# Gas connections - Jubilee or 'O'clips???



## Empgamer (Apr 1, 2007)

We have to fit some new hoses to our gas bottle regulators. The old one is perishing and seems to have been fitted to the regulators using 'O' clips. When we bought the new hose the guy said jubilees would be fine. Anyone know if this is right or should we really use 'O' clips.

Thanks

Emp


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## kijana (May 1, 2005)

Jubilee clips work fine for me. Make sure you get ones the right size, and use two with the screws on opposite sides. Test with soapy water if you're uncertain.

Bruce


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

All "rubber" gas hoses have a date on them (or should have).

The white ones from camping Gaz have a date beyond which they should not be used and the black ones have a date of manufacture. The latter should not be used X years after the date of manufacture.

Any ideas what is the value of X?


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Jubilee clips*

:? 
could it be the Roman numeral for 10 ?

saluti,
eddied


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## Don-Tucker (Sep 10, 2006)

We allways used O clips when I was working as they grip more evenly around the pipe without the big lump of the worm as on jubillee clips,especially on small diameters.But not everyone has the pinching tool required for fixing.
Hope that helps
Don


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## Empgamer (Apr 1, 2007)

Yes thanks. We've used the jubilees and got them on OK. We have no crimping tool and the last O rings were a pain to get off.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi all, The value of X is :- If the hose is black & marked BS 3212/1 it is 2 years, if the hose is orange & marked BS 3212/2 then it is 5 years. Please also note that the black hose is NOT suitable for Propane although OK for Butane, Steve


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

We use the 'fuel line' type jubilee clip it has better 'waist band' for total grip. :lol: 
Texas


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

sergeant said:


> Hi all, The value of X is :- If the hose is black & marked BS 3121/1 it is 2 years, if the hose is orange & marked BS 3121/2 then it is 5 years. Please also note that the black hose is NOT suitable for Propane although OK for Butane, Steve


Not sure about that. I use black with propane.

Some dealers think that you use the orange pipe with propane because it is marked 'high pressure', for use with the 37mb regulators instead of the 28mb butane regulators.

The reason this orange pipe is marked high pressure because it is capable of carrying the pressure of the gas at full bottle pressure (ie connecting a bottle to a wall mounted regulator or for device that does not require one (eg blow torch).

The difference between 28 and 37mb is diddly squit in terms of the black rubber pipe.

On narrow boats, propane bottles are connected to wall mounted changeover regulators with orange hose (and jubilee clips are acceptable)

This is how i understand it.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Krull, The reason black hose is not suitable for Propane is that lock up pressure on a 37mbar regulator is a max of 52mbar & part 1 hose (black) is only certified to 50mbar & therefore deemed unsafe & illegal for use with Propane, Steve


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## 103738 (Apr 4, 2007)

What about Camping Gas, its a mixture of Propane and Butane, 
Black or Orange?

Mikekillay


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Mikekillay, Camping Gaz is Butane not a mix & is regulated at 28 or 30mbar, Steve


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

sergeant said:


> Hi all, The value of X is :- If the hose is black & marked BS 3121/1 it is 2 years, if the hose is orange & marked BS 3121/2 then it is 5 years. Please also note that the black hose is NOT suitable for Propane although OK for Butane, Steve


Hi

Sorry, but I don't understand this post, my understanding is that LPG flexible rubber tubing is for propane or butane .. I've never seen tubing marked only butane, nor can I find a BS number relating to this.

Hoses manufactured in Europe have the date when the hose should be replaced stamped on the side. 
Those manufactured in this country are made to British Standard 3212 and are stamped with the date of manufacture.

It should be inspected regularly and replaced three years after the date indicated or earlier if it shows signs of cracking.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi ScotJimland, Sorry to be pedantic but my earlier post is what the regulations state as taught to me on all the LPG courses I have been on over the years & what my copy of the regulations say. Any time I give advice on LPG on here you can rely on it being correct as i am a professional & not just what i think it should be or what i have heard other people say, happy camping, Steve


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Steve 

I don't doubt you are trained 
Perhaps there is another hose to a different BS standard or are we talking at cross purposes ? 

Hose to BS 3212 is designed for LPG whether butane, propane or indeed a mix of both such as supplied at LPG filling stations, in varing mixes, accross Europe. 

There are pigtails for both butane and propane but this AFAIK it is the same hose with different connections. 

None of the suppliers I have checked make any reference to hose that is suitable only for butane..


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Lets put this into perspective:

28mb = 0.405psi
37mb = 0.537psi
52mb = 0.754psi

All of these pressures are minute and can be exceeded by a good puff of the lungs. Can you imagine blowing down a blocked black pipe and rupturing it with the pressure from your lungs?

I have a copy of BS EN 13121-1:2003 (as it is now ) at work. When I am back in I willl have a look to see what it actualy says. 

I am particularly interested in this because Camperlands once told me I would very likely blow myself up if black pipe for propane, and would only sell it to me if I agreed a disclaimer.

I have seen the black pipe used on unregulated systems on occasion. (ie 20bar?).Well dangerous.

The only reason initially suspected was with propane being the smaller molecule, leaching through the pipe wall.


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

Err! I thought it was black for butane and orange for propane, that's the colour code I've been using all these years....Oh and i thought the date displayed on the pipes were there to enable you to know when the 5 year recommended life was up, so you could renew them? 8O 

Just my 2 pennorth :lol:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Isn't there a danger that someone coming on to this thread could become confused!

I think it needs to be said clearly that we are not talking about the 'pigtail' that goes from the cylinder to the vehicle mounted 30mB regulator on modern systems here. 

Those pipes are high pressure and have special ferrules to make off the connections. 

Regards Frank


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

HI Frank, thanks for saying that you took the words right out of my mouth. ALL pigtails are high pressure as Propane is stored at a pressure between 7 & 11 BAR in its normal state, Steve


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

sergeant said:


> HI Frank, thanks for saying that you took the words right out of my mouth. ALL pigtails are high pressure as Propane is stored at a pressure between 7 & 11 BAR in its normal state, Steve


Thanks Frank and Steve.. now that this post has been clarified can we get clarification on my original question ..

We were talking about LP rubber hose .. as used after a regulator .. is there or is there not a 'butane only' hose and if so can someone please show me an example.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi ScotJIm, Yes , you need orange hose marked BS3212/2 as the black(BS3212/1) is only certified to 50mbar & Propane can at lock up pressure, legally go to 52mbar & therefore exceed the rated capacity. The black hose is the original one brought out in the early days when there was only Butane used in the leisure industry but as Propane entered the industry & is far more suitable for the modern vans they brought out the part 2 for use with the higher pressure in the Propane, hope this has cleared the muddy waters, Steve


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## 104684 (May 23, 2007)

*LPG Hose*

Please see this useful link to technical info on LPG used in motorhomes etc
http://www.bullfinch-gas.co.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=35

I work for a company making LPG hoses to BS3212/2 and BS3212/1

The type 2 hose is now used most commonly not just for pressure but also for low permeation, better weather and ozone resistance and resistance to mechanical damage due to the reiniforced layer. The black tube is cheaper but if mistakenly used for unregulated gas will probably burst. To confuse things further the main pigtail hoses (sold with swaged fittings for joining bottles) is to type 2 (high pressure) but is in Black colour.

The boat safety scheme will only certify gas appliances with BS3212/2 used on small craft

LPG hose produced in accordance with BS norm BS3212/2 which does not specify a useage life. From our experience with Calor they used to recommend five years before testing hoses or examining for signs of ageing.

In some applications especially indoor heaters etc the hose will show no wear even after 20 years.

Shelf life of these vulcanised hoses is controlled by the compounds used in production and are related to in British Standard BS3574:1989.

The hose is made from a Group B rubber. This has a max storage of 7 years before use and should then be tested before an extension of 3 years is allowed.

You will note that only storage is covered by this standard and not use. This is because storage can be controlled and must be so in the following areas:

Temperature:	15C - 25C and away from direct heat.
Humidity: Relative humidity less than 75%
Light: Protected from direct sunlight or intense artificial light.
Radiation: Keep hose away from ionzing radiation
Ozone: Kept away from any equipment that generates ozone.
Deformation:	Hose should be packed in a stress free way
Contact No contact to liquids (eg Fuel, Oil,, disinfectants)
No contact to most metals
No contact to different rubber compounds or colours

Use is impossible to control, as the environment is usually different in most cases where a hose is in use. In addition to adherence to the above guidelines we would recommend that hoses are visually inspected for any damage, degradation or ageing before use and replaced if there is any question as to their suitability. The black pigtail hose was originally designed for the outdoor use due to the high ozone resistant and fade proof materials available to use in a black compared to orange hose at the time.

Hope some of this helps you guys.

Big Cliff


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Big Cliff 

Thanks, good post, very informative.. ohh and welcome to MHFs


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

*Re: LPG Hose*



bigcliff said:


> Please see this useful link to technical info on LPG used in motorhomes etc
> http://www.bullfinch-gas.co.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=35
> 
> I work for a company making LPG hoses to BS3212/2 and BS3212/1 Big Cliff


Big Cliff.

Welcome to MotorhomeFacts and thank you for an extremely useful first post.
I hope you find equally useful information here on our forums for your own use.

If you are seeking information and help towards buying a motorhome you'll find many members here able and willing to help.
Just pose the questions.


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