# Coach Built To A Class - Your Views Please



## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Himself is thinking of changing our coach built Burstner Solano to a A class Burstner Aviano. He has a worry though that the A class may be noisier and not handle as well as a coach built on the road. Has anyone got experience of making this move? Or has a view on this?


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## colpot (Jun 9, 2008)

We changed last year from a coachbuilt low profile Rapido to an A Class Hymer. I know all makes are different and also it depends on the size (Rapido 18ft 3500kg - Hymer 22ft 3900kg).
As for noise - we think the Hymer is quieter than the Rapido but it probably depends on how things are packed for travelling (eg Tea Towel in the Grill Pan to stop it rattling)


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

You don't find the engine noise any different then? Himself seems to think that as the engine is more 'integrated' it will be noisier.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Having had just one motorhome, an A-Class, I cannot comment on comparisons, but I see no reason for an A-Class to be noisier. The base is a chassis cowl and that contains the same dash area as a van conversion. Provided a decent sound-absorbent material is used in the A-Class veranda-like flat area that sits between the dash and the windscreen, I would not expect the engine noise to be more intrusive.
As the front of an A-Class is more streamlined and integrated into the whole body design, I would expect wind noise to be lower. We don't have a problem with ours.

Why not take one out on a test drive and see what you think?


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

we moved a long time ago from a Autoicruise Starfire to our Piolte. Much better ride, the al-ko chassis I think makes a difference. No probs at all with engine noise, although it's an old peugeot lump, I suspect the newer ones are better.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

*A Class*

We have had 2coachbuilts and now have a 5years old burstner elegance,
had it from new, it has been almost perfect. We would never go back by 
Choice. No problem with noise, easier to judge width due to same width 
Front to back, more feeling of space,850 KGS Payload.
We have habitation,drivers and passenger doors, just the job.
Think it out carefully and get what suites you.


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

A Class all the way.

We've had coachbuilt and currently have an A Class.
The space alone is very large compared to a similar layout coachbuilt that we had before... the headroom is also much more generous.

The visibility is better, as the windows are much larger... well on ours anyway.

Ours is also on an ALKO chassis, this has a double floor, so very good for storage.

I don't think they are more noisy... I think this is down to certain makes over others.

Would I go back... no.

I've attached a pic, not sure if it helps?


w


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Have to agree and say that we find the A class model no noisier than our previous motorhome which was a coach built on the same chassis with the same engine.

We find the cab area in our A class Burstner Elegance far warmer than the coach built cab area ever was and much roomier and open too. We wouldn't change back to an A class model now as we find with an A class you can make much better use of the integrated cab area. 

Hope this helps.

Sue


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

esperelda said:


> Himself is thinking of changing our coach built Burstner Solano to a A class Burstner Aviano. He has a worry though that the A class may be noisier and not handle as well as a coach built on the road. Has anyone got experience of making this move? Or has a view on this?


Having made the change from an over cab to a low profile and just to a baby A class (Hymer Exsis) I can honestly say there is no more noise.
The only problem is that it is like playing a game of snakes and ladders  You go two steps forward and one back.
What I mean is that I knew my old van inside out as we wild and use every facility, and getting to know a new van is a little stressful. Nothing wrong with the Exsis, it's just me needing to know all the nuts and bolts of everything!
But seriously, we are very happy!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Why not go and try one and make your OWN mind up, rather than relying on other peoples opinions???


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

I d like to know...

if he s never driven one, hows he come to think they re more noisey and dont handle as well :?: 

Looks :?: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

A class more aerodynamic.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi esperelda

There are advantages and disadvantages in "A" class 'vans, you have to make your own mind up as to which you would prefer. We've had both and have just gone back to a low profile Rapido from an "A" class Neismann Arto so can see both sides of the equation. Most people will tell you the benefits of an "A" class but not many will point out the snags - so here are a few:

With an "A" class the allround vision and space in the front is much better - but that large windscreen can be a real pest sometimes, especially with the VERY large screens such as the Niesmann and Euramobil. Imagine the sunburn as you drive along on a really hot sunny afternoon or the inability to stop the screen misting up when snow is falling, it can even be a physically difficult job to clean the inside surface of the screen on some 'vans. Then of course there's the horrendous replacement cost if you break one - check your insurance cover. You'll also need a good thermal screen cover to keep the condensation at bay on most nights other than during the hot summer evenings. That windscreen also acts as a superb radiator in the summer - so out comes the thermal screen again. :wink: 

Another real problem on the "A" class is the engine accessibility. This obviously varies from one make to another but on our Niesmann it was difficult to carry out even the most mundane of maintenance jobs like topping up oil, water and screenwash but almost impossible to top up the brake fluid, I simply couldn't unscrew the cap without dismantling the dashboard. Any maintenance can cost more if it entails accessing the depths of the engine compartment. If you're a DIY enthusiast it can be daunting.

Against that, "A" class 'vans are often better constructed - and of course they cost more to buy as a result. Most have good payloads and huge underfloor storage areas. Noise levels in our Arto were much less than in the new Rapido but that probably has more to do with the tyres that are fitted than anything else, engine noise shouldn't be any different. You may notice performance and economy suffering on a similarly powered "A" class to a coachbuilt, this mainly due to many "A" class vans often being less aerodynamic (shaped like bricks) and heavier. On our Arto a strong headwind could take 10mph off the top speed and add 20% to the fuel consumption.

For driving I definitely prefer the stately grandeur of the "A" class, even if I did have to take it easy on the corners, but for performance the new Rapido low-profile would knock spots off the old Arto. I don't think you'll find the handling much of a problem, we don't throw them around the bends anyway do we?

So there's a few points to consider. :wink:


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies, and the picture Wilse, gives a real sense of space. Special thanks to Gaspode for his comprehensive reply, it made very interesting reading.
And Mrplodd - we will make up our own minds, but there are a lot of you out there with a lot more experience than us, we've only been at this for a couple of years. It's always useful to hear different views.
We're going up to the dealers on Thursday afternoon and will make a decision then.
I think a big appeal to himself is the drop down double bed at the front - it means that when my snoring gets too much he can go down the other end of the can and climb in that bed to get some sleep!!


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

esperelda said:


> I think a big appeal to himself is the drop down double bed at the front - it means that when my snoring gets too much he can go down the other end of the can and climb in that bed to get some sleep!!


That is certainly one BIG benefit. 8) :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a real luxury to have two double beds, especially in the hot weather. Make sure you test the drop-down for comfort, some are much more comfortable than others, we added a cheap 25mm memory foam topper to ours and it made a world of difference to the comfort.


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## mrbricolage (Jun 30, 2008)

Adding to Gaspode comments. A Class's are seriously more expensive to repair. For example a recent member on here posted about the replacement of their front headlamp. Headline figure was £1000!!!


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

mrbricolage said:


> Adding to Gaspode comments. A Class's are seriously more expensive to repair. For example a recent member on here posted about the replacement of their front headlamp. Headline figure was £1000!!!


Yesterday, I was at Edgehill Motorhomes in Mansfield and the Guy there told me he can supply Hymer headlights for about £700


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## mags52 (May 9, 2010)

i thought sharing opinions and discussing stuff was what forums were for. Have I missed something?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

mags52 said:


> i thought sharing opinions and discussing stuff was what forums were for. Have I missed something?


err, what you on about? :?: 
This is quite a usefull thread with a few interesting points


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## mags52 (May 9, 2010)

Mrplodd said:


> Why not go and try one and make your OWN mind up, rather than relying on other peoples opinions???


sorry - I was responding to the above but loads of other replies came in between.
It is indeed an interesting thread and I thought that response was discouraging the OP


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## colpot (Jun 9, 2008)

esperelda said:


> You don't find the engine noise any different then? Himself seems to think that as the engine is more 'integrated' it will be noisier.


Our first Motorhome (a 1994 A Class Hymer on Fiat 2.5TD) was a tad noisy (more of a drone than noisy) compared to the Swift (2.0 Fiat) and the Rapido (2.3 Fiat) but I believe the current (2.8 Fiat) is the quietest of the four we have had.
A test drive would sort out the issue for you/him.

(Sorry - didnt see the 2nd page of replies!)


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

mags52 said:


> Mrplodd said:
> 
> 
> > Why not go and try one and make your OWN mind up, rather than relying on other peoples opinions???
> ...


No problem, I thought it was a possible cross thread  
Thanks


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Grath said:


> Yesterday, I was at Edgehill Motorhomes in Mansfield and the Guy there told me he can supply Hymer headlights for about £700


The expensive headlight units are a bit of a side issue I think. The ones that are VERY expensive are of a specific design made by Hella under contract to Hymer and fitted to some recent Hymer models including the Exsis. Hymer will not allow Hella to sell them except via Hymer thus maintaining a price level of £1500+ each. What's more it appears that these lights may have an intrinsic fault causing them to implode for no reason.

AFAIK this is a Hymer specific problem but in any case any breakage should be covered by your insurance.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday, I was at Edgehill Motorhomes in Mansfield and the Guy there told me he can supply Hymer headlights for about £700
> ...


As you know, I have recently purchased an Exsis and Edgehill were talking about the new shape lights as fitted to the Exsis and others. There was no incentive for them to give me a low figure as I did not buy from them, well not directly!
I read as many posts as possible prior to buying, I read £1750 to £1000 and it may be a case of a faulty early batch? I do hope so!
Now even better with Edgehill saying £700 approx.
I did think long and hard about buying an A Class, although maybe a baby version at 6.73 metres and a little narrower, but now the deed is done, I will just have to suck it and see how it goes.
I still have reservations and yesterday the low sun shinning through the front window was a problem shinning between the two visors, so another mod is needed and is in hand.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

My comment about the OP trying one for themselves was meant to be helpful !!!

My thinking being that one one person considers to be a noisey vehicle or one that doesnt handle well, or has an uncomfortable seating arrangement will not necessarily match up with the OP's views !!

Its a bit like asking someone if they think a Persimmon house is better than a Wimpy or Barrett house, or is a bungalow better than a house, is semi better than terraced or detached!!! They all do the same job of providing you with accomodation.

Its ALL down to personal taste and I was trying to get that across to the OP without waffling (like I am doing now :lol: )

So PLEASE dont take my comments the wrong way, I was TRYING to be as helpful as possible. 

I have owned both and there are/were good and bad points for both.


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

OK, been to the dealer, have spent several hours talking about it and have decided that the Aviano i739g is the model we would want, with a transverse bed. 

BUT is there anyone out there who has got one or could answer me this: where is the TV?? The dealer didn't have this particular model and we've looked on the net but there are conflicting pictures and we can't make out whether its on the left as you go into the van or next to the sink, as it is in our current Solano, with a roll up concertina door. Have read the Burstner book and looked at the site but still cannot be clear on it. It won't be THE deciding factor but it would fill a gap in our knowlege. Many thanks in anticipation!!


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Hi Esperelda,

I've had a quick look and from what I can make out the very latest models coming through have a place for the TV just inside the hab door on the left as you enter and previous models have the pull out TV in the kitchen area with the concertina door. I might be wrong but that's how it looks to me.

We have the Burstner Elegance which is basically a larger version of the Aviano and we cannot praise it enough. We are thrilled to bits with it and if we ever downsize to a smaller van then the Aviano is definitely on our short list. 

I notice you are considering a transverse bed layout but have you considered the 2 single bed layout? I ask this because we have the 2 singles and we find we have the best of both worlds with this set up. You can avoid the clambouring over one another in the night scenario if you need to visit the bathroom or get a drink etc but if you wish to snuggle up together, then you simply pull out the centre piece and hey presto you have a massive transverse bed! We find this set up is perfect for us and if we take our little 2 year old grandson away with us, he sleeps in one of the singles in the bedroom with me and grandad sleeps in the over the cab let down bed! I like to keep my eye on my grandson and be close at hand in case he wakes up in the night. 

I just thought I'd point this out to you as an alternative as apparantley the single bed layouts are now outselling all the other options.

Keep us posted on what you decide.

Sue


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks for this info Sonesta, it's really useful to hear from someone with experience of this layout. Originally we were convinced we wanted to move to the single beds/big bed layout , but we tried them in an Elegance and had 2 concerns: our feet were almost touching the wardrobe at the bottom, and did if we slightly stretched, and although we could see that you could easily pull the board out between the beds - where do you keep the cushions? It would be a bit hard without the cushion ! (also, I wasn't sure I liked having a cupboard above my head, and I wd have to buy all new bedding). We could be tempted back if we could understand how it would work better.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Hi again,

The cushion fits in between the 2 single beds and folds up in a special way that allows it to be stored neatly in between the 2 singles. You can just leave the cushio in between the beds during the day and because they fold up they don't take up much space. 

The bed if used as a big double bed allows you to sleep sideways on so your head and feet are under the 2 bedroom windows and not under the overhead lockers. However, we sleep mostly in the single set up and neither of us has ever banged our heads.

Bedding wise we use 2 single duvets regardless of whatever layout we decide upon and this works ok for us either way.

There is another option and that is the island bed layout but I don't think that option gives you a garage. 

If you are both tall people then maybe the single bed model would not be a good idea but, as I am only 5ft 0in and my husband is 5ft 11in - we fortunately don't have a problem.

Hope this helps?

Sue


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

One thing a lot of people forget is that for the same body width measurement an A Class will end up being almost a foot wider than a coachbuilt when the driving mirrors are taken into account. This is due to the mirrors on a coachbuilt being set back into the body along with the cab. This can make a big difference on a Cornish road with white van man about and the often quoted Fiat 230mm width is miles out. Apart from this, and having owned both, I agree that they both have their advantages - coachbuilt for on road, A Class for on site.

Ron


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

ob1 said:


> One thing a lot of people forget is that for the same body width measurement an A Class will end up being almost a foot wider than a coachbuilt when the driving mirrors are taken into account.


Hi Ron

A few weeks ago I'd have agreed with you on that point, however we've just changed from an Arto "A" class to a Rapido coachbuilt and I can assure you that the opposite applies. 8O

We have a very narrow entrance to our property and I always struggled to get the Arto through the gate (in reverse). I had about three or four inches to spare but I never had to fold the mirrors to get in. Now with the Rapido I find that I have less than an inch gap with the mirrors out so have to fold one of them in to get through the gate. It makes a difficult reversing manouvre almost impossible I can tell you. :roll:


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Gaspode - Thats a strange one, are they really both the same body width or are other factors involved? 

And - before anyone takes the mickey I did mean centimetres  

Ron


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

We have recently purchased a Hymer Exsis and they are about 5 inches narrower.
Although I am an experienced International Trucker, the narrower width works well for us down the smaller roads.
Our Exsis is nearly 7 metres long and plenty of room.

http://www.presse2010.hymer.com/csd-2010/Prices_technical_data_GB/Motorhome/TD_HYMER_Exsis-i_GB.pdf


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

HODDAMADOD said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have been saving up for a small LHD A Class to tour around Europe.
> Just the two of us!
> ...


Hi

A separate thread specifically about this would attract more replies. Good luck with your search.

Paul.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Test drive is the best answer.
BUT we went from a coachbuilt on the Merc to an A class on a Merc. I can confirm that the oven shelves rattle about the same in both if you don,t do something about it. But engine noise, cannot say I have noticed any difference, perhaps the A class is a tad quieter as its got oodles of sound insulation built into the engine bay. Of more consideration is that the bigger they are the more sedately you tend to drive them round roundabouts!

Coachbuilt was an Autotrail Scout and the A class a Concorde Charisma.

C.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

ob1 said:


> Gaspode - Thats a strange one, are they really both the same body width or are other factors involved?


I can't remember the exact width of the Arto but there isn't much difference in the actual body width, if anything the Arto was a tad wider. The difference is in the amount the mirrors extend from the sides. The Arto had top quality coach type mirrors which fitted close to the body, the Rapido has those ugly Fiat jobbies that stick out a mile from the side of the cab.


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

I just want to say a special thank you to Sue for her help on this subject. We re-visited the question of the single/large double bed v the transverse bed and have decided to go for the singles model.

All of the replies were helpful as they all promoted discussion on all various points. It took a lot of umming and ahing, backwards and forwards, discussing this and that, going round in circles at some points but in the end we are happy with our decision. Aviano with singles at the back all ordered, delivery end of June! So exciting!

Hopefully we will have it for our summer hol in the south of France.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Our Exsis is the longer variety with two single beds running longitude over the very large garage.
We were a little apprehensive about twin beds, but they have some advantages such as no climbing over your partner and disturbing them.
We actually quite like them now and much more room than our previous French corner bed.
I am sure you will be delighted with your choice.
Enjoy! 

And if you want a double, you can always use the drop down front bed


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