# How can we get the 5 van site ruling changed?



## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Now that caravanning and motorhoming seems to be increasing, it is becoming more difficult to find vacant pitches on the more popular CLs and CSs.
How about a concerted effort to get the ruling changed which limits such sites to only 5 vans. At this time of a credit crunch it would surely help site owners as well as us.
I suppose that the best approach is via the main clubs such as the Caravan Club and the Camping and Caravanning Club. (If they are interested). They would then have to lobby Parliament. It has got to be good for the Country as we are spending our holiday money here!


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Hi

I wouldn't change anything, I like them just the way they are. I dont generaly use the main site because they are to busy for us, so the cl's & cs's are just perfect.

steve


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

I agree with Steve, wouldn't change a thing. However it would have the same effect if the two clubs just increased the number of CL's and CS's


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Sorry but you wouldn't get my vote - I like them just the way they are.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

You can always just ask a farmer that isnt a CL site if you could stay in a field for a night and they might let you.
We have done that and have had a pleasent stay and they love your Company.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

I agree, the 5 van limit is good. nice a peaceful 

Karl


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

what number would you increase it to? 7, 10?

I would like to see more CL/ Cs's , especially in or near towns / villages, rather than at remote farms.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I agree 5 vans is nice but some could easy handel 7 or 8 vans


Richard...


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I agree with BognorMike, more of the same, but a limit of 5 vans on each is good.

There is a way round it, and we have seen it in action, but I'm not sure it's wise to broadcast it on an open forum.

Sorry - my sips are lealed! 8O  

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Just tried to book a couple of cc sites mid to end may.

The weekenders really screw it up , especialy if they don`t showw.
Will try a few cl`s

Dave P


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> The weekenders really screw it up , especialy if they don`t show.
> Dave P


That's the one big gripe I have with the club Dave, and the subject of several threads on here.

Until they (the management) recognise and address this, I think all we can do is send them regular emails of complaint - not that they even bother to reply most of the time. 8O :evil:

Dave


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> I agree with BognorMike, more of the same, but a limit of 5 vans on each is good.
> 
> There is a way round it, and we have seen it in action, but I'm not sure it's wise to broadcast it on an open forum.
> 
> ...


Don't you just hate folk that tell half a story :lol: :wink:


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

For good reason on this subject though  


Richard...


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Briarose said:


> [Don't you just hate folk that tell half a story :lol: :wink:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's not that difficult to work out Nette. 

Put yourself in the farmer's position, then think what you would do if friends of the family wanted to stay.

Dave


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## namder (Sep 20, 2006)

In my experience, few of the owners stick to the 5 van rule or the membership requirement.

John


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Quote--In my experience, few of the owners stick to the 5 van rule or the membership requirement.

In my experience they do stick to the rules otherwise they lose their licence.
The Clubs do carry out checks.

I agree with those who enjoy the present set up, so do I! But it is frustrating not being able to find a vacant pitch. Many of those sites have the capacity to take eight.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

rowley said:


> In my experience they do stick to the rules otherwise they lose their licence.


You're spot on there Rowley.

Natural England have now taken over from DEFRA on the licensing of 5 van sites and the issue of all the other camping exemption certificates. They're now looking much more closely at applications and nothing is going through "on the nod" any more. They're also concerned at current abuses of the system so it logically follows that the clubs who issue and police the "5 van" permissions are likely to become far more vigilant. It's always an option for CL/CS owners to apply for planning permission if they want to increase the number of vans on site, in practical terms very few would ever succeed.

Surely the best solution is to increase the number of 5 van locations rather than increase the number of vans on each site? I think that's what we should lobby the clubs for - more CL/CS sites.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

The whole thing that attracts me to CL's/CS's is to get away from it all for a bit of peace and quiet and not be crammed in, upping the numbers per CL has the potential to spoil this and could be the thin end of the wedge if it were ever granted. Can't see it ever happening though.

Kens right, far better to have more CL's than more 'on' CL's.

Pete


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

namder said:


> In my experience, few of the owners stick to the 5 van rule or the membership requirement.
> 
> John


In my experience too.


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## Bubblehead (Mar 5, 2007)

Dave

Why does this screw things up, many people have to work during the week.



DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Just tried to book a couple of cc sites mid to end may.
> 
> The weekenders really screw it up , especialy if they don`t showw.
> Will try a few cl`s
> ...


I tried to book a site in Dorset the other week for the late May bank holiday, was told that there is a 5 day minimum 8O

Whats that all about -Greed?

Andy


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## namder (Sep 20, 2006)

> In my experience they do stick to the rules otherwise they lose their licence.
> The Clubs do carry out checks.


On the 20 or so CS's that I have used in the last three years I have only ever been asked if I am a member twice and asked to produce my membership card once. Where I have camped at peak times I have usually noticed more than five units and nearly always noticed more than five EHU's. I stayed at one CS last August bank holiday and there must have been 100+ units(only one toilet and shower though).
John


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

I would vehemently oppose any attempt to increase the number of units on a site. 5 is plenty and it gives the charm to these small sites that so many of us enjoy. By all means encourage more people to use their spare acreage as CL's but please don't let the small sites be changed!

If sites are over-populated, we as members of the 2 organisations are encouraged to report these breaches so that they do not fall foul of the planning restrictions and it is our duty to do so.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Something that has come to me tonight is.
If you cant get on a CL then carry your Camping and Caravan Out and About with you.
There are all those great Holiday Rallies, where you dont have to book, just turn up for 1 night or a month.
They are always by a village or town.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

From what I've seen quite a few CL:/CS owners have a "commercial" (so-called) site right next to the official "CL". 

So if the area covering the "5 van" part is full, customers just go next to it on the "commercial" site. Same facilities and often same price.

Not sure if it's legal but it's done :wink:


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## OldWomble (Jul 6, 2008)

locovan said:


> Something that has come to me tonight is.
> If you cant get on a CL then carry your Camping and Caravan Out and About with you.
> There are all those great Holiday Rallies, where you dont have to book, just turn up for 1 night or a month.
> They are always by a village or town.


Arrrrg Now you've let the cat out of the bag....


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

OldWomble said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > Something that has come to me tonight is.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: But there always are plenty of room on these sites.
Sorry :lol: :lol:


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

MrsW said:


> I would vehemently oppose any attempt to increase the number of units on a site. 5 is plenty and it gives the charm to these small sites that so many of us enjoy. By all means encourage more people to use their spare acreage as CL's but please don't let the small sites be changed!
> 
> If sites are over-populated, we as members of the 2 organisations are encouraged to report these breaches so that they do not fall foul of the planning restrictions and it is our duty to do so.


have you got a link as im intrigued that we are encouraged to act as spys.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

I have always considered grassing on breaches of the 5 rule a bit petty minded and miserly. Typical CC mentality.

I have sometimes been accepted as the 6th or 7thg unit. It has always been at bank holiday time when it is getting late in the day. 

I have always thought the owner/farmer should be given a bit of flexibility. A lot of thes sites are full of 5 tuggers for the weekend only, all booked in advance. I would have thought this type of occupancy would render the site unviable. 

Personally, I always look for CLs without hook-ups. They tend to frighten off the caravans.


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## solentviews (May 9, 2005)

I always thought the 5 van rule was that they did not need planning permission and anything over that planning was required, however, I was at a site recently that was to be inpected by the C & CC and there were many more vans than 5. the owner said if there was a problem he would stay private and assumingly get planning permission. I will not list the site to protect the innocent or guilty however you look at it.
Ian


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I too would not like to see an increase especially for the reasons put forward and agree it is better to increase the numbers of CLs and CSs. BUT, in the last few years many owners have found costs are outweighing income and we have lost many 5 van sites over the years. I would support an increase if it resulted in increased site viability which in turn should lead to more sites and better facilities for the motorhomer e.g. more hard standings and open all year.

peedee


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

I have just found this info it explains it is an Act of parliament
so to get more than 5 you would have to get that act changed

*Become a Certificated Location*
The Caravan Club has a network of some 2,500 informal 5-van sites, for the exclusive use of Caravan Club members. With Certificated Locations (CL's) becoming increasingly popular with members (with a third of them already using CLs as their favourite type of site), the Caravan Club welcomes applications from prospective CL owners, and will help and guide you through the application process. To find out more look at the Landowners Leaflet (pdf opens in a new window 245kb).

What is a CL? 
Each year we issue a certificate to those sites which continue to meet our standards and for this reason we call them CL's. They are covered by a special Act of Parliament and need no site licence or formal planning permission. They can be on a farm or smallholding, at a pub or golf course, even on land attached to your house.

What are the advantages of running a CL?
Make income from an otherwise unproductive plot of land 
Set and retain all the income from pitch fees 
Planning permission is not required 
Free listing in the Caravan Club Sites Directory and Handbook and on website 
Attract a new market for your produce or facilities 
The opportunity to meet fresh faces and make new friends 
How to become a CL 
If, after reading the Landowners Leaflet (pdf opens in a new window 245kb) and Becoming a CL - the requirements (opens in a new window), you are interested in becoming a CL, please download the Enquiry Letter (pdf opens in a new window 31kb) and complete the Application Form (pdf opens in a new window 184kb) . Please forward this to the CLs department, who can also be contacted on 01342 336 792.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

krull said:


> Personally, I always look for CLs without hook-ups. They tend to frighten off the caravans.


??????????????
Why would that be? a caravan is no more dependant on a hook-up that a Motorhome. Look at rallies, there are more caravans than motorhomes and not a hook-up between them.
Why are so many people on here so vitriolic towards caravanners? Face facts, without caravanners there would be no CLs or CSs, there would be no Caravan Club and there would probably be no motorhome industry as we know it. Nearly all motorhome manufacturers in Europe have their routes in caravan manufacture.
Stop bleating about caravanners, you need them. If the CLs and CSs had to rely on motorhomers they would shut down due to insufficient demand.
Gerry


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## tomnjune (May 1, 2005)

at the end of the day it still boils down to one thing its getting harder and harder to find a pitch //// TOMNJUNE


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Many of you will be pleased at this reply from the Caravan Club.
Hello



Thank you for your e mail. I understand your frustration on only allowing 5 caravans on CLs.



As the permission for the Club to grant the exemption certificate is due to the 1960’ Act of Parliament Caravan control and Development. It is not the Club’s decision. It is extremely unlikely that it would ever be granted, added to the fact that only 5 units are allowed per CL is the attraction to most members in the first place.



There are nearly 2,500 CLs on our network and I know that many are never fully booked. We are however always on the look out for new CLs to approve.



Kind regards


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