# I'm furious



## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

Today, we brought our MH out of storage to do last minute checks in readiness for our cross channel trip on Wednesday evening.

On the way home I heard an horrible grinding noise that could not be mistaken for anything but worn disk pads.

Now I'm really furious about this as each year I've taken the MH for a service and MOT at the same garage, I asked the garage to make sure the brakes are ok because of travelling so much in the alps.

The service was done in June prior to a europe trip and the MOT was done on the Aug 5th when we returned. To say I'm furious they didn't advise me that the pads could do with changing is an understatement.

I'll be on the phone on Monday morning and if they won't oblige me with a quick brake pad change, I'll certainly name and same them as I've noticed they have a lot of custom from people with motorhomes.

Just WHAT do we pay these garages for ?

Are safety checks / advisories no longer part of a service. ?

Just on the off chance that this garage refuses to change the pads in time for me to catch the ferry, does anyone know of a garage that do the work ASAP ( Maybe your a garage owner ).


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

You're sure it isn't just rust on the brake disks? That can sound horrible at first, until it's worn off.

Gerald


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Zozzer, It might not be that, a mate of mine once parked his Van on the side of the road cos he thought his pads had gone, Got a firm to come and suspended tow it for him at a cost of £80 for a two mile journey, When it turned out he had nearly full pads and there was no grinding, all they could say was that it could have been either rust, a hard spot on pad or a stone trapped, Total cost £180 for nothing


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

geraldandannie said:


> You're sure it isn't just rust on the brake disks? That can sound horrible at first, until it's worn off.
> 
> Gerald


Definitely not Gerald, the Motorhome storage we use is up and Bolton and had only be in storage for two weeks. On our way we travelled down to Spinneys at Holmes Chapel to pick up a few bits and bobs before heading home to Leigh a distance of 60miles in total.

The grinding only started after 57 miles when doing the last 3 miles through town. Light pressure on pedal, no noise, increase pressure when stopping and the noise appears as the pads bite the disk (or chew it up in my case)

I know the horrible grinding noise after the van has be stood for a few months in winter, but usually that would normally clean itself off after the first few hundred yards.

Now that I've calmed down a little, I'll even be calling KWIK FIT to see if they can chage them RAPID.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

just in case you can not get them changed locally, buy a set of pads to have them available when you find a garage that has 30 mins to spare.

cabby


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

So you've done a European trip since the service, during which you may have worn them out anyway?

And you're complaining an MOT didn't tell you you're pads are worn? Is it part of the test?!


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## TJ101 (Oct 12, 2008)

grizzlyj said:


> So you've done a European trip since the service, during which you may have worn them out anyway?
> 
> And you're complaining an MOT didn't tell you you're pads are worn? Is it part of the test?!


Spot on !!!

So long as the brake efficiency is OK, Not part of the test, as most brake pads can not be seen,

I hope you pass the attitude test, when you speak to them on Monday, asking them for a quick check !! otherwise, i think you may be unlucky, if shouting the odds


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## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*Brake noise*

Zozzer, I am also based in Leigh and good Fiat serivce locally is non existent. I used to go to Lancaster and will in future be going to Stoke to the highest rated Fiat Professional garage in the UK.

An MOT is a test of your vehicle being safe for the road there and then, not necessarily even 10 miles down the road. Your service is a different matter, a pad depth would have been nice.

Also, fiat callipers always have and still do stick, try driving in first gear with a bit of gas and brake. If you have a stone stuck it will clear and the warm will encourage the callipers to return to rest point.

Phil K


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

grizzlyj said:


> So you've done a European trip since the service, during which you may have worn them out anyway?
> 
> And you're complaining an MOT didn't tell you you're pads are worn? Is it part of the test?!


Your missing the point.

I'm not blaming the garage for the brake pads wearing out, I'm angry with them for NOT doing a proper service and telling me the pads had not much life left in them and could do with replacing. Had the garage told me about the state of the brake pads, or any other repair work I would have authorised them to do the work at the time of the service or booked it in to have the work done.

We have a saying in Lancashire,

"You don't buy a dog and bark yourself"

When I pay for a full service I expect a full service. Any competent mechanic worth his salt will be able to assess the amount of wear on a brake pad and give the customer an estimation of how many mile they have left on them.

And for the record, our Europe trip was 2300 miles, followed by a further 1800 touring around Scotland after the MOT.

There one thing for sure, once this problem is sorted, I won't be taking the van there again.


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## schojac (Oct 13, 2007)

TJ101 said:


> grizzlyj said:
> 
> 
> > So you've done a European trip since the service, during which you may have worn them out anyway?
> ...


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

schojac said:


> TJ101 said:
> 
> 
> > grizzlyj said:
> ...


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

schojac - The MOT certificate confirms that at the time of the test, without dismantling it, the vehicle met the minimum acceptable environmental and road safety standards required by law.* It doesn't mean that the vehicle is roadworthy for the length of time the certificate is valid.* The MOT certificate is also no guarantee of the general mechanical condition of your vehicle. The test doesn't cover the condition of the engine, clutch or gearbox

Taken from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

The garage should have informed you that the brake pads would not last until the next sheduled service. The MOT test only tests the efficiency of the brakes on the day of testing and has nothing whatsoever to do with the remaining life expectancy of the pads.
If it does turn out to be worn pads that is causing the noise, then it would be reasonable to complain to the servicing garage. Of course, their response will no doubt be that you have covered over 4000 miles since the service and they would have no idea how those miles were driven.
If the pads are causing the noise, just get some new ones and enjoy your trip.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

If the pads were thin and the testing station did not give you an advisory notice don't use them again.

Dick


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

Glandwr said:


> If the pads were thin and the testing station did not give you an advisory notice don't use them again.
> 
> Dick


Its not their job to inspect them, they test the brakes not do a brake inspection, a lot of vehicles you can't see the condition of the pads when the wheels are on


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

motormouth said:


> The garage should have informed you that the brake pads would not last until the next sheduled service. The MOT test only tests the efficiency of the brakes on the day of testing and has nothing whatsoever to do with the remaining life expectancy of the pads.
> If it does turn out to be worn pads that is causing the noise, then it would be reasonable to complain to the servicing garage. Of course, their response will no doubt be that you have covered over 4000 miles since the service and they would have no idea how those miles were driven.
> If the pads are causing the noise, just get some new ones and enjoy your trip.


Spot on


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## anjasola (Jun 24, 2009)

ahhhhh the MOT... did you know tyres can pass an MOT test but fail a Police check....possible 3points per tyre !


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

KSH said:


> Its not their job to inspect them, they test the brakes not do a brake inspection, a lot of vehicles you can't see the condition of the pads when the wheels are on


Like I said if they are a "that's not my job kind of station" I would not use them again. What are advisory notices for anyway?

Dick


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

anjasola said:


> ahhhhh the MOT... did you know tyres can pass an MOT test but fail a Police check....possible 3points per tyre !


Please explain.
If you mean 6 months later, then of course they could fail a police test. 
Just to be clear. An MOT pass only says that the items checked were OK at the time of the test. If someone was stupid enough to do so, they could remove pefectly good tyres and replace them with bald ones an hour after the MOT was carried out.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Pads which were so badly worn would have been unlikely to have passed an MOT in August. Although the MOT test only records braking efficiency, MOT testers will almost invariably check the pad thickness visually if possible (easy on the Fiat) and comment if they find pads are getting worn. What about the explanation below?

At Shepton Show last year a member drove onto the site very carefully.
A couple of miles before he got to the show his front brakes had suddenly begun to make a loud grinding noise, he diagnosed this as a brake pad problem and drove the last bit of the journey using the handbrake. I should add that the member concerned is a very capable engineer and was confident that his brake pads were in good condition.

On removing the front wheel it became clear that one of the friction pads had suddenly completely disintegrated, leaving only the pad backing plate to clamp onto the disk. The remainder of the pads were in good condition and it's almost certain that an inspection at the start of his journey would not have revealed any fault whatsoever.

I've personally known this to happen several times, the most serious being on a Renault when because of the design of the caliper, the pad backing plate passed between the disk and caliper causing a piston to be pushed out of it's bore resulting in the loss of all brake fluid and complete brake failure. Again, in that case the remaining pads were in good condition and the event would have been impossible to foresee. I changed my front pads earlier this year, not because they were worn but because on one pad the edges were showing signs of crumbling, they were genuine, original Fiat parts and I'm led to wonder if it's a common problem of Fiat pads?

From your description I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened in your case. Have you taken a look, you can see the outer pads through the holes in the wheels? You may well be jumping to conclusions and blaming the garage without justification


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

gaspode said:


> ... one of the friction pads had suddenly completely disintegrated, leaving only the pad backing plate to clamp onto the disk. The remainder of the pads were in good condition and it's almost certain that an inspection at the start of his journey would not have revealed any fault whatsoever...


I had exactly the same thing on my SAAB cabrio - one rear pad split the friction material from the backplate.

If I hadn't asked my local indy SAAB guy to have a look I would have continued driving thinking the rattle was one of the exhaust hangers or similar.

Cheers

Dave


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## anjasola (Jun 24, 2009)

motormouth said:


> anjasola said:
> 
> 
> > ahhhhh the MOT... did you know tyres can pass an MOT test but fail a Police check....possible 3points per tyre !
> ...


You can have a tyre pass an MOT drive out of the MOT Station and fail a Police tyre check, VOSA and the Police Authorities have different 'legal tyre' guidelines.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

We live in Wigan and hub used a local guy that used to work at fiat he has been excellent so far. I can get his name if you want it but l would have to drive past the garage as not remember it off the top of my head and am way for the next 3 weeks or so working. Only back for odd overnight spells.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

From the original post I thought the European trip included the Alps?
3000 miles in a fairly laden van including some of the most brake testing descents in Europe? If you had toured Norfolk maybe they would still have life left 

If they are easily checked on a Fiat, thats to allow you to check them, easily 

The flip side is when you get a call during a garage service saying shall we change the pads because they may not last the next year, 10000 miles etc, the implication being they should change them now, guaranteeing them a little more work which is more cost to you, essentially changing them too early. That annoys me. I'll come back when they need it thank you! 

You can't see my pads without taking the wheels off. Each wheel and tyre weighs 150kg, but I still see that as something I need to keep an eye on myself. 

Noone but me is responsible for the road worthyness of my van. What a garage does is only part of it.

The same is true for everybody, but the degree to which individuals take on that responsibility varies a great deal. 

A recent post detailing getting towed to a garage due to a fuel leak, which turned out to be a loose screw on fuel filter I felt the same way. It would have been obvious where the fuel was coming from, open the bonnet, screw it back on, by hand as the mechanic would have done, wash hands, continue on your way. That poster also implied the garage was responsible for the inconvenience they suffered, not just possibly not properly seating the filter, which is easily done. However much that service cost its still done by fallable humans 8O 

Just because the majority of new vehicles systems aren't user fixable, simple things can and should be checked by the driver regularly. All IMHO of course 

Jason


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## dikyenfo (Feb 16, 2008)

So long as you have a torque spanner you could have changed them yourself ten times over. Pad changing is the simplest thing in the world to do . Just get a set of pads c/w fittings and get on with it.


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## Sideways86 (Feb 25, 2009)

*pads*

4000 miles after the service

heavy truck
driving style
etc etc

dont shout too loud you will only pee people off, an advise would have been nice

however shouting imho will not get you anywhere in this case.

An mot is a test at that specific time amen!


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

.[/quote]

You can have a tyre pass an MOT drive out of the MOT Station and fail a Police tyre check, VOSA and the Police Authorities have different 'legal tyre' guidelines.[/quote]

What are these differences please??


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

anjasola said:


> You can have a tyre pass an MOT drive out of the MOT Station and fail a Police tyre check, VOSA and the Police Authorities have different 'legal tyre' guidelines.


I beg to differ. It's road traffic legislation which determines tyre tread depths etc. Have a look at http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/tyres.html which sets out the UK minimum requirements for different vehicles types.

Dougie.


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## Biglol (Jul 16, 2007)

I have experienced a "Stone Chip" stuck in the disc brakes, and I think this is what the problem is. It sounds terrible.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

If you had a full service then they should have removed the wheels and checked the brakes. If you are following the manufacture's service schedule (either by mileage or annual )will depend whether it is a wheels on visual or wheels off visual inspection. 
The mot will only test brake efficientcey,if they work to the spec they will pass, even if the pads are low. If they could see the pads were low they should issue an advisory.


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## schojac (Oct 13, 2007)

I do not disagrre with any of the threads posted. I must be very lucky as the guy who tests all my vehicles is very supportive and will issue an advisory notification. He has nothing to gain by this as he does tyres and MOT's only.


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## anjasola (Jun 24, 2009)

asprn said:


> anjasola said:
> 
> 
> > You can have a tyre pass an MOT drive out of the MOT Station and fail a Police tyre check, VOSA and the Police Authorities have different 'legal tyre' guidelines.
> ...


Well i run an MOT station .........i'll dig out the VOSA regulations.


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## anjasola (Jun 24, 2009)

edit: double post


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## cleo (Nov 17, 2007)

anjasola said:


> asprn said:
> 
> 
> > anjasola said:
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So do we and TBH thats news to us. :? :?


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

anjasola said:


> asprn said:
> 
> 
> > anjasola said:
> ...


Would this link help?

http://www.ukmot.com/4-1.asp#Text_top


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

If you've got furious about this, what about when something serious happens? Did you ask the garage at the time of the service about the condition of the pads were and how many miles wear were left in them? Did you tell them you were off around Europe (including the Alps, if I have understood the previous posts correctly)? Did you ask them at the MOT to take the wheels off to look - otherwise all that you will know is that they worked on the day. If they had gone after a couple of thousand miles, then OK you would have just cause - but after 4,000 miles I'm not so sure.


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