# The best mountain passes



## barryd

On the back of the thread about avoiding mountains in France I wondered what everyone's favourite mountain passes are.

We love them and the higher and more scenic the better. Done a few now with the Col de Bonette in south eastern France being the highest at nearly 10000ft at the summit.

So where, what and why are your most memorable ones?

I think sometimes the best ones are not necessarily the biggest or highest of course.

Even better if there are any recommendations where you can overnight on the pass or on top of it.

Photos would be good as well.


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## GEMMY

Keep the list of altitudes below 6000', i'm not allowed above that. :roll: 

tony


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## barryd

Why what happens to you? Do you blow up and float off or just explode?


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## HermanHymer

Good idea barryd

This may not be "the best" but for me it was unforgettable!

In my "grand tour of Switzerland" in 2010, I was lurking in Zurich when I saw on meteo suisse an upcoming break in the weather so I decided to hotfoot down south to see the Matterhorn. This is an iconic mountain for me having been captivated by it when I was just 7 years old. A previous visit in the 80's had been stymied by relentless cloud.

So there was me tooling down the motorway in the direction of Italy. Unfortunately when I reached the exit to Andermatt I was locked in the fast lane and had to press on... yes through the 17km long Gotthard tunnel. The only upside was that on the south end I was able to refuel with LPG and buy a map. (Tom kept dozing off on account of the tunnels.) U-turn and back up the tunnel, this time watching out for the off-ramp. 

Unexpected challenge Furka Pass. Snow down to the elbows, narrow road even narrower, mist, rain and tour buses coming at me head-on. Thank goodness I was on the "inland" side. It was quite a relief to get down the other side. For awesomeness I'd probably choose the Col de Tourmalet, but the Furka is one I won't ever forget.


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## Zozzer

Furkapass & Grimselpass would be my No1 & 2, Terrified the life out of me the first time I drove along them, so much so I had to return and do them again.

I had the same experience with a tour bus I met on a hairpin bend. Had to reverse and get as close to the edge as possible in low cloud poor visibility.


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## hogan

Not sure of the alt but Mont Ventoux wild spots 3/4 way up and also at the top.

Col de Galibier
Small car park at the top loads of stopping places on the way up on bothsides.


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## Glandwr

Not scary from a road point of view, but from a bandit point of view with heaps of romance the Kabul gorge and the Kyber Pass in 1971 in a ramshackle mini bus with half a dozen Aussies. Fearlessness and youth go together  A huge sigh of relief when we got to Peshawar and relative safety. The old British Kyber Rifles fort at the top of the pass looked really well kept by the way.

I won't spend the night up there though Barry :wink: 

Dick


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## GEMMY

18 Dec 2013 - A CYCLIST managed to ride a Boris bike up Mont Ventoux – a gruelling 6,273ft peak in the French Alps – and return it to London before his 24 hr rental finished :lol: 

tony


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## Glandwr

Bloody hell Tony, I bet the bike weighed more than him at the end of it knowing Boris bikes  

Dick


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## nicholsong

GEMMY said:


> Keep the list of altitudes below 6000', i'm not allowed above that. :roll:
> 
> tony


Tony

If that is a serious comment and due to a medical problem, I hope you have been advised not to fly - the cabin is pressurised, but only partially, so only down to a pressure altitude of 7-8,000ft.

Geoff


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## GEMMY

It was a serious comment Geoff, thanks for the heads up about flying, never been mentioned to me, :wink: 

tony


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## uncleswede

The Stelvio pass ...










48 hairpins on the eastern approach (towards Bormio). There's a sign at the bottom restricting vehicle length to 10m but, to be honest, even in our 7m van it was hairy (we had to take virtually the whole road width on the hairpin bends). And it started snowing 10 bends before the top (in September)!


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## GEMMY

Great pic, looks good, I'll give it a miss :lol:

The Stelvio Pass (Italian: Passo dello Stelvio; German: Stilfser Joch), located in Italy, at 2757 m (9045 feet) is the highest paved mountain pass in the Eastern Alps, and the second highest in the Alps, slightly below the Col de l'Iseran (2770 m, 9088 feet

tony


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## stevethebeekeeper

I like the Route Napoléon.

The only picture I have on this computer is the col de pailleres on the D25 a cracking biking road.

Mountain passes are best enjoyed on motorcycles.


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## cronkle

I liked Col de la Croix de Fer, Col de Genevre and Col de L'Iseran.

I liked Col de Bonnette as well but the loop around the peak was closed when we went up there so we didn't get to do the highest bit. 

That made my 'highest point' the Col de L'Iseran but at least that counts as the highest pass.

We have done a few of the high passes in the French Alps with quite a few of them being over 6,000ft. The whole ares is quite nice (deliberate understatement).


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## alexblack13

Try the Stelvio... but not in the MH. It is very tight for space at bits and overhangs on MH's tend to rip the tops of the little walls on the 180 turns... We watched a MH self destructing on the way up the Italian side 
(pictured above). Not a pretty sight with lots of damage.

Its quite a pass. let us know how you go.. :roll: Be careful.

AB13.


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## barryd

Thanks for the replies. Brilliant stuff.

Some good ones in there I think that I possibly haven't done although I embarrassingly have to admit that I can't remember the names of half of them. Looking through my photos briefly most are on the bike. I guess we don't always get a chance to take ones of the van.

The Stelvio Pass looks superb. Thats it! Thats the one I want to do next.

We always seem to have had perfect weather on the passes but I guess that's a combination of luck and always being there in the summer.

Looking back I think despite the fact that I moan about stuff breaking on our van and things dropping off the little bike they have served us well for nearly six years and never let us down when it matters. They have certainly endured some abuse!

Some pics
On the way up to the top of the Col de la Bonnette (the Roof of Europe) highest paved road in Europe (debatable)
[fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]962[/fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]

And on the way down. 40 mile descent. Brakes were smoking badly by the bottom
[fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]970[/fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]

Top of the Col de Vars. Not very interesting but I remember it well as there were about 20 British bikers on huge bikes all chuffed with themselves for getting up there when we buzzed along two up on a 100cc 2 stroke Peugeot. There were several chins on the floor. 
[fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]954[/fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]

I cannot remember the name of this one in the Italian Dolomites but we were going to take the van but wondered if it would be a tad narrow as it got a lot narrower near the top so took the bike. It was flipping steep though and we were down to about 15 mph flat out on the way up. I was going to make Mrs D get off and push.
[fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]946[/fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]

Ran out of road in 2010 in the Pyrenees but it was early May and some of the big passes were still shut or still ski slopes like this one. Would like to go back there midsummer.

[fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]978[/fullalbumimg:a1cee71bce]


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## nicholsong

GEMMY said:


> It was a serious comment Geoff, thanks for the heads up about flying, never been mentioned to me, :wink:
> 
> tony


Tony

I thought I might have been teaching 'granny to suck eggs, but I am pleased l mentioned it.

I presume the advice about 6,000' came from a doctor, if so, he/she also needs to be educated on the fact, or he/she was remiss in not telling you. Maybe the extra 1-2,000' would not be critical and that is why it was not mentioned.

Just for further info, the percentage of oxygen at the pressure altitude of 8,000' is approximately 25% less than sea level. But when seated in an aircraft one's demand from oxygen is much less than say walking at 6,000' - another reason why a doctor might not have mentioned it.

I do not want to put you off flying, and even if oxygen were a problem for you on a flight, the crew carry a small portable oxygen bottle and regulator for passenger emergencies., which can provide a continuous supply for (if memory serves, 30 mins., or that maybe for the crew ones, allowing for activity.

Maybe just worth a discussion with a doctor, who may well say there is no problem just sitting in an aircraft. It would be re-assuring for you.

Geoff


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## dalspa

I'll second the Col de Galibier. Drove over it in car about 30 years ago on way to the Med (tenting in those days). There were cyclists going up, we would overtake then later stop to take photos and the cyclists would come by us only for us to overtake again - this repeated a few times. Near the top the snow (on the uphill side) was a vertical face 3m high looking as though it could fall at any moment and push us into space! Wife was scared to death. Stopped at car park at top for a few more pics and then down the other side. Would't fancy doing it in the motorhome. It would have been early September. I often think about those cyclists slogging away - coming from the Fens we only have the Fenland Hills (wind).

DavidL


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## GEMMY

Last flight 25 years ago, non planned :wink: 

Anything above 5000' feet on a cable car (speed of ascent} needs a couple of sprays beneath the tongue ( dilation of arteries)

Bugger innit...............dead man walking :roll: :wink: 

tony


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## barryd

Found this superb video of the Stelvio Pass in a Ferrari 458 Spider. I want to do it in one of them now! Wonder if you can hire them at the bottom? 8O






The road looks no worse than the Bonnette although as said some of the hairpins are a bit tight. I would have no quarms taking the van up that at all. If you look in the the clip there is a good size goods lorry going down it.

Sorry Tony. Didnt mean to take the Pi$$ earlier about you exploding at altitude.  Well yeah I did really. :lol:


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## GEMMY

That's nice

I also take helly kuchon lessons






tony


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## nicholsong

Barry

Good topic. It is generating some great pics. hopefully more to come.

I may not show all to Basia - she always wants to be on the mountainside not the 'drop' side of the MH, but I cannot persuade her to swap seats rounding the hairpins :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

The topic is a good example of places where we MHers can have our 'hotels' where there are no hotels    And the price is right : :wink: 

Geoff


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## Christine600

Trollstigen in Norway 










We met many tourist coaches so even the largest MHs should be able to make it.

_The Trollstigen Mountain Road has a steep incline of 9 percent and consists of 11 hairpin bends. Encircling the road are lofty mountains. Names such as Kongen(the King), Dronningen (the Queen) and Bispen (the Bishop) confirm their majesty._


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## barryd

GEMMY said:


> That's nice
> 
> I also take helly kuchon lessons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tony


  Get it! Guess I asked for that!



nicholsong said:


> Barry
> 
> Good topic. It is generating some great pics. hopefully more to come.
> 
> I may not show all to Basia - she always wants to be on the mountainside not the 'drop' side of the MH, but I cannot persuade her to swap seats rounding the hairpins :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> The topic is a good example of places where we MHers can have our 'hotels' where there are no hotels    And the price is right : :wink:
> 
> Geoff


Tell Basia that we all intend to meet up on the Stelvio in July and I have offered to take her up the pass on the scooter! 8O That should put some colour in her cheeks.


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## GEMMY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d'Huez

is nice, plenty of camping up top 

Don't try it the day of the 'Tour de France', another 500000 will be there :lol: 

tony


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## barryd

GEMMY said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d'Huez
> 
> is nice, plenty of camping up top
> 
> Don't try it the day of the 'Tour de France', another 500000 will be there :lol:
> 
> tony


I think we were going to do that one last summer in August and the Col de l'Iseran which would have meant we had done the entire Route des Grande Alps from Lake Leman in Switzerland down to Nice but the fire knackered in the van and it was freezing so we ended up in the Ardeche.

Looks good. Some of the passes are often closed at certain times for other minor cycle races. They sometimes take them over for a morning.


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## aldra

I'm embarresed

I never remember the names and we've done quite a few 8O 

Note to self, you need to remember where and when

Don't forget there are some magnificent passes in the lake district, some not do able in a larger motor home, but fantastic non the less

Aldra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> I'm embarresed
> 
> I never remember the names and we've done quite a few 8O
> 
> Note to self, you need to remember where and when
> 
> Don't forget there are some magnificent passes in the lake district, some not do able in a larger motor home, but fantastic non the less
> 
> Aldra


Thats why some people do Blogs. Mine just tend to be ramblings about nonsense though rather than factual and that reminds me I still never finished last years or the one before!

There are some nice passes in the lake district but the Hard Knott and Rynose most visitors struggle with in a car!


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## VanFlair

Col de Turini, France.

Just because we did it cycle camping.

Martin


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## peejay

Trollstigen as mentioned but half the time its raining so you can't see much, one of the best basic campsites we've ever stayed at on the descent down the other side in a magic location by a raging river, all for about a fiver a night.

Katara pass back in 2002, one of the highest in Northern Greece, used to be the main route east but now the Egnatia motorway has been built its hardly used apparently.

Dades Gorge pass, Morocco, not particulary high but loads of squiggly bits on the way up (or down).

Pete


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## barryd

peejay said:


> Trollstigen as mentioned but half the time its raining so you can't see much, one of the best basic campsites we've ever stayed at on the descent down the other side in a magic location by a raging river, all for about a fiver a night.
> 
> Katara pass back in 2002, one of the highest in Northern Greece, used to be the main route east but now the Egnatia motorway has been built its hardly used apparently.
> 
> Dades Gorge pass, Morocco, not particulary high but loads of squiggly bits on the way up (or down).
> 
> Pete


Wow. Some good alternitives there Pete.

Maybe we should compile a list and set a MHF Challenge for the summer. See how many we can do. Maybe have a meet at the top of one of them. Actually. Lets just get my first meet at Croft out of the way before I go off on one organising Alpine tours. 8O

Too many to see!


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## bigtree

Got to agree on the Stelvio but another good one is the Timmelsjoch,





Done both and didn't think we would survive the Timmelsjoch as it was snowing at the top in July,and on the way down towards Italy the brakes on our Vito were nearly non existent.In saying that they were never great on that model (2003)!


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## hogan

We tend to do most of our touring in the winter but still manage to get to these cols. no need to go to high 
If you look at my blog about 3/4 of the way down you will see a couple of pictures of the Bielsa tunnel road on the French side in January.


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## barryd

bigtree said:


> Got to agree on the Stelvio but another good one is the Timmelsjoch,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Done both and didn't think we would survive the Timmelsjoch as it was snowing at the top in July,and on the way down towards Italy the brakes on our Vito were nearly non existent.In saying that they were never great on that model (2003)!


Looks like another good one! Merc driver was a bit of a wuss but looks a good pass.


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## pomme1

Don't try the Timmelsjoch in anything bigger than Bigtree's Vito, the tunnels on the Italian side are very tight for height and width.

I've cycled over it and the tunnel on the top is one of the spookiest I've been through!

Roger


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## barryd

pomme1 said:


> Don't try the Timmelsjoch in anything bigger than Bigtree's Vito, the tunnels on the Italian side are very tight for height and width.
> 
> I've cycled over it and the tunnel on the top is one of the spookiest I've been through!
> 
> Roger


Nah! Ill give anything a go. bet its not worse than this one which I got the van through although I sent Mrs D ahead on the bike as it was 3m height and 2.7 m wide

[fullalbumimg:6e9eeba0ee]586[/fullalbumimg:6e9eeba0ee]


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## bigtree

Anybody want to buy a Frankia,I want to go back to the mountains. 8O


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## alexblack13

Alpineitis is a bad thing to have as it's incurable. One can treat it but this leads to re infection and bad withdrawal symptoms... :lol: 


My Mrs and I toured a lot on or Honda ST1100 pan European Motorcycle and we bagged a lot of the passes. We did three in one day once. A good days riding. Our fav' is the Stelvio which we have been over three times twice from the Italian side.

It's incurable I tell you.... :roll: 

I'm not for trying very many passes with the MH though.

AB13 8)


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## Spadgar

Great post , inspires trips , one to recommend , grande St. Bernard , leave from chamonix takes in France Switzerland and Italy , or a bigger circle and do petite St. Bernard as well , or closer to home applecross , got to admit I've only done them on a motorbike but always lots MHS on alpine passes


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## barryd

I am going to sound like a smart arse but considering most MH;s are under 9m and bin wagons and none HGVs are capabable of doing these passes then whats stopping you?

Just do it!


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## alexblack13

OK... You talked me into it.

I still grimace at the thought of watching the MH in front of us going up the stelvio.. Knocking lumps out of the walls and doing lots of damage to the MH too...

BBbbbbrrrrrr!! ... What a sight (and sound) !!  

AB13CHB 8)


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## cronkle

barryd said:


> I am going to sound like a smart arse but considering most MH;s are under 9m and bin wagons and none HGVs are capabable of doing these passes then whats stopping you?
> 
> Just do it!


You're quite right. Heading south off the Col de Bonette we met two artics that could only have been heading for the pass. The second one waved two fingers at me making me think that he thought I had been unhelpful in the way I had pulled over.

He saw my consternation and made it clear that two more of his mates were following so I stayed put until they had passed.

It was a sunday too so I reckon they were doing it for a bet.

My van makes these climbs and yes, it is often likened to a bin wagon.


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## bigtree

Think I will tackle the Bealach ne Ba in August when we come back from Europe.


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## barryd

I have contacted these people to see about renting a Ferrari identical to the one in the video I posted earlier http://europeluxurycarhire.com/rent-luxury-cars-italy/bergamo/ferrari-rental

I will still do the Stelvio in the van but it must be every blokes dream to do it in a Red Ferrari.

Awaiting a quote!

Anyone want to guess how much? 

Of course unless its less than the price of a tank of Diesel I have no chance of getting it past the chancelor.  Or have I? :twisted:

I did once buy a boat without telling her but it took me 4 years to recover from that decision and make it up to her. Still. You have to do these things dont you?


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## wakk44

We enjoyed the mountains near Genoble,on the way up we followed 4 cyclists from team shimano who were practicing for the tour de France,the truck had all on just to keep up with them.The hairpin bends were a bit scary and needed a warning on the horn before entering them as they were blind bends.

Mrs wakk was hyper ventilating at times(so was I) but it was well worth it when we got to the top where the views were stunning and there was a good sized car park ideal for wild camping.No height barriers up there.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Tell Basia that ..... I have offered to take her up the pass on the scooter! 8O That should put some colour in her cheeks.


That sounds 'dodgy' - in more ways than one  :lol: :lol:

I might have to report that post ....to Michelle :wink: :lol: and Sandra

Geoff


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## barryd

nicholsong said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell Basia that ..... I have offered to take her up the pass on the scooter! 8O That should put some colour in her cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds 'dodgy' - in more ways than one  :lol: :lol:
> 
> I might have to report that post ....to Michelle :wink: :lol: and Sandra
> 
> Geoff
Click to expand...

Said under the influence of drink Geoff. You know me, I cant help myself! Whats the matter anyway. Dont you trust me taking your lovely Mrs on the bike (I was going to say up the pass there but its sunday morning).


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## scouter

*Alpine Passes*

Hi,

I've enjoyed driving Alpine Passes for years, we started serious passes when we were between campers as our air cooled VW struggled over the Brenner motorway in the early 80's.

We had moved onto a car and trailer tent and the car sailed over the triple pass day out of Furka, Grimsel and ? but the driver (me) and my better half (chief edge worrier) were shattered.

Later in the La Strada Sprinter, the Alpenstrasse at Grossglockner was quite a drive with absolutely stunning views. Later still we went over the Stelvio from Bormio. It wasn't the hairpins but the tunnels as you climb out of Bormio that were worrying, but the bus gets through, there are buses from each side up to the top. The triple passes around the top of Val Gardena are something to behold especially if you like lots of "tornanti".

Our van is on the right in the car park at the top. On the way down it was quite funny to see the cars pulling over and squeezing in a long time before we got to them There was also a lone van climbing from the northern side.

For scary we were in Morocco in October and the road from Ouarzarte to Marrakesh is probably the scariest road we've been across, it wasn't just the road, it was the blind overtaking and the drops!

As somebody else has suggested if the bin wagon or the local bus goes up there, you can get most motorhomes up there as well!

cheers alan


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell Basia that ..... I have offered to take her up the pass on the scooter! 8O That should put some colour in her cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds 'dodgy' - in more ways than one  :lol: :lol:
> 
> I might have to report that post ....to Michelle :wink: :lol: and Sandra
> 
> Geoff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Said under the influence of drink Geoff. You know me, I cant help myself! Whats the matter anyway. Dont you trust me taking your lovely Mrs on the bike (I was going to say up the pass there but its sunday morning).
Click to expand...

Barry

Of course I trust you - but I would not leave the room with you and a crate of Leffe, or wine, in there. :roll: :lol:

Geoff


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## alexblack13

The last tour with the bikes, I took 8 bikes with 16 pers' for an Alpine trip. Two weeks away we were. They enjoyed the Grossglockner very much. An easy pass in comparison to some but boy what a trip. There were lots of MH's doing the pass both ways.

I took them up the Zugspitz too. Thats well worth the time.

Enjoy...

AB13 8)


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## barryd

I priced up the options for renting a Ferrari to do the Stelvio Pass.

Minimum 3 day hire in June. Take a deep breath and have a look at this!
*
Ferrari F430 spider for €1395 per day
or
Ferrari California for €1495 per day
or
Ferrari 458 Italia for €1595 per day
or
Ferrari 458 Spider for €1695 per day

All cars come with 100km of drive time per day included
€10,000 security deposit
€300 delivery and collection
*

Its a tad dear. Wonder how much a 2CV would be instead?


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## tonyt

barryd said:


> I priced up the options for renting a Ferrari to do the Stelvio Pass.
> 
> Minimum 3 day hire in June. Take a deep breath and have a look at this!
> *
> Ferrari F430 spider for €1395 per day
> or
> Ferrari California for €1495 per day
> or
> Ferrari 458 Italia for €1595 per day
> or
> Ferrari 458 Spider for €1695 per day
> 
> All cars come with 100km of drive time per day included
> €10,000 security deposit
> €300 delivery and collection
> *
> 
> Its a tad dear. Wonder how much a 2CV would be instead?


Yeh, but if 3 or 4 of us parked up at the bottom, how many return trips up/down the pass could be done in a day? Maybe the excess mileage wouldn't be too expensive?


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## barryd

tonyt said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I priced up the options for renting a Ferrari to do the Stelvio Pass.
> 
> Minimum 3 day hire in June. Take a deep breath and have a look at this!
> *
> Ferrari F430 spider for €1395 per day
> or
> Ferrari California for €1495 per day
> or
> Ferrari 458 Italia for €1595 per day
> or
> Ferrari 458 Spider for €1695 per day
> 
> All cars come with 100km of drive time per day included
> €10,000 security deposit
> €300 delivery and collection
> *
> 
> Its a tad dear. Wonder how much a 2CV would be instead?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh, but if 3 or 4 of us parked up at the bottom, how many return trips up/down the pass could be done in a day? Maybe the excess mileage wouldn't be too expensive?
Click to expand...

What are the chances of us getting our deposit back?

I would have to go last as for sure its probably coming back in several pieces.


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## BrianJP

I remember my Dads tale of a coach holiday back in the 1960's that went down the old St Gothard pass (before they built the tunnel).
Some of the hairpin bends were so tight that the driver had to back up to get around them leaving the rear passengers sitting over thousands of feet of free air.


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## alexblack13

Barry.. Hire a Porsche Boxster S 3.2 / 3.4 instead. You wont be disappointed.

Alex B. :wink:


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## barryd

alexblack13 said:


> Barry.. Hire a Porsche Boxster S 3.2 / 3.4 instead. You wont be disappointed.
> 
> Alex B. :wink:


I could probably buy an old Boxster for the cost of three days rent on a Ferrari!


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