# MHF 2010 Morocco Tour - Footsteps of Moors / Wedding



## nukeadmin

I have added a dedicated section for next years Morocco Tour

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=MoroccoTour

I will be adding more info as and when it becomes available, when I do so I will update this thread so if you are interested put this thread on watch (Click the "Watch this thread for replies" link bottom right of the page


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## Detourer

Just an up-date……In case of confusion.

Dave has now posted the full itinerary for the "Footstep of Moors - Wedding" MHFacts tour…….Via the link and "sticky" up top.

There was an initial delay and a subsequent big change because after the original tour was announced one of our full time Moroccan staff, Hammid, sprang a surprise on us…..His wedding, offering a incredibly unique and very exciting addition to the tour. Never to be repeated, unless the silly boy takes up the traditional 4 wives option………in which case we can work our way through all our Moroccan staff and re-run the "Wedding" for the next 20 years……a joke!

Those of you who received the original itinerary and/or expressed an interest need to take another look……and thanks to the 6 who have already booked.

Any questions via [email protected] [with phone number and I will call back], or here.

Ray

..


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## Detourer

A question asked……..

Will "The Wedding" part of the tour in Morocco be a formal event with dress code?

No. I believe the "wedding" celebrations will consist of a number [5 I think] of events spread over 3 or 4 days and you can attend all or none. A couple will be during the day, others will run into the night. There is no dress code as such but I would suggest light/cool casual [not shorts].

Music, food and entertainment will of course be Moroccan but there will be a Moroccan/Brit celebration, given the long standing connection Hammid and his family [and Meski] has with ourselves.

Expect the food to be something special……Mahammid, father of Hammid, owns the Restaurant in Meski ……!

Ray


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## Inca

*Morrocan Adventure*

Hi,

I am seriously thinking about signing up for this adventure but have a few concerns that other past adventurers might be able to answer.
1. Is my Autosleeper 2.8Hdi INCA EK suitable?
2. If so, what condition could I expect it to be in on completion?
What do you think?

Ian


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## Superk

Hi Ian

I think you'll be fine and surprised just how many motorhomes there are in Morocco. It's definitely worth the trip.

Make sure your vehicle has a good service and check over before you go - if you've been putting anything off get it done. Make sure that anything that was loose or could come loose isn't and won't.

The road surfaces vary and can spring surprises - very good to an immediate deterioration to a potholed unsurfaced section. In parts and I'm thinking Marakkesh to the Coast there can be busy roads where the tarmac has worn away at the edges leaving only a central section - trucks coming at you at high speed will unrelentingly occupy the central section forcing you off to the unmade side of the road.

If Ray takes you to Erg Chebbi you are 'off piste' on some hard rutted surfaces - judging the correct speed to smooth these out is an art.

Ray has been running motorhoming trips in Morocco and Africa for around 20 years he's not going to take you into unreasonable places and one of the benefits of going with him is that he has the vehicle that can get you out and all the local contacts.

So I hope I haven't put you off because you'll be just fine and have a memorable trip.

 
Keith


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## Detourer

Hi Keith

Thanks for the endorsement……..and just to confirm.

Morocco is undergoing a huge infostructure programme at the moment that includes the road network. Most problems that may be encountered will be short diversions along the side of road works. In general the roads are better than those in Spain and I suspect the UK!

Worst sections have been between Ouazzane and Mecknes [5k] and as Keith said the Marrakech to Essaouira [12k] both were due to extensive road works that have now been completed.

Neither of the above applies to this MHFacts tour.

Winter and floods do create potholes and some subsidence but sensible speeds mean these will not present a problem, it is stray animals and day-dreaming kids that you need to be aware of…..

You will see that the main Moroccan section of the MHFacts tour is a 175+ k spectacular crossing of the High Atlas via a 6500ft pass. I recce'd the route a few weeks ago and can confirm it is newly surfaced, graded and presents NO problems. Meeting any other vehicles on that section will be unlikley [but not a problem]……You may get a refund if we see another motorhome!

As Keith said…..do any outstanding jobs and service on your motorhome.

But no worries, it's not a raid or rally!

Ray


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## navman

*Re: Morrocan Adventure*



Inca said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am seriously thinking about signing up for this adventure but have a few concerns that other past adventurers might be able to answer.
> 1. Is my Autosleeper 2.8Hdi INCA EK suitable?
> 2. If so, what condition could I expect it to be in on completion?
> What do you think?
> 
> Ian


just to back up what has already been stated... We did a trip with Ray in April. We have a 1999 Hymer.

I arranged for a vehicle service before going and had the fridge serviced too ( we had a problem with it that needed fixing). We had no problems what so ever.

As for the trip and Ray and his team. I can say no more other than we will be going with him again. The pace was just right for us and we had a fantastic time as did Chloe and Amy aged 6 and 9... they are still talking about it 4 months later.

You can read our blog Here and see some of our thousands of photos here

I guess all am saying, and Ray know I love to talk, is... go for it.


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## Detourer

.....A question asked………."clarification regarding suitable vehicles"

I asked that owners of larger Motorhomes contact ourselves before booking onto the tour because………

The middle section where we cross the High Atlas is NOT suitable for the very largest of euro Motorhomes, RV's or CCCCaravans.

This is because there is a section, a few miles long and at around 6500ft, that has a few "back-on-yourself" uphill bends……that some will/may have to "Shunt" around. There then follows, as you crest the peak, a solid rock overhang……..a few inch clearance for the Unimog Support Truck but anything taller [there will not be] would not get under.

Sounds "Dramatic" and it is…….Unbelievable and breathtaking views……Berber village, volcanic lake and more.

The road, although not mapped, is surfaced, wide and SAFE…….

Ray

….


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## hautemetairie

*Wedding tour Morocco*

As you know we are doing the "Discovery" tour with you in a few weeks [second tour], are we crossing the Atlas there? Sounds great


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## Detourer

Hi hautemetairie [Tony and Gill]

Sorry I didn't answer sooner…….short visit to Morocco and busy weekend……Now I think you are "On the Road" working your way down to us……

Yes, that crossing of the High Atlas has been "lifted" from just one section of our new "Discovery" tour, that you are on in a few weeks……..Interestingly we may also catch a wedding our two on your trip, although entirely different that "our" wedding next year. It is not easy to link with The Imilchil Marriage Festival exactly, as they do switch dates now and then, but we may catch it as we pass……..As I am going through a few moments of boredom ………

Every September, the surrounding tribes, Aït Sokham and Aït Bouguemmaz celebrate the Imilchil Marriage Moussem [Festival], held in Souk Aam and Agdoud N'Oulmghenni. This festival, also known as the "September Romance", features the Aït Yaazza [Mountain Berber] culture of an annual collective marriage where women search and choose their husband.

The fiancé' part of the festival is staged on the site of the tomb of the Saint/Oldman, who is venerated in this area of the High Atlas. It is a truly assume sight to see well over 30,000 tribesmen/women from the mountains assemble under tents for three days, with their flocks, their horses and camels. The smell and sounds from the impromptu souk, the music and dancing and the overwhelming welcoming of visitors who have made the "secret" journey……is…..I'm lost for words! For me, when I have visited, it's the sight of the surrounding hills and mountains sides, looking like star filled skies from hundreds of small campfires burning into the night that is most moving.

The Moussem is when young girls to dress up and wear their finery, their sumptuous silver jewelry, and dance and parade for endless hours. Divorced or widowed women are in the majority and can be identified by their pointed headdress and face tatoo's. Men are usually assisted by a friend in choosing a bride and overcoming any shyness….you know what men are like! Traditionally, a nod and a wink is the unspoken language between men and women at the festival to show interest. Once they receive a gesture from a female, and if they agree, they may hold hands to show intent. However, letting go of ones hand signals rejection.

If a girl says the magic phrase, "You have captured my liver or my liver pines for you", it means that she has found her love. The liver, not the heart, is considered the location of true love because in Berber culture it is believed that a healthy liver aids digestion and promotes well-being.

If there is consent on both ends, the couple meets with their families in a tent whereby questions are prompted and discussion is carried on over warm mint tea. Later, the marriage will be arranged more seriously in the couple's home village. For the young men and girls of the area, it was a tradition to get married on the day of the Moussem in ancient times, a holy man used to bless the betrothed at Agdoul. But those knowledgeable about the festival know that there are actually no real weddings performed at the event anymore [but who really knows], rather it is a way to pay tribute to a bittersweet Moroccan legend ………….A very sad legend…

..


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## oldtart

Hi Ray
Wow!!! Like hautemetairie we shall be joining you soon for the 'Discovery ' tour. Like kids we are counting off the days till we set off on the 1st. September. For us it's our third time with Desert detours.

The last one in October '08 was fantastic. I think Chefchauen and the meal you arranged for the group in the riad at Meknes were my favourites. and then, of course there ws the overnight camel trek at Erb Chebbi to see the sunset.

Thanks Ray, and Debbie. Really looking forward to another super tour.

I wonder what surprises you have in store for us this time!


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## oldtart

HI ray
Just read my message - I know it was the sunrise!!!!!!

I'm getting carried away with the excitement.


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## Detourer

Hi Oldtart [Val]

Sunrise, sunset……from what I remember after 2 hours on the camels hump it didn't matter that much :wink: .

What surprises have I for you this time? If Hammid's fiancé does a runner before the wedding next year…….you are being signed up as first reserve. :lol:

…..


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## oldtart

Hi Ray
I take that as a compliment, though I'm not sure what Hammid would think about that!!! Dave says how many camels???


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## Detourer

Would that be “Cash” Camel………or would Dave want a receipt! 

..


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## oldtart

Dave says has Hammid any idea what he is getting himself into should this deal go through?????

I think you said the tour ends at the Cascades d'Ouzoud. From wha t I have read it sounds like a wonderful journey to get there through beautiful landscapes with dominant colours of red earth and dark green thuya and paler grey greens of the olive trees.

Not long now.


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## Detourer

“Dave says has Hammid any idea what he is getting himself into should this deal go through????? “

………He will require references!


”I think you said the tour ends at the Cascades d'Ouzoud. From wha t I have read it sounds like a wonderful journey to get there through beautiful landscapes with dominant colours of red earth and dark green thuya and paler grey greens of the olive trees. Not long now”.

…………Should anyone be confused the reference above is not the MHF “Footsteps – Wedding” tour, but for “Discovery” tour starting next week. I should have called it the “Weight-Watchers” tour, Ramadan starts in a few days and runs throughout the entire trip !!!

..


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## oldtart

You'll have to sort that out with Dave when you see him!!!!


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## RalphandRudy

Hello. It is all very jolly on here but can I ask a serious question. 

Who is underwriting this tour? Is it Motorhomefacts? 

I am fully covered insurancewise for myself and my spouse and also for my motorhome. However I am not covered for anything that goes wrong with a tour operator and we get left high and dry. Now, I am not suggesting this is going to happen but it is better to be safe than sorry. Usually when I travel with a tour company they are covered by ABTA and/or ATOL but I can find no reference on Desert Detours website about its accreditations. I have also searched Companies House but can find no evidence of Desert Detours as being a registered company in the UK. The only address that I can find for Desert Detours is in Spain which leaves me wondering if any contract I will have with Desert Detours will be subject to Spanish consumer laws and not English, which is slightly worrying in that I do not speak Spanish and have no knowledge of Spanish law.

Can you please advise

Ralph


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## billym

Ralph & Rudy said:


> Hello. It is all very jolly on here but can I ask a serious question.
> 
> Who is underwriting this tour? Is it Motorhomefacts?
> 
> I am fully covered insurancewise for myself and my spouse and also for my motorhome. However I am not covered for anything that goes wrong with a tour operator and we get left high and dry. Now, I am not suggesting this is going to happen but it is better to be safe than sorry. Usually when I travel with a tour company they are covered by ABTA and/or ATOL but I can find no reference on Desert Detours website about its accreditations. I have also searched Companies House but can find no evidence of Desert Detours as being a registered company in the UK. The only address that I can find for Desert Detours is in Spain which leaves me wondering if any contract I will have with Desert Detours will be subject to Spanish consumer laws and not English, which is slightly worrying in that I do not speak Spanish and have no knowledge of Spanish law.
> 
> Can you please advise
> 
> Ralph


Bump


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## Detourer

Billym [17-7-09]........."Detourer. Have you thought of changing your name to.......... ImalrightJack ?"

:wink:


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## Detourer

.

Had a question, so an update/info on the itinerary…….Mentioned is the possibility of horse trek [optional extra] during the Spanish section of the tour.

Should anyone on the tour be interested in doing this it involves being picked-up at the campsite and taken to the riding centre about 40mins away. Western style riding and tack and all levels accommodated……by that we mean have ridden before. Ride-out duration etc by arrangement. For those who may have a partner who wishes to ride, but don't themselves, mountain bikes are available to follow....... A number of our clients have used the this horse riding/school facility pre-tour in the past and report a great time and some stunning rides along the Rio Grande, which is a bit dry now but should be running well during May……..

Book at tour meeting…..but more info if you wish at www.ride-in-spain.com


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## NormanB

Bump. There doesn't seem to be a reaction to Ralph and Rudy's interesting point about DD tour operator accreditation.

However, I have confidence that MHF will have explored such aspects and will be able to set minds to rest?


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## Detourer

.

Question received………What is the size of the "FS-Wedding" tour group?

The tour group will be around 15 vehicles. I say around as we do over-book by a few vehicles to cover possible cancellations.

Should the group exceed 15 vehicles [but NO MORE than 20] we will add a second or third support vehicle as well as additional staff].

Unlike the norm with meets and rallies, as this is neither, we are not maintaining an "Interested List" as such. Rather, it is first booked go…….

At this time there are vehicles 6 booked.


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## billym

NormanB said:


> Bump. There doesn't seem to be a reaction to Ralph and Rudy's interesting point about DD tour operator accreditation.
> 
> However, I have confidence that MHF will have explored such aspects and will be able to set minds to rest?


Or maybe not ?

After all the fallings out / bannings a couple of years ago about meets and
rallies I would have expected MHF to have the best interests of its members
at heart , and as NormanB says sets minds to rest.

Detourer. I assume you think I had something to do with the OP. I can
assure you that is not the case.


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## Medallionman

NormanB said:


> Bump. There doesn't seem to be a reaction to Ralph and Rudy's interesting point about DD tour operator accreditation.
> 
> However, I have confidence that MHF will have explored such aspects and will be able to set minds to rest?


I was interested in this tour but the sound of silence is deafening!

Brian


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## navman

Medallionman said:


> I was interested in this tour but the sound of silence is deafening!
> 
> Brian


I guess sometime you just have to trust people.

All I can say is I have been with Ray on a trip and I will be going with him again.


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## nukeadmin

unfortunately Ray is away on a tour at present so can't post on here.

However i spoke with him at length before about these type of things and he gave me answers to appease my interest but didn't really want to debate it all in open forum as some people out there seem to have a bit of an issue with Desert Detours and these type of things just drag on and on and he doesn't have time to fend off enquiry after enquiry. I suggest you read the info below and if you still have any outstanding issues then contact Ray or DD direct.



> Desert Detours is easily the biggest Motorhome Tour organisation operating legally in Morocco, exceeding our nearest "rival" by an excess of 500% and are the only Motorhome Tour Operator offering 5 different routes.
> 
> Other than the initial booking deposit Desert Detours requires NO FUTHER payment for any tour until the tour commences. No other tour organisation offers this.
> 
> Desert Detours, with over 300+ Spain-Morocco-Spain vehicle crossings per year [Motorhomes, 4x4 etc], is perhaps one of the largest single ferry operator clients.
> 
> Desert Detours has a returning client base of 32% with some clients on their 3rd and 4th visit with us. Indeed, Desert Detours now run "returnee" only tours twice a year.
> 
> We are of course a Spanish company....which in effect has far greater control on the "Holiday" sector [as it is thier main industry] than the UK.......Registration is compulsory and involves insurances, permits etc etc etc......AND a HUGE govenment Bond...we are also a Moroccan company.......When I say companies...we chose NOT to hide behind "Limited Liability" where clients would get NOTHING...well One Euro.....in case of default


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## Detourer

………..And now he is back !!......Briefly, as the next tour starts in a few days.

Some general info…..The "Discovery" tour just completed covered some of the proposed MHFacts route over the Atlas. Exceptional rain, before we arrived, had brought down some bridges and washed away roads…….no problem as we had a plan "B" and "C"…..this will not effect the May/June MHFacts tour but anyone thinking of doing Todra and beyond etc between now and late spring will be disappointed.

Only on this thread is the silence deafening………. Many have, as was suggested, contacted ourselves direct for info, updates etc and the office has been busy dealing with these and other matters in my absence…..

The availability at this time is now just 4 vehicle places remaining and we do have a block club booking on standby to fill these places in the unlikely event that MHFacts members do not take them up.

In addition to the two support vehicles and regular Desert Detours staff members Dave and Val Aspden [Oldtart] have signed-on as "Tour Assistants"……..

Ray
Desert Detours

.


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## Detourer

20 ferry places to Morocco for the MHF "Footsteps and Wedding" tour have now been booked. At the moment we have 14 Members confirmed, plus 4 of our own team/support vehicles.

So, there is just *ONE* vehicle place available……….

Those booked will now be receiving further and continued information/updates direct.

However for general interest I have lifted a small part from our latest info mailing that should answer a few points that have recently been PM's or Emailed to me…..

*Pre Wedding and Route*, We are meeting at Alhuarin on the 27th May. The 27th - 30th are at Malagamontepark Campsite for Tour Briefing, entertainment, Spanish BBQ and/or Buffet, optional excursions and of course the Alhaurin Feria. On the 31st we move to Algeciras and re-group [exact location details will be issued]. Cross to MOROCCO on the 1st June. We will then be taking the next 9 - 10 days to reach Source Blue du Meski and the "Wedding". After the wedding [probably on the 15th] return, taking a more direct main road route with the support vehicles to Ceuta or stay-on longer in Morocco if you wish.

*The Wedding*. The plan is to arrive at Source Blue du Meski some time during the afternoons of the 9th or 10th…Given where we are going and the route it is hard to be exact.…….

I should at the stage point out that most events relating to the wedding take place late [very] in the evening and will for the most part run until the early hours. So, while at Meski it's no early starts….just relax. We will, if requested, arrange some daytime activities and/or excursions…….local walks or perhaps a 4x4 drive to the desert dunes some 80k away.

Daytime temps will be quite warm [hot even] so maybe just take advantage of the pool at Meski camp and the shaded palm areas.

*On the afternoon of the 9th *the cow/s, that have already been bought for fattening, will be slaughtered ceremoniously ……….Not sure about the 300+ chickens etc. Attendance for that part is of course optional!! Many women of the village will be involved in food preparation and cooking, both before and during the wedding. Watch, or even help if you wish.

*On the 10th *there is the ceremony that highlights the groom and his family, when gifts and wedding dress/costumes are taken to the "Brides" home. This procession is through the narrow village lanes of Meski. Outside their simple home local/traditional music is then played and food distributed to what will be quite a gathering of villagers. It's essentially a "Women's and Family" night, but we are of course invited.

*The evening/night of 11th *promises to be a rather grander and possibly a far more sumptuous affair, as it revolves around the "Groom" and is his opportunity to show off his wealth and standing in the community ….remember, he and his farther work for Desert Detours…..his father for nearly 20 years!. More food and entertainment. More a "Men's" night, but again we are invited.

*On the night of the 12th *it's back to the village square when Desert Detours will put on a special show for the couple and local community. Should all go to plan we will be taking a mini road-show with us………We have been asked for a "Full-On-High-Decibel" style concert. My youngest daughter, Rebecca, is a featured presenter on a national/networked Spanish radio station and is also a well known singer/performer. One of the support vehicles will carry as many speakers, lighting and amps etc as possible…..so just wait and see…

*The 13th *is very much a cultural, personal and local thing and I am led to believe follows a more "Spiritual" theme, rather than Islamic.

Just a couple of relevant points………

*Dress Code*. Smart [please], it's a wedding. Debbie will no doubt be tramping the souks on the way down [as she will say there is nothing suitable in the wardrobe] for some suitable "Traditional" attire…..You can join her, but that is up to you.

*Alcohol.* Not a problem before or after the wedding, or during the rest of your time in Morocco…. But NOT at the various wedding celebrations.

*Customs.* Do NOT worry. We/you have been formally invited and will be taking part and seeing events that not even some of the "Locals" will be invited to. For example, Ladies at the "Men's" night and Men at the "Ladies" night …….. It's a great privilege so enjoy.

*Photos.* Not a problem unless if and when advised by Desert Detours staff.

*Food. *Loads of and all clean and safe…….but optional…….just look like you love it if in doubt!

*Wedding Gifts*. You are NOT expected to bring gifts but I have been asked so will discuss later.

We have had to strike a fine balance regarding the wedding and have made sure that we are not influencing or controlling the event. So expect some feeling of "What, when, and how……." And "wait n see"…….

Ray
..


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## Detourer

..
I have just noticed that Dave has put a banner at the top of the "Home Page" for the MotorhomeFacts "Footsteps and Wedding Tour".............Only one place left on the tour for members or subscribers.

For all those who have already booked on, and if you are "On Line", or if you are interested.....tune to www.heartfmspain.com who are providing the entertainment on the first evening........ with my daughter, Becky and her band......she is also presenting her regular Saturday show at this moment..........

Don't blame me.......she should know better :roll:

.
Ray


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## Detourer

..

I have posted this again as We/MHF filled the one available place and sadly another has dropped out, due to illness......*So, still ONE vehicle place available.*

Worth mentioning as it had popped up once or twice under other topics......"Wilderness/Wild" camping in Morocco, Documents and Ferry Tickets.

Its about time they got thier act together.........The Moroccan authorities have just issued a whole new raft of requirments for touring vehicles........As always ambiguous and mostly aimed it would seem at 4x4, bike, organised [small] and private groups, including motorhomes etc. Covered, deep in the French/Arabic draft copies we have are references to wilderness camping......when, were and if etc.

When I have worked it all out I will issue translation and/or requirments.....not on here as it will be long and start an unecessary and confusing debate. Those interested can get an up-date and ongoing via the Desert Detours news letter, just ask at the contacts page on our web site.

Ferries........No real problem from wherever you get your tickets......and "Carlos" is OK.......current "Deal" prices are around 250e return but are certainly up for an increase shortly.

75% of those with wrong reg numbers, return dates, prices etc etc will not have a problem........But if you are one of the remaining 25%.......have your CC ready at the exit ferry...

Also, be aware that some of the so called "Open Return" tickets are in fact *NOT* and most others will have a much shorter return valid date.........you will soon know when you leave Morocco!

Just one small point........ :lol: .......... Many of those who go on about the Moroccan's cutting thier throats by clamping down on "wild/wilderness" campers and will loose muuch needed cash etc etc.......Fact is, _solo_ Motorhome's are the lowest spenders in the tourist value league :roll:

...


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## Korky555

In reading Detourer,s article he mentioned the motorhomer was the lowest spender who would holliday in morocco so i wonder where he got his figures from as his tours are anything but cheap also this year i was unable to drive to moroc as normaly i would go in my motorhome and probably spend approx 2000 pounds and more over the 90 days so this year i priced flying out and taking an apartment and guess what flying from gatwick and in an apartment in Agadir for my wife and i £1000 all in so i would have saved going the tourist way and i would have paid for my holliday in the uk


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## peedee

You just might be an exception Korky  

peedee


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## hblewett

Korky555 said:


> normaly i would go in my motorhome and probably spend approx 2000 pounds and more over the 90 days


How much of the £2000 would have been spent in Morocco?


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## Korky555

hblewett said:


> Korky555 said:
> 
> 
> 
> normaly i would go in my motorhome and probably spend approx 2000 pounds and more over the 90 days
> 
> 
> 
> How much of the £2000 would have been spent in Morocco?
Click to expand...

 ALL OF IT AND MAYBE A LITTLE MORE


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## hblewett

Fair enough!!!


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## daftpuddin

*Touring Morocco spend and costs*

Have just retuned from fantastic 6 week tour of Morocco. In connection with spend and costs - met a couple of vans at Sidi Ifni who had just completed an organised tour with Ray.They were spitting tacks about the £1500 cost of their organised tour (they claim 17 out of the 19 on that trip in Feb/March had same opinion). "Hard" costs within the tour fee were ferry, site fees a few meals and the odd entrance fee.
Most camp sites are about £5 a night (usually incl. elec. and sometimes wifi). Meals £5-8. Visitor site fees are nominal. Open ferry Algeceras to Ceuta return about £200-230..
During their trip they spent about same as us - plus the £1500 tour fees (asked for in cash at a car park in Algeceras!). They didn't visit Draa valley (were told it was dangerous! - what from we asked, snakes, robbers, paedophiles!?. What rubbish.) Their beef was that they thought tour fees were really poor value, a rip-off. 
These organised tours play heavily on fear of what motorhomers would to do if things went wrong (illness, breakdown, etc). Fair enough. Point is, if you add these tour costs to other spend on such a trip (meals, 'gifts', fuel, food/drink, etc) then typical spend is MUCH HIGHER than £2000 quoted previously. If, however, much of this spend is pocketed tax free in Spain, then ...........
I have been to Morocco several times and met 'holiday makers' in Marakesh, Agadir etc on half board hotel deals who have spent nothing like the amounts motorhomers do on their extended trips.


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## loddy

You pays your money and makes your choice, they had the brains to research the options before they booked , didn't they ?.

And it's so easy to knock somebody when you do not know the facts.

Loddy


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## navman

Last April I, together with my partner and her two girls (6 and 9) went on a trip with Ray. It was just a fantastic trip in many ways. I know we did not see all of Morocco, it was only three weeks after all. However I think it was worth every penny. 

We saw some wonderful sights and made some great friends. 

Would I go again with him...? Yes for sure. Not because I am afraid of going on my own, after all I am a big boy now, but because I like Ray's style and I am prepared to pay for good service. 

There are some, I am sure, that go with Ray because they lack the confidence to travel to Morocco on their own. There is nothing wrong with that. At least this way they can see a beautiful country and gain a huge amount from Ray's vast knowledge. 

The added bonus is if next time I want to stay on and explore on my own I can on the open ended ferry crossing.

Bob


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## daftpuddin

I completely agree with loddy. I sometimes can't believe how naieve some folk are but in their defence its hard to get all the facts if the tour company doesn't give them.

We also met a couple at Ouzazarte who were on a tour with Blue Camel Tours (run by a Swiss guy who ran a market stall when he wasn't taking tour groups to Morocco). This company ran separate tours in German and English. This couple booked on the English speaking tour. Imagine their surprise when they arrived at Algeceras to discover the other three members of the group were German and had booked on this tour to improve their English! After about 10 days, when we met them, this couple were finding the constant German language very tiring. They needed to know these facts but were'nt told them by the tour company.

It's important for people thinking of using these tour companies that they ARE NOT your ABTA/ATOL type of set-up. They aren't even registered in UK. You have no protection or compensation if things go wrong. There is not even a code of practice if you have any complaints. 
After being asked for about £400 non returnable deposit (to cover ferry costs, etc - which in fact hadn't been booked) the customers on Ray's tour, when meeting up for first time at a car park in Algeceras, apparently were asked for the remainding £1000 in cash (cheques not accepted!!). It's not my way of doing business (I used to work for the Inland Revenue) but, hey,as you say, you pays your money and takes your choice. Enshallah!


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## peedee

> they ARE NOT your ABTA/ATOL type of set-up


Do they have such a thing as ABTA/ATOL in Spain ABTA is for British travel agents and isn't ATOL there to protect loss of air travel which I hardly think applies in this case.

The sensible thing to do is to make your own insurance arrangements but I have never yet heard of Detourer leaving anybody in the lurch. Detourer has a good reputation, the Caravan and Camping Club use his services and as to whether it is value for money or not you will probably only find out by using him and even then it will be a matter of personal opinion.

peedee


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## kennyboy

Well different people different experiences with Detourer!
you either love him or loathe him. There are plenty of both but on Motorhomefacts the loving him wins for whatever reason.  :? :wink: 
That's life.
Ken


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## asprn

*Re: Touring Morocco spend and costs*

Let me say a few things about daftpuddin's post.

1) Have any of the 17 allegedly-unhappy customers said anything about their unhappiness to him first-hand? Nope.
2) Have any of the 17 allegedly-unhappy customers said anything here about their unhappiness? Nope.
3) Did he (the poster) take the trouble to find out who the tour organiser was in respect of the tour he refers to? Nope.

Having met Ray here the day after the trip finished, the reader may find that if the facts were known, there would be an entirely different slant on this free post by a non-member who - to be fair - has not hidden the fact that he has his own business interests. Ray's big & ugly enough to speak for himself if he wants to, and it's not for me to do so. Hopefully though it will come to light who was the organiser and who was the tour guide.

What I dislike intensely is ill-informed, third-hand and ignorant posting under the guise of facts.

Dougie.


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## androidGB

*Re: Touring Morocco spend and costs*



asprn said:


> Let me say a few things about daftpuddin's post.
> 
> 1) Have any of the 17 allegedly-unhappy customers said anything about their unhappiness to him first-hand? Nope.
> 
> Dougie.


Not sure how you come to that conclusion Dougie from reading the post

Andrew


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## asprn

*Re: Touring Morocco spend and costs*



androidGB said:


> Not sure how you come to that conclusion Dougie from reading the post


Read it carefully. 

"met a couple of vans at Sidi Ifni who had just completed an organised tour with Ray"
So he met people who've been on the tour.

"they claim 17 out of the 19 on that trip in Feb/March had same opinion"
No direct evidence of 17 other attendees' opinion - only third-hand evidence. ("THEY said to me that THEY said to them that THEY were unhappy" etc.)

If he's got something to say, why not say, "I went on a trip and I was unhappy." (Obviously because he didn't.) At least that would be honest and with a chance of accuracy, unlike the post here.

I'm not saying this to defend Ray - he can do that if he feels he wants to. I'm saying it because gossip, rumour and innuendo are usually such a waste of time.

Dougie.


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## androidGB

Forget my posting, I see where you are coming from.

When you spoke of people complaining to him, you of course meant the OP, and I thought he was refering to Ray



Andrew


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## ActiveCampers

I find it a bit bizzare daftpuddin regisistered and these are "his" first posts? Clearly not a MH newbie, but only signing up (new account?) to slag off the tours? Is someone bitter? Axe to grind? I'd be interested in Nuke checking the server logs and seeing who in fact this poster really is - as I'd bet they have aother account on here 

Anyway - I'm quite a tourer and far from "the norm" MHer whatever that is. 200 days away last years and, all being well the same this year (yeah yeah - slow start) and next.

Even with this experience we are happily going with Desert Detours next March. WHAT I hear you say?! Especailly as we aren't really group people.

Yep - its expensive. 

Our reasons for using them are: 
1 - we want to be shown things we'd never find
2 - we actually don't want to think too much for a change lol! Morocco is different to what we're used to so looking forward to just being given good places to see/stay
3 - security is a concern - our van isn't a £5 shed and, generally, we carry lots of kit. Okay we reckon its secure, but we'd probably not want to leave it in a lot of places without knowing its safe to do
4 - I'm happy to have the support

Do I care about paying cash? Nope.
Do I care its going to be expensive? Yep  But would we do it alone? nope. Will the experience with DD be better than our DIY? For sure. Will it be worth it? Read my blog next April! 

Quite looking forward to it as, in effect, being looked after will be a nice change than having to think which will make a nice change!!

If its crap - fear not - I'll say its crap! I've nothing to prove or justify my expense on the tour. 

Anyway - if anyone else is on the March 2011 tour let us know!


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## asprn

ActiveCampers said:


> I find it a bit bizzare daftpuddin regisistered and these are "his" first posts? Clearly not a MH newbie, but only signing up (new account?) to slag off the tours? Is someone bitter? Axe to grind? I'd be interested in Nuke checking the server logs and seeing who in fact this poster really is - as I'd bet they have aother account on here
> 
> Anyway - I'm quite a tourer and far from "the norm" MHer whatever that is. 200 days away last years and, all being well the same this year (yeah yeah - slow start) and next.
> 
> Even with this experience we are happily going with Desert Detours next March. WHAT I hear you say?! Especailly as we aren't really group people.
> 
> Yep - its expensive.
> 
> Our reasons for using them are:
> 1 - we want to be shown things we'd never find
> 2 - we actually don't want to think too much for a change lol! Morocco is different to what we're used to so looking forward to just being given good places to see/stay
> 3 - security is a concern - our van isn't a £5 shed and, generally, we carry lots of kit. Okay we reckon its secure, but we'd probably not want to leave it in a lot of places without knowing its safe to do
> 4 - I'm happy to have the support
> 
> Do I care about paying cash? Nope.
> Do I care its going to be expensive? Yep  But would we do it alone? nope. Will the experience with DD be better than our DIY? For sure. Will it be worth it? Read my blog next April!
> 
> Quite looking forward to it as, in effect, being looked after will be a nice change than having to think which will make a nice change!!
> 
> If its crap - fear not - I'll say its crap! I've nothing to prove or justify my expense on the tour.
> 
> Anyway - if anyone else is on the March 2011 tour let us know!


Every single point in your post is exactly what I feel about the OP, and also why we have booked with Ray for next February (pity it wasn't March  ). I could not express it better, so thanks.

Dougie.


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## hblewett

asprn said:


> ActiveCampers said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it a bit bizzare daftpuddin regisistered and these are "his" first posts? Clearly not a MH newbie, but only signing up (new account?) to slag off the tours? Is someone bitter? Axe to grind? I'd be interested in Nuke checking the server logs and seeing who in fact this poster really is - as I'd bet they have aother account on here
> 
> Anyway - I'm quite a tourer and far from "the norm" MHer whatever that is. 200 days away last years and, all being well the same this year (yeah yeah - slow start) and next.
> 
> Even with this experience we are happily going with Desert Detours next March. WHAT I hear you say?! Especailly as we aren't really group people.
> 
> Yep - its expensive.
> 
> Our reasons for using them are:
> 1 - we want to be shown things we'd never find
> 2 - we actually don't want to think too much for a change lol! Morocco is different to what we're used to so looking forward to just being given good places to see/stay
> 3 - security is a concern - our van isn't a £5 shed and, generally, we carry lots of kit. Okay we reckon its secure, but we'd probably not want to leave it in a lot of places without knowing its safe to do
> 4 - I'm happy to have the support
> 
> Do I care about paying cash? Nope.
> Do I care its going to be expensive? Yep  But would we do it alone? nope. Will the experience with DD be better than our DIY? For sure. Will it be worth it? Read my blog next April!
> 
> Quite looking forward to it as, in effect, being looked after will be a nice change than having to think which will make a nice change!!
> 
> If its crap - fear not - I'll say its crap! I've nothing to prove or justify my expense on the tour.
> 
> Anyway - if anyone else is on the March 2011 tour let us know!
> 
> 
> 
> Every single point in your post is exactly what I feel about the OP, and also why we have booked with Ray for next February (pity it wasn't March  ). I could not express it better, so thanks.
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

Ditto. We're going with Ray in May.


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## loddy

I'm going next week

Loddy


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## asprn

loddy said:


> I'm going next week


You won't be if you don't stop drinking this Vino Collapso whilst cooking extraordinarily-good food.

Gie's a wave out the window.

:lol:


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## androidGB

I went in April 2008, taking my 8 year old grandson. 

I have to say I would not have contemplated this trip without DD. 

I would also say that Ray's documentation made it very clear at the outset what we were receiving for our money. 

I find it difficult therefore to understand why people felt aggrieved 

Sure you could have done it cheaper on your own, but anyone with half a brain would have realise that. Do they think Ray runs this for the benefit of his health ? 


Andrew


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## asprn

androidGB said:


> I find it difficult therefore to understand why people felt aggrieved


In the case of the OP, possibly vested interest......?



androidGB said:


> Do they think Ray runs this for the benefit of his health?


If he is, it ain't working. :lol:

Dougie.


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## billmac

ditto we are also going with Ray in May.

It is still a free world for everyone to make their own choice.

Bill


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## androidGB

asprn said:


> androidGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do they think Ray runs this for the benefit of his health?
> 
> 
> 
> If he is, it ain't working. :lol:
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

I'm too polite to say that :lol:

Andrew


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## TinaGlenn

We also went with DD in April 08. We combined it with our first ever trip out of the UK, and loved every minute.... well some of the motorway driving in Spain got scary :wink: 

Why DD for us? To go off the beaten track, visit and camp in places we wouldn't have found on the usual "Follow the Herd" type of trips which we hate. Ray's easy going style suited us perfectly and now he is doing the adventure trips we are going back in a few weeks for the May trip, we will be stopping off at Malaga Monte Parc on our way back, so we might see some of you on your way out for the "Wedding Trip"

Oh..... as for paying in cash..... One of the members of our trip in April 08 was taken ill and rushed to hospital, Ray was able to make sure the person was taken to the best hospital and got the best treatment, the hospital required payment in cash, the ill person's partner didn't have enough at that moment, no problem, Ray was right there, the bill way paid and the couple had the choice to be escorted back to Spain or to carry on, they elected to carry on, the group stayed at a campsite for an extra night to allow for the hospital release and then we were all off again, with the couple paying Ray back after the next bank stop. 

We can't wait to be back on our way, might even have a go at a blog this time 

Tina


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