# Lowdham Protest



## wakk44

A friend of mine drove past Lowdham Leisureworld,Nottingham today and a seemingly disgruntled customer had parked his motorhome across the main entrance.He was walking up and down with a placard saying''do not buy a motorhome from this company''.

I think it will certainly have more impact than going through the proper channels,which I assume he must have done.Must watch the local news tonight for more information.


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## tonyt

That's the way to do it. If you have a gripe with someone, tell them about it loud and clear - don't just come go on some forum and whinge about what bad service you've had.

Please post any further details anyone picks up.


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## Penquin

It has been done before, but sadly we rarely hear of the outcome - there was one in Torbay a few years ago which made the local TV News - something to do with children's seats not being secured properly......

But I never heard what happened.......

someone might know ?

Dave


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## Zepp

Good for him I hope he gets want he wants or should I say a motorhome that works.


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## EnGog

Typical Lowdhams aftercare no doubt.


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## 113016

Here is another.
I stumbled upon it earlier today while searching something different. Strange!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ide-cardealership-sold-faulty-motor-home.html


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## Penquin

Grath said:


> Here is another.
> I stumbled upon it earlier today while searching something different. Strange!
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ide-cardealership-sold-faulty-motor-home.html


That was the one that I was referring to, but the thread on here was pulled and locked, and I have never heard what the outcome was - that report was from 2008........

It would be good to know the final outcome, but they had painted their greivances over the outside of the vehicle from memory and their child seat was not properly installed with a three point harness - from memory....

I can remember the video and my thoughts were that the childseat installation that had been done by the couple was not apparently safe....... 8O

I believe the same thoughts were echoed by many on here at the time

but I cannot locate the MHF thread or the youtube piece now...

Dave


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## 113016

Glad to be of service  
I was actually searching for something for Barrys, Hymer / Swift thread :lol:


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## Pudsey_Bear

Grath said:


> Here is another.
> I stumbled upon it earlier today while searching something different. Strange!
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ide-cardealership-sold-faulty-motor-home.html


I couldn't find the youtube video though.


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## rosalan

It is the lack of consistent quality that is most offensive!

Only last week Lowdhams were being praised here for their excellent service. Has something radically changed?

A friend of ours went to Brownhills in Newark to look for her first Motorhome and the salesman told her that they were the bad guys of the Motorhome world and she would only get bad reports about them.

Alan Kerr has not had a chance to give his balanced response to the problems his customer has encountered but I would certainly question his PDI service if what I read is true. I also wonder why Swift have not taken the van back straight away, if only to earn brownie points with potential new customers. It must have been more economically realistic to have done so, or were they afraid it may open the flood gates.
Last year we were looking for a new van and would have bought a Swift derivative if it were not for similar reports going about at the time.
If Burstner in Germany can take a van back and earn more good advertising than a new van would cost, why have Swift not learnt from this lesson?

Alan


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## cabby

Hey wakk44, can you tell us who the local paper is, as there must be a report about it surely.

cabby


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## joedenise

I agree with the couple WHY should we have to have a repaired mh when we bought a new one I think it was Eddie who said the other week that he had bought boats and would not expect them to be faulty so why should we expect to have a new mh repaired as soon as you drive it of the forecourt

joe


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## javea

cabby said:


> Hey wakk44, can you tell us who the local paper is, as there must be a report about it surely.
> 
> cabby


Nottingham Evening Post. Nothing in it tonight, also watched ITV Midlands news so see if anything on there but zilch. Will check the paper tomorrow.

Mike


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

Off topic but in a way on topic.

Jack my old departed electrician mate who did all my electrical sub contract work had been doing some work for a well known very large building firm..

He had been invoicing them on time and they kept fobbing him off with the old cheques in the post routine. So he made up a flask and a load of sandwiches, took a fold up chair and went to the reception and asked if his overdue money was available, of course they tried to fob him off. 

So he opened the chair and sat outside the MD's office, turned on his little radio full blast and hung a sign round his neck, I'm not moving until you pay me X amount what he was owed.. And there he sat with everybody shuffling round him, now Jack although in his sixties was over 6ft 7 and a good 19 stone so he wasn't going to move.. After about 2 hours a cheque arrived..


ray


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## Fatalhud

wakk44 said:


> A friend of mine drove past Lowdham Leisureworld,Nottingham today and a seemingly disgruntled customer had parked his motorhome across the main entrance.He was walking up and down with a placard saying''do not buy a motorhome from this company''.
> 
> I think it will certainly have more impact than going through the proper channels,which I assume he must have done.Must watch the local news tonight for more information.


Are you sure it wasn't the Salesman from David Fullers Motorhomes next door trying to reach his sales target :wink:

Alan H


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## javea

Went past Lowdham Leisureworld today and the chap was walking up and down in front of their entrance wearing a placard advising people to think before buying a motorhome from that dealer.

Apparently he has had a catalogue of problems with the vehicle which they have attempted to fix in an unsatisfactiry manner. He now does not want to keep it but he maintains that they have only made a derisory offer for the vehicle.

I have a photo on my iPad but can't work out how to attach it to a post.

Mike


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## Techno100

javea said:


> Apparently he has had a catalogue of problems with the vehicle which they have attempted to fix in an unsatisfactiry manner.
> Mike


that would be "bodged" then :lol:



> I have a photo on my iPad but can't work out how to attach it to a post.


You can send it to [email protected] if you like? and I'll post it up


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## javea

Patched the photo through from iPad to laptop so hopefully here it is.


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## aldhp21

rosalan said:


> Alan Kerr has not had a chance to give his balanced response to the problems his customer has encountered but I would certainly question his PDI service if what I read is true. I also wonder why Swift have not taken the van back straight away, if only to earn brownie points with potential new customers. It must have been more economically realistic to have done so, or were they afraid it may open the flood gates.
> Last year we were looking for a new van and would have bought a Swift derivative if it were not for similar reports going about at the time.
> Alan


Hi Alan,

we bought our previous van (CI) brand new from Alan Kerr and it couldn't have gone better. A few problems which were all sorted out very quickly.

When it came to replace the van last year I was looking at Swift Kontiki and Autotrail but came to the same conclusion. I've been seeing far too much negative feedback on Swift so went for an Adria.

Cheers
Alan (2)


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## The-Cookies

passed Lowdhams today 3pm and saw the guy with his sandwich board, although he may have a point to make he was dancing around in front of traffic and distracting drivers if there's an accident (its bad to pull out there already ) hes going to be deep in the smelly stuff.

John


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## StephandJohn

Not about a motorhome but I once bought a washing machine from Currys which flooded and did serious damage to the kitchen floor on its first use because the installers sent by Currys hadn't installed it properly
All Currys said was I had to go through their aftercare service who told me it would be weeks before they could look at it. I phoned the manager of Currys and said I was going to go to the shop and tell everyone what crap they were if they didn't arrange for a proper installer to come to fix it.
By the time I got there ready to just hang around telling all their customers he'd made arrangements for someone to come out. The chap who came agreed it had been badly installed.
It still took weeks to get the floor repaired by them but I was pleased I'd stood up for my rights!


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## cabby

lets all form a queue behind him.   he obviously needs some support.more than just himself.he will just have to hope the press are having a very slow day to get them to notice, or maybe someone could contact the press up there.

cabby


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## javea

cabby said:


> lets all form a queue behind him.   he obviously needs some support.more than just himself.he will just have to hope the press are having a very slow day to get them to notice, or maybe someone could contact the press up there.
> 
> cabby


There was a lady photographer with him who I think might have been from the press.

Mike


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## jandv

:twisted: hi i am the the one outside lowdhams and wii stay for as long as it takes i am fed up trying to be nice after going in for repairs 4 times annd lowdhams having the van for a week and then swift having it for a week also with all fixed went to morroco to be flooded 3 times..led packed up and then the water pump goes so no shower or toilet the trim inside is coming away last time it was with lowdhams i told them i will not have any more repairs so i will be outside till the 22 march then up to the show in yorkshire


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## rosalan

You have my sympathy and hope that you will end up satisfied

Alan


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## bigcats30

You get my vote mate keep at them they will see it in their sales


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## wobby

This is a very useful website, indeed it's one that I will be useing when I claim for €700 repair to my 3 1/2 year old Tec Tower.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained/

Wobby


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## Stanner

rayrecrok said:


> Hi.
> 
> Off topic but in a way on topic.
> 
> Jack my old departed electrician mate who did all my electrical sub contract work had been doing some work for a well known very large building firm..
> 
> He had been invoicing them on time and they kept fobbing him off with the old cheques in the post routine. So he made up a flask and a load of sandwiches, took a fold up chair and went to the reception and asked if his overdue money was available, of course they tried to fob him off.
> 
> So he opened the chair and sat outside the MD's office, turned on his little radio full blast and hung a sign round his neck, I'm not moving until you pay me X amount what he was owed.. And there he sat with everybody shuffling round him, now Jack although in his sixties was over 6ft 7 and a good 19 stone so he wasn't going to move.. After about 2 hours a cheque arrived..
> 
> ray


I know someone who did the same - same size but significantly younger and (possibly) fitter.
He only got as far as the reception desk in the entrance lobby where he started his sit in. The entrance lobby was shared with several other high profile companies and he turned up right in the middle of the morning rush, so he had plenty of very amused spectators.

Within 15 minutes a cheque was sent down in the lift - just the cheque laid on the floor - nobody with it.


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## StephandJohn

We're all with you Jandv. Keep us informed and ood luck.


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## 113016

jandv said:


> :twisted: hi i am the the one outside lowdhams and wii stay for as long as it takes i am fed up trying to be nice after going in for repairs 4 times annd lowdhams having the van for a week and then swift having it for a week also with all fixed went to morroco to be flooded 3 times..led packed up and then the water pump goes so no shower or toilet the trim inside is coming away last time it was with lowdhams i told them i will not have any more repairs so i will be outside till the 22 march then up to the show in yorkshire


Jandv, you have our support. I hope things go well for you


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## StephandJohn

Just a thought everyone. Should we all email Lowdham's and tell them we support Jandv and won't buy anything off them until this is sorted out?


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## anneandgeorge

Good luck Jandv. It's about time somebody took a stand to these motorhome dealers. Why should we all put up with the bad service which is dished out once they have our money. I know there are some good dealers but very far and few between. I think we should name and shame then perhaps they will treat all their customers with the respect they deserve. We all save hard for a big item like a motorhome, I really feel for Jandv. Keep us informed with outcome.


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## Zepp

Im with you Jandv hope you get it sorted 



Paul


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## Pudsey_Bear

A lot of this hassle that some people have is about perception, some people will get very upset over something others might not even notice, that's not to say there isn't a problem or that it should be ignored.

I would get very angry though if I bought a brand new van and it already had a catalogue of faults, and would expect eh dealer to fix them to my satisfaction as soon as possible.


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## jandv

to date my van has had a new toilet fitted after two repairs taps leaking flooding van 4 times repaired twice new taps fitted twice fresh water tank bleeps all the time saying empty repaired twice still broke new shower back fitted grill door repaired twice then new door fitted wooden grill suround reglued then replace hook up cover repaired skylight refitted outside molding replace cupboard backs coming away electric step broke two large wooden panels replacedrawer and door would not close repaired toilet roll holder fell off three times fridge light packed up step plinth replace trim inside rebonded toilet resealed new cab headlining replace now the led has stoped working water pump has packed up more interior coming away....i could go on but i think you get the picture all i was after off lowdhams was the money i put into the van not a penny more i am now at the end of the line with them all they do is stall and stall !!!! no more i have had enough thanks for all your surport


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## teemyob

*Protest*

I did it years ago with a Mercedes Car.

Parked it outside the main Entrance to the Dealership with notices in every window, 2 in the front and back screens.

Left it there for 10 days.

Sometimes, things get you that way.

BUT!

You must be very careful what you say and write. Stick to the facts and be very careful how you word anything. Defamation of character, slanderous statements or false accusations. Could put you in serious trouble and the whole thing being turned against you. We live with some quite antiquated laws, written in another language that most of us do not understand. I was very careful with what I put on my notices.

There are now Double yellow lines all around the dealership right up-to the Entrance. Maybe they were Masons or the Fact that Mercedes UK now own the Garage that they got things Changed :wink:


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## anneandgeorge

I have just read all of Jandvs complaints and it is disgusting. Why don't we all go up there on Sunday and support him. Each and every one of us know how we would feel in his position. We are game, come on all you motorhomers let's support our fellow motorhomer. Put yourself in his position and lets get together. I will await replies.


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## nukeadmin

I have been on communication with Lowdhams today reference this thread as they had been made aware of it.

As always there are two sides to every story and Lowdhams Commercial Director "Steve Sharpe" has asked me to post their response quoted unchanged below:-



> This is an official statement from Steve Sharpe, Commercial Director, Lowdham Leisureworld Ltd - Steve has been with the company for 33 years and has been a motorhomer for many years.
> 
> "This is breaking a habit of a lifetime as I have been told that if a dealer enters into any conversation with a forum, it only enflames the situation and makes matters worse.
> 
> However, this is Motorhome Facts and what really amazes me is how quickly people dive into a situation without actually knowing the facts or at least the other side of the story. I guess if a dealer is involved people automatically think we are a big organisation who is overpowering an individual and they are only running to his defence; I suppose this is only natural.
> 
> We are a family business and have been so since 1966. We employ a good number of local people who have been with us for some years. I passionately believe that every member of staff at Lowdhams will do their upmost to satisfy a customer. We pride ourselves on this and have won many customer led awards because of our customer service skills. That said, we are only human and yes, we make mistakes and sometimes we are in the hands of third parties such as manufacturers and suppliers in terms of decision making.
> 
> We have a gentleman outside our front gates who for the last five days has been handing out leaflets telling people to think twice about buying from Lowdhams. He is doing this because we will not give him a sum of money he is demanding. These leaflets are not fully factual and we have a duty to protect our employees, their families and our livelihood. Here are the facts-
> 
> Yes, our customer has had ongoing problems with his vehicle. Much more than is usual or acceptable with a new motorhome. The repairs have been dragged out due to our lack of knowledge regarding a manufacturer's defect and also our customer deciding to permanently move to Spain. The manufacturer also did a full repair to the customer's satisfaction.
> 
> Sadly, our customer has had more recent problems on a trip to Morocco. At this point we had all decided enough is enough and we made a personal appeal to the manufacturer explaining that this customer was having more problems with his vehicle and that he didn't want any further repairs.
> 
> We totally understood his frustration and have been negotiating with the manufacturer to find a solution. Please bear in mind we don't build the vehicles; our fully trained, NCC approved, technicians repair them. These negotiations went on for some time; our customer had owned the vehicle for over 18 months but was looking for a full refund. Whilst we had sympathy for Mr Pocock, we do have to follow the law and we needed a lot of help from the manufacturer.
> 
> However, on Monday 28th January we had a meeting with the customer in an attempt to salvage the relationship. Our customer was offered a sum of money that exceeded what he had paid us for it in June 2011. He still wasn't happy with this offer as he also wanted money back for some extras he had fitted to the vehicle via another dealer. We had offered to return these items to him.
> 
> Our customer still demanded more or else he would proceed to hand out the leaflets.
> This is what he has been doing since Monday and has managed to turn a good number of customers away. Unfortunately we have had to now seek legal advice, this is mainly due to the leaflet being handed out is not fully factual. Despite a solicitor's notice our customer refuses to go via the normal legal route stating he would end up with less for his vehicle if the matter went to court.
> 
> Today we have had another meeting and our customer has now stated that he no longer wants a refund or a repair and when asked what he does want, he said 'absolutely nothing, he was enjoying himself giving out leaflets and telling people to think twice about buying from Lowdhams'. He also stated he will not be moved! On any analysis it is clear that his object is to malign our business for seemingly his own pleasure.
> 
> We are really at a lost as what to do. Our staff are taking this matter personally and are concerned for the business we are losing. I really hope this balances the view on this situation, I don't know what more we can do?"


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## 91502

anneandgeorge said:


> I have just read all of Jandvs complaints and it is disgusting. Why don't we all go up there on Sunday and support him. Each and every one of us know how we would feel in his position. We are game, come on all you motorhomers let's support our fellow motorhomer. Put yourself in his position and lets get together. I will await replies.


Nice idea but be careful.
Everyone is entitled to protest peacefully but if a whole gang of motorhomes turn up parking outside the Police may become involved and if they see that it is causing a danger with traffic or causing a nuisance to other local people then they have a power to move you (and the original poster) away to a designated safe location to carry out your protest and this would obviously please the dealer.
James


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## helperman

To steve sharpe..

If i buy a van off you and use it 18 months and find a few faults-

can we agree you will you give me what i paid back for it once the extras are removed and save me the trouble of parking up and handing out bad press :wink:


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## wakk44

Very interesting to see the dealer's side of the story,it's sometimes not a good idea to jump to conclusions until both sides are heard.It seems like Lowdham have been fair in offering more than jandv paid for the motorhome in 2011.

I think the situation needs mediation and an independent adjudicator who hopefully would make a fair decision.As it is it may go the legal route which would be costly for both parties.


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## erneboy

Interesting statement from Lowdhams.

They agree that the vehicle had defects beyond the usual and have offered to refund in full but not for accessories which they did not fit, although they will detach those and give them to the customer.

Now apparently the customer has decided he wants nothing from them, it seems they think he is refusing to discuss matters or negotiate any further.

Lowdhams are finding that this customer is effecting business with his protest.

It seems to me that they really do need him to go away. So perhaps it might be best to refund him the cost of the van plus his extras just to get rid of him. If that costs a little more than they feel happy with perhaps they should regard it as an element of compensation for the discomfort the customer has had using a van on far away travels without proper facilities.

It's a pity they allowed the situation to get to this point as a speedy and generous resolution could have been good publicity whereas this is anything but. 

I have some sympathy with both sides in this but I still feel that Lowdhams need to be the ones to end it, amicably and probably secretly if they can, even if there is a cost in doing so. There certainly seems to be a cost in not doing so.

I hope it's solved soon, Alan.


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## rosalan

I would like to think that the chap could have paid up to be a member if he expected support from us.

The manufacturers should also have a say, if they have the courage, as Lowdhams did.

Oddly, after reading this whole thread, I would not hesitate to use Lowdhams.

Alan


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## raynipper

Bad news is always louder than good news. 
Sadly this dispute has escalated to the point where both parties end up losing.

Ray.


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## erneboy

rosalan said:


> I would like to think that the chap could have paid up to be a member if he expected support from us.
> 
> The manufacturers should also have a say, if they have the courage, as Lowdhams did.
> 
> Oddly, after reading this whole thread, I would not hesitate to use Lowdhams.
> 
> Alan


I agree but the problem is that most of their customers won't be reading the thread. They simply need him to go away and it sounds as though satisfying him is the only way to do that, Alan.


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## goldi

Afternoon all,

Perhaps mr pocock might like to comment on lowdhams, now that we have read the other sideof the story.


norm


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## Curtisden

*Protest*

Well done Lowdhams.
My Dealer Johns Cross were also fully supportive in trying to sort my problems with a Autocruise. Or as far as Swift would allow them to be.

But that is the problem.
Swift make a product that some , quite a lot, have regular problems with and it was my experience that the Equipment suppliers were as bad as the makers in their part.

But the contract is with the dealer.

So maybe the dealers should also stand up and be counted and stop selling vans that have a history of not being fit for purpose.

In my case I sold the 14 month old van for a £10,000 loss and bought a Award winning independent with far more decent kit and fittings and at less than the similar Swift offering. Had it 6 months now and not a single thing has even rattled let alone dropped apart. By this time my Swift was a wreck requiring regular returns to the dealer to rebuild it. I jus had enough and the prospect of a MH that no longer had a warrantee was frankly terrifying.

I was a Swift customer for 30 years and did have a damp caravan exchanged after 12 months as long as I bought another. 
But I was at the NEC last week and bypassed their stand. Not interested.
The Power of the internet is growing and people are understanding they can get their case out there very quickly.
Interesting Swift are as usual absent?
.


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## simbadog

Strikes me that Lowdhams are being pretty fair IMHO, I can't help feeling that the protester is going to end up in serious trouble if he carries on 8O


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## ceejayt

IMHO if he has refused a full refund after 18 months and the return of his bits and bats then he is as mad as a box of frogs and my sympathy is (unusually) with the dealer.


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## 113016

Having now read both sides, If I were the customer, I would certainly accept the refund offer.
Maybe there is more to it, but the offer seems good to me!


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## anneandgeorge

It is interesting to hear Lowdhams side of this saga and well done to them for putting their side of events on this forum. I agree he would be silly not to accept the offer that has been put to him. I think Lowdhams have offered more than a lot of dealers would have. He should really think this through now to bring an end to this. I still feel sympathy with Jandv for the hassle he has had with the van and as others have said 'why don't the manufacturers' make comment. Didn't realise he was not a member on here.


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## erneboy

Yes I also think he should accept the offer.


But I can see where the customer is coming from too. He has had a very bad time with this van. He has added accessories to it.

No doubt he believes he should be able to return it without financial loss of any kind. And while, as far as I know, the law would not support that it doesn't seem completely unreasonable, especially given the problems he had while away in it and the times he has not had the use of it while repairs were attempted.

What does seem completely unreasonable, if it's true, is his refusal to discuss the matter any further, Alan.


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## 113016

I would give mine back for what I paid.
A years use and money back. Yes please!


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## stevebeech

*Jandva*

Jandva

Please could you get in touch with me

steve dot beech @ bbc dot co dot uk
0115 902 1890


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## rosalan

...and who's side will the BBC take?


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## 113016

rosalan said:


> ...and who's side will the BBC take?


If it is anything like Vine, all they want is a story to boost listening or viewing figures. At the expense of the consumer and dealer :x


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## Techno100

I don't like this :roll:


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## Penquin

nukeadmin said:


> I have been on communication with Lowdhams today reference this thread as they had been made aware of it.
> 
> As always there are two sides to every story and Lowdhams Commercial Director "Steve Sharpe" has asked me to post their response quoted unchanged below:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an official statement from Steve Sharpe, Commercial Director, Lowdham Leisureworld Ltd - Steve has been with the company for 33 years and has been a motorhomer for many years.
> 
> "This is breaking a habit of a lifetime as I have been told that if a dealer enters into any conversation with a forum, it only enflames the situation and makes matters worse.
> 
> However, this is Motorhome Facts and what really amazes me is how quickly people dive into a situation without actually knowing the facts or at least the other side of the story. I guess if a dealer is involved people automatically think we are a big organisation who is overpowering an individual and they are only running to his defence; I suppose this is only natural.
> 
> We are a family business and have been so since 1966. We employ a good number of local people who have been with us for some years. I passionately believe that every member of staff at Lowdhams will do their upmost to satisfy a customer. We pride ourselves on this and have won many customer led awards because of our customer service skills. That said, we are only human and yes, we make mistakes and sometimes we are in the hands of third parties such as manufacturers and suppliers in terms of decision making.
> 
> We have a gentleman outside our front gates who for the last five days has been handing out leaflets telling people to think twice about buying from Lowdhams. He is doing this because we will not give him a sum of money he is demanding. These leaflets are not fully factual and we have a duty to protect our employees, their families and our livelihood. Here are the facts-
> 
> Yes, our customer has had ongoing problems with his vehicle. Much more than is usual or acceptable with a new motorhome. The repairs have been dragged out due to our lack of knowledge regarding a manufacturer's defect and also our customer deciding to permanently move to Spain. The manufacturer also did a full repair to the customer's satisfaction.
> 
> Sadly, our customer has had more recent problems on a trip to Morocco. At this point we had all decided enough is enough and we made a personal appeal to the manufacturer explaining that this customer was having more problems with his vehicle and that he didn't want any further repairs.
> 
> We totally understood his frustration and have been negotiating with the manufacturer to find a solution. Please bear in mind we don't build the vehicles; our fully trained, NCC approved, technicians repair them. These negotiations went on for some time; our customer had owned the vehicle for over 18 months but was looking for a full refund. Whilst we had sympathy for Mr Pocock, we do have to follow the law and we needed a lot of help from the manufacturer.
> 
> However, on Monday 28th January we had a meeting with the customer in an attempt to salvage the relationship. Our customer was offered a sum of money that exceeded what he had paid us for it in June 2011. He still wasn't happy with this offer as he also wanted money back for some extras he had fitted to the vehicle via another dealer. We had offered to return these items to him.
> 
> Our customer still demanded more or else he would proceed to hand out the leaflets.
> This is what he has been doing since Monday and has managed to turn a good number of customers away. Unfortunately we have had to now seek legal advice, this is mainly due to the leaflet being handed out is not fully factual. Despite a solicitor's notice our customer refuses to go via the normal legal route stating he would end up with less for his vehicle if the matter went to court.
> 
> Today we have had another meeting and our customer has now stated that he no longer wants a refund or a repair and when asked what he does want, he said 'absolutely nothing, he was enjoying himself giving out leaflets and telling people to think twice about buying from Lowdhams'. He also stated he will not be moved! On any analysis it is clear that his object is to malign our business for seemingly his own pleasure.
> 
> We are really at a lost as what to do. Our staff are taking this matter personally and are concerned for the business we are losing. I really hope this balances the view on this situation, I don't know what more we can do?"
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that message, sadly for me the "expand" option was not available so the only way that I could read the statement was by doing this quote and reply..

To me that dealer has behaved in a manner which raises them in my book considerably. They have explained the facts as they see them and what they have tried to do - none of which has been mentioned before by the OP......

It appears as if all "reasonable offers" have been rejected - for that I hold little further sympathy for the OP - IMO Lowdhams have behaved superbly and their response would strengthen my likelihood of dealing with them if we wanted a new MH.

Maybe I am being taken in by their response but it certainly seems to have a good flow of material though it and makes perfectly logical sense to me.

A very generous offer has been made, the accessories they did not fit will be returned but still he will not accept or discuss - that to me suggests that nothing will appease him and that sense has been lost for the desire to stir up trouble.

It may well be that the cheapest way out is to recompense him for it all - but that to me is a form of bullying by a customer and is not negotiation.

It is easy too initially have sympathy with the OP, but when more details emerge his case seems markedly less clear to me. After 18 months his chance to legally reject a vehicle is very slight....... even the OFT says such since rejecting a vehicle is a complex step and has to be done rapidly.

Yes, his contract is with the dealer, but the dealer has made a reasonable, nay generous offer.....

it is time for him to think again about his stance. He could end up losing a lot more by continuing his action if the material is not totally accurate..........

Dave


----------



## chiefwigwam

anneandgeorge said:


> I have just read all of Jandvs complaints and it is disgusting. Why don't we all go up there on Sunday and support him. Each and every one of us know how we would feel in his position. We are game, come on all you motorhomers let's support our fellow motorhomer. Put yourself in his position and lets get together. I will await replies.


Goes to show, you shouldn't jump to conclusions or jump on the bandwagon, full refund offered after 18 months, good deal if you ask me


----------



## 747

rosalan said:


> ...and who's side will the BBC take?


Maybe he is on the Crimewatch programme. :lol:


----------



## pomme1

Nice to see the sensationalist vultures from the media circling!

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh!


----------



## cabby

I f ever there was a case for mods this was it, the post should have been removed imho. they could have got hold of him easily enough, they know where he is. :lol: :lol: :lol: not hiding thats for sure.

cabby


----------



## 747

pomme1 said:


> Nice to see the sensationalist vultures from the media circling!
> 
> Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh!


I think 'sensationalist vultures circling' might be just a tad over the top. 

Unless he was seen staggering out of a Nightclub at 3 am with Prince Harry. :lol:


----------



## Curtisden

*Protest*

Some points seems to being missed as the offer takes over the thread.

That is why do Swift build such poorly built products in the first place.
Why do we buy them over and over again?
What happened to the QC procedures at both the manufacturer and dealer prior to handover.
Why are Swift not on here giving their pennies worth?

Think we all agree the dealer is doing his best but what is Swift's input?

P


----------



## Penquin

As a former Mod then I think such things would have created problems for the team then - indeed similar threads did cause problems and much discussion amongst the team.......there was no "100% right" answer.

Sadly, there are always two sides to every story and no-one can insist on seeing both sides when a thread is started - that would totally stifle every thread - particularly those with a political stance..... :lol: 

Lowdhams are well aware of where the gentleman concerned is and it appears from their statement that they have made efforts to discuss and explain their actions and suggestions.

But sadly, it appears as if these efforts have been rebuffed. So posting the OP MAY have highlighted the problem to us and to Lowdhams, but will it have made it easier to sort..... :? 

IMO it will be harder to sort it amicably now, but I genuinely hope that I am wrong and that it will all be sorted soon, and that both sides will be able to explain the outcome on here.

Like many, I am disappointed that there are so few dealerships or manufacturers involved with MHF, but perhaps the response from Lowdhams gives all of us a gentle reminder about why this is so.....  

Dave


----------



## chiefwigwam

*Re: Protest*



Curtisden said:


> Some points seems to being missed as the offer takes over the thread.
> 
> That is why do Swift build such poorly built products in the first place.
> Why do we buy them over and over again?
> What happened to the QC procedures at both the manufacturer and dealer prior to handover.
> Why are Swift not on here giving their pennies worth?
> 
> Think we all agree the dealer is doing his best but what is Swift's input?
> 
> P


Don't buy them then


----------



## GEMMY

I take it that, now jandv have been rumbled, that's the last we hear on the subject.

Looking forward to the civil action in court, might prove expensive for j or v. 8) 

tony


----------



## Fatalhud

Must admit the only Dealings I have had with Lowdhams, has been very positive

Bought second hand van from them, They made sure a few little defects where sorted before Delivery
I then had problems with Electsol batteries that where 18 months old, they swapped them without question


Alan H


----------



## 113016

The only dealings I have had with Lowdhams, was last year when I was looking to change my van.
They offered me the lowest part exchange price, by far out of quite a few dealers, and that was against a new van at full retail.
They offered £17K others offered £18K, £20K, £22K and £25K.
OK, I know, it depends on the profit on the vehicle you are buying, but Lowdhams wanted it at both ends  
There was a considerable difference (percentage wise, 47%) between the lowest and highest offer!


----------



## Zebedee

GEMMY said:


> I take it that, now jandv have been rumbled, that's the last we hear on the subject. tony


But why do so many members immediately accept as gospel the word of a new and non-subscribing member, who is obviously making calculated use of the forum to pressurise a dealer?

It keeps happening, and every time the dealer is slagged off unmercifully . . . until the truth is revealed. I wonder how many apologies will be posted??

Dave


----------



## GEMMY

That is why I NEVER made a comment earlier, disgruntled customer slagging off a dealer, not a subscriber, coming on here with HIS side of a story. As usual there are two sides.

tony


----------



## 113016

I said the other day, on a different thread, we knock the so called successfully business story, and we champion the underdog.
It's a very British thing :wink:


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Protest*



Curtisden said:


> Some points seems to being missed as the offer takes over the thread.
> 
> That is why do Swift build such poorly built products in the first place.
> Why do we buy them over and over again?
> What happened to the QC procedures at both the manufacturer and dealer prior to handover.
> Why are Swift not on here giving their pennies worth?
> 
> Think we all agree the dealer is doing his best but what is Swift's input?
> 
> P


The big question is why do the likes of Lowdhams sell them? Especially as the SoGA makes the SELLER responsible for the rubbish the makers make.

This just appears to back up what someone said in a thread about how motorhome maker's names are pronounced.

In the case of SWIFT the "W" is pronounced as "H" and the "F" is silent.


----------



## chiefwigwam

As always I think we all need to see the bigger picture, I mean, some people have bigger more important things to worry about such as health, family etc, if the OP cannot see reason to accept Lowdhams offer then that's for him to decide, Lowdhams can't make them accept it, 

However I can also see the other side of the coin, I would be very very angry , but I would almost certainly have accepted the offer


----------



## Zebedee

*Re: Protest*



Stanner said:


> The big question is why do the likes of Lowdhams sell them?


That's easy - because the likes of us buy them. :roll:

Are they really any worse than most others, or is it because there are so many around that the inevitable small percentage of bad 'uns adds up to quite a lot of vans?

Don't know because I've never had one, but loads of others seem to think they are OK or they wouldn't keep buying them.

Dave


----------



## 113016

I think many people buy them as they are ex caravanner,s and think they know the product. New comers may know the name.
Many are used by campsite hoppers, where continental vans are made for wilding.
I think UK vans are probably more comfortable and frilly, where German vans are more functional.
French are somewhere in between!
Just my opinion


----------



## rosalan

If we are not careful, we may fall into the mode of critic again, without hearing all sides of the argument.
Time was, I believe that Swift did on occasions offer thoughts on these threads, I wonder if Nuke sent them a copy of these goings on for their observations and viewpoint if they would respond or have Swift wiped their hands of responses for fear of negative outcomes?

I do not own a Swift, due to so much negative reporting. I do like their layouts and their vans seem well equipped but after the problems with damp and other more petty faults, we bought German. This goes against the grain for I had an Autosleeper which was excellent, so this country can build a quality van but I would love to have bought British again. There again, what happened to Bentley  

Alan


----------



## Curtisden

*Protest*

"""I think many people buy them as they are ex caravanner,s and think they know the product. New comers may know the name. 
Many are used by campsite hoppers, where continental vans are made for wilding. 
I think UK vans are probably more comfortable and frilly, where German vans are more functional. """

I think Garth has a very good point there.
If you only know what a caravan offers when on site, you look for the same and forget that half of the time you may be still in it traveling. I did.
When after 25+ years I joined the "Dark Side" I was drawn to the company that had supplied all my Caravans, and was nervous of Swift having read of so much on forums prior to buying.
In fact a local Maidstone second hand dealer told me when I told him I was looking at a Swift. Don't! we wont buy them in and listed a long list of why.
But we went ahead and on the way home from picking up the new Autocruise version of a Sundance, thought God this rattles and the doubt started to grow that I had made a mistake.
Dealer was great, did what he could, but while the list is too long to bother here it was not cosmetic. Far from it. 90 Lt water tank held in place by 2x screws, in a frame I could bend with little effort. It fell off on th way back from Paris with 1500 miles on the clock.
Cookers that were held in place by 4 X 1 inch screws that were in turn screwed into chip board.
I didn't bother the dealer in the end but undertook my own repairs reaffixing what ever came away on each trip myself so it did not again.
This included gluing softwood plugs into the chipboard carcass all over the place, so as to get a decent fixing that had half a chance of staying in place.
But it was the design that was also to blame IMO. 4 Burner Hob ovens over the wheel arch. What hope did that have in staying in place? Apart from being a good replacement for a bass drum due to its lack of insulation, it took the full force of any bouncing along the road. Fell to pieces, got through 3 sets of hinges and came adrift from the carcass more times than I can remember.
When I found what I traded it in for, the difference was total. Instead of light board, solid ply construction with reinforced construction where stress occurred.
Went round the NEC last week and looked at all the campers on offer and very happy with what I have chosen now. In fact only Vantage got somewhere near what I bought for design but not kit.
Not everyones cup of tea but then I don't like rattles and every coach built I have driven is a box of nails on wheels when on the road. But then I have only tried a few and yes you guessed it. From one maker in the main.

While the protest is one thing what has been clear to me is that some settle for very little and some want perfection. £47.000 I want it to stay together, be quiert on the road and be well made. Pride in ownership also comes into it.


----------



## peedee

There is always Bailey and Autotrail in the mass market. I also have never liked Swifts
mainly imprinted on me from my caravanning days!

peedee


----------



## Penquin

IMO Swift used to be a very active participant on MHF with Ash answering points frequently.....

that all stopped when they opened the "SwiftTalk" forum - sadly for MHF users.

The no longer participate on here at all - there have been a couple of posts from them, but not a lot........

One of the points that they made - in the same way that Lowdhams have, is that when they are on here they only tend to attract negative comments - which must be very frustrating for them since none of us like constant criticism......

The Swift Forum is a waste of time IMO - you are restricted in what you can post and if they don't like it or it is negative, then it is removed rapidly and ignored - no answers are forthcoming. I suppose that is Moderation carried to the extreme.

But one of the points is that if that is the view held by many such companies - that being on here is simply attracting negative comments which they struggle to respond to so that they can not meet everyone's concerns.

Many, many people have made very many negative comments without being in full awareness of all of the facts - it is very easy to be judge and jury and only listen to one side of the problem - but such a view will rarely give a just answer that is supported by all.

Dave


----------



## erneboy

If, as some contend, Swift vans are generally fairly well made and give little bother it's all the stranger that Swift don't immediately and decisively act to repair/replace the rogue few and meet customers expectations don't you think? What a trusted brand they would become if they did that.

If it's true it's even odder that they don't have an internal system to identify where and how these allegedly few, but often serious, faults are occurring and act to prevent it happening again.

That's called quality control. 

But as far as I can tell, as a spectator, Swift and others don't have a functioning quality system. I wonder if they even have a pretend/lip service one? It they cared or if it was important to them they would fix the problem, it's not impossible and it might be less expensive than fire fighting. Even if there was a small cost it would be compensated for in sales if they were known as a quality marque.

It's not rocket science inspecting vehicles for faults and working out simple methods of recording who did what so that faulty kit or workmanship can be rectified. All it needs is one competent employee with enough imagination to figure out how to do it and the full backing of the management behind him/her to implement it and make sure it works.

Anyway till we stop hearing these stories with their dismally slow rectification and the plaintive cries of customers who have been stuffed then given the run around I won't be buying a Swift or another Autotrail, Alan.


----------



## Stanner

Penquin said:


> The Swift Forum is a waste of time IMO - you are restricted in what you can post and if they don't like it or it is negative, then it is removed rapidly and ignored - no answers are forthcoming.


Surely that tells you all you need to know about a company's (ANY company's) attitude to "customer service".?

= Fingers in ears and "La lala lala, I can't hear you!"


----------



## Penquin

Totally agree with you Stanner and Alan - their quality control seems to be suspect, if you have a good one you are happy, if you have a "Friday afternoon" one then there seems little chance that Swift will try to sort it out....

Over the years comments about Swift have IMO outnumbered all other makes - that may well be a statistical thing as there are more of them around or they are more prominent, but it comes down to the same thing "there are too many of them with major problems" - for that to be ignored.......

Our one is good, but we bought it when it was 18 months old and if such problems as delaminating floor, damp, gearbox failure, water leaks, electrical control systems or any of the other frequently reported problems had been present we would not have bought it......

Buying a NEW Swift is certainly a leap of faith, you never know what sort of quality you are going to end up with......

The dealer is stuck in the middle - he has the contract with the purchaser but has to go back to Swift to get recompense - and the rate reported for warranty work is very low - hence the difficulty of finding other dealers to take on such work......

So yes, Swift MUST bear the blame for the failings, Lowdhams did not build the thing, merely acted as sellers linking Swift to the customer....

From our dealings with Seift they will NOT deal directly with the customer - that to me is VERY frustrating and has caused serious questions when we need parts - of course we are located in France (where Swift have no presence at all), so no dealer in France will deal with Swift, so we have to obtain any required parts via helpful UK based dealers (the last time was Johns Cross who were able to get the parts for us) and then try to arrange delivery.......

Swift do not have an unblemished record IMO - far from it.....

Dave


----------



## simbadog

I was going to purchase a new Swift Sundance last year, then I started reading comments on various forums & I thought I would register for their own user forum & see what customers had to say.
Tried 4 times to register & even emailed them to join, ignored every time, I took that to indicate that they didn't want people to see what was being said. 8O 
In the end I decided not to go ahead & instead purchased an old Elddis which has so far proved fine, if this year goes well will look to buy a new one next year, but it will probably not be British built!
Sad really


----------



## Zebedee

erneboy said:


> It's not rocket science inspecting vehicles for faults and working out simple methods of recording who did what so that faulty kit or workmanship can be rectified. All it needs is one competent employee with enough imagination to figure out how to do it and the full backing of the management behind him/her to implement it and make sure it works.


Even simpler Alan, re-employ a recently retired employee (or two) on a part time basis, who have been through the whole manufacturing process . . . . and who are of an age to take a pride in their own work and the company image.

It is regrettably true that many younger employees take little care and have no pride in their work. They are not entirely to blame however as loyalty is a two-way process, and since the Personnel Departments were renamed "Human *Resources*" it has all been downhill.

If they pay the minimum wage they can expect only minimum commitment! And if they paid a decent wage we would have to pay even more for our motorhomes! 8O

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy - unfortunately!

Dave


----------



## teljoy

Zebedee said:


> and since the Personnel Departments were renamed "Human *Resources*" it has all been downhill.
> Dave


Spot on Dave. I worked for a financial company throughout the seventies up to 2001 and watched the process of dehumanisation in the changeover.

Terry


----------



## 113016

Without been racist, there are far too many Eastern Europeans taking British Manufacturing jobs because they are cheaper, and ZERO investment in people, by British Industry.
On the whole  
No loyalty from Employers and Employees alike  
Gone to the dogs, and cats :wink:


----------



## nicholsong

Reading the posts since Lowdhams responded it seems that they have benefited from posting that response, and hopefully that might persuade them, other dealers and manufacturers to respond in a similar way.

It appears to me that the complainants are being irrational, unreasonable and acting against their own interests, with possibly an element of vindictiveness.

I wonder whether Lowdhams have considered posting their response above on a large board at their entrance and inside their property, preferably in sight of a CCTV camera - to protect against removal, which would constitute criminal damage and trepass and give legal grounds for further action and could result in Police action.

Geoff


----------



## Dill

Last week after reading the good reports regarding Lowdhams, I thought they must have turned over a new leaf. Reading this thread just confirmed my finding many years ago with them.

He should've snapped there hand off when they offered his money back. You can bet your bottom dollar it's not there first offer to him. I have had dealings with Lowdhams at Huddersfield with new caravans many years ago that had to be returned to Swift.

One was a brand new Conqueror, first time we put the awning up dents appeared in the side wall. This was due to the fact that Swift had only put three awning blocks in the sidewalls, after many months of arguing, the van at my own expense was returned to Swift who looked at the Van and flatly refused to repair saying that the awning was at fault due to it having five roof poles. 

To cut a long story, it wasn't until Isabella got involved, Swift eventually did the repair. This went on for many months and all this time Lowdhams just sat on the fence and did nothing but relay messages. I have never used them since.

Dill


----------



## chiefwigwam

Grath said:


> Without been racist, there are far too many Eastern Europeans taking British Manufacturing jobs because they are cheaper, and ZERO investment in people, by British Industry.
> On the whole
> No loyalty from Employers and Employees alike
> Gone to the dogs, and cats :wink:


And why not ? Why should we support British??? Most of it is ****e anyway


----------



## 113016

chiefwigwam said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without been racist, there are far too many Eastern Europeans taking British Manufacturing jobs because they are cheaper, and ZERO investment in people, by British Industry.
> On the whole
> No loyalty from Employers and Employees alike
> Gone to the dogs, and cats :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> And why not ? Why should we support British??? Most of it is [email protected]~& anyway
Click to expand...

I was not talking about supporting British, but about no investment in people, no skill training, no trust, and the inevitability that the little industry we have, will go to foreign labour. Most probably, go altogether in the end!


----------



## Curtisden

*Protest*

Just had a look on the Swift Talk Web Site.
Not a hint of a mention re the protest on there.
But have to say quite a lot of unhappy people with bits dropping off, stuff not working or simply unhappy. So they are not censoring the site?
Peter


----------



## wobby

Over the last 5 years I've purchased 2 Carthago's from Lowdham. Both have had a few problems. With the exception of a faulty windscreen on the first van all the problems have been with equipment that's fitted to most vans IE Thetford, Dometic ect. Lowdham up untill now have been very good in their response and helpfulness in dealing with these problems. Three weeks ago our Tec tower refrigerator failed and we had to have a complete cooler unit fitted at a cost of €730. We are now in discussions with Lowdham. Our van is 42 months old, however the SOGA states that we may have a case as 72 months is the time limit on a claim based on "cost, type of fault and a reasonable expectation of its life span.. We are hoping that we can resolve this outside the court room, but if nessasary...... What ever the outcome I will buy my next van from Lowdham because I feel they are in general a good company and in the main I trust them..

Wobby..


----------



## waspes

I hope this has a happy ending   


Peter.


----------



## gj1023

Very interesting thread , which shows the need to hear both sides before you jump in, the same with anything in life . I think Lowdham statement makes it clear that they feel they have done the best the can for the customer and to me they have. 

As to why the customer has and will not accept their offer , that will remain a mystery to us , unless he comes on here to explain. I, like many others would in the circumstances , have accepted their offer. 
Because then this sad episode can be put behind you and you can move on. 18 months is a lot of life to spend on this and prolonging it seems pointless.

Gary


----------



## wakk44

gj1023 said:


> ...................... unless he comes on here to explain. ...............
> 
> Gary


Definitely,he was quite willing to use the forum to garner support,I think he ought to come on here,update us and comment on Lowdham's excellent response.

On the face of it the situation looked like a big company treating a customer badly and I must admit I was guilty of thinking that.However having heard both sides it changed my opinion somewhat

Over to you jandv.


----------



## Fatalhud

wakk44 said:


> gj1023 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...................... unless he comes on here to explain. ...............
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely,he was quite willing to use the forum to garner support,I think he ought to come on here,update us and comment on Lowdham's excellent response.
> 
> On the face of it the situation looked like a big company treating a customer badly and I must admit I was guilty of thinking that.However having heard both sides it changed my opinion somewhat
> 
> Over to you jandv.
Click to expand...

I did suss that jandv was a member of the Dark side (FUNSTER:?), and there was also a thread running on the subject, Not being a member on there, I am unable to see if the thread is still running and wondered if perhaps some one who does frequent the site could update us

Alan H 
PS I use to be a Funster, but the constant smiling didn't fool anyone, deep down I'm just a miserable old Barsteward


----------



## wakk44

Fatalhud said:


> ...............................deep down I'm just a miserable old Barsteward


And so am I,at least we are honest,freely admit it and don't have to use multiple smileys to prove we are not.

:wav: :wav: :wav:


----------



## javea

The outcome is, as I understand it, that Lowdhams told him that they were going to apply for an injunction against him on Monday at Birmingham Courts. He travelled there to be told that they hadn't done anything about it. He had to return to Lowdham to talk to them about finalising the matter and they have now reduced their offer by £1500.

He is quoted as saying that 'he appreciates the offer', presumably words put into his mouth by Lowdhams, which he is going to accept.

Having heard both sides of the story I think he was very foolish to reject the offer initially ( any dealer who will pay me the original purchaee price after two years would get my business immediately) and Lowdhams could have taken the opportunity to penalise him much more than they have done, all credit to them.

Mike


----------



## Zebedee

gj1023 said:


> unless he comes on here to explain. Gary


We've seen it all before haven't we, many times.

Non-subscriber, with no intention of paying a sub, comes onto this and any other forum he can find and bleats long and loud about how disgracefully he has been treated . . . . . then we hear the other side of the story!

We even had one on here a few years ago who was demanding his money back on a van because it was "*not fit for purpose*". When we heard the truth, it turned out he had chosen a habitation layout that didn't suit him, and nearly a year later he thought he should be refunded in full, and allowed to exchange his van for the one he now preferred.

He tried to make blatant use of the forums to pressurise the poor dealer into capitulating. Can you believe people like that!!

Can you describe them . . . with ladies present!! :lol: :lol:

Dave


----------



## KeithChesterfield

Zebedee - Non-subscriber, with no intention of paying a sub,

He appears to be paying his subs at MHFun!

:bazooka: :bazooka: :bazooka:


----------



## Zebedee

MHFun????

What's that? :lol: :lol:


----------



## Mike48

I recall the story about a man who complained about a dealer charging him for cleaning his van when he brought it in for part exchange. The dealer was condemned by fellow members of MHF.

When we heard the dealer's side the view changed as it transpired the owner had been using the vehicle as a dog kennel with all kind of unmentionables present and that the shower had been used to clean the dogs and the smell was atrocious. The dealer had to spend several days cleaning the van yet only deducted a small sum for the work required. 

I pity the poor so and so who bought that van as smells are very difficult to eradicate permanently but that's another story.


----------



## nicholsong

Well unless the 'complainant' wants to be a subscriber(?) we have probably heard the last of him.

For Lowdhams, I thought their response on here was informative, and I assume the facts were checked out by their legal advisers. Their response was, in general, well recieved on MHF.

I hope that Lowdhams and other Dealers/Manufacturers, have learnt a lesson from these exchanges - that the Members MHF are open to listening to their side of the story and that we are not a 'consumers' lobby' against them.

Geoff


----------



## GEMMY

How about having to be a member, before 1st post complaints

tony


----------



## Spiritofherald

I've only just started reading this thread and am amazed that the customer has not accepted the generous offer. At best he is only entitled to the original purchase price with reduction for wear & tear while he has used the vehicle. If it still had zero miles on the clock then a full refund might be appropriate, but as he's been using the van then he can no longer expect a full refund.


----------



## wobby

Zebedee said:


> MHFun????
> 
> What's that? :lol: :lol:


It's the lot who left here over a row about having to pay a sub!!!!
:roll: :roll:


----------



## Fatalhud

wobby said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> MHFun????
> 
> What's that? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the lot who left here over a row about having to pay a sub!!!!
> :roll: :roll:
Click to expand...

Who then shortly afterwards started charging a higher level of sub than on here :lol: :lol: 
They then gave you 3 days notice of paying up, or booted you out :evil: 
I got BOOTED :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Funsters my Arse :roll: :roll:

Luckily I'm not BITTER :wink: :wink:

Alan H


----------



## erneboy

Spiritofherald said:


> I've only just started reading this thread and am amazed that the customer has not accepted the generous offer. At best he is only entitled to the original purchase price with reduction for wear & tear while he has used the vehicle. If it still had zero miles on the clock then a full refund might be appropriate, but as he's been using the van then he can no longer expect a full refund.


A vehicle can be rejected and a full refund may be appropriate even when it has been used and has a fairly high mileage: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/inpractice/?id=869080

I am not saying this applies in this case, just that it's possible, Alan.


----------



## drcotts

wakk44 said:


> Very interesting to see the dealer's side of the story,it's sometimes not a good idea to jump to conclusions until both sides are heard.It seems like Lowdham have been fair in offering more than jandv paid for the motorhome in 2011.


I think hes very lucky. very lucky indeed. I betcha most other dealers wouldnt have done that. It may be that they had to play their face a bit though but it shows that if its done on a good footing it can work out OK.

I have a feeling that we will see a sorry end to this tale with no one winning.

Phill


----------



## Spiritofherald

erneboy said:


> Spiritofherald said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've only just started reading this thread and am amazed that the customer has not accepted the generous offer. At best he is only entitled to the original purchase price with reduction for wear & tear while he has used the vehicle. If it still had zero miles on the clock then a full refund might be appropriate, but as he's been using the van then he can no longer expect a full refund.
> 
> 
> 
> A vehicle can be rejected and a full refund may be appropriate even when it has been used and has a fairly high mileage: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/inpractice/?id=869080
> 
> I am not saying this applies in this case, just that it's possible, Alan.
Click to expand...

Unless I've missed it that article does not say the guy got a full refund. I'm no legal bod but my understanding is that the seller is entitled to reduce any refund for wear & tear through normal use. I am happy to be corrected if my laymans understanding is incorrect.


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## erneboy

Well rejecting it implies that you want you money back and if successful that's what you get, all of it.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131299-Sale-of-Goods-Act

You can only expect a full refund if you reject within six months: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/

but as the first article said the clock stops while you are negotiating, after having formally told them you intend to reject, and while they attempt repairs if that is what was agreed. You then seem to have a further reasonable time during which to ascertain whether any repair has been successful, Alan.


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## lucylocket

*Lowdams Yorkshire*

Went to Huddersfield one today for help with lighting and fantastic service and gave discount on LED's. Showed me how to fit them & even helped with my rear side light 

Never got that Martins of Exeter hmmmm


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## ChrisandJohn

*Re: Lowdams Yorkshire*



lucylocket said:


> Went to Huddersfield one today for help with lighting and fantastic service and gave discount on LED's. Showed me how to fit them & even helped with my rear side light
> 
> Never got that Martins of Exeter hmmmm


We were there on Saturday. We'd been there about a month ago during the snow for a habitation check and whilst waiting the weather got so bad we wondered if, we'd make it home. Normally with all the facilities in a motorhome you can feel quite smug if you happen to be stuck somewhere but we'd had to remove everything for the check so though we had beds there was no bedding. We discussed this in the shop and one member of staff offered to take us to a local B&B but we ended up buying a sleeping bag, which they said we could return, along with a small pan and water containers which they filled for us. The cafe also was very helpful in supplying us with tea bags and milk.

We managed to get home without problem though so on Saturday we took the sleeping bag back and exchanged it for gas and one or two other things. They were perfectly prepared though to refund the money if we didn't need anything.

So all in all we got very good service.

Chris


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## javea

Doesn't look as though the chap is going to advise the outcome on this site so I will tell you all that he picked up his cheque yesterday and is now going to look out for another motorhome.

Mike


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## Fatalhud

javea said:


> Doesn't look as though the chap is going to advise the outcome on this site so I will tell you all that he picked up his cheque yesterday and is now going to look out for another motorhome.
> 
> Mike


Bet all the other dealers can't wait :wink: :wink: :wink:

Alan H


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## GEMMY

Hope Nuke has his IP No.in the computer. 8) 

tony


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## javea

Fatalhud said:


> javea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't look as though the chap is going to advise the outcome on this site so I will tell you all that he picked up his cheque yesterday and is now going to look out for another motorhome.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Bet all the other dealers can't wait :wink: :wink: :wink:
> 
> Alan H
Click to expand...

Alan, Perhaps we should warn David Fullers ! 

Mike


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## rosalan

Nah! They gave me the lowest offer on my late motorhome. :lol: 

another Alan


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## KeithChesterfield

A new sign has allegedly been spotted outside Lowdhams ......


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## GerryD

Come on... This thread has run it's length. Isn't it time is was killed? It has been proven once again that the OP had no case, just like most of the other shouters.
Gerry


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## ChrisandJohn

GerryD said:


> Come on... This thread has run it's length. Isn't it time is was killed? It has been proven once again that the OP had no case, just like most of the other shouters.
> Gerry


The OP was wakk44.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-137435-days0-orderasc-0.html

Chris


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## Zebedee

Somebody will whinge if the thread is closed - even if nobody had posted for months. :roll:

_(First hand experience from when mods ruled the world.)_

You just can't win, so I doubt if Nuke will close the thread. :roll:

Dave


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## Techno100

The end Fini period! :wink:


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## wakk44

GerryD said:


> Come on... This thread has run it's length. Isn't it time is was killed? It has been proven once again that the OP had no case, just like most of the other shouters.
> Gerry


Not quite the end,I just want to clarify that as the OP I have no axe to grind with Lowdham leisure,I was merely reporting what was happening outside their premises.

As things have turned out Lowdham have come out of this with some credit,I thought their response was excellent and the statement from the MD changed the complexion of this thread completely.

On the other hand our non subscribing member jandv leaves a lot of questions unanswered.He wanted support by posting his grievances with Lowdham on here and yet when the situation has been resolved(I believe he has been compensated)he has not,for whatever reason updated us.

I think the whole thread illustrates that dealers and traders who are getting criticism can successfully come on a public forum and state their case,well done Lowdham leisure and I hope other dealers will follow your lead.(not holding my breath for Brownhills though) :roll:


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## Mike48

Unfortunately there are numerous posters who seek advice and then fail to advise those who have helped them of the outcome. It should be an unwritten rule that posters, as a matter of courtesy, should advise how issues had been resolved.


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## 113016

Mike48 said:


> Unfortunately there are numerous posters who seek advice and then fail to advise those who have helped them of the outcome. It should be an unwritten rule that posters, as a matter of courtesy, should advise how issues had been resolved.


Mike, I have also, in the past posted about feedback, how advice has helped or what was the solution.
As you say, it is courtesy, sadly manners are lacking by some  
All they want is take take and don't give anything in return.
Luckily, most members are givers


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## Zebedee

Yes indeed Mike and Graham.

And wouldn't it be nice if some of the ungrateful sods could be bothered to say, "_Thanks_"!! :roll:

Most of our paid up and established members are pretty good, but when it seems that many non-subscribing first time posters are so ignorant _(not all of them of course, before I get flamed! 8O )_ the "givers" on here could be forgiven for ignoring their requests. The ignorami (_good word, that! _ :lol: ) and whingeing "users" get all first posters a bad name, unfortunately.

Common courtesy cost nothing!

Dave


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## Fatalhud

Zebedee said:


> Yes indeed Mike and Graham.
> 
> And wouldn't it be nice if some of the ungrateful sods could be bothered to say, "_Thanks_"!! :roll:
> 
> Most of our paid up and established members are pretty good, but when it seems that many non-subscribing first time posters are so ignorant _(not all of them of course, before I get flamed! 8O )_ the "givers" on here could be forgiven for ignoring their requests. The ignorami (_good word, that! _ :lol: ) and whingeing "users" get all first posters a bad name, unfortunately.
> 
> Common courtesy cost nothing!
> 
> Dave


"Thank" sent just in case you meant me :lol: :lol: 
Alan H


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## Dill

And me

Dill


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## Stanner

ChrisandJohn said:


> GerryD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Come on... This thread has run it's length. Isn't it time is was killed? It has been proven once again that the OP had no case, just like most of the other shouters.
> Gerry
> 
> 
> 
> The OP was wakk44.
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-137435-days0-orderasc-0.html
> 
> Chris
Click to expand...

Exactly wakk only reported the protest, he wasn't the protester - s/he only posted later to give their rather one-sided view of the dispute.


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## GEMMY

Next time, AND there will be a next time, how about posting such topics in the 'bar'.then the 1st time non subscriber wont be able to join in, and if they post anyway, shove the post into the bar.

tony


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## StAubyns

Off topic, but this does happen and I only remember it because I posted on this short thread, a very helpful reply from Chris at Premier Motorhomes with no return visit/reply from the OP 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1381920.html#1381920


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## rosalan

Dear Tony (sorry Gemmy)
I have only been using MHF for 3 years and have not a clue what you are talking about.... a bar??
Bar as in drink?
Bar as in forbidden?
Bar as in wall bar?
Bar as in an area referred to as 'bar'?

I realise this sounds facetious but quite often 'in house' terms are used which I, who live in this house, do not understand.  

Alan


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## motormouth

Someone (Javea I think) said he/she is a subscriber on "that other" site of which I'm sure folk on here will also subscribe to, though they won't admit it of course :wink:
Why doesn't one of these post on the thread that it would have been courteous to let all forums know the outcome where help and advice was given.


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## GEMMY

It's been sanitised............now called the 'Subscribers Lounge' :roll: 

I think Nuke chose Lounge instead of Bar (only 5 years use) to try to calm people down. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

tony


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## drmjclark

*Poor Lowdhams service*

Well on this thread I have now been waiting 7 years since buying my carthago Motorhome for my replacement lounge table.

It was warped and poorly fitting at purchase and ian brown form Lowdhams has agreed its replacement .

After a lengthy discussion a couple of years ago some major suspension faults were rectified on my van and the table had , yet again , been ordered.

Again now I am still waiting for it , I have rung ian brown , left two messages for him and several emails. All to no avail .. My Carthago is very big and I suspect will fill the entrance to their dealership quite nicely as well.

Be nice if I didn't have to resort to that though, sort yourselves out Lowdhams . Product fabulous, aftercare ..... Dire.


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## StAubyns

I have a Dethleffs Eurostyle that was purchased from Lowdhams in July 2006. After 7 years nothing has gone wrong  

Last year I damaged a door and the bathroom sink and ordered spares from Lowdhams. I received them 3 weeks later.  

Yes, I was paying for the parts, but it was very good service


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## 113016

Similarly, most slag off browfools, but we found the service we received from the parts department at the old Cannock branch, to be very good.
Also a water pump was replaced under warranty and we just called in with no appointment!
But the Sales Staff are a different thing!
You must speak as you find and not jump onto the popular band wagon!


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## Zebedee

Grath said:


> You must speak as you find and not jump onto the popular band wagon!


Don't be silly Graham . . . this is MHF! 8O :lol: :lol:


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## rayc

wakk44 said:


> On the other hand our non subscribing member jandv leaves a lot of questions unanswered.He wanted support by posting his grievances with Lowdham on here and yet when the situation has been resolved(I believe he has been compensated)he has not,for whatever reason updated us.


What did happen to milliemason after her dispute with Marquis was 'resolved'? 
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-130918-days0-orderasc-350.html


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## Zebedee

Will we ever know Ray?

*Some *members (_often new and non-subscribing_) just come onto MHF *to make use of it* for what they can get from the forum and its ever helpful members.

Then they bu$$er off without so much as a word of thanks and we never hear from them again . . . unless they have another problem! :roll:

It amazes me that so many of our members remain willing to give their time helping such people, after the ingratitude shown by too many of them.

Must try not to judge them all however, by the standards of the self centred ignorami! 

Dave


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## olley

Hi guys it was all sorted, here's two posts they put on another forum.

05-03-13
_as far as i know lowdhams md told me tonight that they are holding off with the injuction as i taking the van in on thursday morning after accepting £33500 i am taking all the extras off myself and giving it a good clean inside and out

07-03-13
just to let everyone know I took my van back to lowdhams today and picked up my cheque so I would like to thank everybody on here for all your comments I am now looking for my next van and look forward to getting back on the road. so thanks once again John_

The cheque was I believe for near enough the full price he paid for the vehicle.

Ian


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## GEMMY

Dealers BEWARE 8) 

tony


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## chiefwigwam

Zebedee said:


> Will we ever know Ray?
> 
> *Some *members (_often new and non-subscribing_) just come onto MHF *to make use of it* for what they can get from the forum and its ever helpful members.
> 
> Then they bu$$er off without so much as a word of thanks and we never hear from them again . . . unless they have another problem! :roll:
> 
> It amazes me that so many of our members remain willing to give their time helping such people, after the ingratitude shown by too many of them.
> 
> Must try not to judge them all however, by the standards of the self centred ignorami!
> 
> Dave


Dave maybe they are busy and don't have time to spend all day looking at the same old posts? Some of us are not yet retired you know and must work on to pay for the older population so they can buy themselves cardigans


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## GEMMY

Keep working Chief, my cardie's got holes in the elbows

tony


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## Foglet

*Problem with Lowdhams...*

Hi all, I have to confess I'm new to this forum. Having typed 'Lowdhams complaints' in to Google, this is where it led me to and I'm hoping that some of you might be able to give me some advice as having followed the normal routes of raising a complaint with Lowdhams I've reached the conclusion that they quite frankly don't give a damn.

We rented a motor home last summer through McRent at Lowdhams Nottingham, paying around £1700 for 2 weeks rental plus a further £1000 deposit. While we were away in the motor home another driver caused very minor damage to the WC cassette, clipping it with their wing mirror - I'd be more than happy to share images of this damage to share how minor it is. We expected to be charged a reasonable amount for the repairs but when we returned the motor home at the end of our holiday Lowdhams withheld the full £1000 deposit. They have also subsequently confirmed that the repairs haven't even been carried out so the money has gone straight in to their greedy pockets. We've obtained an independent quote that states the full repairs can be completed for less than £300. Lowdhams now refuse to give me any further information about the actual cost of the repairs and in their eyes the matter is closed.

Other than turn up at their premises and block the entrance like this person did I'm not sure what else to do?


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