# Why are my lights dim?



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I changed five of the fluorescent tubes in the hab area of the van recently as the old ones were dim. Some are better and some not. The Bathroom one for example is like an old double fluorescent type affair. The two lights are joined with wire and a circuit board and housed in a casing behind perspex. It used to only glow bright if on hook up or a recently charged battery. Now even on hookup its dim most of the time but now and again glows bright.

The few single ones around the van are bright but quickly go dim when off hookup. They never used to be like that. 

I can only assume there is maybe a voltage drop issue. Any ideas? Would switching to LED tubes cure the problem, are they more voltage tolerant? The big lights on the roof which are normal bulbs are fine and the LED spots we have are ok as well.


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## bazzy (Sep 22, 2010)

barryd said:


> I changed five of the fluorescent tubes in the hab area of the van recently as the old ones were dim. Some are better and some not. The Bathroom one for example is like an old double fluorescent type affair. The two lights are joined with wire and a circuit board and housed in a casing behind perspex. It used to only glow bright if on hook up or a recently charged battery. Now even on hookup its dim most of the time but now and again glows bright.
> 
> The few single ones around the van are bright but quickly go dim when off hookup. They never used to be like that.
> 
> I can only assume there is maybe a voltage drop issue. Any ideas? Would switching to LED tubes cure the problem, are they more voltage tolerant? The big lights on the roof which are normal bulbs are fine and the LED spots we have are ok as well.


Maybe your age, just maybe . . .

Chorus
My eyes are dim I can-not see. 
I have not got my specs with me. 
I have HEY! Not HO! got my specs with me.

:wink2:


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

It does sound like voltage drop. 

Being the superb practical MHer that you are, you'll have a length of 2-core flex that you can do a temporary connection direct to the light from the hab battery as a check.

Or use your digital test meter to compare voltage at battery and light.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He hasn't answered pardner, I think you have gast his flabber.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Actually I do have all those things including a tester!

Shall give it a go. Its an interesting one as I discovered our iBoost wigs out when the voltage is too low. According to Addie at Motorhomewifi its tolerance limit was 9. something volts but our battery at the time was showing 12.1 I Think on the solar controller. The reason I mention this is I am starting to wonder if there is a voltage issue getting to some appliances and if so why.

TV is ok as is most things.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi



test the voltage at the appliance then switch on and see if the voltage drops at the 

the cable in m/homes is a little on the thin side and a bad connection will not help


barry


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I have a a row of 18" flowers ants that run above the cupboards that reflect off the cieling that I only use on hookup. 2 were very much dimmer than the rest so I changed them. Blimey it made a difference. The new ones made the other five look slightly dim. I wasn't aware that they did but some flower ants definitely dim with age.

Dick

P's such a lovely spell check error that I left it for your enjoyment.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Sounds like your geriatric flower ants should be pensioned off.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Please enlighten me! What on earth are flower ants????:surprise:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

caulkhead said:


> Please enlighten me! What on earth are flower ants????:surprise:


 "Fluorescent" :smile2:

tony


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

GEMMY said:


> "Fluorescent" :smile2:
> 
> tony


Oh thanks from me. 
You can be handy sometimes >

Jan x


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

GEMMY said:


> "Fluorescent" :smile2:
> 
> tony


Ah ha!!! Hence the comment about the spell check error which I didn't notice first time!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The TV is VERY voltage sensitive IMO, so it sounds as if the wires to the lights may be the problem, BUT where it splits off I have not got a clue - it could be that at that point there is an "iffy" junction which perhaps simply needs cleaning. Your lights WOULD PROBABLY be wired in parallel and the first one on the chain may be the site of the poor connection..... but I do not know which is the first and thee wiring diagram probably won't help.....

The voltmeter may show a voltage drop, but if it is a poor connection it may be the current getting through rather than the voltage - voltage is the equivalent of the water pressure for water flowing through a pipe, whereas the current (amps) is the equivalent of the volume of water - watts is the power (volts x amps) - think back to an old water wheel, it requires a large volume of water at low pressure, or a smaller volume at high pressure to generate useful power to e.g. grind corn.

So the volt reading may not show a difference if the poor connection simply limits the current that can pass - hence the earlier comment about thin wires - thin wires resist greater current going through....

Not a lot of help, but a poor junction between the bright and the dim ones MAY help you locate it - check the connections on the bright one and ensure they are tight and clean.

I hope.......

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks all (I think  )

Ill do some checking over the next couple of days. I suppose like a house maybe rewiring is required after a while. This van is 20 years old now.


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## mike800966 (May 1, 2005)

I am assuming these units operate off the 12v supply NOT MAINS
If you can get to the light unit terminals than applying a voltmeter with the light switched OFF should indicate the same voltage as at the battery . Now switch the light on and measure again. There will be a difference . 
A couple of points though, as fluorescent tubes get older, the light output falls. Probably the inverter ( in the light unit) also gets less efficient. Dont forget that the older fluorescent fittings draw about an amp or so in any case so whilst they are more efficient than filament lamps, they are not particularly effective at converting amps into lumens!

If you can change them to more efficient LED's then you will get more light ( lumens).
Also because they draw less current there will be less voltage drop on the wiring ( even if there is a bad connection somewhere) but it would be best to first check if you do have a connection fault. It may even be a corroded fuse holder somewhere
If you really want to get involved measure the voltage drop from battery to the units ( with them switched on) that should tell you if its a 12v supply problem or just poor earth returns.

Hope this helps and I haven't confused anyone 

Mike


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

mike800966 said:


> I am assuming these units operate off the 12v supply NOT MAINS
> If you can get to the light unit terminals than applying a voltmeter with the light switched OFF should indicate the same voltage as at the battery . Now switch the light on and measure again. There will be a difference .
> A couple of points though, as fluorescent tubes get older, the light output falls.* Probably the inverter ( in the light unit) also gets less efficient*. Dont forget that the older fluorescent fittings draw about an amp or so in any case so whilst they are more efficient than filament lamps, they are not particularly effective at converting amps into lumens!
> 
> ...


Thanks. I didnt know they had an inverter. (yes they are 12v) The twin one in the bathroom clearly has some circuitry but the single ones dont (or maybe they do). I bet they are the original ones and ancient. Ive not looked yet but you might have hit on something there I suspect as if you remember I changed all the tubes for new ones.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Can't go give you chapter and verse at the moment but I spent a long time last year researching 12v f tubes vs LEDs re lumen for lumen. In the end I was surprised to discover that there was not a great difference between the two efficiency wise. And simply replaced my dim worn out tubes.

Dick


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Glandwr said:


> Can't go give you chapter and verse at the moment but I spent a long time last year researching 12v f tubes vs LEDs re lumen for lumen. In the end I was surprised to discover that there was not a great difference between the two efficiency wise. And simply replaced my dim worn out tubes.
> 
> Dick


I remember you mentioning it which is why I did the same. The issue is not the bulbs clearly though. I do wish (as does Mrs D) that Swift had put a bulb above the toilet seat as its always a bit of a gamble with a dim light behind me whether your aim is right or not.  This field has been well watered though.

I did try a stick on battery powered LED light but it fell off mid flow and went straight into the Thetford. I think its probably floating about in the Med by now.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

barryd said:


> I remember you mentioning it which is why I did the same. The issue is not the bulbs clearly though. I do wish (as does Mrs D) that Swift had put a bulb above the toilet seat as its always a bit of a gamble with a dim light behind me whether your aim is right or not.  This field has been well watered though.
> 
> *I did try a stick on battery powered LED light but it fell off mid flow and went straight into the Thetford.* I think its probably floating about in the Med by now.


I thought your 'work' had given you expertise with Velcro and doudle-sided tape. Clearly that is not the case.

You need 3M VHB double sided tape. I think I'll set myself up as an IT ex-spurt. Maybe.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Have you thought of taking off your Ray-bans?

I've noticed in the winter our ceiling flower ants are very dim due to low temperature and take quite a while to warm up and get to full brightness. Has it got that cold 'oop norf'?


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

barryd said:


> I remember you mentioning it which is why I did the same. The issue is not the bulbs clearly though. I do wish (as does Mrs D) that Swift had put a bulb above the toilet seat as its always a bit of a gamble with a dim light behind me whether your aim is right or not.  This field has been well watered though.
> *
> I did try a stick on battery powered LED light but it fell off mid flow and went straight into the Thetford. I think its probably floating about in the Med by now. *




I dread to think what you stuck the light onto...


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Gemmy*

What are Ray-bans?
Jan


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Sun glasses Jan.

Anyway the led stick on light had its own sticky Tuggers but yes the 3m Velcro clicky stuff is the way to go. As you know I am an expert in using it in the professional fitting of expensive IT equipment to roofs etc.  

The LED light was rubbish anyway before it got flushed out to sea


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

barryd said:


> ...I did try a stick on battery powered LED light but it fell off mid flow and went straight into the Thetford. I think its probably floating about in the Med by now.


Thanks for cheering up a dim and grey day barry!! :grin2:


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## mike800966 (May 1, 2005)

This might seem to be OTT, but for night-time visits I have a circular battery powered led light under the handy shelf but I covered the lens with red film so that not only can I see what I am doing but when I have finished I can still see my way round the 'van! The one I use has a magnet in the back and I just stuck a small bit of tinplate steel under the shelf for the magnet work on. I suppose super Velcro would be as easy.

I know that it sounds like something out of a submarine movie starring Sean Connery! 
But it works

Mike
PS Ann never seems to need to use my little mod !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

mike800966 said:


> This might seem to be OTT, but for night-time visits I have a circular battery powered led light under the handy shelf but I covered the lens with red film so that not only can I see what I am doing but when I have finished I can still see my way round the 'van! The one I use has a magnet in the back and I just stuck a small bit of tinplate steel under the shelf for the magnet work on. I suppose super Velcro would be as easy.
> 
> I know that it sounds like something out of a submarine movie starring Sean Connery!
> But it works
> ...


An interesting solution, similar to the one I tried but clearly more thought through. I could add to that though. What about some kind of ultraviolet or black light that makes the "stream" glow? 

Or one of these?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I was once told very firmly by an old german girl friend that german mothers teach little boys only to **** standing up outdoors. I have a Hymer so ............. :laugh:

Dick


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> ..... always a bit of a gamble with a dim light behind me whether your aim is right or not.  This field has been well watered though.


There is a very simple solution that is better for the environment (no batteries needed), more popular with the person responsible for cleaning said target and requires absolutely no effort on your behalf and in fact will save you energy and the need to wake yourself up so much....

Adopt the position that MrsD does - *sit down*.....

aiming no longer needed as the "angle of dangle" suffices most time, you do not need to expend energy standing up, you do not need to think "Where did I put that light?", or "did I turn it off?" and no worry about objects being dispatched to pollute the Med....

The simplest answers are often the best and that is the most simple way to solve THAT problem....>

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Sit down!!! Gerroff Dave. You will be expecting me to do the washing and Ironing next! 

Tell you what though, been here six weeks now, this field is well watered.


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## Harrers (Dec 21, 2011)

barryd said:


> An interesting solution, similar to the one I tried but clearly more thought through. I could add to that though. What about some kind of ultraviolet or black light that makes the "stream" glow?
> 
> Or one of these?


Gives a whole new meaning to "motion activated"! It is too late if you wait for that to bring the light on!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't think I'm particularly enhanced in this department, but there is no way on earth I could pee in the MoHo sat down, even less chance in the dark or first thing, it may work for little boys though   talk about a design flaw.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

These lights are recharged during the day, you could put one on the stick it came with and point in the direction you want to see, that is if its a one handed job >


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I'd be less than pleased if the other half didn't sit down in the MH 

It's bad enough at home with all the males taking aim 

And they are sure they are dead on target, splashing 

I just clean the toilet , and the wall around it 

And the mat below goes for daily washing 

In the MH it's his fault, no excuse 

I certainly can't pee up the wall

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> These lights are recharged during the day, you could put one on the stick it came with and point in the direction you want to see, that is if its a one handed job >


Re Stick on lights. Refer to earlier post!


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

I have provided a jug for the use of in the bathroom, no aiming required, once finished, empty jug contents in thetford, no splashes!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kaytutt said:


> I have provided a jug for the use of in the bathroom, no aiming required, once finished, empty jug contents in thetford, no splashes!


An interesting idea but I am not sure about having to deal with pottery in a small bathroom in the dark in the middle of the night is a good idea especially after several beers.  It is fraught with danger.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Our van has a blue night light on the ceiling just outside the bathroom at the bottom of the bed

Handy to see around the van and to illuminate the toilet if the door is left open

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> I'd be less than pleased if the other half didn't sit down in the MH
> 
> It's bad enough at home with all the males taking aim
> 
> ...


You need to lean back more or get a shewee, no more excuses.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Kaytutt said:


> I have provided a jug for the use of in the bathroom, no aiming required, once finished, empty jug contents in thetford, no splashes!


Glad someone else has used a bit of sense Kay, but I'd be afraid of kicking it over, I use a large empty and sterilised washing liquid container (Formil from Lidl) for night time visits, it has a screw top, and it gets emptied and cleaned out every morning.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

When we had a caravan with no inside loo, (toilet tent outside), we had a bucket with lid that we both used at night.
We have one for the van now (not for me) and in the morning out it goes. Saves a lot of cassette emptying. :laugh:
Jan


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

JanHank said:


> When we had a caravan with no inside loo, (toilet tent outside), we had a bucket with lid that we both used at night.
> We have one for the van now (not for me) and in the morning out it goes. Saves a lot of cassette emptying. :laugh:
> Jan


Nowt quite like the sound of peeing into a galvanised bucket in the middle of the night, or kicking it over, you wimmin do miss out on some seriously good stuff at times.

God was deffo a bloke though, no flushes or tother things, made men have better eyesight, made us able to read maps and put up shelves (Barry was sick that day) he got the bits right for peeing though


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> You need to lean back more or get a shewee, no more excuses.


I can hardly standup straight in the MH

Lean back no chance

Id prob pee on the floor anyway 
Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Kaytutt said:


> I have provided a jug for the use of in the bathroom, no aiming required, once finished, empty jug contents in thetford, no splashes!


I can't see Mrs Eb agreeing to **** in a jug.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Although

When we wild camp I pee in a bowl which fits snugly into the toilet

He pees up the outside foliage 

I water the lower foliage 

Reduce it with water

No harm done 

Sandra


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

barryd said:


> An interesting idea but I am not sure about having to deal with pottery in a small bathroom in the dark in the middle of the night is a good idea especially after several beers.  It is fraught with danger.


It's a plastic jug dopey! You don't think I'd give him a proper pottery one to pee in do you??


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

erneboy said:


> I can't see Mrs Eb agreeing to **** in a jug.


Anatomically she wouldn't need to use a jug.. unless she's had an operation :surprise:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

At times I wonder, no doubt about that.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

aldra said:


> Although
> 
> When we wild camp_ I pee in a bowl which fits snugly into the toilet_
> Sandra


What a brilliant idea, bobbing down is not so bad, its the getting up I have trouble with:frown2:
I have just put a little bowl in the Navajo loo and its just right.
Often I´ve been half afraid to _pee _because the its getting a bit full.
Why haven´t you told me before Sandra :grin2:
With another bowl same size it could also be transformed into a bidet, mmm :smile2:
Jan


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

JanHank said:


> With another bowl same size it could also be transformed into a bidet, mmm :smile2:
> Jan


Now there's an idea, and if you put a plug in it...and grab the shower head sorted.


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

JanHank said:


> What a brilliant idea, bobbing down is not so bad, its the getting up I have trouble with:frown2:
> I have just put a little bowl in the Navajo loo and its just right.
> Often I´ve been half afraid to _pee _because the its getting a bit full.
> Why haven´t you told me before Sandra :grin2:
> ...


Ladies can use jugs too and that eliminates the need to sit down and get back up however it's not very elegant :wink2: but I'll admit to resorting to using a jug when caught short with a full thetford once


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kaytutt said:


> Ladies can use jugs too and that eliminates the need to sit down and get back up however it's not very elegant :wink2: but I'll admit to resorting to using a jug when caught short with a full thetford once


More info needed. What kind of Jug? How did you use said jug without sitting on it? can you get jugs you can sit on? where did this event take place? Is the jug still in use and what for? do you need a special jug?

I like the sound of the jug idea though as being incredibly lazy I could just do away with using the loo completely especially at night when your asleep but need to pee. Use the jug then just lob the contents out of the window (remembering to keep hold of the jug). This could prove unpopular if your on a tight fitting Aire and the neighbouring van has its windows open but the French seem very liberal about toilet issues so maybe it wont be a problem. I think a mod should put this in top tips.


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

barryd said:


> More info needed. What kind of Jug? How did you use said jug without sitting on it? can you get jugs you can sit on? where did this event take place? Is the jug still in use and what for? do you need a special jug?
> 
> I like the sound of the jug idea though as being incredibly lazy I could just do away with using the loo completely especially at night when your asleep but need to pee. Use the jug then just lob the contents out of the window (remembering to keep hold of the jug). This could prove unpopular if your on a tight fitting Aire and the neighbouring van has its windows open but the French seem very liberal about toilet issues so maybe it wont be a problem. I think a mod should put this in top tips.


Plastic 1 litre measuring jug
For me to know and you to ponder
I don't know I've never looked
In the motorhome
Yes for peeing in
I don't but you might :wink2:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> More info needed. What kind of Jug? How did you use said jug without sitting on it? can you get jugs you can sit on? where did this event take place? Is the jug still in use and what for? do you need a special jug?
> 
> I like the sound of the jug idea though as being incredibly lazy I could just do away with using the loo completely especially at night when your asleep but need to pee. Use the jug then just lob the contents out of the window (remembering to keep hold of the jug). This could prove unpopular if your on a tight fitting Aire and the neighbouring van has its windows open but the French seem very liberal about toilet issues so maybe it wont be a problem. I think a mod should put this in top tips.


I'm reporting this post. You sound too much like a pervert and too interested in ladies bodily functions.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

How about a oval funnel with a pipe going directly through the floor, with a bung in the top of course, don't want to get a spider looking back at you > >


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> How about a oval funnel with a pipe going directly through the floor, with a bung in the top of course, don't want to get a spider looking back at you > >


Believe it or not that has been done in a Mistral caravan and it worked very well.:laugh:


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