# Lying TV adds



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I have just seen an add on ITV for a better life and world if you fit a 'smart' meter.?
The only thing they are good for is doing without meter readers and raising bills.

Our old mechanical electric meter is over 25 years old and going strong. I wonder how long the 'smart' one will last before it has to be changed for an even smarter one.?

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We have just been compelled to have the new French meter it glows in the dark depending upon how much electricity you are using - "That's nice" seems appropriate......

Supposedly we will get accurate meter based bills with bills each month depending on that - in which case why are EDF still deducting EXACTLY the same amount each month by Direct Debit?

This one seems so complex that you need a degree in Gizmology in order to understand it...

They gave us TWO leaflets which are about as useful as a cat flap on a submarine....

That's called PROGRESS !

My GOM apron is now well worn..... and totally accurate......


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

My efd bills for the past 25 years have been exactly what I consume as every two months an automated e-mail asks the reading and I give it. It then sends a bill and is debited 2 weeks later. All very accurate. 
They have been trying to fit a smart meter since January and haven't managed it yet. But I dread them changing my EJP tariff surreptitiously as edf wants to stop this advantageous tariff.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> We have just been compelled to have the new French meter it glows in the dark depending upon how much electricity you are using - "That's nice" seems appropriate......
> 
> Supposedly we will get accurate meter based bills with bills each month depending on that - in which case why are EDF still deducting EXACTLY the same amount each month by Direct Debit?
> 
> ...


If the French meter change process is anything like the UK, EDF billing might not be aware that the change has occurred therefore your DD isn't changed. At the very least you should get a bill to date of removal of your old meter and notification of the opening reading on your new meter I would have thought.

I've worked 30 years in the electricity metering and billing arena and could write a book on the horror stories.

Terry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We are still waiting after 3 months....


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I had to submit to one because the best fixed price deal required it!
It's only for electric but I still can't see where the saving is....I used to take a reading, or a meter reader did, then I paid for what we used!?
I can only assume that they get the meters from a charity and the people that fit them are on free work placements therefore there is no cost to the customer?
I have seen it suggested that the flashing lights and extra radio waves are supposed to hypnotise and remove any common sense it finds in the occupants?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Neighbour next door and a holiday home was advised efd wanted to change her meter for a 'smart' one and gave a date. She came back to stay at the holiday home all last week. They eventually turned up a day late and after examination said can't be done? Something to do with her meter being outside, so they left. They could have don't mine at the same time but obviously can't organise things like that. Bunch of pathetic monkeys that we all pay for.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> We are still waiting after 3 months....


Time yet then. :wink2:

Our company provided expert billing staff to an English electrickery supply company to help sort their billing problems out, they found it quite normal for meter exchanges not having been processed correctly 12 months after they'd taken place.

For anyone having a meter exchange completed it's really advisable to make sure you get copies of the meter readings of the removed meter and the newly fitted meter.

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Agreed Terry. I plan on taking pics of the old and new meters. Plus the workmanship at the time. 

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

raynipper said:


> Neighbour next door and a holiday home was advised efd wanted to change her meter for a 'smart' one and gave a date. She came back to stay at the holiday home all last week. They eventually turned up a day late and after examination said can't be done? Something to do with her meter being outside, so they left. They could have don't mine at the same time but obviously can't organise things like that. Bunch of pathetic monkeys that we all pay for.
> 
> Ray.


Sounds like a good old nationalised industry practice Ray. >

We would have operated like that until we were privatised, after that efficiency kicked in with metering staff being issued with lists of potential changes in close-by post code areas.

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes I worked for SEEBOARD from 1956 to 1962 for slave wages called an apprenticeship.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

EJB said:


> I had to submit to one because the best fixed price deal required it!
> It's only for electric but I still can't see where the saving is....I used to take a reading, or a meter reader did, then I paid for what we used!?
> I can only assume that they get the meters from a charity and the people that fit them are on free work placements therefore there is no cost to the customer?
> I have seen it suggested that the flashing lights and extra radio waves are supposed to hypnotise and remove any common sense it finds in the occupants?


The cost of meter reading was by far the smallest portion of your bill, the main costs being generation followed by distribution.

As to meter costs, when an old electro-mechanical meter reached the end of its certified life we would have removed them and bench tested them on mass to recertify them for refitting, they're scrapped now as a new non-smart meter costs about £7.

The drive to fit costly £60-70 smart meters is government lead and designed to drive customer energy efficiency. The supply companies bear the cost of the meter and fitting and yes it's passed on to the customer via the 'supply companies' element of your bill.

The next range of Ultra Smart Meters will be able to check with all available suppliers for the best tariff deal for your usage, and automatically change your supplier........... may your gods help you all as no human will be able to. :surprise:

As to the flashing lights AND the internal listening device, having signed the Official Secrets Act, I can't possibly respond. :wink2:

Terry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

raynipper said:


> Yes I worked for SEEBOARD from 1956 to 1962 for slave wages called an apprenticeship.
> 
> Ray.


Ah, you would have been halfway to being a Meter Reader Ray, in our nationalised days, only carded electricians could apply for a Meter Readers job per the company union agreement. :grin2::grin2::grin2:

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I gather there are two ways the 'smart' meter transmits your consumption. One via 3G and two via the power lines.
We are lucky to get 2 bars of 2G so I guess our 'Linkey' meter will transmit via the power line.
https://www.enedis.fr/linky-communicating-meter

I wondered if I slapped two very strong magnets either side of the new meter if it might mess up the transmission and I would get my old meter back. But somehow can't see that happening.

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

raynipper said:


> I gather there are two ways the 'smart' meter transmits your consumption. One via 3G and two via the power lines.
> We are lucky to get 2 bars of 2G so I guess our 'Linkey' meter will transmit via the power line.
> https://www.enedis.fr/linky-communicating-meter
> 
> ...


Good try but no cigar Ray.

The magnets worked well on the old disc turning meters as they slowed the disc down, although they also weakened the internal magnet so when you took them off the disc spun faster as its brake effect was reduce. Not many people knew that. :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:

There's another old wives tale that a bag of sugar on the meter slows it down, I have witnessed such an attempt. :grin2::grin2::grin2:

The favourite was a six inch nail stuck through a hole drilled in the side of the meter to stop the disc. :surprise:

The telecoms version is the preferred fit as the PLC (power line carrier) system only works until the first substation when it is intercepted and then electronically transferred to a mainframe.

Terry


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi terry

was it not also possible to reverse the power and make the meter run backwards


barry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

powerplus said:


> hi terry
> 
> was it not also possible to reverse the power and make the meter run backwards
> 
> barry


Yes another well used method, we called it a 'black box' attachment. With basic knowledge a common battery charger could be converted into such a device, it was attached to the + input and output cables at the meter.

To counteract this meter manufacturers fitted a non reverse mechanism, a meter then depending on the build of the box, would either just stop or slow the meter advance. Folk often forgot to remove these devices before the reader called and were therefore caught red handed. Our readers would have at first immediately removed the box but they became so badly built and dangerous they reported them for a special RPU (revenue protection unit) visit. Saturday overtime reading was a good day to find these as they didn't expect the reader. :grin2:

Even those who did remove them were caught as attaching the box cables causes arcing and sunsequent tell tale burn marks on the backboard.

A novel story we had related to this was at the height of the troubles security forces were tipped off about a lot of suspected terrorist activity at a rural bungalow, on a early morning raid it was discovered to be an entrepreneur manufacturing, on a production line scale, black boxes for sale to the public, it was the volume of public buyers cars that kicked off the raid. :grin2:

Terry


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Smart meters were introduced to tell us, the consumer, how much energy each appliance used. It was hoped that we would alter our wicked ways and not boil the kettle or do the washing. When they first came out you could borrow one from the library and be suitably horrified at the cost of a cup of tea.
Once that information is absorbed then what is the point of a smart meter? We returned ours to the library and used the information it gave us to alter, or not, our behaviour when using electrical appliances. Why would we need to keep looking at it?

Can anyone tell me why this system, of borrowed smart meters, has been replaced with the hugely more expensive fitted system?


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

patp said:


> Smart meters were introduced to tell us, the consumer, how much energy each appliance used. It was hoped that we would alter our wicked ways and not boil the kettle or do the washing. When they first came out you could borrow one from the library and be suitably horrified at the cost of a cup of tea.
> Once that information is absorbed then what is the point of a smart meter? We returned ours to the library and used the information it gave us to alter, or not, our behaviour when using electrical appliances. Why would we need to keep looking at it?
> 
> Can anyone tell me why this system, of borrowed smart meters, has been replaced with the hugely more expensive fitted system?


It's a government scheme agreed with Supply Company's to roll out 50m smart meters by 2020.

As with most government schemes they have made a mess of it, only the lastest smart meters SMET2 communicate with a central body enabling all suppliers to access the data, the first meters SMET1 were supplier specific, meaning if you had one and changed supplier they may not be unable to get its data therefore it's a waste of space.

And guess who pays... yep you and me. :surprise:

A wise old guy at work explained that the smart meter will only drive consumer efficiency once we all find electricity costs really prohibitive. So if you can afford it you won't really care, a bit like car fuel costs rising but we still fill up the tank and drive !

Terry


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes, Terry, that is my point. 
Once we know how much it costs to boil a kettle we do not need the smart meter any more. So, why was the "borrow one from your library" scheme not adopted more widely rather than the huge expense of the current (sorry!) "fitted in your house" scheme?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Because it generates employment for fitters and the consumer pays....

Win - win for the Government.

Most people NEVER look at their meter and only have a wobbly when the bill arrives, there is a sharp intake of breath and "we must cut down" type statements which may well last 24 hours or until the children come home and insist on leaving every light possible switched on.....

We've been there...,


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

patp said:


> Yes, Terry, that is my point.
> Once we know how much it costs to boil a kettle we do not need the smart meter any more. So, why was the "borrow one from your library" scheme not adopted more widely rather than the huge expense of the current (sorry!) "fitted in your house" scheme?


Quite simple really, no one is going to make money with a borrowing scheme.

But in reality it isn't a proper 'smart meter' in terms of communication and that's what they're after, your data.

It's the comms that makes them smart as one way communicators now, but (coming to a town near you) two way comms could potentially allow remote disconnection for non payment, now they would really love that, so watch this space. :surprise:

Terry


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi terry

just a thought but not something i would do as not at home much anyway

i have a gigantic magneto magnet energizer to re charge magnets


in the past when i energized magneto magnets i found that any compass nearby got its polarity reversed


that might be fun with a old meter

barry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

In terms of metering technology it moves at a fast pace, before my retirement we ran test bed with a central home hub that gathered the data from a homes electric, gas and water meter, the hub then once a day fired up and sent the data to a laptop, it will happen one day.

Water companies are now using daily flow smart metering technology to help detect sudden flow increases to help with possible leak detection.
Electricity suppliers can use sudden drops in your usage to investigated illegal abstraction of electricity that's why your data is so useful.

Terry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

powerplus said:


> hi terry
> 
> just a thought but not something i would do as not at home much anyway
> 
> ...


:grin2::grin2: The only advice I would give is stand well back when you energise it :surprise::surprise::surprise:

Terry


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

terry

yes agree

it used to draw around 300A at 36v so doing it is not something i enjoyed i needed to make sure there was nothing steel nearby and watch out for flying spanners


barry


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

powerplus said:


> terry
> 
> yes agree
> 
> ...


The proper response is don't do it.

One of my RPU teams attended a commercial metering incident when an individual tried fitting a abstraction device to a 3 phase supply causing a fire and the eventual loss of his hand.

Don't mess with electric it kills !

Terry


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I was helping an old retired farmer friend out the other week with his bills and stuff. He hasn't a clue but he moved into a bungalow last May and in November moved to a smart meter. He reckoned he was paying too much but didn't even know who to cantact let alone get online to view a breakdown of the Bills.

Turned out they had based his bills on previous bills before the smart meter was put in but his old meter never worked and after some digging it seemed they had just totally guessed his consumption from May to November. I managed to get it reassessed on his current consumption and he got £250 back. Moral of the story I guess is just don't assume what your being billed is correct and in this case it would never have corrected itself.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

But surely the point of a smart reader is that it actually reads what you actually use??


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Exactly Jean, I suspect the error was his billing 'until date of removal' of the old meter, the only way the billing on his smart meter could have been incorrect was if the opening reading on that meter had been captured incorrectly as such meter exchanges requires manual capture of its opening reading, after that billing gets further actual readings via the comms link.

Terry


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Ah yes, I misread!


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## Gellyneck (Jun 23, 2014)

barryd said:


> Moral of the story I guess is just don't assume what your being billed is correct and in this case it would never have corrected itself.


 Despite sending photographs on 4 occasions and there being visits on 3 occasions by the gas suppliers inspector (or whatever they're called nowadays) the supplier (one of the big 6) "refused" to believe we have an metric meter! Oh no you don't 'cause the register says it's imperial. Oh yes we do 'cause here's a photo and a copy of the report from your inspector. Oh no you don't .........
So, after involving The Ombudsmen the supplier paid compensation (as did The Ombudsmen because they were poor in managing the process) and credited around about £1400 overpayment after arguing for nearly 18 months.
Obviously, we didn't stick around with the supplier but then had issues with the new supplier (one of the smaller guys) who said previous supplier had given them the old imperial meter serial (or whatever it's called) number. E-mailed photo to new supplier same day (Friday) and they requested a visit the following Monday to confirm. All fixed by the Tuesday! They then came and fitted a new meter about a week later as they said the digital display was getting difficult to read.

Smart meter? I think not! I'll tell them the readings every month then I know they've got the correct usage.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Gellyneck said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > Moral of the story I guess is just don't assume what your being billed is correct and in this case it would never have corrected itself.
> ...


Good advice, give them an opportunity to correct their error and if not sorted complain to the Regulator/Ombudsman, they have teeth and can kick ass in terms of fines and even threaten to take away the license to operate.

Terry


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