# Jump starter problem



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I eventually got my Noco GB70 jump starter (holdup due to supplier sourcing from Germany). I plugged it in to charge it up - it took over 60hrs!

The supplier said maybe it was a faulty lead (USB from both a 4.4A and a 2.1A) - according to manual USB charging should take a max of 7hrs.

However, since I've no need to use it ATM, how do I deplete the battery to test the alternative lead and, since that is to plug into a 12v socket how do I test that since the manual says it should take 2-3hrs? I presume I'd need to be driving to charge it up - not possible.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Use the USB out to power of charge other things. If you have any 12v chargers for phones or computers power those from the 12v outlet. I don't know if the power will be clean enough to run a computer, maybe you should ask the makers.

Have you a 12v compressor for your tyres? If you do run it for a while and it'll flatten the battery eventually. Only run a compressor for a minute or two at a time so it doesn't overheat.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm a little confused Jean. (OK).
So is it not charging from the mains to top up the internal batter? Or is it just like a transformer charger to 12v?
Sounds ever so complicated to just jump the van.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Here Ray: https://no.co/gb70


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks Alan. Looks far too complicated for a basic 12v vehicle. More suitable for powering a moon rocket.
I'm glad I didn't go down that route as somehow it seems incredible. Or maybe unbelievable. 

All the early and cheaper reserve power boxes that were bought a few years ago maybe three times the size, their batteries failed just when you needed to use them. Call me sceptical but somehow I can't see it doing what it says on the box.

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Use the USB out to power of charge other things. If you have any 12v chargers for phones or computers power those from the 12v outlet. I don't know if the power will be clean enough to run a computer, maybe you should ask the makers.
> 
> Have you a 12v compressor for your tyres? If you do run it for a while and it'll flatten the battery eventually. Only run a compressor for a minute or two at a time so it doesn't overheat.


Thanks Alan - why didn't I think of that?! 


raynipper said:


> ... their batteries failed just when you needed to use them. Call me sceptical but somehow I can't see it doing what it says on the box.
> 
> Ray.


I hope not!

I don't need it to jump-start 40 vehicles (or whatever) - just the one, if required!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

These were the ones that failed on a regular basis Jean. About £50 and people carried them around in the boot for years flat.
I must say I have no knowledge of yours.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think they need to be on charge all the time, the early ones were used wrongly, as you say flat in the boot, not designed to be carried about, maybe this one is, not looked at the link yet.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Well, you do have to charge them up from time to time!

I gave a friend a gift of an OTG charger as she was always complaining of her phone losing power. I happened to ask about it about a year later - oh, it takes forever to charge the phone, she says.

Turns out she had NEVER charged up the charger hahaha!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

https://no.co/media/nocodownloads/format/g/b/gb70_sell_sheet_4.22.2020_1.pdf


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If my rough calculation is right that 56 watt hour (quoted that way to make it sound large and or/to be incomprehensible) is around 4.7 amp hours. That, if I'm right, would probably turn a decent sized diesel engine for well under half a minute, assuming maybe 400 amps to turn it over. I think.

https://bellengineering.net/jump-starters/how-many-amps-do-i-need-to-jump-start-my-car/


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

erneboy said:


> If my rough calculation is right that 56 watt hour (quoted that way to make it sound large and *or/to be incomprehensible*) is around 4.7 amp hours. That, if I'm right, would probably turn a decent sized diesel engine for well under half a minute, assuming maybe 400 amps to turn it over. I think.
> 
> https://bellengineering.net/jump-starters/how-many-amps-do-i-need-to-jump-start-my-car/


When I was reading up before buying I noticed they suggested you leave the jump-starter connected for maybe 15mins to put some juice into the flat battery before attempting to start the engine.

I took it at face value that if it was 2000A and they said it would jump-start up to 6l diesel. Certainly the reviews are mostly positive.

I hope I never have to find out!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

jiwawa said:


> When I was reading up before buying I noticed they suggested you leave the jump-starter connected for maybe 15mins to put some juice into the flat battery before attempting to start the engine.
> 
> I took it at face value that if it was 2000A and they said it would jump-start up to 6l diesel. Certainly the reviews are mostly positive.
> 
> I hope I never have to find out!


If the info is correct then it will jump start vehicles which start without a lot of cranking. It can fire a short burst of considerable power. It just doesn't have the storage capacity to keep it up.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Fingers crossed. If all else fails there's always breakdown insurance!


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

OK, I depleted the NOCO by doing the following -
1. Charging phone overnight from 27% to full
2. Charging phone overnight from 35% to full
3. Charging Bluetooth headphones from empty
4. Charging phone overnight from 26% - but NOCO ran out of power when phone was just at 54%

Now, that doesn't seem a lot to me...

Then, when I charged up the NOCO again it took 29hrs (as opposed to the 60-70hrs of the 1st-time charge) but way in excess of the 7hrs advertised.

I'm thinking it's not fit for purpose - am I right?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

To be sure we'd need to know the battery capacities of each of the devices you charged to work it out. But it seems to be inadequate.

You will be able to test it's capacity by connecting a 12v bulb or two to it and running it till they go out. All you need to know is the wattage of the bulbs and how long it runs them for. I'd use a couple or three car headlight bulbs.

Or do you have a small inverter?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It doesn't sound comforting Jean. After all it's for emergencies???

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

erneboy said:


> You will be able to test it's capacity by connecting a 12v bulb or two to it and running it till they go out. All you need to know is the wattage of the bulbs and how long it runs them for. I'd use a couple or three car headlight bulbs.
> 
> Or do you have a small inverter?


I do have a 300w non-pure sine one as well as a 2000w pure sine wave tho I'm not sure that works. Can you point me to a YouTube video of what I need to do? 


raynipper said:


> It doesn't sound comforting Jean. After all it's for emergencies???
> 
> Ray.


Absolutely Ray - doesn't seem as if it would have the gumption to jump start the MH.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't know if there's anything on YouTube but it isn't difficult. Connect the small inverter to the power unit, being careful to get pos and neg correct and no to short it, then plug a table lamp with a bulb of a known wattage into the inverter. Time how long the light runs for.

You can assume 70% efficiency for your inverter, unless there's information on it to tell you otherwise. We'll be able to get a reasonable idea of how much power your device provided.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree with Alan, but also to me, charging via a USB lead does seem weak as those connections cannot deliver much current, which is presumably why it took 60 hours to start and then 29 hours after limited use.

It is not something that I would trust, particularly as you need it when everything else has failed....

Breakdown insurance would seem to me to be the better option, but you have that already thankfully.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks Alan, will have a go at that tomorrow.

Dave, that sounds right but the manual says it should take 7hrs on 2A, 28hrs on half an amp.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

So.... I attached a 7W bulb light to the NOCO (fully charged) via the 300W inverter. It went down to 3 bars (out of 4) after 1.75hrs.

I went out for a walk n by the time I returned after 1.25hrs the NOCO was down to 2 bars, the inverter was screaming, but the light was still on.

The NOCO has been half to three-quarters depleted by running the 7W bulb thro the 300W inverter for 3hrs. What is that telling me? 

I turned everything off but how do I now test how long the remaining 2 bars last?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Don't know Jean. I've just realised that I don't know how to translate the result you have at 240v into 12v so as to compare it to the info. the product leaflet gave.

Don't worry, plenty on here will know how to do that, and perhaps they'll tell me too.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

not me I'm afraid, but I'm confused that it's charged via USB, I think the max is about 2amps.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Seems your just going round the houses Jean and not achieving the initial goal. Have you discarded the Jump Leads idea.?

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Jump leads don't need charging, or maintaining! They will sit tucked away in a corner and are guaranteed to work. All you need is someone else to provide the jumpstart *IF* ever needed. Get a long set and the leisure battery would provide a jump start.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

7w at 240v is roughly .03 amps for 3 hours is roughly 1 amp hour.

The machine was claiming around 4.7 amp hours. Though it gave the info in watt hours which is unusual, Ah being the norm.

I'd say it isn't giving anywhere near what they claim. But wait for someone who's sure to comment. 

It may well start your van all the same. How well it holds it's charge will be important.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks folks. I'll hope for some more input before I make the decision whether to return it or not.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Have you tried to start the van with it yet? disconnect the negative terminal of course first.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

No I haven't - I assumed that, since the jump-start runs THRO the vehicle battery, and the battery is fully charged, that wouldn't tell me anything....?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Found this Jean: https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/dc-to-ac-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html

Put your figures in.

240v at 7w = .03 amps
= .66 amps at 12v according to the calculator.

So if it ran it for 3 hours you got 1.8Ah plus 30% or so you lost through the inefficiency of the inverter say around 2.3 to 2.5 Ah.

I think that'll give you 500amps for 15 seconds which should start your engine maybe 5 or 10 times. I think.

Where are all the electrical people?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

That's why I said to disconnect the negative Jean.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> That's why I said to disconnect the negative Jean.


Kev, you're speaking to a complete numpty here - do you mean disconnect the -ve on the battery now and leave the +ve connected then connect the leads of the jump-starter as normal? Doesn't sound right to me.

Alan thanks, I'll have a look later. Yes, I was wondering myself - where are all the electrical experts!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Us eggsperts are backing off now Jean as that machine you bought have confused the hell out of us all.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes Jean exactly that otherwise as you said it would start from the engine battery, this way its only the jump starter, but before you do that just check that it starts ok as normal, then disconnect.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> Us eggsperts are backing off now Jean as that machine you bought have confused the hell out of us all.
> 
> Ray.


I'm looking for the eggspert that understands this machine! Haha!

I was minded to return n go for the leads but I've remembered that I was also covering the situation where I might be parked on my own with no other vehicle about.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

jiwawa said:


> So.... I attached a 7W bulb light to the NOCO (fully charged) via the 300W inverter. It went down to 3 bars (out of 4) after 1.75hrs.
> 
> I went out for a walk n by the time I returned after 1.25hrs the NOCO was down to 2 bars, the inverter was screaming, but the light was still on.
> 
> ...


In an attempt to increase my knowledge (that wouldn't be hard!) can you tell me why the inverter was screaming? Is it because it hasn't enough juice to power the inverter or to power the 7W bulb?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Usually in my experience an inverter will whine when the input power (volts) drop below a safe workable level as you assumed Jean.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Did you try starting it yet Jean?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

jiwawa said:


> I'm looking for the eggspert that understands this machine! Haha!
> 
> I was minded to return n go for the leads but I've remembered that I was also covering the situation where I might be parked on my own with no other vehicle about.


Keep things as simple as possible.

Long jump leads from the leisure battery, or remove the LB to nearer the starter battery if ever required. Nothing to keep charged up, nothing to maintain, pretty much foolproof and minimal capital outlay.

There's always the option of breakdown insurance cover!


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

No I didn't try starting the MH Kev - reckoned I should tank it up again before trying that. When I turned the inverter on again there wasn't enough power in the NOCO to do so. Tho there was enough to put a top-up charge into an OTG charger and charge up depleted Bluetooth headphones.

Thanks for all suggestions. Think I'm gonna return....


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