# Fiat or Peugeot that is the question????



## aldershot1 (May 21, 2006)

Hi everyone, I am looking for any views or opinions that will help me with a dilemma i am confronted with.

We have just ordered a Autocruise Augusta at the NEC and I specifically requested a Peugeot chassis (with 3L engine)which the dealer agreed to and raised the appropriate stock order. I have since received confirmation letter from the dealer specifing a Fiat chassis.

My dilemma is that I have previously owned Peugeot based MH's without any major mishaps and also I have a Peugeot dealer nearby capable of carrying out services etc. I may be forced to consider the Fiat and would welcome your thoughts on the differences between the two manufacturers both in terms of the chassis cabs themselves and also subsequent customer service.

Any thoughts would be most welcomed.

Thanks

A1


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Peugeot for me.

Fiat have not looked good during the Juddergate saga!!

No problems getting a new gearbox and clutch from Peugeot. I just phoned and told Peugeot UK I had a judder, and from then on it all happened very smoothly. _(Oh - pun not intended this time.  )_

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

I know that Autocruise have historically used Peugeot and Swift have used Fiat, have they changed since you ordered the'van? 

As you ordered a van with a Peugeot base, they should supply it with a Peugeot base - especially as you ordered it with the servicing capability nearby as a consideration.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Peugeot


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

During my quick visit to Spinney yesterday (see another post) I happened to poke my head into a couple of Autocruise PVC's and noticed one was on Fiat and one on Peugeot.

The only difference I could spot (apart from the badges) was that the Pug had that over screen map shelf thingey and the Fiat didn't. Personally I'd be much happier without the shelf as I've clouted myself on it a couple of times when exitting driver's seats in Pug based vans at shows/dealers etc. It just seems too low and in your eye (or forehead line). OK for people getting out via the cab door but not so good for motorhomers heading aft via the internal route.

There again I get goosed by the offside handrake on Ford Transit conversions so I guess I'm just prone to that sort of thing. :lol: 

SDA


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

The only difference is the badges and the dealer network.

In fact if you search on Wikipedia for "Peugeot Boxer Van" this is the page that is returned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_Boxer


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

I can't comment on the 3l engine. I have owned 2 vans on the X250 chassis, a Fiat 2.3 and a Peugeot 2.2.

They are most certainly not the same and I much prefer the Peugeot


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

I think that the main point being made is whilst they're both much the same vehicle. Peugeot seem to have accepted and are prepared to deal with the problems, that for me would be the deciding factor.

Wobby


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Waggy said:


> I can't comment on the 3l engine. I have owned 2 vans on the X250 chassis, a Fiat 2.3 and a Peugeot 2.2.
> 
> They are most certainly not the same and I much prefer the Peugeot


The van is the same, but those 2 engines aren't.

A 2.0/2.2 litre Ducato will have a Peugeot/Citroen supplied engine and a 2.3/2.8/3.0 litre Boxer/Relay will have a Fiat (well Iveco really) supplied engine.

For _any given engine size_ the only different is the grille and badges.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Peugeot*

Had you not ordered I would have said Neither.

As you have placed an order and reading your service requirement.

Peugeot


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## rrusty (Sep 15, 2007)

I had a 2007 Fiat Bessacarr E560 & now have an Augusta on a Peugeot.

The map shelve thing in the Peugeot, ok after a couple of times hitting your head you realise its there and avoid it.

The driver & passenger seats have got the seat belts attached to the tops of the seats the Fiat have them in the pillar.

As for the judder I was not that bothered about it on both vans and so far after 9000 miles have managed to handle it.

Rusty


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## johnc (May 1, 2005)

aldershot1 said:


> Hi everyone, I am looking for any views or opinions that will help me with a dilemma i am confronted with.
> 
> We have just ordered a Autocruise Augusta at the NEC and I specifically requested a Peugeot chassis (with 3L engine)which the dealer agreed to and raised the appropriate stock order. I have since received confirmation letter from the dealer specifing a Fiat chassis.
> 
> ...


Has to be Peugeot, they have stuck with me and when I complained about the gearbox fix, they changed another component. They also carried out all of the initial water ingrss mods without any fuss.

My next van will be Peugeot, would not touch Fiat.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

I have the Peugeot 3l on my Oakmont

The whole set up is fantastic

Its a no brainer Peugeot before Fiat


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

A quick trawl thru the interweb finds these Scouts for sale:

'91 £8K
'95 £14K
'96 £19K
'97 £14K
'97 £20K
'99 £26K
'01 £25K
'03 £43K
'03 £24K
'04 £35K
'05 £29K
'06 £37K

The '03 £43K is a Merc, as are the '91 and the '97 @ £20K - the rest are Peugeot

The '04 £35K is listed by Brownhills, the other '03 is a private sale and the '05 could be private but it might be trade it's hard to tell. 

As a rough rule of thumb it seems the difference per year for the earlier vans is £1.5K and increases to about £2K around '97. So a '96 should be £16K, a '97 £18K, '98 £20K, '99 would be £22K, an '00 £24K, an '01 £26K, '02 £28K, '03 £30K etc, with allowances for low/high miles and Pug/Merc chassis. So some on the list above a seriously over priced and some well under priced.

SDA


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Wupert said:


> I have the Peugeot 3l on my Oakmont
> 
> The whole set up is fantastic
> 
> Its a no brainer Peugeot before Fiat


Sorry, but you have an Iveco 3 litre in your Peugeot.


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## gemini24 (Nov 4, 2007)

i have the fiat 3la and i would highly recommend it the first thing i was going to do was get it chipped but there is no need to do this as it has 150bhp.
If you drive it at 60mph you should get 24 to 26 mpg so i hope this will help you.
regards.
Alan


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## Nagsheadwarrior (Oct 15, 2009)

*Pug/Fiat*

Hi,
I have sold Autocruises for many years and can definiteley confirm the Peugeot 3.0hdi and the Fiat 3.0jtd are exactly the same, they both have the same spec and the same superb Iveco engine. We have a 58 plate Augusta on the pitch based on a Peugeot with only 2250 miles yet it is already averaging 27mpg, incredible! The only difference as Andy says is that the Pug has the rather ugly and annoying shelf thing in the cab, but its hardly a huge issue!
If you ordered it on a Pug though you should expect to get it on a pug, however it is sometimes difficult to get hold of enough Pug cabs with the big alko chassis hence why you will see a fair few Autocruises on Fiats, this is something which you used to see from Autosleeper and Autotrail in the past.
Fiat dont accept the clutch judder exists on 3.0s and wont fettle it where as Peugeot will if it occurs and if you dont have a local Fiat dealer but do have a Peugeot one it might be worth waiting for a Pug but if that means 6 months delay I would take the Fiat and not worry about it as remember, they are the same van! 
Best of luck,
Jody. Campbells Motorhomes Preston.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

As I understand it the shelf thing appears on both the Fiat and Peugeot panel van conversions and I think comes on all cabs.. Perhaps the person was looking at different year models. 

The only advantage of buying a 3 litre Fiat is that, unlike the Pug, the Fiat offers the option of a Comfortmatic gearbox which we understand is judder free. There are several cases of 3 litre judder so the choice will come down to which company is likely to effect a solution which up to now is not available.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Pug/Fiat*



Nagsheadwarrior said:


> Hi,
> I have sold Autocruises for many years and can definiteley confirm the Peugeot 3.0hdi and the Fiat 3.0jtd are exactly the same, they both have the same spec and the same superb Iveco engine. We have a 58 plate Augusta on the pitch based on a Peugeot with only 2250 miles yet it is already averaging 27mpg, incredible! The only difference as Andy says is that the Pug has the rather ugly and annoying shelf thing in the cab, but its hardly a huge issue!
> If you ordered it on a Pug though you should expect to get it on a pug, however it is sometimes difficult to get hold of enough Pug cabs with the big alko chassis hence why you will see a fair few Autocruises on Fiats, this is something which you used to see from Autosleeper and Autotrail in the past.
> Fiat dont accept the clutch judder exists on 3.0s and wont fettle it where as Peugeot will if it occurs and if you dont have a local Fiat dealer but do have a Peugeot one it might be worth waiting for a Pug but if that means 6 months delay I would take the Fiat and not worry about it as remember, they are the same van!
> ...


Welcome to facts Jody of Campbells in Preston, nice to see another dealer participating.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Stanner said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Peugeot 3l on my Oakmont
> ...


It says Peugeot on it 

But if its an Iveco derivative then its still a fine bit of kit.

Purrs along it does

Wups


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Wupert said:


> It says Peugeot on it


That's the only bit made by Peugeot.......... :wink:


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi, we have ordered a 2010 swift voyager which only comes with a fiat base, i spoke to our fiat dealer mechanic about the problems with the fiat and he said the 2009-2010 models are now all sorted,fingers crossed.good luck and enjoy, Matt


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## joandfran (Oct 27, 2007)

Two things made me go for a Peugeot base on my new m/h - that parcel shelf over the Peugeot cab is extremely useful storage space, and you soon learn not to bang your head on it. But the steering wheel remote controls for the audio that you get with the Peugeot is the clincher for me - should be standard on everything on the road, as they are a major factor in reducing fiddling-induced accidents.


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## aldershot1 (May 21, 2006)

WOW! Thanks everyone for your views and opinions they have all been a great help in arriving at my next course of action: . I have arranged to meet with dealer next week and if interested I'll keep you posted.

Once again my thanks to one and all 

A1


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## slaynt (May 9, 2009)

OK here is the crunch bottom line. We know that new vehicles are all computer controlled. Additionally that some such as Ford have flywheels made of jelly beans which disintegrate quickly.
What you want and expect from a new vehicle is that it will run reliably and not dump you in Khazackstan with wild pigs and Borat for company, and no mobile phone connectivity. So surely the first most important requirement is reliability. Far more important to me than 'occasionally I will bump my head on a shelf'.
Recently my daughter had a Fiat which broke down. Cutting a long story short, the Fiat garage wanted £70 to diagnose the fault. If it was the ECU, that would be £450 plus VAT, and no you don't get the £70 diagnosis fee back. The car had done 11,000 miles from new. After a lot of effort we found a company in Nottingham called ECU Testing Ltd and took the ECU there. It was indeed faulty, and there was no charge for that. For £100 they fixed it and gave a TWO year warranty. Suffice to say that this company is the absolute best run organisation I have ever seen, bar none. Outside there was a long queue of garage vans bringing faulty car electronics to them. Inside everyone was busy, there were 4 girls on the phone talking to customers and about 4 people at the back with computers and wires, fixing ECUs, Air Mass samplers and so on. Daughter said she was fed up with this unreliable car and was thinking of getting a Peugeot or Renault, and what did the Boss think of them? The reply , in between guffaws of laughter was 'You already own the least reliable of all vehicles on the road. If you want the second least reliable, get anything French. Get anything Japanese.'
I don't know if we are allowed to plug businesses here, but if we are, the company is ECU Testing Ltd, 23A Chruch St, Eastwood, Nottingham, NG16 3HP. Tel 01773 535638. email [email protected]
Recently I saw a 2008 unregistered new Hymer in a dealer, at £12,000 off list. That was over 25% off. I could have got a bit extra mortgage on one of the houses I own, and bought it. But the bottom line is I would be driving it around in constant fear of it breaking down. Having run a garage, I want a vehicle that I can fix if it breaks down. I can't fix a modern vehicle so I don't want one. All this 'automatic lights switch on' and 'automatic windscreen wipers' stuff just adds electronics to go wrong, and allows incompetent morons to drive what is really a lethal weapon the licence for which if you are my age, you got over 40 years ago. Has anyone checked that you or I are still competent to control this lethal weapon in the last 40 years? Probably not. Personally I do not want to be insulted by the implication that I do not realise that it is dark so I must switch on the lights, or that it is raining and I need the wipers on. A friend of mine was injured recently when he was washing his car. He splashed a wet sponge on the windscreen to wash it, and the wipers swung into action giving him a nasty cut on his wrist. No thanks. I'll keep my 15 year old, 80,000 mile camper which is near new condition inside, and the engine of which is less than a third through its design life. I can fix it. At least, I could if it went wrong, but it doesn't. It doesn't have a computer. I don't need to belong to a breakdown organisation thanks.
I have no idea what I would buy if I were conned into getting a new motorhome, but it certainly wouldn't be French or Italian. At least, nothing less than an Iveco anyway. Probably a German. But not a Mercedes.


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## EuropeanCampers (Mar 28, 2008)

slaynt said:


> OK here is the crunch bottom line. We know that new vehicles are all computer controlled. Additionally that some such as Ford have flywheels made of jelly beans which disintegrate quickly.
> What you want and expect from a new vehicle is that it will run reliably and not dump you in Khazackstan with wild pigs and Borat for company, and no mobile phone connectivity. So surely the first most important requirement is reliability. Far more important to me than 'occasionally I will bump my head on a shelf'.
> Recently my daughter had a Fiat which broke down. Cutting a long story short, the Fiat garage wanted £70 to diagnose the fault. If it was the ECU, that would be £450 plus VAT, and no you don't get the £70 diagnosis fee back. The car had done 11,000 miles from new. After a lot of effort we found a company in Nottingham called ECU Testing Ltd and took the ECU there. It was indeed faulty, and there was no charge for that. For £100 they fixed it and gave a TWO year warranty. Suffice to say that this company is the absolute best run organisation I have ever seen, bar none. Outside there was a long queue of garage vans bringing faulty car electronics to them. Inside everyone was busy, there were 4 girls on the phone talking to customers and about 4 people at the back with computers and wires, fixing ECUs, Air Mass samplers and so on. Daughter said she was fed up with this unreliable car and was thinking of getting a Peugeot or Renault, and what did the Boss think of them? The reply , in between guffaws of laughter was 'You already own the least reliable of all vehicles on the road. If you want the second least reliable, get anything French. Get anything Japanese.'
> I don't know if we are allowed to plug businesses here, but if we are, the company is ECU Testing Ltd, 23A Chruch St, Eastwood, Nottingham, NG16 3HP. Tel 01773 535638. email [email protected]
> ...


 :lol:

Blimey, you're a little ray of sunshine.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Sep 15, 2009)

No Dilemma 

Contact the salesman and tell him he's got it wrong. If no Pug then tell him no deal, you want what you've paid for not what he wants to sell you.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

slaynt said:


> and not dump you in Khazackstan with wild pigs and Borat for company, and no mobile phone connectivity. So surely the first most important requirement is reliability. Far more important to me than 'occasionally I will bump my head on a shelf'.


Stone me a real ranter has arrived.

For those of us that don't grace the backwoods of Khazackstan or even the aire at Calais, with or without Borat the shelf thingey can be an important item especially if you brain yourself on it under heavy braking on the M25.

As I'm currently toying with the idea of jacking in me '08 Fiat based van for a '97 Merc based one partially for the very reason SLAYer recounts I'm a bit upset at his criticism.

The thing is for at least a decade the vast majority of motorhomes have been built on Fiat based vans (be they called Peugeot or Citroen as well). As someone who worked for 3 years in vehicle contract hire I know the abysmal opinion most people in the car industry have of Fiat products and of their customer service but motorhome converters keep on preferring them. I still don't understand why as they must bring them more grief than a reliable alternative.

SDA


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

Haven't been on the site for a while, and now remember why! Moan, moan, moan.

From this bloke SLAYNT, he tells me my 2007, and 18000 trouble free miles later is a pile of crap. He then says everything is crap, including Mercs. Nothing but old technology (and therefore environment unfriendly and uneconomical) is any good.

I would agree about cars maybe as we always run Jap cars, currently Lexus, but really I have to say that the Ducato is superb and I'd sooner be driving that than the car.

Peugeot or Fiat? - the original question. Well at 3 litre, its the same vehicle as STANNER keeps trying to tell you. If you have warranty issues, take them up with the dealer who sold it you.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Sep 15, 2009)

Averhamdave 

I think you have missed the point a little bit. The servicing will need to be carried out by the base manufacture from the warranty to hold good (or an approved dealer). The poster has a Peugot one nearby, not a fiat one. If I am also correct And I could be wrong, Fiat do not acknowledge any issues with the 3later but Peugot do. 

Therefore it doesn't matter how many times he complains to the dealer who sold it to him, if fiat wont fix it I'm sure the dealer will not shell out of his pocket. 

Yes he could take the dealer to court but that is aggro that he probably does not need. 

So I will stick to my original advice, tell the dealer he has got it wrong and insist on the Pug.


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

I agree if he's shelling out £50k+ then he's entitled to whatever he asked for. If the Peugeot badge makes him feel better then that's his choice.

Anyone can do the servicing BTW - subject to using OE parts and being a VAT registered garage.

Didn't think there were issues with the 3L gearbox but don't know. My 2.3 is fine just need to drive it accordingly but then I'm not the natrual complaining type, if I were I suppose I could have.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

If it's true that Peugeot are, in general, more amenable to carrying out work on their branded vans than Fiat and the OP has a Peugeot dealer nearby then I'd insist on a Peugeot branded chassis if the option is available. As I recall the OP was asking what the differences were between the options and this I and several other posters have provided.

However the OP needs to be aware of the implications of his decision. 

Does he in fact have an option? I first noticed Autocruise vans appearing with Fiat badging at the Peterboro' show 18 months ago, shortly after the Swift Group takeover. This, we were told, was because there were problems sourcing Pug chassis and as Fiats were more readily available it made sense to keep the line moving. Fair enough as long as you're happy and the dealer tells you.

However if the delays in Pug deliveries still mean that Autocruise have to resort to Fiat base vehicles then what are the delivery implications for someone insisting on a Peugeot?

At the back of my mind I have a sneaking suspicion that Swift Group would be happy to lose Peugeot completely and have the whole Group using Fiat only. The OP needs to be sure that this isn't the case, otherwise he'll have a very, very long wait indeed.

SDA


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## haylingman (May 23, 2008)

*Fiat or Peugeot*

I bought a new Swift Bolero in May this year. Fiat based, its been back to Fiat 4 times already and goes back again this month for the gearbox judder to be sorted out. Another problem is the draught coming through the front doors were the handles are, now we are in winter the side of my right leg gets very cold. Anyone else had this problem?


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