# Timing Belt and Water Pump



## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

The van is now 5 years old so thought it's time to have the Timing belt (Kit) changed, the Garage has asked if I would also like the water pump changing for a extra £78.

Knowing nothing about the subject advice would be appreciated 

Thanks Charlie


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Chascass said:


> The van is now 5 years old so thought it's time to have the Timing belt (Kit) changed, the Garage has asked if I would also like the water pump changing for a extra £78.
> 
> Knowing nothing about the subject advice would be appreciated
> 
> Thanks Charlie


The answer is that on a lot of engines the waterpump is in effect another idler wheel the belt runs around - it just happens to drive a pump in doing so. It is the same age as the other idlers and has done just the same amount of work and is probably designed and built to the same engineering standards.

So why should it be likely to last any longer?

If you don't change it now and it does decide to go before the next cambelt change, you are going to have to do all the work done now all over again.

Is it worth the risk for £78?


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

What is the base vehicle, if its a Fiat 2.8 JTD then as far as I am aware the water pump in not driven by the cam belt and can therefore be changed at any time if needed without the whole cam belt process. Don,t know about other base vehicles or engines etc.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

If you are changing it due to age and not mileage then it is ok to do just the belt providing that the mileage is low. We have just replaced the belt on our 2005 reg autotrail chieftain on age as it has only done 4000 miles.
We always advise if you are renewing the cambelt due to mileage to rerplace with a kit and if the belt runs the water pump to renew that as well. The reason for this is that the bearing in the pump has done the same milage as the tensioners. Quite a few of the manufactures are now doing kits with belt, tensioners and water pump.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

Yes Chudders you are quite right water pump is not run from the cambelt on the 2.8JTD . Recommend renewal for cambelt is 72000 or five years on the Fiat 2.8JTD


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

Yes it is a Fiat 2.8 jtd on a 55 plate and has 20,000 miles on the clock,
so it looks like a pump change would not be needed, thanks for your advice.

Charlie


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I had my water pump go 2 weeks ago whilst in France . . it took 4 days for the little village garage to get new one & fit & lightened my pocket by £500 !! [ok, my van has done 85k ] so at your milage I guess its not too important to get it changed.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Get a Mercedes !!!!

CHAIN driven camshaft      


(now retreating under tin hat and awaiting tirade of replies because that has nothing to do with water pumps 8O , and yes I DO know its almost impossible to get a Merc based MH these days  thats why I am going to keep mine forever   )


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

"its almost impossible to get a Merc based MH these days thats why I am going to keep mine forever"

Here here!

Just make sure that the written guarantee you get for the cam belt replacement job covers consequential damage should it fail for ANY reason. This galvanises their mind a tad. If it needs replacing then everything it runs on should be replaced.
Sounds like the water pump is not one of these items though.

C.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

i personally would not change the water pump if the cam bet is being changed for age not mileage, just had my cam belt done and at 18.000 miles am sure the water pump has a lot more left in it yet, probably will last at least 50,000 easily but each to their own, i just feel its an unnecessary expense which most garages are more than willing to take your money for.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not read any replies, so don't know what advice has already been given.

It is always good practice to replace not only the water pump, but also all the wheels which the cam belt runs on, the tensioner especially, and also the fan belt, it is an extra cost , but the bearings in in all the idler wheel sand the tensioner have a hard life, also if the fan belt fails it's sods law it will manage to foul the cambelt and the cost to put it all right is astronmical.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I'm having the cam belt on my 2007 2.3 Fiat X2/50 changed tomorrow.

The garage rang me today suggesting that the fan belt is also changed, cost £20ish and no labour costs as it has to be removed anyway. 

I asked about the water pump and was told that the water pump drive does not form part of the cam belt tensioning system Also no reported problems of early failure or other problems with the pump.


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## chickann (Sep 17, 2010)

timing belt, guide and tensioner is all that needs changing, around 1.7 hours to do it recommend change at 72000 miles or every 4 years.

cheers

Ann


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> I'm having the cam belt on my 2007 2.3 Fiat X2/50 changed tomorrow.
> 
> The garage rang me today suggesting that the fan belt is also changed, cost £20ish and no labour costs as it has to be removed anyway.
> 
> I asked about the water pump and was told that the water pump drive does not form part of the cam belt tensioning system Also no reported problems of early failure or other problems with the pump.


The reason to do the water pump even though it's nothing to do with the cam belt is simple, if the pump seizes, and they do often, it will eventually (quite quickly sometimes) snap, and it has been known to jam the usual plastic cam belt cover at the lower end by the crankshaft, this can and does snap the cam belt.

Considering the cost, and the frequency it needs to be done, it's false economy not to.

Just Google good practice or ask a proper mechanic.


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## DustyR (Jan 26, 2009)

Having read all the posts regarding when to replace the cam belt, I am now wondering about my 7yr old Ford Fiesta which has done 34000m. Does the same apply to all engines? My local Ford dealer has never mentioned replacing the cam belt when in for service.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

DustyR it may well be 10years or 100,000 miles but if you let me know size engine and whether petrol or diesel I will let you know timescale.
Lin


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## chickann (Sep 17, 2010)

usually the water pump will start to make a noise if it going to seize, (u will hear the bearing) very rare for it to cause a problem relating to the timing belt, unless the water pump is driving by the timing belt (this engine is not) so not necessary to change the water pump every time the timing belt is done.

Ann


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

chickann said:


> usually the water pump will start to make a noise if it going to seize, (u will hear the bearing) very rare for it to cause a problem relating to the timing belt, unless the water pump is driving by the timing belt (this engine is not) so not necessary to change the water pump every time the timing belt is done.
> 
> Ann


I feel like I'm arguing with you Ann, but that's not my intention, I just speak from my own and others bitter experience.

The advice I give is a bit belt an braces, better to get it done rather than not and pay the high price of new valves and guided.

As for hearing it go, yes you'd definitely hear it rattle, but only if the radio wasn't too loud it wasn't rattly old diesel and if you knew what it was making the noise, and sadly these days few people venture under the bonnet.

I've been around cars and vans all my life and although I'm far from a mechanic, a few friends are and I spend time in their garages watching them take heads of to sort out snapped cam belt problems, some on cars where they specifically asked if the owner wanted the water pump/fan belt doing, one of them now asked the customer to sign to the effect that didn't want it done, so if/when it all goes pear shaped it is apparent it was against his advice.

For those who are blissfully ignorant of cam belts etc.

"Certain engines with overhead camshafts have timing belts that have a limited life span. Car makers use these belts instead of more durable chains because chains are noisier and cost more to manufacture. Your vehicle owner's manual will recommend at what mileage the timing belt must be replaced. These intervals range from every 60,000 miles to every 105,000 miles. To see what is recommended for your engine, click on the link at the bottom of this article.
The job of the timing belt is to turn the camshaft(s) at exactly 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft while maintaining a precise alignment. This means that the crankshaft will make two revolutions for every revolution of the camshaft. Engines will have at least one camshaft, or as many as four camshafts in some of the V-type engines. The camshaft causes the intake and exhaust valves to open and close in time with the pistons which move up and down in the cylinders. The valves must open and close at exactly the right time in relationship to the piston movement in order for the engine to run properly. "

"There are two types of engines that use timing belts. They are described as: "Interference Engines" and "Non-interference Engines" The difference lies in the proximity between the valves and the pistons. On an interference engine, if the timing belt slips even one notch, the piston can crash into an open valve causing serious engine damage by bending valves and breaking pistons. Non-interference engines will usually not self destruct, but in either case if the belt fails, the engine will immediately shut down leaving you stranded. The link at the bottom of this article will tell you which category your engine falls under.
Timing belts fail without warning and on some vehicles, are almost as hard to check as they are to change. In most cases, your only protection is to change the belt at the recommended intervals. Timing belt replacement is not a cheap job but it is far less costly than the alternative.
Some technicians may recommend that you replace the water pump during a timing belt job even if there is nothing wrong with it. This is because 90% of the labor to change the water pump has already been done with the timing belt job and some technicians consider it good insurance to replace the pump at this time. My feeling is that some water pumps can last the life of the car but many do fail and will cost big money to replace at a later date. So ask your technician what his experience is with the water pump on your model car and look at how long you plan to keep the car. This way, at least you will be making an informed roll of the dice."

Cam belt misery

There is of course the fan belt driven water pump which is getting rarer nowadays, but do change the fan belt often, if it squeals get it sorted, it can still end up snapping the cam belt as mentioned earlier.

I don't think I can make it any clearer, change the water pump (if cam belt driven) and fan belt, and sleep peacefully, if a little poorer :wink: :wink:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Kev thanks.

Your quote refers to link for which engines are interference/non-interference. Where can I find the link?

Prior my ownership my timing belt was changed at 5-year interval as recommended, but on questioning the garage about the tensioners their reply was that the job-card did not show a request for this to be done. Is that a problem? Engine is 2002 Fiat Ducato 2.8 tdi.

Geoff


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

DustyR
Regarding your Fiesta, Ford timing belt renewal intervals are petrol 100,000 miles or 10 years diesel 150,000 miles or 10 years. This is based on 2003 onwards reg, unless you have a chain fitted.
Lin


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## DustyR (Jan 26, 2009)

Hi lindyloot, thanks for the info regarding Fiesta timing belt renewal. Mine is 1.6 petrol Duratec Jan 03.
How come the the life of this belt can be so much longer than most MH belts?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It's probably to do with having a mild cam profile so there is less effort to rotate it, it might also be the size of the belt, width/thickness meaning less stress.

Or it could be something else :lol: :lol: :lol:


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