# VOSA MOT



## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

Just had my 2008 Autotrail Cheynne 660 motorhome MOT today, this time they asked for my unladen mass weight? apparently this info is require for the VOSA data base.

Fortunately I eventually found these details are in the Autotrail Handbook which I keep in the motorhome 3250 kg, I originally gave them my most recent the weighbridge figures 3660 kg this resulted in the front brakes failing the VOSA MOT.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I am not an expert but thought the unladen weight requirement is for Class 7 vehicles where it should be a plated.

For Class 4 vehicles, the vast majority of vehicles registered as motor caravans, I thought the braking effort was calculated from the weight of the vehicle as presented for test and derived from the weight sensors in the Brake Testing Machinery. This is why it makes sense to unload the vehicle as much as possible when presenting it for test.

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_380.htm


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Oscarmax said:


> Just had my 2008 Autotrail Cheynne 660 motorhome MOT today, this time they asked for my unladen mass weight? apparently this info is require for the VOSA data base.
> 
> Fortunately I eventually found these details are in the Autotrail Handbook which I keep in the motorhome 3250 kg, I originally gave them my most recent the weighbridge figures 3660 kg this resulted in the front brakes failing the VOSA MOT.


So what have you got to do to get a pass.

Dave p


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Oscarmax said:


> Fortunately I eventually found these details are in the Autotrail Handbook which I keep in the motorhome 3250 kg, I originally gave them my most recent the weighbridge figures 3660 kg this resulted in the front brakes failing the VOSA MOT.


Is the weight in the Autotrail handbook the UK legal definition of a vehicles Unladen Weight or a weight that conforms to the EC regulation for motorhome weights i..e. 75kg for driver, 90% fuel and habitation fresh water tanks etc?

They are not the same thing and there is no requirement for class 4 motor caravans to have a plated unladen weight. I would hazard a guess that few if any motor home owners know the Unladen Weight of their vehicle in accordance with the UK legal definition. How could they as motorhome convertors do not publish it and probably never even measure it.


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

Surely weight can not be a factor in braking otherwise the weight transfer forward when a vehicle brakes are applied would badly effect the calculations. I think from what I remember of Newtons second law of motion comes into play here in that the weight of the vehicle pressing down is proportional to the effort needed to decelerate it.


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

Perhaps the UW is needed for the database for size-sensitive speed cameras?


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

The weight is needed to calculate the brake performance, that's why
class 4 is as presented or manufactures nett weight and class 7 is calculated using GVW

If your brakes didn't pass using the weight ticket you have too much in it or your brakes need looking at

Loddy


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

rayc said:


> I would hazard a guess that few if any motor home owners know the Unladen Weight of their vehicle in accordance with the UK legal definition. How could they as motorhome convertors do not publish it and probably never even measure it.


Our Hymer came with a sheet defining the unladed weight and the weight of all added extras at the factory.

When I got it I weighed it in the unladed state with me in the driving seat. This was actually less than the makers sheet weight.

John


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

johnthompson said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> > I would hazard a guess that few if any motor home owners know the Unladen Weight of their vehicle in accordance with the UK legal definition. How could they as motorhome convertors do not publish it and probably never even measure it.
> ...


John, yes but I stand by my statement ".....Unladen Weight of their vehicle in accordance with the UK legal definition".
I am sure that your Hymer sheet which defined the unladen weight is not the weight that it would have been if it had been weighed in accordance with UK regulations.
Can you briefly say what Hymer's definition of unladen weight included?


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

loddy said:


> The weight is needed to calculate the brake performance, that's why
> class 4 is as presented or manufactures nett weight and class 7 is calculated using GVW
> 
> If your brakes didn't pass using the weight ticket you have too much in it or your brakes need looking at
> ...


Hi

The brakes are spot on the motorhome has only done 8000 miles. The front wheels were actually locked up and climbing out of the rollers, even the tester was suprised by the VOSA results


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Oscarmax said:


> loddy said:
> 
> 
> > The weight is needed to calculate the brake performance, that's why
> ...


You said it failed when they used a higher figure now your saying the wheels locked up, make your mind up

Loddy


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi All

Just had mine MOTed and they asked for gross weight, told them 4005kg and it passed OK

Best Regards
Broom


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

loddy said:


> Oscarmax said:
> 
> 
> > loddy said:
> ...


Do not be so rude and ignorant.

The reading for the front recorded registered 6 and rears about 6.5 on the rollers, this is down to the Cheynne 660 large overhang on the rear axle, the reading on the weighbridge in August last year, front axle 1580, rear axle 2300, however today at the MOT I was virtually unloaded, except a full tank of fuel.

Last year the same MOT garage did not ask for the unladen weight, however, the MOT certificate are now just a printout, I wonder if the procedure/requirement have changed.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Puzzled by all of this. My van (Cheyenne 696, same as Broom's) was MOT'd / passed not more than a month ago and nothing of this type of thing was requested.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

How can we have a intelligent discussion when we are fed wrong information. I was a MOT tester for over 30 years and know how a brake tester works

Loddy


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

loddy said:


> How can we have a intelligent discussion when we are fed wrong information. I was a MOT tester for over 30 years and know how a brake tester works
> 
> Loddy


Loddy, can you please explain the relavance or otherwise of:
a) Unladen Weight
b) Actual Weight
c) MGW

With regards to the brake test?

Many thanks,

Ray


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

All cars have a weight supplied by the manufacturer and a little is added for driver and fuel, all this is in a data base on VOSA's computer system so the tester don't need to ask, when entering brake test results the computer does the work = unladen

If a vehicle is presented that is not on the data base the tester has to ask, then enters the weight in the computer = as presented, so all motor homes should have documentation to prove weight

Goods vehicles are tested as though they are fully laden and the Gross Vehicle weight is taken from the plate GVW or MGVW then entered into the computer.

IMHO all motor homes should be tested as fully laden

Loddy


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Oscarmax said:


> Do not be so rude and ignorant


:lol: He's sometimes the first (especially to American pedestrians  ) but is definitely not the second. Look past the first to what he's saying - he knows what he's talking about.

Dougie.


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Loddy, what you are quoting is very inaccurate, all cars will have type approval along with any chassis used for a Camper van up to 3500kgs and will be recorded in the computerised brake roller system, all commercial based vehicles above 3500kgs will have a manafacures plate or a plating certificate, if issued with a certificate from VOSA it will have a reference number that will be entered into the brake roller, if not information from the vehicle plate will be entered, no commercial vehicle has weight applied to the front axle on test & if I remember correctly 80% is the minimum required for rear axles, unless a tri-axle trailer and this would have to be fully loaded or completely empty.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

locrep said:


> Loddy, what you are quoting is very inaccurate, all cars will have type approval


I have two cars which have no type approval.

Oh yes, and an RV too.

Dougie.


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Sorry I thought this was about modern vehicles and not classic's..


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

locrep said:


> Sorry I thought this was about modern vehicles and not classic's..


If I wasn't such a gentleman, I'd perhaps think you were being rude and ignorant. 

One is; the other two are modern. I was just responding to your quoting "all cars will have type approval", which to use another of your phrases, is very inaccurate. :?

Dougie.


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

Loddy I owe you an apology when I said 'rude and ignorant' on hind sight I should have said let me make what I said a little clearer. Please except my apology.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Oscarmax

No problem I have really thick skin and a hatred of American pedestrians

Locrep

your understanding of the MOT scheme and the way it works is lacking, in the real world perhaps it would work the way you suggest

Loddy


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Asprn, I am sure you are a Gentleman, but I quote directly from the VOSA website, if you look on your vehicle's you will find a plate with a very large E followed by numbers, if not present you will have a VIC.

Quote:-

Within Europe, two systems of type approval have been in existence for over 20 years. One is based around EC Directives and provides for the approval of whole vehicles, vehicle systems, and separate components. The other is based around ECE (United Nations) Regulations and provides for approval of vehicle systems and separate components, but not whole vehicles.

Type approval is the confirmation that production samples of a design will meet specified performance standards. The specification of the product is recorded and only that specification is approved.

Automotive EC Directives and ECE Regulations require third party approval - testing, certification and production conformity assessment by an independent body. Each Member State is required to appoint an Approval Authority to issue the approvals and a Technical Service to carry out the testing to the Directives and Regulations. An approval issued by one Authority will be accepted in all the Member States.

VCA is the designated UK Approval Authority and a Technical Service for all type approvals to automotive EC Directives and ECE Regulations.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

locrep said:


> Loddy, what you are quoting is very inaccurate, all cars will have type approval along with any chassis used for a Camper van up to 3500kgs and will be recorded in the computerised brake roller system, all commercial based vehicles above 3500kgs will have a manafacures plate or a plating certificate, if issued with a certificate from VOSA it will have a reference number that will be entered into the brake roller, if not information from the vehicle plate will be entered, no commercial vehicle has weight applied to the front axle on test & if I remember correctly 80% is the minimum required for rear axles, unless a tri-axle trailer and this would have to be fully loaded or completely empty.


Hi, what is the situation with Motor caravans with a MGW of 4250kg? My Rapido has 3 stage plating, Stage 1 Fiat - no weights, Stage 2 Alko MGW, axle weights and train weight and Stage 3 Rapido same as Alko. 
It is obvious that the chassis manufacturer Fiat does not put enter any weights as when it is supplied to Rapido it is a cab only not even a chassis with rear axle etc. It is also obvious that the Stage 3 plate is the defining one for the complete vehicle. What weight is used at MOT?
Many thanks,
Ray


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi,

I have just looked at the SD card in my journey video recorder it clearly show the motorhome moving about from the nearside to the offside on the back rollers when the brakes were fully applied, that include both the rear and front brakes,in fact the motorhome is clearly struggling to obtain traction getting off the brake rollers unfortunately I do not have the ability/knowledge to upload it on the forum.

The MOT garage mainly deals with heavy commecial MOT, servicing and repairs, it may be down to contamination on the brake rollers ?

Anyway after a conversation on the phone they have used the Fiat 3500 kg

Measurement
Brake Advisories: RBT Service Brake Efficiency : 49%

Advisory Items
002 Service brake Your vehicle has only just met the required service brake efficiency. It would appear that the braking system requires adjustment or repair. (3.7.A.9)

May be it is time to move the motorhome on, I may not be so lucky next year


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I have 3 vehicles and 1 has a plate (reg 09) the 2 others do not
(reg 06 and 03 ). it's not the real world

Loddy

RayC 

you need a weighbridge ticket or how is the tester going to calculate your brake performance ?

Every year I am asked for a ticket when having my RV tested (MGVW 6.25 tonnes )

Loddy


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

loddy said:


> I have 3 vehicles and 1 has a plate (reg 09) the 2 others do not
> (reg 06 and 03 ). it's not the real world
> 
> Loddy
> ...


Loddy,
A weighbridge certificate in what state of loading? As it is being presented?
Ray


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Oscarmax said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have just looked at the SD card in my journey video recorder it clearly show the motorhome moving about from the nearside to the offside on the back rollers when the brakes were fully applied, that include both the rear and front brakes,in fact the motorhome is clearly struggling to obtain traction getting off the brake rollers unfortunately I do not have the ability/knowledge to upload it on the forum.
> 
> ...


I have heard it said that even ex factory the Fiat X250 heavy chassis has difficulty meeting the handbrake test requirements especially on a tag axle.


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

rayc said:


> johnthompson said:
> 
> 
> > rayc said:
> ...


It does not have any definition as such. It is simply the weight ticket of the vehicle as it left the production line with itemised factory added extras. DVLA accepted this as its unladen weight when I imported used from Germany. I later went onto a weigh bridge and got a ticket with the vehicle in running order, with a tank of Fuel and LPG in the tank and me in the driving seat otherwise the vehicle didn't have any other loose contents. It did have all the fixed items in though like TV Sky box etc.

John


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

The V5 of my chassis says 12500kg, fully loaded we are 9500kg, and the 9500kg verbally satisfied the last three MOT testers.

They input 9500 into the machine that measures braking performance prior to its use on each axle.

I'd like to know if a "better" % result would be gained from the machine if you told it the heavier gross weight or the actual?


And Asprn I thought everything had to have Type Approval before its given a number plate? Either done by the manufacturer for the whole type (eg a model of Ford Focus), or for every individual vehicle produced (like unusual imports from Japan, or the kit car I built years ago). There was no "plate" for the later, just sending off the SVA (Type Approval for one offs or low volume manufacturers) test pass resulted in being given a reg no, therefore recognising its type approval and road legaility?

Jason


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

rayc said:


> loddy said:
> 
> 
> > I have 3 vehicles and 1 has a plate (reg 09) the 2 others do not
> ...


Make it as light as possible


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Make it as heavy as possible if fitted with a load sensing valve...


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

locrep said:


> Asprn, I am sure you are a Gentleman


Of that, you can be assured. 



locrep said:


> ...if you look on your vehicle's you will find a plate with a very large E followed by numbers


Nope. They're both US imported vehicles, neither of which required Type Approval.

Dougie.


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

So they are both camper vans from America which makes SVA optional.. 8)


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

locrep said:


> So they are both camper vans from America which makes SVA optional.. 8)


Honestly mate, you really should find out facts first before drawing your conclusions. They are not both camper vans from America. :roll:

Dougie.


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Well if was not such a guessing game it would make it easier, but you are probably right and I should keep quiet, Thanks for the advise


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

locrep said:


> Well if was not such a guessing game it would make it easier, but you are probably right and I should keep quiet, Thanks for the advise


I didn't advise you to keep quiet - that would have been rude and ignorant. I suggested that perhaps ascertaining facts is generally a helpful way of progressing a discussion, and that you had drawn conclusions based on supposition (or a guessing game, if you like  ).

Dougie.


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