# Uncle Norman / Auntie Sandra - broken down :(



## geraldandannie

We've just received an email from Auntie Sandra. I'm sure she won't mind me passing on their news.

After Norman's recent medical issues:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopt...r-not-finished-yet-next-chapter-starting.html

I know they were both looking forward to returning to France for a well-earned break. However, it seems that there's been a problem with their "Coral", and what looked like a quick job on a radiator hose has turned into a new head and gasket 8O Rather than get it fixed over there, they're arranging repatriation for the van, and they'll fly home when it's on its way.

Altogether, a very sad tale. They deserved a good break after their trials over the past year. I hope their journey home is as good as it can be, and that "Our Coral" (as they call her) will soon be repaired, and good as new.

Gerald


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Wishing them both a safe journey home

Dave p


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## rayrecrok

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Wishing them both a safe journey home
> 
> Dave p


Me too.


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## locovan

Oh dear Norman you didnt need that after all the problems you have had.
Good luck and hope it is fixed so you can return to France soon xxx


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## artona

Thats dreadful news

stew


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## catzontour

Oh dear, hope they get back safely, without too much stress.

Catz


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## ramblingon

Good wishes and a safe journey from me. Sometimes bad things happen for good outcomes. Keep smiling.


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## raynipper

Where are they?? Or were they??

Ray.


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## Rapide561

*Journey*



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Wishing them both a safe journey home
> 
> Dave p


Same here.

Russell


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## coppo

I too hope they have a safe journey home and are back on the road again very soon .

Paul.


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## locovan

raynipper said:


> Where are they?? Or were they??
> 
> Ray.


Pm Gerald Ray x


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## eddievanbitz

*Re: Journey*



Rapide561 said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishing them both a safe journey home
> 
> Dave p
> 
> 
> 
> Same here.
> 
> Russell
Click to expand...

And again! 

Eddie


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## artona

I phoned Cousin Katie earlier this evening to see if they needed picking up and it seems, as I should have known they are on top of the situation and not allowing things to upset their holiday.

Their pre tour planning has things covered and they are ok. So I shall put my passport away


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## rosalan

So sorry Auntie Sandra but I feel sure that Uncle Norm will have sorted something out to make the best of things and hopefully come up with a bunch of roses and a tale to tell.
Alan


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## suedew

Also hope they are soon home and 'our coral' on the mend.
Thanks to all for keeping us updated
Sue n John


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## JohnGun

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Wishing them both a safe journey home
> 
> Dave p


Ditto


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## geraldandannie

raynipper said:


> Where are they?? Or were they??


Norman and Sandra tend to 'roam' over there. Sandra did say they would be flying back from Limousin, so I would guess they're in that area.

Gerald


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## cousinkatie

Hi I spoke to them earlier this evening. They are in Issoire off the A75.
Basically the "garage mechanic" has decided that the head gasket has gone so therefore he can not fix it. This was after he took the Coral out for a test drive and it returned with contents from the lockers strewn all over all and things like water bottles and kettles, that never move, all over the floor. In my dad's words the "mechanic" has "thrashed it" and most probably made the repair situation worse. 
I am quite curious to see what a UK mechanic says when the Coral returns. I can't believe that the head gasket has gone after only 25,000, carefully driven, miles! My dad, myself and the Caravan Club all agree that he just doesn't want to fix it!
Fortunately mum and dad took out red pennant insurance before they went away which means that all costs, including returning van and folks to the UK, will be covered. My mum's main concern at the moment is that the clothing she took with her is not suitable for the hotel they are currently in!
Hopefully tomorrow the Coral will be resited to a caravan site where they will spend the rest of their holiday before flying back to the UK. Fortunately they have a hire car so they will still be able to get out and about. The Coral will also be returned from there to a local garage.
I think this definitely beats their France holiday where the wheel fell off!
Next time I'm going to recommend anywhere but France for their next holiday!


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## asprn

Thanks for the update. How dreadful. The mechanique sounds like a complete idiot! Norman & Sandra - when you read this - sorry for your hassles - hope you find a silver lining in it all somehow.

Dougie.


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## geraldandannie

Thanks for the update, Katie.

I hope your mum and dad won't mind me posting their news here. I know they both have many friends on MHF, met online and in the flesh. We miss not having seen them since your mum's fish bone episode when they stayed with us!

Please pass on our best wishes, and we hope they get everything sorted as soon as possible, and we see them out and about again before too long.

Gerald and Annie.


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## JockandRita

Hi Katie,

Thanks too from us for the update, and thanks also to *Gerald* for the "heads up".

Please pass on our very best to Mum & Dad. Having been there and done that......twice now, we sympathise fully with their predicament.

Kindest regards,

Jock & Rita.


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## mandyandandy

Wish them all the luck for the rest of their holiday, I am sure we will hear all about it when they get back. 

Such a shame they don't employ mechanics that own MH's and realise that things can fly when on the move. 

Thanks for the update Katie, 

Mandy


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## locovan

Katie so glad they have everything under control and are in fact enjoying a (holiday) still.
Good luck x


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## UncleNorm

mandyandandy said:


> Wish them all the luck for the rest of their holiday, I am sure we will hear all about it when they get back.
> 
> Such a shame they don't employ mechanics that own MH's and realise that things can fly when on the move.
> 
> Thanks for the update Katie,
> 
> Mandy


Thanks everyone for expressing your concerns. Rest assured, we're not in PAIN!! :roll: :lol: But it's all bloody annoying. Yes, Mandy, you'll be getting it in chapters when we get home!! We're in the Hotel Ibis, in Issoire, and it has a daily allowance of wifi. We're waiting to hear from the Caravan Club as to the time 'Our Coral' is to be uplifted and transported to a camp site of our choosing, where she will be used as a static base. When we fly home on 20 July into Leeds, courtesy of Caravan Club Red Pennant, we will make arrangements for Our Coral to be repatriated. Isn't it fun?! :evil: :wink:

I have to say, despite my having a go at the Caravan Club about their motorhome insurance advertising, that the staff have been real stars, sorting hotels, hire car, extending periods, paying bills, constantly reassuring us... We just need to hear from them when the office opens in the UK at 09:00, another hour.

So thanks to daughter 'cousinkatie' for giving you all an accurate account of our adventure thus far, although it's Limoges we fly out of later. And big thanks for the support from 'back home'!  :wink: :lol:


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## artona

I think the Coral decided you need to sit in the sun for a couple of weeks Norm and do nothing, a new experience for you I acknowledge    

stew


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## locovan

To be honest it sounds well organised now, only you could do that, so good luck and enjoy the rest of the "holiday" and we will have the full report when you get home. :wink:


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## UncleNorm

Just heard from Sheila of Caravan Club. Sadly  Monsieur le Garageman can't move us until tomorrow at 8.00am. :evil: I reckon he's after extra storage charges!! And as for 8 in the morning, that means we'll need to be up just after midnight!! :roll: :wink: :lol: 

This hotel is very much more obliging though. The Tour de France is coming through Issoire this Sunday and I'd expect the Hotel to be full even now. But we're OK for another night. That'll be SEVEN nights in hotels. I can understand what we see in our motorhome, as long as it can move under it's own steam!! Pun intended!!

I stopped the engine within 2-3 seconds of the warning buzzer sounding, plus AuntieSandra screaming RED LIGHT at me, and a message scrolling across the screen. I would have thought that damage to cylinder heads would have been minimal, perhaps in need of reskimming, with new gasket. So why does M Garageman declare the need for a NEW head. Maybe that's what he needs!? :? 

Going out now in the nice little diesel Ka, 60+mpg. Oh, and it's chucking it down with rain for once!! :roll:


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## SPACEFLOWER

Safe joufney home auntie Sandra and uncle Norman.

Take care now

June


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## Suenliam

Sorry to read your news Uncle Norm + Auntie Sandra. Such a disappointment after waiting so long to return abroad. 

However, I know you don't need advice on how to make the most of any situation, so enjoy the remainder of your stay (not really a trip anymore is it?) and hope the weather improves. At least the Coral can be useful as accommodation even if static :roll: 

Sue


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## suedew

Suenliam said:


> .
> 
> However, I know you don't need advice on how to make the most of any situation,
> Sue


couldn't have put it better myself 

:!: Perrhaps Norm and Sandra should do a 'pusser type' book about their adventures.

Seriously, Moi?, glad to hear things are on the move (or not quite) and you are getting the chance to get out and about. Relax and enjoy.

Sue and John


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM

Sounds like you have had a real trauma but at least it seems to be on the turn. 

On the subject of cylinder head warping, when the engine has drunk all of its water it turns to the oil to keep it cool. This does not last many minutes before the engine goes tight as it runs out of lubrication. By the sound of your posts the 'mechanic' has taken the vehicle on a test run presumably after refilling it with water. If there was no sign of the water/steam escaping through any of the hoses or external pipes and water had disappeared then it is a fair assumption that the cylinder head gasket was leaking it into the combustion and out through the exhaust. It is also possible that the gasket can fracture between adjacent cylinders and a compression test would show this. In this case water will not be lost but engine will misfire. All within the ability of any qualified mechanic. I think a written report of the work/tests he has carried out is not an unreasonable request to make of him even if it is French. 
After all he will be getting paid for something so it would be nice to know what. 

Meanwhile enjoy the experience, you will spend hours on you return mulling it all over, particularly how well Caravan Club assisted with the problems.


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## Penquin

Sorry to hear of the problems that you have encountered, as your Coral decided to show you the "red light district", but pleased to hear that the Red Pennant has worked well for you.

It is good to have "the strength of the insurance company around you" comes to miind for those of us that can remember those adverts....

(British Insurance Association adverts of the 50's and 60's for those that cannot remember them!  )

Hope you and Coral are back well cared for and ready for your next trip soon....

Dave


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## busterbears

Such a lot of hassle you didn't need! but you're both safe and well and it sounds as though the caravan club are taking good care of things for you, I hope it all works out ok for you both and 'our Coral'


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## Jezport

Just noticed the thread,

What can I say, other than I know you will not let it get you down and we hope you can just get on and enjoy the rest of your trip.

Just a thought. If the van is coming back on a waggon you cant get done for being overweight with a few extra cases of vino.


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## UncleNorm

Jezport said:


> Clipped: Just a thought. If the van is coming back on a waggon you cant get done for being overweight with a few extra cases of vino.


AuntieSandra is ahead of you on that one Jezzer!! We have about 10 days to work on that!! :roll:


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## Jezport

UncleNorm said:


> Jezport said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clipped: Just a thought. If the van is coming back on a waggon you cant get done for being overweight with a few extra cases of vino.
> 
> 
> 
> AuntieSandra is ahead of you on that one Jezzer!! We have about 10 days to work on that!! :roll:
Click to expand...

Empty your water tank and fill her up


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## Invicta

So sorry to read of your change of holiday plans Uncle Norm but very pleased to read that you are making the most of the situation.

Just think this could have happened on your way to or from the Christmas Dinner here in Canterbury last December that was blighted by the snow!


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## dawnwynne

I just saw this thread too, glad you are still able to enjoy your holidays!! You will laugh about this one day!!


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## grandadbaza

Just seen the thread Norm,very sorry to hear of your problems,were down near Sarlat and have not been on line too much last couple of days, hope it all goes well for you both and you get Coral settled soon so you can have a rest while you wait for her to be brought back ,


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## UncleNorm

And guess who pulled up on our site an hour ago?
8O 8O 
And she didn't recognise Uncle Norman!!! :lol: :lol: 



Morag 


And Andrew

Of all the placces in all of the world.......

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## artona

UncleNorm said:


> And guess who pulled up on our site an hour ago?
> 8O 8O
> And she didn't recognise Uncle Norman!!! :lol: :lol:
> 
> Morag
> 
> And Andrew
> 
> Of all the placces in all of the world.......
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## UncleNorm

Hezbez of course1


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## rugbyken

couple of years ago in angouleme our peggy wouldn't start les [lesanne on here] thought it was the glow plugs , but we used the breakdown service we had paid for and got towed in by the local main dealer, took him 5 days to look at it , charged me 300 euros to renew the glow plugs and said the head was cracked a new one would cost 1000 euros and poss new engine at 3000+ euros, green flag were brill hire cars etc and back 2 weeks later on low loader,
oh cost me £150 for new head gasket!


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## locovan

UncleNorm said:


> Hezbez of course1


Unclenorm I bet your laughing all night long as Morag is a lovely funny lady.
say Hi for me and ray


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## UncleNorm

Thanks so far for the virtual support everyone. It really does work!!

We spent last night in Our Static Coral, in the company of Moraig and Andy, aka Hezbez. Plenty of wine and Drambuie passed the lips!!

Mavis, yes, I'll pass on your regards.


I'm pleased Moraig and Andy are here as I needed to borrow a longer hose to reach the water tap. Sorted now, and far easier than using a 10 litre watering can!!

It's Italian night here tonight. Last Friday was a Greek night, next Friday is BBQ night. Places reserved!!


For information, we're on a Dutch owned site, strangely, most of the visitors are Dutch!! :roll: It's called

Camping La Perle, at Fourneaux, near Aubusson, between Clermont Ferrand and Limoges. It has all the amenities and is very peaceful. It's in the CC Europe 1 handbook. At €19.50 a night, it's on the expensive side for us, but beggars can't be choosers!! 

We still have the Ford Ka loan car so it seems we have taken on the role of 'tugger'. The sun is shining, it's a blue sky with a hint of cloud, it's 26C in Our Coral and much warmer outside. I think I'll go there now. Bye....!!! :wink: 8)


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## artona

UncleNorm said:


> We still have the Ford Ka loan car so it seems we have taken on the role of 'tugger'. The sun is shining, it's a blue sky with a hint of cloud, it's 26C in Our Coral and much warmer outside. I think I'll go there now. Bye....!!! :wink: 8)


Get a Aframe fitted and tug her back.


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## JockandRita

UncleNorm said:


> Thanks so far for the virtual support everyone. It really does work!!
> 
> We spent last night in Our Static Coral, in the company of Moraig and Andy, aka Hezbez. Plenty of wine and Drambuie passed the lips!!
> 
> Mavis, yes, I'll pass on your regards.
> 
> I'm pleased Moraig and Andy are here as I needed to borrow a longer hose to reach the water tap. Sorted now, and far easier than using a 10 litre watering can!!
> 
> It's Italian night here tonight. Last Friday was a Greek night, next Friday is BBQ night. Places reserved!!
> 
> For information, we're on a Dutch owned site, strangely, most of the visitors are Dutch!! :roll: It's called
> 
> Camping La Perle, at Fourneaux, near Aubusson, between Clermont Ferrand and Limoges. It has all the amenities and is very peaceful. It's in the CC Europe 1 handbook. At €19.50 a night, it's on the expensive side for us, but beggars can't be choosers!!
> 
> We still have the Ford Ka loan car so it seems we have taken on the role of 'tugger'. The sun is shining, it's a blue sky with a hint of cloud, it's 26C in Our Coral and much warmer outside. I think I'll go there now. Bye....!!! :wink: 8)


Sounds like you are both having a cracking time............considering the circumstances.

Enjoy. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock & Rita.


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## Hezbez

Just back from Italian Night with Norm and Sandra - though Sandra doesn't like pizza so she made do with wine.

Couldn't believe it when I arrived at reception yesterday to book in and this gentleman shouted 'Bonjour' to me - 
I thought.....now that guy looks and sounds a bit like UncleNorm...but it can't be.... can it?? - It is!!!!!


As Norm said - of all the campsites in all the world.......


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## UncleNorm

*Of all the campings in all the world...*

Apart from at a couple of Brass Band Meets at Amboise, we have never met any other members of MHF in France, except for Gerald and Annie in 2006.

Then, a week ago, Sunday, 10 July, Hezbez turned up. Moraig and Andy had travelled all the way from Scotland to join us at Camping La Perle. (joking!) :roll: Wonderful!  It was a total surprise for all four of us. 8)

But, would you believe, it's happened again!!  Yesterday, Sunday, 17 July, I greeted a Dutchman outside the loos. The site is Dutch owned and popular with the Dutch. But most of them speak good English.

I was extremely surprised when the 'stranger' next to me suddenly said, "You're Norman." He then added some clues until I realised I was talking to Grandadbaza, of MHF, and his wife Reena. Just like Hezbez, they had happened upon Camping La Perle purely by accident. Any port in a storm...

What makes this story rather interesting is that AuntieSandra and I had never met Grandadbaza, even though _*we live only a mile and a half apart*_. I had previously offered to treat Grandad to a beer and that is what I was able to do, 700 miles from home. Reena had wine and Sandra and I had water because we're aquaholics!! :roll:

Isn't it a small world? :roll:


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## SilverF1

Glad your holiday is going well Norm in spite of the problems. No doubt the good company is also helping. 

Hope the eventual return goes well for you both.


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## cousinkatie

Well the house is spotless, the garden is weeded, the tomatoes are red and it's raining so England is all ready for the return of the folks! 
Of course, amongst the first things they'll do will be, mess the house up, eat the tomatoes and moan about the weather! Can't wait for them to return! :lol: 
For those in the area, the house will be open from Thursday for visitors so you can hear all about the "Adventures of the Coral!"
See you soon
Katie xx


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## UncleNorm

Cheeky madam!! :lilangel: 

It's approaching 3.00pm French time. We're just a few minutes away from leaving/abandoning Our Coral, to make our way to a hotel near Limoges airport. 

In the morning, we return the car to Europcar - aren't they doing well in the Tour de France? - and get ready for a 10.15 flight. We should arrive at LeedsBradford at 12.00, 11.00 English, and then hire another Europcar to drive the 85 miles home. It will be good to get home and see daughter Katie and our friends again.

We've had a pleasant holiday but not as we wanted it. C'est la vie!! :roll: 

Our Coral gets picked up on Thursday/Friday. I don't have a clue as to how long the repatriation will take. Let's hope that she arrives at the designated garage in the state we're leaving her! :roll: I have taken lots of photos!! :wink:


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## geraldandannie

Have a safe journey home, Norman and Sandra, and we hope you are reunited with 'Your Coral' soon.

Gerald (and Annie)


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## artona

Look forward to seeing all three of you back home. Certainly a holiday to remember


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## grandadbaza

Nice to have met you both, really dont know how you put on a brave face when your Coral is being taken out of your control,I know we would be gutted if we had to leave our Comanche with some strangers, especially after you told us about the garage guy that took it for a test drive, Have a safe journey home and hope that Coral is not far behind you
All our very best Baza and Rina


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## Rapide561

*Van*

Hi

Is it normal practice for the owner to fly home and the van stay put? Are you having repairs done in the UK Norman?

Glad you enjoed the holiday despite the circumstances.

Russell

Say hello to LBIA for me please.


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## catzontour

Hope you and "your coral" all arrive home safely after your adventures.

It was nice to meet you at Peterborough.

Catz


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## MOTORHOMER

Sorry to read of your troubles uncle Norm & auntie Sandra. Safe journey home to you both and hope theyour beloved lovely Coral is not too far behind.

Motorhomer & motorhomer2


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## suedew

Safe journey home for all 3 of you. Looking forward to hearing Norm tell us all about the adventures in his own inimitable style.

Sue n John x


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## zulurita

Safe journey back home to you both. 

Also hope the motorhome is repatriated safely as well.

Guess I would have had something to say to that mechanic that took the mh for a test drive!


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## LadyJ

Safe trip home both and don't forget you have a rally to attend at the end of August :lol: hope Coral is all put back together and mobile by then.



Jacquie


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## UncleNorm

Good evening dear friends!! And I mean that most sincerely!! :roll: Thanks for your interest and support through the last few days.

Well, Sandra and I are now sitting in our hotel room - Les Alizes Hotel, 200 yards from the runway at Limoges Airport - where it seems I have a strong internet connection, FOC. So we'll take advantage of it...

We said our farewells to Our Coral at 4.40pm local time, then bid farewell to Camping La Perle and its Dutch owners. They have looked after us well. In fact, we have promised an update for the CC Europe 1 entry which says the site was last visited in 2007! I will also add that we would happily revisit, provided we had Our Coral with us!! :roll: :lol:

We arrived here at around 7.15, having successfully negotiated Limoges during rush hour!! (smug smile) We had to fill up the loan car with diesel and that in itself was a challenge. We had seen an Intermarche with diesel at €1.32/L, but there were so many 'route barree' signs that getting there was not easy. But we done it!! 

We've been across to the airport to find where Europcar is. We had a snack in the cafe whilst there and checked out some of the Ryanair rules, especially the one that says, "If you have a problem of any sort, bugger off!"  We'll be back at departures early enough in the morning to give time for things to be sorted, in the event of. As someone on here says, "Get behind early, then you have more time to catch up!"

Right, it's getting ready for more rain. All the telly is in French, so I'm going to put Gulliver's Travels in the laptop. Bed by 11.30, alarm for 6.15am, breakfast at 7.00am, airport by 8.00, take off on the stroke of 10.15...

Until we meet again... some sunny day...   :wink: :lol:

_*fao LadyJ*_ We'll be there. And we have a few days out in Derbyshire with the grandsons before that. 

_*fao Rita *_ I know what you mean. But my language skills are not good enough. And we'd need evidence of his perceived wrong-doing. :evil:


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## jacksatlast

Me too, safe return.
Uncle Norman was an inspiration to us and helped us decide to buy our Adria Van,our first one in Novmeber. 
we too hope to enjoy our French trip starting shortly after a slight delay due to ailments. me Thyroid, him Hernia!!

Get back to it soon uncle Norman

jacks


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## locovan

*Re: Van*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> Is it normal practice for the owner to fly home and the van stay put? Are you having repairs done in the UK Norman?
> 
> Glad you enjoed the holiday despite the circumstances.
> 
> Russell
> 
> Say hello to LBIA for me please.


It could be let out temporarily as a Holiday home (Static) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Safe journey you two hope the wings dont fall of the plane :roll: 
Well you seem to have such rotten luck.
Every cloud has a silver lining and you certainly turned it around and had a good holiday.
See you soon :wink:


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## JockandRita

UncleNorm said:


> Reena had wine and Sandra and I had water because we're aquaholics!! :roll:


Oh aye, that'll be right! :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Don't worry about your Coral. She'll be fine, but as experienced victims of similar circumstances, we wouldn't bank on her being "back on the road" in time for Hatton. However, if it that is to the contrary, that will be excellent news for you both.

Good luck, and a safe journey back to North Lincs.

All the very best,

Jock & Rita.


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## me0wp00

i'm hoping with the rain we're having (torrential all day) that the flight isn't delayed, was contemplating a trip to the secondhandshop in Limoges but declined due to said rain...
Thanks for the heads up on Perle, it's not far from us and was one of the *I'll pop there with the kids one weekend sites as its on the ACSI at 11E think it is*
Fingers crossed it all goes well tomorrow and Coral gets home safe and sound. 
We've had a few vehicles repatriated from France but the first was a fairly new Escort and the brakes overheated and caught fire, it was some recall or other but the Parisian garage repatriating it asked us did we want to go shopping and fill it up with Wine :lol:


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## busterbears

Hope your trip back goes without a hitch and that you all get home safe and sound


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## teemyob

*Sad tale*

Thanks Gerald,

They are a lovely couple and we are saddened to hear of their plight.

Hope you get sorted N&S and manage to get back to france.

I think the wording should be "Fiat Ducato" rather than "Coral".

Yet another Fiat breakdown.

Best wishes to you both.

Mr & Mrs TM


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## grandadbaza

Hi , Norm and Sandra hope you are now home safe and well .in lovely warm Immingham, just looked at online weather and its 3 degrees higher in Imm than it is here in the Loire, beginning to think apart from the scenery we would be better back there


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## UncleNorm

Hi folks! Yes, we're home, safe and sound.  

Courtesy of Ryanair and the Caravan Club, we flew out of Limoges at 10.00am yesterday, fifteen minutes early. We landed at LeedsBradford at 11.30, ten minutes early, so we had gained 25 minutes. The 11.30 became 10.30. We hired another car, through the Red Pennant insurance and were home before 1.00pm. Nice to be home.  We returned the car locally.

Our Coral was due to be picked up 21/22 July for repatriation. This afternoon, Sandra took a call from the recovery driver who said he had picked up our lovely motorhome.  

At 8.20 tonight, I took another call from said driver who informed me that he had just discharged Our Coral from his low-loader at the garage of my choosing, one mile from home. :roll:  Hmm... I quickly joined the driver who was keen to show me round our MH, checking for damage of which there was none. He explained that his job sheet had collection down for 20 July, rather earlier than expected. 

Daughter Katie helped me off-load some essentials - mucky washing, medical stuff, valuables, spare clothes... Thanks love! 8) 

In an earlier conversation with the two fitters at our garage, we discussed symptoms and what had happened. I asked, "If the head gasket lets water into the oil, what colour would the oil be?"

"White, creamy, white!" came the authoratitive answer. 

I continued, "Before we left for France, I had an oil change as part of a service. If the engine is healthy, what colour should the oil be?"

"As soon as you run your engine with new oil, the oil turns black." 

Hmm... when I dipped my oil on Tuesday, before leaving the MH at the camping, the oil was distinctly BLACK!

They start looking at our MH tomorrow. So, at this point, it's a case of "Let's see what tomorrow brings." Fingers crossed. :wink:


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## teemyob

*Black*



UncleNorm said:


> Hi folks! Yes, we're home, safe and sound.
> 
> Courtesy of Ryanair and the Caravan Club, we flew out of Limoges at 10.00am yesterday, fifteen minutes early. We landed at LeedsBradford at 11.30, ten minutes early, so we had gained 25 minutes. The 11.30 became 10.30. We hired another car, through the Red Pennant insurance and were home before 1.00pm. Nice to be home.  We returned the car locally.
> 
> Our Coral was due to be picked up 21/22 July for repatriation. This afternoon, Sandra took a call from the recovery driver who said he had picked up our lovely motorhome.
> 
> At 8.20 tonight, I took another call from said driver who informed me that he had just discharged Our Coral from his low-loader at the garage of my choosing, one mile from home. :roll:  Hmm... I quickly joined the driver who was keen to show me round our MH, checking for damage of which there was none. He explained that his job sheet had collection down for 20 July, rather earlier than expected.
> 
> Daughter Katie helped me off-load some essentials - mucky washing, medical stuff, valuables, spare clothes... Thanks love! 8)
> 
> In an earlier conversation with the two fitters at our garage, we discussed symptoms and what had happened. I asked, "If the head gasket lets water into the oil, what colour would the oil be?"
> 
> "White, creamy, white!" came the authoratitive answer.
> 
> I continued, "Before we left for France, I had an oil change as part of a service. If the engine is healthy, what colour should the oil be?"
> 
> "As soon as you run your engine with new oil, the oil turns black."
> 
> Hmm... when I dipped my oil on Tuesday, before leaving the MH at the camping, the oil was distinctly BLACK!
> 
> They start looking at our MH tomorrow. So, at this point, it's a case of "Let's see what tomorrow brings." Fingers crossed. :wink:


"As soon as you run your engine with new oil, the oil turns black."

Mine doesn't !

In fact, the oil is so clean after changing, I find it hard to see the line on the dipstick.

I usually change the oil myself after 6,000 miles but this lot has been in for almost 11,000 and it is far from black.

Glad your all back safe and well.

Trev


----------



## artona

You will not always see the white creamy oil on the dip stick, the usual way is to take the oil filler cap off and look at the filler hole. Like teemy my oil does not go black straight away. I like to see old oil drained from the sump plug hole during a change, do all garages do it that way?

stew


----------



## JockandRita

UncleNorm said:


> Hi folks! Yes, we're home, safe and sound.
> 
> Courtesy of Ryanair and the Caravan Club, we flew out of Limoges at 10.00am yesterday, fifteen minutes early. We landed at LeedsBradford at 11.30, ten minutes early, so we had gained 25 minutes. The 11.30 became 10.30. We hired another car, through the Red Pennant insurance and were home before 1.00pm. Nice to be home.  We returned the car locally.
> 
> Our Coral was due to be picked up 21/22 July for repatriation. This afternoon, Sandra took a call from the recovery driver who said he had picked up our lovely motorhome.
> 
> At 8.20 tonight, I took another call from said driver who informed me that he had just discharged Our Coral from his low-loader at the garage of my choosing, one mile from home. :roll:  Hmm... I quickly joined the driver who was keen to show me round our MH, checking for damage of which there was none. He explained that his job sheet had collection down for 20 July, rather earlier than expected.
> 
> Daughter Katie helped me off-load some essentials - mucky washing, medical stuff, valuables, spare clothes... Thanks love! 8)
> 
> In an earlier conversation with the two fitters at our garage, we discussed symptoms and what had happened. I asked, "If the head gasket lets water into the oil, what colour would the oil be?"
> 
> "White, creamy, white!" came the authoratitive answer.
> 
> I continued, "Before we left for France, I had an oil change as part of a service. If the engine is healthy, what colour should the oil be?"
> 
> "As soon as you run your engine with new oil, the oil turns black."
> 
> Hmm... when I dipped my oil on Tuesday, before leaving the MH at the camping, the oil was distinctly BLACK!
> 
> They start looking at our MH tomorrow. So, at this point, it's a case of "Let's see what tomorrow brings." Fingers crossed. :wink:


Good grief Norman & Sandra,

That was a quick repatriation for your MH. Another thumbs up for the CC's Red Pennant service?

Glad to hear that everything is going according to plan, and will be even more interested to hear about the results on the "mechanical aspect".

Best regards,

Jock & Rita.


----------



## MOTORHOMER

Wow that is quick. We have always thought them expensive but worth every penny if when you need them they give such a quick service as that. 

Glad you are all home safely.

Motorhomer & motorhomer2


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## grandadbaza

Pleased to hear you have been reunited so soon ,hope they get it sorted as quick and it is not too serious


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## UncleNorm

Yesterday, Saturday, morning, I took a call from North East Truck and Van, which is where Our Coral was offloaded after recovery from France.

Permission was being sought to start work on our MH. Crack on!

Sandra and I popped in a couple of hours later to find a very sad motorhome, devoid of face and expression.  She looked really sad with no bonnet grill, radiator, pipework... 8O 

Apparently, water was added to the expansion bottle, the engine was started and sounded 'excellent', then the water spurted and 'hit the ceiling'!!  

Today should see the cylinder head being removed, ready to be sent away to Hull for pressure testing. More news when we have it. :roll:


----------



## JockandRita

UncleNorm said:


> Yesterday, Saturday, morning, I took a call from North East Truck and Van, which is where Our Coral was offloaded after recovery from France.
> 
> Permission was being sought to start work on our MH. Crack on!
> 
> Sandra and I popped in a couple of hours later to find a very sad motorhome, devoid of face and expression.  She looked really sad with no bonnet grill, radiator, pipework... 8O
> 
> Apparently, water was added to the expansion bottle, the engine was started and sounded 'excellent', then the water spurted and 'hit the ceiling'!!
> 
> Today should see the cylinder head being removed, ready to be sent away to Hull for pressure testing. More news when we have it. :roll:


Not good news I know Norman, but at least it's here, and you are able to keep your eye on progress, and hopefully end up with a result that doesn't see you getting ripped off. :thumbleft:

Good luck with the repairs.

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## UncleNorm

On Monday, the cylinder head was sent to a firm of engineers in Grimsby, not Hull, to be pressure tested.

Today, Wednesday, I had a call from North East Truck to report that the head was not cracked but slightly bent. It would need skimming and Fiat had given their blessing!!  

I'll be sending Fiat a very nice letter, and a copy of the invoice, when it's all done. I've said it before, we love Our Coral and care for her well. The on-board computer was showing fuel consumption as 31.0mpg at the time of breakdown. So I was hardly thrashing her. But it shouldn't happen to a 57 plate motorhome with only 18,931 miles recorded.  

Here's to the future!


----------



## teemyob

*Better*



UncleNorm said:


> On Monday, the cylinder head was sent to a firm of engineers in Grimsby, not Hull, to be pressure tested.
> 
> Today, Wednesday, I had a call from North East Truck to report that the head was not cracked but slightly bent. It would need skimming and Fiat had given their blessing!!
> 
> I'll be sending Fiat a very nice letter, and a copy of the invoice, when it's all done. I've said it before, we love Our Coral and care for her well. The on-board computer was showing fuel consumption as 31.0mpg at the time of breakdown. So I was hardly thrashing her. But it shouldn't happen to a 57 plate motorhome with only 18,931 miles recorded.
> 
> Here's to the future!


Hope you and the Fiat feel better very soon.

How has the head bent? Any reason, explanation offered?
Would the head not be better being replaced?

If it helps, we have a Mercedes with a dodgy steering lock failure at only 30,000 miles on a 2007 model. Still in dispute.

As for the oil. Mine was starting to go quite black it turns out. Mercedes have changed it and it is indeed black straight away.

Reason is because they don't drain it properly. They only took less than 12 of the 12.5 litres out. So as soon as they add the new oil, it gets mixed with the old sludgy stuff and turns grey-black.

I always warm the engine and drain as mush as possible. I will be doing it again myself next time around.

Good luck, hope you get sorted soon.

TM


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## artona

*Re: Better*



teemyob said:


> Reason is because they don't drain it properly. They only took less than 12 of the 12.5 litres out. So as soon as they add the new oil, it gets mixed with the old sludgy stuff and turns grey-black.
> I always warm the engine and drain as mush as possible. I will be doing
> TM


Did they suck the oil out? I said almost word for word what you have written to Norm the other day. A few years back a garage I had been using for years introduced a system where they sucked the oil out from the top rather than the tried and tested system of removing the sump plug.


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## Carl_n_Flo

Dont like the idea of sucking the oil out through the dipstick - much better to drain through the sump............that way you can check what comes out!!!!

In the past (in my Mini driving days) I frequently had all sorts of metal particles, bits of bearing, metal filings come out with the oil - it was a good way of checking on the health of the engine and sometimes gave you advanced notice of impending doom!!!!!

Hope you manage to get it all sorted and that you are back on the road as soon as possible.....

Carl


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## teemyob

*Re: Better*



artona said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reason is because they don't drain it properly. They only took less than 12 of the 12.5 litres out. So as soon as they add the new oil, it gets mixed with the old sludgy stuff and turns grey-black.
> I always warm the engine and drain as mush as possible. I will be doing
> TM
> 
> 
> 
> Did they suck the oil out? I said almost word for word what you have written to Norm the other day. A few years back a garage I had been using for years introduced a system where they sucked the oil out from the top rather than the tried and tested system of removing the sump plug.
Click to expand...

Yes, from what I can gather they did remove as usual by the suction tube ( I call it a sipstick)

They have only put 11.5 litres in and the capacity is 12.5 litres.

TM


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## Rapide561

*Fiat*

Norman and Sandra

Glad things are getting sorted. I am not techically Fiat minded at all but what sort of things could cause the issue?

Russell


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## UncleNorm

*Re: Fiat*



Rapide561 said:


> Clipped: Glad things are getting sorted. I am not techically Fiat minded at all but what sort of things could cause the issue?


Hi Russell! Interesting question! I like to know WHY and HOW so that the problem might be avoided in the future.

One suggestion that was offered involved combustion in the cooling system!! Doh... :? I presume - rightly or wrongly - that if a head gasket is able to leak water into the engine, then it's also capable of leaking diesel into the coolant. The same 'expert' suggested that the combustion might have blown off the bottom hose. This would certainly explain why the breakdown happened so quickly. If there had been a gentle leak, I presume we would have smelt the antifreeze or seen steam rising from the bonnet. But no, none of that. Just "beep, beep, beep..." and "Red light! Red light!" and " STOP ENGINE!!"

One thing that surprised me was the absence of jubilee clips holding various pipes in place. Spring clips are used instead. Is this how it is nowadays?? Is it a safety feature and just advancement in design? :roll:


----------



## JockandRita

*Re: Fiat*



UncleNorm said:


> clipped...........One thing that surprised me was the absence of jubilee clips holding various pipes in place. Spring clips are used instead. Is this how it is nowadays?? Is it a safety feature and just advancement in design? :roll:


Probably more of a "penny pinching" exercise Norman............unfortunately.

Regards,

Jock.


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## cousinkatie

Well I for one am hoping it is fixed soon so that they can bu**er off back on holiday! 
The house is a mess, the tomatoes are all eaten, the garden needs weeding and it's sunny so it's time for them to clear off so I can redo everything I did to prepare the house for their arrival! Bl**dy parents!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JockandRita

cousinkatie said:


> Well I for one am hoping it is fixed soon so that they can bu**er off back on holiday!
> The house is a mess, the tomatoes are all eaten, the garden needs weeding and it's sunny so it's time for them to clear off so I can redo everything I did to prepare the house for their arrival! Bl**dy parents!
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :lol:

Jock.


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## Hezbez

Hi Katie, sorry to hear you're lifestyle in being compromised.
Parents can be so irresponsible and thoughtless - staying at home and cramping your style!

Fingers crossed Coral gets better soon and they''ll be outta your hair :lol:


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## lalala

Oh dear what a start to the holiday!
Hope it all gets sorted soon and you can be on the road again,
lala


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## UncleNorm

Hello dear friends! I guess I need to update those that are interested in the state of Our Coral...

On Tuesday last, we picked her up from the garage where she'd been since 21 July. We had to hand over a cheque for a whopping £1,900!! We were told that the normal labour rate is £71 + VAT = £85.20 per hour but we had been charged at £45 + VAT = £54 per hour!! So the cost of the 20 hours of labour could have been over £1,700 alone!!

I think I mentioned the good news in a previous post (?) that the head was not cracked, just warped. So it was sent away for skimming. Whilst the engine was stripped down, a new cam belt was fitted, plus new tensioner, plus head gasket and various other gaskets and seals. When the invoice is examined carefully it's easy to see where the expense was. 

I've been on the road just 3 weeks short of 49 years. I've had a moped, a scooter, 2 motorbikes, well over a dozen cars and 3 motorhomes, and in all that time, with all those vehicles, this is the first time I've had a head gasket fail. I've sent a very nice letter to FiatUK, telling them what a wonderful motorhome they've helped to create and how disappointed AuntieSandra and I are at having such a premature failure at 18,931 miles. I've enclosed a copy of the invoice, registered post of course!

Having collected Our Coral on Tuesday, we were soon back on the road, grandsons on board, bound for the Carsington Water area of Derbyshire. We stayed on a CCC CS round the corner from the Knockerdown Inn. On Wednesday, we travelled up hill and down dale to visit the Crich Tramway Museum where we stayed for 6 hours. I love the place. And what a test for Our Coral. She took it all in her stride and I found myself relaxing gradually, trying hard not to think about the trauma that had happened previously. 

I've asked Fiat to explain why we had the problem, what I did wrong and how I might avoid a recurrence, and I've asked them for their thoughts. So, watch this space.


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## ramblingon

Good to hear you are getting your confidence back in your coral, all the best to you both.


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## grenwelly

I had been following the thread and was wondering how things were going. 
Good that you are back on the road


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## JockandRita

UncleNorm said:


> Hello dear friends! I guess I need to update those that are interested in the state of Our Coral...
> 
> On Tuesday last, we picked her up from the garage where she'd been since 21 July. We had to hand over a cheque for a whopping £1,900!! We were told that the normal labour rate is £71 + VAT = £85.20 per hour but we had been charged at £45 + VAT = £54 per hour!! So the cost of the 20 hours of labour could have been over £1,700 alone!!
> 
> I think I mentioned the good news in a previous post (?) that the head was not cracked, just warped. So it was sent away for skimming. Whilst the engine was stripped down, a new cam belt was fitted, plus new tensioner, plus head gasket and various other gaskets and seals. When the invoice is examined carefully it's easy to see where the expense was.
> 
> I've been on the road just 3 weeks short of 49 years. I've had a moped, a scooter, 2 motorbikes, well over a dozen cars and 3 motorhomes, and in all that time, with all those vehicles, this is the first time I've had a head gasket fail. I've sent a very nice letter to FiatUK, telling them what a wonderful motorhome they've helped to create and how disappointed AuntieSandra and I are at having such a premature failure at 18,931 miles. I've enclosed a copy of the invoice, registered post of course!
> 
> Having collected Our Coral on Tuesday, we were soon back on the road, grandsons on board, bound for the Carsington Water area of Derbyshire. We stayed on a CCC CS round the corner from the Knockerdown Inn. On Wednesday, we travelled up hill and down dale to visit the Crich Tramway Museum where we stayed for 6 hours. I love the place. And what a test for Our Coral. She took it all in her stride and I found myself relaxing gradually, trying hard not to think about the trauma that had happened previously.
> 
> I've asked Fiat to explain why we had the problem, what I did wrong and how I might avoid a recurrence, and I've asked them for their thoughts. So, watch this space.


Great news Norman & Sandra.

After the first replacement engine snapped it's cambelt, (insurance scam), we were very sceptical when another (pucka) engine was fitted after the intercooler hose blew off on our first outing, causing a bit of a boom. A jubillee clip hadn't been tightened. :roll: 
That was about 30,000 Km ago, and those memories are distant now.

We hope that Fiat will be considerate towards you.................but very much doubt it.

Enjoy your return to freedom. :thumbleft:

Best wishes,

Jock & Rita.


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## geraldandannie

Hurray! Coral is back chewing up the miles!

Glad to hear you're out and about again. And good luck (you'll need it, I think) with Fiat. Even if there is no recompense, it would be nice to know what went wrong.

Unlike you, I've had a couple of Hillman Imps in my time, so new head gaskets were a regular occurrence :roll:

I hope the nasty memories soon fade - although, knowing your memory, Norman, they'll still be there for many years to come :wink:

Hope to see you again sometime ...  

Gerald


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## jud

UncleNorm said:


> Hello dear friends! I guess I need to update those that are interested in the state of Our Coral...
> 
> On Tuesday last, we picked her up from the garage where she'd been since 21 July. We had to hand over a cheque for a whopping £1,900!! We were told that the normal labour rate is £71 + VAT = £85.20 per hour but we had been charged at £45 + VAT = £54 per hour!! So the cost of the 20 hours of labour could have been over £1,700 alone!!
> 
> I think I mentioned the good news in a previous post (?) that the head was not cracked, just warped. So it was sent away for skimming. Whilst the engine was stripped down, a new cam belt was fitted, plus new tensioner, plus head gasket and various other gaskets and seals. When the invoice is examined carefully it's easy to see where the expense was.
> 
> I've been on the road just 3 weeks short of 49 years. I've had a moped, a scooter, 2 motorbikes, well over a dozen cars and 3 motorhomes, and in all that time, with all those vehicles, this is the first time I've had a head gasket fail. I've sent a very nice letter to FiatUK, telling them what a wonderful motorhome they've helped to create and how disappointed AuntieSandra and I are at having such a premature failure at 18,931 miles. I've enclosed a copy of the invoice, registered post of course!
> 
> Having collected Our Coral on Tuesday, we were soon back on the road, grandsons on board, bound for the Carsington Water area of Derbyshire. We stayed on a CCC CS round the corner from the Knockerdown Inn. On Wednesday, we travelled up hill and down dale to visit the Crich Tramway Museum where we stayed for 6 hours. I love the place. And what a test for Our Coral. She took it all in her stride and I found myself relaxing gradually, trying hard not to think about the trauma that had happened previously.
> 
> I've asked Fiat to explain why we had the problem, what I did wrong and how I might avoid a recurrence, and I've asked them for their thoughts. So, watch this space.


 hi glad to here you are back on the road i bet fiat come back with a truck load of verbal diarrhea they have had there money so not interested .jud


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## Jezport

UncleNorm said:


> Hello dear friends! I guess I need to update those that are interested in the state of Our Coral...
> 
> On Tuesday last, we picked her up from the garage where she'd been since 21 July. We had to hand over a cheque for a whopping £1,900!! We were told that the normal labour rate is £71 + VAT = £85.20 per hour but we had been charged at £45 + VAT = £54 per hour!! So the cost of the 20 hours of labour could have been over £1,700 alone!!
> 
> I think I mentioned the good news in a previous post (?) that the head was not cracked, just warped. So it was sent away for skimming. Whilst the engine was stripped down, a new cam belt was fitted, plus new tensioner, plus head gasket and various other gaskets and seals. When the invoice is examined carefully it's easy to see where the expense was.
> 
> I've been on the road just 3 weeks short of 49 years. I've had a moped, a scooter, 2 motorbikes, well over a dozen cars and 3 motorhomes, and in all that time, with all those vehicles, this is the first time I've had a head gasket fail. I've sent a very nice letter to FiatUK, telling them what a wonderful motorhome they've helped to create and how disappointed AuntieSandra and I are at having such a premature failure at 18,931 miles. I've enclosed a copy of the invoice, registered post of course!
> 
> Having collected Our Coral on Tuesday, we were soon back on the road, grandsons on board, bound for the Carsington Water area of Derbyshire. We stayed on a CCC CS round the corner from the Knockerdown Inn. On Wednesday, we travelled up hill and down dale to visit the Crich Tramway Museum where we stayed for 6 hours. I love the place. And what a test for Our Coral. She took it all in her stride and I found myself relaxing gradually, trying hard not to think about the trauma that had happened previously.
> 
> I've asked Fiat to explain why we had the problem, what I did wrong and how I might avoid a recurrence, and I've asked them for their thoughts. So, watch this space.


I know its a bitch to pay that kind of money but it could have been worse, that's what you need to tell your self. I have just had a similar size bill also and am still reeling from it. But in the grand scale of things its only money. So do what I am doing and get out in the van and get some value out of it.


----------



## bognormike

good to see you're back on the road, Norm. 8) Maybe see you across the water next month?


----------



## MEES

Maybe Fiat will be helpfu.

Our 06 Renault Clieo £47'000 miles regularly serviced (at great cost0 by our local renaul dealer recently had a wheel bearing collapse and the wheel fall off on the M5.
AA recovery had never seen anything like it 8O No warning noise 8O and only recently serviced and MOT'd.

We paid the large bill and were subsequently contacted by Renault customer service to ask if we were satisfied. :lol: 

Graham expressed our 'disappointment' and subsequently they sent us a cheque for the full amount.

Obviously there was some sort of fault and we could have been killed but fair play they paid up.


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## SilverF1

Glad everything is in fine fettle again, Norm.


----------



## hippypair

Hi Norman and Sandra,
Pat and I were pleased to hear that you are back on the road.

It sounded a painful experiece in the wallet,hopefully Fiat will help out.

Hope you are both well,
Regards "old man" Terry. :lol:


----------



## suedew

Norm and Sandra, delighted that you and Coral are back on the road again. Your pockets may have taken a pounding, but not your spirits.
Hope to see you out and about on the road soon, if you are near Itay that is  
Am sure, too, that Cousin Katie will be pleased that her style is no longer being cramped :lol: 

Sue and John


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## pomme1

My 3 litre X250 had a slight weep from the bottom hose and the technician at my local Fiat commercial dealer replaced the cheap and nasty 'one shot' clips with proper Jubilee clips without my having to ask.

Incidentally, the coolant fluid is pink, but the water leaking from the hose was green! This led both me and the technician to suspect that it was aircon fluid dripping from elsewhere. However, there were no aircon pipes in the vicinity and further investigation proved that it was definitely coolant and replacing the clips has completely cured the problem. We could only conclude that the coolant has some additive which turns it green when exposed to the atmosphere to aid leak detection.

If anyone has another plausible theory, however,...............


----------



## bazzeruk

Wishing them all the best


----------



## Hezbez

Thanks for the update Norm.
Pleased to hear Coral's all better.

Yes, the bill is a bit painful, but she fixed now. Just put it behind you (as I know you both will) and get back out there enjoying her!

It will be interesting to hear what Fiat's repsonse is.


----------



## zulurita

So pleased to read the mh is fixed and all seems well and you are out and about enjoying yourselves.

Lets hope Fiat respond and do the decent thing. This just shouldn't happen with a vehicle having only done 18,000+ miles.

I must remember to ask Chelston to check our pipes on the next service in Oct.


----------



## rowley

Glad that you are back on the road. Trust that you will both be able to make up for your lost time. Take care.


----------



## jud

MEES said:


> Maybe Fiat will be helpfu.
> 
> Our 06 Renault Clieo £47'000 miles regularly serviced (at great cost0 by our local renaul dealer recently had a wheel bearing collapse and the wheel fall off on the M5.
> AA recovery had never seen anything like it 8O No warning noise 8O and only recently serviced and MOT'd.
> 
> We paid the large bill and were subsequently contacted by Renault customer service to ask if we were satisfied. :lol:
> 
> Graham expressed our 'disappointment' and subsequently they sent us a cheque for the full amount.
> 
> Obviously there was some sort of fault and we could have been killed but fair play they paid up.


 hi mees.( maybe fiat will be helpful ) i don't think so just ask the owners of the 160 bhp fiat judder problem they fixed the 120's but put 2 fingers up to them just read the post on judder gate .jud


----------



## UncleNorm

And the man from Delmonte, he say, "NO!"

Just had a call from David of Fiat. He apologises but there's nothing that can be done about our repair bill. :evil: Hmmm....


----------



## rayc

UncleNorm said:


> And the man from Delmonte, he say, "NO!"
> 
> Just had a call from David of Fiat. He apologises but there's nothing that can be done about our repair bill. :evil: Hmmm....


Not too much of a surprise there then.


----------



## JockandRita

rayc said:


> Not too much of a surprise there then.


Nope............unfortunately.

Regards,

Jock.


----------

