# Sometimes I have to wonder



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56913993


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Nothing wrong with folk trying to regain their heritage, preserving language is a great way to start. 

In Ireland thousands of our local townland, town and village names were changed with the Englishification brought in by our new English masters.

Terry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I feel it's change for the sake of change, I also think that it could be seen as separatist when we should really be looking at community in the wider sense, I don't think that the Scots, Irish or Welsh are exactly lacking in identity, they are rightly proud of their heritage and known worldwide.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not sure which set of statistics are totally accurate but it's claimed that around 20 to 28% of Welsh residents speak Welsh.

This figure is dropping year by year which suggests it's the older populace who speak the language and subsequently are decreasing as old age takes its toll.

It always used to irritate me when all road signs are in two languages in Wales, and Brittany in France has a similar situation, meaning signs are twice the size that should be to accommodate the two sets of words despite 99% of Welsh residents speaking English.

Bl**dy Welsh – and I had a Welsh father !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Just call it both. Imagine all the maps, literature, guides, signs etc that would have to be changed if Snowdon or Snowdonia was dropped completely. Even worse, imagine asking for directions! I can have a stab at French but Welsh? No chance.


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

The opposite here in the Basque Country the use of Basque is increasing as it is taught in all schools its the older generation who dont speak it due to it being banned by Franco strange the main street language is still Spanish in the towns but in the villages its Basque i have learnt enough to get a drink and read the menu


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Just call it both. Imagine all the maps, literature, guides, signs etc that would have to be changed if Snowdon or Snowdonia was dropped completely. Even worse, imagine asking for directions! I can have a stab at French but Welsh? No chance.


Who paid for all the signs to be changed before?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just think of all the things that will have to change when "E11" get changed to William V.

Uniforms, stamps, post boxes, etc.

Ray.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

The only time I've been to Wales we went to Llandudno back in the late 1950s, Yana was on at the Theatre, and because of my tenuous parental link to that country I learnt to say Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch - and can still recite it even now.

A totally useless thing to remember - but that's been my life so far .......


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I feel it's change for the sake of change, I also think that it could be seen as separatist when we should really be looking at community in the wider sense, I don't think that the Scots, Irish or Welsh are exactly lacking in identity, they are rightly proud of their heritage and known worldwide.


Of course they're proud of their heritage but trying to undo changes imposed by a ruling class can only strengthen it further, perhaps that's what some fear.

Looking for 'community in a wider sense' is commendable, unfortunately as recent events prove it's not delivered by HMG, even for the much discussed English North/South divide. Given that, it's little wonder other regions push to strengthen their heritage and yes perhaps move to a separatist mindset, such as is currently playing out regarding Scotland and NI.

Personally I see it as the almost inevitable beginning of the final death throws of the British/English Empire, all the other colonies have gone for similar reasons.

Terry


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Whenever I travel in a country with a different language to mine, I always expect to see signs in the countries own language. I also consider it to be a huge benefit if that country goes out of its way to then provide the English variant and I am grateful to them for doing so.

I wouldn't expect any country to have Anglicised names for places within its own lands....and that goes for Wales too! 

It should be known by its Welsh name first. People can translate that into English or use it's English name if they want too, no problem.

Am I right in thinking that the ROI has dual language road signs? I can't recall if they have them in Scotland though.

It's part of our heritage and should remain so. It's part of what makes the British Isles unique I think.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

GMJ said:


> Whenever I travel in a country with a different language to mine, I always expect to see signs in the countries own language. I also consider it to be a huge benefit if that country goes out of its way to then provide the English variant and I am grateful to them for doing so.
> 
> I wouldn't expect any country to have Anglicised names for places within its own lands....and that goes for Wales too!
> 
> ...


Yes you are right about the ROI, what might surprise you is that NI has them too, unfortunately they were politicised by Sinn Fein and therefore seen as solely republican, I worked in and around Belfast and the Ardoyne area was one of the first to erect them. I became quite good at understanding them but through need as they obliterated the English street names in protest.

Excellent efforts are being made to expand it proactively and make it inclusive by Linda Irvine in Protestant East Belfast, see link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turas

Terry


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Just to say that Welsh is NOT a language of yesterday and old people. More speak it fluently today than at any point in the 20th C. There is a vibrant and flourishing youth culture, many Welsh medium schools and thriving TV and radio stations. According to Duolingo and the BBC Welsh is the fastest growing language in the whole of the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55348604

And when it comes to bilingual place-names, England is the odd one out. Many of the older towns and cities in England have older Welsh names. In fact many of the Welsh names for the settlements predate the Anglo Saxon wave of immigration AND the English language! When England was actually Welsh.

Look at this map to learn what your town/city should be called.:smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Glandwr said:


> Just to say that Welsh is NOT a language of yesterday and old people. More speak it fluently today than at any point in the 20th C. There is a vibrant and flourishing youth culture, many Welsh medium schools and thriving TV and radio stations. According to Duolingo and the BBC Welsh is the fastest growing language in the whole of the UK.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55348604
> 
> ...


Hmm, got to ask, why would older towns and cities in England have older Welsh names? and are there any left that you know of?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Hmm, got to ask, why would older towns and cities in England have older Welsh names? and are there any left that you know of?


:smile2

Because those settlements would have been Roman and Welsh Kev. The original population of the whole of England before the wave of immigration from northern Europe that brought the Angles and Saxons that would eventually evolve into the English and develop the English language as we know it centuries after the Welsh language came into being.:smile2


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Sometimes in my younger days I must admit to taking pleasure in correcting some of my English friends when they mentioned their “English” national heroes such as Boudicca/Boadicea and Caractacus. Both were actually Welsh and didn’t speak a word of English. They were/are known in Wales as Buddug and Caradog, spoke welsh and in the case of Caradog Latin as well. They would have known those old cities and settlements by their Welsh names.

Maybe its time that the English started to adopt bi-lingual placenames. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You need to get up around Durham, man pet.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> You need to get up around Durham, man pet.


Sister's lived in Shotley Bridge since the 70s Kev. Spent a lot of time up there :wink2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I love the north eastern accent but confess sometimes I have to ask them to repeat what they say.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Glandwr said:


> Sister's lived in Shotley Bridge since the 70s Kev. Spent a lot of time up there :wink2:


Whey eye hinny. My grandfather and some cousins lived in Shotley Bridge Dick. Did she know Ruben Page the bookie? My cousins husband.

Ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> You need to get up around Durham, man pet.


Hadaway an ****e man!


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I love the north eastern accent but confess sometimes I have to ask them to repeat what they say.


Its not an accent Kev they're bloody Scandinavians :wink2::laugh:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Hmm, got to ask, why would older towns and cities in England have older Welsh names? and are there any left that you know of?


A friend was just telling me yesterday that the Welsh language was spoken from Devon all the way up to Edinburgh - before the Saxons.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

jiwawa said:


> A friend was just telling me yesterday that the Welsh language was spoken from Devon all the way up to Edinburgh - before the Saxons.


That's true Jean. I can remember being taught and have since independently confirmed that the shepherds of the Lowlands and particularly Cumbria counted their sheep in what were recognisably Welsh numerals.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

jiwawa said:


> A friend was just telling me yesterday that the Welsh language was spoken from Devon all the way up to Edinburgh - before the Saxons.


Some folks on here can probably remember that Jean....

:grin2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Glandwr said:


> Its not an accent Kev they're bloody Scandinavians :wink2::laugh:


I lived up in Northumberland for a few years around the turn of the century and with my Welsh accent I picked up a Geordie one too. Welsh-Geordie was quite a mix









Wheye eye butt!


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

GMJ said:


> Hadaway an ****e man!





KeithChesterfield said:


> The only time I've been to Wales we went to Llandudno back in the late 1950s, Yana was on at the Theatre, and because of my tenuous parental link to that country I learnt to say Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch - and can still recite it even now.
> 
> A totally useless thing to remember - but that's been my life so far .......


Not sure Kevin but think you might have missed a letter out there 😉


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

We learned how to pronounce that place name as kids.

It was like a right of passage for a young Welsh lad back then


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

fdhadi said:


> Not sure Kevin but think you might have missed a letter out there 😉


Probably a fault with predictive text ?

Who's Kevin ?

:nerd:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes!! don't be taking my name in vain.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

It's OK Kev. I get called Gordon on here by one poster


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

GMJ said:


> It's OK Kev. I get called Gordon on here by one poster


I think that may be me, is it? Sorry, I'm terrible with names!


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> I think that may be me, is it? Sorry, I'm terrible with names!


It's easily done Madge.

Terry


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

jiwawa said:


> I think that may be me, is it? Sorry, I'm terrible with names!


I'm not sure tbh Jean...I can't remember who it is and have not taken offence.

It's Graham btw :grin2:


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