# Carthago chic



## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Hi everyone; 
Are there any experts out there who would like to comment on this set-up?


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

I'm not an expert, but it looks fine to me. Although heat and steam will be produced by the Truma vent, I can't see that it could be enough to get in to the electric socket. What problem were you thinking of ?


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Come on guy and girls surely there are some gas engineers out there.

The problem I am having is that when I'm hooked up as per photo with the Aldi working flue gasses recycling back into the balanced flue and the Aldi get very noisy and upset and I have to switch it off. When I am not hooked up and the flap is shut the Aldi work perfect all day long.

Wobby


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

I think you mean Alde. Aldi is a German supermarket....... :lol: 
Seriously though, have you asked the dealer/manufacturer about your problem?


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## jack01 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Wobby

I am interested in your dilemma. I have the same set up as you, but have never run my heating system on gas whilst I have been hooked up. In fact I have not used gas for heating since I got the MH, so I don't know if I will experience the same problems. I hope not and hope that you will let us know how things develop.

regards
jack01


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Richard wondered why when I Google the name I kept getting the supermarket 
Hi Jack01 I thought that might be the case as you can run the heating on 2 kw. It would be great if you would run a test on your van, set it up as in the photo and the run the alde if it doesn't start to make a loud noise just put your hand between the flue and the hook-up for a second or two. The Alde will work OK if the wind is blowing from the front to the back of your van as the flue gasses are blown away from the hook-up.
I've been it touch with Lowdham who in turn were it touch with Alde who on seeing the photo agreed with my diagnosis, the ball is now in Carthago's court.

Wobby


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## Leapy (May 15, 2005)

I must say that I have never run my heater on gas when "hooked up" as the heating has been more than satisfactory on electric. Will have to give it a try

Pete


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Leapy said:


> I must say that I have never run my heater on gas when "hooked up" as the heating has been more than satisfactory on electric. Will have to give it a try
> 
> Pete


I suspect this is the case with most people including me but if its meant to work when on hook-up it should. My wife hate the cold so if the van is cold to boost things I ran the two together that how I discovered the fault.

A balance flue should not have any obstruction around its flue in a domestic installation it would fail to pass an inspection unless in was a fan assisted flue and even the the electrical connection is to near as on a cold day a lot of condense forms around the plug.

Wobby


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## shackman (May 6, 2007)

First, a quick thought - I seem to recall seeing or reading somewhere that a flu extension can be added to the truma standard flu.

Second, from a legal and safety point of view don't motorhome designs have some sort of certification sign-off, (TUV in Germany), before being let loose on to the public? 

I agree, a set-up like this would not be allowed for a house boiler outlet flu. Perhaps there might be a Corgi registered forum member out there who could comment on this.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

shackman said:


> First, a quick thought - I seem to recall seeing or reading somewhere that a flu extension can be added to the truma standard flu.
> 
> Second, from a legal and safety point of view don't motor-home designs have some sort of certification sign-off, (TUV in Germany), before being let loose on to the public?
> 
> I agree, a set-up like this would not be allowed for a house boiler outlet flu. Perhaps there might be a Corgi registered forum member out there who could comment on this.


Before moving to Ireland some 20 years ago I was a corgi registered service engineer.

In Ireland I set up my own service business covering the NW and had the Agency for both Aga/Rayburn and Waterford Stanley and was their only appointed agent for gas in that area Until I sold my business last year.
So you see I come with a little knowledge in these matters, and as far as I know the installation standard are the same. However I was hoping that there might be a service engineer for MH on this forum.

Wobby


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## jack01 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Wobby

I won't be digging out the Chic until Eastertime, but will run the Alde as you suggest and let you know the outcome. Have only used this particular MH for a few days since we got it in November '08, and am not too familiar with some of it's particular workings, I do however recall that the controls on the electric section of the heating system had 3 different settings up to a max of 3 KW.
At the time I was hooked up on our son's driveway and he was complaining to me ( in jest I hope !!!!!!! ) of how much it was costing him to keep us warm overnight. 
Enjoy your visit to the tulip fields.

regards
Jack01


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## Visconti (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi, I have a Chic 44, collected in December. I've nearly always run the heating on both Gas and electric - I can't say I've heard any significant noise - although the pump does cause some interference on the TV sound! I'd be interested to know how effective everyone elses heating is - mine is pretty disappointing - and using the 2kw electric does not keep the van that warm - and certainly does not heat the water enough for a shower - hence the need to run both electric and gas - even then I have found it takes well over an hour to warm up properly. I should however say - so far all 20 nights have been spent in the Alps - often at minus 10C or colder, so maybe I'm expecting too much? - I must say the Chic is hugely better than my previous McLouis. I believe that although the Alde display goes up to 3KW on electric, it is configured to only run on 2kw maximum for the UK market - I have tripped the fuses on a couple of sites using the 2kw setting myself - so have tended to drop back to 1kw - particularly as the electric seemed pretty ineffective - my fan heater does a much better job!

Regards
Graham


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## jack01 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Graham

Thanks for the info re KW'S on the settings, it's helpful to know these snippets.

Unlike you, I am quite impressed with our heating system even set on 1KW ( 1 night was -4c in Cumbria), and found the water temp adequate although didn't use the shower ( no !!! I used the site facilities. ) 

We much prefer the set up to the blown air fitted to our previous MH, and really like the way we can warm up the habitation area whilst we are on the move. 

It just goes to show that we all have different needs and different expectations of our leisure vehicles. Who would be a designer ?????
regards
jack01


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Visconti said:


> Hi, I have a Chic 44, collected in December. I've nearly always run the heating on both Gas and electric - I can't say I've heard any significant noise - although the pump does cause some interference on the TV sound! I'd be interested to know how effective everyone elses heating is - mine is pretty disappointing - and using the 2kw electric does not keep the van that warm - and certainly does not heat the water enough for a shower - hence the need to run both electric and gas - even then I have found it takes well over an hour to warm up properly. I should however say - so far all 20 nights have been spent in the Alps - often at minus 10C or colder, so maybe I'm expecting too much? - I must say the Chic is hugely better than my previous McLouis. I believe that although the Alde display goes up to 3KW on electric, it is configured to only run on 2kw maximum for the UK market - I have tripped the fuses on a couple of sites using the 2kw setting myself - so have tended to drop back to 1kw - particularly as the electric seemed pretty ineffective - my fan heater does a much better job!
> 
> Regards
> Graham


You may find that under some wind conditions the heater will work ok ours did Then when we were at Vanbits, weather very cold, I tried to run gas and electric together and the problem started had to keep switching the aldi on and off I then gave up. If yours gives you trouble you'll sure know it as the noise and smell from the flue is dreadful.

Have to say that the 2kw is very good on our with loads of hot water. Have you checked the circulating pump isn't set in the constant on position as the instructions say that this can lead to poor hot water temperature.

Regards Wobby


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Just to change the subject for a while, did anyone buy the external silver screen from their Carthago. I did and so did George, have you tried fitting it yet, trying to slide it behind that sucker on the side screen is a joke. George is trying to get carthago to change his!
:evil: :twisted: 

wobby


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

If your boiler works on electric when you are hooked up and paying for the electric, why would you then want to run it on gas and pay twice :? :? 

Save yourself money and just use the electric H U whilst on site.

Johnny F


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

mangothemadmonk said:


> If your boiler works on electric when you are hooked up and paying for the electric, why would you then want to run it on gas and pay twice :? :?
> 
> Save yourself money and just use the electric H U whilst on site.
> 
> Johnny F


I think your missing the Point Johnny, If one pays for a motor home that has equipment that is supposed to work in tandem, then whether you require it or not is immaterial it should work! wouldn't you agree?

A lot of sites in France & Spain have only 5 amp hook-ups that as you know is not enough to run 2 kWh element, 1kw yes, but then we would need the gas as well

Where ever possible we would of coarse use the hook-up as we are paying for it.

There is as far as I am concerned a safety issue as well. When you burn gas the products of combustion are C/o2 and water vapour, on a cold day this vapour / gas is condensing in and around the electrical hook-up underneath the plastic protective shield. (unlike when its raining the shield keeps the water away fro the plug) you can see there are many reasons for my concern.

I am not moaning for the sake of it, as an engineer in this field for the last 30 years I feel I no just a little.
wobby :wink:


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## jack01 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Wobby

No I didn't invest in a silver screen. I had one for our previous MA and NEVER used it, so I haven't bothered this time round. I spent enough as it was !!!!!

Having read previous comments re the difficulty in fitment I am doubly glad I didn't buy one.

regards
Jack01


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## Visconti (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks for that, I suspect my heating may not be working properly so I'll test it out on the drive at home in more reasonable tempreatures, although I'm taking it for a day out at Gunthorpe to get various bugs resolved very soon!

I tried to buy a screen after the van was delivered - but Rob at Lowdhams warned me off - so they definitely know they don't fit very well! - He suggested I talk to someone else, and that I had one made in the UK - haven't had time yet - but I did make 2 really good ones out of some insulation sheets used for laminate flooring that I bought from Homebase for £20! - Although they only seem to last about 10days or until it gets very windy! 
Graham


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Hi Graham;

I am getting my Silver screen altered by a chap near Flatford in Suffolk he is also altering a free standing awning for me, he specialises in tent repairs and alteration might even make you a silver screen. I could ask him next week when I go back to collect my bits. PM me if you like and I'll check it out.


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## Visconti (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes please, that would be great - I am planning to go to Peterborough in April and was hoping to get it sorted there, but it would be good to have another choice.
Graham


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## Brookie (Feb 22, 2006)

Thanks for the information chaps.
I was wondering whether there was a problem with the Alde in our 747 as we had it on 2KW whilst in -10 in North Yorkshire Moors and it was bloody freezing. I read the manual and noted you can run gas/electric and the van warmed up within 15mins. 
So I assume from this experience and what you are saying that electricity is OK to raise the van temp by a few degrees, but for any more you need the gas on.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Brookie said:


> Thanks for the information chaps.
> I was wondering whether there was a problem with the Alde in our 747 as we had it on 2KW whilst in -10 in North Yorkshire Moors and it was bloody freezing. I read the manual and noted you can run gas/electric and the van warmed up within 15mins.
> So I assume from this experience and what you are saying that electricity is OK to raise the van temp by a few degrees, but for any more you need the gas on.


Hi.

To put things into prospective a 2KW element is just 6,600 btus hrs that's about the same output as a radiator in a small living room in a terraced house. With temp of -10 it's just a bit too much for a 2kw unless you first get the van warm, 2kw should with any luck keep it warm. From cold (that's both heating and hot water) a 2 kw will take at least 1.5 - 2 hrs to do the job on it's own.

The other thing you have to take into account is whether you had the heat exchanger fitted that allows you to heat the hot water and if require the radiators from the engine whilst travelling. We have and this means when we stop the hot water system is already hot. If you haven't got this option then there is a lot of water to heat before it starts to heat the van.

I am not sure but I think this option was only available if you opted for the diesel fire Webasto system as well.

Hope this is of some help, Wobby


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Hi Wobby,

I agree with you, if a system is designed to run on both gas and elec then it should do so without causing problems.

I had the Alde system on my Benimar and often ran the two together when it was chilly, so it looks to me it is very much the positioning of the socket which is causing the problem.

As a lot of these vehicles will be used in colder climates I would have thought by now the manufacturers would be aware of the problem, and well on their way to a solution.

Changing the subject if I may, have you had the hydraulic levellers fitted yet, and if so what are your thoughts


Andrew


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Quick update: Carthago seem to be accepting that there is a problem with this type of Balance flue terminal because they are sending me a different type of terminal to fit in it place. When fitted and tested I will post a photo with comments. 

Wobby


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

I received a replacement terminal for the Alde heater the other day fitted it and it work a treat. You'll note from the photo that the fumes are now directed down and away from the electric hook-up so they can't recycle back into the air intake. Strange thing is that its a "Truma terminal", are they one and the same company? still at least it fixed. If you have the same as the first photo suggest you get it changed under warranty. I notice at the last NEC that the Carthago's were still being fitted with the Alde terminal.

Wobby


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Carthago owners may remember this thread.

Update:- Since this thread Carthago have taken on board the poor configuration of the above and have recited the electrical connection in their new motor-homes , so that's a result.

Wobby


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## angie (May 16, 2005)

Thats a good result then  It's nice to see a manufacturer that listens to its customers.


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