# Delamination & quality



## Carl_n_Flo

Hi all....I am new to this site although not new to motor caravanning having participated man and child since 1972.
My father bought a Bedford Bedouin back then and for 8 years we toured europe (until i started work in 1980). Then, last year, my wife and I bought an Auto-Sleeper Rambler (on a Talbot chassis) primarily so that we could escape now and then with the dog from the rat race of work.
However, since november last year, I have been working during the week in London but my home is inthe west country, so have been using the 'van as a base during the week. As you can imagine, this is cosy to say the least.
SO....now is the time to start the search for our dream RV.

Having scanned the site of US dealers there appears to be plenty available BUT......some I have seen appear to have delamination problems with the sides of the vehicles.   

Is this a common problem? Is this something I should be seriously worried about? Is it something that can be easily fixed? (I have a feeling it is not!!!) :? 

Early days at the moment...but definitly going to import. I consider the prices of some of the early '90s stock available here to be WAY over the top (especially when I have see a gorgeous Pace Arrow (1993 vintage) with all the toys and space (34ft) for £12k (equivalent) in Florida. 8) 

Over to you guys to put me on the straight and narrow!!!!!
regards
Carl (& Gill & Harley the dog!!!)


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## Maxonian

Hi Carl (& Gill & Harley the dog!!!)

We owned a '96 SunVoyager that started to delaminate when it was about 4 years old. The first signs are ripples on the surface.

We sold it before it got too bad. 

Avoid RVs with this problem like the plague.

And yes, UK RV dealer prices are way over the top. But this probably doesn't come as a surprise to you.

Good hunting

Raymond


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## Anonymous

I'm Sorry to say. But you will be lucky to find any RV's from the USA that do NOT suffer from Delamination. It's a common problem caused by the heat changes. It only becomes a worry if it is caused by damp penetration. Any you find without delamination, will, when they get to this country possibly start to have some. Just my tuppence worth.


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## ingram

> Early days at the moment...but definitly going to import. I consider the prices of some of the early '90s stock available here to be WAY over the top (especially when I have see a gorgeous Pace Arrow (1993 vintage) with all the toys and space (34ft) for £12k (equivalent) in Florida


This is not 'my subject' but I believe that some American RVs are wider than the maximum permitted width on British ( and European??) roads so check that out and take care. I *think* the max. permittted width is 8' 2" but not sure on that.

Harvey


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## Carl_n_Flo

> I'm Sorry to say. But you will be lucky to find any RV's from the USA that do NOT suffer from Delamination.


   ooh errr!! I dont like the sound of that...... seems like I am going to have to tread carefully on this one.

As to maximum width, I am reliably informed that 100" is the magical number (8'4" = 2.53m). I cannot say that the american websites are too helpful in this regard as they appear more concerned with length and never mind the width!!!!   

We shall persevere.......
carl


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## Maxonian

The max. width is 2550 mm (100.4"). RVs are typically 96" wide (standard) or 102" wide (wide bodied).

However, check out this:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2455/bramhill-v-edwards.htm

This is a well reported case about an RV which was 102" wide. I particularly like the reference to the 'Nelson Touch' defence.

Raymond


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## 94302

My advice Carl would be to go the states and look at what you are buying and test all systems before importing.I have read somewhere of a dealer buying from Lazydays in Florida on their description only and importing blind (wow scary) .There is so much to choose from and best of all diesels are getting cheaper,a much better choice than a gas guzzler


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## Anonymous

All I can say is that I bought from a USA dealer sight unseen except for photos. I am quite happy that I got my money's worth. 8)


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## 88883

I agree about petrol vehicles being gas guzzlers, however I have two questions.

What is the average mpg of a diesel ?

Why not buy petrol and have an LPG conversion done, wouldn't that be better than a diesel ?

Chris


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## chellaman

Yes, petrol RVs are gas-guzzlers, but they are quiet and clean.
I have seen claims of 15mpg for diesel, and petrol is about half that.
However, I have an LPG conversion. Although the price of LPG is kept low throughout Europe, averaging about 54p per litre, the consumption is a bit higher. There are other claimed advantages such as quieter, less engine wear, virtually clean exhaust, lower maintenance, cleaner engine oil.
Some sites I have seen show LPG to be more economical than diesel, but you still have to earn back the cost of fitting(mine 2700GBP).
Unfortunately, in Spain where I live, there are not many stations but, elsewhere they are fairly abundant and you can plan your journeys to suit. Anyway, I don't intend to travel in Spain!


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## chellaman

Cornishman, I can confirm that there is a dealer buying from Lazydays by description alone. I am so gullible that, having looked at very many RVs,
I bought one due to its extra smart condition. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite as good as it looked! When I've finished doing what needs doing, then I shall have a beaut. But, the HEARTACHE!!!
In my opinion, the problem is that there is so much to check and inspect on an RV, that dealers just don't even bother at all!!
I spend some time reading the Open Roads Forum on Woodalls site, and I get the impression that there are very few RVs without problems, even new ones(maybe, especially new ones).
An American in the RV business recently told me that "they just ain't built how they awda be built" Nuff said.


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## 88883

Please name the dealer

forewarned is forearmed

thanks

chris


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## chellaman

Chris,
I already gave you the name privately on another thread.
Please don't give it out. I will divulge the name when I am finally out of their clutches!


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## Anonymous

One last point to be made. Yes most USA RV's imports have problems. But a saving of 25% to 40% on the cost of buying from a dealer here, goes a long long way to putting any defects right. I paid top money 4 1/2 years ago for a 31ft RV from a UK dealer. It looked fantastic and everything worked when I took it away. All I will say about it, is I had 4 years of repairs and expense. Even some of the repairs had to be repaired. My son now does all the repairs along with myself. I will always in future import and prepare RV's myself. 8)


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## 88883

Thanks Chellaman

I remember  

Do you feel able to list the problems you've found with your vehicle, so we know what to look for when purchasing ?

Chris


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## Arizona

Hi There

We bought directly from the US but not from a dealer from a private individual. During our search we found that private sellers were in general more honest and helpful than the dealers. You can get AAA the US version of AA to due a full inspection for about $300. 

We have a gas guzzling 7.4 litre V8 and get about 12/14 to the gallon. We looked at converting to LPG but calculated we would have to do 20,000 plus miles before we got the cost of the coversion back. A friend has a Diesel RV, he is a mechanic, has modified the engine of his rig and gets 15/16 mpg when he got it MPG was 6/8. The US diesels are not as efficient as the Europeans. The newer ones ie 2003 on are probably more so. 

We have our's here over a year in the rain and the snow and so far no delamination. 

regards

Arizona


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## chellaman

Never heard of a claim of 14/15 mpg on petrol.
Is it an extreme lightweight?


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## Arizona

No, it's a 32 ft 
14/15 mpg on diesel not petrol.


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## Anonymous

I never heard of 12 to 14mpg for a Chevy 7.4 V8. Claimed, yes. Fact, no. 7 to 9 is a more realistic claim. I'm not being funny but do you push it up hill and free wheel down hill? :? Also your estimate of 20000 miles to recuperate your cost of LPG conversion needs to be re-calculated. 8O I have no connection with any LPG installation company, but I have had an LPG conversion and it was well worth the money.


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## Arizona

Not quite! We go easy on the gas pedal! We calculated our mpg on a 1000 miles we covered on a 10 day trip last summer. We travelled a lot of narrow roads that you would not travel any more than 30 mph. On the bigger roads we would travel 50/60. It's very easy to burn up the gas, one good rev and that's a tenner gone!! When it arrived from the states we were getting 8/9 but the engine was running very high once we changed that the mpg improved.

As for the LPG conversion, we were very keen but made our decision on the quote we received for the conversion the cost of LPG and the estimated consumption per mile.

As for our friend with the diesel rig. He modified the engine after talking to the manufacturer in the US. A year later the manufacturer called him, asked had it been a success and then asked if he would tell them how to do the modification!!

regards

Arizona


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## Anonymous

Well Arizona I congratulate you on the use of your right foot. But just on that 1 trip of 1000 miles. Based on you gettting 12 to 14 mpg. You would have saved around £150 based on 10 to 12 mpg on LPG. If you do 4000 miles a year? That would be £600 saved. If you kept your motorhome for 4 years you would surely have recovered the cost. It would also have been much better for the enironment. 8)
With regard to your friend and his modification to his diesel engined RV. He surely must go to market and start making a lot of money. People are crying out for things to cut down the cost of RV'ing.


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