# Stuck 3 times in 5 days-Is this a record?



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

We have been touring for a week as you may know, posted in another section that we got stuck in the mud at the CL at Thirsk and had to stey on their drive after being towed off.
Well we went from there to Masham on another CL and guess what--Yes we got stuck again and got towed off by their tractor(we phoned up on both occasions to check they had the facilities to tow us out should we need it, and that they were happy to do it).
Back home yesterday the bloody thing couldn't get up the drive, albeit it is steep, there was minimal ice. I spent the best part of half an hour clearing it.

Now my point.

These continental vanco tyres fitted to our MH are a pile of rubbish, they are OK if you want to tour in summer from campsite to camsite, using both hardstandings and main roads, that is not our style.

If you look at the tread pattern on them, there is no tread whatsoever going from side to side and consequently no grip whatsoever. I was going to wait a bit longer before changing the tyres as we don,t know if we are keeping this MH or not yet. 
If anybody offered me a brand new set of summer continental vanco's for FREE i would tell them to get lost. Why do they put such rubbish on a lovely vehicle.
My 12 year old car is really good on snow/ice etc, summer tyres on, but thick grooves from side to side which is obviously the reason.

I know some may say, if we knew they were rubbish why stay on grass and that is a fair point  but as i say, we haven't decided whether to keep this one or not( I would like a merc twin rear wheel one).

Paul.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Just a few thoughts. Ours is on a 316, but is automatic. I have Vanco 1 on the rear wheels and Vanco 2 on the front. Pure accident as the mix was delivered to Kwik Fit when I ordered four (it was around the time of the introduction of Vanco 2). I opted to have the Vanco 1s fitted to the rear as they seem to have a chunkier tread pattern. I agree that the new ones are more car-like, and whilst they drive well and are less inclined to follow ridges in the road, I think their off-road grip would be poorer.

We got stuck once last year. My fault really for parking in the dark on a CS and not realising how soft the ground was. I don't think any normal tyre would have prevented it. We now have a pair of glass-filled resin sand tracks (I think that's what the off-road boys call them). Big honeycomb jobs that we have not had to use in anger yet. However, the point is that I doubt any tyre will pull through the really sticky stuff. The only option if really bogged down and no tractor is available, is to let down the tyres to very low pressure; pull out onto hard standing and pump them up again. That's what the outback boys do in Australia when stuck in soft sand.

Final thought. I guess your Merc has ESP. Do you switch this off if the ground is bad? When switched on, it detects the first wheel slipping, then applies the brake to that wheel. As the other one slips, power is cut to the point where nothing happens. If you want to be able to keep a bit of spin going to try and pull through, the ESP will defeat you.

Philip


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

The Vanco tyres (fitted in 2007) on the front wheels of my T4 are hopeless on ice. Twice I have been unable even to get out of my parking space (slight uphill slope). I have ESR but the front wheels still spun regardless.

I doubt if it is the tread pattern - the rubber is simply quite hard in order to give low wear characteristics for high mileage commercial vans, but the trade-off is poor grip at low temperatures. 


SD


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Very good point by Philip about lowering pressures. I carry a small Halfords compressor for that very purpose but have not had to use it yet despite being on very soft going on occasions.

It's worth trying second gear if you can instead of first. It will give more torque to the wheels = more grip and less slip.

I am about to change tyres on my van and have looked at the possibility of getting M&S (Mud and Snow) tyres but they are harder to get hold of. I may stick with the Avon Avenzas that I have currently.

JohnW


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## 38Rover (Nov 9, 2006)

Once you have filled the tread with mud or snow you have slicks just look at off road tyres wide grooves to shed mud etc. 
I have been bogged down in my 4x4 because i have road tyres.Also motorhomes carry a lot of rear weight if your front wheel drive lessens grip mine will spin on a damp road sometimes.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

When you change then Fit Michelins. Thankfully both our last two vans came with them fitted as standard. Meanwhile get a set of snow chains. I saw these used to good effect at Stratford some 12 years back. Even on a front wheel drive van and it was successfull. Filled the wheel arches though!

C.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hi Philip, ESP on/off made no difference, just seems the slightest bit of mud/ ice and they are useless.
Good point about tyre pressues though, easier for someone to tow you off :lol:
Secong gear made no difference either.

Thought rear wheel drive were better for mud/ice etc :roll: 

I have to admit though, that i,m not the best driver in the world, although did try all the above, tried nice and smooth, least revs possible.

Paul.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

CliveMott said:


> When you change then Fit Michelins. Thankfully both our last two vans came with them fitted as standard. Meanwhile get a set of snow chains. I saw these used to good effect at Stratford some 12 years back. Even on a front wheel drive van and it was successfull. Filled the wheel arches though!
> 
> C.


Yes Clive, said to the missus whilst stuck, that snow chains were on my shopping list.

Paul.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

SpeedyDux said:


> The Vanco tyres (fitted in 2007) on the front wheels of my T4 are hopeless on ice. Twice I have been unable even to get out of my parking space (slight uphill slope). I have ESR but the front wheels still spun regardless.
> 
> I doubt if it is the tread pattern - the rubber is simply quite hard in order to give low wear characteristics for high mileage commercial vans, but the trade-off is poor grip at low temperatures.
> 
> SD


Hi SD, i thought it was a combination of both, rubber type and tread pattern.

Paul.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

coppo said:


> Thought rear wheel drive were better for mud/ice etc :roll:


Paul,
They are, particularly on wet grass - the Fiat-based vans will get stuck well before you do.

But once the wheels start to bury into mud, the weight of a motorhome is too much for the traction available from the tyres, whether it's front- or rear-wheel drive. Unless you have one of these!

Philip


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

JeanLuc said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > Thought rear wheel drive were better for mud/ice etc :roll:
> ...


Lol
Seriously though Philip, the farmer at Thirsk who towed us off said, ' I would have thought all these machines would be 4 wheel drive'

Are merc 4 wheel drives available for MH's yet?(Not the huge ones in your pic)

I think merc do one, i,m sure i,ve seen advertised in a brochure at the truck dealer. Would of thought they'd be in demand for motorhomes.

Would be my ideal base vehicle.

Paul.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

coppo said:


> Are merc 4 wheel drives available for MH's yet?(Not the huge ones in your pic)
> 
> I think merc do one, i,m sure i,ve seen advertised in a brochure at the truck dealer. Would of thought they'd be in demand for motorhomes.
> 
> ...


Here you are. Weinsberg used to make two versions, this LEV and a 'chunkier' one. I'm not sure if they are still available, but the website seems live.

http://www.weinsberg-lev.com/en/

If you really want to see all-terrain motorhomes, look here.

http://www.unicat.net/en/index.html

Philip


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Rear wheel drive where the weight is does help. 
Most Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen fwd vans just scrabble about when lose gravel or grass is under the front wheels. Look at the shows where they always keep a couple of tractors handy to help vans on their way after the show.

My wife used to drive a tag bus on a Talbot full of disabled kids and their wheelchairs with a heavy tail lift. Never could get up a slight slope where gravel was. 

All our American RVs had the weight where the drive wheels were. Twin rears and we never had any trouble even in mud.

Ray.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

When you reverse a front wheel drive vehicle you effectively have rear wheel drive.

Another method is to start the engine with the clutch up in second gear and hand brake off.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Have you yhought of changing your username to stickin- themud

Yeah mh`s a terrible in mud snow and wet grass.
i do not see why we buy them  

Dave p


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## Spooky_b329 (Jan 24, 2009)

_Another method is to start the engine with the clutch up in second gear and hand brake off._

Nooo! Try that in a Transit and you will blow the main fuses on the battery! Can't be good for any vehicle.

I don't really see the advantage of 2nd gear, you have less feel and when the wheel does spin, it spins up quickly and starts digging, whereas in first it would spin slowly and you can stop it instantly. Even in the stall happy Transits, you can just bring the clutch up gently with your foot off the gas, if it won't pull out doing that, you're done.

I got stuck at the weekend, pulled off a single track road onto grass on a private estate to allow another horsebox to pass the other way, I hadn't planned on stopping but had to slow right down as the back of the van was slewing sideways from the weight of the trailer. As I rejoined the road the van ground to a halt with the rear drive wheels a mere 2 metres from the tarmac. Tried rocking (horse didn't appreciate that) and then put some carpet under the spinning wheel, but when it eventually grabbed it, the carpet just helped the tyre scoop out a 6 inch hole in the pristine grass :? Ended up unhitching the trailer, driving onto the road and then towing the trailer off the grass using a tow rope. Then we got outta there before anyone noticed the devastation


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

previous postings have recommended cutting up bread trays , using the base section to get grip i have got hold of 8 for my mate and I but have yet to figure out which part to keep/cut for most effective use , look as though they would shatter if unbraced??


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

rugbyken said:



> previous postings have recommended cutting up bread trays , using the base section to get grip i have got hold of 8 for my mate and I but have yet to figure out which part to keep/cut for most effective use , look as though they would shatter if unbraced??


Cut the sides off, and keep the base. You can link them together using heavy cable ties. If you use them to assist out of soft ground, try some large pegs to stop them being "slung out" by the wheels.

PS. If you don't want them, sling them my way!


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

JeanLuc said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > Are merc 4 wheel drives available for MH's yet?(Not the huge ones in your pic)
> ...


Weinsburg bases look just the ticket, now why don't Hymer,Concorde, N&B etc get there bloody fingers out and make some?

Paul.


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## The-Clangers (Sep 18, 2009)

Try Snowsocks instead of snowchains. Had both chains and socks in use over the past 2 days of snow. Chains snapped, snowsocks pulled 5 vans through the snow, and much easier to put on and take off. Just about to order another 2 sets of them. 

David


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Spooky_b329 said:


> _
> 
> I don't really see the advantage of 2nd gear, quote]
> 
> The advantage of second gear is that there is less torque at the driving wheels than in first gear. (Not more torque as stated in one of the previous posts). It is torque (i.e. turning moment) that causes wheelspin. I have often got going in second gear when others have been stuck spinning their wheels in first. On one occasion when I couldn't get up an icy hill even in second gear I got up in third. Not liked by the clutch, though, but I'm still on the original after 70,000 miles, (in my Alhambra)._


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## LongGone (Sep 5, 2008)

They sell MH's with road tyres because that's what they are built to do, travel the highways. Nice truck, all wheel drive, but, believe me they get stuck just the same and just as often. I've recovered enough of them to know though, that half were bogged because of driver error or a mis-calculaton in what the vehicle was capable of. You would be amazed how many tracked machines get bogged, even the ones equipped with extra wide pads, so I think motorhomes and there drivers do pretty well on the whole. One thing I never fail to do is get out and walk to where I want to park. Saved me a lot of embarassment has that.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

We have 6 old bread crate base which we can make a small road out of, and if that fails we have snow chains which are great in both mud and snow.

We go to many ralleys and CL/CS and have not yet been towed out (I bet a I regret saying that)


Our van has Michelin XCA Camping tyres on which are not very good in the mud but I have now got some of the newer Agils camping to try and they are M&S rated, so should be much better. Also as said before a lot of people have there tyre pressures far to high which would reduce the traction given by the tyre.


Richard...


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Had to be towed out of a field for the first time last wed week on a CL near stratford-Upon-Avon. Big jcb did the trick, it pulled us out like it was a toy.  

I actually got stuck when we first pulled onto the field but, surprisingly enough I used the crappy pair of yellow mud grip things we have and it bit just enough to get us moving and out of trouble, so we was grateful for them at that time. 8O 

Steve


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Stuck*

Hi

I have only been stuck once and so since then will not camp on grass etc and tend not to use CL's. I am on a commercial site at the moment and I have paid £25.50 for three nights, hard stand with hook up, so for me, there is no value in using CL's. I will admit though, the attraction of being in a field for example, with no one around is better than being on a large site with neighbours on every pitch, but in winter, even many large sites resemble a CL due to low numbers etc.

Here is me being pulled off by a tractor! Jenny in the passenger seat laughing to herself!

Russell


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

RichardnGill said:


> We have 6 old bread crate base which we can make a small road out of, and if that fails we have snow chains which are great in both mud and snow.
> 
> We go to many ralleys and CL/CS and have not yet been towed out (I bet a I regret saying that)
> 
> ...


Hi Richard, where do you get the bread crates from? and has anyone got a photo as i not sure what they look like or if there is an alternative i could utilise.
Do you park the drive wheels on the crates all the time then if on a field(in case it rains)?

Paul.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

coppo said:


> ..... where do you get the bread crates from? and has anyone got a photo as i not sure what they look like or if there is an alternative i could utilise.
> Do you park the drive wheels on the crates all the time then if on a field(in case it rains)?
> 
> Paul.


You have to 'acquire' them I'm afraid Paul. Strictly speaking, they are the property of the industrial bakeries and they employ a team of 'bread-tray police' to recover stolen ones. Now whether you would get caught, and what they would do about it in the case of a lone motorhomer, remains an interesting question. However, when I worked in the meat products industry many years ago, we took a pretty firm line, and organised several 'raids' on market traders / car-boot sales etc. in order to recover sausage and pie trays. Prosecution normally followed a successful visit.

I repeat all this gloom & doom simply because I approached our local bakery asking whether they had any damaged trays I could have, to put under the wheels. They politely refused, giving the explanation above. All trays have the owner's details moulded into them. You only want the bottoms (cut off the sides) so if there is no mark on the bottom - you're fine. Otherwise, I guess you could grind it off.

I decided to stay legit and bought sand, or bridging ladders as used by the 4x4 off-road brigade. They are very strong, a bit on the heavy side, bigger than bread trays, and would probably take the weight of the van in bridging mode - not that I'm about to try it.

I bought a pair 1 metre x 30 cm each for about £60. You put them under the driven (rear in our case) wheels when parking on ground that might be slippery, or use them to get over 'sticky bits', but obviously, they will only cover a small problem area.

Link to the supplier below.

Philip

http://www.duratread.co.uk/sand_bridging_ladders.html


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

JeanLuc said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> > ..... where do you get the bread crates from? and has anyone got a photo as i not sure what they look like or if there is an alternative i could utilise.
> ...


Thanks for that Philip,
I may politely ask then if i see them being used, would never just take as thats stealing. The thing is, when i had my own shop 10 years ago i had loads of these lying around as i had bread delivered daily, bloody marvelous. 

I can see the duratreads being very useful to get you moving, which is the critical thing in most cases(unless very soft), although they are quite heavy as you say at 11kg each.

Cheers, Paul.


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