# is this a health and safety issue?



## weldted (May 1, 2005)

Hi all could this be a danger?? without going over the top I have a 2008 Bessacar e765p and have had the new habitation door fitted at Swifts Factory March this year. Whilst away in October the internal door catch failed to open the door on stripping it down I found that the pin that the handle pivots on had worked loose and slid out of one end of the plastic moulded bracket allowing it to twist and break. Whilst in itself not a major problem looking to the worst case if that had been someone trying to escape from the van in an emergency it could have delayed the exit from the van. Having spoken to a couple of Autotrial owners they have had the same problem. I have sent photos of the broken bracket to Swift but am still waiting for a new bracket having been told they are no longer available??


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## baldybazza (Feb 21, 2007)

Hi Weldted,

We have an Autotrail and have had the same problem - TWICE! The handle and linkage were replaced once after breaking in France meaning the only way of exiting the van was by sliding down the window in the door and using the outside handle - for three months!

Just before heading off for Spain and Morocco it broke again so back to the above method for a further five weeks! These doors really are rubbish, they are far too flimsily made and need replacing PDQ.It's due to be repaired again when the van goes back to Autotrail in February for another issue so let's hope this one lasts.

Barrie


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

If you consider this a major safety issue, you should persue it. Think how you would feel if someone died as a result of being trapped in their van.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Fire is my big fear in life.

I would be VERY uncomfortable if I thought my escape route was blocked.

How could you possible go to sleep at night in a mh with an exit door that wouldn't open easily?

I shudder at the thought.

If it were me I would put lots and lots of pressure on the company that sold this life threatening piece of equipment - absolute top priority for them to fix - don't be fobbed off with pathetic stories of "out of stock" - that's their problem, not yours - give 'em stick - and then give 'em some more.

Do you have children sleeping in there too???


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## Marilyn (Nov 5, 2009)

What tonyt said.

This is a terribly dangerous fault and the manufacturers should surely have recalled the models with the fault for a free replacement, shouldn't they?
Why haven't they?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Have you thought to email Swift direct.possibly with photo.

cabby


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## Carper (Aug 15, 2007)

tonyt said:


> Fire is my big fear in life.
> 
> I would be VERY uncomfortable if I thought my escape route was blocked.
> 
> ...


Ditto

There is no way that i would sleep in a MH with a door that cannot be opened easily.

I find it hard to believe that people take such risks for a "holiday"

Doug


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Without detracting from the original post, there are two other doors to exit from, passenger and drivers doors.

Yes the habitation door needs fixing and should not fail, but these are a bought in item and fitted to many other makes of motorhomes not just Swift Group.

Peter


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Yes the habitation door needs fixing and should not fail, but these are a bought in item and fitted to many other makes of motorhomes not just Swift Group.
> 
> Peter


Peter - I'm afraid your response here just confirms the attitude often adopted by businesses, not just mh manufacturers. "Don't blame us, we only buy it in from someone else"

That just isn't good enough - if the manufacturer chooses to buy in poor quality components then he must expect them to fail and be prepared to do whatever is necessary to honour the sale he's made to his customer. Telling him that a particular part is no longer available on a 2008 model is pathetic. It may well be true but don't leave it there - find an alternative way to resolve YOUR customer's problem

Wake up guys - you've got his money in your bank account now get off your bums and give the man the service he's already paid for not excuses why you can't.

Not aimed at Swift but at retailers in general and at Joe Public for being too tolerant.

Merry Christmas


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*safety is first*

In reply to John Cross,s comments This van has a rear bed layout, worst case situation fire at front say from dashboard early hours of the morning pitch black first line of escape out the habitation door, lock breaks!! it is easy in the cold light of day to suggest other means of escape windows roof vents etc not quite the same in real life. This is not meant as a drama but a valid concern of a (possible) event.


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## Marilyn (Nov 5, 2009)

I am a bit dismayed at JohnCrossMotorhomes' response.

Firstly, it is totally irrelevant that there are (possibly) two other exits. The fact is that the habitation door 
*IS* the exit for the 'caravan' part of a motorhome *and it SHOULD work.*

Secondly, in some vans (mine included) the 'squeeze' gap under the Luton is very narrow and takes a bit of getting through if you're a bit, ahem, 'on the bonny side', as I am. Trying to get the two or three of us through quickly in an emergency would not be fun! We would then need to 'unsecure' the cab doors before we could get out of them. Those lost vital seconds could cost a life, or three. Not funny at all! And certainly not something a manufacturer should put forward as a viable alternative for a non-working habitation door.

tonyt makes a valid point: Joe Public *is* too tolerant. 
I am so guilty of this myself - 'don't make a fuss' seems to be my mantra throughout life but it's wrong! We *should* make a fuss when it's something as important as this.

Marilyn


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Don't most motorhomes have deadlocks on the cab doors in any case? You'd have to find your keys or have the presence of mind to press the unlock button on dash to get them open.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> I am a bit dismayed at JohnCrossMotorhomes' response.


You'll get used to it Marilyn when you've been on here a while. The Opening Post contains the word "Swift" in the context of someone who isn't happy with the vehicle.,

The JCM response is a knee-jerk ultra- defensive (but unnecessary) reaction to anyone who dares use the "S" word in conjunction with the "C" word (Complaint)

In fact I'm quite surprised that a) the OP (and those who support the point made) hasn't yet been accused of being "anti-Swift" and b) others of the "ultra defensive" propensity haven't come on to declare their undying love for the Make :wink: :lol:


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

I have generally been a staunch supporter of Swift Group, and still am. I have recorded my pleasure with the vehicles several times on MHF.

However, I think the door locking mechanism on our vehicle is very shoddy, and Heath Robinson.
Not something that should be fitted to a motor vehicle in my opinion, and one I wouldn't want on a static van for that matter.

I agree with the comments and concerns regarding safety and evacuation in the event of a fire.

I'm not going to knock any other comments on this thread, but I deem it a reasonable expectation to have a habitation door that functions correctly and safely without having to chase it up myself.

The issues with habitation doors are well documented, and appear to have affected enough owners to establish a requirment to replace with a better design rather than adjustments and repairs.

I would just add that in the event that someone is injured (or worse), and that it can be attributed to faults in design, manufacture, selection and installation of the door, then all complicit parties will be exposed to possible statutory action that could include imprisonment, loss of business, etc (I don't think this is OTT, but a real possibility).
That would surely include manufacturers, installers, trade buyers (converters), and dealers.

I know what I'd rather do.

O


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Without detracting from the original post*, there are two other doors to exit from, passenger and drivers doors.

*Yes the habitation door needs fixing and should not fail,* but these are a bought in item and fitted to many other makes of motorhomes not just Swift Group.

Peter

I am not condoning any faulty components, merely stating a fact that many other motorhomes have these doors fitted but of course dear old Tel has to get his usual comments in about Swift and me.

Perhaps it should have read ' in the case of emergency there are two other doors to exit from, passenger and drivers doors.


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## Marilyn (Nov 5, 2009)

I hadn't really taken much notice of the fact that is was specifically Swift motorhomes - just horrified that it happens at all in any make so I'm definitely not knocking one particular manufacturer. 

I still say that the cab door(s) are irrelevant - the habitation door should and must work reliably. 

If they are a bought in item from another manufacturer then why can't Swift swap manufacturers (or threaten to); surely they are big enough to make that a real worry for the door manufacturer. 

Presumably, if the door manufacturer supplies other MH makers there must be other MHs with the same problem, not just Swift. What are these other makes/models? What are their makers doing about it?


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

To put things in perspective :-
How many doors does your van have?
How many windows are big enough to get out of in an emergency.

And when push comes to shove most vans will open up with a good kick.

C.


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

In reply to Clive's post we only have 2 doors in our Rapido and to be honest the habitation door is a bit michael the mouse, not a sturdy item at all.
I could but would not fancy bailing out of a side window in the middle of the night nor can I imagine shoving the wife out without her breaking her neck !
Chris


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

My business manufactures windows & doors. The quality of the components in ALL the motorhomes I've seen (including my much loved Ci) are dreadful. As Clive says a good shove would get through them all. We were in Tewksbury CC this summer and I opened a chaps broken caravan door (at his request) with a swiss army knife.
Any H&S manufacturted fault should be reported to the manufacturer & I'd want to know they'd taken it very seriously.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

If you have an electrical fire the cab deadlocks may not release. 
Some motorhomers are older and have disabilities that may mean that the habitational door is their only option for escape.


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## metblue (Oct 9, 2006)

*habitation door*

Hi to all ,I agree with the original poster and also with the last post from Peter.This is not a new problem and neither is is down to any one manufacturer. At the end of 2007 it happened twice to our Swift Kontiki 669.Then the next year it also happened to our Autotrail Arapaho again twice.
All occasions it happened in Spain on holidays,contacted both firms and both replied,"it is a design fault which is being investigated"
I then made an aluminium replacement which worked fine.but as both my wife and I are disabled it was really worrying and i find it totally disgraceful that nearly three years on it has not been resolved.
As a previous posters said,does a life have to be lost before this fault is rectified.
Re the last poster clivemot ,can you open and get out of the rear windows and drop five feet to escape ? if yes then you lucky.thing are meant to work properly and I sincerely hope that it does not ever happen to you.Please remember where Your doors/windows are for future use.
Over to you Swift and Autotrail.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Not making any excuses whatsover but the habitation doors have been changed to the better on later models I notice.

One of the major problems with leisure vehicles is weight and it would seem thar everyone is trying to reduce the weight of fitted items although a sturdier lock mechanism should not add that much to bother about!

Peter


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## metblue (Oct 9, 2006)

*doors*

Hi ,i have just read peters response to all of this and like the manufacturers his response is pathetic.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: doors*



metblue said:


> Hi ,i have just read peters response to all of this and like the manufacturers his response is pathetic.


*Not making any excuses whatsover but the habitation doors have been changed to the better on later models I notice. *

One of the major problems with leisure vehicles is weight and it would seem that everyone is trying to reduce the weight of fitted items *although a sturdier lock mechanism should not add that much to bother about*!

----------------------------​
And what is pathetic about that, might I ask. I have clearly stated a sturdier lock should not be a problem, I don't make the things.

Peter


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Peter

I don't think your posts have done much to enhance the image of motorhome dealers - I wouls stop digging if I were you.


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## tincan (Jul 31, 2006)

I've been missing from the forum for a while now and thought I'd check in and see what's happening around the "festive" season. First thing I've noticed is the anger expressed in some threads, particularly this one and am disappointed to find this. Finding good people to respond to techie queries is difficult enough without pi$$ing them off with mindless criticisms. Keep up the good work Peter and dont let the ba$tards grind you down. I have never met Peter or dealt with his company but have availed of his knowledge over my time on the forum

Noel


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

CliveMott said:


> To put things in perspective :-
> How many doors does your van have?
> How many windows are big enough to get out of in an emergency.
> 
> ...


Clive, what you say is true, BUT, have you ever tried to escape from a fire? When a place is full of smoke, thats the first thing, not fire, panic sets in, your disorientated, your not able to think straight so it's essential that you escape route is not blocked. A close college of mine die in a fire from smoke inhalation, they found him at the front door. He had tried to unlock it, something he must have done hundreds of times, but sadly failed

Wobby


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