# a challenge to swift.



## chrisgreen

you will have a trade stand at the NEC end of this month,you vehicles should be prepared at thier best?
if i come onto you stand and find 10 build fault's,or ten fault's with the finish or 15 combination of both,will you give me the motorhome?
i have an eye for detail and will look in every nook and cranny.
i get to choose which vehicle.

chris


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## 96299

Sounds reasonable to me.

steve


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## nukeadmin

lol there isn't a manufacturer in the country that would take you up on that !
it all depends on what you clarify as a defect as well in the first place, some things are trivial to one person and a major flaw to another. Motorhomes are such complex beasts, you could prep a van for a show and after 100s of people have trawled in and out of a van issues may have occurred.

I have been in and out of a fair few vans at shows in my time, and many times seen flaws in all types of vans.

We have been through this time and time again, all manufacturers will have defects on vans, minor and major that may slip through QC at factory, but the dealers are the safety net and it is them that decide whether the overall impression of a new van is one of quality or not IMHO

Why so interested in Swift vans when you are an owner of an Elddis out of interest ?


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## chrisgreen

nuke you are bias for commercial reasons.
im not,infact i like swift motorhomes,and they are british not the base but the hab bit.
if you show something at a premier show your product should be up to premier standards.

chris


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## GerryD

Someone else trying to knock Swift, just because they raise their heads above the parapet by coming on this forum.
People who do this for no apparent reason are not worth the time.
Gerry


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## Briarose

GerryD said:


> Someone else trying to knock Swift, just because they raise their heads above the parapet by coming on this forum.
> People who do this for no apparent reason are not worth the time.
> Gerry


I agree Gerry, it is like here we go again time :roll: Swift post on here so lets have a go at them...........no wonder other manufacturers don't bother if Swift didn't post on here this type of topic wouldn't be even thought about.

Same old song.................just a different day :wink: :roll:


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## erneboy

As Nuke said, no manufacturer would take such a bet and anyway who would be the arbiter making a decision as to what constituted a fault. 

Swift are the only manufacturer who join in on here and they do it with some enthusiasm. I think they should be applauded for it rather than targeted in this way.

Alan.


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## dovtrams

I was going to comment, then I thought what a daft proposition. 

dave


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## chrisgreen

so if swift take it up,and i cant find fault would that not be good for swift when i come on here full of praise?
if i was the swift MD i would not take it up unless i was 100% sure my product meets the standard.
lets not forget new motorhomes cost ten's of thousands of pounds they should be right from the start.

if worried about this tread move it to the members bar.


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## Mike48

I opted for Swift partly because of their presence on here. My only gripe with them is that, at shows , they give their dealers estimated delivery dates that they know they are unable to meet. 

However, I would not expect any dealer to rise to the OPs challenge as it is unwinnable from the manufacturers standpoint as many faults can be subjective. It seems to me that the OP is making mischief for whatever reason and let's hope that this thread does not resurrect the dreadful anti-Swift exchanges in the past which were totally uncalled for.


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## nukeadmin

if you aren't targeting Swift in particular Chris then why challenge just them ?
Why not challenge the many other manufacturers or ALL of them, you targeted Swift because they are the ONLY manufacturer on ANY forum to be so accessible.

ALL manufacturers have issues, I have owned a German van and it had inherrent build issues that were known about and were widespread, but of course they don't get discussed on forums as no other manufacturer is so easily contacted 



> nuke you are bias for commercial reasons


you may think so Chris, but there are many forum discussions on MHF that take place around Swift (for the reasons already stated) and I don't partake in them and defend Swift then. If Swift are specified in posts such as yours whereby they are singled out because of their forum presence and the argument is flawed then of course I will join in.

If it were up to me we would have all the manufacturers here on MHF, but none of them are willing to do so (publicly at least) as it takes an inordinate amount of work in the background to do so, all these posts where Swift resolves things need dedicated personnel to sort things out.


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## chrisgreen

i will offer my challange to other manufacturer's at the show,just to be fair.

and to be fair swift's build quality is not the worst by far.
as i said i like swift.


chris


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## SwiftGroup

Chris,
Thanks for your Challenge unfortunately it isn't one we will be taking you up on,
Best wishes,
Andy


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## chrisgreen

i thank you for your reply swift, worth a try on my part.
i will talk with you at the show.
best wishes.
chris

mods could you now close this tread.
thank you
chris


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## Spacerunner

As this is in the form of a wager, what would the OP's stake be?

A contract to purchase a Swift motorhome?


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## chrisgreen

im up for that.


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## Briarose

chrisgreen said:


> i thank you for your reply swift, worth a try on my part.
> i will talk with you at the show.
> best wishes.
> chris
> 
> mods could you now close this tread.
> thank you
> chris


Why ask for it to be closed now ? if the challenge is to others............one thing I am 110% sure about you won't get a reply from any other manufacturer on a Sunday on here :wink: or I guess any other day of the week for that matter-enough said :lol:


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## iandsm

*challenge*

Tell you what, lets go round to the OP's house and inspect the last room he decorated. If anyone finds ten faults he has to sign over the house to them.
Any takers?


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## chrisgreen

but im not offering my house for sale as a product.
and i dont think my morgage company would go for it,do you?


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## chrisgreen

i will be looking at swifts as a buyer.i would look at elldis again but have nothing i like, seem to have stepped backwards design wise.
will not be looking at anything from oversea's.not as a buyer.
but will also look at narrow boats.


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## LisaB

:? Our fairly new 679 Kontiki hasnt been without a few odds and sods wrong, all of which we have corrected - no I agree you shouldnt really have to, but we have - our previous two vans (not Swift) had "teething troubles" which we sorted. In a previous time we had motorboats which cost a great deal more than the vans and guess what? - they had troubles too. Hand built items cannot be expected to be faultless.

I also know of Continental build vans that had troubles too!


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## chrisgreen

i have had seven boats all sold at a profit.
one i paid a pound for yes £1, spent about 1000 pounds doing it up sold it for 9500 pounds mostly work on the inboard engine.only owned it for three weeks.

chris


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## Sideways86

I dont see hymer or Burstner etc wanting a stupid challenge like that either and whats more they do not have a high profile on here.
At the last show I went into a 90K Burstner and trim was falling off it in many places. I didnt think what crap, I thought thousands of show people tramping through it.

yes I bought Swift and yes I have had problems and yes they have all been sorted quickly.

Ask me a bout my new range rover!! no dont even go there!


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## Rapide561

*Range Rover*

Oh go on, tell us abouve the Range Rover!

Russell


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## LisaB

All this seems to do is make out that those of us who have dared to buy Swift are "total muppets" to do so! You pay your money and you takes your choice, if you dont like dont buy....but dont put a downer on those of us who have 8O


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## weldted

*looking for fifth Swift*

We will be at the NEC looking to buy our fifth new Swift, I think that that is an unrealist challenge why only Swift, if you want Manufactures to have 100% fault free at shows, why have PDis at Dealers just put 50% on the price of each van to cover it. One persons idea of a defect might be another acceptable standard, just like different mot garages, I have had some faults with all my vans, it is the Makers efforts to put things right that counts, at Least Swift will enter into this forum and stand up and be counted.


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## gnscloz

crazy post easiest thing in the world is to criticise, i own a 2 year old swift and have no real issues,


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## LisaB

and by the way Chris - boat wise I am referring to 209k vessles not 9k with inherent warranty faults :x


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## gromett

As any dealer would be able to tell you, things go missing off motorhomes when displayed. Dishonest people will nick anything that is not screwed down (and some that are screwed down) So at a major show what are the chances of any Motorhome being 100% by the time you get to it?

I think Swift were correct to decline your offer, it was a no win one. Nothing to win for them and a motorhome to lose.

Karl


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## rayc

LisaB said:


> All this seems to do is make out that those of us who have dared to buy Swift are "total muppets" to do so! You pay your money and you takes your choice, if you dont like dont buy....but dont put a downer on those of us who have 8O


I have a similar feeling when the virtues of owning a Fiat X250 are discussed.


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## chrisgreen

i did not for one second think swift would take up my offer,come on who in their right mind would.
if they did i would have headed for the biggest and best swift on the stand as i had nothing to lose.
as i said worth a try.
nothing ventured nothing gained.

chris


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

gromett said:


> As any dealer would be able to tell you, things go missing off motorhomes when displayed.
> 
> Karl


Never mind the shows, they steal parts off vans on the forecourt as we are trusting and leave all ours unlocked during business hours for easy hassle free viewing.

Peter


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## greenasthegrass

Do they ever use the bogs Peter? saw one a few months ago and someone had!

What I wanna know is why do they always open the microwave door? is there something different inside every microwave?

Greenie :lol:


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## duxdeluxe

chrisgreen said:


> i have had seven boats all sold at a profit.
> one i paid a pound for yes £1, spent about 1000 pounds doing it up sold it for 9500 pounds mostly work on the inboard engine.only owned it for three weeks.
> 
> chris


... then I suggest that you stick to doing up boats. At that rate, £8500 profit every three weeks you could afford the biggest and bestest.

I do hope you declared your boat renovation profits to HMRC, as it may not have occurred to you that all sorts of people read forums from all walks of life and would be really interested.............

I just paid a sizeable sum for a new Mercedes estate car and the engine blew to bits on friday with a loud bang - even a premium German car is not bulletproof - but the telling thing is the customer service that goes with it. Swift are indeed "swift" to react positively most of the time (they are human beings not droids) and so are Mercedes who sorted a tow truck and a courtesy car (S-max to be changed tomorrow for a merc) within 40 minutes for me............

Nothing is perfect and the real value comes from the overall experience of the product. Not impressed that a car less than 3 months old should have such a major fault but very impressed with a manufacturer who gives a good back up to that product. That is why Swift is one of a few MH companies on my list for the next van (as are Dethelffs and Rapido)


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## LisaB

duxdeluxe said:


> chrisgreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have had seven boats all sold at a profit.
> one i paid a pound for yes £1, spent about 1000 pounds doing it up sold it for 9500 pounds mostly work on the inboard engine.only owned it for three weeks.
> 
> chris
> 
> 
> 
> ... then I suggest that you stick to doing up boats. At that rate, £8500 profit every three weeks you could afford the biggest and bestest.
> 
> I do hope you declared your boat renovation profits to HMRC, as it may not have occurred to you that all sorts of people read forums from all walks of life and would be really interested.............
> 
> I just paid a sizeable sum for a new Mercedes estate car and the engine blew to bits on friday with a loud bang - even a premium German car is not bulletproof - but the telling thing is the customer service that goes with it. Swift are indeed "swift" to react positively most of the time (they are human beings not droids) and so are Mercedes who sorted a tow truck and a courtesy car (S-max to be changed tomorrow for a merc) within 40 minutes for me............
> 
> Nothing is perfect and the real value comes from the overall experience of the product. Not impressed that a car less than 3 months old should have such a major fault but very impressed with a manufacturer who gives a good back up to that product. That is why Swift is one of a few MH companies on my list for the next van (as are Dethelffs and Rapido)
Click to expand...

Profit in boats there's a new one for me!..........................................................


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## bigbazza

> Never mind the shows, they steal parts off vans on the forecourt as we are trusting and leave all ours unlocked during business hours for easy hassle free viewing.
> 
> Peter


 Hey thanks for that Peter what a good idea


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## Briarose

LisaB said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chrisgreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have had seven boats all sold at a profit.
> one i paid a pound for yes £1, spent about 1000 pounds doing it up sold it for 9500 pounds mostly work on the inboard engine.only owned it for three weeks.
> 
> chris
> 
> 
> 
> ... then I suggest that you stick to doing up boats. At that rate, £8500 profit every three weeks you could afford the biggest and bestest.
> 
> I do hope you declared your boat renovation profits to HMRC, as it may not have occurred to you that all sorts of people read forums from all walks of life and would be really interested.............
> 
> I just paid a sizeable sum for a new Mercedes estate car and the engine blew to bits on friday with a loud bang - even a premium German car is not bulletproof - but the telling thing is the customer service that goes with it. Swift are indeed "swift" to react positively most of the time (they are human beings not droids) and so are Mercedes who sorted a tow truck and a courtesy car (S-max to be changed tomorrow for a merc) within 40 minutes for me............
> 
> Nothing is perfect and the real value comes from the overall experience of the product. Not impressed that a car less than 3 months old should have such a major fault but very impressed with a manufacturer who gives a good back up to that product. That is why Swift is one of a few MH companies on my list for the next van (as are Dethelffs and Rapido)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Profit in boats there's a new one for me!..........................................................
Click to expand...

I hear that there is a cheap one for sale in Wetherfield :wink: now how did he do that one up so quick :?: he didn't go overboard spending on it :lol:


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## joedenise

may be i'm stupid or something but to spend £80/£90 thousand on something and not expect it to be perfect seems odd to me.
its got to be down to quality control, not pdi but every thing tested propertly before it leaves the factory.
not a dig at swift but all of them
but reading some of the comments it appears that people expect problems with their new vans.

Joe


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## chrisgreen

didnt pay tax on profit,and i am more aware than most who moniters these forums.
why would i want to do up boats there is no profit in it ,ask lisaB.
:lol:


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## chrisgreen

no joe you are not stupid at all i think you are spot on. its the other posters that are missing the point.


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## chrisgreen

I just paid a sizeable sum for a new Mercedes estate car and the engine blew to bits on friday with a loud bang - even a premium German car is not bulletproof - but the telling thing is the customer service that goes with it. Swift are indeed "swift" to react positively most of the time (they are human beings not droids) and so are Mercedes who sorted a tow truck and a courtesy car (S-max to be changed tomorrow for a merc) within 40 minutes for me............ 


now i did chuckle at this post.

my wifes job.
customer service manager for mercedes.

chris


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## RichardnGill

joedenise said:


> may be i'm stupid or something but to spend £80/£90 thousand on something and not expect it to be perfect seems odd to me.
> its got to be down to quality control, not pdi but every thing tested propertly before it leaves the factory.
> not a dig at swift but all of them
> but reading some of the comments it appears that people expect problems with their new vans.
> 
> Joe


I have said this before, I work in to Bus and Coach industry and you want to see some of the snag list on new vehicles costing over 250k each in some cases. Both the base vehicle and the body give many problems.

So it is not just Motorhomes, I guess anything that has a lot of manual labour in its construction will have some problems.

In some of the big fleets the manufacture has people on site for many months after they have received a delivery of vehicles to ensure warranty work is completed quick.

Richard...


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## chrisgreen

i worked in the building industry for thirty years building houses selling for up to one million.you should have seen some of the snaging list we used to get.eye watering.

one i will never forget was walking into a new house and counting 473yellow postit notes each with its own message stuck all over the house.lol

chris


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## Pat101

chrisgreen said:


> i worked in the building industry for thirty years building houses selling for up to one million.you should have seen some of the snaging list we used to get.eye watering.
> 
> one i will never forget was walking into a new house and counting 473yellow postit notes each with its own message stuck all over the house.lol
> 
> chris


I wonder what the message was, pay the bloody invoice you sods.


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## GerryD

greenasthegrass said:


> What I wanna know is why do they always open the microwave door? is there something different inside every microwave?
> 
> Greenie :lol:


I always open the microwave to see if it is easy to remove. Biggest waste of space ever thought of.
Gerry


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## GerryD

chrisgreen said:


> i worked in the building industry for thirty years building houses selling for up to one million.you should have seen some of the snaging list we used to get.eye watering.
> 
> one i will never forget was walking into a new house and counting 473yellow postit notes each with its own message stuck all over the house.lol
> 
> chris


And you dare to criticise the motorhome industry when you admit to so many faults on a house that you have built. Until you are able to build a house with no snaglist I would suggest that you stop finding fault with others.
Gerry


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## chrisgreen

didnt build them??
someone get out the wrong side of bed this morning,or is it the monday blues???


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## GerryD

chrisgreen said:


> didnt build them??


Your words were "i worked in the building industry for thirty years building houses"
So is this statement not correct?
Gerry


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## sallytrafic

Taking the proposition that any motorhome that had been prepared for an exhibition might still have many visible faults as Chris seemed to be banking on and others have agreed upon - what does this say about the industry.

To those that say it is a complicated thing, I say, nonsense, its very uncomplicated in systems terms and anyway the sort of faults that might be around in the heart of systems are unlikely to show up in functional checks or surface appearance.

I still think what causes all the problems is too much choice. Models are forever changing to catch the eye and people want all sorts of optional features. The result is that many of the vans are practically one-offs and we who have an engineering background know the teething troubles of prototypes. The whole scenario dooms motorhome manufacture to be a cottage industry.

PS I've decided to put a link to my competition on every post I do >Here it is<


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## chrisgreen

so,should manufacturer's display item's with faults???

so gerry going by what you post,i have never been a mp so i cant criticise
the government????????
im not a motorhome builder so i cant criticise motorhome builders??????

chris


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## Pudsey_Bear

chrisgreen said:


> i like swift motorhomes,and they are british
> chris


I'd just like to say on behalf of the Swift group, that I think it is absolutely disgusting that anyone can come on here and say such nasty things about a company, as in the above comment.

I hate Swift, now Thats praise apparently, in this topsy turvy world.

Kev.


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## chrisgreen

kev n liz lol :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Gavel

*Swift errors.*

Chris. For someone who has an eye for detail there are nine grammatical errors in your post.


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## PlanetGen

Fair play to Swift, I dont own one but I really really want one. The new Kon-tiki is so sexy!


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## chrisgreen

*Re: Swift errors.*



Gavel said:


> Chris. For someone who has an eye for detail there are nine grammatical errors in your post.


only nine?
i must be getting better.

chris


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## LisaB

I/we love our van - and so I am off this thread! Sorry.............. I cannot hear our lovely van badmouthed anymore.............................As I have said before vote with your legs/wallet but dont call the rest of us idiots for choosing what suited us! :roll:


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## chrisgreen

LisaB said:


> I/we love our van - and so I am off this thread! Sorry.............. I cannot hear our lovely van badmouthed anymore.............................As I have said before vote with your legs/wallet but dont call the rest of us idiots for choosing what suited us! :roll:


does this mean you hate you van?im confussed now :?


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## Gavel

*Swift laugh*

I've got to give it to you Chris. I love your sense of humour.


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## Briarose

*Re: Swift laugh*



Gavel said:


> I've got to give it to you Chris. I love your sense of humour.


Aw is that what it is :roll: I would never have guessed.


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## chrisgreen

*Re: Swift laugh*



Gavel said:


> I've got to give it to you Chris. I love your sense of humour.


and that is just what it is,humour.


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## duxdeluxe

RichardnGill said:


> So it is not just Motorhomes, I guess anything that has a lot of manual labour in its construction will have some problems.
> Richard...


Now there's a good point. We are conditioned nowadays to expect things to be completely fault free from cars (my merc excepted!) to washing machines etc etc. The reason that they are so inherently reliable is the fact that a lot of it is untouched by human hand and robotic assembly reduces tolerances and errors and thus increases overall quality.

Even the mega motorhome builders build their product by hand with limited automation and as soon as the human is involved the inconsistency rises and so do the faults. Anyone remember the Maxi and the Marina? I'm willing to bet that if someone could automate the MH coachbuilding at an economic cost then faults would simply fade away............ just a thought.


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## Empgamer

Must admit, we are in the market for a new MH. Rapido is topping the list for us at the moment mainly because they do some superb layouts and because we can get what we want on a Merc chassis.

That said I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the Kontiki 669 and am really tempted. If I was to buy British it would be Swift and most likely from John Cross, albeit many dealers are closer. If Swift do a LHD 669 I might be very tempted. I just like the comfortable look and lines of the Lowline version. It would have to be auto though.

We looked at Hymer first off but oddly they don't seem to do ANY island bed layouts. REALLY strange.


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## Wupert

Empgamer said:


> Must admit, we are in the market for a new MH. Rapido is topping the list for us at the moment mainly because they do some superb layouts and because we can get what we want on a Merc chassis.
> 
> That said I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the Kontiki 669 and am really tempted. If I was to buy British it would be Swift and most likely from John Cross, albeit many dealers are closer. If Swift do a LHD 669 I might be very tempted. I just like the comfortable look and lines of the Lowline version. It would have to be auto though.
> 
> We looked at Hymer first off but oddly they don't seem to do ANY island bed layouts. REALLY strange.


I see you live in Carmarthenshire

Lee & Turner in Bridgend 3m off the M4 are top quality Swift dealers.

They give a good part ex top quality after sales also for any Swift warranty work Carafit in Crosshands are exceptional.

Driving to a dealer so far away is a total no no in my book especially when we have top quality on our doorstep

Lee & Turner are also Fiat dealers so you have a double bonus if problems arise with the base vehicle.

Wups (Swansea)


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## Mick757

duxdeluxe said:


> RichardnGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it is not just Motorhomes, I guess anything that has a lot of manual labour in its construction will have some problems.
> Richard...
> 
> 
> 
> y.
> 
> Even the mega motorhome builders build their product by hand with limited automation and as soon as the human is involved the inconsistency rises and so do the faults..
Click to expand...

Thats it in a nutshell. Genuine mistakes - that shouldnt really hapen that often. And 'forced' errors, due to time constraints and corner-cutting. The big companies wont be giving the workforce too much time to fit-out these vehicles, so 'snags' are virtually guaranteed. Id guess you are only going to see true quality by buying from the smaller converters/builders, who HAVE to get it right every time, because they cannot afford bad press in any form.

On a personal note, ive been going through my first van from end to end. Ive found what i percieve to be 'faults' - 'fix's that im not happy with - that have been there from new. I think ive improved upon them - which patently wernt worth bothering with by the manufacturers. But, two previous owners have either lived with, or not found them. Each to our own!


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## Wupert

Mick757 said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RichardnGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it is not just Motorhomes, I guess anything that has a lot of manual labour in its construction will have some problems.
> Richard...
> 
> 
> 
> y.
> 
> Even the mega motorhome builders build their product by hand with limited automation and as soon as the human is involved the inconsistency rises and so do the faults..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats it in a nutshell. Genuine mistakes - that shouldnt really hapen that often. And 'forced' errors, due to time constraints and corner-cutting. The big companies wont be giving the workforce too much time to fit-out these vehicles, so 'snags' are virtually guaranteed. Id guess you are only going to see true quality by buying from the smaller converters/builders, who HAVE to get it right every time, because they cannot afford bad press in any form.
> 
> On a personal note, ive been going through my first van from end to end. Ive found what i percieve to be 'faults' - 'fix's that im not happy with - that have been there from new. I think ive improved upon them - which patently wernt worth bothering with by the manufacturers. But, two previous owners have either lived with, or not found them. Each to our own!
Click to expand...

Its been mentioned before

I'm really pleased nay absolutely delighted that the Aircraft builders and servicer's get it right.


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## RichardnGill

Empgamer said:


> Must admit, we are in the market for a new MH. Rapido is topping the list for us at the moment mainly because they do some superb layouts and because we can get what we want on a Merc chassis.
> 
> That said I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the Kontiki 669 and am really tempted. If I was to buy British it would be Swift and most likely from John Cross, albeit many dealers are closer. If Swift do a LHD 669 I might be very tempted. I just like the comfortable look and lines of the Lowline version. It would have to be auto though.
> 
> We looked at Hymer first off but oddly they don't seem to do ANY island bed layouts. REALLY strange.


Cranhams have a LHD 2009 Kon Tikki 679 in, same as a 669 but without the island bed, but you get more space and a big garage. We much preferred this layout over the island bed that is why we bought one.

LINK


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