# Ramadan starts today.



## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

For those not familier with Ramadan read on 

The holy month of Ramazan (Ramadan) begins today Tuesday 9th July when observant Muslim's will fast from sunrise to sunset. What is it all about and how could it affect you if you plan to go on holiday to Turkey/Morocco over that time?

Observing Ramazan, the holy month, is very important for Muslims worldwide as it is one of the five basic duties of the faith.

It is a time of fasting, prayer and celebration.

It is also a time for contemplation when people examine their own lives, understand the gift of eating when they feel like it and remind themselves of virtues such as charity, compassion and forgiveness.

Nil by Mouth
During the period between sunrise and sunset nothing will pass the lips - no food, drink, smoke or chewing gum.
Observant fasters will also not swim or shower during the day time fast in case water passes the lips.
But, when the sun sets, the fast is broken and participants will celebrate with a feast known as the Iftar - 'Break-fast'.

The date of Ramazan changes by 11 days each year (earlier) and this year it will begin on the night of Tuesday 9th July and end 30 days later on the evening of the 7th August.

At the end of Ramazan a three day holiday known as Seker Bayrami celebrates the end of the fast.

Why Does the Date Change?
Ramadan is always on the same day of the Islamic calendar. However, the date on the Gregorian calendar, the one we use, varies from year to year. This is because since the Gregorian calendar is a solar calendar and the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar.
This difference means Ramadan moves in the Gregorian calendar approximately 11 days every year.
The date of Ramadan may also vary from country to country depending on whether the moon has been sighted or not. So in North America Ramadan starts a day later than in Turkey.

Ramazan Head
As the fast is now well into the summer months it will bring with it additional pressures of heat and a very long day.
Imagine not drinking any water in this heat and you'll soon understand the sacrifice people are putting themselves through.
Not only that but smokers will also be climbing the walls too without their fix of nicotine.
The Turks describe the side effects of fasting as Ramazan 'kafasi', or 'Ramazan Head' in English, that distant, irritable, and some may say, spaced out feeling of going without.

Be Prepared
Fethiye, Marmaris, Kusadasi and Bodrum are tourist areas so the locals make allowances for visitors.
In fact many tourists will probably be blissfully unaware of not only Ramazan but also that their waiters or other hotel staff are fasting.
You will see people (Tourists and some Turks) eating, drinking and smoking during the day, but it's good form to be considerate to those Turkish people who are fasting and do any consumption subtly.
This is particularly the case if you smoke - walking down the street puffing away isn't going to make you popular with those with a nicotine craving.
In more rural places, or traditional cities (like Konya) you need to be more vigilant.
Religious beliefs can be strong so don't let people see you eat/drink or smoke in public.
If you are travelling outside a tourist area you may find it difficult to find anywhere to eat during the day so take some food and drink with you.

A few things to watch out for:
Irritation

Some people fasting will be irritable especially in the first few days so be extra careful to be polite and respectful in your day to day dealings with people.

Crazy or Crazier Driving

Around dusk the hungry faster will speed home for their Iftar meal.

Hungry, dying for a *** and with low blood sugar their driving will be even more erratic than normal.

So be careful crossing the road or driving around about this time.

In fact try to avoid going out at this time and wait half an hour after sunset and you'll have everywhere to yourself.

Special Foods

During the period of Ramazan, a special bread becomes available (called Pide) which is large and round and sprinkled with black cumin seeds. [These make great bases for French bread style pizza].

Supermarkets will also sell Ramazan hampers stocked with certain foods. These are given as gifts by employers to their staff.

Office Hours

Some business may have shorter opening hours during Ramazan so keep an eye out for signs advising of the times.

Restaurants

If you are travelling away from the popular resorts restaurants may only service one meal, the Iftar meal, at sunset and only with a reservation.

Those restaurants may also refuse to sell you alcohol.

If you don't want to go hungry plan ahead


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks Don, I am not a deeply religous person but do accept that we all have some type of beliefs and principles.

I am just pondering how much weight I would lose if i followed the Ramadan.

Dave p


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Don_Madge said:


> Nil by Mouth
> During the period between sunrise and sunset nothing will pass the lips - no food, drink, smoke or chewing gum.


Like Dave I really just don't get religion of any kind and am getting increasingly intolerant of it in any form.
So one thing has puzzled me about Ramadan and it's observance since a visit to Iceland in June some years ago. 
It struck me then that as Ramadan fell in June that year, living in Iceland or anywhere else at that latitude was near impossible for a Muslim as in Akureyri (about 50 miles from the Arctic Circle) sunset was about 2.20 am and sunrise was about 2.30 am.

What would a Muslin do if living in Polar regions and Ramadan fell between the equinoxes?


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Although not religious
Tolerance is really important 
and understanding someones perspective.
You get far more out of visiting places if you understand waht's going on

Thanks Don and Madge


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Thanks Don, I am not a deeply religous person but do accept that we all have some type of beliefs and principles.
> 
> I am just pondering how much weight I would lose if i followed the Ramadan.
> 
> Dave p


In my experience of 2 years spent in Saudia Arabia working for a Saudi company you would not lose any. As soon as it is dusk and early evening prayers are over then huge amounts of food are consumed and many late nights. This means that when workers arrive at work early next day that they are shattered. This continues for the Ramadan period getting progressively worse.

It is worth noting that it is a moving festival and daylight can be quite a short period depending where one lives and the time of year. It can of course be the opposite. It is worth noting that there are genuine exceptions for the sick, elderly and travelers etc. Water was served on internal Saudi airline flights for example. Non Muslims were not expected to observe Ramadan but it would be a very unwise person who eats a Mars bar on the street. a stern lecture from the Religious Police, the dreaded Mutaween, or even a visit to the local Police Station.
The Mutaween are infamous for whipping believers into the Mosque for the 5 or so daily prayers. One of their more notorious acts was when they prevented schoolgirls from escaping a burning school in Mecca, because the girls were not wearing headscarves and abayas (black robes), and not accompanied by a male guardian. Fifteen girls died and 50 were injured as a result.

They have condemned the use of twitter. Sheikh Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh the head of the Mutaween said anyone using social media sites - and especially Twitter - "has lost this world and his afterlife". In response, the authorities have mooted moves that could inhibit Twitter users by linking their online accounts to their Saudi ID numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22543252


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanks Don

My wife works in Theatres (Hospital type) where many of the surgeons follow the Islamic faith.
Along the same lines as not wishing to have an operation performed on me by a surgeon trying to give up smoking, not eating all day may not promote the best of responses from the chap delving into my inner organs.

We once asked a Muslim lady how she felt, she was starving, she told us and dying to eat something. "Why not have a little nibble to take off the hunger pangs?" we asked. "He sees everything!" she told us.
Perhaps we could all do with a little more faith like that without going to greater extremes. 

Alan


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

rosalan said:


> Thanks Don
> 
> We once asked a Muslim lady how she felt, she was starving, she told us and dying to eat something. "Why not have a little nibble to take off the hunger pangs?" we asked. "He sees everything!" she told us.
> Perhaps we could all do with a little more faith like that without going to greater extremes.
> ...


Do you want a blind faith in anything? We need less faith and more investigation of those in authority. I had faith in what the Police said in the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster. I now have no faith in what those at the top of the Police establishment say.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

There is no walk in life without bad apples, whether in the police or even the church but for me, I still prefer to hope for the best and get disappointed when it is not realised. I try really hard not to be cynical about life and of course fail but I do try.
The issue here of course is Ramadan where believers faith is tested.

Alan


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## tulsehillboys (Jul 22, 2010)

Go visit the bazaars just before iftar
Everyone is getting their food out ready to eat as soon as the prayer call goes up
No one hassels you - just bliss


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I spent Ramadan at King Khalid Military City when we started the construction work. It was midsummer and the temperature was usually 130 Fahrenheit every day (and more on some days). 8O 

Ramadan was rigidly enforced. We had to eat and drink before daylight, only allowed to work a maximum of 5 hours and not eat or drink until darkness fell. We used to take food and drink back to our rooms (Portakabin accommodation) for the afternoons so it was not bad for us. It must have been torture for the Muslims though in that heat.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks Don, I am now better informed, makes the 5:2 diet look a bit lame though.


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Well
I have no problem with those who follow the Islamic faith keeping to their tradition and belief during Ramadam.
But I fail to see why non-believing tourists should have to observe it. Respect for the tradition that Muslims follow yes but expecting non-believing tourists to follow suit is OTT.
As for the information given above of the faith police not letting schoolgirls out of a burning building because their heads were not covered. This to me says exactly what is wrong with religion. No compassion but slavish compliance.
Saints preserve us :wink:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Very familiar with Ramadam from our time in Israel

Albert worked along side those fasting, hot and no drink passed their lips

The self control to be admired, plus Immahannsa did an extra week in return for a son

The problem here is the long window between sun up and sun down

In Israel and I suspect most Islam states there is a shorter window

Here before 6 and after 9

I would happily fast but not without water

Aldra


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Actually Ramadan [Islamic year 1434] will begin on Wednesday 10th.

Arab Gulf states and Egypt have agreed with Morocco and announced that the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan will now start Wednesday. In a statement the Moroccan government said that the crescent moon announcing Ramadan, could not be observed on Monday and therefore July 10th will be the first day of fasting.

This year in France, the Muslim Council voted to start Ramadan based on astronomical calculations instead of moon spying. There are reports that the United Arab Emirates would likely switch. This change would allow both Ramadan and Eid to be scheduled years in advance, making Muslim work and social calendars easier to coordinate with the holiday.

Predictably some confusion……. While the more "enlightened" may support the change, many Muslim scholars predicted resistance, or is it an aversion to any change?

Arab astronomers have been computing planetary positions for millennial. As far back as the 9th Century al-Khwarizm published his Zij al-Sindh with tables for movements of the sun, the moon and five known planets. But that's science [best not get into the subject of Islam and science here] and we're talking religion.

Mmmmmm…. If they can't even agree on something as fundamental and as important as the start of Ramadan what chance do other all problems have?

And if you think all thats fun then consider…….The wonderfully named "Ministry of Public Modernisation" in Morocco announced on the 6th July that from the 7th….yes, just one days notice that the time will shift back an hour for Ramadan.

Anyway, wherever you are I sincerely wish my many Muslin friends a happy Ramadan.

Ray


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

aldra said:


> Very familiar with Ramadam from our time in Israel
> 
> Albert worked along side those fasting, hot and no drink passed their lips
> 
> ...


I believe that traditionally the feasting could start when the Imam could no longer see a piece of thread because of bad light.

In the days before spectacles, I would imagine this time varied wildly. :lol:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

And we in the Western Christan and the Eastern Orthodox Churches wonder about the complicated formula for calculating the dates of Easter!

In ancient days every Friday was a day of fasting that then became a fish day.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

*Ramadan starts*

Don thanks for your post and the information about Ramadan.

As a subscriber to "both main motorhome forums I read it also on another site (where you have a much better avatar may I say)

There was a much stronger response on that site about "them lot and what they do, and what they expect us to do etc etc"

Once again I am pleased to be an active member of this site......it's like reading the Guardian (or now the I at 20p).............rather than the.......... well let's just say it made our garden very hot today.

I'm not racist BUT !


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I am not Muslem

But we could do worse than subject ourselves to a regime of abstenance

I haven't for some time but always fasted the 40 days of lent on nothing but fresh fruit juice for years

And believe me the feeling of liberation and well being has to be tried to be believed

We too easily slip into the eat whether we are hungry or not mentality
Without conciously thinking about it

Sadly we lose sight of how hunger feels so keen are we to avoid finding out

Actually it's not that bad

Aldra


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## chiefwigwam (Jan 23, 2013)

Whoopppeeeeee


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well that's lost me 8O 

What does it mean in the context of this thread???

Selawman obviously knows

But I don't

aldra


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

I think he might have been on the "sauce" a bit early...

Cheers

Dave


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## chiefwigwam (Jan 23, 2013)

I had a Muslim earlier

A Muslim Shiite


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

...and you thought I could be ubreasonable :wink: :lol:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It's all a 'con'.

To subjugate the populace and keep them controlled either by fear or indoctrination.

Ray.

p.s. but thanks Don.


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## simandme (Jan 11, 2011)

I once compared notes on christianity versus islam, with a lovely lady at work.

She explained Ramadan and giving up food/drink during daylight hours.

I then explained Lent and giving up your favourite item....which in her case would have been her mobile phone.

She said give her Ramadan any day :lol: :lol:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Been through a couple of Ramadans in Bahrain when we used to wind up some of our local drivers and mechs. 
Then finish up in a huddle giving them cans of beer **** and cakes from the NAAFI. 
Although they were **** scared of being caught they always enjoyed their Ramadans


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

A couple of years ago we were in Morocco and the standard "tip" asked for by the men was a can of beer or some other alcoholic drink. I always told them we didn't carry beer because I don't drink. No one believed me! They always asked me how come a Westerner didn't drink, so I started to reply that I was a Muslim and didn't drink and asked what religeon were they! It always made them look amazed/aghast and occasionally made them blush. It was only when I smiled and winked did they realise I was joking, about the Muslim bit not the non drinking!

Most laughed and saw the joke but they found it amazing that someone from Europe didn't drink. 

I once asked a guy how come they did drink when they shouldn't. His reply was Morocco wasn't a strict Muslim country and providing it was done out of sight most men had the odd can. He replied, with a smile, that it was along the same lines as catholics and contraception, they know it's wrong but the urge is greater! That made me laugh .

One guy actually refused a bottle of wine Ann offered him after reading the label and complaining it was just cheap Spanish stuff!


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Annsman said:


> A couple of years ago we were in Morocco and the standard "tip" asked for by the men was a can of beer or some other alcoholic drink. I always told them we didn't carry beer because I don't drink. No one believed me! They always asked me how come a Westerner didn't drink, so I started to reply that I was a Muslim and didn't drink and asked what religeon were they! It always made them look amazed/aghast and occasionally made them blush. It was only when I smiled and winked did they realise I was joking, about the Muslim bit not the non drinking!
> 
> Most laughed and saw the joke but they found it amazing that someone from Europe didn't drink.
> 
> ...


In a leather shop in Sousse, Tunisia I was told I could have my pick of the shop in exchange for a bottle of "duty free" - any duty free :roll:

I hope they enjoyed their bottle of Advocaat....................... :lol:


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

As soon as Iftar arrives(sunset) people can stuff themselves silly, thereby "stocking up" for the following few hours of fast- and they do, often missing out on sleep to do so.

I witnessed this many times on visits to my daughter who used to live in the Emirates and invited me to her "social occasions" 

I often wondered "what's the point of the Fast?"

My grandsons weren't allowed a drink at school despite it regularly being around 40degC


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps predictably the emphasis here seems to have firmly settled on the need to refrain from alcohol and food during the month of Ramadan. Given the UK's pre-occupation with alcohol and the general need for its excessive consumption it is perhaps wholly understandable :roll: .

To a Muslim Ramadan is seen as a time to purify the soul, refocus attention on God, and to practice self-sacrifice. Muslims are called upon to use this month to re-evaluate their lives in light of Islamic guidance.

Ramadan is much more than just not eating and drinking.

During Ramadan, every part of the body must be restrained. It is said that the tongue must be restrained from backbiting and idle gossip. The eyes must restrain themselves from looking at unlawful things. The hand must not touch or take anything that does not belong to it. The ears must refrain from listening to idle talk or obscene words. The feet must refrain from going to sinful places. In such a way, every part of the body observes the fast.

Therefore, fasting is not merely physical, but rather the total commitment of the person's body and soul to the spirit of the fast. Ramadan is a time to practice self-restraint; a time to cleanse the body and soul from impurities and re-focus one's self on the worship of God.

The Arabic word for "fasting" [sawm] literally means "to refrain" and does not mean only refraining from food and drink, but from evil actions, thoughts, and words.

Given ongoing events we can only hope. If we don't understand the very essential basics of Islam, in this case Ramadan, and if many muslins find it impossible apply these same basics what prospect is there for any of us?

Don't shoot the messenger……..I'm only saying……. :wink:

Ray

.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

iI is so easy to site those that fail

And forget the many thousands that successfully complete the Ramadam
period of self restraint, most are just everyday people like you and me

Would do no harm if we all followed a period of self restraint

Religious or not

Aldra


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## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

Following on from my earlier post..........

I wonder how many in Morocco still remember the "dkak", the man who wakes people up for Shour, the meal served just before dawn prayer, during Ramadan? While the elder [very] generation may still remember him, sadly the bulk of the younger generation probably don't even know what he stood for.

Thankfully, in some old cities, such as Fez, Meknes, Tangier, Tetouan, Marrakesh, Sale and Rabat, especially in the old neighbourhoods, some people still struggle to keep this emblematic person and the tradition alive.

The "dkak" used different traditional instruments, such as the bell, drum or horn while passes by houses one after another while uttering words that signal the time of Shour.

The few remaining "dkaks" hold varying attitudes towards this tradition. While some deem it as a hobby or practice it for religious purposes, others resort to it to earn their living during Ramadan, as some families will give a few coins to the man devoted to waking them up.
Fasters used to count on this man and cherished hearing his call to "Shour". At one time the call even became an indispensable part of their fasting during Ramadan.

To some on the other hand he has become just a nuisance, making noise and preventing them from sleeping. Now, as Moroccans an rely on the alarm clock or smart phone setting they have already largely forget about their past tradition.

Now that technology permeates every aspect of our lives disappearing traditions are a sad loss ………. Perhaps remember the small things and the big things will perhaps take care of themselves.

Ray
.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Remember lamplighters? 

I (almost) do!


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I can remember reading many years ago about the difference in the way it began Ray.

Was it the sighting of the new moon locally? Or the sighti g of the new moon in Mecca?. Presumably that is another thing that has gone in the days of smart phones and telecommunications  

Dick


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

pippin said:


> Remember lamplighters?
> 
> I (almost) do!


Pippin

I almost do too

But I quite can't remember

Aldra


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

aldra said:


> iI is so easy to site those that fail
> 
> And forget the many thousands that successfully complete the Ramadam
> period of self restraint, most are just everyday people like you and me
> ...


I practice self restraint every day thank you very much.
I restrain myself from washing up. I restrain myself from making the bed and doing the hoovering. I even resisted buying a newspaper today. 
Life is for living not passing by on the other side according to some ancient fairy story


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Spacerunner said:


> aldra said:
> 
> 
> > iI is so easy to site those that fail
> ...


that is great Spacerunner

I wish I practised daily self restraint

Unfortunately I don't

So need an identified period of time

That I can set aside to do so

Aldra


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