# Nationwide about to charge for overseas transactions



## lalala

This could be a total red herring but we have heard that next week Nationwide are going to announce changes to their Flex card (whether main account or not) so that all purchases and withdrawals overseas will be charged 2% with an extra flat rate of £1 per transaction.
i phoned Nationwide this evening but the person I spoke to said they knew nothing of this.
Has anybody heard anything about it or am I entirely wrong? I do hope the latter!
lala?


----------



## Zebedee

The information on their website is so self-contradictory and confusing that I can't answer your question Lala, in spite of spending a lot of time looking into it with another Mod. :roll: 

Sorry, you know as much as we do - all I can suggest is that you have a go at their site. You may spot something we missed.

Please let us know if you get a definitive answer.

Dave


----------



## bognormike

another mod here!!

we had some discussions on this earlier this week (?) and a few months back - have a look at this times on line link

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/savings/article7078560.ece

:?


----------



## Zebedee

From the article BognorMike highlighted above.

"_Nationwide emphasised that the change was positive for most of its customers. "Only a minority of our members have a cash card account and only 10% of those use it overseas," _it said."

If only *10% of a minority* use the card overseas, why are they being so mean and penny-pinching by stopping the service? :roll: 8O

Dave


----------



## lalala

Thanks, just back from holiday and hadn't seen much of the latest forum posts. 
What we have been told is that this new change is not about the Flex plus card announced earlier this year, but will affect all cards. We have a main account but have been told we will be charged.
From what I can see on the Nationwide website if you have a main Flex account you won't be charged but it could be all set to change August 2cnd.
We shall wait and see.
Lala


----------



## Hobbyfan

I've just checked Nationwide's website as I have a Flex Account and it's of great interest to me.

I found the web site simple and clear. Look under 'Foreign Transactions' and it states that all cash withdrawals are free of charge in most European countries. It then lists almost every country in the world and tells you quite clearly whether or not a country will charge extra.

The extra charge in more remote places and countries outside the EU is 1%.

I could find nothing during my quick glance regarding any forthcoming change to this policy and I would have thought that Nationwide is obliged to inform its customers of any major changes in its terms and conditions, although I'm not certain if this is in fact obligatory.

Someone mentioned a possible change on August 2nd. Does anyone know where this has been announced?


----------



## Zebedee

Hobbyfan said:


> I found the web site simple and clear.





Hobbyfan said:


> I could find nothing during my quick glance . . .


Hi Hobby

I hope you are right, but I suggest you have a "slower" glance on other areas of the website.

The page you found is indeed crystal clear, until you find the contradictions elsewhere on the site.

I hope you will be able to come back and point (_ever so nicely of course_! :lol: ) that I am going senile fast, but I think if you have a really good delve you will be as confused as the rest of us!! 8O :lol:

Dave


----------



## Stanner

Right just done a search and found thses references.



> Nationwide cards that can be used abroad
> 
> Only VISA and MasterCard / Cirrus supported cards can be used to make purchases or withdraw cash abroad, they include:
> 
> * FlexAccount
> * Credit card
> 
> Nationwide savings accounts that have cash cards cannot be used to make purchases or withdraw cash abroad.





> Visa charges when making foreign transactions
> 
> For details of charges on foreign transaction and an 'A-Z list of countries', where you can find out if you'll be charged in the country you're visiting, follow this link to our foreign transactions page.





> Third party charges
> 
> Nationwide continues to offer "commission-free" foreign transactions.
> 
> "Commission-free" means that we do not add any additional charges for exchanging currency which are designed to generate profit for the Society. We do, however, pass on any fee we incur from our card scheme providers for processing transactions in certain currencies (generally those outside of the European Economic Area and Turkey and Israel) other than sterling.
> 
> The fee is currently 1.00% and it will be included in the sterling amount shown on your statement.
> 
> The list below provides details of the countries for which a fee is charged. To check if you will be charged, please search for the country you are visiting by using the A-Z list. Unless stated otherwise a fee will be charged.
> 
> If you have any other questions regarding these charges, please phone 08457 30 20 10 or talk to an advisor at one of our branches.


So from what I can see

Only Flexaccount and Credit cards can be used abroad NOT Cash Cards.
When used in certain countries (as shown in a list) NW will pass on 3rd party (i.e. Visa) charges as a 1% fee.

I can't find anything else, so if I'm missing something obvious I'd be grateful for it to be pointed out to me.


----------



## Zebedee

Thanks Stanner  

Have you figured out the difference between a Flexaccount Card, a Cash Car and a Cash Card +. It seems to vary according to which type of account you have?? :roll: 

I have a Flexaccount and the only card I have for it is a Cash Card, which was replaced only a week or so ago, and it is still a Cash Card . . . not a Cash Card +, in spite of what has been announced and reported here several times. 8O 

And what is the difference between a Current Account and a Flexaccount? The two appear to be interchangeable depending upon which page of information you are looking at?

Confused I am . . . think I'll go back to bed!! 8O 8O 

Dave


----------



## Stanner

Forget the pages and look at the card and the statements.

If the card has Visa in the top RH corner it can be used abroad as it is Visa "supported".

If your statements have "FlexAccount" in the top LH corner it is a FlexAccount.

My cards have "Visa" in the top RH corner and are marked as "Debit" (not cash of any kind) Cards, my statements have "FlexAccount" in the top LH corner and so the charges (where charged by Visa) are currently 1% of the transaction - so far as I'm concerned that is all I need to know.

If you really don't know/understand what sort of account you have and thus what sort of card you have and feel you would like to have a different sort of account/card, why not contact Nationwide, ask them to clarify the situation and explain your options.


----------



## Zebedee

Stanner said:


> If you really don't know/understand what sort of account you have and thus what sort of card you have and feel you would like to have a different sort of account/card, why not contact Nationwide, ask them to clarify the situation and explain your options.


I did! :wink:

The girl who answered the phone knew no more than me, and said there was no-one available who might know. :roll: :roll:

At which point I lost interest! 8O

I did have a few thousand in one of their e-Bonds, as well as using the Flexaccount for ATM withdrawals abroad, so I wasn't entirely "freeloading". :roll:

They just seem to have no idea of their own products and services though (_at least in our local branch_) so I only have a couple of hundred in the Flexaccount now!! :roll:

Dave


----------



## peedee

I concure with Stanner's statement :


> Only Flexaccount and Credit cards can be used abroad NOT Cash Cards.
> When used in certain countries (as shown in a list) NW will pass on 3rd party (i.e. Visa) charges as a 1% fee.


If they are supposed to have introduced charges they haven't yet on the full Flexaccount debit card which I have. I have just come back from cruising the Med and used the card in 4 different countries and no charge was levid.

I take it that a cash card is issued against an account which does not receive regular deposits. I used to have one of these but converted to a full flex account a couple of years back.

peedee


----------



## Zozzer

Stanner said:


> Forget the pages and look at the card and the statements.
> 
> If the card has Visa in the top RH corner it can be used abroad as it is Visa "supported".
> 
> If your statements have "FlexAccount" in the top LH corner it is a FlexAccount.
> 
> My cards have "Visa" in the top RH corner and are marked as "Debit" (not cash of any kind) Cards, my statements have "FlexAccount" in the top LH corner and so the charges (where charged by Visa) are currently 1% of the transaction - so far as I'm concerned that is all I need to know.
> 
> If you really don't know/understand what sort of account you have and thus what sort of card you have and feel you would like to have a different sort of account/card, why not contact Nationwide, ask them to clarify the situation and explain your options.


I think Stanner is correct on this.

Some NW customers have accounts with passbooks whereby they deposit money into the account by calling into the branch. 
They also have a CASH CARD which they can use outside branch opening times to withdraw money at ATM's.

Flexaccount customers don't have cash cards, they have DEBIT CARDS, which can be used to withdraw cash from an ATM or to purchase goods in shops.


----------



## peedee

I concur with Stanner's statement : 


> Only Flexaccount and Credit cards can be used abroad NOT Cash Cards.
> When used in certain countries (as shown in a list) NW will pass on 3rd party (i.e. Visa) charges as a 1% fee.


If they are supposed to have introduced charges they haven't yet on the full Flexaccount debit card which I have. I have just come back from cruising the Med and used the card in 4 different countries and no charge was levied.

I take it that a cash card is issued against an account which does not receive regular deposits. I used to have one of these but converted to a full flex account a couple of years back.

peedee


----------



## chasper

I have a Flexaccount, it is my main bank account and my salary is paid in monthly, i have a visa debit card and also a visa gold credit card. I assume that if i use the debit card in an ATM when abroad i will not be charged a transaction fee, but if i use the credit card i will. chasper.


----------



## lalala

It appears that you can have a Flexaccount main account, which doesn't have to be a current account, or a Flexaccount main account which is a current account. You can also have a Flexaccount which isn't a main account, these are what they were changing to 'plus' accounts.
Nationwide were/are going to charge plus accounts for overseas transactions and this was announced a while ago.
We have a main account linked to an e-account, which isn't a main current account. 
However we have been told that all accounts are soon to be charged for overseas purchases and cash withdrawals, 2% + £1 per transaction. From what your replies indicate this is probably not correct so we shall have to see if there is any announcement on Monday. We hope we have been wrongly informed!
Lala


----------



## raynipper

Maybe it's time to open a Post Office Credit Card account as they do not at the present time charge any 'foreign' transaction levy.

I think many CCs do charge up to 2.95% levy on 'foreign' transactions even when your home address and the account is billed to is outside the UK.

We changed from MBNA to PO and save about £25+ a month.

Ray.


----------



## lalala

thanks Ray, 
it's a good idea though we don't really want another credit card, we like the debit card. But if needs must then we shall look at this option.
We used to use a Saga card but they changed to the Bank of ireland and didn't inform us that we would need to re-apply. We had been wondering when the new cards would arrive then found that they would never arrive, as we hadn't re-applied. Great financial logic there in terms of keeping customers.
We shall wait and see!
Lala


----------



## Hobbyfan

I think that the cheapest option in Europe is a Nationwide debit card, or any other that has no ATM or commission charges.

At one time I'd buy a few hundred Euro before we went so I had cash for small items and then I'd put everything else on my credit card.

Now I don't bother drawing cash up front and am happy to go abroad with just a few Euro for the first car parks, sites etc. 

I then draw cash from ATMs as I need it, usually about 200 Euro at a time and I use my Nationwide debit card for all major purchases, diesel etc.

No more worries about how much to draw before we go and no commission charges of any kind.

I switched my current account to Nationwide a few months ago and have found them to be excellent.


----------



## Phil42

I've had a NW Flexaccount for 3 or 4 years. I use my Visa debit card abroad and am never charged - just got back from France. The interesting part: I've never paid in salary or made regular payments. I just top up the account each time I go abroad. Don't know what NW plans are but there have been a number of these scares previously in the forums and nothing has changed yet.

Phil


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

Ooooh I am so proud to be a member of this mutual organisation, run for members and to line the managements teams pockets.

www.halifax.co.uk for their fee free credit card.

Russell

Come on Tesco Bank, not long now until you offer full service and get the big mutuals running for the hills. Wake up Nationwide and smell the coffee.


----------



## Hobbyfan

*Re: Nationwide*



Rapide561 said:


> Ooooh I am so proud to be a member of this mutual organisation, run for members and to line the managements teams pockets.
> 
> www.halifax.co.uk for their fee free credit card.
> 
> Russell
> 
> Come on Tesco Bank, not long now until you offer full service and get the big mutuals running for the hills. Wake up Nationwide and smell the coffee.


So what's all that about? It's not yet been confirmed that Nationwide is changing its terms! And as for Tesco - God forbid that they get their tentacles on every aspect of our life!


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

The point being Nationwide are clearly "cherry picking" their customers and making things more awkward for some.

Tesco Bank, already operating, will soon be full steam ahead with more staff (800 I think), more products, current accounts and so on. I am certain that this will smack the mutuals hard - those mutuals that are run by members for members, yet how many members seem to be losing benefits etc?

Nationwide currently pays no interest what so ever on it's current account - so I don't lend Nationwide money by leaving my cash there. I am with them for one reason only - and that is the fee free card. If that "perk" goes, I am off!

I have applied for the new Halifax card and note the card also gives you a fiver per month if you spend £300 on it.

Russell


----------



## Hobbyfan

I don't blame Nationwide for wanting to ease out customers who simply open an account so that they can use the card abroad. When I decided to use Nationwide I thought that the decent thing to do was to use the current account as it should be used, as a proper current account.

And as for Tesco - I just hope that its banking charges aren't as bad as its fruit and veg prices for instance, which are much higher than in your local market or green grocers.

Tesco knows that many customers can't be bothered to shop around and racks up its prices accordingly!


----------



## Stanner

Hobbyfan said:


> Tesco knows that many customers can't be bothered to shop around and racks up its prices accordingly!


Ever little helps............. :wink:


----------



## Hezbez

I was just about to try and open a Nationwide Flex Account.
Think I'll shop around a bit more first.


----------



## Rapide561

*Cards*

Here is a post I started a couple of days ago re cards and overseas use. (In order to remove any element of doubt, I am not offering financial advice - the info is all over the internet for you to act upon as you see fit)

Russell

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-90031-cards-overseas-a-couple-of-links.html


----------



## lalala

*Re: Nationwide*



Rapide561 said:


> Ooooh I am so proud to be a member of this mutual organisation, run for members and to line the managements teams pockets.
> 
> www.halifax.co.uk for their fee free credit card.
> 
> Russell
> 
> =.


\

We have just,after reading your post Russell, opened a Halifax Clarity Card account. No fees for purchases anywhere but 12.9% interest on cash, calculated on a daily basis. We pay off each month by direct debit so reckon that if we withdraw cash just before the payment is taken then the interest will be minimal.
Lala


----------



## Hobbyfan

*Re: Nationwide*



> We have just,after reading your post Russell, opened a Halifax Clarity Card account. No fees for purchases anywhere but 12.9% interest on cash, calculated on a daily basis. We pay off each month by direct debit so reckon that if we withdraw cash just before the payment is taken then the interest will be minimal.
> Lala


This sounds to me as though you're drawing cash on a credit card as opposed to a debit card. If you're going to pay it off more or less immediately why not simply draw cash on a debit card?

This way there'd be no risk whatsoever of paying such a large daily interest charge.

Is your Halifax debit card the same as Nationwide's, in that there is no ATM or commission charges? If it is that must be the best way to draw cash I would have thought?


----------



## lalala

We would only use it the Halifax credit card to withdraw cash overseas, never at home. At the moment we use our Nationwide debit card but if what I have been told is true then there will soon be charges on this of 2% + a £1 per transaction fee. This would be more than the Halifax credit card interest charges as it's 12.9% annually but calculated on a daily basis.
The Halifax debit card carries large charges so we wouldn't use that overseas at all, but their Clarity credit card has no transaction charges for purchases and only the interest for cash. 
Even if Nationwide are not going to make overseas charges, and we hope this is the case, it will be useful for us to have another card.
Lala


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Nationwide*



lalala said:


> the interest will be minimal.


Sorry, but do you still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

The answer is No. 
Even if you can draw out the cash just before your statement date it takes about a week for the statement to arrive and you then have to get to the bank or go online to pay the money in.

If you pay it off each month automatically by DD, as I do, that payment is only taken immediately prior to the due date so that could be another 3 or 4 weeks.

Up to 5 weeks at 16.5% "minimal"? I think not.


----------



## lalala

You are of course absolutely right that I do not believe in the tooth fairy, though my granddaughter certainly does and we had to pay out only last week!
You are also right in that I had forgot that there would be a time lapse between the statement date and the due date. In our experience this is between 2 and 3 weeks, but any sums incurred up to the statement date are usually on it. We pay off each month by DD as otherwise it gets too complicated if we are not in the UK. 
The card will still be worth having for purchases though, where there will be no charges as long as the balance is repaid by the due date.
Why do you say 16.5%? I was told 12.9% when I arranged the Clarity card.
Isn't it complicated?
Lala


----------



## Stanner

lalala said:


> You are of course absolutely right that I do not believe in the tooth fairy, though my granddaughter certainly does and we had to pay out only last week!
> You are also right in that I had forgot that there would be a time lapse between the statement date and the due date. In our experience this is between 2 and 3 weeks, but any sums incurred up to the statement date are usually on it. We pay off each month by DD as otherwise it gets too complicated if we are not in the UK.
> The card will still be worth having for purchases though, where there will be no charges as long as the balance is repaid by the due date.
> Why do you say 16.5%? I was told 12.9% when I arranged the Clarity card.
> Isn't it complicated?
> Lala


Sorry must have relied on memory........... 

Thought I'd read 16.5% somewhere and didn't check again before posting.


----------



## Rapide561

*Cards*

Hi

Just to confrim a couple of points.

The Halifax Clarity card does not have any "admin/conversion" fees - typically 2.75% - 4.25% with other banks. You can get an interest free period on putchases overseas, just like most credit cards.

Cash withdrawn overseas - no ATM fees but interest at 12.9%, so for example....

Withdraw £300 at an ATM, repay in full 45 days later and you will pay £4.77 interest.

A typical £300 withdrawal on other cards, with for example a 2.75% fee, would cost £8.25 in fees.

To split hairs further, £300 in a savings account at 2.4% net would earn 88p credit interest. It might of course be the case that if you pay money onto your credit card before you go away, you can avoid the interest fee. So for example, your previous bill is for £400 but you pay £900, then the £500 is there for you.

I recently made the Halifax my main current account bank after what I can only describe as slap dash and sloppy service from the Nationwide. I receive a £5 "thankyou" every month. I will also receive the £5 "thankyou" on the credit card providing I spend £300 per month as a minimum. Once I have spent £300 in any one month, the rest of my spending with revert to the Tesco credit card for the Clubcard points.

Russell

Read this link

Halifax card review

Point three, made by a lady called Anne is true - the Caxton is midway between cash and commercial.


----------



## Waves

Looks like they are going to charge from November.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-war-promises-cheaper-overdrafts-perks.html

John


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

Three cheers for our friendly mutual.

That's my account closure process started. Goodbye Nationwide. Wake up and taste the coffee.

Here is another link to the removal of the perk.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/article.html?in_article_id=510578&in_page_id=7&ct=5

Russell


----------



## peedee

Hmmm could do the same Russel especially as they have been failing to respond to complaints regarding SWIMBos accounts and incorrect deduction of tax.

peedee


----------



## lalala

Hi
I knew my information was good but all the same I'm sorry to see that it was in fact correct. 2% of the sum + £1 per transaction is an horrendous fee when most people use their debit cards for small purchases. So if I spend 10€ in Carrefour the charge by Nationwide will be about 1.40€. And remember this is my money - there is no credit involved.
The person who told me said this will apply to all cards so even those who have the Flexaccount as their main current account will be paying.
I opened a Halifax Clarity card account yesterday.
We will look seriously at withdrawing from our various Nationwide accounts. Of course people like us who use the debit card for overseas withdrawals on a fairly regular basis are in the minority so Nationwide will have factored into their decision the knock-on effect of alienating some customers.
At least we can use the Nationwide card for this holiday.
Lala


----------



## raynipper

This is a worry as Nationwide is falling into line with the rest of the 'Cartel'. How long before the remaining two providers (PO & Saga) also follow their lead?

Ray.


----------



## geraldandannie

Interesting information in the article in the Guardian today:

_"Nationwide has been frustrated by the number of customers who use the FlexAccount purely for travel purposes and who maintain their principal bank account elsewhere. Of the 3.5 million people with a FlexAccount, only 1.2 million use it as their main account."_

:: LINK ::

So there are 2.3 million people probably only using it for cash withdrawal overseas :lol: Nationwide were a bit naive if they thought people wouldn't do that :roll:

Gerald


----------



## Rapide561

*Banks*

An interesting point Ray, but given that the mighty Halifax has bucked the trend, the party may not be over yet.

My solution is simple - account closure imminent.

Russell


----------



## tonyt

I'm no financial expert so humour me please.


A NW FlexAccount has been offering no charge Debit Card cash withdrawals. Obviously to make such withdrawals, you have to have funds in the account but received minimal interest on those funds.

Instead of having that money sitting in the FlexAccount, you had it sitting in a credit card account, like Halifax Clarity, on which no charge is made for withdrawals, surely all you will have lost is the paultry NW interest? There would be no credit amount attracting any interest charges.

Have I got it wrong?


----------



## Hobbyfan

Having recently switched my main account to Nationwide I now feel betrayed by them and will be writing to the CEO, not that it will do much good.

I do feel annoyed though by what I consider to be selfish people who opened a Nationwide Flexaccount and then simply cherry picked its best feature and didn't give the bank any normal business.

They are the reason that Nationwide has stopped its generous cash withdrawal terms and its annoying to those of us who have made what we consider to be the decent and moral approach and switched our accounts completely.

Unfortunately, I can see how difficult it is for the building society to draw a line on what is normal use of an account and what is a selfish interpretation of what it should be so we all have to suffer.

Nationwide may have been naive in hoping that people opening a current account with them would actually use it as a current account and they have obviously miscalculated on what a selfish and unprincipled lot the British public has become when it comes to saving themselves a few bob.


----------



## bozzer

Has anyone been notified of the changes? We haven't.

On reading the article it said travel insurance would be given in return however again there is no information on NW website.

Jan


----------



## raynipper

Hobbyfan said:


> Having recently switched my main account to Nationwide I now feel betrayed by them and will be writing to the CEO, not that it will do much good.
> 
> I do feel annoyed though by what I consider to be selfish people who opened a Nationwide Flexaccount and then simply cherry picked its best feature and didn't give the bank any normal business.
> 
> They are the reason that Nationwide has stopped its generous cash withdrawal terms and its annoying to those of us who have made what we consider to be the decent and moral approach and switched our accounts completely.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can see how difficult it is for the building society to draw a line on what is normal use of an account and what is a selfish interpretation of what it should be so we all have to suffer.
> 
> Nationwide may have been naive in hoping that people opening a current account with them would actually use it as a current account and they have obviously miscalculated on what a selfish and unprincipled lot the British public has become when it comes to saving themselves a few bob.


So are we not supposed to shop around and choose the account and services that serve our needs?

Financial institutions do just this when deciding which customers they are prepared to deal with.

Ray.


----------



## tonyt

bozzer said:


> .................
> On reading the article it said travel insurance would be given in return however again there is no information on NW website.
> 
> Jan


... but apparently only for the account holder and not his travel party (family) and only up to age 65.


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Banks*



Rapide561 said:


> An interesting point Ray, but given that the mighty Halifax has bucked the trend, the party may not be over yet.
> 
> My solution is simple - account closure imminent.
> 
> Russell


What do you think the Halifax response will be to a hoard of people swapping over to their Clarity card and then using it as a pre-paid debit card NOT as a Credit Card, so Halifax get no income from it whatsoever?

Just the same as N/Wide did to the same people who tried to use Flexaccounts in the same way?

Best stick to the wonderful benevolent Tesco.

"Every little helps":wink:


----------



## Hobbyfan

raynipper said:


> So are we not supposed to shop around and choose the account and services that serve our needs?
> 
> Financial institutions do just this when deciding which customers they are prepared to deal with.
> 
> Ray.


Of course you are, but I for one am also prepared to exercise a little morality and use the account as it's supposed to be used and not cherry-pick just one feature. Halifax will be the next to change its terms when it gets thousands of people who'll open an account and do the same thing.

I know people who will always buy a nearly-new car from a car supermarket but have no problem whatsoever in going into their local main dealer and spending an hour looking at vehicles and having test drives, knowing that they have no intention of buying.

If you're considering buying and are going to two or three dealers, then that's fine, as the most competitive, or the one that you like best will get your business. But if you know that you've no intention at all of buying then, in my book, it's immoral.

In my view the people who have cherry-picked Nationwide's generous overseas transactions' facility but used their account for nothing else come into the same league as those using a car main-dealer when they know that they've no intention of buying.

I know that my views may be considered old-fashioned in this 'me me me' culture that we now live in, but I shall be sticking to them.


----------



## tonyt

Hobbyfan said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are we not supposed to shop around and choose the account and services that serve our needs?
> 
> Financial institutions do just this when deciding which customers they are prepared to deal with.
> 
> Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you are, but I for one am also prepared to exercise a little morality and use the account as it's supposed to be used and not cherry-pick just one feature. Halifax will be the next to change its terms when it gets thousands of people who'll open an account and do the same thing.
> 
> I know people who will always buy a nearly-new car from a car supermarket but have no problem whatsoever in going into their local main dealer and spending an hour looking at vehicles and having test drives, knowing that they have no intention of buying.
> 
> If you're considering buying and are going to two or three dealers, then that's fine, as the most competitive, or the one that you like best will get your business. But if you know that you've no intention at all of buying then, in my book, it's immoral.
> 
> In my view the people who have cherry-picked Nationwide's generous overseas transactions' facility but used their account for nothing else come into the same league as those using a car main-dealer when they know that they've no intention of buying.
> 
> I know that my views may be considered old-fashioned in this 'me me me' culture that we now live in, but I shall be sticking to them.
Click to expand...

Good on you for standing up for your beliefs, and voicing them.

However, I'm one of those who uses my NW account primarily to support my cash withdrawals overseas - both Europe and beyond. I spend about 5 months each year travelling and visiting atms all over the place.
My view is that to enable me to draw cash I have to have the funds in place for which I get virtually no return. NW has my money and uses it, as is their trade, to finance loans to others so I feel perfectly moral in using their service to suit my needs.
I'm also a person who would definitely shop around outlets, viewing goods that I knew I would eventually purchase elsewhere. Perfectly acceptable conduct (in my opinion) 

Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all agreed with each other about everything.


----------



## Zozzer

I'm really annoyed at this announcement. It shows no loyalty to those customers who have used their Nationwide current accounts in the correct manner.

Nationwide could very easily have altered the terms and conditons of the account in such a way that it would penalise customers who abuse the account whilst still allowing free transactions to those who don't.

But no, Nationwide decided to penalise EVERYONE.

That being the case I see no reason why I should allow them to my money. Close all the accounts with Nationwide, and transfer my Cash ISA's elsewhere.


----------



## Hobbyfan

*Re: Banks*



Stanner said:


> Best stick to the wonderful benevolent Tesco.
> 
> "Every little helps":wink:


I've just spent five minutes online and cannot find a Tesco current account and debit card. I'd consider Tesco should I decide to leave Nationwide.

Am I missing something here? Does Tesco offer a current account and is it me that just can't find it?

Thanks.

Hobby


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

A few more points then.

1) A credit card will earn the bank more income than the debit card. For example, the cost of using the credit card will cost the merchant - ie the retailer - Debenhams, Tesco, Shell etc a percentage of the fee. So for instance a £6000.00 holiday might "cost" the travel agent 2.5% of the holiday cost - so that is £150.00. To this end, some retailers now add on a credit card cost. In my own case, the holiday cost for 12 of us to Tenerife is about £6000.00 but in order to avoid the fee, I paid by debit card having collected the cash from the other troops.

2) Debit cards often have a set fee - such as 25p per transaction. So, in the case of the holiday above, the travel agent will absorb the 25p (or whatever the minimal cost is) and thus paying by debit card is free.

Therefore, using points one and two as an example, a credit card provider may well have a source of income from the card.

Furthermore, some customers will not repay the card balance in full and thus the card issuer earns further revenue from charging interest.

Now as for the mighty Nationwide, who took the Cheshire, the Derbyshire and the Dunfermline from it's members without so much as a vote or consulation, did you really think the Nationwide would consult its' members about such a tiny event as withdrawing the fee free usage overseas?

A few years ago, there were over 100 mutuals, today, there are less than 60. Recent mergers have seen the Britannia become part of the Co-op, the three above as mentioned, the Barnsley fell into the hands of the Yorkshire and with controversy, the Scarboro - resulting in many job losses recently, is part of the Skipton. The list goes on and on.

I applied for my Halifax card the other day and it should be here soon. The free fiver per month will likely outweigh any possible interest I may pay although as said, I shall put the card into a credit balance situation. Despite this, the Halifax will still earn a percentage of anything I spend.

Savvy customers will note there are some cards in the market place that offer a huge 5% cash back on spending. This is covered within the fees etc.

Play the market and fight the pirates.

Russell


----------



## Rapide561

*Re: Banks*



Hobbyfan said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best stick to the wonderful benevolent Tesco.
> 
> "Every little helps":wink:
> 
> 
> 
> I've just spent five minutes online and cannot find a Tesco current account and debit card. I'd consider Tesco should I decide to leave Nationwide.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Does Tesco offer a current account and is it me that just can't find it?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Hobby
Click to expand...

Tesco Bank does not offer a current account at present, but from what I read and so on, it is imminent and I believe is being piloted in a few of it's instore banks. Oooh, a bank with free parking and plenty of it. Why did n't someone else think of that?

Russell

Bear with me and I will try to find the info re the pilot branches etc.


----------



## Phil42

O.K., so given that it's now clear that NW are going to charge for overseas withdrawals, what's the next best option? Most of those mentioned so far involve charges. What about pre-loaded cash cards such as Caxton fx? Anyone know of any disadvantages?

Phil


----------



## lalala

Well I'm away on holiday to use my Nationwide card for possibly the last time. Glad I found out before going away.
Have a good summer everyone
lala


----------



## Stanner

Zozzer said:


> But no, Nationwide decided to penalise EVERYONE.


But have they?

I went to NZ for 5 weeks earlier in the year and fully expected to get charged the 1% Visa fee for out of EU (or whatever) purchases as NZ is clearly shown as "fee payable".

I used N/Wide Debit and Credit cards as well in a couple of cases a Lloyds/TSB Duo (M/Card/AMEX) Card.

So far as I can see the N/Wide card was about 3% cheaper than the LTSB cards - I can see no sign of any separate charges being levied.

Perhaps those who have been using the accounts as intended/expected have been marked up as "leave alone".

Also I recently inadvertently incurred a £30 "returned payment" penalty because I thought I had cancelled a payment - but hadn't - when there wasn't enough money in a secondary account to pay it.

I visit to the local branch (where they know me by name) and a brief explanation and apology for my error got the penalty cancelled - the fact they could see that it was an aberration and that my account(s) were generally run responsibly probably helped no end. I doubt if an account run in the way of some others would have been dealt with so charitably.

I think you probably end up with a service requisite to your actions.


----------



## Rapide561

*Bits*

Stanner is correct about how rates and charges can vary from bank to bank. Here is a thread from a few years ago.

Rate comparison Cahoot & Nationwide. 

Phil - for your info

As I see it, the Caxton has some drawbacks.

1) Funds held on the card - ie preloaded and ready to spend - are not covered by the FSCS - financial services compensation scheme. I have an email from the FSCS and this was copied and pasted onto a "Caxton" thread within MHF

2) Refusal of card - my Caxton card was refused numerous times in Italy. I also met up with another MHF'er - HikerG - and he had the same issues.

3) No interest is earned on the funds preloaded to the card.

4) The rate is somewhere midway between commercial and cash. Today for example, the BBC quote 1.2037 for the Euro, Travelex offer 1.162 and Caxton are loading at 1.18.

I suggest that those interested in the cards and so on use the following websites for further information

www.moneysupermarket.com

www.thisismoney.co.uk

www.moneysavingexpert.com

Russell


----------



## Phil42

Thanks - very helpful. But just looked at the Caxton site and they're quoting 1.2026. How often do they change their rate?

Phil


----------



## ActiveCampers

According to The Mail (no - I didn't buy it!) the Nationwide fees change in November.

I used to love Nationwide but going off them rather rapidly...


----------



## Rapide561

*Caxton*

Phil

If you look at www.caxtonfx.com they are indeed quoting 1.2026 - with a note underneath stating that is the interbank rate - similar therefore to that offered by the BBC

If you click on cards at the top of the Caxton webpage, the rate to load is quoted at 1.18

Russell


----------



## Tobysmumndad

1.2026 is the current interbank MID price. Up till now, the Nationwide have given us what is the interbank BID price as shown here closing prices last night.

I wondered how long the Nationwide could continue with what was plainly a loss leader.


----------



## Phil42

O.K. Thanks again Russell.

Phil


----------



## kaacee

According to today's paper, NW confirmed that the cost of using debit card abroad irrespective of wether you are in Europe or not will be 2%, all ATM transactions will cost £1, this takes effect from the 1st November.

The reason given was that people have been opening a flex account solely to benefit from the no charge and they have not been depositing monies into their account on a monthly basis as required.

They are going to offer free travel insurance to the account holder only and spouses and children will have to pay.

Seems a bit unfair to those that have their salary/pensions paid into the account monthly, I would have thought that account holders that did this could still benefit from the no charge without to much effort on NW's part, but apparently not, and therfore everyboby must pay in future.


----------



## peedee

gudlucker said:


> Seems a bit unfair to those that have their salary/pensions paid into the account monthly, I would have thought that account holders that did this could still benefit from the no charge without to much effort on NW's part, but apparently not, and therfore everyboby must pay in future.


And it is probably through sites like this pointing out the freebie that has resulted in such moves 

peedee


----------



## Zozzer

gudlucker said:


> According to today's paper, NW confirmed that the cost of using debit card abroad irrespective of wether you are in Europe or not will be 2%, all ATM transactions will cost £1, this takes effect from the 1st November.
> 
> The reason given was that people have been opening a flex account solely to benefit from the no charge and they have not been depositing monies into their account on a monthly basis as required.
> 
> They are going to offer free travel insurance to the account holder only and spouses and children will have to pay.
> 
> Seems a bit unfair to those that have their salary/pensions paid into the account monthly, I would have thought that account holders that did this could still benefit from the no charge without to much effort on NW's part, but apparently not, and therfore everyboby must pay in future.


They are only offering free travel insurance to the account holder who pays more than £750 a month into an account and is below the age of 65.

Now if that isn't age discrimination then I don't know what is.

It appears to me that all those savers who have been with the Nationwide for much of their working life and contributed to wealth of the building society, have now upon retirement by given the two fingered salute.

How long before Nationwide start charging transaction fees for those who settle their card card bills in full each month.


----------



## Stanner

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...ith-travel-insurance-and-bank-charge-shake-up


----------



## bozzer

Have sent NW email saying how annoyed we are to find out by news and after 5 years we will be moving our pensions. 

Off to Santander tomorrow to set up new account and get the 5% for 12 months and the £100 for moving account. 

Will pop into Halifax and get the credit card at 0% commision. Already have an account there.

Will keep Flexaccount and may use it to withdraw money abroad at £1 charge for £300 when we need cash unless we find anything better.

Jan


----------



## baldlygo

*Nationwide changes*



bozzer said:


> Will keep Flexaccount and may use it to withdraw money abroad at £1 charge for £300 when we need cash unless we find anything better.
> 
> Jan


My understanding is that for £300 of €s you will be charged £7 (2% plus £1). NW claim this will still beat other common cards.

Since my income is now less than £8000 pa I will not be able to get one of the other zero cards so I will be hoping the situation changes before November. Trying to look on the bright side - at least I should still get more €s per pound now than I did the same time last year.

Paul


----------



## ambegayo

*Nationwide \\bs new rules*

Sunday Mail reported Nationwide will in future charge 2% for transactions abroad. This is in response that non banking customers are taking out account for the benefits it gives them abroad. 'we transfered our bank when Portman became a bank and feel this is penelising us for the ones who use the facilities for the benefits abroad. So because of those who do not pay in a monthlhy regular sum of £700 or above we will lose the benefits we hetherto held. will be writing to nationwide, not that it will do much good but we shoud all make our rrepute heard.


----------



## barrosa

The mail as usual trying to stir it up just got my card bill with a leaflet dated july free in the EU 1% rest of the world, sooner believe N/W than the mail!


----------



## locovan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/31/nationwide-flexaccount-charge-withdrawals

Today it is doubling that fee and removing the exemption for Europe. On purchases in shops and restaurants abroad, debit card customers will pay a 2% conversion fee, while at ATMs there will be a 2% fee plus a £1 flat rate. The fee for credit card purchases abroad will remain 1%.

Nationwide has been frustrated by the number of customers who use the FlexAccount purely for travel purposes and who maintain their principal bank account elsewhere. Of the 3.5 million people with a FlexAccount, only 1.2 million use it as their main account.

Im reading it that you must use the bank as a main bank with your income being paid into it and not so you just put a bit in to cover you on holiday as most of us do.


----------



## Hobbyfan

barrosa said:


> The mail as usual trying to stir it up just got my card bill with a leaflet dated july free in the EU 1% rest of the world, sooner believe N/W than the mail!


Perhaps you'll believe the Guardian then, which is saying the same thing! Do you really believe that any newspaper would print lies just to stir things up.

Do you know what the word 'libel' means?


----------



## seanoo

morning all, just spoke to nationwide and the new changes described above come into affect on 1st november. they say they are looking into it though up till then after a lot of complaints from customers. hope they change their mind , but wont hold my breath. all the best sean


----------



## baldlygo

locovan said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/31/nationwide-flexaccount-charge-withdrawals
> Nationwide has been frustrated by the number of customers who use the FlexAccount purely for travel purposes and who maintain their principal bank account elsewhere. Of the 3.5 million people with a FlexAccount, only 1.2 million use it as their main account.
> 
> Im reading it that you must use the bank as a main bank with your income being paid into it and not so you just put a bit in to cover you on holiday as most of us do.


So 2.3 million people are only putting in a few hundred at a time. Not much profit in that for Nationwide then :!: :!: :!:

Paul


----------



## Stanner

This thread already covers the matter..........
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopt...bout-to-charge-for-overseas-transactions.html


----------



## Stanner

baldlygo said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/31/nationwide-flexaccount-charge-withdrawals
> Nationwide has been frustrated by the number of customers who use the FlexAccount purely for travel purposes and who maintain their principal bank account elsewhere. Of the 3.5 million people with a FlexAccount, only 1.2 million use it as their main account.
> 
> Im reading it that you must use the bank as a main bank with your income being paid into it and not so you just put a bit in to cover you on holiday as most of us do.
> 
> 
> 
> So 2.3 million people are only putting in a few hundred at a time. Not much profit in that for Nationwide then :!: :!: :!:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...

Not compared to the costs involved and as it's a debit card N/Wide don't even get much income from merchants either after Visa's fees have been taken off.


----------



## inkey-2008

If you use Nationwide why not go the their site long on and send a letter disagreeing with the planned changes to free EU banking.

If enough people do then they may listen to us. 

I you are only using them for the free banking why not change over to them completely.

Andy


----------



## bozzer

Have emailed them. As explained in the other thread which was running yesterday. 

Perhaps mods could put both threads together.

Jan


----------



## Hobbyfan

baldlygo said:


> So 2.3 million people are only putting in a few hundred at a time. Not much profit in that for Nationwide then :!: :!: :!:
> 
> Paul


Of course there's no profit in it, you don't need to be a maths genius to work it out.

You open a Nationwide Flex account and this is what happens:

They have to open and run the account and and send you a chequebook and a debit card.

So you decide just to use it for drawing cash abroad and, let's be generous, and say that you deposit £1000 for your holiday, not once but twice.

The NW gets the use of your money, which is a declining balance, for maybe six weeks, so if you average it out at £500 for the six weeks and they can lend that money at 5% p.a. they will earn the princely gross sum of about £3.00.

And let's face it, some people only go abroad once a year so I'm erring on the generous side!

Do you think it makes good business sense to open an account for someone, give them a debit card etc. for the sum of £3.00?

Selfish people who opened a NW account and simply cherry-picked its best feature and did not use it as a proper current account have buggered things up for the rest of us!


----------



## Telbell

Those affected by this cahnge should consider a Santander Zero Credit Card.

No transaction charges abroad, and when we last used ours a few weeks ago the statement showed a very reasonable. 1.237 Euro exchange rate


----------



## Bob45

*Nationwide \\bs new rules*

An alternative would be to go for a card from one of the companies specialising in foreign currencies where you can load up the card before you go or during the trip.
It is mentioned in the Caravan Club Maga zine this month.

Bob


----------



## ICDSUN

Telbell said:


> Those affected by this cahnge should consider a Santander Zero Credit Card.
> 
> No transaction charges abroad, and when we last used ours a few weeks ago the statement showed a very reasonable. 1.237 Euro exchange rate


If the changes do go through as expected it won't be too long for the rest of the parasites :twisted: sorry!!! banks to follow suit, overseas personal transactions are a small percentage of their business with a disproportionately high cost to operate, we are all slowly being forced towards a cashless society by the banks, they are steadily removing choice as they all are offering similar deals, some are looking forward to the Great God Tesco to move fully into banking, they can do to the banks what they have done to your local shops 

In the main Personal Bank customers are just waiting to be milked dry by the banks, Tesco will show them how and teach them how to convince customers they are getting a good deal :lol: Your relevance as a customer has little bearing on what you need but what they will allow you to have

Chris


----------



## baldlygo

Hobbyfan said:


> .......
> Selfish people who opened a NW account and simply cherry-picked its best feature and did not use it as a proper current account have buggered things up for the rest of us!


That must include me then :roll:

I did consider making NW my main bank account earlier on but if these changes do happen as described then I shall be very pleased I did not do it.

Maybe NW do have scope to make some adjustments. I do use my NW card for most of my purchases here in France because it is free and easy. However I could easily change to my French card which would also be free (although I pay an annual fee on my French account). Then all I need from NW is the exchanged €s at the best possible rate.

All my spending would then pass through the NW account - I do not have a cheque book btw and do not have paper statements, so the costs of running my account should be a minimum and with 2 million other people doing similar they should be able to make a profit out of us.

Paul


----------



## Hobbyfan

baldlygo said:


> [
> 
> .............. and with 2 million other people doing similar they should be able to make a profit out of us.
> 
> Paul


I sometimes wonder how people's minds work! If Nationwide loses money on the accounts run by people who simply cherry pick the foreign transactions feature, then the more people doing it, the more they are losing.

If you lose £10.00 pounds per customer and have a few hundred clients then that's not too bad but the fact that there are two million people abusing the account makes it many times worse!

Is that so hard to understand!

If Nationwide was making money from customers like you, they'd be encouraging more and more people to join, take a Flex Account and use it just for foreign transactions.

But they're not - they want rid of you. Now I wonder why that is? 

As I said above, you don't need a maths degree. Look at your account and see how much cash you've put in it and for how long. Banks make money by lending at a higher rate of interest than they give depositors.

If you were to give NW £1000 for two months and they could get 5% on it, they'd make £8.33. If you think that you could run an account for someone, supply them with a debit card, allow a bit for fraudulent transactions etc. then you should go into banking!

However, most people give them less for a shorter time and the balance declines as the holiday progresses!


----------



## coppo

Hobbyfan said:


> baldlygo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> .............. and with 2 million other people doing similar they should be able to make a profit out of us.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes wonder how people's minds work! If Nationwide loses money on the accounts run by people who simply cherry pick the foreign transactions feature, then the more people doing it, the more they are losing.
> 
> If you lose £10.00 pounds per customer and have a few hundred clients then that's not too bad but the fact that there are two million people abusing the account makes it many times worse!
> 
> Is that so hard to understand!
> 
> If Nationwide was making money from customers like you, they'd be encouraging more and more people to join, take a Flex Account and use it just for foreign transactions.
> 
> But they're not - they want rid of you. Now I wonder why that is?
> 
> As I said above, you don't need a maths degree. Look at your account and see how much cash you've put in it and for how long. Banks make money by lending at a higher rate of interest than they give depositors.
> 
> If you were to give NW £1000 for two months and they could get 5% on it, they'd make £8.33. If you think that you could run an account for someone, supply them with a debit card, allow a bit for fraudulent transactions etc. then you should go into banking!
> 
> However, most people give them less for a shorter time and the balance declines as the holiday progresses!
Click to expand...

But dont forget the people who have lump sums with nationwide like us, we dont use the flex account as our main account but are one of the people(who have buggered it for others) you describe, however we said to the Nationwide at the time of opening that because of the good it did us we were investing £30,000 in isa,s /bonds etc and the money is still there. We will now invest this elsewhere.

Paul.


----------



## pete4x4

The trouble with Nationwide is it's not a particularly good bank. Now I have a Flex account with them because I have a large amount of savings with them and a big mortgage.

It is only recently that they have joined the fast transfer route and they still don't have any mobile banking so for me they don't meet my criteria for a current account. They are however a building society so they get some of my savings.

As a consequence I use their credit card and debit card for foreign transactions. Makes their crap savings rates a bit better.


----------



## Hobbyfan

> .................however we said to the Nationwide at the time of opening that because of the good it did us we were investing £30,000 in isa,s /bonds etc and the money is still there. We will now invest this elsewhere.
> Paul.


Good for you, but what has the fact that you have ISAs to do with having a current account? The interest on your ISA is the reward that you get for the ISA and if it wasn't a decent rate you'd move it!

I don't think there are many people who would leave their dosh in a Nationwide ISA that paid a low rate just as a way of saying 'thank you' for the privilege of having a current account that lets them draw cash abroad for nothing!

Total red herring!


----------



## Stanner

pete4x4 said:


> The trouble with Nationwide is it's not a particularly good bank.


The Nationwide is not a bank - it is still a building society and different rules and regulations apply. 
It cannot do everything a bank does in the same way that a bank does it.


----------



## pete4x4

Exactly so why would you want to use it as a bank when it's a budding society there to serve it's members.


----------



## pfil32

Just had a reply from Nationwide and it says that the 2% fee and £1 flat charge is still very competitive. I don't know as I am one of those loyal customers who have had my FlexAccount for years and have never used other banks debit cards abroad. It also states that their credit card is still free to use in Europe so I guess everything I buy in future (not Cash) will be with their credit card. I do not usually take a lot of Euro's with me but in future I will just have to make sure I have enough with me to eliminate the need for drawing out any cash at an ATM whilst I am in France etc.

Phil


----------



## Hobbyfan

pete4x4 said:


> Exactly so why would you want to use it as a bank when it's a budding society there to serve it's members.


Even mutuals have a duty to act sensibly. They are not serving their members if they have two million people using an account in a manner that causes them to lose money.

Building society, bank or charity - it's irrelevant. They all have a duty to their members or shareholders to run their operation efficiently.


----------



## Rosbotham

pfil32 said:


> I do not usually take a lot of Euro's with me but in future I will just have to make sure I have enough with me to eliminate the need for drawing out any cash at an ATM whilst I am in France etc.


Now this is one area that does bamboozle me. 2% + £1 equates to a 2.5% transaction fee if withdrawing in £200 chunks, or a fiver a go. Yet in order to avoid that, people on holiday are willing to e.g. take out six hundred quid from Thomas Cook before they go and carry it with them. Or if not that, leave it in their motorhome. Would anyone seriously ever consider carrying that kind of money around with them at home? It's as if because it's not got the queens head on it, it doesn't count as real money so you don't need to worry about losing it or being mugged. Don't get me wrong, I don't like paying that fiver transaction fee but better that than risk losing a wad of cash.

This isn't aimed at you directly Phil, more at tourists who'll happily carry significant sums of money to avoid having to use an ATM (including my friends, from when it's been raised in conversation)..I do wonder whether people leave their brains at home when they go off on holiday...

Paul


----------



## Hobbyfan

If I stay with Nationwide I'll probably increase my withdrawals from 100 Euro at a time to 300.

The 2% commission will be the same but you'll only pay the £1.00 ATM fee once!

Spread between me and my wife, 300 Euro isn't a lot to worry about.


----------



## bozzer

We've been with NW for 5 years with pension going into current account. I always thought the poor interest was offset by the 0% use in Europe. 

However if this does go through, as I imagine it will, we'll move our pensions to Santander, get the £100 and 5%. If NW is keeping 0% on credit card we'll use that and use Flexaccount as others have and move money in when we want to withdraw cash.

What annoys me is this Mutual Building Society has not let it's members know what is happening before the newspapers.

Jan


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Hobbyfan said:


> .................however we said to the Nationwide at the time of opening that because of the good it did us we were investing £30,000 in isa,s /bonds etc and the money is still there. We will now invest this elsewhere.
> Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you, but what has the fact that you have ISAs to do with having a current account? The interest on your ISA is the reward that you get for the ISA and if it wasn't a decent rate you'd move it!
> 
> I don't think there are many people who would leave their dosh in a Nationwide ISA that paid a low rate just as a way of saying 'thank you' for the privilege of having a current account that lets them draw cash abroad for nothing!
> 
> Total red herring!
Click to expand...

Not a red herring at all! It brings out a point that I don't think has been made so far in either thread (BTW, good idea for mods to merge these 2 threads). The point is that Nationwide requires you to have a Flex account if you wish to save in an Internet-based savings account. You can deposit or withdraw such savings only via a Flex account. Naturally savings rates are better for internet-based savings than for pass-book or branch-based accounts. Nationwide's savings rates are generally poor (even in terrible times for savers) but some of their Internet based cash-deposit facilities are worth considering, especially fixed interest, fixed term bonds. But you must have a Flex account to open such a facility. So it is Nationwide that invites exactly the behaviour they seem to deprecate and which has led to punishment of the innocent (like us) who pay all our income into the Flex account every month.

Nationwide has had my current account banking (and my wife's) for about 3 years since First Direct made several bad mistakes involving our banking with them. I called my local NW branch this morning to verify the foreign charging position. BTW 5 minutes ago their website was still out of date on this. The conversation I had was interesting to say the least.

The "customer services operative" (CSO) confirmed the content of the Guardian article in every detail but not until he'd had a word with his superior who gave him permission to talk! (the CSO told me it's apparently the first day they are allowed to acknowledge these changes in discussion with customers - though he didn't know that when he answered my call). He also assured me that the debit card was still the most competitive for foreign transactions, so I pointed out that my local building society offers current account banking (with excellent Internet interface and functionality) and their VISA debit card operates worldwide and is commission free abroad, even outside Europe (with the unavoidable exception of outlet-levied charges). I said I would certainly move my current account to the local building society. This prompted the most extraordinary part of our conversation.

Having tried to persuade me that benefits such as the free one-person-only travel insurance was a compensating factor (well, not for me as I'm over 65!!!), he then suggested that the new policies are aimed at reducing the number of people currently holding flex accounts simply to access their savings. The NW's hope is apparently that these folk will remove their business. With all the money that NW saves by not losing on their Flex accounts it will be able to offer even more benefits to customers like me and in time these will more than compensate for the foreign transaction charges. There seemed to be no recognition that if the "rogue" customers close their "renegade", money-losing Flex accounts, they will also move their savings and investments elsewhere (they will have to - see my point above). Surely NW's thinking here is akin to that of lemmings rushing to the cliff edge!

Paul (who posts above) is clearly an example of someone who will remove his investments in this way.

I suggested to the CSO that at least the charges could have been made conditional so that only people who do not have at least (say) £750 per month inflow to a Flex account pay them. The CSO had no response to this. Even then, while it would not upset folk in my position it would not prevent the loss of related savings and investments; it would not stem the tide of the lemmings in fact.

I felt sorry for the hapless CSO who was courteous and helpful throughout the call. I think he may have known he was defending the indefensible. I'm sure he was simply giving me the party-line script. At my request he did agree to feed back my views and planned action via his superior. But he also said "it's going to happen anyway..." (this is a close paraphrase).

When I first banked with Nationwide you could call the branch on a local phone number, the call would be answered (quickly) by a pleasant human being who could deal with the query in most cases or would route you (also quickly) to someone who could. That local number eventually changed to an 0845 local-rate one but the call was still answered directly in the branch. This was the case until recently, but when I called today (on a changed 0845 number) I had to make my way through 3 levels of menus (containing many automated options to avoid human intervention) and eventually had to key in my branch sort code, account number and DOB. Just like any bank in fact. Not badly retrograde, I agree, but indicative of a trend, surely? The local building society that is about to become my bank still operates a blissfully simple and human contact system yet has well-designed Internet banking as well.

It's a shame that Nationwide, as the UK's largest building society represents the flagship of mutuality-based banking, saving, mortgages and loans, yet has lacklustre service performance and management-instituted policies that do loyal, profit-generating customers such disservice. I may well print out a copy of this post and pop it into the branch.

Roger (with apologies for a long post)


----------



## barryd

Well it was good while it lasted but if its going to cost a fiver to draw out £200 then its not a big deal really. You cant even get a beer in France for that!


----------



## pete4x4

I have to have a flex account as I have fixed term bonds and they need a flex account to pay the interest made at end of term into. They wouldn't allow me to pay it into an account other than Nationwides.

Dont think Nationwide have thought this thru.


----------



## roger-the-lodger

pete4x4 said:


> I have to have a flex account as I have fixed term bonds and they need a flex account to pay the interest made at end of term into. They wouldn't allow me to pay it into an account other than Nationwides.
> 
> Dont think Nationwide have thought this thru.


My point exactly!

Roger


----------



## teemyob

*Nationwide*

I have had a Nationwide Account for 30 years, always my main account.

Might have to have a re-think.

TM


----------



## bognormike

hello all

I've had a quick run through and merged the two running threads. There may be some overlap, but hopefully thing should make sense.

also edited the title to reflect the changed situation!

If anybody spots something that doesn't make sense time-wise etc please PM me rather than posting in the thread.


Mike

Mods team 8) :wink:


----------



## ambegayo

*Nationwide*

I agree with Roger, re the bank having regular payments from its 'bank customers' We were with Portman before it joined with Nationwide- and thought it would be good, but very upset about this latest and will be sending a letter (or visit) to our local branch.

Wendy


----------



## bognormike

One point that was made in the Guardian article was that it may now be cheaper to use a credit card than the debit card route for drawing cash. Basically if you choose a card that has a low-ish interest rate, draw cash on it and repay it by the due date (or earlier?) it works out cheaper. You pay interest on the cash "borrowed", but if you get a card that charges approx 12%apr that's about 1% for a month's credit.

here's a clip from the article:-

"So where do the Nationwide changes leave frequent travellers who need a card for use abroad? Martin Lewis, the man behind the website MoneySavingExpert.com, recommends using certain credit cards rather than debit cards, even if cash withdrawals incur immediate interest charges, as long as the cardholder pays off the balance in full at the end of the month. His top pick is the Halifax Clarity card, which has no foreign exchange fee anywhere in the world, so you get the best possible exchange rate at all times. However, you will be charged interest, at a relatively low 12.9%. He says this works out at around £1 per month in interest charges for every £100 withdrawn.

Other low-cost cards for use abroad that have no foreign exchange loading include the Saga Platinum card, which has a £2 flat fee for overseas ATMs, and Santander's Zero card, which has no fees but does carry a 27.9% interest charge on cash withdrawals. The Post Office's credit card also has no foreign exchange loading, but does charge 2.5% (minimum £3) for cash machine withdrawals, plus 24.1% interest.

Interestingly, paying even 27.9% interest on the cash withdrawn over a month is better value than taking the money out on a debit card, so long as you pay off the balance on return."

food for thought! :idea:


----------



## AndrewandShirley

We have written to complain (for all the good it will do) the complaints address is [email protected].

We have quoted the offending extract:
Low commission charge
The Society's new commission charge of 2% and £1 cash withdrawal fee are lower than any of those charged by other standard or free current accounts in the market. Unlike several other card providers, Nationwide does not also charge a fee when a customer makes a purchase abroad.

If you do not try, things will not change


----------



## kaacee

I totally agree with Roger, surely it is not too much to ask in this day and age for accounts that pay in the monthly minimum be exempt from these punitive charges.

If it goes ahead, I feel a transfer coming on, not just my flex account, but 2 ISA's and my wife's flex account and 3 fixed term bonds which has been said earlier, require you to have a flex account.

Keith


----------



## pete4x4

what about paying money into your Nationwide credit card so that you are in credit. If you then withdraw cash would you pay interest?


----------



## Patrick_Phillips

Have just spent a day trying to find a way around this hike but...
None of the main high street banks can get anywhere near the Euro rates NW are to adopt. Santander aren't too bad with both transaction charges and ATM set at £1.25 but they kill their offering by offering you just half the NW rate - 0.1% after that £150 they give you in the first year! NW do at least give you 0.2%. Their Savings account rate of 2.75% is that bad though...
Looked at prepayment cards. They make their money by giving a poor exchange rate when you transfer Stirling to the card.
The £200 worth of Euros from the ATM in France would cost you £8.44 with CaxtonFX, £7.74 with FairFX.
Travelex are interesting in that they say you can have the card in Euros and there are no charges for either ATM or purchase transactions. But, again, they make their profit on a poor exchange rate so the £200 will cost you £11.89. The interesting bit is that you can pay into a Euro card with Euros so you could avoid that cost. But how to get the best rate on the exchange?
The best exchange rate is still the - wait for it - Nationwide!!!
Give in?
Think I do. Pay up and smile...
Patrick


----------



## bognormike

pete4x4 said:


> what about paying money into your Nationwide credit card so that you are in credit. If you then withdraw cash would you pay interest?


I think so Pete - it's treated as a cash advance, and interest is charged from the day of the transaction - presumbaly up to the normal payment date?


----------



## roger-the-lodger

AndrewandShirley said:


> ...We have quoted the offending extract:
> Low commission charge
> The Society's new commission charge of 2% and £1 cash withdrawal fee are lower than any of those charged by other standard or free current accounts in the market. Unlike several other card providers, Nationwide does not also charge a fee when a customer makes a purchase abroad...


NW is wrong to state this! As I said in my original post, my local building society offers internet-based current account banking with a VISA Debit Card that incurs NO fees for foreign currency transactions or ATM cash withdrawals abroad; the card works globally in all ATMs.

In addition their current account banking has further advantages over that offered by Nationwide: it offers a small rate of interest on current account deposits (NW now offers none), its internet banking interfaces are simpler and far superior IMO and it does not require use of a gizmo to make external payments.

From some of the comments on here some people may think that although it is much smaller, a well-run local society such as this may actually be safer than NW too! Given the directions NW's management is taking their organisation and the degree of upset among customers, this view is becoming rapidly more plausible.

I would encourage others to look at smaller local building societies (make sure they are truly independent and not a post-acquisition branding exercise by a major bank or BS - as is C&G for example) - this may offer you a promising move from a badly run NW.

Roger


----------



## goldi

Morning all,


Why not open a euro account with one of the big european

banks suth as santander or creditagricole with all the cards etc.




norm


----------



## asprn

I've just looked at CitiBank, who offer Euro and Dollar accounts - see http://www.citibank.co.uk/personal/banking/international/eurocurrent.htm .

*How it works*
Simply open a Euro or a Dollar current account and transfer your spending money into that account. If you fund your account in a currency other than the one of your account these funds will be converted into the currency of the account, using Citibank reference exchange rates. You can then withdraw Euros and Dollars or spend them using your Visa Citibank Debit Card when overseas.
Spend easy, spend less

* Fee-free purchases abroad in US Dollars or Euros with your Citi Visa debit card
* Transaction fee-free cash withdrawals from Citi cash machines abroad in the currency of your account
* No monthly account fees
* Free optional US Dollar cheque book with the US Dollar Current Account
* Global access 24 hours a day, 365 days a year through CitiPhone Banking and Citibank online
* Citibank exchange rates apply to transfers across currencies

Looks good, although I've yet to delve into the very small print.

Dougie.


----------



## Phil42

Roger


> As I said in my original post, my local building society offers internet-based current account banking with a VISA Debit Card that incurs NO fees for foreign currency transactions or ATM cash withdrawals abroad; the card works globally in all ATMs.


O.K. Roger, are you going to identify your wonderful local society so we can all benefit?

Phil


----------



## inkey-2008

Roger who is the BS that you keep talking about but don't name.

Andy


----------



## rosie66

Patrick_Phillips said:


> Have just spent a day trying to find a way around this hike but...
> None of the main high street banks can get anywhere near the Euro rates NW are to adopt. Santander aren't too bad with both transaction charges and ATM set at £1.25 but they kill their offering by offering you just half the NW rate - 0.1% after that £150 they give you in the first year! NW do at least give you 0.2%. Their Savings account rate of 2.75% is that bad though...
> Looked at prepayment cards. They make their money by giving a poor exchange rate when you transfer Stirling to the card.
> The £200 worth of Euros from the ATM in France would cost you £8.44 with CaxtonFX, £7.74 with FairFX.
> Travelex are interesting in that they say you can have the card in Euros and there are no charges for either ATM or purchase transactions. But, again, they make their profit on a poor exchange rate so the £200 will cost you £11.89. The interesting bit is that you can pay into a Euro card with Euros so you could avoid that cost. But how to get the best rate on the exchange?
> The best exchange rate is still the - wait for it - Nationwide!!!
> Give in?
> Think I do. Pay up and smile...
> Patrick


Hi all
Been looking at all you have to say on this subject as we, too, have had many years at Nationwide with ALL our accounts. Do agree that they SHOULD leave us alone on this one because a) we've been so many years with them and b) they know we spend a great deal of time abroad. However, agree that they give a good % on their internet savings and certainly DO give a great exchange rate which probably takes the sting out of a sad story. Actually we have started carrying more euro cash - see http://www.crowncurrencyexchange.com/index.php
These people are really good, even sending your euros free by special delivery. Their current exchange rate is approx. 1.20 (more if you order longer ahead) and the best way to 'carry the cash' is to dot it around everywhere and have some in a small safe?
If we take a year off shortly then we may open a spanish bank account also. Used to have a french one until everything got too expensive over there. Only problem with that, of course, is that most european banks charge a fair old bit for even using a debit card per annum! Think Credit Agricole used to charge us around £35 p.a. for a debit card! 8O
Rosie63


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Phil42 said:


> O.K. Roger, are you going to identify your wonderful local society so we can all benefit?
> 
> Phil


Yes of course! But the reason I didn't name it before is that it is a local building society, so sadly you can't all benefit.

It is the *Cumberland Building Society *based in and serving Cumbria with some branches also in Northumberland and Lancashire.

Like most local building societies membership is in effect restricted to people living in the catchment area.

That's the only reason I hadn't thought to name it before. My point is that there may be similar smaller and local societies in other areas offering such benefits - it's worth looking anyway.

By all means take advantage of deals offered by the larger players even if they may be short-term hooks. But realise that these days you're swimming in shark-infested waters. That metaphor may not yet apply to Nationwide but they do seem to be moving in a similar direction.

Roger


----------



## midgeteler

goldi said:


> Morning all,
> 
> Why not open a euro account with one of the big european
> 
> banks suth as santander or creditagricole with all the cards etc.
> 
> norm


I have but it still has the expensive requirement to keep it loaded.
Have you seen the exchange rate they give you?
Swings and roundabouts


----------



## Telbell

> The £200 worth of Euros from the ATM in France would cost you £8.44 with CaxtonFX,


Not so. Caxton have zero charges on transactions for the Euro Card in Euroland, whether it's for purchases or ATM cash machines


----------



## bozzer

Following my message of complaint to NW on Sunday

Had a call this morning re. changes. Very pleasant lady who said she was disappointed I was annoyed members had not been told before press, her comment was NW cannot post to all members before press get hold of this. I did point out that the message at the start of internet banking would have alerted members who are using the internet banking regularly. She said she would take this message to her manager.

She pointed out
NW credit card could still be used at 0%
Insurance was for up to 75 with current members and included spouse.
There would also be other benefits and a letter will be sent out.

Awaiting letter then we'll decide what to do.

Jan


----------



## ed786

Nationwide had their AGM on the 22nd July as most of the complainants should know as all members (customers) were sent voting forms. I decided not to vote but did look at the paperwork and noted the high salaries that The Board pay themselves although I recall that the Chief Executive did refuse his high bonus. The total remuneration for The Board (Executive members and non-executive) had increased compared with the previous year. This announcement re charges for foreign cash withdrawals would not have been announced before the AGM as this could have caused an embarassing "revolt" by many members.

Ed


----------



## Stanner

Telbell said:


> The £200 worth of Euros from the ATM in France would cost you £8.44 with CaxtonFX,
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. Caxton have zero charges on transactions for the Euro Card in Euroland, whether it's for purchases or ATM cash machines
Click to expand...

Not if the exchange rate is poor.


----------



## barryd

I agree. It would seem to me that its all about the exchange rate. If a card offers free ATM withdrawls or transactions overseas but then gives you a crappy rate EG 1.05 Euros to the pound but then Nationwide charge you 2% plus a £1 for a withdrawl but then give you 1.20 exchange rate your better off paying the charge.

Its like the travel agents making out our exchange rates are commision free like they are doing you a big favour. All they do is give you a rubbish exchange rate and make their money there.

Its a shame but until someone tells be there is a debit card better than the NW Ill just stick with it and put up with the charge.


----------



## TR5

barryd said:


> I agree. It would seem to me that its all about the exchange rate. If a card offers free ATM withdrawls or transactions overseas but then gives you a crappy rate EG 1.05 Euros to the pound but then Nationwide charge you 2% plus a £1 for a withdrawl but then give you 1.20 exchange rate your better off paying the charge.
> 
> Its like the travel agents making out our exchange rates are commision free like they are doing you a big favour. All they do is give you a rubbish exchange rate and make their money there.
> 
> Its a shame but until someone tells be there is a debit card better than the NW Ill just stick with it and put up with the charge.


Several are quoting a 2% charge plus a £1 fee!

I visited a Nationwide branch today and asked for the lowdown on the charges.
I was told that the fee is being imposed by Visa, and is 1% for all overseas transactions - not 2% + £1.
I was also told that the fee for using the debit card would not apply in the UK, only on overseas withdrawals.
So, if this is true, not so bad given the exchange rate provided by NW.


----------



## Hobbyfan

TR5 said:


> I visited a Nationwide branch today and asked for the lowdown on the charges.
> I was told that the fee is being imposed by Visa, and is 1% for all overseas transactions - not 2% + £1.


This is not the case. The 1% fee currently applies to cash withdrawals in most countries outside of the Euro zone.

From November 1st the commission on cash withdrawals abroad will be 2% plus £1.00 ATM charge per withdrawal.

On purchases with the debit card there will just be the 2% commission.

The decision to impose these charges has nothing whatsoever to do with Visa and is Nationwide's alone. They do not have to impose these charges but have been forced into doing so because they are losing money because of all the freeloaders who've opened a Flex Account and just cherry-picked the foreign transactions facility.

The new charges are explained quite clearly on Nationwide's website.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/flexaccount-changes.htm


----------



## barryd

I loved being called a Freeloader. Its such a great word! (im not joking it is)

At the end of the day should we have thought. Oooh thats a good deal but perhaps I had better not sign up in case they realise its too good a deal and start charging more thus buggering up the deal for long term NW account holders?

Its a bit like seeing something in a shop that you want that is half the price of everywhere else and then not buying it in case they cotton on and put the price up for everyone else!


----------



## TR5

Yes, I can see that now!

I have just looked on the Nationwide "changes of terms" for the FlexAccount, and indeed to withdraw £100 abroad will cost 3% in effect, (2% + £1).

It is obvious that the "horse's mouth" is a liar, or has been told to try and hoodwink customer's into thinking it is only going to cost them 1%.

I have printed out the section of the terms, and will return to NW tomorrow.


----------



## Suenliam

Interesting bit about the Cumberland BS. We have a branch here in Dumfries. I really don't want to be bothered about changing our 3 (!) accounts but the only reason we went to the Nationwide was for the benefits of using the card abroad. I make no apology for this as the NW has my money, limited though it may be in global financial terms, for the full year and I only need to make use of their administration services for very few transactions. It is not only by charging interest that banks/BSs make money they also invest our deposited money.

Sue


----------



## Hobbyfan

TR5 said:


> It is obvious that the "horse's mouth" is a liar, or has been told to try and hoodwink customer's into thinking it is only going to cost them 1%.


I wouldn't be too hard on whoever it was and I don't think for a minute that he or she lied. There is absolutely no point or sense in lying and trying to hoodwink customers, as it will only rebound on you eventually.

It's more than likely that they simply weren't aware of the changes and it looks as though they may have looked up the current terms.

Staff at banks and building societies have a bewildering number of accounts, mortgage types, ISAs, investments etc. etc. to know about and it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to know everything about everything.

Another factor is that many staff nowadays are part-timers and they usually take a little longer to get up to speed on the latest developments.

Let's all try to be nicer to and a little more understanding to the people that we deal with. Most of them are doing their best.


----------



## H1-GBV

We opened a Santander current account today (switching from Nationwide) - £100 bonus + 5% interest on amounts upto £2500! That should pay quite a few ATM withdrawals, but these are FREE from Santander machines in Spain (I haven't checked that in writing, but it seems reasonable).

In addition, as new customers we can get *6%* interest [cf 4% for existing customers - still a market leader] on a Super Fixed Rate Monthly Saver (Min = £20, max = £250), 3.2% in an ISA and a 1 year Tracker Bond offering (3.2% or base rate +2.5%), whichever is the higher. We shall be taking advantage of all of those  , as they surpass anything else I can find, apart from some odd sounding bank on moneysavingexpert!

I have no interest (pun intended) in Santander, other than as a potential source of finance - anyone following in my footsteps does so at their own risk.

Gordon

PS We'll use the Nationwide card until November, just keeping as little as we need in what was our main current account.


----------



## rainbowwarrier

take no notice about nationwide starting to charge for transactions while abroad.the only time there is a charge is if you are outside an eu country.we have traveled through germany,austria.venice.italy and greece this year with no problems using cash machines.hope this will help you.regards rainbow warrier


----------



## bozzer

rainbowwarrior
The changes are from Nov.1st
Jan


----------



## Hobbyfan

rainbowwarrier said:


> take no notice about nationwide starting to charge for transactions while abroad.the only time there is a charge is if you are outside an eu country.we have traveled through germany,austria.venice.italy and greece this year with no problems using cash machines.hope this will help you.regards rainbow warrier


You've obviously not read much of this thread!


----------



## roger-the-lodger

barryd said:


> I agree. It would seem to me that its all about the exchange rate.  If a card offers free ATM withdrawls or transactions overseas but then gives you a crappy rate EG 1.05 Euros to the pound but then Nationwide charge you 2% plus a £1 for a withdrawl but then give you 1.20 exchange rate your better off paying the charge.


This is true of course. But the Nationwide's actions and policies have significance beyond the headline factors such as rates and charges. They show every sign of an organisation with confused business strategy, muddled thinking and panic reactions to the consequences of previously unwise decisions. Loyal and profit-generating customers get forgotten and unfairly punished as a result and will take their revenge, resulting in damage to the Society itself.

I am switching for a variety of reasons, several of which have nothing to do with foreign currency transaction costs but which indicate this management confusion worsened by fundamental disconnection with customers and the market. One very valid reason for abandoning them is that such policies may lead to a downward spiral in their fortunes.

I think I am fortunate in having a local BS that is well-managed and strikes a sensible balance between ROI and risk in its own investment policies. I initiated the switch of my current account today. My investment choices will take a similar route in due course.

BTW I did check that CBS' exchange rates are suitably competitive and they are! Together with many other benefits!

Roger


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

Here are Martin Lewis's thoughts

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...erseas-spending-for-current-account-customers

and my view is simple. Leave the account open at Nationwide with 10p in it, and pay in 10p per month. Ask for monthly statements etc.

Russell


----------



## Hobbyfan

*Re: Nationwide*



Rapide561 said:


> and my view is simple. Leave the account open at Nationwide with 10p in it, and pay in 10p per month. Ask for monthly statements etc.
> 
> Russell


What a vindictive attitude. Nationwide has changed its terms. If you don't like them, move to another bank or BS.

All this has come about because of the actions of people who opened a Nationwide account and used it just for foreign travel. Now in a fit of pique at least one person seems to be taking it to another level by deliberately trying to make Nationwide lose even more money on his account.

I switched to NW and use the account properly as my main current account, and I feel peeved that it's changed its terms. However Nationwide is obliged to run its business efficiently and if it's losing a fortune because of opportunists cherry-picking its best feature then it has to do something about it.

I'm not happy and will look at alternative banks but I will not be punishing Nationwide and by definition, its remaining customers, by taking a peevish action which will deliberately make it lose even more money on my account.


----------



## peedee

I hope once it has ditched the spongers, it might re-introduce the perk in some way, I very much doubt it though. 

peedee


----------



## seanoo

hi all, i wouldnt blame anyone taking advantage of an offered service that gives good value in a world where good value is getting harder to find. maybe nw should have thought it through a bit more and had some terms in the first place. all the best sean


----------



## Stanner

seanoo said:


> hi all, i wouldnt blame anyone taking advantage of an offered service that gives good value in a world where good value is getting harder to find. maybe nw should have thought it through a bit more and had some terms in the first place. all the best sean


Just what I told N/Wide yesterday when I paid a cheque in.

"Leave the current arrangements in place, but make charges for anyone who doesn't pay in £XXX per month" - which (as I read it) is exactly what the Cumberland BS do, as you cannot get a debit card account there (that can be used abroad) without giving them a certain throughput of cash.

I'm thinking of opening an internet account with CBS and paying the required amount in by standing order with another standing order transferring it straight back to N/Wide the next day - I wonder how long I could get away with that?:lol:


----------



## Telbell

As Martyn Lewis says: 
"Nationwide has bitched about other banks levying, yet from November, it's doing it too."

Surely Nationwide's financial "experts" must have realised that the "savvy" travellers would use them for their own purposes....and why shouldn't they? (the travellers). Isn't that what any astute person with some financial "nous" should do?

If NW have lost money through people doing just that it's their own fault-they should have thought it through to start with so that the perceived "loopholes" weren't there in the first place.


----------



## Hobbyfan

Telbell said:


> As Martyn Lewis says:
> Surely Nationwide's financial "experts" must have realised that the "savvy" travellers would use them for their own purposes....and why shouldn't they? (the travellers). Isn't that what any astute person with some financial "nous" should do?


Where Nationwide went wrong in my opinion, is in not realising the power of the Internet. It offered a new current account, which had, as one of its features, this foreign-travel perk.

It may well have calculated that a few people would cynically exploit the account and not really use it as a current account should be used, but failed to realise the growing influence of sites like this.

Because of the web and similar forums there was an explosion in the number of people who decided that they'd sign up and not use it as a normal current account.

Who can blame NW when two thirds of the users of a Flex Account simply put in a few bob before they go on holiday and then don't use it for another six months?

Whilst I'm disappointed in Nationwide, as I believe that it should restructure its terms to eliminate the spongers, my main annoyance is with those whose selfish attitudes has forced Nationwide into revisiting its policy vis a vis the foreign-travel perk.

Finally, even people with 'financial nous' ought to have some 'financial morality'.


----------



## Telbell

> t may well have calculated that a few people would cynically exploit the account and not really use it as a current account should be used, but failed to realise the growing influence of sites like this.


Completely disagree Hobbyfan. Nothing to do with "cynicism" or "immorality"

If an institution introduces some "scheme" and people take advantage of it, its within the rules and any conditions, what's the problem?

And sites such as Lewis's MSE exist primarily to draw attention of the public to such schemes, and point out ways in which punters can legally take advantage.

As has been said, in these times of "austerity" and 1% Savings Rates, anyone with any sense, and the know-how, would be wise to take such advantage.


----------



## seanoo

ha ha! 'financial morality' just like the banks themselves eh? :?


----------



## Hobbyfan

seanoo said:


> ha ha! 'financial morality' just like the banks themselves eh? :?


You're right of course, let's all get down in the gutter and scrape whatever we can for ourselves and bugger anyone else.


----------



## seanoo

my point exactly , thanks


----------



## StephandJohn

Our Nationwide branch has confirmed to us that the 2% plus £1 transaction charge will start in November. Having and using a current account as your main banking account doesn't make any difference.
Martin Lewis's money market site says that Halifax Clarity credit card is the best alternative option as long as you pay it off totally every month. You'll still get charged but it's still the cheapest way at the moment.


----------



## Hobbyfan

Telbell said:


> Completely disagree Hobbyfan. Nothing to do with "cynicism" or "immorality"
> 
> If an institution introduces some "scheme" and people take advantage of it, its within the rules and any conditions, what's the problem?


Then we'll never agree because our views on morality are obviously poles apart! Nationwide offered this account as a current account and we all know what that is. People used it as a deposit account by paying in a few pounds and the drawing it out for their holidays before leaving the account dormant again.

Of course it was within the rules, but there's a difference between the rules of an arrangement and the true spirit of it. If you can't see that then I truly feel sorry for and I worry about the future of my country when so many of its citizens seem to have lost any real moral compass.


----------



## peedee

I just hate paying to withdraw my own money, I won't even use cash points that charge in the UK. 

peedee


----------



## Telbell

"Rules of Arrangement" ?
"True Spirit"

SO I presume that you are dead against the seeking out and use of Loopholes in order to get the best deal?

Do you feel that is "immoral"?

The only reason that Loopholes exist is that those who plan and introduce such schemes don't do their homework properly.

The MSE blurb advertises "Get MoneySavingExpert's email full of guides, deals & loopholes "

Would be interesting to establish what Martyn Lewis's views are on your moral stance

:lol:


----------



## tattytony

peedee said:


> I just hate paying to withdraw my own money, I won't even use cash points that charge in the UK.
> 
> peedee


I totally agree and will not pay to withdraw, it would have to be an emergency if I did :roll:

I have an appointment to change my accounts from NW on Saturday to Santander as we have a Mortgage with them we can have the Zero card and thats free according to them 8)


----------



## boringfrog

*Must be talking about me then*



> spongers





> freeloaders





> Selfish


I was advised to open a Flex account to use when we travel abroad as it saved you money, no one ever said you must use it as your current account and put regular money in (the only wage me and SHMBO gets is from house rental). I can think of another way to save £10 a year aswell...........


----------



## bozzer

Steph

You will still be able to use Nationwide Credit Card free in Europe and 1% worldwide. I was told this by the lady from NW who rang yesterday and the Message she sent me via my internet account yesterday. I was also told we would be receiving letters around 9th August. Apparently all the information is on the NW site under current account and from 2nd August.

We're waiting until the dust dies and we get all the information before we make a decision. 

Jan


----------



## Melly

We have a flex account and only had it because of these perks being advertised.
It is purely for when we go abroad and I have no wish to move my other account from where it is.
During the last 3 months while at home and lying dormant it has had over £3000 in it which is probably more than a lot of so called full account holders.
I have no loyalty to any bank or building society as I found out with Natwest a good few years ago - You are just a number to them.
So get what you can out of them and ditch them if it changes, is my motto.


----------



## Hobbyfan

It would appear that I'm on a different moral planet than many people today and there's no point in me continuing this debate but I'll leave with one other example.

What I'm now going describe was in fact recommended by one man on another forum.

Don't bother paying £10.00 to join a forum. Sign up and when you've used your five or ten free posts, or whatever it is, get a new free Hotmail/GMail address and sign up again with a different name and e-mail address.

You can even get a free I.P. changer which will disguise your real I.P.

Now that's not breaking any laws and is in my mind the sort of behaviour encouraged by the likes of Martin Lewis i.e. find a loophole and if it saves you a few bob, exploit it.

Now I think that it's immoral. It costs a lot to run this forum and that's why there's a modest charge. 

It would appear though that many people would find this acceptable, as it's simply exploiting a loophole, but I don't. 

And I know that those same people have paid their ten pounds but for some of them I suspect that it's simply because they haven't seen this cunning way of saving money!

It's been great fun watching some of trying to convince yourselves that your actions are reasonable are are not against the spirit of the Flex Account, but many of us aren't fooled!


----------



## javea

Just had a text from Caxton offering Euros at 1.1840 so have bought some.


----------



## bognormike

Hobbyfan said:


> It would appear that I'm on a different moral planet than many people today and there's no point in me continuing this debate but I'll leave with one other example.
> 
> What I'm now going describe was in fact recommended by one man on another forum.
> 
> Don't bother paying £10.00 to join a forum. Sign up and when you've used your five or ten free posts, or whatever it is, get a new free Hotmail/GMail address and sign up again with a different name and e-mail address.
> 
> You can even get a free I.P. changer which will disguise your real I.P.
> 
> Now that's not breaking any laws and is in my mind the sort of behaviour encouraged by the likes of Martin Lewis i.e. find a loophole and if it saves you a few bob, exploit it.
> 
> Now I think that it's immoral. It costs a lot to run this forum and that's why there's a modest charge.
> 
> It would appear though that many people would find this acceptable, as it's simply exploiting a loophole, but I don't.
> 
> And I know that those same people have paid their ten pounds but for some of them I suspect that it's simply because they haven't seen this cunning way of saving money!
> 
> It's been great fun watching some of trying to convince yourselves that your actions are reasonable are are not against the spirit of the Flex Account, but many of us aren't fooled!


ah, but the Nationwide Flex account foreign cash account availability was there for all to use, and I must admit we have used it - now they have withdrawn the service we'll go elsewhere. I don't see why I should pay more than the odds for something, so we'll shop around.

and with my Mods hat on, the use of multiple accounts on here IS against the rules:-

"Duplicate Accounts
Any user found to be posting under dual or more aliases will have the duplicate accounts suspended and will be given a warning. If any such account is used in an attempt to defraud or mislead members or staff, the user will be suspended.

The reasoning behind this is to ensure no duplicity is taking place and to ensure no confusion is caused to other members. The reasons behind creating duplicate accounts are primarily to circumvent the restrictions placed upon a non subscriber or in order to attack other members under an alias."

obviously it CAN be done, but we get used to peoples' styles and can spot them. But you only get limited capabilities as a non-subscriber, so it wouldn't be the same :roll: 8) :wink:


----------



## Telbell

> Don't bother paying £10.00 to join a forum. Sign up and when you've used your five or ten free posts, or whatever it is, get a new free Hotmail/GMail address and sign up again with a different name and e-mail address.


Now I'm not absolutely sure about this but I do believe that Nuke has made it clear that if this happens they would indeed be "kicked off" (perhaps someone can clarify?)

If that is the case then the scenarios can hardly be compared as I don't think NW made it clear that if people merely use the account for travel purposes their account would be closed.

ediT:just seen the next post from BM so Hobbyfan your comparisons are certainly not valid.

Quote: It's been great fun watching some of trying to convince yourselves that your actions are reasonable are are not against the spirit of the Flex Account, but many of us aren't fooled! Quote

Re the above: ....and remember we are all just giving our opinions- neither side justifies proclaiming that we are on a higher moral planet because of our views :wink:


----------



## barryd

Its simple. Trying to get a duplicate account on FACTS is against the rules. Having a nationwide account and just using it when on holiday is not. There is no comparison whatsoever.

So presumably you can just apply for the NW credit card if your an account holder and the same old rules apply? I presume they hope then that you wont pay it off in time and incurr charges? I hate credit cards and my worry would be if your away for a couple of months you may well forget or find it hard to transfer money from abroad.


----------



## Hobbyfan

I think that many of you are simply missing my point, which was, that there are many people who would think it acceptable to re-register for a forum in order to save paying, despite what the rules in the small print say.

I for one have never seen that rule and would imagine that most of us haven't.

Indeed, one guy on another forum broadcast it as a good way of staying on Motorhome Fun, after it became a pay site.

My entire point was that some people don't care about the ethics of something, as long as they benefit!


----------



## erneboy

I think we understood what you were saying. It's just that we don't see any connection between legitimate holders of a building society cash card and being dishonest, Alan.


----------



## Hobbyfan

erneboy said:


> I think we understood what you were saying. It's just that we don't see any connection between legitimate holders of a building society cash card and being dishonest, Alan.


Simple, they don't even know that they're being dishonest!

I repeat - I wasn't aware of that rule because like most people who visit this forum, I haven't pored over the small print!

I thought it clear that my entire point is that many people are happy to ignore the ethics of their actions, as long as they benefit.

They would be happy to ignore the fact that it's not really fair to keep using the forum by applying a new user name.

I was making a general point about the attitude of many people today, a point exemplified I think by the Nationwide situation.

I really must keep away from this thread now - we're just covering lots of old ground!


----------



## raynipper

*Re: Must be talking about me then*



boringfrog said:


> spongers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freeloaders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Selfish
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was advised to open a Flex account to use when we travel abroad as it saved you money, no one ever said you must use it as your current account and put regular money in (the only wage me and SHMBO gets is from house rental). I can think of another way to save £10 a year aswell...........
Click to expand...

The Post Office actively encouraged me to open their Credit Card account with no overseas charges to the exchange rate of the day.
I asked the lady at the counter if she was on commission? She said sort of as she does get a bonus the more people take up their services.

But I personally don't think it's unethical to cast around for the best deal. I always get two or three estimates for work, purchases or services. Thats just capitalism and competition. You can't win em all.
As we get squeezed more and more in todays financial climate, we look to more ways not to pay more than is necessary or put another way not 'waste' money.

When my income dropped from £1000 a week to just £78 it forces you to be more frugal and selective. I get a certain pleasure in being able to afford things unattainable at the RRP. So discounts, clearance or bargain basements catch my eye now.

Ray.


----------



## barryd

Would someone really go to the bother to keep creating duplicate free accounts just to avoid paying a tenner for facts? Incredible. Best £10 I ever spent! I think culprits should be publicly flogged and the pictures posted on here in a hall of shame!


----------



## erneboy

Hobbyfan said, "I was making a general point about the attitude of many people today, a point exemplified I think by the Nationwide situation. "

Yes I know, and I was making the point that acting in a duplicitous way to keep posting on a forum and avoiding paying by hiding ones true identity bore no resemblance at all to holding a building society cash card in an open, honest and above board way, Alan.


----------



## baldlygo

*Questions for Hobbyfan*

I'm sure I've read that people who pay Credit Cards off regularly each month are not good business for CC companies.

*Hobbyfan* - do you believe those of us who do this are morally corrupt :?: If you had a credit card would you pay less each month so as to not exploit the worse off :?:

I intend to keep my Nationwide Flex account since, even after 1st Nov. their charges for currency exchange will probably still be good value.

I have read that some banks are offering cash insentives to open an account with them. Where is this money coming from :?: Are you suggesting that we should feel guilty that we might be grabbing the money paid in by existing account holders if we switch :?:

Paul


----------



## jiwawa

Re the free insurance - I had a look and the maximum trip is 31 days. I didn't see any facility for extending this. 

So it probably wouldn't suit a lot of people on here.


----------



## Telbell

Hobbyfan
Have a look at Raynipper's Post.

Do you really believe he's being unethical and/or immoral :? :?


----------



## tonyt

Earlier on in this thread I posed the following:

To draw cash from a debit card at an atm one has to have funds in that account to cover the amount drawn.

If, instead of having those funds in the debit account you had them in a credit card account, is it not still possible to avoid paying a fee?

Looking briefly at the Santander Zero and Halifax Clarity, they appear to offer no fee, no commission on cash withdrawals in Europe and beyond. If the account was in credit there would be no cost at all?

There are a few requirements to hold the cards but they are not over stringent.

Or, am I missing something?


----------



## StephandJohn

Sounds good. Are we missing anything?


----------



## Telbell

Not sure how easy-or possible- it is to load such cards with Euros. Worth an enquiry with, in my case, Santander.

Though as I've said before the last time I used my Zero card I was getting a 1.27 Rate, and of course the balance was paid to avoid interest


----------



## tonyt

Telbell said:


> Not sure how easy-or possible- it is to load such cards with Euros. Worth an enquiry with, in my case, Santander.
> 
> Though as I've said before the last time I used my Zero card I was getting a 1.27 Rate, and of course the balance was paid to avoid interest


No, load them with sterling - same as you do with a debit card.


----------



## Zozzer

I feel annoyed that the Free Insurance is only available those who deposit £750 month into a Flex Account or the account holder is under 18 years hold.

What about all those customers who have large cash savings of multiple thousands of pounds in the Nationwide Flex Plus Savings account. Does all that count for NOTHING.

If the anger we see in the motorhome touring world is replicated across the country when holiday makers jet off to the sun, then 
WITH LUCK, all this will backfire on the Nationwide and they will loose many more customers than they imagined they would.


----------



## Stanner

Zozzer said:


> If the anger we see in the motorhome touring world is replicated across the country when holiday makers jet off to the sun, then
> WITH LUCK, all this will backfire on the Nationwide and they will loose many more customers than they imagined they would.


Then you all need to do as I did.

When I was in the branch I told them I was unhappy about the changes and that they weren't as "good value" as was being said.

I then went home and did the same via the message facility on the website.

If you feel strongly about it you have to let them know it.


----------



## bozzer

Stanner

I did exactly the same and within 48 hrs had a phone call and reply to message summarising our phone call. My points were then sent to a senior manager.

Jan


----------



## lalala

Sitting in the summerhouse in Denmark watching a storm sweep in from the sea and across the beach. My original post was because we had actually been told of the charges when we discussed with Nationwide making a change to our Flexaccount. Remember it is not only when withdrawing money from an ATM that there will be a charge, it will be on all purchases.
I agree that a lot depends on the rate of exchange given by whichever bank operates the card you use.
However it is not in my opinion at all immoral to open and operate an account within the terms offered by the operator. 
Interesting to read all the posts,
Lala


----------



## sallytrafic

I operated my NW account in the way that they seem to now object to. As Spring approached I would transfer money into it to the tune of £1000 or so, more if I knew at that stage I was going abroad. At the end of the season I wouldn't empty it. Looking back most years its had over £500 in it in December. So as the interest has been zero they have done very well out of me.

I have also through MHF and similar extolled the virtues of a NW account.

Now they have taken over Portman so I am a major investor with them.

I'm the sort of customer that they will loose.


----------



## Rapide561

*Nationwide*

Hi

I opened my Nationwide Flex account in early 2006. It was my primary current account and Nationwide handled the account transfer process from my previous bank - Cahoot. Nationwide promised to pay £50 if they cocked it up - guess what - they paid me £50.00. Prior to opening the Flex account, my Nationwide history dates back to 1998.

Now I have been a reasonable customer, but Nationwide do not make money out of me. I do not have any loans, or a mortgage or owe them a penny on overdraft.

I had an instant acceess savings account the Ntionwide - online - and that account today pays 0.45% gross interest. Needless to say there is only £1 in it. The Tesco online instant account is paying me 3% - so over six times the interest amount.

Next up - Nationwide stopped paying credit interest on the Flex Account - the Halifax "reward" me with £5 per month. Plus another £5 for the Clarity credit card. So that's £120 per year - enough diesel to get me a third of the way to Lake Garda - for doing nothing except complying with their terms and conditions of the account.

I used to work in Birmingham - and the queue at the local Nationwide branch often stretched outside the doors. I complained in writing about this stating that a key city branch should not have a dozen sales people and yet only three windows offering service. I quoted it was too much about "sell sell sell" and not "serve serve serve".

The ATM at the Ashby branch has been out of service more than it is in service.

Nationwide received more complaints from me as they were so so slow to introduce the Faster Payments system. The payment method was available to NEW customers, but not us long standing ones.

Next up, all "01" telephone numbers for Nationwide branches disappear and are replaced with "08" numbers. I refuse to use such numbers and so phone the Nationwide head office on 01793 456789 and ask to be put through to another branch.

The only reason in the end I retained the account was for the fee free ATM overseas. Now that has gone, goodbye Nationwide.

Oh, and try to do anything unusual, like pay a foreign currency cheque in and most of the staff I have had handle this transaction had no idea what to do. I felt I had more knowledge of the cheque negotiation process than they did, so I took my cheques elsewhere.

I am not anti Nationwide - in fact there are threads on this forum that state I should work in the PR department, but something has changed. I have not changed the manner in which my account is conducted, I paid in my salary, had direct debits and so on, but felt the service was getting worse and worse.

Proud to be different - yes - but how is the Nationwide different? And different to whom?

And as for the mutuals that offer service only to customers in a certain geographical area - well my view is that this type of "discrimination" stinks. If for example a Northern based society had to be bailed out by the FSCS, it must be noted that ALL FSCS members pick up the tab in the end. The costs of being in the scheme is effectively paid for by, erm.........the customer!

For what it is worth, I was in the Yorkshire Building Society earlier today, closing a two year bond that was maturing. The counter staff were DETERMINED to sell me a stock-ex related bond. I declined this. I was then faced with more bamboozling and sales patter. I pointed out that the best rate they could offer me was worse than ANYTHING Tesco Bank could offer, and until the YBS bucked up their ideas, they would not be seeing my custom. Yes, who knows what Tesco Bank will do with rates in the future, but for now, I vote with my feet!

Russell


----------



## erneboy

We have contacted them too. I don't expect it will change their minds.

As Frank pointed out they have the use of our funds and what we get in return is the ability to draw some back without being charged for doing so. If that isn't a fair deal both ways then I don't know what is. Why would I allow someone to hold my funds and have the use of them and then pay them for returning my money, Alan.


----------



## Telbell

> No, load them with sterling - same as you do with a debit card.


Is there any point in that though? I might just as well not credit it with anything and just use is as a normal Credit Card.....and get the benefit of 1 1.238 exchange rate and 56-ish days of free credit?


----------



## tonyt

Telbell said:


> No, load them with sterling - same as you do with a debit card.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any point in that though? I might just as well not credit it with anything and just use is as a normal Credit Card.....and get the benefit of 1 1.238 exchange rate and 56-ish days of free credit?
Click to expand...

Ah, I hadn't read the terms in much detail - I didn't think there would be an interest free period on cash withdrawals, only purchases.
That sounds even better - maybe even better than the NW card!


----------



## erneboy

My understanding is that even if your credit card account is in credit you will still pay a fee for cash withdrawals. Would this be less than the proposed Nationwide charge, Alan.


----------



## Rapide561

*Fees*

Hi

As far as I am aware, credit cards charge the ATM/cash handling fee if you have a credit balance. Interest however cannot be charged as you would not owe them money.

Russell


----------



## tonyt

erneboy said:


> My understanding is that even if your credit card account is in credit you will still pay a fee for cash withdrawals. Would this be less than the proposed Nationwide charge, Alan.


Well this is from the Santander site this morning - Zero Card:

"0% foreign exchange fee

You pay 0% on all your foreign exchange transactions. That means when you're abroad the price you see is the price you pay.

0% cash advance fee3

You pay 0% in cash advance fees when you withdraw cash from an ATM in the UK or abroad. Typically other credit cards charge you 2.75%

Typical 18.9% APR (variable)"

methinks this needs some further investigation


----------



## hblewett

I have the zero card, and it does what it says on the tin. Only problem is that, unlike Nationwide, they want you to tell them where you are going and when, which is a bit of a nuisance. Also they can only cope with the idea of visiting a maximum of two countries at a time. 

Of course, if you draw money, they may not charge you for drawing it, but you will pay the usual swingeing rate of interest for 'borrowing' it 

But well worth having - I thought as a back-up, but its now been promoted.


----------



## tonyt

hblewett said:


> ......................
> 
> Of course, if you draw money, they may not charge you for drawing it, but you will pay the usual swingeing rate of interest for 'borrowing' it....................


I think that's the point I was trying to make earlier - if you had your Zero Card in credit, as you would your NW Flex, at the time of withdrawing the cash, surely there would be no borrowing and therefore no charge?


----------



## Telbell

> methinks this needs some further investigation Smile


None really needed. It's clear and it works. But note, as has been said, although there's no ATM fee , interest is charged from the day you withdraw the cash(as per hblewett's comment)

My "strategy" has been a combination of:
a)Crown Currency-forward purchase of cash (averaged 1.195 on trips this year)
b)Caxton loaded EuroCard(Average 1.17-just loaded at 1.184)
c)Santander Zero Credit Card which seems to give a decent exchange rate- as I said it was 1.237 on my last statement.

"Simples" :wink:

And with the above there's no point in crediting the Zero Card-may as well have the interest-free days of around 55/56 before paying it off.

PS- and I've never told Santander where I'm going and when-never occurred to me- and there''s been no problem using it.


----------



## inkey-2008

I have written to Nationwide complaining about the change. They replied that it was not fair to members who did not travel so they are changing it to travel insurance to the same people.

I have suggested to them that you are given the choice of free EU banking or travel insurance.

If everybody wrote to them they might listen

Andy


----------



## StephandJohn

We have written as well and asked them why they do not exclude people with their main income going into the account.


----------



## tattytony

We have moved from NW to Santander on Saturday easy and £100 to switch 8)


----------



## inkey-2008

But you need to pay in above a set amount to qualify per month and we do not have a regular income to qualify.

Andy


----------



## Hobbyfan

tattytony said:


> We have moved from NW to Santander on Saturday easy and £100 to switch 8)


I can't argue that that isn't a good deal and it's clever of Santander to bribe customers with a golden hello but I wonder if it isn't a sign of desperation.

I banked with Alliance and Leicester and the service went so far downhill that I have now moved my current account. In fact Santander's satisfaction rating has dropped considerably over the last year.

If I can bore you with one example. I had a savings bond with A & L in which I had, by any standards, a large sum. It was a fixed interest rate until a couple of weeks ago, when it dropped to next to nothing. Of course the banks hope that you'll forget this and leave the money there.

However, I had it diarised and nearly a fortnight ago I moved the money and asked them to close the account, as this was the only way that I could get the interest, as it wasn't due to be paid until October.

Despite the fact that it was an Internet account, they refused to let me close it on-line and insisted that I go to my nearest branch. So off I traipse only to be told that this information is wrong and I can only close it by telephone.

So back I go to another 20 minute phone call and eventually they agree that it can be closed over the phone but they cannot simply transfer the interest to my current account, which is still open.

They then inform me that they can only send a cheque! A cheque for God's sake for an account that was opened on-line!

The cheque's arrived this morning. By the time it's cleared Santander will have held on to my money for almost two weeks longer than they should have done.

A cynical and dishonest way of screwing that bit extra from me!

But of course it's backfired as I will no longer use Santander at any price!


----------



## tattytony

inkey-2008 said:


> But you need to pay in above a set amount to qualify per month and we do not have a regular income to qualify.
> 
> Andy


The person setting up the account said that if you transfer £1000 in and then back to the savings account it has come from that is ok as it has a minimum going in


----------



## Telbell

> The person setting up the account said that if you transfer £1000 in and then back to the savings account it has come from that is ok as it has a minimum going in Smile


That was also the case when I had a A&L account a few years back.

Seems to be a "loophole" that really isn't, because the Banks are aware of it :lol:


----------



## erneboy

My understanding it that you would open a bank account with Santander, deposit some money and use their cash card to withdraw funds, not a credit card. Cash withdrawals always cost money on a credit card. Let's see if I have understood, Alan.


----------



## tonyt

Thanks Alan - after reading my last post I realised it was a load of rubbish and have deleted it.

I believe what I'm now planning to do is what others have adopted - the funds that used to sit in my NW Flex Account, earning ziltch interest but there to support interest & commisson free cash withdrawals will now be sitting in my Santander Zero Credit Card Account, earning ziltch interest but there to support interest & commission free cash withdrawals. 

Anyway - that's the plan


----------



## erneboy

Tony, I am not sure that if your credit card account is in credit they still don't charge a withdrawal fee. Perhaps your info. will tell us, Alan.


----------



## tonyt

erneboy said:


> Tony, I am not sure that if your credit card account is in credit they still don't charge a withdrawal fee. Perhaps your info. will tell us, Alan.


Well as I read the terms, it says no fee. I'm sure there must be card holders here who could confirm that?

Is there any disadvantage to it being Master Card as opposed to Visa? Not so readily accepted??


----------



## erneboy

We found Master Card was OK most places, but cancelled it RBS suddenly started blocking it on security grounds when we were topping up mobile phones and Skype. We had been doing these transactions on the same card for ages but they suddenly decided it was suspicious, Alan.


----------



## peejay

tonyt said:


> Thanks Alan - after reading my last post I realised it was a load of rubbish and have deleted it.
> 
> I believe what I'm now planning to do is what others have adopted - the funds that used to sit in my NW Flex Account, earning ziltch interest but there to support interest & commisson free cash withdrawals will now be sitting in my Santander Zero Credit Card Account, earning ziltch interest but there to support interest & commission free cash withdrawals.
> 
> Anyway - that's the plan


Bear with me on this one, how do you pay cash into a credit card account? I didn't think that was possible :? .

Pete


----------



## erneboy

I used to do it before going on holiday. Just send them a cheque and details of which account to credit the money to, Alan.


----------



## peejay

Thanks Alan,

I have applied for the Halifax Clarity credit card which, at 12.9% and no cash withdrawal fees has a slightly better apr than the 18.9% of the Santander card. 
If I can preload this credit card with enough cash before going away, does anyone know if we would still incur charges on cash advances? Its set up to be paid off completely by direct debit each month

Pete


----------



## raynipper

peejay said:


> Thanks Alan,
> 
> I have applied for the Halifax Clarity credit card which, at 12.9% and no cash withdrawal fees has a slightly better apr than the 18.9% of the Santander card.
> If I can preload this credit card with enough cash before going away, does anyone know if we would still incur charges on cash advances? Its set up to be paid off completely by direct debit each month Pete


Pete, why don't you just apply for a PO CC to cover most purchases while abroad and take a modest amount of cash as well for the little things?

Ray.


----------



## peejay

Thanks Ray but the PO charge 2.5% for cash withdrawals abroad and I already use my Tesco credit card for other purchases abroad which supplements our ferry cost with clubcard points.

We spend a fait bit of time in Germany and its not always possible to use credit cards, especially at supermarkets, so looking for the most cost effective way of drawing cash abroad now Nationwide are pulling the plug.

Pete


----------



## raynipper

OK Pete.
We had some American friends over last month and they 'charged' just about everything except tips and a baguette. 

We personally like the PO card as it does not add the 2.95% to every foreign purchase like many other cards.

Ray.


----------



## Rapide561

*Clarity*

Hi

I have the new Halifax clarity card and will be putting the account into credit before going overseas, thus no interest can be charged as I am not borrowing money.

I will report back after the test, but this is not until October (confirmed) or possibly September - not booked yet!

Russell

To put a credit card into credit, simply pay more than your outstandning bill.


----------



## JimmyBee

*Re: Clarity*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have the new Halifax clarity card and will be putting the account into credit before going overseas, thus no interest can be charged as I am not borrowing money.
> 
> I will report back after the test, but this is not until October (confirmed) or possibly September - not booked yet!
> 
> Russell
> 
> To put a credit card into credit, simply pay more than your outstandning bill.


Russell,

Why would you do that, rather than use the Satander Zero account? Is it that the commission rate of the santander zero account is not good because of some loading?

Thanks

James


----------



## ambegayo

*Nationwide*

I have just been looking at the Nationwide website and going through from Current Card- Foreign Transaction I found a paragragh stating 1% would not be charge if stated so in the A-Z list of countrys. Looked at this (which lists most countries one could think of) and all the countries we would likely visit (France,Spain,Portugal,Italy and many other (see list) state No fee charged. I am going to copy and past this page (if I can find it again :roll: and pay a visit to my local Nationwide. Flexicard IS their version of a current account, which we use. 
I'll let you know what answer I get from our local!!when I have it.


----------



## inkey-2008

Up until November that maybe correct that there is no charge but from November onwards there will be a charge.

Andy


----------



## ambegayo

*Nationwide*

They should sort their website out then, I have copied and pasted today both sides of the coin so to speak -given that there are so many links that once you have 'got there' to try and repeat your passage is a wilderness :!: I think have misinterpreted this because the first info that I got was the 'A-Z' page and this obviously applies until the 31st October 2010. I to think it unfair. but doesn't surprise me. Last week I had to make two trips because the first cashier told me they couldn't set up a single payment, I tried on line but couldn't understand what they wanted in the boxes, so I returned to NW to be told by second cashier Oh yes we can do that here. How they expect most of the country to do banking on line---- well :lol: :lol:


----------



## thesnail

*Nationwide*

I have had a letter from nationwide stating categorically that they most definately WILL be charging me, and it's quite a lot. I have disposed of both the letter and my current account with Nationwide.

I did use the Flex account as my main bank account, and therefore did expect to be exempt from the charges, however after emailing them, I most definatley would be charged.

I also have an HSBC Premier Account, and altho' they have very veryslightly higher exchange rates (less than .5%) on the international exchange rate, there is NO CHARGE to either get cash from an ATM or to use thier credit card whilst abroad

Needless to say, I have cancelled my Nationwide account and transferred all the transactions.

I have since received a letter from them stating how sorry they are to lose our account, but nevertheless the charges will still stand.

Rosemary - Mrs Snail.


----------



## Hobbyfan

Nationwide has publicised these changes on its website for some time now. Its new charges are a commission of 2% on all transactions, which is still very competitive.

If you withdraw cash from an ATM there an extra charge of £1.00. Instead of drawing 100 Euro I shall probably draw 300, which will save ATM charges.

On the plus side NW is now offering free travel insurance to anyone using the Flex Account as their main account. It's a reasonable policy but the main restriction is that it's only for trips of 31 days, although you can increase this for a fee.

I calculate that I'll be no worse off as I can cancel my usual travel insurance and I'll probably be better off.

I'm sticking with them for now.


----------



## thesnail

*N/Wide*

I also get free insurance from my HSBC Premier Account, and it covers lots of pre-existing conditions that other insurers don't cover.

AND I get cash back with my HSBC Prem credit card

I certainly don't think that N/Wide are being reasonable.

Rosemary


----------



## Hobbyfan

*Re: Nationwide*



thesnail said:


> I also have an HSBC Premier Account, and altho' they have very veryslightly higher exchange rates (less than .5%) on the international exchange rate, there is NO CHARGE to either get cash from an ATM or to use thier credit card whilst abroad


HSBC's Premier account debit card levies a 2.75% commission on all transactions. This from its website:

"Any foreign currency debit card payments (including cash withdrawals) are converted to sterling by VISA or MasterCard (as appropriate) using wholesale market rates applying on the day the conversion is made. These transactions are subject to our foreign exchange charge of 2.75%. We will deduct the payment from your account once we receive details of the payment from the card scheme, at the latest the next working day. Details of the current wholesale market rates can be obtained by calling us on the usual telephone numbers."

Nationwide charges only 2% and then gives you free travel insurance.

If you draw 900 Euro from ATMs in three tranches using Nationwide you'll pay £3.00 ATM charges and £18.00 commission.

Drawing the same amount from HSBC will cost you £24.75, an increase of £3.75.

Plus, every time you use your debit card in a shop or for diesel for instance you'll be paying 2.75% interest instead of Nationwide's 2%.

The above of course refers to a debit card as we're comparing like for like. You mention a credit card, which is very different. I believe that HSBC charges a similar commission if you use its credit card abroad but then, if you don't pay it promptly there's also interest of about 12%.


----------



## Zebedee

Yes Hobby, and very sneaky it is too.

Not at all "up-front" or obvious . . . you need to look for the "hidden extras" or you could easily (as Brian did) think HSBC was offering a very fair and better deal.

No chance . . . how many billions was it in their last HALF YEAR 8O profit declaration?

Dave


----------



## TR5

Has anyone tried to get, or received details of the travel insurance offered to flexaccount holders?

If so, are the terms worth considering?


----------



## Hobbyfan

TR5 said:


> Has anyone tried to get, or received details of the travel insurance offered to flexaccount holders? If so, are the terms worth considering?


Yes, I received full details ages ago and I think that it's a reasonable policy. The one area that may be a problem for some is that it's only for trips up to 31 says, but so are many others.

It will save me about £80 on my existing policy, which is for two people and as I go away little and often the 31 days isn't a problem. We're off for a month in January (to Spain) and I just make sure that I tailor the ferry bookings so we're away from the U.K. for 31 days as opposed to 32, which would invalidate it.

It is listed on Nationwide's website and I attach a link:

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/travel-cover-summary.htm


----------



## TR5

Thanks Hobbyfan,

I tried to get details both from a branch, and online, and have had conflicting infomation from both.

Branch: Insurance supplied by LV (Liverpool Victoria
Online: Insurance supplied by UK Insurance Ltd

Branch: Enrolment terms 2 months after applying
Phone: Instant if qualifying account

Branch: No details in-house, phone this number - was LV for a paying policy
Online: Details available in branch, online, by phone.

Branch: For primary account holder only, not covering partner with joint account.
Phone: For bothparties if qualifying account.

There is so much conflicting information being given out, that I await the Statement of Cover, and a copy of the policy terms before making up my mind.


----------



## inkey-2008

ambegayo was right about the no charge in europe but he has been reading the credit card terms and conditions. 

I have just called the credit card call centre and they have confirmed that there is no charge for using the Nationwide credit card in Europe as long as you pay off the balance at the end of the month.

We will be looking to use this route to buy food and fuel and anything else we can charge to the account then draw out 300e for the cash side of things.

Andy


----------



## Hobbyfan

inkey-2008 said:


> We will be looking to use this route to buy food and fuel and anything else we can charge to the account then draw out 300e for the cash side of things.
> 
> Andy


There is always a 2.5% cash advance fee using the NW credit card, either here or abroad but if purchases are totally commission free it still seems a good deal.

I'm dashing now but will read the small print on repayment when I get back.


----------



## Chascass

Hobbyfan said:


> TR5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to get, or received details of the travel insurance offered to flexaccount holders? If so, are the terms worth considering?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I received full details ages ago and I think that it's a reasonable policy. The one area that may be a problem for some is that it's only for trips up to 31 says, but so are many others.
> 
> It will save me about £80 on my existing policy, which is for two people and as I go away little and often the 31 days isn't a problem. We're off for a month in January (to Spain) and I just make sure that I tailor the ferry bookings so we're away from the U.K. for 31 days as opposed to 32, which would invalidate it.
> 
> It is listed on Nationwide's website and I attach a link:
> 
> http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/travel-cover-summary.htm
Click to expand...

They do offer a Optional upgrade to the 31 day rule, don't know what extra you pay, but it is there if required.

Charlie


----------



## provencal

Regarding the Travel Insurance. If you're over 65 you must call ***** for a medical screening. I did and was told that you need to answer a few basic questions over the telephone before travelling. This covers you for a year, so I have decided to wait until a trip is imminent before being screened. You need to renew the screening each year and then between the ages of 75 and 79 they offer a special rate.

We currently use the LloydsTSB scheme, which is I think much better, and I am disappointed that Nationwide have taken something I did want with one hand and given me something I don't want in return. 

Like lots of others we went to Nationwide for their attractive terms on Debit Card cash advances when abroad.

Brian


----------



## Rapide561

*Insurance cover*

I finally received my policy document etc earlier this week. The cover looks ok, but to be fair, I am clogging up my wallet with another plastic card that will be of no use to me once the fee free Europe stuff is gone.

I am going to write an thread about cards overseas next week after I have done a few experiments in Italy or where ever we end up.

Russell


----------



## Hobbyfan

Chascass said:


> They do offer a Optional upgrade to the 31 day rule, don't know what extra you pay, but it is there if required.
> Charlie


I phoned them some time ago about the option of extending it to two months and was told that it would be about £40. This still makes it good value as policies which cover longer periods are always quite a bit more.


----------



## Hobbyfan

provencal said:


> Regarding the Travel Insurance. If you're over 65 you must call ***** for a medical screening
> Brian


This is not strictly the case. If you were an existing customer before August 2nd and using your account as your main account, the policy covers people up to 74 years old.

If however you opened your account after August 2nd it only covers you up to 64, without some form of screening.

It's all listed on NW's website under the policy's terms and conditions.


----------



## Hobbyfan

inkey-2008 said:


> I have just called the credit card call centre and they have confirmed that there is no charge for using the Nationwide credit card in Europe as long as you pay off the balance at the end of the month.
> Andy


I don't think that this is the case with cash advances. NW's credit card terms and conditions clearly state that there is no interest-free period on cash advances.

Lower down the page it says that interest is charged from the transaction date until the balance is paid.

So purchases of goods and services may not have a commission charge but cash advances not only have a 2.75% commission charge but there is then interest to pay at quite a high rate until such time as you pay it off.

At least that's how I read it!

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/creditcard/goldcard/more-details.htm

Edited to say:

Just noticed the foreign transactions section which appears to contradict what I've just said above! It seems odd that they charge interest on cash drawn in the UK but not abroad so I need further clarification to see if this is the case.


----------



## Chascass

The Nationwide Credit card is still free of any charges ( other than cash at ATMs) within the EEC, not many places do not take cards these days, so as in this country where I use the Tesco card whenever I can a lot of cash is not required.

In my opinion with Free travel insurance the majority of customers that use the Flex as there main account are on a winner.

Charlie


----------



## provencal

ï»¿Dear Hobbyfan,

I beg to differ about it being strictly the case.

I was an existing customer before August 2nd and using our account as our main account, so
received a letter (EB01) from Nationwide clearly stating:

Nationwide's offers are designed to be clear and transparent. The only qualifying criteria are that:
* ...... use as main account and credit £750 .. each month
* ....... special rates over 75
* If you're over 65 you must call 0845 246 1692 for a medical screening.

So I'm afraid, it's not all listed on NW's website under the policy's terms and conditions

Regards,

Brian


----------



## Hobbyfan

provencal said:


> ï»¿
> I beg to differ about it being strictly the case.
> Brian


This is a link to NW's terms and conditions. You will note two separate headings, one for those who were signed up before August 2nd and one for those who signed up after that date.

The former quite clearly states an upper limit of 74. I have also checked the terms and conditions booklet, which says exactly the same. I have not been informed that people over 65 who qualify have to have a screening (even a simple one by telephone).

Is it possible that you have not fulfilled all the terms and conditions? Even if your account was opened before August 2nd you must have deposited at least £750 per month and transferred all your direct debits to NW before that date.

I'll be interested to learn what you eventually discover as we appear to have a dichotomy here.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/travel-cover-eligibility.htm

Did you say that this was in a separate letter to you? I do not have that letter and may have mislaid it. As you say, there's no mention in the terms and conditions, which is odd. If it's not mentioned anywhere in the T & Cs I can't see how they can enforce it but I shall phone them on Monday to check.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Chascass

I rang the insurance dept last week on there direct number (08452461692) My wife and I are both under 65 and fulfil al the criteria to qualify for the free insurance, we both had to have a simple screening, i.e. Are you on any medication at present etc.

This type of question is asked by all company's when seeking travel insurance, otherwise to take it to its extreme they could be covering someone with only weeks to live.

Charlie


----------



## TR5

I have now taken up this travel insurance.

The policy document clearly states that, IF you were a customer prior to 2nd August, AND you comply with the criteria (qualify), that you are covered up to 74 years of age, or more specifically, up to 31st December following your 75th birthday.

That is, of course if you can answer no to several medical questions as well, like hospitalisation in last 12 months, suffered from.....,etc...


----------



## Hobbyfan

Chascass said:


> I rang the insurance dept last week. My wife and I are both under 65 and fulfil al the criteria to qualify for the free insurance, we both had to have a simple screening.
> Charlie


I'm curious as to why you had to ring as you're under 65. I've just finished reading the small print in the policy document and nowhere is there any mention of a compulsory screening.

In the policy booklet it recommends phoning if you are unsure whether or not you will be covered for a particular condition but again, there is no mention of a compulsory screening for people over 65.

It seems odd that it isn't in the policy document. I don't doubt that it may have said it in the letter but I'm not sure how it can be enforced if it's not in the main policy document.

Pity it's Saturday and they're closed, I'll phone on Monday and nail this down once and for all.


----------



## TR5

Chascass said:


> I rang the insurance dept last week on there direct number (08452461692) My wife and I are both under 65 and fulfil al the criteria to qualify for the free insurance, we both had to have a simple screening, i.e. Are you on any medication at present etc.
> 
> This type of question is asked by all company's when seeking travel insurance, otherwise to take it to its extreme they could be covering someone with only weeks to live.
> 
> Charlie


I would consider that as qualifying criteria, not screening.

As stated previously, the terms of the policy asks these questions.
It is like any insurance policy, a car policy for instance asking if you have points on your licence. If the answer is no, you have nothing to declare!

I would consider the use of the work "screening" as a means of proving whether you are, or are not, a greater risk.

Remember, you have the responsibility to inform your insurer of any conditions, whatever they are, that do not, or may not, conform to the terms of the policy.


----------



## Chascass

I rang because I am 65 next year  and wanted to no how the insurance would be affected.

Charlie


----------



## provencal

Dear Hobbyfan,

The letter (EB01) I received was their free offer to me as a qualifying customer, ie fulfilling all of the necessary conditions. There are other letters sent to customers who do not meet the conditions, offering insurance which can be paid for.

Hope this clears the confusion.

Brian


----------



## Hobbyfan

I finally got round to phoning Nationwide's insurer and this is the situation:

If you are covered up to age 74, which you will be if you opened your account before August 2nd., and are 65 or older, you do have to phone the insurer.

However, this is not for a medical screening as such but purely so they can inform you that pre-existing conditions are not covered. That's no surprise of course because they never are with a new policy unless you inform them and pay extra for your cover.

I told them that I was quite happy to accept that pre-existing conditions are not covered and that was the end of the conversation, no screening, no medical questions and she also said that anyone not phoning would still be covered but not of course for pre-existing conditions.

You can extend your free policy to cover pre-existing conditions if you wish, but at a price.


----------

