# Greece; Wild Camping - Fines; VAT on Meals...



## LandCruiser

An interesting footnote on an article at the weekend in http://www.ekathimerini.com/ about Greek Tourism:

"Foreign tourists are finding their way back to Greece's islands and ancient ruins, offering a rare boost to an economy contracting for the sixth year running.

According to a survey carried out by the country's consumer institute, 73 percent of Greeks will not go on holiday this summer, up from 69 percent last year.

The only affordable option for many Greeks was the popular practice of camping in the wild but the government has just doubled the fine for free campers."

Also, reported today - "Greece cuts VAT on meals to encourage tourism; The VAT sales tax on restaurant meals, take-aways and catered food has been cut from 23 percent to 13 percent. 
[Our correspondent in Athens explained] VAT will only stay down if customers benefit: "If the prices are not reduced, the government has said it will revise its policy and put VAT back up to 23 percent at the end of this year."

Brian.


----------



## peejay

Thanks Brian,

Direct link to article....

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_28/07/2013_511606

Pete


----------



## Almwing

*My Greece Stopovers.*

Hi Peejay, I am just printing off your details of Greece Stopovers - amazing effort and helpful information. You kindly gave me the benefit of your experience about Sardinia last year and we had the most fabulous trip there and were worried about topping it this year. We are considering Greece but were worried about the austerity problems they have been having there. Some of your photos look amazing, how long were you there and what time of the year was it? We were thinking of getting a ferry from Venice - any recommendations?

Kind regards,

Angela


----------



## peejay

Hi Angela,

We have been across with the motorhome quite a few times over the years and its always in the spring. Last time we went was in 2012 via Northern Greece en route to Turkey.
No real problems, prices were up and a few places closed down but certainly nothing that would stop us going again.
This year due to other commitments we couldn't go in spring but are planning a trip in the Autumn fingers crossed.

The ferries are quite expensive nowadays, particularly the Venice route but it is a great route. Travelling via Ancona should be a cheaper option but not quite as memorable as Venice for obvious reasons.

The 3 main players on the Long Italy - Greece routes have all got ebrochures out now, so you can get a rough idea of prices.

Anek do the Venice and Ancona routes, they share the Ancona route with Superfast....

http://web.anek.gr/anek_prod/pdf/Brochures/2014/flipbook/EN/index.html

http://www.superfast.com/adriatiki/images/eBrochure2014/en/index.html

Minoan do the Ancona route and also depart from Trieste a few days each week...

http://www.minoan.gr/en/brochures2014

Both Anek and Superfast have a 'camping on board' option where you stay on deck in your motorhome for the price of deck passage whereas Minoan offer a 'camper special' option where your motorhome is parked on deck and you get an inside cabin and 30% off all meals and drinks for the price of deck passage.

Beware the fuel surcharges, it's especially hefty on the Venice route with Anek.

Pete


----------



## barryd

If Greece are in so much trouble how come all the prices have rocketed? (this might be a stupid question).

I keep thinking of going but rising ferry costs and fuel put me off.

We used to rent Villas in Corfu years ago when I was more flush and I priced some up last night for May and they are double what they were before the recession.

Would it not make sense to cut prices for tourism to encourage more visitors?


----------



## peejay

Beats me too Barry

Fuel prices in Italy are higher than Greece so that could possibly be one reason for the ridiculous fuel surcharges on the ferries so maybe not all Greeces fault.

Pete


----------



## Patrick_Phillips

barryd said:


> If Greece are in so much trouble how come all the prices have rocketed?


We saw a comment along those lines as we were coming down here in Feb but now we have been here a few weeks we are finding that most of the stuff we buy (food mostly) is quite cheap compared to France or Spain. Petrol is expensive in many filling stations. 
The locals are saying that last year they had more visitors than in previous years but they were mostly Greeks and they didn't spend as much!
Preparations for Easter now in fever mode due to the rainy weather...

Patrick


----------



## barryd

Having said what I said earlier there weren't too many Villas left for rent. £3-4K for two weeks in May not including car hire or flights. Package holidays a lot cheaper.

Used to be less than half that.

Clearly some people still have a few quid then. 

Mrs D would like a Villa holiday for a change but for the cost of a decent one for a fortnight we could probably do 4 months in the van.


----------



## helenoftroy

We've booked camping on board from Ancona with Anek in July and it's only marginally dearer than last year. I can only encourage you to go- it's the most amazing place and the people we have met there have been some of the kindest we've ever met. Camping on board is easy and if you are lucky enough to get near the 'window' it's better than a cruise! 
A friend of ours who had villas for rent near Koroni (www.saintfridays.com) says he's not got many bookings for this year because he's in the middle....high end resorts like the Navarino Bay resort are busy and at the bottom end- us lot in vans- there's a marked rise in numbers but the villa market is poor. All inclusive packages to islands are also up but they don't do a lot for the local economy......Our son and fiancee came out to see us in Finikounda last year with Thomas Cook- they can't wait to go back.

I don't work for the Greek Tourist board but I hope many more motorhomers will visit this lovely place , as others on here will tell you, there's nowhere quite like it.


----------



## brimo

We found Greece a brilliant country to visit. We did the Pelopponnese last year see our blog below

Our Greece Blog

We also bought our tickets from a girl who worked for a ticket company at a very good price, her name was Lara Del Ser, see

Greek Ticket price company

Hope this helps


----------



## aldra

Can dogs travel on the ferries??

Really interested on the camping on board

Aldra


----------



## LandCruiser

Aldra,

Our little Yorkie has ventured to Greece doing Camping-on-Board with both Minoan and Anek - and he's off again this year with Superfast, just to complete the list (aged 10) ! He's also done the extension run with Minoan to Crete - so, "yes" you can take your dog with you on the Italy/Greece ferries and it's an experience not to be missed !!!!

Regrettably, "he" enjoys it so much we have no choice but to tag-axle along just to take him for walkies on the top deck, now there's an experience for any well-travelled little fella  

For those non-Camping on Board ferries (Mr. Minoan !!), you could make use of provided kennels (we don't and won't !) or even pet-cabins (at a price), so don't let your little friends put you off going on the trip of a lifetime !

Sounds like we enjoy it, then ? Bet you couldn't guess the dog is just the excuse for making the journey…..

Brian.


----------



## Garcia

Aldra,
We did Ancona/Patras and booked camping on board with our two large dogs a couple of years back. The crossing is long, but dogs are allowed out on the top deck on leads, there are mops and buckets for the "obvious" .
The only prob. Was that when we got to Ancona , they told us there was no camping on board on that crossing. They gave us a cabin and said the dogs had to go into the kennel room on the top deck. These kennels we're large enough to get our 2 in one kennel, which we duly did. Sitting in the open air bar on the top deck, talking to a fellow passenger, we queried why ours we're the only dogs in the kennels and we're told that everyone took their dogs to their cabins and the crew turned a blind eye.
The other thing for us is that as we live in a rural spot, the dogs run free most of the time. They really don't "go" when they're on the lead in town streets. Walking them during the day crossing , on the top deck of a ferry, they simply refused. I did get worried about the effect, but they seemed fine, and they loved Greece. But do remember Greece is the king of CAT countries. Wild ones everywhere!!!
Garcia


----------



## peejay

Hi Aldra,

Just to clarify whats on offer for the 2014 season for those with doggies as things sometimes change...


Anek - Camping on deck available 1/4 - 31/10, dogs allowed in vans no extra charge. Outside these dates a 'camper special' is available, motorhome on deck plugged in and an inside cabin for price of deck passage. Pets in cabin @ extra €50 per stretch or €20 per kennel per stretch.

Superfast - Camping on deck available 1/4 - 31/10, dogs allowed in vans no extra charge. Outside these dates you would have to make a normal booking with a per friendly cabin. Pets charged extra @ €50 per stretch for a cabin or €20 per stretch for a kennel.

Minoan - No Camping on deck available on Minoan ships, instead they offer an all year round 'all inclusive' camping deal. Motorhome on deck plugged in and an inside cabin for the price of deck passage, 30% discount on meals and drinks on board. Pets in cabin €25 per stretch extra.

Pete


----------



## nickoff

brimo said:


> We found Greece a brilliant country to visit. We did the Pelopponnese last year see our blog below
> 
> Our Greece Blog
> 
> We also bought our tickets from a girl who worked for a ticket company at a very good price, her name was Lara Del Ser, see
> 
> Greek Ticket price company
> 
> Hope this helps


I've just been skimming through your blog and found it very interesting and helpful. I'll be looking at it more in depth later on in the week. It seems that you took the same journey, more or less, that we are thinking of. We are thinking of using the ferry from Italy to Greece and driving all the way on the return trip. Any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks, Nick.


----------



## Don Madge

Nick,
If you are feeling ambitious on your return trip try out Albania & Montenegro. The info is a bit dated but will give you some ideas. I'm sure Bill would love it.

*May 2010* 
Our amble around Albania lasted eight days and we covered 320 miles. Albania is a grim country - a huge construction site in many places - but the people are fantastic. 
We ambled up the west coast and saw some of the few unspoilt beaches left in Europe (soon to be spoilt?)
The roads have to be seen to be believed. I think Mercedes are using Albania as a testing ground for their cars, as there are literally hundreds, most being driven by kamikaze drivers. If you lost a Merc in the last couple of years it most likely finished up in Albania.
ENTERING ALBANIA FROM GREECE 
We entered Albania at the Quafe Bote border post (N39.65305 E20.15945) which is situated between the villages of Sagiada, Greece and Konispol, Albania, just north of Igoumenitsa.
It took us nearly as long to clear the Greek customs as it did to enter Albania. For some reason the Greek customs wanted all the paperwork for the van.
The old Albanian border post is being replaced by a purpose built structure, not yet in operation. The old post can only be described as chaotic. Fortunately it's only a small crossing with no heavy traffic and we were through the border in about 30 minutes.
We paid €27.00 for third party insurance for 14 days. We were expecting to pay €10 each for entry tax but the charge was not made.
You will need the V5C (Vehicle Registration Document) to enter Albania. They will ask for the "Vehicle Papers".
Approximate exchange rates at 1 May 2010.
1 Euro €135 Leke
1 US $103 Leke
1 UK £157 Leke
Most traders preferred the Euro or Leke.
ATM's available in most towns. The bank of Tirana only accepted local cards.
SHOPPING
Shopping is difficult, though you can buy bread, fruit and veg easily. It's difficult because of the language to identify what you want. You will see super/mini-markets varying in size from a tiny country cottage through to an average small town supermarket. The largest you find are the easiest to use. Sometimes you may recognise something you have known in other foreign supermarkets. Meat is probably most difficult and the butchers' shops you might see are not up to European standards!!!
WEATHER
It was warm and sunny all the time.
ROADS
Road signing is very poor in the north and almost non-existent in the south. The signing for the ancient sites is better but still leaves a lot to be desired.
Speed limits:
Motorways 90 KPH
Dual carriageways 80 KPH
Single carriageways 70 KPH
Urban areas 40 KPH
We came across speed limits of 20 and 30 KPH in some places.
On the main roads there were many hand-held/mobile speed cameras with speed limits as low as 40 KPH in some places. So be warned.
Drive with dipped headlights at all times.
ROAD CONDITIONS (As at the first week in May 2010)
Border to Butrint New road for some distance and then unmade /rough tarmac.
Butrint to Sarande Under construction, very rough.
Sarande to Vlore Good road surface, smooth tarmac.
Vlore town Unmade road in places, very slow going.
Vlore to Fier Road tarmaced with many bumps and potholes.
Fier to Berat Road tarmaced but in extremely poor condition and very bumpy.
Berat to Liushnje Road tarmaced but in extremely poor condition and very bumpy.
Liushnje to Durres Dual and single carriageway with smooth tarmac in good condition.
Durres to Shkoder On the whole road is good. Roadworks in places with diversions. 
Shkoder to Muriqan border post. Tarmac road with good surface.
In some towns and villages there are speed humps, which are not marked and can be very dangerous if you hit them at speed. Besides damaging the van you might get done for low flying as well. 
FUEL
Euro diesel 135 Leke per litre (approx €1).
Auto Gas (LPG) Widely available about 70/80 Leke per litre. We filled up using the clawgun adapter.
MAPS
You will need a good map at least 1:400 000. We used the Freytag & Berndt that covered Albania, Montenegro and parts of surrounding countries. We met and compared notes with a few motorhomers (no Brits) and our map was the only one that showed the small crossing points we used. We try and use the smaller crossings as usually there is less hassle there. 
ANCIENT SITES VISITED
BUTRINT: N39.61428 E20.22750. Entrance fee €6. If you are interested in ancient sites it's worth a visit. 
BARAT: N40.70442 E19.95081. Park alongside river, then cross over and visit old Ottoman houses. Well worth a visit.
NIGHT STOPS
BUTRINT SITE CAR PARK: See above.
HIMARA: N40.09848 E19.75190. Parked on sea front in designated parking area.
NOVOSELE: N40.61586 E19.47531. Derelict filling station on busy main road. Not an ideal night stop but needs must. 
CAMPING PAEMER: 10 miles south of Durres in the village of Karpei. Site set along coast but under construction. The owner was very helpful but site is not suitable for motorhomes at all. There's one other van on the site tonight - we are parked on a driveway and the other van is on the site road. Also last 5 km was of unmade road, which is not really suitable for motorhomes.
CAMPING ALBANIA: N41.92372 E19.54194 www.camping-albania.eu E-mail: <a href="mailto:%3Cscript%20language='JavaScript'%20type='text/javascript'%3E%3C!--var%20prefix%20=%20'ma'%20+%20'il'%20+%20'to';var%20path%20=%20'hr'%20+%20'ef'%20+%20'=';var%20addy69733%20=%20'info'%20+%20'@'%20+%20'camping-albania'+%20'.'%20+%20'eu';document.write(%20'%3Ca%20'%20+%20path%20+%20'\''%20+%20prefix%20+%20':'%20+%20addy69733%20+%20'\'%3E'%20+%20addy69733%20+%20'%3C/a%3E'%20);//--%3E%3C/script%3E%3Cnoscript%3EThis%20email%20address%20is%20being%20protected%20from%20spam%20bots,%20you%20need%20Javascript%20enabled%20to%20view%20it%3C/noscript%3E" target="_blank" mce_real_href="mailto:noscriptThis email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it/noscript">[email protected]This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it. The campsite is about 20 km south of Shkoder and is well signed off the main road at Bushat. There is a good tarmac road leading to the site, as long as you follow the signs. The site is run by a Dutch family and is in a very peaceful location. We paid €15.50 per night which included electricity and WiFi and all the usual facilities and there is also a very good restaurant on site. The site also has a silent room (chapel). There is a small supermarket a few minutes' walk from the site and a larger one in Bushat.
EXITING ALBANIA
We exited Albania at Suobin which is a joint Albanian/Montenegrin border post. This is a small post and we were through the Albanian and Montenegrin formalities in about thirty minutes. 
You don't get an exit stamp for Albania, just an entry stamp for Montenegro.
You might need to produce the V5C (Vehicle Registration Document).
We paid €16.00 (that was €2.00 per day) for the camper. The €10.00 exit and entry fee has now finished. 
CONFESSION TIME
When we entered Montenegro we realised we had been one hour ahead of everybody else since entering Albania. After checking we realised that Albania was on CET (Central European Time) and not EET (Eastern European Time), as we thought. It did not seem to matter at all except the last night at Camping Albania, when our "seven o'clock" meal seemed to arrive very late!
MONTENEGRO
   *May 2010* We meandered up the coast road from the Albanian border for four days (10-13 May 2010). We found that English was not widely spoken anywhere in Montenegro - it was all Italian/German.
ENTERING MONTENEGRO
We entered the country at the joint Albanian/Montenegrin border post at Sukobin, which is across the border from Muriqan in Albania. This is a small post and we were through the Albanian and Montenegrin formalities in about thirty minutes.
We paid €10.00 for ecology tax and received a sticker for the windscreen.
We paid €15.00 for third party insurance for 15 days. This was the minimum period. If you wanted longer it was €1.00 per day extra.
We had to produce the V5C (Vehicle Registration Document) to enter Montenegro.
Montenegro's currency is the Euro.
Montenegro is on CET (Central European Time)
We paid a visit to Bar old town (Stari Bar). This is signed off the coast road (the old town is not in the modern town).
We opted to drive around the fjord to visit Kotor instead of taking the ferry. Stunning views around the fjord. Kotor old town well worth a visit. Parking can be a problem but we parked in the town centre at N42.42820 E18.69460, paying €4.00 for four hours' parking. The parking is within a five minute walk of the old town.
ROADS
Reasonably signed on the whole with good tarmac surface.
Some road tunnels are unlit and can be very dangerous. I wear varifocal reactolights and at the first unlit tunnel entered I almost evacuated my bowels! 
Drive with dipped headlights at all times. 
FUEL
Auto Gas (LPG) readily available €0.62 per litre
Euro Diesel €1.10 per litre 
SHOPPING
Ulcinj N41.92609 E19.23124. Mega/Solaris supermarket. Back to European style and standard after Albania.
Bar N42.10319 E19.09901. Maxi Supermarket.
There are quite a few Maxi supermarkets advertised on the coast road; there are others as well.
NIGHT STOPS
*Utjeha* N42.00976 E19.15151. Small campsite with good facilities set in olive grove across from the beach. Very friendly/helpful owners. 
*Plaza Ploce* N42.28367 E18.80298. North of Budva, free camp on flat area that is an abandoned camp site, no facilities. 
*Perast* N42.48875 E18.69460. Free camp on rough car parking area at north end of village.
WEATHER
We had very good weather all the time we were in Montenegro, hot and sunny.
EXITING MONTENEGRO INTO CROATIA
We were through the Montenegro border in about ten minutes.
We had to produce the V5C (Vehicle Registration Document) to exit Montenegro.
We had a sigh of relief when we entered Croatia, as we had been driving in Albania and Montenegro on third party insurance for the last eleven days.
On entering Croatia we had to produce the V5C (Vehicle Registration Document) and passports. The van was inspected by the Croatian customs.


----------



## nickoff

Wow Don, that's certainly very interesting and as usual most concise. It certainly gets the "juices" flowing.:smile2: My only real concern is the state of some of the roads as I will in all probability be towing a Hydra Lift trailer with either my motorbike on it or perhaps a small motor scooter. The part about speed bumps that get you flying through the air gave me a bit of a shudder. More food for thought. Thanks very much and please, if you think of anything else that might be helpful shout out.
Nick.


----------



## nickoff

By the way we will most probably be taking our little dog, Rosie, along with us. Anyone know if that will be a problem? We took her with us down to the Pyrenees last year without any hiccups.
Nick.


----------



## MEES

Anyone have a rough idea off the ferry crossing prices say fo may ? Or June vandalism is 6.3 metres


----------



## nickoff

MEES said:


> Anyone have a rough idea off the ferry crossing prices say fo may ? Or June vandalism is 6.3 metres


I had a quick look this afternoon and for our van, 6 metres, with a 1 metre trailer I had quotes from around £210.00 --£260.00 one way trip. Just Google Ferries, Italy- Greece and take your choice.

Nick.


----------

