# Turning into a tight driveway? Is there a calculation for it



## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi,
fairly new to the site but love reading & learning from the Forum. 
I have a Delfin Performance T821, twin axle, Renault Master cab. 
Have done about 6,000 km around Ireland this summer so far and have been into a few tight spots, no bumps or bruises,, yet!. 
In Sept. heading for a place we have the use of in Spain, near Estepona. I'm there now & reckon it'll be tight to get into the driveway. 
Here are the relevanty dimensions. Road width 6 mt 90cm, between the driveway pillars 2mt 90cm. Van, 8mt 20cm and 2mt 30 wide
Thanks anyone
Brian


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Happy

I think you will have to change your username if you try to get in there!! 8O 8O 

I'm sure there is a calculation, but in your place wouldn't bother with it. I would do a scale drawing of the road and gateway, then cut out a bit of card (at the same scale :wink: ) to the dimensions of your truck.

The distance the gateway is set back from the road will be critical. 8O 

It should be fairly easy then to see if you have a realistic chance of getting in without knocking the gateposts over.

Sorry to be pessimistic, but my guess would be "No". 

Hope this helps


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I know I have to make wide ( very) turns. I use the follwing method.


Take as much of the road as you need to get round.

Take as much time as you need.

Dont start the manouver untill its reasonably quiet and you are as safe as possible.


e.g on a clock face.

Driving from 6 to 12 oclock. and you in spain, so you're on the right half of the road. You want to turn left, to 9 oclock.

so, tuck yourself into the gutter, ( rhd side of your road.) signalliing left, and when safe, take a wide turn and see if you can get into the gate as straight as possible. if you cant get straight, reverse adequately, with someone looking at the back end to see oncoming traffic.

same principle applies, only the other way round if you turn right( To 3 oclock.)

Easy really, when you get it right, or if your typing.


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## kenp (Sep 8, 2006)

BHappy,

Why not find a quiet carpark (perhaps a school out of term or friendly pub) and mark the dimensions on the ground using plastic bottles. You could then practice to your heart's content.

Kenp


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

it is possible to calculate, but three more parameters would be needed: The van's turning circle, the wheelbase and, most important, the rear overhang. So the distance between rear axle and van's stern. 

But my crude guess is that it will not work out.  

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Mat7 (May 15, 2005)

Do you have to drive in???
it is often alot easier to reverse in to tight openings.


Cheers 
Matt


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

I put my money on NO.

The overhang will kill you. 

Though I can't get my head round which of the axles you "pivot" round when turning, maybe midway, in which case the overhang is seriously massive.

If you do take up the good idea of scale models then the problem is judging how the back axles turn.

How about a 1:1 scale model - local supermarket early morning, a few cardboard boxes and try it.


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

kenp said:


> Why not find a quiet carpark (perhaps a school out of term or friendly pub) and mark the dimensions on the ground using plastic bottles. You could then practice to your heart's content.
> Kenp


Oops - just replied to an earlier post and used your idea - so that's 2 votes for a 1:1 scale attempt.


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

In my opinion - only with 20/20 hindsight, after you've had a quote for the damage.....

Smick


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

I think that it might just be possible to reverse in if you have a rear overhang of six foot or more. Get the overhang in and get square to the entrance just as the rear axel enters the gap.

That's easy for me to say, isn't it.

I agree with the others. A 1:1 scale trial and let us know the results.


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

I agree with Matt - reversing would be easier
Richard


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi BHappy

I, in my wisdom are going to say yes, as long as the overhang from the back wheel to the rear of the moterhome can cross over the kerb at the opposite side of the road from the gate, in other words back up to the kerb and touch the kerb with the back wheels, this should give you enough room to then manoeuvre forward through the gate.

There I've done it again stuck my head above the parapet, be gentle.

Best Regards
Broom


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Sorry to hijack your thread BHappy but I have a sort of opposite dilemma.

I already get Vin Gris (4.8m Transit PVC) into our drive OK and I know that Tucano's Autotrail Apache (7m) just will not fit.

We're hoping to get a 6m long Hymler and I'm concerned I won't get it round the required 90 degree left turn inside our gates. For info. the gates are on brick pillars and the gateway is 14ft wide. The worry points are the left hand gate pillar and the front right corner of the house. 

See diagram (clickable to enlarge) below.

Any ideas?

SDA


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Similar problem to what we had Andy.

I knocked the gate post down . . . . with a sledge hammer I quickly add!! 8O 8O 8O 

The truck is more important than a gate post, to us anyway!!


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

if at all, then anyway only reversing into the drive is possible. As a matter of fact, I had not even considered the possibility of driving in forward.

But, meanwhile I have made some less rough estimates (AKA calculations :wink: ), and perhaps I have to revise my first assumption:

To be able to "squeeze" just into the driveway, the angle between road and van must be at least 53 degrees, otherwise it will not fit.

_Angle = arcsin(van width / driveway width)_

If the van now stands at an angle of 53 degrees to the road, it blocks about 6.5 of the available 6.9 metres road width. So, depending on wheelbase, turning circle and rear overhang, it might just be possible to reverse in.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks dave, hope I am replying properly. As a result of another reply I have checked the following. The pillars are only set back from the road 90 cms. The road set up is such there is no space to put the overhang beyond the kerb,,, tough one. and I guess the overhang is 2.20 / 2.40, but I am checking this and the turning circle with the dealer this afternoon. Also, really like the suggestion of plactic bottles & an big empty carpark.
thanks again.... Brian


Zebedee said:


> Hi Happy
> 
> I think you will have to change your username if you try to get in there!! 8O 8O
> 
> ...


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks Adrian,I have had to do something similar, but I had a wider roadway to work with.. As a result of another reply I have checked the following. The pillars are only set back from the road 90 cms. The road set up is such there is no space to put the overhang beyond the kerb,,, tough one. and I guess the overhang is 2.20 / 2.40, but I am checking this and the turning circle with the dealer this afternoon. Also, really like the suggestion of plactic bottles & an big empty carpark. 
thanks again.... Brian



bandaid said:


> I know I have to make wide ( very) turns. I use the follwing method.
> 
> Take as much of the road as you need to get round.
> 
> ...


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks, I am chasing up the other dimensions & will get back to you. Brian


Boff said:


> Hi,
> 
> it is possible to calculate, but three more parameters would be needed: The van's turning circle, the wheelbase and, most important, the rear overhang. So the distance between rear axle and van's stern.
> 
> ...


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi BHappy

In view of that new bit of Info I would say no chance, I am going on what I have to do, which is very similar, but my motorhome is shorter and I can only just get in.

Best Regards
Broom


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

I kind of agree Except, no space to accommodaye the overhang ! No space on the far side of the road & on my side 90 cms beyond edge of kerb. Thanks 


Broom said:


> Hi BHappy
> 
> I, in my wisdom are going to say yes, as long as the overhang from the back wheel to the rear of the moterhome can cross over the kerb at the opposite side of the road from the gate, in other words back up to the kerb and touch the kerb with the back wheels, this should give you enough room to then manoeuvre forward through the gate.
> 
> ...


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Tight corner*

Hi

I think you will get in but it will be tight. Reverse in and if possible, carry out the manoeuvre so you drive past the opening and reverse in with plenty of "left hand down" - I always find that easier. Have an assistant though.

R


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Gerhard, I think will the extra information you requested you will be able to give a "calculated definitive answer". as soon as I have it will send it to you. Tks a mil Brian


Boff said:


> if at all, then anyway only reversing into the drive is possible. As a matter of fact, I had not even considered the possibility of driving in forward.
> 
> But, meanwhile I have made some less rough estimates (AKA calculations :wink: ), and perhaps I have to revise my first assumption:
> 
> ...


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread BHappy but I have a sort of opposite dilemma.
> 
> I already get Vin Gris (4.8m Transit PVC) into our drive OK and I know that Tucano's Autotrail Apache (7m) just will not fit.
> 
> ...


I'd make another gate where, ( on your diagram) the van now sits. With a decent width, and some gates which either open out to the road, or better till, ( and more expensively) slide, you may stand a chance of accessing the vehicle. Actually, I spose, the other alternative is to have very lightweight gates, and just lift them off.


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

I agree with others, go for reversing in. Since the track on reverse is different to forwards, you don't want to get in only to find you can't get it out again!  I have once had to get the back wheels of an artic trolley-jacked over to get out of a bad bend in the middle of Sandwich town. Not funny at the time...   
Patrick


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

bandaid said:


> I'd make another gate where, ( on your diagram) the van now sits. With a decent width, and some gates which either open out to the road, or better till, ( and more expensively) slide, you may stand a chance of accessing the vehicle. Actually, I spose, the other alternative is to have very lightweight gates, and just lift them off.


I left some details out of the diagram I'm afraid Adrian, but the pictures might make it clearer.

There's another small tree 10ft along from the cherry and another big one a further 12 ft along. The fence posts are at 6ft centres all the way along. Not sure if the Council would be happy for me to form a second entrance onto the road :roll:

SDA


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

Looking at the picture, Andy, I'd say you're struggling. My Starline 640 would just about have done it, but it had a Merc turning circle, rather than a Sevel one which is less forgiving. I think you might have to resign yourself to losing the gate post on the left as you look at it, and replacing the gates with a single five barred alloy gate, with a wheel to support the open end, hung from the RH post. This should probably open inwards, so that angling the front end of the van is easier.

This would give you the opening, though I think you may still have a problem with tree branches, and is that a carport I see beyond the van ? Bear in mind that your Hymer will be in the region of 3m high...

Is there anyone you know who has a similar size van who will come and experiment with you ?

Hope it works out.

Smick


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

smick said:


> Looking at the picture, Andy, I'd say you're struggling. My Starline 640 would just about have done it, but it had a Merc turning circle, rather than a Sevel one which is less forgiving. I think you might have to resign yourself to losing the gate post on the left as you look at it, and replacing the gates with a single five barred alloy gate, with a wheel to support the open end, hung from the RH post. This should probably open inwards, so that angling the front end of the van is easier.
> 
> This would give you the opening, though I think you may still have a problem with tree branches, and is that a carport I see beyond the van ? Bear in mind that your Hymer will be in the region of 3m high...
> 
> ...


Hi Smick,

Thanks for the thoughts.

Funnily enough just after we moved in to the house I happened to lean on the left hand gate, near the latch. As it's 7ft long it imparts a fulcrum effect and I discovered that the brick pillar lifted up slightly as the cement bond has gone near the base. It won't shift sideways at all because of the weight of the bricks on top but it's not as strong as it looks :roll:

At present our swb Tranny fits snuggly round to the left and the tree branches just touch the roof (9ft 3ins). You probably can't make it out but in the photo's the van is parked up in front of our integral garage which is where Mrs SDA normally parks her Toyota. If you had an inward opening grand alloy gate as you suggest you would get the Toyota in but you wouldn't be able to close the gate. 

A Hymer B564 would just fit between the garage and gate but I don't think you'd be able to open the gate inwards to access the property.

What you thought might be a carport is just the wind out awning being aired.

I've often said to Mrs SDA that we should demolish the current garage which would give us an 11ft by 25ft parking space beside the kitchen and try and get permission to build a detached garage parallel with the road and to the left of tree in the photo below. It's easy for cars to get in that area if necessary as I've proved with the Tranny.

That seems rather an expensive option though.

SDA


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

I think with only 60cm clearance between posts and your van you are not going to make it no matter how straight you reverse or drive in, simply because bits stick out on a m/h that you are not expecting and those hinges on the gateposts are lethal to a vans bodywork.

Does your van width measurement include your wing mirrors or not??

Perhaps you could cut a length of wood the same width as your m/h at widenst point and lay it in gateway, that way you can get into your mind, just how little gap there is between you and the gateposts.....

Good luck chap, I think you should take the advice of others and dismantle the gatepost it would be a lot cheaper!!


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



bouncer said:


> I think with only 60cm clearance between posts and your van you are not going to make it no matter how straight you reverse or drive in


Clearance is not an issue. Approach angle is.

In my driveway I have a total clearance of no more than about 30 cm between gate posts and the van's _body!_ So 15 cm on each side. Means that I have to fold in the mirrors before finally the cab passes through. No problem at all!

But: Once somebody had (illegally) parked a car on the road opposite to my driveway, just when we wanted to start into our summer hols. :evil: I had absolutely no chance getting the van out, and the owner of the car was nowhere to be found. Luckily, with the help of some neighbours we managed to push away the car a bit, otherwise we would have had no other choice than calling the police and have the car towed.

So what I want to calculate, once Bhappy gives me the data, is whether it is possible at all to turn the van on the road to the minimum approach angle of 53 degrees without crashing into anything.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

Blimey, Andy, you're beginning to think like me - let's knock the house down to get the van in...far more important !


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Hi Bouncer,
"IF " I could get it straight on I think I'd make it. The van measurements included the mirrors, they were widest point measurements. BUT I just don't think I'll be able to get it straight enough. The road width dimensions are to the kerb on each side, there is no room beyond the kerb for the overhang of the van. I am pretty much resigned to finding a secure friendly location nearby to park in.Thanks for your thoughts on it
Brian


bouncer said:


> I think with only 60cm clearance between posts and your van you are not going to make it no matter how straight you reverse or drive in, simply because bits stick out on a m/h that you are not expecting and those hinges on the gateposts are lethal to a vans bodywork.
> 
> Does your van width measurement include your wing mirrors or not??
> 
> ...


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi Brian,

again: Reversing into a driveway with 60 cm total clearance between the gate posts is easy, piece of cake. No problem. In particular if this clearance is measured _including_ the wing mirrors. As said: The clearance I have to deal with every day is 30 cm _excluding wing mirrors!_ And if you don't get it straight enough at first attempt, then it only requires a bit of going back and forth.

The problem is: Will you get the van as it is, with its turning circle and rear overhang, from driving direction on the road into the required approach angle *before* hitting one of the gate posts with the overhang?

It will certainly require going back and forth several times, and there may be no other obstacles like parked cars, but I would guess it is possible.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## BHappy (Mar 23, 2008)

Boff said:


> Hi,
> 
> it is possible to calculate, but three more parameters would be needed: The van's turning circle, the wheelbase and, most important, the rear overhang. So the distance between rear axle and van's stern.
> 
> ...


... Thanks for your interest.... just to confirm... I got it in wth some very careful reversing and a little guidance from the Missus.


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