# Going to buy a van tomorrow....advice please.



## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

Tomorrow I am catching five trains :roll: to buy a MH (and then drive six hours home). I have seen photos of it and spoken at length with the current owner. If it is all as described, then I will buy it (at an already agreed price).

It is 6 berth Talbot Autotrail. 1993, 2.5D. 34,000 miles.

I have just sold a caravan so understand about gas/electrics/12v/damp and I've bought a number of cars over the years so I am clued up on most things with an engine but I was wondering if there is anything particular I should be looking for on this MH?

It is in very good condition, with no damp.

Thanks!


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## adonisito (Nov 6, 2009)

From my experience, if you intend to go abroad, make sure the exhaust and other parts that are different abroad are in good nick. We found out too late when the exhaust failed in Spain and the part was impossible to source (it exits the vehicle on the other side). We also have a 2.5D (non turbo), it'll be slow up hill, but what's the rush!

Get the van and have fun, teething troubles are part of the experience, but they are rarely serious !


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

Tyres - very expensive to replace. Long MOT is useful, service records including gas equipment.


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Whatever the price and condition, just don't forget that you are buying a vehicle that is nearly 20 years old.


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Maybe a bit late in the day to organise it now, but dependant on where it is in the country - if it's near where an experienced MHF member is located you would probably find they would be very willing to go along and help you check the van over.


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## jocie (Dec 24, 2006)

Although you say it has no damp, I would check for any signs of recent internal painting or papering which could disguise a damp problem. Many years ago I traded in an Eldiss motorhome on a mercedes 208d chassis to Madisons (no longer in existence). I explained to them that there was damp penetrating through the roof into the walls of the bathroom, and I was therefore not willing to sell it privately as a considerable amount of work would be required to strip and dry out the roof, before redecorating inside. I did the trade in exchange with them on a Thursday, and they had the van in their forecourt for sale on the Saturday with the bathroom repapered, and sold it on the Monday. Caveat emptor,even from a "reputable" dealer. After that experience my feeling is that you can trust nobody, but at least you have a better chance of successfully pursuing a dealer for damages. Anyway, best of luck and bon voyage.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Will you be driving home with the vehicle??? 

I would deffo do one of those HPI check things to make sure its not stolen or financed (prob unlikely its financed but you never know!!!) 

Make sure you see the V5 and that the address tallies with where the vehicle is kept. 

Take a damp meter thingy with you and check yourself for damp and much good luck!!!!


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## jocie (Dec 24, 2006)

I had thought of recommending to Richardm to use a damp meter, however to ensure it works you have to push the probe well into the wall material I believe, for example perhaps leaving pinprick holes in e.g. a papered or painted surface. Perhaps it would be feasible for surfaces covered with fabric, or where the owner does not see you making a hole in other surfaces!!!??? I am willing to be corrected on this !!


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Check any MOT`s and service history to verify mileage.

Check the oil level on dipstick Is it fresh or thick and black?

Check for cracking in tyres Over 5 years old ditch them.

Get cambelt changed.

Dave p


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Be prepared to walk away if something's not right, or not as was described. Don't accept "oh, I'll send that bit to you". 

Gerald


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

Do ask to see everything working, heating,boiler,fridge on gas and mains leccy, feel the engine to see if it has been warmed up I would tell the owner not to start it prior to your arrival just in case its a bad starter. Give it a good run to make sure the engine and gearbox are ok, as has already been said check chassis number against logbook and check reg number on tax disc, if your not happy walk away.........
Chris


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

geraldandannie said:


> Be prepared to walk away if something's not right, or not as was described. Don't accept "oh, I'll send that bit to you".
> 
> Gerald


I agree with Gerald don't be afraid to walk away no matter how far you have travelled,any dou'ts you have book into a local B&B for the night and have a think about it.

You have had some very good tips and advice from the above, good luck and I hope it goes well.

Paul


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*buying*

Take the radiator cap off when under the bonnet, if the water has brown gunge in it walk away, thats a head gasket issue, if not put a finger and thumb in it (MAKE SURE ENGINE IS COLD) rub together, if slippy, i would walk, but I am a hard buyer who buys to earn.

Anyone going via all those trains is going to be either one:carrying cash or two: carrying a bank draft. If one, be aware of where you are going, do not go alone. It probable that you are going so far and relying on driving home in the vehicle to get home, the seller will know this. Asking for money off will be an empty ask. It has to be taxted for you to get it home and how will you arrange insurance to drive it??

HPI is good advice. The name you are looking for is Equifax, thats the company that owns HPI.

If you do buy it, check your lights.

Good luck

Phil K

PM me if you want any help.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks for the replies (and the PMs). I will take everything said on board.

I have HPIed it: all clear.

The seller has owned it for nearly one year. He is moving abroad so genuine reason for sale.

He bought it from a dealer and the owner before that had it for many years but didn't use it for the last ten years when it was stored in a climate controlled storage place. It is supposed to be a real time warp. I hope so.

New tyres last year. The only unknown is the timing belt and that will be changed asap. Full MOT.

Without talking about how I know on the internet, I know a lot about the seller so I am not (too) worried about being bashed over the head on arrival!

The MH looks very nice in the photos: I hope it is as nice in real life!


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Richard_M said:


> Thanks for the replies (and the PMs). I will take everything said on board.
> 
> I have HPIed it: all clear.
> 
> ...


Good luck Richard, hope everything goes well!!!


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Hope all goes well - let us know how you get on!
We love new van stories


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Check the payload figure-Drive to a weighbridge.

Paul.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

It has a GVW of 3100Kg

What sort of weight would be a 'good' weight empty?

Am I right in assuming that this MH has the lower speed limits? 50 on a SC and 60 on a DC?

Thanks.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Richard_M said:


> It has a GVW of 3100Kg
> 
> What sort of weight would be a 'good' weight empty?
> 
> ...


Hi Richard,

I think that the cut off weight for the speed limits is 2,000g, and the speed limits can be reviewed at www.direct.gov, along with much more useful info.

You'll have to look at the plating to know how to calculate what your empty weight should be.

Good luck with the purchase.

Cheers,

Jock.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Just one last thing - has it got enough already fitted seat belts for your use?
It sounds good and you've done all the sensible checks so far so good luck and let us all know. As someone else said - we love new van stories.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

Damp meter is a must. Check all 8 corners top and bottom and around windows inside, then underneath and the floor particularly at the edges and under the bathroom as there may have been a leak. Any sign of damp reconsider as this could be the most expensive thing to put right.

Good luck,

Graham


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

JockandRita said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> I think that the cut off weight for the speed limits is 2,000g, and the speed limits can be reviewed at www.direct.gov, along with much more useful info.


Thanks.

I know what the limits are for cars and car derived vans under (and over) 2000KG but I thought MHs had a higher weight limit before they were under lower speed limits?


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Richard_M said:


> JockandRita said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Richard,
> ...


Does 3050Kgs ring any bells?

Cheers,

Jock.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

Gutted.

It has damp. Rear corner, driver's side, behind the cushions. Touch the wall and your hand comes away wet accross an area of about 3 or 4 feet. Looking under the seat, the carpet is stained and the wooden supports holding the seating up are also very stained.

Underneath, the floor in that corner is soft and repaired with tank tape.

I now have (another) six hour train journey ahead of me, and I am £140 lighter because of the train fares.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

That's life Richard. 8O Keep looking, one will turn up.

tony


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

So sorry Richard. What a mean thing to do to you. Just keep looking though and I bet something much better turns up for you.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Richard_M said:


> Gutted.
> 
> It has damp. Rear corner, driver's side, behind the cushions. Touch the wall and your hand comes away wet accross an area of about 3 or 4 feet. Looking under the seat, the carpet is stained and the wooden supports holding the seating up are also very stained.
> 
> ...


Bad luck Richard, but you are in good company.

We travelled all the way from Peterborough to Stirling, to view a well loved and cared for Swift Kontiki, (one of four we viewed). After a night in a lovely B&B, we went to view this "prized Kontiki", only to find that the bottom half of the habitation door frame was completely rotten, and had been covered in silicone sealant, to try and hide the damage. 
Also both front corners where the coach meets the cab, were also suffering from damp. I reckon it had been subjected to flooding, as the door frame was low in the body.

After leaky Kontiki No4, we started looking at German built MHs. :roll:

The upside for you, is that you have just saved yourself a wee fortune and some heartache. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## bobbylynne (Nov 11, 2010)

i think the same van is back on ebay again with no details of any damp problems. up for 9,500


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

JockandRita - Leaky KonTiki - I'm looking for a name for my new (to me) KonTiki - hope I haven't found it!!


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## A37 (Sep 22, 2009)

Richard - please name and shame !

It was utterly rude to waste your time like that - especially as you made a thorough enquiry before travelling to view.

Not much consolation but it took us 18months and many disappointing trips to find our first van.

Stick with it and well done for walking away...


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## ramblingon (Jul 15, 2009)

Do the AA/RAC do a vehicle check? it might be cheaper than the train journey. Don't feel too bad about it, report it to ebay, and put it down to experience. My 1st mistake cost me over 2 n'1/2 grand but I have a clear conscience as I fixed the problem and sold it on at a huge loss. All the very best.


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## jncrowe (Feb 14, 2009)

hi richard 
thanks for letting us know your sad news 
we bought our first m/h locally and had no problems but bought second one from a dealer in halifax and had to take it back with a page full of problems 
some were fixed but not all and we couldn't be bothered with the hassle of trailing back again and again
it was probably cheaper to pay than to go back 
better luck next time 
atvb 
cath


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Lucky escape. 

There are others to view out there.
Now you are armed with information and will have a better idea of what to look for in future.
Good hunting

Dave p


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## grenwelly (Aug 7, 2007)

Richard

As others have said keep looking there are plenty out there.
It took us about a year of hunting once we decided we definitely wanted to purchase a van after hiring a couple.
We did have some things on the must have list that limited the number that ticked the boxes (big bed and lots of head room)
We looked at four and trailed down past Birmingham for the one we bought. (we had considered looking at one in Southampton but it sold before we could arrange to see it)

You would have ended up spending a lot of time and a lot more than the train fair trying to repair it


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

IanA said:


> JockandRita - Leaky KonTiki - I'm looking for a name for my new (to me) KonTiki - hope I haven't found it!!


I should think so IandA, as these were older models we were looking at, and it was six years ago. 
However, saying that, don't forget to test for damp annually. Buying a damp meter can save you £0,000s.

Cheers for now,

Jock.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

maybe too late for you now.....

but when I bought my van, I bought it subject to an AA check - I paid the AA to come and look over the whole of the engine and write me a report - then I knew I wasn't buying a dud


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

It could have been worse Richard. Better £140 than thousands.
Put it down to experience and move on better equipped for next time.

Regards,

Graham


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

JockandRita said:


> I should think so IandA, as these were older models we were looking at, and it was six years ago.
> However, saying that, don't forget to test for damp annually. Buying a damp meter can save you £0,000s.
> 
> Cheers for now,
> ...


Sorry IandA, I can't go back and edit that.

It should have read.........I *"shouldn't"* think so. 

Regards,

Jock.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Richard console yourself with the thought that you did well spotting it and have saved a lot of aggro as a result. There will be another better one, keep looking. Good luck, Alan.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks again for the replies.

The MH is this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230578287738&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

We agreed a price of £8,500 for a "very good condition" with "no damp" MH.

In reality, it was very average with a rotten rear corner. Walls were wet and black across the rear off side corner, approx 18" by 36" wide (that was the area I could see/feel: no doubt the damp went further). The seat supports had staining on them too, and the carpets we blackened under the seats. Looking underneath the MH, the floor was rotten in at least a foot square area and held up with tank tape.

I had asked the seller on the phone the direct question: "Is there any damp" to which he said NO.

You may call him a liar, I couldn't possibly comment.

I had paid him £100 deposit via PayPal on the strength of what he told me. After we agreed not to proceed (I was too damn nice about it to be honest), he at first said that he would not refund the money "because that was what deposits were for". After a bit of discussion, he then said he would refund the deposit less whatever it costs him to relist it on eBay (he said approx £30, so that would be £70 coming back to me).

I see that he has relisted it, but he hasn't refunded the money to me. I sent him a message, and he has ignored it.

You may call him a thief, I couldn't possibly comment.

I have today opened a PayPal dispute. However, as this was bought outside of eBay I do not know what will happen.

I notice that in his relisting, he has not mentioned the damp:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230580476632

In fact, all the words are the same, except he has added in "non refundable" about the £200 deposit he wants at the end of the auction.

So, someone is going to BIN or bid and win this item based on the description, pay £200, arrive to collect and see the damp walls and rotten floor. The buyer (if they have any sense) will walk away and the seller will keep his £200. Then he can relist it. Ka ching!

You may call him a fraudster, I couldn't possibly comment.

One last thing. Anyone here work for the MOD? The seller does. Would the MOD be interested in all of this? (The MH is kept on MOD property).


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Does having paid a deposit allow you to leave feedback about the seller or the goods? Alan.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Would ebay be interested in your experience?


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

It was all done outside of eBay.


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## ramblingon (Jul 15, 2009)

Just under the main ad there is a line on the right hand side of this line is a "Report this seller" use this button to tell your story ebay will act.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I have just sent the seller a question.


Dear amyl9982,

Could you please tell me of any damp areas on the vehicle.
Thank you

I will post the reply.


Dave p


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I have just sent the seller a question.
> 
> Dear amyl9982,
> 
> ...


Thanks.

Please can I ask that no one else contacts the seller at this time. More than one question about damp and he might realise we are on to him.

Once I get my £100 back then everyone can do what they want!


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Richard_M said:


> Please can I ask that no one else contacts the seller at this time. More than one question about damp and he might realise we are on to him. Once I get my £100 back then everyone can do what they want!


Oh shame! It would be fun to have lots of people ask him if he has damp! He has to post the replies for everyone to see! Are you sure? It might save some other person from being ripped off too.

If he just keeps getting £100 deposits, then he'll make money without ever selling the van.

Do you have a receipt for your £100 deposit? I would just write him a letter, explain that he misrepresented the van condition to you, and therefore you are due the £100 back. Say that if he pays you within 14 days you will not pursue compensation for your out of pocket train expenses and time for coming to see a van which was not as described. Otherwise, you will have to take him to the small claims court for all the money including court costs. He'll probably pay up quickly then.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

ramblingon said:


> Just under the main ad there is a line on the right hand side of this line is a "Report this seller" use this button to tell your story ebay will act.


I cannot see anywhere to report this item for sale is not as described.



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I have just sent the seller a question.
> 
> Dear amyl9982,
> 
> ...


Any reply?



HeatherChloe said:


> Do you have a receipt for your £100 deposit? I would just write him a letter, explain that he misrepresented the van condition to you, and therefore you are due the £100 back. Say that if he pays you within 14 days you will not pursue compensation for your out of pocket train expenses and time for coming to see a van which was not as described. Otherwise, you will have to take him to the small claims court for all the money including court costs. He'll probably pay up quickly then.


Paid by PayPal.

Good idea, however he is leaving the country in a month as he is being posted to Cyprus so I'm not sure what would happen to Court action if he were out of the country.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

HeatherChloe said:


> He has to post the replies for everyone to see!


Not so. It's optional.

The auction appears to have been ended early.

Regarding telling the MoD, with respect, that's a terrible suggestion. There are no grounds for involving them, and I know how everyone would feel if an aggrieved buyer phoned your employer if you were the seller ("Wot's it got to do with them" etc.). It hasn't.

Regarding PayPal, you're still entitled to dispute any purchase, eBay or otherwise. Your protection is extended to include any purchase of physical goods, if you can show it was not as advertised/fit for purpose etc.

BTW, geat decision to walk away - a tough choice, but the right one.

Dougie.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

asprn said:


> The auction appears to have been ended early


So, he has probably done/doing to someone else what he has done to me.



asprn said:


> Regarding telling the MoD, with respect, that's a terrible suggestion. There are no grounds for involving them, and I know how everyone would feel if an aggrieved buyer phoned your employer if you were the seller ("Wot's it got to do with them" etc.). It hasn't.


Yes and no.

I wouldn't normally consider involving the employer, however this is someone who should be a fine and upstanding person. Police, ambulance, fire, forces.: all these people should be people you can trust.

Yes, it might well get him into deep trouble..............but so what? I am currently £239 out of pocket because of the lies he told me. Does anyone expect me to care what might happen to him?


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Richard_M said:


> I wouldn't normally consider involving the employer, however this is someone who should be a fine and upstanding person. Police, ambulance, fire, forces.: all these people should be people you can trust


I understand that from the other side of the fence, but this was a private sale by an individual. It's Caveat Emptor, and you _were_ aware when you walked away, which was the right thing to do. I'm certainly not defending the seller; what I am saying though is that you have no grounds to involve his employers, as it has absolutely nothing to do with them.



Richard_M said:


> Yes, it might well get him into deep trouble..............but so what? I am currently £239 out of pocket because of the lies he told me. Does anyone expect me to care what might happen to him?


The point I'm trying to make is that you will not get him into any trouble. I think you may be under the misconception that his employers would share your view of this private sale or even undertake some sort of investigation, but whilst they would listen to what you had to say and would no doubt be polite to you, it's got nothing to do with them, and they would tell you that. He would be made aware that you had called, but the Ministry of Defence will not take your cause up, however justified you feel your grievance is. I hope you can understand that no-one here including me is not sympathetic to your having coughed up £140 for a wasted journey. You will however have to swallow it and clock it up to experience (and hopefully a valuable one). You took some risks with the purchase - more than I personally would have done - including paying a blind deposit and also agreeing to buy an high-value eBay item outside of eBay thus depriving yourself of some protection.

I would personally also be quite circumspect about calling someone a liar on a public internet forum, no matter how much I believed it.

Dougie.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

No reply.
Richard take Heatherchloe`s advice, a letter or two will not cost you much more than time.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/small_claims.htm

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/county/index.htm

Dave p


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Dave,

It will be a complete waste of his time - and a further waste of his money - to pursue this through the court. How can he evidence his claim? Unless he's not mentioned it, he has no independent corroboration to his having found damp, he is not qualified to say that dampness was present in the van for the reasons he believes it was, and the seller will no doubt refute his version.

He's also publicly stated here before going to see the van, that he "know(s) a lot about the seller". I know that was in the context of his own personal safety whilst carrying cash, but he has more than inferred that he believes the seller is honest. After the abortive visit when he becomes disillusioned, he admits to his general expectation of the seller being much higher than an "ordinary" (i.e. non-public-sevice) person. It's clear to me that his expectations of the van AND the seller were based more on what he wanted rather than what the seller was saying (we've all done that at some stage), and therefore he came to earth with a bump. :roll:

The seller neither had nor has any obligations to pay any of the buyer's expenses incurred travelling to view the van - that's up to the buyer regardless of the outcome of the visit, and unless he made an arrangement with the seller to cover his expenses, he has no claim.

As I've said before, he's understandably disappointed at the result, but he must have known that was a posible outcome - and perhaps should have factored in the possibility that at worst, the seller was not honest to some degree. I also think that he talked himself into believing he would be covered by the seller being employed by the MoD - either morally or legally or both - which is a mistake.

He's right to go to PayPal to try for his deposit back, and I hope he gets it - he should if there was no condition on the original auction which said "non-refundable". I cannot understand though why he would pay a blind deposit and agree to buy a high-value vehicle after the seller takes it off eBay. That was another mistake, so perhaps - difficult though it will be - he should reflect on much of the reason why he is suffering understandable anger, and swallow hard,

And for clarity, I'm not being a*sey - I'm being objective.

Dougie.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Dougie is quite correct. Such things are very annoying and sometimes cost us a few pounds but that's life. The best that can be hoped for is the return of the deposit and there is way of getting it back. Get the deposit back and count your blessings that you didn't buy the van, Alan.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

I understand what Asprn and Erneboy are saying but if it was me I would be extremely annoyed and would feel conned (as the later advertising of the van as dampfree seems to indicate.).
He has nothing much to lose by writing and saying he has seen it advertised again and is now going to the small claims court unless his deposit is returned within the week. He can then decide if it is worth pursuing any further.
I'd lay it on thick about the new advert making the same erroneous claims and even say I would take that further if I didn't get my money back. He doesn't need to know that you probably have no where to take it/won't do it anyway.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Morning folks,


I think you need to set yourself some new rules for buying, if you intend buying a vehicle 17 years old. 
such as do not pay any money until it has had aclose inspection etc.



norm


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

asprn said:


> Dave,
> 
> It will be a complete waste of his time - and a further waste of his money - to pursue this through the court. How can he evidence his claim? Unless he's not mentioned it, he has no independent corroboration to his having found damp, he is not qualified to say that dampness was present in the van for the reasons he believes it was, and the seller will no doubt refute his version.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to get my train fares back. I have never said that.

I want my deposit back, no more. I paid £100 on the understanding the MH didn't have damp. I was told that it didn't. It did. A lie.

If the MH hadn't had damp then I would have bought it for the agreed price.

If you buy ANYTHING, a car, house anything and the seller lies to sell that item then you have a legal recourse to get your money back.

I was only talking about my own personal safety when I said I knew about the seller. And I was correct. The seller was who he said he was and I wasn't bashed over the head on arrival.



asprn said:


> I also think that he talked himself into believing he would be covered by the seller being employed by the MoD - either morally or legally or both - which is a mistake.


So, if you agreed to buy something from someone in a position of trust/power (like MOD, Police, Ambulance, Fire etc), you wouldn't think, in a small way, that they were maybe just a little bit honest because of their position...?


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## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

How come it's on a 'P' plate being a 93 model?


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

mikeyv said:


> How come it's on a 'P' plate being a 93 model?


Being in the MOD he was posted to Germany where the MOD re-registered it on German-MOD plates where you get a random UK number plate (as I understand it).

Now back in the UK, it is back on it's original K reg.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Steph said:


> I understand what Asprn and Erneboy are saying but if it was me I would be extremely annoyed and would feel conned (as the later advertising of the van as dampfree seems to indicate.).
> He has nothing much to lose by writing and saying he has seen it advertised again and is now going to the small claims court unless his deposit is returned within the week. He can then decide if it is worth pursuing any further.
> I'd lay it on thick about the new advert making the same erroneous claims and even say I would take that further if I didn't get my money back. He doesn't need to know that you probably have no where to take it/won't do it anyway.


Everyone fully understands his annoyance - that's not the point. The question is whether or not he has been conned as you put it, although he clearly feels he has. I'm now repeating myself, but it will be an absolute waste of time - utterly - to even write a letter. What's the point? What will it change? And what exactly would the claim be for? There is no liability by the seller! None. He didn't buy the van! If he had, it would make a difference to his legal rights & entitlements, and he could produce evidence by way of professional opinion by taking the van to someone qualified to give that opinion.

There is such a general misconception about what works, what doesn't, what the law covers or doesn't, and what leverage writing letters to people - including their employers - does or doesn't. He's already properly taking the matter up with PayPal for his deposit, and he should get that back under their terms.

Let's keep this real.

Dougie.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Well spotted mikyev , we might be onto something here, time to get the trench coat and trilby out and make some enquiries.




norm


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Richard_M said:


> I want my deposit back, no more. I paid £100 on the understanding the MH didn't have damp. I was told that it didn't. It did. A lie.


PayPal's your recourse to that, and good luck


Richard_M said:


> If you buy ANYTHING, a car, house anything and the seller lies to sell that item then you have a legal recourse to get your money back


You probably have, but you didn''t buy it.  A point which somehow is being missed by a number of people.



Richard_M said:


> I was only talking about my own personal safety when I said I knew about the seller. And I was correct. The seller was who he said he was and I wasn't over the head on arrival


A point I made.



Richard_M said:


> So, if you agreed to buy something from someone in a position of trust/power (like MOD, Police, Ambulance, Fire etc), you wouldn't think, in a small way, that they were maybe just a little bit honest because of their position...?


No. I would not allow it to cloud my judgement of the item, which is after all the principal thing, and I would make my decision whether to buy or not to buy on the condition of the van, which is ultimately what you did. The mistakes you made in my opinion, were to talk yourself into a false sense of security about the seller by making certain assumptions - reasonable or otherwise - and believe that you had some recourse because of his employment, which you do not have. I'm not saying it's an unreasonable thing for you to have believed - look at my signature to see where I "should" stand on that - but your eye was well off the ball before you went near the van. If the only reason you paid a blind deposit was because the seller worked for the MoD, I hope you reflect on that for the future. That was your expectation, not his failing, and it's only your opinion that he is dishonest. He may well be a numpty - or he may well be dishonest - I don't know. You're entitled to your opinion, and I know it's unlikely anyone will change it. I think though that if you were able to reflect on your own contribution to your bad experience, you will be better equipped to avoid another one.

Dougie.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

The point would be (to me) at least trying to get my money back and the feeling that I a not just laying down and accepting it without a fight.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Steph said:


> The point would be (to me) at least trying to get my money back and the feeling that I a not just laying down and accepting it without a fight.


I quite accept that, and he should pursue the PayPal claim. However, it's always worth choosing your hills on which to die.

Dougie.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Where does he live we will send the boys round


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Richard_M said:


> Paid by PayPal.
> 
> Good idea, however he is leaving the country in a month as he is being posted to Cyprus so I'm not sure what would happen to Court action if he were out of the country.


Richard

Having read through the comments, my advice would be to let this go and chalk it up to experience.

You paid him £100 deposit - presumably to keep the van and not sell it to anyone else until you had seen it. He did do that.

You asked him if it had damp, he said no it didn't have damp. You saw it and saw that it had damp. So the point is that you would not have paid the £100 to him if you had known it had damp.

As he lives a long way away and is about to leave the country, well then you've just lost £100 as far as I can see. If you had seen the damp at the time when you visited, you could have said - this van has damp, you specifically told me that it did not have damp - if I had known I would not have come to see it and would not have paid you £100 - I'd like my £100 back. If you said this while you were at his premises and you were insistent and would not leave, he may well have given you the money back.

Now that you are home, I would just write it off. It's only £100. More annoying is that you travelled all that way and wasted you time.

Don't waste any more time, nor stress, nor energy. Have a nice bath and forget about it.


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## Richard_M (Dec 17, 2010)

Just to update this:

I said:



Richard_M said:


> I had paid him £100 deposit via PayPal on the strength of what he told me. After we agreed not to proceed (I was too damn nice about it to be honest), he at first said that he would not refund the money "because that was what deposits were for". After a bit of discussion, he then said he would refund the deposit less whatever it costs him to relist it on eBay (he said approx £30, so that would be £70 coming back to me).


As I had already agreed to pay his relisting fees, and he had agreed to refund me the rest, then this is what I wanted.

I did contact his superior officer at the MOD. The seller is actual at quite a high rank, which outraged me even more that he would tell such bare faced lies and to go back on various promises he made.

Anyway, his superior office was very interested to hear what I had to say, and it also transpired that the seller had told me other lies regarding to himself, his position and his reason for selling the MH.

Long story short. Within one hour of talking to this officer, I had a call from the seller. It wasn't quiet an apology but I think it hurt him just the same to make that call. He refunded £80 via PayPal that night.

Don't mess with me


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Good on you!!!!! Well done.


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## DC4JC (Sep 19, 2007)

Richard_M said:


> Long story short. Within one hour of talking to this officer, I had a call from the seller. It wasn't quiet an apology but I think it hurt him just the same to make that call. He refunded £80 via PayPal that night.
> 
> Don't mess with me


Good for you. :wink: I'm really pleased that you have most of your money back.  It really annoyed me when I read about your experience.

Hopefully it might teach him a lesson!

Janice.


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