# Getting gas abroad, a solution?



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

Lots of chat in the past about refilling your gas bottle on the continent, one of the big problems was in general, a lot of British vans have small lockers, so the large refillable types wouldn't fit.

Gaslow now make a refillable bottle about the same size as a 6kg calor propane 492mm X 246mm. This looks an ideal solution and the price per bottle is good (£65). They also sell lots of other gas related bits and bobs to enable your system to be as simple or sophisticated as your budget allows.

The reason i tell you this is because i have this problem, my previous 'van i used a 11.5 kg refillable from autogas, but it wont fit the nuevo locker. We tour abroad alot especially when its cold and can quickly use 2 6kg calors.

I am toying with the idea of fitting 2 with a remote fill, contents gauge and manual changeover switch.

www.gaslow.co.uk

Pete.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

peejay said:


> Hi,
> The reason i tell you this is because i have this problem, my previous 'van i used a 11.5 kg refillable from autogas, but it wont fit the nuevo locker. We tour abroad alot especially when its cold and can quickly use 2 6kg calors.
> 
> I am toying with the idea of fitting 2 with a remote fill, contents gauge and manual changeover switch.
> ...


We have a problem with a locker which can just hold 2x6kg bottles and do find it difficult to manage in the spring particularly.

There has been some discussion on another forum which I expect you are familiar with. Do you know whether anyone is yet offering a supply anf fit service with these bottles and what the cost is or is likely to be.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Gillian, i would imagine any good m/h dealer could supply and fit the system, personally, the only part of fitting that i would like done profesionally is having the remote fill device set into the outside wall of the 'van and would prefer the supplying dealer or a/sleepers to do this because of warranty issues. The rest is just connecting each cylinder.

I have priced up the parts i need for a system with 2 bottles as follows;

6 kg bottle £65
Tandem 6 kg bottle £65
Remote fill device £50
Bottle connecting pipe £44
contents gauge £18
total £242 plus any dealer fitting costs and foreign fill adaptors.

You don't have to specify all these parts though, for instance, you could run with one calor and one refillable, then just use the calor until the other is topped up.

The only thing i have to establish is if only one contents gauge is required with 2 bottles in tandem, i think it should be ok as the gauge works (i think) on pressure, all will become clear when i check with gaslow.

pete.


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## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

*Gas*

Hi peejay and the rest of the gang. Really interested in this thread as I have been going down the same route with Gaslow. I am in touch with them by email (although it takes a few attempt to get through, keeps bouncing back) Jacquie (gaslow) sent me some details and included a PDF file of recent prices and a link to autogas refill stations. I have managed to download and print the stations in the UK but I am having trouble finding the same in Europe. I think the site might be down as I get "don't recognise URL" for Europe. Anybody interested let me know and I'll forward the info. Keep us informed as to what you come down on Pete. I have just been told that you can exchange British Calor (blue) bottles now in France (but not our orange propane) anyone know if this is true? Cheers, Jeffus. 8)


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi jeffus,

the brochure and the pricelist are easily downloaded from gaslow's website.

As for Autogas abroad, and, according to the silkroute club http://www.xor.org.uk/silkroute/equipment/lpgineurope.htm it's widely available except for Finland and Spain (none), and with limited quantities in Denmark, Greece, Switzerland and Norway. I,m sure someone somewhere could come up with a more difinitive list or link.

Can't see blue calors being exchangeable in France ever happening, but would be handy for some if they were.

Reference my query about the contents gauge, awaiting a reply from a 'techie' at gaslow.

pete


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## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the info and link Pete, much appreciated. Won't be any good to me if I can't fill up in Spain. My big problem here is it's no good getting refillable bottles if THEY don't work in Europe either. might as well stick with swopables and buy a bottle in the relevant country. Only trouble with that is carrying all the different bottles around.

The reason for the query on Calor bottles is we had a couple of MH friends round last weekend and the weekend prior to that they were telling us they exchanged a Calor bottle for a French camping gas albiet a 2.5kg version. They were in the Mont St. Michel area of Brittany. I'll have to get in touch with them and see if I understood correctly. Cheers again peejay keep us up to speed. Jeffus. 8)


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

jeffus,

Although i have no touring experience of Spain yet, i have heard that it is possible to have bottles refilled at some Repsol depots and could possibly solve your problem. Perhaps another forum member has more info?

pete.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Pee Jay

My refillable is fixed inside the gas locker with good brackets and ratchet straps, the filler pipe is mounted on a bracket and fixed to the inside wall of the gas locker immediately behind the locker door, open door and refill. This way all equipment can be removed and no filler points in the outside panels of the M/H when you decide to sell.

Ken S


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

Hi there, 
Like Ken, I too have a non-permanent filler arrangement inside my gas locker door which enables rapid filling of my refillable while at the same time has involved no hole cutting of the van body. I have had no trouble getting this refilled in any country.

Spain has, until recently, been the one difficult country but there was a law change in 2003 which opened up the way for LPG to be marketed to all users (previously just taxi's etc). The oil companies have started opening up LPG stations but obviously this will take time. One of the largest, Repsol, has a map on their website. Stations as yet tend to be in large towns - Granada, Cordoba and the like. http://www.repsol.com/eng/productos...enta/mapaptosventa.asp?PaginaID=1876&Nivel=11 and I recall that one of the others also has a map as I took a copy on my last trip to Spain (can't find it at the Mo.).

The outlay on a refillable is painful but I reckon to save about £50 a year on gas cost. Added to this is the peace of mind of being able to get gas anywhere (except for a little Spanish inconvenience) when I want it for the sake of a 5 minute roadside halt.

Steve


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

*Gas abroad (and home!)*

Could I suggest an alternative which I have had on two 'vans now.
Have a gas tank fitted (usually under the floor somewhere) with a remote filling position (usually in the skirt) and a remote level indicator. This has the advantage of giving you a bigger gas capacity bought at a lower price and can be refilled in most countries. It also releases your gas locker for other storage use. 
Spain is the only country in Europe where filling is dodgy at the moment but with the increasing number of LPG fuelled cars I feel it will not be long before they come into line. In any case one can fill in either France or Portugal and if you want belt and braces (I do) Provide for connection of a GAZ cylinder.
If you are interested I can recommend: www.mthautogas.co.uk They are located near Gloucester. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Lots of good info coming back here and much appreciated,

BillD, that is another solution, but sometimes theres not enough space under the van for fitment of a tank, i'm also looking into the feasibility and cost of this as well (emailed autogas a while back, but alas no reply yet). Could you give any idea of fitment costs that you've encountered?

KenS, the idea of a bracket within the compartment for the remote filler makes sense, no hole drilling, like it, but space is VERY tight in my locker, but will look into it (the locker that is).

pete.


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

Peejay - the chap at MTH had a compact filler arrangement, made up to my specification, that doesn't extend beyond the diameter of the cylinder. He said that he was going to have some more made up but I don't know if that transpired. If you are looking for a compact solution for a tight space, I could take a piccy over the next day or two (if the sun shines) and e-mail it to you so that you could see if the arrangement would be any good to you..

I agree that the best solution is an underslung tank and I would have gone for that myself but as is becoming prevalent now, my van has a low-profile AL-KO chassis and a tank just would not go under. I think that even Hymers cannot now be fitted with an underslung tank as they have a low-pro double floor and owners have to opt for two refillable bottles - see this entry from Peter Hambilton's site http://www.friendlyhippo.co.uk/hymerdirect/accessories.html

Steve


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Pete

I would heartily recommend a fixed tank, I'm on the third van I've had one on 

I have always purchased the kit and fitted mine myself (I do hold accreditation) MTH equipment is good and competitively priced, they charge in the region of £200 for fitting, the prices shown on the web site include fitting 

If you visit a show that they are exhibiting at they have an at the show fitting service.

John.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Steve

My van, Euramobil 810 has an Alko chassis with double floor and I have fitted a 55 litre tank. The lowest point of the tank is higher than both the exhaust system and the spare wheel.

John.


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

If you have access to this months Caravan Club magazine (P47), you will see that there are two ways to build a double floor onto one of their chassis. A 55 litre tank under a 'low-profile' AL-KO chassis would deliver a firework show along the road to impress anybody - less than 9 inches ground clearance on my Hobby , for example. No doubt your Eura twin floor is built on the alternative chassis to that or a Hymer.

Steve


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## 91727 (May 1, 2005)

Interested to read all this. I have two 25 litre tanks fitted to my Hobby 750, the lowest points of which sit above the chassis rails, so no chance of the firework display described above!

I have travelled throughout Europe and, with the exception of Spain as previously mentioned, had no problems obtaining gas, even in Greece although it is a bit thin on the ground there.

I would highly recommend this method of Gas supply. My tanks were fitted by Autotech in Ripley, Derbyshire www.autotech-lpg.com which cost a lot less than the 'specialist' motorhome suppliers.


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

All good stuff and just demonstrates how complex this all can be. Earlier Hobby 750's had a single floor chassis and recent one's have a double. There is no easy answer to anything is there! 
Every gas installer that I showed my twin floor 650 to just laughed and said "no way".

Steve


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## 91727 (May 1, 2005)

For reference, my hobby is the recent double floor version. Don't know if it will work with the earlier single floor one although I suspect the ground clearance should be better with this?


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

That's interesting. What is the diameter of your tanks please? 

I need tanks less than 8" in diameter and everywhere I went, I was told - 'no dice'.

I would much prefer to install my tanks below.

Thanks,
Steve


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

Further to the above - I phoned Autotech up and found them to be very amenable and they suggested that although their smallest tank would hang below my low-pro chassis rails, they should be able to come up with an underslung solution that fits within the regulations of 8" ground clearance. Nice chap to talk to!

They are the first company I have spoken to who seem to be prepared to look for a solution rather than just supply what they have, so must be worth a call from anybody with a low-pro who wants a tank fitting.

Thanks ceegeepee, i'll be popping in to see them next time i'm over there. That's the beauty of this forum, isn't it!

Steve


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## 91727 (May 1, 2005)

Glad to be of assistance. Feel free to come and have a look at the job they have done on mine if you are in the area. I am in Derby about 6 miles from Autotechs premises in Ripley.

Drop me a PM and I'll give you my contact details if required


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## 91817 (May 1, 2005)

*LPG Bottles*

Be careful with any type of bottle that is not fitted with a fill stop and PRV (pressure relief Valve).
Any bottle that is marked in KG and not litres needs to be weighed when filling whether it is PED or Pi marked.

*How do you know when the bottle is 80% full?* 
With the lightweight bottles you can see the gas, but when filling it is sloshing about and is difficult to gauge when to stop filling.
A 20% vapour space is a legal requirement to allow for expansion of the gas.

What happens when you get liquid LPG (that expands in the air) coming through your regulator and you try to light your hob?
Lpg expands with heat and needs a vapour space in the top of the tank or bottle to allow for this. If liquid is released from the bottle and ignited - the consequences could be disastrous!

For light weight bottles treat them like a crash helmet once dropped never use again!!

Finally, always get a Certificate from the bottle supplier.

The specifically designed steel refillable cylinders like the ones fitted by Autogas 2000 (www.autogas.co.uk) and Hambilton engineering have all the correct valves to conform to European and British regulations including an 80% fill stop and with the use of adapter can be used throughout the continent.


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## 91105 (May 1, 2005)

Hi all, 

From the thread I just scanned through, it sounded as though someone mentioned that you could run other things from your LPG tank other than just the engine? Is there any way I can do that!? 

Surley not... :lol: 

Also.... does anyone know if there are different kinds of LPG filling nosels in France, Spain or Portugal compared to the ones we have here..?

Fanks!


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## 91817 (May 1, 2005)

If you are using LPG to run your engine then the tank will most likely be a liquid take-off tank. This is very different from a vapour take-off tank use for cooking and heating. 
LPG filler adapters are available form Autogas 2000 Ltd (www.autogas.co.uk)


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

As refillable gas bottles seem to be getting popular the search for LPG filling stations will intensify. They are plentiful in France but can be few and far between in other areas.

There are three types of connectors on LPG filling guns at garages in Europe.

These are: Bayonet (Sometimes known as Dutch Bayonet), Clawgun and Acme Thread.

The following is a list of countries and the guns most likely found in those countries.

France: Clawgun

Italy: Clawgun (LPG very limited in Southern Italy)

Belgium: Acme or Dutch Bayonet

Holland: Dutch bayonet

Denmark: Could be Clawgun, Dutch Baayonet or Acme

Eire: Acme.

UK: dutch Bayonet.

Greece: Clawgun

Turkey: Clawgun

Portugal: Clawgun

Poland: LPG is available from the larger petrol stations on the main roads

Slovenia: Very few petrol stations sell LPG.

Sweden: LPG is only sold at a few (45) petrol stations mainly in central/southern Sweden. The "M" can provide a list.

Switzerland: Very few (8) petrol stations selling LPG. A list is available from TCS

Finland: LPG is not available.

Norway: very few stations sell LPG a list is available from NAF.

Spain: Very few gas outlets and Spanish authorities do not allow private individuals to fill their vehicles with LPG ( This is in the process of changing) http://www.repsol.com/eng

Germany: Very few outlets. A map and list of 100 fuel stations selling LPG in the west and south of Germany may be obtained from the ADAC.

Austria: Very few outlets. The OeAMTC publishes a list of LPG selling points.

For filling points in the UK see http://www.lpga.co.uk/england_stations.htm

Adaptors can be obtained to convert from the Bayonet type to Clawgun or Acme.The English/Dutch Bayonet has an internal thread in which the adaptors are screwed. It is important that the sealing face of the Bayonet fitting is not damaged and the sealing washer is in good condition. Useful contacts in UK, MTH Auto Gas http://www.mthautogas.co.uk/
Autogas 2000 Ltd, Tel. 01845 523 213,

For info on French GPL (LPG)stations, HTTP://www.stations.gpl.online.fr
or Comite Francais du Butane et du Propane Tel. 0033 141 97 02 89. fax 0033 141 97 02 89

For an LPG guide Italy-Europe with legend in English there is a choice of three guides,Italy Centre-North, Italy Centre South,both include a map of Italy 1:500,000 scale with towns highlighted where filling stations exist. The 3rd Guide LPG Guide Italy-Europe includes addresses of 7430 stations in 26 countries. 2000 prices for each guide was € 5.11 with discounts if you bought two or three.

Further details www.egm.it/cartine or Fax 0039 0575 911 161, e-mail [email protected]

Hope this is useful to those interested in refillable bottles.


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## 91105 (May 1, 2005)

Ach sorry, does that indicate that I'm guilty of thread-rot!?

My apologies, but the information was extreemly useful, so I thank yee for that.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

That factual input from Ephesus (Don is easier to spell!) should be lifted and put into the 'Product Reviews', LPG/Gas for easy access.

It's bound to come up again


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## 88742 (May 9, 2005)

Sod's law, 

I carry one Calor Propane and one 'local' Butane, will be going to france later this Month and neither will have enough for the trip.

Just have to swap one early :roll:


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

autostratus said:


> That factual input from Ephesus (Don is easier to spell!) should be lifted and put into the 'Product Reviews', LPG/Gas for easy access.
> 
> It's bound to come up again


Your wish etc etc, good idea tis done, should appear when Dave has waved his magic wand


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

Tomtom GPS users will find POI overlays for their maps for GB and France LPG refill stations from www.poihandler.com downloadable through POIEdit software.

Topmtom users will find literally hundreds of European overlays from this source.

Steve


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## 92387 (May 1, 2005)

*Gaslow bottles*

I have recently had gaslow bottles installed, and what can i say no regrets. The gaslow range is provided by mobile installers from www.leisuregasservices.co.uk, who came to my house as they offer a mobile service and fitted it all as they are qualified. They made sure there were no leaks, overviewed my current system as a couple of the hoses needed replacing. It seems as they use stainless steel hoses they are guarenteed for 25 years and every bottle for 15.

I'm sure as any user will say this system is ideal for the UK and Europe, never having to look for new bottles then trying in the local lingo to buy new ones, take out liscences in other countrys, sure your all aware!

The installation took around an hour and a half, and like i said they came to my house but they are very flexible in where they meet.

I used to pay £12 for calor and now on average i pay £4.50!great. Higly reccomend it to anyone especially those who travel into Europe.


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## MOTORHOMER (May 9, 2005)

peejay said:


> Hi Gillian, i would imagine any good m/h dealer could supply and fit the system, personally, the only part of fitting that i would like done profesionally is having the remote fill device set into the outside wall of the 'van and would prefer the supplying dealer or a/sleepers to do this because of warranty issues. The rest is just connecting each cylinder.
> 
> I have priced up the parts i need for a system with 2 bottles as follows;
> 
> ...


hello Pete

We asked at the Shepton Mallet Show about these & the contents gage & were told that the contents gage although coming soon was not available yet. Unless its just arrived of course.

Motorhomer


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

Brownhills are selling complete DIY Kits of 2x11kg bottles and all fittings inc remote fill etc for £250.
the 2x 6kg kit is about £240 :lol: :lol:


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## 92387 (May 1, 2005)

Yes i had seen that, all well and good though if your competent to play with gas and happy to drill a hole in the side of your motor vehicle, the reason why I opted for the services of Leisure gas services who tested everything for me aswell(free of charge)


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