# Lazy postings ?



## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

I have noticed that there are loads and loads of postings asking either questions that are repeatedly answered over and over again or questions that could easily answered by a quick Google search. Is this because the search facility on here is too difficult or is it because it is easier to type a quick question and let someone else do the work.

This is not a dig at anyone in particular but is something that is happening more and more often.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Irrespective of the answers, make this a sticky


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

It is either lazyness or stupidity!!
Should these people be in charge of large vehicles?


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Sorry but I don't see the connection of asking questions and driving a large m/h.
If I am in a hurry I have often asked questions so resent the inference.
Sid


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

If you are in a hurry it is often quicker to do the search yourself - only you know what information you are seeking. 
If you ask a question that has been answered 'ad nauseum' you risk the people with the knowledge getting fed up saying the same thing over and over again and therefore not even answering new questions.
The connection between laziness or stupidity and large vehicles is self explanatory unless you are not prepared to think it out for yourself.
By the way Sid you don't appear to have asked any repeat questions - so why get het up about it?


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

I've done a search for stupid, repeatedly asked questions and come up with no answer...

...so I am off to start a new thread, in addition to your un-necessary one, just to clarify


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## LC1962 (Oct 6, 2005)

aultymer said:


> If you are in a hurry it is often quicker to do the search yourself - only you know what information you are seeking.
> If you ask a question that has been answered 'ad nauseum' you risk the people with the knowledge getting fed up saying the same thing over and over again and therefore not even answering new questions.
> The connection between laziness or stupidity and large vehicles is self explanatory unless you are not prepared to think it out for yourself.
> By the way Sid you don't appear to have asked any repeat questions - so why get het up about it?


From what I have seen on MHF, the vast majority of people with knowledge are far too polite and good natured to ignore questions whether they have been asked before or not. Is it really necessary for you to be so rude aultymer?

For the record I often don't find what I'm looking for using the search facility so opt to ask on the forum....I must therefore, by your definition, be bone idle and as thick as two short planks!


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Moi. I don't get het up, Its just that in the couple of years I have been on the board I have seen very few questions left unaswered, its just the nature of the people on MHF and I don't think the remarks are in keeping with the spirit of the board.
Thats me finished, I am going to bed, Nite.

Sid


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi, as I see it not all people are as good using computors as other's,so a little help & tolerance is a good thing.
I don't think it means people are lazy,& I find that comment a little offensive. However if you would like your Dental chair repaired I'm your man :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Gary


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

With me it's mainly lazyness and very often a stupid question and even more worrying, I haven't got a large vehicle.


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## Minerva (May 22, 2006)

Pusser
Dont worry, applying 'Aultymer logic', as you haven't got a large MH the questions that you routinely ask are NOT stupid, so pat yourself on the back and keep asking :wink: 

Bill


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

It would be nice to think, Aultymer, that when you log on this morning you reconsider the rather offensive reply you made above ! 

Yes, there are repeat questions but not everyone is trained in applying Boolian algorithms to the Search engine and not everyone- even those who are- can get it to produce the thread they seek.

Given that there are always new people coming to the forum, many of whom are experienced MHers, there will always be new opinions and it surprises me how often an old thread can take on a new twist.

Some time ago I suggested a series of tutorials or FAQs that newcomers often asked and to which many of the questioners you condemn could be referred. Are you willing to take on the coordination of these ?


G


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> It would be nice to think, Aultymer, that when you log on this morning you reconsider the rather offensive reply you made above !
> 
> Yes, there are repeat questions but not everyone is trained in applying Boolian algorithms to the Search engine and not everyone- even those who are- can get it to produce the thread they seek.
> G


Even Boolean algorithms don't work. I wanted to know some history regarding Fische in France, typed in Boolean algorithm in Google and I got a load of rubbish about Boolean algorithms.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

There is a fantastic database of info on MHF stored waiting to be searched.

However everytime someone asks a question, even if it has been asked many times before new info is often added.

Not sure if I was the first but early last year I started a thread about internet connection in the van. The question "How do I connect" is asked regularly and now there are so many of us connected that I rarely have to post on the threads now. 

I do think though that every time someone asks on the open threads then it must give a few others the idea to try to get connected. If the author of the new thread simply did a search these people would not have realised.


stew


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Repeat questions don't bother me, new members and old alike often ask them .. what's the issue ? If you don't want to answer .. it's easy, don't, no one is forcing you. 

Personally I enjoy helping, Googling and finding an answer is a challenge, not a chore, it gives me pleasure, I just don't see the issue .. :? 
I also keep hundreds of motorhome related bookmarks for the repeat questions.. 

There is no such thing as a stupid question.. only stupid or rude answers.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi I don't think I fall into the lazy cat,but somtimes you can google and the ans does not come up!
example yesterday I G-for Bessacarr and found pages but none told me what I wanted,untill I asked on here and found out I needed Swift group,so was I stupid? for not knowing what to put into search?IT'S all easy when you know how/what.If you don;t like the q don't answer or if you feel you don't want to help don't.There are lot's on here what I have read and then forgot till later when I want it and do not know where it is :lol: 
terry


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

ScotJimland said:


> There is no such thing as a stupid question.. .


Are you sure or are you just saying that to be nice to me? 8O


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## MicknPat (Jul 18, 2005)

*This happens time and time again not only on this but other similar forums so why isn't there a FAQ that a member can refer or be referred to? *

I find the MHF's search facility isn't very user friendly let me give an example.

I want to learn about SMART CARS so you type these words in the search for keyword field.......that produces 1584 matches on 32 pages, so you look down at the results and not one topic title contains the words Smart Cars.

I see in the forum list 'Jokes & Trivia' thread title, "The last member to post here is the best ever MHF member" which contains 202 pages 8O NOT just the one that may contain either key word, what would this thread have to do with Smart cars?

Reduced the search to just the word SMART which produces 481 matches and 10 pages.

It appears that if the search is picking out the keyword it shows the entire thread that contains it rather than just the page which after reading through a few causes :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

I too found this offensive. I have tried to use the "search" a few times with no success till Nuke helped yesterday. It's not a matter of being lazy or thick it's knowing how to use the search facility to it's full potential. I was putting in a search for "West Ayton" in the top box and hitting "search" I got loads of replies none of which had anything to do with West Ayton. Nuke advised to use the "and" "or" to assist this was much better but to be frank I still can't find what I am looking for which was a report of a good eating pub in the village.
I must admit I think this function could be improved. For example why can't you just put in keywords without the and/or? When you do this why does it bring up irrelevent replies?
Finally I think we should be encouraging people to use the forum as much as possible not driving them away with offensive remarks about their intellect!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps I should elaborate further on my brief encouraging reply to billym's post. I had hoped his pejorative/teasing "Lazy?", given he suitably qualified it in his intriguing post, would have encouraged more light than heat.

The context I see is that the question goes to the heart of how questioners and answerers could do better. 

We all have different perspectives. Nuke, for example, is often on the receiving end of claims that "MHF search doesn't work", or "MHF search is inaccurate" or "MHF search is useless". The fact is, however, that he can't fix a problem that isn't better described. On the occasions I have dared pursue an investigation (because it can throw up emotions), MHF search did EXACTLY what the user was asking of it. It's ONLY failing was that it was insufficiently telepathic; not a prime one for nuke's priority attention.

My own perspective, as someone whose motivation is as Jim has just described, is that I veer and haul aimlessly between:

1) one extreme of just giving the answer, or
2) the other extreme of suggesting a search because the answer IS in MHF. Or
3) sometimes I give a link TO the answer. 

I honestly don't know which is best. The first reminds me of the earth-shattering realisation when I realised my sons, courtesy of this country's education standards, when doing homework had no interest whatsoever in either understanding anything or knowing how to help themselves, they just wanted me on occasions to give them the answers. This seemed a travesty; a totally barking approach that reinforced a culture of learned helplessness.

The second I do when trying to encourage someone to help themselves, but I then have this guilt I haven't helped.

The third mystifies me even more. I have lost count of the number of times I have understood the question in context, the link is an focused reference to the exact answer, yet the way the thread develops, it is clear the questioner hasn't even bothered to click and read it. It goes on an on until someone says in plain text what is in the link, and the questioner is then grateful. Bizarre, and something I simply do not understand.

The Boolean thing is a red herring. All someone needs to understand is the difference between "any words", "all words" and "exact phrase". Not tricky at all.

As to a FAQ, the answer is a MHF Wiki; but this requires a bit of nuke's time to set up. But he knows I think it the next big thing for MHF, of similar additional functionality and usefulness as the campsite map database, which was the last big push.

If anyone wants to do better at helping themselves, appreciates that MHF and Google searches are dumb robots but nevertheless accurate, and wants to drive these robots better, then I am more than willing to help. Unfortunately this is best done by pursuing examples - I can't do Joe 90 brain dumps - and interactive, so almost certainly best pursued by instant messaging. I'm on MSN and Skype.

Dave


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

> The third mystifies me even more. I have lost count of the number of times I have understood the question in context, the link is an focused reference to the exact answer, yet the way the thread develops, it is clear the questioner hasn't even bothered to click and read it. It goes on an on until someone says in plain text what is in the link, and the questioner is then grateful. Bizarre, and something I simply do not understand.


Yes, I agree, not only bizarre but VERY frustrating, times like these I go and have a coffee.. or read another forum.. :wink:

You can help some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time... I find most on here very helpful and for those who have never asked a stupid question please raise your hand .. :lol:


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

billym said:


> I have noticed that there are loads and loads of postings asking either questions that are repeatedly answered over and over again or questions that could easily answered by a quick Google search. Is this because the search facility on here is too difficult or is it because it is easier to type a quick question and let someone else do the work.
> 
> This is not a dig at anyone in particular but is something that is happening more and more often.


I try searches sometimes but don't get the result I was hoping for but someone generally joins in and point me to a link or the answers the question even if it's totallyu basic.

Because we know things doesn't mean others should have the same knowledge and come on here with a problem and need a quick fix which sometime is not sorted with a search.

I started once and many do each day.

I am delighted when I can help another.


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Please don't get the wrong idea, as I have said before this IMO is one of the very best sites on the web, but



> Nuke, for example, is often on the receiving end of claims that "MHF search doesn't work", or "MHF search is inaccurate" or "MHF search is useless".


This statement shows that there are problems with the "search" as someone else said not everyone is a computer buff and a search facility should be "user friendly" If it is *often* said that it doesn't work or is useless then ergo there is a problem with it.


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## 104543 (May 15, 2007)

There is another reason why questions are repeated on these forums, if I search I get 

"Search is restricted to subscribers only."

Now this is the choice made by the subscribers, which I personally have no objection to.
Please note, I have replied on forums, added a campsite, but am not a paying subscriber yet.

Mike


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## IrishHomer (May 30, 2006)

Although I understand where Billym was coming from, I am always delighted to be able to provide an answer or information. I will even go and Google it for someone, even if I begin to wonder why they can't G it for themselves! But, as mentioned above, not everyone is adept at Googling and, anyway, you have to read through a lot of tripe to get what you want. I like interacting with the MH community. I spend a fair bit of time on here, but I usually try the search engine before asking the question. The original poster did not use the word "stupid". More questions, I say, and less intolerance!

IH


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## CaGreg (Mar 28, 2007)

One of the points that is being missed here is that MHF is not just a database for knowledge but also a community. We don't spend ridiculous amounts of our lives on here just to access information but because we enjoy the chatty nature of the posts. How many of us read posts that we might have no real interests in but enjoy the bantering that goes on in them anyway?

Newcomers often stumble onto this site and will curiously open posts and then they get 'hooked'. By what?? The fun and games that surrounds the imparting of information. In each query, the person revelals a little of themselves that others find interesting. I nearly always read posts by newcomers regardless of what they are asking for? We get to know each other through this medium. If it was only about widgets and alloy wheels then I certainly would not still be here.

So if I tell you I found ingenious disposable,collapsable multipurpose cup hooks in my local store, I might also tell you about the funny woman who served me or the bad day I had at work and that is what makes it interesting.

so keep asking and keep sharing. This is an alive website not a search engine.

Catherine


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Sticky post*

Yes do Agree though i think some of the laziness is more ignorance or rather lack of knowledge/experience of the forum.


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

CAGregg....  exactly!


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## springer (May 12, 2005)

*Lazy Postings?*

Following the logic of billym and Aultymer would it not be more efficient to limit the Forum to general chit chat and anybody asking questions would just be directed towards Google.

Like, seemingly, many others I find their ideas nonsense and totally against the principles of MHF, in that we all help one another regardless of the time and effort and the minor inconvenience of repetition


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

Nothing wrong in asking. Most people are only happy to help others. I find it sad that you think people are being lazy. Like has been said, you don't have to reply, someone else will.

Johnny F


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

*this usually happens when a spammer / advertiser joins the site with no intention of being a contributor and their only input is to advertise their business.

In these cases the eagle eyed mods move the post out of the public domain and into a hidden area of the site *

And this could be another genuine reason why I am Stupid Lazy and whatever :wink:


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

- If I hadn't been able to ask stupid questions, I would not have been on the road now. Thanks to all the people who put up with me! As already said, google gave me pages of irrelevant script, and I was not clear enough in my knowledge of each subject to search the site with the correct phraseology.
The forgiving nature of the members here allowed me to 'bumble around' for a few months until I'd got the hang of a) the site and b) the van.
Messing about with stuff I'd never done was a bit scary, especially if likely to get a shock/gassed/blown up or crushed. Holding someone else's hand rather than just reading a past post was very reassuring.
And I still can't do paragraphs!!! - Helena.
PS. I didn't half creep a bit too.


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

If there is one thing I have learned running MHF and other sites its that no matter how a page is constructed or a function displayed, there will always be someone who overlooks some important text / omits to enter something that is needed etc.

But these cannot be accounted for in programming unfortunately, this is where the community aspect of mhf comes into play, i.e. someone asks a question and then someone who is obviously more at home with the search facility and its inherrent functionality will look it up and provide the answer/link etc


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Wow - it appears I have some apologies to make!
From reading through the posts on this thread it is obvious that I have offended a number of people - that was not my intention but it has certainly engendered some debate.
Some posters have misinterpreted my comment about people asking the same question time and time again as lazy or stupid in that they seem to think I am opposed to 'stupid' questions. Nothing is further from the truth - I don't think questions can be stupid - some answers are stupid but a question only means that the questioner has less expertise in the subject than some other members. These questions are very welcome since we all learn from them.
This, however, does demonstrate that some people may read a comment and be in such a hurry to reply that they don't read what is actually being said. I did not at any time say stupid questions were being asked.

There are instances where a question is asked when further down the first page it is being answered already. Does this not display a lazy or stupid use of the forum?

I have answered, and will continue to answer threads, which are within my limited knowledge but not when the question has been answered already - that is a waste of bandwidth and clutters up an otherwise interesting read.

By the way you will all get peace for the next couple of months - I am off to France - without internet access.
Thanks to all those who have provided such a wealth of information that I can go and just enjoy it.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

aultymer said:


> It is either lazyness or stupidity!!
> Should these people be in charge of large vehicles?


I too resent this . . I often 'try' to search on a particular word or thread but mostly get a long long list of unrelated topics, so asking for info is much better plus someone prob knows exactly the thread to go too.
Its not lazyness I can assure you !


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## Minerva (May 22, 2006)

Aultymer

In fear of saying something that has already been said while I'm typing this (with one finger)

HAVE A GOOD TIME IN FRANCE YOU LUCKY ****** (PERSON)

Bill


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## JackieP (Oct 15, 2006)

I find the search hard to use. I'm desperate for some advice on European health insurance for the year. Put it into the search engine and it comes up with 3000 replies over 65 pages.

In other forums I use, the search engine would narrow my request down far more than this. I've spent many hours trawling through threads that are no use whatsover but are shown as they might (just) have the word insurance in them.

The truth is that I wold be very reluctant to create another thread in-case I get the backside ripped out of me - and sorry - I've seen in happen. :/

I hope you will see this as constructive criticism. I would suggest that the search function is 'tweaked' to give more relevant answers.

That said... I too get hacked off when a new poster ask a question that could quite easily be answered by a quick search on Google - but would still like to think I would try to help.

Just my twopenn'orth.


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

I'm no good with the search on here sadly.

So that makes me L & S :roll:


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

J99Dub said:


> ...so I am off to start a new thread, in addition to your *un-necessary one*, just to clarify


That's a good idea, the starter thread on this post could be the first one in the *title; un-necessary thread*...if you get my drift :lol: .


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

I agree to a degree with almost every comment; but Pusser.

In France it's Poisson mate - not Fische. Easy mistake to make though.

O.


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

billym said:


> I have noticed that there are loads and loads of postings asking either questions that are repeatedly answered over and over again or questions that could easily answered by a quick Google search. Is this because the search facility on here is too difficult or is it because it is easier to type a quick question and let someone else do the work.
> 
> This is not a dig at anyone in particular but is something that is happening more and more often.


Chill-out, we're not all as clever as you with PCs, it's much quicker for us dimwitted individuals to ask a simple question, sometimes you meet another member who is hoping for the same info, but too shy to ask. 8O


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

JackieO said:


> The truth is that I wold be very reluctant to create another thread in-case I get the backside ripped out of me - and sorry - I've seen in happen. :/
> .


Jackie...that's really sad. If you feel you can't ask a perfectly reasonable question for fear of getting flamed then, as a member of this forum, I feel at fault too. I hope -and think- that the mods would step in and prevent this but, if they miss it, then PM them and point out what has happened.

There are, as I said before, so many new members coming on every day that even a question asked before can have a new slant added because of different people who answer.

( For European insurance for the year try Saga. We have found them very good. They are understanding if you have health problems as well)


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

There is nothing wrong with the search ... nothing that is if you have read all the words around the various boxes and know what they all mean 

Not everyone does and I, who have had much experience with searches, found that I was making a basic error for quite a while so first of all lets have some plainer easier to understand instructions please nukeadmin aimed at the beginner.

Next what about a pop up help?

Lastly some of us who know more should help more, so in that vein:

Lets use the example of health insurance quoted above.

If you type in the two words "health" and "insurance" and leave the button in its default top position you will get around 1650 hits that is because every mention of the word health or of the word insurance will produce a hit.

Leave the words as they were but hit the second button now you only get around 50 because now both words have to be there.

Is that clearer?


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

aultymer,on a personal level I would rather be accused of asking a stupid question rather than being stupid,Sorry but thats the only conclusion I can draw from your first posting.
What you need to take into account is that not ALL people are wizard's at searching or even computers in general.
I stated before that I was offended by your comment in fairness I suppose what I meant was that it was generally offensive to to all of us that are less empowered on data base searching.  
gary


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"It appears that if the search is picking out the keyword it shows the entire thread that contains it ..."
Mick - Only if that's how you left the search form. If you want just the posts, then select "Display results as: posts".

"I still can't find what I am looking for which was a report of a good eating pub in the village."
ksebruce - Ingram's travelogue here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-10818-0-days0-orderasc-.html
is the only thread on MHF (other than this) with West Ayton and pub in it. There are, however, numerous references amongst Google and motorhome magazines.

"I must admit I think this function could be improved. For example why can't you just put in keywords without the and/or? When you do this why does it bring up irrelevent replies?"
You can. And it only replies with a valid response to your request.

JackieO - there are 22 posts on MHF with European Health Insurance in them. And 8 with Europe Health Insurance. It is not possible to post a link to an MHF list to the fruits of this search (can only do this for a single keyword) but this may help:
> Google 1 <
> Google 2 <

Dave


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Thats odd I only make it 16 including yours Dave


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks for that Dave....but I have to say, still, and judging by the other people haveing problems the system is far too complicated. For example why should you have to use and/or? Using my case as an example if I wanted posts showing west that is what I would enter, similarly with ayton. The very fact that I input west ayton means west and ayton. Hope I'm making sense.

Hope no one is taking offence at my comments and I now understand how it works (I think) But I've had to go through a learning process just to search for a thread or post. This is perhaps one of the reasons that people are asking repeat questions.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

ksebruce said:


> Thanks for that Dave....but I have to say, still, and judging by the other people haveing problems the system is far too complicated. For example why should you have to use and/or? Using my case as an example if I wanted posts showing west that is what I would enter, similarly with ayton. The very fact that I input west ayton means west and ayton. Hope I'm making sense.
> 
> Hope no one is taking offence at my comments and I now understand how it works (I think) But I've had to go through a learning process just to search for a thread or post. This is perhaps one of the reasons that people are asking repeat questions.


You dont need to use "AND" or "OR" the top button is the "OR" function and the 2nd button the "AND" function put more simply. If the top button is pressed a hit is made if *any* of the words aprears in a (post or thread depending on the setting) and if the 2nd button is pressed *all* the words have to be there for a hit.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

And I thought that's what I just said to ksebruce. Oh well.

Yes, searching is a learning process. And what a valuable thing to learn. 

Posts, not threads, Frank.

Dave


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks Frank

I'm going for a lay down now


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## 99412 (May 25, 2006)

Putting quotes around a phrase, in order to search it in entirity and one of my personal favourites in Google, doesn't seem to work. 

A sad loss.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DaMann said:


> Putting quotes around a phrase, in order to search it in entirity and one of my personal favourites in Google, doesn't seem to work.
> 
> A sad loss.


You are right Damann and that often narrows things right down.

Yes DAB you did but not explicitly

IMHO the way that threads are repeated having the AND function as the default would make more sense


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## JackieP (Oct 15, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> ksebruce said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for that Dave....
> ...


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## 96105 (Aug 23, 2005)

hi i throw you a curve ball here :arrow: 

if you post and no one answers 8O does that mean every one thinks you are lazy :lol: :lol: 

:wink: 

ray


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

So people are happier with Boolean AND and ORs rather than "any terms" and "all terms". Fine ...... 

Dave


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

I think you are missing the point a bit Dave....wots "boolean"?

this is what people are trying to get at. it's too complex for what should be a simple task as is shown by the misunderstandings on this thread including my own


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Err, I didn't think I was. The trouble is, when one's lost it, one is the last to realise ..... 

In chronological order:

1) Earlier in this thread reference was made to Boolean being complicated.

2) I said it was a red herring - all you needed to understand was the difference between "all terms", "any terms" and "exact phrase" - plain English stuff.

3) The search form buttons "explanation" is indeed "all terms" and "any terms".

4) Suddenly, when Frank posts an alternative explanation which actually uses Boolean AND and OR functions, the penny seems to drop.
Despite me doing this from the Chinese to you last night 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-260659.html#260659

Which I thought odd!

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> 1) Earlier in this thread reference was made to Boolean being complicated.


Me trying to be clever Dave. I'll go back to normal.

I never have problems with Google; in fact I think I'm a bit of a whiz and I use it to death ( family history, general interest etc etc) BUT I have problems with the Search function of MHF, regularly finding myself with far too many threads to sort. soemtimes i find what I'm looking for, mostly I give up and go to good old Google. That usually brings up the MHF letter in short order.

I don't think I'm either thick or lazy.

G


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

lol 4 pages of a thread about how to search and the same thing keeps being said i.e. MHF search no good, but it works fine if used correctly as proven time and time again.

Yes google may do things differently and perhaps better but you have to remember that its google business to do Searching  mhf runs on a customized derivative of the phpbb forum which is a free open source bit of software and as such has no proper support, its all forum based advice type affair. I'm afraid MHF will never be on the same par as google as far as searching is concerned, the same as google will "probably" never be a motorhoming community


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

nukeadmin said:


> google will "probably" never be a motorhoming community


Some element of doubt here.. :lol: but if the price was right... :wink:

could be the next "youtube" ..? 8)


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

I actually got bored halfway through this thread :sleeping: ..........so appologies if I missed the point.......but................IMO

When I joined MHF way back .I didn't know a fart lot and rarely answered posts intelligently (so whats changed I hear you say)......well whats changed is that having read posts (even repeated questions) all this time I am now able to answer SOME queries......even if they've been asked a thousand times before. 

Isn't that what MHF is all about........... :roll:


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## 105144 (Jun 13, 2007)

I think anything to do with Motorhomes should be allowed to pass through unhindered. However if I were to post the question:

"What's the date, today?"

I think that could be construed as lazy and billym might be justified in venting his frustration, perhaps by tooting his horn but without demonstrating, as aultymer does, the internet forum equivalent of road rage.


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

badger said:


> I actually got bored halfway through this thread :sleeping: ..........so appologies if I missed the point.......but................IMO
> 
> When I joined MHF way back .I didn't know a fart lot and rarely answered posts intelligently (so whats changed I hear you say)......well whats changed is that having read posts (even repeated questions) all this time I am now able to answer SOME queries......even if they've been asked a thousand times before.
> 
> Isn't that what MHF is all about........... :roll:


*Well said Badger :wink: :wink: :wink: *

=================================

BTW:- what is the day & date is it today? I honestly dont know


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

> I think that could be construed as lazy and billym might be justified in venting his frustration


Why should anyone "vent" anything.................just ignore the damn post if its not what you want to read, understand or help with.............

.................Chill out!!!............. :smoker:


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## mauramac (May 24, 2005)

2 POINTS.

1) I think some people just like to post a new topic which they know will get people going - just to see how many responses they get. Bit like the argumentative individual (we all know at least 1) who loves to be controversial and creates a bundle and then calmly walks away leaving everyone having a scrap :roll: 

2) How hard is it to get your point across in text without it being misunderstood? If you are face to face it is so much easier to have a conversation without confusion as you can read the persons expression and hear the tone of the voice....jokey  ....angry :evil: .....confused 8O . How many times have you sent a text message on your mobile for quickness only to find the person receiving the text totally misunderstood and confusion or anger sets in :? 

I often try and use search but give up - it nearly always defeats me despite DAB's best efforts to educate me - sorry Dave  

Sorry - was that 3 points  :lol: 

Maura


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

> 2) How hard is it to get your point across in text without it being misunderstood? If you are face to face it is so much easier to have a conversation without confusion as you can read the persons expression and hear the tone of the voice....jokey ....angry .....confused . How many times have you sent a text message on your mobile for quickness only to find the person receiving the text totally misunderstood and confusion or anger sets in


I agree entirely.

Dave Burleigh, I understood what you were saying and it was a great help to me I fully understand how the search works now. I should have expressed myself better....the comment wots boolean? I meant to show that newcomers with little knowledge of computers probably wouldn't have a clue what this meant (as I didn't till you explained)

What I have been trying to get across was that newcomers using search are more likely to expect a single box to enter a word or phrase and click a "go" button and to be taken to posts containing the same.

I'm no web site expert but was merely voicing an opinion and in no way meant to critisise anyone.

Reminder to me:- think carefully about how to word a post before submitting.


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## JackieP (Oct 15, 2006)

I take on board the points made about dedicated search engines. I was in the grumps last night - apologies for spitting the dummy. 

Thanks to this thread however, and to an astute poster I have now found a way around my dilemma. I just put my query into Goggle and, as stated, I'm usually directed to MHF AND to the one or two most recent threads where the information is more readily available.

Where there's a will and all that...


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## mauramac (May 24, 2005)

Just out of interest can anyone tell me why Google is so much more popular than Yahoo search engine? Your opinions naturally :lol: 

I have two grown up children (one in IT) and both only use Google. I'm not so keen on it and prefer Yahoo - it seems to offer more choice and also always opens up answers in new page whereas Google loses the original list of results as soon as I click on one....does that make sense 8O 

Or (and even more likely) what am I doing wrong  


Maura


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

billym said:


> I have noticed that there are loads and loads of postings asking either questions that are repeatedly answered over and over again or questions that could easily answered by a quick Google search. Is this because the search facility on here is too difficult or is it because it is easier to type a quick question and let someone else do the work.
> 
> This is not a dig at anyone in particular but is something that is happening more and more often.


It must either be too difficult or the 'search' facility isn't working properly, I've been doing a search on [aluminium boxes] [back boxes] [carry boxes] - infact any combination I can think of to find posts on rear carrier boxes . . . every time I get the exact same list of threads up . . none of them related to my search enquiry :roll:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Is this the one you want >click<

that was found by using 'tow' 'rear' and 'box' and ticking all terms


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## 99181 (May 12, 2006)

ive got a question but to afraid to ask ...ill email someone instead leave the forum blank that will do mhf a load of good....not
dave


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

> ive got a question but to afraid to ask ...ill email someone instead leave the forum blank that will do mhf a load of good....not
> dave


? :?


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## CaGreg (Mar 28, 2007)

If people PM a person they know might have the answer or if they efficiently use the search facility people like me will never learn anything!!!

The forum posts are where I learn all I need to learn and loads of stuff I definitlely don't need to learn but read it anyway. It beats doing ironing, gardening, cooking, watching Frazier re-reuns........

Catherine


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## 99181 (May 12, 2006)

cagreg...thats my point ,the forum would be blank at the risk of a repeat question


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

I did not mean to offend anyone by posting this. If I had I would have used examples.
I too enjoy reading posts on whatever subject and would not want to put anyone off posting. I have recieved invaluable help by asking questions on here.

As a result of this thread I can now use the Search facility so Thank you !

So my point was two fold, the search facility and laziness. I am concerned that as a society we are relying too much on others and losing the ability to think and work things out for ourselves. If we cease to think and simply ask someone will soon be telling us what to do and believe me they are trying very hard to do that already.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Good thread, billym, thanks.

Dave


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## Bill_Posters (May 28, 2007)

I have read similar threads on other forums before. I can't help but feel it's a matter of perspective and experience.

What may seem like a silly, basic question to you, may actually be a massive first step for the poster,

I know from my own experience, that not being able to put the correct terms into Google has led to a dismal response.

Whereas, if I come on to a dedicated forum, I _can_ ask about connecting the "widget to the thingy under the wotsit". Someone here will know and help. ANY search engine will turn up it's toes


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## Bill_Posters (May 28, 2007)

Oh, by the way, I am no where near the 'level' where ANY question can annoy me


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

BillPoster.
I did not say anything about silly or basic questions or mention being annoyed


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Only just noticed this thread and can't be bothered to read it all  The usual solution to this is issue is to create an FAQ. There are a number of ways to do this the usual one is for the site owner (Stand up Dave) to create one.

The other more modern way is to have a Wiki for FAQ's.

Can I suggest that Dave creates a Wiki and we all dive in. If you see a question that has been answered before create an entry in the Wiki and respond to the post with a link to the Wiki. If you create the Wiki article it is sensible to post references to the MHF articles or where you got your info from or other references etc. If the wiki article doesn't have a full/complete/acurate answer we can debate it in the forum or go in and correct the Wiki.

DOH!!! just realised it would take away from this forum and maybe hurt advertising??? Or maybe not would depend on how its done and linked into the forum?

I think for common questions or regular advise it would be a good resource and a welcome addition to the site (PS you could put adverts in the Wiki itself Dave)

Cheers
Karl


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi, Karl

This was discussed a while ago, and Dave has some Wiki extensions to the phpNuke software, I believe. However, it's not clear how it would be used, and we might end up just posting links into the Wiki instead of replying, which removes some of the dynamic of the forum.

It's still on the list, I believe. :? 

Gerald


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

billym said:


> I did not mean to offend anyone by posting this. If I had I would have used examples.
> I too enjoy reading posts on whatever subject and would not want to put anyone off posting. I have recieved invaluable help by asking questions on here.
> 
> As a result of this thread I can now use the Search facility so Thank you !
> ...


excellent post billym


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

billym said:


> BillPoster.
> I did not say anything about silly or basic questions or mention being annoyed


So, what is your motive for posting ?

To discourage newbies from posting for fear of asking a repeat question? ..... I'm at at at loss why this is an issue .. without them this forum would be dead in the water, do we only need a FAQs page .. ? 
I think not :roll:


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## Duadua (Feb 16, 2006)

Spot on Jim

Or would some prefer an elite section, for those who already know everything and would prefer not to have read old or repeated questions raised by others who may never be eligible to join such an elitist forum?


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

Me...Me..Me....can I join.............. 8O  :lol:


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Ugh ! NOW I've got to go read up on "Wiki" . . I can see my brain cell exploding sooner or later :explosivesmile:
- I can't be bothered doing a search -so I'll just ask the question 'wats a Wiki' :roll:


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## LC1962 (Oct 6, 2005)

vicdicdoc said:


> so I'll just ask the question 'wats a Wiki' :roll:


When my daughter was 2 her dad had lots of "Wikis" growing out of his chin......something to do with facial hair is my guess but then I don't know so much :lol: :lol:


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

A wiki is a site where the users edit the content themselves. The main example is www.wikipedia.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Karl


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

The search facility on here returns anything & everything. It's often impossible to find what you are looking for without asking directly. I just put in a search for electrical problems on a Nuevo & got aload of totally unrelated threads


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

what you should have searched for perhaps was electrical AND problems AND nuevo

lol the only post that comes up with is this one


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Have you considered the possibility that it may be doing exactly what you asked it but you're the one in error? Please state the precise entries/options in the search form you used.

Dave


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Yep. tried 'electrical AND problems AND nuevo' .It does bring up the Lazy Postings thread! I chuckled........off to try google now


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Google is king. You can use Boolean logic in all its formats.

I tend to use google search rather than MHF search as I prefer the 
+"thing you want" +item -"skip this one" format

The FAQ/Wiki would only be stuff which crops up regular as clockwork.
It could also include sections on standard stuff like hight/width of vehicles and tire pressures etc.

Karl


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Not got the time to read through the thread completely so if I am repeating anything then I am sorry I am just too lazy no I mean busy to read it all this morning :lol: 

Sometimes I need an answer to a question and give a go searching on the forum and sometimes goggle. However, if as this morning you are in a rush then it is not always easy. A quick question on a new thread will jog someones memory who will either link to a previous thread or come up with the answer again. Is this such a problem? 

I have in the past often given the same answer and see nothing wrong with it.

Great post though, having only had time to look through the first couple of pages!

Must go, got to get up to Diddlebury in Shropshire.

Regards

Chris


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Yep G2EWS

It's usually easier to ask a fresh question...as long as no one is offended LOL


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

as people seem keen on Google search methodology what do you think of the new google search feature below the forum navigation panel top centre of the page ?


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## Duadua (Feb 16, 2006)

That has to be a plus.

Brilliant innovation.

Well done Nuke.

Haven't tried it yet mind.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Yep I will second that it is brilliant!

Much better than forum search.

Mind I still like to ask new questions as you can get a more upto date reply with some different opinions. But it is still good to reasearch.

Richard


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

I have now managed to get the search results from the Google search integrated into MHF rather than opening a completely unrelated popup page, the result is much more aesthetically pleasing


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Questions are the lifeblood of a forum ...by all means use the search but please do not ever stop asking questions... 

Sometimes I have noticed new members answering those often answered questions that we may have all seen many times before.... I think that is just great, the more interaction the better. 

By the way, the new google facility is another nice enhancement a will help you quickly find what you are looking for on here .... but IMHO it is not as good as the old search which can find a needle in a haystack if you spend some time getting to know how to use it.

mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The latter requires one to help oneself Mike. As someone pointed out, asking others is easier; let them do the work, as they want to help anyway.

Over 3000 viewings in 10 days; glad no-one asked for it to be made a sticky :roll: 

I suspected that many of those who like Google search but hate MHF search actually did not appreciate that the defaults of both engines, when entering multiple search words, are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. The Google default is AND (ie, ALL terms), whereas the MHF default is OR (ie, ANY terms).

Most of the time most people will want to search for ALL terms (but note, you may still want to choose whether these are to be found within an individual post, or within the thread as a whole, so ensure you choose the right option), so nuke has changed the default to ALL terms, just the same as Google.

In addition, the phrase on the MHF search page of "or use query as entered" I thought confusing, as experimentation hadn't revealed any way a phrase could be searched for, and nuke didn't have any further information. So it has been deleted.

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> I suspected that many of those who like Google search but hate MHF search actually did not appreciate that the defaults of both engines
> Dave


Dave..the other day I wanted to find e-mail addresses and names that Russell had posted. I entered "Rapido561" in the Author box of the search and got back several pages in which Rapido561 appeared 3 times only as author. There were postings authored by virtually everyone else in the forum. What did I do wrong ?

G


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

G,

Well it is the same issue as I cautioned about in the post above. You need to consider, case by case, whether you would be better selecting "thread" or "posts". I suggest you do as you did before but select "posts" and you will get a more focussed search of what you want in this case.

Only do it with an e instead of an o ;-)

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> G,
> 
> Well it is the same issue as I cautioned about in the post above. You need to consider, case by case, whether you would be better selecting "thread" or "posts". I suggest you do as you did before but select "posts" and you will get a more focussed search of what you want in this case.
> 
> ...


Dave..If that's a reference to Russ's avatar, I did get it right in the original instance but was too lazy to go back and look for it again when writing this post. When I did my search I knew only that I was looking for e-mail addresses and a name for someone in Swift. I could not remember enough detail to do a search on that. "Swift"- as you might expect- brought up a huge volume of information. I would have thought a- correctly entered- name for the author would only bring up their posts and not those of anyone else.

G


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## handiyman (May 1, 2005)

*lazy postings*

The Google search bar has just solved my problem.
I tried a few times to find out where there would be motorhome shows. Searching in Forum Search for Motorhome Shows, I get loads of forum listings, but typing it in the Google bar gives me a very neat list by month of the various shows. Was not ably to find that before!

Peter


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## jonnowycombe (Mar 2, 2007)

Oh you do whinge


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Grizzly said:


> snipped....
> I would have thought a- correctly entered- name for the author would only bring up their posts and not those of anyone else.
> 
> G


Only if you check the 'posts' tickbox as well...

If you do a basic search on rapide561 as the author and leave it on the default 'topic' tickbox you will get fewer hits (2846) than if you check the 'posts' tickbox (4533), simply because it will show the whole topic and the selected author may well have posted more than once in a topic and also, is not neccesarily the topic starter either, whereas when you select 'posts' it will show every individual post by your selected author. 
It will only do what you instruct it to.

pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

There is a limited ability to display the results of an MHF search in a URL link.

So, for example, the following link shows all POSTS by author DABurleigh that include EITHER the word autobox OR towball:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modul...or=DABurleigh&search_keywords=autobox+towball

Adjust to suit. The "&search author=...." is optional. You can use just one keyword, or add more keywords, BUT, unfortunately, this only works for searching for ANY keywords, not ALL keywords.

Dave


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