# Chris Packham is right. We are doomed.



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We have it in our power to save the planet but we won't.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its taking over as the next social media pissing contest for sure. You would think for once it would be something most people could agree on.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, Nero fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Who is "we" Ray? You are doing your bit by recycling all you can. I am doing my bit by doing the same and buying organic and local and plastic free etc when I can. Our generation, generally, always turn lights off and heating down and think before making journeys in the car.

My old, reactionary, Maths Teacher was right, I think, to blame advertising. Once it became big business we were doomed to want different because it was better or bigger or faster.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

But we are drowning as we run out of water. WE need to reduce breeding and consumption. Seeing the plight of those MeggaCities frightens me.

Ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

The program is being repeated tonight on BBC2 at 11.15 pm.
I personally feel we should all be aware of the planets problems.!
Taxing companies is not the way to combat our demise but just move more cash to the Exchequer. 

Ray.


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

The Dinosaurs became extinct even though they had more common sense than we have! :surprise::smile2:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

But did they do it to themselves Ted?

Ray.


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

My friend, who is very “green” and very aware environmentally nevertheless states that she will not stop flying which strikes me as a tad hypocritical. Until all aircraft produced are the ‘cleaner’ variety should we not refuse to fly for pleasure? Is it too naive to say that although we are insisting world governments DO something, which of course they must, aren’t we, the ordinary population the ones that can REALLY make a difference, the ones with the real power? We are billions of people after all who could make a phenomenal contribution by ditching our diesel vehicles (and motorhomes!) plus wherever possible buying our vegetables ONLY when in season and our meat plastic free and ONLY buying home produced goods, not flying off on holidays, keeping white goods until they die of old age, plus a million other ways to help. We will all state we do our best, but do we? We, I suggest, do as much as we want to do before it crosses a personal line. China is the biggest pollutant but where are all the phones we love made? How do Extinction Rebellion communicate with each other? The oceans are polluted with plastic, so why doesn’t a significant portion of the population just stop using it? I see people with carrier bags all the time which in my opinion should cost at least £1 each. It seems to me that although the will is there many of us are simply not prepared to make those further sacrifices. I’ve got an iPhone and an IPad just like my other half, a diesel motorhome, a petrol car and I fly. I want a safer and healthier planet and I do my bit most certainly, but I won’t be giving up my iPhone or iPad anytime soon or my motorhoming holidays. I am a hypocrite plain and simple. I am part of the problem.
Linda


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

If you are, Linda, then so am I. I do not have an iphone but I do have a laptop and ipad. I try very hard to buy locally produced meat, fruit and veg. I watch all my utility bills like a hawk and try to shop weekly rather than daily in the car. If I can find them I buy wool or cotton clothing but their production is not pollution free  I choose plastic free when I can get it. All my cosmetics like shampoo and conditioner etc are cut open to retrieve the, several days worth of, product that refuses to come out otherwise!

It galls me, however, when I visit my brother in America (very rarely) and see that it is socially unacceptable to hang washing out to dry on a clothes line! They all tumble dry their clothes when the sun is blazing down outside! No one drives around in an old car. These cars are all gas guzzlers. No one walks on the golf course, they all have buggies. The snowbirds fly off to Florida every winter and leave the heating on full blast in the huge houses in Minnesota where it regularly gets to -10 to -15 C and often much lower! 

It makes me feel that my sacrifices are pointless


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

And don’t get me started on toilet wipes. We have a Klargester which is a domestic sewage system and is shared by five households. When we have it serviced our chap invariably pulls out toilet wipes. He has told us that no matter what the blurb says on the packet these wipes DO NOT degrade .... EVER! They just chock up the system. So, because we administer the running of it we regularly put out notes to say please don’t but, guess what, he still finds them every bi-annual service. Our neighbours swear it’s not them. Toilet wipes should actually be banned, be made illegal to manufacture. Why won’t they though ..... because it’s a billion dollar industry. I have seen programmes of people picking them up off in their thousands off the banks of the Thames. They block major drains and are an absolute disaster. So many people must be using them, including my 94 year old mother who refuses to stop buying them, much to my utter disgust. Very simple solution - ban companies from making them.
In our dreams eh?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Known as "rag" in the trade  Chris used to be an engineer on Anglian Water sewage side. It is a huge problem and costs the bill payer a fortune because call outs to fix blockages are often at emergency rates! Cotton buds, sanitary items, wet wipes, flannels, underwear and don't even mention fat! It is a culture thing because many Europeans do not even flush toilet paper.


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

Flannels ..... underwear...... and I just remembered our chap found condoms as well...........what is WRONG with people! 😡🤬


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just try having a macerator and having to 'unbung' it now and again. I have been there on the films.

Yes Pat and Shingi, we can only do enough to satisfy our consciences. In the grand scheme of things it's bugger all. My holier than though friend in CA keeps banging on about me going electric (like him). Even though our lifestyle does not embrace an electric vehicle. When all the time CA is about the biggest polluter outside China.

We do what we can and feel comfortable with. It's nice being on a water meter and reusing things from the throw away society. Nearly all our 'fashion' comes from sales still with labels on for pennies. We don't need todays technology or media as my brain is still trying to get to grips with yesterdays tech.

Ray.


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

patp said:


> If you are, Linda, then so am I. I do not have an iphone but I do have a laptop and ipad. I try very hard to buy locally produced meat, fruit and veg. I watch all my utility bills like a hawk and try to shop weekly rather than daily in the car. If I can find them I buy wool or cotton clothing but their production is not pollution free  I choose plastic free when I can get it. All my cosmetics like shampoo and conditioner etc are cut open to retrieve the, several days worth of, product that refuses to come out otherwise!
> 
> It galls me, however, when I visit my brother in America (very rarely) and see that it is socially unacceptable to hang washing out to dry on a clothes line! They all tumble dry their clothes when the sun is blazing down outside! No one drives around in an old car. These cars are all gas guzzlers. No one walks on the golf course, they all have buggies. The snowbirds fly off to Florida every winter and leave the heating on full blast in the huge houses in Minnesota where it regularly gets to -10 to -15 C and often much lower!
> 
> ...


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Now whereas I do appreciate the sentiments of some of the posts you can bet your bottom dollar (how appropriate) that post Brexit the EU will ban wipes before we do.

As to comments about our dearly beloved US, you can bet we will consuming and valuing exactly what they do before too long.

Dare I say, that anyone who values environmental standards and wants to resist certain parts of the American way of life should be absolutely 

against..................oh I can't be bothered to say it.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ha ha ha, we do try not to follow Americans down the slippery slope of wanton consumerism Peter. We don't need to become great Blobbys.
Hopefully Black days, Thanksgiving days and holidays shopping need not happen.

Ray.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

We don't need to become anything Ray.........here's hoping......................but hope isn't always enough against evidence.

It's only the "yoke" of the EU that has MADE us resist the rush to the bottom like the US.

I would love to hear of one quality standard, of any kind, that they have that is better than that "imposed" upon us by the EU


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It's official.

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/01/...er-to-midnight-than-ever-before/?ncid=webmail

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Of course we could always be a leader rather than a follower


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Carry on Pat. I know my place. But we have been re using things for many years now. The high street has gone bust on our efforts.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Plastic water bottle is another pet hate of mine!

Whatever happened to the milk machines we used to have on street corners? If we wanted a drink we could buy some milk! When out and about in the car and wanting a drink I pop into the garage and am faced with racks and racks of fizzy pop. When we had the good old Milk Marketing Board they used to promote milk as a "drink on the go".


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Do you really believe @patp that we will lead the world in environmental standards...............led by Johnson.

Do you have any evidence at all that we will not be lowering all our environmental standards to fall in with the US,our valued partner.

Again, tell me one standard they have that is higher than what we have now (generally imposed by the EU dictators ????)

Forgive me if I did not understand where you stood on Brexit.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I didn't say we would, I said we could. 

We live in a democracy and it is up to us to make our voices heard on issues that matter.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

patp said:


> I didn't say we would, I said we could.
> 
> We live in a democracy and it is up to us to make our voices heard on issues that matter.


Democracy when it suits our masters, possible to make voices heard maybe but if they don't like what they hear they simply disregard.
Where did the petition to repeal article 50 get? there were quite a lot of voices signed up to that.

.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

*water*



patp said:


> Plastic water bottle is another pet hate of mine!
> 
> Whatever happened to the milk machines we used to have on street corners? If we wanted a drink we could buy some milk! When out and about in the car and wanting a drink I pop into the garage and am faced with racks and racks of fizzy pop. When we had the good old Milk Marketing Board they used to promote milk as a "drink on the go".


it rained a lot here in the algarve yesterday and they need the rain as the lakes are empty

i have for years said what would happen if we poured all the water from all the stored containers back into the ground

would we still have water shortages or floods

i wonder if there is a figure of how many liters of coke there is in containers around the world at any one time

or how much wine is stored in bottles (maybe we should drink more wine)

i am sure Ray could advise on which is the best to get rid of first french or Portuguese

:drinking:

barry


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

patp said:


> I didn't say we would, I said we could.
> 
> We live in a democracy and it is up to us to make our voices heard on issues that matter.


And who tells us what issues matter...................we have the weight of the right wing press telling us that Brexit matters.

The likes of Greta and extinction rebellion are rubbished and ignored because they tell us something else is more important.

You seem to want things to happen, without having the people in power who will make those things happen.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I just drink whatever has the most dust on first Barry. Called recycling?
Yes sadly Peter Extinction Rebellion are not advocating making millions so are labeled cranks. It's only vast corporations that can make the most 'noise'.

Ray.


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