# Escape motorhome



## metblue

Hi,just a wee note to let all of you know about the above motorhome.We have been on the look out for a new van after the disgraceful episode with the Autotrail Arapaho last year (see post in their site on forum for more info)
Anyway we went to Pickering last month to have a look around to see whats on offer and after viewing several/many we decided that we both liked the Swift Escape 622 on the Wandahome stand,we talked to the salesman Brian,discussed our requirements ect and then went away to talk some more.We went back several times to ensure that it would be the van for us,talked again with Bran and ended up paying a deposit and the new van would be ours in October 2009.One of our requirements was for the salesman to get us an estimate to supply and fit a tow bar and ensured that this along with other things was added to the order form prior to me signing it.I did ask for a brochure but they had none onsite at this time.
Next day we went back and they then had brochures and we were given one,I gave it a brief read as we were leaving to drive home that afternoon.
Once home I read the brochure from cover to cover and was very surprised to see that unlike any other Swift brochures there was no details re towing weights ect. I called the Swift technical department to enquire why this was the case and was informed that,Swift Motorhomes Limited " "THAT AS THE ESCAPE RANGE OF MOTORHOMES ARE FITTED WITH A LIGHTWEIGHT CHASSIS THEY DO NOT RECCOMEND THAT A TOWBAR BE FITTED" I requested that this information be emailed to me and this was very kindly done.
Well the bubble was well and truly burst,I called Wandahome Motorhomes, I was told the salesman was in hospital (he was !) and as I wished to cancel the order I would have to put this writing to a Mr Steven Bateman one of the directors of Wandahome,I did this and sent it off recorded delivery.I waited a week with no responce from them I called him,I told him about the chassis and our cancelling the order,his response was,the deposit is not refundable,! I said as it was not fit for purpose i.e. i could not fit a towbar it was of no use to me.We have called several times now and keep being fobbed off.(Last call today,same reply) I have spoken to our solictor to get this sorted out and to have our deposit refunded to our card.
I think that Swift Motorhomes should have printed this information re the chassis onto their brochures so that perspective buyers have this to hand prior them making a decesion in purchasing this otherwise wonderful motorhome which truly ticked all the boxes for us. 
cheers,


----------



## cabby

As well as your solicitor, who may not be up on the law in this domain, I recomend that you contact the Trading Standards and CAB. 
I will not be surprised if Swift do contact you as they are active on here and try their best to be of assistance where ever possible.I will even go as far to say I wish a lot of other companies could take note of their practise.

cabby


----------



## Telbell

The DEaler has some responsibility here BUT did you discuss the subject of towbars with them? (and just as a matter of interest did you discuss the high reverse gear ratio of the Fiat base which has the potential to cause problems? :wink: )

Think you have a valid point about the omission from the advertising blurb too.


----------



## DABurleigh

If your towbar requirement was on the signed order form I would suggest all they are doing is trying it on - they would lose if you escalate.

Dave


----------



## GEMMY

Telbell,read line 6&7 of original post :lol: 

tony


----------



## dcummin

DABurleigh said:


> If your towbar requirement was on the signed order form I would suggest all they are doing is trying it on - they would lose if you escalate.
> 
> Dave


completely agree - they are trying their luck and if you challenge they will probably back down

David


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

Mmmm

Wandahome?

I think they're a mainly tugging operation based in South Cave (animal skin suits optional :roll: ), which is now't but several spits from Swifts HQ at Cottingham.

Relatively recently they opened a branch at Knottingley, West Yorks which I think is near the A1 (and must be somewhere around where IH make their vans).

They seem to two websites, one on http://www.wandahome.co.uk/ which mentions Knottingley but I can't see anything about motorhomes. The other is http://www.caravanbuys.com/motorhomes/new_motorhomes/ which does mention motorhomes. It also implies they are Adria, Swift and Elddis dealers. I haven't been able to find any information on new stock and their used stock amounts to an underwhelming three vans according to their list.

More worringly there's an entry dated 16th June '08 on http://wandahome-motorhomes.pissedc...eposit-refusing-to-return-20080616124309.html that says:

Whist at a motorshow my wife and I seen a used motorhome dispayed by the big company Wandahome.

'We deposited £1000 on the understanding that we tested the vehicle later as they could not take it off site.

The following day we decided that the vehicle was not suitable and asked that the deposit be returned.This was refused even though we had not drove the vehicle.

The manager insisted that we wrote to head office ,which we did but they refused point blank.

Wandahome say they pride themselves in looking after the customer.

I dont think so do you

Do not buy from this company they do not value you as a customer !!! '

I think I'll steer clear and the suggestion that you get Trading Standards etc involved looks like good advice.

SDA


----------



## Telbell

> Telbell,read line 6&7 of original post Laughing


Saw that- but Poster said it was a "requirement" of his but didn't make it clear it ended up on the Order Form- as subsequent Posters have identified :wink:


----------



## metblue

*escape motorhome*

Hi and thanks to all of your replies,Re last poster!! a "requirement" means just that !! what is required ! it is on the order form,written by their salesman own fine hand prior to me signing it ! Spoke to my solicitor this am and letter to Wandahome (www.motorhomebuys.co.uk based in South Cave) to draw their attention to the sale of good act and asking then to kindly refund the deposit asap.
watch this space !!


----------



## GEMMY

Telbell,QUOTE "BUT did you discuss the subject of towbars with them? " As said line 6&7 8O 

tony


----------



## metblue

*escape motorhome*

Towbar requirement was talked during the discussion prior to order being placed.This afternoon I have received a telephone call from the salesman telling me he is waiting for a response from Swift's and also agreeing with me that they (Swift's) should have informed the dealers that a two bar cannot be fitted and that the omission of this fact on their sales brochure is ridiculous.
Does anyone know if this has happened to any other purchasers ?
Have Swift told the dealers of this ? are they going to amend thier brochures ?


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

*Re: escape motorhome*



metblue said:


> Towbar requirement was talked during the discussion prior to order being placed.This afternoon I have received a telephone call from the salesman telling me he is waiting for a response from Swift's and also agreeing with me that they (Swift's) should have informed the dealers that a two bar cannot be fitted and that the omission of this fact on their sales brochure is ridiculous.
> Does anyone know if this has happened to any other purchasers ?
> Have Swift told the dealers of this ? are they going to amend thier brochures ?


MB,

I agree with you that it's very poor customer service for Wandahome to refuse to refund your deposit and it would appear from what you've described that the salesman has agreed that he misled you.

However both he and you (I'm sorry to say) are being a bit unrealistic in suggesting Swift should mention in the sales brochure that their Escape range shouldn't be used for towing. It is a SALES brochure, not an operating manual or detailed technical spec. It's there to sell and I can think of few sales brochures that ever feature a negative. As a for instance we purchased our previous van knowing it had no shower, but you can search the website and brochures and that isn't mentioned once. Sales brochures are about presenting your product in the best possible light, not mentioning absolutely everything it can't do.

'Your' salesman behaved absolutely incorrectly. In all sales training I've ever been involved in over 40 years in sales and marketing it's always stressed 'if you don't know, apologise and find out. Never, ever, EVER guess.'

Unfortunately some organisations don't subscribe to good sales ethics and they are to be avoided at all costs.

Now we need Wandahomes directors to show that they walk the walk and don't just pay lip service to customer service and that they behave in an impeccably ethical way and refund your deposit with a little sweetener on top as an apology for the poor initial reaction.

That's what gets you extra business and customers returning time after time, ask Peter of Johns Cross.

SDA


----------



## Rapide561

*Towbar*

Hi

My thoughts on this one....

I would have looked at the brochure for towing details and then made a decision based on the details within the brochure. If no details were present in the brochure, then I would research the facts a bit more closely. I would not order without knowing all the facts. Towing is not an issue now, but previously I towed a car with both a 2.8 Fiat and also a 3.0. Careful analysis of the brochure and thorough checks were made, to ensure both the towing weights and gross vehicle weights were not likely to be exceeded. The same was said of my Vectra that I ordered earlier this year. I learned that the 1.9 diesel was available in two variants and so I researched exactly what the difference was and how I could tell on visual inpsection of the car. I am not directly blaming Metblue, but I read many times on the forum about "caveat whatsit"

As a silly example, I believe there was a law case of a customer v McDonalds who burned her mouth on an apple pie. She claimed negligence as the as pie container did not state the pie was hot. Not quite the same as the motorhome/towbar though....

Back to the case in hand though, then I think it is about negotiation with the dealer in an orderly manner and I hope a sensible resolution is reached for all concerned.

Russell


----------



## Rosbotham

To be honest, the thing that surprises me most here is that the Escape range isn't capable of towing. I know certain corners need to be cut to produce a budget range, but for me that's a step too far.

As others have said, if the OP has the towbar on his order form then _prima facie_ they must get their deposit back because the dealer is unable to fulfill the order.


----------



## geraldandannie

Rosbotham said:


> As others have said, if the OP has the towbar on his order form then _prima facie_ they must get their deposit back because the dealer is unable to fulfill the order.


Absolutely.

I don't know why the dealer is having to contact Swift? The sales contract is with the dealer, and if they can't supply, they have a duty to refund the deposit. Whether they have conversations with Swift about compensation is neither here nor there, and should not affect the your deposit refund.

Gerald


----------



## Rapide561

*Towing*

Our of interest, are there any other motorhomes that may not be able to tow?

Russell


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

geraldandannie said:


> Rosbotham said:
> 
> 
> 
> As others have said, if the OP has the towbar on his order form then _prima facie_ they must get their deposit back because the dealer is unable to fulfill the order.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> I don't know why the dealer is having to contact Swift? The sales contract is with the dealer, and if they can't supply, they have a duty to refund the deposit. Whether they have conversations with Swift about compensation is neither here nor there, and should not affect the your deposit refund.
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

Why is it that some motorhome dealers seem to regard customers deposit money as their own immediately it's been paid and trying to get it back is like trying to crack a crocodile's jaws open?

We're in the 21st century now, the customer is king. You earn your living as a motorhome retailer based on how well you treat customers not on how much you can grab and hold on to. That's a Dickensian attitude that went out with the Sale of Goods Acts and Arthur Daley. Dealers surely have to be desperate for sales to treat somebody like this.

Let's hope that they see the sense of treating the customer like they'd want to be treated themselves and if they don't let's hope their converter/ suppliers make sure it can't happen again.

Sometimes I think this industry needs a Regulator with a blue uniform and handcuffs!

SDA


----------



## Rapide561

*Towing*

Hi

There is no mention of towing in the Itineo brochure.

http://www.itineo.com/motorhome_TB_740_carac.php#ancre

Russell


----------



## Rosbotham

*Re: Towing*



Rapide561 said:


> Our of interest, are there any other motorhomes that may not be able to tow?
> 
> Russell


I got the impression that it was something that afflicted certain A-classes with bespoke chasses (if that's the correct plural of chassis) more than anything else, but have no evidence to back that up.

I'm a bit surprised about the Escape. I _thought_ it was on the standard Fiat chassis cab (ie not ALKO, not camper-chassis). That being the case I'm surprised that's any different to the Peugeot chassis cab, which will take a towbar no problem (at least mine hasn't fallen off yet!). Perhaps Swift are worried about it only being the 100BHP engine, but I can attest that the Peugeot 100BHP has plenty welly enough to pull my Smartcar without incident.


----------



## Rosbotham

*Re: Towing*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> There is no mention of towing in the Itineo brochure.
> 
> http://www.itineo.com/motorhome_TB_740_carac.php#ancre
> 
> Russell


Yes, but if you look about half way down this page

http://www.itineo.com/motorhome_integral.php

you'll see one of the options is a "tow hitch/motorcycle carrier"...bit pointless if you can't have a towbar. That's saying nothing about what it's capable of pulling, though...

Hope it can support it - it's one of (many) MHs on my "possible" list when I come to replace mine in a few years!


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

I'm sure I read somewhere recently of one of the towball manufacturing companies refusing to fabricate and fit a ball to a particular van because the chassis extensions weren't strong enough as take up points and there was no clear way to connect back to the main chassis. Maybe it's something like that.

SDA


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Hi Andy,

Whats with the 'Hi Peter' :wave: on your siggy?


Peter


----------



## bognormike

not waving at you, Peter! It's for HumberTraveller

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-70772.html

I've got one as well 8)


----------



## GerryD

I would suggest that you contact some reputable towbar manufacturers, Towtal, Armitage or Watling Engineers. The Escape is built on a stsndard Ducato, which is perfectly capable of having a towbar. The chassis is no different from that used on other budget motorhomes such at Eldiss, Swift Sundance, CI Carioca, Aoto Roller, Corrado, etc.
I wouldn't mind betting that the full vehicle specs quote a maximum train weight, perhaps Peter from JCM could verify.
Gerry


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Thanks, all is now clear, thought I was getting a Fan Club!

Peter


----------



## carolgavin

If you paid deposit via credit card i would contact them and see if you can place it in dispute and get it back. They will then deal with wonderhomes for you. Job done! Hopefully! Good luckio!


----------



## firewood

its a shame the dealer can not see the damage he is doing to his business by hanging on to the £1000 . for most that read this post will think twice before thay buy from him .
i for one would think about this before buying from them .
send them a link to this post


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

geraldandannie said:


> Rosbotham said:
> 
> 
> 
> As others have said, if the OP has the towbar on his order form then _prima facie_ they must get their deposit back because the dealer is unable to fulfill the order.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> I don't know why the dealer is having to contact Swift? The sales contract is with the dealer, and if they can't supply, they have a duty to refund the deposit. Whether they have conversations with Swift about compensation is neither here nor there, and should not affect the your deposit refund.
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

Sorry Gerald but what sort of compensation are you talking about here?

Swift owe nothing to anyone in this case.

Their dealer's salesman has agreed to supply a customer with a van that can tow. Swift's technical people say that in their opinion the van shouldn't be used for towing. Swift haven't said anything about towing in their brochure. So there can't be any compensation due to the dealer and the deposit refund is the dealer's responsibility.

The salesman got it wrong. He should've checked first, but probaly was already spending the commission in his mind's eye - always a fatal error in comission based selling.

SDA


----------



## dcummin

GerryD said:


> I would suggest that you contact some reputable towbar manufacturers, Towtal, Armitage or Watling Engineers. The Escape is built on a stsndard Ducato, which is perfectly capable of having a towbar. The chassis is no different from that used on other budget motorhomes such at Eldiss, Swift Sundance, CI Carioca, Aoto Roller, Corrado, etc.
> I wouldn't mind betting that the full vehicle specs quote a maximum train weight, perhaps Peter from JCM could verify.
> Gerry


Armatige fitted a towbar on my Carioca 656 which I'm sure would be the same chasis as the escape

I tow my horse trailer every other weekend to shows in the summer no problem


----------



## EJB

The manufacturers suggest that a towbar is NOT fitted.
Posters are suggesting that one CAN be fitted.
Fit towbar....invalidate guarantee!


----------



## metblue

*escape*

Hello to all the posters,let me clarify the situation,it went like this.
1)we saw the van
2)we talked to the salesman
3)we paid a deposit
4)there was no brochure available at the time of signing
5)on our day of departure from Pickering we received a brochure
6)once home i read it cover to cover
7)I went onto Swifts web site for info re a towbar nothing !!
8)checked all Swift range and only the Escape and the Mondial do not have any information re towbar (everything else has this information onsite.)
9)Called Swift technical Department for more information and was advised. Quote,"as all the Escape range are fitted with light weight chassis it is NOT RECCOMENED that a towbar be fitted.
10)I requested a email to confirm this which I have received with there reference number on it.
11) I called Wandahome and spoke to sale director Mr S Bateman who basically said tuff.
12)I then talked to the salesman Mr A Clark about it he was never made aware by Swift that the did not reccomend fitting a towbar and agreed with me that it was ridiculous that this information is not included in their sales brochure on on their online web site.
13)He then said he would contact Swift for more info and get back to me.he didn't ! I had to call him repeatedly.
14)I emailed him a copy of the email from Swifts.
15) on Wed of this week he called to say he was waiting on Swifts reply.He obviously did not believe the contents of the Swift email.
16)I have called him but have been told by the receptionist,he is out or with a customer and she would ask him to call back.he never has what a surprise eh !
I will say that the salesman (unlike his boss Mr Bateman) agrees with me and says that this is a new one on him.I have bought several new Swifts in the past and all of them have been fitted with a towbar ,both of us assumed wrongly as it turns out that a towbar could be fitted.But his position as a salesman acting on behalf of Swifts who have press launches for new motorhomes should have been informed of this omission.Swift Motorhomes are not totally in the clear over this if they have failed to give dealers the full and complete information re the escape range to enable the dealers to give the customers the full facts .
Now that everyone has the full facts you can make up your minds as to whose right and whose wrong.
As for us it's now in the hands of my solicitor to deal with.
oh ps I have also passed all the paperwork over to the trading standards office as I do not want any other prospective purchasers to end up the same as us with a van that is not suitable


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

I sympathise with you MB and support you in your efforts to get money back that was taken under false pretences.

However as I've said before the salesman was wrong, wrong, wrong. He should've checked and not taken your money 'til he was certain. It is totally unprofessional to do otherwise.

Judging by the way the company have reacted they are of the 'old school' that talk the talk but can't walk the walk. I thought such antideluvian attitudes were virtually eliminated in UK retail but it seems there are some dinasours still left. What is it they don't understand about excellent customer service bringing extra sales and exploiting customers bringing the liquidator?
Fit for purpose I don't think so.

As I've said before dealers who act like this should be given the boot by the van manufacturers, that might improve things all round and make the less customer focussed sit up and take notice.

As it is there's probably at least several thousand MHF members who will never consider your dealer as a supplier in future.

Think how much better they'd feel about your dealer if they'd said 'sorry, our mistake, here's your cheque and a box of chocolates for the disappointment'. You and others would be very happy to use them again.

Where do they keep their brains?

SDA


----------



## Rosbotham

*Re: escape*



metblue said:


> But his position as a salesman acting on behalf of Swifts who have press launches for new motorhomes should have been informed of this omission.


But there's the rub. The salesman is *not* acting on behalf of Swift in any legal sense...he's an agent/employee of the motorhome dealer with whom you placed the contract (unless it's a very strange arrangement...e.g. in other areas it's not uncommon, e.g. if you buy a holiday through a travel agent the contract is typically with the package holiday company and the travel agent is purely an agent - the clue's in the name. However I don't _think _things ever work like this in the motor industry).

You need to get this straight because you entered into a contract with the dealer for them to supply you with a motorhome with towbar...they can't fulfill the contract so have no legal right to retain any money associated with the contract.



metblue said:


> Swift Motorhomes are not totally in the clear over this if they have failed to give dealers the full and complete information re the escape range to enable the dealers to give the customers the full facts .


Perhaps. If Swift have provided insufficient information to the dealer, then they may feel that they're in a position to pursue damages against Swift. However, that's between them and Swift, and nothing to do with you. The dealer can't pass on their contractual liabilities to a third party (in this case Swift).


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

I still can't see how Swift are culpable in any way.

No vehicle supplier can give every dealer who sells their products every scrap of information about their product. That's why they have dealer support functions which are there to answer just such questions when they come up.

I keep stressing the salesman broke a cardinal rule of selling and 'assumed', he did not check and he did not know for certain. He should have delayed taking the sale until he'd checked, but the commission beckoned. 

A customer should not suffer in any way in such a situation. The dealer should refund immediately with apologies and if he values potential future business he should add a sweetener. If he does that lots of other customers follow, if he prevaricates lots of other customers walk away.

SDA


----------



## geraldandannie

Hi Andy

I only mentioned compensation in case the dealer has already bought in the van on the assumption of selling it on, or has already committed to the order that may not have a customer. Maybe they're keeping the deposit because they are going to be out of pocket (although it's their fault in any case).

I wonder if Swift can comment on this here? It seems to me that Swift are being a little negligent in not making it clear to dealers that this is a restriction of this type of van. I understand that the contract is between metblue and the dealer (Wandahome, boo hiss), and therefore the morally reprehensible retaining of the deposit is nothing to do with Swift really.

Gerald


----------



## Zebedee

metblue said:


> One of our requirements was for the salesman to get us an estimate to supply and fit a tow bar and ensured that this along with other things was *added to the order form prior to me signing it*.


The issue is getting clouded now, as it always does - so let's try to focus back on the critical moment in the whole process, rather than throw accusations around when we have *no access to any verifiable facts*!

If the quote above is a true and *chronologically *accurate account of your dealings Metblue, then you have a strong case against the dealer.

It is unreasonable to expect him to know every little detail about every van he sells, so he can be forgiven for failing to realise that a towbar is not recommended.

If part of the deal was to fit the towbar (or at least quote for the service) your intentions were made quite plain, and there should be no problem in cancelling the deal when it transpires that the van is not quite what both you and the salesman thought it was.

There need not be any blame attached thus far - just one of those things that happen, but (_and I'm not doubting your word . . . just stressing the crucial point at issue!!) _*if* your intention to fit a towbar was recorded in writing on the document *before *you signed it, you have a valid reason for wanting to cancel the deal.

For whatever reason he was unable to provide a package to fulfill the purpose you both agreed to, so it is his responsibility to sort things out, and a cancellation and refund seems the only logical alternative.

Dave


----------



## cater_racer

Swifts have no responsibility here, I bought a "New MHome" off the Swifts stand at the NEC last year. But my contract was with the dealer (Marquis) when the MHome arrived, with tow bar & satellite dish etc. specified on the order form six weeks later I thought I'd bought a swifts MHome. Not So!!! It turned out to have been supplied by Autocruise pre-take over. I had no warranty or recourse to the manufacturer upon who's stand I had bought the product...............................

Marquis won't be seeing any of my custom ever again, but they are dealer, and don't give sh*t about customer loyalty or their reputation.


----------



## time-traveller

Zebedee said:


> metblue said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of our requirements was for the salesman to get us an estimate to supply and fit a tow bar and ensured that this along with other things was *added to the order form prior to me signing it*.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is getting clouded now, as it always does - so let's try to focus back on the critical moment in the whole process, rather than throw accusations around when we have *no access to any verifiable facts*!
> 
> If the quote above is a true and *chronologically *accurate account of your dealings Metblue, then you have a strong case against the dealer.
> 
> It is unreasonable to expect him to know every little detail about every van he sells, so he can be forgiven for failing to realise that a towbar is not recommended.
> 
> If part of the deal was to fit the towbar (or at least quote for the service) your intentions were made quite plain, and there should be no problem in cancelling the deal when it transpires that the van is not quite what both you and the salesman thought it was.
> 
> There need not be any blame attached thus far - just one of those things that happen, but (_and I'm not doubting your word . . . just stressing the crucial point at issue!!) _*if* your intention to fit a towbar was recorded in writing on the document *before *you signed it, you have a valid reason for wanting to cancel the deal.
> 
> For whatever reason he was unable to provide a package to fulfill the purpose you both agreed to, so it is his responsibility to sort things out, and a cancellation and refund seems the only logical alternative.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Absolutely Zeb - a clear and balanced view of the situation, both from the OP's point of view and that of the salesman, who I am sure accepted the order in just as good faith as it was made.

There is simply nothing to add or even comment about ....

As Zeb says ... 'these things happen' ... there was no intent to deceive ... It'll get sorted


----------



## goldi

Good morning Ladies and gentlemen

There are now 4 pages of comments on this topic and if I was running this business I would not want anything on the internet that exposes this kind of business practice the loss of sales will be ongoing for years to come
I agree with everything that steamdrivenany says but as soon as the problem became apparrent I would have telephoned the customer and offered them their money back if I could not supply them with one to suit there needs.


Regards norm


----------



## geraldandannie

time-traveller said:


> As Zeb says ... 'these things happen' ... there was no intent to deceive ... It'll get sorted


I think that's the problem - the dealer _*refuses*_ to sort it (i.e. give the customer his deposit back).

Come on, Swift - this is one of your dealers playing this game. Isn't it about time you had a little word in their ear? I know it's not your responsibility, etc etc, but if I were a manufacturer and one of my outlets was playing games with a potential customer, I'd want it sorted.

Gerald


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Gerald

I did use the word "*if*" several times, and whilst not wishing to cast nasturtiums we have absolutely no verifiable evidence to support _*either *_side of the "debate". :?

Dave


----------



## Autoquest

Jumping in a little late here.... The Itineo does not have chassis extensions just a huge overhang supported by the motorhome floor and wall structure, there is simply nothing to connect a towbar to. I wonder if this is the case with the new Swift model?


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

cater_racer said:


> Swifts have no responsibility here, I bought a "New MHome" off the Swifts stand at the NEC last year. But my contract was with the dealer (Marquis) when the MHome arrived, with tow bar & satellite dish etc. specified on the order form six weeks later I thought I'd bought a swifts MHome. Not So!!! It turned out to have been supplied by Autocruise pre-take over. I had no warranty or recourse to the manufacturer upon who's stand I had bought the product...............................
> Marquis won't be seeing any of my custom ever again, but they are dealer, and don't give sh*t about customer loyalty or their reputation.


Interesting can of worms that, I would assume that you viewed the Swift built Augusta on the stand and ordered that *specific model* and did not get it.

A pre Swift takeover AutoCruise Augusta would not have been what you were shown and ordered.


----------



## Rapide561

Autoquest said:


> Jumping in a little late here.... The Itineo does not have chassis extensions just a huge overhang supported by the motorhome floor and wall structure, there is simply nothing to connect a towbar to. I wonder if this is the case with the new Swift model?


Re the Itineo, I remember reading about the overhang in a magazine, hence my reference to the Itineo website a few days ago.

Russell


----------



## Dunky

*The Great Escape Trauma*

First let me sympathise - we dont want stress we want good advice from Professionals regarding our purchase. If I approach this professional dealer today and offer to buy a motorhome with the ability to tow a trailer and it happend to be an Escape - he would now say(presumably) it was not recommended! Why should our unfortunate friend suffer because the dealer did not have this information at the time of taking his deposit? - God help any Newby to motorhoming entering these premises - Dunky


----------



## gnscloz

been into local dealer hayes this afternoon looking at a pilote on a renault chassis, the chassis has no extensions whatsoever, imo making tow bar fitment very difficult literature makes no mention of towing capabilities, so i asked the salesman there if towing was possible, his answer was definate that any motorhome can have towbar fitted at a cost of £4-500, it seems they will say whatever you want to hear.


----------



## SwiftGroup

Hi 
It is difficult for us to comment specifically on this as I am not aware of the full facts. 

We do offer towbars on certain models and not on others either for payload or design reasons. On our website the options are detailed per model which can be configured to the van when building up the prices. Those models which can have a towbar have the option listed those that can't don't. 

The Escape has no towbar option available to configure. 

Thanks
Andy


----------



## Zebedee

SwiftGroup said:


> Hi
> It is difficult for us to comment specifically on this as I am not aware of the full facts.
> Andy


Nor is anybody else Andy, but it hasn't stopped them knowing the answers!! 8O 8O

Dave


----------



## geraldandannie

Zebedee said:


> I did use the word "*if*" several times, and whilst not wishing to cast nasturtiums we have absolutely no verifiable evidence to support _*either *_side of the "debate". :?


I understand :wink:

But it seems from Andy's reply that it's highlighted by omission on the website - the fact there's no Maximum Trailer Weight specification means you can't fit a towbar. I would have thought it would be better to leave the specification in, but instead of the weight figure, put "N/A" or something. This would help to highlight the situation for prospective purchasers (and dealers :roll: )

It would be nice for Swift to investigate the dealer's actions. As it is, an MHF member is severely out of pocket, with no resolution in sight.

Gerald


----------



## Zebedee

Can't argue with that Gerald. 

It never hurts to make things as clear cut as possible in a brochure (or whatever) and maybe now it has been highlighted Swift will pick up on your suggestion. They are pretty pro-active as a rule, so I would be surprised if it was not taken seriously.

As for the member being out of pocket - that is pretty disgraceful, assuming that everything is as it appears to be.

Sorry for sounding so cynical, but as you know only too well, we do sometimes get spurious claims where the OP turns out not to be quite as genuine as it would appear.

As I said before (and I meant it) _*I have no reason to disbelieve the OP on this thread*_, but it would settle the argument once and for all if he posted a copy of the agreement he signed showing the part where the towbar request has been specifically noted thereon.

Until we have some verifiable evidence, our opinions have little credibility since they can have no factual basis.

_(Not getting at you or anyone else specifically, but it is very tempting to jump in with emotive comments, which can so easily end in tears!!)_

Dave


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

gnscloz said:


> been into local dealer hayes this afternoon looking at a pilote on a renault chassis, the chassis has no extensions whatsoever, imo making tow bar fitment very difficult literature makes no mention of towing capabilities, so i asked the salesman there if towing was possible, his answer was definate that any motorhome can have towbar fitted at a cost of £4-500, it seems they will say whatever you want to hear.


In all fairness the greater majority of vehicles can have tow bars fitted BUT not neccesarily standard bolt on ones.

Before offering when one is not sure, one should get specialist advice from someone like PWS Poole who fabricate tow bars and know their onions.

Peter


----------



## Zebedee

Now you are on Pierre, would the advice against fitting a towbar have more to do with what might be *carried *on it, rather than what might be *towed*?

I can quite understand why manufacturers would advise against carrying (say) a scooter (long rear overhang etc.) so to be safe from subsequent persecution they would simply advise against fitting a towbar at all.

If the weight it has to carry is kept low, as in towing a trailer or toad, I would think there is no real problem.

If this is the purpose the OP wants to use a towbar for, he may still be able to accept the van of his choice.  

Am I correct?

Dave


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Thats the dealers problem to sort out frankly.

We had a problem with a Karman Ontario which did not have an extended chassis and the customer wanted a towbar which we definately could not fit.

So we contacted PWS at Poole and the customer took the van there and they fabricated a one off tow bar and chassis extension to do the job.

As far as the Escape is concerned, it would no doubt be possible to fit but it could need a specialist who knows weight limitations and can advise accordingly.

Peter


----------



## Rosbotham

Just as a postscript to this, I was behind an Escape yesterday on the M6, which was towing a car on an A-frame. Given the manufacturers don't appear to be recommending towing anything with it, suffice to say I floored my car to get out of the way of it lest anything happen...


----------



## karlb

was there a outcome on this?


----------

