# To name and shame crap motorhomes and dealers.



## johnc (May 1, 2005)

I bought my new motorhome back in April 2007 and without doubt it has been the worst purchase of my life.

What are the legal implication if I publish on this website a list with pictures of all of the crap, Gerry built rubbish we have had to put up with not to mention water pishing into the engine compartment, juddering and creaking springs.

Just to give a flavour of our situation, when we tried to make a claim against the dealer for our costs he stated that we were complaining about trivial items and that these were fixed in very little time. the fact that it worked out at approx 2000 vehicle miles to get the van back to them 4 times, leave it and return the following week seemed imarterial to them.

I hate the UK Motorhome Industry with a vengeance, it is full of dealers who do not give a dam, it is full of converters who keep on putting out poor quality products based on substandard poorly designed Fiat and Peugeot X250 base units.


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## johnc (May 1, 2005)

johnc said:


> I bought my new motorhome back in April 2007 and without doubt it has been the worst purchase of my life.
> 
> What are the legal implication if I publish on this website a list with pictures of all of the crap, Gerry built rubbish we have had to put up with not to mention water pishing into the engine compartment, juddering and creaking springs.
> 
> ...


I forgot to add that before we bought our new motorhome, we were advised by a friend who has had motorhome for over 25 years.

1) Never buy a new style motorhome as it will be full of problems.

2) Never, Never buy a new style motorhome based on a new chassis as it will have problems with both the base vehicle and the habitation area.

3) If you are stupid enough to break these rules Never, Never, Never, buy the van from a dealer any more than a reasonable bus ride away.

We broke every rule.

We bought a new style van
We bought a new style van on a new type X250 chassis
We bought the van from a dealer over 90 miles away.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

Tread carefully but good luck!


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## tekkiesteve (Mar 6, 2008)

I can sympathise with you on that John, we have been waiting to have our motorhome repaired for nearly a year, insurance company gave dealer go ahead last august..... we are still waiting! they never give courtesy calls or return calls, and when they do answer they feed you bull...t !


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

johnc said:


> johnc said:
> 
> 
> > I bought my new motorhome back in April 2007 and without doubt it has been the worst purchase of my life.
> ...


so you still went ahead.....

well as for legal impications, there's nothing that can be done about factual reports - if everything you say is true. Don't come up with emotive language and subjective descriptions - pictures are fine to illustrate a point.
Calling things "crap gerry-built rubbish" is not factual - that's your opnion!

And don't forget it's you that will be on the receiving end of any legal action - you will be the author.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

johnc said:


> What are the legal implication if I publish on this website a list with pictures of all of the crap,


Hi John

The legal implications are exactly the same as publishing anywhere else.

You need to be honest, truthful, objective and unemotional. Also be sure that any allegations you make can be backed up by independent evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law. The laws of libel and defamation apply to websites, just the same as any other medium. Any company or individual who consider they have suffered loss or injury as a result of your posts may take legal action against you personally.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

tekkiesteve said:


> I can sympathise with you on that John, we have been waiting to have our motorhome repaired for nearly a year, insurance company gave dealer go ahead last august..... we are still waiting! they never give courtesy calls or return calls, and when they do answer they feed you bull...t !


The answer to that one is to get onto your insurance company and give them all the details and tell them you want to take it to another repairer.

Peter


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## tekkiesteve (Mar 6, 2008)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> tekkiesteve said:
> 
> 
> > I can sympathise with you on that John, we have been waiting to have our motorhome repaired for nearly a year, insurance company gave dealer go ahead last august..... we are still waiting! they never give courtesy calls or return calls, and when they do answer they feed you bull...t !
> ...


If only everything in life was that simple, no disrespect Peter but in the space of a year do you not think i would have exhausted every avenue with the insurance company and the dealer.
Incidental this particular dealer was the only dealer from four that actually quoted for the work.
The insurance company will not let me use another dealer as this seems to be their preferred dealer and the dealer in question has allegedly bought some of the parts and is currently waiting for others!
When i checked i found i could source all the parts within a fortnight, just how they stay in business defys belief.


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## johnc (May 1, 2005)

*Insurance rtepairs*



tekkiesteve said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> > tekkiesteve said:
> ...


I had a similar problem when my van was damaged by someone reversing into it. Their insurance company initially said that i would have to get a Motorhome / caravan repairer to carry out the work as they did not have a workshop to cater for this type of repair. I trekked round three companies and eventually got one who would carry out the reapri.

Advised the insurance company and after a lot of hassle they sent out an engineer to see my van and then said that they would have it repaired in a Mercedes Van dealer (my van is a Peugeot) lot more hassle to follow with the dealer talking about getting the logos made by a local printing company. They also had problems getting a new bike rack. I exploded and told the insurance company that the van would be taken to the Motorhome dealer as I was not prepared to accept the repair offered.

Van went to the repair shop of my choice. I would think about taking the dealer to court for loss of use. Is the claim against your own insurnace or a third party. If the latter, sue the insurance company in the small claims court as well.

Regards

John C


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Getting back to your original post John, I'm very sorry to hear of the problems you've been having. The legal implications have been covered accurately by other members and the problems of the X250 are well documented already, although ours hasn't exhibited judder 'yet', but it does have a few annoying little probs.

I can empathise with you on the effects of buying a van from a non-local dealer. We didn't learn from our first experience, but at least we got a bit closer the second time around. 

Our first van was from a truly excellent dealer in Reading. They were absolutely superb in resolving issues and providing back up, except they were 250 miles away. To be fair they did help by suggesting that rectification work could take place at their conversion workshops which were 'only' 125 miles away. 

When we eventually found the van we wanted to replace our first purchase the dealer was 60 or so miles away (nearly 2 hours each way - no motorway). We haven't been impressed by their lack of after sales service, in fact after giving them a small list of warranty 'snags' a few weeks after hand over we didn't hear anything from them at all for nearly 9 months. We had the small issues sorted by a closer branch of the much maligned Discover Leisure group at no charge.

In many ways we bring the problems on ourselves.

We shop around for the cheapest deal, which often means reduced margins for the dealer and the lower income for him means he can't afford as much back up as the customer would like. It's a vicious spiral.

We get picky about the size, finish and layout and price we want and this often leads to a specific brand, or couple of brands and Sod's Law says the only UK dealers are at the other end of the country. If we compromised on our requirements we could get a van that's not quite what we wanted but that we could get serviced easily. Over the period of ownership I wonder which would drive you more nuts.

Mind our nearest dealer of any sort is 45 miles away, so whatever we buy, new or used, we're in for a 2 hour round trip to get service. If we used those nearest dealers to source a van we'd be limited to the layout and specs provided by around half a dozen converters and a used stock of only, say, 60 vans.

I'd always go for buying as local as possible as it saves a lot of heartache after the initial euphoria of saving a few bob on a van. That is always providing your local dealer remains in business which just recently hasn't always been the case. 

SDA


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

When I went on my bendy wiper bender the Bosch agent told me that EEC regulations have ruled that repairs and services to vehciles do not have to be done by the manufacturers choice of dealers or even e.g. a Fiat has to go to a Fiat shop. It can go i.e. to a Bosh agent or other companies provided they are something I have forgotten registered and also have the equpment to do the job per another regulation.

I assume this is habitation as well and also for motorbikes, washing machines, vibrators, watches etc......

If this is not correct then Mr. Bosch told me a Porky.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think it's just VAT registered Pusser.

BTW where did you get your viber serviced, as ours needs a new air and diesel filter.

Kev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Pusser said:


> When I went on my bendy wiper bender the Bosch agent told me that EEC regulations have ruled that repairs and services to vehciles do not have to be done by the manufacturers choice of dealers or even e.g. a Fiat has to go to a Fiat shop. It can go i.e. to a Bosh agent or other companies provided they are something I have forgotten registered and also have the equpment to do the job per another regulation.
> 
> I assume this is habitation as well and also for motorbikes, washing machines, vibrators, watches etc......
> 
> If this is not correct then Mr. Bosch told me a Porky.


You're quite possibly correct Pusser although I've not seen too many vibrator service agents around.  :lol: :lol:

I s'pose I'm mainly thinking of getting warranty work done. Not sure how Porky's converter would react to a warranty claim from a non-appointed dealer and whether they'd get the same level of service etc. Perhaps Swift or JCMH can illuminate for us?

Actually I may have a sort of test case in process at the moment.

Our Truma gas regulator packed up first night out on our recent tour. We'd only used the van for 17 nights since new, mainly on hook up, so relatively little gas used. Luckily we were able to cook on the Cadac and invested in a small electric kettle the following day.

Anyway the next day was a Sunday but we found the local caravan dealer (Clwyd Caravans, nr Wrexham) were able to swap regulators and it's been fine since. After shelling our the £40 or so I suddenly realised it should've been swapped under warranty, either Adria's or Truma's own. Not sure why Clwyd didn't suggest that but perhaps it being a Sunday and me being from 'out of town' made them prefer having cash in the till.

So I emailed Truma yesterday and we'll see whether they offer to cough up.

SDA


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

God loves an optimist SDA.

Kev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> God loves an optimist SDA.
> 
> Kev.


Does He love cynics too Kev?

SDA


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

> So I emailed Truma yesterday and we'll see whether they offer to cough up.


I was just picking up on what you said, it seemed to be saying you didn't expect much by way of compensation, and I agreed with that view.

I admit it was bit cynical though, my personal dealings with dealers has led to this view of them, if they were all more like JCMH I/we would be a lot happier I think, and less cynical too.

Kev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> > So I emailed Truma yesterday and we'll see whether they offer to cough up.
> 
> 
> I was just picking up on what you said, it seemed to be saying you didn't expect much by way of compensation, and I agreed with that view.
> ...


I was just asking cos normally that's what I am Kev and probably for the same reasons as you 

Andy


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Slate the bad dealers and vehicle manufacturers by all means, but lets have praise for the good ones :roll: 
Dave p


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## roger-the-lodger (Apr 21, 2008)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> ...In many ways we bring the problems on ourselves....SDA


Yes of course some people do that but others do not and are still stuffed royally by industry malpractice. The ones that bring problems on themselves are just making a bad situation even worse for themselves. That doesn't stop it being a bad situation for everyone.

When I ordered my first MH 14 months ago I was pathetically ignorant of what I was getting into, but after 10 months of ownership I realise that I have been lucky so far. I agree with the OP that there are some very bad smells around this industry and I think two big problems lie at the heart of it. The first is that no one organisation takes ownership of potential problems with a complex product so that the hapless end-user has to contend with the base vehicle manufacturer, a base vehicle dealer, the converter and a dealer for the converted MH. Oh, and quite possibly major component suppliers directly as well! The second problem is that you have to find a dealer for the MH (habitation work) who is both reasonably local and of decent quality (competence and service response / attitude). What if such a dealer simply doesn't exist where you live? Or if, as in my case, the dealer you bought from closes (a branch of Discover in my case, leaving my nearest Discover branch now 70 miles away rather than 5; oh, and the nearest MH dealer of any type is 70 miles away too 8O ).

It seems to me that if you buy a motorhome you have to rely on luck, and luck, with motorhomes as with every aspect of life, is by definition a seriously unreliable commodity. I drive my MH with my fingers crossed!

These vibrator service agents sound interesting though.  A nice sideline business for JCMH or a future accessory option for Swift? :wink:

Roger


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## TJ101 (Oct 12, 2008)

A few Facts

If you are involved in a accident, and hence a insurance claim on your road policy.. 
You, as the policyholder are entitled to take YOUR vehicle (car, motorhome etc) wherever YOU want to,, whether they are a approved repairer for your insurance company or not, 

Due to Block exemption,, 
If your base vehicle is still under the manufacturer's warranty (Fiat, Ford, Mercedes etc) YOU can take YOUR vehicle to any garage/dealer of YOUR choice,for service/repair, whether they are the main dealer for you brand or not,, This will NOT effect you manufacturers warranty 
However, the main dealer for your make, has to carry out any warranty work (so long as the servicing has been done to manufactures recommendations)

Will agree with posters above,, Finding a MH that suits you is only one part of the purchase,,and the easy bit !!! Finding one at a dealer who will be their to help,, if and when they are needed, is the hard bit,, 
Fortunely, i have never had a problem with any of the MH's i have bought,, But then, i have never screwed them down to the last penny of their margin,, :!:


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

roger-the-lodger said:


> Steamdrivenandy said:
> 
> 
> > ...In many ways we bring the problems on ourselves....SDA
> ...


When I looked up 'vibrator' it referred to a form of 'judder', so maybe the X250 drivetrain was designed by a vibrator engineer?

Seriously though Roger and taking your point of dealer distribution I can't work out why certain distinct small areas of the country are swamped with dealers and other large areas are deserts.

Preston has Brownhills, Marquis, Todds, Campbells all rubbing along cheek by jowl. Now I know the Lunar factory is there but you don't see a dealer cluster like that around Hull where Swift's are.

By the same token the area around Weston super Mare has Highbridge, West Country, Davan and did have a Discover branch until a fortnight ago.

And yet we've got to travel nearly 50 miles to reach Richard Baldwins, Cleveland or one of two surviving Discover's at York or Darlington. Even worse for you at 70 miles.

How on earth do the dealers in clusters manage to survive when nobody seems to want to open a dealership to the east or north of a big city like Leeds with it's associated satellite towns like Wetherby and Harrogate etc and the A1 main drag running through the area.

It doesn't make sense.

SDA


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

The Motorhome distribution and after sales is a bit of a shambles in many ways unlike the car/van trade.

With a Ford you can go to any Ford franchised dealer and expect the same sort of technical knowledge and back up and get warranty work carried out free of charge irrespective of where the vehilce was purchased.

Unfortunately with a Motorhome this is not possible as many distributors will not carry out warranty work on vans not supplied by themselves.

In some ways one cannot blame them especially when they know that the van has been basically given away by a competitor, why should they subsidise a competitor, dealers do not get paid the full labour rate for warranty work.

Warranty work is subsidised by sales margins in many cases and if there was no sale in the first place, then they are on a hiding for nothing plus of course there is a finite amount of labour time available which they need for their OWN customers who have supported their dealership.

As regards appliances, a proper dealership will have trained technicians who have been on training courses and are appointed service agents for these appliance manaufacturers and can therefore carry out warranty.

In some cases dealers are appointed by converters who do not have these facilities and that is where the problems start.

My own policy is that where an owner of a Swift product or an appliance where we are appointed service agents, has a problem, he is welcome to 
make use of our facilities irrespective of where it was purchased.

PS. sorry SDA we only supply batteries for vibrators and under Health and Safety regs we are not allowed to fit them or service them!

Peter


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## roger-the-lodger (Apr 21, 2008)

Peter, you make some very good points as I would expect! 

Just a few comments:



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> The Motorhome distribution and after sales is a bit of a shambles in many ways unlike the car/van trade.


Hear hear! I might propose a slight amendment - how about "even more of a shambles than the car/van trade" :roll:



> With a Ford you can go to any Ford franchised dealer and expect the same sort of technical knowledge and back up and get warranty work carried out free of charge irrespective of where the vehilce was purchased.


Unless, as I understand it, you happen to have the problem while in the wrong country!



> Unfortunately with a Motorhome this is not possible as many distributors will not carry out warranty work on vans not supplied by themselves.


Indeed. 



> In some ways one cannot blame them especially when they know that the van has been basically given away by a competitor...


You (and they) make the common and hidden assumption here that the end-user has bought on price, screwing the dealer down, and that this is the reason the end-user is now going begging to an alternative dealer. My point is that not everyone buying behaves like this (I didn't) yet they still get screwed by the system! Like I bought locally, not on price, and I'm now faced with a 150 mile round trip for work, warranty or paid (eg a hab service I'm paying for still requires a 150 mile round trip). But I'm lucky to have found a dealer who seems to have a similar attitude and reputation to JCMH (but is 75 miles away, not 450) - Tyne Valley Motorhomes. So even that was down to luck! That was my main point - from the customer's viewpoint the whole damn thing is a lottery from the local dealer scene to the product build quality.



> As regards appliances, a proper dealership will have trained technicians who have been on training courses and are appointed service agents for these appliance manaufacturers and can therefore carry out warranty.


As for the "improper" dealerships (and boy, there seem to be many) their hapless customers may end up begging others with Truma, Thetford or Dometic skills to help, or just have to resort to DIY.



> In some cases dealers are appointed by converters who do not have these facilities and that is where the problems start.


Little or no qualification of dealer competence at all in fact. Other than "competence" in shifting product. 8O



> My own policy is that where an owner of a Swift product or an appliance where we are appointed service agents, has a problem, he is welcome to
> make use of our facilities irrespective of where it was purchased.


Good for you! That's one of several reasons you'll continue to succeed, I suspect. 



> PS. sorry SDA we only supply batteries for vibrators and under Health and Safety regs we are not allowed to fit them or service them!
> 
> Peter


What a shame! I'd hoped Swift might include a complimentary one in the 2010 "elegance" packs. Mind you, it would have to work better than the satnavs.

Roger


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

roger-the-lodger said:


> > In some ways one cannot blame them especially when they know that the van has been basically given away by a competitor...
> 
> 
> You (and they) make the common and hidden assumption here that the end-user has bought on price, screwing the dealer down, and that this is the reason the end-user is now going begging to an alternative dealer. My point is that not everyone buying behaves like this (I didn't) yet they still get screwed by the system! Like I bought locally, not on price, and I'm now faced with a 150 mile round trip for work, warranty or paid (eg a hab service I'm paying for still requires a 150 mile round trip). But I'm lucky to have found a dealer who seems to have a similar attitude and reputation to JCMH (but is 75 miles away, not 450) - Tyne Valley Motorhomes. So even that was down to luck! That was my main point - from the customer's viewpoint the whole damn thing is a lottery from the local dealer scene to the product build quality.
> ...


You make a valid point there Roger.

We purchased our current van from the supplying dealers own stock. They were the nearest Adria dealer with the spec that we wanted. Other, nearer ones (the more local Discover outlets) only had poverty spec. Compacts at low prices but just not so civilised.

In a sense we were lucky that the dealer was also offering excellent prices AND a good PX on our previous van that Peter's people at JCMH didn't really want to know.

We would've probably bought from our dealer anyway because they had the right van in stock. So people don't always buy 'away' due to low prices, other factors come in too.

Anyhoo the trade can't have it both ways. They encourage attendance at motorhome shows by people from all over the country and then try to sell them vans. If they were so intent on the ethics of keeping 'their' customers etc they wouldn't sell 'away' either.

I'd heard (from Richard of RichardnGill) that the Lucca was OK once you got used to it. He voiced no opinion on vibrators though.

SDA


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I always equate MHs to car manufacturers like Morgan, TVR and even Lotus.
They are niche products, Dealers are very few and far between. They have remarkable unreliability records.
When we buy 2 million MHs a year we will enjoy the convenience that is afforded to the mainstream car market.
Until then quality and aftersales service will continue on a wing and a prayer.
Hymer is generally regarded as a good quality product. The only reason for this is the efficiency of scale in a country where the workforce are prepared to work.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

johnc said:


> crap, Gerry built rubbish


I didn't realise Compass were made in Germany?


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

b16duv said:


> johnc said:
> 
> 
> > crap, Gerry built rubbish
> ...


Come to think about it, I have never built a motorhome.
Gerry


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## 1happy (Jun 15, 2005)

johnc said:


> I bought my new motorhome back in April 2007 and without doubt it has been the worst purchase of my life.
> 
> What are the legal implication if I publish on this website a list with pictures of all of the crap, Gerry built rubbish we have had to put up with not to mention water pishing into the engine compartment, juddering and creaking springs.
> 
> ...


Hi johnc
I found your post very interesting and your first sentence is the way I feel about my now ex X250 :evil:, It & the dealer seriously spoiled a year of my life & I still don't feel 'over the experience'.....We have little or no recourse through the law (it is an ass :!: )
I think that we can use company reports & the forum to vent our frustrations, but until we have something akin to a 'lemon law' or better then some dealers,converters & manufacturers will continue to behave badly.

I was gobsmacked on one occasion at our last dealer when I overheard a member of staff (having just come off the telephone with a customer) talk about that customer & his/her problem in a_ not very professional manner _& in earshot of me & anyone else in the vicinity 8O It shows the contempt in which some of us shelling out thousands of pounds are held.
Needless to say we will only go to that dealer again if absolutely have to re any 'warranty' problem's on this van that can't be dealt with elsewhere :idea: 
I hope you get some justice soon. :!: 
Regards Catherine


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## 106573 (Aug 20, 2007)

Just on the "Upside" I have a three year old Coachbuilt, and so far no real problems, also the local Dealers are pretty good at what they do!!.
Hope I'm not tempting fate !!! :lol: 
Tinhut


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Tinhuttraveler said:


> Just on the "Upside" I have a three year old Coachbuilt, and so far no real problems, also the local Dealers are pretty good at what they do!!.
> Hope I'm not tempting fate !!! :lol:
> Tinhut


This illustrates the problem, Tinhuttraveler says his dealer is brilliant well. pretty good, were his actual words.

Picture this,

Dealer A buys in good MH's, sells them at a fair price, does all his own warranty work, in his opinion the customer is King, and rightly so, he gives every one tea and biscuits etc, happy to chat for hours on end, and he sells a good few MH's, but he's small beer to likes of the big names (won't embarrass anyone), he chuggs along quite happily.

Dealer B Buy's in not so good MH's polishes the rust off them, and sells them at a good profit , if there's a problem, he fobs them off til they just get fed up and go away, or he buys them back at a rediculous loss to the customer, he sells quite a lot of MH's, occasionally he sells a good one, and even does the odd repair, after all he has a mechanic to pay, and a showground to run, in fact he's the biggest dealer in his county, and he chuggs along quite happily.

Question is, if Dealer B is so crap how did he get so big, and this is how some dealers did it I think, very simply there is no such thing as bad publicity, you remember the name but not what was said about them so next time some one says where can I but a MH, whose is the first name to pop into your head, probably dealer B, because no one talks about the good guy, there's nothing to say, he does what he's been paid to do of course he will get reccomendations, but word spreads very slowly about good service.

We need more like JCMH, they got where they are, not so much by doing the job right, but by people saying he did.

So don't just say my dealer did a good job, name the poor bugger before he goes bust/

Kev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Very good post Kev.

The thing is I've noticed that when people post the name of a dealer where they've rec'd good service you often get a couple of people jumping in saying how they've been swindled by the very same company.

I suspect that there are very few real rotten eggs, but also very few shining beacons. Most are just bumbling along with the best of intentions but no real idea how to become exemplary. So occasionally they'll have a bad day, PX a lemon, employ a poor performing member of staff etc, etc and the punters suffer.

The really, really good dealers are the ones who if they have a bad day make sure it doesn't affect customers, turn the lemon PX into a non-lemon or get rid of it to the trade and make really really sure their staff perform all the time.

My own experience in a non-related field is that if you have a customer with a problem that you've caused it pays to over compensate them. They'll stick to you like glue for additional services and future purchases and sing your praises loud and clear to all and sundry. Act like a cheapskate and treat them badly and you can whistle your business goodbye. Unfortunately few motorhome dealers understand that basic rule.

SDA


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Ooh Ta Andy.



SDA said:


> The thing is I've noticed that when people post the name of a dealer where they've rec'd good service you often get a couple of people jumping in saying how they've been swindled by the very same company.


This is my point, we *need* to see *both* sides of the coin, every dealers is going to screw up, that's human nature, it's what they do about it that counts, I bet Peter at JC could tell some right tales of cock ups, and all sorts of funny stuff, but he probably can't, (shame)


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I agree about good publicity. We have had 2 new vans in the last 2 years, on both occasions I posted on here to say we had been given good service etc. There were very few replys to these posts and one van was from Brownhills Newark which normally always get a lot of replys when posted about. 


I think if I had posted a negative post about our collection of a new van there would have been a much larger response. 


It seems to me that a lot of people only want to moan about dealers but not praise any. 

Just my 2P worth. 


Richard...


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