# To Tow or not to Tow - that is the question!



## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

We are off for 6 months in September mainly in Europe but also probably into Morocco and are wondering about the pros and cons of a tow car. We had thought we would hire a car in some places but maybe taking a car would be a better option. We took a car with us to Cornwall at Christmas (all be it our Audi estate on a trailer) and it was a godsend - but we were parked on a site for a week not touring. How big a hassle factor is a tow car?
We mainly stay on aires so would that prove problematic with a car aswell? We are already 8.5m so would be a very long unit with a car. Is a car feasible for Morocco? We have a motorbike which we could take to use in an emergency but obv can't take puppy out on that! 
Do we still count as one unit on tunnel if we are towing or would we go as two?
Sorry for all the questions - hubby suddenly through this spanner at me last night, as they do!!
Thanks for any help
Sally


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

Hi, you'll definately pay more for your trailer which ever route you use to cross the channel. On toll roads too if you have to use them. Your total weight will be too much for some roads in the smaller towns and villages so getting access to some aires will be restricted and that's before you try to get on them! Check on Campingcarinfos website before you go, they have pictures from Google Earth that show the spaces on most aires.

The ferries to Morocco aren't all roll on-roll off and to have to turn round to get off them. This isn't usually a problem because they take artics but it is something for your hubby to be pondering on the drive down!

Morocco isn't that dog friendly and the dog won't be welcome in some souks and markets. Be prepared to have it kicked out of the way if someone wants to get passed! I saw it happen! Rabies is common there and whilst your dog will be vaccinated it's better to be safe than sorry and keep it away from local dogs, however friendly. Be aware too that there is a quarantine for dogs coming from Africa into Europe. They don't generally bother because of the Pet Passport Scheme, but it might be an idea to check on the current status BEFORE you get on the boat in Spain! Many people do take theiur dogs with no issues but it does happen so be prepared.


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

You can't have anything outside your MH on an Aire, and this includes trailers of any kind. You also need to pay extra for a trailer on the tunnel or on ferries.

Sounds like it would be cheaper for you to hire a car occasionally, or use public transport and taxis.

As above, think very hard before taking a dog to Morocco, no rabies vaccine is 100% effective.


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Easyriders said:


> You can't have anything outside your MH on an Aire, and this includes trailers of any kind. You also need to pay extra for a trailer on the tunnel or on ferries.


Not wholly true, we pull a 5m boat on a 6.5m trailer on our August holiday, never had an issue on any of the aires that we have stayed on.

However it is easier to use the Municipal campsites that are around, they are extensive cheap and secure.

As for the ferry/tunnel I use the tunnel, and its no more expensive, as I use Tesco vouchers, last 5 years all free.

Steve


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

We have been towing a car behind the van for almost 10 years. Give up taking it to Europe, it is just to much hassle and to restrictive. 

We have a small 50cc Vespa in the garage and it is absolutely brilliant. Only wish the weather in the UK was better and we would never consider towing the car.

As for trailers on Aires. We were in Calais Plage Aire last month when a Brit arrived with a car on a trailer. He pitched it next to his van taking up a pitch, it was the last one available. A van arrived 10 minutes earlier, it was a Dutch registered van and a conversation took place between the owner and the owner of the trailer. It seemed to get a bit heated and the Dutch van drove up to the water point to fill his tank. A few minutes later a car arrived and a gentleman got out and spoke to the owner of the trailer. A few minutes later the Brit and his good lady attempted to push the car out of the Aire into the car park 

They struggled to push the trailer and car so we got out to help. It also helped me get the low down on events. It boiled down to him being told Aire is ONLY for Motorhomes, it is tolerated to use for other things but in this case a Motorhome wanted the space so it takes priority....so beware!


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

Motorhome Aires (not the aires off motorways) are only for motorhomes, not for caravans, and not for trallers of any kind. Some people may have got away with having a traller, but they can be turned off.

Indeed, you are not supposed to have anything outside the motorhome, not even a pull out awning or a chair. Take a look at "All the Aires France" or "All the Aires spain and Portugal", where the rules are clearly laid out.

If too many people misuse Aires, what will happen is that local communities will decide they are more trouble than they are worth, and close them down.


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## Philippft (Feb 16, 2008)

Easyriders said:


> You can't have anything outside your MH on an Aire, and this includes trailers of any kind.


I would be gratefull if you could tell me where you are getting this from? I've not seen any restriction's on trailers in any of the Aire guides. Perhaps I missed it!


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## dpsuk999 (Mar 25, 2012)

I too would be interested in where this information is as I have used aires in France and Belgium with my trailer and had no problems at all.


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## tonybvi (Jan 31, 2007)

We tow a Smart car on a trailer and take it with us to France for 2 or 3 months very year, mainly staying on aires, and have never had a problem. BUT we choose our aires very carefully (camping cars.infos gives photos, details and reviews of all the aires) and only go for those that appear to be large enough and don't have formally marked out bays. Importantly we also go out of season when there is no real pressure on space on the aires. If at any time we felt that we were taking up too much space (i.e. the aire suddenly starts to become crowded) we would either try to find somewhere "off aire" for the car and trailer, or move on - however this has never yet happened in over 5 years of continental travel.
The important thing is to show consideration for other motorhomers using, or wishing to use, the aires.
Tony


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. Aires are obviously there for motorhomes and we wouldn't want to stop any one from using the facility. We would be on on A frame so could easily park the car somewhere else if necessary.
We would also be off season but were more concerhed about the extra hassle factor of moving around with the car behind and the ease of finding an aire. I guess it rules out any wildcamping and the smaller village aires. 
I think part of this is our panic/nerves about how a longer trip will go - we have only done 3 weeks before so 6 months seems a long time with just the motorhome for transport and the complications that throws up. If we are constantly moving around I don't imagine a car would get used that much but if we find a dream spot it would be great to nip out for a few hours of easy driving.
Decisions decisions!!
Sally


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## tonybvi (Jan 31, 2007)

Looking back at your original post I see that you are going in September. We normally go around mid-August to mid-November and getting on to aires with the trailer has never been a problem, provided, as I said above, that you choose carefully. I see that your van is longer than ours so personally I would recommend that you do take the car as it opens up so many possibilities. We use ours to go into towns where I wouldn't be happy parking up the motorhome as well as for day trips around some of the beautiful but motorhome inaccessible roads that abound in France and it has enabled us to see so much more without worrying about the motorhome.
Personal choice, of course, but I have never found a problem with towing on the continent.
Tony


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The notices about the use of aires is usually displayed on a public sign near the aire.

There are numerous restrictions about what you can do legally, and while you may get away with other things at other times there is no guarantee.

Aires are NOT for camping and it is not permitted to use chairs and table outside the MH, neither are you allowed to use them for caravans or any form of trailer - whether it be a car + trailer or a car + A frame - they cannot be parked on the aire. There are fines which can be levied by the Marie......

You are not even allowed to lower corner steadies - I saw that done and then the MH owner was spoken to and they were rapidly raised..... :? 

Using an aire is a concession paid for by the commune - they are entitled to make, and enforce, the rules but most are simple and straightforward and are clearly written in the Aires books - the French versions certainly.

I would NOT take a dog to Morocco as the anti-rabies rules apply ONLY to EU countries and Morocco is NOT. If you are found out when you get back to the UK your dog faces a COMPULSORY six month quarantine period at your expense. You would also be putting other animals in the UK at risk if you illegally smuggle the animal in (and that is what you would be doing if you do NOT declare that you have taken the dog to Morocco).

OK, rabies is uncommon in many parts of Europe, but it still exists - so the precautions are there for a reason, but in Morocco it is endemic and the risks are VERY much greater, even with the vaccinations etc.

Dave

Dave


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## elldwin (Dec 3, 2009)

Be aware A frame towing is illegal in so many countries now. We are in Germany at the moment and have been fined for using A frame so are travelling separately at present. Also Spain doesn't allow it.
Jan


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Penguin

Sorry but you are wrong about the customs quarentine for dogs that have been to Morocco. I have checked all this with DEFRA (as posted in my previous threads) and as long as your dog has had a blood test before you leave the UK showing the correct levels you are completely entitled to bring your dog back into the UK after visiting Morocco
I find the suggestion that we would smuggle the dog in and put the UK population at risk slightly offensive - but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way - just best to check your facts first.


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

taz said:


> Penguin
> 
> Sorry but you are wrong about the customs quarentine for dogs that have been to Morocco. I have checked all this with DEFRA (as posted in my previous threads) and as long as your dog has had a blood test before you leave the UK showing the correct levels you are completely entitled to bring your dog back into the UK after visiting Morocco
> I find the suggestion that we would smuggle the dog in and put the UK population at risk slightly offensive - but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way - just best to check your facts first.


But surely not a sensible thing to do! I am not a dog owner but would certainly not put a dog at risk of being in contact with rabies even if immunised.

Gary.

PS, as an ex caravanner (the "c" word again!) I have never understood towing a car around. I gave all that up when I bought the m'home. It makes me use my legs to get about, and we've had fun using public transport when needing to go further than our legs will carry us. Have fun on your trip.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thank you for that information,

I did check my information;

https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-information-for-pet-owners#countries-and-territories

if you read those lists, Morocco is NOT listed as an approved EU country or a non-EU Country with a low risk.

I have not contacted DEFRA but am aware that information from them is often inaccuracte as is often reported - it depends who you ask and how you ask.

As regards my comment about smuggling, if you do not declare that you have taken your dog to Morocco you ARE smuggling it in.

The situation about importing an animal from Morocco which is an unlisted country for the rules that apply to the EU and certain other countries are;

_Travelling into the EU from an unlisted country

An 'unlisted' country is any country not included in the list of EU and non-EU countries.

When travelling to or returning to the UK from an unlisted country, your pet needs:

a microchip

a rabies vaccination (make sure your pet is microchipped first or the vaccination won't count)

a blood test - the vet must take the blood sample at least 30 days after the rabies vaccination (the date of vaccination counts as day 0, not day 1)

an official third country veterinary certificate

tapeworm treatment (for dogs only)

You must also use an authorised carrier and an approved route.

You must wait 3 calendar months from the date the blood sample was taken before travelling. The vet must give you a copy of the test results. These must show that the vaccination was successful.

You don't have to wait 3 months if your pet was vaccinated, blood tested and given a pet passport in the EU before travelling to an unlisted country._

Source;

https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad

If you do not follow those rules then you can only be described as smuggling the animal in.

that may not be popular with you but how else can the rules be interpreted?

I am NOT trying to cause offence - far from it, but taking an animal to Morocco cannot be considered safe IMO. I can only presume that your dog would fulfil the requirements by having the chip, vaccination and blood test with the appropriate time intervals before leaving the EU and then by following the approved route for import by an authorised carrier.

The risks of rabies being established in Britain have been well documented since there is no natural immunity within the UK.

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I have no knowledge of the dog issue when travelling but the thought of contacting rabies makes me cringe.

As to towing a car (toad), we towed for almost 20 years with large RVs and never ever knew we had anything on the back. OK a couple of times we had to reverse gently a few meteres or unhitch but the car was always a benefit.

Now with a Euro shed and only 2.8L engine I really do know the car is there. I have towed it to various events and visits but touring would be imho a struggle. OK people do it and enjoy it and even I find it a challenge. But with such low power to weight especially for an extended tour I would tend to favour a 125cc. bike/scooter option.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

What about getting a Dog box for the bike. I have seen them and as far as know its not illegal to take a dog on a bike (as far as I know). Seriously. You can get them.

You would need what I would call a "motorhome dog". Those cute little fluffy ones that the French seem to have that always come and sit on my chair or mat.

Otherwise something like this

Which kind of defeats the object but nobody would mind that on an Aire. Just because Vicarious "Some of the Aires" books says you cant have any fun at all on an Aire doesnt mean thats what goes on. Just pick carefully and you will find space for a trailer or bike (and chairs even!). Or park it outside. No biggy.


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Yes those are the rules I am following and have no intention of not declaring that we have been to Morocco.
All dogs on the pet passport scheme have to have a rabies injection before they can travel. No blood test is required for Europe. we had the blood test to allow us to visit Morocco and found that our pup was under the required pass limit and have therefore had a second injection. How many people are travelling with their dogs thinking that they have immunity when infact they don't.
We are responsible dog owners, clear up after our pups, have all the vaccinations and do not hide them in our van or smuggle them in. If I felt there was a serious risk I would not consider taking him to Morocco.
This was a thread about towing a car - not sure how it became about my quality as a dog owner. I posted 2 questions yesterday - one about towing and one about dogs on beaches in Spain and Portugal. Both threads have ended up as a "slate irresponsible dog owners" by non-dog owners - I wonder why people are leaving the forum.

Thank you to all those who have replied to the original question, your advice is very much appreciated.


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks Barryd - we have a working cocker spaniel, so not known for sitting still in a little house but wish he would sometimes. Quite fancied a little dinghy like yours but not sure we could keep him in that either - mind you he's a good swimmer and it might wear him out for once.
Thanks


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

taz said:


> Yes those are the rules I am following and have no intention of not declaring that we have been to Morocco.
> All dogs on the pet passport scheme have to have a rabies injection before they can travel. No blood test is required for Europe. we had the blood test to allow us to visit Morocco and found that our pup was under the required pass limit and have therefore had a second injection. How many people are travelling with their dogs thinking that they have immunity when infact they don't.


Thanks for adding the extra information - that makes it very clear to me that you have considered the requirements and obviously meet them fully - which was not clear before I posted what they are.

My initial involvement in this thread was in response to questions about the use of aires and the rules appertaining to them.

Those rules are clear that cars, caravans, trailers, horse boxes etc, cannot be parked in the aire spaces - they are only for motorhomes, so if you are prepared to leave your car elsewhere there should be no problem.

The antipathy of using an A frame in Spain has been well discussed on here, each to their own as regards whether they are willing to risk it and I would not offer advice on that, the potential extra costs are very high and could result in the Spanish police taking draconian action - something they have been know for in the past. But that is a risk any user must calculate for themselves.

Most threads diverge from the original topic, particularly if there is the possibility of any contentious discussion and A frames always provoke differing responses.

Dogs also attract many comments - particularly from the section of the community that are not avid dog lovers - that does NOT include us, although we do not have a dog for various reasons, I love dogs and would hate to see one fall foul of any law through an oversight by it's owners - hence my concerns. The Border Control and DEFRA are not renowned for their common sense approach to problems.

I genuinely hope that you have a very enjoyable, and hassle free 6 month trip.

Dave


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## blu66 (Dec 21, 2005)

taz said:


> Thanks Barryd - we have a working cocker spaniel, so not known for sitting still in a little house but wish he would sometimes. Quite fancied a little dinghy like yours but not sure we could keep him in that either - mind you he's a good swimmer and it might wear him out for once.
> Thanks


Would his nails not rip the boat? Just a thought as I have the same one as Barry

Alan & Kid


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

blu66 said:


> taz said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Barryd - we have a working cocker spaniel, so not known for sitting still in a little house but wish he would sometimes. Quite fancied a little dinghy like yours but not sure we could keep him in that either - mind you he's a good swimmer and it might wear him out for once.
> ...


Yes they would. Ours is a cheap one off Amazon. Ok for two or three people in flip flops but no good for a dog. You would need to get a proper Air deck type inflatable. A bit like a yacht tender. I had a Quicksilver Air Deck with an outboard. It was pretty indistructable but cost about £850 (ex outboard). You would get something robust enough for much less though.

Sounds like quite a trip and I hope you pull it off. We took the car with us for the first time at Christmas but we were in the same place for nearly three weeks. A very useful asset for that type of holiday. Im wondering if your touring, using Aires, Ferrys etc and not staying too long in one place if its going to be worth all the hassle. Parking is generally easier in Europe and most Aires are in spitting distance of where you want to be.

As mentioned you could always rent a car for a while or even a bike. Now theres an idea. Take off across the Sahara on one of those big Paris Dakar enduro bikes!!  Yes! Morroco here I come!

Dont do a Mark Thatcher though.


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