# Brownhills solicitors letter



## Brownfools (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi again!
I said hello a couple of days ago and mentioned my website.
As a result I have had a letter from Brownhills solicitors. They complain that I have not made clear that my problems with Brownhills occurred before they went broke.
I'm happy to put the record straight. So you can read their letter on the site. Brownfools.co.uk


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## 98202 (Mar 18, 2006)

Hi
I was at Newark yesterday and spoke to Debbie. She told me (from memory) that you bought your van from them over 6 years ago and that you had never spent a penny since - in fact you had not, to their knowledge been to the site for over 3 years. In this event - given that the directors all seem to be new this last 12 months except Andy Craggs - what possible relevance does your campaign have please? In the context of the most difficult economic situation for over 60 years - you are playing with the jobs of over 300 people. No matter your personal motives - has it not occurred to you that each of those 300 people have their own worries about their job and the economy and mayber, after 6 years, they could be excused for thinking that you need not be one of them?


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Whilst not disputing your points, I am a bit surprised that any company would freely discuss one of their customer's affairs with an unrelated client in this manner.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

A phrase similar to 

bandwaggon getting on it


springs to mind, especially having read the Website, the solicitors letter etc.

What is your agenda?
what purpose do you have for the website?
And if is the case, and you havent visited the dealer, nor purchased item from them for between 3 and 6 years, why do the website which clearly parodies the company and is designed, in my inexpert opinion, expressly to bring some disrepute to the company.

I havent got any axe to grind with Brownhills, I have not, nor anticipate a purchase from them. If, as stated, you havent bought anything from them for years, then you would appear to be in the same position as myself, in effect, you're not a customer.


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## 98202 (Mar 18, 2006)

I know what you're saying and I think its more to show the issue in perspective than disclosing confidences


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

duxdeluxe said:


> Whilst not disputing your points, I am a bit surprised that any company would freely discuss one of their customer's affairs with an unrelated client in this manner.


As an outsider I would say that it is you who has breached any supplier - customer confidentiality that may have existed. you have brought your problems into the public domain and therefore they are not private anymore.


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## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

Surely the only reason a company would wish to retain the trading name (or one very similar!) of a 'previous' company would be so they can initally trade off the goodwill passed over from the company which traded before - surely this has to be built up for a number of years previously?

If Brownhill's had indeed such a reputation prior to the management buyout and there was perceived to be little or no goodwill afforded to the new owners, then why did they just not change the name of the new company to something completely different?

The saying 'New Broom sweeps clean' springs to mind.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

ferretstroker said:


> I was at Newark yesterday and spoke to Debbie. She told me....


This all sounds very tedious. I think if you and the person who started this thread, read the aims and objectives for this forum, you'd find this ain't what most of us joined for. I also doubt that there will be many people here who are interested in what to me sounds like a dose of sour grapes on the one hand, and an unofficial official rebuttal on the other. 

*EDIT* Having briefly visited the site, it's an appalling method of self-expression, irrespective of the issues. No vote from me.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

ferretstroker said:


> Hi
> I was at Newark yesterday and spoke to Debbie. She told me (from memory) that you bought your van from them over 6 years ago and that you had never spent a penny since - in fact you had not, to their knowledge been to the site for over 3 years............


isn't it amazing that some people can get answers from Brownhills straight away.......


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## dcummin (Jan 21, 2008)

ferretstroker said:


> Hi
> I was at Newark yesterday and spoke to Debbie. She told me (from memory) that you bought your van from them over 6 years ago and that you had never spent a penny since - in fact you had not, to their knowledge been to the site for over 3 years. In this event - given that the directors all seem to be new this last 12 months except Andy Craggs - what possible relevance does your campaign have please? In the context of the most difficult economic situation for over 60 years - you are playing with the jobs of over 300 people. No matter your personal motives - has it not occurred to you that each of those 300 people have their own worries about their job and the economy and mayber, after 6 years, they could be excused for thinking that you need not be one of them?


Im struggling to find any reason to support your views that the original poster is playing with 300 peoples jobs

In these tough times there is all the more reason for companies to go that extra mile and service their customers well.

Why should paying customers put up with poor service just because someone may lose their job. If the service was great - the job would be safe.

I would also like to add - I dont think an almost hate campain website is the answer


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Brownfools, I think you should go and take legal advice from your solicitor as soon as possible, if you haven't done so. There's been quite a lot of litigation in recent years concerning the [domain name]sucks type of websites.

Having said that, I looked at yours and found it an enjoyable piece of satire.

In case Brownhills Motorhomes Limited or their solicitors Andrew & Co LLP are reading this thread, I would wish to make it clear that I've never dealt with Brownhills. The Brownfools website as such doesn't affect any decision I might make in future to buy or sell a motorhome. Brownhills management needs to lighten up, OK?

SD


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

I HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO CONNECTION TO BROWNHILLS, I MAY ONCE OF VISITED THE HYMER SITE.
That said I sincerely hope that Brownhills as a business take legal action against this Brownfools endeavour as soon as possible, what an utterly mean spirited and underhand way of trying to resolve an issue.

Asprn - you've kind of got it right, non of the vast majority of us joined or take part for this sort of thing - but if people don't say "hang on I think that's wrong" then this sort of things becomes acceptable by default. There are recognised methods of resolving disputes in a fair & equitable way - this just isnt one of them.


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

*brownfools*

I think brownfools is absolutely right in what he has said,pity he didn't mention HOMER O.K./BROWNFOOLS too.The people complaining have obviously had no dealings with these people(people who are still running this company),and to say this forum is not about this type of thing, should look at the title MOTOR HOME FACTS .The website though being presented in an amusing way, is full of MHF
Backaxle


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Hmmmm am very ambivalent about this one!! It's presented in an original way, is quite amusing language wise and really quite a funny website. Maybe would have been more relevent at the time the person had their problems instead of now but we have no idea when the site first was set up!

We seem to be unhappy when people rant and rave and threaten and are now unhappy at this kind of satire. So as someone who has a long running saga of mine own, how exactly would you like the whole sorry affair publicised, assuming that is a route I would go down of course, or should I keep me gob shut and say nowt???? Then report the outcome?? Do you all think it would be different if the OP was a longstanding member rather than someone who seems to have joined to promote their own agenda???? I dunno really!!!!

PS I say *seems* as I along with all of you have no idea whether this is indeed the case.


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

*brownfools*



carolgavin said:


> Hmmmm am very ambivalent about this one!! It's presented in an original way, is quite amusing language wise and really quite a funny website. Maybe would have been more relevent at the time the person had their problems instead of now but we have no idea when the site first was set up!
> 
> We seem to be unhappy when people rant and rave and threaten and are now unhappy at this kind of satire. So as someone who has a long running saga of mine own, how exactly would you like the whole sorry affair publicised, assuming that is a route I would go down of course, or should I keep me gob shut and say nowt???? Then report the outcome?? Do you all think it would be different if the OP was a longstanding member rather than someone who seems to have joined to promote their own agenda???? I dunno really!!!!
> 
> PS I say *seems* as I along with all of you have no idea whether this is indeed the case.


Very well put.
backaxle


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Perhaps Ferretstroker is an insider and that was how he got the info! Never mind, he hasn't many posts left, so we may not hear from him again.

Brownfools must have made an impression if the staff remember him!

Tco


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

I think this is all just a total wind up myself! :lol: 

The website is quite comical to read and someone sure has put some effort into designing it that's for sure - However, I don't suppose Brownhills find it quite so amusing as I did though? 8O 

Sue


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

On the Sunday night at Shepton some of were talking about Desert Detours at the time.
We were approached by the Brownfools site owner who us gave us a print out and explained that the vehicle he bought from Newark was in the eyes of DVLA not registered to him, also due to some fox's pass at Newark was first registered in 1920 (YES 1920) this had caused him untold grief as he had been stopped by the police because of irregularities, I understood, at his first MOT the vin number did not match DVLA, also the Y reg plate was not real and he then had a X reg plate issued to him. We were also led to believe that when he found out first things were not right he did contact Newark and they did nothing about it, DVLA when he eventually got through on the telephone wouldn't speak to him as he was not the rightful owner.
The man from Brownfools site we understood was offered no apology or compensation. So to get some recompense for his hassle was going to sell Newark the web site.

I know as a outsider it is unwise get mixed up with this saga, I am unsure if what he explained to us is totally correct, is there such a thing as smoke without fire. Who knows?
Why he doesn't come on line and explain his grief, heaven knows it would kind of sort things out. 
Sorry if this tale upset folks.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Is this all really true then? 8O 

My word .................. what a funny old world we live in eh?

Sue


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

The Brownfools site sounds like fair comment to me.

If the problems listed are correct, and I've no reason to suppose they're not, then Brownstuff is getting away lightly if the Brownfools site is the worst they get.


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

This is how it was related to us about 20:00hrs Sunday night. I my self until proved otherwise have no reason to doubt the tale.
It sounded so farcical I had to ask for a repeat of the sentences to confirm what I had heard. If this is fiction the man should be in the league of Agatha Christie story writers.
We've all heard the engineering sorry stories, now there is a new one on the block :roll:


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

I recall that when I worked for Black Horse Vehicle Management 5 or 6 years ago we had a similar mixed up registration case.

The late unloved Dixon Group (wonder where their directors are now?), supplied BHVM with a contract hire agreement which BH were financing, signed by their customers, for a car (can't remember what model now). When we had to contact DVLA for something on the vehicle they said the reg. Dixons had supplied was allocated to a John Deere tractor! 

Happy days

SDA


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Kelcat said:


> ...if people don't say "hang on I think that's wrong" then this sort of things becomes acceptable by default. There are recognised methods of resolving disputes in a fair & equitable way - this just isnt one of them.


Yes, I agree with you entirely. My comments were about the method, which will never get anything resolved for him, and from me anyways, loses the sympathy vote.



carolgavin said:


> how exactly would you like the whole sorry affair publicised


Articulately, factually, quite possibly angrily, but not rudely or intensely sarcastically. Your own saga got lots of sympathy votes including mine, and in fact I'm still interested in it, despite it not affecting me.



carolgavin said:


> Do you all think it would be different if the OP was a longstanding member rather than someone who seems to have joined to promote their own agenda????


Materially, I don't, although if the OP was known to everyone, (say it was sallytrafic ), I'd say, "Frank, you ought to reconsider here, put your engineer's hat back on, and take the spoof website down" or summit. For all I know, this post is a load of hyped-up hooey; even if it isn't, the OP has joined apparently just to lambast Brownhills, which as I've said, isn't the point of MHF.

Dougie.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Now let me see who can I remember setting up a spoof website to criticise a poor performer it was about a company taking money and not producing MHF stickers......

Yes our very own Nuke his site is still up >here<

I am sure that this is how a redress of grievance is done in the internet world and as long as there is no libel seems to me fair enough.


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

, the OP has joined apparently just to lambast Brownhills, which as I've said, isn't the point of MHF.Dougie.[/quote]

Then why don't Brownhills defend themselves on this forum,they have been invited to many times,in fact I think they referred to us all as grumpy old men(you included)when invited to one time.I also joined MHF because it is an open forum and if a subscriber lambasts Brownfools then so be it.
Backaxle.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> I am sure that this is how a redress of grievance is done in the internet world and as long as there is no libel seems to me fair enough


I thought for a minute that you'd misunderstood what I was saying above, and was setting up something. :lol: Pity. 

I agree with what you say. I've not seen Nuke's effort, and have had a look. I don't regard what he's done as anything like the other effort by the OP, as it doesn't have an air of bitter sarcasm about it, nor is it rude. It's a fair expression of opinion, which people can make their own minds up about.

And no, I'm, not just saying that 'cos it's Nuke. <sigh> Look at my face. etc.

Dougie.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

backaxle said:


> Then why don't Brownhills defend themselves on this forum


Why should they? I don't personally care a fig about Brownhills or any other dealer, but I do care about the forum's reputation being degraded, which is what is happening here in my opinion (and not for the first time).



backaxle said:


> they have been invited to many times


And I think quite sensibly they have ignored the invitations. What do you think would happen? It would be like feed-time in the piranha tank, only with less finesse.



backaxle said:


> ,in fact I think they referred to us all as grumpy old men(you included)


Did I ever deny it? 

Dougie.


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Nail struck firmly on head again Dougie, well done :lol: 
Chris


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

[/quote]
Why should they? I don't personally care a fig about Brownhills or any other dealer, but I do care about the forum's reputation being degraded, which is what is happening here in my opinion (and not for the first time).

So you don't think they have members(employees) defending them on this forum?we have had one or two today,but that is their style isn't it.The customer is always wrong.
Backaxle


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

asprn said:


> Articulately, factually, quite possibly angrily, but not rudely or intensely sarcastically. Your own saga got lots of sympathy votes including mine, and in fact I'm still interested in it, despite it not affecting me.
> 
> Dougie.


Am hopin that was due to me charm, personality not to mention charisma Dougie hunny    Ta for still being interested in me saga watch this space.........................................not this exact space though! Mwah! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

The point I was trying to make was that I'm sure this OP does feel agrieved and may indeed have many legitimate issues - however I for one like to hear as close to both sides of most arguments as possible. 
I may be being synical but 6 years after the event seems awfully wierd to me.
Others on here have posted their issues - sought advice, maybe sympathy & we've been able to form our own opinions - the whole Brownfools thing seems highly antagonistic & onesided - and as a person often called on to offer arbitration I can tell you it will not get the OP a resolution to his issues. I would also offer an opinion that it is skirting the edges of defamation & if proven to impact the perception of Brownhills then could be open to litigation.
Having quickly perused Nuke's spoof site I'd conclude it's significantly differenty to Brownfools to offer little comparison. It contains verified statements of fact & actually seems open to redress from the company concerned.
As to why Brownhills themselves aren't resent on here? I think Asprn's got it spot on.


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

I think its hilarious and always though any publicity is good publicity.


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## Smart-Tow (Jun 5, 2007)

Not sure where this post started?

All I can say is that I bought an Autosleeper from Brownhills and subsequently found that the steering column surround was misaligned around the ignition barrel and one of the windows was not security marked as all the others were.

I believe I was sold a vehicle that was stolen and recovered, but this has been impossible to prove. I have had many problems with the vehicle which Brownhills seem to be unable, unwilling or disinterested in resolving.

Yes, this was before the latest restructuring. But I can't help but feel that unless you change all the Directors and Management there is a risk that the issues discussed here will continue. I also know of another customer who bought a Niesmann Bischoff who will be expressing his feelings through free Tee-Shirts at Pickering this year! (Good luck JM)

My personal opinion would be to avoid Brownhills like the plague. Find a reputable company to buy your Motorhome from.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

A brand new unregistered vehicle that has been stolen and recovered I believe is not easy or is impossible to place on the VCAR register unlike a registered vehicle although I cannot see why the VIN number could not be registered on VCAR.

If a vehicle is just simply stolen and recovered within a matter of days and has just been driven a few miles, in all honesty it should not reflect on its value in all fairness although I would declare it as such to any purchaser should I ever have the misfortune to have one stolen.

I would not neccessarily want to VCAR a new vehicle as registering it would 'taint' it throughout its life.

Not that I am implying that any particular dealer/organisation has done this in the past or would do it in the future.

Just an informative post on stolen vehicles.


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## Charisma (Apr 17, 2008)

Interestingly, when we collected our current Motorhome from Brownhills Newark, it did not have any registation plates fitted so we had to wait while they were made up. The fitter had to have two goes at it before he got it right.

The first time we got the wrong registration entirely, and the second time, the front and rear were different.

I hope that we have the right ones now!!! :roll:


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

This thread has reminded me that in 1999 when I collected a new motorhome from Brownhills, that also had the incorrect registration number. Fortunately I noticed it before I left.


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## Brownfools (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi all,
I feel a little uncomfortable with the fact that, as the new kid on the block, I have started a thread that has caused some divisions among you folks.
Firstly can I assure Carolgavin and all that I did not join MHF just to promote any grievance with any dealer. Rather, I was genuinely impressed by the site and the demonstration of it given by Dave at the Shepton show. Then having chatted to a few of you I was left with the impression of a group of fellow MH owners who loved the lifestyle as I do. Plus, unlike a few other clubs, it obviously wasn't a prerequisite to joining that you needed to have been drawing a pension for the last 50 years (sorry if that offends).
So, firstly an apology for the divisions and secondly heartfelt thanks for the constructive comments, both on the forum and by email. These have influenced my response to the situation and the actions I have taken and will be taking over the coming days.
To those of you who enjoyed the site, I'm glad that I was able to convey, what have often been, painful experiences in a manner that raised a smile.
To those of you that feel that I have been unfair on the present owners, I have taken action to ensure that my words are not misconstrued as an attack on them.
If they raise the performance level of the company it can only be good for all of us. I genuinely wish them well in this as the industry needs to perform better in this respect. I only wish that they had taken a new name to go with the new company. I regret that the old one still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Finally, praise to Johnscrossmotorhomes for openly declaring themselves as contributors to the forum. Hats off to you for your honesty!
Best wishes to all from a fellow MH lover.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Brownfools said:


> Hi all,
> I feel a little uncomfortable with the fact that, as the new kid on the block, I have started a thread that has caused some divisions among you folks.
> Firstly can I assure Carolgavin and all that I did not join MHF just to promote any grievance with any dealer. Rather, I was genuinely impressed by the site and the demonstration of it given by Dave at the Shepton show. Then having chatted to a few of you I was left with the impression of a group of fellow MH owners who loved the lifestyle as I do. Plus, unlike a few other clubs, it obviously wasn't a prerequisite to joining that you needed to have been drawing a pension for the last 50 years (sorry if that offends).
> So, firstly an apology for the divisions and secondly heartfelt thanks for the constructive comments, both on the forum and by email. These have influenced my response to the situation and the actions I have taken and will be taking over the coming days.
> ...


Thank you for coming back on and also for joining and becoming a suscriber. A belated welcome to the forum and glad you are enjoying it. We have in the past had people come on with the sole agenda to lambast criticise and generally set about a particular company in an often unpleasant and aggressive way. I am glad that this is not the case. I hope you are able to enjoy your van despite your troubles.
Maybe I will ask for your advice in setting up such a website in thr future.
   :roll: :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

In general terms, if a company cocks up and continues to make your life a misery after you have paid out thousands of pounds then in my view the customer has a right to get bitter and twisted. And as such, is not going to give a monkeys about the employees jobs bearing in mind they mostly cause the problems.

So treat us clients properly otherwise it will be open season on this website and others.

I may add and mentioning it I am not sure does Swift much good but they were getting flack a long time ago on here and I would then not even look at a Swift.

But a director at Swifts came on here and bit by bit sorted out the problems, dealt personally with the gripes, I assume made improvements at the factory and anyone now wanting to buy a new English made motorhome would be silly not to make Swift their first port of call.

The point of course is if a director from Brownfools came on here and did likewise then they would end up with happier clients, more future clients and job security would be within the employees grasp.


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> The point of course is if a director from Brownfools came on here and did likewise then they would end up with happier clients, more future clients and job security would be within the employees grasp.


here here Pusser and a point I have tried to convey countless times to said company


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## silverlocks (Jun 28, 2007)

Why bother with them Nuke, be like me just ignore them and use a decent MH dealer who cares.
Bob


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## backaxle (Nov 6, 2006)

nukeadmin said:


> > The point of course is if a director from Brownfools came on here and did likewise then they would end up with happier clients, more future clients and job security would be within the employees grasp.
> 
> 
> here here Pusser and a point I have tried to convey countless times to said company


A point I tried to make earlier in this thread,good to see the big guns out in support.

Backaxle


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## grouch (Oct 1, 2005)

On reading Pusser's posting I feel I could not have put it better myself.

Going back over previous postings, I really resent other members pontificating on what the forum is for. Surely it is for members to use as they wish. It is a fantastic website and should only be censored as a last resort.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Brownfools said:


> Finally, praise to Johnscrossmotorhomes for openly declaring themselves as contributors to the forum. Hats off to you for your honesty!
> Best wishes to all from a fellow MH lover.


Thank you.

I have learnt a number of things from being a member off Facts and in turn I hope that I and my staff have helped others by our presence on here with technical information and advice on matters appertaining to the ownership of motorhomes.

Regards

Peter


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