# heating while driving



## stepps110 (Jan 20, 2008)

The heater in my Hymer is dismal, only just manages to keep the screen clear never mind actually warming the passengers!
What are the rules, if any, on using the gas heating while driving?

thanks


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

stepps110 said:


> The heater in my Hymer is dismal, only just manages to keep the screen clear never mind actually warming the passengers!
> What are the rules, if any, on using the gas heating while driving?
> 
> thanks


My Lunar Premier was 'designed' so the the Truma 6000 could work when travelling and I believe that new Swifts are also designed to do so.
In my case the only design in addition to the normal boiler was a 'Secumotion?' regulator, { the type with a green button}, and a high pressure hose between the bottle and the regulator that also had an automatic cutoff with a green button fitted at the bottle end.

Idon't know what actual laws exist but you must not refuel with the boiler alight!!


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## stepps110 (Jan 20, 2008)

that makes sense, I had not heard of those regulators.
But I just have the bog standard ones.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Have a look through this;

www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-56565-.html


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## Carper (Aug 15, 2007)

stepps110 said:


> The heater in my Hymer is dismal, only just manages to keep the screen clear never mind actually warming the passengers!
> What are the rules, if any, on using the gas heating while driving?
> 
> thanks


Check your heater out. I could fry eggs on our dashboard it gets so hot

Doug


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

Our heater works fine no problem. As regards gas heating on the road, secumotion is the way to go. Easy job to get cut-out valve fitted.

Sal


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

I just hang a blanket/throw from the luton bed so it hangs behind the head rest and is about a couple of feet from the floor.

Very effective.

Freddiebooks


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## stepps110 (Jan 20, 2008)

thank you all, its amazing what you learn.
I know my heater is not right, but more to do with the direction control, its never a problem in the summer.....


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Ours is the sme as Stepps110. Our heater is pathetic also, if you are parked for a while with the engine running or in a traffic jam it heats the cab but as soon as you get going the cab cools down. I think others have complained about the Fiat Ducato heater.
Cheers Sid


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

The two fiat ducato's that I had were very drafty (especially if a lorry overtook me)

I found cold air coming up inside the pillars behind the front doors near the bottom seat belt mountings so I filled the void with foam also put packing tape on the front door vents on the edge of the doors

Its not an immediate fix but how about fitting a heater matrix in the rear that runs off the engine coolant system the same as the dash heater matrix with a switch on the dash to turn on/off the additional fan

(CAK tanks sell them:- http://www.caktanks.co.uk/)

fit it in one of the seat base units & plumb it in with car heater hose to the engine coolant system - (fit s in series with the dash heater pipes) made a big difference on one of my campers!

for campers with a wet rear heating system e.g ALDE add a heat exchanger between the engine & the ALDE system to heat the rear up while driving


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

We invested in a 12 volt electric blanket from Maplin last winter. It is big enough to tuck myself up in while he drives and keeps me snug as a bug! Can't find it on the website, but not much spare time to trawl through today, sorry


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> The heater in my Hymer is dismal, only just manages to keep the screen clear never mind actually warming the passengers!


Have you definitely got enough coolant in the system ? If your heater's not working there's something causing it not to work IYSWIM.

D.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I used to have a Hymer based on Ducato base (1996 vintage) and the heater in that was about as much use a chocolate teapot !!

I tried (almost) everything mentioned here and it made sod all difference. 

I reckon the best bet is as suggested to either run another heater off the coolant or an additional 12v heater.

I would be VERY wary about adapting your current LPG heater to run whilst on the move. The vent is on the side of the vehicle and I suspect that there will be far to much draught whilst under way so it will be forever blowing out. My old Hymer used to blow out when parked up in windy conditions !!


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

I don't know how old your Hymer is, but there is always the chance that someone could have removed the engine thermostat.
Sometimes they play up and a quick fix is to take it out

Alan H


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

_Its not an immediate fix but how about fitting a heater matrix in the rear that runs off the engine coolant system the same as the dash heater matrix with a switch on the dash to turn on/off the additional fan _

Almost identical to the factory fitted system in my X2/50.

It works so well that after 15 minutes the dog strips down to his boxers and we have to turn it off again. 8)


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi there,

We too have a 99 Fiat based Hymer, (LHD), and I am always feeling a draft by my left foot. Although the Fiat heater isn't as efficient as it could be, it is usually ample. 
This particular Hymer model though also has a Truma E2400 cab heater, which really does make all the difference. It belts out the heat when needed.



Mrplodd said:


> I would be VERY wary about adapting your current LPG heater to run whilst on the move. The vent is on the side of the vehicle and I suspect that there will be far to much draught whilst under way so it will be forever blowing out. My old Hymer used to blow out when parked up in windy conditions !!


Our Truma Combi boiler C3002, is also very good, and according to the Hymer manuals, both these heaters are TUV approved, and are *"designed" * to operate whilst the vehicle is in motion, and the draw their gas from a bulk tank. In winter we arrive nice and warm, with a tank of hot water too.

For me, this would normally "go against the grain", but it's been published as safe to do so, and approved by a much respected German "standards" authority. TUV's UK website

I am informed that the system has an automatic shut off valve, should there be a sudden drop in gas pressure, eg, a pipe fracture.

What does the OP's heating manufacturer's manuals advise?

HTH,

Jock.


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

our 1998 ducato cab is very draughty whilst on the move .especially these cold winter days. our quick fix and it works well is draw the habitation curtains across at the back of cab seats and this stops the draughts and cab warms up lovely., but then you are only using your side rear view mirrors. 8)


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Waeco make a retrofit heated seat pack 
(could be ideal if your seats have been upholstered by the converter as you may be able to fit these between the covers and the original seat fabric, swivel seat bases may cause some minor difficulties though ?)

they are on ebay for £59

ebay waeco heated seat kit

dont know what they are like but I think Waeco stuff is usually good quality

or for £99 with some other heated seat options here :-
conrad


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Not of any help to you, but the Winnebago I recently sold had a system which would take the engine heat and send it to the rear of the RV when driving.

By the time you got to site the whole vehicle was as warm as toast. 

It could also be used for heating the hot water tank so I always had a full tank of hot water on arrival.

Shame that European vehicles cannot do the same!

Regards

Chris


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

"Shame that European vehicles cannot do the same!" 

Oh yes they can,its just most British ones that can't :lol: . :wink:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

sersol said:


> Oh yes they can,its just most British ones that can't :lol: . :wink:


Nice one Gary. :lol:

Jock.


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## davebbenelli (Sep 27, 2005)

*Draughty Cabs.*

There seems to have been a lot of work done on this subject already...I've read as much of it as I can as I have a draughty 2000 model Ducato. I've tried all sorts and have come to the following conclusions...Taping up the door vents and working on the carpets and the seat belt apertures will all help - but not a great deal. The fact is the heater was designed to keep just a cab warm - And when you're rolling down the motorway most of the draughts we feel are coming from the cold air behind us as we're asking the cab heater to heat the whole van. In the case of my Lunar Roadstar - there's a lovely slicing cold draught comes into the van (About ankle height) from the fridge vent and it works it's way forward and made me think it was the draughty cab!! When I drew the curtains across just to check it out - The draught almost disappeared. 
Sadly I think some draughts are inevitable unless the habitation area is heated seperately
Happy Hunting
Dave


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: Draughty Cabs.*



davebbenelli said:


> There seems to have been a lot of work done on this subject already...I've read as much of it as I can as I have a draughty 2000 model Ducato. I've tried all sorts and have come to the following conclusions...Taping up the door vents and working on the carpets and the seat belt apertures will all help - but not a great deal. The fact is the heater was designed to keep just a cab warm - And when you're rolling down the motorway most of the draughts we feel are coming from the cold air behind us as we're asking the cab heater to heat the whole van. In the case of my Lunar Roadstar - there's a lovely slicing cold draught comes into the van (About ankle height) from the fridge vent and it works it's way forward and made me think it was the draughty cab!! When I drew the curtains across just to check it out - The draught almost disappeared.
> Sadly I think some draughts are inevitable unless the habitation area is heated seperately
> Happy Hunting
> Dave


You could wear rigger's boots to keep your ankles snug and warm :wink:


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

JockandRita said:


> sersol said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yes they can,its just most British ones that can't :lol: . :wink:
> ...


Thanks Jock,TBH I'm a bit pi**ed off with some of the yank tank owners who seem to think that we "Euro"owners are second class motor homer's.
Some seem to think we all want huge RV's,when the truth is that we have no desire for such things (Dazzer springs to mind). Lets be proud we prefer quality not quantity,I believe you summed it up a while ago "I have a four seasons van not a summer house" :wink: 
Gary


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

sersol said:


> (Dazzer springs to mind).


Yep Gary, that's the one.



Sersol said:


> I believe you summed it up a while ago "I have a four seasons van not a summer house" Wink


Your memory is much better than mine Gary, and those close to me would say......that wouldn't be hard Jock. :lol:

As much as I would like a big Monaco, Windsor/Diplomat, we'd never have seen half the places we've been to, due to restricted access/weight limits.
We, (you and I that is), have European RVs. 
Apart from slideouts, there's very little we haven't got, that an ARV has, and they are designed and built in a country that experiences Baltic winters. Nuff said. :wink:

I don't think Chris was having a go, just possibly ignorant of the quality habitation in German spec and mainland Euro built MH's, especially the very efficient blown air heating, as opposed to the inefficient yank furnaces (There we go, back on topic). :wink:

Regards,

Jock.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Here's hoping the Germans do a large slide-out as standard by the time I need to buy one!

Dave
For the time being in a Brit panel van with rear heating on the move and hot water on tap as soon as we arrive


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi all bit confused with my gas pipe on my van,picked up my 2010 voyager 2 weeks ago,fitted to the reg and bottle was the gas pipe which says propane on it with the bullet end,also i got another pipe(butane i think) with a normal end (just a big nut on end instead of the bullet)also it has a green knob,now my reg has a green knob which i have to hold in for 3 secords when first turning the gas on,i know i got en-routing but why hasnt the propane pig tail got the green knob for safety,i only use propane gas.last week i changed the gas pipe to a gas flow quick release,was this wise,i do want to use the en-rout this time of year,please could some one advise thanks Matt :?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

hero said:


> Hi all bit confused with my gas pipe on my van,picked up my 2010 voyager 2 weeks ago,fitted to the reg and bottle was the gas pipe which says propane on it with the bullet end,also i got another pipe(butane i think) with a normal end (just a big nut on end instead of the bullet)also it has a green knob,now my reg has a green knob which i have to hold in for 3 secords when first turning the gas on,i know i got en-routing but why hasnt the propane pig tail got the green knob for safety,i only use propane gas.last week i changed the gas pipe to a gas flow quick release,was this wise,i do want to use the en-rout this time of year,please could some one advise thanks Matt :?


You really need a Propane hose which has the pressure release [green swithch] installed in it.


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

rayc said:


> hero said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all bit confused with my gas pipe on my van,picked up my 2010 voyager 2 weeks ago,fitted to the reg and bottle was the gas pipe which says propane on it with the bullet end,also i got another pipe(butane i think) with a normal end (just a big nut on end instead of the bullet)also it has a green knob,now my reg has a green knob which i have to hold in for 3 secords when first turning the gas on,i know i got en-routing but why hasnt the propane pig tail got the green knob for safety,i only use propane gas.last week i changed the gas pipe to a gas flow quick release,was this wise,i do want to use the en-rout this time of year,please could some one advise thanks Matt :?
> ...


Hi Rayc while do you think its round the other way,the bullet one has a sticker saying propane,do i need the bullet end for propane?thanks matt


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

hero said:


> [Hi Rayc while do you think its round the other way,the bullet one has a sticker saying propane,do i need the bullet end for propane?thanks matt


Well I never thought I could get confused over a Propane pigtail but I am :? .
Any chance of a photo of what you are trying to connect to what?

I am not sure what you mean by 'bullet' so best not to go any further until I know more.


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Tell me about it,on the end of the propane hose which goes into the gas bottle you got the big nut which then has a large looking bullet that sits inside the gas bottle housing,butane dont have this just the big nut,so on my butane hose for some reason ive got the green knob but not on the propane hose,Rayc i looked back at post you did last year and you put a picture of a gas pipe (propane)with a bullet end with a green safetyknob,cheers matt


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Then this is what you need. Note that the 90 degree elbow at the regulator end can be removed if you want a straight coupling.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

The heater on our 2005 ducato is abysmal and has been since day one.
We use mh for track days so set off early in the morning when its cold.
Funnily though on the way home it works fine and we have to turn the heat down.
Coolant level is fine.
Dave p


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I took the MH out for a run today in the Dorset sunshine. The temp inside was 10 degrees when I started. By using the cab heater and the auxillary under seat heater the temp was 20 degrees, even at the rear, within 15 miles. 
In my opinion the Fiat auxillary heater is very efficient and can't see why any MH based on the X250 would go for any other en route heating system .


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

rayc said:


> Then this is what you need. Note that the 90 degree elbow at the regulator end can be removed if you want a straight coupling.


Rayc thats the one i need but got butane instead with the green knob,cheers Matt.ps do you know whats herston camp site in swanage is like as we are going there on weds for a few days.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm not sure how good cab Ducato heaters are when the vehicle is new, but if they are good when new ,then you can improve yours ,by checking whether the normal engine running temp. is reached ,if it is not then 1st I would change the engine thermostat,(assuming you have enough coolant in the sysem ) BEWARE if you open up ?drain the coolant system it should be refilled perhaps "Bled " to make sure you have no airlocks in the system other problems can be kinked hoses, blocked pipes , blocked heater mattrix (heater radiator),heater controls /controlling directional air flow not moving /opening / closing properly,We put up a adjustable curtain rod behind seats and bought some cheap but matching as near as possible curtains in our new Rapido and what a difference it made to the cab area. If your not sure I would get it checked by a proffessional , especially if the engine is not running at the correct temp. as this could increase fuel consumtion Tony


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## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

if there is just 2 of us in the m/h we close the curtains behind the seats and use the normal heater when on the move but when the kids are in the back we have a switch behind the passenger seat that opens another matrix/fan which blows heat to the dinette area and rear passengers but would think if left on would heat the rear of the van for when we arrive on site


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Our 2000 Hymer Ducato heater works just fine in the cab. I've wondered why someone hasn't connected a tube from the cab heater to one of the habitation heater outlets that would then just distribute that heat to the rest of the MH.

The Hymer manual does say you can run the gas heater while driving. We don't because we don't have an auto shutoff valve. Got to get one.


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## oldenstar (Nov 9, 2006)

Never mind rear heating whilst on the move - I am worried about ours when we are static!

Left the heater (Truma C3002) on full the other day for about 2 hours only to find the inside temperature was just about 2 degrees more than outside .i.e. about 10 to 8.

Going back to Chelston yet again in January just before our trip but in case there is no improvement I have decided to book en route sites (to the Algarve), as we will need electric if the gas heating stays so puny.

Heater comes on, water gets hot, fan works slowly and hot air can be felt at the space outlets, but it never follows through to heat the van up properly- Damned annoying.

Grrr.

Paul


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

oldenstar said:


> Never mind rear heating whilst on the move - I am worried about ours when we are static!
> 
> Left the heater (Truma C3002) on full the other day for about 2 hours only to find the inside temperature was just about 2 degrees more than outside .i.e. about 10 to 8.
> 
> ...


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi just a thought are the blow heating pipes cornnected into the boiler out lets ok,ive had a couple worked their way out and i was losing the blow heating .cheers Matt


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Oldenstar

your problem with insufficient heat from your TRUMA may be a problem with the remote thermostat if you have one fitted

look for a small black dome shaped plastic thing about the diameter of a pound coin shaped like a large dome screw head with a couple of slots in it

they are usually near the habitation door..


If you do have one I would be inclined to disconnect it at the boiler and see if that makes a difference


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

If you don't mind spending about £1000 The Espacher diesel we had running directly from the fuel tank works very well we found.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

I think 'in motion' use of gas or diesel heating is the height of environmental delinquency. There is a massive amount of engine heat going a begging when driving along. ALL mh's should be fitted with a second heat exchanger in the habitation area. Our Rapido has such facility including a three speed fan which, if set to maximum heat and fan speed would toast bread which can be enjoyed in the 20°C plus habitation area arrival. 

Looking at the plumbing involved it should be a fairly inexpensive and straightforward DIY job to fit your own in a seat box using a heater matrix and fan sourced from a vehicle dissemblers.


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Jean-Luc said:


> I think 'in motion' use of gas or diesel heating is the height of environmental delinquency. .


To be a good Envoirmentalist , you should sell your Motorhome and stop needlessly poluting the planet , We Have !!ps. not for that reason though .


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

And that's what the Eberspacher diesel heating uses. The separate diesel heater only comes on if the engine coolant isn't hot 

Dave


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

tony50 said:


> Jean-Luc said:
> 
> 
> > I think 'in motion' use of gas or diesel heating is the height of environmental delinquency. .
> ...


Travelling 600 miles by mh only produces a fraction of carbon emission compared to travelling by plane (I read somewhere it's only 1/6th. of what's attributed to one person on a European flight)
Living in a mh uses only a fraction of the water and electricity compared to home/apartment/hotel.
If studied, living/travelling in a mh could possibly turn out to be more overall eco friendly that just staying at home.

Dave, didn't know about the workings of the Eberspacher.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well it is certainly true that in the UK it is greener to commute to work than work from home! 

Dave


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I wonder how much emmissions were used to get all those environmentalists to Copenhagen?


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> And that's what the Eberspacher diesel heating uses. The separate diesel heater only comes on if the engine coolant isn't hot
> 
> Dave


Unless I have missed some other quote on here a Espacher diesel heater fitted to heat the interior of a motorhome (same as they fit to trucks as night heaters in a cab ), is absolutely nothing to do with the engine /coolant , the only thing it has in common is you draw diesel to fuel the heater from the vehicle fuel tank ,sorry DAB but don't know where you got your info from .Having fitted and serviced lots of these.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Tony50

Webasto / eberspacher & I suspect other manufacturers produce fuel burning heaters (petrol or diesel ) that can either heat air which then is blown through ducting into the interior OR ones that heat water that can be fitted inline with the engine coolant system

In fact a lot of top end diesel cars have these as standard because the new diesel engines don't produce sufficient waste heat to heat the interior so they fit these as BOOSTER heaters to increase the temp of the water to the dash heater matrix (my mate had one on his Pilote Merc Sprinter camper that he wasn't even aware of)

I have a eberspacher (factory fitted) on my Sprinter that can be run as a heater booster when I am driving to add heat to the dash heater , ( I have just added a ALDE heat exchange so that now when diving I can also heat the rear ALDE system)

I can also switch it on via a switch on the dash or program it to start at a particular time to act as an engine / cab & windscreen preheater (without the engine running)

I find these so useful I have fitted one to my car!


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## doug285 (Apr 30, 2008)

tony50 said:


> DABurleigh said:
> 
> 
> > And that's what the Eberspacher diesel heating uses. The separate diesel heater only comes on if the engine coolant isn't hot
> ...


Is it safe to use an Eberspacher supplied from the diesel tank whilst on the move? I have one fitted in my Duetto, but can find no reference in the handbook to suggest if its safe or not.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Doug

What Eberspacher system do you have fitted to your Ducato ?
(do you have a model number)

was it fitted as part of the conversion ?


Generally I would say yes its ok to use on the move (if its been installed correctly to the Eberspacher instructions) as the unit itself & all its needs are external (fresh air in - exhaust gas out & diesel supply)


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, Doug, that's what it's been designed for  Great system, not cheap and you need to look after your batteries.

Dave


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

trek said:


> Hi Tony50
> 
> Webasto / eberspacher & I suspect other manufacturers produce fuel burning heaters (petrol or diesel ) that can either heat air which then is blown through ducting into the interior OR ones that heat water that can be fitted inline with the engine coolant system
> 
> ...


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Heaters*



tony50 said:


> trek said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tony50
> ...


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## doug285 (Apr 30, 2008)

trek said:


> Hi Doug
> 
> What Eberspacher system do you have fitted to your Ducato ?
> (do you have a model number)
> ...


Thanks trek, a slight correction, the vehicle is an Autosleeper Duetto on a Ford Chassis. (not a Ducato)
I don't have the model number to hand, but the unit is for heating the habitation area only(not hot water), I would assume that it was part of the original conversion done by Autosleepers.

I see no reason why it should not be use whilst on the move, but I stand to be corrected.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

doug285 said:


> I see no reason why it should not be use whilst on the move, but I stand to be corrected.


Hi Doug,

All the truck and coach Webastos & Eberspachers I have come across, operate either whilst on the move, and/or whilst stationary. They are totally safe, and are designed to operate as such.

Jock.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

trek said:


> Hi Tony50
> 
> In fact a lot of top end diesel cars have these as standard because the new diesel engines don't produce sufficient waste heat to heat the interior so they fit these as BOOSTER heaters to increase the temp of the water to the dash heater matrix


This is a fascinating situation, I know the internal combustion engine is becoming more and more efficient in how it burns it fuel and produced more and more output per unit of fuel, but how does it burn the fuel cooler. I always thought it was the energy release which created the power and that energy has always been released in the form of heat, less heat would surely mean less energy which seem to be a contradiction to the proposition that the more powerful/efficient engines of today produce less heat for a given power output.
My Rapido, on a 2.8 JTD gives about 25mpg and 146BHP, which is well up there in the efficiency stakes, will toast the occupants and the habitation area even while travelling during the worst of the current cold spell.

Perhaps the supplementary heating in modern cars is to facilitate a quicker warm up from cold for the comfort of passengers, but how does it increase economy as is often suggested, as the reduction of poor fuel consumption of the engine when cold is surely offset by the fuel burned by the heater.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, optimising this situation wrt the various factors involved isn't easy. But this gives an insight into the juggling:
http://www.idsc.ethz.ch/Research_Guzzella/Automotive_Applications/Auxiliary_Warm-up_Heaters

Dave


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Heater*

I have been on the motorway today with the motorhome and I don't think the heater is poor, I think the Fiat is so drafty, that is the problem. Drafts come through the door handles and seat belt mountings.

Russell


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