# Dogs and The Caravan Club



## monkton

For those interested, there is a membership questionnaire on the subject of 'Dogs on Caravan Club Sites' being promoted currently at www.caravanclub.co.uk/dogs the results of which are due to be debated via the Sites sub-Committee and the Executive Committee in the Autumn.

I picked this up in the 'letters' section (entitled 'A Dogs Tale') of the October edition of the CC magazine. The questions cover a broad spectrum of issues associated with dogs on CC sites, including such matters as limiting the number of dogs per unit, the banning of dogs on sites, charges for dogs, etc.


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## tokkalosh

Thanks monkton, I have completed said questionaire.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I only want to take five.

Less trouble, noise and mess than kids.

They do not mess the sanitation blocks.
They do not throw litter about.
They are not rude or disrespectfull

Just part of my family.



In all honesty they always go to local kenels, but...
Dave p


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## davenlyn

Thank you I have completed the survey and will let others who I think might be interested know about it


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## geraldandannie

Thanks, and I've completed the survey too.

I think responsible dog ownership should be encouraged at all camping venues. I cited our MHF rallies, where we have a large number of dog owning attendees, and I think it adds to our enjoyment of the occasion, and promotes friendship between attendees.

Gerald


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## HurricaneSmith

Thanks Monkton, I'd missed that survey and as a dog owner I'm delighted you provided the link for completion. It's done.


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## 96299

I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.

steve


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## Waleem

Chigman said:


> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve


Well, you are now unpopular with me Steve!


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## Brocher

Done it! Thanks.


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## greygit

Just completed it as well.
Gary


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## peedee

Done it, thanks Monkton.

peedee


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## Patchworkqueen

I used to own 4 dogs but never took more than 1 onto a caravan site.
I have been attacked by a seemingly friendly dog on a caravan site which resulted in some facial scaring so I think that dogs on camp sites should be muzzled.
Dogs are unpredictable and can attack without warning.
The short lead rule should also be enforced as many owners use the extendable type which allow the dogs to roam more freely.
Some owners are so confident that their dog won't bite they think the rules don't apply to them.


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## patp

Done it :wink: 

Do you think they mean CL sites too? I would cancel my membership if they did.

To be honest I very rarely use a club site. If I need to be near somewhere and a CC site is the only option then I will use one but will always try to find a CL or CS first.


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## GypsyRose

I would also cancel membership if it included CL's.......we only go away because our 3 Yorkies enjoly it so much!! 8O 8O :lol:


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## peedee

Some good points there patchworkqueen but I would not like to see a rule where all dogs should be muzzled. I don't trust my dog with children but still would not like to see him muzzled. I would have thought the law already covered this area anyway. I do have a "halti" for better control but exercise judgement as to whether I use it or not. 

I did think about suggesting certain known more aggressive breeds should be banned but generally its not the dogs fault but the owners. Simply based on my experience this would be unfair because most people on CC sites do keep dogs under control so I have no real beef about dogs on sites.

peedee


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## peedee

patp said:


> Do you think they mean CL sites too? I would cancel my membership if they did.


What happens on CLs is up to each individual owner, some CLs already ban dogs.

peedee


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## 38Rover

Done it, why not ban kids hey cause more problems than dogs do if there were a ban I would leave


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## quartet

*Kids muzzled (some)*

Maybe we should muzzle (some) kids too
My dog doesn't kick footballs up against my motorhome or scream until after dark in a large pack. Play music loud. Urinate on purpose in front on my van.
Hurl abuse at me when tackled Have equally repugnant and permissive parents who invade your "space" and privacy. All of which have happened frequently on both CC & CCC sites, which is why we head for Adults only sites when possible. Our shih tzu won't bite you but if encouraged might give you a nasty lick! My dog is far less hassle than any kid or adult for that matter! By the way I have 2 grownup daughters who have never been in any kind of trouble with the police or neighbours or at school due largely to the fact that they knew what would happen to them if they were in trouble!!!!
We have taken them to campsites over a period of 30 years and can honestly say we have never let them out of our sight and interfered with other peoples pleasure.
Barry


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## xgx

mmmmmmm... one of my comments on the survey was:

'Some of the measures in Q1 should apply to children... never left unattended and always on a lead '

as always it comes down to being responsible dog owners and parents ... none of whom should be penalised

..target the twerps!


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## Patchworkqueen

Most dog owners think that their dog won't bite. 
The dog that attacked me had been next to us for 2 weeks and been very friendly. On the day the owners were leaving the site and we were saying our farewells the dog attacked.
As I said before we used to have 4 dogs, 2 border collies and 2 rough collies so I do understand the nature of dogs and the pleasure and benefits of dog ownership but my views about dogs on campsites will not change.
I don't thing they should be banned but the numbers limited and the rules strictly enforced. We did take our dogs to a CL which was not a problem.
I take the point about children but you can always use Adult only sites or CLs. Like dogs, most children are well behaved and again it is the owners (parents in this case) that do not control the ones that are not.
We could extend this discussion into badly behaved adults but the questionnaire is about dogs.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I`d like to ba certain people 

DAve p


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## dillon

Waleem said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you are now unpopular with me Steve!
Click to expand...

and us


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## RichardnGill

Because of our Labrador it is the reasn why we ended up with Motorhome as it is very easy to get away with the dog and most sites we pick are dog freindly for walks ETC.

I doubt even the CC could ban dogs from all its sites as from what I have seen more than 50% of people take a dog away with them. Perhapse they might charge for them or put limits on say more than 2?


Richard...


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## adgy

Just completed the survey.

I think the majority of responsible dog owners should be encouraged to complain about the irresponsible dog owners to the wardens. If the complaint is substantiated then 'three strikes' and your out.

I will seriously consider leaving the club if any further restrictions are placed on dogs and none on unruly, unsupervised kids.

Cheers


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## DABurleigh

Yes. I suppose my beef is the prospect of rules that are aimed at the selfish, ignorant owners but will also ruin things for the more responsible ones. 

Personally I don't like having to have Zoe on a lead or tied to a stake at the pitch. The rules OUGHT to be about having dogs under control, not causing nuisance and not fouling on pitches and play areas. HOW the owner meets those requirements should be up to them. 

Dave


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## peedee

DABurleigh said:


> The rules OUGHT to be about having dogs under control, not causing nuisance and not fouling on pitches and play areas. HOW the owner meets those requirements should be up to them.
> 
> Dave


I actually stayed on one CC site where the warder said just that to me with the added statement that if my dog was off the lead he didn't mind as long as no one complained!

peedee


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## DABurleigh

Which one peedee and I'll go out of my way to visit


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## peedee

I'll PM you but it doesn't mean to say he/they are still at the same site.

peedee


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## RichardnGill

I love going away in my Motorhome, please Mr. Caravan Club dont stop me.

Love Rolo


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## relay

My dog-owning days were pre-camper days but I love to see well-trained owners and their dogs enjoying a holiday together. I'd rather see a dog under control and off the lead, than one ranging far and wide, totally unaware of its owner, on an extending lead. However, we often holiday with friends who are scared of dogs. They've never owned dogs and don't understand their behaviour and just having one, however well-behaved the owner is, on the pitch next to them makes them uncomfortable. Therefore, I do think it could be a good idea to have some "dogless areas" on at least some sites. 
-H


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## Zebedee

Dogless areas would be acceptable to most people I think Relay. A suitable compromise . . . . unless those *with *a dog were regarded as second class citizens!!!! 8O 8O

On many sites any such areas would obviously have to be at the other end to the site entrance, and that would not be popular with dog haters! :roll: I guarantee they would complain (_again_!!!) and regard it as a restriction upon them!

____________________________________________​
Chigman is entitled to his opinion, though I didn't really want to hear it!! :roll:

*He *doesn't like dogs so he wants them banned.

OK. What is his response (and others who dislike dogs) to the many people who hate motorhomes and want *them *banned . . . . . like the residents of an increasing number of seaside resorts, just for a start! :?

Same difference - _ "*I* don't like ******* therefore they should be banned!"_

Live and let live I say!  

Dave


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## littlenell

I have only just joined CC and mainly due to the sites accepting dogs without rip off charges, if that changes I will cancel membership straight away. Have found that facilites vary a lot...and our guys needs are a little different to those of much smaller dogs BUT we do what is required and get on with it...

I hope the education they refer to includes those who appear to have no clue about dogs and how to engage with them in an appropriate manner. At a campsite recently there were groups of young children who roamed around, no adult in sight, who took to coming up to our dobes and throwing themselves around their neck for a cuddle, then shooting at them with cap guns. Just how is that acceptable?? Need eyes in back of head sometimes, and our guys are quite tolerant, but that is not a situation we had prepared for.

Our guys love the van, and after spending months in so called dog friendly hotels/cottages decided a camper was the better option...we can actually relax properly.


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## monkton

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my original post. I was pleased to have been of assistance, particularly given the somewhat obscure way in which the CC have promoted this intended review of their policy. Putting my cards on the table, I am a dog owner. Whilst I think that charging for dogs (normally £0.50 to £1.00 per night) is a little churlish, I actually don't mind unduly where designated dog walking facilities are provided (since these cost to provide and maintain) but then again, how would families with children feel if they had charges imposed for the use of play areas, etc., which are far more expensive to provide and maintain. I just hope that the outcome of this review does not result in a ban on dogs or such draconian measures as muzzling, etc.


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## DABurleigh

I think nuke ought to award monton a medal for the most thanked post ever 

Dave


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## Zebedee

DABurleigh said:


> I think nuke ought to award monton a medal for the most thanked post ever
> Dave


It has caused an unforseen problem with horizontal scrolling though! 8O

I have flagged it up for Nuke to look at.

Dave


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## DABurleigh

Don't be so stingy and get a decent display/ monitor! Only reaches half-way on my 1920 pixels 

Dave


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## smick

Somewhat worried about this development, as we also holiday with our two collies, who are working mountain rescue search dogs. I'm a believer in having dogs properly under control. In general, when our dogs are not being walked, then they're in the van, so that children cannot walk up and molest them, which seems to be the norm these days - I was always taught to ask first, before approaching any strange dog.

I would not like to see charges made, unless those were to provide decent dog walks, and disposal facilities for waste. There are some strange CC definitions of "dog walks" - at Henley on Thames, it's 20 feet of mud. Our collies generally reckon that 200 hectares of forest off the lead, or a 100m sq field for throwing balls in fits the bill properly, but will accept lesser "on lead" walks if there is suitable exercise sometime in the day.

I can however see why this has arisen, having seen dogs left in caravans or awnings all day on sites, even on hot days, and the inevitable small number who allow their dogs to foul, run about uncontrolled etc. I think wardens should be instructed to request compliance with the rules, and if necessary ask units to leave if people do not comply.

However, having said all this...if I could actually book a pitch on any Caravan Club site this year, having tried and failed on a number of occasions - I suspect because of block bookings by some members... I feel that there are more important issues confronting them which they choose to ignore.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Got it,
Dog free areas. No barking or fouling

Child free areas No litter or abuse

BBQ free areas No burnt food smells

Over 24 ft rv free areas No spoilt views

where do we stop

Dave p


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## DABurleigh

Clearly sites "just for people like us", obviously :-(

Dave


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## peedee

I cannot really see any changes arising although I do wonder what has prompted the survey. There are too many dog owning members and introduction of charges would I suspect cause somewhat of a stir. In any case where is the justification other than perhaps to keep numbers to a sensible level. There does appear an increasing trend to the ownership of more than one dog. I can understand perhaps having two but more than two, why????? If you are breeder then surely proper provision for animals which cannot truly be classed as pets should be made when you go off on holiday. The original rules were probably drawn up when one dog per member was more the norm, multiply dogs per owner have more of a pack instinct and with its inherent risks there could be a case for limiting numbers of dogs per pitch. 

I don't think it is feasible to have dog free areas, sounds like an admin nightmare and would surely constrain pitch choice.

peedee


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## 124189

*Dogs and the Caravan Club*

Thank you for the link. I do hope this gets a good airing as I know dogs are very popular and like me the only way I can have a holiday is in my campervan. I have only been away once up to now and while I was at the site one of the management was there looking at the dog walk and he said if they didn't allow dogs they would loose half their members. I just bought my van this year to get a holiday but would have to leave the CC if dogs were band. Watton


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## rowley

Monkton wrote---- I actually don't mind unduly where designated dog walking facilities are provided (since these cost to provide and maintain) but then again, how would families with children feel if they had charges imposed for the use of play areas, etc., which are far more expensive to provide and maintain. I just hope that the outcome of this review does not result in a ban on dogs or such draconian measures as muzzling, etc.

Parents do have to pay for children so I am sure that must go towards paying for play areas.


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## sideways

I,m Given to understand by the person in charge of such matters in our sport,that from an unspecified date in 2012 people with dogs will not be allowed to camp in the same field as those with dogs. An outfit called Natural England have seen some vids of car racing and have noticed campers in the background that they think are too close together, it appears that they have power over any camping anywhere in UK, Its caused lots of upheaval and extra work and cost for many clubs. I dont think its them on the dog issue, but some other body. Soon wont be able to go anywhere or do anything without some officials sanction.


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## robflyer

I used to belong to both the CC and the C&CC and the letter pages in their magazines were full of people who whinged and whined at just about everything. They were 'appalled' that people took dogs to campsites. They were 'horrified' that people were allowed to use BBQ's on site. 
They were 'shocked' that people took their kids camping. 
They were 'disgusted' that they were expected to pay 8 quid or whatever to stay the night. The list went on and on! They even had to have PTSD counselling because the next rig was 12 feet of theirs! GOSH!! Shock, horror! within 
These people must be very easily 'appalled' 'shocked' or 'horrified'.
I don't have kids, dogs or BBQ's but what the heck? People are taking a break in the best way they can.
In all the time I have used campsites I have never come across neighbours from hell!
Maybe I'm easily pleased??

Regards

Robflyer


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## Briarose

I have completed it, and to be honest if they start to ban dogs, segregate etc etc then we won't bother with renewing our membership, its as simple as that, as our dogs are part of why we have a motorhome and a big part of our time away.


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## aikidomo

*Dogs on sites*

I took part in the survey which I think is quite fair, question wise.
They will be discussing the question of Dogs on site at the next A.G.M.
I have no problem with dogs on site, ditto children after all we were all one at one time and those of us that can remember our childhood.... because most of us are of a certain age, would have given our all to have the kind of time kids now have.
I will not compare kids to dogs though, in my mind they are separate issues.
Charging for dogs on site is rather tight fisted of the C.C.& C.C.C. though.
Clive


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## monkton

rowley said:


> Monkton wrote---- I actually don't mind unduly where designated dog walking facilities are provided (since these cost to provide and maintain) but then again, how would families with children feel if they had charges imposed for the use of play areas, etc., which are far more expensive to provide and maintain. I just hope that the outcome of this review does not result in a ban on dogs or such draconian measures as muzzling, etc.
> 
> Parents do have to pay for children so I am sure that must go towards paying for play areas.


You are quite right to correct me Rowley. My apologies for the error.


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## CliveMott

Why is it dog owners believe that you automatically like dogs as well?

Why is it that dog owners always believe that signs that say "Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times" don't apply to their dog because they come when when they are called.


Grrrrrr

P.S. We have had 2 dogs, 5 goats, many cats, flock of geese, 36 chickens, 100 rabbits, pigeons, tortoiseses, hampsters over the years so don,t jump straight away!

But on a camp site today then no thanks, not near me.

C.


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## DABurleigh

I'll get Zoe to bite your ankles next time.


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## littlenell

CliveMott said:


> Why is it dog owners believe that you automatically like dogs as well?
> 
> Why is it that dog owners always believe that signs that say "Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times" don't apply to their dog because they come when when they are called.
> 
> Grrrrrr
> C.


I presume that should read "some" dog owners else it smacks as rather a sweeping generalisation? :? AND who is to say that the dogs "like" you?


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## DABurleigh

When he's making crepes they like him very much. And the worse at it he is, the better they like it.


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## xgx

CliveMott said:


> Why is it dog owners believe that you automatically like dogs as well?
> 
> Bovine by-product
> 
> Why is it that dog owners always believe that signs that say "Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times" don't apply to their dog because they come when when they are called.
> more bovine by-product
> 
> Grrrrrr
> 
> P.S. We have had 2 dogs, 5 goats, many cats, flock of geese, 36 chickens, 100 rabbits, pigeons, tortoiseses, hampsters over the years so don,t jump straight away!
> 
> Recipes?
> 
> But on a camp site today then no thanks, not near me.
> more than happy to oblige...
> 
> C.


 Just because one thinks it, it doesn't make it real; on the other hand, if it makes one happy........


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## Sonesta

I too will not renew my CC membership if they start to introduce a dog ban and I think a lot of other members would follow suit too.

I agree there should be strict rules where dogs are concerned and I agree that ignorant, selfish and irresponsible dog owners should be targeted but why should the vast majority of caring, responsible and decent dog owners be penalised for the actions of the minority?  

I understand and appreciate that not everyone is a dog lover and I realise that some people really do not like dogs full stop. So, maybe in order to accomodate this type of CC member a dog free site may have its appeal! Therefore, I suppose just as there are adult only sites around there could be an argument for dog free ones too but to introduce a blanket ban is neither fair, realistic nor wise and I would strongly object to such extreme measures.

Our 2 little dogs are part of our family and they bring immense joy into our lives - so being able to take them along with us whenever we go away in our MH is a major factor in why we love the freedom of motorhoming so much. I am sure we are not alone with these feelings and there are thousands out there who share the exact same sentiments as us and in my opinion the CC would be extremely foolish to rock the boat where dogs and members are concerned if you ask me! 8O 

Sue


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## Zozzer

Chigman said:


> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve


I agree, I also think dogs should have to have their own membership fee before being allowed on a site, and to a pay per night fee like their owners.


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## 96299

CliveMott said:


> Why is it dog owners believe that you automatically like dogs as well?
> 
> Why is it that dog owners always believe that signs that say "Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times" don't apply to their dog because they come when when they are called.
> 
> C.


My thoughts exactly Clive. I personally don't like dogs anywhere near to me, it's like a phobia with me really and can really change my mood when they are about, so I would welcome more no dog sites.

steve

steve


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## Sonesta

Zozzer said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I also think dogs should have to have their own membership fee before being allowed on a site, and to a pay per night fee like their owners.
Click to expand...

Mmm - a little harsh if you don't mind me saying so Steve and Zosser! Please tell me why you both feel so strongly about dogs and why you would like to see them become banned from all campsites etc? I respect the fact that you may not have an affinity with our 4 legged canine friends - but is there a particular reason or experience that has caused either of you to become so anti dogs?

In life I think we all have to respect one and other and accept that our choices are not everyone's choices and so it is important that we look at life from all angles and not just from our own! I truly believe that providing we approach all situations in a fair, considerate and sensitive manner we cannot go far wrong and we can then achieve a well balanced solution to most problems and to my mind, compromise is the key to resolving most of lifes issues don't you agree?

Like I said in my previous post I do respect the fact that not everyone is a dog lover and I agree that for those folk that prefer to be kept well away from them, then an introduction of dog free sites would be a good idea but to suggest a blanket ban on all dogs to all sites, is way over the top and certainly not something that we devoted and responsible dog owners would take lightly! 

Sue


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## 96299

Sonesta said:


> Zozzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I also think dogs should have to have their own membership fee before being allowed on a site, and to a pay per night fee like their owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mmm - a little harsh if you don't mind me saying so Steve and Zosser! Please tell me why you both feel so strongly about dogs and why you would like to see them become banned from all campsites etc? I respect the fact that you may not have an affinity with our 4 legged canine friends - but is there a particular reason or experience that has caused either of you to become so anti dogs?
> 
> In life I think we all have to respect one and other and accept that our choices are not everyone's choices and so it is important that we look at life from all angles and not just from our own! I truly believe that providing we approach all situations in a fair, considerate and sensitive manner we cannot go far wrong and we can then achieve a well balanced solution to most problems and to my mind, compromise is the key to resolving most of lifes issues don't you agree?
> 
> Like I said in my previous post I do respect the fact that not everyone is a dog lover and I agree that for those folk that prefer to be kept well away from them, then an introduction of dog free sites would be a good idea but to suggest a blanket ban on all dogs to all sites, is way over the top and certainly not something that we devoted and responsible dog owners would take lightly!
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

Hi Sue

A tough one to answer for sure. I don't really know especially as my Mum had a few dogs when i was growing up. I remember that one dog used to mess sometimes in the house and that in the middle of the night I have been known to tread in it once or twice which thinking back used to make me very angry and curse the dog, so maybe that could be one reason I don't know.

I just see dogs as dirty animals that have to lick themselves all over to clean and the thought of them coming up to me and licking me or something is a deffo no no moment for me and I would cringe and be very annoyed if that happened.

All the talk of responsible dog owners is all well and good and of coarse I'm all for it but, I wish the dog walkers over at my local footpath could read the bible of dog doo picking up because there is crap everywhere over there, and when I say that I cant lift my head from looking at the floor through fear of treading in any, that's a serious amount of dung. Some of them have picked it up and deposited it into a bag only to throw it into the trees and hedges a little further along the lane. It doesn't make for a very nice decoration for the tree I can tell you, and only now just noticeable as the tree's start to loose there leaves. It really gets my goat and is a real pet hate of mine. People like that are giving the good owners a real bad rep. I dunno, I just don't like to be in the company of dogs at the end of the day.

steve


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## geraldandannie

Chigman said:


> It really gets my goat and is a real pet hate of mine. People like that are giving the good owners a real bad rep.


I, and probably many other 'responsible' dog owners, agree with you Steve.

We have the same situation here. I don't know who these people are who let their dogs foul without picking up. Every owner I meet picks up, even those who have mobility issues and have to get off their mobility scooters to 'do the business'.

Gerald


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## Mrs_Zozzer

There should be a limit to how many dogs people can take on to sites & if they do ban them at least other Non pet owners will be able to book a site of there choice due to sites not being booked up 12 months in advance like it is now. never been able to book a site yet of my choice due to this problem, and some caravan owners park there cars on one side of there van and then put there dogs on the opposite side tied to a post so that the next person on the pitch in a motorhome has got to spend there week or weekend with a dog outside there door. :evil: :evil:


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## Zozzer

Sonesta said:


> Zozzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I also think dogs should have to have their own membership fee before being allowed on a site, and to a pay per night fee like their owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mmm - a little harsh if you don't mind me saying so Steve and Zosser! Please tell me why you both feel so strongly about dogs and why you would like to see them become banned from all campsites etc? I respect the fact that you may not have an affinity with our 4 legged canine friends - but is there a particular reason or experience that has caused either of you to become so anti dogs?
> 
> In life I think we all have to respect one and other and accept that our choices are not everyone's choices and so it is important that we look at life from all angles and not just from our own! I truly believe that providing we approach all situations in a fair, considerate and sensitive manner we cannot go far wrong and we can then achieve a well balanced solution to most problems and to my mind, compromise is the key to resolving most of lifes issues don't you agree?
> 
> Like I said in my previous post I do respect the fact that not everyone is a dog lover and I agree that for those folk that prefer to be kept well away from them, then an introduction of dog free sites would be a good idea but to suggest a blanket ban on all dogs to all sites, is way over the top and certainly not something that we devoted and responsible dog owners would take lightly!
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

If you respect my views on dogs why, are you asking me justify them.?
I think your being a little one sided. The only concession I would be prepared to accept, is that like shops and supermarkets, I would allow a dog that is used as a guide to assist a blind person.

The CC must have been getting a lot of complaints for them to have a survey on the views of the membership.


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## RichardnGill

Like we have said previously Rolo is the reason we bought a motorhome.
We have had more problems with unruly kids that parents dont give a toss who they bother.If their was a survey to keep kids on leash i would vote yes and we have kids.

On One CC site their was a lad riding round our van constantly on his bike not slow either which nearly caused an accident, meaning he had to swerve to miss a car making him almost hit our van.His parents/grandparents didnt care as long as he wasnt doing it round their van.

we have never had a problem with anyones dogs on CC sites and it would be a sad day if they were banned from sites.
I dont mind a small fee but what facilities do they use.Small quantity of water
poo bin if there is one.
Gill


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## monkton

Well! At least the subject has had a good airing


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## zappy61

*Re: Kids muzzled (some)*



Bessie560 said:


> Maybe we should muzzle (some) kids too
> My dog doesn't kick footballs up against my motorhome or scream until after dark in a large pack. Play music loud. Urinate on purpose in front on my van.
> Hurl abuse at me when tackled Have equally repugnant and permissive parents who invade your "space" and privacy. All of which have happened frequently on both CC & CCC sites, which is why we head for Adults only sites when possible. Our shih tzu won't bite you but if encouraged might give you a nasty lick! My dog is far less hassle than any kid or adult for that matter! By the way I have 2 grownup daughters who have never been in any kind of trouble with the police or neighbours or at school due largely to the fact that they knew what would happen to them if they were in trouble!!!!
> We have taken them to campsites over a period of 30 years and can honestly say we have never let them out of our sight and interfered with other peoples pleasure.
> Barry


That fit us to a 'T' as well Barry we have two sons now grown up with kids and caravans who never let the kids out of their sight (like us) but often complain that they are treated unfairly by sites who think they will be like the growing number who let their kids run riot. We also had two dogs which were walked twice a day every day with no trace left behind and never a nuisance to anyone through barking etc. We don't have a dog now because we found it traumatic coping with their loss and also because it seems the world is becoming more and more anti dog due I believe to irresponsible owners not the dogs.

Graham


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## Sonesta

Zozzer said:


> If you respect my views on dogs why, are you asking me justify them.?
> I think your being a little one sided. The only concession I would be prepared to accept, is that like shops and supermarkets, I would allow a dog that is used as a guide to assist a blind person.
> 
> The CC must have been getting a lot of complaints for them to have a survey on the views of the membership.


Oh dear Zozzer I am certainly not asking you to justify your views at all, far from it in fact. I was merely asking if there was a particular reason or incident that has happened that may have caused you to feel this way? 

I do know that very often some kind of negative or traumatic encounter with a dog can leave it's mark on a person and the last post from Steve is a prime example of how a negative experience can affect a person! I myself, spent many, many years being absolutely terrified around any dog, especially large dogs that were not kept on a lead! It all stemmed from my childhood: As a small child I used to love watching Lassie and all her adventures on the TV and that dog was such a clever, gentle and brave dog who saved her owner and others from so many disastrous and dangerous situations! Oh how I longed to have a loyal and faithful dog like her to love and look after my family and me!

Anyway, one day, I think I was about 6 years old at the time, my mum and I were out walking and we ventured past a house not far from our home, where to my absolute amazement, there suddenly before my very eyes there was "Lassie" the wonder dog standing there for all the world to see! There she was, like something straight off my TV screen, standing on her hind legs, with paws resting on the top of a small garden gate! Obviously to the innocent eyes of an excited child, I immediately mistook the dog to be the real and genuine  "Lassie" and I could not believe what I was seeing! Without any warning I wrenched my hand free from my mums hand and rushed over excitedly to stroke my 4 legged hero - to my horror "Lassie" responded not in the friendly "Lassie" way that I'd expected but instead she snarled visciously, bared her teeth and bit me! I was only gate high in height, so my little nose took the brunt of the dog's huge wolf like teeth and I screamed in terror as I recall seeing all this bright red blood gushing from my face. The pain was intense and I just remember my poor mum being beside herself, not knowing what to do or who to turn to. I was rushed to our local hospital to be examined and I remember being hysterical as they stitched up my wound and insisted on giving me a tetanus jab! Oh it was all so traumatic for a tiny little girl and for years and years after that I went into a total panic if ever I was in the vicinity of any dog. If a strange dog ever came anywhere near me I would become totally hysterical! However, as I grew older and experienced more positive encounters with dogs, my fears thankfully began to gradually subside and although I was never a real dog lover I was no longer the nervous wreck around them that I once was! However, I am now the proud owner of 2 little white fluffy balls of joy called Candy Kisses and Buddy and myself and my husband adore these 2 sweet little dogs. To be honest I could not imagine our lives without them now and we love them to pieces! However, even today some 47 years later, my traumatic experience still remains with me and the scar under my right nostril is a constant reminder of my terrifying ordeal! Even now, if I were out and about and a strange dog that I did not know was wandering around unleashed (especially a very large dog) and it came bounding over towards me I would still break out in a cold sweat and feel my heart start to thump! I suppose that deep down fear will always stay with me and Iguess I will never feel 100% comfortable when faced with that situation.

So Zozzer, I do understand how a past experience can affect a person and yes I do feel I am looking at this issue from all sides and not just from one side as you suggest I am doing in your previous post! However, even when my own personal fear of dogs was at its peak, I was still capable of looking at the subject objectively and would never totally disregard other people's views, thoughts and opinions and no way would I have ever advocated the blanket ban that you and Steve would apparently would like to see implemented! Therefore, in my defence, I must say that I most certainly do totally and absolutely respect your views on this subject and I hope you in return can and do also respect mine and other peoples too? 

As for all dogs being banned from campsites (apart from guide dogs) then please may I point out that there are many, many people out there in society, both young and old alike, whose dogs are equally as important to their lives as they are to a blind persons and although they may not need a dog for mobility purposes, psychologically they may depend on them enormously! For instance, being without the companionship and love from their dog would probably make life quite unbearable for so many lonely people and to part such people from their dog or dogs could cause untold unhappiness and heartache. We meet so many people when we are away in our MH who have lost their husband or wife and their loyal and faithful dog is often the only thing that gives them a purpose in life. Without their dog to care for, many grieving partners would not want to even get out of bed in the morning and we see this kind of sad situation all too often during our travels. People like this often meet likeminded people when out taking their dog or dogs for their daily strolls and for many, their dog is their only lifeline with the outside world! Childless couples often substitute their maternal/paternal needs with a little dog and for these couples their dog becomes the focus of their lives! I believe to prevent all these people and many more besides from enjoying their camping holidays with their canine friends alongside would be so cruel and surely nobody advocates such extreme measures do they? 

Hospitals, children's wards and care homes often invite dogs into their establishments or onto their wards in order to help perk up or bring a little smile to the faces of ill or elderly patients and petting a dog has been scientifically proven to be therapeutic to we mere humans! 

Surely, bearing all this in mind, we can all come to a solution that takes into account all people and all views and do we really have to campaign for a total blanket ban???? You may not like dogs Zozzer and yes I think everyone should respect that - but I urge you to consider the feelings of those amongst us who may not view all dogs in quite the same way as you do?

In conclusion - I think the introduction of dog free zones and dog free campsites would be an excellent idea and that way, we can all live together happily knowing that we are all being catered for and that everyone has a certain degree of choice! Mind you - its sods law that it wont suit everyone and no matter what we introduce it wont satisfy him or her! There will always be someone, who wants it all their way and sadly the word compromise is NOT part of their vocabulary! :roll:

Sue


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## whistlinggypsy

Who could not love Rolo, he's lovely


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## richardjames

My wife and I love children (we hate the term 'kids') and dogs, we are both teachers but we do not like irresponsible parents who allow a free reign to their offspring and irresponsible dog owners who leave their pets in 'vans for a whole day.
It is, however, our experience over a number of years of club use, that these probs are few and far between.
Well done club memeber and wardens 8O 8O
We, as members, own the club therefore majority rules


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## ThursdaysChild

When someone invents a dog that doesn't bark between the hours of 20.00 and 09.00, I will change my vote.


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## Sonesta

Chigman said:


> Hi Sue
> 
> A tough one to answer for sure. I don't really know especially as my Mum had a few dogs when i was growing up. I remember that one dog used to mess sometimes in the house and that in the middle of the night I have been known to tread in it once or twice which thinking back used to make me very angry and curse the dog, so maybe that could be one reason I don't know.
> 
> I just see dogs as dirty animals that have to lick themselves all over to clean and the thought of them coming up to me and licking me or something is a deffo no no moment for me and I would cringe and be very annoyed if that happened.
> 
> All the talk of responsible dog owners is all well and good and of coarse I'm all for it but, I wish the dog walkers over at my local footpath could read the bible of dog doo picking up because there is crap everywhere over there, and when I say that I cant lift my head from looking at the floor through fear of treading in any, that's a serious amount of dung. Some of them have picked it up and deposited it into a bag only to throw it into the trees and hedges a little further along the lane. It doesn't make for a very nice decoration for the tree I can tell you, and only now just noticeable as the tree's start to loose there leaves. It really gets my goat band is a real pet hate of mine. People like that are giving the good owners a real bad rep. I dunno, I just don't like to be in the company of dogs at the end of the day.
> 
> steve


Hi Steve,

I do 100% sympathise with your feelings and to be honest if you read my previous post you will see that for many years a bad experience I encountered in my childhood with a dog, left me scarred for many, many years! 

I am no expert or physchiatrist by any means, but I guess the cleanliness and hygiene issue you speak of could quite likely stem from your memories of standing in 'doggy doo' when you lived at home as a youngster and who knows, maybe it sparked off some deep down disgust towards dogs and their toilet and hygiene habits?

This is no joke for you I can tell and it's obviously a very real and disturbing issue that you feel very strongly about! Have you ever considered maybe talking to a councillor about how you feel, as he/she may help you to get all this into some kind of perspective? Although it may not be a major obstacle in your life, it is apparant from reading your posts that dogs and their habits do clearly affect you and by the sound of things I presume the fear of stepping in 'doggy doo' again is a constant worry for you! It can't be very nice to live with that fear and I think someone with expert knowledge of phobias and fears may just be able to help? It's worth a try! 

I too am disgusted by irresponsible dog owners Steve and I am under no illusion that all dog owners behave properly or considerately, because I know full well that there are plenty of ignorant and selfish dog owners lurking out there in the shadows. But on the whole, I think the message is slowly filtering through and I believe it would take a brave man/woman to openly let his dog do it's toilet business in todays climate and then be seen NOT to pick up after him! 8O It's the ones that allow their dogs to do their business when nobody is around to see them leave their mess behind, that we desperately need to catch and make an example of don't you agree? Maybe we ought to have 'doggy doo' wardens out there on patrol in our woods, parks and beauty spots ready to catch the culprits red handed and then give them the power to fine each one of them right there on the spot? :twisted:

Seriously, please don't penalise all of us who own dogs as truthfully we are by and large, mostly decent and considerate owners and why should we and our loyal canine friends have to all suffer, simply due to the actions and ignorance of the minority???? 

All the best.

Sue

Sue


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## Sonesta

ThursdaysChild said:


> When someone invents a dog that doesn't bark between the hours of 20.00 and 09.00, I will change my vote.


Mmm - its what dogs do I'm afraid just like little babies cry! :roll: :roll: :roll:

A little bit of tolerance I think Thursdays child is needed here and I've yet to stay on a campsite where the campsite owners would permit anyone's dog to be that much of a nuisance to fellow guests! If you have stayed on such a site then please name and shame them cos I tell you something despite being a dog owner myself I would stay well clear of the place too! Might set my 2 off and I wouldn't want that - I likes me peace too much! :wink:

Sue


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## Nickynoo

I'm afraid that airing our views on this forum is preaching to the already converted. Surely not one of you fellow dog owners reading this ever leaves your dogs mess and doesn't clear it up??
I would like to know who the fellow club members and dog owners are who left their dog dirt on the dogwalk this weekend At Brown Moor CC site without clearing it up even though there is a poo bin on each end of the very generous enclosed dog walk, notices to tell you to pick up and even shovels . but I counted at least 4 un picked up poos.
These fellow dog lovers will get all dogs banned from all public areas and we shall have to endure free for all Dog Parks as they do in America . Do this selfish minority not see the consequences that they will become severly restricted in where they can take their beloved pooch! 
I am more than willing to pay a fee for my dog if I thought areas of the site and dog walks would be covered by CCTV to identify the irresponsible dog owners .
I am constantly dismayed by fellow dog owners not picking up in public places and I can see what the future consequence of their actions will be and it makes me mad :evil: 
It is also a fact that at least half the population don't like and never will like dogs or any other animals that does not mean that they need counselling at least half my friends dont like dogs or cats and the other half do we are all entitled to our views.
It is just a shame that mans best friend for over 14 thousand years is being let down by his best friend who is unwilling & too lazy to educate him how to live in our modern society and to pick up what he leaves behind. 
I rest my case with great sadness 
Nickynoo


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## ThursdaysChild

I think, Sue, that you have underlined my comment. When one dog barks, especially at night, it sets off every other dog withing earshot.
And you surely don't mean that "showing tolerance" = " putting up with it " ?
I go away to get the kind of peace and quiet which modern urban life cannot provide. That includes undisturbed sleep. Barking ( and that includes yapping ) ruins it.
I look forward to the day when a dog owner knocks on my door to apologise for my having been disturbed by the noise his dog(s) have made in the night.


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## richardjames

Sonesta - I like your new Avatar - took me a while to recognise who it was


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## Briarose

Nickynoo said:


> I'm afraid that airing our views on this forum is preaching to the already converted. Surely not one of you fellow dog owners reading this ever leaves your dogs mess and doesn't clear it up??
> I would like to know who the fellow club members and dog owners are who left their dog dirt on the dogwalk this weekend At Brown Moor CC site without clearing it up even though there is a poo bin on each end of the very generous enclosed dog walk, notices to tell you to pick up and even shovels . but I counted at least 4 un picked up poos.
> These fellow dog lovers will get all dogs banned from all public areas and we shall have to endure free for all Dog Parks as they do in America . Do this selfish minority not see the consequences that they will become severly restricted in where they can take their beloved pooch!
> I am more than willing to pay a fee for my dog if I thought areas of the site and dog walks would be covered by CCTV to identify the irresponsible dog owners .
> I am constantly dismayed by fellow dog owners not picking up in public places and I can see what the future consequence of their actions will be and it makes me mad :evil:
> It is also a fact that at least half the population don't like and never will like dogs or any other animals that does not mean that they need counselling at least half my friends dont like dogs or cats and the other half do we are all entitled to our views.
> It is just a shame that mans best friend for over 14 thousand years is being let down by his best friend who is unwilling & too lazy to educate him how to live in our modern society and to pick up what he leaves behind.
> I rest my case with great sadness
> Nickynoo


I actually disagree and feel that now more and more folk pick up their dog poo than years ago, gosh back in the 70s how often did you see folk with doggie bags ??? hardly ever. It is strange as only the other week I was talking to one of the two wardens at Woodhall Spa Jubilee Park and we got on about this very subject, he actually stated that folk that didn't pick up after their dogs nowadays was very few and far between.

I am not saying that there are not areas in the UK where the odd person might try to get away with it, but in general I honestly think things have imroved greatly to years ago.

I can hand on heart say that this summer I have not seen one person leave dog dirt outside our shop, whereas a few years ago I would watch folk and think 'I hope they get a bag out' now I more or less expect that it isn't a problem as folk tend be so much more responsible.


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## Briarose

ThursdaysChild said:


> I think, Sue, that you have underlined my comment. When one dog barks, especially at night, it sets off every other dog withing earshot.
> And you surely don't mean that "showing tolerance" = " putting up with it " ?
> I go away to get the kind of peace and quiet which modern urban life cannot provide. That includes undisturbed sleep. Barking ( and that includes yapping ) ruins it.
> I look forward to the day when a dog owner knocks on my door to apologise for my having been disturbed by the noise his dog(s) have made in the night.


Hi Thursdays Child, I honestly don't know where the heck you must camp we have had three caravans and now our MH, and I can honestly say that in all that time, and all the places that we have been there is only one site that I have been on and experienced any problems with dogs barking in the night, and that was Alvor in Portugal (Camping Dourada) and even that was from quite a way down the street in a local villa, so dogs roaming free there to protect the property and owned by locals nothing to do with campers. Like Sue said maybe you would care to name and shame the sites that you have such a big problem with :wink:

I am a dog owner myself and honestly would hate other campers letting their dogs disturb me and others, but I must just have been lucky hey ?


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## Sonesta

Nickynoo said:


> It is also a fact that at least half the population don't like and never will like dogs or any other animals that does not mean that they need counselling at least half my friends dont like dogs or cats and the other half do we are all entitled to our views. Nickynoo


Hello Nicknoo,

Is the above comment that I have quoted from your post, been made in response to my post to Steve (Chigman) or am I just jumping to the totally wrong conclusion? :? If it is then, I would just like to emphasise that my suggestion to Steve was done with the best of intentions and only because in his post, it appeared that Steve may be more concerned than most re the likeliehood of treading in 'doggy doo' especially as he mentioned that he hardly dare raise his eyes from the ground when out walking for fear of this happening. Lots of people suffer from all kinds of phobias brought on by situations from their past and I was simply trying to be helpful that's all!

I must stress that I certainly do not believe for one moment that ALL people who have a general dislike of dogs (or cats even) need or require counselling!!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Sue


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## Nickynoo

Hi Briarose,
You are not disagreeing with me if you read my post at least 4 people did not pick up after their dogs on the dog walk of a CC site in one weekend
I agree more people than ever pick up after their dogs just the same as more people wear seatbelts or don't drink and drive than in the 1970's .
My point is that it is the minority of people who allow their dogs to poop on playing fields beaches and promenades and don't pick it up will get dogs banned from these areas all year round. 
The whole debate of wether or not actually putting biodegradable excrement in a plastic bag and putting it in landfill is a whole different topic 
My point is what is socially acceptable in todays society and we dog lovers tread a very thin line . there are a lot of anti dog councils and lobbyists out there just waiting for an excuse to bring in a whole new series of dog control orders into law. I'm not talking about just dog mess but general uncontrolled dog behavoiur jumping up at children chasing joggers cyclists etc . We dog ownrs are all responsible but as usual it is the minority who spoil things for everyone else.


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## littlenell

I have a confession to make about dog poop...I have on occasion been known to pick up poop that was NOT generated by our guys. I also do the big gob approach and wander up saying " HERE, have this one if you have run out". We have increased our tally of bags carried on person to 6 after a record 5 poop walk along the beach near Colchester...

As for barking, our lad is just 9 months and has to experience different things to know how to behave. We try and cover every option but sometimes he is just a pup, and engages gob before brain...more annoying for us is hearing somebodies tv blasting out britains got talent at 100db...

oh and we use biodegradable bags...and when at home, our worm bin gets well fed...


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## Briarose

Hi Nickynoo I am not saying that no one ever leaves dog mess..........I wasn't where you were this weekend to witness what you did or didn't see :wink:

When I stated that I disagree it was more to do with this 


> It is just a shame that mans best friend for over 14 thousand years is being let down by his best friend who is unwilling & too lazy to educate him how to live in our modern society and to pick up what he leaves behind.
> I rest my case with great sadness


 I an not saying that every dog owner is good or bad, and I suspect that right now there are an awful lot of dog owners out there that have SOME dogs as a fashion accessory but thats another story. IMHO though the vast majority of dog owners do pick up what the doggie leaves behind.


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## Briarose

> more annoying for us is hearing somebodies tv blasting out britains got talent at 100db


 I like it :wink: your post that is :lol:


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## Sonesta

richardjames said:


> Sonesta - I like your new Avatar - took me a while to recognise who it was


Hi Richard,

Glad you like the new avatar. 

I changed it for the 2 following reasons:

1) My MHF subscritpion expired last week and I couldn't get back into the forum until I had coughed up my annual subsciption fee. Anyway, when I did renew it and I logged back in again - my avatar had disappeared! Lord knows where I originally found that first avatar but I think I just came across it one time after a bit of googling around! Sadly, it's now got lost somewhere in cyber space! LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

2) To those that don't know, I have now got a bit of a reputation earned at the last 2 MHF rallies we've attended and subsequently, after my party piece comedy impression of Peter Kay's "Its Raining" I have now been given that slogan as some kind of catchphrase! I decided my new avatar was quite apt under the circumstances! :lol:

Sue

PS I was under the influence of a few glasses of red wine at the time, so don't for gawds sake anyone, please ever ask me for a repeat peformance!!!! Hee hee! :lol: :lol:

SORRY FOLKS FOR GOING SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC BUT I THOUGHT IT ONLY POLITE TO ANSWER RICHARD.


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## Sonesta

ThursdaysChild said:


> I think, Sue, that you have underlined my comment. When one dog barks, especially at night, it sets off every other dog withing earshot.
> And you surely don't mean that "showing tolerance" = " putting up with it " ?
> I go away to get the kind of peace and quiet which modern urban life cannot provide. That includes undisturbed sleep. Barking ( and that includes yapping ) ruins it.
> I look forward to the day when a dog owner knocks on my door to apologise for my having been disturbed by the noise his dog(s) have made in the night.


Of course when I said "show tolerance" I did not mean anyone should have to accept or put up with any kind of anti social behaviour - but I do think one has to expect a certain amount of acceptable noise levels when staying on campsites. 8O

Dogs will bark, children at play will giggle and screech, lawn mowers will mow and human beings will laugh and chatter! We cannot have total peace and quiet, it just isn't realistic - but we can and do expect people to behave considerately and to behave in a fashion that is respectful of others!

All I can say is that if anyone is allowing their dog or dogs to bark incessantly, especially throughout the night, thus preventing their fellow campers from sleeping, then of course this is inconsideration at it highest level and definitely should NOT be tolerated under any circumstances! :evil:

Thankfully, we have never witnessed such ignorant behaviour wherever we have stayed - so I don't know if it's us who is lucky or you who is unlucky but whenever we have stopped on a campsite, we have only ever come across decent folk, just out to have an enjoyable break away! 

Mind you, I must confess we are not campsite lovers if I am being totally frank and we much prefer to wildcamp in out the way idyllic locations! There is nothing more exhilarating than waking up in some stunning location with not another soul in sight!  Take my advice ThursdaysChild and if you really yearn for total peace and quiet, then if you haven't already done so, then try wildcamping ........ that way, I promise you, you will enjoy the best nights sleep ever! Unless of course you spend the whole night lying awake worrying about being in total isolation! :wink:

Sue


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## Zozzer

Sonesta said:


> Zozzer said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you respect my views on dogs why, are you asking me justify them.?
> I think your being a little one sided. The only concession I would be prepared to accept, is that like shops and supermarkets, I would allow a dog that is used as a guide to assist a blind person.
> 
> The CC must have been getting a lot of complaints for them to have a survey on the views of the membership.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear Zozzer I am certainly not asking you to justify your views at all, far from it in fact. I was merely asking if there was a particular reason or incident that has happened that may have caused you to feel this way?
> 
> I do know that very often some kind of negative or traumatic encounter with a dog can leave it's mark on a person and the last post from Steve is a prime example of how a negative experience can affect a person! I myself, spent many, many years being absolutely terrified around any dog, especially large dogs that were not kept on a lead! It all stemmed from my childhood: As a small child I used to love watching Lassie and all her adventures on the TV and that dog was such a clever, gentle and brave dog who saved her owner and others from so many disastrous and dangerous situations! Oh how I longed to have a loyal and faithful dog like her to love and look after my family and me!
> 
> Anyway, one day, I think I was about 6 years old at the time, my mum and I were out walking and we ventured past a house not far from our home, where to my absolute amazement, there suddenly before my very eyes there was "Lassie" the wonder dog standing there for all the world to see! There she was, like something straight off my TV screen, standing on her hind legs, with paws resting on the top of a small garden gate! Obviously to the innocent eyes of an excited child, I immediately mistook the dog to be the real and genuine "Lassie" and I could not believe what I was seeing! Without any warning I wrenched my hand free from my mums hand and rushed over excitedly to stroke my 4 legged hero - to my horror "Lassie" responded not in the friendly "Lassie" way that I'd expected but instead she snarled visciously, bared her teeth and bit me! I was only gate high in height, so my little nose took the brunt of the dog's huge wolf like teeth and I screamed in terror as I recall seeing all this bright red blood gushing from my face. The pain was intense and I just remember my poor mum being beside herself, not knowing what to do or who to turn to. I was rushed to our local hospital to be examined and I remember being hysterical as they stitched up my wound and insisted on giving me a tetanus jab! Oh it was all so traumatic for a tiny little girl and for years and years after that I went into a total panic if ever I was in the vicinity of any dog. If a strange dog ever came anywhere near me I would become totally hysterical! However, as I grew older and experienced more positive encounters with dogs, my fears thankfully began to gradually subside and although I was never a real dog lover I was no longer the nervous wreck around them that I once was! However, I am now the proud owner of 2 little white fluffy balls of joy called Candy Kisses and Buddy and myself and my husband adore these 2 sweet little dogs. To be honest I could not imagine our lives without them now and we love them to pieces! However, even today some 47 years later, my traumatic experience still remains with me and the scar under my right nostril is a constant reminder of my terrifying ordeal! Even now, if I were out and about and a strange dog that I did not know was wandering around unleashed (especially a very large dog) and it came bounding over towards me I would still break out in a cold sweat and feel my heart start to thump! I suppose that deep down fear will always stay with me and Iguess I will never feel 100% comfortable when faced with that situation.
> 
> So Zozzer, I do understand how a past experience can affect a person and yes I do feel I am looking at this issue from all sides and not just from one side as you suggest I am doing in your previous post! However, even when my own personal fear of dogs was at its peak, I was still capable of looking at the subject objectively and would never totally disregard other people's views, thoughts and opinions and no way would I have ever advocated the blanket ban that you and Steve would apparently would like to see implemented! Therefore, in my defence, I must say that I most certainly do totally and absolutely respect your views on this subject and I hope you in return can and do also respect mine and other peoples too?
> 
> As for all dogs being banned from campsites (apart from guide dogs) then please may I point out that there are many, many people out there in society, both young and old alike, whose dogs are equally as important to their lives as they are to a blind persons and although they may not need a dog for mobility purposes, psychologically they may depend on them enormously! For instance, being without the companionship and love from their dog would probably make life quite unbearable for so many lonely people and to part such people from their dog or dogs could cause untold unhappiness and heartache. We meet so many people when we are away in our MH who have lost their husband or wife and their loyal and faithful dog is often the only thing that gives them a purpose in life. Without their dog to care for, many grieving partners would not want to even get out of bed in the morning and we see this kind of sad situation all too often during our travels. People like this often meet likeminded people when out taking their dog or dogs for their daily strolls and for many, their dog is their only lifeline with the outside world! Childless couples often substitute their maternal/paternal needs with a little dog and for these couples their dog becomes the focus of their lives! I believe to prevent all these people and many more besides from enjoying their camping holidays with their canine friends alongside would be so cruel and surely nobody advocates such extreme measures do they?
> 
> Hospitals, children's wards and care homes often invite dogs into their establishments or onto their wards in order to help perk up or bring a little smile to the faces of ill or elderly patients and petting a dog has been scientifically proven to be therapeutic to we mere humans!
> 
> Surely, bearing all this in mind, we can all come to a solution that takes into account all people and all views and do we really have to campaign for a total blanket ban???? You may not like dogs Zozzer and yes I think everyone should respect that - but I urge you to consider the feelings of those amongst us who may not view all dogs in quite the same way as you do?
> 
> In conclusion - I think the introduction of dog free zones and dog free campsites would be an excellent idea and that way, we can all live together happily knowing that we are all being catered for and that everyone has a certain degree of choice! Mind you - its sods law that it wont suit everyone and no matter what we introduce it wont satisfy him or her! There will always be someone, who wants it all their way and sadly the word compromise is NOT part of their vocabulary! :roll:
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

No childhood trauma's or anything like that. I simply don't like dogs, or to put it another way, I don't like pets at all. As for comprimising, I've been doing that all my life, but when I'm asked for my opinion, then I tell them.

So why do some people and I mean dog owners, always feel personally insulted by someone telling the truth.


----------



## Caggsie

Being a child camper and now an adult I too in the last 18nths not experienced anything that I feel that I have had to complain about.

Sonesta Quote
"Dogs will bark, children at play will giggle and screech, lawn mowers will mow and human beings will laugh and chatter! We cannot have total peace and quiet, it just isn't realistic - but we can and do expect people to behave considerately and to behave in a fashion that is respectful of others!" 

People get up at an unearthly hour to go etc - does it bother me no. I might in the futere have to do the same to catch a ferry/get home in an emergency etc. For me it is tolerance. Children make a noise - that is part of their makeup. I have a grandchild, and whilst I don't have him in tow I don't make an issue that other kids make a noise, he might be the one to do it next visit. I have 2 dogs, which will on occasions make a noise - we don't encourage them it's their reaction to something, some one else, a sudden noise, Do I blaime the other noise, no I make my dogs stop. I don't like hearing someone elses tv, thats life! I don't like people in their Awning having a good giggle, enjoying themselves - just cause I'm not, should I moan, no thats life!.

My experience of CC sites is that come 10ish there is silence, peace and quiet, thats why I use them more than any other company. There are no revellers coming home from a good night out at 2 in the morning, no teenagers on the corner gossiping till gawd knows when.

I have so far not had a bad experience on a CC site, lucky? I don't think so. Some sites I haven't liked - not a dog owners fault, childs fault, or a wardens fault, who's fault, mine.

Horses for courses - I will get my tin hat lol

karen


----------



## richardjames

Well put Karen


----------



## Sonesta

Zozzer said:


> No childhood trauma's or anything like that. I simply don't like dogs, or to put it another way, I don't like pets at all. As for comprimising, I've been doing that all my life, but when I'm asked for my opinion, then I tell them.
> 
> So why do some people and I mean dog owners, always feel personally insulted by someone telling the truth.


Glad to hear you have no childhood dramas or traumas that adversely affects your relationship with pets. 

To be honest I really don't think anyone is "personally insulted" Zozzer and I know for certain that I most definitely am not! Nope there's nowt that you've said in your posts that has insulted me on a personal level and I cannot see why anything that you've written would insult anyone personally!

If you telling the truth is you disclosing how much you dislike dogs and all other pets, then I'm sure that is blatantly obvious to anyone who reads your posts, therefore, I don't think your revelation will come as much of a suprise to anyone who has been following this thread! :wink:

People have simply seen fit to respond to your posts, just like you have responded to theirs but surely they have as much right to air their opinions on this subject as you have? If some folk don't agree with you, then just like you, some members may decide to say so quite openly but what's the big deal with that? You admit that if someone asks for your opinion you give it, well just remember Zozzer it works both ways you know! :roll:

Let me ask you a really silly question: When someone disagrees or challenges your views and tells you their opinion, do you yourself object to them "telling the truth" (your words NOT mine) and if so, are you left feeling "personally insulted" by this fact? I doubt it very much Zozzer and anyone who is "personally insulted" just because others don't share their opinions really does need to chill out! 8O

Sue


----------



## loughrigg

I don't own a dog, but equally don't have any particular objection to them, whether on camp sites or not. However, I do get irritated by the minority of dog owners that just don't seem to care.

At the beginning of this summer, my wife was learning to ride a bike. A short distance from us is a large area of open land and that used to be part of Shoebury Garrison - ideal for novice cyclists, we thought.

From one of the parking areas, a rough track of about 50 yards leads to the main area of open ground. Now I have a fairly strong stomach, but on some days during the summer, the stench from the dogs mess along that track almost made me throw up.

On several occasions we saw vehicles arrive (on one occasion, an estate car with four dogs) the doors were opened and that was it - the owners stayed with the cars puffing on a *** or reading the paper while the dogs scampered off down the track. Some minutes later, the dogs returned, were loaded back in the car and off they went. From the behaviour of the dogs, this was quite normal.

You may think I am exagerating, but that is absolutely true.

I soon became the owner of a dedicated set of cleaning brushes because it was rare to arrive home with tyres free of dogs mess. I just cannot comprehend why some people think that sort of behaviour is acceptable.

Mike


----------



## Sonesta

Caggsie said:


> Being a child camper and now an adult I too in the last 18nths not experienced anything that I feel that I have had to complain about.
> 
> Sonesta Quote
> "Dogs will bark, children at play will giggle and screech, lawn mowers will mow and human beings will laugh and chatter! We cannot have total peace and quiet, it just isn't realistic - but we can and do expect people to behave considerately and to behave in a fashion that is respectful of others!"
> 
> People get up at an unearthly hour to go etc - does it bother me no. I might in the futere have to do the same to catch a ferry/get home in an emergency etc. For me it is tolerance. Children make a noise - that is part of their makeup. I have a grandchild, and whilst I don't have him in tow I don't make an issue that other kids make a noise, he might be the one to do it next visit. I have 2 dogs, which will on occasions make a noise - we don't encourage them it's their reaction to something, some one else, a sudden noise, Do I blaime the other noise, no I make my dogs stop. I don't like hearing someone elses tv, thats life! I don't like people in their Awning having a good giggle, enjoying themselves - just cause I'm not, should I moan, no thats life!.
> 
> My experience of CC sites is that come 10ish there is silence, peace and quiet, thats why I use them more than any other company. There are no revellers coming home from a good night out at 2 in the morning, no teenagers on the corner gossiping till gawd knows when.
> 
> I have so far not had a bad experience on a CC site, lucky? I don't think so. Some sites I haven't liked - not a dog owners fault, childs fault, or a wardens fault, who's fault, mine.
> 
> Horses for courses - I will get my tin hat lol
> 
> karen


Here! Here! Karen and I could not agree more. 

Excellently put post and very well said!!! 

Sue


----------



## Sonesta

loughrigg said:


> I don't own a dog, but equally don't have any particular objection to them, whether on camp sites or not. However, I do get irritated by the minority of dog owners that just don't seem to care.
> 
> At the beginning of this summer, my wife was learning to ride a bike. A short distance from us is a large area of open land and that used to be part of Shoebury Garrison - ideal for novice cyclists, we thought.
> 
> From one of the parking areas, a rough track of about 50 yards leads to the main area of open ground. Now I have a fairly strong stomach, but on some days during the summer, the stench from the dogs mess along that track almost made me throw up.
> 
> On several occasions we saw vehicles arrive (on one occasion, an estate car with four dogs) the doors were opened and that was it - the owners stayed with the cars puffing on a *** or reading the paper while the dogs scampered off down the track. Some minutes later, the dogs returned, were loaded back in the car and off they went. From the behaviour of the dogs, this was quite normal.
> 
> You may think I am exagerating, but that is absolutely true.
> 
> I soon became the owner of a dedicated set of cleaning brushes because it was rare to arrive home with tyres free of dogs mess. I just cannot comprehend why some people think that sort of behaviour is acceptable.
> 
> Mike


Mike what that family did is inexcuseable and I would never defend such ignorant behaviour and I too am deeply angered by such conduct. :twisted:

However, if that had been a car full of children running amock and vandalising the area would you then tar all parents and children with the same brush??? Obviously not - but the same goes for dog owners too. The couldn't care less and the irresponsible spoil it for the responsible ones and as usual, it is always the innocent that pay the price for the guilty.

Stricter dog laws are required and until those that cause the problems are made examples of, then we decent dog owners, will be forever held accountable for the problems these ignorant folk create! 

Sue


----------



## peedee

I am not lily white when it comes to clearing up after my dog, it all depends where he does it. Naturally on a campsite I would and fully expect every other dog owner to do the same. I rarely use the dog walks, perhaps last thing at night. I much prefer a longer walk off site, better for my health and better exercise for my dog. I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions. 

peedee


----------



## patp

I have written to my MP on the subject of dogs and encourage you all to do the same. The growing number of irresponsible dog owners are going to have a serious impact on the rest of us.

My suggestion to my MP was to start right at the beginning with breeders. There must, in my opinion, be some sort of control over who breeds dogs and then sells them.

My main concern was with the health of pedigree dogs but it all comes under the same umbrella. 

Here's what I suggested: -

All dogs should be microchipped before leaving the breeder. If, at any time in its life, the dog suffers from a hereditary disease or causes a public nuisance then the breeder would be called to account in some way. In the case of hereditary disease they should pick up the vet's bill perhaps. In the case of anti social behaviour be it aggression or fouling then a fine or taking the dog back from its irresponsible owner might be the answer. 

This would have the effect, I believe, of seriously reducing the number of irresponsible breeders. This, in turn, would reduce the number of dogs available to the general public. Those breeders left would then be able to choose the best possible home for their puppies where they would be properly socialised and whos owners would make sure they never caused a nuisance. 

I commend my case to the house :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## monkton

Good grief!! When I posted this link I didn't expect to be posting on the thread ten pages later. Perhaps I should have titled the thread as:

DOGGERGATE :lol:


----------



## 96299

peedee said:


> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee


Why not.? :?

This is the problem and mentality we are having with our local footpath. It is lined with dog crap because of people who think it's ok to let it happen on a country path and who would never pick it up if they walked their dogs on the street, so they go over there to do it. At least by letting them crap without picking up down the path they wont get caught out, and to the few that do pick up only to throw it in the trees for decoration, unbelievable. :evil:

steve


----------



## steco1958

> peedee wrote: ‹ Select ›
> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee


I have to strongly disagree, all dog poo should be picked up, and binned in the appropriate place, not left for some other unfortunate to step in, no matter how remote !!

I have a dog and walk her on foot paths, open ground, and beaches (when near one), and I hate seeing dog poo on the floor.


----------



## CliveMott

Before I cut the grass outside my house the first job is to remove the dog dirts from it first. The rotary mower seems to intensify the smell.
But why is it that whenever I am looking the neighbours who sometimes let they dogs "do" on the grass are quipped with polythene bags and pick it up.
But I temporarilly fitted a covert CCTV camera and now know which neighbours only pick up when someone is looking! And a blonde as well!

So much for responsibility!

C.


----------



## ThursdaysChild

Indeed, Mr Monkton ! Ten pages .. and more to come ?

Two or three anti's and the whole of the doggie universe feels the need to post at length.

Methinks they do protest too much.


----------



## Zozzer

How can dog owners be expected to pick after their dogs on a campsite when the same people can't be bothered to pickup after there dogs anywhere else.

Next time your waiting for a ferry, take a look at the number of people taking their dog for a walk before boarding.

Now whilst I have made my feeling know about dogs, I have also have to agree that many people enjoy the company of a dog. With that in mind, should the CC institute a policy of only allowing dogs on sites when they are under the supervision of a member of the CC. None Members being barred from bringing dogs. 

Any complaints to the site could be placed on CC database, and subsequently should a members dog then repeatly become a nuisance for what ever reason, then the member will have their membership terminated and not be allowed to bring dogs onto any CC site.


----------



## steco1958

Zozzer,

Can we have the same ruling for noisy kids !!!

Or perhaps noisy snorers

Get real, we are controlled enough by the authorities, if there is a reason to complain about a dog, then complain at the time to the site warden, and let them deal with it, there are rules in the CC about dogs and dog fouling, but there is sometimes a lack of response from other members, and therefore the site manager does not get to hear of the complaint.


----------



## CliveMott

Should CC members be "chipped" perhaps?


----------



## Sonesta

monkton said:


> Good grief!! When I posted this link I didn't expect to be posting on the thread ten pages later. Perhaps I should have titled the thread as:
> 
> DOGGERGATE :lol:


Your post has made me titter Monkton. :lol:

Mind you I don't know about calling it "DOGGERGATE" I think after 10 pages and several days "SAME SH*T DIFFERENT DAY" may be a more apt title! Hee Hee! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sue


----------



## Grandma

I'm with Chigman on this one. I only tolerate dogs when I know them quite well. Quite frankly they scare me. Last week I accosted a lady with two dogs on our school playing field. Signs up saying do not excersise your dog here etc. I had just seen her dog off the lead squat and poo. When eventually I got close enough to remonstrate with her she was away from the area of poo. She said she was a responsible dog owner and always picked up the poo! Pointing the poo out she said it was not hers!
When I visit a friend and stay on their drive her dog likes coming in the Van. I do not allow it to lick me (ugh) and it seems to know it's place. I would not dream of taking it on holiday. The family who owns it took it camping once and left it tied up in the awning whilst they went for a shower. When they came back the Neighbours children had gone in and let it off the lead saying it was cruel to tie it up.
Let responsible owners camp on sites, charge them and if the warden gets any complaints the Club HQ should be informed and a warning letter sent.


----------



## MalanCris

Thanks Monkton, I have completed the questionnaire.
Why don't people live and let live? There will always be disagreements between folk regarding dogs but I have been bothered more on numerous occasions by other peoples children, and I haven't started a poll on whether or not they should be banned from sites!!


----------



## peedee

Chigman said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Why not.? :?
> 
> steve
Click to expand...

If its actually on the footpath I would remove it but what is the point in cleaning up in a cow pat, sheep s**t strewn field. Today I walked a well used path and I counted 7 neatly plastic wrapped packages of the stuff preserved for possibly ever all within 500 yards of the entrance from the road and a doggy bin! Much Better to flick to one side, its gone in a few days, or bury. I also cannot abide it glued to paved surfaces or actually on a footpath even through a cow pat field.

peedee


----------



## 96299

peedee said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Why not.? :?
> 
> steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If its actually on the footpath I would remove it but what is the point in cleaning up in a cow pat, sheep s**t strewn field.
> peedee
Click to expand...

Because it is good practice my friend. :wink: Besides, you cant compare horse manure or cow dung to dogs mess, they are already part of the countryside and your dogs crap aint. :evil:

steve


----------



## MHv2

I don’t have any problem with well behaved dogs (or owners come to that!) but what I don’t think should be allowed is for dog owners to erect a fence around their pitch in which they allow their dogs to roam (and foul presumably) freely. I most recently observed this on the CC site in Henley.


----------



## peedee

Chigman said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Why not.? :?
> 
> steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If its actually on the footpath I would remove it but what is the point in cleaning up in a cow pat, sheep s**t strewn field.
> peedee
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is good practice my friend. :wink: Besides, you cant compare horse manure or cow dung to dogs mess, they are already part of the countryside and your dogs crap aint. :evil:
> 
> steve
Click to expand...

maybe so, but dogs were originally wild animals and it is no more offensive :wink:

peedee


----------



## camper69

peedee said:


> maybe so, but dogs were originally wild animals and it is no more offensive :wink:
> 
> peedee


Oh but it is.

Derek


----------



## wakk44

ThursdaysChild said:


> Two or three anti's and the whole of the doggie universe feels the need to post at length.
> Methinks they do protest too much.


The above comment is why all dog lovers and owners should make sure that their dogs are completely under control and all dog mess cleaned up at all times.

Dog owners must not give the anti-dog lobby any grounds whatsoever to complain because two or three antis that shout vociferously will no doubt lead to more rules and restrictions imposed on us,and I am convinced that is the reason that the caravan club has commisioned the dog survey/poll.


----------



## peedee

camper69 said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe so, but dogs were originally wild animals and it is no more offensive :wink:
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but it is.
> 
> Derek
Click to expand...

Oh! so you would prefer to tread in a cow pat then?

peedee


----------



## camper69

peedee said:


> Oh! so you would prefer to tread in a cow pat then?
> 
> peedee


Yes cows don't eat meat which is what makes most dog poo smell the way it does.

Derek


----------



## Annsman

The following people should be banned from any sites where I am.

People with children, (except those that are amusing, pleasant and polite.)

People with dogs, (other than mine of course.)

People with vans better than mine. (That would be no one of course.)

Caravans, (except those that provide hours of amusement putting up awnings, levelling their vans, unloading their cars and then two days later doing the same in reverse!)

Ugly people, (well who wants to spend a week-end looking at them?)

People who play load music, (except for those listening to Blues music, The Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin of course)

And finally intolerant people who can't stand anyone doing anything that they think is objectionable or just plain wrong, (Opps! that's me then!)


----------



## wakk44

Annsman said:


> The following people should be banned from any sites where I am.
> 
> People with children, (except those that are amusing, pleasant and polite.)
> 
> People with dogs, (other than mine of course.)
> 
> People with vans better than mine. (That would be no one of course.)
> 
> Caravans, (except those that provide hours of amusement putting up awnings, levelling their vans, unloading their cars and then two days later doing the same in reverse!)
> 
> Ugly people, (well who wants to spend a week-end looking at them?)
> 
> People who play load music, (except for those listening to Blues music, The Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin of course)
> 
> And finally intolerant people who can't stand anyone doing anything that they think is objectionable or just plain wrong, (Opps! that's me then!)


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Hovis

Done it also. What gets up my nose is the blantnat disreagrd of " Dogs on Lead" - a conventional lead yet, but not a 20 footer!!!!
Hovis :x


----------



## 96299

peedee said:


> camper69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe so, but dogs were originally wild animals and it is no more offensive :wink:
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but it is.
> 
> Derek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh! so you would prefer to tread in a cow pat then?
> 
> peedee
Click to expand...

Well I would certainly rather tread in cow pat for sure. It's just grass afterall. 8) Plus they dont do it on public footpaths or campsites.

I would gladly pay double the membership fee for cc & c&cc if they had "no dog" sites. I feel that strongly about it.

steve

steve


----------



## peedee

camper69 said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh! so you would prefer to tread in a cow pat then?
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Yes cows don't eat meat which is what makes most dog poo smell the way it does.
> Derek
Click to expand...

Like all dogs mine eats grass too :wink:



Chigman said:


> they dont do it on public footpaths or campsites.


Well they must have have B****y big dogs and rabbits round here!



Chigman said:


> I would gladly pay double the membership fee for cc & c&cc if they had "no dog" sites. I feel that strongly about it.


That would really limit you and if they banned dogs altogether, you would most certainly would pay much more to cover the losses of all those that would desert the clubs. In over 20 years of using club sites, I have only very occasional had problems with dogs, certainly nothing to get annoyed about.

In our local center we used to run rallies in schools and attendance was very high 50 plus vans on occasions. Schools rightly banned dogs from their grounds. It didn't work for the clubs, attendance dropped like a stone and schools lost a source of extra income.

peedee


----------



## clodhopper2006

camper69 said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh! so you would prefer to tread in a cow pat then?
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Yes cows don't eat meat which is what makes most dog poo smell the way it does.
> 
> Derek
Click to expand...

Dogs eat allsorts = poo that smells bad and is unpleasent to stand in
Cows eat grass = poo that smels bad and is unpleasent to stand in

Sorry, cant see any difference.


----------



## zappy61

Chigman said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I much prefer walks across countryside using unpaved routes and it is not always necessary to clear up after him on such occasions.
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Why not.? :?
> 
> steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If its actually on the footpath I would remove it but what is the point in cleaning up in a cow pat, sheep s**t strewn field.
> peedee
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is good practice my friend. :wink: Besides, you cant compare horse manure or cow dung to dogs mess, they are already part of the countryside and your dogs crap aint. :evil:
> 
> steve
Click to expand...

What about foxes or badgers?

Graham


----------



## Nickynoo

wakk44 said:


> ThursdaysChild said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two or three anti's and the whole of the doggie universe feels the need to post at length.
> Methinks they do protest too much.
> 
> 
> 
> The above comment is why all dog lovers and owners should make sure that their dogs are completely under control and all dog mess cleaned up at all times.
> 
> Dog owners must not give the anti-dog lobby any grounds whatsoever to complain because two or three antis that shout vociferously will no doubt lead to more rules and restrictions imposed on us,and I am convinced that is the reason that the caravan club has commisioned the dog survey/poll.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point in my previous posts


----------



## craigy

No offence but how about making all sites steve free zones :lol:


----------



## Briarose

craigy said:


> No offence but how about making all sites steve free zones :lol:


ROFL :wink: :lol:


----------



## AL8

Well, firstly thanks to monkton for the original post - I completed the survey that otherwise I would not have seen.

Having read every post in this thread then walked the dogs thinking a lot about the thread, I decided to post this reply.

IMHO:
1. There are already procedures in place to deal with anti-social dog owners both in public places and/or on CC and C&CC site. We do not need more laws/rules etc just at the mo, let's start by enforcing the measures already in place. BUT these are just about never enforced. Who has ever heard of anyone being officially reprimanded for not picking up their dog's mess, let alone the (at least) one dog owner per street that never picks up?

2. If you are a dog owner you MUST pick up your dog(s) every mess no matter where it is. Every poo, no matter where it lies, just adds fuel to the antis - And who could argue against them? Yes, sometimes it's a pain - when there are no bins for miles etc, but the alternative will be too terrible to contemplate. No Poo = Less Antis.

3. No Smoke Without Fire. The Writings On The Wall. A Slippery Slope. Call it what you will, but the CC has a reason for the survey. I doubt very much that it's to do dog owners any favours.

4. We live in a country ruled by accountants looking at the bottom line..... Camping sites are no different to any other business........ This year most sites must have been running at near capacity (some impossible to get onto)....... Last minute weekend breaks on Club sites are just about impossible..... Sub-£20 per unit per night could be seen as a cheap night away...... In other leisure time activities, people, generally, are willing to pay vast sums of money on their past-times..... Campsite Owners see none of the £10,000’s that we spend on Caravans or MHs….

5. The few ALWAYS ruin it for the many.

Add that all together & a cynic could come to the conclusion that we might be looking at the following on the horizon:
a. price rises for all
b. more restrictions on dogs
c. additional charges for dogs (added to the existing extra charges for awnings, certain types of pitches, extra persons etc etc)
d. introduction & premium prices for ‘up-market’ sites, etc, et.c.

So there is my take on the survey. I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## Zozzer

CliveMott said:


> Should CC members be "chipped" perhaps?


Chipping the owners would be a brilliant idea.
Sensors on the gate could detect you when you arrive and open the gate.
Ideal for late arrivals.

Now there a thought, why can't the CC install ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) instead of all these silly keys and code numbers.


----------



## ramblingon

Chigman said:


> I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me.
> 
> steve


Nothing personal I know it takes all sorts to make a world
But why not get a "I hate dogs sticker" for your window, you won't get a dog with in a mile of your van, I know most dog lovers consider dog haters a bit unfathomable and strange- we tend to keep far away from those that don't love dogs! :animaldog: :grommit: :animaldog:

I wish there were some no dog sites just for people like you...


----------



## 96299

Tell me-why do I have to like dogs? Do all of you doggy owners like cats I wonder? In any case, I dont hate dogs, it's more of a phobia with me as I have already said in an earlier post if you could of been bothered to read it. I dont even like their hair getting onto my clothes, so it's not just down to their mess which is an owner problem anyway, not the dogs fault at all.

steve (free)


----------



## patp

Good post AL8. I agree with all you say.

Just on point 1. 
I did meet someone who lived in a part of London where they had a fine of £1,000 for non compliance with the poop scoop law. The authority did enforce because it was a good revenue for them :wink: 
This lady had two Chinese Crested dogs and she was so paranoid about picking up after them, in order to avoid the fine, that the dogs had become terrified of her when they needed to poo and had taken to waiting until she left the house :lol: 
She told me that the wardens were known to hide behind bushes and fine people who were still chatting with friends a few seconds after the dog had deposited, even though the owner had bag in hand ready to scoop.

Now obviously those wardens were a bit too enthusiastic but it just goes to show the effect a huge fine has on behaviour. The streets and parks were, apparently, immaculate.


----------



## sallytrafic

This survey isn't about dogs 

its about screwing more money out of 'members'


----------



## Zebedee

sallytrafic said:


> This survey isn't about dogs
> 
> its about screwing more money out of 'members'


Spot on Frank, thank the Lord someone else has tumbled to it. :wink: 

Produce a survey with a very varied range of questions so the "analysis" can be slanted any way they want.

Give the hint that dogs may be banned, and a lot of dog owners will say "_If it's a choice between banning or paying for the dog, we would be happy to pay the money_." Guess which half of that sentence will be missed out of the selective quote they publish in their comic?? 8O 8O 8O

QED - full justification for sticking a £3 per night charge on dogs, and the members can't complain because, "_They all had the chance to air their opinions, and we have acted upon the wishes of the vast majority who responded_."

I reckon the CC have been taking lessons from the government!! :lol: :lol:

Dave


----------



## Zebedee

Chigman said:


> Tell me-why do I have to like dogs? Do all of you doggy owners like cats I wonder? In any case, I dont hate dogs, it's more of a phobia with me as I have already said in an earlier post if you could of been bothered to read it. I dont even like their hair getting onto my clothes, so it's not just down to their mess which is an owner problem anyway, not the dogs fault at all.
> 
> steve (free)


Hi Steve

Fair comment - though I do quite like cats in fact. It's our terrier who hates them . . . nearly as much as you do!! 8O :lol: :lol:

(That was a leg-pull! :wink: :lol: )

Unfortunately you gave no reason for wanting dogs banned from all sites in your first post. "_I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me. _"

If anyone has read only that far, it's no great surprise that they might get a bit hot under the collar and respond before reading the real reason you are uncomfortable with dogs. :?

My brother is just like you in fact - he was "attacked" by a dog when he was about 6 years old and has never been comfortable with them since then. Not seriously in fact, as the dog only jumped up at him and pinched the cake he was eating.

Scared the nappies off him though 8O , and he has never quite recovered. :lol: :lol:

Dave


----------



## 96299

Zebedee said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me-why do I have to like dogs? Do all of you doggy owners like cats I wonder? In any case, I dont hate dogs, it's more of a phobia with me as I have already said in an earlier post if you could of been bothered to read it. I dont even like their hair getting onto my clothes, so it's not just down to their mess which is an owner problem anyway, not the dogs fault at all.
> 
> steve (free)
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Steve
> 
> Fair comment - though I do quite like cats in fact. It's our terrier who hates them . . . nearly as much as you do!! 8O :lol: :lol:
> 
> (That was a leg-pull! :wink: :lol: )
> 
> Unfortunately you gave no reason for wanting dogs banned from all sites in your first post. "_I know I will be unpopular but, I wish they would make all sites NO dogs. That's just me. _"
> 
> If anyone has read only that far, it's no great surprise that they might get a bit hot under the collar and respond before reading the real reason you are uncomfortable with dogs. :?
> 
> My brother is just like you in fact - he was "attacked" by a dog when he was about 6 years old and has never been comfortable with them since then. Not seriously in fact, as the dog only jumped up at him and pinched the cake he was eating.
> 
> Scared the nappies off him though 8O , and he has never quite recovered. :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

True Dave, I didn't give my reasons then but they are in subsequent posts if peeps would care to read them.

My Dad has two Golden retrievers, and because of them I only visit him about once a year,and even that takes some doing. They get hair all over you, they lick and the whole experience for me is not a nice one, so I stay away.

steve


----------



## Zebedee

Chigman said:


> My Dad has two Golden retrievers, and because of them I only visit him about once a year,and even that takes some doing.
> steve


Brilliant Steve. What a cracking excuse! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:

The ancient Mother-in-Law has two Bulldogs!

What a great excuse!! :lol: :lol:

Dave :lol:


----------



## clodhopper2006

Thing is though Chigman you managed to ailienate so many people with your first sentence. It's no surprise to me then that people didn't read any more from you.


----------



## Sonesta

Zebedee said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> This survey isn't about dogs
> 
> its about screwing more money out of 'members'
> 
> 
> 
> Spot on Frank, thank the Lord someone else has tumbled to it. :wink:
> 
> Produce a survey with a very varied range of questions so the "analysis" can be slanted any way they want.
> 
> Give the hint that dogs may be banned, and a lot of dog owners will say "_If it's a choice between banning or paying for the dog, we would be happy to pay the money_." Guess which half of that sentence will be missed out of the selective quote they publish in their comic?? 8O 8O 8O
> 
> QED - full justification for sticking a £3 per night charge on dogs, and the members can't complain because, "_They all had the chance to air their opinions, and we have acted upon the wishes of the vast majority who responded_."
> 
> I reckon the CC have been taking lessons from the government!! :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Hi there Dave/Frank,

To be honest I hadn't really looked at it this way before - but after reading both your posts I can see exactly what you both are saying! 8O

Just a thought ....................... if this survey/questionaire does result in the CC and other camping related assosciations introducing far more stricter rules/bans/restrictions/costs on those members with dogs, then maybe all we members who own dogs (and there are a lot of us out there) should all threaten to cancel our memberships????? Obviously the CC would seriously have to rethink their strategies as they will definitely NOT wish to lose such vast revenue will they? So maybe, we members who their new and stricter rules would affect the most, should all vote with our feets! :wink:

Sue


----------



## AL8

Looks like we've ended up with 2 themes in this thread.

The first being that for no particular reason some people don't like dogs - that's life.


But the second is, IMHO, far more important for us ALL.
It's will be the tip of the iceberg.

See previous post at bottom of page 12.

I would not be surprised to see huge increases per unit per night, including awning, 'special' pitch, hook-up, chidren, dog, etc etc in, say, 5 years time.


----------



## 96299

Zebedee said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Dad has two Golden retrievers, and because of them I only visit him about once a year,and even that takes some doing.
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant Steve. What a cracking excuse! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> The ancient Mother-in-Law has two Bulldogs!
> 
> What a great excuse!! :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave :lol:
Click to expand...

Works every time Dave. 8)

steve


----------



## Sonesta

clodhopper2006 said:


> Thing is though Chigman you managed to ailienate so many people with your first sentence. It's no surprise to me then that people didn't read any more from you.


Well I did ................ I read Steve's posts and very soon formed the opinion that his dislike/fear of dogs was proably quite deep rooted. Sadly the only comment I got back in response to my genuine empathy with Steve's phobia was a slightly sarcastic reference (which I think was aimed at me) made in one of Nickynoo's posts! 8O

Sue


----------



## littlenell

The survey can be accessed by anyone, you do not have to be a CC member to undertake it so how will they work out the responses as being a representation of its membership?


----------



## CliffyP

Thanks, I to have posted.

As a dog lover they are a part of my life and I enjoy taking them away with me. I dont like cats in particular but would never do any harm to one and in fact would stroke or play with a cat (I just would not have one). My point being is that I have a distinct mistrust of anyone who does not like animals, If you dont like animals then you dont like people. I can understand peoples logic for not having a cat or a dog, fish, elephant or whatever but the sad  b******s who dont like animals are truly the saddest people in the world, wound up in their own little sad lives. Children cause havoc on sites, biking screaming, crying (usually around everyone elses pitch but their own, whilst mummy and daddy have a nice quiet holiday). But this type of holidaying is all about mucking in, tolerance, getting on and the sad,sad,sad  b******s who want calm quiet and seclusion all the time GO WILD CAMPING away from NORMAL PEOPLE. 
Bet this makes me popular


----------



## 96299

CliffyP said:


> Thanks, I to have posted.
> 
> As a dog lover they are a part of my life and I enjoy taking them away with me. I dont like cats in particular but would never do any harm to one and in fact would stroke or play with a cat (I just would not have one). My point being is that I have a distinct mistrust of anyone who does not like animals, If you dont like animals then you dont like people. I can understand peoples logic for not having a cat or a dog, fish, elephant or whatever but the sad  b******s who dont like animals are truly the saddest people in the world, wound up in their own little sad lives. Children cause havoc on sites, biking screaming, crying (usually around everyone elses pitch but their own, whilst mummy and daddy have a nice quiet holiday). But this type of holidaying is all about mucking in, tolerance, getting on and the sad,sad,sad  b******s who want calm quiet and seclusion all the time GO WILD CAMPING away from NORMAL PEOPLE.
> Bet this makes me popular


Now an animal lover I am  Nature is my thing, but who mentioned not liking other animals in this thread apart from in your post above? I feel the topic is going to run for a little while longer yet. 8O

steve


----------



## CliffyP

Chigman said:


> CliffyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I to have posted.
> 
> As a dog lover they are a part of my life and I enjoy taking them away with me. I dont like cats in particular but would never do any harm to one and in fact would stroke or play with a cat (I just would not have one). My point being is that I have a distinct mistrust of anyone who does not like animals, If you dont like animals then you dont like people. I can understand peoples logic for not having a cat or a dog, fish, elephant or whatever but the sad  b******s who dont like animals are truly the saddest people in the world, wound up in their own little sad lives. Children cause havoc on sites, biking screaming, crying (usually around everyone elses pitch but their own, whilst mummy and daddy have a nice quiet holiday). But this type of holidaying is all about mucking in, tolerance, getting on and the sad,sad,sad  b******s who want calm quiet and seclusion all the time GO WILD CAMPING away from NORMAL PEOPLE.
> Bet this makes me popular
> 
> 
> 
> Now an animal lover I am  Natur is my thing, but who mentioned not liking other animals in this thread apart from in your post above? I feel the topic is going to run for a little while longer yet. 8O
> 
> steve
Click to expand...

Dogs are the closest connection we have with nature and animals, we live with them, work with them, depend on them, the whingers who dont want them in parks or on sites would be only to see one if they were lost up a mountain or had a criminal in their back garden or even had the missfortune to go blind (cut out see bit and put in pleased to have) etc etc. The world would be a far worse place without them, they are more reliable and faithful than people they are companions to thousands, and bring joy to millions, as well as being willing to die in many cases to protect their owners. I am pleased to say that I have no friends who dont like dogs and would not have anything to do with those who do not treat them with respect.


----------



## ramblingon

Chigman, I am sorry you placed an angry emphasis on my post (I was trying to be helpful) I was just being truthful not sarcastic I meant every word. I thought you wanted dog free space/sites?

Should an extra charge be levied-?
I for one could not afford to go on site as I have 4 small dogs, an extra £12 per night would cripple my excursion/holiday fund. 

Someone will definitely start an alternative camping club if they start to charge.

How about we start the Camping and K9 Carers Club?


----------



## ramblingon

AL8 said:


> Looks like we've ended up with 2 themes in this thread.
> 
> The first being that for no particular reason some people don't like dogs - that's life.
> 
> But the second is, IMHO, far more important for us ALL.
> It's will be the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> See previous post at bottom of page 12.
> 
> I would not be surprised to see huge increases per unit per night, including awning, 'special' pitch, hook-up, chidren, dog, etc etc in, say, 5 years time.


Yes I agree- there is something very "Brownesque" about the whole thing!

:grommit:


----------



## 96299

ramblingon said:


> Chigman, I am sorry you placed an angry emphasis on my post (I was trying to be helpful) I was just being truthful not sarcastic I meant every word. I thought you wanted dog free space/sites?
> 
> Should an extra charge be levied-?
> I for one could not afford to go on site as I have 4 small dogs, an extra £12 per night would cripple my excursion/holiday fund.
> 
> Someone will definitely start an alternative camping club if they start to charge.
> 
> How about we start the Camping and K9 Carers Club?


This is what I didn't like in your post to me....

"I wish there were some no dog sites just for people like you..."

What do you mean by people like me ? You don't even know me or anything about me (except I dislike dogs) so that's quite a broad statement to make.

steve


----------



## Penquin

I read that comment and read it as a desire that you could find some sites where you were not bothered by dogs.  

Nothing untoward and I believe the underlying sentiment was meant in a positive and not a negative manner. 

I also do not know anything about you except that you dislike dogs, but I am not being critical either. I believe it was meant in the same way that some people seek out sites that have a "no children" policy as they do not like having children around them for a variety of reasons. Why should some people not desire a "no dogs" policy on some sites?  

I am sure that if my interpretation is wrong someone will correct me! :? 

Dave


----------



## 96299

Penquin said:


> I read that comment and read it as a desire that you could find some sites where you were not bothered by dogs.
> 
> Nothing untoward and I believe the underlying sentiment was meant in a positive and not a negative manner.
> 
> I also do not know anything about you except that you dislike dogs, but I am not being critical either. I believe it was meant in the same way that some people seek out sites that have a "no children" policy as they do not like having children around them for a variety of reasons. Why should some people not desire a "no dogs" policy on some sites?
> 
> I am sure that if my interpretation is wrong someone will correct me! :?
> 
> Dave


You could be right I don't know. The use of a smiley could have gone along way though. 

steve


----------



## Sonesta

Chigman said:


> This is what I didn't like in your post to me....
> 
> "I wish there were some no dog sites just for people like you..."
> 
> What do you mean by people like me ? You don't even know me or anything about me (except I dislike dogs) so that's quite a broad statement to make.
> 
> steve


Steve, do you think that maybe you are being just a little oversensitive here? :?

I must say that when I read the remark written by ramingon that you've taken offence to - I didn't think he'd said anything amiss! :? I assumed he was just expressing his view that if there were dog free campsites introduced for people like yourself, people who clearly have serious objections to dogs, then it would be an ideal solution for you! Truthfully I cannot really see why the comment "people like you" should upset you so much, as it is not exactly the most offensive or insulting remark is it? In my opinion it is just a phrase that relates to a group of likeminded people who perhaps share the same values, views or interests! Well that's how I read it to mean anyway? 

Sue


----------



## Sonesta

Penquin said:


> I read that comment and read it as a desire that you could find some sites where you were not bothered by dogs.
> 
> Nothing untoward and I believe the underlying sentiment was meant in a positive and not a negative manner.
> 
> I also do not know anything about you except that you dislike dogs, but I am not being critical either. I believe it was meant in the same way that some people seek out sites that have a "no children" policy as they do not like having children around them for a variety of reasons. Why should some people not desire a "no dogs" policy on some sites?
> 
> I am sure that if my interpretation is wrong someone will correct me! :?
> 
> Dave


I don't know if you have noticed this before - but you and I often think alike Dave! 

I must have been still writing my reply when you submitted yours! Uncanny!!!!!! 8O

Sue


----------



## higgy2

I for one am waiting with bated breath for the outcome of the poll, the votes have to be in no later that 16th Oct. Do you think there will be a decision prior to the release of 2010 bookings ?

We are on the brink of joining the Caravan Club we probably still will as a total ban on dogs wll not be the result but a charge for dogs is on the cards. 

Having just got a Newfoundland puppy I am with the love dog brigade but feel for those who do not like them

As a previous post mentioned where will it end the saying 'Divide And Conquer' comes to mind - the next step will be how many children you 
are allowed to have on site

Most sites have no single group bookings and certain makes of caravan are not accepted, as said "Where will it end "

I think noisy neighbours are far worse than doggie ones. Lol

Keep up the posts they are a great read.


----------



## Penquin

Sonesta said:


> I don't know if you have noticed this before - but you and I often think alike Dave!  Uncanny!!!!!! 8O
> Sue


You have my deepest sympathy if your thought process is anything like mine! 

And yes this is {offtopic} before anyone says anything!

Dave


----------



## 96783

This was a topic that would and has raised all sorts of strong emotions.

Several years ago when we were dog (singular) owners we used to go to Harrow Wood Farm site, near Bournemouth, with two other caravanning families every Easter. The site was not the attraction, but another activity. One year the site instituted a "No Dogs" rule which we only discovered when we arrived, and we had to go find another not too far away so that we could meet with our friends. A real pain and inconvenience. Over the years we had four dogs, all well trained and walked on leads on CC sites but no longer do so because it doesn't suit our lifestyle today. If I kicked the bucket tomorrow my wife would have another dog by the next day!! Harrow Wood Farm managers said that they had instituted the rule because of the inconsiderate behaviour of some dog owners, fouling etc etc and we had seen evidence of that during our stays.

The CC survey is a good idea, although I haven't yet completed it but my small brain has said for many years that if a ban was brought in then the CC would probably lose 50% or more of its members. On a slightly cynical note that might not be such a bad thing judging from the comments from members of this forum concerning the lack of availability of pitches on CC sites. However, the loss of income would almost certainly be more than the CC could stand. It won't happen but there may well be other problems for dog owners.

As a matter of interest I asked the site manager whether they had suffered any loss of booking. The reply - bookings were up! The site still advertises in the CC magazine and still has a no dogs rule. It was a good site then but I guess it's probably somewhat cleaner today.


----------



## xgx

...not all of the dogs out there are canine........................... :lol: 

Any no dog/kids/generators/people campsites in the database? :lol: :lol:


----------



## Nickynoo

Oh dear My original post seems to have upset you Sonesta.
I did not mean to appear sarcastic about non animal lovers not needing counselling and I apologise to you.
The trouble is that we dog and animal lovers become very emotional and intense when faced with anti dog arguments.Because of this we can appear to loose a debate through too much emotional argument and not enough facts . We all love our dogs and want to be able to take them with us where ever we go.Unfortunately the anti dog lobby wonder what right we have to take our dogs anywhere and faced with parks and pavements full of dogs mess who can blame them!
I for one would love to see more dog wardens on the beat. More people may clean up in most areas as I have already been infomed by other posters but I still see an awful lot of dog mess on the pavements parks and beaches in my area. Because of this minority of dog owners I firmly believe that all dog owners will find the areas they can take their dogs to becoming more restricted.
I know other posters have views on people who do not like dogs and you are right Sonesta that in some cases it is down to a traumatic exerience as a child like your own . I do suspect in Steve (Chigmans )case that it was something in his childhood and maybe ,I don't want to make assumptions ,quite alot to do with his parents who obviously have a love of dogs . I used to work with a girl who hated dogs because she had grown up with them and felt her mother loved the dogs more than her, but that's another story.
I just worry about the future for us dog owners and I heartily agree that this survey is a way for the CC to bring in extra charges.
Yes people who dont like pets or have a bond with dog may be missing out on something just the same way I've missed out by not being a parent The trouble is that about 50% of the population dont see the value in pets which means us the other half have to work harder to be catered for in todays society of endless rules and restrictions & anti dog lobbyists. 
I know it's no good ranting about it on this forum either as all of you are resonsible I just wish there was away to tackle the bad dog owners who spoil it for us all.


----------



## AL8

PhredC said:


> .....if a ban was brought in then the CC would probably lose 50% or more of its members. On a slightly cynical note that might not be such a bad thing judging from the comments from members of this forum concerning the lack of availability of pitches on CC sites. However, the loss of income would almost certainly be more than the CC could stand. It won't happen but there may well be other problems for dog owners.


I very much doubt that they'd lose 50%, people will people they almost always do.
Increase the fees by 20% via extras, lose say 10% of bookings = make 10% more for 10% less effort?
And don't forget that these 'super' no-dog sites will be charging a premium &, I believe, unfortunately people will pay it.
Evidence? A few years ago who would have said we'd pay over £2.00 for a cup of coffee. Now you are lucky to find a cup under £2.00. Or nearly £5 a gallon for Petrol & Diesel? Or £1 for as loaf of 'normal' sliced bread? etc etc



higgy2 said:


> I for one am waiting with bated breath for the outcome of the poll, the votes have to be in no later that 16th Oct. Do you think there will be a decision prior to the release of 2010 bookings?
> We are on the brink of joining the Caravan Club we probably still will as a total ban on dogs wll not be the result but a charge for dogs is on the cards.
> Having just got a Newfoundland puppy I am with the love dog brigade but feel for those who do not like them
> As a previous post mentioned where will it end the saying 'Divide And Conquer' comes to mind - the next step will be how many children you
> are allowed to have on site
> Most sites have no single group bookings and certain makes of caravan are not accepted, as said "Where will it end "


Where indeed? Non-dog owners wont be bothered by this survey in fact some will stick the boot in, but the next money raising exercise might affect them, what if the survey was 'Units over 6m' or 'Minimum Stay 3 nights' ?



Nickynoo said:


> We all love our dogs and want to be able to take them with us where ever we go. Unfortunately the anti dog lobby wonder what right we have to take our dogs anywhere and faced with parks and pavements full of dogs mess who can blame them!
> I for one would love to see more dog wardens on the beat. More people may clean up in most areas as I have already been informed by other posters but I still see an awful lot of dog mess on the pavements parks and beaches in my area. Because of this minority of dog owners I firmly believe that all dog owners will find the areas they can take their dogs to becoming more restricted.
> I know other posters have views on people who do not like dogs and you are right Sonesta that in some cases it is down to a traumatic experience as a child like your own. I do suspect in Steve (Chigmans )case that it was something in his childhood and maybe ,I don't want to make assumptions ,quite a lot to do with his parents who obviously have a love of dogs . I used to work with a girl who hated dogs because she had grown up with them and felt her mother loved the dogs more than her, but that's another story.
> I just worry about the future for us dog owners and I heartily agree that this survey is a way for the CC to bring in extra charges.
> Yes people who dont like pets or have a bond with dog may be missing out on something just the same way I've missed out by not being a parent The trouble is that about 50% of the population dont see the value in pets which means us the other half have to work harder to be catered for in todays society of endless rules and restrictions & anti dog lobbyists.
> I know it's no good ranting about it on this forum either as all of you are responsible I just wish there was away to tackle the bad dog owners who spoil it for us all.


well put.

What I believe we should ALL be doing, rather than getting at each other about dog-lover or not, is to be demanding lower site fees, more sites, etc, etc... After all are we not in the middle of a resession? Companys should be falling over themselves to get us to spend our money with them. Fat chance, me thinks :evil:

The NEC show is on next week, I think that dog-lover or not we should all make the point on the CC and C&CC stands that we want more for less, not less for more. That will put the wind up them


----------



## Sonesta

Nickynoo said:


> Oh dear My original post seems to have upset you Sonesta.
> I did not mean to appear sarcastic about non animal lovers not needing counselling and I apologise to you.
> The trouble is that we dog and animal lovers become very emotional and intense when faced with anti dog arguments.Because of this we can appear to loose a debate through too much emotional argument and not enough facts . We all love our dogs and want to be able to take them with us where ever we go.Unfortunately the anti dog lobby wonder what right we have to take our dogs anywhere and faced with parks and pavements full of dogs mess who can blame them!
> I for one would love to see more dog wardens on the beat. More people may clean up in most areas as I have already been infomed by other posters but I still see an awful lot of dog mess on the pavements parks and beaches in my area. Because of this minority of dog owners I firmly believe that all dog owners will find the areas they can take their dogs to becoming more restricted.
> I know other posters have views on people who do not like dogs and you are right Sonesta that in some cases it is down to a traumatic exerience as a child like your own . I do suspect in Steve (Chigmans )case that it was something in his childhood and maybe ,I don't want to make assumptions ,quite alot to do with his parents who obviously have a love of dogs . I used to work with a girl who hated dogs because she had grown up with them and felt her mother loved the dogs more than her, but that's another story.
> I just worry about the future for us dog owners and I heartily agree that this survey is a way for the CC to bring in extra charges.
> Yes people who dont like pets or have a bond with dog may be missing out on something just the same way I've missed out by not being a parent The trouble is that about 50% of the population dont see the value in pets which means us the other half have to work harder to be catered for in todays society of endless rules and restrictions & anti dog lobbyists.
> I know it's no good ranting about it on this forum either as all of you are resonsible I just wish there was away to tackle the bad dog owners who spoil it for us all.


Aw thanks Nickynoo I appreciate your reply - I was hoping I may have slightly misunderstood your post and it looks like I did exactly that! 

I think by the sounds of it you and I agree on most points raised in this thread and as an owner of 2 adoreable, sweet little dogs myself I could not bear to not be able to take them away with us anymore. It would break both mine and my husbands hearts to leave them behind and there is no way we could put them in dog kennels either! So if bans were introduced then the joy of motorhoming would be over for us that's for sure. 

I sympathise with those that do not have an affinity with dogs and let's be fair we all have our likes and dislikes etc. However, I truly believe there is room in this big wide world for everyone's needs, passions, likes and dislikes to be catered for and blanket bans, intolerance and tunnelled visons views serve no real purpose and do not help to resolve anything! :roll:

We all have to live together and try as best as we can to see life from all sides and to my mind, compromise is the key to resolving most problems! It's when folk start preaching on about how others should live their lives or how someone should do this, that or the other that I find my hackles begin to rise and then, when I suspect that maybe some people are tending to over exaggarate their stories, or be slightly more "economical" with the truth in order to prove their point, is when I finally shrug my shoulders and think oh dear! oh dear! oh dear what a sad and sorry bunch of silly, stubborn and miserable so and so's! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Sue


----------



## wakk44

I have just read the October caravan club magazine and the letter of the month is from a disgruntled member complaining about a fellow camper with 5 dogs which were barking,causing a disturbance and then asking if a fee for dogs could be introduced.

The editors reply is interesting-

_''it has become clear that the number of comments and letters received concerning the issues surrounding pets on sites means that the problems and possible solutions need to be discussed via the committee system'' _

Reading between the lines I think they will either introduce site fees for dogs,limit the number of dogs per unit,or even have dog-free sites which is a bit extreme and unlikely to be implemented.

The caravan club have to consider these issues and decide whether they will appease members who are anti-dog or antagonise the dog owners.Either way they will upset one of these 2 bodies.

If dog fees are introduced then it is quite possible a significant number of people will not renew their membership.My opinion is that site rules are adequate regarding dogs at present,it's the wardens that must be encouraged to enforce them.


----------



## 96299

Sonesta said:


> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I didn't like in your post to me....
> 
> "I wish there were some no dog sites just for people like you..."
> 
> What do you mean by people like me ? You don't even know me or anything about me (except I dislike dogs) so that's quite a broad statement to make.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, do you think that maybe you are being just a little oversensitive here? :?
> 
> I must say that when I read the remark written by ramingon that you've taken offence to - I didn't think he'd said anything amiss! :? I assumed he was just expressing his view that if there were dog free campsites introduced for people like yourself, people who clearly have serious objections to dogs, then it would be an ideal solution for you! Truthfully I cannot really see why the comment "people like you" should upset you so much, as it is not exactly the most offensive or insulting remark is it? In my opinion it is just a phrase that relates to a group of likeminded people who perhaps share the same values, views or interests! Well that's how I read it to mean anyway?
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

Hi Sue

Well we all read into things differently I suppose and I read that "people like you" bit as a slant against me and people like me as in maybe... you doggy hater types.
I think it possible to read it two ways. Anyway lets forget that bit ay. 

steve


----------



## camper69

5 dogs is a bit OTT. How on earth do you control them when you let them off the lead or it one at a time ?

Derek


----------



## patp

What about contacting the CC and suggesting a fine of £1,000 on owners who do not obey the site rules? :lol: 

The wardens could be on 10% giving them an incentive to patrol a little more. 

Oh and members could be on 10% - second thoughts no - might be some punch ups  

Given my post about the paranoid lady and the London Borough that is now spotless it would seem the fairest way all round. CC would make the odd £900, wardens would be happy and dog owners would be in pocket too (unless you are the one caught 8O )


----------



## Sonesta

Chigman said:


> Sonesta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chigman said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I didn't like in your post to me....
> 
> "I wish there were some no dog sites just for people like you..."
> 
> What do you mean by people like me ? You don't even know me or anything about me (except I dislike dogs) so that's quite a broad statement to make.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, do you think that maybe you are being just a little oversensitive here? :?
> 
> I must say that when I read the remark written by ramingon that you've taken offence to - I didn't think he'd said anything amiss! :? I assumed he was just expressing his view that if there were dog free campsites introduced for people like yourself, people who clearly have serious objections to dogs, then it would be an ideal solution for you! Truthfully I cannot really see why the comment "people like you" should upset you so much, as it is not exactly the most offensive or insulting remark is it? In my opinion it is just a phrase that relates to a group of likeminded people who perhaps share the same values, views or interests! Well that's how I read it to mean anyway?
> 
> Sue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Sue
> 
> Well we all read into things differently I suppose and I read that "people like you" bit as a slant against me and people like me as in maybe... you doggy hater types.
> I think it possible to read it two ways. Anyway lets forget that bit ay.
> 
> steve
Click to expand...

Okay Steve, no problem!  I understand what you are saying and I think we can all be on the defensive if we think people are gunning for us! 

Take care.

Sue


----------



## ThursdaysChild

I am somewhat amazed that one of the " options" in the CC survey -viz: to have separate areas for members with dogs - has not been addressed in this debate.

Could that work - to the satisfaction of all ?


----------



## Sonesta

camper69 said:


> 5 dogs is a bit OTT. How on earth do you control them when you let them off the lead or it one at a time ?
> 
> Derek


Oh deary me Derek,

If you'd said a similar thing to my mum (a young widow left with 4 children to raise single handed) she would have had your guts for garters!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: She kept us all under control I can assure you and if anyone had ever suggested otherwise - I would not have liked to have been them!!!! The same goes for dog owners with several dogs -why should they not be able to control them? :roll:

Ooh err ..... its a little bit cheeky of you to say its OTT though as why exactly is it? :? You I presume know nothing of this persons personal circumstances or life do you? For all you know he could be a well experiened and competent dog handler whose dogs respect him as their master? Surely as long as the owner isn't asking you or anyone else to look after his 5 dogs or expecting you to pay for their upkeep, take them for walks or pay their vets bills etc then (and I don't mean this to sound rude when I say this) but what real business is it of yours? 8O

I am sure the person you refer to who owns these 5 dogs is mature enough to make a sensible decision re how many dogs he wishes to give a home to and I am quite sure he wouldn't have chosen to have 5 dogs if he felt he was incapable of keeping them under control and looking after them responsibly! 8O However, I am sure he will come along shortly to 'politely' answer all of your concerns but take my advice ........and wear a safety helmet first! :wink:

Sue


----------



## Sonesta

*For all those that don't like dogs!*

Just to test all the members who claim to dislike all dogs and see if you really all have got hearts of stone where dogs are concerned? :wink:

Just take a look at this photo of our 2 little dogs Candy-Kisses (on the right) and Buddy (on the left) fast asleep in their favourite pink doggy bed and then tell me they aren't just a teeny, weeny, lickle bit cute? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wont be offended if you think they are ugly, dirty and smelly looking evil creatures - just sad that you can't see what we see! 

Sue

PS I am not biased in any way - but even their doggy doo comes out perfumed and sweet smelling! :rofl:


----------



## higgy2

http://s585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/Higgy_2009/?action=view&current=CIMG2068.jpg

Here is a picture of our pup - Hagrid. If I have done it correctly.


----------



## Sonesta

Aw Higgy - he/she is absolutely gorgeous!  

Sue


----------



## higgy2

It's a male dog named after Rubeus Hagrid from Harry Potter.

He was 11 weeks old, I just hope we can take him to the campsites.


----------



## t2000

*dogs and cc club*

Hi
just back from 2 weeks holiday scotland using cc club sites dogs welcome
(no charge either)


----------



## Briarose

wakk44 said:


> I have just read the October caravan club magazine and the letter of the month is from a disgruntled member complaining about a fellow camper with 5 dogs which were barking,causing a disturbance and then asking if a fee for dogs could be introduced.
> 
> The editors reply is interesting-
> 
> _''it has become clear that the number of comments and letters received concerning the issues surrounding pets on sites means that the problems and possible solutions need to be discussed via the committee system'' _
> 
> Reading between the lines I think they will either introduce site fees for dogs,limit the number of dogs per unit,or even have dog-free sites which is a bit extreme and unlikely to be implemented.
> 
> The caravan club have to consider these issues and decide whether they will appease members who are anti-dog or antagonise the dog owners.Either way they will upset one of these 2 bodies.
> 
> If dog fees are introduced then it is quite possible a significant number of people will not renew their membership.My opinion is that site rules are adequate regarding dogs at present,it's the wardens that must be encouraged to enforce them.


Hi Steve I have read that too, could you copy (I don't have a scanner) the other letter from a Ed Smith :wink: because this probably won't stop at dogs LOL he is complaining about folk that arrive early on site ! recycling problems etc amongst other things ! and he states that this is mostly from folk on site over 60................so will the next thing be to have seperate area for OAPS :roll:


----------



## geraldandannie

Chigman said:


> Well we all read into things differently I suppose and I read that "people like you" bit as a slant against me and people like me as in maybe... you doggy hater types.


Hi Steve

I think the danger is that you read it, and you hear someone saying it, and when you do that, it does sound a bit 'off'. But no malice was intended, and we've all moved on (except me  :wink: :lol: )

I personally would have no problem paying a little bit extra to take our dog on a CC site. I do it for other sites, so why not the CC? £1 - £2 on top of the already exorbitant CC fees is not a big deal. Maybe if some people took exception to it, others of us might be able to find a CC site at short notice.

Or am I dreaming again?

Gerald


----------



## Waggy

Hi Gerald 

I am not sure how payment of a fee would help with the problems ie fouling and barking dogs etc. Would this entitle the irresponsible owners to do as they like? 8O 8O 

Or is it, as we suspect just a means of increasing CC's income :evil: 

Graham


----------



## camper69

Sonesta said:


> camper69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 dogs is a bit OTT. How on earth do you control them when you let them off the lead or it one at a time ?
> 
> Derek
> 
> 
> 
> Oh deary me Derek,
> 
> If you'd said a similar thing to my mum (a young widow left with 4 children to raise single handed) she would have had your guts for garters!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: She kept us all under control I can assure you and if anyone had ever suggested otherwise - I would not have liked to have been them!!!! The same goes for dog owners with several dogs -why should they not be able to control them? :roll:
> 
> Ooh err ..... its a little bit cheeky of you to say its OTT though as why exactly is it? :? You I presume know nothing of this persons personal circumstances or life do you? For all you know he could be a well experiened and competent dog handler whose dogs respect him as their master? Surely as long as the owner isn't asking you or anyone else to look after his 5 dogs or expecting you to pay for their upkeep, take them for walks or pay their vets bills etc then (and I don't mean this to sound rude when I say this) but what real business is it of yours? 8O
> 
> I am sure the person you refer to who owns these 5 dogs is mature enough to make a sensible decision re how many dogs he wishes to give a home to and I am quite sure he wouldn't have chosen to have 5 dogs if he felt he was incapable of keeping them under control and looking after them responsibly! 8O However, I am sure he will come along shortly to 'politely' answer all of your concerns but take my advice ........and wear a safety helmet first! :wink:
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

Whats 4 children got to do with 5 dogs. Saw a woman out at the weekend with 5 dogs in the local woods. All went in different directions when she let them off the leads and she had no control over what they did. I am sure she would have no idea if they did their business on the paths. Also there were lots of young children about.

Derek


----------



## Sonesta

camper69 said:


> Sonesta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> camper69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 dogs is a bit OTT. How on earth do you control them when you let them off the lead or it one at a time ?
> 
> Derek
> 
> 
> 
> Oh deary me Derek,
> 
> If you'd said a similar thing to my mum (a young widow left with 4 children to raise single handed) she would have had your guts for garters!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: She kept us all under control I can assure you and if anyone had ever suggested otherwise - I would not have liked to have been them!!!! The same goes for dog owners with several dogs -why should they not be able to control them? :roll:
> 
> Ooh err ..... its a little bit cheeky of you to say its OTT though as why exactly is it? :? You I presume know nothing of this persons personal circumstances or life do you? For all you know he could be a well experiened and competent dog handler whose dogs respect him as their master? Surely as long as the owner isn't asking you or anyone else to look after his 5 dogs or expecting you to pay for their upkeep, take them for walks or pay their vets bills etc then (and I don't mean this to sound rude when I say this) but what real business is it of yours? 8O
> 
> I am sure the person you refer to who owns these 5 dogs is mature enough to make a sensible decision re how many dogs he wishes to give a home to and I am quite sure he wouldn't have chosen to have 5 dogs if he felt he was incapable of keeping them under control and looking after them responsibly! 8O However, I am sure he will come along shortly to 'politely' answer all of your concerns but take my advice ........and wear a safety helmet first! :wink:
> 
> Sue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats 4 children got to do with 5 dogs. Saw a woman out at the weekend with 5 dogs in the local woods. All went in different directions when she let them off the leads and she had no control over what they did. I am sure she would have no idea if they did their business on the paths. Also there were lots of young children about.
> 
> Derek
Click to expand...

I was drawing a comparison - I thought you would realise that? :roll:

I am sure you can appreciate, that all too often people with large families (especially lone parents) get stereotyped by those people who have come into contact with single parents who allow their children to run haywire! :roll: Sadly because of incidents like this, some folk can quite unjustifiably, form the opinion that every lone parent family must be the same and as a result they then go around tarring all large families with the same brush! 8O

This same judgemental attitude obviously applies to dog owners too by the sounds of it! 8O Obviously, as in all walks of life, there will be irresponsible dog owners who for some reason do not stop at owning one dog but that doesn't then mean that all dog owners, who choose to have x amount of dogs are all the same now does it? 8O Every one is different and you cannot go around condemning and pre judging folk just because they have more than 1 dog! That was the point I was attempting to make Derek and the reference to children was made simply to emphasise my point! 

As for the lady with 5 dogs in the woods - well if you say that happened then I will take your word for it but I would say that the amount of folk who go around allowing their dogs off their leads, especially when they have absolutely NO control over them is very much in the minority and most dog owners whose dogs don't stay close by would be very reluctant to do that I can assure you! Our 2 little dogs love to be let off the lead for a good old run around and it is a delight to see them having such fun and chasing each other but they don't venture far I can assure you, and if they ever do a doggy doo (which doggies do) then we are there with our poop bags in hand all ready to clean up after them!

Sue


----------



## Spacerunner

I hope that all those who have voiced an opinion on this thread have also made their feelings clear to the Caravan Club through the questionnaire.

Maybe if your remarks were as long as mine the powers that be would start to go glassy eyed and lose the will to pursue the subject any further and bin the whole exercise! 

They haven't banned flying pigs yet, have they?


----------



## loughrigg

I thought you might like to comment on this extract from the Dog Control Orders recently introduced by my local council a few weeks ago. They also include provision for an enforeable £80 penalty notice that can be issued to anyone contravening the various orders.

1. You must clear up your dog mess - at all open land in the Borough to which the public have access with or without payment

2. You cannot have more than 4 dogs under your control in any open land in the Borough to which the public have access with or without payment

3. You must keep your dogs on a lead on all roads, verges, footways, promenades, allotments, formal gardens within parks (signage will be displayed), Chalkwell Park Gardens, Southchurch Park Gardens, Churchill Gardens, Leigh Library Gardens, Prittlewell Square, Southchurch Hall Gardens, The Shrubbery, Priory Park Foundation area walled garden and Centenary garden, Belfairs Park Bowling Greens, Chalkwell Esplanade Bowling Greens, Cavendish Bowling Green, Eastwood Park Bowling Green, Priory Bowling greens, Southchurch Park Bowling Green, Shoebury Park Bowling Green, green areas along the beaches (during 1st May to 30 September only), Sutton Road Cemetery, North Road Burial Ground, Leigh Cemetery, London Road Crematorium and memorial grounds, Churchyards (signage will be displayed) St. Mary's Church, Holy Trinity Church, St. Clements Churchyard, St. John's Churchyard. (Note generally dogs can be off lead in a park but are excluded from some park areas – i.e. childrens play areas)

4. You must put your dog on a lead (max 6 feet) when required by an authorised Officer on all open land in the Borough to which the public have access with or without payment An authorised officer of the Authority may only give a direction under this Order to put and keep a dog on a lead if such restraint is reasonably necessary to prevent a nuisance or behaviour by the dog likely to cause annoyance or disturbance to any other person or the worrying or disturbance of any animal or bird.

5. Dogs are excluded from the following areas:

All Year - Separate children’s play areas within parks (signage will be displayed), Belfairs Park Tennis Courts, Bonchurch Park Tennis Courts, Chalkwell Park Tennis courts, Cavendish Park Tennis and Basketball Courts, Priory Park Tennis Courts, Southchurch Park Tennis Courts, Shoebury Park Tennis Courts, Warner’s Park – All-weather Pitch Milton Road Gardens Tennis Courts, Cluny Square – 5 a side pitch.

Part Year (1st May to 30th September) All beaches in the Borough of Southend-on-Sea extending out to the mean low water mark. 

Mike


----------



## Sonesta

All the above rules sound absolutely fair to me Mike and anyone found breaking them deserves to be penalised. :evil: Even though I am a dog owner, I have no objections to obeying the kind of rules displayed in your post and neither can I see anyone else who cares about and respects their environment objecting to them either ! All we doggy people want to be able to do is take our 4 legged friends for an enjoyable walk in places where we are permitted to do so and I think I can speak on behalf of most dog onwers when I say that the last thing the majority of us want when we are out with our dogs is any kind of trouble or hassle!  

Right that's it for me - I can offer no more on this controversial subject and I'm so busy going round in a circle now, that I feel like someone's nailed my flipping foot to the floor! 8O 

Sue


----------



## geraldandannie

Sonesta said:


> As for the lady with 5 dogs in the woods - well if you say that happened then I will take your word for it but I would say that the amount of folk who go around allowing their dogs off their leads, especially when they have absolutely NO control over them is very much in the minority


Well, unfortunately, there may be few of them, but they create an awful amount of mess. I know (for a fact, because I've seen them) there is a person who drives their Jeep to a park near us, opens the back door, and lets at least 8 dogs out, all of them off lead. The dogs run wild, and poop wherever they want, and the owners / walkers don't give a monkey's about what they do. So that's one person, 8 dogs, undoing the work that maybe 20 or 30 _responsible_ dog owners do.

Any comparison with children is a bit spurious, IMO :roll:

Mike - those rules seem fair enough to me. We take our dog out on a lead, and let her off when it's safe to do so. I have absolutely no objections to keeping her on a lead under normal circumstances. Up our road, we have people like Dave (DABs) whose dogs go out off lead, and stay close to them and under control at all times, but the problem is that when you're talking about enforcement, it's easier to police "on a lead" than "under control". Not that anyone does police it.

Gerald


----------



## Sonesta

*...*



geraldandannie said:


> Any comparison with children is a bit spurious, IMO :roll:
> Gerald


Well Gerald I thank you for your opinion re my comparison (says she as she frantically spins around in yet another circle, like a whirling dervish on speed! :lol: ) but to put it frankly I don't really care if you find my remark "spurious" or not. It was simply my "feeble" attempt at trying to suggest that some people should try NOT to be quite so judgemental and to emphasise that you cannot always judge a sausage by it's skin :lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously tho I meant no harm and I was simply just attempting to emphasise my point but clearly I failed miserably!! 

Let me get this right .............. you know of someone with 8 dogs who regularly drives to your local park in his jeep and you have observed him openly and blatantly allowing all 8 of them to run wild and to poo willy nilly here there and everywhere? This person makes no attempt to clear up after his/her dogs and the result being there is dog sh*te left behind everywhere????? Yuk! Yuk! Yuk! How disgusting! 8O Now, if I have got the facts right then obviously his conduct is inexcuseable and I offer no excuse for such disregard and ignorance and the man/woman needs to brought to book! :twisted: However, bearing in mind how angry this clearly does make you and quite rightly so, I am presuming that you as a responsible and concerned onlooker, have already taken note of the cars registration number and duly reported this person to the relevant bodies? I am just suprised that he is still getting away with it and continuing to do the same thing? It is amazing to think that he would have the audacity to return back again and again as he must have guessed that someone who has seen him/her in action has reported them and to come back knowing that someone is watching him is really take the mick .... what a flaming cheek? If I were you Gerald I would chase this matter up and enquire why this person is still up to his dirty deeds? Because until the likes of him are dealt with and held accountable, it's the decent responsible owners like you and I that have to endure all this unwarranted negativity. Chase it up today Gerald and make sure this ignoramus gets their just desserts! :evil:

Right I did say I was done with contributing to this thread as I was just going round in circles chasing my own tail - but you quoted extracts from my post in your post so I just had to reply. :wink: Anyway, after spinning around in yet another frenzied circular movement for the past 5 mins, I am now gonna make myself a nice cup of tea and let my 2 gorgeous little doggies (who consequently are looking up at me with pleading eyes and plaited legs) out for a much needed morning wee! (in their own back garden I may add!) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have a nice day! 

Sue


----------



## peedee

I don't think it is about money, if it was, why not simply increase site fees?
I think it is about restricting dogs per pitch, that was what the letter was about. We shall see! 

I think one dog should be free, charge for all subsequent ones with a ceiling of 2 or three. Hows that for speculation :twisted: 

peedee


----------



## CliffyP

Any comparison with children is a bit spurious, IMO :roll:

Gerald[/quote]

Clearly you have never been on a site when the kids are on holiday and the toilets are left in a terrible state, not flushed, toilet paper everywhere etc etc. A rule should also be introduced that no children are allowed in the toilets/showers without parents for that reason alone. However when you think that at Football/Cricket etc anyone under 16 is not allowed to change with adults, it is strange that 5+ year olds are allowed in and out of shower/toilet blocks at sites unsupervised. A dog owner would be pulled for allowing their dog to run around freely and annoy people, but a lot (not all) of parents dont give hoot where or what their little darlings are doing so long as its not around them. So dogs in the dog areas, kids in the play areas its very simple, any undue noise be it dog,cat.child adult frogs should be dealt with accordingly. We shout for a reason, a child cries for a reason and a dog barks for a reason, everything in context please and a level playing field for all.

We were on a site a few months ago where an old couple were 3/4 down from us, clearly both hard of hearing. We could hear them so god help those next to them. So let ban OLD PEOPLE, or put them in the next field, come on you lot sign up below :-


----------



## Spacerunner

CliffyP said:


> We were on a site a few months ago where an old couple were 3/4 down from us, clearly both hard of hearing. We could hear them so god help those next to them. So let ban OLD PEOPLE, or put them in the next field, come on you lot sign up below :-


What!? Speak up young man!!


----------



## CliffyP

Spacerunner said:


> CliffyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> We were on a site a few months ago where an old couple were 3/4 down from us, clearly both hard of hearing. We could hear them so god help those next to them. So let ban OLD PEOPLE, or put them in the next field, come on you lot sign up below :-
> 
> 
> 
> What!? Speak up young man!!
Click to expand...

Wrong section but here goes :-

Old couple from Wigan go to New York, America, they get a taxi at Airport and conversation goes like this.

Taxi Driver- Where are you guys from
Old Man- Were from Wigan in Lancashire
Old Lady- What did he say ?
Old Man- He asked where we were from and I told him Wigan in Lancashire.
Old Lady- Ohh
Taxi Driver- Wigan is that in the North or South of England ?
Old Man- Its in the North
Old Lady- What did he say ?
Old Man- He asked was Wigan in the North or the South of England and I told him the North.
Old Lady- Ohh
Taxi Driver- Come to think of it I was is US Air Force stationed in Burtonwood and I seem to remember we used to go to Wigan sometimes for a night out.
Old Lady- What did he say /
Old Man getting annoyed- He said he was stationed at Burtonwood and thinks he used to go to Wigan for a night out.
Old Lady-Ohh
Taxi Driver- Now I remember, we did go go to Wigan because I remember I picked up this ugly girl there and she was the worst sex I have ever had in my life.
Old Lady- What did he say ?
Old Man- HE THINKS HE KNOWS YOU.


----------



## loughrigg

Hi Gerald & Sue

Interesting that you think the control orders are reasonable - from the reaction round here (from dog owners) I quite expect to see the odd councillor swinging from a lamp-post in the near future.

I'm not a dog owner, so the orders don't affect me directly. However, an indirect consequence is that the old garrison sight near me has a had a noticeable increase in the number of off-lead dog walking since the control orders were introduced (it is classed as a park and is adjacent to large areas of beach where the dogs are banned).

Riding around the site (on the shared-use tracks) is starting to get slightly hazardous because of the number of free-ranging dogs - having said that, my slamom skills are being well-honed by the strategically placed piles of poo!! The biggest "deposits" always seem to be just round a corner......


Mike


----------



## ThursdaysChild

was that supposed to defuse the debate ?


----------



## patp

I think those control orders are reasonable only if there is SOMEWHERE to exercise dogs.

I am getting seriously concerned that dogs are fast becoming the whipping boy of our society


----------



## greygit

patp said:


> I think those control orders are reasonable only if there is SOMEWHERE to exercise dogs.
> 
> I am getting seriously concerned that dogs are fast becoming the
> whipping boy of our society


I have to agree with you.
We have a whippet and a bull lurcher these dogs are sight hounds and NEED to RUN not walked on a lead, it's almost cruelty to expect them to do that.......we do muzzle them.
Gary


----------



## Annsman

The CC seem to be joining in with this very British attitude of not producing a system that encourages/makes sure that individuals take responsibility for their actions, but produce one that penalises everyone. 

It doesn't matter whether it's motrhomes/caravans that park up for the night somehwere, dogs on beaches, caravan sites and parks, kids wearing hooded tops, football fan coaches at services, drinking in public the reaction of authority is to ban everyone/everything from doing it!

It can't be beyond the intelligence of the CC to find out who is disregarding this and other rules and take action against the individuals concerned. Just as it isn't impossible to sort out who is parked up somewhere for a night and who has moved in!

As has been pointed out there are enough rules and regulations in this island and what is needed is not MORE but someone to start appying the ones that are there already. But then that would mean someone doing their job efficiently, and that can't be tolerated!


----------



## Briarose

Spacerunner said:


> CliffyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> We were on a site a few months ago where an old couple were 3/4 down from us, clearly both hard of hearing. We could hear them so god help those next to them. So let ban OLD PEOPLE, or put them in the next field, come on you lot sign up below :-
> 
> 
> 
> What!? Speak up young man!!
Click to expand...

I did say see the other letter in the caravan club magazine..............if anyone can scan it you will see what I mean :wink: the letter is a long list of moans and the writer suggests over 60s are the guilty parties :roll: so the next thing you know the survey might be about OAPs on CC sites :wink: one of the moans was about folk that arrive on site early, well surely if the caravan or motorhome arrives and there is a vacant pitch I can't see any reason why that member should have to sit at the reception until 12 or am I missing something (as I say see the other letter),


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## 96299

Annsman said:


> The CC seem to be joining in with this very British attitude of not producing a system that encourages/makes sure that individuals take responsibility for their actions, but produce one that penalises everyone.
> 
> It doesn't matter whether it's motrhomes/caravans that park up for the night somehwere, dogs on beaches, caravan sites and parks, kids wearing hooded tops, football fan coaches at services, drinking in public the reaction of authority is to ban everyone/everything from doing it!
> 
> It can't be beyond the intelligence of the CC to find out who is disregarding this and other rules and take action against the individuals concerned. Just as it isn't impossible to sort out who is parked up somewhere for a night and who has moved in!
> 
> As has been pointed out there are enough rules and regulations in this island and what is needed is not MORE but someone to start appying the ones that are there already. But then that would mean someone doing their job efficiently, and that can't be tolerated!


I totally agree with this post. Well said Annsman.

steve


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## jacquimac

Thanks for the link. I have just completed it...Don't say no to dogs as most of us are responsible owners!! Jacqui


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## roamingsue

As a non dog owner I voted for two dogs free and then charges which seemed to me sensible. I also thought the idea of dog free areas was a good idea because some people sadly do have phobias. 

I voted strongly against an absolute bann but did make the point that if owners dogs were likely to bite and lunged at people or needed muzzling all the time they should not be on a campsite.

I also thought improved dog bin provision was sensible.


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## roamingsue

Comparision of children with dogs is not sensible I agree. 

Dogs are a separate species. Today's children are going to look after us in our nursing homes, create the wealth and run the country. Personally I believe that we all have a duty to help socialise them! It does worry me this comparison with dogs.


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## ThursdaysChild

Roamingsue

"because some people sadly do have phobias "

Surely a phobia is an _irrational_ fear ?

A dislike is something else. Not liking being disturbed by barking and yapping, not liking being approached by a dog with its teeth bared, not liking stepping in excrement are certainly not irrational.

Not liking patronising medicalisation of someone's likes and dislikes is not irrational either.


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## nipperdin

It is fine for people to take their dogs away with them- but just wish some of them would take more care over controlling the dogs.
Four times in the last year we have had dog mess on our pitch.
A couple of weeks ago we were on a private site where our neighbours went out at 8.00am leaving four barking dogs in their motorcaravan.
The site owner came round and without any hesitation said that when couple returned, which they eventually did late morning, they were to leave.
The same lot would go out in their van and leave the electric lead still plugged in to the mains socket.
Caring people !


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## Briarose

Ref this topic you can view the results of the survey on the CC club website or read on page 77 of the magazine. And the following is the outcome.
_
We had an excellent response to a
request for your views regarding pets on
sites, prompting a number of initiatives
IN THE October 2009 issue of the
Magazine, following a number of
letters and comments received
concerning pets on sites, we invited you to
share your views.
We received a high number of responses
from both dog owners and non-owners -
almost 4000 in total.
Although more than two-thirds of those
responding were dog owners, we took into
consideration the known proportion of
owners among the membership while
analysing the data.
The results of the survey and all other
information available on the topic have
been reviewed by both the Executive and
Sites Committees.
The replies highlighted that many
members enjoy the pleasurable company of
dogs, and that most owners act responsibly.
However, there are some issues
surrounding dogs off their leads within
certain areas (ie outside of dog walks).
Members' enjoyment of Club sites is
paramount and the Club's committees have
no intention of changing the Club's policy
of welcoming dogs on sites or introducing
charges. Instead, we'll be working on ways
to keep members and their pets happy.
Club Site Rule 4 regarding 'Behaviour on
Sites' states that all site users are expected
to respect the comfort and convenience of
other site users. We're taking action to
ensure the minority of dog owners who are
not acting responsibly do so in future. You
can expect to see:
n New and improved signage on sites
to ensure owners keep their dogs on
leads unless they are on a designated
dog walk and do not allow their pets to
foul the area
n The introduction of dog bins on all sites,
even those without dog walks
n A new, improved Visiting Club Sites with
Dogs leaflet handed to owners on arrival.
This provides guidance on choosing ideal
sites for dogs, travelling safely with pets
and responsible behaviour on site in
accordance with Club Site Rule 13
We believe these initiatives will greatly
contribute to the enjoyment of all on
Club sites._


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## ramblingon

Thanks for the update. I see they know which side their bread is buttered on.


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## xgx

> _Although more than two-thirds of those
> responding were dog owners, we took into
> consideration the known proportion of
> owners among the membership while
> analysing the data. _


a little bit of PR speak with a familiar farmyard aroma of massaged data...


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## Briarose

xgx said:


> _Although more than two-thirds of those
> responding were dog owners, we took into
> consideration the known proportion of
> owners among the membership while
> analysing the data. _
> 
> 
> 
> a little bit of PR speak with a familiar farmyard aroma of massaged data...
Click to expand...

Hmmn I must admit I wondered what that bit meant :wink:


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## peedee

In other words no change. I cannot see those measures having much of an impact on irresponsible owners.

peedee


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## patp

We musn't be too complacent. This could be the start of something bigger. They sense the dog owners becoming anti and so issue this statement. When it doesn't work to curb the actions of the few then they may say they tried the nicely nicely approach but............

In Dogs Today magazine there are more reports of councils banning dogs from parks in various parts of the country. In others they are insisiting on an "all dogs on leads" in public areas type of bye law.

We can only hope that the new initiative, to insist that breeders take responsibility for the puppies they produce, will dramatically reduce the numbers of puppies being bred. This in turn will help ensure that the good breeders that remain will only sell a puppy to a responsible owner.


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## Briarose

patp said:


> We musn't be too complacent. This could be the start of something bigger. They sense the dog owners becoming anti and so issue this statement. When it doesn't work to curb the actions of the few then they may say they tried the nicely nicely approach but............
> 
> In Dogs Today magazine there are more reports of councils banning dogs from parks in various parts of the country. In others they are insisiting on an "all dogs on leads" in public areas type of bye law.
> 
> We can only hope that the new initiative, to insist that breeders take responsibility for the puppies they produce, will dramatically reduce the numbers of puppies being bred. This in turn will help ensure that the good breeders that remain will only sell a puppy to a responsible owner.


Pat I hope you are right ref the last paragraph, I know I am going a little off topic but I cringe when I see so many well lets say youngsters in burberry caps etc :wink: with both puppy staffies and dogs, it worries me so much as to what the future holds for them.............thats the dogs not the owners. They certainly have become a fashion type accesory for some of these youngsters and the trend seems to be increasing every year........it makes me so sad.


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## patp

Briarose if the statistics from the rescue societies are to be believed then the "fashion" is on the way out. They say they are getting more and more staffies in for rehoming than they know what to do with.

Methinks though that, in some cases, the thugs from the football terraces have found a new hobby


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## Briarose

patp said:


> Briarose if the statistics from the rescue societies are to be believed then the "fashion" is on the way out. They say they are getting more and more staffies in for rehoming than they know what to do with.
> 
> Methinks though that, in some cases, the thugs from the football terraces have found a new hobby


I truly hope that soon this is the case, I believe their are far too many staffies being bred and I guess alot of it is for easy money.


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