# Winnebago Brave 31? Please help us!



## foggyparrot (Aug 28, 2006)

As you all know, we have been looking for an RV for some time now. We have been offered a '94 Winnie Brave 31' and would invite comments (please, please) on this as an option for us as potential RV'ers.

The Winnie is a 1994 31ft with a 6.5 Chevy Turbo Diesel. It is coming from a dealer with a full 1 year warranty, 1 years MOT, 1 Years Gas certificate and 6 months Road Tax for the stately price of £25750 (after some considerable bartering!).

The vehicle is in what appears to be excellent order, both mechanically and aesthetically. It has what appear to be all of the usual refinements, Onan, Oyster self seeking Sat, very upmarket reversing camera system, solar panels and full 240v conversion. It has done about 75,000 miles. It has 6 new tyres and appears to drive exceptioally well.

We really need to know if this is a reasonable deal for both the age and mileage. I can't expect any one to coment on condition as this is a personal consideration but need to know if there is anything specific we need to address or look out for on this model. The dealer (understandably) will not comment on economy but we wondered if anyone has the Brave with the same running gear and could comment on the expected mpg.

Also, please can anybody reassure Jill about the size of the vehicle for use on UK roads and ease of access to the usual run of the mill camp sites.

Any information about this particular vehicle would be worth a pie and a pint when we do eventually meet you on our travels.

Thanks in anticipation,

Mike and Jill


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi mike and jill, if you go here >>HERE<<<

Its the winnebago site and is the brochure for your model, its a 7.5 meg download in PDF format. You can also download plumbing and electrical drawings as well.

Mines a 30' with a petrol so not really relevant to you, however the quality is the same, which is normally very good, they last for years, I believe winnebago claim that any part for any of their RV's is still available.

The chevy diesel was fitted to quite a few RV's and the only problem I can remember that anyone has mentioned is the waste gate on the turbo (if you have a turbo) rusting up, its a simple job to free it.

Can you use it fulltime? that up to you, some people fulltime in a 21' european, only you know how much room you need, for us hanging space was important, which is why we ended up with a D/slide.

No real problems on the road, and very few with sites, Keith (kands) has a simular sized one and he seems to be somewhere different every weekend. :lol: His is also a chevy diesel so he can advise better than me on that, and on MPG as well. I would imagine in the region of 15MPG

As for price I don't know, all RV's in good condition hold their price and 25K seems OK, but check ebay and some dealers to see what prices they want for similar RV's.

Olley


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

I,m not a RV owner,But if your asking about mpg you may be looking at the wrong type of vehicle,(no offence intented)
Gary


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## 96312 (Sep 16, 2005)

I would love to have an American RV - the only thing that stops me is that I can barely get my 20.5ft Mclouis on the drive.
I'd have nowhere to park it.

Steve


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

A nice choice and seems like a good price for the year and condition. 15mpg seems about the norm for that size of diesal. I own a 38' Newmar which we live in on our property but dont drive (at present no HGV licence) has a big petrol engine which I am told only does 8mpg on petrol ( frightening) but if it was converted to LPG would do between 15-18mpg. We bought it because it was the perfect option on a site where planning would probably apply for a caravan type mobile home. We have all the comforts of a once, top of the range RV when it was new in 92. I honestly dont think I could move back into a house now. The wife has the cleaning done in a fraction of the time it once took indoors and to cap it all we have that feeling of being on holiday all the time even if we are not. We still have our 7m Bessacarr for travelling. Ideally I should sell them both and get a nice under 7.5 tonne winnie or similar, maybe one day. The only thing I couldnt purchase for the Newmar was Insurance for fire and theft only. Every firm I tried stated that because it was laid up they wouldnt insure it. That included NFU, Safegaurd, Comfort etc. How come mobile homes can be insured and not laid up RVs. Anybody know different please contact me.


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## foggyparrot (Aug 28, 2006)

sersol said:


> I,m not a RV owner,But if your asking about mpg you may be looking at the wrong type of vehicle,(no offence intented)
> Gary


Thanks Gary,

But the question was asked for a reason. It has taken a long time to find what appears to be the 'right' vehicle and I know that RV economy is contentious. I couldn't actually give a tinkers cuss what the economy will end up being if I have the right vehicle. MPG is not a main budgetary consideration but when you are considering doing the miles we intend to do, 2 more miles to the gallon can make a big difference to your annual spend.

The most important thing for us is that we have a reliable, useable, spacious and well equipped MH. The trade off, in my humble opinion, against an 'economical' European motorhome is that I am (hopefully) less likely to have to spend five or six hundred pounds a year in extraneous maintenance costs (I have two very good friends who consistently have to spend in excess of £200 every time their respective Europeans need an MOT, one who has had a complete engine rebuild after only 85000 miles and another who has had two gearboxes in three years). I don't believe for one moment that there will not be some costs involved in keeping an RV running but I have yet to find someone who has spent as much money in as short a space of time on an RV.

Yes, I do care about MPG to the extent that two similar vehicles with similar equipment levels, similar layouts and similar build quality might return 14 and 16 mpg respectively. The 16 mpg vehicle will save me £275 per year if I am doing 5000 miles at current prices. That equates to two tyres (almost)! Why, in that case, would I buy a 14mpg vehicle.

Going back to the original question: I would buy the 14 mpg vehicle if it suited my needs better and I could be convinced that the overall likelihood that this vehicle was likely to cost me less money to keep on the road.

When you are thinking about full timimg for at least two years and taking in as much of the country as you can in that period (with the odd excursion overseas) having a working budget, and sticking to it, are all important. Any research that can be done MUST be done. This is not something I have taken lightly and consider that an RV is the ONLY viable option based on the information I have gleaned. I assumed that asking the question on the forum would generate a number of answers based upon experience that you guys have all had. There is nothing better than first hand knowledge of pitfalls or, conversely, the delights, of one vehicle over another.

The question, therefore, was aimed at those people that either have experience of that vehicle type or have a good knowledge of the RV market in general and particularly those that either cover the miles or are full timing. Not, no offence intended, those people that have an opinion, biased or otherwise, against RVs.

Mike


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Mike,

For the records, my credentials are I own a 1994 Winnebago Itasca Suncruiser, which at first glance is the the same as a Brave.

The deal you are being offered sounds very good. The mileage whilst low for the engine is a little high for what you see for sale. You will of course appreciate that not many people get in an RV and travel widely - some do so please no one come back and say otherwise!

Like all vehicles if it has higher mileage then you need to look a little further. Did you go under the RV with your boiler suit on and check out the running gear? Seems daft but if it was used in the US or the UK in the wrong area there may be some rusty bits that will cost to replace.

Have you gone down the outside and looked for delamination of the panels? If you see the odd bubble dont worry thats life. Have you looked inside every cupboard to see for water leaking? Crucial for every potential MH or Caravan owner.

Have you or a friend experience of diesel engines? Make sure it sounds correct. I know diesels will go on for ever - but only if they have been looked after.

Do all the bits work as far as you can tell? Electric step does everything it's supposed to. Awning working and not damaged. Heater, AC all work OK, Onan has sensible hours and starts OK?

So assuming you have read all of this, what is my opinion.

Bloody bargain if the dealer is reputable and all above and more has been fufilled. These babies sell for about £30k from a dealer and that is without the Oyster self seek which costs about £2k and I am jealous because I want self seek sat!

What would I do now? Beg, plead and offer another pie and pint for a local RV owner to meet you and go over the unit for you. Unlike other MH's this is a BIG purchase. Forget the amount of money you are paying which may or may not be a lot in your life. The problem with RV's if making sure you have someone capable of looking after it should there be a problem. Not always easy, I am lucky a friend who runs a garage said when I told him about mine 'great, that chevy 454 is a brilliant engine, I used to tune and drag race them' So I may end up with the fastest milk cart (RV) in the West (of England). My first meet at Shepton Mallet proved to me that even the simplest of things can be looked at incorrectly by we the inexperienced! The knowledge of an old hand at RV is worth a lot!

Is the garage near you in Lincoln or somewhere else in the country? Let us folks know and I am sure some kind soul will offer help.

Regards

Chris


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi Mike,as I said there was NO offence meant or implied,either to you or your choice of motor home.I have read your second post & understand your concerns regards mpg.
I am in no way against RV's one member of my family owns 1 & also my oldest friend has 1. This may of be interest to you with ref:to running cost(apart from fuel) I know of some one who,after a short period of time owning the vehicle (RV)had repair bills of in excess £3500,a little more than £200 to get those "economical european" through an mot.
However we can all be unlucky with the choice of vehicle.Hope your search proves successful & you enjoy motorhoming.Please remember not ALL posts are a knock at you. Ask a question & get answers.
Regards
Gary


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## 99181 (May 12, 2006)

hi mike....i have a rv c class with 7.5 engine it has a very high milage but that did not put me off buying her,had a comprestion test done prior to gas conversion and it was spot on been to south of france in her no probs.as for running costs i don't think about it, you have to spend your money on something i choose to fill the tank some pay £100 per week to follow football,others run racing cars ,some make rockets others on wine woman and song,just put things in perspective and don't worry about the other one doing 2 miles per gall more go for it mike

dave


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Mike
Well where to start mate???
I know... if you let me know who the dealer is I will go over there and buy it :lol: :lol: :lol: 
A couple of folks have made reference to me and my RV here so I thought I had better come up with a decent reply, so here we go (and I hope it is decent :lol: )
My first recommendation would be to contact Duncan at Star Spangled Spanner (he is a member of MHF damondunc) and he provides mobile servicing. I am sure that for a reasonable fee he would come over and give a professional opinion on the Winnie. It almost sounds to good to be true especially with all those wonderful toys, but don't let the toys blind you mate.
We have a Rockwood Regent, 30 foot RV on a Chevy P30 Chassis and 6.5 litre turbo diesel. To answer the obvious question first, the mpg will be between 14 - 16 depending upon your driving style, cruising speed and of course the terrain. The motor is plenty powerful enough to pull the van and the gearboxes are strong. We have charged up very steep hills in the Peak District and found no problems in that area. The engine being front mounted does get noisy when it is revving and can be a bit tiring, so do remember this, although I am sure that something can be done to quieten it down a bit, it is very agricultural.....
Servicing is very important on these chassis, and with good servicing and maintenance they will go on for ages, as previously said. Winnebago are a good manufacturer and the support for there products is better than most, so that is a good starting point.
We bought ours with a years warranty that appeared to have been printed on used toilet tissue, so do not take to much notice of that little sales gimmick..... We reported a failed steering box and power booster after owning the RV for less than a month and the warrantee company claimed that the fault must have been known about before the sale?????
It was actually discovered when the silicone sealant that had been plastered around the steering box gave up the ghost. We were then quoted £1500 for a new steering box so as previously said, RV's can get expensive when things go wrong.
To me the upside of an RV over a Euro MH is that it is big and comfortable, mechanically it performs wonderfully (if not cheaply) and should, with proper care last for a very long time. It also makes me smile every time I drive it and that is priceless to me.......
I am sure that I can waffle on for ages but I will leave it there and say that I am more than happy to chat further to you if you want, and you are welcome to PM me, I am not an expert by any means but I have learned the hard way, so may be able to give you some pointers.
As I said at the start, I would get it checked over by a competent technician and then, if it is a good one, bite the dealers hand off....

I hope this has been helpful and good luck Mike

Keith

I hope that you get the RV in time to come to the Bring and Buy meet in Mansfield, as it is not to far from you and would be a great shakedown with lots of friendly guys on hand for advice, and a laugh :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

> some pay £100 per week to follow football,others run racing cars ,some make rockets others on wine woman and song,


And the rest just waste their money :lol: 
geo


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## 91645 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Mike and Jill:
We are driving a 1997 model Winnebago Brave 25ft. If you want to know some german market prices check with www.mwom.com. I do not know your german skills bot look for "gebrauchte " amerikanische wohnwagen. There are several but check the text there is one for instance with a damaged engine. If you cannot find anything that looks like water spots and the like and also check the waste tanks for any leaks ( I have a problem at the moment with the black water tank). Check the Onan generator if you have one: mine failed a couple of weeks ago. Functional check furnace and water heater both gas and electric for a while. Same for AC. The diesel engine is good but has some weak spots. You have the first generation of electronically controlled injection pumpS4-5067 if I am not mistaken. The controls are not problematic except one item which is located on the pump itself : the pmd or sometimes called the fsd ( fuel solenoid drive). Mine failed. The cure is buy a new one in the USA and relocate this thing. I would invest in this one. Also buy a couple of fuel filters and learn how to change yourself a fuel filter if you happen to fill bad fuel in a remote area. Same applies to an oil and air filter as well as a belt drive. Also invest in two other items a boost pressure and an exhaust temperature gauge.You should realise that you drive a little bit an exotic engine and you should be prepared to find out yourself up to a certain point how to deal with some of the weak points of your engine. I became member of a US based web site " The Diesel Page" and I learned a lot about the engine. They issue some fine literature on your engine. Other than those things it is basically a sound engine:
Wish you a lot of happy hours in your Brave: we do.
John Bouwens


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## 100056 (Jul 15, 2006)

Did the dealer point out that the '12-month Warrantee' is a back to base only warrantee. I am not saying that it is, but 99% of dealer warrantees are. Not much use if your in southern Spain for instance, but sounds good on the advertising blurb.

Also you will probably find that the dealer has added a hefty commission to the final price, usually in the region of £4000+. Looking at the year and mileage I would say it is greatly overpriced.

I have a 1997 RV for sale, OK it's not a Winnebago and it's petrol but it's in good condition and only 51000 miles on the clock and all for only £26950.

PM me if you want more info.


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

Price wise sounds OK especially with a years warranty. 

I have been searching for an RV and finally bought one in Florida but got all the importing hassle. 

You seem to have done your searching and I would now go for it. 

I used my RV in Florida (ford 460 petrol engine) with the genny running a lot to power the twin A/C as I drove and did a 1000 miles and got 6 mpg but US gallons (plus had a heavy right foot out there while the fuel was cheap :roll: )

I reckon you'll get 14 mpg. 

I have taken on board the fuel is going to be expensive but the RV suit us perfectly.


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## 101276 (Oct 6, 2006)

*dont worry about size*

been bobbing about europe in a 40ft motorhome with car on a frame
for 6 years, no problem, just think ahead.
get yourself the acsi camping cd rom has thousands of sites around europe with a lot of pictures so you can see were you are going and a route planner to each site.

Steve


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Steve. Just been checking out their sites on the Algarve. Do they do special rates for staying a month as in spain. The sites look a little pricey for a long stay if not.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Well we have been to the Bring and Buy Meet this weekend and Jill and Mike had bought and brought their new RV to the meet. She is absolutely gorgeous, a brilliant buy.

stew


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

OFF TOPIC but

Monacosteve

An interesting point you have raised re ACSI card and camping cheques.

We previously were caravanner's and used both the above for off peak payment but have had trouble getting our largish caravan into some site in Europe.

We do tend to be guided by sites with good dog facilities so suppose they are busy so can make the pitches smaller but would love to think we could get on and in with our RV's.

Maybe if it possible could a list of these site be made that could cope with RV's

=============================================

Tony

La Manga >>>>HERE<<<<
is way down south in murcia but has good weather and very keen (negotiable) winter rates.


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## 101276 (Oct 6, 2006)

*acsi cd rom*

go to there website http://www.eurocampings.co.uk/en/

buy the cd it has pictures and desciptions of thousands of campsites
all over europe also pitch sizes great piece of kit has its own routeplanner


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks for that john. I was in fact asking about sites on the Algarve in Portugal. I have already marked La manga for a visit in the future. Talking about spain we stayed on a cracking site in Benidorm called EL Raco, perfect for the town which was within walking distance. Dont think its very RV friendly though, although it seemed to have some reasonable size pitches round the outside.


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## 101276 (Oct 6, 2006)

*cd rom*

sorry go to website http://www.eurocampings.co.uk/en/
then click on shop cd cost £9.99


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

TonyHunt said:


> Thanks for that john. I was in fact asking about sites on the Algarve in Portugal. I have already marked La manga for a visit in the future. Talking about spain we stayed on a cracking site in Benidorm called EL Raco, perfect for the town which was within walking distance. Dont think its very RV friendly though, although it seemed to have some reasonable size pitches round the outside.


Sorry for double post Steve

and whoops miss the Portugal bit :roll: Tony, it's just LM had plenty of large vehicles on site when we were there.


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## 96105 (Aug 23, 2005)

hi this type  HERE

RAY


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