# Another water tank filling tale. But really different.



## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Yes I know it's slow to fill and I know the sensors might not be reliable but this story is a little different so, stay with me.

On our first overnight shakedown trip I wanted to ensure we had plenty of water so I attached the Whale adaptor and hose and set it off filling. Settled down for a cuppa and glanced occasionally to see the readings go sooooo slowly up to 100% but no overflow was seen.

"Oh well a few minutes more and it'll start overflowing." says I. "Let's have another cuppa and I'll keep an eye on it in between." After draining my second cup there was still no overflow.

I removed the inspection cover and found that bubbles of air were being expelled from one of the smaller seals in the top of the tank and water had started to gather in the depressions in the top of the tank. "What The *"
I quickly took *a wobbly video* and then unscrewed the tank cap, causing an audible "whoosh" of air as the seal was broken and the air bubbles stopped. The water was quite close to the top so I turned off the water tap and replaced the lids. 
"That's one for the dealers to sort out." I said to SWMBO.

The next morning I put some water in the kettle and noticed the pump started to run slow and then ran on for about 10 seconds. "S'funny. Maybe air in the system. Yes love, air in the pipes can do funny things." I said with great wisdom.
We watched the sunrise over the misty fields whilst having our ritual morning tea in bed. (Cue the orchestra in the background! )
Once finished I took a quick shower. I kept it short to avoid using all the hot water and SWMBO's wrath.
SWMBO got in the shower and after 30 seconds yelled in her sweet voice "The water's run out!!"

Quick as a flash I said "That's not right." SWMBO's reply is unprintable here.

I could hear the pump just running-on, working hard, put my head in the bathroom but no movement of the tap made any difference. I tried the sink tap but that just dribbled water so I shut it off and turned off the pump at the control panel.

We both got dried and dressed and I scratched my head hoping for inspiration and not splinters up my nails. The water level sensor reading was wobbling up and down but was clearly showing plenty of water in the tank.

Then it struck me. "If the overflow really was blocked in a big way then pumping water out of the tank would be a problem. It's trying to create a vacuum in the tank." I declared proudly like some 17th century scientist.
I removed the large tank cap (to the sound of air rushing in like a builder sucking through his teeth before giving an off the cuff estimate). I turned on the pump, which ran for a few seconds and on testing the water flowed full bore in all taps and shower. The proof of my theory was clear to see.
"Definitely one for the dealer" I said again.

So, the moral of the story is that if you've problems filling or pumping water check the basics and make sure you do have a proper flow of water from the overflow pipe and no air pressure bubbles at the top of the tank when filling. (The old trick of diluted washing up liquid in a spray bottle would show it up.) If that's OK then move on to other more complex or technical suggested solutions in other threads.

If you read this one all the way through without dropping off - well done. 
And if anyone actually knows where the overflow pipe exits the box that covers the in-board tank on a 2015 Bailey 740 MH please give me a clue? 

Paul


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Just realised that it was you posted the kitchen sink installation thread as well. Sounds like you need to get the whole water system given the once over.

I hope these are the only issues you have with the van. I assume since it is a 2015 van you bought it new, in which case at least it is under warranty albeit a nuisance in terms of time and effort on your part getting it sorted.

Now you get to find out if the after care matches the sales pitch. Fingers crossed.

Davy


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Hi Davy

Yes. Emailed the dealers last evening with all issues and have already had response to book it into the workshop. 
I am passing their way this morning so will pop in and to meet and speak direct to workshop manager to confirm their intended actions. 
Watch this space!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Had a similar problem amd fitted a one way valve in the lid. Air in no water out. Though that was on a van which didn't use the Whale filler.


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

*Update on Water Tank and all issues reported to Dealer.*

I emailed the full 15 point "snagging" report to the dealer, Chipping Sodbury Caravans, on Thursday evening and received a response just after 8am Friday morning asking me to contact the Workshop manager. 
I made arrangements to visit later that morning as I was going that way for other reasons.
I was warmly greeted by the workshop manager and assured that any spares required by workshop were already approved for purchase.

Fresh Water Tanks in current production now have an updated lid with a breather pipe built in. One will be fitted to my unit.

They had already ordered the Alde 3020 heater and would check that all parts were received before arranging a workshop visit date.

The PSU version compatible with Solar panel working was also already ordered.

We went through each of the 15 points (even the lost cover plate screw in the bedroom overhead light) and was advised what they would do to address the items to ensure I was happy. 
He said we would go over the list when the MH is taken in for work so they are clear on what has to be done to satisfy my concerns.

As they claim to be the Bailey UK No1 Dealer I was very happy they had stepped up to the plate and recognised their responsibilities to rectify the MH to the standard that this new 2015 unit should be. :grin2:

I will update when first visit is arranged.

Paul


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## Apperley (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi Troggy,

I bought a 745 last June (2015) with the same water tank filler/inspection cap problems and an Alde 3010 not the 3020. I have also had around a dozen faults snagged by the dealer including a replacement dometic fridge because the original one kept freezing up.

So the filler cap should have a breather pipe fitted. My dealer sorted it last July. Their demonstrator also had the same fault. If you look on the Bailey spares site you can see the one that should have been fitted. When I spoke to a Bailey rep at the NEC show last October he said it was a known fault. (Thanks Bailey - no recall then?)

My dealer also provided me with the manufacturers manual to recalibrate the fresh water probe through the engineer settings. So instead of my sensor showing the tank at 100% when only 75 litres have been pumped in, I can now get around 86 litres in before the fill pump shuts off.

I am having great fun in the motorhome, but tainted slightly by inadequate build and quality assurance processes.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Apperley said:


> Hi Troggy,
> 
> I bought a 745 last June (2015) with the same water tank filler/inspection cap problems and an Alde 3010 not the 3020. I have also had around a dozen faults snagged by the dealer including a replacement dometic fridge because the original one kept freezing up.
> 
> ...


Hi and Welcome to MHF, I think they make them badly so we have something to do when you get where you're going, we all seem to be closet fixers, or is it that you have to become one when you get a MoHo.

It is a great hobby though, just don't let it bother you when it all goes wrong, apart form damp it can all be easily fixed with the application of dosh, even damp can be sorted just larger lumps of dosh required.


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

*Tank Lid replaced with updated version.*

Thanks for all the comments.

The Tank Lid has been replaced as part of a larger warranty repair/replacement visit at dealers. see pictures below
New Sensor module fitted and set to factory default.

As the pipe is only a breather I asked about the overflow. 
A separate outlet provides for overflow but I was advised that when filling by in-buit Whale Watermaster inlet and (the supplied) Whale Aquasource hook up plug and hose, the mains water should be cut off when the water level reaches 100% on the control panel. Ive never experienced this as previous erratic and incorrect level indicator and wrong tank lid made me always play safe and turn off water at tap until needing a refill.

Do other owners find this automatic topping up feature works for them? :dontknow:

Cheers
Paul


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## robbosps (Mar 10, 2014)

Different van, but i put a hose in the hole, run the tap until it overflows back out.

Ive checked the connections and they are all fine. no leaks, so ill keep doing this. 

I only ever look at the display when im using the stored water.


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

robbosps said:


> Different van, but i put a hose in the hole, run the tap until it overflows back out.
> 
> Ive checked the connections and they are all fine. no leaks, so ill keep doing this.
> 
> I only ever look at the display when im using the stored water.


100% agree!
(If you want good design that 'does what it says on the tin', buy German.)


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Troggy - and that's Bailey's best solution? So if the tank fills up and overflows for whatever reason, the water will just expel over the tank. Can the tube not be extended to under the MH?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Welcome - I have not said that to you before, your accounts are brilliant and I do hope that you are not compelled to write any more, but if you do I think many of us will look forward to reading them....

I am glad that the problems appear to have been addressed positively - such things do not always happen.....

I hope that you enjoy using your MH as much of the rest of us do ours - please keep us posted on how things go, but DO join as a senior subscriber - it's only £12.50 a year and the rest of us would appreciate reading your accounts....

Dave


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## Solwaybuggier (Mar 4, 2008)

Troggy53 said:


> A separate outlet provides for overflow but I was advised that when filling by in-buit Whale Watermaster inlet and (the supplied) Whale Aquasource hook up plug and hose, the mains water should be cut off when the water level reaches 100% on the control panel. Ive never experienced this as previous erratic and incorrect level indicator and wrong tank lid made me always play safe and turn off water at tap until needing a refill.
> 
> Do other owners find this automatic topping up feature works for them? :dontknow:
> 
> ...


Yes, it works fine for us - we only use it that way occasionally, but it does cut out at 100%. (How accurate the 100% reading is, is another matter!)


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

deefordog said:


> Troggy - and that's Bailey's best solution? So if the tank fills up and overflows for whatever reason, the water will just expel over the tank. Can the tube not be extended to under the MH?


Mmmm. Not quite like that. At the time I feigned surprise at the "fix" and asked about the overflow and as I explained above, the dealer assured me this is only to provide a "breather" to avoid the problems I experienced with the previous cap.

There is supposed to be an "overflow" but I just haven't the time at the moment to confirm that statement and check this whole breather/ filling/ overflow/ principle as I have other family activities. Believe me, I will be giving this a thorough check once the school holidays are over and hopefully the weather improves.

If I have any problems I will be back onto the dealer and it'll be another point on my list of issues to take to the NEC for Bailey to answer.


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Penquin said:


> Welcome - I have not said that to you before, your accounts are brilliant and I do hope that you are not compelled to write any more, but if you do I think many of us will look forward to reading them....
> 
> I am glad that the problems appear to have been addressed positively - such things do not always happen.....
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kind comments about my posts. Sometimes things happen that can be expressed in a couple of lines but in some things the devil is in the detail and Motorhomes can be devilishly difficult. At least for a newbie like me.

I bought the motorhome from this dealer and am giving them a fair crack of the whip as under Sale of Goods they are responsible in first place, they have always been attentive when I speak with them and willing to address anything reported so far. Of course I know they will try to "slip the lead" when they can. Thats all part of the game. Caveat Emptor and all that. It's forums like this that permit knowledge and information to be spread to help owners get the best deal.

BY THE WAY I have paid my dues. I just looked up my receipt from Paypal from 6th Jan. I see I am set as a "Junior" in the side panel. Maybe I have to reach a set number of posts before reaching the dizzy level of a Senior. I've got a free bus pass. Would that get me reclassified? :grin2:

Paul


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## Troggy53 (Jan 4, 2016)

Solwaybuggier said:


> Yes, it works fine for us - we only use it that way occasionally, but it does cut out at 100%. (How accurate the 100% reading is, is another matter!)


Ahh Thanks for your response. That's interesting to know. I'll look forward to testing it with that in mind.
I plan to do more off grid camping than hooked to water for days on end. At least thats the plan.0


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm a bit bemused by this thread, it almost make me hope I'm never in a position to buy newer van.

What on earth was wrong with a simple water inlet with a lockable cap (when they worked) and a overflow/vent on the top of the tank, listen for water dripping and stop filling refit cap, job done. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, a prong or screw type level indicator to give you a clue to when you need more or to be careful with usage, although a simple sight glass would be best, except where would you put it, oh yeah under a seat with a little access door to see the glass.

Rocket science it aint.


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## davidandgwen (Jun 25, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I'm a bit bemused by this thread, it almost make me hope I'm never in a position to buy newer van.
> 
> What on earth was wrong with a simple water inlet with a lockable cap (when they worked) and a overflow/vent on the top of the tank, listen for water dripping and stop filling refit cap, job done. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, a prong or screw type level indicator to give you a clue to when you need more or to be careful with usage, although a simple sight glass would be best, except where would you put it, oh yeah under a seat with a little access door to see the glass.
> 
> Rocket science it aint.


I have a Bailey Advance which has the "standard" water inlet but Bailey did not fit the overflow vent (see first photo). They insisted that it was unnecessary and I should fill more slowly! So at the vast expense of £13.13, I fitted a vent as per second photo. To be fair Baileys (after a letter to their chairman) did reimburse me for this whilst their engineers were still insisting it was unnecessary. This was last October and I have no idea as to whether they have corrected this fault in their latest builds.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

davidandgwen said:


> I have a Bailey Advance which has the "standard" water inlet but Bailey did not fit the overflow vent (see first photo). They insisted that it was unnecessary and I should fill more slowly! So at the vast expense of £13.13, I fitted a vent as per second photo. To be fair Baileys (after a letter to their chairman) did reimburse me for this whilst their engineers were still insisting it was unnecessary. This was last October and I have no idea as to whether they have corrected this fault in their latest builds.


How utterly rediculous not to use the inlet vent as intended, pure lazyness IMO.


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

Why does 'progress' in all things seem to mean 'more complicated'? I like things to be simple (much like myself).

My filler is a hole that I stick a hose into. It is right next to a locker door that I open. The tank, which is transparent opaque, is right inside and I can watch it fill and it doesn't take long. I have found that if I fill the tank too full and then take to the road, by the time I've reached my destination some of it has slopped out anyway, so it makes sense to stop short of full.

I did have a daft idea recently about upgrading to a more modern van, but the more I looked at, the more I realised just how many good ideas there are on my 2006 model. What's with these black tanks anyway? We all know that gauges are unreliable so a transparent tank that can be easily checked visually makes sense. We use our water too quickly for algae growth to be a big problem. If the tank is getting manky you can see it in a transparent tank, not so with a black tank, so IMO a black tank is less convenient to use and to clean. I don't even need to go outside to check my water level, I just lift a cushion in the rear lounge and there it is.

I'm on my first van and only 2 years into MHing, so I'm still a noob really, but I feel I've been very lucky with my choice. Sure, I'd love to have cab air and a bigger fridge/feezer, but things like the water system make me realise they basically got it right. And it's simple. Like me.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

tugboat said:


> Why does 'progress' in all things seem to mean 'more complicated'? I like things to be simple (much like myself).
> 
> My filler is a hole that I stick a hose into. It is right next to a locker door that I open. The tank, which is transparent opaque, is right inside and I can watch it fill and it doesn't take long. I have found that if I fill the tank too full and then take to the road, by the time I've reached my destination some of it has slopped out anyway, so it makes sense to stop short of full.
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same Tugboat. Our Swift Firebrand has the same water tank and although its not full of up-to-date gadgets everything works perfectly well. Its very comfortable to live in and warm. Sometimes we look around other vans and can't see anything we'd swap it for.


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## StephandJohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Just shows that you shouldn't buy too far from home. We met a couple on a campsite in Cornwall who came from Lincoln and were waiting to part exchange their caravan for a second hand moho. It sounded quite old and I did wonder what would happen if they had problems back home.


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## davidandgwen (Jun 25, 2008)

> Just shows that you shouldn't buy too far from home. We met a couple on a campsite in Cornwall who came from Lincoln and were waiting to part exchange their caravan for a second hand moho. It sounded quite old and I did wonder what would happen if they had problems back home


Doesn't always work. For my first new van I got the "best" deal from a firm in Basingstoke (I live in Norfolk). I don't think they even gave it a PDI. They then went into liquidation.
So this time I paid £1300 more than the best deal to go to a dealer 50 miles from home and established in 1954. They promptly went bust! Thankfully after I had taken delivery or I would have been in a worse muddle. Nevertheless I have an "orphaned" van as, unlike the chassis which I can take to any Peugeot CV dealer, motorhome dealers won't touch vans they haven't sold. Baileys won't accept my usual Approved Workshop Scheme Service Engineer and cannot suggest anyone else. Luckily, except for the water tank and a Dometic door hinge fixed by my dealer before they stopped trading, I have had no other problems (touch wood). The fun will start when something serious goes wrong!
Still this is going off at a tangent.


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

mgdavid said:


> 100% agree!
> (If you want good design that 'does what it says on the tin', buy German.)


Having owned 4 German vans I can confirm they have issues as well.


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