# Two leisure batteries damaged in 3 months!



## MBguy (May 14, 2011)

Hi folks,

I really hope someone can help me figure out what's killing my leisure batteries.

My vehicle is a 2006 Hymer B664 Classic with a Schaudt EBL and single lead acid leisure battery under the driver seat.

The history is as follows:
A) May 2011 - Original EBL101 (911.550) failed (wouldn't detect 240V input)
B) May 2011 - Purchased and installed new EBL101 with OVP01 (911.554)
C) June 2011 - Original Leisure Battery rapidly deteriorates then fails (Voltage crash within 30 mins under slight load)
D) June 2011 - Purchased and installed new Leisure battery (also 85Ah)
E) July 2011 - Few camping trips, mostly using external power.
F) Aug 2011 - New replacement Leisure Battery fails (Same Voltage crash with DC Circuit shutdown after less than 1 hour under light load - around 1A)

I can understand if the original battery was damaged when the original EBL failed ... but I can't find any reason to explain why the new battery has also failed within such a short time. Surely it's too much of a coincidence to be a factory fault in the battery.

I've already made sure of the following:
1) All installed batteries have been Lead Acid and both EBL units were set to the correct Lead Acid option (Not Gel).
2) All cables are in good condition and securely fitted and all fuses are OK.
3) The leisure battery is always fully charged before storage and reconnected to 240V external power for a day at least every two weeks.
4) There is no abnormal current drain on the battery during storage. This was tested by replacing the 2A and 50A fuses near the battery with a current meter.
- (0.01A with EBL ON, DT panel OFF, Water Drain Solenoid OFF)
- (0.02A with EBL ON, DT panel ON without backlight, Water Drain Solenoid OFF)
- (0.04A with EBL ON, DT panel ON without backlight, Water Drain Solenoid ON)

The most recent battery failure was discovered after a 15 day spell in storage with no external power connected. The DC circuit was tuned off at the DT panel leaving only the stairs, entry light and drain solenoid as possible culprits but they were all off. The 2 month old battery was fully charged before this period and should have easily survived more than 35 days even at 0.04A but the voltage was so low the DT panel wouldn't even power up the 12V circuit.

Any help and device would be much appreciated as I've just bought the third battery (EXV105 from Tayna) and don't want it to be destroyed again within weeks!


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

is your charger unit working? If the batteries is ok to start with, maybe nothing's getting through, and it is just running down in normal use?

Did you get replacements (under warranty) for the failed units? I ask beause if there was something wrong with the battery construction, surely the makers would replace it.


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## MBguy (May 14, 2011)

Thanks for the reply bognormike,

The charger unit is definately working as it raises the battery voltage while driving and while connected to EHU. I am however a bit concerned that the charging profile (Amps & Volts over time) applied to the battery might be incorrect, possibly due to a faulty Acid\Gel selector but I don't know enough to troubleshoot this. I do know that the DT panel indicates 14.4V during the initial charging phase and later drops to 13.8V where it stays.

Does anyone perhaps have a method I could use to check whether the charging profile being applied is correct for a lead acid battery?

Could a Lead Acid battery be severely damaged within a matter of weeks if a charging profile intended for a Gel battery was used?

In the next few days, I'll be sending the most recently damaged battery back to the supplier for testing and also shipping the original Elektoblock (EBL101) to Schaudt in Germany for testing and possible repair. The results probably won't be back for a week or two.


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## pieterv (Feb 3, 2009)

The difference between the gel battery and wel lead acid, is the time it keeps the battery at 14.3V after the initial bulk charge phase which is determined by the max current the battery will take or the EBL can provide.

Gel batteries are kept at 14.3V for 8h, wet baterries for only 1h, before dropping back to 13.8V.

Easily checked with a voltmeter, after the battery has reached 14.3V, it shouldn't stay there for more than 1h.

So, it could be that if the gel/wet switch doesn't work, and treats any battery as gel, a wet battery would gas more and loose water (have you checked the levels?). 


Pieter


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

It sounds as though you have checked most likely culprits. I would have thought it highly unlikely that Schaudt would let an EBL leave the factory without having checked that all functions are working correctly. The charging profile looks to be OK, BUT as Pieter says, stage 2 of the charging cycle lasts one hour when the selector is set to Blei-Saüre (Lead Acid) rather than eight hours for Blei-Gel.
If the problem is to do with charging, have you eliminated the possibility of a faulty regulator on the alternator causing over-charging when driving?

The other possibility is continual discharge causing the battery to fall to a state of permanent damage. However, you appear to have checked that possibility. The only other thought - and it's a bit "left-field" is whether there is a problem with the battery location. The Exide Gel batteries that Hymer fit (or used to fit) as standard, are only 190mm high. The lead-acid one in your first post is 220mm high and I would have thought that was rather a tight fit under the seat. This may sound a silly observation, but have you checked that nothing is touching the terminals when the seat is in position / being sat upon?


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

have a read at this.....

http://www.amplepower.com/primer/testbat/index.html

there s a lot of battery information on this website....

footnote... i d never heard of breaking batteries in before either ???


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

I've heard of 'breaking in' batteries when applied to laptop batteries but not to leisure batteries.

I wouldn't have thought that it was a good idea at all, when applied to leisure batteries, but I'm no battery expert.

I'll watch for the more informed to reply...


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

GG222 said:


> ...
> 
> I'll watch for the more informed to reply...


Oops! I mean the more informed than myself of course!
I don't want to upset anybody.


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## MBguy (May 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the quick responses and very helpful advice!

This morning, I connected the van to external power with the battery showing less than 11V following last night's brief testing. I wanted to monitor the charge profile and here's what I found:

11:00 - 14.4V and +0.4A
11:30 - 14.4V and +0.1A
12:00 - 14.4V and +0.1A
13:00 - 14.4V and +0.1A
14:00 - 14.4V and +0.1A
15:00 - 13.8V and 0.0A

Considering the helpful info from PieterV and JeanLuc, I must conclude that the charger (EBL) is using the correct profile for lead acid batteries because phase 2 didn't last 8 hours. The very low Amps also suggested that the battery is in fact damaged as per the info provided by spatz1.

So, after removing the driver chair I got the battery out and took it to Broad Lane Leisure. Their equipment provided a printout within minutes, confirming it had a dead cell. I had't even got a chance check the water level although the float window was showing green. These guys are top notch and I would recommend them any day!

So, I'll install the new battery tonight and report back ... fingers crossed, maybe I just had really bad luck in quick succession with a blown EBL and a manufacturing defect on the replacement battery.

JeanLuc ... what's the easiest way to check the alternator regulator while driving as you suggested? Can it be done by simply monitoring the DT panel while on the road?


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

By the way; I'm not claiming to be more informed :roll: 

It's usually referred to as cycling, or at least within the sport that I participate we cycle batteries when new and periodically afterwards. Most of my chargers have support for automatically cycling batteries between 1 and 10 times (D>C or C>D).

I have found it improves the capacity of ni-cd and ni-mh cells, but with LiPo and LiFe it's different, there isn't much change in capacity but it's very important as it improves the balancing aspect of the cells inside the battery. Particularly with LiPo batteries, it's very important that the cells inside charge and discharge at as near the same rate as possible, and have the exact same capacity, to the extent that the chargers and batteries have built in balance leads, whereby the individual cells are monitored and manipulated whilst charging. The cells always go out of balance to some extent whilst discharging.

When batteries are cycled it's through the workable range of the battery so can be done with leisure batteries, although personally I don't bother actively cycling leisure batteries. The article could be a little misleading as it states "complete discharge" but they are referring to the workable range.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

MBguy said:


> JeanLuc ... what's the easiest way to check the alternator regulator while driving as you suggested? Can it be done by simply monitoring the DT panel while on the road?


Afraid I'm not an expert in this area so I suggest talking to an auto electrician. Also, if you pay the subscription to MHFacts, you will be able to search for a host of useful information from some very knowledgable forum members. That may answer your question.

One simple test for the alternator regulator though is to check that the charging current is reducing as the battery becomes charged. I have an older Hymer with the EBL99 and two meters with needles above the door rather than the LCD system you have. In my case it's easy to see the charging current needle which starts at maximum when the batteries are somewhat discharged and the engine is running, then falls back over the course of a couple of hours driving. In your case, as long as you set the display to show charging current I should have thought you would see the same thing. (p.s. just realised I can see the meters over my right shoulder because mine is LHD - yours is probably RHD since you describe the battery as under the driver's seat, so you may have to get the co-pilot to monitor for you.)


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