# What to look for when viewing a motorhome



## barryd

Tomorrow I am going to look at a Bessacarr E495, 2008.

I am going mainly with the intention of just getting a feel for it and to look at the chassis, layout, overhang, measurements, weight plates etc with a view to hopefully being able to put a scooter rack on it. The dealer Marquis (yes I know) has agreed to take it to a weigh bridge but I doubt we will do that tomorrow, its just a first look.

Obviously I will look for signs of damp as well but what would be on your list of things to look for on a first viewing?

Should I ask to look at the service record, hab checks, V5 etc at this stage?


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## raynipper

If at all possible Barry take a pic of the V5 under some pretext and get in touch with the previous owner as to why he sold.
I'm sure just a sneaky slide with a 'smart' phone permanently held in hand. After taking a snap then ask if you can take one properly.

Ray.


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## barryd

Thanks Ray. Anyone else?


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## cabby

Yes Barry, check history, how many owners, check tyre dates.check for damp in the back lockers, especially the floor locker area.Look at any extras fitted to see the standard of workmanship, shoddy means too mean to pay a proper man to do the job so what else will they have scrimped on.

Good luck though and hope it is what you are looking for.
Oh yes, take pen and paper to make notes, one can never remember everything told or seen.


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## raynipper

As Cabby says but instead of notes take pics. It's easy to take pics behind things like the dash, cupboards, boiler, etc.

Ray.


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## aldra

Barry

Just take you

You are no newbee to motorhomes

Trust your instincts 

Keep you eyes well open 

Sandra


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## barryd

Thanks again. I know what to look for but thought I would see if anyone came up with anything I hadnt thought of.


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## coppo

Take a damp meter, that will be the main thing, then write out a list of what to check and tick them off as you go along and make notes, open windows, check all blinds, flyscreens, check tyres and date on them, exterior locker doors, check underneath chassis for damp floor underneath/corrosion, check everything is working inside, check shower tray for cracks.

Check for service history/cambelt change.

Check windscreen for damage

Check roof for damage, hailstones or badly fitted accessories that have been removed or still present, ask to borrow a step ladder.

Check windows close and open properly all around.

Open awning if got one.

Check storage and locker doors inside.

Check heating system is adequate/size of boiler/type etc.

Make a list of what you would need to add to get it how you want and use this to try and bargain even more off the price, ie gaslow/underslung tank, solar, another battery, air suspension for weight upgrade, cruise control.

Paul.


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## barryd

Good list Paul thanks. If I were buying it I think I would insist on a proper hab check which ill get someone in to do.


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## coppo

Don't forget Barry, that most dealers will not be responsible(So they tell you) for any damage/damp caused by after fit accessories not part of the original build, including solar, extra batteries, bike racks, sat dishes, aeriels, fiamma locks to doors, remember a warranty most of the time is not worth the paper its written on.

So damp caused by a badly fitted bike rack or solar panel will not be covered.


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## cabby

most important thing to remember. DON'T BREAK IT.>>>


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## barryd

Thanks again. I doubt it will be any good. It ticks all the boxes but the overhang on the E495 just puts me off. Its this one. http://www.marquisleisure.co.uk/motorhomes/stock-item/bessacarr-e495-33116

I really want to look at a Lunar Roadstar 726 but the one I was pestering a dealer about down near Gloucester who for weeks didnt return my calls or emails when I finally got to speak to them its sold.

There is another one but its even further away in Somerset. Will see what this one looks like tomorrow.


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## raynipper

But the wheel is on the wrong side Barry.!!!!

Ray.


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## icer

check mot history on gov mot site it is listed under fiat
mot due 25.3.17 last mot @ 32853 advisory rear tyres worn on both edges
vehicle has not dome much milage past few years

Ian


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## Pudsey_Bear

The overhang looks big Barry, if it had a towbar I'd get someone to stand on it while at the weigh bridge, it'd give an idea of what you can carry.

I'd also take a video as well as pictures, use the pause button if the salesman keeps rabbiting, (if Michelle is with you get her to distract him so you can do your defective work) it's amazing what the camera catches that you may not have seen, you also don't need to focus, just let the camera do the work, video under the body too.


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## emjaiuk

Two things would concern me. In summer, if the door was secured open it looks as if it would cover the fridge vents which may raise the temperature of the Leffe. Also the awning seems very low in relation to the door which suggests the door may foul the awning bars. None of which is of concern if the weight isn't right for you, although I wouldn't be surprised if Marquis didn't want some sort of commitment to purchase subject to weight before taking it to a weigh bridge. I presume you would insist on observing the weighing.



Malcolm


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## barryd

emjaiuk said:


> Two things would concern me. In summer, if the door was secured open it looks as if it would cover the fridge vents which may raise the temperature of the Leffe. Also the awning seems very low in relation to the door which suggests the door may foul the awning bars. None of which is of concern if the weight isn't right for you, although I wouldn't be surprised if Marquis didn't want some sort of commitment to purchase subject to weight before taking it to a weigh bridge. I presume you would insist on observing the weighing.
> 
> Malcolm


Well they made out they wouldnt have a problem me getting it weighed. The more I look at it the more I think I am wasting my time. The overhang is massive. Armitage Trailers think it shouldnt be an issue if you balance the van right and it will depend what the weight ratio is and where stuff like the leisure battery and water tank are stored. They need to be forward or at least not right at the back.

I just cannot get my head around putting a bike on a van with such a huge overhang. It just doesnt look right.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Well they made out they wouldnt have a problem me getting it weighed. The more I look at it the more I think I am wasting my time. The overhang is massive. Armitage Trailers think it shouldnt be an issue if you balance the van right and it will depend what the weight ratio is and where stuff like the leisure battery and water tank are stored. They need to be forward or at least not right at the back.
> 
> I just cannot get my head around putting a bike on a van with such a huge overhang. It just doesnt look right.


Keep eating the cheese Barry and swap Michelle for a heavier model to keep the weight forward:laugh:


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## emjaiuk

I think you're right to be worried. if it were me I'd insist on the weighing, including each axle before anything. If they hesitate I'd walk. Without the correct weight for your purposes all else is irrelevant. Mind you, you could always buy a toad. <G>

Malcolm


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## barryd

I wont be buying a toad thats for sure. If I have to ill just put a chunk of money in a "Hank" fund instead of getting a new van and just run him forever as it seems irreplaceable. 

There is the Swift Esprit 496 and the Bessacarr 496 that have more payload and a shorter overhang on an Alko chassis. The Swift Esprit has over 900kg but they are as rare as hens teeth, very new and still too pricey and its debatable if the Swift would get on the drive as its wide but it might be worth waiting two or three years for one of them to drop £10K to around the same cost as that Bessacarr.


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## rayrecrok

Barry with your skills best to check there is a wheel on each corner..:wink2::grin2:


ray.


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## Gretchibald

Maybe not an an initial viewing but before accepting any van I would check that every single thing actually works eg every switch, dial, heater, appliance , awning, int lights, blinds, catches , doors, taps, etc etc . From what I.ve read on here it's not always a pleasant experience if you have to return after the sale.
As an example , although the Fiat heater in my van works , it doesn't put hot air to the footwells, anyone buying my van wouldn't notice this until the following winter. Big job to get at the heater, I won't be bothering.
The step retracts automatically when you start the engine however there is also a manual switch on the dash for this op which doesn't work , the old man I bought the van off said he was supposed to take the van back to the factory in Germany to get this fixed but never got around to it.


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## raynipper

Gretchibald said:


> Maybe not an an initial viewing but before accepting any van I would check that every single thing actually works eg every switch, dial, heater, appliance , awning, int lights, blinds, catches , doors, taps, etc etc . From what I.ve read on here it's not always a pleasant experience if you have to return after the sale.
> As an example , although the Fiat heater in my van works , it doesn't put hot air to the footwells, anyone buying my van wouldn't notice this until the following winter. Big job to get at the heater, I won't be bothering.
> The step retracts automatically when you start the engine however there is also a manual switch on the dash for this op which doesn't work , the old man I bought the van off said he was supposed to take the van back to the factory in Germany to get this fixed but never got around to it.


Yes, there is usually a reason people move a vehicle on or trade up. This is why I would always try and contact the previous owner.

Ray.


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## nicholsong

Gretchibald said:


> Maybe not an an initial viewing but before accepting any van I would check that every single thing actually works eg every switch, dial, heater, appliance , awning, int lights, blinds, catches , doors, taps, etc etc . From what I.ve read on here it's not always a pleasant experience if you have to return after the sale.
> As an example , although the Fiat heater in my van works , it doesn't put hot air to the footwells, anyone buying my van wouldn't notice this until the following winter. Big job to get at the heater, I won't be bothering.
> The *step retracts automatically when you start the engine however there is also a manual switch on the dash for this op which doesn't work *, the old man I bought the van off said he was supposed to take the van back to the factory in Germany to get this fixed but never got around to it.


Alan

We have almost identical MHs, but ours does not retract automatically, unless that facility is broken, and our only switch for retraction is the one next to the door and just below the main saloon light switch. We have a light on the light-cluster panel, by driver's right knee, which indicates whether step is retracted and I initially thouht it was a switch but it is only a light surround.

We also have a sound alarm which is activated when one turns on the ignition and the step is still down. I assume you have that also.

Maybe someone has modified yours. If not maybe it was an additional feature introduced in Summer 2003 after our build.

Geoff


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## Gretchibald

Geoff, sorry I'm getting mixed up . you are correct the alarm sounds if you start the engine with the step out and you have to use the switch by te door to retract it, hower the old man did tell me that when he bought the van from Niesmann they told him to bring the van back to have the dash switch working the step.


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## nicholsong

Gretchibald said:


> Geoff, sorry I'm getting mixed up . you are correct the alarm sounds if you start the engine with the step out and you have to use the switch by te door to retract it, hower the old man did tell me that when he bought the van from *Niesmann they told him to bring the van back to have the dash switch working the step.*


OK, but any half-competent auto-electrician could do that, without driving it to Germany FFS. If the alarm is activated by the ignition switch the step motor could be wired in the same way - although the wiring might have to be upgraded.

If the owner bought from Niesmann, or more likely agent - Brownhills then(?) why did htth not just throw in the mod? - I would have made it a condition of the contract, but I am a hard negotiator:surprise::laugh:

I am not sure I want the facility as if I want to run the engine and go outside I may break my neck. At the moment I have two warnings about the step - the built-in one and BASIA!:grin2: She has her uses - even before supper time.:laugh:

Geoff


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## JanHank

I just remember something that didn´t work on the Navajo, the *A*ir *C*onditioning.
The van had only been taken to MH shows, it was a 2014 model and we bought it in March 2015.
Had to have a whole new unit and because we didn´t go through the proper channels for the gaurentee it cost us 600.00€.

BTW it´s not this bad speller who´s bought the site. >:grin2:
Jan

Have you seen the van yet Barry?


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## Pudsey_Bear

I do feel for you Barry, it's awful to only have one or two vans to pick from, and you don't really have that, we still want a Bessie E745, but it can't be later than 2002, there is one on right now, but it's way down south http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192105718056?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT miles are bit high, but I reckon I could get the price down further, but I can almost guarantee it will be damp underneath, looked at 6 of that model now,, and all have been damp in the same places so it's a design fault, still have the Tiki so no funds anyway.

Just seen this, talk about cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-Fiat...474378?hash=item3ada4b598a:g:wWAAAOSw2gxYouzP


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## barryd

I didnt like it on sight. I had some help as "The Gnome" 747 turned up to hold the tape measure and offer words of wisdom. Apparently he spends most Saturdays there taking money off hapless newbies giving them advice and then telling them to buy a Burstner. 

The overhang when you add in the extra foot or so for the rack is 2.7 metres. Thats just bonkers. Ill do the sums but its just not right.

For £33k it just looked dated from the back to me.

Mrs D made a very valid comment today and touched on something I had not noticed. Everything she said from the drawers to the hab door and lockers was so much heavier and bulkier than our van. She even said she had a job with her little pixie elfin hands opening the bathroom door. our bathroom door is as flimsy and thin as anything and so is the hab door. Everything in this van was so much bulkier and heavier than ours. 

Maybe customers have demanded better quality fixtures and fittings but it has come at a price and that price is weight.

To be fair to Marquis and the sales guy Aiden who I have been talking to he knew is vans. I discussed a few with him and he was spot on with the details, years they were built etc. 

The quest goes on.


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## coppo

Heavier and bulkier are better surely, I,m glad your not designing a van for me Barry, paper doors and curtains it would be. Normally it's the other way around, the 90's models were quality, heavier fixtures and fittings and the more modern ones are thin, cheap, crap ones, look at any Hymer to establish that.


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## barryd

coppo said:


> Heavier and bulkier are better surely, I,m glad your not designing a van for me Barry, paper doors and curtains it would be. Normally it's the other way around, the 90's models were quality, heavier fixtures and fittings and the more modern ones are thin, cheap, crap ones, look at any Hymer to establish that.


I disagree totally Paul. Why does a hab door need to be so heavy, why even more so does a toilet door need to be so heavy? Even the slats on the bed were hugely bigger and heavier than ours. A great big hefty air con unit in the roof. Totally useless. and an entire unit for a microwave, pointless off EHU.

I think we have moved away from the ethos of camping and think its ok to lard up our vans with the same quality stuff we have at home. Our van is 3500KG which means I can wander around Austria without a GO box yet I have 700KG of payload and a scooter on the back which I can get off and on in under a minute.

Simplicity has gone out of the window. Most of the stuff on our van can be fixed with glue, self tappers and rubber tape. Anything fails on a new one and it looks expensive to me and not straight forward.


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## coppo

I fully agree with you about an aircon unit, what a waste of payload, also the microwave I agree.

Not the doors and other fixtures though, I like quality, whether in the house or motorhome, you can't have it all ways, if you want a 7+metre van then it will have to be much heavier than 3500kg to get a bit of quality, do you want a 2008 ish van held together by self tappers and tape?

There's ways to save weight and not to save weight.


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## barryd

Our current Kontiki is 7 metres and a bit if you add the rack. The essentials I agree are important that they are quality such as the cushions, work tops, oven, fridge etc and they are. Hab and internal doors as well as slats and wardrobes are not so vital. There is a set of drawers at the end of the Bessy rear lounge. Same set on the newer Kontikis and they weigh a ton and totally pointless. I would chuck them straight away and replace with cushions to make a full U shaped lounge. To me I would rather have less lard and more weight saving internally, a lighter and lengthier Alko chassis and none of this microwave and air con bollox. If it wasnt for the fact that I am struggling to get parts for my perfect current van I wouldnt bother to look for another one.

I tell you what, they say newbies get it wrong when they buy their first van, I got it spot on with ours.


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## cabby

What parts are you having trouble getting then Barry.If not available then replace with more modern equipment, you don't need gas lights ant more.>>


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## Harrers

Barry, why don't you get one of these then you do't have to worry about overhang etc?

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_caravaning/747663981.htm?ca=20_s


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## greygit

As an ex mechanic my first thought would be the engine and running gear, are there service records with the vehicle? When selling our vans over the years we have always supplied all service records/ details, if a seller says they haven’t got any, be careful.


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## rayrecrok

Barry.

Buy a bloody Hymer and get over it..:wink2:

ray.


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## JanHank

rayrecrok said:


> Barry.
> 
> Buy a bloody Hymer and get over it..:wink2:
> 
> ray.


Does he know how to pronounce it? :grin2:


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## barryd

Harrers said:


> Barry, why don't you get one of these then you do't have to worry about overhang etc?
> 
> https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_caravaning/747663981.htm?ca=20_s


No chance. Ive watched people fart about with trailers or those easy lifter things. What a carry on. It would be a massive backwards step for us. I can park our van in a layby or anywhere and have the scooter off in under a minute and just disappear for a mooch around. Reversing not a problem as well of course.

Phil the problem with parts is mainly the mechanical side of the van. I am not bothered about the hab area, that can always be easily fixed or upgraded and parts are freely available but generally now if a clutch cable or something like that goes its a right faff on finding the bits. I usually end up wasting a morning finding them myself for the garage to fit. Not the end of the world but a PIA. MOT before last I need two new sills for the front door area and had to have them made up. Again not a problem but more expensive and took a while.

However there are plenty of older vehicles on the road and classics etc so they must face the same issues.

The other concern is that one day in some far flung corner of Europe something catastrophic will break. We do have a tendency to cover some pretty demanding terrain so the van does get a right old hammering. Then again thats what they were built for.

Ill come up with something eventually but its not going to happen overnight. My latest idea was to go for a 2004-6 Kontiki 645 and spent a chunk of money upgrading it to obtain more payload over the rear end but I dont even know if thats possible. I guess I would need to see one in the flesh, look at the weight plate, wheels and tyres etc and then talk to SV Tech


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## suedew

Was that an airfreshener sitting on the cupboard, trying to mask dogs, cigarettes or damp perhaps?


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## raynipper

You can get Mercedes or Toyota parts all over Asia and Africa. Narrows it down a bit.

Ray.


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## Gretchibald

You all say air con is a waste of payload and I agree with you , we have it but have only used it three times in the last 6 years- but there's always that one time when you are glad of it. Have a laugh.


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## cabby

Air con,fine and fans even better, but did I notice that the leisure door was wide open as well.:surprise:


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## Gretchibald

Eh, no, door shut, that's the view out the side window.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Gretchibald said:


> Eh, no, door shut, that's the view out the side window.


I had to slow it right down to 0.25 speed, but it did look like a open hab door at full speed.

We're like bloody hawks on here, love the gentle accent, where is that from?


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## cabby

I stand corrected, should have know better.:wink2::wink2:


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## raynipper

Funny innit, we all flock for the sun and then complain about the heat??

Ray.


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## cabby

Well it is a bit like cooking, just how much heat does one need or want.:wink2:


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## JanHank

raynipper said:


> Funny innit, we all flock for the sun and then complain about the heat??
> 
> Ray.


Not all Ray, when it gets too hot we head for home or somewhere cooler.
Jan


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## barryd

We dont even have Air conditioning in the cab! The good thing about mainland Europe is that its not that difficult to take yourself off up to 6 or 7000ft above sea level when the mercury rises. At least its not for us as we are usually somewhere mountainous or not far away.

I remember one day on Lake Bourget which is the biggest natural lake in France and near Annecy, it was completely roasting. We were flying around the lake on the bike, stopping off every few miles to jump in the lake and get all wet then getting back on the bike soaked to cool down in the wind. 

I find I acclimatise after about three weeks anyway. ITs rarely that hot for too long in France, northern Italy etc and there is usually somewhere to cool off.

Air con in the van to me would put me off buying it as would a microwave.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I did agree about air con, but had it in our last two cars, helps no end with the flushes for Liz, this is the only van we've had it in the cab though, but it about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the hab, but had it in the last 3 vans, helps sell them though, I'd have another cab one, use it or not at least you have the option.


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## aldra

I absolutely love my aircon

We tend to run the eternal breeze fan in the garage, clipped onto the wire doors, with both doors open to keep the HFrom Hell cool

At the end of the day it's all about choice 

Sandra


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## barryd

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I did agree about air con, but had it in our last two cars, helps no end with the flushes for Liz, this is the only van we've had it in the cab though, but it about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the hab, but had it in the last 3 vans, helps sell them though, I'd have another cab one, use it or not at least you have the option.


Yes but I bet they weigh a fair bit. Same with roll out awnings, something else I could easily dump. Never used it once last year and probably twice in 2015 in the south of France. Awful things.


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## nicholsong

barryd said:


> Yes but I bet they weigh a fair bit. Same with roll out awnings, something else I could easily dump. Never used it once last year and probably twice in 2015 in the south of France. Awful things.


Basia sends her condolences that for two years you found so little sunshine, and that the times it rained it was not warm enough to sit outside.:wink2::laugh:


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## coppo

It's finding a used van without an awning though Barry, that's the problem, most of them have already been fitted, a total waste of money, they are like bits of paper flapping around in even the slightest breeze. I don't know how Fiamma have the cheek to market them.

I wouldn't have one for free, including free fitting, same for hab air con, took it off our last van, what a bleeding weight, fitted a nice midi Heki instead.

Same with reversing cameras, a lot have been DIY and what a bodge some make of them, £35 system bought off ebay and fitted by a joker.

Cab air con, cruise, Gaslow, extra battery(possibly solar if fitted well) are the accessories I like to look for.


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## aldra

But you are a youngster Coppo

A lovely youngster

Of course you don't need aircon

But me, well I need it

And I found those who don't have it are happy to share when temps rissandra


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## cabby

Yes have all that coppo.>>>


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## Pudsey_Bear

I took ours off the Laika and flogged it, bung the holes up and touched them in, once I saw how sloppy the fitting is I wonder how they manage to stay on, each point has two bolts through the body, then a tiny self tapping screw does all the work.


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## coppo

cabby said:


> Yes have all that coppo.>>>


Yes and if you'd had a double floor containing the tanks/pipework you would have sold you motorhome by now-TO ME:smile2:


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## aldra

Well I have an aircon

The fresh matic 

Has a window so no loss of light

Is a heater

An aircon

A fantastic vent Axia when cooking 

Removes the air in the motorhome rapidly with air replacement mode 

And me or I together with the hound from hell 

Relax in the heat of the day

And when we leave him in the van we ensure he is cool

Someone is willing to watch out for him 

And should the electric fail they have our number 

And why would they watch out for Him?

Because away from the van he is an 8.1/2 stone con man 

A gentle giant who loves people , he's off self imposed duty 

But around towns we need care , sudden noises or sudden movement puts him back into protection mode 

And nothing we can do will change that , he is what he is

A hound that loves his teddy bear, loves his family , protects his home and his motorhome 

And protects me whether I need it or not 

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear

coppo said:


> Same with reversing cameras, a lot have been DIY and what a bodge some make of them, £35 system bought off ebay and fitted by a joker.


Paid 32 for my last one it still working fine.:surprise:


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## aldra

We pay far more for ours

Reversing camera, camera that records our journeys ect

All work brilliantly 

Just us that doesn't these days 

Surrounded by technology we don't really understand. 

Sandra


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## Harrers

sorry haven't been on here for ages but think this is the thread Barry started whilst looking for a replacement for Hank. I don't know if you are still looking Barry but have seen the following on a Facebook Group:
*
Roller Team 5 Motorhome 53 Reg U shape Lounge 5 Berth*

I am not an expert at linking FB posts but this is the group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1645330245688647/

It's not far from you being at Stanhope in County Durham. Although on a 53 plate it has alledgedly only done 27k miles.

It was posted 12 hours ago and the only reponse so far has been a request for a telephone number. If you read the full post, the last info is a landline and a mobile for contact!


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