# Hook up lead



## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

After going on a site last weekend our lead was too short so we now need to buy another, to prevent the same problem.

After looking in the Screwfix catalogue there seem to be a choice of two:-
- 14M 240V Lead 3C 2.5mm Blue
- 240V LEAD 14M 1.5MM

Otherwise both seem to give the same spec


> IP44 rated 240V Industrial Range manufactured from high impact, self-extinguishing durable plastic. Supplied with 16A plug and connector.
> IP44 Splashproof
> Tough, Compact & Lightweight Construction
> EN 60309


Obviously we would like to buy the thinner cable as it will be lighter and less bulky, will this have any limitations.

Sorry but don't know how to put a link to a web page


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

This one Jeanann?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101352&ts=97603&id=74270

Should be OK, make sure you fully unwind it first


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## 96105 (Aug 23, 2005)

*hook up*

Hi go for a 25 m hook up lead keep it stowed in gas conpartment so
remember to turn gas on when hook up." available from jr leisure or any
motorhome shops. :wink: 
http://camperlands.co.uk/store/erol.html#838x

cheers dogfish


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## RobinHood (May 19, 2005)

I can get differing answers from the web, but 1.5mm wire seems to be the minimum spec for around 15/16 amps, so it looks like it should be safe for anything you're likely to connect to. The advice from MandyandDave to fully unwind (the cable :? that is) is probably wise, however.

The heavier gauge 2.5mm is less likely to get hot in use, especially if used partially coiled (which is not recommended, but we all do it don't we)..........................OK, that would be only me then  .

Are you intending using the two in tandem (new with existing)? If so (and your current cable is short), I would also agree with dogfish - go for a single long cable for normal use, and keep the existing in reserve as an extension.

I carry two 25m cables but have rarely used them in tandem (but have had to do so - last time just three weeks ago). I'm not entirely happy at leaving a 'join' on the floor if it is raining, and on two occasions have had to stop someone driving over the join (even when well out of normal routes) which is clearly not the same as driving over the cable, and would potentailly have destroyed both cables.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Argos do a 10 m main connection lead at £14.99 and a 25m at £24.99. Both are heavy gauge, orange.

We bought the 10 m one to carry in adition to our 25m one and have had to use them both but never needed longer - just ! It is useful not to have to unroll and re-pack the big one when you are close to the electricity source.

G


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## 96186 (Sep 1, 2005)

The blue one without a doubt.

Far better in cold weather, Arctic blue doesnt become stiff in cold weather.

The cable rating is greater, it will carry 16 Amps with less voltage drop and less heat.

Unless you truly understand the Physics and maths involved, NEVER use any current carrying cable in a coiled state, fire could result, but also it can melt the insulation which could also prove very shocking.

The orange is a poor substitute, it will not last as long, does not have the same current carrying ability, UV rating is lower, stiffens in cold weather.

BTW Amparage rating's on cable, only apply over a short distance (of cable) ie 16 Amp cable is misnamed, over any distance it would be no use for 16 Amps.


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Another point to consider is the blue stuff is self extinguishing! :wink:


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for all you help and advice, its really good to know that help is out there. It's the diversity of knowledge and the eagerness to help that makes the site so friendly  . 
Have now ordered the 1.5mm x 14 metre cable from Screwfix as the price is competative £9.99 ( no postage as already placing an order) and it should meet our needs. We already have a long cable but it has suddenly become too short (first time in two and a half years) :?


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps the orange ones shrink ?

 

G


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

RVSmith said:


> Unless you truly understand the Physics and maths involved, NEVER use any current carrying cable in a coiled state, fire could result, but also it can melt the insulation which could also prove very shocking.


 8O George. I have used cables coiled on a reel coiled in a box in lengths up to 33 metres putting through 1000's of watts for many years. I never had a fuse blow, a cable overheat or any loss of power. Just my luck I suppose. Although I would of course not recommend the action. IMO. :wink:

By the way. A cheaper alternative is availeable on ebay:- >> HERE << at £7.99.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Buy the 2.5mm one here for £9.99

http://www.ups-warehouse.com/

Someone was looking for a splitter on another thread.. they also sell these


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

Try
www.towsure.co.uk

They have loads a camping stuff
We got a 25m lead from there 3 day delivery

16A cable cost about £13


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## 96186 (Sep 1, 2005)

John

Either you are very lucky and accidentally aquired the correct cable core thickness to make this safe, highley unlikely.

Your cable was put togethor by a competant third party who knew what he was doing. Mentioning lack of fuses blowing shows you have no idea about the dangers

This is the second time in recent months that you have claimed to have always used a dangerous method, but to have always got away with it. You say you dont reccomend it, bit at the same time imply its safe because you have done it for years.

I repeat for safeties sake

*Unless you truly understand the Physics and maths involved, NEVER use any current carrying cable in a coiled state, fire could result, but also it can melt the insulation which could also prove very shocking. *

If you dont care about yourself or your family by all means take the same chances that *John claims *that he does...


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

8O Get off your high horse *George*. I state what I do not recommend. That's my choice. If it works. Dont' fix it. IMVHO. :roll:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

RVSmith,

You only started posting 4 days ago, although at a fair rate since. As you admit to remembering things posted on MHF months ago, how did you stop yourself from signing up but remain such an avid Guest in all that time?

Dave


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

he was a little shy :wink: 

Olley


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## RobinHood (May 19, 2005)

johnsandywhite said:


> 8O George. I have used cables coiled on a reel coiled in a box in lengths up to 33 metres putting through 1000's of watts for many years. I never had a fuse blow, a cable overheat or any loss of power. Just my luck I suppose. Although I would of course not recommend the action. IMO. :wink:


*Not *just me then (surprise, surprise). :wink:

I have likewise never experienced any ill-effects from not fully uncoiling my hook-up lead (and yes, I do understand the effects of inductance and resistance). I make my own decisions - my advice previously was that it would be best to fully uncoil - but, it is worthwhile looking at the real world. From observation it is common practice for continental campers to use relatively low-gauge (black) cable, to wind it tightly on a drum, and only to unwind the requisite amount to hook-up. I have never, in best part of 20 years, seen an incident associated with this. My own cables are heavier gauge, loosely wound, and have been checked in use for any ill-effects.

I suppose I could now start a similar controversial debate by saying I also don't take any (specific) precautions against reversed polarity. (and yes, I do understand this as well).

Having possibly lit the blue touch-paper, I will retire for now  .

Methinks someone here may be posting under a new 'nom de clavier'


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Ok guys,

whether the information given in this thread is wrong or not isn't the issue for me here, its the tone of a few of the last replies that gives concern, even if you don't agree with whats been said, then at the very least reply in a respectful manner to the other person, and once again, if you can't manage that, take it to PM.

As regards whether someone is posting under another name while banned or not, it has been noted, please leave that to admin to take the appropriate action if deemed neccesary.

pete.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

Hi *peejay*. It's just that as *RobinHood* mentioned. We understand the possible danger's but in the real world not many do it the correct way. What we don't like is Pontifications by someone who purports to know everything about everything. :evil:


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

I like this forum because when you get banned all you have to do is come back with a different name, so george now you have changed your name why don’t you be less arrogant


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## RobinHood (May 19, 2005)

johnsandywhite said:


> Hi *peejay*. It's just that as *RobinHood* mentioned. We understand the possible danger's but in the real world not many do it the correct way. What we don't like is Pontifications by someone who purports to know everything about everything. :evil:


What makes you think you can speak for me? If you're not careful I'll set the Armthorpe gang on you! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Other than that (given the implied yellow card), I have nothing more to say on the subject.

(Peejay, if I've offended, I apologise. Whilst I might challenge in my posts, I try my best not to be factual but not personal - unless it is clearly meant to be humorous).


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> RVSmith,
> 
> You only started posting 4 days ago, although at a fair rate since. As you admit to remembering things posted on MHF months ago, how did you stop yourself from signing up but remain such an avid Guest in all that time?
> 
> Dave


I am guilty of that one too.. I lurked as a MHF "reader" for god knows how long before I decided to register


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> What we don't like is Pontifications by someone who purports to know everything about everything


Think there also a few more on here who might also be guilty of that one occasionally John :wink: , thats not what i'm on about, my point is that everyone must understand that they have a responsibility to post sensible replies and be respectful, taking swipes at each other on a public forum will not be tolerated, end of story.

At the risk of repeating, If theres anything you're unhappy about or disagree with, don't get all wound up about it in the forums, let a mod know, thats what we're here for.

pete.

ps, robinhood, you haven't offended and no need to apologise.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

RobinHood said:


> What makes you think you can speak for me? If you're not careful I'll set the Armthorpe gang on you!


 8O I was not aware I was speaking on your behalf? If I was then I apologise. :lol:


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## RobinHood (May 19, 2005)

peejay said:


> ps, robinhood, you haven't offended and no need to apologise.


I'll have to try harder then :wink:

(I'll also have to proof read my postings better so as not to let the freudian slips get through - I did of course mean to say I try my best to be factual but not personal).

The Adnams is particularly good today.


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## Road_Runner_644 (May 9, 2005)

> I try my best not to be factual but not personal - unless it is clearly meant to be humorous


Absolute cracker Robinhood 

glad you spotted it.

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Thats better, a bit of humour!

hopefully we're all back on the right track again :wink: 


pete.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

I don't wish to get involved in the differences between various users of the forum so please let us keep to the questions involved.

What upsets me is that certain posts suggest dangerous usage of equipment which may lead to new motohomers adopting these very bad habits.

Why do some members of this, and other, forums glorify that fact that they live so dangerously. its a mentality I cannot understand.

Unknowingly doing something dangerous is understandable but continuing to behave the same way once the danger is known and bragging about it is beyond belief.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

This is a very old thread that has been given new life but after reading it and other threads covering the subject I haven't found a post explaining why we shouldn't use the lead still coiled or partially coiled. So as I have some knowledge in this field I'll try and explain it without being patronising or too technical. 

Its mainly to do with the insulation. Differently insulated cables with the same size copper core can carry different currents without overheating. But and this is a big BUT it all depends upon the environment, if the surroundings are already hot, or if there is extra insulation around them, then the heat in the wires cannot escape and the temperature rises. To get around this there are tables so that you know how to derate the current carrying capacity for say installing cables under loft insulation or bunching cables together. 

Now consider the coiled extension cable the wires buried in the middle are unable to lose their heat so easily, these warm up the local environment (the other turns of the cable) ,so creating a vicious spiral (no pun intended) of increasing heat.

On a pull out extension cable these days the manufacturer states the current the cable can take fully extended and also that when fully coiled. The latter may be about half the former - so you see its not just a small effect.

Of course if you are not drawing anything like the rated current or if you are in icy conditions you won't ever see this effect.

Now can I be a little controversial? (I don't believe any of the above was). I always think we tend to be a bit blinkered on H&S issues, considering electrical risks and hazards separately from other risks and hazards. Quite often if I am using an extension lead I won't pull it all out because to do so might create a 'trip hazard' which according to statistics is far more likely to cause injury, but I do ALWAYS consider what load I am going to use and for how long. So as a general rule I would always say 'extend it fully' but I would quite understand someone with good electrical training not doing so especially when to do so would create a trip or other hazard. 


Regards Frank

(former electrical engineer with Trinity House Lighthouse Authority, where a simple trip might involve more than a grazed knee!)


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I was surprised on a frosty morning earlier this year to see that the grass around our neighbours thin "continental type" hook up lead was completely free of ice. It was clear where the -uncoiled- cable went from van to post. Our thicker orange cable did not show this effect.

Some heat was clearly being given off by the cable and that on a bitterly cold morning. I can imagine that on a Spanish campsite in an August noon with the cable coiled that heat loss could easily cause a fire or melt the cable.

G


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Frank 

nice post and very well explained, I nearly had photograpic evidence, someone that used to work for me had used an heavy load on a virtually fully coiled extension lead, the resulting fire melted the plastic cable drum.

BTW even while on fire the load kept working, only stoped when someone else spotted the fire.

I saw the result, but I didnt get to the unit with my camera for a few days by which time it had been skipped, its the second time I have seen it though a fair few years back saw it in progress at a place I worked in but the one I saw only smouldered and was switched of before the melting plastic ignited.


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

I'm always (in my short membership) glad to see posts from Sallytrafic and George Telford. In that short experience (mine, not theirs) I know that any post they make will be full of good technical sense and at the end of it I will know a lot more about the subject than when I first started reading it. Some 25 years ago, when still a caravanner (can't stand the word "tugger", somehow sounds demeaning, and we all change over the years) my then RQMS told me off, in the nicest possible way (of course) as I was his boss, for running my electrics off a coiled lead and why it was wrong. I've never forgotten the lesson in electrics nor in the way to correct one's superior! I always fully uncoil the lead even if the supply post is only 5m away - it's very easy just to lay the unwound cable beside the van (caravan or MH).

By the way, Frank, my home town is Harwich, in my youth a TH lightship resupply base. Did you ever visit or were you always lighthouses?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

PhredC,

Harwich - spent the first 18 years of my mis-spent youth there! As did Alison.

Indeed, I meant to come back to a post a little while ago about Ganges and button-boys. From our garden I could see the training rig and I was in total awe of those who climbed it.

Dave


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## LeeUK (Sep 16, 2005)

Good and true post by PhredC

A thread re-opened by a complete useless post. Know all

DOH.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Phred

Thanks for the kind words RVSmith and I apreciate it.


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## thehutchies (Jun 25, 2005)

I melted a cable reel quite recently :lol: 

It was late and I was too lazy to unroll it. The next morning, all the insulation had melted together, the bare wires were exposed and the plastic reel had collapsed. Very fortunate not to have caught fire!

However, it was powering the washing machine, freezer and tumble drier at the same time, not the sort of current any motorhomes would be drawing, I hope.

And I used to be an electrical engineer, too!


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

What a total change from the original question which I think was about too short hook up leads - nothing to do with uncoiling, blue or orange insulation, Trinity House lighthouses or lightships, sorry Frank Lightvessels, or Harwich. That surely is one of the joys of this website that one thing just leads on to another.

We went across to one of the Ganges open days one year. What I saw was enough to put me off the Navy for life and the sight of the Button Boy on the top of the mast frightened me to death even then. If there'd been a sofa to hide behind I would probably have been behind it. What with HSE and risk assessments etc today they probably wouldn't be allowed to do it although, so far as I know, Ganges never had any serious accidents. Mind you it was a very impressive display and we've lost something by the closure of such training establishments - quite sad really.


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