# Fitting additional leisure batteries



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Now the van is almost ready for our trip, we've got gaslow and everything we need. The weakest point is likely to be a single 3 year old 85Ah battery  which I'm expecting to fail 8O 

Vehicle = ford transit (mk6) conversion.

The leisure battery is under the drivers seat.

Only option is to replace this with like, and install 2nd (and maybe 3rd) under the passenger seat. The dealer sell this as an option - but I like DIY and am unemployed :'(

From reading here I should have the batteries close - but sadly they'll be 1-1.5m cable away. I've got some thoughts on the questions below - so just validating with MHFs collective expereince 

- Does anyone know the easiest way to route cable between driver and pax seat on a transit? I've asked dealer, but just checking if going down, out, and up is the only way?
- If down, out, and up is the only way - drilling hole, rubber grommet etc is fine - but what rust proofing would you use on the newly drilled hole?
- Can I earth the new batteries locally (seat bolts) or should I route earth back to battery #1?
- I would put a fuse on +ve from extra batteries (to protect agaist short in cable) - I'm assuming 25A would be sufficient for habbitation?
- What diameter cable would you recommend?
- Any recommendations in suppliers for batteries, cables, battery connectors?
- Assuming existing chargers etc will just work and won't care about the extra capacity?

Thanks all. Nothing like last minute :?


----------



## 94639 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Ryan

You might consider Elecsol batteries, quite expensive by comparison with other brands. On the plus side they are lighter in weight than flooded lead acid and have a higher a/h rating for the same size, they are sealed and supposedly maintenance free.

http://www.tayna.co.uk/catalog/1017/0/Elecsol-Batteries-Elecsol-Batteries-page1.html


----------



## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

You don't say if you are using sites or wild camping. Have you solar panels or a genny. If you are using sites then a 110amp hr battery would be sufficient. even for a few days off site if you use with care. if you are considering longer than you need something to recharge the battery.I managed ok with the 1 battery and a 110amp hr with a 85watt solar panel. I have elecsol batteries they will take a deep discharge ok and have a 5 year warranty. They are sealed so that is one less thing to worry about. 


Andy


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

brisey said:


> Hi Ryan
> 
> You might consider Elecsol batteries, quite expensive by comparison with other brands. On the plus side they are lighter in weight than flooded lead acid and have a higher a/h rating for the same size, they are sealed and supposedly maintenance free.
> 
> http://www.tayna.co.uk/catalog/1017/0/Elecsol-Batteries-Elecsol-Batteries-page1.html


Tanya was a company I had bookmarked. Didn't see these Elecsol under the motorhome section :roll:

Size of the 100AH would appear to fit as well!

Looks like there is a gromett in the passenger seat area too - but the one in the drivers side looks like the converters changed it to a "pipe" and have loads of cables in it already - so may have to drill.

Other thing I didn't consider is a "breather tube" outlet which is present on the battery on drivers side...


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

inkey-2008 said:


> You don't say if you are using sites or wild camping. Have you solar panels or a genny. If you are using sites then a 110amp hr battery would be sufficient. even for a few days off site if you use with care. if you are considering longer than you need something to recharge the battery.I managed ok with the 1 battery and a 110amp hr with a 85watt solar panel. I have elecsol batteries they will take a deep discharge ok and have a 5 year warranty. They are sealed so that is one less thing to worry about.
> 
> Andy


Aiming to wildcamp more but probably have every few (3/4/5) days at a site (we're only little and will need water, charge, and shower with unlimited water !).

No space for solar panel - remember our van is a 4.8m conversion, flat area of roof maybe 3.5m x 1.8m and on there we have 3 skylights, tv aerial, and various aero spoilers 

We have LED lights so reckon we'll be fine for a while - problem comes if we have the heating on as the fan on that seems to draw power..... As we'll be wild camping all year this may be an issue... We'll find out I guess!


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

you can also get Elecsol Batteries from OutdoorBits


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Thats good to know! Its about time I put money your way

Interestingly, your picture of the 100Ah battery has the +ve and -ve terminals around the opposite way to the one on Tanya!

Yours










Tanyas










If I was to do this I'd have the one the same as yours  But which is right? Also - the dimensions need to be deadly accurate - so do these dimensions include the "lip" on the base or is that additional?


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Nuke - I'm trying to call you and just geting voicemail 

OK - seats out and seeing what I've got....

FYI - Cable runs exist hidden under the floor! Most excellent! So I'll be sorting this.

If anyone has any suggestions over cable specification (70A?) fuse (25A?) - and where I can get these from (with battery terminals etc) I'd be pleased to hear!

(FYI - also a cable run to the dash so I can sneak 12v habitation power for the stereo!)


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'd go for:

1) identical, largest, cheapest, flooded leisure batteries you can fit, 
2) THICK welding cable between them, 
3) tap off positive on one battery, and negative on the other (not QUITE as pic in link shows)
4) local earth to chassis fine, 
5) fused twice as in http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/second leisiure battery.htm
6) Vented with clear washer bottle tubing to outside via hole/grommet

If only LOW charging and discharge currents, 2) and 3) are less important.

Dave


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> I'm trying to call you and just geting voicemail


Sorry busy all morning, phone ringing and ringing lol.


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Cheers Dave

1) identical, largest, cheapest, flooded leisure batteries you can fit,

AC> Yep - looking at 2x the ones recommended above and removing existing. Think 3x @ 20kg will be pushing my MGW!!

2) THICK welding cable between them,

AC> Probably not possible  Though current usage off 12V in van is quite low - highest thing we have is 10A.

3) tap off positive on one battery, and negative on the other (not QUITE as pic in link shows)

AC> I was going to do +ve to +ve (obviously). But the MH seems to be chassis earthed. So I either (a) earth both batteries to chassis; (b) remove -ve off primary battery and route to new battery, then earth the 2nd battery. Are you suggesting (b) would be better?

4) local earth to chassis fine,

AC> See above

5) fused twice as in http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/second leisiure battery.htm

AC> Yep

6) Vented with clear washer bottle tubing to outside via hole/grommet

AC> Yep - though the batteries say "The battery requires no venting at all as the gases are recombined within the valve walls internally"

If only LOW charging and discharge currents, 2) and 3) are less important.

AC> Erm....


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

nukeadmin said:


> Sorry busy all morning, phone ringing and ringing lol.


Customers eh? Who'd 'av 'em?

(I'll make a cuppa then try again - PS I'm using a 01452 number as its free rather than 0845 ... :lol:


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

As to my 2) and 3), digest this short thread:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-168474.html#168474

As to your batteries, it seems you have decided to go VRLA type
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA
rather than flooded with top-up caps. Generally speaking flooded are cheaper, IMHO offer longer life in practice, are not at all necessarily any higher maintenance (this is more a function of your charger setting) and venting is easy with washer jet tube and a drill hole/grommet.

Dave


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Cheers Dave - advice taken on board

OK - batteries orderded from Nuke - should get them next week.

Just realised, I can put both batteries next to each other under the passenger seat using short cables. Connect battery 1 -ve to earth; connect -ve of battery 1 to battery 2; postivive of battery 1 to battery 2, and then take a feed off battery to the habitation side. This better proximity should negate the cable losses. Pretty mutch your picture #1 you kindly linked except the link to motorhome is actually just to chassis earth.










The only connections to existing battery +ve are 3 x 2.5mm cables, so I will join these together and route a single large cable (fused at battery end at 25A) between the seats to the new batteries (1.2m run)


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Hi all,
Excuse my ignorance,but why should the positive cable go to the second battery first and terminate at the first battery and the earth from the m/h go vice versa? I said I was ignorant!
tony.


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

hi Tony, they are wired in parallel...

two positives join together to give you 12V and 2x the amps ( and the 2 negs join and go to earth)


Wired in series, they would give you 24v and the half the amps.


Infact ignore the above

I dont know why the order is the way it is , but it should not make a difference..


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

thanks John,I appreciate the the difference between parallel and series, what I was trying to find out was why the cables from the m/h terminated on different batteries.


----------



## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi all,

Looking at this thread and considering new batteries, I checked out the elecsol link and saw varying prices for different capacities, so: -

A/h	price	price/ah
70	92.99	£1.33
100	89.99	£0.90
110	106.99	£0.97
125	126.99	£1.02
220	217.95	£0.99
270	261.99	£0.97

Looking at this, the 100 amp battery is the cheapest per amp/hour capacity required. Would it be best to buy 3 off the 100A/h instead of 1 270, or is there losses when 3 connected as opposed to a single battery?

Or 2 off 110A/h instead of 1 off 220A/h for example?

Thanks 

David


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

GEMMY said:


> Hi all,
> Excuse my ignorance,but why should the positive cable go to the second battery first and terminate at the first battery and the earth from the m/h go vice versa? I said I was ignorant!
> tony.


Tony, see the link from Dave above - Ohms law n all. Its all about the cable resistance. Zero resistance it doesn't matter, but real world it could. (minimised with thick cables - but not negated).


----------



## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

b16duv said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Looking at this thread and considering new batteries, I checked out the elecsol link and saw varying prices for different capacities, so: -
> 
> ...


Volume? dimensions?
+ cost of cables; connections; battery termnals

Probably not a lot in it really.


----------



## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

With the aim of getting perfect sharing of charge and discharge currents the cable resistance between the load and the two batteries should be identical. This is the reason for showing the connections as they are.
In practice if you are using thick welding cable and connecting all to one battery the difference in sharing will be small.
C.


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Thank you Clive.
tony


----------

