# Weighty Matters 2 - HELP!



## timotei (May 4, 2007)

From my last post, "weighty matters"....

It appears Autotrail have not fitted an "upgraded" weight plate........and as such I may be limited to the Fiat plated max weight of 3500.....this is just a few kilos more than the vehicle weighs completely empty.....

any ideas where it might be hidden? If it's not there, am I legally bound to this weight?

Timotei


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weight*

Hi

1) Log book

2) Vin plate in engine bay

3) Within cab area - maybe a plate where the Fiat cab "joins" the habitation area

Russell


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## bikemad99 (Aug 17, 2006)

This was the reason we sold our Autotrail, no payload .

Reg.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Any new plate is supposed to be stuck on as near as possible to the one it supersedes. In the absence of a new plate (and the accompanying letter) you will be expected to conform to the weights given on the old plate. 

SV Tech can replate for you if you download and fill out their form. If you can find out from Autotrail who they used to do the replating for them you may be able to get duplicate paperwork and plate, Alan.


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> ......If it's not there, am I legally bound to this weight?


Unfortunately, yes.

Take the advice of other posters and get in touch with SVTech - they will soon tell you if you can upgrade your weights, sometimes it's only a paper exercise, but it will still cost you £250 ish for the new plate and a certificate, even if nothing needs doing to the vehicle. 8O

If you run overweight and are subject of a weight check, the only information (unless there is a convertors plate present) accepted is that shown on the VIN Plate. 

Just as a matter of interest, mainly for the unbelievers, of 5 vehicles checked in my neck of the woods over the last month, 4 were overweight. When you consider that fixed penalties (between £60 and £200 depending on the percentage overweight) are now the order of the day, it just isn't worth it. 

Keith (Sprokit)


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

My CI had its new plate missing but the log book was correct - took me a while to get the right one


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Timotei, how did it work out for you, Alan.


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Tim.. will probably reply himself soon but I know he got it sorted and replated with SVTech at 4250kg.. with no vehicle mods.. 
There is a thread off him somewhere on the forum.. :?


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

erneboy said:


> Timotei, how did it work out for you, Alan.


Hi Alan

This is his post about the upgrade:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-684390-.html#684390

Gerald


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## mgb (Dec 4, 2008)

Spokit
Can you tell me how many Motorhomes were spot fined for being over weight on route in the UK
Also do you have a figure for how many non UK registered vehicles were fined in the same way 
Happy wheels
MGB


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

mgb said:


> Spokit
> Can you tell me how many Motorhomes were spot fined for being over weight on route in the UK
> Also do you have a figure for how many non UK registered vehicles were fined in the same way
> Happy wheels
> MGB


MGB

I can only tell you about MH's checked in my area, not nationally - however, most of those checked were found to be overweight to some extent. Most of the owners were unaware of the maximum legal weight of their vehicle, some didn't even know where the VIN (manufacturers) plate was located.

As far as fines go, because it was a safety check and we were acting in an advisory capacity during those checks, although the vehicles were prohibited until they got rid of the excess weight, no fixed penalties (fines) were levied. It may not be the same story for future checks.

You asked about foreign vehicles, I presume you mean motorhomes - none have been checked in my area, so I can't do a comparison - we don't see many foreign MH's, but I can assure you that if we do they will be treated in exactly the same way as British MH's.

As an aside, we find these days that most of our overloads are on foreign vehicles (commercial not MH's) - they are fined on the spot and must pay the fine and remove the excess weight before being allowed to proceed.

I hope this answers your question.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

This is a good reason for checking the payload available on a motorhome before purchasing.
I noticed some to be especially poor.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*weights*

Maybe we should have an advisory note on this. I am still a little unsure of the legalities. My handbook says:
'Maximum technicall permissable mass' = 3850Kg which I assume is the maximum weight the vehicle can be when loaded?

It then gives ' Maximum user payload excluding essential habitation equipment' = 477Kg.

Then, 'Essential habitation equipment' = 130Kg,

Then 'Maximum user payload including essential habitation equipment' = 347Kg.
So if I have it weighed empty should the approximate result be 3850Kg - 347Kg = 3503? if so if I then weigh or estimate the addition of contents would give me the assurance that I am within the law? Or should I weigh it as it is and see if I am under or over and take things out?

I think there may be some ignorance about this subject but it is not easy to find out without going to a weighbridge every time you go on a trip.

Graham


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## eribiste (May 1, 2005)

An answer to zappy's musings, I suppose we've all wondered about this from time to time, I know I have. I've never got round to doing a proper check, but I would quite like to put the normal 'trip' load on board and then run over a proper axle weighing bridge. I would want to know the GVW and the axle weights. Don't forget that it's possible to be within your GVW but be overloaded on one axle or other.

Have a look at the vehicle plate. It will show the MTPLM and the maxima for your two (or more if you are a tag axle) axles. We're not allowed to exceed any of these criteria.

To check these, one would need to use one of the weighing rigs that the Ministry use to check axle and gross weights. I don't whether there is any way of doing this, unles one has a chum in the logistics trade. Every truck that leaves the Tesco RDC at Hinckley has to trundle over one of these doo-hickeys to check they're OK.


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

eribiste said:


> To check these, one would need to use one of the weighing rigs that the Ministry use to check axle and gross weights. I don't whether there is any way of doing this, unles one has a chum in the logistics trade....


Sorry but that's not correct, provided certain criteria are met it's a very simple operation

Did I really waste my time writing the guide to weights etc - we still get the same questions on weight - most of the answers are in the guide - you can access it in the "downloads" section.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

*weighty matters*

Zappy 61 If you want any help on weights ,axle loads, etc. PM me I don't mind if it's a safety issue how many times I repeat myself,I spent years working out vehicle specifications,and maintaining them ,if I haven't got the answer I can find some one who has

TONY


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## Nauplia (Sep 30, 2007)

*Weighty Matters*

In response to the recent post by Sprokit, I am a little concerned he may be misleading all motorhomers. I am sure this was accidental.

VOSA do not issue Fixed Penalties to private motorists/driver. Their Enforcement Sanctions Policy, which is available on the Business Link web site on the Internet (just Google Enforcement Sanctions Policy) quite clearly states in its introduction:

FIXED PENALTY 
AND DEPOSIT 
NOTICES 
Fixed Penalty Notices will be issued to any driver of vehicle irrespective of where the vehicle is registered or based, where we know, or have 
reasonable cause to suspect, that the vehicle is used in conjunction with a trade or business. Any privately used vehicle will not be subject to the 
Fixed Penalty sanction.

I am surprised that someone who works for VOSA would suggest otherwise!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Does this mean we will be cautioned and sent our way or be allowed to drai off some water to reduce the weight or will we just end up in court and get a fine and points! Alan.


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## Nauplia (Sep 30, 2007)

According to their published Enforcement Sanctions Policy it is a Prohibition and Verbal Warning but not prosecution / fixed penalty. You would have to remove the excess weight before the prohibition is cleared though.
My understanding of overloading is that it does not carry penalty points on your licence - unless it was so seriously overloaded that the police prosecute you for dangerous condition!


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*weights*



sprokit said:


> eribiste said:
> 
> 
> > To check these, one would need to use one of the weighing rigs that the Ministry use to check axle and gross weights. I don't whether there is any way of doing this, unles one has a chum in the logistics trade....
> ...


Hi Keith,

No you did not waste your time writing the guide, the problem is how does anyone know its there unless they browse the downloads? which I have done and downloaded it. A very informative document it is too, and has a place in my manual and technical literature bag in the M/H many thanks. Of course I go back to the point I made earlier, how do any of us know the weights unless we visit a weighbridge and get it weighed? Most motorhomers I venture to suggest would find this a chore especially each time we go on an extended trip. I will get mine weighed with all fixtures (some added after delivery) and without the stuff we take with us so I can at least estimate the weight. I rarely travel with water in the tank, well just enough to make a cup of tea etc. en-route.

Regards,

Graham


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*Re: weighty matters*



tony50 said:


> Zappy 61 If you want any help on weights ,axle loads, etc. PM me I don't mind if it's a safety issue how many times I repeat myself,I spent years working out vehicle specifications,and maintaining them ,if I haven't got the answer I can find some one who has
> 
> TONY


Thanks Tony, but sprokits guide answers my questions.

Regards,

Graham


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Weighty Matters*



Nauplia said:


> In response to the recent post by Sprokit, I am a little concerned he may be misleading all motorhomers. I am sure this was accidental.
> 
> VOSA do not issue Fixed Penalties to private motorists/driver. Their Enforcement Sanctions Policy, which is available on the Business Link web site on the Internet (just Google Enforcement Sanctions Policy) quite clearly states in its introduction:
> 
> ...


Nauplia
I am aware that we do not issue fixed penalties to privately owned vehicles, however, this may not always be the case - you'll see I wrote
_......although the vehicles were prohibited until they got rid of the excess weight, no fixed penalties (fines) were levied. It may not be the same story for future checks_

This is not the case over the water, if you're stopped by the authorities in Europe and are overweight, you will be fined.

It's also worth mentioning that I have seen several motorhomes used in connection with businesses, usually towing trailers, but this takes us into a whole new ball game concerning tachographs and driver's hours, so we won't go there.

Any overloaded vehicle will be prohibited until the excess weight has been removed, there are no points put on licences for overloading offences, unless of course, the overload is so great it becomes driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Hello Kieth, how is it decided whether a vehicle is sufficiently over weight as to be dangerous, Alan.


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

erneboy said:


> Hello Kieth, how is it decided whether a vehicle is sufficiently over weight as to be dangerous, Alan.


That's the $64,000 question, generally if the overload is in excess of 50% then it should be considered to be dangerous in that it affects not only the stopping distances, but also puts stress on parts of the vehicle not designed to take that weight and can cause failures which, quite rightly, can be considered dangerous.

As an example, if the vehicle is so heavily loaded that the road springs have become inverted, then there's a good chance the vehicle is in a dangerous condition due to the overload, similarly, if it has twin rear wheels (that is two wheels on each side of the rear axle - not a tag axle) and the tyres on those wheels are touching each other, the same applies. In both cases, the driver should be reported for "dangerous condition" as well as the overloading.

As an addition to a previous posting, it appears, from talking to one or two traffic officers, that although VOSA may not issue a fixed penalty to a "privately registered vehicle" in connection with overloading, the Police can and do, depending on which area you are stopped in.

If you google "overloading and stopping distances" it brings up several cases (I must add, all commercial vehicles) which illustrate the penalties imposed by the courts for these offences.

Keith (Sprokit)


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