# Are SAT NAV's Illegal in France?



## SueandRoger (Apr 14, 2008)

Whilst at a Katherine Jenkins concert in Portsmouth last night, (Fantastic) I met up with an old Navy chum that I had not seen for years and he was under the impression that France had banned all SAT NAV's which I personally find difficult to believe!

I thought that it was only systems that gave warnings about speed cameras but even so, I presume that would include my old TOM TOM 700 that does give warnings of such cameras, but I can't see how you remove that facility!


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

NO NO and NO,

Sat Navs are not illegal, what is currently being done is that the use of warning devices for speed cameras which includes the databases on sat navs is being stopped.

TomTom and the other manufacturers are rejigging quite legally to give warning of dangerous places which will include tight bends, steep hills and speed cameras.......

But the actual Sat Nav is quite legal.

Dave


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Penquin said:


> ........ But the actual Sat Nav is quite legal.
> 
> Dave


And long may they remain so, especially as mine doubles as a reversing monitor


----------



## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

AnA trip into any large supermarket eg Auchan at Calais (coquelles)will show you that they are live and kicking.

Phill


----------



## Dougaitken (Aug 14, 2009)

Hi SueandRoger

Here is the info from the Tomtom site of hoe to remove Speed cameras from your unit.

http://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5560/?locale=en_GB

If your speed camera files are currently being updated as you have a current subscription then you shoukld see that it deletes the French section if you updated now.

Doug


----------



## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Does anyone know what are Garmin doing about it ?


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Does anyone know what are Garmin doing about it ?


The French authorities have asked SatNav companies to sign up to an agreement not to supply their products with the location of French cameras. They can include zones ofdanger which can include camera positions but not say they are.
SpeedyDux explained it clearly:

"According to the explanation given by Maître de Caumont in France Soir on 26 November 2011 [see http://www.francesoir.fr/actualite/societe/outils-d-aide-conduite-c-est-une-regression-160615.html]

1. From 29 November 2011, under an agreement reached between the manufacturers of speed camera warning devices (GPS of course, not radar detectors*) and the French Minister of the Interior, henceforth the devices will be known as "Driving Aids" and the GPS location databases must only warn of "zones de danger" or what we might call "black spots" instead of fixed speed camera sites. The manufacturers will no longer provide updates for customer download purposes so any existing database of speed camera sites will quickly become obsolete. If you buy a new satnav or download an updated warning database, in France you will have to adapt to the warnings of black spots, and guess whether it is in fact a fixed speed camera site or simply a dangerous junction.

[I don't know whether Tom Tom has actually signed up to this agreement, but since they sell their satnavs just about everywhere they are hardly likely to wish to antagonize the French Minister of the Interior by ignoring this official policy even if it isn't an actual law. Perhaps that explains the reports that Tom Tom mapping updates are automatically removing or disabling the database of speed camera locations in France so that they conform with the new policy for motorists.]

2. Motorists who wish to continue using older GPS warning devices or fixed speed camera databases in existing satnavs can still do so. This is because the law has not changed. Maître de Caumont advised that they remain perfectly legal and he defies anyone to prosecute a motorist who does so. Internet sites that publish the speed camera locations have not been banned.

3. Radar detectors, i.e. those devices that rely on detecting radar waves, were made illegal in France in 1975. If you are caught with one in your possession, you risk a fine of up to 1,500 Euros and a 3 year disqualification, together with confiscation of the device and 3 penalty points on your licence (when you get it back, presumably).


----------



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

there's 75 posts on this thread about this.....

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-118946-what-are-the-french-doing-now.html

:x


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

That must be why Katherine Jenkins burst into tears at her concert the night before....she had bought a new TomTom and was going to use it in France..... I just knew it was nothing to do with her split from her boyfriend :lol:

***


----------



## 79144will (Sep 8, 2010)

I know why she burst into tears,she`s got a S7000 snooper,I`ve got two of these things and wish I had bought a blind donkey,would probably find more things , two of them have been returned to performance products ,the first one gave up on the way back from germany,at the start of 2011,the second gave up reading the satallites positions at dover,on the way to the north to see the northern lights on the 10 th nov 2011,we used the spare one for the trip and we are still in Sweden with it working still,hope it lasts a bit longer then the other two,on average 6 months, not bad for a £400.00 bit of kit,I think it`s called inbuilt obsolescense ,or may be they are just c**p,we are told by the customer servises that it`s our fault the second one broke,seamingly the GPS pcb aerial has been pulled out or off ,not that we have that part to plug into the unit ,the aerial I mean,so no problem for performance products,blame the owner,the only performance should be with Miss Jenkins, not making sat nav systems,! !still in the frozen north,Sweden,regards to all Bill


----------



## SueandRoger (Apr 14, 2008)

Dougaitken said:


> Hi SueandRoger Here is the info from the Tomtom site of hoe to remove Speed cameras from your unit. Doug


Thanks Doug

I have connected my 700 up to TT Home as per the relevant instructions and it does not show that I have any speed cameras on my device for some reason and they are not shown under POI's either; I certainly get the warnings when I approach a camera. I think my device is probably too old as the link does not show the GO 700 on the list. I think I will email TT and ask them how I erase them. Thanks anyway for the response.

Dare I say that my chum also mentioned the need to carry a breathaliser kit; anyone got the true info on that?


----------



## oldsalt (Jul 14, 2009)

*French Driving Laws 2012*

Roger 
Good to meet up again after so long.

I have carried out some more digging today, if only to be sure I was not going mad and that I had heard the news correctly

Here is a resume of what I have unearthed from many sources.

Regards
Richard

Tougher Road Traffic Laws in France

A decree containing a number of miscellaneous provisions affecting French road traffic law have been published this week bringing into force a series of tougher measures applying to drivers on French roads.

• End of the road for radar warning devices

Equipment which detects a radar signal has always been banned in France but the new laws take matters a step further by banning 'driver aids' which incorporate data giving a warning of where speed cameras are located. Arguably, this information is already in the public domain with Michelin maps, for example, posting details of fixed radar positions but in the face of opposition both from motorists' organisations and satnav manufacturers, the French government has decided to press ahead with this measure.
Already, some manufacturers of satnav equipment have taken the lead by stopping the inclusion of data on speed traps in new equipment but, for users of existing equipment, compliance with the new law will depend on whether they bother to connect up with a manufacturer's website for a software update to remove what will become the prohibited software. For the police, enforcing the new law will not be an easy task particularly as many vehicles now come with embedded software systems which the non-technologically inclined driver may find difficult to disengage.

Nonetheless, the penalty for the new offence is steep - a fine of up to 1500 € and the loss of up to 6 points on a driver's licence.

• Using a telephone while driving - fine increased

Up till now, the fine for using a mobile whilst driving in France had been set at what had almost become a nominal 35 € and loss of 2 points on a French licence. From this week, the penalty for using a mobile phone whilst driving in France will go up to 135 € with the loss of 3 points.

• Watch a movie while driving

There have been sporadic reports from police in the South of France that lorry drivers, particularly foreign ones, watching movies whilst driving had become a particular concern. Drivers caught watching a movie whilst at the wheel will now face a fine of 1500 €, instead of the present tariff of 135 €. In addition, either 2 or 3 points will be deducted from a driver's licence and any audio-visual equipment used will be confiscated.

• Straying on to the hard shoulder on autoroutes

The principal cause of drivers straying on to the hard shoulder is driver fatigue and up till now, straying temporarily into the emergency lane on autoroutes in France was not an offence. Under pressure from autoroute companies anxious for the safety of their workforces, the French government has introduced a new offence, effectively of clipping the hard shoulder, for which the penalty will be 135 €. Also, the existing fine for driving on the hard shoulder on French autoroutes increases from 35 € to 135 €.

• New laws for motorcyclists on French roads (not sure this going to fly - a lot of upset from the motorcyclists)

The decree also covers the requirement for motorcyclists riding a motor-bike with an engine capacity exceeding 125 c.c. to wear a reflective garment. The French Department of Transport has still to define the criteria for reflective garments and the measure compelling motor-cyclists on French roads to wear something hi-viz will not come into effect before 1st January 2013. In the case of non-compliance, the offender would be liable to a fine of 68 € with a 2 point licence deduction.

There is also an alteration to the law concerning non-conforming number plates which applies to all road-users but especially bikers. The penalty for driving with a non-conforming plate increases from 68 € to 135 €. The Ministry of Transport will also introduce a new regulation concerning the size of registration plates carried by motor-bikes with the aim of making motor bikes more identifiable, especially if flashed by a speed camera.

• Alcolock ( stop the car /van moving if you have had too much booze)

Local authorities have already begun to introduce on-board driver's breath testing equipment on French school buses and as we reported earlier on 1st December 2011 'France heads towards mandatory in-car breathalysers', such equipment will become mandatory in all vehicles.

• Magistrates to have direct access to French National Drivers' Database

This procedural measure should allow magistrates to better dispose of road traffic cases coming before them. Up till now, a magistrate had to make individual application for a driver's previous convictions and points deducted history. Sometimes, if the necessary information was not forthcoming timeously, the offender could face a lesser penalty than would otherwise have been the case. Under the new procedure, magistrates should, in theory, have a driver's history and previous convictions 'at their fingertips'.

Word of caution.

It appears that the upcoming elections may derail/ amend the new laws.
The law on Satnavs is further confused by the way the rules are written and refers to " a screen" in the drivers view.

As Nelson said saliors always chase the horizon

Richard


----------



## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

spykal said:


> That must be why Katherine Jenkins burst into tears at her concert the night before....she had bought a new TomTom and was going to use it in France..... I just knew it was nothing to do with her split from her boyfriend :lol:
> 
> ***


So she's finally free.....I'm on the way round.
Gerry


----------



## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

5 minutes ago the Auchan online shop had 64 items avilable under gps for the car

http://www.auchan.fr/recherche/resultatRecherche.jsp?textSearch=gps&idfamille=7338673&idUniver=


----------



## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

Breatherlisers are promised here in France but no law has yet been passed to require it. That is yet to come.


----------



## SNandJA (Aug 22, 2008)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Does anyone know what are Garmin doing about it ?


A friend informs me that he telephoned Garmin to confirm the situation outlined in the thread "What are the French Up to Now" and that they are taking steps similar to that of TomTom France which I summarised on the same thread. So the best information is that GPS are legal but that Speed Cameras (in French "Radars" databases) are illegal and should be disabled or removed.

Link to other posts

Steve


----------



## france_normandy (Jan 10, 2012)

The new law on carrying an "alcootest" has not yet had a date set for introduction - the date of 1 April 2012 has been mooted but is not certain. I've blogged the full details of the law changes but can't post you a link. If you search for "New Laws in France for Drivers and Motorcyclists in 2012" on Google you should find it.

The alcootest law seems pointless to me, but there you go - this is France!

Hope that helps.

Phil


----------



## peedee (May 10, 2005)

SNandJA said:


> So the best information is that GPS are legal but that Speed Cameras (in French "Radars" databases) are illegal and should be disabled or removed.
> Steve


This is what the Caravan Club is advising.

peedee


----------



## france_normandy (Jan 10, 2012)

Steve said:


> So the best information is that GPS are legal but that Speed Cameras (in French "Radars" databases) are illegal and should be disabled or removed.
> 
> Steve


There is a slight anomaly, however. Databases which are not speed camera specific, but instead warn of "danger zones" and "accident hotspots" are allowed. Many of these will obviously coincide with speed camera locations. The manufacturers of GPS devices have agreed with the govt. that if they produce such databases then they will not be solely POIs for speed cameras - but there is nothing to stop them, and independent compilers of POIs, including dangerous locations that happen to have radars.


----------

