# Poll results on 3.0ltr Fiat Judder



## DJP (May 9, 2005)

As you have probably seen, I posted a poll on this and 2 other forums (sorry) to get some feedback on the judder problem. 
My own 3.0 ltr does have a judder in reverse and 1st. I first reported the problem to my dealer in November 2008 when the van was new. My judder was confirmed by the technician. A case number was given. In Septemeber 09 I received a letter from Fiat UK which stated that no fault had been found on any 3.0 ltr Fiat. I arranged then for another visit to the dealer 1 year on in November 09. The vehicle was again tested (by another technician) and agreed a judder was still present. In February 2010 I visited the NEC and had discussions with Fiat UK staff who arranged one of their technicians to test the vehicle. This happened last week. The test was extensive and I was allowed to demonstrate the judder to their engineer. I was also allowed to sit in the van with the Fiat UK engineer and the local dealer technician. We did numerous hill starts in forward and reverse and also had the vehicle weighed. I could demonstrate the judder at every point, or not, by slipping the clutch. The Fiat UK engineer also created the judder in both forwards and reverse gears and could also avoid it by slipping the clutch. I expressed my concern that by overcoming the judder by slipping the clutch was not acceptable as the life of the clutch would be reduced. Also, by not slipping the clutch, felt it was possible to cause other damage. At the end of the road test the engineer said, and I quote "I do not think you have a problem with your van" "the life of the clutch will not be greatly affected by the amount of time or distance you actually reverse in this vehicle"
I asked him to send me his report including those 2 statements in writing. The reply was that his report was an internal Fiat report and I would not get a copy. I am still waiting for comment from Fiat UK.
Anyway, the reason for the poll was that during the conversations with the Fiat guy, he stated that there had been no reports of judder to his knowledge on 3.0 ltr WITH Comfortmatic gearchange. This lead on to further conversations which I was informed that the gearbox in the manual and the gearbox in the Comformatic is IDENTICAL and has the same ratios and the only difference is a box bolted on the gearbox which actually operates the clutch for you. This is done with clever electronics and a mechanical action.
SO, is this box more resonsive than our brains?
The result of the poll was 24 people responded 22 had NO JUDDER!
Does this mean the Comformatic box is actually slipping the clutch? Something we do not want to do ourselves? Or is there another reason why it should not judder? I am now totally confused about my next course of action.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

My position is similar, my van judders forwards and backwards every time we move off. New clutch at 15,800 miles. I have been given the run around by Fiat for over a year now. They have no intention of dealing with the problem in the 3 litre, Alan.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

I agree its very confusing and it is likely that the computer is able to work things better than a human. But an auto does impose less clutch wear than a manual so overall the clutch should last longer.

This is the best thing I've read about the Comfortmatic. Make up your own mind. In the end I bought one as the feedback has been very positive..

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2008/cars/fiat_professional/11/ducato_australia/0411.html

If you want to buy one you will have a 4 to 6 month wait.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Oh dear DJP i do feel for you and as satisfied as we personally have been with both our Fiat manual and our Fiat Comfortmatic gearbox, I know I would feel as equally concerned and as frustrated as you understandably are if we too were subject to the same issues! I truly do not know where you go from here though, as you appear to have exhausted every avenue!  Have you taken legal advice over this matter, as maybe a solicitor would be able to advise you if there is anything else you could do?

Good luck and I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

Sue


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

Hi Sue
I am just waiting to get Fiats official response following the Fiat UK engineers report. Then I will have to decide what to do next :? 
It does not look good, as the Comfortmatic with the same gearbox does not judder (in 90% of the cases in my short poll). 
A good argument now rests with it being down to my/our driving style?
The only possible "good" point from the test engineer was the comment "I don't think you have a problem........" Whether that is the way it is entered into his report, I very much doubt. :roll:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I have found that by slipping the clutch you can reduce the judder somewhat, however that also reduces clutch life. Bearing in mind that your dual mass flywheel (unlike a traditional one) is not a big lump of metal, rather it has a metal face with gubbins behind it, it heats up quickly and retains the heat for much longer as it is not effectively dissipated by conduction. 

In my opinion slipping the clutch will dramatically shorten clutch life, imagine getting into that habit and then getting caught in a good old stop start traffic jam, sufficient to stuff your clutch in one go I think, Alan.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

DJP

AA/RAC Examination?
Would your garage technician provide a statement that in his view the only way to avoid judder is slipping the clutch but this would shorten the clutch life?

Armed with either or both of these, a visit to a solicitor (as Sue says) would surely help your case.

It may be that Fiat would have the final say but at the very least you would be in a position to assemble evidence that Fiat should finance any clutch repairs/renewal as a result of having to slip the clutch (on their own advice)

Just a thought.

And you imply that two comfortmatics DID have judder? Not 100 percent success then? Any idea what Fiat says about those two??


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Trouble is with polls such as this, you do not know if the people responding to them are genuine or not. I am not suggesting they are untrue or the people who have voted have not experienced what they claim but anyone could just come along and click on yes or no and we have no way of knowing if they are authentic or not. :? 

I think both the voters who claim to have experienced the judder on the new Comfortmatic ought to reveal their identities and expand further on the problems they are having or have experienced.

Sue


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