# Save Baltic Wharf CC Site - LATEST NEWS



## StephandJohn

Hi everyone
Bristol City Council decided behind closed doors to close Baltic Wharf campsite and use the land for a school.
The local traders didn't know anything about it until the decision had been made.
Know they now the traders who rely on tourism are extremely angry, particularly Bristol Ferries (who have a ferry stop there) and SS. Britannia both of whom say that say they rely on the campsite for their 'bread and butter' during the winter. A point that been totally disregarded by the council.
They only need 3600 signatures on their petition to force the council to have an open meeting about it.
It has enabled Bristol Ferries too keep running during the winter and therefore keep their employees on.
Its a great campsite and will be a great loss to camping if it is allowed to close
So please can you sign the petition below and send on to other forums etc you belong to.
Thanks.
Steph

This is an email from Lou Phillips of Bristol Ferries who has been arranging the petition. (please post on here if it isn't working so I can tell her).

Lou Phillips
19:34 (15 hours ago)

to me 
It is working!! 
http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/view/Campsite

Please sign and share!
Me and Matt have an interview with BBC RADIO Bristol early tomorrow morning so the more support we can get the better,

Fingers crossed!

Lou x


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## janet1

Done.


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## bognormike

signed!


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## bognormike

and here's the earlier thread

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopt...-is-closing-news-and-petition-on-the-way.html


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## geordie01

done


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## Voxdicentis

Me too! When we stayed there there was some furore about redeveloping the whole of the wharf, which presumably meant the loss of the train and all the historic infrastructure - something I think they did on the other side with the usual bland sanitised result of of local authority thinking.

Keith.


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## Voxdicentis

Me too! When we stayed there there was some furore about redeveloping the whole of the wharf, which presumably meant the loss of the train and all the historic infrastructure - something I think they did on the other side with the usual bland sanitised result of of local authority thinking.

Keith.


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## Zozzer

Done, even though I've never stayed there, I would like to in the future.


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## philoaks

Done and sent to 6 friends who will also miss the site if it closes.


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## tokkalosh

Signed


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## Mike48

Done. Only 119 signatures so far so a very long way to go. I haven't stayed on the site for years but am booked in to stay in June. 

Shouldn't the Caravan Club be drumming up support through their magazine?


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## Jin

Done


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## chasper

Have also signed, will be there 16th May for my birthday :lol:


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## bigcats30

Done

I hate councils and their above God attitudes

Salisbury has been ruined by the council and their total disregard of what the people say/want/need lets hope Bristol doesn't go that way.


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## bertieburstner

*baltic wharf*

It's a great site we use alot, as others have said it's nearly always full. I would imagine the pub next door would lose alot of business as well.


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## Carl_n_Flo

Done!


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## christine1310

Done - we like the site and enjoy going when we can get a pitch.


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## Nethernut

Signed


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## Westkirby01

Signed

We were there in the big freeze 2 years ago. Great site. We agree with all that has been said by the locals. We used the Ferry and also visited the SS GB. 

Is there a time frame for the signatures? Have the council already allocated the site for the School regardless of the outcome? Councils very rarely change their minds. As said above, surely the 'Club' owners would/should seek representation.

Regards


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## Mrplodd

Done but I am not at all optimistic that anything will change!


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## Penquin

done and published on Facebook too

Dave


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## bognormike

Penquin said:


> done and published on Facebook too
> 
> Dave


I did that 4 hours ago!


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## Jamsieboy

The CC will not arrange a petition or assist in any way. They are talking to the Council about possible alternatives. They will not rock the boat in any way as they are dependent upon the Council helping identify possible alternatives.
As I understand it there is no hope of a reprieve. If the school plan falls through the Council will sell the site to a housing developer for big bucks.


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## Westkirby01

Jamsieboy said:


> As I understand it there is no hope of a reprieve. If the school plan falls through the Council will sell the site to a housing developer for big bucks.


Ah well! Question is answered. Thank you Jamsieboy


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## Penquin

Surely, if it can be shown that public demand is for the site to continue and the Council has acted without consultation there will be calls for a public enquiry and possibly a judicial review over the decision....

There is never "no hope" until the redevelopment has actually started, the CC have proved to be spineless and only interested in glad handing and top people, they are NOT concerned with their members - which of course is how they started......

Try asking how much has been paid by the CC on "consultancy fees" and " "lobbying organisations and people" you might be horrified at their use of club funds......

Dave


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## rowley

Done.


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## StephandJohn

Thanks all so far - we need a lot more signatures though.
I asked the Caravan Club and they're not interested in rocking the boat so we (and the Bristol traders) will have to do it for them - an for us!
Any ideas about how we could help with publicity I'm sure would be welcomed by Bristol Ferries who have organised the petition.


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## pippin

If they build a school then surely the trade at the adjacent pub will rocket up - and I'm not just talking about the teachers using it!

Seriously, I reckon that the usual criteria have been put in place by the council:

"In order to give the public a better service we are withdrawing it."

Accountants will have looked at the situation as only accountants can:

"There is a greater profit to be made by closing this site."

However, as usual, the Law of Unintended Consequences will inevitably apply.

The council will lose more money as the local beneficiary traders close down - business rates income lost.

Hey - Ho, but what do I know.


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## Mike48

StephandJohn said:


> Thanks all so far - we need a lot more signatures though.
> I asked the Caravan Club and they're not interested in rocking the boat so we (and the Bristol traders) will have to do it for them - an for us!
> Any ideas about how we could help with publicity I'm sure would be welcomed by Bristol Ferries who have organised the petition.


What about getting the English Tourist Board involved? What about businesses lobbying the local MP?

Locating a school adjacent to water and on such valuable land is a crazy idea.


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## StephandJohn

I think they thought nobody would notice until it was too late - but we did!
Lou and Matt from Bristol Ferries are on local radio tomorrow morning. We can't get it here but if anyone can I'd really like to know how it goes.
Also - if anyone is a member of motorhomefun or any other forum and can put the petition on it can only help.
Steph


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## StephandJohn

Mike = I'll ask Lou who is co-ordinating the petition if they've done that.


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## Mike48

StephandJohn said:


> Mike = I'll ask Lou who is co-ordinating the petition if they've done that.


Another suggestion. What about contacting the motorhome and caravan magazines drawing attention to the petition and also get the local Bristol press involved. If someone is able to write them a short article, perhaps in the form of a press notice drawing attention to the importance of the site to the local economy, it would almost certainly be published.


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## Jamsieboy

Sorry to be so pessimistic guys BUT do the sums.

Approx 50 pitches, say on average across the year £20 per pitch per night. Total income est circa £364,000 PA to the CC. Based on 100% occupancy. Some LA leases to the CC are on a % of income. Say 10% so the Council get circa £36,000 PA. could be more could be less.

The Lease is due to terminate.

The Council thinks - school! Maybe not best place but then again if that fails perhaps sell land for a luxury housing development. That option would generate BIG bucks.

If you were the Council in need of income to help balance the books what would you do? Renew the lease to the CC for a relatively small income OR ???

The local businesses may well make a fuss. We might be outraged. But in all honesty in these times of big cuts in government grant to local authorities the money men make the call.


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## 96706

Done!

Every little bit helps


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## prof20

Done.

Roger


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## MYFANWY1

*Sign*

Done, stayed twice love the site,can't close it.
Eddie.


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## Sideways86

Done

stay there and love the whole set up


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## adgy

I'm signed up 

Cheers


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## peedee

Stayed there several times over the years and think it is one of the best sites in the country for being close to attractions. I've signed and >this is the link< to the interview on Bristol Radio.
peedee


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## paulmold

Jamsieboy said:


> Sorry to be so pessimistic guys BUT do the sums.
> 
> Approx 50 pitches, say on average across the year £20 per pitch per night. Total income est circa £364,000 PA to the CC. Based on 100% occupancy. Some LA leases to the CC are on a % of income. Say 10% so the Council get circa £36,000 PA. could be more could be less.
> The Lease is due to terminate.
> The Council thinks - school! Maybe not best place but then again if that fails perhaps sell land for a luxury housing development. That option would generate BIG bucks.
> If you were the Council in need of income to help balance the books what would you do? Renew the lease to the CC for a relatively small income OR ???
> The local businesses may well make a fuss. We might be outraged. But in all honesty in these times of big cuts in government grant to local authorities the money men make the call.


A CC warden on a LA leased site told me that it's the LA who get around 90% and the club only get the 10%. If that is the case it puts the figures in a whole different light and it could also be the reason there seems to be little if any comment from the club - maybe it's just not worth it to them.


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## pomme1

Signed,

Roger


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## talogon

Done and sent to friends.


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## Lilliput

Signed!

It would be a great shame if this site closed. I have only ever managed to get on it the one time, and given it's location it is one of the best I have ever stayed on.

What is it with Council's? Can they only ever think in the short term?

Lilliput


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## Penquin

It has now reached 430 signatures, so keep spreading the word.....

Dave


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## Jamsieboy

Signed - hoping for the best


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## aldra

Done x two

Aldra


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## gholt417

Done


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## MHFAdmin

bump.....


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## Penquin

Now at 616 signatures - keep sharing and caring for this site - there are not many others in a similarly brilliant position (in fact I don't know of any others but hopefully someone will and can advise us all.....)

Dave


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## StephandJohn

Latest news and a request

Just spoken to Lou who is running the petition along with Matt: they have an article coming out on-line at Outandaboutlive. I'll put on the link when I get it.
They've also done a video with the BBC for youtube - I'll put the link up when I get that too.
Has anyone sent the petition on to any other motorhome'caravan clubs etc? Just asking so that I don't do the same.

Thanks all and thanks Penguin for keeping us updated about the petition numbers.

Steph


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## bognormike

and a reminder ......


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## Penquin

Now 729 - twice the minimum number required to force a public debate.....

Dave


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## uncleswede

Signed


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## BarnacleBob

Enjoyed a three day stay in January and would like to visit again so I have signed.


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## paulmold

Penquin said:


> Now 729 - twice the minimum number required to force a public debate.....
> 
> Dave


Sorry to say that the 350 figure quoted somewhere is wrong, it's 3500 and according to Bristol Council Petition rules, petitions regarding planning permission are not accepted and petitioners must work, live or study in Bristol, so on those points this petition will go nowhere but I sincerely hope it makes them take notice of the public feeling.

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/def.../have_your_say/Petition Scheme march 2014.pdf


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## StephandJohn

Thanks Paulmold.
I'll send your comment and link on to Matt and Lou who are running the campaign and see what they say.
Steph


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## Charisma

Signed anyway. I used to live in Bristol - does that count? 8)


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## Penquin

Sad to read that but thanks for the update Paul, there are now 755 signatures........

Dave


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## javea

Signed.

Mike


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## Penquin

> * paulmold said; *....... according to Bristol Council Petition rules, petitions regarding planning permission are not accepted and petitioners must work, live or study in Bristol, so on those points this petition will go nowhere but I sincerely hope it makes them take notice of the public feeling.
> 
> http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/def.../have_your_say/Petition Scheme march 2014.pdf


In their section on petitions and planning applications it states;

_ *Who can submit a Petition?*
Any Bristol resident can submit a petition. There are no age restrictions (children can also submit and sign petitions).
However, for petitions relating to planning applications, petitioners may include non-Bristol residents who have an interest in the application, for example, the applicant, the applicant's agent, the owner of the property etc._

I would contend that people wishing to make use of the Baltic Wharf site could be considered "to have an interest in the application" so they cannot ignore the e-petition........

source of quoted text;

http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/community/page/petitionguidance

I suspect that if they tried to ignore the submission of what will be a four figure petition by the end of August, they may well get challenged to a judicial review for breaking their own publicised guidelines.........

It may well be that they have conflicting things in different places....

the pages you link to does not exclude Planning application petitions but does state that they are submitted in a different manner....

Interestingly it does say that planning applications are excluded from this manner, but then tells you how to do it, not that they cannot be referenced in a petition.....

Dave


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## larrywatters

all done great site, but nearly always full.


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## StephandJohn

*Carry on Signing even if you're not a Resident of Bristol*

Hi Paul and everyone

I asked Matt about the possible problem with the petition and he has clarified below.

Email from Matt who is organising the petition:
we had to clarify with the relevant department that signatures from people outside of Bristol would be accepted on the petition. They said yes and that it was usual that they split out Bristol based and non-Bristol based residents in the report they provide.

Both Lou and I are Bristol residents so we have every right to submit to the council. By its very nature the campsite closure will impact those not living in Bristol too so it's right for those voices to be represented. They do contribute significantly to the local economy after all!

Once we hit our target of 3500 signs, we're planning on putting a presentation together which covers all angles. Hopefully we'll be allowed to present that at the council meeting. So grateful for your support Steph and John! We can do this!!!

Best wishes and happy camping,

Matt


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## StephandJohn

So far:
774 signatures
61 replies on this site - thanks. 
2500 people have looked at the post but not replied so we don't know if they have signed or not!
Its on Motorhomefun, Caravan Talk and Caravan Club members forum that I know of.
We must keep the pressure up by finding more sites to post on so every bit of help will be fantastic.
Steph


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## paulmold

*Re: Carry on Signing even if you're not a Resident of Bristo*



StephandJohn said:


> Hi Paul and everyone
> 
> I asked Matt about the possible problem with the petition and he has clarified below.
> 
> Email from Matt who is organising the petition:
> we had to clarify with the relevant department that signatures from people outside of Bristol would be accepted on the petition. They said yes and that it was usual that they split out Bristol based and non-Bristol based residents in the report they provide.
> 
> Both Lou and I are Bristol residents so we have every right to submit to the council. By its very nature the campsite closure will impact those not living in Bristol too so it's right for those voices to be represented. They do contribute significantly to the local economy after all!
> 
> Once we hit our target of 3500 signs, we're planning on putting a presentation together which covers all angles. Hopefully we'll be allowed to present that at the council meeting. So grateful for your support Steph and John! We can do this!!!
> 
> Best wishes and happy camping,
> 
> Matt


Thanks for the clarification and I'm glad you cleared it with the relevant departments beforehand. Good luck with getting that vital 3500 figure. 
Other forums it's on are Outandaboutlive and Autosleeper Owners and Tribute Owners and Swift Owners and Motorhomeowners , so the word is spreading.

Paul


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## Woofer

Signed.


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## daimlermg

Done


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## jonesy1

*petition save baltic site*

signed


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## Suzysetter

signed


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## TheSheriff

Signed.

This great site MUST NOT CLOSE


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## StephandJohn

*Baltic Wharf Campaign New Website*

Hi everyone
This is the new website.
www.savebristolcampsite.com
Please send the link to anyone you think can help

Also below are some other links:
Link to BBC radio interview: bit.ly/1tD5a3F 
Twitter: @SaveBristolCamp
Link to article on Out and About: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Ca...popular-campsite-from-closing/_ch2_nw3283_pg1
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BalticWharfCampsite
Long link to petition: http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/community/petition/2706

Thanks to everyone who is supporting this campaign
Steph and John


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## Penquin

Have posted that link elsewhere too, now up to 889 signatures after only two weeks.......

Dave


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## Goldmaz

All signed.


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## oldtart

Thanks, Dave for keeping us up to date.

I thought I'd signed to be kept updated, but must have got it wrong!

Val


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## StephandJohn

*Anyone belong to Motorhomefun and news aboout the campaign*

If anyone belongs to Motorhomefun can you bump up the petition please.
Its under the thread 'Petition- save Baltic Wharf'
I've outstayed my welcome on there and would have to subscribe to continue.

Lou and Matt who are running the campaign are starting on the Bristol MPs and the Tourist Board today as well as managing some more publicity locally.

Bristol Ferries, The Cottage (the pub next door to the campsite) and SS. Britannia (just along the river from the site) have paper petitions running.

The campaign website is
www.savebristolcampsite.com


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## mikebeaches

Sue and I both signed the petition. We live locally - pass the site almost every time we go into town. It will be a great shame if it is lost.

Mike


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## Penquin

Now up to 952 signatures and if you have never visited the SS Great Britain you have missed a treat - she was brought back from the Falklands as a derelict, floating in camels and now sits in the dock with a mock water tank around her so that when you walk around the hull in the dry dock you are actually UNDERNEATH the water and look up through the glass bottomed shallow pool - magic.

The displays on board bring to life how it was to journey on the ship in her heyday.........

do have a look for the cat though - and beware of trying all the doors to the loos.....

Those that have visited will undoubtedly know what i am talking about, if you haven't go and visit.

That is just one reason why the Baltic Wharf site needs massive support so that the Council realises the strength of public opinion from across the UK..... and beyond.....

Dave


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## StephandJohn

*News*

Hi all
I have just received this from Matt in Bristol who is orchestrating the campaign

"Today I have emailed all 70 local council representatives for Bristol with the below. Very little response but just wanted to make them aware and try to get them talking. Also emailed Aardman (Wallace and Gromit) to try and get their support. (This is because there has been a big Wallace and Gromit campaign in aid of tourism in Bristol for the past 18 months.)

The plan for tomorrow is to contact the Chamber of Commerce (Bristol West) and also making contact with other influential businesses in the area. Councillors are worried about budgets and the one thing that may help us is if we can get local businesses to support us by providing an endorsement we can quote - perhaps with positive views of the site and concerns for the future plans.

980 online signs now! Will catch up with Lou this week to see how the paper petitions are doing.

All the best, Matt

Email sent to all Councillors 28.4.2013
Just thought we'd introduce ourselves and share our website with you: www.savebristolcampsite.com
Please take a peek as there is loads of great info on there. Our online petition has been going for a week and we're nearly at 1,000 signatures already. Paper versions are running too! BBC radio Bristol and the Bristol post have covered the story and there's lots of activity on Twitter, Facebook and online discussion forums. We're receiving a phenomenal amount of positivity from local people, businesses as well as visitors from far and wide; who feel that their bond with our wonderful city was made possible because of the campsite.
This campaign has been started by local people and our thoughts are that the Baltic Wharf campsite has been a fantastic asset to Bristol and the harbour community for over 30 years. Closure will have a devastating effect on the local harbour community, tourism and businesses. Although you represent [INSERT WARD], this is the only campsite in the whole of Bristol and closure, without public consultation, undermines the very principles of the [INSERT PARTY] party.
With just a little more thought we could keep a superb gateway to Bristol open, sustain the harbour community, and build a new school in a far more suitable and safer location. Please see our website for more information.
We would be very grateful if you were to help us inspire a debate on this issue and, hopefully, save this unique facility for the City. Please feel free to get in contact.
Matt Gibbs 07757996296


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## Penquin

The signature count now stands at 1006 so that is one milestone passed......

Keep spreading the word and encouraging everyone to sign.......

Dave


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## HermanHymer

Just picked up on this thread again and added my J.Hancock. 

Anyone out there hasn't done it yet? I/you may never go to Bristol but thousands do and it's the principle at stake!


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## Annsman

I'm afraid this is an issue that shows up the problems with central government cuts to local authority grants. Millions have been cut from council grants all over the UK and local councillors of all parties have had to make some horrendous decisions, that many would have never dreamt they entered politics to make. Cuts in elderly social care, education, social services, police and fire services and local authority services right across the board are all fighting for a smaller piece of a small cake.

When we read stories about those cuts many people don't think through the longer term consequences. Cuts to frontline services make the headlines. Cuts to "back room services", like this one, seldom do.

Would those signing from the Bristol area to save the site from development be as eager to support it if the council changed their minds but had to put up the Council tax, or local business rates to fund it? I bet half would be complaining even louder then!

This site sold to a property developer, in the location it is would bring in many hundreds of thousands, if not millions for the council. Far more than many years of takings from a campsite.

It's a stark view of the future people. Perhaps it might be worth remembering this when stood in the ballot booth and hovering over the party that promises to lower your taxes wants your X!


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## Gary1944

Also signed. Thanks for the link.

Gary.


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## scottie

done.


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## Sgt411

Done :lol:


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## Penquin

IMO and it is my opinion which people can agree with or not as they wish, I can see the problems facing the Council IF they were in a position to sell the land for development, but that is not their declared intention......

they wish to put a primary school there, even though the site has many fundamental flaws for such a purpose; it's location in an industrial area, the lack of parking for delivery vehicles or parents (and we are all aware that very few children are now allowed to walk to school - particularly when there is little residential accommodation nearby, and the ever presence of deep water along one edge of the site and as this winter's weather has shown floods can occur anywhere and can obscure "safe" paths along embankments.....

So discussing possible Council Tax rises or not, is a red herring......

The Council has unilaterally decided this course of action and has not undertaken ANY local discussion or consultation - that is a major flaw and reflects the ABUSE of the powers that they have.

And THAT abuse of power is why public consultation, albeit at a very late stage, MUST now take place - and the only way of increasing the likelihood (note not guaranteeing, but increasing the likelihood) of such a consultation is if the Council is made aware that very many people are concerned about this abuse of power.

Maybe, when cuts are being considered, the rate of remuneration for the Councillors themselves might bear examination - I am aware of Councillors in a large County within 100 miles of Bristol who are making a very good livelihood solely based on the remuneration and expenses of their position - public service does not enter into their reasons for their career in local Government.......

BUT such discussions are {offtopic} for this debate - many people are trying to attract public attention to this loss of an amenity WITHOUT any form of public consultation.........

Dave


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## bognormike

bump


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## StephandJohn

Thanks everyone for bumping this and for signing. Still a way to go but getting there.

So far we have:

1407 signatures:

1057 online signatures	
350 signatures on paper


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## LucyCaitlynW

Signed


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## Annsman

Penquin said:


> IMO and it is my opinion which people can agree with or not as they wish, I can see the problems facing the Council IF they were in a position to sell the land for development, but that is not their declared intention......
> 
> they wish to put a primary school there, even though the site has many fundamental flaws for such a purpose; it's location in an industrial area, the lack of parking for delivery vehicles or parents (and we are all aware that very few children are now allowed to walk to school - particularly when there is little residential accommodation nearby, and the ever presence of deep water along one edge of the site and as this winter's weather has shown floods can occur anywhere and can obscure "safe" paths along embankments.....
> 
> So discussing possible Council Tax rises or not, is a red herring......
> 
> The Council has unilaterally decided this course of action and has not undertaken ANY local discussion or consultation - that is a major flaw and reflects the ABUSE of the powers that they have.
> 
> And THAT abuse of power is why public consultation, albeit at a very late stage, MUST now take place - and the only way of increasing the likelihood (note not guaranteeing, but increasing the likelihood) of such a consultation is if the Council is made aware that very many people are concerned about this abuse of power.
> 
> Maybe, when cuts are being considered, the rate of remuneration for the Councillors themselves might bear examination - I am aware of Councillors in a large County within 100 miles of Bristol who are making a very good livelihood solely based on the remuneration and expenses of their position - public service does not enter into their reasons for their career in local Government.......
> 
> BUT such discussions are {offtopic} for this debate - many people are trying to attract public attention to this loss of an amenity WITHOUT any form of public consultation.........
> 
> Dave


I agree there should be public consultation Dave, but surely such discussions between people on here can't be off topic!

The reasons why the council took this discussion must have some validity, they didn't just sit down one day and decide "I know lets build a school where the campsite is! Hands up who agrees! there that's that, what's next?"

They would have at least had some in- house discussion with the various heads of education, tourism, finance and planning about such a course of action. Those discussions will have a direct bearing on whether this request for a review has any chance of success, whether through the council chamber or courts. Local authority finance has a direct relationship with these plans too. To start by slagging off councillors, accusing them of being corrupt and doing things illegally won't endear them to anyone questioning their judgement.

I think we Do need to accept there maybe other valid uses of this land, and to know those helps fight this, and another side to the argument. We don't know ourselves whether the people of Bristol want it fought by people from outside. For all we know at the end they might be happy for it to go ahead. Anyway, apart from an interest in wanting to camp there it's not really got anything else to do with the vast majority on here.


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## Penquin

Please read my reply more carefully, my comment about this not being a suitable place was for discussions into;



> *Penquin said; *Maybe, when cuts are being considered, the rate of remuneration for the Councillors themselves might bear examination - I am aware of Councillors in a large County within 100 miles of Bristol who are making a very good livelihood solely based on the remuneration and expenses of their position - public service does not enter into their reasons for their career in local Government.......


and not into anything else. This is not a suitable thread to discuss such things. If you wish to discuss them, then I suggest you start another thread in the Subscribers Lounge and not divert the topic of this thread.

Dave


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## StephandJohn

bump


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## Penquin

The total now is 1449 including 350 written signatures, the remaining 1099 being on-line ones.


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## Penquin

Sadly this no longer seems to have "stickie" status so it is up to all of us to keep it on the front page by bumps or comments....

Dave


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## StephandJohn

Thanks Dave. I was thinking that myself.


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## Penquin

AFAIK the only other possible action to keep it visible at the top of the page would be for the owners/moderators/helpers/admin to change it's designation to that of an "announcement" - which could be done easily as it is every bit as important as other announcements have been in the past....

I am sure that we can all recall how long the MHF Insurance praise was listed as an announcement at the top of the front page....

The future of the Baltic Wharf site is surely of great importance to all MHF subscribers since it offers a unique opportunity (and by that I don't mean you will only ever get one chance... :lol to stay in the centre of a city amid the history that actually made that city.

Once sites go and are redeveloped I suspect we will not see them replaced - in this case the CC has apparently been in discussions with Bristol City Council for some considerable time, but to no avail, even though the Council owns some very suitable land within a short drive including the Ashton Court estate AFAIK.

Dave


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## StephandJohn

Thats a good idea. How can we make it happen?


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## kencocamper

signed


----------



## MHFAdmin

in response to the request, thread has now been "cemented" to the front index page in a smiliar manner to the MHF Site changes thread.


----------



## Penquin

Thank you very much for that very positive action MHFAdmin.

Dave


----------



## StephandJohn

Thank you.
Come on everyone iff you haven't signed please do and please send it on to everyone you can think of.
Steph


----------



## oldtart

Thank you mHFAdmin for your response.
Val


----------



## Annsman

Penquin said:


> Please read my reply more carefully, my comment about this not being a suitable place was for discussions into;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Penquin said; *Maybe, when cuts are being considered, the rate of remuneration for the Councillors themselves might bear examination - I am aware of Councillors in a large County within 100 miles of Bristol who are making a very good livelihood solely based on the remuneration and expenses of their position - public service does not enter into their reasons for their career in local Government.......
> 
> 
> 
> and not into anything else. This is not a suitable thread to discuss such things. If you wish to discuss them, then I suggest you start another thread in the Subscribers Lounge and not divert the topic of this thread.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not trying to be awkward, or clever, but I still don't get why a discussion on this is off topic for this thread. I'm not being party political, abusive or personal in comments about anyone, so why should it go into the Subs lounge where non members haven't got access to it.

I'm not against the campaign to keep the site open, I have been there and thought its location perfect for visiting Bristol, and we intend to go back one day. There must be some alternative being discussed with the CC as they don't seem to want to make waves, it must easily be one of their most visited sites and if they have to give the lions share of the takings away to the council then it is in the clubs' interest to have a different location. I imagine that as long as it's not miles outside the city then as soon as that one opens we'll be queueing to get in there too!


----------



## hommes

Signed.


----------



## StephandJohn

Latest news from the campaign organiser:

Hello Steph and John,

You've done some tremendous work in getting us to a mass of signatures that means we're stating to be taken seriously. The FOI request really adds some weight too.

The paper petition is doing well with over 350 already. Had an interview today the The Bristol Post who are putting the story in their newspaper this time rather than online. A bit of radio silence from Councillors but of about 5 replies with supporting messages and 2 actually signed too.

Next step is to push the paper petition, survey campers to add to our position and a film maker has volunteered to help us make a 3min summary of the campaign and our supporters. Might call you for a bit of voice over support if you're up for it?

All about timing we think. One phase at a time. We're doing really well!

Thanks again,

Matt


----------



## Penquin

Now up to 1510 signatures, 350 on paper, the remainder on-line.

Keep the total going up, please encourage everyone you know to sign.

Dave


----------



## thevines

Done!


----------



## samsung

Signed petition.They must be very short sighted


----------



## taffman

Done


----------



## StephandJohn

The latest from the campaign - please sign if you haven't already and complete the survey

Dear friend of Baltic Wharf Campsite,

Firstly, thank you so much for signing our online petition! We´re making waves in such a short space of time. However, if we´re going to convince Bristol Councillors to listen to us then we need to be able to represent the opinions of as many people as possible. So, would you be kind enough to answer about 5 questions in our little survey please?

Please click here to start the Survey
...or copy this link into your browser: https://qtrial2014.az1.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_07G0UMqsXilW7tj

Bristol's local elections are taking place on the 22nd of May so the sooner we can get some responses the more pressure we can put on the Council. With just a little more thought we could keep a superb gateway to Bristol open.

Thanks again for your support!

All the best,

Matt & The SaveBristolCampsite Team
[email protected]

www.savebristolcampsite.com 
@SaveBristolCamp


----------



## Penquin

Done, thanks


----------



## StephandJohn

Thanks. I knew I could rely on you!


----------



## philoaks

I've done it too StephandJohn but I nearly didn't realise it was a new survey as I was just skimming the thread. I'd worry that it will get buried as the thread progresses and won't be seen. I wonder if it's worth a thread in its own right? 

P.S. Thanks for all your efforts in helping the campaign


----------



## StephandJohn

Thanks. I know what you mean but this thread has been put in announcements' by admin to keep it at the top so a new thread would need to be kept 'bumped up.'
Any ideas anyone please?


----------



## Penquin

Put the url link into many posts, if you copy and paste this tinyurl link into any post, or even StephandJohn, you put it as part of your signature with a line to explain;

http://tinyurl.com/qfu9pm3

that will take anyone that clicks on it straight to the survey.

If it is in your signature it will be visible every time that you post (any of us can do that but you are obviously the "lead" figure on MHF)

Being a "tinyurl" the link works for anyone and the same link can be copied and pasted elsewhere.

Dave


----------



## StephandJohn

Thanks. I'll have a go but I don't think I really understand it!!


----------



## Penquin

Total is up to 1619 signatures now.

To add the tinyurl to your signature proceed as follows;

1. highlight and copy the url link from my signature or from here;

Baltic Wharf survey link; http://tinyurl.com/qfu9pm3

2. go to the top line of any MHF page and click on the "Home" tab, a menu will drop down, go to "Your Account Page" and click on that.

3. that will bring up a page of welcome which includes a tab just above the Contribute to the MHF Community which says "Change info", click on that,

4. Scroll down, nearly to the bottom of the page to the line labelled Signature with a box to the right.

5. Paste the url that you have copied earlier into this box, then MOST IMPORTANT;

6. Scroll further down that page and press "Save changes" which is just above the Avatar Control Panel.

The tinyurl should now appear on all posts that you have made or will make.

I hope that helps,

Dave


----------



## prof20

Survey completed.
Roger


----------



## larryn

Done good luck with it


----------



## sennen523

I have signed.

Lovely site, we visit every year to see friends in Bristol.

sennen523.


----------



## Penquin

Now up to 1682 signatures.


----------



## blondel

Signed and survey done. Great work!


----------



## StephandJohn

Thanks Penguin. I expect the paper petition will go up after the bank holiday.
I know its on the SS Gt Britain, The Cottage pub right next door to the campsite and on the Bristol Ferries but there may be others by now.


----------



## oldtart

Survey completed.
Val


----------



## Penquin

Now up to 1734 total, and yes I suspect they will be busy collecting signatures in a variety of places which sadly will exclude the site itself.... the CC does not want to "rock the boat" over negotiations with BCC......

IMO it is great not to rock the boat, but very much harder to keep one's head above water when the craft has completely sunk.......

and without the activity of the petition the site will definitely become a small part of Bristol history - like so many other things in the name of progress.....

Dave


----------



## GordonBennet

Added


----------



## StephandJohn

*Results of survey. Closing the site will cost local business*

Shocking news! We need to campaign even more strongly now.
We will lose an excellent caravan site and Bristol economy will suffer greatly.
Just a thought - so that people see this campaign can you draw attention to it in other postings. Hope this is allowed.
Steph

Dear Stephanie

Thank you very much for completing our survey and for allowing us to contact you again. We had to stop at 243 responses so we could prepare the report.

Based on the data collected we can estimate that closing the campsite will cost local people and businesses Ł1,250,000 every single year! Please feel free to have a read of our PDF report which can be found here: http://savebristolcampsite.com/our-report. It will only take a few minutes and the findings are quite shocking. The comments from both Bristol residents and visitors make for some inspiring and illuminating reading!

With local elections on the 22nd of May, we wonder how the Liberal Democrat Councillors for Cabot explain this loss to the local people and economy? We're sure that, with just a little more thought, we could save this wonderful gateway into Bristol which is of immense benefit to visitors and local people alike!

If you would like to support the campaign further then perhaps you might like to email or call the Lib Dem Councillors for Cabot (where the campsite is) directly. If so, here are their details: 
Lib Dem Cllr Dr Mark Wright - [email protected] - (0117) 914 2559 
Lib Dem Cllr Mr Alex Woodman - [email protected] - (0117) 353 3381 
There are more contacts details and info on how to help in the report and on our website www.savebristolcampsite.com

Thank you! We can do this!

All the best,

Matt & The SaveBristolCampsite Team
[email protected]

www.savebristolcampsite.com 
@SaveBristolCamp


----------



## Penquin

Thanks for that link, the .pdf file makes interesting reading and reflects accurately my feelings about the loss of such an amenity.....

Please take the time to read it, it is simple and well constructed, spread the word, you know it makes sense......

Total signatures at the moment = 1751, so that's 17 since yesterday evening......

Now over half-way to the magic number to compel a public debate apparently......

Dave


----------



## mikeclowes

*Bristol*

Done 
Hope you succeed love Bristol great city


----------



## Penquin

Now 1816 signatures, no change in the paper ones yet, but they will have been collecting at the various locations including the ferry and the SS Great Britain, so hopefully it will go up again in a big jump when those are registered.

Keep asking anyone and everyone that you come into contact to sign, please feel free to forward the address for the e-petition to all your friends and family and enlist their support and their friends too;

http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/community/petition/2706

It cannot harm to spread the word about this campaign as widely as possible, thanks in anticipation.

The recent survey that was undertaken has now been analysed so that it can be used to seek the opinions of prospective local councillors prior to the local authority elections in a couple of weeks time;

http://savebristolcampsite.com/resources/Save Baltic Wharf Campsite - Survey Report 04052014.pdf

That link has been published on here before by stephandjohn but you might have missed it.....

Dave :lol:


----------



## Annsman

Dear Matt,
Thank you for your email about the petition to save the Baltic Wharf Caravan Park. Obviously this is an important issue in Cabot ward.
A little back-story to this if I may: in 2008 the local primary school St Georges Primary, of which I was a governor at the time, was scheduled for closure by the Council. I was part of a strong grass- roots campaign, like yours now, that succeed in reversing the closure plan. Instead, the Council decided it would expand the school on a new site to make it properly viable long-term. Since then, the Council and school have been looking for an expansion site in the centre; and also since then an acute shortage of primary school places has arisen in the central areas.
In 2011, the caravan park was proposed, along with sites on Wapping Wharf and Redcliffe Wharf, as a potential site for the school's expansion. At that point I (and my colleague Cllr Alex Woodman) objected, on the grounds that the Wapping Wharf site was much better. Since then the Wapping Wharf site has been ruled out (finances don’t work) and the Redcliffe Wharf site isn’t suitable (too small). Also since 2011, the continuing uncertainty about the school's future has started to take its toll on the school, and it's fair to say that the situation is now desperate.
It is this situation that has led the Council back to the caravan park again. After 6 years of looking and waiting it is increasingly clear that there are not going to be any other expansion sites in this part of the city centre, and it is because of this that the school are eager to move to the proposed site and put an end to the Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. As a former governor of the school, and elected representative of many local parents worried about the shortage of school places, I feel I must support them in their goal of expanding on the proposed site.
This has not been an easy decision for me. I lived on Baltic Wharf for 8 years and know the caravan park very well. I also am a co-chair of the Harbourside forum (which represents harbourside stakeholders and interests) that has many links with harbour-side organisations that have understandable concerns about the loss of the caravan park. We are between a rock and a hard place, but I think an unavoidable choice has to be made about the future of the site.
What I will say is that I will work behind the scenes to press the Council to find a relocation site for the caravan park. Too often the Council says it will “try” to do such things, but doesn’t. But there must be space enough for the caravan park in places near the river in, e.g. St Philips by the new LEZ and near where the new Arena is planned. Right now the surroundings of this area are not in great condition - but it is changing fast, in a few years it could be ideally located among a newly developed quarter of the city.
I will also say that the way that the recent news of this proposal for the caravan park was broken was a chaotic mess. That is extremely regrettable, as is the apparent lack of public consultation beforehand. However, neither of those change the fundamentals of the situation. Because of that, I hope you will understand why I am unable to support your campaign to save the Caravan Park on the current site, though I will obviously support activity to save the business by finding a new site.
Yours sincerely, Cllr Mark Wright

I've copied this reply from a Bristol councillor about the intended development, just to show that it wasn't some great hidden conspiracy and was done openly and with proper discussion at council and external level. It was originally posted on a thread about the closure on the CC web site forum.

In my opinion there has been a decision to be made here affecting many local people and the choice was to support a local schools' development or keep a camp site, however popular. The choice was simple and the only one that could be made. When it comes right down to it, schools are important. Camp sites aren't!


----------



## Penquin

Annsman quoted;

_I will also say that the way that the recent news of this proposal for the caravan park was broken was a chaotic mess. That is extremely regrettable, as is the apparent lack of public consultation beforehand_

is that *"openly and with proper consultation at council and external level?"*

I think not........ when even the Councillor says it was not.......

Maybe the local elections will reflect this "public consultation" too....

Dave


----------



## Annsman

Fair point Dave. But I think the issue will play little part in any voting patterns in the forthcoming elections. There are various parties standing and I bet none have this issue on their agenda. A special interest party with just the one issue may possibly attract a few dissident voters but those that can be bothered to turn out will divide along the usual party lines.

Anyone standing, with any sense, will stress their commitment to local educational improvements over the needs of "outsiders" wanting to camp near the river. The CC will get their site in another area and we'll flock their instead and still spend money on the riverside attractions. That way the local economy will benefit from increased spending on local transport, or car parks and within two years this topic will be well forgotten by all concerned!

If the school doesn't happen and properties are built there the local businesses will be able to take advantage of the incoming money.

I've been involved with local political lobbying over things that could affect peoples lives being affected by fire service cuts, something you'd imagine people might be at least vaguely interested in. The apathy of people to that was an eye opener. A closing camp site will hardly make people take to the streets! It's right we should fight for things we want but to even begin to imagine local politicians would turn down the kudos and political capital to be made from opening a brand new school over keeping a campsite open is a bigger fantasy than Harry Potter!


----------



## Penquin

> *Annsman said; *The CC will get their site in another area and we'll flock their instead and still spend money on the riverside attractions


That is the point that I genuinely doubt, as has been said the Bristol CC have spent



> * Cllr Mark Wright said; * in *2008* the local primary school St Georges Primary, of which I was a governor at the time, was scheduled for closure by the Council. I was part of a strong grass- roots campaign, like yours now, that succeed in reversing the closure plan. Instead, the Council decided it would expand the school on a new site to make it properly viable long-term. *Since then, the Council and school have been looking for an expansion site in the centre*; and also since then an acute shortage of primary school places has arisen in the central areas


they have been looking since 2008 for a site for the school and have rejected one other site on financial grounds, if they have been unable to locate a site for a school, I wonder what priority, or even what level of attention will be given to a replacement site for the CC?

IMO none or virtually none, it is a paper exercise and the CC will be able to turn round in perhaps another six years and say *"Oh well we have been looking but have not been able to find anywhere"*

Once a site has been closed it will not reopen - even in another area, and the number of such alternative locations in Bristol is zero with the access to facilities and amenities.

*Prediction;* Once that site closes there will *NEVER* be another one in central Bristol.

I do agree that the needs of the users are small fry c/w the needs of the education of children (I was a teacher), but the cynic in me says that the City Council will not try very hard to locate anywhere else and the Caravan Club will not wish to push them as it would be to "rock the boat".

Dave


----------



## WindyGale

Done.


----------



## Happycampers

also signed.


----------



## Annsman

I think the cynic in me agrees with the cynic in you Dave on your final point!


----------



## Penquin

Maybe we should form a new CC ?

No, not Caravan Club, or City Council, but Cynic's Club.........

Time will tell, but I suspect we are both correct over the outcome and that site will be redeveloped next year......... but not for MH.........

The total now is now 1888 signatures, but there has been no increase in the number of signatures on paper i.e. those beiung collected at e.g. SS Great Britain, or the ferry terminals or any of the other places where people can sign.

Dave


----------



## StephandJohn

Hi Dave
re the paper signatures. They will be collecting them this week so we should know soon.
Steph


----------



## Penquin

Total now 2051 - 1607 on line and 444 on paper.


----------



## DABurleigh

There's a public meeting with Cabot Cllrs on the 13th of May 7pm-8.30pm at Spike Island cafe 133 Cumberland Rd BS16UX.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.446766,-2.610386,3a,75y,341.6h,82.97t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sul61YSpPopEvxffaAQWvMw!2e0?hl=en-GB

Should get some feedback on the mood music after that.

Dave


----------



## zack

Signed


----------



## zack

Signed


----------



## Penquin

2193 this morning so there is a steady increase and that is 2/3 of the number needed supposedly to trigger a public discussion.....

Progress is being made, please share the link on the top line of my signature as widely as you can.

Dave


----------



## SidT

Done


----------



## vicdicdoc

I must admit that I've not read ALL the posts in this thread but I'm amazed that there is so much passion for a CC site . . Why not just let that club fight for it ? 
I'm sure there are other/better sites around the country, I can't work up any enthusiasm to see it remain open- I'll take my ££ or preferably €€ elsewhere.


----------



## Jamsieboy

I emailed Councilor Dr Mark Wright one of the local elected members.

He replied advising that the decision to terminate the CC lease was taken by the Mayor alone and that only the Mayor has the ability to change the decision. It appears the local Councilors were not consulted. 

Having said that Dr Wright did say that the feedback from local people is that a school is high priority over a campsite and that the local population have been pressing for a school in the area for six years. There appears to be no alternative site for a school within the harbour area.

He did say the Mayor was trying to find an alternative site for the CC.

So whilst I have signed the petition it rather looks to me like there will be no change of heart by the Council. The petition may however help secure an alternative site given the level of support being achieved.


----------



## DABurleigh

Vic I think the issue is such that support is coming from:

1) Those who like to visit a British city centre with their van. It maybe not be a unique site in that regard, but it's certainly rare for its location/ convenience.

2) Those who wish to visit Bristol per se (like me with a son who has bought a house in the centre). Just look at sites/CL/CS in or near Bristol and there's a big hole.

3) The businesses who profit from Bristol CC users.

You don't fit into any of these, but surely can appreciate others do 

Maybe another way of thinking might be would you like motorhomers who don't have a parochial interest nevertheless to support something you DO care about?  What goes around comes around.

Dave


----------



## bognormike

I think what particularly appeals to motorhomers about Baltic Wharf is the ability to be in the centre of a city, and be able to walk out & see that city without the hassle of "commuting" from an out of town site. 

Whatever the Council or CC do about finding an alternative, it is certainly NOT going to be as motorhome friendly as this. Tuggers will be Ok with this, becuase they can do what they do everywhere else, hop in their car and drive in! Maybe that's why the posts, and support for the petition on the CC forum have been so lukewarm. :roll:


----------



## Penquin

> *Jamiesboy said; *He replied advising that the decision to terminate the CC lease was taken by the Mayor alone and that only the Mayor has the ability to change the decision. It appears the local Councilors were not consulted.


That is why signing the petition IS important since there must be considerable doubts whether such a process is totally allowed, it is a major change for the role of the area and such a change, done without democratic consultation with even the councillors for the area, irrespective of the proposed use, may well be sufficient grounds for a judicial review......

Such things have happened elsewhere over planning decisions which are not arrived at via the accepted route of public consultation.....

Signing the petition will raise the profile and may make a public discussion more likely, it may also mean that the Mayor's unilateral decision is challenged at the DoE level for planning....

No-one knows, but if no signatures and no petition had been started then any change would be very unlikely, it is not guaranteed to change but the likelihood is increased by greater public awareness of how the Mayor has acted......

The current total of signatures is 2226 - and more are being added daily.

http://tinyurl.com/mbzrzt5

Feel free to copy that tinyurl link and distribute it as widely as you can - to MH owners and caravan users - many of whom are also VERY unhappy with the decision to close the site........

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/clubs/caravan-club/e-petition-launched-in-bid-to-save-baltic-wharf-site-from-closure-$21384211.htm

Dave


----------



## carrot46

Petition signed
I not stayed at the site yet , but hope to in the near future.


----------



## chasper

Stayed there this weekend, and saw this near the Nova Scotia pub opposite the Underfall boatyard.


----------



## blondel

The website states only 2345 so is it for the same thing? :?


----------



## chasper

Talking to a local in the pub last night, he said it included the written petitions of which there are a number in several places.


----------



## blondel

OK that looks good then! Thanks.


----------



## mrbricolage

Just one question. Why petition for a site you can't even stay on! I just had a look at the bookings and it's full until at least October. Strikes me as though it is being used by full timers who are contracting in Bristol?


----------



## Penquin

The site is VERY popular and there have been comments such as MrBricolage's before.

The CC of course deny such things and simply say that the site is fully booked on the opening day for reservations....

but there continues to be thoughts that some people seem to book for long periods and then have the statutory couple of nights out before going back inside..... which to me sounds like full timing with weekends out at times....

BUT the CC are unlikely to give a detailed breakdown of who stays there and for how long - they are bound to claim "data protection" and "personal data privacy".......

So, such thoughts are bound to crop up every so often.... 

but irrespective of that, if the site closes then no-one will be able to stay there at all....

and as we have been there twice, we do know that it is possible to book after the opening day and still be lucky........ we have stayed there for a weekend and for five days once.

Dave


----------



## chasper

We were there this weekend and there was someone in the office complaining about how hard it was to get on the site because it is always shown as full on the website, the warden said it was worth a call direct to the site because any cancellations do not necessary show up on the website.


----------



## wp1234

Done


----------



## pomme1

I've stayed at Baltic Wharf a few times and never seen the slightest evidence of full-timers, contracting or otherwise. Anyone who has stayed there will know that there's a steady turnover of visitors all the time.

It's a great site and will be sorely missed if it does eventually go.

Roger


----------



## StephandJohn

*Latest news*

Hi all
I've been away and have only just caught up on the latest news below. The campaign is now concentrated locally but they still need our signatures so if you haven't signed the petition please do so.
Thanks
Steph

The public meeting was very interesting. We were not allocated any time or space but introduced ourselves and, backed by popular demand, set ourselves up on a free table ready for discussion. A good deal of support was mustered. We found out that no plans (for a school or otherwise) have actually been finalised and no decision has been signed off on; albeit that the campsite are not allowed to renew their lease which expires at the end of the year. So there is some hope...of sorts. The Mayor is very keen to push this through, his background is in architecture and planning so he will probably feel most at home in the area of construction (or was that destruction?!). We need to get the Councillors to debate the issue before they break in June. We were told that our campaign has been making waves and is being talked about at all levels of Bristol City Council; we also have the full support of a good many Councillors in the City. The Councillor for Cabot said that he would definitely not support any plans to build residential on the site. Separately the Green Councillor highlighted the risk that "The site may be closed and then found unsuitable for a school in which case we would probably end up with yet more dockside housing." Therefore, we asked the Cabot Councillor to ask the Mayor two things, whether the Mayor would stake his reputation on there never being residential developments on the site and also how the Mayor and the Council plan to replace the £1,250,000 loss in revenue for traders, services and attractions every year. They may have a capacity problem (10 years in the making!) but destroying the campsite is not the solution. The Councillor for Cabot suggested that an alternative campsite location may (emphasise the may) be found in the future. We must be clear here, our campaign is coordinated by local people and we are not concerned about the profits of the Caravan Club. Our concern is for the effect closure will have on the local community - as outlined in our full report (18th May) found here: www.savebristolcampsite.com/our-report An unlikely change in location will NOT help those people and businesses in the vicinity of the Baltic Wharf. As before, when the matter is fully considered by local people then support builds. Our primary objective now is to reach the 3,500 signature mark and anything anyone can do to help us reach that will be very much appreciated.


----------



## Penquin

Total now 2446 signatures; 1993 on line and 453 on paper.

Please keep spreading the word.

The locality will die if the site is closed, and MANY businesses will be adversely affected. The profits of the CC are irrelevant.

Dave


----------



## oldtart

Just had a notification by e mail that nuke admin has added to this topic. When I go to open it it says this topic or post foes not exist!!

Val


----------



## Suzysetter

Just tried says no more signatures being accepted


----------



## StephandJohn

*NEWS*

Hi all

Sorry for the silence, and for the length of this posting, but things have been happening.

•	Our request, under the Freedom of Information Act (F.O.I.), for information about how the decision to close the campsite, and how the decision to use the land for a school was come to, was refused. We went to the CEO of the Campaign for Freedom of Information (C.F.O.) and he gave us all the necessary 'ammunition' to refute their spurious reasons and an appeal has now gone in. If this is refused we'll go to the Information Commissioners Office (like an ombudsman). If we have to do this it will take about six months to get a ruling; however the help we got from the C.F.O. is compelling and in other campaigns we've found it usually works. Really the council officials don't understand the F.O.I. Act and just go to a default 'secrecy' mindset. Hopefully once we've explained it to them they might change their minds.
I won't put it all on here but if anyone wants to read it all please PQ me with your email address and I'll send it.
•	The letter below is from the campaign organisers. We got enough signatures to ask the council to have an open debate on it. (If you remember the decision was made by the mayor on his own and even a lot of councillors didn't know about it until it was published in the papers)The next meeting is 22nd July and it would be helpful if we all emailed or tweeted the Mayor to ask for it to be included - details on here

Hello Steph,

Here's the link to the Open Letter to the councillors on our website: http://savebristolcampsite.com/open-letter.php
I think one of the best things to do now would be to ask forum users to read the arguments and, if they wish, email the Mayor direct with their concerns. He's the person who will make the final decision. If he only came to visit the people and businesses that rely on the campsite users then he might not be so confident. A school bus would be a great way of transporting children to a site that actually needs re-development without compromising people's livelihoods and 30 years of having a great asset for Bristol - a win-win!

Here's his contact details: 
Twitter @GeorgeFergusonx 
Email https://www.bristol.gov.uk/form/mayor/contact-mayor

The lead Green Councillor on the issue (1 of 5) came to visit the campsite and the local businesses that would be impacted by closure. On Twitter he suggested that Mayor George Ferguson visit as it made him pause to think about his reaction.

If we can get the Mayor to allow us to organise a visit for him then that will be our best chance of saving the campsite.

Onward and upwards!!!

Matt

So - lets hope we can all work together and carry on using this lovely campsite for a long while yet.

Steph


----------



## bognormike

update video presentation of petition

video


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## Penquin

Thanks for the update and the video link - talk about speed talking! All in less than 30 seconds - frankly the Mayor came out of that looking a complete pill)ck for his thought process....

I hope that the campaign progresses and is successful - it has certainly had the backing of an awful lot of people - 3769 signatures in a matter of weeks....

The next step will be fascinating please keep us posted, and thanks for the effort so far.

Dave


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## StephandJohn

*Still fighting*

Thanks Penguin for putting the video on.
This is what Matt who is running the campaign in Bristol and is the one presenting the petition said in his email to me:

.Hello Steph, hope you're well and enjoying the weather?

Here's a link to a video of us taking on City Hall! bit.ly/1pRC6ll

Feel free to share as much as possible, now is the time to pressure the Mayor!

All the best,

Matt

How to pressure the mayor is right at the end.

Thanks to all.

Steph
PS I notice that the Caravan Club in the latest magazine has a big article about Bristol, including the campsite details, but doesn't say the campsite is in danger of closing.


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## talogon

i have just returned from another visit to Baltic Wharf. 
Whilst there I emailed the mayor. the reply is below, but it doesn't look good.



Dear Mr Fleming,

I refer to your recent message, the contents of which we note. We know that tourism is vital to our city’s economy, and we continue to strive to make Bristol an attractive city for visitors and residents alike.
However, the City Council also has a legal requirement to ensure that there are enough school places and has to be innovative in its approach. The rate of growth of primary age children in Bristol is amongst the fastest in the country. The council has seen a 30% rise in the number of pupils entering the Reception Year in the last five years. Our current forecasts show that by 2017 there is a need to provide over 4,400 primary school places.
The increased demand at primary is driven by a number of factors including increased migration, increased birth rates, a reduction in the number of families moving out of the city, and families no longer using the independent sector.
The problem of providing sufficient primary age places is particularly acute in the central area of the City and options are very limited. Sometimes the provision of such places involves making difficult choices such as in the case of the Caravan Club.
We are working with the Caravan Club to explore alternative locations with them whilst also investing in excellent local education where it is required as an essential greater investment in our future economy.

On behalf of Property, Bristol City Council

Neil Piper
Principal Project Officer
Strategic Property
Bristol City Council


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## StephandJohn

Thanks. I'll send this on to Matt who is co-ordinating the campaign locally.
Doesn't sound like they are taking any notice of local opinion at all.

just got this from Matt - sorry it's so long:

www.savebristolcampsite.com 
@SaveBristolCamp

Here is a summary of our full report that can be found here http://savebristolcampsite.com/our-report.php:
The campsite has been a positive influence in the area for over 30 years
It is a great Bristol success story open all year with one of the highest occupancy rates in the whole of the UK
Our market research estimates that users spend in the region of £1,250,000 in Bristol every year.
This fresh revenue into the Bristolian system is extremely valuable to local business, attractions and services - particularly during the harder winter months
Many businesses are very concerned about how closure will affect them and the jobs they provide to local people
Closing this affordable gateway into our City also flies in the face of all the effort, time and money spent by so many people who are trying to get more people to visit Bristol.
There is no guarantee that a primary school can be built on the site. No plans have been published, a council source said that wider use will be considered, and one Councillor highlighted that we may just end up with more residential developments
Should any of the site be sold for residential development then the Mayor would be cashing in on short-term profit at the cost of long-term sustainable revenue for the Harbour Community
We can prove that the site is NOT a suitable or safe location to build a school. It is penned in by a busy road on one side (which is set to get much busier) and 11 meters of deep water on the other, there is nowhere to park and nowhere to expand in the future.
Even more worrying is the findings of the River Avon Flood Defense report given to the Council on the 1st of July 2014 which puts the site in the highest risk area for tidal surge flooding. Prevention is better than cure and the Mayor should not gamble with child safety as one accident would be one too many. (see: https://www.bristol.gov.uk/committee/2014/ua/ua000/0701_8.pdf)
There ARE alternatives! In the report we suggest another site in dire need of redevelopment just 1/3 of a mile walk away. 
We also suggest that if a school bus was to be put on the soon to be MetroBus network (which will go right past the site) then the whole of adjoining wards could be considered. 
We highlight another ideal location of a 100 meter long stretch of derelict factory buildings right next to a park with play area, green space, skate park, tennis courts, football and a SWIMMING POOL!
Bristol will be the European Green Capital in 2015 and one of the Mayor's first acts in that year would be to order the cutting down of 91 mature trees, the destruction of over 200sqm of established hedgerow and the removal of over 100+ flower baskets, tubs and borders that won the campsite the 2013 Bloom award. Destroying this amount of City Centre green space will certainly contradict, if not undermine our Green Capital status.

Our position is that this is NOT and either/or situation and with a little more creative thought we could have a win-win for Bristol; preserving the site and winter trade for the local area, and building a new asset for the future in a safer and more suitable location that needs redevelopment.


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## RichardD

Just got my monthly En Route and there is a feature on Baltic Wharf, but I could see no mention of the pending closure or advice to members about the petition.

Surely the CC should be concerned and why aren't they getting their members involved to fit the pending closure.

Richard


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## StephandJohn

I think the CC isn't getting involved in the campaign because they don't want to jeopardise getting another site.


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## StephandJohn

I emailed the response to the email Taligon sent to the mayor to Matt, the campaign organiser - see his answer below:

Hi Steph,

Yep they have been copying and pasting that one for months now. We sent the below email in reply which has got a lot of support from the Councillors and led to info about us being able to make a statement and objections in the planning meetings should it get that far.

Title: Are you aware of the danger Mr Piper?

Dear Mr Piper,

We have cc'd every Councillor in this email to you and the Mayor in the hope that we might actually get a considered response, or even an acknowledgment, from either of you.

Are you aware of this River Avon Flood Defence Report, published on the 1st of July? https://www.bristol.gov.uk/committee/2014/ua/ua000/0701_8.pdf In it you will see that the location of the Baltic Wharf campsite is placed in the highest risk area for future flooding through tidal surge.

Please also consider the local knowledge that the campsite is penned in by 11 meters of deep water on one side and a very busy road on the other, which is only set to get busier as the 4 lane plans are implemented.

In light of the above, what makes you so confident that you are willing to disregard both the expert evidence found in the Flood Defence Report and the warnings of local people, to risk the safety of Bristolian children by forcing them to go to school in this unsuitable and dangerous location?

Nobody in their right mind thinks they can reliably predict the impact of our changing climate on this area; unless of course they also think they're King Canute! The rational decision would be to employ a prevention is better than cure strategy. We find it utterly disgraceful that you are willing to push through these short-sighted and ill-conceived plans to build a school in this dangerous location, where there is no room for expansion, just to hit your own internal targets.

We are extremely concerned about child safety and think that one accident would be one too many. You say you have a legal requirement to provide school places, well you also have a legal requirement to provide them in a safe place! Surely it would be better to only be concerned with a few flooded vans rather than the disruption of education and the safety of children.

There ARE other far safer and more suitable sites available. Please read our full report on the issue found here: http://savebristolcampsite.com/our-report.php The report also highlights the many other reasons to keep this tremendous asset for Bristol. Not least the devastating economic impact that removing £1.25 million from the local economy every year will have on business, attractions, services and jobs; particularly those of young adults.

Please feel free to contact us if you would like to discuss a creative solution that would prove to be a win-win for Bristol in both the short and longer-term.

Best regards,

Matt, Lou and the Save Bristol Campsite Team
www.savebristolcampsite.com
@SaveBristolCamp


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## padraigpost

Just read a post on the Motorhome fun forum that the Caravan club have been given an extra years lease on the Baltic wharf site, apparently the council have said that while they finalise plans for the new school rather than have the site empty the club can have one more year, lets hope it is true.
Don


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## Penquin

I hope that is true and is the first step in a gradual climb down.....

the flood defence report consideration is damning and surely building flood plains is no longer permitted?

I hope that it is confirmed elsewhere e.g. the CC........

Dave


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## StephandJohn

*Good news (hopefully)*

Hi everyone
Just received this today from Matt who is running the campaign to save the Baltic Wharf Caravan Site. 
Although he doesn't say it in his email to me the rumour is that the council have said the Caravan Club can stay open for another year while they finalise the plans for the school. Let's hope this is their way to back down over their bad decision to close.
Thanks everyone who has been behind us in the campaign..
Steph and John

Hello All! Apologies for the lack of communication. We've been having quite a few 'behind the scenes' meetings which can now be shared. 
Ultimately The Caravan Club have announced today that they will be keeping the site open until at least August 2015! Many thanks to Debra for the link today: http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/news-and-events/news/club-news/2014/august/future-of-baltic-wharf
We've been meeting with the Mayor of Bristol who, understandably, has many pressures for school places in an expanding City. However, he is also now very aware of the value this site brings to the local community and keen to explore any potential solutions. In his words, "This conversation is not over!".
We have also met with the 3 high level Bristol City Council Officers leading the plans for redevelopment of the site. They have our report and are now fully informed of the HUGE value that the site brings economically, culturally and environmentally to the local area. We also highlighted that scrapping such a wonderful facility that has been in place for over 30 years, would fundamentally change the nature of the local area. Will will continue pushing for a win-win solution throughout the entire process.
As always, we have kept a distance from the Caravan Club itself in order to preserve the independence and credibility of our Campaign. However, if anybody wished to press them on their formal position then that would certainly be an interesting piece of information to be shared!
Thanks for your continued support everyone! If we keep up our efforts then we could save this unique and valuable asset for Bristol!

Matt
Save Bristol Campsite Campaign


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## bognormike

excellent News Matt. As Dave says, perhaps they will go further and sort it long term.

In the meantime, get in there and book up while there's space!

baltic wharf booking page


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## Sheeds

*Closing camp sites*

The same happens unnoticed in downunder OZ. "Free camping" sites now incur $fees ranging from $zero to $25 per night! This certainly restricts those on limited travel budgets. And sometimes there are no facilities and the $fees still stand. State Government "Parks and Gardens" departments are looking for income after Federal lads reduced State and Council funding.


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## stewartwebr

Bet it's fully booked already by the usual crowd.


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## DABurleigh

Last time I looked there were only 11 isolated days with at least one free pitch all year. I tried to book from Prague the evening bookings were open, but no luck :-(

Dave


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## stewartwebr

My point exactly Dave. Although I don't like to see any site close. The closure of this one will not effect many of us, as it seems to always be fully booked and only a select few ever seem to be lucky enough to secure pitches.


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## StephandJohn

Since the CC changed the rules about cancelling you can usually get in a week or two before you want to go if you can be a bit flexible about the dates.


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## pomme1

Stewart,
That's a slightly perverse argument. Closure will obviously affect those of us who have bookings and a substantial number of whom, if not the majority, based on my observations are MH users.
I have never knowingly being one of a 'select few' in any field, nor do I have a funny handshake. I simply take pot luck like many others. I also have a healthy disregard for conspiracy theories.

Roger


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## stewartwebr

pomme1 said:


> Stewart,
> That's a slightly perverse argument. Closure will obviously affect those of us who have bookings and a substantial number of whom, if not the majority, based on my observations are MH users.
> I have never knowingly being one of a 'select few' in any field, nor do I have a funny handshake. I simply take pot luck like many others. I also have a healthy disregard for conspiracy theories.
> 
> Roger


Roger,

It was not intended as an argument, perverse or not. It was a fact. I have tried for almost 5 years to book a pitch at this site without success. However, when I pass it seems to be some people are continually more successful securing a number of peak period bookings than I. So to that point I don't give a jot if it closes....now that is perverse!


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## Dill

I have only been to this site once. I did notice at the time when looking for a pitch that cones had been placed on some of the better pitches and commented to the warden after these pitches had been empty for the two days we were staying. I can't remember what was said but did get the feeling that these pitches were saved for someone.

We have had no wish to return since. So for me if it closes it closes.

Dill


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## nidge1

Dill said:


> I have only been to this site once. I did notice at the time when looking for a pitch that cones had been placed on some of the better pitches and commented to the warden after these pitches had been empty for the two days we were staying. I can't remember what was said but did get the feeling that these pitches were saved for someone.
> 
> We have had no wish to return since. So for me if it closes it closes.
> 
> Dill


I have been to Bristol a few times and must say the warden a couple of years ago did have a strange attitude.

We parked up the same way as our neighbour and I had completely forgotten about the dreaded correct way rule. After a few hours the jobsworth warden came along and said we would have to move because we were the wrong side of the "gold and diamond encrusted peg".

When I pointed out that we had parked the same way as our neighbour he replied..... "Ah well those 2 Motorhomer's are mates so they can park like that".

Not sure mates or not why you would want to be a few yards closer and so there must be 1 rule for some and another rule for others.

Moved the motorhome and off the warden went a very contented little bunny!!

Nidge


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## Dill

"Ah well those 2 Motorhomer's are mates so they can park like that".

Typical Nidge, I am glad it wasn't me I think I would have lost it with him. I would have refused to move unless his mates did the same.

Dill


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## bognormike

Me too


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## nidge1

Dill said:


> "Ah well those 2 Motorhomer's are mates so they can park like that".
> 
> Typical Nidge, I am glad it wasn't me I think I would have lost it with him. I would have refused to move unless his mates did the same.
> 
> Dill


I probably would have done 9 times out of 10 but it was lovely day and the following week we were off to the South of France for 5 weeks.I was feeling in a upbeat mood so I thought why not let the little s--- have his golden moment and his self-importance for the day!!!

Nidge


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## GMJ

Not wishing to read all 19 pages of this thread...could someone advise if this site is still running or not?

I did try to book last year but couldn't...I cant remember why now.

I quite fancy visiting Brizzle...haven't been there for years

ta

Graham


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## StephandJohn

Yes its open for at least this year. The campaign is still ongoing locally tp keep it open.
People complain that its difficult to get in to but we've found that its often easier if you are flexible with your dates and if you can leave booking until nearer the time you want to go away and get a cancellation


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## klyne

StephandJohn said:


> Yes its open for at least this year. The campaign is still ongoing locally tp keep it open.
> People complain that its difficult to get in to but we've found that its often easier if you are flexible with your dates and if you can leave booking until nearer the time you want to go away and get a cancellation


The Club are still saying they are only accepting bookings up to the end of August 2015, is it possible this could be extended?

David


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## StephandJohn

I've emailed the campaigners to see if they know anything about this date ebign extended. They have some behind closed doors contact with the CC who don't want to close the campsite but have been given notice.


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## bognormike

to update things!

see the campaign group's Facebook page for details

https://www.facebook.com/BalticWharfCampsite

for the text see below:

"Hello all! It is possible to save this site. The frustrating news is that there is only one organisation that now has the power to do so, that's the Caravan Club, but they are simply not interested. With your help we've put the issue on the local political map, got loads of support, petitioned the Council, lobbied Councillors, discussed with the Mayor, collated a full report that proves the site's worth plus how to counter the Council's plans and actually made it possible to be saved! We're not kidding! The Council have listened and delayed closure. Unfortunately the Caravan Club HQ are simply not acting in the interests of their members, or local staff, but pursuing an easy life.
We still think members do have one more chance to save the site because we hear the Caravan Club HQ and Bristol City Council are in talks right now! Members interested in saving the site should make their voices heard by emailing HQ direct, demanding they act on your behalf! Details below. Also, get on the forums and rouse everyone else to do the same. We're not CC members ourselves, just locals who love the place and its positive influence on the community. We can't do anything more without the Club's support, and we're not keen on the campaign being used as a bargaining chip by HQ either…so over to you!
Again, we really cannot help any further if the CC are not going to support you and the campaign, or even register a challenge to the Council plans. Which is a shame for Bristol, the site, the local economy, the community, the site staff and for members of the Club. Come on, you've been there for over 30 years!
Good luck! Here's who you should contact:
Tony Barnett, Head of Estates at The Caravan Club email: [email protected]
If that fails then you can call HQ here for an alternative email: 01342 326 944
Nick Lomas is the Director General and by the same logic his email should be [email protected]
You can go to the rubbish bin here too: http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/contact-us
Don't get brushed off…keep pushing campers!"

if the CC & Bristol council are in talks now, perhaps there is hope?


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## cabby

Emails sent.

cabby


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## nidge1

Doesn't really make sense! Why wouldn't the club be interested in saving the site?
Must be one of the clubs most used sites, you can never get a reservation at the weekend.

Nidge


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## bognormike

but of course they could be in talks to set up a site on council land in some godforsaken place in the middle of nowhere, (which was an option apparently in the discussions before) which of course would be absolutely useless for easy access to the city.......


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## Dill

If the CC are not going to support you and the campaign, or even register a challenge to the Council plans. Which is a shame for Bristol, the site, the local economy, the community, the site staff and for members of the Club. 

Typical of the CC can't be arsed attitude.


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## peedee

bognormike said:


> but of course they could be in talks to set up a site on council land in some godforsaken place in the middle of nowhere,..


Or an increased rent for retaining the site?

peedee


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## oldtart

E mails sent

Val


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## Jamsieboy

Emails sent to both.
The Club appear to have taken the line "the Council have served notice of termination so let's talk to them about a new site. Best not to upset them!!"


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## GMJ

Email sent to both gentlemen


Graham:smile2:


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## GMJ

*Response received from the Caravan Club below...*

Thank you for your email and interest in the Baltic Wharf site passed onto me by my colleague Tony Barnett.

The Caravan Club is very aware of the popularity of Baltic Wharf Caravan Site with members and of the very significant contribution the site makes to the local economy in Bristol.

The lease on the site officially came to an end in 2013. However, The Club has had a close constructive and cooperative relationship with Bristol City Council for over 30 years and through working together, we secured the continued operation of the site throughout 2014 and to date. This has given caravanners and motorhome owners visiting Bristol an additional 20 months enjoyment of the site already.

Bristol City Council has ultimately decided on an alternative longer term use for the site for education purposes to meet the needs of Bristol residents. Until such time as they finalise their plans, we will work closely with them to discuss the continuance of the site for our members use in the shorter term.

We hope to be able to communicate further news as discussions progress.

Kind regards
Brian

Brian Morgan
Interim Head of Group Communications
The Caravan Club


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## klyne

Dill said:


> If the CC are not going to support you and the campaign, or even register a challenge to the Council plans. Which is a shame for Bristol, the site, the local economy, the community, the site staff and for members of the Club.
> 
> Typical of the CC can't be arsed attitude.


Of course the Club won't publically support such a campaign. Any dealings with the Council will be confidential and I suspect that is more likely to bring success than making meaningless comments in public. I think the best the Club can do is to keep extending the closing date until the Council want to take over the land. That is in the interests of both Club members and the Council. However there will come a time when the site will close and I suspect there is very little the club can realistically do about that.

David


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## bognormike

David

a second option there is that the council realise that it's a bloody stupid place to put a school, there being a deep water dock on one side, and a tidal river the other; so they will find another bit of land which will suffice. Then of course they either set up a new lease for the CC or sell the land to build loads of flats for rich people, because it will make more money for them than the CC lease........ which is another prediction from the cynics amongst us when this was being discussed last year. Cynical, me? too bloody right! :frown2:


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## cabby

I got the same email reply as gmj today.

cabby


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## klyne

Mike


I somehow doubt we will ever see a school built on the site and your idea of flats is far more likely. Unless the CC were willing to pay the market
value for the site I am sure that is the way it will go. The site is small and even at peak occupancy I somehow doubt that buying the site outright would be viable. 


David


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## bognormike

I tend to agree with you there David; looking at it financially it could well be that it's too small to be viable if they actually do keep it, but would people pay more for the position? I wouldn't mind an extra £1 a night. I don't think there's any reason to doubt what the CC have said all along, that the lease ran out & they wanted to renew. It's Bristol council that have apparently been underhand here, if the site isn't suitable for a school why did they use that as an excuse in the first place, rather than coming clean and saying they would rather make as much as they can by flogging the land off for flats? Surely there's some argument that an amenity that provides income for the city overall, be it from rent or money spent locally by the visitors, is a more community spirited option rather than chasing a quick profit? Will money win again?


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## peedee

Does the purchase have to be viable David? Land is an asset, it certainly won't depreciate. It might even appreciate faster than money in the bank. If the purchase was on the cards then I see no reason why the Club should not do so as an investment for the members.

peedee


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## oldtart

I got the same e mail response as GMJ and Cabby from Brian Morgan.

I did make a further comment to him and the reply was that there were still on going discussions. 

Val


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## klyne

peedee said:


> Does the purchase have to be viable David? Land is an asset, it certainly won't depreciate. It might even appreciate faster than money in the bank. If the purchase was on the cards then I see no reason why the Club should not do so as an investment for the members.
> 
> peedee


Peedee

Do the Club think like that? Looking at the number of pitches and the top price for a couple works out at a maximum income of about half a million a year. In reality this figure will be less because prices vary across the year and although its very popular it won't be occupied 100% all the time. If the land were being sold for up to £5 million perhaps it would be worth it. I suspect the stumbling block is whether the Council want the site to continue or whether they would prefer the council tax and ground rent that a housing development would provide? If it was on offer to buy the site then I would hope the club would give serious consideration to your suggestion. However their track record is not good as they have been prepared to walk away from other sites when they have not got what they wanted, Braithwaite Fold being an example.

David


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## oldtart

I've just had a e mail from Brian Morgan saying that there will shortly be a posting on the CC site to say they are delighted to have signed a new lease from September 2015 for three years for Baltic Wharf!

Val


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## peedee

Its official it has been posted on the Club site.
peedee


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## talogon

Peedee is right I have just read this on the CC website, great news for all that worked so hard to keep it.


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## bognormike

oldtart said:


> I've just had a e mail from Brian Morgan saying that there will shortly be a posting on the CC site to say they are delighted to have signed a new lease from September 2015 for three years for Baltic Wharf!
> 
> Val


that's excellent news!


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## Matchlock

Nice to hear that the CC still have it, still never been able to get a booking there though, still it proves it is popular.

Barry


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## klyne

Still begs the question whether they would have achieved the same result had they joined the protest as some wanted? Quiet diplomacy often pays dividends albeit only for another three years. All sorts of things can happen at both the Club and the Council in that time.


David


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## peedee

Surely it begs the question what would have happened if there had been no protest. It would be interesting to know why the council "U-Turned".
peedee


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## Brock

Is anyone going to say well done to the Caravan Club for navigating through difficult waters to reach a reasonable solution?

I've been in a similar situation on two occasions regarding the closure of offices. It's not easy balancing the needs of all stakeholders and playing your cards right - with the Ace always being those who can legitimately operate outside the discussions, such as 'protest groups'.

The Caravan Club gets my thanks for a job well done.


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## oldtart

Brock. Referring to my earlier post about the e mail to me from Brian Morgan. I did thank him for taking the trouble to e mail me personally and thanked him and the people who had been in the negotiations for the site.

I do think that all to often we can complain but I believe it is very important to recognise and thank people for their efforts, help ore advice. 

Val


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