# Motorhome Depreciation



## peedee (May 10, 2005)

With insurance renewal coming up I got round to thinking how much was my motorhome worth? I have seen posts on here also requesting this information but there is nothing like "Parkers" available for motorhomes.

Many of you have bought and sold motorhomes, some many times over, so is it possible to get some idea of average depreciation from responses of those who have done so and would it be a valuable guide? 

I would calculate this as follows:

Purchase price minus Selling price divided by number of years owned equals the Annual Loss. Express the Annual loss as a percentage of the Purchase price.

So what was your average annual depreciation of a motorhome you have bought and sold ?

peedee


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

5% 

Romahome c15 hitop owned for 14 years

(for my home accounts I'm depreciating my current one by 10% per annum but 10% of current value not 10% of purchase price)


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

It's not linear. Get the tyres dirty and you'll drop a couple of grand from new. For insurance purposes, consider how much it would cost for you to replace it. Best place for that is to check out the ads.

If you over-insure, the insurance co. will happily accept the extra premium but you won't ever get more than replacement cost if you make a claim.

So, each year, when you come to renew, check the ads and add a bit for extra's and contents.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I would work to 

year 1> Vat and another 5% of Retail price. 

Then 10% of price left per year until it gets over 7 years old. 



We are currently selling out less than 2 year old Hymer ans the above is about right from what prices we have been offered. 


Richard...


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Surely someone like John from JohncrossMotorhomes would be able to give a rule of thumb guide.

In this current climate I shudder to think what secondhand values would be.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Peedee

What Richard said but vat plus 10% of purchase price year 1, the 10% per annum. Extras have no value and shouldn't be included.

Bought Euramobil 500 Sport Dec 05 £20000. Sold it July 06 £24000

So, depreciation is -20%! in 6 months. And a 15% discount on new van!

I reduced the insurance value of my new van by 20% this year and saved 10% on premium with Safeguard. Value is still higher than dealer price for a 2.5 year old replacement.

I was once told by my insurer that if you under-insure, the insurance company will reduce your claim in event of total loss by the %age under-insurance

eg Van insured for £40500. replacement cost £45000. Under-insured by 10% so they pay out £35950! 

David


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for the quick replies, I was really only interested in actual figures from owners but some interesting views have been expressed.

Richard, I think your figures are fine if you have only had the motorhome a short time from new, depreciation is high initially but I would have thought over the longer term 10 percent p.a high? 

More views welcomed.

peedee


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Doesn't it get a tad complicated when you're in the part-exchange game? For sake of simplicity would you just count what you have to pay to change- then ignore all the extras you have put on at purchase?


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

An interesting question although I’m not sure that I wanted to work this out. It’s rather painful!!!

My calculations are:

2005 Rapido

Cost Approx: £45,000 (made up of £38,297 plus £6,702 VAT at 17.5%)

Just part exchanged for new Chieftain and got £29,000 for it.. 

I’ll assume that VAT is written off in year 1 and then take the difference between actual costs of van less part exchange price:

£38,297 less £29,000 = £9.297 over 3 years, or £3,099 per year or 8% pa 

Tony


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

peedee said:


> Many of you have bought and sold motorhomes, some many times over, so is it possible to get some idea of average depreciation from responses of those who have done so and would it be a valuable guide?
> 
> peedee


I'm just buying a "pre-owned" 2002 Autocruise Wentworth (2 berth) - I can't say what the new price was for sure, but I think it was at the higher end of the Autocruise range when it was introduced (I have seen one "new" price quoted as £36,500 but I've no idea if that is accurate).

Mileage 22,750. Screen price £22,500 (dealer) but you could offset MOT / 12 mths road tax / habitation check / replacement of juat about anything that looked worn/scuffed etc. / 12kg gas / at least two new tyres (still negotiating).

Having said all that, a quick scan round the ads shows similar models on sale for anything between £21,000 and £26,500.

I'm not sure if any of that helps.

Mike


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi when I first looked at m/h's a few years back I read an article about deprecation and it basically said v/high on new vans tapering down to between 6 and 8 % -- but to throw a spanner into the works,the guys question ended up asking how much his van was worth now ? answer came back at £13 k bearing in mind 10 yrs ago it was only £13.5 k new :lol: 
terry
BTW always try to get an agreed value on the m/h ins,that way if it is a write off they have to pay the full value and not what they say :wink: 
terry


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Telbell said:


> Doesn't it get a tad complicated when you're in the part-exchange game? For sake of simplicity would you just count what you have to pay to change- then ignore all the extras you have put on at purchase?


Keep it simple Telbell. If you are part exchanging, then the value given is usually on the bill and that to me is the selling price.

peedee


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> Keep it simple Telbell.


Fair comment. Like others it gets a bit frightening when you work things out- perhaps unlike car purchase, many MHomers tend not to keep their vehicles for more than a couple of years (that would be an interesting Poll!) which makes the depreciation even more heart breaking.


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

It's tricky, I bought my first one privately for £8.6k spent about £600 on it used it for 9 months then traded it for £10k against a newer one.
Positive depreciation :? :?: or is that negative depreciation :?:


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

"Negative depreciation" is appreciation, surely?


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Are, but the question was "depreciation"


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

I can never understand the commonly expressed view that the value of a nearly new vehicle always falls by the amount of the VAT. Surely market forces will apply and any second hand vehicle (or anything else) is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. The value is dependant on supply and demand.

I suspect this is just an argument used by dealers to drive down the part exchange offer


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

hi peedee,

glass's guide do a guide for caravans and motorhomes. if you look at their website and enquire about the guides they will send out a sample one of each. it may help if you mention that you are going to open a caravan/motorhome dealership/sales :roll: . well they did for me a few years ago when i started looking at motorhomes.

cheers
simon


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

*"Surely someone like John from JohncrossMotorhomes would be able to give a rule of thumb guide. "*

Not if he is not going to make anything out of it :wink:


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Ah! I have it, the vaste majority of members are newbies and have never changed a motorhome yet?  

peedee


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

peedee said:


> Ah! I have it, the vaste majority of members are newbies and have never changed a motorhome yet?
> 
> peedee


Yep, that's us. 

Chris


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## 109533 (Jan 27, 2008)

i think you will find that your second hand motorhome if nearly new that is .is worth a lot more than you think because of the euro new ones are costing a lot more than this time last year hence ones that are 1 year old are actually being bought back for more money than they actully payed for them .i think this may only be for the continental made ones as they are the ones affected by the euro .i have a 2008 burstener 747 bought new last january its now costing a whopping £25,000 more this year than they where last and thats the basic model with no extras . its also down to supply and demand the dealer i got mine from sold loads last year he has just been told by burtner he can only have 4 for the whole of 2009.
HAPPY BARTERING


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

peedee said:


> With insurance renewal coming up I got round to thinking how much was my motorhome worth? I
> peedee


For insurance pirposes I would suggest that whether it is a brand new or used MH, for the first year you insure for the full price that you paid.

For subsequent years, check the MH magazine adverts for similiar vans available from reputable dealers as that will be the amount you would need in order to REPLACE the MH. (Add a couple of £1000 on to be on the safe side)

MH insurance compared to car/vans is quite cheap and any overvaluation is not going to cost that much extra and could well be worth it

Insurance Companies in the event of total loss tend to offer a so called trade valuation which in your case as a retail buyer is totally irrelevant and should be firmly resisted.

Peter


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

I was told that the perceived wisdom was VAT for the first year and 5% for each year.

However:

* It doesn't take account of discounts - some vans will have a more depressed SH value
* It doesn't factor in the current economic climate and lower demand
* Nor does it take account of the Government encouraged slide of the pound against the Euro

Anyone's guess, I suppose


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

So I'm going to look at a van tomorrow.

It's a 2008 model - the owner says he has had it a year, but he presumably means a year and a half, at least. 

It's done 6,800 miles. 

The same year and model on the directory on here is listed as having been £36,000 new. 

I have found brand news ones (2010) for sale now for £39,995 (presumably that's the asking price, and one negotiates a bit off?). 

The one I'm looking at is for sale by a private owner (no dealer) and is advertised at £32,500. 

Assuming I like it and it's in good condition, what do you think I should offer for it?


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

HeatherChloe said:


> Assuming I like it and it's in good condition, what do you think I should offer for it?


About 10% less than you're prepared to pay, that way you leave yourself some room for negotiation.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

I would go in with an offer of £29000 ...


...to end up at £30000-30500 

Assuming that the vehicle has no faults at that asking price.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

To answer the OPs question...

whats depreciation?

I bought our first camper - a Type 2 VW converted microbus for £1800 and after £500 in work sold it after a year for £4500

I bought an even older Type 2 ( a 68 Danbury) for £2500 used it for a year and sold it for £8000

I then bought a 1992 T4 VW Autosleeper for £8000 (so it owed me nothing) and after four years use I got £9000 for it

Now I am guessing that our new(er) 2001 Compass T4 will not show us a profit but given that we can lose £9000 before it ACTUALLY costs us (from previous profit) we might still do ok


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Prices seem a bit weird at the moment.

We bought our current van for £37K just about 20 months ago. It was discounted from a list price of £42K. The same spec '10 model now lists at around £47K and because Euro vans have stopped selling in the current market I don't know if any discounts are available as there are no ads for them.

I've been offered up to £26K cash for the van by dealers, with most offering £25K and openly saying they'd put it on the forecourt for £30K, so a £5K mark up (20%). 

That's a thumping loss to me of £11K over 20 months, but if someone more unfortunate bought my van at list price they'd face losing £16K over the same period. In my case the loss is 30% of initial price and if you take the VAT out of it (as dealers insist you should) then the loss in value is 17.5% over 20 months, or around 10% a year.

Now if I was a punter looking for a nearly new van, knowing that a new one will cost me £47K, but that an under two year old one could be mine for £30K, I know which one I'd buy and I'd consider I'd saved myself £17K. On that basis surely dealers aren't making the best of current market conditions, pricing nearly new vans at closer to their original new price would still offer buyers a massive saving over current new prices and give less pain to sellers?

BTW you can't always count the PX value that you're offered for your van as it's actual value for depreciation purposes. Dealers may well offer you a higher PX valuation in order to make you feel they've offered a good deal. But you won't be able to get much, if anything off the purchase price of the new van because they'll have given a lot of their leeway to negotiate to you in the PX offer.

On the basis that dealers try to get a £5K margin I would suggest that a private sale should yield the seller at least £3K more than the dealer's offer and the buyer gets a bargain too.

Andy

Edit 
PS
Selling mine privately at, say, £28K brings the loss down to £9K or £3.5K after removing VAT. That equates to 11% over 20 months or an average of 7% a year.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes i like your strategy/figures Andy.

The moral to me is don't buy a new van, get a second hand one, the older you buy, the less you'll lose.

Paul.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

No, the vast majority do not want to admit to how much they have lost is more like it. :roll: :roll: been there, done that, too many times. :wink: 

cabby


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

coppo said:


> Yes i like your strategy/figures Andy.
> 
> The moral to me is don't buy a new van, get a second hand one, the older you buy, the less you'll lose.
> 
> Paul.


Mind you Paul it's not quite so simple, even buying used.

For instance if you bought my van for the notional £30K from a dealer and then tried to sell it for cash to a dealer in two years time I bet they'd offer you £20K and retail it at £25K. So your two years depreciation would be £10K. That's a loss of 33% and a yearly average of 16% or so. Even if the dealer gave you £22K that's still 13% depreciation a year.

The answer is to buy nearly new privately, probably saving £2K or so and sell privately as well, gaining maybe £2K to £3K over the dealer's prices. In the example above that brings the depreciation down to £5K which is still 8% a year but at least the £5K is in your pocket, not the dealer's.

Andy


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## greentub (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi

With this thread nearing what appears to be a natural conclusion forgive me for adding a twist. We've just purchased our first motorhome, brand new for personal preference, in the full knowledge that there will be a measure of depreciation. But if we spent the same amount of money on flights, fares, hotels, cruises et al over the same period that we own and use the motorhome there would be 100% depreciation on that cash. I can't understand why everybody gets so wound up about depreciation - it is what it is. There's a solution of course - sit at home, do nothing, bank the cash and wait for the monthly premium bond cheques (if you're lucky). And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that either. Sadly, there are very few material purchases that financially appreciate and I'm sure that, as a motorhome owning collective, we can do nothing to affect that fact. So whilst the 1st hand calculations are very useful I think the best we can do is relax and enjoy our depreciating assets whilst we have the health to do so. Gosh! that all sounds a tad pretentious. Thanks for letting me vent my spleen. Cheers


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

I take your point GT but surely one of the things MHF is about is trying to help ensure that people go into things with their eyes open and don't get ripped off. 

Anyone that pays list price has lost a large chunk immediately because they didn't haggle and other large chunks can be saved by buying privately and selling in the same way. 

It's quite possible that over several changes of van, over several years that saving might amount to £10K or so which is a not inconsiderable for most of us.

Andy

PS 
The sales manager of a big local dealer admitted to me only last week that new motorhomes are 'way over-priced' and 'ridiculously expensive', but he's still selling them. He's tapped into a vein of well heeled regular customers who buy new every two to three years and don't blanche at the substantial hit they take each time. Maybe they've won all my Premium Bond prizes :lol: 

Andy


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

I think Greentub has made a mistake regarding comparing it to the cost of flights etc.

When you assess the cost of a holiday, you take 100% of the cost of flights and hotel and then you KNOW how much the holiday cost you.

When you buy a motorhome, you want to know how much it's going to cost you.

The amount it costs you is the difference between how much you pay for it and how much you sell it for.

So if I plan to keep a motorhome for 5 years, the cost per year is 1/5 of the depreciation over those 5 years. 

If I planned to take 100% of the cost of the motorhome as my cost, I'd never buy one, as think how many holidays I could have for £30,000 +.


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

Telbell said:


> Doesn't it get a tad complicated when you're in the part-exchange game? For sake of simplicity would you just count what you have to pay to change- then ignore all the extras you have put on at purchase?


Perhaps we would feel better if we took the new price, then sold, or pxed, it to a dealer then bought it back from him and assessed on the first and last price :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## greentub (Oct 20, 2009)

PS 
The sales manager of a big local dealer admitted to me only last week that new motorhomes are 'way over-priced' and 'ridiculously expensive', but he's still selling them. He's tapped into a vein of well heeled regular customers who buy new every two to three years and don't blanche at the substantial hit they take each time. Maybe they've won all my Premium Bond prizes :lol:

Andy[/quote]

HI Andy (the steamdriven one)

Don't get me wrong - I agree with everything you say in your post - to be topical "I agree with Andy" (especially as I'm also an Andy!)

This site is nothing if not a great education. In line with your thinking we've paid, post haggling and pre VAT increase, £48K for the Autocruise Augusta that currently retails at £57.6K. (Picking-up the van on the 25th May) And I also agree, motorhomes are wildly over-priced for what they are. But because I wanted one I had to pay the going rate (less haggling) and accept the going rate of depreciation. If anyone is in the least bit uncomfortable with either facet then keep the money in your account. But don't purchase and then fret over the depreciation - life's too short. Cheers


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

greentub said:


> Hi
> 
> With this thread nearing what appears to be a natural conclusion forgive me for adding a twist....................


Me too :wink: 
However, my point may be considered totally irrelevant  but may :?: provide an interesting comparison
A small boat (Cox 27) was sold new in 1985 for £23k
It changed hands in 1991 for £24k and in 1998 for £25k.
I bought it 2003 for £23k and sold it in 2006 for £23k
I know that doesn't sound too bad, no worse that keeping the money in a bank current account  but that doesn't take consideration of the costs of running boats. These have more than a passing similarity to standing under a powerful cold shower and tearing up £100 notes :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

To continue the fashionable theme 'I agree with Andy too'. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

What concerns me is that people sometimes go into motorhoming, with a salesman's words of 'there's very low depreciation on a motorhome' ringing in their ears. To justify it the salesman will point to a two year old van on their forecourt and say that it was £35K new and is selling for £30K or thereabouts. What they don't say is that the owner only got £25K for it and in the heat of the moment the punter doesn't think it through.

Now I suppose if you compare it to a car which costs £35K new, then depreciation on a motorhome is better. An average car being worth about 35% of their original list price after three years. So from £35K to £12k. In that car's case a dealer will try and sell it for around £14K and, of course a wise punter would've negotiated something off the list price at the start, but still a much bigger hit than the motorhome.

SDA


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks for everyone's help! 

I agreed £30,500! 

I am pleased with this, and all this discussion got me the confidence to discuss the price! 

HOW EXCITING!


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## greentub (Oct 20, 2009)

HeatherChloe said:


> Thanks for everyone's help!
> 
> I agreed £30,500!
> 
> ...


Very well done. If you're happy with the deal that's all you have to worry about. Have a very good time and thanks for initiating a very interesting thread. Cheers Andy


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## greentub (Oct 20, 2009)

OOps! sorry Peedee - it was your thread. Much obliged.


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

HeatherChloe said:


> Thanks for everyone's help!
> 
> I agreed £30,500!
> 
> ...


You did good 
Now enjoy it and forget out the money


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

My sister bought an apartment in Turkey in 2006 for £37,000.

We bought the MH in April 2007 for just over £44,000(imported when the exchange rate was brill), saving well over £10,000.

She laughs now saying her apartment is valued at £53,000.

Not sure what our A class is now worth £36,000-£37,000? roughly.

But, she is not going this year, is sick of going to the same place and the price of flights going up, she has been broken into twice, had to have bars on all windows.

Last year she bought a static on the coast for £4000 but the annual fee plus bills comes to £4000 and she now wants to sell cos sick of going already.

She likes going to different places but refuses to buy a MH saying far too expensive.

Moral she says-buy property.

Its not all about money-Although some of it is. :lol: :lol: 

Paul.


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## mikkistash (Mar 27, 2010)

Could i please use this thread as i have to sell my motorhome soon, i bought it new april 2010 for £39k after getting £12k knocked off as it was 2008 unregistered model so my way of thinking was i had got off the VAT and then some. When i sell will i then i have to take off the VAT and 5% for the 9 months i have had it? 
Great post by the way
Many thanks.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

mikkistash said:


> When i sell will i then i have to take off the VAT and 5% for the 9 months i have had it?
> Great post by the way
> Many thanks.


I wouldn't, google your model and year and see what others are being sold for will give you a good guide as to worth.

peedee


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## mikkistash (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks peedee,

I didnt fancy that idea.
The motorhome is a TEC freetec 688ti and i only get German sites when i google it (the same as when i was looking at buying it) They have only just been started to be imported into england again by http://www.geistforlife.com/classified.php so there isnt any pre owned ones to compare it against for price.

What would you guys say is a fair ammount to lose on 8 months after 1200 ish miles?

Any help appreciated.


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

mikkistash said:


> Thanks peedee,
> 
> I didnt fancy that idea.
> The motorhome is a TEC freetec 688ti and i only get German sites when i google it (the same as when i was looking at buying it) They have only just been started to be imported into england again by http://www.geistforlife.com/classified.php so there isnt any pre owned ones to compare it against for price.
> ...


yours looks to be worth 26-27k see here


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## mikkistash (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks Karl i have seen that advert, but If you read the add that is for a 618ti and not a 688ti also it has been registered since 2008 mine was registered in may 2010.
cheers.


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