# How long ticking over to top up battery?



## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

title says it all?
Refers to the van battery.
Not able to get a battery master fitted till after the xmas break - so, on average, how long does the van need to tick over for on the drive to keep the vehicle battery topped up?
I was told that 30mins drains more than it puts in?


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

If it's on the drive, run a charger from your hook up.
It is usually seen as a bad move to leave a diesel ticking over for longer than necessary. In addition to the pollution and sheer waste of fuel you will be polishing the bores which can lead to compression problems later.
There is the added problem of the van being driven off by some scroat looking for drug money.


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Bad for the engine and the pocket.....and the environment. Hook it up or, if this isn't practical, pull the battery and charge it at home.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Do this then !

http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/BRIDGING FUSE.htm

C.


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Whilst a couple hours on tickover is bad for the engine, aking it for a hour hour spin once in a while is VERY good for the engine.

Drives off condensation and gets everthing warmed through !

Make sure to turn the cab aircon on when you do (lubricates the seals in the compressor).


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone with regard to it not being a good idea.

A hook-up is much better. There is a relay available from any good automotive suppliers that will actually link your leisure battery to your starter battery whenever it senses mains voltage, An automatic version of the 'fuse' wiring diagram of an earlier answer to your post.



Kelcat said:


> title says it all?
> Refers to the van battery.
> Not able to get a battery master fitted till after the xmas break - so, on average, how long does the van need to tick over for on the drive to keep the vehicle battery topped up?
> I was told that 30mins drains more than it puts in?


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

I have a modified version of Clive,s idea using a switch instead of a fuse so when the van is parked up I flick the switch and let the solar panel look after both leisure and engine battery. If I play DVD's on my dash mounted Pioneer Mulimedia system and the engine battery is too flat to start the van I can flick the switch and release lower from the leisure batts to recharge the engine batt so I can get started. I flick the switch off before starting. I have been in this position so its all been fully tested. I think my next mod must be to have an adjustable solar panel so I can angle towards the sun when its low in the sky like now. I just witnessed a Dutch man angle his solars and the charge reading went from 1.5 amps to 5 amps he modified the mounting himself and said it was essential in winter although he did not have to bother in summer.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

And if you forget to flick the switch back before starting the engine which bit blows? 

Dave


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## madontour (May 19, 2008)

I don't disagree with using a switch to make the system more usable, but you MUST include the fuse as well to avoid trying to pull starting amps from the leisure battery if you forget to flick the switch when starting the engine.

mike


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I agree with everyone who has posted about it being a bad thing for the reasons stated but in answer to your question if the engine started first time its a matter of 10 minutes or so if your alternator is good.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Charge*

Here is a question or two.

Supposing someone had already fitted a battery master (or the cheaper CBE alternative from CakTanks, cannot remember the model number - anyone?). I can not find the unit anywhere, how would I be able to tell?

Trev.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Measure the volts at the vehicle battery and see what happens when you put the leisure battery on mains charge.

Dave


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

It would be a much better idea to take the vehicle for a run rather than let it tick over, as has been said, however it would also take the rust off the brake discs as well as do the tyres good.

cabby


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Thank you Frank - that was the answer I was after.
As I stated this is a short term solution until early Jan when the battery master is fitted.
Clive - the reason the battery master is getting fitted is that I'm not up to the sort of thing you describe - though I appreciate the thought! 
Next purchase will probably be some solar panels.


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

There is a fuse in my system also . Its just easy to flick a switch rather than fumble with the fuse


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Is the method described in Clives post more or less exactly the same as a battery master but you have to control it yourself.

But save about £98 in the process?    


Richard...


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Got it in one, Richard  Though being pedantic it won't discharge your vehicle battery if the leisure one is knackered.

Pleased to hear it C7KEN. It was the "instead" in your post that made us think otherwise:
"I have a modified version of Clive,s idea using a switch instead of a fuse"

Dave


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Thanks Dave.

One last question would it be ok to leave the cab battery in circuit for up to 4 weeks when the van is parked up in storage when an 80W Solar panel is charging the other two 110AH leisure battery's?

TIA

Richard...


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Got it in one, Richard  Though being pedantic it won't discharge your vehicle battery if the leisure one is knackered.
> 
> Pleased to hear it C7KEN. It was the "instead" in your post that made us think otherwise:
> "I have a modified version of Clive,s idea using a switch instead of a fuse"
> ...


Pedantic, you Dave,.........surely not


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Does the alternator really charge a battery at tickover (say) 800 rpm?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I was under the impression that you need about 1200 rpm before the alternator is able to reach sufficient output. 

Going for a drive is so much better all round anyway. I'll get me anorak.


SD


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Richard,

Yes.

Whether it is interesting, confusing or pedantic I'll let you choose, but the answer is only yes if you have a 'normal' cable run between your leisure and vehicle batteries (that is, some resistance). You will note that if you were proposing having dis-similar and co-located leisure batteries connected in parallel people would be over you like a rash telling you this should not be done!

Dave


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

Do you REALLY want to leave your van with the engine running and the keys in. Not sure how you explain that to the insurance company when it goes missing.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Bear - have you looked at my Avatar- you've got to get through the gates, past the security lights & come face to face with Pushka (who's quite territorial ) :wink:


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

bear1 said:


> Do you REALLY want to leave your van with the engine running and the keys in. Not sure how you explain that to the insurance company when it goes missing.


Tis also an offence if on a public road !


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

sally traffic said:


> I agree with everyone who has posted about it being a bad thing for the reasons stated but in answer to your question if the engine started first time its a matter of 10 minutes or so if your alternator is good.


I'm a bit confused here. If the battery is round the norm it will be about 85 amphours.

To input (say) 50 amphours in 10 minutes will require a current of over 500 amps.

Neither the alternator nor leisure batter charging circuit will take anything like this current.

Also the charging current supplied by the alternator is controlled by the condition of the engine battery. When this battery is fully charged the current from the alternator is drastically reduced and so the leisure battery charging current will fall.

The engine alternator is not an ideal method for charging a second battery. It is possible to modify the alternator wiring to overcome this problem but it is difficult to do (for most people) and would negate any warranty of the alternator.


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

To finish off this topic...
Turns out my vehicle battery was completly goosed. Has now been replaced.
As I am totally sick of the flat battery experience I've now purchased:
Battery master & NASA battery monitor.
set of 5m heavy duty jump leads.
Battery charger.

God I hope that's the end of flat batteries for me! :cheers:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

oldun said:


> sally traffic said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with everyone who has posted about it being a bad thing for the reasons stated but in answer to your question if the engine started first time its a matter of 10 minutes or so if your alternator is good.
> ...


I think you are confused oldun this question (as stated in the first post) was about the vehicle battery and in essence was how long it takes to put a 'start' back in.


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Re: altenator power at tick over, I can say, on my van, after starting and leaving on idle only, after 2-3s the voltage is enough to trip my "voltage sensitve relay" (13.5v) and charge everything.
I can have lights on; fridge on; heated screen/heated mirrors and fan on demist max; and charge 2x leisure batteries. It may take 5-8s to switch - but yes - the alternator provides enough power >13.5v to do the job.
A believe its a standard ford item - no mod.


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

Perhaps not the appropriate thread to ask a question about my diesel engined car but here goes!

I have a Peugeot 807 2 litre diesel automatic. Since the very cold weather I can only describe the engine as being sluggish. I live in a village where I have to climb quite a long hill to join a main road. After app. half a mile I am just about reaching 40mph and another two to three miles on a fairly flat road before I can get up to 60mph. 

The car, which I used nearly every day except in the summer months when away in the R/V, is nearly 5 years old but has only done 34,000 miles. I had been advised to let the engine run for a short with the car on my drive to 'warm up'. This I have been doing but after reading the above have realised that I shouldn't be following this advice though with the heater on the ice on the windscreen has conveniently melted within 5 minutes of the car ticking over.

The battery is OK thankgoodness as the engine starts first time!


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## thegreatpan (Oct 29, 2007)

My daughters car has had trouble starting and running since the cold weather, it has been dropping well below freezing here in sunny Uckfield, she took it to the local garage where the chap said he had several calls with diesels, seems the temp was low enough to cause slight waxing in the diesel fuel. 

I also have a Focus diesel and it has been running in a sluggish manner till warmed up, so don't worry

Intersestingly next time it wouldn't go she waited till about 10 am when the sun had been on the car for an hour or so and it went first turn.

She always fills hers up at the local independant garage (United Fuels) who sells diesel 2p litre cheaper than the main brand fuels, I wondered if this was more of a summer fuel as opposed to winter diesel from the others?


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

*CHURCHILL DOG SPEAKS*

" but you MUST include the fuse"

OH YES YES YES YES !!


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

thegreatpan said:


> She always fills hers up at the local independant garage (United Fuels) who sells diesel 2p litre cheaper than the main brand fuels, I wondered if this was more of a summer fuel as opposed to winter diesel from the others?


That's interesting! Is there a difference between brands ? The sluggishness has happened since I filled up for the first time at the newly opened Morrisons garage in Canterbury. (Diesel there today 97.9p /litre). I think I will go back to the Esso garage next time to fill up to see if it makes a difference using a different brand.


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## ramos (Nov 1, 2008)

Invicta said:


> thegreatpan said:
> 
> 
> > She always fills hers up at the local independant garage (United Fuels) who sells diesel 2p litre cheaper than the main brand fuels, I wondered if this was more of a summer fuel as opposed to winter diesel from the others?
> ...


There are a lot of members that say that the petrol all comes from one source but it is known that aditves are added and there is sometimes a difference in MPG with Supermaket Fuel. Lots of reports of sluggish engines so try the experiment yourself and come up with your own conclusions as I have and I use an Independent garage now.

From another Forum
Is there a difference between "supermarket" petrol and brand names? Whilst the power of the supermarkets is undoubtedly driving the prices down, there is a school of thought that supermarket fuel is a "cheap" product with less additives. I had trouble early this year with my car when two co2 sensors had to be replaced at a cost of £400. Garage told me that using supermarket fuel all the time probably cause this and they recommended using "brand" petrol or at least alternating between them. I switched to a major brand and found my car runs better and does better mpg.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Does running a modern petrol or diesel engine on tickover really matter?

In the old days they probably ran fuel rich, which isn't good, but nowadays with the MASS and oxygen sensors coupled to computer controlled electronic fuel injection, I doubt it makes much difference.

Olley


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## oldenstar (Nov 9, 2006)

Getting back to the original theme I have to say that I consider having a Battery Master and an Elecsol 125 amp Leisure Battery upgrade fitted by our Eddie to be one of my best van upgrades.

The Ducato vehicle battery seems to discharge pretty quickly when left, so being able to just plug in from time to time to get it back to full charge is a real boon. Relieves a lot of worry.

Paul


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## lr147 (Jan 27, 2008)

As money is tight at the mo and I can't afford a battery master. I like the wire, fuse, switch idea. One question I have is Is there a min wire thickness to use when connecting the 2 batteries?
Thanks.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

In practice any sensible 12V auto cable or similar is fine. It MUST have a fuse in it, and personally if I went that way I'd include a resistance such as a 12V bulb in line, too, as a spark suppressant. You won't lose juice to any significance as the voltage across the bulb will asymptotically approach zero.

The rather interesting question it prompts me to mull is the MAXIMUM cable thickness. For if you imagine zero resistance between the terminals (short cable or very thick long one) then you have dis-similar batteries being charged in parallel, which everyone knows is a no-no. But in practice don't worry about it.

Dave


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> > sally traffic said:
> ...


Sorry about that I must learn to read the original post more clearly.

I will stand in the naughty corner for the rest of the evening.


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