# New Ferry route to Bilbao



## thieawin

Following on from PO withdrawing their 36 hour sailing Portsmouth Bilbao at end 2010 Brittany Ferries have just made the following announcement

_From next spring the Cap Finistère will make two crossings per week to the Spanish city of Bilbao from Portsmouth. Crossings will depart every Sunday (via Roscoff) and Friday, returning Tuesday and Saturday. Not only that, but the crossing time will be just 24 hours - faster than it has ever been done before.
This new service will be in addition to the twice weekly sailings from Portsmouth to Santander and weekly crossing from Plymouth to Santander, giving the option of five departures per week to northern Spain._

That is the most crossings ever from UK to Northern Spain. As I go south to Barcelona I will be tempted to go Bilbao and save an hour on the drive time to/fromSantander

NB the route timetable is not on the web site for booking yet

PS and remember for dog lovers the CF has 4 dog cabins!


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## TDG

thieawin said:


> Following on from PO withdrawing their 36 hour sailing Portsmouth Bilbao at end 2010 Brittany Ferries have just made the following announcement ..........


Ok but can you get a mortgage :?: :roll: :lol:


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## lucy2

TDG said:


> thieawin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following on from PO withdrawing their 36 hour sailing Portsmouth Bilbao at end 2010 Brittany Ferries have just made the following announcement ..........
> 
> 
> 
> Ok but can you get a mortgage :?: :roll: :lol:
Click to expand...

 I have just priced up at xmas/new year portsmouth / santander return with 
6 mtr motorhome £ 767.00 was going to book but Hbos would not give me mortgage to pay for the crossing, never mind dover / calais instead!!


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## sweetie

Was on there website earlier this week. 

I put in travel out around the 10th dec return mid feb 8m m/h 2 adults in double cabin and it was around £865.    :lol: :lol: 

They do list reclining seats but did not check how much cheaper it came out.


Steve


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## thieawin

If you join their property owners abroad club you get substantial discounts. On one journey you can save more than the annual membership. I do four or more trips to Barcelona every year with either car or motorhome.

I have to have a four hour sail and 5 hour drive to get to Portsmouth, 7 to Folkestone. Its 7.5 hours from Santander and 6.5 from Bilbao to my destination. If I go to St Malo or Caen Ouistreham its nearer 16 and if I go to Calais its 24 hours drive. By using BF to Northern Spain I save fuel, miles, time, energy and road tolls. I arrive at my detination and home on return not needing 48 hours to recuperate. If I am in the car I save a hotel night each way.

I know a lot of you do have to watch the pennies. I may be more fortunate than most but I would rather lose a trip than half kill myself and after the savings listed above the cost differential is significantly reduced if not eliminated and I get a night in a comfortable cabin, like a hotel, and a cruise (summer only, it can be rough in winter) and when you consider that for a motor home and 2 pax plus a cabin each way to/from IOM I can be paying £400 plus in peak for 4 hours, perhaps it is not surprising that whilst I raise an eyebrow at the cost I do not get het up.

each to their own.


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## teemyob

*ferry news*

I posted the info here

Still unable to book convenient dates for this and next month due to BF not having enough Capacity and of course the loss of PoB.

As Brittany Ferries knew Pride of Bilbao was going, why not put Pont Aven on the route more?

TM


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## teemyob

*savings and killings*



thieawin said:


> If you join their property owners abroad club you get substantial discounts. On one journey you can save more than the annual membership. I do four or more trips to Barcelona every year with either car or motorhome.
> 
> I have to have a four hour sail and 5 hour drive to get to Portsmouth, 7 to Folkestone. Its 7.5 hours from Santander and 6.5 from Bilbao to my destination. If I go to St Malo or Caen Ouistreham its nearer 16 and if I go to Calais its 24 hours drive. By using BF to Northern Spain I save fuel, miles, time, energy and road tolls. I arrive at my detination and home on return not needing 48 hours to recuperate. If I am in the car I save a hotel night each way.
> 
> I know a lot of you do have to watch the pennies. I may be more fortunate than most but I would rather lose a trip than half kill myself and after the savings listed above the cost differential is significantly reduced if not eliminated and I get a night in a comfortable cabin, like a hotel, and a cruise (summer only, it can be rough in winter) and when you consider that for a motor home and 2 pax plus a cabin each way to/from IOM I can be paying £400 plus in peak for 4 hours, perhaps it is not surprising that whilst I raise an eyebrow at the cost I do not get het up.
> 
> each to their own.


I agree.

Fine if you have the time to meander down to Spain for several weeks/months. Dover/Calais is good. Tesco and tunnel even better. As Is Stena line if you live in East Anglia.

However, if like me, you still have to work. I can leave Manchester one day and be in Southern Spain, say Javea, Motril a couple of days later. Having only driven 780 Miles.

If I do the same trip Via the tunnel, average 1500 miles 24 hours driving so 3-4 days.

Then the Diesel cost 
one way for our motorhome;

Manchester Via Folkestone-Calais is £400 + French & Spanish Tolls
Brittany Ferries Santander would cost me £200 - Almost Toll Free

Factor in wear and tear on Vehicle and So long as BF keep their fares reasonable, the Southampton/Plymouth - Santander and Bilbao will has to be a winner.

Finally, I have just booked a car on BF to Santander and for four adults it come out £112 each Return (outside Cabins) Medium MPV. For Half Term that is not too bad.

Flights from Manchester Ranged from £250 each to £1,000. Add on Taxis / Airport transfers and the limited luggage.!

Some may need seak sickness/sleeping tablets. But for me a nice meal, couple of nice beers and maybe a Brandy as a Digestive and sail away.........

Mini Cruise and Whale & Dolphin watching to boot!

TM


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## Westbay

All we need now is for Tesco to pick up again . . .


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## DTPCHEMICALS

You can only join BF property owners club if you can provide utility bills as evidence of owning a property abroad.
I used to be a member as a tugger but prices got to high even with discounts.

Dave p


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## teemyob

*Utility*



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> You can only join BF property owners club if you can provide utility bills as evidence of owning a property abroad.
> I used to be a member as a tugger but prices got to high even with discounts.
> 
> Dave p


Is this still the case?

TM


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Yes. 
It was never a problem when I joined several years ago. Tugging a caravan.
Now with mh shorter crossings are fine as we can stop when and where we like.



If they want to attract regular customers a loyalty club would help them, but as they monopolise the western sector i do not think they are bothered.

Dave p


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## grouch

It's about time Brittany ferries got some good competition. Not only are they expensive but their staff are quite objectionable. We live in Devon but the price from Plymouth to Roscoff (let alone Santander) is a joke. Plus, of course, in the winter months the ferry to Spain has been known to be out of action/damaged because of the weather. Leaving customers the choice of waiting a week or transferring to Portsmouth. 20 years ago we were a member of their frequent traveller scheme (now defunct) and at that time it was a great saving. Those were the days!!!!!!!!!!


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## thieawin

Their Frequent Travellers Club is still going. It is called Property Owners Abroad and is for frequent travellers, property owners abroad or those interested in buying abroad. You do not have to own a property abroad or produce evidence of ownership. There is an annual fee but you get substantial discounts off fares, 10% off meals in the restaurants, vouchers for breakfasts on overnights and free or half price day cabins plus more. There are two levels of membership France or France and Spain, depending on which routes you use.

I do wish people would check before posting misleading material. It is readily available on the web site

And no I do not have any connection with BF apart from useage and being a member of their frequent travellers club as I described in the posts above


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## LisaB

I have just made enquiries re the dog friendly cabins and was told there will be more by next year (after March) around 15, its about time they realise that no one wants to leave there dog down below for such along time!


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## TDG

grouch said:


> It's about time Brittany ferries got some good competition...... quote]
> Yes, at the moment they have a take-it-or-leave-it at all levels :roll: Unfortunately I fear they are not expecting any competition any time soon otherwise they wouldn't have taken on, from the Greeks, the Cap Finistere with it's unbelievably high fuel consumption 8O
> It is the marine equivalent of an American V10 RV being driven at 90 mph :evil:


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## thieawin

LisaB said:


> I have just made enquiries re the dog friendly cabins and was told there will be more by next year (after March) around 15, its about time they realise that no one wants to leave there dog down below for such along time!


You are not allowed to leave dogs in vehicles on the santander and Bilbao routes BF has always provided kennels. The dog cabins are a plus.

As for capacity it appears that is down to more demand rather than the demise of the PoB as both BF and P&O had few and irregular sailings in the winter any way.

Thanjk god the poB is gone, 36 hours. As for the Cap Finistere and fuel they are doing a 24 hour journey when it could do it in 15, so by going slow they have huge fuel savings, same with Pont Aven between Plymouth and Santander, it used to be 18 hours and is now 24. Of course fuel is cheaper now that at almost any time in two years.

Its the same with our fast craft to Liverpool which should do 2h 15 mins but is now taking 3h plus and what is more slinking off 15 minutes early so its realy 3h 15 min, which is what the conventional fery can do to Heysham


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## presto

We have to come to England from Ireland by ferry very expensive .So going to Spain Via UK doesn't seem that bad to avoid driving through frozen France.Wondering when we can book our return trip leaving UK early March coming back early May.Tried on Britteny Ferry web site with no joy. PRESTO


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## LisaB

Website says route timetable and prices will be live from early October, just maybe not this early!

The lady I spoke with mentioned that it would be having work done in March and after that there would be more poochy cabins.


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## grouch

For the know it all on this site I would just add that years ago we were told by Brittany Ferries that their system was going to be changed to only benefit owners abroad. However, those who had joined as frequent travellers would have their membership honoured, as long as they continued subscribing. Obviously this has now changed. I have not been on the Brittany Ferry website for a very long time as I do not wish to be ripped off!


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## TDG

The Rosyth - Zeebrugge vessel is, I think is also of the same as the SuperFast type designed for the Med. that BF are acquiring.
That seems to handle the short swells in the North Sea fairly wellish but I wonder about a long Atlantic swell - particularly if running below design speed :?: :roll:


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## teemyob

*know it all*



grouch said:


> For the know it all on this site I would just add that years ago we were told by Brittany Ferries that their system was going to be changed to only benefit owners abroad. However, those who had joined as frequent travellers would have their membership honoured, as long as they continued subscribing. Obviously this has now changed. I have not been on the Brittany Ferry website for a very long time as I do not wish to be ripped off!


Know it all? *

TM


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## teemyob

*Facinated*



TDG said:


> The Rosyth - Zeebrugge vessel is, I think is also of the same as the SuperFast type designed for the Med. that BF are acquiring.
> That seems to handle the short swells in the North Sea fairly wellish but I wonder about a long Atlantic swell - particularly if running below design speed :?: :roll:


I am intrigued by your knowledge of ships.

How do you know this information?

I am fascinated by ships/ferries, especially those we travel on.

TM


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## thieawin

All the superfast ropax ferries were originally built and operated by a greek company Superfast and designed for operation in the mediteranean. Superfast operated Rosyth to Zeebruge for about 8 years, that route was taken over by Norfolkline and is closing on 15 December 2010. Thereafter freight only.

Cap Finisterre was aquired from Superfast by BF in 2009 and partially updated and introduced onto the Santander run in early 2010. I have sailed on her twice and she does OK, but I have not done a rough winter crossing. Refurbishing will take place over winter, which is why, I presume, the service to Bilbao only starts next March

Pont Aven is a good sea boat, although I have done a 40 hour trip back from Santander last November, and goos sailor that I am, even i felt ill.

PS I have been a member of the BF frequent users club for 10+ years and remember when it was extended to property owners as welll as frequent travellers. I do not recall it being exclusively property owners thereafter as far as new membership was concerned


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## Hobbyfan

grouch said:


> For the know it all on this site I would just add that years ago we were told by Brittany Ferries that their system was going to be changed to only benefit owners abroad. However, those who had joined as frequent travellers would have their membership honoured, as long as they continued subscribing. Obviously this has now changed. I have not been on the Brittany Ferry website for a very long time as I do not wish to be ripped off!


Know it all? Your name appears to be well chosen! If BF's prices are a 'rip-off' why has P & O abandoned its England - Spain sailing? Surely if it's so profitable running a ferry on this route it would be continuing it?

The truth is it was losing millions. If you don't like the prices of a long ferry-sailing or can't afford them that's fine, but you really shouldn't use terms like rip-off when you've no idea whatsoever of the costs involved in running a ferry service.

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Last-remaining-PO-ship-to.5987849.jp


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## TDG

*Re: Facinated*



teemyob said:


> ...I am intrigued by your knowledge of ships. How do you know this information?..TM


Well it's sort of like this:-

-11 years Merchant Navy as Engineer Cadet to Chief Engineer, Ellerman City Liners
-2 years as Operational Superintendent, Ellerman City Liners 
-5 years as Newbuilding Project Engineer, Ellerman City Liners
-8 years as Technical Development Manager, Star Offshore Services Marine
-2 years as Technical Manager, Hall Russell Shipyard.
-9 years as Engineering Manager, United Marine Dredging
-8 years as Fleet Manager, United Marine Dredging
-5 years as an independent marine consultant

50 years and still counting :roll: 
So, you see I've been involved in ships ( designing, building, operating & managing ) all my working life - that's how I know about ships  
Pity I don't know much about anything else :roll:


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## TDG

Hobbyfan said:


> ..The truth is it was losing millions. If you don't like the prices of a long ferry-sailing or can't afford them that's fine, but you really shouldn't use terms like rip-off when you've no idea whatsoever of the costs involved in running a ferry service...


I think one of the issues for P&O was that the PoB was not their vessel - it was chartered at a quite high rate  I believe that she was originally an Ola Line vessel designed for North Sea / Baltic service and as such her size/ passenger capacity/ car and freight lane length was far from optimal for the Spanish service :roll: 
If there is one thing 50 years working with ships has taught me, it is that when times are tough unless you have a vessel specifically designed for the intended service you stand a good chance of loosing your shirt :evil:


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## Hobbyfan

TDG said:


> I think one of the issues for P&O was that the PoB was not their vessel - it was chartered at a quite high rate  I believe that she was originally an Ola Line vessel designed for North Sea / Baltic service and as such her size/ passenger capacity/ car and freight lane length was far from optimal for the Spanish service :roll:
> If there is one thing 50 years working with ships has taught me, it is that when times are tough unless you have a vessel specifically designed for the intended service you stand a good chance of loosing your shirt :evil:


I'm not going to argue anything about ships with you!


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## Penquin

We live in rural Devon and MrsW frequently works on Fridays till 1730, I finish school at about 1600 so I pick her up, drive to Plymouth, have a meal in one of the many restaurants in Plymouth then board at about 2200.

Sleep overnight, breakfast included in cost as Owners Abroad members, arrive in France at about 0800 and can then set off relaxed, fed and comfortable.

We do not consider it a "rip off" as it does exactly what we want. There are no other routes that would allow us to do anything similar - even Portsmouth is 2 - 3 hours drive away. 

Owners Abroad gives us the discount yes, it also gives us a small kick back if friends of ours use our Owners Abroad number - perfectly legal and they get a 10% discount too. So BF works well for us.

We have done Plymouth - Santander and enjoyed it greatly in the summer - but I am not so sure about the autumn half-term being so smooth and MrsW gets seasick in a canoe on a river...........

I am very happy if others don't want to use BF - that leaves more space for those of us who actually find them helpful and courteous - mind you we have found if you are polite to them they respond in the same manner......

Dave


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## TDG

Hobbyfan said:


> ...I'm not going to argue anything about ships with you!


Why not :?: :roll: 
Get me going and some smart arse (and we have plenty of them :roll: ) will catch me out with something that you can all enjoy :lol:


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## teemyob

*Re: Facinated*



TDG said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I am intrigued by your knowledge of ships. How do you know this information?..TM
> 
> 
> 
> Well it's sort of like this:-
> 
> -11 years Merchant Navy as Engineer Cadet to Chief Engineer, Ellerman City Liners
> -2 years as Operational Superintendent, Ellerman City Liners
> -5 years as Newbuilding Project Engineer, Ellerman City Liners
> -8 years as Technical Development Manager, Star Offshore Services Marine
> -2 years as Technical Manager, Hall Russell Shipyard.
> -9 years as Engineering Manager, United Marine Dredging
> -8 years as Fleet Manager, United Marine Dredging
> -5 years as an independent marine consultant
> 
> 50 years and still counting :roll:
> So, you see I've been involved in ships ( designing, building, operating & managing ) all my working life - that's how I know about ships
> Pity I don't know much about anything else :roll:
Click to expand...

Magic, now I know where I need to come for answers in the future.

Thanks,
TM.


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## TDG

Penquin said:


> We live in rural Devon ...............Dave


So do we but surely a lot must depend on our individual financial circumstances?
For very personal reasons I recently had to do Poole - Cherbourg, Cherbourg - Portsmouth @ £400  when I knew I could do Dover- Calis return @ £75  and we have lots of people to visit between Bideford & Dover 8) 
My bank balance hopes those personal reasons don't arise again :roll:


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## CatherineandSteve

Hi,

Grouch you state BF as a rip off, Who are you comparing them with ? 
As far as I am aware no other ferry company runs a comparable route :wink: 

Cheers Steve


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## Hobbyfan

CatherineandSteve said:


> Grouch you state BF as a rip off, Who are you comparing them with ? As far as I am aware no other ferry company runs a comparable route :wink:
> Cheers Steve


On this site there are a few people who, if they consider that, in their opinion, something is expensive, it's a 'rip-off'.

They've absolutely no idea of the costs involved or the margins made but it's more than they want to pay, therefore it's a 'rip-off'.

They can get a ferry from Dover for fifty quid so if the 24 hour sailing to Spain is £700 it must therefore be a 'rip-off'. This despite the fact that P & O has abandoned the route because it can't make a profit and has lost millions!

I hope that explains it!


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## TDG

Anyone remember P&O's *Lion* on this "service" :?: :lol:


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## teemyob

*Lion*

When was the year of the Lion?

TM


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## TDG

*Re: Lion*



teemyob said:


> When was the year of the Lion?
> 
> TM


Can't be sure - Early '70s :?: In fact I am now wondering if indeed it was the Lion :roll: - could it have been the first Panther :roll: It certainly wasn't the second Panther as I knew her very (too :lol well 
Then again it may have been the Eagle :roll: 
I remember her as having continual engine problems and seem to recall thinking it was crazy to put on that long run. 20 miles across the Channel would have been safer :roll: 
Sorry to be so vague - but I am 100 :lol:


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## Penquin

TDG said:


> For very personal reasons I recently had to do Poole - Cherbourg, Cherbourg - Portsmouth @ £400  when I knew I could do Dover- Calis return @ £75  and we have lots of people to visit between Bideford & Dover 8)
> My bank balance hopes those personal reasons don't arise again :roll:


I understand exactly what you are saying and there is never an absolute right or wrong to such decisions. :?

I base my choices on the following points which apply to us;

1. Plymouth Roscoff departure is late evening and we can sleep across the channel,

2. the extra distance to drive to Dover adds considerably to the mileage - for your trip in the UK alone it would add 342 miles at say 25 miles per gallon = nearly 14 gallons @ £1.12 per litre = £69.72 for the journey in the UK

AND that would take several hours driving plus stops - say 6 hours for that trip extra PLUS the extra mileage required in France to the destination........ :roll:

We simply (!) drive straight down the West coast route to Bordeaux and then turn left to Bergerac, this takes about 8 hours each way and is about 480 miles from Roscoff whereas if we went to Calais it would be about 565 each way - a further 170 miles costing approximately another £35 plus time.... 

In our view the extra driving plus wear and tear plus extra food en route means that we choose to use the BF route - on which of course we get the 10% discount...... 

That works for us - due to time constraints on MrsW's time off from NHS Direct (although who knows she MIGHT be made redundant.......) - it fits in for our lifestyle and needs but we frequently envy the Tesco vouchers deals for those who are close enough to make it worthwhile...... 

As I say, in the end it is an individual choice that each of us makes, there is no right or wrong answer....... :roll:

Dave


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## teemyob

*Works*

And it works for us to, despite living up north. The Western routes can work out better for a little extra cost.

We mostly use Hull - Zeebrugge crossings to get to Scandinavia, Beneluxe and even the south of france and Alps.

However, we will be using BF more if they keep their prices reasonable. We will use this for Spain, Andorra and Western France. After all, Biaritz is only a short drive away.

And if you want a comparison. The Short Western Channel routes are expensive compared to P&O North Sea. Northern Spain are better value.

However, no wonder the Rosyth crossing is going. Prices I have been quoted ranged from £800 for to £1,800 for inside cabin 4 people.

TM


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## thieawin

2011 tickets now on sale


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## Hobbyfan

I'm quite please with Brittany Ferries. I booked a crossing to Santander on January 6th, returning Caen/Portsmouth on February 4th.

Needless to say a social engagement came up on February 2nd and I don't want to miss it.

I logged on to BF's website, where there's a 'Manage your booking' section and changed the booking so we're going out earlier and returning in time for my function.

It cost nothing to change it online and an added bonus was that the new booking was £50 less.

With BF, unlike the greedy lot at P & O, one doesn't pay in full immediately and it just takes a £25 deposit. Now when BF debits the outstanding sum in a few weeks, it will simply debit the new lower figure.

Credit where credit's due! They appear to have a good policy if you change your booking online. If I'd done it over the phone there'd have been a £15 charge.


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## teemyob

*£145*



thieawin said:


> 2011 tickets now on sale


6 Adults, 1 infant in a small MPV
Portsmouth - Santander out 
Bilbao - Portsmouth in

September 2011 sailings

1 x 4 berth Outside
1 x 2 berth inside each way

£1200 Works out at £200 Return - Per person with Infant Free

I will leave it up to someone else to do the sums for

Flights + MPV Hire

or

Motorhome costs Brittany Ferries v Short sea Dover/Folkestone routes with a motorhome.

We are going by BF shortly and the MPV + 4 Adults works out much cheaper than Flying.

TM


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## thieawin

in spain now

I flew to BCN with Easyjet at £100 return, friend from Stansted to Reus for £150

Have own car here

Back in November via BF 4 x 4, 2 adults and 3 dogs; £700 return with 4 berth outside pet cabin


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## teemyob

*cars an planes*

We don't have a car in Spain. We are taking our Mercedes Sprinter Bus. Nearest I can get that is much Smaller, costs over £1,097+ Extras for the duration .

So for me, BF is still far cheaper.


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