# Another winter insulation tip



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Winter insulation tip!

I always cut cardboard to the size of all top hatches, flip up or wind up.

I then place this cardboard on top of the sliding blackout screen and under the opening hatch.

Cardboard is a really good insulator.

After changing vans this year, I have just made a new set


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess a good idea Grath.
I prefer to cut an oversize square of fibreglass roof insulation. I also use a 4 ft. length up the back of the fridge.

I usually have half a roll left over somewhere.

Ray.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I guess a good idea Grath.
> I prefer to cut an oversize square of fibreglass roof insulation. I also use a 4 ft. length up the back of the fridge.
> 
> Ray.


Thanks Ray, I have always found it quite effective and costs nothing :lol:


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

My tip,

I use http://www.kdbinsulation.com/airflex/ triple sheets for the the roof vents, double for side windows,

Snug as a bug in a rug :lol:

tony


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi guys
When we go away to cold climes in the camper
We have old kampmat cut to the shapes of the roof lites and all the windows
We put them in place then close the blinds or sun shades.

The advantage is is is very robust not affected by damp and rolls up easily secured with a strap.

Kev


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Kev1 said:


> Hi guys
> When we go away to cold climes in the camper
> We have old kampmat cut to the shapes of the roof lites and all the windows
> We put them in place then close the blinds or sun shades.
> ...


I thought of these as we use them on the work top, when not in use.
But you must remember, the cardboard is free :lol:


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Free sounds good
lol


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I think most people will have the opportunity to get hold of the cardboard at this time of the year.
We went to B&Q yesterday and purchased a workbench at a discounted price. No waste, environmental friendly, cardboard, thermal roof vent insulation  made from the box it came in.
Works for me :lol: 
Cheapskate :lol:


----------



## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

Interesting as I'm off to a probably very chilly France/Belgium in a couple of weeks wild/aires camping.

Did I say a couple of weeks?? WOOOHOOO :wink:


----------



## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

hi

Kevin mentioned the karimat before which got me looking and I am going to make a laminate of

thermolite

and

This!

using Double sided tape or upholster spray glue

should be able to cut it with scissors

should be ultra light and resist damp which cardboard will attract

what do you think Kevin ?

Neil


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Forget the bubble and stick to the other and double up :wink: 

tony


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi bubble63.
Looking at bubble wrap :lol: sorry, I had to say that  
I don't think it matters much what ever we use as long as we do it  
 

Regarding the cardboard. I have used it for many a year and never as yet had any damp problem  
Thanks for your contribution 

ps. your top link did not work


----------



## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

GEMMY said:


> Forget the bubble and stick to the other and double up :wink:
> 
> tony


good point , why didn't I spot the error, I think I had the bubble wrap in mind then found the foil stuff! doh

Grath

I agree, c/b is free and makes perfect sense

I am planning to ski in the motorhome , so think there may be some sweaty bodies present.

 :roll:

thanks for the tip!

neill


----------



## StewartJ (Nov 20, 2009)

We use the roll up camping mat with foil on one side cut to shape for windows and vents, light weight and very effective and not affected by wet (condensation) Silver side facing inwards to reflect heat back.

Not free as in cardboard but cheap.


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Neil have fun


----------



## carprus (Jun 22, 2008)

I am planning to ski in the motorhome , 

Really , on the cresta run. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Insulation*

Hi
Interesting ideas.
Does anyone insulate under the bed in Garage models? I know you need an airflow, but under the slats there would be room for insulation and an airflow.
This might stop condensation in the garage which is a bit of a problem and also keep the bedroom a little warmer.
Does anyone else have water on the garage floor?
Regards
Alshymer


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Insulation*



alshymer said:


> Hi
> Interesting ideas.
> Does anyone insulate under the bed in Garage models? I know you need an airflow, but under the slats there would be room for insulation and an airflow.
> This might stop condensation in the garage which is a bit of a problem and also keep the bedroom a little warmer.
> ...


Thanks, but no, not as far as I know, but I will check.


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Kevinswas the name my mum used when I was in deep s--t  lol
 

That sounds to be practical.
I guess the only down side with any insulation is storing it in the van when not in use
Kev


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Because the boiler is in the garage of our van it is warmer than the hab area.

Never any water or condensation.

The double bed is above the garage and there a a small gap all around to allow the return airflow back to the boiler.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

pippin said:


> Because the boiler is in the garage of our van it is warmer than the hab area.
> 
> Never any water or condensation.
> 
> The double bed is above the garage and there a a small gap all around to allow the return airflow back to the boiler.


Pippin, are you saying that aire flows from the hab area to the boiler?
I ask as my boiler is in the garage and I can keep the hab area warm, but not quite so sure about the boiler area. Obviously, I am talking about when the van is not in use and no boiler heating on.
I have left the wardrobe door open wishing warm air to reach the boiler.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

The Truma boiler is in the garage.

Warm air is fed by ducting to various parts of the hab area.

The displaced air has to return to the boiler intake* as the garage is sealed from the outside.

It does that by various routes - gaps have been left for the purpose.

That is why I advocate leaving the blown air heating on at minimum during cold weather even when laid up.

The circulation of warm air throughout the van, garage, around the water pipes and all the nooks and crannies is very effective against freezing, condensation and mould.

Far better than an oil-filled heater which moves very little air.

* I don't mean the boiler combustion air.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes Pippin, I know all that, but I have never ever run my boiler without water. I know that the handbook says you can, but I have never felt happy doing it  
I use the oil heater and it has always worked for me, but that was in M/Hs which did not have the boiler in the garage.
So in conclusion I take it you run yours without water and have done so for a few years without any problems.
Maybe I should try it as i have lots of gas :?: :?:


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

We never drain down the water system - the pipes are unlikely to freeze if the warm air is set to low.

We do have EHU at home which simplifies matters.

It is a rare week that we do not use the MH at least one night so we keep it permanently on standby ready to go.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Pippin.
I still have the dilemma, do I use the boiler without water.
As I said, I know the book says I can but?
I wonder how many of us do :?:


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

With regard to our french bed above the storage locker
When we got it we could feel cool air through the mattress.
We now fold two double blankets under the matress.
Improved things no end.

Kev


----------



## WhiteCheyenneMan (Sep 27, 2011)

I've never attempted to insulate the top hatches, but it sounds like a good idea.

I have a question though. Having just had the roof-light locking mechanisms replaced under warranty, would they be more at risk from moisture ingress if 'sealed off' from the rest of the interior?

We open all lockers and floor cupboards and lift all mattresses to aid circulation from our Bambino oil-filled radiator which is set to Frost protection. Using a max min thermometer in different locations reveals that this works well.

Being paranoid and because the water pipes on our MH run very close to the outer walls, I also drain all pipes using a Floe device. It's very quick, if a bit splashy!


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> I've never attempted to insulate the top hatches, but it sounds like a good idea.
> 
> I have a question though. Having just had the roof-light locking mechanisms replaced under warranty, would they be more at risk from moisture ingress if 'sealed off' from the rest of the interior?
> 
> ...


Hi WhiteCheyenneman.
I don't have any problem with ours and I have used this method for a few years.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the cardboard pieces are not a perfect fit, but they help to keep most of the cold out.


----------



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Grath said:


> Thanks Pippin.
> I still have the dilemma, do I use the boiler without water.
> As I said, I know the book says I can but?
> I wonder how many of us do :?:


Sometimes you have to run the boiler without water to get the internal temperature up. If not, as soon as you switch the heater off, the whole system(boiler) drains again (if it is cold as you are filling up with water before going away), the system is designed to do this and will not harm it in any way.

Paul.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

coppo said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Pippin.
> ...


Ours only drains when I want it to as the automatic dump is pegged closed. :lol:


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> I've never attempted to insulate the top hatches, but it sounds like a good idea.


It's also a good thing to do in very hot weather. Makes a noticeable difference to the internal temperature. We use cut up Poundland foam-and-silver-foil car windscreen covers. They are light enough to sit on the sill and not fall onto the blind beneath- and they can be rolled up and stored in the smallest space.

G


----------



## Tezza (May 1, 2005)

I find when the side window blinds are down the draught that comes under the gap and my arms touching the cold metal strip on the bottom part of the blind most irritating, I solved this by slipping a length of 15mm pipe lagging over the bottom of the blind, now it's warm if I touch it and very little draught gets past.


----------



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Grath said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > Grath said:
> ...


Each to their own then, I never close the dump peg, I let the MH do what it is designed to, ie, run the boiler without water to get the internal temperature up so it doesn't drain, it drains for a reason.

Paul.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

coppo said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > coppo said:
> ...


Almost everybody I know who wilds regularly, peg it closed and as long as you are aware it is not any problem. On my last van,I removed it and fitted a manual version. I just find it better to be in control of if and when it will dump. They have been known to dump, if you drive over a bumpy road.
My only concern was running the heating for a long period without water in the boiler
My vans internal temperature is always higher than the dump temp if it is filled so it is totally unnecessary for me.


----------



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Well we are going to have to differ on this one then, we wild regularly and let the MH do what it is designed to do(And that is not put a peg on the dump valve) It is meant to be run without water so thats what we do and I don't know what you mean saying for long periods, very short periods, 5 minutes max, just to get the internal temp up so the boiler doesn't drain.

Ours has never drained going over rough ground etc.

The manual says run it without water, It doesn't say you can put a peg on the valve. I can't work out why you are uncomfortable with doing something which the MH is designed to do, running the heater without water.

We use the MH all year so inevitably sometimes in the winter it is very cold when you are re-filling the system and putting the heater on without water for a few minutes ensures all is ok, I suppose everyone does it differently.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

coppo said:


> Well we are going to have to differ on this one then, we wild regularly and let the MH do what it is designed to do(And that is not put a peg on the dump valve) It is meant to be run without water so thats what we do and I don't know what you mean saying for long periods, very short periods, 5 minutes max, just to get the internal temp up so the boiler doesn't drain.
> 
> Ours has never drained going over rough ground etc.
> 
> The manual says run it without water, It doesn't say you can put a peg on the valve. I can't work out why you are uncomfortable with doing something which the MH is designed to do, running the heater without water.


Ho coppo, we will have to agree to disagree :lol: 
I don't know about you, but I am quite experienced and have motorhomed either using the peg or a manual dump valve for many a year and I believe the automatic dump is for people who are less experienced or maybe a little forgetful.
It is a safety net which I don't need and I have had water dump while going over a bump (once only) and it had not been touched for a few months as it was summertime.
Our boiler is always empty while the van is parked anytime during the winter and we also keep the van heated.
When we winter wild, we would obviously keep the van warm as we don't want to be cold, but overnight the temp could drop below the dump setting but NEVER to freezing point.
We go to bed with a warm van and when we wake up possibly around 0400hrs/0500hrs we might then put the heating on a low setting. The boiler never really gets cold so again, no need to dump at around the 5 or 7 degree.
To clarify.
My only concern was would I damage my boiler/heater if I run the heating for long periods with an empty boiler.I don't mean the hot water part, I just mean the heating.
I was thinking of putting the heating on while the van is parked at home during very frosty nights and not just for the 5 minutes you mention to get the temp up for the dump valve.
There is no mention in the handbook about running without water for long periods.
I trust you now know what I was meaning!
I have never had this problem before as my previous vans had the boiler in the wardrobe which was easy to keep warm with an oil heater. My present van has the boiler in the garage.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Sorry chaps, but I am of the "peg" brigade.

But *only* because, as stated, we are either using the van and heating it or it is parked on the drive connected up to EHU.

The dump temperature is too high (4°C?) and there is too high a hysterisis for when it undumps (8°C).

It would have to be very cold for the garage area to get down to water freezing point with the heating just cracked on at minimum on the hab thermostat.

I am fully aware of the catasrophic job and price to replace the Truma but I hope that will not happen due to our diligence.

The Transit MK7 display really annoys me with the outside air temperature warnings on the dash.

It flags up a message in yellow if the temp falls =/<4°C and then red when =/< 0°C.

If the temp detected goes slighly above or below those two levels, as it does frequently when driving, the two warnings are constantly coming and going.

Very distracting.

Don't let my practices lull you into the peg trick - *I* don't want to take the blame if *your* Truma fails :!:

E&OE


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Our outside temp gauge is useless.
It is fine when the engine is cold(ish) but when the engine is warm/hot it reads high.  
At least I think the weather is warm :lol:


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

The new Truma won't let you 'peg it' :wink: 

Truma have been watching and know what you (me  ) used to get up to. They have re designed it. you now have to alter the pipework and bypass the valve. :wink: 

tony


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> The new Truma won't let you 'peg it' :wink:
> 
> Truma have been watching and know what you (me  ) used to get up to. They have re designed it. you now have to alter the pipework and bypass the valve. :wink
> tony


You can buy a manual dump valve, they are quite expensive for what they are. From memory about £20/£30.
I fitted one on my tramp!


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Here they are, from about £24 to £31

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_n...t=0&_odkw=truma+drain+tap&_osacat=0&_from=R40


----------



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

I have cut rigid sheets of Styrofoam that I fit behind the window shades around our bed in the back. We don't take them out during the day. In the other areas we like to have some light coming in during the day so we don't do anything extra. I probably need to think about one of these other ideas for something that is easily removed during the daylight hours. 

Question, on EU what good does it do to be connected. Our heater only works on gas, do the newer ones also have electric heating built in? When we are full of water I will run a small electric heater to keep the temperature up. Also some said they keep the heat set to the lowest setting to keep from freezing, but that uses up the gas supply over time and is expensive. Probably the least expensive way to protect the heating system on gas without an electric heater is to just keep the water heating part turned on and the space heat off. The hot water tank is insulated and the trip valve won't open as long as the water is warm. 

Question, we get a lot of condensation on the cab windows even when all is covered up inside and out. Any ideas on how to limit this.


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi jehelm
I suppose a hook up is handy in the winter as it will keep your battery charged up as the blow hot air uses some power.
Regarding condensation, when we had our Tramp and C Class Hymer we never got any when using our external screens. You do need a little ventilation and we opened the top wind up window about 1/4 inch and also the toilet vent very slightly. 
If we only used internal screens, we did get condensation.


----------



## Scattycat (Mar 29, 2011)

I don't know if it will help with condensation, but one tip we picked up to help keep the van warm is when parked up turn all the vents in the cab to re-circulation. It's surprising how much it cuts down the drafts.

We've found the most effective way to cut down condensation in the cab overnight is an external screen


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

jhelm said:


> Question, we get a lot of condensation on the cab windows even when all is covered up inside and out. Any ideas on how to limit this.


Google isn't very helpful in giving a picture of your make of van but we have had 2 vans with a luton and "separate" cab area ( bathroom and kitchen between the cab and the sitting area) and our current one which has no luton and the cab is part of the sitting area.

In the luton vans we had condensation problems in the cab, even with external silver screens on, because it tended to be isolated from the rest for most of the non-driving time. We eventually worked out that there was simply no air circulation in there, partly because it was isolated and partly because we had not got blown air heating.

When we could, we put a small fan heater in the cab, on very low simply to move the air around. It worked well.

We don't have condensation problems with the current van as the whole van is one big area and we have blown air heating to all parts.

At night we open the kitchen window- at the back of the van- a crack and the back top vent too. Neither are angled to give draughts while we sleep.

G


----------



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

So it seems external covers might help. As said above the big problem is the isolation of the cab area. We do have blown heating but not much of it reaches that area. I do put the vent on recirculate when I remember. Probably one of those full on external covers that even cover the engine area would help. We just cover the windows.

In thinking now it seems that internal window covers might even make the problem worse since they insulate the glass from the warm air inside making the temperature difference even greater.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Putting the cab air on to recirculate before switching off might not work on all vehicles.

The recirc failed on our Transit MK7 - it simply brought in fresh air whatever the setting.

I traced it to a break in the pipe from the vacuum system to the recirc actuator.

The vacuum pipe actually goes to the fan speed cum recirc control switch on the dash.

No vacuum = no recirc.

Thus when the engine is switched off the vacuum is lost and the recirc flap returns to the fresh air input position.

The advice I was given on the Ford Transit Forum was to put the air to the windscreen position.

I wish there was a setting on the switch for no fan with the flap in the recirc position.
When driving reasonably fast air is pushed through the system and in winter that can be cold air!


----------



## JohnandChristine (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks to all the contributors on this thread........ we are new and this is our first winter and the MH is on the drive connected to an EHU that I just fitted.
I had been wondering if it was safe / wise to leave it on 24/7. and set the Alde heater to a low setting, say 10degs to keep the damp out .
It will also keep the battery from draining, which it does with the alarm on. 

Does anyone see a problem with that ? My water tanks are drained, but the heater has I think an antifreeze mix in.

I also want an external foil windscreen cover for a peugeot cab. Can anyone recommend a good deal please ?

What is the smartest way to make wheel covers ? Cardboard ? Plastic bag, plywood ?


Thanks to the person who gave me the tip about bread crates when we were on a rally ............... I have just acquired some. 8)


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Taylormade are excellent screens, I am pretty sure most will agree.

http://www.taylormade-covers.co.uk/


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

RX12 said:


> I had been wondering if it was safe / wise to leave it on 24/7. and set the Alde heater to a low setting, say 10degs to keep the damp out .


It's a controversial topic and one which has been debated at length on here but, there are lots and lots of us who would not dream of leaving any heat at all in the van in winter and have not had any problems at all with damp or condensation. We've never done it in almost 50 years of caravan and motorhome ownership.

If you have drained your water heater, all water tanks and loo reservoir, tipped cushions on their side to let air circulate in underbed lockers and left internal doors open, and air vents unblocked to ensure good ventilation then you will not have problems. The colder the better.

It's all down to the appliance of science !

G ( a scientist...)


----------



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

RX

Some people heat there vans others don't
However, we heat ours using an inexpensive oil filled rad cost £29

It has an in built frost thermostat and we leave it on.

I personally wouldnt use my vans heating system all the time
. for the following reasons

The van system is expensive to repair if it goes wrong and in my opinion you are putting wear and tear on the heating system when you can use a cheap heater instead.
I do run our heating system every few weeks just to turn it over.

Others will have a different opinion.

Kev


----------

