# 776 miles and the vehicle battery fails



## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

On my brand new Swift Kon-tiki!

I went to collect my van this morning to head off to Hamble and the dam thing would not start! I last used the van 18 Dec an the weather has not been exactly freezing. :twisted: I tried to jump start it, no good so we bump started it, that worked although the battery light on the dash stayed on. Turned the van off after running it for a while and the same the engine would not even turn over!

End result I had to call the AA as it would appear that Fiat assistance is about as much use as toilet paper in this situation! :roll: The very nice man tested the battery and found it was totally "Clucked"! He went of and bought me back a brand new one for £218!  

Now my van has had little use since taking delivery early October I will admit, probably 12 nights, however I have been running the van regularly and it has spent quite more nights than this on electric hook up. 

So a brand new 61 plate van and the battery fails before it has covered 1000 miles, and three months after delivery, not a happy chap! :twisted: 

I am hoping that my dealer, Webbs will refund me for the battery as this is clearly no acceptable so I will be contacting then in the New Year when they return to work.

The good news is that I have arrived at Hamble 3 hours late but at least the beers are cold. :wink: 

Keith


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: 776 miles and the vehicle battry fails*



KeiththeBigUn said:


> £218!


 

A solid gold one I hope. :roll:


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Unacceptable on a vehicle of that age,it should be quite straightforward claiming on the warranty.

I wonder if you have a fault on the system that is dragging the battery down or the alarm is taking too much current-just trying to think of a logical reason why the battery should fail so soon.

I think it unlikely that there was a manufacturing fault on the battery,possible of course but I have not heard of many vehicle batteries failing so soon.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

I wonder how long the van had been standing at the dealers with the battery in a discharged condition? 

I say this as we once bought a van, drove a few miles to have some extras fitted, and next morning we had two duff batteries. The dealer no doubt expected us to have driven the 200 miles home, which would have kept the batteries going for a short time, and the chance that we would not fancy another 400 mile round trip and swallow the situation.


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

110 Amp Bosch battery with a 5 year warrenty was £78 from my local factors before we left! I'd be surprised if Webbs would be prepared to pay triple the going rate?


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## firewood (Mar 17, 2009)

always good to have cold beer


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Addie said:


> 110 Amp Bosch battery with a 5 year warrenty was £78 from my local factors before we left! I'd be surprised if Webbs would be prepared to pay triple the going rate?


Absolutely Addie.

When our MH had a replacement engine fitted by Ford & Slater at P/boro, they charged the insurers an extortionate amount for a new Bosch starter battery. It turned out that F & S had purchased the battery from the same motor factor across the road, that I had purchased one only 11 months earlier, for £67.00. 8O The insurance assessor was not a happy chappie, when I supplied the receipt. :lol: Too late then. :roll:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Just wondering how many other owner of new M/H’s have had similar problems, myself I’ve had three new M/H’s in the past five years with the same problem duff batteries.
It’s about time dealers got there act together and make sure that all item on M/H’s are working correctly before handing them to clients instead of just giving the batteries a little tickle before we pick it up.
No it’s easier to let us fine the faults and have running back and forth using the fuel that we have worked hard to pay for so they can turn around and say ant we great we’ve solved your problems. Unfortunately it’s not good enough.
I will say however that our new M/H a Rapido 9048df has had no such problems the only drawback was we had to wait there months for delivery.

Regards
Ray


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

This doesn't surprise me as we have been looking at new vans at various dealers and most of the ones we have looked at had flat batteries, when I suggested that this could damage the batteries if left in this state one sales person said we couldn't possibly keep them all topped up as we have so many......frightening isn't it? 
Gary


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Disconnect?*

Hi All,
I have fitted a battery disconnect switch to my Ducato - it states in the Ducato user manual that you need to disconnect the battery if you are not to use the van for any length of time 
Fiat even fit a "quick off" lever action connector on the neg lead to the battery to make this an easy task 
Regards Ray


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

IF you dont need the alarm function then its always a good idea to disconnect your starter battery if leaving the vehiclea long time.

I have a Mazda 6 and whenever we go away for more than a couple of weeks I alweays disconect the battery. Every time in the past I have not done so I have had a flat (and I mean FLAT :roll: ) battery on my return. The battery has always remained fully charged when disconnected so I am able to start the thing WITHOUT jump leads. Local agents reckon its (mostly) the alarm than drains the batteries over an extended period.

As far as the OP is concerned I hiope he has retained the original battery??? If not its unlikely anyo9ne will pay out under a warranty. Who's to say you have not used the warrantyn to obtain a battery for another vehicle??? (bet they try that on you!!) As for the price charged thats just criminal !!!! I bought a 110 AH starte battery a few months ago and it only cost about £75 INC next day delivery, so over £200 is just taking the p***


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The same happened to me. New van first time out. Would not start on a Sunday morning after two nights parked. New battery required. I didn't bother claiming I reckoned it would be too much aggro, Alan.


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

The vast majority of batteries which become faulty due to a manufacturing fault will become faulty within the 1st 3 months of use. there is no way of knowing it is faulty until they fail and it will fail overnight. You may have been unlucky.


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## NormanB (Sep 8, 2005)

*Snap!*

I had the same problem with ours and it took two new batteries for me to realise that it was the Cobra locking alarm, the radio and other current leakers that were running the batteries down, especially in colder weather.

I then fitted a battery disconnector which I use when it's in storage. Not had a problem in the four years since.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

I take it your insurers either know that you're disconnecting your alarm, or didn't take account of your alarm when calculating your premium?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> The very nice man tested the battery and found it was totally "Clucked"! He went of and bought me back a brand new one for £218!


Does this sound familiar?

It would be interesting to ask the AA to produce the invoice for what THEY paid for the battery.


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Just a quick update on my battery trouble. 

I put in my warranty claim 5 Jan and have been informed today that Fiat have refused my claim as they did not authorise the replacement battery prior to installation! 8O :evil: 

Now of course I have not accepted this and even though it is only a couple of hundred pounds I am determined to get my money back so I have informed them I will see them in the small claims court! 

First fiat and how I feel about the customer service this WILL be my last!  

Some may say it is not worth getting excited about, for me it is now a matter of principle! :wink: 

Keith


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## mikebeaches (Oct 18, 2008)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> Just a quick update on my battery trouble.
> 
> I put in my warranty claim 5 Jan and have been informed today that Fiat have refused my claim as they did not authorise the replacement battery prior to installation! 8O :evil:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update Keith. Keep us posted on how you get on. Hope you can get it sorted without too much grief.

Certainly not good PR for Fiat.

Mike


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## stephenpug (Sep 18, 2008)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> Just a quick update on my battery trouble.
> 
> I put in my warranty claim 5 Jan and have been informed today that Fiat have refused my claim as they did not authorise the replacement battery prior to installation! 8O :evil:
> 
> ...


Principles can prove very expensive so be careful and know when to stop but good luck to you


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Good luck with your claim.

Just a thought - this isn't to do with the standard X2/50 battery drain? It's a known fact that a Fiat van has a standard discharge, and you need to have some means of keeping it topped up. My solar panel keeps both engine and leisure batteries topped up when not in use.

Gerald


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> Just a quick update on my battery trouble.
> 
> I put in my warranty claim 5 Jan and have been informed today that Fiat have refused my claim as they did not authorise the replacement battery prior to installation! 8O :evil:
> 
> ...


Sorry but I'm not at all surprised - indeed I still remain very surprised at the amount the AA managed to get you to pay for a battery that is only about £130 in Halfrauds or less than £100 anywhere else.


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## ciderdaze (Mar 28, 2006)

Stanner, Not a very helpful reply, when you call the aa your just glad they can fix it, not worried about how much a battery costs, especialy if you just paid serious money for a motor home, in my opinion,


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

ciderdaze said:


> ............... when you call the aa your just glad they can fix it, not worried about how much a battery costs, especialy if you just paid serious money for a motor home, in my opinion,


Maybe, maybe not, but as I said in a earlier post I would most certainly have taken the cost up with them later and wanted a good justification for the grossly excessive price charged.


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> Good luck with your claim.
> 
> Just a thought - this isn't to do with the standard X2/50 battery drain? It's a known fact that a Fiat van has a standard discharge, and you need to have some means of keeping it topped up. My solar panel keeps both engine and leisure batteries topped up when not in use.
> 
> Gerald


Gerald, I had a 160 W Solar panel fitted by my dealer (Webbs of Warminster) before I collected the van and it is charging both the engine and leisure batteries. The original battery was obviously faulty before I took delivery of the van! :wink:

Keith


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Stanner said:


> KeiththeBigUn said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick update on my battery trouble.
> ...


The amount surprised me as well! 8O What was I to do though, stuck on the side of the road all packed and looking forward to New Year away in the van? If I am honest the money is secondary, it is all about Fiat doing right by me. :wink:

Keith


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## mikebeaches (Oct 18, 2008)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> The amount surprised me as well! 8O What was I to do though, stuck on the side of the road all packed and looking forward to New Year away in the van? If I am honest the money is secondary, it is all about Fiat doing right by me. :wink:
> 
> Keith


"If I am honest the money is secondary, it is all about Fiat doing right by me."

------------------------------------------------------

Just a further thought - isn't it Webbs' problem to resolve the issue and recompense you, since they supplied the vehicle?

Obviously, they in turn would expect Fiat to do the right thing. But I do wonder if your claim should actually be against Webbs?


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Keith,

I am not sure that Fiat are culpable here, they may be for the replacement of the battery, if you could prove that the battery was the problem !!

The AA have been known to over charge for batteries in the past, it was on watchdog many years ago, I believe the mechanic gets a commission on the sale.

It would be easy to have a loose earth lead the mechanic tests and tells you you need a new battery, you agree (What else can you do) charge extortionate fee, take old battery away, recharges and sells.

Nice if you can get away with it.

Steve


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## oilslick (Oct 3, 2007)

*New Vehicles Are Old!*

Part of the problem here is that most of the motorhame manufacturers buy a number of vehicles for conversion and they sit there for possibly 2 years before conversion.

When buying a motorhome always make sure you know the year of manufacture of the base vehicle before paying your deposit. Just because it has a new registration means nothing.

If you look at the windows they are date coded with a dot under a letter of "Toughened". count the letters along and that is the last digit of the year.

Consequently the batteries are generally about to die (if they havent already) when you buy your van.

You might also find it worth checking for date codes on leisure batteries too!


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > KeiththeBigUn said:
> ...


I agree not much you could do at the side of the road, BUT I would have made the AA man quite certain that I would be checking on the cost of a similar battery as soon as I could and would be taking the matter up with the AA if there was so much as a hint they (or him) were "profiteering" from your misfortune.

I also agree with Steve that your beef is not in fact with Fiat at all - you actually have no contract whatsoever with the manufacturer of the base vehicle - your contract (and rights under the Sale of Good Act) is with the supplying dealer and their line of responsibilty is to the maker of the motorhome and then theirs is to Fiat.

So Fiat are a long way down the line from (and very little to do with), your problem, attempting to pursue them under the circumstances is likely to be a total waste of time and money.

Edit
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Consumer_Rights/Supply_of_Goods_and_Services_Act


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## andyroamer (May 7, 2012)

I think there is a need to consider all the facts here in some detail.

I recently bought a new MH and had an issue with the starter battery, but I am not surprised!

The MH started life in the Sevel factory in Italy, where the cab was manufactured, the battery may have been fitted at this time. The battery was most likely 3 weeks old when fitted.
Next it was probably shipped to France to have the Peugeot engine fitted.
Then to the UK to have the ALKO chassis fitted.
On to the MH factory to have the bodywork and interior fitted.
Delivered to the dealer it sat there for at least 3 weeks.
When I collected it there was 60 miles on the clock, the battery was probably 6 months older, and had hardly had a chance to be charged up!

When I got the MH back home I checked both the starter and leisure battery and both were about 12.2 volts. Each of them took 24 hrs on a smart-charger to bring them up to a full charge.

Battery manufacturers recommend that even a totally disconnected and not in use battery is charged at least monthly. When installed in a MH with modern electronics, and possibly an alarm or tracker fitted, then weekly or 2 weekly charging might be more appropriate. Some of us resort to a solar panel to do the job. If you read the manuals supplied with the MH they will probably say that you must do this, if the MH is not to be used for a while.

In many MH’s the charger (so called) only charges the leisure battery, and even then it may only charge to 80-90% of full capacity. The only way to ensure a 100% charge will be by using a multi-stage or so-called “smart charger”

I have had MH’s for up to 7 years at a time and I have never had to replace either a starter or leisure battery. Similarly, two of my recent cars I have had for 10 and 8 years and both had/have the manufacturers original starter battery.

So, batteries require loving and considered attention before they will reward you with reliability and long life. There are duff ones, but not as many as we think, only poor maintenance. Don’t be surprised if the manufacturer or dealer is not interested.

And £200 is a ripoff.

Hope this helps.


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

I thought I would update you all on this dispute!  

Full refund (£217.50) received in this mornings post! 8)   

What a nice start to the weekend. :wink: Patience is a virtue you know......... :lol: 

Keith


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

If a battery is allowed to run totally flat and then left standing they will often result it total failure. A battery needs to be charged regularly and never allowed to go totally flat if it is to survive a reasonable amount of time. This is not a fault with the battery, manufacturer or suplier, but is a limitation of the 'technology'. 

Look after a battery properly and it should last for many years. I would recommend getting yourself a CTEK battery trickle/conditioning charger (search eBay or a local motor factor)which will keep the battery up to full charge during lay up - and don't forget to give the leisure battery the same treatment.


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Spiritofherald said:


> If a battery is allowed to run totally flat and then left standing they will often result it total failure. A battery needs to be charged regularly and never allowed to go totally flat if it is to survive a reasonable amount of time. This is not a fault with the battery, manufacturer or suplier, but is a limitation of the 'technology'.
> 
> Look after a battery properly and it should last for many years. I would recommend getting yourself a CTEK battery trickle/conditioning charger (search eBay or a local motor factor)which will keep the battery up to full charge during lay up - and don't forget to give the leisure battery the same treatment.


Spiritofherald, thanks for your advice. The van was only two months old and had been started and driven locally regularly, 130W solar panel fitted before delivery with a battery master. If anyone needs advice at how to keep batteries in fine fettle on this occasion is Swift during the build process, in my opinion of course. :wink:

Keith


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> Spiritofherald, thanks for your advice. The van was only two months old and had been started and driven locally regularly, 130W solar panel fitted before delivery with a battery master. If anyone needs advice at how to keep batteries in fine fettle on this occasion is Swift during the build process, in my opinion of course. :wink:
> 
> Keith


Good point, with that kind of setup then there is no way the battery should have failed so drastically and so soon.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

KeiththeBigUn said:


> I thought I would update you all on this dispute!
> 
> Full refund (£217.50) received in this mornings post! 8)
> 
> ...


Who from?

FIAT?
Dealer?
AA?


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Stanner said:


> KeiththeBigUn said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I would update you all on this dispute!
> ...


Fiat.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

WOW!

Well that certainly shows that FIAT customer service can beat all the others if it tries, I doubt if any other manufacturer would stump up like that certainly for something like a battery that is totally outside of their control once fitted.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Stanner said:


> WOW!
> 
> Well that certainly shows that FIAT customer service can beat all the others if it tries, I doubt if any other manufacturer would stump up like that certainly for something like a battery that is totally outside of their control once fitted.


Maybe it was down to Keith's persuasive skills, or the manner in which he applied them. :lol:

A good result Keith. :thumbright:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

All he needs to do now is get the phenomenal overcharge back from the AA and he's quids in.

PS I happened to be in a Helfrauds yesterday and checked their price for a Bosch battery and it was £114.00 :wink:


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Stanner said:


> All he needs to do now is get the phenomenal overcharge back from the AA and he's quids in.
> 
> PS I happened to be in a Helfrauds yesterday and checked their price for a Bosch battery and it was £114.00 :wink:


The payment was a "full" refund of exactly what the AA charged me on the side of the road. :wink:

FIAT had said that they were not going to refund so I requested that in writing via FIAT Customer Care so that I could proceed through the small claims court. They continually refused to put it in writing so I invoiced them for my time at @£20 an hour (or part there of) and for my telephone calls. All of a sudden I was informed the cheque had been issued! Funny old thing......... :wink: :lol:

I did give them plenty of opportunity to pay up, this had been going on for over six months. :roll:

Keith


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm still not sure the AA should get away with such blatant overcharging - I don't know ANYWHERE that charges over £200 for an £80 most places (and still less than £120 in Halfords) battery. :roll: 

I think you've been very lucky and FIAT simply took the pragmatic view that refunding you an extortionate bill from the AA was cheaper than fighting it. :wink:


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