# Maximum permissible weights



## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

I am new to Motorhoming and would welcome a little advice from those more experienced. I have an Autotrail Cheyenne 696 on a Fiat Ducato Maxi chassis. My querie relates to the max permissible weight. The plate in the engine compartemt says 3500 Kg. It also shows axle weights etc. 
BUT I have a National Caravan Council Certificate issued in relation to the vehicle giving the length, width designated passenger seats and the important bit for me 'Maximum Technical Permissible Mass' 3850 Kg.
My question is simple (although perhaps not the answer) which is the max weight that I must comply with
Any help appreciated. Going to a weighbrideg tomorrow to see what the actual weight is
Regards, Dave


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

3850kg, but check your V5 registration document. What taxation class is on your tax disc? If it says Private Heavy Goods or PHG then it is definitely more than 3500kg

David


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks for your prompt reply, Unfortunately I ddo not have the reg document at the moment. Its been sent to DVLA regarding reg plate change.
Thanks for your advice 
Dave


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

What will count at the roadside - or on the weighbridge if you're taken there - is the manufacturer's plated weight on the VIN.

Dougie.


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

I think you will find that if VOSA check your vehicle they will go for the MAM (3500kg) on the vin plate.

Normally when a converter up rates the MAM they re-plate the vehicle.

If sprocket sees this post he will give a definite answer.

Don


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

who is the manufacturer, Fiat or Autotrail?


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

The converter is Autotrail. They might have put a plate somewhere other than in the engine compartment.

Maybe an Autotrail owner can say where the plate could be.

Don


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

I think what you have is the original Fiat plating for the chassis at 3500..
Then added later when the conversion is done to a Motorhome is the new plated weight of 3850... 
This is what I have on our Autotrail 700 (2005) and log book stated private HGV and also the weight at 3850kg gross....


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

Don Madge said:


> The converter is Autotrail. They might have put a plate somewhere other than in the engine compartment.
> 
> Maybe an Autotrail owner can say where the plate could be.
> 
> Don


On ours - bear in mind its a 52 reg - the Autotrail plate is just by the internal step inside the door. Hope this helps!


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks Tonka, I thought I was speaking urdu or something....

You have confirmed what I thought was correct in my post.

Does your tax disc say PHG too?

David


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Dave

None of those, as I remember are correct.

If you go on to the Auto Trail web site and look up your Cheyenne 696 it gives all that information along with its towing capacity which is 1200kg, PM me if you can't find it.

Best regards
Broom


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

I have a 2006 696G and can confirm that the MTPLM is 3850kg. On mine Autotrail have added a supplementary plate under the bonnet next to the 3500kg Fiat plate stating that the chassis has been upgraded to 3850kg. The V5 also shows 3850kg and the taxation class is Private/HGV.
Hope this helps.


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies, all most helpful. I do not have the Reg Document at the moment (sent to DVLA) but the tax disc shows PLG.
Once again thank you all for your efforts,
Regards, Dave


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Dave, 

If the tax disc shows PLG and not PHG then it is registered as 3500kg or under. For it to be a PHG it must have a GVW over 3500kg.

This could mean that the vehicle has been registered incorrectly and you will be restricted to 3500kg until it is amended. 

To amend, you will need to provide evidence of the higher capacity and the supplying dealer or Autotrail should help with this.

Brg

David


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

My 'Auto-Trail' plate is also next to the Fiat plate in the engine compartment.


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks to everyone here I am beginning to understand. When I get the reg Doc back I will check it and see if I can get further documentation for it to be upgraded. 
Thanks, Dave (What a helpful website)


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## bkjk (Feb 5, 2007)

Hi welcome to autotrail, u do not state the year i had a 2004 which was definatly 3850kg now got 2007 which is 4000kg according to autotrail catalogues from 2003 to 2007 it should be 3850kg giving u a payload of around 600kg hope this is of some help to u Regards BK


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Watch out. No matter what catalogues, reg document or advice says, it is what is on the plate/s on your vehicle that any examiner/police check will take as correct. No argument.


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## bkjk (Feb 5, 2007)

very true


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Well, just to update, I have now had the reg doc changed to show 3850 Kg and got a new tax disc showing Private Heavy Goods. (£20 cheaper than PLG) and Autotrail, who were exremely helpful have sent a new plate to be sited in the engine bay alongside the Fiat. This also now shows the Max weight of 3850Kg.
Thanks to everyone for their input
Regards, Dave


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Dave

What year is your 696, must have changed to the new model checked mine and it is 4000kg on the plate, giving 720kg pay load.

Best Regards
Broom


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi, Mine is a 2002 Cheyenne 696 (6 berth no garage etc).
I,m happy to get to 3850 Kg, Don,t think I will ever load that much even with 4 people. Done the calculations and have had it weighed so I am rewasonably happy (although my missus may say that I,m never happy)
Regards, Dave


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Chudders said:


> Well, just to update, I have now had the reg doc changed to show 3850 Kg and got a new tax disc showing Private Heavy Goods. (£20 cheaper than PLG) and Autotrail, who were exremely helpful have sent a new plate to be sited in the engine bay alongside the Fiat. This also now shows the Max weight of 3850Kg.
> Thanks to everyone for their input
> Regards, Dave


Wow that was quick, I had a similar problem. I have received my HGV tax disc way back on the 18th September and a VED refund about 10 days later but I have still not had the reg (V5C) back! Hope they haven't lost it.

peedee


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chudders said:


> I am new to Motorhoming and would welcome a little advice from those more experienced. I have an Autotrail Cheyenne 696 on a Fiat Ducato Maxi chassis. My querie relates to the max permissible weight. The plate in the engine compartemt says 3500 Kg. It also shows axle weights etc.
> BUT I have a National Caravan Council Certificate issued in relation to the vehicle giving the length, width designated passenger seats and the important bit for me 'Maximum Technical Permissible Mass' 3850 Kg.
> My question is simple (although perhaps not the answer) which is the max weight that I must comply with
> Any help appreciated. Going to a weighbrideg tomorrow to see what the actual weight is
> Regards, Dave


Hi Chudders.
My M/H is a Hymer and the Vin plate under the bonnet says 3500kg.
The Hymer build plate on the side of the coachbuilt says 3900kg.
The authirities only go by the vin plate so yours is 3500kg. sorry!!!!
You will probably find that if it is built on a maxi chassis that it was down graded when first registered and that it is just a paper exercise to upgrade to 3850 kg as the maxi has a heavier load capacity.
If you want to make extra certain, fit Airide and you will get 3850 as a minimum, which is what I have done but it is not needed


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Is there a difference in cost of taxation between PHG &PLG ?
Also what are the implecations if the wrong weight plates are present?
Barry


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

bigbazza said:


> Is there a difference in cost of taxation between PHG &PLG ?
> Also what are the implecations if the wrong weight plates are present?
> Barry


PHG is cheaper, from memory I think it is £165


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Again thanks for the advice.
Out of interest I have now spoken to VOSA technical help officer who confirms that a 'second stage converter' is authorised to increase the maximum authorised weight and plate it accordingly. The plate of the second stage converter will be the one that the vehicle should comply with as the most recent and will be the plate relevent at any roadside check.
He did point out the implications of driving a heavier vehicle when reaching 70 years of age and the speed limits imposed, particularly on dual carriage ways etc.
Regards, Dave
Edit. Yes the RFL is £165 instead of £185


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

Does any one have any info on how to upgrade to a higher max weight 
eg 3500 to 3800 
I have a 2003 Rapido and note the converter offered at that time an increase to 3800kg as an extra 
Thanks 
Roger


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Roger7webster said:


> Does any one have any info on how to upgrade to a higher max weight
> eg 3500 to 3800
> I have a 2003 Rapido and note the converter offered at that time an increase to 3800kg as an extra
> Thanks
> Roger


Hi Roger, Can,t speak for Rapido but I understand from VOSA that all second stage converters are entitled to re plate to an appropriate weight providing the vehicle meets specified requirements. (Increase if appropriate). I rang Autotrail in my case and they supplied a design weight certificate( which I sent to DVLA )and a thin laser engraved plate to be affixed in the engine compartment adjacent to the original Fiat Plate.. The design weight cert was little more than a letter indicating the chassis etc alterations (if any) and that they considered the Max weight to be 3,850 Kg,s. ie a Private Heavy Goods. (PHG). I was issued with a new Road Fund Licence and in due course received a refund as it was previously a Private Light Goods. The tax is less ! ! . In due course the V5 was ammended and returned and now shows the new taxation class. It appears to be all down to the second stage converter (Rapido in your case). It was all a painless excercise and in my case worth doing. However be aware of regulations regarding a PHG vehicle over 3,500 KG,s In particular speed limits and the requirements regarding a medical certificate at the age of 70 years. Also that your driving test was passed before I think 1997 which should automatically authorise you to drive vehicles of this class. A later test date requires another test for the vehicle I believe.
Hope this info helps, if you want more info please let me know.
Regards, Dave


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks Dave,thats just the info I need
Roger


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