# Eberspacher v Alde v Truma



## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

We are just about to place an order for a Frankia and are deliberating between the standard fit Truma C6002 (with optional electrically heated water) the Eberspacher and Alde wet heating systems.
Our experience is with the Truma, which in our present vehicle, works very well.
They describe the Eberspacher and Alde as their 'Polar' system. Has anyone any knowledge or advice on any of the above?


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## 96558 (Oct 21, 2005)

Hi, Only have experience with Eberspacher.

Big advantage with eberspacher - it uses either mains electricity, or Diesel from your tank, it is therefore unlikely to run out of fuel. It has modern control panel akin to a house heating system, heats water and pumps out hot air, in fact works well.

Downside, external exhaust is noisy and some slight fan noise inside, both can be improved by quality of installation. Exhaust noise only while heater is burning and I have never found this a problem.
Major point, uses 12 volt battery power, no problem if your camper is on mains power, or has a good leisure battery, efficient charger and is wired properly. 
This last point is important as many motorhomes are wired with undersized wiring which cause a voltage drop and the Eberspacher to cut out early due to low 12 volts - this is not an Eberspachers fault - and will not occur if the van is wired properly. Only applies of course if not on 240v mains connection and the heater is in constant use.

Darlon


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

Thanks for that Darlon.
I,ve heard many comments about the noise but how obtrusive is the exhaust note? Would it annoy a close neighbour on a campsite?
I'm a little concerned about the amount of drain on a leisure battery when wild camping - we are specifying a 130amp/hr unit and wondering whether to order an additional 130 amp/hr battery whilst in build.
bob


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

For the money a second battery is always a good option. Doubles the time you can go without plugging in for around £50. Try getting it in with the price. It will cost the dealer next to nothing anyway.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi biggermac,

for maximum comfort and battery economy I would vote for the Alde wet heating. Is practically noiseless in operation, has all the advantages of a wet heating system, and has about the same 12 volts drain as the Truma. Truma's advantage is that it is slightly cheaper and, as all blown air heating systems, heats up faster. 

Both Alde and Truma depend of course on gas, while the Eberspächer (sic! With umlaut :wink: ) runs on Diesel. I know the Eberspächer wet heating from hireboats, and even the latest models make considerably more noise (outside) than gas heaters. And, of course, the 12 volts drain is higher. That does not matter on a boat with 800 Ah battery capacity, but on a motorhome it does. 

So, if you intend to wild camp frequently and gas supply is no problem, then go for Alde. If gas supply may be an issue, then go for Eberspächer plus extra battery.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

biggermac said:


> Thanks for that Darlon.
> I,ve heard many comments about the noise but how obtrusive is the exhaust note? Would it annoy a close neighbour on a campsite?


We have these fitted to our ambulances at work and the noise is very much a background one. Very similar to the noise from the exhaust on my combi boiler at home. It doesn't annoy me and if nearby campers have their windows shut, I doubt they would hear it.

One thing I can say about Eberspacher is they are fantastic when they are working, but annoying if you get one that likes frequent visits from the engineer like some of ours do.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I find the Eberspacer is fine, provided you don't cycle it, as it draws large start-up currents that can pull down the voltage of a mediocre or worse battery, particularly if it is very cold. 

But it will happily pump out heat from minimal to high at no more than 3A once it is going, so if that causes a problem you are either wildcamping in a very cold place going nowhere for more than a couple of days and without a genny, or you have a battery problem, or you are not using it as electrically efficiently as you could.

I would be concerned about its noise if I were camped right next to tenters, but if it's cold enough to need the heating on overnight in that scenario, they will be such a hardy bunch I shouldn't really worry 

Dave


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, I have never used any of them in a MH, but we do use the Alde with radaitors in our Narrow Boat and it is really great we have had it for 6 years and no problems. as for the Eberspacer so may people i have spoken to have had problems with these due to fuel blockages ? and the noise at night, i have actually had go and ask people to turn them off in the dead of night because of the noise ?

Brian


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

We have an Ebbeer - thingy 
We have found no problem with the battery drain
We did ask some neighbours if they had been disturbed by the noise (we were camoing at 4500ft in the Dolomites/Sud Tyrol, with day time temperatures down to -7C at mid day. 
We wer told that they couldnt hear it in their van but later said that they could hear something as they walked past

It copes well with heating up the Renault Master even at low temperatures 

It is also possible to run it to warm up the living Quarters when travelling , not so with the gas operated things

Also when on an overnight stop in an aires we have turned on the heating while having breakfast then while prparing to get under way you switch the output to "Cab Boost" & you can clear the windscreen of ice

We have an immersion heater to provide hot water on site 
You also get hot water from the engine while on the move and from the Ebber either when used for heating or Hot water alone

its been in use for 5 years now


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, the eberspacher is extremely integrated and convenient. Don't forget also being able to pre-heat the engine, so when it is minus 6 you fire up an already warm engine and drive away with a clear, dry windscreen 

Dave


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## 92263 (May 1, 2005)

Darlon says that the eberspacher runs of either mains electricity or diesel.
I was under the impression that it could only run off the diesel or the gas cylinder depending on which type you have. Could you please explain how it will run off mains electricity? Am I missing a cheap form of heating while on hook up? 
I used my eberspacher (diesel) for the first time last week whilst on the Lincolnshire coast, found it heated the van well and also had the added advantage of heating the water and pre heating the engine. We were on a CL site with no hook up and found no problems regarding drain on the leisure battery.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Skippy,

It's the combitronic version that has mains air heating:
http://www.eberspacher.com/combitronic.php?section=products

I have the modular hydronic one, that at least has the calorifier mounted inboard (good). For mains heating I have an 800W heating element in my roof aircon, and if we are staying on a hookup when it is expected to be very cold, then I take with us the silent oil-filled mini radiator I use to stave off frost and keep aired while hooked up at home.

Dave


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

We have run for 5 days without electric hook up & used Ebber spacher each evening 

Normally we use a mains hook up
I switch our manually but it can be timed
Blown air heating also gives water when heater is on and when driving
or water only
Only mains input is to the immersion heater

We can go for three months on 2 x 4.5kg gas cylinders & have some to spare

No gas involved to run the heating


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

We have a Alde Wet system that runs on Gas and/or Electric.
It can also be heated from the van engine via the Heat Exchanger and also in reverse in real cold tempatures to keep the engine warm when laid up.

It is slow to heat the van compared to blown air but once it has warmed up its great.

We have it on now set at frost protection running on our house electric so it keeps things in a ready state over the winter.

We went away for the night last weekend and it was great

Regards
Hugh


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

Hi,

Although I have no personal experience of the Alde system, we have been doing a bit of research on this system as our new van comes with it. Apparently it takes about 20 mins to 30mins to fully heat up, but once heated it keeps the van warm for a long time after been turned off. Anyone we have asked have all said that it is a far better system than the Truma or Eberspacer. If you think about it in a house, radiators are a far better heating system than air heaters so the same should go for the motorhome. Air quality within the van has to be better. We did notice that at the Dusseldorf show all the bigger and more expensive motorhomes had the alde system installed, so we reckoned if it was good for them, it was good enough for us. :lol: Most of the manufacturers at the show were looking for €2,500 extra for the system, however it came as standard with the burstner,  I don't know if it is worth the extra spend.


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

Dear Ladybird,
I read your comments with interest. We also attended the Dusseldorf show but found, especially on the Frankie stand that most of their vehicles were fitted with the optional Eberspacher system. However, at that time we hadn't thought about placing an order so didn't quiz them about it really.
It was only when we got home and decided to 'go for it' and looking through the vast accessories list that we came across the subject of heating. The standard vehicle has a Trauma CA6002 without the electric option, although this could be added for £265, the other alternative was an Alate or Eberspacher system at £462. We've chosen the Alate system and from the comments think it's a good decision.


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

I will let you know how good the Aldi system is after this weekend, we are going to the New Forest and the weather forecast does not look good, or looks great for testing the Aldi

Hugh


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

The big names that I was talking about were concorde, niesmann & Bishoff, Flair, Phoenix, in other words ones that I could not afford. When we were looking at the different manufacturers they all qouted between 2,000 and 2,800 for an upgrade to the alde system, however in the burstener 747 it comes as standard, which is the only reason we are getting it. At the moment we have truma 6002 which we find quite efficient. We did query a few people at the show and since about the alde system and everyone of them recommended it. However as I said I don't have personal experience of it yet, and the proof is in the pudding. I will watch with interest what Bertha has to say about it after the weekend. If it is no good will burstener give me a discount to put in the truma instead ?? :roll:  :roll:


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

I wait with baited breath!


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

All Advise is "freely" given.

Well, this is my first time in this type of weather, due to leave in the morning.

Current tempature, -15 degrees.


No, sorry, my 16 Year old daughter just walked past tempature now back to normal.

Heat Exchanger switched to ON so we don't have to wait for warm up on site.

I hope these bloody heaters are as good as you say or I will want a refund from all long term members from this site!


Hugh


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## 92180 (May 1, 2005)

We have the Alde system in our 747 and have found it to be an excellent systen. The facility to run the gas and electric for quick heat up is very good. The engine heat exchanger is a good feature and the back heat from unit to engine good for the cold starts.
We had a truma system before and I don't think I would go back to blown air. It is just such a nice all round heat with the radiators.


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## 96185 (Sep 1, 2005)

Enodreven said:


> Hi, I have never used any of them in a MH, but we do use the Alde with radaitors in our Narrow Boat and it is really great we have had it for 6 years and no problems. as for the Eberspacer so may people i have spoken to have had problems with these due to fuel blockages ? and the noise at night, i have actually had go and ask people to turn them off in the dead of night because of the noise ?
> 
> Brian


Oh I so agree with you. I have been woken even in the summer with eberspacers firing up presumably to heat water. These have been expensive installations with the owners being so proud of how quiet they are. Not across the canal they aren't.


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

*heating systems*

Hi All 
Have used Trauma blown air on N&B Arto I thought this was good but gas hungry when cold. Now using Alde hot water system this is by far better. 1) It is gas and electric, 2) A option is using engine heat transfer to the habitation and in reverse for pre heating the engine. 3) On gas when cold is far more economical. 4) Considerably quieter. 
On the downside it costs a lot more. In the end it depends on whether you stay in hotter climates during winter or you prefer the colder parts of the globe. 
Hope this helps 
rgds 
richard863


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## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

*Alde Heating System*

We have the alde gas/electric system in our mh and previously had one in a caravan. Personally, I think it is brilliant. If you are on gas then hot water is available VERY quickly (5 minutes?) and the van heats up in 20 minutes or less. If on electric it is much slower - perhaps 20 minutes till you have plenty of hot water and heating the van perhaps 40 minutes. Unless you wack it up to the 3kw setting in which case it is quicker but I am always worried I am going to blow a fuse unless I am at home.

What's really good is if you want to heat up the van really quickly then you wack on both gas and electric and 10 minutes later you are toasty!

Chris


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well we have just come back from our Winter test of the MH.

Left last Friday, turned the Heat exchanger on before setting off. Got down to the New Forest in the late Afternoon and it was getting cold outside but nice and warm inside.

First site fully booked so at to move down further towards Christchurch.

Got on-site and plugged in to the mains set the power to 2nd of 3 levels. Because of the use of the Heat Exchanger the rads were already quite warm.
By Midnight we had to turn the heating down, it was to hot.

Woke up in the morning and it was wonderful having slept the night on top of the quilt !!

Travelled around most of Saturday and the heat inside the van was great. Saturday night we went out and decided to shut the Heating off and try using the Mains Domestic Air Con unit to see what that could do.

When we got back from the club house it was nice and warm, however, because of the noise we turned the Alde back on.

To cut a long story short, the Heating worked brilliantly, both through the Heat Exchanger and the Mains (we did not use the Gas but I guess the result would be the same)

The heating worked well across the whole length of the van and of course all the lockers were equally warm which is good news for the on-board tanks.

We have decided to leave the heating on all over the Winter while she is laid up, (thermostat turned down low)

I don't know if the Alde is better of worse than any other makes but I can vouch that you will not get cold while travelling or camped up with a Alde system and of course, you got the advantage of dual fuel and the Heat Exchanger.

Very please and gives us more confidence to go out much more in the Winter

Regards
Hugh


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Alde*

Hello,

A question!

Are all the Alde Gas Systems able to run on Electric or is that another option?

Trev.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

From my truck experience, Eberspacher's are a bit noisy from the outside and the older ones were noisy inside when they kicked in,not so now but still a bit noisy outside. The Truma in my van does bang and chatter during start up, noticeable inside not out, Alde, no experience but are they not heavy?


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

The main consideration for us is the actual air quality. I find that blown air is very dry and stuffy leading to a slight headache if exposed to it for too long. By far the most comfortable is the Alde system and they are noiseless into the bargain.

Trev - Yes, the Alde models all work on electric as well to my knowledge.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

We have a Frankia fitted with Eber etc. It is very good. Whether you can use electricity and diesel or just diesel will depend on the model fitted. I think in the Frankia vans they are all wet systems, as opposed to blown hot air. The exhaust noise is not very obtrusive and really is only noticeable when starting up. Your van will be very well insulated so that the heating only kicks in for short bursts once you have reached the temperature you require. Really it is just like home heating. Very comfortable and offers hot water only setting or heating and hot water setting, Frankia call those Summer and Winter settings. The system uses very little diesel because it only comes on in short bursts. We leave the hot water on all day only turning it off at bedtime, Regards, Alan.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Do the alde systems need draining in the winter when not in use? We have a eberspacher and it works fine, is economical and the noise is not a problem, but I like the idea of the alde system more as is will heat the van more evenly, and will be less noisy.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Jezport, is yours wet central heating, if so it should work in just the same as the Alde wet central heating. Even heat distribution may have more to do with where the rads are and how well your van is insulated, Alan.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Hi

We have the Alde system in ours and it's terrific. Dont forget-If your on hook up and its cold, you can run it on electric and gas together to give it a real boost.  

steve


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Jezport, is yours wet central heating, if so it should work in just the same as the Alde wet central heating. Even heat distribution may have more to do with where the rads are and how well your van is insulated, Alan.


No my ebarspacher is an air heater


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Jezport said:


> Do the alde systems need draining in the winter when not in use? We have a eberspacher and it works fine, is economical and the noise is not a problem, but I like the idea of the alde system more as is will heat the van more evenly, and will be less noisy.


The water heating (washing,etc) side of the Alde system needs draining as normal but the radiator side of the system, for heating, runs on anti-freeze and is not drained. You can therefore run the heating side in winter to air the van without having to add water.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Alde in our tardis is super.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

But is there a weight penalty? This is important for a large 3,500 kg van.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

But is there a weight penalty? This is important for a large 3,500 kg van.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Alde*

Hello,

Our ALDE in our Frankia has a different controller to that shown in the Frankia and ALDE Instructions.

It is the simple switch type with rotary thermostat, anyone know where I can download the Instructions?

Also, what Anti Freeze do I use?

Trev


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Trev

info on the manual Alde control can be found in this instruction manual

http://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_3000_user.pdf

page down for the english

Frankia fit these in preference to the electronic ones as they claim that their customers generally find them easier to use, I wanted the electronic version so bought one from Alde UK & fitted it myself - easy enough to fit except that it was deeper so I had to find some timber of same colour to make a new surround , then I connected it to this :-

http://www.alde.co.uk/itemdetails.php?itemId=124

so I could switch the heating on remotely via a text message.

I guess your Frankia has the Eberspacher Heater booster, which only works when the engine is running . I am still trying to get mine converted to the Aux heater that works independantly of the engine, think I am almost there, have fitted a new two position switch & an extra wire from switch to heater now need MB to add the new sales code for the aux heater to my ECU - fingers crossed it may work


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

this is probably the user manual for the alde fitted to your Frankia

http://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_3010_instruct.pdf

extracted from this doc:-

The heating system should be filled with a mixture of water and glycol. For preference, use high quality readymixed glycol (with inhibitor) intended for use in aluminium heating systems. If using concentrated glycol, the mixture should consist of 60% water and 40% glycol. If the heating system will be exposed to temperatures below -25°C, the glycol content must be increased, but not to more than 50%

The glycol mixture should be changed every second year, since its ability to protect against corrosion, for example, will deteriorate.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Alde*

Thanks very much Trek, very much appreciated, I could not find that download for the manual. I know it looks self explanatory but its juts nice to confirm.

Thanks again


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

I should add that yes the Alde wet system has options of 1,2 or 3 KW of electric heating as well, you can run both gas and electric together for a fast warm up if necessary. But we also had a 100 litre bulk gas tank fitted.

Given our experience with it we would specify it again.

C.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Alde*

Okay here goes now that I am better informed.

If you are buying a Frankia and buying on a Mercedes Chassis with an Eberpsacher Diesel Boost Heater (Standard I think on Frankia Spec Mercedes), you would be better off specifying the Alde Gas option. Then after buying, have the diesel Boost heater re-programmed to work as an auxiliary heater. For even better efficiency, get the Alde Heat Exchanger installed too, this way you will have

The option to

Heat Space and water on the Move from Engine cooling system,
Heat Space and water on the move from Gas (Where and when legal)
Heat Space and water from EHU (Electricity)
Heat Space and water from Gas
Heat Space and water from Diesel

And of course certain combinations so for example, you could heat the Space and water from

Engine Heat+Diesel Heater+Gas when on move or for a super boost

EHU+Gas+Diesel

Now there are a few kW's!

This suits us as we often venture off the beaten tack in the depths of winter, nothing worse than running out of gas in a foreign country. We have had GASLOW in the past but do not think we will need it with what we have.

If you are buying on a Fiat or Iveco Chassis you may still have the Eberspacher/Webasto booster option but will have to specify it with the chassis order, if and where possible. The alternative would be to retro fit it.

TM


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