# Just picked up new Dethleffs motorhome but.....



## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

We finally picked up our new Dethleffs Advantage at the weekend which is based on a 3 litre Fiat Ducato. We asked about Fiat judder before we purchased it & were reassured that it would not be a problem with our model. However, since getting it home, we have noticed that even in reverse there is a judder, which could well be down to us getting used to the clutch or it may in fact be a problem - only time will tell. When we rang the dealership today to discuss this & other issues - they informed us that the vehicle side of things is nothing to do with them. Is this the case? Also, prior to collecting a new van is it normal for a full engine service check to be completed - you see I thought it was, ( & was certainly told by the sales team that it would be done) but we have received no documentation to indicate that this has been completed, & they are now being a tad evasive (putting it politely). 
Any advice would be appreciated as Im not sure what info we should have been provided with.

Thanks

Sarah


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

sarahessex said:


> We finally picked up our new Dethleffs Advantage at the weekend which is based on a 3 litre Fiat Ducato. We asked about Fiat judder before we purchased it & were reassured that it would not be a problem with our model. However, since getting it home, we have noticed that even in reverse there is a judder, which could well be down to us getting used to the clutch or it may in fact be a problem - only time will tell. When we rang the dealership today to discuss this & other issues - they informed us that the vehicle side of things is nothing to do with them. Is this the case? Also, prior to collecting a new van is it normal for a full engine service check to be completed - you see I thought it was, ( & was certainly told by the sales team that it would be done) but we have received no documentation to indicate that this has been completed, & they are now being a tad evasive (putting it politely).
> Any advice would be appreciated as Im not sure what info we should have been provided with.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


So the dealer didn't sell you the engine, gearbox and chassis :?: 8O :roll: :


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## 96410 (Sep 30, 2005)

Problems with the cab and chassis are normal dealt with by Fiat and not your dealer.
Your van should have had a PDI which you have been charged for, this is to make sure your van is fit for the road.
i would think your van will suffer from reverse judder as most do, and it does feel like you are using the clutch wrong but thats how it feels, Your van will have to go back to Fiat for a gearbox mod.


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

subaru said:


> Problems with the cab and chassis are normal dealt with by Fiat and not your dealer.


But your contract is with supplying dealer, not with Fiat - as TDG rightly said.


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

Whilst a Fiat dealer will normally deal with the Fiat side of things, your contract is with the dealer - they are responsible for the whole shooting match. It is a common thing for them all to say however - but don't let them off the hook


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Make sure your dealer has reset the warranty on the Fiat side of things to start on the Registration date. This will ensure that you can get warranty repairs and the services of Fiat Camper Assist. If you have any problems take the V5C to any Fiat main agent and they can reset the warranty date with Fiat UK.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

subaru said:


> Your van will have to go back to Fiat for a gearbox mod.


Oh no it wont. For the time being anyway fiat are not fixing 3L 160 multi jet vehicles. fiat say there's nothing wrong with them. 8O Yeah right.

steve


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

Solwaybuggier said:


> subaru said:
> 
> 
> > Problems with the cab and chassis are normal dealt with by Fiat and not your dealer.
> ...


Everyone like subaru who, in their mind, separates the chassis from the habitation is perpetuating the problem of letting the dealers of the hook :x 
If the dealers think they have no responsibility for the chassis then only pay them for the habitation part 8)


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

TDG said:


> Solwaybuggier said:
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> > subaru said:
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When you pick up your new MH the dealer should have made sure that your local Fiat dealer has done the Chassis/Engine PDI or whatever they call it.

The Fiat dealer will have dated and stamped the service history booklet and filled in any relevant documents.

You actually have quite a number of Warranty agreements ranging from Fiats side through the M.H add ons fridge, cooker, toilet, water pumps etc.

Despite what is being said above a Chassis/engine problem is in this case a Fiat problem

Very few MH dealers have the ability to repair engines

If I have a mechanical problem with my Peugeot base I will take it to a Peugeot garage

They then key in Chass no etc and the vehicles complete service history loads.

I hope this helps


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

There is some danger in confusing warranties with the dealer's legal obligations under the Sale of Goods act etc.

As mentioned there are various Manufacturers warranties that come with the vehicle and these will usually be the easiest way to resolve any problems. However the dealers legal responsibilities are in no way affected by the Manufacturers warranties


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Waggy said:


> There is some danger in confusing warranties with the dealer's legal obligations under the Sale of Goods act etc.
> 
> As mentioned there are various Manufacturers warranties that come with the vehicle and these will usually be the easiest way to resolve any problems. However the dealers legal responsibilities are in no way affected by the Manufacturers warranties


Yep.

Wups


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## framptoncottrell (Jan 6, 2006)

I have the Which? _Your guide to consumer rights_ in front of me. It's a bit long-winded to reproduce here, but basically your contract is with the dealer, not the manufacturer. It is up to the dealer to get the manufacturer to fix the problem, not you.
I'll just quote one paragraph:

'If you know there's a problem, tell the seller straightaway and let it know whether you want to reject the item or have it repaired or replaced. Don't use the product - you mustn't do anything to suggest you are happy to accept it or you may lose your right to reject....Make sure you confirm in writing that you are rejecting the goods, that they are available for collection and that you expect a full refund...'

There's a lot more so see if you can buy a copy or read it in your local library.

Dr (musical, not medical) Roy


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

framptoncottrell said:


> I have the Which? _Your guide to consumer rights_ in front of me. It's a bit long-winded to reproduce here, but basically your contract is with the dealer, not the manufacturer. It is up to the dealer to get the manufacturer to fix the problem, not you.
> I'll just quote one paragraph:
> 
> 'If you know there's a problem, tell the seller straightaway and let it know whether you want to reject the item or have it repaired or replaced. Don't use the product - you mustn't do anything to suggest you are happy to accept it or you may lose your right to reject....Make sure you confirm in writing that you are rejecting the goods, that they are available for collection and that you expect a full refund...'
> ...


I think Roy has encapsulated the problem with a motor home and the sale of goods. You can't find the problems unless you *continue* to use it.

So what often happens is you take it back to the dealers for what are minor problems but only find the real snags, that would have led you to reject the MH, after you have used it a lot.


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## 108370 (Nov 20, 2007)

sallytrafic said:


> framptoncottrell said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Which? _Your guide to consumer rights_ in front of me. It's a bit long-winded to reproduce here, but basically your contract is with the dealer, not the manufacturer. It is up to the dealer to get the manufacturer to fix the problem, not you.
> ...


True , BUT , they are still responsible for the whole vehicle , and if a problem becomes apparent then you must not use the vehicle from that point on , regardless of the amount it has used previously.

It , to me , is very clear , your dealer is responsible and it is up to him to deal with the warranty issues for any part of the vehicle.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

reeventu said:


> sallytrafic said:
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> > framptoncottrell said:
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I understand what you are saying

But I'm sure there are two separate warranty documents

On hand over the MH dealer gives you two seperate folders of documents ...

The vehicle servicing record which is nothing to do with the dealer at all and everything to do with Fiat Ford etc ....just like your new car

The Habitation and add on warranties which is everything to do with the dealer..... Just like your new caravan

A clear example of the above is the Juddergate thread where Fiat is seen as the problem.

Wups


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## 108370 (Nov 20, 2007)

Wupert said:


> reeventu said:
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> > sallytrafic said:
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It is nothing to do with the warranties that you are given , it is, as already said , to do with sale of goods.

Contact the supplier of the complete van, they took your money and the contract is with them, not Fiat or whoever.

It is up to your supplier to seek a solution with his supplier not you.

If he asks you to to take it to Fiat get that in writing first and confirm that you are only acting as his agent by taking the vehicle to them on his behalf.

Do not enter any discussion with the Fiat dealer , that is not your contract.

surely there is a lawyer amongst us that can better advise /


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Reeventu is spot on, it is the supplying dealer who must sort any problems, he must supply you goods that are "Fit for Purpose".
When I sell a commercial vehicle, although my company will supply the chassis cab only, once we have fitted a body, or other requirements, we become responsible for the complete vehicle, regardless of who supplied what!
Tinhut


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Tinhuttraveler said:


> Reeventu is spot on, it is the supplying dealer who must sort any problems, he must supply you goods that are "Fit for Purpose".
> When I sell a commercial vehicle, although my company will supply the chassis cab only, once we have fitted a body, or other requirements, we become responsible for the complete vehicle, regardless of who supplied what!
> Tinhut


I think we could be discussing two different issues.

Sale of Goods and Warranty

I have never had to involve the MH dealer or MH builder if I have had a base vehicle problem.

Let me put it another way

If I break down in Europe I will take my MH to a Fiat Ford etc garage for repair.

If I have a problem with the habitation side I will take it to the nearest Swift Hymer etc dealer/Agent.

You cant hold a MH dealer responsible for a windscreen wiper motor failure.

Why waste time going to the dealer.

If what is being said on this thread is correct why is everyone on the Juddergate dealing with Fiat.

If the dealer has knowingly sold you a faulty base vehicle then it is another matter.

Wups


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## 108370 (Nov 20, 2007)

Wupert said:


> Tinhuttraveler said:
> 
> 
> > Reeventu is spot on, it is the supplying dealer who must sort any problems, he must supply you goods that are "Fit for Purpose".
> ...


It does not knowingly (IMO) have to be faulty, any remedial work is the responsibilty of the supplying company if a fault develops under warranty.

Once outside of warranty it would be different.

As I understood it the vehicle was bought on the basis of no known problems ,( specifically juddering) there is a problem therefore it must surely be down to the supplying dealer.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

reeventu said:


> Wupert said:
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> > Tinhuttraveler said:
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I agree with all of what is being said re sale of goods

My experience has been to take my MH straight to our local Fiat dealers

They put the chassis numbers into their computers and bingo

They have the complete record of my vehicle and get on with the mod and heater replacement.

My MH dealer doesnt even know I've had a problem.

Wups


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

*Dethleffs New Motorhome update*

Thank you for all of your replies regarding the Fiat Judder - however since then we have been back to the dealer who are still saying that we need to go to the Fiat dealer. 
However we have also had other issues - not sure if im allowed to name the dealer until we have given them the opportunity to rectify as other members on here have had a positive experience with them.
1. We bought, what we were led to believe was a 2008 model, however on the dethleffs information that we have since received in the pack the van was actually built in 2007 ( so were not sure if it is a 2008 model - will be contacting Dethleffs to check this)
2. We visited the van prior to finally commiting as we had a pre sale wobble, and whilst there we noticed that there was an amount of rust behind the wheel , we were told that this often happened but the van would have a full fiat inspection prior to us collecting it. On saturday, when we collected the van we asked for the documentation & we were told it would follow on. Today we have been told that the van has not had anything done since it left the Dethleffs factory - all they have done is to check the oil & water.

Whilst the van meets our needs I feel that £49,000 is a lot of money to be spending to receive this level of service & where to go from here Im not sure. These are all small issues compared to the mechanical faults that some people experience, and I only hope that they are prepared to rectify them when they return from the NEC, which is where they all are at the moment.

Any further advice would be appreciated -

Sarah


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

Wupert said:


> TDG said:
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> 
> > Solwaybuggier said:
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Very true but they have the *responsibility* to arrange to get it repaired :roll:


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

subaru said:


> Problems with the cab and chassis are normal dealt with by Fiat and not your dealer.
> Your van should have had a PDI which you have been charged for, this is to make sure your van is fit for the road.
> i would think your van will suffer from reverse judder as most do, and it does feel like you are using the clutch wrong but thats how it feels, Your van will have to go back to Fiat for a gearbox mod.


That is true, and when we had our service agency, not in the motor industry, it was the case, but ultimately the buck stops with the dealer, so says the sale of goods act. The dealer we bought our motorhome from told us the same and as they are not Mercedes appointed mechanic I am happy to go along with that,unless there were a major problem then back to the dealer I would go and bend his ear! he can't pass the buck he took the money. 
Wobby
Wobby


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

The problem is though is that there was no PDI - only an oil & water check, amongst the other issues I have listed above.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

sarahessex said:


> The problem is though is that there was no PDI - only an oil & water check, amongst the other issues I have listed above.


The bottom line is the dealer (seller) is ultimately responsible for fixing _*everything*_ that goes wrong with your vehicle. They may choose to do this by directing you to the relevant agent for this if they do not have the expertise to effect repair themselves. It is better if you arrange this at your own convenience. This is pretty bog standard.

The Dealer, *should* do the habitation PDI but to get the vehicle registered and the warranty started for the base vehicle, it is my understanding that they choose a Fiat/Peugeot dealer (probably local to them) who will be responsible for checking the drivey bit over and stamp the log book accordingly with the date of purchase (PDI). This validates your warranty.

Usually your dealer will have taken it to this garage to get all that sorted out. If they did and the garage did do it and and forgot to stamp the book (happened with one of ours!!) then its a simple matter to get the logbook to them to fix. Or if you are feeling really miffed send it to dealer to sort out, usually the long way for a shortcut IMHO!!

If no PDI was carried out by the garage you have two options

1 Take it back to dealer and tell them to sort it out!
2. Circumvent the inevitable delays, excuses, sob stories and possibly downright lies and take it to the garage who was supposed to do it and get them to sort it out!! Oh and while you are there point out any additional items which require attention.

Warranties are in *addition* to your statutory rights under sale of goods act and do not replace them.

So the choice is yours and neither of them are without some hassle i am afraid, but good luck, hope you get things sorted soon.


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Thank you for all your comments so far - we have taken them on board & are writing our response to the company as I type! It is reassuring to know that if you ask there is advice available.

Sarah


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Earlier this year I bought an unregistered van that it turns out was originally built in 2007 - however it was the spec we wanted and the price was heavily discounted.
But it meant I could afford what I wanted, if it had been an undiscounted 2009 build model I couldn't have done.

The only concern was the reset of the warranty to the registration date, but that is being sorted out by the importers.

I hope.


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

sarahessex said:


> The problem is though is that there was no PDI - only an oil & water check, amongst the other issues I have listed above.


May be worth doubling checking on this. My Swift was PDI'd by a Fiat dealer in Hull, close to the Swift factory where it was built.

I don't know whether they would PDI it before converting it or after. To some extent it could easily be done before, as the only bits that Fiat are interested in are already there and are unaffected by the conversion. The service and warranty book that came with my MH has been stamped with the PDI date.

Regards the model/year issue. The NEC show is currently displaying the 2010 models, so it is quite reasonable that your 2008 model could have been built in 2007.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

sarahessex said:


> The problem is though is that there was no PDI - only an oil & water check, amongst the other issues I have listed above.


This info changes my tack completely.

Your New Fiat has to have its PDI done by a Fiat dealer for Fiats warranty to be valid.

Your Fiat service book should be signed and stamped and dated by Fiat

When you say new van are you saying brand new or new to you.

Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Sorry double click

The red wine is working well

Wups


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

philoaks said:


> sarahessex said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is though is that there was no PDI - only an oil & water check, amongst the other issues I have listed above.
> ...


Hi Phil

Its done as soon as the Reg No is issued for the vehicle

The base vehicle cover starts from close to that date

Wups


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

Wupert said:


> philoaks said:
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> > sarahessex said:
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Hi Wups,

Not sure what's gone on with mine then! The PDI was done in April 08 (book stamped and signed by Fiat dealer in Hull). I think it then went into Swift for conversion.

I bought it in August 2008 and it was registered on the 21st September 2008. Fiat warranty was then reset to 21st September by my local Fiat dealership (Lee and Turner!).

Phil


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

philoaks said:


> Wupert said:
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> > philoaks said:
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Thats perfectly normal, they do two stages I think. One of them is to do with V55 to get it registered and was also told that was when they check everything is ok as the chassis could have been lying around for a period before it was built on.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Hi Phil


My dealer as well. 

It seems that L&T did the full Fiat PDI as soon as your MH was given its Reg No 

Wups


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