# MOT Failure due to LHD Fog Light



## Auldgadgey (Jan 25, 2009)

I've just been advised that my LHD HYMER 544 1991 import will fail its MOT because it doesn't have a fog light. It does have one and it works but it is on the near side. What I don't understand is that I have a number of years of MOT certificates all obtained with exactly the same fog light configuration!
I know MOT regs state a fog light in the centre or offside, but how has it passed the tests to date and can I use those certificates to argue against a fail now :roll:


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Why not simply move the fog light? it's hardly major engineering.

David

ps, if the existing fog light is part of a bigger light cluster, a simple bolt on auxiliary fog light is less than a tenner.


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

No you can't. VOSA are now spot checking vehicles leaving MOT centres and testers are now into self preservation.


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*off side fog light*

whatever previous results have been for your mot, a fog light on the nearside in the UK, think lots of fog, small car behind you close to the kerb say a motorbike comes to overtake the car behind you, cant see your fog light bang. I have a foglight both sides so at home and in Europe I have a greater degree of protection.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Our UK supplied 15 year old Citroen ZX has passed the French MOT for the last 10 years with a note that the steering wheel and rear fog light are on the wrong sides.

This does not constitute a 'fail' but in the event of an accident these notes are examined by the police and if they feel one of the notes contributed to the accident you will be prosecuted. 

I realise it's not help to you here but it's a much more reasonable approach.

Ray.


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

I had exactly the same problem last MOT. Fog light from Halfords £6 fixed in the middle of the van did the trick. Easy to wire up to the existing fog, remember to remove the existing bulb or it will still be a failure.
Waz


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

Ciao, happened to me at Dover summer 2007. As suggested by weldted, just get an additional one put on - 10 min. job and bingo MOT cert. issued. Same motorhome now has Italian plates and 2 foglamps.
saluti,
eddied


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## Auldgadgey (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks for al the replies, its off to the fog light shop in the morning.

Tony

Thinks, "get off high horse and accept that the rules change sometimes"
Better safe than sorry as me Mam used to say.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Youv'e seen the light

Loddy


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I was in a motor showroom yesterday and was overheard saying that I was a bit disappointed that my vehicle had only one rear fog light and only one reversing light. The salesman said the authorities think two fog lights look too much like brake lights going on.

So we are MoT failed for no off-side fog-light?

Are we legal on the continent if the only rear fog light is on the right of the vehicle?

Maybe there will one day be a business at Calais to re-wire and change the bulbs and reflectors on all vehicles crossing the channel. 
It might be owned by an ex-Commissioner from the EU!

Is this one joined-up Common Market?

Geoff


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Maybe there will one day be a business at Calais to re-wire and change the bulbs and reflectors on all vehicles crossing the channel. 
It might be owned by an ex-Commissioner from the EU!

Is this one joined-up Common Market?

Geoff[/quote]

It would be easy on our Rapido as to comply with the lighting regs, they just changed the lenses from side to side.......but drain holes were then on the top so had to mod that.
Gary


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## Bubblehead (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi

Some vehicles have the fitting for a fog light on both sides, but the wiring and bulb only fitted on one side. It may be a case of moving it to the off side.

My pet hate, apart from those who use them as rain lights is the fitting of fog lights next to brake lights. I think it is dangerous as when the fogs are lit they obscure the fact the vehicle is braking. I love the high level brake lights.

I was sat (stationary) in heavy traffic a few years ago at dusk in rain and the car in front had his fogs on. I flashed the driver to try to get him to switch his fogs off which he just waved his hand to. I then put my main beam on and sat there. After about 5 minutes the guy got out of his car and came and complained to me that I was blinding him. I just told him that if he stopped blinding me I would stop blinding him. Result we both switched our lights to what they should have been and continued to sit there for another hour or so

Andy


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Light*

Hi

Well done to the tester who has worked on your van - if he has been that thorough, it suggests he has done a good job.

Five years ago, when I started looking into motorhoming, I remember chatting to Hambilton's @ Preston about an import. Amongst the list of things he would do was the fog light (if two were not fitted), headlights, speedo etc.

I know it sounds daft when you have passed every other year.

Russell


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## buffallobill (Sep 28, 2007)

if you fit a fog light to your vehicle, i am sure if my memory serves me right , there are specific dimensions , from the side of vehicle, and from the ground , to fit the fog light, with a visual system in the cab to say it is switched on. could be different now though. but worth a thought before fastening on to rear.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Generally, vehicles fitted with only one rear fog lamp only have one reversing light. The reversing light should be fitted n/s and fog lamp o/s.


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## Auldgadgey (Jan 25, 2009)

Rapide561 wrote
"Well done to the tester who has worked on your van - if he has been that thorough, it suggests he has done a good job."
Mmmm I am thinking he is doing too good a job or maybe he doesn't like motorhomes. I was given a list of "fails" they included "loose headlights" at home I checked the headlights they are "loose" in as much as they are spring loaded for adjustment and if you push them hard enough they move. Is there a set load under which they shouldn't move? Another "fail" was the horn, it works fine, if you push it it sounds, maybe he couldn't find it :wink: 
Another "Fail" was the offside dipped headlight not working I turned it on, it worked!
I did think of phoning back to the test centre and asking if they had had another Hymer 544 in at the same time, but I think I would have noticed.
FYI the test centre was a BT Fleet workshop and it was a Friday.


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## waggy3 (Jun 24, 2008)

i noted that some one suggested removing the bulb.

i was always under the impression that if a light was fitted it had to be working.
you may have to remove the offending light.

some one who knows the leagal situation may be along soon.

no guesework please . we dont want to confuse this person as sometimes it may happen this way.

roy


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

It was me who said to remove original bulb. I had to do this last year when I had the same problem with my van. If I had fitted the fog light at the same level on the opposite side then I could have 2 fog lights and that would have been ok.

Waz


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

waz said:


> It was me who said to remove original bulb. I had to do this last year when I had the same problem with my van. If I had fitted the fog light at the same level on the opposite side then I could have 2 fog lights and that would have been ok.
> 
> Waz


the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 Scedule 11 Part 1 (12) is the bit that says that if two rear fogs are fitted then they have to be a matched pair.

Regulation 23 is the one that says that any lamp identified in the list in 23 (2) (a) which includes the rear fog (vii) must be clean and working.

Schedule 11 is the bit that identifies that a fog lamp is one that is on the right hand side and so if such a lamp is fitted it is the lamp called a rear fog and the other one is not. Do you see what I mean.

As it is not a light identified in 23 (2) (a) then it does not have to work.

Therefore Waz was right.


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## waggy3 (Jun 24, 2008)

thank you cronkle,
it looks as if you have got it sussed. roy.


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

When I bought my Seat Alhambra some 9 years ago only the offside rear foglamp worked. This is part of the main cluster mounted on the hatch. Looking through the lamp it looked as though the nearside one was missing the bulb so I removed the tray from the inside & found the bulb receptacle, wiring & contacts all there, but no bulb. I fitted a bulb, switched on & it worked. My theory is that one fog light is good & two are better. 
All was well until I attempted to refit the tray & it wouldnt go back in place. :? Closer examination revealed that a disc of plastic was fouling the bulb I had just fitted, obviously there to prevent RHD vehicles being fitted with a LH fog lamp. So evidently someone objects to dual rear foglamps even though they are perfectly legal when used in fog. Anyway, it took me all of two minutes to remove the plastic disc & I've had two rear fogs ever since.


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*is the fog light legal when abroad*

the vehicle has to be legal in the country that it is registered in, other than stated issues like headlight no dazzling oncoming vehicles and rule re spare light bulbs, Triangles, first aid, fire ext, spare glasses if required for driving, reflective jackets etc. though for safety I would have fog lights both sides.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

It appears that the EU-wide certification process can permit a vehicle to be fitted with one rear fog light on either side, which then means any vehicle will have that light on the 'wrong' side if crossing the Channel.

Why does the EU legislation not require 2 lights?

If UK vehicles/drivers are required to adhere to local rules for triangles, spare spectacles, first aid kit etc. (most of which may never be used and /or cannot be seen) and for light dipping, why not for fog lights? 

There are many continental-registered cars and vans driving round UK with only a LH rear fog light, which appears to be legal, but would not be for a UK-registered vehicle. So the logic is that a vehicle with a UK plate is less safe than a vehicle with a non-UK plate -ASININE!!!

Anyway does anyone know whether it is an offence to drive a UK-reg vehicle on the road with only a LH rear fog light or is it only the MoT regime that requires a RH light?

Geoff

P.S. I suspect some 'petty-fogging' bureaucracy here !! SORREEEEE !


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Anyway does anyone know whether it is an offence to drive a UK-reg vehicle on the road with only a LH rear fog light or is it only the MoT regime that requires a RH light?
> 
> Geoff


It is an offence under the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989.

I can't see it being used as the grounds for prosecution unless it was thought to have contributed towards an accident though.


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

As long as a vehicle is legal in the country of regesrtation then it is legal anywhere in Europe. I have a uk car here in Hungary and I do not need to comply with Hangary having winter tyres. We have been writing to the EU to have the laws changed for UK to accept an another counties MOT and say Spain for example to accept a UK MOT. In Spain there is a lot of illegal UK car and in UK a lot of Eatern Europeen car htat are illegal due to the fact that 'the ownwers can't be bothered or afford to go back 'home' to get their cars tested. 
Waz


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Hi Waz

I am not against the idea of MoTs being accepted across the EU, but on the topic of single rear fog lights it would create the problem of a German car needing to have a LH light to pass the UK MoT, but then being illegal because being German registered it needs to comply with German law.

So then maybe the EU would require manufacturers to fit 2 lights.

Geoff


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Hi Waz
> 
> I am not against the idea of MoTs being accepted across the EU, but on the topic of single rear fog lights it would create the problem of a German car needing to have a LH light to pass the UK MoT, but then being illegal because being German registered it needs to comply with German law.
> 
> ...


If a German registered vehicle is compliant with German law and a UK registered vehicle is compliant with UK law then they are both legal in both countries and as long as the tester was aware of the differences tests could be carried out in any EU country.

Most MOT testers that I know of are capable of coping with the variations in European specifications and certainly if there is any doubt they have their handbook that could be easily updated to accommodate the new info.

Pan European 'MoT's should be possible but I can see that setting them up would cause some beauraucratic problems. The sytems and timings would have to be brought into line which would raise more issues than the position of the reversing lights.


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Geoff
IMHO the worst thing on a vehicle are rear fog lights. Speaking as a person who drove for a living I hate them. On the MOT side it would not be to hard to standardise the test eurowide. The Spanish ITV is not to far off a UK Mot on the major things, tyres ,steering , exhaust emissions but a bit lax on wipers and windscreen damage. The good thing about the Spanish ITV is that they do not do repair work so a failure does not give them work. Here in Hungary a mechanic take your car to the test station so don't know the proceadure here.

Waz


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