# Return to dealer poll



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Following other threads on here, I would like to ask, IF you bought your motorhome from NEW, how many times has it been back to the dealer following the handover for faults to be rectified?

Gerald


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Interesting Poll, Gerald!

I took mine back once to Brownhills at Cannock for them to rectify damage done to my van whilst in stock before delivery.

It would bore everyone to death if I now described their attempt at customer service........

Since then, it has only been to the factory where it was built (for annual habitation and two year gas checks) and they have been fantastic - often sorting things I hadn't noticed, that they weren't happy about (under warranty of course). (and sorting the problems that Brownhills couldn't be bothered or able to fix) [edit]

All parts required have been available ex-stock at the factory, and there has never been a grumble from them about warranty items. I even got a new shower tray supplied after the original split (out of warranty) FOC.

David


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Twice with this CI, once with the Swift. The first CI was many many many times, but that was because it was Glossop Caravans who knew nothing about motorhomes.
With this CI, both trips were for new parts, which were fitted while I waited. The Swift had a new roof at the factory but no hassle, collected on time and delivered back within the agreed timescale.
Gerry


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Sounds like N&B have got their customer support act together, David. If only everyone were like this.

Gerald


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> Following other threads on here, I would like to ask, IF you bought your motorhome from NEW, how many times has it been back to the dealer following the handover for faults to be rectified?
> 
> Gerald


Hi Gerald

So far My Autocruise has been back to the dealer 3 times and is due to be off the road again for the fridge replacement next week

My dealer has been outstanding

On my Hymer bought new at Brownhills once but not for a build problem

Brownhills fitted the wrong pressure valve on my LPG system. Their after sales was horrific

On my Chausson not at all

On my FFB Mercedes never

On my last 4 Fendt caravans never

Wups


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## kazzzy (Apr 9, 2006)

N&B service has been second to none for me as well, when I have had contact with them they have been efficient and nothing is too much trouble same cant be said for the dealer though when I bought the van but I wont bore you with the details needless to say it was brownhills ! Fortunatly now the sole importer is travelworld and its good to see that so far they have been fantastic even up to the point where they have given me a pair of tickets for the NEC next week even though I didnt buy the van from them originally. Hopefully N&B in the UK will follow the exmaple set by the factory it certainly looks like it so far.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

geraldandannie said:


> Sounds like N&B have got their customer support act together, David. If only everyone were like this.
> 
> Gerald


Maybe I'm just lucky?

Its a real bummer though, having to travel all the way to Germany for a hab check - if i see that river Mosel again with all its brilliant stellplaetzen and fairy tale castles, it'll be too soon.

Bitte ein Bit anyone?

D


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Wupert said:


> So far My Autocruise has been back to the dealer 3 times and is due to be off the road again for the fridge replacement next week


Hi Wups

I didn't want it to be a manufacturer or even country-specific. But so far (from a grand total of 8 votes), 75% of respondees said that their motorhomes had to go back at least once for a fault to be rectified. Even allowing for the odd failure in use, that's still a huge percentage. Obviously, a sample of 8 does not necessarily represent the whole of the motorhome buying public :roll:

Makes yer think, though :?

Watching with interest ...

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Bought new February 2007 and it has been back to the dealer more times than I can remember and to Swift once. I have a record on the computer but it would take some time to go back through the massive file and collate it.

It still goes back to the dealer on a fairly regular basis and still has outstanding issues and they are not trivial.

I've not added in the times it has gone back to the Fiat dealers....

G


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

I have had two mh`s from new , returned to the the dealer once,but only when i was due a hab check.

Les


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## mondo33 (Feb 17, 2009)

My Autocruise Startrail has been back twice, 1st time for the screen in the washroom to be refitted,2nd time for the charging unit to be sorted,I was told it would be a 10 day wait that was on the 22nd of September,I rang them this morning and guess what still not arrived
So when it goes back for it fitting that will be 3 times for a £45K van...CAVEAT EMPTOR..yea right


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

I have put none but then again it was from Brownhills and they are rather difficult at accepting faults etc.


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Burstner 747G from new (2006) been back once after 18 months on the road, roof leak over stern end fixed bed area. Camper U K did a real good job in sorting the problem, even applied more mastic (the motorhome builders flexible friend :wink: )to the bow end roof seals.
Now in my opinion, one problem in three years is reasonable, but, and it is a big but, after reading all of the problems others have had on here, all makes , all sizes of vans included. I find myself a nervous wreck, just waiting for things to go wrong!  
Any chance of some well needed re-assurance from other end users?
Living in fear and trepidation
Tinhut.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

This van has been back to Geoff Cox for warranty work even though they did not sell us it, hows that for service!! We bought this van privately but as Geoff Cox supplied it originally they said they would do any warranty repairs. When we got van the shower tray was cracked which is soon to be replaced under warranty. Only other problem was a misting up window (on the inside).
Very happy with van and dealer.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Once to have a Fiamma turbo-vent replaced. Was in and out of Highbridge within 30 mins with a new unit fitted.

Well would have been 30 mins but OH found the accessory shop


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Repairs*

Interesting thread, Gerald.

Carol - you only go to the Geoff Cox dealers to see a certain young man that works there! LMAO

Russell


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Well-my burstner argos 747-2 has been back to the dealer so many times I've lost count. It has got be about Eight times i reckon and another five times to fiat. A 50 grand bucket of **** is what I have called it 8O most people just call them lemons, and a german one at that. It has taken the cream off of camping for us for sure with all the problems we have had. It's now just over two years old and we have just had our last problem fixed. 8O To be quite honest, I'm just waiting for the next one to happen-and it will.  

steve


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Repairs*



Rapide561 said:


> Carol - you only go to the Geoff Cox dealers to see a certain young man that works there! LMAO
> 
> Russell


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! 
Well he is gorgeous!!!!


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Chigman said:


> Well-my burstner argos 747-2 has been back to the dealer so many times I've lost count. It has got be about Eight times i reckon and another five times to fiat. A 50 grand bucket of **** is what I have called it 8O most people just call them lemons, and a german one at that. It has taken the cream off of camping for us for sure with all the problems we have had. It's now just over two years old and we have just had our last problem fixed. 8O To be quite honest, I'm just waiting for the next one to happen-and it will.
> 
> steve


This is outrageous Chigs and puts my complaints to Swift way down the list

The more we enlighten people on this site/board the more chance of some improvement.

We all deserve better Quality control and customer service

We have to name names

Wups


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Wupert said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> > Well-my burstner argos 747-2 has been back to the dealer so many times I've lost count. It has got be about Eight times i reckon and another five times to fiat. A 50 grand bucket of **** is what I have called it 8O most people just call them lemons, and a german one at that. It has taken the cream off of camping for us for sure with all the problems we have had. It's now just over two years old and we have just had our last problem fixed. 8O To be quite honest, I'm just waiting for the next one to happen-and it will.
> ...


I would just like to say though that it could of been a lot worse if it wasn't for Camper UK who are my dealers. They got things sorted as quick as they could and bent over backwards at times. They are a top outfit in my book.

steve


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## 127057 (Aug 18, 2009)

Very interesting poll

So far (fingers crossed) I have only had a fuse issue for the 12v sockets in the cab and only went back becuase they are down the road and i did't have the right fuses 

Hopefully that will be all


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

Previous euramobil first when I wound the 4m awning in and the whole thing come away from the van, but that was a dealer fitted awning. Second time water ingress which I found 2 months after brownhills done ingress check for warranty. PLus elec window on passenger side not working from new.
Current burstner been to fiat for usual water on injectors aircon not working from new. Burstner chip & small crack in screen on collection door retainer broke 3 catches to bathroom door extra leaf in rear springs
rubber used for mud flaps is c**p 2 rear sets fallen off last one fell off while parked on drive at home and dealer not interested in replacing 
plus a horrible creeking in roof to be looked at when hab check done.
One plus is no judder in reverse! (so far).
I must admit that the euramobil was far better build quality than the burstner.
Steve

So the british vans are not the only ones that have a few faults.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Chigman said:


> It has got be about Eight times
> steve


_Only 8 !_ In the last 2 and a bit years ours has been back so many times that we send it on it's own now. 

Like you we now wait for the next thing to go wrong. It had 4 weeks at Swift over Christmas and a new roof following a catastrophic leak. It's just been back for yet another major roof leak, said to be caused this time by a faulty seal on the roof light over the lounge.

Remember those nights when, tucked up warm in bed you listen with pleasure to the rain bucketting down ? Well, we don't any longer; we just wait for it to start cascading over the bed.

We had 2 Explorer Group vans prior to this and they only went back once, for a leaking tap.

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Chigman said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > Chigman said:
> ...


Hi Steve

The same applies in my case Lee & Turner can not be faulted.

Lets hope all gets sorted

Wups


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

One of the better polls, Gerald.

The Murvi has never been back in 4.5 years from new.

Dave


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> One of the better polls, Gerald.
> 
> The Murvi has never been back in 4.5 years from new.
> 
> Dave


I agree Dave

Its a top thread and posts like yours send such a positive feed back to the .....39000... potential customers

Well done Murvi

Wups


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I've just been through the files and can find 23 visits to dealers since March 2007.

We have owned the van for 132 weeks

The total time it has been away for repair is 21 weeks.

This is 15.7 % of it's life with us.

We are still not happy and have several issues.

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> > It has got be about Eight times
> ...


Keep the faith and chin up Grizzly

The build is clearly substandard the Quality Control has again failed

Its just not good enough that our pride and joy is sub standard

Swift do need to address the problems they have.

I am delighted that my thread about Swift has generated this one

Please please.... anyone who has problems with build and Customer care post dont be frightened to name names but be open and honest.

We have been fobbed off for far to long

This forum with its 39000 members can take on any dealer or manufacturer in a fair and honest way

There isn't a Goliath out there anymore

Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> I've just been through the files and can find 23 visits to dealers since March 2007.
> 
> We have owned the van for 132 weeks
> 
> ...


Sorry a PS

Have you been in touch with your local Trading Standards

They are very very good.

Wups


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> One of the better polls, Gerald.


Thanks, Dave (and others).

Like you, ours hasn't be back to the dealer (two years for us). Although the "0" voters are on the increase (30% as I write), a frightening 21% of vans have been back 5 times or more. Only 31% have been back to the dealer 1 time or less.

Not good reading 

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Wupert said:


> Keep the faith and chin up Grizzly
> Wups


We're rapidly losing faith ! We've tried to be terribly civilised about it all ( and keep our problems off the forum) but have got to the stage where we just want to to take someone by the throat.

If only _ every single_ problem didn't take such a long, long time to sort and generate such a huge number of phone calls and letters and angst.

I think our problem was that we bought a new model van on a new model chassis.

We like the van and have not found a layout that we prefer but we have lost faith in it and it makes using it less of a relaxation and pleasure than it should be. We did take it back to the dealer a couple of weeks ago and told him all this and asked what he would offer in PX but the offer was too low for us to consider it.

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> DABurleigh said:
> 
> 
> > One of the better polls, Gerald.
> ...


Our ex-Chausson never failed us either

Class thread this Gerald

Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > Keep the faith and chin up Grizzly
> ...


Contact Lee & Turner Motorhomes Bridgend

They did a super Deal for us recently and fantastic after sales

They are involved in the NEC next week so it may be a few days before you can speak to the sales guys

Wups


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## ed786 (Aug 16, 2006)

Our Rapido is our first M/H after a trial week's hire of a Swift in 2005 which was only ~ 6 months old. Our experiences with the Swift quality had a major influence on our decision to buy the Rapido and the decision has been justified repeatedly by reading members comments on MHF over past 3 years. We saw the Rapido range at Brownhills, Newark, where we were happy at the time with the Sales "presentation". However, luckily, we bought from Rapido, Wokingham, after seeing an advert in MMM with a good discount off the price of a new one with no part exchange. No return necessary which is just as well as it is a 200 mile trip!

Ed


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Depressing reading some of these replies, I think if I had had the problems some have suffered on here, I would be into another hobby/lifestyle by now.
At risk of sounding like a right smartar*se, NEVER buy a new model launch product, Iv'e been in commercial vehicle sales now for over 20 years, and time and time again the problems that stem from these new models is unbeilivable!
You would think in this day and age of C A D/C A M the product would hit the streets running, but truth be told, most manufactures don't know what they have got until the end user gets his hands on it. we then become the "Testpilots" for these companies!
I don't see it changing anytime soon, just stay away from new model ranges for at least 3/4 years.
Tinhuttraveler.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to vote and post.

After 65 replies, it's looking like a steady 50% of motorhomes go back once or not at all for fault rectification.

Which means that 50% of them go back twice or more times. And a staggering 23% of motorhomes have been back 5 or more times for faults to be rectified. Nearly a quarter! 8O 

I think it's about time the industry got its act together, and started telling us how they're going to improve this appalling statistic.

Gerald


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Tinhuttraveler said:


> At risk of sounding like a right smartar*se, NEVER buy a new model launch product, Iv'e been in commercial vehicle sales now for over 20 years, and time and time again the problems that stem from these new models is unbeilivable!
> 
> Tinhuttraveler.


Oh gawd where were you when I bought mine sob sob!!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Same place I was. Don't blame us if women don't listen.

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Despite all its vast number of problems - not all of them Swift ones- we have had many very happy holidays in the van all over Europe and the UK. We still think the layout is the best, the drive is great and we would not give up motorhoming.

We have been unlucky I think. The faults that occur are put right, so far ( until next March) under warranty but it all takes time,energy and is stressful. It is also expensive involving storage of our van contents while the van was with Swift for almost 2 months over Christmas plus countless trips back and forth to deliver and collect the van.

G


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> Same place I was. Don't blame us if women don't listen.
> 
> Dave


Your advice came *after* the purchase not before which is lets face it flippin useless, like most mens idea of advice...............................


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## mygalnme (Jul 12, 2009)

hear hear Steve, bought 2 new vans from Camper UK and only had to go back for minor things, apart from awning coming off but that was a manufacture fault...and they always give excellent service
M and T


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

crazyhead said:


> hear hear Steve, bought 2 new vans from Camper UK and only had to go back for minor things, apart from awning coming off but that was a manufacture fault...and they always give excellent service
> M and T


Awful stats here

It could be worth us naming our MH's manufacturers

Wups


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Wupert said:


> It could be worth us naming our MH's manufacturers


I think most of us have that information already underneath their name.

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > It could be worth us naming our MH's manufacturers
> ...


Not all though Grizz

It would be interesting to compare Continental to British

Wups


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Wupert said:


> Awful stats here


No argument from me.



Wupert said:


> It could be worth us naming our MH's manufacturers


I wondered about that, but the figures will always be skewed by the quantities sold - so there will be more problems from the manufacturers that sell the most (statistically).

The only way you could do it is to have a separate poll for each marque - so you could tell what _percentage_ of vans needed to be fixed.

Gerald


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > It could be worth us naming our MH's manufacturers
> ...


Sorry just realised what you are referring to

Please allow me one senior moment a day

My wife does

Thicko Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > Awful stats here
> ...


Fair comment

A close friend has a Neisman Bischoff after a horrific time wth Brownhills he now travels to Pusch?Germany to get any work done

Wups (enjoying a wee glass of red wine)


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

A very good thread Gerald.The responses have been surprising with all the faults recorded on new vans and the time taken to get them fixed.

It makes you wonder if it's better to buy a secondhand motorhome with some warranty left on it,at least then any major faults should have been repaired.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

How do you score it if the dealer sends someone to collect your MH then returns it back to you?

C.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Clive

I think it's the principle of the motorhome _needing_ to go back to the dealer to have something fixed _after the handover_. I'm just trying to gauge how many motorhomes get handed over with pre-existing faults. Going back to a dealer for a habitation service doesn't count (or the like).

Gerald


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

CliveMott said:


> How do you score it if the dealer sends someone to collect your MH then returns it back to you?
> 
> C.


 

Joking aside another useful stat would be time off the road.

One visit with 3 weeks off the road is bad news.

This time is not always the dealers fault

I'm still waiting for three items from Swift which are likely to take 28 days or more

Yet Thetford have supplied a new fridge in 5 days.


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## larrywatters (Aug 21, 2007)

having brought our swift bolero new form brownhills Newark on 
01 06 2009 :evil: never again will we buy from this company
or swift , and as soon as the work to repair the faults are complete ( if ever ) it will be sold and a German make in its place .

The list is endless, so no piont in going thought them
we had a tribby before no fault after 27000 mils


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

I did work out our time off the road whilst repairs & fixes were being carried out, and we came up with I think 3 months in total 8O 
Got compensation from burstner but we was no way happy witht the amount and had to swallow as I got a take it or leave it type email from them. 8O I could have taken it further but declined in favour of sanity.  It does wear you down in the end and I think some of the dealers and manufacturers realise this. :evil: 

steve


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## MHv2 (Jun 27, 2006)

I had to take mine back to Brownhills (Swindon) 3 times for them to properly fit things that were on the original order and rectify dealer faults. Even then things weren't done properly but I gave up and swore I'd never go there again and haven't.

The sadder thing is that the van is the most expensive vehicle I've ever bought. Brownhills after sales is completely nonexistent.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Our dealers take us seriously when we call with yet another problem but everything takes SUCH a LONG time. We usually make the running -ie phoning to ask if the parts are in and pestering to make sure the necessary orders are placed and suppliers contacted. We often have the feeling that if we did not do this nothing would happen. I imagine the service manager putting the phone down and saying " it's those blanketty people again".

I realise we are not their only customer but surely things should not run on for years as they do ? It can be very stressful. 

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

MHv2 said:


> I had to take mine back to Brownhills (Swindon) 3 times for them to properly fit things that were on the original order and rectify dealer faults. Even then things weren't done properly but I gave up and swore I'd never go there again and haven't.
> 
> The sadder thing is that the van is the most expensive vehicle I've ever bought. Brownhills after sales is completely nonexistent.


Had the exactly the same trouble with the Brownhills fitted extras and after-sales.

Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Our dealers take us seriously when we call with yet another problem but everything takes SUCH a LONG time.
> 
> G


Out of interest Grizz my repair body shop manager who do a huge amount of caravan/MH work explained the Swift Autocruise part ordering system

Repairer Identifies parts required

Info sent to Swifts parts who check to see if dealer has got the correct description(Swift have not given dealers Autocruise part numbers yet!!!!)

Swifts send part numbers to dealer.

Dealer checks to see if things match his initial description.

If yes Dealer now has to resubmit order using the part numbers.

If parts in stock!!! Swift will send parts to dealer.

Pretty efficient set up that.

I'm told this applies to Autocruise as Swifts dont have the supply system part no's etc on their computer yet!!!!!

Maybe Swift can confirm or deny this.

It is still looking like 28 days for my replacements

Some plastic trim

A side marker

A finishing button.

Wups


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

So!....not really a survey...more like another complaints and moans thread......what a pity, haven't we heard enough?

The 'survey' was a really good and useful idea.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

EJB said:


> So!....not really a survey...more like another complaints and moans thread......what a pity, haven't we heard enough?
> 
> The 'survey' was a really good and useful idea.


It certainly is a good survey

One is surely allowed to raise what the problems were.

Wups


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes. I had a chat with nuke this morning about customer surveys. It is a winter project of his but I offered MHF's equivalent of JD Power as a good vision to have. Survey design needs as much care as the functionality in order to be inclusive and unbiased (especially scale independent), but once one can separate out base vehicle from conversion issues by brand/ country, the ability for members to make truly informed decisions and manufactures/ dealers to get comparative feedback direct from customers would be a major step forward. 

Oh, and those in the motorhome business will be able to run but not hide 

Dave


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Interesting idea, Dave.

The problem for 'other Dave' is to get the survey results to be truly objective, and not subjective. The "times back to the dealer" is pretty good, because it's a number, and that number (mostly) will show how well the motorhome was put together / reliable it is.

But even this is not perfect. Some might think that a return to the dealer, which is half a mile down the road, to change a locker handle wasn't worth recording. And each of us has a differing threshold for 'problem', and some of us would fix the problem where others with the same problem would trundle it back to the dealer.

And yes, it would be nice to be able to extract from the expanded survey country of manufacture and convertor.

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

EJB said:


> So!....not really a survey...more like another complaints and moans thread......what a pity, haven't we heard enough?
> .


My apologies; I shall go back to my quiescent state and not complain any more in public. In my defence however I have added the necessary statistics to support my moan and, I wish to put it on record, that all our returns have been for problems that we have been unable to resolve. We have done a lot of work on our own where we have been able to but re-roofing and replacing components is not in our brief.

G


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> EJB said:
> 
> 
> > So!....not really a survey...more like another complaints and moans thread......what a pity, haven't we heard enough?
> ...


Well said that man  

This poll is very good

I also think it is very important that we, if we wish, explain the faults and how they were or were not dealt with.

Some have posted they had no faults this is also useful and important

With this information future purchasers are helped in their final decisions and choices.

Wups


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