# Batteries again!!!!



## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

We are thinking next year of going to some short Rallies and note that at some or most electric hook ups are unavailable.

We do not really have space for a generator or want the noise etc. and solar panels would appear expensive for the time we really want to use them and I suspect they would generate wind noise and drag when travelling. So I thought an extra battery connected in parallel with the exisiting one would be ideal.

The battery seemed a good idea until I read some of the threads on here which seem to be at odds with my beliefs of certain things connected with chargers and batteries, so I need some enlightening.

1. I have read that relay/split charging devices shared with the vehicle battery is in fact only like a trickle charger. For forty years I believed it charged the battery fully either at the same time as the vehicle battery or after it was fully charged.

2. The charger in my caravan although it shows 13v on its green led bar never charges the battery completely. Is this true or false!

My simple solution of just connecting a second battery and expecting it to get charged by the vehicle and MH battery seems unlikely.

If anyone can put me right in simple terms I would appreciate it, before I go and buy a second battery!

Many thanks,

John


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi John

The alternator puts out around 13.8 to 14.2 Volts this is generally not enough to fully charge a standard lead acid battery, if you drove lands end to John O'Groats and back it will not fully charge the battery.

The bottom of this page will tell you why http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/books/motorhome_electrics_caravans_too.htm

Green LED bars are very rarely accurate, If you check the battery with a proper meter 24 hours after any use (either charge or discharge) then you will see a true voltage reading.

Before you go out and spend loads, what is your amp hour usage ?

It maybe that 2 batteries is all you need, especially if you can charge via hook up at home before trips. especially if you disconnect the split charge relay, which earlier this year I proved actually loses you power from a fully charged battery, I was going to link to the thread but it ran to 15 pages and had 2 people with Degrees attempting to prove me wrong.

The experiment basically ran like this I Fully charged a leisure battery using a good quality 4 stage charger then discharged under a known load

I then recharged the battery but this time connected it to my van and drove around for an hour.

The discharge was more rapid even after an Hours "extra charging" via a relay. I repeated this a few times always the same result.

Some other people went away to prove me wrong they have not returned yet..........

That was in May so I think they have given up ........

George

PS what do you need to run ?


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## crissy (May 15, 2005)

Hi John,
We go on short rallies but manage with just one battery (110 amps). Obviously it depends on what you wish to run - we just have lights (which we try to be careful with but do read quite a bit so we use the spotlights), TV occasionally, pump and I suppose that's about it. Not had a problem so far (touch wood).
We'll keep an eye open for your MHF sticker :?:  
Chris


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

jabber said:


> My simple solution of just connecting a second battery and expecting it to get charged by the vehicle and MH battery seems unlikely.
> 
> If anyone can put me right in simple terms I would appreciate it, before I go and buy a second battery!
> 
> ...


John,
if it helps any I went down your simple route by adding a second 85APH battery but I do not rely on the alternator to keep it charged. I can generally manage between 2 to 4 days after which I seek out a hook up to recharge. You can top it up a bit by driving around but you have to be on the road a very long time to make any difference.

peedee


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> The experiment basically ran like this I Fully charged a leisure battery using a good quality 4 stage charger then discharged under a known load
> 
> I then recharged the battery but this time connected it to my van and drove around for an hour.
> 
> The discharge was more rapid even after an Hours "extra charging" via a relay. I repeated this a few times always the same result.


Hi George

This is in line with my experience too, not tested as you have but just observed.

We have the same vehicle as Jabber so it will be relevant to him too ( Hi John).

When we first started using our van I was worried that one 85amp Leisure battery would struggle to supply our needs.
As a vintage car owner I have for years used an "Accumate" intelligent charger/conditioner to keep the stored batteries of my cars in good condition.
I realised that the charger/powersupply zig unit in the van or the alternator would not fully charge the battery so I started using the Accumate when we were at home. This way we always left for a trip with a fully charged leisure battery.....but having driven to our destination I sort of had a feeling that the leisure battery was now not as "fully" charged as it was before we left. I have no way of knowing, it was just a feeling, even with a digital meter I could not be too sure. Anyway what I do now is use the Accumate to fully charge both the leisure and the vehicle battery before we leave on a trip. I think it has, but I am not *sure *if it has, solved the problem but this "full" charge is better for the vehicle battery anyway. The van does stand idle for days at a time so the battery should last longer than if left just charged by the alternator.

We now find that the one 85 amp leisure battery, in the summer, will last us easily for 3 and maybe 4 days on a site with no hook up or driving. We are careful not to use too many lights etc. If we are going away for more than a couple of days: for the television and laptop I carry an extra smaller 60 amp battery (drops in behind the drivers seat John) which gets a full charge before we leave and if it goes flat I then use the vehicle battery via a battery protection circuit that stops me flattening it past the point where it will not start the engine. These can be bought from Maplin for the princely sum of £4.99.

I know that the way I have solved our power requirements would not suit everyone, Our normal trip is 2,3 or 4 days and the Executive is a relatively small motorhome so we do have to be sensible in the amount we can carry so a generator or 2 larger leisure batteries is not really needed or an option.

Mike


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Just my experience. I now have two 110aH batts but used to have just one. Most of my time is spent wildcamping. After 2 nights max we move- driving 30 mins to an hour at a time but when when static we use a folding solar panel (14w) from ebay which cost us £85, in the window. We have never run out of juice yet and this set up should be fine for your (low) useage needs. Food for thought anyway.

Andy


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi AndySam

Being exceptionally generous the Solar panel will be giving you 3.5 ah a day back 

Standard alternator will give 10 ah for an hours drive (I know thats way to generous)

so thats 17 ah divided by 2 days lets say 8.5 ah per day

Thats 8.5 ah for a whole day (generally less as I have allowed full hour driving and 6 sun hours a day which would be OTT for Australia)

Andy what do you run in the van? thats extremely low usage.

BTW with those recharge rates it would run better with a single 110 ah battery.


George


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

George,

I am also a low power user. Lights, pump, 2-4 hours of LCD Tv and DVD a night and that's it. I don't profess to know or even care about consumption/useage figures, but I do know that for 1 1/2 years this set up has served me well!

PS If you remember the saga a few days ago with the veh batt- found the answer...it was knackered. A new batt and the Van Bitz gizmo later and everything is hunky dory!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Andy

Something doesnt add up, it "looks" like you use more power than you put into the batteries. Are you saving up for a few weeks before each trip? Do you leave the solar on at all times when not using the van ?

The only thing I can think thats happening is that the batteries are acting like a piggy bank and you have accidently managed to achieve a balanced system a rare beast indeed congrats.

George


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

George,

I think my "secret" is that when we go away we drive for 3-4 hours to get there and we tend to use the van mid week as a second vehicle. I can only presume this charges the batts enough for the job.


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Thanks for all your help friends, it is most useful. 

That URL for the Aussie book was interesting, George, Did you get over here?

That certainly seems a good solution Mike, I have been looking at the Accumate chargers for some time, maybe the looking has to stop. 

Incidentally I need your advice on th downloading from my Yahoo account, managed to get an album there, but cannot find the name of the URL or how to put photos it in a posting.

john 8)


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

jabber said:


> That certainly seems a good solution Mike, I have been looking at the Accumate chargers for some time, maybe the looking has to stop.
> 
> Incidentally I need your advice on th downloading from my Yahoo account, managed to get an album there, but cannot find the name of the URL or how to put photos it in a posting.
> 
> john 8)


Hi John

The Accumate does do its job well and will charge and maintain a 12 volt lead acid battery but I have found another portable charger which is now on my Christmas list!. It is the Ctek charger, it is capable of a much faster charge but will also maintain the battery. I think this would be more suitable for my purposes in the motorhome and would give a quicker recharge on a one night hookup when on a longer trip, have a look at the web site below for details:
http://www.hamiltonclassic.co.uk/ProductInformation/BatteryCareCTEK.htm

The Accumate is only rated to charge batteries up to 75 amp/H see:
http://www.accumate.co.uk/
but I have regularily used it on my leisure and vehicle battery.

To get a photo into a post from your Yahoo photo album
instructions removed!!!!
Hi, I have to admit here that the instructions I posted earlier do not work all the time..Yahoo does not always allow the pictures to be fetched

Mike


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



GeorgeTelford said:


> Standard alternator will give 10 ah for an hours drive (I know thats way to generous)


Again a slight disagreement from my side:

The charge the alternator can deliver in an hour's drive varies significantly with the charge status of the leisure battery: It will bring hefty charges when the battery is almost flat, but it will under almost no circumstances charge it above about 85% of the nominal capacity. Reason is that in most vans the standard alternator regulator from the base vehicle is used, which is just too "stupid" to care for a leisure battery. It takes care that the _starter battery_ is fully charged, which usually goes much faster than the leisure battery.

The leisure battery needs (if it is a lead-acid type) to be charged with a voltage that rises up to 14.4 volts for a certain period of time. Good mains chargers (having a so-called IU0U-curve) can provide that, but not the standard alternator regulator.

There are special alternator regulators on the market which compensate for that, but they are very expensive and almost never fitted by motorhome manufacturers. And, if one uses one of them, the starter battery must be protected against overcharging.

So what happens when you go wild camping for a longer period without mains charge is that your leisure battery will be charged up to 80-85 % relatively quickly, but then remain on that level.

We have a 105 Ah battery and frequently go on longer tours without any mains charge. So far we never had any problem, but we don't consume to much "juice" (no telly, fridge on gas, economic Truma heating system) and we usually don't stay for more than two nights without driving. Except if we are on a site with mains hookup. And when we drive, we do it for at least two hours or so.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gerhard

65 -75% is what the experts think in regards to Alternators Charging batteries. If you check what they do if you are only dealing with the starter battery after start up the ampage rises quite sharply and falls just as rapidly.

With a leisure battery in circuit its very similar, however the ampage does stay up for a little longer. 

I was being overgenerous I know, but one could only assume that if this system worked then it was a low comsumption system.

I know what the best gear is, for alternator a smart regulator this turns the alternator into a real 4 stage charger.

For mains charging a Four Stage Mains Charger, sized to charge the bank fully in the optimum time.

ie if you are planning on using a genny (virtually always to avoid campsites) to recharge the batteries and had say a 440 ah battery bank the optimum size will be 88 amp battery charger this is the C20 Rate and is usually the reccomended max charge rate in reality you would get a 100 A charger.

My bank is 1100 ah but my charger is only 30A this was sized based on the fact that I would spend at least one day a week on a campsite in under 24 hours hook up it will recharge the system fully.

The thing is for really low consumption campers my system is overkill.

I am not keen on reccomending a set system because the actual consumption and camping style varies so greatly between different people, so the system that is best for each is going to be different.

George


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Snipped:
> My bank is 1100 ah
> 
> The thing is for really low consumption campers my system is overkill.
> ...


Hi George
Having seen the pictures of it, I realise that just to get your battery bank into my van I would have to leave the Wife and Dog at home :lol:

Mike


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

On our previous 'van, we had a 100a/hr leisure battery that was located under the vehicle and exposed to the elements. We used it a lot in alpine conditions, usually stopping for two nights maximum before moving to another area. We are low to average power users and only occasionally have the lights on and the occasional flush of the loo! but do run the truma blower overnight to keep the van warm. Under these conditions last year we never had a problem running out of power over a 2 week holiday in the snow and only once hooked up to mains about 1/2 way through.

Our new van is fitted with a two 85 a/hr batteries in tandem as jabber was considering. (fitted by autosleepers), both inside the vehicle, so in a less arduous location than my old van. This theoretically gives me 170a/hr at my disposal (or about 120a/hr @75%) so I am hoping that this set up should be ok for my pending 3 weeks in the snow in January….Does anyone see me having any problems? ... George?

Pete.


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

From a standard charger ie the alternator or motorhome charger, you will not charge to more than 85% capacity as the voltage given off by the chargers is adequate but insufficient for a full charge. If the batts are standard ones then you should not discharge them more than 50% capacity. Now 120 aH is a dim and distant memory :!: More like 70 aH 8O


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Jabber

I bought all four of his books, at one point was very interested in having a solar system (2 of the books mainly deal with solar for caravans and motorhomes)

The motorhome electrics and the campervan and Motorhome book are 2 very good books. I also like the Travel Vans Book by John Speed.

Hi Peejay

To help the batteries last its never a good idea to discharge by more than 50% as menetioned by Andy so you have 85 ah available really from fully charged. 

But if your usage is the same as before, your batteries are warmer being indoors, ergo they will last longer anyway, Plus you have a greater capacity to start, I would say you wont have any problems.

George


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Thanks george, appreciated.

pete.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



GeorgeTelford said:


> My bank is 1100 ah...


 8O 8O 8O

My situation is slightly different, having only about one tenth of this capacity. When we bought the van we decided not to go over the 3.5 tons max. gross weight limit. We did not need that because of our driving licenses (they are "old" German licenses allowing up to 7.5 tons), but this way we avoided a lot of limitations like HGV speed limits etc. So a battery bank like George has is by far off-limits for us.

We have the option to fit a second 105 Ah battery right besides the existing one. Maybe I will once make use of this option, but then I would also want to replace the mains charger (currently 15 Amps) by a larger one.

Fortunately my battery resides in the tempered double floor, so no capacity losses due to low temperatures.

What we normally do in winter is:

In general I leave it on permanent mains hookup when not in use at low temperatures.

About 12 to 24 hours before "take-off" we start pre-heating the van (and pre-cooling the fridge) while it is on mains hookup on our drive. Then just before start we just fill in water and off we go. So we are always starting with van being nicely warmed, fridge cool, and all supplies incl. battery topped up to 100%.

As mentioned previously we run on quite low consumption, so we have no problems staying for 2 nights on one spot without hookup and then recharging only from the alternator.

Of course, _if there is hookup available_ we make use of it. But we do not select our sites for hookup availability.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gerhard 

At what level do HGV speed limits Kick in in Germany? 

Over here a motorhome is only an HGV if based on Artic (and I am Not sure that is either !)

Anyway we can spend up to 5 days without hookup and dont want to be running gennies all the while.

Like you all systems will be primed before leaving on a long journey would only had a small amount of water, probably better on fuel econonmy to get the water on or near arrival.

But the difference is we want to be able to use anything night or day for at least 5 days and without the need for the genny to be fired up.

George


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> At what level do HGV speed limits Kick in in Germany?


HGV Speed limits (and some other limits like certain bans on overtaking) kick in for *all motor vehicles* at a max. allowed gross weight of over 3.5 tons. No matter the purpose or the actual weight of the vehicle.

Only exception is: Vehicles legally classified as "Passenger Cars". But motorhomes in Germany are a class of their own, so they do not fall under this exception.



GeorgeTelford said:


> Like you all systems will be primed before leaving on a long journey would only had a small amount of water, probably better on fuel econonmy to get the water on or near arrival.


In fact we also fill in only a small amount of water _if we know that we get water on arrival._ But, as our motorhoming habits are quite spontaneous, we normally do not know where "arrival" will be when we depart. So we better top up. I did calculate that once, and compared to aerodynamics and driving habits the effect of an additional 100 kgs on fuel economy is marginal. At least in flat country, and remember, I live in The Netherlands... :wink:

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

George,

Whilst not a true HGV, vehicles over 3050 kg unladen are subject to HGV speeds.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Andy

Have a read of this, it will clarify a few points (also relevent to the "Motor caravan regardless of weight is NOT a GOODS VEHICLE Debate")

devon-cornwall.police interpretation of the Section 86 (1) and Schedule 6 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984

I am not going into the placement of Motor Caravan, but you can clearly see that a motor caravan is in no way restricted to HGV speeds

George


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Read it, it appears wrong according to the highway code. Note it states also a 7.5 tonne lorry can drive at 70mph on a motorway! No doubt thouusands of convicted lorry drivers may be interested in that if it were true!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Heh Andy

What you are completely missing is that the laws an ass

1. Certain Lorries can be convicted for driving at over 56 MPH because of construction and use they are fitted with a Governer Follow one on a motorway your speedo will show 62 Mph (thats a real 56) your Tacho is more accurate in 5th gear it will show 2800 rpm (as long as you have not changed the wheels and tires from original spec)

2. Although legaly they can do 60 MPH by doing 56 they are speeding.

Goods vehicles exceeding 7.5 Tonnes 40 50 60

The trouble is that most people cant be bothered to read the law. I do !

Goods vehicles over 7.4 Tonnes are not allowed in the third lane, Huge motorhomes are.

Goods vehicles over 3050 KG? need a Tachograph, if a motorhome is a goods vehicle why doesnt it need one? Its not in the Excepted vehicles List because its not a Goods vehicle

Goods vehicles over 7.5 Tonnes cannot do 70 even if not Artic Yet motorhomes can (as long as less than 12 Metres)

George


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

All that and forgot, Re the Highway code

its OK to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 Tonnes (as long as not an Artic) at 70 MPH 

Not sure were you have got your info from regarding speeds in highway code.

George


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



GeorgeTelford said:


> Goods vehicles over 7.4 Tonnes are not allowed in the third lane, Huge motorhomes are.
> 
> Goods vehicles over 3050 KG? need a Tachograph, if a motorhome is a goods vehicle why doesnt it need one? Its not in the Excepted vehicles List because its not a Goods vehicle
> 
> ...


Seems that the UK gouvernment has quite a backlog in transforming EU directives into national law. But they are not the only ones...

Anyway I would not recommend to start a discussion with a German "Verkehrspolizist" after he has caught you with your 4.5 tons van at 120 kph on the third lane... (...which is hopefully the most left one...:wink: ). Not to speak about Austria. 8O

But maybe the German-speaking countries are exceptional here. Well, we are notorious for law-abidingness...

Nevertheless, there is no exception without an exception. For example the sign








means:
- in Germany: "Forbidden for *motor vehicles* with max. allowed mass of more than 3.5 tons."
- in Austria: "Forbidden for *lorries* with max. allowed mass of more than 3.5 tons."

So with your more-than-3.5-tons-motorhome in Germany you have to obey these signs, while you can safely ignore them in Austria... 

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

I wonder if this is what I should expect.

I turned off the onboard charger and left the battery for at least 24 hrs and then checked it with two meters and the voltage was 12.95v. The temperature in the van was 5C.

I checked after ordering a CTEK 3600, am I wasting my money?

Seems like the onboard charger is doing a good job!

I would appreciate your wisdom and comments please.

John :roll:


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Jabber

That (12.95 after 24 hrs rest) equates to fully charged Battery.

You checked with 2 meters !

All that leaves me wondering have you had the onboard charger running for weeks ? really need to know this.

If you can leave the onboard charger running for 2-4 weeks it does a fair job of charging.

Wasted your money no I dont think so, say you have a single 110 ah battery that has been drained to 55 ah, the Ctek will recharge it within a day and then maintain it at peak. the "Zig" will take weeks to get it back up, if the battery is ever left discharged for even a couple of days the Zig will never break down the sulphation and the battery will never recover its full charge.

So for on site you have the "zig" or whichever and for proper charging you have the Ctek.

I would have bought a Sterling because this will do the rapid Charging AND is also a pucker power supply when on site.

George

PS for the Highway code I now keep a Link to an online copy on My webpage under legal stuff here!


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

Andysam is correct in his quoting the speed limits, I saw these published a while ago, and thought it was an error - did some checking and found it to be correct.

If you believe otherwise George you can always put it to the test !!!!


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> SNIPPED from George's post:
> Hi Jabber
> Wasted your money no I dont think so,
> So for on site you have the "zig" or whichever and for proper charging you have the Ctek.


George beat me to it with his reply. Also you will now have the avantage of having a portable , weatherproof charger that can be used to maintain any battery you wish to connect it to, so no more flat car batteries on a cold winter morning.

When you are away and go on a hook up you can first let it deal with the leisure battery/batteries and then swap it to the vehicle battery.

With my Autosleeper Executive I have, like you, made several improvements but none of them have changed the overall specification of the vehicle from its "as delivered" condition. I was advised by several folks in the trade that for re-sale, the saleability/value will be affected if it is not "standard", prospective buyers like a seconhand prodution van to be "as it is in the brochure"! I know it is daft but I am sure that it makes sense. The Ctek charger is a good example ,you will now have a proper charger without altering the standard set up and if you do change vans it can go into the next one.

George is right in suggesting that the Zig unit would be better replaced by a Stirling but that as I say would change the original spec....even though it would be better! George has the best of of it with his self build ...he can do whatever he fancies to his and looking at his pictures he has constucted quite a vehicle!

Mike


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

That's it then George, I do leave the onboard charger on for long periods, in fact it is under the wardrobe floor with no way to switch it off except at the fuse box.

This is a sensible arrangement since it shares the fuse with refrigirator!

Thanks for your help.

John 8)


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Mike

If i ever get it finished ! the commercial vehicle place thats suypposed to be doing the engine still have not started !

Hi Dodger

Andy is not correct here is the relevant page from the Highway Code

see speed chart 30 50 60 70

Detailed listing and speed Chart.

Detailed listing

Another Detailed listing Clearly shows the seperate rules for Motorhomes and goods vehicles which is nice

Ring your local police who will also confirm that the above is the case.

George


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

jabber said:


> I do leave the onboard charger on for long periods, in fact it is under the wardrobe floor with no way to switch it off except at the fuse box.


Hi John

On my Executive which I know is older than yours so will be different I guess, the charger is under the bed behind the drivers seat and can be switched on and off at the unit. It is accessed by a drop down door and a swinging circular cover plate. A green led/light on the unit shows when it is on.
If the charger unit is the same one (zig) then yours will have a switch on it too so maybe there is an access hatch plate somewhere, like on mine.
Have another look in the handbook or give the tech dept at Autosleepers a ring. I am sure there must be a switch that you can get at other than the fuse. When on a hook up you will need to be able to switch the onboard charge unit off to use your new Ctek charger otherwise the onboard charger will interfere with the way the Ctek works.

Mike


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## 89813 (May 1, 2005)

http://www.roadlincs.com/content/commercial/default.asp?Call=Content&ID=533
This link says

Passenger vehicle
Dual purpose vehicle
Motor caravan
all of which exceed 3050 kg unladen or 8 passenger seats and do not exceed 12 metres length *50 60 70*

http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/roadsafe/speed/

And this one says
Passenger vehicle, dual purpose vehicle, motor caravan, car derived van exceeding 3050kg unladen or 8 passenger seats and : - NOT exceeding 12 metres in length *60 60 70*
So which one do I believe or does the speed limit vary from county to county


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Mike, no it is that crazy! It is right under the fuse box I have traced the wiring, I may at some stage fit an independant switch. 

You can see the switch on the charger after you have unscrewed the wardrobe base!

I need to check on the heater pipes soon so I shall think about the switch then. Slight problem the nearest Caravan place to get a matching Clipsal switch is 37 miles away - the advantage of living under the Heathrow flightpath!!!!!!!!!!

All the best,

John.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Mike

There should be a seperate switch for the Charger its usually on a little control panel. However using it on site is prob not a good idea it is limited to 3.6 amps and its not really designed to be used onsite will the system is under load.

Next thing is that having fully charged at home, you can end up losing charge while driving to your destination via the split charge relay.

Jabber if you were to take your van for a drive say for half an hour to an hour then leave the system to "cool" down for a few hours you will find that the leisure will settle at a lower voltage. ie it will have lost some capacity.

I suggested this over at the SBMCC earlier this year and there was uproar from the "experts" the thread ran to 15 Pages, I even did several experiments to prove my assertion, two chaps with degrees in Electronics (one an Honours degree no less) went away to prove me wrong, that was in May I think they have given up trying to do it now. 

Has a side issue on charging Two members of the committee there reccomend using an Halfords Charger instead of a Zig or proper charger, even after I have explained to them how this could prove dangerous, not just in terms of ruining the battery but the "possible" explosion could cause serious injury.

A batteries expansion rate in the event of an explosion is similar to Dynomite ! never mind the lead shrapnel and acid.

George


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Snipped: A batteries expansion rate in the event of an explosion is similar to Dynomite ! never mind the lead shrapnel and acid.
> 
> George


When my son was in his teens we used to race model electric cars, his cousin ,my nephew, always came with us and had his own cars and recharge set up at home. For model race cars this involves recharging nicads from a 12volt Leisure battery. What happened we are not too sure about but my 13 year old nephew came home from school, to an empty house, and went straight to the garage to see how his leisure battery was charging for the nights race outing. He must have disconnected the crocodile clips without swiching off the charger....we do not know to this day how he got away with no major injuries, the explosion was heard 4 doors away and the next door folks came to his assitance but he was amazing, he had got himself to the kitchen sink and washed all the acid from his face and clothes. He had a few burns from the acid but was Ok, clearing up the garage was a longer job! Bits of the battery were scattered all over and some damage was done to the Austin 7 which lived in the garage!

As you so rightly say 12 volt lead acid batteries can be a real danger.

I wonder how many of our Motorhomefacts memembers are aware of this hazard.

Mike

P.S. when we had our van there was no breather tube fitted to the battery, I guess this is the same on many vans. Worth checking ..if you are reading this thread!!!!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

I have had a most illuminating discussion today with the West mercia Traffic Dept. For the moment no names no pack drill.

1. Has far as the law is concerned a motorhome IS NOT A GOODS VEHICLE

2. Even with a garage, if the garage contains your stuff ie bikes motocross gear whatever persoinal property its still a motorhome. If however you were caught with Stock ie 5 new wrapped bikes that you had not bought "retail" and recently then you would get your butt kicked severely.

3. Some checking is being done, but it appears that a motorhome would be subject to speed limits in all cases of urban 30 Single 50 Dual 60 and motorway 70

4. There would be no restriction of 3rd lane use

5. Re the One Major Case that was dropped it is their opinion that there is no law to support restriction on motorhome size ie

There is no pre or post 97 rule for motorhomes, like mini buses and buses they are not classified by weight, and further there is no weight limit on motorhomes full stop ie it could be 16 tonnes on a single axle and anyone can drive it as long as they have passed their car test. or even bigger as a multi Axle. We did briefly touch on Artics but I am not interested in following that up (YET) 

They do think it would be absolutely ridiculous for some green learner who has just passed their test but not actually ilegal. Mind you we all agree that no greenhorn would want to. They thought up one doozey during the meeting could someone take their test in a 40 foot american motorhome? they are looking into that. 

Road Tax should be same as car NOT Private HGV

So far everything I have colated re this (subject) the Traffic dept agree with, soon we will have a pool of info cross referenced with the actual Law.

George


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

> 3. Some checking is being done, but it appears that a motorhome would be subject to speed limits in all cases of urban 30 Single 50 Dual 60 and motorway 70
> 
> Thats what I was on about - that is not the same as cars


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dodger,

You agreed with Andy and Andy was saying that a 7.5 tonne vehicle cannot do 70 MPH on a motorway, nothing about car speeds was mentioned.

AndySam

Whilst not a true HGV, vehicles over 3050 kg unladen are subject to HGV speeds.

Read it, it appears wrong according to the highway code. Note it states also a 7.5 tonne lorry can drive at 70mph on a motorway! No doubt thouusands of convicted lorry drivers may be interested in that if it were true!

I explained where Andy's error was and that Motorhomes and or vehicles up to 7.5 Tonnes could do 70 mph an a motorway

You (Dodger) then came back with:

Andysam is correct in his quoting the speed limits, I saw these published a while ago, and thought it was an error - did some checking and found it to be correct.

If you believe otherwise George you can always put it to the test !!!!

I then quoted and linked to the Online Highway Code and Quoting Highway code and Relevant law also posting 2 links to speed tables.

At no point did we say that HGV and cars could travel at the same speeds.

Paul (Anskyber) as noticed and anomaly between the two sites quoted where the Devon and Cornwall police have posted an incorrect figure on their chart in another Devon and Cornwall Chart

http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/dcsc/educadvi/spedlimi.htm

They do list the correct figures.

If the Blip on their charts is what you were refering to you could have been a bit clearer.

George


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## 89813 (May 1, 2005)

So the moral of the story is don’t trust the information you get from the internet you could end up in trouble!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Paul

Thats a sad thing to think, always check.

All info needs checking and thats the beauty of a forum different eyes and different perspectives. 

Always try to satisfy yourself or question the info, writing everything off means there would be no point and if theres no point why are you here?

George


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## 89813 (May 1, 2005)

Why am I here George! I am here because I want to be and I will remain here until I am told to go. This speed limit thing has intrigued me for a while, as I have never been sure of the answer. Plus there was something on another forum saying the Devon and Cornwall police were wrong but I cant find it anymore. All I have to do now is get the weight of the van.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Paul

If you wanted the answer you only had to ask :wink: , sorry if you thought I was trying to get rid of you, just thought it sad that you feel the need to mistrust everything.

George


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## 89813 (May 1, 2005)

Mistrust is not sad but just being streetwise


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## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

NOT the DOG Mike!!!!!


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