# How to keep dog safe in MH whilst travelling



## adw

Hi all,

We have just purchased our first motorhome and are looking forward to our travels immensely. Our MH has only two forward facing seats and a rear lounge without seatbelts. 

We are also servants to a collie springer cross - highly active and intelligent. 

Can anyone offer any advice on the best way to keep a dog safe whilst we are on the move?

many thanks,
Angie


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## Rapide561

*Dog*

Hi

My dog used to wear one of these

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--Clix-Car-Safety-Harness--carsafeharness---dogs

It clicks into the seat belt.

Russell


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## adw

hi Russell,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry, didn't make myself clear - there's no spare seatbelt for the dog - only two seats and two seatbelts for the humans!

regards,
Angela


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## jimmyd0g

We let our dog have an unrestrained journey. I would hate to tie him by his lead to one of the internal supports (in the event of an emergency stop he might choke himself or worse). There are risks with having the dog unrestrained. However:-
1) Whichever of us is in the passenger seat ensures that the dog does not distract the driver.
2) In less than 12 months (we picked up our mh in January this year) the dog has become so used to the mh that he usually does no more than sitting or lying on one of the lounge seats watching the traffic go by.

No doubt some experienced motorhomers on here will tell us that our method is all wrong. However, it works for us &, more importantly, the dog.


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## mexx

I do this with my collie in the car, but my vet warned me that in case of accident, it's increasingly common for insurance companies to refuse to pay out, claiming that an unsecured dog caused the collision. 

It's almost impossible to disprove (even though all dog lovers know damn well the dog didn't cause the accident)


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## richardjames

We have two dogs and we use a folding cage (the type used for shows) which is lodged against a bulkhead and strapped down
The picture shows three dogs one has since died but at least I know that they are safe


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## wakk44

I won't tell you it's wrong Jimmy because that's exactly what we do  

Both hounds curl up on the L shape lounge seats in the back ocassionally peering through the windows to bark at some animal or other outside when the truck stops :roll: .

Works well for us and they are company for each other in the back,when we just had the one dog Ky felt a bit lonely and would try and get close to us in the cab area but he seems to like it in the back now with his new best friend .

Meg is nursing him back to health after he had his toe amputated last week


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## javea

How about bolting an eye into the floor and attaching this to a body harness on the dog. This could give room for movement but not cause injury in the event of an accident as the harness would act to prevent that happening


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## erneboy

Our two, a labrador and a breton spaniel lie on top of one another at the passengers feet. They sleep all the time when we driving, just an occasional change of position, Alan.


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## KeithChesterfield

Any dog in any type of vehicle must be restrained in one way or another for their safety and yours.
An emergency stop and you've got about 20 kilos of flying animal heading your way.
One problem with cages is they seem to take up a lot of room.
We used a horse lead, about six foot long, and tethered him to the grab handle by the middle door.
He had room to move around and settled down on the seats or the floor.


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## richardjames

The cage I use folds flat and lives under the van when not in use so no room used


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## erneboy

KeithChesterfield said:


> Any dog in any type of vehicle must be restrained in one way or another for their safety and yours.


Is this some UK law we don't know about? Alan.


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## jimmyd0g

Those of you who have your dogs travelling in some sort of cage could you please tell me what you would do in the event of an emergency evacuation of your van? Would you waste time going 'out back' in your van and (under panic conditions) try & undo the cage to get the dog(s) out? Or are the dogs considered to be secondary to your own safety & left to perish? At least by having our Jimmy loose in the van, if we do have an emergency evacuation from which we can escape he also has a reasonable chance of escape.


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## JLO

Hi

we travel with a large labrador, we only have two forward facing seats with seatbelts. Hubby went to scrap yard and got a seat belt receptacle from a transit van which he bolted down to the back of the passenger seat and we strap the dog into a harness and into this seat belt stalk, the dog lays between the two seats when travelling, he can stand up and lay down and move round but not too much.

Hope this helps.

Jacqui


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## KeithChesterfield

Any dog in any type of vehicle must be restrained in one way or another for their safety and yours.

Is this some UK law we don't know about? Alan.

www.direct.gov.uk/ --- Highway Code Rule 57 - Dogs and Travelling in Cars.


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## sweetie

jimmyd0g said:


> Those of you who have your dogs travelling in some sort of cage could you please tell me what you would do in the event of an emergency evacuation of your van? Would you waste time going 'out back' in your van and (under panic conditions) try & undo the cage to get the dog(s) out? Or are the dogs considered to be secondary to your own safety & left to perish? At least by having our Jimmy loose in the van, if we do have an emergency evacuation from which we can escape he also has a reasonable chance of escape.


So in the event of an accident and your dog was to escape you would not mind if he caused another accident or was injured.

Harness secured with a seatbelt is the safest way, for you and the dog. or cage as long as it is secured.

Steve


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## GerryD

You could always get rid of dog. That way no problem with travelling and no more dog crap anywhere.
Gerry


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## peribro

KeithChesterfield said:


> Any dog in any type of vehicle must be restrained in one way or another for their safety and yours.


Don't agree - it all depends upon where the dog position itself. In the car, our dog lies on the floor behind one of the front seats and in the motorhome he lies (in his bed) under the sideways facing seat against the bulkhead behind the driver's seat. In the event of a shunt from either the back or the front, he isn't going to be propelled anywhere. In fact we have a full seatbelt dog harness which we rarely use but I think he is as safe where he lies as he would be on one of the passenger seats in his harness.


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## HeatherChloe

I've got the Clix Car Harness for Chloe. 

It's ideal when she's sitting on the passenger seat, as I don't like her to stand up and lean on the dashboard, as she will fall and hurt herself if I brake suddenly. 

But there are a few problems with it. The first one is that it requires one of the seat belts to be used for the dog. That's okay when I'm by myself, but with 3 passengers, I have no spare seatbelt for the dog. It would mean that I can only carry 2 passengers. 

The other problem is that the strap is not adjustable in length. Sometimes during the journey she wants to go and lie on the bed under the table. She jumps down from the seat, and then I have to unplug the harness so that she can reach her bed. This is rather annoying.


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## erneboy

So it's not a law, it's a guideline and the expression "suitably restrained" is open to interpretation. I am happy that my two are suitably restrained by the bulkhead and my wife keeping them at her feet, Alan.


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## jimmyd0g

sweetie said:


> jimmyd0g said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those of you who have your dogs travelling in some sort of cage could you please tell me what you would do in the event of an emergency evacuation of your van? Would you waste time going 'out back' in your van and (under panic conditions) try & undo the cage to get the dog(s) out? Or are the dogs considered to be secondary to your own safety & left to perish? At least by having our Jimmy loose in the van, if we do have an emergency evacuation from which we can escape he also has a reasonable chance of escape.
> 
> 
> 
> So in the event of an accident and your dog was to escape you would not mind if he caused another accident or was injured.
> 
> Harness secured with a seatbelt is the safest way, for you and the dog. or cage as long as it is secured.
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...

Interesting side-step of the question I posed (mind you I'm doing the same to your question  ) but are you telling me that, in the circumstances I described, you are prepared to let your dogs perish because they are harnessed in or caged?


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## Jented

Hi.
If your dog is really clever,teach it to drive,problem solved,lol lol lol. However,we have a Border Collie who travels on one side seat or the other,so in the event of a shunt she will not get to us,or on the floor between the seats. I think that cages,harnesses,leads fastened to doors are super ideas,but it is not for us,in the event of the unit just coming to an instant halt,the cage would act as a chipper,the harness would stop the part of the dog it was attached to,the rest would keep traveling,and the lead could cause whiplash,to my way of thinking. If the unit tries to do a victory role,you may well find a flying dog/dogs are the least of your worries,as cans of food,various bottles,chairs,and things you last saw 2 years ago,suddenly fight each other to be the first to touch you. Whatever rocks your boat.
Gearjammer.
Ps. Have i read one post wrong?, did some one suggest bolting a dogs eye to the floor?

Pps. I am a silly billy lol.


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## erneboy

To be clear, the Highway Code is not law although it contains many points of law, http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A685235

Alan.

Edit: There is no UK law on the topic, http://www.petcare.org.uk/index.php?Itemid=194&id=154&option=com_content&task=view


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## sweetie

jimmyd0g said:


> sweetie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyd0g said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those of you who have your dogs travelling in some sort of cage could you please tell me what you would do in the event of an emergency evacuation of your van? Would you waste time going 'out back' in your van and (under panic conditions) try & undo the cage to get the dog(s) out? Or are the dogs considered to be secondary to your own safety & left to perish? At least by having our Jimmy loose in the van, if we do have an emergency evacuation from which we can escape he also has a reasonable chance of escape.
> 
> 
> 
> So in the event of an accident and your dog was to escape you would not mind if he caused another accident or was injured.
> 
> Harness secured with a seatbelt is the safest way, for you and the dog. or cage as long as it is secured.
> 
> Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting side-step of the question I posed (mind you I'm doing the same to your question  ) but are you telling me that, in the circumstances I described, you are prepared to let your dogs perish because they are harnessed in or caged?
Click to expand...

How many accidents involve fire compared to other accidents.

A friend of ours had a german shepherd loose in the back of a vw caravanette fortunately it was stationery at the time and the dog took a dislike to a passerby. Guess what it took the whole side window out! could not have done if it had been restrained.

So would you leave a child unrestrained for the same reason

Every one has own ideas. But it is your choice..

Steve


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## erneboy

If I had a huge, badly behaved dog I would train it to behave. If your friend is not intending to train his dog then he probably should restrain it appropriately, Alan.


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## sweetie

Alan 
the dog in this case was protecting it's home as the vehicle was parked as most dogs do!. But if had been restrained would not have happened.

Steve


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## erneboy

Sorry Steve, if one of my dogs was hurling it's self against the window in an effort to get at a passer by I would consider that bad behavior and would give the dog additional training to correct it. 

As I said if your friend is not going to train his dog to behave properly he might want to restrain it, Alan.


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## peribro

The OP said "Can anyone offer any advice on the best way to keep a dog safe whilst we are on the move". She also said that her dog is "highly active and intelligent". I don't think she was saying that it is some sort of man eater that hurls itself through windows in order to attack passers-by. She is after advice about what to so when on the move.


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## sweetie

peribro. Sorry I stepped out of line  I thought I was making a point about restraining dogs for there own safety is needed :!: :!: 

Alan 
was not a case of badly trained dogs just protecting the vehicle which was unocupied. And yes they should have been restrained.

I also had the brother to this particular dog and he was the softest thing you could come across. My companion for 14years and still missed.

Steve


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## Pyranha

*Dogs in vehicles*

I was discussing this with friends recently, and understand that the Fire Brigade will autimatically kill an unrestrained dog if they are needed sort out RTAs - this is because the dog is unpredictable and could cause injury to the rescuers, or cause another accident by running away.

The question of whether you would spend time releasing your dog from its restraint is similar to suggesting you shouldn't restrain a small child either, who may not be able to undo a seatbelt!


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## erneboy

Yes Steve, I know how hard it is to loose a pet and I sympathise.

I still find the behaviour your describe to be unacceptable. It shows that the dog is badly socilaised and does not know it's place in the pack. From the point of view of the dog, as a domestic pet, all humans should be regarded as above them in the pack and therefore never subject to attack or the threat of attack. 

In specialist applications some dogs are trained to attack in a controlled way but only at a signal from their handler, pack leader.

I can, of course see that such a dog as you describe would need restraining when travelling and at other times, but I suggest it also needs to be properly trained before it attacks someone with potentially disastrous consequences for both the dog and the owner. Recently we have seen numerous very nasty examples of how dogs who do not know their position in the pack can behave. Childern have been killed or badly injured by such dogs.

I would therefore agree that if people cannot control their dogs they must restrain them.

There is plenty of information on how to recognise and address such problems on the internet, Alan.


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## thieawin

Here we go again. Nothing can inflame posters here more than dogs and leads and restraints, A frames apart.

Lets get real.

Dogs are domesticated wolves, even the quietest can be unpredictable and a danger. When out and there is any chance of contact with other humans or animals they should be on a lead. It has nothing to do with training, except of the owners.

Where I live there is strict liability for dog caused injuries, ie none of the English every dog is allowed its day one bite nonsense

Moving on to cars and the OP's question. If you care for your dog and its safety and your safety and the safety of third parties you will secure your dog.

If it is loose it can, and may, move and distract, may get under your feet just as you need to brake etc. saying it never has before,or it wouldn't, is no defence to a driving charge, a damages claim or an answer to the safety of yourself and others.

If it is loose and you have to do an emergency stop it may end up flying through the air, breaking your neck or that of a passemger or going through the windscreen and harming somone or something ouside. Worse it could be seriouily injured or killed. Likewise with being at the feet of someone or behind a bulkhead. Apart from the fact you cannot be absolutely certain they will stay put, it will be thrown around and injured. No doggy airbags to protect it.

Likewise in a cage, even a fixed cage, it will be thrown about. So in a cage it should be in a harness.

The only safe way for you, the dog and everyone else is to have a dog harness properly secured.

As for those who then say "ah but we won't be able to get the dog out and it will die" get real. How remote is that compared with the other risks. What difference is it to young children and babies in child seats, buckled in. You are just kidding yourself.

Those rules are for the safety of the child, the driver and others. we accept them without demur. Dogs are no different. To not secure the dog shows a disregard for its safety and yours and is not the action of a true anumal lover, but of someone who is prepared to see their dog maimed and injured or worse and to put their own saftey at risk as well.


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## Sprinta

both of mine, Border Collie and Choccy Lab lie down on the settee watching the traffic and scenery, alternating between sleeps of course.

Or they'll lie down under the table in the dinette area


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## greenasthegrass

Well said - gotta be realistic - my two are terrible if left to wander would never consider that as if we were in a collision they would be like huge bombs flying past.

They travel in the shower room on a big cushion they can stand up move around, sit in shower base - which I think one does and they have a water bowl in shower tray. They only start to witter when they have had enough which they witter the same in a car so we then know its time to stop.

We would never consider taking them abroad as one is not a very good traveller.

We have tried the harnesses but with being two they get tangled up and want to sit on my knee (I drive) all the time - so in their room they go - they know its theirs and off the go.

oooh that's a bit harsh saying dogs are killed if they are in a RTA if they are unrestrained am sure any police/fireman would rather not do that and would be last resort - I've never heard that before where's Mangothemadmonk or Jock(andRita) when you need them.

Greenie


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## KeithChesterfield

One of the Motorhome Facts members reports on a forum thread this year that they were fined €90 by Spanish police for having a dog loose in their vehicle.

And if that doesn't bother you have a look at the RoSPA website that states in a 30 mph accident a Border Collie, approx 22.5 kilos, will travel forward with a force equivalent to nine 12 stone men.
Sounds a bit over the top (excuse the pun!) but they certainly encourage people to use some sort of animal restraint when travelling.

Also Insurance companies are likely not to pay out if animals are the cause of accidents.


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## erneboy

I am happy with our arrangements and am not breaking any laws, Alan.


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## camper69

We were driving along a motorway in France this August when I realised that there was car upside down on the opposite carriageway. I had not seen the accident occur but what attrached my attention to it was the fact that two medium sized dogs were just escaping from the rear windows. 

Upon seeing this my first thought was "I hope they do not jump over the barrier onto our side of the carriage way" as if they did there would in all probabilty be a collision between vehicles around us as they tried to avoid the dogs. Thankfully they did not but I do not know if it caused any further problems.

Derek


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## Jented

Hi.
I can see the "Free and restrained arguments",but, our daughter was on route to Portugal with a trailer on tow,the car was struck from behind with such force,it pushed the tow bar of the trailer up into the back of the car,(I have photo's),her two puppies escaped injury by being "Popped clear",in the concertinering of the boot and rear seats,had they been restrained,i am sure they would both have been killed,so,for and against.
As regards the fire service killing lose dogs at an RTA, in todays sue everybody/thing,i find it hard to believe. You often hear of police/firefighters/Rspca and more,coaxing animals away from injured/dead people who they are instictivly trying to protect, so this does seem to be their first choice of action.
Our daughters dogs are ok,and are now the size of small donkeys,Alsatian/Poodle X's,happily living in Portugal.
Ted.


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## JohnGun

strap them onto the bike rack with a hat and a pair of biggles goggles.


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## HeatherChloe

thieawin said:


> Dogs are domesticated wolves, even the quietest can be unpredictable and a danger. When out and there is any chance of contact with other humans or animals they should be on a lead. It has nothing to do with training, except of the owners.


Sorry, but that's just wrong.

My dog is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel.

I have never seen any aggression in a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and in fact my breed book says that aggression is unheard of in the breed.

It also says (and this is absolutely true) that Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are so friendly and loving to all human beings, especially children, that there is absolutely no chance that they could ever be a guard dog of any kind.

There is nothing at all unpredictable about my dog and my dog is no danger to anyone.

My dog goes to the park and runs off the lead in the park, as permitted, and as do her pals. She runs after a ball that I throw and has a lovely time. The idea that if there is a human in the park the dog must be on the lead is just ridiculous.

I totally agree that some dogs are aggressive and I totally agree that some owners don't train them properly - but the idea that ALL dogs are this way is just plain wrong.

Anyway, what about guide dogs and assistance dogs? You think that they are unpredictable and dangerous? Nonsense.


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## peribro

thieawin said:


> Dogs are domesticated wolves, even the quietest can be unpredictable and a danger. When out and there is any chance of contact with other humans or animals they should be on a lead.
> Where I live there is strict liability for dog caused injuries, ie none of the English every dog is allowed its day one bite nonsense


The Isle of Man is certainly not famed for its tolerance so I am not surprised by that attitude to dogs. However far more people are injured by their fellow humans than they are by dogs so I would think that attention should be better focussed on yobs getting slaughtered every Friday and Saturday night, drink drivers etc etc rather than dogs out with their owners for a walk.


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## patp

The dog "dominance" theory was first put forward by a man called John Fisher. He continued, however, to research the subject and retracted the theory before he died. He also issued an apology to all the dogs he had subjected to his theory.

Dogs may have a pecking order amongst themselves but it is not transferred across the species to man.

We have lived in harmony with dogs for thousands of years and the sooner people give up believing this out of date theory the better.

Back to topic  
I restrain my dog in a harness on the forward facing dinette. If I did not have a free seat belt I would install one. We were once in an accident with a dog in our car. In all the confusion she escaped and was so terrified she legged it. Just one more worry you do not need at such a time. (she did come back  )


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## jonse

*Dog restraint*

I bought a lap belt from the scrap yard including the bolts then drilled a hole in each seat base and secured the belt anchorage to these see picks, we also use with the harness, I also made a seat that fits between our seats the belt stops him going forward but also lets him get down but only to the rear but he is only a small dog so it works


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## iconnor

We have a fold up canvas travel kennel with tubular steel frame.
The dog goes in there when we are on the move and the kennel is attached to the van on the swivel table leg. She's fine and just sleeps all the time.
When we arrive at destination we just fold the kennel up and put it in the garage under the bed, you could just as easily store it under the motorhome if no garage/locker space.


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## Lesleykh

Charlie is a springer collie cross and he travels with a harness made of seat belt material which has a vertical strap on the front of his chest, a strap round under his legs and one over his shoulders. He does now sit on a seat which has a seat belt post, but we attach the harness to this via a 1m mountaineering strength rope.

He can't quite get to us, which is good, though we can stroke and reassure him. If we were to break suddenly (though nothing seems that sudden in such a big vehicle) he wouldn't kill us or himself. He might be bruised, but no more than we would be with our belts. You can see pics of him on the blog below.

Lesley


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## thieawin

peribro said:


> thieawin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are domesticated wolves, even the quietest can be unpredictable and a danger. When out and there is any chance of contact with other humans or animals they should be on a lead.
> Where I live there is strict liability for dog caused injuries, ie none of the English every dog is allowed its day one bite nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> The Isle of Man is certainly not famed for its tolerance so I am not surprised by that attitude to dogs. However far more people are injured by their fellow humans than they are by dogs so I would think that attention should be better focussed on yobs getting slaughtered every Friday and Saturday night, drink drivers etc etc rather than dogs out with their owners for a walk.
Click to expand...

that is the problem with believing what you read in the papers. The IOM is a tolerant, forward looking country. It has the oldest continuous parliament in the western world, women could own property, even whilst married from about 1700, they got the vote before New Zealand or any where else, we have now extended the franchise to 16's.

We do not have capital or corporal punsidhment, we have all the usual anti discrimination, equality and human rights legislation and a gender neutral Sex Offences Act, way ahead of the UK.

As for dogs, why should a dog be allowed even one bite, especially in what was an agrarian society, when our law on dogs was formulated. It has advantages, it means that dog attacks are covered under your household public liability policy, and also that if you or your pet or property are injured by a first bite dog, you can claim compensation, which in England you can't


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## Zebedee

thieawin said:


> The IOM is a tolerant, forward looking country.





thieawin said:


> . . . what was an agrarian society, when our law on dogs was formulated.


Hmmmm - bit of a conflict here I think, eh! :wink: 

Dave


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## HeatherChloe

thieawin said:


> The IOM is a tolerant, forward looking country. It has the oldest continuous parliament in the western world, women could own property, even whilst married from about 1700, they got the vote before New Zealand or any where else, we have now extended the franchise to 16's.


And only decriminalised homosexuality in 1994, 25 years later than the UK.


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## jimmyd0g

thieawin, we found the IOM attitude to dogs particularly unfriendly when we visited the island at Easter. I can live with 'no dogs' in shops - especially food shops & cafes. I can live with 'Dogs must be on a lead' when walking through areas with livestock - especially at lambing time. What we found difficult to comprehend was the complete ban on dogs in the small park behind Douglas promenade & similar in the park next to Tynwald Hill. No doubt there were similar bans elsewhere on the island. I wouldn't even have minded if there were stiff fines for dogs fouling these areas, but a complete ban? Well OTT in my opinion.


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## KeithChesterfield

"JohnGun" - strap them onto the bike rack with a hat and a pair of biggles goggles. 

Will this do?


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## Helgamobil

I understand that in come European countries (Spain has been mentioned) it is mandatory for dogs to be restrained or caged so that they cannot "interfere with the driver" while under way. 

I would agree that a decent harness clipped to an anchor point (if no seat belt buckle available), or a cage which is also fixed into position, is a good idea to stop the dog wandering about or being injured or killed by impact during an accident.


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## adw

Thanks very much to everyone who has taken the time to reply. I didn't realise that I was opening such a can of worms!!!!

Our MH is arriving home any minute now, so we will evaluate the possibilities. I favour some form of restraint. I don't think that it would be healthy for our dog or us to have a potential 23kg missile unrestrained in the rear!

many thanks to all.


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## thieawin

jimmyd0g said:


> thieawin, we found the IOM attitude to dogs particularly unfriendly when we visited the island at Easter. I can live with 'no dogs' in shops - especially food shops & cafes. I can live with 'Dogs must be on a lead' when walking through areas with livestock - especially at lambing time. What we found difficult to comprehend was the complete ban on dogs in the small park behind Douglas promenade & similar in the park next to Tynwald Hill. No doubt there were similar bans elsewhere on the island. I wouldn't even have minded if there were stiff fines for dogs fouling these areas, but a complete ban? Well OTT in my opinion.


Sorry you were disappointed. It is really difficult treading the tightrope between the rigts of humans, children and dogs.

Given the size of the Island and the amount of land, hills, parks, coast and remote beaches not used for bathing, where dogs are allowed all year round (on or off lead, with no controls) I do not see a ban on dogs on holiday beaches in summer or in two small town squares in Douglas where children play, or in formal gardens with a bandstand, or the Tynwald arboretum, where there is a large wildfowl collection, and a requirement to keep on a lead in other parks or on town beaches, is unreasonable. It gives everyone a chance.

Tourist Info at the sea terminal would have advised of dog friendly places had you asked


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## erneboy

Not many dog owners would expect a place to be so unfriendly to dogs as to necessitate asking at the point of entry where we could take them. This is not necessary anywhere else I have been on my travels so why would you expect anyone to think of doing it on the IOM, Alan.


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## thieawin

HeatherChloe said:


> thieawin said:
> 
> 
> 
> The IOM is a tolerant, forward looking country. It has the oldest continuous parliament in the western world, women could own property, even whilst married from about 1700, they got the vote before New Zealand or any where else, we have now extended the franchise to 16's.
> 
> 
> 
> And only decriminalised homosexuality in 1994, 25 years later than the UK.
Click to expand...

Not actually true. But why let truth get in way of a good poke

Homosexual behaviour between 2 men in UK was not actually decriminalised until 2003. 1967, in England only, provided very restricted exceptions and a discriminatory age of consent

Scotland 1980
Northern Ireland 1982
Jersey 1993

US nationwide 2003


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## HeatherChloe

thieawin said:


> HeatherChloe said:
> 
> 
> 
> And only decriminalised homosexuality in 1994, 25 years later than the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Not actually true. But why let truth get in way of a good poke. Homosexual behaviour between 2 men in UK was not actually decriminalised until 2003.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry, I was too generous to the Isle of Man. Not 25 years after the UK but 36 years! Even worse.



thieawin said:


> 1967, in England only, provided very restricted exceptions and a discriminatory age of consent


The restrictions were: consensual, take place in private, and be over the age of 21. The first two conditions strike me as appropriate for any kind of sexual conduct between any adults of whatever sexuality - I don't think sex in public is legal now between a man and his wife.

You could call the 21 age of consent discriminatory, but at least a 16 yr old man in England in 1967 could wait till 1972 when he was 21, but in the Isle of Man he had to wait until 2003 when he was 52!


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## thieawin

HeatherChloe said:


> thieawin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HeatherChloe said:
> 
> 
> 
> And only decriminalised homosexuality in 1994, 25 years later than the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Not actually true. But why let truth get in way of a good poke. Homosexual behaviour between 2 men in UK was not actually decriminalised until 2003.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sorry, I was too generous to the Isle of Man. Not 25 years after the UK but 36 years! Even worse.
> 
> 
> 
> thieawin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1967, in England only, provided very restricted exceptions and a discriminatory age of consent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The restrictions were: consensual, take place in private, and be over the age of 21. The first two conditions strike me as appropriate for any kind of sexual conduct between any adults of whatever sexuality - I don't think sex in public is legal now between a man and his wife.
> 
> You could call the 21 age of consent discriminatory, but at least a 16 yr old man in England in 1967 could wait till 1972 when he was 21, but in the Isle of Man he had to wait until 2003 when he was 52!
Click to expand...

Some people never give up. Law Change in IOM was 1992, no idea where 2003 came from, that seems to be you. Nothing I posted.

Countries move at different speeds. As I indicated above married women could own and sell property in IOM a hundred years before England and got the vote 50 years before.

We don't necessarily slavishly follow all English legislation, and are often in advance

As for erneboy's comment about having to ask about dog friendly places on entry, of course you don't have to, just look for signs just as you would in England. I have three dogs and reallly ther is no problem. There are thousands of acres of dog friendly, publicly owned, walks but aparently that is not enough and you must walk your dogs in formal gardens, where kids are playing etc. Seems odd.


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## erneboy

thieawin said:


> Tourist Info at the sea terminal would have advised of dog friendly places had you asked


Sorry but it was your suggestion, I was simply pointing out that it would not occur to people to ask about dog walking at the point of entry to anywhere.

I am not insisting on walking my dogs anywhere. I don't think anyone was.

I am however surprised to hear there seem to be restrictions in parks which are usually shared spaces, Alan.


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## HeatherChloe

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/pdfs/pets.pdf


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## Arrachogaidh

javea said:


> How about bolting an eye into the floor and attaching this to a body harness on the dog. This could give room for movement but not cause injury in the event of an accident as the harness would act to prevent that happening


This is what I am looking to do, however an Irish Wolfhound and a Deeerhound weigh quite a bit so it would need to be a substantial harness and very robust anchor point.

Any ideas regarding anchor point? I think I have found a suitable harness in USA.

It's for the Burstner. Garage already converted into a kennel so this is a secondary back-up if I need to keep a dog out of the kennel for some reason.


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## Kev1

Hi arrach

just posted this in another thread

We have two labs which travel in the back of our hobby.
We bought two harnesses from ALDI one for each dog. They are designed to loop onto a normal seat belt.

However our dogs travel on the floor. 
We bolted an old mini bus seat belt (the female end)close to the floor of the passenger seat frame in the rear of our camper.

Sue then sewed up the seat belt male piece onto a length of seat belt strapping she designed it to split into two strap which split into two tails one for each dog. We then used two old karabiners to fasten the tails to the dog harnesses.

The straps were designed to allow the dogs movement to get to their drink bowls but not enough movement to be thrown into us in the event of an accident

We posted pics in this section

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-124881-.html

kev


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## Arrachogaidh

Yes, I saw that post. Not sure how to go about it though.


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## patp

You might be better putting a new post on the Burstner section. Along the lines of fitting a seat belt anchor??


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