# I could have been killed or killed others



## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

Had the van in today for a Major service at a very well known National service centre, on my way back home after travelling approximately 20 miles, travelling slowly up one of the only steep hills between the garage and home I heard a loud bang, on inspection the near side rear wheel was only half on with all the bolts missing, I walked back 20 metres and all 4 bolts where lying in the road where I had first heard the bang, 2 of the front near side nuts were only finger tight.

After ringing the service centre, a manager + mechanic arrived and managed to refit the wheel and have taken the van back to the garage for a full inspection for damage
There initial conclusions were that the wheel (wheels) had not been located properly on the locating pins/ poles on the hub, which left a gap allowing the wheel to vibrate the nuts loose

The manager confirmed that a full inspection will be done and any damage would be repaired by a Fiat dealer, and he would offer me something for any out of pocket expenses.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Charlie


.


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## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

i would say thats a good response to a bad bit of workmanship just make sure they replace at least the studs and nuts for the wheel and also the rim as these would of been damaged .
trouble is these days techs/mechanics are air gun happy and just buzz wheels on and don't check them with a torque whrench afterwards and some times it goes wrong just depends on who with and what extent 

terry


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

downright sloppy, and as you say, dangerous.

You would expect them to do a comparatively simple task without fowling it up & endangering lives :evil:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Sacked*

I know an new Apprentice who got sacked for not tightening wheel nuts. In my opinion it was not his fault, should have been checked by someone else.

TM


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

WOW Charlie! A close call indeed! Someone needs taking to task because sheer negligence has clearly been involved and must not be allowed to happen again.

In July, 1999, it was a Friday, I had a puncture on the M6, near Carlisle. Green Flag gent referred me to a tyre station where I had 2 new tyres fitted to rear wheels.

2,000 miles later, in France, I nearly lost one of the wheels with the new tyre. I do recall that, during the refitting of the newly clad wheels in Carlisle, the fitter was interrupted and engaged in conversation for several minutes. The next thing I saw was the hub-caps being fitted. I don't recall seeing the wheels being tightened or torqued.

At some stage during your visit, someone did not do their job properly. :evil:


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Clearly no excuse for bad workmanship, but I now check wheel nuts myself rather than relying on a garage. Having said that, I trust the private HGV garage that I use to do a thorough job - I'm thinking more of the big names and tyre fitters.

A couple of years ago, I had new tyres on my Subaru and about three weeks later, I heard a clicking noise when cornering. It turned out to be the rear wheel nuts that were loose. Thinking back, I could remember an incident where the tyre fitter was distracted.

Now, I carry a decent torque wrench in the motorhome to do up the nuts and a big breaker bar to get them undone. At 190Nm of torque, it is just not realistic to do the job with the kind of wrench that is supplied.

Final thought - I have always been advised to check the tightness of my nuts soon after 50-100 miles, when the wheels have been off. So I guess it's a good idea to carry the kit with you to be able to do it.

Philip


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Scary*

My proper job was amongst other things teaching Tightening Technique and supplying the gear to assemble the products be they motor cars, trucks, aeroplanes or washing machines.

Wheel nuts are a safety critical fastener and as such should never be final tightened with an Impact Wrench. It is doubtfull if the average garage poseses the Torque or Torque and Angle Power Tooling required they should therefore use a hand torque wrench which has been properly calibrated, or torque/ torque angle monitoring equipment attached to a hand wrench the fasteners should also be sequence tightened.

When our vehicles are assembled in the factory the wheels are fitted and fastened with Multispindle Nutrunners which will measure Torque/Angle and they count/chheck the number of fasteners.

People have been killed by loose truck wheels but thats another story.

Steve


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

You can never trust them to inflte tyres properly either. My local garage sent me on my way in the motorhome with tyres inflated to 28psi as opposed to around 70 psi. 
Also to my shame I ruined a pair of new tyres on a works vehicle as the tyre fitter over inflated them. I'm supposed to check pressure weekly but didn't and they were needing replaced a couple of months later.


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## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

i think all garages have to have torque wrenches and they all have to be calibrated to get iso certified 
where i work we all have torque wrenches etc and they all have to be checked every 6 months but it does not mean that people use them to do wheels up or check the wheels properly after doing them up with air guns which should not be used to put wheels on with but gets done quite alot 
merc sprinters are the worse they do come loose after being torqued up after about 60 + miles so need rechecking


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## teifiprt (Oct 2, 2007)

I would take it to another garage to be inspected. Could you trust them to tell you of any damage they had inflicted on your motorhome.
Also have a word with the legal department of the AA or RAC, what has happened to you is very serious. When peoples lives are at risk you need to know that mechanics are competent.

HTH,
Peter.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

teifiprt said:


> I would take it to another garage to be inspected. Could you trust them to tell you of any damage they had inflicted on your motorhome. Also have a word with the legal department of the AA or RAC, what has happened to you is very serious


What would "having a word" with a legal department achieve? Surely the fact that it undeniably happened due to an error with potentially serious consequences, will ensure that the garage owner will take steps to kick ass, or better still, have had a wake-up call and tighten up his business's safety procedures?

It would be a rare thing indeed for a garage to not bother about this incident, and will no doubt be just as grateful as the OP that no-one was injured.

Dougie.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

A bit like the BP fiasco.
Something goes wrong, not on purpose and everyone wants to shout, get legal, see heads roll etc.

Very serious and you will not be the last.
I always check wheel nuts atafter 50 miles after wheels have been removed.
Glad no one was hurt.

dave p


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> A bit like the BP fiasco. Something goes wrong, not on purpose and everyone wants to shout, get legal, see heads roll etc.


Exactly! Not a good thing to happen, but just deal with it (as I think the OP has). :roll:

Dougie.


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

The mechanic that came out was the guy who had done the service, he looked in his early fifty's, he said he had fastened the nuts with a Torque wrench, and can only surmise that because the wheel had not located properly he was actually tightening up to the locating pines/poles leaving a gap between the hub and the wheel.

The manager also commented on the fact that Ducatos are not the most common of vehicles they have in for service

I was still shocked a good why'll after it happened I can tell you.

Charlie


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Chascass said:


> I was still shocked a good why'll after it happened I can tell you.


Indeed - not nice at all. So long as you feel the guy & his boss are being straight with you about their mistake, you can probably be assured they'll have had a shock too.

Dougie.


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

asprn said:


> Chascass said:
> 
> 
> > I was still shocked a good why'll after it happened I can tell you.
> ...


I saw, and had to deal with to many c**k ups in the construction industry to get to excited over genuine mistakes, my first impression of them are that they where as shocked as I was, especially the mechanic.

I will know how genuine they are when they ring back with the condition of the van after having time to think about it.

Charlie


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

*Re: Scary*



pneumatician said:


> My proper job was amongst other things teaching Tightening Technique and supplying the gear to assemble the products be they motor cars, trucks, aeroplanes or washing machines.
> 
> Wheel nuts are a safety critical fastener and as such should never be final tightened with an Impact Wrench. It is doubtfull if the average garage poseses the Torque or Torque and Angle Power Tooling required they should therefore use a hand torque wrench which has been properly calibrated, or torque/ torque angle monitoring equipment attached to a hand wrench the fasteners should also be sequence tightened.
> 
> ...


For my education a few questions

1 Am i right in assuming the reference to an Impact Wrench is the same as an 'air gun'

2 Can these tools be pre-set to different torque settings.

3 Do different vehicles require different torque settings or are the settings standard because of the torque tolerances of the threads. D0 larger (diameter and length) threads of the same steel spec accept a higher torque as the load is spread over a larger area of thread?

4 If there are different torques for the nuts on different vehicles then

a) Do most tyre fitters and mechanics look up the appropriate setting and set the Impact wrench accordingly?

b) Where will I find the appropriate setting for my base vehicle? Not the Owner's Handbook which just says 'tighten the 5 wheel nuts'. Do Haynes Manuals carry the info?

Sorry for all Qs but I am interested and it is important for all of us to know.

Any answers 'pneumatics' or anyone else?

Tks in advance

Geoff


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## poleman (Aug 31, 2008)

The view from the technician is that these days you are required to undertake every task within manufacturers workshop times and are generally expected to know every thing about every vehicle from memory or experience. Every one makes a mistake and when peoples lives depend on your mistakes it does not mean you take this resposibility lightly. 

Having removed and re-fitted many hundreds of Sprinter wheel bolts and torqued them to 180NM I've never seen any come loose. Yes we buzz them up with air guns but set low enough to finally tighten them diagonally with the torque wrench. You will find with any commercial wheel the driver is responsible for its security after its been refitted and the vehicle handed back to the driver. Any corrosion on the bolt threads will reduce the tightness of the bolt and could result in the wheel coming loose so wire brushing and light lubrication is wise.


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi. 
When i started out,there were r/hand threads and l/hand threads for wheel nuts. The trouble today seems to be mainly with n/side wheels coming lose these threads are now r/hand (tightening against the role of the wheel) instead of l/hand,could this be a factor? as well as the nuts in this case apparently not tightened properly.
Due to new designs,you cannot tighten wheel nuts until your knuckles bleed,so you MUST use a torque wrench,and as nice as wheel trims are to look at,they hide a multitude of sins,as said before after any interference whith a wheel,check after 50 miles,and as i dont want ANYTHING passing me (In hot pursuit module),i would be mortified to see one of my own wheels. Remember out there,it takes 20 mins to check wheel nuts and tyre pressures,as against total loss of your unit. 
Gearjammer

Poleman. At one time the tyre fitters used to take the mileage,write it on a sticker,and stick it on the Tacho,withe the words " Wheel nuts must be rechecked after 50 miles.


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

The Service centre rang back yesterday morning to say they are going to replace the hub assembly as some of the threads have been damaged and will have the damage to the inside of the alloy repaired by a specialist, my comment to this was I would require a guarantee from the specialist for the repair.
All the other wheels had been removed and inspected, and replaced to make sure they had been fitted properly.

Later in the day they rang back to say they would now be replacing the alloy rim, I can only assume the specialist would not give the guarantee I asked for, now comes the problem of finding a matching alloy as the place I bought them from is not now trading.

Charlie


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Chascass said:


> now comes the problem of finding a matching alloy as the place I bought them from is not now trading.
> 
> Charlie


Looks like a full new set then, that'll teach them to check each others work.

Yes mistakes do happen, but this one should have been avoided, we need to check our own work, and that of others when safety is involved.


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

I don't thing so, the alloys are only 1 year old and a recognised brand, the only problem will be the length of time it might take to source the new rim and have the van returned to me.

Charlie


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