# frozen (insulated)water tank



## 110779

I have a 2009 580pr sundance which after reading on these forums is rated class 2 for insulation with an insulated fresh water tank so why did I get up and find the pump wouldnt work due to the water having frozen in the tank, if I had known that it was going to freeze I would have drained the system, We are now living out of water containers for everything even flushing the toilet, we are full timing and we are in skegness for christmas and its been the worse weather for years we have been told but the gripe I have is that the tank SHOULDNT have frozen in the first pace, luckily no damage has been done, (i hope) as we haven't filled up the system again due to the forecast of being -4 tonight


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## richardjames

That's bad news! Where is the water tank situated?


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## 110779

Hi Richard the tank is underneath the floor outside!!! I would have thought they would have put it on board like the avantgarde we had before this one , the tank never froze on that one as we left the wardrobe door ajar as it was in a panel behind the wardrobe


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## ob1

I can only suggest that insulation is not the same as heating and it's only a matter of time until the water will freeze in that type weather, whatever the makers say.


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## SwiftGroup

Hi Tricia-terry,

Sorry to hear about the frozen tank. I can confirm the 2009 Sundance’s do have insulated fresh water tanks.

However, as with any insulation, it does not add heat into the system (to eliminate freezing), it can only delay the process of the water loosing its heat, and serves only to keep whatever heat is in the water within the tank, and reducing heat loss.

Unfortunately, with the current weather, and temperatures not rising much above freezing during the day, the heat within the tank will be lost to the environment over a period of time.

The Sundance’s are able to be fitted with tank heaters, which add heat into the water, which will eliminate freezing, with the negative affect of consuming electrical power.

Ash


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## RichardnGill

Any none heated tank will freeze.

It has been below freezing for a few days, all the insulation does is give you more time before it freezes.

You would be better of with a heater in the tank if you need the van all year round?



Richard...


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## 110779

Yes at a cost of about £112 extra I have been told but as the dealer knew we were fulltimig why didnt he suggest that option, retrospectively adding it i suppose would be much more due to labour costs?


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## 110779

I read on here that we could put an aquarium heater in but have looked at the heaters and they seem too big to get through the overflow pipe and as they have a fitted plug which cant be removed down to safety reasons, how do we get it into the tank?


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## Fairportgoer

Good Evening,

We are full timers and we are currently in Germany. We had a fish tank heater fitted to our Auto-Trail but unfortunately it did not stop our fresh water tank freezing  

Our heating has been on full but we have decided that the extreme weather conditions that we have had was too much for it to cope with.

The coldest we recorded was minus 18 degrees C  

We are now in a house for Christmas before we head back home to the UK :wink: 

Hopefully there will be no damage done :roll: 

Off to our last Christmas market in Hamburg tomorrow :lol: 

Regards

Dean


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## SwiftGroup

Hi,

The simplest solution would be to fit the tank heater into the access cap at the top of the tank, allowing the heating element to be submerged into the fresh water. Some of the wiring may already be present on your vehicle, including the fusebox connection, but this will need to be confirmed by your dealer. The good news is that your fusebox is ready to take a heater option, and so, separate power connections are not required.

I would also suggest that a heater with a thermostat is fitted, so that the element is only active when the water temperature drops below a preset level.

Ash


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## 110779

Thanks for the suggestions Ash I will have to look into the heater option as we are too far away from the dealer to ask them to add one. we have an array of other problems which need to be sorted, eg no heating, not working had to buy electric heater, damage to outside door frame caused by wind retaining catch on top of door breaking plus other numerous faults but hey thats for another forum, just had enough of van problems and now cant wait to trade it in.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Hi,

Boil a few kettles of hot water and pour it into the water tank through the filler. you may need a funnel, not the best solution but it could get you out of trouble for the time being.

Weather forecast looks better so it may only be a temporary problem.

Peter


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## 110779

Thanks for the tip peter but surely that wouldn't keep it from freezing ALL night?


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## coppo

Or better still

px your van for a good fully winterised one, especially if fulltiming in it.

Paul.


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## 110779

Thanks Paul, thats exactly what we are planning, cant wait for the next major show. wont be another swift though.


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## coppo

I take it then you'll be at Peterborough in April next year, mind you i wouldn't go with the specific intention of buying another one, if you do you may buy in haste, in my opinion this time of year is best to buy any vehicle.
Something German i bet you'll end up buying.

Good luck in your choice, whatever that maybe.

Paul.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

tricia-terry said:


> Thanks for the tip peter but surely that wouldn't keep it from freezing ALL night?


Well it would hopefully get your water flowing and as the tank is insulated it would keep a certain ammount of heat in the water overnight and you could top it up in the morning.

Just a thought.

Peter


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## Rapide561

*Winter*

Hi

A bit off topic here, but as far as I know the insulation grades refer to the manner in which the heating of the habitation area takes place.

1) Grade 2 - able to maintain a temperature of plus 20 degrees C inside, with the heating on, when it is 0 degrees C outdoors.

2) Grade 3 - able to maintain a temperature of plus 20 degrees C inside when it is -15 outside, with the heating on.

There is, as far as I am aware, no reference to things such as waste pipes and fresh water etc.

Apologies for coming off topic, sort of, but the info may be of interest.

Russell


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## geordie01

what you will find that as the tank is insulated it will take longer to defrost as the inulation will also do a good job of keeping warmer air from melting the ice. you need to get some heat into the tank peters idea is a good one and is what i would be doing.


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## Jezport

coppo said:


> Or better still
> 
> px your van for a good fully winterised one, especially if fulltiming in it.
> 
> Paul.


According to my instruction book, the Frankia range are OK down to -20
All the tanks and pipes are inside the double floor.

We have not had ours for long, but we have kept the heating on very low during this current cold weather and everything is flowing freely.

People should remember that even the best winterised van will still freeze if left unheated for long periods in freezing weather.


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## 96299

Jezport said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or better still
> 
> px your van for a good fully winterised one, especially if fulltiming in it.
> 
> Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> People should remember that even the best winterised van will still freeze if left unheated for long periods in freezing weather.
Click to expand...

That could be me then. 

steve


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## 110779

looks like its going to be a german one for us then,as the tanks are in the floor, thats definately on our list for another van, isn't there a show Jan 7 somewhere?


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## LadyJ

tricia-terry said:


> looks like its going to be a german one for us then,as the tanks are in the floor, thats definately on our list for another van, isn't there a show Jan 7 somewhere?


Shepton Tricia and you still have time to book to camp with us :lol:

Shepton Show

Jacquie


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## 110779

thanks Jacquie but we are at the families in crewe until after that so we have to go to the peterborough one in april.hopefully weather will improve and we can fill up with water again soon.


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## ICDSUN

tricia-terry said:


> thanks Jacquie but we are at the families in crewe until after that so we have to go to the peterborough one in april.hopefully weather will improve and we can fill up with water again soon.


NEC in Feb


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## 110779

thanks ICDSUN I forgot about that one, just going to find out if motorhome facts has a rally there or a meet,


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## bobandjane

Hi, we have had the same problems when we had our old van, we have a Eura Mobil now fully winterised down to -20, while your on your travels have a look here:

http://www.omcmotorhomes.co.uk/

We go off to France 8th January and cant wait, its a big cold country in winter,  dreaded it the last couple of years in our Swift.  Bob.


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## 110779

thanks bobandjane have taken a look and there are some bargains, we want arear lounge that can be made into 2 singles or doubles and they are hard to find with a euromobil, am looking at anything with rear lounge as the layout with the 580pr is perfect but with an addition of a dinette up front also AND winterized,,,,,dont want much do I lol :lol:


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## LadyJ

Try a Geist Phantom Tricia & Terry rear lounge 2 big singles or 1 massive double, front dinette, winterised fresh water tank inside, waste tank out side but ours hasn't frozen up yet  it is insulated.

I think somebody on here has one for sale have a look in the classified section cant think what there user name is.


Jacquie


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## 110779

Thanks Jacquie will have a look...


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## Mick757

Dumb question time again, im afraid. But do these tanks HAVE to be so low down (particularly the fresh water) ie under the floor/outside? We havent a van yet, as we are still deliberating on requirements. And after reading about 'frozen tanks/pipes, i was wondering if repositioning was an option, if space could be found? (which id do myself).

Mick.


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## rayc

Mick757 said:


> Dumb question time again, im afraid. But do these tanks HAVE to be so low down (particularly the fresh water) ie under the floor/outside? We havent a van yet, as we are still deliberating on requirements. And after reading about 'frozen tanks/pipes, i was wondering if repositioning was an option, if space could be found? (which id do myself).
> 
> Mick.


Mick
The fresh water tanks in both of the MH's I have owned have been inside the dinnette seat base. One had a submersible pump and the other a remote one. 
Ray


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## 110779

to Mick757 you have replied to my thread, wrong place I think, if you go to main forums and start new thread I am sure you will get an answer from someone more knowledgable than me I wish I could reposition mine and then my problems would be over, saying that even the waste pipe has frozen now so I cant even let water out so have to keep the waste tank in bathroom and empty all waste into that and then empty when full!!!! oh JOY... merry christmas to me!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Jezport

Mick757 said:


> Dumb question time again, im afraid. But do these tanks HAVE to be so low down (particularly the fresh water) ie under the floor/outside? We havent a van yet, as we are still deliberating on requirements. And after reading about 'frozen tanks/pipes, i was wondering if repositioning was an option, if space could be found? (which id do myself).
> 
> Mick.


No they dont, both my tanks are in the double floor over the rear axles.


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## Rapide561

*Tanks*

The tanks are low down for various reasons, one of which being that many motorhomers travel with full tanks - imagine the force of the weight of 100 kg of water in an emergency braking situation if the tanks were high up!

Russell


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## bobandjane

Hi, our tanks are up high and I don't think it makes any different's at all, I had lorries for 18 years and you drove depending on what you were carrying, I have pulled all sorts of trailers, from hanging meat to heaped up tipper trailers, the only thing is cornering too fast and tipping over.  We have 150 fresh / 100 waste, even the drain tap is in a locker, double floor everything inside. 8O We spent 2 years blocking up draughts insulating pipes and decided you cannot make a van winterised the same as the Germans do it. :lol: 

Our van has the truma in the garage, so hot in there, anything wet goes in there to dry, over the garage fixed double bed with two hot air pipes, the bathroom next to the truma boiler so the toilet is hot, another Truma heater at the front (Trumatic E 2400) double glazed side window at front, and no draughts from the cab area, and when travelling we have a heat exchanger that provides heat in the rear for passengers, you can do what you like,  but you cant do that, I know I'v tried. :lol: Bob.


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## CliveMott

We had similar freezing problems with our previous motorhome.

Change the van to one with an inboard tank. Those vans with double floors are supreme in this respect.

C.


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## 110779

Bob are you TRYING to ruin my day or what ???  you are making us very envious rubbing it in!!!  we are positively green


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## bobandjane

Hi, this is what you need to do.  Bob.


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## Chudders

Tricia-terry,
Just to rub it in a bit more (sorry), As is the case with Bob, We also have a Eura Mobil 810, double floor, all pipes and tanks within floor area which is heated etc. No problems so far but its early days yet.
I am on hook up at present but there is electric heating in the double floor area as well as blown air from gas when in use.

I,m not sure that low down or higher tanks makes alot of difference after all 2 passengers could weigh in the region of 150 Kg,s and you don,t ask them to get down on or under the floor. They are belted in but so are water tanks bolted down. It may assist in preventing a bit of rolling depending on your van.
Dave


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## windyspark

Our Eura Mobil Terestra 690 HS has a rear U lounge which converts to a double bed
tanks and pipes are between floors,
check it out, sounds like just what your after.


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## Mick757

tricia-terry said:


> to Mick757 you have replied to my thread, wrong place I think, if you go to main forums and start new thread I am sure you will get an answer from someone more knowledgable than me I wish I could reposition mine and then my problems would be over,


Hi tricia, i was fully aware of where id asked my question, and beleive the subsequent answers may have helped the pair of us, besides others.

Mery Christmas - Mick.


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## 110779

just trying to be helpful mick, didnt intend to mean anything


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