# Have I got a collectors piece...



## 128893 (Oct 20, 2009)

This was paisted from a VW California forum and being a Cali owner makes interesting reading. It was prompted by a visit to the NEC and an absence of the California at the show........................

I agree - the show this year was poor, either desperate caravan stands trying to unload last year's left over’s on finance, overpriced big motorhomes (Niesmann and Bischoff/Burstner/IH etc) seriously affected by the £/Euro rate, or shoddy VW conversions. I hope no-one takes offence at this comment but why on earth would anyone buy a B+Q/Homebase conversion for mid £30k's when a California starts at £37 ish ?. As someone whose whole life at the moment is affected by the exchange rate being in the 1.06 territory with no prospect of recovery buying a California at anything discounted or near to the price of the last year or so has to be the bargain of the century. VW must be blowing their brains out and making a loss on any California they sell, in which case for us owners the less they sell the better. It will help to support the values of those that are already in the UK, and the new model while being a bit kinder on CO2 is not a 5 cylinder 174 (if it's the 4 cylinder Audi engine I think it is it'll be like a tractor compared to the 5 pot). Is it surprising they aren't promoting it ? Not at all. It wouldn't surprise me if the new 5.2 California is actually not imported to the UK, the maths don't work. I also don't believe any converters are going to be able to make the numbers stack on importing the Kombi base.....suspect many of the VW conversions on the new van will be £40k plus in the New Year.
There should be some comfort for us current owners that when we bought it was a rare product but we bought into a very very exclusive club, just ran back my old spreadsheet from when we bought ours at 1.4 Euro to £ and at the current exchange rate it would be a mind altering £49,588 !!!!! At the time I couldn't reconcile that a Caravelle 174 was only £4000 less than a California, so either they were making a fortune on Velles or we have all had a result !

Anyone out there who would pay £50k to replace their Cali please put your hand up ? !! - Or shall we just stick with (what could be) the collectors items that we have already !? Allegedly there are under 500 RHD Californias in the UK, if the Euro goes 1=1 with the pound there might not be many more......at that rate a new 180 with a few toys could well be £52,500 - would you ?

Apart from funding the cost the California is probably one of the slowest depreciating vehicles you can buy, so the less that VW sell moving forward the better for all of us.....

I thank you..

After that rant I need to put the heater on, it's freezin - Monday night in a California ? No not on holiday regrettably....


----------



## boxertwin69 (Apr 18, 2009)

Interesting point of view. One could be forgiven for thinking there may be a bit of snobbery at work here :roll: Personally I can't understand why anybody would pay £37k plus for a California (£40k for a decent spec)when a perfectly good conversion with a matching spec done by a reputable company can be had for almost half that! £37k plus for a converted delivery van is ludicrous if you ask me 8O 

Granted, the California is a nice vehicle, but not worth the premium over what are perceived to be lesser vehicles IMO. Its desirability ensures good residual values, but in percentage terms I'm not sure it achieves much more than other models. All camper vans hold their money well.

My mint 18mth old T5 with 10k miles cost just £10k(!) plus a further 10k to convert to a top spec 4 berth with pop top roof & cassette toilet, hob + grill etc etc. The workmanship (by Leisuredrive) is superb.

Each to their own, but bear in mind I now have a comparable vehicle plus a theoretical £17-20k to spend on holidays!

Mark


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

e145hp said:


> This was paisted from a VW California forum and being a Cali owner makes interesting reading. It was prompted by a visit to the NEC and an absence of the California at the show........................
> 
> I agree - the show this year was poor, either desperate caravan stands trying to unload last year's left over's on finance, overpriced big motorhomes (Niesmann and Bischoff/Burstner/IH etc) seriously affected by the £/Euro rate, or shoddy VW conversions. I hope no-one takes offence at this comment but why on earth would anyone buy a B+Q/Homebase conversion for mid £30k's when a California starts at £37 ish ?. As someone whose whole life at the moment is affected by the exchange rate being in the 1.06 territory with no prospect of recovery buying a California at anything discounted or near to the price of the last year or so has to be the bargain of the century. VW must be blowing their brains out and making a loss on any California they sell, in which case for us owners the less they sell the better. It will help to support the values of those that are already in the UK, and the new model while being a bit kinder on CO2 is not a 5 cylinder 174 (if it's the 4 cylinder Audi engine I think it is it'll be like a tractor compared to the 5 pot). Is it surprising they aren't promoting it ? Not at all. It wouldn't surprise me if the new 5.2 California is actually not imported to the UK, the maths don't work. I also don't believe any converters are going to be able to make the numbers stack on importing the Kombi base.....suspect many of the VW conversions on the new van will be £40k plus in the New Year.
> There should be some comfort for us current owners that when we bought it was a rare product but we bought into a very very exclusive club, just ran back my old spreadsheet from when we bought ours at 1.4 Euro to £ and at the current exchange rate it would be a mind altering £49,588 !!!!! At the time I couldn't reconcile that a Caravelle 174 was only £4000 less than a California, so either they were making a fortune on Velles or we have all had a result !
> ...


Whoever wrote that tripe needs a soapbox and a spot on Hyde Park corner ! Or perhaps a seat in the house of commons :roll:


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Or, you could buy a REAL California by Westfalia on a T4! The last special editions from 2003 go for about £19K tops. And you get LHD thrown in.  That's what I call a proper bargain compared with the VW in-house "California" on the T5! Eventually T4s will be seen as classics even by the aircooled dub/hippy lot. 

I do agree that the 2 litre 4 pot diesel on the facelifted T5 sounds like a backward step.  


SD


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

SpeedyDux said:


> I do agree that the 2 litre 4 pot diesel on the facelifted T5 sounds like a backward step.
> 
> SD


One of my friends who is a VW technician wouldn't agree - from what he says the 5 pot has an awful reputation and they are glad to see the back of it.


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

My friends daughter and boyfiriend jointly bought a second hand VW camper(Has George Bush anything to do with these?) having read how they hold there price and the popularity of them.

This year as they had not the necessary insurance, they had to buy a tent and live on a campsite while a new engine and gearbox was ordered by a French garage. No news by the time their holiday ended so they paid to have it transported back home.

They have now got rid of it. However, the point of this post is that the French who actually could speak English told them that in their experience these were a load of trouble and really only good for DIY enthusiasts.


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Pusser, I'm assuming that was an old splitty or bay window VW camper, in which case no-one should be surprised that it broke down. Catching fire is also a common hazard it seems. All part of the classic VW fun experience.

These classic VWs are best left to the weld-and-polish dub enthusiasts IMHO.

SD


----------



## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

VW conversions have ALWAYS been expensive - even from the dawn of motorcaravanning - that is why the British converters flourished in the early days. VW would not allow anyone who was not 'accredited' to convert their vehicles (citing safety issues!!) - which is why Bedfords, Fords and Austins/Morrisses and Commers became so popular over here.

In Europe in the 60's and early 70's, if you wanted a motorhome your choice was limited to VW (unless you forked out for a spec coachbuilt). It was the success of British coachbuilders that spurred on the Europeans to build their own.......

Personally, I cannot see the attraction - even of modern VW's (unless maybe you are single) - there just isnt the room........

regards
Carl


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Carl, 

The VW is a great van for days out and supermarket expeditions. It fits in a standard car parking space. The neighbours haven't objected to it either.

Ours has also taken us on several holiday trips to South West France and the Italian Lakes lasting up to 3 weeks; It has been very comfy for camping and sleeping, with enough room for 2 adults and all the clothes and outdoor stuff we bring with us (and mostly didn't use). All it lacks is a built-in cassette loo.


SD


----------



## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Sorry SD - dont get me wrong....

I wasnt 'rubbishing' the VW as a whole - just that it isnt for me!!!!

I do wonder sometimes how they can justify the 'premium' on the price over other makes (however, this has been the case since the dawn of the hobby!!).

Those that I have looked at have been well converted - and I am sure they are ideal for some.......maybe the last line of my post could have been written better :? .

humbly
Carl


----------



## boxertwin69 (Apr 18, 2009)

SpeedyDux said:


> All it lacks is a built-in cassette loo


Mine's got one in the rear offside corner! (Leisuredrive plan A layout). Agree with you 100% - the reason I chose the T5 is because I needed an every day driver that would double as a mini motorhome. Suits our family of four perfectly.

Mark

Ps I opted for the 1.9 engine after hearing so many horror stories about the 2.5. Volvo dropped it from their early V70's & brought in the D5 - it just wasn't up to the job.


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

No worries Carl. I don't know what came over me. SWMBO would prefer a coachbuilt but I am veering towards a slightly bigger VW conversion like the Westy California Exclusive, or maybe a Big Nugget transit conversion (when they come on the SH market). :roll: 


SY


----------



## 128893 (Oct 20, 2009)

Stanner said:


> One of my friends who is a VW technician wouldn't agree - from what he says the 5 pot has an awful reputation and they are glad to see the back of it.


Hi Stanner I'm not sure who your VW tech works for but he sounds like a bit of a Walter mitty. The reality is that the T4 and T5are the choice of taxi owners who cover huge mileage and loads of town driving each year. They are their van of choice for one reason only. How many Fiats do you see as taxi's maybe zero I think. 
T5 campers are under used so if looked after they should last forever. 
Bad engine oil management is the only thing that could result in problems but sensible owners use the correct oil at the correct intervals. 
So Stanner perhaps you could elaborate on your Walter mitties views it should make interesting reading.
Compare all this with the judder gate posts on here alone and it will confirm just how good the 5 pot unit is. My 174bhp will knock spots off of most other commercial base units on power refinement and reliability. Will look forward to Walters's comments.
Just in case you don't believe me, I have left a link that will put you in touch with informed people a number of which are taxi owners. Be my guest.
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/late-model-t5-problems-still-exist_topic44222.html

One last point on the California conversion being expensive.
I have been following the post regarding the NEC show on here this week.
Someone has just parted with £90,000 for a basic Fiat based conversion. It take all kinds dont it.


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

e145hp said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > One of my friends who is a VW technician wouldn't agree - from what he says the 5 pot has an awful reputation and they are glad to see the back of it.
> ...


I'm simply passing on what he says and he's one of the top techies at the local dealer.

I've no idea how/where Fiat come into this, but the Scudo
http://www.usedcarmart.co.uk/7_seat...51_plate_2001_top_of_the_range-o43281-en.html
is a very popular taxi base unit all over the country and I've seen far more of those about than I have T4/5s.

I'm pleased you are happy with yours, but perhaps some of these folk are his customers.
http://www.roadtestreports.co.uk/road-test-reports/Volkswagen/Transporter/

I also seem to recall reading somewhere that the AA have now given up on Transporters.


----------



## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

i drink with a aa man, and he recenltly had a vauaxhall van, he was told that the aa dropped vw as the t5 was too exspensive and too unreliable. my brother has a 55 plate california and imo it is the most overhyped exspensive builders van going, even with the 4x4 drive. he loves it but he wouldnt dream of camping in it as its to small!!


----------



## Hampshireman (Apr 18, 2007)

Our 98 1.9 T4 ex delivery van from LeisureDrive serves well as a camper ( Spain, Italy and France, plus UK ) so far and also an everyday vehicle for me. No loo, but we manage on campsites of course.

Engine lags on a hill when loaded and a bit of a pain in that way but I cope. It was all we could afford. I would like to update in spec and covet a neighbour's T5 05, but have never been in one or tried one therefore not aware of pit falls, but they do seem expensive.

Ours was fitted out by a "carpenter" friend of the previous owner who bought the L/Drive conversion. Not half as good as the original Westy fitting in our prev T2 Bay of course. Light weight veneered panels and boards make up the furniture, but it's all there and works apart from the sliding bed, which was a bodged joke which I replaced three years ago with a R&R. Not enough DIY skills to try to upgrade the rest of it, so we soldier on as it were.


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Stanner, thanks for that test report link. I have seen various posts on VW forums by T5 owners confirming that the T5s can be either great or really dire (pot luck) with posters wishing they had stuck with their previous T4.

In the days when I owned a VW Golf Mark 2, I came to realise VW's reputation for reliability was a myth. That Golf needed all sorts of unexpected replacement bits despite regular servicing and low mileage. It was nice to drive between AA call-outs. Yet the Mark 2 Golf was reckoned to be the best made Golf ever. My current Vauxhall Vectra is 9 years old and its reliability and build quality is streets ahead of that Golf. 

Our Westy's T4 Transporter base vehicle has been reliable so far (touch wood) only needing normal servicing and replacement battery, tyres, exhaust and brakes. The VW trim hasn't been as robust as one might expect for a commercial van. Plastic handles and knobs are too brittle and break very easily. The quality of VW's paintwork is questionable. The door card for the sliding door has come off its plastic fixings and now needs refitting to stop it rattling because it spoils an otherwise rattle-free conversion.

SD


----------



## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

SpeedyDux said:


> Stanner, thanks for that test report link. I have seen various posts on VW forums by T5 owners confirming that the T5s can be either great or really dire (pot luck) with posters wishing they had stuck with their previous T4.
> 
> In the days when I owned a VW Golf Mark 2, I came to realise VW's reputation for reliability was a myth. That Golf needed all sorts of unexpected replacement bits despite regular servicing and low mileage. It was nice to drive between AA call-outs. Yet the Mark 2 Golf was reckoned to be the best made Golf ever. My current Vauxhall Vectra is 9 years old and its reliability and build quality is streets ahead of that Golf.
> 
> ...


It could be why so many ex-VW owners now have Mazda Bongos.

I used to mystery shop (vehicle servicing) for a "well known German car maker" (I'm not allowed to say which one :wink: ) and it cured me of ever wanting one.


----------

