# Leisure Batteries, lead or gel



## scotsman

I have 2 x110amp leisure batteries, 18 months old and not holding a charge for very long

going to renew them and add another one at the same time but can anyone recomend what type of battery to fit, gel or wet cell type.
if it makes any difference i do alot of wild camping and rely on 12v power


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## DABurleigh

Wet.


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## teemyob

*Batteries*

Hello there,

I run 3x110ah wet off 2 x 80w solar, No problems whatsoever. I looked at Gel batteries but the price was way over that of wet. I managed to get ours for £45 each inc VAT.

Trev.


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## scotsman

thanks for the replies, but can i say the cheapest wet leisure 110a batt i could find is £72 +vat? where teemyob did u buy for £45.

many thanks


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## teemyob

*Batteries*



scotsman said:


> thanks for the replies, but can i say the cheapest wet leisure 110a batt i could find is £72 +vat? where teemyob did u buy for £45.
> 
> many thanks


Hello There,

Well we only bought one, the other two were bought for us by our Friends we took on Holiday last year as a thank you. Their Son works at a garage and must of got a discount.

However, we bought the other one from Campbells In Garstang £49. Go Outdoors had them for £59 both prices include VAT. I believe the price of lead has increased dramticaly, bet the scrap battery price has not gone up mind. The ones we bought before that were from Tanya, we were in Wales and were able to collect from the owners house, normaly it is delivery only.

Current Internet Prices

Our Very Own Outdoorbits Numax 110AH £68.99 less 5 % Discount
Tanya Batteries £68.99 Numax 110AH
Ebay £64.99 Trust Orange 110AH 2 Year Warranty


OutDoorBits Link
Ebay Link

I will keep looking I am sure there are more

Trev


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## teemyob

*Good Deals*

Try these

Atlas Leisure
Nuttall St, Manchester, Lancashire M16 9JA 
Tel: 0161 872 4755

I beleive their prices on batteries are extremly hard to beat.

Trev.


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## premiermotorhomes

Pros and Cons;

Wet - Cost effective, but require maintence

Gel - Expensive, slightly shorter life, but can't leak and are maintainence free (check to see if your charger supports gel)

AGM - Is cost effective like a wet battery, but has the same benefits as Gel.


Another option is Elecsol wet batteries, which are lighter and maintenence free.


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## DABurleigh

My wet batteries are at the 3 year point, cheap, effective and maintenance free. It's merely a question of how you charge them, no whether someone has managed to convince you you need expensive gel.

Dave


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## jack01

Hi

Has anyone any knowledge of Elecsol batteries ?

They are supposed to have a 5 year warranty and are lighter than other makes. The price per 110 amp battery is about £100 I think unless someone has heard of a better deal.

Jack01


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## maddie

Hi I do not remember who posted on here but it was a very interesting post from a battery maker on all types of batterys pros and cons.It ended up saying wets were far better on cost effetiveness
terry


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## LazyRover

After studying the US RV scene for a couple of years, it seems that Trojan T105 (225ah) wet batteries have an excellent reputation.

Treated correctly, they can last longer that 10 years.

Link

Might be a little more expensive than you are willing to pay but the cost per ah is better than standard leisure battery.

Rgds


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## 104208

*A Deep Cycle Battery*

Its worth paying the extra for a deep cycle type battery. such as
a Varta battery. they last a 1000 cycles Up to 80% dischargeable capacity per cycle. would cost about £130. but last 3 times longer.
http://www.tayna.co.uk/95752-Varta-Leisure-Battery-P3638.html
ive had one for 9 years.

are you sure your current batteries are damaged?
Put a load on the battery and then check the voltage. if it falls quickly and does down in 2s, i.e, 12 to 10v then a cell is damaged. if you put an inverter on the battery and plug in a 100watt bult it will draw about 8amps. the test it. if its about 12v constant its prob ok. 
to check if its being charged, run the motorhome engine, put a metter on the terminals and it should be well over 13 v. if its the same with or without the engine, then either a fuse has gone in the battery or engine compartment. Or your change over relay is not switching because the coil is damaged. keep your battery topped up and terminals clean and dry if you can. try not to full discharge it if you can.

Mike


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## maddie

http://www.batteryfaq.org/
terry


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## clodhopper2006

My understanding of gel batteries are that they are extremely advantageous if you intend inverting your motorhome occasionally. If you are like the majority of motorhomers who keep all four wheels firmly attached to the ground then it is probable that wet will do you as well as gel and you will keep some dosh in your wallet.

~Bob


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## DABurleigh

Thank goodness someone else is saying that now 

Edit - typo


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## Jean-Luc

Hi Scotsman, have a read of this


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## teemyob

*Pointy*

Interesting reading!

I had never given Traction or Semi-Traction batteries a thought!

Who is the Salesman and Author?

Trev.


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## peedee

I'd go for wet every time for the reasons already stated In my experience they also die gracefully. You usually become aware, as you have, that they are not performing but a gel battery when it fails will just leave you dead and without any power.

peedee


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## mangothemadmonk

I have two 85amp gels on-board. I have been considering up-grading to 110s as we do a lot of wilding.

As I understand it Gels never need to be tested as they are sealed.

The probs I would have is that my batts are under the driver and passenger seats and require lifting these off (hernia time) to test if I had wet batteries. 

How often do "wet" battery owners test the electrolyte in their wet batteries (or is it how long is a piece of string). I have an 85w solar panel and usually leave the MH plugged in but on a timer to come on at night in the winter when at home parked up.

Johnny F


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## maddie

Hi I used to check mine every few mths but now only once or twice a year as yet never needed to top up,but that could be down to 3 stage charger ? which is (I am sure)kinder.I used to top up starter batt once a yr when charged with normal booster type but now 3 stage from aldi/netto and that has not been topped up either :lol normal wets )
terry
edit forgot to say on charge 80% of time on drive


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## oldenstar

Just this minute returned from Van Bitz where, amongst other things, I had a 125A Elecsol Battery fitted, at a cost of £104.68 plus VAT.

Apart from the capacity advantage this battery weighs 28.5kg, is 344 x 172 x 235mm, so is relatively light and small for its size. (Happen to have the blurb here)

It is supposed to complete over 1000 deep discharge cycles, and, money where its mouth is, is guaranteed for 5 years.

BTW can only concur with other comments re Van Bitz-they are efficient, pleasant, and yes, the free drinks go down well. Only disadvantage is that it is linked with spending money.

HTH
Paul


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## JockandRita

Hi all,

I am a bit of an "Elecsol" fan. >>See here<< and >>Here<<

I swear by them...............and I've still got that one in the garage, on the occasional trickle charge. :wink:

Jock.


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## mangothemadmonk

Do Elecsol batteries need checking or are they sealed? Do they need venting?

Cheers.

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

They are wet and should be vented. Whether you charge them to gas, use electrolyte and thereby need maintenance is quite independent; I don't.

Dave


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## oldenstar

> Do Elecsol batteries need checking or are they sealed? Do they need venting?


According to 'blurb' they are maintenance free to European DIN specs.

Re venting I defer to experts, but they claim no sulphation.
HTH
Paul


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## JockandRita

mangothemadmonk said:


> Do Elecsol batteries need checking or are they sealed? Do they need venting?
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Johnny F


Hi Johnny,

Any Elecsols I have had, have needed topping up regulary. However, those on the MH, only need topping up about once a year. This is probably due to the multi stage charger on the MH. I too have a large solar panel topping up the charge all the time.

The one in the garage on trickle, needs topping up every few weeks.

I don't know if Elecsol do gel or not.

Jock.


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## mangothemadmonk

I just like the idea of maintenance free, fit and forget. Will wait for the gels to die and then have a good think.

Thanks you lot :wink: :wink: 

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

"I just like the idea of maintenance free, fit and forget."

Me too, so I bought wet 

And it has the ADDITIONAL benefit of throwing less money down the drain.

Dave


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## mangothemadmonk

DABurleigh said:


> so I bought wet
> And it has the ADDITIONAL benefit of throwing less money down the drain.
> Dave


So you never check your wet batteries then? Or are you saying that you don't need to check them?

Or are they in a place where you can get at them easily?

As I stated, mine are under the front seats and wouldn't like to keep removing the seats just to check the levels.

If you have any ideas on how I could get over that then please let me know before I go and buy gels.

Cheers.

Johnny F


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## maddie

maddie said:


> Hi I used to check mine every few mths but now only once or twice a year as yet never needed to top up,but that could be down to 3 stage charger ? which is (I am sure)kinder.I used to top up starter batt once a yr when charged with normal booster type but now 3 stage from aldi/netto and that has not been topped up either :lol normal wets )
> terry
> edit forgot to say on charge 80% of time on drive


Hi read this again :lol: save your cash :lol: 
terry


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## mangothemadmonk

Hi Terry. Would I have to have a 3 stage charger fit? If so thats an extra cost as well.

As I have solar which trickle the batts during the day would this affect the amount of times I would need to check?

Cheers.

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

I check them around every 6 months, more to get advance notice of a cell going off by measuring the SG than checking for loss of electrolyte. No topping up has yet been needed after 3 years.

The secret is to charge them to no higher a terminal voltage than 14.4V. Some 3 stage chargers go up to 14.8V so it is not simply a question of using any old 3-stage charger. If you look at the charging characteristics for your charger when switched to gel, you will find this will serve you nicely for nil-maintenance cheap wets 

I'll keep on saying it, but MHF members will still buy expensive gels off dealers "because they know best" and they "really want maintenance-free". Ho hum. Whatever makes them happy I guess.

Dave


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## mangothemadmonk

So Dave, lets get this right...

I don't need to "really" check wet batteries that often say every 12 months? (6 months min)

I would need to change the setting of my on board charger from gel as it is set at now over to wet if changing to wet batts?

I would need to drill a couple of holes and fit pipes to vent wet batts?

Using the solar wouldn't make me need to check battery electrolyte more than every 12 months? (6 months min)

Should I leave my MH plugged in when at home (as I do now [on a timer to come on at night]) or would this damage wet batts.

Cheers Dave.

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

Johnny,

"I don't need to "really" check wet batteries that often say every 12 months? (6 months min)"

That really depends on the extent to which you understand what your charging voltage profile is. But if it doesn't go above 14.4V, I'd probably check after, say, 1 month, then another 3 months, then another 6 months, and take it from there according to what you see happening - it may be 'never again'.

"I would need to change the setting of my on board charger from gel as it is set at now over to wet if changing to wet batts?"

No. Quite the reverse. Read what I said again 

"I would need to drill a couple of holes and fit pipes to vent wet batts?"

I would never counsel against this need, and it is trivially easy to do (I have a photo posted on a thread that shows mine). But equally I doubt much venting at all is happening with mine.

"Using the solar wouldn't make me need to check battery electrolyte more than every 12 months? (6 months min) "

In total analogy with your charger, that depends on the extent to which you understand what your solar panel regulator is doing. The 14.4V criterion applies here, too.

"Should I leave my MH plugged in when at home (as I do now [on a timer to come on at night]) or would this damage wet batts."

Again, as I have consistently advised, if the terminal float phase of your charger delivers 13.5 to 13.8V, just leave the van plugged into mains with charger on and forget about it. In my own case, because solar maintains my batteries, I only plug it into mains at home with a frostat radiator in the van when there is likely to be a heavy frost, as I never drain down the boiler.

Dave


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## mangothemadmonk

Thanks for that Dave.

One last (yeh whatever) question. Why do I leave it to gel setting on the charger when charging wet batts?

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

Johnny,

This is what I said in my post before the last, and to which I referred you in the last:

"The secret is to charge them to no higher a terminal voltage than 14.4V. Some 3 stage chargers go up to 14.8V so it is not simply a question of using any old 3-stage charger. If you look at the charging characteristics for your charger when switched to gel, you will find this will serve you nicely for nil-maintenance cheap wets "

Basically you want to avoid gassing. The penalty you pay is you don't drive as many Ah into the battery. But clearly one is prepared for that sacrifice for gels, so it is not a penalty for "nil maintenance but cheap wets" 

Dave


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## JockandRita

DABurleigh said:


> "The secret is to charge them to no higher a terminal voltage than 14.4V. Some 3 stage chargers go up to 14.8V so it is not simply a question of using any old 3-stage charger. If you look at the charging characteristics for your charger when switched to gel, you will find this will serve you nicely for nil-maintenance cheap wets "


Hi Dave,

My problem was that the "wets" as Johnny puts it, were gassing off quite quickly without any explanation, until I read about the change over switch beneath the Elektroblok. Once I had changed the setting from Gel to Lead Acid, the gassing ceased, and in the last 2.5 - 3 years, I have only topped the "wets" up the once. This is compared to topping up very regulary whilst on the "Gel" setting. 
I know that you are not convinced, as we have had some debate about this before, however, that is the current, (no pun intended :lol: ) situation with our battery set up.

regards,

Jock.

P.S. The battery manager is still going "great guns". Thanks.

*Hi Johnny*,

I am sure that your MH has a multi stage charger, of the kind that is kinder to your batteries.

Jock.


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## mangothemadmonk

Thanks Dave and Jock, I now have a head ache :? :? 

Johnny F


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## DABurleigh

Yes, Jock, here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-290910.html#290910
Though we subsequently exchanged PMs, Boff's post wasn't relevant to this and we never bottomed out why your flooded battery gassed merrily on a gel charger setting.

You will see from here:
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Gelled electrolyte
that "Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th's less) than flooded..."
so quite why your flooded cells gassed MORE at a lower voltage I had no idea.

Dave


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## maddie

mangothemadmonk said:


> Hi Terry. Would I have to have a 3 stage charger fit? If so thats an extra cost as well.
> 
> As I have solar which trickle the batts during the day would this affect the amount of times I would need to check?
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Johnny F


Hi I am sure you aleady have one,if not the aldi auto xs chargers are £12 and the netto tronix are £10 but I think Dave has answered all your questions a lot more tecnical than I ever could :lol: Mine has never needed topping up useing my van charger and everything I have read says stick with wets ! as there is nothin to gain by buying the expensive ones in comparison :lol: 3 x wets as to 1 say carbon :lol: 
terry


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## JockandRita

DABurleigh said:


> so quite why your flooded cells gassed MORE at a lower voltage I had no idea.
> 
> Dave


Dave,

Could it be to do with the fact that the three "wets", which a previous owner installed to replace the original "gels", were absolutely cream crackered anyway? Would that have caused them to overcharge and continually gas off?

Should I reset the switch to "gel", and monitor the level of the wets, as the starter battery is a "gel", charged from the mains, and now from that wee battery controller I fitted?

Regards,

Jock.

*Johnny*, sorry if I appear to be highjacking your thread, but I do feel that the info is relevant to your initial question.

Cheers,

Jock.


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