# Battery Master Failing



## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

I have a battery master fitted and up until now I assumed it was doing what it was supposed to do, however, today I went to start the MH and the vehicle battery was dead, even though the leisure battery was showing fully charged.

The MH has been on EHU for the past 4/5 weeks and during that time I started the engine once ok, all that is being used is the Strikeback alarm and immobiliser, plus the clock.

I am not an expert in electrics, in fact no where near, but according to the instructions that came with the battery master, the red LED will show when the batteries are being equalised and the green LED when all is well.

After removing the vehicle battery and putting some charge into it, the engine started ok, but on checking the battery charge levels, the leisure was showing fully charged but the vehicle battery was showing very low charge, now at this point I am back on EHU and I would expect the battery master to be supplying the vehicle battery with some charge, but this does not seem to be the case and I fully expect the battery to be flat again if I dont run the engine virtually everyday, this is not what I expected from this piece of kit.

I hope I have outlined the problem sufficiently for the electronics people on here to suggest what may be the problem.

Thanks.

Keith


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Does the led show red?

Dave


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Hi Keith,

It is possible that your battery may need replacing.

Drew


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I've moved this to the "Electrical" forum where it should get more replies.

Dave


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Same thing happened to mine.
Solar Solutions who installed it investigated and found the fuse on the live wire to the starter battery had blown When it was replaced all was well.

If your unit was supplied by Solar Solutions give them a bell, they are very helpful and will replace your unit pronto if it is faulty.


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

I was under the impression that all modern vans when on hook up charged both batteries, or at least can be switched to either, am i wrong ?

Dennis


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

brillopad said:


> I was under the impression that all modern vans when on hook up charged both batteries, or at least can be switched to either, am i wrong ?
> 
> Dennis


Yep


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

brillopad said:


> I was under the impression that all modern vans when on hook up charged both batteries, or at least can be switched to either, am i wrong ?
> 
> Dennis


That's correct, but what Batterymaster does is to transfer charge from the leisure battery to the starter battery to prevent the starter battery from going flat when not on hook up.


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

Thats twice in my life, bugger


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Does the led show red?
> 
> Dave


Dave the LED is constantly on green


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Drew said:


> Hi Keith,
> 
> It is possible that your battery may need replacing.
> 
> Drew


Drew, That could be but I doubt it, the van is less than 10 months old and it was a brand new battery.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

gudlucker said:


> Dave the LED is constantly on green


Most probably it cannot supply the starter battery then, check the connection and fuse between batterymaster and starter battery. :roll:


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> Same thing happened to mine.
> Solar Solutions who installed it investigated and found the fuse on the live wire to the starter battery had blown When it was replaced all was well.
> 
> If your unit was supplied by Solar Solutions give them a bell, they are very helpful and will replace your unit pronto if it is faulty.


It was supplied and fitted by Vanbitz, intend to give them a bell tomorrow.

Keith


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"but this does not seem to be the case"

I'll try again. Was the red led showing? If not, has it ever showed?

Dave


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Spacerunner said:


> gudlucker said:
> 
> 
> > Dave the LED is constantly on green
> ...


Not being very "up" on electrics, where would I find these, the unit is fitted close to the main Sargent box under the front offside bench seat and consists of a small black box with I think 3 wires leading from it.

Keith


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

The fuse in my setup is sited right next to the starter battery close to the positive (+) terminal.

Start at the starter battery and trace the batterymaster lead back to the BM unit.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Sorry, I did't see you made consecutive posts, one at bottom of first page and a different one at the top of the second.

These battery masters are relatively simple and packaged so that it is unlikely to fail. I agree that 5 mins with a multimeter will probably show the root cause.

Dave


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> "but this does not seem to be the case"
> 
> I'll try again. Was the red led showing? If not, has it ever showed?
> 
> Dave


Dave, To be honest, with the unit being "hidden" away under the seating, I cannot say whether it has ever shown red, but with my limited knowledge of the system, I would have thought it would be currently showing red because the leisure battery is showing 13.5 and the vehicle battery is showing about 3, the van is also on ECH.

Keith


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

gudlucker said:


> and the vehicle battery is showing about 3,


Keith, is that a typing error, or is that truly the reading for the starter battery? 8O

Regards,

Jock.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

gudlucker said:


> ........ because the leisure battery is showing 13.5 and the vehicle battery is showing about 3, the van is also on ECH.
> 
> Keith


If that is the true reading for the vehicle battery then that battery may well be dead since flattening to that extent does damage the plates as far as I know (mentioned many times on threads on here).

Does your van have a switching system so that you can positively divert the power to the vehicle battery? Some vans have an optional switch to allow the manual change.

BUT VanBitz will undoubtedly be able to advise.

Where are you situated?

I just happen to know that VanBitz are at the Exeter Caravan and Motorhome show today (saw them there yesterday) so if you are local it might be possible to nip down and ask them for advice......

Dave


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

gudlucker said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> > Same thing happened to mine.
> ...


I will be interested how you get on.

I also have a battery master and usually never have to worry about the engine battery.

However on Wed I noticed my engine battery was showing 11.7v on the control panel, possibly a bit higher at the actual battery if you allow for voltage drop.

My battery master had a green light so not transferring any power to the engine battery.

Mine hadn't been on hook up as I have a solar panel.

Luckily the motorhome did start and I drove it for an hour and then put it on hook up when I returned home as is was 12.5v on return but soon dropped to 12.2v to 12.3v.

Mind you the weather has been prety dull lately.

ps: just sent a text message to my van alarm and it came back showing battery 12.5v which is pretty good, probable 12.3 or4 at the control panel.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"ps: just sent a text message to my van alarm and it came back showing battery 12.5v which is pretty good, probable 12.3 or4 at the control panel."

And they call ME a gadget freak ..... 

Dave


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

JockandRita said:


> gudlucker said:
> 
> 
> > and the vehicle battery is showing about 3,
> ...


Quite right Jock, not sure why I put 3 but I have just checked the control panel again and Leisure is : 13.5 Vehicle is : 12.

Keith


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Penquin, See post to Jock re vehicle battery reading (too much wine last night methinks)  

Right down in west Cornwall so not able to pop into Exeter.

Thanks anyway for info.

Keith


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Hi Keith,

Any luck yet. I am interested in your findings.

Drew


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> "ps: just sent a text message to my van alarm and it came back showing battery 12.5v which is pretty good, probable 12.3 or4 at the control panel."
> 
> And they call ME a gadget freak .....
> 
> Dave


I have a Strikeback alarm with the pager


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
I have the same strikeback system and I use mine to check the battery level about once a month  if it's low I turn on the hook up,
much easier than getting a meter out, yes I have a battery master as well
Regards,
Chris V


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Well, the update is that I spoke at great length to Andy at Vanbitz, who felt fairly sure it was the battery at fault, although trying to ascertain this for sure 180 miles away is, and I fully agree, rather difficult.

For the time being, Andy advised me to switch the battery charger over onto vehicle charge to ensure vehicle will start, and then anytime I am passing Taunton way to pop in and they will do a free professional battery and charger test to resolve the issue, which I found rather comforting.

What did surprise me was the apparent frequency of battery failure even on relatively new batteries, not just confined to motorhomes but all vehicles, so looks like I will have to get the battery tested and then hopefully get a replacement under warranty, (thats when the fun will start).

So, although not fully sorted yet, I must thank Andy for his professional help and advice which he gave calmly to a rather irritated customer (ME) and stressed that all Vanbitz wanted was a satisfied customer and they would strive to ensure that's what I was at the end of the day. Can't ask for more than that can you.

Keith


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## ianhibs (May 1, 2005)

I had this problem myself last year. I think you will find one of the fuses from the alternator has failed. In my case it was the 100 amp one. But yes the battery had failed as well.

Ian


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## peej (Feb 21, 2009)

I have also had this problem. Solar panel and batterymaster installed by Solar Solutions last year and vehicle battery was dead on 2 occasions over the winter despite being on hookup.

I investigated and the LED is permanently green and the cause was a blown 5 amp fuse between the vehicle battery and batterymaster.

I phoned Solar Solutions who told me to change it for a 10 amp fuse.

Now - call me old fashioned but I like to know why fuses blow. I have checked the current flowing from the BM to the vehicle battery and its 2.6 amps. I suppose that a surge could explain it but its a bit worrying.

Also - if as Solar Solutions suggest - this happens to a number of people, why dont they fit a larger fuse?

In the meantime I have been smugly assuming my laid up vehicle battery was safely topped up during the winter where it has actually been flat with the risks of damage that brings.

Peter


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

There is a lot of mis- information in this thread.

Battery Master does not need fusing if the standard wires are not extended. It has resettable internal fuses. You can short the thing out for a week and it will turn off. re-instate the circuit correctly and it will turn back on.

The maximum designed amperage is circa 1amp

If 2.6 amps are flowing into your engine battery from your leisure battery I would be worried where they were going? Either something is on or a faulty cell would be my main concern.

Often to ease installation the Battery Master is connected at the split charge relay. The split charge relay load and supply will should be fused by the motorhome installer.

This is the fuse that often blows.

An example why. Imagine after a few short winter runs, the engine has only just managed to start. The Engine battery discharged and the Leisure battery fully charged! 

The leisure battery will try very hard to equalise with the engine battery. This often results in a blown fuse. A fuse fitted by the manufacturer for this very purpose.

Battery Master will trickle charge from leisure to engine whilst everything is working OK at 1.1amp charge it is a "top up" If your engine battery is calling for more than 1.1 amp then over a greater or lesser period of time the engine battery will be flat.

A little like filling a colander under a tap. The second the tap is turned off the colander will be empty. 

There is a very high quiescent drain on modern motorhomes, as they are designed as delivery vans to be used every day. The converters do not change the alternators, simply add more batteries, fridge/freezer plus other bits. 

When the engine is running the batteries are in parallel connected by a cheap old relay.

Add to this worse! Look at the cable that the vehicle manufacturer used to connect the alternator to the engine battery? About 170amp on average for about one metre. Now look at the tiny cable that connects your leisure battery. Notice a huge difference?

No calculate the distance! one, two, five? 

Most vans have an inadequate approach to proper charging of the leisure batteries.


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## peej (Feb 21, 2009)

The fuse is at the engine battery end of things and is presumably to protect the wire from the Batterymaster (installed next to the leisure battery) and the engine battery. 

The reason why the engine battery was drawing 2.6 amps is because I had deliberately left lights, fan etc on to put a bit of drain on the engine battery while trying to find whether the batterymaster was working.

I will check it again when the battery is fully charged.

Peter


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

brillopad said:


> I was under the impression that all modern vans when on hook up charged both batteries, or at least can be switched to either, am i wrong ?
> 
> Dennis


I don't think my van does, and it's 2.5 years old.

I have a double leisure battery which is charged by electricity or by generator.

I have an engine battery which ran out in December, so I had a new one, and the old one now sits in the house with a charger from Halfords, so if the new one runs out, I can just swap it.

It's not likely to run out when I'm away, since I'll have been driving when I'm away and driving charges the engine battery.


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