# CC site availability...again...



## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Yes, it's that old chestnut but things seem to be worse than ever this year.

I've made a conscious decision to use CLs more this year as my new motorhome's more freestanding than the old Avantgarde (plus they're getting outrageously expensive). However as we're into Feb, I thought I'd take a look at what was available in early March on CC club sites, as a matter of interest.

Wow, the situation's worse than ever. Most sites within an easy drive of the NW seem to be fully booked at weekends for the larger part of the year. You expect it with Rowntree Park, but it's spilled into others as well. For example Strid Wood, one of my faves, has only 2 weekends between now and September that aren't fully booked.

I could get onto the subject of charging a deposit, and having a rolling "book in advance" window rather than releasing the whole year on a single date in December, but I'd start to sound like a broken record...

Paul


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi it is really annoying.

It also prevents the booking of a longer stay, if the weekend is in the middle.

The only thing the club said in a recent magazine, was something along the lines of constant no shows will be excluded from booking in the future.

Not CC but an independant site ( only open in summer ) that we use, also seems to have this problem and they constantly lose out on folk booking longer than the weekend due to the Saturday nights always being full. Last summer we met a couple from Ireland they had pitched up their tent on the Tues but had to move off on Saturday.......by Sunday they could have gone back, they moved elsewhere but the site lost out on approx another 6 nights on that one booking just for the sake of the Saturday night.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

on the other side of the coin, as said before, not able to book only one or two days only, including a weekend.

cabby


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

I think the problem is that there are alot more staycations going on due to the current economical climate and so lots staying at home!

We managed to book 2 sites for Oct school hols and another time but it was hard work. 

Don't know what the solution is as charging a deposit like C&CC do does work but CC say that they have very little no shows.

I just want to go away all the time now ....!

Greenie


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## Midnightrambler (Nov 12, 2007)

Perhaps one way would be to make all sites members only. Might free up a few pitches


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The CC committee want to encourage people like them and to maximise
income. Why would a desire to encourage spontaneity, let alone fairness to its membership, be allowed to muddy things?

Dave


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi

I whinged at C & CC asking for a deposit on bookings, but maybe CC should do the same. Seems to me block book it and then if we dont want to go...cancel it !!!!

Cheers

Dave & Jan :evil: :x


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> but CC say that they have very little no shows.


Try asking a few wardens Greenie. They tell a very different story, and they even explain why there are so few no shows, according to Head Office. :roll:

Any cancellation, even a few minutes before closing on the day, is not counted as a no show.

The CC are very clever with the words they use to make it sound as if there's no problem, but every late cancellation (_and apparently by far the majority are very late_) prevents someone from getting the booking they want.

Dave


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## MicknPat (Jul 18, 2005)

Rosbotham said:


> I could get onto the subject of charging a deposit, and having a rolling "book in advance" window rather than releasing the whole year on a single date in December, but I'd start to sound like a broken record...
> 
> Paul


Paul, As long as members like yourself and others who cannot book because of the Caravan Clubs booking system just sound off on internet forums nothing will ever change. 

Now if instead you ALL wrote complaining to the CC about the booking problem then inform the forums of what they'd done who knows?


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

...actually I have complained to head office, as have quite a few others from this board; and completed their survey. Fat lot of good that did...


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## MicknPat (Jul 18, 2005)

Rosbotham said:


> ...actually I have complained to head office, as have quite a few others from this board; and completed their survey. Fat lot of good that did...


Paul, Until I posted and you replied nobody else knew, perhaps your actions will inspire others to also complain, who know there may be 100's prepared to stand up at the next AGM?

Mick


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Dave (D A Burleigh),

Like many other members of this forum, I recognise your erudition and have, in the past, benefited from your advice, most of which seems to be based on a reasoned analysis of empirical evidence.

That being the case, perhaps you could provide the evidence for the assertions contained within your last posting.

I have to say, however, that I would agree with the suggestion of an earlier poster who suggested that more sites should become 'Members Only'. It is in my view simply ridiculous that popular sites like Baltic Wharf should be open to all-comers.


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## Caggsie (Aug 19, 2008)

Although not ideal, I phoned Rowntree last weekend, no go. This week though, I got on. Sometimes phone up a day or two before and should be able to fill some of those no shows, late cancellations. Try it it works most times.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

pomme1 said:


> Dave (D A Burleigh),
> 
> Like many other members of this forum, I recognise your erudition and have, in the past, benefited from your advice, most of which seems to be based on a reasoned analysis of empirical evidence.
> 
> ...


Pomme,

Gosh you sound like Gerald, demanding evidence behind everything I say that isn't liked! 

MHF would be a very sad place if every post had to be justified by evidence. Opinions are fine. As are hypotheses. That post was a bit of both. I would claim that hypothesis fits the observed results, so is valid. I could have offered another valid hypothesis, such as:

"The CC has a policy of being inclusive and equitable to all types of member. For example, it strives to ensure motorhoming members in full-time employment can enjoy our sites as readily as retired caravanners. However the CC is utterly useless at implementation."

Do you prefer that one? What policy and strategy do you think drives the particular implementation that one can book for an entire year ahead with no deposit and no penalty if you cancel the evening before? Or that you can be locked out of the campsite with no late arrival area if you arrive after 8pm on a Friday after work? Why are other campsites not rushing to copy these clever practices?

Dave


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Caggsie said:


> Although not ideal, I phoned Rowntree last weekend, no go. This week though, I got on. Sometimes phone up a day or two before and should be able to fill some of those no shows, late cancellations. Try it it works most times.


What is also a shame, and I know this isn't the CCs fault is that other sites like the CC Beechwood Grange, Knaresborough etc have to close for several weeks after Christmas. They too are always busy at weekends. In this day and age and with a struggling economy it does seem silly that due to certain things councils etc sites have to close when they could be taking money.

I know I am going off topic somewhat but the owner of another independant site near York (Naburn Lock) told me they would love to extend their season, but have been refused permission by the council. She said one of the reasons given that due to it being winter the trees would be bare, and therefore if the site was allowed a longer season caravans etc would be visible to the road users :roll: ( her words not mine ).


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

We rarely book far in advance for the few occasions we use CC main sites unless we have a definite date planned such as a family event.

In the February CC magazine it has a small news item (quote abbreviated):

"Launch day bonanza
On the first day of 2011 bookings over 66,000 reservations were made between 9am and midnight.
. . . 19%up on the previous best 
. . . 52,308 via the website 
. . . The Caravan Club is delighted that so many members were able to make bookings on 8 December . . . 

. . . . The club now asks for a minimum of 72 hours' (sic - apostrophe!) notice before arrival date."

This will not change whilst no deposits or limitations on the number of bookings per member are required.

And as well as non-members fees the seasonal pitches taking up hard stands must be a nice earner.

We will look for cheapish CL's even more.

Steve


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

About the only thing I agree on is the apostrophe (genitive, notice of X hours) and even that is not necessary nowadays 

Dave


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Availability*

Same old gets worse then?

Does anyone know of any similar type of clubs in any Other European country that operate in such a way?

TM


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I really wish all you nasty people would leave the nice Executive Members of the Caravan Club alone.

That's how it has always been done, so it must be the right way to do it.

Shame on you for suggesting they take notice of the dynamic situation and (God forbid!!!!! 8O 8O 8O 8O ) move with the times!

Dave


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> I really wish all you nasty people would leave the nice Executive Members of the Caravan Club alone.
> 
> That's how it has always been done, so it must be the right way to do it.
> 
> ...


Now don't be so silly :wink: they are not all going to rush out and trade in their caravans for motorhomes :lol:


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

I recently complained to the CC about their policy of pre booking with this e mail ;-

_I would like to register my disapproval at the CC booking procedure,at present the situation is ridiculous with members booking all the prime sites at the earliest opportunity and then cancelling at the last minute,meaning genuine members cannot pre book.

The [email protected] system is far better,they charge a deposit of £25 per booking,I think the time is long overdue for the CC to start charging a deposit and stamp out this practice._

This is the reply I received ;-

_
Thank you for your email.

We totally understand your frustrations when trying to make a booking and we are unfortunately a victim of our own success, in that many members take advantage of the Advance Booking service and tend to book their holidays for the forthcoming season as soon as the service opens in December.

We have often debated the question of whether to hold a certain number of pitches in reserve. However, we have never been convinced that this would really serve any useful purpose especially on those sites which are exceptionally busy. We feel that the 'first come, first served' system of pitch bookings is the fairest system to operate.

Clearly the majority of members are like-minded and have the courtesy to cancel bookings thereby freeing up a pitch for their fellow members. The Club endeavours to monitor regular abusers and take the appropriate action.

You may be interested to know that we can and do identify members who block book and then do not turn up. We have already written to several suspending their membership.

The current advance booking system prevents any members booking different sites for the same night. This has reduced some of the abuse.

We are aware that other operators/clubs do charge deposits. However, judging by their published letters, they still encounter the same type of issues. From the Club's own experience we used to charge a deposit for each site booking, however we have not seen any noticeable reduction in "no shows" since we stopped taking deposits.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your constructive comments, which have been noted.

Kind Regards

Tina
Web Contact Team
Caravan Club_

So it looks like there are no plans by the CC to change their current policy as they don't seem to think that there is much wrong with it.

I think the best thing would be for as many people as possible to complain to the CC,then they may possibly look at the situation again.

If anyone else would like to comment on the CC policy of pre booking the e mail address is [email protected]

Don't forget to include your membership number.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

At least you got a reply Steve, and your letter was a lot stroppier than my three which were totally ignored! :roll:

As I said before, they seem to be playing the "semantics" game.

As long as a member cancels a few seconds before the deadline for cancellations on the day of arrival, they are *not *counted as a no-show.

From the statement you copied above, the CC regard *ANY *cancellation as a considerate act to release a pitch for someone else. Quote "_ . . . . the courtesy to cancel bookings thereby freeing up a pitch for their fellow members_"

This fudges their statistics to indicate that there is no problem, because *by their definition* there probably are very few no shows.

For those who can only book a week or few in advance however, what is the difference between a genuine no-show and a last-minute cancellation? _*Either way they will not be able to get a pitch.*_

Dave


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Obviously I favour deposits.

The two other measures I think they should take are;

- rather than having a mad day at the beginning of December, release slots on a rolling basis. So booking for a particular date starts e.g. 7 months before the night in question. That would at least remove the absurdity of website crashes and inability to get through on the phone line etc. In the extract from the magazine they're congratulating themselves for surviving an issue which is entirely of their own making.

- do not allow bookings by non-members until X (e.g. 5) days before the night in question. I wouldn't support saying club sites should be for club members only, because that would mean pitches could be empty when non-members were willing to pay for them. It does seem unfair, though, that there are sites I'd like to go to which are fully booked including people who aren't even members of the club.

There's one other (winter) issue, which I'm not sure is feasible and in some ways could be controversial. For those sites that are open for e.g. 9 months of the year because of planning constraints, is the constraint that they should be closed for 3 continuous months, or that they're only allowed to open for 270 nights a year? If the latter, there may be a logic in some sites opening for weekend nights only during the winter months, and marginally lessen the "full opening" period. Sure, it would mean some midweekers who'd stay in March/November could lose out, and inevitably there'd be some increased costs associated, but at least it would remove the stupidity of there currently being not a single club site open in Cumbria (only all-year one is Meathop, currently closed for refurbishment).

Paul


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

*reply*

The same old arguments keep coming up. I have been a member of the CCC for 3 years and have to pre book as I am restricted to weekends and school holidays because of our kids.Very rarely have I seen multiple empty pitches people keep going on about, and remember sometimes what you wish for is not always the best thing.The CCC is far more restrictive with its minimum night booking and deposits which they hold if you do cancel.The CC are by far the most professional and high standard campsites we have ever stayed in but very rarely get the praise for the good work they do.
Bri


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Fair comment Bri.

I can't speak for others of course, but when I slag off the CC for that one single aspect of their organisation, I usually make a point of stating that we are very happy with all other aspects.

They do run cracking good campsites, and the rules don't bother us at all since they ensure that CC sites are nice places to be . . . just like MHF! :wink: 

I think a good few members feel the same. Great sites, well run, spotless facilities etc., etc., but what a shambles if your circumstances (work! :roll: ) mean you can only book a few weeks ahead.

Dave


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi Paul 

Ref the winter constraints. I think your idea is a really good one.

The other thing I could think of, if it were possible, is if some opened up to Christmas and others from say Christmas onwards......therefore closing for a couple of months before Christmas.

Surely there are a lot of folk that don't go before Christmas due to parties, planning Xmas, shopping etc etc that would be only too pleased to chill out once Xmas is over......ESP as we get to late Jan/Feb and the days are drawing out.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Fair comment Bri.
> 
> I can't speak for others of course, but when I slag off the CC for that one single aspect of their organisation, I usually make a point of stating that we are very happy with all other aspects.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you say Dave until you claim its a shambles because it doesnt suit you personal needs, maybe thats a bit ott ,my circumstances mean I have to book in advance.Most people never praise the CC.Sadly in my opinion the really good points of the CC are too frequently forgotten about in favour of the one negative which crops up again and again.If you take Rowntree park as an example as this is one of the busier sites, and you apply the rules of the CCC many weeks of the year would have to be minimum 5 nights and many weekends minimum 3 nights.Personally that would be far more restrictive than the current set up
Bri


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

brianamelia said:


> I agree with most of what you say Dave until you claim its a shambles because it doesnt suit you personal needs . . .


Not my personal needs Bri. You are accusing me of selfishness which I don't deserve! 8O

We've retired and can go when we like, which almost always means midweek rather than weekends.

We very rarely have a problem getting a pitch for that reason, so I was actually being altruistic.

I think it's a damn shame on those who have real problems getting a pitch because of the selfishness of others who make loads of bookings throughout the year, then cancel the ones they don't want - often at the last minute.

Before sending my three (ignored) letters to the CC I made a point of talking to wardens so I was not shooting in the dark. Some of them were more angry than the members, because they have to deal with the hassle and aggro that it generates.

Dave


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> brianamelia said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with most of what you say Dave until you claim its a shambles because it doesnt suit you personal needs . . .
> ...


Youve completley missed the point I was trying to make I never for one minute accused you of being selfish so where you get that I dont know. I was merely stating that I thought you comment that it was a "shambles because people due to work commitments were unable to book in advance was ott 
Bri


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## jncrowe (Feb 14, 2009)

hi 
my favourite CL is only ten miles from where i live its probably the best cl in the uk but i will never tell anyone where it is its so hard to get in and its terribly selfish but i would never nominate them for best CL or vote etc
not in the spirit of good motorhoming I know !!!
we tend to book our next stay as we leave and sometimes we have to beg and plead to get pencilled in in case of no shows and it amazes me how many times they ring late on friday to let us know they have space for us 
i think you should have to pay full price unless you have a watertight reason for not turning up 
its terribly rude to just not turn up and people should be punished severely 
thats my rant for today im off to watch frost now 
bye 
Cath


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

The way the prices are going up I'm sure there will plenty of pitches soon 

We have just moved to a CL for 4 nights it has elec, water , hardstanding and dump point / manhole 


Its gone upto £15 a night and £18 for american Rvs 


Paul


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Zepp said:


> The way the prices are going up I'm sure there will plenty of pitches soon
> 
> We have just moved to a CL for 4 nights it has elec, water , hardstanding and dump point / manhole
> 
> ...


If you moved there today....is it more because it is Fri we were on Ferry Meadows 2 week ago, and it was more on the Fri and Sat than in the week.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

brianamelia said:


> [Youve completley missed the point I was trying to make I never for one minute accused you of being selfish so where you get that I dont know. I was merely stating that I thought you comment that it was a "shambles because people due to work commitments were unable to book in advance was ott
> Bri


Well sorry Bri, but you said, "_because it doesnt suit you personal needs_".

I took that to mean, "_because it doesn't suit my personal needs_."

Never mind. All's well that ends well.

Dave


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> They do run cracking good campsites, and the rules don't bother us at all since they ensure that CC sites are nice places to be . . .Great sites, well run, spotless facilities


I agree that Caravan Club sites appear to be much better than Camping & Caravanning Club sites.

Now that you have all drawn my attention to how hard it is to book sites, I'm off to book every weekend at a site - I can always cancel it 72 hours beforehand if I change my mind.

Better that than not be able to find a site if I want to go away, especially when all those pesky schoolchildren are off school in the summer and it's hopeless trying to find a site for the weekend.

Thanks all


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

Briarose said:


> Zepp said:
> 
> 
> > The way the prices are going up I'm sure there will plenty of pitches soon
> ...


Week days and weekends are the same price we stayed here just before christmas and it was only £12 a night its gone up by £3 a night

Paul


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

HeatherChloe said:


> Now that you have all drawn my attention to how hard it is to book sites, I'm off to book every weekend at a site - I can always cancel it 72 hours beforehand if I change my mind.
> Better that than not be able to find a site if I want to go away,


I sincerely hope you are joking - althought there is a distinct lack of smileys.

Dave


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> I sincerely hope you are joking - althought there is a distinct lack of smileys.


No I'm not joking.

I wanted to go away for the weekend last August, the weather was nice, and there wasn't a site within 1.5 hours of central London free. It takes me 1 hour just to get to the M25 and if I leave work at 5.30pm and pick up the van and the dog, I'm lucky to get to a site within 30 minutes of the M25 by 7.30pm. So I can't travel all over the country for the weekend - I'm stuck with local sites.

So why shouldn't I book a site?

The policy is quite clear - I can cancel 72 hours beforehand if I don't want to go. That's plenty of time for someone else to use my spot.

Everyone else is booking, so why shouldn't I?

Clearly staying at a Caravan Club site is not something that I can make up my mind to do a few days before, as they'll be full.

It's the same with flights, train tickets, etc. My friends have a house in the South of France and book tickets in advance to fly there every weekend. They don't go every weekend, but they have tickets to go every weekend. If they waited to see if they wanted to go, there'd be no flights, or they'd be really expensive.

It's the just the same. Them's the rules, that's the way that the Caravan Club have set it up.

I'm off to book my sites!


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

oh yes, by the way - the Caravan Club works out loads cheaper for me than commercial sites

That's because as a solo traveller, I only pay for one adult - fabulous!

Most commercial sites I've been to charge me for the pitch which includes 2 adults and is therefore expensive to me.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> brianamelia said:
> 
> 
> > [Youve completley missed the point I was trying to make I never for one minute accused you of being selfish so where you get that I dont know. I was merely stating that I thought you comment that it was a "shambles because people due to work commitments were unable to book in advance was ott
> ...


Apology accepted no offence taken I guess this will always be an immotive subject
Bri


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

That's for sure; the CC isn't going to budge on this one!

Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

HeatherChloe said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> > I sincerely hope you are joking - althought there is a distinct lack of smileys.
> ...


I am lost for words!!

Dave


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> HeatherChloe said:
> 
> 
> > Zebedee said:
> ...


I've stayed out of this one so far because I'm a member of C & CC & I quite happily accept their site booking & deposit rules. However I can't understand, Dave, why you are lost for words at HeatherChloe's post. Isn't she only admitting to doing publicly what hundreds of CC members seem to be doing anonymously (as far as the rest of their membership is concerned) already i.e. the whole point of this thread?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

jimmyd0g said:


> [I can't understand, Dave, why you are lost for words at HeatherChloe's post.


Hi Jimmy

Agreed - at least she is honest!!!

I was just a bit nonplussed when she said, _"Now that you have all drawn my attention to how hard it is to book sites, I'm off to book every weekend at a site"_

A bit ironic that all throughout this thread members have been condemning that practice, then HeatherChloe thanks us for helping her do the same.

Maybe it's just my old fashioned sense of values . . . or senility? 8O

Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

P.S. Jimmy

Off topic, but how on earth do you quickly find a site in the C&CC big (now small) book?

I must be missing something 'cos it takes me ages.

Dave

P.S. If you would be kind enough to send me a PM I'll remove this off topic post.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

You can't blame Heatherchleo at all. The only thing is if she does this and then also a lot of cancellations would she risk her membership ? Or would she be ok as long as she cancelled ? Rather than just a no show.

I guess the old saying of 'if you can't beat them join them' applies. And until the CC come up with a better way of running the booking system, I suspect more folk will take that attitude.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Briarose said:


> You can't blame Heatherchleo at all. The only thing is if she does this and then also a lot of cancellations would she risk her membership ? Or would she be ok as long as she cancelled ? Rather than just a no show.
> 
> I guess the old saying of 'if you can't beat them join them' applies. And until the CC come up with a better way of running the booking system, I suspect more folk will take that attitude.


Can't argue with you there Nette.

I'm sure you are right, but the more people who do this the worse it gets . . . and they are exacerbating their own problems! :roll:

Why can't (more likely "won't") the CC Executive understand this and do something about it. There are a number of measures which would ease the situation for everybody concerned, including the Club.

Dave

P.S. I doubt if HeatherChloe would risk her membership, and she would get a warning before any action was taken anyway.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> > You can't blame Heatherchleo at all. The only thing is if she does this and then also a lot of cancellations would she risk her membership ? Or would she be ok as long as she cancelled ? Rather than just a no show.
> ...


I agree with you Dave.......And that would be the solution, but they don't seem to want to admit that it is a problem. Whilst most of the CC Wardens we have spoken to admit that it is a problem, and I would imagine that they probably get fed up of hearing about it too, so like us would love a solution.

I def think non members should not be allowed to pre book ESP at busy times,and cannot understand why that would be allowed really.


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

HeatherChloe said:


> Them's the rules, that's the way that the Caravan Club have set it up.
> 
> I'm off to book my sites!


Good luck but, unfortunately, I think that your are probably 2 months too late to achieve your objectives!!

As you say, "Them's the rules" but that is exactly what will prevent you achieving your stated objective (at this point in time).


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Shoot me down in flames if you like but can I please ask, what is the appeal of staying on a CC or C&CC site or in fact any campsite? I just dont get it. Motorhomes are designed to be self Sufficient for serveral days, why do you all fight for a place on a regimented site where you are all in a line and governerd by a plethora of rules?

Why dont you do a bit of research and find a lovely wild spot on the top of a mountain, by a lake or by the sea and have a proper motorhome experience? Or use a CL for a fiver which always have space?

Campsites are for tents and tuggers. You spent a fortune on your pride and joy, now go and use it and park it somewhere nice!  

Please dont think I am having a go at anyone as I am the last person to do that but just consider doing something different. We never book anything, just head off and if we cant find a wild spot we drive to the nearest CL or CS.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

barryd said:


> Shoot me down in flames if you like but can I please ask, what is the appeal of staying on a CC or C&CC site or in fact any campsite? I just dont get it. Motorhomes are designed to be self Sufficient for serveral days, why do you all fight for a place on a regimented site where you are all in a line and governerd by a plethora of rules?
> 
> Why dont you do a bit of research and find a lovely wild spot on the top of a mountain, by a lake or by the sea and have a proper motorhome experience? Or use a CL for a fiver which always have space?
> 
> ...


Absolutely Barry. I think we read from the same hymn book, I hate all that regimented stuff and all those flipping rules they throw at you, I haven't done a club site yet in three and a half years and have no intentions of doing so either. By the way, I belong to both the big clubs but, only their cl's & cs's appeal to us.

Steve


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Briarose said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> > Briarose said:
> ...


Maybe the CC dont have a problem and are happy with the situation or they would of changed it.People tend to respond to the questions posed and im pretty sure wardens dont make a point of going to members complaining about the booking system. 
I do agree non members should not be allowed to pre book
Bri


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

My father is a CC committee member in one of the regional areas. Charging deposits has been considered and negated. They believe it will cost more to administrate than income received from it.

Currently the CC are not too unhappy with the current situation as most sites are booked with enough units attending and is still turning a profit so the no shows are carried. 

They are aware of the issue where certain individuals book an entire years worth of weekends to guarantee a space but may only attend a few weekends a year.

As of yet though no action is being taken. There has been some discussion on punitive action, but no decision as yet. 

As is usual, the rest of us suffer for the few selfish ones.

Personally I am considering whether my membership is worth it. I consider that the site fees for many sites are now excessive, you often cannot book even a month ahead as the online booking system shows it fully booked and you can forget last minute "Let's go away this weekend", so we often wildcamp or use CLs.

I have only ever been asked for my membership card once in the dozens of times I have stayed on official CLs, so the membership fee seems even less attractive in that case!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for that Andy.



Andysam said:


> Currently the CC are not too unhappy with the current situation as most sites are booked with enough units attending and is still turning a profit so the no shows are carried.


I suspect this is the root of OUR problem.

The CC don't have a problem of course, because (as your Dad says) they are usually almost fully booked and turning in a healthy profit.

It's a problem for the members, not the club.

Silly me . . . I used the word "_Club_", which it isn't any more. It's simply a profit making business.

Dave


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

I wonder if some sort of Facebook campaign designed to encourage a mass protest resignation could force a change of policy.


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> So why shouldn't I book a site?
> 
> The policy is quite clear - I can cancel 72 hours beforehand if I don't want to go. That's plenty of time for someone else to use my spot.
> 
> Everyone else is booking, so why shouldn't I?


You're quite right of course- those are the rules and why shouldn't you?

Just the same as supermarkets have a free 2 hr parking period. In that case however, I suspect that if you turned up to do your shopping but couldn't park because people had parked there and gone elsewhere for the 2 hrs you would be most unhappy...but the rules do allow that.

I'm not on a one man crusade, but if everyone did the "book every weekend" scenerio without attending, how long would there be a club?

Not getting at you, as you have already quite correctly stated it's allowed; just trying to point out that some people are unable to go away when they can't book a site because it's already booked by people who might want to but know they won't really go, but might fancy it; you know just in case something changes!

ATB


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

I have just been talking to Sonesta (she can't post right now so I have her permission to do so).

One of Sue's relatives is getting a new MH this week. They told Sue they were going to Clumber Park, well funny enough we had been thinking we might go away this weekend and only two days ago I had checked CC on line and as my own Sister lives near Nottingham I had noticed that Clumber Park was showing full.

Anyway when Sue mentioned Clumber Park I immediately asked 'had they booked it' Sue said 'she didn't know' she then rang and asked her relatives who said 'no'.

So straight away they rang Clumber Park, who stated that there was plenty of room. Sue again checked on line and it was indeed still showing booked fully. Just out of interest this morning it was showing booked so Sue rang herself and again was told plenty of availability.

Now I know that we here on MHF are aware that this can happen, and it is best to ring.........but I wonder how many members of the CC simply trust what the online info is showing.......not everyone reads and posts on forums.

*Brian to answer your post. 

I never stated that wardens approached folk complaining about the booking system.

I based my post on a conversation ( for obvious reasons I won't say where ). The conversation was a personal one in a social venue & there were us and a couple of other caravanners talking to some wardens who were off duty for a few weeks before taking up their next post, along with another couple who were wardens too. 

Amongst other caravan/motorhome discussions this was a topic we discussed between us all. One of the Wardens said they wished more folk would write to the CC about it. I assume from the conversation that they too would like to see a solution.


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

Another 'simple' solution (no doubt it has flaws). Why doesn't CC simply allow a maximum number of bookings on one site at one time - followed by a time embargo? e.g. the member can book up to three weekends (of their choice) for any given location at one time. The member is then embargoed for three months from booking any more weekend time at the same location. The embargoing should be fairly easy to set up on a computer system. With an embargo it would allow other members, who aren't as quick off the mark or as savvy, to get bookings in for the more popular locations.


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Briarose said:


> I have just been talking to Sonesta (she can't post right now so I have her permission to do so).
> 
> One of Sue's relatives is getting a new MH this week. They told Sue they were going to Clumber Park, well funny enough we had been thinking we might go away this weekend and only two days ago I had checked CC on line and as my own Sister lives near Nottingham I had noticed that Clumber Park was showing full.
> 
> ...


I never said you stated wardens approached folk complaining about the booking system
Bri


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Brian I was referring to your earlier post that quoted what I had said.

Anyway I would play ping pong but I just can't find my bat :wink: :lol:


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## brianamelia (Mar 17, 2008)

Briarose said:


> Brian I was referring to your earlier post that quoted what I had said.
> 
> Anyway I would play ping pong but I just can't find my bat :wink: :lol:


I wasnt playing ping pong simply stating I never said what you thought I said.
Bri


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

brianamelia said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> > Brian I was referring to your earlier post that quoted what I had said.
> ...


Spoilsport :lol: :wink:


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## Gwendolyn (Jan 11, 2011)

I too find the CC policy utterly frustrating. 
Last year, I booked, with some difficulty, 12 nights in April on a site in Yorkshire using our caravan - pre motorhome purchase. [With difficulty as, at first, the weekend in the middle was fully booked, but eventually I did manage to link the 2 lots of 5 days]. 
Sadly, we had to cancel as my Mother-in-Law passed away. 
When everything had settled a bit, we tried to re-book the site for 12 nights in early June. The same problem arose. Weekends fully booked. 
I rang the site booking line to see if, by chance, some pitches were held over for members wanting more than a weekend stay. 
I was told, tartly, by the person to whom I spoke, "You should book earlier!" 
Very helpful and understanding! 
In the end we gave up and went to the West Country for 2 weeks staying on 2 of our favourite C&CC sites. We are hardly likely to want to drive, towing, from deepest West Wales to Yorkshire for 5 nights on the off chance the weekend would be freed up.

I have written to the CC and got a rather dismissive reply saying, amongst other things, that all members have parity. In my judgement all members do not have parity, since people wishing to book 1 week / 2 weeks stays are prevented from so doing by the members who block book weekends.

There have been suggestions here, and on other forums, as to how this can be eased. Surely it is not beyond the wit of the CC to devise a system? Perhaps some pitches could be held off sale, and only made available for members wanting more than a weekend until nearer the dates? Or allow members to book only a certain number of weekends in a particular time frame; or on a particular site. After that they are blocked from doing so until a later date? Or after X number of weekend bookings they have to pay in full for any others?

Can it be that hard if the will is there?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Can it be that hard if the will is there?"

Gwendolyn,

I think you already know the answer!

You've already had their "justification" - its the same for everybody, so learn the lesson and book earlier.

Sigh....

Dave


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps I have maligned the CC. Their approach of same for everybody has merit. I think everyone should pay 13% tax. It's fair; perhaps not as fair as everyone paying the same £, but even I am progressive 

I'm sure we could all think of examples of how this country would be run if the CC Exec were in charge. If you are due at work at 8:30am in the morning, if there is no sign of life 45 mins beforehand, the boys will be round knocking on your door. Etc.

I'm positive one of them must be in charge of our allotments. He exasperates fellow allotment keepers and makes them laugh in equal measures with his totally OTT rules, interpretation and enforcement. Perhaps he failed police exams and never got over it.

Dave


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Andysam said:


> Just the same as supermarkets have a free 2 hr parking period. In that case however, I suspect that if you turned up to do your shopping but couldn't park because people had parked there and gone elsewhere for the 2 hrs you would be most unhappy...but the rules do allow that.
> 
> I'm not on a one man crusade, but if everyone did the "book every weekend" scenerio without attending, how long would there be a club?
> 
> ...


I think supermarkets have free 2 hr parking because it takes 2 hrs to do supermarket shopping.

I never drive to the supermarket anyway - I walk with my wheelie shopping trolley.

Just to clarify, the rule is that you have to cancel within 72 hours. Obviously I would do that!

The sites usually have a waiting list, so people would know 3 days in advance that they have been able to get in - the site would be full, and the waiting list people would get in.

Anyway, most of the time, I'd probably actually go.


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> Andysam said:
> 
> 
> > Just the same as supermarkets have a free 2 hr parking period. In that case however, I suspect that if you turned up to do your shopping but couldn't park because people had parked there and gone elsewhere for the 2 hrs you would be most unhappy...but the rules do allow that.
> ...


That's big of you! There is no "waiting list" waiting to be informed of a vacancy, most people who wanted to go and fully intended to turn up would by that time, in frustration, have had to make other not so suitable arrangements. OK the the rules are there but are meant to cater for members who HAVE to cancel for some over-riding reason. Why not follow the spirit and not the letter?


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

HeatherChloe said:


> I'm off to book every weekend at a site - I can always cancel it 72 hours beforehand if I change my mind.
> 
> Better that than not be able to find a site if I want to go away,......... and it's hopeless trying to find a site for the weekend.
> 
> Thanks all


So, did you manage to make all those bookings? Or did the current set-up prevent you?

Just curious :wink:


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Noel said:


> That's big of you! There is no "waiting list" waiting to be informed of a vacancy, most people who wanted to go and fully intended to turn up would by that time, in frustration, have had to make other not so suitable arrangements.


Well that's not what I've been told. When I tried to book Tanner Farm in August because my friends were having a housewarming party about 1 mile away, they told me that they were full and already had a waiting list that was longer than the typical number of people who didn't show up.

They said that I could call back 72 hours before and see if anyone else had cancelled - which I did, and they were still full. I called them each day (Wed, Thur, Fri) and each time they were full.

In the event, I drove there on the day and sure enough there were people who had NOT given the 72 hours notice or any notice at all, and I was able to get onto the site.

So it seems to me that the problem is people who don't give the 72 hours notice and just don't show up, rather than people who book and then cancel giving 72 hours notice.



Noel said:


> OK the the rules are there but are meant to cater for members who HAVE to cancel for some over-riding reason. Why not follow the spirit and not the letter?


Noel - do you have some special insight as to what the rules are there for? Is the reason behind the rules written down somewhere? Because I can't find them and I don't believe you are right.

The reason for the rules is that you should give 72 hours notice so that there is plenty of time for someone else to fill the spot. If you give that notice you are following the rules and you are making sure that someone can use the spot.


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## CliffyP (Dec 19, 2008)

Why don't we *all* book an agreed site for a weekend, and all cancel at the last minute. They will only do something when they start to lose money :wink:

The simple answer is no more than Three seperate bookings at at time, unless on consecutive dates that are clearly a trip/holiday. Then everyone gets a chance :roll:


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

[quote="HeatherChloe

Noel - do you have some special insight as to what the rules are there for? Is the reason behind the rules written down somewhere? Because I can't find them and I don't believe you are right.

The reason for the rules is that you should give 72 hours notice so that there is plenty of time for someone else to fill the spot. If you give that notice you are following the rules and you are making sure that someone can use the spot.[/quote]

A lot of people would like to plan ahead a lot further than 72 hrs to maybe fit in with holidays they can only take at fixed dates, to then log on to find that very weekend is booked all year by selfish individuals who may or may not turn up depending on whether they feel like it is frustrating in the extreme.

No "special insight" just a normal insight to what is right.


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi
If we were renting a holiday cottage, we would generally expect to book saturday to saturday. this allows a full 52 weeks per year availability. 
Because as campers we are allowed flexible booking periods, some people when booking a weeks holiday include both weekends. This if continued through the year would give 26 weeks availability and 26 5day breaks, on each pitch. i e a shortage of free weekends. This combined with the people who can only book weekends because of work commitments, would result in the sort of availability screens you get when searching on club sites. 
They show all the weekends full and weekdays available, which I think is caused mainly by the flexibility that we all wish for, being used by the early birds, as it was probably intended.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Have a look at the CC late availability for this weekend on the sites that are open at this time of year (apart from Sandringham) there is very little available for tomorrow night. I wonder how many folk won't turn up and more importantly just how many members of the CC won't go away based on that information.


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

Briarose said:


> ........and more importantly just how many members of the CC won't go away based on that information.


Exactly :evil:


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

Silly question, this topic seems comes up often why do you guys bother with such an organisation? the sites we have seen more often appear soulless and more like municipal carparks with attendant traffic wardens(my opinion)If you dont like something vote with your feet !!! dont forget to let the CC Oligarchs know what you think of their no deposit booking system.

Chris


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Codfinger said:


> Silly question, this topic seems comes up often why do you guys bother with such an organisation? the sites we have seen more often appear soulless and more like municipal carparks with attendant traffic wardens(my opinion)If you dont like something vote with your feet !!! dont forget to let the CC Oligarchs know what you think of their no deposit booking system.
> 
> Chris


We use the sites because they have quite a Network of them open in the Winter ( we are able to use MH more in Winter than Summer due to business). We prefer hardstanding at that time of year and usually find them clean and nice facilities etc.

Plus our Son and Wife have a tourer and CC sites are good for them with two small children.

I must admit one of the other things I like is, you don't tend to find sites full of seasonal tourers, I find that quite depressing on some independent sites. Also these days on the independents you can find yourselves in the middle of tourers folk are living in and heading off to work early striking up cars etc at the crack of dawn (or earlier). So I actually find on CC sites there can be more atmosphere as in everyone is on holiday. Apart from the odd occasion.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

I am about to cancel a weekend booking at Baltic Wharf in 5 minutes if any one can make use of it. The date is 18th March to 20th March (2 nights) Something has cropped up so we can't go. Ps this is the first time i have cancelled a booking.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

barryd said:


> Shoot me down in flames if you like but can I please ask, what is the appeal of staying on a CC or C&CC site or in fact any campsite? I just dont get it. Motorhomes are designed to be self Sufficient for serveral days, why do you all fight for a place on a regimented site where you are all in a line and governerd by a plethora of rules?
> 
> Why dont you do a bit of research and find a lovely wild spot on the top of a mountain, by a lake or by the sea and have a proper motorhome experience? Or use a CL for a fiver which always have space?
> 
> ...


I agree with you Barry and I must confess that by and large, most campsites in general leave me cold! :?

Having said that - we do use campsites more than we used to do these days but that is mostly due to us now owning a 30 foot vehicle. Our previous 2 motorhomes were not quite as long as this one, so sadly the drawback of having a larger vehicle is that we cannot be quite so spontanious as we once were!  I love our current motorhome and we don't want to change it but I must admit, I do miss not being quite so free as we used to be with a slightly smaller van! However, that said - we do still wildcamp when and where we can and in my opinon, nothing can beat the pure exhiliration of finding a nice secluded spot with breathtaking views and pitching up there for the night and sad to say, there are very few campsites that we have come across that can offer anything like the same experience! As you say Barry, this is the real beauty of owning a motorhome as having everything on board is what allows us all to be so independant and it was exactly this kind of freedom to roam, that made us want a motorhome in the first place.

We have wildcamped in some fantastic locations, especially when travelling in and around europe and most of our more exciting adventures and our most memorable experiences would definitely NOT have happened if we had stayed on campsites all of the time!

Ooh - all this talk is making me want to get in the van right this minute and just head off somewhere ......... ANYWHERE!!! 

Sue


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

We also very rarely use a campsite as we don't want to be looking out at another M/H or more often a caravan  
We do find some very nice locations even in the UK but here we have to be very careful due to the Yob element and I must admit that I always have one ear open, not eye as I can't sleep with my eyes open :wink: 
Well worth it when you see the sunset or sunrise over the water 

Equally, I think that if someone can't relax wilding and they feel happier on a site then that is what they should do as it's all about enjoyment and relaxation.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Last year we only managed five days away. We would have loved to have made the break longer. Each cc site I contacted in the area we wanted to vissit could only accomodate us Monday to Friday.
Rather disgruntled I did make a complaint. After 24 years as a member I have never not turned up at a site.
The reply I recieved basically informed me tat a first come first serve policy will be maintained.

*I wonder how many MHFacts members are reading this topic with a smug smile on their face, knowing that they have booked a seasons worth of weekends..*

I appreciate that it is dificult to set rules that will be of benefit to everyone.

My brother in law was a cc member up to 12 years ago when he had a caravan.
He has not been a member since but has nor dificulty getting onto CLs at the weekend.
He still uses his old cc membership book.

Dave p


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

teamsaga said:


> Hi
> If we were renting a holiday cottage, we would generally expect to book saturday to saturday. this allows a full 52 weeks per year availability.


Centerparcs doesn't work like that. You book your holiday cottage for the weekend, or for the weekdays, or for both, making a week. Changeover days are Friday and Monday.


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> teamsaga said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


Don't think anyone has a problem with whatever system is used. If someone wants to book every weekend fine, _if they fully intend to turn up and then make every effort to_.

The rule says "Members unable to take up their bookings are asked........etc" The key word is *unable* i.e. not just because they can't be a***d and in the meantime have made someone else, who need a longer security than 72 hours, make other arrangements or give up.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Grath said:


> Equally, I think that if someone can't relax wilding and they feel happier on a site then that is what they should do as it's all about enjoyment and relaxation.


Exactly! It's all about doing whatever suits one best and there are no right or wrong ways when it comes to motorhoming. As long as we are all having an enjoyable time and relaxing that's the main thing! 

Sue


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> *I wonder how many MHFacts members are reading this topic with a smug smile on their face, knowing that they have booked a seasons worth of weekends..*
> Dave p


*and I wonder how many have bothered to read page 6 of January's CC magazine.*

peedee


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

peedee said:


> *and I wonder how many have bothered to read page 6 of January's CC magazine.* peedee


And of those who did read it Pete, what percentage will take any notice???

A rhetorical question - no need for an answer. :roll: :lol:

Dave


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Judging from the comments in this thread, not a lot!

peedee


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

I suspect that the people who book up in advance and then cancel at the last minute or just don't turn up, have the same selfish, self centred mentality as those folk who push in, in front of people in a queue or who jump up so they can be first off an aeroplane, bus or ferry etc! They just think of number one at all times and show little regard, respect or manners to others around them! Sad but true! 

This has probably been suggested already in earlier posts but in my opinion, a fairer system would be to take a deposit at the time of booking that is non refundable if cancelled within 24 hours of arrival date and I bet those that tend to go around booking up popular dates weeks in advance, would then only book sites they were absolutely genuine about staying on? A lot of independent campsites ask for full payment or a deposit when you book a pitch weeks in advance with them and I guess it is people like this, who fail to turn up etc, that swforces them to make such rules??? 

Sue


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Sonesta said:


> I suspect that the people who book up in advance and then cancel at the last minute or just don't turn up, have the same selfish, self centred mentality as those folk who push in, in front of people in a queue or who jump up so they can be first off an aeroplane, bus or ferry etc! They just think of number one at all times and show little regard, respect or manners to others around them! Sad but true!
> 
> This has probably been suggested already in earlier posts but in my opinion, a fairer system would be to take a deposit at the time of booking that is non refundable if cancelled within 24 hours of arrival date and I bet those that tend to go around booking up popular dates weeks in advance, would then only book sites they were absolutely genuine about staying on? A lot of independent campsites ask for full payment or a deposit when you book a pitch weeks in advance with them and I guess it is people like this, who fail to turn up etc, that swforces them to make such rules???
> 
> Sue


Well I booked Tanner Farm, a CC club site. They took a deposit of £20 which is non refundable AT ALL. That is to say, even if I cancelled with a month's notice, I don't get it back.

For the weekends in the school holidays, I don't mind paying for every weekend in advance. I don't care if I don't get it back if I then don't go - I just want to be able to go if I want to, and am happy to pay for that option.

Also, I've paid for three nights at Tanner Farm - I'm not staying Sunday night, but I am fed up of having to pack up and leave by 12 noon. I'd rather head for home about 6pm. If that costs me another £20, then that's the way it is.

I'm going to pay for three nights all summer so I can stay as late as I like on a Sunday and not feel stressed or guilty.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Tanner Farm's an affiliated site, hence sets its own policies hence the deposit.

On the remainder of your post, I think we've got pretty much unanimity on the point of deposits amongst the MHF community.

As for booking 3 nights / staying 2 ....we've discussed that before now & it's exactly what I do - I want a weekend away in the summer, not 3/4 of one...

Paul


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

A friend of mine has a CL in Cornwall and has had to introduce a deposit by card over the phone on booking system because of the number of no shows he was getting.

John


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> Well I booked Tanner Farm, a CC club site. They took a deposit of £20 which is non refundable AT ALL. That is to say, even if I cancelled with a month's notice, I don't get it back.
> 
> For the weekends in the school holidays, I don't mind paying for every weekend in advance. I don't care if I don't get it back if I then don't go - I just want to be able to go if I want to, and am happy to pay for that option.
> 
> ...


I think once again - it's all a case of doing what suits you best and if you are happy with how you book and pay for your campsite pitches then that's all that matters really. It's your dosh and you can spend it however you please! I too hate having to pack up and be off by a certain time and this is why I prefer to wild camp - but on average, I must say that most campsites we've stayed on have been fairly flexible re departure times and unless it coincides with a busy bank holiday or something, we've found most campsites give you a bit of leeway! 

It's not people like yourself Heather who cause the problems anyway, it's those who just randomly book up pitches just in case they fancy that date or that particular bank holiday weekend etc! I think most of us just find it a bit frustrating to learn that although the CC and C&CC websites might show their pitches as all being fully booked up, often when you actually ring the site direct, you discover they still have plenty of pitch availability. This is down to many members booking pitches way in advance and then not showing up or ringing up to cancel at the very last minute! If they all had to pay in full or maybe pay a non refundable deposit every time, then I am sure the percentage of members doing this would drop dramatically; thus making their website booking system far more accurate!

Sue


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

They should give Sunday at half price especially as most weekenders can't/don't get to site until after 18:00 on the Friday. Unfortunately some sites have the early leaving time due to narrow access


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