# Am I being prosecuted for parking on Denia Beach?



## brimo

Hi Everyone

Just got back from two months away and have just recieved a registered letter which bears the title

NOTIFICACION DEL ACUERDO DE INICIACION Y PLIEGO DE GARGOS DEL EXPEDIENTE SANCIONADOR (_A NUMBER HERE_), INCOADO CONTRA _My Name here_

My Spanish isn't brilliant but the 3 page letter then goes on to to explain in para 1 that, from what I can make out, on 10th March, a Guardia Civil Officer, servicio de Proteccion de la Naturaleza, saw me encamped on the beach with my motorhome, (reg number correctly included) on Playa de Las Marinas, Denia........ una presunta infraccion de las tipificadas en el articulo 90i de la Ley 22/88, de 28 de Julio, de Costas.

The letter contains 3 paragraphs, paragraph 3 contains 6 sub-sections and sub-section 6 contains 5 sections. From what I can make out Para 6 sub-section c has wording which appears to imply that there is a fine of 30.05 euros per metro minimum with a maximum applying to me Cheyenne 696 of 240.40 euro's 

To bring you up to speed we did park on the Las Marinas beach on the night of the 9th March along with about 12 other motorhomes. It was a quiet night.

On or about 11 am on morning of 10th two Guardia Civil Officers on cross country trial bikes rode from the beach to the left and asked for our details as well as that of the van. We were up and about at that time (in fact I wasn't at the van and my wife had to summons me by radio to let me know the Guardia were there)

The two Officers were very civil. They told us we could not sleep in the van on the beach. We were not planning to stay on the beach the following night and told them that we were only staying for the day. They told us they had no problem with that and left very amiable as that night Liverpool were playing Real Madrid and, being a Scouser, i ribbed them about the forthcoming game.

From what I can make out with the document it mentions nothing about overnight stays but seems to imply we have broken the law by simply parking on the beach. It looks like there may be a 240.40 euros payment request coming our way.

In the 8 weeks away this was the only time we parked on a beach.

This letter mentions nothing about how to pay this fine but i dread that it is simply a notice that we are going to get done 

What do you guys think? I have seached MHF but cannot find reference to anything similar apart from the couple who were fined 900 euro's for the dog on the beach.


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## JockandRita

Sorry Brimo,

I can't help you, but at least it's near the top of the pile again for a short while. :wink: 

Good luck with this one.

Jock.


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## Sharnor

If you go onto Google translate - you will get your answer. Looks like you are being prosectuted


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## brimo

The title translates as



> TITLE
> Notification in the agreement of initiation and charge sheet of the file sanctions dor san, begun against Brian Joseph Cross METRIC TON De Denia


Section c, para c looks to read something like



> c)
> That for the mentioned infraction, 184 Art. section d) of the General Regulation for the development and execution of the Law do Coasts, establishes that in the case of the encamped one in zone of dominion I publish marine terrestrial, the sanction sera of 30,05 Euros by square meter occupied and day. Considering that the minimal occupation of a autocaravana is of eight meters squared, the sanction is considered in principle in the amount of 240,4 Euros, notwithstanding which it is from the instruction.


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## Mike48

When I had my one and only confrontation with the authorities about wildcamping in Spain a notice warning me not to park in the area overnight was placed on my windscreen; otherwise prosecution would follow.

If you were being prosecuted I would have thought that you would have been issued with an enforcement notice. The Spanish love paperwork! Having said that I seem to recall that there are notices all over the access points to the Denia beach warning that overnighting is prohibited but it has been some years since I've been there.

That said I would be suspicious. Is it possible for you to go on to an online forum that exist to help expats? Not entirely relevant to your situation Iknow but it is possible that a Brit living out there might be able to help.


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## brimo

Yes, I am aware of the notices they seem to be everywhere in Spain but this was late morning, there was no sign that we had been over-sleeping and were only parked on the beach. The Officer told us we were OK to park there but not that coming night !!

I am gob-smacked to recieve this as it was a friendly encounter.

The other thing is... "Where are the notices saying its a 240 euro fine or why didn't the officer tell me that"

I have received a notice on the windscreen in the past but this is different.


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## Mike48

I appreciate it was mid morning but you might have been observed during the night. But, as I said, it looks suspicious and you are right to be cautious.

Please post how this concludes because many of us might be subject to a similar occurrence legal or otherwise.


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## C7KEN

You have the right to park on any carpark providing it is 100 metres from the beach but must move on next day. I dont consider Denia a safe place to park on the beach. That is why it was not included on my list of safe places on the costa's which I posted on here. I think I have parked where you were during daytime and it is fine for that but if I am correct you were on the hard packed sand next to palms and it is not 100metres from the sandy beach but is more or less next to it. I did post a letter on here which if you had downloaded it you could have shown it to the garda and got their approval (or dis approval)then you would have known what to do. The garda are getting very difficult as they are needing more money. The spanish are not a clever race and don,t realise that they are only shooting themselves in the foot by doing things like this. Translate the complete letter  but I expect they want to fine you. If you intend to come back here then you will have to pay it if not coming back ignore it. If you want scan the letter and send it to me and my wife will translate it for you. If I have it within the next 4 hours I will let my Spanish friends from the Alicante club read it and see if there is a way of getting round it. We will be wild camping with them on Sunday. They can all park for 48hours as they have a letter to that effect but they still have to comply with the rules regarding no awnings, cookers, tables, etc. however they being Spanish know how to overcome some of the rules.


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## loddy

C7KEN

Where do I find your list and letter I have done a quick search and found nowt

Loddy


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## C7KEN

Hi Loddy
See http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-57501-.html

I know more good places but tried to keep the file size small. Look at location then you can see a photo in the Webshots link. Print off what you need


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## kijana

There is another approach to the question of Spanish fines. The following happened to me in my first month of fulltiming, just down the coast from Denia, a couple of years ago.

My wife & I drove our little Smart TOAD into town to go to the street market. Found a gap in a long line of Spanish cars, & parked in it, congratulating ourselves on having such a small car for tiny spaces.

When we came back with all our shopping, we found a police 'no parking' tape had been stretched all along the row of cars, & every one had a notice of fine stuck on the windscreen. They wanted 80 Euros!

We found a local policeman, & tried to get him to show us where the 'no parking' signs were hiding, but he just gave a bored shrug. And it's probably not a good idea to get stroppy with a policeman toting a big gun. . .

So we drove back to the campsite feeling glum. Asking around, many suggested not paying the fine, but we wanted to stay for a few more weeks, and had the only Brit-reg Smart in town. I thought about it for a few days, then went to the local police station with the pink fine notice.

A solitary fat policeman was on duty. I produced the pink paper, & his little piggy eyes wrinkled with delight.

Then I pulled out my chequebook and asked to whom I should make the cheque payable.

'No', he said. 'Only money'.

Choosing to ignore the philosophical interpretation of this statement, I told him I had no money, & turned out my previously-emptied pockets to demonstrate this. Once again I asked who to write the cheque to.

He got cross now, and repeated 'Money, money!' and pulled out a fat roll of high denomination Euro notes from his back pocket to underline his meaning to the stupid foreign tourist. Where, one wonders, was the fine going if I were to hand over 80 Eurosworth of used notes? The fat policeman's benefit ball?

I told him again I wanted to pay, but insisted it would have to be by cheque. He was clearly getting bored with this now, and after a string of Spanish invective, told me to go away.

No, says I, I want to pay, indicating the fine slip & my chequebook.

This was too much for the portly persecutor. He picked up the fine notice, screwed it up into a little ball, and hurled it across the tiled floor towards a bin. He raised his chubby hand, pointed at the door, and shouted 'Vamos!!'

So I did. We stayed another 8 weeks in that town, and neither then nor since have heard any more about it.

So the alternative option is to do nothing. I'm not suggesting civil disobedience, only relating a personal experience. And of course, it was a while ago - maybe the System is more desperate now, & more determined to make money from visitors any way it can.

But you could always go to Portugal. The people there make far more effort than the Spaniards, in our view.

Bruce


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## loddy

Thanks Ken

Loddy


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## Fatalhud

Hi Brimo

What I am not clear about is, had you stayed on the beach the previous night or had you arrived that morning and only stayed during the day leaving again before Nightfall

Alan H


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## Zebedee

brimo said:


> To bring you up to speed we did park on the Las Marinas beach on the night of the 9th March along with about 12 other motorhomes. It was a quiet night.


It's there Alan, but rather buried in the inevitably lengthy first post. 

Dave


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## neilmac

kijana said:


> There is another approach to the question of Spanish fines. The following happened to me in my first month of fulltiming, just down the coast from Denia, a couple of years ago.
> 
> My wife & I drove our little Smart TOAD into town to go to the street market. Found a gap in a long line of Spanish cars, & parked in it, congratulating ourselves on having such a small car for tiny spaces.
> 
> When we came back with all our shopping, we found a police 'no parking' tape had been stretched all along the row of cars, & every one had a notice of fine stuck on the windscreen. They wanted 80 Euros!
> 
> We found a local policeman, & tried to get him to show us where the 'no parking' signs were hiding, but he just gave a bored shrug. And it's probably not a good idea to get stroppy with a policeman toting a big gun. . .
> 
> So we drove back to the campsite feeling glum. Asking around, many suggested not paying the fine, but we wanted to stay for a few more weeks, and had the only Brit-reg Smart in town. I thought about it for a few days, then went to the local police station with the pink fine notice.
> 
> A solitary fat policeman was on duty. I produced the pink paper, & his little piggy eyes wrinkled with delight.
> 
> Then I pulled out my chequebook and asked to whom I should make the cheque payable.
> 
> 'No', he said. 'Only money'.
> 
> Choosing to ignore the philosophical interpretation of this statement, I told him I had no money, & turned out my previously-emptied pockets to demonstrate this. Once again I asked who to write the cheque to.
> 
> He got cross now, and repeated 'Money, money!' and pulled out a fat roll of high denomination Euro notes from his back pocket to underline his meaning to the stupid foreign tourist. Where, one wonders, was the fine going if I were to hand over 80 Eurosworth of used notes? The fat policeman's benefit ball?
> 
> I told him again I wanted to pay, but insisted it would have to be by cheque. He was clearly getting bored with this now, and after a string of Spanish invective, told me to go away.
> 
> No, says I, I want to pay, indicating the fine slip & my chequebook.
> 
> This was too much for the portly persecutor. He picked up the fine notice, screwed it up into a little ball, and hurled it across the tiled floor towards a bin. He raised his chubby hand, pointed at the door, and shouted 'Vamos!!'
> 
> So I did. We stayed another 8 weeks in that town, and neither then nor since have heard any more about it.
> 
> So the alternative option is to do nothing. I'm not suggesting civil disobedience, only relating a personal experience. And of course, it was a while ago - maybe the System is more desperate now, & more determined to make money from visitors any way it can.
> 
> But you could always go to Portugal. The people there make far more effort than the Spaniards, in our view.
> 
> Bruce


Quite normal for cheques to be refused in Spain, Cash rules here, rarely will shops take cheques and even government offices take no cheques or cards - they even supply cash machines for you to draw your cash from if you have none.

You would, of course, expect to get an official receipt for any cash handed over 

Neil


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## loughrigg

brimo said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> Just got back from two months away and have just recieved a registered letter which bears the title
> 
> NOTIFICACION DEL ACUERDO DE INICIACION Y PLIEGO DE GARGOS DEL EXPEDIENTE SANCIONADOR (_A NUMBER HERE_), INCOADO CONTRA _My Name here_
> 
> My Spanish isn't brilliant but the 3 page letter then goes on to to explain in para 1 that, from what I can make out, on 10th March, a Guardia Civil Officer, servicio de Proteccion de la Naturaleza, saw me encamped on the beach with my motorhome, (reg number correctly included) on Playa de Las Marinas, Denia........ una presunta infraccion de las tipificadas en el articulo 90i de la Ley 22/88, de 28 de Julio, de Costas.
> 
> The letter contains 3 paragraphs, paragraph 3 contains 6 sub-sections and sub-section 6 contains 5 sections. From what I can make out Para 6 sub-section c has wording which appears to imply that there is a fine of 30.05 euros per metro minimum with a maximum applying to me Cheyenne 696 of 240.40 euro's
> 
> To bring you up to speed we did park on the Las Marinas beach on the night of the 9th March along with about 12 other motorhomes. It was a quiet night.
> 
> On or about 11 am on morning of 10th two Guardia Civil Officers on cross country trial bikes rode from the beach to the left and asked for our details as well as that of the van. We were up and about at that time (in fact I wasn't at the van and my wife had to summons me by radio to let me know the Guardia were there)
> 
> The two Officers were very civil. They told us we could not sleep in the van on the beach. We were not planning to stay on the beach the following night and told them that we were only staying for the day. They told us they had no problem with that and left very amiable as that night Liverpool were playing Real Madrid and, being a Scouser, i ribbed them about the forthcoming game.
> 
> From what I can make out with the document it mentions nothing about overnight stays but seems to imply we have broken the law by simply parking on the beach. It looks like there may be a 240.40 euros payment request coming our way.
> 
> In the 8 weeks away this was the only time we parked on a beach.
> 
> This letter mentions nothing about how to pay this fine but i dread that it is simply a notice that we are going to get done
> 
> What do you guys think? I have seached MHF but cannot find reference to anything similar apart from the couple who were fined 900 euro's for the dog on the beach.


Have you tried faxing/emailing a copy of the letter to the Spanish embassy for a transalation? Alternatively, there have been posts on MHF from Spanish motorhomers (try searching for Santander) who might respond to a PM.

Mike


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## brimo

I have photographed the document now and hoping that a feloow MHF'er's wife can translate for me.

More soon, hopefully.


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## brimo

Still awaiting the member to pick up our Pm to him. Is there anyone else out there who can translate the document which we have now photographed and can send by email?

Thanks in advance :lol:


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## celerybacon

hi its people like you that give motorhomes a bad name by parking on the beach.i hope you fine gets increased to 10,000 euros and your motorhome gets seized. ha ha ha
only joking . when i was in denia i never had problems parking on the beach.
liverpool did well weds night. ha ha


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## Fatalhud

celerybacon said:


> hi its people like you that give motorhomes a bad name by parking on the beach.i hope you fine gets increased to 10,000 euros and your motorhome gets seized. ha ha ha
> only joking . when i was in denia i never had problems parking on the beach.
> liverpool did well weds night. ha ha


I'll have a pint of what your drinking :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

Alan H


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## celerybacon

*peter in spain*

hi did not relalise this post was seen by everyone. hopefully now deleted.


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## GEMMY

Whatever he was on before,looks like he's had a lot more 8O 8O 8O 

tony


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## pippin

Must be the combination of celery and bacon - I must try some.

Second thoughts, no I won't.


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## erneboy

We had a problem in Spain last year, teenagers behaving very badly at an aire all night long. I emailed the Spanish Tourist Board (or equivalent) and eventually got into contact with a very nice chap who was able to communicate with me in excellent English. Sadly Mrs Erneboy has "tidied up" my emails for me and in doing so she has deleted the contact details. 

I suggest you try Google and send it the tourist board asking them for advice. I will email them later today explaining your case and asking what this will mean for Motorhomers, Alan.


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## mikeyv

erneboy, this thread is about six months old, so I guess the matter has been dealt with - wonder what the outcome was?


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## erneboy

Thanks Mikeyv, I did not notice the date of the posting. I may see if I can PM the OP and ask. I am a bit concerned as we are in Spain at the moment, although if fining people was widespread no doubt we would have heard. A quick email to the Tourist Office might shed some light so maybe I will do that today also, Alan.


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## C7KEN

INo this is still an ongoing issue.
The problem seems to be that they accuse Brian (Brimo) of parking in a maritime area ie near the port i guess so my letter of parking permission issued by the ministry of interior and which the Spanish motorhomers have will not help him. I can park anywhere I can see a street sign as long as its 100metres from the sea. However this does not cover maritime areas. I have taken advise from both the Garda and Spanish motorhoming friends and the options are . To ignore it and hope they dont pursue it in which case the fine will be increased. Or to consult a Spanish lawyer and have the fine reduced. The second option is the one favoured by the Spanish as they can run but they can't hide. I have used my letter two times recently to the astonishment of the police who had no option but to leave me alone. Finally DON't park overnight at or near the beach at Denia, Guardamar, Torrevieja because if you do you are asking for trouble. My ears ache with the stories told of problems in these locations. Thieving and damage to bodywork happens constantly. I am about to meet some Dutch friends tomorrow who have just returned from Holland as they had to go back to sort out money and passports etc which they had stolen. Another english friend says they were in one of the areas I said to avoid Nuff said!!! 
I am editing this post because after reading it I thought it painted a very bad pictire of wild camping or parking in Spain. There are many places to park safely. I am in one right now at Campello the lane by the side of the Galp gas station. Last week I visited La Azohia and Cabo de Gata both very safe so dont get worried just use common sense and check your neighbours out. Mine here are English, Swiss, Spanish, French and soon Dutch. No bandits among them but I also have my dog with me picture attached


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## erneboy

Thanks for that Ken. What a lovely dog, we used to have a big Labrador/Alsatian, alas he died two years ago, he was very useful at times. All I had to do was open the door let him out and tell him to sit. We still have a smaller Labrador/Staffordshire she looks useful too but is not nearly as big and so less intimidating. 

I have emailed Tourism Spain asking what Government policy is on parking of Motorhomes at beaches etc. I will post the reply. 

I am reassured to hear that the fine was not for beach parking. Brimo has my sympathy although if it were me I would negotiate and pay it to have done with it, Alan.


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## Hymer1942

*parking Denia*

We used to park on the Marina at Denia but a couple of years ago we got moved on late one night [ unusual ] and now there are lots of signs telling you no Campervans.


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## statenisland

Good afternoon,
Thanks Ken for the list of Spanish aires and wild camping places.
In January 2009 the Nerja aire had been closed by the Mayor, as it was claimed to be on agricultural land. Does anybody know if it has reopened?
Has anybody got the latest information on the car park area to the side of the Ferrara Hotel at Torrox Costa. It got very popular with Motorhomers and the occupiers of the adjacent apartments didn't like it.
I have stayed overnight on the beach at Motril on a couple of occasions with other MHs but more recently I have turned up and there were no other MHs there, so I have moved on. Anybody got any up to date info?
Thanks
Brian


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## erneboy

The following is the reply I got from the Spainish Tourist Office, not much use, just a generic type bugger off reply, Alan.


Dear Mr. xxxxxx,



We are pleased to be able to assist you. Please find attached the information requested:




We include the following link where you can address any inquires you may have regarding Motorhomes in Spain, as well you can call our Traffic Institution tel no. 90224508686 from 10 to 16h. 






Federacion Española de Asociaciones de Autocaravanistas

Areas de Servicio para Autocarvanas

Driving in Spain






For any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Best regards,



TOURSPAIN


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## brimo

Hi Folks

Have just returned from two months in Spain, wild-camping with no problems although we did not go to Denia.

To bring you an update regarding the parking fine on Denia beach we sent in another response after the translation of the second letter from the Spanish pointed out that the police admitted there were no signs pointing out that it was an offence to park there.

We have not heard anything since our submission some three months or so ago. Its a good sign but..... you never know with the spanish :lol:

As Ken said above we do not experience many problems with wild-camping in Spain and have never heard of anyone else getting asked to pay such a fine but we will not be parking at or near Denia beach again.

*Celerybacon - we would appreciate it if you could send your comments to us by pm and not put them on the open forum.*


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## brimo

Ha Ha :lol: 

Just when I wrote that we had heard nowt, today I picked up a 4 page registered letter, all in Spanish  

We are hoping it says that they are having second thoughts, its gonna get translated later so please all keep your fingers crossed. :wink:


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## seanoo

fingers and toes crossed


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## brimo

Bad news guys  Just had the document translated and they still want payment of 240 euro's with the option of further payment being added because I haven't yet paid them.  

Looks like we'll have to pay this huge fine and maybe try to get some recompense later. 

The police stated that everyone was treated the same that day and we know for a fact that they were not. 

We are going to ask on MHF if anyone is near Denia and ask could they pop to the beach and take a photo (obviously not a close-up) to show that vans still park there. It might help our case !!

Will keep you all informed


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## brimo

Hi Everyone

An Update...

We obtained, at a cost of £10 and registered post of £5, an International Giro or Cheque made out to 240.40 Euro's made out to Servicio de Costas as informed and sent it on 19th November to pay this fine and get the subject closed.

Just got the blooming thing back with a short covering letter which is now being translated. :twisted: 

Gawd, this is so annoying when we have gone to the trouble and expense of trying to sort out this payment, very reluctantly.

More soon.


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## brimo

Another Update

The gist of the letter and the returned cheque was...



> we do not accept cheques or International Giro's. We would like you to take cash or transfer money to this totally different name and address than the one we told you to send the cash to previously.


We have now sent all documents to the Spanish Embassy in London asking them how on earth is a foreign tourist to their country supposed to handle all this aggro 

Will let you know when we hear back.


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## goldi

Good morning all,

Ihave just read this last post Is this a genuine fine or a criminal scam.?



norm


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## brimo

No, this has gone on for ages, letters are all official and we were done by the Guardia Civil


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## catzontour

Just read this thread through from the beginning - good grief - haven't they got anything better to do. OK maybe you shouldn't have been parked there overnight but what a worry having all this hassle. Let it be a warning to us all.

Hope you manage to get it sorted soon.

Catz


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## brimo

Let's make one thing very clear, the police arrived about 10.30 in the morning and no mention was made about what we did the night before. The prosecution is simply for parking on the beach. They even told us we could stay for the remainder of the day but that we should not park there overnight that following night which we did not.

As stated earlier the coppers were very nice, the conversation was friendly and they NEVER told us we were being prosecuted


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## linal

Hi Brimo about 2 years ago the lady (Spanish) who lived next door to me in Spain received a parking ticket.

Condensing the story she went to pay said fine & after being sent to 3 different places still with no joy in paying she got quite fiery (as some Spanish can) & demanded to see a high ranking official who asked her why she wanted to pay? gobsmacked she asked him what he meant & he replied by saying no one ever pays the reason given was unless you receive a reminder in a set time (30 days I think) it becomes null & void.

He went on further to explain that the amount of tickets issued was too many for the dept. to handle hence no reminders therefore no need to pay.

The lady in person told me the story so no reason to think it untrue.
May be worth trying to find out if this reminder theory is indeed fact.

Alex.


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## teemyob

*Vamos*

I was driving a hire care back from Alicante to Javea, came across all sorts of lunatic drivers. Then just near my turnoff, I crossed a chevron.

Out pops a bloke in uniform (with a gun) and there were two types of Police around the corner in an Industrial Area they led me to (out of sight of other road users).

Anyway they demanded the Equivalent of around £80 in cash and when I told them I did not have it (I did), they asked for my address details etc and where I was staying. I gave them the Villa address and I had to go to pay it in the town a few days later. 
Someone later asked me if I saw the Police change the fine pad when I said I had no cash!. I said I did not see them do this but I guess it is a good way of making a living and maybe another reason why they are not too hot on the heels of the Spoof Police (somone to blame).

Anyway, coming back from Javea in the motorhome in January we rounded a bend as we were heading for the bielsa tunnel pyrenees. We came across 4 men, all in black just a slit for there eyes and machine guns. MrS TM nearly had a heart attack and after I had pointed out the Police road block she then said, Gee, thought they were gonna rob us again for a moment.

TM


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## skiboycey

I've had a couple of these letters after staying in a van in Spain. There was never any indication at the time that there was a problem, just the cops going around taking people's names and addresses and then going on their way. It is often becasue campsite owners or hotel owners in the local town get grumpy because they think that they are losing out on trade so they make a denunciation to the cops who are then obliged to do something about it.

You are being far too honest about the whole thing - I just threw them all in the bin and never heard anything about it again. According to my friend, a long term resident in Andalucia, this is what everybody does. This is probably why you are having trouble paying them - they never expected a reply in the first place and now don't know what to do when you send them a cheque!

File it under 'B' (for bin)

Cheers, Mark


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## javea

I have a Spanish registered car which I keep at my house in Javea.
In October last year I received a very formal looking envelope which emanated from a department which is employed by the local councils to collect taxes, fines etc.

It contained a fine in respect of parking illegally in Moraira. The registration number was not mine. Interesting, I was not in Spain at the time of the offence and it was not my car but somehow they managed to get my name and Spanish address right - don't know how they managed that.

Anyway, to cut a long story short my fiscal representative got in touch with the Guardia Civil and they took the case on and told me to forget all about it. Always wondered what was behind that little episode.


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## teemyob

*Parking*

OH and I also had a ticket on a hire car in Benidorm

Went straight in the Bin.

TM


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