# using the hard shoulder



## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

see bbc news report

I cam across this on the M42 last week when visiting the NEC; I didn't know you could do it, and it looked like many people using the road didn't either. Some of the big signs said you can use the hard shoulder, and the marker above the hard shoulder lane had the speed restriction rather than the big "X". There are separate "laybys" to pull off into if you break down. 
When I came out of the NEC, the "extra lane" was working for a while, but stopped when I got nearer the M40 junction; there had been an accident near the junction, and loads of police, fire trucks & ambulances then buzzed along the hard shoulder (while we queued in the normal 3 lanes). 
Don't know whether they shut off the "extra lane" there because of the accident, or whether it was just a coincidence :roll: . I suppose it'll work OK until one of 2 things happen - somebody breaks down & can't get to one of the reservations, or people ignore the signs


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

More likely until someone dies unnecessarily because emergency vehicles were blocked from getting to the accident scene quickly enough.

Dave


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

> Don't know whether they shut off the "extra lane" there because of the accident, or whether it was just a coincidence Rolling Eyes . I suppose it'll work OK until one of 2 things happen - somebody breaks down & can't get to one of the reservations, or people ignore the signs Sad


Bognormike I quite agree with you. I think it will be disastrous. Why can't our motorways be like America's 6 lanes and a speed limit of 55mph 
Everything keeps moving at same speed


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

lindyloot said:


> Why can't our motorways be like America's 6 lanes and a speed limit of 55mph


Not enough land. Or money.

Dougie.


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## zaskar (Jun 6, 2005)

There is absolutely NO WAY would I use the hard shoulder in this way! 8O 
I can see the scenario now!
There I am, pottling along on the hard shoulder at 60.......somebody has a problem in lanes 1,2 or 3 , dives onto the hard shoulder and crams the anchors on without checking thier mirrors (a wonderfull trait by the tin-tops! 8O )
Suddenly, I've gotta bring 7 1/2 tons to a standstill from 60 in about 50 yards! 8O 
Dont think so! 8O


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Motorways what are those ...never use em if we can avoid it ...always go via the ordinary roads ...never ever get stuck in a jam and if we do we usually turn round or off and find another way... I like to relax in my motorhome ...stuck in a motorway jam or bombing down motorways with or without a hard shoulder is hardly relaxing, surrounded by all those speed crazed drivers who will I guess put all the minutes they have saved by zooming to their destination on the motorway into a "Time Bank" where they can make a withdrawal whenever they need some minutes :lol:

That was a little way {offtopic} sorry

BUT No hardshoulder ... that could only be thought to be a good idea by the same sort of looneys who think that these megatrucks will be ok on our roads :-

which is also off topic so ... sorry again









Mike


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

spykal said:


> never ever get stuck in a jam and if we do ...


rofl. There's a classic contradiction if ever I saw one. 

Dougie.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Almost :lol:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

spykal said:


> Almost :lol:


I have never, ever, ever in my entire life seen such a classic contradiction. And if I have, it wasn't as good as yours.

Dougie.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"who will I guess put all the minutes they have saved by zooming to their destination on the motorway into a "Time Bank" where they can make a withdrawal whenever they need some minutes "

Sounds familiar, Mike. Guilty as charged! 

Would it were different. We would love better to juggle full-time(+) work & commuting, house and garden management/maintenance/ development, parenting of children (no grandchildren yet so those joys/ time-consumers are still to come), and parenting of parents (!) 150 miles distance, with the idyllic and lazy weekend driving your post conveys :-(

I aspire to do better in 8.5 years, if we manage to get there in one piece!

Dave


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

asprn said:


> it wasn't as good as yours.
> 
> Dougie.


I really don't know what to say Dougie...I am so useless at accepting compliments ... I am so much happier dealing with brickbats...but thanks anyway :lol:

Mike

Now about these hard shoulders..... or is that broad shoulders :lol:


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

What planet are these leaders on?? They will be banning smoking from public places next :!: :!: 

Johnny F


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## teckie (Feb 25, 2007)

It would probably be a better idea if only vehicles that are intending to LEAVE the motorway at the NEXT forthcoming EXIT were allowed to use the hard shoulder !


Teckie


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

Hi 

During our business activities we have to work on the hard shoulder and this idea frightens not only myself but our industry. 

Would like to put the person who thought this one up in a broken down vehicle on the hardshoulder then tell him to load it on to a recovery truck while we stood back behind the safety barrier.

Absolutely ludicrous................

The Highways Agency want anyone who works on the roadside to train on their Module 17 think they should get the above person to sit said Module.

Joyce


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

In defence of this change on the M42 it actually has improved the flow of traffic for all users, there are numerous refuge points, it has more cameras both speed and flow monitoring the lanes than anywhere else in the country, they generally come into play at peak travel times 7-10am + 4-6.30pm but always with reduced speed limits, 50 max I believe, as you approach a junction the overhead lane sign changes to "This exit only" so with relevant observation it is straightforward.

I do share the concerns regarding anyone who has to work on the hardshoulder, and I do know that they do close of the lane, it is not beyond the engineers and technology to allow the rescue service vehicles to be fitted with transponders or similar to activate lane closure as they approach the stricken vehicle as soon as a vehicle is seen by the monitors or contact made with the rescue service by the driver, that should be made a priority for all rescue vehicles to be fitted with such a device, it won't cure all but it can only help improve safety.

Prior to this trial on this short stretch of motorway it could take 40 mins + to get from the M40/M42 junc to junc 6 NEC now it is around 10-15 so it achieving some difference. I use this stretch almost daily at all times and it has helped eased congestion.

Because traffic is moving on the M42 other local roads don't get as gridlocked with people trying to get around the tailbacks.

It is a Bandaid for the problem as the road was designed by morons who did not allow for adequate growth, further on it's down to 2 lanes :roll: 

I'm off to the M42 now with my hard hat on :lol: :lol: 

Chris


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"It is a Bandaid for the problem as the road was designed by morons who did not allow for adequate growth, "

Sorry to go off-topic, but I often use what I call "the M25 effect" when bemoaning the conspiracy of procurement/contracting where things in the end cost far more than originally planned/budgeted. When specifying the M25, it was clear from the outset 4 lanes would be required around much of its circumference before too long. Some good flow modelling and trend analysis had been done. Unfortunately the cost was considered too high to get the go-ahead, so the modelling assumptions were scrutinised to see where money could be "saved". It was noted, with some appetite, that if you took out local traffic (junction-hopping), 3 lanes were adequate. You can guess the rest.

The taxpayer ended up funding a bill FAR higher than was necessary, because the salesman's foot-in-the-door tactic was used to get money for 3 lanes, and then subsequently to add a 4th lane at a huge incremental cost. It would have been FAR cheaper to build 4 lanes from the outset where it was predicted to be needed.

The problem is predictable basic politics, accountability and buck-passing.

Dave


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

spykal said:


> That was a little way {offtopic} sorry
> 
> BUT No hardshoulder ... that could only be thought to be a good idea by the same sort of looneys who think that these megatrucks will be ok on our roads :-
> 
> ...


Mike that picture looks like the lights where the portway meets the road going up to the downs (forgotten the name for the moment) in Bristol, bad bend in a motorhome, but well you see the problem in that......

Carol


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## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

*!!!!*

I often use the M42 and I am sure it has speeded up the traffic. As far as I can see the hard shoulder is only used during busy times and there is a speed limit of 50 MPH. The traffic all moves at the same speed and as was said earlier you do actually get there without waiting in a jam.
I think if a vehicle is stuck on the hard shoulder it is spotted by the cameras and the lane is closed. Can't see it is any different than a vehicle braking down in the fast lane as it is all monitored.
Roll on the time when all our limits are held at 55mph. Jams would disappear overnight!!!!


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

Carol
If you look carefully, you'll see the traffic is driving on the right - and - there's a German Police vehicle coming towards the camera!! 8O 
Mike - did you purloin this picture from Commercial Motor (last weeks edition)?? 8) 
Keith (Sprokit)


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

ICDSUN

The only people allowed to do lane/road closures on major roads are the Police and Highways Agency and they are suppposed to attend in person. 

Recovery operators etc are not allowed to do lane closures even though they work within feet of vehicles travelling at 70mph plus. Ever seen a Council/ Highways Agency roadman in that position!! They have the light cushion vehicle flashing lights and so protecting the workmen.

There has been many vehicle recovery operators killed roadside because of vehicles running into the back of the recovery vehicle although the hazard beacons have been flashing.

I was once in attendance to an incident in the nearside lane of the A1 where the Police had supposedly secured the scene. A car decided he could undertake the scene along the nearside grass verge. When the driver was arrested by the Police it turned out he was an off duty Policeman from another county who had not scene the display of warning lights!!!!!

Roadworks etc have to apply in the press, for road closures for the duration of the works.

Joyce


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

sprokit said:


> Carol
> If you look carefully, you'll see the traffic is driving on the right - and - there's a German Police vehicle coming towards the camera!! 8O
> Mike - did you purloin this picture from Commercial Motor (last weeks edition)?? 8)
> Keith (Sprokit)


Hi Sprokit & Carol

Yes I am pretty sure it is in Germany and the picture is showing on >> This << website ( freightonrail.org.uk )

Mike


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

Joyce

I fully understand and appreciate your points, after all you and your staff are at the sharp end so you can speak with authority on the situation, I defended the fact that it has indeed improved traffic flow, but still could do with refining with regard to safety.

My thoughts were on how they can give further protection to anybody that has to work in those scenarios, one of my sons was a recovery mechanic and another a policeman,I know they have had more than a few close shaves, the present requirements for training of recovery staff obviously has a focus on safety, my suggestions may if they were ever adapted help to increase their safety I believe, this stretch of the M42 that has been used is bristling with all sorts of sensors, cameras etc, hopefully thay will replicate that but somehow I doubt it as that would cost a considerable amount of money which is probably the underlying reason for this change in use.

Unfortunately there are people driving that should not be on the roads, you probably scrap up the remnants of their stupidity daily, it is ironic that the stupid ones generally miss the carnage they cause and the innocent suffer.

It was not my intention to cause any offence to anybody or suggest that their safety was not relevant , I drive about 45000 miles PA and know how dangerous our roads are.

Chris


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