# Toll roads or not toll roads



## 117826 (Oct 29, 2008)

Hi Everyone.

A bit of advice needed please. We are travelling through France this summer for a three week holiday with the kids in August.

As opposed to slogging it all day which I learned was not much fun at all in the winter I have added a few overnight stops with driving times ranging from 2.5 - 4 hours. These have been roughly calculated using multimap.

If I decide not to use the toll roads all the time but try the A roads which will no doubt be much more interesting will it add lots more time?

For everyones info staring at calais. First stop Chalons En Champagne. Next stop Burgundy for 3 nights. Then onto the Ardeche for 1 night. Next is the coast ( Marseillan Plage) for 7 nights. Back to the Ardeche for 7 nights then back home. Same stops as before.

Many thanks,

Richard.


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Well - don't get me started -- oops too late. Last year we well me didn't say no to toll roads on TomTom and we ended up paying £250 around and on way back up when had got used to everything it only took us 20 mins more! can you believe it we worked it all out and the dogs hind leg routes I sorry we took on way down were eliminated on way back up.

Also the A roads were far more interesting definitely and surely that is the purpose of your holiday to enjoy the scenery and not be in a rush.

This year the no button will be firmly pressed or is it the yes button mmmm 7 weeks and counting wooohoooo can't wait!

Greenie


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## tommytli (Aug 7, 2008)

we have just returned from southern ardeche and we avoided the tolls and the national roads we still pretty quiet with no hold see some nice places and the fuel is about 10cents cheaper too so its a BIG NO TO THE TOLLS from me :lol: :lol:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I think Toll roads are brillliant if you are travelling all the way to Spain but if touring France then the A roads are better--you see places and travel through lovely villages and find camp sites or Aires. have a great time


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## 118130 (Nov 11, 2008)

If time is not critical then I definately say NO to toll roads. When we went to Chamonix-mont-blanc at Christmas we opted for the tolls (so as to do the drive in a day so as to arrive in the mountains before it got too dark) and the tolls cost well over £100 each way. Never again!

Our last trip over to France in April we said no to toll roads to Disney saving ourselves £60 on tolls (€30 each way from Calais to Paris), the difference between €0.85 and €1.07 a litre (worst case) on diesel and it was a much more picturesque and enjoyable drive.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I say no to toll roads bridges or anything else, what would they do if no one used them, pull them down, stuff em I say.

Kev.


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## capitanjohn (Nov 16, 2006)

Just returned from Marsellian last week and no tolls. Yes the N roads are much nicer but exactly twice the time, not the miles, they are the same.
So if I am in a hurry and a spare £100. I take the tolls.

John.


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## 117826 (Oct 29, 2008)

That is my worry, I don't mind spending a bit longer but twice the time would be a no no. Maybe I need to mix it up a bit.

Which are the decent A/N roads on my route. Any ideas?

Thanks.

Richard.


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## chalky9 (Oct 27, 2006)

Unless you cruise at high speed I don't believe that toll roads are necessarily that much faster.

As far as alternative routes are concerned, put your start point and destination into Google Maps and it will show you some options. Bear in mind that the estimated en route time on toll roads is based on a car cruising at near the legal maximum. In my experience you're likely to do better than the estimate on the non-toll roads.


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## tommytli (Aug 7, 2008)

rickp said:


> That is my worry, I don't mind spending a bit longer but twice the time would be a no no. Maybe I need to mix it up a bit.
> 
> Which are the decent A/N roads on my route. Any ideas?
> 
> ...


not sure on the twice the time bit, it took us 8hrs from south ardeche to disney land paris avoiding the tolls, it said on the tomtom it would of been 2hrs less on the tolls but prob about £100 + more


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## derek500 (Oct 31, 2005)

We regularly do Valencia to Calais/Dunkerque and never use toll roads.

If we're in a hurry we do it in three days, but usually we tinker with the route to see new places and take more time.

We cruise at about 55/60mph, so the toll roads wouldn't take much if any time off the journey.

Also, more town/village aires on route and plenty of cheaper supermarket diesel.


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## 118130 (Nov 11, 2008)

I find the viamichelin website a useful tool for initially working out the best route through Europe (France especially) as you can choose "most economical" among other planning options.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I wouldn't dream of influencing you one way or another but 2 things to bear in mind:

Toll prices are quite steep these days due to an increase plus the exchange rate. We noticed at Easter that this has pushed many lorry drivers, who would previously have used the peage, onto the N roads. N roads in many cases are dual carriageways and it will make little difference to you in terms of speed or time BUT there are still many miles of non-dualled road. That can be unnerving for your passenger ( facing the incoming lorries) as well as tiring to drive when lorries whiz past inches from your mirrors.

Many, not all, N roads go smack through the centre of towns and villages with no bypass or alternative. This is great if you are not in a hurry and are happy to negotiate market stalls and overhanging buildings in some case, but it will slow you down and it can be quite tiring. Most bypasses have a roundabout every few hundred metres and this will also slow you down.

G


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not done foreign on four wheels yet, but will eventually, so I'm informed, so thanks for those worms of wisdom Grizz.

Kev.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

If you want to know the effect (in time &/or money) of using pay Autoroutes use this:-

http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/homepage.html

You can specify "Peage" or "Non-Peage" routes and compare the results.


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

just back from france, our first trip added up the tolls £200 on 2400 miles, found the non toll roads slow if you want to put miles behind you, and trying to find diesel on sunday or monday or any other day for that matter on the small roads a nightmare, any way i think france was closed when we were there,and get this they still write cheques out at super markets, how backward is that, still they do make nice bread. dennis


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

A neccesary evil for us, well, for France at least as we're still subject to the 'W' word and free time is valuable. 
Come early retirement though and tolls will be avoided at all 'costs'.

Pete


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## mickyc (Jan 20, 2006)

Another thing worth bearing in mind is the fact that its very easy to accidentaly enter a speed restricted area (village sign) a few km/hr over just as the gendarmerie are playing hide and seek behind a hedge.

This will of course even up the cost a little

Yes I know there will be people revving up there keyboards with the "I'm on holiday so don't speed" posts, but the fact is that its very easy to miss a village sign and drift into a restricted area at 70kph

As regards to Toll roads we use them for any part of the journey thats more than a cpl of hrs long, we find the national routes fine but you can cover a lot more miles on the motorways, and due to the lack of (seemingly endless and pointless) roundabouts the motorways are far less stressfull to the van, and its occupants.


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

I agree with Mickyc that you really have to watch speed limits in towns and villages.

They constantly change, are quite rightly very slow around schools, and occasionally I'm honestly not certain just what the speed limit is.

But then I trundle through France to meet the French, and wouldn't dream of paying for a toll. I sometimes set TomTom to shortest Route just to see the beauty of empty rural roads marked in white on Michelin maps.

Good job my van's a tiddler.


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

To get a realistic time for a journey go into the TomTom menu and select 'limited speed' and enter the maximum speed you will be travelling at, say 55mph/90kmph or whatever. When the time for the journey is being calculated it will then be based on that speed, when outside areas with lower limits, eg. towns.
I find this gives me an accurate arrival time for a journey. Otherwise it assumes you will be cruising at the speed limits of the roads selected for the route and give an overly optimistic arrival time


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Jean-Luc said:


> I find this gives me an accurate arrival time for a journey.


We are _ hopeless_ at estimating journey time and seem to potter aimlessly along arriving hours after we have calculated we ought to arrive. I'm secretly awed by those people who spend their last night a hundred miles from the ferry and arrive in good time next day. I couldn't sleep unless we were parked as near to the ferry ramp as legally possible.

We tend to stop at the slightest diversion and sometimes, despite TT and some high quality map reading ( though I says it myself) we even get lost and finish up somewhere we'd never intended to visit.

This is fine if you started out without a very clear goal and have all the time to bumble about but, if I had only a fortnight''s holiday I think I'd be a bit more organised and, if that involved using more toll roads to get to where I'm going, then so be it.

G


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## derek500 (Oct 31, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> I wouldn't dream of influencing you one way or another but 2 things to bear in mind:
> 
> Toll prices are quite steep these days due to an increase plus the exchange rate. We noticed at Easter that this has pushed many lorry drivers, who would previously have used the peage, onto the N roads. N roads in many cases are dual carriageways and it will make little difference to you in terms of speed or time BUT there are still many miles of non-dualled road. That can be unnerving for your passenger ( facing the incoming lorries) as well as tiring to drive when lorries whiz past inches from your mirrors.
> 
> ...


I still don't think that using toll roads I would still be able to do Valencia to Dunkerque in less than the three days I do it in using non-toll roads and sticking to my 55/60mph cruising speed.


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## 117826 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks everybody, especially Stanner,what a great website. I will play around with it and see what difference it makes.

At first go I think it will take about 6 hours longer not being on the toll roads and save about £110.00 to get to the bottom.

I'll have to way up keeping everyone happy and less driving against £200 in tolls.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Richard.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

We came back via Chalon E C on Tuesday doing the first part to Reims on the N44. I can only say that we were more than glad to pay the tolls thereafter to be able to relax a bit. I think one of the factors to consider, baring accidents which can happen on either type of road, is that you can virtually guarantee your journey time on the toll roads, whereas on the minor roads you are govened by traffic conditions and time of day.

We reckon on at least a third on our journey times if going by minor (N roads) in France.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Tolls*

Hello,

TOLLS

We have just returned from France. We drove from Zeebrugge to Annecy Mostly on Toll Roads and then the same to Cote D'Azur.

On the way back instead of driving Via Troyes/Reims/Lille we used tolls to Metz then travelled Via Luxembourg and Belgium.

We saved quite a bit going back. Less tolls and cheaper fuel. €0.81 in Luxembourg and €0.91 in Belgium. It was around 35 miles more but we calculated that we saved at least £70.

In France we found Diesel costs varied greatly. Supermarkets we used charged as little as €0.93 (Carrefour outskirts of Troyes Direction Clerey) with most others charging €0.99. On the Autoroutes the prices ranged from €1.12 to a whopping €1.39. We even saw Unleaded advertised just north of Aix en Provence at €1.59 a litre. All we could assume was that the stations with the high prices may have run out of standard fuels. But in france the Difference is not usualy that much more inlike the UK.

My advice is not to fill up at all on the Autoroutes if possible. Had we done so, the fuel cost would have been 20% higher.

Fill up in local towns, always look out for petrol prices when passing stations.

If you have the time good RN roads are better.

Trev

Our van is 5 ton and has twin rear wheels on one axle. It is over 8m but we were always charged Touristic Rates on french tolls as Class II. I keep all the receipts and had anyone charged us class III I would have queried this.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

rickp said:


> Thanks everybody, especially Stanner,what a great website. I will play around with it and see what difference it makes.
> 
> At first go I think it will take about 6 hours longer not being on the toll roads and save about £110.00 to get to the bottom.
> 
> ...


I find their travel times on the peage Autoroutes to about the best you could possibly manage and their times on non-peage routes more errr "realistic" shall we say.

But then you have to think who operates that site and why.

PS If I want to drive around looking at motorway verges I can do that for free over here.


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## stevee4 (Oct 12, 2007)

*try this*

Instead of google or multi maps try this link
http://www.viamichelin.co.uk/viamichelin/gbr/tpl/hme/MaHomePage.htm
in the options section it has a recomended routes. We used the the A75 great road and free mostly!! coming back from Marseilian Plage


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

The only times we use toll roads in France with the motorhome is when its an emergency (like I had to get the Mrs back to a UK hospital quickly from Carcasonne ) or if we get lost. Sorry, I take the wrong turning!.
C.


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

Look on the map for the N roads (some of them have now been re-designated D-roads {but they are still the same!}) which run parallel to the autoroutes. They are brilliant - they were upgraded in the past but now carry hardly any traffic at all. If you can find the 'BIS' routes (used to be Bison Fute) - holiday routes - they will be excellent, much better, to my mind, than autoroutes


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

I haven't studied it, but I think this is the website

http://www.bison-fute.equipement.gouv.fr/diri/Accueil.do


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

hblewett said:


> but now carry hardly any traffic at all.


Not always so now. The French are feeling the pinch as well and this has forced many lorries off the peage and onto the N roads. They still have deadlines to keep and drive at the same speed as they did on the peage.
We've also noticed many more lorries driving at weekends.

Surely it's horses for courses ? Some of us use a mixture depending on whether we want to get from A to B as quickly as possible because we've done that bit of France twice a year since 1970 and at other times we potter gently along back roads.

G


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Lorries*



Grizzly said:


> hblewett said:
> 
> 
> > but now carry hardly any traffic at all.
> ...


Over the last year or so , I have noticed quite an increase in traffic and lorries on the N & D routes in France. On some roads it was tight enough for our motorhome but met quite a few HGV's along the routes.

Also noticed the Benelux routes as busy as they are were even busier than ever.

Trev


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## 117826 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks Steevee 4, another great website to try. 

I think I will probably end up paying the tolls to avoid unhappy passengers who will get a bit fed up if it is likely to add almost one extra days driving.

If I had more time I would not use the tolls and next year not probably go as far. Booked the holiday before realising the joy of motorhoming is not to rush everywhere and enjoy the sights on route. 

Had a nightmare driving to Le Grand Bornand in the winter, worked out the driving times on multimap and thought no problem, but too far to go for a week. The chidren and wife were mentally scared with all that driving in such a short space of time, especially as it was our first holiday in the van.


Great info and advice as usual.

Regards,

Richard.


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## 125073 (Jun 26, 2009)

Id stick to the back roads, no matter what....


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## becky (May 1, 2005)

*No more tolls for me!*

Every winter I travel to Marbella for xmas and new year, when I was working it was tolls all the way for sheer speed. As soon as I retired and had more time I thought it would be worth trying to do the trip off the toll road, I,ve done it for 3 years now and I find that the 1500 miles each way takes about 1/2 day longer and saves over £100 in tolls, thats more beer money for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just got back from a 2200 mile round trip to Prague and Vienna and I actually got a GO BOX in Austria (my camper is over 3.5 tons) for the motorway tolls, that was a waste of money I could easily have covered the whole trip without the toll roads. At least in Austria you only pay for what you use which was about 20 miles worth in our case. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.
Toll roads for me, stick the cruise control on sit back and let the van get on with it.
I hate traffic lights. roundabouts, traffic in citys and towns ugggg!.


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