# More vehicle battery woes



## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I am getting very fed up with this happening!!

I have had the motorhome for 4 + years. It is on hookup at home and has a Sargent PSU with a smart charge function. So all should be well....
About 6 or 8 times the vehicle battery has been flat. Latest time today. I checked the unit was on and charging....the lightening symbol was on the leisure battery. The readings were 12.3 for the leisure battery and 2.4 for the vehicle battery. Normally the leisure battery is higher when on hookup and the vehicle around 12.?

I rang Sargent and they were at a loss to think what could be wrong. The only thing I have noticed is that it seems to happen after a power cut....of around 2 or 3 hours not days!

There is no alarm to drain the power and I turn the radio off (not on standby)....oh just thought, the sat nav or iphone charger lead is usually plugged in, but not attached to anything so presumably not drawing power? Just a thought!

The smart charge function is on (as is the PSU as the green charging light is on). The elecrticity is on (the microwave light is on)

The idea of getting a new unit (out of warranty!) is not appealing especially as it might not help. I am at a complete loss to understand why this is happening.

Any suggestions or ideas gratefully received. I could add a battery charger I suppose, but would that mean disconnecting the PSU?

Thanks for help:frown2:


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

4maddogs said:


> I am getting very fed up with this happening!!
> 
> I have had the motorhome for 4 + years. It is on hookup at home and has a Sargent PSU with a smart charge function. So all should be well....
> About 6 or 8 times the vehicle battery has been flat. Latest time today. I checked the unit was on and charging....the lightening symbol was on the leisure battery. The readings were 12.3 for the leisure battery and 2.4 for the vehicle battery. Normally the leisure battery is higher when on hookup and the vehicle around 12.?
> ...


I think the only way to resolve a problem like this is to test each component independently, one at a time.

Failing that you are going to have to get an independent "expert" to go through it but he'll need to see what he is dealing with.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am trying to think of your cheapest option.
A new battery would be around £70
An expert at around £40 an hour + a new battery = £110
Replace the charging battery system with a 'Battery Master' about £70 and new battery = £140

Bill Creer 'testing each component' will still need a new battery but allow you to check the charge coming from the Sargent and have the van working.
A mini battery charger would be useful to have until the fault is discovered.
It is still faintly possible that the fault is with the battery but my uneducated guess would be an intermittent fault coming from the Sargent.... dry joint or poor contact as Sargent cannot determine an internal failure.

Alan


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi alan
not sure if you have the same unit as mine

does the charger reset if you tell it to charge a individual battery ?

i can hear a relay click in the control panel if i do that on mine

mine does change over batterys automatically

barry


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Do you have a multimeter?? If so what voltage is showing across the starter battery when the Sargent Unit says its charging the starter battery ??? If its not the same then theres your answer. If it IS the same it would point to a knackered starter battery.

Another thing is are you SURE the starter battery is actually flat??? do the side lights etc work when you turn them on?? I am wondering whether the earth strap from the body to the engine is failing (not uncommon) You could eliminate that issue by using a jump lead between the engine block and the vehicle chassis. If it then starts that shows your earth strap is duff !!

A few things to be getting on with !!!

Have you tried swopping the starter and leisure batteries around and seeing if the fault still exists??


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I will try the earth strap trick. Nothing comes on. My usual warning is that the central locking will not work when I try to get in.
I don't have a multimeter so I will get one. 
I think it is either a knackered battery (amazed it works at all with getting so low so often) that holds it charge for so long then just dies or hibernates for a while until it is rudely awoken by an AA patrol jump lead! 
If not it must be that the Sargent unit is not kicking in properly.

A new battery may be the answer, but I think i might take it to an electrical bod to test the wiring between the 2 leisure batteries in case that is flawed....would that affect it?


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

Your battery may well be on its way out but the fact that you are only seeing 12.3v on the leisure battery with the EHU connected suggests that there is something more than just a dodgy battery going on.

As others have suggested I would get a cheap multimeter and check that the battery terminal voltages match those being displayed by the control panel.

If they are the same then I would reset everything to (hopefully) get the Smart charge operating correctly and then simulate a power cut to see if the charging restores itself once the power comes back on.

It's going to have to be a process of elimination but I would make sure you are 100% certain about a component (battery/charger) before shelling out for a new one.


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## InfaRed (Nov 9, 2010)

Given the age of your battery and the fact that it has been discharged a number of times I would suspect it is knackered. Go and have it tested if you can get enough charge in it to start your MH.
A good battery can last for over *five years* with proper care. However, battery failure can occur in as little as *three years*, depending on the usage, maintenance and seasonal temperatures.
Ian


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Fortunately I have a charger/starter so I plugged that in this morning on boost and it brought the battery up to 12.1 so it is now on charge using the Sargent unit to test it. I heard it click in to vehicle battery. Off to buy a multimeter today. The leisure battery is showing 13.? so perhaps that was just a glitch. In fact I wonder whether the charger was trying to charge the vehicle battery and not the leisure battery as it was low and hence the leisure battery lost some charge?

I still blame the vehicle battery now. The first time it went flat was about 3 years ago and it was not set to smart charging after it had some work on the van so it may have caused intermittent damage, I suppose. Given it is 4+ years old I may try a new vehicle battery anyway....any recommendations?
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Julie


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Dave Newell and Clive Gottobed recommend the heaviest battery by weight. Exide, Banner and Varta have all got good reputations but in the end, any battery can fail.

Alan


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## jonasw19 (Jun 11, 2010)

We had a ?similar problem on our MH
Symptoms on Sargent control Panel were critically Low battery alam for Hab and vehicle batteries, though vehicle started fine.

Multimeter confirmed that all batteries were fine and additionally had the vehicle battery tested under load (free, in situ and quick - done by the garage that services my car but most battery sellers will do it)

Eventually after much toing and froing and calls to Sargent who were helpful but baffled we sent both the control panel and the main box back to Sargent for testing / repair.
Turn round time was about a week (quicker than advertised) main box was fine but control panel U/S. new one supplied. All this on an EC325 analogue controller.
Refitted and it cured all the minor additional woes and now works fine.
Ask Sargent about this option.

jon


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

*Update*

It is very low again. Not completely depleted, but will not start easily. It has not been run for 12 days, when it had a 5 hour trip.

I spoke to Sargent who remain baffled. I tried to buy a multimeter the last time I posted but could not at the time. I have not been anywhere where I could get one as the Halfords nearest to me does not stock them.

I think the vehicle battery is not charging or keeping it's charge properlywhen on hook up. When the engine runs it does charge. When I switch manually on the hook up mains charger it charges, but when it switches over to leisure it will not switch back.

This must be a mains psu (Sargent unit) issue unless the battery is shot.

It is the time it takes to sort this out that is the problem as I work full time in a job that means a lot of travel and staying away, so time is a big issue.

My guess is that there are 2 options. One to get the unit back to Sargent, get it tested and fixed/ replaced....sounds expensive. Or second, to add a charger. Opinions and advice would be helpful, please. 
One question would be is it possible or. Wise to add a batteey charger tha ia automatic....ie just works when it is plugged in? The van remains on hookup when at home.
Julie


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

I think your van is an X250. If so you could buy a small ctek xs 3600 charger for £50, plug it in internally and leave it connected to the vehicle battery. It comes with a small lead with a socket which can be permanently attached to the vehicle battery so you just have to plug the charger lead into the socket, (meaning you don't need to open the battery lid in the passenger footwell each time).

Not the permanent solution but an easy way to rectify your problem without wasting too much time on it. It's a nice little charger, I thought it was cheaper but they seem to have updated them since I bought mine.

Kev


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Maplins for a multimeter? Or Tool Station, B&Q, Screwfix etc?


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

4maddogs said:


> I tried to buy a multimeter the last time I posted but could not at the time. I have not been anywhere where I could get one as the Halfords nearest to me does not stock them.


A choice of 10,140 multimeters here!:smile2::

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=multimeter


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Rayc or Gaspode usually have had answers to this type of problem in the past but perhaps they are on their travels.

Alan


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

4maddogs said:


> My guess is that there are 2 options. One to get the unit back to Sargent, get it tested and fixed/ replaced....sounds expensive. Or second, to add a charger. Opinions and advice would be helpful, please.
> One question would be is it possible or. Wise to add a batteey charger tha ia automatic....ie just works when it is plugged in? The van remains on hookup when at home.
> Julie


Can you get over to us at the factory? NN10 0JT.

Happy to have a look at it for you at no charge.

Peter


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Yes, Deefordog,but all about an hour away from me so it has to be when I am not working! Amazon is a good idea!


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Peter, that is a really generous offer. I will message you. What a great forum this is. Helpful replies . Humbled!


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Peter (Listerdiesel) kindly checked it out for me back in March and could find no problem with the battery at that point. It was fully charged then after a 3 hour drive. I also visted Roadpro and bought a Ctek and reconditioned the battery. 
Flat again today. I will charge it using the Ctek as it is quicker from very flat.

I spoke with Sargent a while back. They reckon it is unlikely to be the charger (not convinced on this) but I have made the decision today to cover all bases. I will buy a new battery as it must be shot now even if it takes a charge it must have dead cells I am sure. I will also send the psu back to Sargent for test and repair. Trouble is I have no idea how to disconnect it.......only one way to find out!

Just spent almost £10k on a new house roof so a couple of hundred will feel cheap.:frown2:


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Hmmm... Strange. The van now starts. It was showing 3.7 and nothing came on and the engine would not turn over. An hour later with just the internal charger on ( as it always is) the van starts and is showing 12.7.

Confused.com

Shall I buy a new battery anyway ( it is 5 years old) or should I spend a small fortune on an electrical expert who may or may not find a fault?


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

*More woes*

Well, I thought I had cracked. I bought a new starter battery and it has been fine for several months.
Just had to briing something in and found the battery dead as a dodo. So it must be the charger unit. 
2010 Swift with smart charger....Sargent unit EC 460. On hookup all the time at home. I suspect that it is not switching back to vehicle battery properly. Or when it does it cannot charge as the battery level is too low.

Sargent suggested I send it to them, but I have no idea how to disconnect it or how easy/difficult it is to disconnect and then reconnect.

It will probably be charged tomorrow as I manually switched it to vehicle battery and heard it click in. It usually works OK then for a while. It seems to be an intermittent fault.

Would I be best taking it to the dealer to send back (it is out of warranty) or attempting it myself?

Thanks....so frustrating
Julie


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I fitted a VanBitz BatteryMaster to our Kontiki several years ago - it took me about 15 minutes, has three wires and is dead simple to install - probably the best £70.00 (approx) we have spent on accessories.

It feeds charge to the LB until it is fully charged, then diverts the charge to the VB ensuring that it also is fully charged when on EHU, no switching required and there is a little light to show you it is working. It can NEVER drain the VB to allow power to be used for the LB so is a win-win scenario IMO.

Outdoor Bits had them for sale but I cannot find them now, so I would go straight to Eddie at VanBitz to enquire - he is excellent;

http://www.vanbitz.com/product/battery-master/

£69.95 and peace of mind follows immediately afterwards.....

Dave


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

I am glad you posted that! I bought a Ctek charger to condition the old battery some while ago and I had forgotten.
Trouble is I have 2 leisure batteries and that puts it over the limit for the charger. I would need to disconnect them to use the Ctek, but at least I can charge the vehicle battery properly tomorrow>

I would still prefer to get the Sargent unit working properly as that is the way I can charge all batteries together>

Oh, a thought!!! Would the addition of the 2nd leisure battery have interfered with the charger. Perhaps I installed it badly? Perhaps that is where I should start?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If it requires switching from LB to VB on the panel then to me that is one click too many..... hence my happiness with the BatteryMaster - no clicks are needed although the panel still has that option of I wish....

It's just a case of cutting out the middleman and letting the gizmo do the work.....

My brain would never remember to switch from one to another every few days over winter.....

But I don't have to - just jump in and away we go as both are kept full....

Panels MAY have settings for batteries but I think that is more for gel v wet etc rather than 90 or 180 ah......

I am sure an expert will be along soon to advise.....

Dave


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

The point is that the Sargent unit should switch automatically and I had to do it manually today. Hence thinkng it is not working properly.

The Ctek unit cannot charge all 3 batteries so I cannot use it to keep leisure and vehicle topped up so it would mean disconnecting one leisure battery.....I do wonder if I have connected the 2nd one badly. I will get it checked out, but the nearest place is quite a way away.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Confused.com here.....

why cannot the CTek charge ALL the batteries at the same time? Surely it will just keep topping them all up and should not be able to work out whether there is three or two?

The instruction booklet does not seem to suggest it cannot cope with, effectively, a bigger battery although presumably it will register to the lowest one....

http://www.ctek.com/Archive/ProductManualPdf/MXS 5.0_EN.pdf

Maybe you know something I don't - which is quite likely.....

My support for the BM unit is based on the need on my unit to switch from LB to VB manually - it does not do it automatically, are you totally sure your's should? Mine is a Sargent but an ECU200/PSU2007.......

My Sargent instructions for the system talk about the ability to switch from the default LB to the VB but do not mention that the charge is directed automatically to one or the other

http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/PSU_2007_User_Instructions.pdf

Have Sargent told you that it should switch from one to the other? My worry with such a system would be if there is the potential for the unit to drain the VB if the LB is lower - something the BatteryMaster will NOT allow,,,,,,

Dave


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

The Sargent unit is a smart charger so it should charge the leisure batteries then switch automatically to the vehicle battery and back again. Yes Sargent confirmed this when I spoke to them. They said they had never had this problem before. I wonder about the 2 leisure batteries and I am going to get the connections checked.....sometimes because I know the theory I think (wrongly) I can actually do something!!

Roadpro said that the Ctek model was not powerful enough to charge all three batteries at the same time.

At a loss!


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi

just a thaught
when you plug the mains in do you switch the sargent control on as well 

if not might be that

barry


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Yes, but you do not have to according to Sargent and the manual.


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

Booked it in to get it checked over and no problems showed up. It is charging as it should. it clicks over when the battery drops to the required low voltage as it should. The 2 leisure batteries are fitted OK. Nothing showing up as a problem. 

Now, I am even more at a loss about what is wrong. Very fed up with it as it means I have to check it every couple of weeks and cannot trust it.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Sounds like you have something drawing constant power. Alarm, tracker or even a reversing camera?? Even though the screen is blank the camera could well still be live. 

Andy


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## 4maddogs (May 4, 2010)

It is on charge all the time. The electrical guy checked for discharging and did not think there was a problem there. In fact nothing was found ....so that was £72 for not a lot!

He suggested I keep checking to see if it is an intermittent fault with the changeover to vehicle battery as it should click over to charge that battery once it reaches 12.4v

Otherwise I can plug in the Ctek chrger to the vehicle battery and leave the sargent unit to charge the leisure batteries.

One more problem though......the rear view camera has stopped giving a signal...will post a separate message, but it has happened before when the battery has gone flat and then just started again!


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi

I can understand your frustration and think the £72 spent wasn't a waste, i think you've confirmed that fundamentally your setup is ok but there's an intermittent issue with the change over, but i think you need to bite the bullet and make a decision; either send the unit to be checked/repaired which will likely be expensive and no guarantee they'll experience the intermittent issue, or reside yourself to the fact that it doesn't work as it should, and work around it by following Daves advice by leaving it on LB all the time and fitting a Battery Master type device. i say BM type device as personally i much prefer the CSB2 devices, they achieve the same thing for a fraction of the price, in fact i prefer the charge the CSB2 offers which is up to 4 amp as opposed to 0.5 of an amp. it's been a couple of years since i bought the last one but i've always got them for £18 of a seller on ebay, hard to find though as they are not advertised as a CSB2.

hope you get something sorted
Lee


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

lgbzone said:


> Hi
> 
> I can understand your frustration and think the £72 spent wasn't a waste, i think you've confirmed that fundamentally your setup is ok but there's an intermittent issue with the change over, but i think you need to bite the bullet and make a decision; either send the unit to be checked/repaired which will likely be expensive and no guarantee they'll experience the intermittent issue, or reside yourself to the fact that it doesn't work as it should, and work around it by following Daves advice by leaving it on LB all the time and fitting a Battery Master type device. i say BM type device as personally i much prefer the CSB2 devices, they achieve the same thing for a fraction of the price, in fact i prefer the charge the CSB2 offers which is up to 4 amp as opposed to 0.5 of an amp. it's been a couple of years since i bought the last one but i've always got them for £18 of a seller on ebay, hard to find though as they are not advertised as a CSB2.
> 
> ...


I couldn't find it either, *only found this one​*, could you link to the one you use Lee?


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi Kev, how are you?

Found this one at £21.99 free delivery
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPLIT-CHARGE-EASY-FIT-LEISURE-TO-ENGINE-BATTERY-CAMPER-MOTORHOME-BOAT-12V-SOLAR-/121767326651?hash=item1c59e5f3bb

and this one at £23.89 also free delivery
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLAR-WIND-SPLIT-CHARGE-LEISURE-ENGINE-BATTERY-CAMPER-MOTORHOME-BOAT-12V-/231560779531?hash=item35ea19170b

they have gone up a couple of quid since i last got one :-( but still not a bad price
i think i may have got from the second one but it no longer shows in my purchase history

Lee


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

lgbzone said:


> Hi Kev, how are you?
> 
> Found this one at £21.99 free delivery
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPLIT-CHARGE-EASY-FIT-LEISURE-TO-ENGINE-BATTERY-CAMPER-MOTORHOME-BOAT-12V-SOLAR-/121767326651?hash=item1c59e5f3bb
> ...


Fine thanks Lee, Odd those two are not carded like the Italian ones, perhaps copies?, but cheaper though.

I wonder if you could use one of these I had one in the self build, but it was used to power the fridge when driving and charge the LBs so just a reversal, loads more pop up on a Ebay search for Smartcom Relay


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

I think that's just the image being used, when purchased they're on cbe packaging with documentation, i don't suspect them being copies and i think they are only a couple of quid more from cak tanks but you'll likely have to pay postage.

interesting find in your link, the principle seems the same so i don't see why it couldn't be used so long as the voltages that it kicks in and cuts out at are appropriate. going from memory; i think the documentation that comes with the csb2 states that it kicks in at 13.6 and cuts out at 12.?, can't remember exactly. my only concern would be if it required 14.4 to start the charge. looks good though.

Lee


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