# Alde's TPS5000 Frost Protection



## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

All you people with the Alde wet central heating system (3000/3010) may be interested to hear about the TPS5000. This is an optional controller available from Alde. In addition to its features of allowing 7 day variable control over heating on/off times and temperatures there is a little known feature called frost protection.

Once configured, frost protection will automatically fire up the Alde whenever the MH internal temperature drops below the factory set 5 degrees centigrade (or any other value you care to set) Over the past couple of weeks this little accessory has kicked in and protected our MH from any potential frost damage with no intervention from ourselves and at very little cost. 

It works on any of the Alde Compact systems so owners of Carthago, Concorde, Dethleffs, N+B, Autocruise, Frankia and others can protect their investments at little cost with no need to drain systems etc.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Info .pdf*

Info link Here

Can this Replace the simplified Alde controller as used by Frankia Pete?

.pdf info file

TM


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Vennwood said:


> All you people with the Alde wet central heating system (3000/3010) may be interested to hear about the TPS5000. This is an optional controller available from Alde. In addition to its features of allowing 7 day variable control over heating on/off times and temperatures there is a little known feature called frost protection.
> 
> Once configured, frost protection will automatically fire up the Alde whenever the MH internal temperature drops below the factory set 5 degrees centigrade (or any other value you care to set) Over the past couple of weeks this little accessory has kicked in and protected our MH from any potential frost damage with no intervention from ourselves and at very little cost.
> 
> It works on any of the Alde Compact systems so owners of Carthago, Concorde, Dethleffs, N+B, Autocruise, Frankia and others can protect their investments at little cost with no need to drain systems etc.


Cheers Pete


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I might look into one of these.

When I read through the instructions for the Compact system, if you wanted to run the heating at a low setting (for frost protection) it seems wise to have water in the boiler (not essential but I would not do it)

The setting for radiators only, means that the circulation pump runs continuously and ignores the thermostat setting. It only works off the thermostat when set to heating/hot water.

These are the 2 things that put me off. First an expensive circulating pump to renew (after continuous running) OR leaving water in the fresh water tank and boiler.

Pump failure could give you a very hefty bill.

A cheap oil filled radiator might still be a handy option as mine is on the drive but this bit of kit could be very handy for a lot of owners.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

747 said:


> I might look into one of these.
> 
> When I read through the instructions for the Compact system, if you wanted to run the heating at a low setting (for frost protection) it seems wise to have water in the boiler (not essential but I would not do it)
> 
> ...


That's one of the real benefits of the TPS5000 system as it only switches on the heating if the temperature (internal MH temperature) drops below 5 degrees. It then switches on the central heating and pump and when the temp rises above 5 degrees it switches off again. The 5 degrees is adjustable from 5 to 10 degrees.

Under normal operation the circulation pump only works when the room temperature is below that selected by the TPS5000.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

The TPS5000 has earned its pay this past week. The frost setting has been working fine, keeping the internal temp at +5 degrees and working very economically with outside temps down to -9 last nightr

Last night the smart meter showed electricity came on for approx 10 mins every hour

Well worth the money


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## Crindle (Feb 2, 2007)

*Alde Timer ?*

Hi Vennwood......great posting, thanks. The basic controller on our Alde Compact 3000 is supported with a ZS10 Alde timer (see below), which borders on useless. It has weird functionality which I won't go into here, and does not control the pump. In other words the pump runs continuously whether heat is required or not. The timer merely switches the boiler on/off at the preselected times. As a consequence we never use it. Currently looking into fitting a TPS5000 controller which seems to shut off the whole heating system including the pump when heat is not required plus the added bonus of frost protection........Crindle.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

another option may be to swop the ALDE manual control panel for the electronic version

this would allow you to set the minimum temperature to 5'C so when it dropped below this either the gas or electric would fire up & the pump start

I swopped it out on my Frankia 3010 bolier (very easy)- though you have to also change the cable between the control panel & the boiler 

i am sure ALDE UK could advise


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*ALDE*

Any indication of Price trek?

TM


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi TM


3010-213 DIGITAL CONTROL PANEL £98.00

prices EX VAT from ALDE UK's web site !

Also required :-

The manual panel is connected to the 3010 boiler by a cable with several black wires in a bundle this is removed & replaced with a single white multi-core cable if changing to the 3010-213 electronic panel 

choose the cable length required :-

3010-215 CONNECTOR CABLE BETWEEN BOILER AND CONTROL PANEL 3010-213/413 2.5M £13.60
3010-216 CONNECTOR CABLE BETWEEN BOILER AND CONTROL PANEL 3010-213/413 5.0M £14.80
3010-217 CONNECTOR CABLE BETWEEN BOILER AND CONTROL PANEL 3010-213/413 8.5M £18.40


The digital control panel was the same external dimensions as the manual one I replaced but the new panel was deeper so I had to add an extra small piece of timber to make the hole deeper behind the new panel


Can't comment on the newer 3010-413 square touch screen panel though it looks very neat


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

take a look at page 15 on ALDE's catalogue for the control panel options frost stat and assembly frames to convert between types of panel

ALDE catalogue


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Seems to me that Alde are at last moving away from the antiquated control panels they have used for generations. About time too. It looks like its even easier to fit a decent controller with a frost feature.

Forecast -7c tonight but our little Flair will nice and frost free  

Well spotted trek


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## Crindle (Feb 2, 2007)

Morning each......currently progressing replacing ours with a digital controller, just need to know whether its compatable with our compact 3000 boiler, hopefully Graham Cutmore can answer this.......Crindle.


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## Gazzer (May 1, 2005)

From memory Graham came and fitted mine for less than £100 all in. 
However, I'm not convinced by some of the claims made previously......
It would appear that it does have to heat the hot water irrespective of the ambient temperature. In other words the boiler is on 24/7 (obviously cycling on and off) All the TP5000 does is control the pump ie when the temperature drops below 5C the pump operates to circulate the hot water. Thus saving on wear and tear on the recirculating pump only.

Quote from Graham
"The TP5000 is a time/temperature controller for the central heating. That is to say, it switches the circulation pump on or off on demand to heat the accommodation. It is a fact that the boiler will then provide hot water at any time and heating as programmed when the vehicle is in daily use. The boiler is very well insulated and once warmed up requires very little to maintain working temperature. It then provides a thermal store of heat which is instantly available for hot water or heating as required. You will see from the original switch panel that you can have hot water or hot water/stroke heating, but not heating on its own."


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

It is my understanding that in the 'radiator only' mode, the thermostat will switch off at the required temp. but the pump runs 24/7.

I suppose it would be feasible to split the 12 volt supply to the pump and reroute it through a normal household (ie 240 volt) timer. This would control the heating on a timer instead of temperature though. 

I have a double 240 volt socket in the wardrobe (where my pump is located).

I am at present using an oil filled radiator which is OK but the heat is not being spread around the whole motorhome.

I have a fear (maybe irrational) of running the heating long term without water in the boiler. I do not want to put water into the van as my driveway is sloping and it is impossible to drain properly if anything went wrong.

I am waiting to see how this TP 5000 works out before I buy one. It will certainly get a good field trial with this weather.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Gazzer said:


> From memory Graham came and fitted mine for less than £100 all in.
> However, I'm not convinced by some of the claims made previously......
> It would appear that it does have to heat the hot water irrespective of the ambient temperature. In other words the boiler is on 24/7 (obviously cycling on and off) All the TP5000 does is control the pump ie when the temperature drops below 5C the pump operates to circulate the hot water. Thus saving on wear and tear on the recirculating pump only.
> 
> ...


Well Gazzer,

I hear what you say however consider this:
1. Alde in their user manual, say you can safely run the central heating even if the water system is empty
2. The circulation pump is the bit that wears out and that is only running when needed
3. As Graham says the boiler is well insulated and heats very quickly.
4. The boiler is only on approx 10 mins per hour
5. This is not a DIY add on it is designed and approved by Alde
6. As pointed out earlier Alde have revised all their controllers to include this frost protection feature so they clearly don't think its detrimental to the unit.
7. Fitting the TPS5000 or replacing the controller with a new one does not invalidate the warranty
8. Finally in my opinion, it is a small price to pay for peace of mind knowing your £xx,000 toy is protected against frost damage.


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## Gazzer (May 1, 2005)

Vennwood said:


> Gazzer said:
> 
> 
> > From memory Graham came and fitted mine for less than £100 all in.
> ...


I'm not disputing any of this. 
Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly? 
My gripe is having to run the boiler constantly irrespective of ambient temperature. I would have thought it would have been eminently feasible in this day and age to design a system that switches on the boiler when the temperature approaches the 5-6C range?


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

with my ALDE electronic control panel the minimum temp air setting is 5C 

above this 5C the pump & boiler are off

below this 5C the pump switches on & so will the boiler if either the GAS or the ELECTRIC (3 settings - 1KW or 2KW or 3KW) or both are also activated on the control panel

the hot water cylinder if full will heat as required by its own thermostat once the ALDE is switched on & gas or electric is also set this will be independant of the minimum air temp setting of 5C .

what I dont know is what happens if there is no water in the hot water cylinder, I dont know how the hot water cylinder thermostat reacts if there is no water


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Boiler*



trek said:


> with my ALDE electronic control panel the minimum temp air setting is 5C
> 
> above this 5C the pump & boiler are off
> 
> ...


Float Switch?

Or does the extra heat from the casing keep the thermostat heated?

TM


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

I have just read through this post with interest. I have a new Burstner which comes with the touch screen controller. You can set the heating to come on at what ever temperature you wish.

The van is stored at a storage site where hook up is not available. I would like to leave me heating set at say 2 degrees to provide some sort of protection.

My concern is not around gas usage as I have 2 x 15kg bottles which I think should be sufficient. My question is around battery power. I work overseas and the van would have to survive for 28 days without a battery charge. I have 2 x 95ah batteries.

I know this is all subjective to how bad the weather gets and how cold it becomes. But taking an average winter do you think my heating would remain on and batteries sustain for the 28 days at a 2 degree setting???

Stewart


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

As I understand it the new controllers will do everything the TP5000 will do so it should have a frost setting. 

I don't think that you can set the frost setting below 5 degrees.

Regarding the power - I'd say that as far as the Alde is concerned you should be OK if its not as bad as last year. BUT the problem is what other items drain power - alarm, radio, etc. if they are linked to the engine battery and link up when one or other drops.

My gut feel is that 28 days might be the limit of your battery power if we have as bad a winter as last year, given I don't know anything about your setup Last year our leisure circuit coped ok with the Alde for all the cold period until we went away that is. 

Even a portable solar panel might help.....


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Vennwood said:


> As I understand it the new controllers will do everything the TP5000 will do so it should have a frost setting.
> 
> I don't think that you can set the frost setting below 5 degrees.
> 
> ...


Thanks for getting back to me on my question.

I think I may be okay. You can set the new touch control panel to any temperature above 0 Degrees C

As for power I can isolate most things other than the heater to prevent other drain. I have an 80 watt solar panel and 2 x 95ah batteries. So I might just make it. It would be good to think that some sort of heating kept the van above freezing.

Thanks again

Stewart


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

If you have an 80W solar panel and 2 x 95AH batteries then I guess you will be fine.
Interesting to learn that the new panels go down to 0 on the frost setting - the old ones only went to five

One little tip though to help save on power and gas - don't set the boiler temp to maximum - set it back a little lower. I learnt this the hard way - The Alde settings will keep cutting in and out if the temp is set on full, whereas if you set it a little lower then it doesn't cut in and out so often.


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