# Extra Window



## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi. I wondered if anyone has fitted an extra window in their motor home. We have a Chausson Welcome 98. 2011 model. There is no window behind the drivers seat. Can I get a window to match and fit myself.The dealers want 1500 pounds plus vat. Please any thoughts. John.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Some members of the forum have fitted Seitz windows themselves. I used Autovan Services in Wimborne to put one in my Chausson Welcome 75 and they did a very good job. 
It was in the same location as yours, between the driver seat and the habitation door. I chose a sliding onedue to the habitation door opening against it. Supplied and fitted approx. £500 in 2010.
http://www.autovan.co.uk/


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not sure what type of windows you have already but Seitz windows are probably the most common and the easiest to fit, used ones pop up on Ebay too.

You basically measure and cut the hole and the window and outer frame just clamps together with a bead of none setting mastic on the outside, and the blinds in their own frame inside, job done, about 30 mins to an hour.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good afternoon John, 

We recently provided a similar estimate for a customer with a 78EB for £210.00+ VAT for labour and £250.00+ VAT for the window, however our technician raised concerns about a possibilty of weakening the structure in this area so we reccomended against this.

The smallest window that would fit is hinged, not sliding so damage to both the door and window could be incurred as the door would open across the window if opened. The factory windows should be Seitz S5 which is an OEM window and blind combination not available in the aftermarket, so a Seitz S4 window and blind combination for the retail market would be fitted, so the although the external window is identical the internal blind and frame would be different from your existing windows.

In the 78EB whose front layout from memory is shared by the 98 there is a lot of light in this area from the dinette window, kitchen widow, Heki rooflight and panoramic cabin rooflight. From your avatar I can't see the panoramic rooflight, so perhaps the area is a little dark?

Regards,
Chris


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I used a sliding Seitz and it did not weaken the structure. I forget the size but it there was still a considerable amount of 'meat' left surrounding it. It fitted very well in that the seat back was still below it.
The surround colour was slightly darker than the originals because apparently that is what Seitz supply on the after market. The internal blind was exactly the same as fitted to all the other windows.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

[quote="premiermotorhomes"The factory windows should be Seitz S5 which is an OEM window and blind combination not available in the aftermarket, so a Seitz S4 window and blind combination for the retail market would be fitted, so the although the external window is identical the internal blind and frame would be different from your existing windows.

Regards,
Chris[/quote]

Why can't we buy S5 windows from dealers like yourself Chris?

I have a mixture in mine if you look at the pics.

I bought a S5 and a S4 of the same lad on Ebay, and a S5 direct from Dometic on Ebay, total cost of all 3 was £500

Dometics Ebay ID = dometicukltd only one item listed right now though.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good afternoon Kev,

Dometic do not supply the S5 window to retail channels, as you can see from the attached 2013 Dometic suggested retail price list. I can only assume they were clearing out stock ordered for the UK OEM's which was not required, and the other eBay seller may have been in the same position having ordered from a manufacturer and it was no longer required.

As we can only source S5 windows direct from the manufacturer we are restricted to how their parts systems operate where you really need to have a serial or chassis number to hand to be able to search for the parts fitted to it. We can't just search by description and where search functions do exist the descriptions may be as good as identifying its a window but go no further to provide details such as size, brand, model. You will also find that the OEM windows can be specced by the manufacturer to have different colour tints, frame colours and plastic colours which complicates finding a suitable matching window.

So the only gauranteed method of finding a suitable window in this example is to have to have identified another vehicle with the part we need and work from there.

RayC, I think the blinds matching in your motorhome may be that Chausson have fitted the S5 window but not the S5 blind, there was a time with the Twist that used Remis blinds I think. 

The S4 & S5 are supplied with different blinds which is the only difference outside of the manufacturers scope for requesting colour variations etc.

The smallest S4 sliding window is 500 x 450, and the smallest hinged window is 350 x 500. I expect there must be some variation between models with regard to the installation space available to fit a window so in our example it must have been too small to accomodate the sliding window.

Regards,
Chris


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I have just had fitted a window behind the drivers seat, today.
My vehicle is a Dethleffs Advantage and the window, owing to the smallish space is a sliding window supplied by Dethleffs.
The fitting company were Pullingers of Halstead, who are Chausson, Pilote and Dethleffs agents.
The window cost £330 from Dethleffs and Pullingers charged me £80 to fit it, plus vat.
A first class job completed in under two hours and we are delighted with the result. As our door has no window and only the drivers door and rear bed had a view to the offside, we wished to have a view of who came to the door, extra ventilation on that side and additional daylight.
Hope this is of some help.
Alan


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

*Extra window*

Hello to you all. What great replies to my thread. We are going to St Malo via ferry in March and are thinking of going to the Trigano factory. Maybe we could get it done there or buy a unit there. I can't see fitting a window, would weaken any structure. As the are fitted to the later model anyway. You have the door pillar one side and the drivers door pillar the other. The tight fit of the window unit replaces what you take out.The opening window is a problem, but a sliding window would be fine. Yes we have plenty of light but don't like the blank wall. Just thought, if the dealers will fit one how can it weaken the structure. Only my wallet at 1500 quid. Regards. John


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Extra window*



salmonfisher said:


> Hello to you all. What great replies to my thread. We are going to St Malo via ferry in March and are thinking of going to the Trigano factory. Maybe we could get it done there or buy a unit there. I can't see fitting a window, would weaken any structure. As the are fitted to the later model anyway. You have the door pillar one side and the drivers door pillar the other. The tight fit of the window unit replaces what you take out.The opening window is a problem, but a sliding window would be fine. Yes we have plenty of light but don't like the blank wall. Just thought, if the dealers will fit one how can it weaken the structure. Only my wallet at 1500 quid. Regards. John


I can only guess that in the case of the MH that Premier were looking at that even if the smallest window was fitted that there would be hardly any 'meat' left either side of the window. They may have thought that may effect the stability of the habitation door?
I very much doubt that you would get a window fitted at the Trigano factory. Do you mean the Chausson factory at Tournon? In any event manufacturers will not even fit it if asked as part of a new build as they do not like to alter the build specification on the line.
You could easily have it fitted in half a day at Autovan in Wimborne, at a cost as I said of a grand less than £1500.


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you all. Great idea's and a great help from you all. Rayc I did mean the Chausson factory , my error. I now with help from you all realise that its a job for the better weather. After finding a suitable window. Thanks again. John.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good evening John, 

I can't speak on behalf of our technicians as I am now at home so I can only make my own assumptions.

The larger an aperture created to accommodate a window, relative to the next nearest panel join or aperture such as a door or window then the weaker the wall either side of the new aperture will be, as I don't think the window frame will offer the same level of support compared to the unmodified wall.

Looking at most motorhomes these apertures are spaced a reasonable distance apart or if two are close together then there is a reasonable distance on the other side.

In my example you would have the door, new window and then the b pillar all in close proximity, of course I don't have any means to compare the dimensions of your 98 to our 78EB or other models to see how wide the gap would be between any other fittings to determine suitability for you but the further apart the apertures the better and our 78EB must have left a very small amount of body panel left either side.

Some Chausson models are actually made in Spain, but I wouldn't image the factory will accomodate you for an installation or the sale of parts i'm afraid.

I'd get another party to look at your motorhome to determine suitability and provide a new estimate.

Just make sure they measure from the inside to ensure the blind will fit within the confines of the internal furniture.

Regards,
Chris


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

premiermotorhomes said:


> Good evening John,
> 
> I can't speak on behalf of our technicians as I am now at home so I can only make my own assumptions.
> 
> ...


Chris, I am sure you are right as comparing the Welcome 78EB against my welcome 75 it is clear that the distance between the habitation door and the cab pillar is less. The side seat is obviously for a single person. 
Looking at photos of the Welcome 98 it appears to be the same style as the 78EB as far as the front end is concerned.
Ray


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

premiermotorhomes said:


> Good afternoon Kev,
> 
> Dometic do not supply the S5 window to retail channels, as you can see from the attached 2013 Dometic suggested retail price list. I can only assume they were clearing out stock ordered for the UK OEM's which was not required, and the other eBay seller may have been in the same position having ordered from a manufacturer and it was no longer required.
> Regards,
> Chris


I understand the ordering system, which I assume if you can identify a model which has the S5 you want and can get the chassis number etc you could possibly get one, maybe.

My query was why do they do it, as the S5 seem to be a better blind system in some ways.

BTW the two larger Seitz windows were used ones, but had brand new panes with the protective film on, they had white/grey outer frames so I sprayed them satin black to match the new S5.


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Good Morning all. I read my emails this morning, which included one from Chausson. This said they do not recommend fitting the window as there is no support in the panel when the hole is cut.This may allow the polyester to crack and void the warranty. Now I know that if you ask advice, you don't ignore it. But I would have thought you could fit wooden supports round the opening, between the inner and outer skin.Before fitting the window. Maybe the reply from the factory is just a bit of friendly advice regarding the warranty. I bet you have all guessed by now that I will sooner or later fit a window myself, Ha Ha. John.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

salmonfisher said:


> Good Morning all. I read my emails this morning, which included one from Chausson. This said they do not recommend fitting the window as there is no support in the panel when the hole is cut.This may allow the polyester to crack and void the warranty. Now I know that if you ask advice, you don't ignore it. But I would have thought you could fit wooden supports round the opening, between the inner and outer skin.Before fitting the window. Maybe the reply from the factory is just a bit of friendly advice regarding the warranty. I bet you have all guessed by now that I will sooner or later fit a window myself, Ha Ha. John.


I am sure you can make it strong enough. They have the gas locker door lower down in the same panel and the surround does not collapse when the door is opened.
What size Seitz do you believe you need?


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello Ray. 350x 500. with 500 being the vertical. Seitz don't make a sliding window this size, only opening ones. This has already been advised on here. But I can fix it closed, as its the view we require. Or do you know of a window that size fixed,with a blind.John.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

A peephole may be advisable before cutting the whole shape out. The man who cut the opening for my window, which is a standard fitting on some models, discovered some trunking in the sandwich that prevented the window being sighted in the optimum position.
Like most similar vans with this single seat gap, the door has a retaining catch on the outside wall. This was not affected by the sliding window but would not permit the 'normal' opening window to operate without potential damage to the window.
It would be good to see some photographs when you begin your modification.
Cheers
Alan


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Good advice Alan. Measure twice cut once comes to mind. I will wait till better weather, or take the tools to Portugal next month and do it there. Looks a piece of cake once the right window unit is found. Regards. John.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> premiermotorhomes said:
> 
> 
> > Good afternoon Kev,
> ...


Yes, thats it; thanks for summarising my rather long post getting across the same point 

I can't provide an explanation why they do it, as it would seem just as easy to offer only one window to both OEM and after market.

The glazing panels for both the S4 & S5 are the same, except manufacturers specifying non standard tints so you got a good price on all your windows which are essentially new 

Regards,
Chris


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

salmonfisher said:


> Good Morning all. I read my emails this morning, which included one from Chausson. This said they do not recommend fitting the window as there is no support in the panel when the hole is cut.This may allow the polyester to crack and void the warranty. Now I know that if you ask advice, you don't ignore it. But I would have thought you could fit wooden supports round the opening, between the inner and outer skin.Before fitting the window. Maybe the reply from the factory is just a bit of friendly advice regarding the warranty. I bet you have all guessed by now that I will sooner or later fit a window myself, Ha Ha. John.


Good morning John,

Personally I would follow the advise of Chausson. As I see it, if they make the vans then they will understand the structure, loads and risks associated with this better than anyone else.

They have recommended against installation, which would also explain why these models do not have a window factory fitted at this location.

You may find the window aperture would be tight enough to the b pillar and door frame that additional strengthening may not be viable however I don't work on the motorhomes in this respect so I can't confirm this.

If your prepared to take the risk, then it may be worth assessing how a damage repair can be undertake to the Polyester if it was to occur before you proceed with installation.

Does the space you have measured this allow for the blind as the aperture size (cut out) is 343mm x 498mm as listed on OBriens site.

I'm not aware of any non opening windows of this size i'm afraid.

Regards,
Chris


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

A few final thoughts.
Is there a Chausson Owners club? If there is, they may well have answers or at least have a contact for an original Chausson replacement window.
The window that I have had fitted is horizontal with the internal finished souround measuring 520 x 430. The internal Seitz blind we may consider at a later date. The van already had a mock cutain as a decorative feature, which is now functional. The window does open to let in air but not enough to assist in a break-in.
The fitter said that he had checked the measurements for fitting against similar vans that had the extra window.
For the record, the window supplied by Dethleffs came as a replacement window, lacking some of the original fitting clips, for they were not anticipating the window to be an additional feature.
I fully understand your need for a window.

Alan


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Hello Alan,

An excellent suggestion to consult an owners club; there is not one at present but interest is gathering at the following thread if anyone is interested http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-135630-chausson-owners-club.html

Can you post a photo of your window so I can identify it as this may assist the OP.

All Trigano dealers such as for the Chausson brand should have a Trigano Service Catalogue which you could flick through, or view online here http://www.trigano-service.com/index.asp

I have come to learn that although extensive this does not show all the parts used in the group.

Regards,
Chris


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

A picture of my new window from the inside. Outside not easy to get to...sorry.

Alan


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good afternoon,

I can't say I recognise the window, but it may be Parapress. If so our supplier used to stock these, but discontinued them and sold their remaining stock to Magnum Motorhomes http://www.magnummotorhomes.co.uk/

It is a bare bones window and did not come supplied with an internal trim, which would have to be made up by the fitter taken from another application.

Regards,
Chris


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I forgot about this outfit

I've not bought anything from them, but They did recently stock a Seitz style window as sensible money, with internal blinds, a Chinese copy I think, give them a ring.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

FWIW this is my 2008 Allegro. The factory fitted window is fixed.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Hello Emjaiuk,

Thanks for your input. The Chausson parts system lists this is a 500 x 600 and its location contradicts the OP's originl response from Chausson's not to fit one at this location.

Ordering a window this size in the UK will be for a hinged window, they are no different bar the one in the Allegro not having the support arm and have a different catch to ensure it can't be opened.

Regards,
Chris


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Many thanks. Chris,Emjiuk,rosalan, Kev n liz, Rayc. I seem to have all the details to attempt this mod, thanks to you guys. I think I will copy Emjiuk's style of window. In warmer weather. Regards to you all. John.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Just waiting for warmer weather to paint mine . It'll never be opened and the inside frame&blind matches my Rapido. This is purely for blind spot in UK with LHD


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## salmonfisher (Jan 3, 2011)

Andy. What size is the window? Can you tell me the source. Thanks for your help. John.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

350x500 off ebay £190 including a tube of dekaseal


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Cheapest I can find at the moment
http://www.rainbowconversions.co.uk/windows/windows.htm


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Posted this in my Rapido blog
Copy
Blind spot window may get done very soon too.
I bought the 350wide by 500deep seitz some time ago but it's just been too cold to progress.
These after market windows come in a dark brown/black? but my Rapido is silverish so I dismantled it and carefully removed the glazing seal. I masked up the aluminum parts/outer seal and used some small earth sleeving to fit in the seal groove to avoid more coats of paint in there.
I've bought Halfrauds grey primer for plastic and Fiat Silver top coat along with for convenience their surface cleaner wipes.
I heated the tin up in hot water whilst agitating ready for application, fired it on both sides then brought back indoors to warm for 24 hrs.
Top coat tomorrow I hope.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

What's the yellow stripe Andy, it looks like a pane to frame seal, but mine is a slot there, or is it some wire masking the groove.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

As I said Kev it is earth sleeving for 1.5/2.5mm conductors


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Techno100 said:


> As I said Kev it is earth sleeving for 1.5/2.5mm conductors


I really need to learn to read these threads  :roll:


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Finished job
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1377831.html#1377831


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

One of the reasons we changed from our chausson to our Frankia was to get more light in the van. We considered adding roof windows and a side one but we thought that by the time we had added all the bits we wanted a change of van was a better option. Be careful not to weaken the structure of your van if you do fit an extra window.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

It's hardly something you can be careful about, it either will or it won't. Judgment call

Manufacturers are not likely to commit to saying "yes it's fine" as the repercussion could be "you said it was alright!"


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