# Too hot at night



## owl459 (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi folks,
just back from our first european foray in the van. The trip was great but some nights it was difficult to sleep due to the heat. Have looked at various posts re air-con but wonder what most people do. Do fans help much? and if so what kind. Thanks


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

We usually manage with roof light open and a couple of windows on vent.We carry a fan just in case.
We have a portable air conditioner but find it noisy.
Regards 
Dave p


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## tokkalosh (May 25, 2006)

I too manage with roof vents open wide.
I do have a fan but find the vibration a bit disturbing.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I keep on mulling one of these:
http://www.outdoorbits.com/Brochures/Endless_Breeze_Brochure_Inside.pdf

Dave


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

I found the same problem.

Off the shelf solution is a Luton vent with built in fan.

http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/fantastic.htm

I'm wondering if a cheaper/easier solution is a fan I can make clip into the existing vent blind rails. Blow out the hot air that rises into the sleeping area. I've loads of PC 12V cooling fans around that may do with a regulator.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

I use a 9" household oscillating fan, run off the inverter.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I have other posts running at the moment concerning Remis VARItop roof vents.
I seem to be getting nowhere in my pursuit of getting hold of them, let alone technical info about them.

I have chanced upon something in the CAK catalogue that I had not noticed previously.
Page 57 of the 2007 catalogue, page 65 of the 2008 catalogue.

It is the AER01 Roof mounted ventilation fan. 
I gather it is a Sirocco 3003 model, but I can find no reference to it on the web.

Has anyone out there actually got one of these?
Any one got more info about them than is given in the CAK catalogue?


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

in our old van it used to get stifling overnight when we were abroad, i relented and bought a Fiamma Turbovent Fan which is the same principal as the aforementioned Fantastic fan albeit cheaper as it doesn't do some of the snazzy stuff like auto close if it detects rain etc (And hence is about 1/2 the price)

It worked a treat as i replaced the roof light above our bed with it. Extremely easy to fit, remove old roof light (10 mins job), fit and seal new fan and run a 12v live supply to it.

You have the option of using them as cooling or circulation and venting (there is a direction control on the fan), the fan is also fitted with a user controlled thermostat to control it cutting in and out when it does get above a certain temperature.

It appealed to me due to the low power consumption (0.3a when on minimum up to 3A if on full power)

You can't beat proper AC for cooling power, but they do have their downsides (Cost, Power consumption etc) So its all down to your usage pattern, i.e. are you a campsites to campsites person who is on hookup predominantly then AC is the way, if you are a wild camper / Aires type person then I would recommend one of the fans mentioned.

People have had mixed results with the cooling evaporator type affairs you can get as well, i.e. a fan with a piece of material in front of it that draws up water from a small tank below. We bought a very cheap variant of one of these from a hypermarket in France, and although fairly effective, its a pain to keep remembering to top up the water reservoir


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

My low cost compromise, a 12 v. cig lighter extension mounted to the wall, also useful for other things, and a little 12 v plug in fan.


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

I wonder if there's any particular reason why those in the USA pay the same in dollars for their Endless Breeze fans, as we do in sterling. They can easily be had in the US for $80, whilst we pay around £80 - so we're charged nearly twice as much. Even if these are an American import, it does look like we're being ripped off.

Great reviews though. Anyone prepared to flog me one for 80 US dollars?

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Shaun,

You make a good, if not new, point. It's depressing, isn't it? What's more depressing is I had a quick look and saw it at $59.99 through Amazon.com/ RVPart, but they don't ship outside the US.

Later on today I'll see if I can find someone to ship from US. With duty, VAT and shipping it still undercuts UK prices by some margin at current exchange rates.

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

nukeadmin - thanks for that info.

Can you remember how much light the Fiamma turbovent let in?

My problem is I need total darkness to sleep.

The REMItop vario seems to allow total blackout while using the fan.
As presumably does the Sirocco.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Too hot*

Hi

Careful selection of a pitch might help. Some pitches are more shady than others, some may have more breeze etc.

R


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

We've gone through several fans which, tried out in the shop or at home , seemed quiet but drove us mad in the van.

We finally found one that fits the bill very well. It is totally silent and, as a bonus, is squat and stumpy so can sit permanently, attached with straps, to the shelf in the van. It's 240 v however.

This is what it looks like -can't guarantee this is the exact one and I'd never buy without trying anyway. It is 18 inches in diameter and cost about £30. It'd from Argos and is made by Challenge.

It moves air very well and, on really hot days or nights, a wet cloth over the front helps.

G


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Indeed, Dave. Count me in if you find a willing supplier.

Would there be duty, given the cost from the US? I would have thought this item is cheap enough in dollars to fall beneath the duty radar. I've just seen it on eBay at $60, but one has to specifically contact the seller for shipping costs to Europe. That might be worth a punt.

Shaun


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

Another solution to consider.....

http://cpc.farnell.com/CP03192/car-leisure-hobbies/product.us0?sku=unbranded-5332

CPC were a trade only type electrical supplier but since being owned by Farnell they now seem to be placing themselves more in the retail sector. They now sponsor The Gadget Show to get more retail coverage. Some things are good value, some things surprisingly expensive.

Lots of goodies for motorhome folk.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Shaun,

I'm waiting for a shipping quote from 1ststepup-com for:
Ebay

Otherwise the best US route is looking like:
West Marine

Using their low price guarantee:
Price Match

To match:
http://www.amazon.com/Fan-tastic-Ve...e=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1212928605&sr=8-2
http://rvpart.com/Endless-Breeze-Fan-12-Volt/M/B0000AY2Z6.htm
http://www.mobilemart.com/product.aspx?sku=56390
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-vents/01100wh.htm

And ordering UK toll free:
International orders
United Kingdom 0800-895-473

I have emailed them on [email protected]

Regarding import duty and VAT:
Duty & VAT
and one only avoids duty under £7.

Dave
Edit - at the moment I am assuming that the UK distributor is:
Nova Leisure
3 Mere Farm Business Comp
Redhouse Lane, Hannington
Northamptonshire NN6 9SZ England
Tel: 44 (0) 1604 780022
Fax: 44 (0) 1604 780033
Contacts: James Cox, Karl Krisiulevicius or Kristian Wantling
E-mail: [email protected]

And also conclude they are the middle men making a mint. It is puzzling why Roadpro don't offer them as it's the sort of product that's right up their street. I'll ask Andy.


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

you can improvise by putting a couple of icecubes into an already wet (wrung out) face cloth, if you wipe yourselve all over with it and have a normal fan on, the breeze creates a cooling effect, keep by side of bed for use in night.....good in emergancy....


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Good on ya, Dave.

As for duty, I'm mixing up items personally brought in to the UK, with items actually imported via a third party. Which brings me to a little story: 

Some years ago, with the dollar to sterling at around 1.6 - which at the time was excellent (oh, for a crystal ball), I imported a guitar from the US. I'd calculated to the penny how much the duty and VAT would be (and the rates of duty can differ noticeably for very similar items.) Anyway, it was still very worthwhile to import, even with the add-ons.

A week after ordering from the US, the chap from the shipping company duly dropped off the guitar at my house, but quickly disappeared. So, there I am with this expensive piece of kit, but no bill from UK Customs. I asked around as to what I should do. The consensus was that I'd get a bill within 6 weeks for the duty and VAT. That was five and a half years ago. 

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Shaun,

It remains hit-and-miss. But I would not fold in to the purchasing decision that Murphy MAY be on your side.

Dave


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Even more determined to solve this problem.

This afternoon the shade air temperature was 19C.

The Mh interior air temperature?

37C!!!!!

That is with the interior cab blinds and roof light blinds all shut.
It is a white van as well.


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

In my panel van, with the side door open and windows, there's quite a throughput of air. I would imagine with them closed, it would be like a tin can and get very hot.

Shaun


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

pippin said:


> That is with the interior cab blinds and roof light blinds all shut.
> It is a white van as well.
> [/size][/font]


You can make a very neat looking window shade very quickly with a silvered concertina windscreen sunshield made for a car.

Open all the windows fully and, place one of these ( silvered side up) on top of the windows facing the sun. You might have to hold it on with a couple of clothes pegs or make some ties held on with glue or a few stitches or use velcro and tape. It's clear what you have to do to hold it firmly and it can be attached to the window stays.

It means the window is able to be open and allow in fresh air but is shaded and does not get direct sun. Very effective. Ours cost 99p each and have seen out 3 summers.

G


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Good one, Grizzly. Certainly a lot cheaper than custom-made exterior blinds.

We have a couple of those spare so will put them together to make a windscreen screen.

Trouble is, for security purposes one has to keep the windows shut when away from the vehicle.


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

pippin said:


> Trouble is, for security purposes one has to keep the windows shut when away from the vehicle.


More hope than anything. Have you looked how frail the plastic catches are ?

Better than nothing but I think, not a lot more.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Windows open and no visible signs of a forced entry = No insurance payout.

Windows shut but damaged by forced entry = Insurance payout.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

pippin said:


> [
> Trouble is, for security purposes one has to keep the windows shut when away from the vehicle.[/font][/size]


We always lock up when we leave and usually that includes the top vents. Putting these on the windows before you go out however can considerably reduce the effect of the sun on the van. They are more effective than the internal blinds.

They are useful at night as, with the fly screen down they give you privacy but allow cool air through. I wouldn't do this on an aire but many campsites feel safe.

Ours were from Woolworths and came in a plastic sleeve for our 99p !

G


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> Shaun,
> 
> I'm waiting for a shipping quote from 1ststepup-com for:
> Ebay
> ...


I had also emailed them for a shipping quote. They've said $48.50 for one and $66.50 for two. If that's the cheapest we can find do you fancy one of us ordering two and splitting it? I could collect from or deliver to Basingstoke.

Viv


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Viv,

Yes, I had the same from Dan. This is my best estimate of how it pans out:

ONE	TWO 
60.00	120.00 price $
48.50	66.50 shipping
108.50	186.50 sub-total
110.89	190.60	2.2	% duty added 
130.29	223.96	17.5	%VAT added
65.80	113.11	1.98	$ per £
65.80	56.56 £ each

Getting the right import duty rate is a nightmare. I also think, predictably, the VAT is applied to the import duty is applied to the shipping is applied to the goods. If you know better.....

I haven't heard back from West Marine yet. And we'll wait for Shaun in case that makes three, though not worth asking for yet another quote, just do it. But I'll certainly go in with you to save shipping if you still wish. PM on its way.

Dave


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

pippin said:


> Windows open and no visible signs of a forced entry = No insurance payout.
> 
> Windows shut but damaged by forced entry = Insurance payout.


Good point.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> Viv,
> 
> Getting the right import duty rate is a nightmare. I also think, predictably, the VAT is applied to the import duty is applied to the shipping is applied to the goods. If you know better.....
> 
> Dave


yes, VAT should be charged on duty & shipping as well as the goods. :roll:


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Dave, if it's to my door, I'm in up to a total of £60. After that, it starts to look iffy because of the warranty situation. I suspect if one breaks, we're on our own. 

Any UK suppliers out there prepared to make a few sales in one hit for £60 apiece?

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The Post Office can get their customs administrative slice too, I recall. I've lost count of how many times I've ordered small things from abroad and end up paying 3 times their value.

I sometimes get the feeling that "open trade" means the world and its wife gets a slice of the action :-(

Dave


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Dave, I have a step-sister who lives in Florida and she sends me stuff and me her. No matter what's in the package, we just mark it 'present' and there have never been any duty implications, nor add-ons from the delivery service at either end. 

It seems that so long as the package gets passed the sniffer dogs at customs, and the odd random opening, there's no interest. But, the second the goods appear to be of a commercial nature, as you say, everyone wants a piece of the action.

And, yes, the rates of duty are often bizarre, with similar items falling into different categories, sometimes with large differences in rate percentages. If these fans attract such small rates, it's no the wonder a company over here has targeted them on the basis of them being relatively cheap to import. So, even with a satisfying markup, they don't appear outrageously priced in the UK - at least to those who are unaware of their true base cost of about thirty quid.

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Reply from West Marine:
"Hello and thank you for your inquiry. Yes, we can accommodate a price
match from the other websites but not from Amazon. The shipping method is FedEx International Economy (4-6 business days
delivery).
Item Qty Alt Description Price Chg Amount
3698347 2 Fan-Portble-Box 14in 12V 59.99 G 119.98
119.98 Merchandise
74.20 Ship/Handling
194.18 Total"

which is more expensive shipping.

Decision time. What do Viv & Shaun want to do? IMHO it can only be on the understanding that the total cost, whatever it is, high or low, is split equally.

Nuke simply says the recommended retail price is £83.76 and ODB is £84.53 inc shipping and with MHF discount.

Dave


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks for your efforts so far, Dave. I'll go with the flow and am happy to divide the total cost equally, so long as delivery is to my home address.

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I now have three Endless Breeze fans in my possession. One for me, one for Viv (will send a PM in a mo with contact info assuming Mon/Tue collection still on), but Shaun no longer wants the third.

The costs came out as £56 each. So it goes to the first to commit (not question) via PM, to collect from me @ £56, or have it posted to them Royal Mail standard parcels for £63. Via ODB it is £84.53.

Dave

Edit - I'd better let people know this is no longer available, to save more trying. I have got Andy of Roadpro looking into them. Much might depend on the commercial arrangement between Fantastic Vent and the present UK importers, who seem to be adding quite a mark-up.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Dave
As i do not see a sold sign dangling,
I would like to purchase the last endless breeze fan
You have pm


Dave P


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## tresrikay (Nov 21, 2006)

The hottest night I have ever spent in a van was in 2004 in the Loire region it was touching 30 even in the evening so we soaked our T shirts wrung them out and let them evaporate whilst wearing. You wouldn't believe the relief, we even soaked them before we went to bed and slept perfectly and woke up dry as by now then temps had dropped considerably and the cost ......... nothing. Try it


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## chrisgog (May 17, 2005)

I bought our Endless breeze/fantastic fan from outdoor bits on this website last year. Really good fan and powerful. runs on 12v.

chris


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

That's me decided, I'm going to buy one tomorrow for our French holiday....

I'm in Houston at the moment and was in West Marine today looking for sailing bits (half price of UK) but will look tomorrow for one or two of these. I'll see if I get them home and perhaps sell one at cost if I have it.

I also know a couple of RV spares places but unfortunately here on work so may not get to them when they are open (West are open until 8pm)

Currently sitting in the Marriott with no power at all due to a severe thunderstorm and lightning strike (working by LED camping lantern purchased a few days ago for $13) but strangely, the wireless internerd connection is working .............


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## chrisgog (May 17, 2005)

The good thing about this fan is that is fairly flat to store away other than the big fans sold at most stores. As it is quite big it gives a really powerful breeze. It has rotating feet so you can park it on the table etc. Best thing is its 12v so when off electric it is fantastic and that is why I bought it.
chris


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Any users of these fans care to let me know what the noise is like . . our 'ordinary' 12v fan makes a hell of a noise whilst in use and no good when trying to get to sleep


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## chrisgog (May 17, 2005)

Noise is less than the fixed extractor fan in skylight anyway. 

It is not too noisy on lower settings (there are 3) but I am one of those that hates any noise whatsoever when sleeping but I could tolerate it if really hot anyway. Its more expensive but perfect for the van and as it has a long lead you can move it around easily. I used to take an electric fan and sit in front of it to get some breeze but this fantastic fan is more powerful.
chris


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Drove down to West marine today and they had one endless breeze in stock. However, they were just putting on the shelves a new type which is the same size called "O2 cool". It runs off 12 volt, it has rechargable batteries built in and can take D size cells as well. It also has a mains adaptor. The rechargeables are automatically recharged when on plug power. It auto selects mains to preserve batteries when plugged in, plus stows flat - about 3"

Best news is that it's only $30 so I got one. Two speed fan and a blast on high. On low it's not noisy. They also do a small one for $17.

It seems a bit too good to be true (doesn't appear on West Catalogue, the Kemah branch only got them in yesterday) so I will try it out next weekend when back in UK and we are away, and will report back.

Linky here http://www.o2-cool.com/rechargeable_overview.php


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Can you quote the model numbers of the big and small fans you mentioned from West Marine. For that price I might have my brother pick one up for us before he comes to visit.

Sitting in a hotel lobby on an Island in Croatia next to our campsite. Nice wireless connection, we are taking advantage of since some friends are staying here. It's hot during the day, but cools off at night.


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