# Carbon Monoxide (CO) Alarms



## Vanterrier (Sep 1, 2011)

Apologies if this has been covered before or listed elsewhere but what is the favoured CO Alarm fitted to Motorhomes and why?

I can see a 12v version which needs to be wired into the van's 12v circuit but needs holes drilled to mount it in the right place, and then there are battery operated, either 9v or two AA batteries as well as sealed for life (6 years) units.

There doesnt appear to be anything in the ads to say how sensitive they are... so what do you guys recommend? Kidde, Honeywell, other?

any advice appreciated

K :wink:


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## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

hi

just done this

ebay, 7 year battery, i chose fire angel, has an lcd display and shows the temp! £15 delivered

mount it with stickey velcro all over the back and sick it up, easly removed if you change your mind

put around the possible source of co2, ie heater not too close to get hot but close enough to 'smell' the co2

neill
safe in cambridge


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Most unlikely that your heater would be a source of CO as its a totally sealed system.

Your hob and oven are a far more likeley source. 

If the inside of your vehicle is anything like mine you will find there are probably only a couple of places you can put it !!!

Also be aware that if it has a flashing little LED (many do) that tells you its working you will need to be even more careful where you stick it !!! That little LED will light up the inside of your van every 5 - 10 seconds ALL night and its VERY annoying (I will leave you to guess why I know that !!)


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## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> Most unlikely that your heater would be a source of CO as its a totally sealed system.
> 
> Your hob and oven are a far more likeley source.


errrrr.......

thats the whole idea isnt it, if its malfunctioning you get the CO2 in the room

how do you detect a faulty hob with a CO detector??!!

it gives off CO2 all the time, in small quantities.

do you go to bed with the hob /oven on ?

it wont detect propane either

not been nasty , just dont understand the rational 

or did i miss a bit 8O

neill


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

B and q sell them. Think ours was a tenner. Agree about the green led. Be careful where you stick it


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

CO = carbon monoxide
CO2 = carbon dioxide

The first is poisonous (toxic) and results from a badly maintained fuel burning appliance leading to incomplete combustion

The second isn't toxic- we exhale it constantly. It is also produced by efficient combustion. It will only kill you if it replaces all of the oxygen in a sealed area, so that you asphyxiate. However, in this case the lack of oxygen would result in carbon monoxide production from incomplete combustion before that occurred.

So CO is what is sensed and alarmed by these sort of units.

First Alert now seem to be pushing their sister Fire Angel brand; I have recently purchased done of these and it passes real CO exposure testing as well as just using the push button.

Correct positioning in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions is very important. Not all models are suitable for motorhomes (RVs)/caravans.


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## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

rogerblack said:


> CO = carbon monoxide
> CO2 = carbon dioxide
> Not all models are suitable for motorhomes (RVs)/caravans.


doh
monoxide / dioxide, I kew that, sorry for the error 

why are all models not suitable?

neill


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## Vanterrier (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice... I have now bought a sealed for life (7 years) unit by Honeywell... It has an LED so I will play with location before finally sticking it :lol: it cost £16.00.

K :wink:


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## j50jwr (May 9, 2006)

*Help, which one suitable for Caravan*

Hi there. I recently bought a First Alert CO detector, principally for home use, but also to check its suitability for use in the Van. The box says "Ideal for home and holiday" but the instructions state "not designed for marine or use in a caravan". Can anyone confirm that they have found one that does not state this, or even better state that the unit is suitable for this use.

Many thanks John


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

We play safe and have two carbon monoxide and two fire alarms fitted.


Don't forget to fit at the correct height!


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Should actually be placed high ,above head height if possible as CO rises and fills a confined space from the ceiling downwards.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is more info

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/19/carbon-monoxide-detector-placement

and a slightly different view

http://www.ehow.com/way_5545497_proper-elevation-carbon-monoxide-detector.html


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I think the official height is at eye view, but what about when you are sleeping.
We have one at eye height and one a little lower and in different parts of the van.
Both our fire alarms are high, one on the ceiling and one on the wall.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

We fitted a KIDDE combined fire and CO alarm.

In small print on the very last page of the instruction booklet it states as not being suitable for caravans!

However it is very sensitive, even to being set off by the exhaust fumes of lorries when we are following them up steep hills.

Gives me a heart attack when it goes off.

But IT HAS SAVED OUR LIVES.

The fridge played up one night and due to it not being correctly sealed CO entered the hab area.

If the alarm hadn't gone off we would have died in our sleep.


*BE WARNED - FIT A CARBON MONOXIDE ALARM - NOW!!!*


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good afternoon

The following is an extract from a NCC technical bulletin

Carbon Monoxide (CO) alarms will be required for NCC certification from 1st September 2011. CO alarms compliant with BS EN 50291 (type B) will be required from this date, preferably with internal batteries for 5 years (or more) of operation. Note that conformance to this standard is not required for basic CE marking, so check with the manufacturer that the alarm is fully compliant to this standard.

As a background to this, there were some concerns previously about using CO alarms in tourers and motorhomes and reports of so called ‘nuisance tripping’. This was fully investigated during tests last
year carried out by the NCC in partnership with, Coachman Caravans, Thetford Spinflo, CoGDEM (Council of Gas Detection and Environmental Monitoring) and the HSE.

It was found during these tests that no alarms were given erroneously: throughout the testing it was not possible to get an alarm, even boiling cold water on the hob in an oversize pan, until a fault was induced on the appliance. 

The testing was also able to establish basic guidelines for positioning alarms in the habitation area – outlined below.

The advice we have been given for the optimal location to site a CO alarm in a touring caravan or motorhome is:

• Fixed to a wall 15cm to 20cm below the ceiling, but higher than any door or window,
• 30cm away from any internal wall,
• Not alongside a window vent or door opening or extractor fan,
• Not directly above a source of heat or steam,
• At a horizontal distance of 1m to 3m from any potential source of CO, as stated by the alarm manufacturer (note, consider this criteria when sourcing the alarms).

The alarms will also need to be installed and tested in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Choosing a site is going to be a challenge in some designs especially when the CO alarm manufacturer requires the alarm to be 3m from any source of CO.


I believe that the FireAngel Model CO-9B meets the requirements laid out in the bulletin above.


I believe that a future revision of this bulletin will add the following reccomendations; that the device is tamper proof, utilises a sealed battery and has an end of life indicator.


I hope this helps, 
Regards,
Chris


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

premiermotorhomes said:


> ...Choosing a site is going to be a challenge in some designs especially when the CO alarm manufacturer requires the alarm to be 3m from any source of CO...................


Surely the requirement is: more than 1m but less than 3m

Not too difficult

Or have I read it wrong which at my age is quite possible.


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Gillian, 

The testing undertaken indicates that the optimal location for the installation of a CO alarm is that it needs to be fitted between 1m and 3m from the potential source of any CO, however the CO alarm instructions may require a distance of 3m from any potention source of CO.

Regards,
Chris


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## ubuntu1 (Jan 14, 2008)

*co alarm*

Well done Premier for cutting through this confused thread. Its very important to get real facts when dealing with life and death and carbon monoxide (not carbon dioxide) can and will kill you.

Co alarms don't detect gas so ignore the comment about not working with propane. Carbon monoxide is carbon monoxide it doesn't matter if its come from butane, propane, charcoal or even your wood burner at home not burning correctly. Its one atom of carbon and one atom of oxygen bonded togther as a molecule. Had it burnt correctly then it would have had more oxygen present so the carbon atoms would have bonded with two oxygen atoms creating carbon dioxide which is not toxic or poisonous.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks from me also to Premiermotorhomes and ubuntu1 - both of these have summarised very salient facts about CO.

It cannot be ignored, and sadly we have no mechanism for smelling, tasting or seeing it....

so a well fitted and maintained CO alarm is essential IMO. It is important to fit it correctly in accordance with the instructions and then to ensure it works by testing it regularly.

*Remember;* if you do get poisoned by CO you will be unaware of it,and it can, and has, proved fatal. You *MIGHT* have a headache, feel sick, have stomach pain, feel lethargic, be confused or breathless and you might be able to see a redder than normal colour in someone else - but by that time you have already taken a lot of it on board and it does not come out easily, the symptoms may occur rapidly or may develop gradually depending on the amount of gas inhaled.

If you suspect it, then *get out* of the enclosed space at once and then get it checked. IMO getting out is even more important than turning off potential sources since if you linger too long you may well become unconscious without any warning.

There are people on MHF who have worked in the fire service and I am sure we would all be delighted to receive their thoughts about this topic.

Dave


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## Seeker (Dec 26, 2005)

Fitted an Ei Electronics one (Wilkinson's £20) last week and tried it out over a couple of days away.

Had the central heating on quite a lot + the fridge and occasionally boiled a kettle on the hob.

Weird thing was that the thing's red warning light (low CO presence) came and went from time to time and one evening we came back from the pub to hear the alarm bleeping. This was when the boiler had been off for a while so could not think it was that.

Opened the windows and it soon stopped.

Now wondering whether I should get the boiler serviced. It's never been done before (in 9 years of life).


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

Seeker said:


> Now wondering whether I should get the boiler serviced. It's never been done before (in 9 years of life).


Hi,

If it is a gas powered boiler - yes, you should get it serviced.

I'm not a professional though....

Regards,
John


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## mixyblob (May 3, 2011)

It seems most manufacturers advise testing the alarm by pressing the "test" button. 
Surely, pressing the "test" button only proves that the alarm makes a noise. 
Is there a simple way of producing CO around the alarm, in order to test it, surely that would be a more thorough test.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

We fitted two smoke alarms and one CO alarm, made by Kidde. Bought as a pack of three.

One smoke alarm is in the back where the engine is transported, the other two are in the front where we live while away.

We did have to send one back to Kidde as it was giving false alarms, a new replacement arrived within 7 days, but no details of what the fault was.

We did have an alarm from the CO unit, caused by a can of thinners in the back of the trailer being left without a cap on in hot weather.

Peter


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

premiermotorhomes said:


> • Fixed to a wall 15cm to 20cm below the ceiling, but higher than any door or window,
> • 30cm away from any internal wall,
> 
> Regards,
> Chris


That's really confused me!


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