# Weedkiler



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

So many out there, what do you use on paths and patios that really works?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Diesel.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Can't use that.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It's cheaper than weed killer and last longer when you have 1,000 sq.m.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

And it leaves an oily residue and so you can't repoint the joints.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We use RoundUp New Formula, but none of the commercially available weedkillers are as strong, or as useful, as they were a few years ago. 

Blame the EU, they regulated the content of Glycophospate, so “ordinary” folk can only buy really weak stuff that is about as useful as putting fertiliser on the weeds. 

Farmers and Agricultural workers can buy concentrated stuff after completing a compulsory training course and wearing NBC suits effectively - which Ian sure they all do, all the time…….

That stuff works as we see it sprayed on fields, killing the weeds in days, while ours seem to die, but then revive 72 hours later.

Friends have suggested using salt (cheaply available in swimming pool shops, or vinegar, also very cheaply available. But I don’t fancy a drive smelling of fish and chips, so haven’t tried those two yet.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Liz did try the salt and vinegar a week or so ago Dave and it does kill them off but not the roots so they come back.

I was looking at his but not convinced.

https://www.doff.co.uk/product/f-fh-a00-dof/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Liz did try the salt and vinegar a week or so ago Dave and it does kill them off but not the roots so they come back.
> 
> I was looking at his but not convinced.
> 
> https://www.doff.co.uk/product/f-fh-a00-dof/


Our 1 litre bottle of RoundUp New Formula did 731 sq metres so appears stronger, but don't know how the price compares.

The key figure is the Glycophospate concentration afaik

RoundUp Superconcentrate seems to be £45.00 for 1 litre which makes up 100 litres of weed killer - this would seem to be a good deal for a reasonable product. That price is on Amazon U.K., but I can't link to it.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Dave is right. Many of the old weedkillers have been taken off the market due to wholesale misuse and overdosing by untrained farmers applying it in industrial quantities so that it ran off and became detectable in water courses. Weed killing contracts having been a big part of my business I am happy to explain full if anyone wants to know more.

What's left, as Dave says is glyphosate based weed killers, effectively roundup under various names. I have bought the proper stuff from Amazon.fr and from farmers suppliers in 5lt sizes. Anything smaller is likely to be diluted stuff intended for retail.

it's a bit pricey but it keeps for years and 5lt is enough to kill 10,000m2 of heavy weed growth.

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/roundup-pro-active-360-5l

If you do buy it Kev I will explain exactly how it must be used to get results. Loads of people will say it doesn't work, which it won't if it isn't applied at the right time, in the right way and onto weeds. It cannot be applied to surfaces to stop weeds appearing. All the affordable chemicals that did that have been banned mainly for the above reason.

It must be sprayed as a light-ish mist, it's crap from a watering can. I can explain why if you like.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

An extremely effective weedkiller is sodium chlorate, again banned by the EU for sale as a weedkiller but you can still readily buy it cheaply as a pure chemical and just mix it with water.

Take care though, trees and shrubs that send their roots under the drive could be killed (it is powerful and indescriminate). It can also be caustic on the skin. And DON'T buy in bulk at the same time as you buy your fertiliser or you could have a visit from the security forces!:smile2::wink2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I like the sound of the sodium Chlorate Dick and yours too Alan & Dave, What would be the mix ratio for the SC? I have roughly 12 feet x 50 feet to do, so an amount might be useful to know, maybe enough to do it twice.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Any good at sums Kev?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1nYniXp2F1ePEZXFUqp8ej


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sadly, Sodium chlorate and Potassium chlorate are no longer readily available since when mixed with a common domestic sweetening agent, made by Tate and Lyles they become a powerful explosive agents.

There were reports from the 60’s and 70’s of people using the chlorate frequently for weed control resulted in drive ways and paths which rapidly caught fire due to the properties of the compound and the ease with which it burst into flame. The chorale built up over time and in dry weather became reactive……. not good news….

Oh, how times change…


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Sadly, Sodium chlorate and Potassium chlorate are no longer readily available since when mixed with a common domestic sweetening agent, made by Tate and Lyles they become a powerful explosive agents.
> 
> There were reports from the 60's and 70's of people using the chlorate frequently for weed control resulted in drive ways and paths which rapidly caught fire due to the properties of the compound and the ease with which it burst into flame. The chorale built up over time and in dry weather became reactive……. not good news….
> 
> Oh, how times change…


https://sourcechemicals.com/product/sodium-chloride-99-9-bp-acs-ph-eur-fcc/pack/nacl-100g-foil


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Glandwr said:


> Any good at sums Kev?
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1nYniXp2F1ePEZXFUqp8ej


Terrible Dick.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

£3.45 for 100g…….

Hhmmm. We used to buy it in 5lb sacks…..

but don’t tell my Dad….😳. 💥💥💥💥💥💥


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

I use Verdone Extra Liquid Weedkiller and it works quite well - especially if you slightly 'up' the recommended amount they specify.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Verdone is mcpa based. It is a lawn weed killer intended to kill broad leaved weeds but not Kill grass. It's a very poor choice for general weed control.


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't use weedkillers so I have to look out at this from my kitchen window.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We got those on the lawn Paul but it's the 1,000 sq.m. of gravel thats the problem.

Ray.


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

raynipper said:


> We got those on the lawn Paul but it's the 1,000 sq.m. of gravel thats the problem.
> 
> Ray.


I do have 15 sq.m of gravel so small enough to pick weeds out by hand. A friend has suggested using salt (as suggested above) so I may try that at some time.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Salt and vinegar Paul lasts until the next wet dew.

Ray.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi all back from my holls and the weeds in the drive are a foot tall

Luckily i still have 5 l of the propper stuff that is now banned not sure how to spell it but the gly something stuff use it with a mask and lightly spray it onto the leaves and if i remember a little washing up liquid as it sticks to the leaves and stops it running off


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I use Resolva or Weedol on my gravel driveway etc - either does the job well. Home Bargains usually have the spray bottles at around 4 quid a touch.

I also use their equivalent product for the lawns as well and they also do a great job in keeping dandelions at bay...but don't get them mixed up though!


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Would like an explanation on using Roundup properly please? Chris uses it for the driveway (and would use it over the whole garden if allowed  ) So would be nice to know the proper method. We can get it from Mark the farmer or from some agricultural suppliers around here.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Only a few important points Pat. 

Firstly I'll explain about Roundup. It was the first Glyphosate based weedkiller. It came from Monsanto and was very expensive till the patents ran out. There are now Glyphosate weedkillers under a range of names, so don't be hung up on Roundup. It'll keep for years though best kept in a frost free place.

Glyphosate is absorbed only by green tissue. It is wasted sprayed on the ground or on the bark of a plant. It should be sprayed when there no rain forecast for six to eight hours, works best on a bright day. They say it is better not applied in very hot sun because it may evaporate before it's taken up by the weed. Even here in Spain I've never know that to happen. It shouldn't be sprayed when it's windy because it may drift and cause damage. Try not to use very high pressure or a very fine nozzle. Bigger droplets drift less. Drift will kill or severely damage garden plants and hedges.


Use the right dose rate. A bit extra or one for the pot just wastes chemical. 

Apply it with a sprayer. You are not trying to soak weeds in it. If you do the droplets will join together and run off.

If you are getting it on your self as you spray you need to practice your technique using just water or check that the conditions are right for spraying. Early morning is generally less windy. Controversial bit. It's recommended that you wear all the kit while handling it and applying it. Using it commercially that is obligatory. I don't in my own garden because seeing me dressed up like a spaceman would give neighbours who don't know the technicalities the idea that I must be using something absolutely lethal. It is known to be carcinogenic so do make sure you apply it properly and use the kit if you need to. Handle the undiluted stuff very carefully. 

Best keep pets off it till it dries, a short time in decent weather. Best they don't eat treated weeds. Ours like to eat grass but only when there's a decent tuft so I like to get the weedkiller on it while it's short and of no interest to them.

A bit about mixing, efficacy and so on.

Don't mix it with other weedkillers, they work at different speeds so the faster one will get into the plant first meaning that the other one was just wasted. Roundup is rather poor against nettles, even though the label says it will do the job. It will kill them with repeated applications. Round up is slow to work. Expect to wait up to three or four weeks to see results. It's pretty useless outside the growing season so get all you need to do done before winter comes.

As said earlier by another poster you can put a squirt of Fairy in as a sticker. Put it in last and give the sprayer a bit of a shake. I don't bother with it. You don't need Fairy if you apply it properly. Put the chemical in your sprayer before the water, that way it mixes better as the water goes in.


Help with dose rates.

The high rate for killing well established perennial weeds is 5 litres of Roundup per hectare. So that's 1lt per 2000m2. Misting lightly you could get around 500m2 per sprayer, I do. (Really you need to use a sprayer with a known quantity of water in it to check that and calculate your own calibration). If we assume you get 500m2 then you put 1/4 lt in each sprayer full. I'm doing that with a little 5lt battery powered sprayer which means that i'm going along at quite a rate to get that area covered. You can cut your dose rate and use more water if you aren't getting as much as 500m2 per sprayer. It would be the same putting 1/4lt into a 20lt sprayer and covering the same ground. The difference is that you'd use more water and could go along a bit more slowly. Some will say that the quantity of water is important to the working of the weedkiller. Perhaps it is but there's a great deal of latitude. There are even ways to put in on neat, in miserly amounts to get the coverage obviously. I can explain that if anyone is interested.

If just spot treating weeds here and there rather than applying weedkiller generally just give each one a shot and don't worry about how many M2 and so on. It 's not applicable.

They say rinse the sprayer after use. At home I just let whatever chemical I have left stay in the sprayer for next time.

I don't think any of the retail packs are undiluted.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks Alan, a very useful reminder for us all from a professional.

I wonder why RoundUp is virtually impossible to find around here ? Other weedkillers ARE available but they seem to have a much lower area for use- the RoundUp I got did 731 sq m for the 3/4 of litre in the bottle,the strongest other one only does 453 for the same 750 cm3.

Must keep looking I think….


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Personally I have always liked Glyphosate and bought it locally for about €12 to €14 a litre. But not now as it's been banned. My last 5L I bought from a Spanish company and even with postage was €60 delivered.

What do you suggest I do on gravel Alan? It's about 1200 sq.m. and I'm not bothered about wind or overspill. I do like to add some diesel into the mix as it keeps the animals from crapping for a while.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Glyphosphate containing weedkillers are supposedly banned in France EXCEPT for exceptional needs eg where stony ground prevents using mechanical weed control (my drive ?).

RoundUp is partially banned (typical French confusion);

https://latourdechollet.com/is-the-popular-weedkiller-roundup-banned-in-france/

But New Formula RoundUp contains no glyphosate ski have no clue how it works…l

The ban prevents the sale of eg RoundUp360 where the glyphosate is mixed with other compounds, but bottles labelled RoundUp Nouvelle Formule ARE available:

https://www.manomano.fr/p/roundup-d...i-mousses-et-mauvaises-herbes-aleavi-29091571

43.00€ for 400 ml so not cheap…..


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank you! Our neighbour sprayed our drive where it meets his fence while we were away. I am pretty sure that Chris told him to do it while we were away because he knew I would want to know all the details. I can live with a few weeds myself and prefer to just strim them down regularly.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We want the patio repointing and for that, the weeds need to GONE for good or they'll just push the pointing out.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Gravel is difficult now Ray. All I can suggest is spot treating any weeds with glyphosate as they come up. It's not fully banned as Dave says and you will be able to get it from other countries.

I have about half the area of gravel you have and I just spot treat it.

When I was last at home I needed to do some weed treatment where we have a big gravel area. I rang the company I bought my chemical off for years asking for a residual weed killer, one I could spray on the gravel so that weeds would be killed as they appeared. For many years all our weed control contracts with commercial clients used that approach along with an occasional spot treatment. Each one I named my old mate answered "banned". At that time he did mention one that he could still supply but it was extremely expensive, I can't remember the name.

I guess that was around 8 years ago so I don't know what's happened since. I do read up on it now and again and I look in the local agricultural co-op. I haven't seen anything with an active ingredient that could be residual for sale at all.

Some retail weedkillers still claim to have residual properties. Pathclear is one. However when I check the active ingredients none of those does actually do that job. What they do is done a bit differently to the way Glyphosate works but the end result is similar.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You can gone for good pretty much any weed with Glyphosate Kev.

What you can't do is stop more appearing permanently, but the there never was a way of doing that short perhaps of nuclear or some other really potent contamination. The best that could have been done was to keep most things down for a year or two.

We had several sites with interesting challenges. Horse Tail (Mares Tail) and Japanese Knotweed being the most difficult. The only way to eradicate either is to excavate all around them and down to a meter below any roots you find and then have the excavated material buried so deep and surrounded by barriers that nothing can come up.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hmm, as I am now an Ex Spurt, I declare them all to be virtual ripoffs the Sodium Chlorate sounds like the best we can actually get hold of.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Crossed in the either, we bought an electric wand last year (£20 B&Q) and it did kill some weeds, but it is a pain to use, basically a paint stripper on a stick, but although it says 5 seconds per weed, you need to fry the buggers for it to work, and they are all back now.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I bought a gas wand thing. It was supposed to be the dogs nuts.

Absolute crap, dead slow, didn't kill any persistent weed and of course you have to carry a gas cyl with you. You'll only do that with a full size one due to price.

I've read up on alternatives for weed killing and tried vinegar, salt and vinegar and so on. Vinegar works on soft you annual weeds, salt is a bad contaminant but a lot is needed. It might be years before anything other than nasty weeds would grow in salted ground.

Chopping small weeds off with a hoe works and is OK if done regularly.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Trouble with Glyphosate (Roundup) is that it can take a long time to see the effect in cool weather.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The pressure washer takes the tops off but not good on the mare tails, just make it worse.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Broccolis .... I hate the stuff so maybe weeds will also.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Broccolis .... I hate the stuff so maybe weeds will also.
> 
> Ray.


I know cats are frightened of cucumbers Ray, but why would broccoli get rid of weeds.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

What about fabric barriers? Are they any good?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yep. They work very well. They are quite ugly and a bugger to keep covered with gravel, bark etc. especially if you have a dog or two. Think of all those landscape public areas where all you see is the fabric because the bark has blown away or the gravel is gone. With maintenance and topping up it's pretty good, but weed killing is probably quicker and certainly cheaper.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Horrific to think of it now but in the 70s and 80s we had the answer locally. There are old disused lead and silver mines in mountains around here and the soil heaps were totally sterile. Not a weed or any plant would grow on them. I was on the committee that built a football pitch and bowling green in the village with voluntary labour and donated plant. We have an adjacent carpark and roadway made of that quarry waste compressed with a thin layer of gravel on top. It's remained relatively weed free after 40 odd years. Every time I pass I am thankful that there is no "runoff". It had been quite common to use the stuff as a hard-core base for decades locally!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

patp said:


> What about fabric barriers? Are they any good?


I think Liz would trip over them


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

On soil they should be buried, I think, or covered with a layer of gravel. We used to use old carpet around our shrubs in the old house and it seemed to do the trick. Of course you get the odd, shallow rooted, weed that can easily be hoe'd or pulled by hand but generally we found the barrier stuff and the carpet worked quite well.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I've never considered burying it.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Just enough soil or sand or bark chippings etc to hide it.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That's the usual thing Pat. Trouble is it gets moved around by wind, rain, people, animals etc. then chunks of fabric show and that is ugly.


Maybe I just see that so regularly because it's the kind of thing I notice.

I find it much easier to spray a few weeds that it is to rake and redistribute, or in the case of bark and soils top up whatever is used on top than it is to spray a few weeds. 


I have a big gravel area here. I spot treat weeds every three to four weeks except in winter. It takes me 10 to 15 minutes and costs maybe one Euro for chemical. It always looks weed free because I spray often enough to get them when they're small. That's the key. It's quick and easy and never gets unsightly. 

My first employer was in the same business I went into. He was always too busy to send people to his sites to spray the weeds in good time, as a result he has squads of students chipping weeds with spades and raking them up to bag them for dumping. I talked him into letting me go in good time to spray them before they became a problem. That was in the 1970s. I realised there was an opening for a specialist business offering weed control. That remained part of my business till I retired.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't know why but I always thought you were a builder Alan.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

It's just way his trousers hang Kev.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Landscaping is like general practice Kev. It ranges from gardening to minor civil engineering.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Good timing as I have been out trying to nuke weeds today. The worst ones are the ones on our gravel / stony drive and the ones that seem to sprout out of the front of the house that can grow through bricks and concrete.  I had a load of Patio Magic stuff left lying about that someone suggested was good for cleaning motorhomes (it certainly didnt work on mine) so I sprayed a load of concentrate of that on it. Will see what happens. Nothing I bet.

I also have an infestation of Dandelions on the grass in the garden so I called the local Garden centre / Nursery and explained both to them. They didnt have a bloody clue.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

A lawn weedkiller with 24,d or mcpa in it will kill the dandelions and not the grass. Make sure it's a lawn weedkiller: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weedol-Ver...qid=1652810462&sprefix=verdone,aps,393&sr=8-1


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> Good timing as I have been out trying to nuke weeds today. The worst ones are the ones on our gravel / stony drive and the ones that seem to sprout out of the front of the house that can grow through bricks and concrete.  I had a load of Patio Magic stuff left lying about that someone suggested was good for cleaning motorhomes (it certainly didnt work on mine) so I sprayed a load of concentrate of that on it. Will see what happens. Nothing I bet.
> 
> I also have an infestation of Dandelions on the grass in the garden so I called the local Garden centre / Nursery and explained both to them. They didnt have a bloody clue.


I have virtually solved my dandelion problem Baz. As soon as they start appearing I spend 20 mins every morning pulling the heads and buds off. After a week hardly one appears. It stops them seeding and multiplying. Plus it's good exercise.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

raynipper said:


> I have virtually solved my dandelion problem Baz. As soon as they start appearing I spend 20 mins every morning pulling the heads and buds off. After a week hardly one appears. It stops them seeding and multiplying. Plus it's good exercise.
> 
> Rat.


Want to watch that new signature Rat, it may stick.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I have virtually solved my dandelion problem Baz. As soon as they start appearing I spend 20 mins every morning pulling the heads and buds off. After a week hardly one appears. It stops them seeding and multiplying. Plus it's good exercise.
> 
> *Rat*.


What do I use the Rat for? Will a Siberian Hamster do? Got loads of them.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ooowwpppssss.

Fixed.

RaY.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Don't worry ̶R̶a̶t̶ Ray, people will forget in no time at all.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just call me Loretta. 




Lol.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

RatNipper! :lol:


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I thought the French ate dandelion as a salad Rat?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

erneboy said:


> A lawn weedkiller with 24,d or mcpa in it will kill the dandelions and not the grass. Make sure it's a lawn weedkiller: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weedol-Ver...qid=1652810462&sprefix=verdone,aps,393&sr=8-1


I can confirm that this stuff works well on dandelions. I haven't had to resort to the stuff you have to dilute down but use the ready made spray bottles instead (around 4 quid a go at Home Bargains etc). Some will need a second going at a couple of weeks later but I can confirm it doesn't kill the grass and they do not disappear.

When I started using this on my lawn we had a real goodly amount of dandelions but now probably less than 5-6 this year.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Want to watch that new signature Rat, it may stick.


Too late, might be the only Rat I like.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Don't worry ̶R̶a̶t̶ Ray, people will forget in no time at all.


Might have if you hadn't pointed it out Alan > >


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Just call me Loretta.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice one Ratty.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Glandwr said:


> I thought the French ate dandelion as a salad Rat?


I bet I know what's for tea tonight.

ratatouille


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Durrrrr ..................

Loretta.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GMJ said:


> I can confirm that this stuff works well on dandelions. I haven't had to resort to the stuff you have to dilute down but use the ready made spray bottles instead (around 4 quid a go at Home Bargains etc). Some will need a second going at a couple of weeks later but I can confirm it doesn't kill the grass and they do not disappear.
> 
> When I started using this on my lawn we had a real goodly amount of dandelions but now probably less than 5-6 this year.


No point around here the fields are full of them so we let them grow and enjoy the yellowyness.

This early, easily available source of food is a lifesaver for pollinators in spring. Bumblebees, solitary bees and honeybees all visit dandelions for food, along with hoverflies, beetles, and butterflies such as the peacock and holly blue


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

raynipper said:


> Durrrrr ..................
> 
> Loretta.


Louratta?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Bad rat.........................

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/disabled-elderly-woman-76-attacked-131425663.html

Ray.


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