# Advice on caring for a brain damaged dog gratefully received



## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Our two year old Miniature Schnauzer went into hospital 10 days ago for an operation to correct a liver shunt (blood vessel bypassing the liver) but tragically had a cardiac arrest under anesthetic even before surgery had begun. Despite defibrillation etc it was nearly 15 minutes before they were able to get the heart started again and there has been brain damage. We got her home on Tuesday and presently she is unable to see, hear or stand. We are giving her a lot of stimulation and physiotherapy but not yet seeing any improvement - although she did improve over the first week after the heart attack. She is in no pain or discomfort and is aware when people are cuddling her. She is not chewing so we are having to feed her liquidised food but she does lap water out of a bowl on her own. She indicates by kicking her legs when she wants to be taken outside to go to the toilet. Her eyes respond to bright lights and when asleep her legs are often "running".

Has anyone any experience of anything similar? If so how long can it take for any improvement? Alternatively how long before one has to presume that no improvement is going to happen? If she was in any pain or discomfort then our decision would be easy but at the moment we are in no-man's land. The vets we have seen have not been able to give us much guidance, probably because it is such a difficult matter to assess. 

If anyone has any experience of anything similar or any advice then I would be very grateful.

Peter


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So sorry to hear of your dog's heart attack. I have no experience of what you are going through other than that of nursing elderly pets.
I do know, therefore, how hard it is to watch them and not be able to help them.
Did a referal practice perform the operation? if so do they have a neurology department you could discuss things with?

If they are not neurology experts could they refer you on to someone who is?

The only thing that springs to mind that might help is hydrotherapy but it may be too early for this to help.

I do hope that you are able to help your dog back to a full recovery. Most vets find it difficult to discuss the alternative so do bring it into the discussion if it is worrying you so that they can be honest with you.

Best wishes.

Pat


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## Oscarmax (Mar 3, 2011)

We have 2 Miniature Schnauzer age 6, Oscar and Max, if you just be there and give them assurance they will slow respond, after a while she will slowly recover, but probably not too her full self.

I have sent you a PM


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

I can relate to what you are going through. Murphy, one of our cats, got his head jammed in a slamming door as a kitten. This resulted in similar brain damage and he was out cold for nearly 3 weeks. Through time, he improved - it took nearly a year before he was as right as he would ever be. Sight, hearing and ability to walk came back in stages. After that episode, he always walked with a slight lean to the left, but enjoyed life until the ripe old age of 14 years.

He even got into more scrapes and must have lost most of his 9 lives over those years. The other cats treated him as an amiable bumbling friend (which is what he was to us all) and never fought him.

Give your dog all the love, care and attention you can, and you might just be amazed how he recovers, knowing you are there and loving.

Colin


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Sorry Peribro not good news  
I am sorry again for what I am about to say  
Not to be able to see, or hear is terrible and is no quality of life and no matter how much cuddling you give, I doubt your pet will be able to understand what is/has happened.
I would think long and hard!  
Not a easy decision


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## Tringy (May 1, 2005)

Hi Peribro
So sorry to hear about your little dog but I hope she gets better soon. We had a Blue Merle that had a severe stroke at 13 and everyone told us we were mad not to have her put to sleep as she couldn't walk or eat on her own. The vet said only time, rest love and care would be the healer as no medication for this. I syringe fed her for 3 weeks also with fluid as she couldn't drink. We carried her into the garden for a wee and had to put her on the ground and hold her lead to guide and steady her while she was weak and all over the place. My husband carried her upstairs to bed every night and also down in the morning. Her eyes were going from side to side non stop the vet said there was some brain damage, but slowly she recovered over a period of 8 weeks with only a slight improvement daily and sometimes going backwards. After 4 months we reckon she was back to 85% of her own self but with a permanent tilt of the head. If she didn't have that you would never have known what she had been through. After 1 year she had a mini stroke and because I knew how she had been the first time I did the same again and she also recovered from that to. She had a couple more the beginning of this year and in October this year at the ripe old age of 17 she had another severe stroke and we eventually had to put her to sleep as I really don't think that she would have recovered from this one.
We know we could so easily have given up on her that first time 4 years ago but are really glad we persevered, we also continued to go away with her in the motorhome even taking her to Spain. We both had bikes and invested in a dog buggy from Ebay which is the best thing that we did so she was always with us.
I really hope she improves as like you said if she is not in pain then there is always some hope.

Try and have a Happy Christmas xx


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

I can offer no advice other than to put the dog first, consider what pain she may be in, what quality of life etc etc. Not easy I know but you really have to do what's best for her, not for you if you see what I mean.
I would also doubt if an average vet would have much of a clue what the prognosis might be so I would seek specialist advice if it is available.
Good luck with whatever you decide, I hate to see any animal, bird etc suffering, even worse when they are part of the family.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

motormouth said:


> I can offer no advice other than to put the dog first, consider what pain she may be in, what quality of life etc etc. Not easy I know but you really have to do what's best for her, not for you if you see what I mean.


I agree with you about quality of life. If we knew that she was not going to improve then we wouldn't hesitate in the decision. However if there is a chance that she can improve so that she can lead a life with reasonable quality, then we will happily care for her for as long as that takes. Fortunately she is not in any pain although this morning she was getting distressed as she was trying without success to stand. It was distressing to see her upset at here failure to stand but reassuring to see that she is trying to.



motormouth said:


> I would also doubt if an average vet would have much of a clue what the prognosis might be so I would seek specialist advice if it is available.


Agreed - she was seen daily by a neurologist for the first week and the advice is that she may or may not improve, only time will tell. The $64,000 question is how long! I guess it will become obvious to us one way or the other at some point although my instinct is to persevere for as long as possible if there is any chance.


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Your last remarks sums it up for me. I think I/we would do exactly the same in your situation. 
Again, best of luck and we hope for a happy outcome.


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

The one great advantage your little dog has is that she is young. Nobody really knows how much improvement there will be after brain damage to either animals or humans, but the younger the person or animal, the more likely improvement will come.

Our first beloved dog, Fudge, had a lovely healthy life for 17 years. Then one morning when we got up, she had gone completely blind - no idea why. She was terribly distressed, we couldn't stop her shaking, and we had to make the difficult decision to put her to sleep. Our vet agreed; he said a young dog might adapt to blindness or another disability, but that this was unlikely in an elderly dog.

On the other hand, one of our sons has a cat that had a stroke. She was about 5 then. She could do very little for herself, and fell over when she tried to walk, though she could eat if you hand fed her, and she didn't seem distressed or in any pain. The vet recommended she be put down, and our daughter in law was very upset and asked us and our daughter (who is a doctor) for advice. We all said to try for a couple of weeks, and as long as the cat wasn't distressed, there might be some improvement. Our daughter also recommended keeping a diary with notes on the cat's movement, feeding etc.

I'm glad to say that the cat's condition did improve, though it took almost a year to get back to almost normal, and the vet did prescribe some medication to help her balance. The only lasting problem was that her head was tilted to the left all the time. She lived to be 17.

So only time will tell. If your dog is not distressed or in pain, try doing what you can for the next month, but keep an honest record of her condition. If there is no improvement at all after a month, you may need to consider your options.

I do wish you the very best of luck. Linda


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

I would say if your vet wasnt a referral which being a shunt they should have been as not many first opinion vets would do a shunt.

There are good referral around who do neurology some that spring to mind are l would trust my animal to any of the ones l have posted.

There are others about who would do but l dont know as much or heard as much. If it was heart l would say only one person in the country Mike Martin http://www.martinreferrals.com/ but he is only heart which is secondary to your problem and the others l have mentioned are multi discipline and all have neurology and good overall reputations.

http://www.willows.uk.net/

www.aht.org.uk/

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-referrals/

http://vetspecialists.co.uk/Home.htm

http://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co.uk/

As to when to call it a day hard one she will from sound of things have multi problems going on l am guessing so you really need a multi team and have to say it wont be cheap but it is really the only way. It sounds like liver heart and neurology all need to be involved in ongoing care and treatment. I know that several l have posted are a trek but it is worth it.

Your vet should refer you when you ask to be sent on to .... if you choose one of the ones l have mentioned. The vets will all be open 24/7 over xmas and new year l would say sooner you get in there the better rather than leave it.

Hope it can help if you want to message me anytime please feel free and if l can help l will... Caro


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Just as a by the way have you used a towel under her to help her to stand granted she can not walk but may just help her mentally even for a few seconds stand up. 

And try to put her in sternal position not just lying on her stomach not her side (often they get less stressed) may need to prop her up and a pillow under her head. Dont forget if she is lying on her side keep her turned ever 3 hours, usually at work we do 2 but can go up to 4 if need be however 3 is a bit easier at home.

I grabbed this off the net to give a better idea as my description wasnt good and not sure if you didnt know what l meant if it would make sense.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Sad to hear if your problem peribro 

Vets give very little away when they are unsure

We went weeks uncertain about Shadow as the vet felt he had lost too much bowel to absorb his food

He is now back to full weight, a bit over actually, requires a special home cooked diet and will always be loose in spite of special powders

The truth is you will know when you feel that it is time to let him go. And if there is no pain then you can afford to give him time, 10 days is not long
Really hoping that things will work out

Aldra


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Was wondering how things are going?


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hmm.

When you have a pet sometimes you have to make the hard decision..

Our Cocker Spaniel used to have trouble with infections in her floppy ears when she got older, and wouldn't let you near her to bathe them without a fight, we had to wrap her in a towel to have any chance of cleaning them without getting bitten..

So the upshot was the infection got to her brain which over a two day period made it so she couldn't walk, see or hear, so she had to have the injection, this was two weeks after my dad who lived with us at the back end died. 
Spud her nickname allowed me to pick her gently up and nurse her as we went to the vets, she had the injection and died in my arms.. This was Christmas eve. :roll: .. Great Crimble that year.

The next year Sandra's younger sister died of a heart attack aged 48, yes Christmas Eve

When you take on a pet you also take on the responsibility of having to make the decision that is the kindest to your pet.

Make it.


ray.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

If we knew that she wasn't going to recover sufficiently to permit a reasonable quality of life then we wouldn't hesitate in taking the humane course of action. The difficulty though is not knowing whether and to what extent she will recover. We have therefore decided to see if she can recover sufficiently to give herself an acceptable quality of life. So long as she continues to improve then we will continue to nurse her. Pleasingly she can now just about stand and walk a few steps. She is eating properly again and is aware of her surroundings although her sight and hearing haven't yet come back. Each day brings further improvements so we obviously remain hopeful. It has been fortunate that all this has happened over the Christmas holiday period as my children have been able to help with her. They are back at school next week so it will be more challenging unless she has made further improvements. My thanks to all for their advice and support. Peter


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Glad to hear she is making progress Peter.


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## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

It can sometimes amaze you how things can improve with time and mother nature.

Our cat was run over by a car when she was four and had extensive injuries, which included damage to her spine causing urinary and fecal incontinence. 

The vet (who was excellent) said if things didn't improve over the first couple of weeks it was likely she would be permanently incontinent.

No improvement the first few weeks (vet said a lot of owners would have put her to sleep at that point) but we persevered, her spine recovered and she did regain control of her bladder and bowels. She's now 17 and apart from a broken tail with no feeling in it she's very happy and still going strong.

Time can be a great healer sometimes.
Good luck.


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

So glad to hear about the improvements. As we said before, do try to keep a diary, so you can see just how much improvement there has been.

With your children back at school, will this mean having to leave the dog alone sometimes in the day? If so, try to leave her with things that smell and feel familiar (the jumper you wore last, for example).

Also, unless you are quite sure she has no hearing, leaving a radio on low tuned to speech radio (eg radio 4) might well be a comfort for her.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Easyriders said:


> So glad to hear about the improvements. As we said before, do try to keep a diary, so you can see just how much improvement there has been.
> 
> With your children back at school, will this mean having to leave the dog alone sometimes in the day? If so, try to leave her with things that smell and feel familiar (the jumper you wore last, for example).
> 
> Also, unless you are quite sure she has no hearing, leaving a radio on low tuned to speech radio (eg radio 4) might well be a comfort for her.


Thanks for the further good ideas. Understandably she is relying enormously on her sense of smell (we notice her sniffing in the air far more) but we think she may just be starting to hear things faintly although not sure. Even today has seen great strides. Whilst yesterday she had just started standing and taking a few unsteady paces, today she been out in the garden with a harness and lead on and running at a fair speed - although a strong tendency to run in clockwise circles. I suspect this is due to which side of her brain has suffered the most but I was encouraging her to run in anti-clockwise circles as well.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

peribro 

great  

Give her time, animals are so resilient

To look at Shadow now you would never know the whole of his intestines fell out and a lot had to be amputated

back now to an insufferable pain in the neck

A control freak :lol: 

Aldra


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Yes you do suspect correct and glad things are gradually improving


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So pleased that you are seeing such improvement


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

So glad improvements are becoming so obvious  

Sue


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi,

Just read this post, I am so glad to read that she is improving with the attention and help you are giving her.

I hope she makes a full recovery or as near as damn it, and you need congratulating / thanking yourself for giving her the chance to recover, it says a lot about your character.


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## LisaB (Apr 24, 2009)

From my little schnauzers to yours! God bless you for the courage of your convictions and long may the improvement to continue 

Tough little nuts schnauzers 

Love fromcharlie and daisy schnauzer xxxx


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Glad to hear that she is making progress. May it increase in leaps and bounds now. Best wishes.


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## Dill (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi Peribo I am over the moon the little girl is making progress, and here's hoping she will pull through it. 

My Very Best Wishes

Dill


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## GypsyRose (May 9, 2005)

Aren't dogs wonderful?!! The very, very best of luck, your dog is doing brilliantly!!


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

So pleased she is improving.


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

*hi*

you are amazing sticking by the little dog, I know we have to take on the role of decision maker in their lives and sometimes the hardest decisions have to be made

However light and tunnel spring to mind, even if is only a glimmer and long as your little friend isn't in any pain or discomfort and you can see progress in her, stick with it.

I have had the pain several times of loosing dogs 17 & 18 my last two were.

I am feeling every step and if I could help in anyway I would

May god look after the little one and wish her every luck!


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hi Peribro
Just seen this thread, really hope there is more improvement and she eventually makes a full recovery. 

Paul.


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## Dill (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi Peribro, hows she doing now.

Dill


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