# KC?



## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

Did anyone watch the kennel club program on BBC1 last night?
Any comments?


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## littlenell (Aug 1, 2008)

I didn't -but note that the KC have this on their website...

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1993/23/5/3


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

I could swear, the pompous prats were condoning the interbreeding and the killing of puppies that did not met breed standard! it was horrible, the outcome of the breeding was disgusting with sweet little dogs screaming in agony. I want to cry all over again!


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I did, thought the KC showed their true colours of not caring about dogs or the dogs welfare.
Close breeding is abhorrent and should be banned by an act of Parliament.

How can the dog show community breed such mutant, freaks. I've always got in a mood when I see what has won Best of Show at Crufts.
Such dogs are a travesty of what a real dog should be.

Are these people genuinely blind to the defective horrors that they are producing.....OR IS IT JUST A MONEY THING!!.. :evil: :evil:


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## KeiththeBigUn (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Zoe

I watched it last night and I have to say I was appalled and extremely saddened by what I saw. The KC in our opinion came across as a bunch of arrogant twits :evil: (trying to be kind on a family forum)! The breeders were no better at all where they only seemed to think about profit and not the animals. For perfectly healthy puppies to be destroyed simply because they do not look right is gutting. 8O  

We have in the past owned two Cavalier King Charles and both have been riddled with medical problems.  Both were KC registered which we took to be a good thing, little did we know it meant nothing especially if like us you had no intention of breading fro them. The second one only lasted 4 and a half years before his liver gave up.  We now have a Jack Russell as we thought that he would be hardier bread, two years down the line and so far so good. We also have a Black lab which is KC registered but happily so far he has been very healthy and he is nine years old and like his owners he is starting to look his age. :wink: 

We both decided after seeing last nights programme that when our Lab goes to doggy heaven we will get a Heinz 57 and not put another penny into the KC coffers.

Keith and Ros


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

I have 2 two year old cavies .............gulp


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Do FIAT breed dogs??? :?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Pedigree dogs*

Hi

I saw the program and was disgusted, particularly with the owner who was asked if her dog had a disorder.

I have a pedigree dog with me at present - but I would never buy a pedigree - there are so many in rescue there is simply no need to purchase a puppy.

Using the Weimaraner as an example, the characteristics of the breed and typically dog like.

I do not wish to pick on any breed in particular, but surely having a flat face for example cannot be natural. Imagine if your own nose was flat to your face.

Mum and dad had a Charlie for year - he was riddled with ill health from pretty much day 1.

Russell


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"OR IS IT JUST A MONEY THING!!.. "

IMHO it is a status thing - people jockeying for position in volunteer organisations often have selfish motives. 

I didn't watch the programme as we had guests but when I saw it on on another TV in the house, seeing an eminent physicist on there then the German Shepherd mutants winning I recorded it.

I find it a mockery the extent to which breed standards have evolved in such a short time and can only put it down to human tinkering with less than pure motives. The breeder of our last 2 Goldens is forever bringing out photos of decades ago showing the type of dog she continues to breed because she believes it to be right, with the emphasis first on behaviour/temperament. A small example that laypeople might appreciate in order for me to substantiate the point - she breeds Goldens that are, spookily, Golden, not the "fashionable" cream that is de-rigeur to win in the show ring with far too many judges nowadays. 

Dave


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## Fuzzyfelts (Apr 23, 2007)

I watched the programme last night and was appalled. Close relative breeding in humans is ILLEGAL - it should be the same for all animals, not just dogs. Makes my blood boil. Those poor Cavaliers, such a lovely breed.


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

I emailed the KC 2 years ago because on the heading for the KC are the words
For the betterment of dogs.
I aked them when they intended to start looking to the betterment of dogs, still waiting for an answer
Waz


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

The Kennel Clubs defence?

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1993/23/5/3


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

It didn't look to me like they had any defence last night!


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## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

The Kennel Club's defence states " The Kennel Club would never put ‘looks’ above the health of pedigree dogs,".... what a load of bulls..t.

They are nothing more than a load of pompous arrogant twits and as far as the breeders are concerned far too many of them are purely in it for the money. 

It makes my blood boil to see what they are doing, why not let nature take its natural course and stop all this pain and suffering to "man's best friend"


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Zoe said:


> It didn't look to me like they had any defence last night!


Looks like a load of £$%^& to me too.

None as blind as those that won't see.


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

The big difference here is that they want to make themselves a name and money, I bought my dogs to love.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

We watched it even Rich was brought to tears seeing it, not often a thing to see with him. We were both disgusted. Rich has always had German Shepherds and thought the breeder he brought them from was a good'n until we saw the programme last night as she always maintained the stance of the sloping back was correct, no wonder they suffer from hip problems. Rigger our latest German Shepherd is a pedigree but with no papers he is a rescue dog, but would not be a show dog he has a lovely straight back doesn't have the frog legs, he also has only one testicle( had an op to remove the undescended one) and not all his teeth have grown through, he is 4yr old. 
We have a friend who up until recently had 3 cavaliers two have died within a short space of time this year, on with heart problem, the other had the large brain( although she died of cancer) the one that is left suffers with his heart. 
Back in the sixties I had a school friend whose parents had 2 pugs and from what I can remember their faces were not as flat as they are now 
These breeders who stick to their guns about so called breed standard and inter breeding need *$^&$£"!£%^^&*&I*)((**%$£ 
(Rich has just walked in to the office and wants to put his penny worth in). 
Lets get rid of the Rhodesian ridge back and have a Rhodesian smooth back! That breeder who bred them and wouldn't have one without the ridge wants to have a long conversation with a person with a hunch back or spine disorder and get their opinion of what it is like, as an animal cannot tell you 

Well done BBC, Mark Evans and the RSPCA 
Lin


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

My wife & I found ourselves unable to watch after a few minutes. The final straw was the Pug breeder who said there was nothing wrong with the breed! 
When we got Pushka (pedigree Siberian Husky) there were relatively few & the breed was very strong. The Siberian Husky Club actively encouraged people not to breed without checking with them as they were trying to stop the sort of things shown last night. Then that bl**dy stupid Disney movie Snow Dogs made the breed popular & now rescue centres are full of huskies 'cos unscupulous breeders sold them to anyone. As soon as there's money envolved the care for the dogs seems to go out of the window. We went back to see our breeder when we were nearby & the change over 3 years was heartbreaking.


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

I was astounded when they said that they were trying to keep the breeds pure, yet when they showed pics of the dogs a hundred years ago there was no resemblance at all, like Lindyloot said about the GSD nothing like the originals.........yuk


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

It certainly did not show the KC or breeders in a good light. Interbreeding should be illegal and the continued breeding of "endangered" dogs stopped.
If you have any love of animals, go and get a rescue one. I have only ever owned one pedigree dog and whilst it lived until 16 years of age it was not as healthy as the Bitsas I have owned and still own. I cannot see the point of dog shows other than to try and increase the monetary value of any outcomes. What does the Jockey Club do with regard interbreeding of racehorses. They certainly have to have a clean bill of health. I have it in the back of my mind it is not allowed?

peedee


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

IMHO, the Kennel Club should be outlawed, and the breeding of dogs to a Standard, arbitrarily decided by so called experts should be immediately made a capital offence.

I dont think that breeders really care about the long term problems dogs have when they look at the money involved.

A friend of mine has recently paid nearly £800.00 for an Irish Wolfhound. Winning Crufts or other high profile shows, merely serves to bring a breed into the public eye, which then increases the fashionable saleability of the breed which puts the price up.

I have hated the standardising of breeds since I can remember, GSD with hip displacement. The degree of slope in the back of some GSD is so obviously going to cause problems with diplacement only an idiot would fail to see it.

Pug, French Bulldog, English Bulldog, Pekinese, their respiratory passages with a face like that are surely so degraded in efficiency they pant constantly and seem to be in dsitress at the smallest of exercise.

Dalmations with epilepsy, Labs with mental health problems, and dont get me onto the docking of tails issue. OH and rotties, with legs too short and bodies so heavy they become arthritic in a couple of years, Danes with a life span of 8 on average, and fall to bits in 5 years...according to my Vet anyway, and persoonal experience of english Mastiffs with congenital heart defects from close breeding with other " perfect" examples. 

The only saving grace, is that Border collies are still working dogs ( well a few are) and they come in so many shapes and sizes they are hard work to standardise. Most of the Farmers who own them, are more intersted in their ability to herd than what they look like, thank the Lord. 

Small, obviously odd, unnatural breeds are just nausiating, as they are clearly bred for an ornamental purpose rather than for the benefit of the dog.


I apologise for the length of post, but not for my intense distrust and dislike of the KC.

this is a personnal opinion, I may be entirely wrong, but its still my opinion. no expert tho'


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## titchy (Jul 31, 2008)

:evil: 
I didn't need to as I work in a veterinary practice and see first hand the horrors of intensive breeding. Bull dog bitches that can't have puppies naturally because of being breed with a very narrow pelvis. Pekeinese with squashed faces so they can't breath and their eyes pop out so easily and GSD's who go off their legs at 5years old and don't get me started on tail docking Grrrrrrrr I thought it was supposed to be only done by vets! I don't know any vet who agrees with tail docking but you only have to watch crufts to see it still goes on.
Stick to rescue mongrols I say, they are never ill and have no inbreed diseases common in pure breed dogs. why pay up to £1000 for pure bred trouble when you can give a home to a dog that needs one.
I am on rescue dog number 5 and we love him to bits.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

titchy said:


> :evil:
> I
> Stick to rescue mongrols I say, they are never ill and have no inbreed diseases common in pure breed dogs. why pay up to £1000 for pure bred trouble when you can give a home to a dog that needs one.
> I am on rescue dog number 5 and we love him to bits.


Mongrel Vitality. best stuff in the world.

as it happens tho' I got a Border Collie and a Belgian Shepherd. both are, I s'pose pure bred, but thems both rescued.

Cant see why they were ababndoned in the first place, but , someone elses cast offs are my delights now.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Well done BBC and the expert contributors to that programme. Shame on the Kennel Club for allowing this appalling animal welfare crisis to develop almost unchecked, under their oversight. I hadn't realised how bad it had become. The Kennel Club is a disgrace. I read their defence PR and belive it is just a sticking plaster on a gaping septic wound.

I used to have 2 pedigree Bichon Frise dogs, bought at 8 weeks from a British breeder. Both developed serious health problems (diabetes, cancer) and both died much too young. I had humungous bills from the local Vet and the University Veterinary Research Hospital. I got used to doing daily urine tests and insulin injections, trying to balance food against blood sugar levels. Poor little doggies, always long suffering and cheerful despite everything, until they had to be put down. The breeder said it was just a risk associated with the breed. Until I saw this programme, I had thought I was just unlucky. Now I see I was swindled; sold poor inbred puppies doomed from the start.

Dog breeders need to be regulated by law to protect the dogs as well as the 75% of the public who buy pedigree pups. 

As for the ***** who set the breed standards, they need shooting. The Bichon Frise breed aren't originally toy dogs or handbag dogs. They are proper hunting dogs - have been since the 16th Century. I used to know a Frenchman who went hunting with his Bichons. No way could his Bichons have won any prizes at Crufts, but they could run through the woods for hours and were happy as pigs in muck.

As a nation of supposed dog lovers we should all be ashamed to have allowed this appalling scandalalous utter disgrace to happen. RSPCA, please prosecute the showers and breeders concerned for cruelty. Send a few to prison "pour encourager les autres".

The Government MUST change the law. BERR has legal powers to do it so I hope that they petition the High Court to wind up the Kennel Club. I doubt they will.

Sorry, but that programme made me incandescent with rage. I am looking at the caskets that contain the ashes of my beloved dogs as I type. End of rant.

SD


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Dont think the KC will end anytime soon. They got too much money, too much influence, and they're sponsored by too many big companies.

However, its not all their fault. Surely the buyer must take some responsibility.

WHat I mean is......IF you are looking for a motorhome, you come on here, you ask questions, ask what the problems are with a certain motorhome, you do the reearch. Same with any consumable item, white good, computers, all are often asked about.

Look in the Pets forum. Few occassions do you get..

" I'm looking at buying a ***breed dog/cat.hampster/honeybadger. whatever. "

Breeders should be made responsible for ensuring that prospective owners are

Conversant with the breed, looking after a dog in the fist place, that the property is adequate for the dog.
Owner should be licensed, an exam for a small fee to the RSPCA or another suitably qualified charity. 
Dog licences of say £ 20.00 per year. per dog should be introduced, with the fees going to the big charity purse, and shared between the dog resuce charities. 


Breeders should be licensed with the local authority, who would hand the cash over to the animal charitie, who are empowered and required to make visits bi annually to the breeders property, and they should hae real teeth, the ability to shut a dealer down, and the fines for infringement should be substantial. The breeders licence could be say £5,000.00 per year.


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

Where are all these members who show there doggies come on folks what do you think?
Trouble is I'm guilty myself for buying 2 pedigree dogs, one is full pedigree (from a KC litter but got the papers) the other is what the breeder called old style Charlie, she is completly different from the KC, but just as sweet.


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## Bubblehead (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi

I havnt owned a dog for about 18 years now due to work commitments but the programme shocked me to the core. The boxer having a fit was very distressing (more so for the dog and its owners).

This from a nation of dog lovers!

If there was ever a need for action from the goverment this is it. However I doubt this goverment will do anything.

The KC and the breaders should hang their heads in shame.

Andy


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

It seems the BBC might be reviewing their support of Crufts after the programme.

:: LINK ::

Gerald


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## neah (Mar 20, 2007)

I watched the programe last night until I heard the pitiful howls of that poor boxer and couldn't watch any more.

I used to breed cavaliers on a very small scale and to my knowledge none of them inherited the terrible things I saw last night, my own cavs certainly didn't.

What I found just as gutwrenchingly upsetting was that the owners of these poor animals let them suffer like that. The tri colour cavalier was obviously in absolute agony whilst being FILMED, was this a one off occurance that a camera just happened to capture, I dont think so. I agree with everything that has been said about unscrupulous breeders and that the kennel club have no moral high ground to take, but where is the criticism towards owners who allow such terrible suffering. If that cavalier had belonged to me or I'm sure any other real animal lover, filming would have been the last thing on my mind. The one thing we can do for our pets that we cannot do for our families is prevent suffering, so what happened there.


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## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

I would think it was probably filmed by someone who needed to show vets etc what was going off with the pets, and to use against the KC, some one has to do it, if they hadn't filmed it the program wouldn't have had the impact and we wouldn't be talking about it now, it would have been swept under the carpet yet again!


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I too was horrified though, like titchy, not surprised as I have worked in the dog world all my life. I only ever bought one pedigree dog - a German Shepherd Dog - as I had just given up work to have a baby. I did all the research and chose a responsible breeder. The bitch I bought got anal furunculosis (hereditary condition) which eats into the dogs anus. She had several ops but had to be put down because of it. I kept her son and he turned out to have inherited cryptorchidism (retained testicle) from his mother's line. 
I was approached by someone very high up in the breed club and asked if I would allow him to be used at stud. I explained that he had an hereditary condition and she said "oh don't worry about that I only want a bitch from the litter anyway - I will sell the rest!!!).

There is a solution to this problem:-

1. Pass a law that states that all puppies MUST be microchipped before they leave the breeder. Nobody should ever buy an unmicrochipped puppy. This could be checked every time the dog went to the vet. (stop dog stealing too). The details of the breeder would be recorded and kept on a central register.

2. If the dog turns out to have an inherited condition the breeder is responsible for all vet fees or, if the owner chooses, has to take the dog back.

3. If the dog ever ends up in rescue the breeder would be held responsible for the dog's upkeep until it is rehomed.

In this way the breeder becomes responsible from birth to death of every puppy they breed. I guarantee that 99% of all breeders would give up the day that law was passed. That would leave us with the wondeful few who do everything in their power to improve the health and well being of their breed.

We must all write to our MPs and get something done!
Incidentally the dog magazine "DOGS TODAY" started this campaign a while ago. The editor Beverly Cuddy appeared early on in the programme.

Pat


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Another simple way would be for all prospective dog owners to be charged a registration fee to become an owner. Put the fee to £500 and make the seller responsible for registration and collection of the fees. 
This would ensure that we all thought twice about dog ownership and breeders would have to be registered and listed as are VAT businesses, and all transactions were recorded in detail.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

> There is a solution to this problem:-
> 
> 1. Pass a law that states that all puppies MUST be microchipped before they leave the breeder. Nobody should ever buy an unmicrochipped puppy. This could be checked every time the dog went to the vet. (stop dog stealing too). The details of the breeder would be recorded and kept on a central register.
> 
> ...


Hi patp I think that is a very good Idea
Lin


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## titchy (Jul 31, 2008)

I suggest we all watch ITV 1 tonight 9.00pm, a more informative program on canine behaviour I hope. 
If people continue to buy dogs for their looks rather than it's intelligence, companionship and how it will fit in to their lifestyle there will always be breeders trying to create the perfect fashion accessory.


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