# Blow MHF; thank goodness for www.campingcar-infos.com! :-)



## DABurleigh

We returned late last night from a fortnight in France. I had planned it to be a fortnight limited to Brittany. I had conducted some research, in particular using the excellent MHF campsite database to create a virtual site brochure, printing it out then exporting the GPS coordinates using MHF and placing the file on TomTom.

So far so good.

The problem came after just 24 hours. It was WET. The forecast was WET. The long-range forecast was WET. The Sky News weather sub-channel satellite forecast showed a succession of depressions heading straight for Blighty/ Northern France. Well, after just a week in Cyprus in mid-May had given us the next 4 years' worth of Cyprus's May rain, we needed SUN. It doesn't feel much like Global Warming but the weather in the Med this spring has certainly been strange.

So, we utilised the flexibility of our motorhome and headed due South to the Med. If it hadn't been sunny when we hit the coast we would have continued to Barcelona. Fortunately the sun shone.

The motorhome was flexible. We were flexible. But unfortunately MHF is not. The virtual brochure and GPS download is deliberately mandraulic, so I only had a sample of the Brittany data printed or on TomTom; nothing further afield. Internet access from abroad is still inconvenient or expensive. I don't want to spend my holiday searching out internet cafes to do campsite research on MHF. Fortunately I had all the information from www.campingcar-infos.com, including its and Camperstop's GPS data safely on TomTom.

But, oh, how I wished I could have had access to MHF's campsite goldmine. I haven't yet plucked up courage to see where we should have gone according to your recommendations.

So, is my experience unique? I seemed a rare voice in the recent past trying to get the virtual brochure improved (thanks nuke and Frank). And I alerted nuke that the GPS export facility was wonky due to the 3rd party web application MHF uses. Maybe people don't use these MHF facilities. Or maybe the sun shines wherever they take their van. Or maybe they like the rain. I don't know.

Anyway, I have already discussed with nuke some options for making the MHF campsite data more available/ more flexible. He is very conscious that it is an attractive resource, and so understandably wants to protect it from poaching by those who have not contributed to it. This is why the virtual brochure and GPS export is deliberately limited by its mandraulic interface.

What do MHF members want? Potentially a Camperstop-type solution is a good compromise - a country book plus linked GPS data, optionally degraded (though this degradation IMHO would inevitably demand a much bigger book, more expensive to produce and distribute). Compact listings would be essential - maybe text only as per the CC International book, leaving out pictures posted in the campsite database.

*Over to you for your thoughts.*

I'm off to No 2 son's graduation for a couple of days, so haven't yet done a write-up of my trip or posted new sites into the MHF database. I'll do that on my return, possibly just editing this post. In the meantime, here are some photos, and our graphical itinerary.

> Photos of fortnight in France <

Dave










Edit: herewith the motorhoming trip report

I'll refer to pictures by number in the temporary weblink above; you might like to have it open in a separate browser tab or window.

We chose S Brittany for our main (in terms of length, anyway, 2 weeks) holiday this year. The principal reasons were that, firstly, whereas we had "done" Brittany with a caravan, we really had only scratched the surface, staying somewhere central and popping out for days in the car, and secondly, a new job for the last few months had entailed quite a bit more driving, so something closer to home made sense from that point of view. Even so, as 2 weeks were still a limitation, after a planned stop at Le Mont St Michel, we intended to dive straight to South Brittany rather than spent much time on the northern coast.

Alison had a fixed weekend away on an embroidery course when we were due to start our fortnight, so to get us off to a flying start and further cut the driving, we booked LD Lines from Portsmouth to Le Havre, leaving on the Sunday night. Their prices seemed MUCH more attractive than Brittany Ferries.

*Day 0*
We left home at 9pm and after a quick blast down the M3 & M27 became the penultimate vehicle onto the ferry after a short wait, happily trundling along the length of a vehicle deck to be right at the front for a quick getaway. We checked into our cabin - standard fare and everything worked - before enjoying the departure from the open deck at 11pm (much more interesting than Dover) and then turning in, as it was well past midnight French time.

Alison had a restless night with various ship noises, the price she pays as she can't stand those yellow foam earplugs that I discovered when our sons were babies (I think I'm losing sympathy from MHF's female contingent at this point). Whereas I slept the sleep of the innocent.

*Day 1*
A cooked breakfast got us off to a good start, even better was that we were the second vehicle OFF the ferry. LD Lines was good, just what you expect of a ferry really; not too much I can think to say, which if I recall ferry trips over the last few years, is a testament in their favour.

We stopped on the Caen ring-road to stock up at LeClerc with provisions and diesel. DubPaul and his family were on the same ferry, but we had missed them with us getting on the ferry last and off first. Our routes diverged at Caen and we hadn't spotted their van.

We arrived at the aire 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=56
at the foot of Le Mont St Michel, had lunch and then a doze to top up the ferry sleep. 
(Pics 1-5)

We hadn't really anticipated all the shops and restaurants within the fortifications. It was good fun exploring. The tide goes out a long way, but my, does it come in fast. The car parks can get flooded to varying degrees (though not where we are on the aire); the coach car park to the right of Pic 2 flooded in the evening. You can't miss the warning signs, so it is no trouble. There are lots of guided walks way out on the sands (Pics 3 & 4). I was quite pleased with Pic 5 at night from right outside the van; not bad for a hand-held shirt-pocket camera. All these Pics have had their resolution reduced because of my limited webspace, but you can "zoom" in to a degree by clicking on the picture to get a moderate resolution.

*Day 2*
We had a lazy start to savour a lie-in on a weekday morning, a prolonged breakfast of croissants, good coffee, breakfast TV and a peruse of the Sunday papers which I had kept in reserve. All very nice, but the weather wasn't. And no good weather was on the horizon, either literally or the long-term Sky weather satellite picture. OK, the options are:

1)	Lunch in St Malo (Alison hadn't been), and either stay there overnight or visit a friend of hers holidaying in a gite in Roscoff.
2)	Dive straight down to the western end of S Brittany.
3)	Head South for some sun.
We chose option 3, on the basis one should go through life with as few regrets as possible, and my nightmare scenario was that after persevering to keep to our plan, we would return home not having seen much sun. I couldn't face this after the Cyprus weather we experienced in May was a trifle disappointing.

So we said goodbye to Le Mont St Michel, though did not appreciate at the time that fortified towns were to become a little sub-plot to our holiday, and Mr Zulu (or rather TomTom's English Jane) laid in a course South.

We lunched at a motorhome aire near where the autoroutes join at Niort:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2581
and called it a day at Donzac, a little way short of Toulouse:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2582
(Pics 6-8 )

As I report in that campsite entry "In your dreams every town/village has an aire such as this. Quiet (there is a road but it's dead in the evening). A small lake & bird/wildlife. Arboretum. Landscaped. Small children's playground. A considerable investment by a small village in which it would be impossible to buy much by way of return anyway! ….Recommended for a peaceful stopover."

Pic 6 - I thought this might be Alison's "come hither" look, but when I got there she was out for the count.

*Day 3*
The sun shone. This really was a delightful place. Neither of us seemed in a hurry to move on. Unfortunately soon after we had decided to stay a second night, and simply enjoy the sun, peace and have a read, it clouded over and looked to stay that way. Time to move on again.

Driving around Toulouse it was black and absolutely chucking it down. A "thunderstorm" gives the impression of something limited in geography and time; this one rather looked as if the end of the world was nigh - extended and sustained. I vowed that if it was not sunny when we hit the med coast, I'd turn right and we'd sleep near Barcelona tonight.

We lunched at the autoroute aire overlooking Carcassonne. Any other time it looked attractive enough to warrant a stopover at least, but we were on a mission for sun.

We didn't know much about this part of the Med coast, and as already explained, all your good feedback and recommendations were denied to us. Agde rang a bell, so we aimed there. Well the good news is that the sun was shining, and looked like it had been a while. The bad news was that we didn't like at all Agde at this time of year. It was manic, with campsites bursting and ad-hoc sites of gypsy white vans dotted all over the place to service the summer fairs, etc. Motorhomes were banned from the quayside (to where we had been recommended by a colleague's text message), and the campingcar.infos aire was no more, with a string of motorhomes just parked on the road instead.

Rather than risk facing the same up or down the coast, we aimed inland a handful of kms and stayed at Villeneuve-les-Beziers next to the Canal du Midi on a 3* site, for 3 nights as it turned out:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2583
(Pics 9-14)

*Day 4*
It was a joy lazing in the sun and cycling easily along the canal. Pic 10 is a flight of 7 locks at Beziers. Pic 11 must be the best mural I have ever seen - it is on a house next to the Hotel de Ville in Villeneuve-les-Beziers. The cars are real. The FLAT side of the house is just a blank canvas. The killer fact is that the house wall is in total shade. In fact the sun is way to the RIGHT and just "behind" the wall. Amazing.

The restaurants right outside the site on the side of the canal are good quality and value. Pic 12 shows a novel way of presenting the mailboxes for the moored canal boats/barges.

Though we had found sun and were enjoying ourselves, personally I didn't feel settled but didn't know why. Once I had resolved that it was a man thing, or maybe a work thing, to the effect that "I had planned to be in S Brittany so that's what I've got to deliver, forthwith", I was happy to parcel up that unsettled feeling, dump it and become fully at ease.

*Day 5*
A day gadding about on the scooter all over the place. When we get deep into the absolutely tiny alleyways of a town such as Beziers, Alison might not be able to tell left from right, but her navigational intuition is spot on. At one point she said she felt like at any moment she'd see Michael Caine in The Italian Job. It was great fun.

We had plenty of beach ice-cream, tea & crepes and people-watching stops.

*Day 6*
A final cycle ride from the site to the river, back to do the motorhome ablutions then leave by noon.

Thought we'd try for an aire at Gruissan. As we entered the town we said nothing (later we agreed it was because it looked promising but we didn't want to put the kiss-of-death on the place by saying so). When we arrived at the Plage de Chalets it was full, with signs up directing us to the aire des 4 vents. It hadn't looked too inviting as we saw it over our shoulder on the way to the Plage de Chalets, but it was absolutely fine. Large, next to water, loads of yacht movements and a short walk to bars and restaurants, but not at all tacky. The yachty set, you see:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2593
We stayed 2 nights.
(Pic 15)

*Day 7*
It was getting hotter and more still. We enjoyed chatting to some long-terming Brits. That reminds me - all Brits I spoke with on this holiday either subscribed to MMM or they bought it regularly when back in the UK, they all used the internet regularly, and none had heard of MHF. Which tallies with our previous experiences.

I was just about to get the barbie going in the early evening when I noticed that a couple of wind generators were going again, but 180 deg about from the last time they were spinning. (This place is called 4 winds, after all). A minute later I jumped up and caught the awning supports before the growing wind got hold of it. 5 minutes later EVERYONE's awnings were safely stowed. It gave us an excuse for a tapas bar instead.

The wind grew throughout the night.

*Day 8*
Yesterday we had thought we'd stay a 3rd day, but the wind was relentless, too strong to enjoy sitting outside even if I'd bothered putting up the windbreak, so we moved inland again.

Carcassonne had looked interesting so we headed that way, stopping the night at a canal-side aire just short of it at Trebes:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=1463
(Pics 16-21)

*Day 9*
We had no plan as to where we might spend the night after "doing" Carcassonne, which is just as well because as we followed the parking signs for camping cars as we approached the Mediterranean city, we had to pay 10 euros. The parking had some shade, a MH servicing point (quite a fancy one I hadn't seen before) and was for 24hr, so that was that decision made early in the day:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2585
(Pics 22-31)

And we chalked up fortified town number 2 - very interesting and enjoyable.
Pic 30 - MIL flew in to say hi.
Pic 31 shows the parking/aire from the ramparts. Convenient or what?

We went into "downtown" Carcassonne in the evening, but despite treading the more obvious places, let's just say we didn't see it at its best.

*Day 10*
The big-hand-small-map weather situation over the last few days hadn't changed much from that now forecast in Pic 32. Frankly as each day had gone by it was obvious that northern France had been getting it in the neck as much as, if not more consistently than, Blighty. There was a suggestion that the nice weather in the south was gradually expanding northwards, which gave us some more options for the last days of our holiday.

We headed for the coast again, aiming for a suitable aire Montpellier way.

Palavas-les-Flots was full.
La Grande-Mott was shut. Indeed there seemed a lot of anti-camping car signs about.
We lunched at Le Grau du Roi aire in desperation:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2586
(though it has nice spots subsequently seen scooter-touring - eg Pic 33 - it's just you can't park anywhere)

before finally lucking-out at Aigues-Mortes (fortified town number 3)
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2587
(Pics 34-36)
and explored on scooter.

*Day 11*
As we left the coast and struck out north, Alison asked me if I'd had a nice holiday. Steady on girl, we still have 4 days to go; it's not the end of my holiday. "Oh yes", she said, "I was forgetting we didn't have a caravan". True enough, no more of those white-knuckled, gritted teeth, stony silence long drives at breakneck speed the length of France to catch the ferry 

We topped up with autogas at a normal fuel stop. I hadn't topped up before our holiday and was down to 10%, probably enough but perhaps borderline with more use of the barbie. I do prefer the French claw system to our bayonet one.

We went over the Millau bridge for the first time, stopping at the lookout point & exhibition on the North side. It is a tremendous aesthetic and structural design whose execution in build is just as impressive. The video is good. What brings it home is the schematic drawing to scale of the Eiffel Tower; that bridge is BIG!

(Pics 37 & 38 )

Lunch there, then on to Lac D'Aydat, as far as I could determine the nearest aire to the Puy de Dome:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=70
The information there is slightly out of date, and I have added a review, but apparently there are some intermittent gremlins in the campsite database review functionality.

The lake is a nice spot, but a funny mix of some bits decaying and not maintained, and other bits in a desperate panic to finish massive investment before the French holiday exodus starts.

(Pics 39-41) Note the "motorhomes over 8.2m banned" sign, a sign I had seen elsewhere, so I'm not sure if it is a length limit increasingly being deployed. As you can see from Pic 41, it seemed a stupid rule here.

*Day 12*
On to the Puy de Dome, with weather you couldn't better. All of France was finally in the clear after a miserable time other than in the South (Pic 42).

(Pics 43 - 49) An excellent few hours. Pic 47 - One has line of sight to Mont Blanc and Italy from here, West of Clermond Ferrand!

On to stop at a nice aire at Mennetou-sur-Cher, situated alongside a canal and near a river.
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2596
(Pics 50 - 52)
It was really hot with no air movement in the evening. We worked up a sweat even playing boules . As we retired, having watched high spirits at a big outdoor party as the locals were celebrating Bastille Day, all the windows were open and nets down but I couldn't feel any air movement through them. Yet again, I must ponder getting a big portable fan for when I can't have aircon. But it's another thing to carry, big, if slim, and not cheap. Other mental note - this was a quiet and secure spot (even the revellers piped down before midnight), so we were happy sleeping with just nets, but if it is really hot with little air movement, don't stay anywhere where people might slit the nets and reach inside.

*Day 13*
Sitting by the canal having breakfast, feeding the ducks, watching the fishermen and others get their morning baguette, I recognised this was more like life as it should be, and our manic existence in full time employment back home was the artificial one. Nothing will change for several years yet, and we'll live with that, but it was a precious moment when you realised you had life in proper perspective. I'll use that moment over and over again as a sanity check in the months to come, I'm sure.

Back on the road we stopped at Nonancourt for lunch:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2597
(Pics 53 & 54)

before arriving at the large aire at Honfleur, only to find it full at 3pm. Many seemed well established (a bit like caravanners with all the paraphernalia) and it made me wonder whether the aire system is being exploited and whether maximum stays should be enforced where it is manned.

So we consulted our bibles and decided on a 3* site nearby:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2599
(Pics 55-57)

We scootered into and around Honfleur, checking out supermarket opening times. Intermarche opened just for the following Sunday morning. We parked for free in the centre of the action in Honfleur; there were some magnificent motorbikes. It was packed. Fireworks were going off regularly to mark the festival. The restaurants were busting at the seams. While waiting outside one a firework was thrown from a car, it bounced up off Alison's ankle and exploded (that's what it sounded and felt like as I stood next to her) on her backside. Fortunately no damage was done to body or clothing beyond the surprise. As I said to her when she regained her composure and smiled, "anywhere else and you could have been done for …."

There were some lovely shops. One selling rugs had opened that day. The proprietor didn't speak English but I guess he felt honour bound to give us his life story to aid one of his first sales. He'd been a chemist for 14 years (no wonder he gave it up to sell rugs I thought, but then again I always give chemists a hard time). Frankly we were genuinely interested in one for our lounge. We agreed the colours and pattern were just right and having measured the width that was OK, too. Warning bells went off when he showed us the design in an artist's hardback book, and yes the price, AFTER a considerable discount, was 1,950 Euros. It may as well have been undiscounted at the 2,900 Euro list price. Ah well, another day.

(Pics 58 - 60)

*Day 14*
OK, I goofed. I rejected the open Intermarche, figuring that I'd rather buy cases of wine from a bigger hypermarket at Le Havre than have the hassle with a load of individual bottles off the shelf. So, over the toll bridge and I got English Jane to take us on a carefully sequenced tour of TomTom's shopping centres in Le Havre. There followed a very frustrating drive whose only practical use was taxi driver training. It certainly didn't get us any booze. In fact Le Havre was shut; you couldn't buy anything. We eventually got diesel, some ice creams for the freezer for lunch, parked up on the quay and gave up the quest:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=2598

(Pic 61)

We had a smooth crossing, got T-mobile UK reception from an hour out so caught up on email and MHF PMs before we docked, then a quick blast home, put the van to bed with empty tanks and loo, straight to bed, to wake up to an alarm at 6:30am and the artificial life of a working week.

Dave


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## Snelly

Nice route and nice pictures Dave


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## sallytrafic

access on the move is nuke's stated aim


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## DABurleigh

sallytrafic said:


> access on the move is nuke's stated aim


Frank,

At £7.50 per Mb typical roaming data charges, the MHF campsite database might be a goldmine, but you'd need to own one to pay for accessing it, irrespective of how compact you made the listings.

And it had better not have any link to the homepage - one inadvertent click and there's another £4 down the drain!

Dave


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## cobaltkoala

*Download to your Notebook?*

Would it not be possible to download the entire database to a notebook prior to departure, that way you would have the latest database available as of the date you leave. Would this be a difficult thing to achieve?
'Members Only of Course'


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## peedee

What is wrong with wifi access, they are not that difficult to find and are not expensive, many are free  

peedee

ps what is mandraulic??


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## geraldandannie

peedee said:


> ps what is mandraulic??


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mandraulic

There was some talk about making the campsite database 'stand alone', and I think it's on Nuke's "list of things to do".

Gerald


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## 89767

QUOTE
At £7.50 per Mb typical roaming data charges, the MHF campsite database might be a goldmine, but you'd need to own one to pay for accessing it, irrespective of how compact you made the listings.

And it had better not have any link to the homepage - one inadvertent click and there's another £4 down the drain!

Dave
QUOTE

Dave is it possible to set up an Autorout puspin set with all the recommended sites on, or other sat nav options?
We could then download the database before going away. Could be country specific or type of site, e.g. Aires Campsites etc.
To do this at the moment is a real pain because of having to go through the whole database & put them in your virtual brouchure.

Keith


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## artona

Hi

I am sure I can remember Nuke trying to get members to test a mobile version a few months ago but did not receive much response. Can anyone remember the thread.


stew


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## olley

Hi I think nukes concern is that any form of easy download will bring in the possibility of it being poached (not as in eggs)

Isn't it possible to do as MS do? download the data base then you have to download a code which allows it to work on your computer only.

No doubt people could find a way around this, but it would make it much more difficult to copy.

Olley


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## mauramac

Apologies for breaking in onto this thread but I wanted to read it and its gone into W I D E S C R E E N mode on my PC. 

All other topics are ok....just this one :? 


Is it me??????????



Maura {offtopic}


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## artona

Hi

Maura - its probably just the pic of the map.

here is a link to the beta testing of the mobile version I was refering to

stew


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## autostratus

I know you are talking of a live link via the internet but is there a viable alternative?

www.campingcar-infos.com has already been mentioned.
Could the information be made available for sale on disc as cc-infos do with the aires information they produce. The updated version is available every 2 months.

As to selling price.
For subscribers, cost + postage + 50p say
Non-subscribers, cost + postage + £12.50 (an incentive to suscribe?)

Although this doesn't preclude the changes to have it made more easily available online, it will I suggest, make the information available to more of us in the short term.


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## JohnH

Smashing pictures, especially the one's taken around Villeneurve (hope I spelled it correct). You stayed on the same pitch as we did a couple of weeks earlier. I haven't got around to putting my photo's on the forum yet.


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## javea

Hi Dave,

I have downloaded Camperstop France 2007 to my Windows XP laptop but I have not been able to then transfer it to my TomTom. As I see that you have done it could you possibly let me know how it is done.

Many thanks in anticipation of your kind assistance.

Regards,

Mike


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## mauramac

artona said:


> Hi
> Maura - its probably just the pic of the map.
> stew


Anyone else got to use slider bar to read the posts on this thread or just me then?

Sorry stew - do you mean its the pic of the map that has caused the wide screen effect?

Maura

 All is now clear....sorry everyone, just me having a senior moment! Page 2 all is back to normal


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## ojibway

Hi all,
We have been using campincar-infos list of aires for 2 years now. WE buy an updated CD each year and load it onto the laptop and Tom-Tom. It is excellent, and, as someone mentioned, updated every 2 months. Just go onto their website and order the CD, pay by Paypal and you get it in a few days.
Mike and Annie


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## Sagedog

Thanks Mike and Annie lets hope it arrives in time!


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## peedee

artona said:


> Hi
> here is a link to the beta testing of the mobile version I was refering to
> 
> stew


Must have missed the post on this, been missing a lot the past 3 months.
I tried this on my PDA yesterday and could not get it to work. I can log on and get the forums no problem but that is all.

Thanks Gerald for the pointer on mandraulic, not a term I have come across before and still not sure what part of the database and its access Dave considers "mandraulic"

My self I am not keen on accessing data on the move, tend to forward plan and if I deviate from that, I work from written guides and accept the surprises.

Autostratus's idea of providing a disc sounds good to me even though I don't have laptop but I would suggest a tiered discount system for members based on how many sites you have entered in the database. Might encourage a few more to enter information with those that have entered say over 50 sites entitled to a free one?

peedee


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## autostratus

peedee said:


> ........... I would suggest a tiered discount system for members based on how many sites you have entered in the database. Might encourage a few more to enter information with those that have entered say over 50 sites entitled to a free one?...........peedee


Sorry Peedee but I don't agree.

There are contributers to this site who have given much of there time and effort in other ways than by entering campsites. Are they not to be rewarded by equal rights to the campsite database?

With the number of campsites entered for the more popular areas having grown it will make it harder for new contributers to the database to find their 50 plus to earn the freebie. Perhaps it will encourage them to go to less popular areas and stay for only 1 night in order to give them the ability to quickly earn campsite 'points'. 

My final point is that once a member has become a subscriber they should be able to avail themselves of all the subscriber benefits.


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## sallytrafic

The thought of sorting through loads of campsite duplicates, ones that have just been copied in from this or that caravaning club without visits by people eager to get a freebie ....no I won't think about it any more I'll go for a lie down.


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## motorhomer2

Sagedog said:


> Thanks Mike and Annie lets hope it arrives in time!


Ordered mine last thursday & it came Monday. We have the DVD. There are some from other countries on the DVD as well. Very good value

Motorhomer2


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## peedee

sallytrafic said:


> The thought of sorting through loads of campsite duplicates, ones that have just been copied in from this or that caravaning club without visits by people eager to get a freebie ....no I won't think about it any more I'll go for a lie down.


I thought the software was resilient enough to reject duplicates  If it isn't it should be. I don't think it matters if you enter them from a guide at least the MHF data base is growing and becoming all encompassing.

Reviews could always count towards a discount as well, after all sites do change over time and people do have differing views. Just think some greater incentive might be required to increase the database.

peedee


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## sallytrafic

peedee said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thought of sorting through loads of campsite duplicates, ones that have just been copied in from this or that caravaning club without visits by people eager to get a freebie ....no I won't think about it any more I'll go for a lie down.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the software was resilient enough to reject duplicates  If it isn't it should be. I don't think it matters if you enter them from a guide at least the MHF data base is growing and becoming all encompassing.
> 
> Reviews could always count towards a discount as well, after all sites do change over time and people do have differing views. Just think some greater incentive might be required to increase the database.
> 
> peedee
Click to expand...

Its the near matches :wink: you would be surprised what some people call the same site, which took me Peejay and Olley an age to sort out. Also there are lots of places that do have different sites where for example a municipal and an aire are next door or a place that Boff found with three stellplatz as I recall in the same street! So you can't just blindly reject. Factor in peoples waywardness at location and partial details :roll: . My preference is for people to come back off holiday with a small number of sites for which they have full details and spend a little time entering them to keep the db as accurate as it can be.

sung to a popular tune " Its the mods that do approvals, but the admin gets the blame "  :lol:

but we digress its about ease of use when mobile.


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## Telbell

Would this be any use? (Web Downloader)
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/vista/2865/wd.htm


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## DABurleigh

Having done the campsite entries into the database, I've now edited my first post in this thread to include a motorhoming account of our holiday. I hope you find it useful.

Thanks for your replies; I'll answer them in due course, but just need to escape staring at this screen for a while 

Dave


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## Grizzly

Thanks Dave.. I've downloaded the blog for a quiet read tomorrow.

I would prefer to have my database of campsites as hard copies. To that end we take the CC Europe book(s) plus aires book etc and print outs of places we think we might use gleaned from various sources, inc MHF. I have various regional campsite leaflets collected as we travel or sent for from tourist offices before we go. I have a good database on Tomtom too.

A DVD or CD version of the MHF database would be a welcome addition but probably in practice not get much use as we travel. We do have a laptop with us but use it only in the evenings when we need to download photos.

We have wifi capability in theory but in practice we rarely get it to work for various reasons and don't want the additional expense of a WiFi account.
We use texts to keep in touch with the family. I actively don't want internet access as I'm too addicted already !

G


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## clianthus

Hi Dave

Good read, nice pics as well, glad you used one of the Aires I'd added to the database last year. 

We had the same weather problems last year and with the exception of the Millau Bridge, we came back up via the Dordogne, it's exactly what happened to us. We didn't intend going so far south but the weather forced our hand.

Sounds a wonderful holiday, hope you are enjoying your return to work :wink:


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## DABurleigh

peedee - I have to say I have never had much luck with finding free unencrypted wifi, but found it a good holiday timewaster. Wifi subscriptions seem very expensive for rare use. If you have any secrets… 
Getting either a print-out or a GPS download of MHF sites is mandraulic, because nuke wants to prevent poaching. You can readily do it for 10 or 20 sites, say, but forget it for even a single French Region. Whereas campingcar.infos or Camperstop allow a GPS download of everything in a few mouse clicks.

Olley - Cleary it is possible technically to protect to a great degree against software/data copying, but I have this feeling it is either too difficult, or nuke wouldn't want to go there with the MHF client base on multiple computers (desktop, laptop in van; all in all more trouble than it's worth?)

Maura - regarding horizontal scrolling check your screen resolution isn't as low as 800 by 600. It should be OK on 1024 by 768 in that you can read the whole page without continuous horizontal scrolling. On the 1920 by 1200 monitor I use the map takes up less than half the horizontal screen.

Stew - like peedee the mobile version had passed me by. I don't think it's the answer (apart from the fact it doesn't seem to work) as interrogating a graphical interface to select campsites is going to be VERY expensive from abroad, even if it is a condensed mobile version.

JohnH - small world! 

Mike - IIRC I just extracted the Camperstop 2007 F.ov2 and .bmp files from the downloaded .zip file and copied them to the France map folder on TomTom.

Telbell - MHF is proofed against website downloaders/ crawlers; you can do as certain others have done and try it (it must be said in ignorance) and get yourself banned  I don't understand the difference between this and search engine web-bots which seem to do OK, though. Perhaps I'll try my sophisticated Grab-a-site and wait for a PM from nuke 

--------------------------

OK, thanks to all for their thoughts so far, here are mine to take stock and hopefully prompt some more discussion; maybe nuke will come in to give it some focus.

If nuke's aim is access on the move, as I said to Frank I can't see an acceptable solution when roaming, simply because of excessive data charges.

We need to go back to square one and establish whether a 3rd party "poaching" MHF data is, or is not, a problem. It is not a problem for campingcar-infos.com, nor Camperstop, who provide multiple-country-all-site GPS data for free or a download fee, respectively. The former then provide their website on CD for a fee; the latter sells a book. What is so different for MHF?

One thing different is that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face; in preventing "poaching" we are denying full access to the members who have contributed it - unless their motorhome ends up on the handful of sites they predicted while tucked up at home on the end of a broadband connection. Would members mind what anyone else did with their copy of the data provided they could have one themselves? The MHF campsite data is really 3 fold - GPS data, photos and members' comments; the way I see it only the first could be imported easily elsewhere and potentially sold - so what and it's not a problem for campingcar-infos or Camperstop. The second and third would be easily traced to its MHF origins so couldn't be used without obvious theft of intellectual property.

IF potential poaching is a constraint, it can only be because the maximum value is to be made of the MHF campsite database by selling it in a way that absolutely no-one else can bypass by poaching or copying and potentially reselling. Well, OK, if so let's get on with it so I can buy one! 

*Thus it is the status quo that is the problem - denying it to members because it must be denied to others, because it is to be sold but we are not selling it!*

Once we get this bit straight, we can then talk about the best options for providing the data - POI file, CD and/or book, and if the last the best size/layout etc.

The provision of any of these (POI, CD or full listings) should be as automatic as possible, so that with minimal labour, annual or more frequent updates can be offered.

Dave


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## peedee

Thanks for expanding your views and the explanation. I enjoyed reading your account and have made a few notes of where to go in the future. Many thanks.

I looks like it is down to Nuke to now comment?

peedee


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## peejay

Thanks for the writeup Dave, enjoyed that, shame you didn't get to Vannes to check out that new aire but good weather is much more important  

Re the database, personally, I think we'll need a few more submissions before a CD becomes viable.

pete


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## Texas

Some cracking pictures there. I particularly liked the night scene of St Michelle, great atmosphere. Well done :lol:


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## nukeadmin

hi guys

well the big issue i face transposing the fully dynamic php/mysql/apache version on to cd is obviously that it cannot be done in its current format so going to need a LOT of work to mangle it somehow and allow it still to be searchable etc

I dont mind this, but then don't want masses of flak when it comes to charging for the end product  I know how some people get when asked to part with readies for services afforded by MHF !

let me think about ways of doing it once more and see what i can come up with


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## artona

Hi Dave

Have you never moaned about paying for something, I know my portrait customers moan all the time. Yesterday I delivered a portrait for the second time and they still moaned I had interrupted their sun bathing :lol: even though they had made the appointment time. 

Handing over money and moaning go hand in hand in the Great UK :lol: :lol: :lol: 


stew


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## ChrisNViv

*portable site database*

I'm completely with this idea. An evolving product in the shape of a downoadable database sounds like an eminently sensible plan. I can't quite focus on the business model but the idea of subscriber incentivisation for adding reviews, ratings or original contributions works for me. I'd also fork out to share the wider knowledge base. Another tenner a year wouldn't seem unreasonable. Would that pay for the cleanup requirements?
I wonder though about the teeth-sucking noises. I don't want a software product - I'll happy pay for a data file that I can pull into one of Mr Gates' products for the time being.
Anything is better than the rather fragmented situation that we have at the moment. We've just come back from Croatia and used the 2005 stellenplatz poi file on this site for the german leg. Using 3 adjacent poi's we found, respectively a carwash, someone's drive and a car-cleaning station, none of which offered sensible overnight cover (or was I oversensitive?).This is precisely the sort of thing that would be resolved with some peer review. I have been keen in the past to upload site reviews for the same reasons but would be inclined to take them elsewhere if there is no willingness to share the accrued knowledge in a more accessible way. I don't really live in the (digital)knowledge economy so can't comment on the validity of the concerns over asset mining but it seems to me that :
(a) there is a a real business opportunity
(b) a fairly visible set of contributors and consumers exist
(c) I want it and I want it now!


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## Superk

I got the Camping-car infos DVD but it doesn't play on my laptop DVD/CDRW - am I missing something?


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## nukeadmin

Is it a burned CD i.e. does it look different shades on the reverse ?

CDRW do suffer incompatibilities with some CD/Combo Drives

I have priced up Professionally Pressed CDs for this reason


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## autostratus

Superk said:


> I got the Camping-car infos DVD but it doesn't play on my laptop DVD/CDRW - am I missing something?


Can you get someone to try your disc in their laptop. At least you'll know whether it's a disc problem or a computer problem.


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## Wanderwagon3

*As topic*

Dave ....what a splendid post and delightful photos.

As you know I have posted several trip accounts and also many aires and campsite info ,including photos, in the Sites Lists.

However,not being an expert, I do not know how to post with photos and links to photos as you have done above.

I use Photoshop, and a Canon G5 digi camera and Windows XP 2

Could you send me by PM ( or indeed in open post) a step by step , in idiot proof language, the instructions on how to do the job. I think I have all the ingredients but need the recipe!. For instance what image size and resolution etc are required.

Will send you a PM later this week re various questions about your van.

TIA
Ken ..............with Wanderwagon3


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## Waleem

Probably a drive problem. My disc works in the laptop but not in my desktop, which doesnt even see it!! (But a LOT of discs play up in that drive!)


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## Superk

Thanks for the replies guys but it's not the drive as film type DVDs play normally as do CDs both data and music.


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## DABurleigh

Ken,

I don't do it the easiest way, but rather the devil-I-know, which is to use free software called JAlbum:
http://jalbum.net/

I then enter the details of my 50 Mbytes personal webspace provided by my ISP (most do but the details are all different, of course), point to the directory on my hard disc containing the photos and it does all the hard work. You then just give friends and family the web hyperlink to your webspace (again, details from your ISP).

An easier way to combine these two steps is to use something like Photobucket:
http://photobucket.com/

Other than that, to post images in MHF posts you need these already on the web, on your ISP webspace, or Photobucket or MHF itself. Just use the "Image" button above the white box in which you type an MHF reply.

Similarly you use the URL (world and chain) button to post a more digestible name of a link.

Dave


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## Velvettones

i know this thread appears to be drawing to a close as to the database download, but i couldn't help seeing it from a programmers perspective and so thought I'd throw my tuppence in. i do often go overly technical though so just yell if i overcomplicate this

i agree with the problems of distributing a members only database, but there are some simple (and slightly prohibitive) ways around this...

1. Databases can be encrypted (the same as password encryption on the net), I'm assuming that the database is currently on mysql for the purposes of the website but this could easily be converted to an encrypted and password protected Microsoft Access database (fairly universal).

2. This database could have a front end user interface written (using Microsoft Visual Basic or even html) that could unencrypt the data so that the user could access it, by controlling the front end MHF could prevent people bulk exporting the database

3. Make the front end need registering - when a user downloads and installs the database they must enter their MHF username and password, this will be verified across the internet the first time it's used. by doing this if a single user installs it on 500 computers, not only do we know they probably aren't genuine (we are a complete gadget family and only own approx 10 pc's of various descriptions) but we also know which user is it

4. regular checkups, either annually, or bianually (with a warning that it's coming), make the front end connect back to the internet to verify that it's still allowed to work and download updates, this way any real users have an up to date database and leeches lose the database.



I'm not suggesting that this would be foolproof (microsoft spend millions on piracy protection every year and still illegal copies of their software are on the market before the real thing), but anyone who's willing to go to the effort (and has the skill) to crack this system can very probably crack the online database as well



there is a downside to this as you would need to take a laptop away with you (not just a tomtom) but it is probably feasible to write a method of exporting to a tomtom/other format from this (for a select number of sites)

all of this should be possible on a windows mobile phone or a PDA, unfortunately whilst i use these devices on a daily basis i am yet to do any real programming for them, it would probably be too prohibitive for MHF to produce a cross platform program like this...


obviously this perspective is from a systems manager who also specialises in programming so i tend to look for this type of solution, it may not be the best, it's just what i would do :wink:


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## 88781

> Day 13
> Sitting by the canal having breakfast, feeding the ducks, watching the fishermen and others get their morning baguette, I recognised this was more like life as it should be, and our manic existence in full time employment back home was the artificial one. Nothing will change for several years yet, and we'll live with that, but it was a precious moment when you realised you had life in proper perspective. I'll use that moment over and over again as a sanity check in the months to come, I'm sure.


Brilliant write up Dave, and the above quote is an outlook upon life that Mandy and I share with you.


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## Velvettones

as for the DVD - depending on the age of the laptop/computer dvd drive it could well be the machine, dvd's come in a variety of different forms, +, -, single layer, double layer. not to mention different RW formats. new dvd drives are multi for the first ones, although the RW formats are still emerging today and so may not all be compatable. i'd be amazed if they were supplying these though as there would be no advantage

i'm afraid i can't remember the dates that multi readers first become the norm in laptops. i'd say anything since the turn of the millenium (if not definately by 02) should be though


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## quartet

*no blog photos*

Hi
Can't access your blog photos
Barry


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## iandsm

*MHF*

Great facility, you get a lot for £10.


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## DABurleigh

*Re: no blog photos*



Bessie560 said:


> Hi
> Can't access your blog photos
> Barry


Barry,

That's because the account is 2 years old and says "I'll refer to pictures by number in the temporary weblink above"

However, I have just uploaded reduced resolution ones into a different webspace. You have lost the pic number references, but should be able to correlate with the account:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/DABurleigh/Slides#

Regrettably, 2 years on and we still don't have offline access to all our campsite data, but nuke has aspirations.

Dave


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## Autoquest

Can I recommend these POIs for all your GPS units.

http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/


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