# Ducato head gasket or something else



## philip77 (Sep 29, 2007)

Hi 
My 1991 campervan has a 2.5tdi Sofim engine. I last used it 2 weeks ago on a fifty mile round trip and it ran ok. Yesterday It started normally and then stopped after a couple of seconds. After much spinning of the starter motor it reluctantly started. When I keep the revs up it seems normal but when on tickover its quite "lumpy" and chucks out blue smoke which clears only when I rev it. I am beginning to suspect a head gasket problem. I don't know if the oil or water levels have changed. Its refusing to start today but theres is a fair bit of blue/white smoke emanating even though it wont go. 
Does anyone have an opinion before I start a dreaded stripdown ? 
Thanks


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

hi Philip, conduct some tests before a stripdown..

A deisel compression check, a good look at the coolant for oil contamination, same for oil filler cap-disptick.

mayonaise is the norm when oil and water mix...

these would be a start. 

I will think of more or someone will.,. champagne gone to my head (company been taken over just now!)


----------



## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

I am no expert on diesel engines but whitish smoke would indicate to me that you are getting water in the cylinders from somewhere. The only diesel I have owned is our current Peugeot 1.9. Having read the owners manual I see that there is a method of extracting water from the diesel pump every now and again. Could it be something to do with this before you go stripping the head down?

JohnW


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Hi Whizzo good point..

I also have an XUD 1.9 TD... 

Water in diesel should be 'caught' in the fuel filter housing.. there is a drain tap often at the bottom of this, to remove the -heavier- water...


----------



## philip77 (Sep 29, 2007)

Me again
On a lighter note, Theres a blackbird or starling in the trees behind us thats taking the mickey by copying the sounds of my starter motor and singing them out - honestly- its really quite obvious and carries on for about 5 mins!- and only happens after Ive been spinning it over. Dont think it will get far if its after a mate!


----------



## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

It'll be a starling. They are brilliant mimics.

JohnW


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

a startling starling starting


----------



## gm6vxb (Nov 3, 2007)

Before you start check the fuel filter, not sure but there should be a water drain on it. If not take the filter out clean and replace. Water could cause the white smoke problem. Also running weak causes the same problem so again a fuel related problem.
If the van has been stood for a while there is also a problem with diesel fuel going stringy. Had this on a Peugeot pick up years ago. Had to change the fuel filter three times and empty the tank before it ran normally. Symptoms were juddering to a halt, not starting well, and not ticking over.
Blue smoke is oil leaking into the combustion chambers but this could be comng from anywhere. Get the engine running well first before doing anything to check this.
If you can get the van running then give it a good warm up (listening for nasty noises) and see if it still blue smokes.

We have big birds up here, a helicopter 200 metres from the house checking a warning beacon at Cairnbulg point, noisy.
Martin.


----------



## jamiealana (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi philip .I had the same problem with a ducato about 3 yrs ago mate. And my one had just came back from a run with no problem, Iwent to start it the next day and it smoked and sounded like it was only going on 2 cylinders then 3 then 4 and you could not see for smoke, i thought head gasket as well but after i got someone in to have a look it was water in the fuel.new filters and cleaned out the pump,then took it for a run and it was fine, but i remember he put a thing onto the top of the radiator to check for gasses in the water and checked the oil which was both fine, so i,d go for bad fuel mate.ALAN


----------



## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

johng1974 said:


> a startling starling starting


You not fallen asleep yet then? 

Dougie.


----------



## jamiealana (Nov 18, 2006)

HAVE NOW. NO IMPUTE. Sore head now think i,l go listen to some birds :wink:


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

> You not fallen asleep yet then?


nearly doougie 

hangin ....


----------



## philip77 (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for all taking the trouble to reply. I changed the fuel filter as suggested and eventually got it running. Still lots of white smoke until warm and then plenty blue smoke. Took it for a run and it behaved but still too much blue smoke which builds up on tickover and doesnt clear. If I remove the oil filler cap I can feel air pressure pumping out- dont suppose thats normal? theres no "mayonaise", the water level hasnt dropped as far as i can tell. Prior to the van not starting incident there was just the "normal" diesel blue smoke on start up. 
all suggestions welcome! i am not not relishing the idea of pulling the cylinder head off, and my wallet is already slim enough!
Phil


----------



## gm6vxb (Nov 3, 2007)

Have a look around for breather pipes from either the head or block area. These normally go into the air intake very close to the manifold. Normally an inch diameter pipe maybe with other pipes connecting to it.
Petrol engines used to have a flame trap fitted in the main breather pipe, these were like a bottle cleaner but in brass. Have seen these get blocked up.
Possibly they are fitted to diesels as well.
If you can identify the breather pipe it may be worth disconnecting it at the input (block/head end) and seeing if there is still pressure. From memory you should just be able to feel air blowing, anything more major would be suspicious, definate sucking sounds something serious but get a good mechanic to check before committing to major engine works.
Start up blue smoke could be worn valve seals. Also on overrun when you put your foot back on the throttle a puff of blue smoke is a definate sign. Personnally I would not worry too much about that as it's a fairly major job to replace them and it will not cause any other problems for a long time. A lot of older overhead cam engines can suffer from this as the valve tops are always immersed in oil so even a small defect will let oil past the seals.
If it blue smokes all the time even on load then back pressure in the sump, or piston rings going.

PM me if you need any other info. 
Martin.
Grandad for the fourth time this morning (little girl called Molly).


----------



## jamiealana (Nov 18, 2006)

*smoke prob*

Hi phil It,s Alan here again ,I was talking to one of my mates about ur prob.And he said if u done the checks for water in the oil and the pressure test with the radiator for gasses in the water and as u have changed the filters there is only 2 things it can be, dirty fuel I.E water in the fuel tank or more likely the egr valve at the turbo sticking or the seal IN ur turbo leaking that will cause smoke as the oil will just get pulled straight though the turbo and into the engine and out the exhaust, there is a bit more imput for you phil but he did say couple of nice easy tests to check there is a big rubber pipe across the front of ur engine from the turbo, with the engine running , squeeze the pipe and with the pipe squeezed give the engine a rev and the pipe will go hard and back into shape this tells u the turbo is ok and that none of the turbo pipes are burst or leaking.As for the EGR valve if it is sticking this will cause the smoke you would need to change it , best of luck Phil. Hope this helps u mate ALAN  . PHIL it is a diesel you have just was not sure after reading the reply above from martin :roll: bye for now AND CONGRATULATIONS MARTIN ON LITTLE MOLLY, :BIG:


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
just a thought, is there any chance that petrol has been put in by mistake, also check the air filter and its inlet pipe for clogging, birds have been known to nest in awkward places, could explain the birdsong imitations,
Regards,
Chris


----------



## chapter (May 1, 2005)

check the earth lead the aa unbolted it cleaned it and the van started and ran fine
chapter


----------



## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*fuel prob*

This looks to me that one of your Injectors has gone down, these can be serviced at any Injector/diesel workshop. just one thought have you put petrol in by mistake?


----------



## philip77 (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for all this input, I'm flattered.
I definitely filled up with diesel, I still have the receipt from a month back- or rather she does!
phil


----------



## philip77 (Sep 29, 2007)

Hi all
Thanks to all who contributed on our behalf.
I eventually gave up messing around and took it a garage. Its back now running well and has a brand new MOT to boot. total cost £187, and well happy. The diagnosis was a slipped tooth on injection pump via the timing belt. I had checked this and everything seemed to be ok - you live and learn! 
I reversed it out of the garage no problems, got home pulled on the drive and tried to select reverse to straighten up, guess what - cant select reverse. Will it ever end? 
Phil


----------

