# Vehicle stickers required wef March 31?



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It appears (if the RAC is correct) that foreign registered vehicles will require an emissions sticker from the end of March this year for certain French cities including Paris, Lyon and Grenoble.........

RAC information page about Crit'Air

This is the first that I have heard about this new requirement.....

Another link to the same thing;

Crit'Air details

It has also been mentioned in the Daily Mirror apparently (but I do not read it).

Others may care to comment....

Dave


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## blondel (Jun 12, 2005)

Its in the Telegraph as well!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ts-face-pollution-fines-paris-car-windscreen/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Our MH would require a Crit'Air 4 sticker as it was manufactured in 2003, our car would require a Crit'Air 3 as it is 2008, and ye it applies to ALL vehicles not just Foreign registered ones, but it does talk about going INTO Paris - so if you only use the Rue Horrifique it would probably not apply, I have yet to locate the definition of "in" Paris......

Definitive page BUT all in "foreign" at present - English language page to be launched on February 1st.

French Government page

This page covers ALL EU countries and cities and gives advance notification of restrictions. Useful to bookmark/subscribe IMO.

Dave


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Presumably when all the other countries catch up we will have to convert to A Class MHs for all the stickers on the windscreen!:surprise:


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

A fairly straight forward explanation in the Mail.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...aris-introduces-new-eco-sticker-vehicles.html

Davy


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## ramblefrog (Jun 28, 2010)

*Law change for UK drivers in French cities*

Windscreen stickers which show a vehicle's emissions levels have become a legal requirement in several key French cities including Paris.
Sorry if this has been discussed before but does anyone have any other information? Thanks


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

ramblefrog said:


> Windscreen stickers which show a vehicle's emissions levels have become a legal requirement in several key French cities including Paris.
> Sorry if this has been discussed before but does anyone have any other information? Thanks


http://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/law-change-for-uk-drivers-in-french-cities/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

This page is better as it lists the 22 cities that this relates to;

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...aris-introduces-new-eco-sticker-vehicles.html

I posted this a few days ago as it is of concern, for Paris the stickers will be required if you venture inside the A86 motoway - the outer ring road.

The Gendarme have bee told to "be lenient" to start with, but from our experience GB registered vehicles will most likely be targeted as they are easy to spot and stop....

Don't forget that if you DO get stopped you MUST put your high vis vest on BEFORE getting out - if you don't that is an instant 90€ fine.... so they may be lenient on one thing but still get 90€ instantly........

Dave

This was the other thread;

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/13...vehicle-stickers-required-wef-march-31-a.html


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

There used to be a "Follow this thread" before but I can't find it now.
So I have to post to follow and replies. Thanks Dave and Peter.

Ray.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Why isn't there an EU wide accepted standard and badge system for this? Presumably the French system will use the same classification as the now years old German one.

The way things are going we are going to have 2 windscreens to fit all the stickers on :laugh:

Dick


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

and why cannot the LEZ incorporate the same system and remove the single £200 per day charge if you do not comply - it is just extortion IMO, Boris said he would look at it when he took over as Mayor, sadly he never got round to it.... he was always too busy hanging around....






Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Glandwr said:


> Why isn't there an EU wide accepted standard and badge system for this? Presumably the French system will use the same classification as the now years old German one.
> 
> The way things are going we are going to have 2 windscreens to fit all the stickers on :laugh:
> 
> Dick


Dick

I think you have a misconception about the EU

EU stands for European *Union, not Unity*.

By Union I understand it to mean 'Trade Union', protecting the rights of Commisioners, Civil Servants and other Acolytes jobs, salaries and expenses in Brussels and the rest of the EU entities.

Am I wrong?

Geoff


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> Dick
> 
> I think you have a misconception about the EU
> 
> ...


I couldn't possibly comment Geoff :laugh:

Dick


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Glandwr said:


> I couldn't possibly comment Geoff :laugh:
> 
> Dick


Oh Dick, it is not like you to be so shy and retiring - go on, give it a blast.:laugh:

You know you want to.

Geoff


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

There was a thread on here previously about these stickers and the one I ordered for my French registered van should be sitting in my post box as I ordered it online and paid the fee of 4.18 euros. I haven't been home but will check when I get there! 

I did however receive an email confirming that they were sending an Orange 3 vignette for my 2007 registered diesel van.


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

[QUOTE=Penquin;2445945

The Gendarme have bee told to "be lenient" to start with, but from our experience GB registered vehicles will most likely be targeted as they are easy to spot and stop....

Don't forget that if you DO get stopped you MUST put your high vis vest on BEFORE getting out - if you don't that is an instant 90€ fine.... so they may be lenient on one thing but still get 90€ instantly........

hi Dave, thanks for that, but I've never seen a Gendarme in hi-vis, always a blue jump suit, so both statements are very relevant 

curlyboy


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## MrWez (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's a link to the original thread http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/130-france-touring/200746-paris-pollution-stickers.html


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Another update on something relating to this, our local paper has announced that the ring road around Bordeaux now has a maximum speed limit of 70kph, this is due to local pollution, so just be aware. The paper did say it is a temporary restriction but does not say how long it will last..... That of course, may be weather related.

Simply be aware that the French authorities can do exactly the same as the UK one's with the "smart motorways" and "variable speed limits" which if displayed on the circular red background are compulsory.

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks Dave. It was the Bordeaux ring road where I got 'flashed' speeding last March coming back from Madrid. At that time it was 90kmph mostly but a few places down to 70kmph. And thats where I made the mistake of overtaking a truck just before pulling off heading north. 
We will be doing a similar trip back early March again this year returning home via Bergerac. 

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

This is the English Language site for applying for your sticker;

Cert'Air application in English

it was launched today I believe....

The English is "interesting" too.....

Good luck, including postage it will cost 4.80€.

Dave


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

There is no classification for "camping car" on the submission form, only "private car" or "goods vehicle >3500kg."

So is a M/H a private car?????


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

gaspode said:


> There is no classification for "camping car" on the submission form, only "private car" or "goods vehicle >3500kg."
> 
> So is a M/H a private car?????


Ken, I did say the English is interesting..... if it is below 3.5t then it can be described as a car, if above then it is a lorry, our MH is classified as a "caravan" - don't ask why, the Prefecture issues the document under the instructions of them in Paris who supposedly know what they are doing.....

How many spelling mistakes did you spot then?

Dave


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Penquin said:


> How many spelling mistakes did you spot then?
> 
> Dave


I can't say that I counted them Dave, as a long standing member of this forum I've become so accustomed to spelling mistakes that I don't seem to notice them any more.:wink2:


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Can I ask if anyone has worked out what the serial number is, the vin number perhaps? And is the certificate of registration the V5? Equally does one put down the brand as Hymer or Fiat.

I look forward to someone successfully applying so that I can process an application with some confidence.

Davy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

On the French site it explains it very concisely with a small 'I' or info tab.
It indicates which letter or number on the Carte Grise or log book should be used.
No I have't done it yet but will as soon as we return home.

Ray.


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

Worth noting that Rouen is on the list of cities planning to introduce it - probably more mhs go through Rouen than Paris. Also Cote Basque-Adour, which I guess may cover the N10 near Bayonne??


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

OK well I have tried and failed so far...... one of my problems is that our certificate was issued in the UK originally but then reissued in France when we reregistered, that option is not available so I am currently using the French reg no. and the UK certificate BUT it requires a .jpg or .png rather than a .pdf for the certificate.......

so I will have to try again - ours is Euro3 so I managed that, I used the VIN number as the certificate number BUT there is also the option of using the Euro certificate number..... so that is unclear.

there are 5 options for the vehicle; cars, light commercial vehicles >3.5t, motorcycles, mopeds, trucks >3.5t (buses and coache) (not my spelling or typing mistake!).

So not completed yet as I have to now convert from a .pdf to a .jpg or .png.....

I will keep you updated how things go.....

Dave


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> OK well I have tried and failed so far...... one of my problems is that our certificate was issued in the UK originally but then reissued in France when we reregistered, that option is not available so I am currently using the French reg no. and the UK certificate BUT it requires a .jpg or .png rather than a .pdf for the certificate.......
> 
> so I will have to try again - ours is Euro3 so I managed that, I used the VIN number as the certificate number BUT there is also the option of using the Euro certificate number..... so that is unclear.
> 
> ...


Managed to order one today for my UK registered van. Told the scanner to scan as jpeg, chose that file to download on the application form and it all went quite easily. Have received an email acknowledgement and now await receipt of the sticker.

Mike


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

The hardest thing I found was trying to get a file less than 200kb, ended up as Black and white Jpeg at 160kb.
Also used the Vin as the Serial Number but then I read the FAQs and it is the V5 document No so we shall see


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Also just ordered.

As my m/h is under 3.5 tonne I used the private car category, and also used the VIN number as the Serial Number. I shall see if they come back asking for the V5 document number instead.

as said, getting the file size below 200kb was a faff but got there using IrfanView resizing


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Although it is an English language site (and it treats English as well as the Americans do, there are more spelling mistakes per page than I would ever have accepted while teaching - *mark with a red pen* and write them out three times at the back of the book please....), although it mixes English and French so instead of "Next" and "Back" you, at the bottom of the "English" page get "Suivant" and "Precedent"....

Sadly, it won't take our vehicles 'cos we are *NOT *foreign registered and *are *French registered and for that we MUST complete the French language page..... oh deep joy!

So, I am sorry I cannot advise you any further.... I managed to reduce our registration document to 63.5kb by changing the scanning to 100dpi rather than the normal 200dpi, so it may be worth looking at that, I did it as a .png file (although I do not have a clue what the difference is between a .png and a .jpg.........

So, you're on your own as far as advice from me is concerned, I'm out of it..... sorry.....

Dave


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## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

I have been searching through various sites regarding these stickers and so far have been unable to find the answer to my question which is - does the Paris sticker also cover travel in all the other cities requiring a pollution sticker? Sensibly one should cover all but who knows how the French operate.


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

charlieivan said:


> I have been searching through various sites regarding these stickers and so far have been unable to find the answer to my question which is - does the Paris sticker also cover travel in all the other cities requiring a pollution sticker? Sensibly one should cover all but who knows how the French operate.


Yes, they are issued by the French Government and other cities (and towns ?) will be using them. The term "Paris sticker" is a misnomer.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

charlieivan said:


> I have been searching through various sites regarding these stickers and so far have been unable to find the answer to my question which is - does the Paris sticker also cover travel in all the other cities requiring a pollution sticker? Sensibly one should cover all but who knows how the French operate.


it's not a Paris sticker per se, but for use throughout France where cities have enforced the process - not too many currently but likely to increase rapidly as is happening across Europe. I think any city in France with a population of more than 250,000 can enforce the ban


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

fatbuddha said:


> it's not a Paris sticker per se, but for use throughout France where cities have enforced the process - not too many currently but likely to increase rapidly as is happening across Europe. I think any city in France with a population of more than 250,000 can enforce the ban


Yes, since the question was asked, I have been reading up on it and I think other communities can pass a bye-law to introduce restricted zones. They can also offer favourable parking for the less-polluting vehicles.

This webpage will translate if you view it with google chrome

http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/Un-certificat-qualite-de-l-air,43566.html


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The list of 22 cities currently involved has been published.....

This is rhe link that I posted earlier, scroll down it and you will find a table with the 22 cities that are so far considering or have implemented such a restriction.

I strongly suspect that the introduction will happen rapidly....

Dave


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

If you're over 3.5T are you a truck?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It looks like it from the application, you are in the UK


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> It looks like it from the application, you are in the UK


Dave

I do not understand why you added the phrase 'you are in the UK'

The EU has adopted the UNECE classification of vehicles so they are treated the same in all EU countries.

Motor Caravans over 3.5t are classified as passenger carrying vehicles in Category 'M' - M2 for 3.5t - 5.0t and M3 for >5.0t, they are also treated as 'Special Purpose' and as such under para 2.5.1. 'with accomodation'.

Goods-carrying vehicles are in Category 'N'

I cannot see how a Motorcaravan can be a 'Truck' in any EU country.

Geoff


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> The EU has adopted the UNECE classification of vehicles so they are treated the same in all EU countries.
> 
> Geoff


But not necessarily so by all of the various agencies who have the powers to charge drivers for various service.

What a mess this is emission stuff is. Different stickers for different countries with varying rules of use determined at either local or central government.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> Dave
> 
> I do not understand why you added the phrase 'you are in the UK'
> 
> ...


Geoff,

how foolish to expect the French to follow EU guidelines..... :laugh2:

This is France, they can, and do, do what they want..... and NEVER follow EU guidelines unless it suits them.

I suspect that the French application uses different terminology as much of the English translation is rubbish, almost pidgin Franglais.......

My point is that in the UK, you are certified as a car (<3.5t) or a private hgv from memory..... if >3.5t I never had a tax disc issued saying Motorhome or Camping car or even M whatever it may be... or special purpose....

Maybe my memory is failing but that is how I remember it.....

But the French always do things as they want and only as they want, they only follow the EU if it suits them. Otherwise they ignore virtually all the EU issues.....

Our MH is registered in France as a "Caravane"..... 'nuff said....

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave 

What slightly concerns me is that at a later date they might charging for entry and charging a higher rate for 'Trucks', but I bet not for a French-registered 'Caravane'.

On the Fench Application form was there the category for Caravane >3.5t, separate from Camion?

Geoff


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Geoff,
> 
> Our MH is registered in France as a "Caravane"..... 'nuff said....
> 
> Dave


In the UK what a vehicle is registered as bears little or no bearing to its VED band.

Motorhomes are normally registered with body type 'Motor Caravan' and currently fall into either PLG or PHGV VED bands.

Incidentally the changes to VED that come into effect on 1st April 2017 could have a serious financial penalty for new registration sub 3500kg motorhomes , where the CO2 figure is stated on the C of C.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

rayc said:


> In the UK what a vehicle is registered as bears little or no bearing to its VED band.
> 
> Motorhomes are normally registered with body type 'Motor Caravan' and currently fall into either *PLG or PHGV VED bands. *
> 
> Incidentally the changes to VED that come into effect on 1st April 2017 could have a serious financial penalty for new registration sub 3500kg motorhomes , where the CO2 figure is stated on the C of C.


Ray

PHGV currently pays £165. PLG pays more, not sure of figure.

But we are discussing what the French might do in the future.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> On the Fench Application form was there the category for Caravane >3.5t, separate from Camion?
> 
> Geoff


_Non...._



nicholsong said:


> But we are discussing what the French might do in the future.
> 
> Geoff


I hate to be a pendant, but aren't we discussing what the French *ARE* doing now? this thread is surely about applying for the appropriate Cert'Air sticker to allow vehicles to be driven into French cities where appropriate.

What the French *MIGHT* do in the future is not relevant, neither have we any clue, it is reminiscent of other threads about the "Facts" of the Brexit agreement - we do not have a clue......

TFL MIGHT allow MH over 3.5t into the LEZ...... or introduce a reasonable daily charge which reflects the prices charged elsewhere....

But I won't hold my breath.....

Dave :wink2: :crying:


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

I think the French have got it right by looking at a copy of the V5. I recently was trying to get an insurance quote from Saga and they checked the online details from the DVLA site using the registration number and as it just says 3 axle rigid body and nothing about it being a motor caravan as stated on the V5, they were unable to help me with a quote.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave

What the French are doing now is to register vehicles and they are asking people to declare the category, one of which is >3.5t. This category would seem to be inclusive of all vehicles from 3.5t to 44t

It appears that the enabling legislation would enable local Administrations to later impose charges if the emissions did not meet standards.

It is possible that this charge could apply to all vehicles over 3.5t and, in order to deter larger vehicles, could be set quite high, since the initial registration system, being implemented now, does not distinguish between 7.5t, 12t and 18t vehicles, nor those used for leisure purposes. It has the potentially to be disproportionately unfair.



On a different tack, how will we know what areas of effected citys/towns will be included? Will there only be descriptions? or maps on the internet? Will there be signs at the entry points? If there are restrictions imposed on certain vehicles at times of high pollution, how will those be promulgated?

I also wonder what they would do if I send in my application as a Motor car, since my V5C does not have an entry at Para 'F.1 Max premissible Mass'. I might try it now - since I do not yet intend to travel into any of the cities currently on the system, or those pending.

Geoff


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## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

I take it that this charge is going to be a yearly charge so will the sticker run from the time it was purchased to that date 12 months hence or from say 1st January to 31st December?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

charlieivan said:


> I take it that this charge is going to be a yearly charge so will the sticker run from the time it was purchased to that date 12 months hence or from say 1st January to 31st December?


I as I understand it, this is just the cost for the sticker and to get the vehicle registered in the French system.

What they do about charging at a later date they are not revealing.

I personally think I will steer clear of the whole system until I can see what they are really up to. I presently have no need to go into French cities.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have this sneaky suspicion that Geoff may prove to be correct (not an uncommon experience with his level of understanding), we do not know and the French are certainly not saying;

whether this will become an annual event.

whether there will be supplementary charges a little way in the future (say after the Presidential elections later this year)

whether the playing field will remain level or whether they will suddenly impose a massive surcharge on UK registered vehicles after a Brexit (and I don't think there would be anything that the UK could do about it other than retaliate)

how the areas are to be delineated has not been explained on anything that I have seen, other than for Paris "inside the A86 ring road" - very vague.....

BUT, if you want to visit any of those currently 22 cities, surely the best plan would be to have the sticker and then park outside and never venture inside? Public transport does exist in those cities and often at a greater level of service than in many UK cities. OK we may not LIKE public transport for various reasons but..........

I reiterate, the French have a knack of doing what the French want and then argue about it afterwards.... think speed cameras, breathalysers, speed limits lowered when raining, ban on A frames (copied Spain and Portugal)..... but none of these have been promulgated widely in advance.....

*"Liberte, Egalite et Fraternite"* but only if you are FRENCH. I was going to do the French words in Red White and Blue..... but then my brain cell kicked in over that choice..... and potential difficulties reading it.... :grin2:

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> *I have this sneaky suspicion that Geoff may prove to be correct *(not an uncommon experience with his level of understanding), we do not know and the French are certainly not saying;
> 
> *"Liberte, Egalite et Fraternite"* but only if you are FRENCH. I was going to do the French words in Red White and Blue..... but then my brain cell kicked in over that choice..... and potential difficulties reading it.... :grin2:
> 
> Dave


Dave

A very generous response to my post - thank you. (Some people might have argued their corner.)

Geoff


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

A bit like Geoff I don't tend to venture into cities in the Mh, but what about my little 1996 125cc scooter - maybe banned. Think I too will wait a while and see what emerges.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Gretchibald said:


> A bit like Geoff I don't tend to venture into cities in the Mh, but what about my little 1996 125cc scooter - maybe banned. Think I too will wait a while and see what emerges.


It is OK issung stickers, but where would some two-wheelers stick them - if they have no front surface? Does the website give the info?

I suppose Traffic Police will know which models are pre-the banned date.

Geoff


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## MrWez (Sep 25, 2011)

nicholsong said:


> It is OK issung stickers, but where would some two-wheelers stick them - if they have no front surface? Does the website give the info?
> 
> I suppose Traffic Police will know which models are pre-the banned date.
> 
> Geoff


Geoff,

There's a video on the application site which briefly shows the sticker being applied to the forks of a motorcycle, I'm guessing the sticker just has to be visible somewhere on the vehicle.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I am not sure how easy it is to recognise the age from a distance on French plates, other than if they are very old.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> I am not sure how easy it is to recognise the age from a distance on French plates, other than if they are very old.


Dave

I just meant recognition from the design and appearance of the model relating to the year. Admittedly some models might span the years before and after the cut-off, but even the colour schemes might differentiate the years.

Also, as per MrWez, the sticker wrapped round a fork might be hard to spot, especially after a few kms of collecting road dirt.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

but, frankly is a small motorbike going to be as polluting as a lorry? Or a bus? Or even a diesel train......?

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> but, frankly is a small motorbike going to be as polluting as a lorry? Or a bus? Or even a diesel train......?
> 
> Dave


Dave

As you have said elsewhere the French do what they want:wink2::laugh:

Geoff


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Anybody any the wiser what the Serial Number is?

I have 3 numbers:
VIN
Document Ref number (11 digits)
Another number in a circle on front page, along with V5C(NI) above and 7/10 below

Which to choose?

I've also realised I haven't changed the address from Apr 2015 :-(


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Re Euro Standard - does it actually say on the V5 or do you just go by the year of manufacture - 2007 therefore |Euro 4?


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## Landyman (Apr 3, 2010)

I have submitted my application today, just in case we stray inside one of their zones.
I am assuming the stickers are just to identify the class of vehicle so that the correct charges can be applied once restrictions are in force to reduce pollution.

I first looked, via a link on another forum, at one website with a form to complete where the vehicle types were choices on a drop down menu. The first choice was 'car/campervan', followed by several other choices for trucks of different weights and buses.
When I went to the official French government site the choices were different, private cars, trucks <3.5t, >3.5t etc.
Having seen the first form I listed my 4.5t van as a 'Private car'.
For serial No. - Vin No.
For Brand - Fiat
For Trade Name - Carthago
For Euro Standard - Euro 5
For CO 2 emissions - 0, as there is nothing on the V5

It will be interesting to see what comes back.

Richard.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

The FAQs on the site say the serial number is the document ref number, ie the number at the foot of the second page.
Didn't read that until after I had submitted it with the VIN number as the serial number


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## Landyman (Apr 3, 2010)

pete4x4 said:


> The FAQs on the site say the serial number is the document ref number, ie the number at the foot of the second page.
> Didn't read that until after I had submitted it with the VIN number as the serial number


Oops!
Oh well, too late now. Just have to wait and see what happens now.
They say there is no refund if the form is filled in incorrectly but it isn't a fortune to lose so who cares?

Richard.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thats not the point Richard.
Actually on the French site it gives a small 'i' and clicking on that shows exactly which number and line on the Carte Grise to enter.
I guess the French can't offer info on foreign log books and other reg docs as they differ so.

Start here ..https://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/simulation

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We are NOT applying at the moment as a) we are unlikely to take the MH into the centre of the 22 cities currently involved and b) we are wary of giving the details "just in case" they suddenly decide to slap a charge on as they describe the vehicles as "more polluting" - nothing would surprise me......

I see little point in giving them such details until it is essential, if they really want to find them then our French registered MH is already in their database so why highlight it?

IF I was in the UK..... I would be wary since effectively by so doing you have cut DVLA out of the loop if you happen to stray over a speed limit..... they would then have the registration details in THEIR database and do not need to approach DVLA for the registered keepers name and address - they have it and could easily take action direct......

Just a thought.....

Dave


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Penquin said:


> We are NOT applying at the moment as a) we are unlikely to take the MH into the centre of the 22 cities currently involved and b) we are wary of giving the details "just in case" they suddenly decide to slap a charge on as they describe the vehicles as "more polluting" - nothing would surprise me......
> 
> I see little point in giving them such details until it is essential, if they really want to find them then our French registered MH is already in their database so why highlight it?
> 
> ...


I too thought that but I will be driving through Rouen & Lyon on the autoroute at some point next year so dont see how to avoid it. I have been flashed in France so we shall see.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

pete4x4 said:


> I too thought that but I will be driving through Rouen & Lyon on the autoroute at some point next year so dont see how to avoid it. I have been flashed in France so we shall see.


Hopefully you will eventually be able to view which areas come into the zone.

We often head south via the outskirts of Rouen coming in from the Northeast on the A28/N28 and exiting on the D6015 to the south, a well known transit route but sods law probably dictates that part of that will come into the zone (?). :sad:

Pete


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Landyman said:


> ...I first looked, via a link on another forum, at one website with a form to complete where the vehicle types were choices on a drop down menu. The first choice was 'car/campervan', followed by several other choices for trucks of different weights and buses.
> When I went to the official French government site the choices were different, private cars, trucks <3.5t, >3.5t etc.
> Having seen the first form I listed my 4.5t van as a 'Private car'....


I did a bit of digging around re car/lorry choice and found the following in some EU legislation: see this page

If you start at Passenger cars (*M1*) you'll see what I think is probably relevant info but I'm blowed if I can make sense of it. There's also info further down the page reagarding 'lorry' and 'van'.

I assume the info applies to France as well as UK. Here's the bit on the car classification:

1. Passenger cars (*M1*)
AA Saloon
ISO Standard 3833-1977, term No 3.1.1.1, but including also vehicles with more than four side windows.
AB Hatchback
Saloon (AA) with a hatch at the rear end of the vehicle.
AC Station wagon
ISO Standard 3833-1977, term No 3.1.1.4 (estate car)
AD Coupé
ISO Standard 3833-1977, term No 3.1.1.5
AE Convertible
ISO Standard 3833-1977, term No 3.1.1.6
AF Multi-purpose vehicle
Motor vehicle other than those mentioned in AA to AE intended for carrying passengers and their luggage or goods, in a single compartment. However, if such a vehicle meets both of the following conditions:
(i)
 the number of seating positions, excluding the driver, is not more than six;
a 'seating position' shall be regarded as existing if the vehicle is provided with 'accessible' seat anchorages;
'accessible' shall mean those anchorages, which can be used. In order to prevent anchorages being 'accessible', the manufacturer shall physically obstruct their use, for example by welding over cover plates or by fitting similar permanent fixtures which cannot be removed by use of normally available tools; and
(ii)
P - (M + N × 68) > N × 68
where:
P
=
technically permissible maximum laden mass in kg
M
=
mass in running order in kg
N
=
number of seating positions excluding the driver.
*This vehicle is not considered to be a vehicle of category M1.*

I don't understand the logic of their test for weight but it would seem if your van is capable of carrying twice the number of passengers you have belts for then you're not classed as a car (M1).

Sorry it hasn't copy/pasted well, but you can find it in the link above.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> IF I was in the UK..... I would be wary since effectively by so doing you have cut DVLA out of the loop if you happen to stray over a speed limit..... they would then have the registration details in THEIR database and do not need to approach DVLA for the registered keepers name and address - they have it and could easily take action direct......
> 
> Just a thought.....
> 
> Dave


Dave

A valid comment.

Since they only want a scanned copy of the V5C it *would be possible* to scan it into a file, alter the address, and then re-scan that file ready to attach it to the application.

Another possibility would be to redact the address and see if they notice and object.

I am not recommending either course, but it does seem as though their system is open to such ruses.

The other possibility is that after the issue of the first sticker one genuinely changes addresses, but I doubt whether the system requires one to notify of the change to their administrator.

After further thought, since they have left these gaps, either they are incompetent or they do not propose to use the system to chase fines. With peoples change of addresses happening normally the database would soon become out-of-date.

Geoff


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Anybody seen any stickers yet, both mine still 'in progress'?


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Same here, nothing yet.


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

Mine must be in my letter box which I hope to find when I eventually return home.

I received this email (as translated by google) on 10th December:

"Dear,

Please kindly find attached your invoice for your air quality control certificate for registered vehicle XX-123-XX.

Your certificate will be sent shortly by mail to the address where the vehicle is registered. 
In the meantime, this bill allows you to justify your approach and classification of your vehicle.

Please accept, Madam, Sir, our best regards."

Actually, I am a bit worried as I think the letter box may also contain notification of a speeding offence! The fine doubles up if you don't pay it in time!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh dear, _est ce que le grand frere_?

It will be interesting to see if there is a follow up as they now have details for you.....

Do keep us informed.....

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Bloody French jobsworth postie.
We told our 'factrice' we would be away for two months on holiday. 
I bought an update SD card for my VW Sat Nav and as the seller indicated it would be delivered between 6th. to 12th March I thought no more about it.
But I am told the factrice left a signed for note saying my packet had arrived and would be sent back to the local post office before being returned to sender. I was obviously not there to sign.
Neither my keyholder or the couple living on our land in their van were allowed to sign for the packet for me. She knows our situation and is just being bluddy awkward. 
Bang goes next Christmas bonus.

Ray.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

The website says both my applications have been processed and I have had an email for my Jeep which I applied for on the 14th, but no email for the motorhome applied for on the 1 Feb.
Its interesting that the email sais the invoice is enough proof until the sticker turns up.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, me too Pete. 
Only done one car so far and will see what that produces.

Ray.


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## mcpezza (Aug 16, 2008)

Sticker arrived yesterday.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> So not completed yet as I have to now convert from a .pdf to a .jpg or .png.....
> 
> I will keep you updated how things go.....
> 
> Dave


Working my way through this one :roll: to do the above Dave, simply do Ctrl+prt scrn or similar, to do a screen dump, if you download postimage which is free, you can select the area to grab.

I think I must have missed where the link to any certificate is :roll:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes, my copy of payment and cert came via an attachment in pdf. Clicked print and voila done.


Ray.


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## oxford-wanderer (May 20, 2008)

pete4x4 said:


> Anybody seen any stickers yet, both mine still 'in progress'?


Mine arrived last week.:smile2:

Paul


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

With reference to the registration certificate.
Can I just photograph it with my pad and attach it.
Also do I have to send a copy of all pages or just the front page.
I'm in Portugal and starting to think k of the journey home next month. Although I try to avoid going anywhere near French cities the odd navigation error sometimes takes us closer than we like!


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm sure I've seen that some people have got away with a camera photo, although personally I scanned it. Key thing is the maximum size of the attachment - I think it's 200Mb (may be 100?) so use fairly low resolution.

It's page 2 of the V5C you need to copy.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I've emailed the form with a photo attached of the reg certificate and had an acknowledgement back. So fingers crossed and waiting.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

That is what I did. I have had the email approval which can be used in the interim and am awaiting the delivery of the certificate proper. So I imagine yours should be fine. They emailed me within a couple of days, so I assume you will hear quite quickly.

Davy


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Both my stickers arrived last week, it looks like the process is much slicker now, some people appear to have received stickers within 10 days. I should have waited as it took 6 weeks for mine to arrive lol


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## teljoy (Jul 4, 2005)

Solwaybuggier said:


> I'm sure I've seen that some people have got away with a camera photo, although personally I scanned it. Key thing is the maximum size of the attachment - I think it's 200Mb (may be 100?) so use fairly low resolution.
> 
> It's page 2 of the V5C you need to copy.


I have got my receipt and advice that the sticker is in the post. I'm sure that I remember that the maximum size of the pdf or jpeg had to be 400kb. Definitely not megabytes.

Terry


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## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

pete4x4 said:


> Both my stickers arrived last week, it looks like the process is much slicker now, some people appear to have received stickers within 10 days. I should have waited as it took 6 weeks for mine to arrive lol


Have you now got actual stickers that you can fix to the windscreen? All I have at the moment is an A4 sheet comprising of an invoice and a copy of the crit-aire logo at the bottom of the page ( yellow band 3)


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

It will come through the post fairly soon Charlie - it'll have been posted on the date of your receipt.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

charlieivan said:


> Have you now got actual stickers that you can fix to the windscreen? All I have at the moment is an A4 sheet comprising of an invoice and a copy of the crit-aire logo at the bottom of the page ( yellow band 3)


Yep real sticky stickers that stick on the inside of the windscreen, orange for the Jeep, Yellow for the motorhome


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## JayBe (Jul 17, 2010)

pete4x4 said:


> Yep real sticky stickers that stick on the inside of the windscreen, orange for the Jeep, Yellow for the motorhome


This does not make sense, I have a 2014 Rapido 640, and the acknowledgement email was received yesterday showing that an orange group 3 sticker has been issued, as per the colours shown on the crit-air website. Elsewhere someone has called the group 3 a yellow sticker. Also I note that you have a 2012 Bailey, is it under 3500kg ?


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

JayBe said:


> This does not make sense, I have a 2014 Rapido 640, and the acknowledgement email was received yesterday showing that an orange group 3 sticker has been issued, as per the colours shown on the crit-air website. Elsewhere someone has called the group 3 a yellow sticker. Also I note that you have a 2012 Bailey, is it under 3500kg ?


My 2013-reg (I think 2012 manufactured) Bailey Approach 740 has been classed as yellow 2 - it is plated at 3500 kg though.


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## JayBe (Jul 17, 2010)

Solwaybuggier said:


> My 2013-reg (I think 2012 manufactured) Bailey Approach 740 has been classed as yellow 2 - it is plated at 3500 kg though.


Hi Solway

So what class was applied for, was it a Private Car? It is about time that DVLA made a clear classification with the increase of motorhomes.

JayBe


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes, from memory Private Car (away so can't check fully) - under 3.5 so none of the other options seem appropriate.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Interesting post from a member on Autosleeper-ownersforum asking for info on when he was allowed into Paris.

I have turned up this link.

https://www.crit-air.fr/en/informat...onmental-zones-zcr/paris-zone-zcr.html#c26598

You do have to follow a further link to the city of interest. For instance today vehicles with stickers E to 5 are permitted.

Might be worth book marking.

Davy


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

JayBe said:


> This does not make sense, I have a 2014 Rapido 640, and the acknowledgement email was received yesterday showing that an orange group 3 sticker has been issued, as per the colours shown on the crit-air website. Elsewhere someone has called the group 3 a yellow sticker. Also I note that you have a 2012 Bailey, is it under 3500kg ?


Yep under 3500kg, is Euro 5 therefore yellow group2


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## MrWez (Sep 25, 2011)

I ordered my sticker and it arrived within a week, I've heard tales of it taking weeks so I was well pleased.

Bailey 745 Euro 5 under 3500kg - yellow group 2.


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

Ordered online Tuesday 9th June, email received today 11th June. Looks like they have ironed out a load of issues. The site now asks for VIN. Still need to reduce the file size to 400kb which is a bit of a PIA but works. Await the actual sticker in the post but good to go with the emailed certificate.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

June.??

Ray.


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

raynipper said:


> June.??
> 
> Ray.


Haha getting a little excited about June travel plans. Yes well spotted I meant May..........................


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

The process is now really slick. Ordered online last Tuesday, email confirmation delivered Thursday & sticker delivered this morning, Monday. That's 6 days in total.............pretty slick.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The price has dropped w.e.f. 1st March to 3.62€ including postage to Metropolitan France (it obviously may e more to the UK) and it only needed the reg. number and date of original registration to be entered before payment details. That may be easier as they are both French registered.

The area of Fance that is now liable to be affected is large and incudes many autoroutes and the main N roads that are used for trips to e.g. Spain. These areas will requre the stickers if there is "higher level pollution" - a situation that we encountered on the Toulouse ring rad last November when the restrictions were clearly displayed although we did not have the requisite stickers (they were not required then but are now....)

So if you have not applied it may e worth doing so if you are contemplating driving in France - they may well enforce this more heavily as it will be easy to pick up vehciles without such stickers.......


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