# Stationary engines



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We sometimes go to steam engine rallies, and we love to watch the stationary engines drive pumps or gennies etc.

I looked up some for sale and wasn't too sure just what to look out for in the way of generating enough power to run a house as a basic minimum, say around 2 to 4KW.

I'm not sure if that would be enough for modest needs, but the most power would be for a microwave heating would be via Ground source heat pump, cooking would be mainly gas, (hopefully via a small bio digester if I can find or build a small one).

I'm interested in saving both the planet and money, but as usual with a small budget.

I saw a 3kva (2kw?) one for £1000 yesterday, but it had just been sold, apparently the previous owner had been running it on old sump oil, strained to 10 microns and mix 4 to one with diesel, running non stop for over a year, with no problems, which seem to be a little cheaper than the grid to me.

Any advice or opinions very much wanted/needed.

Kev.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Your neighbours might not appreciate your efforts to save the planet (if you have any).

Friend living here in France summers has just brought over lots of machinery from his old mill in Leeds. Generators, welders, air con units, etc. But they are all 40 years old.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The ideas is to have no neighbours except the odd sheep cow or deer, hopefully.

Kev.


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## cater_racer (May 1, 2005)

I think the only ones that are truly worthwhile are the Combind Heat & power ones, where excess heat from power generation heats the house.

But if you reaaly want to save the planet take a leaf out of the Toyota Prius book, user the generator only when in periods of high consumption and charge a battery system for low consumption periods.

Then use the reserve in the battery via an inverter for the times when your only using low power devices.

I thought of converting my house lighting circuit to perminent battery supply, and charging via sunlight boosted by 240v.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

*stationary engines*

Hi Kev

Their is at this moment such a generator for sale in the Stationary Engine Magazine.

Its a LISTER CS 6.1hp Startomatic plant 3KVA 13amp single cylinder 600/800 rpm,It is apparently in good working order, it for sale at £1000.
Startamatic means that the engine will start on demand you do not have to run it all day.

I have a LISTER CD version also 3 KVA 0n a one and a half KVA load running for 8 hours it will only use about three litres of red diesel in that time.

You will not upset the the odd deer either at 800 rpm you just get a gentle thump thump from the exhaust.

The engine for sale is in Lancashire 01744604741

Take care Les :wink:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks, but that is the very engine I rang about, seems like a bargain to me, shame I missed it.

Kev.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

How about this one then?

stuff the grid, sells some back to them.

or maybe this one

Kev.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

What would you need in the way of parts to build one from scratch, if one was so inclined, I like a bit of a challenge, old engines come fairly cheap as do old electric motors, or is it too complicated for an old bodger like me.

Kev.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

Kev
Their is another startomatic set on ebay 6 days to run,item no 200400918746 I doubt if it remains at that price for long as sets in good condition are like rocking horse poo :lol: 

I sold the air cooled version a LISTER VA in 1987 that made £400 then, to make way for another project, if only I had a bigger shed :wink:

The Paxman engine will more than likely end up in a boat and they will need a 25 ton crane to move it,the volky will need a petrol tanker out side the shed door  

Les


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> most power would be for a microwave, heating would be via Ground source heat pump, cooking would be mainly gas, (hopefully via a small bio digester if I can find or build a small one).


Hi Kev

When I retired I decided that I would investigate windmills , heat pumps and any other way of getting energy for nothing in our house... nothing so far has proved to be viable for us ... so other than upgrading our windows, house insulation and improving the controls to our heating I am still looking for ways to find economical "free" energy.

So I have some questions for you :

Where is the power for the heat pump motor going to come from? I am told that In general it takes 1 kW of electricity to provide 4kW of heating from a heat pump. For a small house you would need a heat pump that could provide say a 12kw output so thats about 3kw going in. Also the starting load on an electrical heat pump is very high, 4-6 times the running load, so you will need a supply capable of providing this.

There are gas powered heat pumps, I understand that they work like an absorption fridge ... is that what you intend using? If so you will need a lot of Bio to power it.

Mike


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

*stationary engines*

To build your own you will need .

A decent size shed, a gantry with a chain hoist,with at least a ton lifting capacity (one flywheel on my CD weights 175 lbs the gross weight of the engine and alternator is around 1000lbs we are not talking cheap and nasty here :lol:

Unless you know someone who has a machine shop, you will need a decent size lathe / pedestal drill/metal band or chop saw/welder,the list goes on for ever,my present lathe, a Boxford i found under a pile of sack bags in a old barn,i had only gone to look at an old water pump.

My engine came out of the Lister factory in Dursley Glos in 1936, if its next owner looks after it like i have it will easily last another 70 years 

Have fun Les :wink:


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## haylingman (May 23, 2008)

*stationary engines*

If you are wiring up your house then you could use 12 volts right through with just an invertor were it is needed. Your motorhome will give you a good idea of what you can run off of 12 volts, water pumps, tv, lighting etc. Best of luck.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I wonder what a gathering of Fred Dibnahs are called? 

A 'steamer of Dibnahs' maybe?  :wink: 

Wish I had the patience and space for these sort of schemes.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

*engines*

Spacerunner.

I believe they are called.

Old codgers Bodgers and dodgers :lol: :lol:

Old dodgers refers to the fact that if anything goes wrong (and it does) you still have to be nifty one your feet :lol:

What better way to spend an evening, away from X Factor and the like than in the shed, perfect bliss 

Les :wink:

PS always always leave your overalls in the shed,other wise No coco :roll:


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> We sometimes go to steam engine rallies, and we love to watch the stationary engines drive pumps or gennies etc.
> 
> I looked up some for sale and wasn't too sure just what to look out for in the way of generating enough power to run a house as a basic minimum, say around 2 to 4KW.
> 
> ...


Kev,
The killer is the peak loads. At present, our house is a bit extreme since we cook by electricity so although our mean load is c. 0.8 Kw, the peak can be >10Kw
However from the description of the way you want to approach things, 4Kw would sound to be ample.
One way of dealing with the peaks would be to have a circuit that carries your "non essential" loads that could be tripped off when the load approaches the maximum. Also, you could put timers on fridges and freezers etc. so that they don't operate simultaneously.
One word of warning however, these small engines can be remarkably inefficient so its worth *trying* to get some figures although I would admit with the sort of engines you are considering, it's a very long shot.
The figures you need to compare are litres per Kw per hour. 
Very large ships engines are as low as 0.160 litres but I was shocked to discover when I owned a small boat for a while that the Volvo engine's figure was 100% greater.
Having said that, if the fuel is almost free ,efficiency (and you're not considering emissions :wink: )isn't going to be a big issue.


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Did some work on this sort of thing meself 4 years ago. Two comments:
1. 12v is good BUT long wiring runs will soon loose what you gain.
2. The only cost effective microgeneration I could see was hydr. You only need about 8ft fall and a flow of as little as 40 gallons a minute and you can do two average houses!

Keep us posted
Patrick


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

hi kev,
if you purchase a property with a stream or river on it then these people could be woth speaking to. unfortunately unlees you move up here they can't fit it.

simon


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

That Paxman 330 KVA job is about the size of some of the more moderate floats in the Shepton Mallet Carnival procession. Some were 1MW, many were 500 KVA. Awsome.

I have an old 3.5 KVA Petter lump sat in a small trailer. Ideal for waking up Caravan Club sites!

C.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

Give it a rub over with an oily rag Clive, pump the trailer tyres up and bring it to a show  

But even though it has probably been standing, not used for donkey's years 
a couple of swings on the handle and away she goes BRITISH made,still bl..dy noisy though :lol:


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## BJT (Oct 31, 2008)

Kev,
You are dipping your toes in some very muddy water. A small diesel set is OK for basic uses - lighting and emergencies. The cost of generating electricity to use for cooking etc is marginal unless there is no alternative.
LPG as direct heat source for heating, hot water and cooking may be a better option, especially if you have space for a bulk tank. You can also get LPG gennies, but their efficiency is not so good.
Do the calcs and have fun.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Phew, Spykal informed me just now that I'd had some more replies, I must have missed the notification email.


Some very astute peeps out there, I'll wade through your comments and try to do a bit more research.

Keep em coming though.

I'm not wanting to make the dwelling glow, we want to be low consumption, I'll try to list the sort of things we might want to run if that helps.



2 x LCD TVs, (not at the same time) maybe 12v there.

2 x laptops, probably inverters for those, but will look at 12v.

Lighting, should get by with LEDs most of the time, with maybe an inverter linked 230v for any serious need short term, although an old sealed beam unit I had in a non powered garage certainly turned night into day, but didn't last long, maybe something along those lines but less watts, poss, a garage lead light.

Microwave, an decent size inverter will power one if close enough to keep the cable size down.

Cooking could be by wood, coal, or gas or LPG, not sure of that as we don't yet have a plot.

Heating, first thing is to insulate as well as possible, keeps draughts at bay, then Wood from our forest (yeah right)

If I'm warm I take clothes off, if I'm cold I put them on, that saves loads of money and energy, My last house had a single electric fire in the front room, and a small halogen heater for the bathroom i rarely felt cold, even though I had no double glazing, I often considered putting in central heating and double glazing, but could never justify the costs involved I nearly bought some loft insulation once, but the whim passed, all my heat went out the roof doors and windows, well yeah of course it did, but it's was a very cold day when I turned it higher than it's lowest level, and it was the flame effect type of gas fire, so not exactly chucking heat out, but I wasn't cold very often, and I never saw steamed up windows, and colds were very rare.

I believe we are all using way to much to do too little nowadays and need to get back to a more sustainable way of life, and I don't mean environmentally either although the environment is helped by it.

Consider how many hours you have to work to put food on the table, gotta have it or you die.

Consider how many hours you have to work to buy each of the TVs you have but don't turn on

Consider how many hours you have to work to buy each upgrade to just about every appliance in your home, before the old one has packed up, and is still doing what it did when you bought it.

Consider how many hours you have to work to buy the gas, LPG, electricity that you need to run all this stuff.

Our intention is to step back from all this, but not to become hermits, we like our little luxuries, but an old car will get you where you're going just as well as a new one, the only difference is that your neighbours will think you've lost your job, so what, do we all really care so much about what others think, unfortunately yes most people do, and spend a fortune doing things to make other people think we're doing great.

I suppose all we want to do is just live out our later years with a little comfort but not opulence, be warm, be well fed, but most of all be well and happy, unfortunately I'm not sure where you buy this wellness and happiness from, maybe if we stop chasing after useless electrical gadgetry we might find one of them and in that find the other, and as you're well aware there's nothing quite like a bit of the other 
:lol: :lol: 


Kev.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

citroennut said:


> hi kev,
> if you purchase a property with a stream or river on it then these people could be woth speaking to. unfortunately unlees you move up here they can't fit it.
> 
> simon


thanks for that one Simon, if it comes off I'll by you a pint or three.

Kev.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Kev, I can get you an odd deer.
Mother in law :lol: 

Dave p


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