# Updated, MHer's - Ignorant, Patronizing gypsies........



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

We saw this readers letter to the editor in The Portugal News ("Portugal's National Newpaper in English") dated 20th January 2007 Edition Nº 891 and the subsequent replies in the following edition dated 27th January 2007.

Original letter.....

*Scottish motorhomers *
SIR, In this day and age, it is disturbing and sad to see so many Portuguese people living in such obvious poverty and to hear on the radio of fund-raising events to buy new shoes for the children of The Algarve. Nov/Dec/Jan are quiet months for tourism so 'motorhomers' visiting from north of The Algarve (Northern Portugal, Spain, Germany, The Netherlands, France, Sweden, Austria, England and Scotland - to name but a few) surely should be welcomed and not shoved from pillar to post! We spend money in the garages, supermarkets, shops, restaurants and bars and bring life to otherwise quiet villages at this time of year - contributing to The Algarve's economy - but we are treated like lepers, particularly by fellow visitors to the area who happen to own apartments/villas and who are only here for one week (maybe two weeks) of the whole year. Surely there is no harm in parking in empty car parks/quiet areas (marked 'No Caravans', but obviously meaning when the place is heaving with Summer traffic) - not blocking anyone's view of course - perhaps staying a couple of days living quietly and tidily before moving on? Yesterday, for instance, we parked at Luz Bay for lunch (on our way to Salema). We didn't unpack one single thing from the motorhome - just sat quietly enjoying our sandwich and the view before moving on (the one and only vehicle in the parking area) when two 'Little Englanders' knocked on our window and demanded we move - we were "breaking the laws of the country"! Please get a life - what harm were we doing you? Just having lunch. We were so obviously not camped there. We hope you did call the Police as you insisted you would. They, too, would just think you "an English busybody" as we Scots certainly did! Do we 'motorhomers' have the right to report these self-imposed vigilantes for taking the law into their own hands and invading our privacy? Two World Wars were fought to prevent dictatorship. Portugal is now a democratic country. Democracy came after the 1974 Revolution of the Carnations, which removed the authoritarian Salazar/ERA Government. Have we now to allow these "busybodies" to rentroduce dictatorship? Last Winter it was a pleasure to spend three happy months in the warm sunshine we so rarely experience back home and to enjoy the hospitality of the friendly Portuguese people - why is this Winter so very different? Many fellow 'motor-homers' tell us they have had similar experiences so far this year. It would be helpful if the relevant Authorities could clarify the situation for us all, so that we do not have our privacy invaded again by these self-appointed law enforcers, who should be minding their own business. Two very angry and disappointed Scots. NAME & ADDRESSED SUPPLIED

*These were the two replies that were printed the following week......*

*Reply to Scottish Motorhomers *SIR, Never before have I been enraged enough to put pen to paper but having read the letter from Scottish Motor Homers I now find myself doing so. How ignorant and patronizing can anyone be? I'm sure your right all tourism is welcome and especially in the winter months. Thank you for spending you're money in our garages, supermarkets, shops restaurants and bars, and bringing life (and litter) to our villages. But you failed to mention spending money in our campsites. People who own and work in campsites also have to make a living in the winter. It is against the rules of the Caravan Club of Great Britain, and all European Countries (including Scotland) to camp on the side of the road, cliff-top, car park etc. within a specified distance from a campsite. Many of those who do so proudly display a CCGB sticker. Maybe some of the apartments are not fully occupied all year (conversely some are) But believe you me many are rented out for the same 2 or 3 months the motor homers are here, by people who aren't quite as lucky to have £30,000 plus to spend on or own a motor home but also want to spend the winter in sunnier climes. And what do they get? Not a pleasant sea view.... No they get "motorhomers" parked on the cliff top in front of them, with a prime panoramic view from their table and chairs and sun loungers, with their satellite dish up, and their knickers and their vests blowing in the warm sea breeze, and Mrs. Motorhomer throwing out her empty dish water onto the cliff top flora and fauna, and possibly their personal waste as well. And believe you me not everyone leaves it tidy! Yes there is harm in parking in empty car parks/ quiet area. If its marked 'No Caravans' its not just meant for the winter months as you suggest (Who the hell do you think you are?) it's meant for you! It's put there for a purpose, not so you can park your 2 ton monstrosity in front of everyone else and eat your sandwiches while gazing out to sea, but to protect the environment. I applaud the 'Little Englanders' and sorry they just didn't call the police. They are correct, you are breaking the law of the country, and what gives you the brass neck and divine right to flaunt it. Camp sites, and there are many of them dotted all the way along the Algarve, are not just put there for you to trundle in every 3/4 days to fill up your water tank and empty your personal waste. They are put there for a reason, for you to camp, and so that people who live here or rent nice apartments with sea views don't have to put up with gypsies camped out in front of them. I suspect our 'Little Scotlanders' would be highly outraged if the same thing happened in front of their home in Scotland. Half a dozen motor homes parked outside their front window, I doubt people would even get chance to unpack their sandwiches let alone eat them. The relevant authorities do clarify the situation they put up signs in the appropriate places that say 'No Caravans' - it doesn't say 'No Caravans- except in the winter months' or 'No Caravans- except for ignorant Scottish people', it says 'No Caravans' and it means 'NO CARAVANS'. As you managed to write this letter in the first place I imagine you aren't illiterate. You're welcome here, but only if you respect this country, its environment, its laws and by- laws. It's people like you who give motorhomers a bad name. NAME & ADDRESS SUPPLIED

*and.......*

*Scottish motorhomers *SIR, What a novel idea - shop locally and gain exemption from those annoying local laws! Here´s another idea - PAY CAMPSITE FEES and contribute to the local facilities/infrastructure (water, sewage and rubbish collection etc.) just like the "poor" locals. The locals are no less friendly and the sunshine is still free. By the way, has anyone informed the Guinness Book of Records of their amazing feat i.e. such a long drive with their shoulder-chips still in place. Scotland should be proud! NAME & ADDRESS SUPPLIED

If you have an opinion on this matter, discuss it here or contact The Portugal News direct on their web site www.the-news.net or by email to [email protected]


----------



## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Ignorant Patronizing Gypsy*

:? 
Oh my gawd, 'ere we go again.
Life is so short, and could be so sweet.
When will people learn to live amd let live a little.
Anyway, I thought it was supposed to be the UNITED Kingdom?
saluti,
eddied


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I would imagine in the league of contributors to a countries economy the motorhomer is second from the bottom of the list just above backpackers but of course, backpackers are unlikely to slow the traffic, block the road, or be an eyesore on a place of beautific interest. Mind you, on out last trip we did buy a burger so maybe I guilty of self flagellation.


----------



## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

must admit i cant get my head round why you would spend £20-£60 grand then park it in a layby just to save a few bob


----------



## 92180 (May 1, 2005)

Well firstly as Scottish I object to everyone being branded the same. 

I agree with Fatalhud, I cannot see the point in using a car park or lay bye, I would always use a campsite, it is just the right thing to do. I appreciate the some like the wild camping idea but it is not for me and I also see it as a blot on the landscape. You bought a motorhome so use a site, if it is good enough for motorhomes why not caravans, then the whole place would be littered.

This Scottish traveler would be better trying his technique in the middle of Glasgow or Edinburgh and see how long he remained parked sandwich in hand. He would definatly be moved on from outside my house. NO DOUBT
Just a bloody embarrassment. 

We are visitors in that country and would be better to blend in rather than stick out.


----------



## badger (May 9, 2005)

......'Fraid I agree with the people of Portugal.....  

(But I wouldn't have stuck my nose in and told them to move)


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

I have a foot in both camps...

Where appropriate we would camp in a site however we do like where it is quiet to pitch up on a beach or quiet spot for a night - its nothing to do with saving money or being gypo's  its just a great experience (twice around Ireland with this attitude and we had no problem.

We would NEVER pitch in front of someones view and in fact only park where we cannot be seen. Its worth noting that our van is 16 foot long at best 

If I owned an apartment/villa and someone parked a white coach in front of my sea view they would see/hear the sharp side of my tongue


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

badger said:


> ......'Fraid I agree with the people of Portugal.....
> 
> (But I wouldn't have stuck my nose in and told them to move)


Just to put the record straight, these are not the local Portuguese who are complaining about Motorhomers, these are British people who have probably had their villa built infront of a locals house blotting out the view that they've had for generations, but hey, who are we to judge!


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

asgard said:


> Well firstly as Scottish I object to everyone being branded the same.
> 
> I agree with Fatalhud, I cannot see the point in using a car park or lay bye, I would always use a campsite, it is just the right thing to do. I appreciate the some like the wild camping idea but it is not for me and I also see it as a blot on the landscape. You bought a motorhome so use a site, if it is good enough for motorhomes why not caravans, then the whole place would be littered.
> 
> ...


Mr Scottish Motorhomer was probably travelling between campsites and had just stopped for lunch en-route with a nice view. Why should eating sandwiches whilst sat in a camper be any different from eating your lunch whilst sat in a car, which seems to be totally acceptable. I'm sure we've all done it as some time or other.


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

janebobscott said:


> badger said:
> 
> 
> > ......'Fraid I agree with the people of Portugal.....
> ...


Two wrongs do not make a right, but if their house is on front of a locals it must have passed the local planning regs and they will now pay taxes etc.

Your 'home' parkedin front of the Brits holiday home will rightly rile them !

As it would do you if the shoe was on the other foot


----------



## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

asgard said:


> Well firstly as Scottish I object to everyone being branded the same.
> 
> I agree with Fatalhud, I cannot see the point in using a car park or lay bye, I would always use a campsite, it is just the right thing to do. I appreciate the some like the wild camping idea but it is not for me and I also see it as a blot on the landscape. You bought a motorhome so use a site, if it is good enough for motorhomes why not caravans, then the whole place would be littered.
> 
> ...


Er a campsite just to stop and have lunch. Does anyone do that? Would avoid parking that said no caravans though. The more common one in the UK is car parks that specify a maximum weight but only in small print. Last time was in Edinburgh happily had lunch in van parked outside someone's house even put money in the meter.


----------



## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

If stopping at a given location for any length of time IMO campsites should be used - especially in populated locations.

While on the road, it isn't always practical to use a campsite overnight (which is why the Aires system is so good), and many campsites don't really want such brief stopovers and charge a high rate accordingly.
As far as stopping for lunch or even an afternoon - why not! if a car can do it without hindrance, why not a motorhome. Many of us park-up with due consideration to the location, which very few car owners do, so why are we such lepers? Jealousy?

Unfortunately, there will always be those who litter and park indiscriminately - their own countrymen (or should that be persons?) amongst them.


----------



## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Bob and Jane


I agree that we should be able to stop and eat our lunch in peace but I guess the Brits who jumped on them are probably on tender hooks. My mum had a similar problem recently. A neighbour parks his 30footish lorry on his drive everynight and a few weeks ago she phoned me, very concerned because now four lorries had pulled up, it was Christmas time. It would have spoilt her Christmas if they had all come to stay.

I asked her to stay calm and wait for a few hours. Sure enough they had all moved on within an hour and had probably just called in to say hello to their mate. But what if they had stayed all Christmas. They were all parked legally, although of course any vehicle can be asked by the police to move on if it is deemed they are causing a hazard. To a lorry driver it might not have been a problem but to my mum a lorry is a nuisance rather than something nice to look at.

For us motorhomers we can spend all day looking at motorhomes but to someone disinterested in them to have even one parked on the neighbours drive is probably a bone of contention but to have three or four parked up outside is probably just too much.

To them we are all gypsies so they probably panicked thinking that the scotsman was the rece man and that a whole tribe might follow.


stew


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Good one Stew,

So when are we all going!

Chris
ps I agree with those that say parking to eat a sandwich is not really a concern. Perhaps using a car park - at any time of the year - that says no caravans is another issue though!


----------



## 95531 (Jun 23, 2005)

We have a biggish van and it is not always practical to use campsites in Spain and Portugal,whats the big deal with someone stopping for an hour for lunch? If some little Englander came knocking on my van window he would get the sharp end of my tongue,at the very least! .Regarding street parking in Glasgow and Ediburgh,if I stop for a sandwich and so long as I am legally parked,no one will move me on,live and let live,there are too many begrudgers in this world.paddywhack.


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

FATALHUD said:


> must admit i cant get my head round why you would spend £20-£60 grand then park it in a layby just to save a few bob


Its not to save a few bob, although there is the old saying, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. One of the main features of a MH is the fact that you can pull up anywhere and have all your worldlies and home comforts and facilities with you, even the ability to make a sandwich, eat it whilst looking at a nice view, then move on.


----------



## Guest (Feb 1, 2007)

artona said:


> A neighbour parks his 30footish lorry on his drive everynight .....<snip>...........now four lorries had pulled up.....<snip>........... They were all parked legally, although of course any vehicle can be asked by the police to move on if it is deemed they are causing a hazard.


One thing I wasn't aware of until I received replies from councils to my questions was that some (mainly Greater London) ban commercial vehicles over 5 tonnes from parking on the street overnight (6:30 pm to 8 am).
One London council pointed out the London Lorry Control Scheme Here.
The ban doesn't normally apply to motorhomes.

Graham


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi
Just read this weeks edition of "The Portugal News" and there's another readers letter regarding Motorhomers and parking. This one opens up the possibility of legal action against any parked Motorhomes.

Illegal camping SIR, People have the right to spend the winter in costly (to themselves and to the environment) tarted up furniture vans if they wish, but only in designated caravanning areas. Outside these, their constant despoliation of the beauty spots of the Algarve is a scandal, as is their camping in front of people's homes. More importantly, they damage or destroy ecosystems and disturb wildlife. However, the term 'gypsies' should not, as in recent correspondence in The Portugal News, be used in association with such people. Roma have their own centuries-old traditions and culture, which bear no relation to these mainly geriatric (I am geriatric myself) northern European migrants. Nor are many of these intruders Scots. They are mostly Belgian, Dutch, English, French and German. They are either stupid (unaware of the environmental and aesthetic damage they are perpetrating) or arrogant (care nothing about the damage) and they are certainly greedy (grabbing as much pleasure as they can without paying for it, many even bringing their own bikes so they don't have to hire them locally). They add almost nothing to the local economy to compensate for the vast amount of degradation they cause shopping in mainly foreign owned supermarkets for mainly foreign produced goods provides low paid employment for only a few. Action must be taken against them. One way to assist the authorities in dealing with the problem could be to send incriminating digital photographs of illegally parked 'mobile homes' (a misnomer, of course, for these monstrous vehicles are not people's homes) to: [email protected] Suitable photographs will be forwarded to the police, local authorities, the press (both in Portugal and in home countries) and possibly published on the Internet. Photographs should show how this illegal activity is causing damage (particularly to nature, beauty spots, neighbourhoods, sheer numbers etc.) and, if possible, identify the licence plates and/or the inhabitants of the vehicles concerned. NAME & ADDRESS SUPPLIED


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

It’s nothing to do with being Scottish, English or Portuguese. It’s noboy’s business what I do if I’m doing it legally. Like PaddyWhack, If I’m causing no harm, parked legally and stop for a bite, what’s it got to do with some mean spirited cretin who objects to me having a sandwich? They bought a house with a view, not Portugal and all legal rights. Some people are only happy when they’re miserable. 

I agree with live and let live. I live in Cornwall. I don’t know how many Jeeps, 4x4’s, vans with trailers towing boats pass my door in a week. Sometimes I can’t get out of my own drive for them, but it’s nothing to get wound up about. That is why the road is there, so they can access the water and the view and use it legally. 

It seems to me that you buy a motorhome and you’re meant to stay in perpetual motion. You go out for the day, but you can’t park when you arrive. You can’t stop here or there. There’s a parking restriction, a length restriction, a height restriction. Everybody has their hand out waiting for you to spend money but if you have the audacity to want to enjoy it, well, that’s another matter. Who do you think you are with your big motorhome leaving carbon footprints wherever you go. Too much jealousy, too many little “don’t do as I do, do as I say” weasels creeping out of the woodwork.

The root of the problem is the giveaway in the last posting of Portugal News that they contribute nothing to the economy. So, you can eat your sandwich, but only if they sold it to you.

desertsong


----------



## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

that sums it up nicely desertsong..excellent post!


----------



## thefman (May 1, 2005)

PaddyWhack said:


> We have a biggish van and it is not always practical to use campsites in Spain and Portugal,whats the big deal with someone stopping for an hour for lunch? If some little Englander came knocking on my van window he would get the sharp end of my tongue,at the very least! .Regarding street parking in Glasgow and Ediburgh,if I stop for a sandwich and so long as I am legally parked,no one will move me on,live and let live,there are too many begrudgers in this world.paddywhack.


 too right paddy


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

The writer thoughtfully provided an e-mail address. Why don't you e-mail him with your views ?

I feel rather sorry for him actually. He is, if he continues to get so stirred up so unnecessarily, not long for this world. I imagine him having a seizure at the site of a dropped sandwich paper or similar hanging offence. Gives the lie to the fact that retiring to the sun is good for your health.

Meanwhile the great majority of us will continue to enjoy our tarted up furniture vans and cause no damage to the environment or annoyance to the inhabitants of sunnier climes.

G


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

FATALHUD said:


> must admit i cant get my head round why you would spend £20-£60 grand then park it in a layby just to save a few bob


How right you are!

It is those sort of owners that get us all a bad name. Who do they think they are?
I would be furious if someone parked in our village over night. They would be moved on by us villagers Just because it is a foreign country they seem to think they can do what they like.
We never wild camp and never would. Wherever you are it is someone elses back yard even if you are in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## 101411 (Oct 15, 2006)

Everyone on here should email the sad git that wrote it.

I sent the following email

_You sad sad person. Who the hell do you think you are. Its people like you that this country went to war twice to silence. Why dont you do the world a favour and spend a few quid and buy yourself a life.

Thanks for leaving the UK its just a shame the Portugese now have to tolerate your tiny mind.

Yours Faithfully

The very happy owner of a great big huge 32 foot American motorhome and enjoying the freedom it brings._

Come on people get emailing!!!!

Dazzer


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

Dazzer said:


> Everyone on here should email the sad git that wrote it.
> 
> I sent the following email
> 
> ...


How irresponsible! Try parking your monstrosity in our village and see what happens. I have sent an email in support.


----------



## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

2kias said:


> FATALHUD said:
> 
> 
> > must admit i cant get my head round why you would spend £20-£60 grand then park it in a layby just to save a few bob
> ...


So you'd rather they drove on and had a fatal accident than stopped because they were tired interesting attitude. What makes you're village so special that people aren't allowed to park there?


----------



## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

2kias said:


> Dazzer said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone on here should email the sad git that wrote it.
> ...


Er.. that looks suspiciously like a threat of physical violence against someone going about their lawful business. I do hope you'll clarify to explain what you actually meant.


----------



## 100397 (Aug 7, 2006)

*re last post on this issue*

If a huge 32ft rv parked in my village i would go and say hi , and want a good nose round his rv and as a fellow motorhomer welcome him , i thought we as a band of fellow travellers were supposed to stick together not infight, or is it once again , does size matter?


----------



## 101411 (Oct 15, 2006)

Hi Peapod

Thanks for that, you would be welcomed with a nice cup of tea and a bite to eat!!

Followed by a full tour of the RV.

Nice to know there are some nice people on here instead of stuck in the mud moaners trying to force there own deluded sense of right and wrong on the rest of the M/H population.

They need to remind themselves exactly why they bought a M/H in the first place. If you want to sit on a caravan park and look down your nose at other peoples choice of vehicles BUY A STATIC CARAVAN!!!!

Dazzer


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

emgee said:


> 2kias said:
> 
> 
> > FATALHUD said:
> ...


We have got a gipsy campsite I am sure you would be welcome on or even two CL's. Park on our road and you would be moved on. Organise your journey so that you can go to a legal site. We did have a caravan but got fed up with towing.


----------



## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Well said Peapod, not worth fighting about, we all have our own views. I have wildcamped lots of times - paid to camp more though.

When wildcamping I would always ensure I am not not blocking anyones view etc. Its our world and we need to remember it belongs to us all.

stew


----------



## 100397 (Aug 7, 2006)

i live in old portsmouth,backing onto the millenium walk so people walk past my back garden all day long, yes i moved here for the view but fully understand that people alse want to see the view, does it bug me no , if it had i wouldnt have moved here, why when brits move abroad they want to take their petty thinkings with them, i thought the idea of moving abroad was that it was l ess stressful, an easy way of life, how does the saying go you cant take the !!!!!out of the !!!!


----------



## 95531 (Jun 23, 2005)

How irresponsible! Try parking your monstrosity in our village and see what happens. I have sent an email in support.[/quote]
Its not YOUR village, if I decide to park in"YOUR" village what is "going to happen"? I sincerely hope you have nothing more sinister in mind than a phone call to the local nick! As if we did not have enough to contend with without folk like you lining up with the little englanders,


----------



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

janebobscott said:


> Hi
> Just read this weeks edition of "The Portugal News" ...
> 
> Illegal camping SIR, People have the right to spend the winter in costly (to themselves and to the environment) tarted up furniture vans if they wish, but only in designated caravanning areas. Outside these, their constant despoliation of the beauty spots of the Algarve is a scandal, as is their camping in front of people's homes. More importantly, they damage or destroy ecosystems and disturb wildlife. However, the term 'gypsies' should not, as in recent correspondence in The Portugal News, be used in association with such people. Roma have their own centuries-old traditions and culture, which bear no relation to these mainly geriatric (I am geriatric myself) northern European migrants. Nor are many of these intruders Scots. They are mostly Belgian, Dutch, English, French and German. They are either stupid (unaware of the environmental and aesthetic damage they are perpetrating) or arrogant (care nothing about the damage) and they are certainly greedy (grabbing as much pleasure as they can without paying for it, many even bringing their own bikes so they don't have to hire them locally). They add almost nothing to the local economy to compensate for the vast amount of degradation they cause shopping in mainly foreign owned supermarkets for mainly foreign produced goods provides low paid employment for only a few. Action must be taken against them. One way to assist the authorities in dealing with the problem could be to send incriminating digital photographs of illegally parked 'mobile homes' (a misnomer, of course, for these monstrous vehicles are not people's homes) to: [email protected] Suitable photographs will be forwarded to the police, local authorities, the press (both in Portugal and in home countries) and possibly published on the Internet. Photographs should show how this illegal activity is causing damage (particularly to nature, beauty spots, neighbourhoods, sheer numbers etc.) and, if possible, identify the licence plates and/or the inhabitants of the vehicles concerned. NAME & ADDRESS SUPPLIED


Now that is one bitter and twisted individual who needs to relax - even if I didnt agree with you earlier


----------



## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

In any large community there will be those that because of their actions give the community as a whole a bad reputation - and Motorhomers are not just a large, but an international community.

Similarly, there are people that pick-up on perceived offences and believe that All persons in that community are miscreants.

It would be more productive to try and educate people such as the person who wrote the article in the "Portugal News", that our way of life is just as valid as their own, and possibly better.

Perhaps we should e-mail him with an invite to visit the MHF site to get a idea of what Motorhoming is reall about!


Oh! and I would have no objection to a Motorhome parking outside my house for the night - providing they disposed of their waste correctly, and didn't prevent me from getting out, in fact I would probably ask them if they needed any info. on the locality!


----------



## 101368 (Oct 12, 2006)

2kias said:


> emgee said:
> 
> 
> > 2kias said:
> ...


Why would I be moved on for parking in "your" road and who by? Enquiring minds want to know.


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

Hello again,

I've seen some contentious postings on here, but this one is amazing. 

Let me ask you 2kias - "They would be moved on by us villagers" you say, why, and exactly how would you do this? Where exactly do you live? The wild west? I think perhaps that deep down you're having a quiet giglle at our expense. The idea of getting run out of town for parking a motorhome. Okay, very funny.

But on the other hand, if you are serious. Well, because you don't do something doesn't mean that nobody else should. Perhaps you would be good enough to inform us then of what you would "allow" us FELLOW motorhomers to do. 

The real question here is, who do YOU and your ilk think you are, that you can determine who can do what and where? 

If you find yourself in a town you don't live in, do you expect the locals to come and move you on? My God, what a selfish, arrogant attitude. You probably own a house in the village, not the village. Even if you were the mayor, you don't own the place, you are there to serve it, the tail shouldn't wag the dog.

desertsong


----------



## 101411 (Oct 15, 2006)

Well said Paddywhack

Im especially interested in the "What Happens" bit as well.

Oh yes and when was the last time you saw a gipsy in an RV or even a M/H for that matter.

Most times we park on a site but not always. If we find a nice secluded spot which doesn't interfere with anyone else we park. That is the reason we own M/Hs isnt it?? If your idea of fun is sitting in your M/H twitching at the curtain and pointing to other "gypsies" who dare to drive off the site and actually do what M/Hs allow you to do, you need to get out more!!

Dazzer


----------



## 88826 (May 9, 2005)

Lagos. Algarve, Sept 06. What a beautiful place to have a quiet sojourn. Take in the atmosphere of the marina, the fantastic local beaches, and some SUPERB, and dare I say obscenely comparitively cheap but excellent restaurents. During our stay in a rented residential apartment , in my opinion, far superior to the ex-pats holiday retreats we enjoyed every moment. (I'll provide a link if you like) Ten minutes from the marina, two to Aldi, and other supermarkets. A drive up into the beautiful Monchique area and down to Cape St Vincent. Of course there are SOME areas where motorhomes are not welcome but there are numerous others where a motorhome can find ample time to rest up for a while. There are also official campsites catering for motorhomes less than 3k north west of the town.

Makes me wish I was there again...........................

Bonza


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*We are not Gypsys*

Oh dear! Problems In Iberia again

I may wander off topic a bit here but here goes........

In all honesty this does not apply purely to Motorhomes does it?

Parking wars - road rage is everywhere. When we moved to our first house one of the neighbours when I parked (outside my house) used to park so close to my bumper you would struggle to get a cigarette paper between us. My solution was to park outside his house ven if my frontage was clear. Needless to say it soon stopped and he started to respond to my hellos and never confronted me over the issue.

Last year Working in fairly shabby Salford street I was attending a call in my perfectly leagally parked, smart looking Service Van. I was about to knock on the door where I was attending when a neighbour came out shouting

"AND HOW LONG ARE YOU THINKING OF LEAVING THAT THERE FOR?"

Without immediate response I walked back to my van silently examaning my task disc before responding very loudly.....

" I AM NOT SURE BUT IT SEEMS I HAVE UNTIL AT LEAST MARCH 2007"

He turned back into the house to his lady bodygaurd muttering "F*****G comedian"

I was informed by the owner of the house I was attending that he had been seen on many occasions scraping and kicking cars whilst left untatended. Even though he owns no vehicle, has few visitors (no suprise there) there a plenty of parking spaces day or night. Must spoil his view of the boarded up house accross the street?

In 2001 I bought a nice brand spanking new BMW M3 Convertible. We had driven to Javea in Spain staying at the Parador Hotel. As people came and went throughout the day there was lots of waiting and fighting for the spots nearest to the main entrance. One day we returned and the spot nearest the door was free, I had just pipped another guest to the spot it seemed. Within an hour the car had been keyed front to back and cost me £1,000.00 to have resprayed.

Every one of the nice motors I have owned have had car doors slamed against them, been keyed, kicked or vandalised in some way or form. Yet every shed or bangor has remained injury free!

When we got the motorhome and we parked it in front of our house (very private blocks no light, or the view in front, no fire hazzard or cause any obstruction, hell the neighbours cannot even see it from their windows). Scince then, One neighbour no longer speaks to us, another family have joined forces to try to obstruct our entrance, by way of strangly parking on the lane and not on their drive like they always did. Often they even leave the 4 car drive empty. Another has questioned the value of her house, though not being up-front enough to claim it is due to our Motorhome.

It is my firm belief that a lot of it is pure jealousy and has nothing to do with where or how you park, is it not?.

Yes I agree that many motorhomers do camp up like they do and it is annoying when you cannot park at the beach. I think more give and take should be the case with blatant offenders cautioned regardless of whose side ethey are on.

We are not Gypys
---------------------
As small I kid i remember asking my dad what the "NO TRAVELERS" sign in pub windows meant. "It means the people who move about a lot are not allowed into the pubs came the reply" " we all move about, you mean Gypys Dad?" "(((SHsh... you mus'nt call them that Son" came the reply. We all know why these signs are no longer there, maybe we should make claims that signs stating "No Motorhomes" is being discriminate! After all every fecker else is on that wagon.

Whilst reading the letter It makes us wonder if the couple on the beach were instead a group of 6 or so blokes actually camped out would they have been chalenged in the same way? - I doubt it very much. Often some people through no fault of their own are just sitting targets for bullies who may of otherwise just moved on.

I know it is often hard to think quick but faced with the same situation, some of us would have taken issue with those who made the complaint. I maybe on the other hand would have made them feel a little smaller. Maybe by caliming something simple like "Actually we have broken down and are awaiting a tow truck" Then these are just maybees! Some days I have to hold the wife back and remove the baseball bat from her tenacious grip!

Back to Protugal

Is the weather realy that much better at this time of year or am I just Unlucky. I have been to Spain and Portugal for winter fortnights and only found the temperatures on average a degree or so higher than more welcoming France. If you check the weather that is actual rather than forecast around midday on www.weather.co.uk Alicante Spain as an example is often no warmer than Perpignan France. Even Costa Tropical (Motril) struggles to be warmer than the French coastal regions. And its closer for many of us!

I have travelled and holidayed in Europe for 27 years and find France much more welcoming than that of Spain or Portugal. Maybe those of you who feel badly treated by Spain/Portugal, moreover it's inhabitants should seek out shoe shops, supermarkets and markets elsewhere. After all it is the same sun just a shade cooler. My family would rather have a cooler day than a Cold shoulder. If you prefer or if in fact I am very wrong about the weather, hit Iberia for the depth of winter and at the fist sign of Spring head into France.

I have spoken with quite a number of Motorhomers and Caravanners who have started to take winters in France and even Italy. Some have complained that they have had poorer weather but on trying a second year have been pleasantly suprised by warm skies.

I assume that those of you who do the Iberian winters (are you called snowbirds?) do so for the milder climes?. Having Spent a Christmas in Norway we decided to Take a Christmas in Spain. Norway got all thumbs up and we returned last Christmas. Like some say about summer sun "it's a different kind of heat you know" (usually is when your sat in the shade outside a bar as opposed to a stuffy office or lugging concrete slabs about at work) Scandinavia - I say It's a differrent kind of cold you know, no it really is, not damp like the UK. Crisp dry cold you should try it rather than flying away from the snow try flying to it as an alternative. I use the word fly as an expression I mean drive, not for one minute would I suggest you take to the skies. Skip Northern Folk at the English Bar in the costas, why not try Northern lights, Skiing, Dogsledding, Snowmobiling, Saunas to thaw the bones, hot tubs under the stars and lots of Warm hearted Scandinavian Hospitality. Furthermore in most areas virtually crime free.

Well I have said rather a lot relating to this subject but the only realy way to object is to vote with your wheels and holiday elsewhere. I would suggest along with a letter of complaint to the relevant Spanish/Portugese Toursist office stating reasons why you are not returning.

If you read my other posts regarding robberies in Spain you find another reason why I intend to stay away. Just before Christmas a Freind of mine was robbed by bogus police officers in Barcelona.

So there you go..........over to you

Trev


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Forgot*

Oh I knew I had forgotten something,

*2kias* Wrote

"How irresponsible! Try parking your monstrosity *in our village *and see what happens. I have sent an email in support"

I say How much did you pay for Your village?
Or do you mean in the village where you live? 
Or does "Our Village" really mean just that it is a Public place and as such is also OURS, one where we can all walk along the road (sorry do I mean your pavement?).

So if we or one of us were to legally park OUR taxed and insured vehicles in Your Village, what would be the outcome? Do you all (thats plural I am being presumptuous and assuming your village has other inhabitants) come out into the village streets with burning torches?. You summon the Local Police officer? Drag it out of your village with a Landrover or Village Tractor?

I am not sure wether your remark was off the cuff so-to-speak in view of your disagreement with the opposing statements. If this is not the case then there exists a word to describe comments like yours maybe someone else could help me with that one....?

And here is some more.........

I would not mind betting that a good many of those who live
or Holiday in concrete dwellings did not get there by walking! of course not.

No they drive their cars to OUR Airports and park it in the ugly concrete multi story car park Or get friends to deliver them to it. Or take taxis to the airport, through OUR Cities towns and of course not forgetting the aforementioned villages. Clogging up our roads. Often sending convoys of empty taxis or single occupant cars back to clog it up some more. Climb aboard a noisy monstrous aircraft that pollutes the atmosphere for fun like no other form of transport. The ones that dump unburnt fuel all over OUR villages, food crops, countryside and Cities Only to disembark the other end to climb into a hire car, take up another parking spot, clog up that road or get another taxi to send back empty to clog that road up a bit more. All this only to it all again in reverse! And these are often called cheap flights! mmmmmmmmmmm pointy!

Try living close to an International Airport. Constant deafening take-offs and landings. In addition to all the aircraft flying high above passing through. On a clear day you can often count at least 20 Aircraft above in the skies just sitting in the garden. No wonder we are all so pale, if we dont have rain cloud we have skies full of plane cloud.

But hey ho, We currently have to live here. No choice at the moment. Imagine us Making a statement, "Try Flying your Aircraft over our City" or "Try passing through our Town in your Motorhome".

I drove my Eco Friendlier motorhome past Malaga airport recently taking in the sites of rows upon rows of the concrete shoe boxes that people are snapping up, many of which do so so they can say they have a place in the sun. Blots on the landscape, many of which scooped up by foolish Brits filling the greedy pockets of American property developers.

Rows of whitewashed concrete versus rows of motorhomes !

So the next time or if ever anyone hurls abuse at you beacuse of your motorhome, smile and think what a Tin Hat they are.

Must say I have enjoyed typing this little lot, who needs Mavis Beacon

8) Trev


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Forgot*

Oh I knew I had forgotten something,

*2kias* Wrote

"How irresponsible! Try parking your monstrosity *in our village *and see what happens. I have sent an email in support"

I say How much did you pay for Your village?
Or do you mean in the village where you live? 
Or does "Our Village" really mean just that it is a Public place and as such is also OURS, one where we can all walk along the road (sorry do I mean your pavement?).

So if we or one of us were to legally park OUR taxed and insured vehicles in Your Village, what would be the outcome? Do you all (thats plural I am being presumptuous and assuming your village has other inhabitants) come out into the village streets with burning torches?. You summon the Local Police officer? Drag it out of your village with a Landrover or Village Tractor?

I am not sure wether your remark was off the cuff so-to-speak in view of your disagreement with the opposing statements. If this is not the case then there exists a word to describe comments like yours maybe someone else could help me with that one....?

And here is some more.........

I would not mind betting that a good many of those who live
or Holiday in concrete dwellings did not get there by walking! of course not.

No they drive their cars to OUR Airports and park it in the ugly concrete multi story car park Or get friends to deliver them to it. Or take taxis to the airport, through OUR Cities towns and of course not forgetting the aforementioned villages. Clogging up our roads. Often sending convoys of empty taxis or single occupant cars back to clog it up some more. Climb aboard a noisy monstrous aircraft that pollutes the atmosphere for fun like no other form of transport. The ones that dump unburnt fuel all over OUR villages, food crops, countryside and Cities Only to disembark the other end to climb into a hire car, take up another parking spot, clog up that road or get another taxi to send back empty to clog that road up a bit more. All this only to it all again in reverse! And these are often called cheap flights! mmmmmmmmmmm pointy!

Try living close to an International Airport. Constant deafening take-offs and landings. In addition to all the aircraft flying high above passing through. On a clear day you can often count at least 20 Aircraft above in the skies just sitting in the garden. No wonder we are all so pale, if we dont have rain cloud we have skies full of plane cloud.

But hey ho, We currently have to live here. No choice at the moment. Imagine us Making a statement, "Try Flying your Aircraft over our City" or "Try passing through our Town in your Motorhome".

I drove my Eco Friendlier motorhome past Malaga airport recently taking in the sites of rows upon rows of the concrete shoe boxes that people are snapping up, many of which do so so they can say they have a place in the sun. Blots on the landscape, many of which scooped up by foolish Brits filling the greedy pockets of American property developers.

Rows of whitewashed concrete versus rows of motorhomes !

So the next time or if ever anyone hurls abuse at you beacuse of your motorhome, smile and think what a Tin Hat they are.

Must say I have enjoyed typing this little lot, who needs Mavis Beacon

8) Trev


----------



## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Ignorant Patronizing Gypsies*

 
Well, after that little lot, think it's time I chipped i You aren again, just to remind folks that if you see a 'No Caravans' sign it doesn' don't obstructt apply to you in Europe if you're in a motorhome. A motorhome is not a caravan, it is a motorcaravan. A self-propelled motorvehicle that as long as it is within the parameters of not being over 3500 Kg. enjoys the same privileges (and obligations) as a normal motor car. You are not parked illegally if you are parked in a normal car-parking area, as long as you do not obstruct access or use to other users. If it is a parking meter area or similar, you are obliged to pay a supplement of 50% over the normal fee, because you will probably be occupyine two spaces. You are 'parked' not 'camping' just so long as you don't have compass windows open, steps out, or other similar projections, and are not discharging any waste of any kind.
So any Portugese (or Spanish, Italian, or French) busybody or policeman who wanted to move me on would get a polite but firm refusal.
If I was over 3500 Kg. then of course a totally different matter. I then become a 'goods vehicle'.
I'll be visitng Portugal some time this year, crossing of course Italy, France, and Spain, and quite sure that at some stage I'll be stopping somewhere en route to enjoy a view and have a sandwich! And enjoying my rights as a motorhomer as enshrined in European Traffic Codes and Legislation.
saluti,
eddied


----------



## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

good post eddied,

Providing your vehicle is taxed,insured,and in a roadworthy condition you can park legally on a public highway as long as you are not causing an obstruction.

I think common sense has to prevail here,I for one would not like it if a motorhome parked for a long period on the road directly in front of my house.Similarly I would not like a van,truck,or any commercial vehicle to do the same even though it would be perfectly legal.

It's a question of etiquette really,and respecting residents privacy,even though you are not commiting any offence,it certainly will not endear you to the locals,and probably damage the reputation of the motorhoming community.

Steve and Sharon


----------



## Guest (Feb 3, 2007)

This thread prompted me to do a bit of Googling and I've copied below a couple of brief findings.

First of all, the Right to Park - _On public roads, there is strictly speaking no right to park, but parking is generally tolerated provided that it does not cause danger or obstruct the road. Local authorities have powers to restrict parking on public roads._

Secondly, Nuisance - _Unfortunately, for non-statutory nuisances the law does not define exactly what is and what is not a nuisance. Furthermore, two people might both consider that the other is creating a nuisance. Who is right? Although a court would be the only sure way to find out, the landowner on the ground might need a quick decision. For any nuisance the test of reasonableness can be applied. Just because someone complains of a nuisance this does not mean that there necessarily is one. E.g. if a neighbour complains that Rangers are lighting a bonfire and blowing smoke into his garden, if it is a small amount of smoke for a relatively short time, it is probably not a nuisance as he could reasonably expect them to produce a small amount of smoke going about their legitimate business. On the other hand, if the bonfire burns for weeks producing lots of smoke, then quite possibly it is a nuisance. It might also depend on whether there have been regular bonfires at the same spot in the past. In any case, for practical purposes nuisance is a matter of subjective judgement, which means that if you are in doubt and if the problem is serious enough it is always best to let the Environmental Health Officers from your local council, or a solicitor decide. Nuisance is very rarely something the police will become involved in. _

Seems to me that wherever we park (as with most other things in life) we need to be conscious of the fact that our actions might cause some sort of problem for somebody else and ensure as far as is reasonable that we avoid causing such problems.

I - like many other members of this forum - would love to see more overnight stopover places officially approved (not necessarily provided) by local authorities. If that is to occur then we need to demonstrate the benefits that would accrue to local communities. If we act in a manner which creates a lobby group against motorhomes (no matter how unreasonable/selfish the group is) then local councillors having their ears bent by potential voters will not be minded to listen to our arguments.

Graham


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

Dazzer said:


> Well said Paddywhack
> 
> Im especially interested in the "What Happens" bit as well.
> 
> ...


You asked what would happen if you parked your motorhome in our village?
I am not being arrogant as many of you think. We live in small closed village which only has one way in and one way out. At one end of it is an illegal gipsy site which we have been trying to get closed down for 3 years. Cost the local council hundreds of thousands in legal fees and now this government has allowed them to stay. 
We have 3 caravan sites (2 CL's) and a private site together with a huge rally field.
So as you can see we do more than our bit for us travelling people.
My point is that as we have only one main street and if you tried to park overnight you would be asked by the local bobby or one of the residents to move on to one of the CL's.
I don't think that is unreasonable. My point is that if you park in somebody else's back yard there may be very good reasons why you should consider them first.
It seems to me that there are some very selfish people on this forum but I am sure there is a silent majority who park and camp with consideration and not hide behind what they consider is their rights under the law.


----------



## griffly16 (Jul 6, 2006)

Content removed by moderator.


----------



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks for clarifying your statements, John. I think the earlier tone may have raised a few eyebrows.



2kias said:


> It seems to me that there are some very selfish people on this forum


I really don't think so. I've never got that impression, and I'm sure everyone on here would always take into consideration the position of their motorhome before parking up for any extended period (i.e. longer than a few minutes). I know you would always look to stay on a site, but there are people on here who enjoy wild camping, but again, I'm sure they do their utmost to keep the intrusion to a minimum, especially with regards to litter, etc.

Gerald


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks for that Gerald.
Perhaps I have got the wrong impression but as you can see we have had a basin full of caravans etc in the village and they don't have a very good name round here no matter who owns them.
Moderator
Thank you for removing griffly's comment. I don't think my views were that extreme!!!


----------



## griffly16 (Jul 6, 2006)

Can the moderator who removed my last post please give me an explanation why? There was no offensive content - just a bit of humour.


----------



## Guest (Feb 3, 2007)

A User of my Parking web site sent me the following in August last year:
_We discovered a nice little overnighting spot whilst away over the Bank Holiday, it's another one for Northumberland, on the way to Holy Island. Leave the A1 at West Mains (signposted Beal/Holy Island) and follow the road down to the start of the causeway to the island. Immediately before the causeway is a car park on the left hand side. Very quiet, no signs saying "No Motorhomes" or "Overnight Parking". Obviously being a car park there are no facilities, but it is free and fairly level. _

I am sure that the person concerned genuinely believed that he was causing no problems to anyone. However, when I undertook the exercise of contacting all local councils I was informed by Berwick Upon Tweed Council that _the car park referred to was created to take waiting traffic off the main road leading on to the tidal causeway - due to poor sight lines and a high accident risk prior to the causeway. While there are no relevant parking signs, this area does form part of an English Nature reserve covering the coastal strip and Holy Island. It is suggested that a check be made with English Nature regarding any restrictions on camping, etc within the reserve._

The person I dealt with at Berwick was very helpful and concerned to offer the best advice he could. However he also told me _There has been an increasing number of mobile homes noted in the last two years and there is no specific provision for them. We accommodate them in Castlegate long stay overflow, Berwick; Chare Ends, Holy Island; Bamburgh and Seahouses overflow where there is sufficient space for larger vehicles and they are currently charged as per the car rate. 
However, we also observe an increasing number who intend to use car parks as overnight stopping places as they do not incur the cost of a pitch on a legitimate site. This has caused friction with residents and with organisations such as AONB and English Nature where camping, etc is not permitted in reserves etc. There are no toilet emptying facilities at any car parks. 
The size of some vehicles is also causing concern and we are seriously looking at revising the order to restrict some car parks in areas unsuitable for larger van derived vehicles but under 3.5 tonnes. The Councils current policy does not encourage caravans or mobile homes to be brought into town centres in historic/rural locations. We would encourage such users to book vans into recognised sites and travel by alternative means to enjoy the area. _

So, here we have a council that has been sympathetic to the needs of MH owners for parking (at least during the day) and has made provision where possible - but is now in danger of being turned against us by the actions of a few.

Yes, we have rights, but so do other people and we will only achieve our reasonable aims if we take those of other people into account.

Graham


----------



## peedee (May 10, 2005)

The original theme of this thread was about stopping for a sandwich NOT about overnight parking. Clearly there are very few of us who would support the attempts of anyone to move us on if we were simply legally stopping for even a few hours let alone just having a sandwich.

Overnighting is a different kettle of fish.

I think Detourer posted something similar last year and there is clearly a risng tide of opposition to the increase in motorhomes overnighting or apparently overnighting. 

I think we ALL should take note of Graham's post and the letters of opposition in the Portuguese Times. If this rising tide of opposition continues it could result in even more curbs on where we can or cannot park rather than less which we all want.

peedee


----------



## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

You know people I really don't want to put an opinion on this thread it's starting to get a little bit silly!

Don't you think this has gone a bit too far?

Of course it is wrong to overnight where you are not supposed to, but my guess is most of us that would do that, would accept being politely asked to move on.

However, as peedee has just mentioned, come on it's only a sandwich for lunch and as has also been mentioned, and I missed earlier, it says no caravans so the people in their MH were OK in what they where doing.

So it has been real fun reading some of the input, but lets not throw our teddy bears in the corner. We all have something that we get uptight about and I guess we can now see why 2kias gets cheesed off.

So live and lets live and cool down so we can all meet up and have a beer/wine/whisky/gin and tonic or whatever and chill out!

With respect to everyones view

Regards

Chris


----------



## 95531 (Jun 23, 2005)

Thanks for clearing that up John,I have to say that your post at first seemed to be confrontational,and,to me anyway,an invitation to come and park in YOUR village to "see what happens". Now that you have described your village I am sure that most of us would not consider it a suitable place to stop for a sandwich.Perhaps you should direct your enthusiasm towards the tinkers encampment with the same gusto you had in mind for us"then see what happens"! regards,paddywhack.


----------



## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

phew :!:

seems like everyone is calming down at last and talking common sense,I thought this thread would end up in the members bar.

Having re-read through the posts in my opinion GJH has made the most pertinent comments;

[*i]Seems to me that wherever we park (as with most other things in life) we need to be conscious of the fact that our actions might cause some sort of problem for somebody else and ensure as far as is reasonable that we avoid causing such problems.

I - like many other members of this forum - would love to see more overnight stopover places officially approved (not necessarily provided) by local authorities. If that is to occur then we need to demonstrate the benefits that would accrue to local communities. If we act in a manner which creates a lobby group against motorhomes (no matter how unreasonable/selfish the group is) then local councillors having their ears bent by potential voters will not be minded to listen to our arguments.

Graham [/i]*

Perfectly said Graham and thankyou for saying it,if we lose public opinion then it is increasingly likely that new legislation will be introduced to the detriment of motorhomers.

Steve and Sharon


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

PaddyWhack said:


> Thanks for clearing that up John,I have to say that your post at first seemed to be confrontational,and,to me anyway,an invitation to come and park in YOUR village to "see what happens". Now that you have described your village I am sure that most of us would not consider it a suitable place to stop for a sandwich.Perhaps you should direct your enthusiasm towards the tinkers encampment with the same gusto you had in mind for us"then see what happens"! regards,paddywhack.


Believe me, the whole village has been up in arms over the travellers site.
We were defeated by the wretched Human Rights Act and a government that seems hell bent on ignoring our human rights!

I do not want to see the sort of problems we have had becoming an issue with us motorhomers.


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

Morning all,

Yes, it's good to see it's all calming down a bit, but if people didn't inflame the situation and put the fire out with petrol, it wouldn't be so heated.

2kias, a couple of points for you. Like PaddyWhack, I too thought you were confrontational, in fact, provocative, in your attitude. It was percieved as offensive. However, I see you have now found the reverse gear on your bike.

As to the gypsies, they are "your" gypsies, for if they are within the boundaries of your village they are yours, and I think you said earlier on another thread that you were a councillor, therefore as you are elected to represent the residents of the village, you are also responsible for other residents, legal or otherwise, permanent or temporary. You should respect their rights in the same way you do the people who elected you. That is why they won under the Human Rights Act. It's sad that they had to invoke this to be recognised as humans in the first place.

I think you were sincere in your original posting, believing that we would all agree with you, now that you've got egg on your face, you are coming out with rationalisations. We saw the real you the first time.

desertsong


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

John..this is asked purely and simply from a spirit of curiosity not from any attempt to be confrontational.

I imagine the travellers site you have in the village is not an official Worcestershire one ? Presumably also it is the sort of tip that we all see and deplore with rubbish, gas bottles, scrap metal and so on all over the place ? 

Presumably someone from the village has talked to the occupants and asked them why they shoot themselves in the foot by letting the site get this way ? We've all seen encampments in laybys and, after a very short time, they too are a mess. WHY ? Local councils are usually only too keen to collect rubbish -for a small charge of course as the travellers are not rate payers. The caravans have internal toilets and these can be driven off and dumped in a public loo if there is nothing else.

The travellers themselves keep the inside of their vans spotless from what I can see and they must realise that they would not be met with such venom if the outside of their camp was also clean, quiet and as inconspicuous as possible. 

I have heard traveller's children that I teach tell me that they live at one with nature but they can't answer why they then throw polythene bags all over the place and flatten fields and hedges.

Oxfordshire provides some organised traveller sites ( as I think do Worcestershire) but they are not always as well-kept as they could be. I understand there are not enough of them.

Can anyone explain this ?

G


----------



## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Another good post wakk.
This type of subject is always going to get hackles up one way or the other, for and against.
Your always going to get freeloaders who think its their god given right to sponge off others and live their lives as cheaply as they can, (gypsy mentality but without the crime, whats yours is mine ideal) fairs dos if you can achieve it without upsetting people.
On the other hand you have Mr & Mrs average who like to pay their way and cause nobody any trouble while they go about life enjoying themselves while not upsetting others, personally I get embarrassed easily so dont like taking advantage and consequently probably miss out on a lot of freebies that come along. Gonna put my tin hat on now :wink:


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

Ok Guys. I will put my cards on the table
As it happens I am not a councillor for our village but in a town close by. As I no longer have a business in the town (retired) I can no longer stand again in May so have decided to give it all up. The town and parish councils have had all their power taken away by various governments of different hues and it is no longer a privilege to represent ones constituents. Consequently, councillors get the blame but do not have the power to actually do anything about what is happening around them.
The District and County councils have the power and these are now run by the officers in many cases.

Our local travellers site (They are not gipsies) is very clean and well run and I understand that they all pay their council tax. The problem is that they bought the land and set up a site without planning permission. They did not get it and were told to leave as the area was outside the planning zone. Three years later they get permission through the government.
I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wished to live in a caravan or mobile home but the laws of this country are for all of us.
We have to get permission to build an extension but if it interferes with our neighbours we don't get.
You can argue all you like about the planning laws and their rights and wrongs but they are there for us all and we are supposed to follow them.

The problem we now have is that anyone can buy a field in the country and set up a residential site with at least a 50% chance of getting away with it. (Maybe the one next to you)
Our District Council has provided more sites than any other in the County but has only managed to stop one site from being used.
It is costing us ratepayers a fortune to fight these cases but if we don't then we stand a chance of losing some of our countryside we all hold so dear.
(If global warming doesn't get us all in the end!)

Yes I am probably seen as confrontational but there are a hell of a lot of people round this part of Worcestershire who feel exactly the same but don't own a motor home.

It has been a very interesting and revealing discussion.
I rest my case.


----------



## 95531 (Jun 23, 2005)

Thats fine John,you are a pillar of your community,fair play to ye,but what has this got to do with your original post,no mention of travellers,councilors and planning permissions there,just a "vigilante" type post,directed at your fellow motorhomers.I do not see the point of your post,if YOUR village is as you describe it then anyone driving a motorhome through the village would immediately recognise that it was not a suitable place to stop for a sandwich,credit us with some common sense.paddywhack.


----------



## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Travellers are not Gypsies, on the whole proper Romany Gypsies are decent people who try and live and travel amongst us without causing trouble wherever they go. They earn money as they go even if they dont like to part with any of it to the taxman. Here in Dorset we have both, your average itinerant traveller is sc-m and behave like they are. Wherever they pitch up crime figures go through the roof, they take what they want from wherever its not bolted down, they trash wherever they stay and cost the ratepayers thousands in clean up fees. We have just had a group stay in a local large office block car park near us. They blatantly used the car park as a toilet in full view of the workers in the offices wihout any attempt to hide what they were doing. They broke up scrap and left all the unwanted mess strewn around. They went round the locallity fleecing old age pensioners ino having their roofs mended and their drives tarmacced at exhorbitant rates under fear of violence if they didnt pay. No travellers arent Gypsies they are many times worse. 
Get them on to proper sites whatever it costs but make them pay for the priviledge of living like the rest of us and make them pay taxes and above all make them clean up their own mess. How they can enjoy living under those conditions is beyond me.


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

PaddyWhack said:


> Thats fine John,you are a pillar of your community,fair play to ye,but what has this got to do with your original post,no mention of travellers,councilors and planning permissions there,just a "vigilante" type post,directed at your fellow motorhomers.I do not see the point of your post,if YOUR village is as you describe it then anyone driving a motorhome through the village would immediately recognise that it was not a suitable place to stop for a sandwich,credit us with some common sense.paddywhack.


Sorry PaddyWhack if I digressed from the point but you asked!!!!
My 'vigilante' attack was not aimed at all the responsible motorhomers just those who seemed to want to upset those people on the continent whom I do feel have a point.
Anyway we are off tomorrow to enjoy the scenes in the Derbyshire Dales for a few days on a CC site!!!!


----------



## 95531 (Jun 23, 2005)

Sorry PaddyWhack if I digressed from the point but you asked!!!!
My 'vigilante' attack was not aimed at all the responsible motorhomers just those who seemed to want to upset those people on the continent whom I do feel have a point.
Anyway we are off tomorrow to enjoy the scenes in the Derbyshire Dales for a few days on a CC site!!!![/quote]Well,ok then,but just remember,no stopping for sandwiches anywhere on route,else I'll get the motorhome police onto you.


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

hi,

2kias - Ok Guys. I will put my cards on the table

This wasn't a voluntary act on your part. You just painted yourself into a corner, so when you say, "I rest my case", what case was that then? Sounds more like get off my case.

As I see no retraction in your "vigilante assertion", am I to assume that you really are saying that nothing changes, you still feel the same, although the new story of your village shows how distorted the original statement was in order to suit your view.

Have you ever seriously tried politics? You might find you have a talent for it.
desertsong


----------



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I think we've had enough of the personal sniping. The discussion has strayed waaay off topic.

Gerald


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

gerannpasa said:


> Thanks for clarifying your statements, John. I think the earlier tone may have raised a few eyebrows.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes Gerald, there are people on here who enjoy wild camping. We do this the vast majority of the time, only using campsite for admin purposes. There have been occasions when we have found a nice out-of-the-way spot where we have cleaned up other peoples rubbish (not normally other MH'ers rubbish but rubbish discarded by the locals) so that our stay is more pleasant for us. This by default may help to keep up the good name of MH'ers.

Tonyhunt - "travellers arent Gypsies they are many times worse." We take exception to this comment because we regard ourselves as travellers. Motorhomers fulltiming = travellers? We think your comment is aimed at so called "new age travellers", as was.


----------



## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

You have obviously led a sheltered life and dont live in the real world if you havent come across itinerant travellers and dont know what they are.


----------



## metblue (Oct 9, 2006)

*lunch break*

Re,Little Englanders. We were all down the coast and used campsites and wild camped where possible.Discretion is the name of the game,arrive,pitch up leave the area as you would hope to have found it,if not better.Did this for three and a half months with NO ONE knocking on my door at any time. If I was legally stoped to have a cuppa and a roll,maybe an afternoon siesta.I know that I would tell them where to sling their long noses and attitude and stay longer than i really wanted just to p*** them of.We are in no rush were retired and out to use our van as we see fit.Do you thing "little englanders" would have had the balls to say it to the owners of a German plated motorhome!!! I rest my case.
GET A LIFE!!!!


----------



## 101465 (Oct 19, 2006)

I only bought my Motorhome last October and have hardly used it yet (wifey's been ill) but after finding this site and reading many of the posts I am wondering if I have made a very expensive mistake, is it really this bad in both Europe and UK? do I have to find a camp site if I want to have a look around a place, or stop for a meal, I bought my Motorhome to go touring, if I wanted to stay on sites all the time I would have stayed with Caravaning, I expect to use sites most nights for sleeping but during daylight hours want to be off in the van sightseeing, surely its not as bad as many people are making out. Please somebody tell me that with a little care and cosideration I will be able to go about my leisure time with some degree of pleasure.
Failing that anyone want to buy a Swift Gazelle.

Tony


----------



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi, Tony

Of course, you're right. With a little consideration, I'm sure no one will mind you stopping to sight-see. It's true, some authorities are getting a bit twitchy about motorhome and caravans parking up, but these are in the minority. As others have said, it's not a major problem. Daytime parking is fine, as long as you're not being a nuisance. You'll have no problems if you're camping in approved sites each night.

Gerald


----------



## Guest (Feb 4, 2007)

boppintone said:


> I only bought my Motorhome last October and have hardly used it yet ...<snip>....I expect to use sites most nights for sleeping but during daylight hours want to be off in the van sightseeing, surely its not as bad as many people are making out. Please somebody tell me that with a little care and cosideration I will be able to go about my leisure time with some degree of pleasure.


I'll echo what Gerald said, having had similar experience to you - only bought our van last June.
The care that is necessary for daytime parking is to find a place where it is OK to park - no height, weight restrictions etc. That's the main reason I started my web site. Hopefully, in time, more local authorities will see the advantage of attracting MHs during the day.

Graham


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

boppintone said:


> . Please somebody tell me that with a little care and cosideration I will be able to go about my leisure time with some degree of pleasure.
> Tony


Tony...before you go off to Europe buy a copy of Le Guide Officiel Aires de Services Camping-Cars or buy one at a supermarket when you get there.
In the back of that are several pages of dedicated town and city parking places for motorhomes. In some you can go on to spend the night, others you cannot. The rest of the book is a guide to the places in Europe where you can overnight, often with water, waste dump and even electricity.

Also has lists of dealers and addresses - useful if you need a spare part or have a crisis. There are also lists of service areas on autorroutes where you can dump and refill.

We have never had any problem parking to sight-see and have never had anyone move us on or suggest that we should not be there.

The Camping Car book has a website from which you can order in UK. I can't remember where we got ours from - could have been Amazon France

G

http://www.campingfrance.com/campingenfrance.jsp?idPage=63


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Overnight*

Hello All,

Overnighting is a different kettle of fish is it?

Totally Disagree, with discrection it is a human right. My council tax is edging towards £200 per Month, my income tax is sky high, as is my National insurance, company car taxation, VAT and so on. We even pay more tax on Car Fuel than most in the developed world.

Having said that yes we are lucky to have fuel very lucky. Even more the money to buy it. I do not see my (Sorry our) local council or most other doing much about the homeless! Do you see them being moved off, or better stiill given free services anything like the resources the Gypsys get!.

What a load of old Crap

"I do not agree with wildcamping"
"Try parking that in my village"
"Would you mind moving on"
"That thing is blocking my view"
"Bunch of freeloaders"

and the rest of the comments. It is no wonder so many of us stay on the road or take our luck and try living abroad. Be it in constructed homes or otherwise. My savings on council tax alone could keep going, just need to find work even if it is on a campsite.

Trev


----------



## 102706 (Jan 29, 2007)

TonyHunt said:


> You have obviously led a sheltered life and dont live in the real world if you havent come across itinerant travellers and dont know what they are.


Ever been to Black Horse beach in Portugal?? We have, didn't like 'em either.

Ooh dear, we seem to have ruffled the feathers of one the peacocks of this thread by disagreeing with an earlier comment.

To assume we have led a sheltered life could not be further from the point.

Having spent 20 years in the forces, I have probably had more comrades and men killed than you have had fortnights holidays in your camper. Having spent another 10 years as a social worker in the UK, working with junkies and thieves, I have probably visited more prison cells than you have had hot cups of tea in your camper during your fortnight holidays and over the past 7 years have spent the majority of the time wild camping around europe and sometimes, have found ourselves in such out of the way places, we have had to catch and kill food for the day. SHELTERED LIFE, I don't think so.

"Not all muslims are islamic terrorists", "not all children with older men are at risk of being abused" and not all travellers are the tramps and thieves that you referred to in a previous post.

Before you make assumptions on my life, I suggest you get one of your own.


----------



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

When people start putting labels on other people things start to go awry..... :roll:


----------

