# What foodstuffs CAN we take to the EU post Brexit?



## ChrisandJohn

I know we're not allowed to travel to the continent yet but have others thought about what we CAN take with us when we do. All the documents I've come across when googling are very generalised and are based on the assumption that you're travelling by plane, or perhaps in a car with a suitcase. Normally we go to France via the tunnel and of course head off in whatever direction we're going, without the immediate need to stop and shop. Post Brexit we can't take milk and other dairy products, meat, fish etc, (including the canned variety I suppose) and I've only just realised we can't take fruit and vegetables either, because they're plants. 

All this is infuriating of course because we might take several days to get ourselves to a crossing, so we'll want to leave home with the ability to feed ourselves, make a cup of tea, etc. and then I suppose we just have to dump anything left over by the time we reach Eurotunnel or a ferry port. Then we'll have to prioritise a stop off for shopping on the other side. I haven't even begun to get my head around the coming home part. No more stocking up at the fromagerie in Montreuil for us, I suppose.

So, what adjustments are others planning to make, and who has any ideas what we could carry with us that might make a meal or two? Lastly if anyone can point me to any websites that give all the information we need, in a motorhome relevant way, I'd be grateful, if not exactly happy. Grrr!


Chris


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## Penquin

Just to add another grrr....

We have now found that we cannot have tea in any form sent from the UK. Not normal bog standard PG Tips or Yorkshire orloose leaf tea that I love from Kenya.

So add tea to the list..... it is a plant product so cannot imported due to the risk of transferring diseases to EU plants..... really..... yet another example of the stupidity of leaving.

I have not found any definitive list, probably because it is still as flexible and depends on which way the wind is blowing, or the day of the week, or the price of eggs (can you take those ???????) or what the Officers think....


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## Glandwr

Having the luxury of nearly a ton and half of payload its the alcohol limit on the way back that will hit us most. Going out 6 months worth of tea bags (plant material?). Oops now 90 days worth:frown2:


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## Penquin

Glandwr said:


> Having the luxury of nearly a ton and half of payload its the alcohol limit on the way back that will hit us most. Going out 6 months worth of *tea bags (plant material?). *Oops now 90 days worth:frown2:


More space, not allowed tea as it is plant material. (See above)


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## ChrisandJohn

Penquin said:


> More space, not allowed tea as it is plant material. (See above)


It's worse than I thought. I was wondering about oat milk, or some such thing, in my tea but I thought the tea was a given!

Chris


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## raynipper

Gotta have my Tea Bags. Have to find some unsuspecting leave voter and ask them to bring a suitcase of Ty-Phoo over.

Ray.


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## ChrisandJohn

raynipper said:


> Gotta have my Tea Bags. Have to find some unsuspecting leave voter and ask them to bring a suitcase of Ty-Phoo over.
> 
> Ray.


It's the least they could do!

Do we still have any leavers on here that would do the deed?

Chris


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## DJMotorhomer

Only an observation but unless you are stopped at customs and they specifically look for tea, meat, fruit etc I reckon you will be fine.

When we were boarded last year looking for clandestines they only looked under one bench seat, the wardrobe and the shower room. Did not bother with the other bench seat, under the bed or the overhead locker. 

I for one will be taking, bacon, cheese, tea etc You would need to fill in a customs card on the Chunnel or ferry before you landed where it would ask you to declare any of the items, and I doubt they will be bothered.


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## Glandwr

DJMotorhomer said:


> Only an observation but unless you are stopped at customs and they specifically look for tea, meat, fruit etc I reckon you will be fine.
> 
> When we were boarded last year looking for clandestines they only looked under one bench seat, the wardrobe and the shower room. Did not bother with the other bench seat, under the bed or the overhead locker.
> 
> I for one will be taking, bacon, cheese, tea etc You would need to fill in a customs card on the Chunnel or ferry before you landed where it would ask you to declare any of the items, and I doubt they will be bothered.


What will you say if they specifically ask you "do you have any foodstuffs? And what are they sir?


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## DJMotorhomer

I will declare them but the chances of that are pretty slim I would imagine.

Quick story and I know this is 28 years ago but even so. I took my 2 children and a step daughter over to France for work, delivering some electronics. These were the days when your children appeared on your passport.

As I approached passport control I realised my step daughter was not on my passport as she was not my natural child, but we were not stopped. Then I realised if we were stopped coming back she would not be allowed back in the country !!
Needless to say she was not stopped on the return leg either.

I realise things are quite a lot tighter now but that experience dented my confidence in customs checks.


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## ChrisandJohn

Apart from being a natural law-abider, and a rubbish liar, I could bear the thought of all that wasted food if it had to be dumped.

Chris


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## Penquin

Hopefully we will learn more once people CAN AND DO travel, at present we can only go on what we find out - the tea ban came after we tried buying loose Kenyanbtea from a variety of UK based suppliers, only to be told by each and every one that it is not permitted as it is a plant product.

If this had been made clear before June 2016 it would have been treated as an asinine joke and those saying it would have been ridiculed by those idiots determined to force the thing through. I wonder if Peter would like to try and defend this position or is it yet another "thing that hasn't happened" , only it has and IS a consequence of leaving.


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## raynipper

You can't 'defend' being deprived of Tea Dave. Sadly we are now down to our last 2,600 bags. Must find new stocks.

Ray.


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## erneboy

Tea ban here too. Amazon won't supply at all, we used to but large quantities at a time. 

The local supermarket still has tea bags but I wonder if that will continue. We will always get Lipton I should think, but I'm not overly keen on it.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I thought you could take whatever you want as you are not importing but consuming.


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## raynipper

Yes Kev, it used to be up to £137 personal goods. But might not relate to certain items.

Ray.


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## barryd

DJMotorhomer said:


> Only an observation but unless you are stopped at customs and they specifically look for tea, meat, fruit etc I reckon you will be fine.
> 
> When we were boarded last year looking for clandestines they only looked under one bench seat, the wardrobe and the shower room. Did not bother with the other bench seat, under the bed or the overhead locker.
> 
> I for one will be taking, bacon, cheese, tea etc You would need to fill in a customs card on the Chunnel or ferry before you landed where it would ask you to declare any of the items, and I doubt they will be bothered.


Last year we were still effectively in the EU so checks would have been very relaxed.

Basically what you are advocating though now is smuggling and breaking the law. I dare say you may well get away with it but I would imagine checks may well be stepped up and regardless of that you will have made a declaration that you were not carrying any illegal items. If caught, at best the whole lot will be confiscated and you may well face prosecution.

*"When arriving in the EU you may have to undergo official controls by the authorities. If you are carrying any meat or dairy products, which you have not declared they will be confiscated and destroyed, you may also be fined or face criminal prosecution." *

https://tinyurl.com/t8zcw98k


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## barryd

Penquin said:


> Just to add another grrr....
> 
> We have now found that we cannot have tea in any form sent from the UK. Not normal bog standard PG Tips or Yorkshire orloose leaf tea that I love from Kenya.
> 
> So add tea to the list..... it is a plant product so cannot imported due to the risk of transferring diseases to EU plants..... really..... yet another example of the stupidity of leaving.
> 
> I have not found any definitive list, probably because it is still as flexible and depends on which way the wind is blowing, or the day of the week, or the price of eggs (can you take those ???????) or what the Officers think....


Do you think this will include Lift Lemon Tea Dave? Its in a powdered form. Michelle takes literally maybe 100 plastic jars of the stuff as its all she drinks and you cannot get it in mainland Europe. She will be most upset if she cant take it.


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## ChrisandJohn

barryd said:


> Do you think this will include Lift Lemon Tea Dave? Its in a powdered form. Michelle takes literally maybe 100 plastic jars of the stuff as its all she drinks and you cannot get it in mainland Europe. She will be most upset if she cant take it.


I got the impression that anything that has been processed almost out of existence is probably OK. I think an example given was the butter in a biscuit, or something like that. Whether Michelle could convince them that all 100 jars are for her consumption might be another matter.

Chris


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## Pudsey_Bear

You could cut that in half by saying you drink it too


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## dghr272

raynipper said:


> You can't 'defend' being deprived of Tea Dave. Sadly we are now down to our last 2,600 bags. Must find new stocks.
> 
> Ray.


Thought for today.............a brand new toilet cassette could hold quite a number of tea bags, if the exterior was disguised as 'well used' I doubt many customs folk would delve too deep. A spare cassette can be handy too.

All you need now Ray is a tea mule, perhaps Jean or I could fill that roll when we're allowed to travel then you'd be literally flushed with tea bags ??

No thanks required.

Terry


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## raynipper

I will await the delivery Terry. 

Ray.


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## jiwawa

raynipper said:


> You can't 'defend' being deprived of Tea Dave. Sadly we are now down to our last 2,600 bags. Must find new stocks.
> 
> Ray.


That stock would last me about 7yrs Ray!

Just a thought - if you normally add a teabag to the mug, use a teapot instead. I'd get probably 5 or 6 cups out of my teapot if I filled it. As it is, I get 3.5 cups every time. In effect, I quadruple the length of time my teabags will last me!


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## nicholsong

So if we travel from the Continent to UK for the MOT with stuff bought here and then want to bring it back to the Continent will it be confiscated - if we have the receipts?

And if something is bought in UK but is clearly marked as 'Product of Spain'?


What about wine - grapes are products of plants?


Can we put it all into 'bond' at Dunkirk to be collected when we arrive back there?



Just asking.


Geoff


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## raynipper

I'm sure we could economise on bags lots of ways Jean. Especially as I like very strong tasting tea and wring my bag out and Prue likes here like a cup of warm milk. It would be great if we could use my first bag in her cup as it still has enough flavour to work. But no for some inexplicable reason she has to have a new bag and whip it out as soon as it has water on it.

Actually we do get through six bags a day without visitors. So yes about 2 and a half years worth. But I like spares as you know.

Ray.


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## raynipper

nicholsong said:


> So if we travel from the Continent to UK for the MOT with stuff bought here and then want to bring it back to the Continent will it be confiscated - if we have the receipts?
> 
> And if something is bought in UK but is clearly marked as 'Product of Spain'?
> What about wine - grapes are products of plants? Just asking. Geoff


No Geoff, not if you do have receipts or get it all itemised on entry.

Ray.


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## nicholsong

raynipper said:


> No Geoff, not if you do have receipts or get it all itemised on entry.
> 
> Ray.


 I was asking about re-entry to EU, with products bought in EU.

But entering into UK what about jar of Bovril which was bought in UK?

It all gets a bit silly.

Even going into US years ago I declared an apple from home I had not eaten on the flight - lots of scratching of heads and then a nod of the head towards the door which said 'Feck off out of here with your apple'

Geoff


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## ChrisandJohn

And when it comes to condiments and store cupboard items I suppose it's OK to take back some Guérande salt back to France, but I'll have to leave the Herbes de Provence at home. 🙄

Chris


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## raynipper

nicholsong said:


> I was asking about re-entry to EU, with products bought in EU.
> But entering into UK what about jar of Bovril which was bought in UK? It all gets a bit silly.
> Even going into US years ago I declared an apple from home I had not eaten on the flight - lots of scratching of heads and then a nod of the head towards the door which said 'Feck off out of here with your apple' Geoff


My wife was pulled out of the line and treated as a criminal when landing at LA with a Banana. I sniffer dog walked along the queue of passengers and sat beside my wife to indicate to the 'thug' she had food.

Ray.


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## nicholsong

I know we are having a bit of a joke about this, but can someone please give links to 



A The rules of products that are prohibited to be imported to UK.


B Likewise into EU


Actualy there are similar, but not identical, regulation across borders within EU, but no controls.


Geoff


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## Glandwr

nicholsong said:


> I know we are having a bit of a joke about this, but can someone please give links to
> 
> A The rules of products that are prohibited to be imported to UK.
> 
> B Likewise into EU
> 
> Actualy there are similar, but not identical, regulation across borders within EU, but no controls.
> 
> Geoff


And no controls into the UK until 2022 Geoff so HMG now says.


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## ChrisandJohn

Geoff

I started this thread because I couldn't find any sort of comprehensive information that would be useful for motorhomers and caravanners, who would normally expect to be carrying around the means to make meals and drinks. Official information appears to be geared to food importers/exporters or those who might have a sandwich or a lump of cheese in their pocket. I think it's time to investigate what the CMC & CCC can do to interpret the rules the rules for us. 

I also hoped that others might suggest what foodstuffs they had considered taking to the EU from the UK for their next trip - but maybe that's still too far ahead. Most respondents on this thread don't even live in the UK, and much as I can understand the concern about tea bags (which I share), I'll need a bit more sustenance than that.


Chris


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## Pudsey_Bear

raynipper said:


> My wife was pulled out of the line and treated as a criminal when landing at LA with a Banana. I sniffer dog walked along the queue of passengers and sat beside my wife to indicate to the 'thug' she had food.
> 
> Ray.


Liz did a cruise last year and the boat landed somewhere around Florida, she went ashore and was strip-searched, she was mightily pissed off, glad I wasn't there.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I reckon if a thread gets to 4 pages with no real answer for you it's because the answer isn't out there yet, at least not in any understandable way


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## nicholsong

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I reckon if a thread gets to 4 pages with no real answer for you it's because the answer isn't out there yet, at least not in any understandable way


Kev

Here is the UK version

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/personal-food-plant-and-animal-product-imports

Load of fecking bollax IMO, especially since no firm dates for implememtation.

I will try to add EU version [EDIT Here now

https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/animalproducts/personal_imports_en

In general it seems that less than 2kg of most things is allowed, so it is all a non-subject.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear

I don't think I'm alone in feeling that we are circling the drain with the government we are stuck with.


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## ChrisandJohn

nicholsong said:


> Kev
> 
> Here is the UK version
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/personal-food-plant-and-animal-product-imports
> 
> Load of fecking bollax IMO, especially since no firm dates for implememtation.
> 
> I will try to add EU version [EDIT Here now
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/animalproducts/personal_imports_en
> 
> In general it seems that less than 2kg of most things is allowed, so it is all a non-subject.
> 
> Geoff


I can only see 2kg mentioned in relation to bringing various animal products into the UK.

It'll be great if I can bring back the contents of our fridge and food cupboard at the end of a trip, but at the moment I'm wondering what we can take into the EU. It looks like I could take in up to 10 kg of meat, milk or their products if I'm coming from the Faeroe Islands or Greenland, but I'll be travelling from Yorkshire. So it is still a subject for me.

Chris


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## erneboy

ChrisandJohn said:


> Geoff
> 
> I started this thread because I couldn't find any sort of comprehensive information that would be useful for motorhomers and caravanners, who would normally expect to be carrying around the means to make meals and drinks. Official information appears to be geared to food importers/exporters or those who might have a sandwich or a lump of cheese in their pocket. I think it's time to investigate what the CMC & CCC can do to interpret the rules the rules for us.
> 
> I also hoped that others might suggest what foodstuffs they had considered taking to the EU from the UK for their next trip - but maybe that's still too far ahead. Most respondents on this thread don't even live in the UK, and much as I can understand the concern about tea bags (which I share), I'll need a bit more sustenance than that.
> 
> Chris


Perhaps people who don't even live in the UK are those who have most recent experience of what can be exported from the UK to the EU because they normally used to have favourites and staples exported to them and therefore know more about what gets through?


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## Penquin

Neither of those links really gives much guidance as to what will be accepted if one arrives at the French border (as most likely landing point) and then gets stopped and searched.

We currently have no idea whether the border authorities will be boosted in numbers, or whether long delays for inspection will develop.

I have not heard that the French intend to boost staff in order to check vehicles - we have all heard that ONE lorry driver hit the headlines when he arrived at a border and was not permitted to take his ham sandwich across the border, but I have not heard of any repetition of similar searches or actions.

Until travel really gets underway again after CoVid, it is impossible to tell what WILL happen. People living in Europe and trying to import from the Zuk are becoming aware of the difficulties of buying virtually anything from the UK - that cannot be to the benefit of the UK economy or businesses.

Many UK companies have linked up with EU based ones, or have formed an EU based company to reduce such hassles, but it does not look that likely things will improve greatly.

Probably, any traveller over the next few weeks and months, once it is permitted, would be well advised to only take what is needed for the first 24 hours and aim to stock up in the EU, although it looks like some products will simply not be available for the foreseeable future.


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## ChrisandJohn

erneboy said:


> Perhaps people who don't even live in the UK are those who have most recent experience of what can be exported from the UK to the EU because they normally used to have favourites and staples exported to them and therefore know more about what gets through?


Absolutely, and I thought that discussion was useful. I was just hoping that some UK based members who normally would travel to EU countries might also have had some thoughts on about how they might adapt to the new circumstances.

Chris


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## Pudsey_Bear

I reckon if the French do what they like to do with authority then it'll be fine coz they can't be arsed with laws which make them work harder, and will just give you a cursory look at the most unless you act suspicious.

As a non traveler overseas, I don't understand the customs thing, it seems if you do not declare something which is on some list, and they search you and you have some they can take it off you and fine you or worse, but what happens if you have declared said gubbins?


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## erneboy

Declare it and they'll take it, saying it's for destruction.

My advice is destroy it yourself to prevent the buggers nicking it. Many years ago I jumped up and down on 400 cigarettes in an airport. I'd misunderstood the limits and brought too many in error. I declared them and they said they'd take them. I said OK and trampled them thoroughly before putting them in the box they'd indicated. You should have seen the look on the faces of the two customs men. I reckon they'd been thinking it was going to be a carton each.


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## barryd

This link explains it more clearly. The 2kg limit does not apply to meat or dairy which are banned completely.

Scroll down to "Rules when travelling from a non-EU country"

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#


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## Pudsey_Bear

So we have to buy French milk, not cuppa until you hit the shops, memsahib will not be happy at that, and where do you dispose of the nasty unhealthy disease-ridden good old British milk?


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## raynipper

Whats wrong with French fresh semi cream milk then Kev? Same as UK milk.

Ray.


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## Penquin

Thanks Barry, that is much clearer, but logic would say that tea would be allowed under that table as "other" at the bottom of the page, unless they are treating it as a plant product (which I can understand) but if so, most things like pastries, cakes etc., would be banned as they are also products derived from plants.....

I wonder why there has been such an emphasis by British based companies on "no tea" - it seems to be reflected in every company, which would tend to suggest a justified reason.

PS
Before January 1st, much of the milk sold in the U.K. Came from the EU and France in particular.....


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## Pudsey_Bear

raynipper said:


> Whats wrong with French fresh semi cream milk then Kev? Same as UK milk.
> 
> Ray.


I give up again ask me another.


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## H1-GBV

nicholsong said:


> Kev
> 
> In general it seems that less than 2kg of most things is allowed, so it is all a non-subject.
> 
> Geoff


Your impression is different from mine:

_"Travellers are not allowed to bring in *meat, milk or their products*, unless they are coming with less than 10 kilograms of these products from the Faeroe Islands or Greenland"_

(from your link)

So IMO a lettuce & tomato sandwich would be fine, so long as there wasn't any butter on the bread. :wink2:

NO ham, NO bacon, NO pre-prepared lasagne, NO chicken Korma, NO corned beef, NO FrayBentos meat pies, NO semi-skimmed milk (not even UHT), NO cheddar cheese, etc.

Gordon

SORRY, but it's another list of what you are NOT allowed. :frown2:


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## raynipper

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I give up again ask me another.


What else do you feel you can't get over here then Kev?

Ray.


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## Penquin

H1-GBV said:


> Your impression is different from mine:
> 
> _"Travellers are not allowed to bring in *meat, milk or their products*, unless they are coming with less than 10 kilograms of these products from the Faeroe Islands or Greenland"_
> 
> (from your link)
> 
> So IMO a lettuce & tomato sandwich would be fine, so long as there wasn't any butter on the bread. :wink2:
> 
> NO ham, NO bacon, NO pre-prepared lasagne, NO chicken Korma, NO corned beef, NO FrayBentos meat pies, NO semi-skimmed milk (not even UHT), NO cheddar cheese, etc.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> SORRY, but it's another list of what you are NOT allowed. :frown2:


I agree it's another list of what's not allowed, that is the way such publications are made;

"You are NOT allowed to drive at more than 30 mph in a built up area."

"Sales of firearms are NOT permitted in the U.K."

"Sexual acts with someone under the age of 16 are NOT permitted"

Just three examples of how Laws are written (and paraphrased).

You will never find the converse;

"You are allowed to drive at less than 30 mph in built up areas"

It is just simply not how these things are presented, so I very much doubt that we will EVER see a list of what we ARE permitted to carry cross those 22 miles...... now that the UK is outside the EU where ALL such movements ARE legal.


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## ChrisandJohn

Apart from tea bags (which generally in France are rubbish) you can nowadays get decent milk and most other things I would want to eat. Indeed much of it is better. What I don't want to do is have to buy everything from scratch the minute we get there. I hate wasting food so normally I would take everything from the fridge that we'd hadn't been able to use before leaving, plus some store cupboard stuff, rice, pasta, lentils etc. Some canned items: tomatoes, beans, chickpeas, tuna, sardines, and usually a tin of corned beef, though that rarely gets eaten. Often I will have prepared a couple of frozen meals in advance but that won't be happening since we swapped the van for a tiny one with a tiny fridge. We generally go in September and also take some garden produce with us, particularly runner beans. On top of all that there are items like oil, vinegar, mustard, and any other condiments, herbs and spices we might want for cooking. 

Many of the things I mentioned contain meat, dairy and plant products in some form. I would dearly love to know which of them we are allowed to take. I can understand that I can't take a fresh tomato, but what about a can? And if that's OK, what about tinned fish or meat. It's that level of information that I think needs spelling out more clearly.

'Leave means.......' what exactly?


Chris

PS
And Kev, the issue isn't about paying duty, it's to do with EU regs on food and plant safety which we've now opted out of. The EU, quite rightly, are considering the possibility that we might be adopting lower standards.


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## H1-GBV

Today there is a lot of fuss because when Boris said "you can get married ...." he didn't say "but not in a wedding venue" [which apparently is classed as "hospitality" so is closed but it's not classed as "hospitality" so far as grants etc are concerned]. Spelling out what is and is not allowed is too difficult, probably, because it requires knowledge and forethought.

The vast majority of Brits going to the Continent will not be taking a fridge nor a store cupboard with them, so spelling out what can or cannot be carried therein will be very low on the Government's list of priorities.
You have two choices: 
follow the letter of the EU law and hope that things improve before your next trip
take whatever you think you can get away with and accept that it may be confiscated and you may be fined.

"Are you feeling lucky, punk?" :wink2:

IF I was a Dutch/French/Spanish (other crossings are available) Customs Officer wanting to prove to my superiors what a competent person I was, would I stop a saloon car with a family of 4 plus their suitcases or a motorhome with its fridge etc?

"Are you feeling lucky, punk?" :frown2:

Gordon


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## bognormike

well, when i go over. I'll take my usual stuff from the home fridge with me to the tunnel, possibly with some fish for first meal. Then I'll park up in the waiting area and move any meat & dairy, including cheeses, (which may include some leftover french cheese, obviously imported in to uk!) to coolbags in a couple of nice hidden areas in my van. I may leave about 200ml of milk in the fridge just in case they decide to inspect things, which I can then offer to them for disposal. There is the extremely unlikely event of them deciding to get the sniffer dogs out, but I'll take that risk on the chin. Bloody nonsense.

I remember driving from Nevada to California a few years back, and there were signs at the border saying no food products were allowed to be taken into California. No armed border police to be seen.. But flying in to LA once I had to dispose of an apple which I'd carried on to the plane. Shocking!


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## bognormike

H1-GBV said:


> Today there is a lot of fuss because when Boris said "you can get married ...." he didn't say "but not in a wedding venue" [which apparently is classed as "hospitality" so is closed but it's not classed as "hospitality" so far as grants etc are concerned]. Spelling out what is and is not allowed is too difficult, probably, because it requires knowledge and forethought.
> 
> Gordon


but everybody knows that you can't rely on what Johnson says because he's a lying bastard


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## erneboy

A question about hiding foodstuffs away Mike.

If they asked if you had any meat or dairy products would you say you didn't, even though you knew that you did?

What would happen if you said you didn't and then they looked around and found something obviously concealed? 

I really recommend that you don't do that. Leave them in the fridge and take the chance. If you get caught you can pretend ignorance and will probably get away with just dumping the stuff. 

My suspicion is that there will be many attempts to conceal stuff and that they may get fed up with it and be a bit harsh when they catch people. When it's concealed there is obvious dishonest intent.


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## Pudsey_Bear

raynipper said:


> What else do you feel you can't get over here then Kev?
> 
> Ray.


Dunno, not been for decades, However, apart from me mint teabags and Infiniti coffee, I don't see the point in taking more than enough for a couple of basic meals, we would be of the mind that we're on holiday in another country with lots of different foods available, we'd be shopping in small towns and villages, much like we do in Scotland we buy and eat the local produce where possible, if you're going to take all your food from home, you may as well stay home and leave room for others.


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## raynipper

I was about to agree with you there Kev until you suggested staying at home. Tea bags are my only weakness. Everything else I think you can get here French version. Maybe poppadum's and mince pies. 

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear

No popodoms, surely there are curry shops over there? mince pies are simple enough to make your own, get your lass fired into kitchen until she makes you some lad.


What's the issue with T bags don't these bloody foreigners drink tea then.


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## Penquin

French curry is a yellow liquid totally without any form of flavour......

The French don't seem to do spiced foods from our experience, no decent chilli, it is extremely difficult to even find a chilli pepper (Grande Frais sometimes has them).

Curry shops are a total unknown, as are fish and chip shops. The French do Thai curries - France has a history in IndoChina (think Vietnam before that Americans), but had absolutely nothing to do with India - that was British 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 through and through (think Clive....).

So, finding Poppadums is a non-starter - I bought 24 packs of 20 per pack from an Indian supermarket last year, near Southampton for 90p per pack...... sadly, that will not be possible in the future I suspect, as flour is a plant PRODUCT.

Tea is also a plant product, so importing is not permissible (or possible as we have found), the yellow Lipton tea bags are probably not plant products as they do not seem to contain ANY tea...... The French drink coffee, not imported via the UK.

To us, the rules and regulations seem crazy, but we have lived with total freedom since the 1970's and not many restrictions before then. We have not gone back to life before the EU but to a totally new relationship that is probably more akin to the centuries when England fought the French etc..

We have moved into a totally new relationship with no guarantee of ANY trade as the "agreements" reached are so vague with vast areas not even considered prior to January 1st., compounded by CoVid.......


----------



## erneboy

Penquin said:


> French curry is a yellow liquid totally without any form of flavour......
> 
> The French don't seem to do spiced foods from our experience, no decent chilli, it is extremely difficult to even find a chilli pepper (Grande Frais sometimes has them).
> .......


The Spanish are the same. The British tastes were imported from India along with much of our vocabulary, the days of the Raj.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

So it's a total cluster**** then.


I must apologise the whole of the UK as it is partly my fault


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I don't think I'll bother going them, mind you 99% of the Indian curry house here aren't.


----------



## barryd

Out of all the things that are bad about Brexit this one is low down my list of concerns. I Cant wait to get into a decent French supermarket or French market and start buying up all the stuff I love. The main concern was Michelles Lemon Tea but it sounds like that might be ok. The rest of it I am happy to leave at home. I Cant honestly think of one single UK Food thing I would be bothered about bringing to France. Maybe the odd tin of Tuna but only because the ones we have had in France were crap.


----------



## Penquin

Sorry, if her Lemon Tea was sold under a British name, it is not available. We have tried to get fruit teas for MrsW but same result - zero available.

The situation is farcical as three months ago all were considered safe but due to the non-treaty British exports are now blocked. Imagine trying to produce a phytosanitary certificate for each box of teabags, traced back to the plants where it grew and guaranteeing that the plants and soil where it was grown do not have a banned list of disease causing organisms. Dream on comes to mind.

Hence why so many seed producers and sellers are seriously worried about their future- have a look at the back of most seed packs to see where they originated, then think the phytosanitary certificate has to be put on each packet, not each box, but each packet.

We have today seen ONE rose bush from the UK with a ps certificate, out of perhaps 150, all the rest came from Holland. I wonder how long British Roses will be available ? Nurseries like David Austin must be seriously worried.

Yes, I know it's {offtopic} for taking food to Europe but as yet, we have no clue WHAT, if anything, we can take across the Channel.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

What about exporting to a none EU country then re-exporting into an EU country, would that work?


----------



## Penquin

We are trying to import from a non-EU country - that's what BRITAIN NOW IS - it is a third (world) country.....

Exactly the same would apply is we imported from elsewhere like Australia, Israel, Turkey, Morocco etc., the only dodge possible would be via a Norther Ireland company who can export to the EU without problems...

But, the NI companies can't get the stock from the rest of the UK due to the border down the Irish Sea.


----------



## erneboy

It's not a matter of what British products were considered safe Dave.

It's a matter of applying all the rules that third countries have to adhere to to every third country.

If there were not blanket policies on animal products and plant products there would have to be individual deals but there can't be because what one third country gets others are entitled to. The answer is a comprehensive trade deal, which was on offer as membership of the CU and single market. The UK didn't want that so it must abide by the rules applied to third countries and they are designed to deal with the worst of what might come from any third country.

That's was the UK's choice. If it is farcical the fault lies with the UK regime.


----------



## Mrplodd

We can all pontificate and beat our gums over this issue, but no one will know how the (probably French) border Officers will react. Personally I think it highly unlikely that they will have the officers (or the time) to stop and quiz and/or search every vehicle coming off a full (300+ vehicle) ferry. 

My guess (and that’s all it is) is that this is all a storm in a teacup and the “authorities” won’t give a monkeys about holidaymakers bringing some foodstuffs for personal consumption into Europe. 

Once everything opens up we will have a much better idea, until then it’s pure speculation.


----------



## Penquin

erneboy said:


> It's not a matter of what British products were considered safe Dave.
> 
> It's a matter of applying all the rules that third countries have to adhere to to every third country.
> 
> If there were not blanket policies on animal products and plant products there would have to be individual deals but there can't be because what one third country gets others are entitled to. The answer is a comprehensive trade deal, which was on offer as membership of the CU and single market. The UK didn't want that so it must abide by the rules applied to third countries and they are designed to deal with the worst of what might come from any third country.
> 
> That's was the UK's choice. If it is farcical the fault lies with the UK regime.


Agree totally, "cutting off one's nose to spite your face" seems appropriate.

Johnson's shower could not cope with a two door lavatory" - they'd try to go down the pan, dragging the refit of the UK with them, safe in the knowledge that "where there's sh1t there's money £££££££" for them.....


----------



## erneboy

Mrplodd said:


> We can all pontificate and beat our gums over this issue, but no one will know how the (probably French) border Officers will react. Personally I think it highly unlikely that they will have the officers (or the time) to stop and quiz and/or search every vehicle coming off a full (300+ vehicle) ferry.
> 
> My guess (and that's all it is) is that this is all a storm in a teacup and the "authorities" won't give a monkeys about holidaymakers bringing some foodstuffs for personal consumption into Europe.
> 
> Once everything opens up we will have a much better idea, until then it's pure speculation.


Do you consider explaining the rules to be pontificating?


----------



## H1-GBV

Mrplodd said:


> We can all pontificate and beat our gums over this issue, but no one will know how the (probably French) border Officers will react. Personally I think it highly unlikely that they will have the officers (or the time) to stop and quiz and/or search every vehicle coming off a full (300+ vehicle) ferry.
> 
> My guess (and that's all it is) is that this is all a storm in a teacup and the "authorities" won't give a monkeys about holidaymakers bringing some foodstuffs for personal consumption into Europe.
> 
> Once everything opens up we will have a much better idea, until then it's pure speculation.


Is Andy saying that it's OK to break the law if the chances of getting caught are small? :wink2:

Gordon


----------



## baldlygo

I enjoy too many types of food so have no problems finding interesting things to try here in France. I sort of miss lardy cake and Eccles cakes but both have in the past been brought over by friends. Another favourite is haggis but they are available from "ex-pat" butchers nearby.
There is another item that I have not found a French equivalent and that is HP sauce. One bottle probably lasts me 3 years so I don't mind paying over the UK price. I need a new bottle now and they seem to have disappeared from the shelves since Christmas. I believe that HP sauce is made in Holland so why would there be a shortage in France? Or is it just a shortage in our local supermarket?


----------



## Penquin

baldlygo said:


> I enjoy too many types of food so have no problems finding interesting things to try here in France. I sort of miss lardy cake and Eccles cakes but both have in the past been brought over by friends. Another favourite is haggis but they are available from "ex-pat" butchers nearby.
> There is another item that I have not found a French equivalent and that is HP sauce. One bottle probably lasts me 3 years so I don't mind paying over the UK price. I need a new bottle now and they seem to have disappeared from the shelves since Christmas. I believe that HP sauce is made in Holland so why would there be a shortage in France? Or is it just a shortage in our local supermarket?


Any use ?

https://www.amazon.fr/hp-sauce/s?k=hp+sauce


----------



## Glandwr

Penquin said:


> French curry is a yellow liquid totally without any form of flavour......
> 
> *The French don't seem to do spiced foods from our experience, no decent chilli, it is extremely difficult to even find a chilli pepper* (Grande Frais sometimes has them).
> 
> Curry shops are a total unknown, as are fish and chip shops. The French do Thai curries - France has a history in IndoChina (think Vietnam before that Americans), but had absolutely nothing to do with India - that was British 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 through and through (think Clive....).
> 
> So, finding Poppadums is a non-starter - I bought 24 packs of 20 per pack from an Indian supermarket last year, near Southampton for 90p per pack...... sadly, that will not be possible in the future I suspect, as flour is a plant PRODUCT.
> 
> Tea is also a plant product, so importing is not permissible (or possible as we have found), the yellow Lipton tea bags are probably not plant products as they do not seem to contain ANY tea...... The French drink coffee, not imported via the UK.
> 
> To us, the rules and regulations seem crazy, but we have lived with total freedom since the 1970's and not many restrictions before then. We have not gone back to life before the EU but to a totally new relationship that is probably more akin to the centuries when England fought the French etc..
> 
> We have moved into a totally new relationship with no guarantee of ANY trade as the "agreements" reached are so vague with vast areas not even considered prior to January 1st., compounded by CoVid.......


I was very surprised to find a town absolutely FULL of all types of peppers including every known chilli Dave. Bayonne in the SW is surely the chilli capital of Europe! They even have a Musee of peppers!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I think Andy was saying no point in discussing it to any great length as we don't know the outcome of ongoing discussions.


----------



## Penquin

As it is Red 👃 day, the latest release of what you can take is very simple;

The permitted substance, the ONLY permitted substance is *dehydrated water*. This product can be bought from a "friend" of the Business Minister The Right (dis) Hon Kawasaki Kong and the company given the Contract by his Ministry of which the Chairperson is is wife....... 🤔🙄🤣

Just joking in case anyone is misled into thinking I am being serious..... 🤣. 😇


----------



## barryd

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I think Andy was saying no point in discussing it to any great length as we don't know the outcome of ongoing discussions.


I Dont think they are ongoing though Kev. Its done. The Ham Sandwich incident pretty much summed up the situation. I cant see it changing. It cant change really unless the EU relax the rules for the entire world outside of Europe and they wont do that.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I think something will have to change, trucks have their own ways into Europe, cars and Motorhomes don't so will just add to an already long queue at the ports, it's not sustainable and not really policeable either, so something will have to give perhaps just by turning a blind eye to a lot of traffic just to keep things moving, the people of these countries probably want things to carry on as before, or they lose money.


----------



## Glandwr

Unless the French border control is moved from Folkstone to Calais for the Tunnel I doubt if they will give a damn about how long the queueis.:smile2:


----------



## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I think something will have to change, trucks have their own ways into Europe, cars and Motorhomes don't so will just add to an already long queue at the ports, it's not sustainable and not really policeable either, so something will have to give perhaps just by turning a blind eye to a lot of traffic just to keep things moving, the people of these countries probably want things to carry on as before, or they lose money.


Ah I think that if there is some loss of money to EU countries they will put up with the loss, just as brexiters say they are OK with being worse off in return for their freedom. Thus I don't expect any EU country, and certainly not France, to turn a blind eye.

It might be worth considering who is more likely to be worse off as a result of the new arrangements. Say a group of 30 or so companies get together and from an alliance to trade services, supplies and labour between themselves and the trade part works very successfully for years. Then one company decides the arrangement isn't really what they want and resigns from the group wanting to be free of the rules on which group runs.

OK, that's a decision for that company. By all means leave say the rest, but unless you abide by the rules which apply to the rest of the group you can no longer sell to us or buy from us on the preferential basis that members enjoy. That is understood as the leaving company leaves. It is not negotiable from outside because if it was having the group would be pointless.

Now we ask ourselves who is likely to be worse off. The countries who have lost a small percentage of their market because one member of the large group resigned, or the company who has lost their free access to all of the companies which remain in the group. It seem to me that the damage to the many is well spread while the damage to the one is rather more concentrated.

I very much doubt the EU will feel any need to change except if it suits, whereas I would expect the UK to find that things are a little difficult and that to fix that they need some of the old access to be restored.

Now we ask how that can be achieved. Negotiation is the only answer. The UK gives the EU something they want and the EU gives the UK something it wants.

Who will end up giving most will depend on who needs concessions from the other most and on who has the better negotiators. Looking at the result of the last round of negotiations it would be difficult to conclude that the UK's negotiators were particularly able I think. They could be replaced of course but there are very few able trade negotiators in the UK.

From where I sit the UK is not in a strong position and may well be short of time to get some things fixed. Meanwhile I see no desperation in EU members for anything British.

I don't expect a lot of change.


----------



## Penquin

As has been said "Why should, or would the EU change ?" 

It is also not possible for it to chia get, the UK has turned down Norway ++ style and cut off most discussions. The UK could have asked to extend the transition period, but chose not to, even though there was, and is, virtually nothing agreed.

The UK will come out of it in a worse condition; there will be shortages, there will be problems with some agricultural sectors (as the SW production of daffodils has shown - no pickers so, no crop. I suspect tgat will spread as the Governments exemptions are too limited to be of any value in preventing agriculture being wrecked 

I do not believe the EU has any wish to damage the UK, but that is what IS happening; think NI, think fishing, think food exports, think pop music tours - none of which are due to EU actions.

I doubt that MH imports are significant, but things like driving licences and insurance may well as there is no re iprocal arrangement due to the UK not wanting to discuss such things before January 1st..

BUT UK transport companies and drivers only have a very limited extension to allow them to drive in the EU - I can't remember if it is 6 months or a year before "third country permits" are required.....

The airlines also only have a limited time for access - none if these things are agreed.

So, we do not know, cannot know and can only wait and see while hoping that eg France does not enforce the written rules ......... otherwise very long delays will be the outcome.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

Dunno about the daffodils, the shops are full of them, £1 a bunch as normal even in M&S.


----------



## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Dunno about the daffodils, the shops are full of them, £1 a bunch as normal even in M&S.


Might it be that there are sufficient pickers to pick what the home market can take Kev. The vast bulk apparently are normally exported.

Till this shortage of pickers story came up I was unaware that the UK hosts the biggest daffodil farms in the world.

Any way, now you do know about daffodils:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...me-my-day-picking-daffodils-against-the-clock

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nwall-forced-let-flowers-ROT-not-pickers.html

Not that export would be possible anyway under the new rules I should think.


----------



## jiwawa

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Dunno about the daffodils, the shops are full of them, £1 a bunch as normal even in M&S.


Mother's Day flowers were finally delivered to our local MnS at about 4pm on Mother's Day.

Not too many folk looking for them at that stage I'd have thought so a loss to the company.


----------



## dghr272

Wonder if these are ok, do they think we’re all stupid now ?

Terry


----------



## erneboy

dghr272 said:


> Wonder if these are ok, do they think we're all stupid now ?
> 
> Terry


Not all Terry. Just enough to keep them in power.


----------



## bognormike

dghr272 said:


> Wonder if these are ok, do they think we're all stupid now ?
> 
> Terry


Ah, they'll be the curved ones, unlike the European ones which are straight.


----------



## jiwawa

bognormike said:


> Ah, they'll be the curved ones, unlike the European ones which are straight.


Was it not the wretched EU bendy bananas that we didn't want? Or have I misremembered BJ's lie?


----------



## raynipper

jiwawa said:


> Was it not the wretched EU bendy bananas that we didn't want? Or have I misremembered BJ's lie?


No Jean it was a figment of the Daily Mail.

Ray.


----------



## jiwawa

Ah, he just stole the story... From the EU Observer "Boris Johnson repeatedly cited 'crazy' EU rules about the shape of bananas in 2016 to justify his vote for leave in the Brexit referendum."


----------



## dghr272

raynipper said:


> jiwawa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it not the wretched EU bendy bananas that we didn't want? Or have I misremembered BJ's lie?
> 
> 
> 
> No Jean it was a figment of the Daily Mail.
> 
> Ray.
Click to expand...

Johnson has often repeated many of the lies that we're doing the rounds and targeting the EU. Given his profile they gained traction with the EU haters and aligned Gammons.

https://euobserver.com/news/149607

Terry


----------



## Penquin

There is a very long and detailed history of his lies, here is an article that lists 43....

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/37-lies-gaffes-scandals-make-18558695


----------



## peribro

I've not read through all the 10 pages of this thread but I think I've got the drift. The answer though is very simple - don't go to the EU. You won't have to worry about what to take or not, to prove you've been vaccinated and so on. This country has so much more to offer so stay here! Simple really.


----------



## raynipper

Will that stop Boris lying Peter?

Ray.


----------



## erneboy

peribro said:


> I've not read through all the 10 pages of this thread but I think I've got the drift. The answer though is very simple - don't go to the EU. You won't have to worry about what to take or not, to prove you've been vaccinated and so on. This country has so much more to offer so stay here! Simple really.


Weren't you just objecting to bing called a troll on another thread?


----------



## Penquin

I presume that he will not be taking any more of his numerous foreign holidays?

Bothered ? Does this face look bothered ? Bothered ? Moi ?


----------



## raynipper

In 2019, the average UK resident was abroad for a total of 9.7 nights and spent £670 while there. In total, 93.1 million trips were taken, amounting to £62.3 billion spent abroad by tourists from the UK.

Thats a lot of disappointments.

Ray.


----------



## jiwawa

raynipper said:


> In 2019, the average UK resident was abroad for a total of 9.7 nights and spent £670 while there. In total, 93.1 million trips were taken, amounting to £62.3 billion spent abroad by tourists from the UK.
> 
> Thats a lot of disappointments.
> 
> Ray.


I'm guessing we MHers don't contribute too much of that? The thought of spending £65-70 per 24hrs....I'll just go and lie down!


----------



## barryd

jiwawa said:


> I'm guessing we MHers don't contribute too much of that? The thought of spending £65-70 per 24hrs....I'll just go and lie down!


I bet most of us spend around half that amount a day though and we go for much longer. I think last time I looked we spend between £1000-1200 a month roughly when touring but we go away for up to six months or at least we did before the Brexiteers ruined it for everyone and took away our freedoms. Its a fair chunk of money into various European economies.

The prospect of touring in this country fills me with dread now. If they dont allow foreign holidays this year it will be worse here than last year which was bad enough so ill be giving it a swerve again unless we get up to one of the Scottish islands or our remote CL on the Yorkshire coast again but definitely outside the school holidays this year. Roll on they day we can safely head off into Europe again (even if it is just for three months).


----------



## erneboy

You are not limited as to how long you can stay in Ireland Baz. The west abd south coasts are fabulous, even if the weather often isn't.

But it may be that with the continent closed off Ireland could become overrun. I hope not as that might lead to the introduction of restrictions which would be an awful pity.


----------



## raynipper

We are full, burger off.
Bluddy Parisians all heading this way now.

Ray.


----------



## barryd

erneboy said:


> You are not limited as to how long you can stay in Ireland Baz. The west abd south coasts are fabulous, even if the weather often isn't.
> 
> But it may be that with the continent closed off Ireland could become overrun. I hope not as that might lead to the introduction of restrictions which would be an awful pity.


I used to visit a lot Alan many moons ago so know parts of it very well. We have often pondered going in the van but the pull of the continent for a long trip has always been too much. It might be one to consider for the future though. You could do an early summer spring couple of months in Ireland and then hop down to France from there for three months in Europe.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

peribro said:


> I've not read through all the 10 pages of this thread but I think I've got the drift. The answer though is very simple - don't go to the EU. You won't have to worry about what to take or not, to prove you've been vaccinated and so on. This country has so much more to offer so stay here! Simple really.


As the original poster I'm going to take you seriously, for a moment, though that's probably a mistake. Why on earth would I choose not to go to the EU because of an inconvenience? Irritating though the totally unnecessary* restrictions are, for me they are far outweighed by the benefits. I'm not going to bother to list all these, and they would vary for individuals, but I would ask you to point me in the direction of any area of 'this country' where French is the language spoken. One major draw for us for spending time in France is to try to practice speaking French and to try to improve our (not very good) understanding of spoken French.

Anyone travelling now in their caravan or motorhome to the EU will have to adjust what they normally do about taking, and bringing back, any food. They may feel this adjustment is easy and not of much consequence or they might find it a major inconvenience, but it's not likely to stop them going. I thought it was well worth asking others what their approach might be to this change in circumstances.

My question was not particularly meant to knock Brexit (though God knows there's enough justification for that). It was purely a attempt to seek practical solutions to a new motorhoming problem. I thought that was what many people thought there should be more posts about on MHFacts.

* My only political point here. Pre-Brexit such restrictions were unnecessary, but I acknowledge that given that 'Brexit is done' the rules are different.

Chris


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

peribro said:


> I've not read through all the 10 pages of this thread but I think I've got the drift. The answer though is very simple - don't go to the EU. You won't have to worry about what to take or not, to prove you've been vaccinated and so on. This country has so much more to offer so stay here! Simple really.


Yeah but anything is better than where you live Peter.:wink2::wink2:


----------



## jiwawa

erneboy said:


> But it may be that with the continent closed off Ireland could become overrun. I hope not as that might lead to the introduction of restrictions which would be an awful pity.


That's what I'm afraid of!


----------



## GMJ

Pudsey_Bear said:


> So we have to buy French milk, not cuppa until you hit the shops, memsahib will not be happy at that, and where do you dispose of the nasty unhealthy disease-ridden good old British milk?


Kev: Make up a flask and stow it with your bottles. I doubt it would be noticed. We always take a flask of coffee so we can have it when in the tunnel.

Penguin/Ray/Others who live in France: Have you come across decaffeinated teabags in France? I don't drink tea but Mrs GMJ can only use decaff.

In terms of the wider discussion regarding taking stuff, we will take what we normally take and accept that if stopped we will lose it. Plan B would then be stopping at a supermarket first stop which will add an hour to our day. Is there a food supermarket at the City of Europe?

My understanding is that it affects 'raw' foods and not processed or cooked foods...but am happy to be corrected on this if wrong. We always take 6-7 pre cooked meals in our freezer - stuff that I have made prior to leaving home (bolognaise, chilli, lasagne, curry etc) so I hope they will be OK. We also carry 7-8 dough balls for our pizza maker plus some sausages and black pudding for a fry up one day...but I'm guessing they would be under threat if caught.


----------



## Penquin

Re decaffeinated tea bags, Mrs W will have a look -we are not sure.

Don't think it's just raw as ham is, of course, cooked and we have seen that being stopped.


----------



## raynipper

I can't answer about decaffeinated tea as never looked. Sorry but will search the foreign shelves next time.

Ray.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

GMJ said:


> Kev: Make up a flask and stow it with your bottles. I doubt it would be noticed. We always take a flask of coffee so we can have it when in the tunnel.
> 
> Penguin/Ray/Others who live in France: Have you come across decaffeinated teabags in France? I don't drink tea but Mrs GMJ can only use decaff.
> 
> In terms of the wider discussion regarding taking stuff, we will take what we normally take and accept that if stopped we will lose it. Plan B would then be stopping at a supermarket first stop which will add an hour to our day. Is there a food supermarket at the City of Europe?
> 
> My understanding is that it affects 'raw' foods and not processed or cooked foods...but am happy to be corrected on this if wrong. We always take 6-7 pre cooked meals in our freezer - stuff that I have made prior to leaving home (bolognaise, chilli, lasagne, curry etc) so I hope they will be OK. We also carry 7-8 dough balls for our pizza maker plus some sausages and black pudding for a fry up one day...but I'm guessing they would be under threat if caught.


I think I'd just put a few tea bags in with the towels.


----------



## Penquin

That may be a short term answer, but finding out may be a better, more assured long term answer rather than risking confiscation and frustration.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

It's finding out that is the real problem here.


----------



## GMJ

@erneboy

Al - could you please do me a favour and see if you can see decaff teabags in Spanish supermarkets the next time you are in one?

Ta

Graham


----------



## erneboy

GMJ said:


> @erneboy
> 
> Al - could you please do me a favour and see if you can see decaff teabags in Spanish supermarkets the next time you are in one?
> 
> Ta
> 
> Graham


Big supermarkets did have UK decaf Graham. But I have no idea whether any UK tea will be available long term. In general the Spanish drink different types of tea, mint, lemon etc., but not UK style tea.

Lipton tends to be available everywhere, pretty much worldwide, and they do a decaf: https://www.lipton.com/us/es/te-lipton/te-*****-descafeinado.html#!

Lipton is a Pepsi Unilever company so probably processes tea outside the UK meaning that it should still be available. Not my favourite tea, but it's OK.


----------



## jiwawa

GMJ said:


> Is there a food supermarket at the City of Europe?


Yes, at least 1.


----------



## raynipper

Bloody typical.................................

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/stanley-johnson-clause-allows-overseas-085739721.html

Ray.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

GMJ said:


> Kev: Make up a flask and stow it with your bottles. I doubt it would be noticed. We always take a flask of coffee so we can have it when in the tunnel.
> 
> Penguin/Ray/Others who live in France: Have you come across decaffeinated teabags in France? I don't drink tea but Mrs GMJ can only use decaff.
> 
> In terms of the wider discussion regarding taking stuff, we will take what we normally take and accept that if stopped we will lose it. Plan B would then be stopping at a supermarket first stop which will add an hour to our day. Is there a food supermarket at the City of Europe?
> 
> *My understanding is that it affects 'raw' foods and not processed or cooked foods...but am happy to be corrected on this if wrong. We always take 6-7 pre cooked meals in our freezer - stuff that I have made prior to leaving home (bolognaise, chilli, lasagne, curry etc) so I hope they will be OK. We also carry 7-8 dough balls for our pizza maker plus some sausages and black pudding for a fry up one day...but I'm guessing they would be under threat if caught*.


I suppose my question about what CAN we take is because nothing I have read on the topic is clear about this. If your understanding is based on something you've read or heard please let us know. I would have thought that, given that a cheese and ham sandwich was confiscated, it isn't just raw foods that are banned. I'm trying to focus on what we should be able to carry so we can have a meal or two, and something to drink, before having to stock up. We're not keen to stop off at the kind of huge supermarket that's at Cité Europe as soon as we get there. That process would certainly take us more than an hour finding what we want. Then, from experience, shops are often closed when we find somewhere to stop further afield.

I like the idea of a flask of tea or coffee made up for a first stop but I certainly won't be taking any precooked frozen meals as we usually do. So: pasta, cous cous, rice, bread, tins of tomatoes, tins of beans, lentils, tinned sardines, spread that doesn't contain butter, eggs, (I believe they're OK) hummus. What do you reckon, would these be OK?

Chris


----------



## GMJ

I'll re-look to see if I can find my source but its not looking good! Possibly hearsay on a forum somewhere.

Looks as though taking teabags into the EU is OK though (towards the bottom of this article)...

https://www.thelocal.com/20210112/b...can-you-bring-from-the-uk-into-an-eu-country/

*"So tea bags - that popular import by Brits the world over - are OK."*


----------



## ChrisandJohn

GMJ said:


> I'll re-look to see if I can find my source but its not looking good! Possibly hearsay on a forum somewhere.
> 
> Looks as though taking teabags into the EU is OK though (towards the bottom of this article)...
> 
> https://www.thelocal.com/20210112/b...can-you-bring-from-the-uk-into-an-eu-country/
> 
> *"So tea bags - that popular import by Brits the world over - are OK."*


That was helpful. I must admit I'd assumed that tea bags would be OK until Penguin told us about his difficulties importing tea. Perhaps the tea suppliers he contacted were being over cautious until they get used to the new regs, or perhaps loose tea is a problem but highly processed tea bags are OK.

In the link you gave I noted that under a heading 'What can you bring in?' it started by listing what's restricted, and eventually goes on to mention tea bags, marmite, crisps, pot noodles and bread and alcohol as being allowed. So, not a very long list, and hardly anything that constitutes a meal. But that article was geared to ex-pats returning home from trips to the UK, and the kinds of UK items they might be hard to find in continental shops. It obviously wasn't addressing motorhomers' issues.

Chris


----------



## GMJ

It's not looking good I'm afraid.

I have looked at a dozen or so sites now and all say the same: no meat or dairy products. Our own Government is very specific about this too.

However, I have not found anything specifically mentioning frozen meals/food containing meat but I will assume that these are included. To clarify this I just emailed the EU using this form...

https://europa.eu/european-union/contact/write-to-us_en

...so we'll see what they say.

As I now see it:-

- Wait and see what experiences fellow travellers have this summer for those hoping to get into the EU in their MH's/Caravans. Our first trip is hopefully going to be in September so there may be some empirical evidence from travellers in July/August if this is going to be a problem.

- Take food as normal and 'wing it' knowing that if found out it will get confiscated. I guess there is also a chance of a fine etc but I'm thinking it would take a pretty surly border guard to do that this early on into the new relationship. Perhaps when these rules are more widely known in a year or two, this approach may be dodgy!

- Not take anything and factor in an extra hour on the day to visit a supermarket. Hopefully someone in the know will put a list of supermarkets and junctions near Calais and surrounding area, so we can plan accordingly. Maybe an idea for a new thread??

For our trip to Spain each January we normally have enough with us to last until Bordeaux where I hit a supermarket prior to going on to the Spanish border. We then have around 5 or so home cooked meals left in our freezer just to supplement local food/cooking when we are away for the 2 months. We normally stay in Folkestone; cross through the tunnel; and then like to push on past Rouen for our first night. I may have to find a campsite before Rouen in this case.

For other trips we still carry the frozen meals but hit a supermarket within a day or two anyway, for fresh stuff.

Part of the joy of the holiday is exploring the supermarkets/markets abroad so its not too onerous but it will impact upon our travelling times I think.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

Will they actually search every vans fridge and cupboards, have sniffer dogs, only stop red faced people?


----------



## GMJ

Who knows mate.

that's why we need some guinea pigs to go across July/August to find out.

They do have sniffer dogs for drugs etc so maybe they'll get some for grub too!


----------



## Penquin

I know a Lab/Retriever or three that would very happily seek out meat or meat products if any of you lthird country lot try to bring your stuff into our nice safe Country. 😂

So just you lot watch it, hounds will rapidly search and sniff you out..... 🍗🌭🍕🍔🍖🥛🍮🍦🍰🎂🎄🌵🌷🌹🥀💐🍁🍂🍃🌾

We've got to keep the Union strong.....


----------



## raynipper

I think it was you Graham asking about decaffeinated tea bags? Just looked in our local Lidl and although 20 types of wishy washy teas I could not see one decaffeinated.

Ray.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

With respect to Graham, I don't really see the point of decaffeinated Tea or coffee as they also remove the taste, I have tried them over time as they are supposed to help with the old waterworks but they don't and they cost more too usually.


----------



## GMJ

Mrs GMJ drinks it as she cant have caffeine due to medical reasons and its the same with decaff coffee. Tbh I don't notice the difference anymore but then again I'm not a coffee aficionado. It also helps if you suffer from sleep problems.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

GMJ said:


> Mrs GMJ drinks it as she cant have caffeine due to medical reasons and it's the same with decaff coffee. Tbh I don't notice the difference anymore but then again I'm not a coffee aficionado. It also helps if you suffer from sleep problems.


Thanks G I think you mentioned that elsewhere, but I forget what day it is lately. TBH, I'm going off coffee, it all tastes bitter unless you have one-shots, then there's no taste at all, instant used to be nice but not now, I like my mint tea, it's good for diabetics too, and it needs no milk or sugar, so I can have more CAKE, to get back on topic   can we take cake.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Thanks G I think you mentioned that elsewhere, but I forget what day it is lately. TBH, I'm going off coffee, it all tastes bitter unless you have one-shots, then there's no taste at all, instant used to be nice but not now, I like my mint tea, it's good for diabetics too, and it needs no milk or sugar, so I can have more CAKE, to get back on topic   can we take cake.


Apparently not, if it's made with butter. You could take vegan cake I suppose.

Chris


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

VEGAN, nah I'll pass


----------



## GMJ

It looks as though certain processed foods with a moderate amount of dairy in them are OK Kev.

Around half way down...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...-you-can-and-cannot-bring-into-France-from-UK


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

OOOOH!! more cake for me then.


----------



## Penquin

Perhaps with your meat and veg baked inside ?

Oh yes, that's a Cornish Pasty..... 😃


----------



## ChrisandJohn

I've just realised why this issue had become important for me now, rather than in September, or next year, or whenever it is we get to go to France again.

Last September we sold our Knaus Sun Ti and bought a Murvi Piccolo. Now the Knaus, at 6.3 metres, wasn't huge, but was fine for the fairly limited lengths of time we go away - five weeks has been the longest. 

Due to my reduced mobility, and wanting to be able to drive to and park in a wider variety of places we've now gone down to only 5.5 metres and are having to rethink what we take and work out where to put it. The new (second hand) van has a pretty small fridge and virtually no freezer, so I realised I wouldn't be able to take precooked frozen dishes anyway. So because I'm having to think carefully about what we can now carry food wise, even in this country, I'm trying to deal with the question of what we are allowed to take into the EU at the same time. Perhaps I should just concentrate on going away in April and after that I'll know more about how we are using this particular van.


Chris


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

A most sensible plan Chris, and likely the one we'll all be doing.


----------



## raynipper

But I am sure it's been said again and again just about everything you already eat can be bought in Europe. OK some imported stuff will carry a premium but just go shopping.

Ray.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

raynipper said:


> But I am sure it's been said again and again just about everything you already eat can be bought in Europe. OK some imported stuff will carry a premium but just go shopping.
> 
> Ray.


Ray, I'm really looking forward to shopping in France. I'd just prefer it not to be in a massive hypermarket five minutes after we've arrived. So I'd like to take enough with us to stop for a relaxed lunch, or whatever, depending what time we get there.

Apart from the aforementioned tea bags there are no British foods that I'm desperate to import into the EU, but I don't want to go hungry either before we get round to doing a bit of shopping, so it would be really nice to know what we can take that is legal.

I also hate wasting any food so the fact that I won't be able to take whatever contents of my fridge we've not managed to consume before we leave or on the way to the tunnel p*ss*s me *ff, but that's a different issue.

Chris


----------



## D.aucote

Not really sure where you got your information from. But there are no restrictions on taking tea, as it’s a dried product. The only restriction would be if you wanted to take fresh tea leaves, ie not dried.


----------



## Penquin

D.aucote said:


> Not really sure where you got your information from. But there are no restrictions on taking tea, as it's a dried product. The only restriction would be if you wanted to take fresh tea leaves, ie not dried.


That came from us and the abortive attempts to import it from the UK via several companies including Amazon, British Corner Shop and several other similar firms. ALL said not permitted to import as it is a plant PRODUCT. If drying was the sole problem, or not, many other dry products could be imported, but they cannot eg dried fruit, seeds whole dried plants etc......


----------



## erneboy

Likewise. Last month there was no tea getting to Spain from Amazon.


----------



## dghr272

Perhaps @D.aucote could advise if he/she's posting from personal experience if living in the EU or quoting from current 3rd country regulations. I'm sure those here that are experiencing real life issues would be most interested.

Oh btw D.acoute welcome to MHFacts.

Terry


----------



## ChrisandJohn

Could it be that those companies who are refusing to export tea from UK to EU are being overcautious about the details of the ban on animal and plant products? In other words, are they as ignorant as we are about the scope of the ban, and are waiting for others to test the limits?


Chris


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I suppose little thought has been given to the problems of motorhomes traveling to the rest of Europe.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I suppose little thought has been given to the problems of motorhomes traveling to the rest of Europe.


Absolutely none, I would imagine. No time, what with paradoxes like the NI border to get their heads around.

Chris


----------



## dghr272

ChrisandJohn said:


> Could it be that those companies who are refusing to export tea from UK to EU are being overcautious about the details of the ban on animal and plant products? In other words, are they as ignorant as we are about the scope of the ban, and are waiting for others to test the limits?
> 
> Erg
> Chris


Yes it's likely as confusion is widespread, the other issue may well be transportation of said items, several really large logistics companies based in the EU have withdrawn from that business given the issues impacting their lorry drivers.

Might be worth looking for Irish brands as it's been reported many shops who would have previously stocked large volumes of GB products are replacing them with similar hassle free Irish branded produce like tea, butter, cheese, meat etc.

Terry


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

What a bleeding nightmare we now have due to so many government lies over Brexit.


----------



## GMJ

dghr272 said:


> Yes it's likely as confusion is widespread, the other issue may well be transportation of said items, several really large logistics companies based in the EU have withdrawn from that business given the issues impacting their lorry drivers.
> 
> Might be worth looking for Irish brands as it's been reported many shops who would have previously stocked large volumes of GB products are replacing them with similar hassle free Irish branded produce like tea, butter, cheese, meat etc.
> 
> Terry


Here's a thought: if we buy Irish products in the UK can we take those with us through the tunnel/on the ferry???


----------



## jiwawa

ChrisandJohn said:


> Could it be that those companies who are refusing to export tea from UK to EU are being overcautious about the details of the ban on animal and plant products? In other words, are they as ignorant as we are about the scope of the ban, and are waiting for others to test the limits?
> 
> Chris


I suspect that's the case Chris - let someone else figure out the maze. 


Pudsey_Bear said:


> I suppose little thought has been given to the problems of motorhomes traveling to the rest of Europe.


Zero I'd imagine. But really, in the scheme of things, it's an irritant but it's not going to stop us going I think.


----------



## erneboy

GMJ said:


> Here's a thought: if we buy Irish products in the UK can we take those with us through the tunnel/on the ferry???


Isn't it exporting from the UK that's the problem? The origin of the product isn't the problem.

Many companies who previously imported from the EU and then exported some of what they'd imported have found that they can't export it again and so have opened premises within the EU and now only bring what they can sell in the UK into the UK.


----------



## GMJ

I think the problem Al, is more the meat and dairy products and pathogens in production etc...which is hilarious as I suspect our food production standards are as good as any in the world.

maybe an opportunity for a reciprocal standards recognition agreement in the future? Who knows.


----------



## ChrisandJohn

GMJ said:


> I think the problem Al, is more the meat and dairy products and pathogens in production etc...which is hilarious as I suspect our food production standards are as good as any in the world.
> 
> maybe an opportunity for a reciprocal standards recognition agreement in the future? Who knows.


Yes, but look at the potential to go downhill.

If we could reach a future agreement with EU about standards that would be good, but that could reduce our scope to trade with 'the rest of the world' making Brexit even more pointless.

Chris


----------



## erneboy

Yes Graham.

I guess we can't really say too much about what standards the future might bring. If the EU let UK stuff in now they'd have to let all the stuff from every other third country in as well. So it's not just about UK standards. Or even standards as they now today.

The UK seems to be OK with allowing food from the US in, that's what a trade deal with the US would require, and their standards are well below the UK's current standards.


Maybe the UK intends maintaining standards, as they say but if so how do they expect to get a deal with the US.

There are numerous problems which are greatly compounded by the UK claiming to want things which are mutually exclusive and by also by the fact that anything the UK Regime says or undertakes to do today may be ignored or denied tomorrow morning before breakfast.


----------



## GMJ

GMJ said:


> It's not looking good I'm afraid.
> 
> I have looked at a dozen or so sites now and all say the same: no meat or dairy products. Our own Government is very specific about this too.
> 
> However, I have not found anything specifically mentioning frozen meals/food containing meat but I will assume that these are included. To clarify this I just emailed the EU using this form...
> 
> https://europa.eu/european-union/contact/write-to-us_en
> 
> ...so we'll see what they say.


After chasing the EU and emailing their representatives in the UK, I received this reply...

*The current rules banning the introduction into the EU by travellers of meat, milk or their products do not distinguish the state under which these products are at the time of entering the territory of the European Union. Frozen food containing meat is therefor also subject to the import ban. You may consult the following website for further information: https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/animalproducts/personal_imports_en*

So that's bolluxed up us taking home made meals with us when we go abroad then. Don't get me wrong, we like to sho[ local and cook other stuff when away but these meals are useful on travelling days.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

Not a problem we'll be facing anytime soon, anyway, if the EU wants to play silly buggers with us they can do it without our money for the time being.


----------



## raynipper

Errrrmmmm, can you elaborate on that Kev.?

Ray/


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I don't think I need to Ray really.


----------



## erneboy

I guess that the EU take the position that since the UK wanted to become a third country they knew they'd be subject to the rules which apply to third countries. They are doing that on the basis that if they make an exception for one third country, under WTO rules, they would have to make the same exception for all third countries. Thus to allow agricultural products from the Uk to enter freely they would have to permit the same from every other third country.

The good news is that the remedy is simple. All that's needed is a free trade agreement with the EU. That is eminently possible so long as the UK agrees to the terms on which the block trades. There can't be exceptions for the above reason. I hope that helps.

There's no blame for the EU here. All brexiters knew that in the absence of a free trade deal WTO rules would apply.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I beg to differ Alan, as you know we were told a load of crap in order to get the exit vote.


----------



## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I beg to differ Alan, as you know we were told a load of crap in order to get the exit vote.


Indeed you were Kev. One part of that was the idea that the EU could accommodate the UK while not doing the same for others countries.

The remedy is a trade agreement.


----------



## Penquin

That does not surprise me as such options would be exploited by others trying to get cheap products of questionable standards into the bloc.

BUT, I strongly suspect pragmatism and staff availability will result in very few such “dangerous products” actually being looked for, or found at the borders between the U.K. and the EU.

The EU is well aware that the UK’s standards are not a cause for concern, particularly with the quantities that a MH or a car is likely to be carrying. Vans are different and are probably much more likely to be checked as they enter.

To do more than that would require a massive increase in border control/Customs staff and would result in delays which would impact the movement of material through the Port area. I have seen no suggestions here that France intends to markedly increase Douane staff around Ports to the U.K..

That may be a cop out and an encouragement to break the laws - which of course, I would never recommend. BUT the odd jar of Bovril is very unlikely to cause a major incident and a frozen ?????? looks exactly like a frozen ????? which could be shepherds pie, or pasta carbonara (without the bacon of course). Perhaps labelling needs to be overlooked ?


----------



## H1-GBV

But we come back to the issue of "declarations".

Do you admit to the customs officer that you have a meat pie/sandwich/pint (yes, lets get rid of these nasty foreign measurements :wink2: ) of milk?
Or do you hope that you are not subjected to a check and thereby get accused of smuggling?

Gordon

(I'll go with the latter option: but if I declare it I guess it will be confiscated so better to just not take it in the first place :grin2


----------



## GMJ

Unless we hear about a spate of MH/Caravans being stopped and searched and items being confiscated and fines given out, I think we'll take the risk and carry meals with us. It they get confiscated and we get a telling off then so be it.

I'll also ensure I know where the nearest supermarket is to the chunnel exit too, just in case.


----------



## dghr272

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I beg to differ Alan, as you know we were told a load of crap in order to get the exit vote.


That's true Kev but the actual repercussions were widely explained and discussed, even here by those who could see the con from day one, unfortunately many went with Cummings slogan that it was all "Project Fear". To make matters even worse they still believe it despite evidence to the contrary appearing every day. Once a cult member it's hard for them to ignore the propaganda about the big bad EU who legally can't make exceptions that as Alan said breaks WTO rules.

GB did it to itself so time to suck it up collectively, with the exception of us in NI who get to keep our trade links with the EU, and of course the very well off who can afford to buy their way out from the impacts on other less well off.

Terry


----------



## bilbaoman

There are reports that there as been an increase in drug smuggling from the uk into France as mr Macron as ordered the french customs to retrain their dogs to detect British sausage and cheddar cheese as this is a greater threat to France and the EU than drugs


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

dghr272 said:


> That's true Kev but the actual repercussions were widely explained and discussed, even here by those who could see the con from day one, unfortunately many went with Cummings slogan that it was all "Project Fear". To make matters even worse they still believe it despite evidence to the contrary appearing every day. Once a cult member it's hard for them to ignore the propaganda about the big bad EU who legally can't make exceptions that as Alan said breaks WTO rules.
> 
> GB did it to itself so time to suck it up collectively, with the exception of us in NI who get to keep our trade links with the EU, and of course the very well off who can afford to buy their way out from the impacts on other less well off.
> 
> Terry


Too be honest Terry, I didn't really follow the Brexit threads as it was just a big argument, and as you quite rightly say, tough **** if you voted out, but also if you didn't, I have already done my penance though on here already, I just have lost faith in anything a government might say, Especially that arse Johnsson after his BS comment on the post office staff screw up, I sincerely hope that they get stupidly high compensation for all they have had to go through, they will never get their lives and reputations back, as people will still think no smoke without fire despite the ruling.


----------



## nicholsong

We have a different problem with these food bans, both into and out of UK.

We shall have to come to UK for 48 hours sometime this year for MOT, so even if food which we buy in EU is allowed into UK, it may be confiscated when we re-enter EU even though it was bought legally in EU in the first place. Do you think French Douaniers would let it through?

Add to that I will not be able legally to pick up several jars of Bovril - Shut Up, you Marmite-lovers with your smug 'I'm all right Jack, 'cos Marmite is vegetable'! I need to beef-up my Charles Atlas body.

Geoff


----------



## bilbaoman

Maybe you have a good case against the EU in the european human rights Court that without your daily fix of Bovril your quality of live will be endangered and that Bovil shoud be on the exemption list as a medicine


----------



## KeithChesterfield

Do you think they will have specialised Dog Sniffers to find the packet of Wensleydale in the depths of your garage area or the bacon rashers stuffed in an overhead locker ? 

Luckily I don't think Werner's are affected by the ban ......


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I reckon we should all take what we want and clog the courts up, after you Sir.


----------



## erneboy

You might clog the bins up with your confiscated food too, thus wasting your money. 

The chances of prosecutions are slim I'd say. Perhaps if you had large quantities obviously hidden and had failed to declare it if asked. You would of course be wasting a good deal of your money to clog the court up and they may feel that if they did prosecute a few the intention would be to discourage so you may be invited to make a substantial contribution to the French exchequer.

I don't think I'll join in with the court clogging idea.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I bet very little gets wasted though


----------



## raynipper

You can always buy it there..........................

https://2qdhx.r.ag.d.sendibm3.com/m...bc8lPA52g8omEKakl0DW26c06tlNqZ2qtplfCRY10NGaw

Ray.


----------



## erneboy

On the only occasion I had anything confiscated I was invited by the customs man to chuck it into a bin which already has some stuff in it. I suppose he might have nicked things, thus risking his job, but he wouldn't have taken mine. I jumped up and down on it before chucking it, just in case.

My guess is that there's probably a high degree of video surveillance of customs checks.


----------



## bilbaoman

Does anyone know if you have to sign a declaration on arrival stating that you have not any of banned foods on their list like you do when you enter Australia.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear

I thought that was obligatory when going through any customs.


----------



## Penquin

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I thought that was obligatory when going through any customs.


I never have for any of the very many countries I have visited outside the EU, either going or coming.

As a question for the current time, the chances of any of our members being able to say yes or no is fairly low as travel since January has been non-existent unless for work etc., second homeowners cannot visit, no family visits in either way. So very unlikely IMO.


----------



## erneboy

Nor have I.


----------



## Mrplodd

Realistically we will all have to just wait and see what the situation is once things get back to "normal" after Covid.

It's entirely possible that at the Channel ports there will simply not be enough staff to routinely check every MH or Caravan. They may decide to stop every 29th one and have a nose around, or they might just adopt the attitude that it's far more trouble than it's worth to bother about any "Rosbif" and his small packet of ham and jar of Bovril.

I reckon they will be hyper vigilant for a short while (to make a point, which the French seem to like doing) and then become less and less concerned. Yes the regulations will be in place, but with food standards in the U.K. being what they are there is not going to be any nasty "contamination" of the EU as a result of me taking a packet of sausages to France in my fridge because I am the one that's going to eat them and not any E.U. citizen!

Until things open up all we can do is guess and/or speculate.The somewhat annoying thing for me is that clearly the U.K. Govt are not going to impose any sort of reciprocal rules on E.U. citizens bringing *their* foodstuffs to the U.K. Maybe they should. But only in the interests of fairness of course !


----------



## bilbaoman

I hope the Uk goverment does not play the silly game as my family are waiting for their chorizo jamon and spanish cheeses they will be upset at the amount alcohol we can now take and i am upset no brown sauce British cheeses sausage and bacon for me on the return trip


----------



## erneboy

The UK Govt. don't have the infrastructure or staff to institute the checks they agreed to in their successful brexit deal which they heralded as a great triumph.


In the meantime, pending preparations they are doing nothing, because nothing was what they had planned to do all along. The problem was that they were doing nothing on the basis that they'd get all they wanted so that nothing would be needed. That plan failed.

Sadly brexit is and was based on lies.


----------



## Glandwr

bilbaoman said:


> I hope the Uk goverment does not play the silly game as my family are waiting for their chorizo jamon and spanish cheeses they will be upset at the amount alcohol we can now take and i am upset no brown sauce British cheeses sausage and bacon for me on the return trip


Tell them to go to their local Lidl. Ours always has Iberian Jambon (on and off the bone) and Manchego.


----------



## bilbaoman

Glandwr said:


> Tell them to go to their local Lidl. Ours always has Iberian Jambon (on and off the bone) and Manchego.


But then they would have to pay for it not Dad:smile2::smile2::smile2:


----------



## Glandwr

Mrplodd said:


> Realistically we will all have to just wait and see what the situation is once things get back to "normal" after Covid.
> 
> It's entirely possible that at the Channel ports there will simply not be enough staff to routinely check every MH or Caravan. They may decide to stop every 29th one and have a nose around, or they might just adopt the attitude that it's far more trouble than it's worth to bother about any "Rosbif" and his small packet of ham and jar of Bovril.
> 
> I reckon they will be hyper vigilant for a short while (to make a point, which the French seem to like doing) and then become less and less concerned. Yes the regulations will be in place, but with food standards in the U.K. being what they are there is not going to be any nasty "contamination" of the EU as a result of me taking a packet of sausages to France in my fridge because I am the one that's going to eat them and not any E.U. citizen!
> 
> Until things open up all we can do is guess and/or speculate.The somewhat annoying thing for me is that clearly the U.K. Govt are not going to impose any sort of reciprocal rules on E.U. citizens bringing *their* foodstuffs to the U.K. Maybe they should. But only in the interests of fairness of course !


. Does anyone know if French customs and immigration are still on UK soil at the Tunnel or have we thrown them out now? Strikes me that with us having to accommodate any queues and disruption shortages of manpower won't concern them at all.


----------



## erneboy

bilbaoman said:


> I hope the Uk goverment does not play the silly game as my family are waiting for their chorizo jamon and spanish cheeses they will be upset at the amount alcohol we can now take and i am upset no brown sauce British cheeses sausage and bacon for me on the return trip


One man's silly game is another man's way of controlling what enters their country or trading block. You might like the borders simply to be open for you to import whatever you like. If that happened the borders operated by that country or trading block would have to be open for all to import what they like. Allow third country agricultural products to enter from the UK and you are obliged to extend the same access to all third countries. Hormone beef and washed chicken from the US for example. The WTO rules don't distinguish between imports on the basis of quantity or the status of the importer or even the intended end use of the product.

The UK will likely be forced to do it. They don't set the rules on world trade, luckily. The WTO do that.

If you think the rules are unfair on you why not lobby the WTO for changes and see what the reply is. In the meantime, pending their granting you permission to do as you like, if you want to apportion blame at least lay it where it belongs please.

I find the current situation bothersome too, but I know how it happened. It could have been avoided had the UK worked for a free trade agreement with the EU, but brexiters rejected the terms of agreement the EU applies in return for the granting of free access.

It's fairly simple really. If your country doesn't agree comprehensive trade deals with others that inevitably has consequences for the movement of goods.


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## GMJ

I'm more concerned about duty free allowances and Mrs GMJ's annual supply of Spanish gin tbh! 

We usually aim to bring back a years worth as its only around 5€ a bottle. I'll have to research and do some man maths to see how much import tariffs/duty will be when we come back through next March. Hopefully it'll still be worth it.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Mrplodd said:


> Realistically we will all have to just wait and see what the situation is once things get back to "normal" after Covid.
> 
> It's entirely possible that at the Channel ports there will simply not be enough staff to routinely check every MH or Caravan. They may decide to stop every 29th one and have a nose around, or they might just adopt the attitude that it's far more trouble than it's worth to bother about any "Rosbif" and his small packet of ham and jar of Bovril.
> 
> I reckon they will be hyper vigilant for a short while (to make a point, which the French seem to like doing) and then become less and less concerned. Yes the regulations will be in place, but with food standards in the U.K. being what they are there is not going to be any nasty "contamination" of the EU as a result of me taking a packet of sausages to France in my fridge because I am the one that's going to eat them and not any E.U. citizen!
> 
> Until things open up all we can do is guess and/or speculate.The somewhat annoying thing for me is that clearly the U.K. Govt are not going to impose any sort of reciprocal rules on E.U. citizens bringing *their* foodstuffs to the U.K. Maybe they should. But only in the interests of fairness of course !


I agree with most of that it being common sense, but I hope the UK does NOT follow suit as it will just screw it all up.


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## erneboy

In the end, under WTO rules, the UK may be forced to follow suit. They are in breach of the rules at the moment. Applying the rules selectively may lead to very substantial financial claims against the UK from those nations not being granted the exceptional access.

English people seem to prefer to ignore the facts in order to think of this as though the issue is just a bi-lateral one between the EU and the UK. It just isn't that simple.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Just the English then Alan?


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## bilbaoman

If you are a whiskey drinker try Mercadonas James Webb i find it as smooth as the Bells or Famous Grouse i drink when i runout of the single malts my daughter brings me from the UK and its only 5-90 euro a bottle


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## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Just the English then Alan?


Citizens.of the other nations of the UK do seem to have a better grasp Kev, yes.

In Scotland and NI that may be down to local media knowing that their audience were majority remainers so that brexit lies can be challenged, even if only gently.

As a matter of interest Kev, do you agree that the brexit project was almost entirely an English one?


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## raynipper

It was a Farage one taking advantage of Cameron fears. Now look at him.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear

erneboy said:


> Citizens.of the other nations of the UK do seem to have a better grasp Kev, yes.
> 
> In Scotland and NI that may be down to local media knowing that their audience were majority remainers so that brexit lies can be challenged, even if only gently.
> 
> As a matter of interest Kev, do you agree that the brexit project was almost entirely an English one?


I can't remember yesterday never mind that far back.


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## dghr272

bilbaoman said:


> If you are a whiskey drinker try Mercadonas James Webb i find it as smooth as the Bells or Famous Grouse i drink when i runout of the single malts my daughter brings me from the UK and its only 5-90 euro a bottle


Ah ha, I'm sorry but if you think Bells is smooth, I can't take you serious, I'll agree with Grouse not being bad but to be perfectly honest Bushmills is the one if you want a smooth Whiskey. :wink2:

Terry


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## erneboy

Let me help then Kev. NI and Scotland voted against it.


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## GMJ

To my eternal shame, Wales didnt!


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## dghr272

GMJ said:


> To my eternal shame, Wales didnt!


No shame, the con artists were very slick, that and a little rule breaking got them over the line, just.

Terry


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## Pudsey_Bear

No shame, but we can allow regret, and remember to not let them fool us again.


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## bilbaoman

dghr272 said:


> Ah ha, I'm sorry but if you think Bells is smooth, I can't take you serious, I'll agree with Grouse not being bad but to be perfectly honest Bushmills is the one if you want a smooth Whiskey. :wink2:
> 
> Terry


Even though the Irish discovered Whiskey 90 years before the Scots any scotch whisky is smoother than any Irish whiskey from one whose ancestors fought with Robert the Bruce


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## dghr272

bilbaoman said:


> dghr272 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ha, I'm sorry but if you think Bells is smooth, I can't take you serious, I'll agree with Grouse not being bad but to be perfectly honest Bushmills is the one if you want a smooth Whiskey. /images/MotorhomeFacts_2014/smilies/tango_face_wink.png
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
> 
> Even though the Irish discovered Whiskey 90 years before the Scots any scotch whisky is smoother than any Irish whiskey from one whose ancestors fought with Robert the Bruce
Click to expand...

You're not a connoisseur then. 😆

Terry


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## GMJ

I've emailed the EU again to ask about banned food in tins, to see if they are allowed.

I'll report back when I get an answer.


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## GMJ

I had a reply from the EU and basically it does not matter what state the dairy or meat is in: raw, cooked, frozen or tinned...it is verboten!

So no Carnation Milk or Spam!



I will however, be hiding my emergency tin of corned beef somewhere when we go across the channel!


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## bilbaoman

GMJ said:


> I had a reply from the EU and basically it does not matter what state the dairy or meat is in: raw, cooked, frozen or tinned...it is verboten!
> 
> So no Carnation Milk or Spam!
> 
> I will however, be hiding my emergency tin of corned beef somewhere when we go across the channel!


You will now be on the EU watched list and be subject to extra checks because this forum is being monitored by friends of VDL:frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## erneboy

Ray's neighbour wil have reported you as well Graham. You're fkt.


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## baldlygo

Corned beef seems easy to get around here. I recommend Top Budget from Intermarche - little fat and a very good price.


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## bilbaoman

baldlygo said:


> Corned beef seems easy to get around here. I recommend Top Budget from Intermarche - little fat and a very good price.


Please do not bring that tin into the Uk as it appears damaged and could be infected by the mad Brussels disease


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## Penquin

AFAIK dented and bent cans are unsafe as the inner thin plating of tin onto the steel is easily broken leading to reactions between the contents and the metal......

https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/Is-it-safe-to-use-food-from-dented-cans

The US Department of Agriculture and other organisations say NO if the dent is on the top or involves a seam or an have a tiger laid in it. If the seal is broken at a seal, bacteria can enter rendering the food potentially dangerous.

That size denting would be a can to avoid for me.... sorry.


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## erneboy

Also in Spain from Carrefour. The brand here is Hereford. https://www.carrefour.es/?q=Hereford

My thanks to Bill for that tip.


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## GMJ

Oh Lordy what have I done!!!???

If I didn't think they were out to get me I'm certain now.

Goodbye cruel world...


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## GMJ

I have emailed my new BBF at the EU to ask him/her/they about meals made with quorn instead of meat. They are 100% vegetarian but when cooked look exactly the same as stuff what normal folk eat.







I use 50/50 mix of mince/quorn now in my cooking normally...better for you; cheaper; save the planet etc etc

I asked him/her/they how I can prove it if we are stopped.

We'll see what he/her/they say...


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## GMJ

*Update on Quorn meals*

The EU have responded...

_*Please see below a reply from our colleagues from EU Policies 2*_:

_*Quorn, as a fungus-derived product, is not a product of animal origin. Therefore, if not mixed with any ingredient of animal origin, there is no particular requirement to import in the EU.

More generally, there are no specific guidelines or legal provisions that specify which information must be shown. Normally the product description is on the packaging and that will be the information that custom officers could be expected to look at.

Finally, quorn is also available on the mainland.*_

So there we are: take an empty packet with you plus a translation maybe.

How they can tell whether a frozen chilli has quorn or meat though will be interesting!


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## Pudsey_Bear

Fungus is alive so might be a animal 😀😁😂


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## nicholsong

GMJ said:


> *Update on Quorn meals*
> 
> The EU have responded...
> 
> _*Please see below a reply from our colleagues from EU Policies 2*_:
> 
> _*Quorn, as a fungus-derived product, is not a product of animal origin. Therefore, if not mixed with any ingredient of animal origin, there is no particular requirement to import in the EU.
> 
> More generally, there are no specific guidelines or legal provisions that specify which information must be shown. Normally the product description is on the packaging and that will be the information that custom officers could be expected to look at.
> 
> Finally, quorn is also available on the mainland.*_
> 
> So there we are: take an empty packet with you plus a translation maybe.
> 
> How they can tell whether a frozen chilli has quorn or meat though will be interesting!


So if it is not in a packet, then what ?

Does anyone know what the instructions are to HM Customs Officers inspecting a French or British MH entering the UK?

Geoff


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## GMJ

I think the food thing isn't such an issue for entering the UK Geoff. I'm sure I read that small quantities for personal use are allowed.

If we go down the quorn road I intend to take an empty packet of quorn plus a translation of the ingredients plus a copy of my email from the EU, again with a translation.

There is another issue to my mind though: if I make a quorn bolognaise for example and then freeze it, it looks exactly the same as a beef mince version. So unless they defrost one and test it, how can they now its a plant based meal?

We really need some folks to go across to France in their MH's in the summer and then to report back as to what checks - if any - are taking place or if common sense will break out and the border staff realise that they have bigger fish to fry/better things to do than inspect the contents of a MH fridge!


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## erneboy

As at all customs points I expect checks will vary from nodding you through to taking your van half apart depending on what the officer feels is required and what mood they are in at the time.


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## GMJ

I agree Al. I cant think they will be interested in a few bits and bobs in a MH.

I wonder what the position would be if I bought stuff in the UK that was from the ROI (or elsewhere in the EU)?

I think I'll email my contact and ask...bear with.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Unless you are used to doing evasive manoeuvres your body language and red face (inc wife ) could result in a lot of looking in cupboards, loss of fridge contents and worse G.


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## GMJ

I have no problem with lying and looking innocent. I used to be a teacher remember...

"Yes that's a great answer Johnny, very imaginative. Now, does anyone else have an answer?"

aka...

"No you window licker, try again! Now any of you other deadbeats have a clue or shall I carry on wasting my time up here while you pretend to listen?"


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## H1-GBV

GMJ said:


> I agree Al. I cant think they will be interested in a few bits and bobs in a MH.
> 
> *I wonder what the position would be if I bought stuff in the UK that was from the ROI (or elsewhere in the EU)?
> *
> I think I'll email my contact and ask...bear with.


A: At the moment, nothing!
You recall that one of the major aims of Brexit was to "take back control"? Boris has decided that we shouldn't do that too quickly, so didn't plan for it when he was advertising his "oven ready" deal nor when he was denying the need for an extension to the transition period.
So the UK is not imposing the rules and regulations which it is legally required to do under those famous WTO rules which JRM et al were so keen for us to follow. Effectively, EU goods are being given carte blanche until 1st October (I think). It was going to be 1st March (I think) but it would have required effort on behalf of HMG and would probably cause disruption at our borders.
It wasn't just Theresa May kicking things into the long grass.:frown2:

B: Don't worry about ROI - you can bring things in from NI under exactly the same rules as anywhere in EU (NI Protocol).
And, of course, "we" are not applying those aspects of the "fantastic" deal much heralded at Xmas.

C: David Frost has been talking to NI paramilitaries this week and telling them that the EU needs to see sense and adopt a more easy-going stance, so that goods, especially food, can travel more freely across the Irish Sea.
The EU have responded by saying that GB chose the Brexit which it wanted: that did not include aligning with EU food and phyto-sanitary regulations so it is up to "us" to sort out the mess.

If you choose to break the law when we decide to enforce it, then the consequences will be on your head.
I'm sure you were always sympathetic when little Johnny said "please Sir, I'm not the only one doing that. And anyway, it's a silly rule". :wink2:

Gordon

And, of course, if he lied to you then you just ignored it and didn't increase the punishment >


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## GMJ

I think I mis communicated there Gordon: the trust of what I was saying was that if I bought goods in the UK that came from, say the ROI/anywhere in the EU and had them with me when I went to France, would they be allowed in or would they fall foul of the EU no meat and dairy law.


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## bilbaoman

GMJ said:


> I think I mis communicated there Gordon: the trust of what I was saying was that if I bought goods in the UK that came from, say the ROI/anywhere in the EU and had them with me when I went to France, would they be allowed in or would they fall foul of the EU no meat and dairy law.


Sorry once its in the UK it becomes contaminated even if you bring food into the UK from the EU you cannot take it back to EU if its on the banned list:frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## jiwawa

According to the CAMC we can take durians with us!! -
"There are restrictions on the food that you can carry into the EU. You cannot take meat, milk or products containing them into the EU; there are some exceptions, e.g. certain amounts of powdered infant milk, infant food, special food or pet food required for medical reasons. You cannot take plants including fruit and vegetables with the exception of bananas, coconuts, dates, pineapples and durians. Check the rules on the European Commission website. When returning to the UK you can currently bring these products with you for personal consumption but always check for the most up to date information on GOV.UK"

I had to look up durian - "Grown in many countries across tropical South East Asia, the spiky, stinky durian is an acquired taste. The fruit is loved and loathed in equal measure. Eating durian is banned in many outdoor spaces throughout Singapore and carrying it is prohibited on public transport because of its smell."

Think I'll pass on that one!


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## aldra

Maybe carry durians to put off a search for illegal foodstuffs 

I shan’t be travelling abroad for the foreseeable future , although I’m happy to shop when travelling I like a few things in stock until I find a supermarket 

Sandra


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## GMJ

bilbaoman said:


> Sorry once its in the UK it becomes contaminated even if you bring food into the UK from the EU you cannot take it back to EU if its on the banned list:frown2::frown2::frown2:


Yes you are correct, my contact in the EU has confirmed this: no taking meat/dairy products into France etc even if they are unopened and originated in the EU and are marked as such.


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## Pudsey_Bear

What a state we are in.


Any news about taking dog/cat food across yet?

What if you had a pet cow, could you take that


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## Penquin

Pudsey_Bear said:


> What a state we are in.
> 
> Any news about taking dog/cat food across yet?
> 
> What if you had a pet cow, could you take that


Dog and cat food CAN be taken into the EU but only if the following conditions are complied with;

1. You are only taking enough for a short period, I think one week....

2. The really BIG problem is that you can only take it if it is a specialist food, prescribed by a vet.,

In other words for Joe Bloggs and his trusty Mutt or Tiddles, no chance, stay away......

The EU is determined to avoid the risk that they may be contaminated by those filthy Brits.

Isn't it a good job that many pet foods are made by international companies such as Pedigree.....

AND, it is probably no more than FIVE TIMES AS EXPENSIVE as Aldi.

See, winner, winner, but no chicken dinner for Fido.

AFAIK the only exception is race horses and I have heard nothing about race cows.....


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## aldra

Well they will have to exist on home cooked food

Meat, liver, minced beef and rice can be bought in Europe 

The only tinned food shadow eats is butchers tripe 

Does dry dog food count in the new laws ?

I doubt he will make a trip to Europe again , he’s an old git and I’d prefer to be close to home when the time comes to say goodbye

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear

Isn't a race horse considered food?


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## patp

Kev! Wash your mouth out!

The pet food problem could cause a real headache if you have a very fussy eater. Molly came to me with a reputation for not eating. She is severely underweight. I have never had a fussy eater due to my philosophy that a hungry dog will eat if you hold out long enough. A poorly dog, is a different matter. Anyway I managed to get hold of some Rocco tinned complete food (she has a mouth full of horrible teeth so does not eat dry food apparently) and she eats it with gusto. I am mixing it, now, with some new food which is cold pressed dry rather than ultra heated dry. It is called Tribal, is softer than normal dry, and I am very impressed with it after feeding it to Georgia. I don't know where it is made but the Rocco is made in Germany which is bringing its own problems because of importing it. The Tribal is very expensive but they do a wet version which I have bought and brought with us to try while away. My local pet shop is owned by a health nut so I will just take advice from him.

What is the position with bringing dog food into UK? I could make a killing on bringing in Rocco tins as it is very highly regarded in the dog nutrition world.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I hate the taste of carbolic soap.


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## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Isn't a race horse considered food?


It certainly is in France.


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## GMJ

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Isn't a race horse considered food?


Bloody nice steak is horse. I always look for it on a menu when in France and have it if I can find it. bot of Dijon mustard and some skinny French fries...nom nom nom


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## bilbaoman

Maybe i will bring in tins of Rocco instead of the brandy i used to bring into the UK for the family


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## Pudsey_Bear

Not sure I could eat a horse despite many people saying they could, now a nice pup maybe.


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## erneboy

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Not sure I could eat a horse despite many people saying they could, now a nice pup maybe.


That's the threat I use to keep our dogs in line. "Behave yourselves or I'll stick you in the oven and eat you."


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## Pudsey_Bear

Fried in good butter and garlic is better.


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## patp

I can never fathom why horse meat is not used in dog food. It would, at least, be free from growth promoters and hormones etc. Racehorses, in particular, live on a wonderful diet free of any "additives".


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## Pudsey_Bear

Allegedly


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## nicholsong

patp said:


> I can never fathom why horse meat is not used in dog food. It would, at least, be free from growth promoters and hormones etc. Racehorses, in particular, live on a wonderful diet free of any "additives".


Have you never heard of the 'Horse doping' scandals? Has it been wiped out?


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## patp

There are millions of horses in the world. The amount doped must be miniscule. If you want to have a horse slaughtered you have to sign to say it is free of drugs so that it can go into a food chain somewhere. If it is on medication you get very little for the carcase. Perhaps it does go into the dog food market and they just hide it among the "additives" or "meat derivatives".


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## Glandwr

4 years ago I unknowingly had a horse meat steak in Catania Sicily. Only found out later. It was rather good, suspiciously large hanging off the plate but not the tenderest steak I've had. Nice source though.


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## patp

The reason it was so tough is that the Italians have no compunction in transporting live horses hundreds and hundreds of miles across Europe just to slaughter the poor creatures there. World Horse Welfare have been fighting and fighting to get the despicable practice stopped. The meat would have been full of adrenaline from the poor animals dreadful journey, often without food, water and rest stops. Many break legs en route but no one cares


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## Glandwr

patp said:


> The reason it was so tough is that the Italians have no compunction in transporting live horses hundreds and hundreds of miles across Europe just to slaughter the poor creatures there. World Horse Welfare have been fighting and fighting to get the despicable practice stopped. The meat would have been full of adrenaline from the poor animals dreadful journey, often without food, water and rest stops. Many break legs en route but no one cares


Some terrible things have been/are done done to animals. A butcher relative of mine relates how (not his father but competitors) would in the 60s inject bullocks with orange juice an hour or two before slaughter. Dispersed through the body the acetic acid would tenderise the toughest meat as it hung. Only problem was that the poor beast died in absolute agony. I wouldn't say no body cares, more that those who do it don't and the majority have no idea what goes on.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I saw a thing somewhere about a halal abattoir in lancashire where they were abusing sheep.


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## nicholsong

patp said:


> There are millions of horses in the world. The amount doped must be miniscule. If you want to have a horse slaughtered you have to sign to say it is free of drugs so that it can go into a food chain somewhere. If it is on medication you get very little for the carcase. Perhaps it does go into the dog food market and they just hide it among the "additives" or "meat derivatives".


The 'Doping' was in racehorses.


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## bilbaoman

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I saw a thing somewhere about a halal abattoir in lancashire where they were abusing sheep.


I also understand that there is widespread abuse of sheep in Wales Aberdeen and Derby


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## patp

It is little known that supermarkets often have halal meat on their shelves without disclosing it clearly on the label. It is just available cheap on the open market so we get it foisted on us. I buy my meat from a local "ethical" butcher who visits the farms he buys from.


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## Pudsey_Bear

bilbaoman said:


> I also understand that there is widespread abuse of sheep in Wales Aberdeen and Derby


I didn't know you were from Derby.


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## bilbaoman

No just across the border but the company employed a lot of Derby County supporters who always wore wellingtons


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