# full air-suspension system



## Wilbur (Apr 11, 2006)

As we have travelled over perhaps some of the roughest roads in Russia and Romania and have experienced a very rough ride, so rough that in Romania the crash from one pothole was so great that the Fiat fuel pump thought the vehicle was in an accident and switch the pump off which was an interesting experience being marooned on the middle of a main road just inside the Romanian border from Bulgaria.

At the Düsseldorf motorhome show I saw a full air-suspension system that could be fitted to the Carthago had a reasonably high cost. The question is has anybody had any experience with the air suspension system and does it give a softer ride over the potholes of say, Romania.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Wilbur said:


> As we have travelled over perhaps some of the roughest roads in Russia and Romania and have experienced a very rough ride, so rough that in Romania the crash from one pothole was so great that the Fiat fuel pump thought the vehicle was in an accident and switch the pump off which was an interesting experience being marooned on the middle of a main road just inside the Romanian border from Bulgaria.
> 
> At the Düsseldorf motorhome show I saw a full air-suspension system that could be fitted to the Carthago had a reasonably high cost. The question is has anybody had any experience with the air suspension system and does it give a softer ride over the potholes of say, Romania.


Hi Wilbur,

The couple in their Niesmann Bischoff (Tag chassis), two pitches along from us at the Hotton rally, had their air suspension done at Goldschmitt, Hopfingen, Germany, and spoke highly of it and the installation, as did a German chap I spoke to at Honfluer. 
Goldschmitt appear to be the only company that do air suspension for certain Alko Tag chassis. Goldschmitt

Regards,

Jock.


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## Wilbur (Apr 11, 2006)

JockandRita said:


> Wilbur said:
> 
> 
> > As we have travelled over perhaps some of the roughest roads in Russia and Romania and have experienced a very rough ride, so rough that in Romania the crash from one pothole was so great that the Fiat fuel pump thought the vehicle was in an accident and switch the pump off which was an interesting experience being marooned on the middle of a main road just inside the Romanian border from Bulgaria.
> ...


 Yes I have levelling jacks installed on my last motorhome by them. Thanks for your reply


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Suspension*

Hello,

When you say full suspension, do you mean replacing your existing cart springs with air suspension. Rather than adding air assisters?

Gilde Rite

I know you can get this for rear setup. However, it is also possible for the front on Mercedes, at a Price.

Trev


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

Having driven HGV's with and without air suspension all I can say is that there is no comparison. With air you simply glide over the roughest of roads as opposed to metal which can produce filling loosening vibrations and 'crashing'.
Motorhomes would last so much longer and be so much quieter and more comfortable if 'full' air suspension were available.
I have seen various air kits for the rear of motorhomes, but has anyone heard of air suspension for the front end, Merc. FIAT, Ford etc.


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## Wilbur (Apr 11, 2006)

Jean-Luc said:


> Having driven HGV's with and without air suspension all I can say is that there is no comparison. With air you simply glide over the roughest of roads as opposed to metal which can produce filling loosening vibrations and 'crashing'.
> Motorhomes would last so much longer and be so much quieter and more comfortable if 'full' air suspension were available.
> I have seen various air kits for the rear of motorhomes, but has anyone heard of air suspension for the front end, Merc. FIAT, Ford etc.


 Yes you can get it from http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/trans...lair_4-Corner.htm&lp=nl_en&btnTrUrl=Translate this is a dutch site and the link should translate it into English .... of a sort! YES it is quite expensive


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Full Air*

VB Full Mercedes .pdf

Full Air English


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Teemyob
thanks for the link to VB air ( do you know how much a conversion costs ?)

Have you made any changes to your MB sprinters suspension ?


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

My Opus is base on the Sprinter 5000kg. I got a firm near liverpool to fit air suspension bags to the rear wheels. They did an excellent job very professional and tidy workmanship, the cost was around £900 and that included the air pump kit for adjusting the pressure in the bags. This company was recommended to us by two other motor homers both very satisfied with their installations.

www.as-airsuspension.com


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

thanks Wobby for the link (you had a little typo in it )

http://www.as-airsuspension.com/

I had contacted them some months back cost £675 +£195 to fit (but not MB approved)

I have been told ?? that the Dunlop system ones that Marcle Leisure sell are MB approved ??I wonder if anyone knows if this is correct ?

Wobby:- what problems were you experiencing pre air bags ?


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

trek said:


> thanks Wobby for the link (you had a little typo in it )
> 
> http://www.as-airsuspension.com/
> 
> ...


We have a whopping overhang and I needed to be able to jack the back end up for going up ramps, ferries etc, also our 5300kg Opus was very soft compared to the Fiat which we found a bit disconcerting on motorways. The air bags definitely make a difference. Whats MB approved?

Wobby


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

MB aproved = Mercedes  but does that matter ?

wobby


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*MB Approved*



wobby said:


> MB aproved = Mercedes  but does that matter ?
> 
> wobby


I would want to get MB Approved because of how the changes in aftermarket/retrofit of Suspension systems can affect the ESP system

A lunatic woman driver put our ESP to the test earlier this year and would never be without it again on such a large vehicle.

Trek.

Not changed the suspension yet. Made a few changes to the van including, Naturepure, Schaudt Solar regulator (old retrofit one failed), laptop safe, MB Cruise Control and a few other things. Stil working on Command NTG 2.5.

The cost of full rear air is around £5k. If I have a good year in 2010, may consider it.

I priced our MH on building it at 2008 prices the other day and it came out around €135,000.00 so I guess the extra cost, despite being the price of a good used supermini may be a drop in the ocean!.

I am also going to get some dual tyre inflators as I have had a lot of trouble with valves and valve extenders.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hi Teemyob
Would you have to go to Holland then or Germany to get the full air fitted if you decide to do it?

I sent Goldschmit an email asking for a price, they emailed back straight away saying they had recieved it and would get back to me but so far havn't, although only about 4 days ago.

Do they have any agents over here?
I would maybe consider it also.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

coppo said:


> Hi Teemyob
> Would you have to go to Holland then or Germany to get the full air fitted if you decide to do it?
> 
> I sent Goldschmit an email asking for a price, they emailed back straight away saying they had recieved it and would get back to me but so far havn't, although only about 4 days ago.
> ...


Goldschmit will get get back to you in the form of a proforma invoice type document. All very professional and neat, albeit in German. Not the cheapest company in town but excellent work and service. They don't have agents over here but even with a ferry ticket and fuel it works out cheaper than some of the levelling systems offered in UK


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Vennwood
Do you have it(full air) on your Flair then?
Would £5000 be a rough price guide?

It would be no problem going to Germany as we bought the van there, Caroline speaks German so she would be able to decipher the document.

Meine deutsche is nicht so gud.(thats the only phrase i know)

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Coppo,

No I didn't go ahead with it in the end. There was an issue with the Iveco chassis that meant I couldn't have the same as is fitted to the new Flair and I would have had to have the manual version. 

In essence they quoted for two systems one was 3,700 Euros and the other was 5,500 Euros the difference being a fully automatic system that you could also use for levelling the MH when on site and the cheaper version was a manual system. They have several sites around Germany. 

I went back to them earlier this year and the prices had actually dropped but that may have been a recession prompted thing so I can't say exactly what the price would be now and it would be different for other chassis in any case

If you look at their catalogue on their web site (they did have an English version but that seems to have dissappeared) they give the various types and chassis they cater for.

Hope that helps


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## Eisbaer (May 1, 2005)

Hi Wilbur,

My own MH doesn't have full air suspension but air assisted suspension on the rere axle ony. It seems the main reason that the previous owner installed same was to upgrade the rere axle weight rating. It does make the ride a tad smoother (it can be inflated/deflated to suit road conditions) but it also causes some alarming fishtailing while motorway driving - especially when passing larger, slower vehicles. In addition, even at the lowest setting, the rere suspension is a good deal higher than the original specs, causing the headlights to focus on the road much too close to the vehicle. That said, if you can get a full-on, all-wheel, computer controlled air suspension system (as fitted on many heavy commercials) things might be a lot more comfirtable. 

Eisbaer


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes thanks Vennwood

I did look on their website but i also couldn't find any english, i,l have to look when Caz is with me as she's good at German.

Hope Goldschmit get back to me then with a price.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

I suppose you have found the catalogue on their web site however in case you haven't, here it is

http://www.goldschmitt.de/?page=katalog

I have a copy of the 2009 in English but its 14Mb so difficult to mail.

If you use latest google you can translate the pages into English and a lot of it is self explanetary and the prices, say 4500 Euros looks the same in most languages


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Do you know what page number i need to look for in the catalogue?

Can only understand bits, thought bit was page 77 but dont think so now.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

In the English version the Air Suspension systems start at page 27 to 75 inclusive with the full air suspension systems starting at page 62

Regarding full Mercedes systems it says "New" and details on request however the rear systems are available from 979 Euros upwards


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Cheers for that Vennwood.

PnC.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

VB do the air suspension for all the top German brands on Iveco, Merc, Ford Man etc. and even the Transit. I covered them in a little detail in the November MMM in Salon Snippets. They do have a UK outlet as well.
C.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Hi Clive
Do you know anything about the quality of work what vb do?

I have spoken to them and got a price, i know they are MB approved for the full air but i want to know what the finished article was like and whether you knew of anyone else who had it fitted and what they thought. 


Anyone had it done(full air) by VB?

Incidently the price is just under £3000 the guy said so it appears to be about £2000 cheaper than Goldschmit, is the finished article as good/robust/longlasting etc or would the Goldschmit one be much better.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

I've spoken to a couple of people in the past who were pleased with the work. Surely there must be others on here with experiences of the quality and ruggedness.

£3K seems a good price - is that for the full air system with auto or manual control? Did they say what you got for your money.? The Goldschmitt system replaces the springs etc. whereas the AS system replaces the bump stop. What do the VB people do?

Nuke did his own with the manual system

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=73893

Here is one from As http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-40461.html


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Its the price for the full air system which is automatic, controlled from inside. You can also(option) have a separate switch at the rear of the vehicle which lowers or raises the rear end.

yes the whole system is relaced springs, shockers etc by the full air.

Price was just under £3000 he said, but that was for my vehicle(mercedes 316cdi 3.8 tonne). Although its 2007 registered the mercedes chassis is the old model and that is what i was priced for. 

Thre is also the option of having an automatic inflater fitted should there be a problem.

On the system they do for the new model chassis there is an option of an axle overload system which can be integrated in and it immediately registers if you have overloaded any axle. Seems a very good innovation but they don't do this for the older system which i would require.

I,ve been thinking if there are any drawbacks to the system.
1. If a bag bursts then it would be resting on the bump stops so you would need to be recovered, also is it just something else comp-licated that could go wrong.

2.Also the system fitted to mine would be for the 3.5tonne sprinter which is what, in effect it is. It is 3.8 tonne however and we will soon be uprating to 4tonne via sv tech. I was thinking last night that if you have essentially a 3.5 tonne full air fitted to a vehicle which maybe running at nearly 4 tonne all the time would this put extra strain on it and therefore faults occur?

I don't know if i am looking for problems where none exist though.

Having said that i do like the idea and feel the advantages of ride quality/levelling/stability would be great.

I would like to hear if ANYONE out there has had the VB full air fitted and what they think of the system before i make any decisions.

PnC.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*System*



coppo said:


> Its the price for the full air system which is automatic, controlled from inside. You can also(option) have a separate switch at the rear of the vehicle which lowers or raises the rear end.
> 
> yes the whole system is relaced springs, shockers etc by the full air.
> 
> ...


When you say they, do you mean VB?

Snelly (Shane) Used to drive Ambulances with Full Air suspension. I would think if anyone would know of any airbag issues, maybe he could hold some answers. (((SHANE))).

I have alos heard that some ambulance drivers found the full air often resulted in sea sickness/motion sickness due to the ride!

Trev
Trev


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes, Teemyob i do mean VB when i refer to 'they'.

They(VB) have a centre in the north east which is only about 1 hour from me, i may get the address and go for a nosey and ask a few questions.

Although it appears cheaper that Goldschmit £3000 roughly is still a lot of cash and it would pay to find out more about the system.

The guy i spoke to at VB( think he was called Oliver Drinkwater) said that motorhomes made up a good part of their business, so i would have thought that there would be at least a few on our site with experience of the quality etc.

PnC.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Although it appears cheaper than Goldschmitt, £3000(roughly)................

Thats what i meant to write.

PnC.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Van*

A VB van passed me on the M62 on Friday, I think they are based in Blackburn.

Would be very interested to find out how you go on?

Trev


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes, will let you know.

I will definitely go to their site in the north east at Billingham for a look and to ask more questions, then will take it from there.

I am surprised no one has had the vb full air system fitted on MHF as the guy from vb said a lot of MH's get it fitted.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Lets keep this topic updated as I would be very interested if it is the full automatic air system for around £3k - that's much much cheaper than the £5.5K from Goldschmitt (not that they could do my MH in any event)

I'll contact them myself on Monday to get more info on the Iveco

Pete


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes defo keep this thread open.

I will be contacting VB again next week. As i said i,m going to get the address of the fitting centre in Billingham and go for a look. I,ve been talking to the missus today and she has agreed that if the system is good we will get it although she wants to look at a system on an MH first and go for a ride in one, which is very sensible.

You,ve got me thinking now Vennwood if i have been given the correct info as £2500 betwween the 2 systems(Golgschmit and VB) is a big difference.

PnC.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Just updating everyone.

I was given the wrong information on Friday by the MD of VB air suspension. He said he thought we were discussing just the full rear air suspension and not the full 4 corner air suspension.

Anyway today i have had a conversation with him, he has apologised if he confused me and has said definitively today that the FULL 4 corner air suspension is NOT available on ANY mercedes chassis, regardless of the AGE of it. He said that mercedes will NOT allow anyone to mess around/interfere with the front of the vehicle as that is the crash zone area. He said that he automatically thought i was referring to the full REAR air suspension(as opposed to semi rear air) and not full 4 corner(front as well) air suspension.
The full air suspension is available for the rear only on mercedes and that is what he gave the price for (just under £3000).

Puts a different slant on things now and puts the price into perspective.

I,m sorry if i confused/misled anyone that the full 4 corner air suspension is available for the mercedes because it is not

We were all excited about having it fitted too, but at least i,ve learnt something.

PnC.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Air*

Thanks for the Update

I would be more than happy with just rear full air. The front is already very comfortable.

Still very expensive at £3,000.00 but £2,000.00 more than the air assistance that seems to make the ride harsher.

Still around £2,000.00 less than what Glide-Rite quoted me.

Worth a thought


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes TM, initial thoughts by me now are that is very expensive just for rear.

I would still like to hear if anyone has had it done though and what they think of the difference it has made.

Sorry Vennwood, i should have enquired about your iveco flair whilst i was on the phone to him.(MD Oliver Drinkwater)

PnC.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Teemyob
Also the price i obtained was for the old chassis 2.7 sprinter, i presume you have the new version, this could make a difference to the price.

I should have asked the MD which chassis converter do allow the full 4 corner air suspension as mercedes DO NOT.

PnC.


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

I also spoke to Mr Drinkwater today and he said that they only do the front Air suspension for the new Iveco same as Goldschmitt so again no difference there either. 

He has said he will get back to me via email with a full answer and price for rear but that's not what I want.

Back to the drawing board.....


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

As promised here is a further update.

It seems that VB do what they call a 3C full air suspension system. What that means is that the rear is fully automatic with side by side adjustment and the front is a single system. By that I think they mean that while you can adjust the height up and down, you can't adjust it from side to side. There are other, not yet specified differences between the 4C and 3C and I'm awaiting for further details.

The price for the 3C system is £4250 plus £350 fitting plus VAT making it around the same as the Goldschmitt product (except Goldschmitt offer full front and rear control)

The VB full system (4C) does offer some nice touches such as a tilt function to help empty the waste water and a self levelling option to help when parked

Still expensive though.......


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