# Dog deaths linked to woodland



## patp

is the title of an article in Dogs Today this month. Just thought I would pass it on.

_An investigation into an area of woodland near Sherwood Forest is being carried out after at least three dogs died and five others were taken ill after walking there.
Vets believe poisoning is the most likely cause but said the cause could be natural. Owners have been advised to keep their dogs on a lead in Haywood Oaks, Bidworth Woods, Sherwood Pines and Thieves Wood. Natural England, which is carrying out the tests, said investiagations were ongoing, but searches of the area had not revealed any obvious cause._

Pat


----------



## Vennwood

Hi Pat,

Do you know what the symptoms were? Our collie was there a few weeks ago and has been ill ever since. He has lost almost half his weight, is constantly sick with extremely bad rear end habits.

The Vets are struggling to find an answer even after blood tests, scans, exploratory operations (not to mention the fact we are well over £1K worse off)


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers

Rhododhendrons (apologies for the spelling gardeners! - my fingers are clean, not green!) have been well known to poison dogs, giving them those symptoms.

I do know of someone who has rotties, one died and another was very sick from the ones in their garden.


----------



## mickyc

This was hot news as you can imagine around North Notts with the areas mentioned above within a few miles of our town

The latest news, was that all the tests came back as negative with regards to poisons etc. The "experts" have put the outbreaks down to natural causes "ticks and mites" being the most likely culprits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8330525.stm


----------



## Vennwood

In our case the VET has ruled out ticks and mites but not yet ruled out poisons


----------



## sallytrafic

Have the processional caterpillars made it that far North?


----------



## patp

So sorry to hear about your Collie, Vennwood. It must be so worrying for you. I have reproduced the article as it appeared in Dogs Today. This is a monthly publication so it will have been going on for some time in order to make it into their pages.

With so many dogs involved it is unlikely to be a plant because they would all have to eat the same species.

Could it be mushrooms/toadstools?

Could it be a virus? I know the vets local to Sandringham say there is a Sandringham bug.

Let's hope it is not malicous :evil:


----------



## Vennwood

Hi Pat,
thanks for the kind words.

Yes it is worrying. Can't say about mushrooms but the VET says it isn't caused by parasites. He wasn't the heaviest of collies to start with but he has gone from 23kgs down to 13kgs in just over 3 weeks. He has gone from being a very fussy eater to a complete scavenger and can eat for England. Unfortunately for him the VET has him on a strict diet that isn't filling him so he hunts for anything to eat.

The exploratory shows inflamed blisters on his abdomen and we are waiting for the biopsy results to come back to determine the next step


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

I walk my dogs in the woods at Clumber on a weekend.
Until this is cleared up I shall keeep away.

Please keep us informed And I hope your dog recovers.

Dave p


----------



## ChesterfieldHooligan

Hi we are sorry to hear about your dog we hope it improves soon, I fish at Sherwood fishires and there are lots of dog owners walking their dogs ther dose not seem a problem I will ask the gamekeeper when I see him it might throw some light on it  
Brian and Marion


----------



## locovan

In Spain the Hunters lay poisened meat to kill Foxes and Rabbits ---is someone doing that in the forest here??

Sorry just seen the paper report that Poisen isnt the answer --Frank I wonder if the Caterpillars are getting here if so we should look at Pine trees because thats where they nest.


----------



## Hezbez

Well this is very interesting.

My old collie was very ill as well 2 weeks ago. Severe vomiting and diarrhoea and lost a lot of weight she could ill afford.
The symptoms were very much like poisoning, but she had never been out of sight to eat anything dodgy (and she's pretty fussy).

This is unusual for her as she normally has a great constitution and I can count on one hand the number of times she has vomited in her 15 years.

It may be totally disconnected as we are up in Scotland, but she had been walked in wooded areas around the timing of her taking ill.
Maybe it is connected to a virus thats spreading, or pehaps there is some sort of funghi or similar that appears at this time of year??

Thankfully she seems much better now, but still very thin, which at her age (15) I think she'll struggle to put back on


----------



## Broom

Hi All

Mitsi been sick for the last 10 days vomiting, but not really unwell, still did our walks, just thought it was something going about.

best Regards
broom


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8284476.stm

News reports quotes weedkiller! How or where this has been confirmed who knows!

Also just done a search of likely culprits, most need to be eaten or chewed, though some just need to be brushed past as in dogs' mecury. They all give the symptoms.

Holly, Ivy, Dog Daisy/Fennel and Garlic along with certain types of Fern although the common ferns we have like bracken are not poisoness to dogs. Interestingly, they all contain the same chemical - methylxanthine, which is the same found in chocolate (which is why that is poisonous to dogs too!)


----------



## neilanddot

Dear all
The symptoms of continuing weight loss is similar to that of a friend's horse which was literally wasting away and dying. A university vet school had no answer and fortunately someone said check out "Lyme's Disease", this did not come up with blood tests but our friend was desperate and told the vets to treat as if Lyme. This is a tick born problem. It attacks humans as well. I understand from another friend that it exists in Scotland. The treatment is antibiotics and anti-inflammatory drugs, I believe, I cannot check as our friend is away at the moment. But it worked! The horse is back to full working fitness some 9 months later. Worth trying if nothing else is working. 
Dot and Neil


----------



## emmbeedee

Google "lyme disease in dogs".
Lots of info. on there. Very prevalent in North America, can affect humans also. First identified at West Lyme in Connecticut, hence the name.


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers

neilanddot said:


> Dear all
> The symptoms of continuing weight loss is similar to that of a friend's horse which was literally wasting away and dying. A university vet school had no answer and fortunately someone said check out "Lyme's Disease", this did not come up with blood tests but our friend was desperate and told the vets to treat as if Lyme. This is a tick born problem. It attacks humans as well. I understand from another friend that it exists in Scotland. The treatment is antibiotics and anti-inflammatory drugs, I believe, I cannot check as our friend is away at the moment. But it worked! The horse is back to full working fitness some 9 months later. Worth trying if nothing else is working.
> Dot and Neil


With horses, ferns and bracken cause this, so if the horse is one that is always grazing round the edges, then that may be the cause. We had a horse that would do that years ago - plenty of feed in the feild, but preferred the other side of the fence! lol!


----------



## greygit

Hi All.
Any up-to-date news on this subject?
Gary


----------



## Vennwood

No real progress from me

The position is that our collie is now down to 11kgs (should be 25kgs) He has had X-rays and an exploratory at a cost of £2K. He is currently on 60mg of Steroids daily - all to no avail. The vet says they can't find the problem and would like to do another exploratory op however all parties feel he isn't strong enough to endure the trauma.

Our insurance has rejected our claim quoting that in 2004 we mentioned to the Vet that he had diorrhea and so they are treating it as a "previous condition" even though we have a letter from the Vet stating it is not related.

We feel we are coming to the end as we can't (and don't want to) see him suffering any longer. Until recently he appeared quite lively but has now become listless.


----------



## patp

So sorry to hear your dog is no better. It must be heartbreaking for you to watch and feel so helpless.

I would fight the insurance company. I know you don't need the stress right now but if your vet has written that it is an unrelated condition then they should listen. You might have to get a second opinion to back up your claim (in case you and your vet are in cohorts :roll: ) using a vet recommended by them.

Would you like to name and shame them?

Wishing you all the best.

Pat


----------



## greygit

I would fight the insurance company. I know you don't need the stress right now but if your vet has written that it is an unrelated condition then they should listen. You might have to get a second opinion to back up your claim (in case you and your vet are in cohorts :roll: ) using a vet recommended by them.

Would you like to name and shame them?

Wishing you all the best.

Pat[/quote]

Yes, please name them, as I have been considering getting insurance for our lurcher as he has injured himself yet again and at the moment we are in Portugal.....very expensive vet fees.
Hope it all works out for you.
Gary


----------



## Dooney

So sorry to hear about your dogs condition.

It is hard enough dealing with a sick animal without the added stress of your insurer declining your claim.

I would definitely not accept their decision. Diarrhoea is a symptom of a problem not a condition in its own right. It can be caused by a number of things so I would dispute their logic that it is a “pre-existing condition”.

I would write a letter headed Formal Complaint and send with the letter from your vets confirming it is unrelated. 

As insurers are regulated by the FSA they will have to respond to you in a set time period and log it as a complaint, which is subject to scrutiny.

Put in your letter that if it is not resolved to your satisfaction you will take your complaint to the Insurance Ombudsman. They are very helpful and this is a free service to you. You can get information on their website.

The insurer will do everything to avoid this course of action.

I wish you good luck with your dog and hope things improve very soon for you.

Regards

Lorna


----------



## Vennwood

Thanks for all your thoughts - it is very upsetting just watching the poor lad.

I don't mind naming the insurance company and hope others will take note.

We are insured through the Caravan Club - we have never claimed from then on any policy and yet we use them for MH insurance, and in the past have used Red Pennant, we have booked holidays through them for over 30 years.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

I sympathise with your plight.
we have 5 dogs and used to take them most weekends to Clumber park.
Since your OP we have shyed away.
It is sad to see our friends in trouble and pain.
I would try with the aid of your vets letter as evidence to possibly take action in the small claims court.


Insurance companies look for the simplest thing so as not to pay out.
A woman reversed into margarets car on a main road. Simple she did not look in her mirrors.
She disputes witness statement so her insurance will not pay out.
Court action is inevitab;e

dave p


----------



## Briarose

Vennwood said:


> Thanks for all your thoughts - it is very upsetting just watching the poor lad.
> 
> I don't mind naming the insurance company and hope others will take note.
> 
> We are insured through the Caravan Club - we have never claimed from then on any policy and yet we use them for MH insurance, and in the past have used Red Pennant, we have booked holidays through them for over 30 years.


My thoughts are with you, it must be so upsetting not knowing what has caused this.


----------



## Vennwood

*End of the road*

Just to let you know Chase had to be put to sleep today
He had dropped in weight to just over 9kgs and was not responding to anything

Sad day


----------



## zulurita

I am so sorry  

At least you know Chase is no longer suffering.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

We really feel for you. Its true that a mans best friend is his dog. They never let you down, they never lie to you, they just give.
One of daughters Huskies has been ill for the past 7 months, the outcome of hundreds of ££££ of tests is that the vet thinks she has got irritable bowl syndrome. And something else that i cannot spell, but she could pass it on to puppies and human babies.


Please think of all the good times you had with your Chase and maybe we will soon seee you with a new friend.

Dave p


----------



## locovan

Im really sorry to hear the sad news.
Have they found out what caused it and are there any more sick dogs in the area.
You have been through a very bad time and I hope you get over it xx


----------



## patp

So sorry to hear your sad news.
Many years ago we lost a dog to an unexplained illness and it still bothers me to this day.
You helped Chase at the time he needed you most. I am sure he is very grateful.

Pat


----------



## kennyboy

We are really sorry to hear your news. We also feel very sad as we lost our little jack russell Harry in similar circumstances. We still don't know what he died of.
All the best
Ken


----------



## relay

So sorry to hear you've lost Chase.
thinking of you
-H


----------



## greygit

So sorry to hear your news, we had to make that decision last year...heart breaking isn’t it?

Mind you our other dog was moping so much we got a rescued lurcher so she would eat again and it worked out fine as the new dog is a joy. 
Gary


----------



## Briarose

Hi I am so sorry to hear your news, I was hoping that somehow Chase would have improved.........my thoughts are with you I know how heartbreaking it is.

I am really scared now to book any sites with woodland that might affect dogs.


----------



## patp

I am posting on this thread rather than raise a new one because many people were following it.

The headline in "Dogs Today" this time is "Badger bait danger". 
quote:
The Labrador Lifeline Trust has warned of the danger posed to dogs by an alarming new trend in badger baiting. One Labrador in Somerset has died after ingesting paracetemol found inside a tasty trap. Foods like sausages have been laced with the drug and left outside badger setts in and attempt to draw out and kill the animals.
Unfortunately, the food is also a magnet for dogs. The LLT reports that the traps are widespread throughout the country, and advises visiting the vet immediately should you suspect that your dog has eaten anything poisonous.


----------



## locovan

2009-11-13, 17:18:32 In Spain the Hunters lay poisoned meat to kill Foxes and Rabbits ---is someone doing that in the forest here?? 

So Pat My comment might not be to far out and since then we have found out that the Oak trees have caterpillars in them that are poison and there are a lot of Oak Trees in that area.
It just goes to show we must be vigilant with our dogs when out walking them.
Its so sad when they get ill and die.


----------



## eddievanbitz

Vennwood said:


> Thanks for all your thoughts - it is very upsetting just watching the poor lad.
> 
> I don't mind naming the insurance company and hope others will take note.
> 
> We are insured through the Caravan Club - we have never claimed from then on any policy and yet we use them for MH insurance, and in the past have used Red Pennant, we have booked holidays through them for over 30 years.


A very sad tale, and I read the post like others expecting a better outcome.

Now that you have lost Chase, why not give a little more detail and a contact name or better email contact of the person that you were dealing with and let us all write/email and give the insurers our opinion of them, explaing how many potential customers they have lost through their apparently crass decision.

I know that you wont but I hope that you feel better soon

Eddie


----------



## Vennwood

eddievanbitz said:


> A very sad tale, and I read the post like others expecting a better outcome.
> 
> Now that you have lost Chase, why not give a little more detail and a contact name or better email contact of the person that you were dealing with and let us all write/email and give the insurers our opinion of them, explaing how many potential customers they have lost through their apparently crass decision.
> 
> I know that you wont but I hope that you feel better soon
> 
> Eddie


I'd better not say too much just yet as I am still exchanging letters with them.

The real worry for me is that the Vets (as well as the insurance company) are adamant that this was not caused by Chase picking up poison or anything. Now normally I would have accepted that however it is the immediate dismissal and refusal to even discuss this even though there are several owners in our area that have experienced similar symptoms. Thankfully most, but not all, have since fully recovered. Surely this can't be a coincidence.

My whole case now evolves around the fact that the insurers are saying that as Chase had a bout of diorrhea back in 2004 (in history notes) and apparently when I took him for a booster a year later they say I mentioned then that he had an occasional bout ( I have no recollection of this and there is nothing in the case history notes to back that up - I have a copy) and that this is the basis of their rejection. Please tell me of a dog that has NEVER had an occasional bout of diorrhea. No I'll expand that - tell be of any dog or HUMAN that hasn't had an occasional bout of diorrhea.

They also say that they have spoken to the Vet and (here is my main frustration) he won't return my calls or speak to me as I would like to know what he has told them. The receptionist is saying they can't get involved as they "do a lot of business through them"

We have asked for a copy of all the evidence they used to base their decision on and once recieved, I'll take it from there.

I will let this forum know the outcome


----------



## locovan

So what are they saying--that if your dog has diarrhea or that your dog dies of anything that he has had in the past, your not insured 
That sounds out of order.
As you say most dogs have a bout now and again.
Mine might when he eats chicken.
Good luck with all this as you don't need the stress on top of the sadness of loosing Chase.


----------



## locovan

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/about_us/contact_us/

Contact Natural England as they are investigating the many deaths of dogs in Sherwood Forest


----------



## greygit

" They also say that they have spoken to the Vet and (here is my main frustration) he won't return my calls or speak to me as I would like to know what he has told them. The receptionist is saying they can't get involved as they "do a lot of business through them"..."

I would write to the local news paper re, the Vets attitude as I'm sure his customers should be his main priority.
Gary


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Typical of insurance companies.
They take your money and try their best not to pay out.

When you or the risk gets older the premiums rise.

We have five dogs but no medical insurance.
One of the 13 year old shelties has arthritis and needs a product that insurance would not pay for anyway.

I sincerely hope you get a result. To lose Chase was bad enough , but to be ignored by the vet is unacceptable to many.

Dave p


----------



## patp

Why don't you ask your vet if you can have a copy of your dog's records. You might be able to see a discrepancy in them that needs sorting out.

When Gypsy was referred to a specialist practice I picked up her medical history from my vet to take to the new vet. I read it and noticed a glaring error (one of the vets had written that Gypsy was lame on the wrong leg). Now that, to an insurance company (she was not insured) would have been enough for them to refuse to pay out if the lameness was on a previous site of lameness.

Hope you sort something out.

Pat


----------



## locovan

Why dont you go to the Vets and sit there and refuse to go until you have seen the records.
Its almost like he is in cahoots with the insurance company as surely he is out of order.

Going to the local paper is a good idea and then you might find other people with a complaint----then a picture might grow of just what is going on. :wink: 
Good Luck


----------



## Vennwood

locovan said:


> Why dont you go to the Vets and sit there and refuse to go until you have seen the records.
> Its almost like he is in cahoots with the insurance company as surely he is out of order.
> 
> Going to the local paper is a good idea and then you might find other people with a complaint----then a picture might grow of just what is going on. :wink:
> Good Luck


I have his records, had them for ages. They don't mention anything about past illness or anything remotely similar. According to his records he has never been ill before last October. That's my problem. We are currently exchanging letters so I'll keep my mouth closed in case it prejudices my position.

Thanks for all your kind words


----------



## patp

Sorry I have just re read your earlier posts.

I used to work in a vets so have some knowledge. Insurance companies will refuse to pay out on pre existing conditions BUT they must have evidence to back up the fact that it is a pre existing condition. It seems to me that they are on very shaky ground here unless there is something the vet is not telling you. The bout of diahorrea in 2004 was too long ago to be called a pre existing condition. If there have been others then that is a different story. They will then be within their rights to refuse to pay out unless you have a lifetime policy. Of course if the bout of diahorrea was not disclosed (and who would) they may have a case for non disclosure?

I think you have a very strong case, on the known facts, to take the insurance company to the ombudsman. They entered into a contract with you and they have not fulfilled their part.

Good Luck

Pat


----------



## Vennwood

After taking the insurers to their own complaints department (remember this started in Feb) I am pleased to say that we have been given an apology and a full reimbursement of our Vets fees.

The moral here seems to be to persist and point out the facts, backed up with documentary evidence and you will be rewarded.

Still feel very sad as we miss our dog terribly.


----------



## goldi

Evening all .


there was situation at ogden reservoir in haifax some tim ago .




norm


----------



## Briarose

Hi does anyone know what the current situation is with some of these sites ?

Vennwood I am pleased for you that you have at least had an apology etc as you say though no compensation for the loss of your dog............they are such a huge part of the family.


----------



## greygit

Really pleased you got justice at last.

Have you thought of giving a rescued dog a home? It's so rewarding to take in a frightened and in some cases abused dog and with love and affection see it blossom into a loving member of the family . We take in Greyhounds and Lurchers but all the breeds are out there.

Gary


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Ẁell done,
Insurers do not like people who continue to persue claims. They hope we will forget it and go away.

We are twelve months int a motoring clain and told it may be another .
Other party has an independant witness whose statement says she was on the scene. A total fabrication.

The solicitors fees will be more than the original claim.

Dave p


----------



## patp

So glad you won your case but sad that you have a gap in your life.

Pat


----------



## rickndog

Re the original post on this thread, it seems that a similar outbreak of illness amongst dogs being exercised in part of Sherwood Forest is occurring again.

See www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11392764


----------



## rickndog

Looks as if the problem might be heading further north across Notts towards Clumber Park.

See www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11404124

Motorhomers staying at the Clumber Park site with their dogs might be better exercising them in open areas or keeping them on leads in woodland. To be fair, I've been to the area with my dog recently and had no problems, but am following this advice for the next few weeks.


----------



## Briarose

I wonder does the problem seem to be worse at this time of year.

Our Son suggested we went to Clumber Park earlier this month, but I knew there were problems so said a def NO.


----------



## rickndog

Hi Briarose, locally there's quite a lot of speculation as to the cause of the problem. It seems to be very specific to the September/October period when there are changes in humidity, etc. 

One local vet thinks it may be linked to fungi. Other people wonder if it's due to dogs scavenging berries, etc, ticks or something carried and spread by the indigenous wildlife. To date, the view is it's more likely to be a naturally caused phenomenon rather than a man made one.

Whatever the cause, it seems that those dogs affected can suffer horrendously if vet treatment is delayed.


----------



## Briarose

Thanks for the reply, it is really worrying for all of us dog owners.


----------



## patp

On The Whippet Forum a member posted that they had seen their dog with a red and white spotted fungus in its mouth. The dog was running around playfully as though the fungus was a ball.

Just made me wonder if other dogs may have picked up something similar to play with it?

The dog in this case was taken to the vet where it had £300 worth of treatment to empty its stomach etc.


----------



## Briarose

Hi Peter Levy on the BBC programme Look North, has just been reporting on this very topic.

You can watch tonights programme on http://www.bbc.co.uk/looknorthhull/content/articles/2006/12/30/peter_levy_feature.shtml

I am def staying away from these sites until the route of the illness is traced.


----------



## rickndog

Forestry Commission now seeking experts for advice.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11419463

Has anyone knowledge of other areas affected besides Sherwood Forest locations and Sandringham?

Whilst the number of dogs affected is probably a small proportion of the total number of dogs exercised in these areas, it's still worrying. I wonder if there's a potential risk of spread from dog to dog especially as few people clean up after their dog in woodland areas.

Also wonder if the problem is having an impact on bookings at campsites near these locations?


----------



## rickndog

A second dog has now died in Notts.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11441978

Frequently asked questions on the outbreak can be viewed at

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11438369


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

In this weeks Retford Times it is reported that a spaniel has died and two others of the same owner are ill after a visit to Clumber Park
They were from Lincoln.

Dave p


----------



## locovan

rickndog said:


> Forestry Commission now seeking experts for advice.
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11419463
> 
> Has anyone knowledge of other areas affected besides Sherwood Forest locations and Sandringham?
> 
> Whilst the number of dogs affected is probably a small proportion of the total number of dogs exercised in these areas, it's still worrying. I wonder if there's a potential risk of spread from dog to dog especially as few people clean up after their dog in woodland areas.
> 
> Also wonder if the problem is having an impact on bookings at campsites near these locations?


Rickndog you could be so right and its a wonder that someone hasn't tested the dog poo laying around to see if anything is in it that other dogs are finding as they sniff.
Maybe owners shouldn't let their dogs off lead in the area to stop them sniffing other dogs poo or the poo of wild animals until this problem has been resolved.


----------



## rickndog

The suspicion is now that blue-green algae may be implicated in some of the cases of mysterious dog deaths:-

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11484242

Definitive scientific proof is still lacking - perhaps because the dogs have been treated at different vet practices. Some will have been outside the Notts area. Perhaps local vets both in Notts and neighbouring counties,
might collaborate in trying to establish incidence of the problem, comparing case histories and agree on a reporting and clinical testing system which might lead to establishing the cause. Certainly such a system is probably too late this year, but would be useful to have in place next year should there be a similar outbreak.


----------



## Vennwood

It was confirmed by local Vets in Retford today that there are now 8 confirmed deaths as a result of dogs being walked in Clumber Park and Sherwood forest areas with around 20+ still suffering illnesses. Our neighbour's dog looks like becoming the 9th victim


----------



## GEMMY

Another take on the story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322872/Dog-owners-warned-mystery-disease-kills-pets.html

tony


----------



## greygit

Vennwood said:


> It was confirmed by local Vets in Retford today that there are now 8 confirmed deaths as a result of dogs being walked in Clumber Park and Sherwood forest areas with around 20+ still suffering illnesses. Our neighbour's dog looks like becoming the 9th victim


With this many dogs dying I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested an autopsy…..or have they? 
Gary


----------



## Vennwood

greygit said:


> With this many dogs dying I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested an autopsy…..or have they?
> Gary


Don't know of any. When our dog died I did ask the question but the Vets wanted over £1000 plus analysis costs and as the insurance company (at the time) had decided not to pay out we declined as we were already £000's out of pocket and we didn't know it was affecting so many other dogs. We were told ours was an isolated case.


----------



## wakk44

The Animal Health Trust is carrying out their own investigations into dog deaths after walking in woodland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11615756

The problems seem to be in Notts and Norfolk,I always keep ours on a lead and don't let them eat or drink anything when on a walk,I advise dog owners to do the same until the cause has been found.


----------

