# Burstner Issues incl Hartel Door



## 96299

Hi All

This is in the Burstner section but could apply to other motorhomes,especialy ones with hartel doors.

Just been on the phone to my dealer about one or two problems that I have got,(niggles really)and I`m glad I did.

My motorhome from day one had a cracking noise when treading on the toilet floor 8O The dealer said, after i had first reported it,give it time to settle in and get back to me in a few months.This I did,and its been alot longer than just a few months,but anyway,its still happening.he said today,that they are getting more complaints about this,and apparently,its only on the 747`s,and I assume 748`s as well?
He said that it is probaly got something to do with a join in the floor,and on mine,after some use,this is more evident,as you can see the join grinning through the vinyl.Check your dunny floors out people.Give them a good walking over. 8O 

The other problem is... The new Hartel door systems.This is where it could effect other makes of motorhomes.
My door is binding a bit and sometimes due to expantion,seems as though the door is locked when it isn`t.maybe mine only needs some minor adjustments which i will try,whereas others that he had mentioned are on their 3rd doors for more serious problems.

My dealer was full of praise for the Hartel doors when they first appeared,but not anymore,they are getting quite a few complaints about them.

So all.Check your toilet floor for the cracking sounds and check out the hartel door as well for anything that dont seem right. :roll: 

steve


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## blondy

*hartal door*

Hi Steve, I have a hartal door on my elegance.
I drove it home from the dealers and let it stand outside in the sun a few hours with the door open, it then wouldn't shut as it had expanded so the locking pins hit the frame.
I screwed these in carefully and kept checking till o/k, then only 2 of the pins would lock correctly, to cut a long story short, after 2 days and many adjustments it now works perfect, I think, O I did have to take one of the pin assemblies out of the door later as it came apart in the door.
It has now worked o/k for a year.
Hope you get yours sorted Cheers

Don


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## GerryD

Isn't this the same door that Swift fit to the new Sundance and that Roclaire wanted to launch a cruse missile over. I seem to remember Peter saying that they had had issues with the Hartel door.
If it is then this is just the start of the bubble.
Gerry


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## 96299

*Re: hartal door*



blondy said:


> Hi Steve, I have a hartal door on my elegance.
> I drove it home from the dealers and let it stand outside in the sun a few hours with the door open, it then wouldn't shut as it had expanded so the locking pins hit the frame.
> I screwed these in carefully and kept checking till o/k, then only 2 of the pins would lock correctly, to cut a long story short, after 2 days and many adjustments it now works perfect, I think, O I did have to take one of the pin assemblies out of the door later as it came apart in the door.
> 
> It has now worked o/k for a year.
> Hope you get yours sorted Cheers
> 
> Don


Hi Don

yes,the pins were mentioned in my coversation with the dealer.His tone of voice suggested that he had,had enough of the Hartel (or is it Hartal ?) doors and would like to get shot of them.My words not his. :lol:

Any other Burstner owners out there with the creaking,cracking floors? There must be some as it is being reported more and more by users.

steve


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## 106986

Hi Steve

We haven't noticed the creaking of the floor, but we have problems with our door.

I have major problems opening it sometimes as if it is locked. We have now cracked our 2nd plastic casing around the handle because of this. Barry keeps altering the scews but it still keeps happening. We put it down to our m/h being parked on a slope on our drive. But the door does drive me mad. Worried that one of these days we're just not going to be able to get into it at all.

Kirsty


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## 96299

Hi Kirsty

My door is exactly how you discribe yours.I think its worse when the weather is hot,do you find this.?

steve


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## GerryD

Steve,
I know it's a Burstner but I am pretty convinced it is the same door that Swift fit to the current Sundance range and the same as the one that Roclair was complaining about.
Might be worth a pm to Peter or Kath to see if they can help or guide you. I seem to remember Peter saying that they were having issues with the door.
Gerry


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## 96299

GerryD said:


> Steve,
> I know it's a Burstner but I am pretty convinced it is the same door that Swift fit to the current Sundance range and the same as the one that Roclair was complaining about.
> Might be worth a pm to Peter or Kath to see if they can help or guide you. I seem to remember Peter saying that they were having issues with the door.
> Gerry


Hi Gerry

Thanks,I will pm the swiftgroup.Hadn`t noticed that this had been posted on before. :?

steve


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## Bigmal666

*Hartnel door on Elegance*

We have a Vurstner Elegance 710i purchased as new July 07. The door problem is one of about 25 faults still outstanding......but that's another story!
It has been back for repair twicw. Still now joy still get locked in and out. At first the dealer stated there was nothing wrong, later they stated they made an ajustment. Now they say they have a fix for the problem.
Our van us going back for a third time in July we will try to update you with what goes on.
Incidently we have a rep , Mr Steve Phillips from Burstner came to see the van at our house and he kept very quiet over everything other than sayin the dealer will take care of it.
If you have a Burstner problem you can't sort out you could try emailing him at [email protected]


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## Mardie

Hi, don't know if we had the same problem as yourselves, but we picked up our new Burstner Performance last August and when we got it home we had a problem with the door not opening, we actually filed the metal catch on the van down just very slightly. We didn't have any further problem until we were in France a month ago when we think the heat caused it to jam again, back in the UK its been fine.

Mardie


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## Bigmal666

*Burstner elegance 710i*

The common factor with the doors seems to be heat related. We never thought about this before we read all these comments.
It seem to be yet another design fault with Burstner vans.


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## Nora+Neil

Anyone have a photo for the Hartel Door.

Is it just 2006/2007 MH.


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## carol

Chigman said:


> Hi All
> 
> This is in the Burstner section but could apply to other motorhomes,especialy ones with hartel doors.
> 
> My dealer was full of praise for the Hartel doors when they first appeared,but not anymore,they are getting quite a few complaints about them.
> 
> So all.Check your toilet floor for the cracking sounds and check out the hartel door as well for anything that dont seem right. :roll:
> 
> steve


Steve, I have seen several references over the last few weeks to Hartel doors - I think Peter of Swift even mentioned them, what are they? How do they differ?

I have a Rapido, with a door - but what, I do not know... what makes them different, anyone got a picture?

Carol


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## 96299

Nora+Neil said:


> Anyone have a photo for the Hartel Door.
> 
> Is it just 2006/2007 MH.


Hi

Mines a july 07 model.Only have minor issues,but it is heat related.No probs lately but it hasn`t been very hot,and I sprayed the doors moving parts with plenty of wd40.
My door also seems to bind slightly when its about 3/4 open to fully open.Anyone else get that?

steve


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## 96299

carol said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> This is in the Burstner section but could apply to other motorhomes,especialy ones with hartel doors.
> 
> My dealer was full of praise for the Hartel doors when they first appeared,but not anymore,they are getting quite a few complaints about them.
> 
> So all.Check your toilet floor for the cracking sounds and check out the hartel door as well for anything that dont seem right. :roll:
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, I have seen several references over the last few weeks to Hartel doors - I think Peter of Swift even mentioned them, what are they? How do they differ?
> 
> I have a Rapido, with a door - but what, I do not know... what makes them different, anyone got a picture?
> 
> Carol
Click to expand...

Hi Carol

The Hartel door is a beefed up habitation security door with three point locking.It is built like a tank with massive metal hinges,and would weigh a fair amount also.It feels like a proper door,but as you`ve read,it has some issues.

steve


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## capitanjohn

I have just seen a new Burstner with a Hartal door and his had different pins on the door. What they have done is to reduce the thickness of the mushroom head, so I have notified my suppling dealer who is going to order three new pins , I am supprised he didn't know about the mod already. 


Regards John.


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## 114295

My toilet floor creaks, and I can see an outline of a shape like an underfloor compartment through the vinyl, Is there also a carpet for the toilet floor, as ours has not come with one.
No problems with door a moment....
Cheers
Rob


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## CLS

Having serviced both new Burstners and Swift Sundance models , the doors fitted to both are from the same door manufacturer ( Hartel ) but completly different doors.

Cheers Mark


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## 96299

capitanjohn said:


> I have just seen a new Burstner with a Hartal door and his had different pins on the door. What they have done is to reduce the thickness of the mushroom head, so I have notified my suppling dealer who is going to order three new pins , I am supprised he didn't know about the mod already.
> 
> Regards John.


Hi John

I have made a note of this and will talk to my dealer about it.Thanks for posting the info.

steve


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## 96299

PLAYBOYO said:


> My toilet floor creaks, and I can see an outline of a shape like an underfloor compartment through the vinyl, Is there also a carpet for the toilet floor, as ours has not come with one.
> No problems with door a moment....
> Cheers
> Rob


Update..

My van is at the dealers now having the creaking floor hopefuly fixed.They need it for about four weeks as it is a major job for them.It`s not 100% that they can even do the job,and if they cant,it`ll have to go back to the factory in Germany, but I have faith in them guy`s though 

Are there any more Burstner owners out there with the creaking floor.? Mine creaks in the toilet/bathroom area only.

steve


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## Burneyinn

I've heard from others that there have been some problems with the floors on the new Argos. I think this issue is confined to them.

Our van will be snuggling up to yours next week as it is going in to have the scuttle issue sorted plus a few other odds & ends.

Hope your van can be fixed here to save a factory visit.


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## 96299

Burneyinn said:


> I've heard from others that there have been some problems with the floors on the new Argos. I think this issue is confined to them.
> 
> Our van will be snuggling up to yours next week as it is going in to have the scuttle issue sorted plus a few other odds & ends.
> 
> Hope your van can be fixed here to save a factory visit.


Thanks Burneyinn  As I said,I have faith.The factory cant fit me in till at least March and thats no good as I have a few things planned around that time.

steve


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## inkey-2008

We have the creaking floor. I have got up between the floors. there is a join in the floor panel and it is right by the sink, there is no support under the join and the floor is flexing when stood on.

The two edges are rubbing and causing the noise. 
More worrying is that the floor is flexing so much the next thing is the floor de-laminating.
It wants a frame fitted under the floor to stop it flexing and that should stop the creaking and the floor from de-laminating. 

The door needs a good tug to close completely from inside or a good slam.I have tried moving the pins out but they wont go any further and the hinge side does not look as if it can be moved. 

I am in Spain at the moment but on my return I will make a metal support for the floor. 

Andy


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## Rapide561

*Scuttle*



Burneyinn said:


> I've heard from others that there have been some problems with the floors on the new Argos. I think this issue is confined to them.
> 
> Our van will be snuggling up to yours next week as it is going in to have the scuttle issue sorted plus a few other odds & ends.
> 
> Hope your van can be fixed here to save a factory visit.


Hi

How does an A Class suffer the scuttle thing? I thought the scuttle thing was only a problem with other types of van?

Russell

I have a Hartal door on my Swift and other than a slightly loose bit of interior trim, the door is absolutely grand. It shuts with a good, firm "clunk"


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## teensvan

Hi Steve.

Please forgive my ignorance but what is a hartel door. We have a 2004 748-2 and have been fulltiming in it for 30 months. Could you please let us know what year reg van you are talking about with this problem.

steve & ann. ------------ teensvan.


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## mauriceheather1

*burstner door*

i have the elegance 821 new in jan 2008 went to spain for three months and could not lock the hab door due to the pins knocking against the frame tried adjusting the pins but no luck. went back to chelston motorhomes who said there was a mod from burstner.removed the old pins and put in new ones without the flat heads on them never had a problem since. off to spain tomorrow .ps if you are in the burstner club speak to john ellison the tec officer. cheers maurice


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## Burneyinn

*Re: Scuttle*



Rapide561 said:


> How does an A Class suffer the scuttle thing? I thought the scuttle thing was only a problem with other types of van?


Sorry Russell different problem have a look at 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-532466.html#532466

Hartel doors - on New Argos, 821 at some other Burstner models 2007 on and also now used by others Swift etc


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## 96299

inkey-2008 said:


> We have the creaking floor. I have got up between the floors. there is a join in the floor panel and it is right by the sink, there is no support under the join and the floor is flexing when stood on.
> 
> The two edges are rubbing and causing the noise.
> More worrying is that the floor is flexing so much the next thing is the floor de-laminating.
> It wants a frame fitted under the floor to stop it flexing and that should stop the creaking and the floor from de-laminating.
> 
> The door needs a good tug to close completely from inside or a good slam.I have tried moving the pins out but they wont go any further and the hinge side does not look as if it can be moved.
> 
> I am in Spain at the moment but on my return I will make a metal support for the floor.
> 
> Andy


Dont quote me, but i think there is a recall on the Hartel door.Phone your dealer for more info.

The floor doesn`t need a frame under it.The method used involves wedges and some sort of sealant/hardner.once the sealant has set then the wedges can be taken out.

steve


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## 96299

Look at these photos of my own vehicles creaking floor joint.It grins through so is easy to see.Just click the picture for a closer look.

steve


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## inkey-2008

I have fitted wooden plate under the floor supported by a jack to test to see if supporting the floor like the frame I will fit. Instant success. No more squeaks. Andy


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## 96299

inkey-2008 said:


> I have fitted wooden plate under the floor supported by a jack to test to see if supporting the floor like the frame I will fit. Instant success. No more squeaks. Andy


If your van is still under warranty,why are you doing a fix yourself.All your doing is adding more weight to the van,and probably throwing up questions to future buyers if you decide to go down the selling route.Let the dealer deal with it. :?

steve


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## inkey-2008

My van Is not under warranty it is 2002. The frame I will make will only weigh an pound or so and you would have to crawl up under the floor space to see it and if you had never seen under the floor of another van you would not know it had been added. Going by the reports of dealer repairs to vans and the time scale I will get on it my self. 

Andy


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## 96299

inkey-2008 said:


> My van Is not under warranty it is 2002. The frame I will make will only weigh an pound or so and you would have to crawl up under the floor space to see it and if you had never seen under the floor of another van you would not know it had been added. Going by the reports of dealer repairs to vans and the time scale I will get on it my self.
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy

I didn`t realise this was a problem on older models as well 8O I thought it was just the later ones like my 2007.Sounds like they have had this problem for a few years then doesn`t it.Good luck with your fix 

steve


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## 120216

I picked up my Argos last week, its a brand new one and today I could not open the door. It seemed locked and made a nasty clicking noise when I tried to open it. I presume this is the same problem that is spoken about here. Do you know if there is a recognized "fix" for this problem yet as I would like to be ready with the answer when I tell my dealer.

Thanks

Dave


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## 96299

daw4t said:


> I picked up my Argos last week, its a brand new one and today I could not open the door. It seemed locked and made a nasty clicking noise when I tried to open it. I presume this is the same problem that is spoken about here. Do you know if there is a recognized "fix" for this problem yet as I would like to be ready with the answer when I tell my dealer.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave


The last time I spoke to my dealer, he mentioned of mods being done to these doors. He went on to say that the hartel door has been a bit of a nightmare for them.Good luck.

steve


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## Snunkie

I know this is an old post but we have the same problem with the hartal door. 2008 argos 747. The second plastic casing has cracked, precious owner a,ready had it replaced. Yesterday we adjusted all the pins and also the retaining catches on the door frame and now we don't get 'trapped' inside th MH which was pretty scary. We also found that the mechanism inside was cracked which we have fixed by me,ting together with a soldering iron. However, the outer handle still catches on the casing and no point replacing it as it will just crack a new one.

Don't suppose we can get it replaced by hartal as MH is 6 years old now and we aren't the original owners.

What did the rest of you do in the end?


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## Raf

Snunkie said:


> I know this is an old post but we have the same problem with the hartal door. 2008 argos 747. The second plastic casing has cracked, precious owner a,ready had it replaced. Yesterday we adjusted all the pins and also the retaining catches on the door frame and now we don't get 'trapped' inside th MH which was pretty scary. We also found that the mechanism inside was cracked which we have fixed by me,ting together with a soldering iron. However, the outer handle still catches on the casing and no point replacing it as it will just crack a new one.
> 
> Don't suppose we can get it replaced by hartal as MH is 6 years old now and we aren't the original owners.
> 
> What did the rest of you do in the end?


I also have this issue with my hartal door. I have tried adjusting the pins and it opens and closes. However from the outside when opening i need to push the door inwards whilst i pull the handle. Also if inside the van i can see daylight through some parts of the door. Anyone know a good fix for this?


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## Bubblehead

Hi

Our Hartnel door opens and closes fine, we did have the whole lock come apart a few years ago which was easily fixed by stripping the plastic cover off and refitting the lock nut using some locktite.

We also have a small gap around the door, mainly on the hinge side, I've adjusted the strike plates as much as possible to try and pull the door in a little but the gap remains. Is it possible to adjust the hinges in?

Andy


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## Kev

Burneyinn said:


> I've heard from others that there have been some problems with the floors on the new Argos. I think this issue is confined to them.
> 
> Our van will be snuggling up to yours next week as it is going in to have the scuttle issue sorted plus a few other odds & ends.
> 
> Hope your van can be fixed here to save a factory visit.


I've a 2013 burstner ixeo and have cracking on floor which has led to a leak after shower on main cabin. I've plastic compounded the small cracks and the problem is fixed and I'm putting in a latted we ooden floor to spread the load across the floor.. But it is strange fault.. Anyone else have???


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## jiwawa

Hi Kev and welcome to the forum.

This is a very old thread - you might be better to start a new one with a more descriptive title for your own problem.


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