# Allowing police/ambulance to pass



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm in a café at a busy junction. A police car has just passed, lights and sirens blaring, on the inside lane approaching red lights. 

He wants to turn left but both lanes at the lights are on red. 

If the car in front of him on the inner lane went through the red to allow the police car past, does he risk being booked for going through a red light?

It's what I'd be tempted to do.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

There have been several stories about people being fined for doing that Jean. I think the problem is that a camera may catch the vehicle that runs the red light but not a Police car or whatever that may be a fair way behind. But even if it was immediately behind I think the camera would be pointing downwards to get the reg no and probably wouldn't show what was behind.

I still think I'd move though, and possibly try to get the reg no of the vehicle I'd moved for. Difficult one.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I do believe the answer is Yes.however should this arise then consideration is taken into account of the traffic giving way and allowing such to happen in a safe manner, causing no ongoing dangerous happenings.

Or I could be completely wrong.>>


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q699.htm here. It is an offence.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

In true British fashion the The Driving Standards Agency say there are no official guidelines on motorists moving out of the way of emergency vehicles. The Law though is clear.
The advise from the experts is that "the key thing is that blue light drivers have certain exemptions from rules of the road which the rest of us don’t. That’s why it’s much better for us to let emergency drivers find their way around us. Leave the bus lanes and red traffic lights to them."


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

from memory

emergency services are not exempt from the road traffic act in that they may only jump the lights if it is safe to do so
if they do and cause a accident they can be prosecuted for it

i think im right but hopefully mr plodd will come along soon and clarify

barry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You are correct, while driving under "emergency conditions" the driver is exempt from SOME aspects of the RTA;

they are allowed to exceed the speed limit WHERE SAFE TO DO SO.

they may treat a stop light as a give-way light AT THEIR OWN RISK,

they are NOT permitted to cross solid white lines to overtake slower traffic,

they are NOT permitted to go up a one-way street the wrong way,

they are allowed to park on yellow lines, or loading /unloading lines, in pursuance of the emergency,

They have NO right of way, no right to force other drivers to take avoiding action and may only drive "in safe manner", failure to do so may and does result in prosecution and losing one's licence is not an uncommon experience......

Once again, that is all from memory, it is a number of years since I was last in that position in a large white van with odd lights and nee-naahs on it.....

I have to say, if driving in London during rush hour, forget the blues and two's they are a waste of time..... 

In Devon, if on blue lights and with the audible warning devices activated (choice of three different ones), the common response of drivers was one of three;

1. speed up and race the emergency vehicle (not a good idea, illegal probably and I simply dropped right back....),

2. slow right down to a pace where the average snail would overtake, in the hopes that the emergency vehicle would go past (not always possible or safe, so once again this often resulted in me slowing down to allow the driver to sort themselves out and find somewhere safe to pull in to the side),

3. make an absolute diving turn to the left, irrespective of who or what was already there (one driver found the space he wanted to be already occupied by a concrete farm gate post.....), once again, I slowed down and gave them room, hoping that they did not hit anyone or anything meanwhile........

I preferred them to go forward normally and find somewhere safe to pull in, preferably long before I got near them, but sadly many drivers do not have rear view mirrors fitted (obviously an optional extra - not), and do not hear the rather loud noise generator behind them - possible because some people ARE deaf, many others acquire deafness from their music system up so loud it drowns out the emergency warnings (equivalent to a directional 250w amplifier I was told but I am not positive about that) they can produce 110dba at a distance of 30m in front of the directional speaker (mounted behind the radiator).

Do I miss it? Yes and no, I miss helping people, but not the noise which is intense in the cab (up to 80dba) which can cause hearing damage....... even with the windows closed......

Dave


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks all. Still think I'd be tempted to crawl round the corner to let them through.

When I was in the rapid response car behind the ambulance taking my husband to hospital (he didn't survive) I couldn't believe that cars in front of us at the lights wouldn't even move to the (admittedly limited) space to their left to give the paramedic more room climbing the traffic island. I think they were too scared to lose their place in the queue.



Penquin said:


> ...sadly many drivers do not have rear view mirrors fitted (obviously an optional extra - not), and do not hear the rather loud noise generator behind them - possible because some people ARE deaf, many others acquire deafness from their music system up so loud it drowns out the emergency warnings...


My father was totally deaf but he always knew about the emergency vehicle behind him before my mother was aware of it. I guess he was just much more aware of the road than he might have been if he'd been a hearing person.



Penquin said:


> ...they are NOT permitted to go up a one-way street the wrong way...


I remember turning left in Middlesborough heading for the signed parking, and pulling a caravan. I turned into a single lane which led only to...the underground parking :-(

I found myself facing a double decker bus. He just laughed and gestured to me to keep going - must happen all the time! Fortunately that was in the days before ubiquitous cameras


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I think just about the only circumstance in which you can legally go through a red light in this situation is if you are directed to do so by someone who has the authority to so direct - which in reality is probably a police officer. I don't think having a police car behind you with its blue lights on would constitute that authority although if a policeman in that car was visibly waving you forwards with his arms then I guess it would.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

but only if you can find independent witnesses etc. and preferably you record it all on camera and......

The authority controlling that vehicle and driver will have retained records of asking (note asking, not telling) the driver to proceed as an emergency, but getting them to access such records will take time and may not be easy. But AFAIK ALL emergency vehicles are fitted with current time trackers as regards their location although I am not sure about RNLI, HM Coastguard, Moorland Rescue, Cave and Mine Rescue, Bomb squad vehicles as they may have a lower level of exemption - I know that Blood Transfusion service vehicles do have Blue lights, but have a lower level of exemption....... the same may apply to those that I have listed.

it's just not worth it IMO. The delay will not last long, if space becomes available to reverse to clear the way, so be it, but let the emergency vehicle driver take appropriate actions - they are covered by exemptions, you are not.

Dave


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

peribro said:


> I don't think having a police car behind you with its blue lights on would constitute that authority although if a policeman in that car was visibly waving you forwards with his arms then I guess it would.


This would be a huge risk to you and any crossing traffic. How would the Police Officer know what was coming across the junction? The APP Police College state "When exercising the exemption to pass a red traffic light, drivers of emergency response vehicles should avoid causing a member of the public to contravene the red light. The public do not have an exemption in law to contravene red traffic lights."

The Police authority to instruct a driver to pass a red light is intended to be used under a controlled situation, such as a Police motorcycle outrider clearing a junction etc. It is not intended for a arm waving Police Officer in a vehicle behind.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

The junction I was talking about actually wouldn't pose a problem for other traffic as the 'turning left' traffic is the only traffic allowed up that road; oncoming traffic isn't allowed to turn into it.

I can see that it would be dangerous at a normal junction.

But it's an interesting situation. Thanks for the input.


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## mistycat (Jan 28, 2014)

When i drove Ambulances for a while, mostly on the ski slopes, in the forces were ordered not to break any traffic rules even on a blue light, but we did use to speed a bit, unless we had super duper paratroopers in the back, crying 
but that was a good few years ago so may be changed now,
misty


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## robbosps (Mar 10, 2014)

Lots and lots of scenarios.




The original poster mentioned a junction. Can you see, what vehicle are you in ? 




Some response drivers for the Police are trained to differing levels. 


For the majority, i'd happily move forward safely. If there is a light camera, it will catch the responder too. If that's the Police, id take it as a lawful request to move. 


Penquin is correct in his lawful exemptions, although Speed, is just Speed. It doesn't specify what or where. After the 3 exceptions, everything else is for self justification. Certain roles will require a more dynamic method of manoeuvres. 


Have I bored anyone yet ! 


As for the college of Policing............ Im guessing they have never driven/ridden through rush hour traffic gridlock......


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

robbosps;2495618 said:


> As for the college of Policing............ Im guessing they have never driven/ridden through rush hour traffic gridlock......


Perhaps not, but they are the authority responsible for Police Training and Development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Policing


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