# Gas in France - problem solved?



## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

I've just got back from a couple of months in France and I now have a 10Kg gas cyclinder, available across France, that has a standard Calor screw fitting. Gas at 1.65€/1.75€ per Kg butane/propane and just 10€ deposit on the cylinder. Traded in my Cube against it and saved the deposit!

So, you can either use a standard Calor butane regulator (on the butance cylinders!) or connect either butane or propane directly to a 30mBar regulator (I'm using standard stainless Gaslow pipes) with no adaptor required.

If anyone wants any further details ask away.

Ray


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## ubuntu1 (Jan 14, 2008)

*Gas*

I'll ask, what type/brand of cylinder did you get? It sounds like an end to the problems in France.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Me too.

Come on Ray, spill the flageolets!! 8O :lol: :lol: 

Dave


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## eribiste (May 1, 2005)

Yes please Rayhook, I'm interested in this, do tell!


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## quartet (Jul 9, 2006)

Hi
I'm interested in you spilling the haricots as well
When I looked in the summer the bottles were cheap enough but wha t i couldnt find cheaply was the adapter which converted the "normal" screw in connection to the much larger french size.
Thanks
Barry


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Bessie560 said:


> Hi
> I'm interested in you spilling the haricots as well
> When I looked in the summer the bottles were cheap enough but wha t i couldnt find cheaply was the adapter which converted the "normal" screw in connection to the much larger french size.
> Thanks
> Barry


May be able to help there Barry - depending on what comes back from Ray.

Have to go out now, but will look in later.

Dave


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## T4ndy (Mar 22, 2007)

This feels a lot like Christmas ccasion9: 

I can see the present under the tree and I can't wait to open it  

Come on Ray tell us , don't be such a tease :lol:


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## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

*France - gas*

The cylinder is actually a Frangaz which probably won't mean very much to anyone - I'd never heard of them. The important bit is that they're sold by Intermarche stores throughout France as their own brand cylinders. They're cream in colour - just look in the racks. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the propane and the butane cylinders, other the price, is the printed collar around the neck.

The bottles are approx 300mm diameter and about 400mm to the shoulder; there's 'collar' on the top, similar to the one on the small Calor cylinders, protecting the gas outlet which is just like the Calor small butane cylinder. Be a bit careful as you can fit a Calor butane regulator to both the butane and propane cylinders - unlike in the UK.

Lastly, some Intermarche stores are giving away a free regulator with each new bottle. You have to sign an initial contract and that's it.

Any other info you need, ask away.

Ray


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## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

*France - gas. More*

I'll just add to the above that the screw thread on the gas outlet is identical to the one on the small Calor butane cylinders. No adaptor is needed - just add a standard Calor type butane regulator (from the UK) to the butance cylinder or connect either a propane or a butane cylinder directly to your 'Gaslow' high pressure pipe if you have 30mBar.

Ray


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi rayhook.

Thanks for the info. Will be looking for these bottles on our next france trip.

steve & ann ----------- teensvan


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Great stuff Ray - just the answer I was hoping for!!  

Now, assuming we want to use propane with the minimum of fuss and bother, get one of >> these << and it couldn't be easier.

Just screw it onto the French bottle and connect as usual with your propane pigtail. _(I have one already and it works perfectly with a German bottle which has the same connection.)_

It's very small and has an _*extra thick rubber washer, as many of the continental bottles need this or they may leak.*_

The 9 quid is a bit misleading though - it's nearer 15 by the time you have paid postage. Worth it though for the ease and convenience.  

Thanks again Ray.

Any chance you could write a brief article for the permanent "Members Motorhoming Guides" forum please. I'm sure a lot of members would appreciate it - and it will vanish out of site on this forum soon. Include my contribution if you like.

Cheers

Dave


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Great stuff Ray - just the answer I was hoping for!!
> 
> Now, assuming we want to use propane with the minimum of fuss and bother, get one of >> these << and it couldn't be easier.
> 
> ...


Dave,

Do you mean that all French propane bottles have the same thread? If not do you know which company's bottles do work on those adaptors?

Mike


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

cronkle said:


> Dave,
> Do you mean that all French propane bottles have the same thread? If not do you know which company's bottles do work on those adaptors?
> Mike


No Mike, I think they are just as varied as they are in this country. :roll:

I was hoping Ray had found a widely available bottle with the same thread as small Calor Butane bottles . . . and he has!!  

The gadget I am suggesting fits onto that thread perfectly, and converts the French bottle into a UK Calor Propane fitting, so you just connect with your existing pigtail. No faff or fuss at all - perfect!!

On our next trip I was planning to take the adapter and "offer it up" to French Bottles until I found a widely available source with the "Calor butane" fitting.

Ray has done that for me, so I owe him a pint or three!! :lol: :lol:

Dave

P.S. There are other companies doing bottles with that fitting, but I don't know which they are or how widely available and easy to find . . . which is really the key factor.

There are Intermarches everywhere, so that seems like the most convenient source we shall find!!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Had a quick Google and found these extracts. It looks even more widespread than Ray's first report!  

(Dated around 2006, so should be well under way by now!)

"Frangaz has already won contracts to supply Intermarché and Casino with butane and propane cylinders to be sold under the *Energaz and Casino* brands, respectively."

"Frangaz has signed its first contract with a French hypermarket group, Les Mousquetaires, which comprises French supermarket chains *Intermarche, Ecomarche, Bricomarche and Roady*."

"La signature d'un premier contrat avec le Groupement des Mousquetaires, pour la commercialisation de bouteilles GPL à leur marque, chez Intermarché, Ecomarché, Bricomarché et Roady ouvre à FRANGAZ des perspectives prometteuses."

"In the first half of 2007, Rubis Energie reinforced its presence in Europe by acquiring five LPG distribution businesses from Shell. Rubis Energie also teamed up with BP in France to form Frangaz, a joint venture designed to penetrate the market for LPG cylinders sold in hypermarkets and provide a novel approach to the lucrative retail sector. Frangaz has already won contracts to supply Intermarché and Casino with butane and propane cylinders to be sold under the Energaz and Casino brands, respectively."

As Ray said - problems solved!  

Dave


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Can I just add a caveat please?

I'm pretty certain that these bottles have the same fitting as the German propane bottles - normal thread as UK small butane bottle BUT the rubber sealing washer is on the bottle outlet NOT on the regulator/pigtail like the UK version. The regulator/pigtail has an annular ring on the mating face which impressses into the rubber seal on the bottle outlet. If you mate a UK regulator or pigtail you won't get a proper seal and THEY WILL LEAK.

Three possible answers, either use the adaptor suggested by Zebedee, use a French regulator or pigtail or use one of the special rubber washers sold by Gaslow for German regulators.

Please note: advice given in good faith but without seeing the bottle in question, to make sure you stay safe consult a qualified and experienced engineer before you use a French bottle on a UK installation.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

I'm clearly missing something here which will come as no surprise to those that know me.
What's confusing me is that my Calor _butane_ bottle does not have a thread, it has what I have heard referred to as a bayonette fitting, but the _propane _ one does (have a thread that is). If I am to use the French bottles does that mean that I have to have a pigtail that works with the Calor _butane_ 'bayonette' fitting? Or should I just go and have a lie down for a while?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Cronkle

You have the honour and privilege of being right and wrong . . . both at the same time. 8O :roll:

Ray specified the small Calor Butane bottle deliberately. The large ones do have a bayonet. The small dumpy one has a screw fitting - designated W20 I think?

If you use the French one with the adapter I suggested, all you will need to do is screw the adapter onto the bottle. Then for all intents and purposes it will be just the same as a standard UK Calor Propane bottle, and your existing pigtail will fit perfectly.

Then you can go for a lie down!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Hi Cronkle
> 
> You have the honour and privilege of being right and wrong . . . both at the same time. 8O :roll:
> 
> ...


Ah! Happily unconfused until the next time. 

Will lie down in a moment 

Gas problems abroad solved methinks


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

cronkle said:


> Gas problems abroad solved methinks


Me too! 

It was never a big concern to us, since we rarely go for more than three weeks and usually when it's not that cold.

It is one more little niggle off one's mind though if gas consumption does increase, for whatever reason. It's always possible to get a leak and lose all your gas, and if we were relying only on Calor bottles we would be deep in the soft stuff.

Good result. Thanks again to Rayhook.

Dave


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Any chance you could write a brief article for the permanent "Members Motorhoming Guides" forum please. I'm sure a lot of members would appreciate it - and it will vanish out of site on this forum soon. Include my contribution if you like.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


An excellent idea!


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## 2escapees (Nov 28, 2008)

The safest and simplest solution to all these problems is 2 Gaslow bottles and the necessary pipes and filler point. It works all over the world. I have used mine to refill in Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain etc etc

Just thought I would add one other experience from last January. We were in Portugal and an elderly Dutch couple we burnt to death in their camper following a gas explosion. It appears they had fitted a local bottle to their system. Still they probably did not know what hit them.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Mike

Why do you say "The safest"? :? 

Dave


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

2escapees said:


> The safest and simplest solution to all these problems is 2 Gaslow bottles and the necessary pipes and filler point. It works all over the world. I have used mine to refill in Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, France, Spain etc etc


Possibly the simplest but not the cheapest the way I currently use my van.
As I still have an employer the most I can spend abroad is 4 weeks and I can get by on 1 13kg bottle (and probably with plenty to spare). If we do for some reason loose all our gas from that one bottle I now know we are now able to get more. That is thanks to the knowledge passed on in this thread.

Edit: I see you have added the bit about the explosion since I looked at your post. Were they able to prove what caused the explosion? Was it the bottle, the way it was fitted or nothing to do with either?


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## 2escapees (Nov 28, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> Why do you say "The safest"? :?
> 
> Dave


Safest because many people fail to realise how dangerous these gas bottles can be. Gaslow means no need to try and connect bottles that might might appear to have the same thread, but are different. Propane and Butane are not called the silent killers for nothing. Plus I sadly remember having to give evidence at an inquest when a 21 year old girl died accidentally of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Still I suppose you might save a few bob by fitting some second rate connections. Lets just hope you live to tell the tale.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

2escapees said:


> Safest because many people fail to realise how dangerous these gas bottles can be.


You obviously failed to see mine and Gaspode's careful and deliberate references to the thicker rubber washer which is essential for safety!



2escapees said:


> Gaslow means no need to try and connect bottles that might might appear to have the same thread, but are different.


Agreed, but the information is freely available to ensure that this does not happen. If in doubt the adapter can be shown to the gas retailer and expert advice obtained on the spot - and this needs doing only once for any marque of gas bottle.



2escapees said:


> Propane and Butane are not called the silent killers for nothing.


They are not called the "silent killers" at all. That's Carbon Monoxide! >> See here <<



2escapees said:


> Plus I sadly remember having to give evidence at an inquest when a 21 year old girl died accidentally of carbon monoxide poisoning.


Sad indeed, but I don't see the connection between CO poisoning and a possible gas leak at the bottle??



2escapees said:


> Still I suppose you might save a few bob by fitting some second rate connections. Lets just hope you live to tell the tale.


So . . . having held up *Gaslow *as the safest and only way to go, you are now slagging off the adapter that *they themselves* produce, and market via the "*Calor *Caravan Shop". >> See here << (_This link was also included in my earlier post_!) Two more reliable and expert companies it would be difficult to find!!!!

Sorry mate - you can't have it both ways, and I am as confident of my cheap little *Gaslow *product as you are of your very expensive one.

Thanks for the concern though - and I'm *not *being sarcastic either!!

Dave


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## quartet (Jul 9, 2006)

doh wished somebody wud post a picture!
Barry


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Bessie560 said:


> doh wished somebody wud post a picture!
> Barry


Of what Barry?

Dave


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## quartet (Jul 9, 2006)

Never mind all this gasflo mumbo jumbo
doh
How do you fit the bog standard red hand screw anticlockwise thread into a french cylinder which is a different size still don't get it. does the £9 adapter screw on the end which in turn fits the French cylinders.
Barry


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Bessie560 said:


> does the £9 adapter screw on the end which in turn fits the French cylinders.
> Barry


Yep! Or at least hope it does because that's what all my confusion was about earlier in the thread. If not its time for a lie down again!

(Makes me feel better to know that someone else is confused as well.)


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Here's a picture (same as the one I linked to already) but I've added some description.










Hope this explains it.

Dave


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## quartet (Jul 9, 2006)

*got it*

Crystal clear 
Thank you
Barry


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## 2escapees (Nov 28, 2008)

Thanks to Zebedee for his detailed reply. I just wonder how many people on this website check the rubber hoses on their gas system to see if they have reached there sell buy date. They last for about 5 years and I bet most people don't bother!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Glad to help when I can Mike - that's what MHF is all about!   

I'm sure Gaslow (and Calor I expect?) sell spare rubber washers, but I can't find them on their websites. Only had a quick look, so will spend a bit more time later unless someone else finds them first. :? 

Good practice to change them every few years as you say . . . if you remember!! 8O   

Dave


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## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

*Intermarche cylinder*

For any one interested in my original solution here are some pics:

Ray


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## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

*Bottle fitting*

Gaspode,

No they are the same as the standard Calor fitting - you can screw a Gaslow pipe straight on; see my pics in my post above.

Ray


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Zebedee, I'm a little puzzled by your mention of a "W20" thread. Should it be an "M20" thread? _(i.e. 20mm outer diameter metric thread?)
_It does look about 20mm from your photos.


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## rayhook (May 15, 2005)

*Thread size*

Emmbeedee,

Not sure why this is relevant? It's certainly isn't a standard M20 thread - not least because it's anti-clockwise to tighten - same as Calor. Isn't the important bit that it's the same thread as the small Calor cylinder/screw fitting butane regulator?

Ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

emmbeedee said:


> Zebedee, I'm a little puzzled by your mention of a "W20" thread. Should it be an "M20" thread? _(i.e. 20mm outer diameter metric thread?)
> _It does look about 20mm from your photos.


*S/T or N/R POL x W20 Nut/Tail*










From >> this << very useful website.

(N.B. Before you ask . . . S/T indicates straight through and N/R indicates a non-return/excess flow valve. :wink: :lol: )

Dave


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