# Help please Leisure battery charging systems



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Yes I know I'm the one normally dishing out the advice but on this occasion.....

Does anyone know of, or have any experience with, any other devices for charging the leisure battery from the vehicle system apart from this very short list.

1. a split charge relay.
2. A Self Switching Combi Master.
3. A Sterling Battery to Battery charger. 

1. Is too basic and I haven't got easy access to the 'D' terminal on my alternator (if indeed it has one :roll: )
2. Had one it worked for six months then started going wrong, currently waiting a FOC replacement. 
3. Too expensive, haven't got room for it and my wiring couldn't take it.

Thanks


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## teckie (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi Frank... I remember talking to a guy several years ago on a rally and he had a large LDV Van converted into a motorhome and fitted to the front of the radiator was what looked like an additional 12v cooling fan... but in fact it was a wind charger for his leisure battery and it also acted as an additional cooling fan for the radiator and just worked from the wind whilst travelling !. That's all I can tell you about it.

Sounds a good idea to me... but there again you have to be on the move for it to work.

Teckie


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

I am not sure why you think that a split charge relay is too basic. I would have thought that it was more or less ideal.
There is a circuit with a power diode BUT you drop 0.7V so it is not very satisfactory.
I do not know how much you want to take apart but you could probably pick up the feed to the coil to the split charge relay from the dash board at the charge warning light or from the fridge relay. I think that you must have the wire somewhere.


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## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> Yes I know I'm the one normally dishing out the advice but on this occasion.....
> 
> Does anyone know of, or have any experience with, any other devices for charging the leisure battery from the vehicle system apart from this very short list.
> 
> ...


Just a thought Frank,
I've got one of those "jump start" leads with a cigarette lighter at both ends for using another vehicle to charge your own vehicle battery.

If it was plugged in to the vehicle and habitation sockets, then it should charge the hab battery from the vehicle alternator. Might be worth a go.

Cheers,
Alan


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## fransgrandad (Dec 7, 2007)

*Help please leisure battery*

Hi Frank,

Try www.adverc.co.uk

Very knowledgeable on all sorts of battery managment systems, I fitted a unit to the Auto-Trail that I had, worked well Mike speaks volts amps and all the things you hold dear.

They are held in high esteem by the boating world, experts on narrow boats, powering washing machines ect from basic 12 volt alternator.

Les

Mod note .... one too many dots in the link ...works now :wink:


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

A am afraid the link seems to be dead.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Having frank ask a question on batteries, is like






discovering Col. Sanders is a vegetarian.


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## 90487 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Frank,

What about one one these? VSR relay

This is the 100 amp version but other marine chandlers sell the 50 amp one which is more than adequate for most vans, as the alternators rarely put out the full 90amp stated output with factory van wiring :roll:

Similar to a split charge diode but does not have the voltage drop. It monitors the starter battery voltage and automatically connects the leisure battery when it senses 13.8V. When the engine is off it disconnects the leisure battery when the starter battery falls below 12.5V

P.S check ebay. I picked up a new one for about £30 :lol:

Carol


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

A quite silly way you could rig up if desperate, small inverter on engine battery with a decent charger plugged charging the leisure battery.

Or the stylish way, a large polished brass and wood knife switch connecting the two together. Bonus points if you find a sound generator that makes THAT main hum and crackle.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

safariboy said:


> I am not sure why you think that a split charge relay is too basic. I would have thought that it was more or less ideal.
> There is a circuit with a power diode BUT you drop 0.7V so it is not very satisfactory.
> I do not know how much you want to take apart but you could probably pick up the feed to the coil to the split charge relay from the dash board at the charge warning light or from the fridge relay. I think that you must have the wire somewhere.


Compressor fridge no fridge relay.

Alternator doesn't feed to one side of 'ignition' light as in days of yore 

In fact not even sure alternator has a D+ output.

What Danbury did, bless em was find a feed, live, when ignition was on and used that (so it batteries were joined all time ignition was on including start). I've looked and can not find the equivalent wire either, neither could Renault help.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

witch said:


> Hi Frank,
> 
> What about one one these? VSR relay
> 
> ...


Yes in essence that what the Combi master is, a VSR, it only cost £15 which is why it probably failed  Antares do a similar one to the one you've linked to as well I now find.


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## 90487 (May 1, 2005)

witch said:


> P.S check ebay. I picked up a new one for about £30 :lol:
> Carol


here is one 

140 amp more than enough :lol:

Carol


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

hilldweller said:


> A quite silly way you could rig up if desperate, small inverter on engine battery with a decent charger plugged charging the leisure battery.
> 
> Or the stylish way, a large polished brass and wood knife switch connecting the two together. Bonus points if you find a sound generator that makes THAT main hum and crackle.


Yes in essence that is what the Sterling B2B charger is.

As for the knife switch a bit too gothic, suit a van with stained glass windows or one like this


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

witch said:


> witch said:
> 
> 
> > P.S check ebay. I picked up a new one for about £30 :lol:
> ...


Carol

Just a point the particular type is a 'dual sense' so as it comes will connect the two batteries together whenever either is being charged.

Good if you want it like that. Easy to arrange an overide.


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## Ifor (Oct 21, 2006)

You can make your own voltage sensing relay by combining a standard beefy relay with a cheap caravan style smartcom split charger which in itself is not mush use as it's only somthing like 15A and liable to burn out unless you kill your charging performance with thin wire. but it dose a perfectly good job of switching the relay...


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## Bigmal666 (May 1, 2005)

*charging the battery*

The methods you mention are the cheapest in terms of purchaseing additional equipment to do the job, however there is at least one other method that I am aware of called the EFOY system.
This provides you with a unit that is topped up with the approvpriate chemical and provides a certain amount of electricity depending on the size of the unit.
EFOY as fare a I am aware is the trade name they have a web site which you should look up but be warned purchasing their system is not cheap!
Once purchased and installed you get very cost effective power
Other options include the various types of fitted of plug in portable solor panels.
I haven't used any of the avobe methods, I have a fitted split cell charger and have 2 other pieces of equipment for emergency, one is a motor cycle battery charger designed for maintaining battery condition. This works perfectly and an electric jump start box, although this is specifially for the engine batery.


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## fransgrandad (Dec 7, 2007)

safariboy said:


> A am afraid the link seems to be dead.


It works from Google just put in adverc,

Les


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Ifor said:


> You can make your own voltage sensing relay by combining a standard beefy relay with a cheap caravan style smartcom split charger which in itself is not mush use as it's only somthing like 15A and liable to burn out unless you kill your charging performance with thin wire. but it dose a perfectly good job of switching the relay...


Yes thats what I was thinking about doing, unfortunately the thin wire comes courtesy of the van converter and it follows a difficult route. I just can't reach it unless i was to lift the van up. Don't have much ground clearance.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Frank

How about one of these Xantrex Echo Charger << ...seems to do just what you want and need.

Available in UK from Here << a bit pricey though :wink:

_( Quote from second link = Significantly reduced cable size running to the bow battery (5 sq mm instead of 100+ sq mm) _..... for bow battery read leisure battery :wink:

Mike


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike I read this when you posted and have been back since. Not sure it does do what I want exactly. Its designed for a charging vehicle/starter type battery from the 'house' battery which when it is connected to a charger.

a quote

_Xantrex' digital echo~charge is designed to charge auxiliary or starting batteries from an inverter/charger or other charging source with limited voltage drop_

I want to do the opposite and as DABs always says the devil is in the detail. I would need to see the switching hysteresis figures first, anyway I've contacted them.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Frank

Keep working on it ... I am sure you will find the right way to do it. "Necessity is the mother of ........." I am sure you know the ending :lol: 

mike


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

*SPLIT CHARGING*

Please don,t underestimate how effective conventional split charging can be. To ensure it works at its best you need to use substantially thicker cables for the feed to the leisure battery than most MH converters fit. Also the main pick up point for the split charging relay is best if its the alternator B+ (big fat) terminal rather than the other end of the cable at the starter battery. Similarly fat cables for the chassis connections.

If you cannot access the D+ terminal (originally ignition warning light) then there is another way.
Connect the coil of the split charging relay between the ON and the START positions of the key switch. When you have the key switch turned ON there will be a positive at one end of the relay coil, the other end of the coil will find negative via the starter solenoid and will have no effect on such solenoid as the current is so small. However when you turn the key to the START position BOTH ends of the split charging relay will be at battery positive so it will drop out while you are chanking over the engine.

If you don,t want to try this then there is a third method using the alternator output "w" designed for a tacho but it requires some small diodes and a capacitor.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Would that be SEVEL based advice Clive  ?

For example on a Trafic the starter battery is under the passenger seat, that is much closer to the Leisure battery than the alternator, so it makes more sense to mount the split charging relay/system there and take its feed from the battery terminal if only to avoid taking another heavy cable forward into the engine compartment on a vehicle still covered by a warranty. 

Good advice about the starter switch though I'll have to take a decko to see what sort of connector(s) it has on mine.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

With the starter battery under the passengers seat its even more important that the pick up for the split charging does NOT come from there but directly from the alternator. The reason is that the voltage drop in the cable feeding the starter battery from the alternator is imposed on top of anything feeding the leisure battery. Running a longer (and thicker) wire directly to the alternator for the split charging will improve things.
C.


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