# L E Z



## pejoy (Sep 14, 2008)

HI All,

I have a 1997 van based on a fiat ducato 2.5td 2.800kg, I realise It will not comply when the LEZ law comes in 2012 but has anyone any idea how the LEZ charging is going to work. will it be by registrations caught on camera, or via DVLA information.My reason for asking is that my home address (van residence) is two miles inside the LEZ.But if i drive the back root via the country lanes i can join the M25 just outside the zone.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

google lez charging
Then go down to theaa site. Most informative.

Dave p


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I think you will find its the same as the Congestion Charge.

Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras at all the entry points into the LEZ just like the "C" zone

I would be VERY wary about thinking you can "beat the system" by using a back route, "they" will be very aware of all routes into the LEZ (that is of course a personal view and I could of course be wrong!)


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

They will get you as you travel on and off the M25 there will be no hiding from them.
I hoped Boris would carry on the postponement but of coarse it will be a great revenue raiser so we will have to wait and see.
Cameron was very sympathetic towards my fight for motorhomes and the resident's of London but even that might change in 2012
I still want it like Germany it is simple and easier.


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

One of my previous vehicles was a Hymer b544 on a '92 2.5td Ducato. When I checked with TFL it indicated it was LEZ 2 compliant.


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## pejoy (Sep 14, 2008)

Thank's for the replies,Really p****d off now, looks like i will probably have to give up motorhoeming,as i won't be able to afford a newer van,was looking forward to doing some travelling when i retire in a couple of years time. :evil:


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Wait try this put your reg in
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/2526.aspx

https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb/lezComplianceProvideVRM.faces?referrer=lez

Buy a petrol Motorhome as some of my London friends are or a Caravan then you can beat it. :wink:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

If the CC and C&CC were any good at looking after their membership (i.e. you and me) they would be lobbying Boris like fury to get TFL to exempt any vehicle registered as a Motorcaravan from this daft levy !! Its already done for Congestion charging if you run a black cab (Like Stephen Fry does!!) 

I have a 2003 M/H based on a merc Sprinter which has a 2.7 litre Diesel engine. I visit London occasionally and usually stay at Crystal Palace which, like Abbey Wood is about half a mile INSIDE the LEZ (co-incidence??) !!

My total mileage is (will be) therefore about 1 mile inside the LEZ. for which I will be charged several hundred pounds EACH DAY! 

I understand that the same engine is fitted in Mercs bully-boy Range Rover sized 4x4. ( G -Wagen??) Now THAT vehicle will be able to drive 24/7 within the LEZ without any penalty at all. Its a bit difficult to see the sense in it all !!!

I am aware that the LEZ is being postponed for smaller diesel engined vehicle so MAYBE someone who is not a hater of everything diesel or petrol powered (like Red Ken is/was) is looking at the whole situation sensibly ?


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## pejoy (Sep 14, 2008)

If you ask me it's all pretty pathetic and can only be about revenue earning.
I'm all for saving the planet but all they had to do was leave existing vehicles alone (They already have emission control via mot)these vehicles would die out naturally in a few years time and vans like mobile homes and horse boxes don't do that higher mileage anyway.All new vehicles should have to comply with the new legislation putting the onus down to the manufacurers.


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

I had a Hymer 644 1990 which ran like a dream but I found out about the LEZ about 2 years ago and even then there was an attempt to make MH exempt but they were having none of it. As many have said here, we do so little miles and even if, like me, you live in central london, all you ever do is leave and depart, which makes one's miles inside the LEZ trivial. But since when did common sense have anything to do with govt.?

As some have pointed out, your option is petrol or Euro 4 compliant - do not not now buy a Euro3 compliant van as this will give you only til 2012. Euro2 becomes illegal in October 2010. 

I do not know what DVLC have done about informing owners. Do they write to you? If so when? I can see some people only finding out at the last moment or perhaps when they get the first fine. Which in theory could be horrendous if you didn't know about it and came into London then stayed for a long time before going out again.

Btw if you are outside London, I expect you could pick up a bargain when some have to distress sell urgently later this year. 

Anyway I hummed and hahhed and decided that money in the bank earned nothing so went for a 2007 Euramobile Integra; very happy with it too.


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

PS I agree about the CC and C&CC not covering this subject. I don't think I have seen a single piece on the issue.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> PS I agree about the CC and C&CC not covering this subject. I don't think I have seen a single piece on the issue.


That's because Caravans aren't affected by the charge! :twisted:

David


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

True but they do purport to represent motorhomes as well.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> True but they do purport to represent motorhomes as well.


Yes, but they call them motor caravans when the generic is motorhome. This is to belittle the advantages of the motorhome over the caravan - the green eyed monster!

Anyway, I've strayed off topic, sorry.

There is no answer to the LEZ issue, the euro standards affected will increase as time goes by. Mine is Euro 3 (or 2, don't know) - my answer is I won't visit London with it.

If you live in London and have a non-compliant motorhome, write to your council/assembly member. It won't do any good as you are a minority, and the majority voted the other way?

Or get a storage place outside M25.

David


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## doug285 (Apr 30, 2008)

I am not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere as I know the subject of LEZ has come up before.

Non-compliant vehicles can be fitted with a "cat" to make them eligible for use within the zone. The work will be carried out by a yet to be named group of suppliers at a cost of approx £1,500. DVLC will be notified that the adaption has been made so that it will be ignored by the monitoring equipment.

Expensive I know, but to some it could mean that the vehicle they now own and love could still be driven without restriction.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Why not store none compliant vehicles outside the LEZ? 

peedee


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Or buy a petrol Motorhome or Caravan --thats how my friends who live in London are getting around it.


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

Hmm, I suspect the suggestions to store a MH outside the M25 come from those outside the M25! The cost of storage and logistics (cleaning, loading, unloading, etc) would make it unacceptable to everyone I imagine. 
Petrol motorhomes have a problem with inclines over 1% ;-) That's why there are so few petrol engined large vehicles of any sort. They run out of torque when pulling heavy loads. 
The cat addition cannot be fitted to vehicles much older than about 8 years or so I have been told. And as the deadline is October and no fitters have been identified I'll remain skeptical on that one. 
Let's face it, we can't even get local councils to provide aires that would bring business to their towns, so what hope of getting anyone to reconsider the LEZ for us?
BTW does anyone know the answer to the question about how, if at all, and when DVLC will inform people of the LEZ?


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Mavis is right.

It seems crazy that the supposed "green" and anti-pollution aims of the LEZ don't apply at all to American RVs with huge engines that guzzle petrol at 8 mpg and produce at least twice as much CO2 as any older non-compliant diesel engined European MH. :roll: :roll: :roll: 


SD


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> Hmm, I suspect the suggestions to store a MH outside the M25 come from those outside the M25! The cost of storage and logistics (cleaning, loading, unloading, etc) would make it unacceptable to everyone I imagine.
> Petrol motorhomes have a problem with inclines over 1% ;-) That's why there are so few petrol engined large vehicles of any sort. They run out of torque when pulling heavy loads.
> The cat addition cannot be fitted to vehicles much older than about 8 years or so I have been told. And as the deadline is October and no fitters have been identified I'll remain skeptical on that one.
> Let's face it, we can't even get local councils to provide aires that would bring business to their towns, so what hope of getting anyone to reconsider the LEZ for us?
> BTW does anyone know the answer to the question about how, if at all, and when DVLC will inform people of the LEZ?


You are quite right, I don't live inside the M25, however many people store their motorhome at a location away from home.

Not really sure what the DVLA (C) have to do with it - the LEZ is run by Boris the bike, and presumably advertised in various publications/online. I would imagine it is the owners responsibility to ascertain compliance with the legislation.

There is a list of engines, their Euro classification, modifications required, resulting compliance level, and manufacturer of components. I think it's on the TfL website.

Another alternative is to buy a Euro IV or V compliant vehicle, or to re-engine your existing vehicle with same.

I am not unsympathetic to your plight, but hold no hope for a change in legislation.

David


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

gutlessyogi said:


> Petrol motorhomes have a problem with inclines over 1% ;-) That's why there are so few petrol engined large vehicles of any sort. They run out of torque when pulling heavy loads.
> The cat addition cannot be fitted to vehicles much older than about 8 years or so I have been told. And as the deadline is October and no fitters have been identified I'll remain skeptical on that one.
> Let's face it, we can't even get local councils to provide aires that would bring business to their towns, so what hope of getting anyone to reconsider the LEZ for us?
> BTW does anyone know the answer to the question about how, if at all, and when DVLC will inform people of the LEZ?


Funny never noticed the RV was going backwards when we went over the Pyrennes :lol:

The LEZ is to do with particle emissions which you get mainly from diesels, (soot). Cat's don't get rid of soot, you need a particle filter.

The snag is they need to be designed for the engine, they also need some way to regenerate. You could just get one of a similar engine from the scrappy, but you then have the problem of regeneration, which I think is normally handled by the ECU pumping extra fuel into the filter, and burning the soot off. Older diesels won't have an ECU, and if they do it won't have that function programmed in.

From what been posted on here and other sites in the past, I don't think there's any cost effective option.

Olley


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

It looks as though TFL will delay the oct 2010 date to jan 2012 (which was to have been when Euro3 ended). Great news for some but bad news for me as I sold my beloved old Hymer and scraped together £35k to buy a Euramobil, which although I love it to bits, is a lot of money I spent that I could have used for other purposes. 
Interestingly on the TFL flowchart for working out compliance, motorhomes are in a category of three. The other two are ambulances and hearses. What does it mean??


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

SpeedyDux said:


> It seems crazy that ... the LEZ don't apply at all to American RVs with huge engines that guzzle petrol at 8 mpg and produce at least twice as much CO2 as any older non-compliant diesel engined European MH


But how many miles a year do you drive in your older (higher-polluting) European MH compared to how many I drive in my petrol RV? I've no objection to the question, but compare apples with apples, not bananas.

I can argue that because I get low MPG consumption, I use mine a great deal less than I would an older non-compliant European van, and therefore contribute less to the CO2 total.

I'll be responsible for my carbon footprint if you're responsible for yours. 

Dougie.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Dougie,

I wasn't having a go at your RV (or any RVs), just the illogical basis for the LEZ that means MHers living inside the M25 have an incentive to replace a relatively low carbon modern European diesel MH with a petrol engined RV to avoid this daily charge.

My carbon footprint is tiny nowadays because I mainly work from home via the internet. Business travel and commuting are a thing of the past. Also I have given up package holidays and air travel.  


SD


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

SpeedyDux said:


> I wasn't having a go at your RV (or any RVs), just the illogical basis for the LEZ


I got that. And I wasn't being defensive, just mildly argumentative. 

Dougie.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> Interestingly on the TFL flowchart for working out compliance, motorhomes are in a category of three. The other two are ambulances and hearses. What does it mean??


It's a natural progression :lol:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> Interestingly on the TFL flowchart for working out compliance, motorhomes are in a category of three


Can you post the link to that please? Ta.

Dougie.


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## Hymie (May 9, 2005)

*LEZ*

There is an answer - but im sue it womt be cheap.

Sawiko www.sawiko.de offer Particle Filters for older motorhomes.

There list shows Fiats back to 230 model type of 2000.

cheers


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/2526.aspx


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

asprn said:


> Can you post the link to that please? Ta.
> 
> Dougie.


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/lez/LEZ/LEZ_Flowchart_Web_Version_PDF1.pdf

Olley


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

olley said:


> asprn said:
> 
> 
> > Can you post the link to that please? Ta.
> ...


From Olleys link, best course of action is to register it as a 'showmans vehicle' and get 100% discount.

David :lol:


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

yes, obviously the Showman's Guild did better lobbying than the CC or CCC :roll: :evil:


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

bognormike said:


> yes, obviously the Showman's Guild did better lobbying than the CC or CCC :roll: :evil:


Now that says quite a lot about the CC and C&CC......

There are '4000 active members' of the Showmens Guild.

There are slightly more members of the clubs for caravanning/motorhoming.

Oh dear 


David


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## gutlessyogi (May 1, 2005)

What qualifies a vehicle as a showman's vehicle?


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> What qualifies a vehicle as a showman's vehicle?


I was only kidding......

look at TfL website for LEZ and see if you can download the exemption application form. i suspect you may have to join the showmens guild.

David

edit.

Discounts

The 100% discount for Showman's vehicles applies only to those vehicles which are registered to a person following the business of a travelling showman AND are modified or specially constructed.

Modifications or special constructions must be used during the performance OR for the purpose of providing the performance OR carrying performance equipment; OR displaying animals to the public OR be below the chassis level such that it is not possible to fit emission abatement equipment.

You will need to register with TfL to qualify for this discount.

from TfL


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

gutlessyogi said:


> What qualifies a vehicle as a showman's vehicle?


How about asking that if you really mean to convert one? That's what I call a "50p what-if" question.  Let's not go there.

Dougie.


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