# Help needed



## Wupert

Dear Swifts

I took delivery of my new Autocruise Oakmont approx 2 months ago from Lee & Turner Bridgend

It should have been supplied with a reversing camera that had sound and night vision but it came with a cheaper version with no sound.

A replacement was sent but turned out to be the same cheaper version. Could you please check this out for me as your customer service tell me you are entitled to change your vehicle spec whenever you want. Your/my Oakmont spec lists the sound version

I damaged the rear of the M/H 2 weeks ago Lee & Turner body shop have been waiting for the parts required for 10 days.

I would be grateful if you could chase things up for me

Wups


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## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Dear Swifts
> 
> I took delivery of my new Autocruise Oakmont approx 2 months ago from Lee & Turner Bridgend
> 
> It should have been supplied with a reversing camera that had sound and night vision but it came with a cheaper version with no sound.
> 
> A replacement was sent but turned out to be the same cheaper version. Could you please check this out for me as your customer service tell me you are entitled to change your vehicle spec whenever you want. Your/my Oakmont spec lists the sound version
> 
> I damaged the rear of the M/H 2 weeks ago Lee & Turner body shop have been waiting for the parts required for 10 days.
> 
> I would be grateful if you could chase things up for me
> 
> Wups


I've phoned Swift Customer service again

They say they will look into this but refused to pass me up the ladder.

Not what I expect with a Trading Standards issue

Wups


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## Wupert

I've phoned Swift Customer service again

They say they will look into this but refused to pass me up the ladder.

Not what I expect with a Trading Standards issue

Wups[/quote]

93 views none from Swift apparently

Wups


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## gaspode

Hi Wupert

Patience is a virtue. :wink:


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Swift not so Swift then


Dave p


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## SwiftGroup

Wups,

I have seen your posts, only in time to see your second post though.

From what you have said, you have already contacted our Customer Care team, and have the answer to your questions. I assume that you also asked regarding your spare parts, and that they are looking into it.

I am not sure what else I can add, other than, if you wish, drop me a PM with your details, and I will pass them on.

Thanks,

Ash


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## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wups,
> 
> I have seen your posts, only in time to see your second post though.
> 
> From what you have said, you have already contacted our Customer Care team, and have the answer to your questions. I assume that you also asked regarding your spare parts, and that they are looking into it.
> 
> I am not sure what else I can add, other than, if you wish, drop me a PM with your details, and I will pass them on.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


I dont have an answer

I was told that you would look into it

Nothing has happened since I contacted you some weeks ago other than you have recently removed the description of the reversing camera from your internet spec

My/Your Autocruise Driving Range Spec Spec still says

Lux pack

Colour reversing camera with Infra Red Night vision and sound

Unhappy Wups


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## 94055

> Not what I expect with a Trading Standards issue


Surely stating this in such a short time may be the reason.



> but refused to pass me up the ladder


Are they waiting for a reply from Lee & Turner Bridgend



> I damaged the rear of the M/H 2 weeks ago Lee & Turner body shop have been waiting for the parts required for 10 days


Are you 100% correct with that statement?

Many companies do not keep parts and they need ordering.

Look at the time scale


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## SwiftGroup

Wups,

Without your details, I can't advise on the status of your parts.

However, the camera fitted to your Oakmont has not changed during the 2009 season. Occasionally, we are forced to change the specification of a vehicle due to manufacturing and supply issued. We do make this clear in our brochures and selling literature, as the time between you ordering a product and us building the product can be a few months.

Where we do this, we try to offer our customers an equal or upgraded replacement, but with any electronic device, the specification from the supplier can change with almost no notice.

Again without your details, I assume you have the LCD rear view mirror fitted, with the Tom Tom Sat Nav. If this is the case, we have had to change the Sat Nav unit, and in doing so, gave our customers the "upgrade" of having a rear view mirror that displays an image constantly. Unfortunately, a sound output is not available from this mirror.

Thanks,

Ash


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## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wups,
> 
> Without your details, I can't advise on the status of your parts.
> 
> However, the camera fitted to your Oakmont has not changed during the 2009 season. Occasionally, we are forced to change the specification of a vehicle due to manufacturing and supply issued. We do make this clear in our brochures and selling literature, as the time between you ordering a product and us building the product can be a few months.
> 
> Where we do this, we try to offer our customers an equal or upgraded replacement, but with any electronic device, the specification from the supplier can change with almost no notice.
> 
> Again without your details, I assume you have the LCD rear view mirror fitted, with the Tom Tom Sat Nav. If this is the case, we have had to change the Sat Nav unit, and in doing so, gave our customers the "upgrade" of having a rear view mirror that displays an image constantly. Unfortunately, a sound output is not available from this mirror.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


Your spec says sound and IR

The dealer and myself expected this

You simply need to replace my system monitor

Ref parts I had Chausson spares delivered in 2 days

My exchange MH had a top of the range set up which had the dealer or myself known we would have swapped.

I have PM'd you

Wups


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## Wupert

SandJ said:


> Not what I expect with a Trading Standards issue
> 
> 
> 
> Surely stating this in such a short time may be the reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but refused to pass me up the ladder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are they waiting for a reply from Lee & Turner Bridgend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I damaged the rear of the M/H 2 weeks ago Lee & Turner body shop have been waiting for the parts required for 10 days
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you 100% correct with that statement?
> 
> Many companies do not keep parts and they need ordering.
> 
> Look at the time scale
Click to expand...

When anyone spends £57000 on a vehicle one expects service

To take 10 days to supply a side light and edge strip is a bit off

A new fridge is being fitted next week as the original did not work on 240 V

The water pipes in the shower area leaked on first use and flooded the living area

Top stuff

My first ref to trading standards was today some 8 weeks after my initial contact with Swift

Of course I'm sure of my facts

Wups


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## 94055

> When anyone spends £57000 on a vehicle one expects service
> 
> To take 10 days to supply a side light and edge strip is a bit off


Was this working on delivery?



> A new fridge is being fitted next week as the original did not work on 240 V


It had a proper pre delivery inspection then?



> The water pipes in the shower area leaked on first use and flooded the living area


It had a proper pre delivery inspection then?



> Top stuff
> 
> My first ref to trading standards was today some 8 weeks after my initial contact with Swift
> 
> Of course I'm sure of my facts
> 
> Wups


If more details had been put into your initial post I would have posted differently. It seemed as if you wanted an immediate response, as first post was only this afternoon.

I am unable to grasp why you have to post on here if you are already in correspondence with Swift.



> Of course I'm sure of my facts


I have the Camera set up that you are requesting and would gladly swop it with you. It is not a cheaper option and it is far superior to the one I have.


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## Wupert

SandJ said:


> When anyone spends £57000 on a vehicle one expects service
> 
> Was this working on delivery?
> 
> Please read my posts properly I damaged the side light and it requires replacing
> 
> They are on sale with a 24 hour delivery on many accessory sites. but because of insurance/warranty Swift need to supply replacement
> 
> The same applies to the side strip
> 
> Wups
Click to expand...


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## Wupert

SandJ said:


> When anyone spends £57000 on a vehicle one expects service
> 
> To take 10 days to supply a side light and edge strip is a bit off
> 
> 
> 
> Was this working on delivery?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new fridge is being fitted next week as the original did not work on 240 V
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It had a proper pre delivery inspection then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The water pipes in the shower area leaked on first use and flooded the living area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It had a proper pre delivery inspection then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top stuff
> 
> My first ref to trading standards was today some 8 weeks after my initial contact with Swift
> 
> Of course I'm sure of my facts
> 
> Wups
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If more details had been put into your initial post I would have posted differently. It seemed as if you wanted an immediate response, as first post was only this afternoon.
> 
> I am unable to grasp why you have to post on here if you are already in correspondence with Swift.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I'm sure of my facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have the Camera set up that you are requesting and would gladly swop it with you. It is not a cheaper option and it is far superior to the one I have.
Click to expand...

I see you have a Swift MH but no other info on your profile

My son who is in senior management with a Blue Chip company is reading your posts and laughing.

He points out that many companies have staff who job it is to refute complaints on sites like this

I'm starting to think you could be something to do with the Swift Organisation

Your posts to someone you dont know and who has spent £57000 plus on a British MH are odd to say the least

You keep on bumping me to the top

Keep up your good work

Happier Wups


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## 94055

Bump


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## GerryD

Wupert,
I have to say that SandJ is right, obviously your motorhome was not PDI'd correctly before delivery and the handover must have left a lot to be desired. If so many faults were found immediately after delivery, they should have been evident at handover. Or did you accept the van without a handover?
Regarding the parts, you are dealing with the biggest cottage industry in Europe, and one that has never yet managed an efficient parts service.

Is there a reason why so many people have to tell the world how much they have paid for their motorhome? Does it somehow give them a superior position or does it make them feel good. It makes no difference whether you have spent £5,000 or £150,000 you are entitled to the same level of service. Unfortunately in the leisure industry it would normally be very poor.
Gerry


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## geraldandannie

GerryD said:


> It makes no difference whether you have spent £5,000 or £150,000 you are entitled to the same level of service.


Of course, you're right Gerry. However, spending £5,000 on a motorhome might lead you to expect a few problems. Spending as much as Wupert did, I would have hoped that there was enough money in the van to enable BOTH the dealer and the manufacturer to eradicate simple but fairly major problems like: 


> A new fridge is being fitted next week as the original did not work on 240 V. The water pipes in the shower area leaked on first use and flooded the living area


These are easy things to check, and I would hope that both the manufacturer and the dealer would make sure that these items were on a tick list. It would be interesting to see their PDI check list (if there is one :roll: ).

If you spent £57,000 on a brand new car, would you expect to have had everything checked before being handed over? If there were problems like this, would you expect for _someone_ to pull out all the stops to get the thing fixed double quick (with something in the form of compensation for the inconvenience)? I suppose someone will say 'how complicated modern motorhomes are'. A fridge not working and pipes leaking are not 'complicated' issues.

Gerald


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## Wupert

GerryD said:


> Wupert,
> I have to say that SandJ is right, obviously your motorhome was not PDI'd correctly before delivery and the handover must have left a lot to be desired. If so many faults were found immediately after delivery, they should have been evident at handover. Or did you accept the van without a handover?
> Regarding the parts, you are dealing with the biggest cottage industry in Europe, and one that has never yet managed an efficient parts service.
> 
> Is there a reason why so many people have to tell the world how much they have paid for their motorhome? Does it somehow give them a superior position or does it make them feel good. It makes no difference whether you have spent £5,000 or £150,000 you are entitled to the same level of service. Unfortunately in the leisure industry it would normally be very poor.
> Gerry


The M/H was given a very good thorough PDI by the dealer and a full and proper hand over took place all to my satisfaction.

I would not expect poorly fitted pipes that are hidden behind sealed covers to be checked by the dealer

Had pressure tests been done by Swift faulty fitted water pipes would/should have been discovered.

Neither you or Sandj address the fact that the Reversing camera fitted is not the one described in any of their recent sales literature and an obviously cheaper version has replaced it

The fridge was demonstrated to me at hand over and indicated on its control panel that it was working

It was only when I put it onto 240V prior to leaving for France that I discovered it was faulty

(See my thread under technical)

I apologize if mentioning the price/cost upsets you. But Swifts state the Drive series is top of their range and IMO as such costing £?????
should by up to standard

I agree with you that whatever the cost of an article is that article should be fit for purpose.

Having been a caravaner/camper motor-homer for over 50 years and never had problems with spare part replacement in that timeI am unable to accept your explanation about supply difficulties

A quality company will have a supply set up in place.

As I pointed out earlier Spares for my previous MH a Chaussons arrived in 48 hrs

All that the Repair/body shop need is 1 rear side light and 2m of outside plastic strip.

My argument is with Swift.

Lets hope something gets sorted today

Wups


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## Wupert

geraldandannie said:


> GerryD said:
> 
> 
> 
> It makes no difference whether you have spent £5,000 or £150,000 you are entitled to the same level of service.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you're right Gerry. However, spending £5,000 on a motorhome might lead you to expect a few problems. Spending as much as Wupert did, I would have hoped that there was enough money in the van to enable BOTH the dealer and the manufacturer to eradicate simple but fairly major problems like:
> 
> 
> 
> A new fridge is being fitted next week as the original did not work on 240 V. The water pipes in the shower area leaked on first use and flooded the living area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These are easy things to check, and I would hope that both the manufacturer and the dealer would make sure that these items were on a tick list. It would be interesting to see their PDI check list (if there is one :roll: ).
> 
> If you spent £57,000 on a brand new car, would you expect to have had everything checked before being handed over? If there were problems like this, would you expect for _someone_ to pull out all the stops to get the thing fixed double quick (with something in the form of compensation for the inconvenience)? I suppose someone will say 'how complicated modern motorhomes are'. A fridge not working and pipes leaking are not 'complicated' issues.
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

Thanks Gerald

This is exactly my point

Wups


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## 94055

I and I suppose many of you have bought a new home. (building not mobile)

I and many others have paid a lot more for the home than the stated £57,000.

May I ask the members that have bought a new home, was it 100%? I know the answer most of the time is no. They have snagging lists, the same can be said for shops, factories and the like.

Once work is complete they snag the finished item (P.D.I.) Then a snag list is created and the works (snag list) completed. Guess what, a second, third snag list is often required. It is the same with many items.

I am not going to go into the specific items raised on here, what I will say is that my offer of a swop for reversing camera was a genuine one. The newer (mirror) one is far superior. That is in price, quality and IMO.



> I see you have a Swift MH but no other info on your profile


What else would you like to know?



> My son who is in senior management with a Blue Chip company is reading your posts and laughing.


I am amazed at that statement, I and many others are now laughing at his expense.



> He points out that many companies have staff who job it is to refute complaints on sites like this


He is correct, Swift may do it but I believe not.



> I'm starting to think you could be something to do with the Swift Organisation


Why? Surely your son would have done his homework before laughing?
I am not going to make it easy for you, except to say I do not work for Swift. (I am open to offers though :wink: )



> Your posts to someone you dont know and who has spent £57000 plus on a British MH are odd to say the least


You are posting to who?
£57,000.....or as said ....less. What difference is that?



> You keep on bumping me to the top


Glad to help



> Keep up your good work
> 
> Happier Wups


Your wish is my command

Have you visited the Swift factory and observed the manufacture?

Now slightly off topic, hands up who has had a faulghty

Washing machine
Tv
Car
House
Motorbike
Garage
Trailer
Furniture

Pension
mortgage
Investment

the list is endless
All the above I have seen faults on them, the Pension, mortgage and Investment were all suggested by experts but failed.

As to other comments, answer all questions not just selected.



> but because of insurance/warranty Swift need to supply replacement


Items can be replaced as long as genuine parts are used, if available off the shelf then it is not a warranty issue. Is it?

I had to replace my gas regulator, it should not have failed but did. It was a Truma part and the easiest way to sort was nto buy a new one. (Or i lost the use of motorhome, it was not Swifts fault)

So

Bump


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## Wupert

SandJ said:


> I and I suppose many of you have bought a new home. (building not mobile)
> 
> I and many others have paid a lot more for the home than the stated £57,000.
> 
> May I ask the members that have bought a new home, was it 100%? I know the answer most of the time is no. They have snagging lists, the same can be said for shops, factories and the like.
> 
> Once work is complete they snag the finished item (P.D.I.) Then a snag list is created and the works (snag list) completed. Guess what, a second, third snag list is often required. It is the same with many items.
> 
> I am not going to go into the specific items raised on here, what I will say is that my offer of a swop for reversing camera was a genuine one. The newer (mirror) one is far superior. That is in price, quality and IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you have a Swift MH but no other info on your profile
> 
> 
> 
> What else would you like to know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son who is in senior management with a Blue Chip company is reading your posts and laughing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am amazed at that statement, I and many others are now laughing at his expense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He points out that many companies have staff who job it is to refute complaints on sites like this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is correct, Swift may do it but I believe not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to think you could be something to do with the Swift Organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? Surely your son would have done his homework before laughing?
> I am not going to make it easy for you, except to say I do not work for Swift. (I am open to offers though :wink: )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts to someone you dont know and who has spent £57000 plus on a British MH are odd to say the least
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are posting to who?
> £57,000.....or as said ....less. What difference is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep on bumping me to the top
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Glad to help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep up your good work
> 
> Happier Wups
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your wish is my command
> 
> Have you visited the Swift factory and observed the manufacture?
> 
> Now slightly off topic, hands up who has had a faulghty
> 
> Washing machine
> Tv
> Car
> House
> Motorbike
> Garage
> Trailer
> Furniture
> 
> Pension
> mortgage
> Investment
> 
> the list is endless
> All the above I have seen faults on them, the Pension, mortgage and Investment were all suggested by experts but failed.
> 
> As to other comments, answer all questions not just selected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but because of insurance/warranty Swift need to supply replacement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Items can be replaced as long as genuine parts are used, if available off the shelf then it is not a warranty issue. Is it?
> 
> I had to replace my gas regulator, it should not have failed but did. It was a Truma part and the easiest way to sort was nto buy a new one. (Or i lost the use of motorhome, it was not Swifts fault)
> 
> So
> 
> Bump
Click to expand...

An interesting but rather poorly thought out and constructed post.

The issue is about my Motor home not your house or gas regulator..

Swift have been in touch this morning and are extremely apologetic accepting fault for the water leak and faulty fridge.

This does not in anyway explain their lack of checks during build

Despite this they are refusing to do anything about the reversing system

They are also chasing up the needed spares.

You certainly are coming over as a Swift employee and I fail to see why you need to post in defence of a company that is letting a customer down

Wups


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## CliveMott

I continue to be dissapointed how UK MH manufacturers (in general) seem to have little detailed comprehensive final inspection / checks in place and seem to rely on the local dealer or as has been clearly demonstrated here with the water leaks the end customer to carry out this function for them.

We must do better else even more vans will come from central Europe.

How long before we have quality motorhomes built in China?

C.


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## geraldandannie

Wupert said:


> You certainly are coming over as a Swift employee and I fail to see why you need to post in defence of a company that is letting a customer down


AFAIK, Steve isn't a Swift employee. He's a Swift devotee (nothing wrong in that) and a refuter of Swift complaints (nothing wrong in that once you realise he does it often).

Snagging lists are to help the builder complete the job, and are compiled and checked _before_ the keys are handed over. Lots of the other analogies aren't quite right either - mass-produced consumer items with low value are a different kettle of fish to a hand-made, high value motorhome. Pensions, mortgages and investments don't go wrong the first time you take them out.

Cars are put through an automated, electronic check at the factory, and then they're put on a rolling road to test that everything works as it should. That's not to say faults can't creep through the system. But as someone posted a couple of days ago, certain motorhomes have a profit of £18,000 in them. I don't know what Wupert's was, but it must be in the thousands of pounds. With obvious issues like this, why can't the manufacturer and dealer work together to ensure that, _between them_ they pay one person for a day to check all the systems are functioning correctly?

Cost? Let's say you employ a technician who understands the systems, and with NI and on-costs, they could cost £50k per year maximum. You should get 200 days work from them, so a day spent systems checking would cost £250. Just imagine the kudos you would get if you could produce a detailed report on all of the habitation systems, including a water spray test to check for leaks. A cooling graph for the fridge on its various power sources. A heating graph for the radiators / blown air. 10 minutes spraying the outside with water, with damp check readings at various places. Electrical functionality check list. A couple of hours trawling through MHF would produce a huge list of potential faults, all of which could be checked and eradicated before handover.

_Surely_ they can afford that?

Gerald


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## geraldandannie

CliveMott said:


> I continue to be dissapointed how UK MH manufacturers (in general) seem to have little detailed comprehensive final inspection / checks in place and seem to rely on the local dealer or as has been clearly demonstrated here with the water leaks the end customer to carry out this function for them.


We're singing from the same hymnsheet, Clive :wink:

Gerald


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## 94055

> The M/H was given a very good thorough PDI by the dealer and a full and proper hand over took place all to my satisfaction.


If you say so, how many times have we had the above statement made on here?

If it was to your satisfaction then why complain about reversing camera later? Why did you not refuse the motorhome? Why not have it written down by dealer?

So yet another member says a comment like " I have had a crap service from Swift, but as soon as I come and air my complaint on here. All is now tickety boo. (except the camera in your case, the offer to swap is still open)



> why you need to post in defence of a company that is letting a customer down


I stated earlier do your homework

I will give you a little clue, I have had problems and have had to deal with them. I do not air them problems for all to see. I have had my problems resolved. As to the dealer 8O

I will leave you in the hands of Swift

........................................................................................................

"Poorly thought out and constructed"

We will have the grammar and spelling lot next. :roll:

I think it is a change of signature time

Have a look

Edited to add:
Where is Tell?


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## steco1958

I see that this post got a little personal, I hope one and all enjoyed it.

Just one small point though 

Wups,

You actually have no claim on Swift, your contract is with your supplier (Motor Home Dealer), it is with him that all these shortfalls should be directed to, and then the dealer will pass them on the the manufacturer it is only that swift wish to get involved by means of this site and by providing an aftersales service(sorry to use that word ) that you get to speak to them.

Steve


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## roger-the-lodger

geraldandannie said:


> ...With obvious issues like this, why can't the manufacturer and dealer work together to ensure that, _between them_ they pay one person for a day to check all the systems are functioning correctly?...Gerald


Gerald thanks for a clear and constructive post that hits several nails on heads and makes a positive suggestion! 

Sadly the "spat factor" in several previous posts has not served well the cause of understanding the problems underlying Wupert's experience. As I have posted several times elsewhere, IMO there are at least two serious pitfalls for buyers of motorhomes, both of which are essentially industry problems:

1. The dealer model is broken is several respects - poor quality of many dealers, reliance on dealer you bought from for habitation warranty work (RIP Discover, Carlisle  in my case), separate vehicle-side / hab-side dealers and workshops, probable geographical distance of a competent and responsive dealer etc. etc.

2. Build quality of a complex product shows much room for improvement, not just with Swift products but more widely (including "Central European" converters). However much is done to try to improve (and sustain improvement in) manufacturing process quality and component quality, final inspection will be important and from the experience of many buyers is clearly failing far too often.

We were naive when we bought our MH (Bessacarr E560) though we are far from naive in other areas of life. The dealer "handover" was a joke and I suspect any PDI was cursory. We relied on luck and the roulette wheel stopped at the right number - we have had no significant problems in our first year of ownership. Mind you, if we have any now that we can't easily fix ourselves, we have to ponder where on earth to take the vehicle for a fix! :roll:

So the whole buying experience is basically a lottery.

I have done the Swift factory tour with the eye of someone with lots of manufacturing industry experience. It seemed tidy and basically competent but the devil always lies in the detail. If product goes out with fridges not working on mains there's clearly something wrong. Some of the woodwork fastening on our 'van is laughably poor - several things have understandably parted company, fortunately in a way that is easily fixed at home simply be re-doing the job properly! I really do doubt that many competitors' products are any better; as I said it's an industry problem.

Swift's "working with" dealers is so poor as to be basically non-existent.

A last point - there's certainly a case for spending more money on final inspection at the expense of margin and in the interest of product quality. But in the present climate Swift and their competitors will be looking to get cost out not add it in. I suspect they would need to be convinced that any quality improvement from that added cost would increase market share or reduce their (not the dealer's) after-sales and warranty costs. But Gerald's idea is interesting as it would seem to cost so little.

I wonder how much would it save Swift in customer service costs (including the MD sometimes posting on a web forum) and warranty costs.

Roger


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## 94055

steco1958 said:


> I see that this post got a little personal,


Steve, 
Not from me,

I asked for answers to questions and received 1, this was to an answer that came from what was, a confusing statement.

I stated "do your homework" I have, if you check wups previous posts you will find?

Well have a look for yourself, Swift come up quite a lot of times yet he still bought one 8O

Swift provide a far superior service than some others do, yet some try to continual slate them. Why?


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## karlb

SandJ said:


> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see that this post got a little personal,
> 
> 
> 
> Steve,
> Not from me,
> 
> I asked for answers to questions and received 1, this was to an answer that came from what was, a confusing statement.
> 
> I stated "do your homework" I have, if you check wups previous posts you will find?
> 
> Well have a look for yourself, Swift come up quite a lot of times yet he still bought one 8O
> 
> Swift provide a far superior service than some others do, yet some try to continual slate them. Why?
Click to expand...

you ask why?? and then you state they offer a superior service, however when that service used for comparison is rubbish, to be slightly less rubbish is still not acceptable. it is a industry wide problem and swift being a big fish deserve a slating when you read the o/p problems. its ok blaming the dealer but if swift are happy for them to sell there product they are the face of swift ie poor and rubbish, it is still the customers perception that the new SWIFT product is faulty.


----------



## roger-the-lodger

SandJ said:


> ...Swift provide a far superior service than some others do, yet some try to continual slate them. Why?...


Easy to answer! People who have a problem with an expensive motorhome, who find the problem is not easy to fix and who suspect (often correctly) that the problem is one of build quality will "slate" the company that built it. If the problems continue, the "slating" will continue.

I think I largely agree with the first part of the quoted sentence, but this counts for little with a problem-stricken owner who feels he or she is getting nowhere. I have encountered many cases where this has happened, not just with Swift products but with other converters too. It's an industry problem made much worse by many dealers and the poor , inadequate converter/dealer relationship.

Did you read my previous post by any chance?


----------



## Wupert

steco1958 said:


> I see that this post got a little personal, I hope one and all enjoyed it.
> 
> Just one small point though
> 
> Wups,
> 
> You actually have no claim on Swift, your contract is with your supplier (Motor Home Dealer), it is with him that all these shortfalls should be directed to, and then the dealer will pass them on the the manufacturer it is only that swift wish to get involved by means of this site and by providing an aftersales service(sorry to use that word ) that you get to speak to them.
> 
> Steve


Thanks for your reply

I have just arrived home from my dealer.

He has and still is trying to get some sense out of Swifts

He assured me that he will pursue the matter

Wups


----------



## Wupert

geraldandannie said:


> CliveMott said:
> 
> 
> 
> I continue to be dissapointed how UK MH manufacturers (in general) seem to have little detailed comprehensive final inspection / checks in place and seem to rely on the local dealer or as has been clearly demonstrated here with the water leaks the end customer to carry out this function for them.
> 
> 
> 
> We're singing from the same hymnsheet, Clive :wink:
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

I've got the same sheet Gerald


----------



## Wupert

SandJ said:


> The M/H was given a very good thorough PDI by the dealer and a full and proper hand over took place all to my satisfaction.
> 
> 
> 
> If you say so, how many times have we had the above statement made on here?
> 
> If it was to your satisfaction then why complain about reversing camera later? Why did you not refuse the motorhome? Why not have it written down by dealer?
> 
> So yet another member says a comment like " I have had a crap service from Swift, but as soon as I come and air my complaint on here. All is now tickety boo. (except the camera in your case, the offer to swap is still open)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why you need to post in defence of a company that is letting a customer down
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I stated earlier do your homework
> 
> I will give you a little clue, I have had problems and have had to deal with them. I do not air them problems for all to see. I have had my problems resolved. As to the dealer 8O
> 
> I will leave you in the hands of Swift
> 
> ........................................................................................................
> 
> "Poorly thought out and constructed"
> 
> We will have the grammar and spelling lot next. :roll:
> 
> I think it is a change of signature time
> 
> Have a look
> 
> Edited to add:
> Where is Tell?
Click to expand...

Oh dear me

We did not find out about the camera until I reversed up my drive a few days later

As soon as I did we contacted the dealer who contacted Swift who sent a new monitor. Which we did not fit because it was identical to the one we already have.

Having been lucky enough in my 67 years to have owned many new cars, caravans, and four new motorhomes I think I am well qualified to go through a handover

What swap are you talking about?

IMO your posts have been ill thought out my problem is with swift not you.

Wups


----------



## 94055

> I am well qualified to go through a handover


"
We did not find out about the camera until I reversed up my drive a few days later "



> We did not find out about the camera until I reversed up my drive a few days later


I think I have mentioned it 3 times, read posts with blinkered eyes?

Re-read the posts

IMO your complaints are being dealt with, you put it on open forum. Are we just supposed to comment only if we agree with you?


----------



## Wupert

SandJ said:


> IMO your complaints are being dealt with, you put it on open forum. Are we just supposed to comment only if we agree with you?


My complaints started being dealt with by Swift yesterday evening.

Obviously my Thread has rattled the cage.

Please be kind enough to stop questioning my ability to go through a handover.

Ref your Quote finding out three days later.

This was the first time i needed help to reverse needing the microphone the picture has always been perfect.

I shall not respond to anymore of your posts as I am now dealing with the Butchers not the block.

I will however post updates as and when

Wups


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Wupert said:


> I will however post updates as and when
> Wups


Please do Wupert as I'm very interested in any response people get when they have identified MH problems. That's any response (or lack of it) either from a converter (Swift Group in this case) or a dealer.

Roger


----------



## Wupert

roger-the-lodger said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will however post updates as and when
> Wups
> 
> 
> 
> Please do Wupert as I'm very interested in any response people get when they have identified MH problems. That's any response (or lack of it) either from a converter (Swift Group in this case) or a dealer.
> 
> Roger
Click to expand...

Cheers Roger

I will keep everyone up to date.

There is very interesting info regarding the Swift Autocruise supply chain which needs time to explain

I'll do this later but it looks like the Repair shop have another 10/14 days wait for the parts.

Wups


----------



## karlb

SandJ said:


> I am well qualified to go through a handover
> 
> 
> 
> "
> We did not find out about the camera until I reversed up my drive a few days later "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We did not find out about the camera until I reversed up my drive a few days later
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I have mentioned it 3 times, read posts with blinkered eyes?
> 
> Re-read the posts
> 
> IMO your complaints are being dealt with, you put it on open forum. Are we just supposed to comment only if we agree with you?
Click to expand...

please re-read your own posts, blind faith all of the time does get a little meaningless, i know it might shock you but swift DO make mistakes and they DONT always fix them in a timely manner 8O


----------



## Wupert

I'm very disappointed with the poor Swift customer service.

Despite stating on their Sales brochures and the Autocruise website (Up until my first contact with them about 7 weeks ago) that the Drive range had Lux Pac their customer service manager Julie has told me there is no way will they replace my down graded reversing system

Going so far as to say if they do it for me everyone else will want it.....


Top PR there Swifts.



The brochure I have in front of me states

Lux Pac ..... Standard on Driving Range



Portable Sat Nav (Was Blaupunkt now Tomtom One)

Colour reversing Camera with Infra-Red NightVision and sound

etc etc etc

My Oakmont does not have sound 

I am contacting the Trading standards in the morning and will post their advice as soon as I can


----------



## SwiftGroup

Wupert,

I am aware of your conversation with Julie this morning., and I am sorry you are still disappointed.

We cannot change your system to the Blaupunkt Lucca Sat Nav, as the Lucca is no longer available. The comment regarding "everyone else will want it" is not intended to a PR exercise, it is a simple matter that the parts you require are no longer available.

In the same way, towards the end of the 2009 season, the Tom Tom V4 you have, was also made obsolete. So a number of customers were offered the Tom Tom XL as a replacement, but if they wanted a downgrade to a V4, we cannot offer this.

For this reason, and knowing that most electronic devices are made obsolete in a 9 month cycle, we make it clear in our literature that the specification of your ordered vehicle may change. In the same brochure you are referring too, regarding the specification, it will also state this fact.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## 94055

Ash

I have stated earlier
I will swop my much superior Lucca (not) for the system fitted.
But offer not taken up.

:wink:


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Wupert said:


> I'm very disappointed with the poor Swift customer service...


I think you are right to be disappointed. With the proviso that your MH is not an earlier model than the range referred to in the quoted brochure, then if the brochure says the camera system has sound, it should have sound! This is so whatever the Ts & Cs of Sale say about rights to make specification changes. There is a difference between legality (unclear in any case) and quality of customer service.

As for the CS comment you quote, it's a truism of course but nonetheless an unwise thing to say, especially when said by a manager directly to a customer.

Roger


----------



## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wupert,
> 
> I am aware of your conversation with Julie this morning., and I am sorry you are still disappointed.
> 
> We cannot change your system to the Blaupunkt Lucca Sat Nav, as the Lucca is no longer available. The comment regarding "everyone else will want it" is not intended to a PR exercise, it is a simple matter that the parts you require are no longer available.
> 
> In the same way, towards the end of the 2009 season, the Tom Tom V4 you have, was also made obsolete. So a number of customers were offered the Tom Tom XL as a replacement, but if they wanted a downgrade to a V4, we cannot offer this.
> 
> For this reason, and knowing that most electronic devices are made obsolete in a 9 month cycle, we make it clear in our literature that the specification of your ordered vehicle may change. In the same brochure you are referring too, regarding the specification, it will also state this fact.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


Hi Ash

I have no problem with the Sat Nav it is as described in your brochures

My problem is with the silence of my Reversing system

The statement about everyone will want one from your customer care beggars belief.

Your brochure clearly states and your web site clearly stated

IR and Sound ....... I would like sound please

This thread is not portraying your PR or customer care in a good light

I pm'd you as you requested last night and you have not replied

It seems you have passed the problem down wards

Wups


----------



## Wupert

SandJ said:


> Ash
> 
> I have stated earlier
> I will swop my much superior Lucca (not) for the system fitted.
> But offer not taken up.
> 
> :wink:


and you are?


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Oh Wupert, one other thing - you'll be relieved to know that I'm not offering to swap my inferior Lucca for your system.

I only use the Lucca (possibly the worst SatNav on the planet) as a screen for the reversing camera; for SatNav I use a TomTom GO 740 (with Go Live Services and HD Traffic - possibly the best SatNav on the planet). Two SatNavs makes the dash look like part of the Starship Enterprise though!  

Roger


----------



## SwiftGroup

Wups,

I am not sure what else I can now offer to this conversation. 

I have received your PM, which was mostly a copy of your post on this forum, and have (as promised) passed your message onto our Customer Care Team. I did not pass the "problem" downwards, I referred your complaint to our dedicated team, who deal with these types of issues.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## karlb

Wupert said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash
> 
> I have stated earlier
> I will swop my much superior Lucca (not) for the system fitted.
> But offer not taken up.
> 
> :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> and you are?
Click to expand...

annoying!


----------



## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wupert,
> 
> The comment regarding "everyone else will want it" is not intended to a PR exercise, it is a simple matter that the parts you require are no longer available.
> 
> Ash


How wrong you are Ash

Julie told me that the installed camera was geared for sound and if I wanted sound I should contact the firm/suppliers who will sell me the upgrade sound version. Quality PR there again

I am so disappointed in your customer care efforts to fob me off for the sake of a few pounds.

However in the morning I have an appointment with the trading standards who wish to view your brochure.

Wups

PS you will be interested in my info on Autocruise spare part supply


----------



## 94055

I am the Block (not the butcher) That you are not responding to

I offered to swop the Lucca at the beggining of this thread.

I also use a tom tom as well as others do.

I hope you resolve the problems to your satisfaction, you may now not want to swop seeing someone else has said it is inferior.


----------



## Wupert

karlb said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash
> 
> I have stated earlier
> I will swop my much superior Lucca (not) for the system fitted.
> But offer not taken up.
> 
> :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> and you are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> annoying!
Click to expand...

He certainly is

Sadly he has no grasp of the issues at stake.

What Swifts seem to be saying is order an Autocruise from us and if it turns up out of the spec you wanted.

Tough

Wups


----------



## carolgavin

Hi Wupert hunny you are sounding a tad stressed I feel. 
I can understand your frustration at not receiving what you thought you had ordered, however really your problem/issue is with your dealer! They should have pointed out that the reversing no sound whoosit was not the one mentioned in the brochure and they should have advised you accordingly. Obviously they didn't and you had to find out yourself which I imagine is why you feel somewhat cheated. They should also have advised that the items specified are subject to change according to availability and it seems obvious they did not do this either. I cannot believe that they would not have been advised this themselves by the manufacturer as it is pretty commonplace to do this.

Really you as the customer should be pressurising your dealer. they should liase with Swift, but please remember that sometimes (lots of times) the dealers blame the manufacturer for everything and probably vice versa. If it gets them off the hook with you then its a result for them innit!!

I don't really understand what you expect trading standards to do as many items are not available and this is commonplace. It is not that they are refusing to replace the parts more that there is a stock delay. Generally the brochures form part of the 'invitation to treat' and do not form part of your contract. 
I can understand why you want to speak to someone if you think it will help but it will not be swifts fault if they do not tell you what you want to hear and I fear that unfortunately this may be the case. Only my opinion however to be discarded at your leisure.

Oh I am not employed by swift paid by swift or associated with them in any way I would reply to you in exactly the same way if the vehicle was a Euramobil CI Compass or whatever. Sorry for the long post.

I hope you get your issues resolved soon.


----------



## ShinyFiat

WUPERT,whats your son working to a bluechip company got to do with it???

who cares


----------



## Wupert

carolgavin said:


> Hi Wupert hunny you are sounding a tad stressed I feel.
> I can understand your frustration at not receiving what you thought you had ordered, however really your problem/issue is with your dealer! They should have pointed out that the reversing no sound whoosit was not the one mentioned in the brochure and they should have advised you accordingly. Obviously they didn't and you had to find out yourself which I imagine is why you feel somewhat cheated. They should also have advised that the items specified are subject to change according to availability and it seems obvious they did not do this either. I cannot believe that they would not have been advised this themselves by the manufacturer as it is pretty commonplace to do this.
> 
> Really you as the customer should be pressurising your dealer. they should liase with Swift, but please remember that sometimes (lots of times) the dealers blame the manufacturer for everything and probably vice versa. If it gets them off the hook with you then its a result for them innit!!
> 
> I don't really understand what you expect trading standards to do as many items are not available and this is commonplace. It is not that they are refusing to replace the parts more that there is a stock delay. Generally the brochures form part of the 'invitation to treat' and do not form part of your contract.
> I can understand why you want to speak to someone if you think it will help but it will not be swifts fault if they do not tell you what you want to hear and I fear that unfortunately this may be the case. Only my opinion however to be discarded at your leisure.
> 
> Oh I am not employed by swift paid by swift or associated with them in any way I would reply to you in exactly the same way if the vehicle was a Euramobil CI Compass or whatever. Sorry for the long post.
> 
> I hope you get your issues resolved soon.


Hi Carol

I really dont do stress  and thanks for your concern

Along with the dealer who has been 100% with me from the minute we both realised the vehicle did not match its spec we have both been fobbed off by Swifts

My choice is to either go after a dealer who I have the greatest respect for as he and his staff have been wonderful

Or after the organisation who supplied me with goods that did not match their description in their brochure or website

We are not talking money or compensation I am fortunate to need neither

I'm talking poor quality Public Relations poor quality Customer Care

Poor quality Swift PDI

A very Poor Quality replacement spares set up its looking like 28 days for a ...Side Marker Plastic trim and one fastner button

My MH is fab I just need simple honest back up from Swifts

Believe me it just isn't there.

My annoyance is made worst by the fact that for some 30 years I have bought German & French Caravans and MH's with no problem with build or spec not a leak at all

The first time I decide British I get water leaks, failed fridge, poor CC etc etc

I'm told that next week in the NEC Swift need a dedicated complaints set up

I can see why


----------



## Wupert

ShinyFiat said:


> WUPERT,whats your son working to a bluechip company got to do with it???
> 
> who cares


And you are


----------



## RichardnGill

To put this into context

1 You are having to wait 28 days for a part.> This is quiet normal in the M/H industry and quicker than some manufactures.

2 You reversing camera has no sound> The spec change would be covered in the legal print in the brochure and if it was of so much a concern to you to have sound you could have made a point of enquiring about it with the dealer before ordering. They could have then checked the spec. of the vehicle.

For what its worth we have sound on our reversing camera but I always have it turned off as it makes no difference to me.

Why are you having such a go at the manufacture when its the dealer that you bough the van from.

We were needed a light changing on our van before we went to France and Swift cold not have been better but we did not go about putting posts on forums complaining. We just asked them and they sorted it out. See

LINK for details.

For anyone reading this and thinking SWift are not a good company to deal with, I would not worry as many other including myself are very happy with Swift.

Richard..


----------



## Briarose

RichardnGill said:


> To put this into context
> 
> 1 You are having to wait 28 days for a part.> This is quiet normal in the M/H industry and quicker than some manufactures.
> 
> 2 You reversing camera has no sound> The spec change would be covered in the legal print in the brochure and if it was of so much a concern to you to have sound you could have made a point of enquiring about it with the dealer before ordering. They could have then checked the spec. of the vehicle.
> 
> For what its worth we have sound on our reversing camera but I always have it turned off as it makes no difference to me.
> 
> Why are you having such a go at the manufacture when its the dealer that you bough the van from.
> 
> We were needed a light changing on our van before we went to France and Swift cold not have been better but we did not go about putting posts on forums complaining. We just asked them and they sorted it out. See
> 
> LINK for details.
> 
> For anyone reading this and thinking SWift are not a good company to deal with, I would not worry as many other including myself are very happy with Swift.
> 
> Richard..


I agree with Richard as Swift have been very good to us, and not everything that they have done for us is posted on here :wink:

Wupert ref PDI I thought that was up to the dealer to do not the supplier........well it was in the days my Husband sold Rover cars.


----------



## Wupert

Briarose said:


> RichardnGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> To put this into context
> 
> 1 You are having to wait 28 days for a part.> This is quiet normal in the M/H industry and quicker than some manufactures.
> 
> 2 You reversing camera has no sound> The spec change would be covered in the legal print in the brochure and if it was of so much a concern to you to have sound you could have made a point of enquiring about it with the dealer before ordering. They could have then checked the spec. of the vehicle.
> 
> For what its worth we have sound on our reversing camera but I always have it turned off as it makes no difference to me.
> 
> Why are you having such a go at the manufacture when its the dealer that you bough the van from.
> 
> We were needed a light changing on our van before we went to France and Swift cold not have been better but we did not go about putting posts on forums complaining. We just asked them and they sorted it out. See
> 
> LINK for details.
> 
> For anyone reading this and thinking SWift are not a good company to deal with, I would not worry as many other including myself are very happy with Swift.
> 
> Richard..
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Richard as Swift have been very good to us, and not everything that they have done for us is posted on here :wink:
> 
> Wupert ref PDI I thought that was up to the dealer to do not the supplier........well it was in the days my Husband sold Rover cars.
Click to expand...

You post because they sorted things out surely I can post because they have not. There is a little difference between a light bulb and a flood, a U/S fridge and the wrong reversing set up.

My water leaks and Fridge were sorted out in hours by the dealer so I have no quarrel with Lee & Turner who have been faultless

It should be normal for every manufacturer to thoroughly check the standard of work before the MH leaves the factory.

I have used the initials PDI loosely to describe the above

This manufacture clearly did not do his checks on my MH as water pipes were not connected properly behind a wall covering resulting in flooding in the living area

The dealer has to do a PDI and this was done correctly IMO as was the hand over

The fridge not working on 240V again a manufacturer problem.

Out of interest when we removed paneling to investigate the leaks the amount of sawdust, screws, screw head covesr i.e rubbish left by the fitters during the build was unbelievable

In my posts I have tried to point out that Swifts do not seem to have the quality control that our European manufacturers have.

If this thread gets people thinking and Swifts to pull their socks up it can only be a good thing for us the customer.

Wups


----------



## geraldandannie

Wupert said:


> If this thread gets people thinking and Swifts to pull their socks up it can only be a good thing for us the customer.


And, of course, for Swift. I think most (if not all) of us on here would want the UK (or Great Britain :roll: ) to have a motorhome manufacturer that we could feel proud of.

Don't forget that people supported the British motorcycle industry when oil leaks were "not that bad", and the agricultural nature of the engines was just "part of their character". Along came the Japanese, and we derided their whizzy little engines and their electric starts and the fact that they didn't leak oil where they stood and that light bulbs lasted longer than a couple of days. "Jap crap" was a saying in my youth.

Too many times, British industry has stuck its head in the sand, believing that tradition and where their factory was situated counted for something. These days, in an increasingly global economy, motorhomes can come from anywhere, and manufacturers must realise that we won't go on forever accepting poor quality manufacture and bad customer service. Remember British Leyland?

Gerald


----------



## nukeadmin

> The fridge not working on 240V again a manufacturer problem.


it really isn't worth clouding the issue somewhat talking about a defective fridge as like all Motorhome converters/manufacturers they buy in standard units from Dometic / Thetford / Truma etc and so if a fridge goes defective then that is a fault with the original manufacturer

For what it's worth I have never used the sound functionality on any reversing camera system whilst on the move, although I did use it once to listen in on a French dealer talking about me behind the van when we took our Euramobil in to get some rectification work done to a blind


----------



## Wupert

RichardnGill said:


> To put this into context
> 
> A wait of 28 days may be OK to you but it certainly is not acceptable to me
> 
> The dealer was under the impression that the set up has sound
> 
> We all have different needs and whilst reversing into my drive I find the sound very important listening to my wife's instructions.
> 
> As explained in my previous post the dealer has done everything possible
> 
> My problem has not been resolved and it is because of this I started this thread I'm the sort of guy who wouldn't have bothered a manufacturer to change a bulb
> 
> You and I appear to have different standards my view is Swifts have poor quality control and in my case I see it as poor customer care.
> 
> Wups


----------



## geraldandannie

nukeadmin said:


> all Motorhome converters/manufacturers they buy in standard units from Dometic / Thetford / Truma etc and so if a fridge goes defective then that is a fault with the original manufacturer


Aye, indeed. But then car manufacturers buy in radios from Philips or whoever. If you paid anywhere near the price Wupert paid for his motorhome, you would expect the radio to work. And if it didn't, you wouldn't expect people to say "aah, but it's made by Philips".

These days, car manufacturers make very little of the car themselves, and buy in huge amounts of components and subassemblies from outside sources. But you expect the manufacturer's product (as a whole) to work. The fact that, behind walls and under cupboards, Wupert found huge amounts of detritus from the manufacturing process and people shows how much they value their customer and how much care they take over the manufacture of the product.

I'm sure Swift are not alone in this.

Gerald


----------



## Wupert

nukeadmin said:


> The fridge not working on 240V again a manufacturer problem.
> 
> 
> 
> it really isn't worth clouding the issue somewhat talking about a defective fridge as like all Motorhome converters/manufacturers they buy in standard units from Dometic / Thetford / Truma etc and so if a fridge goes defective then that is a fault with the original manufacturer
> 
> For what it's worth I have never used the sound functionality on any reversing camera system whilst on the move, although I did use it once to listen in on a French dealer talking about me behind the van when we took our Euramobil in to get some rectification work done to a blind
Click to expand...

I think a defective fridge on a brand new MH is a problem.

I hardly ever use the sound but there are specific times i.e reversing up my drive it is essential.

Had Swift offered a sound upgrade I would have happily paid but their sales bumpff states clearly infra red & sound standard and this is my complaint

Wups


----------



## Zebedee

Wupert said:


> . . . their sales bumpff states clearly infra red & sound standard and this is my complaint
> Wups


I think you should have gone to Specsavers Wupert! 8O :lol: :lol:

(_That was a joke - I wrote it so I can say that with certainty!! :wink: :lol:_ )

As has been mentioned several times already, there is always a caveat in the small print to cover any sudden changes in specification.

I don't see how else it can work.

Have you a feasible and realistic suggestion for Swift to keep their "sales bumpff" totally accurate and up to the minute on every item in the specification? :?

I understand what you are complaining about, but I think you are asking the impossible. :?

Dave


----------



## Wupert

Zebedee said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . their sales bumpff states clearly infra red & sound standard and this is my complaint
> Wups
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should have gone to Specsavers Wupert! 8O :lol: :lol:
> 
> (_That was a joke - I wrote it so I can say that with certainty!! :wink: :lol:_ )
> 
> As has been mentioned several times already, there is always a caveat in the small print to cover any sudden changes in specification.
> 
> I don't see how else it can work.
> 
> Have you a feasible and realistic suggestion for Swift to keep their "sales bumpff" totally accurate and up to the minute on every item in the specification? :?
> 
> I understand what you are complaining about, but I think you are asking the impossible. :?
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Zeb

I could well be asking the impossible but I'm giving it a go

Up until approx 3 weeks ago on the Autocruise web pages the drive range had in its spec "with IR night vision and sound" this phrase has been removed since I first contacted Swift.

I have made no financial demands on Swift

I am amazed that it can take up to a month to get a side marker, plastic trim, and a finisher button.

If we do not complain openly about poor Quality Control etc there will be no improvement and its about time the UK manufactures caught up with their European rivals.

Wups


----------



## nukeadmin

> I think a defective fridge on a brand new MH is a problem.


I think you misunderstand me, I didn't say it wasn't a problem, i meant that the fridge defect is inherrently the by product of the original manufacturer, the issue probably aside from this is how mh manufacturers test fridges and to what degree and same goes for other modules such as ovens, grills etc

i.e. the mh manufacturers may just turn the fridge on for 1/2 hr and see if it cools down, or is it tested in all 3 modes (assuming AES type fridge) etc and for what length of time. What actual tests could you perform to ensure 100%. The fridge could then leave the factory, go to dealers and go defective en route due to travel vibrations and the like etc. It is a very grey area

I see your issue, i.e. you bought a van that had listed in the brochure a facility on an electronic device that is not present on the model supplied. As stated above though how would it be possible for a mh manufacturer to guarantee this aspect when the supplying companies change spec with maddening ever increasing frequency ?

We live in a consumer driven world and specifications can and do change without notice, todays top of the range gadget is tommorrows out of date antique and companies that use diverse systems in an end product whether it be car manufacturers / mh manufacturers etc are tied by what they can get from their suppliers and if products go obselete they simply cannot supply them and have to choose alternate products that are available, hence the brochure small print about specifications changing.

If a particular functionality of a mh was very important to me I would bear this in mind when purchasing a product of such high £ value and be vigorous about checking the facility was present and working to my requirements at PDI from the dealer


----------



## Wupert

nukeadmin said:


> I think a defective fridge on a brand new MH is a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you misunderstand me, I didn't say it wasn't a problem, i meant that the fridge defect is inherrently the by product of the original manufacturer, the issue probably aside from this is how mh manufacturers test fridges and to what degree and same goes for other modules such as ovens, grills etc
> 
> i.e. the mh manufacturers may just turn the fridge on for 1/2 hr and see if it cools down, or is it tested in all 3 modes (assuming AES type fridge) etc and for what length of time. What actual tests could you perform to ensure 100%. The fridge could then leave the factory, go to dealers and go defective en route due to travel vibrations and the like etc. It is a very grey area
> 
> I see your issue, i.e. you bought a van that had listed in the brochure a facility on an electronic device that is not present on the model supplied. As stated above though how would it be possible for a mh manufacturer to guarantee this aspect when the supplying companies change spec with maddening ever increasing frequency ?
> 
> We live in a consumer driven world and specifications can and do change without notice, todays top of the range gadget is tommorrows out of date antique and companies that use diverse systems in an end product whether it be car manufacturers / mh manufacturers etc are tied by what they can get from their suppliers and if products go obselete they simply cannot supply them and have to choose alternate products that are available, hence the brochure small print about specifications changing.
> 
> If a particular functionality of a mh was very important to me I would bear this in mind when purchasing a product of such high £ value and be vigorous about checking the facility was present and working to my requirements at PDI from the dealer
Click to expand...

Cheers Nuke I agree with spec changes but the Swift website until a few weeks ago said that their Drive range had this kit.

I understand where you are coming from regarding the fridge but had Swift put it onto 240V for half an hour they would have realised there was a problem.

Regarding the leaks on one of Swifts Flagship motor homes this simply should not happen

I wonder how many of us would react if a radiator pipe leaked to the point of overheating an engine on a new car of any price.

I fully accept hat things are never 100% perfect but without a doubt very poor workmanship was not picked up by an obviously sloppy Quality Control at Swifts.

My original post just points out what I wanted and I would still like a monitor with sound.

No more no less.

Wups


----------



## roger-the-lodger

My thoughts at this point:

There are 3 main "questions" in play - ex-factory build quality, quality assurance and Swift customer service (the first two related of course). Taking Wuperts 3 specific problems:

1 The defective fridge: as Nuke has said (and I agree) it remains speculation that the fault was present when the MH left the factory and a 100% effective test regime is difficult to implement. A really thorough dealer PDI (along the lines suggested by Gerald) would have picked this up before handover. It seems the dealer fixed this promptly and so provided good service. Swift CS was not an issue here. QA might be an issue but we don't know for sure.

2. The flooding shower: Build quality problem and all too common in the industry. Again might be picked up by a more thorough dealer PDI. But let's call a spade a spade, or in this case shoddy workmanship. So many bits of woodwork etc. have come apart on my E560 that I have spent several hours of my time in refixing them properly. The work has been trivial (for anyone with very basic DIY skills) and hence an irritation rather than something I've lost sleep over. But the specific faults (screws too short or wrongly located, reliance on adhesive where failure is bound to be the result) indicate both cost cutting and operative sloppiness on the line. So YES, I know that Swift can improve here and I bet they do too! Again, for Wupert the dealer did the business (he says) so its not a Swift CS issue. As with most build quality issues there's a QA message too.

3. The no-sound camera: I'm torn here, I admit. I can see that manufacturers have to change specs at short notice but this one smacks of a cost cut without changing the sales literature to reflect it. That's a fine example of a CS shortfall in itself. Also the sales condition should be implemented so as to avoid removal of key functionality - for example changing appearance, colour, layout of controls, even the user interface can be acceptable but removing a key function promised in literature is widely accepted as poor practice. Is sound on a reversing camera a key function (when promised) or a triviality. We know what Wupert thinks! On balance I agree with him. There are also indications that subsequent CS handling of his complaint could have been better executed.

To sum up: IMO:

(1) doesn't indicate *inherent* build quality, QA or CS problems; as it was dealer fixed it's best laid to rest.

(2) indicates inherent build quality problems (supported by my own observations on my MH) and Swift should welcome this feedback from an end-user. There are QA actions they need to take in the area of operator training and perhaps on-line inspection.

(3) this suggests that Swift CS needs more attention. Whether Swift consider it affordable, or even possible, to retrofit the feature in one or more cases (they may not because it may not be) they should learn a lesson in terms of accuracy of their sales literature where key features are concerned.

Roger

PS Just read your post Wups which will appear before mine. What you say is pretty in line with mine so I'll post it now unchanged.


----------



## 94055

> was not picked up by an obviously sloppy Quality Control at Swift


Or by you and the dealer at hand over



> I could well be asking the impossible but I'm giving it a go


Have you said the same to trading standards?

By the way, how much did you pay for the Oakmont?


----------



## b16duv

roger-the-lodger said:


> My thoughts at this point:
> 
> There are 3 main "questions" in play - ex-factory build quality, quality assurance and Swift customer service (the first two related of course). Taking Wuperts 3 specific problems:
> 
> 1 The defective fridge: as Nuke has said (and I agree) it remains speculation that the fault was present when the MH left the factory and a 100% effective test regime is difficult to implement. A really thorough dealer PDI (along the lines suggested by Gerald) would have picked this up before handover. It seems the dealer fixed this promptly and so provided good service. Swift CS was not an issue here. QA might be an issue but we don't know for sure.
> 
> 2. The flooding shower: Build quality problem and all too common in the industry. Again might be picked up by a more thorough dealer PDI. But let's call a spade a spade, or in this case shoddy workmanship. So many bits of woodwork etc. have come apart on my E560 that I have spent several hours of my time in refixing them properly. The work has been trivial (for anyone with very basic DIY skills) and hence an irritation rather than something I've lost sleep over. But the specific faults (screws too short or wrongly located, reliance on adhesive where failure is bound to be the result) indicate both cost cutting and operative sloppiness on the line. So YES, I know that Swift can improve here and I bet they do too! Again, for Wupert the dealer did the business (he says) so its not a Swift CS issue. As with most build quality issues there's a QA message too.
> 
> 3. The no-sound camera: I'm torn here, I admit. I can see that manufacturers have to change specs at short notice but this one smacks of a cost cut without changing the sales literature to reflect it. That's a fine example of a CS shortfall in itself. Also the sales condition should be implemented so as to avoid removal of key functionality - for example changing appearance, colour, layout of controls, even the user interface can be acceptable but removing a key function promised in literature is widely accepted as poor practice. Is sound on a reversing camera a key function (when promised) or a triviality. We know what Wupert thinks! On balance I agree with him. There are also indications that subsequent CS handling of his complaint could have been better executed.
> 
> To sum up: IMO:
> 
> (1) doesn't indicate *inherent* build quality, QA or CS problems; as it was dealer fixed it's best laid to rest.
> 
> (2) indicates inherent build quality problems (supported by my own observations on my MH) and Swift should welcome this feedback from an end-user. There are QA actions they need to take in the area of operator training and perhaps on-line inspection.
> 
> (3) this suggests that Swift CS needs more attention. Whether Swift consider it affordable, or even possible, to retrofit the feature in one or more cases (they may not because it may not be) they should learn a lesson in terms of accuracy of their sales literature where key features are concerned.
> 
> Roger
> 
> PS Just read your post Wups which will appear before mine. What you say is pretty in line with mine so I'll post it now unchanged.


Have to agree with your points Roger.

From a CS perspective, a simple notification to the customer (Wuppert) prior to delivery that the spec had been changed would have made all the difference. He could then have chosen whether or not to accept delivery.

Just my tuppenceworth (and not Swift bashing in any way-it could have been any manufacturer).

David


----------



## roger-the-lodger

b16duv said:


> ...Just my tuppenceworth (and not Swift bashing in any way-it could have been any manufacturer).
> 
> David


Yes David, I agree. I nearly added a question for Wupert to my post as to whether he really believed problems, on average, would be less with products of most European competitors.

I didn't add it because I don't know of any source of solid, evidence-based and quantified reliability and quality statistics showing the relative positions of MH manufacturers (as exist, to an extent, for cars). If anyone does, I (and I suspect many others) would love to know.

Although my post was opinionated I tried to stick to objective supporting points. My only knowledge of product quality of other manufacturers (converters) is gleaned from friends (quite a few), forum postings (here and elsewhere) and the vans I looked at when buying (and choosing a Bessacarr E560). All of that suggests that the quality shortfalls are essentially part of an industry-wide picture.

And this limited knowledge suggests too that CS and (especially) parts supply are better from Swift than from many central European manufacturers.

Roger


----------



## Zebedee

I also think Roger's post is balanced and sensible.

Why on earth don't all manufacturers employ an "_old boy_" who has just retired (after many years with the firm) to come back on a part time basis?

He could go over vans with a "fine toothed comb" and a checklist, and would pick up most of the sloppy build and other problems before the van left the factory.

He would cost the firm very little in wages, and would save them a fortune in after market repairs and fixes.

If he found consistent problems in any specific area of the build, the employee concerned could be identified and dealt with, thus fixing for good the root cause (_I strongly suspect_) of much of the poor build quality we so often find.

Seems simple to me - but am I missing something obvious?? :? :?

Dave


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Zebedee said:


> ...Why on earth don't all manufacturers employ *an "old boy" who has just retired* (after many years with the firm) to come back on a part time basis?...
> Dave


Sounds like a job for me then! Even if I haven't worked for them.

If Swift read this, the answer would be no - it's too far to Cottingham and anyway you can't afford me! 

Roger


----------



## icer

An interesting discussion 

Wupert has already mentioned earlier, the magic words "Quality control" 

Perhaps MH manufacturers are OK with the few "whingers" who expect good quality for money because the majority except poor quality or give up when they meet resistance. 

Ian


----------



## Wupert

roger-the-lodger said:


> b16duv said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Just my tuppenceworth (and not Swift bashing in any way-it could have been any manufacturer).
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> Yes David, I agree. I nearly added a question for Wupert to my post as to whether he really believed problems, on average, would be less with products of most European competitors.
> 
> I
> Roger
Click to expand...

A very good post Roger

I have since the late 70's had been fortunate enough to have had from new

5 German caravans 1 Wilk and 4 Fendt's none had any problem whatsoever. All bought and serviced in Germany top class after sales resulting in me buying all from the same dealer.

I had a secondhand FFB M/H on a Merc again no probs

In more recent times a

Hymer on a Trany no build problems bought from Brownhills.

who only managed to fit the wrong Pressure valve in my LPG system

Because of the Brownhills monopoly of Hymer we decided against buying another from them

A Chausson Welcome 85 not a problem at all and great after-sales from Continental Caravans.

One Swift Flagship 

In these 40 or so years the only after sales problems are with Brownhills and now Swift.

These are not stats just my experience

Wups


----------



## Wupert

icer said:


> An interesting discussion
> 
> Wupert has already mentioned earlier, the magic words "Quality control"
> 
> Perhaps MH manufacturers are OK with the few "whingers" who expect good quality for money because the majority except poor quality or give up when they meet resistance.
> 
> Ian


It is Ian

I'm delighted in the way its going

The power of this board is immense and I honestly think everyone who spends hard earned money on a new M/H car etc deserve a good after sales service from both dealer and manufacturer.

Wups


----------



## ShinyFiat

Wupert said:


> ShinyFiat said:
> 
> 
> 
> WUPERT,whats your son working to a bluechip company got to do with it???
> 
> who cares
> 
> 
> 
> And you are
Click to expand...

(Inflammatory comments removed by moderators.)


----------



## Wupert

ShinyFiat said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShinyFiat said:
> 
> 
> 
> WUPERT,whats your son working to a bluechip company got to do with it???
> 
> who cares
> 
> 
> 
> And you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wupert, no need to be so arrogant.
> 
> And you are?
> 
> stop whining, you should have checked the vehicle over before driving out of the yard after paying 57k odd.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice.

Calm Happy and as far from arrogant as can be

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wupert,
> 
> The comment regarding "everyone else will want it" is not intended to a PR exercise, it is a simple matter that the parts you require are no longer available.
> 
> Ash
> 
> 
> 
> How wrong you are Ash
> 
> Julie told me that the installed camera was geared for sound and if I wanted sound I should contact the firm/suppliers who will sell me the upgrade sound version. Quality PR there again
> 
> I am so disappointed in your customer care efforts to fob me off for the sake of a few pounds.
> 
> Hi Ash
> 
> I trust you have spoken to Julie regarding the suggestion I buy myself the monitor. This is top quality PR for Swifts
> 
> I would be delighted with any feed back.
> 
> In particular where I can buy one of these monitors.
> 
> Wups
Click to expand...


----------



## karlb

ShinyFiat said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ShinyFiat said:
> 
> 
> 
> WUPERT,whats your son working to a bluechip company got to do with it???
> 
> who cares
> 
> 
> 
> And you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wupert, no need to be so arrogant.
> 
> And you are?
> 
> stop whining, you should have checked the vehicle over before driving out of the yard after paying 57k odd.
Click to expand...

come on now armchair warrior, read your own post, you started with the personal arrogant remarks :roll:


----------



## roger-the-lodger

Wupert said:


> ...I honestly think everyone who spends hard earned money on a new M/H car etc deserve a good after sales service from both dealer and manufacturer...
> 
> Wups


Hear hear! And too few get it.

Your experience with non-UK manufactured MHs is interesting and I can see why you would consider they have better quality.

My reservations stem from design flaws I saw in a wide variety of vans we looked at before choosing / buying. These were mainly small items such as fixings destined to break or fall apart, rather than major flaws, but would eventually lead to much irritation.

I have been lucky in that most of the irritations I have had with the E560 are in this category. It seems to me that fixings and fastenings are not up to the vibration and stress levels that are inevitably encountered in a motor caravan; these are design failures.

Your flooding shower would likely be caused by an operative failure on the line (clips not tightened); I have anecdotal evidence of similar failings and of untidiness left in lockers being commonplace. This suggests room for improvement in training and motivation of line operatives. I have no means of comparing the incidence of faults of this kind across a range of manufacturers. But it seems clear Swift still have work to do to improve both fixing/fastening design and operative performance.

The CS issue is also clear. If a CS manager told you that you could pay extra to have a feature stated by brochure and website as included and then a CS operative told you that the feature was unavailable because parts were no longer available, then it would be hard to find clearer indications of serious CS shortcomings.

As for self-inspection and "caveat emptor", if I bought a Mercedes for £57000 (I wish!  ), I would certainly not expect to have to raise the bonnet, crawl underneath and carry out a comprehensive inspection to make sure all was OK before I drove it away. (Just think what it might do to my Armani suit!  ) Nor would I expect to take a mechanically expert mate with me to check it over as if it was an old banger.

If that's so for cars, why not for motorhomes? Like I said it's an industry problem.

Roger


----------



## Wupert

The power of google

For the attention of everyone especially Swifts PR and Customer care

The Driver range spec with the lux pack downloaded by me today !!!!!

http://www.marquismotorhomes.co.uk/request-a-brochure/properties/doc-Autocruise Coachbuilt

Last page or so states

Lux Pack

......".Colour reversing camera with infra red nightvision & sound"

So does my brochure So does my dealer

Mr Swift can I have the sound described in todays download delivered to my dealer ASAP please

Wups


----------



## carolgavin

Hi again Wupert, unfortunately also in the brochure link you kindly supplied is this!

*This brochure does not constitute an offer by Autocruise
Motorhomes Limited (Autocruise). Autocruise reserves
the right to alter specifications and prices at any time as
materials and conditions demand. Distributors and dealers
sell Autocruise products on their own account and not as
agents of Autocruise. Accordingly, they have no authority
to bind Autocruise or to make any representation or
undertaking whatsoever on behalf of Autocruise.
All props are for photographic purposes only and are not
included in the specification
Issued September 2008*

So am afraid you are stuffed!!!


----------



## Wupert

carolgavin said:


> Hi again Wupert, unfortunately also in the brochure link you kindly supplied is this!
> So am afraid you are stuffed!!!


Not according to the trading standards officer I met today

I have been advised that I have two courses of action

To go through my dealer which I am currently doing.

Two ... and the biggy is the above disclaimer is in law rather meaningless unless all sales material is removed.

To continue advertising months after the change i.e via this download and my Brochure could result in a criminal charges being brought against the manufacturers.

I'm no lawyer but the trading standards want to see me in a few weeks time

What I cant understand is the small number of posters who seem to be fighting the corner of a firm that has clearly failed in its obligations.

The quality control in particular

Anyway thanks for your interest

Undecided Wups


----------



## SwiftGroup

Wups,
I will ask Julie to give you a call again next week,
Andy


----------



## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wups,
> I will ask Julie to give you a call again next week,
> Andy


Thank you Andy

I really would like to see my very minor problem addressed.

Faulty pipes, fridges etc I can cope with.

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wups,
> I will ask Julie to give you a call again next week,
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Andy
> 
> I really would like to see my very minor problem addressed.
> 
> Faulty pipes, fridges etc I can cope with.
> 
> Wups
Click to expand...

Swift group customer care manager Julie phoned to tell me that some of the parts I'm waiting for have been dispatched ........some !!!!!!!

Regarding the reversing equipment she again been told to buy my own if I want sound .......

I asked Julie if she would arrange for her superior to contact me ref the above she initially refused this request. I asked for the third time and she has told me maybe an Amy Archer will phone in the next 48 hrs

A little later I will if I can post an e-mail from Johnscross MH dated the 1st of Aug who point out that the Drive series have a Lux pac .....i.e A reversing system with sound

When I mentioned Trading Standars Julie told me that it was not a problem to Swifts as they dealt regularly with them.....could be more complaints there then.

In my many years of buying cars, caravans and MH I have never experienced such poor customer care.

Wups


----------



## Briarose

> I asked Julie if she would arrange for her superior to contact me ref the above she initially refused this request. I asked for the third time and she has told me maybe an Amy Archer will phone in the next 48 hrs


Amy is lovely and very helpful, she is helping us with the damaged wardrobe door. I asked for her to phone us on here a few days ago, and she phoned the next day.


----------



## Wupert

Briarose said:


> I asked Julie if she would arrange for her superior to contact me ref the above she initially refused this request. I asked for the third time and she has told me maybe an Amy Archer will phone in the next 48 hrs
> 
> 
> 
> Amy is lovely and very helpful, she is helping us with the damaged wardrobe door. I asked for her to phone us on here a few days ago, and she phoned the next day.
Click to expand...

Cheers Brian

Thanks for that

I'm looking forward to speaking to her.

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Before I turn in to my warm bed my last post of the evening

To anyone going to the NEC and considering a Swift product make sure that you get in writing assurance that there will be no specification change.

IMO My Oakmont is class design 

IMO It is constructed with quality materials (Put together poorly)

Could/does their spec disclaimer mean that they can change base vehicles from Peugeot to Fiat when they wish

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Before I turn in to my warm bed my last post of the evening
> 
> To anyone going to the NEC and considering a Swift product make sure that you get in writing assurance that there will be no specification change.
> 
> IMO My Oakmont is class design
> 
> IMO It is constructed with quality materials (Put together poorly)
> 
> Could/does their spec disclaimer mean that they can change base vehicles from Peugeot to Fiat when they wish
> 
> Wups


Another unhappy Swifts customer with similar issues to me

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=73484

Swifts remain constant

My dealer is great

Wups

PS M/H off the road again for faulty fridge replacement.


----------



## Penquin

Without detracting from anything that you are saying I would point out that the post you have linked to;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=73484

is primarily about his dealer and the poor quality handover he was given and is NOT primarily about Swift. This was commented upon in this post;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-710110.html#710110

So a direct comparison is probably not possible. Great care must be taken as regards specification changes - and of course you had the right to reject the vehicle at the handover stage as "not being suitable" or what you had contracted for.

While I have a very large degree of sympathy with you over the position you now find yourself in, from my experience the response that one gets tends to reflect the style of approach made.

Surely the time has come to put your grievance in writing and send it in formally and then await a reasonable response? But your contract is with your dealer NOT with Swift so that letter is only relevant if sent to your dealer.

It then remains for your dealer to attempt to follow through with Swift AFTER they have solved your problems, you should not expect your first point of call to be Swift as you have no contract with them. So if they are helping you it is because of their GOOD customer support rather than poor? They are not legally obliged to do so IMO.

You have the details of your original contract with your dealer, that is the point of discussion and negotiation - he can supply the equipment you wish for and then try to extract recompense from Swift.

I am sorry if that does not support your point of view but that is the way I see it.

Dave


----------



## Telbell

> you should not expect your first point of call to be Swift as you have no contract with them.


But you (and Swift) can't have it all ways-Swift are on here in the interests of their business. And they have been seen to respond to Members who have approached them direct (sometimes having had no success WITHOUT coming on here).

So who can blame people for going straight to them? Swift appear to encourage it!


----------



## Wupert

Penquin said:


> Without detracting from anything that you are saying I would point out that the post you have linked to;
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=73484
> 
> is primarily about his dealer and the poor quality handover he was given and is NOT primarily about Swift. This was commented upon in this post;
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-710110.html#710110
> 
> So a direct comparison is probably not possible. Great care must be taken as regards specification changes - and of course you had the right to reject the vehicle at the handover stage as "not being suitable" or what you had contracted for.
> 
> While I have a very large degree of sympathy with you over the position you now find yourself in, from my experience the response that one gets tends to reflect the style of approach made.
> 
> Surely the time has come to put your grievance in writing and send it in formally and then await a reasonable response? But your contract is with your dealer NOT with Swift so that letter is only relevant if sent to your dealer.
> 
> It then remains for your dealer to attempt to follow through with Swift AFTER they have solved your problems, you should not expect your first point of call to be Swift as you have no contract with them. So if they are helping you it is because of their GOOD customer support rather than poor? They are not legally obliged to do so IMO.
> 
> You have the details of your original contract with your dealer, that is the point of discussion and negotiation - he can supply the equipment you wish for and then try to extract recompense from Swift.
> 
> I am sorry if that does not support your point of view but that is the way I see it.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave

Thanks for your post

I am very much in contact with my dealer and as I have repeatedly pointed out in my posts he has given me 100% backing.

My dealer is in dispair over the supply of parts from Swift and angry that the spec was changed by them.

Julie customer care manager of Swifts yesterday was happy to tell me me "Some of the parts had been dispatched"

What use is some of the parts? .... to facilitate a full repair we need all of the parts.

I agree that the post on another thread is mainly about a dealer but the last para states clearly

"as to the 2010 specification that I was assured of by Dave Williams Sales Director of Swift himself! My £64,000 kon tiki is not as stated! "

This is exactly the same issue that I have a change in Spec that my dealer new nothing about and Maquis are still advertising their Autocruise Drive range with the LUX Pac

Swifts were advertising the same up until a few weeks ago.

This to me shows a very sloppy attitude to advertising and the way they are handling my case.

The poor publicity generated by themselves is staggering as you can see over 3000 hits have been made on my thread alone

If 1% of those hits are a potential new customer they could have lost 30 Sales

My grumble has nothing to do with money its all to do with principles, customer care, and quality control.

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about this then a response during my search this summer for a new MH
> 
> Dated 1st of August 2009 and still showing the Lux Pac
> 
> Hi Wups,
> 
> We have a brand new one in stock, pictures available at www.johnscross.co.uk
> 
> or
> 
> http://www.johnscross.co.uk/motor2.html
> 
> ____
> deleted by myself
> ______
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Autocruise Augusta £55325
> Fiat Ducato X250 160 Multijet Power 2999cc Turbo Diesel Manual Length: 24' 10" (7.56m)
> Layout: End Washroom / Twin Single Beds Height: 8' 10" (2.69m)
> Berths: Four Berth Mileage: BRAND NEW
> Specification: The most popular Autocruise available has driven onto our forecourt in style. The Autocruise Driving range has everything on the Star and Star Plus ranges including the.............
> 
> the Driving and Lux packs.
> 
> All I wanted was sound
> 
> Wups
Click to expand...


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## Wupert

Unbelievable

By chance today I drove past a Swift Autocruise dealer today

I went in as as a "Mystery shopper and enquired about the Drive range"

I was given a brochure with the same spec as I bought.

Reversing camera with IR and sound.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Further info

I spoke yesterday to a very understanding Ami (One up from customer care) she has been told this TV monitor model has been discontinued


I pointed out that the reversing set up info given at hand over describes the upgrades 

The model fitted was the entry one

Model 2 has IR and sound

Model 3 has bluetooth

Come on Swifts get your departments to communicate.


As has been said before the probable reason for the change is purely cost saving 

Mystery shopper Wups


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## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Unbelievable
> 
> By chance today I drove past a Swift Autocruise dealer today
> 
> I went in as as a "Mystery shopper and enquired about the Drive range"
> 
> I was given a brochure with the same spec as I bought.
> 
> Reversing camera with IR and sound.!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Further info
> 
> I spoke yesterday to a very understanding Ami (One up from customer care) she has been told this TV monitor model has been discontinued
> 
> I pointed out that the reversing set up info given at hand over describes the upgrades
> 
> The model fitted was the entry one
> 
> Model 2 has IR and sound
> 
> Model 3 has bluetooth
> 
> Come on Swifts get your departments to communicate.
> 
> As has been said before the probable reason for the change is purely cost saving
> 
> Mystery shopper Wups


Swifts phoned me yesterday to tell me the person who was going to phone was in the NEC .....I dont have a problem with that.

I pointed out that as a mystery shopper I had been given on Wed an Autocsruise brochure which still advertises the old Spec.

The reply "We will issue these brochures until they run out" Thats OK then

On the spares side I am still waiting for all of the parts not some.

Whilst my problems are insignificant compared to others on this forum I really do believe that Swifts customer care and after-sales have much improvement to make.

Wups


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## Wupert

Since my last post I have received a call from Swifts at the NEC and am pleased to say it was a very positive discussion.

Swifts via Amy have come up with a solution that is mutually acceptable.

I am happy to publicly thank Amy and Ash of Swifts for their efforts on my behalf.

I also point out to the 3800 readers of this thread/forum that we as the customer have a very powerful tool at our disposal

Used properly this forum can only be of benefit to us the customers, the dealers and the manufacturers.

Thank you all for your patience with me and I hope you have not been too bored with my posts

A big thank you to those who PM'd me in support of my postings

An equal thank you all who posted on this thread in favour of the me the customer and the the few who took the manufacturers side.

Wups


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## erneboy

I am glad you got sorted out Wups. 

Having bought new vans from both british and german converters I must say that I have found british quality control to be greatly inferior. I have also found british customer care to be inferior. The supply of parts is poor from both. The dealers I have used have been disappointing on the after sales side, but very prompt on the sales side, I wonder why. 

Having come to vans from boats I can state that the problems are similar. 

The industry just does not work as well as it should. In particular the industry in britain is very poor and if it continues as is, it deserves to fail, just as pretty much all the other manufacturing has, Alan.


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## mondo33

Well Wups at least you got sorted (in a way) I'm still waiting for my charging unit (3 weeks now) which I was told would be 10 days!! their timescale and mine are different.
Still no charger


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## Wupert

mondo33 said:


> Well Wups at least you got sorted (in a way) I'm still waiting for my charging unit (3 weeks now) which I was told would be 10 days!! their timescale and mine are different.
> Still no charger


I'm sorry about your continuing problem

This just should not happen

Why not look back on this thread and PM Ash

I'm sure he will help

Wups


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## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Wups,
> 
> I am not sure what else I can now offer to this conversation.
> 
> I have received your PM, which was mostly a copy of your post on this forum, and have (as promised) passed your message onto our Customer Care Team. I did not pass the "problem" downwards, I referred your complaint to our dedicated team, who deal with these types of issues.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


Bump


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## Wupert

mondo33 said:


> Well Wups at least you got sorted (in a way) I'm still waiting for my charging unit (3 weeks now) which I was told would be 10 days!! their timescale and mine are different.
> Still no charger


I've bumped Ash for you Mondo

Wups


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## SwiftGroup

Mondo33
If you can PM us your details and chassis no. we can look into this for you,
thanks
Andy


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## mondo33

SwiftGroup said:


> Mondo33
> If you can PM us your details and chassis no. we can look into this for you,
> thanks
> Andy


I did this 3 weeks ago to Simon!! via e-mail I'll send it again!!


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## SwiftGroup

Mondo,
I will speak to Simon in the morning and get you an update, sorry about this, 
Andy


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## SwiftGroup

Mondo33

I have posted PM to you to explain the issue regarding the delay. Please have a look and get back to me.
Regards
Simon


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## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Dear Swifts
> 
> I took delivery of my new Autocruise Oakmont approx 2 months ago from Lee & Turner Bridgend
> 
> It should have been supplied with a reversing camera that had sound and night vision but it came with a cheaper version with no sound.
> 
> A replacement was sent but turned out to be the same cheaper version. Could you please check this out for me as your customer service tell me you are entitled to change your vehicle spec whenever you want. Your/my Oakmont spec lists the sound version
> 
> I damaged the rear of the M/H 2 weeks ago Lee & Turner body shop have been waiting for the parts required for 10 days.
> 
> I would be grateful if you could chase things up for me
> 
> Wups


After my post about recent failure of the Leisure elec system on another thread think it is worthwhile mentioning that my dealer is still waiting for the replacement part ordered during last week in Sept

In the four months we have had our brand new van it has had

A flood because of poorly connected water pipes

A new fridge

Now a new leisure battery, fuse box, and control panel these items my dealer told could take some time to arrive.

I will keep you up to date with progress

Still Waiting Wups


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## SwiftGroup

Hi Wups,

We have checked our system and also spoken to your dealer to understand the issues you mentioned.

It does seem that the final part of your order (699575) has been completed, and the outstanding marker light has been dispatched. However, after speaking with your dealer, it seems they have not received the part, and therefore, some further investigation is required to understand where this missing part is.

I will come back to you as to the location of this part, as soon as I have an update.

With regards to the control panel / fusebox / battery, unfortunately, our system is not showing any information regarding this. Again, speaking to your dealer, they are not aware of this issue, so if you could make contact with them, to explain the problem and parts required, it will help speed things along.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Hi Wups,
> 
> We have checked our system and also spoken to your dealer to understand the issues you mentioned.
> 
> It does seem that the final part of your order (699575) has been completed, and the outstanding marker light has been dispatched. However, after speaking with your dealer, it seems they have not received the part, and therefore, some further investigation is required to understand where this missing part is.
> 
> I will come back to you as to the location of this part, as soon as I have an update.
> 
> With regards to the control panel / fusebox / battery, unfortunately, our system is not showing any information regarding this. Again, speaking to your dealer, they are not aware of this issue, so if you could make contact with them, to explain the problem and parts required, it will help speed things along.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


Cheers Ash thanks for prompt reply

I will PM you ref Fuse box etc


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Wups,
> 
> We have checked our system and also spoken to your dealer to understand the issues you mentioned.
> 
> It does seem that the final part of your order (699575) has been completed, and the outstanding marker light has been dispatched. However, after speaking with your dealer, it seems they have not received the part, and therefore, some further investigation is required to understand where this missing part is.
> 
> I will come back to you as to the location of this part, as soon as I have an update.
> 
> With regards to the control panel / fusebox / battery, unfortunately, our system is not showing any information regarding this. Again, speaking to your dealer, they are not aware of this issue, so if you could make contact with them, to explain the problem and parts required, it will help speed things along.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Ash thanks for prompt reply
> 
> I will PM you ref Fuse box etc
Click to expand...

PM sent

I appreciate that the Christmas hols are near and I would be grateful if Carafit could receive the required items ASAP as we would like the job completed ASAP after the Christmas hols.

Carafit 01269 831215

Carafits set up is fantastic Swifts are lucky to have such a good family firm doing their warranty work in south wales


----------



## SwiftGroup

Hi Wups,

I've received your PM, thanks, and have responded. It seems we have been in contact with the selling dealer and not Carafit, so we will contact them in the morning, and let you know how quick we can resolve the issues.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Wups,
> 
> We have checked our system and also spoken to your dealer to understand the issues you mentioned.
> 
> It does seem that the final part of your order (699575) has been completed, and the outstanding marker light has been dispatched. However, after speaking with your dealer, it seems they have not received the part, and therefore, some further investigation is required to understand where this missing part is.
> 
> I will come back to you as to the location of this part, as soon as I have an update.
> 
> With regards to the control panel / fusebox / battery, unfortunately, our system is not showing any information regarding this. Again, speaking to your dealer, they are not aware of this issue, so if you could make contact with them, to explain the problem and parts required, it will help speed things along.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Ash thanks for prompt reply
> 
> I will PM you ref Fuse box etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PM sent
> 
> I appreciate that the Christmas hols are near and I would be grateful if Carafit could receive the required items ASAP as we would like the job completed ASAP after the Christmas hols.
> 
> Carafit 01269 831215
> 
> Carafits set up is fantastic Swifts are lucky to have such a good family firm doing their warranty work in south wales
Click to expand...

Hi Ash

Happy new year

Has the replacement part arrived yet.

Would you be so kind as to chase things up as I want to get the U/S part removed and the new one fitted in one visit.

Thanks in advance

Wups


----------



## SwiftGroup

Hi Wups,

Happy New Year to you too.

The marker light has been delivered to you dealer (L&T), on the 4th December 2009.

We are looking into the delivery of the fusebox, and will come back to you shortly.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## Wupert

SwiftGroup said:


> Hi Wups,
> 
> Happy New Year to you too.
> 
> The marker light has been delivered to you dealer (L&T), on the 4th December 2009.
> 
> We are looking into the delivery of the fusebox, and will come back to you shortly.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash


Top stuff

Wups


----------



## Wupert

Wupert said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Wups,
> 
> Happy New Year to you too.
> 
> The marker light has been delivered to you dealer (L&T), on the 4th December 2009.
> 
> We are looking into the delivery of the fusebox, and will come back to you shortly.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ash
> 
> 
> 
> Top stuff
> 
> Wups
Click to expand...

Hi Ash

I have just spoken to Carafit who are waiting for the part too be 
deliverd

Claim No 01462

Apparently someone has said that you cant supply the part until you receive the U/S component which seems a touch strange to me.

As I explained yesterday I would like to make just the one visit to Carafit for my and their convenience and because we need power in the MH as it is also a mobile office

Thanks in advance

Wups


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## eddied

Wow, what a saga. Took almost as long as War & Peace to get through. Hope it all has a happy ending.
saluti,
eddied


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