# self repair advice needed



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

firstly apologies if this is the wrong place for my question. A few weeks ago my Bessacarr was damaged while parked up in a supermarket car park. Someone had very kindly drove or reversed into the outside edge of the rear number plate and lighting board panel, breaking a couple of pieces off. I was pretty gutted about it and drove to a dealership ( Martins of Exeter) to get an idea of repair costs. The chap I spoke to told me that the last time he had enquired about a similar panel it was in the region of £850. After wiping the tear from my eye, I decided that I would probably do the repair myself as the panel is not too badly damaged and I've done quite a bit of work with GRP in the past. 
I've not had a chance to investigate the panel fixings yet as I still have at least 6 inches of snow and slush outside. I wondered if anyone had done a similar job to be able to let me know how easy or difficult it might be to take the panel off? I can see some screw fixings but I guess there will be more underneath.
I wasn't going to go the insurance route thinking that it is likely they will only claw back next year anything above my excess. It's my first year motoring as well which I guess won't go down well!
Any rear panel advice gratefully received.
Geoff


----------



## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

A tree jumped out & made a nasty gash to my front/side, having very little experience of repairing glassfibre I nevertheless repaired it to my satisfaction . . . ok, not"quite" showroom condition but good enough & 2years on its still ok - so if you think you can repair it give it a go (if it doesn't work out THEN take it to a professional !


----------



## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

In 2007 a replacement rear lighting panel for my Swift Ace was £400
It may well be similar to your motor home. Try Olearys for a cheaper replacement.
I reversed into a concrete bollard in Paris. It still hurts when I think about it!!


----------



## teal (Feb 23, 2009)

I had a Bessacar 645 some years ago and a metal pole jumped up whilst reversing and caught the rear corner. Marquise said that the part would cost around £350 plus labour . Took it to a local car respray garage and he done a first class job for £75.He was reccomended by a quite a local motorhome dealer we all know.


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

If you are talking about the rear 'bumper' panel then I've been there, T-shirt etc.

On my Chausson the bumper was secured by screws behind the number plate and rear light clusters. Also there was a fair amount of non-hardening sealant/adhesive.
I removed the bumper myself and took it to a car plastic bumper repair specialist who made an excellent job of it for ~£300 including a colour matched respray.
Refitting was just a reverse of removal.
Before refitting the bumper I took the opportunity to fit an electromagnetic reversing sensor kit inside the bumper.


----------



## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi Geoff 

Is the panel GRP or ABS plastic, if it broke into a few pieces it sounds more like its a plastic if you have worked with fibreglass you should be able to tell.

If it is fibreglass it will repair easily, I think that is the advantage over plastics, certainly better than a new panel at mega money.

Martin


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks folks. 
VanFlair, the panel is definitely ABS or acrylic, vacuum formed. Should still be able to get some GRP in on the back of it though to strengthen. 
Spacerunner, thanks for the heads up on reversing sensor. a good idea if the panel is coming off anyway. it may be that Bessacarr use similar sealant/adhesives as well. think I may give Swift a call on Monday and talk to someone with the knowledge.

if there is anyone out there who HAS detached this panel on a Bessacarr i'd still be interested to know what I might be facing.
Geoff


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi Geoff

If it's ABS you'll have great difficulty getting any fibreglass resin to adhere properly to the inner surface. Usually the resin peels off once it's hardened through. It is however possible to repair ABS using the correct adhesives and solvents. Although you could tackle it yourself I think you'd be better off getting a bumper repair specialist to do the job. They have the tools and know-how to get a really good result for a much lower cost than renewing the panel.


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

Gaspode, I shall find out on Monday what the material is from Swift. I guess it could also be HDPE. Who knows? Swift I hope. I'm pretty confident about doing a good job if I know the material, particularly if I can use GRP. I worked in the fibre glass/ mould making business for some time so know my way around it, but thanks for the warning about compatability with ABS.


----------



## bungy69 (Jan 27, 2010)

Had a few war wounds on some of the plastic 'bumpers' on our van, this stuff did the job niceley

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-Rep...4V10/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359233678&sr=8-1

video for instructions here






If youve still got the bits that came off its quite straight forward to to do and then tidy up with a scratch and chip repair kit from halfords


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

Just had confirmation from Swift group that the rear panel is indeed ABS. Some interesting methods online of how to repair this plastic. In the main it consists of using an ABS cement ( usually acetone based) with extra shavings of ABS to increase the gloop consistency. A soldering iron can also be useful to weld joints. One method that caught my eye was to use the extra gloopy ABS cement in place of resin onto fibre glass to fix the strand matt in place and provide extra strength.
I also wondered about a surface filler for fine surface work prior to spraying. I've always used Isopon P38 on any car bodywork I have done so I rang them up to check compatability with ABS. Chap I spoke to was doubtful about it staying put and recommended an alternative product they produce called 'bumper fill'. Anyone ever used this? I see Halfords stock it.
This will be a spring project for me, when I have some warm sun on my back. (we will get some wont we??). The sort of messing about, try this and try that sort of project I quite enjoy. Still very much open to further suggestions should this catch the eye of anyone who has repaired ABS. I think I might ring Swift back and suggest they use GRP for the panel in future!


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks for all the info guys.

My Hymer has ABS rear light panels that could do with some TLC.
Why they call them "bumpers" I don't know. 

It is amazing how hazards appear from nowhere when reversing, even with a reversing camera!


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Do you remember the days when bumpers really were "bumpers"?

Solid steel and chrome plated.

Then they found that different car manufacturers mounted their bumpers at different heights from the ground, so...... bumper overriders were invented.

Then, to prevent the overriders from getting scratched, they invented overrider protectors.

Now - we have moulded, and very expensive, plastic 

.......... and sometimes it's not just a one-piece moulded bumper, it's virtually the whole rear end.


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

geoffwp said:


> In the main it consists of using an ABS cement ( usually acetone based) with extra shavings of ABS to increase the gloop consistency.


I have used that method in the past on ABS scooter side panels - and it does indeed work. You need to grind up the shavings and leave them in acetone for a few hours to "make" your glue. Adding more acetone then controls how "gloopy" it is. Never tried using it as a resin for glass matting but no reason why that wouldn't work if you could be bothered to prepare enough "glue". You really need to use offcuts of the original material to make the glue so the coloring is correct, OK if you have some spare bits of panel to shred up.

For finishing and filling I've used the Isopon gelcoat filler (made for the marine sector) with some success but it is a bit runny. for small cracks and to fill joint lines you can use the "gloop" as a filler with a higher content of shavings, it'll blend nicely into the surrounding ABS. Don't forget you'll need some specialist primer if you have to paint the final surface.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

There are a number of ABS repair kits on sale. Here for example: http://www.amazon.com/Plasti-Mend-Plastic-Repair-Holding-Tank/dp/B003JC3UB2

I am interested in this topic because the body of my car (see my Avatar) is ABS and so have been reading about it.

There several fairly detailed tutorials to be found on Citroen Mehari forums, often in French but they are understandable using Google Chrome, Alan.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I once hit a pheasant in a three wek old MGTF the estimate for replacement made my eyes water.
Local Bumper repair man did a brilliant job for £150.


Check you local trades men
Dave p


----------



## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I've repaired a cracked rear ABS bumper (German bus stop post 1ft out from the kerb) using methacrylate resin.

I cleaned and sanded around the crack and used some wire ties to hold it all together whilst setting. I think I used about 5 layers of 200g cloth and laminated them together on a board before peeling off and applying to the prepared area (25cm x 6cm).

It was very cold when I did it, bumper still on the van, but it is rock solid over 2 years later. The methacrylate is not intended as a laminating resin but since you, like myself, are familiar with the techniques it is straightforward to use.

It's not suitable for building up missing gaps but as a solid base it would be fine.

Kev


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for that link Kev. It looks an interesting product. I'm thinking that any missing gaps, once bridged by the matting working from the inside and allowed to set, could be gradually built up from the outside then with extra ABS gloop before profiling in the usual way with wet and dry.


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

gaspode said:


> For finishing and filling I've used the Isopon gelcoat filler (made for the marine sector) with some success but it is a bit runny. for small cracks and to fill joint lines you can use the "gloop" as a filler with a higher content of shavings, it'll blend nicely into the surrounding ABS. Don't forget you'll need some specialist primer if you have to paint the final surface.


The Isopon bumper filler had the same problem mentioned in reviews I have read gaspode. A bit on the runny side for building up thickness. I guess that will have to be a game of patience while applying multiple thin layers and waiting for each one to dry before continuing.


----------



## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

geoffwp said:


> Thanks for that link Kev. It looks an interesting product. I'm thinking that any missing gaps, once bridged by the matting working from the inside and allowed to set, could be gradually built up from the outside then with extra ABS gloop before profiling in the usual way with wet and dry.


You would have to use cloth with it as I doubt it will dissolve the binders in csm.


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

Kev, do you think it would be a problem if the binders were left undissolved? I'm wondering if the methacrylate would harden around the strands anyway and glue/weld the matting onto the ABS surface. I've got plenty of csm but no cloth. Did you just use a plain weave cloth?


----------



## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

H geoffwp

I think you will find that epoxy resin will stick to ABS as long as you key the surface with a rough sandpaper, you could then use a bit of woven glass matt. 

I recently repaired a shower tray for a friend, epoxy and 300g woven glass then a polyester FloCoat to give a smooth and non sticky finish.

If you have not got any woven glass PM me and I will send you some.


Martin


----------



## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

The cloth I have is very drapable (for surfboards) and I would definitely use it in preference to csm whether you use epoxy or methacrylate. Epoxy will be easier to wet out the cloth but I used the methacrylate because of its claimed superior bond strength, if my test piece didn't work I was going to use epoxy. Cloth will take to compound curves better than the 300g woven roving Martin used if that is what your repair needs. I can also post you up a bit if you decide to use it.

I'll snap a photo of the repair in the morning.


----------



## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Self Help*

Hi Geoff 
You need to visit The Plastic Surgeon, Cofton Road, Marsh Barton, Exeter.
They are brilliant at this sort of thing and not too expensive.
I cracked the rear bumper on a new Porsche once and they did an absolutely unnoticeable repair.
Highly recommended.
Regards
Alshymer


----------



## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi

Kev

Will need a few layers of your surf board cloth as it will be very light, it needs to be a complicated bumper if 280/300 GSM glass cloth wont go into it but thinking about it we have lighter cloth at about 120GSM and I might have used that.

Geoff

You can get the Epoxy here if you want to go that way.
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/c-1036-west-system-kits.aspx

Martin


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Alshymer:

_I cracked the rear bumper on a new Porsche _

Are you boasting or complaining? :lol:


----------



## geoffwp (Aug 29, 2012)

alshymer: I know the place mate and my bro has used them before now. he lives down the road at Exmouth. I'm just an awkward cuss though and like to do my own stuff!  

Martin: Thanks. I do have plenty of csm and resin. The question is just how reliable an epoxy repair might be in terms of adhesion. I take your point about getting a good key first but ABs can be a bit awkward. At least the methacrylate is formulated for ABS. 

Kev. I think 300gm woven roving might be just a bit too heavy for the area needed to be repaired. I think I'd rather go a lighter cloth and build strength through muliple layers. I very well may take you up on your offer with the cloth. I would estimate the repair area to be around 2 square ft.


----------

