# The 'flu jab.



## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

I've just emailed my GP in order to refuse the 'flu jab. Here's why.

During a trip in my van to Tenby in May last year, I had a vile sore throat. On arriving home, my feet and hands became very cold and felt as if they had been stung by nettles. One day later, my hands and feet were tingling and I had to wear gloves as my hands were still very cold and were extremely sensitive. Jennifer took me to my GP. He didn't know what was ailing me. The next day I couldn't walk! Jen took me to the outpatients clinic at my local hospital and the duty GP there diagnosed Guillain Barre Syndrome.
I was immediately admitted and stayed in hospital for 8 nights. I couldn't walk at all, paralysed.
The neurologist confirmed a MILD case of GBS.
It is now seventeen months later and I consider myself 95% back to normal. I can now walk, jog, swim and use a pen again, but I still experience a tingling sensation in my hands and feet.

If you are considering the 'flu jab, you may want to read this first.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

What has this to do with the flu jab?..

Nobody knows what triggers it, it could be anything and the chances of getting flu is a lot more than this ailment as bad as it was for you.

ray.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi GG222

Very glad you are almost recovered, and with the greatest sympathy for your misfortune, I hope our members will not be frightened by your post.

If you caught the disease in May it seems unlikely that it could be linked to a flu jab, which you may or may not have had :?: the previous Autumn.

*My concern is the irresponsible scaremongering by the Daily Mail, who never allow the facts to get in the way of a good scare story!!*

Worried members should note several factors, including :--

1). The article you refer to was in the Daily Mail, so it must be 100% accurate. :roll:

2). It was published on 15th August 2009

3). It concerned a Swine Flu vaccine used many years earlier in the US - not the normal annual flu jab used in the UK.

4). Quote - _"It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976."_

5). Quote - _"25 people died . . . . More than 40million Americans had received the (Swine Flu) vaccine by the time the programme was stopped after ten weeks."_ That's a 1 in 1,600,000 chance of getting it then.

6). A comment from the Association of British Neurologists says, _"However, it is thought that one in a million people who have a seasonal flu vaccination could be at risk and *it has also been linked to people recovering from a bout of flu of any sort*."_ (My emphasis)

Very selective reporting by the Daily Mail (_no surprise there then_ :roll: ) and significant misrepresentation. No mention of the lady at the end of the article having had the swine flu jab - just a hyped up tale of her illness, with the implication carefully left unsaid.

None of this detracts from GG222's horrendous experience of course, but it is very easy erroneously to link an effect to a cause, and become quite frightened without any significant reason for concern.

With only an admitted 1 in 1,600,000 risk involved, I think those are odds that most people would regard as acceptable.

I have no medical training (only simple logic) so who am I to say, but the NHS link quoted by Ray says very positively, *"The exact cause of Guillain-Barré syndrome is unclear. There is no way of identifying who is most at risk."*

Dave


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

I to have sympathy with your experience but I have been having the jab for 10 years now and I know it has really helped me.
It saves thousands of lives in older people.


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

The NHS website on GBS states

"Possible triggers

Although some cases occur without a known cause, some cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome are related to:
a virus, such as the cytomegalovirus (a member of the herpes group) or the HIV infection
a bacterial infection, such as infection from Campylobacter bacteria
Hodgkin's lymphoma – tumour of the lymph glands (the small, bean-sized organs that carry white blood cells)
Vaccination has also been linked to Guillain-Barré syndrome. However, studies suggest a very low risk of developing the syndrome after receiving a vaccine.
For example, since the swine flu pandemic in 2009, around 6 million doses of the vaccine Pandemrix have been given in the UK. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), which monitors the safety of vaccines, received 15 suspected reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome during the pandemic. The diagnosis was not confirmed in any of these cases."

It also states that flu can cause GBS.

Should you discuss your concerns with your GP


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

My wife and I, and my next door neighbour who is a respected cardiologist, have the flu jab every year, never had a problem.


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> What has this to do with the flu jab?..
> 
> ...


GBS and the 'flu' jab? Maybe nothing, maybe something. As you say Ray, the exact trigger is unknown.
Medical opinion is undecided, but any virus can cause it.

Some may well wish to dismiss the article as scaremongering, others may well wish to take note.
You make your own choice.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

GG222 said:


> Some may well wish to dismiss the article as scaremongering, others may well wish to take note.


Absolutely. Only the person concerned can make such a potentially important decision.



GG222 said:


> You make your own choice.


But not on the basis of a Daily Mail article I would suggest. 8O

There's plenty of information available from the NHS and other highly reputable British sources, which tend to be far more equivocal than some of the American websites!! 8O 8O

Dave 

P.S. Hope nobody finds anything too alarming. We had our jabs last Monday!!


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

According to this:
www.scs.qmul.ac.uk/swineflu/Docs/20337.pdf
they are completely different vaccinations (swine flu & seasonal flu)

Markus Babbel, ex Liverpool FC Full Back, had his career curtailed by G-B;he now manages Hertha Berlin FC
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/long-road-back-for-babbel-620003.html


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

The comments in the Daily Mail article can be found on numerous websites. To denigrate the article just because it is published by the Daily Mail is unfair in this case.

There are numerous websites that state the possible connection between GBS and the 'flu' jab. Indeed the NHS site states: 
'Vaccination has also been linked to Guillain-Barré syndrome. However, studies suggest a very low risk of developing the syndrome after receiving a vaccine.'

An article by Dr Laura Price states:

'... A Canadian study of Guillain-Barré syndrome admissions also showed a small but significantly increased risk after vaccination (risk ratio 1.45 (95% confidence interval 1.05 to 1.99; P=0.02), although no such increase in risk was seen in a smaller UK study. Several studies showed an increased risk of adverse events after flu vaccination, with 0.7 reports of the syndrome per million vaccinations from 1990-2005, although these studies relied on case reporting so may be unreliable... '

She does state as well...

'... I do not know whether my illness was an idiosyncratic autoimmune phenomenon or whether I am predisposed to similar events in the future. It has been suggested that those who are still within six weeks of the onset of an episode of the syndrome or those whose episode was initially precipitated by vaccination should avoid the vaccine, which seems sensible. In view of the potential risks of and likely exposure to flu infection as a healthcare professional, the lack of relapse of the syndrome in a sizeable number of people who have had the flu vaccine, and the lack of a persistent causal association, my current view is to consider "having the jab" when it becomes available... '

End of quote.

So, we have to make a personal decision as to just how accurate these studies are.

The full article: http://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b3577.full .

I do not read the DM and have no connection with the DM.


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm having mine next Friday.

Having had them without a problem for several years this is my only concern.

I'm due a corneal transplant in December and I'd heard that flu jabs (and presumably anything else that boosts your immune system) can cause rejection. After checking with my consultant, and considering that if I caught flu I would hope my immune system would kick in to fight it anyway, I decided to go ahead and risk it.

Chris


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## Hymerintacto (Aug 2, 2011)

Hello.....

I've just read your post regarding the flu vaccination and agree that you certainly had an awful reaction to it. However, I take issue with the content of the highlighted Daily Mail link provided. I feel the content is unnecessarily alarmist and highly emotive.....and as such, may deter those most at risk from protecting themselves against a potentially deadly virus. 

Ofcourse, everyone has the right to form their own opininion and decide whether or not to have the 'flu jab. However, I speak as a Crtitical Care Nurse who was working in an Intensive Care Unit when Swine Flu was at it's most virulent and deadly....witnessing first hand the often fatal consequences the virus had on patients.....and the resultant devastation their families and loved ones endured as a result.

I don't mean to be a doom and gloom monger.....I simply want to write in praise of the flu vaccine and raise awareness of it's efficacy and the potential it has to save lives. 

Another common misconception is that the vaccine can cause the recipient to contract the flu virus. This is complete nonsense as there is no 'live' component in the virus. However, one may experience a slight local inflammatory reaction at the actual site of the jab....but that's about it.

I've already had my flu jab.....and hope I can persuade those of you who have doubts about it's usefulness to at least discuss it with your GP's or Practice Nurses.....raising any issues you may have about side effects. Good luck y'all. Here's wishing you a flu free winter!

Cathy x


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## CourtJester (Aug 26, 2009)

Hymerintacto said:


> ... Good luck y'all. Here's wishing you a flu free winter!
> 
> Cathy x


Thanks Cathy from me and good health to you and yours.



Telbell said:


> Markus Babbel, ex Liverpool FC Full Back, had his career curtailed by G-B;he now manages Hertha Berlin FC


...and Tony Benn. They reckon that GBS was the actual cause of Franklin D. Roosevelt's death.



ChrisandJohn said:


> ...I'm due a corneal transplant in December ...


Good luck and best wishes.

And stay healthy if not wealthy to all contributors.

Cheers
John


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Has flu started this year yet and if so what animal does it come from. 

I have had a jab but I don't think that counts as it was to have a tooth out. 

So I have never had a flu jab and the jury is still out in my mind. I am gerry hatrick so I have been advised to have one but I also read that those who have the jab have not the high level of immunity to all flu as those who have caught swine\chicken\fish\ pasty flu.

I am wondering whether just to get it and earn that immunity while I am at the first year of retirement


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Go for it Pusser, since having it for the last 10 years I have only had about 4 mild colds which prior to the jab would have flattened me for several days.


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