# Replacing Halogen Habitation lamps for LED



## spindrifter (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi All

Am considering replacing my Halogen Habitation lamps for LED arrays. I have been in contact with Saul at Aten Lighting who is really helpful.

Could some-one tell me how the LEDs compare with the Halogen.

Whether the warm white is better than cold white. How the output compares. Is the light diffused or concentrated. Is the light ok for reading etc etc. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I have been advised to try G4s and 4LED MR11s.

Cheers and thanks in anticipation

David.................(Spindrifter)


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

spindrifter said:


> Could some-one tell me how the LEDs compare with the Halogen.
> Whether the warm white is better than cold white.


Brilliant.

Warm white.


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## trackerman (Aug 16, 2005)

Spindrifter - I had a thread on this subject a few weeks ago - please look for:

"Fitting replacement LED bulbs - HELP!!!"

(I'm sorry, but I don't know how to insert a "link"!).

Stuart


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## Rocles (May 1, 2005)

Here's that Previous Thread


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

hi there

I replaced my lights after buying a load at the Pickering show from Aten.

I have 4 small halogens above the hob, they gave off a really nice warm bright light.
With the new bulbs, the light is about 90% as bright possibly even the same... it's difficult to judge... the light is still not as warm looking as the halogens... even though I bought the warm white versions. Ours are the [alledged] 4 LED brighter versions.

I have over the last few weeks got use to the light.

My friend who also bought the same lights, but bought the cool versions... which now he doesn't like... as they are too blue!

Not going to say I told him so...

I think if you are not wildcamping, leave the halogens in!
I never had a TV when wildcamping and so never had a problem with the halogens... this may change now I've bought a 19" Flatscreen!

HTH

Wilse


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## oxford-wanderer (May 20, 2008)

Hi David

Its one of those opinion things, some prefer one to another.

We bought some of the LEDs from Aten at the show at Shepton. We chose the bright ones for the washroom and over the sink etc and warm white for the living area. I don't think they are quite as bright as the halogen but our lights where a little too bright when watching tv, but that also depends where they are situated in your MH.

You should also get 5% discount from Aten for being a member of MHFs.  

Paul


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## spindrifter (Nov 14, 2006)

trackerman/hilldweller/Rocles

Excellent thread. Just the info I needed.

Thanks a lot. Will order LEDs this weekend.

Thanks again

David


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## spindrifter (Nov 14, 2006)

oxford-wanderer

We crossed. So missed your feedback.

Thanks for your advice too.

Cheers

David


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## trackerman (Aug 16, 2005)

Rocles - how did you do that???

Stuart


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## Rocles (May 1, 2005)

trackerman said:


> Rocles - how did you do that???
> 
> Stuart


Just use the SEARCH box at the top, find the text you quoted, then rightclick on the Link title text, and then do a normal Reply. Click on the picture of the World with a Chainlink in it, its one of the Buttons above the Text box where you type the Reply...then just Paste the link in the box that appears


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

I changed 2 of the halogens over the settee for LEDS. 

One or other of us usually sits there reading at night and to be truthful, they are useless  

So its back to the halogens for us; not that it really matters, we spend most of the time on the EHU anyway


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## passionwagon (Nov 13, 2005)

spindrifter said:


> Hi All
> 
> Am considering replacing my Halogen Habitation lamps for LED arrays. I have been in contact with Saul at Aten Lighting who is really helpful.
> 
> ...


 8O Whenever I have enquired about doing this I have been advised that LEDs require a driver which will not be in the halogen circuit. Can someone advise how they got the lamp to work? \/


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## trackerman (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi Passionwagon

So long as you buy the correct LED's they are direct plug-in replacements for the 12V DC halogens in your 'van - have a look at the various suppliers web sites for further details.

Stuart


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

well I have done a few experiments with LED replacements. And I was rather disappointed:  

On the last Düsseldorf show I had bought 3 LED replacements for standard 10W halogen bulbs. Each contained 7 so-called "warm-white" LEDs. My intention was to replace the 3 halogen spots over our main dinette, as these are the ones most frequently used in our van. 

To start with, one of the 3 replacements was already dead when I took it out of the package, so had to be sent back to the dealer for warranty replacement. Meanwhile, with only two units available, I decided to install them nevertheless. Which lead to disappointment no. 1:

Before replacing, the 3 halogen spots delivered sufficient light for reading. Now, even with one of the halogens still in place, light intensity had dropped so much that reading was not possible anymore. So we had to switch on additional light sources, which nullified any energy saving effect. 

Still waiting for the warranty exchange, I therefore put back the halogens over the table and put the LEDs into our "bathroom". Here are two 10W halogen spots identical to those over the table, mounted over the mirror. Again, the loss of light intensity was immediately visible. And next morning, both wife and daughter (whom I had not informed about the change) complained that "there was something wrong with the light". Not bright enough for beauty care anymore, and "so cold". So I admitted what I had done, and tried to convince them about the advantages regarding longer battery life etc. But after shaving under this light several times, I grudgingly had to agree that the ladies were not totally wrong after all. So, disappointment no. 2, but I still left the LEDs in place.

Meanwhile, the warranty replacement had arrived, so I installed it over our habitation door. This light is not used for long periods, so the loss in intensity seems acceptable. 

However, the very next morning, one of the two LEDs in the bathroom started to flicker and then failed completely. Now I finally had enough and put the halogens back in again. Disappointment no. 3.

In parallel, as I had to replace some of the dashboard lights anyway, I tried out some LED replacements there, too. Main concern here was not energy saving, but I wanted to replace the ordinary light bulbs by something more durable. It is not too easy to take out the instrument panel in a Ducato. 

However, the LEDs turned out to be even less durable than the bulbs. Out of 10 LEDs that I had ordered, 2 were already dead on arrival, and two more failed after only a few hours of operation. In addition, their light was much more focussed than that of the bulbs, which made the whole instrument panel lighting rather inhomogeneous, unacceptable for driving. So, disappointment no. 4, I finally took them all out again and put the bulbs back in. 

Of course, it could be that the LED replacements that I had obtained were low-grade products built around older, less efficient LED models. (Which at least was not reflected in the price...) But for the time being at least I have had enough of them. 

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

Boff said:


> Hi,well I have done a few experiments with LED replacements. And I was rather disappointed:


You are the victim of poor quality LEDS. All LEDs are not equal. They improve all the time.

I am delighted with my LEDs from UltraLEDs. The 10W replacements are 4 LED clusters.

To replace the 36W spot in the Burstner "flying saucer" I first tried a 27 LED cluster. Useless. Small low powered LEDS x 27 is still small light output. So I bought 3 of the 10W style 4 LED clusters and spaced these round the rim ( and left the other in the middle ) and now we have better more even lighting than before.

Don't give up.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

hilldweller said:


> You are the victim of poor quality LEDS.


Could very well be. They looked rather impressive on the show booth, though. And they were definitely not low-price... :evil:

Nevertheless, probably I will not follow this "LED replacement bulb" route anymore. My next attempt will be to replace a complete ceiling-mounted spot light with a one that is designed for LEDs. And make sure that the LED itself comes from a renowned top brand such as Luxeon or Cree.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

Boff said:


> hilldweller said:
> 
> 
> > I will not follow this "LED replacement bulb" route anymore.
> ...


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## Bobfiggis (Mar 30, 2008)

I too, am happy with the LEDs I got from Ultraleds, especially the 30 LED strip to replace 4 x 10w bulbs in the bathroom.

There does however seem to be a difference of opinion from MHF members on the effect of LEDS vv halogens in fittings which are primarily used for reading, as opposed to general illumination. This could, as has been said, be down to quality of the LED itself.

Whilst many LEDs (mine included) seem to be as bright as halogens, I wonder if the level of light reaching the page of a book, at say 2 or 3 feet from the light source is as good as a halogen +reflector.

Has anyone with a light meter (or similar) measured the comparable light levels at varying distances from the fitting , LEDS vv halogens ??


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## trackerman (Aug 16, 2005)

It's interesting that the postings in this thread, and my own previous thread on this subject, appear to show that approximately 50% are very happy with their LED's and the other 50% are somewhat disappointed (and often revert to their previous halogens because of the insufficient light level from the LED's).

Any thoughts on why there is this distinct polarisation in the results?

Stuart


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## spindrifter (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi All

To date I have not ordered any LEDs. After reading all your feedback (for which a thank you) I am not sure if it is the way to go at the moment. Short of seeing and experiencing the output and focus of LEDs "in situ" for myself - it will be difficult to make a decision either way. We both enjoy reading so a good light source, both in the hab area as well as in the bed, is important to us. And, as we intend to spend 3 months away in Europe in the near future on a regular basis and where EHU can be often times be hard to find - conserving our 12 volt energy is important to us. Output and reliability seem to be the two concerns. Both of these are crucial. The cost should guarantee the reliability- but that does not always follow!! But for me over-riding factor is the quality and quantity (readability) of the output. If I cannot read a book, map, campsite review or any other written word when parked up for the night -then it would be a waste of time and money for me to fit LEDs.

Thanks as always 

David


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

spindrifter said:


> To date I have not ordered any LEDs.
> David


Go on, be a devil. I started by ordering just a couple.

These are good:

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/ultimate-with-leds-back-pins-warm-white-p-1672.html

This is awesome as an awning light but to stark inside.

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/acdc-cool-white-leds-dome-light-lumen-p-1393.html


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

I think you get what you pay for, two warm white MR11 bulbs from Aten£16, with the 4 led,s excellent, 10 snides for £30 off ebay want binning.


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Current technology (the make/brand makes a difference) watt for watt cannot compete with halogen. As a guide, the best on the market currently puts out about 65% of the lumens that a halogen does.

It can and will get better though. My new build camper had one 10w halogen (now LED), two map reading type affairs on bendy stalks (LED bulbs not yet available for these) and two good old fashioned strip lights. The best for light...you already know don't you- the strips by a mile, but they are quite a harsh light but we like that.

So much so that I'm going to replace my warm white LED which is a good colour match for the halogen, to the blue white LED.


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## tresrikay (Nov 21, 2006)

I replaced all my lighting in the van last Feb and I am delighted with the lighting and the low draw. Coupled witha solar panel and Gaslow refillable gas I now think I am well placed to survive.
I have a mix of cheap 2 pronged halogen replacements in the bathroom and some lamps. A couple of warm light squre chip light spreads, anbd some M11 and M16 even a bus bulb replacement. I have even changed the awning lights. The whole thing cost over £70 but I shouldnt have to ever buy a bulb again ( I have a couple of spares) I notice no difference apart from not now burning my fingers when fumbling for a switch and can last for days without hookup which is my main intention, to never pay for 230v again.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Andysam said:


> Current technology (the make/brand makes a difference) watt for watt cannot compete with halogen.


Well, meanwhile at least some of them can. Currently available LEDs like the Luxeon K2 have a luminous efficacy of 65 lm/W, while a halogen lamp is at around 35 lm/W.

Commercially available LEDs are however still far away from competing with fluorescent lamps.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

I fitted two LED reading lights, and that is all that they are good for. Anything more that 3feet away is not sufficiently illuminated. The reasoning is in the description. Light Emitting Diodes, that is exactly what they do, they emit light, they do not transmit light. I tried an experiment at home replacing halogens with LEDs in one room, they lasted two days before I changed them back. The light has such a short range that they did not even illuminate the floor. They are primarily designed as indicators, which is why they are becoming more popular as side and rear lights on a car, because they are extremely bright but the light doesn't travel.
Fortunately, we have flourescents as standard throughout the MH, which are still the most efficient lights available for general use.
Gerry


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

GerryD said:


> they emit light, they do not transmit light.


You'd better tell Audi to withdraw their LED headlamps before they make a fool of themselves.

You seem like another victim of The Wrong LED, they do work, many people are reporting this on MHF.

I will agree that they may not work every time as simple plug in replacements.

There is no question of them saving electricity which is a prime concern to us.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



hilldweller said:


> You seem like another victim of The Wrong LED, they do work, many people are reporting this on MHF.


I have now browsed the market a little bit, and unfortunately there seem to be more wrong than right LEDs. When I look at all these christmas-tree-like contraptions, probably botched together in some sweat-shops, they can only be wrong.

And the wrong LEDs obviously do not contribute to saving electric energy. Same goes for the "right LEDs in the wrong place".

Which is one of the explanations for the phenomenon that Stuart has observed:


trackerman said:


> It's interesting that the postings in this thread, and my own previous thread on this subject, appear to show that approximately 50% are very happy with their LED's and the other 50% are somewhat disappointed (and often revert to their previous halogens because of the insufficient light level from the LED's).


Another explanation could probably be found in the different preconditions: If a van is already "over-equipped" with halogen spots, then an intensity loss due to change to LEDs will probably be acceptable for the user. However, in a van like mine in which we are used to only 3 10W halogen spots to illuminate the complete 4-seat dinette area adequately for reading, any loss of intensity would be rather annoying.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I have changed all my lamps to G4 leds. I have found them to be as good as the 10w halogens.
I bought a batch of 7 from ledcity on ebay. They contain 18 leds. G4 ultra bright warm white. 3500 Kelvin, 75 lumen.


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