# Towing with a Motorhome



## 88929 (May 10, 2005)

Hi there you all,

Just a question regarding towing with a motorhome. I have seen many motorhomes towing small cars behind them and wondered if members thought this may be a good idea for getting about or otherwise?

I recently went on holiday in Scotland and found it very frustrating on occasions, when the road was not as wide as one would expect and constantly being forced into the gutter by very large wagons with hundreds of logs on board. 

It was felt by my wife and I, that a smaller vehicle would have been beneficial, not only because of the obvious advantage of "smaller is easer to manoeuver", but also you have much more choice when it comes to parking and of course lower fuel costs.

Have other members had thoughts about this and if so, what conclusions did you come to?


"Take care out there"


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## zaskar (Jun 6, 2005)

welshman said:


> Have other members had thoughts about this and if so, what conclusions did you come to?
> 
> Thought about it and decided to go for a motorbike on the back instead. We also love Scotland with it's single track roads and like doing them in our R.V. Trouble is, with a car on the back it is virtually impossible to reverse if needed. i've read loads of stories in our RV club magazine about what a pain it is to have to unhook the car to be able to reverse out of trouble.
> Also bear this in mind. In Spain it is now illegal to tow a car behind anything other than a dedicated tow truck - even with an automatic braking system fitted. i think I'm right in saying that even if France hasn't made it illegal yet, they are soon to do so and it is my opinion that this country wont be far behind them.


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## Maverick (May 9, 2005)

Felt the same a while back and on longer trips we tow a Smart car on a Bantam Trailer. Piece of cake, never regretted it.


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## 89213 (May 16, 2005)

A couple of thoughts on this one, firstly I live up here and I'm forever cursing these log lorries, and they tend to travel in 3s too. The other point is, if you can't reverse a trailer properly then you shouldn't be pulling one. I don't particularly want to upset anybody, but I often have to reverse when I'm towing my boat, and if I couldn't do it I would be in the poop. If your trailer is narrower than your van, then get some of those extended marker lights fitted so you can see it, most important. learn to reverse using your mirrors, looking over your shoulder is the wrong way to do it.
John


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## Maverick (May 9, 2005)

Agree that if you can't reverse a trailer you shouldn't tow one. However, a combination of looking back and using mirrors should be adopted. You cannot rely on mirrors alone. Must admit I enjoy backing the trailer into some 'impossible' places, much to the annoyance of onlookers when I get it right.

Before you all start shouting, I have had the odd disaster but with practice it does get easier.


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## Mat7 (May 15, 2005)

And don't forget if you are a new(ish) driver you may not have a trailer entitlement on your licence!! this is another test if you do not have it. 

:roll: :roll: 8O


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## 88742 (May 9, 2005)

Giok wrote...............



> learn to reverse using your mirrors, looking over your shoulder is the wrong way to do it.


Sorry have to disagree, I used to reverse aircraft (Double pivot) into bays in the hanger, always looked over my shoulder and could put the nosewheel on a sixpence.

Ian


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## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

It is not possible to reverse a car being towed on an "A" frame, as the castor angle will try to turn the wheels onto lock as soon as you try to push it backwards. You may manage a few metres, then it all ends in disaster.
As it only takes about 30 seconds to disconnect the tow car from the MH, I have never found this to be a problem. 
You just need to think in advance and try not to get in a reversing situation.
Colin


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## Braesman (May 9, 2005)

Having learned to reverse on a grey Fergie round about age ten, I can do it better looking over my shoulder (no wing mirrors on an old Fergie), but that's not much use in the Hymer, so I've had to adapt to using the mirrors when towing the Ka behind.
Worst thing I ever tried was reversing a tractor towing a forage harvester with a trailer on behind it. All my natural instincts were wrong and I never did master the combination.
I once came across two caravans met head-on on a single track road on the West Coast. Neither driver had any idea of how to reverse his outfit. We might still have been there but I persuaded one of them to let me reverse his van back into a passing place. I think all towers should have to pass a reversing test before being allowed on the road.


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

I have a Heavy Goods Vehicle and Public Service Vehicle driving licences. When I took both driving tests, which is some time ago, I was taught to reverse using both outer mirrors, and on the tests had to reverse the vehicles to overhang a yellow painted square to overshoot meant you failed your test - I passed first time  . I was told not to combine looking over the shoulder with outer mirrors when reversing because it could cause confusion and I would fail my test.

When I was a tugger of a 24ft caravan :roll: I could reverse the caravan into any park on campsites. Then I would sit back and watch the men [sorry :wink: ] unhitch their caravans and to push on site 

I would and have suggested that anyone thinking of driving a larger vehicle or towing a large trailer take a lesson at a commercial vehicle driving school. You don't have to take a test and will be amazed at the difference in your driving habits and could reduce your insurance premium.


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

bsb2000 said:


> Giok wrote...............
> 
> Sorry have to disagree, I used to reverse aircraft (Double pivot) into bays in the hanger, always looked over my shoulder and could put the nosewheel on a sixpence.
> 
> Ian


It is much easier to manoeuvre a large vehicle with a much smaller one.

But try and do this the other way around?

I wonder how good the pilot would have been at manoeuvring your vehicle with his aircraft. Particularly in a confined area :lol:

Indeed, was this not the very reason that you were parking the aircraft, and not the pilot?

Reversing a motorhome with a car on A-Frame is much the same. Quite hard, if not impossible at times.

However, hook that same car up on a A_frame to the FRONT of the motorhome, and you may find it's actually quite easy to move (push) the motorhome around with the car?

In the same way, the old style "wagon and drag" trucks, which used A frames on the trailer, used to have a hitch on the front of the wagon too. As it was far easier to drop the trailer and turn the truck around and push it in, than it was to try and reverse it in.. particularly with limited space around.

To reverse a car on a A frame may be possible at times. But if it is stuck behind wacking great big motorhome (Like an A class or RV), then the RV needs space to manoeuvre also. ie, to move the car a few inches one way at the back, may mean moving the front end of the Motorhome/RV several feet at the front.

Now, on a single track road in Bonny scotland, the road just isn't going to wide enough to allow the manoeuvre, however possible it might or might not be in theory, if the space around it isn't big enough.. you are stuffed. Simple?


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## 88742 (May 9, 2005)

Wilecoyote wrote................



> Indeed, was this not the very reason that you were parking the aircraft, and not the pilot?


That would be a sight to see.....................................in a hanger 8O 8O 8O

Never found a road trailer that would suffer from 'wing sweep' like a delta aircraft, but I digress.

Driven plenty of combinations the other way round and would agree that a small trailer can be a pig to reverse.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

> I once came across two caravans met head-on on a single track road on the West Coast. Neither driver had any idea of how to reverse his outfit. We might still have been there but I persuaded one of them to let me reverse his van back into a passing place. I think all towers should have to pass a reversing test before being allowed on the road.


More worrying than that, going by my experience in piloting my panel van down some narrow lanes to escape the Glastonbury gridlock on Monday, is that some car drivers seem incapable of reversing just their car! After trying to allow a vehicle coming the other way to pass me, despite my son hanging out of the passenger window relaying the proximity of solid objects on my nearside, and me doing similarly with the vehicle trying to avoid scraping my offside, that driver and I decided discretion would win that day and I tried to reverse to a wider spot, as there was more traffic coming the other way than the sole vehicle behind us. Engaging reverse gear I waited for the person behind to reverse. And waited. The driver to my offside reversed enough so I could open my door and I walked back to explain the predicament, to be confronted with windows hurriedly being closed, doors locked and a lady who, in response to my pleas for her to reverse, merely shook her head repeatedly and stared straight ahead, refusing eye contact.

Such tactics were clearly effective, because there was nothing else for it but for the line of cars coming the other way all to reverse, some a considerable distance as passing places only allowed two cars at most.

I couldn't figure it out. Even asked my son if I looked like an ogre or a rapist.

Dave
PS Come to think of it, he just laughed but I don't recall him saying "no" :-(


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

bsb2000 said:


> Wilecoyote wrote................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "trailer". The comments made above were about cars on A-Frames.

Reversing a trailer is a breeze. Reversing a car on an A-Frame is not.

Pushing an aircraft in on a double pivoted A-Frame is not the same. The wheels on the bogie will be FIXED in a straight line, and do NOT move from side to side. It is indeed the A-Frame itself that moves to steer the bogie.

In a situation like that, the tow (or push) vehicle can easily move the a-frame and its load around. If you were at a standstill, and pushed the front of the A-Frame to one side or the other, one wheel on the bogie will roll forward, whilst the other would roll in a backwards direction.

However, with a CAR on an A-Frame, the front wheels are NOT fixed in a straight line. They can move 100% independently (as a pair) in any direction at anytime? You can NOT move the A frame from side to side when at a standstill in this situation. The A-Frame moves on the tow ball, not on the bogie.

So yes an A-framed car is double pivoted, but the second part of the pivot is not easily controlled. Try resting you hands on the bonnet of your car, and pushing it around the block backwards without touching the steering wheel, and you will see what I mean 

This gets better still, because the steer wheels of the car will often follow the contour of the road, or if they hit a stone or obstruction may well move in the wrong direction without warning. (Ever clipped a kerb and had your steering wheel trying to jump out your hands)

Therefore when reversing a A-Framed car, the very same can happen. A small dip or pothole, a stone or whatever in the way of the cars wheels, can without warning turn the steer wheels of the car. You have no control over that part at all.... Least not unless the misses runs round the back and jumps in the car to steer it 

The forces imposed from the vehicle pushing it also take a dramatic effect too. When you back planes in, you would use such forces to turn the A-Framed bogie in the direction you desire. Doing this on a A-Framed car has a different effect. And the steer wheels may well turn in the wrong direction completely.

Hence the comment above somewhere about "the castor effect". It is very easy indeed to end up "crabbing" the vehicle because of this.

It is however not impossible to reverse one though. But do remember that the primary method of steer on the A-framed car is at the towball. Exerting the needed sideways force in such a setup, may well mean the tow (push) vehicle needs to move around 45' or more to one side or the other. 45' on a 25ft A class may mean 6 - 10 ft at the front at the very least. On an RV it may be 20ft or more.

Therefore if you are on a 16ft wide road (or less), it just don't happen :lol:

The entire affair also becomes more complicated (fun) by the fact that an A-Framed car is very close coupled to the back of the tow vehicle. The closer the tow vehicle is coupled, the more room the tow vehicle will need manoeuvre when reversing it.

And the closer it is, the less you can see it. In fact you can't usually see an A-Framed car at all in your mirrors, or very little of it. Most who tow like this use a rear mounted camera to keep an eye on it 

Pure fun to say the least :lol:

Given that you can un hook an A-Framed car in seconds.. it would just be easier to run round back and move it as a separate unit 

And do remember, that a trailer is designed to be towed, and therefore constructed accordingly.

A car was designed to reverse using the steering wheel and a driver.. not to be pushed around by a wacking great big RV. Exerting too much sideways pressure when reversing a car in this manner, may well end in tears.

Cheers


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

*rreversing motor home & trailer*

Well said Giok & co
i learned to revers on grey fergie with a trailer with the wheels right at the back - then they moved me onto a trailer with a pair of swivel wheels at the front (for laughs) Both handle differently

We then bought a caravan and started rallying.
At some of the rallies they had test when you arrived
1 was to drive forwards and stop with the nose wheel over a square
2 was to reverse into a garage made of ropes laid on the floor - so no damage was incured should you miss

These 'tests' have stood us in good stead over the years

If you intend to tow a car or any sort of trailer (assuming you license is in order) and you are unable to carry out simple manouvers.
Then you should invest in one of the Caravan Clubs courses in caravan manouvering


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

*Re: rreversing motor home & trailer*



PamNPete said:


> If you intend to tow a car or any sort of trailer (assuming you license is in order) and you are unable to carry out simple manouvers.
> Then you should invest in one of the Caravan Clubs courses in caravan manouvering


See my previous thread.

Reversing an A-Framed car is nothing like reversing a trailer?

Just for the record, I have spent 20 years+ in the haulage Industry. Most (but not all) as a HGV1 driver. Some of that time was also spent within the Heavy Haulage sector (STGO Cat 1,2 & some 3)

For those that might not understand this, Cat 1 are pretty much normal trucks operating under the normal construction regs. usually used for oversized rather than heavy loads.

Cat 2 & 3 on the other hand, Require a minimum of six axles with max axle weights on twin tyres of errr, 12.5t & 16.5 t (IIRC) Running at cat 2, 80t must have at least seven axles IIRC. (gets a bit technical)

Anyway the point being, during that period, I moved heavy and large loads, many of which were of course under Police escort (Police no longer provide escorts now)?.

I have moved loads into spaces which you wouldn't believe, and round corners you would think impossible. Be it just using artic methods, or with the help of a rear steersman?

I am not perfect though, far from it. I make mistakes all the time. But I love the challenge of anything "big" or "heavy" 

Please don't think I am boasting, I am not. But with all my experiences and skills, I would never make any attempt to reverse an A-framed car behind a motorhome more than a few feet.

It is indeed quite possible to do, but under many "normal" road conditions it would be quite hard work. For me, as a professional driver, it would be far safer to move the car and motorhome as two seperate units than try and "be clever" doing it as one.

If that makes me a crap driver in need of a Caravan Club course, then so beit? I raise my hand in shame. 8O

Actually, a CC course might be fun, I might try it 

Cheers


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

Hi Reversing with an A Frame should never be done, it puts all the loads in the wrong places and could possibly do damage to the car.

Eddie.

ps, used A Frames for 20 odd years at work.


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