# Theft of catalytic converters.



## peedee

Today, there are warnings in our local press about the increase in the incidence of this type of theft in the area plus I have had a letter from my local Merc dealers pointing out the same and offering a CATLock for £187! 

At least two MHF members have posted they have experienced these type of thefts. Did it really cost £2000 or thereabouts to replace?

peedee


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## peribro

From recollection most people have mentioned somewhere around the £900 to £1000 mark to replace the cat. I've also yet to see anyone be effusive in their praise for any of the deterrents. It seems that many of the lockable devices can be removed / cut into quite easily. The best advice seems to be to make it very difficult for the potential thief to get under the van. I haven't yet worked out how to do that though!


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## HeatherChloe

peedee said:


> At least two MHF members have posted they have experienced these type of thefts. Did it really cost £2000 or thereabouts to replace?


Yes. The bill from the garage for labour and various parts was over a thousand, and the catalytic convertor I bought second hand from a salvage merchants for £480. New would have been about £900.

I have the catclamp now. It's worth it.


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## HeatherChloe

peribro said:


> It seems that many of the lockable devices can be removed / cut into quite easily. The best advice seems to be to make it very difficult for the potential thief to get under the van. I haven't yet worked out how to do that though!


I disagree.

The catclamp wraps loads of metal cable all over the catalytic convertor, and it would take ages to cut.

Whereas most catalytic convertors are attached with simple bolts which take moments to undo.

I would definitely get the catclamp - I feel much more confident now that an opportunist thief (which is what happened before) could sneak under and take it. A thief would now need a lot of tools and take a long long time.


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## Wupert

peribro said:


> From recollection most people have mentioned somewhere around the £900 to £1000 mark to replace the cat. I've also yet to see anyone be effusive in their praise for any of the deterrents. It seems that many of the lockable devices can be removed / cut into quite easily. The best advice seems to be to make it very difficult for the potential thief to get under the van. I haven't yet worked out how to do that though!


Take the wheels off


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## autostratus

Wupert said:


> peribro said:
> 
> 
> 
> From recollection most people have mentioned somewhere around the £900 to £1000 mark to replace the cat. I've also yet to see anyone be effusive in their praise for any of the deterrents. It seems that many of the lockable devices can be removed / cut into quite easily. The best advice seems to be to make it very difficult for the potential thief to get under the van. I haven't yet worked out how to do that though!
> 
> 
> 
> Take the wheels off
Click to expand...

Useful onformation but this is probably more useful. 
 CATALYTIC CONVERTER CATLOCK ANTI THEFT CLAMP CAT LOCK


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## subfiver

*Catclamp*

I watched the video on the catclamp website, 
www.catclamp.com and can see how the catclamp (a) imposes little strain on the cat (b) won't affect the cat's temperature but I can't see how the cable ends are secured after the "cat's cradle" (pun intended!) is complete.

Can Heather, or anyone else, elucidate please ??

Cheers 'n' Beers

EDIT: Doh! figured it out now - by listening as well ....


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## Stanner

peribro said:


> From recollection most people have mentioned somewhere around the £900 to £1000 mark to replace the cat. I've also yet to see anyone be effusive in their praise for any of the deterrents. It seems that many of the lockable devices can be removed / cut into quite easily. The best advice seems to be to make it very difficult for the potential thief to get under the van. I haven't yet worked out how to do that though!


Let the tyres down? :wink:


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## zack

Heather, I prefer the look of the catclamp to the Catlock but would be interested how they attached it to your van as I have no suitable fixing points and believe I may have to have fixing points welded on. I believe this would put the opportunist thief off trying to remove the cat and take my word I have had enough dealings with car thieves in a previous occupation


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## airstream

*£120!!!!*

Hi,
Decat pipe on ebay Item number: 250924797305

CITROEN RELAY*FIAT DUCATO*PEUGEOT BOXER CAT CATALYST CONVERTER REPLACEMENT PIPE
HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CATALYST CONVERTER STOLEN? PREVENT IT

Its £120 lot of cash for a bit of pipe and a flange but cheaper than a new cat

Still not had time to make one up myself

Ray


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## zack

Unfortunately not legal to drive on road with this.Fine if stopped by VOSA etc


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## HeatherChloe

zack said:


> Heather, I prefer the look of the catclamp to the Catlock but would be interested how they attached it to your van as I have no suitable fixing points and believe I may have to have fixing points welded on. I believe this would put the opportunist thief off trying to remove the cat and take my word I have had enough dealings with car thieves in a previous occupation


It comes with its own fixings. It's something like two end pieces which go round either end of the cat, and then you lace the steel through. I got the garage to do it for me. But if you phone the catclamp company, they'll explain it to you - they're very helpful.

And of course, it comes with instructions.


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## HeatherChloe

zack said:


> Unfortunately not legal to drive on road with this.Fine if stopped by VOSA etc


We've had this discussion before. It is not illegal. You are allowed to drive without a catalytic convertor. What you have to make sure is that your vehicle passes the emissions tests - a catalytic convertor might not be required to pass the test - depends upon your engine, how new it is, etc.


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## Stanner

HeatherChloe said:


> zack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not legal to drive on road with this.Fine if stopped by VOSA etc
> 
> 
> 
> We've had this discussion before. It is not illegal. You are allowed to drive without a catalytic convertor. What you have to make sure is that your vehicle passes the emissions tests - a catalytic convertor might not be required to pass the test - depends upon your engine, how new it is, etc.
Click to expand...

Exactly - it's also illegal to drive with foglights on if it isn't foggy.
:roll:

Anybody in a motorhome ever been stopped by VOSA? :?


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## rowley

Catclamp video






I am trying to think of an alternate solution!


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## zack

Yes have seen the video and e mailed the owner of the company in the states. however after being under my vehicle there are no suitable existing supports in which to run the cables hence now looking for alternative fixing method or device


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## HeatherChloe

zack said:


> Yes have seen the video and e mailed the owner of the company in the states. however after being under my vehicle there are no suitable existing supports in which to run the cables hence now looking for alternative fixing method or device


I think you're making a mistake of how it works.

You fit the round "collars" around the pipes and these are the supports in which you run the cables. The collars are supplied as part of the clamp.

They just go round your pipework. No supports are needed.


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## emmbeedee

HeatherChloe said:


> zack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes have seen the video and e mailed the owner of the company in the states. however after being under my vehicle there are no suitable existing supports in which to run the cables hence now looking for alternative fixing method or device
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're making a mistake of how it works.
> 
> You fit the round "collars" around the pipes and these are the supports in which you run the cables. The collars are supplied as part of the clamp.
> 
> They just go round your pipework. No supports are needed.
Click to expand...

So, what is to stop the thieves just cutting your pipework beyond the "collars" & removing the cat complete with the catclamp & connecting pipes? 
They don't bother with undoing bolts, etc., they just use one of the ratchet cutting tools, almost silent in operation & away they go.
I read in our local paper that there is a gang of Rumanian criminals organising these thefts. Another thing to blame Bliar for.


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## zack

Thanks Emmbeddee, you are correct the idea of the cables is that they should be wrapped around something substantial and not removeable ie the chassis thus forming a cradle so that if either of the pipes leading to the cat are cut then it would be retained within the wire cradle. This would be too difficult and time consuming. HeatherI would suggest that you look under your van to make sure they have done this otherwise the thieves would get the cat and the cat clamp.


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## erneboy

Have the thieves been arrested since the local paper knows who they are? Alan.


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## NeilandDebs

*Cats*

Hello all,

Here's a thought. Why not have the cat nuts and bolts spot welded or get some of that metal glue stuff that you mix together that goes rock hard when it sets and put that on the cat nuts and bolts. It would stop the cat thief simply unscrewing the said nuts and bolts. When and if you ever have to change it then the garage would simply grind of either of the above two remedies.

I accept that if thiefman is going to cut pipe then you will be stuffed. But in my opinion, if he is going to be prepered to make the noise of cutting the he will cut off the deterents mentioned in other posts. And at least you can say to the insurance people that you had a go at protecting your cat!

Neil


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## Blizzard

A little relief for MH owners in the NE at the moment - Ford Rangers are currently top of the 'Cat Theft' league.

Someone out there has obviously clicked on them being an easy target.


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## erneboy

Not that I am thinking of stealing anything but if I was I would carry only one tool, this: http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Exhaust-Pipe-Cutter-Sealey-AK6838?sc=9&category=383

Pipe cut and gone in less than a minute, no need for spanners, sockets etc. and very much much faster. I imagine removing the bolts could be cumbersome and might take up to ten minutes.

I also think the cat clamp wires would be easily cut with bolt cutters although who would bother to carry those? Alan.


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## flyingpig

With the greatest of respect to all, I think this topic has been well discussed now to the point of boredom!
Lets face facts, if Mr Robin Scrote-Barsteward wants your cat, and he is professional enough to make the thievery pay well, he is going to get it no matter what you do (bit like a pro car thief), all you can do is protect your cat from the "casual" opportunist. I reckon the nut weld option is good enough to stop the "casual" type, unless he's carrying his pipe cutter / cable cutter / welding kit / tool box.... (Sorry, descending into nuerosis.............
I was a victim last year , £800+ bill, and due to demand a 6 week wait from Fiat for a new cat!

Minor rant over, apologies once again if I have offended anyone. 8O 

Ken (flyingpig)

Edit. Sorry, I should have made clear the fact that my cat when stolen had no protection. Nuts removed and bracket undone, cat gone!
Nuts now welded (on the cat, not mine!!)


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## emmbeedee

erneboy said:


> Have the thieves been arrested since the local paper knows who they are? Alan.


Alan, despite having searched I cannot find the article I read a few days ago. IIRC the paper said the Police were attempting to catch the gang, who they identified as Romanian. If I do find it I will post it here.
I did find this article, this one was not so lucky:
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...-metal-thief-sought-by-police-97319-29844696/


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## emmbeedee

erneboy said:


> Have the thieves been arrested since the local paper knows who they are? Alan.


OK, Alan, I found the article, here it is, in a national not a local paper which is why I had difficulty finding it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-metal-theft-cost-plunder-hits-770m-year.html


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## erneboy

Thanks emmbeedee. I wonder if the work just takes too much effort to appeal to home grown "gangsters"?

Regardless, I would take anything I read in the Mail with a pinch of salt, Alan.


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## teemyob

*foggy*



Stanner said:


> HeatherChloe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not legal to drive on road with this.Fine if stopped by VOSA etc
> 
> 
> 
> We've had this discussion before. It is not illegal. You are allowed to drive without a catalytic convertor. What you have to make sure is that your vehicle passes the emissions tests - a catalytic convertor might not be required to pass the test - depends upon your engine, how new it is, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly - it's also illegal to drive with foglights on if it isn't foggy.
> :roll:
> 
> Anybody in a motorhome ever been stopped by VOSA? :?
Click to expand...

Or whilst using a handheld mobile phone in a car with darkened front side windows.


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## emmbeedee

erneboy said:


> Thanks emmbeedee. I wonder if the work just takes too much effort to appeal to home grown "gangsters"?
> 
> Regardless, I would take anything I read in the Mail with a pinch of salt, Alan.


Fair enough, Alan, but they do quote a named Police officer, so it has more credibility than some of the tabloid stories.
Whilst on this topic, I cannot understand why our MP's are taking so long to address the problem. There was a proposal several years ago, when Jacqui Smith was Home Secretary, to ban the use of cash at scrapyards. Instead, payments would be made only by cheque, sent by post to the registered address of the vendor, or by bank transfer. Dear Jacqui failed to do anything (she was my MP BTW), & the new lot haven't either. There is now an e-petition on the subject. I have signed it & I hope all members on here have also. IMHO, the only way to tackle the issue is at the scrapyard level.
I don't suppose you have visited any scrapyards here recently but I have & been amazed at the huge amounts of cash being exchanged. Big bundles of notes sometimes. They are supposed to record your name & address but this is done in a very perfunctory way, for instance, I am described as "Michael from Redditch". Yes, they take your vehicle registration number, but again our "system" is very poor & little help in tracing determined thieves.


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## erneboy

Yes, fixing the scrap yards work is the way to stop it I think. Many are very Del Boy in the way they operate, Alan.


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## NeilandDebs

*Scrapyards*

Hello Emmbeedee

How do I find this e-petition so that I can sign it!

Neil


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## erneboy

Here it is: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406


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## larrywatters

OK all three of us have signed, lets hope it will start a landslid against the scum that steal my cat, cut my phone lines,cut my power line, stop trains. just wish we had the power to string them up for the hurt they have caused 
. :evil: :twisted:


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## adgy

Just added my name.

Cheers


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## 96299

All signed up.

Steve


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## Webbs

We had 15 cats stolen from our forecourt at the beginning of this year along with a Webasto water pump. I don't think I need to go into how much that cost us to resolve.

The way we have stopped this from happening now, is to just take the cats off of the vehicles untill we need them.

I know it may seem daunting for some, but if you know you are not going to use the vehicle for any significant amount of time, *remove* the cat completely. If you don't know how, just get someone who is handy with their hands, because it isn't hard to do.

In regards to the catlocks, etc. i haven't looked into them to be honest, but I know from experience with wheel clamps and hitchlocks...If someone really wants it, they are gonna have it! Cat lock or not.


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## SpeedyDux

If tighter regulation is imposed on UK scrap merchants then all that will happen is that the organised criminal gangs will switch to exporting stolen Cats loaded inside shipping containers, direct to China. 

The best way to stop the Cat and copper cable theft would be to impose swingeing jail sentences on the metal thieves. Then they would change to a less risky area of crime. Heavier sentences have all but stamped out bank and building society robbery which used to be rampant. 

SD


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## oilslick

*Fishing hooks*

I think we should hang about 10 fishing hooks down all around the Cat! :lol:


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## goldi

Afternoon folks,
Buying secondhand cats might make the problem worse.



norm


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## erneboy

There is some truth in that SD.

However if metal cannot be traded without a paper trail then low level criminals would not have a ready market for their spoils. In addition they would hardly be likely to stockpile stolen metals till they had a container full. Even if they did they would need to be able to set up contacts in China or wherever to buy the goods and they would most likely have to be able to fund the whole operation including the cost of shipping the goods. 

Finally you can't just ship stuff to China or anywhere else. Documentation is required to accompany shipments. Of course they could lie and say they were exporting turnips but that would rely on there being no checks on cargo and would carry risks too.

While tightening up on scrap yards does not guarantee a fix to the problem it does go a long way towards it I think, Alan.


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## rayc

This site advertises the 2.2 X250 cat at less than £300. I don't see why it would not fit the 2.3 as well.

http://www.cats2u.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=34008


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## rowley

Ray, that link is for the 2.3 engine, it looks as though it is the same as the one for the Citroen Relay 2.2


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## rayc

rowley said:


> Ray, that link is for the 2.3 engine, it looks as though it is the same as the one for the Citroen Relay 2.2


I noted that, the Fiat X250 handbook shows the 2.3 120BHP engine as type F1AE0481D with the same number but N at the end for 2.3 130BHP


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## emmbeedee

*Re: Scrapyards*



NeilandDebs said:


> Hello Emmbeedee
> 
> How do I find this e-petition so that I can sign it!
> 
> Neil


Hi, Neil, Alan (Erneboy) has posted a link on a new thread.

See here:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-117366.html

Apologies, hadn't read further down the thread!


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## HeatherChloe

rayc said:


> This site advertises the 2.2 X250 cat at less than £300. I don't see why it would not fit the 2.3 as well.


I'm no expert, but when my cat was stolen, I realised that there were a lot of parts. Eg the price of a cat as quoted doesn't include the price of the sensor inside the cat, and there are other various parts which need replacing when they nick something, that adds up to more than just the cat price.


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## HeatherChloe

Webbs said:


> The way we have stopped this from happening now, is to just take the cats off of the vehicles untill we need them.
> 
> I know it may seem daunting for some, but if you know you are not going to use the vehicle for any significant amount of time, *remove* the cat completely. If you don't know how, just get someone who is handy with their hands, because it isn't hard to do.
> 
> In regards to the catlocks, etc. i haven't looked into them to be honest, but I know from experience with wheel clamps and hitchlocks...If someone really wants it, they are gonna have it! Cat lock or not.


When I had mine stolen, I had gone to a friend's house for dinner, a place I had never driven to before, and I was parked right outside the front window in a terraced house with no front garden, with the front curtains open. I was there for less than 3 hours. I also have a Cobra alarm which was not triggered by the movement.

The theft was completely opportunistic by a passer by and there would be no chance of me taking off my cat every time I park the van up for an hour or two.

However, with my new cat clamp, it is a formidable sight, and I feel confident about parking anywhere without losing it.

Obviously, if you're a dealer and there are motorhomes all the time, then they might come prepared and spend some time cutting and loading up all of those cats.

But for everyone else, I honestly think having a cat clamp makes a massive difference. And it is really cheap.


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## Webbs

I agree heatherChloe, anything that will act as a deterent is always a good idea. The point I was making is that if someone wants something, they will have it, catlock or not.


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## goldi

Afternoo folks,
could get air suspension fitted and then drop it right down when parked . 

norm


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## NeilandDebs

*Cats*

Signed up today, still need 52000 more signatures. Any chance that those in charge can give this subject an airing every month or so asking all our members to sign up.

Also maybe as a club contacting other interested parties clubs asking them to have their members sign up.

If we as a very large club can do something it might get other clubs to do something. Just a thought.
Neil


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## Jezport

*Re: £120!!!!*



airstream said:


> Hi,
> Decat pipe on ebay Item number: 250924797305
> 
> CITROEN RELAY*FIAT DUCATO*PEUGEOT BOXER CAT CATALYST CONVERTER REPLACEMENT PIPE
> HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CATALYST CONVERTER STOLEN? PREVENT IT
> 
> Its £120 lot of cash for a bit of pipe and a flange but cheaper than a new cat
> 
> Still not had time to make one up myself
> 
> Ray


This is the best option. As you dont need a CAT for an MOT on a diesel van.


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## airstream

*CAT BYPASS*

Hi,
Update on cat bypass pipe on ebay
I have been in contact with the seller stating that the cost he was asking £120 was far to high and emailed him the last sellers advert that had the pipe at £45 
The seller on ebay offered to sell at £80 - still to high as comprable pipes in stainless steel are selling for under £60 and I can get a full system for my Herald for less
THe seller has dropped the price on ebay to £100 with a best offer option 
I may just offer £50 near the end of the auction as at this price its not worth getting the welder out
Ray


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## rayc

*Re: £120!!!!*



Jezport said:


> airstream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> Decat pipe on ebay Item number: 250924797305
> 
> CITROEN RELAY*FIAT DUCATO*PEUGEOT BOXER CAT CATALYST CONVERTER REPLACEMENT PIPE
> HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CATALYST CONVERTER STOLEN? PREVENT IT
> 
> Its £120 lot of cash for a bit of pipe and a flange but cheaper than a new cat
> 
> Still not had time to make one up myself
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> This is the best option. As you dont need a CAT for an MOT on a diesel van.
Click to expand...

You will do to get it through the MOT from the 1st January 2012. It is a newly required check to confirm the cat is there if fitted as original equipment.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

This is interesting:
"Trailer/caravan electrical socket
There will be a basic security/damage check of 7-pin sockets,

13-pin sockets will be subject to a full electrical connectivity check and incorrectly connected or inoperative circuits will result in failure".


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## HeatherChloe

*Re: £120!!!!*



rayc said:


> [You will do to get it through the MOT from the 1st January 2012. It is a newly required check to confirm the cat is there if fitted as original equipment.


do you have a link to this change?

when I checked the MOT rules in April, it was not a requirement, so presumably there has been a change since then?


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## rayc

*Re: £120!!!!*



HeatherChloe said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> [You will do to get it through the MOT from the 1st January 2012. It is a newly required check to confirm the cat is there if fitted as original equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> do you have a link to this change?
> 
> when I checked the MOT rules in April, it was not a requirement, so presumably there has been a change since then?
Click to expand...

As I said it is a new requirement coming into force in January 2012.
My post shows a link to the AA information sheet.

A search for 'new MOT 2012' will give hundreds of hits, some more detailed than others.


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## airstream

*MOT?*

I checked last week whilst my MH was having its MOT (with CAT in place)

The tester stated that the new requirement did not apply to diesels and wrote down the actual text from VOSA form

Method of Inspection 
On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.

Reason for Rejection 
A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard

Tester stated that diesels do not qualify for a full emissions test so no problem

He also stated that the smoke test is more exacting for vehicles first used after (I think he said) July 2008 but he was still passing decatted Range/Land Rovers without any problems meeting the smoke test limits

However if you simply replace your cat for the MOT no problem? and your X250 even without its CAT will be cleaner than earlier models

Regards Ray


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## Fleettalk

peedee said:


> Today, there are warnings in our local press about the increase in the incidence of this type of theft in the area plus I have had a letter from my local Merc dealers pointing out the same and offering a CATLock for £187!
> 
> At least two MHF members have posted they have experienced these type of thefts. Did it really cost £2000 or thereabouts to replace?
> 
> peedee


Good morning!

Cat thefts are a huge problem and we are seeing more motorhomes being targeted. We are the UK distributer for the CatClamp. It is a fantastic deterrent which is more robust than any other product on the market. Please visit Catsafe for more information. We would love to earn your business and help protect your asset!

Thank you,

Kevin Heater


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## rayc

Fleettalk said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today, there are warnings in our local press about the increase in the incidence of this type of theft in the area plus I have had a letter from my local Merc dealers pointing out the same and offering a CATLock for £187!
> 
> At least two MHF members have posted they have experienced these type of thefts. Did it really cost £2000 or thereabouts to replace?
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning!
> 
> Cat thefts are a huge problem and we are seeing more motorhomes being targeted. We are the UK distributer for the CatClamp. It is a fantastic deterrent which is more robust than any other product on the market. Please visit Catsafe for more information. We would love to earn your business and help protect your asset!
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Kevin Heater
Click to expand...

Kevin, The Fiat/Peugot / Citroen X250 range is by far the most popular motorhome chassis in current production. What is your recommended method of fitting considering there is no chassis fixing readily available? Can you supply a photo of one fitted to an X250 chassis? is it true that the chassis requires drilling to fit the catclamp?
When I investigated fitting one I enquired from you of a catclamp recommended fitting agent local to Southampton. You had only apparently supplied one to a garage near Romsey. I enquired from them and the owner said it was a waste of time and difficult to fix.
Have you now got a list of recommended installers?
Ray


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## nukeadmin

Our very own Outdoorbits sells the Armacat Product which fits Mercedes Sprinter / Fiat Ducato / Peugeot Boxer / Renault Master and Ford Transits


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## HeatherChloe

rayc said:


> Kevin, The Fiat/Peugot / Citroen X250 range is by far the most popular motorhome chassis in current production. What is your recommended method of fitting considering there is no chassis fixing readily available? Can you supply a photo of one fitted to an X250 chassis? is it true that the chassis requires drilling to fit the catclamp?
> When I investigated fitting one I enquired from you of a catclamp recommended fitting agent local to Southampton. You had only apparently supplied one to a garage near Romsey. I enquired from them and the owner said it was a waste of time and difficult to fix.
> Have you now got a list of recommended installers?
> Ray


I still don't understand why you think this is so hard.

The cat clamp comes with two simple collars which fit around the pipes.

They made it clear that you don't need to be a specialist - anyone can fit it. That is to say, it's made so that a normal person can fit it, and no specialist fitter is required.

I had a regular garage fit it (as I didn't fancy it) and they did it no trouble and charged me nothing for fitting it.

I have a basic Fiat Ducato van and no drilling is required.

I'll try to take some photos of it in place, if you like.


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## chasper

What he means, i think is that the cable should be threaded round some of the chassis members, so that even if you unbolted the cat or cut the pipe either side of the Catclamp you still would not be able to remove the cat.


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## rayc

HeatherChloe said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin, The Fiat/Peugot / Citroen X250 range is by far the most popular motorhome chassis in current production. What is your recommended method of fitting considering there is no chassis fixing readily available? Can you supply a photo of one fitted to an X250 chassis? is it true that the chassis requires drilling to fit the catclamp?
> When I investigated fitting one I enquired from you of a catclamp recommended fitting agent local to Southampton. You had only apparently supplied one to a garage near Romsey. I enquired from them and the owner said it was a waste of time and difficult to fix.
> Have you now got a list of recommended installers?
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't understand why you think this is so hard.
> 
> The cat clamp comes with two simple collars which fit around the pipes.
> 
> They made it clear that you don't need to be a specialist - anyone can fit it. That is to say, it's made so that a normal person can fit it, and no specialist fitter is required.
> 
> I had a regular garage fit it (as I didn't fancy it) and they did it no trouble and charged me nothing for fitting it.
> 
> I have a basic Fiat Ducato van and no drilling is required.
> 
> I'll try to take some photos of it in place, if you like.
Click to expand...

I never said it was hard. I bought one from them and decided it was not for me and sold it on ebay at a slight loss but not a problem. You would think though that a specialist who sells a product specifically aimed at the MH market would have a few photos of one fitted to a fiat X250 and a 'recommended' method of fitting the cable to the chassis. It may be sold as a DIY item but in my own opinion it would be difficult to fit it without access to a ramp or pit. I would have thought that catclamp would have some approved fitters spread around the country.
I appreciate you think they and catclamp as a company are very good and you are entitled to that point of view which I don't dispute. If I had wanted to I am sure I could have fitted their product to my MH without too much difficulty but as I said you need a pit or ramp or some other way of getting the room to work below the MH.
If Kevin is keen to continue to promote his product on MHF I am sure he is capable of answering the couple of comments I made.
Ray


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Ray

Just for interest . . . . 

How long do you think it would take to get a Cat off when fitted with one of these gadgets - assuming you are a "professional" thief who doesn't care how much damage he does to the van?

I won't say how I would do it for obvious reasons, but there would be almost no noise. 8) 

It might even be easier to nick the Cat than fit the gadget?? :roll: 

Dave


----------



## rayc

Zebedee said:


> Hi Ray
> 
> Just for interest . . . .
> 
> How long do you think it would take to get a Cat off when fitted with one of these gadgets - assuming you are a "professional" thief who doesn't care how much damage he does to the van?
> 
> I won't say how I would do it for obvious reasons, but there would be almost no noise. 8)
> 
> It might even be easier to nick the Cat than fit the gadget?? :roll:
> 
> Dave


Dave, I have not personally tried to remove one and catclamp boast a proud record of not having a single claim when it is fitted and registered correctly with them.
I think it would deter a opportunist thief because the ground clearance would be a limiting factor. For someone who has privacy and room to work then in my opinion less than 10 minutes.
Ray


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Ray

Interesting. :wink:

You have mirrored my thoughts in every detail - except that I think 10 minutes would give the professional scrote more than enough time.

It's a very good deterrent for the opportunist, but if the returns are high enough the pro's will soon spoil the company's proud record. :roll:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
Purely for further interest, my highly qualified metallurgy tutor at university told us of how he worked on developing tank armour during the second world war.

His team would fit a tank with their latest armour . . . then immediately send it to be tested by a parallel team who were developing the latest armour piercing shells. 8)

Similar thing with security of any kind and the scrotes who want to break through it. As the security gets better, the scrotes get smarter!!

Dave


----------



## spatz1

i just dont buy the idea of spending £300 on a cat clamp any theif able to work undisturbed will get if he wants to.....

We use alarms to deter entry and theft from so i just dont get why no one is fitting a microwave sensor inside the van above the cat as they are specificly designed to see through solid objects and are perfectly capable of detecting the theft off or movement under the van....
Would you go on attempting to steal a cat with the van alarm going??
They can also be used to protect the ladder to the roof etc....

Easy to DIY wire into the alarm and at £15 what are you waiting for ????


----------



## HeatherChloe

spatz1 said:


> i just dont buy the idea of spending £300 on a cat clamp any theif able to work undisturbed will get if he wants to.....
> 
> We use alarms to deter entry and theft from so i just dont get why no one is fitting a microwave sensor inside the van above the cat as they are specificly designed to see through solid objects and are perfectly capable of detecting the theft off or movement under the van....
> Would you go on attempting to steal a cat with the van alarm going??
> They can also be used to protect the ladder to the roof etc....
> 
> Easy to DIY wire into the alarm and at £15 what are you waiting for ????


My catclamp was £199 I think.

I have an alarm and the van was parked right outside the window (like 4 6 feet) from where I was sitting, and it didn't go off.

It was somewhere I had not parked before and it was an opportunistic theft.

I am convinced that with the catclamp, it would not have happened, I wouldn't have had all the expense and time and stress of trying to replace it time to go on my holiday to France.


----------



## HeatherChloe

rayc said:


> I never said it was hard. I bought one from them and decided it was not for me and sold it on ebay at a slight loss but not a problem. You would think though that a specialist who sells a product specifically aimed at the MH market would have a few photos of one fitted to a fiat X250 and a 'recommended' method of fitting the cable to the chassis.


It comes complete with full fitting instructions and pictures.



rayc said:


> It may be sold as a DIY item but in my own opinion it would be difficult to fit it without access to a ramp or pit. I would have thought that catclamp would have some approved fitters spread around the country.


One of the reasons why cats are stolen off vans is because it is quite easy clearance to see underneath. The catclamp is designed to be fitted without a ramp or a pit. And it's designed to be fitted by a normal person. So why would they have approved fitters? I have bought accessories for my bicycle like lights and a panier rack, but th manufacturers don't have approved fitters, because they are easy to fit. It's supposed to be the same here.

I'll take a photo, as I said before, and show you.


----------



## Zebedee

OK Heather.

We bow to your superior mechanical and technical expertise! :roll: :lol: 

I would be interested to hear how it could be fitted to my van without having to drill a number of large holes in the chassis members.

Ray is absolutely correct - without a pit or suitable ramps it would be a very difficult job, even with a good selection of tools.

Incidentally, why would you expect your alarm to go off when someone was stealing your Cat?

Dave


----------



## spatz1

heatherchloe... 

your alam wont go off as there is nothing to trip it under your van :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

i m suggesting adding a microwave sensor for £15 DIY that detects movement underneath and can be mounted inside the van and coupled into you re existing alarm thus it will go off if some oik has a go at your cat.....

How simple a solution is that...


----------



## Zebedee

spatz1 said:


> . . . a microwave sensor for £15 DIY that detects movement underneath and can be mounted inside the van and coupled into you re existing alarm thus it will go off if some oik has a go at your cat.....
> 
> How simple a solution is that...


Too simple Spatz. :wink: :lol:

I need convincing that microwaves will penetrate the floor of the van . . . and if they will, can the sensitivity be adjusted so every stray tom cat doesn't set it off? 8O 8O

I already have a microwave alarm that cost a great deal more than 15 quid, and it doesn't penetrate the walls of the van, let alone the floor. 8O

This is not a wind-up. If there is such an alarm available, I want one! :wink:

Dave 

P.S. You are quite right about Heather's alarm. Of course it wouldn't have gone off without some sort of triggering mechanism . . . like the nifty microwave jobby you are about to reveal! :wink: :lol: :lol:


----------



## spatz1

zeb....

I used one on a mk1 mr2 20 years ago and they dont false alarm but obviously a cat will set it off, but the sensitivity can be adjusted to some extent..it was mounted behind the back seat and panel ...
Now a days you can buy the sensors dual or single for £15 and they simply couple into any alarm....

If they wont penetrate through the floor they could be mounted in a simple waterproof electrical junction box underneath the van covering the cat...

you can lead a horse to water and all that :lol: :wink: :lol: 

simples


----------



## Zebedee

spatz1 said:


> could be mounted in a simple waterproof electrical junction box underneath the van covering the cat...


Which cat are we talking about now - the Mrs Slocombe kind or the tin one? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Post a link please, to a supplier you would recommend.

I'm always interested in something I've not come across before. Not sure how it will link in with my present alarm though? :wink:

Cheers

Dave


----------



## rayc

HeatherChloe said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was hard. I bought one from them and decided it was not for me and sold it on ebay at a slight loss but not a problem. You would think though that a specialist who sells a product specifically aimed at the MH market would have a few photos of one fitted to a fiat X250 and a 'recommended' method of fitting the cable to the chassis.
> 
> 
> 
> It comes complete with full fitting instructions and pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> rayc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may be sold as a DIY item but in my own opinion it would be difficult to fit it without access to a ramp or pit. I would have thought that catclamp would have some approved fitters spread around the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the reasons why cats are stolen off vans is because it is quite easy clearance to see underneath. The catclamp is designed to be fitted without a ramp or a pit. And it's designed to be fitted by a normal person. So why would they have approved fitters? I have bought accessories for my bicycle like lights and a panier rack, but th manufacturers don't have approved fitters, because they are easy to fit. It's supposed to be the same here.
> 
> I'll take a photo, as I said before, and show you.
Click to expand...

I bow to your technical expertise but having run cables along the underside of my MH I am sure that the catclamp could not be fitted to my MH by me lying on the ground. The aircraft grade wire is not very flexible and in a long length. In my mechanical experience this makes it a difficult job to bend it around the chassis and through the clamps whilst the vehicle is on the ground.
Still I am not going to try so I am quite happy not to argue the point with you. If you compare the fitting of the catclamp to fitting a cycle pannier or lights then so be it. I wonder if your garage fitted it whilst it was on the ramp when your cat was replaced? The paperwork issued with the catclamp insists that photos are supplied of the completed installation. This is presumably for their approval should you claim on the ant-theft clause of the warranty. It is therefore hardly asking too much for them to provide some photos of an approved installation as a template.

From The catclamp website:
"Warranty Registration
To qualify for the warranty you will need to send a digital photograph clearly showing the properly installed CatClamp (ALL MODELS) within 30 days from your invoice date. The pictures can be mailed to our physical address below or e-mailed to [email protected]. Once warranty is approved we will send confirmation of your warranty".

It should hardly difficult for them to explain what "properly installed" means.


----------



## spatz1

Zebedee said:


> spatz1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> could be mounted in a simple waterproof electrical junction box underneath the van covering the cat...
> 
> 
> 
> Which cat are we talking about now - the Mrs Slocombe kind or the tin one? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Post a link please, to a supplier you would recommend.
> 
> I'm always interested in something I've not come across before. Not sure how it will link in with my present alarm though? :wink:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

While "i m free"...

it will link into any of the door/bonnet switches already used on your van just linked in parallel..

simples..


----------



## Zebedee

spatz1 said:


> it will link into any of the door/bonnet switches already used on your van just linked in parallel..
> simples..


Where's the URL then?

Come on you idle toerag - you can't expect a feeble old fart like me to search for it on FleaBay!! :lol: :lol:

Dave


----------



## spatz1

zeb,

even saved you a fiver....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-ALARM...cessories_Safety_Security&hash=item336edd69da

now tell me that wont do a better job than a fancy £300 jobby that a bit od razor wire would replace :lol: :lol:


----------



## Zebedee

Thanks Spatz. 

Will have a look at that gadget.

Dave


----------



## robx5

The tool of choice for the thieves is a hydraulic cutter similar to what the fire brigade have for cutting people out of crashed cars. 

I have one of these and its 2 seconds each cut, and don't make any noise, they would laugh at any clamps on the market. A local van hire place had over a hundred cats stolen and its very common on vans due to more clearance underneath. 

I use it for cutting steel tube and solid copper cable up to 4 inches thick, so a thin wall cat is no problem.


----------



## rayc

robx5 said:


> The tool of choice for the thieves is a hydraulic cutter similar to what the fire brigade have for cutting people out of crashed cars.
> 
> I have one of these and its 2 seconds each cut, and don't make any noise, they would laugh at any clamps on the market. A local van hire place had over a hundred cats stolen and its very common on vans due to more clearance underneath.
> 
> I use it for cutting steel tube and solid copper cable up to 4 inches thick, so a thin wall cat is no problem.


How is it powered?


----------



## robx5

either by petrol generator or electric power supply. 

I have a scrap related business and wont touch cats. A lot of scrap yards wont. They have been ripped off as well, there is a way of washing the precious metals out with acid, and many scrap yards have been stung by this process. 

I wont be signing the e petition, most stolen scrap is stolen by gyspys smack heads and immigrants. I wont deal with any of them. More than likely what they have is stolen, or they bring in crap just to have a look around to see if you have any decent stuff to steel later when you have closed. 

So rather than the e petition, something should be done about the people doing the stealing, I dont claim that all scrap yards are innocent either. 

A lot of yards now have smart water detection in place, this is used to detect stolen material. It leaves a dna which is not visible to the naked eye and can be traced. 

Thats my view anyway.


----------



## motorhomedepot

We have experienced catalyst thefts in the midlands area. As a result we have been able to manufacture a pipe that fits in place of the catalyst when the motorhome is parked up over a period of time.
We then replace your catalyst when you begin using your motorhome again.
Anybody who would like more information on how we do this can either visit our facebook page (motorhome depot) or can give us a call on 01527 60047, guaranteed to be cheaper than replacing a stolen cat


----------



## airstream

*Cost please?*

Hi,
What are we talking about in £ ? Stainless steel "cat bypass " pipes similar to what is required for an X250 sell for less than£50 on ebay and as posted in another post

"Where can I get a Boxer decat pipe"

"Hi,
I gave up looking for a pipe as your comment re rip off prices - cheapest I could find was £90 ish + pp

As in the other post I ended up buying the pipe, bar.studs and plate off ebay and welding them into a simple bypass pipe for my X250

Cost was less than £30 and timewise less than a hour working outside with a cordless drill, mini welder and hand tools

I actualy fitted the pipe today as I was waiting for a flange gasket and some new rubber hangers (two had failed so all X259 owners check yours )

Cat is locked up in case I decide to refit for MOT

I have taken a photo and have the measurements if anyone requires them but need instructions on how to upload a pic

And no I am not making any more - its to cold and to wet here at the marina as we are working on the boat for a while

Good Luck

Ray"
This was me paying over the odds for the materials so I think £50 is for a "production" version wouod be a go-er?

Regards Ray


----------



## tonyblake

How spooky!!!
Only today I took my van down to my local garage. Ok, its not local, its the one that I have used for years with all my cars etc and well trusted.
We discussed the feasibility of putting a protection on to stop the theft of the cat converter.
Included in this discussion was the one mentioned on here.
However, another idea was to phone up the local suppliers which my garage did and a new one would cost....wait for it.....£175.00 including the fixing kit, so on balance I decided, if I was really unlucky and had mine stolen, then I would get a new one where I could easily be paniced into buying something to protect something that would cost me more than the item I am protecting and may never need it anyway.
I have been paniced into buying other things that were a waste of money, as I am sure we all have (ok, some are savvy and never get caught out)
My examples are:- Puncture stop.....£75.00....I got a puncture and it cost me £25.00 for a repair...so how good is that stuff?
Fresh water filter thingy......£can't remember.....fully fitted and had to take off in France because it was only dribbling through and no good for the shower. We now by bottled water.....easy.
Gas alarm........£35.00....I have seen the scare mongering about the thieves who use gas or narcotics (£25.00) and also watched a programme to find out about this item.....apparently an urban myth....someone knows of someone or is a friend of someone who has been a victim but the ACTUAL victims????? Plus I never stay on motorway aires.
Oven cooker...like a pan with a top on it.....£can't remember....tried it....useless...took nearly 2 hours for a jacket spud.....like brand new.....in box
There are also items available that I didn't panic buy but I daresay I will be caught again sometime soon.
I'm sure people who have bought the above will defend their purchase to the hilt (because they paid for it) but I am looking for.....................................


----------



## motorhomedepot

Hi
I agree with what your saying in some respects,however the cost of making a replacement bypass pipe is about £50 max
An aftermaket cat is likely to be about £175 but they are generally ill fitting and contain a lot less precious metals than the original.
Its the thought of some thieving little so and so getting away with stealing it.
But you make a very good point where do you stop!


----------



## Christine600

The Telegraph:

_Gangs in China and Africa are orchestrating metal thefts in Britain, police believe, in a new development in the crime epidemic sweeping the country._

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...yndicates-behind-metal-thefts-in-Britain.html


----------



## Zuma

Just been notified of this alarm system, I have no knowledge of it, but it may be worth considering if it works.

http://www.thechameleongroup.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=30


----------



## Techno100

A cat for mine is not going to cripple me (if the worst should happen). Much cheaper than I envisaged.
Type approved too

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190614529...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2463wt_1392


----------



## emmbeedee

Here's one gang of metal thieves who've been caught:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18243271
Don't know if they've been doing cats as well though.


----------



## Arrachogaidh

I agree that if you have one catalytic convertor stolen the replacement cost is less than the cost of a security system. I have however heard of people being targetted more than once. This then makes a protection system more economical.


----------



## rayc

emmbeedee said:


> Here's one gang of metal thieves who've been caught:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18243271
> Don't know if they've been doing cats as well though.


I wonder how they got UK Border Agency authorisation for their emplyment. Perhaps they claimed that they were self employed.
Nice to know that the EU free employment laws are working.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Understandingyourworkstatus/Migrantworkers/DG_181870

European Union member states
"If you are from one of the new European Union (EU) member states, either Bulgaria or Romania, then you may need to register or ask permission.

If you are a Bulgarian or Romanian national you may be subject to worker authorisation requirements. This means that you need authorisation from the UK Border Agency before accepting or starting any employment in the UK.

You do not need authorisation if you are self-employed".

Incdentally the EU is calling for the UK to stop the extra controls on migrants from Romania and Bulgaria.
http://www.immigrationmatters.co.uk...restrictions-on-bulgarians-and-romanians.html


----------



## Hawcara

It is somewhat odd that the Government can increase the hours that people work for the Olympics overnight, yet they cannot bring in legislation to deal with the problem of metal theft.
Even an interim measure that scrap yards could only accept scrap that is paid for into a legitimate bank account.
There must be a great number of people on this forum who could suggest things.
I wrote to my MP, had a generic reply from some minister and heard no more.


----------



## rayc

Hawcara said:


> It is somewhat odd that the Government can increase the hours that people work for the Olympics overnight, yet they cannot bring in legislation to deal with the problem of metal theft.
> Even an interim measure that scrap yards could only accept scrap that is paid for into a legitimate bank account.
> There must be a great number of people on this forum who could suggest things.
> I wrote to my MP, had a generic reply from some minister and heard no more.


It is harder to open a BS account for a Grandchild or get a set of number plates than it is to sell metal.


----------



## emmbeedee

erneboy said:


> Thanks emmbeedee. I wonder if the work just takes too much effort to appeal to home grown "gangsters"?
> 
> Regardless, I would take anything I read in the Mail with a pinch of salt, Alan.


OK, Alan, no need for a pinch of salt now, here is a report from the BBC on the sentencing of one gang - all Romanians. Incidentally, this is the third such report I have read in the last week or so & in all three cases the gangs involved are Romanian.
Yet another legacy of T B liar. It would be interesting to know how much these Romanians have cost us as a country, the damage they cause far outweighs the worth of the metal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20779556


----------



## erneboy

So, there are thieves from every country? I guess we knew that?

It seems the Romanian thieves are prepared to put some effort into their crimes. Alan.


----------



## Stanner

rayc said:


> Hawcara said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is somewhat odd that the Government can increase the hours that people work for the Olympics overnight, yet they cannot bring in legislation to deal with the problem of metal theft.
> Even an interim measure that scrap yards could only accept scrap that is paid for into a legitimate bank account.
> There must be a great number of people on this forum who could suggest things.
> I wrote to my MP, had a generic reply from some minister and heard no more.
> 
> 
> 
> It is harder to open a BS account for a Grandchild or get a set of number plates than it is to sell metal.
Click to expand...

It is harder to open a BS account for a Grandchild or get a_ LEGAL _set of number plates than it is to sell metal. :wink:


----------



## Stanner

emmbeedee said:


> Yet another legacy of T B liar.


 :?

I thought it was Ted Heath who took us into the Common Market when TB was still in short trousers.

He can (and should) be blamed for lots of things, but what has he to do with Romanians in other EU countries? :roll:


----------



## Fatalhud




----------



## emmbeedee

Stanner said:


> emmbeedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another legacy of T B liar.
> 
> 
> 
> :?
> 
> I thought it was Ted Heath who took us into the Common Market when TB was still in short trousers.
> 
> He can (and should) be blamed for lots of things, but what has he to do with Romanians in other EU countries? :roll:
Click to expand...

When the EU was enlarged T B Liar could have restricted the entry of Eastern Europeans, Romanians & others. Because of his hidden agenda (to increase the diversity of the UK) he chose not to. Most other countries, Germany, etc., did restrict entry. 
I can remember T B Liar on TV saying "no more than 15,000 Eastern Europeans will come here. In fact more a one million actually arrived.
Of course most of them, the vast majority in fact, are not criminals or here to rob our benefit system but we do seem to have an awful lot of Romanian crooks now, judging from newspaper reports.


----------



## Glandwr

Do you really believe that Blair had a secret agenda specifically to increase the diversity of this country?

Dick


----------



## emmbeedee

Glandwr said:


> Do you really believe that Blair had a secret agenda specifically to increase the diversity of this country?
> 
> Dick


Yes.

See here, many more sources available if you choose to look:

http://tinyurl.com/B-Liarhiddenagenda


----------



## peribro

Glandwr said:


> Do you really believe that Blair had a secret agenda specifically to increase the diversity of this country?


I don't know how "secret" it was Dick but there appears to be no doubt that the agenda resulted in this. Indeed I thought it was now widely acknowledged that there were two primary reasons for Labour's immigration policy. On the one hand a large influx of eastern Europeans would provide a source of cheap labour whilst on the other hand those who settled here would be most likely to be Labour voters.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

We had our full system stolen while in dispute with the dealer we bought our base van from, he said he had signs everywhere to say it was not covered under their insurance.

I bought a very good used system from Motorhog for £160.


----------



## erneboy

emmbeedee said:


> Yes.
> 
> See here, many more sources available if you choose to look:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/B-Liarhiddenagenda


Well now, I am just guessing here, and of course I may be mistaken.

But given the title of the link I tend to feel that anything I might read there just may, only may mind you, be just a little one sided and even possibly anti Blair.

Now I am no fan if his at all, but if I wanted to find out about him I think I would be inclined to look for less obviously biased sources.

Only my opinion, oddly I feel the same way about immigrants. As it happens I have quite a few Romanian friends and very nice, normal people they all are. Nearly all polyglots and mostly doing very menial work to support themselves and their families. I can't tell you how much I admire their work ethic. Generally they very religious and strictly moral too. Lovely people who are very concerned that some of their countrymen do behave badly, but I always reassure them by telling them that there are good and bad people everywhere.

As it happens I am friendly with a good few people from Poland, Bulgaria and Spain as well and I find them all just the same as us except perhaps a little more enterprising and willing to work.

I guess I am just a commy pinko, bleeding heart liberal, tree hugger, eh? Alan.


----------



## raynipper

Thought you spent your working life cutting em down Aaln........... tress that is...... :lol: :lol: 

Ray.


----------



## Zebedee

raynipper said:


> Thought you spent your working life cutting em down *Aaln*........... *tress* that is...... :lol: :lol: Ray.


Go for a run Ray . . . you are obviously not yet fit to drive after yesterdays wine tasting! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave :wink:


----------



## raynipper

Hummmmm yerrrsss.
I'm about to start agin Dave................. couldn't finish of the last inch or so in the bucket and have chucked all the reaining halves in again.

Trouble is I have to keep checking as it comes up to temp.. ha ha...mmmm
Ray.


----------



## Glandwr

emmbeedee said:


> Glandwr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really believe that Blair had a secret agenda specifically to increase the diversity of this country?
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> See here, many more sources available if you choose to look:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/B-Liarhiddenagenda
Click to expand...

There are as you say many references to Andrew Neather's Evening Standard article supposedly saying what you claim. I could not find any other source though.

Immigration Watch, the BNP, the EDL even the Telegraph and the Tory right all cite the claim as true in order to back their own particular agendas.

He himself has strenuously denied the story saying that it was twisted out of all recognition. His article had been about the TV appearance of Nick Griffin (BNP) and had been selectively twisted and miss-quoted.

Yet another case of this bunch of ill-informed incompetents (in this case Chris Graying getting it wrong)

Some with prejudices will believe anything. Remember May's claim that she couldn't deport an immigrant criminal because he had a kitten :lol: :lol: :lol: ? Proved to have been made up to look good at the party conference 2 years ago. Splashed across the press yet none on the right retracted the story.

Same with this one. I challenge you to find a source that is not based on Neather's stolen and twisted story in the Evening Standard.

FALSE PROPAGANDA of the worst sort aimed at the unthinking.

Many apologies to the OP for the off topic diversion.

Dick


----------



## peribro

I presume, Dick, that you aren't disagreeing with the fact that there was mass immigration during the last Labour government's tenure in office? Do you also agree that as a consequence of this immigration there has been an increase in multiculturalism / diversity in the UK?

If you do agree with that then I presume that the only matter of contention is whether the Labour Government intended to allow such large scale immigration and if it had intended to allow it, whether it had anticipated the consequences, whatever they may be. 

My view is that either they had intentionally allowed it, in which case they were deceitful, duplicitous and disingenuous by not announcing their plans; or they hadn't understood what they were doing in which case they were inept and incompetent.

Peter


----------



## Glandwr

Using the logic that the global bank crash happened when Labour was in power it was therefore their fault as we are continually told by this failing Chancellor. 

I suppose that there would be many of the unthinking on the right that would actually swallow that one as well Peter. 

But how does it suggest that Blair had a conscious agenda to diversify our population ethnically to serve some evil purpose?

Dick (who is not a Labour supporter and has never voted for them but objects to false propaganda from any political corner)

Dick


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## peribro

Glandwr said:


> Using the logic that the global bank crash happened when Labour was in power it was therefore their fault as we are continually told by this failing Chancellor.


I'm not sure that anyone has actually blamed them for causing it Dick - just that we were significantly more exposed to the fallout than probably every other country on this planet.



Glandwr said:


> I suppose that there would be many of the unthinking on the right that would actually swallow that one as well Peter.


 There is another thread going Dick in which the comment was made that anyone who is a devotee of Lady T is blinkered. I guess that "unthinking of the right" is similar i.e. anyone who might think that Labour is responsible for what happened is "unthinking" and right wing?



Glandwr said:


> But how does it suggest that Blair had a conscious agenda to diversify our population ethnically to serve some evil purpose?


I'm not sure that anyone on this thread or in the Evening Standard article said that his purpose was "evil" - simply that he had an agenda and a purpose that he didn't declare to the public. The alternative is that he didn't know what he was doing!



Glandwr said:


> Dick (who is not a Labour supporter and has never voted for them but objects to false propaganda from any political corner)


Very pleased to hear it - both bits, that is!

Peter


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## Glandwr

peribro said:


> simply that he had an agenda and a purpose that he didn't declare to the public.
> 
> Peter


That is exactly what I am challenging Peter. The only scrap of evidence that did has been proven false is the twisting of the Evening Standard article. Yet we have right wing nutters (Including Chris Grayling) somehow still propounding the story.

Dick


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## Zebedee

Anybody know why the last match in the box always breaks in half as you go to strike it??

Well . . . it's just as relevant as the last few posts on this catalytic converter thread!! :roll: 

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol: 


Getting me coat - would have liked a new one for Christmas!!


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## peribro

Zebedee said:


> Well . . . it's just as relevant as the last few posts on this catalytic converter thread!! :roll:


With respect Dave, the last few posts have been very relevant! I think the logic goes that Tony Blair allowed in / didn't allow/ maybe allowed in but didn't know, large numbers of immigrants some of whom have come from countries where some of the inhabitants have a predilection to nicking cat converters - or something like that! 
Peter


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## peribro

Glandwr said:


> That is exactly what I am challenging Peter. The only scrap of evidence that did has been proven false is the twisting of the Evening Standard article. Yet we have right wing nutters (Including Chris Grayling) somehow still propounding the story.


Is Chris Grayling a "nutter" Dick, because he is right wing or are the two descriptions unconnected? Anyway to the point, I don't care either way - Tony Blair et al either knew what they were doing (in which case they are damned for that) or they didn't - in which case they are also damned!


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## Zebedee

I was joking Peter - but the relevance is a bit tortuous, don't you think?

By that logic it would be OK to bash politicians, immigrants etc., on any thread you choose.

Nothing new there then! :roll: 

Dave


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## peribro

I think you have a good point there, Dave!


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## emmbeedee

erneboy said:


> emmbeedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> See here, many more sources available if you choose to look:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/B-Liarhiddenagenda
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, I am just guessing here, and of course I may be mistaken.
> 
> But given the title of the link I tend to feel that anything I might read there just may, only may mind you, be just a little one sided and even possibly anti Blair.
> 
> Alan.
Click to expand...

Alan, that is the title I gave to the link, it is from the Telegraph, but many other papers carried the same story. Of course, Labour tried to deny it afterwards. Well, they would, wouldn't they?
I try to use tinyurl to avoid problems with long url's' spreading across the page & making following posts difficult to read.
I chose the title, as the most appropriate, so you can see what my opinion is of the lying scum-bag. Of course, he's now a peace envoy. Pardon? 
Costing us millions in security as well whilst still feathering his nest.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Getting back on topic is good idea anyway.

Then It might be worth reading again, as politics is a bit like necrophilia.


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## greentechtown

May be cost this much..iam not sure


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## Pudsey_Bear

greentechtown said:


> May be cost this much..iam not sure


 :?: :?: :?:


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## rosalan

Following the title of this thread, I was hoping to find numerous solutions to the problem of catalytic converters being removed from a van, or to indicate the most vulnerable places or even the least vulnerable vans. 
Sorry but moaning (is that the word I want?) about ancient politics aint going to solve the present problem.
Do I need to get it welded on? Are the skirts on my van low enough to make thieving practical? Is my van safe in my own driveway? What products are being manufactured to make theft difficult? 
These last questions may have been answered already but I was unwilling to wade through an anti-political debate to locate an answer. :roll: 
Alan


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## HeatherChloe

rosalan said:


> Following the title of this thread, I was hoping to find numerous solutions to the problem of catalytic converters being removed from a van, or to indicate the most vulnerable places or even the least vulnerable vans.
> Sorry but moaning (is that the word I want?) about ancient politics aint going to solve the present problem.
> Do I need to get it welded on? Are the skirts on my van low enough to make thieving practical? Is my van safe in my own driveway? What products are being manufactured to make theft difficult?
> These last questions may have been answered already but I was unwilling to wade through an anti-political debate to locate an answer. :roll:
> Alan


I fitted the Cat Clamp


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## Pudsey_Bear

There is no device as yet which will defeat a cordless angle grinder.

Best thing to do is park next to a wall.


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## Zebedee

greentechtown said:


> May be cost this much..iam not sure


Look at this poster's profile.

I suspect cows are sacred where he comes from! :roll: :lol:

Dave


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## Zebedee

Best deterrent I can think of is a 5 or 6 feet wide concrete sleeping policeman positioned just behind the front wheels when the van is parked at home. Adjust the height so there is no room to reach underneath, and make it the full width of the van.

A nice sprinkling of broken bottle ends embedded in the concrete just inside the wheel tracks might be a good idea too! :twisted: 

Dave


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## raynipper

Your getting as evil as me Dave. With my Alarm Bomb deterrent.

Ray.


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## peedee

Theft of converters double.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24811143

peedee


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## listerdiesel

A complete new front Y-pipe for the V8 Discovery including TWO catalytic converters is £149 from ebay.

Not sure where the figure of £2000 for a replacement Cat comes from, probably the same source that was quoting £50 each paid by scrappies for them.

It's far easier to take them off vans etc as the ground clearance is so much better. The Discovery cats are so tightly integrated between the engine and chassis that it's a major job to get anywhere near them.

Peter


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## raynipper

These are the best and cheapest way to gard against cats being taken....

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2964

Ray.


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