# storage - vehicle battery goes flat



## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi all 

just wondered what the experience is of those who keep their vans in storage. We recently went to pick ours up and the starter battery was flat (just clicked), this after about 5 weeks since last out. A previous van we had was still live after 3 months in storage - untouched.

Now I had the battery tested after I got it jump started (actually my wife did all that, i was in work) and the test pronounced the battery as fine. Unfortunately I don't know what test they performed so, though re-assuring, it isn't conclusive. The battery itself is 12 months old and I haven't used the van enough to comment on it's state (we only got it in November) but I strongly suspect, without any proof that it is OK. Therefore I suspect that something is drawing a current while it is parked up but I don't know what, if anything might be. We have a Tomtom permanent fitting kit fitted and a reversing camera but no other bits which run off the starter battery. The rest is a standard Merc cab. Everything was switched off as far as I know, though it being new to us I reserve the right to 'find something I left on'

So my question is, is this everyone elses's experience or is my battery draining too quick. And what do people think of those portable booster kits for starting weak batteries? And finally, any suggestion on what might be considered common things which will drain the battery over time.

Please bear in mind I'm semi-technical only, I read the previous posts on batteries and found myself glazing over at some points but most of them are on leisure batteries.

any help/feedback most appreciated


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Dangler 

Do you have an alarm fitted ? Over time that will flatten the battery. 

If you cannot find the 'drain' I suggest removing the earth lead from the battery if your storing for several weeks. 

Another solution is to buy a small solar panel that plugs into the lighter socket and provides a trickle charge. 

My solution is to remove the batteries ( one starter and four leisure ) and keep charged in the shed at home until needed, not the most convenient solution but at least I know they will be fully charged when needed.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

I agree with Jim, an alarm will drain the battery quite quickly (so I have been told by the guy who fitted ours) and within 5 weeks anyway. We got a small portable solar panel for about £15 which plugs into the ciggy socket and does seem to help.
Hope this helps

Keith


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Jim/Keith

thanks for the reply: As far as i know no alarm. Removing the earth lead sounds a good idea. Unfortunately removing the batteries to put on charge is not an option, I don't have any shed or garage facilities (terrace house with yard). Also the solar panel probably wouldn't help as it is indoor storage with only some natural light.

Still at least the battery seems OK. Heading for Aviemore tomorrow at that nice site Jim recommended me. They said on the radio this morning it was -12C there!! That'll be a test for our first trip away in it!


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Good luck mate and have a safe and enjoyable trip.

Happy New Year

Keith


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Have a good one mate.. take snow chains ..lol


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## NormanB (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

Yes, our FIAT van was new in mid-October and went onto a storage site almost immediately. It started ok on Nov 15th when I went down to the site to check it over.

Went to drive it out of storage last week and the battery was so flat it wouldn't turn the starter motor. AA man said put it on charge and try it later. Did that and the thing still didn't turn the starter motor. Second AA man said the battery was probably burgered and I bought a new one. Problem solved but pain in wallet.

Only thing I reckon was on was the Cobra Alarm. From now on, in storage, I'll disconnect the negative terminal and give it half an hours run every month.


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## 89564 (May 28, 2005)

If your Fiat/Peugeot radio/cd player is on twenty minute switch off by pass this seems to mean that allthough the radio is switched off the set is still active.
Look at the on/off button.Mine glows in the dark 8) .

This takes its toll on my battery if the vehicle is not moved for 14 days.
I have no electrical alarm fitted.
I have one of those small solar panels but more important am able to give the van a good run once a week.

N


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## WISSAGE (May 16, 2005)

We purchased new Fiat 2.8 in August, went straight off to France, 2 weeks later after 2 day stay on site, the battery would not turn the engine over. Purchased new battery from the breakdown company (refunded by dealer).
I tried to start the engine last week, but the battery was very low and a recharge did the trick. There is an alarm fitted.
The old battery was recharged on our return from France and the indicator is still green, i.e. still charged. I havn't fitted it to the van to try it though.
I will investigate further. A meter in series with the battery to check for drainage.
No problems with previous vehicles.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

A battery charger / with instant booster start is a worthwhile addition to anybodys toolkit as is a good heavy set of jump leads. I run a couple of lorries as well as our motorhome and private car and its amazing how many times they get me out of trouble. The battery pack / booster charge gives me almost instantaneous startup on a flat battery even on our heavy lorries. We also have a decent solar panel on the Bessacar roof which keeps the batteries on that at 100% all the time even in the dead of winter as well as lots of free electricity in the camping season.


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## 90860 (May 1, 2005)

Hi
I had the same problem found out it was my Tracker draining the battery.

As the other half did not like pushing, I now start up the van ever 2 weeks.

regards 
john


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I have just had to replace my starter battery after nearly 5 years of use. They are not cheap and I would have thought only 4 years use is a little short on the average life expectancy. (I had seven years use out of my car battery) As a result I am considering fitting a Battery Master (see HERE)
Its not a good idea to allow a vehicle battery to go flat because it does shorten their life.

I have also found this cheaper alternative HERE My motorhome is rarely idle for much more than a month but in my view the battery still degenerates compared to one in daily use. Does anyone have any comments on these devices and the value of them?

peedee


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## ojibway (May 9, 2005)

*Hi Dangler,
Happy new year to you and everyone else on MHF>

Your problem could also have been such a simple thing as poor or dirty battery connections. I have had this happen to me on several occasions in the past. Turn the key and all you get is 'click'.*Mike


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## harold (May 1, 2005)

Hi Dangler
I have a VW 2.5 Calypso and in the handbook it actually says that the battery will drain because of the immobiliser and that I should run the vehicle at least once every two weeks to recharge. I didn't realise this until I had the same problem as yourself and tooktime to carefully read the Handbook

Happy New Year 
Harold


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Surely out of 8000 plus members someone is using a Battery Master.
Does no one have any comments about them?

How long have you had it ?
Does it give any problems?
Where is it installed?
If you installed it youself. how easy was it to run the new wiring and to break into existing wiring which I assume you must do


peedee


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Peedee, I'm surprised nobody seems to know, I'm sure I've seen it discussed several times.
George would know, try asking on one of the forums that he still uses.


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Well thanks for the replies everyone. Just back from Aviemore where van and starter battery performed faultlessly. Sadly no snow, so the hoped for skiing never materialised and the temperature was a balmy -2 at night (good site by the way Scotjimland :wink: ).

I think I will follow the advice given and disconnect the earth lead, buy one of those battery booster thingy's, inspect the terminals and read the manual more carefully. I also look forward to hearing any batterymaster experiences. All in all from the replies it doesn't seem unusual that it should be only lasting a relatively short time though I do wonder why my other van lasted so long, must be more flashing lights in the cab on this one!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Does no one have any comments about them? "

peedee,

I haven't got one. They are popular as they serve a definite need. I think they are expensive for what they are.

A cheaper solution is to connect the positive terminals of the leisure and vehicle batteries with a suitable autocable, placing a bulb (resistance) and autofuse in a holder in-line near the driver's seat, and a card on the steering wheel "Remove fuse before starting". Sorted.

Dave


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

> They are popular as they serve a definite need. I think they are expensive for what they are.


Dave, 
That is exactly why I am seeking further comments, I am not convinced they are worth it unless you have a heavy drain on a battery when the vehicle is not in use. 
I have a Scorpion alarm which doesn't seem too bad but it sounds like the Cobra 
is a much heavier drain. My van is rarely idle and in any case, if it was, it is much wiser to take it for a 10mile run at least once a month which not only tops up the battery but gets all the moving parts oiled and the damp out of the engine.

I would also like to know what effect it has on the leisure batteries if the vehicle battery fails which it will eventually. Surely there is a risk of both going flat if you are not on hookup? There must also be a question about whether your onboard charger can cope with charging the leisure as well as the vehicle battery especially if you have large capacity leisure batteries in parallel.

Dangler, 
If you have an alarm, you run the risk of it not working if you disconnect the earth terminal. Most alarms have their own battery hidden away but it is of limited capacity and purely there for anti theft purposes not as a major source of power for the alarm.

peedee


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## 96827 (Nov 30, 2005)

Happy New Year to you all.

I use a small solar panel that sits on the dash and charges through the ciggy lighter socket - only problem was that the ciggy socket switched off with the ignition!

So I wired it direct onto the battery and it seems to work fine.

It cost around £32 from http://www.ardelectronics.com but I've just had their latest brochure through and the same one is down to around £11 + VAT so don't do what I did and just order off the website - ring them first to make sure you get the lower price.


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Peedee

No there is no alarm fitted to my van but it does have electric everything whereas my old van was manual everything. So though my flashing LED remark was flippant, I wonder if things like this and immobiliser etc... are the factor in this van draining the battery and it's something I have to accept and factor into the storage equation.

Cheesegrater - kept indoors, so no natural light to speak of and I would have the same problem as you.

Dave your comment got me thinking. I don't suppose you could jump start from your own leisure batteries though could you? I read somewhere else that they are not designed for the kind of sudden high demand that starter batteries are but possibly in a jump start situation they are not being directly hit with the demand but topping up the starter battery.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Dangler,

Some leisure batteries are strengthened internally to give a decent CCA (cold cranking current) rating suitable for engine starting. If my leisure batteries were not so strengthened, I would expect them to be ruined if I used them for engine starting - something to be done in an emergency, but only that.

You would also have to have thick (and the shorter the better) cables linking the leisure and engine batteries. 

The fuse in my Heath Robinson suggestion:
1) acts as a switch for the function
2) protects the leisure batteries from damage
3) prevents the wire causing a fire through it being too thin for engine starting currents.

Dave


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## ojibway (May 9, 2005)

*Hi peedee
Can't make out the Battery Master - the image shows three exide batteries. The other thing I have used back in the 60's - yeah, that long ago - plug it into the mains and into your cigarette lighter and it charges the battery. Simple as that!
However, the Batteriy Master as described sounds great if its as good as they say it is. If not you should be able to get ypur money back!!
Mike*


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## vonnie (Jul 17, 2005)

*battery master*



peedee said:


> Surely out of 8000 plus members someone is using a Battery Master.
> Does no one have any comments about them?
> 
> How long have you had it ?
> ...


Hi Peedee
I have battery master which i fitted 3 months ago, it is brilliant, I had a problem with my engine battery going flat every week or so, since i fitted the battery master both my engine battery & leisure bateries are constantly fully charged.

it is a piece of cake to fit, one wire goes to live on engine battery, one wire goes to live on leisure battery one wire to common earth , easy. it is small and you can fit it almost anywhere, (stick it on the wall in the battery compartment.)

It is one the best investments i have made.

regards Frank ( vonnies husband)


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## 97078 (Dec 30, 2005)

*flat battery*

[f Hi HOpe I'm doing this right being a novice in forums. I have a Fiat Laika Ecovyp 1r.I do try to use it once a week or 2 but my battery goes down in about 10 days. It has a central locking system but I wouldn't have thought that would drain it that quick if at all. Nothings left on when parked, Ihave read about the radio consuming a bit even when switched off Why it drains down seems to have stumped even the motor electrical experts with all their meters.The battery has been tested and the whole system, they admit there's a drain but dont know where.Any genius out there any ideas? Would 1 of those plug in solar panels be enough to keep it charged at that rate of loss ? I do have a large solar panel on the roof could that be wired in to the starter battery or is that getting too ambitouse and complicated? oHint=Arial] [/font] [align=justify]


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Pipa welcome to the site, cannot help you other than to say to trace what is causing your discharge can be very time consuming and envolves and understanding of the wiring and making logical disconnections. If it is a genuine fault it is really a job for an auto engineer.

Could just be a job for Battery master if you can prove it is not a fault.

vonnie (Frank) thanks for your comments at least I now know I could install it myself.

peedee


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

peedee said:


> Surely out of 8000 plus members someone is using a Battery Master.
> Does no one have any comments about them?
> 
> How long have you had it ?
> ...


Pete,

Sorry I missed your original post. 

I've had the battery master on my last three vans and would not be without one now. With the solar panel (60 watt) the BM tops up the two leisure (100amp Elecsol) batteries and the engine battery.

I can honestly say that since having the BM I have never had a starting trouble due to a battery problem.

The BM the Timberland was fitted along with the solar panel by AB Butt of Leicester. http://www.abbutt.co.uk/solar.html a very professional outfit.

Regards

Don


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

That is reassuring Don, thought you were off today. Are you typing on the move  

peedee


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

peedee said:


> That is reassuring Don, thought you were off today. Are you typing on the move
> 
> peedee


Pete,

Ferry goes at 1900hrs from Hull, 30 minute drive away.

I've loaded my junk, Maureen is just putting the final touches while I keep out the way.

Cheers

Don


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Vonnie

what size are the cables you need to connect between the battery master and batteries i.e are they quite a thick gauge of cable? I ask because my lesiure batteries are inside the van in a special compartment so getting a cable to the leisure battery if it's quite thick gauge could be tricky


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Dangler,

Thin autocable is all that is needed as the Battery Master only supplies 1.1 Amps.

Dave


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

thanks Dave - this then could be the answer to my problems and even sounds easy enough for me to fit, though the 30 quid fitting charge is hardly extortionate. I shall have a closer look at this I think.


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## vonnie (Jul 17, 2005)

Dangler said:


> Hi Vonnie
> 
> what size are the cables you need to connect between the battery master and batteries i.e are they quite a thick gauge of cable? I ask because my lesiure batteries are inside the van in a special compartment so getting a cable to the leisure battery if it's quite thick gauge could be tricky


Hi.
Frank here, I used cable i had left from fitting my solar pane, (2.5mm) easy to work with. If in doubt contact main supplier Van Bitz ([email protected]


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## Seeker (Dec 26, 2005)

*Solar panels*

The tip about a portable solar panel plugged into the ciggie lighter is useful - but if your Mh has solar panels fitted on the roof do these do the same job all the time automatically?

Harry


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Dangler said:


> thanks Dave - this then could be the answer to my problems and even sounds easy enough for me to fit, though the 30 quid fitting charge is hardly extortionate. I shall have a closer look at this I think.


It also depends on how far you have to travel to get it done?

peedee


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

If you are uncomfortable connecting a single (red?) wire (with the Battery Master in the middle) between the two battery positive terminals, and a (black?) from the Battery Master to a suitable earthing point, your local garage can do this for you at minimal cost. How much will depend on the distance between your batteries and the difficulty of routing the cable. Have a think about this in advance and provide access for them if you can. 

Dave


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi, The easiest way is to make the connections at the existing split charge relay, as there will already be a reasonable connection to each battery and a good ground. The Battery Master is internally fused automatically and therefore no additional fuse would be required. 

Soldering to the existing wires is the best way to make the connections

Hope that this helps

Eddie


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

peedee said:


> Surely out of 8000 plus members someone is using a Battery Master.
> Does no one have any comments about them?
> 
> How long have you had it ?
> ...


Sorry peedee but somehow I missed this thread.

We have a Battery Master which was fitted by VanBitz when we had our alarm fitted.
I can't say that I understand how it works although it does.

We are able to keep our van outside our house so plugging it into the mains overnight a couple of times a week is no problem.
We have never had a problem with starting the van even though we don't use it enough in winter and it doesn't get taken for runs or even have the engine started regularly. (I know......don't tell me  )


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Eddie,

Thanks. Good point. I should have clarified electrical connection, not necessarily physical.

I think this is a suitable point  to mention that some Battery Masters were kindly on offer here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-10351-0-days0-orderasc-.html
> Photos <

I did mention to nuke that he ought either to decide or extend. Followers of this thread might like to lobby, search their photo library, or whatever!

I'd like one merely to ensure my solar panel tops up the vehicle battery, too. When in winter as now mains hook up at home supplies an independent 4A supply to the vehicle battery, but at other times there is no need for hookup. I hope I'll be using it too regularly for it to be an issue, but it would be one less thing to think about.

Dave


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Dave, 
Shows how poor my memory is! I had forgotten about the photo competition.

Thanks for your comments Eddie, If you wouldn't mind answering a further question, what is to stop the leisure batteries becoming discharged in the event of a faulty vehicle battery? Should one increase the frequency of battery checks which I must admit I only do a couple of times a year.

I'll get one one day but right now I have other priorities for my cash and it will have to wait a while longer.

peedee


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Eddie, that's excellent advice thank you. Peedee, yes travelling is a thought. Dave what makes me nervous about doing things like this is not conecting the battery master but pulling apart bits of my van to route cables etc... that's why I'd rather let someone used to doing it do it.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

But, as Eddie rightly points out, you don't have to rip things apart. Under the bonnet you will have thick cables between the alternator, vehicle battery, split charge relay and onto the leisure battery. You need not run a separate cable all of the way between the batteries, just tap into those that already go there.

Dave


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi PeeDee

The leisure battery cannot power the Battery Master when it is discharged, so in practice the whole lot just shuts down in the event of a faulty engine battery.

Hi Dangler

As for fitting it is really easy most of the time, we allow about one hour workshop time for installation. Sometimes it takes us 15 minutes sometimes it can take a couple of hours. Most UK vans are fairly straightforward, some European vans can be a nightmare.

You can try to win a Battery Master in Nuke's MHF pennant competition or buy one at www.outdoorbits.com You can order it with or without fitting.

Cheers

Eddie

ps Does anyone know any good campsites in Croatia with moorings?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Eddie,

Preluk campsite has moorings.
http://www.opatija.net/kampovi.asp
http://www.inyourpocket.com/croatia/rijeka/en/category?cid=57916
http://www.visit-croatia.co.uk/holidays/

http://www.auto-camp-banja.tk/

Looks promising, but not explicit::
http://www.korcula-croatia.com/camp-kalac.htm
http://www.orasac.com/sadrzaj.htm

http://campingcroatia.net/

Dave


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

eddievanbitz said:


> ps Does anyone know any good campsites in Croatia with moorings?


Eddie 
You might get a better response to your queston if you asked it again as a 'stand alone' in a different forum.
Perhaps 'good campsites in Croatia with moorings' in Continental Touring Info

There may well be members who could help but who are not reading this thread.

biggermac has been to Croatia, I believe and a PM might get you some information. To find his PM have look in the topic below, which contains posts from him.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-87657-.html#87657


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Gillian I PM'd Dave and thanked him for the links, and as we had gone off topic, I thought that we would be told off if we continued! We are planning on going with Mike and Jules from JMB Additions in the summer so will post a new enquiry on the subject.

It is on topic really though coz Mike and Jules and Lyn and I have got Battery Masters fitted in the vans that we will be going to Croatia in! :lol:


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Right, I'm gonna have a look at what's what and where next time the van's out of storage and if I think I can do it will buy one. If not I'll pay for the fitting (it's an awkward continental van :lol: ) and plan the trip as part of a break.


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## 96987 (Dec 19, 2005)

Does anyone have any idea whats wrong with my battery??

Had motorhome away for a week - back monday. Went to start is up on Wednesday and it was as flat. Had to get AA to start it. On thursday the leisure battery in the back of the coach went dead i.e. lights, computer board - nothing would work. Plugged into the electric and everything came back on. Charged it pluged into mains for two days and when we unpluged it from the mains thinking it was fully charged it is totally dead again. Yet when it is plugged in the computer board states that the battery is fully charged. The motorhome is only six months old. Anyone any ideas????


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## 96962 (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi Sandyg

unfortunately I hve no idea (sounds like a faulty charger unit to my uneducated electrical mind) but to get maximum response I would repost this as a new thread with a different title.


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## 96987 (Dec 19, 2005)

Will do, Thanks.


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## 97323 (Jan 17, 2006)

*Negative Terminal Clip*

We keep our van in storage and whilst taking it out for a spin last week I got talking to the site owner. He saya all the vans he store get flat batteries so some people have staed disconnecting the negative terminal. Apparently one guy has had the normal cable end removed and a special clip has been attached making t he removal/reconnecting of the negative very simple. Anyone heard of such a gadget?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

You mean quick release battery clamps? Under £7 a pair.
http://www.towsure.com/default.asp?t=246

Dave


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi All 
The ciggy lighter solar panel is a good idea providing you are not under cover and your vehicle is not a Fiat based one as the battery is isolated when no ignition key is in its hole. It is not un-common for a new battery to have a severe case of sulphation after being drained to dead. 
with kind regards 
Richard863


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

One thing worth considering is finding out what else is 'on'. You might be surprised obviously an alarm if fitted but what else? If you have a habitation fusebox take each fuse out in turn and put a ammeter in. In a small van I found the tv was on standby, and the electric control unit led was lit. Only a few mA each but when on 24/7 it mounts up.

When you drive it into the storage do you then go in the back with all lights blazing while you take out all the bits and bobs?

The battery even if disconnected will self-discharge as well. All things considered I'm glad that I only have one vehicle so it never goes into storage.


Frank


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## 97078 (Dec 30, 2005)

*Flat battery*

Had a big problem with my 2.8 Fiat going flat anywhere from 7-14 days.Went to Southdowns in chichester last week after it baffled everybody else as to why.2 very technical guys spent 3hours checking everything possible in the wiring.They eventually found that a multipin plug & socket under the dash was not making proper contact on just 1 pin.Simple as that but it took some finding.I had a battery master fitted while there & both batteries have remained fully charged since.I was very impressed with their knowledge of vehicle electrics, M/homes are much more complex than an average car.My liesure battery which was always fully charged now ofloads its surplus to keep the engine battery fully charged.


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## 97078 (Dec 30, 2005)

*battery master*

Peedee see my reply to flat battery problem in Technical


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

*Flat Batteries*

Glad you got the problem sorted out Pipa. Only last week, when I went out to routinely start my van, it had a flat engine battery. It was fine 3 weeks ago but it was so low the central locking wouldn't operate. This cold spell has really been playing havoc with my vehicle batteries when they are so little used. Enough is enough, so I went out and bought a new battery charger, one with an automatic maintenance facility on it and powerful enough to cope with all my batteries and, I ordered a Battery Master. It arrived the next day and I fitted it over the weekend. The most diffcicult part is identifing the wiring and proving you have located the leisure battery wire on the split relay. Still an easy job though and it was very kind of Mercedes to leave two convenient holes on the battery mounting box for me to use a cable tie and the suppiled velcro pads to mount the BM 

It should be easy enough to remove too if I ever get round to changing vans.

peedee


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## kipperkid (May 16, 2005)

yes, we've got one but only had it 3 weeks, so too soon to give a verdict on it really. First impressions look promising, but....

Had it installed since I haven't a clue about electrics.


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## trigrem (May 1, 2005)

Hi Peedee
Yes we have had a Battery Master on our last three vans, I transfered them when I changed, easy to install if you are electricaly competent.Find it invaluable when on storage site and also when on sites with the grandchildren, when we do not have hook up for 10days, the van still starts. Recently we went to New Zealand fo 7 weeks and left the van on storage site with alarm and immobiliser activated, no problems starting on return. I do have a 110AH leasure battery which helps.
Doug


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