# PETS- warning about misleading/incomplete info on DEFRA 2012



## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi

A sorry tale for us (due to a foolish lack of double checking) and a warning to others.

New rules from Jan 2012 as you know.

Travelling to France soon and 6 months ago checked new rules, DEFRA says 21 days must have elapsed after a Rabies vaccination before re-entering the UK, there is no wait at all if boosters up to date etc, just the tapeworm treatment prior to re entering UK.

Foolishly I believed my husband when he said the dog would need a booster (he usually takes him and deals with all that) so I arranged an appointment today only to discover that his boosters had lapsed. So any booster will be treated as an initial vaccination.

After I'd ticked him off for his schoolboy error I thought, oh well we have far more than 21 days before re entering the UK anyway.

WRONG

We do have far more than 21 days before re-entering the UK, BUT NOT 21 days before leaving the UK.

Apparently that is also a requirement, and it is EU rules realting to the country you are VISITING. If you are confused (I was) I have found the links below to prove it to you. In our case this relates to France but I guess all EU countries are the same, you'd need to check.

http://paris.angloinfo.com/countries/france/pettravel.asp#1

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/page.asp?id=46#2

there is absolutely no mention of this on DEFRA. No links, no advice to check on the appropriate countries website, etc. NOTHING that I can see anyway (no doubt someone will prove me wrong here...)

For us, I think we never needed to know this when our dog first travelled abroad with us because the length of time that you had to wait to have blood tests etc probably took care of that period automatically

So,

BEWARE and plan ahead. We now have to get our dog cared for for over a month. Luckily we have a son who can do it, but massive inconvenience all round.

Ruth


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

If the chunnel were used.....how would France know. There are no checks leaving the UK and no checks in France. Off the train straight onto the motorway. :wink: 

tony


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

Remind me, is it only in France that the pet passport is checked?

Cheeky thought I grant you, if a bit irresponsible... 

Anyway, sensible health and safety behaviour apart, if you've driven all the way from Cumbria you don't want to have to turn around again!!

Ruth


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

A question. OK - so you only have to wait 21 days after the injection, but what about the blood test to confirm the vaccine is in the system - how long is this taking to come back from the labs?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

What blood test check. :wink: Not anymore.  

tony


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> What blood test check. :wink: Not anymore.
> 
> tony


You need one for a first pet passport


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

bazzeruk said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> > What blood test check. :wink: Not anymore.
> ...


Do you? that's news to me and my vet, got my dog's first passport a few weeks ago, no mention of a blood test.


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

no blood test anymore. Check DEFRA website and you'll see

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/pet-owners/

Ruth

So, we remember...no checks on leaving UK and none on entering France...just on leaving France to return to the UK.

Who has risked it???!!!

Would you risk it??


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

I agree with Gemmy. There is absolutely no check on your dog going by Eurotunnel from UK to France. I don't even bother to mention the dog when booking on line.

Only check will be to make sure the gas is turned off.

If I was in your position I would go!

Mike


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

Mmmm

Travelled loads on tunnel but only once with the dog. Certainly no checks at all then.

Javea:

Don't they ask you on arrival if you have any pets?I don't mean to check passports just for taking money off you?!

Ruth


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Apologies are acceptable :lol: :wink: 

tony


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> Apologies are acceptable :lol: :wink:
> 
> tony


Someone has it wrong somewhere - extract from OP website link -

Getting an EU Pet Passport
The passport may only be issued by a licenced vet and it, and vaccinations, should be kept current by the vet.

Before issuing it, the vet will confirm that the animal:

Is identified by a microchip in the neck 
Has valid vaccines against rabies 
Has had a blood test to confirm the vaccine is in the system

Following these steps the vet can issue a certificate of health - the Pet Passport.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/official-vets/guidance/q&a-pet-travel-scheme.htm
Q 4 :wink: 
tony


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

GEMMY said:


> http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/official-vets/guidance/q&a-pet-travel-scheme.htm
> Q 4 :wink:
> tony


Very confusing - from the top ten tips page of the website you quoted

05. Section V: Six calendar
months MUST pass after the
date that a successful blood
sample was taken before
your pet may return to the
UK. Provided all rabies
boosters are kept up to date
and your pet remains within
PETS listed countries, the
blood test and waiting period
will not need to be
undertaken again.

I did make it clear that I was talking about initial pet passport requirements


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## LisaB (Apr 24, 2009)

bazzeruk said:


> GEMMY said:
> 
> 
> > http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/official-vets/guidance/q&a-pet-travel-scheme.htm
> ...


Pre-January 2012 requirements?!?


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

Pre-January 2012 requirements?!?[/quote]

Yes I think so.

And remember to check that what you are looking at applies to returning to the UK from an EU country as well as that it is referring to post Jan 2012 regulations. There will still be web pages out there that refer to old rules.

I am confident that a blood test is not required for post Jan 2012 and for EU. Either new passport or booster vaccs.

Ruth


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

No need for blood tests these are now optional


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

ruthiebabe said:



> Pre-January 2012 requirements?!?


Yes I think so.

And remember to check that what you are looking at applies to returning to the UK from an EU country as well as that it is referring to post Jan 2012 regulations. There will still be web pages out there that refer to old rules.

I am confident that a blood test is not required for post Jan 2012 and for EU. Either new passport or booster vaccs.

Ruth[/quote]

It was on the web site provided by Gemmy - perhaps the site hasn't been updated.

All I can say is that DEfRA say no blood test needed for initial passport, but the up to date French equivalent (from OP) says it is required for the passport.

I would never trust anything from DEFRA (bitter experiences)

Hopefully we will be using the tunnel so won't matter anyway,

Thaks for the info


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## LisaB (Apr 24, 2009)

ruthiebabe said:


> Pre-January 2012 requirements?!?


Yes I think so.

And remember to check that what you are looking at applies to returning to the UK from an EU country as well as that it is referring to post Jan 2012 regulations. There will still be web pages out there that refer to old rules.

I am confident that a blood test is not required for post Jan 2012 and for EU. Either new passport or booster vaccs.

Ruth[/quote]

My understanding and I will stand corrected is thus:

Our old dog Boris had vaccine, blood test and 6 month wait
Upon return it was the 24-48 rule for treatment

Newbies to France Charlie Bucket and Daisy Boo have just vaccine and chip with passport and now we have 1-5 days to acquire tapeworm treatment

Those are facts in my eyes, now for the naughty bit......
Chunnel or ferry whilst allowing you at paw print on yor boarding pass couldn't give a stuff whether you have the critter out bound at all!

Pre pet passport it is my understanding that if you emigrated with a critter you just went - its the getting back that counts.

I can only assume it still stands

Just all beware of the other unknown nasties our friends can get or there and take precautions for such as leishmaniasis etc


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Try this then :wink:

http://www.stmartinsvetclinic.com/PetPassports.html

tony


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

LisaB said:


> Pre-January 2012 requirements?!?


Leaflet Bazz quotes from is dated June 2010. Way pre-dates the new rules.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

http://www.stmartinsvetclinic.com/PetPassports.html

tony


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

*Re: PETS- warning about misleading/incomplete info on DEFRA*



ruthiebabe said:


> Hi
> 
> A sorry tale for us (due to a foolish lack of double checking) and a warning to others.
> 
> ...


Just to add some more confusion to this thread. From Jan 1st the UK harmonised with the rest of the EU over this issue in as much that pets had to be vaccinated against Rabies 21days before entering any other member state from another. IE going out from UK to eg France, Germany etc you should wait 21 days from vaccination before leaving UK.Also you would have to wait 21 days before returning to UK. In practice as everyone knows and has already been stated the only country that enforces this rule is the UK when returning because of our historic draconian anti rabies rules.
Therefore dont worry just go ,no one is going to check your pets or documentation anywhere except when you return to the UK and that is now much easier than it was before Jan 2012.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Take the dog !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tony


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

One question, though. Hypothetical, extreme, but possibly goes to the core of why we get our mutts vaccinated...to protect them or to comply with legislation.

That 21 days is the time the vaccination manufacturers say it takes for full immunity to be reached...I think. Would this mean that a dog that went to France after (say) 7 days and encountered a rabid dog/fox/whatever, that dog wouldn't have any immunity?

Just a thought...


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

I just checked prices on the chunnel and I see they want £15 each dog each way! 2 dogs = £60 

So do I not mention them when booking and see what happens at Folkestone on the way out? :wink:

and no way am I leaving them home as that's part of the reason for the MH and not going by bike. 

anybody done it?


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

ruthiebabe said:


> Mmmm
> 
> Travelled loads on tunnel but only once with the dog. Certainly no checks at all then.
> 
> ...


Sorry Ruth, only just picked up your post.

I book online, when you get to the check in booths go to an unmanned one which is for pre-booked crossings and the number plate recognition system kicks in, you go to the screen and confirm your details, ticket prints out for you to hang on your mirror and through you go to gas check.

Mike


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Sprinta said:


> I just checked prices on the chunnel and I see they want £15 each dog each way! 2 dogs = £60
> 
> So do I not mention them when booking and see what happens at Folkestone on the way out? :wink:
> 
> ...


I always book 2 single crossings, I can then change the return date or time if I need to online in France via wifi hotspot.

That way you pay the £30 fee on the return leg, so the cost is the same.
I don't mention the dog on the way out as no check is needed.

Done it loads of times, never had a problem.


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

Eurotunnel has changed its pricing, and want £15 either way. We came over on a single ticket last week and paid £30 for the 2 dogs.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Sorry but pet charge on tunnel is only applied on France to UK crossings , now £15 per pet.
If you fill in pet box for UK to France crossing booking when you get to the payment screen no charge is applied.
Reason is same booking screen is used for all bookings whether UK-France, France-UK or return crossings.
Charge is levied to cover extra costs incurred by Eurotunnel for adminsitration of pet passport procedure at Coquelles. I have to say that their facilities for this are excellent .


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

ruthiebabe said:


> no blood test anymore. Check DEFRA website and you'll see
> 
> http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/pet-owners/
> 
> ...


Im getting lost here --it does say Step 3 - Arrange a blood test - After your pet has been vaccinated, it must be blood tested to make sure the vaccine has given it a satisfactory level of protection against rabies. The blood sample must be taken at least 30 days after vaccination. The length of the waiting period before entry to the UK is three calendar months from the date your vet took the blood sample which led to a satisfactory test result. The three month waiting period will not apply if your pet was vaccinated and blood tested in the EU and issued with an EU pet passport before it went to an unlisted country.

I will carry on as before and then you cant go wrong. We have MEE's on MHF who had got the dates wrong on her dogs Passport and she had to spend 6 months with her dog until he could come back so I would hate anything to go wrong.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

GEMMY said:


> http://www.stmartinsvetclinic.com/PetPassports.html
> 
> tony


And this clearly says As from January 1st 2012 it is much simpler to take your pet abroad. A blood test is no longer be required and the passport will be valid for re-entry to the UK three weeks following vaccination for Rabies.

So muddled as you cant have a passport until you have had a blood test--as I say I will follow the old rules just to be sure.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

There certainly seems to be a lot of confusion here over something that has actually been made much simplier than it used to be when I had to get my pets passports.

The subject has been covered and clarified in many earlier posts in the Pets forum.

But for those whose still cant understand it why not check with your own Vet. If they are Authorised to issue Pet passports ( and most are nowadays in the UK ) then they should be able to explain the new rules to you. If they cant they shouldn't be doing the job.


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

BrianJP said:


> There certainly seems to be a lot of confusion here over something that has actually been made much simplier than it used to be when I had to get my pets passports.
> 
> The subject has been covered and clarified in many earlier posts in the Pets forum.
> 
> But for those whose still cant understand it why not check with your own Vet. If they are Authorised to issue Pet passports ( and most are nowadays in the UK ) then they should be able to explain the new rules to you. If they cant they shouldn't be doing the job.


Brian if you read my original post you would see that our personal confusion came because the DEFRA website makes no reference to the new EU rules clarified on the websites I subsequently found and posted links to. We were (and are) perfectly clear on the new rules (as posted on DEFRA) relating to re-entering the UK.

You kindly clarified that the "21 days to ENTER the EU" rule is also new from 1st Jan. This is my point. No where on DEFRA is this mentioned , not even advice to look it up.

Of course you can ask your vet. But if you've done your research well ahead of time on a government website you (foolishly) might assume that you know the score and not leave sufficient time.

Cheers, Ruth


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Yes, Eurotunneo has indeed changed their pricing.

I just went to their site and put in a one way trip from the UK to France and there was a £15 charge for the dog.

Has anyone actually travelled in 2012 to France tin Eurotunnel to see whether there are now checks, when last year there definitely were none?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Back for one month, all as usual, no checks until you check in for the return journey.

tony


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

ruthiebabe said:


> BrianJP said:
> 
> 
> > There certainly seems to be a lot of confusion here over something that has actually been made much simplier than it used to be when I had to get my pets passports.
> ...


I did read your post but lots of other people posting seem confused.
DEFRA obviously only show the current requirements. Earlier in the year they did make it clear they were new from 2012 Jan.
If you had been looking last summer and towards the end of the year you would have seen this
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2011/06/30/new-rules-pet-passports/

and also many posts on the pets forum here related to this subject.

Gemmy yes I travelled 8 weeks ago and 3 weeks ago to France and no checks are made at Folkestone and no charges levied . Its worth declaring you have pets though when booking as when they do the gas check the sniffer dogs are often nearby and they can take great interest in your vehicle if you have dogs onboard that can delay you as it did for me once.
If you dont believe there is no charge outbound do a trial online booking entering pets in the box and see what the total cost is !


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> Yes, Eurotunneo has indeed changed their pricing.
> 
> I just went to their site and put in a one way trip from the UK to France and there was a £15 charge for the dog.
> 
> Has anyone actually travelled in 2012 to France tin Eurotunnel to see whether there are now checks, when last year there definitely were none?


Yes I put same in. Can the person who travels from UK without paying clarify, I am thinking that you can only do that if you don't declare your dog and book 2 singles, one with and one without.

Personally I would just pay my dues, my query was more about vaccine waiting times and it evolved into a discussion about the fact that no one checks the dog or its passport on entry to France


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

You definately have to pay, as Brian says, I just did a trial booking


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Apologies if I have caused any confusion by saying there was no outgoing pet charge at Eurotunnel.I have just rechecked myself and they are now charging.
All I can say is that 3 weeks and 8 weeks ago they didn't and I declared 2 dogs.
Still at the end of the day its not costing anymore than before as they used to charge £30 for Calais-Folkestone crossing only.
I have sent Eurotunnel and Email asking for an explanation of why they are now charging.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

After visiting the vet this morning, I asked about pet passports, from Defra they are not allowed to issue a passport until 21 days have elapsed after innoculation, this then obviates the risk of infringing EU rules about entering any European country until 21 days have passed.

tony


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

So the moral of the story is

If you're getting a first passport you're okay timewise

If you've got one

MAKE SURE YOU DON'T LAPSE THE BOOSTERS!

If you lapse the boosters you need 21 days before travelling to EU


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Two things here

1. Why should DEFRA tell you what the regulations are entering France or any other country UK apart. Its a UK government department, not a French/German/Dutch/Spanish one. However the Jan 2012 change was to equalize all travel and entry rules EU wide, including UK Ireland, eg, even crossing the land border (heaven help those who live next to the border) so you should be able to work that out and the DEFRA website does make it clear that the rules are the same EU wide. You can leave UK, but you cannot enter the new country if it is EU (although they are not checking UK IRL travel yet! or Come to IOM, no restriction or vaccination requirements at all.

2. Are you sure you are time expired and require to start again. Most rabies vaccines administered in UK actually last 2 or 3 years. It is the manufacturers dates that are important. Re check them. NB if you live in France their domestic rules require annual boosters for French pets however long the vaccine is dated for. Maybe the vet is just trying it on with annual reminders, ours does!


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

GEMMY said:


> After visiting the vet this morning, I asked about pet passports, from Defra they are not allowed to issue a passport until 21 days have elapsed after inoculation, this then obviates the risk of infringing EU rules about entering any European country until 21 days have passed.
> 
> tony


Not quite what the rules say. As the date of vaccination is given in the passport the vet should be able to issue at time of vaccination. The not issuing for 21 days is a professional safeguard, I think

And this is nothing to do with the new rules but all to do with keeping up to date.

Think on. If the rules had not changed in 2012 what you would have to do. You would have had an invalid booster expired passport and you would have had to have had a Rabies vaccination for pooch, wait a month, take blood test, then wait for result before a new passport could be issued and then you could have left UK, but what about coming back? How long was that wait? 6 months?


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