# New 'Forum' for non-UK Residents to discuss practicalities



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I have decided to start this thread for non-UK residents. 

If it is not successful so be it.

It has the purpose of discussing practical applications for those in other countries, or who have property there, assuming that Brexit is coming - if it did not then we are in status quo.

If it gets 'hijacked' by people who should properly being discussing matters on the existing Brexit threads, and/or are not non-residents then I shall ask for it the thread to be closed.

Geoff


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## Yaxley (Jul 25, 2008)

Living in Ireland the main concerns are
1 No return to a hard border between North and South with implications for the Belfast agreement.
2 No Barriers to trade between Britain and Ireland
3 Maintain the common travel area between Britain and Ireland which is outside of Schengen.
4 Exchange rates.
No one knows what the final agreement will be.
If it is a hard Brexit then the only land border between the EU and Britain will be between Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland. This will lead to a return to Border posts and the closure of a whole lot of minor roads. No one wants that. While there was a majority in favour of Remain in Northern Ireland the Democratic Unionist Party policy is in favour of Brexit while Sinn Fein who are power sharing are in favour of remaining. All rather confusing. 
While both Theresa Maye and the EU chief negotiator are sympathetic to these issues I dont believe they will count for much in the greater scheme of things. The major powers will dictate the final agreement. Personally I think that Germany, France etc will play hardball and that Britain will settle for much less than what the hardline Brexit people would like. However it is all speculation...no one knows.
Ian
PS On the other hand a hard Brexit would probably lead to increased activity in the Dublin Financial Service centre with London Banks having a presence in the only other english speaking country in the EU. However I find that hard to see happening on a large scale.


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

Could be a useful thread Geoff - thanks

As 70 year olds with a decent house in Haute-Vienne France and no desire to return to live in the UK we do have concerns about the long term effects of the referendum. The first instant effect was a 10% drop in income due to exchange rate drop - but it did not drop as low as it did 5 years or so ago so perhaps the pound was overrated and we should not just blame Brexit.

Our main concerns are the possible freezing of our pensions and possible big increase in the cost of our health top-up insurance.

We like the idea of an individual EU associate membership and last week wrote to our English MEP asking for his support. Here is an extract from his answer - 


> .......
> In principle, I am against the idea of associate EU membership from a legal perspective. European citizenship is given in addition to national citizenship through membership of the European Union. As non-members, this right is forfeited. I'm also concerned that this proposal lacks detail, especially in terms of the annual cost for associated citizenship.
> 
> While I will always acknowledge and seek to understand your concerns, this is not one I can support.
> .......


.....so not much support from him 

Perhaps I should write to our French MEP to see if he can support us.


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## bc109 (Sep 17, 2016)

As Baldygo has rightly pointed out, the main threats to our continuing well being as expats in Europe is dependent upon the future actions of the UK government, rather than Europe. Freezing pensions would be a UK decision; likewise, removing reciprocal health insurance would be a UK decision. 
The Spanish have said from day one of the Referendum result that Spain needs UK expats and UK tourists. The Valencian government has already stated that medical cover will continue regardless of the final outcome.
There are possibilities of achieving naturalisation if language and cultural exams can be passed. Again, whether that would be a solution depends on the UK government retaining pensions and medical rights for naturalised Expats.
In the meantime, the strains on the European cohesion are not reducing. It may well be that Europe will dissolve before Brexit is completed. Alternatively, Europe may realise that having such a strong feelings about cherry picking is counter productive.
America is a union of states. Apart from main decisions, states seem to be able to run their affairs more or less as they wish.
Lots of cherry picking there, then.
So I am confident that the future may not be as bleak as we fear.
By the way, Brexit has already happened in Europe.  Meetings were held the day after the referendum with no-one from the UK allowed to attend. Now our Prime Minister has been denied access to a European meeting. I think that legal action would have been better than a brave face. Where was the legality of closing doors to still legal members ?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

bc109

The defence against freezing pensions, which I doubt will happen, is to have the UK pension paid into a UK bank.

I do that anyway, so that I can choose on which day to exchange it when rates are favourable, instead of accepting the rate on the day the pension is due.

Geoff


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## bc109 (Sep 17, 2016)

Perhaps the answer is to all become naturalised Swiss. We would have a choice of languages to learn, and "have access to the European market " without becoming a member of it. Look at BBC news today on Swiss immigration matters. It clearly states the fact I've placed in quotes above. 

Bill


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Copied from the Brexit thread for those ex pats that are ignoring it

Tried to find Geoff's thread about ex pats sharing brexit news solely pertinent to them to put this in. It looks like the reciprocal response to the UK's policy on EU aliens will be left to individual countries.

Here's the report in the Gaurdian 
Britons living in the EU face Brexit backlash, leaked paper warns

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

And here with added spin as usual in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ts-report.html

Dick


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Sorry Dick but could not get to the pages from your links.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

cabby said:


> Sorry Dick but could not get to the pages from your links.


Try
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222618/EU-hit-Brexit-ejecting-expats-report.html

https://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&sour...MIITAC&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA

Dick


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I see there is a German seller of computers on e-bay and their prices are very cheap.
As I am in the market for another PC due to the 'old' one getting cranky. I priced them up and asked my UK seller if he could match the price.
He said that he has 20 ex-pat clients and many of them had asked about this German seller 'Shop-Bedir'. But he just doesn't know how they manage to sell them so cheap.

One, has anyone bought from 'Shop-Bedir' and two what are your thoughts.
I personally have bought again from my tried and trusted UK supplier what I feel is a good price of £389 with extras and delivery.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271898470649?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Ray.


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> bc109
> 
> The defence against freezing pensions, which I doubt will happen, is to have the UK pension paid into a UK bank.
> 
> ...


I recently looked into applying for Spanish residency. One document required is Form AP1 (at least I think that was the number of the form) from the Pensions people in the UK transferring your pension to a Spanish bank.

I haven't gone ahead with it because of same old stumbling block: the van! You can't register a large RHD vehicle in Spain. And even if you could I believe it is a long drawn-out expensive process. We don't want to sell our beloved van and buy a Spanish registered. We like what we have and don't want to part with it so residency is on hold.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

MyGalSal said:


> I recently looked into applying for Spanish residency. One document required is Form AP1 (at least I think that was the number of the form) from the Pensions people in the UK transferring your pension to a Spanish bank.
> 
> I haven't gone ahead with it because of same old stumbling block: the van! *You can't register a large RHD vehicle in Spain. *And even if you could I believe it is a long drawn-out expensive process. We don't want to sell our beloved van and buy a Spanish registered. We like what we have and don't want to part with it so residency is on hold.


Sal

Registering RHD in Poland was also not possible until 2015. I have not done it for various tax reasons, although we could put it in Basia's name, by only transferring say 5% of its value to her, to avoid her having to pay CGT equivalent.. We might still do that, but we are holding off for this year as we are committed to go to France, so can still pop-in to UK for MOT and VED. One advantage of Polish registration would be no Road Tax. I also think the process here would not be so onerous.

As far as Residency is concerned there are options - if one has at least €250k - Andorra, Latvian or Greek visa etc. but they usually require one to invest in real estate.

I am taking the attitude that we will know more in a year and that should still give one another year to organise one's life to suit.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Geoff, do you think more than 2% of Brit ex-pats will have Spanish residency? The other 98% will hardly be chucked out or even made to feel unwelcome.
After the full exit there might be more paperwork and qualifications but you can't just uproot millions because of Brexit.

There always has been a large Ex-Pat community in Spain and France before and after we joined the EU. Can't see that changing dramatically in two years.
Only peoples fears will drive some.

Ray.


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

I am interested in Spanish residency for a couple of reasons. One, the health service and two, my son and his family live here. I hate having to return to the UK for things like MOT and think it would be simpler to be able to stay here (obviously in Spain right now). We worked abroad for many years and never really settled back in UK. Family ties kept us there for a while, our daughter and her family live in Scotland, my mum lives in Newcastle so we go and do the rounds but we are always happiest heading south. I know some folk get Spanish residency and just wing it with car insurance etc but it is not legal and I wonder what would happen when push came to shove. Anyway, that route is not for us so it will be all the way, with a Spanish registered vehicle, or not at all. 

So, we will carry on doing what we are doing and that is spending the majority of the year twixt France/Germany/Spain. As regards Brexit, well, we will just have to wait and see. I agree with Ray about the non-chucking out. I go no further with that because I couldn't bear a Brexit v Remain on this thread. I see the other is still going strong and avoid it like the plague.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> Geoff, do you think more than 2% of Brit ex-pats will have Spanish residency? The other 98% will hardly be chucked out or even made to feel unwelcome.
> After the full exit there might be more paperwork and qualifications but *you can't just uproot millions because of Brexit.
> *
> There always has been a large Ex-Pat community in Spain and France before and after we joined the EU. Can't see that changing dramatically in two years.
> ...


Ray

I agree that I cannot see the 'uprooting' happening, but I can understand countries that might see an opportunity for a bigger tax take than they get now, because the UK Citizens could be forced to apply for local Residency, and therefore become tax liable.

At the moment it is difficult for Schengen countries to prove how long a UK Citizen has spent in any *one *country, although that would still be difficult between Schengen countries.

However, if a UK Citizen did become liable to tax in another country, the tax system might not be so advantageous as the UK system - many countries do not have a Tax-Free Allowance as good as the UK's £11,500(from 06.04.2017), and local tax systems might not permit using ISA and Pension tax-free wrappers for the accrual of income.

Another consideration would be whether one would be better off trying to shed UK Domicile (for IHT purposes), which is difficult anyway, or retain it as being better than the local 'Death Tax'. In some cases, where the 'double-taxation treaties' do not cover IHT/Death there is a liability in the UK *and* in the other country, as we personally are well aware.

As you can see I have been applying my brain to these issues, and for some time.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

raynipper said:


> but you can't just uproot millions because of Brexit.
> 
> Ray.


Hope springs eternal BUT if there was a chance to financially benefit then the Spanish or any other EU country may well grasp it with both hands.....

Spain has had a bad recent history with planning permissions and lack of building consents resulting in homes being seized or demolished.......

France also has a history or seizing properties if someone decides that a bill has not been paid.......

I wonder how many other EU countries have similar clauses in the small print and might be tempted to dust them off and use them if TM starts getting awkward or walks away?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I am sure that I read that at least one of the areas of high Brit occupation would collapse if they were forced to return home due to one thing or another.I think it was Valencia that the Mayor made this comment.I am tempted to have a temp home in Spain when the motorhome has been sold.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

cabby said:


> I am tempted to have a temp home in Spain when the motorhome has been sold.


After owning a house in Spain for 5 years, I would never do that again :frown2:

tony


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As very many people have found to their cost, buying a house properly in Spain can be a VERY difficult route, there are numerous chances to slip up and even if you think you have safely negotiated the whole rigmarole people have still found that they have brought something that is worthless and they are required to demolish it.......

I believe one of the key points is whether the postman will deliver to the house...... if he does then PROBABLY it is legal, if not then take great care....... it may not be legit.

As regular readers are aware I would NOT take that route at the present time - the future is too difficult to predict with any certainty. Keep living in the UK and travel if/when you can......

Dave


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> 
> I agree that I cannot see the 'uprooting' happening, but I can understand countries that might see an opportunity for a bigger tax take than they get now, because the UK Citizens could be forced to apply for local Residency, and therefore become tax liable.
> .....snip.....
> ...


Having paid my taxes in France for over 5 years now I have no regrets. Since I enjoy living in what I consider to be a wonderful part of the world (even if it has got colder and wetter this week!!) I am glad to contribute alongside the our French neighbours - in fact I would feel guilty if I didn't.

We do struggle with the language (complicated further by patois and Occitan in our area) but even this struggle provides us with interesting encounters with much amusement :grin2:

Communities and businesses around here are pretty well aware of the UK residents value.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mee too Paul.
I also have paid tax in France for at least 9 years. And although I might be borderline in UK, the benefits of French life are worth it.
Agreed about the language and some indifferent customer service by sfr, life in general and medical service is good.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> As very many people have found to their cost, buying a house properly in Spain can be a VERY difficult route, there are numerous chances to slip up and even if you think you have safely negotiated the whole rigmarole people have still found that they have brought something that is worthless and they are required to demolish it.......
> 
> I believe one of the key points is whether the postman will deliver to the house...... if he does then PROBABLY it is legal, if not then take great care....... it may not be legit.
> 
> ...


Dave et al

One way to have more confidence in a property purchase in Spain, or other countries where there can be problems, is to instruct a UK firm of Solicitors which has its own office in the country. The advantage is that should they fail to check title or planning permission properly, for example, then one can claim against the UK firm and its Professional Indemnity Insurers.

This would of course cost more, but that cost would be buying more security.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

From what I have read sadly many of the problems are due to corruption and pieces of paper being issued which have never been approved, solicitors have been taken in as well as "joe public". It is VERY difficult to gaurd against corruption further up the food chain so your suggestion is a good one.

Am I right in saying the the ECJ got involved at the end? I recall that the ECJ said that individual purchasers should not lose out, but of course, that still will happen as it is impossible to recompense for all the losses and stress if your house has been demolished.....

But this is one area where the EU does seem to have pulled together and compelled a different outcome.

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> From what I have read sadly many of the problems are due to corruption and pieces of paper being issued which have never been approved, solicitors have been taken in as well as "joe public". It is VERY difficult to gaurd against corruption further up the food chain so your suggestion is a good one.
> 
> *Am I right in saying the the ECJ got involved at the end? I recall that the ECJ said that individual purchasers should not lose out*, but of course, that still will happen as it is impossible to recompense for all the losses and stress if your house has been demolished.....
> 
> ...


Sorry I cannot answer that one.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

A bit of news or conjecture for us ex-pats..................

http://goo.gl/Y71Cix

Ray.


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## Yaxley (Jul 25, 2008)

I am enclosing copy of an article from the Irish Times written by Fintan O'Toole giving an Irish perspective on Brexit
Ian


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

raynipper said:


> A bit of news or conjecture for us ex-pats..................
> 
> http://goo.gl/Y71Cix
> 
> Ray.


Says what we would expect, but does not answer how "we will hold the Ministers to account"?

AFAIK there is no way of doing that until the next GE which at present looks to be 3 years away by which time it may well be too late to hold anyone to account by voting for someone else....

and if that was done then who would the "winners" be? Certainly not those who may well have been used as bargaining chips whose future is worth less than virtually anything else.......

They do not care about UK expats in the EU - we are chicken feed c/w other points such as controlling immigration. access to trade (note I did not say "free") and even access to things like information sharing. We are a long way down their pecking list even though they may make noises of how urgent it is - they could have addressed that point months ago, but did not choose to........

Dave :frown2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

There are quite a lot of voices stating the intent to preserve EU citizens right to remain in the UK and vice versa.

Although it is early days and no rules may emerge for some time, however I wonder hoe the rules will determine who will be covered by the rights.

There may be a cut-off date after which no new entrant will be covered, but how will it be determined who was in any country at the relevant time?

UK does not have a system of registration for Residence, so who knows whether a person is Resident, particularly if they are not working etc. Owning or renting property does not prove one is resident.

In other countries, e.g. France, I understand one is required to register, but how and under what law? How do the authorities check on anyone who has not registered?

If EU citizens are given the right to remain in UK without any registration, how would the rules be drafted for UK citizens in other EU countries, without discrimination?

It appears to raise some interesting practical questions.

Geoff


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Geoff, in France the main criteria for registration / residence is filing of tax return to the Impot.

.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

and that process makes the Inland Revenue tax returns look like they are suitable for a 3 year old BEFORE they start school c/w a University graduate.....


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes Dave. Covering two different tax years starting and ending at different times. Two different tax relief levels and all in French.!
The fun is about to start soon.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It doesn't help to plead insanity either - they assume that.....


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

John, Dave and Ray,

So what is the advantage of declaring that one is 'Resident' as opposed to being a Visitor, like many who have a holiday home?

And if you do not declare Residency how do the authorities know you are there and for how long? Owning or renting does not prove your physical presence.

This question could apply to many countries not just France.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess we winged it and hovered mid channel until our financial circumstances changed for the worse. Then there seemed not reason not to be domiciled fiscally in France.
It's possible we would be under the UK tax threshold as pensions are exempt. But here in France your worldwide income is declarable and we just trigger the minimum.

You have to be fiscally resident somewhere. I think in rural France not much escapes the authorities and your local Mairie will know if you are a permanent resident. We looked after my mother for two years here in France. Without any notification or declaration she received flowers on her birthday and a card at Christmas from our Mairie.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> I guess we winged it and hovered mid channel until our financial circumstances changed for the worse. Then there seemed not reason not to be domiciled fiscally in France.
> It's possible we would be under the UK tax threshold as *pensions are exempt. *But here in France your worldwide income is declarable and we just trigger the minimum.
> 
> *You have to be fiscally resident somewhere.*
> ...


Ray

I do not understand 'pensions are exempt'. Not under UK tax law, and even my UK State Pension creeps above the personal allowance, because I deferred it for several years. So are pensions exempt under French tax law - and does that include personal as well as State pensions?

I do not agree about *You have to be fiscally resident somewhere. *Every taxman in the world would like you to believe that. However, for example one declares to the UK HMRC that one is no longer Resident in the UK, they try to ask where one is Resident, but there is no obligation to answer, which has been tested in law. HMRC can say they do not accept that one is not resident. However if they are getting tax on UK-derived income, e.g. pensions, rent etc. do they care? So if one is accepted as non-UK resident and one has not registered in another country then one is not fiscally resident anywhere.

So anyone full-timing in a MH could be not fiscally resident anywhere.

No taxman would like to admit it.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm no expert on this subject Geoff but only gleaning bits of info to suit my personal situation.

Pensions and other tax free income like Peps n Isa's etc. have to be declared in France as income. They will then decide at what level tax is levied.
I am obliged to declare our reduced and limited pensions here on a different page to any other income from banks or investments. 
A friend chose to omit his tax free Peps n Isa's and when found out took years of grilling to settle the tax liability he had to pay.!

Yes you can choose to be non resident but if the authorities decide your financial centre of activities is in France or anywhere for that matter, they will deem you are financially domiciled there. Unless you have billions in which case you make your own rules.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> I'm no expert on this subject Geoff but only gleaning bits of info to suit my personal situation.
> 
> *Pensions and other tax free income like Peps n Isa's etc*. have to be declared in France as income. They will then decide at what level tax is levied.
> I am obliged to declare our reduced and limited pensions here on a different page to any other income from banks or investments.
> ...


Ray

I can understand that some countries would not recognise the tax-free status of ISAs but why did you think that pensions are tax-free? OK before drawing a personal pension the capital gain and dividends accruing are tax-free, but once drawing an income, either from a State Pension or Private Pension it is all taxable.

As for, as you put it 'financial centre' - why move it to another country? I still use my bank in UK, but I am not resident there. So how do 'authorities' decide I am resident in any other country, unless they put a 'tail' on me?

I think some people trap themselves into other systems.

Just on a finickity point, do not confuse 'Domicile' with 'Residency' - very important for IHT. It is very difficult to become non-domicile. I do not know your circumstances, but many people who live outside the UK will still be deemed to be UK-Domicile.

Geoff

P.S Ray, if you think I am being a bit like a 'dog with a bone' on this, you are correct - the taxman wants the bone and so do I, but I will fight also, legally.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

OK Geoff.
I said I was no expert and was only offering what I have found here.

Ray.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

It is not obligatory to be fiscally resident anywhere. There are all sorts of noises that at some stage this will be the case but consensus is that its a long way off. For now, banks are obliged to have fiscal information on non residents bank accounts...tax id numbers...from the country where they are resident. Without such information they can refuse to let your account continue. 
Oddly, Robby has been asked for his Tax ID from his UK account, but I have not. The French accounts have also demanded the information.
So , it becomes more difficuly not to be resident for tax puposes somewhere.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thats a point Salomon.
We have a bond in Jersey and Lloyds sent me a blooming great set of forms demanding I state my residence. They also said they would inform the tax authorities where they sent statements to of the income.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We received a letter from our UK Bank (Lloyds) asking for such information and telling us that they were required to ask us, twice, but that if we did not respond there would be no further action.....

Needless to say we did not respond.... and have had no further requests from them..... the account continues to function unchanged.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

salomon said:


> *It is not obligatory to be fiscally resident anywhere. *There are all sorts of noises that at some stage this will be the case but consensus is that its a long way off. For now, banks are obliged to have fiscal information on non residents bank accounts...tax id numbers...from the country where they are resident. Without such information they can refuse to let your account continue.
> Oddly, Robby has been asked for his Tax ID from his UK account, but I have not. The French accounts have also demanded the information.
> So , it becomes more difficuly not to be resident for tax puposes somewhere.


Sarah and I are in agreement on that point.

I also agree with her statement about it becoming difficult to 'not be resident for tax purposes somewhere'. However, if one can organise one's affairs to be tax resident in one place one might not have to pay additional tax in another place with higher rates of tax.

For this purpose it may be advantageous to have a 'residence' and therefore a tax base in a country of one's choosing, and no other.

Receiving a UK pension or rental income automatically makes one liable for UK tax - even if one had never been to the UK.

Of course in support of these decisions/choices a residential address does help.

These are not just my opinions, but are backed up by some quite expensive legal and accountancy tax advice that I have paid for - and which you are receiving free:wink2:

I have been advised about getting into the clutches of certain Tax Authorities, as I am sure the Jersey 'Hill Street Mob' of lawyers were advised about number of nights in the UK, thus wanting to go in and out of UK on our BA aircraft, while denying me, as one of their pilots, the right to buy a house. Sorry, personal gripe against Jersey and BA.

Tax is a bit of a 'Cat and Mouse' game and whilst I would not do it illegally I will excercise my right to play it from my side.

Of course these decisions might become more difficult after Brexit, but I am not panicking yet - there is always IoM etc.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just an observation Geoff.
The Channel Islands and IoM tend to exist for 'funny' money. This allows them to charge large fees for small returns. 

Ray.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

raynipper said:


> Just an observation Geoff.
> The Channel Islands and IoM tend to exist for 'funny' money. This allows them to charge large fees for small returns.
> 
> Ray.


I think the Channel Islands and IoM might disagree with that statement and so do I. Unless I misunderstand what you mean by "funny" money.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

Penquin said:


> We received a letter from our UK Bank (Lloyds) asking for such information and telling us that they were required to ask us, twice, but that if we did not respond there would be no further action.....
> 
> Needless to say we did not respond.... and have had no further requests from them..... the account continues to function unchanged.


Why did you decide not to respond ? You dont appear to be hiding in France:smile2:

From memory (rusty) , i think accounts with under $50,000 are exempt. I do mean USD as it all stems from FATCA regulations, designed to find US citizens not paying tax.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

salomon said:


> I think the Channel Islands and IoM might disagree with that statement and so do I. Unless I misunderstand what you mean by "funny" money.


We lost lots of money from the IoM when our 'Madoff' type IFA managed our investments. After wards it was quite obvious what was happening to ours and others funds. But no one in IoM wanted to disclose anything so he got away with it.

We were 'sold' a supposedly tax advantage investment by Jersey Nat West and Lloyds/TSB. Then BBC Panorama blew it up and exposed the fiddle. Nat West subsequently distanced themselves from the investment by dumping all the account holders they had previously sold to. 
Denied it of course but I had a friendly employee who explained it all to me.

Years ago when the Islands didn't have to declare they paid less interest than the high street. Why, funny money and they knew they could.

Ray.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

Sorry you got done by a pyramid scheme Ray, but to be fair it could have happened anywhere. The French State pension is effectively a pyramid scheme, yet perfectly legal !
I do not deny that there have been all kinds of dodgy tax saving schemes sold...and largely parked offshore. The point is that they have been pretty much cleaned up, hence my disagreement.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> Just an observation Geoff.
> The Channel Islands and IoM tend to exist for 'funny' money. This allows them to charge large fees for small returns.
> 
> Ray.


I did not say I would put my money there.

IoM has an advantage as it does not have an MOT system.

Also do you think that when I was based in Jersey working fo BA my salary was 'funny money'? I naturally had my money paid into a local Midland Bank branch.

'Funny money'? -hilarious!


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