# Alde heating system



## whistlinggypsy

I am looking for information on if it is possible to change my Aldi heating system to run from the engine hot water system instead of running it on gas/12v when on the move.

I seem to remember something about getting some kind of fitting that you attach to the engine system and too the Aldi system, then you have hot water and heating.

My m/h is an Autocruise Augusta 2009 and I know this system I am after is fitted in some m/hs (I had it in my Rapido) and friends have it in their Carthargo, and I suspect many other m/hs have it as well.

I have googled for Aldi products UK but as yet have not found any info.

Regards

Bob


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## 96299

Sounds like you might need one of these Bob.... Heat Exchanger

Steve


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## Solwaybuggier

Bob

Try http://www.alde.co.uk/ - I've not looked at the site but that's the UK distributor I think.


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## erneboy

I suspect that will be a big job as a retro fit. It is easy at the manufacturing stage.

Maybe someone who has done it comment, Alan.


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## whistlinggypsy

No wonder I did not get any info. Adli n Alde   

Thanks folks for not pointing out my stupidity :wink: and for the info.

Bob


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## Wupert

whistlinggypsy said:


> No wonder I did not get any info. Adli n Alde
> 
> Thanks folks for not pointing out my stupidity :wink: and for the info.
> 
> Bob


Mornin Bob

I've googled Alde

I'd never thought of this set up but it looks a great idea.

Can you keep us informed please

Would it be a Fiat/Peugeut job or the dealers job?

Dave


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## whistlinggypsy

Dave, i would think it would be an Alde service centre that would carry out such work.

There is a list in the info. section of the Alde web site.

Yes I will post any info. I get, I have email Alde direct and await a response on suitability and cost.

One thing that really does get me going is the fact one cannot turn of the heating in specific area's i.e. the bedroom where we do not like the heating on, I know it is available in more up market m/hs but I do wish it was fitted in ours.


Bob


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## Wupert

whistlinggypsy said:


> Dave, i would think it would be an Alde service centre that would carry out such work.
> 
> There is a list in the info. section of the Alde web site.
> 
> Yes I will post any info. I get, I have email Alde direct and await a response on suitability and cost.
> 
> One thing that really does get me going is the fact one cannot turn of the heating in specific area's i.e. the bedroom where we do not like the heating on, I know it is available in more up market m/hs but I do wish it was fitted in ours.
> 
> Bob


Thanks Bob

I'm sure we have on/off taps on our bedroom rads? I'll check later

We have the Oakmont.

Dave


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## GOVER

I am fortunate to have such a system, it is really worth the investment. The whole water radiator system works very efficiently and responds to the temperature you set on the Aldi control unit. The result is a thoroughly glowing warm van on arrival on a cold winters evening. It is not difficult to retrofit.

On the otherhand, using an extra pump and using the reverse ie heating the engine from the central heating system is very inefficient as you would expect particularly with larger engines. Not worth the expense. The temperature guage for the engine does not show much movement on moving off after a cold night.

Gover


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## whistlinggypsy

> I'm sure we have on/off taps on our bedroom rads? I'll check later
> 
> We have the Oakmont.
> 
> Dave


I would appreciate it if you would check for me Dave as I find it a major drawback in what is a really good system.

Bob


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## teemyob

*Heating*

Hello,

If you already have an Alde system, then carrying out the work is not a very difficult job on most motorhomes, just very time consuming.

We have alde but also have a diesel add (boost) heater fitted. At the moment the boost heater will only work with the engine running.

Trek on here has had his Mercedes re-programed to allow use of the boost heater as a boost or pre-heater.

When I get around to it, going to get the re-program done and tap into the system so we can have the engine heat the habitation are when on the move.

Far better and more efficient than using the gas.

I will let you know how I go on.

Trev.


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## whistlinggypsy

> If you already have an Alde system, then carrying out the work is not a very difficult job on most motorhomes, just very time consuming.


Hi Trev, yes we have Alde heating fitted but I find that when we have the heating on we cannot turn it off in the bedroom and we do not like heat in there at night, but it is nice to get up to a warm lounge & bathroom on a cold winters morning.

Your more up market m/h, like others, I assume have this facility of being able too choose which area's you want to heat.

Also the Autocruise Augusta system has to run on gas when in motion, I have never tried it on 12v as I do not think the Nord control system installed will allow this.

Looking at the threads it looks like it is possible to retro fit a system that will allow one to run the heating and warm water system from the cooling system of the engine, so I have emailed Alde UK for more info, and if it is not too costly have the work done by a Alde service depot.

Bob


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## teemyob

*Upmarket*



whistlinggypsy said:


> If you already have an Alde system, then carrying out the work is not a very difficult job on most motorhomes, just very time consuming.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Trev, yes we have Alde heating fitted but I find that when we have the heating on we cannot turn it off in the bedroom and we do not like heat in there at night, but it is nice to get up to a warm lounge & bathroom on a cold winters morning.
> 
> Your more up market m/h, like others, I assume have this facility of being able too choose which area's you want to heat.
> 
> Also the Autocruise Augusta system has to run on gas when in motion, I have never tried it on 12v as I do not think the Nord control system installed will allow this.
> 
> Looking at the threads it looks like it is possible to retro fit a system that will allow one to run the heating and warm water system from the cooling system of the engine, so I have emailed Alde UK for more info, and if it is not too costly have the work done by a Alde service depot.
> 
> Bob
Click to expand...

Hello Bob,

I do not think we can turn off rads in the MH with our Alde, I am almost certain it is just one continuous loop.

I would be interested to learn what price you are quoted for your project?

Trev


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## whistlinggypsy

> I do not think we can turn off rads in the MH with our Alde, I am almost certain it is just one continuous loop.
> 
> I would be interested to learn what price you are quoted for your project?
> 
> Trev


I know someone that has a Carthargo E liner and the have a valve on each Rad. but then I know someone with a Chic and they do not have the same luxury.

I suppose Trev its all down too cost/class and design of the m/h

I will post the costs when I find out, in the meantime I will be saving up

Bob :roll:


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## 96299

Hi

We have the option to turn off our rads in the over-garage bed in our bus. It is set to off at the moment and will be for along time until someone next to me starts moaning. 

steve


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## whistlinggypsy

> Hi
> 
> We have the option to turn off our rads in the over-garage bed in our bus. It is set to off at the moment and will be for along time until someone next to me starts moaning. Very Happy
> 
> steve


Steve, do you think shwmbo will not notice her wee tootsies felling a tad cold when retiring for the night. :wink:


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## erneboy

Whistlinggypsy, we can turn the heat off in our bedroom there is a valve at the end of the radiator. I guess, like a home heating system you can turn a bit off as long as there is still circulation, Alan.


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## pippin

What I want to know is how to turn the heat *ON* in our bedroom!!!!  
:bazooka::love9: 
:bazooka::love9:


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## teemyob

*Valve*



erneboy said:


> Whistlinggypsy, we can turn the heat off in our bedroom there is a valve at the end of the radiator. I guess, like a home heating system you can turn a bit off as long as there is still circulation, Alan.


I must have a look for that!


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## Wupert

*Re: Valve*



teemyob said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whistlinggypsy, we can turn the heat off in our bedroom there is a valve at the end of the radiator. I guess, like a home heating system you can turn a bit off as long as there is still circulation, Alan.
> 
> 
> 
> I must have a look for that!
Click to expand...

Hi Guys

Just checked



















Control valve on RHS

Dave


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## whistlinggypsy

> I must have a look for that!
> 
> Hi Guys
> 
> Just checked


Dave, that valve shown is on bathroom rad.in pour m/h and not on any other so if you turn it off there will be no circulation for the other rads. further along the route including the boiler. (I think :roll: )

Bob


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## teemyob

*Valves*

All I can find on ours are Pressure relief/bleed looking type Valves!


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## Wupert

*Re: Valves*



teemyob said:


> All I can find on ours are Pressure relief/bleed looking type Valves!


It may well be possible for you to isolate the rad by closing that valve.

Its the valve used in home CH to control flow/balance the system

Dave


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## 96299

whistlinggypsy said:


> Hi
> 
> We have the option to turn off our rads in the over-garage bed in our bus. It is set to off at the moment and will be for along time until someone next to me starts moaning. Very Happy
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, do you think shwmbo will not notice her wee tootsies felling a tad cold when retiring for the night. :wink:
Click to expand...

I suppose I could buy her some bed socks if she gets too cold. 

steve


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## erneboy

Teemyob, the one under the bed head has a valve with a lever with a valve on it in our van, Alan.


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## trek

Hi Teemyob

on the Frankia BD (rear double bed over garage ) model the main heating loop goes through the garage but teeing off this up to the foot of the bed is a separate circuit to heat the bedroom & there is a valve (red handle) at the foot of the bed to switch off the bedroom heating

Teemyob you have a different rear bed arrangement - though I would have thought that you would also have the option to keep the bedroom area cooler



The addition of this Alde heat exchanger is something I plan on adding soon.

it is basically a bit of plumbing to extend the engine cooling system to one side of the ALDE heat exchanger & extending the alde heating loop to the other side of the heat exchanger (which is currently around the £145 )

with pipe clamps you maybe able to complete this work with little coolant loss of both engine & alde heating. remember to top back up both systems with suitable antifreeze solutions

Once completed, when driving the engine pumps the hot coolant through the new heat exchanger, if you want the rear to heat up & hot water you just set the alde pump to run via the alde contol panel.

If you wanted the reverse to occur i.e. pre-warm the engine from the heating circuit you will need to add a pump & switch to the engine side of things (this pump already exists on my sprinter - its operated via a dash button that is used to use up the excess heat in the coolant when you stop the engine.

and to cover all angles add a diesel fueled Webasto or Eberspacher coolant heater into one of the heating systems

Some MB sprinters already have a diesel fueled heater booster made by Eberspacher fitted!


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## erneboy

That is how ours works only the radiator is at the head of the bed, Alan.


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## trek

Hi Alan 

I bet our heating is at the same side of the van (nearside same side as the motorhome door ?)

its just that you must prefer a hot head but my wife gets cold feet!

hang on don't all women have cold feet ?


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## mauriceheather1

*aldi heating*

My burstner 821 as this styem as standerd. there is a small handle on top of the heat exchanger which you turn to have it on or off and then set the heating controls to the tempeture to what you require. cheers maurice


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## erneboy

Hello Trek, ours is a centre bed with the head to the rear and the heating below the bed head which I would not like, but it does not matter, I sleep in the front with two closed doors between me and Mrs Erneboy because she snores like an elephant trumpeting. However while she is serenading the area with her Nelly impersonation she does not get cold as there is another radiator beside the bedroom door, Alan.


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## teemyob

*Alde*

I have just been looking at retrofitting the Alde Heat Exchanger

Alde

To our motorhome.

If I get Mercedes to re-program the Diesel Boost heater with their Star machine and fit the Alde heat exchanger we will have...

Gas Heating
Electric Heating
Diesel Heating
Heating in Rear + Hot water on move from the Engine

+ Possibility to start Diesel Heating from anywhere in the World Via GSM phone (bit over the top, but I guess if you fly to Barbados in winter and realise you did not drain the tank, may be useful!)

Trev


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## teemyob

*Alde*

Just a note, anyone considering the retrofit of an Alde heat exchanger may need an additional pump. When I say may, if you have a Eberspacher/Webasto Diesel Add heater, you may already have one installed. This may need some modification or re-programing of the Chassis system.

However, if you do need one, Alde charge £160. You can buy a Webasto one that does the same job for £40.

I have ordered the Heat Exchanger and Fitting kit tonight.

Trev


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## trek

Hi Trev 

Just fitted my new ALDE heat exchanger - well half of it , so far I have cut into & connected up the motorhome heating circuit, refilled the system , bled it & switched on the heating 

I chose to put this in the locker behind the front passenger door - photo shows location, as the heating pipe already came down into this space (behind a false wall panel) and turned 90 degrees in towards the centre of the van

simply had to remove the front false wall to expose pipe work 

on the one side of the heater circuit I clamped off the pipe work in the boiler cupboard using a G-Clamp and a couple of bits of flat material to squash the pipe but couldn't find anywhere suitable on the other side so hoped that it would be ok. I used mole grips to open up the pipe clips and slid them out of the way then got a 5 litre clean drinking water bottle ready to stick the one end of the hose into once I opened up the pipe joint and a John Guest plastic 22mm plumbing Stop End ready to close off the alluminium pipe . Only about a litre of fluid came out of the one side so once that stopped I took the stop end off the other side & very quickly fitted some hose onto the ally pipe to drain off the other side into the same bottle, again only about a litre came out ( though I was parked on a slope with the front of the van pointing up the slope & I DIDN'T open any bleed valves 

it was then a simple job of reusing the 90 degree bend, ( shortening a bit of alluminium pipe with pipe a cutter, fitting some straight hose & the emptying point which I also bought ( thought it might be a good idea to have one)

Once every thing was reconnected I removed my clamp and re filled the reservoir with the fluid that I had collected in the bottle as this was still clean + a bit extra to allow for some spillage & the extra volume of the additional pipework

I opened the bleed valve that is just above where I was plumbing until the fluid came out - shut it off & then turned on the pump 

TIP :- Frankia fit a switch tucked away under the cover on the top of the ALDE boiler that when on runs the pump at a higher speed to push the fluid around the system when filling, so I set it on the higher speed for a bit and then put the heating on

I will replace the panel once I have fitted the engine coolant hoses, the width of the heat exchanger is wider than the original gap between the panel & the body of the camper but the panel should still fit back all be it a little further to wards the locker door frame

with the heating on this heat exchanger does get very hot I sat it on a piece of alluminium (with up turns on both sides ) to leave an small air gap around the unit & to keep it away from the plywood - I think this will be ok

now have to go and buy some 16mm hose & fittings for the engine side to finish the job! 
(update:- it looks like it'll have to be 18mm to connect into the Merc coolant system & 16mm to connect to the heat exchanger)


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## teemyob

*HE*

Hello,

Our Heat Exchanger never arrived from Alde, despite them charging me £23 next day delivery.

Yours Looks like a neat job, let me know when you are calling around to do ours, I will put the kettle on!.

I think the connecting to the Mercedes Engine/Eberspacher unit maybe a bit more tricky.

Thanks for taking the time to take and post the pictures.

Regards,
Trev.


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## trek

Hi Trev

It could be a very simple job just by running in some heating rubber hose and using some connectors and a 16 to 18 converter but getting the bends looking good could be tricky

So I like the idea of using the proper Merc aluminium pipework (depending on price) and some local modifications

thats the next stage - getting a price for these pipes


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## teemyob

*Alu*

Thanks Trek,

It is times like this I wish I had or had access to a large workshop/unit!

Let me know where and how you tap into the MB/Eberspacher heating circuit will you?

I have not even worked out which way the Alde or Engine water systems pump yet!.

Is your Boiler on the UK Nearside or Offside? Ours is Offside.

TRev


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## trek

both the ALDE & the Eberspacher boilers on my Frankia T7400BD are on the UK nearside.


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## trek

Trev
I need some help to find the registration number of any new style Merc Sprinter minibus that has heating in the rear! 
ie a heater matrix under the van to heat the rear compartment

Called into a Merc dealer to try to order some coolant /heating pipes to extend my heating into the rear heat exchanger using merc parts rather than exposed rubber heater hose

I was told their parts system can only show the actual parts on a real van - so I could see what mine was built with but not much use to buy extra bits that mine doesn't have!

hence I am now on the look out for new shape sprinter minibuses & jot down their reg numbers just to look on merc parts system for the bits I want

though it doesn't look like these pipes are prohibitively expensive as I asked out of curiosity how much the twin pipes that run down the back of the engine to the heater are - £40 so the pipes I want as they are half the length should be cheaper

I must say that my request sounds a bit dodgey doesn't it!


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## teemyob

*Minibusjj*

Trek,

I was doing some work at our local Novotel a few weeks back and there was a flash, new style Mercedes 515 LWB minibus, I noticed there was a side mounted exhaust for an Eberspacher jutting out of the side. At the time as you can imagine, I did not feel the need to note the registration. In any event, the system may have been a retrofit as I notice from the .pdf files you sent me, both systems exhausts vent from under the chassis.

I will see what I can do!

The only concerns I have with the Alde Heat exchanger are these.

In the summer, fitment of the HE could lead to overheating of seats/lockers. (Can it be insualated?).
In the summer, will the heat from the engine into the HE not cause heat to circulate around the habitation space like a gravity hot water storage system in the home?

In the meantime, I have been looking at these to connect to the Engine/Eberspacher

Aluminium Tube

Heat Exchanger Finaly arrived today!

WOW, Just realised, I have been on here four years as of yesterday. How time flies when you are having fun!


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## trek

time does fly I've been on the web hours watching skiing videos from youtube after answering that skiing thread , but enough must goto bed

thanks for that tubing link (its a pity it isn't 15 or 22mm then I could use a plumbing pipe bender)

Until I actually open up the engine circuit I wont know the pipe size for definate 

we know that its 16mm at the HE but now I'm thinking it is either 18mm but more likely 20mm on the eberspacher so better to do it in the larger size then convert down at the HE?

I can understand your concern regarding an extra heat source inside the camper in the summer ( my last camper had a fan driven matrix heater in a locker that ran off the engine it didn't seem to cause a problem & it couldn't be switched off (of course the fan could) & in the Frankia it is down in the bilges

my two thoughts are :-
1:simply break into the circuit on the hot out side of the eberspacher take this off to our new HE and place the return from the new HE onto the remaining merc pipe which goes up to the dash matrix
So the new HE, eberspacher & the dash heater matrix are all in series and the new HE can not be switched off in the summer

2: or Tee into the hot output side of the Eberspacher with a tee piece connect the new branch to the new HE then this other side of the new HE will have to go all the way up the engine compartment and tee into the other side of the dash heater matrix up on the front wall of the bulk head.
So that the new HE & the dash heater matrix are in parallel but this way you could also fit a valve in the new HE circuit to switch it off in the summer

my preference at the moment is the series option plan1 , if then I find it too hot in the summer then I could add in option 2


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## teemyob

*MM*



trek said:


> time does fly I've been on the web hours watching skiing videos from youtube after answering that skiing thread , but enough must goto bed
> 
> thanks for that tubing link (its a pity it isn't 15 or 22mm then I could use a plumbing pipe bender)
> 
> Until I actually open up the engine circuit I wont know the pipe size for definate
> 
> we know that its 16mm at the HE but now I'm thinking it is either 18mm but more likely 20mm on the eberspacher so better to do it in the larger size then convert down at the HE?
> 
> I can understand your concern regarding an extra heat source inside the camper in the summer ( my last camper had a fan driven matrix heater in a locker that ran off the engine it didn't seem to cause a problem & it couldn't be switched off (of course the fan could) & in the Frankia it is down in the bilges
> 
> my two thoughts are :-
> 1:simply break into the circuit on the hot out side of the eberspacher take this off to our new HE and place the return from the new HE onto the remaining merc pipe which goes up to the dash matrix
> So the new HE, eberspacher & the dash heater matrix are all in series and the new HE can not be switched off in the summer
> 
> 2: or Tee into the hot output side of the Eberspacher with a tee piece connect the new branch to the new HE then this other side of the new HE will have to go all the way up the engine compartment and tee into the other side of the dash heater matrix up on the front wall of the bulk head.
> So that the new HE & the dash heater matrix are in parallel but this way you could also fit a valve in the new HE circuit to switch it off in the summer
> 
> my preference at the moment is the series option plan1 , if then I find it too hot in the summer then I could add in option 2


You are Correct Trek, 20mm.

Eberspacher Technical Document


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## trek

regarding the extra heat source inside the camper in the summer, I haven't tried setting the temperature setting on the dash to cold , run the engine up to normal temperature and checked these pipes to see if they still get hot

fingers crossed that there is a valve in the heating circuit controlled by the dash temp setting so it can be turned off in the summer


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## trek

Trev

I've found out the Merc part number for the pipe work that will extend the heating circuit rearwards from my existing Eberspacher heater & under the fuel filler 
just been to my local MB dealer to order & pay for it (Its coming from Germany so they expect it Weds !)

cost is £18.10 +vat

its shown on the attachment as no 11 This shows a 3 pipe system I hope I've ordered the 2 pipe version 

still not sure of the size of the merc pipework I think it should be 20mm but measuring the diameter of the existing pipework at the joints & allowing for the hose wall thickness it could be 18mm, obviuosly will be able to confirm this when my new pipe arrives


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## teemyob

*Pipes*

Thanks Trek,

I have been under the van and had a look inside a few nooks, crannies and the shallow false floor.

I have found a place just behind the front passenger seat. Just under there is the Eberspacher. Was thinking of running the pipes down by the Diesel filler hose (insulated).

Trev.


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## ceejayt

I had this on my N & B Flair - but it must be a huge job to fit afterwards. It did two things - first of all, if the hating had been on and the fluid was hot them I could press a switch and it would be circulated around the engine - this meant that you could warm the engine before you started it to save engine wear.
The second bit was that when drinving it was heating the radiators and hot water and you always arrived on site with hot water which was nice. I never sussed how to turn this function on and off though.

Hope that helps


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## trek

good bit of dead space you've found there & the new pipe runs will be minimal.. & I assume the engine pipework will go through the polystyrene cover underneath that surrounds the fuel filler pipe

Only problem now is to keep the new hoses from kinking or closing up as the bends look as though they will be tight or will you do this in aluminum pipe 

by the way have you tried running your engine yet with the heater temp setting on cold to see if these pipes still get hot - looking at a diagram of the dash heater matrix & pipework there may be a hot water valve that stops the flow when set to cold - just haven't tried it yet on mine, hopefully it will shut of the heat to the matrix and therefore also to the eberspacher & new heat exchanger


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## trek

Hi Ceejayt

I would imagine on your Flair when you are driving the circulating pump on the rear Alde camper heating must be running to push the coolant through the heat exchanger & around to the alde boiler

I would have thought that there would be a switch to stop this in the summer as you wouldnt want your radiators getting hot then ?? 

once I have mine fully connected when I am driving & requiring heating in the rear I will just switch ion the Alde pump on the alde control panel


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## ceejayt

I had this on my N & B Flair - but it must be a huge job to fit afterwards. It did two things - first of all, if the hating had been on and the fluid was hot them I could press a switch and it would be circulated around the engine - this meant that you could warm the engine before you started it to save engine wear.
The second bit was that when drinving it was heating the radiators and hot water and you always arrived on site with hot water which was nice. I never sussed how to turn this function on and off though.

Hope that helps


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## teemyob

*Heating*



ceejayt said:


> I had this on my N & B Flair - but it must be a huge job to fit afterwards. It did two things - first of all, if the hating had been on and the fluid was hot them I could press a switch and it would be circulated around the engine - this meant that you could warm the engine before you started it to save engine wear.
> The second bit was that when drinving it was heating the radiators and hot water and you always arrived on site with hot water which was nice. I never sussed how to turn this function on and off though.
> 
> Hope that helps


The Mercedes chassis if fitted with A/C has a Residual heat function. Pressing this button on the dash activates a pump and the Cab heater blower for 30 mins. However, this requires the key to be in the igntion.

*See also, previous noted regarding Eberspacher/Mercedes re-programming off ADD Heater.

*See also next post


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## teemyob

*Heat*



trek said:


> good bit of dead space you've found there & the new pipe runs will be minimal.. & I assume the engine pipework will go through the polystyrene cover underneath that surrounds the fuel filler pipe
> 
> Only problem now is to keep the new hoses from kinking or closing up as the bends look as though they will be tight or will you do this in aluminum pipe
> 
> by the way have you tried running your engine yet with the heater temp setting on cold to see if these pipes still get hot - looking at a diagram of the dash heater matrix & pipework there may be a hot water valve that stops the flow when set to cold - just haven't tried it yet on mine, hopefully it will shut of the heat to the matrix and therefore also to the eberspacher & new heat exchanger


Yes, the pipes, insulated will go via the poly cap.

As for kinking, I have some straight 22-16mm reducers but may exchange them for some Reducing Elbows to reduce bends/joins.

Did not go for the alu tube on the Vehicle side due to higher pressure so went for these Raised Edge Joining Pipes.

As the key may need to be in the ignition for Engine pre-heat, I may fit and additional pump linked to a CBE switch via a relay (see photo)


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## teemyob

*Airlock*

Well I am all plumbed in but have an AIRLOCK on the Alde Side!

Any Suggestions?

TM


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## Vennwood

ceejayt said:


> I had this on my N & B Flair - but it must be a huge job to fit afterwards. It did two things - first of all, if the hating had been on and the fluid was hot them I could press a switch and it would be circulated around the engine - this meant that you could warm the engine before you started it to save engine wear.
> The second bit was that when drinving it was heating the radiators and hot water and you always arrived on site with hot water which was nice. I never sussed how to turn this function on and off though.
> 
> Hope that helps


On our Flair there is a small trap door in the floor between the two front seats. Inside there is a on/off valve lever. This turns off the heat to the rear in summer and turns on in winter.

Teemyob,

On our Alde there is a bleed valve in the pipe just above the heat exchanger and according to our manual this is where you bleed the system


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## teemyob

*HE Blead*



Vennwood said:


> ceejayt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had this on my N & B Flair - but it must be a huge job to fit afterwards. It did two things - first of all, if the hating had been on and the fluid was hot them I could press a switch and it would be circulated around the engine - this meant that you could warm the engine before you started it to save engine wear.
> The second bit was that when drinving it was heating the radiators and hot water and you always arrived on site with hot water which was nice. I never sussed how to turn this function on and off though.
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> 
> 
> On our Flair there is a small trap door in the floor between the two front seats. Inside there is a on/off valve lever. This turns off the heat to the rear in summer and turns on in winter.
> 
> Teemyob,
> 
> On our Alde there is a bleed valve in the pipe just above the heat exchanger and according to our manual this is where you bleed the system
Click to expand...

THANkS For that Venwood!

How low down in relation to your rads is your Heat Exchanger?

TM


----------



## Vennwood

Hi Teemyob,

Its kinda difficult to say as it looks about the same height as there is a loop in the pipe with the bleed valve at the top. Most of our radiators are pretty much floor height however if I was guessing then I'd say its slightly lower. I think this valve is to bleed the exchanger only as the water is pumped into the plastic bottle in the cupboard so any air would be let out there.

Maybe in your case you need to let it run for a while and let the system bleed itself but I guess you've already done that.

What makes you sure its on the Alde side and not the engine side?


----------



## teemyob

*Air*

Thanks again!

Same here then.

Alde UK do not (or did not offer) a heat exchanger with a bleed valve like the one listed on its .se site.

I have drained some fluid and popped it back in the tank a few times, maybe I am just panicking! :roll:

The heat exchange is indirect so no exchange of fluids between Alde and Mercedes.

TM


----------



## trek

Trev 

I take it by now you have found all the bleed valves

Frankia fit them at most of the corners & high points so you should find a few of them 

& have you turned the ALDE pump up to full speed to push the water through?


on the top of the ALDE boileris a cover on the right hand side where the electrical connections are made 

have a look under the cover for a small black switch on the end of a cable
hopefully you will have one
change the switch position and turn on the pump this should run the pump at full speed and push the air through to the top up reservoir


----------



## trek

by the way ALDE UK do sell the Heat Exchanger with the built in bleed & shut off valve . they just haven't listed it on their UK website


----------



## Vennwood

*Re: Air*



teemyob said:


> Thanks again!
> 
> Same here then.
> 
> Alde UK do not (or did not offer) a heat exchanger with a bleed valve like the one listed on its .se site.
> 
> I have drained some fluid and popped it back in the tank a few times, maybe I am just panicking! :roll:
> 
> The heat exchange is indirect so no exchange of fluids between Alde and Mercedes.
> 
> TM


It does take a fair time to get through and warm up the system so it may be that you aren't giving it enough time. I haven't timed it in ours but I'd guess it takes an hour before we see any appreciable heat in all the radiators. It isn't as efficient as using the gas direct. This time of year ours is obviously turned on to work with engine and after a couple of hours drive its all nice and toasty.


----------



## teemyob

*Trek*

Just had an email off Trek!

There is a Pump Switch on the boiler, had forgotten his earlier advice to switch it up to high after re-filling.

Thanks!

TM


----------



## trek

mmmh! & don't forget to switch it back once all the air has been expelled


nice one Trev! 

did you check to see if when the engine is running & the temp on the dash set to blue /min whether these pipes get hot

I think that by turning the temp down to min on the merc dash then a valve shuts the heat off from the heater matrix & the new heat exchanger

so whats next on the list of mods ?

booster to auxiliary heater?


----------



## Bubblehead

Hi

If you cant get rid of the air lock put the van up on ramps / on a slope / jack and bleed the system again it will help the run to a high point and vent. You may have to do it front and then rear dependant on how the pipes run. Check all your pipes to ensure that they don't bow upward as it will keep getting air locks. Try to ensure that they all slop upwards towards a vent. Vent the system when the pump is stopped, then use the high speed setting on the pump to get the remaining air out.

Hope this helps

Andy


----------



## teemyob

*Mods*



trek said:


> mmmh! & don't forget to switch it back once all the air has been expelled
> 
> nice one Trev!
> 
> did you check to see if when the engine is running & the temp on the dash set to blue /min whether these pipes get hot
> 
> I think that by turning the temp down to min on the merc dash then a valve shuts the heat off from the heater matrix & the new heat exchanger
> 
> so whats next on the list of mods ?
> 
> booster to auxiliary heater?


No did not check the pipes on cold setting, will do that tomorrow. The 19mm heater hose I used was perfect and fitted the 18mm Mercedes Pipes and the 19mm Aly joiner perfectly. I did find the existing hose a bit week and thin compared to our new hose!

Next mod will be to try to get Mercedes Comand sorted, it is due back to me next week.

After that I will probably nip down to the Dealer you recommended for the booster to auxiliary!

Then the electric dump valve,
Inverter,
Extra Solar Panel

and then save up for the big one

Full Rear Air!

Thanks Trek and everyone for your help

22mm & 19mm Joiners Here


----------



## coppo

Yes Trev, full rear air is what i,m saving for, although i keep thinking how long will we keep the van before changing, i,m not sure if the vans upmarket enough to warrant it(Hymer A class 660 2007 reg merc 2.7)

Decisions.

Paul.


----------



## teemyob

*Air*



coppo said:


> Yes Trev, full rear air is what i,m saving for, although i keep thinking how long will we keep the van before changing, i,m not sure if the vans upmarket enough to warrant it(Hymer A class 660 2007 reg merc 2.7)
> 
> Decisions.
> 
> Paul.


Depends how long you intend to keep the MH?

I think ours needs it. Well it needs something as it bottoms out on hills and ferries due to frankias bad design of not sweeping upwards the tail of the rear chassis.

I could go for semi air but then that is part way to full, with regard to cost! Shane (Snelly) suggests that full air can bring on motion sickness (he used to drive Ambulances).

Trek, have just shut down the tempmatic/climate control and the eberspacher shuts off but the hot water continues to pump through. Only summer will tell if we have a static heating system!


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Mods*



teemyob said:


> trek said:
> 
> 
> 
> mmmh! & don't forget to switch it back once all the air has been expelled
> 
> nice one Trev!
> 
> did you check to see if when the engine is running & the temp on the dash set to blue /min whether these pipes get hot
> 
> I think that by turning the temp down to min on the merc dash then a valve shuts the heat off from the heater matrix & the new heat exchanger
> 
> so whats next on the list of mods ?
> 
> booster to auxiliary heater?
> 
> 
> 
> No did not check the pipes on cold setting, will do that tomorrow. The 19mm heater hose I used was perfect and fitted the 18mm Mercedes Pipes and the 19mm Aly joiner perfectly. I did find the existing hose a bit week and thin compared to our new hose!
> 
> Next mod will be to try to get Mercedes Comand sorted, it is due back to me next week.
> 
> After that I will probably nip down to the Dealer you recommended for the booster to auxiliary!
> 
> Then the electric dump valve,
> Inverter,
> Extra Solar Panel
> 
> and then save up for the big one
> 
> Full Rear Air!
> 
> Thanks Trek and everyone for your help
> 
> 22mm & 19mm Joiners Here
Click to expand...

I forgot, Mods...

Contacter auto change over from shore power to onboard inverter!

TM


----------



## trek

if you plan on going to get your booster converted to auxillary then run a wire from the dash booster switch down to the eberspacher heater, before you go. The dealer will have the correct terminal ends to fit the eberspacher & Merc switch connectors so dont worry about these

just run in the wire 

(two wires if you also plan on adding a 7day timer - but I never bothered with that as already have 3 on/off times I can set in advance via the dash computer)

and get the dealer to order the new dual position Auxiliary switch (639 545 19 07) and to order in advance from Germany the change of codes from booster to heater for your chassis ! (this change of codes then gets down loaded from Mercs main vehicle database into your sprinters ECU when they hook up the STAR diagnostic computer)


----------



## teemyob

*Cables*



trek said:


> if you plan on going to get your booster converted to auxillary then run a wire from the dash booster switch down to the eberspacher heater, before you go. The dealer will have the correct terminal ends to fit the eberspacher & Merc switch connectors so dont worry about these
> 
> just run in the wire
> 
> (two wires if you also plan on adding a 7day timer - but I never bothered with that as already have 3 on/off times I can set in advance via the dash computer)
> 
> and get the dealer to order the new dual position Auxiliary switch (639 545 19 07) and to order in advance from Germany the change of codes from booster to heater for your chassis ! (this change of codes then gets down loaded from Mercs main vehicle database into your sprinters ECU when they hook up the STAR diagnostic computer)


How did you route the cables? Under the van or through the cab?

TM


----------



## trek

from the switch on the dash I went left to the centre console then down behind it and under the floor mat and over to the seat box under the passenger seat (nearside/left hand side)

there is a black boot in the corner of the seat box floor that cables run through & out under the floor this pops out near the fuel tank & close to the eberspacher heater so its ideal!

the switch itself was difficult to pop out from the dash & once out I left it dangling until I got the new switch. Also the dealers auto electrician will have to crimp a new terminal on to the wire that you run in then insert it into this switch connector block


----------



## teemyob

*Done*

All Finished, tidied up and back together, at last!.

Turned out quite well as I managed to rid ourselves of a cold spot around the footwell of the passenger door. See images, where the heat exchanger is against a vent. May have to change the vent for one we can close.

As for air suspension, one of the other images shows how low the back end is to the ground, always grates on the ferry ramps.

TM


----------



## coppo

Trev
Regarding the air suspension, when fitted it makes the ride height lower that the original suspension and even with the back fully raised i,m not sure it will make much difference to the height from the ground.

Paul.


----------



## teemyob

*Alde HE's*

Both Types of Alde Heat Exchangers here< Click

TM


----------



## wobby

It may surprise you to know that this little water to water heat exchanger was originally invented by an Irishman. 

We were fitting them 20 years ago to heat hot water cylinders from the central heating boiler, I had one fitted in my house in Ireland and as far as I know they are still available.

Wobby


----------



## teemyob

*irishman*



wobby said:


> It may surprise you to know that this little water to water heat exchanger was originally invented by an Irishman.
> 
> We were fitting them 20 years ago to heat hot water cylinders from the central heating boiler, I had one fitted in my house in Ireland and as far as I know they are still available.
> 
> Wobby


Interesting, Do you have any more info Wobby?


----------



## wobby

I'll see what I can do, sold the buisness and have been retired for 2 years, but might be able to get some info. The ones we used were almost identical and had a heat exshange rate of around 8kw. 

Wobby


----------



## trek

Hi Teemyob & all

I finally got around to finishing my Alde Heat Exchanger install

rather than just use lengths of radiator hose I chose to use Mercedes parts where I could so bought some pipework that is used on Sprinter minibuses which have dual Eberspacher heaters (diont suppose there are many of these about in the UK ) and a couple of hoses

Full credit to Mercedes as I ordered these obscure / rarely used parts on Monday & they arrived in the dealers all the way from Germany on Weds!!!


My timing was brilliant last weekend when I fitted a Webasto Thermo Top water heater to my car ( I had bought & fitted it to my previous camper - removed it when I sold it) so now my car warms itself up every morning on the timer or remote control , demists the windscreen and starts pre warmed


----------



## teemyob

*Heat*

Looks like a nice neat job to me!

Like the idea of the Mercedes Hoses, we did not need them as I installed our Heat Exchanger is directly above the Eberspacher.

Anyone else going to tackle the task?

TM


----------



## teemyob

*Disaster*

I will Try it here

Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.

I have drained and bled the system, twice.
I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.

We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).

I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.

So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.

Peed off in the Pyrenees.

TM

PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!


----------



## Vennwood

*Re: Disaster*



teemyob said:


> I will Try it here
> 
> Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.
> 
> I have drained and bled the system, twice.
> I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.
> 
> We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).
> 
> I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.
> 
> So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.
> 
> Peed off in the Pyrenees.
> 
> TM
> 
> PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!


Hi Teemyob,

Realy sorry to hear about the pump. I keep wondering if I should carry a spare as a couple of fellow campers have mentioned them failing.

Anyway I would try ringing this guy and see how quick he can get a replacement out to you. He may also have a way of getting the existing one to work if you say it works in a bowl

GRAHAM CUTMORE (Engineering)
www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk

Telephone/Fax:- 01933 622593
Mobile:- 07702 057 627

Graham is pretty good but if you have any problems then PM me and I'll try and locate one for you

Pete


----------



## wobby

*Re: Disaster*



teemyob said:


> I will Try it here
> 
> Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.
> 
> I have drained and bled the system, twice.
> I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.
> 
> We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).
> 
> I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.
> 
> So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.
> 
> Peed off in the Pyrenees.
> 
> TM
> 
> PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!


If its working Ok in a bowl of water then I dow't its the pump. I think its more like an airlock in the System. You need to draw water though all the points you can, and here is the problem, if the air lock is one side of the circuit the water as you bleed will flow round the other side and not move the airlock. I spent the 40 years in the heating business,
Is it possible to reverse the way the pump is pumping by swapping the hoses round.

Wobby


----------



## Vennwood

If the pump is working then I agree with Wobby it may be possible that there is an air lock. That said I guess you will have tried that. Can you feel/hear the pump working in the header tank?

Just a thought - as you have fitted the heat exchanger, does the heating work when running the engine? We don't use the circulation pump when running the engine and it heats everything up. If yours does the same and heats up while driving then it would point to the pump. If not then Wobby may be right and the system needs further bleeding.

Graham Cutmore may have an answer. I've tried Alde but they are closed until the 4th Jan. Their web site shows the pump available at £89.70 + shipping but again you need to contact them direct for shipping costs

http://www.alde.co.uk/itemdetails.php?itemId=78


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Disaster*



Vennwood said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will Try it here
> 
> Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.
> 
> I have drained and bled the system, twice.
> I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.
> 
> We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).
> 
> I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.
> 
> So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.
> 
> Peed off in the Pyrenees.
> 
> TM
> 
> PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Teemyob,
> 
> Realy sorry to hear about the pump. I keep wondering if I should carry a spare as a couple of fellow campers have mentioned them failing.
> 
> Anyway I would try ringing this guy and see how quick he can get a replacement out to you. He may also have a way of getting the existing one to work if you say it works in a bowl
> 
> GRAHAM CUTMORE (Engineering)
> www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk
> 
> Telephone/Fax:- 01933 622593
> Mobile:- 07702 057 627
> 
> Graham is pretty good but if you have any problems then PM me and I'll try and locate one for you
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...

Hello Pete,

Thanks for your reply.

The problem was not with the Pump as wobby suggesteted. However, I really appreciate your reply and will contact Graham for a spare pump. I may also consider fitting an additional pump in-line as a precaution for the future.

Again, your reply is very much appreciated. All thest best for 2010.

WARM Regards, 
TM.


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Disaster*



wobby said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will Try it here
> 
> Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.
> 
> I have drained and bled the system, twice.
> I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.
> 
> We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).
> 
> I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.
> 
> So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.
> 
> Peed off in the Pyrenees.
> 
> TM
> 
> PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!
> 
> 
> 
> If its working Ok in a bowl of water then I dow't its the pump. I think its more like an airlock in the System. You need to draw water though all the points you can, and here is the problem, if the air lock is one side of the circuit the water as you bleed will flow round the other side and not move the airlock. I spent the 40 years in the heating business,
> Is it possible to reverse the way the pump is pumping by swapping the hoses round.
> 
> Wobby
Click to expand...

Hello and Thanks to you Colin.

You were correct, the pump was okay and your advice regarding reversing the pump led me to my initial suspicion, a blockage.

I will upload a photo of the problem when I get some cheap internet access.

Thanks again and all the best for 2010.

TM


----------



## wobby

*Re: Disaster*



teemyob said:


> wobby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will Try it here
> 
> Our ALDE Heating has Failed, well I think it is the pump.
> 
> I have drained and bled the system, twice.
> I have removed and tested the pump in a bowl of water, the pump does pick up and throw out water but does not work when I put it back in place. It makes a noise but does not apear to be circulating water in the system.
> 
> We are in Lourdes, Pyrenees. We were going to go through Andorra to Spain and do some skiing. Cannot do that now as we have no heating (the backup heating being the Dometic A/C unit keeps tripping the circuit breaker).
> 
> I could nip and get a small heater, but most of the sites have low amps and heating a MH this size is a bit tricky.
> 
> So will probably just head for Spain to Valencia and see if we can try to and find some dealer en-route who can help, or if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can get an ALDE pump?, please get in-touch! SidT has my mobile number so he can text me.
> 
> Peed off in the Pyrenees.
> 
> TM
> 
> PS: Having to connect to Internet via Nokia O2 so will have to re-mortgage the house when we get home!
> 
> 
> 
> If its working Ok in a bowl of water then I dow't its the pump. I think its more like an airlock in the System. You need to draw water though all the points you can, and here is the problem, if the air lock is one side of the circuit the water as you bleed will flow round the other side and not move the airlock. I spent the 40 years in the heating business,
> Is it possible to reverse the way the pump is pumping by swapping the hoses round.
> 
> Wobby
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hello and Thanks to you Colin.
> 
> You were correct, the pump was okay and your advice regarding reversing the pump led me to my initial suspicion, a blockage.
> 
> I will upload a photo of the problem when I get some cheap internet access.
> 
> Thanks again and all the best for 2010.
> 
> TM
Click to expand...

Thats great glad you got it sorted. Happy 2010 travels, with heat.

Colin


----------



## Vennwood

Pleased you got sorted out. It's our fear of the heating breaking down just when you need it most.

I heard from Graham yesterday, he has them in stock (and I quote "every part for all the Alde systems") so I've ordered one.

Just an oddity for what its worth - Graham's price is £1.25 dearer than Alde direct however his postage is £2.15, whereas Alde postage is "from" £5.75

Finally Alde have modified the pump and beefed it up - I wonder why.......


----------



## wobby

Vennwood

Any chance of his contact detail, as I think we will go down the road of a spare pump to.


----------



## Vennwood

Hi Colin,

here they are

GRAHAM CUTMORE (Engineering) 
www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk

Telephone/Fax:- 01933 622593 
Mobile:- 07702 057 627

5 The Hollow, 
Stanwick, 
Wellingborough, 
Northants. 
NN9 6PY

Its odd that we have used the Alde system for years, having had our first one back in the 1980's in a Bessacarr caravan and never heard of a fault in all that time until a few months ago when we met up in France with a fellow MH'er with a Flair and he mentioned that he had to replace 2 pumps in as many years, then another guy here in UK had the same and finally when at Polch (N+B factory) there was a German guy in there with a Carthago having a new pump fitted. Finally I read on the Alde web site that they have introduced a modified pump that replaces all previous models - perhaps it was a bad batch or the fact that more and more are using MH's in winter.

Anyway we have ordered one to be on the safe side

All the best for the New Year

Pete


----------



## wobby

Wise move Pete, I to have heard of one failing, it always seems to happens when its cold. Although our van in new, if abroad as usually we are, the hassle of getting a warranty replacement whist we freeze doesn't bear thinking about, so I'll order one as soon as GRAHAM CUTMORE (Engineering) are back from NY hols.

Thanks, Colin


----------



## Vennwood

Hi TM/Wobby,

Just got this reply from Graham Cutmore regarding the new circulation pump so thought I would pass it on for your information. Bold type are Grahams words

"*Thank you for your email. The current model of Alde Circulation pump is what I designate as a Mk IV (since 1978 when it was a Mk I). The new pump was introduced approximately 12 months ago replacing the Mk III which, although fairly reliable, did have its problems. The Mk IV is a direct replacement for the previous models, but the motor is slightly bigger and subsequently a little more powerful, particularly suited to motorhomes. As far as longevity goes, it has a somewhat limited history but has proved to be trouble free and quite reliable"*

Colin - It seems Graham is back at work already and has promised to send my pump out on Monday.

Pete


----------



## wobby

That's brilliant, Pete, I'll give him a ring next week and order one too. I'm sure other member will be grateful for this post. 

Thanks very much Colin


----------



## trek

Teemyob

have you fixed your heating?

you mentioned a blockage that you found when reversing the pump ?

on my installation I have an automatic air vent (pictured ) which is combined with a non return valve by the boiler so that would prevent you reversing the pump

Note I also have a different pump arrangement to the one that Vennwood posted 

so before ordering a new pump check if yours is an inline pump fitted into the 22mm pipework near the boiler or a circulation pump that fits into the expansion tank


----------



## trek

Just been to look & the in-line circulation pump on my ALDE 3010 system in my Frankia is a HELLA Auxiliary water pump so far the only markings I can see on it is " PA66 GF25"

So Frankia didn't fit the ALDE pump but a HELLA one!


----------



## Vennwood

trek said:


> Just been to look & the in-line circulation pump on my ALDE 3010 system in my Frankia is a HELLA Auxiliary water pump so far the only markings I can see on it is " PA66 GF25"
> 
> So Frankia didn't fit the ALDE pump but a HELLA one!


Is this pump also used to warm the engine from the Alde system as you don't have a pump on top of the expansion tank?


----------



## trek

Hi Vennwood

Frankia have only fitted one pump i.e. this in-line Hella (PA66-GF25) pump on the return to the 3010 boiler on the ALDE camper rear heating circuit

there is no pump in the expansion / header tank

when I want to heat the Rear via the heat exchanger when the engine is running I set this pump running by turning on the ALDE system via the control panel (electric & gas are set to off )

There is a separate Mercedes pump in the engine coolant system that is used by the waste heat recirculation switch & the auxiliary heater that circulates the coolant around the engine & dash heater matrix


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## teemyob

*Airvent*



trek said:


> Teemyob
> 
> have you fixed your heating?
> 
> you mentioned a blockage that you found when reversing the pump ?
> 
> on my installation I have an automatic air vent (pictured ) which is combined with a non return valve by the boiler so that would prevent you reversing the pump
> 
> Note I also have a different pump arrangement to the one that Vennwood posted
> 
> so before ordering a new pump check if yours is an inline pump fitted into the 22mm pipework near the boiler or a circulation pump that fits into the expansion tank


Thanks Trek,

It was that non return valve/vent that fell to bits and blocked the pipe!

I have taken the plastic bit out to get it going as a temporary fix (got to -16c in the Pyrenees).

We have the same Hella Pump as you but is sounds strained now and the rear or rather end of the heating run is not getting as warm as it did.

See pic


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## trek

Hi Teemyob

hope the snow is good where you are!

With regard to the Hella pump that Frankia fit :-
I have been looking to get a spare but have failed so far to find one on the web. Not sure if the markings on the pump " PA66 GF25" is the part number or the type plastic the body is made of 

If you track a new pump down could send me the details !

Cheers


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## Rapide561

*Alde 3010*

Hi

I have no vested interest in the Alde system other than being nosey. Here goes...

1) Does it work like Truma Combi - gas/electric/both?

2) When driving the motorhome, are you using gas to heat the system or in the engine doing it all?

3) If the answer to (2) is that the engine does it all, do you use more diesel when driving?

Basically, if the answer to (2) is engine, very basically how does it work?

Cheers

Russell


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## teemyob

*Re: Alde 3010*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have no vested interest in the Alde system other than being nosey. Here goes...
> 
> 1) Does it work like Truma Combi - gas/electric/both?
> 
> 2) When driving the motorhome, are you using gas to heat the system or in the engine doing it all?
> 
> 3) If the answer to (2) is that the engine does it all, do you use more diesel when driving?
> 
> Basically, if the answer to (2) is engine, very basically how does it work?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Russell


Hello Russel,

Dependent upon how the ALDE System is set-up it can run on Gas, Electric, Diesel or Engine Heat (Mostly otherwise wasted). Or a combination of any 1,2,3 or all.

For the System to run off Engine heat, a heat exchanger has to be fitted. When the heating is running off engine heat, yes it can increase fuel consumption, but only realy on cold start-up's as the otherwise wasted engine heat would simply go out through the vehicles radiator.

Does this help?

TM


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## Vennwood

*Re: Alde 3010*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have no vested interest in the Alde system other than being nosey. Here goes...
> 
> 1) Does it work like Truma Combi - gas/electric/both?
> 
> 2) When driving the motorhome, are you using gas to heat the system or in the engine doing it all?
> 
> 3) If the answer to (2) is that the engine does it all, do you use more diesel when driving?
> 
> Basically, if the answer to (2) is engine, very basically how does it work?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Russell


Hi Russell,

As Teemyob says the Alde runs off both mains electric or gas or BOTH. (using both is recommended to heat up the system more quickly from cold) The main difference is that the Alde is similar to a domestic system in that it heats up small coolant filled radiators located near the bottom (or in the double floor when available). The dissadvantage is that it does take longer to heat up the habitation area when compared to the Truma blown air system. The advantages are that once heated up the heat is more evenly spread so you don't get the hot spots as seen in some blown air systems. The Alde is silent in operation with only the sound of the boiler starting up if on gas.

Again as Teemyob says another big advantage is that you can have a heat exchanger fitted. This will allow you to heat up the habitation area while driving along - a major plus in winter. This works by using engine coolant to flow through a radiator that also has the Alde coolant running through it and the action of having hot and cold water runing through the same radiator transfers heat from one system to the other - as simple as that. It does mean that while driving you don't need to have your gas on and when you stop the hot water tank on the Alde is nice and hot for washing the dishes etc.

As regards to using more fuel I don't really know as I would have thought that the engine thermostat would come into play here and as it is acting like another engine cooling radiator it may even help with consumption.

A third option with the Alde is that you can reverse the Habitation heating system and heat up the engine on a cold morning and thus potentially save fuel and reduce wear and tear on the engine as you would be starting it up warm leading to less stress on the battery etc. With all things you don't get anything for nothing and I guess if you heat up the engine before starting you would be using more gas if wild camping.


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## trek

why not check out the 2010 ALDE catalogue where you will find diagrams layouts etc

http://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_mobile_2010.pdf

For anyone familiar with the ALDE system there are a load of new products & fittings including the option to retrofit floor heating


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## teemyob

*Heating*



trek said:


> why not check out the 2010 ALDE catalogue where you will find diagrams layouts etc
> 
> http://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_mobile_2010.pdf
> 
> For anyone familiar with the ALDE system there are a load of new products & fittings including the option to retrofit floor heating


Floor heating would be a nice Idea if I could get to it. Our Kitchen sink cold water pipe and waste drain froze up @ just -6c.

TM


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## trek

Teemyob

with the new additions to the catalogue especially the "John Guest " plastic 12mm pipe & fittings you may be able to run in some extra bendy plastic pipe work around your cold spots to prevent this happening again

under the sink on my Frankia is a cutlery drawer & a slide out racking system & under the base of this there are some heating pipes 

do you know exactly where the pipes froze ?
in this cupboard or inside the double floor space ? 

(are the pipes in the double floor running close to the rear Wheel arches ? I only have the thin silvered bubble wrap type insulation covering mine. 
Just maybe you could get some pipe insulation on to the pipes where they froze


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## teemyob

*Pipes*



trek said:


> Teemyob
> 
> with the new additions to the catalogue especially the "John Guest " plastic 12mm pipe & fittings you may be able to run in some extra bendy plastic pipe work around your cold spots to prevent this happening again
> 
> under the sink on my Frankia is a cutlery drawer & a slide out racking system & under the base of this there are some heating pipes
> 
> do you know exactly where the pipes froze ?
> in this cupboard or inside the double floor space ?
> 
> (are the pipes in the double floor running close to the rear Wheel arches ? I only have the thin silvered bubble wrap type insulation covering mine.
> Just maybe you could get some pipe insulation on to the pipes where they froze


Thanks Trek,

Not investigated where the water pipe froze, yet. Our kitchen is probably very similar to yours but I think it was in the outside locker space. The waste froze at the valve.

I had to run a hairdryer for 30 mins in the outer locker to warm it up, luckily, no bursts. Ended up draining the water system every night after that.

Not very impressed by the winterisation!

I think I might pop an email over to Frankia.

Thanks once again, 
TM


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## Vennwood

*Re: Pipes*



teemyob said:


> trek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teemyob
> 
> with the new additions to the catalogue especially the "John Guest " plastic 12mm pipe & fittings you may be able to run in some extra bendy plastic pipe work around your cold spots to prevent this happening again
> 
> under the sink on my Frankia is a cutlery drawer & a slide out racking system & under the base of this there are some heating pipes
> 
> do you know exactly where the pipes froze ?
> in this cupboard or inside the double floor space ?
> 
> (are the pipes in the double floor running close to the rear Wheel arches ? I only have the thin silvered bubble wrap type insulation covering mine.
> Just maybe you could get some pipe insulation on to the pipes where they froze
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Trek,
> 
> Not investigated where the water pipe froze, yet. Our kitchen is probably very similar to yours but I think it was in the outside locker space. The waste froze at the valve.
> 
> I had to run a hairdryer for 30 mins in the outer locker to warm it up, luckily, no bursts. Ended up draining the water system every night after that.
> 
> Not very impressed by the winterisation!
> 
> I think I might pop an email over to Frankia.
> 
> Thanks once again,
> TM
Click to expand...

Hi Teemyob,

I can see how you would be a little concerned about the frozen pipe(s) you suffered. Are you saying that the Frankia doesn't have heating in the double floor or is it that the Frankia doesn't have a double floor on the Merc chassis?

Frankia say they produce one of the best insulatated MH's in Europe so how come it froze? I think you should ask Frankia how this could happen at only -6 and I for one would be interested in their reply.


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## erneboy

Teemyob, I suspect it may be because of the transmission tunnel, all our locker spaces stay very warm, really they are heated to the same temperature as the inside of the van. The only exception would be the services locker but enough heat will be leaking in there to keep it from freezing even when it is very cold outside. 

I would contact Frankia, I expect they would consider helping, Alan.


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## teemyob

*Winterised*

Venwood, Alan,

Yes the Frankia on Mercedes does have a double floor, there is no transmission tunnel on this Mercedes but there is one on the Frankia/Mercedes/Alko Chassis.

We only have a very shallow under floor running through the motorhome, can partly be seen in the images further back in this thread. However, all the Alde radiators are and pipes are placed way above the Fresh water pipes and tanks.

When I get around to it (so many things to do at the moment). I intend to send Frankia and email questioning the insulation properties and the issues we have had. However, I have a feeling this may involve a trip to Germany, something I would like to do but do not have the time!.

I will keep you posted.

TM


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## trek

Hi Trev

did you ever get around to mentioning to Frankia that your waste valve froze in the service locker ?

Just to let you know but mine did as well on my last ski trip (average around -13 at night)


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## teemyob

*Frozen Frankia*



trek said:


> Hi Trev
> 
> did you ever get around to mentioning to Frankia that your waste valve froze in the service locker ?
> 
> Just to let you know but mine did as well on my last ski trip (average around -13 at night)


Hello Trek,

No not yet, need to get around to doing it soon, a case of finding time.

Our Fresh water pipes and drain froze at around -6c. Not impressed, the Eura we had at -22.5c and everything stayed working perfect.

Was it just your waste?

TM


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## trek

Hi TM

Just the waste (outlet valve & pipe) froze as far as I know - I went to empty it into a bucket and the valve lever wouldn't budge later on with the sun on the locker the lever operated but no water came out. drained tank via plug in middle of tank instead, later on that day all was back to normal .

P.S. I didn't use the fresh water hose in the service locker to refill so I don't know if this was affected.

Yes the Merc's built by Frankia have heating in the double floor area but these pipes tend not to drop down to either side of the van into the lockers 
( could be a job for the autumn to extend my ALDE heating by adding a secondary circuit around the lockers & the cab)


TM on another topic but somewhat related I have started cutting access doors into these low side locker rear walls so that I can access the services within the double floor, this was partly due to the antifreeze leak that I had ( I wanted to make sure I mopped up all the fluid) but they do make it so much easier to run in extra wiring pipes etc, & it is surprising how much wasted usable space is hidden away out of sight in the double floor around these lockers, the boxing in of the lockers could be why the lockers are getting cold as the warm air can not circulate into them ?


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## darach

Hi Trek,
Didn't realise this thread was running. Our waste pipe valve froze last year at -10. We contacted our dealer and had a couple of other small problems and he arranged for an appointment at the factory in September as we were planning a holiday to Germany anyway.
Nice place to stay, but ended up being there a full week. They cut open the box around the services and plumbed in 2 new radiators in to the Aldi system, obviously a design fault. This winter we had a few occasions where it was down to - 15 and had no problems whatsoever. The people at the factory are very nice but they use the workshops for habitation checks and normal repairs so it was extremely busy when we were there.
Derek


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## trek

Derek could you provide details of the mods that the Frankia service centre did to your van heating - perhaps a photo?

I'm sure Teemyob would also be interested to hear what Frankia did


I've been thinking off adding an additional circuit around the lockers ready for next winter 



7 WEEKS skiing WOW !!

two other issues that I have recently had are:-

I had to strengthen my rear double bed as it was bowing in the middle I put two timber cross members underneath the bed in the garage

Also have a problem with my roof rack as one of the screws has pulled out of the roof lifting the checker plate (and another one loose)- I suspect its because the aluminum has contracted during the winter and pulled the screw out. this allowed water to get under the checker plate & potentially into the roof!
Just waiting to here what Frankia are going to do about it


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## teemyob

*Froze*



darach said:


> Hi Trek,
> Didn't realise this thread was running. Our waste pipe valve froze last year at -10. We contacted our dealer and had a couple of other small problems and he arranged for an appointment at the factory in September as we were planning a holiday to Germany anyway.
> Nice place to stay, but ended up being there a full week. They cut open the box around the services and plumbed in 2 new radiators in to the Aldi system, obviously a design fault. This winter we had a few occasions where it was down to - 15 and had no problems whatsoever. The people at the factory are very nice but they use the workshops for habitation checks and normal repairs so it was extremely busy when we were there.
> Derek


Hello Dereke,

Thanks for the info. Trek suggested I contact Frankia as our waste and fresh water pipes froze at -6 this year.

Just not got around to it yet.

TM


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## darach

Hi
Took photos but cant load them on to the forum,as it says maximum 1 mb and photos are 4.9mb. How do I go about changing them?
Forgot about the bed, when we were at the factory they fitted a aluminium strut across the middle of the bed in the garage, I noticed in their showroom a 2010 model with this strut fitted a standard.
Not 7 weeks skiiing, 7 weeks away but did do a lot of skiing. 
Cant help with the roof ladder, we dont have a roof ladder or roof bars. Causes a problem when it is snowing for clearing of roof.

Derek


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## trek

Thanks Derek

I will PM you with my email address perhaps you could send the photos to me & I will reduce them in size & post them here

I would also be very interested in a photo of Frankias alluminium bed mod if thats not too much trouble


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## trek

Darachs photo of the additional radiators that the Frankia factory service centre fitted to prevent the waste valve & pipework freezing 

(when at ski resorts in the winter)

I noticed that they have also cut a ventilation slot right at the top of the back locker wall to allow air to circulate


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## Esba

Hi Esba here, my system is eberspaecher warm water heating diesel hydronic not Alde can i fit a heat exchanger to the system


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## teemyob

*diesel*



Esba said:


> Hi Esba here, my system is eberspaecher warm water heating diesel hydronic not Alde can i fit a heat exchanger to the system


I think so!

Depends on the design.

Maybe someone else who is more certain may be along soon.

TM


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## trek

Hi Esba

Yes you can add the Alde Heat Exchanger to your camper ( if you have a wet system with finned radiators as can be seen in the photo on this page ) between the engine coolant system & the wet camper Eberspacher system

I would consider cutting into the Heater pipes in the engine compartment that go to the dash heater matrix you could make either a serial or parallel connection with the heat exchange to the heater matrix and possibly add valves to control the flow through the exchanger during the summer 

( you would be wise to ensure any metal pipes or fittings is compatable with your engine (ie no copper - not sure about brass etc - so as you will have an aluminum engine then aluminum or plastic fittings would be ok)

I would position the exchanger internally to limit heat loss when using the Eberspacher when on site for heating but try to keep pipe runs short and avoid air traps or fit ALDE fittings with air vents at high spots - I suspect that the Eberspacher side is using 22mm pipe work & Alde bends / fittings etc 

( have you realised that by fitting this you effectively could use this to pre heat your engine from the Eberspacher with the addition of a pump on the engine side (this pump is already standard on many merc sprinters ) )


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## Esba

Hi Trek thanks for your help I have contacted Alde and ebespaecher for information and prices will keepyou informed Regards


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