# Offensive... or not?



## Bazbro

When we tell a joke, should we be sensitive to every possible situation or person who may or may not be offended? Or should we just tell the joke, and leave it to the individual whether they find it hilarious or unpleasant?

My view is that if we go through life tip-toeing round other people's sensitivities, then we lead a sterile, soulless, dowdy life.

On the other hand, if we say what we like (provided there's not the intention to upset - a totally different matter) in this free country of ours, then it's up to other people to be a bit more robust with their outlook on life. Why should I be stifled by the narrow views of another?

Some people laugh at pathetic, crude, ignorant jokes - some don't, simple as that.

Discuss... while I don my flak jacket!


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## johnsandywhite

Jokes have and always will choose Race, creed, colour, disabilities. You name it? A joke will be made about it. I find you have to be able to laugh at yourself before you can laugh at other's. I think we have all been in situations where at the time it wasn't funny. But later after the event it becomes so and we then tell jokes about it. :wink:


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## Bazbro

So, JSW, do you tell the joke and be damned, or shut up because "someone" may be offended?


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## 88847

Hi barry /Sue

as they say in moscow.........................who gives a toss

i have gone thru my life with the attitude that a spade is a spade, and not a shovel, i prefer to be told it as it is and not as they would like it to be

If i offend people then it is not always intentional, and i do not believe that poeple are as thin skinned as they make out.................we all like to laugh

No one of an adult age is that naive to have not heard it all before

member of the NON TIP TOEING CLUB............N0 00001

Paul


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## Scotjimland

Many jokes are racist, Scots, Irish, Pole , Jew etc .. 
As a Scot I love the humour of the stereotypical Scottish mean joke .. I take no offense, if I did I would have left Essex years ago .. 

An infamous Bernard Manning racist joke .. 
Is a dog born in a stable a horse ? 

I love Billy Connelly too. always making jokes about the Jocks, I see the funny side and don't take offense, his toilet humour also has me in stitches.. 

I say, Get a life, if we can't laugh at ourselves what is the point of living.


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## Bazbro

Fair enough, Paul - so why was bsb2000 made to feel that he had to remove a joke by people to whom (presumably) the joke did not refer to?


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## johnsandywhite

Where is the club. I want to join. :wink:


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## 88724

A Joke is a Joke

If one were to tell Muslim jokes over and over to a Muslim, that may be abuse, but there is no need to *blow it up* out of all proportion, when one or two Jokes are told on a forum.

Barry is right many times its down to intent.


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## Scotjimland

johnsandywhite said:


> Where is the club. I want to join. :wink:


I thought you were the founder member John :wink:


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## johnsandywhite

BarryandSue said:


> So, JSW, do you tell the joke and be damned, or shut up because "someone" may be offended?


I just posted saying I want to join the club. If I offend someone? Then maybe I loose a friend. If they cannot take a joke? They are not worth having as a friend. :wink:


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## johnsandywhite

Scotjimland said:


> johnsandywhite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the club. I want to join. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you were the founder member John :wink:
Click to expand...

  No. I think Red One is the founder member. 00001. I would like to be number 00002 please. :wink:


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## 2point

The jokes I posted were not randomly selected.

One was topical and not racist, one was topical and racist(potentially) and one racist.

To me they are all funny, when told in context in the 'correct' company they are fine.

It's a oft quoted trait of us British (and Irish !), to be able to laugh at ourselves and make light of the most serious of situations. I'm proud of that humourous ability.


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## DABurleigh

Barry,

No great insights of wisdom I'm afraid, other than it isn't in practice as black and white as your question suggests, and common sense rules. The internet is hardly the ideal medium for handling delicate flowers.

If I draw the parallel with harassment in the workplace, whether something IS harassment crucially depends on how it is RECEIVED, NOT how it was INTENDED. Crazy I know, perhaps politically correct, but that's the law. The implication there is that people can not presume others to have the same, perhaps robust, nature as themselves and must make allowances accordingly.

In practice, therefore, it pays to know how the recipient or audience will receive something beforehand. Among close-knit teams, often of mixed sex, there can be a lot of good-natured and well-received racy and near-the-knuckle wit, banter, repartee and flirting, because everyone has gradually picked up the signals of what would, and what would not, cause offence. Only rarely is offence actually intended. With a new audience, it would obviously pay to be cautious until one again picks up the boundaries of acceptability. If one inadvertently causes offence, then apologise. 

Therefore in an internet context, the audience is inevitably unknown, so personally I would err on the side of caution (whilst simultaneously being grateful to those who push the boundaries and amuse me, even at the risk of upsetting someone else .... call me a hypocrite if you like).

Communities such as MHF gradually learn what is and is not acceptable to them as a whole. For example, there is almost a complete absence of bad language; that is one standard that is established.

At the risk of going off even further at a tangent, while I'm musing on these matters, there is another fascinating aspect of human nature in that often it is not WHAT is said, but WHO said it, that is crucial is deciding whether something constitutes harassment or is found offensive. This is most prevalent in male-female interaction; a woman can find something funny, charming and flattering from one man, but feel genuinely harassed by the same thing from another. I am still waiting for a judge to despair that harassment in law is often nothing more than beta-males trying to get away with the things they see alpha males do 

Dave


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## 88724

Hi Dave

That law is well intentioned (most of this crud is) but anyone could be caught by that, no-one can KNOW how the person receives it. In many cases no harm is felt but it is a nice little earner.


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## Bazbro

A good, balanced, sensible view, thank you Dave. 
I know of the harrassment law to which you refer (it was the despair of fair, right-minded people when I was at work) and was put in place by... well, shall we say people who are trying to mould society into the image that they want. That doesn't make it right, needed, or even desirable.

It's important to differentiate between genuine abuse or harassment, and robust, every-day behaviour. If I wanted to, I could see abuse and harassment of me in the views of many other people, but I want them to have the freedom to express themselves so that I don't lose that freedom myself.

Freedom of expression is being suppressed by this namby-pamby harassment law (brought about by the 'race' lobby) and I can't believe that it ever gained the credence it did. I'll defend anybody's right to be as big a bigot as they want to be - they show only themselves up. It doesn't need a law to ask "Do you think you're a victim of something?" That's madness. This smacks of the hand of lawyers, creaming off Legal Aid...

It's a contemptible law.


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## 88927

So Barry
Why the question???????????
I am intrigued to know..... Is there someone on this site that cannot take a joke? If so why are they visiting sites on the internet??? There is an awful lot more than jokes (well intentioned or not) on the WWW. My son did a search some time ago for Yu Ghi Oh, and inadvertantly found a cartoon sex site. We were horrified that a 12 year old could stumble across porn as easily as that and it managed to overcome all our filters etc.
Now that's what I call bad taste.....
Please feel free to send me any jokes you like, I get dozens already, and whilst some are in bad taste, or filthy, most are just funny, whatever the topic.
Please don't let us be frightened to tell jokes, it is after all what makes us British....... And proud of it.
Keith


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## Bazbro

It was this post:
http://tinyurl.com/8ajcy
that prompted my thoughts in this direction, Keith.


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## johnsandywhite

BarryandSue said:


> It was this post:
> http://tinyurl.com/8ajcy
> that prompted my thoughts in this direction, Keith.


  It's a shame that some of us didn't get to see the original post or joke as it was meant to be. Before it was edited out again. :roll:


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## Bazbro

EXACTLY, JSW!

I'm an adult, and I think I'm capable of differentiating between a crude, racist rant, or a gentle, subtle reworking of the English language, or whatever it may have been. That someone else decided that they didn't like it now means that I cannot judge for myself. It's that fine point that I'm trying to show up.


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## johnsandywhite

Yes Barry. That work's for me too. :wink:


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## annej

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire


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## DABurleigh

I shouldn't agonise over it. Ian posted something with the best of intentions but to which someone objected. So he removed it. It is clear he felt he shouldn't really have to, but it was the expedient way of proving his intentions and avoiding further hassle. The end.


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## johnsandywhite

Surely if it was that offensive? It would have been locked or chopped by a Moderator? :wink:


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## Scotjimland

Perhaps we need a new forum heading.. 

"Offensive Jokes.. read at your own risk .."

then no one need complain of being offended. 8)


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## Bazbro

I'm sorry Dave, but it's not the end. It's provoked me to question the whole business of what I find offensive, how tolerant I should be, and how tolerant other people should be in their stead.


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## DABurleigh

Trouble is, the poster won't put them there because s/he doesn't regard them as offensive .....


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## Bazbro

But who decides what's offensive, Scotjimland?
And that's really what this is all about - censorship. Do we censor so that we offend no-one, or offend just a few, or offend quite a few, or offend everybody. Or do we self-censor, read these things and either laugh, or move on with distaste?

We are all adults, aren't we???


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## Detourer

mmmmmm.....let the minority or individual dictate what the majority can witness....now where did that happen before I wonder!


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## Scotjimland

Hi Barry, Hi Dave 

You hit the nail on the head, we are all adults and most of us instinctively know when a joke might offend someone or is in poor taste.. but as you point out we all have different standards and one man's joke is another man's insult. So what is the answer ? Do we ban jokes along with the kids ..lol :?


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## DABurleigh

You managed to ban the kids? Tell me more ....


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## Bazbro

I want to form my own opinion - I don't want to be 'shielded' from something that someone else finds 'offensive'. I'm big enough and ugly enough to decide for myself whether the poster is ignorant, a buffoon, a racist, a humourist, a comedian, and so on.

Having said all that, I appreciate that this is a 'Community', so I'm happy to let the Moderators do what they see best for this site, and leave it in their capable hands. If they over-censor, then members will leave; if they under-censor, the same. So I'm happy to leave it to their fine judgement.


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## DABurleigh

The person who now requests a moderating team balanced in ethnicity, colour, religious beliefs, age, sex, abled/disabled, etc. etc. shall be hung, drawn and quartered by the anti-PC police.......

Dave


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## 88724

I will not watch the Passion of Christ, Reason I read the bible, and me being me I looked up scourging and Flagelation. So I know that Gibson will have made this a gory and accurate representation of the sickening violence of those last 12 Hours. 

My brother was about to watch it and is taste in films is brutal, I said to him before he watched it I hope you can take it, he laughed, rang me later to tell me he had nearly lost his lunch and that he never thought a religious film would be like that.

My point is that I know even after all I have seen and been through for real, I would not enjoy seeing what I already know happened, but I dont condem the film or wish it banned. It upset the Jews ? even though they are still waiting for the messiah and they do not believe Jesus is the one.

Sometimes you have to make adult decisions, banning everything is pointless and counterproductive.

Alf Garnet people dont get it at all, the racism was portrayed to show how stupid racism is, same with love thy neighbour.

The sick humour in the Army after people died, is a method of coping no-one means anything by it, we cried and took the **** and then got on with it.

Can you imagine it armed to the teeth loaded weapons awaiting rapid deployment crying and taking the p**s over a mate who had died, then shaping up and getting on with it, time to mourn was after when we got home.

If any outsider had heard what we said they would have been appalled, it was a means of coping.


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## annej

Hi George, 
I don't think the humour you refer to is exclusive to the army. I have seen this type of humour at every "wake" I've been to. It is how many of us deal with the grief of the death of someone close to us. Maybe my family are a bit weird 8O I'm one of them after all :lol: but remembering what sods the dearly departed could be during life is what helps us cope. 
Anne


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## Bazbro

So-called 'black humour' is also used as a 'shield' by our emergency services and nurses & doctors (as well as many others, I'm sure) to protect themselves from the effects of what they have to endure on all our behalf. Some of the remarks may seem, in the cold light of day, to be crass, insensitive, or downright cruel, but they serve the purpose.

Sometimes they make one cringe, but that in itself somehow diverts the mind from the awful reality of the situation.

It's humour and if you find it funny, it's funny. Don't let anyone take that away from you by their po-faced approach to life.


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## annej

Hi Barry,
I agree with everything you say. My sister-in-law worked in A&E and later in the burns unit at the Royal Infirmary in Glasgow. She is the one who always seems to get the ball rolling to relieve the tension usually felt at family funerals, reliving some of the comical moments of her experience in nursing or in the deceased life. I think it comes with the job. It certainly helps the other members of the family. Can I just mention that I will be attending a family funeral on Saturday morning (brother-in-laws mother, whom I have known since childhood) but, as she had reached the age of 88 years and was still in her own house looking after herself until the day before she died, she didn't do too badly. If I had the choice, I think I would like the same deal. 

Anne


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## Bazbro

Sad, Anne, but 88 is a good innings. Mind you, I shan't think that when I'm 87, though! 
Now that's a joke - any 87 year olds out there who have been offended? If so, tough....


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## 88927

Hi Detourer
Yep it happens here in Britain with our government every day mate!!!
George, can I have yer boots when you go? Or maybe that picture you keep in your wallet?
This can be funny if you "understand" it, and my thoughts on the original question is that people should keep their noses out unless asked for an input. If you don't like what you see or hear, move along swiftly. Everyone here should be brave enough to make up their minds about things, mostly folks are brave enough to go out into the world and camp......
Compared to what goes on in the real world, what is a distasteful joke? Try looking into a kids home and ask yourself how bad are these stories???
Keith


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## annej

My sentiments exactly, Barry, 88 years is certainly a good innings. She had a good life and more to the point, didn't regret anything. That's what it's all about. It's going to be hard for me on Saturday as my brother-in-law was her only "child" (60 years old) so he doesn't have the family network that a lot of people have. 

Anne


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## DABurleigh

Love the avatar, Anne 

Where do people get them from?

Dave


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## annej

Hi Dave,

This was e-mailed to me with the caption "Convertible motorhome for sale, good runner" I love it. :lol:


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## 88724

I am an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac.

I often lie awake all night pondering the existence of Dog.

Aimed at a mythical (architypal) dyslexic, could a dyslexic person really be offended by it?


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## 88741

Missed al this yesterday as our phone lines have been cut for the last few days and we are only back on now.
My first reaction was a feeling of unease as it seems like mods have to now have the wisdom of solomon to decide wether or not to cut a post. And that I definateley do not have.
My second reaction was to resign as I do not want to be placed in the position of being regarded as a censor like figure who goes around deciding that my values shall reign over what other people would like to see on the site.
As a moderator I regard my 'duty' is to the 'average' person on the site, and as such I have to decide if anyone on the site would be offended by what has been posted.
Personally I do not find crude or sexually orientated jokes at all funny, but would not delete them if they were on the Jokes forum, but if a sexual or crude slant was in post anywhere else on the site then I would have no hesitation in deleting it and PM'ing the poster as to why it had been deleted.
Racisim on the other hand is a very delicate area at the moment and I would probably remove any pointed racisit jokes, ie An irishman goes into a pub etc etc would stay, but a joke about terroism and any cultural or religous group would get the chop.
If this is not PC then I do not really care I am afraid, I consider myself average in sensibilities and have to act as my conscience dictates; I really care about this site and will fight to protect it from discredit or falling standards


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## 88742

Who’d have thought that such a crap joke could have caused such a response !!!

I can laugh at just about any joke and those that can’t IMHO should get a life. The ‘passing on’ of jokes reflect your feeling and in turn should indicate to Governments etc what the true mood of a Nation is.

I have read with interest the comments on this and the ‘joke’ thread and would like to thank the majority of posters who appear to sympathise with my actions.

I feel very strongly about the state of this Country, but that’s best left for another time. In the meantime I am posting the original joke (Seems a bit of an anti climax now) for you to form your own opinions of the initial response it got.

I have no intentions of removing it this time I will leave it to the Moderators, which incidentally Helen, if you find this offensive you better get that mouse finger exercised as there’s a lot more like it on these boards.

-----------------------
Two Muslim woman shopping for rucksacks, one says to the other 
“Does my Bomb look big in this”
-----------------------


………………………Yes I know, hardly seemed worth it now.


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## 88741

Just getting to it now, as I said I have been off line for a while due to phone fault. :wink:


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## johnsandywhite

Two Muslim woman shopping for rucksacks, one says to the other 
“Does my Bomb look big in this” 

No I don't find that offensive. It will no doubt upset some. It states perfectly that a woman is always taking notice of her appearance. No matter what the situation. :wink:


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## DubPaul

that's a great joke!


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## 2point

Two Muslim woman shopping for rucksacks, one says to the other 
“Does my Bomb look big in this” 

"Big? No it's divine. I'd even go as far to say it's to die for"


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## 88742

Just browsing the front page and something struck me, I’m curious why would someone who finds that sort of post offensive open a thread that is entitled ‘Two Muslim women….’ and posted in the ‘Jokes & Trivia’ section???


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## 88724

Star trek theme

They boldly go to seek out new cases, seeking out new chances to be upset


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## 88974

To go back to my original post I did not state that it was offensive but questioned wheter is was appropriate, I personally do laugh at irishmen jokes, dumb blonde etc some people do take offence but I don't, if you cant laugh at your self then you live a morbid life. I just feel that telling jokes about a very serious situation that is still ongoing may be construed as slightly racial. I know we now live in a society that one would feel that we have to tip toe around peoples feelings and always be potically correct but that is the way society has changed, personally I think we have gone too far. If I started telling blue jokes on this forum, I am sure that people would start saying that it was inappropriate, not that it wasn't funny or it was sexist or offensive but just not the right place to be telling those type of jokes. There is a time and a place for everything. And the same goes for jokes that may offend someone, why not err on the side of caution. They may not have the same sense of humour as yourself. When you do not know your audience and the reaction your jokes may cause- play safe.


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## 89079

A very interesting debate and a credit to the site and its contributors that it can take place in a non-confrontational way.

I wonder though if the same rational response would be given to any joke posted that might, for example, ridicule or satirise in a similar way, some aspect of the actions of the british forces in Iraq. It seems apparent to me that these types of jokes do tend to be acceptable if they reflect the currently dominant view of the audience, and be unacceptable if they challenge it.

btw... no offence taken by me. Curious as to the motivation behind such posts in a motorhome forum though, even in a jokes page. The desire to simply amuse others doesn't seem to quite cover it.

---
Steven


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## 88724

I think we should operate the other way, all jokes are OK and if you dont like a particular joke just let it be, far easier on the legal system too.


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## 93795

I would have expected that if an item was posted on the 'Jokes' Forum then people would know that it was a joke. Quite often the 'Subject' line gives an indication of the subject to help you decide if you should read it.
Phil.


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## 88724

Hi Steven

There was another joke here that satirised an American explaining his point with a 5 KG lump hammer.


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