# Club disposal or not



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

This is a copy of an email I have sent to the CC.today, will post all replies as received.

Hello.
After reading an article on www.motorhome facts.com regarding motorcaravans and having the facility to pull into a club site and empty grey water, top up with fresh water and also empty their chemical toilet. For a nominal fee and allowing up to 2 hours for such. Apparently this facility is available to Camping and Caravanning Club members at their sites.
Well as we are supposed to be the Favourite club, surely we must allow our members the same at our sites. If not what good reason have you for refusing such a request.
This question and your reply may be posted on the aforementioned web site.

Regards from a loyal member

cabby


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Cabby they have already decided not to allow this, they claim it would encourage wildcamping. Think it was about 2 years ago.

Olley


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Does this mean that I will have to bombard the MD with mail.they have had 2 years then to re-evaluate the situation. Just remind me who the patron is now.

cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I know what we need, maybe Peter from Swift can send them a letter asking them to consider the idea again.Then get a few other manufacturers to nudge them.

cabby


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

I think it is about time the Caravan Club improved it's attitude to us Motorhomers.

On CC sites there are a lot more motorhomes now yet we are treated like 2nd class citizens by some.

They could do more for us: apart from dumping/filling up, they could, where they have late arrival areas have cheaper stop over spots for those that do not want a full blown pitch.

In fact when they are improving their sites they could think of our touring needs!!! Often sites are fully booked unless you book months in advance which means if you want to travel on the spur of the moment you have no chance. They don't like us because we only stay a couple of nights rather than a whole week or two.

So doing something like the aires but incorporated into their sites but making it cheaper than their current pitch prices would really go along way to improving things for us motorhomers.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

That is a valid point, it makes sense, but this is the UK.not France.

cabby


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## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi,
as far as I'm aware if you turn up late and stay in the late arrivals area you don't pay the pitch fee just the per person fee  and sometimes there is a hookup available

We stayed at Denham (members only) site last week - arrived at 5.05pm - office just closing - "please can you pay in the morning we open at 9AM"  (tough if you wanted an early start) - we should have arrived a few minutes later and stayed in the overnight area to save a few pounds :lol: 

We had booked online a month or so ago but there were a couple of empty pitches even on the Friday night

Steve


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2008)

An excerpt from another post of mine earlier today. reporting conversations with the two clubs at the NEC this morning.

"_BTW On the subject of the Caravan Club, in response to a direct question, No they did not allow MH's to pay quick visit to their sites to replenish water, empty toilet etc. Without paying the full night fee. The chap also confidently told me that the C & CC had now stopped allowing it too.

A quick check on the C & CC stand confirmed that was a downright lie. They did indeed offer just such a service for a nominal fee and allowed you a couple of hours rest in which to do it.

This would seem to confirm your suspicion of prejudice against MHers by the CC. _

Tony

Tony


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

homenaway said:


> We had booked online a month or so ago but there were a couple of empty pitches even on the Friday night
> Steve


Can't criticise them for that Steve.

I was miffed by the same thing and asked if they were "no shows", but apparently they always try to keep a couple of free pitches in case someone has a medical or other emergency, or a serious breakdown, and needs to stay on for an extra night or two. If every pitch was booked solid this would cause real problems, so I'd have to accept this is a sensible precaution.

As for the other comments by yourself and others I'm inclined to agree that a gentle toe up the rear end would do them no harm.

Cheers


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## skratt (May 1, 2005)

Yet another case of silly British " no you can't " attitude. 

Will we ever learn from our European neighbors and realise that the restrictions and rules that we put in place will only lead to a lack of respect and rebellious behavior.

Do they have silly rules in France ???? NO ! 
Is there a problem with wild campers ? NO !
Is there a problem with alcohol fueled violence NO !
Do they have a generation of young people who have lost all respect for the society they live in ? NO !

DO they have respect for the publics' rights to decide how to behave without having some petty minded burocrat telling them what to do ? YES !

So come on you rule makers out there ..... relax a bit, chill out.... and you just might find you get more respect and polite behaivior in the long run.



:wink:


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2008)

skratt said:


> Yet another case of silly British " no you can't " attitude.
> 
> Will we ever learn from our European neighbors and realise that the restrictions and rules that we put in place will only lead to a lack of respect and rebellious behavior.
> 
> ...


Have you ever been in Paris when there has been a demonstration by students? - I have and it's not pretty.


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## skratt (May 1, 2005)

at least they question the state of they're country with a view to sorting the problems.
The majority of young ( and most old ) people in this country are apathetic beyond belief...

I lived in Paris for 4 years and yes ... I have seen it .... but I asked why and learnt and understood .... here we just believe what we read in the sun newspaper.


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

olley said:


> Hi Cabby they have already decided not to allow this, they claim it would encourage wildcamping. Think it was about 2 years ago.
> 
> Olley


I think it would be a useful facility for users of CLs. To be able to fill your tanks and empty your waste without carrying it across muddy fields is great. And you can catch up with your washing in the laundry. What about if you're visiting friends who are a bit sensitive about emptying your loo in their house? There are lots of situations apart from wild camping when it would be useful.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

olley said:


> Hi Cabby they have already decided not to allow this, they claim it would encourage wildcamping. Think it was about 2 years ago.
> 
> Olley


It tickles me when you turn up fot the night at 5pm without booking, they just don't like it. Then just slip into the conversation that you normally wild camp, but are only here because you need water etc.

I am sure this is why they allow people to book all of their sites for the year when the website opens each december. They just like that kind of regimented organised mentality.


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

(Prepares to keep head down....) I think that the CCC topup/emptying facility should be FREE to members-we pay enough already and it doesnt really create much more work for site staff. And yes, the CC should do the same! :wink:


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

We are members of both clubs, but we rarely use the club sites. We joined for the 5 van sites, and for the local groups running rallies.

I think the club is really several clubs within one, with each part catering for a different set of requirements.

The sites, and their regular users, are happy with eachother.

I rarely use club sites, so I don't expect the club sites to cater for my requirements, as an infrequent customer. That may be part of their reasoning for not wanting motorhomes calling to use the service points.

We find that the 5 van network best fulfills our service point needs.

On a normal weekend away (rally or wild camp), we can take enough water with us, and we can take the toilet back home to empty. We only need a service point if we're away for longer. By definition, those longer stays must involve days that aren't weekends. That usually means that the 5 van sites have room, and we simply drop into one of those for an odd night.

Arguably, we are using a disproportionate share of the facilities at these 5 van sites, since we pay for one night, yet take 2-3 days water, and dump 2-3 days waste. However, the owners we've spoken to are happy with the arrangement, as mid-week business is just extra income.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

We would certainly welcome a CC dump and service facility. 

We don't wildcamp but, between trips, leave our van at a farm some way from home. We can't service it at home. It would mean that, returning from a trip to Europe, we could leave leave the loo functioning and the water and waste filled and then empty and clean it it when we get to our local CC site which is 5 minutes from the farm.

At the moment we have to empty and clean everything at the last French aire we stop at and use motorway services on the way home.


G


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Have today received this email from the friendly club, Camping Caravan Club.

Thank you for your e mail.

You are correct in that some Club sites offer the facility of motorhome stop offs.

These sites are those that have dedicated motorhome service points. The full facilities of the 
site may be used for three hours for £5.25, without booking a pitch for an overnight stay.

A list of sites with this facility is attached.

Dingwall Bala Barnard Castle Blackmore Canterbury Bodmin 
Glencoe Cardigan Bay Bellingham	Cannock Chase Chertsey California Cross 
Jedburgh Rhandirmwyn Boroughbridge Delamere Forest	Crowborough Cheddar 
Milarrochy Bay Clitheroe Ebury Hill Folkestone Damage Barton 
Moffat Derwentwater Kingsbury Water Park Hertford Devizes 
Oban Dunstan Hill Leek Norman’s Bay Lydford
Scone Haltwhistle St Neots Lynton 
Speyside Kendal	Sandringham Minehead 
Keswick Teversal Moreton 
Ravenglass Thetford Forest Salisbury 
Scarborough West Runton Sennen Cove 
Slingsby Wolverley Slapton Sands
Troutbeck Tregurrian 
Windermere Umberleigh
Veryan 

cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I have now received a reply from the Caravan Club.
Thank you for your e-mail regarding the above.

At present It is not Club policy to allow members, other than those actually staying on site, to use the facilities provided. The facilities are built to cater for the number of outfits for which the site is designed to accommodate and it is felt that if these were to be open to people not staying on site then the site could be overwhelmed to the obvious detriment of the visitors who have paid the site fees.

Yours sincerely

Lorraine Pollard
Sites Operations Administration


cabby


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

This was my reply.

Dear Lorraine Pollard

Thank you for such a prompt reply to my email enquiry.
However I am prompted to ask why other clubs can manage to do this at sites that have a Motorhome service point. But not, what I call “ THE PREMIER CLUB”.
Maybe a survey of the club members may be necessary before the next AGM, to determine whether the Club is serving all of its members to its best ability. We do seem to be lagging behind European outlooks.
Regards

Now this is where we need the help from companies like Swift.

cabby


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

My only reservation would be the demonstrable fact that some motorhomers are dirty, irresponsible and downright self-centred. Only a very small minority I'm sure, but enough to make an impact and spoil things for the rest of us.

I'm referring to those who dump grey, and sometimes even black waste just about anywhere they can get away with it, and who have little regard for others around them with their noisy generators, loud gatherings late into the night etc..

There was an article recently in one of the magazines about those who simply open their grey waste taps on the pitch just before they drive off, and spray the last gallon or two down the road as they exit a site. The warden at Minehead (a couple of weeks ago) said he had seen four members doing this in the past week, and was at a loss to understand their mentality.

At least if they are staying on the site the wardens have their details and can report them if they are observed. If there was a drop-in facility I wonder how long it would be before the dumping station would be filthy, since this type of person would have no thought for anyone but themselves and would be unlikely to swish the hose around and clean up any mess they had made.

Several people here have mentioned Aires in this context, but I wouldn't go within yards of some I've visited without wellies and rubber gloves. I even saw a German (no national significance, it just happened that way) empty his black waste into the drain under the fresh water tap. He then walked back to his very large and expensive van and left it with bits of toilet paper and other solid objects trapped in the steel mesh over the drain, and not even an attempt to swill it away with the hose.

There's no answer to that level of depravity.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

cabby said:


> I have now received a reply from the Caravan Club.
> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the above.
> 
> At present It is not Club policy to allow members, other than those actually staying on site, to use the facilities provided. The facilities are built to cater for the number of outfits for which the site is designed to accommodate and it is felt that if these were to be open to people not staying on site then the site could be overwhelmed to the obvious detriment of the visitors who have paid the site fees.
> ...


What a load of utter crap. Pathetic. About sums up the attitude of the CC.


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## Pammy (Jun 2, 2005)

We have been on a few Caravan Club sites in the last couple of months, Braemar, Cambridge, Abbey Wood and most of the units on these sites were motorhomes. Hardly any caravans. They are probably laid up for winter. If it wasn't for motorhomers using their sites it wouldn't be very profitable keeping open over winter. We only use CC sites in the winter, as we usually go on CCC temporary holiday sites and rallies as they are much cheaper and as we have a solar panel we are totally self sufficient.

Pammy


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## Mandi (Jan 10, 2008)

Waleem said:


> (Prepares to keep head down....) I think that the CCC topup/emptying facility should be FREE to members-we pay enough already and it doesnt really create much more work for site staff. And yes, the CC should do the same! :wink:


I totally agree. I am sure I read that the "nominal" fee is £5. I personally don't think that is nominal.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"I am sure this is why they allow people to book all of their sites for the year when the website opens each december. They just like that kind of regimented organised mentality."

You got it. I do have this love/ hate relationship with the CC:

Love:
1) CL network
2) The consistent standards of CC sites.
3) The attitude when I arrive when it was feasible to book online.

Hate:
1) Pitch unavailability at weekends checking in advance.
2) The attitude when you turn up on spec.
3) The pettyness and small-mindedness of some CC wardens.

The bottom line is that it is not in their commercial interest to cater for independent, flexible, travellers such as motorhomers. Much better to cater for timid OAP caravanners grateful for a sanctuary in foreign lands a few miles from home.

Dave


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

As a side issue:

You want to stop on a site for the night. It is a popular site at the weekend. (say York), no point even ringing the booking office. You know however there will probably be several no-shows. 

At what time will they release the no-show pitches to someone who turns up out of the blue last thing?

( I suspect an official enquirey would be a waste of time and the easy option would be for the warden to turn you away at 6pm with a grunt of 'full')


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> At present It is not Club policy to allow members, other than those actually staying on site, to use the facilities provided. The facilities are built to cater for the number of outfits for which the site is designed to accommodate and it is felt that if these were to be open to people not staying on site then the site could be overwhelmed to the obvious detriment of the visitors who have paid the site fees.


Oh really !!

" Overwhelmed" I think not. At most there would be 2 or 3 people wanting to use the dump per day and they are unlikely to turn up at busy times. Given that the dumps at even the most popular sites seems to stand idle for much of the day I'm sure this would be no problem.

The " nominal" charge of £5 as applied by the C&CC is quite sufficient to cover the cost of any water or drainage charges so they would be making a profit on casual visitors.

If they are so concerned about mess and misuse then limit those who use the facilities in this way to Club members. That way they have a registration number on the database and can write them a stiff letter if the need arises. All casual users would have to report to Reception anyway to pay their fee so a record could be kept easily enough.

" the facilities are built to cater for the number of outfits for which the site is designed to accommodate " How many of the bigger sites have 2 or more dump points for MHs ? This statement is patently not true.

What about a trial year CC ? If it turns out to be a failure and the facilities are overwhelmed then stop it or only allow it on those sites which can cope.

G (ggrrrr)


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> Oh really !!
> 
> " Overwhelmed" I think not. At most there would be 2 or 3 people wanting to use the dump per day and they are unlikely to turn up at busy times. Given that the dumps at even the most popular sites seems to stand idle for much of the day I'm sure this would be no problem.
> 
> ...


A lot of good sense here Grrrrrizzly!

I think limiting the proposed facility to club members is a must - for the reasons you and I have both highlighted.

If there is likely to be a genuine problem of inconvenience to residents on the site ( :?: ), visiting "dumpers" could easily be restricted to certain times of the day. For example, if the facilities *really are* heavily used between (say) 9.00 and 11.00am when residents are getting ready to leave, then simply don't allow visitors at that time.

I can't see a big problem if those in control were willing to give it a try - but I bet it won't happen!!

Cheers


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I think that all members of this site should email the club/clubs they belong to and protest at their attitude.
As already said I enjoy the CL's which is why I am a member.Maybe the club should ask the CL owners if they would accept FEE OF £2 to just use the service points.Or maybe we should.

cabby


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Being a member of said club and not doing any wild camping we have quite a bit of experience with motorhome service points :wink: 

Thoroughly agree with the idea of limiting usage to non-overnighters to times when others may want to use them. 9am - 11 am to enable a quick getaway for overnighters seems sensible. However, I don't remember ever being held up by anyone else either to offload or take on water on arrival. Surely there are no extra costs in allowing a MH to use the vacant facilities, but perhaps I am mistaken.

As an aside (although not off topic :wink: ) we need to be in north Yorkshire Thursday next week. Didn't even try for York campsite for the Thursday and Friday nights, so we are going on Tuesday/Wed nights. Bet there will be no-shows though on the nights we really wanted    

Sue


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