# If you don't have to plug in, share your secret?



## andrewball1000

To me, ever since I saw my first VW camper, the MH concept has always been about independence, the ability go and stop anywhere.

Yet there are many owners who struggle to go more than a couple of nights without EHU. There are also many solar skeptics and persons who can prove that a bumble bee cant fly!

It could be useful for new owners to hear from owners that are truly independent of EHU. 

If you can genuinely say that you dont have to plug in at all, then please post the details on this thread on how you achieve this. 

What is your Declaration of Independence?


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## erneboy

andrewball1000 said:


> There are also many solar skeptics and persons who can prove that a bumble bee cant fly!


?? Solar gives what it gives. It enough for some and not for others. I have 300w and it won't cope with our demands on already slightly depleted batteries today near Murcia in Spain because it's overcast and raining. I am probably only getting a couple of Ah right now, Alan.


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## nicholsong

Andrew

I will kick it off (Edit - beaten to it)

In three years of owning I have never been on EHU, even on the odd night when I have been on a site (4 times I think). EHU only at home, so batteries start off well full.

I wild camp.

I do not normally stay more than 2 nights in one spot.

I average 25 miles a day

I have a Sterling B2B charger which keeps the leisure batteries(2x85A) topped-up on those distances. (For Newbies - this is necessary because the alternator gives priority to charging the engine battery but not much to the leisure batteries. The B2B overcomes this problem)

Nearly all lights are LED.

Heating is Truma (gas only-no electric element) blown air.

Geoff


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## peejay

Hi,

Our modest set up is...

2 x 110 ah batteries
1 x 90ah solar panel
1 x Sterling B2B
LED lighting throughout
Nasa panel to monitor batteries

We are light power users.
Fridge is always on gas.
LCD TV which is only occasionaly used, at most to watch a film.
In cold weather heating on blown air in the evening then again in the morning, unless in Alpine areas when its left on low all night, even then the battery status never drops below about 70% after a day or two.
Water heating is gas only.
In summer to solars keep everything topped up under control.
In winter we don't usually stay more than a couple of nights in one place, then the Sterling B2B comes into its own and tops up the batteries with the journey to the next stoppover.

On a 4 month trip Feb - Jun this year we only hooked up twice because it was included in the price whether we wanted it or not.

On a 2 month trip between Aug and Oct recently, we didn't hook up at all.

No secret, we just don't use much power.

Pete


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## teemyob

*no EHU*

For no EHU, you need good batteries. No point in messing around trying to keep or revive old ones. At least you can get money for the old ones scrap.

Electrical power.

2 x 180ah batteries + Cab battery uprated
2 x 75w + 1 x 80w Solar (230w)

Thats it.

Solar charges both leisure and cab battery.
Or engine when running.

Heating:

We can heat by Gas, Diesel Engine or EHU.

When I got the motorhome, frankia must have designed it for EHU as with all the lights on inside, they drew around 20amps. I have replaced around 40 halogen bulbs with LED and even with them all on now, 5 amps is the most it draws.

But in winter dark evening use, we are using around 2-5 amps per hour or around 1.5 whilst asleep.

Don't forget, old batteries will not be anu use to reply on.

TM


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

Have generator will travel.. And a solar panel of unknown size as it was on the is van when I bought it, my 1st van i had a 120 watt one put on which managed most of the time when sunny, this unknown one does not so will have to put another panel on sometime next year. Which begs the question can panels be of any un matching wattage or does it have to be the same wattage as the existing?.

Generator fills in the gaps, and when wild camping the only thing I tend to annoy is the wildlife :wink: .

ray.


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## nicholsong

Ray wrote

'Generator fills in the gaps, and when wild camping the only thing I tend to annoy is the wildlife'

Doesn't seem to frighten the fish away Ray! :lol: 

Geoff


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## greenasthegrass

I have read power consumption does vary. We can go for four days that's with showers, heating, lighting and TV but we tend to turn it off alot and are very aware of what we use. It's the TV which is the highest consumer.

We thought about changing to LED's but can't be bothered. Every time a bulb goes we do consider it then buy another halogen. 

We do have two 110 batteries though. 

Greenie


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## wakk44

In spring/summer/autumn my declaration of independence is 2x125A/H leisure batteries and 165 watts of solar.Even with heavy use I have no problem keeping the leisure batteries topped up.I also have a BM1 battery monitor which is very useful for checking the consumption of the 12 volt appliances.



rayrecrok said:


> ....... Which begs the question can panels be of any un matching wattage or does it have to be the same wattage as the existing?.
> ray.


I have an 80 watt and added an 85 watt solar panel(different manufacturer) at a later date so no problem with non matching panels.Most I have got from them(according to the nasa monitor) is just over 10 Amps on a sunny day in June.

Solar is great except for the winter months when it is fairly ineffectual particularly for those who like to watch TV when it gets dark just after 4 

If I was living in the truck during the winter with no hook up then a generator would be my choice,not the most popular accessory I know but if used sensibly there shouldn't be a problem with annoying fellow campers.


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## 113016

Not been on a hook up for quite a while now, but will probably use a couple over the winter.
Just returned from a week on the Ambleside aire and we did not start the engine at all, BUT the first few days were very cloudy and my one 90 watt solar panel did not fully charge the battery so I needed to top up a little with the geny. One hour per day!
We are not power hungry and have LED lights. 
During the week we used blow hot air heating for about 5 hours in the evening and two hour in the morning and watched the TV for about two hours. Used the water pump for showers and everything else.
Had we moved about, I would not have needed the geny!
Summertime, we don't need hook up at all and this summer we even stayed put for 3 weeks and never started the engine. The solar panel; did it's job!
The secret is don't use power unless you need to.
Only one light at a time, minimal TV and no inverter.


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## rosalan

The time of year is of significance as there are longer days and more sunlight. In the summer, especially if travelling to Spain or S.France I am fully independent with 130 solar and a large gel battery, We rely to a large extent on gas (GasLow 11kg x 2) with heating, fridge and cooker supplying most of our needs. All lights are L.E.D. and our use of the tv is minimal, reading taking up much of our evenings.
In the winter with our ACSI card, we occasionally use camp sites and EHU (which is included), although there are precious few in France at this time of year. If we are 'travelling' then only use Aires as the journey tops up the batteries.
I am not sure how much roof space is available on VW's to get the best out of solar power.
Cheers
Alan


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## erneboy

Like Geoff we also have a B2B so if we plan when we need shopping or fuel we can usually time those trips to top up the batteries as well. We have 2 x 120 Ah batteries and do use quite a lot of power running computers, satellite internet and the heating if it's cold. Our requirements vary between around 50 and 75 Ah per day. Just checked and our 300w worth of solar is currently giving just under 2 amps, so today it will probably contribute 10 to 15 Ah toward our needs. I appreciate that figure could be increased considerably if we mounted the panels so we could angle them towards the sun.

All our lighting is LED, Alan.


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## 113016

yea, I forgot that.
We also have a thingy which takes some charge from the leisure battery to the engine battery.
Pretty important on these newer vans which drain the battery when not used!
Not sure what make mine is as it was fitted by Vanbits as part of the deal when they fitted a strickback alarm.


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## listerdiesel

Like most, we are mainly gas powered, car and trailer, so 12V only used for lighting, TV, winch for the show engine and controlling circuits and ignitors for the gas burners.

160W of solar and 2 X 55AH batteries in parallel.

So far we haven't seen a significant problem up to October usage, 4 nights at a time, so anticipate that longer periods would be OK as long as we have sun.

120A alternator in the car, so can pull charge off that if desperate.

Peter


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## Spacerunner

Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.

IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.

There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.


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## 113016

Spacerunner said:


> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival


Know exactly what you mean. When we were at Ambleside we were as snug as a bug in a rug with the blow hot air and yes we only use one light at a time, well mostly except when we need to see in two areas such as cooking or dishes.
But what I was really posting about, was that we had many a laugh when we noticed other campers sitting with big jackets on. Obviously they had no heating and couldn't be comfortable.  
And none stayed as long as us :lol:


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## GerryD

We have an 80W solar panel and twin 110Ah batteries. All lights are LED as standard and the 19" Tv is LED. We can comfortably survive a 5 night rally at New Year with no requirement for supplementary charge.
I bought a generator several years ago for use when on long rallies in the winter. I start it every November and take it with us at New Year, but have never yet had to connect whilst away.
If we are on a site where EHU is included, we use it but don't actually need it.
Gerry


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## grizzlyj

Our camper is battery based, 24 volt. Gas is only used for the hob, the sole means of cooking (Omnias are fab )

2x255Ah AGM batteries 

2x 110W (I think) solar panels

Vitrifrigo (Danfoss) compressor fridge

Some lights are LEDs and some are halogen which I think still give a nicer light. Several of the expensive LEDs popped on first use too 

Eberspacher D5WS for hot water and blown air heating

No special alternator or B2B, but that would be a next step because we need hook up every maybe 3-4 days in a Scottish winter even with short drives. 

Summer in southern France or south of that and we don't need to move at all. A hour of the heater on for hot water, two showers a day, fridge working hard but maintains cold beer, full batteries by evening 

Where you are and when will have a big impact on solar input, and so hook up requirement!

We like to park up a long way from anywhere, but if someone mostly stays on campsites then just 2x110Ah might be all thats needed?


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## cheshiregordon

we have the following:-

Electrical power.

2 x 120ah batteries + Cab battery
1x85w Kyocera Solar Panel

Solar charges both leisure and cab battery.

Fridge is the usual 3 way arrangement and heating is by gas (although we do have a 2kw portable heater)

Cooking is by gas although we (have a two hob electric unit and Remoska)

Nearly all the lights are LED

So I feel our unit is flexible and can sustain itself - however going away in the van is a hobby for me not a life style statement so while I want the freedom to go where I please stay where I please I also want the flexibility to use the van to best advantage.


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## nicholsong

Spacerunner said:


> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.
> 
> There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
> However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.


But EHU is only available on a SITE and that is a four-letter word! :lol:


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## Phil42

Since the days of the OP's first VW, the while concept has changed. We managed in two different VWs for many years with just a smallish leisure battery because, like most other people at the time, our expectations were very modest. I used an EHU for the first time in 1999.

We had some great times back in the day. It wasn't necessarily better or worse. But it was very different.

Phil


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## Phil42

And what's so great about parking up by the roadside? Or even somewhere that's really wild?

We've stayed in some fantastic campsites.

Phil


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## Mrplodd

B2B chargers ???

This is meant a very serious question not a "pop" at those who have them fitted.

As I understand it the rationale behind a B2B charger is that the vehicle alternator primarily charges the starter battery FIRST and then charges the leisure batteries.

Assuming that is correct why do you require a B2B? Modern alternators pump out a LOT of amps (needed to power all the on board goodies such as aircon, heated seats/mirrors/windscreens/cd players, wipers, DLR's etc etc.)

Most modern vehicles (if looked after) start pretty quickly, so the drain on the starter battery, although very high, is short lived, Therefore the (over 100 amps) output from the alternator must surely "replace" the charge used in starting the engine in a very short space of time? If so the output from the alternator is then pushed into the leisure batteries until they are fully charged?

I accept that a B2B will diverty SOME of the alternator output to the leisure batteries as soon as the engine is running, but if the alternator fully charges the starter battery (which dont forget is ONLY being used as a starter battery. All of your leisure stuff such as lights, 12V TV and heater fans are powered by the leisure batteries alone) in a very short space of time why bother to divert a few minutes of that initial charge via an expensive B2B ?? 

As I said earlier this is meant as a serious question so I would be grateful for a definative answer (backed up by figures) rather than a "Well it (seems) to work for me and I have never had a flat leisure battery" sort of response. I would also suggest that any makers claims are viewed with suspicion, they are hardly going to say "Our product 

I have a 100w solar panel, 2 x 110AH leisure batteries and rarely use EHU (that I have to pay extra for :wink: ) during the summer months. In the winter I tend to use sites because of the convenience of having heated showers and toilets and the ability to watch TV if I want etc without having to watch/worry or even think, about the state of my leisure batteries. I am not decrying those who wild camp all the time, I enjoy it when the weather suits. In fact when in France (usually for a month at a time in August or September) I usually only check into a camp site about 2 or 3 times and then primarily to use the washing machine :wink: 

Most decent motorhomes will go for a good few days "off grid" if they have a couple of decent leisure batteries and owners with a sensible attitude to power consumption :lol:


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## nicholsong

Phil42 said:


> And what's so great about parking up by the roadside? Or even somewhere that's really wild?
> 
> We've stayed in some fantastic campsites.
> 
> Phil


Phil

How is this list for starters?

Choose one's view

Nature - hares gambolling 25 metres away

Park facing whatever direction one fancies

Not looking out at some slab-sided MH - like ours!

Being able to come and go at anytime

Not having kids around/footballs being kicked against MH

Not having to book and be in any particular place on that date.

Moving on or staying put at will

And not having to pay for the privileges of the above

I could go on :roll:

Geoff


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## kenthepub

*Solar Power*

Hi Andrew
We have fitted 2x80 watt panels coupled to a Victron MPPT regulator
And have 2x220 amp gel batteries all monitored by a Victron 600 since fitting never had to go on EHU even when parked on drive in winter.

I have changed all lights to LED and TV is 12 volt low watt, fridge is only electric though, but still we never use more than 60 amps overnight and even in low light conditions the Victron has always recharged the batteries by early afternoon.

Regards Ken.


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## Techno100

Mrplodd said:


> B2B chargers ???
> 
> This is meant a very serious question not a "pop" at those who have them fitted.
> 
> As I understand it the rationale behind a B2B charger is that the vehicle alternator primarily charges the starter battery FIRST and then charges the leisure batteries.
> 
> Assuming that is correct why do you require a B2B? Modern alternators pump out a LOT of amps (needed to power all the on board goodies such as aircon, heated seats/mirrors/windscreens/cd players, wipers, DLR's etc etc.)
> 
> Most modern vehicles (if looked after) start pretty quickly, so the drain on the starter battery, although very high, is short lived, Therefore the (over 100 amps) output from the alternator must surely "replace" the charge used in starting the engine in a very short space of time? If so the output from the alternator is then pushed into the leisure batteries until they are fully charged?
> 
> I accept that a B2B will diverty SOME of the alternator output to the leisure batteries as soon as the engine is running, but if the alternator fully charges the starter battery (which dont forget is ONLY being used as a starter battery. All of your leisure stuff such as lights, 12V TV and heater fans are powered by the leisure batteries alone) in a very short space of time why bother to divert a few minutes of that initial charge via an expensive B2B ??
> 
> As I said earlier this is meant as a serious question so I would be grateful for a definative answer (backed up by figures) rather than a "Well it (seems) to work for me and I have never had a flat leisure battery" sort of response. I would also suggest that any makers claims are viewed with suspicion, they are hardly going to say "Our product
> 
> I have a 100w solar panel, 2 x 110AH leisure batteries and rarely use EHU (that I have to pay extra for :wink: ) during the summer months. In the winter I tend to use sites because of the convenience of having heated showers and toilets and the ability to watch TV if I want etc without having to watch/worry or even think, about the state of my leisure batteries. I am not decrying those who wild camp all the time, I enjoy it when the weather suits. In fact when in France (usually for a month at a time in August or September) I usually only check into a camp site about 2 or 3 times and then primarily to use the washing machine :wink:
> 
> Most decent motorhomes will go for a good few days "off grid" if they have a couple of decent leisure batteries and owners with a sensible attitude to power consumption :lol:


http://www.sterling-power.com/products-battbatt-info.htm


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## andyandsue

*a question and a some help*

first the help

To make your batteries last longer try to avoid power hungry blown heating.....gasp......!

I know its dodgy to criticize peoples vans which they have spent a fortune on;and love dearly, but really , blown heating !!!

We get by great with a truma convector and are always toasty warm even down to our record -21oC whilst sking ( the fuel was buggered though )

Now the the question

As part of a refurb after 7 years fulltiming im fitting a couple of large ..110Ah batteries and maybe a B2B charger.....
do they have to be vented to allow for the higher charge voltage from the charger?

this affects my choice of batteries and hence size of area for storage

thanks sue and andrew


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## listerdiesel

*Re: a question and a some help*



andyandsue said:


> As part of a refurb after 7 years fulltiming im fitting a couple of large ..110Ah batteries and maybe a B2B charger.....
> do they have to be vented to allow for the higher charge voltage from the charger?
> thanks sue and andrew


A wet battery will need a vented compartment, a sealed battery will not.

Peter


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## andrewball1000

Thanks for all those independents who have replied. It is valuable for a number of people to read how you have managed to achieve this. Your factual experiences are making for an interesting thread.

Please can we keep on topic. If you do not meet the criteria of the OP you ARE off topic. Please start another thread for any other questions, opinions or discussions so we can keep this one tight. 

Thanks


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## cheshiregordon

nicholsong said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.
> 
> There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
> However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.
> 
> 
> 
> But EHU is only available on a SITE and that is a four-letter word! :lol:
Click to expand...

That maybe true in the UK but not abroad. Have stayed at two aires which provided EHU this year in France.


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## andyandsue

*yes but*

thanks Lister 
Im aware that sealed batteries dont need to be vented ,but does the charging voltage produced by sterling B2B chargers exclude the use of sealed batteries

im looking to fit 2/3 numax 110ah sealed batteries and later fit a B2B Charger and dont want to snooker myself!

thanks sue and andrew


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## nicholsong

*Re: a question and a some help*



listerdiesel said:


> andyandsue said:
> 
> 
> 
> As part of a refurb after 7 years fulltiming im fitting a couple of large ..110Ah batteries and maybe a B2B charger.....
> do they have to be vented to allow for the higher charge voltage from the charger?
> thanks sue and andrew
> 
> 
> 
> A wet battery will need a vented compartment, a sealed battery will not.
> 
> Peter
Click to expand...

I think it is recommended that when a B2B is used the batteries should be vented not sealed. and not Gel. Remember to top-up regularly as higher charge rate needs it.

For Andy and Sue

I do not find blown air very heavy on power after the first few minutes because it cuts down to a 'waft' once the required temp is reached. Maybe it is because the Arto is well insulated.

I only have 2x85A leisure batteries but like you will try to upgrade to 220A, but not at moment because I cannot bring myself to throw away existing ones while they are still functioning. When I do I am seriously considering going for 2x6v 220A Trojan 'traction' batteries.

Geoff


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## grizzlyj

From Techno's link to Sterling on the previous page 

"For best effect use open lead acid batteries, avoid gel, sealed and AGM batteries"


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## Antonia

Hi Folks

My van has both solar and a B2B charger. We have 200Watts of solar panels as 2 x 60W 1 x 40W and 3 x 20W Monocrystaline panels.
This is due to the way we had to add them over time. Also because if something breaks one we don't loose all our power.
I have 1 x 20W going through a standard regulator into the cab battery 100Ahr, this maintains a good charge over winter and covers any current draw due to the Alarm system always being on. 
We have a MPPT 200W regulator running into the House 110Ahr wet battery.

In summer we now run a Waco compressor fridge at 42W ( the old 3way did not keep the food cold enough ), a LED/LCD TV at 32W, A Fiamma turbo vent, a full set of LED lamps and strip lights. 

A B1 battery monitor helps keep an eye onthings. We go off EHU for weeks at a time in the summer staying sat still. Driving a lilttle way gives a massive boost and is more then enough on its own in the winter.
We only use EHU when its sooo very hot and I have to have the aircon on, usually in the south of France in August.

We have an oil filled 750W radiator for use on EHU in the winter, or gas catalytic heater if no EHU. Cooking is via gas or Electric hob if on site with EHU.

We are pretty much covered, all in all.

One thing I will say tho, the Stirling B2B is a sexy beast and wonderfull if you drive a bit every few days.

Regards

Antonia


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## listerdiesel

*Re: yes but*



andyandsue said:


> thanks Lister
> Im aware that sealed batteries dont need to be vented ,but does the charging voltage produced by sterling B2B chargers exclude the use of sealed batteries
> 
> im looking to fit 2/3 numax 110ah sealed batteries and later fit a B2B Charger and dont want to snooker myself!
> 
> thanks sue and andrew


You'll be constrained by the type of charging and the batteries that it will work with.

Our Solar controller has three choices of battery voltage settings, including Nicad, but the Sterling system uses voltages that would be a problem for sealed battery types.

Unless you are going to get seriously into heavy battery charging and discharging, a simple single-voltage charger/shore supply is more than adequate, and if you have a good solar panel setup as well, that should make you independent of EHU for 95% of the time.

We work with large industrial systems, and generally we are looking for 10+ years battery life on float with little depth of discharge, 20+ years if Plante batteries are used. Sealed batteries don't have the life expectancy of wet types, despite the manufacturer's claims.

The consumer battery/charger industry is a nightmare, and one that we don't go into with our charger products.

Peter


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## Easyriders

Spacerunner said:


> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.
> 
> There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
> However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.


We tend to agree. We have looked at many aires, but they mostly look like rather cheerless places, rather like living on a car park. In good weather, we like to have our table and chairs outside, and cook outside, which you can't do with an aire. In winter, we like a bit more comfort, and not to have to move on every day if it's cold and wet.

If you're on a campsite where kids kick footballs into your van, you're on the wrong site!

Also, what is the cost of all these solar panels, LED lights and other equipment needed to stay off EHU? The total could pay for many campsite fees, especially if you choose the right camp site. The one we are on in Portugal charges €175 per month, plus metered electricity at 30c per Kw. We use 3-4 Kw a day, for the fridge, a Waeco freezer, lights, charging the laptop, playing the ipod, and occasional use of the electric water heater, to save on gas. The heating is gas warm air.

And of course the EHU keeps our vehicle and leisure batteries charged.

Horses for courses, but it's difficult to understand why people pay a fortune for a MH, then more to fit solar, refillable gas etc, if the only reason is to avoid site fees.


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## erneboy

For many of us it's not to avoid site fees. It's to avoid sites.

I didn't mention that we also have an Efoy which is a great bit of kit but the electricity coming from that comes at a very high price, Alan.


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## rayrecrok

erneboy said:


> For many of us it's not to avoid site fees. It's to avoid sites.
> 
> .


Hi.

Nail, head, hit. :wink:

ray.


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## nicholsong

Easyriders wrote

'if the only reason is to avoid site fees'

See my post at 1322094 above.

My reasons do not even include avoiding site fees and I doubt whether that is the motivation for many wild-campers.

I think that to include the phrase 'only reason' shows a misunderstanding of wild-camping. Is your 'only reason' for being on site is that you can pay site fees. :wink: 

Geoff


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## Kev1

Well as relative newcomers
had the van (our first)18 months

Bought off E bay and had been a demonstrator for a M?H company that fitted accessories 
So it came with
LPG on board gene
1500w Inverter
Eberspecher heater
Sat system
and two telly's (we removed one)
80w Solar panel
Telair Hab air conditioning

I replaced the batteries with 3 x 110 leisure batteries.

and i replace all the halogen bulbs with led's

The van has blown air heating and we also carry a small blower heater for if we have EHU.

I think the on board charger is slow to charge the batteries.but tis probably underpowered 
(not sure what output it is)

We try not to use sites we prefer wilding and can cope for long periods just being sensible.


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## Spacerunner

Easyriders said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.
> 
> There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
> However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.
> 
> 
> 
> We tend to agree. We have looked at many aires, but they mostly look like rather cheerless places, rather like living on a car park. In good weather, we like to have our table and chairs outside, and cook outside, which you can't do with an aire. In winter, we like a bit more comfort, and not to have to move on every day if it's cold and wet.
> 
> If you're on a campsite where kids kick footballs into your van, you're on the wrong site!
> 
> Also, what is the cost of all these solar panels, LED lights and other equipment needed to stay off EHU? The total could pay for many campsite fees, especially if you choose the right camp site. The one we are on in Portugal charges €175 per month, plus metered electricity at 30c per Kw. We use 3-4 Kw a day, for the fridge, a Waeco freezer, lights, charging the laptop, playing the ipod, and occasional use of the electric water heater, to save on gas. The heating is gas warm air.
> 
> And of course the EHU keeps our vehicle and leisure batteries charged.
> 
> Horses for courses, but it's difficult to understand why people pay a fortune for a MH, then more to fit solar, refillable gas etc, if the only reason is to avoid site fees.
Click to expand...

I'm not against wild camping or using aires. In fact my van is kitted out for this type of use and most of my continental touring is done using aires.

However during the winter months I can see no point or enjoyment driving round in bad weather, in rain and wind and worse. Then trying to relax after a day's touring and worrying if the battery is going to last out or can I run the water heater long enough to have a shower.
In poor weather I need to set up properly so I can function properly and keep the rain, mud and cold out of the van. Therefore I need a pitch with mains electricity and access to water and waste disposal and not be concerned where or when I can next use the toilet!


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## rayrecrok

Spacerunner said:


> Easyriders said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone would think that EHU was a four-letter word......it ain't.
> 
> IMO evenings away during the winters would be a pretty cheerless affair if I had to sit in the half dark squinting at a book wrapped in a blanket trying to keep warm all because I didn't want to pay £3 a day for mains electric.
> Motorhoming should be an enjoyment not a survival course.
> 
> There's no big secret to declare independence. Just keep moving on at short intervals so that the habitation battery gets charged at regular intervals.
> However, some, maybe most, prefer to do less driving during the bad weather months and stay put for longer and need EHU for a comfortable sojourn.
> 
> 
> 
> We tend to agree. We have looked at many aires, but they mostly look like rather cheerless places, rather like living on a car park. In good weather, we like to have our table and chairs outside, and cook outside, which you can't do with an aire. In winter, we like a bit more comfort, and not to have to move on every day if it's cold and wet.
> 
> If you're on a campsite where kids kick footballs into your van, you're on the wrong site!
> 
> Also, what is the cost of all these solar panels, LED lights and other equipment needed to stay off EHU? The total could pay for many campsite fees, especially if you choose the right camp site. The one we are on in Portugal charges €175 per month, plus metered electricity at 30c per Kw. We use 3-4 Kw a day, for the fridge, a Waeco freezer, lights, charging the laptop, playing the ipod, and occasional use of the electric water heater, to save on gas. The heating is gas warm air.
> 
> And of course the EHU keeps our vehicle and leisure batteries charged.
> 
> Horses for courses, but it's difficult to understand why people pay a fortune for a MH, then more to fit solar, refillable gas etc, if the only reason is to avoid site fees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not against wild camping or using aires. In fact my van is kitted out for this type of use and most of my continental touring is done using aires.
> 
> However during the winter months I can see no point or enjoyment driving round in bad weather, in rain and wind and worse. Then trying to relax after a day's touring and worrying if the battery is going to last out or can I run the water heater long enough to have a shower.
> In poor weather I need to set up properly so I can function properly and keep the rain, mud and cold out of the van. Therefore I need a pitch with mains electricity and access to water and waste disposal and not be concerned where or when I can next use the toilet!
Click to expand...

Hi.

Nowt wrong with that :wink:.

ray.


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## oldun

peejay said:


> Hi,
> 
> Our modest set up is...
> 
> 2 x 110 ah batteries
> 1 x 90ah solar panel
> 1 x Sterling B2B
> LED lighting throughout
> Nasa panel to monitor batteries
> 
> We are light power users.
> Fridge is always on gas.
> LCD TV which is only occasionaly used, at most to watch a film.
> In cold weather heating on blown air in the evening then again in the morning, unless in Alpine areas when its left on low all night, even then the battery status never drops below about 70% after a day or two.
> Water heating is gas only.
> In summer to solars keep everything topped up under control.
> In winter we don't usually stay more than a couple of nights in one place, then the Sterling B2B comes into its own and tops up the batteries with the journey to the next stoppover.
> 
> On a 4 month trip Feb - Jun this year we only hooked up twice because it was included in the price whether we wanted it or not.
> 
> On a 2 month trip between Aug and Oct recently, we didn't hook up at all.
> 
> No secret, we just don't use much power.
> 
> Pete


This post explains the most important point of being independent of the ehu.

Just read the last sentence.

"We don't use much power".

If you have satellite TV, DVD players, computers etc then being independent of the ehu means that almost certainly you must be dependant upon the genny.

Not many of us that the space inside and on the roof or the payload to carry very large solar panels and three or four batteries.


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## listerdiesel

oldun said:


> This post explains the most important point of being independent of the ehu.
> 
> Just read the last sentence.
> 
> "We don't use much power".
> 
> If you have satellite TV, DVD players, computers etc then being independent of the ehu means that almost certainly you must be dependant upon the genny.
> 
> Not many of us that the space inside and on the roof or the payload to carry very large solar panels and three or four batteries.


Wouldn't necessarily agree with that, we have Satellite TV, Laptop computer etc etc., but we can happily run on solar power indefinitely, it's the toilet that needs emptying that normally restricts how long we can sit in one place.

We are just as likely to read a book or listen to the radio as watch TV, but we have sufficient solar power to keep us charged.

One point I would make is that your solar panel wattage should match your battery capacity, so if you have 220AH's worth of battery capacity, a single 80W panel is not enough and should be double that at least.

I know folks say that they manage, but your charging capacity should always exceed your usage by a factor of 1.5 or 2. That way you are less likely to run out of power.

We have a couple of generators, but we haven't used either. The 160W of solar and 110AH battery have been sufficient.

At some shows we can plug the 240V alternator on the show engine into the trailer to have an effective EHU of 1.5kW or more, but it only happens at certain shows that we can get the trailer and the engine close enough to do it.

Peter


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## damar1

We have been m/hing for many years ( our first van in 1969 ) we travel summer and winter, and i think we have used elh no more than a dozen times. I must admit we usually only stay in one place for 2 or 3 days. We have never had any trouble , the fridge is on gas we have a good leisure battery so no trouble to use the computer and the tv if in this country, when abroad we tend to read or computer games. I have never felt the need to cart sola panels, generates, or even a elh leads aroud Europe or even this country. May be i am wrong but thats the way we do it.


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## peaky

i have an 85w solar and one 95ah leisure battery, led lights 3 way fridge (always on gas )gas water heater and dieasel heating if needed, i always "wild camp" as we dont have any campsites here, the sun is so strong out here the solar keeps up very well but i dont use much anyhow, maybe interesting when touring europe !!!


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## Oscarmax

Since fitting 2 x 80 watt solar panel January 2012 to my existing 2 x 110 amp batteries, I have been totally self sufficient throughout the season.

I now have a stand alone 100 watt panel to compliment the above so should be even more independant.


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## 747

1 x 90W, 1 x 100W freestanding panels and 1 x 80W wind turbine.

In Winter we watch a 10.2" TV (1 amp drain) if there is no Sun or Wind and our 2 x 110 Ah batteries last 3 days at worst because I never let them get below a 50% discharge.

We never need a hookup and manage over Winter because we tend to do short trips.


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## airstream

*Hairdryer?*

Hi All,

We manage for days/weeks/months season and weather dependant with only one 80watt solar, 2x 6v 235a/h trojan batts

We had 3 months in the isle of man this year July to September no sites and no problems with power in normal use - however we had a few weekends with MGP/BSB/WSB and F1 all on the same days or catch up so TV on up to 10 hrs a day these weekends needed a couple of hours genny time

Our charger or as it is a Victron Multi inverter /charger, this charges the batteries at up to 50 amps which cuts dramatically the charging time

The Victron also powers the hairdryer which apparently is the most important bit of kit in the van!!

Winter months no problem for 4/5 days - just done 5 over Christmas but had 10 days first week in December at Berwick on Tweed and Edinburgh CC sites where it was very nice to have the electric heating on 24hrs and when raining to bad to walk TVDVD lights without limit

This to me is what Mohoming is about "choice" yes we can manage without EHU but if we want to we can

Ray


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## pippin

We have 2x85Ah leisure batteries but no solar.

We rarely stay in one place for more than a couple or three nights.

I second the fitting of the Sterling B2B - it made an enormous difference.

The driving keeps us charged up in between stops.

The toilet cassette was usually the limiting factor - a second one has solved that.

We use the MH all year round in UK for odd nighters and spring/summer/autumn in €U.

We keep it on EHU at home on a timer (night rate Economy 7!) and will hook-up if it is included elsewhere.

Having said that, we rarely use expensive sites, sometimes municipals and usually aires or wild-camp.

Our Scrabble set requires little power (except brain power!).


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## damar1

I must be missing something here WHY OH WHY do you need all this clutter


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## grizzlyj

damar1 said:


> I must be missing something here WHY OH WHY do you need all this clutter


What clutter and belonging to who? :?


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## damar1

grizzlyj said:


> damar1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must be missing something here WHY OH WHY do you need all this clutter
> 
> 
> 
> What clutter and belonging to who? :?
Click to expand...

When we are out and about in this countery and abrored people puting out lots of sola panals generaters leads for elh. I think is not nesersery to have to have mains electricity, for runing things like microwaves ,hair dryers sat tv,Computers ect, As i said preveusly we only have a good leisure battery, the fridge runs on gas, the computer and other things like kindel ds all work of 12v. And before the ladies ask how about hair drying a pipe from the hot air heating is all you need. So to me the above mensioned things are cluter and all that space can be put to better use. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION


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## 113016

If a person has even one 80 watt or more Solar panel, and only one leisure battery it is very easy to go off the grid for long periods, during the summertime, but winter is a different thing.
For winter and I am talking about no sunshine days, you need to plan a little, what you are, and when you are going to use power.
It also depends on if you are moving around or staying put. If staying put for several days, we would also use a geny for a couple of hours per day, Obviously taking into consideration if we had neighbouring vans and if so, we would use the geny when the neighbours were out.
Alternatively, have two solar panels and two leisure batteries and you might get by without the geny!
I think the secret is, to be aware of what power you are using and keep it minimal.


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## listerdiesel

damar1 said:


> When we are out and about in this country and abroad people putting out lots of solar panels generators, leads for EHU.
> 
> I think is not necessary to have to have mains electricity, for running things like microwaves ,hair dryers sat tv,Computers etc, As i said previously we only have a good leisure battery, the fridge runs on gas, the computer and other things like Kindle all work off 12v. And before the ladies ask how about hair drying a pipe from the hot air heating is all you need. So to me the above mentioned things are clutter and all that space can be put to better use. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION


Well, for a start, I think you have to take a broader view of what folks do with their vehicles and where they go. What is fine for you and the way you use your own vehicle is not going to fine for others, that is a fact of life, we are all different and have different needs.

If you are moving round a lot and have means to charge your battery, then you probably don't need EHU, solar panels or generator, but if you are staying in one spot for any length of time, and if you are using your computer or other entertainment system, plus lights, plus power for the water heater controller etc etc then you need either a much bigger battery or some means of charging the one you have.

Personally I think solar panels and B2B devices are the best things to hit motor caravanning in years, doing away with the need for EHU or generators.

We don't use a hair dryer, not that many people that I know do either, but I wouldn't tell Rita she couldn't have one if she wanted one, that would be silly.

We are all different, long may it be so.

Peter


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## damar1

Well listerdiesel I think the original thread was what we do to avoid hook up and i have said what we do, i appreciate its not the way other people do things. but we travel a lot in Europe and go to a lot of small villages to see the real parts of a country, where as people with a big van can not get to these places so maybe a site on the coast is the way they enjoy there trips abroad. As you say we are all different in what we wont from our m/n. We at one time ran a big van but found it was not for us as we felt restricted to where we went, so tried towing a car this also was not for us because we went somewhere in the car but had to go back every night to the where we had parked up.

May be i are living in thpastst when we started with a then called camper van, hook ups were not an option

But the main thing is that we all enjoy our vans


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## erneboy

We rarely find the size of our van restricts where we go. I do agree that the larger the van the more care is required on narrow roads though and once we did have to turn back.

I often think it quite odd that people who drive smaller vans feel qualified to judge where those who don't will and won't be able to go. Have you ever noticed that practically every village, no matter how remote needs to have transport links for deliveries, removals, building work, fuel supplies etc.? If a medium sized lorry can get there then so can most of us. Also modern agricultural machinery is often huge and very wide.

Of course it is possible that the very largest RVs might have difficulty. I don't know, I have never driven one so can't comment.

We favour remote places over popular tourist destinations too, Alan.


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## nicholsong

Alan wrote

' people who drive smaller vans feel qualified to judge where those who don't will and won't be able to go.'

I think they are probably chicken Alan :wink: :lol: 

Geoff


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## erneboy

Without singling anyone out Geoff I have noticed that some drivers seem to be seem to find anything larger that a car difficult to drive and there are even a few who have difficulty in cars. That too might account for it.

I do enjoy watching some of the spectacularly inept driving we see on aires, even when getting in and out of parking spaces which would present no difficulty for an HGV, always providing that some thought was given to the problem beforehand.

I must admit though that those tuggers who simply can't reverse a caravan take the biscuit on that every time, Alan.


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## damar1

andrewball1000 said:


> To me, ever since I saw my first VW camper, the MH concept has always been about independence, the ability go and stop anywhere.
> 
> Yet there are many owners who struggle to go more than a couple of nights without EHU. There are also many solar skeptics and persons who can prove that a bumble bee cant fly!
> 
> It could be useful for new owners to hear from owners that are truly independent of EHU.
> 
> If you can genuinely say that you dont have to plug in at all, then please post the details on this thread on how you achieve this.
> 
> What is your Declaration of Independence?


Well andrewball100, I thing a few people stayed on your topic lol


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## 747

Just one more way of looking at off hookup touring.

We have a big van and for the last 2 years have used a lot of C&CC Temporary Holiday Sites. We often stay put for up to 3 weeks (in some very beautiful places).

Before that, we wildcamped more and only stayed a maximum of 2 nights. This meant we were moving around more and consequently burning more diesel.

The daily cost of a C&CC THS equates to around 1 gallon of diesel, or to put it another way, 23 miles of travel.

By having the means to exist for extended periods without hookup (and the need to look for fresh water and toilet disposal) has made motorhoming less stressful and more relaxing. Over those 2 years we have made a number of friends who do the THS circuit. We are limited by having a number of dogs in the family, not so much by the size of the van. We can have a lot of nights away from home and still have a low average mileage for the year, thus saving a bit on other costs.

As previously said, we all do it differently.


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## nicholsong

We almost exactly replicate Pippin in our set-up.

B2B makes all the difference (don't know comparison with A2B)

As Pippin said once you are electric independent then cassette is limiting factor, so we did as he and bought a second cassette - might even go for a **** :roll:  

In 4 years I have only been on sites about 6 times and only on EHU once and that was my first time to test how to do it as I did not have EHU at home.

Doing a mental poll of this thread it appears that the answer to Andrew's Q seems to be that it is manageable for a low usage user with 

2X 80A(+) Batteries

B2B or similar

Plus (if staying for more than 3 days) one or more 80W(?) Solar panels.

My 2X90A Hab batteries were inherited 4 years ago so I do not know how old they are but they are still 85% efficient because, I believe, they are kept topped up by home EHU and the B2B.

I cannot remember who it was that posted that they had 2X235A 6 volt (presumably traction) batteries but when I change mine I think that will be my choice.

Geoff


----------

