# cat convertor



## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Morn,what a night we had,heard a noise about 1am this morning,looked out window could heard a racket sound so through some shorts on and looked under my m/h and found this low life un bolting my cat,i got him run him through our hedge then gave him the hinding of his life until he begged me to stop,i carried on, he then was able to get to the car he came in with me holding his hoody they started to drive away i let go as i couldnt keep up,i also was bear footed,wife was calling police who came about 15minutes later,now i need to get 2 new rubber mounts he cut and bolt it back up,like most of us we work hard fo rour things or have done in the past.also looking in to a lock for my cat.thanks matt


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Good job you caught him in time,a catalytic converter is expensive to replace.This type of crime is becoming more common because of the high price of scrap metal.

I wonder where you would have stood legally if the thief had been injured and decided to press charges,in my opinion the low lifes deserve all they get. :x


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

No all his injuries would have come from him trying to get out fom under the van in a hurry. :lol: :lol: 

cabby


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

sadly, lowlife scum get far too much protection by the courts. When you try to protect your family and belongings using a bit of force that's when you become the defendant - you should be praised not punished.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Although brave, it was also possibly not the best way, once he'd stopped you should have either held him for the police or let him go.

Just hope he doesn't come back with his mates, these low lifes tend to know more of the same.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I agree with Kev on his first point.

And 'hero', if I were your lawyer I would advise you to delete your original post.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> I agree with Kev on his first point.
> 
> And 'hero', if I were your lawyer I would advise you to delete your original post.
> 
> Geoff


Too late, and having Hero as a user name is asking for it too methinks, but I'm sure he's a mild calm huggy sort of bloke really, just don't get within arms reach, or under his van.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Kev

The username is only 'hero' with a lower case 'h' , but the MH is 'Hero' with an upper case 'H'.

But as far as I know there is not an aspiration in Essex but maybe with a few cats under their belts they could aspire to something, but not if they were stupid enough to waken the owner by using a racket (sic) tool.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> The username is only 'hero' with a lower case 'h' , but the MH is 'Hero' with an upper case 'H'.Geoff


WHOOSH :!: :!: :!: You got me there Geoff, not a clue what that means


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Sorry Kev - it is all about the haitches

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Come on Geoff it's the weekend, I don't do confused on my days off :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sandalwood (Feb 14, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your problems. Highbridge Motor Homes have had quite a few pinched and now they are welding them on. Will speak to them myself as do not want mine pinched.

Cally


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Here's the answer

Just carry the right spanner/socket, I wonder if security wheel nuts might web an even simpler method.

Of course they could still cut them off, but most of these peeps are lazy B's so would go somewhere else instead.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

It would appear that most of these thefts are carried out by laying down alongside the driver door area to unbolt the cat.
The thing to do besides using shear nuts on the fixing bolts is to physically stop someone being able to reach the cat. 
One thought I had was of was a plate that you drove the wheel onto which had a side extension covering the door to ground. Another was a removable plate that is placed inside the door and then outside and down to the ground. I think there is clearance for it to work.

As you may have determined I was not a mechanical engineer in my working lfe but I am sure it would be fairly simple to make the job of removing the cat harder for someone without access to a pit or lift. I did have a look at a catclamp but they are not really designed to be easily fitted to an X250. I was surprised that the suppliers do not have apicture or an example of one fitted to an X250 it being the source of most cat thefts.


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## hero (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi all,i dont think im a hero or living up to one,the name came from when our m/h was first bought thats what the number plate reads,also you try holding on to someone wating for the law to come.when hes fighting back,i was getting the better of the scum,or let them go and say cheers mate have a nice evening,i saw red and hes was robbing me.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The law permits you to use "reasonable" force to protect yourself or property. 

If the little **** has stopped and is running away then your propertty is no longer at risk and you are on dodgy ground. 

Unless of course you were attempting to aprehend him and he was resisting it. I am sure that in the half light you saw something glinting in his hand, thought it was a knife, so acted accordingly DIDNT YOU :wink: ???


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## sandalwood (Feb 14, 2010)

Wonder if the outside alarm was on as we slept. Would that go off if the bxxxxxxs were fiddling under|MH

Cally


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

hero said:


> Hi all,i dont think im a hero or living up to one,the name came from when our m/h was first bought thats what the number plate reads,also you try holding on to someone wating for the law to come.when hes fighting back,i was getting the better of the scum,or let them go and say cheers mate have a nice evening,i saw red and hes was robbing me.


Just be careful and make sure you don't become a statistic. There are more important things to loose than the cat.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/feb/22/helencarter


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## Glengyle (Mar 18, 2007)

Just had a look at my van and it looks so easy to access and remove. I would be able to park my van so that the underside could only be accessed from the passenger side and not from the front or drivers side. But even then it looks like someone of a thin build would be able to get at the cat from the passenger side. Now don't laugh but how about a 1" wooden board that you reverse the front wheels on to. The board would be built up to a suitable height in the vicinity of the cat and access areas to prevent anyone getting at it when the van is parked up. As Ray mentions above it looks like it would be difficult, if at all possible, to fit the Catclamp to the X250. Anyone have any other solutions? :?


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## aikidomo (Jan 8, 2008)

Well done I say.
Recently in the Braintree District the local Plods arrested and put away some low life scroat bags for this crime over 90 vans were targeted in the general area where I live over a long period of time the pleaded guilty to some but asked ect if others were taking into account, usual legal rubbishy gooble-de-****. :roll: 
The police said it was easy pickings for them, although they only averaged a pittance for the precious metal, they cased out places first and targeted quite new vans, all vans not just Motor homes. 8O 
Clive.


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## CPW2007 (Aug 17, 2007)

Glengyle said:


> (Snipped) Anyone have any other solutions? :?


How about one of these under the m/home?

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Regards

Chris


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Security nuts, or a big dog.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

I've thought about it and reckon that one solution might be a length of reinforcing bar welded to the exhaust pipe each side of the cat and then tack welded onto the cat itself. 
It would prevent the cat simply being unbolted and also prevent the use of a pipe cutters on the exhaust pipe.


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## carolynis21 (Dec 4, 2009)

*not on your own*

How awful,I cant image what it would be like to have / see that happening.

Unfortunately, we have had 2 cat's stolen while our MH was in storage ! 
After the 1st theft (at approx £1400 insurance claim) , we hat a cat clamp fitted & cat etched (at cost £280)
This did not deter the B* they unbolted the clamp, took the bolts and the cat & kindly left the clamp.
We had a 2nd Cat fitted (at £800 insurance claim) and now have security bolts on the clamp
Both thefts were from same storage area and we have now moved to a gold cassoa site.

Cant wait to get next years insurance quote for the MH and car !!!!

Advice.If possible park up so they cant get underneath, even if you use a metal frame to stop them. BTW the vechile next to us had a clamp , but Cat is right in middle of vechile so guess the B* was a little large to get under MH.


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## sandalwood (Feb 14, 2010)

*Re: not on your own*

Sorry to hear about your thefts. Where in the country are you??? HAve had concerns myself about bolting the thing, but have been adviswed that the 'Bs' will get it off anyhow should they need it. I wonder if anyone has come up with a failsafe solution to this. Hope MH insurance is not too high next year for you!!!

Cally


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I wonder if it is posible to modify a cheaper cat so that it will fit? i do not believe it will make any difference to the emmissions which in any event are not checked as part of the MOT.
I thought something like this:
cat conv

It should not be too hard to modify it to fit. I wonder what is so special about the genuine item for it too cost £500+ more.

I have seen the genuine article for sale in Belgium for hundreds of £'s cheaper than Fiat sell for in the UK. Even with postage it is cheaper than many insurance excesses so why get the insurer involved?

This is sold on the internet, No photo so cannot confirmit will fit but the details imply it will:

Fiat Ducato (R103) CATALYST
Warranty:12 Months 
System Code:CIT5038H

Fitment:Fiat Ducato Jtd 2.3 Diesel 
Year Range:10/2006 to present 
Body Type:Any 
Category:Catalytic Converters 
CC:2300 
Additional Info:Jtd 
Additional Info:Mk4 (06- )

>Delivery or collection from one of our 14 depots?
£301.82 ex VAT
(£362.18 inc VAT)


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

What about a senor linked to the water pump so that it sprays them while they are under the under the van.

I am just glad we don't have one fitted to our van.

Andy


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

My 2d worth: The various UK Police forces should make it a priority to keep raiding all the scrap merchants until they stop buying stolen cat convertors. If the dodgy scrap merchants feel the heat is too strong the market will dry up and the low lifes will stop stealing cat convertors. 

There also needs to be a marking system for cat convertors to make them traceable. 


SD


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*why not*

Must be a great money making op for someone out there with a welder bits of pipe/flat plate/round bar to knock up a simple flanged pipe to replace the cat 
My 2007/8 ducato would be a simple job and as has been stated a cat is not required for MOT as its a smoke test or put the cat back on for mot
Materiasl cost must be less than £5 sell for £35/£50 not a bad little earner
Stainless steel "de-cat" pipes are on ebay for cars at this price

Just a thought
Ray


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: why not*



airstream said:


> Must be a great money making op for someone out there with a welder bits of pipe/flat plate/round bar to knock up a simple flanged pipe to replace the cat
> My 2007/8 ducato would be a simple job and as has been stated a cat is not required for MOT as its a smoke test or put the cat back on for mot
> Materiasl cost must be less than £5 sell for £35/£50 not a bad little earner
> Stainless steel "de-cat" pipes are on ebay for cars at this price
> ...


Some later vehicles (Euro 5 maybe??) have an electrical connection to the cat that "reports" to the ECU that the cat is there and working. If the vehicle is "de-catted" the ECU flags it as a fault and may go into "limp home" mode.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Do the Lambada*

Hi,
If your ex is fitted with a lambada.oxygen sensor it is normally up stream of the cat or fitted to the inlet end of the cat itself

The sensor measures air/fuel ratio so the ecu can ajust the injection system to the correct stoichiometric mixture

The decat pipes on ebay will if required have a boss welded to the cat so as to enable the sensor to be used in conjunction with the pipe

Some of these de cat pipes are disguised as catalytic converters to maintain a "standard " looking exhaust - wonder why?

In my case - no sensor on the cat or downstream of it so no problem

Must get the welding set back from son in law

Regards Ray


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: why not*



Stanner said:


> airstream said:
> 
> 
> > Must be a great money making op for someone out there with a welder bits of pipe/flat plate/round bar to knock up a simple flanged pipe to replace the cat
> ...


What man has made man can work out a 'get around'. I suspect the sensor is just an electrical resistance so fitting an appropriate value resistor across the connector would fool the ECU.


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## sandalwood (Feb 14, 2010)

*Re: Do the Lambada*

Tks RAy

am paranoid about the cat being pinched, although we alweays stip in good sites. Maybe in French towns, they get pinching if I am in car park eh???
Cally


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Do the Lambada*



sandalwood said:


> Tks RAy
> 
> am paranoid about the cat being pinched, although we alweays stip in good sites. Maybe in French towns, they get pinching if I am in car park eh???
> Cally


I would hazard a guess that my cat is more likely to be stolen from my MH whilst it is on my drive in sleepy Corfe Mullen than it is in an aire or car park in France. I have found that on aires that the other MH people who are there soon get to know who is also there and in which unit. The chances of strangers doing anything suspicious is remote.
The most likely place for it to be stolen is a storage site in the UK.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*ebay?*

Hi all,
Just had a look on ebay - "fiat ducato decat pipe" and one item comes up
Item number: 320734770885 
FIAT DUCATO 3.0L DECAT PIPE

Says its for a 3.0 litre but the size/dimensions/hanger are identical to what is required for my 2.3 -- 130

I would not have thought the larger engine had the same dia ex pipe as the 2.3?

However the price is a joke at £114 but if your cat has been nicked it may be a cheap way out

Good Luck Ray


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Do the Lambada*



airstream said:


> Hi,
> If your ex is fitted with a lambada.oxygen sensor it is normally up stream of the cat or fitted to the inlet end of the cat itself


But aren't Lambda sensors only fitted to petrol engines, as only petrol engines need a stoichiometric fuel ratio - diesels don't.

I perhaps should have said that some late _diesel_ vehicles appear to be fitted with some form of sensor that tells the ECU whether the cat is present/working and I think it was Heatherchloe's problem in this thread.
https://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-104926-days0-orderasc-0.html

I don't know what the electrical connection is, but I doubt if it's a Lambda sensor as one wouldn't measure anything a diesel needs to know.


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## sandalwood (Feb 14, 2010)

Yes I agree, after reading about thefts in UK, however, our insurance demands lock up. secure gates, camera etc, so trist we are safe.

Cally


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*yes they do*

Hi,
All fuels used in "combustion have an ideal stoichiometric fuel ratio
Petrol I think is 14.6 to 1, Diesel is 14.5 to 1 and LPG is 15 .? 
Diesel engines use a "wide range" lambada sensor 
As I stated sensor is upstream of the cat as one function is to protect the cat yhe other to monitor and control the air fuel ratio

Regards Ray


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: yes they do*



airstream said:


> Petrol I think is 14.6 to 1, Diesel is 14.5 to 1 and LPG is 15 .?
> Diesel engines use a "wide range" lambada sensor


The stoichiometric ratio of a diesel is just the ratio that the air and fuel burn at, regardless of the amount of air actually present.

Unlike a petrol (or LPG) engine the ratio does not need to (in fact can't) be controlled because diesels operate with an open inlet tract (no butterfly) at all times and therefore the actual fuel/air ratio varies continually dependent solely on the amount of fuel injected.

Diesels usually run very lean, if you tried to run a petrol engine as lean you would soon burn the valves or even a piston - therefore the air needs to be controlled to maintain a constant stoiciometric within the cylinder by means of the butterfly valve in the inlet tract.

You are right that some diesels now have wide band lambda sensors fitted but not apparently for the same reason as petrols. They appear to be fitted simply to limit soot production by preventing the amount of fuel injected exceeding the amount of oxygen available to burn it by allowing the ECU to gauge how well combustion is occurring right down to very lean mixtures.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

When mine was stolen in April it was opportunistic, as I parked outside a friend's house on a residential road, where I had never been before, and only stayed for about 2 hours.

I had the Cat Clamp fitted, and it would certainly stop it being stolen opportunistically like it was before.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

Good to see Stanner agrees with what I stated ie when fitted the sensor is used to control the air fuel ratio to that closest to ideal (stoiciometric) without smoke etc 

All this dancing semantics (lambada?) is not real relevant to the thread as we are talking about preventing the theft of cats but may be of interest to those with modern common rail engines 

I quote:- 

" Diesel Lambda sensors 

This super-fine control of mixture strength allows Lambda control to be possible for these common-rail systems, and from about 2005 onwards this has become the norm. Motivating all these innovations are EU emissions regulations, which are becoming ever more stringent for diesel engines after an initial phase of being allowed to lag behind the equivalent petrol-engine regulations." 

So getting back to my post - if you fit a cat by-pass pipe and you have a sensor on your cat you will need to have a bush welded into the pipe to allow the refiting of the sensor 

Last dance in this thread for me, but I will come back and report on a bypass pipe once I have time to knock one up and give it a test 

Good luck Ray


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

airstream said:


> Good to see Stanner agrees with what I stated ie when fitted the sensor is used to control the air fuel ratio to that closest to ideal (stoiciometric) without smoke etc


No, I didn't say that.

I agreed they are now sometimes fitted and why they are fitted (to prevent the stoichiometric ratio being EXCEEDED by overfuelling) but as there is no way of reducing airflow in a diesel they cannot prevent the ratio being under achieved.

In a petrol the stoichiometric ratio has to be maintained within very tight limits to avoid all sorts of problems in a diesel it's just an ideal maximum ratio for emission reduction.

I can see how you prevent overfuelling in a diesel, but how do you restrict the volume of air on a diesel to prevent running lean and therefore having a fuel/air ratio much weaker than the ideal stoichiometric one?


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

*Re: ebay?*



airstream said:


> Just had a look on ebay - "fiat ducato decat pipe" and one item comes up
> Item number: 320734770885
> FIAT DUCATO 3.0L DECAT PIPE
> 
> ...


Warning - you need to find the exact detailed part number of the piece missing in order that you get the right one.

Ebay can be fraught with difficulty here.


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## quartet (Jul 9, 2006)

*Do u need a cat?*

Hi
I met a guy who was driving a Lunar Roadstar in France who reckoned he had taken the cat off and his MH passed all the emissions tests and was much faster and saved him loads on mpg even at speed. He blasted past me on the motorway a few minutes later! Does anybody know anything about this?
Thanks
Barry


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Do u need a cat?*



Bessie560 said:


> Hi
> I met a guy who was driving a Lunar Roadstar in France who reckoned he had taken the cat off and his MH passed all the emissions tests ?
> Thanks
> Barry


Currently the only test in the MOT for a diesel vehicle is a smoke test not a measure of emmissions as for a petrol vehicle.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Update*

Hi All,

Update on "cat bypass" for Fiat Ducato 2.3 130

I can't find one at a reasonable price and dont want to be the latest victim of cat theft (my MH is parked up for Xmas with cat removed as always when not in use) so 
I have ordered the bits- flange,pipe and hanger rod from ebay and will fab the pipe after the hols 
The cost is around £30 but I have not the time to get round the metal suppliers etc so £30 delivered its not to bad 
My van is 2008 mod with the lambda sensor on the pre-cat which is located up in the engine bay - its the main cat that is stolen and the additional damage caused by cutting/cropping the pipe and the flexible ajadjacento the cat 
Vans with the lambda sensor on the main cat will need a boss welded into the bypass pipe, these are available on ebay 
I will report back once completed and installed on the van

Best Wishes and a Merry Xmas 
Ray


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi,

I would look into the New MOT rules for Jan 2012 onwards as I have heard that if a Cat was fitted from manufacture, it must be fitted at MOT time.

I haven't read through all the rules (which can be found here http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT Inspection Manual.pdf )

It is only what I have "picked up secondhand", and will stand corrected but may be worth double checking.

*Section 7.1 
3. "On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter."*


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would look into the New MOT rules for Jan 2012 onwards as I have heard that if a Cat was fitted from manufacture, it must be fitted at MOT time.
> 
> ...


I believed that the new rules for MOT meant that if a CAT was fitted at manufacture that it must be present to pass the MOT. I was put right by someone who quoted from the MOT testers manual which clearly states that it only applies to vehicles that have a full cat emmissions test. Currently this does not apply to diesels and they are exempt as per your section 7.1. 3 above.

Sorry I can't find the actual post but there must be at least 3 different topics running now on cat thefts and it is very confusing to search.


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi Ray,

Hope you are well. 

I thought it was worth mentioning, better safe than sorry and all that.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi Ray,
> 
> Hope you are well.
> 
> I thought it was worth mentioning, better safe than sorry and all that.


Yes we are well, meeting up with you at Stes Maries de la Mer seems a long time ago now.

I found the post I refered to which was in fact from Ray [airstream]:

quote "I checked last week whilst my MH was having its MOT (with CAT in place)

The tester stated that the new requirement did not apply to diesels and wrote down the actual text from VOSA form

Method of Inspection 
On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.

Reason for Rejection 
A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard

Tester stated that diesels do not qualify for a full emissions test so no problem

He also stated that the smoke test is more exacting for vehicles first used after (I think he said) July 2008 but he was still passing decatted Range/Land Rovers without any problems meeting the smoke test limits

However if you simply replace your cat for the MOT no problem? and your X250 even without its CAT will be cleaner than earlier models

Regards Ray" end quote.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Clarification*

Hi All. 
Re question on MOT cat/no cat it has been confirmed by VOSA that diesels are not subject to a "full cat emisions test" and that they propose to re word the MOT testers manual as quoted below

"VOSA have proposed an amendment to the Method of Inspection in the Inspection Manual, so that it will read "On petrol engine vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter".

Your van will still need to pass the appropriate emisions test @ 3.0 or 1.5 year dependent as in the MOT testers manual

Regards Ray


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*CAT BYPASS now made*

Happy New Year to All

Update on Cat bypass pipe

I fired up the welder this afternoon and now have a shiny newly fabricated and painted bypass pipe for my Ducato

I am waiting for two new rubber hangers and a gasket to arrive so I can fit it 
(It was only when removing the cat that I noticed I had two split rubber hangers - they have a fabric band that holds them together when they fail to stop the exhaust falling down)

I will update once fitted, however I have run the engine without cat and silencer and yes its noisy but no smoke

I think £30 and a hour or so's work give good peace of mind and a lot cheaper than replacing a stolen catalytic converter

So the cats in its bag and locked up in case I need it or sell the van

Regards Ray


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