# Do you believe



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

My stepmother was a well known Medium, I accompanied her on a few occasions and even attended at a Spiritualist Church meeting. I was quite unsettled the first few times but then relaxed and made no attempt to look for explanations.
I wondered if anyone has had such an experience on this subject.

cabby


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I dont know but I am open minded to it. When my uncle laid dying one of my cousins friends who apparently has a Medium gift was in the room (I wasnt there at the time) but she described an old man with a walking stick standing over my uncle and holding his hand. She went on to describe him in detail and without doubt (according to my cousins) she was describing my father who died two years previously and like me was close to my uncle. She had never met him, knew of him or any of our side of the family. There have been several occasions where she has done this by all accounts. She doesnt do it for a living or make any money out of it so there is no financial gain for her making it up. How could she describe someone she had never met or knew of?


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Oh puuurleeeese !!

How can anyone with a modicum of analysis believe in such utter hocum? It's like believing in astrology and that the alignment of planets (which are simply lumps of rock) many millions of miles away influence how your life progresses!!

In case you have not yet realised it I, for one, most certainly do NOT believe in 

Astrology
Contacting the dead (they are DEAD for ****** sake!!)
Reincarnation
Reiki "healing"
The power of "crystals" 
Feng Shui (I don't care how many centuries it's been in existence, it's still nonsense) 
God or any other "supreme being" 

And all the other mumbo jumbo that total charlatans peddle to the gullible (and charge them a fortune for) 

Total b******s in my view. 

Others I am sure will be happy to advise me just how wrong I am and that they have spoken with long lost auntie Mable etc. Shame it's never been achieved under verifiable scientific conditions isn't it? Ever wondered why?

Andy



Ho Ho I bet the above is going to bring the wrath of many down on me, do I care? Wadya think? 

I will sum it all up with just three words "Prove it scientifically"


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I would add to your list sea sickness bands, copper or magnetic arthritis remedies, homeopathy and a few other things like hypnotherapy. However, while they don't work for me because I don't believe in them, I do know many for whom they do work, either to cure pain or to bring reassurance and comfort. 

So, I don't knock them ( much....) and, with those for whom they do work, I try not to disparage them either. I was taken, by a friend, to a medium when I was a student. She (the medium) told me a lot of stuff that it wasn't difficult to work out from a few minutes chat or from simply looking at me but she didn't charge either so I can't call her a charlatan. Those who do go to mediums expecting a communication from the dead probably get what they went for and feel better for it so, perhaps the charge is justified ?

I could also add to the list a huge number of ridiculously expensive cosmetics and beauty treatments.


----------



## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Mrplodd said:


> Oh puuurleeeese !!
> 
> How can anyone with a modicum of analysis believe in such utter hocum? It's like believing in astrology and that the alignment of planets (which are simply lumps of rock) many millions of miles away influence how your life progresses!!
> 
> ...


Well summed up Andy. Been trying to tell the Mrs something similar for years. She went quiet when I read out your post to her.:grin2:

Steve


----------



## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

Brilliant MrPlodd - I couldn't improve a single word!
Although I would add religion to Grizzly's list


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I firmly believe there aint no divine being or afterlife. 
Many things which are old wives tales or fables I can't accept.

But they do work for others and who am I to say they can't or shouldn't believe.?
Corks in the bed to stop cramps. Bluddy ridiculous but they work for me.

Ray.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Ray

Are sure it's not the contents of the bottle from where get the corks from isn't the REAL reason? 

It's a well known fact that alcohol is good at assisting sleep:wink2:

Andy


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> Oh puuurleeeese !!
> 
> How can anyone with a modicum of analysis believe in such utter hocum? It's like believing in astrology and that the alignment of planets (which are simply lumps of rock) many millions of miles away influence how your life progresses!!
> 
> ...


Come on Andy...stop sitting on the fence...tell us what you really think...:grin2:

Graham :smile2:


----------



## chilly (Apr 20, 2007)

:laugh::laugh::laugh:>


----------



## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Oh puuurleeeese !!
> 
> How can anyone with a modicum of analysis believe in such utter hocum? It's like believing in astrology and that the alignment of planets (which are simply lumps of rock) many millions of miles away influence how your life progresses!!
> 
> ...


Andy
Don't beat about the bush, say it as you see it :laugh:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Oh puuurleeeese !!
> 
> How can anyone with a modicum of analysis believe in such utter hocum? It's like believing in astrology and that the alignment of planets (which are simply lumps of rock) many millions of miles away influence how your life progresses!!
> 
> ...


Hmm, so you're on the fence about it then Andy  

Liz is into it, and some odd stuff has happened, but for me, nah all BS by people who feel the need to tell you stuff they could have know otherwise.

Put a total stranger in a sealed room with not gadgetry with a "medium" and they will of course get some stuff right, but any real facts, I strongly doubt it.

However should I be able to come back and make contact, that Cabby is going to get an itch he can never scratch


----------



## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Interesting stuff.
If there is an afterlife (we would be ghosts yes) and there would be millions and millions of us ghosting about yes. So why is it that only a few "mediums" can communicate with the ghosts (spirits). Oh right the self professed mediums tell us they communicate. 
Now on the whole the people that go to mediums are those who have lost a relative and are no doubt having some issues coping with the loss. To think that in some way they can talk to their lost loved one may well bring comfort so they are "open" to manipulation by so called mediums.
My experience of the church is that the infighting and power struggles are no different to any worldly club. The most vociferous quote centuries old texts to try and justify their position and say "it is Gods word" so don't argue or contradict!!
On the whole,whilst probably bringing some comfort to believers I take the view that religion has caused more trouble than it has helped. 
The current state of the world terrorism etc is essentially the result of religious zeal gone manic!!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> I would add to your list sea sickness bands, copper or magnetic arthritis remedies, homeopathy and a few other things like hypnotherapy. However, while they don't work for me because I don't believe in them, I do know many for whom they do work, either to cure pain or to bring reassurance and comfort.
> 
> So, I don't knock them ( much....) and, with those for whom they do work, I try not to disparage them either. I was taken, by a friend, to a medium when I was a student. She (the medium) told me a lot of stuff that it wasn't difficult to work out from a few minutes chat or from simply looking at me but she didn't charge either so I can't call her a charlatan. Those who do go to mediums expecting a communication from the dead probably get what they went for and feel better for it so, perhaps the charge is justified ?
> 
> I could also add to the list a huge number of ridiculously expensive cosmetics and beauty treatments.


I'd not knock those on the grounds that I know sod all about medicine, but they seem to work on animals too, so how do we explain that.

As for cosmetics etc, okay maybe some people are unfortunate and to look their best might need to cover up a blemish for their own self confidence, fine as for the rest gullible doesn't cover it, Liz wears none most of the time, but somehow the bathroom shelf has loads of this type of crap on it.

I feel that a woman looks better sans filler and paint, but that's just me, preferred tom boys all my life.


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I'd not knock those on the grounds that I know sod all about medicine, but they seem to work on animals too, so how do we explain that.
> 
> As for cosmetics etc, okay maybe some people are unfortunate and to look their best might need to cover up a blemish for their own self confidence, fine as for the rest gullible doesn't cover it, .


If the animals owner believes that a homeopathic remedy will work- as presumably they must or they would not have bought it- then the pet picks up various clues from it's owner that "tell" it that it is feeling better.

I've no objection to cosmetics and expensive beauty preparations as such but, looking at the chemical composition of most of them, can see nothing that puts them ahead of the Tesco Everyday cheapy stuff. Having nicer packaging and a much higher price tag will not make them do their job any better but you will always get people who do think that so will go for the £100s per drop stuff ( " Because they're worth it " ??)

As for the snake oil type beauty treatments- hyperbaric oxygen chambers and the like, if you feel better afterwards then fine. It's your money.

Having spent a lifetime teaching science I do feel a bit upset sometimes that my colleagues and I seem to have done such a poor job with many who still believe that aqua is a magic substance and organic substances contain no chemicals.


----------



## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

My wife is regular church goer and goes to a bible class every week and seems to find some kind of contentment from that, however, it does mean that I cannot, under any circumstances, have any kind of debate or argument with her about the subject without hurting her feelings.
I am with Mr Plod, i just cannot fathom how, in this day and age anyone with a modicum of common sense can put their "faith" in anything they cannot see, hear, touch or taste.
Religion is a man made invention, possibly created to control the masses by the few, an early type of Governmental system perhaps.
Mediums are, in the main, people who have vivid imaginations and can "read people" by way of body movement etc to get a hint on suggestive answers asked earlier (" is there anyone here who has lost a relative or friend with the initial "A"? , if they could really contact the dead they would just ask the dead their name and get on with it).
Astrology is really hocum, the entire population could be divided by however many star signs there are and be given any one of millions of "readings" that astrologers churn out daily, come on! you could mix and match any amount of these readings until they appear relevant to you.

All these things may be a comfort to those who may feel that they are missing something or that make them feel included in a certain community of like minded people (a local church or spiritual club) but to me it's all mumbo jumbo with no credible evidence. Anecdotal stories of the dead contacting people is not evidence, if there were any physical evidence we would have it by now but the various churches and religions around the world are now too powerful or large to allow for the distinct possibility that they have been duping the masses for so long.

Jim


----------



## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

Gosh what a sensible bunch we all are - for once we seem to all agree about something.

It's a miracle! (sorry).


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

mgdavid said:


> Gosh what a sensible bunch we all are - for once we seem to all agree about something.
> 
> It's a miracle! (sorry).


I am also amazed at the consensus view being the same as mine!!!

I felt sure many would take me to task over my views > but no-one has

Andy


----------



## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

may as well wade into the middle of this...
first to answer the original question - I spent the early years of my life with a grandmother who was much in demand as a spiritualist medium and faith healer. I can remember being in a seance long before I can ever remember being in a church so I just took it all for granted and was about 8 before I realised that it was not normal to talk to dead people! 
Many years have gone by and I have had experience of many religions, faiths and belief systems and as far as I can see they are all just that - a belief. I would never knock someones faith or belief system if it brings them some peace and doesn't hurt others, we all need something to hang on to when the going gets tough. As for needing 'scientific' proof - that in itself is a touching example of a belief system. Our so called scientific knowledge is still at a fairly rudimentary stage and who knows what might be discovered in the near future. There are some fairly amazing (or baffling depending on your outlook) things being discovered every day that challenge current thinking on reality.
Back to the original question - I am keeping an open mind, I have witnessed some things that fall outside our current idea of reality but I don't have an explanation for any of it. If animals can use heightened senses to predict earthquakes, epileptic fits or discover early stage cancers perhaps some humans have retained the ability to tap into dormant abilities to sense other things. We are after all part of the animal kingdom.
One thing I would like to take issue with - way back on page one someone referred to hypnotherapy as unscientific hokum. Hypnosis is part of mainstream medical practice with a lot of good research evidence to back it up. I worked as a consultant nurse/hypnotherapist specialising in phobias, anxiety disorders and stress for my last few years before leaving the NHS and I took patient referrals from GPs and a consultant psychiatrist. Everyone is able to enter a hypnotic state (and does at least a couple of times every day) but not everyone is suitable for hypnotherapy. The skill is in being able to find the right approach for those who could benefit from the technique. To benefit from it you have to feel comfortable enough with the therapist to allow them to lead you into a hypnotic state then set in action the changes you want to make. Having said that it is very sensible to be cautious about entering hypnotherapy as, sadly, it is not regulated in this country so anyone can set themselves up to do hypnosis with no training and who knows what motives. 


Chris


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Andy - I have followed this thread with interest.

You state:

"I am also amazed at the consensus view being the same as mine!!!

I felt sure many would take me to task over my views but no-one has."

Point 1} 
"Consensus" A statistician would demolish your statement in a trice. 
It's almost as good as the TV adverts for (eg) shampoo, rejuvenating cream or snake oil that state 
"85 out of 97 women agree".

Point 2}
"take me to task" 
Could it be that those who hold some form of belief (eg in Mediums, religion or snake oil) simply don't feel the need to take you to task.

Discuss/argue/rant or even roll-over and give in.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Before I met Liz, I went out with a very nice lady from Street, in Somerset, near to Glastonbury, she was a Godesss, no she really was, a high priestess of a Pagan temple, she was well into it, poor as a church mouse, she did faith healing and she did some healing on my shoulder, it was motorcycle injury and hurt like hell most days, she did her stuff, 10 years have passed by and it has been right as rain since, take what you will from that, she is still practicing as far as I know.

I don't believe in it and she knew that, but she did.


----------



## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

I have no trouble with people believing whatever they want as long as it does not involve causing or promoting harm to others.
I have however concerns that some people can mislead or exploit vulnerable individuals to suit their own ends or to gain "status".
To my way of thinking if people feel reflexology, bald head rubbing or lusting after the latest Hymer camping car makes them feel better who am I to spoil their fun.
Where I take exception is when religious zealots knock my door or interrupt my walk along the pavement to tell me that unless I buy what they are selling I will end up toasting my feet on a burning fire. That is a step too far and I politely (sometime less politely) tell them to go peddle their wares elsewhere.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I was taking French lessons about 20 odd years ago. During the tea break the conversation turned to spiritualism. The elderly gentleman, teaching us, spoke four languages, one of which was Spanish. A while previously, some good friends of his decided to consult a Ouija board. He was VERY sceptical but gave in to their demands to keep the peace. After a while the board started to go mad, zooming around all over the place not seeming to make any sense until he realised that the "message" was in Spanish. No one else in that room spoke Spanish except him and he was not manipulating it!


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

On another note, Reflexology has cured several of my, admittedly minor, complaints. One of them being blocked sinuses which I had been suffering from for many years. It is a bit like acupuncture as it clears blocked pathways.


Acupuncture is also very effective and several of my dogs have made amazing progress when treated with it. One would go into a doze and snore during the treatment. You can't tell me that it was the placebo effect.


----------



## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

raynipper said:


> Corks in the bed to stop cramps. Bluddy ridiculous but they work for me.
> 
> Ray.


Perhaps it is after consuming the contents of the bottles the corks were in!! :grin2: :grin2:


----------



## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

Some years ago I had a young disabled Indian woman using the hydrotherapy pool I ran. We had never met before and whilst we were chatting, out of the blue, she said she could see what she thought was my father, standing beside me saying Doctor. She asked was he a doctor, no. Eventually I realised I had been to the doctors that morning and had he been alive would have been concerned for me.. It did shake me somewhat as it was so unexpected.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

When I was 22 playing rugby down in Swansea, I developed a knee injury. It turned out to be the classic cartilage issue. The Dr said to keep off it for 3 months (i.e. no exercise...definitely no rugby); take pain killers; and then it would need surgery if it didnt settle down.

The rugby club had a tie in with a physio whom I later found out was a reflexologist. I went to see this chap - a scouse weightlifter by the looks/sounds of him who worked on me for an hour. I thought it strange as he did very little with the knee but worked from my head down to my feet...spending a great deal of time working on the soles of my feet. TCALSS after an hour I left with the advice to take it easy for 2 days; do some small bending exercises for 2 days and I could play that Saturday! 

For the rest of my rugby playing days (I stopped playing at 35) I NEVER had any other issue with that knee. Fast forward to 7 years ago and it went again...this time I had to have the op!

I say this just to add grist to the mill.

For my insomnia I have had hypnotherapy - which didn't work as they couldn't put me to sleep (go figure!!) and acupuncture, which also didn't work.

I cant say that I believe in this stuff but perhaps am an Agnostic in that I am open to listening and wouldn't decry anyone elses faith based beliefs...if it works for them and doesn't impinge on anyone elses lives...then go for it I say.

NB I draw the line at Druidic dawn ceremonies at stone circles with group sex >

Graham :smile2:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The medical stuff is an odd one, I wouldn't knock it, but the Medium game is largely fabrication based on guesswork or prior knowledge.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Strange things happen 

When I was nursing, a Chinese guy who was a patient invited myself and my bestfriend for a meal as a thank you 

We had a lovely meal in his home and his partner he said was a hand reader and would read our hands

He read mine first, said I would be married within a year to a guy whose hair grew upwards and who was not much taller than me 

I doubted that on all accounts as I preferred tall men and at 19 I didn't see me marrying any time soon

My friend Ann, he said, would meet someone abroad, not English and she would marry him and live abroad

A short while later I met Albert and within a year we were married. His hair does grow upward, a natural crew cut, he is 5 ft 9

Ann went to Africa when we qualified where she met and married a Rhodesian, they returned to England briefly but soon returned to live and work in Africa 

Could be coincidence??

Aldra


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GMJ said:


> When I was 22 playing rugby down in Swansea, I developed a knee injury. It turned out to be the classic cartilage issue. The Dr said to keep off it for 3 months (i.e. no exercise...definitely no rugby); take pain killers; and then it would need surgery if it didnt settle down.
> 
> The rugby club had a tie in with a physio whom I later found out was a reflexologist. I went to see this chap - a scouse weightlifter by the looks/sounds of him who worked on me for an hour. I thought it strange as he did very little with the knee but worked from my head down to my feet...spending a great deal of time working on the soles of my feet. TCALSS after an hour I left with the advice to take it easy for 2 days; do some small bending exercises for 2 days and I could play that Saturday!
> 
> ...


Well I am a Christian but not a very good one.  I think its important to sample other religions. I feel its my Christian duty. Is there a branch near me?


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Tcalss?


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I do hate these smart arse abbreviations.Stop being so bloody lazy.It is much too late in the day to start working out your meaning.

cabby


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

cabby said:


> I do hate these smart arse abbreviations.Stop being so bloody lazy.It is much too late in the day to start working out your meaning.
> 
> cabby


Quite simply - rude!:frown2:

I'll live my life as I wish Cabby - please don't even think of trying to tell me how to do it. Don't read my posts if you don't like it - simple really.

TCALSS = To cut a long story short

Graham :smile2:


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well Graham I wouldn't have known that

Some of us oldies don't do text speech so it's akin to double Dutch

Sandra


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

aldra said:


> Well Graham I wouldn't have known that
> 
> Some of us oldies don't do text speech so it's akin to double Dutch
> 
> Sandra


Fair point Sandra. I don't over use it myself and it was laziness...its just that he didn't need to be so blooming rude about it :grin2:

tbh I thought OMG! WTF! It didn't make me LOL or indeed ROFL but , as they say, YOLO...

Luckily I didn't have to deploy the STFU! >

:grin2:

Graham :smile2:


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I wanted to be a fortune teller but my parents wouldn't let me. They said there was no future in it.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

erneboy said:


> I wanted to be a fortune teller but my parents wouldn't let me. They said there was no future in it.


Boom Tish!

I'm all week...try the veal ...

:grin2:

Graham :smile2:


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Sublime to the ridiculous, or vice-versa more like.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

My apologies if I came across as rude, I just find it a pain to translate correctly and if I make a mistake it could lead to me replying with a completely wrong answer. I am old and as aldra says we are used to talking not text speak. Although the Yanks did have a habit of using abbreviations to save paint around the aerodromes etc during WW2. Hope this post was not too long.:grin2::grin2:

cabby


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

FFS Cabby - just shut up will you!!!


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Now that one I do know and I take exception to it.In fact that is beyond rude.Completely uncalled for and shows you as you really must be.

cabby


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Cabby - I am mortified that I have upset your sensibilities.

I have washed my mouth out with soap and am itching like mad due to the sackcloth, not to mention the ashes.

I am arranging to be scourged as well but I need to whip him into action.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Is that all, hardly seems enough to me.Maybe a thrashing with nettles to round it off. Oh FFS 30 years of cabbing has hardened me to outrageous comments,but still able to make one blush when in Brighton.

cabby


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Now now cabby

Thrashing with nettles is beneficial ( so I'm told)

Leave him with his sackcloth, ashes, and soap

Seems a bit over the top to me pippin 

Still no accounting for taste eh ??

Sandra


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Maybe I should sell tickets.>>

cabby


----------



## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

cabby said:


> Maybe I should sell tickets.>>
> 
> cabby


PMSL

Lee


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Hope you are wearing a pad then

Aldra


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

sorry Lee, the brain is on down time, not sure what the abv. is and do not want to make an error.

cabby


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Cabby, an incontinence pad ?????

Have a translator here in the form of a grandson :wink2::wink2:

Sandra


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Have looked up via google, go and take a cold cold shower Lee.:grin2::grin2: are you older than you realise.

cabby


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Cabby
I fear for you
The clues baby the clues

Sandra


----------

