# Fined last week



## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Sorry A frames again. 

We were stopped just N of Triest by the police and fined 97 E for using a fully braked Unibrake A frame 

The Police were not at all interested in the Italian translation and would not even look at our set up. 

Illegal was the word... end of story.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think the writing is becoming increasingly clear about "A" frames used outside the UK......

sorry for you, but possibly that now indicates the desirability of avoiding Spain AND Italy if using an "A" frame, irrespective of what the UK based manufacturers would say.....

It is what the user encounters that will dictate their future use......

Thanks for the advice,

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yeah, stuff em. See if they can survive without our 'Tourist' Dollars.
I decided a few years ago never to go back to the states because of their immigration thugs.

Ray.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

It seems to me that some police ignore, others check, and others just fine.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Well I ask, is this post just a Trailer for what is starting to happen in Europe.000


cabby

Tin hat fitted.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

PS all maps of Italy now destroyed, Italy pages removed from my road atlas and suitably disposed of.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Well done Wupert. I went off Italy when I found out they were charging £5 a coffee beside a smelly canal 18 years ago.

Ray.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

No problem without an a-frame! 

Hasn' t that letter been shown to be a complete waste of time in several countries? Will you not be going to Germany either, Wupert? I seem to remember another member reporting being fined theere as well.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Still have the UK.............. so far.>>

cabby


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

cabby said:


> Still have the UK.............. so far.>>
> cabby


Oh great.!

Ray.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

bognormike said:


> No problem without an a-frame!
> 
> Hasn' t that letter been shown to be a complete waste of time in several countries? Will you not be going to Germany either, Wupert? I seem to remember another member reporting being fined theere as well.


I hav'nt seen that post BM. Other than Spain & Italy every other country remains on my list.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

I am German and I definitely know that the use of A-frames in Germany is illegal.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Definitely illegal to use A-frame for towing one road vehicle with another under those countries national road traffic laws in Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, France.

Possibly legal, or possibly illegal, in the UK......only a court case there would clear up the "grey" status on roads within the UK.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

TheNomad said:


> Definitely illegal to use A-frame for towing one road vehicle with another under those countries national road traffic laws in Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, France.
> 
> Possibly legal, or possibly illegal, in the UK......only a court case there would clear up the "grey" status on roads within the UK.


I think Nomad has put his finger on it; that it is not about the method of towing but the fact that one vehicle is towing another - illegal in some countries, unless presumably by a recovery vehicle.

As a matter of interest do the police in these countries write out a 'ticket' defining the offence committed or just a reeipt? - or neither? Fortunately, so far, I have no experience.

Geoff


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

You could always buy a bigger car and tow a caravan :grin2:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

now that could open a can of worms, in France the caravan I assume is the same as a trailer, needs it's own paper work and reg number. So a vehicle towing another vehicle.>>

cabby


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Were you able to go on your way or did he insist on you decoupling?

Dick


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I think that people wanting to 'A' frame in continental Europe should treat it in the same way as speeding - it's not allowed but most of the time you will get away with it. Sometimes you will be unlucky and have to cough up but if you are willing to pay for the convenience of 'A' framing or speeding then that's fine. In case anyone accuses me of prejudice, I do both!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

cabby said:


> now that could open a can of worms, in France the caravan I assume is the same as a trailer, needs it's own paper work and reg number. So a vehicle towing another vehicle.>>
> 
> cabby


No, it is a vehicle towing a trailer with an unladen mass greater than 750kg AFAIK, the registrations are not the same....

it is NOT a vehicle as you suggest.....

Interestingly due to the vagaries of the French "_immatriculation_" system our MH (3.8 tonne and with a full European Certificate of Conformity and Eurotype code) is registered as a "caravane" and that is regarded as correct by the _Controle Technique_ organisation......

Dave


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

peribro said:


> I think that people wanting to 'A' frame in continental Europe should treat it in the same way as speeding - it's not allowed but most of the time you will get away with it. Sometimes you will be unlucky and have to cough up but if you are willing to pay for the convenience of 'A' framing or speeding then that's fine. In case anyone accuses me of prejudice, I do both!


But the double-whammy of being stopped and fined for illegal A-framing is that, as well as having the fine, you also can't continue as a unit, but must de-couple and drive both vehicles separately from then on.


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Sorry for delay. We had to uncouple and the good lady drove the car.


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