# Re-Mapping or Smart Box



## fdhadi

Looking into either Re-Mapping or having a Smart Box fitted.

We have a 5000kg 2.8jtd Motorhome which has the short 5th gear. At the moment we are averaging 22.5mpg with 5,500mils on the clock. Its 2.5yrs old and has 6mths warranty on the engine side.

:? 

Pro's & Con's please!!!!!!!!


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## DABurleigh

Frank,

I'm not sure there are any. I have a Smart Box with which I am very happy. It has an advantage during warranty but this is not an issue for you.

As to the alternatives, I'd go by the reputation and experience of the supplier, and stay away from those who offer the largest increases in bhp and torque.

Dave


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## trevorf

Hi Frank 

Like Dave, I also fitted a smart box primarily so that it can easily be removed when the van goes in for a service. Also has the advantage of being removable if anything goes wrong with it. 

I have heard that re mapping is slightly more efficient but also more expensive generally. 

Trevor


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## sersol

I had re-mapping done by TB Turbo of Lancaster,some of the best money I spent.Forget better mph,I just get a smile every time I fly up a hill in top gear. :lol: 

Gary


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## 101011

A remap is completely undetectable and uses a method of fine tuning the programming of the engine management system. Remapping can achieve much better power and torque gains because you can alter so many more settings. So making the most from the engine.

Smart boxes do work but they cannot achieve what a remap can, they fool the ECU into supplying more fuel, which in turn produces more power. They can be removed at service time but thats added hassle. And once removed they can leave error codes inside the ECU and some dealers/manufacturers are starting to recognise these codes.

A good remap should not cost more than a respectable tuning box solution.

I've driven plenty of motorhomes including the Fiat 2.8JTD on 5000kg chassis and I know how much hard work it is for the Fiat. Thats why people look for the 416 merc for that weight which is much "quicker". A remap will take the Fiat power way past the Merc and make life much easier.


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## DABurleigh

While I stand by my earlier post as "big hand, small map" advice on this question, there are further subtleties MHF potential purchasers might like to ponder.

It is true that more factors can potentially be adjusted through re-mapping than through the use of a smart box; any and all of the information inside the ECU can potentially be changed with a re-map. This does not necessaily mean better power and torque gains, however, as the factors that are usefully adjusted inside the ECU to give these gains are the same factors that are adjusted by the smart box - the fuelling and sometimes the injection timing. Most of the factors inside the ECU that can be potentially adjusted are of no benefit to the power, torque or reliability of the vehicle; it's just a question of whether the changes are made inside or outside the ECU.

A re-map is not completely undetectable. Many modern vehicle ECUs now store a log of when they have been flashed, how many times they have been flashed and what file they have been flashed with. Vehicle dealers and manufacturers are more than capable of telling that an ECU has been overwritten simply by connecting the vehicle to their diagnostic equipment. 

In addition the software that is stored on a vehicle ECU is as prone to bugs and glitches as any complex software and vehicle manufacturers do sometimes make updates to correct problems. These updates will be flashed to your ECU during servicing and can overwrite your tuned map. Once this is done there is no way for you to recover your tuned map; you would need to go and have the ECU re-flashed again in order to recover your lost power. You may have to pay again for this privilege, and is a point I encourage MHF re-mapping purchasers to check explicitly. This loss of data is obviously not possible with a smart box.

It would be a rare occurrence for a smart box to cause a fault code and most fault codes that can be set by the smart box illuminate a warning light on your dashboard so you would be well aware that a problem had occurred before you went to the dealer. There are codes known as "soft codes" that can be stored in the ECU without illuminating the warning light but these tend to be for very minor faults that do not relate to the running of the vehicle so will not point to or be caused by aftermarket enhancements.

All fault codes can be triggered in numerous ways and there are no codes that will immediately point to an upgrade being fitted. It is also common practice for dealerships to clear fault codes and retest the vehicle to see whether they re-occur before investigating further.

Dave


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## JustRadio

This is all new stuff to me, although I have seen ads for the Van Aaken when I had my VW. Is the reprogramming a standard off the shelf thing improving engine performance acorss the range, or do they look at your vehicle and say, "You need our C model for that Sir".

Likewise the mapping, are there loads of variable maps for each engine according to vehicle and use?

With this discussion on 2.8 Fiats, can you also do this with older (1997) 2.5 Fiats?


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## DABurleigh

John,

Yes, whether re-map or smart box, it is custom to the engine/vehicle (base) combination.

Dave


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## badger

8O ......So....having read through this thread......I have a Boxer 2.5 Diesel.......normally aspirated.....that sometimes struggles a bit on long hills...........Would a smart box benefit me.........would it damage (or wear out) the engine quicker..............how much are they and where can I get one?............. :roll:


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## RichardnGill

Badger, I think you are out of luck, remaps ETc. only work on drive by wire Turbos (I think)


I have had 2 cars one petrol and one derv both with remaps and had no problems with either of them. One of the re maps was switchable and you could set it to normal to make it harder to detect, but I would say a dealer could always find out if you have had a re map. As for MPG I defiantly did notice an improvement of about 2/3 mpg in a car as well as more power every where in the rev range.

Richard...


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## 92180

Dave is quite correct on the flash upgrade removing previous re map. This is quite common on MB, Volvo, VW and Audi cars and will definitely over write your paid upgrade. 

I have a smart box fitted and it has made a noticeable difference to the smoothness and drivability of my MH. I get good MPH for the size and weight as I tow as well. The box takes about 5 mins to remove and refit. 

I looked at many manufacturers and spoke at lenght re any over fuelling problems or excessive exhaust temp. these are the most likely items to set off an error code and set the system to emergency running. 

3500 miles with box and not a puff of smoke.


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## DABurleigh

12000 miles with a box and a big grin


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## Don_Madge

18,000 miles with Smart Box big smile and a heavier wallet.


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## 2kias

DABurleigh said:


> 12000 miles with a box and a big grin


25,000 miles with a box on a Sorento and another big grin with no problems. Even left it on during service as dealers weren't bothered. Doesn't affect mpg but does give you more bhp.
Waiting for another for the motorhome which is on its way.
Go for it!
Try this link. Great guy called Taff with loads of info. Tell him what vehicle you have got and he will come back with an answer.

http://www.griffinmotortuning.com/


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## exmusso

*Still 2 Kias*

Hi John,

That partially answers a question. Have you still got the Sorento and Picanto? I've still got my Sorento and got a Corsa to pull behind m/h on a trailer.

My Sorento - plug and play chip - removed before service. Been on car for 3 years now and no problems, big improvement.

Previously Citroen Xantia - Superchip - Good performance but occasionally threw up engine management light and engine went into limp home mode. A stop, switch off and then restart usually cured it but was always waiting for it to happen again - like ouside lane of motorway whilst overtaking line of trucks - not funny.

Fiat Tipo TD - mechanical injection but optimization carried out by VanAken - big improvement in performance, smoke and fuel consumption.

Motorhome - Rimor with Transit 350 137bhp/ 277lb/ft as standard. I'm all for 'chipping' it but as it pulls from 30mph in sixth gear, I would prefer a lower back axle ratio (or is that higher) to get the revs down.

Cheers,
Alan


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## RichardnGill

Sorry this is a bit of subject but I am thinking of getting a Transit based M/H with the same engine as yours exmusso (2.4 140 TDCI, RWD twin wheels)if you don't mind me asking what RPM is it doing at 70Mph? and what mpg do you normally get?

Thanks Richard...


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## exmusso

*RPM and MPG*



RichardnGill said:


> Sorry this is a bit of subject but I am thinking of getting a Transit based M/H with the same engine as yours exmusso (2.4 140 TDCI, RWD twin wheels)if you don't mind me asking what RPM is it doing at 70Mph? and what mpg do you normally get?
> 
> Thanks Richard...


Hi Richard,
I just had a quick glance last time out - at 60mph revs were 2500 - so should be 2900 rpm at 70. Bucket loads of torque - just feel it could pull higher gears easily or lower back axle ratio.

Fuel consumption has been fine - I guesstimate just below 30 with a tight engine - now done 5k. On my recent trip to Devon/Cornwall, I was pulling a Corsa on a four wheel trailer and after first couple of fills, didn't bother measuring consumption.

I must admit I was a bit concerned after reading some of the tests in the magazines and they were quoting below 20mpg.

Cheers,
Alan


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## 2kias

Hi Alan
Sent you a PM.
John


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