# My Trauma C6002EH problems...



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

We had problems with the gas side of our truma (C6002EH) whilst away on holiday in Germany.

1. Sometimes the boiler would light, but on most occasions it wouldn't, the main symptoms being a constant clicking as the heater tried to light - or - the clicking noise followed by the red light on the control panel (we had plenty of gas).

2. On heating the water from cold there was a terrible smell after the water had been heated (hard to explain but a bit like that smell when the dentist has been drilling your fillings at the dentists)

We took the van to a German Truma specialist and he diagnosed a faulty circuit board which they replaced. The system seemed to work ok for a short while but then started playing up the same as before.

I suspected a faulty gaslow changeover valve so disconnected this from the system. Again, worked for a short while, then the problems started again.

Got home and drained the water down. Tried the heating several times and it seemed to light perfectly every time :? .

Took the van back to Brownhills and filled the gaslows before delivery to them.
They did a full system test and found 2 things..

1. They pressure tested the regulator and found it to be faulty which they have replaced.

2. They also reckon that the gaslows were overfilled and had to vent off the excess gas.

I've now got the van back and have tried the system in all combinations with and without water several times and all seems to be ok now . The awful smell from the water heater also hasn't re occurred either (touch wood on both accounts).

I know others have had problems with their truma combi boilers on here so perhaps a check of the regulator might be worth a go.

I'm happy with Brownhills work but i'm a bit worried by their conclusions that the bottles were overfilled, I didn't think this was possible as they are fitted with 80% stop valves. I was unable to speak to the techie who did the job as I collected the van on Sat afternoon when they had all gone home.

Any comments on this would be appreciated, especially about the gaslows....

pete.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Pete,

I'd email and/or phone Richard Glazebrook about it. 

I've found the 80% valve reliable and consistent in all of my half-dozen or so refills and top-ups. My gauge displays to 5% intervals and after each fill-up it is smack on 100%, not 95%, for example. I calibrated the gauge on installation and haven't changed the setting. Usually as I shut off the gas cylinder before filling up I check the level and mentally calculate roughly how many litres I expect to fill before hitting the 80% valve; it's again pretty predictable. If you don't shut the gas cylinder valve on filling you can get pressure build-up in the regulator which is nevertheless designed to vent the excess so things can never get beyond the regulator.

I'm not sure how much further you can go without a lot more testing in operation. The smell on heating could have been a dicky component in the circuit board - these usually get a reputation pretty quickly if there's a generic fault which is why the dealers swap them so readily, whethe or not they have the evidence that it's the real problem. And the subsequent lighting intermittents could well have been a dicky regulator, the real failure problem you've had all along. At least if you have problems again it should be pretty conclusive that it's the burner unit; there's not much else involved!

Th 80% valve issue seems spurious to me as far as the problem goes, though worth you getting peace of mind from Richard.

Dave


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

Pete,

Normally when a gas bottle is over filled the gas comes out as liquid instead of vapour. This could be dangerous if you were using the gas cooker. 

Over the years I've had to "Gas Off" a few calor bottles I've had filled in Greece.

This is a post from the Motorhome List (message number 21026 ) following my request for advice on over filling gas tanks. I don't know if the stop/fill is the same in a tank as in the bottle.

"If you have two 60 litres that gives you a water capacity of 120 litres and
a gas capacity of 96 litres. It depends how level you are but certainly I
would personally stop pumping at 96 litre in Turkey but in the UK where it
is much cooler, a 100 litres would make no difference. The valves can be
forced to allow more gas to enter as they have a pinhole in them even when shut. LPG as pumped from garage pumps is a mixture of propane and butane. In this country it is predominantly Propane (90%), but in warmer climes it can have as much as 40% Butane in the mix."

I hope you get this sorted.

Don


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

I'm interested to know what the smell was Pete, I think I had the same smell when I used the heating for the first time in a while?

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Thanks Dave & Don,

I always turn off the supply at the bottles before refilling but how do you calcualte how much gas you should expect to go in the bottles? AFAIK the gaslow gauge doesn't give true contents just the pressure and a 'yellow' when its getting low followed by a 'red' when its just about to run out! The only time I would know how much there was to go in is immediately after the first bottle has run out.
I'm thinking that i'm in agreement with Daves analogy that the gaslow overfill is probably nothing to do with the lighting probs and i'm hoping the regulator was the problem all along but I will be contacting Richard first thing Monday for his comments about the overfilling issue. I recently swopped my 2 6kg bottles for 11kg's at gaslow, I hope I haven't been extremely unlucky and have 2 x duff bottles, whats the odds of that happening?

I intend to test the system regularly up until we go on our next jaunt in Alpine temperatures in February, if the heating failed in these conditions we'd be in serious do do's :? 

pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Pete,

The gauge is not the Gaslow "I'm nearly empty" pressure gauge but a Truma Sonatic level (volume) gauge. So 0% is empty and 100% is when the 80% valve operates and it is pretty linear with use all in between.

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Dave (M&D),

The water heater was in regular use before the problems. I have no idea what the smell was but maybe a combination of the unburnt gas being ejected after the intermittent failure to light ? I dunno. Bloody awful smell though!

pete.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

What about an underspecced comonent on the PCB? You can get smells of hot resin, burning, etc.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I suppose thats possible Dave, but the smell also happened occasionally after the circuit board was replaced, please don't tell me that it might have failed again  

Going back to Dons reply about overfilling and the gas coming out as liquid instead of vapour. What are the symptoms when this happens?

pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

In which case I think the PCB replacement may well have been another red herring in desperation to do something in case it fixes it. As I implied earlier, the problem can only be PCB (or intermittent electrical connection), burner unit or regulator. Can either you or M&D localise the smell?

I went back to Don on Skype but he's away from the keyboard.

Simple. No liquid can get to any appliance. The regulator vents and the place stinks of unburnt gas. You'll want to retch. In short, you wouldn't have missed it!

I have the same problem, only on refill. There is an automatic one-way valve at each end of the filler pipe. I'm pretty sure I have a small leak in that pipe, or at the elbow as it goes into the bottle but the pipe side of the valve. The main gas valve is shut so the regulator is isolated. When the pipe empties, the smell goes until the next refill.

The corollary is that the pipe, in normal leak-free operation, remains full of liquid gas!

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> Can either you or M&D localise the smell?


I can't, all i can say is it was immediately noticeable on entering the living accomodation and on further investigation probably worse in the garage where the bottles are stored in a separate cupboard. I'm fairly sure it wasn't a gas smell as I've smelt that before, as I said before, more like a burning smell you get after lots of drilling at the dentists, thats the best way I can describe it.



> Simple. No liquid can get to any appliance. The regulator vents and the place stinks of unburnt gas. You'll want to retch. In short, you wouldn't have missed it!


In that case, then maybe the Brownhill techie was also clutching at straws as there was no smell of gas after the refill.

pete


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

The smell def comes from the truma unit, in my model it's located under the wardrobe, in it's own cupboard, my sense of smell is very keen, and PJ's description is pretty much spot on, another description would be to compare it to a newly switched on electrical appliance thats reaching operating temperature for the first time,.....difficult one I know :? 

Definatley not gas I worked for Vauxhall installing LPG conversions, and I am aware of the stenching agent added.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for that Dave.

Do you still get the 'smell' or was it a one off when you first started it?

Hopefully gaslow can explain the overfilling problem tommorrow when I ring them. I'm still not conviced this actually happened.

pete


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Pete,

If it is any help, our unit (C 3402) which is over seven years old now still gives off a newness smell when operating at peak temperature, if it has not been used for a period. If in constant use, there is no smell at all.

I too have a keen nose for unusual smells/vapours/odours, and ours smells like new wood that has been exposed to a heat source.

Investigations reveal nothing, thankfully, although the boiler is quite hot to touch.

The smoke detector and CO dectector remain silent.    

Although I should be used to it by now, it still makes me wary when I can smell it in the atmosphere. 

Ours does not come under the recent Truma recall

Jock.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Thanks jock.

A quick update;

I've been on the blower to Gaslow this morning about the possibility of overfilling.

There is an extremely remote possibility of this happeneing but highly unlikely, they have only had a coupe fail from all the bottles they have ever sold. They say that Brownhills are possibly mistaking a possible overfill if they had disconnected any pipes other than the ones from the cylinder to the regulator. The other pipes (the stainless woven mesh type) always contain gas and will vent when they are disconnected which is normal and this is where they might have wrongly diagnosed an overfill. You will occasionaly have the system vent when it has reached the 80% point, which is followed by a strong smell of gas which will quickly dissapear as the small amount of gas disperses down the drop hole. I had no gas smells after filling so their opinion is that it hadn't been overfilled. All this seems to confirm Daves (DAB) observations, cheers Dave!
According to them, the only sure fire way to discover if in the highly unlikely event that a bottle has been overfilled is to remove the pipe from the regulator end, point it outside, open the valve and if the system is at its normal 80% capacity or lower then the gas coming out will be clear. If it has been overfilled it will come out as mist.

I'm happy at the moment that my problems were more than likely caused by a failing regulator. Ernie at gaslow confirms that many of these new wallmounted regulators have failed which i'm sure many of you will be aware of (more info in Dons thread >here< ) Gaslow are also in the process of manufacturing new woven stainless steel type pipes for connection from regulator to bottle because of the claims from Truma that 'plasticisers' coming off the standard hoses are the cause for these failures.
These new pipes are being launched at the NEC in February but they ain't cheap - £29.80 for a .45mtr - £32.85 for a .75mtr and £40 for a 1.5mtr.

Personally i'm not happy to pay that extra (i'd need two) for what is quite clearly either a truma or a gaslow fault depending on who you side with.

I think I'm going to buy another regulator and keep it as a spare, given the apparent high failure rate of these things. It will be a lot easier, especially while abroad to swop it myself rather than go through the hassle of finding and travelling to an authorised dealer.

I've tried the system several times over the past few days since collecting it from Brownhills and it has worked every time, so fingers crossed...

pete


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, On the point of smells coming from a C6002 Truma unit, we have been getting a burning smell from ours for a long while but it didn't fall into the recall list, However i rang Truma at Derby and expalined that while my unit wasn't on their recall list i was concerned about the burning smell and the chap who i spoke to suggested that if i was in the area i should bring the vehicle in and they would take a look at it, the end result was that when i took it to their offices/factory they i beleive carried out the full recall modification, the reason i say beleive is that we wen't allowed to stay and watch. but now i don't get any smells and the fan is so much quieter,

I would suggest if you are getting a burning smell don't worry about it being on the recall list ring them and ask for there advice ?


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