# Gloves a legal requirement



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

On a daily basis I tend to scan thelocal.fr the English language French paper. You pick up some interesting items in it.

Some of you who take scooters, motorbikes, mopeds etc need to be aware that from 20th November 2016 it is a requirement that gloves are worn. Failure to comply could result in a fine of €68 and a point removed from your licence. Obviously the points are of no concern, but heaven knows what torture you Brits will be subjected to after article 50, irrespective of your stance.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20161102/what-changesfor-daily-life-in-france-this-november

You need to work through the article to access the relevant paragraph.

Davy


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

So it should be 

In the event of an accident however minor

Hands are the first thing we use to break the fall 

Best to try to minimise the amount of flesh stripped off when hitting the ground even at relatively low speeds 

These rules are to protect, especially youngsters who take off without a care in the world and don't appreciate when you hit a hard surface at 20/30 miles an hour

The hard surface is always the winner 

I was afraid for many of the bikers on the cols, especially the two lying in the field with their bike , and a helicopter nearby 

So many were just completely unprotected

We are talking major skin grafts, if they live that is 

Sandra


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

This link is a but gruesome. But no gloves on a bike and this can happen


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I had the task of responding to 999 calls for the ambulance service and I would totally support the requirement to wear gloves, I would go further and insist on correctly fitted leathers - seeing youngsters around here on lightweight "motorbikes" wearing a T short and shorts horrifies me from what I have seen in the past.....

just one (gruesome) example - lady versus road surface, all flesh stripped from right forearm down to the bones which could clearly be seen from the elbow joint right down to the back of the hand.....

"It's OK," she said "it doesn't hurt" - I am sure that most people can work out why that was......

Sadly she (21 year old female) lost the forearm......

Gloves and the correct protective clothing PLEASE.

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Gruesome


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

The part I thought brilliant was so French and typical of that country was the "Winter Truce". Where else does this happen, not in the UK thats for sure.

cabby.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It's very true also....

if a tenant refuses to pay rent at all they cannot evicted during the "winter truce".....

crazy law IMO that is used to the tenants advantage.....

not thought for the landlord at all - obviously in previous centuries the landlords would all have been taken to the Bastille for suggesting such a thing as paying rent and their necks would have been given a close "head trim" by Mme Guillotine....

France (like the UK) has many crazy laws.....

Dave


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

I had the misfortune to see the aftermath of motorcyclist in shorts impacting on tarmac and gravel in spain many years ago.
We were in a Volkswagen T2 RHD Campervan and my wife was driving. Driver behind was waiting to overtake us up a windy steep hill. 
Flying round the corner cranked right over, came the motorcyclist, he was going very wide, on a direct course for me, at the last minute he threw himself to his right missed me, I was in the passenger seat and he hit the Mercedes behind me. A truly awful vision, he must have been doing in excess of 70MPH or more.
When the dust settled, he got up, talk about road rash, it was horrible.
I used a motorcyle as my only form of transport for 5 years, all weathers.

Ian


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Didn't know about the gloves law, or the hi vis vest being compulsory to carry . 
So thats , gloves, vest, headlight on, stickers on hemet ? , carry documents ? Grateful if someone can state all the requirements.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

AFAIK spare glasses if you wear them, spare bulbs inc. headlight bulb, and probably a trailer to fit all the requirements in.....

When they were going on about breathalysers, motorbikes were one of the reasons why it was not enabled as there is nowhere secure or dry to carry such things, I wonder how many of the "identification, insurance, V5/Carte Grise, driving licence, passport, etc." are treated in the same manner?

My son-in-law was stopped in his car and did not have all the requisite documents with him (neither does he speak enough French to understand anything), and he was given a note saying to produce the whole lot within 7 days (same as in UK), I suspect similar may apply to paperwork and motorbikes.

BUT the safety equipment; helmet, gloves, high viz vest *MUST* be worn, or an instant fine can be imposed and they have the right to either take you to the nearest ATM or impose the vehicle until the fine has been paid (same applies to MH of course).

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> Didn't know about the gloves law, or the hi vis vest being compulsory to carry .
> So thats , gloves, vest, headlight on, stickers on hemet ? , carry documents ? Grateful if someone can state all the requirements.


How many motorcyclists or scooterists have you seen with hi vis jackets or theses stickers on their helmets in France. They seem to make these laws and nobody takes any notice of them.

This latest one seems daft to me unless your going to insist everyone wears full leathers etc. Its not always your hands that go down in a crash. Ive come off a few bikes in my life time and you dont have time to put your hand down and it depends how you fall etc. Im not saying its not a sensible idea but the typical outfit on a scooter or bike in the south of France in summer is shorts, t shirts and flip flops. What difference is a pair of gloves going to make if you come off at 60mph in Nice?


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

But Barry, I refer you to an offhand comment that I made in the first post. Visiting bikes with Uk plates may attract more attention as is alleged by people with regard to British motorhomes being picked on.

Did I read or hear recently that it is illegal in France to drive in flip flops ( which as everyone knows were invented by Phillipe de floppe)

Or did you hear about the market stallholder who only had right footed ones, so he sold them in pairs as flip flips.

THERE, got those two out of my system. Anyway it's my thread, I can post what I want.!!

Davy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Penquin said:


> It's very true also....
> 
> if a tenant refuses to pay rent at all they cannot evicted during the "winter truce".....
> 
> ...


Now then who's going to find the same thing for the UK?

15 crazy French Laws

Have a read and then wonder...... how on earth has that been allowed.....? or where do I have a bale of hay handy.....?

I bet Ray didn't know all of these..... or any of the other French residents.....

Dave


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## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

A lot of police motorcyclists don't wear gloves and ride in shirt sleeves. Setting a good example there then!

I'm sure a lot of them accompanying the tour de France when it came to Yorkshire didn't wear gloves either.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

chilly said:


> A lot of police motorcyclists don't wear gloves and ride in shirt sleeves. Setting a good example there then!
> 
> I'm sure a lot of them accompanying the tour de France when it came to Yorkshire didn't wear gloves either.


That's a great picture to cut out and keep in your wallet to show, in case you are stopped :grin2:

I'm not sure whether that would help pass the 'attitude test' though :wink2:

Graham :smile2:


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## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

I remember when we were in France once. There was some hold up on an elevated section of motorway running parallel with the road we were travelling. Two separate Police bikes were travelling up a steep, curving 'on ramp' stood straight upright on the foot pegs, in shirt sleeves (no gloves) blowing whistles and waving arms to marshal the stuck cars (doing about 50 mph, no hands:surprise. I was very impressed with their handling skills.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I would suggest like all the other "laws" you see what the locals are doing next time your in France. If its wall to wall scooters and bike in flip flops and no gloves then just do as they do, if everyone is wearing gloves then they have taken it seriously. Or you could just wear them anyway which would be the sensible thing to do of course.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

In summer I always use padded cycling gloves, in winter two pairs of gloves are needed.One summer t shirt going up a mountain, thickish coat to come down :wink2:

tony


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> In summer I always use padded cycling gloves, in winter two pairs of gloves are needed.*One summer t shirt going up a mountain, thickish coat to come down* :wink2:
> 
> tony


Is it colder coming down?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

barryd said:


> Is it colder coming down?


It sure is, going faster, we admire the scenery going up, so slow. Eyes on the road coming down.:smile2:

tony


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

No pumping going down so it would be colder, bloody educating the oiks again


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Now then who's going to find the same thing for the UK?
> 
> 15 crazy French Laws
> 
> ...


Your right Dave.
I knew about No 5 and 40% French music and about not evicting tenants in winter.

We have just won a legal battle here after 4+ years to sell some Brits house from under them to pay ours and others debts. They used the winter trick year after year running up more debts. I'm just awaiting the cheque.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> No pumping going down so it would be colder, bloody educating the oiks again


On a scooter?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> On a scooter?


Perhaps wrong, but I assumed he meant a cycle not a scooter from the way he wrote it.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Anyone who has seen, first hand, (as I have on a fair number of occasions) the result of human skin acting as a brake on any sort of road surface, will, I am sure support 100% the compulsorary wearing of protective gloves.

During my years I rode Traffic Patrol motorcycles, even in the hottest of weather I always wore full leathers AND leather gauntlets. Yes I got very hot and sweaty but at least if I had come off I would have been protected from using my palms as brakes at high speed on Tarmac (or much worse, gravel) 

Andy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Having come off at speed a couple of times, and still got gravel in my shoulder, I highly recommend wearing good quality gloves at the very least, having someone hold your bits may on occasion be very nice, having to have them do it through stupidity is quite another.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Kev what bits should we be holding ??

Sandra


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## graff (Aug 21, 2016)

Oh well, my last free post,(although I was a fully paid up member since 2008 until June 2017) but I do think it is important to pass on our experience.
Earlier this year, we purchased a new scooter, we got all the top body safety gear, including net clothing for very hot weather, with plastic padding for elbows, ribs and back bone. When cool, we would wear all the heavy protection gear, when hot, we would wear the net gear with protection. We did this religiously every time we used our scooter , EXCEPT!! when we went to the beach which was just two km from our van:frown2: BIG mistake! I won't go into details, but we did come off, I broke a couple of ribs, and got a few nasty, one very nasty knee scrape, Mrs G came off luckily better, just a few small scrapes and bruises:smile2:.
We did wear gloves!, as we knew in any accident, the first thing you put down is your hands:frown2:
Now we are home, and we intend to buy proper leg protection, and USE it, no matter how hot it may be.
My advice is, no matter how good or experienced you think you are, YOU really do need full protection, even if just going a couple of km and if you think people may laugh at all the gear you are wearing, just let them, they are just idiots!
The BIG problem is how and where to store the safety gear when we park the scooter. Usually, we store the helmets in the top box and under the seat, and secure the jackets with a security strap to the scooter. WE now need to find how to secure the safety trouser.
BUT BOTTOM line is, wear al the safety gear, NO ifs and buts!, just do it!
Flip flops, shorts and T shirts and just for idiots!>
Oh forgot to say, we are both still suffering, taking pain killers just to do daily activities!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I am reminded of the black paramedic humour (common amongst all emergency services personnel who develop "coping strategies" for the terrible incidents they have to attend), who explained that to them a serious accident is when the patient arrives at the hospital in more than one vehicle..... seems appropriate for such a thread....

Sadly, locating the odd finger or two in the dark amongst grass is not an easy task - by torchlight, in the rain, while it is blowing a hooley and you are more than an hour past the scheduled end of your shift.........

Motorbikes and scooters (motorised ones) are easy to ride, but riding inadequately protected is foolish to say the least, and if it was a youngster, may be due to financial constraints but in supposedly sensible adults to me it is indefensible. You are simply an accident waiting for somewhere to happen and the worry will be shifted to your nearest and dearest.

Your actins will have a marked effect on many others if such an accident takes place; the emergency crews, the medics in the ED, the long term medical care from the plastics team and of course your family......

No emoticons as this is not something that I would consider worthy of humour - other than from the professionals who have to scrape the remains up.

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well your right of course Dave but you must have driven along the med coast or any part of the south of France in mid summer when its 30 degrees plus. How many people riding scooters do you see with all that clobber on? Ill guess a big fat zero. Maybe the odd wobbly Brit pensioner perhaps.  

As said earlier. You get knocked of a bike or pile it up you generally have no control which way you go and its nonsense for people to say the first thing you do is put your hands out. Yes if you trip on a pavement jogging maybe. Had a few prangs over the years mainly when I was young and daft(er) but never once did I have chance to think about putting my hands down.

Luckily this year with three months touring in the UK I only got to wear flip flops and shorts twice thanks to the wonderful British weather. Only started wearing gloves three weeks ago when it got colder.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

And the Legislation will soon include bicycles, skateboards, rollerskates, even joggers - they might fall over a dog lead?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> Well your right of course Dave but you must have driven along the med coast or any part of the south of France in mid summer when its 30 degrees plus. How many people riding scooters do you see with all that clobber on? Ill guess a big fat zero. Maybe the odd wobbly Brit pensioner perhaps.
> 
> As said earlier. You get knocked of a bike or pile it up you generally have no control which way you go and its nonsense for people to say the first thing you do is put your hands out. Yes if you trip on a pavement jogging maybe. Had a few prangs over the years mainly when I was young and daft(er) but never once did I have chance to think about putting my hands down.
> 
> Luckily this year with three months touring in the UK I only got to wear flip flops and shorts twice thanks to the wonderful British weather. Only started wearing gloves three weeks ago when it got colder.


Barry, you have been lucky several times, the road has only got to be lucky once....

I know that you disagree but if you had witnessed the messes that people are converted into after rtc's it would make you think very carefully before you put yourself at risk. I am sure that your riding is superb and probably on a par with a police motorcyclist or a winning motorbike racer, but what about all the other drivers you may encounter? Is their driving as careful as yours, are they all paying full attention to their surroundings or are they adjusting the music on their phone or lighting a cigarette or eating a croissant (eating a sandwich is contrary to French law), 'cos if they are not at your standard of excellence then they could be the one causing the rtc which involves you and you may know nothing about it until your bike has been knocked from under you.....

That may sound over-cautious but it is realistic - however good you are, you can guarantee that other drivers are not paying attention....

Just as an aside - have you ever taken the RoSPA Advanced Motoring courses or the IAM (Institute Advanced Motoring) skills courses and assessments for motorcycles, they also do one for car drivers - quite a challenge and well worth doing IMO.

RoSPA

IAM

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Barry, you have been lucky several times, the road has only got to be lucky once....
> 
> I know that you disagree but if you had witnessed the messes that people are converted into after rtc's it would make you think very carefully before you put yourself at risk. I am sure that your riding is superb and probably on a par with a police motorcyclist or a winning motorbike racer, but what about all the other drivers you may encounter? Is their driving as careful as yours, are they all paying full attention to their surroundings or are they adjusting the music on their phone or lighting a cigarette or eating a croissant (eating a sandwich is contrary to French law), 'cos if they are not at your standard of excellence then they could be the one causing the rtc which involves you and you may know nothing about it until your bike has been knocked from under you.....
> 
> ...


No Dave Ive not and not considered them either. When I passed my bike test in 1983 at 17 I did the star rider course which I think was about six two hour sessions off and on road on a bike. I really enjoyed it but mainly because it was competitive seeing who was the best in amongst cones, stopping in a 2ft wide box etc.  I have been in a car with a few "Advanced drivers" though who did like to talk about their skills, a lot. 

Your right of course that no matter how good you think you are at some point there is a good chance someone will take you out and there is nothing you can do about it. As you may remember it happened to us in Luxembourg at the start of our trip last summer. Two cyclists whizzed out of nowhere across the traffic and never saw us and we all ended up in a heap. Nothing I could do, no amount of advanced riding, skill or expertise could have prevented it. I know the risks a bit like anyone who jumps off a cliff in a wingsuit or somebody skiing off a mountain, riding along a backroad in Provence through lavender fields, pottering around St Tropez harbour or pulling up at some lake side bar on Lake Maggiore in July when its 32 degrees is just going to be daft in full biker regalia however stupid it might sound.

I remember a couple of times riding round Lake Bourget. It was 35c. In fact it was so hot even on the bike you couldnt get cool. We resorted to riding a few miles, finding a suitable swimming spot and diving in with our shorts and T shirts on and then jumping back on the bike soaking wet so the air would feel cooler through wet clothes! Wearing full gear would have probably been more dangerous as I would have ended up with heat stroke. Not saying you or anyone else is wrong just simply that in mid summer in southern Europe its just not practical or desirable.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I tend to think that cycling, skateboarding and rollerblading all require some protective clothing to be worn

Albert cycles and used to wear Lycra shorts until he was knocked of his bike by a car, he wasn't going fast but he skinned his knees and legs, he was wearing a long sleeved cycling shirt and gloves, so no skin lost there only bruising 

Since then he only wears full length cycling trousers, they do offer some protection.

Sandra


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## Jmdarr (Oct 9, 2013)

Fell of my bike pedal power in front of first aid tent put my hand out to stop my fall and apart from hurt pride and road rash even with trousers on said I was ok.man pride refused treatment said I was ok.after picking myself up and cycling of with blood pouring from my hand and ears ringing from Swmbo went back to first aid tent to have a stone removed from the palm of my hand boy did it hurt and that was just my pride.
After 6months still have scars on legs and hand and that was only 2 mph god knows what it would have felt like on a motor bike going faster 
John d


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Can't you get gloves that are fixed to the bike itself so you dont have to carry them around? 

Or am I making that bit up?

Graham :smile2:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I've got the answer:


Everyone to wear either a 'Sumo Suit' or a 'Mr Blobby Outfit' plus welders gauntlets and steel capped boots.


That should sort it :smile2:


tony


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Can't you get gloves that are fixed to the bike itself so you dont have to carry them around?
> 
> Or am I making that bit up?
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Not entirely but it wouldn't help unless you kept hold of the bars which would be suicidal.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We could all just accept the nanny state and stop doing anything which could cause pain and suffering.

Love making
drinking
smoking
cycling
running
walking
driving
eating

Add any you think of...


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Why stop Kev ?

Just take sensible precautions............in all of them :wink2::wink2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

aldra said:


> Why stop Kev ?
> 
> Just take sensible precautions............in all of them :wink2::wink2:


You make my point


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GEMMY said:


> I've got the answer:
> 
> Everyone to wear either a 'Sumo Suit' or a 'Mr Blobby Outfit' plus welders gauntlets and steel capped boots.
> 
> ...


We fell off on a CL in Salcombe in Devon one Winter. It was freezing and snow and ice everywhere but the roads were cleared and we set off from the CL in pretty much 
Mr Blobby outfits (several layers and padded coats etc). Got back onto the CL which had snow on the ground and pleased with myself that we had not been killed to death I got a bit cocky heading up the field to the van and give it too many beans and off we went. Didnt feel a thing. There was an old couple on the CL though that had apoplexy at seeing said incident but were relieved somewhat when we were rolling around in the snow laughing.

When we had an off in similar conditions on a road in the Lakes near Hawkshead on black ice at about 15 miles an hour we werent smiling quite as much. Hurt like hell.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

but hopefully your skin was not taken off by the surface..... and that is the fearful outcome that the new French law is trying to reduce - in so doing of course, they are also trying to reduce the costs of aftercare for the Health system - which applies in France as well as in the UK, differently yes, but there are still considerable potential costs for sorting out severe "road rash".

Please do NOT click on this link if you are of a delicate nature, it shows a real severe example of road rash injuries (image removed to avoid upsetting others)

It is NOT a pretty image......

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I cannot argue with what you are saying Dave however I will be interested to see if the law is put into practice next summer around your area and especially the med coast. Hopefully we will get to see for ourselves.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I VERY much doubt that the Law will be followed throughout France UNLESS the Gendarme want to make a point...... The French are renowned for ignoring laws they don't like.....

Dave


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Protect yourself and look cool/ or a wally:



*Knee Pads, Elbow Pads Wrist Guards [Upgraded Vistion 2.0] Protective Gear Set for Skateboard,Biking, Riding, Cycling and Multi Sports, Scooter, Bicycle, Rollerblades*
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TOPFIRE-Ch...8364894&sr=8-3&keywords=skateboard+elbow+padsby TOPFIRE

£8.78_Prime_

More buying choices
£8.78new(2 offers)

tony:smile2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I found it terrifying 

Watching youngsters dressed in next to nothing hurtling around the cols at 50/60 miles an hour

But I guess it's a learning curve

I just hope they live long enough on that curve to learn

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

aldra said:


> I found it terrifying
> 
> Watching youngsters dressed in next to nothing hurtling around the cols at 50/60 miles an hour
> 
> ...


The thing is Sandra it makes you feel alive. Often I have left Michelle in the van and taken off in the Alps and gone hell for leather up in the high mountains taking the bike to the limit and wearing the footpegs and flip flops down on every corner. The feeling you get is euphoric and you rise to the top of some mountain pass and look back down and you cannot beat it. The sun is shining, you find an alpine tarn to have a dip in and set back down again. Nothing to beat it. You could spent your life worrying about how dangerous it is or should I protect myself this way or worry about that but you just dont and you get out and do it.

Dangerous and foolhardy I know but me personally? Ill take my chances. Its worth the risk. At least if we clock off falling of the Col de Bonette we would do it in style.


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

I have had a few off`s in my time,all on big bikes.
And everytime i had full leathers on.
I personally would never go with out gloves on or
wear flip flops no matter how hot it was.
We used the scooter on the Mosel and Rhine area
and it was in the 30`s,but I still wore my gloves.
The first thing you do is try and save yourself with
you hands,and if you were travelling at a good speed
you will not stop instantly you will slide.Not worth the
risk in my opinion!:frown2::frown2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

barryd said:


> The thing is Sandra it makes you feel alive. Often I have left Michelle in the van and taken off in the Alps and gone hell for leather up in the high mountains taking the bike to the limit and wearing the footpegs and flip flops down on every corner. The feeling you get is euphoric and you rise to the top of some mountain pass and look back down and you cannot beat it. The sun is shining, you find an alpine tarn to have a dip in and set back down again. Nothing to beat it. You could spent your life worrying about how dangerous it is or should I protect myself this way or worry about that but you just dont and you get out and do it.
> 
> Dangerous and foolhardy I know but me personally? Ill take my chances. Its worth the risk. At least if we clock off falling of the Col de Bonette we would do it in style.


Barry my lovely
You are alive
And I for one would rather you stayed that way

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

aldra said:


> Barry my lovely
> You are alive
> And I for one would rather you stayed that way
> 
> Sandra


You might be in a minority Sandra.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

So what next?

The Tour de France hurtling down the Col de Tourmalet at 60kph in full leathers, helmets and gloves?

Or mountaineers having to submit a 'Risk Assessment' to the local Council before climbing?

Or kayakers and surfboarders having to get a licence - when private sailors do not. [I carry 6 lifejackets, but have never worn one, but have worn a safety harness(with a short lanyard) and clipped it on; a lifejacket is of not much use to a solo sailor 200m behind his vessel - better to stay on board.

Everybody has to assess the level of risk they wish to take in life. The relevant education is what is required.

It is not possible to legislate out risk. If we tried to do that we would have to ban joining the Armed Forces - 'You might get killed FFS'

.....ad absurdum

Geoff

[Liam, amongst others, would understand]


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> So what next?
> 
> The Tour de France hurtling down the Col de Tourmalet at 60kph in full leathers, helmets and gloves?
> 
> ...


Ill let you into a secret. Ive never worn a life jacket since I was 23 and rowed the Caledonian Canal for charity on my own. Half way up Loch Ness my backside ached that much I took it off and sat on it. Apparently I had 7 minutes to live if I fell in and with no back up or chance of rescue I figured a life jacket was pretty pointless. Never worn one since.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

I think the French have a different and sometimes curious outlook to risk. If you go into the mountains in France then you need to have insurance for your helicopter rescue, similar to what I have read about skiing.

In boating you need to have your international cert of competence, or local qualification and boats tend to be registered.

In the uk wether the hills or boats there is a free rescue service and a free NHS to pick up the pieces so we can afford to be more blasé about risk. And yet the French do not let H&S get in the way of what you can and cannot do, and their built infrastructure seems to expect people to take some responsibility and not fall off an unguarded promenade, or do a high ropes course with minimum of instruction.

With regard to the buoyancy Barry, you have to consider wether your careless attitude will ruin other people's lives should you meet with Neptune, at least with a buoyancy aid and decent clothing, you have at least 20 minutes before hypothermia begins to really bite.

I can never get my head round the number of boaters who make their children wear buoyancy, but shun it themselves. A lot of good you are to your kids when they survive and the breadwinner is dead!

Davy


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Barry - Re your aversion to full protective gear when bowling along the Cote d'Azure................ Have you considered Kevlar jeans and jacket? Lightweight and very protective - and far cooler than leather jeans and jacket?

I have tarmac surfed when wearing Kevlar jeans and, other than some spectacular bruises on my hip, there was no road-rash at all. The fabric of the jeans didn't wear through due to the Kevlar. A decent Kevlar jacket to match, plus lightweight summer gloves, would at least allow you to sit at the beachside bar with your pastis as opposed to slurping tepid soup through a straw at the local hospital.

Just an idea my friend - I DO understand the 'freedom' of 'casual' riding when the weather warrants it..........


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

TeamRienza said:


> I think the French have a different and sometimes curious outlook to risk. If you go into the mountains in France then you need to have insurance for your helicopter rescue, similar to what I have read about skiing.
> 
> In boating you need to have your international cert of competence, or local qualification and boats tend to be registered.
> 
> ...


Have you ever Kayaked along the Ardeche Gorges in peak season? I have, its nuts! We set off early but the crowds caught us up and it was Kayak Mayhem. They just give you a Kayak and no instructions or anything. People were making rafts on them and going over rapids stood up singing and all sorts. Massive pile ups at the top of rapids and as many people falling out of boats as in them. It was the best fun I had the entire trip.  Actually a life jacket in those circumstances is useful but a helmet would have been more useful (none supplied). Anyway they were buoyancy aids not life jackets so if you nocked yourself out you would have still probably been goosed anyway. 

I would suspect a buoyancy aid in a rubber Kayak on a lake or the sea would be more of a hindrance than a help to be honest.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The "Darwin Awards" comes to my mind.....

each of us must make up our own minds as regards safety and to what extent we wish to follow guidelines, so be it.

Many years ago I was interviewed after a very unpleasant death in Cornwall of a young student diver, I had appeared at the inquest as an "Expert witness" - quite an onerous task, in the end the Jury decision at the inquest was "accidental death" as the person concerned, inadequately trained as they were, still sought to go for the first dive in very adverse conditions. Sadly, something went horribly wrong during the descent.

The body was recovered from the sea several weeks later. The family of the victim were devastated, quite rightly by the death.

That was not my only grim experience at inquests into divers, but is one of the most memorable for me.....

Not something that I would ever wish to have to witness again - the grief in the family of the victim is palpable and there is little solace that can be offered.

The Coroner summed that inquest up as incredibly sad, but by going into the water that person had willingly put themselves at risk, sadly, in this case (and others) a risk that they were not able to overcome.

But each of us must make up the decision for ourselves - me? I am a belt, braces and piece of string type person........

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Barry - Re your aversion to full protective gear when bowling along the Cote d'Azure................ Have you considered Kevlar jeans and jacket? Lightweight and very protective - and far cooler than leather jeans and jacket?
> 
> I have tarmac surfed when wearing Kevlar jeans and, other than some spectacular bruises on my hip, there was no road-rash at all. The fabric of the jeans didn't wear through due to the Kevlar. A decent Kevlar jacket to match, plus lightweight summer gloves, would at least allow you to sit at the beachside bar with your pastis as opposed to slurping tepid soup through a straw at the local hospital.
> 
> Just an idea my friend - I DO understand the 'freedom' of 'casual' riding when the weather warrants it..........


They sound good Carl. They also sound expensive.  Do they do Kevlar Flip flops and shorts?


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

barryd said:


> They sound good Carl. They also sound expensive.  Do they do Kevlar Flip flops and shorts?


Pricey - but not so pricey as a decent set of leathers..................or the rehab following a spill with no protection.

Cheapest I can find that would probably do you for the sort of riding that you do mate:

http://www.getgeared.co.uk/route-one-houston-jeans-grey?sc=14&category=600453

£60 up to £99 dependent on size, Kevlar lined at key abrasion points, CE protection on knees.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Pricey - but not so pricey as a decent set of leathers..................or the rehab following a spill with no protection.
> 
> Cheapest I can find that would probably do you for the sort of riding that you do mate:
> 
> ...


Thanks Carl. Cant seem to get that link to work though.


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

Carl_n_Flo said:


> Barry - Re your aversion to full protective gear when bowling along the Cote d'Azure................ Have you considered Kevlar jeans and jacket? Lightweight and very protective - and far cooler than leather jeans and jacket?
> 
> I have tarmac surfed when wearing Kevlar jeans and, other than some spectacular bruises on my hip, there was no road-rash at all. The fabric of the jeans didn't wear through due to the Kevlar. A decent Kevlar jacket to match, plus lightweight summer gloves, would at least allow you to sit at the beachside bar with your pastis as opposed to slurping tepid soup through a straw at the local hospital.
> 
> Just an idea my friend - I DO understand the 'freedom' of 'casual' riding when the weather warrants it..........


Yes me too.im not saying I have never done that in France when its been mega hot,but when I have after the ride it always makes me shudder!:serious:


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## jo662 (Jul 27, 2010)

barryd said:


> They sound good Carl. They also sound expensive.  Do they do Kevlar Flip flops and shorts?


We really do need a tab to mark a post as funny!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Mesh stuff is available, e.g.http://www.dirtbikebitz.com/2017-fo...s&utm_medium=BaseFeed1&utm_source=GoogleBase1


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

tugboat said:


> Mesh stuff is available, e.g.http://www.dirtbikebitz.com/2017-fo...s&utm_medium=BaseFeed1&utm_source=GoogleBase1


"youth" is stretching a bit though...

..not as much as the suit itself would get stretched though, I suspect!

Graham :grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Barry do you want flowers or a donation???


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