# So What Would You Do ?



## nukeadmin

As I am doing far more housekeeping and responding to reports atm, I thought I would pose a question to you guys 

If a user has an avatar that they have had for months and then it is reported as being offensive to that person, what should I do ?

i.e. Respond by removing the avatar, telling the user it had been reported

or tell the reporter that I personally do not find it crosses a decency line

Either way one person gets offended


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## GEMMY

Tell the user it has been reported, and what does he personally think?

tony


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## barryd

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Can I be the first to suggest you bring back the mods!!

Sorry

Real answer. Make a decision yourself. Your in charge, its your site.


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## 100127

Nuke, you cannot do it all on your own, that's what mods were for.
Don't run yourself into the ground, I like this site.

Bob


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## aldra

nukeadmin

life is too short

An avatar is just that

and I would think that unless it is grossly out of line, and I have yet to see that, I think I would count the objections

If they total a large amount talk to the user

otherwise you cannot please everyone

however

having said that

that cat is worrying me

its nails are worn to the quick

animal cruelty I call it

Aldra
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## urbanracer

Lets have a vote on it.

If it been on show for months and no one else has reported it,why does one person report now,if you take it of now you give him/her full censure.


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## erneboy

Make your own mind up Nuke or put it to a vote, Alan.


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## barryd

aldra said:


> nukeadmin
> 
> life is too short
> 
> An avatar is just that
> 
> and I would think that unless it is grossly out of line, and I have yet to see that, I think I would count the objections
> 
> If they total a large amount talk to the user
> 
> otherwise you cannot please everyone
> 
> however
> 
> having said that
> 
> that cat is worrying me
> 
> its nails are worn to the quick
> 
> animal cruelty I call it
> 
> Aldra
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I think the cat is superb!

I want an animated Pooh Bear or Droopa out of the Banana Splits!


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## Penquin

That is a question which I have faced repeatedly over the past 3 years of Moderation - it is an interesting challenge (I could probably tell you which avatar it is too), and was one that was discussed repeatedly between the group of Mods.

That is one advantage of a group discussion - it gives you a balanced view of all different viewpoints; male, female, married, single, different backgrounds and so on.

There are times when you have to make a decision KNOWING that doing so will attract negative comments and criticism.

That is what Modertion is all about.

Dave


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## 100127

Penquin said:


> That is a question which I have faced repeatedly over the past 3 years of Moderation - it is an interesting challenge (I could probably tell you which avatar it is too), and was one that was discussed repeatedly between the group of Mods.
> 
> That is one advantage of a group discussion - it gives you a balanced view of all different viewpoints; male, female, married, single, different backgrounds and so on.
> 
> There are times when you have to make a decision KNOWING that doing so will attract negative comments and criticism.
> 
> That is what Modertion is all about.
> 
> Dave


 Bravo, hear hear.


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## aultymer

You could always resort to publishing all reports. Then members could see if a disproportionate number of reports come from a small group of 'reporters'. Some people get a kick out of reporting and/or have nothing better to do.

Is it possible to develop an automated system which would require multiple 'reports' before you were alerted? One complaint regarding a 'moral' issue should not involve you at all since we all have differing values.

Racist, legal or spam posts need attention urgently but you have more to do than pander to 'offended of Oxford'!!

By the way, that cat gives me the creeps.


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## aldra

Barryd

I am rapidly going off you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

OK let cruelty to animals reign

Just ignore him nukeadmin

What he wants

_I want an animated Pooh Bear or Droopa out of the Banana Splits!
_

just illustrates the fact that you cannot trust him in a a rational discussion

Aldra


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## GEMMY

It's developed "the thumb" 8) 

tony


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## 747

All avatars should be modest and holesome, err I mean wholesome.

I wonder why my ears are burning. :?


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## Penquin

Aultymers view has some distinct merit; a single report should rarely intiate action, but I would not want the reporters named - it would stop any posts being reported IMO. The present system of anonymity works well but needs to be interpreted with care.

Obviously clearly racist, offensive type posts do not need mutliple reports BUT when things are borderline it is much harder.

Dave


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## GEMMY

"Obviously clearly racist, offensive type posts do not need mutliple reports BUT when things are borderline it is much harder"

But should be interpreted by more than one mod.


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## barryd

aldra said:


> Barryd
> 
> I am rapidly going off you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> OK let cruelty to animals reign
> 
> Just ignore him nukeadmin
> 
> What he wants
> 
> _I want an animated Pooh Bear or Droopa out of the Banana Splits!
> _
> 
> just illustrates the fact that you cannot trust him in a a rational discussion
> 
> Aldra


Ha!

Typical woman! Cant make up your mind. You and Mavis were fighting over me a week ago!

Ill bow out now as this is clearly just for grown ups.


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## Bill_H

I'm sure there are those who seek out things to which the are offended.
Green ink, disgusted of Tonbridge Wells, Mary Whitehouse et. al.
I've better things to do.
There will always be someone who gets offended no matter what you do.
Don't we have the option to turn off avitars?


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## erneboy

If the avatar is really bad it should be annoying to many people and if they care enough about it they should report it. 

It clearly isn't bad because people haven't reported it.

Even to consider acting because one oversensitive person wants to be permitted to exercise undue influence seems totally unreasonable to me, Alan.


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## MrsW

Remember too that something may upset one member without upsetting another. We are all different with different backgrounds and different "luggage". I would be very cross if no-one took a report seriously that I made just because I was the first to report something.


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## PennyandDerek

I'm with Aultymer on this one.
The art of 'taking offence' is becoming quite commonplace.
We have seen many police forces and Councils running around in ever decreasing circles because of this new 'art form'.
Surely, the question you are struggling with is.."do I wish to/have to bow to this request for editorial control(censorship?) ?
You already know the answer.
Democracy is about living with differences, if the reporter cannot tolerate this.........tough!

Derek


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## erneboy

The first of many, or even several, would be different. It's not the case here, the avatar in question has been in use for months according to Nuke, Alan.


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## aldra

I understand where you are coming from MrsW

But this is a site of many members

Each report should be taken seriously

But if the majority are not offended???

Maybe it is to do with the way an individual interpretates it

Some may feel offence where non was ever intended

Aldra


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## 747

Bill_H said:


> .
> *There will always be someone who gets offended no matter what you do.*
> quote]
> 
> I find that remark offensive. If it happens again ....... :evil:


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## MrsW

In the case under discussion I have no problem Aldra, but my point stands, there are some things which upset some but not all members. It depends on upbringing, past experiences etc. Not every member needs to be upset for action to be taken.


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## aldra

I now want to know

What is the avatar in Question

Could be yours 747

but that is a rather nice pert bum :lol: :lol: :lol:  

So, who has the offending avatar

I'd vote mine except no one knows what a *** he is

Aldra


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## mandyandandy

Hi, 

I would keep the report to myself, if however I received a certain number of them which I would also keep to myself (but set a limit in your head for future reports) then I would remove it with an apology to the person and just say you have received over the number you allow and therefore you have to remove it. 

Some of the reporting on things like this can be done in spite or revenge so you need to have more than one report, in my view anyway. 

We all know what is blatant racism etc so common sense has to prevail. 

Good luck and I had no idea mods had gone till I read it on O&A

Mandy


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## GerryD

Don't know the case in question.
Life's too short, if anyone is so thin skinned to not have a sense of humour, who cares?
As for the decision, well we no longer have any mods, so any decision will be based on a much narrower point of view.
I really do not see why an opinion is being requested when a few days ago opinions (Mods) were banned.
Gerry


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## aultymer

> Not every member needs to be upset for action to be taken.


Ah, but how many need to be offended? I would suggest more than one out of the total membership and probably a substantial number to discourage getting mates, wives and hangers on to make reports in support.

An anonymised list of reports showing only the number of reports by A, B, and C would show if a disproportionate amount of work was being created by an individual or cabal.


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## aultymer

> I really do not see why an opinion is being requested when a few days ago opinions (Mods) were banned.


I find this new approach quite refreshing.

'Banned' is a bit perjorative and we do not know the full facts.


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## aldra

I agree not every member needs to be upset--- Mrs W

But enough to make a consensus

otherwise it would be at the whim of the individuals

and that would not represent the majority view

Aldra


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## Penquin

I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong (which happens  :lol: ) but I THINK that once a post has been reported and the exclamation mark is illuminated I don't know if it can be re-reported as I have never tried it........

so multiple reports is harder to explain, but it is not something I have ever tried and am probably talking out of my.............

perhaps guidance could be offered?

Dave


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## aultymer

If you are correct Pinguin, then that means that many members have been penalised and upset in the past on the basis of a single report - I really hope not! Otherwise the system was even worse than I thought.


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## Penquin

No it doesn't it simply means that if the sign is lit can/will people still press it?

Only Nuke can answer that, I KNOW that we have received multiple reports about some posts where they were clearly racist, so there has to be a way as they were not all cleared instantly......

I have just never tried and do not know - hence why I said.. (perhaps I phrased it wrongly), but if you were concerned about a post which was perhaps offensive to you, but saw it had already been reported would you try again?

Many wouldn't faced with such a thing.....

I hope that makes clear what I was trying to say - as always what we think we have typed is not always what other people think they have read.......  

But I am always happy to try to explain (and always have been)......

Dave.


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## barryd

I guess the other thing to consider is if one person has reported it, how many fingers have hovered over the report button but the not bothered as they dont know what it entails I don't like to complain? Or indeed how many have been offended and dont even know there is a report button. 

I refer to my original post on page 1, I think you have to make an executive decision based on what you think the vast majority of members and the tone mhf would find acceptable and if the member doesn't like it then tough


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## bazzeruk

I think we all know which avatar it is and I'm surprised the person concerned hasn't commented - perhaps he is out of range of a signal?


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## peribro

You decide yourself whether you find it offensive and that should be the basis for your decision. If you become out of tune with the feelings of the majority then you will start to see it through the number of hits on the site, repeat visits, new members etc etc. and you will decide what to do. If you try to do everything in a democratic manner it won't work - you can never please everyone. In my work environment I found I was the most successful when I was being perceived as (and called) an autocrat! As soon as I went the democratic route, there was dissent, ambiguities etc etc!!


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## pneumatician

Well I might be jumping the gun and and adding 2+2 to make 5.
But I definitely think a "Playtex Bra" would improve the appearance.

Did I guess right. Or should I get me coat 

Unaffended

Steve


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## aultymer

I have yet to see an avatar which I would consider worth the effort of reporting. I cannot understand anyone being so insecure that they could be offended by a 1" square image.

Just thought of one which would offend me - a Tory Party emblem!!


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## asprn

Dave, I think you need to lead from the front rather than run this forum by the most disparate committee in the history of mankind. 

You've made a clear decision to dispense with peer moderation. Take the decisions in the same way regarding the moderating issues. Otherwise we are all moderators, which seems to me to be fatuous. 

Dougie.


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## urbanracer

I feel the person who reported it and the reasons why it ofends him/her should be named.
and this should be the case in every report.


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## geraldandannie

GerryD said:


> As for the decision, well we no longer have any mods, so any decision will be based on a much narrower point of view. I really do not see why an opinion is being requested when a few days ago opinions (Mods) were banned.


Yup. Dead easy, this moderating lark.

Maybe there should have been a question, asked of the general membership, a number of days ago: "Does MotorhomeFacts need moderators?" That might have elicited some interesting (and perhaps, more important) replies.

Gerald


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## geraldandannie

Maybe I should report this thread as being in the wrong forum section? :wink: 

Then we could all have a discussion over which section we think it should be in.

Gerald


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## aldra

Now I am feeling out of it

have no idea of the possible offending avatar

I always knew I had a problem :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

will back out gracefully  

Aldra


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## geraldandannie

aldra said:


> have no idea of the possible offending avatar


On a scale of 1-10 in importance, I would rate it as -1. One report in several months is a no-brainer.

Gerald


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## cabby

we all know the answer to this question, the avatar has been in use for over 4 months, only one person has complained. let well alone. if more complain then ask the member to change it. simples.
why on earth you ask us I really do not know.It is common sense.

cabby


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## artona

You just have to make a decision Dave. I estimate I gave £39000 worth of my time to moderating MHF. There is no reward. You just have to take it on the chin and get on with it.

Not sure its fair to try to drag members into making moderating decisions. It will soon develop into an argument.

But in answer to your question work like the trading standars. If they get one report they might not act but if they get 2 or 3 or maybe 100 reports they work through each and every report, answering it and then they react


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## richardjames

cabby said:


> we all know the answer to this question, the avatar has been in use for over 4 months, only one person has complained. let well alone. if more complain then ask the member to change it. simples.
> why on earth you ask us I really do not know.It is common sense.
> 
> cabby


I agree. I spend a lot of time on this site and, personally, do not find any of the avatars offensive. My only question is why has it taken so long for the complaint to emerge?


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## greygit

I also look in on site every day when in the country and I haven't found an avatar offensive but putting it to a vote would seem to me the most sensible option. 
Gary


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## moblee

Is it mine :?: I'm not a Drug baron, there just sugar coated placebo's...Honest

:lol: :lol:


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Is it me.?
I have just seen this thread. Highly amusing

She is wearing a bra.

An avatar is seen by me as an extension of ones personality.
nukes, a satisfied person watching over all.
barryd, a soft cuddly person.
peribro, likes to show his vehicles to us all and his love of the outdoors
asprn, shows links to his former employnent.
pneumatician, likes model aeroplanes
aldra clearly loves big black dogs
erneboy has a coach.
747 is a cheeky chap
GEMMY , speaks for itself. full of imagination and finds it difficult to pick.
GerryD likes to show his big one.
DTPCHEMICALS, full of fun. never intends to be offensive and does not open the SUN or Daily Mirror.


If it is my avatar that is the problem would the reporter kindly show us their interesting one.

Life is too boring to be miserable.
If I have to remove it I will replace it with a white flag.

Dave p

EDIT If this is the offending avatar and only one person has reported it then he/she is outnumbered by the number of members that find it amusing.


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## erneboy

It looks as though there is the possibility that one or two people who like to have their own way may be able to gain sufficient influence to allow them to dictate the content of MHF just by pushing the report button. That can't be right. 



This also sheds new light on what we have been told about reports in the past.

Dave/Penquin says he thinks that once the button is pressed it stays pressed till the the complaint is viewed by admin and the button reset. That seems probable.

I am curious then as to how it was that we were often told in the past the numerous, many or even several reports had been received about this or that. The number seems likely to be very low indeed given that after each pressing the button appears to have needed resetting.

Another example of a tiny number of people wielding huge undue influence.

I am amazed that Nuke started this thread. Sorry Nuke but you were self confident enough to dispense with the services of the mods just a few days ago and now you need help with a simple, clear cut issue like this, Alan.


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## DABurleigh

"only one person has reported it then he/she is outnumbered by the number of members that find it amusing."

Which is the wonderful irony of this thread and indeed the topic of how "causing offence" should be handled in general. Is it something that is subject to a democratic vote, or does just one offender dictate that the cause of the offence should be removed? It is a bit like the law on harassment, which has absolutely nothing to do with what was intended, or the action in an absolute sense, but everything to do with how it is received. 

Those who are PC inclined would probably find the democracy more like mob rule.

Those who are democratic find that exceedingly small minority who take offence, certainly by proxy, do not merit the influence they receive.

Dave


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## barryd

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> barryd, a soft cuddly person.


If only you knew the truth!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 8O

Please tell me its not your big knockers Dave thats upset the forum. If someone has complained about that then they really are easily offended or jelous.


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## richardjames

Let common sense prevail - some could find my avatar offensive especially with the connotations at the start. I seriously think that no one on this site goes out of their way to be offensive but just offer an extension of their personality 8O 8O
After all we are in this with the same interest *MOTORHOMING*


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## grizzlyj

Hi folks

I disagree that just one complaint received should ensure its of no consequence and ignored.

Isn't the important bit the degree of offence?

So one report of something mildly offensive to one, someone perhaps new to the site and surprised at what they see presses the button. After a bit of discussion the reporter discovers a little more about the context, and the "mod" understands where the reporter is coming from, resulting in a non-issue?

But one instance can still be offensive enough to be dealt with immediately without question as I'm sure everyone would agree?

And I don't see whats wrong with Capt. Nuke trying to get a feel for what all us moaning minnies think. 

"The listening forum" 

Jason


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## urbanracer

They was a song in lare 60's early 70's that had a line

Big,Beefy,juicy and bouncy Dave's avatar reminds me of this but what was the song and group.


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## erneboy

grizzlyj said:


> Hi folks
> 
> I disagree that just one complaint received should ensure its of no consequence and ignored. ..............................


In many cases I might agree with that, one report could be the first of several.

However in this case Nuke tells us that the avatar has been in use for months. This is the first and only report, clearly only one person is offended and equally clearly either it took them quite some time to decide to be offended or they are not regular users of MHF and hadn't seen the avatar before.

If it's the former the offence caused must have been very marginal for it to have taken months for it to assume sufficient importance to merit a report, and if it's the latter then someone who is not a regular user wants to help run MHF, Alan.


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## bigbazza

"So what would you do"?

I'd ask the experienced mods.


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## teljoy

I've only got one complaint about Dave's avatar. It's that when I am reading his often amusing posts my eyes are constantly flicking left and being distracted. But I really am not offended.

The words " get a life " really do spring to mind.

Terry


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## Zebedee

bigbazza said:


> I'd ask the experienced mods.


OK Baz - from one experienced ex-Mod. :wink:

My thinking would have been to reject the report on the following grounds.

If any of our male members (_and possibly female too - we mustn't discriminate! :wink: ) _ were lucky enough to be waiting for a bus when a young lady of those proportions was running to catch it . . . would they be offended by the sight of her "attributes" going out of control?

How could any normal, sensible person possibly be offended in that situation . . . so why make a fuss about exactly the same thing on DaveP's "wishful thinking" avatar. (_Sad old git that he is!_ :lol: :lol: )

Anyway, as one who knows all about bouncy things, I feel sorry for the girl.

That must hurt, especially if one of them catches her under the chin!! 8O :lol:

Dave

(Rather tongue in cheek at the end - but mostly dead serious. :wink: )


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## nukeadmin

> Real answer. Make a decision yourself. Your in charge, its your site.


i can and have done Barry, but I like to think we are democracy of sorts here on MHF and would like to see what the community at large thinks of these type of things



> Racist, legal or spam posts need attention urgently but you have more to do than pander to 'offended of Oxford'!!


Yes but the problem is what one finds offensive another doesn't 



> But should be interpreted by more than one mod.


ah but don't other sites run as dictatorship where all decisions are guided by a sole person  this is the crux of the issues with forums IMHO, people are people, some want safe, peaceful, "policed" environment, whereas others want free speech, it's a tough line to walk



> I would keep the report to myself, if however I received a certain number of them which I would also keep to myself (but set a limit in your head for future reports) then I would remove it with an apology to the person and just say you have received over the number you allow and therefore you have to remove it.


Well I had thought of this and have changed the code so that multiple reports can now be done on a post (It used to only allow one for a post but could do multiple type reports via topics/users etc as well) This then begs the issue how many reports before action is taken 

See it is a democracy 

Some obviously only need a single report i.e. where it is obvious such as spamming etc but some will be harder i.e. like offensive avatars ?



> I really do not see why an opinion is being requested when a few days ago opinions (Mods) were banned.


Firstly the mods were not banned !
I am trying to get a feel for how the community itself would like to be run, nothing more



> Maybe there should have been a question, asked of the general membership, a number of days ago: "Does MotorhomeFacts need moderators?" That might have elicited some interesting (and perhaps, more important) replies.


Well having seen some members comments elsewhere I think I know what the answers would have been 



> You just have to make a decision Dave. I estimate I gave £39000 worth of my time to moderating MHF. There is no reward. You just have to take it on the chin and get on with it.
> Not sure its fair to try to drag members into making moderating decisions. It will soon develop into an argument.


I am not "dragging" members into anything, I am asking them a simple question, would you rather I simply take a more officious route then i.e. ban left right and chelsea, no comments allowed, swift, instant justice ?
This would certainly offer us the path of least resistance but not always the most efficient long term once everyone has left the site (or been banned) 



> am amazed that Nuke started this thread. Sorry Nuke but you were self confident enough to dispense with the services of the mods just a few days ago and now you need help with a simple, clear cut issue like this, Alan.


see above Alan
My main point to this thread was to make users think about what goes on in the back end of mhf, and Other forums of course. What decisions have to be made, how to come to a decision etc



> And I don't see whats wrong with Capt. Nuke trying to get a feel for what all us moaning minnies think.


lol apparently I should just be a dictator Jason and be done with it 

Oh and a user can be reported, a topic can be reported, a post can be reported and a PM can be reported so there were multiple means of reporting previously, plus i also get Emails, Skype messages etc


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## erneboy

Nice answer Nuke and nearly complete.

Would you care to address the issue of a very small number of people being able to wield undue influence and how that can be squared with your vision of democracy on MHF? Alan.


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## barryd

Isn't he airing the debate for anyone to offer opinions though Alan or am I missing your point


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## camallison

Returning to the original question regarding the avatar ....... remembering that most of this site is open to the public and not labelled as adult (I presume) then would you like your 5-year-old grandchild to view the offending avatar if they happened by chance to land (from a search) on a page showing it?

Simple?

Colin


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## DABurleigh

Bum. Better not send the grandchildren to the local shop any more :-(

Dave


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## aultymer

> Yes but the problem is what one finds offensive another doesn't


Well Nuke, this is the crux of the entire problem.

We can all agree on spam and personal attacks but I would be surprised of even the former mods group could agree on what is 'offensive' (unless you had chosen a group for their ability to be offended !).

The former test of 'what the gentleman on the Clapham omnibus' found offensive died in the Lady Chatterly trial.

Counseling, not pandering is required for anyone reporting any of the present avatars.

That cat is still the most frightening avatar.


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## erneboy

barryd said:


> Isn't he airing the debate for anyone to offer opinions though Alan or am I missing your point


Afraid you are Barry, yes.

Nuke claims there is a kind of democracy on MHF. I say there can't be if there is a chance that one person, or even a few people can get their own way and dictate what is not to be tolerated by clicking the report button.

That does not mean that I think all reports should be ignored or that more than one report should always be needed before action is taken.

I would like to understand Nuke's point of view on that question, Alan.


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## Zebedee

DABurleigh said:


> Bum. Better not send the grandchildren to the local shop any more :-(
> Dave


Nor the bus stop Dave!


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## nukeadmin

> Nuke claims there is a kind of democracy on MHF. I say there can't be if there is a chance that one person, or even a few people can get their own way and dictate what is not to be tolerated by clicking the report button.


there is only a chance if I, or in the past the moderators, had a majority agreement with the reporter


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## camallison

DABurleigh said:


> Bum. Better not send the grandchildren to the local shop any more :-(
> 
> Dave


I was speaking in general terms, not specifically about any one avatar. The test might be .... would you (personally) expose your grandchild to such a picture as that being used as an avatar? Some might, but a common decency measure could be used. Difficult I know, but one that we might trust Nuke to manage personally.

I only put this as a possible since I own/moderate several non-motorhome fora and moderate/manage on this basis. Over the past 8/9 years, I had only one individual who continually tried it on and pushed the boundaries. That person's loss - they are no longer a member.

Colin


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## Penquin

Thanks to Nuke for his answer and to Zeb for his,

as another ex-Mod I agree totally with both of them :lol: 

IF it was the "bouncing lady" and that is a BIG IF..... I have seen that for months and like Zeb, would also have rejected the report and cleared it for the same reason, the vast majority of people that have seen that are amused, not offended.

If children see it? There are much worse things which children find on the web without any effort at all, as an experienced teacher is well aware, if you put the wrong phrase into Mr Google and hit "I feel lucky" as many students do, the results can be horrific...... hence why school systems have such extensive filtering and protection systems. (But some students can get round those too...... :roll: )

The question is a perfectly reasonable one to ask, and I value the results as it confirms the dilemma we always faced - what is acceptable to some is not to others, where do we go?

Multiple report clarification - thanks Nuke I KNEW we had seen frequent multiple reports but did not know HOW, you have answered that clearly.

Airing such a topic is a sign of strength IMO, not weakness, having the courage to ask an innocuous question and let others try to answer with one voice.......... which cannot happen of course.

So now all of you have a little insight into the tasks that we faced many times every day; funnily enough I really enjoyed the task, not because of the badge or the "power" but actually because I particularly like helping people..........

The power is illusory, but the criticisms that are levelled do hurt - as you have now all seen it is not an easy job, so thank you to Nuke for opening up the discussion....

and everyone else for the multi-faceted answers, there is no right or wrong response, no black or white, simply shades of grey to interpret to the best of one's ability.

Great thread and very interesting to see the wide range of opinions,

Dave


----------



## bognormike

bigbazza said:


> "So what would you do"?
> 
> I'd ask the experienced mods.


we had a few of these over the years about avatars; most of them we didn't consider to be any problem. When it was we asked the member by PM to change it - I can only remember having to do that once, not sure who (and I wouldn't tell anyway!). Nuke has the ultimate sanction to remove it.

I quite enjoy DTP's she has made a comeback, I think?


----------



## aultymer

> So now all of you have a little insight into the tasks that we faced many times every day;


Really???
What a bunch of troublemakers the paying members must be!


----------



## 747

In my view nothing whatsoever has changed.

The same members who went on and on (and on and on :roll: ) about Mods decisions and the ramifications, unfairness, dictatorial attitudes ad nauseum are the same ones picking over the bones of Nukes experiment with no Mods.

The past threads regarding Mods have soon got utterly boring and this thread is going the same way. :evil: 

Why do some people need to know the far end of everything? Have they nothing better to do with their time?

Sorry but I would not be a Mod on this forum even if it was a paid job.


----------



## greygit

Have I got this right that it's Dave's "bouncing" lady that is causing all the fuss?  
Gary


----------



## nukeadmin

> What a bunch of troublemakers the paying members must be!


no only some and not just the paid ones


----------



## Spacerunner

Simply get the offended member to PM the guilty (allegedly) member so they can settle the point discreetly, like a couple of grown-up sensible people. :roll: 

Isn't that what self moderating is all about?


----------



## Penquin

aultymer said:


> What a bunch of troublemakers the paying members must be!


far from it, the avatar question only came up occasionally, like Mike I can remember one, but the Mods could ONLY send a PM, there was no way we could (or would) do anything else. The decision needs to be taken by the person using the avatar; it may well be that they have not seen it in the same way as others do......

Only Nuke could actually remove it and I don't think I ever heard of that being done.

The members are not troublemakers and never will be IMO, everyone is entitled to their views and the opportunity to express it without fear or criticism unless it broke the site rules - which are clearly visible for one and all.

I have to say sorry though aultymer, I pressed "Thanks" in error as I wanted to use the "quote" button but hit the wrong one - think of that as a bonus one for the next time I should thank you! 

Once pressed it cannot be undone - like a detonator for high explosives really........ :lol:

Dave


----------



## nukeadmin

Dave (Penquins) post summarises exactly why i created this thread, for all the years MHF moderators were lynched (virtually) on other sites, the decisions made were glorified in as an example of a police / nazi state, the true status is there is sometimes no right and no wrong answer to an issue,majority of people will not take offence at an issue, a throwaway comment by one person might be dismissed by another, but and its a big but (no pun intended lol 747  ) some people do take offence, some people do not see humour where its intended and instead see sarcasm or worse and this is when "someone" steps in.

In the distant past this was me, a little later this was the moderators, in the present it is myself again and in the future we will see but there is always a need for someone, i won't say a higher authority as those who resent that will be offended lol but a final authority needs to make a decision based on facts, majority opinion and eventually personal opinion.

These things will never change regardless of which site you visit


----------



## erneboy

nukeadmin said:


> there is only a chance if I, or in the past the moderators, had a majority agreement with the reporter


Interesting Nuke, you are saying it used to be a democratic decision made by a majority of those in authority, but now it's a democratic decision made by you.

If I have misunderstood please explain.

Neither of those possibilities could in any way qualify as democratic. Democracy requires the participation of the people, Alan.


----------



## nukeadmin

Alan, you can try and twist my words as many ways as you wish, the end result is i am simply trying to illustrate how difficult the "policing" of a forum can be


----------



## EJB

I have only been offended once on this site....and that was a members comment.
However I find other comments and the occasional avatar *in bad taste * which certainly isn't a problem.
I think that 'bad taste' and 'offensive' are getting mixed up in this case.


----------



## aultymer

I have 'thanked' you, in return, Penguin since it is unlikely you will ever want to thank me for real.

My previous post was questioning your statement re, 'the tasks that we faced many times every day'.

Many times? every day? Do people sit and press the report button that often? If they do, then they should be removed!
Removing that small number would cost less than offending the majority, many of whom were not renewing their membership.


----------



## Zebedee

nukeadmin said:


> Alan, you can try and twist my words as many ways as you wish, the end result is i am simply trying to illustrate how difficult the "policing" of a forum can be


And Alan is helping you magnificently Dave. 

Are you paying him?

You never paid me!!!! 

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## nukeadmin

> I think that 'bad taste' and 'offensive' are getting mixed up in this case.


something that unfortunately happens a lot Ted


----------



## Spacerunner

bognormike said:


> we had a few of these over the years about avatars; most of them we didn't consider to be any problem. When it was we asked the member by PM to change it - I can only remember having to do that once, not sure who (and I wouldn't tell anyway!).


it was most probably me.....and yes it was a bit OTT 8)


----------



## erneboy

nukeadmin said:


> Alan, you can try and twist my words as many ways as you wish, the end result is i am simply trying to illustrate how difficult the "policing" of a forum can be


Not trying to twist your words in any way Nuke. Just trying to understand, I am afraid I can't see any basis for your democracy claim.

However if I am offending you by asking straight forward questions and making reasonable observations I will withdraw from this thread, even though your stated aim in starting it was to discuss the issues, Alan.


----------



## Penquin

I think Nuke is clearly demonstrating the difficulties that are faced by those trying to ensure the smooth running of any forum..

We have had comments from Moderators on other forums (is that the right word for more than one ??? :? ), all expressing exactly the same viewpoint about the difficulties, we have had many people saying that they would not do the job for love nor money......

But still the criticisms are being levelled at one person for trying to show these difficulties, come on, give him a break, there is only so much patience that any of us have and after a time the constant criticisms do hurt........

I have not discussed EVER on the open forum in what way some comments have really caused me a great deal of pain, neither will I do so in the future, but it is not easy to moderate any forum and MHF is lucky in that we have many, highly articulate and very involved members - that is why it is so successful.

I have looked at other motorhome forums and would not wish to partake of them in any way - they are not a patch on MHF which has a great deal of interest for me, I love discussing things, I very rarely lose my cool (ask MrsW about how often that happens  ) and welcome the chance to discuss on here, but after a time the sniping and dissection of every word or typo does cause concerns even for the most placid amongst us.

Dave


----------



## erneboy

Zebedee said:


> And Alan is helping you magnificently Dave.
> 
> Are you paying him?
> 
> You never paid me!!!!
> 
> Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:


An interesting comment Dave. I am questioning what we are being told as part of this discussion, which I remind you Nuke started in order to gather opinions, and you infer that by doing so I am in some way misbehaving.

If I have misunderstood please explain, Alan.


----------



## WhiteCheyenneMan

I see your problem Nuke and I can see what you're trying to achieve, sometimes despite some members best efforts otherwise :wink: 
The woman is fully clothed so, compared with many newspapers, Channel 4 etc. it's a non starter. Just a bit racy to quote an old expression. 747's is more dodgy, but it still makes me smile  

What I find offensive is the attitude and tone of some people on Forums, but not this one. Even when people feel quite strongly about an issue or argument on MHF, it never really gets offensive. Sarcastic sometimes, but not offensive.

But I can think of another Forum which can get very offensive and there are some quite nasty over-opinionated people on it.

I suggest that in the case of this avatar complaint, the reporter is told that: (1) they are the only complainant; (2) having aired their complaint on the Forum, there is a vocal majority who disagree with them; (3) you hope that this does not spoil their enjoyment and the value to be gained by being a member of this Forum.


----------



## Zebedee

erneboy said:


> If I have misunderstood please explain, Alan.


You have misunderstood Alan.

It was a joke. :wink:

I used to do them quite often when people let things get under their skin. It often defused what might have become an acrimonious exchange.

Old habits die hard I'm afraid.

Dave


----------



## 747

WhiteCheyenneMan said:


> I see your problem Nuke and I can see what you're trying to achieve, sometimes despite some members best efforts otherwise :wink:
> The woman is fully clothed so, compared with many newspapers, Channel 4 etc. it's a non starter. Just a bit racy to quote an old expression. 747's is more dodgy, but it still makes me smile
> 
> What I find offensive is the attitude and tone of some people on Forums, but not this one. Even when people feel quite strongly about an issue or argument on MHF, it never really gets offensive. Sarcastic sometimes, but not offensive.
> 
> But I can think of another Forum which can get very offensive and there are some quite nasty over-opinionated people on it.
> 
> I suggest that in the case of this avatar complaint, the reporter is told that: (1) they are the only complainant; (2) having aired their complaint on the Forum, there is a vocal majority who disagree with them; (3) you hope that this does not spoil their enjoyment and the value to be gained by being a member of this Forum.


Careful John. Gnomes have feelings you know.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Quite a serious but amusing thread. It has had me titivated for an hour or so.
If this is the offending avatar , it has been in use frequentky over the past few years.
I am known to change my avatar on a regulaer basis and will continue to do so.
Am I wrong..........


Is it greenie that is causing the trouble.

I wonder if the 5 year old will be allowed to access newspapers, watch the volleyball, ladies track events in the olympics and God forbid stray onto a beach or into a swimming pool

It is not what is shown that counts .
It is how it is perceived by others that does.

Personally I am offended by the Olympic kit for our athletes.
My first thoughts were that only the blue of scotland was represented properly.
Then I remembered that the designers name began with Mc.

Will I complain about it NO.

The attached photo is of a well known tennis player. Is this offensive?


----------



## urbanracer

Yes it rude to stick you tongue out


----------



## aultymer

DTP these pictures have no place on an open forum!




can you email them to me before they get taken down?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:


----------



## greygit

greygit said:


> Have I got this right that it's Dave's "bouncing" lady that is causing all the fuss?
> Gary


Looks like it Gary, pathetic isn't it? 8O


----------



## sal2

Is it illegal - if no then it's the readers problem to deal with in my opinion. What people find offensive varies so widely, you could end up with a drab site where no one dare speak for fear of causing offence. life really is too short.


----------



## asprn

moblee said:


> Is it mine :?: I'm not a Drug baron, there just sugar coated placebo's...Honest


I find your avatar very offensive.

I wish you'd correct the freakin' spelling!!! :evil:

Dougie.


----------



## DABurleigh

Thank you Dougie. Me too. Though, naturally I am far too PC and nice to point it out, unlike some 

Dave


----------



## bigbazza

How can you discuss an Avatar when you don't know which one is the problem?

The Avatarless ones bug me


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

I assume total innocense until charged.

It is a titilating subject though. :roll: 

Dave p

It could be StAubyns, animals bashing each other is realy offensive.


----------



## jimmyd0g

bigbazza said:


> The Avatarless ones bug me


Oi, some of us prefer to keep our good looks to ourselves!! :lol:


----------



## asprn

nukeadmin said:


> ....I like to think we are democracy of sorts here on MHF..


We're not. We're business customers of yours.



nukeadmin said:


> ..and would like to see what the community at large thinks of these type of things


The perception I have is that you're dropping the ball at the feet of your customers who are in actual fact powerless to make any decisions or - in the final analysis - in any position to influence the course of the business. I've not come across such a business model.



nukeadmin said:


> ah but don't other sites run as dictatorship where all decisions are guided by a sole person  this is the crux of the issues with forums IMHO, people are people, some want safe, peaceful, "policed" environment, whereas others want free speech, it's a tough line to walk


Dave, once again, you require good, sound commercial judgement to make the correct decision for the future of your business. If you are experienced in making proper business decisions, then go ahead and make the right one. If you are not, then IMO the last place you should be asking for advice is from your customers. My sense is that you are playing catch-up in the commercial judgement arena, perhaps having been previously content to offload the responsibility to the moderators.



nukeadmin said:


> ....This then begs the issue how many reports before action is taken  See it is a democracy


It absolutely is not. I find it astonishing that you are dressing it up in this way! Are you really trying to involve your customers in future policy, or are you in a roundabout way giving us some insight into how difficult it can be to moderate a forum, so that we will be more understanding when you implement the next stage of your business plan for the forum which you've already decided? It's up to you whichever is true (or perhaps both), but I am left with the distinct feeling that it's the latter.



nukeadmin said:


> _Maybe there should have been a question, asked of the general membership, a number of days ago: "Does MotorhomeFacts need moderators?" That might have elicited some interesting (and perhaps, more important) replies._
> Well having seen some members comments elsewhere I think I know what the answers would have been


So where's the democracy argument here? This suggestion is probably one of the most valid ones made, but here we are being shepherded down a lane about an avatar, when really the discussion was always going to be about overall methods of supervision and enforcement.



nukeadmin said:


> I am not "dragging" members into anything, I am asking them a simple question, would you rather I simply take a more officious route then i.e. ban left right and chelsea, no comments allowed, swift, instant justice ?


With respect, you are. Make your judgements based on what you know to be right for your business, and let the forum get on with its _raison d'etre_ - discussions. Your judgement will include your own risk assessment about how many (of any disciplinary persuasion) will not like your decisions and leave. There are lots of shades of grey between your two black and white extremes, Dave.



nukeadmin said:


> This would certainly offer us the path of least resistance but not always the most efficient long term once everyone has left the site (or been banned)


Not sure who you're referring to as "us"? If you mean you & your staff, then I understand. If you mean your customers aka the forum members, then I certainly don't.



nukeadmin said:


> My main point to this thread was to make users think about what goes on in the back end of mhf, and Other forums of course. What decisions have to be made, how to come to a decision etc


But why? Consistent firm-but-fair policies work for the common good in families, communities, clubs, councils, right up to governments. Again with respect Dave, trying to make your customers aware of the difficult aspects of managing your business, simply undermines your position rather than enhances it in the name of openness. You won't please all of the people all of the time, but you know that. If you have a business model, it will include projected customer losses based on that model, regardless of where you place your line in the sand in respect of enforcing forum content.



nukeadmin said:


> lol apparently I should just be a dictator Jason and be done with it


Perhaps then you are vacillating after all, and really do want customers' opinions before making your commercial decisions. I find it amazing that you would expose yourself publicly like this as MD. 

In the final analysis Dave, this is your business, not ours. It's one thing asking customers for suggestions on a wish-list about new site features, but having a public debate about what can only ever be your own commercial judgement and decisions and calling it "democracy", is IMO foolish. I hope you can see past my words and understand that this is in no way vitriolic or personal. It's my comments and opinions about what you've raised, based on half a lifetime creating and running businesses (plus the other half looking beyond words and seeing bigger pictures).

This therefore has nothing to do with avatars, and everything to do with how you run your business. Whatever is decided, only you should decide it. 

Dougie.


----------



## raynipper

bigbazza said:


> How can you discuss an Avatar when you don't know which one is the problem?
> 
> The Avatarless ones bug me


11 pages of going round and round getting absolutely no where.!!!

As far as I can see none of us now what the 'problem' is. Even if it is a problem and to how many?

Nuke, I will willing take the responsibility of deciding what is acceptable and what is not. I will give em a fair trial and hang em in the morning.

On another point Nuke, have you noticed a drop off of 'traffic'..??

Ray.


----------



## carol

Boring thread perhaps it should be closed or deleted. Dave I am surprised you started it.

Sorry

Carol

As an aside, avatar hasn't bothered me, only in as much as another member also found it distracting, but I used to love spykals giraffe and think he should bring it back


----------



## KeithChesterfield

Avatars?

11 pages of opinions and getting nowhere fast.

A lovely sunny day and all you can discuss is a flipping Avatar.

You want to get out more.

Rant over.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

KeithChesterfield said:


> Avatars?
> 
> 11 pages of opinions and getting nowhere fast.
> 
> A lovely sunny day and all you can discuss is a flipping Avatar.
> 
> You want to get out more.
> 
> Rant over.


And who`s avatar do you think is the basis of this thread.
And your valued opinion is.........

Well done nuk efor getting so much attention. :wink: 
Dave p


----------



## barryd

Jeeez!!!! Is the bar open yet?

No not the subs bar the Hank Bar!!!


----------



## jimmyd0g

KeithChesterfield said:


> Avatars?
> 
> 11 pages of opinions and getting nowhere fast.
> 
> A lovely sunny day and all you can discuss is a flipping Avatar.
> 
> You want to get out more.
> 
> Rant over.


Well you didn't have to come on here & comment if you think the thread has gone on too long, did you? :roll: If you don't like the direction a thread is going in, why not try ignoring it?


----------



## pneumatician

If i see much more of the Playtex add I will go crosseyed.

Thread is getting almost as good as Generators, well long anyway.

Steve


----------



## greenasthegrass

Don't bring me into this I think it's a load of pants!


----------



## erneboy

Nuke has been sparing with his thanks on this thread. Though he has thanked Greenie for saying it's a load of pants. 

Surely you could have predicted the general direction of the discussion Nuke, very little of it is new. If the views expressed are unwelcome why invite comment in the first place?

Have I misunderstood again?

I want to apologise to Dave/Zebedee for having misunderstood a jokey post he made a little while ago. I took it as criticism of my views which he assures me it was not, Alan.


----------



## geraldandannie

I think Dougie's post is spot on.

Since MHF is a democracy, I presume the mods voted themselves out of a job?

I think the sooner we stop blathering around over how the forum should or shouldn't be run, and get back to discussing motorhomes etc, the better. We're here because we like the content, not because we admire how the forum is run, or because we appreciate what goes on behind the scenes.

Gerald


----------



## aldra

_Though he has thanked Greenie for saying it's a load of pants. _

I noticed that too

I think he just likes her avatar 8O 8O :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## lesanne

Nuke,it seems as you.ve made a decision ,disbanding the mods.new things ahead ,STICK with it ,,son,,don.t really think you will loose many friends in whatever your trying to do ..good luck with it all Les..


----------



## aldra

He might :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## barryd

I like greenies avatar. Those ankles almost rival mrs d's (almost) but she wouldn't wear red pants. Auburn hair you see.


----------



## bigbazza

This isn't helping, I keep thinking about things and forget what the thread is all about 8O


----------



## aldra

Good for you bigbazza

There's life in the old dog(s) yet

Aldra


----------



## erneboy

You lot disgust me. Keep it up!


----------



## GEMMY

Instead of what would we do, why hasn't the reported post on the golf etiquette thread been sorted yet :wink: 

tony


----------



## 2years2go

Hi. Fairly new and post rarely. There is one particular avatar that I find offensive but felt as a newcomer that it wasn't my place to complain. I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. I don't read that particular person's posts. 1. because I find the avatar so offensive to look at and 2. because I can't image taking advice from a person who would post such an avatar. So in effect I censor him myself. Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)


----------



## bigbazza

Which Avatar is that Lisa, a lot of us are curios.


----------



## aldra

I know where you are coming from Lisa

but sometimes you just need to get to know the person behind that avatar

to find out they are a gem

Aldra


----------



## GEMMY

Can't be me, I have yet to find how to get one :wink: 

tony


----------



## 2years2go

Well Barry I'm sure you're just being mischievious and can guess - however you know when you're watching sport and some unfortunate participant gets a blow to the goolies and every male in the room whinces? Well it's the female equivalent of that! IMO ONLY neither fun nor funny. Cheers Lisa


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

2years2go said:


> Hi. Fairly new and post rarely. There is one particular avatar that I find offensive but felt as a newcomer that it wasn't my place to complain. I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. I don't read that particular person's posts. 1. because I find the avatar so offensive to look at and 2. because I can't image taking advice from a person who would post such an avatar. So in effect I censor him myself. Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)


If you are reffering to my avatar and that you do not read my posts it really makes me smile.
I usually change my avatar on a regular basis, the same as my socks pants and political views.

Dave p still wondering who is the guilty one?
If it is me and I changed my avatar to the one last week you would see a frog catching a fly.


----------



## aldra

Now Gemmy (Tony)

If you could find out how to get an avatar

What would it be :lol: :lol: :lol:

Suggestions on a postcard please

Would not want to add further embarrassment to the thread :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## 2years2go

Hi Aldra. Yes of course you're right but I'm saying without the benefit of a history behind us an avatar does represent you and your personality.

I also am aware this avatar comes and goes. Perhaps subconsciously I take more notice of the posts posted under the other avatars.

BTW would never have made an official or public complaint as I recognise it may simply be me and that if others with a longer history found it offensive I'm sure they would have said so.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Do they play beach volleyball on the beaches near Brisbane.

Dave p


----------



## aldra

Lisa

when you get to know that person behind the avatar

you sometimes find the avatar is spot on

and it seems totally different to the way you first interpreted it

Aldra


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Very true aldra. 747 is not a bum with his head buried in the sand. :lol: 

Dave p


----------



## 2years2go

But back to the original question - I guess if enough people complain, not just wowser me, then the member could be approached and asked for the avatar to be removed. And just because it's been there for months without complaint doesn't in my book make it ok. If the site is still attracting new members it will be the first time they come across it. We all pay our $18.58 - everyone's opinion is equally valid. my last post on the matter. thank you. Lisa


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Lisa I am sorry if I offended you, but to have an avatar is better than having none.
Thats my opinion.

Dave p


----------



## aldra

_Very true aldra. 747 is not a bum with his head buried in the sand. 
_

Well that's blown my theory

Back to the drawing board :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## 747

I think my avatar is fairly accurate of my take on life (and I have seen a lot more life than most I would think :lol: ).

Never judge a book by its cover. :wink: 

Back on topic ..... what was the question again?


----------



## aldra

I've forgotten what the question was 747

Shall we try a new one????

Aldra :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## iceman1956

You can please: 
All of the people some of the time
Some of the people all of the time
But you can NEVER please All of the people All of the time.
That's a fact of Life!! :roll:


----------



## elainekirk

This thread is awesome!! friendly banter, opinions , and disagreements scattered throughout , nobody has had a problem expressing themselves and yet the thread came about because somebody didn't want to express an opinion openly.
all I can say is that I am mystified as to why, yes it may start a heated debate but ain't that part and parcel of forum life? An essential part!


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Getting back to the OP, 

What would you do?







I would post it in Off Topic.



Until seamus comes alog and then it would end up in the Subs Lounge.


Dave p


----------



## dinger

*Avatars*

As the great Corperal Jones might of said

" permission to carry on looking at the offending ,bouncy things Captain Mannering "

8O


----------



## geraldandannie

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> What would you do? I would post it in Off Topic.


As I said a while ago, I can't think what this thread has to do with Motorhome Chit Chat. I'd report it, and suggest it was moved, only I've noticed there aren't many mods around these days :wink:

Maybe someone should start a new thread, asking the membership if the thread should be moved, or stay where it is. Oh, the problems :lol:

Gerald


----------



## rogerblack

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Very true aldra. 747 is not a bum with his head buried in the sand. :lol:
> 
> Dave p


Oh, yeah? 8) :lol:


----------



## 747

rogerblack said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true aldra. 747 is not a bum with his head buried in the sand. :lol:
> 
> Dave p
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah? 8) :lol:
Click to expand...

Thanks for contributing Roger.

At last we can all see the horrible offensive avatar which has caused so much trouble. :lol:

Gotta say that I have almost pressed the report button myself for the same reason.


----------



## rogerblack

2years2go said:


> . . . I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. . . . Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)


Errmmm - your avatar appears to be non-existent, Lisa . . . isn't that a strange choice as a public representation of oneself? :?: :!:


----------



## Zebedee

rogerblack said:


> 2years2go said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. . . . Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)
> 
> 
> 
> Errmmm - your avatar appears to be non-existent, Lisa . . . isn't that a strange choice as a public representation of oneself? :?: :!:
Click to expand...

That thought struck me too Roger, but I declined to comment since I also appear to resemble that remark at the moment. :roll:

I do have an avatar in fact . . . think about it! :wink:

Dave :lol:


----------



## bigbazza

I don't understand, you now have a space where previously you had aaaaaaaaaaaaa 8O oh oh I get you 8)


----------



## bigbazza

rogerblack said:


> 2years2go said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. . . . Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)
> 
> 
> 
> Errmmm - your avatar appears to be non-existent, Lisa . . . isn't that a strange choice as a public representation of oneself? :?: :!:
Click to expand...

Eh leave our little Ozzy newcomer alone, she'll think we're all nasty on this site 

I know it's the middle of the night down their Lisa but come out fighting when you awake in your morning


----------



## aldra

still think you should go with Dougle or maybe Florence, Dave

Peter Sellers ruined Magic Roundabout for me years ago :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## rogerblack

bigbazza said:


> rogerblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2years2go said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . I consider an avatar as a public representation of myself. . . . Cheers Lisa (who by the way comes from very non-PC Australia)
> 
> 
> 
> Errmmm - your avatar appears to be non-existent, Lisa . . . isn't that a strange choice as a public representation of oneself? :?: :!:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eh leave our little Ozzy newcomer alone, she'll think we're all nasty on this site
> 
> I know it's the middle of the night down their Lisa but come out fighting when you awake in your morning
Click to expand...

No offence intended, just a fairly obvious comment.
I've loved every Aussie I've ever met and found them more than capable of returning banter with knobs on.

When you do get out of bed, Lisa - G'day sport! :wink:


----------



## bigbazza

It's a bit late trying to get round her now Roger, wouldn't like to be in your shoes, you know how competitive our cousins are :lol:


----------



## Jezport

Whoa! 16 pages on this topic is offensive :lol:


----------



## aldra

Why?

Aldra


----------



## bigbazza

Why not press the report button Jez


----------



## bigbazza

If we had any Mods, I'd ask them to rename the topic to:-

How to keep a bunch of idiots in suspense. :lol:


----------



## aldra

What and blow up the whole of MHF??

Now that is taking it too far :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## Jezport

aldra said:


> Why?
> 
> Aldra


Cos I got bored after 5 pages and have now realise I suffer from some kind of attention deficit thingumy :lol:


----------



## aldra

I'm not sure there is a cure for that

Try Google-ing it

Aldra :lol: :lol:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Calling me an Idiot like the rest!
mmm,
I didnt start it. 



Did I ?


Dave p


----------



## 2years2go

Well i guess that's just the point. Didn't intend to have any personality on this forum. Post a photo? Jesus, it was hard enough to pay with a foreign credit card!

Have had a motorhome in the UK but my knowledge pales in comparison to most of yours except on licencing and insurance. could write a book on those!

So I dip in and out in case there is something useful for my database. Joined primarily to search forums. I left this thread run for a few days but when i visited again it was still running albeit in a closed club/jokey sort of way. Thought I'd give you my outsider/ probably younger bolshy sort of female view. I didn't complain or start the thread but I'm obviously not alone in my thoughts.

Now if you don't have a question about the impossibility of insurance for non-residents I'll be off.

Promise to find an avatar if I ever start a post.


----------



## Scattycat

Having been involved in the past with other sites I can appreciate how you feel. At least if you bring back a moderating team you can spread the blame and no-one can accuse you of being a little dictator :roll: 

You say the avatar has been in use for a long time and has only been complained about recently and only the once

Do you find it offensive? even in hindsight
Is the person who has complained a regular contributor?

If the answer to both the above questions is no then the answer is easy.

If the first answer is yes then your action is also easy but you may be asked why it has taken so long to come to that descision.

As you say, you're the admin man and no matter what you do you'll be struck off one of their christmas card lists :lol:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Come on nuke stop hiding behind the curtains. Who`s avatar is the reason for this friendly thread

Clever man methinks.

Getting some life in a tired wekend of traffic :wink: .

Dave p


----------



## eddievanbitz

The bigger the site gets the more complaints you will get! You will attract more and more people that think that just because they complain that others will agree with their views!

I for one am getting bored by people's unrealistic expectationsas to what should happen because they're offended!

With seventy million people in the world it is impossible to think that you could say anything without offending someone!

Perhaps some should grow a thicker skin or simply ignore things that they dislike?

I have friends, none of them the same that all have idiosyncratic and annoying traits. I ignore the things I dislike and enjoy the things I like without trying to change everything to suit my view of life!

Eddie


----------



## aldra

2yrs2go 

True you do not have an avatar, you do however have a username 2years to go to what ? and you most certainly have a personality

You say this thread is still running in a closed club/ jokey sort of way
yet there are over 52 contributors to it, it has a serious and non serious side true, members banter with each other but a closed club it is not

There are loads of other threads that are seriously helpful and full of information on every aspect of motor homing where your knowledge and expertise will be very welcome

This thread is not really about an avatar but rather how and who decides when someone or something is offensive 

True there are areas where the boundaries are quite irrefutably clear and breaches cannot and should not be tolerated 

and others like this which can be down to personal interpretation which is why there are so many different viewpoints

Aldra


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Aldra ,I do so wish I was as eloquent with words as yourself.  
Instead of being a reformed dyslexic.  

Dave p


----------



## tonyt

My two pennyworth (spelling?)

I think we've all been brainwashed into accepting, and condoning, the concept of "if someone is offended by something, then that something is wrong and must be eliminated"

It should not be about whether or not someone feels offended, it should be about whether or not offence was intended.


If people are so very touchy as to be offended by something that was not intended as offence then they have the problem, not the rest of us.

So, to mod a reported/apparently offensive item - just make a decision on whether or not YOU believe offence was intended and take appropriate action.

Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## Zebedee

aldra said:


> There are loads of other threads that are seriously helpful and full of information on every aspect of motor homing where your knowledge and expertise will be very welcome
> Aldra


Spot on Aldra. :wink:

It would be nice to think that 2years2go would be willing to give of her knowledge and expertise before making unkind comments about a "closed club" . . . which MHF most certainly is not.



2years2go said:


> So I dip in and out in case there is something useful for my database. Joined primarily to search forums.


The more active members of MHF have got to know each other and have become "virtual" friends . . . hence the banter and jokey aspect of many basically serious threads. Life's too short to be permanently po-faced, even when discussing something quite important! :roll:

I suggest she joins in, and gives as well as taking. :wink: She will then be welcomed by everyone, and will become a valued member of the "club" - albeit one which is open to all and everyone welcome.

Dave


----------



## bigbazza

I want to complain about DTP keep teasing us, one minute she's their and next she's been replaced by her sister.
make your mind up man 8O


----------



## Sprinta

heck 17 pages on avatars  

I'm gonna give you all something to think about when I change mine to something more offensive (although some think 2 motorbikes is bad enough :lol: )



It's going to be alternating between a tent and a caravan 8)


----------



## Zebedee

Sprinta said:


> It's going to be alternating between a tent and a caravan 8)


Oh gawd . . . .

Not another dithering div who can't make up his mind!! :roll:

Dave :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## dinger

*Avatar*

Blimmey boys and girls with fuel nudging £1.50 a litre this thread will be doomed ...

8O


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

With fuel soon to be £1.50 a litre we will all be sat contributing diatribe to various forums. :lol: 

Dave p


----------



## eddievanbitz

Actually Dave 

I object to your avatar to be honest. Now as I object and I feel offended the whole world and it's dog must cow tail to me!

I am offended by the woman's shirt! please get another shot with the offending removed!

Offended Eddie :lol:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

bigbazza said:


> I want to complain about DTP keep teasing us, one minute she's their and next she's been replaced by her sister.
> make your mind up man 8O


eddievanbitz:Actually Dave

I object to your avatar to be honest. Now as I object and I feel offended the whole world and it's dog must cow tail to me!

I am offended by the woman's shirt! please get another shot with the offending removed!

Offended Eddie

OK her sister is on now. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave p


----------



## dinger

*Avatar*

..............................G...................O...................................D

B......................L..........................E....................S.............S

America........ 8O 8O 8O 8O  ..... :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


----------



## Sonesta

Spacerunner said:


> Simply get the offended member to PM the guilty (allegedly) member so they can settle the point discreetly, like a couple of grown-up sensible people. :roll:
> 
> Isn't that what self moderating is all about?


What a great and sensible suggestion! :thumbright:

Sue


----------



## bigbazza

What a great and sensible suggestion!

Sensible :?: :?: :?: :?: then it has no place on this forum 8O


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Sonesta I have not had a pm, I would converse with the offended person IF it were to be my doing. I think nuke has played a blinder in introducing changes to the site. Maybe its someone who dislikes two legged horse avatar.

Dave p


----------



## bognormike

Sonesta said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply get the offended member to PM the guilty (allegedly) member so they can settle the point discreetly, like a couple of grown-up sensible people. :roll:
> 
> Isn't that what self moderating is all about?
> 
> 
> 
> What a great and sensible suggestion! :thumbright:
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

All very well, Sue and Spacey, but then you would give away the anonymity of the reporter; leaving him / her open to being pilloried for over-reacting, being an interfering "button-pusher" etc etc, and thereby putting off anybody in future who might want to report something. And that could be something that might be seen by others as trivial, or something like a personal attack or offensive language.


----------



## raynipper

Yeah Mike, we haven't had a good pilloried recently. The way this thread is going without a perp or victim (as I see it) and after all these posts we do need to liven it up a bit.

I'm all for pillorieing someone.

Ray.


----------



## bognormike

I'll throw a few rotten tomatoes....


----------



## raynipper

Yeah. And that rotten Munster cheese.................. Oh my gawd does that stink.... :twisted: 

Ray.

p.s. there is bound to be someone who likes Muster that is now offended. :roll:


----------



## spykal

Please Do this ....scroll back up this thread and at each and every post consider the avatar. If you actually know the person posting then do nowt....but if you do not know them what do you think they are like, judged by the avatar and information contained in the box that accompanies it.

I don't "know" Dave P but from his Bouncing Breasts avatar I am wondering if he really cares what we think of him? But I don't dislike the avatar, in fact it is a bit mesmerizing BUT if I ignore his Bouncing Breasts avatar when wondering what Dave is like and only consider what he says then Dave comes across to me as a thoughtful, caring, kind and often sensitive guy, someone I am happy to spend online time with .....but Dave that Avatar , it lets you down....you're bigger than that ................and that is saying something :lol: :wink: 


Mike


----------



## aultymer

raynipper said:


> Yeah. And that rotten Munster cheese.................. Oh my gawd does that stink.... :twisted:
> 
> Ray.
> 
> Not as much as Bishops finger or is it stinking bishops?
> 
> There we can offend church goers, beer lovers and cheese lovers all at once!


----------



## raynipper

I'm gonna report your post Dave. I like bouncing and perky breasts however they come accross.   

Ray.


----------



## raynipper

aultymer said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. And that rotten Munster cheese.................. Oh my gawd does that stink.... :twisted:
> 
> Ray.
> 
> Not as much as Bishops finger or is it stinking bishops?
> 
> There we can offend church goers, beer lovers and cheese lovers all at once!
> 
> 
> 
> I have got my own Pew. So am invincible.
> 
> Ray.
Click to expand...


----------



## tonyt

raynipper said:


> I'm gonna report your post Dave. Ray.


Who to?? 

(or should that be to whom? I'd hate to offend any pedants watching)


----------



## raynipper

Dunno Tony but the report tab is still there. It must go somewhere..... :wink: 

Ray.


----------



## Sprinta

tonyt said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna report your post Dave. Ray.
> 
> 
> 
> Who to??
> 
> (or should that be to whom? I'd hate to offend any pedants watching)
Click to expand...

I think all pedants should be strung up - then they'd be pendants :lol:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

quote spykal:
I don't "know" Dave P but from his Bouncing Breasts avatar I am wondering if he really cares what we think of him? But I don't dislike the avatar, in fact it is a bit mesmerizing BUT if I ignore his Bouncing Breasts avatar when wondering what Dave is like and only consider what he says then Dave comes across to me as a thoughtful, caring, kind and often sensitive guy, someone I am happy to spend online time with .....but Dave that Avatar , it lets you down....you're bigger than that ................and that is saying something 


    
Gosh you are so correct.
School choir, 
church choir
cubs 
scouts
School orchestra
scout band
Colliery BrassBand
Air Training Corps
Scout Leader
School football coach.
Fund raiser.


And most of all a fun loving chap who would help anyone who needs it.

I have changed the avatar to a lady with smaller whatsits.

What is life without a bit of fun that can be seen on any high street, gym, beach or swimming pool. 
And no I am not a perv neither is any man that admires the female form.
Have any of you been to Florence. Dave is stood in all his glory for all to see. Is this offensive, or am I diverting from the thread.

Dave p


----------



## erneboy

I don't share Spykal's reading of Dave's avatar. Dave is a guy with a great sense of humour and I think his avatar reflects that. It's just a bit of fun, Alan.


----------



## Penquin

Good post but you appear to have missed out some of the required bits for quoting,

only you can change it by editing (apart from Nuke)

but it needs


" name " said:


> then the quote then [ / quote] at the end of the quote (all without any spaces between of course......)
> 
> Hope you can do it , you can only edit for 60 minutes after posting you have made a good point and one I agree with totally,
> 
> Dave


----------



## Sonesta

bognormike said:


> Sonesta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply get the offended member to PM the guilty (allegedly) member so they can settle the point discreetly, like a couple of grown-up sensible people. :roll:
> 
> Isn't that what self moderating is all about?
> 
> 
> 
> What a great and sensible suggestion! :thumbright:
> 
> Sue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All very well, Sue and Spacey, but then you would give away the anonymity of the reporter; leaving him / her open to being pilloried for over-reacting, being an interfering "button-pusher" etc etc, and thereby putting off anybody in future who might want to report something. And that could be something that might be seen by others as trivial, or something like a personal attack or offensive language.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying Mike and I do appreciate that when the report button is pressed - these matters have to handled sensitively, which is why the moderators proved invaluable on this forum and why I think they will be sorely missed by many! But oh - wouldn't it be just wonderful if we could resolve minor issues such as this one by simply just communicating with one and other via a friendly pm? Let's face it, when you think about all the terribly sad and tragic things that happen in the world around us, it makes you wonder why anyone would get quite so het up over what is basically just an amusing and harmless avatar? I know and respect that some people are easily offended by certain animated images but I just feel that there must be simpler ways to handle relatively trivial matters like this without having to involve a third party to sort it out for us! Still - that's just me and perhaps I'm just too easy going about matters of this nature and clearly not everyone shares my attitude or will see life quite how I see it?


----------



## Techno100

nukeadmin said:


> As I am doing far more housekeeping and responding to reports atm, I thought I would pose a question to you guys
> 
> If a user has an avatar that they have had for months and then it is reported as being offensive to that person, what should I do ?
> 
> i.e. Respond by removing the avatar, telling the user it had been reported
> 
> or tell the reporter that I personally do not find it crosses a decency line
> 
> Either way one person gets offended


Sorry not read the thread.
The reporter is probably just trying to create a problem for you. 
Tell them you dont think 1 report from the thousands of participants is sufficient to upset the apple cart. i.e. bog off and get real


----------



## Sonesta

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> quote spykal:
> I don't "know" Dave P but from his Bouncing Breasts avatar I am wondering if he really cares what we think of him? But I don't dislike the avatar, in fact it is a bit mesmerizing BUT if I ignore his Bouncing Breasts avatar when wondering what Dave is like and only consider what he says then Dave comes across to me as a thoughtful, caring, kind and often sensitive guy, someone I am happy to spend online time with .....but Dave that Avatar , it lets you down....you're bigger than that ................and that is saying something
> 
> 
> Gosh you are so correct.
> School choir,
> church choir
> cubs
> scouts
> School orchestra
> scout band
> Colliery BrassBand
> Air Training Corps
> Scout Leader
> School football coach.
> Fund raiser.
> 
> And most of all a fun loving chap who would help anyone who needs it.
> 
> I have changed the avatar to a lady with smaller whatsits.
> 
> What is life without a bit of fun that can be seen on any high street, gym, beach or swimming pool.
> And no I am not a perv neither is any man that admires the female form.
> Have any of you been to Florence. Dave is stood in all his glory for all to see. Is this offensive, or am I diverting from the thread.
> 
> Dave p


By the way, has anyone publicly stated in this thread that they find your 'bouncing boobies' avatar offensive Dave? if not; seeing as this particular thread has attracted a hell of lot of viewings by a hell of a lot of members, I think Nuke has his answer! 8O

Sue


----------



## Zebedee

It's mine that is causing the upset Sue.

It's a blank canvas, left to the imagination of the viewer . . . one of whom obviously has a very mucky mind!! :roll: :lol: :lol: 

Dave :wink:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Sue the simple answer is no.
So it may be anyones avatar. motorhomersimpson had one with a bikini clad young lady running past a couple sat at a table. Maybe its that one :lol: 

I thought zebs was a picture of a foggy day.

Dave p


----------



## 747

Why not divert all the button pressers to me for adjudication?

I will sort the ba.... err complainants out.

In a very sympathetic and gentle manner, naturally. :wink:


----------



## Imbiber

Zebedee said:


> It's mine that is causing the upset Sue.
> 
> It's a blank canvas, left to the imagination of the viewer . . . one of whom obviously has a very mucky mind!! :roll: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave :wink:


I was once told that there is no greater statement than the statement of nothing....stick with it!


----------



## Techno100

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Sue the simple answer is no.
> So it may be anyones avatar. motorhomersimpson had one with a bikini clad young lady running past a couple sat at a table. Maybe its that one :lol:
> 
> I thought zebs was a picture of a foggy day.
> 
> Dave p


His avatar NEVER fails to make me laff :lol: :lol:


----------



## bigbazza

What a good idea 747
No.1 complainant------Kiss it
No.2 complainant------Kiss it and so on.

I vote 747 for the job  



DTP I'm not sure if it offends me, can you put it back whilst I decide


----------



## Cazzie

Gosh Dave, you're really going to upset people with that new avatar!
Don't you think a Union Jack would have been more appropriate.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Cazzie


----------



## Sonesta

I think Nukes just telling us all porkies pies and nobody's really complained about a harmless little avatar at all! :wink:

Sue


----------



## aldra

Cazzie what can you tell them--men

I'm just trying to work out if I carried two balls covered in the same fabric as my dress would it work for me

Still in the planning stage and he's changed the avatar :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Tennis , rugby, or footballs.

Dave p


----------



## aldra

Still (or was) trying to work that out

Definately
not tennis balls

considered golf balls but discarded that line of approach

Aldra :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

7715 views and 206 responses,
not bad for a "non event"

Dave p


----------



## hippypair

This must be one of the most pointless topics ever discussed on MHF,and shows to me how this site has gone from bad to worst in the 6 years I have been a member.
As Nuke dispensed with Mods it is down to him to police the site as he wishes.


----------



## bigbazza

When are you going to put your Avatar library into the MHF Photo Galery DTP :?:


----------



## nukeadmin

Well this thread and a few PMs i received gave me an idea,

firstly we approached this thread under the premise that a person was offended, but alternatively we have the scenario (PMd to me) whereby a user might wish to browse MHF from work, that office setup might be a very PC environment and although the user himself isn't bothered at all, he cannot browse the site in case a bit of harmless fun avatar suddenly pops up

Sooooooooo I have spent time coding in the ability to do the following:

1. Hide / Show all avatars in threads
2. Hide / Show all signatures in threads

you toggle the settings easily in your forum profile page so this will allow those who might be offended to switch off all avatars and the same goes for users browsing from work 

Hopefully these simple options will appease all


----------



## Sonesta

Zebedee said:


> It's mine that is causing the upset Sue.
> 
> It's a blank canvas, left to the imagination of the viewer . . . one of whom obviously has a very mucky mind!! :roll: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Dave :wink:


I'm well and truly shocked Dave! I always thought of you as a true gentleman but I was obviously incorrect! :wink: By the way - I've never seen one as BIG as that before!!!!!! 8O

Sue


----------



## aldra

Pointless, maybe( I think not) but fun

we are a long time dead :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Aldra


----------



## bigbazza

hippypair said:


> This must be one of the most pointless topics ever discussed on MHF,and shows to me how this site has gone from bad to worst in the 6 years I have been a member.
> As Nuke dispensed with Mods it is down to him to police the site as he wishes.


But Nuke started it! 8O


----------



## aldra

_By the way - I've never seen one as BIG as that before!!!!!! _

Sue my love, you really do have to get out more

Aldra :lol: :lol:


----------



## hippypair

bigbazza said:


> hippypair said:
> 
> 
> 
> This must be one of the most pointless topics ever discussed on MHF,and shows to me how this site has gone from bad to worst in the 6 years I have been a member.
> As Nuke dispensed with Mods it is down to him to police the site as he wishes.
> 
> 
> 
> But Nuke started it! 8O
Click to expand...

Exactly.


----------



## aldra

Onn day I an going to learn how to do that "select and expand " thing

One day   :lol:

Aldra


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

aldra said:


> Onn day I an going to learn how to do that "select and expand " thing
> 
> One day   :lol:
> 
> Aldra


Expand, wow we are into the footballs.

I knew nuke was up to something.

Is the new policy going to influence other sites.

I doubt it.
Dave p
I have bowed to member pressure and returned to my freind Suzie. :lol:


----------



## greenasthegrass

She's got a very slack cooper's ligament! 

Big pants atcha! I think you may find I got the first avatar complaint a few years ago just the one but I was told to remove it pdq!

Greenie


----------



## aldra

greenasthegrass

explain ,what is a slack Coopers ligament, and how can I get one

Well just the exact amount of slack you understand

Tell more what was your offending avatar

Ohh if only I was younger the avatars I could choose

If I hid my age would it help do you think???

Aldra :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bigbazza

What ever you do Aldra, don't encourage Greenie 8O


----------



## aldra

You don,t understand

A women has to do what a women has to do

I think 8O 8O :lol: :lol:

Aldra


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

yeah , get the balloons out :lol: :lol: 

I will have to go to bed.
Enough tiling and falling down juice for one night.

Dave p


----------

