# better mpg



## GlynR

Hi, just got back from Lincoln motorhome show what a fanstastic weekend, whilst there I came across a gadget for reducing fuel consumption on all types of vehicles, it was called the Sunpulse unit, is there anyone who has tried it and does it work ?


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## Zebedee

I hope it works better than their translator!!!

_"Sunpulse Intelligent Electronic Car Equipment provides the electric source through your battery. The self-provided voltage can distinguish electric switch automatically. When the voltage is less than 12.6v, it cut out in order to protect your battery efficiently, therefore guarantees normal start up of the car. When the output voltage is no less than 12.4v, Sunpulse equipment will start up and produce a 1KHZ momentary impulse, and then enter into the working condition. Meanwhile, it can stabilize the impulse in a stable value, which is strong and concentrate and is also supplied to the ignition end of the spark plug stably. The impulse can make the atomized granules of Hydrogen separate and stop grouping for a better burn. It will also reduce the accumulation of the Carbon, Your engine will run cleaner, Increase the Torque,enhance the MPH and the MPG. Increase the running capability to a great extent."_

Never read such a load of cobblers in my life. 8O 8O :roll:

If it can "_ . . . stabilize the impulse in a stable value, which is strong and concentrate and is also supplied to the ignition end of the spark plug stably_." whatever that might mean :roll: , it ain't going to be much use in a diesel engine which doesn't have a "_spark plug stably_"!! 8O

"_Atomized granules of hydrogen_"???? Where did they come from, or more to the point - what the heck are they??

This is probably the least believable scam I have ever seen. It wouldn't even fool Mrs Zeb!!!! :lol: :lol:  

Dave


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## williamb

i agree you may as well strap a kipper under the bonnet.


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## waz

williamb said:


> i agree you may as well strap a kipper under the bonnet.


Kipper works for me every time. Just need renewed at 6 week intervals
Waz


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## trevorf

Nah, smoked Herring is much better :wink:


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## GlynR

I'm glad I didn't buy one then, because I can't get any sensible replies.
Thought it was a bit of a red herring !!!!


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## tinkering

"_Atomized granules of hydrogen_

I think this means you have water in your fuel!!?


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## Zebedee

tinkering said:


> "_Atomized granules of hydrogen_
> 
> I think this means you have water in your fuel!!?


Nah . . . . if it's granules it must be ice! 8O 8O

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## b16duv

I see Mr Snake Oil is back peddling his wares to the gullible!

GlynR

There is no scientific basis for the claims made by this unit. Any improvement in mpg following purchase is due to the 'Hawthorn Effect' (which actually HAS a scientific basis).

You have had a lucky escape with this one!

HTH

David


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## Zebedee

Spot on David.

The Hawthorne Effect (_Note smart-arsed spelling correction_ 8O  ) occurs quite unconsciously, so the subject is unaware that their behaviour is in any way different.

It therefore becomes very difficult to convince them that the Snake Oil is actually having no effect at all, but it is their sub-conscious behaviour change that is responsible for any "results". :?

In this case (for example) you spend a bundle on a patent, guaranteed remedy for increasing mpg - so you naturally want it to work. :roll:

You are therefore conscious of your desire to increase mpg for the next few trips, but quite *un*conscious of the fact that your driving technique has altered, and you are now accelerating more gently, cruising slightly slower, coasting to slow down rather than braking hard etc..

Whoopee - it's working!! :lol: :lol: Only it isn't!! 

As you say, this has been demonstrated and proven many times, but it's still ever so easy to convince yourself that the Snake Oil works - if you *want *to believe it!!

Dave


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## trevorf

> I'm glad I didn't buy one then, because I can't get any sensible replies.
> Thought it was a bit of a red herring !!!!


Hi, Sorry for all the silly replies but this subject has been covered many times before on this forum. 
The general view is that all these fuel saving devices are a bit of a con. Just do a search on the topic for more info.

As I see you are quite a new member, I will apologise for the silly remarks on behalf of all us old cynics :wink: :wink:

Trevor


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## Zebedee

Nice of you Trevor  , but I think the silly replies gave a very clear message, so I don't suppose the OP is upset - even though he may be new to the forum. :wink:

Silly or not, the replies saved him a lot of the folding stuff (_and saved him feeling a plonker_) so once again MHF has served its members well!   

Dave


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## trevorf

Totally agree with you Dave but it is difficult to judge if a poster is upset or not when you cannot see their face, so I thought I would explain anyway  


Trevor


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## TDG

GlynR said:


> Hi, just got back from Lincoln motorhome show what a fanstastic weekend, whilst there I came across a gadget for reducing fuel consumption on all types of vehicles, it was called the Sunpulse unit, is there anyone who has tried it and does it work ?


*Sunpulse* - Nonplussed - probably by snake oil :roll:


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## GlynR

no not upset thought some of the replies were quite amusing and as a new poster thanks for the replies, I sort of got the feeling that it doesn't work. Is there anything out there that works ?


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## Zebedee

GlynR said:


> Is there anything out there that works ?


Yep.

*Low speed = high mpg.*

It's as simple as that, and there's really nothing to add except the obvious suggestion to accelerate gently and not race up to every junction and slam the anchors on (like the white van men seem to do :roll: ).

Drive in the highest gear the engine seems comfortable with. You will be surprised how flexible modern diesels are. If you are gentle on the throttle they will tootle along quite happily at 1,000rpm in top gear - on the flat of course.

Imagine holding up a big slab of hardboard the same size as the frontal area of your van . . . with a puny 5mph wind blowing against it. You simply could not do it. You would be blown over in a second. 8O

Now think of the force needed to do that against a 60mph wind, and that's what your engine has to do if you are doing 60mph. 8O 8O

Dave


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## trevorf

I believe premium diesel fuel, like BP Ultimate, can give slightly better fuel economy but they cost more so sort of defeats the object :roll: 

I agree with Zebs comments or you could buy a smaller, lighter van of course :lol: :lol: :lol: 



Trevor


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## bikemad99

All the usual "smart alec" replies,but no one has answered the question .
Has anyone tried it,and does it work?

Reg.


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## Zebedee

bikemad99 said:


> All the usual "smart alec" replies,but no one has answered the question .
> Has anyone tried it,and does it work?
> 
> Reg.


Hi Reg

Assuming your van has a diesel engine, judge for yourself whether it's likely to work from this quote taken from the Sunpulse website . . . which I posted earlier in the thread. :wink:

It can " . . . stabilize the impulse in a stable value, which is strong and concentrate and is also supplied to the ignition end of the spark plug stably."

_(This of course pre-supposes that you have the least idea what they are on about!)_

Assuming you have read their website, do you honestly think there's a cat in hell's chance that it *isn't* a scam!! 8O :roll:

Dave


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## loughrigg

If you google Sunpulse you'll find an adjudication against them by the Advertising Standards Authority dating from February 2008.

The advert ran:

"SAVE MONEY ON FUEL. UP TO 25% MORE MILES PER GALLON. REDUCE YOUR CO EMISSIONS. YOUR CAR WILL RUN CLEANER, LESS HARMFUL GASSES. ENGINE PERFORMANCE ENHANCER. UP'S [sic] YOUR HP AND TORQUE, MAKES YOUR CAR DRIVE BETTER, AND MORE RESPONSIVE. EASY-FIT ON BATTERY, 2 MINUTES".

The reverse side of the leaflet stated

"DON'T WASTE MONEY ON FUEL. FUEL ECONOMISER & PERFORMANCE ENHANCER. Sunpulse is a new electronic Pulse product developed in Japan. All the engines of today are electronic [sic] controlled. Sunpulse enhances the running of your engine electronically. Sunpulse is a [sic]electronic chipping product that will improve the ignition and combustion conditions. It will increase the explosive force in your cylinders. Sunpulse will save you fuel, make your car run smoother, increase your HP and Torque, reduce your CO Emission, and maintain your battery. Will work on all engines petrol, diesel, and twin fuel. As long as it has a ECU. (Injected) ... CE APPROVED ... E13 MARK".

The ASA found the ad couldn't be substantiated and was untruthful.

Anyone say something about leopards and spots?

Mike


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## trevorf

Go on Sunpulses own web site and read the testimonials. 

One guy reckons that his Sunpulse has reduced his engine revs for any given speed :roll: 
Total rubbish, engine revs depends on gearing. Any engine tuning device cannot affect the gear ratio's. 
If his engine revs have decreased then he is driving slower and that is the reason he gets better MPG :wink: 



Trevor


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## tony50

*better mpg forum*

Hi, Any add ons, that work ,I would like to think motor manufactures already fit them,or, would buy these so called innovations .Would they then be selling them at motorhome shows ?

PS. The fuel in a engine cylinder should rapid burn on the power stroke , if it explodes,the fuel burns too quick,noticeable in the form of a petrol engine,it's called pinking.


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## b16duv

Is it still groundhog day?

Dave, here's the 'e' I owe you!

GlynR, I have had my van engine 'remapped' and this has an effect on fuel consumption - I can now travel at a higher speed (65 instead of 55 average) and still get 22 mpg. 

If I slowed down to 55mph, I would expect fuel consumption to improve, but that's not the reason for the remap. 

The reason I want to travel faster is because its 1000 mile round trip from here to Dover and back.

HTH

David

ps I was once advised that the best way to save money on fuel was to take the bus!


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## RichardnGill

I always find the best way to save fuel is to pick a route that is all down hill  

Or if you get really stuck only travel with a tailwind  



Guaranteed to work...Honest



Richard...


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## CliveMott

If I could I would take those selling Sunpulse to court!

C.


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## LeoK

What is the correct proportion of snake oil per litre of diesel fuel ?

Is it the same for petrol engines ?


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## TDG

CliveMott said:


> If I could I would take those selling Sunpulse to court!
> 
> C.


Hold it Clive - we may be missing a trick here 8) 
If we adopt *all* these snake oil ideas to improve efficiency, we could end up making fuel as we drive along :roll:


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## Zebedee

If my experience is typical ( :?: 8O ) what we really need is an engine that will run on hot air. :wink:

Then just say something that upsets Mrs Zeb . . . and we are fuelled up all the way to Italy!! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:

_Help!! Where's me crash hat and body armour . . . . . . . _


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## SpeedyDux

Mythbusters (a light hearted programme on Sky channel 520) carried out a controlled experiment to test the myth that you could improve mpg by slipstreaming a HGV. 8) 

Yes, it really does work, very well in fact, and the closer you are to the back of the HGV the bigger the fuel saving, over 20% if I remember it correctly.  

The downside is that you need to be following too close for safety.  

Never mind. 


SD


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## Zebedee

SpeedyDux said:


> Mythbusters (a light hearted programme on Sky channel 520) carried out a controlled experiment to test the myth that you could improve mpg by slipstreaming a HGV. 8)
> 
> Yes, it really does work, very well in fact, and the closer you are to the back of the HGV the bigger the fuel saving, over 20% if I remember it correctly.
> 
> The downside is that you need to be following too close for safety.
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> SD


Can you fit an A-Frame to a motorhome Speedy?? :? :wink:

The quick release knob in the cab might be a tricky engineering problem, but think of the fuel saving - and the excitement of discovering where you have been towed to when you pull the knob!! 8O :lol: :lol:

You're on a winner there! :wink:

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:

_
(Edited so it makes sense!   )_


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## loughrigg

SpeedyDux said:


> Mythbusters (a light hearted programme on Sky channel 520) carried out a controlled experiment to test the myth that you could improve mpg by slipstreaming a HGV. 8)
> 
> Yes, it really does work, very well in fact, and the closer you are to the back of the HGV the bigger the fuel saving, over 20% if I remember it correctly.
> 
> The downside is that you need to be following too close for safety.
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> SD


So if you follow an HGV really, really closely, you'll never have to worry about fuel consumption ever again. All he has to do is jam his brakes on..........

Slightly more seriously, I remember seeing this idea reported on the BBC news channel as the newest fad in the good old US of A a year or so ago. A few days later, on a trip along the M6, I saw an unusual number of instances of cars driving within a few yards of an HGV (there are always one or two). Coincidence, perhaps.... but absolutely bonkers.

Mike


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## TDG

*Re: better mpg forum*



tony50 said:


> ........PS. The fuel in a engine cylinder should rapid burn on the power stroke , if it explodes,the fuel burns too quick,noticeable in the form of a petrol engine,it's called pinking.


Ah, but don't forget the difference between the Otto and Diesel cycle 8) - and then there is Jane's cycle which I have heard is something else :wink:


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## b16duv

LeoK said:


> What is the correct proportion of snake oil per litre of diesel fuel ?
> 
> Is it the same for petrol engines ?


Hi LeoK

the proportion of snake oil used is different for petrol and diesel because of the different calorific values of the two fuels. It will also vary depending on brand and grade of fuel.

Is it still Groundhog Day?

David


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## Stanner

Zebedee said:


> *Low speed = high mpg.*
> 
> It's as simple as that,


Sorry but it's not "as simple as that" - if it were crawling along in a traffic jam would give the highest MPG and it doesn't.

The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.


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## Mrplodd

I simply LOVE these "Better MPG gadget" salesmen !!

I always ask them the same simple question.....

_If this device is SO good please explain to me why NONE of the motor manufacturers have bought up the company and fitted one to every single vehicle they sell?? _

_Vehicle makers KNOW that better MPG sells cars vans etc and they will spend a LOT of money to gain a very small increase . yet they DON'T buy your product. Please explain_

I have yet to have any sensible answer out of any of them !! Walk away they are a con !!


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## RichardnGill

The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.


> Spot on for us as well.
> 
> Richard...


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## Zebedee

Stanner said:


> Sorry but it's not "as simple as that" - if it were crawling along in a traffic jam would give the highest MPG and it doesn't.


Perhaps I should have added, "_within sensible reason_", but I didn't think it was necessary! 



Stanner said:


> The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.


My Peugeot is just the opposite, but I don't want to argue about it. 

Fiats appear to be similar. >> click here <<

Dave


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## Stanner

Zebedee said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but it's not "as simple as that" - if it were crawling along in a traffic jam would give the highest MPG and it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I should have added, "_within sensible reason_", but I didn't think it was necessary!
> 
> 
> 
> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My Peugeot is just the opposite, but I don't want to argue about it.
> 
> Fiats appear to be similar. >> click here <<
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Yes, it all depends on torque and gearing and sorry but you stated it as a *fact* without any qualification.

And as for Fiats being similar Peugeots that may well be because they are in fact exactly the same.


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## Zebedee

Stanner said:


> And as for Fiats being similar Peugeots that may well be because they are in fact exactly the same.


Sorry, but the engines are quite different. They don't even look the same.

Your turn to state as a fact something which is totally incorrect. 8O

Ho hum - what fun this is!! :roll:

Dave


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## Stanner

Zebedee said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as for Fiats being similar Peugeots that may well be because they are in fact exactly the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the engines are quite different. They don't even look the same.
> 
> Your turn to state as a fact something which is totally incorrect. 8O
> 
> Ho hum - what fun this is!! :roll:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Pardon?

All 2.0 and 2.2's are PSA HDi engines and all 2.3, 2.8 and 3.0 are Iveco engines irrespective of the badge on the front.

All Boxers, Jumpers (or whatever they are called) and Ducatos are built in the same factory.

Full explanation here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevel_Sud

and here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato



> The Fiat Ducato is the same van as the Citroën Jumper and the Peugeot Boxer, which are all very popular vans to convert into motorhomes. All these models are produced at the same Fiat factories in Italy and Brazil


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## Zozzer

SpeedyDux said:


> Mythbusters (a light hearted programme on Sky channel 520) carried out a controlled experiment to test the myth that you could improve mpg by slipstreaming a HGV. 8)
> 
> Yes, it really does work, very well in fact, and the closer you are to the back of the HGV the bigger the fuel saving, over 20% if I remember it correctly.
> 
> The downside is that you need to be following too close for safety.
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> SD


You do realise by posting this advice, even though you pointed out the safety issue, there will probably be some idiot that will try it just to save a thimble full of fuel.

Hopefully there will be no multiple pile-ups and loss of life as a result of your post.


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## Boff

Hi!



Stanner said:


> Yes, it all depends on torque and gearing ...


It also depends - to a significant degree - on air drag. And air drag increases with the second power of the speed.

It is true that an engine reaches its optimum efficiency at peak torque. However, if you increase your speed from 40 to 65 mph, then air drag increases by a factor of about 2.6.

So I do not really believe that your van runs more economically at constant 65 than at constant(!) 40 mph.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Zebedee

Stanner said:


> And as for Fiats being similar Peugeots that may well be because they are in fact exactly the same.





Stanner said:


> All 2.0 and 2.2's are PSA HDi engines and all 2.3, 2.8 and 3.0 are Iveco engines irrespective of the badge on the front.


Peugeot use the 2.2 engine. Fiat use the 2.3.

Exactly the same? _(If you say so I guess - anything for a quiet life!!)_

I'm off to watch some paint drying!! :roll:

Dave


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## TDG

Stanner said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Low speed = high mpg.*
> 
> It's as simple as that,
> 
> 
> 
> ..........The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.
Click to expand...

True (ish) :wink: 
The peak torque has to fall at a sensible speed in the highest ratio 8) 
Not much use if it's at 35 or 85 mph :wink: :wink:


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## Zebedee

TDG said:


> True (ish) :wink:
> The peak torque has to fall at a sensible speed in the highest ratio 8)
> Not much use if it's at 35 or 85 mph :wink: :wink:


Yes - and thanks for that. 

As I said earlier "_within sensible limits_"! :wink:

At "sensible" speeds air drag is the biggest single factor as Boff has already pointed out - and he provided mathematical backup which is difficult to refute! 

Dave


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## Stanner

Zebedee said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as for Fiats being similar Peugeots that may well be because they are in fact exactly the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> All 2.0 and 2.2's are PSA HDi engines and all 2.3, 2.8 and 3.0 are Iveco engines irrespective of the badge on the front.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peugeot use the 2.2 engine. Fiat use the 2.3.
> 
> Exactly the same? _(If you say so I guess - anything for a quiet life!!)_
> 
> I'm off to watch some paint drying!! :roll:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

My Fiat had a Peugeot Engine - all 2.0 and 2.2s do and should you have a 2.3 2.8 or 3.0 Peugeot it will have an Iveco engine.

So yes exactly the same - Just read what Wikipedia says......................... :roll:


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## Stanner

TDG said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Low speed = high mpg.*
> 
> It's as simple as that,
> 
> 
> 
> ..........The secret is to cruise at the revs in top gear that equate to peak torque from the engine - my Renault is more economical cruising at 65mph in 6th (just over 2000rpm) than it is pootling around at 40mph.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True (ish) :wink:
> The peak torque has to fall at a sensible speed in the highest ratio 8)
> Not much use if it's at 35 or 85 mph :wink: :wink:
Click to expand...

Which it usually does with most diesels.............it's one of the reasons they don't fit motorhomes with Fireblade engines even though they put out more bhp than most motorhomes. :wink: :wink:


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## GlynR

Jesus did I open a can of worms.


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## CliveMott

Yes Glyn,
You sure did.
I just wish I were rich enough to bring a private prosecution of that company selling the sunpulse as in my opinion they are simply conning the public.

Perhaps MHF should start a fighting fund to rid our domain of "Rouge Traders" ?.

C.


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## time-traveller

GlynR said:


> Jesus did I open a can of worms.


As a matter of interest, Glyn, what engine _do _you have in your Gulfstream?


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## TDG

GlynR said:


> Jesus did I open a can of worms.


Yes, and a can of worms would probably be as much use a most of the snake oil offerings :x


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## time-traveller

TDG said:


> GlynR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus did I open a can of worms.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and a can of worms would probably be as much use a most of the snake oil offerings :x
Click to expand...

You could go fishing with a can of worms - much more sensible ! :lol:


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## Stanner

Boff said:


> Hi!
> 
> So I do not really believe that your van runs more economically at constant 65 than at constant(!) 40 mph.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Gerhard


Well isn't that just tough, because it does, in fact did.

The Quickshift box will not allow 40mph in 6th in either auto or manual mode and the trip computer does show 65mph in 6th to be more economical than 40mph in 4th/5th.

All I can say is that a gentle meander around the empty roads of the Western Isles last month brought my o/a consumption down well below 30mpg. Whereas the drive home down the A.1 at the aforementioned 65mph allowed it to climb back up to 33mpg.

However I am not prepared to try travelling along a main road like the A.1 (and certainly not any motorway) at a steady 40mph just in case you may be right.


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## LeoK

GlynR said:


> Hi, just got back from Lincoln motorhome show what a fanstastic weekend, whilst there I came across a gadget for reducing fuel consumption on all types of vehicles, it was called the Sunpulse unit, is there anyone who has tried it and does it work ?


Hi Glyn,

It seems that the answer to your question would be that no responding member has tried the Sunpulse gadget, so there has been no one that can give an experience based judgement about its effectivity.


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## 119526

Actually... the 2.2 diesel engine in my new peugeot Autoquest is made by Ford!
PSA and Ford collaborate and use each others products.


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## GlynR

Hi timetraveller, 6 litre V8 diesel giving me 15 to the gallon.


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