# Winter Camping



## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi All, 
Bought the wagon in June & have been making extensive use of it for the summer. 
What do you do in the colder months, I don't want to park it up for the winter but want to get as much use of it for the year round. 
Using Butane, inside freshwater tank, underslung grey water so I think down to freezing maybe out of the question. 
As apart from last winter temps in the UK are normally quite mild where do you go in the colder season? 
I live in Bedfordshire so I think that the journey to the far north & Scotland is maybe best left till the summer. 
Is there life in winter in England or indeed Wales. 

Barry


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## kandsservices (Sep 5, 2010)

You will need to change to propane if going away in winter as butane will not work properly when it gets cold about -2 c at atmospheric pressure it no longer becomes a gas from its liquified state.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

The first comment is that propane is far better for very cold conditions than butane.

Your waste water tank can be insulated but a good idea is to leave the tap open so that water runs straight into a bucket, which can be emptied regularly.

Many sites, including Caravan Club ones are now open all year, so you can go more or less anywhere.

You say you'll give Scotland a miss, which may be a good idea, as the biggest drawback with winter camping in the far north may well be snow, which will give you very different problems!

I don't know how long you can go away for but if you can manage three or four weeks the south of France or Spain is appealing.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

We have had some lovely weekends in winter,if the weather forecast is good then we nip off to the coast,usually wild camping sometimes using a site that is open all year.

We did some of our christmas shopping in Scarborough and Whitby last year on a lovely sunny weekend,it did get nippy overnight but the blown air heating made it cosy in the van.

You must change over to propane if intending to go out in the van during the winter months.Ours is not fully winterised but we managed ok,we took 3x5litre bottles of water which managed us over the weekend,although we were frugal with the water and were eating out all the time so no washing pots or showers.

A good tv system with a large capacity leisure battery bank is recommended as it is dark very early,also fit some led bulbs as you use the lights more. 

You can have an excellent couple of days in the van during the winter,it takes a little more planning and I always keep an eye on the weather forecast,I wouldn't go in bad really weather.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Hobbyfan said:


> You say you'll give Scotland a miss, which may be a good idea, as the biggest drawback with winter camping in the far north may well be snow, which will give you very different problems!
> 
> .


Oh we struggle along up here you know  seriously it's a shame to give up on Scottish winter motorhoming. The scenery is as superb as you'll ever see when the snows on the tops and really the main roads are kept as clear of ice as southern roads by and large.
Go somewhere like Arachar and you'll be right in amongst the mountains without having to go much above sea level on the roads.


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## patman (Jan 1, 2007)

Bedgellert forest site in Snowdonia is open all year. It's fairly quiet and reasonably cheap too. Good walks and stunning scenery.

Patman


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## trevor007 (Apr 20, 2008)

In our last van which was very similar to yours we stayed in it as low as minus 6 without problem definitely need propane though. 

The biggest problem was when driving in cold weather you feel every cold draft so i put a winter cover on fridge checked for all the little holes and blocked them up, then i would light the fire an hour before we left home to warm the van. 

I found the cotswolds nicer in winter than summer as you can get around without so many people and lots of nice pubs with real fires

Trev


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

During the colder months we tend to go away for a couple of days at a time to or near towns or cities where you can visit galleries, cathedrals, shops etc, or do countryside walks if the weather's OK. This has included York, Durham, Southport and Burr's Country Park at Bury. Next on the list is Chester.

As our van is not particularly well protected from cold we tend to use sites with full facilities (showers and washing up) and don't always bother to put water in the tank. We fill a plastic water carrier or bottles for drinking and cooking and we use a 500w oil filled radiator which we keep on all night. It can be very cosy.


Chris


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## Caggsie (Aug 19, 2008)

Nothing nicer than a crisp, sunny frosty morning. As said previously, get the red bottles. Many years ago in my mums caravan over a Christmas period, we had need to stay in the van over night. Blue bottle, heating went on,it was so cold it stopped working and we were frozen. We had duvet, sleeping bags, and by the end of the night fully clothed. Not nice.

The only time we wouldn't go is when snow is on the ground, more to do with driving in it than being on site in it.

Regards

Karen


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

trevor007 said:


> The biggest problem was when driving in cold weather you feel every cold draft so i put a winter cover on fridge checked for all the little holes and blocked them up, then i would light the fire an hour before we left home to warm the van.
> Trev


This is a very good point which I forgot to mention. In case you're unsure of Trev007's meaning, a fridge cover is as the enclosed pictures. They stop the massive draughts that can blow in from the open exterior fridge vents in the motor-home's body.

I put mine on as soon as October comes!

http://tinyurl.com/3y8qge5


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

With the luxuries that are in most vans these days theres absolutely no reason to give up in the winter. We spent christmas on my mates pub car park in the deep norfolk coutryside surrounded by thatched cottages and fields. Even if its snowing it doesnt stop us as the van is on electric and warm inside so water doesnt freeze etc. 

a lot of club sites are open all year and have hardstandings and are near towns so you dont have to move the van. We are off to France and belgion in mid nov. and in fact have just as many holidays through the winter as we don summer and love it.

So dont up the motorhome over the winter months just take the precautions of using propane, not leaving water tanks full when the vans not used and making sure its winter checked etc and thats it.

Phill


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

We lived in our motorhome fulltime for a couple of years. Now winter is approaching we are considering moving back into it. Cheaper bills and much warmer   

stew


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

If you can get on a hook up you're absolutely fine. The problem if wild camping is battery conservation in the cold as capacity is reduced. The effect is you need to watch your power consumption. The problem here is you tend not to us the fan on your heating and as a result your van has heating layers ranging from mindblowingly hot on the ceiling to freezing cold at floor level.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Tenting*

Hello,

In winter we have been to lots of places. From Southern Spain (+20c Christmas Day) to the Arctic Circle (-23c December 2007). But before you start thinking you can't do that.....

We were in Scotland one yeear, snowed in as A9 was closed and our neighbours on the Campsite in Aviemore were in tents!.

My Advice, M+S or Winter tyres.

Happy & Safe All Season Travels.

TM


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Tenting*



teemyob said:


> Hello,
> 
> We were in Scotland one yeear, snowed in as A9 was closed and our neighbours on the Campsite in Aviemore were in tents!.
> 
> ...


Nice one TM scare em all away leave more site room for us  
As a seasoned Scottish and English motorhomer I've found that (leaving last winter aside) there just isn't enough low level snow to warrant a change of tyres. Certainly if you pick your route to suite the weather. There's loads of places where it's easy to travel in the average Scottish winter. Just if it snows leave out the A9 over Drumochter, Glencoe etc.


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## rolla (Aug 14, 2010)

The fridge covers are they a standard size to fit all ?


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

rolla said:


> The fridge covers are they a standard size to fit all ?


There are a couple of different ones but if you measure the apertures you will be able to work out which you need.


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## rolla (Aug 14, 2010)

hobbyfan thanks for the info, i was thinking of blocking the vents while travelling but i guess you can keep these on when on electric?


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

rolla said:


> hobbyfan thanks for the info, i was thinking of blocking the vents while travelling but i guess you can keep these on when on electric?


Yes, you can keep them on permanently. They don't block the vents totally but still allow some ingress and egress of air.

In winter fridges don't need to work as hard, whereas on a blazing hot day in Spain for instance you can improve your fridge's performance by taking out the ordinary vents completely.

The winter vents are very easy to fit. You leave the existing covers on and they clip in and are locked using a small coin or a large screwdriver. It's a two-minute job.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

rolla said:


> The fridge covers are they a standard size to fit all ?


As I understand it drafts should not be able to get from the outside into your van via the fridge vents. The idea is that the vents act as a flue for the gas flame ensuring that no exhaust fumes enter the van. The area behind the vents should, in effect, be outside the van. I would suggest that if you are getting drafts enter that way then you should have the unit properly checked and sealed.

The covers that you are asking about are normally only used in the extreme cold to stop the fridge from over-cooling when on electric.

M


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments. 
When I bought the van it was minus a gas bottle but equipped with a clip on regulator for Calor, it was only after buying a bottle that I read up on the benefits of propane in the cooler weather so I will look to change that. 
South of France is appealing but unfortunately we are unable to get away for extended breaks at the moment so it is mainly long weekends hence not wanting to head too far north (too much time in the driving seat, I can drive till the cows come home but the other half gets bored) 
In the past I have worked extensively in Scotland, and it is a nice place even in winter, they do seem to clear the roads of snow better than the south. 
The fridge vent covers sound useful but do they affect the working of the fridge, ours is 3-way so as we have always been on hook up we have run it on 240v (apart from the Lincoln show when I used gas for 2 days). 

Barry


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

cronkle said:


> As I understand it drafts should not be able to get from the outside into your van via the fridge vents.
> M


Unfortunately though, they do! There was a howling gale around my fridge and the vents stopped most of it. I'ved used them for four winters and they've been a great help.

http://www.caravan-advice.co.uk/caravan-fridges.html


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## Caggsie (Aug 19, 2008)

With regards the btl, we changed blues for reds and 6 kgs for 13, so don't go paying deposits on a new one before asking if they will do this for you, if they don't go elsewhere.

Karen


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Matchlock said:


> The fridge vent covers sound useful but do they affect the working of the fridge, ours is 3-way so as we have always been on hook up we have run it on 240v (apart from the Lincoln show when I used gas for 2 days). Barry


Not in my experience. As I said earlier, the warmer it is, the more air you need to allow in. In winter the covers still allow sufficient air but exclude many of the draughts that non-winterised 'vans are subject to.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Hobbyfan said:


> cronkle said:
> 
> 
> > As I understand it drafts should not be able to get from the outside into your van via the fridge vents.
> ...


Personally I would get that checked/fixed as there is the chance that fumes are entering the van when the fridge is on gas.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

trevor007 said:


> I found the cotswolds nicer in winter than summer as you can get around without so many people and lots of nice pubs with real fires
> 
> Trev


I'll second that. We also live in Bedfordshire and always have a few days at the CC's Moreton in Marsh site before Christmas. As someone has already pointed out, city breaks are a good bet in the winter. There is always something to do no matter what the weather. Try Cambridge the CC's Cherry Hinton site, easy walk to the bus stop for central Cambridge and again not too far to go.

peedee


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Tenting*



clodhopper2006 said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...


So you think we have had enough Sun to Warrant Summer tyres then! ?. And do you think there will be enough of that Sun in the Autumn and Winter?.

TM


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Tenting*



teemyob said:


> So you think we have had enough Sun to Warrant Summer tyres then! ?. And do you think there will be enough of that Sun in the Autumn and Winter?.
> 
> TM


eeerm, no I think I just said in my experience touring Scotland and England I've never felt the need to have different tyres for different seasons. Not sure really what you're trying to say here, what's your point about sun???


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Tenting*



clodhopper2006 said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > So you think we have had enough Sun to Warrant Summer tyres then! ?. And do you think there will be enough of that Sun in the Autumn and Winter?.
> ...


Hello,

My point was that you mentioned snow (not me).

And you I assume drive on summer tyres?

I suggested all season or winter tyres to the original poster.

You then came along suggesting that all-season tyres or winter tyres were not really a requirement.

TM


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

All replies are good when you come to a stop over and settle down, the problem we had even though the cab heater is very good when traveling it was warming the whole van as well as the cab.

We had a pair of curtains made full length floor to cab top that drew at the back of the driver and passenger seat when we are traveling isolating the cab from the rest of the unit, this soon warms up nicely and is like toast. When we are about an hour away from our destination we open the curtains to let the warm air from the cab circulate through the whole van which gives the fire a chance to catch up when we stop.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Tenting*



teemyob said:


> [Hello,
> 
> My point was that you mentioned snow (not me).
> 
> ...


Your advice was M+S or Winter tyres which of course you are entitled to that opinion. As you say I stated they were not really a requirement which is my opinion and I am equally entitled to that opinion.
Cheers TM


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is, in my opinion, the need for an insulating outer windscreen cover, such as Silverscreens or Taylor Made.

They make a huge difference and also stop you waking up to cab windscreens that are dripping with condensation.

http://www.silverscreens.co.uk/

http://www.taylormade-window-covers.co.uk/


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

I know external screen covers are said to be best but when we were new to all this a couple of years ago we couldn't find anyone that supplied them for our base vehicle. We eventually, with help from MHF, found a supplier of internal covers and we manage very well with them, plus pulling round the curtains provided with the van. We don't suffer from condensation.

For us this has some advantages. Putting them up and taking them down is one less outside job to do when setting up and leaving. Also, they remain clean and dry and can be stored easily in our overcab area. We don't have a garage to store bulky, possibly wet things. 

I'm not knocking external screens, as we've never tried them, just saying that the internal ones suit us.


Chris


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Tenting*



clodhopper2006 said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> > [Hello,
> ...


Not a problem Clodhopper.

So what I am recommending is that All Season M+S Tyres or even Winter may be more suitable for motorhome use in winter. Indeed all year.

Because summer tyres that many people use all year can be nothing short of useless come wet grass, ice, mud and even Snow. Particularly for those who are not too surefooted in wintery driving conditions.

TM


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

*Re: Tenting*



teemyob said:


> clodhopper2006 said:
> 
> 
> > teemyob said:
> ...


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

And seen as though this thread is about winter camping, then its obvious which tyres you need.

Paul.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

coppo said:


> And seen as though this thread is about winter camping, then its obvious which tyres you need. Paul.


Ah, but the question is, do you actually 'need' them? If you're going to the Alps then yes, but as clodhopper says, you can go to Scotland even and not need winter tyres as the roads are always cleared.

I'd certainly use winter tyres if I intended spending time in an area where there's going to be snow on the roads, but not otherwise, and we go off every winter. But of course we avoid the snow-bound regions!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Point*

That is my Point that I am trying to get in.........

Think about our climate in the UK. Especially Scotland and Wales!.

Then think about the summer we have had this year and in the past!

Winter tyres come into their best use between +11 and +8c.

So why do so many people (usually the ones who claim we do not need winter or all-season tyres).
Suggest that running all year on summer tyres is fine?

Does not make any sense to me :?

So I recommend that All-Season tyres are best, especially for Autumn/Spring and Winter in The UK.

Yet so many disagree and suggest that Summer Tyres are best for use all year.

Have a Look here - This is London

All-Season and winter tyres are not "Snow Tyres". They are often referred to as "Cold Weather tyres".

Looking at the chart. If you live in London. The only months you could be better off with Summer tyres are June, July and August.

So why waste you money on fancy summer tyres that you might only use for a few weeks of the year?.

TM


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Re: Tenting*



teemyob said:


> Not a problem Clodhopper.
> 
> So what I am recommending is that All Season M+S Tyres or even Winter may be more suitable for motorhome use in winter. Indeed all year.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree the ones you get with the van are pretty rubbish. I don't know if I could justify just buying new ones though. I just tend to look for hard standings in winter. Maybe when I come to renew my tyres I will put M+S tyrs on. So certainly if you can afford to replace your tyres then obviously thats the way to go
I wouldn't want people to think they cant come to Scotland in winter with factory fitted tyres though.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Question about summer/Winter tyres. 
I am about to replace my front tyres (FWD) loads of tread but they are original, 10 years old and are showing some cracking on the side walls. 
What is the disadvantage of using winter tyres in summer considering I don't see wear as a problem due to the relatively low mileage of Motor Homes 
Do they contribute to extra road noise? in my case the van is very noisy to drive but I just turn up the sound deadening system (radio) 

Barry


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## trevor007 (Apr 20, 2008)

Thank you Hobbyfan for explaining the vent's for me. 

I found with my Lunar i also had to seal around the back of fridge and over the wheel arches to stop the draft coming into the habitation area. 

I would suggest before fitting winter covers you remove the existing grill and look at the back off fridge and surrounding cabinet for gap's because it does make a huge difference driving when it's cold weather. 

as for the covers i put mine on now and take them off in April when it warms up, they are designed to work when fitted on gas, electric and 12v without detriment to your fridge. 

Trev


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

For anyone considering buying winter fridge vents:

BUY A CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR AT THE SAME TIME

Try taking your van out on a cold and windy day and see if you feel a draught. If you do, you could have a potential problem when vents are fitted. A lot of vans have poorly fitted insulation around the fridge and it is not easy to get at to rectify.

Hi Matchlock,

We did the West coast of Scotland in early March this year. Everywhere else was thick of snow except there. Absolutely brilliant, hardly saw another van when north of Fort William. Wildcamped wherever we wanted (not like in the Summer). Go for it.

As for winter tyres, I would not bother. You have a self contained motorhome. If the roads look that bad, stay where you are until they improve. Spend the winter tyre money on solar panel and LED lights.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Matchlock said:


> Question about summer/Winter tyres.
> I am about to replace my front tyres (FWD) loads of tread but they are original, 10 years old and are showing some cracking on the side walls.
> What is the disadvantage of using winter tyres in summer considering I don't see wear as a problem due to the relatively low mileage of Motor Homes
> Do they contribute to extra road noise? in my case the van is very noisy to drive but I just turn up the sound deadening system (radio)
> ...


They do increase noise . Think army landrover, the tyres hum quite a bit. I imagine they are also detrimental to mpg.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

clodhopper2006 said:


> If you can get on a hook up you're absolutely fine. The problem if wild camping is battery conservation in the cold as capacity is reduced. The effect is you need to watch your power consumption. The problem here is you tend not to us the fan on your heating and as a result your van has heating layers ranging from mindblowingly hot on the ceiling to freezing cold at floor level.


Fan, fan, sheer luxury, the only fan I have is the wife & that sometimes cannot be guaranteed, only got convection but as it is a small van it warms up quite quickly. 
As we are new to motorhoming we will stick to hook up for now.

Barry


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

We loved our winter tour (Dec and Jan) last year although it got a bit challenging when all that snow hit. We wild camped on a beach in Devon when it was -12 but we were sat in the van in T shirts. The gas fire is very good. The big challenge we found in Jan was getting water. Many garages and CL's were frozen up. We always found a way though.

On the plus side with it being so cold all the grass was frozen solid although we still had to be pulled out of the snow in Cornwall and we finally got snowed in for 5 days in a CL field in Stratford upon Avon, just made it more fun.

I have been to the lower western Isles over Christmas a few times and it can even be quite mild with hardly any snow.

When we go full timing I thinking of spending the winter in France where I know it will be cold but I would rather have the challenge of that and the place to myself than head off to Spain with the rest.


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## daithomas123 (Dec 25, 2007)

*winter*

Hi Barry
We've have our hymer motor home for five years now and we have been away every winter with out a thought for the cold weather.
Been to France, Spain and Andora it has been great what with waking up to find that it had snowed during the night.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Tyres*



Matchlock said:


> Question about summer/Winter tyres.
> I am about to replace my front tyres (FWD) loads of tread but they are original, 10 years old and are showing some cracking on the side walls.
> What is the disadvantage of using winter tyres in summer considering I don't see wear as a problem due to the relatively low mileage of Motor Homes
> Do they contribute to extra road noise? in my case the van is very noisy to drive but I just turn up the sound deadening system (radio)
> ...


They can be noisy, though I doubt you would notice in a motorhome.

I had some All-Season Cargo Vector M+S tyres in a VW T5 Transporter. They the least grip of any other tyre I had experienced. In addition they gave off a very loud whining noise when driving over 50mph or cornering.

I then replaced them with Nokian WR winters that were super quiet, tremendous grip but wore out in less than 12,000 miles.

I now run a van on Winter Yokohama Geolander I/T's. They are quiet, very grippy and use no extra fuel over the Michelin that were originally fitted.

It is a case of doing some research. www.tyretest.com is a good place to start.

When you think of Winter or M+S All-Season. Don't get confused with A/T tyres (All Terrain).


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Could l throw in a Q should pipes be insulated and should the tanks always be emptied and not used in winter even if we keep a heater on when the van is parked up. 

It is just Brian used the rapido, in fact all our other m/h over the years all the time through the year and filled his water tanks as normal l don't think he ever emptied anything but the heater was always on when parked up just at a very low level to keep the internal chill off. 

I have emptied the boiler, tanks and taps as best l can but CB is parked on a big slope. I will get him out on the weekend to a flat part to drain but am hoping it will be ok for now. I have a heater (de longi) happily pumping out heat at the moment inside him. 
Only did the above after reading all the advice here or l would have left him full.


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## trevor007 (Apr 20, 2008)

I personally only drain all or as much water as possible from the van in the really coldest weather, but we are lucky in the south as regards to how cold it gets. 

I also leave the van heating on low because no mater how hard you try with water you will never drain down completely. 

when going away in freezing weather i leave my heating on constant and as yet never had a problem with my last van (virtually no insulation) and current one that is very good in freezing weather. 

Trev


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Barry[/quote]

They do increase noise . Think army landrover, the tyres hum quite a bit. I imagine they are also detrimental to mpg.[/quote]

I was thinking the same all trough this thread on the subject of winter tyres.......the noise from them would be terrible!
Gary


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