# oh no - GAS (zzzzz)



## 89827 (May 1, 2005)

I would have continued the thread that included this:-

>>1. there would be deaths ask any anaesthetist 
>>2. The gas would cause explosions and fire most cases are in wild camping fridge pilot light ! In theatre when gas is used they need extreme precaution to prevent.

but the last post was in May.

After 9 months in France (5 wild camping) I am now back in the UK for a MOT and a refit. I'm also reconsidering the question of you-know-what. Why? Because I have talked with three people who are either convinced they've been gassed themselves, or who know others who have.

I have to say that up till now I have been a sceptic because of points (1) and (2). But then someone recently informed me that not all anaesthetics are inflammable nowadays, so that leaves just (1).

Has anyone here heard any report of the type of gas actually used in these attacks?

A quick google reveals several candidates:

a) Nitrous oxide is a very safe and popular agent still utilized by dentists today. It is much less toxic than alternatives, such as chloroform, with far less risk of explosion than ether. The main use for N2O is usually as a mild sedative and analgesic. It helps to allay anxiety that many patients may have toward dental treatment, and it offers some degree of painkilling ability.

http://www.atlantadentist.com/Atlanta_Nitrous_Oxide.html

b) chloroform: Breathing chloroform can cause dizziness, fatigue, and headaches.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts6.html

c) ether-based narcotic sprays

http://www.motorcaravanners.org.uk/NGA.htm

Which do you think those 'gas detectors' deal with?

Perhaps anaestetics are only hazardous if you administer the as in concentrated form via a mask. Maybe. Does anyone here actually know an anaesthetist?

(currently being thrown off the library pooter)
-Steve Wilson


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

We still have not had anyone who has been gassed post in this forum, so until then, I for one will not believe or worry.

Ralph


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I expect unless we have a seance we won't hear from anyone that has been directly gassed. But I too would really like to get to the point where I know it to be either true or false just so the missus does not have to stay up all night guarding me while I sleep.


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, 

You will never get an answer if its true or false, because its a urban mith ? are we really suggesting that these would be scum bags are going to go to a medical gas supplier and purchase one of the gasses suggested above and then carry the bottle in the back of there ? car then get it out connect a hose push it through the fridge air vent ?? and deliver the correct quantity for the correct number of occupance ?? come on how would know who was in the MH and can you actually purchase narcotic gas ? over the counter. the permutations are endless.

While i am sure people have been robbed and will continue to be robbed hopefully without any violence, i do find it very very difficult top believe that they are gassed, albeit that doesn't detract from the fact that you need to be careful where you park and i am sure that robberies happen more on the main routes than they do in the countryside, albeit there are opportunist thieves about everywhere and if there are a lot of refugees/illegals don't stop as there life isn't worth much so they don't really care ?

But i do beleive that the Gas thing is getting played out and i do wish people wouldn't keep bringing it up, it just keeps the mith going ?? 

Thats my rant out of the way

Brian


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

You better believe that a gas attack is a real threat. My friend and his wife were travelling down through France in their Bessacar two years ago and stopped in one of the aires overnight like they always did. They were accompanied in another van by his brother and his wife who parked alongside them that night.
My friend always strapped his two front doors together at night as a precaution but on this occasion he forgot and left the strap hanging loose. In the morning they awoke later than normal and both he and his wife felt very unwell and then realised that all their personal belongings, handbag, wallet, watches, jewellry and all their money and credit cards had gone. They never heard a thing and nor did their relations in the other van parked alongside. 
They reported their loss to the police who admitted that this type of theft, using gas to knock out the occupants was becoming a common occurence, especially on the motorways as it was so easy to make a swift getaway before anybody realised what was happening.
The best thing to do to protect yourself and possesions in situations like this is to be very careful where you park overnight. I always try to find a campsite off and away from the motorways in Spain and especially France for overnight stops. I have also fitted the new Fiamma interior locks to my Ducato front cab doors. Theres no way they can be unlocked from outside. They are quite expensive but well worth the investment. I also bought a few of the small vibration alarms that you can stick on the inside of doors and windows. These are very inexpensive and are very noisy when disturbed by someone trying to gain entry. A lot of hassle and a bit of extra expense but its worth it to sleep safe in your bed at night. Apparently talking to other friends these gas attacks are also becoming a problem in countries like sweden
so believe it it does happen and is becoming more and more common occurence


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

Agree with Tony Hunt - Now I didnt at first until we met people who had been attacked 
The Gas used was a form of ether available as Diesel damp start 

They should not be able to spray anything into the van via the fridge vents - hese should be sealed from the inside of the van 
There are plenty other easier vents to use = one being the roof light that has a permenant vent built in

One couple were trully tramatised they were disturbed by something rocking the van in the night
They woke up in the morning with thick heads sore throats and all their cupboards and main door open 

Also at Vinaros (now closed) there was a spate of robberies on site - with similar effects

Also on our way back from Austria we stopped in a service area for fuel before entering Germany.
A German couple were there with police and an ambulance They had woken later than planned with head aches van doors and both inside cupboards and external access to the under bed lockers open & contents streewn around


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## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

Evening all

Which site do in Vinaros do you mean Pete?

We stayed at Camping Vinaros on 18th. November, and it was very much up and running.


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## 96856 (Dec 3, 2005)

Greeetings,

I have experienced unfortunately this sort of problem.

Early 2000, we (myself, my buddy and my son) were in France with our Westphalia VW camper. 

We were on french highway from Lyon to Marseilles.

At night, exhausted (and not advised of this kind of situation) we stopped on a rest lane. It was 1.00 am. Doors were closed, but only a little window was left open.

I woke up with a "strange" feeling (dizzy). I realized that my Eastpack bag wasn't near me anymore. I went outside the van, with a flashlight, and I found it nearby, empty... I kept searching and found some of my belongings: camera, documents. Only cash and credit cards were missing. Immediately, I called the emergency line to block the credit cards. Then we drove to the nearest "gendarmerie" and I made a deposition. 

The policeman told me "your'e the third this night. Some german tourists were also gazed at same spot. They lost all their monies, though they had an alarm inboard".

As we had - after this event - no cash anymore, it was annoying. Only one gas-station accepted to let us buy benzin and "pay later" (they just took my name and gave me their adress for sending a check later). 

When leaving the highway, at the toll gate, it was not pleasant at all. While I was saying that highways were not a safe place to be, the employee told me abruptly "we will photocopy your passport and you will receive an invoice".

Blah. For 20 lousy euros...

Never will we anymore stay overnight on the french highway's rest lane, unless it is near a restaurant or patrol station.

Headache...


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

Denisse said:


> Never will we anymore stay overnight on the french highway's rest lane, unless it is near a restaurant or patrol station.
> 
> Headache...


Denisse

I am very sorry to hear of your problem.

It is never safe to stay overnight on a rest area of a main highway or autoroute.
Many robberies have been reported over the years.

Take the time to find a place a few kilometers away from the main route as so many of us do for safety.


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## 88726 (May 9, 2005)

hi guys

i , like a few others never believed this actually happened. i personally thought it was a gag started by someone that served a useful purpose to make people more wary of their safety whilst traveling . whilst it does seem a bit fantastic i suppose that in its self would make the cime easier to comit . i now believe that it does happen and will heed advice given to avoid this. whether we ever get abroad to put it to the test well thats another matter. whilst the gas topic has been done here numerous times i found this particular thread interesting reading . safe travels !


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I think the jury will still be out for many whether there is actual cast iron proof that gas has been used in these robberies. I personally still have an open mind on the subject but the common denominator for many of these 'incidents' whether involving gas or not seems to me to be that they were carried out on autoroute aires so I would concur with Gillians advice....

DON'T stay overnight on autoroute aires, its just not worth the risk.

pete.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

I always put my alarm on when sleeping in the M/H.
I switch of the interior senses, but the alarm still works on all of the doors.
Its a Cobra Cat 1 alarm.
Does anybody else do this? 

Regards
Frank


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes.

Dave


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## 96897 (Dec 6, 2005)

Wow, never heard of this! Does gassing occur in UK? Would the gas be enough to kill a dog? Or would they be more likely to survive? Yikes!


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

typingjo

You must be British, who else would think of their dogs life before their own or their partners. :lol: 

Ken S.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I hear where everyone is coming from but I still cannot get my head around the quantity of diesel starter it would need to knock the occupants out, unless I am missing something. I am a light sleeper (only 17 stone) and I will wake up at the slightest noise or movement so I have plenty of time to wake the missus up so she can go and investigate.

I have seen with my own eyes the following scam twice - once in France and once in Spain (I think) and it works particularly well on the service stations that are on one side of the motorway only. i.e. one side has to walk across a bridge to the other side or the cafes are actually on the bridge.

M\homer parks his van and goes off for refreshment. He is followed by one man with a mobile phone. Man with mobile phone watches mhomer in cafe and alerts the other men when it looks like they have finished their meal. The robbers are long gone by the time m\homer gets back.

The first time I saw it I went behind the vehicle (a people carrier thingy) and put my headlights on full beam to illuminate the robbery. The three men ran off and I hope I saved the day for the owner. 

Another time, changing the subject we were over taken by a battered Citron which then slowed down to our pace. Suddenly it stopped without brake lights working and I just missed it. It was more than a coincidence when it over took me again and the same thing happened. Personally, if I hit something like that at night I shall just drive on to a services or toll gate before I start talking to anyone.


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

Well i know its flagrant plugging for our sister shop but outdoor bits do supply gas alarms with a recent addition being the Waeco Magic Safe gas alarm, it detects chloroform, butane, ethane and trichloroethene gases, runs off a simple 12v cigarette socket so no wiring needed etc.

See here for full info:-
http://www.outdoorbits.com/product_info.php/cPath/5/products_id/64

peace of mind for only £59.99

And yes i do have a gas alarm fitted to my MH, i figured if i was going to be travelling around Europe for over a year stopping who knows where then i would protect Julie and I to the best of my abilities


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

I also lock the doors and set te cat alarm after either Stopping the interior detecters or we close the curtain across the van so the sensors do not pick you up turning over

The point is will you be too far gone before they open the door????
And would you be too far gone before the gas sensor detected the gas????

Either of these wolud render the alarm as usless

That was the point of my previous post about barking dog proximity alarms
To detect the intruders before they get close enough to do any harm


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## 96856 (Dec 3, 2005)

autostratus said:


> Denisse said:
> 
> 
> > Never will we anymore stay overnight on the french highway's rest lane, unless it is near a restaurant or patrol station.
> ...


Yes Autostratus, I will definitely be extremely cautious when time comes to rest or simply take a nap!

Thank you for your wise advice!

Kind regards
Denise


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## 89827 (May 1, 2005)

Some fascinating contributions there, and many thanks to all. 

With any luck I might actually be talking wiyth an anaesthetist with 30 yrs experience before too long - I'll post her contribution here asap. In the meantime let me close with a warning of what can happen with some forms of commercial sponsorship. At the bottom of my browser's page this evening whist browsing this thread I read the following ad:


Chloroform
Compare prices from consumer- rated stores before you buy.

 

-SW


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## 96897 (Dec 6, 2005)

Quite correct Ken, in fact we can narrow that down to English, huh?? I'm safely free of a partner, but Dog is the UTMOST IMPORTANCE. From a brief scour of the site, believe I'm not the only dog-mad MH owner on here... :wink:


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## 89057 (May 12, 2005)

I have been a victim of very similar circumstances.

As a garage equipment intallation engineer, I had to spend many a night on site in my fully kitted out ducatto van. I was asleep at a site near London one night, when the security fence I was parked against was breached at the side of me, a vehicle taken through & a lockup containing presure washers & valeting equipment destroyed, the whole of one side 3/4" constructed of marine ply had been smashed 10 yards from my van.

The police could not believe that

a) I had nothing to do with it
b) I could have slept through the noise it must have made.

Was I gassed?

I think not, the crooks would have had no idea the anyone was in the van, as it was a plain white ducatto with no evidence of habitation from the outside & why would they carry gas as a matter of course.

My verdict, even though I consider myself a light sleeper, there is a good proportion of your sleep time when it would take an awfull lot to wake you.

Mark

PS I don't believe in ghost's either


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

a good scientist should regularily put his own most favourite theories in doubt, and so have I done it with my (already posted several times) opinion about "gas attacks". Result is:

The idea of a crook effectively narcotizing a whole motorhome crew by administering the contents of one or more spray cans (or other portable containers) from the _outside_ through some vent into the MH is and remains *complete nonsense!* That does not mean that there may not be crooks dim-witted enough to try exactly that, but it would have no noteworthy effect on the victims.

So I still believe that in (almost) all alleged gas attacks no narcotic substance of whatsoever nature (except maybe alcohol voluntarily consumed by the victims before going to bed...) was involved.

_However,_ there is an unlikely but not impossible option at least for very determined and well-organized thieves. This option would require only low amounts of narcotics and would also render gas alarms practically ineffective. Naturally I do not want to explain this in detail, as I do not want to give any malicious low-life who might be reading here a hint. Especially after I also stumbled over the Chloroforme ad which I think is a bit inappropriate in a forum like this. But I think if you read this and my previous postings about this topic carefully "between the lines", you might find out what I mean.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

One of the attacks happened on a site with fences Guards with dogs (who patrolled with Military Timing)

The thieves where found to be Rumanian origin 
Who have a different view on life

They had waited unitl the guard had passed then did their deeds 
They must have observed the site for some time

the comments about the break in (after tools) and the fact that at certain times in the night you are difficult to waken and the small amounts of gas that may be used 

All this makes me more inclined to fit a "Proximity Alarm" of some sort 
That would 
a) waken me before the attack could begin 
b) worn the would be attacker that the had been detected 

This may only serve to send the attacker somewhere else - But that is self preservation


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

This is one of the better gas attack threads, so I don't mind resurrecting it in preference to starting a new thread.

There is a first-hand account of what certainly sounds like a gas attack on the MMM forum. For those who can access it:
http://www.mmmonline.co.uk/forum/view.asp?postID=22716
and a follow-up at:
http://www.mmmonline.co.uk/forum/view.asp?postID=22851

Dave


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

there is nothing new there, other than someone who thinks they were gassed, it still didnt actually happen.

Its not possible, there is no evidence there in that thread at all. BTW supposedly 6 weeks recovery and no blood tests to find what it was

I am with Boff on this (and all the scientific evidence that says this is utter nonsense)

Gas attacks are urban legend they have not happen, we know they used gas in the Russian theatre seige because there were plenty of deaths, this is by one of the top three special forces in the world Spetsnatz.


Goverments have not got anything that will work, but scrotes on French aires have?

Not one of the suggested gases are any good

Anaesthetists say its absolute rubbish

What I cannot understand is anyone believeing its even remotely possible


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi
> 
> Anaesthetists say its absolute rubbish
> 
> What I cannot understand is anyone believeing its even remotely possible


Oh I believe it - proof positive - they used Ether and the result was the photograph on the thread a few days ago ...you know the one with the fisherman.



Frank


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## Nora+Neil (May 1, 2005)

DABurleigh

Thanks for the link read with interest.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Thanks frank 

I Must have missed that one.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Thanks frank
> 
> I Must have missed that one.


The addition of Ether to a van HERE



Ether is not an exact scientific name ie there are many 'Ethers' but they all have a flash point well BELOW room temperature. The one most associated with anesthetic diethyl ether has a flash point of -40C and an autoignition point of 160C.

So although I apologise for attempting humour by linking two unrelated serious subjects I think that its a good illustration of the likely effects of spraying ether into a van.

Frank


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I think it fair to say more evidence from Roger would be welcome, but the state he woke up in, and the "effect" that lasted 6 weeks which he associated with the method of attack, struck me as more than someone who had a bit too much wine and was burgled. And for those who haven't read the posts, no-one, certainly not Roger, said that ether was used. 

I'm not sure whether I wish I had your confidence in being always right to conclude/dismiss things so readily! 

Dave


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> I think it fair to say more evidence from Roger would be welcome, but the state he woke up in, and the "effect" that lasted 6 weeks which he associated with the method of attack, struck me as more than someone who had a bit too much wine and was burgled. And for those who haven't read the posts, no-one, certainly not Roger, said that ether was used.
> 
> I'm not sure whether I wish I had your confidence in being always right to conclude/dismiss things so readily!
> 
> Dave


No I for one am not 'always right' but Ether is only one possibility and I'm dismissing that. There are possibly several gases out there that would do the trick, after all this has been treated as black and white by some contributors. It is just possible that some gas has enough soporific effect to make people more likely to be asleep than awake when being burgled and that might be all the thief needs. Just stacks the odds a little more in their favour. So everyone could be equally right, 'there is no foolproof gas' (otherwise the anaesthetists would know about it), and 'narcotic gas detectors are a waste of money', if you don't know what the threat is how can you combat it.

Another thought is that illegal chemical labs used to abound in the area of Marseilles perhaps one of them has come across a formulation when trying for a new version of 'E' perhaps or perhaps a date rape drug in spray form.

So for now in my view the jury is out but If there is something real out there then I still find it surprising that no one has produced the scientific or medical evidence for it.

Regards Frank


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> And for those who haven't read the posts, no-one, certainly not Roger, said that ether was used.


Dave the first post and the sixth on this thread specifically mentioned Ether (after that I lost count) and the first link that you offered is exclusively about ether so commenting on Ether was certainly valid.

Regards frank


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes but those particular posts mentioning ether are pure speculation based on no evidence of it. The significant and new evidence, as little as it is, is from a *first-hand account* by Roger of something that sounds very plausibly, on a balance of probabilities, as if a gas of some sort had been used.

Those of us who have been biding their time and not fanning the flames of gas attack speculation, on either end of the spectrum, have been waiting a long time for a first-hand account! 

Dave
Edit - Having re-read this thread which i resurrected, I mean no slight on Denisse's or tigger's first-hand accounts, or the veracity of second-hand accounts such as Tony's. But Roger's albeit brief account I find by far the most compelling and the most difficult to explain without gas.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

I have always maintained that the jury was still out on this.. why do all the 'experts' maintain it's impossible or too dangerous when clearly something is going on? Just because we don't know how it's being done doesn't rule out the possibility. 
To combat any possible attack one of the contributors suggested that ventilation either natural or mechanically was the key. 
This sounds sensible to me, not only from a malicious attack but from a gas leak from within the van.. fine in summer but I'm not so sure about winter. 
Unless these victims are making up the whole story clearly something happened.. and no amount of alcohol can be responsible for a 6 week hangover.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

The fact that superpowers cannot do it, is extremely compelling.

If someone had discovered a formula, selling it to the above would be far more profitable and easier than carrying out small time crimes (well the biggest so far as been Daniella Westbrook's home (but it seems that she had several insurance claims in the previous few months) And she reportedly has a £400 a day coke habit.....

No Deaths, regardless of amount size and age of occupants.

No Explosions, some of the gases, especially the one the most gullable keep mentioning is highly flammable, hospital anaesthetists have to go to extreme lengths to prevent static ignition

No Residues and not one person as mentioned the smell

Most of the gasses cause a gagging/choking reaction hence the needle to knock you out in hospital.

Anaesthetists say its not possible, deaths in theatre do still occur and yet these scrotes, beat professionals under controlled conditions, not one death and yet to listen to the reports out there thousands are being gassed. The margin been soporific effect and death is very very slight, how do they achieve that? have they got a volume chart for every Occupants and someone who is fantastic at judging the accupants age weight and medical history at a glance? 

These gassers are extremely tidy, removing all the empties, anyone considered the cost of all the easy start? 

Why don't they target the rich and famous a few miles down the road, instead they do minor robberies on holiday makers.

Why as this not been exported? ie why is this fantasy localised.

When the dead bodies start stacking up, then we can start worrying about gas attacks.

The most worrying thing is that supposedly rational intelligent people keep thinking that its possible, in spite of all the evidence that says it not.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

of course this is first-hand account for a _robbery_. Which is not new, there are quite some first-hand reports about (more or less successful) robberies. But again, in this report there is _no evidence at all_ to be found that any narcotizing gas was used.

Even the statement from Roger that "it took 6 weeks to get out of my system" does not provide any evidence here, as the residence times of all known narcotizing agents in the human body are measured in hours or even minutes, not weeks.

No, the description in this case indicates more that whatever the crooks did to Roger and his wife happened *after* they had entered the van! Maybe they even did use a narcotizing agent then.

Again, no doubt that there are robberies, no doubt that this is a very shocking experience and no doubt that sometimes the burglars do not care much about their victim's health. However, again no evidence that any "gas" was fed into the van *before* breaking in.

Best Regards,
Gerhard

P.S: I would like to know whether this "aire" was a motorway service station.


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

I have met people who have had their vans broken into and things stolen whilst travelling along the 'tourist highway' - through the Costas in Spain. 

Out of the people who I have spoken to - none of them thought they had been gassed and only one of them woke up and disturbed the burglars- and that was when the burglars has finished collecting the valuables and were on their way out of the van. (In this case the burglar left with a very sore head!)

The most popular van to break into was one based on a Fiat - something to do with the design of the cab windows - the rubber could be cut and the small window removed from the outside, allowing the door to be opened (usually after cutting a strap that was placed between the front doors - NB - always use a chain, they may not carry boltcutters and a strap can be cut with just a stanley blade)

There is no external rubber on our Ford base and the doors deadbolt and cannot be opened either internally or externally after the deadbolt is in place - bit scary really if we want to get out!

Anyway, my point is, if someone can break into your van and rob you and escape without the use of gas - just relying on you not waking up and being a heavy sleeper - wouldn't it be possible for a thief who prefers to hedge his bets, to break in, gas you at close range then breathe a sigh of relief as he proceeded to rob you without fear of being disturbed? 

He might get a shock breaking in to our van though being confronted by a disgruntled staffie who likes her sleep! 

I would suggest that everyone just takes sensible precautions, parks in as safe a place as possible, alarms their van before going to bed, chains their doors if necessary and ensure basically that their van is as secure as possible. Any more than that and you are in danger of becoming seriously paranoid and ruining your own holiday! 

.... and as an afterthough, please make sure that you can still exit the van in seconds in an emergency - you don't want to have to be fumbling with deadlock bolts, keys, chains etc to get out if your confronted with a vicious thug or fire.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Dr Wurz,

Door chains and similar seem very popular, but a better compromise strikes me as having the exterior alarm on with the interior off. I thought most modern alarms allowed this but perhaps I'm wrong. I haven't heard of thieves entering and exiting through windows when the van is occupied, but perhaps I sleep in blissful ignorance.

As to gas from inside, this remains for me as much a theoretical possibility as for outside, though I know that many gasses irritate so risk waking up the owners.

Dave


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Wurz,

Quote *wouldn't it be possible for a thief who prefers to hedge his bets, to break in, gas you at close range then breathe a sigh of relief as he proceeded to rob you without fear of being disturbed? *

No, unless the gas is instant and includes a memory inhibitor its even less likely.

Also as Dave as mentioned the gasses are gag inducing, hence they give you an injection first before theatre and non are instant.

Gas attacks are Urban legend without a shadow of a doubt.


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## 98038 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi, I really do think that this and topics like this should be stopped, as they do nothing but spread fear in those that are subseptable and help no one ? just be careful, get out in your MH and stop wasting time writing about this type of ???


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Motorcaravan

There are people that keep on spreading this horrible and unfounded fear promoting topic. Hopefully when people read through they can see that it doesnt really happen.


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## 97324 (Jan 17, 2006)

From what i have seen on the net and read in magazine alot the scaremongering is being done by people selling there gas alarms :wink:


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

motorcaravan said:


> Hi, I really do think that this and topics like this should be stopped, as they do nothing but spread fear in those that are subseptable and help no one ? just be careful, get out in your MH and stop wasting time writing about this type of ???


In many peoples minds this argument remains unresolved, reports such as this one from this unfortunate couple are important, simple stopping or banning discussion only fuels suspicion. 
On the one hand the experts say it's impossible or at least highly improbable, the victims say otherwise.. 
Each year there are more reported 'gassings' it's important that each case is discussed and any evidence for or against is aired, only by examining each case in turn can the truth be found. 
This was the first 'first hand' account I've read, I would like to hear more about it, simply dismissing them as being mistaken isn't good enough.
I've read all the theories about why it's impossible, so please don't repeat them, .. I am not convinced either way. 
To simply draw a line under it and declare " Urban legend " doesn't convince me or close this argument.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

The 'urban legend' probably started in the states regarding the ether thing,

I found this .. http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/perfume.asp and it's plausible to see how a story like this can be expanded upon and altered to suit different circumstances.

I remain open minded, and of course vigilant out on the road.

Dave


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Jim

ok lets reverse it then, seeing as you wish to ignore the facts (all the evidence says its not possible)

How are they supposed to have done it? 

Do you really think some low life as got a gas that superpowers have not got? He could make more selling to the goverment than by doing petty robberies. (he a genius but also dumb?)

How can a scrote anaesthetise a van full of people of differing ages weights sexes and medical conditions and yet a trained anaestetist cannot do it in a theatre without occasionally killing someone.

If there was a totally safe gas why dont they use it in theatre

Explosive gases sprayed into van and yet no fridge explosions (would you let me spray some into you van with the fridge on?)

You have to ignore all this evidence.

You cant simply say I dont believe the evidence and yet post no credible alternative.

Jim, have you already bought a gas alarm ?


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Jim have you already bought a gas alarm ?


Good Evening George 
No, I haven't bought an alarm, as I said I'm not convinced either way.. 
We take all sensible precautions against burglary but I'm not worried about gas attacks as the evidence isn't there... 
I'm more concerned about someone stealing while I'm out of the van than when asleep.. 
However, while we were parked overnight by the river at Montherme France last year, someone stole the seat from one of our bikes which were securely chained to the rear rack.. 
Even that small incident was quite unnerving.. the idea that someone was prowling about during the night was enough for us to leave next morning....


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

We were having a strike back alarm and gas alarm fitted at vanbitz, on our scout, and met a couple who believed they had beengassed, she very nearly died, as she suffers with asthma,( they were also parked near friends), they were having a gas alarm fitted to their new van. because of it.

We have a similar alarm on our new van, put the gas alarm in as well, and yep, swith off the internal movement sensor, which still leaves all the doors and stuff covered. but i quite like the idea of a cattle prod, ooer did i say that!


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Raine said:


> i quite like the idea of a cattle prod, ooer did i say that!


So do I Raine, but I'll make-do with the Mk.1 baseball bat :wink:


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## 97324 (Jan 17, 2006)

any idea were i can buy a cattle prod? :twisted:


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Ebay of course where else! (cattle prod) item no. 7750775648 about £25.00


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## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

motorcaravan said:


> Hi, I really do think that this and topics like this should be stopped, as they do nothing but spread fear in those that are subseptable and help no one ? just be careful, get out in your MH and stop wasting time writing about this type of ???


I can understand your point here, it does get tiresome sometimes, but it is better that we are aware of the possibility of such a thing, don't you think.

As for cattle prods, plenty of choice here http://search.ebay.com/cattle-prod_W0QQfkrZ1QQfnuZ1QQfromZR8

M&D..Dave, I've read about what is in your link way back when it first came out, never made a connection though, but this day and age anything is possible.

I must say, my sympathies are with the people affected by the robbery DAB highlighted, whether gas or not, very upsetting for them.

MHS...Rob


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

This is exactly why they keep selling alarms, no matter how impossible it is, there is always someone who_* thinks *_they have been gassed or some dumb newspaper report.

You can tell when the person telling you about it* as not *been gassed, its really simple, they aint dead.


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## 97324 (Jan 17, 2006)

er are cattle prods legal here or europe?  

ps like officer the reason i got a cattleprod in my motor home is i lost my cow!! :wink:


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

er are cattle prods legal here or europe? 

ps like officer the reason i got a cattleprod in my motor home is i lost my cow!! 

:lol:


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## 97324 (Jan 17, 2006)

lol


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

my contributions this thread are not meant to create panic of whatever sort, but to fend off any attempts to create panic.

Nevertheless, despite the fact that the often-reported scenario - burglar feeds some "gas" into motorhome from outside, this makes all inhabitants unconcious, then breaks in - simply just does not work out:

If anyone of you *feels better* when having a gas alarm, then please install one! At least it cannot do any harm, except for the waste of money and maybe by waking you up in the middle of the night with a false alarm. However, be aware that it is very easy for thugs to bypass a gas alarm - simply by not using any "gas" - so it should always be merely a _supplement_ to other, more effective security measures and never a _substitute._

As a motorhome is not a tank a determined thief will always find a way in, provided he invests sufficient effort and time. So the main goal of all such security measures should of course be to discourage burglars even before they start "working". So any booby-traps won't work (despite being illegal), because they are by nature not visible from outside. Same goes for any kind of weapon. A big and above all well-trained(!) dog would probably do the trick, and for all people not having such a "four-legged alarm system" (like me) there is a variety of mechanical and electronical security measures available. Where I personally prefer the mechanical, being fully aware of the vulnerability of the Sevel chassis' cab doors from unfortunate experience.

However, a security measure of paramount importance is to always be careful when selecting a sleeping spot. Arriving completely overtired past midnight on a busy motorway service station is not exactly a good idea.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Raine (May 10, 2005)

I would rather be AWARE of things like this, then make my own mind up, which WE did. its our money, our van, i don't believe we are scaremongers, just our opionion,
like the 4 min mile - nobody thought that could be done either
WRONG!!!!! LOL i am now going to duck real quicik.


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## 97324 (Jan 17, 2006)

Throws plate! :lol: :wink:


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## eddieo (May 1, 2005)

God help us, some holiday! sitting up in bed with a cattle prod to worried to sleep properly with lights and radio on to deter invaders - camper with perimeter alarm and auto search lights with fog horn (Mmm…. maybe a business opportunity here) alarmed up to the hilt with all your worldly goods chained to the bed. And the only ones laughing are the alarm companies – I’m going on a Caribbean cruise rather then upgrade my camper this year – far less stressful!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

No new first-hand evidence, but taking a glass-half-full attitude, at least motorhomers aren't being singled out 

Eurowatch report:
https://secure.eurowatchcentral.com/article.aspx?rno=96

"Gas incidents
2005 has been the year in which a number of police forces have been able to confirm the use of gasses during road freight crime incidents. The UK, Italy, France, Belgium, and Spain have now all had confirmed incidents involving noxious substances and gas attacks. However, it is still believed that the numbers of actual uses of such substances are still far below those being reported. All transport managers are strongly encouraged to get drivers reporting the use of noxious substances checked out by medical personnel."

http://www.cargosecurityinternational.com/_dataimages/Eurowatch2005 Annual Summary Jan 2006.doc

"10 cases in Britain in the last year"
And apparently lightning does strike twice in the same place ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series9/week_six.shtml

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmtran/637/637we07.htm

Dave


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## elbino (May 9, 2005)

Surely if it were possible to attack a motorhome with narcotc gas we would have heard reports from the good ol' US of A with its even worse crime rate and large number of RVs ?
Rather than scour Europe for the mythical disbarred anaethetist on a mission to rob motorhomers has anybody trawled the internet for the American view of this ?


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Elbino

Yes and they say its a crock of **** (The merrikins)

They do get the odd report, but people are not so gullible, in the camping comunity its laughed at, even the truckers treat it as a Yeti sighting. They think its an excuse for being robbed.
It still has not happened for real (here or abroad) no-one has actually been gassed.

Until they start stacking bodies up its not happening.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Gassed*



ralph52 said:


> We still have not had anyone who has been gassed post in this forum, so until then, I for one will not believe or worry.
> 
> Ralph


More likely to be mugged by SMBC

(see previous posts)

Trev


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## 88726 (May 9, 2005)

hi guys 

sorry but ive just got to say that i would love to have a go on a cattle prod , 
especially on some unsuspecting thief crawling in my window.

do you suppose those things on ebay would actually have enough amps to actually jolt the crap out of someone ? :lol:


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Oh Ye of little faith........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5011676.stm

doesn't say if he has a motorhome as well though!


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Dangler said:


> Oh Ye of little faith........
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5011676.stm
> 
> doesn't say if he has a motorhome as well though!


now there's an opportunity for some companies to produce gas attack alarms for domestic air con units - bigger market than motorhomes!


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## Dudcotion (Feb 12, 2006)

Ok, so Friends of Friends are being gassed at every turn. Has anybody reported being woken during a robbery attempt by the gas detector alarm going off and saving the day? If so let us know and I'll buy one.
Gosh, posting on a gas attack thread, now I'm a real Motorhomer!
Cheers, Colin.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Most of the people who object to the idea that gas is used to aid burglaries - * and I am one * - point out that Ether, the most common narcotic gas suspect, is extremely inflammable and also the dose to ensure heavy sleepng might easily kill someone.

It occurs to me that it might, instead of a highly inflammable gas, be a substance related to the so called date rape drugs. Now the south of France where these things are alleged to happen most was and maybe still is host to lots of illicit drug laboratories who in the '60s dreamed up the next version of acid and went on to 'E' etc. Perhaps they have come up with something, it needn't be a gas, an aerosol or smoke (like CS) would also do.

So why couldn't a new drug be responsible? Perhaps there is a conspiracy not to tell us in case we all take up burglary.

Regards Frank ONC Chemistry (failed)


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