# Driving Licence help



## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi 
I live in France and now have a French driving licence which due to my passing the UK driving test in 1964 allows me to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes.
As I am over 60, I have to have a medical every two years, but I wouldn't have to, if it could be shown that I had passed my test prior to Jan 1975. (which I did.)
When I changed my UK licence to the 2 part licence in June 1975, June 1975 was the date that the licence ran from and so the French authorities assume that this was the date I passed my test.
I have been in touch with DVLA and they say that no records are held prior to 1975, so cannot confirm the date I passed my test, or even send me a letter confirming that I passed prior to Jan 1975!!
Has anyone had a similar experience or found a way around this problem?
I cannot believe that the records have been destroyed, maybe they are archived somewhere and DVLA cannot be bothered to look for them.
Sorry to be longwinded and thank you for reading this post.
Kind regards
Alshymer


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Alshymer

This may be a daft suggestion because I bet you have checked, but . . . 

Doesn't the paper part of the new licence still have all the original data on it?

I'm almost certain it does, but can't check mine just now.

Dave


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi there, i would have thought that having a medical every two years is a good thing to do , i know that its a lot of time and money no doubt wasted but still has that one good piece of mind in the knowledge of being healthy (or something being found early!) do you have your original licence that could prove when you passed your test? sorry not much help.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry - it was a daft suggestion.  

I just went and checked mine and it doesn't have the info you need.

Dave


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Driving Licence Help*

Hi Dave 
Thanks for your reply.
It says 17.06.1975 on the paper copy unfortunately.
Kind regards
Alshymer


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

My new driving license that I got as replacement for my old pink paper one has all the dates against the categories on the back.
I passed my motorcycle test 24-04-75 and all the other dates are there too.

The dates are all "From" "To" from being the date of test

Sorry cant help with pre 75


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

alshymer said:


> Hi
> I live in France and now have a French driving licence which due to my passing the UK driving test in 1964 allows me to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes.
> As I am over 60, I have to have a medical every two years, but I wouldn't have to, if it could be shown that I had passed my test prior to Jan 1975. (which I did.)
> When I changed my UK licence to the 2 part licence in June 1975, June 1975 was the date that the licence ran from and so the French authorities assume that this was the date I passed my test.
> ...


Hi Alshymer.
Not much help but my now French driving license including the HGV part does indicate from 1975 even though I being one of those pedantic buqqers have kept my old UK red driving license from 1972.

I'm sure I have presented the 1972 license UK (copy) to the french authorities when changing to a French one but maybe they don't have any need to put prior to 1975.

Ray.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

are you sure?

my understanding is that when you swap to the licence of another country you keep your categories from the country where you passed your test but that does not included the grandfather right to 7.5 tonnes or things like the administrative provisions for renewal, medicals etc which are those of the new country.

I passed in 1973 in GB and 1976 in IOM, I had dual IOM and GB passes and licences. I still have my 1976 IOM red book licence.

I swapped to Irealnd in respect of my GB licence about 3 years ago and I checked the position. I did this because reciprocity of bans was introduced between GB and IOM. Previoulsy that did not apply. 
There is no reciprocity between UK and Irland or IOM and Ireland, yet. It's a sort of just in case security.

I have grandfather rights in GB and in IOM re 7.5 tonnes but not in Ireland when driving on my Irish licence.


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## Trippytinker (Feb 17, 2011)

Sorry to say this but I know someone who spent a lot of time dealing with the DVLA with the same sort of problem and the result was that there is no documentation held on record regarding driving test pass dates prior to the 'new' system. As he doesn't have his original paper licence which shows the date the test was passed to the date it expires, he just has to accept the rule


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

In extremis, file a Freedom of Information Act request, either direct or through you MP, for the info on evidence of having passed your test and the date.

In the abscence of that info being forthcoming (Lost, stolen or incompetenc/cannot be bothered - not a defence if an MP asks) request a letter from HM Government to the French authorities stating that HM Government believes that you did pass your test on [a relevant date] and that they support your application.

HM Government work for us and at our expense.

Sometimes in Government departments 'work' is a loose or swear word. I do not include some very clever Civil Servants, who manage to, partially, keep the politicians off our backs.

Geoff


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I can't believe I'm suggesting this Alshymer 8O   but knowing the French penchant for beaurocracy, couldn't you provide a truthful and very official looking document and hope they just rubber stamp it?

I see nothing morally wrong with that if the data you provide is honest and accurate, and if you don't actually pretend that it's a legal document.

It might work, and you have lost nothing if it doeasn't.

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Trippytinker said:


> Sorry to say this but I know someone who spent a lot of time dealing with the DVLA with the same sort of problem and the result was that there is no documentation held on record regarding driving test pass dates prior to the 'new' system. As he doesn't have his original paper licence which shows the date the test was passed to the date it expires, he just has to accept the rule


Looking at this the other way round, I passed my HGV 1 in 1970, didn't I Mr. Government?

So we could be all home and dry - or up the street without a paddle?

Geoff


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> I can't believe I'm suggesting this Alshymer 8O   but knowing the French penchant for beaurocracy, couldn't you provide a truthful and very official looking document and hope they just rubber stamp it?
> 
> I see nothing morally wrong with that if the data you provide is honest and accurate, and if you don't actually pretend that it's a legal document.
> 
> ...


Dave you might have the answer there.

It is possible to swear an 'Affidavit' (Do not know if this translates) that one passed on a certain date, have it Notarised (suggest by a French Notaire (you know what the French are like - Bless 'em)

It might be easier than my earlier suggestion of a FoI request.

Or, if you fancy a bit of fun, do both.

Geoff


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi
Thank you all. I think Zebedee's suggestion might be worth pursuing.
One can carry Grandfather rights through to a French licence as indeed I have done.
With a camper over 3500Kgs in France, providing you have passed your test prior to Jan 1975, the Prefecture will stamp the licence Camping Car and then one has the right to drive without medical in perpetuity.
As regards the medical it is around 55€ for a guy to tinkle a bell behind your ear and touch your toes etc. Not really worth having!!
Kind regards
Alshymer


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Doing a bit of lateral thinking, do you have any insurance docs or been with the same broker since 1964, I know it's unlikely, but it might jog you onto a different tack to solve the problem.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

My medical to renew my French GUV driving license is just €24.40 every two years at a special doctor appointed by the Prefecture.

He gives me a thorough examination including eyes, reflexes, hearing, respiratory, etc. Well worth the small fee.

Ray.


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## jonse (Nov 2, 2008)

*licence*

Glad I Saw this article as my plastic is up December big 70,I Have no address in UK will need to change to a French one,lucky me I kept my old one but not my first original,but my second one has a 73 date so thanks for starting this thread,now must get off my arse and get it sorted


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Can't check cos mine is not at hand but aren’t all licences numbered and shouldn't that number be able to be decoded to give the year of first issue? Like a passport or DSS number or is that too simple?

Dick


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Pasport numbers have no relation to date of birth or 1st issue, you get a new, different, number each time one is issued to you. Driving Licences in the UK are date of birth related in the numbering sequence, but nothing more. The other sequence of numbers and letters represents name and random numbers; otherwise two people with te same surname, born same date, passing test on same date would have same number. Each number is unique.

Note what is said about Grandfather rights transferring but no one has taken up the medical conditions point I made, ie that it is the law of your current licence country, not of the country where you passed your test which applies to that aspect


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*EU driving licence regulations*

 A lot of unnecessary angst and bandying around of 'expert' misinformation here.
Suggest a read of :

ec.europa.en/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving/faq/index_en.htm

paragraph 'I'm moving to another European country'.

Relative directives are 
91/439/CEE
2006/126/EC
2009/113/EC

saluti,
eddied


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

I think it is worth writing to the DVLA to investigate for you. 

Scared to admit this but I worked there for a while and have some, if not hazy memory of the technology and archiving systems. 

The very oldest information was scanned and held on microfiche, so without actually asking for copies of the original documents, a telephone enquiries officer would not be able to ascertain 'exactly' what information had set up your original driver's record. This is usually done as 'casework', when someone makes a driver enquiry by letter (in the days I worked there, it may be possible to do this by email these days - you need to check).

You could call again, asking if there are original microfiche docs that may be available and hope for a conscientious enquiries clerk; or just write/email and see what comes up. There may be a charge for accessing old docs (I'm afraid I left the job 15 years ago). But I can tell you we used to store information in this manner and also we used to send original documents back to the drivers with the old fashioned licences and log books if the customer requested it at the time of registration.

Good luck, worth another go at least (I would say).

Debs :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Driving licence help*

Hi
Just a line to thank Lunarcampingqueen so much for the information she gave to me. 
I e.mailed as she suggested, but now have to write to DVRE 5, D7,DVLA 
Swansea SA6 7JL. 
The fee is £5 for them to send me the required information. 
Many thanks as I was hitting a brick wall otherwise. 
Kind regards 
Alshymer


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Just hope I don't get marked down as the DVLA customer advisor for MHF!

I left there 14 years ago and am still in therapy! :lol: :lol: 

Hope they find what you are looking for. :wink: 

Debs


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

eddied

thanks for the link. 

There is at least one Q&A that is wrong, the one about being a Belgian llicenceholder living in Spain and being banned there. The ban is said in the A to be world wide as it was given in the home country (Spain). That just is not true, Spanish bans have no extraterritorial effect, neither do English ones, (apart from in the IOM which has a reciprocity of ban agreement and legislation), etc.

The true answer is that once banned in your country of residence you cannot drive in your home country at all; or outside of your home country unless you have a valid licence issued elsewhere. In the case in the Q&A there is no reciprocity between Spain and Belgium, or additionally the driver may have a valid licence issued eleswhere, in that case the driver banned in Spain, whilst living in Spain, can drive anywhere but Spain on his Belgian licence or a licence issued elsewhere.

It does confirm that the local requiremenst however re testing, medicals, length of licence apply, and not all cataefories are reciprovally recognised and that applies to grandfather rights, they may, or may not be recognised on transfer of the licenec, that may be absolute or discretionary.

Its what I pointed out above

It would be stupid it it were otherwise, you could just change address, ie cliam to be back in Belgium, or France, or wherever, and you licence becomes valid again?


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

alshymer said:


> Hi
> With a camper over 3500Kgs in France, providing you have passed your test prior to Jan 1975, the Prefecture will stamp the licence Camping Car and then one has the right to drive without medical in perpetuity.


I seem to recall their's no weight restriction either, unlike our grandfather rights which only cover up to 7.5 ton.

Ian


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## jonse (Nov 2, 2008)

*Driving Licence*

After reading Angloinfo France It seems no change of licence Is necessary to a French one, and as from next year there is a new standard licence for all of the EU that will come in


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Driving Licence Help*

Hi
I didn't think that I would have to post again on this subject but thanks to our ever helpful DVLA I am having to.
On my last post I had been told by DVLA that if I sent in a cheque for £5 the information would be forthcoming, so I did.
The information that eventually came was a printed form of my driving history (with endorsements etc,sorry officer!!) but guess what only to 1976!!.
I rang a Linda Evans at Swansea who was helpful, but eventual told me that there was nothing more she could do-not even give me a statement saying that I passed my test before Jan1975 which was all I required.
I did in fact take my test in 1964.
So another brick wall -maybe permanent this time!
Kind regards
Alshymer


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