# Service centre, incompetent?



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

An update. I have detailed how I had some damp problems in my van and went to the Frankia Service Centre for repairs. They identified the shower as having a leak in the drainage piping.

I later discovered that these pipes were still leaking and being miles away did the work myself.

However when I was at the factory I asked before leaving what they had done. I was told they had fixed the leaks and checked the van with a damp meter and all was OK. 

Over the next while I noticed a little puddle or two in the underfloor area. I checked the shower. it was dry below. I traced the water to the kitchen area, adjacent to the shower. Determined to find the problem I stripped the base of the island storage unit out only to find that all below was soaking wet. The little platform which the boiler sits on has delaminated indicating that this has been going on for quite some time. I now need to repair or replace the boiler.

If a damp check had been done anywhere near that area the meter would have gone off the scale. They are very nice people but will tell you what they think you want to hear. If they do anything for you make sure you check it thoroughly before leaving.

I am sorry to be saying this but I think people should know. I am still in Germany and may go back to them. I will think about it, Alan.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I'd go back & show them what they clearly missed ! 



are you saying that your boiler has sprung a leak ?

is it the Truma or ALDE ?

or have you a leak from the kitchen sink?


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Alan

I'm so sorry your tale of woe continues. It's about time this was fixed now.

Gerald


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*leak*

Hello Alan,

I think you have a diesel/Alde system alan?

I have had a leak from the side window that runs through the under seat locker and then into the service locker where it sits rotting the wooden boards.

The leak we spoke about on our shower is not from the drain I have found but from the shower tray not being sealed correctly.

I would go back to Frankia Alan

Still having trouble with the windscreen. Autoglass came out for the 4th time today. I pointed out to the fitters that the screen is not fitting at the bottom and that I was unhappy. I turned around came in the house and when I went back out 5-10 mins later they had gone!.

Back on to Autoglass and our previous insurers tomorrow.
TM


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks all. My heating is diesel powered Trev. It is an Eberspacher Hydronic heating an Elegna tank which is badged with both names on it. It seems the boiler just sprung a leak at the back which cannot be seen or reached without dismantling the island cupboard in the kitchen and removing the base.

I have considered going back to Frankia but they seem inept. They should have spotted this last month when I was at the Service Centre with the same damp problem. I have taken the boiler out and bypassed it for now, can't get a new one till next week due to local holiday fortnight. I do feel Frankia should put it right but I don't trust them now. They take your van into a workshop where there is strictly no access for customers and and there is no way to know what they have done when it's in there. It's a simple job to fit a new one, should take me an hour or so and I will know it is right. I admit I am very angry with them and really do feel they owe me my money back for the bad job they did.

I will have to think about it but I sent them a very polite email pointing out that they had failed to repair the problems during the last visit, I didn't even get a reply. They are also on holiday just now, but as it happens we are travelling that way so I will see. 

Given that I don't want them touching my van again what would I ask them to do other than give me the part, which I will bet they would say the don't have, or give me my money back. Any way I don't have a Frankia warranty, Spinney cover it through an insurance warranty which although slow to pay has been OK so far.

Last time I was at Frankia they told me my leisure batteries were faulty, I said OK replace them please, they said they didn't have any, this in a motorhome factory! Alan.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Reading your post carefully I am assuming that this Frankia Service Centre is in Germany, is this correct?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes Hobbyfan, beside the factory, Alan.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

erneboy said:


> Yes Hobbyfan, beside the factory, Alan.


Thank you. Please don't think I'm being a smart Alec but it's just a nice change to find that it's not just the British who can screw things up! We get so many posts saying how wonderful the Continentals are and how rubbish Britain is that's it's almost refreshing to find that even the efficient Germans can bugger the job up occasionally.

I hope that you soon get it fixed, it must be very frustrating, although I presume that you combine your trips to the service centre with a holiday?

Thanks again.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes Hobbyfan we are going towards Bavaria at the moment, last time I was there on my own. Mrs Eb had to go home and do tax returns so I got the best of it. The lack of hot water for a week or so is only a minor inconvenience at this time of year.

The Frankia factory is in a beautiful area and they are really nice people and quite credible when they are telling you what you want to hear but we can get plenty of that in the UK too, Alan.


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

Gordon bennett , after the tales of the unexpected on here of late, . After the brownhills thread and this, let alone other tales of woe

I am glad I bought my first MH off a very nice man on Ebay.
Least with the money I saved over a dealer, if anything goes wrong
I wont be any the poorer. 

Gary


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Do it yourself and try and get your money back Alan.
It's a sad but common tale.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

gj1023 said:


> I am glad I bought my first MH off a very nice man on Ebay.
> Least with the money I saved over a dealer, if anything goes wrong
> I wont be any the poorer.
> 
> Gary


Got to agree with your sentiments in buying privately and saving some cash

You also have the choice of where you go to have work done.

I have used Peter Hambilton, Vanbitz, Camper UK, Watling Engineers
all great outfits, giving excellent customer service.

Andrew


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I had the choice of where to get the work done. It was not Frankia warranty work. I went to the factory because, foolishly, I believed the image they project. What a let down, Alan.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Frankia are not over helpful on the phone either. I needed a small part for a roof window. They took weeks to get a price from Remis.
I think it may have been Remis who delayed them as they are a joke, but Frankia should have kept me informed better.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Morning all,


Silly me, thinking that the germans were so superior with there engineering and every manufactuerd.




norm


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

erneboy said:


> I had the choice of where to get the work done. It was not Frankia warranty work. I went to the factory because, foolishly, I believed the image they project. What a let down, Alan.


I don't think you can be blamed for assuming the manufacturer would make a decent job of repairing your van.

I think the point I was trying to make is that if your are not tied to a dealer/agent, then you are free to choose companies that have been recommended, where you can be assured of good service.

From what you have said your warranty arrangement gives you the same options.

Andrew


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

goldi said:


> Morning all,
> 
> Silly me, thinking that the germans were so superior with there engineering and every manufactuerd.
> 
> norm


Don't think you can make that assumption based on this one experience, which could be down to one slipshod individual

Andrew


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I am not trying to make comparisons between standards in the UK and those in Germany. I think both can vary.

When I was at the Frankia Service Centre they had three attempts at repairing my van, the first twice it was quite clear on a quick visual inspection that their efforts had not been successful. The third time there seemed to be an improvement but I found the next day, a Saturday, that was not so. At that point I lost the will to go on with them knowing by now that I could fix it myself. What I am saying is that I doubt it was the same person each time but I have no way of knowing.

It was only this week that I found the leaking boiler to cap the whole experience off. The little plywood plinth the boiler sits on is badly delaminated which indicates to me that this problem is not a new one. They should have found it especially as it is right beside the shower which was also leaking, Alan.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Alan, my comments were not directed to you but the previous poster who seemed to draw a generalised conclusion based on your experience



Andrew


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes Andrew, I thought so thanks, Alan.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I wonder if you can guess where I'm booked into 2nd week of Sept !


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Oops! What are you booked in for Trek? Alan.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

1:
roof rack bracket at rear corner is only fixed with a single wood screw 

this has pulled out of roof rendering the roof rack useless -I was going to drill through the roof, sleeve it with aluminum tube, plate underneath & bolt through the lot, but will see what Frankia do 

2:
our over garage double bed is sagging in the middle - I have fixed extra timber supports myself to correct this but Frankia has a metal support fix

3:
grey waste value & pipework in double floor freezing up during ski trips to the alps. I expect them to add extra radiators in double floor by service hatch


plus couple of other little things that are now playing up like the hot & cold water dump valves in the floor are weeping that I was hoping to get replacement parts for 


these are all things easily sorted out by me - & no way would I have let any UK centre do this work - I am / was expecting the Frankia service centre to be different _I had a tour around the place in 2008 when I collected my new van from the factory & was impressed at the time - FINGERS CROSSED

anyway we decided to go as we have done very little touring in Germany . 

Any tips on places to visit in Southern Germany / Bavaria in the 7 to 10 days that we will have there would be appreciated


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Hello Trek, after any plumbing work I suggest you check check for leaks carefully before leaving. Good luck.

I only spent one weekend in that area but Bischofsgrun is not far away and is a lovely hilltop village in the middle of a forest. I spent a very nice weekend there, lots of pubs and restaurants, very picturesque. There is a small stellplatz with all the facilities, 1 euro a night I think, pay at the tourist office.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Just a quick update.

I emailed the Frankia Service Centre last Monday, one week ago. I explained that the work they had done detecting leaks for me had failed to find and fix the problem. 

When I was at the factory they gave me an absolute assurance that they had dome damp checks and there was no damp in my van. They had replaced drains at my shower due to a leak there. A few days later I discovered the shower drains were still leaking and that the hot water boiler was dripping constantly into the underfloor area. By the time I discovered this I was hundreds of miles away from the Service Centre. The boiler leak had caused delamination in the little platform the boiler sits on. Delamination of plywood takes quite some time therefore this leak must have been present when they inspected my van. I repaired both these leaks myself. In the light of all this I requested that they refund my money.

I have had no reply. I will send a copy of my email again today, Alan.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

Hi Erneboy

did you take any photos of the source of the leak before you removed the tank & the removal / replacement process?

Frankia may be more sympathetic to your claims if they can see photographic evidence of a leak that the missed?




why did the tank leak?

on my Frankia ALDE system there is a copper heater matrix to supply some blown air to various zones - but Copper / aluminum / antifreeze mixture can cause corrosion

ALDE stress never mix copper & aluminum in one of their systems!

I queried this with ALDE UK & Frankia when I first bought mine & noticed the copper matrix 

ALDE UK where great, they took all the details then a couple of days later contacted me to say that they had been in touch with ALDE Germany & could assure me that this installation was ok


I am just back myself from the Frankia Service centre in Marktschorgast & at the moment I cannot fault them - I found them very helpful & the quality of workmanship excellent - they were far superior to any UK workshop I have been too! and did extra work even though my warranty has now expired (they changed my shower tray even though it hadn't cracked like yours it was very soft & spongy)

I must add that I had booked in for my warranty work months ago but people were turning up with out appointments & they were trying their best to fit these in especially those who lived in far off countries like us. 

one guy just turned up on route from Croatia with his wife & 2 toddlers to his home in Sweden after a blow out on a rear tyre in a motorway tunnel! - his Fiat was approx 6 years old & he had only bought it this spring - he thought the rear tyres were the originals as the fronts had been previously replaced!

the puncture had riped a hole in the inner wheel arch ripped off the out arch & badly damaged all surrounding areas it looked as though a tractor wheel had run down the side of his van - he waited for 4 days & they managed to work him in & did a first class job repairing it all

Just maybe because you also just popped in on the off chance they couldn't spend the time to get & find your leak - which you had obviously been looking for yourself & it had taken you some time & perseverance before you found it yourself
don't get me wrong I fully understand your feelings & would be angry myself , i'm just trying to balance it up a bit!

Best Regards

Trek


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Trek, glad to hear all is OK with you.

I have photographs and I have been in touch with Frankia once a week reminding them that I await a reply.

What really annoyed me was the assurance that there was no damp in my van when I found the shower still leaking (which they said they had repaired) the next day and the hot tank leak (which they did not find) a few days later. Their assurance was based on having tested with a meter, or so they told me, how could that be when the hot tank was flooding the underfloor and the plinth it rests on had become delaminated.

I took the hot tank to the manufacturers, Elgena, they repaired it under warranty and we discussed the cause of the leak and the use of additives in the heating system. All was as it should be it was just a badly welded seam in the tank. I did the removal and refitting myself.

Tomorrow it will be three weeks since I first contacted Frankia asking for a refund. They replied ten days ago saying that my email had been passed on to the Service Centre for their consideration. I will ask again tomorrow for news of their decision.

I would like to stress that all through this I have been perfectly polite, appropriately grateful for their having fitted me in and very complimentary about what nice people they are. I do however think that no customer should have to accept this level of service from any company. The better the company, I would have thought, the quicker they would respond to such a situation in an attempt to resolve it and restore the customers confidence in them, at least to some degree. I could understand the silence and reluctance if I had been nasty with them. I am quite willing to publish all my emails here if anyone wants to see how I approached this situation, Alan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Just to update the story here is my most recent email to Frankia. I have been emailing once a week asking for their reply and have had no response since their email dated 7th September saying they were waiting for an answer from the Service Centre.



Hello Kathrin,

I had my boiler repaired by Elgena. They did the repair under warranty. I am sure they will confirm that if you want to contact them.

I removed and refitted the boiler myself.

I have a photograph of the plywood the boiler rests on, this clearly shows the delamination of the plywood. I can send you a copy of the photograph if you want to see it.

As you know I have asked that the money I was charged for the work done should be refunded. There were three jobs when I was at your Service Centre. Only one of the three jobs was properly done, that was sealing three leaking windows. I do not expect the money for that work to be refunded even though my van is just over two years old and should not have had leaking windows.

Can you please let me know whether Frankia intend to refund at least some of my money.

Regards, .......... ........... .



I am dismayed at the lack of response but not really surprised. It's quite clear they think that I may just go away if they don't reply. I may now consider taking advice from a German lawyer, Alan.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have moved this from Frankia Motorhomes to Company Reports since it is dealing with a specific company and does contain indentifying details.

I hope that this is acceptable to all those involved (too numerous to PM) - if not, let me know and I will discuss possible alternatives with the other Moderators.

Dave

For the Moderators.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Dave, I did consider where best to post it, it's already in Company Reports here, http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-88555-latest-on-frankia-service-centre.html

I put the detail in the Frankia section to inform other owners or potential owners of the detail.

I put the synopsis in Company Reports so that it could be found there too. My intention was to update the Company Reports post without giving blow by blow detail when a resolution is reached.

Don't you think it should be in both so that people will find it no matter which they choose to look in, Alan.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Replaced in Frankia Motorhomes at request of OP after discussion with OP.

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Quick update. Still no reply from Frankia re. my request for a refund. I sent this email today.

Dear ........., is there a reason why you do not answer my emails. It is now a long time since I first contacted you and I have sent weekly reminders. Not answering emails reflects badly on your company, Alan ..............

I am now considering instructing a German lawyer. I don't speak German but I have friends who will help me and introduce me to a lawyer. I find it very hard to believe that this could be necessary over a couple of hundred Euros. I could just forget it but that is what they are hoping for, Alan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Update, I got an answer of sorts.

Here:

Hello Mr. ............,

Unfortunately, our technicians are currently on business trips almost all the time.
We kindly ask you to have some more patience. We will answer your question approx. late October.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Frankia-GP GmbH

They must do a lot of business travel as it's quite a few weeks since I first contacted them on this matter. I am surprised they get any work done with so much travelling. I make the assumption that those people they call Technicians are the people who do the work, Alan.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Wouldn't be surprised if your analysis in your previous post was correct, Ie they are employing stalling techniques in the hope you will go away.

Hard to believe why a quality manufacturer would want to behave this way.


Andrew


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## ingram (May 12, 2005)

erneboy said:


> Unfortunately, our technicians are currently on business trips almost all the time.
> .


It means that they have been eating in the staff canteen and are consequently spending large amounts of time in the toilet ...............

Harvey


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Update. I got this from Frankia this morning.


Hello Mr. ...................,


Please excuse the long delay in getting back to your complaint.


We have checked this matter and can inform you as follows:

You are complaining that the damp check was not done properly by us.

As per our documents we did not carry out a full damp check and we also did not invoice this to you.

Our invoice no. 303622 of 01.07.2010 is for the following work:

sealing shower, checking and sealing windows of the left side wall;

refitting of ledge in shower corner, checking and repair of control panel

The 3 items of our invoice are:
1) Sikaflex (EUR 11),

2) small parts (EUR 4,96),

3) labour 3 hrs (3 x EUR 68,91)

Therefore, we think that we did not invoice any job which was not done properly.

In case of any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards,

Frankia-GP GmbH


and sent this back to them:


K.........., thank you for your reply. I am afraid there must have been a misunderstanding when we met.

Regardless of what your records show the main problem I came to you with was that there was water in the underfloor area which was partly due to a leak below the shower, I could see water dripping there. I made no mention of a leak coming from above the shower and did not request that any work be done there. A few days later I also discovered that there was a leak in the hot water boiler. This leak was present when my van was at your factory and the technicians failed to notice it. I know the leak had been there for some time because the plywood below the boiler has delaminated which takes a while to happen.

Your technician told me he had replaced one of the drains which screws to the shower from below and one pipe. I asked what had been done about the damp and was assured that the leak had been repaired, dried out and checked with a damp meter.

You may have tried to do what you thought I had asked you to do, but it is clear that the water in the underfloor area I discussed with you when we met was not fully investigated or properly repaired.

I remain unhappy with the service provided by Frankia. Even if you think you have only charged me for the work you did surely you must agree that a leaking boiler should have been detected. I repeat that my main problem was water in the underfloor area and it was not fixed.

Leaking windows on a van which is just over two years old should be a matter of concern to you and I was surprised to be charged for fixing those, especially considering that it was all the windows on one side of my van which clearly indicates to me that they had not been correctly fitted in the factory.

If Frankia regard the service I have received as satisfactory then I will not be buying another Frankia.

I am not prepared to argue about this any more but I would be interested to hear your answers to my comments, Alan.


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

Hi all,

I was interested in this topic due to all the references to leaking showers. I noticed this summer that my shower was leaking, which became apparent when I washed it down then found water on the ground outside. However, I could not for the life of me find any damp inside, either underneath the shower or in the double floor around the shower, wheelarch, water tanks, etc. Consequently I have no idea where or how the water was tracking from the shower stall to the ground.

When I stripped out the 'sealing' quadrant between the shower walls and the tray, I found that the construction method almost guaranteed a poor seal because two sides had a metal strip which prevented the plastic quadrant sitting properly on the tray. I fixed this myself, having seen numpty dealers demonstrate incompetence at this task in the past.


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