# Eve's Ventilator and batteries



## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Hopefully photo attached of electrical information. Someone asked on the solar panel thread. Thought it best to start a new thread.


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

The battery info, the battery charges when the Vent is plugged in to the mains.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I wouldn't know

But someone on here definitely will

I've yet to see a question somene doesn't know the answer too

Aldra


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

I just want to know if an inverter on the leisure battery is going to work or if I need either an extra leisure battery or a solar panel???


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Needs a better brain than mine I am afraid BUT 24v is twice the normal MH voltage and the current drain at that of 5a is quite heavy.... although the normal amperage is much lower than that (0.4 - 1.0a on plaque).

The battery itself is a Lithium ion 18.75v which it might be possible to find a direct 12v to 18.75 v transformer which is more energy efficient than going up to 230 and then down to 18.75v - I have a direct charger for my laptop from Maplins which goes from 12v to 19v direct and can support a laptop, but I cannot recall the maximum current it can supply.

So hopefully someone with more detailed information can give an answer.

Sorry not to be able to help more - but the suppliers may be able to advise as it cannot be a unique problem.

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

PM Peter, Listerdiesel. It will be right up his strasse and he will give the perfect advice. It's fair to say that he is the expert on transformed electrical supplies. I think he would enjoy helping and he knows his topic inside out, Alan.

Edit: A pure sine wave inverter would work I think, but it may not be necessary.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Got the PM, thanks, Dave.

Looking at the details I'd say that an inverter is the way to go, but give me 24 hours to check out a few things.

Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

What we don't know is the duty cycle of the ventilator that Eve is using.

If you take the full input current of the unit, that suggests 240Watts. The internal power supply is a switchmode universal input type, so we don't have to worry too much about waveform.

240W continuously is going to equate to nearly 300Watts at 12.5V, that is 24Amps, so we need to know if this is a continuously operating ventilator or whether Eve only uses it intermittently.

If continuous, then certainly something like extra batteries and solar panels will need to be used if EHU isn't available.

If intermittent use then given some charging from the vehicle alternator the LB may well be enough as it is.

Tina needs to let us know how much the ventilator is used before we can work something out for her.

Peter


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

The cigaret socket inverter they can supply is 200w. Does that help?
Eve is totally ventilator dependent. We always plan to stay with EHU but want to know if it would be possible to build in a safety net just in case we get caught out for an overnight. The LB in the vehicle is only 75ah


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think Peter means, is the ventilator on 24/7 or less so he can work out what is needed, but I think a larger battery will be the first step, possibly two if there is space, as 75a is about as low as you can go.

These are what I have but we're total wild campers no EHU at all, but they're a good deal 250ah for that sort of money is pretty good, I've not seen many to match them, we've had them over a year now and they seem to cope really well with a 100w panel and a good controller, cost around £300-£400 inc bits and pieces to connect it all together, and labour if not DIY, I'd offer to do the fitting for you gratis if you were a bit closer.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Mumoffive said:


> The cigaret socket inverter they can supply is 200w. Does that help?
> Eve is totally ventilator dependent. We always plan to stay with EHU but want to know if it would be possible to build in a safety net just in case we get caught out for an overnight. The LB in the vehicle is only 75ah


Tina:

Perhaps I didn't make it clear, and as Kev has asked: Is Eve running this thing all the time, or just in short bursts?

How long does the built-in battery on the ventilator last?

I'd be inclined to agree with Kev on a larger battery anyway, but Eve's requirements take precedent over most other things.

Give me a call at the factory, I'll be here today and tomorrow: 01933 356666.

Peter


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

It's the vast amount of willing help that is always given freely that makes this forum so good isn't it?

I would like to thank those who have offered such useful advice to Tina, well done, you have restored my faith in human nature.


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks everyone. Special thanks to Peter.


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

Tina john uses CPAP overnight, although it does work on 12 volts it is not so effective we use an inverter pure sine wave from Lidl have 2 batteries and solar panel .

Which model of ventilated does she have?

Sue


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Eve is on BiPap via a Nippy Junior plus


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

OK, had a chat with Tina, the ventilator internal battery gives around 15 hours of operation, maybe a bit more.

If Tina runs an inverter off the vehicle battery while they are driving, then switches to the leisure battery when stopped, the ventilator battery will have a full night's capacity and they wouldn't have to run off either the vehicle battery or the leisure battery overnight, but could switch on to either in the morning. That covers that side of things.

A larger battery would be advantageous, but as I pointed out to Tina, the charging arrangements have to be suitable to be able to do that, so possibly Monday Tina will pop in to the factory so we can check and see what facilities the motorhome has for L/battery charging.

I'd suggest the Waeco range of inverters, something like the 550W model. it doesn't have to be pure sine wave, and I can lend her our one of the same make and model to try out before they buy one. It would need to be wired to a better quality socket than the cigar lighter socket in the motorhome or vehicle, I can suggest a few options there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181144648629

All in all it looks do-able without a huge cost to Tina and family.

Peter


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Well done Peter et al  

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Just a few more notes, I had to go on the lathe and make up some long drawbolts out of M12 stainless steel studding, and had a bit of time to think while I was doing the turning.

If the inverter is fitted with a flying lead and a decent plug, matching sockets can be fitted to the Leisure and Vehicle batteries, so switching between them is a doddle for Tina/Hubby.

If the EHU charger on the motorhome is not big enough, I'd get one of these in:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321317354295

Gives a decent output and comes pre-set to a suitable voltage, fitting is simple and that voltage is adjustable should it be found necessary.

Would happily cope with two or more batteries at once.

Peter


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have to agree again with mrplodd comment. marvellous people on here.

cabby


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Yes, well done Peter, what a star!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Well done Peter, you're a great ambassador for MHF, it must be wonderful to be able to help so many people out of the goodness of your heart, I'm always grateful for the help you've given me since I joined the forum.

Lets hear it for Peter.


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

I relying on Eve to reward Peter with one of her amazing smiles.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Well done Peter, you're a great ambassador for MHF, it must be wonderful to be able to help so many people out of the goodness of your heart, I'm always grateful for the help you've given me since I joined the forum.
> 
> Lets hear it for Peter.


Yay, thunderous applause.

Come on Peter, give us a blush of modesty! :lol:


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks for all the kind comments, but I am not the only one on here that helps others out, plenty of others chip in and offer help and information when they can.

It is one of the features of this forum that makes it such a good one.

Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Mumoffive said:


> I relying on Eve to reward Peter with one of her amazing smiles.


Looking forward to that  

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not many are in a position to help and actually do so, you and a few others do though and that's something to be proud of so don't go all shy on us :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well said Kev !!!


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

As always Peter I am totally in awe of your expertise, knowledge and generosity. I still haven't got a bloody clue what you are recommending but I know it will be spot on. 
Just wanted to add my praise where it is due.

Terry


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

A bit of an update:

Tina popped round to the factory on the way home from Worcester and we had a look at the problem.

Three things were immediately obvious, the leisure battery was pretty much flat as a pancake, the wiring connection to the vehicle battery was next to useless and the 40A charge fuse was blown. A new fuse was procured and we left Tina with some spares.

We replaced the connection onto the vehicle battery, the split charge relay worked OK and the leisure battery started to come up on volts from 10.2 to 12.5 as we watched and ran the engine for a while.

I took the Waeco inverter out of the trailer and lent that to Tina so her hubby can connect to the leisure battery and try it out on Eve's ventilator. If that works OK then they can get their own unit and permanently install it.

My main concerns are that the method of charging the leisure battery is a bit crude, I'd want to see something more positive if they are going to strap another battery in there.

We didn't try the EHU charger as we had no way of getting mains over to where Tina had parked.

We advised Tina to check the fuse when she got home to see if it was still intact. The 6mm cable between the batteries is a bit small, it would be nice to get a heavier cable in there to save a bit of volt drop.

Once Dave (hubby) has checked out the inverter and if it is OK, we can look at other options for the batteries and the charging side.

I even got a smile out of Eve   

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Nice one Peter, you've had a busy day today.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You are a hugely generous man Peter.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

erneboy said:


> You are a hugely generous man Peter.


You have to be, seeing Eve tucked on the bed on the ventilator, who wouldn't be moved?

Peter


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Peter

Tops! 

What you did for them brought a (happy) tear to my eye.

Well done.

Geoff


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

I am welling up too, Peter.

You are a top man!  

Colin


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

We are very grateful to Peter and his son for there help. I probably need to appologise for seeming a bit grab and run. I had been on the go since before 6am and still had another hour and a half to go before home. 
Arrived home to another set of teenager problems too but that's another story. 
First job tomorrow will be to check the fuse then get David on the inverter set up. 
Really do appreciate everything. Thank you.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

No problem at all, and fully understand the need to get back home.

We can go to the next stage once you and Dave have evaluated the inverter.

Talking about it after you had gone, we think that a new larger cable is needed between the batteries, 6sq mm is too small for the distance involved, we were losing over half a volt in the lead alone.

Get the inverter sorted out first, if the ventilator runs on it OK then we can plan the next stage with you and Dave.

Peter


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

May I add my belated thanks to Peter for his incredible efforts, yes we are all moved by the picture of Eve, but before you can get the stage of seeing Eve smile you have to be close to her to see it - Peter took the step that many of us wish we could have done - getting close and offering literally, hands-on support.

We all know that Peter's expertise is second to none amongst the posters on MHF and his generous support for this family in particular is of the highest order.

I only wish that the medal scheme for meritorious service was still viable on MHF - - it is listed but does not ever seem to be have been used, but Peter would be a worthy recipient IMO.

Thanks to Peter seems such a little expression for his efforts, but that is all we can do, but all of us are really grateful that you are able to help these VIP's.

Dave


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Guys:

Thanks for the kind comments once again, but please don't make me out to be some kind of Techno-God, I'm just the same as you, I go to work to earn a living and have all the usual things to do and worry about. I do have more freedoms than most as we work for our own little company, so doing this sort of thing is easier than for someone with a regular job.

Eve's problem was something we could look at and do something about, so we got involved, and it has been very rewarding so far, just to see her little face with a smile and to get some of the problems identified if not sorted out.

The real challenge is to get ALL of the issues sorted out and 'Eve's transport' adapted to her special needs.

Peter


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

That's what this happy band is all about isn't it!

Mutual help group.

Colin


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Have been out and checked the voltage this morning and it was back at 10.4. Too much going on and needing to be out the door by 12 meant I didn't have time to check the fuse (or the water). Hopefully we will get home with enough energy to check both before it gets dark. 
I am now suspecting a duff lb if it isn't holding charge as nothing has been switched on


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Tina:

The LB is a sealed type and has probably been over discharged. If the fuse is still OK, that would probably confirm it.

Philip has four new 110AH wet batteries that he bought for his Sankey trailer rebuild, but it hasn't gone ahead. He would probably let you have two of those at a better price than you could buy them at, I'll ask him.

Check the water before you drive any distance, the engine doesn't like not having coolant!

XXXX

Peter


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Water level fine thank you. I stood and stared into the engine compartment for a good 5 minutes before I spotted the oil dipstick. But once I found it that too looks fine. 
Turned the engine over and revved a little then checked the voltage with engine running and both were 12.6+ I think that confirms the fuse is ok??


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Yes, that was what is was showing yesterday, so the charging circuit is OK, just the battery is dead.

Glad to hear the water is up to level as well, a head gasket is not what you want to get involved with.

Suggest that you get hold of Dave and between you work out where you could fit either one or two new batteries. I'm not a big fan of the batteries under the seats myself, but you may find that's the only space available.

Philip paid £110 each for his new batteries, he would take £85 each for them if that was better than you could get elsewhere. Don't feel obliged to take them, feel free to look elsewhere, it is just convenience that he has them sitting here doing nothing, apart from being charged up regularly and taking my factory floor space up.

Dimensions are 350L X 170W X 230H to the top of the terminal posts.

XXXX

Peter


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Peter what is the difference between our Sealed battery and Phillips wet ones?
I remember Dad taking the tops of the battery cells and topping up with distilled water when charging his car battery. 
Is there more risk of gas being given off with wet ones?
Sorry I'm pretty clueless


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Bumping for Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Sorry, been away at a charity do, didn't have WiFi despite showing 100% signal for 'BTWiFiWithFon'.

Regarding battery types:

'Wet' batteries are generally conventional lead-acid types with simple needs and maintenance.

You can also get sealed wet batteries which confuses the issue somewhat.

For 'Wet', I assume removable vent caps to allow refilling/topping up of electrolyte. Generally pretty robust and a good one will give a very good account of itself against other types, particularly sealed VRLA types which covers most of the rest of the market, including a sub-type which is GEL.

All are lead-acid, ALL sealed VRLA have no free electrolyte, so if you cut the case open, nothing runs out.

Sealed types with gas recombination technology (most sealed VRLA) have a limited capacity for overcharge as the gas recombination effect only works at fairly low gassing levels, if you seriously overcharge one, its vents will open and a mixture of Oxygen and Hydrogen will come out. That means that if you can't top it up, the battery has lost water.

Sealed types are also more fragile in terms of over discharging, and will enter the sulphation phase earlier than most wet batteries and will be harder to recover as well.

The convenience of sealed is their main asset, we don't find them particularly bad in use, but industrially they have had a very mixed reception.

Wet batteries have the ages-old problems of spillage, crystallised electrolyte on the terminals and having the necessary equipment to top them up, Plus providing the access for topping up and the venting to allow any gassing to escape.

Sealed is safer to be around, wet does the job just as well and is more robust.

Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Just an update on the trial of the inverter to run Eve's ventilator unit.

Tina has tried it out and it appears to handle the job with no issues, so she has kept my inverter and replaced it with an identical unit which I'll get this week, in time to fit to the trailer in time for our France trip.

Peter


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## Mumoffive (Nov 22, 2013)

Have to confess to an eliment of taking the easy option. As you are well aware we live a simple uncomplicated life 
Buying the unit we have already fitted to the leisure Battery was so much simpler than taking it off again and putting a new one on then organising an already complicated Journey due to GCSE revision class clashing with our trip to Evesham, the detour was just an obstacle too far. 
Thank you once again for your understanding Peter. I do hope the new one arrives in time with no complications.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

No problem at all, and I was very pleased to find you that cheaper price, it all helps!

XXXX

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Just caught up with this thread, so pleased the solution was found and sorted, well done Peter and Tina.


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