# Letter in this month's CC magazine.



## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

The letter titled "The 'A and R' Rule" by Pete Wheeler from Rochester in this month's CC magazine. 

Is it a wind up or do such people really exist?


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## Jagman (Feb 16, 2008)

Damn!

Sorry krull I always thrown the mag away without reading it - hate myself for belonging to CC with all those people dressing up for dances and stuff and awarding themselves titles!!

..... but the sites are brilliant aren't they - 'establishments' are great for producing that sort of excellence and its nice to use them from time to time.

So I've no idea what the gent wrote but nothing would surpise me in the world of CC - what did he say - give us a clue - and join the other thread and tell us why you are called krull


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes, he is real, I have just polished his halo.

Gerry


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Krull

Thank you for pointing the letter out. 

I would most certainly have missed it without your assistance and would most certainly be worse off for not reading it :wink: 

I'll go and put it back in the bin  

Geoff


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## Bigmal666 (May 1, 2005)

*Letter*

Hey

I've got the July C & C mag and I can't find the letter you refer to.
Can you give me a clue as to which page it is on. Unless you mean the June mag?


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

July caravan club mag p46

Geoff


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

page 46


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Just opened my mail box and found the mag.have read the letter on page 46 of theJuly edition. I most whole heartedly agree with all he says.

cabby


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## Bigmal666 (May 1, 2005)

*letter*

I thought C & C mag waa camping and caraving sorry haven't got Caravan club mag. Please enlighten me!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

cabby said:


> . I most whole heartedly agree with all he says.
> cabby


Ding ding ! Seconds out ! Move this to the Member's Bar instantly !

G


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

ok have page open at 46 what letter and what are you on about?

Greenie


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

Well come on then, what does he say. The CC mag hits the recycle bin before i even see the post, it is a rule I set! I wish there was an opt out option to save the forests. 

8O


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Ok, time to let those who have not read the mag out of their misery. 

The said gentlemen has a go at dogs, and children etc. But what had us in stitches was his complaint that everybody does not use the toilet brush to clean the WC after use and they do not mop the shower out after use. 

Personally, CC sites are the most expensive I ever use, so I have no intention of cleaning the sanitary facilities. Especially when they close them for an hour for cleaning every day, so they can't be short of time. 

One site I went to you had to step over the mop to enter. I suppose this was a hint. I thought it a trip hazard so moved the mop and bucket outside to prevent accidents.

I have very rarely seen a mop and bucket left out on a private site toilet block.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

krull said:


> Personally, CC sites are the most expensive I ever use, so I have no intention of cleaning the sanitary facilities. .


I rather think you've missed the point !

You're not asked to clean the sanitary facilities, only to make sure that you personally leave the shower in a reasonable state for those that follow you.

In my case this means washing talc off the floor and making sure that my muddy boot prints are not left in the drying area.

I don't think that is a lot to ask.

G


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Are we on same mag? mine has Make a Section Connection on page 46. No where does it discuss what you say unless am blind!

Greenie


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> Are we on same mag? mine has Make a Section Connection on page 46. No where does it discuss what you say unless am blind!
> 
> Greenie


Greenie it's not Woman and Home or Cosmo or Dachshund Monthly or Hymer Gerfunkenslader (I made that up) it's the Caravan Club Magazine wiv articles on tugger bits in it.

SDA


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

greenasthegrass said:


> No where does it discuss what you say unless am blind!
> Greenie


Hi Greenie

Should have gone to Specsavers girl!!


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks oh gorgeous one! am on Camping & Caravanning Mag thought that was it when it said CC.

There is a Dachshund monthly and its called Weiner where you are! and we coming to get you! 8O 

Mwah

Greenie


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Grizzly said:


> I rather think you've missed the point !
> 
> You're not asked to clean the sanitary facilities, only to make sure that you personally leave the shower in a reasonable state for those that follow you.
> 
> ...


I agree, but the gentlemen rather suggests everybody should always clean the shower/toilet after them to save work for the wardens as they have enough to do. Poor loves.

No-one objects to being expected to brush the loo if you've just left it looking like a bend at Brands Hatch racecourse.


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I think it's very unfair having this discussion. I won't be collecting my post again until late September, so won't have a chance to read this obviously vital and life changing letter until then .


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> I agree, but the gentlemen rather suggests everybody should always clean the shower/toilet after them to save work for the wardens as they have enough to do. Poor loves.
> 
> No-one objects to being expected to brush the loo if you've just left it looking like a bend at Brands Hatch racecourse.


Glad I never visit your house!!

You are NOT expected to clean the shower after you to save the wardens some work but to make life just that tiny bit better for the other members following you in between the one hour per day closures which are needed soley because some skanks don't clean the shower after use. 
I have seen the skid marks left by some members in the toilets and the dribbles left on toilet seats by the poor deprived kids who are left to wander the site all day without supervision but who are, I am sure, not allowed to pee on the toilet seat at home. 
Get real, every club has it's members who are too lazy to clean up after themselves at home and are even worse if they are paying to have all this done for them so what chance do we have of finding clean toilets and showers if members feel they have paid for the right to be downright filthy?
My problem with the CC is those anoying notices about 'Everyone loves your dog on a lead'.
Some dogs are a right pain whether on a lead or not but we do not need 20 notices per site telling us how much our dogs are loved.


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

If you don't get where that guy is coming from then there's a lot about the breakdown of society that will also pass you by....


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

johnandcharlie said:


> I think it's very unfair having this discussion. I won't be collecting my post again until late September, so won't have a chance to read this obviously vital and life changing letter until then .


John, scan of letter attached to PM on theway ( I hope !)

G


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Autoquest said:


> If you don't get where that guy is coming from then there's a lot about the breakdown of society that will also pass you by....


Hi Auto

I think Krull is winding us up a bit. 

At least I hope he is, 'cos I don't want to follow him into the loo if he isn't! 8O 8O


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## hannah29 (Feb 13, 2006)

i agree with what he says in the letter i just don't like the way its written or the tone...i feel like he is shouting at me personally even though i don't have dogs and i know where my kids are at all times and go into the loos with them whenever they need to go. i agree there is a minority of people who leave a mess or go on holiday and totally disregard the fact they have children and pets with them but on the whole majority of people are fine.
hannah


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

"Dont make noise near me; 
Dont bring the dogs near me (or in the same campsite); 
Dont use a genny near me;
Dont let your kids play near me;
Dont have a baby near me, in case it cries, (therefore the first applies.)"

I am however, a caravanner/motorhomer, and I enjoy this because of the freedom it gives .


Seen any or all these comments before.
And I dont think its unreasonable to clean up after oneself in showers or toilet blocks.

Leave it as you would like to find it, I say.


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Totally agree with you Hannah. Also I find it a bit sad that the letter author found time to write to the mag. 

Actually, I quite happy to see those mop things and the squeegy blade things you get in some continental showers. I use a lot of talc. and it's a bit embarrassing to leave the residue if there's no mop thing available. 

Also ....... have you noticed, most of the CC notices are "Don't do this", "Don't do that", etc. always the negative, never the positive - "Please do this" etc. I wonder if anyone has ever been chucked out of the CC. (Or will I be the first for not parking exactly in the right place on the pitch etc. 8O ) 

Sue


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

Grizzly said:


> John, scan of letter attached to PM on theway ( I hope !)
> 
> G


Thanks Grizzly. I was only joking, but it was interesting to read it. I agree that it probably says all the right things, but in the wrong way.

I wouldn't know what state the loos and showers are in as I've never used them. Why go to an outside facility when you've got one at home? I do use the CC laundries in the winter, and they always seem to be OK.

I've been on quite a lot of CC sites, but mostly in the winter when I suppose the worst of the problems don't happen as they are used less. I haven't really seen any problems. Occasionally there's some dog poo on the dog walk, but it's rare. Charlie sometimes rushes out of the van to say hello to someone, including the wardens, but they seem to love him off the lead too. He's always tied up if he's supposed to be outside though.

It's all down to common sense, and sometimes it's OK to bend the rules a bit if everyone else is happy with that, but the rules are there as guidance and for the people without common sense.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Autoquest said:


> If you don't get where that guy is coming from then there's a lot about the breakdown of society that will also pass you by....


That right, a little boy dribbles on the seat and the next thing he's on drugs and mugging old ladies. :roll:

What I am trying to get at is that most private sites I have been on, I have been happy to use the loos and the showers. They are not as clean as home, but hey, its a campsite, so I don't expect them to be. Most people are toilet trained and if they make a mess, they will clean up after themselves. If I walk into a shower and leave mud on the floor, I will mop it out. But I will not mop it out just because I've just used it and the floor is wet with clean water. Neither do I expect the previous person to have done so unless he has muddy boots. But it seems that only the caravan club seems to have to tell it's customers how to behave. The many private sites I go to seem to manage without all the signs. And guess what, they are no little islands of anarchy.

The dogs on leads signs are a prime example, do they need to be everywhere, especially that particularly patronising 'Every bodyloves your dog....on a lead' . Another one is the 'warning- barbed wire', do they need t be every 12'on a fence.

Looking at that letter, it seems to me that if you have lots of anal rules, you will get lots of anal members. Treat people like childen and they often behave like them.

Why am I in the CC? Because they open in winter.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

krull said:


> Looking at that letter, it seems to me that if you have lots of anal rules, you will get lots of anal members. Treat people like childen and they often behave like them.


I have to agree on the face of it, but there is a _possible_ different agenda to consider here.

We were just in Ireland, and one campsite had a huge long list of 35 rules fixed to the outside of the toilet block. _(I didn't read them of course, :roll: but did count them just for curiosity.)_ This was the worst site for rules, but by no means the exception!

Everywhere in Ireland there were signs beginning with the word _"No"_ or _"Do not"_ and at one point I commented on this to an Irish couple we were chatting to.

They assured us that nobody takes a blind bit of notice of most of the signs, BUT they are there so that the management, Garda (or whoever) has something positive to fall back on if anyone radically oversteps the mark and has to be sorted out.

If there is a sign saying (for example) _"No jumping off the pier"_ nobody takes much notice and the kids have a whale of a time - under parental supervision one assumes!! :? 8O

If somebody gets hurt however, there can be no comeback in the form of law suits, compensation demands, sackings of the pier manager etc., since the sign was large, prominent and patently disobeyed.

Although such a plethora of signs become a terrible eyesore, this seems one way of putting the responsibility back where it belongs.

In fact, if one thinks about it, this is actually one way of treating people like adults - assuming of course that everyone knows and plays by the unwritten rules. :? :roll:

Interesting.

Cheers


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Zebedee, yes I agree, . 

As a contrast and topical at the moment, my thoughts are drawn to the Glastonbury Festival. 

I have been a couple of times. The first time I went, the police weren't allowed on the site. In theory anarchy. However (with the odd exception), and no rules whatsoever, I was always impressed how well everyone behaved. 

(Can't say I remember everyone using the toilet brush after them though) 8O


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

I cant believe what i have read on here, the man was just saying we should think of our fellow campers not save work for anyone.
although not presented to well, we should all basicly follow these (rules)
anyone who dont should not use sites, they should wild camp and stay away from civilised human beings.
We just came back from france, stayed at around 25 sites and most were clean and had mops ect to clear up any little acccidents plus leave things clean. In england I have been in showers and toilets covered in mud had bowls and basins left unclean,I have taken my dog (rest his soul) onto dog walks which have been so contaminated that he went in almost on tiptoes did his business and almost ran to the gate, this is not down to wardens etc, Its down to the inconsiderate campers amongst us.
If this is the caring forum it appears, just think on


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*cc mag letter*

Sorry, I think the guy is spot on.

Its about being thoughtful to others a trait which appears to have diminished in latter years. I love kids (have 3 grand children of our own with 2 more on the way) and both my sons have caravans so we often go away together. We always know where our kids are, never let them play around other peoples units and make sure they abide by the rules. Yet often we see parents abdicating their duties and letting kids run riot while they enjoy their holiday. Both my sons complain that they are often treated with coolness when they first arrive because it seems there is a growing general resentment of children which is very sad when it is not they but the parents who are to blame.

We recently went on a site which had many rules; no riding of bikes, no children on the play area after 9pm, no children unsupervised in showers etc. (I know sounds like a boot camp!) So when a new arrival pitched next to us with 2 kids they immediately raced around the site on bikes, ran through hedges, were out on the play area with others at 10:15 all while the parents were setting up. Now we are not killjoys and did not complain as I said to my wife ' they were not really hurting anyone' and it did not bother us. But what was apparent was the complete disregard of the rules and the lack of interest of what the kids were doing. When we got talking to them next day it was their first time there (as was ours) and they admitted they had not read the rules, is this a legitimate excuse? Anyway it made no difference because the disregard of the rules continued until the owner of the site had a word, then of course it did not go down very well.

We also love dogs having had them all our lives until last couple of years. I never took on the reponsibilty of a dog (we had 2) without first realising and accepting that it is a 24/7/365 commitment; walks twice a day (no matter how you feel or what the weather is doing), feeding, grooming, behaviour etc. but we never let our dogs impact on other people either from barking, mess or bad behaviour. Unfortunately again this can be a problem on some sites but I have to say that the dogs are often better behaved than the humans.

As for mopping showers is this too much to expect? Don't you mop or wipe your shower/bath out at home ready for the next person? I don't know which narks me most the state some are left in or the shear ambivalence by some people not to do it, surely its just good manners?

Before you say it I don't have a halo I just care and I know that a lot more out do just the same and that is very comforting.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I skimmed it, and this thread. He's right; just a bit anal about it 

Dave


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*CC Rules OK!*

 Buon giorno tutti, well I'm on a CC site and just looove it. Got Wi-Fi for 6.8 sterling for 3 days, so saving lots of Euro's that my TIM card was costing me (Euro 0.08 cents per Kb!) and like the hard standing and the leccy and the clean facilities, although I tend to use my own rather than theirs. Have seen the dogs on lead sign a few times, and glad they have it up, because I too love dogs as long as they are on a lead and belong to someone else. Afraid I didn't manage to park up dead in line with the pitch marker but no one seems to mind. Have found the wardens very friendly and helpful so far. Believe me the signage is no where near as restrictive and extensive as that displayed at most Italian or Spanish campsites. 
Anyway, nuff for now. 
Arrivederci a Lincoln,
eddied


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I went to an RV park in the US, Mississippi I think it was, beautiful site, right by a lovely river, full of nice flowers etc....anyway, there were 2 signs as you drove in.

First one said.....please, drive forwards, and await attention. 

second one said

"NO ALCOHOL, NO FIREARMS, NO EXCEPTIONS."

in lower case underneath, .....people who are drunk with a gun can expect to be shot!".


Brief, and to the point I thought. as well as, dont pee off the owner. 8)


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## Fuzzyfelts (Apr 23, 2007)

To get back to the point on this thread - Isn't is just common courtesy to leave anything just as you would like to find it? Surely no-one objects to cleaning up after themselves if they make a mess?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree totally with Grizzly, you are simply being asked to leave it as you find it - not an unreasonable request.

Sadly due to mobility problems my wife and I are compelled to use disabled facilities where available. These are often of a superb size and standard and, due to a limited number of users, usually in an immaculate state. We try hard to leave them in the same state. 

The CC club sites are of a good standard, yes you pay for it, but if that's what you want why not! We are members of CC and CCC and prefer the CC sites for cleanliness, the one exception that we have visited in the CCC is at Devizes - it is outstandingly good and I would recommend it without hestitation, clean, well appointed and staffed by really excellent wardens/subwardens. Try it - it's close to the canal and has some excellent things to do and see in the area.

We have had an RV twice in Florida - two weeks each time, once in North, once in South and the Keys. Mainly used State Parks - similar to CC sites but larger area. Outstandingly good and can be booked from UK on the web, down to actual pitch. They have similar rules and reflect the care that is put into them, yes there are kids around but they behave reasonable, as do most kids in UK. There are some that ruch around and may cause incidents, but that is the same in the rest of society. Perhaps putting my head on a block but if I encounter the noisy type I find a gentle word works wonders, I have NEVER been spoken back to and never had irate parents on my step! 

Typical teacher though I suppose - a loud look works wonders!


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

Just a brief comment from me............I just wonder what state the bathrooms /toilets are in at the homes of the people who have criticised the comments in the letter?!?!


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Back to the original question, _Do such people exist?_ Well ask yourself, would you have sat down and wrote such a letter? I reckon the editor wrote it!

peedee


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

peedee said:


> _Do such people exist?_
> peedee


Yes they do. They are the people who stick laminated signs all over a campsite with don't do this and don't do that.

The people who it is aimed at will take no notice in any case because it couldn't possibly apply to them.

Derek


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

Invicta said:


> Just a brief comment from me............I just wonder what state the bathrooms /toilets are in at the homes of the people who have criticised the comments in the letter?!?!


I think you are missing the point.

All this has nothing to do with my or any one elses standards of hygiene.

It is about the fact that the caravan club (and the writer of the letter)seem to think it necessary to fuss around like a mother hen telling everyone how to behave as though they were children.

A large private site I use in Cornwall has almost no notices. There is a very relaxed atmosphere to the place. Everyone behaves just the same as they do on CC sites, on the whole like decent human beings.


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*CC sites*

:roll: Ciao tutti, well I may have to go off and write an irate letter to the C.C.
Walking round the site this morning, after several caravans/motorhomes had vacated their pitches, I noticed that several pitch markers were at least 4/5 degrees off vetical, and several maybe as much as 20/25 degrees. I also noticed that one of the site wardens was tearing around the grassy bits with a small tractor, disturbing the peace and probably several elf and safety regs. at the same time.Just likeI used to as a 14 year old leaning to drive.
Can safely report that CC wardens are human after all.
 saluti,
eddied


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