# Possible UK out of EU. What effect for ex-UK Residents?



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

As the prospect of a UK Referendum on EU Membership draws closer, I thought I would elicit views from MHF Members.

There is obviously no imminent prospect of UK withdrawal, but what would be your status or plans if UK withdraws from the EU?

Without naming names there are several of us who fall into the categories of being either/also

1 Non-UK Resident

2 Officially Resident in another country

3 Resident in more than one country

4 Not Resident anywhere

5 (Traveller) don't take that seriously:wink2:

I am only asking how people on here would be affected if the UK were no longer in the EU? 

Also, if your status changed, what would you do?

Obviously it does not affect the status of anyone outside the EU already.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Luckily I already have an Irish passport and Ireland aren't leaving the EU.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As a legal resident in France the possible exit from the EC is a concern since I suspect that if that happened the French Government would not welcome expats any longer - many of us are over retirement age and are expensive to run and the UK only pays a nominal [er capita sum for anyone over state retirement age (I believe it is £3,000 per year) so if the UK was NOT in the EC it would not surprise me if France took punitive action to get back at the UK for rocking the boat....

There could be a lot of property for sale and no market for it, so prices would fall dramatically, many properties would be unsellable as the French a) do not like or want "old" style properties in rural areas and b) cannot afford to buy houses anyway, so the bottom could well fallout leaving many ex-pats in a VERY difficult position.....

So concerns that the lunatic fringe MIGHT win an exit - although I suspect that could take at least 5 years to negotiate as the UK would be required to continue to pay for the excesses in the EC budget for many years.....

Dave


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

We are resident in Andorra , which is not in the EU so no changes there.
As for France and property, I cannot see that our "house" would be particularly easy to shift no matter what the political climate.
All our investments are run from offshore UK centres. I have never trusted that the euro was a long term bet, far too many things that could go wrong. 
I cannot see o/n changes if UK exits. There will be legthy negotiations for all manner of things. I also cannot see any real issues for UK expats in europe....the main thing would be health insurance as thats expensive without reciprocal support. 
Anyway, its perfectly possible that eurooe implodes before the Uk even gets to vote !!!


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

You missed out a category Geoff .... unless it has been discontinued.

I was classed as 'Not normally Resident' for part of my working life.

I could own a Home in the UK, get NHS treatment but was limited to how many days I could be present in the UK. I believe it was Maggie Thatcher who tinkered about with it and on of the changes was a strict 'one day in the UK for every 6 spent abroad. Her Government took the flexibility out of it. It was a very useful status to have because it made me exempt from UK Income Tax if I observed the rules. I am fairly certain I did not cheat ...... much. >


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

A Friend of ours moved to France in 2001, 3 months after us, but we moved back to the UK 2 years ago. In the UK she was a Court Prosecutor and 2 years ago when it was the local elections in France she decided that she would become a French Citizen, it has taken her nearly 2 years to qualify. She did this because of Marie Le Pen, who was edging toward getting EX-pats removed from France and if she was a French Citizen she would not come under their regime, her Husband would be also entitled to stay. As it was Marie Le Pens' party did take over a few of the Councils, so don't be too sure that it won't happen if she gets her way on the next elections.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

747 said:


> You missed out a category Geoff .... unless it has been discontinued.
> 
> I was classed as 'Not normally Resident' for part of my working life.


Jim

I was not thinking of one's status in UK - as a UK passport holder one can always return. I was considering one's right to enter/reside in another country.

AFAIK 'Not Normally Resident' status stll exists. Does not affect me as all my income(Pension and rent) is UK-taxable wherever I am.

Geoff


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Don't really want to consider the problems it would (could) cause.
I retired to rural France to enjoy the tranquillity and excellent lifestyle the place allows, I dread my infrequent returns to the UK the manic lifestyle we escaped from is in your face from the moment you get off of the ferry.

If I were to be forced to leave my now home and if, as Dave suggests property prices crashed (they are considerably lower than UK anyway) I'd most likely only to be able to afford somewhere up North, so would still have problems with the language barrier. :laugh:.


.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I can't see why the French would want British people to leave in the event that the UK came out of the EU. I would have thought that the adverse impact on the French economy would be not insubstantial so I'm not sure what they would have to gain. There are many people from non-EU countries (e.g. Russia) living in EU countries so I'm sure the British would be able to as well. I imagine though that access to welfare benefits including the health system would be withdrawn at some point, presumably by reciprocal agreement with the UK.

Also lets not forget that British people lived in EU countries long before we entered the Common Market!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

peribro said:


> ....... I imagine though that access to welfare benefits including the health system would be withdrawn at some point, presumably by reciprocal agreement with the UK.
> 
> .........


That's where the problem will lie for many Peter. Lots of older people manage to get along with relatively little only because they don't have to pay for their health care. Change that and living abroad won't work for many.


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> Jim
> 
> I was not thinking of one's status in UK - as a UK passport holder one can always return. I was considering one's right to enter/reside in another country.
> 
> ...


Don't know about Poland but in France it doesn't matter that your pensions are taxable in the UK they are also taxed under the French tax system. This came to light when we were thinking of selling our French house (our only residence), my Husband has a Police Pension and a State Pension and I have a State Pension and all our Pensions were taxed in the UK but the French Tax system still wanted 726 euros per year. We had no other income or savings interest but could not get out of paying the money, even an Accountant in France said that we would be wasting our time complaining to the French/UK Tax authorities so we had to accept this and pay up each year. A lot of expats are still unaware of the ruling that they will be paying tax twice.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nce-si-2009-number-226-form-france-individual

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/411884/france.pdf

tony ?


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

randonneur said:


> Don't know about Poland but in France it doesn't matter that your pensions are taxable in the UK they are also taxed under the French tax system. This came to light when we were thinking of selling our French house (our only residence), my Husband has a Police Pension and a State Pension and I have a State Pension and all our Pensions were taxed in the UK but the French Tax system still wanted 726 euros per year. We had no other income or savings interest but could not get out of paying the money, even an Accountant in France said that we would be wasting our time complaining to the French/UK Tax authorities so we had to accept this and pay up each year. A lot of expats are still unaware of the ruling that they will be paying tax twice.


You must have had an extremely poor accountant then!

You cannot get out of paying tax on the police pension but for your state and any private type pension you could have completed the necessary forms and become liable for tax in France, this would or does mean that you ONLY pay tax in France and will get a zero return from UK tax office.

.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

randonneur said:


> Don't know about Poland but in France it doesn't matter that your pensions are taxable in the UK they are also taxed under the French tax system. This came to light when we were thinking of selling our French house (our only residence), my Husband has a Police Pension and a State Pension and I have a State Pension and all our Pensions were taxed in the UK but the French Tax system still wanted 726 euros per year. We had no other income or savings interest but could not get out of paying the money, even an Accountant in France said that we would be wasting our time complaining to the French/UK Tax authorities so we had to accept this and pay up each year. A lot of expats are still unaware of the ruling that they will be paying tax twice.


I assume that with three pensions the €720 pa was not the French tax assessment, but only the difference between the tax liability in France and what you had already paid in UK.

That would be normal under a double-taxation agreement.

If I became taxable on income in Poland, which I am not yet, the rate of tax would not be a problem, as it is 1% at standard rate below UK, but the personal tax-free allowance is only about £1,500 compared with £10,000 in UK - OUCH! Also I have not researched the Polish treatment of income in ISA and SIPP.

Keep MHoming is the best answer I think:wink2:

Geoff


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

eurajohn said:


> You must have had an extremely poor accountant then!
> 
> You cannot get out of paying tax on the police pension but for your state and any private type pension you could have completed the necessary forms and become liable for tax in France, this would or does mean that you ONLY pay tax in France and will get a zero return from UK tax office.
> 
> .


We did complete the necessary forms and had a very good accountant but as we were assessed as a couple the difference in the taxable income in France was the 726 euros. A lot of people, including us, were very unaware of Tax implications when being resident in France. I would advise if anyone is thinking of moving to a different Country then really look into the financial aspect of the Country involved if you can.

Glad to be back in the UK and know where we stand re Income Tax.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

randonneur said:


> We did complete the necessary forms and had a very good accountant but as we were assessed as a couple the difference in the taxable income in France was the 726 euros. A lot of people, including us, were very unaware of Tax implications when being resident in France. I would advise if anyone is thinking of moving to a different Country then really look into the financial aspect of the Country involved if you can.
> 
> Glad to be back in the UK and know where we stand re Income Tax.


Are you saying that you were registered in France for the double taxation exemption?
Dis-regarding the police pension which has to be paid in UK you must have had a very considerable income to have paid that much.
We've been resident in France (and registered here) for 8+ years and are treated as a couple, we have reasonable pensions both state, private and company and have never paid as much as you quote on the whole yearly income.
The taxation thresholds are better for retired individuals or couples here than UK.

.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

eurajohn said:


> The taxation thresholds are better for retired individuals or couples here than UK.
> 
> .


John

To save a lazy Git looking it up (in French) could you please quote the threholds, for individuals, couples and for what ages?

Thanks in advance.

Geoff


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> John
> 
> To save a lazy Git looking it up (in French) could you please quote the threholds, for individuals, couples and for what ages?
> 
> ...


Geoff, I'm away from home at the moment I'll check my records when I get home next week and let you know then.

.


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