# DIY Winterisation



## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Hubby is thinking of insulating the external pipework and external tanks etc on our Bessacarr to try and prevent possible frost damage.

Has anyone who has carried out similar projects on their vans got any hints/tips or photos they can share with us?

We won't be using the van abroad in ski resorts or anything like that, just in Scotland (which has probably been as cold recently!).

Thanks


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Unless the tank is heated you would be only slowing down the freezing of tank and pipes.

Even a fully winterised van will freeze if left unheated.


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

Jezport said:


> Unless the tank is heated you would be only slowing down the freezing of tank and pipes.
> Even a fully winterised van will freeze if left unheated.


Does this mean that everyone who doesn't have a heater in their tank suffers from frozen bits when using their van in the winter?


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

we had an exposed pipe behind the house that froze regular. The other week I used pipe wrap, the foam type and then plastic over the top. Even in the -10 last week we woke up to running water.

Are the pipes on your van inside or out of the van?

stew


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Hezbez said:


> Jezport said:
> 
> 
> > Unless the tank is heated you would be only slowing down the freezing of tank and pipes.
> ...


If you have external tanks then if the temperature drops below freezing point yes.

Our tanks are within the double floor and the blown air ducts keep them warm, all the waste pipes are also within the floor and heated. Unfortunatly it isn't as simple as just insulating things.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Safest option is to go back to your camping days.

Bring a water container inside and don't use the built in tanks or pipework.

Boil kettles for washing and washing up.

Leave the waste water tank valve open and drain straight into a bucket. The water in the bucket will freeze solid, but you can dump the ice block under a hedge or on a drain.

Primitive and challenging, but very satisfying when you have beaten Mother Nature!


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

I think the rule of thumb has to be where ever you install anything, that area will never fall below freezing when the van is in use, even the small amount of pipe work that has to be external to drain down would have to be protected. 

Charlie


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

As had been said insulating underslung tanks and pipes only slows down the freezing (and thawing out) processes. Grey water tanks are best left with taps open with a bucket underneath. You can remove frozen grey water from a bucket as it has tapered sides.

My suggestion for fresh water for winter is to sacrifice the bottom of your wardrobe and put one of those rectangular 25 litre water carriers in it. Pop a Whale submersible pump in through the filler and do a tidy but temporary plumbing job with food grade plastic hose to connect in place of the normal pump. Similarly with the wiring. You may need to mount a convienient ON/OFF switch for the pump in the kitchen. But this way if you are warm then so is your plumbing. Have a spare carrier full of water ready under a bunk if you wish.

C.


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## rupert1 (Feb 13, 2009)

You do not say what year your van is or what model. I have a 2008 Swift and if yours is a late model would think the tank setup is similar. Mine already has insulated tanks and you can get a winter kit fitted which consists of tank heater, insulated pipes and fridge covers. I just have the fresh water tank heater and insulted pipes, this has been fine down to about -5. Unless you plan on winter in the alps this setup, with a little care is fine for the bit of winter use we require of it. Unless you spend a lot of time in hard winter conditions a fully winterised van is a pure waste of money.


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

rupert1 said:


> Unless you spend a lot of time in hard winter conditions a fully winterised van is a pure waste of money.


Hi, sorry don't think I would agree with that. 8O Had a Swift and spent 2 + years in cold and frozen conditions, pipes frozen waste tank frozen, even leaving the drain tap open unless we took the big cap off the bottom it still had over 1" of water in it, which froze solid then built up over the outlet pipe. :roll:

The only way to have a van that's fully winterised is buy one. 

It all starts with a double floor, and everything in it.  Bob.


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## AutoMax (Sep 23, 2008)

"The only way to have a van that's fully winterised is buy one. 

It all starts with a double floor, and everything in it. Bob."

Not always, having met a couple of vans recently with heated double floor heating, it did not save them from having freezing pipes whilst driving along due to wind chill entering service points and fridge vents.
Layout is everything to van owners and who of us give any thought to where the pipes and cables in our vans run prior to purchasing them.
Whilst I agree with all Clive has written, I feel the biggest question is, when, where, how am I going to use the van, and then deal with the answer in the way you winterise your van.
Yes you can put tank heaters and lagging in, but unless you are on hook up and have the ability to keep them on all the time, you will freeze if any of your pipework or tank is outside as soon as you drive off due to windchill.
The only way is to completely re-pipe you van to suit the situations you are travelling in, don't think that the manufactures actually give any thought to where the pipes go when they build them. My van has an underslung tank just behind the back axle, the insulation is no more than a 4mm badly fitted mat. Even though immediately above the tank is a double floor that the air ducts run though, they choose to take the water from the tank via a stub on the bottom of the tank, run the pipe along the underneath and then up into a wardrobe. This pipe freezes as soon as you move, rendering the whole system useless.
I am currently in the process of designing a system that is capable of being used all year round, no matter what the temperature is. I am lucky that having a webasto fitted I have an excess of heat. I redesigned the whole heating duct system to suit the heater after it had been badly fitted by the installers. Even with the vent only cracked open a small amount there is enough heat in the garage to sleep in there.
All water pipes will be brought inside the van and lagged with top quality lagging, if possible they will run next to the heater ducting. Two 10 gallon tanks in insulated boxes will be fitted to the front garage wall and they existing heater duct will be split to provide hot air to the boxes. The take off pipe will run alongside the duct into the existing location of the water pump where a 3 way valve will enable me to use either summer or winter water options, or when am on a site, double up the water capacity.
The waste tank will be fitted with a heater right next to the outlet, uninsulated as it as best said left open.
Having spent 4 weeks up in the Artic Circle and recently in Cologne where water froze I am not prepared to have a van that I cant use, when and where I want to use it. It may cost a couple of hundred pounds to convert this to my needs but it beats the cost of changing the van.
I may add, that this will be a solution to me, it may not suit everyone and if I take my van back into - 45.9 c temperatures it may not work. At least I can drive to warmer climes.
Bob


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## rupert1 (Feb 13, 2009)

bobandjane said:


> rupert1 said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you spend a lot of time in hard winter conditions a fully winterised van is a pure waste of money.
> ...


Suggest you go back and read my post again, this time properly. I never at any point suggested you could fully winterise a van, also said 'unless you spend your time in hard winter conditions' which are the conditions you are describing..


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

It will be interesting to see how our self build performs over the New Year. We did put all water pipes other than waste outlets inside the van. I also put blow air heater outlet so one pipe ran along side the water tank. All the water pipes were insulated.

stew


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## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Stew, I would say your van will be a lot better insulated than some of the vans they turn out, and you living in a winterised van had some idea when you designed it.  I know there is a lot of thought goes into it to get it right, and its a job to alter it after its built. 

I spent a long time trying with our last van, insulating pipes and stopping draughts I even thought about insulting the waste tank and box it in, you could never get it warn when travelling having only the van heater, and if you put a curtain up behind the cab, it was like a freezer in the back. 8O I can still see Jane with a blanket over her legs. :lol: 

Things are very different now, everything is inside even the waste drain tap, we have two Truma heaters one in the garage and one in the front, and a heat exchanger taking heat from the engine while on the move with a two speed fan blowing hot air out the heating ducts on the move so the whole van is warm. Double glazed windows all round except the windscreen.  

Don't know how it would cope in - 45.9 c temperatures, but would not mind giving it a go.  

The vans are still built today are as they have always been built, and their idea of winterised just putting a heater in the tanks is a joke, some people have bought them to live in full time. 8O Thinking they have bought a fully winterised van. Bob.


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