# EZA Li-ion battery packs



## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi All
I was just getting a quote for a new Pilote yesterday and the salesman wanted me to have the above system Lithium-fer phosphate 130A/hr. Apparently it holds the charge of 4 or 5 lead acid batteries with a very fast charge time. On reflection if it is 130 a/hr it doesn't even replace 2 normal batteries. 
System is very expensive and I suppose it may work well with solar panels but do any of you know anything or have any experience ?


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

They are hugely expensive so won't catch until the prices are reasonable. Saw some in Roadpro and they tried to get me to buy last year, over £2000 for a battery, er no thanks.


You are better off with top notch heavy duty traction batteries at a fraction of the price, depending on physical sizes etc, we had x2 Rolls Surrette 6 volt batteries and they were brilliant.


Paul.


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## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

They claim full recharge in 1.75 hours with a 130 A/hr alternator. Is 130A/hr standard for a Fiat 130 and how fast does the engine have to be going to achieve this?. The van roof has integral solar panels 400w . How does one convert from Watts to A/hr?
Thanks Coppo I tend to agree but would like to know more.
Jim


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

W=VxA

Turn them around however you want to using that. You know two of the values.


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

if the batteries you are referring to are Lithium-fer phosphate then they are LiFe not Li-ion, we started using them years ago in the radio controlled world, they will charge and discharge extremely quickly if required and are also far lighter than lead acid. they are more like a safe version of a LiPo battery than lead acid, can be molded into shape etc and have a 3.3 volt cell. within RC they have been (some years ago) superseded by LiPo batteries now, which perform far better again but have a tendency to burst into flames and need to be charged and discharged appropriately.

unfortunately i'm not really familiar with their usage in motorhomes.

Lee


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Why spend silly money on such things? Unless they take up less space, less weight and perform better there is no reason to even look at them IMO.

You may well find this extremely well written article informative - I did and consider that the advice given in it is accurate and unbiased - the author does NOT sell batteries.......

Battery Technology

Reading that will hopefully help you make up your own mind, it did with me.....

Dave


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## grandadbaza (Jan 3, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Why spend silly money on such things? Unless they take up less space, less weight and perform better there is no reason to even look at them IMO.
> 
> You may well find this extremely well written article informative - I did and consider that the advice given in it is accurate and unbiased - the author does NOT sell batteries.......
> 
> ...


Very interesting read


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## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

Mmmm very interesting, thanks all
The advertising blurb I have calls their battery both lithium-ion and lithium-fer- phosphate (in French). The battery technology article is very interesting.
Jim


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Penquin said:


> Why spend silly money on such things? Unless they take up less space, less weight and perform better there is no reason to even look at them IMO.
> 
> You may well find this extremely well written article informative - I did and consider that the advice given in it is accurate and unbiased - the author does NOT sell batteries.......
> 
> ...


He seems to know what he is talking about although at one point in his article(which I think has now been changed) he was rubbishing solar panels and pushing generators which I found surprising.

For serious motorhoming, longterming or fulltiming, as we were for 2 years, 6 volt is the way to go in my opinion. Wonderful batteries.
You just need to have the height to fit them as they are high batteries.

Paul.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

agree Paul. he makes a lot of sense though and it would be VERY easy for a slick salesman to convince many of us of the need for a super duper go faster battery to improve everything in sight..... after all we all want the best with our MH don't we ? And if he is sufficiently slick he will rapidly make sure that we go for what he wants to sell as it gets him the most profit or commission......

But, that of course, is what salespersons (don't want to be too sexist) depend upon - they need to make their livelihood too......

Dave (cynical is my middle name when it comes to buying things as I HATE shopping in all it's forms)


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## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks chaps I am now convinced not to go for EZA.
you talk of using six volt batteries and I assume this is on the basis of using two (6x2=12). Can you explain why this is better than using 2x12 volts (2x12=12) ? 
Jim
p.s. I have just renewed my sub £12.5, quote for EZa Euros 3110 !


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JIMY said:


> Thanks chaps I am now convinced not to go for EZA.
> you talk of using six volt batteries and I assume this is on the basis of using two (6x2=12). Can you explain why this is better than using 2x12 volts (2x12=12) ?
> Jim
> p.s. I have just renewed my sub £12.5, quote for EZa Euros 3110 !


It is because of the type of batteries - they are traction batteries as used in golf carts and other electrically propelled vehicles and they are only produced in 6v format. Peter(Listerdiesel) would be able to explain in more detail why they are well-suited to MH usage.

I have considered using them too, but rejected the idea because they tend to be too tall for standard battery boxes, so would need re-locating, thus necessitating extension of cabling for electrics, and my Sterling B2B which has sensor wiring which is critical in length if I remember correctly.

Geoff


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## Hymercamper (Nov 21, 2016)

By the way I have an Eza. it is great! the charge rate i am getting on it when my eza is say 90%full is about 50 to 55A from my Ducato's 90A alternator with the engine idling. The alternator copes with no problems but the best charge rate I have seen is 65A for a short time (again at idle because my meter is at the back of the van) when the Eza was down to about 22% after 3 days of winter wild camping in Scotland and lots of toast and espresso's being made. It does charge really quicky and it has a built in mppt controller that allows you to wiire up to 400watts of solar directly in. I only have space for 180watts of solar and anyway in the winter it is the alternator charging that is most use as a days worth or solar charging would only take 10mins at idle with the engine charging it. If you are a heavy wild camper then the difference in having an eza is well worth it in my opinion.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Hymercamper said:


> By the way I have an Eza. it is great! the charge rate i am getting on it when my eza is say 90%full is about 50 to 55A from my Ducato's 90A alternator with the engine idling. The alternator copes with no problems but the best charge rate I have seen is 65A for a short time (again at idle because my meter is at the back of the van) when the Eza was down to about 22% after 3 days of winter wild camping in Scotland and lots of toast and espresso's being made. It does charge really quicky and it has a built in mppt controller that allows you to wiire up to 400watts of solar directly in. I only have space for 180watts of solar and anyway in the winter it is the alternator charging that is most use as a days worth or solar charging would only take 10mins at idle with the engine charging it. If you are a heavy wild camper then the difference in having an eza is well worth it in my opinion.


You wouldn't have an association with 'eza' would you ?

Strange first post about a six month old thread :wink2:

tony


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

High capacity batteries tend to be 6V as in 12V format they would become too unwieldy to move.

Our are 225AH 6V AGM in the Mercedes, not traction, but we don't anticipate needing the depth of discharge that traction batteries will give, although their (traction) recharging regime industrially is rather more robust than in motorhomes, and includes a boost charge that gasses the batteries and stirs the electrolyte. 

Regarding Watts and AH:

Watts is power used, calculated by multiplying the volts by the current, V X A. 12V at 20A is 240W

Note that in AC power terms, Watts = (V X A) X pf (Power Factor)

AH is a capacity figure which is Ampere-Hours, so 20A taken out of a battery continuously for 5 hours would be 100AH.

Note that the AH capacity of a battery is expressed over a fixed time, 20 hours for most Lead-Acid batteries. If you discharge at a rate that is greater than the 20 hour rate, the available capacity reduces. So for a 10 hour discharge rate the available capacity could be 30% less than the 20 hour rate.

Peter


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## holeshole (Mar 20, 2010)

You beat me to it Peter!

As a retired engineer (and as I am sure many will say a boring pedant) who during the course of his education was forced to work in cgs (centimetre-gram-second), mks (metre-kilogramme-second), fps (foot-pound-second), SI (System International, again mks) and was made to become adept at mixing and swapping between any of them it makes me wince when I see such questions as:


> How does one convert from Watts to A/hr?


 When using units the slash sign / should not be used indiscriminately, it has a definite meaning ie 'per' or the act of division, so say litres per second is written l/s. Conversely the absence of a slash means 'times' so KWh is 1000 x Watts x hours. Sometimes a full stop or dash can be used to indicate 'times' to avoid confusion, but is normally omitted.

In SI units:

An amp is a measure of the rate of flow of electrical charge in coulombs per second, ie C/s.

A watt is a measure of the rate of flow of energy in joules per second, ie J/s. It is also known as power. There are many definitions of horsepower but 1HP is usually taken as 746W. A 3KW kettle uses power at the rate of 3KJ/s.

Ampere.hour is therefore a measure of the quantity of charge, ie (C/s) x hour, so 1Ah is (1C/s) x 3600s which is 3600C.

Similarly a KWh is a measure of the quantity of energy, ie (J/s) x hour, so 1KWh is (1000J/s) x 3600s which is 3.6MJ (MJ=Megajoule or 1 million joules))

A/hr as written means (Joules/second) / hour), or Joules per second per hour, a unit not in general use but which could be used as a measure of an accelerating rate of flow of energy and which would normally be written as J/s2, comparable with the more familiar m/s2. An object on earth in a vacuum will fall with an acceleration of (depending where you are) about 9.81m/s2.

There is therefore no conversion factor from W to Ah, it is like trying to convert feet to pounds.

Please don't think I am trying to be clever, I am just trying to flag up that we should be careful when using units.

Alan


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Blimey, I thought I was anal ?.

.


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## holeshole (Mar 20, 2010)

Guilty as charged!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Alan

Of course you are right and those of use who have studied Maths and/or Physics to at least 'A' level will understand what you are saying,

I feel very sorry for any mid-twenties guy who has an ambitoin to sail around the world who does not know the basics of mechanics.

My advice would be 'Do not do it'

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

The big danger is when it all goes wrong.

Before sat-nav and inertial navigation systems, a navigator was just that, and he used the sun and stars to find his/her position on the earth with a sextant and a compass.

Now, you can spend millions on a new boat or aircraft, complete with every toy, but if you lose the electrics, you're dead in the water or a glider.

'Trustee From The Toolroom' by Nevil Shute is an interesting story, well worth a read. I have read it many times over the years, now on my second book as the first one got worn out!

Available free now:

http://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20140417

Peter


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

listerdiesel said:


> The big danger is when it all goes wrong.
> 
> Before sat-nav and inertial navigation systems,* a navigator was just that, and he used the sun and stars to find his/her position on the earth with a sextant and a compass.*
> 
> ...


The navigator needed two aids for astro-navigation

An accurate timepiece

Sight-reduction tables and the mathematical ability to use them correctly.

Of course he should also be running a dead-reckoning plot based on course, speed and time - for when he cannot see sun, moon or stars.

The Astro-navigation system and Satnav use identical concepts - the intersection of three, or more circles derived from cones projected onto the earth's surface created from observation of stars/satellites. The differences are that Satnav systems work without line of sight, i.e.cloud-free, and also do the computing calculations that are required when using sight reduction tables.

Just writing about it makes me realise how long ago I learned all this stuff. I still have a sextant on the boat and sight reduction tables - but they are long out-of-date. However I could probably still do a noon transit to get my longitude and a sunrise or sunset sight to get my latitude.

Peter you are correct about electrics - I have made a note to take extra watch batteries next time I go to sea, because without the correct time astro-navigation is impossible. To understand that one needs to go to the Greenwich Museum and see the clocks that solved the problem of the accuracy of time. That accuracy is still important for the working of Satnavs and is dependent on the GPS satellites transmitting accurate time signals.

I will Nerd off now.

Geoff

.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Nothing nerdy, Geoff, I'm into ready 'Trustee' yet again!

It's a lovely story.

Peter


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## holeshole (Mar 20, 2010)

Fully agree, and Neville Shute is my favourite author and Trustee from the Tool Room my favourite easy-read book. Happened to re-read it a few weeks ago actually after reading several historical type tomes, Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet being one. For anyone who hasn't come across him before Neville Shute Norway, to give him his full name, had an interesting engineering career as well as being a very popular author with his books being made into hit movies starring the leading actors and actresses of the day. He was the chief stress calculator for Barnes Wallis on the R100 and his books mostly revolve around aviation and sailing.

Alan


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

:frown2:And I really thought I was about to solve the mystery of using 6 volt batteries!


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