# Anyone driving MAN-based Concorde?



## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Hi,

We are thinking of buying a MAN truck based Concorde, Cruiser C1.

Has anyone got one, or any other model with a MAN chassis?

What I mean is- is it easy to drive, given its truck nature and high centre of gravity?

I am still in process of getting my LGV license, so can't test drive one yet, unfortunately  

But I am looking forward to it!!!

Any comments will be much appreciated.

Cheers


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi.
Our Liner is on the MAN TGL 10.240 chassis.....10000kg gross vehicle weight and 240bhp turbodiesel. It has a 12 speed Tipmatic gearbox (auto with optional manual override) and Brakematic (selectable auto engine braking).
It's a 2007 model; there was a significant upgrade by MAN in 2009 (I think) so 2009 onwards would get you some improvement, particularly with the new 250bhp motor. 
The MAN part is brilliant...steady and solid and totally reliable with great support from the MAN TruckandBus network. The gearbox is very intuitive, more so than many automatic cars I've driven...I particularly like the selectable manoeuvring gears (fwd and reverse), excellent power steering and really good turning circle, though you have to get used to the rear overhang pretty quickly!.
View from the big bus mirrors and reversing cam are excellent and on the road it's smooth, stable, quiet and very comfortable indeed. We drove it from North Yorks to Cornwall recently, and it just ticked over at 60 on the motorway, coping very well with sidewinds and truck turbulence and with plenty of power to spare. Pleasantly surprised at the 17-20mpg also.
I can highly recommend it; relaxing and a great travelling space with excellent visibility. 
I did the LGV Class2 last summer, having had a little prior experience on 7.5 ton vans some yrs ago, so I'm no big truck expert. I found it a pretty straightforward conversion; certainly a lot easier than the 1995 Scania I took my test in!!!
The MAN chassis feels like a good match for the Liner body at 10 metres long and 2.5 wide...I wouldn't want something that size on an Iveco Daily or similar, as I'd feel the chassis was operating at its limits the whole time. And we like the 2300kg payload.......

Hope that helps;be glad to provide more if you wish it.

Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Ian thanks a lot for your response, very informative!

Especially I am surprised at the 17-20 mpg figures that you've given! This is very efficient, in my opinion.

When I asked Bill from southdowns about it he was much more pessimistic and said it is likely to be 10-13 mpg for 8 800 MAM vehicle...

Also he said that the bigger 6 cylinder engine is more efficient than the smaller 4 cylinder one, which sounds a bit strange too...


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi
Re mpg figures: I think the Liner is probably more aerodynamically efficient than the Cruiser which may make some difference.
I have no experience with the 4 cyl motor, but the 6 cyl 6.9 litre turbodiesel has lots of power to spare so it never has to work hard which is going to make it more fuel efficient; ours has never been out of the green zone on the rev counter and at 60mph in 12th gear it's doing something like 1400 rpm. The 17-20mpg is when mainly motorway driving; it's not quite that good on more general roads, though not far off.
Regards
Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Ian thanks!

I have read your previous posts on here and it seems you have already done all the research and findings that we are doing now!  

I'd be very grateful if you could spare some of your time and share your experience with a younger follower!  

In my calculations the weight of our MH is coming to 7700 kg with a MAM of 8800kg, which is ok in terms of payload, but would this weight and its length of 8.35m be a problem if we decided to take a ferry and go to Sardinia, for example?

Another issue is to do with the vehicle specification, which has to be sorted before we place an order.

If we have a marine toilet with 230L built-in tank and a 320L tank of fresh water, would a standard waste water tank of 230L be more than enough? Or it is better to go with a larger, 320L tank?

Logically, 230L tank should do it, but still not 100% sure!

Also with the power reserve question. 

If we have three 160 Ah AGM batteries with 5 kW peak output, 120L bulk gas tank and two solar panels, should we go for the 2.6 kW gas generator as well?

I know it all depends on how much power we're going to use and whether we stay on sites with a hook-up. But given we go wild camping most of the time and use computers/watch TV all the time, what do you reckon?

Bearing in mind ALDE heating system is going to work all the time during winter trips, and air-conditioning during the summer?

There is an option of 320 Ah lithium ion battery instead of 3 AGM ones- is there a difference altogether?

Sorry for all the questions :roll: as I understand there is little difference between a liner and a cruiser in terms of all these habitation systems...


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have a Charisma, but these issues it should not matter:



Soldat said:


> If we have a marine toilet with 230L built-in tank and a 320L tank of fresh water, would a standard waste water tank of 230L be more than enough? Or it is better to go with a larger, 320L tank?


I have 230L waste only and find that when the toilet tank gets full the waste tanks is not far behind. And the freshwater tank is almost empty. So the balance work well for me.



Soldat said:


> There is an option of 320 Ah lithium ion battery instead of 3 AGM ones- is there a difference altogether?


The LiIon battery can be totally emptied but the AGM ones only down to about 50%. So with the same Ah you double the usable time with the LiIon. But it probably still cost quite a bit more?

As for generators I have a Efoy which is keeping me with power in the winter and on rainy days. In the summer the solar cell is enough. Nice and quiet but not cheap.


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

If you are using aircon off grid for any length of time you will need a generator, if parked beside others you will not be popular.

We have aircon in our Charisma but never use it even in +30 C.


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## oldtart (Mar 18, 2006)

Our daughter's horse box is based on a 7.5ton Man. She and Dave say it's great to drive and other friends who have used it all comment on how easy it is! Don't know if this is any help!!

Val


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi 
Can't help with all your questions I don't think...we all have different ways of doing things and I don't think there are hard and fast rules on what's enough and what isn't. I can tell you what we've experienced so far:

Been living in the Liner full time for last 6 months...just in the UK so far so don't know about ferries yet. The biggest motorhome I've taken to Sardinia was a 7.5m Chausson and that was fine; Sardinia is motorhome paradise by the way.

In terms of size of tanks and batteries and stuff it depends what you're doing. We've done a little wild camping as people call it...though it doesn't feel the same in the Liner as it did when I was in my twenties and carrying everything on my back along most of the UKs long distance footpaths and round the Highlands and the Alps. Bit old for that now! So mainly camping and caravan sites so far.

We have 3x145ah batteries, a 2.9kw generator and 500w solar power. the generator has not been used and the batteries have never been less than full...I don't know if that helps or not! We probably use more electricity than most with a washing machine, espresso machine, lots of AV stuff..we like our music, cameras and laptops and do quite a lot of cooking, breadmaking and stuff; and we make films. We also tend to use the ALDE heating on electric when we can to save on LPG; there seem to be fewer and fewer working and accessible LPG pumps around these days! What I will say is that the power system works faultlessly and is cleverer than me at using the available resources.

We have a 120l LPG tank and 2x13kg bottles (how many litres in one of those?). The bottles haven't been used and the gas tank, filled up whenever we change site, usually once a month, has never been less than half full, even though we seem to use it quite a lot. The tank is very economical.

Our marine toilet has a 200l holding tank, and we have a 350l fresh and 350l waste tank. As Christine mentioned, there seems to be a balance there. I generally empty both and fill the fresh tank once every 3 days or so and nothing's ever run out or overflowed! I'm sure I could leave them longer, though I haven't found the level indicators particularly accurate. One thing that did surprise me is the amount of water that the marine toilet uses..if wildcamping you'd have to be a bit careful with it without access to a tap. Concorde recommended at the time ours was built (2007) that a second 350l fresh tank was a good idea with marine toilet; I have thought about having one retrofitted.

I don't know if any of that will help you make your decisions...I think that your plans and ways of doing things should govern your decisions! Glad to help if it's helpful..just ask if there's anything else.
We're sitting just outside St Ives in Cornwall looking out over the sea at the moment, and six months into our new life I just wish we'd done it years ago.

Regards
Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks for your answers!

Ian is absolutely right here - no one but ourselves know what we'd need or not in our travels, but it is nevertheless VERY useful to know what issues or other problems one faces in very similar motorhome!

I really like the full timing lifestyle that Ian is enjoying at the moment, and would love to do it myself one day!

But unfortunately it is impossible at present with all the work and other commitments in hand... And of course this translates onto what we need to have in our motorhome, for it to be occupied only limited amount of time per year.

What about the auto-levelling jack system? Is this heavy and costly piece of kit something that could proof to be useful to have?

I have heard that this system takes the pressure off/unloads the chassis when it is on... :!: 

I would suggest that using levelling blocks can be tricky given the size of the van, with double wheels at the rear axel... :? 

To selstrom: are you not using your air-can because it is annoying your neigbours with the generator on, or for some other reason? 

Is it powered by electricity only?



Cheers


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi
A quick reply as we're just about to go out:
The hydraulic self levelling system is in my opinion essential and well worth the investment. With a vehicle the size of ours it's realistically the only way of doing it. It's quick and accurate and saves a lot of discomfort; I find sleeping on a slope almost impossible.
It's also true to say the jacks relieve the load on suspension,wheels etc, and because the rear pair are some way behind the rear axle they make the whole rig much more stable...you feel a noticeable difference when moving around inside which you wouldn't get with blocks or ramps, even if they would work with a vehicle of this size (which I doubt and wouldn't consider trying).
If I was ordering a new one after our experience with the current vehicle it would probably be top of the list of essential add-ons. But then, you're a lot younger than we are.........can't believe I'll be 62 on Sunday. Where does your life go?
Regards
Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks for your advise Ian.

I work in a financial sector, and a lot of it involves communicating with clients over internet. I hope I'd be able to take my work home, or rather motorhome, which would allow us to go more or less full timing.

I see a lot of couples/families of my age group with their internet blogs that managed to do just that. It is great!!!

We would love to travel the UK first, go to Scotland and Ireland in particular... And then go to Scandinavian countries, followed by Italy and Greece...

Also to take our MH transatlantic and conquer America, but that is pretty ambitious by now !  

There is so much to see and explore! 

And should the opportunity arise we will surely take advantage of it!


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

Soldat said:


> To selstrom: are you not using your air-can because it is annoying your neigbours with the generator on, or for some other reason?
> 
> Is it powered by electricity only?


Yes, and that is the problem. Someone with a Concorde Credo with a fabric fitted A/C in the roof tried to use it while driving. But it used more power than the alternator could make. They fitted a much larger alternator so they could use it while driving (since their cab had no A/C) but I do not think it would run at all (or only for a few minutes) just from batteries.


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

We have no generator. Had one on our previous MH and never used it.

Do not use aircon as we normally sit outside when weather good and often do not have mains power.

Cab aircon for traveling a must.

We have 350 lt fresh and grey water tanks with a 170 lt black tank. With both of us having a shower every day we can get 5 to seven days from tank of water. Black tank also lasts 5 to 7 days. Grey tank rarely gets above 50%. Gauges are not reliable.


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Just out of interest. When you have an onboard black tank / marine toilet. How do you go about emptying these? (as in, where does it go?)


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Just out of interest. When you have an onboard black tank / marine toilet. How do you go about emptying these? (as in, where does it go?)


The same place as the grey water, I would always check on a CL/CS that the grey does not go to a soakaway.


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

At home with mains drainage (or in my case for the last thirty yrs a septic tank) the black waste from the house would go the same way as the grey...the only reason it's different on some sites is that site owners and clubs don't take any account of holding tank/macerator systems; to them, all waste is either grey or chemical. In theory waste from our holding tank should go straight in the site drainage system as it's chemical free and without any solid bits; I always discuss this with site owners and have as yet not met one who had a problem with it. If the grey waste is to a soakaway I'll empty the black into the chemical waste point on a site, but haven't had to do that so far. We carry a wasteroll and 2 lengths (5m and 2m) of 40mm diameter hose with bayonet connectors for tank emptying.

Ian


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

Just regarding the op high centre of gravity comment, on my little truck the vast majority of the weight sits at or below the chassis rails. The chassis is quite flexy by design, and the body is quite tall so it looks quite alarming at times, but the reality is there isn't much of its weight high up at all.

We have a (hand pumped) marine loo, 270 ish litres of fresh, 70 ish of grey, 70 ish of black which seems fine for the two of us. The grey needs emptying most often of course, and if stationary for a while I don't mind decanting it off as needed. 

We often have an eeek it out mindset, I can imagine with big tanks we might have nice long showers just because we can, and so you need the capacity.

Nudging 20mpg sounds very appealing, but I think you can have a 500+hp MAN engine with mega geared auto too. I'd love to try that! 8)


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks for your contribution, very informative indeed!

I have never used a marine toilet, but I suppose it flushes with water from the fresh tank.

And probably amount of water used in the process can be regulated with a button/lever, enabling you to control the use of water more?

:? 

In the options list I can choose between a cassette and marine type toilet, with the former coming with an additional cassette system. 

More puzzled over which one to choose now!!!


Also to the water usage question. 

My wife expressed a view that in the long trip a washing machine can be an essential item to have onboard, given that we stay off campsites...

Has anyone installed something like in the picture below in theirs garage?
(Probably Ian has!)

And If so, which washing machine make fits best for the purpose and how have you gone about it technically? 



Probably feeding the water to it from the fresh tank with a separate waste container?
- surely pouring chemicals from the washing machine into your main waste water tank is not a good idea?

Cheers


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

The waste water from the washing machine will be OK in your grey water tank.

If you are not going to use sites, would a Launderette would be more sencible?


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have one of these:

http://www.towsure.com/product/Twin_Tub_Washing_Machine










Much lighter than a traditional machine, but it's not full automatic. That is I have to fill it with water manually and start the rinse and spin cycles myself. But it does not weigh much.

I keep it in the garage then carry it into the bathroom on laundry days. Or use it outside in the summer. Fill it up with water from the shower and the waste water I let it pump into the shower or into a bucket when outside.

Works well for me! Even prefer this one over the public ones when on camp sites.


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

You could check out the Good Ideas twin tub....best we could find after a lot of research

Ian


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## taz (Sep 28, 2005)

Hi
Quick question for Christine (sorry to hijack mid thread) - what sort of loads can the twin tub cope with? Would it do double bedding? Also how efficient is the spin cycle? Have toyed with buying one but wondered whether it is a replacement for launderettes or really just for emergencies/wild camping.
We're about to get off for 6 months and the laundry is one of my concerns - not a problem on any of our shorter trips but obv essential now!
Thanks
Sally


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

Our twin tub cost £80.00 It will take a double duvet cover and two pillow cases as a single load. The spinner is quite good for its size. Not as good as a "proper one obviously, but more that acceptable. We've had ours for three years now and it's more than paid for itself over the time.


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

For Taz:
Don't know about the Royal but our Good Ideas twintub has 3.5kg washing and 2kg spin capacity. We've washed a kingsize duvet cover in it but it was too big for the spinner....a shame as the spinner is really quite effective. We prefer using the machine to campsite machines.
Hope this helps
Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks for quick response!

We have gone slightly off topic by now, but it is so great to have all the questions answered in one go!

One thing is clear: MAN chassis is the one to go for! 8) 

And is it as economical as it gets in terms of mpg (given the vehicle weight), too!

Taking my LGV test on the 7th of May and test driving the Cruiser shortly thereafter! Fingers crossed!  


Cheers


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

Best of luck, Kosta! Only two years since I took my C1. It was lots of fun. 


To Kaz: Never tried beddings in it, but I will try. Had to double check and i have the largest from Good Ideas - not the Royal I linked to earlier.


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you Christine! 

I am feeling confident about it for some reason, which is good!


Cheers


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Good luck with the Class C test. I did it in Berwick-upon-Tweed last June...I guess London will be a little different!

Ian


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks Ian!

I will be taking my test in Wembley.

The funny thing is that it is going to be that old and rumbling Scania as well!

I am sure I will feel the difference when I sit behind M.A.N. afterwards :lol: 

Cheers


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## Soldat (Mar 25, 2013)

Hi,

Just had test driven Concorde Cruiser C1 940!

What can I say - I am well impressed! Its 12 speed automatic gearbox works like a a clock and always chooses the right gear depending on circumstances.

Especially I noticed the difference when going uphill - by the sounds of it there was a lot going on in the transmission but one thing that never changed was the speed I was traveling- it just froze where I wanted it to be!

Also I noticed a very short movement amplitude for both the accelerator and brake pedals- which is a big difference to the Scania truck that I took my test in. 

Yet the vehicle is very responsive to the pressure applied to the pedals, particularly with the brake- it just slows the 7 tonne truck to a halt in no time if you press a little harder!

A very relaxing drive. 

Looking forward to drive my own next time!

Cheers


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