# Unfit for Purpose? Autotrail Apache 700 SE - Advice please.



## timotei

My new Autotrail Apache 700 SE was collected from Discover, Cannock, on Saturday 19 July 2008. They have been excellent in all our dealings so far, but I guess we are about to find out how good they really are!!!

There were a number of issues we noticed on pickup (some of which Discover, to their credit, have already rectified), but having had a week, and more importantly a full weekend to look over the vehicle, the attached file (excel) is the current problems we have! The main one is the water leak through the front habitation window - water has poured in here, leaving the side wall blistered and marked, the carpets soaked, stained and, to be blunt, stinky, and some seating cushions in a similar condition. I dread to think what the state of the flooring is below!

I'm off to Cannock for 9am tomorrow morning (edit - this is now more likely to be 10.00 - 10.30ish as i have been advised to take photographic and video evidence of each fault), with the intention of returning the vehicle as unfit for purpose and insisting on a replacement - I believe there are just too many faults for repairs and individual replacements to be a viable alternative.

What do you think?

I am hopeful the dealers will be helpful and supportive as they have been so far. 

Am I being unreasonable in expecting something to look and work as it should having paid out something in excess of £40,000???


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## wackywyco

*Apache faults*

Sorry to hear of your problems,I reckon you should push for your money back. it certainly seems unfit for the purpose etc. Just as an aside,the van could not by any chance be one of the batch caught in the floods at Autotrail last year? best wishes and good luck ..


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## MikeCo

I would definately take it back, show them the faults, give them a copy of your list, leave it there and tell them that a solictors letter is on the way. I went on a tour of the Auto-Trail factory a few years ago and I was amazed with how much sealant that they used which seemed to hold the whole thing together
The new Burstner we bought has faults but they are nearly all related to Fiat rather than Burstner.
Best of luck.


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## Broom

Hi Timotei

Good luck with your motorhome problems, I do not think they will take it back, play it very cagey, by taking it away you have excepted it, they may say you were responsible for the leak.

Is the leak in a sliding window, these seem to be causing problems at the moment, or has it been left open.

Again lots of luck

Best Regards
Broom


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## GerryD

That's a very long and comprehensive list. If you intend to reject the motorhome as unfit for purpose, my advice would be to have some form of independant confirmation that all of the faults exist. Also, if you have hire purchase on the MH, tell the finance company what you intend to do and present them with a copy of the letter that you give to the dealer.
Leave the vehicle with the dealer with strict written instructions that you will not accept a repair and have an independant witness with you at the time.
THis will either be easy, or more likely, the hardest fight that you have ever undertaken.
Gerry


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## tonka

Tough one... Good luck..
I live almost next door to them, might walk the dog past at about 9.10 and listen for any shouting  
Seriously... Item 1, Blinds, I dont think is a fault as this is just how they work..
Item 2 is more the case of a base vehicle problem.
Item 19, bathroom door. Usually just an adjustment. Mine was same.
However the water ingress is a real bad one, Unfit for purpose ??


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## timotei

Thanks all for your replies so far.

Our previous Apache, the identical 2007 model was virtually perfect, with just one or two minor problems such as the overlocker lights which failed regularly. However, in terms of build quality and finish it was years ahead of what is sitting on my drive tonight!

I will let you know how I fare tomorrow on my return, and whether my opinion of Discover, Cannock, is still a positive one.

In the meantime, if you are down that way tomorrow morning and fancy taking a look at the vehicle, giving me your opinion, please stop by and say hello!!!

Timotei!.


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## fransgrandad

*Re: Unfit for Purpose? Autotrail Apache 700 SE - Advice plea*



timotei said:


> My new Autotrail Apache 700 SE was collected from Discover, Cannock, on Saturday 19 July 2008. They have been excellent in all our dealings so far, but I guess we are about to find out how good they really are!!!
> 
> There were a number of issues we noticed on pickup (some of which Discover, to their credit, have already rectified), but having had a week, and more importantly a full weekend to look over the vehicle, the attached file (excel) is the current problems we have! The main one is the water leak through the front habitation window - water has poured in here, leaving the side wall blistered and marked, the carpets soaked, stained and, to be blunt, stinky, and some seating cushions in a similar condition. I dread to think what the state of the flooring is below!
> 
> I'm off to Cannock for 9am tomorrow morning, with the intention of returning the vehicle as unfit for purpose and insisting on a replacement - I believe there are just too many faults for repairs and individual replacements to be a viable alternative.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> I am hopeful the dealers will be helpful and supportive as they have been so far. If not, I'm sure a few hours of handing out copies of the attached file and offering guided tours of my vehicle to prospective customers will be enough to change their minds!
> 
> Am I being unreasonable in expecting something to look and work as it should having paid out something in excess of £40,000???


Hi everyone,

This is the sort of problem that prompted me to write to the Jt M.D. of Auto-Trail I believe that he, like the M.D. of Swift should face these problems, and show that his company can provide the same level of customer care that is offered by Swift and others who recognise this forum as an important medium to all of us with an interest in motorhomes and matters related to us.

I did write on another occasion and had a negative reply. The sort of major fault as reported is not acceptable in any circumstances, and while we all know the dealer has the legal liability there is no reason why Auto-Trail should not step in and have the vehicle sorted or replaced.

So, as I am told by Auto-Trail that they monitor these forums we can only hope they will do the right thing and put their house and their product in order, and explain how this vehicle was allowed to leave the factory in the condition reported.

I wish you well but from my own sad experiences with this company, I do not hold much hope but do not let them off the hook you deserve much better treatment than
you, I.
, and the rest of the of us get from some (thank God not all) manufacturers.

Les.

Sorry folks still trying to sort out the quote thingy system and as you see I failed. I hope you can make sense of it, Zeb if you are on line can you do your magic and I will have to get you to show me what I am doing wrong.


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## 107088

Rejection as unfit for purpose, is a very difficult thing to prove.

Theres a thread on the forum which discusses this in some details, a well as the S.of Goods act. The info was posted by, I think, a Solicitor. Basically, from memory, its a minefield. 

However, IMHO, I would adjust your spreadsheet by prioritising the faults, in order of horribleness ( is that a word?) from the top downwards, frankly, I saw the list, and thought, well, its not good, but most should have been sorted prior to the sale on a halfway decent quality check at the dealer. Then I saw the wall boards falling off and that is more serious than, say, the white deposit on a window winder.

Also, I suggest that as the dealer will be considered as expert if this goes to court. Unless you have specific, qualified expertise, your opinion will be considered as amateur, and therefore, possibly flawed and bias, considering you own the vehicle. I would engage the services of a qualified engineer, with expertise in the relelvant areas to support your claim, and for all that, you still apparently face a very steep uphill battle to get the vehicle replaced. 

Theres another memebr who had a completely rotten floor, and that was replaced by the factory rather than the vehicle bing replaced entirely.

Good luck tho'


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## timotei

Tonka,

thanks for your thoughts....on our 2007 model the blinds shut with the mirror in place, but adjusted....is this unusual? do most autotrails require the mirror to be removed. It is a small issue on its own, but an irritation as it means we are, in however small a way, worse off than with our previous vehicle.

With regard to the 2nd fault, i feel that even if it is a base vehicle fault, Autotrail should have rejected the vehicle or sent it for rectification, and the dealers should have done likewise. Water being able to ingress to the cab sub-structure can only lead to long term problems surely?

Finally, the bathroom door is, I understand a common fault on the Autotrail range,...so why is it not picked up by their fitting teams, quality inspection teams, or the PDI at dealership? Knowingly providing a door which swings open while moving, thus distracting the driver and putting all occupants of the vehicle, and other road users, at danger, is surely not only providing a vehicle that is unfit for purpose, but also potentially laying themselves open to huge payouts in the courts if an accident were to occur as a direct result of this?

I strongly believe this vehicle is unfit for purpose at the very best...at worst, who knows?

Timotei.


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## timotei

post removed - sorry - not sure how to delete this entry now???


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## Rapide561

*Discover*

Hi

Glad to see your van is from Discover. Was it not that same firm that offered a 30 day return policy as discussed recently on MHF, and in which they refunded the MHF'er without question?

Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-46753-30.html

I have had a look on the Discover website and cannot find reference to the 30 day thing, but look at this page and it does state "money back guarantee". Whether that applies to caravans, tents, motorhomes, I do not know, but there is no wording to indicate that there are exclusions.

http://www.discover.co.uk/search/viewresults.asp

Let us know please what happens.

R

Note - the mirror/cab blind thing was the same on the Swift. Why on earth motorhomes have a rear view mirror is beyond me anyway. Mine went in trhe bin as I had no rear window to view through!


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