# A photo for Alan,---- Erneboy



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Need something different to a watering can here Alan and Hans never did things by half :laugh:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Some of the weeds I have to tackle*

Including this horrible grass.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Ive got one of those, great machines but we have only ever used it for water, weedkiller would cost an arm and leg here....... it's 15€ for enough for 15 litres so 100 litres would be around 100€ - but the weeds are very pretty, and that price is for pure weedkiller, not a selective broad leaf one..,,,

Oh well...


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Excellent Jan. That's the thing for the job.

That grassy weed in the first photograph will need the Glyphosate based weed killer Jan. Just a misting in the middle will do the job, you don't need to hit every leaf since the weedkiller is systemic.

The MCPA should get the rest OK. If not get some 2,4D. It would have been my first choice for selective action in grass.

I bought this in France last year Dave. https://www.ebay.fr/itm/CLINIC-ST-H...941388?hash=item2887cb544c:g:buwAAOSwFOleN-dz application rate 3 pints to the acre in old money.

I haven't looked for selective but will if you want me to.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*To give you an idea of how much*

I have to deal with, theres several a few square meters. 60m X 42m - the house.
I won´t be doing anything until Tuesday because off the holiday, it´s not appreciated around here to have noisy mowers going on bank holidays.
I have this weed killer as well Alan, he wrote on the bottle Alles so I guess that means radical which I tried in the hand spray yesterday except the sprayer didn't work :frown2:

https://www.topagrar.pl/bazy/baza-srodkow-ochrony-roslin/cordian-450-sl


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes it seems to be Glyphosate too. It'll kill most things, including grasses, but though labels generally claim that Glyphosate is effective against nettles it really isn't once they get to be 200 to 300mm tall. It will kill them when they're just emerging.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Yes it seems to be Glyphosate too. It'll kill most things, including grasses, but though labels generally claim that Glyphosate is effective against nettles it really isn't once they get to be 200 to 300mm tall. It will kill them when they're just emerging.


I don´t think I have any nettles, a few of those big thistles


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Neither of those is much good on thistles Jan, either may work but they aren't the best choice. Give it a go and see.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

I use Glyphosate on our patch and have found it very effective on all weeds bar Mares Tail. It completely cleared our garden of nettles, blackberries, bindweed and ivy over a period of two years.

A 5ltr container is £31 and diluted as per instructions this can last me up to two years. Recommendations for Mares tail would be gratefully received.

No need to comment Raynipper, It doesn't work.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Your not doing it right Drew.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Try cutting the mares tail so that when you spray the chemical it has a way to access the damaged core. Spray using a mist, not a jet of liquid, and only mist the target weeds lightly. Applying weedkillers with a watering can is not very effective due to run off, were all the spots of liquid join together destroying the surface tension of the droplets, and collectively it runs off. Just as droplets of spray will stay in place a pane of glass but if you put a lot on or chuck a bucket of water at it most will run off very quickly.

The problem is that mares tail has a narrow profile and a relatively smooth surface so there's not much for any chemical to adhere too. You could also up the dose rate by around 50% and add a good squeeze of Fairy to the mix to act as an adjuvant. Just mist it on and don't do it in hot sunlight otherwise it will evaporate before it's absorbed.

Repeated applications of Glyphosate when the weed is actively growing will eventually have some effect. It is very hard to kill. There've been dozens of ideas and combinations of weed killers suggested over the years and none have worked particularly well, even years ago when we had access to some really powerful chemicals, all now banned.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Why not just keep the grass short Jan and forget about any weedkillers, glyphosates, why poison the land with nasties.

Work with nature not against it.

Ive never used anything, loads of slugs and snails but the toads and frogs, birds and hedgehogs keep them in check. All the amphibians and birds hate chemicals of any kind.

Keep it natural and enjoy the nature.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

coppo said:


> Why not just keep the grass short Jan and forget about any weedkillers, glyphosates, why poison the land with nasties.
> Work with nature not against it.
> Ive never used anything, loads of slugs and snails but the toads and frogs, birds and hedgehogs keep them in check. All the amphibians and birds hate chemicals of any kind.
> Keep it natural and enjoy the nature.


You have seen pictures of my garden and fields beyond Paul, the day they stop using the stuff so might I, the little bit I use in my garden is equal to the old lady that peed in the sea.
At the moment there are more weeds than grass so I need to weed and then feed.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Jan is right about who uses most chemical and does most damage, though trying to have anything approaching a lawn when you live out in the countryside adjacent to farm land is proper uphill gardening.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We brought a couple of great sacks of Kentucky Blue Grass from the states 14 years ago. Made a gorgeous lawn and almost bowling green image.
But now 14 years later what with the moles, couch and days of back breaking work it's almost back to a field again. 

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

What you need is a goat, or two, Jan  They eat anything but don't like grass much. We miss ours as they used to love hedges and kept all ours nice and trim.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Jan is right about who uses most chemical and does most damage, though trying to have anything approaching a lawn when you live out in the countryside adjacent to farm land is proper uphill gardening.


The big contribution toward my weeds is I don´t have Mother Earth to grow in, weeds grow in anything and anything its what we have been trying to grow grass in for the past 13 years, it´s rubbish, lorry loads of all people can have in this area, its ground up anything from window frames that still obviously have the glass in, old patio slabs, concrete, all the builder rubbish. For the first year we were collecting glass, underneath there will still be glass so it can´t be turned over to bring more glass to the top.

Hans (with Shades help :grin2 worked so hard and the second to tenth year we had quite pleasant grass, then we bought the Navajo, all went downhill after that, we had better things to do than gardening, then His health started to deteriorate as you know, this will be the third year it´s had no real care so as I´m not going anywhere for a while I´ll have a go at being a gardener with advice from Alan and anyone else who wants to chuck there pennyworth. :grin2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Have a look here Jan. It's a weed wiper. You can use it in grass areas to kill coarse grass and not the finer grasses because the coarse grasses grow faster and thus quickly become taller a few days after cutting. The method is just to fill the weed wiper and stroll across the area to be treated simply brushing the wiper over the top of the taller unwanted grasses. There's no need to rub it in or to try to coat every leaf because the chemical get's absorbed into the plant and circulated.

That would leave patches of dead coarse grass but if you keep at it those patches will eventually die and rot allowing the finer grasses around to colonise the area. It's easy but quite a lot of work. There are machine mounted weed wipers you could use but they are expensive. Your local farmers almost certainly use them and might be prepared to do the job now and again for a small fee.

Have a look at the hand held one here: https://rodgersinc.com the idea is just to brush it over the unwanted plants.

If you look at the video here: 



 you'll see a chap repeatedly dabbing weed killer onto the plant and the ground. I'd hold this method up as being exactly the wrong thing to do if you are trying to kill coarse grass but not the finer grasses. It does hit the unwanted grass, and everything immediately around it too. It'll leave unnecessarily large areas of dead grass all over the place. Brushing the tops of only the unwanted plants restricts what you kill to the target plants.

Another way to do it.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Has to come from America Alan, I´ll have probably forgotten what I wanted it for by the time it gets here, or my lust for gardening will have died. :grin2:
I can just imaging if someone had seen that he would now be working on his own patent.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

raynipper said:


> Your not doing it right Drew.
> 
> Ray.


Ray, *IT DOESN'T WORK*.

There is nothing on the market that will kill it, not even Sodium Chlorate. Contact the RHS and ask them, I have tried everything under the sun to eradicate it but it still comes back.

It's even more thick skinned as you, and that is saying something. (I would have inserted one of those smilie things but as you know I don't use them).


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I posted those examples because they showed the good and the bad, both in their design and in the methods of use.

The wrong weed wiper or the wrong method of use can do a lot of damage. I wanted to make that known now rather than risk a "now look at the mess following you advice has caused" moment later, from you or anyone else reading this.

Weed wipers are available everywhere.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I am going to spray this evening, it says there will be no wind.

*Question*, the weeds are really tall after a shower in the night on Sunday, If I spray now and leave it 3 more days they will be gigantic so

If I go over on the highest setting this morning when its dry to trim off the tops will the weed killer work better or worser ?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Generally don't spray right after cutting, because you are reducing the take up area and cutting off the most actively growing parts and it won't work well. So if you cut every 10 day spray after 4 or 5 days. If you cut every 5 days spray after 3 and so on.

Spraying in the morning is better than in the evening. Chemical is better absorbed in day light.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Generally don't spray right after cutting, because you are reducing the take up area and cutting off the most actively growing parts and it won't work well. So if you cut every 10 day spray after 4 or 5 days. If you cut every 5 days spray after 3 and so on.
> 
> Spraying in the morning is better than in the evening. Chemical is better absorbed in day light.


Thank you Alan, I will cut it today, probably have to do it twice because its so long.
Normally we cut every 3-4 days because it mulches as well so if I cut today leave it until Friday before I spray that should be right, yes?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Probably Jan. It depends when you next cut it. You really need not to cut for a few days, say three or four to let the chemical get into the plant's system. The point is that in most plants it's best absorbed by the growing tips.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Sprayed this morning, there wasn't a breath of wind when I started, then a slight breeze after a while, but I thought ´oh fiddle I´m not stopping now I´m in the swing´, hopefully it wasn't too strong a breeze to ruin my effort. I did the most important places with the hand spray that's fitted to the tank, then the rest with the tank and it was just the right amount would you believe, maybe one pass to less.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The wind won't effect the working of the spray. It just blows it onto places you weren't aiming, but where you are that's not a problem I think.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> The wind won't effect the working of the spray. It just blows it onto places you weren't aiming, but where you are that's not a problem I think.


If only I could have undone the star shaped nuts there is an adjustment Hans made to lower the spray, but I´m not too strong enough :frown2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Post a photo and perhaps we'll be able to suggest a way to undo your nuts.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

It needs a spanner, but it´s done up Hans tight so I think it also needs a mallet to undo it.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The bit to the left looks like a knob for turning by hand. I try putting vice grips, stilsons/pipe wrench or water pump pliers on it and giving it a wind anti-clockers.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Looks as if the weed killer is working, the dandelion leaves are reaching for the sky, not sure if its going to do anything to the fern type or ground hugging ones. I expect I will know by Tuesday when it can be cut.

I don´t know if I will need the tank anymore unless I can get some liquid fertiliser from the farm so won´t worry about lowering the spray, but will try to loosen the nuts so that I can easily lower it if I need to.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

There's no problem spraying from a bit of a height Jan. Usually a certain amount is required so as not to have gaps between what's covered by one nozzle and the next. Too low and you get stripes being missed between what the nozzles cover. 

Generally spraying at a height of between one and two feet is about right.


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