# Anybody flashed by camera,s in France



## harrison

I am settled in Spain for the winter and was flashed about 4 times traveling at about 58-60 mph on the motorway, will I have a few surprises when I get home, I have read somewhere the French and the dvla don't get on and our government don't give out our details, 

Paul


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## Stanner

I was flashed on the way to Dieppe in October last year and haven't heard anything yet. 

I have been over twice since then and haven't been pulled over at the port either.


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## teemyob

I would bet 99.99% you will not get a ticket. Even if you were in a hire car.

TM


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## alhod

Is this not set to change, I believe next year, when new mechanisms will be in place to exchange registration details across E U borders?

Alan


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## Penquin

If you were driving a hire car you are likely to hear from the hire car company who will surcharge you the fine and their "administration fee" - that happened to our daughter when she was on her honeymoon in Southern France and returned home to a large bill from the company (one of the larger international companies.......). There is no chance of appeal on that route........... they simply deduct it from your credit card although I suppose you could dispute the payment with your CC....... Thoughts of scam go through my mind at such things as you have no way of verifying their accuracy.

If you are driving your own UK registered vehicle they CAN pursue you by requesting the details from the DVLA who will supply them - in the same way that they will supply them to companies such as private parking companies that comply with the law and are registered, or eve individuals if they pay a fee of I believe £25.

But at present you are very unlikely to receive anything more than a fine of e.g. €90 since the UK Government refused to pay to allow the DVLA Database to be linked to the EU ones as our points system in the UK is the opposite of many EU ones where you LOSE points for offences rather than gain them.

I have not heard of any proposals to change this system but may well not be correct over that.

It is very difficult to fight such things as the speed limits may not be clearly understood (or displayed in a form that we recognise).

Dave


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## Snorkling1

Mmmmm does anybody have a link I could look at for speed signs, France and spain. What they look like etc? 


Cheers


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## rayc

I read in this months MMM that in France vehicles with a GVW over 3.5t, including motor homes, are limited to 50kph when the speed limit is 70kph. I knew all the other French speed limits for motorhomes over 3.5t but I didn't know that one.


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## hogan

Flashed 5 times in May not fined....yet.


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## alhod

One to remember in France is the automatic speed limit of 50 kph (appx 30mph) as you enter any village or town. The limit applies when you pass the village name sign and ends when you exit the other end and pass the sign with the name crossed through. That applies everywhere unless there is another sign for a specific limit (often 70 kph, appx 40 mph).

Alan


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## BrianJP

I have been flashed many times even when gps is showing me well under the speed limit.
In the extremely unlikely event you were pursued via our DVLA just ask for photgraphic proof and I would say that is the last you will hear.


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## rayc

alhod said:


> One to remember in France is the automatic speed limit of 50 kph (appx 30mph) as you enter any village or town. The limit applies when you pass the village name sign and ends when you exit the other end and pass the sign with the name crossed through. That applies everywhere unless there is another sign for a specific limit (often 70 kph, appx 40 mph).
> 
> Alan


I noticed a lot more 'rappel 50kph' signs approx 100m inside the town limits when there this year. There also appeared a lot more ' priority from the right' zones especially where main roads run through towns - a form of cheap traffic calming perhaps? There was talk in the forum of priority of pedestrians waiting to step on crossings being enforced but nothing appears to have happened to driver behavior on that front.


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## Snorkling1

Thanks alhod..great information for us. So much to learn before our first time abroad.

Val


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## harrison

rayc said:


> I read in this months MMM that in France vehicles with a GVW over 3.5t, including motor homes, are limited to 50kph when the speed limit is 70kph. I knew all the other French speed limits for motorhomes over 3.5t but I didn't know that one.


I was well shocked but there are lots of new sign on the motorway it shows 3.5 and a lorry then 80k we only travel about 55-58 mph bein a large Rv the fuel drops like a brick above 65, the camass we hit they nears Tours there's about 4 in a 10 mile run.

Paul


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## rayc

harrison said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read in this months MMM that in France vehicles with a GVW over 3.5t, including motor homes, are limited to 50kph when the speed limit is 70kph. I knew all the other French speed limits for motorhomes over 3.5t but I didn't know that one.
> 
> 
> 
> I was well shocked but there are lots of new sign on the motorway it shows 3.5 and a lorry then 80k we only travel about 55-58 mph bein a large Rv the fuel drops like a brick above 65, the camass we hit they nears Tours there's about 4 in a 10 mile run.
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...

There has been a lot of discussion on forums regarding the 'lorry' sign in that it only applies to 'Poids Lourd' i.e vehicles over 3.5t used for the transport of goods and does not apply to vehicles registered as motor caravans


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## TheNomad

Just to be clear on this, there is NO reciprocal agreement between the French and UK Vehicle registration authorities on routine information-swapping (except in the case investigations of very serious criminal offences...murder etc etc, and that info-swop then goes via Interpol).

And there are no plans on the UK side for that situation to change.

Thus the French Police/Judicial system cannot find out your personal details/home address etc. 

If you are flashed by a fixed-location speed camera in France, with a UK registered vehicle, nothing will happen....their computerised notification system just spits that incident out as a "can't pursue it" jobbie.

But if caught in a hand-held speed trap, where the radar operators mate is waiting 300 metres on down the road to pull you in, then you are nicked Sonny.......you have to pay the fine on the spot, there and then.


Same situation holds true all across the rest of mainland Europe for UK registered vehicles. There is no mechanism for that foreign country to identify you to chase you down back in the UK for payment.




Just for info:- there are some mainland European countries who HAVE now started doing reciprocal vehicle registration details info-swopping, (Spain and France are an example) to try to chase down the many millions of euros that they have been missing out on getting from speeding/illegally parked etc foreign registered vehicles...but these deals are inter-country-specific, and the UK has not entered into any of them.


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## Glandwr

They have been doing it for parking tickets since 2002 (money opens doors?) Why should it be different for speeding tickets? They CAN trace you through the DVLA. Question is can they enforce the fine?

Dick

edditted to add link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/2719359/Parking-in-Europe-Fine....html


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## TheNomad

Glandwr said:


> They have been doing it for parking tickets since 2002 (money opens doors?) Why should it be different for speeding tickets? They CAN trace you through the DVLA. Question is can they enforce the fine?
> 
> Dick
> 
> edditted to add link
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/2719359/Parking-in-Europe-Fine....html


No.

DVLA WERE doing it in 2002, but after public criticism the Minister told them to tighten up on control of the information.

And indeed as you mention, there's no legal mechanism in the UK for enforcement of such a minor "misdemeanor" fine picked up overseas anyway.


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## Glandwr

What's the situation with electronic tolls such as they have in Portugal? Is it purely down to personal ethics as to whether we pay or not? Presumably it will be some time after the fact that outstanding amounts are converted to an actual penalty by which time you would be long gone.

Not sure if speeding is seen as a minor "misdemeanor" Nomad in places like Norway (£1200 fine) or Finland (up to 10% of your annual income 8O)

Dick


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## Glandwr

Anyone know if foreign vehicles are chased up for LEZ infringements?

Dick


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## alhod

Only if excessive garlic is detected in the emissions from the mouth!

:lol:


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## harrison

Glandwr said:


> What's the situation with electronic tolls such as they have in Portugal? Is it purely down to personal ethics as to whether we pay or not? Presumably it will be some time after the fact that outstanding amounts are converted to an actual penalty by which time you would be long gone.
> 
> The toll is different you enter into a agreement when you join the private toll road, I always swipe my credit card at the boarder and there's nothing to worry about
> 
> Paul


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## TheNomad

Glandwr said:


> What's the situation with electronic tolls such as they have in Portugal? Is it purely down to personal ethics as to whether we pay or not? Presumably it will be some time after the fact that outstanding amounts are converted to an actual penalty by which time you would be long gone.
> 
> Not sure if speeding is seen as a minor "misdemeanor" Nomad in places like Norway (£1200 fine) or Finland (up to 10% of your annual income 8O)
> 
> Dick


I think you may have missed the point.
The point is that it's regarded as a minor misdemeanor IN THE UK. Thus it doesn't trigger any mechanism within the UK DVLA to pass the owner details on to that third-party country.

With regard to the electronic tolls along the Algarve coast motorway in Portugal (not to be confused with the "normal" take-a-ticket-when-you-join-and pay at a machine/manned tool booth when you leave type of toll motorways elsewhere in that country)..........there's absolutely no after-the-fact mechanism to trace non-Portuguese registered vehicles who've used it but not paid.
On the Spanish MH forums the advice from loads of people here is just to ignore the toll system; use that motorway without renting the smartbox/registering, as there's no enforcement of the charges.
In fact, as it's technically a private arrangement and the Company who ran the system has now gone into receivership there's no real control any more over local traffic who are increasingly just using it and ignoring the smart-box Toll element.


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## harrison

Hi Nomad

Which motorway you on about in Spain AP7 ?

Paul


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## teemyob

alhod said:


> One to remember in France is the automatic speed limit of 50 kph (appx 30mph) as you enter any village or town. The limit applies when you pass the village name sign and ends when you exit the other end and pass the sign with the name crossed through. That applies everywhere unless there is another sign for a specific limit (often 70 kph, appx 40 mph).
> 
> Alan


Also look for signs thatmay state a different limit for over 3,500kG's.

As you suggest, it is autoamtically 50kph when you enter a town and then the national speed limit (unless otherwise stated). Becomes the limit when you exit the town/village (a red cross through the name).

If you see 30kph for over 3500kG's stick to it.

The Gendarmes love to get vans and trucks on that one becasue it is so easy.

TM


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## TheNomad

harrison said:


> Hi Nomad
> 
> Which motorway you on about in Spain AP7 ?
> 
> Paul


No. The Algarve coastal motorway, which runs alongside the N125, in Portugal.

My point is that loads of Spanish motorhomers have been saying to each other on Spanish motorhome internet forums for a year or more now: "use the Algarve coastal motorway when you go on holiday over there, and don't bother getting a smartbox to pay for your use of it, as there's no toll enforcement system for any vehicles with non-Portuguese plates".

We live in Spain, and have Spanish plates on our MH and motorbike.
We go over to Portugal at least twice a year and on the basis of the above advice I've used the Algarve motorway loads of times with both vehicles, in the months at a time that we've been there, and the Spanish are right: nothing happens.

We've got some friends who live in Portugal, he has a Portuguese car, and he told us that even most locals now use the Algarve electronic toll motorway without a smartbox toll-tag thingy now too, as "the system has gone bust, and no-one gets done for not paying any more".


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## Penquin

rayc said:


> I read in this months MMM that in France vehicles with a GVW over 3.5t, including motor homes, are limited to 50kph when the speed limit is 70kph. I knew all the other French speed limits for motorhomes over 3.5t but I didn't know that one.


Our 3.85t now French registered Kontiki is required to have 3 speed limiting advice plates on the rear

80 -the limit for us when there is a 90kph limit

100 - the limit for us when there is a 110kph limit

110 - the limit for us when there is a 130kph limit

These are the only requirements that the _Controle Technique_ know about..... so where MMM gets it's information would be interesting...... :?

it may well be they are publishing a confusion for HGV type lorries laden in wet conditions or smelling of garlic - easily confused with the limits for those who abstain from garlic...... :lol:

Dave


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## harrison

Sounds the French are going in circles to invent driving laws like speed control breathalyser control, why is it cause they need to be noticed in Europe or drink to much wine :roll:


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## rayc

harrison said:


> Sounds the French are going in circles to invent driving laws like speed control breathalyser control, why is it cause they need to be noticed in Europe or drink to much wine :roll:


I think it is because they had a very poor Killed and Serious Injury record. They have made genuine efforts to reduce that without resorting to the UK method of siting cameras were there are the most offenders and not the most dangerous.

They know they have a problem with low level drink driving and whilst the breathalyser control was not thought through at least they have not enforced it.

As I live in a county with one of the poorest KSI accident rate in the UK I will not criticise the French authorities when 'our' professionals have targeted the easily detected offences rather than the most serious.


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## Penquin

France has for a very long time had a serious level of rtc fatalities, the last President (Sarkozy) expressed his avowed intent to reduce this before he left office, hence there was a whole draft of legislation relating to driving, vehicles, warning signs, alcohol levels and so on.

Some of them have been hyped by media reports - such as the breathalyzer laws which have not been completed, and the warnings for speed cameras - all of these were designed to reduce the incidence of rtc fatalities.

Whether one likes it or not, the French authorities are tackling a perceived problem, with varying degrees of success.

I have to say that since living in France for 2+ years we have seen no rtc at all, only a couple of aftermaths. The same could not be said for the UK, but of course the roads carry a much heavier load in the UK than many of the roads around us or that we use. 

But there are some aspects of French driving which do raise hackles; tailgating, even by lorries, overtaking on solid white lines and those that totally ignore the speed limits, whether it be 30, 50, 70, 90, 110 or 130kph.

I could, of course, say the same things for UK drivers ignoring 30, 50, 60 or 70mph limits........

Dave


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## Gary1944

One thing the TomTom Start 60 we bought last year is great for. It shows the speed limits as they change and can be set up to alert you with a visual warning with the option of an audible warning as well. Also shows the current speed, very useful with the poor km display on the Ducato.

Takes away the doubt if you are in a 70 or 50 limit when entering a village in France.

Gary.


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## goldi

Afternoon folks,

I n my view one of the reasons for death and serious injury in france is the lack of armco . There are also deep culverts at the side of a lot of road. Anyway we should all endeavour to abide by the speed limits as best we can.

norm


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## Penquin

Gary1944 said:


> Takes away the doubt if you are in a 70 or 50 limit when entering a village in France.
> 
> Gary.


Be warned, it is NOT accurate, many speed limits have changed (downwards) and the mapping is not up to date......

around here there are many which TT says are 90 which are actually 70 - the 70 limits seem to be much more common now than I remember, but TT is a long way behind, even on the peages........

Be careful and look for signs, they take precedence over what TT says if you are stopped by a Gendarme...... and €90 on the spot reinforces that point.......

Dave


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## thieawin

The legal situation

absent legislation the courts of one country will not enforce the taxes, fines and penalties of another

Whether DVLA release the information or not is not relevant. The French can buy the info from DVLA

If they do it still leaves the French (or any one else, EU or not) able to issue the demand and even a summons, but the Courts of the UK, will not enforce. FULL STOP. END OF. 

However you may still get nicked next time you return

As for reciprocal points and bans there is an EU initiative, been around about 15 years and got no where. Even the Brits and Irish who's systems of points etc are similar have not been able to conclude a bilateral deal after 10 years of trying. Its why I have multiple licences, a Brit one an IOM one and a Republic of Ireland one.

The UK and IOM have a reciprocal recognition of bans, Banned in one and you are banned in the other, but not of points or endorsements


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## Stanner

Penquin said:


> Gary1944 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Takes away the doubt if you are in a 70 or 50 limit when entering a village in France.
> 
> Gary.
> 
> 
> 
> Be warned, it is NOT accurate, many speed limits have changed (downwards) and the mapping is not up to date......
> 
> around here there are many which TT says are 90 which are actually 70 - the 70 limits seem to be much more common now than I remember, but TT is a long way behind, even on the peages........
> 
> Be careful and look for signs, they take precedence over what TT says if you are stopped by a Gendarme...... and €90 on the spot reinforces that point.......
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

One reason I have never trusted the TeleAtlas mapping used by TT I just found it to be too riddled with serious (to the point of illegal if you believed the maps) errors.

If I see a car (or often a horsebox) drive up the road near me and stop, puzzled by the No Entry signs at the Bridge end before attempting to turn round in a narrow road, I can tell you exactly which satnav they are using - TT. :roll:


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## harrison

You can be find for using camera sat nav in France 

Paul


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## bigcats30

harrison said:


> You can be find for using camera sat nav in France
> 
> Paul


Hence why now most sat navs now alert you to a danger zone and not a camera

always ways around stupid laws


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