# What would your penalty / charge be for using a Mobile?



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Daily, I lose count of the number of drivers I see using a mobile phone, most quite blatantly.

But for one driver flashing another driver of an articulated truck out into a lane yesterday, he would have probably smashed into my van.

I saw someone driving whilst using facebook on the M62 death Valley! . 

I was thinking £2,500 fine and a driving ban.

What are your views?

TM


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## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

Chop one hand off first offence - second offence..........


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## Skez (Apr 23, 2013)

Or we could dispense with all the Highway Patrol crews on motorways, employ proper Traffic Police Officers and enforce the existing legislation in respect of driving using handheld phones, dangerous driving etc. etc. 

Skez.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Everyone is always in too much of a hurry these days, My family knew that if I did not answer the phone when it rang I was NOT ABLE TO. I always rang back or read the message as soon as was possible. However if it was a persistent ring then I would stop where I was and answer it. taxi licence allows this. :roll: :roll: 
I blame lack of education and common sense, Health and safety has removed a lot of that.
I would have that mobile blocked for 3 days for first offence. I mean blocked by the service provider so that it would not work even with a different sim.
If it involved an accident, then charged with dangerous driving, not that namby pamby without due care.
Maybe someone can tell me when it is really necessary to chat on the phone whilst driving.

cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

TM, how could you see it was facebo**ocks anyway.
eyes should have been on the road.
cabby


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

cabby said:


> TM, how could you see it was facebo**ocks anyway.
> eyes should have been on the road.
> cabby


I was a Passenger!


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Second offence, chop the other hand off!!

Off on a tangent, how many drivers of luxury cars that have Bluetooth fitted do you see blatantly talking on their smartphones?


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

deefordog said:


> Second offence, chop the other hand off!!
> 
> Off on a tangent, how many drivers of luxury cars that have Bluetooth fitted do you see blatantly talking on their smartphones?


Good point, I see that too!.

1 is too many but I see many of those too.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

you can make as many laws or fines for offences as you like but if they don't get enforced whats the point, i can go out most days in my car or van and see loads of drivers either phoning or texting as they drive.

the punishment has to be a deterrent so I would have a 1 year driving ban minimum as it is for drink driving as it is supposed to be as distracting as driving under the influence.

i have hands free via Bluetooth built into my car yet it is easy with that to lose concentration


John


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

They should just ban them completely from cars. Even Hands free isnt safe. Your not concentrating. How many of you have been on hands free and missed a junction or turning eh?

I switch mind off now when driving. Anyway I like to have a beer coming up the M1, dont want the bloody phone ringing! :lol:


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

If they are using their works vehicle then the company are fined. If they are using their own then vehicle has to have hands free kit installed by prepaid registered installer prior to release.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Camdoon said:


> If they are using their works vehicle then the company are fined. If they are using their own then vehicle has to have hands free kit installed by prepaid registered installer prior to release.


IS that correct?


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

No fines or points just a 3 months driving ban for the first conviction and then double it up if caught again. Its the only way they will learn.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Barry - you made what I hope was a typographical error in your post.

You stated, and I quote "I switch mind off now when driving."

So, which is more dangerous when driving - using a mobile phone or switching off your mind?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I sat behind the bus driver on the 40 minute high speed journey along the Amalfi coast this January. It's a narrow and scary road as many of you will know.

During the journey he took 3 calls and made one. All involved a conversation, one that involved him throwing the phone into his glovebox in anger. Did I feel scared? No, the guy was a good driver and knew what he was doing.

We do have to design laws though for those that have the concentration of a gnat. If would be nice to have one law for one and another for someone else with a greater ability but it is unfortunately impractical. 

Dick


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

12 month ban for first offence, 3 years for second and then double up for subsequent offences.

Keith


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## gholt417 (Jan 30, 2010)

Using a handheld telephone whilst driving is an offence that only the driver can commit and currently a 3pts and category A fine (50% of weekly wage) if a fixed penalty is not accepted.

It does get policed and loads of argumentative types end up in court disputing the offence but the threat of points and fine clearly isn't working as a deterrent. 

Maybe something other than fining might be more effective such as cleaning the side of roads in bright orange.


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## AndyCap (Jun 10, 2010)

My old man always warned me against drinking and driving. "you'll only spill it when you go round the corners" he said. ;-)


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

It just seems to becoming far too accepted to me.


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## stevethebeekeeper (Jan 23, 2011)

I hate to say it, but its too late no matter what fine you impose.

We have created a society of 'its my right', 'I should be allowed to do what I please'

'education' does not work. Unfortunately it is the society we now have created.

How long has drink driving been illegal, how many drink drive campaigns every year and socially unacceptable with a penalty. Yet it still happens day in day out.

How long has not wearing a seatbelt been illegal, drivers education with adverts and the like. But it still happens every day, even kids unstrapped.

I won't open the can of worms about speeding, cycling on pavements and littering:twisted: These things are now 'acceptable' to many of society and we all have a responsibility for what has been created.

In the early days, mobile phone enforcement was done by bodging existing legislation. Eventually government made specific legislation but by then it was too late. 

Combine that with no (well next to none) traffic patrol police officers anymore enforcing legislation then hey presto we have what we have.

'We' complained about traffic wardens and did nothing to save them, so we got parking attendants. In my opinion we were better off with traffic wardens.

'We' complain about being stopped by the police for motoring offenses, 'we pay their wages' 'you should be hunting for real criminals' etc etc. We got HATO's, Gatso cameras, council revenue generating with box junctions and bus lanes and cuts in traffic police. Again I would rather be stopped by the old bill than the surprise letter in the post.

Are we not getting the just rewards of what society has created?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I managed to get my phone 'paired' bluetooth to my Garmin Sat Nav. I thought this is the safe way to go.
When the first call came in I reached forward to press the 'accept' tab on the Garmin and it fell off the screen.!!! 
I realised this was a very dangerous situation to be in and didn't bother trying to retrieve the sat nav or answer the call. 

Our new car has Bluetooth built in and I am still awaiting the first call. All I have to do it press a button on the steering wheel but I bet I will be so shocked and press the wrong button to lose the call.

Ray.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Steve definitely has a bee in his bonnet about all this. :lol:

Incidentally, last week after 50 years of motoring I received my first ever "ticket" from the Police.

Overtook an excrutiatingly slow car driver who suddenly sped up when he/she realised being overtaken by a MH.

I just ran out of steam and ended up a yard the wrong side of the double whites. 

I had a split second to decide on whether to abort but didn't want to end up trapped on the wrong side of the road if the other driver decided also to brake.

Stealth traffic car spotted it, next minute blue flashing lights.

Hey ho! Just waiting for the inevitable letter to arrive from Police HQ in Carmarthen.


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

stevethebeekeeper said:


> I hate to say it, but its too late no matter what fine you impose.
> 
> We have created a society of 'its my right', 'I should be allowed to do what I please'
> 
> ...


Drink driving is considerably less than 40 years ago and now socially unacceptable i.e. middle class people caught will tend to have a drink problem. As for cycling, the rules were made years ago - look at the relative size of cars and lorries; you cannot park a modern car in a standard garage. Cyclists need to be better separated from vehicles. I agree with you about littering which has been brought about by local authority cuts and a requirement for people to eat on the move.

Having received a letter in the post on a few occasions, they were all a "fair cop". To me it takes the pressure of the police, none of the letters were a particular surprise.

The country does not have the money to pay more people on a policeman's wage to sit in a car and it would be politically unacceptable. You could try writing to your Police Commissioner.  or :lol: The police would be spending as much time ensuring that those caught were statistically ethnically balanced.

As well as DD, where there has been improvement is in the licensing and insuring of cars. The crushing of uninsured and untaxed cars, caught by technology is working. A few on here have found they need to be more diligent when dealing with DVLA. I remember walking home from work through a working class housing estate in the 80's and noticing that about half the cars did not have a tax disk. Similarly with speeding, there are courses rather than points which is seen as more acceptable (50% less likely to re-offend). Fining people and giving them points doesn't tend to alter their overall behaviour. The taking of people's time appears to be a better deterrent. Hence as I suggested earlier in the thread, taking the car off the road and ensuring an acceptable hands free kit was installed (not portable) and still working at the next MOT would help stop the problem happening again. Companies either have to have a hands free system in their vans or ensure that staff do not use their phones i.e. they would be forced to install a hands free kit if they wanted to contact their staff. The major suppliers of vans would just install the kit automatically. A day of watching crash test dummies disintegrate without seat belts may be effective for those caught without their belts on. If it is a parent caught then both parents would have to attend.


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

I would have the vehicle impounded for a period of one week, all costs to be paid by the driver. Company vehicles would also be impounded not matter if it was a small car or a 32ton juggernaut.

Should a driver be caught a second time the vehicle would impounded for a month.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

I am amazed, a long discussion about using a mobile phone in a car, but nobody has mentioned the still legal but even more dangerous tuning of the car radio. Worse still, using your IPod whilst driving. Oh, and telling the sat nav that you do not want to take the diversion for the tenth time (TomTom take note).
Modern vehicles are grossly overcomplicated to use. Actually using a mobile phone is the easy bit.
Gerry


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GerryD has a point.

Are we in danger of being Hypocritcal here? How much safer is using a hands free phone to using one normally in a car? Not much I reckon and in some cases probably worse.

You still have to faff on dialing the number or answering the call and no way are you concentrating on driving if your having an intense conversation with someone not in the car and unaware of whats going on in your vehicle. If your talking to a passenger and an incident or something comes up in the journey hopefully they are in tune to whats going on and will shut up. During a mobile phone conversation niether you or the person on the end of the phone are focusing on the journey.

Just because its legal (at the moment) doesnt make it right. If you have to make a call on the M1 then its probably just as safe to pick up the phone and put it to your ear than it is to dick around with a blue tooth set or headphone ear piece. Both are wrong IMO.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I'd ban smoking in a car whilst driving. How dangerous is smoke in your eyes and the possibility of a hot cigarette falling into your nether regions? Oh, but the government gets taxes from selling them don't they...?


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I basically agree with Zozzer. You need a penalty which will greatly inconvenience the offender. This will have a greater effect (in my view) than a Fine or Penalty Points.

I am one of the lucky ones that has the willpower to attend to the phone call when I have arrived somewhere.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

hands free means you are not looking at the mobile at all especially if its via Bluetooth like mine and its no different than talking to a passenger in the vehicle.

i don't think anyone as yet has mentioned the use of mobiles for texting while driving, you are discussing fines/penalty's for using them to make and receive calls, so what penalty for texting which is a greater risk than anything.



john


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

> *The-Cookies wrote: *hands free means you are not looking at the mobile at all especially if its via Bluetooth like mine and its no different than talking to a passenger in the vehicle.
> 
> i don't think anyone as yet has mentioned the use of mobiles for texting while driving, you are discussing fines/penalty's for using them to make and receive calls, so what penalty for texting which is a greater risk than anything.
> 
> john


Sorry John but I disagree. I dont think it is the same as having a conversation with a passenger and there are rising statistics to prove it.

http://www.brake.org.uk/news/1211-mobilephones2014

*"Studies have shown the risk of being in a crash that causes injury is increased four times for drivers on both hand-held and hands-free phones [2], with reactions 30% slower than driving at the UK drink drive limit, and 50% slower than under normal conditions [3]. *

Ive done it myself. Ok it might be a business call or a call of a technical nature where you have to think and concentrate on what your saying to the person on the other end who has no idea or concern that your doing 70 up the M1. I remember I used to frequently miss junctions or turn offs when doing this. Cant just be me. As I said earlier a passenger conversation is completely different. You can pause between sentences etc as the passenger is aware of whats going on. Much more relaxed than a mobile conversation.

Nobody _needs_ to be on the phone when driving full stop.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Kids are the biggest distraction in cars. I used to ferry them around as a cab years ago. Threw several out when they became very disruptive. 
Luckily it was peeing with rain each time so hope it taught them something.

Ray.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

4maddogs - I totally agree with you about the dangers of smoking whilst driving.

Just imagine the rigmarole of getting a *** out of a packet, finding the lighter, then lighting it, then putting down the lighter somewhere then smoking the ***, getting rid of the ash and then eventually stubbing out and disposing of the ***-end.

Even more dangerous is the roll-your-own brigade - the mind boggles at the sheer complexity involved.

All this needs two hands and eyes - all of which should be concentrating on driving.

Do I feel sorry for the can't-go-without-a-***-for-five-minutes crowd?

Not if it puts me and mine at risk.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Just a cotton pickin' minute pippin. 8O 

There are plenty of drivers on the road who have no knowledge of the phrase 'to concentrate'. I have the occasional smoke while driving, only because I can be behind the wheel for several hours. I never smoke in the m/home at any other time and I never need to smoke in the car.

The problem with many British drivers is that many British drivers are just stupid or selfish (or both). That is the way our society has been steadily heading for some time now.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

like 747 and many more on here who consider ourselves to be more competent drivers, i do concentrate ,if the phone rings i answer it hands free ,whatever it is, its short and to the point not a long drawn out conversation mostly "sorry cant speak much can you call back in 10 minutes "or "be home in whatever time", agree there's people who use it day in and out in long drawn out conversations that's when minds start drifting thinking of times ,dates, and the like.


have a total ban that's OK with me but does this also include solo police drivers, paramedics etc whose concentration must also be compromised while using their phones.

while a phone is available texting is the real danger,we see this every day round here.

we have a 20 mph speed limit round the local streets here, as yet as far as i know not one conviction for speeding as there are no police to enforce this, most didn't keep to 30 never mind 20, likewise with phones i can go out any day and see 5 to 10 people using their phones, because the odds on being caught are so small, police don't hang around on estates waiting, they wait where they know they are probably guaranteed to catch something. 

john


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## wendyandjohn (Feb 14, 2009)

I totally agree with BarryD, loading a CD, changing channels/sound on the radio and looking or fiddling with the Sat Nav are all equally dangerous. Even children arguing on the back seat. Phones are not the only distraction IMHO :?


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