# FIRE WARNING - PLEASE READ



## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

Today, at a local North Yorkshire campsite a man has received 12% burns on his body while in a caravan in which an explosion was heard by fellow campers.

The firemen report *this was not caused by gas *but by the leisure battery in the locker being continually charged whilst the caravan was on electrical hookup. It is thought the leisure battery was under the bunk and there was a build up of hydrogen gas in the caravan. Hydrogen gas is given off whilst a battery is being charged - hence the tube which is found on the leisure battery leading the gas outside the 'vehicle' . The occupant of the caravan lit the gas hob which in turn ignited the hydrogen gas causing the explosion.

How many motorhomes have the leisure battery under either the driver's or passenger seat. Further the leisure battery is being charged whilst travelling in turn creating hydrogen gas - consider how many of you smoke whilst driving.

When I bought my present motorhome I requested the leisure battery to be moved outside into an external locker which does not connect to the interior of the motorhome. This was because of witnessing an exploding battery and the damage it did to the persons skin!!! I am now glad I did have the leisure battery moved.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

sealady said:


> The firemen report *this was not caused by gas *but by the leisure battery in the locker being continually charged whilst the caravan was on electrical hookup. It is thought the leisure battery was under the bunk and there was a build up of hydrogen gas in the caravan.


Hi,

this is a very unfortunate, but however extremely improbable event. To make it happen three conditions must be fulfilled:

1. The leisure battery's vent tube is not or not properly installed.
2. Either the battery charger is defective and does not go into trickle charge mode when the battery is full, or a (cheap) unsuitable charger having no trickle mode is used.
3. The vehicle remains unventilated for a sufficient time to allow a hydrogen buildup. Note that other than propane or butane hydrogen has lower density than air and collects under the roof resp. would vent out through a roof vent if it were open (as required when using the gas hob).

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Sealady,

This is truly a very nasty incident and certainly a timely reminder for all of us - particularly those of us who add batteries and bigger chargers.

Hydrogen is lighter than air and therefore rises which means a couple of holes in the bottom of the battery box are not enough.

It also emphasises the need to keep any designed vents, either upwards or downwards in your van unblocked ( even if there is a slight draught !!)

Anyone who does their own conversion should equally be aware that a certain amount of upward and downward ventilation is essential for their safety.

BillD


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

This is a sad story indeed. I agree with Boff (with the fear of being contradicted) and makes me think how many "campers" get into trouble because they are ignorant of the most basic things. What is common sense to one person may not be to another and as there appears to be no sort of training for leisure pursuits, this will keep on happening. This is one very good reason for websites like this one, so that people can come and ask their questions and hopefully get them answered, and possibly learn from others (as I have done) whilst trawling through different threads, such as this one.
I hope the chap makes a full recovery.
Keith


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi kands,

This is a classic for, "A little knowledge is a Dangerous thing".

The warning is often given on this site, particularly when dealing with electrics and gas, unless you are confident of your ability and knowledge leave it to the pro's.

BillD


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

If the battery was vented properly by tube no other air vents are needed.

There are a few reasons why the battery would be gassing

1. cell down causing the charger to go full tilt
2. bench charger like halfords type being used instead of proper leisure type
3. Zig type gone wrong.

Now if the battery had been vented properly with a tube to outside this accident should not have occured, the other possibility is that it wasnt a leisure type battery ordinary batteries vent via the filler caps.


Bench chargers which have a trickle mode will not be suitable for use in a van on site, the reason is that when its finished charging and dropped down to trickle, any light switched on lowers the terminal voltage causing the charger to go back to full tilt.

What I find strange about the story is this, a boiling battery stinks, surely you would be investigating the smell, before putting kettle on.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi all
A good post Sealady :idea: 

I agree and second all before and add this additional warning which I am adding not for the previous posters benefit ( they know it already) but for anyone else who may just have stumbled on this thread:

There is another time when your battery can be a bomb and that is when it is being connected/disconnected.

It seems that many of us seen to have a fascination with our leisure batteries and make frequent changes to the number and layout of the installation.

So when disconnecting your battery do make sure that is is not actually on charge at the time and that there is no current flowing...any sparking from a terminal could and has, many times I assure you, caused the hydrogen in and around the battery to explode violently sending shards of battery bits and acid flying up into your face and body. 

If the battery has a vent tube this will help prevent this happening but it would still be advisable to be aware of what can happen if you get it wrong.

A freshly bench charged battery could also explode when connected if something is switched on in the van at the time which may cause a spark at the terminal.

One other danger is when a battery has been mishandled ( maybe dropped) and then is put into use...it is possible for internal sparking to occur and this in turn can ignite the hydrogen causing an explosion.

I hope anyone who was not aware of this problem is now not too afraid of your leisure battery...it is as Boff said improbable but it does happen and will continue to happen as there is very little published about it ......when was the last time you bought a battery and were given an instruction sheet or manual? never I would guess!......most folk remain "in the dark" :roll: 

Mike

P.S. If you were on the old site I had written about it then, accompanied by a 1st hand account of an exploding battery.


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Will sticky this for a while as we don't want to lose any members :wink:


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

I can vouch for the truth of this because it happened to us.

Our previous motorhome was a Swift Royale Ensign (S***MRB) which we purchased privately.
It came fitted with an 85ah battery mounted under the driver's seat.

When we replaced it with a 110ah battery we lifted the existing battery out to find the plastic tube which ran through a hole in the floor was squashed flat and completely useless for its purpose.

Needless to say, we made sure that the new battery was fitted correctly and the tube was not squashed.
Moral. Don't assume that because it was factory fitted it will be fitted correctly.


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

3 thoughts 

1 the Hydrogen gas is lighter than air & will rise - Roof vents now have a permenant ventilation passgae - enough to allow the amount of gas being given out by chargeing with a zig type charger to escape

2 The fumes given off by a boiling battery are obnoxious and irritate the nostrils & throat - It has a peculiar smell - That (for me at least ) cannot be ignored

3 the battery should have an air vent tube installed also the battery should be in a proper box, which while not being sealed the design : and positio of the vent should cause the gas to escape down the tube to outside


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

PamNPete said:


> 3. the battery should have an air vent tube installed also the battery should be in a proper box, which while not being sealed the design : and positio of the vent should cause the gas to escape down the tube to outside


Hi

true..if everything is done right no problem... but as you rightly say Hydrogen is less dense than air and rises ...BUT the tube goes DOWN from the battery, through the floor usually to outside........see the Problem...battery is still full of hydrogen, if gassing has occured during charging....there are quite often cracks or faults in the top of a battery, hydrogen can leak out...if you are connecting/disconnecting with a load switched on and a spark occurs....boom.

I have been there...or at least my nephew has...we have the acid spattered T shirt to prove it :lol:

Mike


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*Battery Blow Out*

Hi To All

All the above points noted, and in total agreement, there is another condition that can expload a battery, if a short across the battery terminals, or the Pos + cable gets shorted in the seat runners when you move the seat over the battery, as often the fuse is not close enough to the battery,

I know of around 10 instances where batteries have exploded,

in one instance, 4 x 220 Ah gell batteries, mounted inside a stainless steel 6mm thick sealed container exploded due to a short of the battery terminal, the explosion deformed the container, and the 30 or so 6mm ss bolts holding on the lid were stripped of thread, these batteries were operating in a temp of 7* C, and could not be over charged, the heat inside the container melted most of the copper cables, Cost of above damage around £15.000.00

In another instance, battery on charge, workman grinding metal some 15 metres distance, the top blew of the battery and put a hole in the metal roof 8 metres above, with acid over steel cladding, Cost of above £10.000.00.

Last and most recent 12 volt, 85 Ah battery, crack in side of battery (unknown to operator) on removal = BANG, total cost, around £70.000.00. workman had to finish work,

Do not ever think a 12 volt battery is not dangerous, I give it the same respect as I do with 240 volt, 440 volt, ore any other voltage.

Have a nice day  Colin


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Battery Blow Out*



Cowly said:


> Last and most recent 12 volt, 85 Ah battery, crack in side of battery (unknown to operator) on removal = BANG, total cost, around £70.000.00. workman had to finish work,


and change his trousers :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good stuff Colin
Sorry I know its not funny I couldn't help myself.........

Mike


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## 88929 (May 10, 2005)

Hi there folks,

I am a retired Fire Safety Officer, and I agree these things can happen to the best of us. I have a new van and because of this post, I will be checking the safety features to my leisure battery after reading this post. This is what this site is all about, passing on the information that we sometimes forget ourselves, which other people have experienced or knowledge gained, well done. 

"Take care out there"


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

PamNPete said:


> 2 The fumes given off by a boiling battery are obnoxious and irritate the nostrils & throat - It has a peculiar smell - That (for me at least ) cannot be ignored


Hi,

you have to distinguish between "gassing" and "boiling".

"Gassing" means that the water (H2O) in the battery is split up into its components Hydrogen and Oxygen, a mixture which has the accurate name "detonating gas". A small amount of gassing always occurs during charging, that is why the vent tube is needed if the battery is installed inside the van. This is also the reason why even a properly charged, healthy battery needs a little water top-up from time to time. The fact that hydrogen has a lower density than air is no problem here even if the tube goes downwards, as (at least as long as the cell caps are properly closed) the gases are pressed out through the tube.

Strong gassing may occur if battery or charger is defective, but as neither Hydrogen nor Oxygen have any smell you will *not* smell a gassing battery! Strong gassing is sometimes mistaken for "boiling".

"Boiling" means that actually the battery heats up so much that the sulphuric acid starts to boil. Boiling can be caused by defective chargers and/or defective batteries, or by short-circuiting the battery poles. Boiling is usually also accompanied by strong gassing, and can actually raise the internal pressure so much that the battery blows up even if there is no source of ignition. As here really the sulphuric acid evaporates a boiling battery will produce a strong obnoxious smell.

So it is a good idea to check the battery installation including the vent tube from time to time. Or have it checked by someone who knows what to do.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Boff said:


> The fact that hydrogen has a lower density than air is no problem here even if the tube goes downwards, as (at least as long as the cell caps are properly closed) the gases are pressed out through the tube.
> Gerhard


Hi Boff

Good points.......just one rider on the bit about the vent tube, even when this is correctly fitted....if the battery is on charge and has been gassing normally there will be enough energy in that gas, that is in the space inside the top of the battery to blow the battery to pieces if it is ignited by a spark. A leak from the tube, a leak from a crack in the battery top, in fact any small defect in the top area of the battery can allow this to happen. ......BUT there will be no spark if there is no current flowing when you disconnect at the terminals....so please........switch everything off before you go to the battery box :wink:

Mike

P.S. hope we are not boring anyone with this.......... :roll:


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi, 

A couple of little, but not unimportant, points that have occurred to me reading this. 
Those of us that are used to dealing with electricity (and batteries are only packaged electricity) will be used to taking all sorts of precautions that may not be obvious to the amateur. 

When connecting or disconnecting a battery always disconnect the earth first, then if you accidentally touch your spanner against the metal of the vehicle you will not cause a spark. In any case take care with your spanner. 

Second point take off your watch if it has a metal strap as these can in a confined space cause a spark and severe burn of the wrist. 

This is developing into quite a list of does and don'ts - maybe it should be collated into a list ? 

BillD


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*Battery isolation*

Hi to all

HSE requires, people working with batteries must use insulated tools, this is the H&S at work act, however when not at work anything goes !!! these insulated spanners are pricy, and bulky, but a good tip is to use the correct size spanner, and tape it the total length with insulsting tape :wink:

Have a nice day 

Colin


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## captainking (Jun 16, 2005)

Hi Everyone this post takes me back to our problem last month SEE........

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-8032.html&sid=a31c4496022b29ad51e42f3c6862cbae

which gives a good account of fitting a toxic fume detector these are so simple you dont even have to use a drill just stick it to the top of one of the wall panels

Best regards

Captainking....sleeping very soundly......by the way I bought a new battery and need to sort out charger before our trip to France.


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## GypsyRose (May 9, 2005)

:roll: Can someone please tell me if a SEALED battery will be safer? We have recently had a smell of gas and we suspect our power is not as good as it was (our 4 x 110 v batteries are about 4 yrs old now and had a lot of use) . We planned to buy just one sealed battery , a 260 (not gel) but this would halve our power and we were advised to purchase separate batteries but forgot to ask re maybe using 4 SEALED .... hope this makes sense!! Ana xx


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## 96186 (Sep 1, 2005)

Hi

Best batteries performance and cost wise are standard lead acid leisure (with vent tube)

Check the batteries out well and properly before binning them though.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

> This is developing into quite a list of does and don'ts - maybe it should be collated into a list ?


 Good point Bill, more info on the safe handling of batteries here

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg139.htm


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## JustRadio (May 21, 2005)

I had a 24v alternator go defective on me on passage from Dover to Southampton. The battery banks are under the wheelhouse floor, it was the smell that alerted us to the problem. It's acrid and not something you can ignore.

We shut everything down, though it retrospect I'm not sure that was the best thing to do since if the batteries had gone totally u s we wouldn't have been able to restart the engines. Disconnected the alternators and crept into Brighton for repairs, rebuilt alternator, expensive.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

GypsyRose said:


> :roll: Can someone please tell me if a SEALED battery will be safer?


Hi GypsyRose,

if SEALED means GEL battery then the following applies:

As long as gel batteries are properly loaded they are as safe as normal lead-acid batteries. The difference is that you do not have to top up water from time to time.

However if the charger is broken and "cooks" the battery, then pressure builds up in the same way as in a normal battery. Gel batteries have a "safety valve" which prevents them from blowing up, but as soon as this safety valve opens you have the same problem with noxious sulfphuric acid gases as with a normal battery.

So I would NOT consider them as safer.

Main advantages of gel batteries are that they do not have to be kept in upright position (may be interesting for ocean-going boats but not for motorhomes) and that they require (slightly) less attention. They are however more expensive.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## beagle (Sep 25, 2005)

Bearing everything above in mind, it sounds like you have to be a bit careful about charging leisure batteries.

Are there chargers that are especially suited to these rather than car batteries? What do you recommend? I read somewhere else on MHF that someone kept their battery on charge at home, but set a mains timer to activate it twice a week for a couple of hours. Sounds like a good (and safe) idea, is it?


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Beagle

Not just leisure batteries but any battery

3-4 stage Charger, My preference being Sterling which are also good as a power supply, you dont have to mess around using timers, it will drop to maintenance charge and monitor (timers are actually a bad and dangerous idea)

Avoid automatic chargers, trickle chargers, so called inteligent chargers (which are usually anything but)


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## aido (May 17, 2005)

*post subject*

What about solar chargers are they safe or to be avoided also. does every battery require a vent tube?...aido :?


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Aido

Solar panels are good (in the right circumstances), its the regulator that needs to be right if you have a decent size Panel


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Aido
> 
> Solar panels are good (in the right circumstances), its the regulator that needs to be right if you have a decent size Panel


I don't know if this will help others (probably not you George) but I include quite a bit on regulators/charge controllers in my articles on battery and solar systems elsewhere on this forum Click HERE

Regards Frank


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Frank

Just gave the articles a speed read and I am pretty impressed, nearly every article I have read (prior to this) contains so many glaring inaccuracies, so many that you have to wonder whethor the writer is trying to rehash things he has read about, but doesnt really understand.

There are however a few mistakes, the worst of which

"Now if you repeatedly discharge a lead acid battery until it is empty you will damage it, *so its better to plan to only take 90% of its charge.*"

On the battery sizing front, if this notional person in your example actually required 50 Ah for 2 days use the minimum battery size would be 100AH on the basis that you should never intentionally discharge below 50% of the batteries rating.

One other minor error that I can see is that you have used the shoreline refridgeration/Danfoss compressor "advertised" wattage for your notional fridge, the unrealistic figure that they quote is the average for the whole day, but you have used it as the running wattage. This is a minor point as all the usage calculations on the spreadsheet still work OK. Totally seperate issue but compressor fridges are the subject of more hyped eff than they actually possess.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Frank
> 
> There are however a few mistakes, the worst of which
> 
> ...


Quite happy to debate the discharge issue with you George but I suggest we pm or change topic as we have drifted away from this one. I only put the link in this topic to explain why a regulator is needed.

For any one else reading this I will make it clearer that the figures used in the spreadsheet are purely notional - some were guesses! The article asks you to make sure you get the real figures.

Regards Frank


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

It should be a legal requirement that on all sides of a Leisure Battery simple picture examples about what and what not to do when Installing a Leisure Battery

I have purchased a couple of Leisure batteries and there was very little if no information about correct Installation procedures.

Further, If I had not remembered at the checkout to ask for some ventilation tubes that should come with all Leisure batteries I am sure the checkout assistant would not have reminded me.

My batteries are on continues charge and are placed within the van, but I have well fitted ventilation pipes to the outside and the charge is the pulse charger type which is continually monitoring the condition of the batteries.

Don't get me wrong, if you can place them externally about 6 yard away from the van would be better but this obviously cannot be the case with a moving camper van or caravan

H


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## Ocsid (Dec 6, 2005)

My Hymer has a "Gell" battery. This battery itself has no provision for a vent tube. 
I understood that some German statute specifies that only these "Gell" batteries can be fitted in german built MHs, where fitted within the living space. I further understood that this requirement was specifically to avoid gassing related problems. I know that they have to have a special charging system; and that any battery replacement must only be with another "Gell" battery. Having noted that suppliers want £250 for a "Gell" its easy to be tempted to go for a £50 acid type, but now I will be guarded. 

Can the knowledgable enlighten us more please?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Gel batteries are intrinsically safer Not because they can't gas but because they are easier to handle, electrolyte (ie the sulphuric acid) won't just leak (for example) out if the cell is tipped on its side. The charging regime for a gel is designed not to produce much gas BUT if it goes wrong then a pressure relief valve releases the hydrogen and oxygen.

I think the effect of putting a wet lead acid battery to replace a gel type would be that it would be undercharged and also you would have to deal with venting the compartment but am quite willing to stand corrected.

The biggest disadvantage with a gel apart from cost is expected life which may be much less.

By the way I once saw the effect of a gel battery gassing with a faulty valve - it was starting to look like a rugby ball!! We all beat a hasty retreat.

I can confirm that If one is dropped from the helideck of a lighthouse to the rocks below there is little to no difference to what you might expect
if you did the same to a wet cell.

Regards Frank


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi 

Gels used to lauded as the "anyway up battery", however they now reccomend upright, because they dont like being upside down for long Plates get uncovered. does your motorhome do barrel rolls?

Gels, expensive, sloooow charging, short life.

I woud lose a gel battery at first oppurtunity, to maintain other systems replace with a VRLA or even an elecsol these have the same charging regime as the Gels. Not the best battery, but at least they are cheaper and far better than the gel and you wont need to change the charging system either


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

I'm not sure where Ocsid got his German regulation information from, but we are emigrating to Germany and taking our MH with us. It was always my intention to change my single gel battery to two elecsols and the main dealer in my new home town is very happy to do that. If "regulation" says only gel batteries he clearly/surely shouldn't do that. Every bit of "expert" comment I've seen says that elecsols hold their charge longer, last longer as batteries and charge quicker than gel. They're also not much more than half the price of gels. If I get 40% longer life into the bargain that makes them well under half price per year/life. On the face of it a no-brainer unless, as a certain TV personality used to say, "you know different".


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Phred

I believe the law was that all new vehicles (motorhomes and caravans) from a certain date had to be fitted with gels.

This would be consistant with the fact that many German caravans do not now and have had a power supply fitted for purely on-site use.


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## Ocsid (Dec 6, 2005)

The only reason I understood that the Germans have a requirement for the internal battery being a "gel" type is because the suppling dealer told me it was so. Nothing more definitive than that but observation are that other german MHs and caravans also use them, despite the cost burden. So it might even be true.


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

Hi Ocsid

Thank you and I am grateful for your response - was your dealer in Germany or UK? While my sceptical mind says that I shouldn't doubt your salesman it could just be that that was the party line? While all my caravans (8 of them and 3 bought or used in Germany) had standard lead acid leisure batteries, and I do believe that caravans were/are intrinsically less stable than MHs, law and statute do change without us always being aware.

Is there a dealer out there who can give a definitive answer to the question, which is this - are gel batteries, and only gel batteries, the only permissible battery in a new German motorhome be it Hymer, Knaus (my case), Buerstner, Dethleffs etc?

I would hate to change to elecsol and then fail my Tuv test in 3 years time because of the wrong type of leisure battery, and that makes an assumption that the testing station actually looks at that aspect as it has little or nothing to do with roadworthiness.


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## Ocsid (Dec 6, 2005)

Hi PhredC, 
It was a UK dealer, and was in the summer of 2002
I had commented on the fact that the battery had no provision for a venting tube. 
I can’t remember the actual statement; he explained it was a Gel battery so needed no tube, and this was a German requirement. I know for sure I was told it was for safety reasons specifically associated with reducing the risk of a gas explosion.
Gel batteries were something new to me prior to that, so it seamed plausible at the time.
Acid leakage etc was not mentioned.

Thanks for asking for a definitive answer from a dealer out there; I look forward to learning more but obviously your need is more pressing.
Ocsid


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> I believe the law was that all new vehicles (motorhomes and caravans) from a certain date had to be fitted with gels.


Nope, not true. No such regulation exists in Germany. You may still fit lead-acid batteries even in the habiation area, provided that you properly install venting tubes. The implication however is that the battery needs to be equipped with a nozzle for the venting tube, which basically rules out car starter batteries. And many German van builders still do use lead-acid batteries.



GeorgeTelford said:


> This would be consistant with the fact that many German caravans do not now and have had a power supply fitted for purely on-site use.


I am afraid this is only for cost-cutting reasons.  In Germany this is fully legal, provided that you put an appropriate warning message in the manual.



sallytraffic said:


> Gel batteries are intrinsically safer Not because they can't gas but because they are easier to handle, electrolyte (ie the sulphuric acid) won't just leak (for example) out if the cell is tipped on its side. The charging regime for a gel is designed not to produce much gas BUT if it goes wrong then a pressure relief valve releases the hydrogen and oxygen.


Gel batteries may have certain advantages in applications where they are likely to be rolled and tipped quite a bit when in use. E.g. on (especially sea-going) boats. But they have no advantages in motorhomes. And the fact that they don't have a venting tube nozzle but a safety valve instead could actually turn out to be in your disadvantage: Because _if they start gassing_ (because of e.g. incorrect charging regime or defective charger), then, instead of leaking it out slowly through the vent tube, they suddenly open this safety valve and blow out the gas all at once. And this mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is not without reason called *"detonating gas"!* So I would not call them safer.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

Thank you Gerhard.

That seems to be as definitive as you can get and bears out what the dealer in Germany said to me, that he was quite happy to fit two elecsols in place of the single gel in place in my van. In fact the dealer here in UK is doing that, at a price cheaper than I can find on the internet. I will then have a new (unused) 95Ah gel for sale for anyone prepared to collect it and offer a sensible price, the retail price of which is £165.

I understand from the UK dealer that one or other of Buerstner or Dethleffs still fit lead acid batteries in their MHs.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

THIS FIRE WAS NOT CAUSED BY GAS.

SINCE WHEN HAS HYDROGEN NOT BEEN A GAS?


DAVE


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## 100512 (Aug 13, 2006)

The other issue that I havent seen noted here, (forgive me if it has) is batteries installed in parallel iresepective of type without any fuse or other device for protection.

I once has a 220AH battery case crack through over heating since one battery rapidly discharged through another causing massive damage on a boat.

If batteries are installed in parallel I understand they must be of the same type and capacity and also have a fuse in the parallel link. If the fuse is in the battery compartment it should be pspark proof so if it blows does not ignite any gas that may be present. This should prevent one battery rapidly discharging through the other if a cell fails or other problem occurs. This situation could lead the a battery explosion too.

Extreemly unleasant with flying sharp parts, Acid, flame etc etc.

Can any one else think of any other worse type of potential 'bomb' to install in their living quarters ?


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> THIS FIRE WAS NOT CAUSED BY GAS.
> 
> SINCE WHEN HAS HYDROGEN NOT BEEN A GAS?
> 
> DAVE


Hi Dave

Yes I see what you mean :roll: but I think the firemen were referring to LPG.

Anyway you resurrected an old but worthy thread :lol:

Mike

P.S. I hope you do not mind me pointing out that typing in all CAPITALS is seen as SHOUTING ...daft I know but there you go :lol: click the Caps Lock off


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## 98060 (Mar 9, 2006)

*As a new kid tell me*

I have read all the above topic, now as a new member and wanting to own a van, can you give me an answe? let's say I buy a van, I get it insured, I then add 
an extra leisure battery, then I add solar panels, then I add powerclick to boost my BHP then an oven and extra interior lights, then TV ,CD player.

Have I modified my van so much, that in the case of fire or accident ,will the insurance become invalid? or am I just a ignorant newbie.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi brightdays

That's a very relevent question. 8) 

In the case of the engine modding/remapping then the answer is a definite yes - you must inform your insurer of any change in performance from the makers standard specification.

As for the other items you mention, first ensure that the accessories limit on your policy isn't exceeded - but most specialist M/H policies should cover the usual accessories unless you've something very special fitted. You do need to make sure though that all the work you have done is carried out to an acceptable standard, especially if you do it yourself. If work done by a professional causes consequential losses then you have a claim against the installer but if you do your own work you might need to prove to your insurer that you were competent to carry out the work in the event of a major claim.


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## 100547 (Aug 15, 2006)

hi all, Bertha refered to getting ventilation tubes when buying new batteries what do these look like,how do they fit on? i assumed that ventilation meant the hole in the battery box floor, is this not ventilation enough. astra


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## TheBoombas (Aug 23, 2006)

you have all got me worried now.
I have just fitted two new batteries under both front seats.
Now there was a vent tube on the old existing battery, but i could not see any outlet for vent tubes on the new "Squadren" ones so I presumed that they don't need to be vented... Is this correct? 8O


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Lead acid batteries 'gas' ie give off hydrogen, sealed ones and VRLA ones are designed not to, but ordinary lead acid leisure batteries will gas and this is a natural part of battery charging.

Hydrogen is much lighter than air so putting a hole in the floor doesn't help much. A small diameter pipe running from the otherwise sealed battery will lead the hydrogen away and under those circumstances it can be fed down and out of the van to disperse harmlessly ouside. What you want to avoid is a pocket of the gas which may reach an explosive concentration. Also note that hydrogen is a very small molecule and can penetrate porous surfaces to a great depth.

The other advantage of this vent tube is it will also carry over any extremely corrosive sulphuric acid spray getting it away from your van.

regards Frank

PS Squadron make/supply various types some of which may not need venting.


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## DandM (Nov 7, 2006)

jeeze, what a scary thread.....! (and I haven't even started on the links yet)

I bought a brand new motorhome in September, since then it has been used for approx 3 weeks in total but has been hooked up to power continuously, either at a camp site or when its parked in my drive.

I know it has a leisure battery stored underfloor, I also know there is a unit in the wardrobe which charges the thing. I didn't particularly want to know anymore about it. I certainly didn't want to have to give myself schooling in gas emissions from this battery, that battery etc. 

Now before the purists start flaming me let me add that.

a/ I do intend to gain some basic knowledge of the potential bomb I have placed under my family.

b/ I will check for leaks or smells now 

My question for now however is, should my motorhome be constantly connected to a mains supply? Am I doing potentially more harm than good if it doesn't move for a few weeks but is still on charge??


Finally, I only found this website a week or so ago and thank god I did.
The forums have an incredible amount of information and I have spent hours looking through interesting topics and posts.

So I would genuinely like to thanks the posters for taking the time to help, encourage and ok, sometimes scare the less knowledgable folks like me.

Thanks
DandM


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DandM said:


> ..........b/ I will check for leaks or smells now...........
> DandM


Hydrogen has no odour and is colurless. You might smell sulphuric acid if the battery is gassing excessively.

If you are not sure about an installation either take a lot of photos and post them here or turn up at one of our rallies or meets and someone there will I'm sure run an eye over your installation either way you'll get an opinion.

Or two or threee 

Frank


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## 102422 (Jan 11, 2007)

Thanks 

I have just checked my batteries and the vehicle battery vent hose is missing. 2.0 JTD FIAT 1k on clock. 

So thank you to one and all who mentioned this.


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