# driving through France in January



## les1

Hi

Can anyone tell me the best route through France in January. Is it better to travel down the Atlantic coast to cut down the effects of the cold French Winter. We would like to use the ferry to bilbao but its to expensive.

many thanks Les


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## Stanner

Have you costed out the drive allowing for possibly less mileage each day due inclement weather and extra costs (heating etc.) for the overnight stays?

The Bay Of Biscay can be bad but so can getting stuck in bad weather.

One way you can be fairly certain of being in Spain in less than 48 hours - the other way nothing is certain.


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## MikeCo

For the last 4 years we have driven down the western route in January, thats down to Bordeaux and then into Spain via Burgos and through Madrid to La Manga.
This year however we are taking the Portsmouth Bilbao ferry on the 27 December.
Due to the cost of Diesel and also motorway tolls which we prefer to use in winter the difference is not that great.

Mike


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## tony50

les1 said:


> Hi
> 
> Can anyone tell me the best route through France in January. Is it better to travel down the Atlantic coast to cut down the effects of the cold French Winter. We would like to use the ferry to bilbao but its to expensive.
> 
> many thanks Les


hi there's an article in the C&Camping mag. and the guy reckons there is little difference in driving through France and going by Bibao ferry cost wise I personally could not say ,I have never driven down to Spain in the winter but I'm sure someone on this site has , as for the Bay of Biscay I have had the experience , force 12 . sick until I couldnt be anymore went to cruise ship hospital £50 later best jab I have ever had cured me , I should say at this point I'm the world's worse sailor

Tony A.


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## jiwawa

We travelled down through France last January, 8th-18th, using Aires (A) and Wildcamping (W) as follows. Yes, it was very cold, but we enjoyed our travels.

A	Rang-du-Fleurs (closed but stayed outside)
W	Chartres supermarket
W “
W	Chateau Renault – old barn on river
W	Chaumont-s-Loire
A	Vivonne
A “
A	Cavignac
A	Biscarrosse
A	Vieux-Boucau

Into Spain to aire at Lierganes. From there, right round the coast of Spain/Portugal, anticlockwise.


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## Rapide561

*France*

Hi

Do the France regulars think the toll free A75 might be dodgy in winter?

Russell


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## peedee

You can read my notes on the trip I did this year in mid January >here<

peedee


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## 113016

When I was International trucking, I used to drive back and forth to Madrid & Portugal via France.
52 weeks per year and never had any serious weather problems.
On the odd occasions I may have had to park up for a few hours but that was all.
Just don't worry about it! You will get there and you have no dead lines to meet, so enjoy!


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## Stanner

*Re: France*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Do the France regulars think the toll free A75 might be dodgy in winter?
> 
> Russell


The same question could be asked of the "toll free" M.11 and M.20 (I've been stuck or nearly stuck on both) - and the answer is you just can't tell.

On the boat it's up to someone else to get you there or bed & board you until they can (been there as well).


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## Grizzly

Be sure to make the most of every chance to fill up with fresh water and empty all orifices as you travel !

Aires are usually open but in January it is not unusual for the water to be turned off.

There are recognised trails of campsites open on all the major routes to Spain- the Caravan Club offer a list in their Winter Escapes brochure - see their site.

We looked carefully into prices of boat (Portsmouth to Santander) and overland on January 4th this year and found that the difference in cost was less than we expected and we did get a good deal with an outside cabin. We were lucky- a flat calm sunny crossing which we enjoyed very much. 

We came back in mid-March from Valencia via Zaragoza, Pamplona, Bordeaux, Marboue, Eaux les Forges and Dunkirk in weather which got steadily nastier ( wet, cold and very windy) as we left Bordeaux. We used aires and campsites on the way back but did not find any aires with water and even- a first- were reduced to buying a pack of bottles to drink.

G


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## teemyob

*Winter Spain*

Hello,

We are using the Bibao Ferry in a few weeks (minibus, not motorhome). We are also considering the Biblao Ferry for December the 27th December too. so might see you there MikeCo.

To be fair, I have driven to Spain several ways and by the POSL- POB and BF's ships.

Driving:

Great if you have the time and that would be my preferred option. Bad weather does not bother me, have been up to the arctic circle in the depth of winter in the MH. At least if you get stuck you have heat, light and water. I have never had problems obtaining water. In the Pyrenees http://www.camping-le-rioumajou.com/ had running water on the pitches and we got into -15c!.

Bay of Biscay Ferries:

It can be like a mill pond or force 9, 10, 11 or 12. It might seem costly. But if you are short on time (I run a business and Mrs. TM works full time). Then this is the better option
If you calculate fairly, the cost of overnight stays, fuel, heating etc. I doubt you save that much. Especially as many of us only get low to mid 20's mpg.

TM


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## peedee

peedee said:


> You can read my notes on the trip I did this year in mid January >here<
> 
> peedee


If it is any further help, just had a quick look at my costs for the above trip. I get 23/24 to the gallon and my costs were:

Spending by Category

Between 18/01/2011 and 25/01/2011

18/01/2011 - 25/01/2011 - 
===============================================================

Expense Categories 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Motorhome Holidays
Night stops 23.1700
Expenses 31.0343 
Total Motorhome Holidays 54.2043
Vehicle Fuel
Motorhome 234.9700
Total Vehicle Fuel 234.9700
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total Expense Categories 289.1743

Expenses of £31.03 were made up of tolls and gas for heating. The gas was just over £8.

I have not included food, you have to buy meals on the sea crossing and I doubt it would be much different.

I personally do not like the sea crossing. Its rather boring compared to driving yourself and of course I do not have to kennel my dog.

peedee


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## teemyob

*Prices*

I have priced your motorhome and without any Discounts, inside cabin. The price comes out at £354. I did not think that too bad!.

But you might get more than 25 mpg perhaps?

TM


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## peedee

The cost for me to Bilbao is:

Price breakdown Outbound Sailing

Vehicle and Passengers 350.00 GBP

Outside large 2 berth/4 berth cabin with ensuite facilities. Wheelchair accessible 110.00 GBP

Pet(s) 29.50 GBP

Cabin discount 10.00 GBP 

Total 479.50 GBP

i.e. £479.50 - £289.17 = £190.33 more without taking into account I still have to drive from Bilbao to my south of Spain destination, which on my trip was to Benicasim which is 410 miles and one night stop away.

410 miles at 24mpg at 1.30 p.p.l that is about a further £100 assuming no tolls or night stop costs

For me it would have been £190.33 + £100 = £290.33 more expensive to go by sea even without Spanish tolls or night stop costs.


QED

peedee

p.s Sorry forgot to include a channel crossing in my costs so reduce the difference by £70 because I used the tunnel. 
p.p.s If I could take an inside cabin this further reduces the difference by about £35 but this is still about £200 more expensive than making the road trip.


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## Hydrocell

Hi les 

We have travelled from Calais to the south of Spain for the last five years between December and February, last year late December on our first day in France it was could but mostly fine, our first stop from Calais was the Vivonne Aire the water was turned off but we got water for washing only for the toilet block under the library on the aire.
The following morning we awake to six inches of snow and because the market had set-up in the bottom half of the car park the only way was up a short incline past the library and as you may of guest it a MH is as much use as tits on Tarzan, however after two attempts I had to get the snow chains out five minutes and we are up to the Super U and filling up. The N10 was very quiet with one lane clearer in each direction and buy the time we got to Bordeaux it was like we were on a different planet we never seen another flake of snow in the next five weeks we had a fantastic time.

So it’s doable but it depends weather or not you like driving long distances, as regards for the cost we fined we can do it much cheaper this way as long as you stay of the toll roads, staying off the toll roads make, you think that it’s going to take twice as long but we only go at one speed between 60 to 65 and most of the route we take are dual carriageways anyway. So weighing it up we think as much as the road for here to Dover is a Paine in the butt I still rather do that than pay the cost of the Billbo or Santander ferries.

If you need a route and stops let me no and I’ll send you one.

Regards
Ray


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## Stanner

peedee said:


> The cost for me to Bilbao is:
> 
> Price breakdown Outbound Sailing
> 
> Vehicle and Passengers 350.00 GBP
> 
> Outside large 2 berth/4 berth cabin with ensuite facilities. Wheelchair accessible 110.00 GBP
> 
> Pet(s) 29.50 GBP
> 
> Cabin discount 10.00 GBP
> 
> Total 479.50 GBP
> 
> i.e. £479.50 - £289.17 = £190.33 more without taking into account I still have to drive from Bilbao to my south of Spain destination, which on my trip was to Benicasim which is 410 miles and one night stop away.
> 
> 410 miles at 24mpg at 1.30 p.p.l that is about a further £100 assuming no tolls or night stop costs
> 
> For me it would have been £190.33 + £100 = £290.33 more expensive to go by sea even without Spanish tolls or night stop costs.
> 
> QED
> 
> peedee
> 
> p.s Sorry forgot to include a channel crossing in my costs so reduce the difference by £70 because I used the tunnel.
> p.p.s If I could take an inside cabin this further reduces the difference by about £35 but this is still about £200 more expensive than making the road trip.


Driving down doesn't just cost fuel - there are lots of ancillary costs as well. So you also need to add something more than just the cost of fuel to the road trip costs as you wear out tyres and increase servicing costs by driving the extra distance. It also increases the mileage on the van and thus reduces it's "trade in" value.

Use the HMRC "no profit" mileage rate "for cars" of 45p instead of just fuel costs and see how it compares then.


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## peedee

Stanner, but the cost doesn't immediately hit my pocket and in any case I enjoy the drive far more than the long crossing and because I am in no hurry, only travel short daily distances and take the opportunity to explore on route. 

Far more interesting whatever the weather.

The £200/300 saved pays or nearly pays for an equally enjoyable trip back.

peedee


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## 79144will

You can watch the sea for a day ,boring ???or explore the countryside for 4/5 days ,that`s the point of having a motorhome surely!!Bill


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## teemyob

79144will said:


> You can watch the sea for a day ,boring ???or explore the countryside for 4/5 days ,that`s the point of having a motorhome surely!!Bill


As replied to on your other post

As I keep saying, great if you have the time. For a 2-3week trip. Not many wish to spend almost 2 weeks of that on the road!.

DavidDredge

You live in Dover?. If so, have a 280 mile (560 return) head start on us.

Only 240 miles to Portsmouth for us. Then only 465 miles to where we stay if we go to Spain. On Almost deserted roads, and almost toll free.

So that is

705 miles via Portsmouth - Bilbao 
1405 miles via Dover - Calais

Dover - Calais Route would cost us £1150 in Fuel and Tolls (less on tolls if using the Bordeaux Route). If you factor the wear and tear in, costs are even higher.

In low season, we can get a return ferry UK-Spain-UK for as little as around £760. Just booked for Christmas and even towing a car with standard Outside cabins comes out at £820 and our MH is 8.4M.

We don't have to travel in High season (School hols).

Off in a few weeks BF to Spain. I don't fly so going by minibus. Hiring a small one in Spain can cost £1,000 a week.

Have done the route to Spain many times, various routes, various forms of transport. For me, If I had the time, yes we would drive through france. But as we don't, the ferry is by far the best option. Even if it can be a bit choppy sometimes.

TM


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## rapidresults

*Route welcome Please*

Ray, May I have a copy of your route with stops please?
Thanks, Dave



Hydrocell said:


> Hi les
> 
> We have travelled from Calais to the south of Spain for the last five years between December and February, last year late December on our first day in France it was could but mostly fine, our first stop from Calais was the Vivonne Aire the water was turned off but we got water for washing only for the toilet block under the library on the aire.
> The following morning we awake to six inches of snow and because the market had set-up in the bottom half of the car park the only way was up a short incline past the library and as you may of guest it a MH is as much use as tits on Tarzan, however after two attempts I had to get the snow chains out five minutes and we are up to the Super U and filling up. The N10 was very quiet with one lane clearer in each direction and buy the time we got to Bordeaux it was like we were on a different planet we never seen another flake of snow in the next five weeks we had a fantastic time.
> 
> So it's doable but it depends weather or not you like driving long distances, as regards for the cost we fined we can do it much cheaper this way as long as you stay of the toll roads, staying off the toll roads make, you think that it's going to take twice as long but we only go at one speed between 60 to 65 and most of the route we take are dual carriageways anyway. So weighing it up we think as much as the road for here to Dover is a Paine in the butt I still rather do that than pay the cost of the Billbo or Santander ferries.
> 
> If you need a route and stops let me no and I'll send you one.
> 
> Regards
> Ray


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## Hydrocell

Hi Les

We have driven down through France for the last seven years and only once we have had a slight problem with snow between the middle of December and February and that was last year.
The main roads were clear, we had parked up for the night at our first stop which was in Vivonne it was cold but fine, however when we awake the next morning it had been snowing in the night and it was about 6 inches deep and because it was now Thursday the market had taken over the bottom half of the Aire/carpark so it meant that we had to drive up hill to get out, I tried twice no luck so out came the snow chains easy, after 20 yards they were off and have never been used since.

We never paid one toll all the way to Benidorm plenty of water available on route no problem.

The only way I would conceder using the Bilbo route if I was time limited or the prices where better.

If you need a route I’m more than happy to post it.

Regards
Ray


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## Hydrocell

Hi Les
Try this
I’m sorry it’s taken a little time to get back to you but I’ve been very busy.

Our first stopover is at Marine Parade in Dover

The route from Calais is as follows

Calais – Boulonge – Abbeville – Rouen – Evreux – Chartres - Tours - Poitiers
Angouleme – Bordeaux - Bayonne - St Jean – Irun - San Sebastian - Pamplona
Zaragoza – Sagunt – Valencia - Benidorm

Once we get of the ferry the first thing is to fill up at Auchen them pickup the A16 to Boulogne and then the N901 towards Aberville to join the A28 onto Rouen.
Follow the ring road around Rouen and pickup the N154 to Evreux and onto Charters. After Carters you’ll pick up the A10 duel carriageway to Tours and onto Poitiers on the same road now the N10.
We make Vivonne our first stop in France this Aire is in the 3rd Edition all Aires in France Page Number 514 Item 10 Good safe stop in the winter the water is normally turned off but electric and waste is available. The Aire is in the town, which has nice shops and a super U supermarket for fuel. There is a Market here on Thursday morning at the bottom end of the car park.
Continue on the N10 past Angouleme and on to Bordeaux and Bayonne and then to St Jean de Luz still on the N10 there is an Aire at St Jean on the left next to the train station with free electric and water but it fills up very quickly if it’s full carry on the N10 for around 7 miles to Irun.
As you drop down the hill to Irun you’ll come to the first of two roundabouts go over the first and after 500 yards too your left you will see a large car park over looked by a large restaurant we have used this place 5 or 6 time safe for over night park free between 6pm and 8am we have used this stop going and coming but and always had a good nights rest.
The next day follow the same road to San Sebastian and onto the A15 to Irurzun then onto the N240 to Pamplona which leads onto the N121 following sings to Zaragoza after Zaragoza pickup the A23 we stopover at Carinena just off the A23 Good Safe stop in small town in a large lay-by next to the park and school very quite on overnight traffic you can also say in a restaurant car as long as you buy a meal or have drinks.
Back on the A23 which is a good new duelcarrageway this road will take you all the way the Sagunt on the cost after sagunt pickup the A7 to Around Valencia and the onto the N332 at Sollane follow this road around the cost to Benidrom 

I hope this information help but of course you can go and stop where you wise safety is always a priority for us luckily we have never had any problems with intruders or police, we do three long trips per year and generally it’s France, Spain or Italy.
Good luck to you all and have a safe journey were ever you go.

Regards
Ray


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## Hydrocell

One other thing I purchased a motorhome to go touring not sailing.
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## eurajohn

Surely a lot of the pleasure of trips in a motorhome is seeing / visiting places etc on route, not really relevant on a ferry. 
Dis-regard the nastiness if the weather is rough and the possibility of seeing whales in the Bay of Biscay, looking out of a salty obscured piece of glass at sea / sky cannot be as pleasant as constantly viewing the scenery whilst leisurely driving along un-crowded non toll roads through France! Add to that for the duration of the crossing you are only going to get to eat / drink what the ferry has on offer at the normally exorbitant prices for usually sub standard produce.

If you are sad enough to have to calculate the depreciation of your vehicle should you actually dare to use and put miles on it then I question the sense of actually owning one in the first place.

To answer an earlier question, the A75 does get more than it's fair share of snow, however the authorities do keep at least one lane snow / ice free at all times, as others have mentioned it's likely you will have to hunt for water supplies, although any of the all season camp sites will have it available.


Use the van!!


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## Grizzly

eurajohn said:


> Surely a lot of the pleasure of trips in a motorhome is seeing / visiting places etc on route, not really relevant on a ferry.
> Use the van!!


We don't all own a van with the same end in view. We've been up and down and around France for the last 40 years and reckon we know just about every square metre of it. While we have parts that we enjoy re-visiting there are parts we are happy to pass through quickly and, if the weather is foul, miss out altogether in favour of pastures new. We have the van because it is more convenient and relaxed than hotels and the car when touring, not as an end in itself. I can't see much pleasure in slogging up France in the bitter cold and wet but, if the country is new to you then go for it.

One possibility that the OP might look at is a ferry from Portsmouth to St Malo (or Cherbourg or Caen), drive the reasonable distance to St Nazaire and then get the LP Lines ferry from St Nazaire to Gijon. I've just looked at that route and am surprised to find it quite significantly less expensive than the Portsmouth to Bilbao /Santander route.

G


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## Glandwr

Where’s the serendipity in a sea passage? If there is no deadline I’d drive every time even if slightly more expensive.

Dick


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## jud

tony50 said:


> les1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Can anyone tell me the best route through France in January. Is it better to travel down the Atlantic coast to cut down the effects of the cold French Winter. We would like to use the ferry to bilbao but its to expensive.
> 
> many thanks Les
> 
> 
> 
> hi there's an article in the C&Camping mag. and the guy reckons there is little difference in driving through France and going by Bibao ferry cost wise I personally could not say ,I have never driven down to Spain in the winter but I'm sure someone on this site has , as for the Bay of Biscay I have had the experience , force 12 . sick until I couldnt be anymore went to cruise ship hospital £50 later best jab I have ever had cured me , I should say at this point I'm the world's worse sailor
> 
> Tony A.
Click to expand...

hi tony50. no thanks Dover -Calais 90min is a enough for me no matter what the weather we like the steady drive down the N10 route beside's we know a few free aire with free electric to keep us warm :lol: ,jud


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## waz

The route from Calais is as follows 

Calais – Boulonge – Abbeville – Rouen – Evreux – Chartres - Tours - Poitiers 
Angouleme – Bordeaux - Bayonne - St Jean – Irun - San Sebastian - Pamplona 
Zaragoza – Sagunt – Valencia - Benidorm 

We used to do removals from Alicanti using the above route and never had a problem. If you look at a map you can dogleg off the Zaragoza motorway and save on the tolls. I will dig out my maps and post the dogleg route numbers.

Waz


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## Grizzly

Glandwr said:


> Where's the serendipity in a sea passage?
> Dick


Indeed; not many blind camels found swimming in the Bay of Biscay....!

G


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