# Time for new tyres all round, Continental, Michelin or Toyo?



## Pat-H

Looking at :

Continental Vanco camper 
Michelin Agilis Camping

But also tempted by the Toyo H09

The Toyo is a winter tyre but the tread looks great for getting off muddy fields. We only do a few thousand a year so summer wear isn't an issue. I see others have gone the H09 route.

Thoughts?

Its for a Swift Lifestyle 6.4M 3.5T
Based of the Fiat Ducato chassis.


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## aldra

We go continental 

But then again we’re not that clued up 

It’s enough , we do about 5Th miles a year 

Don’t travel in extreme conditions , snow ect 

Sandra


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## coppo

Toyo H09, same as we have just got on the van we pick up in 12 days. You are correct they are great for getting off muddy fields, snow, rain, everything, you only have to look at the tread pattern to see why.
Got 6 of them for 470 euros so a good price too, just over £400.


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## raynipper

As coppo says........................

Ray.


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## Webby1

Another one for the Toyo H09...........................very happy with them for the price..........................sometimes the other finer points of tyres..........like ride quality etc 

just passes me by.

We have air suspension and whether it's fully inflated or not at all,the drive quality is..........................about the same


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## lgbzone

I'm the odd one out; i really like the Michelin Agilis Camping.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I go for the cheapest I can find on blackcircle.com that are up to spec, so many on here and other forums reckon there is little difference between the makes, and you pay for the name.


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## caulkhead

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I go for the cheapest I can find on blackcircle.com that are up to spec, so many on here and other forums reckon there is little difference between the makes, and you pay for the name.


Agreed Kev. When I renewed 2 years ago I bought 5 X Hankook Vantras on the internet. Might have been Black circle, can't remember. The point is they were off the radar as far as most motorhome recommendations went, but they were up to spec and on offer at a very good price. People talk about harder or softer rides from different makes but can people really tell the difference?


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## lgbzone

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I go for the cheapest I can find on blackcircle.com that are up to spec, so many on here and other forums reckon there is little difference between the makes, and you pay for the name.


Hi Kev

To be fair there are also a lot on the motorhome forums that disagree.

Personally from my own experience, going forwards i would only buy motorhome specific, especially on the front.
My tyres require a 113 weight rating but last time i put some on the rear i used goodyear light-truck tyres (G91 i think) that have a higher weight rating of 116 and saved me maybe £15 quid per tyre, and I hate them. For the loaded weight of my rear axle the required psi with michelins was around 69psi, i put the same in the goodyears and they were obviously under inflated, so I increased it to 75 which is the maximum the goodyears support and they still look far too flat but i can't increase the pressure, so ultimately i don't fully trust them. had they been front tyres i'd have changed them straight away, I put up with goodyears on the rear at the moment but i'm almost looking forwards to when the time comes to change them.

In the past when i contacted michelin about their motorhome tyres they advised that the primary difference is thickness and strength of the sidewall in order to support higher inflation pressures and protect the sidewall under motorhome specific conditions; longer standing periods and higher percentage of usage under maximum load. at first i was sceptical until a good friend that owns a garage and a tyre fitters explained that the difference between run-flat tyres and standard tyres is the thickness of the sidewall, and i'd rather suffer a puncture in a run-flat than a standard tyre.

Lee


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## Pudsey_Bear

True Lee, it's a long running debate, as a courier of many years I always went for Hankook, but they started upping there prices, so I discussed it at length on a courier forum, just get the cheapest up to spec, when I got into motorhomes I asked at several tyre outfits large and small, cheap was the advice again from most.


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## HermanHymer

Conti Vanco Campers for me. No complaints whatsoever. Price and availability are an issue, as is what kind of environments you're going to subject your tyres to. Mine are a bit pampered. Indoors all winter, and not many rough roads. Also keep in mind they should be replaced at 7 years of age maximum. 

When I bought the last set, there was a shortage and I could only get 2 tyres, the balance of 3 I bought the following year. Consider also if you should need to buy any replacements whilst on a trip. Is your choice likely to be available (in Europe?) at a fair price?


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## jiwawa

Mine are Michelin Agilis Camping M&S 215/70R15CP and the advice from the manufacturer is to keep the rear ones at 80psi. This seems to go against previous advice which was to match the pressure to the load on the axle.

My dealer suggested that the 80psi was relevant when storing but that I should run on 60 all round. 

Must say I find it all a bit confusing.


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## Pat-H

Yes I'm aware of the advice on the life span of the tyres. And advice ranges from changing them every 5 years to every 10 years.
I emailed Continental for their advice a few years back and they suggested 10 years max but it all depends on how they have been treated and the condition of them.
Our tyres (and van) have only done 24K miles in 10 years so the ones on it have loads of tread left (especially as I rotated back to front)

I won't be changing the spare as its done about 8K Miles and is under the van so out of the sun etc. Not prepared to pay £100 for it to sit there for another 10 years.

So it will be a set of 4 and if we get a puncture the spare will just be a limp to garage or home.

I agree its much of a muchness as long as they meet spec but the H09s have the tread pattern that's of interest. getting stuck on wet grass is a more frequent issue for us than long runs at speed on hot summer roads.


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## Pat-H

Thought I'd update this topic.
Eventually went with the Toyo H09s
Got them for under £240 for 4 delivered to my door from Demon Tweaks
Then paid ATS £60 to fit, balance and dispose of the old.
Guy wasn't too happy as they didn't have camper on them.
I pointed out that they had the same spec, same loading rating, same speed rating same side wall ply count.
He wasn't happy but fitted them. 

Customer support at Toyo UK very helpful. Said a lot of motorhomers used them. Even gave me tyre pressures based on my axle loading (65psi front 69psi rear)

Done a few hundred miles since. Quieter and smoother ride now and handles then same. Not had a chance t chew up any wet grass yet ;-)


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## Pat-H

Just back from nearly 2K miles on the new tyres. They are great. Possibly a little more weave when passing big trucks at high speeds but hard to compare.
The ride is so much nicer now. Its less noisy and less tiring.
And the grip is great. Got squeezed onto some mud passing a coach in a very narrow scotish lane. Tyre sank upto wheel trim but the tyres just dug a way out. 
Very happy with them.


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## Webby1

We are 3850 and was told by Toyo to run them at 60 and 65 rear. They are 225 70 15

Check your info about 69 rear........................... I am sure they have a maximum of 65 psi written on ours.


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## Pat-H

Just checked and the H09s on mine are rated at 70psi on the tyre.


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## Webby1

That's interesting Pat...................are they the same size ....................don't know if that makes a difference to the PSI.......................but that's a fair old difference


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## aldra

conti vancos here 
Sandra


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## Pat-H

Webby1 said:


> That's interesting Pat...................are they the same size ....................don't know if that makes a difference to the PSI.......................but that's a fair old difference


Mine are 215/70R15C 109 H09


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## EJB

My serious thought at tyre change...same as last time....it makes no difference at all...happen to use Michelin Agilis Campers!


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## HurricaneSmith

I've got Agilis on my van. 

My concern is how to pronounce the word. .......... 

.


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## pete4x4

I have Agilis CrossCountry on mine, so far much quieter than Camping


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## Webby1

Just to round off @Pat-H my HO9 have a 65 PSI rating but they are 225 70 15 so the size must affect the pressure rating.

Still very good tyres and would recommend to others.


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## peribro

Only commenting on the tyre pressure point but the maximum pressure on the tyre is only that - it is not the recommended or correct pressure. All too often people (and garages) think that they need to pump the tyres up to the max pressure on the tyre - that is mostly wrong. The pressure should be that which is appropriate for the the weight on the tyres / axles and you only know that by weighing the vehicle.

My tyres show a max pressure 80psi on them but the correct weights (per Michelin based on my axle weights) are 50 - 55psi on all 3 axles. It doesn't half make a difference to ride comfort!


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## jiwawa

jiwawa said:


> Mine are Michelin Agilis Camping M&S 215/70R15CP and the advice from the manufacturer is to keep the rear ones at 80psi. This seems to go against previous advice which was to match the pressure to the load on the axle.
> 
> My dealer suggested that the 80psi was relevant when storing but that I should run on 60 all round.
> 
> Must say I find it all a bit confusing.


Who else uses the Michelin Agilis Camping M&S 215/70R15CP - and do you run the rear ones at the 80psi recommended?

I'm running mine at 60 all round which seems to be grand.


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## HurricaneSmith

peribro said:


> Only commenting on the tyre pressure point but the maximum pressure on the tyre is only that - it is not the recommended or correct pressure. All too often people (and garages) think that they need to pump the tyres up to the max pressure on the tyre - that is mostly wrong. The pressure should be that which is appropriate for the the weight on the tyres / axles and you only know that by weighing the vehicle.
> 
> My tyres show a max pressure 80psi on them but the correct weights (per Michelin based on my axle weights) are 50 - 55psi on all 3 axles. It doesn't half make a difference to ride comfort!


Welcome back Peter.

.


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## Pat-H

Webby1 said:


> Just to round off @Pat-H my HO9 have a 65 PSI rating but they are 225 70 15 so the size must affect the pressure rating.
> 
> Still very good tyres and would recommend to others.


Good thing you jogged my memory Webby1. I just checked and my revised pressure labels inside the passenger door say 62PSI front and 65PSI back.

Having dug out the whole email chain the original values of 65 and 69 PSI were based on the conversion from the continentals I had before. The current tyres, in my size, do have a max that supports 69psi but the guy at Toyo UK who took my axle weights came back with the 62 65 PSI suggestion and that's what I'm using.

I now suspect the original pressures where too high and explained, in part, why the ride was so noisy and hard!


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## nickkdx

jiwawa said:


> Who else uses the Michelin Agilis Camping M&S 215/70R15CP - and do you run the rear ones at the 80psi recommended?
> 
> I'm running mine at 60 all round which seems to be grand.


We've got the same tyre but in 16" and run them at 4.5 bar, about 65 psi, that's the pressure in our Hymer manual for our size tyre.
Used this pressure for the last 9 years.


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## jiwawa

nickkdx said:


> We've got the same tyre but in 16" and run them at 4.5 bar, about 65 psi, that's the pressure in our Hymer manual for our size tyre.
> Used this pressure for the last 9 years.


You have a tyre pressure in the Hymer manual?!?

Don't remember seeing one, must have another look. Thanks for the info.

In the EMV I can't see what van/weight you have - can you let me know please?


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## HurricaneSmith

Yes, Michelin Agilis 225/75 R16CP but only because they came with the PVC. 

AutoTrail specify 5.5bar (79.8psi) on all four wheels and as the ride and steering feels fine, I'll leave it as the manual specifies. 

It'll be interesting to see how it handles on snow/mud in the UK.

.


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## jiwawa

When it's a PVC I guess it's not surprising the pressures are the same as the base. The problem seems to arise when there's something different built on the base.


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## peribro

HurricaneSmith said:


> Yes, Michelin Agilis 225/75 R16CP but only because they came with the PVC.
> 
> AutoTrail specify 5.5bar (79.8psi) on all four wheels and as the ride and steering feels fine, I'll leave it as the manual specifies.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how it handles on snow/mud in the UK.


I think that Autotrail has specified what the maximum pressure should be under maximum load. If your tyres have the load / speed rating of 116Q then the maximum load is 1,250kg per tyre and if 118R it is 1,320kg per tyre.

I don't know your axle weights but I believe the max weight of your van is 3,500kg. If that was split evenly between the tyres then the load per tyre is 875kg. I think it is quite likely therefore that you are over-inflating two tyres if not all four. Apart from ride discomfort it can cause to a skittish ride and handling problems in some circumstances.

I have the same tyres and with 1,500 kg on each of the rear axles I have the tyres at 50psi (per Burstner) and 55psi on the front axle which has a load of 1,750kg.


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## jiwawa

Peter, can you point me to where you're getting the pressure info for different axle loads please?

I could only ever find a blanket 80psi for the rear axle, which has to be wrong.


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## peribro

Yes, 80psi for the rear axle is usually wrong but the industry has moved that way for perceived safety reasons. I have previously had correct (and lower) tyre pressures from Continental and Michelin but now they only give the maximum 80psi figure regardless of axle loadings. Similarly Tyresafe https://www.tyresafe.org/check-your-pressures/motorhomes/ has gone the same way and only gives 80psi on a single rear axle in their calculator regardless of weight.

You have to ask why if a pressure is OK on the front tyres it isn't OK on the rears if the axle weights are the same. I think the reason is that many people unknowingly overload their motorhomes on the rear axle because most manufacturers almost fraudulently misrepresent the payload ability. It's one thing telling you that you have 500kg payload but if the "free" payload is at the front of the van and the garage is at the back, people are going to overload. So if in doubt, inflate the rear to the max is probably the safest advice,

A few years ago Tyresafe produced a leaflet (that I'll try to upload) that gave proper pressures for the rear axle.


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## jiwawa

Peter, that sounds great but I'm getting 'broken image' when I try to see it. Could you possibly PM it to me? Many thanks.


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## rayc

My tyres on my Pilote are Continental 225/75R16CP and I asked Continental for the pressures. Here is their reply which gives pressures of Front 3.5 bar/ Rear 4.25bar which is far less than Fiat or Pilote. 
The question is who can you trust? Personally I trust Continental more especially as someone puts their name to it.


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## Pat-H

I'd always go with the maker of the tyre for advice on pressure and loading. they know they make them!


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## H1-GBV

peribro said:


> A few years ago Tyresafe produced a leaflet (that I'll try to upload) that gave proper pressures for the rear axle.


My Rapido 9series is built on a Merc Sprinter chassis.

Mercedes quote the following figures for my 225/70 R15 tyres in their handbook which came with the vehicle.

Front axle: Load 1 650kg (weighbridge said mine was 1 660Kg) - 3.1bar cf TyreSafe booklet - 1 641kg, 3.05bar
Rear axle: Load 1 800Kg (weighbridge = 1 840kg) - 3.5bar cf TyreSafe booklet - 1 832kg, 3.5bar.

[NB total mass = 3 500kg = limit! :crying:]

So there seems to be considerable agreement for ordinary van tyres, especially as neither source is specifying a make.

IF I had CP tyres [LI = 112], the loads change to 1 952kg (lowest quoted for single axle), 4.00 bar and 1 823kg, 4.25bar

I'm looking to renew 2 tyres (10y old - OOPS! but plenty of tread >) and would like to go with winter tyres.

However, none of the national companies seem to supply much choice.

I could go with Michelin Agilis CrossClimate for £130 approx from KwikFit or Conti Vanco four season for £123 from National.
Has anyone used "cheap" tyres such as Maxxis VanSmart (£80 + fitting from MyTyres) or MasterSteel All Weather Van ((£75 + fitting)?

We've just had considerable problems sourcing a tyre for the car through an internet supplier (DPD's fault) so I'm preffering to buy one from a local shop :frown2:.

Thanks - Gordon


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## Pudsey_Bear

I rang Citroen when I did my self build as the only guide was on the door jamb, and I had no manual.

They had no clue, not on any database I got a email eventually telling what useless system the had, I think I posted it on here.

Regarding ring tyre manufactures for details seem a bit of a odd thing to do, and if everyone did it, tyre prices would rocket.


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## Pat-H

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I rang Citroen when I did my self build as the only guide was on the door jamb, and I had no manual.
> 
> They had no clue, not on any database I got a email eventually telling what useless system the had, I think I posted it on here.
> 
> Regarding ring tyre manufactures for details seem a bit of a odd thing to do, and if everyone did it, tyre prices would rocket.


Nobody rings nowadays. We email and Toyos UK supplier (details easily found online) was more than happy to help.

I had the axle weights and specs of the tyres Swift supplied. Toyo was happy to check their tyres met or where better than those required and where able to give the pressures for those axle loads for their tyres.

Makes far more sense to ask the people who make the tyres.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Pat-H said:


> Nobody rings nowadays. We email and Toyos UK supplier (details easily found online) was more than happy to help.
> 
> I had the axle weights and specs of the tyres Swift supplied. Toyo was happy to check their tyres met or where better than those required and where able to give the pressures for those axle loads for their tyres.
> 
> Makes far more sense to ask the people who make the tyres.


Well excuse me   I rang the local Citroen dealer thinking they may have a clue, it's their job to know, they are hands on, they gave me the HQ in London or somewhere's number, who eventually gave me an email, then it got really silly as we went back and forth them wanting more and more details, the tyre factor was never asked only the size I intended using, I recall it was a very high figure than the tyres were capable of of using, I finished by telling them that they should be ashamed of their lack of product knowledge, this was after several weeks of back n forth.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I thought it might be in this thread but nay, some interesting old name and comments though.

https://forums.motorhomefacts.com/2...interesting-tyre-pressure-recommendation.html


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## Pat-H

I guess if I didn't get a sensible response from a supplier I'd go elsewhere.
Toyo where simple and spot on.


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## Penquin

We had a superb response from both Dunlop and Michelin when we were considering which tyres to get - both companies gave very detailed responses after 'phone calls and Dunlop in fact said that the Michelin would be the best choice for our MH an they would recommend XYZ tyre pressure for the Michelin Agilis Camping tyre - a figure that EXACTLY agreed with the figure that Michelin supplied.

Dunlop said to go for the Michelin as their tyres were not readily available here.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Dave, I just clicked the link in your Sig and got this.


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## HurricaneSmith

peribro said:


> I think that Autotrail has specified what the maximum pressure should be under maximum load. If your tyres have the load / speed rating of 116Q then the maximum load is 1,250kg per tyre and if 118R it is 1,320kg per tyre.
> 
> I don't know your axle weights but I believe the max weight of your van is 3,500kg. If that was split evenly between the tyres then the load per tyre is 875kg. I think it is quite likely therefore that you are over-inflating two tyres if not all four. Apart from ride discomfort it can cause to a skittish ride and handling problems in some circumstances.
> 
> I have the same tyres and with 1,500 kg on each of the rear axles I have the tyres at 50psi (per Burstner) and 55psi on the front axle which has a load of 1,750kg.


Thanks for your kind thoughts Peter. Like you, I've seen so many long threads regarding tyre pressures.

When I bought the van I was surprised by the AutoTrail manual too. So I also visited the TyreSafe website you show in your reply, punched in the values shown on the Second Stage Convertor Plate fixed under the slam panel and was pleasantly surprised to see the rear axle cold tyre inflation pressure calculated as 5.5bar (80psi).

Who knows, maybe that's how AutoTrail obtained the values shown in their manual. :smile2:

.


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## HurricaneSmith

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Dave, I just clicked the link in your Sig and got this.


Kev, After a recent update my Macbook started showing that warning (in red) for some websites designated Http and not Https.

If I know and trust the source, I ignore it.

.


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## Penquin

Not sure why our website should be unsafe as AFAIK it is perfectly OK and we certainly have no problems....

Thanks for the warning I will have a look at it...

It came about w.e.f. 2014 when Google decided to switch to https and in so doing sell security certificates and shame those who do not buy this by putting an "insecure" red triangle or an "information available" to the LEFT of the web address when you have the url in your address line.

We will look into it via our hosing company as that is something we have never been offered and obviously by labelling it as "Not Secure" they are effectively branding it and making it a less trustworthy site.....

I will inquire what our hosting company says about it but it simply looks like a decision made by Google to sell moire things or else.....

https://www.brafton.com/blog/distribution/how-to-convert-http-to-https-a-quick-guide/


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## peribro

HurricaneSmith said:


> So I also visited the TyreSafe website you show in your reply, punched in the values shown on the Second Stage Convertor Plate fixed under the slam panel and was pleasantly surprised to see the rear axle cold tyre inflation pressure calculated as 5.5bar (80psi).
> 
> Who knows, maybe that's how AutoTrail obtained the values shown in their manual. :smile2:


Yes, the whole industry appears to have moved to giving the maximum for a single rear axle.

Attached is a screenshot (in case the earlier pdf didn't work) of what Tyresafe was recommending a few years ago - vastly different on the rear axle on most weights.


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## HurricaneSmith

For one horrible minute I thought I had started a new paragraph with the word "So" but then I realised that you had simply clipped my post.

Phew.......  

.


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## peribro

So I was listening to You and Yours on R4 today and there was a lady being interviewed and every single answer started "So". Trouble is it can become catching and addictive!


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## HurricaneSmith

peribro said:


> So I was listening to You and Yours on R4 today...............


:smile2: :smile2: :smile2:

Exactly....... The older I get, the more grouchy I get about all manner of things that other people do.

.


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## Pudsey_Bear

"Like" & and "you know" and people who put " " everybloodywhere, & like air quotes are even more annoying you know, not to mention this new thing they seem to be doing around the word "fun" but using it out of context, which started in american shows and films.


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## nickkdx

jiwawa said:


> You have a tyre pressure in the Hymer manual?!?
> 
> Don't remember seeing one, must have another look. Thanks for the info.
> 
> In the EMV I can't see what van/weight you have - can you let me know please?


Mines the 2001 B584 , we met at Ray's
The vans 3,500kg ( unrated to 3,850kg but not loaded to that)


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## jiwawa

nickkdx said:


> ... we met at Ray's...


Oh hi!

I'm very bad with names but I still occasionally have a black Russian in your honour!


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## jiwawa

Here's a screenshot of Peter's old-style tyre pressure leaflet - prior to the current one that says 80psi on rear regardless of axle weight.

My tyres are the 3rd set of 3 lines from bottom. The 3 lines refer to: Front axle, rear axle and twin rear. 

I have 1720kg on the rear axle so pressure of 64psi I think (up from the 60 I was using).

However the problem comes when looking at the front axle - mine is 1580, well below the 1st entry in the table. 

I'm sure I've read somewhere about how to extrapolate from the given info but can't find anything - can anyone help with that?


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## Penquin

Can you by any chance post it again with the full screen showing? At present the left hand side and the top cannot be read on my screen....

sorry to be a PITA


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## jiwawa

Unfortunately that's the best I can do on the phone Dave. Have you enlarged the image?

Peter wasn't able to upload the file itself but I'll give it a go.

Nope, won't allow me to upload a pdf. 

I could forward by email?


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## H1-GBV

2 weeks ago I ordered a premium tyre for the car from a reputable on-line provider, at £95 plus local fitting charge.
DPD woke me at 7am on Tuesday with a text to say it would be delivered "today". It wasn't.
Another text arrived at 7am on Wednesday to say the tyre would be delivered "today".

However, their website said it was "in transit" so I phoned for clarification.
They agreed that it wouldn't be delivered on Wed but as I needed it "urgently" for a 400mile round trip starting Thursday, they "upgraded" me to delivery by 10.30am on Thursday.

At 10.45am they agreed that I wouldn't be getting it on Thursday, so I was stuck with finding an acceptable alternative: there was very little available in my town and I ended up with a mid-range option for £83 fitted.
I told them to take it back to the provider.
I told the provider that DPD may have lost it.

Whilst I was away DPD told me the tyre had been delivered.
They even sent me a photo of the tyre resting against my back porch.
When I got back on Monday, the tyre wasn't there!

After 3days it was discovered in one of the play-houses in the garden.
DPD have collected it today to return to sender, who have already refunded my money.

NOT SURPRISINGLY I am not buying my MH tyres on-line.
A local garage is supplying and fitting Yokohama WY01 tyres (fuel = f, wet braking = b, 72dB) at £94 each: fingers crossed.

Gordon


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## peribro

Penquin said:


> Can you by any chance post it again with the full screen showing? At present the left hand side and the top cannot be read on my screen....
> 
> sorry to be a PITA


I posted a screenshot on page 5 of this thread Dave

https://forums.motorhomefacts.com/2...es-all-round-continental-michelin-toyo-5.html


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## Penquin

It still has the top cut off on my image - is that a fault of me? Thanks though.

Anyone else finding the same thing?


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## jiwawa

I used the psi calculator here and input my front axle weight of 1580kg

https://www.tyresafe.org/check-your-pressures/motorhomes/

My pressures apparently should be 
56 front, 64 rear.

I'll run with that for a bit n see how it goes.


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