# I need a Gatzo Blaster!



## philbre

can you confidently recommend any mobile speed trap indicators

we have hundreds of these revenue collecting mobile vehicles unleashed on us today, as if we didnt have enough taxes to pay

thanx in advance

phil


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## Addie

I have had a 'New Road Angel Compact' hard-wired into my car for the last 5 years since my days as a travelling salesman and it has saved my bacon countless times.

I've probably done close to 150,000 miles with it and no points to show for it - and I don't hang around on my regular drive from York to London.

There are all manor of colour / remote controlled devices with extra sensors for bumpers and bootlids and what not - but this to me is a small, simple device. Great for all cameras, average speed cameras, mobile locations and accident black spots. 

You can pick them up on eBay for under £50 and Subscription to BlackSpot is £3.99 a month for unlimited updates (the device reminds you after 30 days).

The only downfall I find is that it doesn't tell you the speed limit for the road on which you are travelling. But 99% of the time that isn't an issue.

Hopefully someone will come along with recommendations for another device to give you a more balanced view.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I used to use one until I was informed that it was illegal.
I watch my speed and sat nav lets me know when i am speeding.
Dave pl


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## bookworm

I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!


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## CurlyBoy

bookworm said:


> I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!


I think I'm right in saying that a GPS readout is more accurate, I only say this as I use it in my TR6 as the speedo is wildely inaccurate as I have low profile tyres fitted, not to provoke controversy.

curlyboy


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## philbre

*one day at a time sweet jesus....*



bookworm said:


> I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!


not everyone keeps to the letter of the law at all times

at least i certainly dont wrt speed

its such a pity my q couldn't be answered as asked!


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## Hobbyfan

I have a Novus GPS Rider, which is not illegal and it has the co-ordinates of every speed camera and SPECS speed traps in the UK. It even has the favourite spots for mobile speed camera units as well.

It isn't radar so won't detect a mobile unit but, even with radar ones you can be on it and caught before you realise, and radar units don't recognise SPECS zones.

They are incredibly inexpensive, have no annual fee like most of the others, and you can update the camera database free of charge any time you like using any computer.

http://tinyurl.com/32pq8ch

Finally, just ignore the people who tell you that the best way to avoid speeding is to simply watch your speedo. It is so easy these days to accidentally speed whilst you are concentrating on other things, such as navigation or heavy traffic. For £85 why risk your licence and heavy fines?


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## paulmold

I use a Talex Lite when in unfamiliar areas. It is not a laser detector, which are illegal in some countries and likely to be here soon, but a GPS locator, warns of all types including mobile locations. Also warns of schools, dangerous junctions and steep hills. You can update it every month, costs around £3 per month by direct debit or some models come with lifetime subscription updates included. Also shows your speed. I got mine off Ebay and just checked and there are 4 on there at the moment.


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## locovan

Our Tom Tom says " warning Gazo ahead"


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## Addie

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I used to use one until I was informed that it was illegal.
> I watch my speed and sat nav lets me know when i am speeding.
> Dave pl


This is not correct - perfectly legal here in the UK.


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## CaGreg

I wonder if these cameras will have signal that can be picked up on GPS? We were frequently beeped in France when approaching speed camera locations. 

I spent the morning with Road Safety people, who hope that these cameras will save lives, which is their main function, given that the operators get a flat fee per image/per hour, rather than a commission for offenses. There is a good map on the Garda website showing the location of the cameras, which might be useful to look at before you undertake a journey. They are also very visible, no hiding behind hedges in this case. 

I am happy to see them. road deaths are a terrible thing to live with,

Regards
Ca


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## Annsman

*Re: one day at a time sweet jesus....*



philbre said:


> bookworm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!
> 
> 
> 
> not everyone keeps to the letter of the law at all times
> 
> at least i certainly dont wrt speed
> 
> its such a pity my q couldn't be answered as asked!
Click to expand...

So what is it about your life/job that you feel gives you the right not to concentrate on what speed you are actually doing whilst in your car? Does that mean should the worst happen and you actually have an accident, you would consider it their fault because you were too busy/important to "obey the letter of the law".

What you are doing is making the assumption that your life is more important that anyone elses. It's not, it's just you're more selfish.


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## karlb

*Re: one day at a time sweet jesus....*



Annsman said:


> philbre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bookworm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!
> 
> 
> 
> not everyone keeps to the letter of the law at all times
> 
> at least i certainly dont wrt speed
> 
> its such a pity my q couldn't be answered as asked!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is it about your life/job that you feel gives you the right not to concentrate on what speed you are actually doing whilst in your car? Does that mean should the worst happen and you actually have an accident, you would consider it their fault because you were too busy/important to "obey the letter of the law".
> 
> What you are doing is making the assumption that your life is more important that anyone elses. It's not, it's just you're more selfish.
Click to expand...

please read your post again......then breath.......then tell us who is doing the assuming!!! :roll:


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## rayc

bookworm said:


> I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a speedometer!!


It will not neccesarily protect you in Dorset: 
prosecuted for 13mph


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## Westbay

*Re: one day at a time sweet jesus....*



philbre said:


> not everyone keeps to the letter of the law at all times
> 
> at least i certainly dont wrt speed


So, when some underlife breaks into your vehicle to snatch laptop/satnav/radio to fuel his drug habit and says

"not everyone keeps to the letter of the law at all times . . . etc etc

that'll be fine then :evil: :twisted: :?


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## sallytrafic

philbre said:


> can you confidently recommend any mobile speed trap indicators
> 
> we have hundreds of these revenue collecting mobile vehicles unleashed on us today, as if we didnt have enough taxes to pay
> 
> thanx in advance
> 
> phil


Just like to comment on one thing OP said. 'revenue collecting' I thought that myth was dispelled after central government withdrew the subsidy for them and local government has started turning them off because they can't afford to run them.


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## Annsman

I was just reacting to the phrase that he doesn't stick to the letter of the law with regards to speeding at all times. From that I _assumed _he felt that he felt that if _he_ chose to, He could speed, therefore he's being incredibly selfish in his disregard of other people. I've been to a few accidents where people have been killed or injured by people speeding and it is rarely their fault.

BTW I've breathed and I still feel the same.


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## pippin

The best gadget you can use is the MK1 I-ball.

It is switched on all the time when I am driving - works a treat.

Costs me £500 every couple of years or so when I have to update with new lenses.

My SatNav also reminds me with a nagging voice "You are over the speed limit" - I just can't shut the cow up, other than by reducing my speed.

However, she is sometimes really wrong about the speed limit.

New limits are being implemented all the time.

New 40's, 40's down to 30's - Oh, the roads people can be really crafty the way they change things.

Oh yes, they do tell us in advance but how many of us who are pootling along actually stop and read those planning notices flapping in the breeze, pinned to telegraph poles?

I do, then discover it is for a new porch application - and then I notice the traffic backed up trying to get past me as I have parked up to read it just in case it is about a new speed limit.

I am sorry that I have not answered your original question.

I am not preaching to you either.

It is just that if you rely on these gadgets you are more likely to speed and then get caught by that blasted new speed limit or new camera.

I don't know about the Gardai, but in France they frequently operate one camera which you see easily, then you relax and speed up again, only to be caught by the one a couple of hundred of metres further on that is hidden behind a bush!


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## rayc

sallytrafic said:


> philbre said:
> 
> 
> 
> can you confidently recommend any mobile speed trap indicators
> 
> we have hundreds of these revenue collecting mobile vehicles unleashed on us today, as if we didnt have enough taxes to pay
> 
> thanx in advance
> 
> phil
> 
> 
> 
> Just like to comment on one thing OP said. 'revenue collecting' I thought that myth was dispelled after central government withdrew the subsidy for them and local government has started turning them off because they can't afford to run them.
Click to expand...

Frank, I think you will find that except for Wiltshire, where the Partnership has folded, only fixed cameras have been switched off. Mobile Camera vans have in some cases been increased. Fixed cameras have been loosing money for a long time whilst mobile traps are a better earner.
In the OP's area all the traps are mobile. The income from Penalties go to the Government who are paying the private enforcers. It would stretcgh credibility to believe the Government willl be happy to fund a loss making operation. Ray


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## CaGreg

sallytrafic said:


> Just like to comment on one thing OP said. 'revenue collecting' I thought that myth was dispelled after central government withdrew the subsidy for them and local government has started turning them off because they can't afford to run them.[/quote
> 
> Frank, I think Phil is referring to the new speed cameras in Ireland, which are being run by a private company and theywill be paid a flat fee per image, on an hourly basis, with nothing extra for those caught speeding. The follow up will be done by the gardai, who will issue the fines and penalty points.
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1115/cameras.html
> 
> It was realised that mistakes were made in other jurisdictions by paying the camera operators for catching speeders, so this system is different to the one in the UK, and other places.
> 
> Ca


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## rayc

Annsman said:


> I was just reacting to the phrase that he doesn't stick to the letter of the law with regards to speeding at all times. From that I _assumed _he felt that he felt that if _he_ chose to, He could speed, therefore he's being incredibly selfish in his disregard of other people. I've been to a few accidents where people have been killed or injured by people speeding and it is rarely their fault.
> 
> BTW I've breathed and I still feel the same.


The reason that 'speeding', in the sense of getting a Fixed Penalty, is not regarded as antisocial as Drink Driving is because the vast majority, if not all of drivers, exceed the limit at some point in their driving careers. Judges do it, Policemen do it and no doubt members of Camera Partnerships do it.

The link below is to one of the worst cases of an innocent pedestrian killed by a driver doing 90mph in a 30 limit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8028666.stm


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## philbre

*you must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



CaGreg said:


> I wonder if these cameras will have signal that can be picked up on GPS? We were frequently beeped in France when approaching speed camera locations.
> 
> I spent the morning with Road Safety people, who hope that these cameras will save lives, which is their main function, given that the operators get a flat fee per image/per hour, rather than a commission for offenses. There is a good map on the Garda website showing the location of the cameras, which might be useful to look at before you undertake a journey. They are also very visible, no hiding behind hedges in this case.
> 
> I am happy to see them. road deaths are a terrible thing to live with,
> 
> Regards
> Ca


the gatso van i met today was covert, not overt as alledged by the cops
a plain van 10 KY regand was on a stretch of road where the local policeman told me today that there hasnt been an accident in the last FIVE years
So I disagree with you
In my opinion, its there simply to make money as it is in most countries


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## philbre

CaGreg said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like to comment on one thing OP said. 'revenue collecting' I thought that myth was dispelled after central government withdrew the subsidy for them and local government has started turning them off because they can't afford to run them.[/quote
> 
> Frank, I think Phil is referring to the new speed cameras in Ireland, which are being run by a private company and theywill be paid a flat fee per image, on an hourly basis, with nothing extra for those caught speeding. The follow up will be done by the gardai, who will issue the fines and penalty points.
> 
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1115/cameras.html
> 
> It was realised that mistakes were made in other jurisdictions by paying the camera operators for catching speeders, so this system is different to the one in the UK, and other places.
> 
> Except that these mobile revenuc collecters are likely to run 24 hrs a day in certain areas, where there are known fatalities, perhaps yes, where there is known £ to be made, YES
> 
> Ca
Click to expand...


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## CaGreg

*Re: you must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



philbre said:


> CaGreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if these cameras will have signal that can be picked up on GPS? We were frequently beeped in France when approaching speed camera locations.
> 
> I spent the morning with Road Safety people, who hope that these cameras will save lives, which is their main function, given that the operators get a flat fee per image/per hour, rather than a commission for offenses. There is a good map on the Garda website showing the location of the cameras, which might be useful to look at before you undertake a journey. They are also very visible, no hiding behind hedges in this case.
> 
> I am happy to see them. road deaths are a terrible thing to live with,
> 
> Regards
> Ca
> 
> 
> 
> the gatso van i met today was covert, not overt as alledged by the cops
> a plain van 10 KY regand was on a stretch of road where the local policeman told me today that there hasnt been an accident in the last FIVE years
> So I disagree with you
> In my opinion, its there simply to make money as it is in most countries
Click to expand...

I spent two hours with the Chief Exec of the Road Safety Authority this morning and he is concerned about the pubic view of the new Speed Cameras. He realises that there is a lot of suspicion about their function. He thinks that in time, with the continuing decrease in road fatalities that they will eventually be seen in a positive way, just as other measures have become accepted.

Ca


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## cabra

*Speed trap indicators*

Finally, just ignore the people who tell you that the best way to avoid speeding is to simply watch your speedo. It is so easy these days to accidentally speed whilst you are concentrating on other things, such as navigation or heavy traffic. For £85 why risk your licence and heavy fines?

I would have thought when concentrating on navigation speed would be the priority and when in heavy traffic impossible?


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## philbre

*Re: you must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



CaGreg said:


> philbre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CaGreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if these cameras will have signal that can be picked up on GPS? We were frequently beeped in France when approaching speed camera locations.
> 
> I spent the morning with Road Safety people, who hope that these cameras will save lives, which is their main function, given that the operators get a flat fee per image/per hour, rather than a commission for offenses. There is a good map on the Garda website showing the location of the cameras, which might be useful to look at before you undertake a journey. They are also very visible, no hiding behind hedges in this case.
> 
> I am happy to see them. road deaths are a terrible thing to live with,
> 
> Regards
> Ca
> 
> 
> 
> the gatso van i met today was covert, not overt as alledged by the cops
> a plain van 10 KY regand was on a stretch of road where the local policeman told me today that there hasnt been an accident in the last FIVE years
> So I disagree with you
> In my opinion, its there simply to make money as it is in most countries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I spent two hours with the Chief Exec of the Road Safety Authority this morning and he is concerned about the pubic view of the new Speed Cameras. He realises that there is a lot of suspicion about their function. He thinks that in time, with the continuing decrease in road fatalities that they will eventually be seen in a positive way, just as other measures have become accepted.
> 
> Ca
Click to expand...

did you see the programme on BBC i think, about a year ago, where a fixed camera in the Uk was removed & the no of 'incidents' i.e. fatalities did not change. It was the same with or without the cameras, revenue of course wasn't

Besides, we digress....all i want to know is what appliance is most likely to save my pocket from these infidels, thank you, phil


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## CliveMott

I have a system in my car which prevents me from falling foul of any speed traps......it's called a wife.

C.


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## teemyob

*Gatsco*

Never had a Speeding ticket in the UK, driven over a million miles. Can't see what the problem is?

Wish they would put a camera at the side of my house. Been complaining for years about the speedsters who do anything from 40 - 100+ mph in a 30 limit to no avail. Sadly, just recently a young motorcyclist died after allegedly doing a wheelie at 70mph on his bike.

Maybe now the authorities will do something. A camera would be welcomed.

TM


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## teemyob

*Annoying*

Pity they don't have cameras to catch people on mobile phones.

But when they catch them, they get a ticking off or a simple few points and or fine for something deemed as bad as drink driving.

TM


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## Hobbyfan

There's nothing like a post about speed camera detectors to bring out the 'holier than thou' brigade. It is so easy to accidentally speed because of rapidly changing limits and confusing signs. How many of us have slowed down for a Gatso and suddenly realised that there was no need because we're actually in a 40 mph zone and were only doing about 38 mph?

What amazes me is how brilliant these people are. They can be in strange towns, desperately trying to navigate their way to a strange location and, at the same time as trying not to get lost and keep a careful eye on pedestrians, emerging traffic and other distractions, can also make sure that they never ever accidentally stray over the limit. What superb drivers they are!

Well, I'm human and despite 40 years of driving up to 50,000 miles a year and being an enthusiastic motorist, as opposed to many who seem to be on auto-pilot, I'm afraid that occasionally I find myself driving over the limit. When I go an a journey over new ground I simply slip on my Novus detector and never have to worry about accidentally going through a Gatso. This leaves me free to concentrate on what really makes a good safe driver, which is looking out for danger, pedestrians and other hazards. Constantly checking speedometers to make sure that one is doing 39 mph instead of maybe 44 mph is a distraction that makes no one a safer driver.

Only people with poor driving knowledge and limited experience, consider blind obedience to arbitrary speed limits more important than proper road-craft.


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## teemyob

*hollier*

I certainly ain't holy! :wink:

I have owned very fast cars and some of the German Manufacturers who claim of 155MPH speed limiters, should they be Holy, may need to say a few Hail Mary's.

TM


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Stick to the speed limit no gizzzmos required.
Dave p


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## Hobbyfan

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Stick to the speed limit no gizzzmos required.
> Dave p


Have you actually read any of the posts?


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## SpeedyDux

My list of gripes about the local "safety partnership" that operates the fixed and mobile speed cameras is:

1. They appear to be unaccountable. Who voted for them? 

2. They are more secretive than ever about their operations. I used to subscribe to their email alert about the mobile sites that would be in operation for the next 10 days. They stopped that service so now I have to guess which area they are in. 

3. Their website is hopelessly out of date. I don't want to download the Avon and Somerset Police calendar of Road Safety Operations 2008, thanks. Got a 2010 calendar yet?

4. They recently bought new vans and equipped them with cameras that can operate at night. You won't see them until it's too late.

5. They replaced a lot of the fixed Gatsos with digital Monitron ones that don't flash in the daytime - you won't know you've been nicked until the NIP comes through the letterbox. Oh, and they had to protect a lot of their fixed cameras with CCTV - to stop the ungrateful public repeatedly firebombing them. Not exactly policing by consent.

6. The siting of speed cameras has not always been in the spirit of the legislation - hidden by trees or hedges, at the bottom of hills or on a blind brow, or at locations where there was no history of fatal / serious accidents (these had actually occurred on another road nearby, but that road had less revenue potential).

7. I would rather the money were spent on more real Traffic cops who can respond to situations involving really, really dangerous or reckless driving - I see this more and more nowadays.

I could go on. I agree with those who are sceptical about the hyped-up claims that these speed cameras have actually saved lives. 

BTW, I haven't had a speeding ticket for over 30 years. I don't use a speed camera detector either.


SD


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## DTPCHEMICALS

HF yes I have.

Later today I am going to look in my must have usefull gadgets box.
I have accumulated many over the years.
If i do find the speed detector gadget I will pm philbre for his adress and send it to him. Unless of course Lady p has been in my shed.  

Dave p


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## rayc

*Re: Annoying*



teemyob said:


> Pity they don't have cameras to catch people on mobile phones.
> 
> But when they catch them, they get a ticking off or a simple few points and or fine for something deemed as bad as drink driving.
> 
> TM


The authorities do not deem it to be as bad as drink driving. Dorset Police website states that "The Driver Awareness Scheme will be extended and made available to a wider range of speeding offenders and work is also under way to include mobile phone users".

I could be tempted to say that the reason for the extension of the Driver Awareness Scheme is that the Camera Partnership get the income, as opposed to fines and fixed penalties which go to the Government.
When cameras were first introduced we were told that they would free up traffic officers to concentrate on real offences. What they actually did was disband dedicated traffic departments and reduce numbers. Now we are being told that cameras are loosing money so switching them off will pay for more traffic officers. You cannot believe a word that those who benefit from enforcement say.


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## erneboy

Hf is quite right. None of us wants a speeding ticket and few of us would deliberately exceed a speed limit. However it can be difficult, especially if you are in an area you don't know to be sure you stay within the limit and any assistance is welcome in my opinion.

I have the greatest admiration for those who are perfect, sadly I cannot meet their high standards all the time.

Phil's question is simple, which device is best for his needs. He finds that he too is not perfect and could do with some help, Alan.


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## Rosbotham

That points to a device that displays the speed limit where you are rather than a detector for spotting the evil authorities who seek to enforce the limit though. Any GPS unit will do this, and there are dedicated ones for the application which display the limit in larger format.

I have a speed camera detector in the bottom of a drawer somewhere. As far as I'm aware, that's the only workable way of picking up mobile detectors as well as fixed and yes, they're illegal. They're also a complete waste of time. Mine's in the draw because there are any number of devices which use similar frequencies to radar guns (door openers, pedestrian crossings....as I discovered when driving back from our office near Manchester airport and nearly sh*t myself as one flew over as I was waiting to get out of a junction, passenger jets) so the units beep away incessantly. The technology may have changed since I bought mine, but ultimately Dave P's absolutely right.

Paul


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## Annsman

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't being "holier than thou" in my post. I just didn't like the inference that in his opinion speeding wasn't something he bothered about and he should be above the law with regards to that.

I've certainly gone over the limit and wouldn't claim infalibility, but I do take care about my speed, especially when I'm in a strange area and don't know what hazards are around. It is even more important then, more important than navigation IMHO because you can always just turn round.

I know people who have the same opinion on drink driving, that they know/can drive better when they've had a pint or two. Prehistoric thinking now of course, and not something they do when out with me because they know I'd report them.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Phil,
I have found the unit 
Just pm or e-mail your name and adress and I will post it on to you.

Regards

Dave p


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## quiraing

I am led to believe that it is not illegal to own and use a radar speed detector in the UK. What is illegal is to act on the information received from the detector to avoid being caught speeding. Usual British quirky legal ruling.


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## gj1023

I have a Novus Rider and it is very useful , tells you the speed limit.
Also points out fixed cameras and places where the Xmas party collection vans sit. 

In the old days it was simple ,70, 60 , 30. Plus less traffic.
Nowadays limits are anything they like , a decent duel carriageway, oh we will put 40 on it and make some money. 


It is so confusing half the time , you are trying to get somewhere and you have pedestrians, heavy volumes of traffic and speed limits that constantly change. 

I keep to the limits, to the best of my ability, but it is to easy to get caught out. Oh 32 in a thirty , that cost you so much and 3 points sir. 

So an aid to remind you of the limits , is very useful , lets you concentrate on the road not the speedo 

Gary


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## Rosbotham

gj1023 said:


> I keep to the limits, to the best of my ability, but it is to easy to get caught out. Oh 32 in a thirty , that cost you so much and 3 points sir.


I'm sure Dougie will provide the correct info, but I don't think so. ISTR the ACPO trigger points are speed limit + 10% + 2mph, so for 30mph limit that's 35 to be prosecuted. Add that most speedos over-read by 10%, that's 38mph indicated on speedo.

Agree that a device to tell you speed limit at any point in time is useful though. Not as useful as sticking to 3rd gear in 30 zones though.

Paul


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## gj1023

Well my Fiance was caught doing 32 in a 30 and prosecuted .

Empty road , dry conditions not a built up area with pedestrians . 
Downhill , unmarked van in layby on right. Pathetic 

Now she has a Novus, with a nice lady to remind here.

Gary


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## Rosbotham

ACPO guidelines are here : 35 in a 30 zone.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

COUNTRY	POSSESSION PERMITTED	USE PERMITTED
England YES YES

Spain YES NO 

Germany YES NO

Italy YES YES

Denmark YES NO

The Netherlands	YES NO 

Belgium NO NO

France NO NO

Switzerland NO NO 

Austria NO NO

Luxembourg NO NO 

Sweden NO NO

Turkey NO NO 

Hungary NO NO

Slovakia NO NO 

Latvia YES NO 

Lithuania YES NO

Bulgaria YES YES 

Norway YES YES

Romania YES YES

Albania YES YES 

Poland YES NO


Portugal ?  ?


Dave p
Edit
this does not look as tidy as typed.
Click on download for better chart.

Dave p


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## rayc

Rosbotham said:


> ACPO guidelines are here : 35 in a 30 zone.


They are guidelines only and CC's have the right to prosecute at whatever level above the speed limit they like. The guidelines do not say that you will not be prosecuted under 35, they actually say that at 35 some action *must* be taken against you, even if it is a Police Officer's discretion to only issue a warning.
There are ACPO guidelines for the operation of speed detection equipment. You will get short shrift if you try to use their non conformance as a reason you should not be found guilty in court.

There are numerous posts on the internet from drivers who have been prosecuted under 35mph. It is the new wheeze to get the numbers up at Driver Awareness Courses which are the new Golden Goose. In Dorset the Camera Partnership relies on its profits of the courses to keep going. Dorset Police are currently running a year long 'No Excuse' campaign, in which the enforcement costs of approx £800,000, are budgeted to be wholly met from the attendance and profits of the Driver Awareness scheme.


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## paulmold

Rosbotham said:


> ACPO guidelines are here : 35 in a 30 zone.


The important word here is 'guidelines'. Here in North Wales I believe the trigger point has been reduced to +5% +2 , so in a 40 limit that equates to 44. Between 40 and 44 you will be invited to a speed awareness course, still fined £60 but no points.

I am not entering into the 'holier than thou' debate but find a camera/blackspot locator (not a radar detector) a real help when in unfamiliar areas. As has been said speed limits sometimes seem to have no relevance to the type of road you are on and unless ther are speed limit reminder signs you can easily go over the limit. I prefer to keep my eyes on the road and other road users and not constantly on my speedo.


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## rayc

quiraing said:


> I am led to believe that it is not illegal to own and use a radar speed detector in the UK. What is illegal is to act on the information received from the detector to avoid being caught speeding. Usual British quirky legal ruling.


What is definetly illegal and which could lead to a serious charges and possibly a prison sentence is to use a device which intefers with the speed detection equipment. Such devices as garage door opening transmitters which some drivers have fitted to their cars.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Brother in law recently attended a driver awareness course.
33mph. in 30 limit.
The room was full of over 50`s.

All caught on the way to work.

When he enquired as to the lack of younger element of fast drivers attending he was told that they were probably in bed at the time the offences were commited.
He thought that the answer would have been that they have been prosecuted.
Dave p


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## Hobbyfan

Rosbotham said:


> I have a speed camera detector in the bottom of a drawer somewhere. As far as I'm aware, that's the only workable way of picking up mobile detectors as well as fixed and yes, they're illegal.Paul


They are not illegal. Only units that send out emissions designed to block radar speed guns are illegal. Both GPS and radar detectors are still legal in this country but not in many others. The proposed Road Safety Bill considers banning radar detectors (but not GPS models) but it is currently in discussion and has not been passed.

What is most irritating about forums like this, is those who inject views which are nothing to do with the subject of the thread. The OP asked for advice on detectors. He didn't ask for simplistic, moralistic comments such as 'Why do you need a detector, just obey the speed limit?' Enough of us have given good reasons why we feel more secure having one.

I remember on another forum years ago that whenever anyone asked for advice on satellite TV, you could could guarantee that a few people would post something like: 'Television? Why do you need television when you're on holiday and in the beautiful countryside? Why don't you just relax and read a book?'

Well, if I start a thread on where to buy the best single malt, I want advice on where to buy the best single malt. I do not want a load of people who I believe are sanctimonious and self-righteous, lecturing me on the evils of drink!


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## rayc

paulmold said:


> Rosbotham said:
> 
> 
> 
> ACPO guidelines are here : 35 in a 30 zone.
> 
> 
> 
> Between 40 and 44 you will be invited to a speed awareness course, still fined £60 but no points.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

A bargain. In Dorset the course cost £85 and I believe it is being increased to £110 in the near future. 
The problem as I see it is we have reverted back to a system where the enforcers profit. The Government did the correct thing in changing the system so that the Fixed Penalty income no longer went to the Partnerships and all they have done is found a way round it.

I used to work for a company who have now entered the speed camera manufacturing set. They have just installed the first average speed camera system in the UK on a 800m length of suburban road very close to me. They have paid all the installation costs and the costs of the 6 month trial with the hope that their system will get approval and roll out throughout the country.
Money is at the heart of all automated enforcement, forget all the hype that the best speed camera is the one that is doing its job by influencing driver behaviour and having no transgressors.


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## Rosbotham

Hobbyfan said:


> What is most irritating about forums like this, is those who inject views which are nothing to do with the subject of the thread. The OP asked for advice on detectors. He didn't ask for simplistic, moralistic comments such as 'Why do you need a detector, just obey the speed limit?' Enough of us have given good reasons why we feel more secure having one.


WTF, I do hope that wasn't aimed at me. _Mea culpa_, I was wrong about the legality, but I thought I was pretty clear that in the case of GPS-based units they'll either over-report mobile locations (i.e. anywhere they might be) or alternatively not report any mobile ones, and in the case of radar-detection based units are useless as virtually everything triggers them. As such there isn't an easy answer for the OP other than being careful with limits. No lecture, no morals, just reality.


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## grizzlyj

Driver awareness is an odd name for a course combining speeders with phone users. A phone user certainly is not as fully aware of their surroundings as someone who has drifted to 33mph.

The whole crux of the thing to me is how "speed" is deemed to be universally dangerous. The way some people talk they would spontainiously explode at 75mph, but 69 and too small a gap to the car infront while on the phone, adjusting the Ipod and A/C is fine  Another gizmo on the dash is a bad thing. There used to be a camera detector for bikes that was all hidden apart from a big red light on the dash which may be because of a speed limit or a camera location but just meant slow down. Digital speedos on cars are a "good thing" as they are easier to read, or at least tell the difference between 69 and 70 from the corner of your eye. Still open to inaccuracies of course!

I've had 3 points twice. The last time was on test drive of a sporty soft top, 81mph on a clear dry summers day, 3 lane dual carraigeway, no traffic or junctions so IMHO not at all dangerous. Just the cameraman on a bridge with the sun behind him!

My Dad nearly always edges toward 40mph in the 30 limits round him and makes me cringe. He hasn't had an accident for years, so won't be told.

Inappropriate speed is harder to police but would be a better (or should be the only?) aim from a safety point of view.

The average speed cameras on the A14 near Cambridge/Huntingdon are looking for Government funding to be extended. This is a nightmare piece of road already along the existing camera stretch, with frequent accidents and closures.

http://www.cambridgefirst.co.uk/news/more_life_saving_speed_cameras_for_a14_at_cambridge_1_683328

A letter from the Highways agency in 2007 suggests the original A14 camera implementation was as much to smooth traffic flow

3rd paragraph second page

http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/documents/CRS_538831.pdf

The road is in urgent need of entirely rebuilding to motorway status, removing the large number of small and short slipways making joining the continuous bunched traffic flow often a fatal experience. Cameras to smooth the flow are cheaper, but don't allow gaps for traffic to pull on perhaps adding to the danger.

Jason


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## gj1023

These type of thread turns up every couple of months and the same thing happens. 

You get a few blase about it and you get a few holier than though. 

Then the majority who either want an answer to thread or think that speeding laws are unfair. As the majority are just normal folk who occasionally make the mistake of going over a bit and get punished.
Or feel that there by the grace of god go I and consider themselves lucky they have not been punished yet.

As the Police use to say and said above inappropriate speed is the problem , in respect of accidents, Not doing 33 in a thirty,

Motorist are a cash cow to milked in every and anyway possible 

Gary


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## DTPCHEMICALS

In reply to HF.
Of course the simple answer to the OP would have been for the first member to post the obvious.
Just google speed camera detectors.

This same action would probably apply to quite a few questions asked on any subject.

Then where would the entertainment come in. :wink: 

Dave p


I have made an offer to the OP to supply his details so that I can send him my unused unit.
That should have killed the thread one would have thought.
Lets not get back into bickering.


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## duxdeluxe

Having read through the 6 pages of argument and counter argument about speeding, I'll dare to answer the original question which is a valid one. Googling speed camera detectors won't help much.

First thing to remember is that most "speed traps" are staffed by people using lasers not radars. You can get a laser detector but believe me, they are useless. The reason? it only takes 0.3 second to lock on and record your speed. Not even Michael Schumacher has reactions that good to bring the speed down. Any and all speed camera detectors, whether laser or radar or both are not worth a centime....

However, I use a Pogo alert, which is one of a number of products on the market which uses a database of fixed and mobile sites including spec at roadworks and is regularly updated. It works for me in the following ways:

1) A large digital readout of my actual speed, which is handy.
2) reminder if approaching a gatso/truvelo/mobile laser/whatever site. Unlike some people on here I will own up to being human and I do stray over the limit at times, even though i regard myself as a careful driver who sticks to limits.
3) Warnings of accident blackspots and also SCHOOL ZONES where the speed limit is invariably still 30 but should be 20 IMHO
4) It'll give your average speed between two specs cameras when in a specs zone, which is really handy when some rep in his Audi is right up my backside. Sticking to the limit..... and you'll be 20 seconds late for your telephone sanitiser's regional conference, mate
5) I threw the laser detector back into the box. It didn't stop me getting a ticket on the A14 a few years ago, merely informed me that I had been "lasered" - a subsequent visit to Cambridge Constabulary resulted in a very informative police sergeant showing me exactly how long it took to catch me (at 950 metres away..... type approved to 1000m before you ask)

It's a nice bit of kit. If I need a reminder of the speed limit then I'll look at the comand system in the Merc and it's readout shows the current limit. Otherwise, use the mark one eyeball and watch the lampost separation and any repeater signs.

I don't condone speeding and don't speed myself (not since the ticket in 2007) but do own up to human failings.

Advice to the OP: have a look at the various database GPS systems such as pogo or others and consider buying one. You have to weigh up the costs against perceived usefulness. I use one because I drive about 35K a year. The TomTom in the Van also shows camera locations but despite paying for updates, it never seems to be up to date, unlike the pogo system. Hope that helps


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## Scolds

I wanted to add that I use http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/ it is an annual subscription and I then download the database for my TomTom version. I have disabled the TomTom built in warnings as their data is very quickly out of date.

I have 2 different warnings set up, 1 is for those fixed cameras that are going to be there and the other sound warns me when I am approaching a possible mobile camera spot.

So far it works OK and I think it is a good solution and I only have one device on my dash. You can adjust the distance from the camera that the warning fires off.

You can also download the database for Europe if you have those maps on your TomTom or any other device as they have a long list of devices they cover.

One last thought is I think that we are lucky in the UK that the fixed cameras are yellow, in Germany they are grey and hidden behind bushes etc.

Hope this helps, and I do speed at times in the car and on the motorbike but only when I feel it is safe to do so.

I am new to this forum and initially thought it a strange thread as all the Motorhomes I have followed in the past are going too slow


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## grizzlyj

Prior to fitting an intercooler my camper would really struggle to reach the limit let alone break it. A 30 limit would usually have a junction/red light/parked car before I'd got into 8th and had to slow down again, and that same 8th on the flat with a tail wind would just see me to 50 

You could google anti reflective coatings though, making the laser never actually get back to the speed gun 

The surveying instrument I used at work would measure distances to most objects (without a reflective target) to +/- 5mm over 500m away and wasn't one of the best at it. It didn't work too well on concrete though, so perhaps a thin layer of concrete on the front and rear of the car?

Jason


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## DTPCHEMICALS

http://www.speedcameradefence.com/

An Irish supplier.

.............
*Are Speed Camera Detectors to be outlawed in the Governments proposed Road Safety Bill?*
It is currently 100% legal (July 2010) to use a speed camera detector in the UK to warn of all speed camera locations - fixed and mobile. Legislation implemented on the 27th January 1998 made the detection of speed cameras a lawful activity.

More recently the Government, through the Road Safety Bill, is reviewing the use of speed camera detectors and their technologies in the UK. The Road Safety Bill looks to ban speed camera jammers and detectors.

The Government believes that devices which interfere with or detect the proper functioning of such cameras have only one purpose: to tell drivers when they can break speed limits and get away with it. This is unacceptable. It prevents the police from carrying out their duties, and is a danger to other law-abiding road users.

The Government will not be prohibiting those devices that rely on Global Positioning System (GPS) technology to warn drivers of published camera sites or posted speed limits, as these compliment the Government's policy to ensure that camera sites are visible and conspicuous to drivers, and so help deter excessive and inappropriate speeds on the roads."

In anticipation of a change in the law some retailers (and manufacturers) are withdrawing radar and laser detectors from their product range. However, it is possible to purchase a GPS based detection system (which will remain legal) which includes a removable radar/laser detection module. If the law changes you can simply remove the module and therefore disable the radar/laser function thus making legal your speed camera detector to use in the UK. Speed camera detectors can be viewed and purchase at the online retailer ActiveGPS.co.uk

Dave p


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## peribro

Unlike some it would seem who have posted on this thread, I do exceed the speed limit. Very seldom and not intentionally in 20mph, 30mph and 40mph limits but quite often on dual carriageways and motorways if the traffic conditions are appropriate. Sometimes by no more than 5mph or so over the limit but at other times by more than that - I do not exceed 100mph but will frequently go at 85 mph to 90mph on a quiet motorway in good weather conditions - and often in a "convoy" of other cars doing the same speed.

That's the confessional bit out of the way and to try to minimise my chances of being caught, I have a Road Angel and a radar detector. The former is very good and I find the advance warning of mobile sites particularly useful. I also find the large digital speed display invaluable nothwithstanding that I might be knowingly exceeding the permitted limit. The radar detector, whilst still legal, has nothing much to offer that the Road Angel (and other GPS devices) cannot do. They both have laser detectors that are pretty useless and as has already been said, by the time it alerts you (if it does) then it is too late. I have used the radar detector to "map" which of the overhead cameras on the M25 and M42 are live as most are dummies but other than that, I seldom switch it on now. I also have a TomTom with speed camera locations loaded on to it but as that takes its data from Road Angel, I tend to switch the volume off in order to reduce the cacophony of warning gongs and beeps that would otherwise occur whenever approaching a camera. 

However what the detectors are of course no good at all at, is alerting you to the police car (often unmarked) that has managed to follow you - and I know by painful experience that they can be very good at getting behind you without being noticed!


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## philbre

*please do!*



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> HF yes I have.
> 
> Later today I am going to look in my must have usefull gadgets box.
> I have accumulated many over the years.
> If i do find the speed detector gadget I will pm philbre for his adress and send it to him. Unless of course Lady p has been in my shed.
> 
> Dave p


I look forward to receiving it!

Phil


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Wrapped, adressed and ready for the post office in the morning.
Dave p


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## pippin

_Wrapped, adressed and ready for the post office in the morning. _

Dave, where are you sending yourself?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Any where warm and sunny. I hate this drab grey time of year.
One has to be carefull walking down the lawn. Tons of leaves and camouflaged dog poo from seven dogs.

Dave p :lol:


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## erneboy

Still shorts and tee shirts here at Vinaros Dave. Come on over and I will buy you a beer, Alan.


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## billym

Quote Hobbyfan........................

"Enough of us have given good reasons why we feel more secure having one.............."

I would like to say that I would feel more secure if you didn't speed.


and......

Why is it difficult to keep to the speed limit ? Answer . It isn't. Those who do so do it by choice and all those excuses about being in an unknown place blah blah blah are just rubbish. 

There is far too much reliance on technology these days. Think for yourself . ( it's easy if you try )


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## Hobbyfan

billym said:


> I would like to say that I would feel more secure if you didn't speed.


Oh God, here we go again, another self righteous absolutely perfect driver who has never accidentally strayed over the limit. Well, bully for you, you wonderful person. I wish that I could be a clever as you. Keep up the good work.

The problem is of course that you'll be the one with a stream of frustrated drivers behind you as you pootle along doing a few miles under the limit, totally selfishly oblivious to the other drivers who have work to do, or clients and patients to see. But you don't care do?

Once again, this thread is about advice on speed camera detectors. It's not about holier-than-thou cardigan-wearing Rover 214 drivers (isn't it always them!) bragging about how they drive everywhere at 26 mph.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

quote HF
Once again, this thread is about advice on speed camera detectors. It's not about holier-than-thou cardigan-wearing Rover 214 drivers (isn't it always them!) *bragging about how they drive everywhere at 26 mph.*

May I respectfully point out that the speed limits are MAXIMUM..
Drivers should drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions, and that they are comfortable with.

Dave p


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## rayc

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> May I respectfully point out that the speed limits are MAXIMUM..
> Drivers should drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions, and that they are comfortable with.
> 
> Dave p


I get your point but if drivers were to drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions and which they were comfortable with then they would invariably be exceeding the speed limit. Part of the problem is the lowereing of speed limits on roads that have had 40mph limits for decades.


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## erneboy

Dave, you are quite right. No one is asking slow drivers to speed up. We are just saying that they can and often do cause hold ups. I agree entirely with Hf here, it seems to me that when these people are causing hold ups either they just don't realise what they are doing or the are doing it on purpose to slow everyone else down.

As Hf says the OP was a simple question and not an invitation for all those who think they think they never exceed the speed limit to lecture those of us who are honest enough to admit that we sometimes find that we do, Alan.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

The road on which I live was a trunk road. 60mph.Half a mile long and dead straight with a slight hill halfway along it, At the southerly end is a roundabout.
During the first ten years i lived here fourteen people were killed within 200 yards either sid of my drive. Some other victims may have died in hospital that we never here about.
We then saw a new invention some ten years ago, street lights.
The road was reclasified to 30mph.
Double white lines
Dirty great big 30 signs at each end of the road.
Four red tarmac squares with white 30 mph.
Two signs Slow Vehicles Turning.
A regular mobile speed camera van.
Recent surveys showed the average speed along the road to be 53mph.
If visual technology does not work God help pedestrians trying to cross the road.
When I go to Louth this morning the first 8 miles or so will be at the posted 50mph part single part dual carriageway. I will probably not see more than half a dozen other vehicles. When I get to Gainsborough the by pass is restricted to 60 mph.
The reasons for these limits is the historical number of incidents in the past. The majority being in the going to - from work times of day.
I will at times exceed the speed limit, I know the punishments but I do not get angry at slower moving vehicles. Its not like being stood in a queue waiting to pass an incident where speed has been involved.
Dave p


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## SpeedyDux

rayc said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I respectfully point out that the speed limits are MAXIMUM..
> Drivers should drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions, and that they are comfortable with.
> 
> Dave p
> 
> 
> 
> I get your point but if drivers were to drive at a speed that is suitable for the road and conditions and which they were comfortable with then they would invariably be exceeding the speed limit. Part of the problem is the lowereing of speed limits on roads that have had 40mph limits for decades.
Click to expand...

There has been a trend for some notoriously anti-car Local Authorities to systematically reduce speed limits on roads that have a good safety record. They also deliberately put traffic lights on roundabouts and choke points on roads leading to the city centre, specifically to cause congestion and deter motorists. This adds unnecessarily to journey times and actually causes more air pollution and Co2 emissions. Now they want to reduce the urban speed limit to a blanket 20 mph. In the case of the M32 they are proposing to de-trunk it and put a 40 mph limit along the whole lenght. :evil: :evil: :evil:

No wonder there are so many drivers who have lost their respect for speed limits, because they are aware that the Authority's agenda in many cases is not road safety but a war on motorists.

SD


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## billym

Hobbyfan said:


> billym said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to say that I would feel more secure if you didn't speed.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God, here we go again, another self righteous absolutely perfect driver who has never accidentally strayed over the limit. Well, bully for you, you wonderful person. I wish that I could be a clever as you. Keep up the good work.
> 
> The problem is of course that you'll be the one with a stream of frustrated drivers behind you as you pootle along doing a few miles under the limit, totally selfishly oblivious to the other drivers who have work to do, or clients and patients to see. But you don't care do?
> 
> Once again, this thread is about advice on speed camera detectors. It's not about holier-than-thou cardigan-wearing Rover 214 drivers (isn't it always them!) bragging about how they drive everywhere at 26 mph.
Click to expand...

Well not really. I was just seeing how easy it was to wind you up with a different opinion. EASY !


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## Hobbyfan

billym said:


> Well not really. I was just seeing how easy it was to wind you up with a different opinion. EASY !


Now I understand. As well as loving to cause frustration by driving everywhere at 26 mph, you also enjoy deliberately stirring things up just for the fun of it. You seem to be a really nice person.

Or could it be, that having read some of the reaction to your opinions, you realise how foolish you've been and are now trying to divert attention by giving it a whole new motive?

Either way, you don't come out well! :roll:


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## locovan

Hobbbyfan are you sure your not a woman --always right and always have to have the last word. :wink: 

And love winding the men up

I recognize it in you as IM a woman too :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## erneboy

Regression to the mean neatly explains how safety measures can seem to reduce accidents while not actually doing so.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/rttm.html

Statistics certainly can be damned lies and are often cited as proof that safety measures are effective

Of course inappropriate speed does cause accidents but so does bad driving and the failure to concentrate.

If 10% of accidents are caused by speeding drivers then 90% are caused by drivers who are not speeding and I don't hear a clamour to have them prosecuted, Alan.


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## Hobbyfan

locovan said:


> Hobbbyfan are you sure your not a woman --always right and always have to have the last word. :wink:


Not true, as there have been many occasions when I've pulled from a thread and said so because there was no more to be said. But come on! Here's a guy who claims that he only posted to deliberately wind up another member. Don't you think that that is deserving of a response? I do!


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## billym

quote Hobbyfan

.........
Either way, you don't come out well! Rolling Eyes


In your opinion .


and believe me, my opinion won't be swayed by a few posts on here !


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## locovan

Hobbyfan said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hobbbyfan are you sure your not a woman --always right and always have to have the last word. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, as there have been many occasions when I've pulled from a thread and said so because there was no more to be said. But come on! Here's a guy who claims that he only posted to deliberately wind up another member. Don't you think that that is deserving of a response? I do!
Click to expand...

Darling I think he was jesting as I was--look lots of :lol: :lol: :lol: and :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Hobbyfan

locovan said:


> Darling I think he was jesting as I was--look lots of :lol: :lol: :lol: and :wink: :wink: :wink:


Yes, I know yours was a bit tongue-in-cheek Mavis. I can assure you though that Billym's wasn't. He appears to have entered this thread simply to cause aggravation and I'll let others judge for themselves the sort of person who does that.

I've just had a skim through this thread. Up until Billym started his trouble-making and had a go at me I'd posted four times. DTM Dave had posted ten times and RayC had posted seven times.

I'm not criticising the number of posts that anyone's made by the way and there are others apart from those I've mentioned who have posted more times than I have. But because I like to defend a stance I seem to attract the kind of remarks about 'Always being right' etc. Well, don't the others who are arguing that detectors aren't necessary, think that they are right? Of course they do!

I and others will continue to argue our case as long as people like Billym continue posting the same self-righteous claims that have already been said six times and really don't need repeating yet again. I mean what was the point of his post?

To repeat: The OP wants advice on detectors, not self-righteous claptrap from goody-two-shoes people who are so clever that they never make a mistake. But, still they keep coming!


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## DTPCHEMICALS

*HF I wonder how many motorists get stuck behind your MH and curse you.*
Phil must be laughing his socks off. I and a few others no doubt are

He has had the advice and is awaiting a free speed detector.

Personaly of the two Hobbyfans that I have seen on this site

I liked the HF with bit of wit. :wink:

Dave p

EDIT 
I didn`t have much to do yesterday. :lol: 
And HF has made 8 posts.


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## Hobbyfan

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> *HF I wonder how many motorists get stuck behind your MH and curse you.*Dave
> EDIT And HF has made 8 posts.


Oops indeed! I'd made four posts up to Billym having his pop, which is what I wrote. The other counts were also up to the same point. Please read it again. You can apologise if you like when you've read it properly. And what are people laughing their socks off about, you've got me there? The people mainly being laughed at seem to be the ones who self-importantly tell us what wonderful drivers they!

No one curses because they're stuck behind me. I tend to drive faster than many private cars if it's safe to do do. I find that the biggest problem is the codgers pottering along at 40 mph in a 60 mph area. And codgers by the way doesn't mean old! Some drivers seem to be codgers when they're 40. They're the ones who go on forums moaning about people who drive faster than them!

What I'm not sure about is the purpose of your post, which just seems to be having a rather nasty dig. That's not like you normally.


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