# Filling up with LPG



## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

I know many people are a little apprehensive about filling up with LPG for the first time, don't worry have a look at THIS to see how easy it is.

Safe travelling.

Don


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

nice link Don, did you create that Document ?


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

nukeadmin said:


> nice link Don, did you create that Document ?


Dave,

I've had the document for about 18 months and I think it was posted on here before.

I got it from HERE (I think) but it's no longer available.

Don


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Many thanks for that. I have nearly tried my first fill up 4 times now but I have always chickened out. Luckily Chelston had stuck some gas in to test the gaslow bottles so I am OK so far. 

To be fair to myself, I think most people that know me would accept that if there is one person liable to blow a BP Service Station into oblivion it will be me.

But now I have these instructions, I will take them with me which will inspire me with confidence even though I could possibly be the first item on the nine o'clock news.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Don Madge said:


> ....filling up with LPG for the first time


Thank you Don - we've had our RV for over a year but still haven't had to refill yet! The nightmare I have is pulling into - and then blocking as usual - the forecourt, and making a complete cods of it whilst six car drivers sit drumming their fingers. 

Dougie.


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## Auchmill (Oct 1, 2007)

Don't you take your blue light with you? :wink:


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Link doesnt work Don.. ?

Sorry, second link does work (boostLGP site)

on the subject of LGP at filling stations.. how come its measured in litres? (or is it) if you put 60 litres in , they must be compressed liters?

John


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## Auchmill (Oct 1, 2007)

LPG is a gas under pressure which changes it to a liquid. Hence liquefied petroleum gas, aka LPG.


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

johng1974 said:


> Link doesnt work Don.. ?
> 
> Sorry, second link does work (boostLGP site)
> 
> ...


Hi John,

Both links work for me OK.

LPG like diesel/petrol is measured in litres.

Been filling up with LPG for 4 years now and never thought about it being compressed.

My bottle will take about 22 litres when empty, that's liquid so I'm not sure about it being compressed. Maybe one of our enlightened members will explain.

Regards

Don


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Thanks Auchmill..

bit sleepy today...

So is it fair to assume that a litre of (compressed) LPG weighs 1 KG ?


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Don thanks.. So 22L for your domestic gas, is that comparable to say, a 19KG Gas bottle..?

I am just wondering holw long my domestic LPG tank will last, as I have never filled it up.. (I use bottles at moment)


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

johng1974 said:


> Thanks Auchmill..
> 
> bit sleepy today...
> 
> So is it fair to assume that a litre of (compressed) LPG weighs 1 KG ?


I have a 13 kg bottle with the 80% stop/fill so it should hold about 20.80 litres but I have got 22 litres in.

Two litres of LPG = 1 Kg.

Don


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Auchmill said:


> Don't you take your blue light with you? :wink:


No, but my wife takes her red one though.

Dougie.


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## Auchmill (Oct 1, 2007)

asprn said:


> Auchmill said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you take your blue light with you? :wink:
> ...


In the immortal words of E Morcambe, there's no answer to that!


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Don Madge said:


> johng1974 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Auchmill..
> ...


Hi who were all those people telling me not to use the gas filling adapter thingy a few days back babling on about overfilling and it being dangerous!!! Then YOU pay all that cash for a 80% fill product that allows you to overfill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WISH i WAS SMART enough just to go stright to the link BUT I am not trawling all the way back :lol: 
terry
heres the link number 349332


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

here
terry


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

maddie said:


> Don Madge said:
> 
> 
> > johng1974 said:
> ...


Hi Terry,

I'm sorry if I confused you but it seems in warmer climates one gets more LPG in than in colder climates.

I did get 22 litres in but that was in Turkey when it was very hot.

Don


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## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

I've owned a few lpg powered vehicles over the years, starting with an old austin 1800 land crab back in 1980. I've never had a problem filling up, but a policewoman friend of mine was off work for months last year, after getting badly burnt on the arm at a Morrisons pump.


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Burn't by a flame or by the frozen connector??

Yes you get a rush of gas when you disconnect the hose as the trapped liquid is released from the space in the nozzle. It's a bit disconcerting the first time and I always keep my hand covered if possible. I worked for years with high pressure gases and liquids so I treat anything that's pressurised with respect. I still don't like blowing up and bursting ballons either :lol: 

The most I've got in my single Gaslow 6kg bottle is 11.08 litres - and the least is about one litre when I thought it was empty - a bit embarrassing as it was in Slovenia and the person who filled it up at a gas filling place was most puzzled :? :? .

Steve


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## mikeyv (May 23, 2007)

homenaway said:


> Burn't by a flame or by the frozen connector??
> 
> Yes you get a rush of gas when you disconnect the hose as the trapped liquid is released from the space in the nozzle. It's a bit disconcerting the first time and I always keep my hand covered if possible.
> Steve


Hi Steve, she was burnt by the rush of gas you mention, as the hose is uncoupled - I had used the same pump myself, and had always thought it was unusually fierce when disconnected, but the damage caused to her arm was still quite a shock.


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

Like a lot of people I was very apprehensive the first time which was on a motorway in Luxembourg. I parked on the forecourt and when someone stopped at the LPG filler i nipped across and watched, It is only after the first time that you realise how easy it is.
The important thing is that after connecting the hose and opening the valve there is a big button on the pump which you press and *hold* if you release it you have to disconnect everything, put the gun back on the pump and start all over again as it won't restart just by pressing the button again.
Cheers Sid


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

The higher the temperature - the *less* gas/liquid you will be able to get into the cylinder.

Basic physical chemistry.

Before filling up my gas soldering iron I would put it in the freezer for a while, at the same time warming the canister of cigarette lighter butane in my hands.

Not suggesting that you do the same with your Gaslows!


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## Auchmill (Oct 1, 2007)

Weights and measures, like litres, are defined at a standard temperature and pressure. Apparently LPG has a relatively high coefficient of expansion so temperature may have some effect on the mass of lpg you get at a pump. Presumably the pump measuring the discharge into your tank can't compensate for different temperatures so you appear to get different numbers of litres at different temperatures.

Maybe that's why some pubs sell warm beer - it takes less of the stuff to fill your glass. :wink: 

No doubt if there's a chemist about we can get a definitive statement.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"It is only after the first time that you realise how easy it is."

How true, Sid. 

The first time I found it helped if before I disconnected I said to myself 5 times "I promise not to wet myself" 

Dave


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## hymerbell (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi, I am thinking of having Gaslo tanks fitted to my Hymer. Is the LPG gas you get equivalent to Propane or Butan. I go skiing a so need propane because of the low temperatures.

Thanks

Alex


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

*Filling up withe the Clawgun*

For those who have never used the "Clawgun" connector on the continent here are a few pointers/observations.

There are at least three different types of "Gun" all of which have three claws, make sure you position the gun so that all three claws engage, unlike the bayonet type you can usually see the claws engaging. It is possible to get only two claws engaging (it's easy I've done it) so be careful.

Two of the guns are quite easy to use, one has a trigger like the bayonet type, another has a handle that's pulled to the rear to lock. The third gun has a sleeve that has to slide to the rear to lock. As I suffer with arthritis and don't have nimble fingers I found it very difficult to use. The problem was holding the gun in position and trying to slide the sleeve back at the same time. I came across this type of gun in a Total filling station.

There are also different ways of disengaging the guns. It's a matter of trail and error, just be prepared for that small escape of the gas. Most pumps have operating details on the side of the pump.

I would suggest for those with an external filling point that they support the gun while it is connected as some guns are quite heavy.

With the "Acme" screw type gun is just a matter of screwing it on, clockwise I think. It's a long time since I used this type.

Safe travelling.

Don


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

hymerbell said:


> Hi, I am thinking of having Gaslo tanks fitted to my Hymer. Is the LPG gas you get equivalent to Propane or Butan. I go skiing a so need propane because of the low temperatures.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex


Hi Alex

The LPG at pumps in the Uk is AFAIK near 100% Propane but the LPG at pumps across Europe can be varying mixes of Propane and Butane. This is a problem for winter users that are using the "Autogas" LPG for domestic use.... you need it as a gas and of course butane does not vaporise at the low temperatures... so what happens is the Propane vaporises off leaving the tank partially filled with Butane.... do this 3 or 4 times and there is no room left for any more LPG in the tank. The soluution ( so I am told, I dont have an LPG tank.....so this is not in any way a suggestion) is to get the tank to a warmer temp and release the butane into the atmosphere..... so much for the environment :roll:

Mike


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

With regards to the propane/butane ratio on the continent I have a saved list from an old post on the O&A forum which is not verified but could give you a rough idea of some of the ratios on the continent....

*"* _ A few examples of the ratio propane to butane (averages) in Europe, you may want to remember when filling-up: 
Austria 50/50 
Belgium 50/50 
Denmark 50/50 
France 35/65 
Italy 25/75 
Netherlands 50/50 
Spain 30/70 
UK 100/0 
Germany 90/10_ * " *

In winter months, there is a possibility that in the colder regions of some countries they might increase the propane element but it would always be adviseable to make sure you have full bottles before leaving UK.

pete


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Spykal wrote
The soluution ( so I am told, I dont have an LPG tank.....so this is not in any way a suggestion) is to get the tank to a warmer temp and release the butane into the atmosphere..... so much for the environment 

All this slagging and dangerous venting just makes me more happy that I bought an adapter as this confirms that the lpg users MAY go through the same proccess as in earlier posts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Again I say open valve on empty cyl, fill, close valve,remove filler--v/simple -no pipes,spring loaded valves to go wrong etc, what more could you ask :lol: 
terry


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

maddie said:


> snip:- All this slagging and dangerous venting just makes me more happy that I bought an adapter as this confirms that the lpg users MAY go through the same proccess as in earlier posts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Again I say open valve on empty cyl, fill, close valve,remove filler--v/simple -no pipes,spring loaded valves to go wrong etc, what more could you ask :lol:
> terry


Hi maddie ...I may be wrong but I think you may be missing the point of my explanation of what happens if you try to use continental autogas over a period of several fills in sub zero temps ... ( note... you do not get a choice of how the gasses are mixed ...you get what comes out of the pump, see the mix figures above)

After several fills of the mixed LPG the gas tank or refillable bottle will be full of Butane. You will not be able to put any more into the tank and what is there will not be useable because it is butane and will not vaporise at the low temperatures experienced in winter ( esp. up a mountain in the alps) :roll:

Mike


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Mike yes point taken :lol: 
It was just that on the other posts- reading back- people said how dngerous the filling adapters were,etc, etc, :lol: :lol: 
terry


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## thegreatpan (Oct 29, 2007)

The gas is liquefied by moderate compression at normal temperatures and is stored in appropriate tanks and cylinders.

The pressure at which LPG becomes liquid, is called its vapour (VP) pressure, the VP varies depending on the combination of the gases and temperature; for example, it is approximately 220 kilopascals (2.2 bar) for pure butane at 20 °C.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

spykal said:


> After several fills of the mixed LPG the gas tank or refillable bottle will be full of Butane. You will not be able to put any more into the tank and what is there will not be useable because it is butane and will not vaporise at the low temperatures experienced in winter ( esp. up a mountain in the alps) :roll:
> 
> Mike


Hi mike do you know this for a "fact" or is it a supposition on your part? I ask because I assume continentals use their cylinders all through the winter without problems or surely we would hear of complaints.

Their winters are generally worse than ours so I would have expected some of them to have had major problems if what you say is correct.

According to this site http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html all that happens is the two gases mix and depending on the mix the vapourising temperature varies. ie. a 50/50 mix gives a vaporising temperature of -10F

Olley


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Olley

Just a quick answer for now...

Not a problem I have had personally but a reported problem by members on here ...and one that we helped sort out... they were skiing and could not understand why the tank was full but nothing was coming out of the tank.

I will try to find the thread but it was a while back...maybe before the big crash.

Mike
P.S. DAB will remember it too I think ...see Here <<

another reference to the problem Here <<


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Olley

Here is a reference to a thread where Peejay outlines the problem ( and he remembers the case I mentioned )

Peejay post <<<

The site you found seems to contradict those experieces.

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I never got beyond this post:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-110125.html#110125

Dave


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Mike ok, sounds like a case of the science not matching the practice. :lol: 

Olley


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

As mentioned elsewhere I called into a garage today and topped up with 100 litres of petrol in the Winnie! Took four spaces in a garage that only has 8 oops. Here is the rig as of today:










Then went to the local lpg stockist to top up the tank and they do the filling, so that was easy peasey.

The only thing that worries me is when I forgot to turn off the fridge and as I took the filler off there was a massive back pressure and smell of gas. On it's own not a problem, except on the Winnie the tank is just below the fridge outlet! Oooh a very scary moment, will never make that mistake again.

Regards

Chris


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The gas should be turned off at the tank when filling, just to stop the outside chance of liquid LPG being forced beyond the regulator. I'm told Gaslow regulators (and no doubt at least some others) are designed NOT to pass liquid gas, so belt and braces.

But even if there isn't a naked flame nearby, the little amount of liquid gas between the valves on release makes me flinch every time :-(

Dave


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> But even if there isn't a naked flame nearby, the little amount of liquid gas between the valves on release makes me flinch every time :-(
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave, I never even think about it, a case of familiarity breeding contempt I suppose, or ignorance is bliss. :lol:

Olley


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm not very strong and find these pumps quite difficult to use, just a bit of useless info.....if you call in at Brownhills Newark (Not that I do unless desperate)...they have a gas pump and will come and do it for you. 
its round the back of the shop..just make sure you know which side your filler is as mine was on the opposite side to everyone else so I had to manouvre a bit.


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## mep (Jan 4, 2008)

*First Fill*

Today i filled my 11kg Gaslow for the first time, no problem connecting fuel gun, when filling there was a high pitched squealling noise (like what you get out of a balloon) due to this i stopped had to pay and start again same thing after 5 ltrs i was a bit concerned so stopped. ( also read somewher first fill - dont fill as 80% valve may fail but ok on second )
I have checked the gauge and it indicates green. ( 5 ltrs is about 25% )
I have tested the cooker and all is well.
My question is do these bottles normally squeal when filling as this did worry me a bit. or is it faulty?
Mick


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## 110279 (Feb 29, 2008)

They are not supposed to squeal when filling, in fact the only noise you should hear is the pump working and your filler button hand cramping, I would have them checked you may have a faulty valve or pipe connection - the squeal sounds like you have gas escaping.
Due to cramped conditions in some lockers the steel lpg filler pipes to Gaslow cylinders can be twisted, this causes a diameter restriction and makes the filling process longer, have them undone and re-fitted, it may also cause the squealing noise.


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