# Hearing Aid rip-off.



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

The great Hearing Aid rip off.

Is it only me that thinks hearing aids are a complete rip off. Even if your being supplied free by the NHS, we are still paying for them one way or another in our taxes. 
OK the NHS probably gets bulk buying discounts but the individual costs are extortionate. 

My 10 year old ones cost over €1200 and are mediocre at best. Several friends have paid up to £5000 a pair and initially say how improved they are. But soon after using them go back to the free NHS supplied ones.

My supplier suggested I avail myself for a free test and trial of later models. This I duly did and after a couple of weeks returned them as being no improvement on my old ones. Even though the cost would have been €950 EACH.!!!!
When I pointed out they were just as inefficient as the 10 year old ones, they said I would have to pay considerably more to appreciate some difference and improvement.! 

These basic miniature amplifiers have been around longer than the PC. Initially costing £2000+ for a modest personal computer. We have seen great progress in technology over the past 30 years and PCs have improved 100 times and now cost 10% in real terms.

But the old hearing aid is still in the stone age and the only thing that has really changed is the price. Even the modern digital and very expensive ones basically just amplify with some tweaks to filter out selected frequencies. All basic stuff when you compare them to a modern computer with voice recognition.

And I'm sure the old argument about quantity bringing the price of computers down also should apply to hearing aids as we are living longer with poor hearing.

For the same price of a modern digital miniature aid you can buy an all singing dancing phone, tablet AND PC together.

What a rip off.

Ray.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Ray, will you please speak up - I can hardly hear you :scrambleup:


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Only use mine when a Scot or Yank are in the tv programme alternatively use subtitles :wink: 

tony


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ray

The topic title made me wince - sounds painful  Visions of Van Gogh!

As for "But the old hearing aid is still in the stone age" - that could leave some people stone deaf :roll: 

But Ray, you are right there seems no reason why such things should cost that money when you think what a smart-phone can do these days for a fraction of the cost.

Geoff


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

TV is not a problem apart from the diction.
But group chat is especially with several couples.

Ray.


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Ray
I have worn NHS aids for close on 35 years!! (Started with one then 25 years or so ago was promoted to having two!!)

The digital aids are a bit more sophisticated but essentially this means they try to match the amplification to the frequencies of individual hearing loss rather than as under analog amplify everything.

Without the aids I stone deaf.

So whilst they are a great benefit no hearing aid will actually deliver natural sound so for example group discussions or restuarant settings will always be very difficult if not impossible for some people.

Now on to the cost of private aids - a complete rip off as you say. The reason I suspect is that the manufacturers have a captive and in some cases a vulnerable market. There is a reasonable number of older folk unhappy with NHS aids. Private suppliers play in this and offer utopia only for them to be disappointed later and often return to their NHS aids.


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

I have just been upgraded by NHS from one that was 5 years old - the difference is amazing. They have changed the algorithm to increase higher frequencies more, and done some sound-cancelling as well - the aid adapts to a range of different background sound levels - it takes about 20 seconds to adjust from noisy to quiet environment. 

I can now have a conversation with someone but clearly hear another conversation in the room, even if it is a bit noisy. Previously I had to lock onto the one conversation by turning my head in the talkers direction, but not any more.


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

I have never been unfortunate enough to need a hearing aid but I remember taking my Father to have one fitted. The staff told me that it was not so much the aid as the fitting that was important. Both the casting of the ear piece and the setting up of the aid.
Despite the care they took he never really got on with it but it did help his hearing particularly in a crowd.


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

Would also help if the NHS gave you 2 units, I was told I would have to go back to the doctor to get a second unit.

Andy


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

*hearing aids*

I was given hearing aids last March but have had the sound turned down. The improvement is much better but I still find the moulded fittings uncomfortable. I asked about having the cone fittings but my level of hearing is not compatible with these. There doesn't seem to be an answer to my problem at the moment unless, as you so rightly say, I pay an extortionate amount of money.


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## havingfun (Oct 31, 2007)

*hearing aid ripoff*

hi,

just by chance last year, found out about specsavers hearing aid clinic, oh should wear hearing aid, but we both went to nhs clinic, me too give support, i needed just one too enhance, oh needed quite powerful one,we both got one hearing aid, with big earpiece, oh could not get on with it at all, so when we came back last year, went back to nhs clinic,to be told nothing wrong with it,and not due another test,etc until jan.....we would be back on our travels by then, So decided to go to Boots, very helpful,special offer on,only £4000 for 2, small earpiece, oh said very comfortable, order now collect in 3 weeks, came home and david said,how much, i,m sure i,ve seen a better deal somewhere, so back on the internet, specsavers,half price, would come down to about £2900,still a lot but saving over a grand, couldent afford one,s for me at that price,but dident need it as much.......went to appointment, lady said if we already had nhs hearing aids we had come on the wrong day....if we got a letter from our doctor that we wanted to be retested,they do it for free,and if we needed new hearing aids they were free,same as Boots for £4000....so to cut a long story shorter, went for appointment,tested, hearing aids
tuned in,went in at 12.30 both of us out by 1.15 with hearing aids, couldent believe such good service.

mags

ps doctor dident want to give us a letter, said make an appointment with nhs, said prefered to try specsavers.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks for the post havingfun, but very difficult to read without punctuation, line breaks and upper case occasionally.

I was wondering about all the "oh"s until it eventually dawned on me you meant the OH!

Back on the subject of hearing aids - HOW MUCH?

Sheesh!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, thanks guys and galls.
My main point was the cost of technology. Computers and phones are marketed at a discerning public who have a choice so need to be competitive.
Hearing aids are aimed at poor ole burgers like me who need them. The aid manufacturers must operate some kind of cartel to keep the prices (and profits) artificially high.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ray

Maybe there is a business opportunity to have them made cheaper in the Far East and maketed through our own chain of shops

'Aids-R-Us' 

That could backfire - and would never be heard of again :roll: 

Geoff


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## nickoff (Oct 11, 2005)

I wear two NHS aids and am generally pleased with them. I do have some difficulty knowing in which direction some sounds are coming from. I.E. if out in the garden and a bird is chirping away I often as not look in the wrong direction to try to locate it. But at least I can now hear the sound whereas 2 or 3 years ago I would have missed it entirely. Also like others, it is hard work having a conversation with 2 or 3 people in a crowded room.
Something I did read a couple of years ago is that some young folk that now need hearing aids have learned to hack into their aids and fine tune them to their own personnel needs.

Nick.


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## Margaritaman (Aug 8, 2008)

NHS digital hearing aids are manufactured by the same companies that produce "private" hearing aids.
One reason that hearing aids cost more when dispensed privately is to help cover costs of testing,fitting the instrument,programming it, adjusting the programming if the wearer finds it not suitable and much more. All of which is "free" when the aid is dispensed by the NHS.
A hearing aid is just that an aid. For some depending the nature of the hearing loss, it is not a cure.

Hope this helps


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

Sandra has to wear them in both ears, she has an analogue one in her right ear and a digital one in her left ear. Her digital one from Amplivox rolled over and died and she was told they could not repair it anymore as they no longer can get the parts..

So we ended up in boots and she now has an all singing and dancing ones she picks up this Thursday, they even have a remote control to turn them up and down or click the loop symbol on the remote if there is the induction sign at any counter in banks and stuff.. They automatically change if on the telephone especially her mobile to stop squealing in her ear, they automatically pick up talking in any direction and background sounds can be reduced or turned up, the speakers even change direction to pick up talking behind her automatically, say if someone is sitting behind her when she is driving..

They have come on a long way in the 30 years she has been wearing them, and no, NHS ones aren't a patch on bought ones to the standard she has just bought, and she got 25% or round about that off the cost as a pensioner :wink: and we can pay with American Express card and get 1% cash back on that as well.

ray.


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## Margaritaman (Aug 8, 2008)

Wish Sandra well with her fitting on Thursday Ray. One of the big enemies of the electronics in hearing aids is condensation.This can be caused by moisture from the body or moving from a warm room to a cold environment. Boots may mention this when they explain how to care for the new aids. Some dispensers will supply a drying pot which contains a silica drying tablet. The aids are placed in the pot overnight and the moisture is absorbed. You can make your own using a small airtight container in which you place one of those silica gel packs you often get in new handbags or shoes etc. The pack can be placed on a radiator every so often to regenerate it !

Cheers Chris


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I do know about the remote control ones from Boots Ray.
My friend whose wife used to work at Boots also got a large discount but they still came to almost £2,500 the pair.

He said they were much better than the previous ones but he still needed to position himself in a corner or end of the table when dining with a group.

But for that money I would expect them to translate any foreign language as well.

Ray.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*hearing aids*

Well said Ray I can't believe the prices either! Compared with what you can get in a new laptop or tablet, which technically is far more sophisticated, is a joke.
As it happens I was badgered into going to Boots yesterday for a test, took 15 minutes and I have to go back next week for the follow up (hard sell?). I could not believe the prices mid range around £1500 - £2000, top range £2500 -£3000 depending on model and extras like remote controls. They have a special BOGOFF offer on at the moment but it still seems a lot of money for what is a small sound amplifier.
I have a NHS one which is quite old now and I have never worn it in public because I hate it so I just use it for watching TV when there are accents or muffled sound quality. So if I go for a new one I would want a discrete in the ear canal one which the NHS dont do, but of course they tend to be more expensive.
Trolling for info on the subject I did learn that the Boots centres are francises within the Boots stores which surprised me. It also struck me that all the large suppliers prices seem to be in the same range so I guess the 2 for 1 at Boots is the best but I will shop around.
Like you Ray I think we are being ripped off.

Graham


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Agreed Zappy.
I did try the micro aids but forund them no better on sound and very fiddley to adjust when in the ear.

There is much on the net about aids being so expensive. See here is just one..................

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-06/why-do-hearing-aids-cost-more-than-laptops

And you can see it's mostly excess profits and a small amount of 'professional' attention.

Ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

I did forgot to mention they are expensive if you bought one, but the other post reminded they are two for one, so along with the discounts, the cash back on the American Express card you can get a top of the range with all the whistles and dials, and the two can be for one ear or one for both ears for less than you can for one ear elsewhere, you would be a mug not to get one/two :wink: ..

Why on earth should anybody with a deafness problem not get the best product that gives the most help to their disability to help them live a normal life beats me, and allow themselves to be influenced by such a negative OP seems daft.

ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ray, it's the rip off profits I am banging on about.
Glasses have come down since online and high street shops have increased competition.

A pair of glass's in France will run upwrds of £650 for the same things I can get online for £199. This is due to most people having insurance and they don't care about the cost. Eventually France will have to join the internet shopping revolution.

OK if you have money to burn.

Ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

> raynipper"]Ray, it's the rip off profits I am banging on about.
> Glasses have come down since online and high street shops have increased competition.
> 
> A pair of glass's in France will run upwrds of £650 for the same things I can get online for £199. This is due to most people having insurance and they don't care about the cost. Eventually France will have to join the internet shopping revolution.
> ...


Hey up.

I take your point, so! ..

Lets say you were blind. folk have every sympathy with you as it is obvious, if you are deaf folk just take the mickey and have a laugh maybe good heartedly as you miss parts of conversation so you stop interacting to stop looking foolish, with the family she just laughs it off, but the frustration is in her face...

If you are blind and there were some magic glasses that enabled you to see something, you would spend anything you had to make sure your loved one could see something again, no matter how little it was or how much it cost to enable it to happen.. But folk who can't hear have a stigma around them as nobody would tell you had an earing problem unless it was pointed out to them.

Take the other day in the bank Sandra and I had to sort out the scrote who had been into our cards which entailed changing our bank accounts, the personal banker was asking questions to both of us, she was nodding her head as though she was following everything, I asked her "Did you get that" and she gave me a blank look, so I said to the personal banker can you speak louder as my wife is deaf and she can not hear you..

I would never have had to say that if she was blind and asked to sign a form.. So for Sandra to be able to hear as good as she can she will have whatever it takes for her to be able to do that, so long as whatever it is works, even at whatever profit margin the company private or NHS makes, if it helps her it is worth it.. Oh and I won't have to put up with the bloody thing whistling at the side of me as she has taken it out to go for a shower, and she hasn't turned it off right :roll: ..

ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, agree with everything you say Ray.
I am thankful that it's only my hearing that has deteriorated. And yes glass's can be a fashion appendage but a hearing aid just makes you OLD.!!!

I guess I'm not so bad that spending thousands knowing I am being ripped off is still a choice I have. I will keep my old but functional cheap (€950) aids until I find spending thousands more is worth it. 
All our phones have loud or 'hands free' buttons but I do have problems listening to the French catching some inflection or accent that my wife can hear. But we are a good double act as I can say more than her but she can hear more.

You mention the shower. Don't moan as when I first decided to get an aid I bought one off the US E-Bay for $120. Paid €49 for a mould and it worked well for several years until a change in my habits resulted in my taking a shower with it in.!!!
Didn't work too well after that and the aid shop here was only interested in selling me new aids.

Ray.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*Hearing Aids*

Well I got mine from Specsavers last week. I went with the preconception that I would not wear NHS ones but what do you know? The Audiologist was first rate and obviously knew his stuff and convinced me to try them. Well 4 days in and I am more than impressed I can hear and understand conversations in different situations. They are Siemens and actually'talk' to each other to compensated for wherever the source of the sound is coming from. The TV is great I can actually understand accents and the volume is set 50% lower than before so it don't bother the OH. They are behind the ear type but are quite discreet and are almost covered by my specs and hair. I was preparing myself for several hundred pounds but the audiologist said they were as could as hearing aids costing almost £2000. so I think a bargain.

Graham


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

Sandra picked hers up from Boots Thursday gone, we went into the earing aid room and sat down, the guy said I have got your new aids so lets fit them.

Sandra sat down as he fit them in her ears, he told her he was going to set them up for her.. She sat there as he hung an electronic gizmo round her neck, he said OK I will turn them on for you, he pressed a key on his computer and the look of surprise on Sandra's face as they kicked in.. She said WOW! she could even hear the public in the main shopping part outside the room..

He set them up with the computer to balance them to as near as possible to normal hearing, she doesn't have to do anything as everything is automatic. The proof of the pudding was Yesterday in the site club, it was our fishing club prize giving, she could hear everything, folk talking to her even behind her, and when the singer came on he was very loud but the aids just turned themselves down to a comfortable level automatically but while we were all having to get close to who we were talking to, to make our self heard, she could hear without having to do that, even with all the racket all around her.

She is sat watching Strictly and the telly is at a normal level, it was worth it for me not to have the telly blaring out :wink: .

The only way she can turn them up or down is via the remote control she can carry, which allows her multiple choices achieved by how many clicks as it scrolls through the functions that cover just about any situation she may come across, although the basic functions cover most things well, like the above poster the earing aids in each ear talk to one another to give the best results..

ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Well I am very happy that Graham and Sandra have had such positive results with their new aids.
But am I right in thinking your aids were free on NHS Graham? Although you got them from Specsaves?

Also I would like to hear from you both after a few months that you are still happy with them.

Ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

> raynipper"]Well I am very happy that Graham and Sandra have had such positive results with their new aids.
> But am I right in thinking your aids were free on NHS Graham? Although you got them from Specsaves?
> 
> Also I would like to hear from you both after a few months that you are still happy with them.
> ...


Hey up.

I don't need a few months, Sandra has got her life back she can hear again ..

Her condition that has made her deaf, from the first sign when she was 26 and has become progressively worse into her thirty's where she has stabilised at its present condition is caused by the small bones in her ears have sort of fused together, an hereditary gene in her family, her younger brother has now got the same problem.. 
He was the bass player in our group and could sing great harmonies even with the racket we were making. It turned out he was going deaf with the same condition in one ear, and it had the same effect as folk singers when they put a finger in their ear to hear the sound they are singing through their skull, try it you can hear what you are singing clearly.

In both their conditions the inner ear is normal apart from the bones, but an operation would not be a success as they would both probably suffer from bad tinnitus if they went ahead with it, so Sandra decided that it would not be worth the risk....

ray.


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## nickoff (Oct 11, 2005)

He was the bass player in our group and could sing great harmonies even with the racket we were making. It turned out he was going deaf with the same condition in one ear, and it had the same effect as folk singers when they put a finger in their ear to hear the sound they are singing through their skull, try it you can hear what you are singing clearly.

ray.[/quote]

Can we all stop singing remove our fingers from our lug holes yet? 

Nick.


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## havingfun (Oct 31, 2007)

*hearing aid ripoff*

hi ray,

as my earlier post,rather rambling i must admit,

we went first off all to the nhs at the hospital,very longwinded and only one hearing aid.

no use whatso ever to bernard,big mould hurt his ear, and dident seem to help at all,and months to wait to get another appointment.

friend went to boots, paid almost £4000, but lives out of the country, and only had a couple of weeks to sort it,she was loud in praise.

we went to boots as well, got quite a lot of good deals, but still a lot of money, looked on the internet,and specsavers was doing 2 for1,so tried there,

told that as we already had hearing aids from the nhs,and we only wanted an upgrade, to go to the doctor,and get a letter for a test, same hearing aids as boots offered, but free...and in and out in less than an hour.

we are lucky that we only need aids to help clarify, so maybe that was why they were the same as boots.

that was 5 months ago and still going great, just need to get bernard to put them in...........

mags


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*hearing*

hi. I find the nos the best,but depends on your post code.I have been for tests for the implants ,no good for for me but different p c ,but can supply me with better ones than mine,which where new in jan this year.have you tried the box for under your tv ,bosh make one they are very good, also another one what you adjust called canton what I have Kenny ps think I have put a few dots in we are. not all good at english


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