# Flat engine battery



## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi guys still learning
We have a Hobby 750 year 2000 Fiat Ducatto

Its fitted with 3 110 leaisure batteries. all new last year and of course the engine battery that came with the vehicle not sure how old it is. It also has a split charger from the alternator. It has been parked 4 weeks on the drive hooked up to the 240v from the house with the on board charger switched on. It also has an 80w solar panel.

I usually start it every couple of weeks if we dont get away.

However for various reasons it's not been run for 4 weeks.
I tried to start it yesterday to take it in to get some new tyres.
The engine battery was flat as a pancake.
the leisure batteries are maintaining charge.

I charged it for 4 hours with a car battery charger and it started fine.

My questions are;
1) Should the on board charger (located under the drivers seat) charge the engine battery as well as the leaisure ones.

2) do you think the charger under the seat has too much to do trying to charge 4 batteries.

3) Any other ideas

Thanks again 

Kev


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Whether it is hooked up to the car battery from the on-board charger is possible, but I'd think not if the leisure batteries are charged and the vehicle battery has gone flat.

If the on-board charger has kept 3 X 110AH batteries up OK, the extra one shouldn't make a big difference, but without knowing what output it has it is difficult to give a firm answer.

With the vehicle engine not running and the on-board charger plugged in, see what the battery voltages are across the two systems.

Peter


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good morning Kev, 

Its likely that the engine battery may not charge from the onboard charger looking after your leisure batteries; you can check by using a multimeter to see if the terminal voltage increases when you are plugged in. Some charging systems may prioritise the leisure batteries over the starter battery and charge the latter last, but given the time scale I wouldn't have thought this is the case. If however the charger is able to charge the starter battery, then check all your fuses just in case.

How long do you run it for when you start it every couple of weeks? Its a high draw to turn the engine over, and the engine will need to be run for quite a while, or run at a load to compensate for the drop needed to turn her over and get the battery back up.

Leave your battery charger on the starter battery for a good 24 to 48 hours to ensure the battery is fully charged, as 4 hours would not have been enough to get it back up to full.

You could consider purchasing a Battery Master as this will allow your starter battery to keep topped up from the solar panel.

Bear in mind also that cold weather doesn't help batteries so could accentuate any problems.

Regards,
Chris


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

A solar panel and a Schaudt LR1218 will ensure that you can leave your van for long periods (even in Winter).

A & N Caravan Services are cheapest for the LR 1218 and have full fitting instructions on their website. You will have an EBL99 fitted like my van. I fitted the 1218 myself, it is quite easy.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

You could also speak to your local Hymer, Dethleffs dealer or a delear for any other manufacturer such as Adria, Burstner etc which installs Schaudt Elektroblocks to purchase a Schaudt LRS1218.

The current suggested selling prices for the parts systems I can access are;

Dethleffs p/n 826821 £56.42+ VAT
Hymer p/n 1282541 £58.53+ VAT 

The Hymer part number description remarks that it is the 1214 which was discontinued a long time ago, so I expect this is actually the 1218 but the part number was not updated. I'll update with a further post when I have confirmation from Hymer.

Of course these are only the suggested prices based on todays exchange rate, so they are subject to change, and a dealer is able to sell them that whatever price they feel is suitable.

Regards,
Chris


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

It is the 1218
works as if on hook up

joe


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi.

Fit up a link wire between leisure battrries and srarter battery. Use 3 core 1.5mm round cable. You only need to connect pos on starter battery to pod on leisure battery. Twist all three cores of cable togeather and connect up via a 10amp fuse.

Steve. & ann. Teensvan.


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

teensvan said:


> Hi.
> 
> Fit up a link wire between leisure battrries and srarter battery. Use 3 core 1.5mm round cable. You only need to connect pos on starter battery to pod on leisure battery. Twist all three cores of cable togeather and connect up via a 10amp fuse.
> 
> Steve. & ann. Teensvan.


This would work to give you a temporary work-around to overcome the flat vehicle battery - but, you should *not* plan to use this as a permanent solution to charge the vehicle battery while on hook up.

The vehicle battery will most likely be a different capacity to the 3x leisure batteries so you will not get optimum charging of all 4 batteries.

Also, if you leave this link connected when you are parked up off hookup, as you will be using (discharging) your leisure batteries, you will also discharge your vehicle battery and could end up with no energy to turn the starter.

Admittedly you would last a long time with 3x 110 + whatever the vehicle battery is rated at but still not a good idea to make this a permanent connection.

Apologies if that's obvious

Cheers

Dave


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

premiermotorhomes said:


> You could also speak to your local Hymer, Dethleffs dealer or a delear for any other manufacturer such as Adria, Burstner etc which installs Schaudt Elektroblocks to purchase a Schaudt LRS1218.
> 
> The current suggested selling prices for the parts systems I can access are;
> 
> ...


I can confirm having recieved a response from Hymer, that the part number above is the LRS1218.

Regards,
Chris


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

while mine is on hookup at home maintaining the 2 leisure batteries, I also have a battery charger plugged into a 13a socket in the MH that then charges the engine battery. Job done.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mine is exactly the same as yours Kev.
3 x 110 leisure batts and an old engine batt.

The onboard charger keeps the 3 leisure batts topped up as can be seen by the gages above the door.
But a previous owner had fitted a very small Ctec charger also under the R/H passenger seat alongside the house charger to keep the engine batt topped up.

Every time I pop into the van I press the 'test' switch on the gage panel just to note the two voltages of engine and leisure.

Ray.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Ray is in an excellent position with a Ctek charger to look after his starter battery.

These are excpetionally good products at what they do, and you'd need to look at the MXS3.6, MXS5.0, MXS7.0, MXS10 OR MXS25, which aside from being more powerful as you go up the ladder also increases the functions such as more stages for charging and recon modes.

We use a MXS7.0 to charge the batteries we hold in stock for sale, and a damn good job it does.

Regards,
Chris


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Sprinta said:


> while mine is on hookup at home maintaining the 2 leisure batteries, I also have a battery charger plugged into a 13a socket in the MH that then charges the engine battery. Job done.


I do the same in our VW Camper, through the cig. lighter socket, which is permanently live.

The Eura has it all integrated 

Cheers

Dave

Edit - forgot to include the quote


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

HarleyDave.

I only gave this advice as a tempory fix and would assume the user would not leave it connected when not on hookup. Perhaps I should have typed an essay on the subject to cover all aspects. I just assume people do know something on how things work.


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks to everybody for replying and suggesting ways of reducing the problem
especially many thanks to Chris for enquiring with Hymer.

What a fab site because of it's members

merry Christmas everyone
Kev


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

You're welcome, I hope the assistance of everyone means you now have enough information to make a balanced decision on how best to proceed. If your ever passing by, pop in and say hello.

Regards,
Chris


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

teensvan said:


> HarleyDave.
> 
> I only gave this advice as a tempory fix and would assume the user would not leave it connected when not on hookup. Perhaps I should have typed an essay on the subject to cover all aspects. I just assume people do know something on how things work.


Yep - No Problem for me

Cheers

Dave


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

teensvan said:


> Hi.
> 
> Fit up a link wire between leisure battrries and srarter battery. Use 3 core 1.5mm round cable. You only need to connect pos on starter battery to pod on leisure battery. Twist all three cores of cable togeather and connect up via a 10amp fuse.
> 
> Steve. & ann. Teensvan.


This will mean that the starter motor will try to draw a hefty current from the leisure batteries through the 10 amp fuse which will immediately break. It will also mean that the habitation lights etc will deplete the engine battery. A direct link is not advised.

There must be some method to stop this happening - a battery master is an ideal solution to get the leisure batteries, once fully charged, to trickle charge the engine battery.


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## babyrhino (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't think I am hijacking this post as it looks like it was completed but my problems are similar / related so I thought it would be a good place. I think I have two separate problems but they are linked together so I'll put them both in this post.

For various reasons we don't have time to use the van as much as we want and recently it has been standing on the drive for quite a few weeks. It has a solar panel and it is the South of France so I thought that the solar panel was keeping both batteries topped up but it seems that is not the case.

When I came to try and start it last week the starter battery was flat so I put the charger on it. Two days or more of charging and still no joy as battery still totally flat and just giving a cliccking noise when key turned.

So, problem number one is that this battery is probably dead and irretrievable - thoughts from the experts? The attached pictures (don't know how to put them into these words!) show what is currently installed. It is a 2008 Ford Transit base and the vehicle battery is under the drivers seat with the leisure battery under the passenger seat.

Picture 2928 is the leisure battery
Picture 2930 is the vehicle battery
Picture 2931 is a close up of the leisure battery set-up

Then researching on here I came across the various threads about Battery Masters and the like and decided that is what I need in the longer term to make sure both batteries are topped up by the solar panel.

Assuming that the vehicle battery is now OK (resurrected or, more probably, a new one!) where do I fit my Battery Master? The instructions are simple - just wire them to positive sources that go to each battery in turn and then to earth eg split charge relay. Unfortunately I am a bit simple as well - what and where is the split charge relay? Is it the bit that I have photgraphed in Picture 2931 or if not, where is it?

Next to the leisure battery is a big silver box that all the wires go in and out of with an on/off switch that is presumably some sort of regulator - does that come into play somewhere?

There is also a connection between the two batteries that I photographed but can't upload because of size restrictions.

Sorry to be an electrical numpty but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Brian


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## nigee (Aug 23, 2012)

*flat battery*

Hi my Autocruise Starblazer has a cab and hab switch , when i put the inboard charger on cab it charges both batteries when i put on hab it just charges the hab side


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## babyrhino (Oct 19, 2006)

A simple and effective solution!

Mine definitely doesn't have a switch like that but why don't all vans have them?

Thanks

Brian


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

babyrhino said:


> When I came to try and start it last week the starter battery was flat so I put the charger on it. Two days or more of charging and still no joy as battery still totally flat and just giving a cliccking noise when key turned.
> 
> So, problem number one is that this battery is probably dead and irretrievable - thoughts from the experts? The attached pictures (don't know how to put them into these words!) show what is currently installed. It is a 2008 Ford Transit base and the vehicle battery is under the drivers seat with the leisure battery under the passenger seat.
> Brian


Don't assume your vehicle battery is dead until you have *very* thoroughly checked *all *of the battery connections. Remove both battery terminal connections, clean very thoroughly, reassemble tightly & also check the other end connections of both positive & negative cables. Remove, clean & reassemble tightly to be sure. A pound to a penny it's the connections not the battery at fault.
Starter motors, particularly on diesel engines use many hundreds of amps to start a cold engine. A connection that appears to be OK when passing a small current, such as when being charged or for dash lamps, or even headlamps, etc., may not be up to the job of supplying the hundreds of amps necessary for starting. This results in the clicking noise that you describe.
Been there, seen it many times, battery condemned when in reality there is nothing wrong with it. Of course, battery places, AA, RAC, etc., will be glad to advise you "Ah, a new battery required, Sir, no problem". After fitting they tighten all connections & you are on your way, happy, but with a needlessly empty wallet.
I'm not suggesting batteries never fail, of course they do occasionally, but nine times out of ten it's a connection problem, so as I say, never replace the battery without checking connections first.
Here endeth the lesson according to Michael. :lol:


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Here's a link to another similar thread:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-132045-10.html
This link is to Clive Mott's system:
http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING FUSE.htm


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## babyrhino (Oct 19, 2006)

Updated news - the battery was dead and I've fitted a new one - what a fiddly job that was getting the holding bracket on and off with fairly inaccessible nuts!

Anyway, all working well again now and running properly which means that I am on to the second part of my question:

"Assuming that the vehicle battery is now OK (resurrected or, more probably, a new one!) where do I fit my Battery Master? The instructions are simple - just wire them to positive sources that go to each battery in turn and then to earth eg split charge relay. Unfortunately I am a bit simple as well - what and where is the split charge relay? Is it the bit that I have photgraphed in Picture 2931 or if not, where is it?

Next to the leisure battery is a big silver box that all the wires go in and out of with an on/off switch that is presumably some sort of regulator - does that come into play somewhere?

There is also a connection between the two batteries that I photographed but can't upload because of size restrictions.

Sorry to be an electrical numpty but any help would be greatly appreciated."

Any suggestions on this aspect? I've added the photo of the link between the batteries that I couldn't upload last time.

Thanks in advance

Brian


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## Arrachogaidh (Sep 27, 2011)

Just got a CTEK MXS10 and it is so simple to use.

Just revived and recon my battery today.

Hopefully no more discharge problems. If there are, I have an idea there must be a short circuit or heavy drain somewhere.

Brian


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