# Winterising a motorhome



## 90951

Hi All

I am hoping to use my Dethleffs coachbuilt van this winter for skiing and I need some advice on how to make it capable of surviving the freezing temperatures in the Alpes. 

I know that Dethleffs have a winterise option on new purchases but my local dealer says this cannot be retrofitted to older (1995) vans. So I would like to try doing it myself. 

So far I have found some sugestions about getting heat tape for the water pipes and the insulating the pipes. Does anyone know where I can get this HEAT TAPE, is it expensive, can I power it via the leisure battery or whether this is not the best solution. ? Is there a possibility of melting plastic water pipes ?

I am also going to insulate the floor with polystyrene blocks. I aim to cut it so that I can wedge it in place. has anybody tried this and if so have you any advice as to how to make sure the stuff stays in place ? 

I also was a US web site mentioned shrink to fit plastic that can be used to better insulate the windows. Has anybody heard of this stuff ? If so do you have any advice on where to get it and how to install it ? Is there a better option ?

So basically I need to try and insulate the van really and although I have heard a few ideas Im not really sure what is the best way to proceed. Therfore any advice on insulating the van would be great. 

I hope someone can help me on these matters.

Thanks 

P.s can anyone that has tried using there van for winter camping/skiing recommend good campsites with hook up and good facilities


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## peejay

Hi monster1,

Any exterior water pipes are going to be a problem, you can insulate them but this wont totally stop them from freezing, the most foolproof way is for all pipework to run inside the vehicle and I would look to see if this is possible first.

The same applies to water tanks both fresh and waste, lagging them is not really the solution as, if they do eventually freeze them they will take twice as long to thaw.
Most European vans have the fresh tank inside the vehicle so this shouldn't be a problem in your case, but many have the waste tank underslung at the rear, the best solution to this is to leave the drain tap open on site and a good old bucket slung underneath and emptied regularly, much less hassle if the bucket freezes that the whole tank!

Fitting heating elements to underslung tanks along with lagging and the heat tape you mention to exterior pipes (although I've never heard of heat tape) is a possibility, but this would only be successful if they were always on, you'd have to be very careful off site for example parking up for a few hours.

I wouldn't have thought it necessary to add poly blocks to the floor but it certainly wouldn't hurt and as you say you'd have to make sure they were adequately fitted.

I presume your window are the plastic double glazed type and if so there should be no need to further insulate them, drawing the blinds and curtains at night should suffice.

Some futher tips ;

Leave locker doors open overnight, the heat will then enter preventing condensation.

Fit exterior silverscreens and if its really cold interior silverscreens to cab windows.

When on mains elecs lift the cable every day to prevent it freezing to the ground or getting buried in snow.

You will use loads of gas for heating so consider purchasing refillable bottles if you,ve only got a small locker. Blown air would make the interior heat more even and prevent cold spots. If you've got ultraheat or some other form of mains heating be aware that continental sites often have low amp hook ups hence more reliability on gas.

Snow chains and a folding shovel are a must.

If you're considering using non mains aires, sites make sure you've got a good healthy leisure battery or consider fitting another in tandem to boost your amperage.

When parked up for long periods leave vehicle in gear, chock the wheels and leave handbrake off if possible, prevents rear drums freezing on.

There's loads of other info I cant remember at the moment (it's me age) but I'm sure someone else will add to the list.

We've done a bit of winter camping in the vosges region of France and in and around Chamonix, there are many sites and aires suitable for winter camping as long as you're properly prepared.

Chamonix, 'camping les rosieres' www.campinglesrosieres.com and 'camping les duex glaciers' We've stayed at the former and can recommend it but not the latter although heard good reports.

If you fancy some snow closer to the ferries, try the vosges region around Gerardmer, theres a municipal site 'domain de longemer' at xonrupt longemer and another at la bresse just up the road 'camping le haut des bluches', i can recommend both.

Happy travels

Pete.


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## eurajohn

Heat trace tape is commonly used in industry and is readily available.

Not really sure whether or not would be any good on a camper as it wouldn't be a viable battery powered solution (like any heating application)

John.


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## 91929

*Winterising MHome*

 Yes Heater tape is used in industry. We used to get it in 100 yd rolls (1960's). 
Consider a fish tank heater in the water tanks (both) met some people winter 2003 with frozen inboard tanks in a continental built factory winterised van. temp -5C at midday Nr Lyon {we were travelling to Spain & had water in small (2Gal) bottles inside the van. 
In Austria they build wooden skirting round the van from floor to groung to restrict the wind flow underneath. They were turning up in September to claim a site for the ski season & stayed put. They addapted the hose to the Gas {propane} cylinders so that they could use the large {49 kg ?? cylinders {about 3 - 4ft high}}

Hope it helps PeteC


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## 88724

Regardless of whether they are double glazed or not the biggest heat loss from most vans is via windows.

The film you are talking about is bascally Cling film, this gives an extra thermal barrier, not pretty but effective nonetheless.

More info required really, are you going to be staying on hook up ?

are the Tanks internal ?

1995 roof vents include permenant ventilation (new ones dont now!) if you can seal these with gaffa Tape it will certainly cut down on a big heat loss, be careful about sealing yourself in !! Some ventilation is neccesary for your continued life (breathing is pretty important too !

Check Vehicle door seals replace the rubbers if needed.

Cab doors have air vents seal em up.

Fish tank heaters good idea if you are on hook up otherwise a non starter due to consumption, diverting some blown heat from a gas fired heater is possiblefor fresh tank, for waste tank leave open and use an outside "bucket"

Silver screen external and internal quilted definately a good idea.

Biggest Draft is usually from around the fridge, these are very often fitted incorrectly (by most major manufacturers !) have a look and seal the rear of the fridge from the interior.

*Gas Change to propane, this stuff stays gaseous to very low minus figures, butane stops working at around 0 degrees and thats not what you need at all no heat and cold stopping the heater from working.*

George

[/b]


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## Malc

Cling film or similar is not recommended for Poly windows, in use the film produces a crackling effect on the polycarbonate. This came about after makers of covers advised owners to cover windows with the same prior to fitting cover, after several instances of cracking effect they investigated and withdrew the advice.
Malc


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## 88724

Hi 

At no point should it touch the plastic of the window, so I cant understand what you mean it should be fitted on wall and cover the "hole" where the window sits.

This gives a trapped air insulation pocket.


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## 88790

CAK do an American 12v heating elements that just stick to the bottom of the freshwater tank and are thermostatically operated.

Worth getting their catalogue to check it out.

I have fitted one, can't say if it works yet, for obvious reasons, but it has remained stuck on firmly for the last 11 months.

Hope this helps"

John :wink:


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## 88781

Spotted this on a RV website, a lot of what is written can be applied to our own usage.

Winterizing and storing your motorhome
After summer vacations and fall rallies, many motorhomers rest their vehicles during winter. To keep the motorhome in good working order and protect it from freezing temperatures, preparing it for storage is necessary.

Any motorhome owner can purchase the necessary materials to winterize their vehicle, according to Charles Christy, national service manager for Workhorse Custom Chassis. "If you can clean your kitchen, you can winterize your vehicle,” he said, adding that the entire winterizing process can take less than a day for one person to complete.

As a first step, Christy recommends that motorhome owners review all of their owners manuals -- the motorhome manufacturer’s, the chassis manufacturer’s and the appliances manufacturers’ -- for vehicle-specific winterizing instructions.

Water tanks
Drain and blow out water lines to prevent damage to the motorhome’s water system. The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) suggests draining the fresh water tank by turning on the hot and cold valves and letting them run. Once the fresh water tank is empty, drain the holding tank(s).

Next, clear the lines with air pressure not exceeding 40 to 50 p.s.i. (open all faucet valves and hold the toilet valve open to allow water to clear from the regulator). Clear the lines by using blow-out plugs, which typically cost $3 to $5, along with small unit air compressors designed for tires and air mattresses. The air compressors at neighborhood service stations also will work.

As a final step, pump non-toxic antifreeze (see owners manual for proper specifications) through the entire water system to keep any remaining water from freezing. (Remember to shut off the hot water tank bypass to prevent antifreeze from filling the tank.) Never use automotive antifreeze.

To pump the antifreeze through the water system: Disconnect the water supply line from the water pump; connect a temporary supply line to the water pump and put the other end of the line in the antifreeze container; start the water pump. Once antifreeze begins to pump through the water system, close all open valves.

It's also a good idea to fill all drain traps with antifreeze. Refer to the coach owner's manual for specific instructions.

In many gas-powered motorhomes, the oil and oil filter should be changed before winter storage. This can prevent acids from accumulating in the oil and corroding the engine bearings.

Disconnect/recharge batteries
Surprisingly, batteries can freeze at temperatures as high as 32 degrees Fahrenheit, which can lead to permanent damage, Christy said. To avoid battery problems, the negative battery cable should be disconnected on vehicles that will not be driven within a 30-day period.

Even disconnected batteries can lose their charge, so they should be checked every four months and recharged as necessary. If the green dot on an AC Delco battery is not visible, then it must be recharged. To prevent overload or damage to electrical components, the ignition switch should be in the "off" position when connecting battery cables or a battery charger.

If your motorhome is equipped with an auxiliary generator, read its manual for winter storage guidelines.

Park and pay attention
When parking the motorhome for the winter, be sure the vehicle is not too close to trees, where it could be damaged by tree sap, bird droppings or falling branches. If parking in a rural area, remove high weed growth, which affects paint by attracting insects or causing stains. Park on a level surface or with the front chassis higher than the rear if a level surface is not available.

It's also a good idea to top-off the fuel tank to avoid condensation. Add a fuel stabilizer to keep the fuel from breaking down and leaving deposits. Diesel and gasoline fuel stabilizers are available at most auto-parts stores.

Clean it, close it and cover it
Before covering the motorhome, clean the interior and remove all perishable food from the cabinets and refrigerator. Turn off the refrigerator, making sure the circuits are off, and leave the refrigerator door open. Remove all clothing and bedding to prevent mildew. Close all windows, and pull the shades and close the blinds if desired.

Make sure the regulator on the propane cylinder is covered, and tape the furnace vents. Ensure that the range hood is closed, and clean the rooftop air conditioner filters. If the motorhome is stored outside, it should be covered. Opening the roof vents a little may help to reduce moisture accumulation. If not covered, rinse, wash and wipe horizontal surfaces at least once per week to remove accumulations that settle on the flat surfaces.

Exterior
Check the tires and keep them inflated to the recommended tire pressure. The sun’s ultraviolet rays can cause tires to dry rot. Tire covers are available from RV supply stores. Or, cut pieces of plywood to fit under the wheel wells and stand them against the side of each tire.

Secure all caps to prevent water, snow and dirt from entering the engine.

Make a list of the winterizing tasks and refer to it so the vehicle can be quickly prepared for the new season when warm temperatures return in the spring.

P.S The blowing out procedure mentioned can be done with an airline at your local filling station! M&D


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## 88724

Hi MandyandDave

I think you have mis-read the original post, the chap wants to be out and about in (possibly) sub zero temperatures, not store the van for the winter. Good post though :lol: even if slightly off-topic

George


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## 88781

Misread is an under statement!  :roll: 

Dave


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## 88724

Hi Dave

Dont worry we have all done it, I once wrote a massive reply based on quickly misreading the original post, 2 second scan read and about an hour making a brilliant, but totally irrelevant post in reply to the question I thought he had asked :wink: 

George


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## peejay

Yep,

Been there, done that....


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## musicbus

If you are running truma Mk 11 boiler system you can get a mains heating collar which will allow you to use your campsite plug in to run your hot water and heating. You are paying for the power anyway!!

cheers

barry


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## 89539

Hi monster1,

We spent 5 days in February camping at La Bresse and can certainly recommend it. Our 'van is not winterised at all, and we only had one day where the fresh water froze. We will probably go for longer next year, and I may try and get the fresh water inboard before then. Keeping warm was never a problem. (Average night time temps -2 to -4 deg C).

There were many 'vans just wild camping in the ski parking area, and the camp site will allow you to replenish fresh/dump waste and charge batteries (for a small fee). Very friendly folk who run the campsite. The skiing was great since we are all novices.

Let me know if you need any info.


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## Anonymous

We've spent the last 2 winters wild camping in Chamonix in our 1999 Benimar. It's not very winterised but we've been cosy down to -21C.

I'd second most of the advice here, but here are a few more tips:

I lagged my (outside) drains with pipe lagging but it doesn't make much difference. Try to park on a slight slope so water doesn't sit in them. Around -10C the u bend freezes and then we put antifreeze or salt down them.

For the windows I made some extra screens from 2 layers of the polystyrene/tinfoil laminate made to put down the back of radiators. Seems to help judging by the condensation on the windows... I Also managed to glue a couple of layers inside the doors which maybe helps a bit.

I wouldn't worry about the floor - it always seems warm to us. In fact keeping warm isn't really a problem though we do rip through the gas at times (RECORD 13KG in >4 days). Condensation is much more of a hassle.

The other thing to suffer is your leisure battery. We've got 110ah but it doesn't give a quarter of that and we end up running the generator for an hour or two every day. You can forget heating anything with electric.

Chris


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## 90951

Hi Everybody

I just wanted to say thanks for all the responses to my question. I have found all the information very helpful and hope to put some (although not all) suggestions into practice. 

When I finally do get to the snow I will make a point of everything that works and will let you know of my experiences. Mebay I will be in a position to offer some avdice of my own one day. 

Thanks again and happy camping

Monster


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## Brambles

musicbus said:


> If you are running truma Mk 11 boiler system you can get a mains heating collar which will allow you to use your campsite plug in to run your hot water and heating. You are paying for the power anyway!!


Hi Musicbus, Have you any idea where these are obtainable, I have done a search but failed miserably. I have been pondering over how to add electric heating to my Truma boiler for a while.

Jon.


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## 93795

Hi, I know this thread has gone quiet for a few weeks but I'd like to add a little that I don't think was mentioned. One of the biggest sources of cold in a motorhome is caused by draughts through the ventilation grilles in the cab. You should close all of them when you are parked up in a cold place. I have stayed for weeks in the Alps and the Pyrenees in winter with snow all around and I have never had anything freeze. I always stay on campsites so that I can connect to the mains. I rarely use the gas for heating the van or the water, I find that a small fan heater ( 1kW ) is quite adequate and as most sites are 6 or more amps I can also run the TV while keeping warm. Another obvious source of cold is the windscreen so it shpuld always be insulated with a silver screen or similar. I use an external one mainly because it was supplied with the MH when I bought it. A lot of people use the internal ones and I agree that they look so much nicer and tidier, but I understand that they create a lot of condenstion on the windows. I have heard that using both is a lot better for retaining the heat.
Phil.


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## 88860

Hi Mandy & Dave, you may have miss read the topic but it all the same makes great interesting reading, in my case it was just the information I was looking for.


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## Brambles

Hi Everyone,

I have an overcab bunk coachbuilt and I originally did not have curtains to close of the cab. Just the internal silver screens. After fitting a thick curtain at back of cab, made from some cotton throws I bought cheap in ASDA I found the MHome much cosier and condensation was much reduced on windscreen. I also now on a frosty night hang an extra woollen travel rug from the edge of the bed down bwhnd the front seats. It makes it even cosier, except when having to reach into the cab for something -- brrrrrrr, it was freezing.
Also discovered the door warped slightly in the cold, the inside being warm and ouside being cold, The toggle thingies were not pulling it closed tight enough so with a little mod of added strips of plastic under the toggle catches the door pulled completely agianst the seal in cold weather.
Jon


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## nukeadmin

there is some excellent information in this thread, any objections if i collate it into a list format and reproduce it in the faq section ?


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## MOTORHOMER

nukeadmin said:


> there is some excellent information in this thread, any objections if i collate it into a list format and reproduce it in the faq section ?


Good idea Dave

Motorhomer


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## Bazbro

You can easily and very cheaply make your own 12volt heater wire, to wrap round vulnerable pipes/outlets.

Order from Maplins; find it here:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2196&TabID=1&source=15&WorldID=&doy=15m11

I have successfully used it to make two heated jackets for motorcycling. I haven't a clue as to the current drain, (I'm not "electronically-aware"!!!) but I'm sure that there's a boffin out there who will explain - simply, please! I believe that the drain is only about that of an indicator bulb.

I used lengths of about three feet (discovered by experimentation) to give wire that is hot-to-the-touch. Longer wire=cooler wire. The wire can't be soldered (not by me, anyway) but I crimped it. I encased it in shrink-wrap tubing for safety, but if you're going to tape it to plastic, that probably won't be necessary.

Food for thought?

Barry


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## 88724

Hi

Wattage is 3.6 watts per metre

Current Drain .3 Amp per metre

If you are interested in how the answer arises, feed the 2 known figures into the calculator shown here

Very roughly, but 12v for battery power and 40 Ohms per metre.

Roughly 6 lengths at 3 foot = 21w (indicator bulb)

On hook up no problem at all, trying to figure out whether this is a goer for wild camping !

George


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## nukeadmin

ok all the info has been collated and converted into a Guide in our guides section on the left.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Winterising

Any more information that i can add ?

Has anyone got any pictures that are relevant as well, i.e. motorhomes deep in snow, buckets below waste points in snow, that sort of thing ?

Oh btw George I like that calculator, I could code something similar for MHF to make it easier for our members to work out inverter sizing etc.

What paramaters should i be asking for ?
I thought of something along the lines of the spreadsheet for power in our downloads section which was added by benandlizzie but an online version instead, i.e. asking for power consumptions for typical items within a mh such as tv, laptop, kettle etc etc and then displaying the best size inverter to go for, any comments ???


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## 88724

Hi Nuke

Joint copyright :idea: agreed? 

Needs a few seperate calculators that work in harmony, working out which invertor is fairly easy only a few simple rules to follow.

Then it needs to work out the AH of average usage, between charges

Which then dictates the Battery Bank size.

Which then needs a recharge time and ability ie would it be recharged via genny for 1 or two hours a day (this dictates the charger size, but also as a bearing on battery bank size (creates a circular reference so needs to be sperate calculation) or would 1 day per week on site do it (smaller charger bigger bank)

George


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## nukeadmin

ok lets start simple, 

What exact fields will the user have to enter firstly

and then what calculations need to be carried out on the data ?


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## 93795

I made up a very simple chart some time ago to give approximate consumption for various items that I use from time to time. It's probably not 100% accurate but close enough for my ny needs. Others may find it useful as a guide.
APPLIANCE	WATTS	AMPS(UK)	OHMS	AMPS(EU)
For 240v For 220v

Battery Charger	185	0.8	311	0.7
Coffee Maker	800	3.3	72	3.1
Digibox	40	0.2	1,440	0.2
Fridge Mains Op	85	0.4	678	0.3
Fridge 12v Op	96	8.0	1.50	8.0
Grill	750	3.1	77	2.9
Hotplate (Both)	2000	8.3	29	7.6
Hotplate (One)	1000	4.2	58	3.8
Iron	1000	4.2	58	3.8
Kettle (High)	2200	9.2	26	8.4
Kettle (Low)	750	3.1	77	2.9
Laptop	450	1.9	128	1.7
Oven (Both)	1380	5.8	42	5.3
Oven (Lower)	650	2.7	89	2.5
Oven (Upper)	650	2.7	89	2.5
Printer	25	0.1	2,304	0.1
Spinner	325	1.4	177	1.2
Television	33	0.1	1,745	0.1
Toaster	550	2.3	105	2.1
Vacuum	600	2.5 96	2.3
Water Heater	690	2.9	83	2.6

the 2nd line of the chart seems to have slipped to the left the voltages should be under the amps columns and some of the other tabs have moved to the left, weird? I hope you can see what should go where.
Phil.


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## 88724

Hi 

For Sizing invertor selection.

List of the biggest items that will be run at the same time

Col1 Col2 Radio buttons

Name Watts Used at same time tick


The calculations are: the sum of all used at same time compared with the highest single item in col 2 and the invertors continuos rating needs to be the higher of the two numbers. If you are using Sterling this is the size invertor you need. We could add an answers box that showed the size needed in other manufacturers, with :


Invictron, Nikkai ie times correct answer by 1.5 they are the only two I have to hand

It would need a guide beside it ie Microwave you need to find the Rated amps INPUT not the quoted cooking power, there are a few other quirks that need explaining

A guide to compressors and why they need extra Surge (mostly) surge will be covered automatically most brands included double the rating but people do need to check.

A guide to where a Pure sine wave is needed (in reality there are very few items that MUST have Pure most will be OK with Quasi/Modified)

Next the battery and charging system required it could be based on a rough calculation, if the initial questions include how long each item used per day as an extra column, two further questions would decide the optimum battery bank and charger size.

You follow all that so far ?

George

Are we agreed on joint copyright for resulting work (ie the online calculator)?


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## nukeadmin

lol i think i have created a big coding hole here 

Its all do-able George

as for the joint copyright, may i ask why you desire this ?


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## 88724

Kudos

Fame 

Riches beyond our wildest dreams.

to see © George Matthews and Nuke Admin

Nah as you know, I have my own selfbuild site and would obviously like a copy  

George


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## peejay

Hi Dave,

there are a few snowy type photos in my gallery, you're welcome to use them, here's one.....










pete.


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## BERTHA

*Winter Motorhoming*

I know Summer is just getting underway but having just got in to this came at a considerable expense we really want to use our MH throughout the year.

We have a 747 and although the press is positive about the double floor etc as anyone here used the same or similar MH during the winter months and how cold did it get?

Many thanks
B


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## 89074

*Re: Winter Motorhoming*

Lets face it most of us here don't have vans that have already been winterised.

Usually the water tanks are underneath so they have to be taken inside.

This is what I am faced with.

I have a Autohomes Highwayman.

I don't mind the waste water tank staying underneath I can just keep the tap open into a bucket but I have to bring the fresh water tank inside.

Problem is finding the space for it. With kids, you need storage and even though we have a lot of cupboards we tend to fill them all!

I thought as we don't really use the basin in the shower area, if I strip that out I could have quite a sizeable tank in the space.

I am sure I could do it myself but don't have the confidence. Are CAK the best people to go to for this type of work?

tweenie


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## Grizzly

Quote from mandyanddave's earlier post :
Surprisingly, batteries can freeze at temperatures as high as 32 degrees Fahrenheit, which can lead to permanent damage, Christy said. To avoid battery problems, the negative battery cable should be disconnected on vehicles that will not be driven within a 30-day period. 
Unquote

I didn't know that. Our battery is vulnerable right now if this is so ( outside temp now -2deg C, battery in a flimsy outside locker). Does anyone have experience of this or are US leisure batteries different ?

G


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## peedee

nukeadmin said:


> ok all the info has been collated and converted into a Guide in our guides section on the left.
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Winterising
> 
> Any more information that i can add ?
> 
> Has anyone got any pictures that are relevant as well, i.e. motorhomes deep in snow, buckets below waste points in snow, that sort of thing ?


I have posted some pics HERE You are welcome to use any of them you think suitable.

FYI bubblewrap insulation round the freshwater tank and foam pipe insulation is only good for temperatures above -4C. Below this it does not stop the water from freezing.

peedee


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## sallytrafic

Grizzly said:


> Quote from mandyanddave's earlier post :
> Surprisingly, batteries can freeze at temperatures as high as 32 degrees Fahrenheit, which can lead to permanent damage, Christy said. To avoid battery problems, the negative battery cable should be disconnected on vehicles that will not be driven within a 30-day period.
> Unquote
> 
> I didn't know that. Our battery is vulnerable right now if this is so ( outside temp now -2deg C, battery in a flimsy outside locker). Does anyone have experience of this or are US leisure batteries different ?
> 
> G


I think you are all right at 50% charge the freezing point is about -25 deg C. at 100% about -40C. Just don't expect much cranking current at those sorts of temperatures.

Regards Frank


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## 95119

*Winter Camping*

Hi Y'awl,

I read with interest all the posts regarding winter camping. I am taking our Hymer 680 B (1998) down to the Alps in November for the winter season. In preparation, we camped for two weeks in temps down to -25 deg last winter. We have wild camped in the Alps but only for a day or two. My principle experience is on camp sites in Austria.

The first thing you notice when camping in Austria is just how many caravan and motor homers take advantage of the excellent camp sites. You will find that most ski area's in Austria have all year round sites. We chose sites which offered both electric and gas hook ups. The gas takes away the fear of running. In terms of heat I can honestly say we were never cold in the motor home. Yes, our Hymer is fully winterised with only the grey tank outside the vehicle and yes, we implemented many of the suggestions previously mentioned. We turned the gas heating off during the day and disconnected the cabin thermostat to prevent the truma dumping the fresh water.

Austrian camp sites offer outstanding facilities in terms of shower, steam room, sauna and drying rooms. They even provide ski lockers for your skis and boots which is a big plus. The result of all this is that you use surprising little water. In our case flushing the toilet and water for boiling pasta was just about our only requirement. We always use bottled water for tea and coffee wherever we are. We soon learnt to have a watering can for topping up the fresh water tank and a bucket for the waste (the waste tank is always open)

Invest in a good quality duvet and don't expect to walk around in your y fronts. An additional sweater can save pounds in gas heating. Also, if your bed is over your garage you may have to exclude the cold air around the mattress.

If you intend to stay for any length of time you will make a significant difference to the heat retained in the camper van by excluding the air flow beneath the van. I use 35mm polycarbonate panels but you can use wood or a PVC skirt. We have also invested in a winter awning. They are not available in the UK but widespread in Germany and Austria. This not only gives us an additional room to take off shoes, clothes etc it also makes a significant difference to the heat retention of the van. We also have a polypropylene floor to the awning, again not available in the UK but widely used in Germany.

Finally the cost. In austria with a ski lift just a few minutes walk away you can pay from 15 euros to 25 euros per day for the pitch. Gas and electric are pay as you go. Last season I paid 200 euros "all in" for seven days stay at a top Austrian resort. Seasonal pitches are like rocking horse droppings and we have waited several years for a place to come up. Expect to pay between 1000 and 1600 euros for a pitch (1st Oct to 31st April) plus gas and electric. We even have a private bathroom with our pitch.

Having just returned from a five week trip to Spain I cant wait for the winter season. True, my wife and I are keen skiers however, if its a sense of freedom, adventure and oneness with our planet you are looking for, a few weeks in the mountains is simply the best.

Cooder


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## Grizzly

monster1 said:


> Hi All
> 
> I am hoping to use my Dethleffs coachbuilt van this winter for skiing and I need some advice on how to make it capable of surviving the freezing temperatures in the Alpes.
> IP.s can anyone that has tried using there van for winter camping/skiing recommend good campsites with hook up and good facilities


The latest edition of Practical Motorhome magazine - December 2006- has an article on winterising your motorhome, handy tips while using it and reviews of various campsites in ski resorts.

G


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## 98395

I have to say, I am a bit ervous about going Skiing in the MH

We have a 2004 Swift Suntor. The fresh water tank is already inside and all the pipes are internal. We have just rturned from a long weekend in Wlaes where it was cold. Obviously not as cold as ski resorts, but we were happy enough.
I am on the lookout for external screens and also covers for the gas bottles. Trying to think what else I can do....


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## peejay

Hi Paul,

With your internal water tank and pipes, a plentiful supply of propane gas to keep you toasty warm and a set of snowchains and a shovel just in case, along with a good sense of humour and an adventurous spirit and you'll be just fine.

pete


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## vicdicdoc

Brambles said:


> musicbus said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are running truma Mk 11 boiler system you can get a mains heating collar which will allow you to use your campsite plug in to run your hot water and heating. You are paying for the power anyway!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Musicbus, Have you any idea where these are obtainable, I have done a search but failed miserably. I have been pondering over how to add electric heating to my Truma boiler for a while.
> 
> Jon.
Click to expand...

I've just today got a reply from Truma - if its model number C3400 - its no longer produced and the heating collar is not available . . . if its C3402 then your in luck [I'm not  ]


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## Yeti

Hi there monster
with regard to the windows problem, we had a renault holdsworth some time ago, without double glazing, I went to B&Q and bought some once only film to cover the windows
It consists of a roll of double sided tape and a roll of clear cling film type material, the tape is applied to the window suround and the film applied, heat from a hair drier is applied to the film and it shrinks to fit, cracking idea and it works !
The down side being that you must be careful not it puncture the film, although it is relatvely robust and the tape can be a pain to remove neatly.
The question of 12v heat tape/cable is a good one but 240v is readily available from electrical suppliers or refridgeration engineers (its used on door srounds), or conversly
Get yourslf down to the scrapyard, find a car with heated seats and remove the elements (12v low wattage. already insulated , cheap and effective) 
When over nighting on the road in winter I put anti freeze in the waste tank
Cracking site in St Moritz (Samedan) called Punta Muragl
Good luck
Hope this will help you a little


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## davieboy1956

Hi. Excellent advice from obviously experienced winter motorhomers - wish I had read this before going away last month!! Actually travelled to Turkey via Rumania and Bulgaria .Very cold at -13degrees some nights. On the way back travelled through Austria + Southern Germany and again it was absolutely Baltic! What surprises me from the captions above is the comparative lack of freezing pipes experienced by the contributors. Our pipes froze frequently and (probably wrongly)- we kept heating up the boiler so that warm water was omnipresent( REALLY CONCERNED TO READ THAT THIS WAS INADVISABLE!) . Have returned home and fingers crossed - the only negative identified is a water leak from a pipe which I suspect runs from the shower. Certainly there seems no damage to the boiler but from the blog above this appears to be very good fortune more than anything else! Am amazed that some others didn't experience similar frozen pipe problems especially when temps were as low as -10 degrees as in one instance quoted above. 

Alan


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## rowley

Tall Paul wrote---I am on the lookout for external screens and also covers for the gas bottles 

I would not recommend covering the gas bottles. As mentioned on other threads this could be counter productive. When in use the bottles will cool the adjacent area so if confined will tend to freeze up.


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## sallytrafic

Is this a record for a resusciated thread? First post is 2004 followed by a lot more that year then it got three posts in 2005 then some more in 2006 then a gap to yesterday.


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## Telbell

> Is this a record for a resusciated thread?


Looks like it could be Frank!

Though it perhaps shows the "Search" facility is in good use :lol:


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## ash

*Hi all*

Hello and a happy new year to all members  
We are off ski-ing in Feb and i must say thanks to all of you i have read some good tips on here ........Very helpful  

Ash & Lynn..


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