# Banned from vaping in Tescos



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I got told off today in Tescos for sitting in the corner on the seats (as you do) while Mrs D did some shopping. Just sitting there minding my own business, tapping away on my phone (on here possibly) having a little puff on me ecig when some manager bloke comes storming over to inform me that smoking is not allowed on the premises and we cant get fined £2500!! I politely pointed out that I wasnt smoking and its not a real cigarette but an electric one. "Still banned" says he. Why says I it just omits water vapour and as far as I know its not actually illegal to smoke one indoors in public. I said of course I would refrain from using it if its Tescos rules but I find it hard to believe Tescos could get prosecuted and fined £2500, are you sure its the law said I. "Well our store will get fined by Tesco's." says he.:surprise:

I left it at that and put it away so tonight I had a quick google and was amazed to see how many places have banned them despite as far as I can see without any actual legislation against them. Why? All it emits is water vapour. What exactly is the problem?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

There was a move to ban vaping in every public area that smoking tobacco was banned in Wales. Rationale was that kids seeing adults breathing smoke/vapour wouldn't differentiate between tobacco and vaping.

Dick


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Stupidity.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I gather now its also supermarket policy to not allow you to even see proper cigarettes. Even if you are over 18 and want to buy some you have to know what you want and ask for them, they wont show you them.

I seriously worry about the way things are going in this country. Do we really believe now as well that kids are so stupid they cannot tell the difference between an ecig and a real one?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Good for Tescos.

We were at a pub restaurant in Bath the other week where there was no smoking on the outside terrace ( OK on the riverside grass below). Next to our table on this terrace 4 people arrived and began vaping away. We were literally covered in a wet cloud of a smell that I can only describe as tart's boudoir. Attar of Roses I imagine but pretty unpleasant. We could barely see the river for the fog produced. 

It might well be only water vapour but, I assume it's also been into the lungs of the smoker so could, depending on the health of the individual, contain all sorts of possible nasties other than the added smell.

Had there been anywhere to move to we'd have moved but the smell and clouds of water put me off my food. No-one from the restaurant attempted to ask them to move elsewhere despite them sitting under large NO Smoking notices so we assume their policy was vaping does not mean smoking.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Yes but you cannot have it both ways. People breathe over you and your food all the time if they are close by. I agree it does sound a bit extreme on this occasion but they banned proper smoking in public places and most people with any sense have given up proper **** as the electric ones are now having come of age just as good if not better and pretty much harmless but they want to ban them now as well it seems from public places. Personally I would ban children especially small ones from pubs etc. That makes more sense.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Grizzly said:


> ...... I assume it's also been into the lungs of the smoker so could, depending on the health of the individual, contain all sorts of possible nasties......


Pretty much the same as everyone else breathing air out then :wink2:


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

In my local the real smokers complained about the vapers so they have to go outside as well as them.:laugh:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Blizzard said:


> Pretty much the same as everyone else breathing air out then :wink2:


No, not unless the people next to you deliberately cough all over your food. This was being actively propelled over our table- mainly by the breeze but also by the very high volume of the stuff.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sorry Barry,

but I am not a fan of vaping, although not quite as anti as I am towards smoking......

If I had seen it from perhaps a little distance away would I have been able to tell the difference or would I have just assumed it was an irate person fed up with the restrictions put on virtually everything now.....?

It may well be that the Tesco's bloke failed the charm school course required for all dogsbody's and his approach leaves a lot to be desired, but in the end I would have been far from happy at seeing you sat there, apparently smoking....... :serious:

Dave :frown2:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Grizzly;2303578
We were literally covered in a wet cloud of a smell that I can only describe as tart's boudoir. Attar of Roses I imagine .[/QUOTE said:


> Oh what a sheltered life I've led
> 
> tony:smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Firms can place whatever restrictions they wish to on their premises (providing of course is not on race, colour, religion etc) 

A bit like many (most) French swimming pools insisting on no swim shorts only Speedo's.

If you don't like the rules, vote with your feet. 

Andy


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Grizzly said:


> No, not unless the people next to you deliberately cough all over your food. This was being actively propelled over our table- mainly by the breeze but also by the very high volume of the stuff.


You wouldn't normally notice how far someone's exhaled lung contents travel, unless they have Halitosis :surprise: and that is why we pick up so many airborne exhaled nasties.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Penquin said:


> If I had seen it from perhaps a little distance away would I have been able to tell the difference ......
> 
> Dave :frown2:


I've never really seen anyone vaping until the occasion I mention above as no-one does it round here- or seems to smoke either for that matter.

I don't think you could have confused it with smoking however as the huge clouds of wet white vapour are very different. The smell is slightly more pleasant but still settles and clings to your clothes and skin. I guess Tesco don't want their food packets to get all soggy !


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

barryd said:


> *I gather now its also supermarket policy to not allow you to even see proper cigarettes.* Even if you are over 18 and want to buy some you have to know what you want and ask for them, they wont show you them.
> 
> I seriously worry about the way things are going in this country. Do we really believe now as well that kids are so stupid they cannot tell the difference between an ecig and a real one?


It's not so much supermarket policy, as Government Legislation and a result of the European Union Tobacco Products Directive. The supermarkets are simply fulfilling their obligations under the Law.

This is an article regarding the Law on display of cigarettes:
https://www.acs.org.uk/advice/tobacco-display-ban/

This is an article regarding the Law on Vapes, cigarette packaging, etc:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/20/our-t...ed-heres-everything-you-need-to-know-5893582/

Many years ago I worked in an office where people smoked. I told them I wanted them to continue, because by doing so they were reducing my tax burden. It wasn't strictly true, but it made them blink.

My parents were both very heavy smokers and it may have harmed my lungs. Unintended consequences, and so I support the Law.

.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

. . . A bit like farting - maybe it's ok & acceptable if it smells nice but if it didn't . . .


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Dave, I think its pretty much a given that nobody would really light up a full fat *** in Tescos so using that as an excuse is pretty lame really. You would smell it immediately. The point is they invent something thats not harmful to you or people around you, doesnt smell (Well mine certainly dont) and because it looks a bit naughty or like smoking everybody bans it. Their choice not law.

Then it seems in one pub Vapers have to go outside because it appears the hard core proper smokers think its not fair

John (Hurricane) posts some interesting links about the law which seems to think by hiding stuff away, painting the packets green and not allowing anyone, not just kids to see them before they buy them will stop people smoking. Apparently in further madness news from the article by 2020 menthol cigs which is all I ever smoked will in fact be illegal as someone decided kiddies are more likely to smoke them as they taste nice. 

Does nobody else see the madness that is going on here? Im all for the smoking ban in pubs and public places etc and Im glad Ive quit not that I ever smoked much anyway but do we really need this kind of hand holding nanny state nonsense? You dont see it anywhere else in Europe. Dont get me wrong I am glad smoking is on the decline but whats next? Beer sold in under the counter plastic bottles with a skull and crossbones sign on? Pasties only available on the black market? Do we really need this much looking after?

As for Tesco man, you would think I had jumped up on the check out conveyor belt naked with an I love Morrisons sticker on me backside. Their rules and of course I will comply with them but I think we need to take a good hard look at ourselves.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I tend to look at those that do Vapour and try and decide which category they come into, either those that are unable to give up smoking through will power or even with help, or just posers who need to be noticed.They do tend to blame anybody quite vociferously but themselves for this habit.

cabby


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

cabby said:


> I tend to look at those that do Vapour and try and decide which category they come into, either those that are unable to give up smoking through will power or even with help, or just posers who need to be noticed.They do tend to blame anybody quite vociferously but themselves for this habit.
> 
> cabby


Vaping isnt smoking Cabby. I think many quite enjoy it. The different flavours etc. It costs next to nothing, nicotine believe it or not on its own is harmless. certainly no more harm than caffeine. In fact it has some good qualities. Reduces the chance of Parkinsons, stimulates the senses and makes your brain and reactions sharper. Its the other poisonous junk in cigarettes that will kill you.

I must admit though i tend to be discrete with my ecig generally and this bloke must have had eyes like a hawk as I think you do look a bit of a charlie puffing on one.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

I would take the view that these e cigarettes have not been proven to be entirely safe. Google will provide various reports of studies that have doubts about them.

I recall seeing adverts quoting doctors etc back in the 50s stating that smoking was good for you. Perhaps it is too early to be complacent. When you look at the litigation driven society we live in nowadays, no doubt organisations will have an eye to future PPI/accident at work style actions against anyone who looks good for a claim.

I must say my gut feeling towards them is one of unease, whilst recognising that they are a better option than tobacco.

I smoked around 20 a day for about half my life, so I don't believe I am too biased.

Davy


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

vicdicdoc said:


> . . . A bit like farting - maybe it's ok & acceptable if it smells nice but if it didn't . . .


Vic

You beat me to it:laugh:

Geoff


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## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

barryd said:


> you would think I had jumped up on the check out conveyor belt naked with an I love Morrisons sticker on me backside.


Damn! ...I can't un-envisage that now :eeeeek:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I'm not, in general, pro the nanny state but, if people cannot or will not give up cigarettes on their own initiative then I can see no reason why the state should not take an active role in making it easier.

I don't think their is any reason to think smoking is good for you, it raises revenue for the state but it also costs an immense amount in health and social care and the results cause misery for many.

The jury is still out on the harmlessness of vaping which I suspect is becoming a habit in itself rather than an aid to giving up cigarette smoking. There are effective more discrete means of dosing the body with nicotine. By all means continue that habit in the privacy of your own house but why should the rest of us be subjected to clouds of smelly vapour and the ridiculous sight of grown men with what look like thin dummies in their mouths ?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I used to smoke (stopped about 9 years ago) I heard someone ask another smoker if they wanted to die of stupidity, I took that on board and quit soon after, this vaping thing, looks bloody ridiculous to me, either quit or have a proper cig FFS, Vaping (sounds a bit limp wristed) is very unmanly to see, and not very womanly either :roll:

I wonder how long it'll be before there are health warnings on long term use of the damned smelly things, perhaps the bigger brands may be okay, but I've noticed shops springing up all over selling lord knows what much cheaper.

To be reliant on a stick which is on fire, or to give up then go onto another crutch seems such a waste of time, smoke or don't smoke but don't look a pratt instead of smoking.

I could murder a *** now   but I'll get over it.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

What I want to know is................

WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU DOING IN TESCO?

It is a well known fact (certainly here at Tugboat Towers) that you send MrsD in to struggle round the store with a trolley full of Leffe and pies, while you sit out in the car sending abusive texts or heavy breathing phone calls to innocent old sailors who are very vulnerable to that sort of stuff.

I know you're 'away' (oh boy, are you away!) and are prolly using the scoot, but supermarkets do usually have a few seats outside. Or go hijack an old lady's shopping trolley to sit on. Please don't go into Tesco again, your FC rep is in serious jeopardy here. You're giving me a fit of the vapours. (See what I did there? Shucks, I'm too good for you lot)


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

One of the best ways to make young people think twice about giving up or not starting smoking is, from years of teaching the subject, to add up how much is spent in a week, year, lifetime of smoking even moderately. Do the math gents and I suspect you'll be as surprised as we always were. 

Now that cigarette smoking is not considered such a macho thing to do I guess it's easier for teachers to cover the subject. How much does a lifetime of vaping cost I wonder and will that become a cool thing to do ?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I dare not even think of how much I wasted by burning, at least cigs were cheaper then, I'd hate to be caught up in it now, unfortunately they cover the shelves so I've no idea how much 20 **** cost today so no idea how much I have saved, but I was a 20-30 day man when working as sat behind a wheel is a bit boring day after day and werthers originals lose there appeal after a while.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Tesco prices...

http://m.tesco.com/h5/groceries/r/w...rowse/default.aspx?N=4293104171&Ne=4294793660


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> Tesco prices...
> 
> http://m.tesco.com/h5/groceries/r/w...rowse/default.aspx?N=4293104171&Ne=4294793660


Thanks, I was a rolly man mostly, fun when driving, so not too bad, £10 ish would last me a couple of days, as opposed to £2 ish when I stopped, less if you bought it in a greasy spoon on the Alfa One.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> I'm not, in general, pro the nanny state but, if people cannot or will not give up cigarettes on their own initiative then I can see no reason why the state should not take an active role in making it easier.
> 
> *I don't think their is any reason to think smoking is good for you, *it raises revenue for the state but it also costs an immense amount in health and social care and the results cause misery for many.
> 
> The jury is still out on the harmlessness of vaping which I suspect is becoming a habit in itself rather than an aid to giving up cigarette smoking. There are effective more discrete means of dosing the body with nicotine. By all means continue that habit in the privacy of your own house but *why should the rest of us be subjected to clouds of smelly vapour and the ridiculous sight of grown men with what look like thin dummies in their mouths* ?


Nobody said smoking was good for you? It isnt, we know that. If the government are so concerned why dont they ban it completely. As said there is no real reason to smoke proper cigs anymore.

Why should I be subjected to women who dont know how to apply a small amount of perfume in a restaurant but instead fill the air with a choking amount of whatever disgusting stuff they chose to slap on all over that evening? Lets go another step further. What about ugly people? I might not want to see them either.

I agree though as said, you do look a bit stupid but you would think people would be happy that smokers have quit and found something safer. How safe to the user and how safe to you as a passive vaper? Well pretty safe it would seem for the vaper but totally safe for you. Teddy bears kill more people than vaping.

What passive vaping and smoking emits


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I used to smoke (stopped about 9 years ago) I heard someone ask another smoker if they wanted to die of stupidity, I took that on board and quit soon after, this vaping thing, looks bloody ridiculous to me, *either quit or have a proper cig FFS,* Vaping (sounds a bit limp wristed) is very unmanly to see, and not very womanly either :roll:
> 
> *I wonder how long it'll be before there are health warnings on long term use of the damned smelly things, perhaps the bigger brands may be okay,* but I've noticed shops springing up all over selling lord knows what much cheaper.
> 
> ...


Surely you would rather those that cannot quit or dont want to do something thats pretty much safe in comparison even if they do look a bit of a tit doing it.

Any vape manufacturer has to adhere to strict rules and guidelines, you cannot just make stuff and flog it down the market. I wonder though how long it will be before they are taxed. The government will be loosing a shed load of money in lost revenue from *** sales.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

tugboat said:


> What I want to know is................
> 
> WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU DOING IN TESCO?
> 
> ...


Its a fair point. I was out of my normal Domain but I just thought I would see what the inside of one of these so called "Super" markets looked like. Rubbish I would say and full of little Hitlers.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Nobody said smoking was good for you? It isnt, we know that. If the government are so concerned why dont they ban it completely. As said there is no real reason to smoke proper cigs anymore.
> 
> Why should I be subjected to women who dont know how to apply a small amount of perfume in a restaurant but instead fill the air with a choking amount of whatever disgusting stuff they chose to slap on all over that evening? Lets go another step further. What about ugly people? I might not want to see them either.
> 
> ...


So are you saying (PLEEEEZE) that you are no longer going to flaunt your videos and music onto us then Barfs


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh I can't do with reading all this, I'm off out for a ***!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Surely you would rather those that cannot quit or dont want to do something thats pretty much safe in comparison even if they do look a bit of a tit doing it.
> 
> Any vape manufacturer has to adhere to strict rules and guidelines, you cannot just make stuff and flog it down the market. I wonder though how long it will be before they are taxed. The government will be loosing a shed load of money in lost revenue from *** sales.


Yes! quit by any means, but I know two people who vape, but never smoked, some peeps are feckin thick.

You're a bit out of touch there Barry, there has been counterfeit booze and cigs around for decades, I imagine these scrotes jumped onto the vape bandwagon with glee.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

From a poacher turned gamekeeper 
I don´t understand why, if you have given up the nicotine habit, do you still have to have something that resambles a *** dangling from your mouth,
It tells me your still a baby that need the comfort of a dummy >

M


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> From a poacher turned gamekeeper
> I don´t understand why, if you have given up the nicotine habit, do you still have to have something that resambles a *** dangling from your mouth,
> It tells me your still a baby that need the comfort of a dummy >
> 
> M


Ecigs do have nicotine Jan. they vary in strength from zero to high. Until recently they were a pretty poor substitute but now IMO are better than normal cigs (if better is the right word). Years ago some beardies used to smoke pipes. Maybe some newbies see vaping as the new pipe I dunno.

For me I tried giving up properly on and off for years and despite me not smoking that much I could never do it. This has been the next best thing for me really and I am delighted to have been able to knock the proper **** on the head as a result of this new technology (although I may occasionally in the middle of the night full of beer be seen puffing a real one  )

Real cigs I find now pretty vile. I can understand how disgusting they were to non smokers. I can now have a puff in the car now before seeing client without turning up smelling like an ash tray as well. I can even smoke on a job in an office or someones house so I am not thinking after a couple of hours about having a smoke outside or when I leave. Ideally it would be best to not have to even use an ecig but its got to be better than smoking.


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## flyinghigh (Dec 10, 2012)

The wife has been smoking for years and last year decided to try vaping instead, its was ok for about six months then she had problems with breathing, (couldn't catch her breath) then we found out about 
popcorn lung. http://www.medicinenet.com/popcorn_lung_symptoms_and_causes/views.htm

she stopped vaping and is improving all the while, the bottom line for us is if you can help it don't introduce chemicals into your lungs that aren't meant to be their, 
we totally understand about airborne pollution, I used to change pollen filters every year on vehicles inside the M25 and they would come out blacker than a coal miners hands, but to deliberately suck in chemicals and pay good money for the privilege is beyond me, IMO


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> From a poacher turned gamekeeper
> I don´t understand why, if you have given up the nicotine habit, do you still have to have something that resambles a *** dangling from your mouth,
> It tells me your still a baby that need the comfort of a dummy >
> 
> M


Ecigs do have nicotine Jan. they vary in strength from zero to high. Until recently they were a pretty poor substitute but now IMO are better than normal cigs (if better is the right word). Years ago some beardies used to smoke pipes. Maybe some newbies see vaping as the new pipe I dunno.

For me I tried giving up properly on and off for years and despite me not smoking that much I could never do it. This has been the next best thing for me really and I am delighted to have been able to knock the proper **** on the head as a result of this new technology (although I may occasionally in the middle of the night full of beer be seen puffing a real one  )

Real cigs I find now pretty vile. I can understand how disgusting they were to non smokers. I can now have a puff in the car now before seeing client without turning up smelling like an ash tray as well. I can even smoke on a job in an office or someones house so I am not thinking after a couple of hours about having a smoke outside or when I leave. Ideally it would be best to not have to even use an ecig but its got to be better than smoking.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Ecigs do have nicotine Jan.


Bad example then.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

*Everything has its consequences ......*


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Barryd,Have you got a link for that fact aboutNicotine and Parkinsons, only there is nothing I can find on their website.

cabby


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Bad example then.


I should have linked to the article. The above is what is exhaled in the water vapour that comes out on the breath of an Ecig smoker not what goes in.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

barryd said:


> Ecigs do have nicotine Jan. they vary in strength from zero to high. Until recently they were a pretty poor substitute but now IMO are better than normal cigs (if better is the right word). Years ago some beardies used to smoke pipes. Maybe some newbies see vaping as the new pipe I dunno.
> 
> For me I tried giving up properly on and off for years and despite me not smoking that much I could never do it. This has been the next best thing for me really and I am delighted to have been able to knock the proper **** on the head as a result of this new technology (although I may occasionally in the middle of the night full of beer be seen puffing a real one  )
> 
> Real cigs I find now pretty vile. I can understand how disgusting they were to non smokers. I can now have a puff in the car now before seeing client without turning up smelling like an ash tray as well. I can even smoke on a job in an office or someones house so I am not thinking after a couple of hours about having a smoke outside or when I leave. Ideally it would be best to not have to even use an ecig but its got to be better than smoking.


You seem to be making a statement I am supposed to hear 'coz you've said it twice.
I'm not deaf.>


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

cabby said:


> Barryd,Have you got a link for that fact aboutNicotine and Parkinsons, only there is nothing I can find on their website.
> 
> cabby


Benefits of Nicotine. http://tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/nicotine.htm

No idea if its true or not but the word Nicotine just evokes all sorts of horrendous thoughts when actually its not really harmful and may have benefits. Apparently.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> I should have linked to the article. The above is what is exhaled in the water vapour that comes out on the breath of an Ecig smoker not what goes in.


Ah, that makes a bit more sense, lets you see what they mean about passive smoking too, nasty evil bloody habit, glad you've more or less got off it though   Just the Pies, cheese and booze left to go.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Ah, that makes a bit more sense, lets you see what they mean about passive smoking too, nasty evil bloody habit, glad you've more or less got off it though   *Just the Pies, cheese and booze left to go.*


And a few other nasty habits as well, but I'm being paid a lot of money not to divulge details.

I am being paid, aren't I Bazza?:laughing6:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

tugboat said:


> And a few other nasty habits as well, but I'm being paid a lot of money not to divulge details.
> 
> I am being paid, aren't I Bazza?:laughing6:


I'll double it if you provide pictures too > >


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Take no notice of 'em Barry, they're jealous. :wink2:

I'm with you all the way on the vaping jobbie.
Like yourself I only use a low nicotine menthol liquid. No smell whatsoever, no nasty tar or deadly chemicals and no big clouds of smoke (unless of course you're trying to draw attention to yourself - as some seem keen to do).
Unlike **** they don't make your clothes stink, don't make you cough or give you a bad chest, don't leave a nasty taste, don't result in "dog ends" all over the floor, don't fill up smelly ashtrays and don't leave nasty brown stains on the environment. They also don't break the bank, fund the unethical tobacco company shareholders or help the taxman fill up his coffers.
Whether there are any health risks from them isn't clear yet but most authorities agree that they're much less harmful than ****. I would urge any smoker to try them, anything is better than smoking ****. I really don't agree with the people who contend that they encourage youngsters to start smoking, smoking and vaping are very different experiences. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine any young person ever wanting to damage their street cred by sucking a daft looking electric dummy.

Live and let live for goodness sake.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Can I ask, why not the patches then, rather than a pipe for the hands having something to do, I say that as an ex smoker, not knowing what to do with ones hands was a bother.
Should I consider the use of nicotine patches for a Parkinson sufferer. Do they come in different strengths.

cabby


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

gaspode said:


> Live and let live for goodness sake.


..

There are VERY many comments, which VERY many people agree with that the UK is increasingly becoming a "Nanny State" where the State decides what you can and cannot do and where you can or cannot do it.

Interesting aside and totally {offtopic} is regarding cycle helmets and the compulsory wearing of them......

(You might expect and you would be correct that I am in favour of them from my ambulance work).

The relevant Minister is recorded as saying that they "are not considering making them compulsory and will not do so until most people wear them...."

to me the phrase relating horses, stable doors and bolting over the hill comes to mind....

We are only going to legislate when everyone is doing it........ >

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Take no notice of 'em Barry, they're jealous. :wink2:
> 
> I'm with you all the way on the vaping jobbie.
> Like yourself I only use a low nicotine menthol liquid. No smell whatsoever, no nasty tar or deadly chemicals and no big clouds of smoke (unless of course you're trying to draw attention to yourself - as some seem keen to do).
> ...


Well said that man! There may be health risks but I bet something else I do finishes me off PDQ before Ecigs do. The way things are shaping up the Ruskies or the good ole USA will soon see to it anyway.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> ..
> 
> There are VERY many comments, which VERY many people agree with that the UK is increasingly becoming a "Nanny State" where the State decides what you can and cannot do and where you can or cannot do it.
> 
> ...


I think this is where you and I will disagree Dave. I cycle, I do not wear a helmet, lycra or any of the other crap associated with cycling these days. Never did when I was 8 and lived to tell the tale. We need to stop wrapping everyone up in cotton wool and thinking they cannot look after themselves or have any common sense.

Its crazy when you think about it. We seem to make laws and rules about everything and suppress just about anything in public then regarding the most important change in British history (The EU) we just let them get on with it and decide.  You really, really couldnt make it up.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> Can I ask, why not the patches then, rather than a pipe for the hands having something to do, I say that as an ex smoker, not knowing what to do with ones hands was a bother.
> Should I consider the use of nicotine patches for a Parkinson sufferer. Do they come in different strengths.
> 
> cabby


I tried patches several times and found them a complete waste of time. Lozenges are better but vaping beats the lot hands down. I don't see why being a Parkinson sufferer would make any difference (as long as you could hold the E-cig steady enough that is). In fact I believe some folk make their own cannabis liquid - which might even be beneficial.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> I think this is where you and I will disagree Dave. I cycle, I do not wear a helmet, lycra or any of the other crap associated with cycling these days. Never did when I was 8 and lived to tell the tale. We need to stop wrapping everyone up in cotton wool and thinking they cannot look after themselves or have any common sense.
> 
> Its crazy when you think about it. We seem to make laws and rules about everything and suppress just about anything in public then regarding the most important change in British history (The EU) we just let them get on with it and decide.  You really, really couldnt make it up.


But it was mainly your beloved EU that instigated all these nanny laws!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> ..
> 
> There are VERY many comments, which VERY many people agree with that the UK is increasingly becoming a "Nanny State" where the State decides what you can and cannot do and where you can or cannot do it.
> 
> ...


Isn't that how you train animals to do tricks, wait for them to do something then make the command :roll:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Whether you agree with wearing cycle or motorcycle helmets or not is not important. There is a substantial body of evidence, both evidential and circumstantial, that the outcome of an accident in which the head is involved is better if the victim was wearing a helmet. Keeping people suffering from head injuries alive and, possibly helping them to recover some faculties, costs an immense amount of money and causes suffering all round, so the state does have a financial interest.

We found, in school, that the boys saw helmet wearing as distinctly uncool and those who chose to do so had to be pretty strong minded to carry on. So, we made it a condition of being allowed to use a bike to get to school. No helmet; no bike storage place at school and you either walked or got a bus. Staff came from several parts of the town and surrounding countryside so we well able to note those who thought they could put the helmet on as they got towards the gates.

This very rapidly had the effect of making the wearing of helmets uncontentious and accepted as the norm. 

As with many other habits- smoking, drug taking and so on- the teenage boy ( and possibly girl but I have little experience there) doesn't respond well to being told "Don't do it". What they need is the form of words necessary to be able to refuse to do something without losing face among their friends. The nanny state has done well to make smoking seem anti-social and is attempting to do the same to other less-desirable habits. "I'm wearing my helmet because the plod warned me " is a little better than " I'm wearing my helmet because I think it's safer" in the thinking of many of those boys who are most vulnerable. Seems to work in Spain where we now find helmet wearing is the norm.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

gaspode said:


> I tried patches several times and found them a complete waste of time. Lozenges are better but vaping beats the lot hands down. I don't see why being a Parkinson sufferer would make any difference (as long as you could hold the E-cig steady enough that is). *In fact I believe some folk make their own cannabis liquid - which might even be beneficial*.


Is that true? I would like to try that. I did wonder if anyone had done it and searched about a bit a while back but to no avail.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> But it was mainly your beloved EU that instigated all these nanny laws!


Actually I think you will find that quite the opposite is true. It is in fact the UK that seems obsessed with daft laws and the nanny state. We are also guilty of following every rule and reg that might be a bit daft coming from Europe to the letter where really we should just do what the French do and interpret them properly as we see fit or as in some cases just ignore them completely. If we do leave the EU I think you will be in for a shock as the nanny state will indeed get worse.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

barryd said:


> I did wonder if anyone had done it and searched about a bit a while back but to no avail.


You've not searched recently. It's all there ; how to make cannabis liquid for e-cigarettes etc in glorious detail and in full view.

If the MHF search function works then, looking back, you'll see we've been this way before.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

barryd said:


> Actually I think you will find that quite the opposite is true. It is in fact the UK that seems obsessed with daft laws and the nanny state. We are also guilty of following every rule and reg that might be a bit daft coming from Europe to the letter where really we should just do what the French do and interpret them properly as we see fit or as in some cases just ignore them completely. If we do leave the EU I think you will be in for a shock as the nanny state will indeed get worse.


Maybe we were trying to be good Europeans. And the rest of Europe just took the p**s. But it was still your precious EU that issued those daft laws and directives that has cramped our industries and businesses..


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Bike helmets - Mrs Zeb wouldn't be here today had she not been wearing one when she head butted a French road from a height of about 8 feet! The Farmer who watched her pirouetting off her bike said, _"Eet wos spectacoolair. La femme do ze loop in ze hair and 'it wiz 'er haid, ze road."_

As for e-**** and many other nanny rules, it's a sad fact that the more "advanced" and sophisticated society becomes - the less personal freedoms we are allowed!

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

No one mentioned big bruvver yet though, we are all spied on in cities.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> As for e-**** and many other nanny rules, it's a sad fact that the more "advanced" and sophisticated society becomes - the less personal freedoms we are allowed!
> 
> Dave


No-one has banned e cigarettes or any other kind of cigarettes. Surely however it is a right of any citizen of said state to be able to live as comfortable and sensible ( not the right word but I can't think of it and i'm in a rush) a life as is possible and- importantly- to enable others to live as well as possible by making sure their habits don't give gross offence. Mostly we manage this without interference from the state but occasionally the state has to interfere.

I don't think there are many of us that are unaware of the fact that- say- an unbalanced diet and little exercise might well make us fat and generally not function as well as we are designed to do. The state has to pick up the bill for knee and hip replacements, heart problems, loss of a healthy workforce, diabetes etc etc etc which results from this. For state read me and you via our taxes. If, as seems likely, many people can't or wont change their lifestyle to do this themselves then either the state helps them, with a little persuasion in terms of rising prices for some foods and drinks along with provision of exercise facilities etc ( aka " the nanny state" ) OR, it says tough mate and, if you got yourself into this state then we will not pay for your new knee or daily insulin or give you benefits because you can't do a full days work and earn money to pay taxes.

We can't have it all ways.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> OR, it says tough mate and, if you got yourself into this state then we will not pay for your new knee or daily insulin or give you benefits because you can't do a full days work and earn money to pay taxes.


Can't argue with any of your points Grizz, and in some cases I would be in favour of your final comment as quoted above. :surprise: _(As a simple example, some of those who claim to have an over active metabolism are often really suffering from an over active knife and fork!! If it doesn't go past your teeth it can't make you fat!!)_

There are many caveats of course, and it's a very complex problem - not least because of the type and quality of the food we are told we want by the supermarkets and the food industry. There's a whole new debate there, plus the way the medical profession keeps changing its collective mind about what is good or bad for us.

The biggest problem with being over regulated is losing the ability to think for yourself.

Just one example is pedestrian crossings. How many times have we approached a crossing, being the only vehicle in either direction on a dead straight road, and someone presses the button as we are 20 yards away and forces us to slam the brakes on and stop!! If they had their brain in gear they would realise that it would be *a lot quicker for them* to let us pass and then walk, rather than have to wait for the green light to come on and give them permission.

I wonder sometimes how I managed to survive this long without a minute to minute instruction manual!! :wink2:

Dave


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

barryd said:


> Is that true? I would like to try that. I did wonder if anyone had done it and searched about a bit a while back but to no avail.


From what I remember Barry, all they do is soak leaves in glycerol for a day or two then filter the liquid and smoke it. I'm sure there are instructions somewhere on the internet, I stumbled across them accidentally of course. :wink2:
I thought at the time, it would be a good solution for MS sufferers who use cannabis to relieve their symptoms.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Just one example is pedestrian crossings. How many times have we approached a crossing, being the only vehicle in either direction on a dead straight road, and someone presses the button as we are 20 yards away and forces us to slam the brakes on and stop!! If they had their brain in gear they would realise that it would be *a lot quicker for them* to let us pass and then walk, rather than have to wait for the green light to come on and give them permission.
> 
> Dave


Plus one on that, anyone under about 30 fine, but folk our age were taught properly how to cross a major road, then we had Panda crossings etc, how many even know what a belisha beacon is, they see them, but don't know what they are called, or how to properly use a Zebra or what action to take when driving, schools and parents used to take care of this stuff, then it went to TV and they showed us how dangerous it was to cross a road eating a peach, then they said sod it, let them sort themselves out, then did an about turn and started making rules we could all break and charge us for it.

I'm all for safety, but making laws does not change much, as most are impossible to enforce, education is the key, always has been, now the education is based on if you screw up it'll cost you, public attitude also makes big changes as in drink driving.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

How many know who the Belisha beacon was named after.

_(Don't you just hate smug gits who collects useless scraps of information - just so they can show off with them!!!! :wink2: :grin2_


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Yes, it's hugely complex but, in the best of all possible worlds, everyone would behave sensibly, safely and with consideration for their fellow men. That many don't makes it more difficult and rule-driven for the majority. So many on here complain bitterly about " little Hitler " wardens and notice-plastered walls in the 2 camping clubs. Doesn't it occur to them that if people did not leave the place in a mess, drive far too fast on site, let their children cycle on places where others don't expect to meet a bike, let their dogs do their business on the pitch and so on and so on and so on then there would be no need for the notices ? The " little Hitler" warden you meet is the same nice man you spoke to on an aire in Spain over winter. After his working day has been disrupted by dealing with the results of someone flushing a loo roll down the lavatory and flooding the block or listening to the complaints of someone who has walked dog dirt into their van then he would be a saint if he did not, occasionally, come over a bit short !

I don't buy the " teach it in school" approach. Schools have sufficient to do without adding on the basics that parents should have taught their children from year dot. Ten minutes in a corner of Tesco - not vaping- makes you realise that this does not happen and some children are, bluntly, almost feral.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

gaspode said:


> From what I remember Barry, all they do is soak leaves in glycerol for a day or two then filter the liquid and smoke it. I'm sure there are instructions somewhere on the internet, I stumbled across them accidentally of course. :wink2:
> I thought at the time, it would be a good solution for MS sufferers who use cannabis to relieve their symptoms.


I don't think I would trust myself to make some. Just wondered if you could actually buy it but I assume it would be illegal so not for sale online. I thought it might help with the pain in my Arthritic knees which apparently is my own fault as Im a bit overweight so had better not ask for new ones as it comes out of wealthy motorhomers tax despite me paying plenty and some over the years. 

Spacerunner. I should ask you to name some of these daft EU laws but we should save it for the Brexit thread.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> I don't buy the " teach it in school" approach. Schools have sufficient to do without adding on the basics that parents should have taught their children from year dot. Ten minutes in a corner of Tesco - not vaping- makes you realise that this does not happen and some children are, bluntly, almost feral.


I disagree with the not teaching in schools Grizz, what more important lessons for life are there than taking control of your own safety, better that then teaching them how to pass a test with barely no understanding of the subject, (same for the driving test nowadays) the best lesson I ever had was the one which taught me how to learn, unfortunately it didn't help me at school but in later life it helped me survive and pick up skills no school taught me.

Parents may not be the best teachers, they are not trained to do so, some are barely educated themselves, and you have to assume that they were taught at some point which is dangerous to do.

Just my opinion


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I disagree with the not teaching in schools Grizz, what more important lessons for life are there than taking control of your own safety, better that then teaching them how to pass a test with barely no understanding of the subject, (same for the driving test nowadays) the best lesson I ever had was the one which taught me how to learn, unfortunately it didn't help me at school but in later life it helped me survive and pick up skills no school taught me.
> 
> Parents may not be the best teachers, they are not trained to do so, some are barely educated themselves, and you have to assume that they were taught at some point which is dangerous to do.
> 
> Just my opinion


What do you do though Kev ?

You have, in the same class in this wonderful comprehensive system of ours, children who are barely house-trained and those who are keen to learn about the wonders of the world around them - which might even include all about Hore Belisha.

Most subjects on the curriculum include a good chunk of information on life skills, nutrition, health, safety etc in among the how things work, who was what and when in history and how to manipulate figures and understand the mechanics of the world about us. I've yet to meet a teacher- and I've trained a good many in my life- who is not keen to pass on, by example or word, the skills necessary for being a good citizen and a decent person.

However, in the average comp you have young people in front of you for 5 hours per day of lessons. Rightly there is a lot to get through in those 5 hours, whether for exams or because it is a good thing to do. Primary colleagues, have even more critical things to teach; if you can't read, write and add up then you're not going to be able to go very far in the modern world. What do they do about the child who is still in nappies ? The child who has never held a book ? The child who has not got sufficient vocabulary to be able to hold a conversation ? The child who thinks it's fine to shout, scream and run about whenever they are told to do something ? No problem if they are the only child in your class but many primaries are now running with 30+ per class.

I don't believe that any parent, unless they have severe mental health problems, is unable to impart a measure of good manners, sensible behaviour, consideration for others and general all round life skills if they set their mind to it. From what I see around me however many young mothers are more concerned about their cyber friends on their phone and their child, in a pushchair, is left to learn it's conversational arts from the likes of old ladies like me who can't resist talking to them. Only this morning I watched a child in a pushchair trying hard to attract the attention of his Facebooking mother as he had his coat hood caught on the pushchair frame. I don't think she'd have noticed until he strangled himself.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> What do you do though Kev ?
> 
> You have, in the same class in this wonderful comprehensive system of ours, children who are barely house-trained and those who are keen to learn about the wonders of the world around them - which might even include all about Hore Belisha.
> 
> ...


I think the teaching I mean should be done in primary school, as for the modern parent go into any big city supermarket at the weekend and look at how they jsut let kids do what they want, tantrums are rewarded, no is ignored, not allowed to chastise anymore and kids are quick learners so take advantage.


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