# Motorhome running on Hydrogen?



## TheFlups (Nov 9, 2012)

I was reading a web page today that was promoting the use of a hydrogen kit to assist with fuel consumption.
It prompts me to ask forum members if anyone is using or knows of anyone who uses this system?
Here is a link describing/promoting the system
http://www.hho-plus.com/

Any views?


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

it is snake oil.

Has been discussed several times here. If you want to read the really exhaustive thread, then look here.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Chris
Yes I use Hydrogen and have dune on four out of five of my motorhomes,
My brother in law and friend also has them fitted.

We all have dry cells which produce 8litres of gas per minute it is a great fuel supplement giving me around 30% more mileage per gallon, the only thing I have to add is cheap bottled mineral water at 17p for two litres which last around 1200 miles.

There is no storage of gas this system is Hydrogen on demand so it only produces gas when the engine is running, it take its power for the alternator.

On my last trip to Portugal and Spain around 3800 miles I got 37miles to the gallon, this was measured by how many litres I used by the miles using 4.55 litres to the gallon not 5, on some sections of the route according to the trip on the van I was getting 38 too 44 MPG.

The unit is the same one that I’ve used on all my vans, the other thing it helps with is emission it reduces them by up to 80% because you are burning more of the fuel you are using instead of it being spate out of the tail pipe as black vapour which in turn leaves your van a little cleaner.

Hope this helps
If you need more info please let me know

Regards
Ray


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

30% better fuel consumption :roll: 
Apart from yourself, your brother-in-law and your friend.....does anybody else know about this?
Perhaps the AA or ADAC or even 'Which' will produce a test of it one day?


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Ted

There is a company in Spain that makes and installs Hydrogen Dry Cells, it is also very popular in the US simply go on youtube type in Hydrogen Cells and see for your self.
As for the AA or Which I have no idea I just know it works for use, not everyone’s cup of tea but nether is smoking.

Just to make one thing clear this is not a new idea, Hydrogen has been around since the 1860’s known then as Browns Gas, Hydrogen was use as a fuel supplement by the Germans during II world war. 

I came across it purely by accident at the time I was making my own Bio diesel mainly because I had access to large amounts of chip oil, however the amount of time needed plus the cost of chemicals, filter, power and mess it makes and getting rid of the end waste, it just wasn’t worth the effort.

Regards
Ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hydrocell said:


> We all have dry cells which produce 8litres of gas per minute . . . the only thing I have to add is cheap bottled mineral water


So that means you are electrolysing water!

What happens to the oxygen which is also produced?

And 8 litres per minute?? Have you collected and measured the volume . . . first separating the oxygen from the hydrogen?

Dave


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

I am sorry, but these figures just don't check out:



Hydrocell said:


> We all have dry cells which produce 8litres of gas per minute it is a great fuel supplement giving me around 30% more mileage per gallon, the only thing I have to add is cheap bottled mineral water at 17p for two litres which last around 1200 miles.


A modern, high-efficiency electrolyzer that can produce 8 litres of hydrogen per minute has an electric power rating of about 2.4 kilowatts. Much more than a normal MH engine alternator can provide.

And even if the alternator could deliver that kind of power (in addition to charging batteries, powering headlights etc.): Due to its limited energy conversion efficiency, the engine would have to burn about one extra litre of diesel fuel per hour, just to produce the power for the hydrogen generator.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

I can't quite see the process here, although I can see that putting hydrogen into the engine as a fuel supplement could be beneficial.

The burning time/speed of hydrogen and petrol are different, or hydrogen and diesel for that matter, and 8 litres of hydrogen produced a minutes implies 4 litres of oxygen also produced?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water

You get 4707 litres volume of hydrogen gas from a gallon of water, based on 100% conversion, which it isn't, so let's assume 4000 litres. At 8 litres a minute, that gives 500 minutes of running, assuming that the 8 litres a minute is being used continuously.

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae367.cfm

The OP says he uses 2 litres in 1200 miles, which doesn't add up, plus the energy used to extract the hydrogen is more than the power released by burning the gas, so in theory he should be looking at a power loss rather than a net gain, so less rather than more mpg.

Conservation of energy applies here, there's no free lunch.

Please check my figures and references.

Peter


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Forget the diesel fuel; all we need to do is [somehow :?] seperate the oxygen from the hydrogen in the water & fill up the 'fuel' tank with tapwater [unless your in the desert] & we have unlimited free fuel . . . simples, I wonder no one has thought of it before !


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

RV guy on another forum tested one system out, after a month he reported no noticeable increase in MPG, he then tried to get his money back. :lol: 

Ian


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## TheFlups (Nov 9, 2012)

I recently had to replace all 12 injectors in two, under 2 year old Iveco NEF engines on a boat. They had failed because of seizing and the comments upon inspection from Bosche were 'badly corroded'! There were 3 traps before the engine and 2 of them are water separators so I can't see how water could have been the culprit. Also I had the fuel in the tanks analysed and it was found to be A1. 

This begs the question about using a Hydrogen solution...surely that would play hell with modern finely tuned injectors? 

As an aside the injectors cost a staggering £240 each!!!


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Honest John's opinion-

"When it takes companies like Honda, Toyota, Mercedes,and Hyundai/KIA many millions of dollars to develop hydrogen cell vehicles I'd find it difficult to believe that a small company in Devon can do the job for buttons."

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/11119/hydrogen-cells

I also came across this, suggesting it isn't quite as good as many claim

http://www.accurateautoadvice.com/a...ing-hydrogen-to-your-gas-wont-save-you-money/

I don't think any newish vehicle will be chucking out much in the way of unburnt fuel and soot anyway?


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Dave

Yes I measured the volumes on a set rig I have in my garage, as for the oxygen it is mostly separated by a filter system you get two part Hydrogen to one part oxygen.

And your next question is going to be that this extra oxygen will make the ECU to increase the fuel intake and turn on the service light on your dash, and you would be correct in thinking that, however there are simple ways around this problem without interfering with the air intake or ECU.
One thing on all Fiat engine’s up to 2006 this however is not a problem.

Regards
Ray


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Gerard

Yes you are partly right but it’s the way in which you produce the gas, if I was using a coil in a sweet jar to make the Hydrogen then I would need that power but I’m not.

Just remember I have a system that works for and like I said previous it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, I’m just responding to the questions on this forum.

Regards
Ray


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hydrocell said:


> ... but it's the way in which you produce the gas ...


No, it is not. It is the law of conservation of energy. To split a certain number of water molecules you *need* a certain amount of energy.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Or as Alan indicated in this post.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1354338.html#1354338

Dave


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Gerhard

Believe what you will but it’s working for us, I have nothing to prove, I’m not selling anything or trying to get anyone to buy one, but I’m using a lot less fuel to cover the same mileage that suits me just fine.


Regards
Ray


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hydrocell said:


> Hi Gerhard
> 
> Believe what you will but it's working for us, I have nothing to prove, I'm not selling anything or trying to get anyone to buy one, but I'm using a lot less fuel to cover the same mileage that suits me just fine.
> 
> ...


Hi Ray

You may not be selling anything but if you are getting the MPG you say, then, believe me, you could make a bleeding fortune.

Paul.


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi Paul

I'm already saving a fortune, that makes me happy.

I have a bit of an obsession with fuel costs and mpg and I make a note of every drop of fuel when I fill up and the mileage, I never miss out a point of a litre, I fill up to the brim every time and then work it back against the mile covered.
One other thing I have found is if I use 70% diesel and 30% veg oil the mileage is even better, but at the price of veg oil at the moment it not worth the hassle.

As I’ve stated in my other posts this is nothing new it’s not some great invention to replace diesel, but it helps burn the diesel cleaner and giving more torque this is where the savings are made. Combustion engine do not burn all the fuel they consume it can be lest than 50% in some cases so rather than it coming out of your tail pipe as black smoke, so the more you burn the less the black smoke you get which in turn means less emissions.

When my brother in law takes his van for an MOT, it is 2004 2.8JTD it’s quite funny watching the fitter test for the emissions they just can’t believe the results and generally carry out the test three or four times. 

It work on petrol as well as deseil.


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