# Hymer Starlight v NB Arto



## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Thinking of upgrading to one of the above with an automatic Merc engine.

Has anyone any views on either.

Thanks in advance

Wups(70+)


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi

You won't get Niesmann Arto on Merc auto as they are all FWD on Fiat. The Niesmann Flair is on Iveco RWD and has been for quite a few years.

As for Hymer possibly you mean Starline as these are on the Mercs.

I think that the Arto is the best looking and the Fiats are supposed to drive very well, of course I am biased towards the Niesmann as we have a Flair.

At the end of the day Niesmann are part of the Hymer group.

Martin


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## tony5677 (Jul 9, 2007)

I cannot comment on the new Hymer Starline, but I have a 2003
Starline 640 on a sprinter, with a sprintshift auto box.

50000 miles + .still like new,(no kids no dogs, only let the wife inside on a good day)

The main difference when driving is that Merc suspension is softer.
Hymer did suffer from iffy build quality for a short time a few years ago.
Appears to be OK now.

Hope this helps.

Tony


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

we have an 05 hymer on a merc chassis, IMHO a little after this date quality went down, the very latest may be ok haven't looked. 

Merc cars where iffy at the start of 2000, sadly built to a price point rather than quality, but seem ok now.

To be honest I think it will be down to layout and similar to buying a house, the feel good factor when you enter.

Roy


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

We like our Frankia on a Merc chassis,has the 3litre V6 with autne of the things we like in the Frankia is the full cooker.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Wupert

As said above the Arto does not come on a Merc chassis.

We are very pleased with ours, it is manual and FWD.

After 10 years it still is in excellent condition. 

I cannot compare it with the Hymer model you are looking at, but when I was looking at N+B and Hymers I considered the build quality of the N+B to be superior.

The Arto is constructed with an aluminium foam sandwich, which i think is different from the Hymer and is unlikely to suffer from damp.

The N+B factory are helpful and, by comments on here, more so than Hymer - same group different history and factory.

There are others on here with more knowledge of the Arto, 'Gaspode' for one.

Geoff


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

I'm starting to think it that the Arto will be our first choice.

We are both just turned 70 and our next van has to be DVLA proof.

We also fancy a wee touch of luxury The Arto seems to fit the bill.

However we remain open to suggestions on other makes, with the only restriction being "Under 3500 Kgs"


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm not sure Hymer do anything on a Merc under 3500Kg. The major difference in construction is that the inner skin of the Hymer is ply whereas the NB is Aluminium. 

What's the DVLA proof bit ?

Good luck, Dave.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

davesport said:


> I'm not sure Hymer do anything on a Merc under 3500Kg. The major difference in construction is that the inner skin of the Hymer is ply whereas the NB is Aluminium.
> 
> What's the DVLA proof bit ?
> 
> Good luck, Dave.


DVLA proof is .....After the age of 70 which we both are this month we have to pass a medical every 3 years to be able to continue driving vehicles over 3500kgs.

We are OK for 3 years so our Augusta is fine but we fancy some luxury without being concerned about the next medical


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Wupert said:


> davesport said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure Hymer do anything on a Merc under 3500Kg. The major difference in construction is that the inner skin of the Hymer is ply whereas the NB is Aluminium.
> ...


Wupert

Trying to keep under 3500kg in an Arto will be a struggle unless you are prepared to run with empty water and half a tank of fuel - fine if you can fill up on arrival at sites, but for my wild-camping I had to upgrade to 3850(easy to do).

One of the MHF Members I know had an Arto but at 70 decided that he had to get a lighter MH, for medical reasons.

Have you renewed your licence for your 70 birthday yet? Did you have a medical and retain C1? If not you are stuck with 3500kg. Apologises if I am threading on any medical sensitivities.

If you are looking at Artos, or any other good-quality, therefore more heavily built, MH be sure to get it to a weighbridge to establish exactly the payload you will have for 3500 max. Don't believe a dealer!!

Sorry if this has put any doubts in your mind but it is better to know now than later.

Geoff


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > davesport said:
> ...


Hi Geoff

Thanks for your help

Thankfully no medical probs at the moment and we have another three years before our next driving medical.

We tow an Aigo and have found that much of our kit goes into the car with no problem.

We are looking for a luxury vehicle that we can use for some years to come. The twin single berth fits the bill, however if we cant keep under 3500kgs we will keep the Augusta until something suitable appears.

I'm in touch with Travelworld and hope to visit them when we return to the UK in a few weeks time

I'm finding it impossible to get an extras/options list for the Arto


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## DrRoger (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi Wupert, we pick up our new Hymer Exsis i570 next weekend-"The New Lightness" says the brochure! I've been insulin dependant diabetic since 17 so now have the 3500kg limit. Our dealer is Lee at Edgehill Motorhomes & he's been very helpful-good price on our LHD 'import' + reasonable part-exchange on our A/S Devon. The Exsis has the frost-vulnerable water bits in a couple of heated & insulated trays, but not the full double floors of many of the other Hymers. The additional weight for ours is given as over 300kg & that's after the addition of full tank, passenger, Oyster satellite system & tv that we don't have-yet. I found it a lovely drive-very quiet & smooth similar to the 5 series BMW that I spent a chunk of me redundancy on!

We also liked the look of Dethleffs that we saw at the NEC last year-I was looking for lesser width than our Devon, 2.66m-the Dethleffs was 2.17m & our Exsis 2.22m. Sick of clonking wing mirrors!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Wupert said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > Wupert said:
> ...


Well of course with a 'trailer' the payload problem is much easier.

When you are travelling back from Austria it may be worthwhile contacting Bundesvan in Germany and some of the Dutch dealers to see if they have anything to suit with oven etc. Prices are usually better than UK.

Good Luck looking.

Geoff


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## RVman69 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi Everyone 

I hope you dont mind me getting involved in your discussions but I can help clear up some points.

Hymer currently offer a brand new model called the 'Starlight' named so due to being built on the Mercedes 316 chassis but having an all up weight of 3,500kgs with a decent payload, we have the Starlight 575 & 585 arriving into stock very soon

We are also the sole UK agent for Niesmann + Bischoff and would agree with the comments about the build quality, N+B are really Hymer's luxury division if you will. This of course does come with a premium and it also makes it more difficult to get the weight to 3,500kgs. We currently have 3 models of Arto that are available at 3,500kgs and one in stock currently - the Arto 66 F (just won the MMM luxury motorhome of the year award)

Anymore questions let me know, or if any of you would like to visit us and view these units then please contact us.

Kind Regards
Ross Edwards 
Travelworld Motorhomes


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ross

You are very welcome to get involved in the discussion. I think many MHF Members wish that more Dealers would.

You say you have an Arto in stock. It would be most interesting if you could provide weighbridge weights and loading statistics (persons, fuel and water tank capacities etc) for each, to see what payload is available for the respective authorised weights.

Please do not be shy :wink: - it is information that I would require before parting with any money on any MH. In fact, if I were buying from a Dealer I would make it a term of the contract.

Geoff


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Hello Ross, welcome aboard. :lol: 

I was extolling the virtue of your employees yesterday evening.  

tony


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## PKershaw (Apr 16, 2013)

Hi, like everyone is saying the Arto is only available on a Fiat, however it is a fantastic product. In the case of Hymer you are correct it is the "Starlight" and not the "Starline" that you should be looking at, the Starlight was developed for people just like you, who want the Mercedes but at a lighter weight but retaining a reasonable pay load, however if you want a fair comparison against the Arto then look at the Exsis-i, this is on Fiat and also developed for light weight.
The debate about the side walls is easy, they both have probably the best in the industry, the Arto has Aluminium inner and outer walls with foam insulation, however the Hymer has its patented Pual system using foam injection that is generally regarded as one of the best in the industry, with no foam block joins in the wall and fantastic water tightness.
You have probably selected the best two A Class examples for build quality, I wish you well with your decision, why not visit Travelworld who stock both ranges.
Good Luck


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Never heard of an automatic ENGINE :roll: Automatic gearboxes are fairly common though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> Never heard of an automatic ENGINE :roll: Automatic gearboxes are fairly common though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


My engine is 'automatic' it adjusts output according to the manual gear and load I put on it - or stalls  

Geoff


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Both are good choices.

However we went to the N&B factory at Polch the year before last and I wasn't impressed at all.

Even the head salesman(Jurgen) said they weren't built as good as they used to be.

A lot of parts are sourced from wherever they can get them cheapest he said.

Example, the whole front grp panel are from Turkey as it was too expensive to get them manufactured in Germany as they used to do.

In fact he said that when they first staring getting them from Turkey a few years ago, out of every 10 front panels received 7 of them were so poor quality that they couldn't be used. AND, despite this it was still cheaper to go this route :roll: He did say the quality has since improved from Turkey.

Don't believe what some say about N&B, Hymer etc being great feats of German engineering and everything partwise is from Germany,that was maybe the case in the 90's. He also said Concorde now get the very same front panels from Germany.

We have a Hymer by the way and a beautiful one at that, the top of the range model.

Paul.


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

Nick of Bundesvan is in Devon but will search a van from Europe for you

joe


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Sorry, meant to say that Concorde get there front grp panels from Turkey.

Paul.


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## suegalway (Jun 28, 2012)

*NIESMANN BISCHOFF ARTO*

Our first motorhome, a 1995 Compass Drifter (Fiat) and we've had it for just over a year and so fairly new to motorhoming (although we've used it A LOT). We saw a NIESMANN BISCHOFF ARTO at the weekend in Barmouth and I must admit I fell in love with the look of it. We (well, my partner, Neal, does off-road Enduro/Hare and Hounds with a KTM motorbike and the Arto has a garage which would be great for the Enduro meetings so the bike can be stowed safely away. We usually overnight in a farmer's field where the track is set up and some people have had their bikes stolen overnight while they slept in motorhomes! Also the fixed bed appeals to me. I've been having a look around but they seem expensive. Any other suggestions for a motorhome with a garage to fit an off road bike and a fixed bed (oh and a separate shower room). Not asking too much, am I?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

*Re: NIESMANN BISCHOFF ARTO*



suegalway said:


> Our first motorhome, a 1995 Compass Drifter (Fiat) and we've had it for just over a year and so fairly new to motorhoming (although we've used it A LOT). We saw a NIESMANN BISCHOFF ARTO at the weekend in Barmouth and I must admit I fell in love with the look of it. We (well, my partner, Neal, does off-road Enduro/Hare and Hounds with a KTM motorbike and the Arto has a garage which would be great for the Enduro meetings so the bike can be stowed safely away. We usually overnight in a farmer's field where the track is set up and some people have had their bikes stolen overnight while they slept in motorhomes! Also the fixed bed appeals to me. I've been having a look around but they seem expensive. Any other suggestions for a motorhome with a garage to fit an off road bike and a fixed bed (oh and a separate shower room). Not asking too much, am I?


Be careful how tightly you narrow your spec.

E.G. you say 'separate shower', do you mean separate from the toilet and hand basin? If so, that is a recent innovation, which means you are buying a newer more expensive vehicle, also you sacrifice floor space, often to the detriment of the kitchen.

If you drop that separate shower requirement the Arto will almost certainly suit your spec.

What do you call expensive - you do not specify your price range. I paid 27.600 for my Arto with only 16,000 miles, but that was 4 years ago and a private sale.

The high quality MHs are hard to find so one has to be patient.

Keep researching, keep looking - the right MH is there somewhere.

Geoff


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## palaceboy (Mar 9, 2008)

We just love our Arto , bought it in 2008 on E Bay for £30k just 8000 miles on the clock . Our only problem is the cracked shower tray which we will sort out in next years projects and condensation on the windscreen( now have external silver screens and a Karcher ) to sort this out .


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

rather old fashioned the all in one unit of shower and toilet etc.my van has a separate shower and it is 2008, now 5 years old. A lot of the Hobby/N&b, Hymer fit into this style, but are put together well. 

cabby


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## griffs (Apr 9, 2008)

palaceboy said:


> We just love our Arto , bought it in 2008 on E Bay for £30k just 8000 miles on the clock . Our only problem is the cracked shower tray which we will sort out in next years projects and condensation on the windscreen( now have external silver screens and a Karcher ) to sort this out .


 Hi.

Please can you tel me where you purchased your silver screens,we have got a 2005 arto, top class bit of kit.

Thanks.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

palaceboy said:


> We just love our Arto , bought it in 2008 on E Bay for £30k just 8000 miles on the clock . Our only problem is the cracked shower tray which we will sort out in next years projects and condensation on the windscreen( now have external silver screens and a Karcher ) to sort this out .


I have thought about silver screens but have wondered if they really solve the condensation problem, so it is interesting to note you still use a Karcher, as we do. If that is still needed I am thinking mayybe the cost of the screens for that large window may not be justified.

I would be interested in your comments please.

Geoff


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## suegalway (Jun 28, 2012)

nicholsong said:


> palaceboy said:
> 
> 
> > We just love our Arto , bought it in 2008 on E Bay for £30k just 8000 miles on the clock . Our only problem is the cracked shower tray which we will sort out in next years projects and condensation on the windscreen( now have external silver screens and a Karcher ) to sort this out .
> ...


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

suegalway said:


> ....................
> Hi both - excuse my ignorance, but what is a Karcher?
> Thanks, Sue


A karcher is a window vac,I have one too as they are an essential item,particularly for the A class windscreen in the morning. :wink:


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## suegalway (Jun 28, 2012)

*Window Vac*

Ah! Thanks. I didn't know there was such a thing.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> ....................
> 
> I have thought about silver screens but have wondered if they really solve the condensation problem, so it is interesting to note you still use a Karcher, as we do. If that is still needed I am thinking mayybe the cost of the screens for that large window may not be justified.
> 
> ...


Hi Geoff,
Silver screens do solve the condensation problem in colder weather,as to whether the cost is justified it depends how you use the truck.We go out in all temperatures so for us the screens are worth it.

We have found that in the warmer weather there is only minimal or no condensation on the windscreen in the morning and the Karcher window vac makes short work of it.


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## palaceboy (Mar 9, 2008)

We bought the silver screens £245 at the peterborough show and the Karcher £35 but we have not used either yet . We tend to travel down to Spain in Sept/Oct and back Mar/Apr and condensation has been a major problem in the morning if you want a early start ( befor 10am) and it can be quite dangerous if you dont get the window clear . I have used the Karcher at home and it works brilliantly so i cant see how it will not work in the motorhome.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

palaceboy said:


> We bought the silver screens £245 at the peterborough show and the Karcher £35 but we have not used either yet . We tend to travel down to Spain in Sept/Oct and back Mar/Apr and condensation has been a major problem in the morning if you want a early start ( befor 10am) and it can be quite dangerous if you dont get the window clear . I have used the Karcher at home and it works brilliantly so i cant see how it will not work in the motorhome.


I thought from your first post that they had sorted the problem, but I see you said 'to sort' it out.

GBP 245 seems cheap if they are made to fit an Arto - or did you buy standard ones which do not fully cover the screen?

Whose make are they? And how do they attach - often a problem without cab doors?

Geoff


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## Gailey (Jul 23, 2013)

nicholsong said:


> palaceboy said:
> 
> 
> > We bought the silver screens £245 at the peterborough show and the Karcher £35 but we have not used either yet . We tend to travel down to Spain in Sept/Oct and back Mar/Apr and condensation has been a major problem in the morning if you want a early start ( befor 10am) and it can be quite dangerous if you dont get the window clear . I have used the Karcher at home and it works brilliantly so i cant see how it will not work in the motorhome.
> ...


Does anyone know the answers to these questions please?


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## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

I can maybe offer a solution to one of the question asked, although my van is a Hymer I have the same problem of attaching the silver screen. 
The previous van I owned came with a silver screen that I have kept for my newer van, there was a vertical aluminium U shaped channel screwed to the body of the van about 3 inches beyond the offside window. The silver screen has a vertical pocket stitched into the end of it inside of which is a tube/rod that slips into the aforementioned channel. 
I have retained the screen and, planning ahead, I took a photo of the aluminium channel for future reference, to date I have done nothing about tracking down a similar channel as I am loath to drill into the side of the van although I must admit that the arrangement was successful on my previous van.

Hope this helps.

Norman.


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## DrRoger (Aug 21, 2010)

To give you half an answer!

Silver Screens are a brand & make the original Silver Screens http://www.silverscreens.co.uk/index.html . They are very helpful when you ring them.

No idea how they fit an Arto but on our Hymer Exsis i LHD there is a triangular flap that goes over the driver's door, completely covers the windscreen, then covers the offside (habitation side) window & fastens by means of a flap that fastens to 3 suckers inside the sliding window. The Exsis is slightly narrower than B series A-Class Hymers, our screens are slightly different for that reason & a perfect fit. There is velcro either side of the windscreen so the top drops down during daylight.

We have been fulltiming since September 2014 & are now at Parc Verger site in the Limousin Perigord with temps down to -5C. We have no condensation whatsoever.

Roger


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