# diesel versus petrol/gas



## petesam

can anyone tell me which is more fuel efficient and more reliable in a RV. Diesel or petrol/gas.I am ready to buy but don,t know which to go for.The main use will be travelling abroad i.e France ,Spain& Portugal. I would appreciate your help. I owned a Chevy Travel Cruiser ( petrol) in 1981 which returned aprox 10 mpg. Have things changed?


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## olley

Hi petesam the short answer is not much.  a "C" class petrol may return figures around 15mpg an "A" will be around 10mpg.

In this country lpg makes sense because of the difference in price between lpg and diesel, abroad the difference is generally a lot less, and the availability can also be a problem in Spain.

If I intended to tour mainly Europe I would go for a DP.

Olley


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## 99181

hi petesam...i have petrol/gas a c class 7.4 engine and last summer went to france the lpg or as they call it gpl is cheep north france it was 70 cents per later and the further down you went it got cheeper 62 cent.10 mpg fully loaded
dave


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## petesam

Hiya Olley,thanks for your prompt reply.I presume your reply of DP means diesel .I am thinking of an A class with a 6.5 t/diesel chevy unit on a 30ft chassis.Any further information would be appreciated


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## kijana

Depends on your budget, both for initial purchase and ongoing.

You will be more limited in choice of RV's if you decide you want a diesel.

Depending on the miles you intend to do, you may decide it's worth getting a petrol & converting to gas.

We have a 30 foot RV, which gives around 9mpg towing a Smart on an A-frame. But we wouldn't have got the floorplan we wanted if we'd gone for a diesel.

Like the man said, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll love it, whatever you buy!

Bruce


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## olley

Hi petesam, most of the smaller diesels are freds, which can be very noisy, Kands has got one perhaps he can reply as to whether he would like to do a tour of Europe in it.

Sorry get carried away with these acronyms DP= diesel pusher Fred=front engined diesel

Olley


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## kijana

Blimey Olley - what's the chances of both posting at exactly the same time??!!

(Though it's an hour later here in Spain)


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## olley

Hi Kijana, great minds think alike   

Olley


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## 88927

Hi
As Olley has said, we have a 30 foot A Class diesel RV with 6.5 Chevy Turbo Diesel up front.
It is a bit noisier than the Rolls I used to own, about the same on fuel (approx 15 MPG) and a lot cheaper to service :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Would I travel around Europe in it? You bet and we will......
I have not travelled in a petrol so I cannot make a comparison between the two, but for my money I love our old tractor (or was it a bailer?) engine and to me, it sounds luverly :lol: :lol: 

Good luck whichever way you decide to go, I think petrol engined RV's are cheaper to buy, so add that saving into any fuel cost reckoning.....

Keith


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## MicknPat

Hi Petesam,

We are looking to buy a diesel pusher to replace our 4x4 and caravan outfit.

We have owned a gas converted 4x4 for 5 years and if still caravanning would buy another.

If you do buy a petrol RV and convert it to LPG make sure you get filler points to BOTH sides.

LPG is well available in the UK but I would have to say from my experience of the filling stations I have used you would have great difficulty in gaining access with a large RV at the majority.

France has more GPL, as they call it, stations than UK, on the autoroutes practically ALL service stations sell GPL, off the autoroutes finding a GPL station can be hit and miss.

Main land Spain has very few LPG filling stations, 21 to be exact according to Repsol who appear to be the only company in Spain selling auto LPG 

Hope this helps.


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## 101368

MicknPat said:


> Hi Petesam,
> 
> We are looking to buy a diesel pusher to replace our 4x4 and caravan outfit.
> 
> We have owned a gas converted 4x4 for 5 years and if still caravanning would buy another.
> 
> If you do buy a petrol RV and convert it to LPG make sure you get filler points to BOTH sides.
> 
> LPG is well available in the UK but I would have to say from my experience of the filling stations I have used you would have great difficulty in gaining access with a large RV at the majority.
> 
> France has more GPL, as they call it, stations than UK, on the autoroutes practically ALL service stations sell GPL, off the autoroutes finding a GPL station can be hit and miss.
> 
> Main land Spain has very few LPG filling stations, 21 to be exact according to Repsol who appear to be the only company in Spain selling auto LPG
> 
> Hope this helps.


In my experience LPG availability is a bit patchy in the uk. Looking at the book which claims to list them all there are areas where there are lots but quite large areas where few and far between.


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## des

2 comments - 

first, a diesel puller is likely to be very noisy on the road. and of course, a pusher is an entirely different beast, as built on a much bigger and heavier chassis, prob. with air brakes and significantly higher payiload.

second, we have never had a problem getting lpg. sometimes takes a little planning. however, getting it at a good price is entirely different. usually buy from countrywide, currently 34p. have paid as much as 54p, returning from abbey wood (east london) which hardly justifies buying it, bearing in mind approx 20% less mpg on lpg.

my advice would be, if you can afford it, and if you have a class c licence, go for a diesel pusher. if you want petrol and expect to drive the rv more than say 5,000 miles per year, lpg conversion starts to make sense. but the costs of fuel are far from the biggest costs of running an rv (depreciation & loss of interest dominate).

also, see my lpg savings calculator on this site. if it isn't clear how to use it, pm me.

des


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## MicknPat

emgee said:


> In my experience LPG availability is a bit patchy in the uk. Looking at the book which claims to list them all there are areas where there are lots but quite large areas where few and far between.


I would agree with that statement Emgee, whenever we have taken a long journey I have had to search maps or web pages to locate LPG stations.

One other piece of advice would be, 'Always top up if you see an LPG station' at 34ppl (paid that yesterday at Flogas in Stoke on Trent  ) rather than run out and be using petrol at 90ppl


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## G2EWS

Hi Petesam,

I have put info on a previous thread about LPG conversion and pay back. I have pasted the info below.

With regards to diesel and petrol, I am sure it is all a bit of a mind thing. We used to want diesel because it was cheaper but of course now it costs more. I was talking with a chap near our business unit on Tuesday. He has a V8 petrol Range Rover and gets low 20's mpg. I have a diesel Disco and I get low 20's mpg. He can accelerate when he wants to, I have to wait until the right moment. I pay more for fuel than he does!

Here are those figures for payback:

Average 500 miles per month
Petrol cost 99p per litre
LPG costs 37p per litre
MPG is 12 so LPG (MPG) is 10.8 (10% less)
Cost of install £3,000
Pay back is 29.4 months

More realistically with mileage:

Average 250 miles per month
Petrol cost 99p per litre
LPG costs 37p per litre
MPG is 12 so LPG (MPG) is 10.8 (10% less)
Cost of install £3,000
Pay back is 58.8 months

Basically a lot of months to get pay back whatever way you look at it.

By the way, there are a number of different ideas on loss of fuel consumption with lpg over mpg the above just gives you an idea based on one theory of loosing 10%, others theories say 20%

My RV is a 7 1/2 litre V8 petrol. I cannot give you fuel economy because I have not used it enough. However, it is quiet enough and most definitely smooth enough. However, like Keith has never driven a petrol, I have never driven a diesel.

Regards

Chris


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## olley

Hi Petesam another thing to consider is the location of the lpg tanks, with a short length RV it can be quite a problem, you need a space about 3'x18" for 1 100L tank and as a minimum you need 2.

On my brave they reduced the size of the petrol tank by about a third, and fitted the lpg tanks behind it. cost an extra £500!

Olley


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## 101411

Just a quick note. I ran my 4X4 on LPG for 6 years and also my old Chevvy Fleetwood motorhome. I invested in a Tom Tom satnav and uploaded the LPG stations from the internet............never worried about running out of LPG again!!!!! Just tell it to find the nearest LPG station and off you go. We found we were never more than 10 minutes drive from one (in the UK) and it never proved a problem again. I would NEVER even consider having a petrol RV that didn't run on LPG it will pay for itself in 18 months not to mention the feeling of satisfaction you get filling up at a petrol station knowing everyone else is paying more than double what you are!!!!!

Never had a diesel so cant comment on them sorry.

Good luck with your search.

Dazzer


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## 89338

I considered putting a LPG conversion on my 6.8 V10 but having looked at the cost and thinking of the saving made against petrol, I came to to conclusion that the amount I would have to pay out to have it done = a lot of fuel. Given I seem to average around 4000 / 5000 miles a year and assuming the price of LPG does not go up ( should our tax man think oh ), it would have taken a good while to get the cost back. As Chris shows in his post.

At the end of the day Big vehicles use lots of fuel it is the nature of the beast.

Would not swap it though, and if I did it might be for a bigger one. Mines 30' C class.

On the point of LPG conversions, when I enquired locally I was told it would need two kits as they did not do one bigger than V8. Is this true ?

Best advise I would give is to buy one with the best floor plan to suit your needs and enjoy it.

Regards

Lampie


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## olley

Hi Lampie, with a gas carb. as mine is I don't think it makes any difference how many cylinders you have, but it would do with a sequential multipoint. 

Somebody on here posted last year about a multipoint gas con. on his v10 he said his converter altered the ecu? that came with the conversion so that it worked on the v10.

Olley


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## 101002

Lampie said:


> I considered putting a LPG conversion on my 6.8 V10 but having looked at the cost and thinking of the saving made against petrol, I came to to conclusion that the amount I would have to pay out to have it done = a lot of fuel. Given I seem to average around 4000 / 5000 miles a year and assuming the price of LPG does not go up ( should our tax man think oh ), it would have taken a good while to get the cost back. As Chris shows in his post.
> 
> At the end of the day Big vehicles use lots of fuel it is the nature of the beast.
> 
> Would not swap it though, and if I did it might be for a bigger one. Mines 30' C class.
> 
> On the point of LPG conversions, when I enquired locally I was told it would need two kits as they did not do one bigger than V8. Is this true ?
> 
> Best advise I would give is to buy one with the best floor plan to suit your needs and enjoy it.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Lampie


Hi Lampie

I have a V10 Triton in my A class 32ft RV. I was told exactly the same about the two kits needed. i rang all over the country picking brains.
I got a garage Hardies in Pwllheli Wales. This man Simon Hardy told me they do V10s and use one kit but add an extra two beats into the computer software and it doesnt know.

Took it in they did the job 360 litre tanks so i get about 285 litres on board one fill. Charged me £3,400 inclusive vat and gas fill up.Dont bother looking for LPG stations as i just fill up whenever as i have a range of 600-650mls. It did 10mpg on petrol and is doing the same on gas but at reduced price.

I did download all the LPG stations off the net and it gives you their phone numbers times of business and address. and whether they take credit cards. I ring them and ask the price first and choose were i fill up.

The filling fitting was put in the centre at the back of the RV so i can fill easily from anywhere even been to wrong side of pump.

Big FRank. PS Do not attempt to drill holes in your domestic gas tank and fill up. The revenue dont like it.

One last thing if you do not not recoup your outlay it makes it easier to sell the beast.


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## dangerous

petesam said:


> can anyone tell me which is more fuel efficient and more reliable in a RV. Diesel or petrol/gas.I am ready to buy but don,t know which to go for.The main use will be travelling abroad i.e France ,Spain& Portugal. I would appreciate your help. I owned a Chevy Travel Cruiser ( petrol) in 1981 which returned aprox 10 mpg. Have things changed?


We have a 30ft Winnebago, front engine and diesel powered, seems to do a bit better than 14mpg and it is much quieter than the Kon-Tiki on a Ducato that we PXchanged.

Richard


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## 101411

Have a gas conversion man just round the corner from me. He has done my 4x4 and my old RV. He can do a V10 gas conversion with a single kit only. Quoted me about £ 2800ish for a 200ltr double tank conversion on my Chateau. The guy is called John Boardman is based in Blackpool Lancashire and can be contacted on 01253 354391 or mobile 07973 815786. Also he does a good price on the convertors to fill up the house LPG tanks (£30.00 for mine not including postage as i only live over the road from him!!).


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## Superk

Hi, we have a petrol Ford V10 6.8 litre - a sweet engine - particularly on cruise - no problem holding a conversation across the cab - dropping gears can raise the noise level these engines like to rev. MPG - I don't worry - once you've bought it that's it. If you want to tour France and Spain as we do - we do about 20 campsites over each six months we are away some comments: 
Filling with fuel - we are occasionally caught out by filling stations where the exit is too sharp for 33 foot RV and towed car. We always have a good look before entering. Some, even on the motorway have started to install height barriers that we can't get under. With a diesel you can always go to the truck section. Also important to check canopy heights.I always fill up when we are about half full just to be sure.
As far as LPG is concerned in Spain it is too infrequent to make it worthwhile and might involve a deviation and special trip to the REPSOL centre.
Whenever I have looked at floorplans and compared ours with a diesel pusher the pusher has needed an extra 3 feet to get the same things in presumably because the engine occupies this space at the back. I would rather have the shorter vehicle and more space inside. You spend more time living than you do driving - well we do.


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## petesam

Hiya everyone, i would like to thank you all for your replies to my petrol/diesel query . I think i will go for a diesel unit as it seems less of a fuss to fill with diesel only and not to mess about with gas. Also i intend to travel Spain in the winter for the weather - (not many LPG stations) . Any further infomation would be appreciated. Thanks again Petesam.


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## 101368

Dazzer said:


> Just a quick note. I ran my 4X4 on LPG for 6 years and also my old Chevvy Fleetwood motorhome. I invested in a Tom Tom satnav and uploaded the LPG stations from the internet............never worried about running out of LPG again!!!!! Just tell it to find the nearest LPG station and off you go. We found we were never more than 10 minutes drive from one (in the UK) and it never proved a problem again. I would NEVER even consider having a petrol RV that didn't run on LPG it will pay for itself in 18 months not to mention the feeling of satisfaction you get filling up at a petrol station knowing everyone else is paying more than double what you are!!!!!
> 
> Never had a diesel so cant comment on them sorry.
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> 
> Dazzer


From where i'm currently sat in South Manchester the nearest is probably twice your figure of 10 minutes. More like an hour in rush hour. Last time I tried to use it the pump was broken. Took two hours to get to the next nearest and back on route. OK it was the friday evening rush hour . Use lpg for cooking/heating etc. Engine is diesel. But was very glad to wake up all warm and toasty and look out at the freezing fog. Made the running about seem worthwhile.


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## 101368

Dazzer said:


> Have a gas conversion man just round the corner from me. He has done my 4x4 and my old RV. He can do a V10 gas conversion with a single kit only. Quoted me about £ 2800ish for a 200ltr double tank conversion on my Chateau. The guy is called John Boardman is based in Blackpool Lancashire and can be contacted on 01253 354391 or mobile 07973 815786. Also he does a good price on the convertors to fill up the house LPG tanks (£30.00 for mine not including postage as i only live over the road from him!!).


For some reason the area from Manchester to Blackpool seems to have a large number of converters and lpg stations. I presume it's a historical thing based on someone started doing it there and it caught on so others followed. Go the other way from Manchester into Derbyshire and there's a big blank space on the map. Learnt this lesson when I drove to the one I knew had done lpg for years only to find they'd stopped doing it.


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## 101411

emgee said:


> Dazzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick note. I ran my 4X4 on LPG for 6 years and also my old Chevvy Fleetwood motorhome. I invested in a Tom Tom satnav and uploaded the LPG stations from the internet............never worried about running out of LPG again!!!!! Just tell it to find the nearest LPG station and off you go. We found we were never more than 10 minutes drive from one (in the UK) and it never proved a problem again. I would NEVER even consider having a petrol RV that didn't run on LPG it will pay for itself in 18 months not to mention the feeling of satisfaction you get filling up at a petrol station knowing everyone else is paying more than double what you are!!!!!
> 
> Never had a diesel so cant comment on them sorry.
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> 
> Dazzer
> 
> 
> 
> From where i'm currently sat in South Manchester the nearest is probably twice your figure of 10 minutes. More like an hour in rush hour. Last time I tried to use it the pump was broken. Took two hours to get to the next nearest and back on route. OK it was the friday evening rush hour . Use lpg for cooking/heating etc. Engine is diesel. But was very glad to wake up all warm and toasty and look out at the freezing fog. Made the running about seem worthwhile.
Click to expand...

I can only tell you my experiences. From my house I have 3 LPG stations within 10 minutes drive and never found finding LPG a problem (except in Scotland where even petrol stations can be very few and far between!!) Never been to Europe but if i did i would take one of those convertors to attach to bottled gas with me for running the house gas systems. I believe France has lots of LPG outlets as does Germany, Netherlands and also Turkey where it is sold at almost every petrol station. Guess its luck of the draw but i do recommend filling up at every opportunity and keep the house LPG filled as well especially if travelling on the continent.


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## 89338

Sorry if I went off on another thread Petesam. But likewise thanks for everyones reply on converting a V10. I might look at it again. Price wise those prices some off you have given was around what I was quoted.

Regards


Lampie


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## 102679

*Derv v petrol/lpg*

For long life and reliability then it's diesel all the way. To save some money and the world, depending on the size of your fuel tank and where you live, you can get an IBC delivered full of bio-diesel which is usually a little cheaper than ordinary fossil diesel. Another alternative is to consider LPG kits that are available that supplement diesel fuel. Introducing LPG gives complete combustion of the diesel fuel, drastically drops emissions and boosts engine performance considerably. [Beware though as abusing the power increase will shorten the life of the engine]. LPG is a good fuel but bear in mind the weight and size of tanks, fuel availability and the fact that they do need regular tuning as the diaphragm stretches and wears with use, this you cannot do yourself. A petrol engine running rich shows itself via black smoke, an engine running rich on LPG isn't so obvious until you notice the increase in fuel costs. LPG requires the ignition system to be spot on, a weak lead might be Ok for petrol but will show up with LPG. Remember to buy continental LPG pump attachments if you go abroad and the fact you're banned from going through the Chunnel. If your wallet has no limits and your RV has a large diesel engine it can be converted to run purely on LPG taking advantage of the higher compression ratio that LPG prefers, in essence you will be turning your diesel engine into an over-engineered petrol engine.Many bus operators have done this with varying success. This has also been done using hydrogen as fuel. Last words? Diesel engines reign supreme, look for a cheaper cleaner fuel to run them on. It's out there...


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## TonyHunt

Surely Lampie the obvious thing to do to keep the price down is to buy an RV that somebody else has already converted. Same as never buying a new motorhome. buy one 12-18 months old so that somebody else with more money than sense has paid for all the initial extras and VAT, and generally that age have had all the little niggles sorted out. Very often they have splurged out on all the toys also like Sat dishes, solar panels, roof boxes etc. There are loads of people out there thankfully that just have to have the new model of things when they come out.


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## johng1974

Hi, 
Bigfrank or someone can you elaborate on this quote?

_PS Do not attempt to drill holes in your domestic gas tank and fill up. The revenue dont like it. _

I am just buying my first MH/RV, a '85 V8 chevy 5.7 with LPG allready fitted.. soon I may be able to come up with running figures etc..

Luckily my town has a BP LPG filler (although I heard BP may be the most expensive as they seem to charge half of price of petrol whatever the price of petrol is)

John
Sussex


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## 101002

Hi John, 

Thanks for your Query about the domestic gas tank, I have sent you a private message with full instructions how to do it and where to buy the pump etc. Try to keep it secret. Big Frank


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