# Caxton Card Fraud



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Just had contact from Caxton who have blocked my card after £1,184.69 has been taken from my account via several unauthorised transactions to insurance companies.

Suspect it was cloned when last used at an Indian restaurant whilst in Dublin for rugby in January. :surprise:

Worth checking your balance if you have a card.

Terry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Ouch !


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> Ouch !


Yeah, bit concerned that the debits were contrary to any previous spends I've authorised, i.e. dubious debits were all UK based and in sterling, but not picked up until over £1k was debited.

Terry


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

What (if anything) have Caxton said about it?? 

I had an “issue” with an American Express card a few years ago after using it in?????

Dublin !!!! 

It was an attempted purchase of computer kit from an American company, for delivery to Croatia, using a U.K. registered card! The American company smelled a rat so queried the purchase with Amex, who queried it with me. 

Andy


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Mrplodd said:


> What (if anything) have Caxton said about it??
> 
> I had an "issue" with an American Express card a few years ago after using it in?????
> 
> ...


They advised me to raise a dispute online, they will respond within two days. I did explain I was surprised they didn't catch it sooner as I've never used the card in GB or ever completed a sterling transaction in five years, only ever Euro transactions.

I asked what action they are likely to take re investigating the business in Dublin I last used my card. They intimated that it was sort of up to me to report it to the police, I found it quite a surprising response as surely it's in their interest to investigate cloning card terminals.

My wife had a similar experience with her Amex card a year ago with attempts to use it in Florida, although Amex spotted it immediately and blocked her card.

Terry


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't think that the banks or credit card companies make any attempt to report it to the police and I don't think that the police have any desire to have it reported to them.

Some years ago I attended a conference in a 5* hotel in Mayfair and left my briefcase with the coats people over the counter in the cloakroom. The briefcase didn't have a lot in it other than papers and a chequebook. A couple of days later I happened to go online to look at my bank account and saw that I had gone overdrawn that day by nearly £5k. My first reaction was to admonish Mrs P for not telling me and then I realised that the cheque number was from my chequebook! I then realised that it had been removed from the middle of the chequebook with the counterfoil also removed so that it wouldn't be obvious that a cheque had been taken.

I phoned Barclays and told them that they were attempting to clear a fraudulent cheque and that they should stop it and their only response was that they would send me a form to report it! I said that I could identify the place and time (plus the person probably) who had done it and they said they didn't need that information and nor would they report it to the police.

Barclays refunded me the money but I guess someone probably made off with several thousand pounds and no-one was bothered! And even if they managed to stop the money going to the thief, he probably carried on doing it and may still be doing it to this day - about twelve years later!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

MrsW had a card fraud and the card had only been used away from her ONCE before - at Maplins. Her card was stopped while we were away for a week in France. She lost £7k but the bank "forgot to tell her about that transaction" while checking. They only blocked the card because having got the £7k the perpetrators (probably) tried to raise her credit limit and mucked up the security questions.

It took three WEEKS before she found out about the £7k when her statement arrived. They apologised and THEN tried to recall the money from the Building Society where an account had been opened and the money transferred. The account had been cleared one WEEK before she found out about the fraud, if they had told her at the time they could have recalled the money and possibly apprehended the criminals.

The Police were not interested and said it is the Bank's responsibility so it does NOT appear in crime figures - deception that crime is being reduced IMO.

Sadly the Banks like to keep it quiet if they can as it reflects badly on their security. It is cheaper for them to cover the loss (in many, but not all, cases).


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Personally I will not do any financial transactions or download any bank apps to my phone.
Accessing accounts online with the security provided on the PC is bad enough and now we read online fraud is the biggest growth 'industry' in the western world.

Ray.


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

i have an account that i only use on the internet when i want to purchase anything i pay money into the account in cash then use it i know this may sound stupid but i have never had a problem with fraud as ther is usually only about £10 in it with no overdraft facility


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Thankfully the issue has been resolved to my satisfaction. :grin2:

You have to wonder about the fixation with insurance companies.

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You have to wonder how that works at all. Every insurance transaction will be completely and very easily traceable. There's no way money could be sent fraudulently to an insurance company and then siphoned out to go to some brand of crook.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> You have to wonder how that works at all. Every insurance transaction will be completely and very easily traceable. There's no way money could be sent fraudulently to an insurance company and then siphoned out to go to some brand of crook.


Yeah it perplexes me too Alan.

Terry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Update, new card delivered fraudulent transactions and associated charges credited back to my account. 

Unfortunately they credited it back as sterling although all my card funds were euros. No online facility for me to reverse back to euros apart from transferring it back to my source sterling card and incurring the associated charges then transferring back as euros and a loss due to a lower exchange rate.

Phone call to them cleared the situation up with them setting my account back to the situation before the fraud with no extra charges.

Terry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Further fallout from the fraud.

Received this letter today from Hastings Direct, they have obviously been one of the insurance companies my card details was used against. I have never insured any vehicle with Hastings Direct.

They have handed it to their fraud team but did advise that I logged the incident on the 'ActionFraud' database.

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/reporting-fraud-and-cyber-crime

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Do you know how they got your address Terry?


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Could be as simple as the phone book as the card has my name on it, the transaction I suspect the cloning occurred was made in Dublin and the NI accent would give a good starting point, but I'm sure such people have other more devious ways.

Terry


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Is it not very odd that the fraudsters apparently took out insurance in your name? Would it not have to be in their name to be of any benefit to them?


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> Is it not very odd that the fraudsters apparently took out insurance in your name? Would it not have to be in their name to be of any benefit to them?


Not having a criminal mind I don't know Jean. :grin2:

Would work if they were adding a named driver I suppose.

Terry


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Or maybe they're just not very bright.

It did seem odd that they'd used your details to get 4 lots of insurance, was it? 

Aye, not very bright.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> Or maybe they're just not very bright.
> 
> It did seem odd that they'd used your details to get 4 lots of insurance, was it?
> 
> Aye, not very bright.


8 different payment amounts to 4 Insurance Companies, the mind boggles Jean ???

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Seems to me that whoever did this had no intention or even hope of getting money for themselves. How would buying insurances ever get them money?

For money they'd have used it in a cash machine or bought some saleable items. Computers, TVs etc. and sold them on.

I also don't see how having a card with a name on it could yield an address via phone books or the like. The chances of getting the right person are slim. Getting cash or buying computers wouldn't require any address, never mind the correct one.

It's odd in the extreme.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> Seems to me that whoever did this had no intention or even hope of getting money for themselves. How would buying insurances ever get them money?
> 
> For money they'd have used it in a cash machine or bought some saleable items. Computers, TVs etc. and sold them on.
> 
> ...


Certainly very odd although the spelling of my surname is unusual and narrows things down considerably.

Terry


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

We have a Caxton Card but have never had this problem. 
Santander always text immediately if either I process an unusual amount or a non declared location or amount are used. Got a text at 7.15am one morning asking if I was in China spending £37.00 when I said no they cancelled my card, had a new one for me in 3 days and credited the amount.

Dave


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

dghr272 said:


> Just had contact from Caxton who have blocked my card after £1,184.69 has been taken from my account via several unauthorised transactions to insurance companies.
> 
> Suspect it was cloned when last used at an Indian restaurant whilst in Dublin for rugby in January. :surprise:
> 
> ...


I can only assume that you allowed the card to be taken away from yourself this is when cloning can happen, this is something we never do. It stays in our sight at all times. If I am incorrect I apologise.

Dave


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Maybe by buying insurance with a stolen card they can then cancel the insurance and get a refund by an alternative means eg direct to a bank account ?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Here's one way they can clone cards without taking it away from you https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/h...d_cloning_device_off_Headington_cash_machine/


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

DJMotorhomer said:


> I can only assume that you allowed the card to be taken away from yourself this is when cloning can happen, this is something we never do. It stays in our sight at all times. If I am incorrect I apologise.
> 
> Dave


Apology accepted, the card never leaves my sight.

My understanding is that they can attach their skimming electronics within the handheld terminal, so be aware the card can be compromised without taking it away, or as Alan's link mentions attach it to the external part of the terminal. I can assure the terminal in question had nothing visible attached.

Terry

One well organised fraud, but the same electronic bits can be added by an individual thief tampering with a single terminal.

How many folk check the seals are intact or weigh the terminal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...as-netted-millions-from-British-shoppers.html

Terry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

*Update from Hastings*


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