# What about this idea folks?



## sparky20006

I have been reading on another thread about some poor devil breaking a leg in France and enduring all sorts of problems thereafter.
Somebody suggested creating an Emergency Area on the site for this but how about the following instead -

A voluntary register where any of us who so wish could enter our details such as address, mobiles, e-mail addresses etc which could be accessed via the site for anyone who gets into a bit of bother while out in their MHs.

We all know what it's like when your staying somewhere in the MH , stranded with no car and not knowing the local area - the smallest of problems can escalate , especially if you have no other transport or have mobility issues. 

Just look at how easy it would be to give someone a bit of a leg up if they needed it should something happen to them when they were a couple of miles away from you down the road. A quick lift to somewhere to get something fixed, a run to a local supplier you know for something necessary, even just a quick run to a local garage for a gallon of diesel.

I for one would not be in the slightest bit bothered if I had to pop out a couple of times or so in a year to give someone a lift for things like this. I am sure some know it alls will bleat on about emergency rescues, the AA, motorhome rescue policies, being prepared, worrying about people asking for help with trivial issues and lots of other negatives but we hardly qualify as a 'community' if all we do is exchange text every now and again on a forum. There are supposed to be tens of thousands of us registered on here and its only a small island so what's the problem?

Just think what peace of mind you would have if you knew that you could post up a 'help' on here and maybe get a bell on your mobile a few minutes or later or a text by someone local asking where you are and what the problem. As long as you are sensible and on the register and explain that you will only go 3 or 4 miles from the local address you specify or whatever distance is good for you.

We're not MH mechanics but sometimes just a quick lift to a local supplier is all that is needed instead of running up expensive taxi bills and waiting in pouring rain for buses. Although i don't do the continent yet (I wll soon) I am sure one covering France, Spain etc would be reallly helpful.

Obviously if you're at work or elsewhere or committed to other things you couldn't help but at least it's potentially an option and I am sure that there are loads of us dotted all across the UK.

I was at the hospital visiting someone the other day and an old lady was in tears in the car park in the pourring rain because she couldn't find her car in the dark. After ten minutes of driving her around I found it but then she was a nervous wreck and nearly had an accident getting it past the barrier. To save messing about I drove hers home and the wife followed us in our car. It was no big deal to us (30 to 40 minutes of my life) but was enormous to her. Sometimes the actual help needed is nothing compared to the desperation of those who need it.

Just a thought. 

If MHF wants to start one I'll go first. 5 miles radius of Glossop. Mobile and e-mail adress is ********** ************* 

It would be that easy.

Paul


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## tonyt

Yep, I'm up for that.


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## Mandale

sounds good to me


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## SaddleTramp

And me Chesterfield Derbyshire


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## Zebedee

Great idea, and laudably altruistic, but think very carefully about security.

This is an open forum, and every scrote on the planet has access to it. 8O 

Not wishing to put a damper on a lovely idea, but . . . . .  

Dave


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## SaddleTramp

Zebedee said:


> Great idea, and laudably altruistic, but think about security very carefully.
> 
> This is an open forum, and every scrote on the planet has access to it. 8O
> 
> Not wishing to put a damper on a lovely idea, but . . . . .
> 
> Dave


Couldn't it be in Subs Bar Dave. ?


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## Zebedee

SaddleTramp said:


> Couldn't it be in Subs Bar Dave. ?


Sure it could, but you have to think like a villain! :wink:

Wouldn't it be worth £12.50 a year to that well known mugger "Les the Lag" to access personal information that might be handy for identity (or other kinds of) theft! 8O 8O

Maybe I'm being over cautious . . . . all I'm really saying is, think carefully and explore all the angles. :wink:

Dave


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## brillopad

Stick me down for some of that, i've been helped out on here, and have helped others, great idea.

Dennis


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## sparky20006

The help could even be something as simple as texting someone in the area asking for advice about where to go for something that is needed.

As for security - good point but I wouldn't expect lone females to put their details on the database. It looks as though the majority of us are over 40 anyway - quite a level headed bunch in the scheme of things.

I'll wager that you would struggle finding anywhere in the UK more than 5 miles away from a MHF member.


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## SaddleTramp

Zebedee said:


> Sure it could, but you have to think like a villain! :wink:
> 
> Wouldn't it be worth £12.50 a year to that well known mugger "Les the Lag" to access personal information that might be handy for identity (or other kinds of) theft! 8O 8O
> 
> Maybe I'm being over cautious . . . . all I'm really saying is, think carefully and explore all the angles. :wink:
> 
> Dave


That's a VERY good point mate.


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## SaddleTramp

sparky20006 said:


> I'll wager that you would struggle finding anywhere in the UK more than 5 miles away from a MHF member.


Oh I don't know about that, Some members in Scotland carry guns to stop people being too close. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh Oh I could be in for a slating now,   :lol:


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## sparky20006

Everyone listen up. If I wanted to know where all the elderly / retired people in an area lived I would just go to the local library ask for the electoral register and write the adresses down of everyone called Ethel. Mavis, Bert, Hildaa etc.

it's not hard to do. Can we not all throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

If we're all that cautious about life and security what the hell are we all sleeping in vans in strange places for- often in the middle of nowhere?

If someone wanted to mug an elderly guy in his car I think hanging around a Tesco carpark would be a lot quicker!


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

There would have to be a dedicated "Help I have broken something" on the MHF's web site where somebody could post for help. It should be picked up by someone on the boards and flagged up in the new post section, where anybody who could help can get back to the member. That way everybody would be secure..

The only fly in the ointment is, the member would have to be able to log on to MHF's... I would be extremely reluctant to post any personal details on here on a list to the world that were not 100% secure, but I would be more than happy to help out in any way I could if there was a secure way round it..

It's a big conundrum!.. Or!, ever heard of the AA/RAC/Travel insurance,etc etc.. I am sure they are more geared up for this kind of thing as good as the OP's intentions are for which he has to be commended.

ray.


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## Mandale

You don't have to put personal details on there.
Just a simple list of members willing to help. 

They could put roughly where they are in the world ie Oakworth, West Yorkshire and maybe a contact number. 

I can probably list a help page on my site, it has security from BT and unlimited web space.


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## rayrecrok

Mandale said:


> You don't have to put personal details on there.
> Just a simple list of members willing to help.
> 
> They could put roughly where they are in the world ie Oakworth, West Yorkshire and maybe a contact number.
> 
> I can probably list a help page on my site, it has security from BT and unlimited web space.


And here's the rub.. Who guards the guards?..

ray.


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## Addie

Some things to consider:

1.) Many members store their MH's at home, so would not want to give anything more then town or perhaps area in terms of an address.

2.) When abroad many of us travel around. In order for it to be up to date it might require a member to continually update their position, thus requiring a smart phone or other internet access.

3.) People go on holiday to relax and I think that any request for help should come without any obligation. So knowing that 'sparky2006' is only 10 min down the road but is unwilling or perhaps unable to help might bring about unnecessary animosity between members. It would have to work that those people nearby receive a notification of the type of help required and then decide if it is appropriate to respond at which point their identity is revealed.

Personally I have thought for a while there is an opportunity to do something similar to FourSquare where you 'check in' to a place when you arrive and can see how far your 'Friends' are from you. But bare in mind that many members are anti Facebook/Twitter/Personal data so you have to respect their privacy.

However as already mentioned that largely hinges on members having Smart Phones and the appropriate data roaming package (only Vodafone or maybe Orange at the moment) to allow them to update. So perhaps that should be a poll first to assess the scope, take up and viability of such a project.

My phone updates our GPS position to the web every 5 minutes and anyone with the web address can see where we are exactly at any time, our friends, family and some people on here have it in case they find themselves nearby so its not hard to do.

It has to be said that on occasion we have needed assistance other campers, regardless of nationality, have been happy to give it.


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## cabby

A lovely idea, but it has been considered before if I remember correctly. security also killed it then.
however, I see no reason to maybe just use a mobile number/s for a certain area, no names needed.we could say list 3 numbers for east sussex.

cabby


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## brillopad

What started as a good idea, is turning out to be a big pain in the rs, every one so worried what might happen, lets all lock ourselves away and not do a thing,

Dennis


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## rayrecrok

brillopad said:


> What started as a good idea, is turning out to be a big pain in the rs, every one so worried what might happen, lets all lock ourselves away and not do a thing,
> 
> Dennis


Hmm.

Maybe, I invite you to put your name address and telephone numbers here please ...

Name.

Address inc post code.

Main phone number.

Mobile number.

E mail..

Ray.


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## erneboy

I am willing to help anyone any time and will do so if I see a request for help.

If someone posted "Help needed near xxxxxx" and I was near there I would respond on the thread and say I had sent a PM with my contact details. 

Might that be better than a database as the person needing help would know someone is in the area now and ready to help. I don't see that this would have to be local to our homes especially as so many of us travel so much of the time. I don't think home details are the best option, Alan.


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## SomersetSteve

It does sound a good idea if the security angle can be covered to suit enough people.

Living close to the M5 in Somerset though I do wonder if I might get a well above average number of calls for help? Not that I'd mind but it could be difficult to ignore someone even if you'd already helped a couple of others...


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## brillopad

Why would i need to put down my address, you can have my mobile number and when you ring i'll let you know if i can help, i live in surrey,as it says on the side, end of.

Dennis


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## rayrecrok

erneboy said:


> I am willing to help anyone any time and will do so if I see a request for help.
> 
> If someone posted "Help needed near xxxxxx" and I was near there I would respond on the thread and say I had sent a PM with my contact details.
> 
> Might that be better than a database as the person needing help would know someone is in the area now and ready to help. I don't see that this would have to be local to our homes especially as so many of us travel so much of the time. I don't think home details are the best option, Alan.


Hi.

the help part is not an issue as I am sure most folk would gladly put themselves out to help anyone on the boards.

The stumbling block is how to summon the help securely, Access to MHF's website you can shout help, but if you do not have access maybe on the road somewhere, you would need a list of folk who are willing to help and provide a certain amount of personal details for it to happen.

Which brings it back to the AA/RAC/Travel insurance etc etc who's full time job it is to sort out this type of thing...

ray.


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## erneboy

True Ray.

Either that or the means to get someone else to post for you. In the past I have asked a relative to sign into MHF as me and post a request for help finding a new gas regulator in Spain. That worked perfectly, Alan.

Edit: I should have added that my contact with my family member was all done by phone and relaying messages to and fro.


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## rayrecrok

brillopad said:


> Why would i need to put down my address, you can have my mobile number and when you ring i'll let you know if i can help, i live in surrey,as it says on the side, end of.
> 
> Dennis


Hi.

When will the Data Protection act bit pop up in this conversation we are having?. You are right we are very protective of our cloak of anonymity, right or wrong that as always is up to the individual..

I await with bated breath :lol: :lol: :lol: .

ray.


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## brillopad

Don't ask for help in east yorkshire, you won't get it, must be a northern thing, but here in the south you;ll get all the help you need.

Dennis


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## rayrecrok

brillopad said:


> Don't ask for help in east yorkshire, you won't get it, must be a northern thing, but here in the south you;ll get all the help you need.
> 
> Dennis


Hi.
Of course that is your personal view, but what is it based on.. Have you ever asked for help from any Yorkshire folk.. 
But keep in mind it does take longer to get to the poor unfortunate asking for help as we cant drive fast on the cobbled bit of the motorways up here, and we "Will" have to take the whippets out for a squirt if we are going to be away for any length of time. :wink:

Is this what you are basing it on?.

'Ear all, see all, say nowt; Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt; And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt - Do it fer thissen. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ray.


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## KeithChesterfield

I live about a mile off the M1 in Derbyshire and I'd be quite prepared to offer help and local knowledge to anyone who was in need of assistance in that area.

Just giving info of my name, location (Jct 29) and mobile number on any list wouldn't be a problem and hardly a security worry.

Go on Paul - have a word with the Mods and then get a list started.


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## torrhead

*Local Help*

Hi Folks, I can see no security issues with a general location and a mobile number being made available so long as it was accepted that help *may *not be available on the day and taken as a snub. It would be unwise to give addresses as the criminal element would/could target this list to establish if the home owner/M.H. owner was away, presenting them with an easy target. To avoid abuse of the system, would it not be possible to create a site, within MHF. allowing access only to those who participate in the scheme, not foolproof but a move in the right direction.If this or a similar scheme was up and running I would participate.


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## coppo

brillopad said:


> Don't ask for help in east yorkshire, you won't get it, must be a northern thing, but here in the south you;ll get all the help you need.
> 
> Dennis


Very discrimatory Dennis, the north/south divide quip :x

I,m happy to help anyone providing the logistics, confidentiality, security etc can de worked out/agreed upon.

Paul.


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## brillopad

See even if you ask for help you won't understand the answer, make sure you pick up after your dog, wouldn't want to need help and not get it , and then tread in something, i love this forum.

Dennis


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## vardy

I'd be surprised if anyone suggested a volunteering database without having considered that there would be the usual security issues to address in setting it up. 

I think though that there is often a very fine line between constructive advice and active discouragement. It's not compulsory just a personal choice, surely if anyone has the slightest reservation about taking part then they wouldn't offer their help or details and would ignore the thread. 

People go to other continents in war zones and risk getting their heads blown off to help others and we would not dream of interfering. So I'd like to make my own decision for a change on what I am personally prepared to do.

Having read the important and very valid concerns raised I still feel that as a mature adult it's my shout. So I'm up for it - whilst obviously watching to see how the security issues pan out.

We are doing it already too. I have read many posts where the suggestion is: 'So and so lives down the road, I'll give them a buzz and see if they can help you....'

- Helena.


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## tonyt

Try this for size.

I doubt there would be thousands of calls for help in a year - hundreds? some? a few? Whatever the number it's not going to need a call centre.

So, how about, as part of the MHF/Outdoor Bits background service, they publish here a phone number for members to call when help is needed. MHF could hold the list of volunteers, they already have some of their details and would be able to pass the call for help to a suitable volunteer(s).


That's not going to cost them much effort or dosh.


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## sebastiand

*what about this idea folks?*

An excellent idea. When I used to travel to Europe during the Scottish holidays it was a comfort to know that several friends were somewhere around and we would meet up occasionally. It would have been helpful to have access to somebody around Toulouse two weeks ago when my 2 leisure batteries packed up !

I have used a similar scheme when , while at Hertford, my Hymer's engine gave up the ghost after ingesting some petrol contamination. I put on a request for help and some members came up trumps within 10 minutes.

If security is a problem then why not a dedicated area at the top of the forum titled SOS where any member could post an urgent request for help? This wouldn't be of much help at 3 in the morning or accessing the web in France with a Kindle but the idea can be tossed around.

I live on the Black Isle not far from the C&CC Rosemarkie site and would quite happily lend a hand. My daughter lives in Toulouse and , if I was there at the time, would be quite happy to help: she has a very large garden!

How about interested members advertising their mobile numbers and area either at home or abroad with requests for help being verified by a membership number?

But a super idea and well worth pursuing.

Sebastiand


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## barryd

The security could be sorted out within the site with a bit of coding by Nuke so only paid up members can see or access it.

It isn't rocket science to click a button and based on your current location for a text to Be sent to the nearest 5 helpers. Just a bit if work for someone technical but then it's another benefit of paid up membership so worth some investment by nuke perhaps?

I would definatley respond to someone within a forty mile radius say of Barnard castle / Richmond gladly. 

I won't be able to fix your van but I will take you to the pub!


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## 747

Why not keep it simple.

If Nuke could provide a number for emergencies, a help message could be posted as a sticky until someone sees it and agrees to help.

If I was in trouble, my wife cannot use a computer but can use a mobile phone.

I am perfectly willing to help anyone in my area.

The usual rates apply. :lol:


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## sparky20006

I'm sorry guys I dont get all this 'security' talk. It's a wonder some of 'em in here ever leave the house let alone park up in the dark near the beach in a MH.

07963161303

My mobile No there -Dear God what have I done ! 8O I wait with baited breath for one of the following things to happen, 

1. I get a rude text. (I get about 20 rude jokes a week from mates anyway)
2. I get sent a porno pic (lucky me)
3. The CIA triangulate it with a NASA satellite and locate me.
4. Someone puts an IP header trace on an e-mail to the number and gets me to within 30 yards of my house.

Knock yourself out! About 200 people have it anyway.


Blimey if I was a 12 year old school girl and it was a social network site fair enough but I'm a 50 year old 18 stone 6' 4" bloke.

I don't see the probs with banging that number into a searchable database on this site (searchable by location). If you need a couple of jubillee clips from B and Q because youre getting flooded or you need to get to a chemist becuase you've lost your prescription and dying of pain and you don't want to pay a taxi £50, or stand in the pouring rain at a bus stop worried about leaving either the MH or the missus on their own and I wasn't in the middle of a brilliant film / at the cinema / at work or one too many Jack Daniel's I could pop the 2 or 3 miles and get you sorted. Just have the kettle on for when I get there. 

Now if that happened twice a year where's the issue? I live right near Woodhead Pass and have seen a couple of MHs in the laybye at the end of it and often wonder if they are having grief as it would be a God awful place to get into bother.

If I had to say 'No' to someone for one of many reasons such is life - I wouldn't feel bad. I'm not the RAC. If I helped just one MHer in the year what would it cost me? 5 quid of juice and a couple of hours of my time. For what? To possibly save someone's holiday and stop them stressing out.

It seems to be the British way to look for problems with the solution to the problem so nothing ever gets done.

Seriously mods - if you get a database set up stick my name and number in it. You've got my address as well I think.

Now that would be a community wouldn't it?

Paul.


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## coppo

sparky20006 said:


> I'm sorry guys I dont get all this 'security' talk. It's a wonder some of 'em in here ever leave the house let alone park up in the dark near the beach in a MH.
> 
> 07963161303
> 
> My mobile No there -Dear God what have I done ! 8O I wait with baited breath for one of the following things to happen,
> 
> 1. I get a rude text. (I get about 20 rude jokes a week from mates anyway)
> 2. I get sent a porno pic (lucky me)
> 3. The CIA triangulate it with a NASA satellite and locate me.
> 4. Someone puts an IP header trace on an e-mail to the number and gets me to within 30 yards of my house.
> 
> Knock yourself out! About 200 people have it anyway.
> 
> Blimey if I was a 12 year old school girl and it was a social network site fair enough but I'm a 50 year old 18 stone 6' 4" bloke.
> 
> I don't see the probs with banging that number into a searchable database on this site (searchable by location). If you need a couple of jubillee clips from B and Q because youre getting flooded or you need to get to a chemist becuase you've lost your prescription and dying of pain and you don't want to pay a taxi £50, or stand in the pouring rain at a bus stop worried about leaving either the MH or the missus on their own and I wasn't in the middle of a brilliant film / at the cinema / at work or one too many Jack Daniel's I could pop the 2 or 3 miles and get you sorted. Just have the kettle on for when I get there.
> 
> Now if that happened twice a year where's the issue? I live right near Woodhead Pass and have seen a couple of MHs in the laybye at the end of it and often wonder if they are having grief as it would be a God awful place to get into bother.
> 
> If I had to say 'No' to someone for one of many reasons such is life - I wouldn't feel bad. I'm not the RAC. If I helped just one MHer in the year what would it cost me? 5 quid of juice and a couple of hours of my time. For what? To possibly save someone's holiday and stop them stressing out.
> 
> It seems to be the British way to look for problems with the solution to the problem so nothing ever gets done.
> 
> Seriously mods - if you get a database set up stick my name and number in it. You've got my address as well I think.
> 
> Now that would be a community wouldn't it?
> 
> Paul.


Not bad Paul, could do with a few like you in the NHS to try and sort it out, sounds easy doesn't it but then when you delve deeper there's always resistance, ''Oh it can't be done'' ''I think it should be done that way'' ''No do it this way''.

Not as straightforward as it first sounds is it.


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## KeithChesterfield

Well said Paul.

As I mentioned earlier I live close to, and pass by, Jct 29 of the M1 every day.

Quite often there will be a MH parked in one of the laybys near the junction and, for all I know, they could have a mechanical or electrical problem.

Perhaps they've pulled over for a cup of tea, toilet break or even some nookie but if there is a problem when you're miles from home in an unfamiliar place any help is better than none.

Any local knowledge and advice may help them to find the quickest and easiest solution to their problem and just pointing them towards the nearest garage, repair shop or spare part dealer would at least be of some help.

Just one phone call to someone nearby may be of benefit to anyone with a motoring or physical problem and I think Pauls idea is a good example of how the MH community's members could help each other.


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## asprn

I've read all the pros and cons with interest. My take is that it's a great idea, and in fact already works over here in the US. I actively belong to a long-established RV forum which is very warm & welcoming, and which has a fantastic network all over the US & Canada. They don't have a database facility, but if a member is in difficulties - advice or practical help - they ask, and responses start literally within minutes, such is the size of the community. People then make calls to people who make calls etc., and on it goes.

Speaking with my professional hat on, it's right to ask the question about releasing personal security on the web. However, unless you have specific reasons for believing you might be targeted (I have :lol, I see no issue with putting up a contact phone number and your town & county.

What type of circumstances are we anticipating? It surely won't be a motorway breakdown, as I reckon just about everyone will have emergency roadside breakdown assistance, as has been said. The OP's example of helping someone is a great one, and I can see a member needing help when (e.g.) their partner is taken ill, and they're then stuck at the hospital, distraught, in a strange area (I don't mean Yorkshire  ) etc. and need some urgent assistance. There aren't many official agencies who have the remit to do stuff like that; perhaps the person in difficulties - a lone female would probably be more nervous through feeling vulnerable - has no cash and is afraid to take a taxi to a ) withdraw cash at an ATM, and b) take the taxi back out to the sticks where the motorhome is. Etc. etc. etc. 

Seems to me that it would be easy stuff for other people to help with that we're talking about, but vital for the person in difficulties. As for worrying about "what people would think" if you had to decline to help, how very British!!!! If I called someone for help who I knew had volunteered their number on a list, and they regretfully told me they couldn't on this occasion, I'd still be grateful to them that they volunteered in the first place. Doesn't matter what other people think of us! What matters is whether we want to make ourselves available to help other members.

And as regards a scrote spending £12.50 to sign up here in order to monitor posts with the motive of identity theft, he'd die of boredom first! :lol: There are thousands of easier ways to make illicit gains, I can assure you. (Perhaps posting your name, address and holiday dates would be inadvisable, but we're not talking about that, are we.  ). I like sparky2006's post above - for me, it's about the right approach. There does though need to be a central list of volunteer helpers showing name, Member name (very important), contact phone number, town/village and county. That's all. Data Protection won't come into it, as permission will have been given. Can't see why members (paid-up only) couldn't enter their own details direct (as opposed to lumbering the Mods with it), and the member name should automatically appear beside the personal details, so the system verifies who it was that signed up. This will prevent trolling.

My thoughts.

Dougie.


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## sparky20006

Thank God Dunkirk happened 60 years ago and not today. They were a different breed in those days.

Someone had it right earlier on when they said it would only probably be used a couple of dozen or so times annually by people. That might mean 24 to 30 people having their holiday saved. Cost? Nothing. How important might that be for someone who let their AA lapse or their breakdown insurance or left meds at home etc etc? We all do daft things like that despite the best planning in the world. 


They could then change the name of the site to Motorhomefamily and it would be the envy of all others across the UK / globe.

I'm just a believer in doing and not discussing. That's why they can't build a bl00dy bypass near me even after 30 years of talking about it.
There are times for committees and then there are times for just doing.

Some have said it's simplistic of me - most good things are until you overcomplicate them.

There might be folks on here who have a peck at you on the forums every now and again but let's be honest if they were in bother just round the corner from you you'd still nip aout and see them right. I would anyway.

Paul


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## asprn

Paul, your latest post above might have crossed with mine before it.

I support the facility, and have made a couple of suggestions regarding how it might be administrated - paid-up members only, direct-entry by each volunteer onto a published list ("database"), with the system automatically verifying the volunteer's bona-fides by displaying their forum name beside the entry.

Provided the site owner agrees to provide the facility - which will involve a little coding by him - it will work. If people have too many reservations about their personal security, they won't sign up. If people - like you - have no such reservations, they will. Those in the former category might consider not peeing on the bonfire and those in the latter might consider not judging the others. That will leave the volunteer list to succeed or fail on its own merits.



Dougie.


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## MyGalSal

Very interesting thread: it sounds like a great idea. I would be up for it. As Asprn noted, help requested might be more in the region of personal assistance that breakdown organisations do not cover - and there but for the Grace of God go I........

A thought ... would it also be possible to incorporate Europe? We, along with a lot of other folk, spend as much time in Europe as we do in the UK.

Sal


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## sparky20006

Cheers Asprn

well said in that big post of yours - i agree with 99% of it. 

I'd be no use on a motorway breakdown anyway. If it was a breakdown by the side of the road and they had forgotten to renew their assistance (chumps!) I could probably get a mate to have a look for a fraction of the cost of a callout or the £200 the AA ask for if your not a member. Imagine if you needed something as daft as a set of sockets because (often like me) you left them at home and you need to tighten something up. That little oversight could set you back a hundred quid by the time you've paid a cab and bought them and also after five hours of trying to find a local supplier and leaving the MH on the side of the road. Someone on MHF could be living half a mile away with a set in the garage. 

Sometimes the tiniest of issues give you biggest of problems and knowing that someone could possibly be there in twenty mins to gve you a lift somewhere or with something is a big load off.

Obviously we're not going to pop out with a pint of milk or jack up a MH when the axle has broken but there are a myriad of daft things which would be easy to resolve with the tiniest of effort.

I also agree with your point about having to refuse help - so be it. A packed database would (should) come up with four or five members anyway considering the amount of members and the size of this country.

I'm not on about taking long romantic walks on the beach with anyone or becoming bossom buddies just being a proper bloke and giving someone a leg up if they need it.

Paul


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> I'm not on about taking long romantic walks on the beach with anyone or becoming bossom buddies just being a proper bloke and giving someone a leg up if they need it


Not quite sure about your choice of mixed metaphors there, but I agree with you. 

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

MyGalSal said:


> Very interesting thread: it sounds like a great idea. I would be up for it. As Asprn noted, help requested might be more in the region of personal assistance that breakdown organisations do not cover - and there but for the Grace of God go I........
> 
> A thought ... would it also be possible to incorporate Europe? We, along with a lot of other folk, spend as much time in Europe as we do in the UK.
> 
> Sal


Why not Sal? Let's be honest in the age of the sat nav and mobile comms / dongles / smart phones etc it isnt exactly hard to get hold of anyone on the move these days. 
There should be NO need for ANYONE to get into real trouble nowadays considering how many thousands of us there are out there. Not if we've got a grain of decency anyway.

A couple of my mates are also MH'ers and I could (with absolute 100% certainty) say they would put their numbers in the database.

They aren't on this site but are really solid guys who help out at the drop of a hat. They wouldn't bat an eyelid especially if they new it could possibly be reciprocated one day.

Paul


----------



## Mandale

rayrecrok said:


> brillopad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't ask for help in east yorkshire, you won't get it, must be a northern thing, but here in the south you;ll get all the help you need.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> 
> 'Ear all, see all, say nowt; Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt; And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt - Do it fer thissen. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> ray.
Click to expand...

love it ! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## asprn

I'm off out shortly for some of the day, so here's my suggestion before I go. Rather than everyone keeping expressing their likes or dislikes over the actual idea ('cos that could go on for ever), how about we agree on a descriptive name for the facility, e.g. Volunteer Help List or whatever, and also on the format for the database - I suggest:-
Name
MHF member name (added automatically)
Contact tel. no.
Town/Village
County

Mods, perhaps one of you could approach DaveB and ask him if he would agree to this, and consequently code it up. It would need an appropriate place on the site, and that should also be discussed and agreed on.

So - points to agree:-
* name of facility
* information to go on
* location on site

Is this what the OP had in mind?

Dougie.


----------



## lifeson

sparky20006 said:


> I have been reading on another thread about some poor devil breaking a leg in France and enduring all sorts of problems thereafter.
> Somebody suggested creating an Emergency Area on the site for this but how about the following instead -


I may be the person you are referring to although ther have been others with similar threads.

I like the idea of a specific section for "Help required", but dont really see the need for people to log their location or log anything really. A sub forum where* the only threads allowed are emergencies away from home* and NO going off at a tangent (as most threads end up  )

Just put out a call for help stating your location, nature of the incident on MHF and see who answers. It may just be advice you need and not physical help.

If I think back to our incident, the help we needed the most was for Jill who was left on her own. Simpe things like help getting to & fro to get provisions hospital visits etc. (she doesn't drive)


----------



## sparky20006

Good plan Dougie

how about following details-

Name - *Motorhomefacts Support Network (MSN)*

Details to be included -

County
Village / Town
Mobile telephone number/s

And maybe some restrictions if you wished. For example not to be called between certain hours.

How's that for starters?

That way you could search under county or town and see any restrictions and respect the members wishes.

Paul

PS - Please dont think you would need a skill set for this - mechanics, DIY etc, sometimes just a bit of advice on the phone or a quick lift might save someones holiday. You could be in it for years and never get a shout. Alternatievly you could be in it for one week and need it to save your bacon.


----------



## sparky20006

lifeson said:


> sparky20006 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been reading on another thread about some poor devil breaking a leg in France and enduring all sorts of problems thereafter.
> Somebody suggested creating an Emergency Area on the site for this but how about the following instead -
> 
> 
> 
> I may be the person you are referring to although ther have been others with similar threads.
> 
> I like the idea of a specific section for "Help required", but dont really see the need for people to log their location or log anything really. A sub forum where* the only threads allowed are emergencies away from home* and NO going off at a tangent (as most threads end up  )
> 
> Just put out a call for help stating your location, nature of the incident on MHF and see who answers. It may just be advice you need and not physical help.
> 
> If I think back to our incident, the help we needed the most was for Jill who was left on her own. Simpe things like help getting to & fro to get provisions hospital visits etc. (she doesn't drive)
Click to expand...

Yep I think it was you lifeson. the trouble with posting for assistance is someone might not see it. I often don't come in here for 3 or 4 days at a time with work in the evening but if someone texted me - no probs.

I just don't think it's a big deal these days sending someone a quick shout on the old mobile.
It sounded like you had enough **** on your hands without worrying about the wife. Wouldn't it have been handy if someone had stuck their hand up and said don't worry mate I'll nip her over to the hospital for a couple of nights until you get sorted. It wouldn't have been a big deal to anyone really but think of the stress it would have taken out of your life?

Paul


----------



## SomersetSteve

I'm up for it, can't see any harm in subscribers having my mobile no.

Can't say I'd be much help for breakdowns but basic tools or a lift to the chemist/hospital etc. would normally be no problem - provided of course I'm not away in the mh myself!


----------



## sparky20006

Well said steve. My thoughts exactly mate.

Paul

Will the mods pick up on this do you think and maybe map out a quick plan?

Could be the start of somehting big here!  

Heyup you mods could be reading about yourself in the press (for all the right reasons of course!)


----------



## raynipper

FMCA Club (Family Motorhome Club Association) stateside have a similar system set up and list friendly 'Stoppin Spots' and 'Help Mechanic' listed in their annual members directory.

www.fmca.com

Ray.


----------



## brillopad

Thats more like it , all this faffing around thinking someones going to nick your ferret, get on with it, its a great idea.

Dennis


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> Name - *Motorhomefacts Support Network (MSN)*


MSN is universally used by two corporations, the more well-known one being Microsoft for online chat, so that might be confusing. I know I suggested coming up with a name, but really, I don't think it's important. 

An option to include available hours wouldn't do any harm.

I don't think that simply have a "Help" thread would be anything like as useful. When you need help, you need to speak to someone - not log in to a website and put up a thread which in any case, non-participating partners of members wouldn't know how to do - and printing out the list in advance of your trip (for example) would ensure that all travelling parties can dial a number & shout for help.

So that prompts another requirement Mods/Nuke - a printable-friendly format rather than just a screen dump. 

Dougie.


----------



## geordie01

I am up for it in south east northumberland.


----------



## tonyt

We would need some indication, for each signed up member, as to what distance they would be prepared to come to assist. Clearly some would/could travel further than others. In fact maybe some couldn't travel out at all but could assist from their home - Google etc.


----------



## asprn

tonyt said:


> We would need some indication, for each signed up member, as to what distance they would be prepared to come to assist. Clearly some would/could travel further than others. In fact maybe some couldn't travel out at all but could assist from their home - Google etc.


It's a good idea, but I disagree. If I put myself in the place of an upset or worried person having a crisis looking at the list - printed or online - and wondering who to call, all I'll want to do is call someone. If I put my name on the list, I won't be specifying that I'll go 20 miles and no more. I'll make the decision there & then whilst on the phone as to whether I'll go out & help. Some situations will merit a higher response from the volunteer, and it will be up to you & me whether we decide to go.

The more stuff we put on, the more complicated it will become - and the facility IMO needs to provide a simple point of contact nearby for a person with a crisis.

Dougie.


----------



## tonyt

asprn said:


> tonyt said:
> 
> 
> 
> We would need some indication, for each signed up member, as to what distance they would be prepared to come to assist. Clearly some would/could travel further than others. In fact maybe some couldn't travel out at all but could assist from their home - Google etc.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a good idea, but I disagree. If I put myself in the place of an upset or worried person having a crisis looking at the list - printed or online - and wondering who to call, all I'll want to do is call someone. If I put my name on the list, I won't be specifying that I'll go 20 miles and no more. I'll make the decision there & then whilst on the phone as to whether I'll go out & help. Some situations will merit a higher response from the volunteer, and it will be up to you & me whether we decide to go.
> 
> The more stuff we put on, the more complicated it will become - and the facility IMO needs to provide a simple point of contact nearby for a person with a crisis.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

That's sorted then - we only need one name on the list - yours - no distance too far.


----------



## asprn

tonyt said:


> That's sorted then - we only need one name on the list - yours - no distance too far.


Did I miss something like a joke, or is there something you're trying to say? :?

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

I know about MSN Dougie I design and build on line virtual education platforms as part of my job :lol: That's why I chose it as a memorable strap line.

So what do you think then mods - is it going to get pushed forward?

Yeah I agree with Dougsville about deciding the distance you will travel on the phone at the time although I think that I could never expect anyone to travel more than 5 miles to give me a holiday saving lift - bit cheeky that!

I hope there would be enough uptake by MHF members that distances greater than that are a no no anyway.

It's all aboput personal preference - nobody's got to sign up for a some horrible commitment. I know I wouldn't. My personal preferences would say -

"4 or 5 miles radius from Glossop.
Don't text me for a yorkshire pud that hasn't risen or after 10pm unless its dead serious! Otherwise, happy to help save your holiday if needed."

Paul


----------



## rayrecrok

brillopad said:


> Thats more like it , all this faffing around thinking someones going to nick your ferret, get on with it, its a great idea.
> 
> Dennis


Hi

Hey up! I resemble that remark.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

As I said in an earlier post, get any security aspects sorted then I am up for it..

One problem I have is I am out in the sticks and I am 3 miles away from a meaningful road.. But hey ho in for a pound..

ray


----------



## bognormike

Interesting Ideas guys, and thanks Sparky for sparking it off! anything would be up to Nuke; he's been busy this weekend, and I will make sure he sees this tomorrow. We'll have a look in the mods room in the next day or so as well. 

8)


----------



## waspes

Good idea put me down for it.

Peter.


----------



## JockandRita

I'd certainly be up for it, being right on the Lincs & Cambs border. :thumbleft: 
We have a long list of names and contact numbers in the MH, made up from the many fellow MH'ers we have met up with since 2005. Rita knows which folks to reliably contact on that list, in the event that I am unfit to drive, or have been carted off in an ambulance. (Yes we do have recovery insurance which includes a chauffeur service).

*Paul*, I think it is a cracking idea. 
As an example, a lone female MH'er from A.N.Other forum who is a full timer, was in our area recently, whilst having problems with her MH. As I wasn't otherwise committed , I was able to spend some time in between school bus runs, assisting her and making sure that she wasn't going to be fobbed off, or worse still, get ripped off. 
She commented on how reassuring it was just to have a friendly face and someone to talk to. I looked after her dog, whilst she had to deal with the Fiat Main agent, (her choice to use them), and go out on road tests. 
That simple thing that I did meant so much to her, whilst in strange surroundings, and not knowing what was causing her mechanical problems. 
When Fiat let her down with no results and poor excuses, I arranged for my mechanical wizard of a mate to have a look at the problem. His diagnosis was more accurate, and he arranged for tyre rotation and balancing, which did help but didn't cure the problem completely. However, it did identify a problem with the tyres. Avon, the manufacturers of the tyres are now on the case, and it's looking like a possible warranty issue.

I would have considered it to be extremely ungentlemanly of me, not to have helped out, knowing that I had the time on my hands.

I really hope that your idea takes off big time *Paul*, and that it gets the staff support that it needs. 

Good luck with it. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## SilverF1

I'm a great beliver in what goes around, comes around. I'm prepared to give help, when I can.

For a heading, I thought about the community, sharing aspect of it all.

So.... S.H.A.R.E.

*S*upplying *H*elp *A*fter *R*v *E*mergency

No doubt there will be other suggestions, but the real essential is the offer of help.


----------



## cabby

I can put my name down for this too.

cabby


----------



## Yaxley

I think that it is a good idea and that you will find most members on this website will support what is proposed.
Some will have reservations about disclosing their mobile number and you have to recognize and accept that. So they will not participate but they should still have access to the database. If they do need help someday and use the system it will be a compelling reason to fully participate. 
Instances of help being given should be aired on the website and this again will encourage others to fully participate.
Keep it simple.....no mileage or out of hours restrictions.....either the person called can help or they cannot for a good reason.
Just three bits of info........
MHF Name
Town / Area
Mobile No
I dont have a problem giving my mobile number and my location is on the site.
This initiative will demonstrate that this is a Motorhoming Community website in the true sense of the word.
Ian


----------



## dawnwynne

We're up for it too. We have no problem helping when we can, I think it's a terrific idea.


----------



## mandyandandy

We're in when it starts, half mile from A14 so could be busy   

Mandy


----------



## prudence

count us in too, we will help if we can. We are a couple of miles from junction 27 on the M6.

Prudence


----------



## erneboy

I am willing to help too but as we are virtually full time and travelling a fair bit, mostly outside the UK, it doesn't look as though I can, Alan.


----------



## andrewball1000

Excellent idea Sparky, thanks for posting it. I am certainly up for it. 

There is the Voluntary Help Projects Forum if you want to post something now or open separate threads to concentrate on different aspects while it is in the concept stage. eg Those who support, DB Content eg what is posted, How it should work eg Mechanics. This would stop detail being lost in a massive thread. 

You obviously have support and suggestions for content. Some suggestion for the Mechanics of it are:-

- I would like to take it with me as I am unlikely to have access to the internet when I am broken down. this could be a printout or digital eg PC, USB, Phone or Phone Ap.

- Easy search by area. The first two letters of the post code would give a town without being specific on address. The poster could give a radius from this.

regards Andrew

Edit
on the KISS principle you could create a spreadsheet now maintained by one member and reposted when there have been significant changes. Members can download it and take it with them. Those wishing to be included send the following to that member either by posting or PM

The data colums only needs to be 
- First two letters of postcode
- radius willing to travel
- phone number
- Name/handle

The list just needs sorting on Postcode


----------



## raynipper

Heres a link to the FMCA's version of what is being proposed.

http://www.fmca.com/join-family-mot...pin-spot-fellowship-local-service-information

Ray.


----------



## loddy

I'm in.
give us a ring when your in California

Loddy


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Great idea - and a great challenge to actually see it to fruition. 

I have no problem with making my phone number and postcode available - I agree that distance to be at the discretion of each member (ours would need to be more than a few miles, otherwise the only people we would be helping would be folk who are lost - it's a bit rural round here  ).


Regards,
John


----------



## andrewball1000

Ozzyjohn said:


> Great idea - and a great challenge to actually see it to fruition. Regards,
> John


Is there anyone who would be willing to create and maintain a simple spreadsheet along the lines given in my post above above?

Entries could be sent to them by PM. Distribution could be by re-posting on the site after any significant update.

regards Andrew


----------



## Ozzyjohn

andrewball1000 said:


> Is there anyone who would be willing to create and maintain a simple spreadsheet along the lines given in my post above above?
> 
> Entries could be sent to them by PM. Distribution could be by re-posting on the site after any significant update.
> 
> regards Andrew


Andrew,

I could do that. I suggest the radius be optional - many assists may not require any travel at all.

The data colums only needs to be 
- First two letters of postcode 
- radius willing to travel (optional)
- phone number 
- Name/handle

I'll shout if it becomes overwhelming  

Regards,
John


----------



## SomersetSteve

I think just the first 2 letters of the postcode might be too vague - BA covers Bath to Yeovil, TA Bridgwater to much of Exmoor, EX Exmouth to Ilfracombe for instance, better to include the first part eg TA6 or BS21 I would have thought.

Will it be in a subscribers only location on the forum?


----------



## andrewball1000

Ozzyjohn said:


> andrewball1000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anyone who would be willing to create and maintain a simple spreadsheet along the lines given in my post above above?
> 
> Entries could be sent to them by PM. Distribution could be by re-posting on the site after any significant update.
> 
> regards Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> I could do that. I suggest the radius be optional - many assists may not require any travel at all.
> 
> The data colums only needs to be
> - First two letters of postcode
> - radius willing to travel (optional)
> - phone number
> - Name/handle
> 
> I'll shout if it becomes overwhelming
> 
> Regards,
> John
Click to expand...

That is very good of you to offer. I agree about the radius. If it is only the town postcode limits then put zero or leave blank.

I think we need a few posts from others to agree with this approach before we proceed, especially the OP, in case they feel that their thread has been hijacked.

If they are happy then I suggest we start a new thread under Voluntary Help Projects with an appropriate title (suggestions) and explanation of how and what to send to you and how it will be distributed. Confine it to UK postcodes initially to see how it works or perhaps add other Countries in a simple format of town name in a separate section/ field. There should not be many of those.

You may get loads of entries initially but after a while I think it will drop off and updates could go out two or three time a year.

many thanks
Andrew


----------



## andrewball1000

SomersetSteve said:


> I think just the first 2 letters of the postcode might be too vague - BA covers Bath to Yeovil, TA Bridgwater to much of Exmoor, EX Exmouth to Ilfracombe for instance, better to include the first part eg TA6 or BS21 I would have thought.


You are correct. My mistake. The first three are town specific so could be better. The idea is to keep their actual location secret. Their name can be an anonymous handle to avoid identification. It is up to the person what id and whether they use mobile or landline as phone number.

edit think more about this, it should be the all the letters before the space in the code as some may be 4 to be town specific , RG10 xxx for example.


----------



## andrewball1000

Suggestions for names? 
Sparkys List


----------



## Ozzyjohn

andrewball1000 said:


> I think we need a few posts from others to agree with this approach before we proceed, especially the OP, in case they feel that their thread has been hijacked.
> If they are happy then I suggest we start a new thread under Voluntary Help Projects with an appropriate title (suggestions) and explanation of how and what to send to you and how it will be distributed. Andrew


Agreed.

I'm going to be off line for a while now, but will check back in later today to see what views are emerging. I'll also PM the OP (Sparky).

Regards,
John


----------



## nukeadmin

hi all, just caught up with all 9 pages (so far) of this thread

I agree its a good idea 

now looking at the FMCA implementation they are coupling it with their 'come visit' directory, well we also have our Home Stay directory which is exactly the same

I could build on this and have users add in their phone numbers into their forum profile (but not visible anywhere in forums etc) and then they could have their phone number shown on their home stay profile ?

I am also willing to host a phone number that could be entered into your mobiles so if you did break down we could offer assistance over the phone (google etc) and point you in the direction of the nearest willing helper, i.e. we would look at the database and see who is closest and pass on their telephone number


----------



## raynipper

Yes Nuke.
I personally don't mind my phone number being available to members. After all it's in the phone directory and website.

Ray.


----------



## andrewball1000

nukeadmin said:


> hi all, just caught up with all 9 pages (so far) of this thread
> 
> I agree its a good idea
> 
> now looking at the FMCA implementation they are coupling it with their 'come visit' directory, well we also have our Home Stay directory which is exactly the same
> 
> I could build on this and have users add in their phone numbers into their forum profile (but not visible anywhere in forums etc) and then they could have their phone number shown on their home stay profile ?
> 
> I am also willing to host a phone number that could be entered into your mobiles so if you did break down we could offer assistance over the phone (google etc) and point you in the direction of the nearest willing helper, i.e. we would look at the database and see who is closest and pass on their telephone number


sorry to be negative Nuke. I am happy to have my details described, entered into a list for the specific purpose the OP has given. I do not want to be associated with a Homestay as I have no facilities and don't want phone calls from people who mistakenly think have. I don't see the association between the two functions.

I can print out a simple list to take with me as I would not have access to a pc or the internet when broken down. Could this not be created on MHF so that subscribers can add to it and download it.

regards Andrew


----------



## sparky20006

NOW we're starting to look like a community  

Can you imagine just how popular a free co-operative service like this would be amongst motorhomers? If every time you pulled your hand brake on somewhere in the UK (and elsewhere later) you knew you were never more than 15 minutes away from someone who could pop out and give you a hand if something pretty bad occured that threatened your holiday? 

All you had to do was text one of three or four numbers? Who's gonna get the first text lol!!)



It's when a couple of thousand like minded people start meshing together in such a manner that you will see just how much 'authority' they excercise. Both in terms of getting things changed by so called authorities and purchasing power.

You mention a spreadsheet as an app for it?As much as I love spreashseets and play/and teach on them all day long wouldn't a database be better?

Just a thought. 

Paul


Keep it up guys - could get monster this one! 8)


----------



## andrewball1000

sparky20006 said:


> You mention a spreadsheet as an app for it?As much as I love spreashseets and play/and teach on them all day long wouldn't a database be better?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Paul


I agree Paul. I only suggested a spreadsheet as it is something we could do ourselves now. However, if Nuke could set the same thing up on a DB that we can update ourselves individually then it saves someone like Ozzyjon a lot of maintenance work.

I do believe we need to keep it simple so that anyone can use it easily when they need to. Just a list as described. The is a danger in over embellishing.

I cant change my username so would want to use a different id on the list. My entry line would be: something like:- 
UK, SL6, Maidenhead, 20miles, Mr X, 01628 xxxxxx

If that is sorted on Country and postcode, I can download a few sheets and take them with me in the MH. It would be simple for anyone to look up their nearest help if they needed it.

There are only 25 entries on the Homestay DB . I expect this list would run to a few pages.


----------



## cabby

I see that Nuke would willingly host a single phone number that we could all use and send either a contact number to the member needing nelp or contact the nearest to them instead.
To me this sounds like a much better idea than loads of lists and numbers to print out and loose.   

cabby


----------



## andrewball1000

cabby said:


> I see that Nuke would willingly host a single phone number that we could all use and send either a contact number to the member needing nelp or contact the nearest to them instead.
> To me this sounds like a much better idea than loads of lists and numbers to print out and loose.
> 
> cabby


Thanks Cabby, I hadn't read as far as that bit on Nukes post. Sounds good. Does that mean someone is managing a help line 24/7?


----------



## cabby

It is on the cards that Nuke would have considered it being answered 24/7 before he made the offer of hosting a helpline.Should he not be able to at any time I would imagine it being redirected to one of the MODS who had voluntered to cover.
Personally I think this is the best way, as the caller's indentity could be checked at the same time before a number was given out or a member on the list held at MHF could be contacted.

so if Nuke would like to do this then I say please start arranging a number for us.

cabby


----------



## Markt500

Sounds like this could be possible, so count me in.


----------



## asprn

andrewball1000 said:


> Is there anyone who would be willing to create and maintain a simple spreadsheet along the lines given in my post above above?


Andrew, this would take it outside the auspices of MHF and place it into the hands of one individual to maintain. I wouldn't be happy about that on the basis that it is likely to be less reliable and not apparently endorsed by the community.

Nuke, I like the sound of your suggestions. If I understand it correctly, you're saying that our personal details (eg. mobile phone nos.) would not need to be made public as they would be added to the Home Stay database, and that you would provide a 24/7 contact helpline? If that's right, then there are some things which occur to me:-

1) Not everyone will want to offer Home Stay, so that database's identity might need to be re-described (so members know that's where they go to sign up to be volunteer "helpers")

2) There would consequently need to be the capability (check boxes?) for members adding their details to that database, to specify what they were offering (i.e. Home Stay but NOT assistance/Home Stay AND assistance/NOT Home Stay but assistance etc.).

3) How are you planning to resource a 24/7 helpline? You do realise that non-members would inevitably use it sometimes, so you'd be faced with declining them service! (Or would the number not be Botted and be visible only to paid-up members?)

Thanks,

Dougie.


----------



## barryd

Not sure if this has been mentioned but what would be invaluable is assistance from either members who live abroad or in the uk who are fluent in languages such as French or german.

How many people have been stuck trying to negotiate with a French mechanic or indeed if they haven't got access to the Internet as many still don't been able to google and get telephone numbers for anything fro garages to dentists. 

So I would add if you go for a helpline number mak sure it's international and not 08.

Super ideas chaps!


----------



## sparky20006

What he said.... :lol: 

Agree a lot with Dougie there.

I envisage an online database accessed by subscription members only. (That way at least MHF gest a potential membership increase for having created and hosted the feature). The subscription element gives members a certain level of protection and stops bots accessing it.
It could also have a print feature so that members can keep a hard copy in their MH if they want. (I would). You could also have a feature where members delete their membership to the DBase if they so wish.

I wouldn't make it downloadable because if everyone downloaded it and someone didnt want to be on it anymore they might still get a call in the distant future. (You could make a note on the printout saying it is only valid for 25 weeks or so from the date of printout to avoid old 'redundant' members being in the list?)

TBH I wouldn't be messing with a 24/7 phone line Nuke. That shifts the responsiblitly from members (which is where it should be really in a community) to MHF which already has a lot on its plate. If it got busy so be it, If it died off so be it. 

The only work that should fall on MHF is just hosting the DB and I would have thought once word got out about this sort of thing that membership increases would justify the inital pain in setting it up. I know I would have joined MHF just for this feature to be brutally honest.

That's my ten pence worth for what its worth. Sometimes less is more hey?

Cheers

Paul.


----------



## tonyt

Make it an entry on the subscribers Accounts Page.

Whatever fields are finally decided upon can be accessed and amended/deleted by subscribers at will.


----------



## sparky20006

barryd said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned but what would be invaluable is assistance from either members who live abroad or in the uk who are fluent in languages such as French or german.
> 
> How many people have been stuck trying to negotiate with a French mechanic or indeed if they haven't got access to the Internet as many still don't been able to google and get telephone numbers for anything fro garages to dentists.
> 
> So I would add if you go for a helpline number mak sure it's international and not 08.
> 
> Super ideas chaps!


Aha! Now you're all getting the idea! 

Sounds like you've sussed the whole concept Barry.

Paul


----------



## sparky20006

Right here's an offer you ain't gonna get all the time!  

The missus has just seen this forum. 

She happens to be a systems support technician for Kraft Foods. she is also an Ex Systems engineer for EDS. Her databases make mine look like a ten year old has done them. (She recentyl built one for her own business which had inbuilt videos appearing as a result of queries! Smart*arse)

Here's the offer. She made the following face :roll: and asked if we wanted her to build the database for us.I don't want to big her up too much and I don't know how good everyone is on here at databases but she is much better then me and I'm no monkey.

(Buy her a box of choccies when it's done MHF :lol: )

If anyone see this before Nuke copy him in on it hey?

If any of you want to talk to her about it (especially the logical nature of it) and not me she's called Lynne. Just head the posting with her name.

Alternatively if MHF want to stay on top of it that's fine as well - I'm easy.

Cheers guys

Paul

PS Andy and Ozziejon I know you pair are structured in your thinking as is Dougie so she would probably understand your and appreciate your opinions.


----------



## asprn

*Paul*, I agree with your latest points (member-only/member can add, modify, delete their entry/print capability - formatted!/not downloadable). I also have reservations about what on the face of it is a generous offer from Nuke. It's possible it could become a bottleneck for the process despite Nuke's best efforts, and I also think it would change the basis from a peer-to-peer support network to a top-down support facility, which could actually prove restrictive.



barryd said:


> ...what would be invaluable is assistance from either members who live abroad or in the uk who are fluent in languages such as French or german.


Excellent. Another field for the database then - check box for "Linguist" and a simple free-text box to denote which one(s).



sparky20006 said:


> ...and asked if we wanted her to build the database for us


This is an issue for Nuke obviously - he may not want to bolt-on something he's not written which would be understandable, but on the other hand, it might work first-time. :lol: :lol: (sorry Dave.... couldn't resist).



sparky20006 said:


> PS Andy and Ozziejon I know you pair are structured in your thinking as is Dougie


I am?? I must look that up to see if it's a compliment or not. 8O

Dougie.


----------



## Penquin

OK I have managed to read through most of the posts on this (lengthy) thread.

I hate to pour cold water on what looks like an excellent idea but there are a few issues that need to be considered..........

My background is that my wife (a professional High Dependency Paediatric Nurse and myself (trained to Ambulance Technician level by St John Ambulance and a trainer for them on all skills) have for the last 11 years worked as volunteers for our statutory ambulance service; formerly WestCountry Ambulance Service, now South West Ambulance Service.

We held a mobile phone supplied and solely for use with SWAST and a pager, they also had our home and mobile phone numbers. The primary role of Community First Responders (CFR) which exists widely in the UK, was to respond to cat A calls - life threatening situations, when we would provide trained assistance prior to the ambulance arriving, we were assessed every 6 months on resus and use of the defibrillator and were checked on other patient related skills at the same time......

BUT what we were allowed to do was, and had to be, severely limited because of liability issues; if we did something that was outside our brief we were not covered by their insurance. My wife was NOT allowed to use her Advanced Paediatric Life Support skills - which are way beyond "first aid" and can involve a skill level on a par with a paramedic, but this could not be sanctioned.

We also had to get written proof that our vehicle insurance would cover us - although we had no blue lights or audible warning and had no exemptions for driving faster than the speed limit. Officially although we were volunteers - and actually paid our own expenses too, we were at work and therefore had to be covered for using the vehicle as a business user.

So my point is that there are a lot of liability issues that would need to be cleared, there is not the space to write them down here but if someone is offering assistance, on what basis are they doing it? If the advice/assistance proves to be incorrect, who would be held liable? Would it be MHF who hold the database or the person who asked XYZ to go and help that person......

So before anyone rushes into this there are a lot of things that need to be clarified - otherwise the risk of legal action remains high.....

Think of for instance the hurdles that have to be cleared before you can for instance work with children - CRB clearances and so on, taking up of references and the required level of supervision. These are the hurdles which have proved very difficult to clear for many voluntary aid groups, whether it be BRCS, SJA, Scouts and Guides, Church youth groups and so on - and they are well structured organisations with paid employees to keep the paperwork in order.

So, the idea is great, but the problems must be identified before it gets launched - and that may prove very difficult to overcome. Will MHF (or whoever is the overall coordinator) sort out public liability cover for those whose name is on the list? How will people seeking assistance contact people who can offer such assistance? How often will the database be revised and updated - an out of date list is as much use a cat flap on a submarine!

I am sorry if these seems very negative, I think Paul has come up with an excellent idea but there needs to be a lot of pre-launch checking....

I will quietly go and sit in the corner,   

Dave


----------



## raynipper

So this is what we have become...............????? The world is going mad.

I wonder how the Americans get over this with their litigation mentality.?

Ray.


----------



## Penquin

raynipper said:


> So this is what we have become...............????? The world is going mad.
> 
> I wonder how the Americans get over this with their litigation mentality.?
> 
> Ray.


Quite simply they don't volunteer......... 8O 

ask any medic whether they volunteer in the US, the answer is a distinct no because of the probablility of litigation following shortly after.

Dave


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Dave 
understand your hesitation .

When you say _'if someone is offering assistance, on what basis are they doing it?'_
I would simply say as a 'friend'. I would also expect MHF to distance themselves from any responsibility anyway by the use of a bog standard worded disclaimer when people register their interest.

I am regularly CRB'd in my job but wouldn't expect to need it helping out some octaganarian MH'ers :lol:

I know we live in litigous times but I struggle to see how nipping someone to the local shop as a 'friend' would either invalidate my car insurance, expose me to potential court actions or the possibility of being ivestigated for a non compliant CRB.

Nothing that any of us would do would consitute a legal identity. No monies exchange hand and no contract is implied or expressed.

Good job with trying to spot holes though - that's as it should be with all new systems.

Paul.


----------



## asprn

Penquin said:


> I hate to pour cold water on what looks like an excellent idea but there are a few issues that need to be considered..........


Dave, thanks for your considered and well-thought-through input, which we need.

I agree with some of what you raise, and disagree with some. My disagreement (surprisingly, actually) however is greater than my agreement, and that's based on what we are (hopefully) agreeing amongst ourselves regarding what we are offering each other.

Paul's idea is - I think - a peer-to-peer network NOT organised by MHF, in the same way as MHF steps back from organising rallies (or meets, I get confused :roll in order to be excused from liability. In order to circumvent an "official" facility, I cannot see there would be liability for MHF or any member, if it's done on a voluntary and altruistic basis and can be demonstrated to be so. By way of comparison, I'm thinking of school carpools, which come under social, domestic & pleasure (maybe not the last one, lol) which are demonstrably altruistic - even when money is involved e.g. donations for fuel, which it probably wouldn't be anyway in most cases with what we're thinking about.

And please let's not get sidetracked into "Has the world gone mad" which won't help us work towards a solution - it has gone mad to a degree, but ignoring legalities which we don't like, ain't smart. Working around them is.  (Not having a go at anyone, by the way...)


----------



## dw1

This seems to be moving from the mole - hill to the proverbial mountain. What is basically a simple and valuable scheme appears to be getting buried under a plethora of dubious requirements. 
For example, the need for CRB clearance: a CRB clearance is required for those who have unsupervised access to young people, and even then for those who have 'regular' (_there is a definition of 'regular' which can be obtained from Ofsted website_), contact with these young people.
I'm sure someone with a legal background could tell us the extent to which someone could be held responsible for advice which caused harm or damage, although I believe the general principle is that if the advice is offered in good faith - then caveat emptor - buyer beware. No one makes you take advice.
So let's go back to the KISS principle of keeping it simple.
I hope the scheme works out!
cheers
David


----------



## Penquin

dw1 said:


> For example, the need for CRB clearance:
> 
> So let's go back to the KISS principle of keeping it simple.
> I hope the scheme works out!
> cheers
> David


I never suggested that CRB clearance WOULD be needed - if you go back and read what I wrote you will find;



Penquin said:


> Think of for instance the hurdles that have to be cleared *before you can for instance work with children *- CRB clearances and so on, taking up of references and the required level of supervision. These are the hurdles which have proved very difficult to clear for many voluntary aid groups, whether it be BRCS, SJA, Scouts and Guides, Church youth groups and so on - and they are well structured organisations with paid employees to keep the paperwork in order.


I did NOT suggest that this scheme would need CRB clearance.

Like Dougie, I think the idea has a lot of merit and IF a system can be identified which means that such paperwork is NOT required then I'm all for it.

We cannot bury our heads in the sand though and must make sure it is thoroughly researched and properly put together, altrusitic is great - hence why I vounteered for the ambulance service, we were nominally limited to a 3 mile radius BUT when the crunch came we travelled considerably further than that a times! :lol:

Dave


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## sparky20006

Dougie please stop it now. :? 

Every time I go to say something you say it first. This is about the fourth time you've done it now.......

It's getting just plain old creepy now.

I was going to say exactly the same thing about MHF acting as a portal for advising about rallies.


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## The-Cookies

soooooooo if i go on an organized by mhf rally am i covered by its insurance if i have an accident, what responsibility do the organizers carry. ??????


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## The-Cookies

just thought id ask what about bad advice given, is that liable to be used against someone????

i,d help anyone sign me up


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## tyreman1

Just caught up with all this,great idea Paul,if we can make it work i`m up for it...Dave


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## lgbzone

Hi

I think the help network is a great idea (well done sparky) and would be very willing to participate in something, i'd like the opportunity to help others and being a systems engineer and software developer could possibly help in other aspects as well if wanted.

I think it would be wise to give plenty of thought to what is required/wanted from the system (make a list), reading the posts it's been very mixed and has fragmented into differing groups.

The central list/database seems to be the strongest, i can understand the attraction of a printed list of contacts and it makes perfect sense especially for people that are offline whilst traveling, for a list anything other than a spreadsheet would be overkill, but then there's the manual overhead of someone maintaining the information.

if the information is hosted on MHF and integrated into the site to some extent then obviously a database is the option, removing the overhead of maintaining the information to the individual users themselves is an advantage, but the design and implementation of the database would surely lay with Nuke (or whoever does the development work for MHF). if the database is used online then the interface for it will need developing, and it's the developer that will be able to ascertain the schema needed etc.

From what i can see at the moment the online database/list offers three main functions/advantages; printed list of contacts, searchable for contacts nearby in real time if online and the data is maintained/added/edited etc by the users.

there are some shortfalls/concerns that have been mentioned which are worth considering, as how good it will be is related to how many people participate, and it has been said many times that 'we' are all part of this community.

(i'm not criticising here, i'm being constructive)

1. firstly the security of the information; many people wouldn't enter their phone etc into the list/db, i know people have them in phone books etc, but not mobiles and when put into the context of being a member of a motorhome forum, it becomes a marketing departments dream, at least.

2. The restriction of the home postcode and distance prepared to travel; it would be a shame if fred was in wales with an issue and didn't phone bill because his postcode is dumfries, when in reality bill is on a campsite half a mile from fred.

3. people have mentioned feeling bad if they were called but couldn't help, i know it shouldn't be a concern but in the real world it will be for some.

there's an existing feature of the forum that could run alongside the list/db that would address many of the concerns; users can subscribe/watch, whatever you want to call it, to forums. not a thread but a sub forum such as 'motorhome chitchat' so subscribed users receive an email whenever someone posts either a new thread to that forum or a new post to an existing thread in that forum.

if a new sub forum was created, for example "SOS", if someone posted a message to that forum for example "help, UK, <postcode>, hubby in hospital" as the title and their phone number in the post; every member that watched/subscribed to that forum would get an email with these details. people at home could phone the number in the postcode is close to where they live, also members on the road themselves can respond if close etc. once the original poster has received a phone call etc they can reply to their thread stating "sorted", or something, and all watching members receive a second email stating this as these emails quote part of what's posted. the person needing help can edit their original post to remove the phone number.

in this scenario; the database is the members that have clicked the link on the bottom right hand side of the SOS forum entitled "watch this forum" (or similar), nobody has to enter personal info into a list/database which can be viewed by others, the postcode isn't a limiting factor as if you're not near you can ignore the email, but if you are close but away from home, be it in UK, spain whatever, you can respond, nobody is put in a situation where they need to refuse to help, and nobody needs to maintain anything, subscribing to the SOS forum takes care of that. for me this would be useful as i always have my iphone with me which lets me know if i get an email.

this would obviously not be perfect though, the person needing help would need internet access to post, but coupled with a print off of the contact database covers a lot of bases and would expand the amount of possible helpers by a large factor. other problems would be the possible load on the email server etc. also people should also only post an SOS thread when real help is needed, posting idle chat would vastly reduce the usefulness of the system.

maybe it's something to think about? i think it requires very little investment for possibly a large return.

btw; from my understanding of the 8 principals of data protection act, if an organisation is holding peoples information, such as MHF hosting this database, they have a responsibility to ensure that it is adequately protected, used only for it's intended purpose, is kept accurate and up to date and not transferred to places that don't uphold the principals (among other things)

Sorry for the really long post!


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## sparky20006

Cheers Dave
bit of a no-brainer really isn't it?

If I'm in South Wales near you and don't know where to buy a gas bottle on a Sunday morning I check the database text you and you give me the nod as to where to go. (Nip me there in your motor and I even buy you a beer  )It puts you out an hour and stops me and the wife freezing to death and wasting a day of the holiday. 

If you're heading across Woodhead Pass in the middle of nowhere at 9pm and realise the next garage is 20 miles away, your on empty and hadn't noticed and you start filling your breeches at the thought of running out of juice on that bleak nightmare of a road you check the databse , text me and if I'm available I nip you a gallon up there if not someone else does it. I've lost an hour of my life and saved you getting grey at the thought of kipping out there with wagons thundering past you all night.


To be honest we should all be doing it for fellow Mh'ers anyway. 

Imagine a databse with a thousand of us on it???  

Paul.


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## sparky20006

Good points igbzone

I agree that going through the server might load it. 

I also agree being a watcher of a forum and getting e-mails from it is a good way of enabling people to turn down a request without feeling bad but we just need to drill it into everybody that they MUSTN'T feel bad because circumstances dictate they can't assist someone. (I wouldn't!)

I genuinely believe that if just a tenth of those registered for this site put their details into a dbase you would get a multitude of 'hits' based upon the vast majority of popular destinations if a search was done. Within 2 miles of me I know of at least 2 other Mhers (friends) who would register. That makes 3 of us just within 1 mile of the end of Woodhead Pass which is a massively popular arterial route across country to a number of places Ive seen 3 MHs out tonight when I went to the gym earlier - and thats without all the other MHF members around here I dont even know about. 

Paul


----------



## patnles

We would be interested in signing up for this when it's sorted. It's a brilliant idea. 
Lesley


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## cabby

will this idea be ever sorted and supported,I will not be surprised if this all goes to pot.but I really do hope not as I am willingly ready to put my self up for this.
However you all seem to forget that in times of stress and when things go wrong we are stressed, it needs to be a phone contact we cannot be online always, I dont want to try and find a list when things have gone pearshaped I just want a number to call.
Dont tell me that I can print the list off and put it somewhere in the motorhome.we all misplace things.A number in your mobile is all.
There is no responsibility to consider, you get a call asking if you can help, you find out what the problem is, if you are unable to be of help then say so and the call gets passed onto the next person. we are not needing CRB or insurance cover etc.if the problem could put yu into a situation that worries you then just say no.

keep it simple please.

cabby


----------



## Yaxley

While I appreciate all that has been said about databases, emails flying around and iphones with instant email access for Gods sake lets keep our feet on the ground. Most of us have ordinary mobile phones that make calls and send texts. Some of us even have a difficulty with that. If we get into trouble it is most unlikely that we will have access to the World Wide Web and even if we did it is most unlikely that the person who could help us would be on his computer at the same time.
Keep it simple.
What is needed is a list of phone numbers in the van.
I understand that members of Alchoholics Anonymous undertake to help each other in times of need. Can you imagine a guy in a pub staring at a pint and having the shakes and trying to resist the temptation. He phones a member for support and the other guy starts to talk about insurance liability. :roll: 
I am not saying that what we are trying to achieve is straightforward. Data protection is a fact of life. So let Nuke get some professional advice and lets have a simple system.
Ian


----------



## asprn

The-Cookies said:


> just thought id ask what about bad advice given, is that liable to be used against someone???? i,d help anyone sign me up


Look at it practically. If your neighbour asked you for help or advice, under what circumstances would you consider not giving it? It would surely only be that you couldn't (i.e. don't know the answer, or can't help because of a, b or c). I've never refused to give advice if asked, if I think I can help (I have when wearing my professional cap, but that's an entirely different matter).

We're talking about fellow MHF motorhomers needing local information, or practical help as exampled previously. If I ask you for a local RV repairer and you say, "I know there's Joe Bloggs at this number", and he subsequently does a duff job on my van, are you worried that I'll sue you?

I don't think so. 

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Here's a link to a list of post codes for the UK. Took me 1 minute to find.
It would be a pain in the rear writing them into a databse (unless you could get a csv file) but once done it's done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postcode_districts_in_the_United_Kingdom

Members who wanted to participate could then simply, by entering the first 4 characters of their post code be assigned against the appropriate post code area. Is they wished they could do this for more than one post code if they lived on the edge of an area as I do.

Members who have access to a pc / iphone / smart phone could search on line in their MH or refer to a printout kept in a folder on the MH.

Personally I would have no issues with keeping a small printed booklet somewhere in the MH for this sort of peace of mind. In fact I think it would be a priority if I was heading 200 miles from home! 

Paul


----------



## asprn

lgbzone said:


> reading the posts it's been very mixed and has fragmented into differing groups


That's a bit "half-empty"! I see good, positive "half-full" discussion where everyone is being sensible and open-minded. 

Regarding your points which revolve around the IT mechanics of how it will work, it doesn't matter what platform the information is stored on - a spreadsheet is in fact a form of database anyway.

What matters most IMO is the ease of which the help is obtained by the distressed member. You yourself make the point (but move on past it without addressing it properly, I think) that the distressed member would need internet access. I imagine my wife sitting in a hospital worried to death about me having taken a heart attack, not knowing anything about the area, and needing someone there & then to help with local information/a lift back to the motorhome/etc. etc. She's not an MHF member, and even if she was, she would need a laptop or an internet-enabled phone. She would have neither in a crisis (or even not in one  ). The basis therefore of success is, I think, in the simplicity of being able to advance-print the list and have it in one's hand along with the mobile phone.

KISS is good. 

Dougie.


----------



## cabby

I am sorry sparky, but you are not taking in other points.lots of us as just mentioned have only got a mobile that does texting and phone calls. being online is not the way to go and dare I say it having a list or booklet of names or numbers with postal codes is no use either if the person has not got a clue where or what it is where he is.
but your enthusiam is wonderful.

cabby


----------



## asprn

cabby said:


> I am sorry sparky, but you are not taking in other points.lots of us as just mentioned have only got a mobile that does texting and phone calls. being online is not the way to go and dare I say it having a list or booklet of names or numbers with postal codes is no use either if the person has not got a clue where or what it is where he is.


I agree with you 97%, but provided it doesn't detract from the simplicity of the scheme, it may be that being able to search the database if you did have online access - especially if you weren't having an emergency - would have merit.

Dougie.


----------



## lgbzone

sparky20006 said:


> Here's a link to a list of post codes for the UK. Took me 1 minute to find.
> It would be a pain in the rear writing them into a databse (unless you could get a csv file) but once done it's done.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postcode_districts_in_the_United_Kingdom
> 
> Members who wanted to participate could then simply, by entering the first 4 characters of their post code be assigned against the appropriate post code area. Is they wished they could do this for more than one post code if they lived on the edge of an area as I do.
> 
> Members who have access to a pc / iphone / smart phone could search on line in their MH or refer to a printout kept in a folder on the MH.
> 
> Personally I would have no issues with keeping a small printed booklet somewhere in the MH for this sort of peace of mind. In fact I think it would be a priority if I was heading 200 miles from home!
> 
> Paul


Paul

If you want a csv file; simply go to your link, the info is in an html table, place your mouse at the top left of the table, move the mouse down and to the right (very bottom right of the info), then right click the selected table. open excel and paste the table, then choose to save as a csv file.

you'll end up with this

Postcode area,Postcode districts,Post town,Former postal county
AB,"AB10, AB11, AB12, AB15, AB16,",ABERDEEN,Aberdeenshire
,"AB21, AB22, AB23, AB24, AB25,",,
,AB99non-geo,,
AB,AB13,MILLTIMBER,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB14,PETERCULTER,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB30,LAURENCEKIRK,Kincardineshire
AB,AB31,BANCHORY,Kincardineshire
AB,AB32,WESTHILL,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB33,ALFORD,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB34,ABOYNE,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB35,BALLATER,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB36,STRATHDON,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB37,BALLINDALLOCH,Banffshire
AB,AB38,ABERLOUR,Banffshire
AB,AB39,STONEHAVEN,Kincardineshire
AB,AB41,ELLON,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB42,PETERHEAD,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB43,FRASERBURGH,Aberdeenshire
AB,AB44,MACDUFF,Banffshire

but longer

HTH


----------



## sparky20006

Cabby 

which of the following are your post codes in Eastbourne?

BN20, BN21, BN22 or BN23?

That took me 20 seconds looking down that list I gave you a link to. It wouldn't matter if it was on paper. If I was in Eastbourne I could then text you.

All you would need to do would be make sure your mobile number was registered against which code areas you were prepared to cover.

it really is that simple.  

Paul


----------



## lgbzone

asprn said:


> lgbzone said:
> 
> 
> 
> reading the posts it's been very mixed and has fragmented into differing groups
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit "half-empty"! I see good, positive "half-full" discussion where everyone is being sensible and open-minded.
> 
> Regarding your points which revolve around the IT mechanics of how it will work, it doesn't matter what platform the information is stored on - a spreadsheet is in fact a form of database anyway.
> 
> What matters most IMO is the ease of which the help is obtained by the distressed member. You yourself make the point (but move on past it without addressing it properly, I think) that the distressed member would need internet access. I imagine my wife sitting in a hospital worried to death about me having taken a heart attack, not knowing anything about the area, and needing someone there & then to help with local information/a lift back to the motorhome/etc. etc. She's not an MHF member, and even if she was, she would need a laptop or an internet-enabled phone. She would have neither in a crisis (or even not in one  ). The basis therefore of success is, I think, in the simplicity of being able to advance-print the list and have it in one's hand along with the mobile phone.
> 
> KISS is good.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

I don't think you've really understood much about my post, but i often struggle to explain myself, it seems to me that you have taken what i've said as an alternative to a list, which i clearly stated it wasn't as it should work along side the list.

My sentence that you've quoted isn't optimistic or pessimistic; initially there was lots of discussion about varied possible solutions, if you read through the beginning of the thread there was people wanting a spreadsheet of contacts, others wanting something else due to security concerns etc and these people are no longer posting, so IMO different groups have formed at an early stage and open minded discussion is fine so long as it backs one particular solution.

you say the storage of the data doesn't matter, spreadsheet or database, and you say *K*eep *I*t *S*imple *S*tupid. then it does matter, because a spreadsheet of details which can be downloaded and printed is simple, however when you talk about a database and people maintaining their own data, then it's far more complicated as an interface to the database system needs to be developed and incorporated into the website, which is no good as you want KISS. you are also ruling out anything that requires internet or email access.

The real shame though is that you have totally missed that my suggestion was to work alongside a printed list, to cover all bases. the printed list would be essential for people that don't have email or internet, but unfortunately i think you'll end up with a list of a tiny minority of members because people have concerns about making their information public.

but if you added to that a second method, what i proposed, whereby people needing help and can get access to the forum to post, and people prepared to help have to do no more than click a link (which already exists now), you could increase the amount of helpers by a huge amount. how many people are on this forum at any one time, add to that members that are not actually on the forum but have access to email, and that's not even considering that mobile email access is getting more popular all the time.

I agree that KISS is good, and it doesn't get any simpler than the minute or two to create a sub forum (i know i've done it many times) and for members that are prepared to help to click a link to subscribe to that forum. heck it even makes a list in excel a relatively complicated task.

I wasn't trying to go against you and i don't think your reply was very positive or open minded, or indeed accurate to what i originally posted.

Lee


----------



## asprn

lgbzone said:


> I don't think you've really understood much about my post


 I've re-read it and also my reply, and I believe I have. You re-state "different groups" but I was simply making the point that people having different viewpoints during a discussion, does not constitute fragmentation or factions. I still see none of that here. It may be that backing one particular solution or another doesn't happen either - usually taking the best and most workable elements out of all ideas provides the best solution. No matter.



lgbzone said:


> ...when you talk about a database and people maintaining their own data, then it's far more complicated as an interface to the database system needs to be developed and incorporated into the website, which is no good as you want KISS. you are also ruling out anything that requires internet or email access


Of course internet access is required for members to enter their data. That need not be complicated - in fact, how complicated is it to enter half-a-dozen fields of information? The interface obviously is important, but we're talking about an extremely basic flat database with not much more than names & phone numbers. FWIW, I designed & wrote both database and spreadsheet software in VB for several years, but I'm not even going to express any further opinion about what platform this should be on, as the decision will be made by Nuke, who is more than capable of coding it to fit in with the rest of his project (I'll put money on it that it will be SQL, but again - so what? It's the interface that needs to be "KISS"ed).



lgbzone said:


> The real shame though is that you have totally missed that my suggestion was to work alongside a printed list, to cover all bases


If you look back, I think I first alluded to such a printed list, and I agree it would IMO be absolutely essential. As far as the list being tiny due to members having reservations about their personal information, that's entirely a matter for each member and not something you or I can control.

Regarding opting for an online-based help facility, I won't repeat what I've already said a couple of times. I don't think though it would do any harm, so long as the basic premise of not HAVING to be online to get help wasn't prejudiced, and also so long as it didn't end up being confusing for people.



lgbzone said:


> I wasn't trying to go against you


I know.  It's called Discussion, and it's good.



lgbzone said:


> ...i don't think your reply was very positive or open minded, or indeed accurate to what i originally posted


Then it's your turn to have misunderstood.  Disagreeing with another opinion doesn't mean I'm not open to listening. I hope I've clarified what I meant.

Dougie.


----------



## JockandRita

asprn said:


> The basis therefore of success is, I think, in the simplicity of being able to advance-print the list and have it in one's hand along with the mobile phone.


Just as,


JockandRita said:


> We have a long list of names and contact numbers in the MH, made up from the many fellow MH'ers we have met up with since 2005. Rita knows which folks to reliably contact on that list, in the event that I am unfit to drive, or have been carted off in an ambulance.


It's been used several times, but fortunately not in anger, I am pleased to point out.  
Rita isn't into IT, but has a phone that makes and receives calls and texts.

Apart from the physical aspect which I am very partial to, I never knew about another reference for KISS. And now I do, I like that one too. :lol:

Cheers,

Jock.

P.S. I went to give assistance to a fellow MHF'er in the Spalding area yesterday, after receiving a phone call. That's what it's all about, isn't it?


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Ozzyjohn said:


> Great idea - and a great challenge to actually see it to fruition.


Firstly, please forgive me for quoting myself - but this was always going to be a significant challenge in a cyber environment.

I'd suggest that we resist the urge to talk about the solution (e.g. flat file, database, platform etc) at this stage and concentrate on the earlier stages of the lifecycle of the development of the idea.

1. What's the problem, who does it affect?

2. Who is our empowered decision making customer? (potentially tricky this, probably all current subscribing members ).

3. Describe the requirement for the solution (break down into things it "must" do, "should" do, and "could" do - i.e. give some sense of priority to the perceived needs of the solution.

Without a reasonably stable set of requirements, there is little chance of selecting the correct solution (and platform).

I'm working today, so may not be around to contribute much for the next few hours.

Regards,
John


----------



## barryd

The way I see it there should be two levels of support. The first resort is to go online, press the help button and recieve a list of helpers.

If you can't get online then you call or text the helpline number. 

That's it.

If this is going ahead maybe nuke should appoint a couple of people off this thread to help and just do it.


----------



## sparky20006

Had a *eure*ka moment chaps.

Click this link and you will be taken to a Google doc which can only be edited by whosoever I give the login details to.

It could also be put into a members only area on the MHF site.

Even if non members printed it off it would soon go out of date as it is dynamic.

When you open it press CTRL and F and type in Glossop and you will see my details.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqQXrRwdEL0hdE5XakU3cEd4SktwSWRTVGVFZXd3cGc

*Simples....*

Paul.


----------



## dw1

Sparky, a great first attempt, but when i typed in Glossop i got a page for Luscious Lucy dominatrix, my speciality all forms of rubberware.! Down boy down !! 

  
Only joking - looks very good !


----------



## JockandRita

sparky20006 said:


> Had a *eure*ka moment chaps.
> 
> Click this link and you will be taken to a Google doc which can only be edited by whosoever I give the login details to.
> 
> It could also be put into a members only area on the MHF site.
> 
> Even if non members printed it off it would soon go out of date as it is dynamic.
> 
> When you open it press CTRL and F and type in Glossop and you will see my details.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqQXrRwdEL0hdE5XakU3cEd4SktwSWRTVGVFZXd3cGc
> 
> *Simples....*
> 
> Paul.


Hi Paul,

My only problem with that is, as you say, it can be printed off by non members. 
As I don't carry a mobile phone, (unless we are away in the MH,) I would be using my home STD number if joining the scheme, and I certainly wouldn't want that number made available to non members, as it is ex directory for a reason.

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## dw1

As far as I understand it, the information shown would be your phone number and first component of postcode, pus a name (if you wish to add one). Therefore I don't see how anyone could make the link between postcode, std code and phone number with any particular member.
cheers
David


----------



## Alemo

Is it possible to send a text stating "Location, Problem, Mobile number" to an MHF number which will generate a HELP! post that flashes. This lets any member willing to help contact the person in trouble.
This cannot be an emergency service so a time delay shouldn't be a problem.
A data base of numbers and locations is not a lot of use as we are motorhomers and we travel around a lot.
Just a thought and no security problems.

Alec


----------



## JockandRita

Alemo said:


> Is it possible to send a text stating "Location, Problem, Mobile number" to an MHF number which will generate a HELP! post that flashes. This lets any member willing to help contact the person in trouble.
> This cannot be an emergency service so a time delay shouldn't be a problem.
> A data base of numbers and locations is not a lot of use as we are motorhomers and we travel around a lot.
> Just a thought and no security problems.
> 
> Alec


I really like that idea Alec. :thumbleft:

Thanks.

Jock.


----------



## sparky20006

Youv'e got to be careful about the sustainability of anything that is set up.

The method Ive shown here is as simple as I think I could make it without anyone having to man phones, maintain databases or code up any sql.

For example if you had just driven past my house and got into bother round the corner you could do one of 2 things -

Decide where abouts you are i.e Glossop or maybe you just remember seeing Stalybridge a few minutes ago so....

1. Log onto MHF (if you've got a smart phone that can access the Internet) click on the link that takes you to the Google doc. Press CTRL and F . Type in Glossop and there is my name and mobile number and any extra stuff I want to mention about distance I will travel or times I can respond.

or

2. If you haven't got a smart phone go to the printout in the dash board of the MH. Take 5 minutes looking for Glossop or Stalybridge. Find my number and text me.

Maybe 4 or 5 people could be responsible for inputting / changing data - it automatically saves anyway when you enter it into the document. This data could be either PM'd, e-mailed or even posted onto a specific forum.

Be honest - how hard would that be to get you out of the cr*p if you ever needed it? This is FREE and EASY :? 

Yes we do travel about a lot which is why this is universal and exactly why it is needed.


My method (if loads entered their details) means that if I ventured anywhere in the UK this weekend I've got a searchable list of MH members who have volunteered to help if I get any grief with something silly instead of venturing out there as uncertain as ever. it doesn't matter how far it is for us it is always local for someone else.

Am I missing something here? 


Paul


----------



## Zebedee

sparky20006 said:


> Youv'e got to be careful about the sustainability of anything that is set up . . . . .
> 
> . . . . . Am I missing something here?
> Paul


I'm away at the moment Paul, and have just helped two caravanners with mechanical problems on the site, and have promised to show a third how to re-tune his TV later today.

That should serve as my personal bony fidos! :lol: :lol:

I think a lot of people are missing something . . . the practicalities of making a system sustainable and reliable for 24 hours per day, 365 days per year.

A number of people have admitted that they could cope only with "_making a phone call_" to a central contact number! *Who is going to man that number??*

Someone said, "_If the first person can't help, the call gets passed on to the next nearest person on the list_" (Or words to that effect) *Who passes the call on?*

*How many of our members can easily get online when broken down in one of the many isolated places that have been quoted as examples?*

Printed lists are not much good because they are so quickly out of date, and as someone else said, no point in calling me today because I'm miles away from home, and nobody knows where I am.

I won't go on, and I am certainly not peeing on the bonfire _(as was rather unkindly hinted earlier)_ but if a scheme like this is to be worth anything at all, it has to work simply and seemlessly. It's almost worse than useless if it doesn't work, since members think they have support - until they hit a crisis and find there is none.

Forget about discussing whether or not any aspect of the master plan is a good idea. It's a great idea - and the fact that most of us wave to each other further verifies the existance of a strong community spirit. No problem there - I would be surprised if less than 95% of us would fail to help a fellow motorhomer. _(I even help tuggers!! :lol: :lol: )_

Find a way of making it work - for everybody, and especially those among us who are not very information techie or computer literate. If it works for them, it will work for everybody. :wink:

Dave


----------



## Alemo

Dave,

Totally agree with everything that you say, that is why I asked could the MHF server receive a text and flag it up on the forum automatically?

We all have mobiles and can send text it just whether Nuke can, and is willing to set it up, it may need a dedicated phone number and therefore costs are involved.

It's a great idea Paul but needs more thought.

Alec


----------



## SilverF1

Why do we need a complex solution to a simple problem?

The most straightforward solution is to have a Word or Excel file with entries for site name general location, contact number. Have this located on the MHF site and only accessible to subscribers.

If you have a worry about security or privacy, don't volunteer. If you're happy to volunteer, do.

Since it is a peer to peer service between members, there should be no insurance or litigious aspects. Those asking for help can decline the help offered if they think it may lead to a greater problem. Help is offered only on a goodwill basis after all.


----------



## tonyt

I too like the simple, KISS, approach.

How do you envisage those needing help accessing the list - on-line, hard copy?


----------



## dw1

keep it as a file on your iphone / ipad / whatever and use it should you unfortunately need it. then no worries about being off-line.

So to precis: simple file as previously demonstrated - 
stored on m'h forum web site -open to members only -
save on mobile device or print hard-copy to keep in m/h -
then use when necessary.
update every couple of months or what have you
job done !   

If you've got a secret squirrel tel number then don't put it on.
don't want anyone to know your name - use a nomme de plume
worried about bad advice - don't take it


----------



## sparky20006

Cheers Silver and DW1 

I was beginning to think I was missing something. :lol: 

That link I posted earlier to a file took me about 20 minutes to set up and is only 'editable' by whoever I give the password to.

Print it to take with you or dont if you think you're okay on the old Iphone or laptop etc..

As you said also make sure you reprint it every two to three months to make sure its up to date and pop it in the glove box.

Keep the link in a members area on MHF site.

Bobs your uncle.

Paul


----------



## tonyt

Great - let's do it


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Tony

as soon as Nuke or whoever asks me I'll send them the link and the password and they can paste it into a private members area.

Set up a forum where folks post up a message with postcodes they are happy to cover, name and mobile and start filling it in.


I bet at least a dozen people a year are glad they used it......

Welcome to the new community hey?

(Mine's a JD and coke cheers guys) :wink: 

Paul


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> Cheers Silver and DW1
> 
> I was beginning to think I was missing something. :lol:
> 
> That link I posted earlier to a file took me about 20 minutes to set up and is only 'editable' by whoever I give the password to.
> 
> Print it to take with you or dont if you think you're okay on the old Iphone or laptop etc..
> 
> As you said also make sure you reprint it every two to three months to make sure its up to date and pop it in the glove box.
> 
> Keep the link in a members area on MHF site.
> 
> Bobs your uncle.
> 
> Paul


I agree we've reached the point of needing to step back and summarise. I agree with DW1's & SliverF1's points.

Paul, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your Google spreadsheet. I use dozens of them extensively and think they're great - for anywhere-access, sharing etc. etc. It will do the job we're nearing agreement on.

The difficulty I see using it however is that someone has to own it on their Google account. That takes the ownership and security of the project away from MHF and places it elsewhere. I think that unnecessarily introduces an element of risk - both for security (it will either have to be public & therefore bottable, or available to anyone with the link) and the ownership question. If for example anything were to happen to the Google account-holder (run over by a bus, falls out with MHF & leaves etc.), then there are difficulties. It could be argued that lot of other members would have copies so the data wouldn't be lost, but the point I'm mainly making is ownership. Frankly, I can't see the need for a Google spreadsheet or indeed any external file. It's a simple matter for Nuke to construct an additional SQL table on the MHF data structure and provide a suitable interface for data entry. That would also address the security point - only paid-up members would have access to the list, whereas with (e.g.) the Google spreadsheet, the URL would have to be made available somewhere. That's riskier IMO than having a simple data entry screen within MHF.

I did also consider Google docs for a solution, but for me, it falls down on several fronts to the extent that I wouldn't be happy putting up my details onto that platform, for the reasons I hope I've made clear.

I think otherwise we may be nearing a workable solution. 

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Dougie

tbh I couldn't care who owned it. As soon as MHF have the link they could change the password if they like.  

Whoever admins it just needs to make an external backup every so often which is a ten second job just in case someone has an attack of the muppetary and deletes it.

I use google docs like this with restrcted access to share info across the web with people who work for me in my dept. It works fine mate. Its also dead easy to send/paste/insert links to it wherever you like.
It's gaining popularity really quickly these days.

With regard to security you're never going to get 100% with anything. But who really cares that much about their name and mobile number?

Once you send someone a text message it's out their anyway.

The good thing about it as well is that you dont even need the app to view it.

Paul


----------



## cabby

thank you Dougie, beat me to it AGAIN :roll: :roll: 
Sparky in answer to your question, the post codes you mentioned cover a very wide area,I could be one end and the member in trouble quite a distance away. 
The other point I would like to make is, what happens if you are away and not able to help, how often is there an alternative number.and would you have to remove your number until you return.

By the way where is Glossop. :wink: :wink: 

cabby


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Cabby

I just put those post codes up to show how easy it is easy to locate a general postcode for a geographical area on the sheet I set up.  

If you're out when someone texts/call you, you just tell 'em that.

Hopefully, there will be so many volunteers they will just text/call the next one on the list.

Glossop is halfway between Manchester and Sheffield. I'm literally 400 metres from Woodhead Pass - a really popular arterial route to the middle of nowhere for MH'ers.

Cabby I don't think we should enter into this thinking that we sit next to a phone waiting for streams of 'help me' calls.
You could be part of the scheme for years and only get one text. You might never get a text. Alternatively you might get three. 

Paul


----------



## rayrecrok

sparky20006 said:


> Hi Cabby
> 
> . Alternatively you might get three.
> 
> Paul


Ey up!..

You never said we were going to get swamped with calls 8O ..

ray.


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> tbh I couldn't care who owned it. As soon as MHF have the link they could change the password if they like.


I know you weren't putting in for the job.  The question of admin maintenance would mean - as you say - that someone would have to own it. "MHF" would therefore have to take ownership (not difficult - just a transfer) but once again - why use an external third-party application? You yourself agree that it would need to be backed up regularly, but an additional table in the MHF database would not need any further backup procedures as would be incorporated into the (presumably) daily MHF backup as a matter of course. It's adding several layers of risk.



sparky20006 said:


> I use google docs like this with restrcted access to share info across the web with people who work for me in my dept. It works fine mate.


You're preaching to the converted, Paul. I've developed a stock control system with over 100 interlinked Google spreadsheets for a national charity, and it's fabulous on many different levels. But it's owned and administrated by the charity who have no capability to add a bespoke facility to their website. MHF does have that capability and has the infrastructure already in place for backup and member-only security.



sparky20006 said:


> With regard to security you're never going to get 100% with anything. But who really cares that much about their name and mobile number?


Realistically? Lots of people, including me. I would be happy to put limited details up such as we've discussed, onto an MHF-administrated facility as I'd be satisfied that it's stored professionally and securely enough; I would not though be prepared to do so on a Google spreadsheet for the reasons already stated - and also because it's GOOGLE!! I am not a paranoid sort (quite the opposite - I'm about as pragmatic as you'll get) so my reservations about having Google store personal data are, I believe, well-founded. Apart from which - and my main reason for disagreeing - is that it's unnecessary to host the information outside MHF. It's an easy IT solution for Nuke to add an SQL table!

Ultimately, it'll be up to Nuke to agree or otherwise with that. If he doesn't agree - although I'm confident he will - then what you're suggesting is a good follow-up and will work, albeit with certain risks.

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Dougie with regard to security - aren't we all going to print it out anyway? :?


----------



## JockandRita

asprn said:


> I did also consider Google docs for a solution, but for me, it falls down on several fronts to the extent that I wouldn't be happy putting up my details onto that platform, for the reasons I hope I've made clear.
> 
> I think otherwise we may be nearing a workable solution.
> 
> Dougie.


Hallelujah.



asprn said:


> Realistically? Lots of people, including me. I would be happy to put limited details up such as we've discussed, onto an MHF-administrated facility as I'd be satisfied that it's stored professionally and securely enough; I would not though be prepared to do so on a Google spreadsheet for the reasons already stated - and also because it's GOOGLE!! I am not a paranoid sort (quite the opposite - I'm about as pragmatic as you'll get) so my reservations about having Google store personal data are, I believe, well-founded. Apart from which - and my main reason for disagreeing - is that it's unnecessary to host the information outside MHF. It's an easy IT solution for Nuke to add an SQL table!


And hallelujah again.

Thanks Dougie. That's exactly what I wanted to post, but could never do it so eloquently. :wink:

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## Ozzyjohn

All,

Sounds like real progress. Before we attempt to launch Nuke into a frenzy of coding, do we need a poll to ascertain the numbers of people who would sign up for potentially helping others? Or are we confident that this will fly without doing so?

I agree that MHF is the best custodian of the members information, and that members should be able to directly self enter and update their details.

Use the information by accessing it online (when you can) or by printing off a list as an off-line option. If you happen to have only an out of date printed copy, you can still contact someone from the list who should be able to check the current on-line list for up to date details for the area you are in. Simple. 

The question of differing sizes of geographic areas covered by postcodes troubled me slightly - but it may be as simple as participants offering support over a single code, area, or range - for example I may support one of the following:-

1. TF6 or
2. TF4 to TF8 or
3. TF* (meaning all TF postcodes)


Regards,
John


----------



## sparky20006

Hi John
agree with all of that,

I am on the cusp of 3 postcodes (ten minutes drive to the limits of each)

Paul


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> Dougie with regard to security - aren't we all going to print it out anyway? :?


I hope so (it'll be the best medium for it IMO) but having my name & number on a piece of paper inside a fellow motorhomer's van is like an Enid Blyton picnic compared with having it stored on a Google doc. There's no discernible risk in the former, but - for the reasons I've mentioned a few times - there is risk in the latter, and it's entirely avoidable.

Why do you feel less keen on MHF incorporating the data into its own (comparatively-secure and well-managed) data set? It takes out any third-party element whatsoever (i.e. Google, individual member(s) having to administrate it, the issue of how to make the URL available securely just to MHF paid-up members).

Unless you can satisfy me that a) there's a good reason not to treat the facility as an MHF add-on, and b) my concerns are out of proportion regarding an external platform, I strongly am in favour of keeping it in-house.

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Dougie

Im fine with the details being kept in house (once its printed it's out in the public domain anyway) - just thought it would be more work for Nuke and whoever had to set it up.


I must confess I wonder exactly what someone can do with my first name and mobile number. I'm pretty working astute on line and wouldn't know what to do with the name 'Dougie' and your mobile No.(You could do more damage with a gas bill).

If you got an annoying call you could just block that number anyway 

But if security is a concern and a possible hurdle then it must be addressed.  

Paul


----------



## Ozzyjohn

asprn said:


> Why do you feel less keen on MHF incorporating the data into its own (comparatively-secure and well-managed) data set?
> Dougie.


Dougie,

From my reading of Paul's post above he has already agreed with me agreeing that MHF is the best custodian of the data. :?

Or am I missing something (and there are plenty of precedents for that :wink: ).

Regards,
John

ps apologies for the clumsiness of my first paragraph above.


----------



## JockandRita

asprn said:


> Unless you can satisfy me that a) there's a good reason not to treat the facility as an MHF add-on, and b) my concerns are out of proportion regarding an external platform, I strongly am in favour of keeping it in-house.
> 
> Dougie.


Me too.

With regards to differing sizes of geographical areas, how about TF6 1, TF6 2, etc?
In our case for example, PE6 identifies the town, whereas PE6 1 identifies an area within that town, without giving away the member's exact location. 
Personally, I'd rather just stick to the first three letters/digits, if that were possible.

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## 747

Well, I was all for this scheme........

.....until I found out that the instigator drinks Jack Daniels with Coke. 8O 8O 

I'm out. Cannot trust anyone who drinks that. :?


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> Im fine with the details being kept in house (once its printed it's out in the public domain anyway)


I realise you were happy with MHF keeping the Google doc, but I was proposing having this as part of the MHF data set, rather than MHF owning external data. A printed list in an MHF member's motorhome is for me at any rate, not in the public domain.  It's effectively being passed to a friend or colleague, who I have some degree of knowledge of, and who I suppose I trust with the information even although I may not have met them.



sparky20006 said:


> - just thought it would be more work for Nuke and whoever had to set it up


Not wishing to take Nuke for granted, but we're talking less than an hour to set up the SQL table - less if he's quick. The pHp coding will take a little longer, but as I've said, it will be up to him to decide whether he's prepared to invest the time. I would, and I speak with programming experience (so do you  ).



sparky20006 said:


> I must confess I wonder exactly what someone can do with my first name and mobile number. I'm pretty working astute on line and wouldn't know what to do with the name 'Dougie' and your mobile No.(You could do more damage with a gas bill).


I suppose my "real" job showed me how easy it is to obtain information - and also how hard if basic security is in place. I'm hardly ever prepared to put up personal information about myself in view of my work, but I will put some basic stuff up if I'm convinced it's controlled and secure enough. I would be so convinced if there was a straightforward screen on the MHF website which was accessible only to paid-up members to read, use and print, as I know how MHF is put together on both these fronts (access and security). I would never however do that on a Google doc even if it was wholly controlled by Nuke. Even talking it through again clarifies it further for me that an external platform just isn't necessary.



sparky20006 said:


> If you got an annoying call you could just block that number anyway


But we want to build in prevention to that, don't we? I'm willing to bet that many members would be put right off this excellent concept if they felt they might get annoying calls - I would. Again, avoidable IMO.



sparky20006 said:


> But if security is a concern and a possible hurdle then it must be addressed.


Yep. 

Dougie.


----------



## MrsW

JockandRita said:


> asprn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you can satisfy me that a) there's a good reason not to treat the facility as an MHF add-on, and b) my concerns are out of proportion regarding an external platform, I strongly am in favour of keeping it in-house.
> 
> Dougie.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too.
> 
> With regards to differing sizes of geographical areas, how about TF6 1, TF6 2, etc?
> In our case for example, PE6 identifies the town, whereas PE6 1 identifies an area within that town, without giving away the member's exact location.
> Personally, I'd rather just stick to the first three letters/digits, if that were possible.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jock.
Click to expand...

All very well for those living in te UK, but what about those living overseas. Are we excluded? My postcode is five numbers, and then the next bit is the name of my village. How would that be stored with your suggestion?


----------



## JockandRita

MrsW said:


> All very well for those living in te UK, but what about those living overseas. Are we excluded? My postcode is five numbers, and then the next bit is the name of my village. How would that be stored with your suggestion?


Absolutely not MrsW.

My postcode suggestion was for UK contact details. It's only the UK and the Netherlands that use post codes anyway.
For folks like yourselves, the department codes would have to be used, along with the country of origin, and the international dialling code.

No exclusion was inferred nor intended, and as barryd suggested previously, we need folks in foreign parts to volunteer, so as to give valuable assistance re local topography and translations, etc. :thumbleft:

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## asprn

After an initial input into the data structure (name/phone/postcode etc.), I've kept out of that side, because it's relatively easy to agree upon once the administration and location of the facility has been agreed on.

Now that an overseas member has popped up as I hoped they would , I'll put another tuppence-worth in.  Having a semi-clever UK postal search facility isn't a bad idea, but excluding in the design overseas members, would be a bad omission. That's one of two reasons why I personally think that a semi-clever postcode search facility will be counter-productive (and I again speak as with a software developer's hat on). I've written all sorts of intelligent stuff in the past for users which I believed would be amazingly helpful, but sometime I was told to remove stuff because it was far too clever for its own good.  What I'm saying is - let's not lose sight of the distressed individual sitting in the hospital without internet, who will only want to phone someone who appears on a list to be in the same area. I know we have to make "in the same area" mean something, but town/village, county, country and postal code *with some qualifying free text if necessary* e.g. "On the Surrey/Hants border" will deal with most of that. If the individual ends up making two calls instead of one, I don't think that would be the end of the world.

So - overseas is vital. 

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Hi Mrs W

I dont know how the post code etc works in France with the 5 digit refernece but I shouldnt imagine it would take a great feat of ingenuity to emulate it for there.

The potential for this is astronomical. Imagine anybody a tad nervous venturing overseas and vice versa having access to help from a fellow MHer if someone wently ghastly wrong? (that fell out of the remit of the traditonal insurances that you can buy)

Every time we pull off the drive we all have that horrible little niggle in the back of our minds that something could possibly go wrong. For all of our planning, experience and checklists it still could. A printout with mobile numbers of hundreds, if not thousands, of like minded folk who would be prepared to help you out would be a God send.

I base it on the principle that if something went wrong for you a few hundred yards from your house it wouldn't be a major problem - but if the same happened 200 miles from home....... nightmare....

....well.....200 miles from your home is nearly always just a few hundred yards from another MH'er.

If we can't make this sort of thing happen then shame on us in this day and age hey.

Paul


----------



## Yaxley

There are no post codes (yet) in Southern Ireland.
Ian


----------



## asprn

sparky20006 said:


> .. .I shouldnt imagine it would take a great feat of ingenuity to emulate it for there


At risk of sounding like a stuck record, why worry about this? I'm normally the first person to propagate drop-lists in order to have accurate and consistent data entry, but I can't see that importing postcode lists will matter here, either UK or abroad? What is surely the basic requirement for those in need of assistance, is quickly knowing who's within reach when there's a problem. You could go the whole hog and link volunteers' locations with Google maps, but I still can't see it's necessary or even desirable here. If I'm in a pickle in (say) Lincoln, and I look at the list (by whatever means, doesn't matter which), I'll be looking for someone firstly who's in Lincolnshire, then if I see two entries in (say) Sleaford and Gainsborough, I'll be looking at a map or asking someone nearby if they're near Lincoln. If I'm not in a position to look at a map or ask someone, I'll look at postcodes, but I will still have no idea of proximity. What I'll then do is risk a phone call to one of the two volunteers, who will hopefully be able to help me with more local knowledge or personal assistance if appropriate.

I may be wrong - I don't think I am - but postcode searching in a crisis isn't where it's at, really. I'm normally not in favour of free-text data, but allowing members to say, "10 miles north-east of Lincoln" or "Surrey/Hants border near _xyz_" will be meaningful to motorhomers in distress. Working out postcodes won't.



sparky20006 said:


> Every time we pull off the drive we all have that horrible little niggle in the back of our minds that something could possibly go wrong......


OK, OK - you've sold it to me!! I'll buy it!!! 

Dougie.


----------



## SilverF1

So we're back to what I said several pages back, and which covers non-postcode areas:-

"_The most straightforward solution is to have a Word or Excel file with entries for site name general location, contact number. Have this located on the MHF site and only accessible to subscribers. _"

Separate sections in the table for each country. A print-off to take with you when you travel. Submit details by PM/email.

I'm happy to do it, if no-one else wants to do it this way and upload the revised file on a regular basis.


----------



## asprn

SilverF1 said:


> I'm happy to do it, if no-one else wants to do it this way and upload the revised file on a regular basis.


Can I please again raise the matter of ownership, and relying - as we would do with your suggestion - on "someone" uploading and revising an external file on a regular basis.

Why is this more attractive than an on-site facility whereby everyone can add their own details straight onto the MHF database? No intervention will be necessary, no reliance on "someone" having to do some administration, and no maintenance on the data which would be backed up every day along with the rest of MHF's data?

I will not be adding my details to the scheme if it's not incorporated into MHF's existing platform, because of all the reasons I've explained on a few previous posts (reliance on an external platform, reliance on individuals to maintain it, data security during upload & download, my details hosted on either a Microsoft file being sent to & fro, or an online Google document). It's all unnecessary!!

That's my case for not using an external platform. I'm open to listening to another view, but as far as I can see, no-one has made a case for it, other than "it would work". It _would_ work technically (I'm a big fan of Google docs) but it's the wrong application in this case, for the above reasons.

If anyone feels strongly that the alternative in-house solution is also wrong, lets hear it!

Dougie.


----------



## SilverF1

Dougie, you appear to be hooked on the security aspect of your details being available in a public fashion using a simple file system (screen name, mobile, general location, are minimal after all)

If your method is adopted and subscribers allowed to print off the database details of volunteers, it's no more secure, surely?

I don't really mind which system is adopted so long as the info is accessible offline. If it isn't, this current debate is completely pointless.


----------



## asprn

SilverF1 said:


> Dougie, you appear to be hooked on the security aspect of your details being available in a public fashion using a simple file system (screen name, mobile, general location, are minimal after all)


I am asking why it is considered a better option (seemingly) to introduce a base whereby the system relies on someone having to administrate it? That's very much my main question, and no-one as yet has answered it. Perhaps you would? You're misconstruing what I'm asking - it's about where the data is stored.



SilverF1 said:


> If your method is adopted and subscribers allowed to print off the database details of volunteers, it's no more secure, surely?


That point has already been covered. Of course it's more secure - having a few copies of the list on board some members' motorhomes, is just about a zero risk. MHF members are in my opinion, are as reliable as friends or colleagues. Printed copies are essential to the scheme's success, and I don't think anyone has an issue with them.



SilverF1 said:


> I don't really mind which system is adopted so long as the info is accessible offline. If it isn't, this current debate is completely pointless.


Printing the list before you travel, makes it available in your pocket or handbag. Haven't we all agreed on this?

Dougie.


----------



## 747

While you thrash out the details, hopefully with a workable scheme, I have concocted my own scheme.

I will give my forum name and password to family members. If I am in trouble, I can phone them and get them to post my problem and my position.

If it is just a mechanical breakdown etc. I will not even bother doing that. It would only be because my wife could be vulnerable.
None of you lot would turn out for me anyway. :lol:


----------



## SilverF1

Dougie, I'm a pragmatist. 

Even if the list can only be printed, people will scan said file and re-constitute it as an electronic file to store it on their phone, computer pass it round. That's what people do. A downloadable file will almost certainly be stored on many other pc's, etc. In either case the file will become widespread and the administrator's pc becomes one of those many. That is my point, but I think you knew that anyway.

Your worry is still that the administrator's computer may not be secure. With the info downloadable from MHF and passed about, it arrives in the relatively public domain anyway. I volunteered to do it, as others have done. I'm certainly happy for anyone else to do it

I understand what system integrity is about and so far as data protection goes, if people volunteer, they must accept that the minimal details will be stored solely for the purpose it is given to assist others from the forum who need it. This includes the distribution of their (minimal) details, however this is done.


Ultimately, Dougie, the decision is neither mine nor yours. It is a matter for the site admin and moderators.

I'll volunteer my help, whichever system used, as I stated at the outset and supply my details when requested.


----------



## Yaxley

I agree with Dougie. 
I think it should be administered inhouse.
Ian


----------



## asprn

SilverF1 said:


> Even if the list can only be printed, people will scan said file and re-constitute it as an electronic file to store it on their phone, computer pass it round. That's what people do. A downloadable file will almost certainly be stored on many other pc's, etc.


My final response to this. You are still missing my core issue. I fully understand that my personal details will to some extent be "held" by other MHF members - that's why they would be supplied. So that's not the issue.

The issue is that having an MHF member - whoever that may be - administrating the scheme on his or her PC, is unnecessary and undesirable. This is NOT ONLY for security issues. It introduces an unpredictable element to the equation (otherwise called "risk"). That person might become incapacitated, or deliberately become mischievous. That's what I mean by putting the facility at risk. It's just not necessary for someone - anyone - to administrate this, nor is it desirable in my opinion. And the reason for it not being necessary is that we already have a professional server hosting a professional website, which in turn has a large SQL database containing every aspect of this forum. This database in turn is backed up regularly - and automatically. So that would just leave somewhere on the MHF site for members to enter their details, rather than have someone else do it (or even do it themselves onto a Google doc). That's something Nuke will have to decide.

I can live with my basic details being in the glove box of an MHF member's motorhome, or in his wallet, or indeed on his iPhone. What I am not persuaded about one little bit, is the attraction of it being administrated externally by an MHF member when it's unnecessary and not such a reliable solution?

I won't repeat this any more, as I know it's clear. It remains to be seen what the members - and of course Nuke - feel is the best workable solution. Maybe before that point though, somebody could answer my question?

Dougie.


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## 98452

I don't get it really, We already have the best emergency system going. Its a forum. Put a call for help on it and members come running.Seen it happen time and time again.

Got to be better than a piece op paper in the van, CRB checks, google docs, databases and so on


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## 98452

duplicate post


----------



## tonyt

RR said:


> I don't get it really, We already have the best emergency system going. Its a forum. Put a call for help on it and members come running.Seen it happen time and time again.
> 
> Got to be better than a piece op paper in the van, CRB checks, google docs, databases and so on


I think one aspect has become clear over the last few days - whilst many members would be able to access MHF whilst on the road, many would not and would have only a bog standard cell phone or maybe only a call box so, to be of any value to all members, it has to be available in an off-line format of some sort.


----------



## motormouth

I haven't read every post on this so forgive me if this has been discussed.
I would think that a lot of help would be needed whilst on holiday abroad so how would they know if anyone was in the area that could assist??


----------



## SilverF1

asprn said:


> The issue is that having an MHF member - whoever that may be - administrating the scheme on his or her PC, is unnecessary and undesirable. This is NOT ONLY for security issues. It introduces an unpredictable element to the equation (otherwise called "risk"). That person might become incapacitated, or deliberately become mischievous.





asprn said:


> I can live with my basic details being in the glove box of an MHF member's motorhome, or in his wallet, or indeed on his iPhone. What I am not persuaded about one little bit, is the attraction of it being administrated externally by an MHF member when it's unnecessary and not such a reliable solution?
> 
> Dougie.


You're right, Dougie, I hadn't realised that by volunteering to assist with administering a help list, that I would be seen as unreliable a risk, possibly mischievous, unpredictable or even become incapacitated. I hadn't realised I was so potentially untrustwothy. Thank you for pointing it out so clearly.

For the record, I am trustworthy, reliable have no criminal record expired or otherwise.


----------



## asprn

SilverF1 said:


> You're right, Dougie, I hadn't realised that by volunteering to assist with administering a help list, that I would be seen as unreliable a risk, possibly mischievous, unpredictable or even become incapacitated


Why you have chosen to take my comments personally, I can't fathom - you're the first on this so-far excellent thread to have taken anything personally, and it's gobsmacking. There's been no decision yet on anyone doing anything! I was speaking entirely generally on the basis of what could happen. You have though inadvertently illustrated my point.

Paul, I'm stepping out the discussion now, as I'm happy I can't put my view over any more clearly. Any further involvement pre-decision may be unproductive.

Dougie.


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Hang in there Dougie - I certainly appreciate your input, and I'm sure that i am not alone.

OK, summary time.

What do we want?

Potential helper details to include (at least) contact info and information about area of coverage - must have.

Only paid up subscribers can input and access the data on-line - must have.

Include areas outside mainland UK - must have.

Information held on MHF where it can be accessed on line - must have.

Information held on MHF in a format that allows it to be printed out - must have.

Information held in a format that allows it to be downloaded to mobile devices - could have (or are there undesirable security concerns with this aspect?).

Data to be gathered by individuals entering their own details directly into an MHF supplied on-line data capture service (i.e there will be a screen within this site for each of us to enter the details we want to be visible to others) - should have*.

* I know Dougie sees this as a "must have" but others appear less concerned. As someone who initially offered to maintain an off line list, I must say at this point that I am persuaded by Dougie's argument. I believe inputting the data to MHF directly is a better solution (though I would still participate in an off line data capture supported system - just my choice). 


Question:- Is Nuke prepared to host this and provide the necessary input and display screens? Pretty please?

Have I missed anything significant?


Regards,
John


----------



## Yaxley

Ozzyjohn. I think that you put it very succinctly.
In other words I agree with your summing up.
Ian


----------



## andrewball1000

Excellent summary John, thanks. I agree.

Some of us who have their real name as their "user name" (and cant change it) may not wish to publicly associate this with their Town. (too close to home). Perhaps their user name should be kept invisible and instead give them an option to enter an id which may be different. This minor detail may be covered by what you have said and I don't want to start any more discussion by it.


Ozzyjohn said:


> ....(i.e there will be a screen within this site for each of us to enter the details we want to be visible to others) - should have*.


----------



## sparky20006

Got it John

also a must have (I think) is a details column where folk can specify days/times/circumstances when they cannot offer help.

For instance Monday to Friday after 10pm for me is a no no as I commute really early. Weekends - any time you likeas long as I aint had a bevvy . I could also specify areas that would not appear in some postcodes as I live on the edge of nowhere on one side of me and the edge of a city on the other.

This is such a simple concept why aren't we entering details already? :? 

I would have thought coming into winter is when some poor s*ds might need it more than other times. (Frozen pipes and things not working, running out of gas when its freezing at night....... )

Paul


----------



## asprn

Ozzyjohn said:


> Hang in there Dougie


I'm here, sitting comfortably & not hanging. 

Great summary.

Dougie.


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## Ozzyjohn

OK, (revised) summary time. 

What do we want? 

Potential helper details to include (at least): 
contact info (real or disguised - each member can decide for themselves), 
information about area of coverage, 
times of availability (and/or unavailability), - must have. 

Only paid up subscribers can input and access the data on-line - must have. 

Include areas outside mainland UK - must have. 

Information held on MHF where it can be accessed on line - must have. 

Information held on MHF in a format that allows it to be printed out - must have. 

Information held in a format that allows it to be downloaded to mobile devices - could have (or are there undesirable security concerns with this aspect?). 

Data to be gathered by individuals entering their own details directly into an MHF supplied on-line data capture service (i.e there will be a screen within this site for each of us to enter the details we want to be visible to others) - should have*. 

* I know Dougie sees this as a "must have" but others appear less concerned. As someone who initially offered to maintain an off line list, I must say at this point that I am persuaded by Dougie's argument. I believe inputting the data to MHF directly is a better solution (though I would still participate in an off line data capture supported system - just my choice). 


Question:- Is Nuke prepared to host this and provide the necessary input and display screens? Pretty please? With extra cheese pretty please?

Have I missed anything significant? 


Regards, 
John


----------



## SilverF1

I don't want my personal feelings to detract from this project in the slightest.

What I do want is for the project to make progress and, as importantly, more people to volunteer their help. There have been many views of this thread, 6000+ currently. 

Paul's (Sparky2006) idea is worthy of greater support.


----------



## dw1

Again we seem to be over complicating a simple idea! So this is my proposal;
we send our details to Sparky - he ( or his wife) enters it on an excel data base.

details needed; I'll use my own case an an exemplar:

name:/David or Pseudonym

area: TA8 Burnham on sea - 10 mile radius

tel number: 01278 ******

notes: not after 10pm please. I'm no mechanic but I'll try and help if I can

We receive the excel spreadsheet from Sparky, and we put a hard copy in the m/h and an electronic copy on our pc / phone / ipad.

In 6 months time Sparky or wife, sends us a group email saying: " are your details correct/ are you happy to carry on?"

If it's worked, we carry on, If it hasn't we abandon or reconstitute!

As that awful meerkat says: "Simples"


----------



## tonyt

There looks like just one aspect that is causing disagreement and that's:

"Who is to be the keeper of the list?"

There are members that would only participate if the list was held in MHF and there are others that would be happy for an MHF member to collate and hold the list.

Is there a compromise here? If that MHF member were a Moderator would that be acceptable to both sides?


----------



## dw1

Surely we would all 'hold' the list in that we would all have the database. 

The only info' that the database holder would have that others wouldn't, would be the email address of each member. 
I'm not sure that this would be of sufficient value to tempt anyone from the straight and narrow. Based upon the old adage that one volunteer is worth ten pressed men, I'd be happy for sparky, ( as the volunteer) to have my email address.

My guess is that to actually get anything in place, we shall end up with two factions: one who are happy to submit their details, and another who aren't. I would suggest that those who are happy to submit , assuming Sparky would be so good as to hold to his/her offer, do so and get a list up and running. 

Those who would prefer a more cautious approach can then formulate a system which is appropriate for them, and who knows, some time in the future we could perhaps amalgamate the two.

So Sparky If you are happy to create and maintain the database, then my information is ready and waiting to be sent.
I hope these thoughts help in the debate.
cheers
David


----------



## tonyt

dw1 said:


> Surely we would all 'hold' the list in that we would all have the database.
> 
> The only info' that the database holder would have that others wouldn't, would be the email address of each member.
> I'm not sure that this would be of sufficient value to tempt anyone from the straight and narrow. Based upon the old adage that one volunteer is worth ten pressed men, I'd be happy for sparky, ( as the volunteer) to have my email address.
> 
> My guess is that to actually get anything in place, we shall end up with two factions: one who are happy to submit their details, and another who aren't. I would suggest that those who are happy to submit , assuming Sparky would be so good as to hold to his/her offer, do so and get a list up and running.
> 
> Those who would prefer a more cautious approach can then formulate a system which is appropriate for them, and who knows, some time in the future we could perhaps amalgamate the two.
> 
> So Sparky If you are happy to create and maintain the database, then my information is ready and waiting to be sent.
> I hope these thoughts help in the debate.
> cheers
> David


Sounds OK for me - I'm in.


----------



## KeithChesterfield

If I'd taken as long as you lot to make up my mind what to do there wouldn't be any 'French Vets Lists' available - I'd still be going through the 'committee' stage.

For heavens sake - somebody grab the nettle and get on with it!


----------



## Yaxley

Sparky
Dont agree with your last post.
KISS
Keep it simple s.......
There are so many reasons one could not go to the member in trouble.....several glasses of wine......away in France.....babysitting..... etc etc. However by answering the phone you could look up a local number in the directory......recommend someone who could help....put a plea on the MHF website....etc etc.
So ....no restrictions/complications/conditions......please.
If you turn off your mobile when you go to bed .....fine.
I fully support the concept and the original summary.
Well done Sparky in getting the ball rolling & getting us all involved.
Ian


----------



## camper69

Sorry I don't understand why you just don't ring the breakdown service that we all pay for. They are always on call and aren't restricted by the amount of alcohol they have consumed.

Derek


----------



## KeithChesterfield

Is this the type of list you'd like?


----------



## asprn

camper69 said:


> Sorry I don't understand why you just don't ring the breakdown service that we all pay for


Perhaps take a read through from the beginning? The point should then not be missed on you.

Dougie.


----------



## sparky20006

Yaxley said:


> Sparky
> Dont agree with your last post.
> KISS
> Keep it simple s.......
> There are so many reasons one could not go to the member in trouble.....several glasses of wine......away in France.....babysitting..... etc etc. However by answering the phone you could look up a local number in the directory......recommend someone who could help....put a plea on the MHF website....etc etc.
> So ....no restrictions/complications/conditions......please.
> If you turn off your mobile when you go to bed .....fine.
> I fully support the concept and the original summary.
> Well done Sparky in getting the ball rolling & getting us all involved.
> Ian


Hi Ian

the reason I suggested this column be put in is that when we're all away in the MH we tend to keep odd hours. If I desperately needed a bit of help at midnight I would just be thinking *'Oh christ I couldn't possibly bell/text anyone at this time of night*' and probably wouldn't call or text them as result but if there were a column with details that specified don't ring/text after ten/eleven p.m or maybe said *at the weekend not bothered about time *it would put my 
mind at rest either way.

If I was retired then I couldnt give a t*ss either way 8O but having to commute at 7 am I wouldn't want folks a mile or two down the road texting me at silly o clock in the week because they didn't have a trolley jack or needed a tube of siicon and some pva tape to seal something. At the weekend or at a reasonable time in the week - no probs.

You mention being away on hoiliday etc etc - in that case I would simply reply with brief details , say I couldnt help and hopefully there would be another couple of numbers they could call/text.

(I bet I could have filled a document of details by now :wink: )

All the best

Paul


----------



## KeithChesterfield

Revised attempt at a downloadable list.

County - in alphabetical order.
Forum Name
Contact name
Tel number
Area you are available
Comments

Any thoughts on the format of the list appreciated.

Or is this a no-no?


----------



## sparky20006

Yeah that looks good to me Keith. how about a postcode in there as well? It makes it easy for the member to decide what area they want to cover. for example I'm in the middle of three postcodes and if people are using sat navs doesn't it give the postcode? (To be honest Ive never checked mine but I bet it will)

Cheers

Paul


----------



## tonyt

KeithChesterfield said:


> Revised attempt at a downloadable list.
> 
> County - in alphabetical order.
> Forum Name
> Contact name
> Tel number
> Area you are available
> Comments
> 
> Any thoughts on the format of the list appreciated.
> 
> Or is this a no-no?


That looks fine to me.

I'm a little lost as to where we are on this issue.

Are we looking at:

1. A member collecting/collating and uploading to MHF for members to access/download.

2. Members entering data directly into MHF.

Both would require MHF Management approval and technical support and I don't recall anyone yet confirming that?


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Morning all,

Keith,
Suggest adding an extra field to identify "country" - if (sorry, when) this takes off we will collectively be covering Europe and beyond. 
Might want to make the headings more generic and show examples (even what to enter in a simple list will be misinterpreted by someone - and it isn't their fault, it is just that we are all different).

All,
Maybe compiling a list "off site" from MHF in the first instance is a way of getting the ball rolling. By doing it this way - assuming we reach a reasonable number of participants - we will demonstrate a real appetite for the scheme. This in turn will strengthen the case to Nuke to invest in providing on "on site" version (which will allow more people to join because it will satisfy a broader spectrum of security concerns). As has already been said by ??? (sorry it was pages ago and I cannot recall who to credit) we can migrate the data from an off site source to an on site one when the latter arrives. 


Regards,
John


----------



## KeithChesterfield

I think we're at the point where many Members have put their views and opinions but don't want the hassle of actually doing anything about it.

As I mentioned earlier - someone, preferably a Mod, needs to grasp the nettle and volunteer (or recommend a reliable Member) to form a list and get on with it.

If Members like the idea they can put forward their details and if they don't like it they can abstain.

Otherwise this good idea will go round in circles until it disappears where the sun doesn't shine! 

I'm off to walk the dog.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## sparky20006

KeithChesterfield said:


> I think we're at the point where many Members have put their views and opinions but don't want the hassle of actually doing anything about it.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier - someone, preferably a Mod, needs to grasp the nettle and volunteer (or recommend a reliable Member) to form a list and get on with it.
> 
> If Members like the idea they can put forward their details and if they don't like it they can abstain.
> 
> Otherwise this good idea will go round in circles until it disappears where the sun doesn't shine!
> 
> I'm off to walk the dog.
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Hi Keith

as you say it just seems to keep going around and around :wink:

This is a great site and love how it brings us all together but maybe they're a bit busy at the moment to organise and admin it. (I appreciate a site this size must be a nightmare to keep on top of anyway) So here's a start. Ive set up a Google Account, Google Document and sorted a sheet out.

I 'll start it off and later on we can sort out 'security' issues . (As i said before I really have no problem with anyone having my number and first name, I posted it up on here 5 days ago and it still works! :lol:

Keith (or any other MHF guys) if you send a mail to [email protected] with your first name (or nickname), mobile number, basic details and the postcode/postcodes you can be 'alloted' to then I will send you back a pdf document with you as part of it. I've already put myself in. Whenever you want to be removed just send another e-mail saying so and you will be deleted.

I can't see the issue with who 'owns' it to be honest. It isn't worth anything and the data in it is such low level in terms of sensitivity as to be next to useless to anyone outside our little group.

Nuke - hopefully not treading on your toes mate - this is a voluntary little non profit making affair. Let me know if there's a problem anyway.

Cheers

Paul


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

Definitely a great idea!
With 202 replies from less than 50 members, it's going to require some serious publicising to draw on the thousands of members out there?
To be clear, we're not talking about giving help on Motorways are we? That would be illegal and, of course, dangerous!
And we should not be talking about giving 'professional assistance' (e.g. medical, which was mentioned earlier in this thread).
Everyone should have the necessary breakdown and travel insurance to call on, so we're talking about more mundane assistance, but assistance that could make a huge difference to the person(s) in need. Basically the sorts of things that Paul referred to in his original post.
Given the above, I'm in!
Oh, almost forgot! When I tried to view the Google doc. on page 13 of this thread, I used my Gmail login, but it wouldn't let me access the document without permission. I wouldn't want to create a separate Google account for this as they have such an appalling reputation for distributing/selling details to spammers etc..


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## sparky20006

Dont worry Whitecheyenne

I'll just e-mail the pdf back to who ever wants to be part of the scheme.

As for rescue services  

You got it right we can just give someone a leg up to the local shops, chemist or hospital tell them where to buy gas (or run them there if youre feeling really good), lend them a jack a spanner or some waterproofing stuf etc etc etc f.... there's a bazillion little things which (if they go missing or wrong) can knacker a holiday up but to a local its nothing.

Paul


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## sparky20006

Sorry about the link whitecheyenne - I was experimenting with various access rights but Ive put it back now. Some folks are already in there.

If you click on the link on page 13 you will see it now mate.

cheers

Paul

PS - to put the whole 'assistance' element into perspective... imagine if you got into a spot of bother (nothing too drastic requiring the AA, an ambulance or a tow truck etc!) and it happened maybe 2 miles from one of your friend's houses. You would have no hesitation in ringing them would you? 

We should all be able to do that with any of us that agree to put our name to it. Its not contractual just a voluntary list for like minded people. 

Paul


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

Thanks Paul
I sent a message with my details............then re-read your bit about emailing the pdf!! Oh well, you have the info now.
John


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## sparky20006

Got you in there John. Cheers mate.

Come on everyone.

It's nothing to do with being a mechanic (we all have rescue membership for that) it's about being a proper little community. The vast majorty of us will be a part of the network for years and never get a text or call.

If your wife ever needs to get to a local chemist on a Saturday, the dog to a vet, your gas has run out while your wild camping or you need to find a MH dealer to get an important part and you have no internet, no map, no local knowledge and it's hissing down - you'll be glad others entered their details.

Go to page 13 of this discussion and view it on the link. (Even if all you could offer was local knowledge it might help someone)

The email address to get involved is :

[email protected]

If anyone in France or Spain etc starts sending me details I'll create a seperate table at the bottom. (It will have to be on area as they don't have postcodes?)

Paul.


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## sparky20006

First day and seven of us covering about 15 post codes.

About another 400 needed ! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Get your postcodes and mobile numbers / landline numbers emailed in.


Shame on us all if this doesn't take off. :wink: 

Paul


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## Ozzyjohn

sparky20006 said:


> Had a *eure*ka moment chaps.
> 
> Click this link and you will be taken to a Google doc which can only be edited by whosoever I give the login details to.
> 
> It could also be put into a members only area on the MHF site.
> 
> Even if non members printed it off it would soon go out of date as it is dynamic.
> 
> When you open it press CTRL and F and type in Glossop and you will see my details.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqQXrRwdEL0hdE5XakU3cEd4SktwSWRTVGVFZXd3cGc
> 
> *Simples....*
> 
> Paul.


Paul,

Had you considered adding the link to your signature - then it will be readily available each time you post. Just a suggestion .

Keep at it!

Regards,
John


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## Zebedee

Ozzyjohn said:


> Paul,
> Had you considered adding the link to your signature - then it will be readily available each time you post. Just a suggestion .
> John


And a very good one in my opinion John. :wink:

*Paul *- No reason why you shouldn't include brief instructions for the convenience of those coming to it in the future.

Don't make it too long though, I guess three or four lines would be enough. 

Dave


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## sparky20006

Will do Dave and John

Good idea lads.  



Paul


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## sparky20006

Testing your idea now...hows this?


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## Zebedee

PM on the way Paul.


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## WhiteCheyenneMan

Can I suggest that you start a new thread Paul, referring back to this one for the history, but with a "reel 'em in" Subject title, to attract the attention of all members?
Something like:
"Do you want to be part of the Motorhome Network?" or
"The Motorhome Network is here to assist you"
I'm sure that someone can come up with something a bit more 'sexy'?
John


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## sparky20006

Bump

To view the Motorhome Network Support document >> Click Here <<

If you would like to join the scheme, please e-mail your details here > > > [email protected]


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## Zimee

I think this is a great idea. I have put on the LDV face book site that I dont mind if some people are looking for free overnight camping at my place. I live just outside Ammanford in South Wales and have space at the back of the house to stand at least 2 mobile homes. We are right on the edge of the Brekons so if you want to make this a free base for a few days whilst you check it out, thats cool by me. I am also here if like was said you need a hand, I am just a call away. Where do we register numbers etc?

I too was really hoping I could find someone who has self built their MH to come and give me a hand building mine as I dont have a clue. Free accomadation water etc.

Zim :wink:


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## Zebedee

Zimee said:


> Where do we register numbers etc?


Errrmmmmmm - you could try reading the post immediately before yours!! :roll: :lol:

Dave 8O


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## Zimee

Yea Yea, just did and sent details off, I am a bit slow on the take their... Thanks Zebedee :?


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## vonny

*helping each other*

think its a great idea especialy when abroard we were stuck for 5 days in a bluddy carpark in italy nightmare and just to speak to another british m/h'er woul have been a godsend so i think its a great idea to help each other.
well done hope its a lift off xx


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## cabby

not sure what happened to this, did it just die a death through lack of interest.

cabby


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