# Things I should have thought of but didn't till it was too



## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hope this helps others to clarify in their own minds exactly what they are doing prior to purchasing.

It is really just a reality check, when buying a used commercial van supplied and converted to a MH by a dealer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but forward vision is much safer, so best to do the reality check before paying your 30% deposit.
*Reality check:* You are paying a deposit of £6000+ for a used commercial van that you have never seen.
*Consider:* In what other situation in life would you pay a £6000+ deposit for a used commercial van that you have never seen.
*Reality check:* This is a commercial van with 30000+ commercial miles on the clock
*Consider: * Commercial miles are very different from used MH mileage.
A commercial van may have had numerous drivers. It may have been used on inner city stop/start routes. It may have been hammered at fast speeds on long haul motorway routes. Most commercial van drivers have deadlines to meet. Commercial drivers seldom have any financial interest invested in the van or its care & maintenance.
You will not know how the van has been used or the weights transported.
These vans are sometimes leased, returned to the finance company at the end of term and submitted to auction. Occasionally these vans may be finance company re-possessions submitted to auction. Sometimes they have had a private owner with a vested financial interest in their care & maintenance. A van that was born a MH has subsequently been treated with lots of TLC if only to protect the considerable capital invested in it.
*Reality check: *Do not compare the price of your intended purchase against the cost of similar NEW motorhomes. Compare the price against the cost of a similar MH the same year of manufacture as your intended purchase.
*Consider:* Only the conversion is new and the most luxurious conversion in the world will not get you from A to B. In the private market it is easily possible to pick up a 4 year old PVC in excellent condition, with low mileage, and sometimes many extras for about the same price, and you will not have to wait months for it. 
*Reality check:* two vans at auction.Van A. Private owner. Nice condition avg. mls £8700 
Well within the spec. as advertised and promised to the customer.
Van B ex. lease. fair condition, slight impact damage, higher mls. £7000 Just within the advertised spec. promised to the customer Which van will the dealer buy for you????
It is the dealers job/business to make as much cash out of the transaction as possible.
The van may have a cosmetic face lift and any impact damage repaired before you view it 
You will not know the condition the van was in at the time of purchase, nor the quality of any cosmetic or impact damage repairs, or even if any repairs were impact or tiny dints.
*Reality check:* Have the vehicle RAC/ AA inspected prior to conversion.Test drive the van thoroughly prior to conversion. Do an HPI
Warranty (if supplied)Read the warranty carefully before conversion. Ensure that the van's service history complies with the terms of the warranty. Most warranty's will not cover brakes, exhausts, clutches or any "wear & tear" components.
There will be a limit on the amount the warranty will pay out if a large component fails.
Ensure that the current mileage is input and the warranty is stamped by an authorized service agent if applicable. 
*Reality check:*Remember an MOT is just an indication that all the vehicle's safety components were within the ministry's parameters that day. It does not mean that you will not have to replace a clutch or brake discs etc within 2000 miles hence the RAC inspection. 
*Consider *The van purchased by the dealer for you, may be up to five months older by the time the conversion is completed and you take delivery. For this reason confirm that it will be supplied with a current MOT., if the next MOT is due within 6 months of you taking possession of the finished van.
Ensure you are given 2 sets of keys and that the blue card with the computer numbers is in the service book. To have a key cut is time consuming and expensive, and without access to the numbers on the blue card it can be difficult.
If an MOT is not required, insist on a full mechanical service and PDI. Ask to see the documents for these and check for any recommendations. The warranty may demand that you are in possession of these documents and at the very least an authorized agent's stamp on the service book. Check the habitation area for missing and unfinished items.
*Reality check:* Resale value. Some dealers will not take an unknown conversion in part exchange and if they do the price offered can be considerably lower than that for a known panel van conversion. Ie Autosleeper, Trigano, Adria. Etc.
Year of Manufacture. A van registered between October 2003 and Mar. 2004 will have a 53 plate. Another resale value consideration.
*Reality check *Scenario: You have requested a silver van no older than 2004. If the dealer has difficulty locating one of these you may have to wait for one to become available. During this waiting time your £6000+ deposit sits quite happily in the dealers bank a/c. Time passes. Eventually the dealer suggests he has found a silver van, reg. Jan 2004 (This will have a 53 plate) however it has a higher mileage than the promised spec. What do you do??? Take it. Continue the waiting game???? Who is in control???? Time is more important to you than the dealer. After all your cash is in his bank.

*Sales Techniques*. There are various types of techniques from the pushy guy with verbal diarrhea and a continuous torrent of spiel, through variations to the quiet soft spoken sincere, genuine, reliable nice guy who inspires total trust and confidence. 
*Reality check. *It takes a great deal of trust and confidence to hand over £6000+ of your hard earned, to someone you don't really know, for a used commercial vehicle that you have never seen.
It's the salesman's job to inspire trust and confidence using the most effective technique he possibly can. But it's a technique nevertheless. (see beginners guide on this site. He is not your friend)
Ask any questions one at a time and listen to the answers. Senario: Emailed questions.
Can you confirm that the van has electric windows, mirrors and a radio CD?
Reply: Yes I can confirm that the van has electric windows and mirrors.
Sometimes its not what they say, but more what they don't say. Listen for what they don't say. Look for evasions. The van may possibly be delivered with a radio cassette.
*Reality check *. Take a length of barbed wire, wrap it in pink fluffy fabric. Now it looks soft and inviting but underneath it is still barbed wire. Strong, sharp, unyielding, definitely not gentle kind and trustworthy.

I have tried to keep this as factual as possible but as its based on my own experience a little bias may have crept in. If so I do apologise.

Ah, Now I hear you say………..name and shame. That is not my intention simply because I consider that 95% of what happened to me was entirely my own fault.
I was naïve, inexperienced, too trusting, and *exceptionally stupid*. An incredibly easy target and they took full advantage, and why shouldn't they. That's their job, but does it make them the epitome of honesty they that they like to project???????????

You must draw your own conclusions, but please consider that one mans meat is another mans poison and this method of purchase may be the perfect solution for some people.

Finally When I mentioned the cosmetically repaired impact damage to the rear door of my van the dealer explained " well it is a 2nd hand commercial vehicle" Aahhhhhh bugga me, (slap) and here's me thinking I 'd bought a motorhome. Silly bat. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Hi Maggie,

Not really sure what you are on about although I am sure the post is really well intended as a warning.

There are several companies specialising in converting used Panel Vans into motorhomes and I haven't seen any adverse comments about them, but I stand to be corrected on that.

If one is worried about the base van, I understand that you can take your *own van *to them and have it converted.

Regards


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## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi Peter,

Sorry its not clear. Some companies, or at least this one in particular purchases the van for you and the 30% deposit has to be paid up front
to initate the order and commence the process.

The deposit is 30% of the total cost of the van including any optional extras requested. 

The vans are around £20000 plus any optional extras hence £6000 deposit
is handed over before the vehicle is purchased.

They may occasionally accept an owner's van for conversion, but the core of their business is to supply and convert. 

Hope this makes it more sensible.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

maggielou said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> Sorry its not clear. Some companies, or at least this one in particular purchases the van for you and the 30% deposit has to be paid up front
> to initate the order and commence the process.
> ...


Fair comment Maggie, I take you you were not a happy bunny when you did it although the advice is very sound in more ways than one.

I only commented as there are some good reputable people out there, if you had problems best to name the company involved so the others don't take the blame.

Regards

Peter


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## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi Peter,

Re: Your last post. Wanting to be sure that I had got my facts right I checked their website and I can confirm that they do not do conversions for customers own vehicles. That is not to say that would not undertake this work if times were difficult.

I take your point but surely any dealer whose policy demands 30% up front prior to purchasing the van would put their customers in a similar position.

This large committment prior to the customer seeing the van is the point.

If I went to somewhere like Leisure drive I could buy one of their used vehicles and request a bespoke conversion, but I would have had the opportunity to see and inspect the van prior to paying a deposit. 

And this applies to all dealers who buy their vehicles in and either sell them as a fully converted MH or offer them for a bespoke conversion.

The reality check was only for people tempted to put down a huge deposit for a van they had never seen. However I am sorry that this is not coming over as clearly as I intended so I will give some thought to your suggestion.

Thank you.

M
Thanks.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*buying a M/H*

Hi Maggielou

Its caveat emptor I'm afraid. Its the same if you buy a M/H from new and it has to be ordered from the manufacturer especially from a show. You pay a large deposit (which in the small print is non refundable) for an item you have never seen! I think this is deplorable I now always sign the form 'subject to my satisfaction and test drive' after a bad experience. We ordered a new M/H from one very large dealer at the NEC, after a few months they said it was ready for pick up. When we got there there were nearly 30 things wrong and I am not talking pernickety things as I am always prepared to put a few thing right myself. Anyway long story short we refused it on the basis it was not fit for purpose (after a lot of arguing and hassle) and got our money back ( it was bank holiday and they just destroyed the cheque - good practice to pay this way if you can), the deposit took a little longer (few weeks) but we did get it which I think was very good of them. Would'nt it be great if you could keep a satisfaction retainer for 6 months?
It was a salutary lesson. There are good dealers out there just listen to what people say about them but always remember caveat emptor. buyer beware!

Graham


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## Hampshireman (Apr 18, 2007)

I am fairly sure my VW T4 Caravelle van was converted by Leisuredrive, but I am at work and the papers are at home. They fitted the pop up roof, electrics and all technical stuff.

However I bought it privately from the previous owner. He bought it from them and had it fitted out by a carpenter friend. It was clearly an express delivery van in it's baby days judging by traces of the decals just visible on some panels.

120000 on the clock and still going well, but who knows?


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## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

HiZappy

From the horrific stories seen on this site about new MH I can see where you are coming from.

But because its new you have a really strong base from which to demand your deposit back. You also know that any defects were down to manufacture. (base vehicle and conversion) See difference below.

Hi Hampshireman, I know Leisuredrive produce some very nice MH, I also know they buy commercial vans to convert, however unless specifically requested they buy decent vans to convert and sell. as and when they are available. They are not confined to time limits. Their customer's can view the MH they wish to buy before parting with any cash.

They are not sitting with £6000 of their clients cash in their bank waiting and trusting the dealer to buy the best van available for them as opposed to the best he can get at the cheapest price in a limited time frame.

This is why the customer is much more vunerable in this situation, and should stop and think carefully about the position they could be putting themselves into before handing over £6000.

In other words they are totally dependent on the dealer being absolutely trustworthy and prepared to limit his profit in order to purchase the best possible van for them within the agreed terms, as opposed to the best he can get away with.

Would you not agree?


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