# Towing capacities



## prog54 (Nov 22, 2010)

Need simple explanation how one calculates towing capacity.
Looking to tow a Smart car on a trailer, I can get weights of trailer and car but not sure if tow bar or van is capable to tow safely.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Terry


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

Look at the plate under the bonnet on MH. It should state the maximum train weight. There are exceptions!!!!!!
Some MH with an ALKO chassis extension can not tow what the under bonnet plate states as the chassis extension is not up to the job. The plate should have been changed but has not.
Best solutions to email/contact the MH manufacturer/converter and give chassis number and get them to tell you towing capacity.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

On Autotrails the final build chassis is quite often in the high level cupboard behind the driver (alternatively wherever the Sargent PSU is). It's a stick-on / printed plate rather than being stamped.

Typically if it's a modern Fiat based one the towing limit is 1050kg - just about enough to do Smart + trailer. The very latest ones can be a bit higher (1250?), and the Merc based ones are a lot higher.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Our Autotrail tow bar has a max towing limit of 1295 kg.
Towbar from Armitages.

Dave p


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

2008 Autotrail Cheynne 660 1045 kg


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

If you look at the Auto Trail website the towing limits are shown there. As long as you don't exceed your maximum train weight you are ok, for example our Arapaho used to have a 1ton towing capacity but Auto Trail now say I can reduce the payload and increase the towing capacity.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

DJP said:


> Auto Trail now say I can reduce the payload and increase the towing capacity.


Of course you can so as not to exceed the Maximum Train Weight. What is the maximum towing capacity of the vehicle and of the towbar? These cannot be exceeded even if you keep within the Maximum Train Weight.


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## prog54 (Nov 22, 2010)

Thanks guys for the info but I am now even more confused than I was before.

The following is the information I have gathered regarding weights etc.
I am confused with the terms Gross weight, load capacity and train weight.

Autotrail Mohican 2002 on Merc 316 body 
It has a PWS tow bar including support chasis bars weighing 50kg in total.
The gross vehicle weight has been increased according to engine plate to 3800kg.
The figures listed on plate under seat are 
3500
6300
front axle loading 1750
rear axle loading 2240
I don't know what first 2 figures refer to.

I have had MH weighed and given the following.
front axle 1250
rear axle 1920, all unladen.

The trailer is quoted at 1300kg gross and 1025kg loading

The Smart car is listed as 750kg.

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms what figures I use and how to calculate them.
Regards
Terry


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

3500 is the MGW of the vehicle. 

6300 is the Maximum Train Weight i.e the maximum that the combined weight of the trailer and vehicle can be.

What is on that plate appears academic, as the plate with MGW of 3800kg MGW is on the face of it the current plate if it has been uprated.

Are you sure that the 3800kg MGW plate is not the original and it has in fact been down rated to 3500kg in accordance with the plate under the seat?
Who issued the two plates? Is it registered as PHGV or PLG and what does the V5c say the Revenue Weight is?


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

prog54 said:


> The gross vehicle weight has been increased according to engine plate to 3800kg.
> The figures listed on plate under seat are
> 3500
> 6300
> ...


My opinion:
3500 = original max vehicle weight. (Replated to 3800kg)
6300 = max train weight (max motorhome weight plus any trailer)
front axle loading 1750 = max weight on front axle - you have 1250
rear axle loading 2240 = max weight on rear axle - you have 1920
both your figures above are good but you really need the fully laden figures to be sure.
If your trailer is max of 1300kg + 800kg (smart + max fuel) then you have a trailer weighing 2100kg.
So max MH = 3500 + max trailer 2100 = 5600kg so you would be under your max of 6300kg!

I would double check with PWS but I guess your tow bar is up to the job.
Now all you have to do is find a smart.
I would recommend a 'convertible' as it has a big sun roof. 700cc is best of older ones but you need a 100% service history at either smart or a smart expert. Some garages don't realise there are 6 spark plugs and if not changed this can cause big problems. The oil level must be checked VERY regularly, use Fully Synthetic oil, and let it idle for 30 sec before switching off.
The gearboxes can have 2 modes but not all models have it as standard. The better ones have the little switch on the side of the gear stick to switch between full auto and a sequential clutch-less manual.
If you have any smart questions I would be happy to answer any I can.


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

"The trailer is quoted at 1300kg gross and 1025kg loading"

To my reading this means the max gross weight of the trailer and load is 1300kg... The load (car inc anything in it) can be 1025kg..
Hence the unladed weight of the trailer is 1300 - 1025 = 275kg..
Seem's much more likely...

So 750 for the car and 275 trailer... Easily within the weight even if you have the van loaded up to 3800kg...

For reference I have a 2012 Autotrail 700... The towing weight is limited to 1050kg as stated on the certificate of conformity.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would concur with Steves statement re weights. The Gross weight of your trailer is exactly the that. the maximum possible (legal) weight of trailer plus whatever its carrying.

That weight would be taken by detaching the trailer from your MH so that the two wheels and the jockey wheel were all on the weigh bridge. Any weight borne by the towing vehicle does NOT come off the GVW of the trailer!!

I have a 2007 Cheyenne 696G on Fiat maxi chassis.

The nice man at Autotrail failed to fit a converters "plate" and before anyone asks yes I have looked everywhere including all internal cupboards :roll: ( it appears it is not that uncommon for this plate to have been left off Autotrails  ) so I ONLY have the original Fiat plate. This shows a huge train weight (over 6 tonnes!!)

I am well aware that Autotrail recommend a max trailer weight of just 1050 Kg. If you look at the huge rear chassis rail extensions which run all the way (over 2 metres  ) from the rear spring hanger points you can understand why this limit has been imposed, LOTS of leverage!!

I have a Smart car on an Alko Smart car trailer which all comes in at just under the 1050 Kg mark. ANYTHING bigger would not 

It does concern me that there may be other Autotrail owners who are unaware of the 1050 kg limit and MAY think they can tow a mega heavy trailer behind their MH if they just look at the Fiat plate under the bonnet.

Anyone know how to adjust the brakes on my Alko trailer?? can it be done without removing the hubs?? Please dont say adjust the cables. Its necessary to make sure the brakes themselves are adjusted correctly *before* adjusting the operating cables!


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> The nice man at Autotrail failed to fit a converters "plate" and before anyone asks yes I have looked everywhere including all internal cupboards :roll: ( it appears it is not that uncommon for this plate to have been left off Autotrails  ) so I ONLY have the original Fiat plate. This shows a huge train weight (over 6 tonnes!!)


Have a chat with your dealer. Mine was like that, my dealer dropped Autotrail a line & a pristine new chassis plate was dispatched within a couple of days, no charge.


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## prog54 (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi all
thanks for all your info.
I have now received information from Autotrail which advises that the combined weight of trailer and Smart car of 1075kg is within the tow weight of my MH.
I just need to double check with PWS but hopefully should be ok.



> Hi,
> Yes the weight should be fine as far as the vehicle is concerned. You may wish to check with PWS as to what they recommend on their part.
> The recommended towing weight for your vehicle is 1200kg providing the tow bar conversion can take this.
> Regards
> ...


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Terry

I have a PWS towbar fitted and have just got back from a 2k+ mile trip without any problem at all. 

Wish I had gone down the route of Smartie on a trailer years ago. we certainly got out and about a lot more this trip, and visited all sorts of places I would not really want to take a MH !! (ended up on one road(?) that was only fractionaly wider between buildings than Smartie was wide (and it isnt very!!)

PWS towbars are VERY substantial bits of kit and (I believe) the ONLY towbar manufacturer who currently have type approval for fitting to new MH's.

Give 'em a ring and ask the question. I have to confess I work on the theory no reputable firm is going to produce a towbar that is not up to the job in hand. Dont forget a smartie and trailer weighs MUCH less than yer average shed :wink: (sorry caravan  )


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

All this is very useful. Next spring, we aim to tow a caravan from France to Portugal, using our Adria Twin. Not sure if we should load heavy stuff into the caravan or the MH?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would check VERY carefully what the the various weights are for your MH before even contemplating towing a caravan (which is likely to be a lot heavier than a Smart car on a trailer)

A lot depends on what the base vehicle is. if its a Merc then you will have a much greater towing capability than you will if its a Fiat base.

Add the GVW of the caravan to the GVW of the MH. 

If the number is greater than your MH's TRAIN weight (the biggest number on the spec plate) then its not legally possible. 

Then of course you come onto the issue of Driving Licence restrictions, especially if you only have a licemnce which covers you up to a 3500kg Motor home.

its a minefield, so you need to do your homework FIRST!!


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Easyriders said:


> All this is very useful. Next spring, we aim to tow a caravan from France to Portugal, using our Adria Twin. Not sure if we should load heavy stuff into the caravan or the MH?


If I have the right van the Adria Twin is a panel conversion, so you should find it has a good towing weight.. But as MrPlodd says, check your license and the weights on the van first...
Ref the caravan, there will be a maximum you can load into it so again take care...!! Balance the load as best you can, Dont stuff it all in the caravan just because its a big empty box..


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, Mrplodd and Tonka.

Mr. E has the right licence, passed his driving test in 1968. Will do all the research on weights etc, and if all looks ok, will get specialist to fit towbar.

We are in Portugal at the moment. Here, all the motorhomes seem to have trailers with smart cars, and all the caravans are towed by big vans, not cars. So hopefully, our van conversion MH should do the job well.

If not, we'll have to borrow daughter's 14 year old Merc E300 Estate car, which has a towbar. It's less economical to run than our MH though!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

"We are in Portugal at the moment" :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Wish I was


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