# Panel Van Conversion - front lounge vs rear lounge



## jrr

Hi all,

first query from a newbie.

We're homing in on a PVC as our first m/home. The basic variations of these seem to be a front/midships lounge area with rear kitchen, or vice-versa.

I'd be interested to hear what folks views on the pluses/minuses of each arrangement are. At the NEC last week we were both impressed by the Vantage Sol. Since second-hand Vantages are rarer than rocking-horse droppings, we need to consider alternatives. 

We did look at a lot of models, and have some thoughts on what we think are the upsides/downsides, but would be interested in the views of wiser and more experienced folks.

Cheers


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## ActiveCampers

We have a small 4.8m PCV with front lounge, an we find it works for us. 

Benefit of front lounge is more efficient use of space, whereas rear lounge needs more room (doesn't use front seats). Also you lose the open space of the large side door.

The benefit of rear lounge, is probably bigger lounge, easier to make bed, bed can stay up, split front/rear space.

So really depends on what you intend to use it for and how big you are 

We have friends with a vantage RL and very pleased indeed. Also note Vantage make Smartcampers which are the same conversion on a 2nd hand van, so a lot cheaper. Maybe worth considering. Adria twin and IH have good rear lounge setups.


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## rosalan

I would have thought that the advantages of a front diner, where you could fit captains seats, would outweigh the rear diner in the usage of space.
Assuming you also have a usable rear door, many conversions take advantage of the extra loading space and access to a built-in toilet for servicing with opposing kitchen. This would keep the plumbing to a minimum.
Cheers
Alan


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## tubbytuba

It's a matter of personal preference. We changed from a front lounge Duetto to the rear lounge Vantage. When we travel abroad we tend to take a few items that don't stow away, so we secure them in lounge area, so with a rear lounge we still have access to kitchen/toilet etc. Plus with Vantage also having Captains seat and table we can stop for lunch without any hassle.
Spend lots of time looking in different vans, took us nearly 12 months to be sure which model/layout was right for 'us'.


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## CliveMott

For a PVC our aim is (when we have to downsize) to have a front lounge and side kitchen like the Murvi Morello so you can sit on that bench seat and watch the world through that large picture window / sliding door. Other seating options are possible with this conversion. Choice a lot depends on how many will be sleeping I guess.

C.


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## smick

I'm rather ambivalent about this. All of our vans have had a front lounge because you're able to use the captain's chairs, and when the sliding door id open, it feels a lot bigger and less enclosed. 

Having said that, I can also see the sense in rear lounges if you have to open the side door in driving rain! Added to which if you have a layout like the Devon Monte Carlo, you can leave the bed made up, and just use the front dinette. (Mind you, you can leave the bed made up in ours as well.)

We're still looking, haven't come to any definitive solution yet. All I know is that it has to be able to accommodate grandsprogs, and have a bed which her indoors can access without arriving like a beached whale!

Smick


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## jrr

Thanks for the responses folks.

To add some info, we're only interested in 2 berth vans, with no real requirement for extra belted seats. Regarding (personal) size, I'm 6', so a decent size bed is required. Regarding van size, our drive will only really accommodate a 6m van.

I like the front lounge layout, for the reasons Clive mentioned. However, my good lady is concerned that the end kitchen/bathroom area is a bit claustrophobic.


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## Addie

The two most comfortable seats upright seats in any van is the cab seats, rotated 180 degrees, in most 'rear lounge' conversions this renders one or sometimes both cab seats useless for sitting and relaxing in. In doing so you effectively gain a good 2x1m space as in doing so you turn your cab area into a habitation area. 

We sit in ours, facing into the van with the TV (or Laptop) mounted and both with our feet up with or without the table.

We have a fixed bed across the back which we also use for lounging on and if one person wants to lay down the other can be sat at the table on the Laptop. Some 'rear lounge' conversions mean that both of you need to be doing the same thing either up or in bed.


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## smick

Without pushing our sale, our HRZ does a double bed 7ft 4 x 4ft 6,(+ a child bed) in a van which is 5m 69cm long....and with a decent kitchen and end bathroom!


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## oldenstar

Absolutely concur with Addies post.

I have never yet come across any internal lounge seating in a van or caravan that I could sit on, in comfort, for any length of time. i.e. a very wet day onsite.

I looked in some new caravans and vans at the NEC and was appalled at the lack of thinking that seems to go into this most important point.

Cab seats are reclining, therefore adjustable, have shoulder support, and are designed for long term use.

I do agree that a van like the Monte Carlo does give the best of both worlds

Paul


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## Hezbez

Our Bessacarr E460 is 6.32 metres long and is a two berth rear lounge.

The rear lounge is very comfortable and relaxing. It's a great viewing gallery with the wrap around windows on the sides and rear.

Beds can be used as two singles or one massive double.
One good thing about the rear lounge over a front/midship one is because the bed is far away from the cab's glass windows the sleeping area is very cosy and there's less condensation.

Plus, I prefer cooking up near the front of the motorhome. One of our previous caravans had the rear kitchen and I just didn't like it - it felt cramped and because you had your back to the room when preparing food/cooking you couldn't chat as well as you can do with a side kitchen.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Hezbez said:


> Our Bessacarr E460 is 6.32 metres long and is a two berth rear lounge.
> 
> The rear lounge is very comfortable and relaxing. It's a great viewing gallery with the wrap around windows on the sides and rear.
> 
> Beds can be used as two singles or one massive double.
> One good thing about the rear lounge over a front/midship one is because the bed is far away from the cab's glass windows the sleeping area is very cosy and there's less condensation.
> 
> Plus, I prefer cooking up near the front of the motorhome. One of our previous caravans had the rear kitchen and I just didn't like it - it felt cramped and because you had your back to the room when preparing food/cooking you couldn't chat as well as you can do with a side kitchen.


I thought the E460 was coachbuilt.

We think we're going to go for a rear lounge when we change to a PVC mainly because we can have good views to 3 sides and also on nice days we can throw open the back doors.

Front lounge/bed seems to be too restrictive on movement if one person wants a lie in, going from cab to bog for instance, just not workable for us, rear lounge could also work as 2 singles if one person likes to move a lot in the night.

The biggest problem is siting the shower/bog without it taking to much of the vans width, as they usually live opposite the kitchen area.


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## Hezbez

Oops, never noticed it was a panel van you are after, sorry!


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## pandalf

Building on Addies' post, the real debate here is whether you want to build up a bed every night. Whether front or back, most PVCs require you to make up the bed from wherever the lounges are. This had no appeal for us; we love the layout of our Adria Twin, with it's front lounge and permanent rear bed. The additional consideration is storage. When you look at a PVC with a front lounge and nothing else, imagine where you will store stuff like awnings, chairs, barbecue etc etc.


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## rod_vw

We are on our third self build PVC and have designed along the lines that most above seem to think. Swivel front seats, units along the right side, bench seat that converts to rear bed.

The current camper is a 2011 LWB (5.1m) VW T5 with Reimo hightop, Reimo Variotech seat/bed, Waeco 65ltr compressor fridge, SMEV sink, hob and grill.
The hightop fitted with Sietz windows provides two lockers, front one also housing PMS 3V power management and space for cloths etc whilst the rear one will hold all our bedding if we need the 'downstairs' space for other goods.
I have two 100ah carbon fibre leisure batteries, one under the drivers seat and one under the floor. A 300w inverter automatically switched on by inserting the 13A plug into a socket on the left 'B' post provides a limited 220V supply at any time.
There is also an Eberspacher 2kW Airtronic blown air heater fitted below floor level under the drivers seat.
A cupboard provides space for a small Porta Potti, another metal lined one houses two Camping Gaz 907s.
Fresh water tank is under the rear as per Autosleepers, grey water is only output to a bucket at present.

The base vehicle is a VW T5 LWB window van with all the normal camper additions, colour codes bumpers & mirrors, cab aircon, carpeted cab, electric windows, central locking, etc.

All of this design was the outcome of many hours scheming the most into the space available and still making a fully adaptable vehicle that will provide for all our needs.

The previous self builds were a 2002 VW T4 and a 2007 VW T5 both built along similar lines just earlier versions of the current one.

Rod


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## jrr

Cor! What a lot of responses. Interesting (or perhaps inevitable) that it's pretty much a 50:50 split in opinions. 

To add a couple more of our thoughts (misconceptions?) into the mix, neither of us think a fixed bed is a good idea. In a small van, it seems to squash up the living (lounging area). Although, thinking of posts from Addie and a couple of others, maybe we're guilty of underestimating the role of the cab seats.

As a final thought, my good lady is quite keen on the idea of a double bed that can also be two singles. Not that she's falling out with me after 35 years (I hope!), rather that it would be useful for an overnight stop, just to chuck some bedding on the seat and crash out.

All of these ideas are difficult to achieve in in a 6m van. The Vantage Sol does it - dammit - but is out on price at the moment. Even if we chose to afford it, we're not keen on plunging straight in with a brand new first van.

'Cos we'll probably get it wrong...


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## Zebedee

Morning John

Why are you set on a panel van? They are relatively quite a lot more expensive than a coachbuilt, and often rather more limited in design features. (_Not always I know, before somebody comes charging in_! :roll: )

I only ask since we had pretty much the same list of criteria as you, which did not include a fixed bed, fancied a PVC at first, but finally settled on an AutoSleeper Nuevo - which is less than six metres so cheaper across the Channel.

I'm 6' 4" and the double bed is plenty long enough. We had the same idea of using the singles when "en route" but since we can make the double bed in less than thirty seconds (_and I'm not exaggerating_ :wink: ) we have never used the singles. The passenger side one is long enough for me, so you would be OK.

We also have the option of lounging on the bench seats, sitting up on the rotating cab seats, or using the cab seats as a recliner with our feet up on the bench seats.

Just a thought.

Dave


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## rosalan

You are absolutely right jrr, you will get it wrong! This is for certain because there is no right way and the first build may well increase issues of wrongness.
I built two van conversions and cannot tell you how much I learnt first time around.
There are a couple of great self build books around to help overcome technical problems (Haynes etc) but it was not until we invested into pro built units that we fully appreciated the many subtle niceties that are available to long term experience and a professional workshop will tooling I can only dream about.
Would I make another self build? Too right! I loved every moment of the building.
Alan


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## trevd01

Front lounge, big door open = fantastic camping ambiance

But don't get one where the kitchen furniture blocks half the door!

Here's view from our lounge in the Florac Aire










*Best restaurant in town!*


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## jrr

Morning Dave,

Funnily enough, when we first started looking at motorhomes, we took a shine to the Nuevo; indeed, we still like it.

What tipped us to a PVC? Having lurked on another forum for a while, I picked up some (seemingly sensible) comments about the relative toughness of the PVC bodywork to scratches, and it's less boxy structure. Think country lanes, dings from branches etc. Also there's a sense of the PVC being slightly easier to fit in parking spaces.

I'm quite prepared to be told I'm barking up the wrong tree!

Oh, and another benefit is as per Trevor's picture...


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## relay

Hi,

I've had both layouts and have to reiterate what others have said - it all depends on how you are going to use it. 

First was an Adria Van M. Front dinette (converting to longitudinal double bed) and superb end kitchen. I loved this layout because it allowed me to sit at the permanent table with my laptop, cook in a "dedicated area", easy access to gas lockers through rear doors and lots of "load carrying space" as we used it as an every day vehicle. I'm not one of those who like sitting in the swivelled seats but because I'm not tall I could sit sideways with my legs up on the dinette seats. 

Second was a Moncayo Salsa. This had a rear lounge and front dinette. The rear lounge could be left made up as a fixed bed if required and there was a good shower room amidships, the storage space was immense (the rear lounge was raised so there was good space beneath the false floor) - BUT the kitchen was undoubtedly lacking: no oven (if I have one I use practically every day) and there was the issue of moving from back to front and squeezing past each other. 

If I was choosing again, I still don't know which I'd choose. I did miss the end kitchen, but the socialising room of the rear lounge was great (as was the chance to leave bed made up if I was only travelling one day).

So... still a case of working out what YOUR priorities are, I'm afraid  

Good luck! 
-H


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## CaGreg

Our van has the lounge/dining at the front, the kitchen behind that and the bathroom/large closet at the back. I don't care where I sleep, but with the cargo door open, we spend so much time sitting beside the sea/lake/harbour, and the outside can come in. Even in the winter, it is possible to sit with the door fully open on many days. It is like having a conservatory on the road. Even this weekend, with the temps not much above 12deg we sat with the door open for a few hours.
Our van has nothing blocking the cargo door. as some other vans do. so we have full sense of openness. I would not want to change this for anything. 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

ca


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