# Engine-block protection down to -10C



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I am seeking advice,preferably from engineers who have had to deal with this situation ( winter temps down to -10 to -15C} - and answer for the consequences.

MH will be in Poland on EHU.

Obviously interior can be protected with small oil-filled rad.

Engine will obviously be filled with good dose of anti-freeze and turned over about once a week.

However my gut feeling is the engine-block would benefit from some form of minimal heating.

I seem to remember that for petrol cars one could plug-in a small heater into a spark-plug socket.

Is there the equivalent for an injector housing? (I am reluctant to disturb those)

What are alternatives?

No. It will not fit (at 3m high) in the garage.

Help please. No guesses required, just good solid practical experience.

Geoff


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

You could fit an Eberspacher Diesel water heater in the coolant circuit expensive but widely used on trucks, and you can also use it as supplementary heating for the MH.

curlyboy


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

why would you want to protect the engine, or even turn over once a week?

Provided that there is sufficient anti-freeze (but not too much either!) in the cooling system, there is no reason for any protection. And turning the engine over a short while without driving does more harm than good.

The only thing you should take care for is to fill up the fuel tank to the brim. And that the engine battery is either trickle-charged by the EHU, or fully charged and then disconnected.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

When we lived in Norway all vehicles had engine warming systems fitted into the engine block. These were then plugged into an electric socket and kept the engine warm making it easy to start in very cold mornings. They worked well in temps down to -20C. No details, but I am sure it would be easy to find and fit.

Dave


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## splitwagon (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't know much about road vehicle engine heaters, but I do know a bit about aircraft engine heaters (think Flying Wild Alaska off the telly).

A large selection available from this US site below (they have good UK dealers too). Obviously the electrical contact pad type are better than the blown air ones for our purposes:

www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/enginepreheaters.html

UK outlet:

www.lasaero.com

You just need to arrange 12V nominal power, which should be easy if you have EHU available.

You will probably notice that aeroplane components make Motorhome components look cheap.

Cheers

Split


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

dovtrams said:


> When we lived in Norway all vehicles had engine warming systems fitted into the engine block.


This is still common practice in the Nordic countries. However only useful if it is intended to start the engine every morning, after a cold night.

As long as the MH is just sitting on a site on EHU waiting for next spring, there is no need to warm the engine. Unless you expect temperatures below -35 degrees, maybe.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Gerhard
Could you please explain why we should fill the tank to the top ?
Thanks


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## hblewett (Jan 28, 2008)

I've no experience of this, but if it were me, I would also ask the base unit vehicle manufacturer - surely they must know what there engines are designed for and capable of doing?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Gerhard
> Could you please explain why we should fill the tank to the top ?
> Thanks


It reduces the chance of condensation forming on the exposed inner surface of the fuel tank and then contaminating the fuel.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Stanner said:


> ThursdaysChild said:
> 
> 
> > Gerhard
> ...


As far as I was told that is only after driving for the day, when the diesel has been warmed by the excess unburnt fuel returned to the engine. As it cools overnight you'll get condensation on the inside walls, so ideally you fill up in any diesel vehicle at the end of the day. But thats only a one off once parked? Any other issues in that respect? Other than driving further cos you have a full tank when you do start?! 

There are some block heaters on Ebay.com that seem to be a mains heater and pump in the coolant, and there have been some on UK Ebay from people who use vegtable oil, as that needs some heat to get it to the engine as far as I know, so they had one adhesive mains powered heat pad stuck to the fuel tank, and one on the block, enabling you to turn off the diesel supply and turn on the veg oil supply sooner than otherwise. I think.

Anyhow, maybe search veg oil conversion specialists for one?

Personally I think -15 with correct anti-freeze isn't an issue.

And I am an Engineer, but neither a washing machine or anything else mechanical so IMHO only


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Failing all else try what I saw done more than once when Truck engines stopped over night and froze up in Iran (can be 30+ below) in the seventies. Light two small fires using what wood you could get hold of, one under engine one under fuel tank.

Worked everytime :wink: 

Dick


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Bluecol protection down to -34.

Most antifreeze and coolant products on the market are ethylene glycol based with additives to prevent corrosion, lubricate seals and water pumps and aid in heat transfer to the coolant from the metal of the engine. Antifreeze coolant should typically be mixed with water at the ratio of one part antifreeze to one part water. This gives antifreeze protection down to minus 34 degrees and overheating / boil over protection up to 265 degrees. Do not use pure antifreeze in a cooling system without using at least 30 percent water in the mixture.

Most antifreeze coolant sold in recent years has been the traditional green coolant which has a life span of two to three years or up to 30,000 miles. Green antifreeze contains silicates, phosphates and borates as corrosion inhibitors to keep the solution alkaline. As long as the solution remains alkaline, corrosion is controlled and the cooling system is protected. Over time corrosion inhibitors are depleted and the corrosion protection is lost, therefore green antifreeze should be changed every two years.


Dave p


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Do as Dave says and change antifreeze.

Keep batteries charged up and drive about 10 miles every couple of weeks.

Ensure the handbrake is OFF

Ventilate the van on the occasional nice dry days.

Make sure no fabrics (cushions, curtains, seats) are against outer walls. Better still, prop up mattresses and seat bases (for ventilation).


1. DO NOT idle the engine...it polishes the bores, they work better under load.

2. Move somewhere warmer.


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## waz (Jan 5, 2008)

I lived in Hungary for 3 years with temps going down to -25 and never had a problem and don't know of anyone else having a problem. Got antifreeze from Tesco in Hungary that protected to -35. Motorhome was a 1989 Talbot based Hymer and car a Honda CRV.

Waz


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

sorry if this has already been mentioned in the thread

another reason to fill the diesel fuel tank on arrival means that you would have bought the local fuel which should have the required anti-gel additives for the local conditions ?



something else to possibly consider is your hand brake sticking '

people have been known to leave van in gear with handbrake off & wheels wedged if its on a level surface


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## park (May 16, 2005)

I used to spend the winters working in the middle of Sweden. Once it gets below -20 C it can get interesting but will be ok at the temps you mention. Make sure you fill the fuel tank with local fuel as that will be blended to suit the local conditions and that the engine oil is as specified by the base vehicle manufacturer for the expected temp. The Swedes like block heaters because it means the interior rapidly warms up but you have an internal heater for that. Are your tyres ok for these conditions.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

£200 for a new Kenlowe

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KENLOWE-H...258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4cfb17107a

£92 ,2 bids and 6 days remaining for an old Kenlowe

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenlowe-C...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231550df48

And my German is non-existant but this looks similar?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Standheizung...564330809?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35aeb47d39

I can't find any veg oil suppliers with the self adhesive heaters I've seen before  and the above seem to create running engine temperatures rather than just keep a chill off. Maybe you could just put a greenhouse heater under the sump? Or not bother


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> clipped..........And my German is non-existant


So is mine, but hopefully, >>this may help<<.

Cheers,

Jock.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Thank you!

I read on another one's details I'd found that a lower output like the German one is often used on emergency vehicles to provide a constant but lower level of heat, so maybe a better bet?


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