply trying to point out that the emptying s more complex than simply connect and empty as might be thought.; 

If the facilities were available throughout Europe then the advantages of the system GREATLY outweigh the disadvantages IMO; no carrying, no chemicals, easy and once mastered, much quicker to do.... 

BUT manufacturers would probably be wary of incorporating even a 100l black tank due to weight restrictions and payload in a MH with a 3.5t maximum......

Dave


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

From our personal point of view, one of the advantages of moving to a eurovan after 20 years of RVs was the ability to be more flexible in dumping 'black'. We never had a maccerator and hose like erneboy's so were limited to two sections of 4" hose, about 25/30 ft. I've lost count of the number of black dump points that are above ground level so I became quite adept at asking where a manhole was in several languages!

Malcolm


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry Dave I misunderstood.

These steps you described confused me.
4 then move the slide valve so that the some of the grey water empties through the same hose,
5. close the slide valve to stop the emptying, 
6. flush through both toilets (if two fitted),
7. repeat steps 3 and then 4 to ensure cleaned through all tubes, ...........

We never need to bother with those things and I haven't met a RVer who does, though there are plenty I haven't met of course. We just let the black go and let the grey go, we very rarely rinse either of the tanks, it's not necessary to do that regularly though giving the black a few fill and empties over a dump point perhaps once a year is useful if we've been pumping a lot. That's beacuse pumping empties it a little slowly and some can get stuck, whereas if we're just dropping it straight out of the 3 inch pipe there's a fir bit of suction to help it on it's way.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes Malcolm, if we didn't have the option of pumping we'd be quite limited for emptying.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The RV's we used in Florida did not have a pump facility so it was always essential to find a downhill route......

There were an awful lot of things that I DID really like though - that was the first place we found refillable LPG and also the first time we used the plug in mains water connections - saved carrying hoses or anything to connect to taps..... and wait....... and wait..... while pressing those really annoying buttons to keep the water flowing.....

Mind you filling with PETROL for a 35' long RV with a 100 gallon (admittedly US gallons) petrol tank was eye watering.....

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Dave the pump/macerator is deployed only if required and as Malcolm has pointed out not everybody carries one. It simply connects to hose you're familiar with using the same bayonet fittings. It's not a fitment in many RVs and it's use is optional. In Europe where drive over (or right beside) ground level, dumping points are not common a pump is very useful but not essential.

For those who aren't familiar with them here's one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Surgeflo-RV...id=1453754950&sr=8-42&keywords=Macerator+pump

The waste goes in the end, is chopped up and pumped out the side through a hose.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

i;d love a black tank and macerator ,seems a good idea, cassettes are hard to get rid of, could dump it almost anywhere if the need arose with one of those, drain hedge bottom etc


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

surely "dumping anywhere" would pollute with raw sewage.......?

that to me would be unacceptable, even down drains or around hedge bases as raw sewage is a definite health risk and only sewers are designed to take it - NOT surface water drainage systems.....

Frankly, I would hope that the landowner or Environment Agency would take action against ANYONE doing that - HEAVILY, MH already get a bad name for allowing grey water to be emptied, raw sewage would probably instantly guarantee a ban from that area - quite correctly IMO.

Dave


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

surely if its an emergency situation in the middle of nowhere, who's to see or know. bit of muck never hurt anyone.

remember my dad cleaning the blocked drains out and putting waste around the apple trees, never hurt them, in fact trees never fruited so good


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## Funtastic (Dec 17, 2015)

The-Cookies said:


> surely if its an emergency situation in the middle of nowhere, who's to see or know. bit of muck never hurt anyone.
> 
> remember my dad cleaning the blocked drains out and putting waste around the apple trees, never hurt them, in fact trees never fruited so good


I agree. I am glad someone has finally admitted to this. Its only a bit of poo for goodness sake. Anyway I thought that blue stuff neutralised it and made it safe to just pour in a hedge or a drain. Ive seen them dumping it on the beach in Spain which is not so nice though if you fancy building a sandcastle later. I suppose you could mark the spot with a little flag or something.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Funtastic said:


> I agree. I am glad someone has finally admitted to this. Its only a bit of poo for goodness sake. Anyway I thought that blue stuff neutralised it and made it safe to just pour in a hedge or a drain. .......


Two points;

1. various diseases are directly linked to sewage e.g. cholera, typhid, hepatitis and so on..... so it is NOT just a bit of poo - which explains why those poor people on the Somerset Levels last year, or Cumbria or Scotland this year have had to clean out the filth left behind when the sewage came OUT of the drains.....

2.AFAIK RV's do not use ""the blue stuff" and are simply a store until a convenient emptying point can be found, so no, it will NOT be neutralised....

Dave


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## Funtastic (Dec 17, 2015)

Penquin said:


> Two points;
> 
> 1. various diseases are directly linked to sewage e.g. cholera, typhid, hepatitis and so on..... so it is NOT just a bit of poo - which explains why those poor people on the Somerset Levels last year, or Cumbria or Scotland this year have had to clean out the filth left behind when the sewage came OUT of the drains.....
> 
> ...


Oh I see. But does it matter in the likes of France or Spain as I think they dont have proper sewage systems like us. I think it all just gets flushed into the sea or rivers anyway untreated. In effect, Im just cutting out the middle man.

I went to an Aires once and emptied the cassette there but all the toilet paper got stuck in that grate thing in the middle. I couldnt understand it as I watched all the other vans who clearly had much better onboard systems and they just drove up opened a tap at the back of the van and it all went down dead easy.

I dont think the French were very happy with me. I had to borrow a stick.


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

I smell a Troll - Fol de roll !!

Cheers

Dave


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## MHFAdmin (Jun 21, 2007)

HarleyDave said:


> I smell a Troll - Fol de roll !!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Indeed you do Dave.

Not only trolling but duplicate accounts too.

Accounts have now been suspended.


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Yay!!

Success!! - Someone, somewhere, is looking/listening

Cheers

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

HarleyDave said:


> Yay!!
> 
> Success!! - Someone, somewhere, is looking/listening
> 
> ...


Yes, and so quickly, so I assume you 'reorted' the posts.

Admin do seem to be more attentive on MHF recently, so thanks to them.

Geoff


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

I was only jesting would never ever do such a thing , i'm amazed me being on here for 3 years that someone would think i would.



just shows don't it


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There and I had tried to post what I considered to be a constructive answer.....

it would be easy to spend time disproving the statement about the treatment of sewage in France - it is different as France is so large that mains drainage outside cities is a rarity but the _Fosse Septique_ system is VERY well regulated - much more so than the septic tanks or cesspits in the rural parts of the UK.......

We have a statutory inspection every 5 years to ensure it is correctly installed and operating (for which we have to pay of course), and it has to be recertified when the house is for sale - that does not occur in the UK, as well as the system having to be emptied on completion of the sale..... that does not occur in the UK either.....

But it is not worth typing and posting this now as Funtastic has gone, banned, is no more, so back to under the bridge he goes (or she) waiting for another Billy Goat Gruff to deal with him correctly.....

Thanks VS for your prompt treatment, by the time you dealt with him I was tucked up in the land of nod.....

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Very funny Funtastic and Cookies. The topic needed a bit of lightening up.

I had considered saying something about pumping it into a hedge, through a letterbox or under a door just to see what the reaction would be.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

old funtastic could have been any one of the many I've seen doing exactly what he wrote, Wissant is a great example.

the beach in Spain we stayed at was another great find, poo and paper behind every bush and derelict building, flies where everywhere, was most enjoyable watching the morning treks into the scrub with a length of tissue in hand. the ones who did have cassettes took them into a little inlet and poured straight into the sea, needless to say i didn't swim there.

i was going to renew on here but not now, seems pointless, you either fit or don't .

hey ho you found a troll i am so happy for you


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

You could always get someone to syphon it out for you. :wink2:

http://973thedawg.com/thieves-attempt-to-siphon-gas-from-a-bus-but-accidentally-suck-out-sewage/

Pete


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes, I remember the **** thieves.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I suppose, it depends on how a large black waste is emptied.
I have seen the black emptied all over the drain, spreading around for quite an area, and the smell was, to say the least, not nice, then they drive away and the next vans occupants have to walk all over the wet stuff:surprise: YUK!
The aires at Gruissan comes to mind! a large concrete area, with a drain in the middle.
Not having had a black tank, I would imagine it is OK if the pipe is placed down a waste drain, but not all over the top!
But then again, we do see people with cassette's behaving badly:surprise:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

So I can assume then that there is nothing on the after market to convert from cassette to a black holding tank, I would think over here we would need the macerator system.

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

:?::?::?::?:


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

cabby said:


> So I can assume then that there is nothing on the after market to convert from cassette to a black holding tank, I would think over here we would need the macerator system.
> 
> cabby


I think a black tank system would have to be designed in from the start. The toilet would have to be located pretty much directly above where the tank is under the chassis, I would have thought. Otherwise, you'd use a lot more water to flush it. I think it probably only suits bigger RVs with bigger payloads, to cope with lugging round more water and waste.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

tugboat said:


> I think a black tank system would have to be designed in from the start. The toilet would have to be located pretty much directly above where the tank is under the chassis, I would have thought. Otherwise, you'd use a lot more water to flush it. I think it probably only suits bigger RVs with bigger payloads, to cope with lugging round more water and waste.


That makes sense. [Can't find a clapping emoticon Tuggers:laugh:]
I think if people already have a cassette system and want to increase capacity the easiest way is to shell out on one (or more) extra cassettes.

Of course this depends on available storage space, but the weight of carrying it is the same whether in extra cassettes or a dedicated 'black' tank and the cassettes are probably lighter. Also the cost of two/three cassettes at £75(?) each must be less than the installation of a tank.

We have two and I am seriously thinking of a third (****) - just to keep up with our friends - who are ??????

Geoff


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

You could fit one of these:

http://www.thetford-europe.com/product/aqua-magic-v/


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

nicholsong said:


> That makes sense. [Can't find a clapping emoticon Tuggers:laugh:]
> I think if people already have a cassette system and want to increase capacity the easiest way is to shell out on one (or more) extra cassettes.
> 
> Of course this depends on available storage space, but the weight of carrying it is the same whether in extra cassettes or a dedicated 'black' tank and the cassettes are probably lighter. Also the cost of two/three cassettes at £75(?) each must be less than the installation of a tank.
> ...


I've been carrying an extra cassette for the last couple of seasons to increase my period of independence whilst wilding in the Outer Hebrides. I haven't needed to use it yet, but I'm only one person in the van. I wouldn't hesitate to get a third if I thought I needed it. Water capacity is my limiting factor, I'm on the lookout for an ex-MOD water bowser to tow around!:grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I suppose you could put a bag in the loo bowl and poo in that, put it in a sealed container and deposit it in the nearest dog poo bin, or would most poo poo that that idea.

The above is a jest only, & not to be taken seriously, but where do dog owners when wild camping dispose of the doggy waste bags, not many bins out in the sticks are there.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

tugboat said:


> Water capacity is my limiting factor, I'm on the lookout for an ex-MOD water bowser to tow around!:grin2:


Water! Water! - G+T Man!

Then you will not care where you dump the 'Black'

See you on FC for the rest of the conversation:laugh:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cant say ive ever been in a situation where I have struggled to find somewhere to empty. Once or twice its been a pain but as we spend so much time in Europe your never far away from somewhere to empty. I have carried it between my legs on the scooter before with mixed results.  Flipping hole cover vibrated loose once as did the air valve. Not good.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> C I have carried it between my legs on the scooter before with mixed results.  Flipping hole cover vibrated loose once as did the air valve. Not good.


Try balancing it on the handlebars of a bike while cycling a couple of km to the nearest emptying point......

Now that can be exciting......:surprise::grin2:

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Kev, I see you're attempting to widen the scope of the conversation. Well done, there's been FAR TOO MUCH concentration on the disposal of human excrement in this thread and we've completely failed to recognise the signiffycance and widespread presence of dog turds which ARE deposited randomly by badly behaved mutts. Plus of course, it goes without saying that we always get an argument (so I'll say it anyway) when the topic of human excrement and it's disposal, or in this case it's not disposal, crops up. In fact the excitement caused by this topic is only exceeded by the excitement caused when the dog HATING lobby start moaning about dogs in general and their excrement in particular. So there we are excrement and excitement all bundled up together.

Hence why your widening of the conversation is such a good idea Kev. Well done.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

If we all stayed on topic this forum would die.

cabby


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

cabby said:


> If we all stayed on topic this forum would die.
> 
> cabby


so would we........... from boredom.....:smile2:

Dave


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## alexblack13 (Feb 10, 2013)

I just noticed the information in the Caravan and Camping club 'Your place in the country 2016' freeby booklet with loads of sites therein. On one page there was a statement saying that members with Moho's could use the site's facilities (all of them) for a small fee.

Quite interesting this as we often land up searching for someplace to 'empty' and refill water tank etc. 

Happy days. Is this a new system they have intro'd or have we been asleep?

LOL...

Al' .....


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

cabby said:


> If we all stayed on topic this forum would die.
> 
> cabby


Oh dear Phillip. I'm sorry if you didn't realise that I was encouraging Kevin with his diversion, even if it was small. One kind of crap to another?


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

alexblack13 said:


> I just noticed the information in the Caravan and Camping club 'Your place in the country 2016' freeby booklet with loads of sites therein. On one page there was a statement saying that members with Moho's could use the site's facilities (all of them) for a small fee.
> 
> Quite interesting this as we often land up searching for someplace to 'empty' and refill water tank etc.
> 
> ...


We have used either the CC or the C&CC (or maybe even both) several times in the last 4 or 5 years for exactly this.

The reception varied from 'No problem' to 'Sorry, no' and the cost from zero to £5.

Maybe they've now made it official.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> Oh dear Phillip. I'm sorry if you didn't realise that I was encouraging Kevin with his diversion, even if it was small. One kind of crap to another?


Some are slower than others Alan, I could see you were constipating on moving this thread along, as without movements we would all be stuffed. :surprise:

Terry


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

alexblack13 said:


> I just noticed the information in the Caravan and Camping club 'Your place in the country 2016' freeby booklet with loads of sites therein. On one page there was a statement saying that members with Moho's could use the site's facilities (all of them) for a small fee.
> 
> Quite interesting this as we often land up searching for someplace to 'empty' and refill water tank etc.
> 
> ...


Alex

I gave up my C+CC M'ship a couple of years ago, but that facility did exist then, but I think then only for most sites, but not all - there was a charge advertised for the relevant ones, but it was not cheap if you just wanted to dump and fill water - I think usually £5-6 then, but probably quite good value if you used washing machine and dryer.

I have found private sites which would alow a dump and fill for a lot less, or donation in the charity box, or free sometimes, but we always left 'something' - small box of Belgium chocolates for the staff, for example.

It makes the 'Clubs' seem more like a business than actual commercial businesses.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well thank you for that Tel, but it seems that only you and I (or me , which is correct please?) give a crap anyway.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Kev, I see you're attempting to widen the scope of the conversation. Well done, there's been FAR TOO MUCH concentration on the disposal of human excrement in this thread and we've completely failed to recognise the signiffycance and widespread presence of dog turds which ARE deposited randomly by badly behaved mutts. Plus of course, it goes without saying that we always get an argument (so I'll say it anyway) when the topic of human excrement and it's disposal, or in this case it's not disposal, crops up. In fact the excitement caused by this topic is only exceeded by the excitement caused when the dog HATING lobby start moaning about dogs in general and their excrement in particular. So there we are excrement and excitement all bundled up together.
> 
> Hence why your widening of the conversation is such a good idea Kev. Well done.


Not sure if I've just been got at, the above was so well worded, but I'm deffo not anti dog though, had too many for that to be true, but I don't and won't have one any more due to the painful departure of my last dog Barny, only a mongrel, but a fine friend.

It was a crap thread anyway Alan :wink2:

The question remains what do wilders do with it?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

alexblack13 said:


> I just noticed the information in the Caravan and Camping club 'Your place in the country 2016' freeby booklet with loads of sites therein. On one page there was a statement saying that members with Moho's could use the site's facilities (all of them) for a small fee.
> 
> Quite interesting this as we often land up searching for someplace to 'empty' and refill water tank etc.
> 
> ...


If only you didn't have to be a member of C&CC it might stop none members who wild, dumping in inappropriate places, as they would have a place to go.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

No not getting at you Kev. I know you're not anti.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> No not getting at you Kev. I know you're not anti.


I didn't think so as you are a fair minded bloke usually, but it was written almost tongue in cheek from my perspective 

BTW how are the FW couple you were helping out in France doing, I looked on FC but didn't find that thread.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh I think they're fairly OK now Kev. Doubt they'll ever finish the job but it's OK to live in.

Older threads on FCs had to be deleted due to lack of space, but it hardly matters as it's mainly crap anyway and perhaps having some of it disappear is a very good idea anyway.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Oh I think they're fairly OK now Kev. Doubt they'll ever finish the job but it's OK to live in.
> 
> Older threads on FCs had to be deleted due to lack of space, but it hardly matters as it's mainly crap anyway and perhaps having some of it disappear is a very good idea anyway.


Plus one on that last sentiment   is that because the site owner is tighter than a ducks arse (water tight) and won't pay for more space > >


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I say old boy. I'll have you know that Baz is the most generous of benefactors, handing out awards, stickers and free beer like all three are going out of fashion.

No I think the removal of old posts is done more in order to protect the guilty than due to financial considerations.

I expect I'll get a nice new award now for such a nice bit of a... li.....


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ackshirley old threads are never deleted and the search function works well. Old Images and videos have to be deleted (And there are lots) as Roger can fill an entire hard drive in an afternoon.  Tuggers is responsible for this task. It gives him something to do and keeps him off the streets which is a good thing as his tag only allows him to go as far as his front garden.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Oh dear Kev, that did not last very long did it. crap thread indeed, only with the wanderings that you may have thrown in, as usual.

erneboy, have you been dreaming again, bazza letting go of his leffe, yeah right. >>

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

cabby said:


> Oh dear Kev, that did not last very long did it. crap thread indeed, only with the wanderings that you may have thrown in, as usual.
> 
> erneboy, have you been dreaming again, bazza letting go of his leffe, yeah right. >>
> 
> cabby


Quite valid I thought mate


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

What can I say, apart from insulting you.>> no sport left in that anymore.:grin2::grin2:

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

cabby said:


> What can I say, apart from insulting you.>> no sport left in that anymore.:grin2::grin2:
> 
> cabby


I suppose it's a remaining pleasure for those so inclined, I had you down for being better than that though :wink2:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

It does not hurt me to admit you are right,So I must be better than that. :grin2::grin2:
It just seems as if this month has been full of depression on here, maybe the weather.Looking forward to reading some interesting posts on where people are going and what needs to be done to get ready. Maybe some quick modifications.
I think the word I need is, Vibrant, that is lacking on here.

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

cabby said:


> It does not hurt me to admit you are right,So I must be better than that. :grin2::grin2:
> It just seems as if this month has been full of depression on here, maybe the weather.Looking forward to reading some interesting posts on where people are going and what needs to be done to get ready. Maybe some quick modifications.
> I think the word I need is, Vibrant, that is lacking on here.
> 
> cabby


I thought the site was running nicely Phil.

I'm vibrating as fast as I can but it is quite tiring.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Careful or you will overheat.

cabby


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