# Oversize RVs and the Law



## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

This question has probably been asked and answered before but I can't find it.. 

Question: 
If an RV has been registered and taxed but is later found out to be too wide can the DVLA (or anyone else) take legal action, prevent it being used and prosecute the offender.? 

My own thoughts are that they cannot.


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Do not quote me I but I would say yes they can.

Also at the moment the local taxation offices, are spending an increasing amount of time inspecting import R.V.'s and imported motorhomes prior to them being registered. Because I think it was early this year there were a number of R.V.'s that were registered , but registration was given on the information supplied by the importer, and then found to be incorrect. ( for whatever reason )

Hence there is more inspections now being undertaken.

regards Ken


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Ken

I've been following the oversize debate on a couple of forums, if as you suggest dealers were giving false information when registering then it follows that the registration itself is void, making the RV illegal but can the buyer be then prosecuted and made to export it back to the US. at his own cost.. ? 
For peace of mind I measured mine, it is 96" wall to wall + awning making it ~~ 101" (excluding mirrors and running lights.) 
Wide bodied RVs are 102" wall to wall + awning.. making them 107"


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Jim,. thats what I like nice straight forward questions.

Dangerous thing do here, I assume ( and we all know what that did ) yes I can envisage the situation that a dealer may have knowingly or otherwise obtained a registration that was incorrect. If subsequently it was found that the vehicle did not measure upto the information provided at time of registration, a prohibition notice could be issued to stop the vehicle from being used on the road. It is then possible you could not use that vehicle on the highway, but I am certain that there are no powers to have the vehicle re-exported to its origin of departure.

I am sorry this does not really help.

Ken


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

_My own thoughts are that they cannot._

Regardless of the actual law my thoughts Jim are these people do as they like.

What would someone do if they were pulled over by a police check point and a DVLA official, backed by police officers, confiscate it and then have it squashed because it is too wide? Court claims would then take years to get anywhere.

stew


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## 98483 (Apr 3, 2006)

Roadworthiness Prohibition - PG9
Issued by VOSA in respect of mechanical defects, condition of bodywork, immediate and delayed are issued depending on the severity of the defect.

until rectified, a pg9 keeps you off the road.

hope that answers your question.

and trust me, these people are anal.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Pam 202 are you familiar with how a PG9 is lifted?


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Another point to consider, heavens forbid, this fictitious vehicle is involved a serious accident, multiple damage not only to the vehicle itself but other vehicles, accident / insurance investigators discover the vehicle is outside of permitted U.K. road going regulations. What view will the insurers now take ?


thanks Ken


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Very good point Ken

stew


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

As far as I am aware a PG9, can be lifted providing the reason it was issued is rectified, for example a vehicle is found to have a faulty breaking system, once this has been rectified, the PG9 can be lifted.

Ken


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Paras 2.5 and 2.6 of this seem quite clear:
> DOT How to import <

including "The maximum permitted width of vehicles in GB is 2.55m",

and IMHO the possession of a registration document does not waive the necessity for a vehicle to comply with UK law.

Dave


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> and IMHO the possession of a registration document does not waive the necessity for a vehicle to comply with UK law.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave.. I agree on this but consider this senario... 
the man from the ministry pulls an RV in for inspection, the driver produces his log book, MOT and Insurance cert.. tax disc is in date,.. the ministry man inspects the RV with a fine tooth comb , can't find a single mechanical or electrical fault, but decides to measure it and finds it overwidth by 2" .. does he now issue the PG9 and put the fulltiming family on the verge of the roadside, homeless and at the mercy of the elements .. melodramic yes, but is this what is being suggested ? 
This owner didn't import the RV, it's had two previous owners, first registered several years ago.. so he can't be held responsible for the illegal import, he bought in good faith from a dealer.. sound familiar ?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi the words 'illegal import' have been used. Surely its not illegal to import them or (thanks to the famous case) illegal to sell them, just illegal to use them. Therefore it only ever comes down to whoever is using it on the road when the 'offence' is committed.

I'm no lawyer but as an illustration of the principle think back to the days when you could buy a telephone with a green spot on that was legal to connect to a BT phoneline or a red triangle which meant it was not. It was obvious to everyone that for 99% of purchases if you bought a red triangle item you were going to connect it to the BT network but no offense occurred until you actually did. So they weren't illegal to import or sell. 

I know it doesn't seem right or fair but am I correct?


Regards Frank


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Another example might be someone buys a car and decideds to finance it. Before the finance is paid off he decideds to sell it for cash. The buyer fails to do an HPI check and pays up. He does not like the car and so sells it on for cash again. Regardless of how many times the car is sold on if nobody bothers to do an HPI check then nobody will realise the car still actually belongs to the credit company. The first buyer now suddenly does a runner and stops paying the finance. The finance company registers it as stolen and suddenly the current owners only recourse is to try to get the money back from his seller and so on and so on. 

In the case of the fulltiming family the fact that they have no where to live will not change the law, they might now be in a position to claim social housing though. 

Personally I can see the reason for the law. I should declare quickly that at some point we will be investing in an RV but lets be honest they were designed for the big american roads that have very little traffic not our little things that are crammed packed with vehicles. Whether 102 inches is right or not they had to arrive at some sort of figure. Can you imagine driving along in your Ford Focus and seeing a 150 inch monster coming at you the other way.

The real problem is with the law is they do not seem to have legislated for vehicles already over here. Like us oldies can drive any vehicle upto 7.5 ton recently passed drivers can't. What will happen is some upstart will use the law to do what Jim describes.


stew


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"be too wide can the DVLA (or anyone else) take legal action ....
My own thoughts are that they cannot."

Jim,

My thoughts are they can! *Would* they, *now*, is a different question, to which I would answer almost certainly not. Would they in a couple of years? Unfortunately it depends how their current zest for eliminating oversize RVs pans out. My reading of the situation is that they feel they have things under control to stop blatant breaches and things getting worse. They will probably just let time take its due course to complete their "80%" solution.

IMHO the most likely nightmare scenario involving an owner with an oversize RV is where there is an expensive accident, or one where significant injury or worse is sustained, where size of the vehicle, to a reasonable person, is a factor. Now that scenario could easily end up with the RV owner losing the shirt off their back, despite what that silly judge said in the infamous overwide RV case.

Dave


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Good morning all..

Frank.. correct, they are not illegal imports.

Dave.. a considered and balanced appraisal.

Stew.. totally agree . .

Clearly there have to be laws regulating vehicle sizes and the present legal width shouldn't be changed to accommodate imported RVs but there are already many over sized RVs on the road today.. the 'regulations' have been flouted by dealers who have knowingly imported, registered and sold over sized vehicles.. 
What's to be done about registered vehicles.. the DVLA were lax in there duty, the importer was cavalier and now the customer faces the prospect of either driving an illegal vehicle or at best selling it on .. 
The DVLA have clamped down on over sized, quite correct but dealers are still selling them.. what is going on ? Jo public is still buying and driving them.. uninsured and illegally ?? 
My thoughts are that vehicles registered before the DVLA clamp down should be allowed to remain and be exempt from the size restriction, unregistered new vehicles sitting in the showroom should be sent back to uncle sam at the dealers expense.

Edit

This may be of interest... 102" RVs are not legal in all US states on all roads !

http://www.two-lane.com/widebody.html


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

This same topic is going on with German caravans (i.e, twin axled Hobby's) which are 2.5 metres wide where the law allows 2.3 metres wide in the UK (2.5 metres in Europe)

Most owners are fully aware of the situation but carry on accepting that if an accident occurs they will not be insured and they could alway be pulled by the police.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

RR said:


> This same topic is going on with German caravans (i.e, twin axled Hobby's) which are 2.5 metres wide where the law allows 2.3 metres wide in the UK (2.5 metres in Europe)
> 
> Most owners are fully aware of the situation but carry on accepting that if an accident occurs they will not be insured and they could alway be pulled by the police.


If the quoted 2.5m rule is * true * (and I would be surprised frankly if it is otherwise it would have come up here before) for the rest of EU then that may be the salvation for oversize RVs here because harmonisation of legislation is one of the aims of the EU.

Frank


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## dawnraider (Apr 2, 2006)

Hi guys, the maximum permitted length is 12m, and maximum width is 2.55m increased from 2.5m in 1995.

Also under the Construction & Use Regulations it is an offence for a person whom earns a living from selling vehicles to sell a vehicle over these dimensions. 



Ken


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> RR said:
> 
> 
> > This same topic is going on with German caravans (i.e, twin axled Hobby's) which are 2.5 metres wide where the law allows 2.3 metres wide in the UK (2.5 metres in Europe)
> ...


Maximum Trailer Dimensions

Towing vehicle up to 3500kg GVW 
Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 7.0 m 
Width Maximum 2.3 m

Towing vehicle over 3500kg GVW 
Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 12 m (min 4 wheels) 
Width Maximum 2.55 m 
Length of towing vehicle and trailer combined 18 m 
Maximum overhang of load from rear of trailer 3.05 m

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/dimensions.htm


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi

There are exceptions to the max length,

Bus/coach with two axles:
13.5 (was 12m)

Bus/coach with more than two axles:
15m (was 12m)

Articulated bus:
18.75m (was 18m)

Bus drawing a trailer:
18.75m (previously omitted from regulations)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_507657.hcsp


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

Just been chatting with agent searching for a vehicle for me and he reckons most slide out are oversize.

Suppose he could be wrong but comes well recommended.


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## 96475 (Oct 9, 2005)

RR said:


> Just been chatting with agent searching for a vehicle for me and he reckons most slide out are oversize.
> 
> Hi RR,
> 
> ...


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi i don't see how the insurance issue comes in to it, that "silly" judge was a law lord and along with his two oppo's agreed that overwidth was not a reason to "avoid the insurance" and the NFU agreed with him. 

Olley


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