# Everything Damp !



## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

I posted earlier about having white dusty mould on the internal walls of my motorhome and high air relative humidity (actually 98% - same as outside air) despite all the windows being open a crack and having a Heki permanent ventilation skylight. This arrangement seems to provide one air change per hour and thus the internal humidity closely tracks the outside humidity which hasn’t fallen below 90% for weeks now.
Being relatively new to motor homing I asked if this was typical for this time of year and bearing in mind all the rain we have had.
Respondents replied that it was NOT normal.
So today I started to investigate further. I went round with a damp meter on it and found areas which sent the meter into the red zone. 
There was some damp and softness in the floor around the habitation door and quite large areas of the roof panel went into the danger zone.
Even internal shelves which have no contact with walls or roof were damp inside. I suspect that over the last few weeks they have gradually absorbed water from the saturated air.
The cab area was worst. The front windscreen always has condensation along its lower edge. I also found that water is dripping from the lower edge of the one piece glass fibre overcab. There are no joins in the overcab so I can only assume that it is condensation. It appears that there is no, or inadequate, insulation so air is condensing against the roof of the overcab and running down into the motorhome where it is damaging the internal walls behind the cab seats.

So I need to get the roof areas sorted and also around the door. But I am coming to the conclusion that the problem is mostly this damp winter.
Forum members suggested that:
I should install a dehumidifier – but with one air change an hour that’s going to be expensive
Take it for a run out; but again with one air change an hour I would soon be back to square one
Heat the motorhome; but mould grows faster above 5degC.

In two weeks it is due for a habitation check by the dealer who sold it to me but in the meantime I have put an ordinary 240v domestic fan in the cab area to reduce the condensation there.
I would be very grateful if a few members of this forum go out and check their motor homes with a damp meter and report whether they can see similar problems?
Sorry this post has been so long.


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi Davys

The short answer is "it's not right" damp meter readings should not go into red and there should be no condensation in the over cab area if the inside and outside temperatures are the same which they should be with ventilation.

Martin


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi DavyS

It is not unusual to have a small amount of condensation on the windscreen at this time of year, but it is unusual to get it anywhere else unless there is significant damp inside the van already.

You say that the floor around the hab door is soft. This sounds serious as it should not be like that and I suspect that water ingress is causing the problem. Condensation from the air would not cause that amount of damage.

As I posted earlier, IF your van is a Swift Sundance, there have been many cases of damp in them caused mainly by side skirts not being sealed properly. I used to own one and had serious problems which resulted in the van going back to the Swift factory twice for major repairs. I also had damp in the roof caused by a badly fitted Status Aerial and around a roof light as well.

You don't say how long you have had your van, but if you have bought it within the last year from a dealer and the damp tests are as bad as you say, you should be able to get the dealer to fix it free as the problem wll almost certainly have been there for more than a year.

My damp problems did not appear until my van was nearly two years old, but by then the floor was so spongy around the hab door that the electric step practically fell off as the bolts securing it pulled through the floor.

As a further check, I would use your damp meter all around the perimeter of the floor underneath the van up to about 30 - 40cms in from the edge. The floor there should be hard (not spongy) and dry. Also if your van is a Swift and the floor underneath looks like it is covered in black plastic, this is also part of the cause of the problem. Swift removed the plastic covering on mine and replaced the rotten plywood with new (It is also painted black but now obviously wood and not plastic)

Hope its not as bad as it sounds. 

Dave


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am hoping that the damp warranty is still valid and that your habitation check is done to maintain this warranty. Several months ago there was a long thread running on exactly your problem and with Swift build quality. In fairness to Swift, I believe that they repaired under warranty many of the vans with this problem.
I cannot see why you might think that having a gentle heat running inside the van should exacerbate the problem. Like many others, I have an oil rad and sometimes a warm air fan set to cut in at around 10`c. I can also state that my van is dusty dry inside.
From what I recall the floor problem was a wood base enclosed in plastic which was prone to minor road damage, thereby allowing water and moisture into the plastic where it could not dry out.
I truly hope that I am wrong about this, to the extent that I pay around £200 a year to have the van re-sealed to extend the damp warranty.

Good luck!

Alan


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

VanFlair said:


> Hi Davys
> 
> .. there should be no condensation in the over cab area if the inside and outside temperatures are the same which they should be with ventilation.
> 
> Martin


Martin, thanks for that but I am a bit sceptical. 
I would imagine that as night comes on the windscreen and overcab roof cool very rapidly since neither insulated (frost forms on roofs of cars) and then the humidity in the internal air will condense on those cold surfaces.
If ventilation is good and air is being drawn in at the ambient temperature, for instance 5deg, and that air passes over the cold surfaces then there will be condensation.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

It is not how it should be and you obviously have some serious damp issues that the supplying dealer needs to fix. I would be disinclined to do anything to remove the damp before the van goes in for a hab check in two weeks as I would want the dealer to witness exactly what you have seen with your damp meter.


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

DavyS said:


> VanFlair said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Davys
> ...


If your theory is correct, then all cars would have condensation on the inside of their windows after a cold night, but that will only happen IF there is already a high moisture content inside the vehicle. To have the levels of moisture in your van that causes drips off the cab roof, there must be significant moisture inside the van - probably from water ingress.

Dave


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Simple answer to your question, NO there should not be as much as you describe. If the floor and area surrounding the leisure door is soft, write down the problem and take this and the van back to the dealer straight away and ask him to sort it out please.Do not waste your time and money having any sort of service until this has been rectified.

cabby

ps, as a matter of interest who is the dealer.


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

DavyS said:


> VanFlair said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Davys
> ...


If that was the case all motorhomes, caravans etc that are laid up in the winter would have the same problem, which clearly they do not.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

If the worst comes to the worst and I hope it does not, there is a treatment I believe where you can inject the floor when it is dry, that solidifies the soft material. I read this only a couple of weeks ago either here or in MMM.
Alan


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

cabby is right

Take itstrait back to the dealer

NOW

Aldra


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have been out in my Kontiki this evening and its not damp in anyway, I don't wont to alarm you but I agree with the other guys, back to dealers and get it sorted PDQ !


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Our trailer sits with the top opening windows open for most of the winter, and we have no condensation issue at all. The floor is not affected by damp as it is GRP Honeycomb, but the seating cushions and all the curtains are fine, nothing on the inside of the roof (which is uninsulated)

You seem to have a lot of water getting in, and you really need to get it sorted out before it wrecks the body.

We had condensation in our Discovery a week or so back and found one of the sunroofs damaged by falling debris, that took about a week to drip enough water onto the rear carpet and start the condensation on the windows.

We repaired that before going to Scotland last week and despite some pretty awful weather, the vehicle has stayed condensation free.

It took us three days to get the rear carpet reasonably dry.

Peter


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## sweetie (Nov 28, 2005)

Charisma said:


> Hi DavyS
> 
> It is not unusual to have a small amount of condensation on the windscreen at this time of year, but it is unusual to get it anywhere else unless there is significant damp inside the van already.
> 
> ...


My Bessacarr had the soft under floor problems and was repaired by swift early last year. But luckily no damp inside.

I have left 2 of the side windows open on one catch since we last used van at end of october and have no damp at all inside and all bedding has been left on the over cab bed and I have just gone out to check and all dry and no smell of any mould.

Seems you have a serious damp problem and I would be taking it back to dealer straight away not waiting any longer.

If you are putting heat into motorhome without putting silver screens on you could possibly get more condensation on the windscreen and cab side windows.

Hope you can get it sorted out Quickly.
My dealer was great when I found mine.

Steve


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

So motorhomes should not have condensation during prolonged damp weather - even if it has been the wettest for many years.
Although it is already booked into the dealer for a habitation check at the end of this month, I have this morning emailed the dealer listing the problems.
Hopefully it wont be too late.

Thanks everyone.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

DavyS said:


> So motorhomes should not have condensation during prolonged damp weather . . .


Shouldn't have _much _condensation . . . :wink:

A little is inevitable, but it shouldn't be enough to cause concern - unless there is a leak, which seems very likely in your case.

Condensation occurs when (mostly) hard surfaces are cooler than the surrounding, moisture-laden air. Most of the time this doesn't happen since temperature changes are very slow and steady, so the surfaces remain at more or less the same temperature as the air.

The problem does arise when we get a sudden warm front after prolonged wet weather. The soggy air warms up much faster than the hard surfaces, so there will be potentially quite a heavy condensation problem until the temperatures have equalised again.

You should see the machinery in the unheated workshop when that happens!! The water literally runs down the sides. 8O

Hope this helps

Dave


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> DavyS said:
> 
> 
> > So motorhomes should not have condensation during prolonged damp weather . . .
> ...


Thanks Dave. As mentioned in my post above I experimented last night by placing a largish 240v domestic fan on slow speed in the cab area. Despice ice forming overnight on the car, this morning, for the first time, the motorhome cab area was completely dry - not even mist on the inside of the windscreen!
But still going back to the dealers!


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

Sent email to dealer (Webbs) this morning detailing the problems. Just had a call from Tom the service manager who was very reasuring.
They have had problems with damp in the cab on overcab models caused by condensation on the inside of the roof and have a fix for it which involves lining it with the insulation used for underfloor heating.
Regarding the damp caused by leaks in the habitation area he said not to worry; they fix that sort of thing all the time. He currently had 3 MHs in the car park wtg to be fixed.
He said "what man can build, we can fix".
A lot more reassured now.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

DavyS said:


> He said "what man can build, we can fix".
> A lot more reassured now.


He should have said, "_What man can fill, we can empty_." - meaning of course, the wallet. :wink: :lol:

Not to put a damper on it for you Davy (_awful pun intended_ :roll: ) but fixing water ingress problems can be very expensive, specially if there has been a long term leak and the woodwork has rotted.

Fingers crossed for you, but don't relax too much until you get the verdict. If it isn't good I'd suggest you ask for a detailed breakdown of what needs doing.

My friend had a leak and did just that. Fixing the leak itself was beyond his skills so he let the dealer do that. Replacing bits of internal woodwork and small areas of panelling was relatively straightforward so he did that himself . . . and saved a bundle of dosh.

It was quite fiddly and time consuming, which is why the dealer would have charged a lot, but not too difficult to do an excellent, undetectable job. Could be worth bearing this in mind.

Dave


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

Zebedee "Not to put a damper on it for you Davy (awful pun intended Rolling Eyes ) but fixing water ingress problems can be very expensive, specially if there has been a long term leak and the woodwork has rotted. "

Thanks for that but I should be OK. I phoned Webbs at the beginning of Dec to arrange a routing habitation check. The earliest they could fit me in was end Jan. I explained that their one-year warrenttee would have expired by then so they agreed that any problems found would be fixed as if the warrentee extended to end of Jan. 
They seem to be very fair dealers. Hope they remember the conversation!!


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Our Swift Firebrand (like a Sundance) had to go back to Swift for a new floor it was damp and spongy around the hab door and this had spread over a lot of the floor. It would have cost us £4000 to get it done ourselves. They did it under warranty but I understand they will do them outside the warranty as its a known design flaw.
We didn't have any more of the other damp problems you describe.
I don't know your dealer but don't let them just bodge it up in the hope that you'll just go away!


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am delighted that Webbs have taken a positive attitude about your damp problem and extended the warranty until the habitation check is carried out.
I know nothing negative about the company but would still be inclined to write out a specific list of things that may need rectification with damp being of the foremost concern and where you have encountered the highest readings.
Usually there is some odour associated with damp, where the timbers are rotting, something you have not mentioned so let us all hope that the leak he refers to can be rectified by them under warranty.

Alan


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

Can I thank everybody who mentioned the known floor problem with some Swift motorhomes and sorry I did not have time to acknowledge the advice. The reason was that my MH was manufactured in 2007/8 when Swift had abandoned the sheet PVC seal under the floor and returned to using butimun covering.
So in theory it should not be suffering the rotten floor problem ....


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi DavyS

I am pleased that Webbs seem to have a positive response to your damp issues. Hopefully it will not be as bad as some of us have suffered on our Swifts.

I would reitterate that it would still be a good idea to use your damp meter on the underside of the floor up to 30-40cms from the perimeter edge as any water ingress from the side skirts has a way of tracking in towards the middle of the van.

Although the plastic sheets were not used on later vans, there have still been reports of the newer vans suffering with damp floors.

If there are high readings, you can take them with you when you take the van in and then check again after repairs are completed.

All the best

Dave


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

Charisma said:


> Hi DavyS
> 
> I would reitterate that it would still be a good idea to use your damp meter on the underside of the floor up to 30-40cms from the perimeter edge as any water ingress from the side skirts has a way of tracking in towards the middle of the van.
> 
> ...


Dave, decided to bit the bullet and get underneath my 2008 Swift with a damp meter to check the floor. Result is that the meter goes into the red along both sides but not rear of the rear wheels. So it seems that the sealant along the side skirts has either failed of was never installed. It is certainly easier to push the probes into the damp areas. So  
Dealer habitation check next week but they may not routinely check underneath. So glad I followed your advice and have some evidence.


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

Unfortunately this is a very common problem with a lot of Swift models from about 2004 onwards it seems. When I had the problem on mine, the wood on the underneath of the floor was so rotten it just fell away when prodded. It doesn't sound like yours is as bad as that so maybe the repairs will be easier.

I am sure that other Swift owners will be interested in the ongoing story though after your dealer has investigated the problem. Please keep us informed.

All the best

Dave


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## Tezza (May 1, 2005)

Hi DavyS

Not wanting to worry you but my 2009 590RL (bought from new) went back to Swift after 18 months of use to have the floor changed due to damp, so don't be fooled by " it doesn't have a plastic covering" or "it's not of that year" it's an issue with the side and rear skirts, make sure you check every corner as well, front and back.

This after my 2007 RL also went back due to floor rot, this one did have the plastic covering.

Tezza


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