# Leisure battery not charging



## Mattyrodill

Hi,
The leisure batteries (2) on my Rapido 941M decided not to charge whilst coming home from France over the weekend.
I checked fuses and found the 30amp fuse above the sink had melted the plastic so I changed it, the 15amp middle fuse under the driver seat had melted plastic so I change that, the ribbon fuse next to the battery had blown so I changed that and the blade fuse next to the batteries had broken so I change that. 
Although I drove over 300 miles and have a 120 solar panel and when I got home put on EHU the batteries remain flat.
Any theories what can have cause melt outs and why I'm not charging.
Am I missing something? 
Is there something I haven't covered?
I wouldn't be surprised!
Thanks


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## DABurleigh

Do you have and can you use a multimeter?

Dave


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## Mattyrodill

Not sure what a multimeter is, sorry. I have a Ring Charger but thought I'd give the mains ehu a chance first. Should I put the Ring Charger on now?


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## bigcats30

I would highly recommend to buy (not very expensive) and learn to use a multimeter.....dead easy

They can save you 100's compared to what you pay to buy one (mine was 10 quid from maplins)

Dead easy to use (instruction and millions of vids on Youtube)

your Motorhome is a 12v system so is very easy to find faults etc without killing yourself

Get one....you will realise quickly how simple they are and how helpful they can be when you want to do a bit of DIY.

It really is pointless for people to try and tell you things on here without this much needed cheap and useful tool.


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## DABurleigh

Yup.

Buy one, learn how to use it or resign to putting the van into the garage and paying whatever they say every time you have an electrical problem.

Dave


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## Mattyrodill

Thanks
Just ordered a multimeter, should arrive Tuesday.

Which areas should I check with the meter? How do I check a fuse?


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## adonisito

First thing i would do is check the van batteries with your new multi meter with nothing on, they may read well below 12v.
THEN plug the van in. Put the multi meter on the leisure batteries, you should get around 14v on each. If you don't then they are not charging from hook up. That's step 1.


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## Mattyrodill

Thanks

Is it possible for you to go through possible outcomes and what they might mean?

I.E. at what stage do I need new batteries? They are Banner and not particularly old I don't think.

Also what is causing plastic on fuses to melt?

Thanks in anticipation of some more help!


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## cabby

I think you should do this by numbers, so do step1 and let us know what you get, best not to jump to conclusions yet.
Also where are you located in the UK just in case we have a member or can recommend someone near to you.
I have to admit that all those melt downs have me worried.
how long have you had the Rapido, was all working while away.

cabby


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## Mattyrodill

Hi
I'm in East Yorkshire near Beverley. I've had the Rapido for 6 years now.
Everything seemed to be working o.k. staying on aires, until the penultimate evening when we were watching tele, not on hook up, and the beeper started to beep batteries running low. We switched everything off and went to bed. 
We had a long journey the next day towards Calais so I expected the batteries to recharge but nothing happened. When we got to Gravelines I replaced all the fuses as I said but no change or on the way up to Yorkshire, by the time we got home everything was completely dead.
Fortunately engine battery worked perfectly so we started first time, every time. I hooked up to ehu at home but no change. 
Should I use Ring battery charger tomorrow?


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## rayc

Mattyrodill said:


> Hi
> I'm in East Yorkshire near Beverley. I've had the Rapido for 6 years now.
> Everything seemed to be working o.k. staying on aires, until the penultimate evening when we were watching tele, not on hook up, and the beeper started to beep batteries running low. We switched everything off and went to bed.
> We had a long journey the next day towards Calais so I expected the batteries to recharge but nothing happened. When we got to Gravelines I replaced all the fuses as I said but no change or on the way up to Yorkshire, by the time we got home everything was completely dead.
> Fortunately engine battery worked perfectly so we started first time, every time. I hooked up to ehu at home but no change.
> Should I use Ring battery charger tomorrow?


None of us know a lot about your system. We do not know the battery voltage now or why the on board charger appears not to be charging it so can't advise on the Ring charger.. As you appear to have a very limited knowledge of volts and amps etc my suggestion is pay for an hour time of a local mobile auto electrician.


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## cabby

I agree with Rayc. although you are keen this should be looked at by an electrician. 
I have just one question, when you changed the fuses did you check to see if they had all failed, or just melted their holders.

added to this, can anyone suggest an electrician in the Beverly area, or a dealer who is good.

cabby


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## gaspode

I'd add my weight to the two posts from rayc and cabby, they make perfect sense.

Although learning to understand and use a multimeter is a laudible thing to do, I don't think that this is the time to do it. Although you're not likely to risk electric shock by tinkering with 12v circuits it sounds to me from your descriptions that you run a very real risk of causing a fire if you have no concept of what you're tinkering with. I've experienced short circuits in vehicle wiring looms on many occasions and I can tell you that thousands of pounds worth of damage can be caused in just a few seconds by a simple mistake.

You've made a couple of statements in earlier posts about plastic fuses melting. That says to me that somewhere there is a full or partial short circuit in your wiring or an appliance. Even though it's only 12v the danger is very real from overheating. There's a lot of potential energy stored in a leisure battery and if you were unfortunate enough to melt internal wiring you could easily have a serious fire to contend with. Don't try to recharge the batteries, you could make things worse.

Therefore my advice is not to try to solve it yourself, get someone who knows what they're doing, even if it does cost a few quid, it will be money well spent.

Something else that struck me was that you said you'd had the Rapido 6 years. You also said that you didn't think the leisure batteries were very old. Unless you've replaced them yourself (and if so you should know exactly how old they are) they're more than 6 years old - so they almost certainly need replacing.


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## Mattyrodill

Morning all,

Been on ehu all night,leisure batteries now reading 13.7. Solar panel working, two green lights, (info and power )

But why didn't batteries charge whilst on route from Dover to home? 270 miles?

Any suggestions what to do next?

Thanks again to all helpers for advice.


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## rayc

Mattyrodill said:


> Morning all,
> 
> Been on ehu all night,leisure batteries now reading 13.7. Solar panel working, two green lights, (info and power )
> 
> But why didn't batteries charge whilst on route from Dover to home? 270 miles?
> 
> Any suggestions what to do next?
> 
> Thanks again to all helpers for advice.


Switch EHU off.
After 10 minutes measure battery voltage.
Start engine and measure battery voltage.
Report back.


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## nicholsong

Mattyrodill said:


> Morning all,
> 
> Been on ehu all night,leisure batteries now reading 13.7. Solar panel working, two green lights, (info and power )
> 
> But why didn't batteries charge whilst on route from Dover to home? 270 miles?
> 
> Any suggestions what to do next?
> 
> Thanks again to all helpers for advice.


Point one - listen to 'Gaspode' - I do because he only gives advice when he is sure of his ground.

Second point - for your education, I would assume that the reading of 13.7 is because you still have the EHU and/or the solar panel charging systems connected to the batteries and it is reading the voltage supplied from there. To find out the actual voltage retained in the batteries you would need to disconnect those charging supplies, let the batteries rest for 2 hours and then check the voltage.

Even then the voltage will not tell you how the battery will perform when you put a load on it.

As Gaspode said if you have had the batteries for 6 years they are probably ready for replacement.

But I agree with those who have said that with your demonstrated level of knowledge you need professional help. However by asking questions from that professional you could gain knowledge/experience for the future.

Good Luck

Geoff


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## cabby

I really am not sure why you are asking for advice as you are not responding to it and continue to do your own thing.

There is a reason why all those fuse holders melted and you are not qualified to know or find out why. You van needs a proper electrician to check out the whole system before even more damage is done, which may cost you a terrific loss.


cabby


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## Mattyrodill

Mobile caravan/motorhome local repair man ( have used previously ) has arrived, switched off ehu. Coming back after lunch to check how batteries are retaining charge.
Thanks for advice. Will update!


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## cabby

Glad to hear this, but you do need to know why the fuses melted, there is a major problem in the circuits.

cabby


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## rosalan

If he should determine that the batteries need replacement, I would be inclined to pause for a minute as the problem of melted fuses is unlikely to be caused by discharged batteries.

The question and problem is.... what caused such a serious short circuit burning out the fuses.

Alan

p.s. you are very wise listening to Gaspode!


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## Mattyrodill

Charge holding up well at 12.6 but no increase when engine started, although engine battery does take a charge so problem with charging leisure from engine.

One of melted fuses was in relay under front driver's seat and it looks like some melted plastic is still in fuse holder although I did take a new fuse in but the plastic might be hampering current through it.

There are three relays under driver's seat but I can't find any info on them in my very amateurish Rapido handbook. Anyone any ideas?

Am trying to replace relay part but local auto part dealers do not recognise part so waiting for Wokingham Rapido to get back to me re replacement parts. Any other supplier suggestions..it's a Hella part has 4RA followed by 00351086 Made in Germany. It's a Merc engine and chassis.

No firm ideas of what caused melting of fuses or exactly when it might have happened.


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## cronkle

Mattyrodill said:


> No firm ideas of what caused melting of fuses or exactly when it might have happened.


You need to find out otherwise the new part is likely to go the same way and may cause a fire.

ps I hit the thank instead of the quote button


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## gaspode

Mattyrodill said:


> Am trying to replace relay part but local auto part dealers do not recognise part so waiting for Wokingham Rapido to get back to me re replacement parts. Any other supplier suggestions..it's a Hella part has 4RA followed by 00351086 Made in Germany. It's a Merc engine and chassis.


Phone Hella UK on Tel. +44 1295 272233
They're very helpful and have lots of UK stockists.


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## cabby

Do not want to be rude, but you really have no idea of what you are doing, so again PLEASE get professional help.

cabby


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## Mattyrodill

Found the parts on Ebay, Hella 12v fused make and break 4 terminal relay.

Spoke to Wokingham Rapido who couldn't locate the parts but seemed to think the possible "short" may have been caused by the fuses above the sink being slightly loose and not having a good fit. Suggested I pinch up the terminals to ensure they fuses were more secure. 
This is possible as fuses have been a little less than snug!

Batteries still off charge and registering constant 12.6.

need to concentrate on engine charging now.

Thanks to all for positive support, this site is invaluable in so many ways!


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## DABurleigh

It's not clear to me exactly what the 4 fuses you replaced actually did, and least of all why all should fail. You also have a question mark over the split charge relay or its equivalent.

Very often the SYMPTOMS you describe can be caused by the leisure battery running flat, and the resultant large charging current from the alternator on start-up being in excess of a fuse capacity between alternator and leisure battery. But with your multiple fuse failures, that simple scenario doesn't ring true.

It's not clear you have understood the cautionary advice on here. If you've understood it, perhaps you would indicate why you are ignoring it.

Dave


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## Mattyrodill

Not sure where this ignoring advice is coming from. I have called in the local mobile caravan/motorhome repair man as i stated in yesterday,s post. He looked at system yesterday and contacted two of his colleagues who are auto electricians. Waiting for them to contact me. In the meantime system has been running o.k. except lack of charge from engine to leisure. Have ordered multimeter, as suggested, and also new relay part in case the excess melted plastic in original is a problem.
Reading 12.0 this morning.
Repair man will return to fit new relay part when they arrive. 
Also taken advice from wokingham rapido so think i,ve listened to lots of people in order to do the right things.


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## HarleyDave

I think the problem is that you are not being sufficiently humble and not thanking the experts profusely enough.

It's your van - do what you think is right - but don't ask for help and then seem to be ignoring it when offered.

Cheers

Dave

PS did any of the fuses actually "blow" or did they just (!) get hot (possibly due to being loose in their holders)?


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## Mattyrodill

I'm very sorry if I haven't thanked everyone who's trying to help, I thought I had said thanks to everyone in my posts. 
I'm not terribly familiar with the format of the forum regarding posts as I usually just enjoy reading other people's thoughts and not contributing as such.

Hope that expresses my feeling of gratitude for everyone who's been so helpful.

With regard to melting fuses, the one in the relay melted to the point of having to get a scredriver to prise it out whilst the 30amp one above the sink melted a little bit. Neither fuse appeared by the naked eye to be damaged. The ribbon fuse near the batteries had blown and the blade fuse near the batteries appeared to be broken.

Charge has come up to 13.1 in the sunshine!


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## cabby

The point is that you have all those melted fuse holders and no idea as to why, agree you did get an mobile mechanic, who unfortunately did not know the answer and yet you still persist in running the system without concern about what might be a dangerous fault. Until known there is a fire risk.
You need to have a qualified electrician check and test all circuits looking for faults. To also see if any cabling has also melted.
It may be found that it was only loose fuses in the holders, but none of us would take the risk you are taking.

12volts are just as much a fire risk as 230 volts.

cabby

ps. have you changed the fuse holders that melted or just the fuses.

We all understand the utter frustration of your situation and thank you for keeping the replies coming. But we do worry that you might be risking your van safety in trying to sort out the problem which to be honest is beyond your skills, judging by your comments.


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## Mattyrodill

Electrician in today to test circuits etc. Checked out relays under front seat and all were good. Other wiring/connections including near leisure batteries fine.

Problem seemed to be centred on Battery Separator/coupler, Scheiber unit above sink as it was receiving 14+ from engine but not passing anything on to leisure batteries or fridge. 

He thought this had also been cause of overheating and part melting of plastic in fuses, fuse holders not melted.

Need to contact Wokingham Rapido re replacement unless anyone knows of any other source.

Thanks to all for continued interest.

Much appreciated.


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## cabby

Just re-read your original post and as you say, the fuses had melted plastic not the fuse holders. I obviously did not read it properly.
Really glad you got an electrician on the job. Hope the faults will be rectified with a reasonable cost.

cabby


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## rayc

Mattyrodill said:


> Electrician in today to test circuits etc. Checked out relays under front seat and all were good. Other wiring/connections including near leisure batteries fine.
> 
> Problem seemed to be centred on Battery Separator/coupler, Scheiber unit above sink as it was receiving 14+ from engine but not passing anything on to leisure batteries or fridge.
> 
> He thought this had also been cause of overheating and part melting of plastic in fuses, fuse holders not melted.
> 
> Need to contact Wokingham Rapido re replacement unless anyone knows of any other source.
> 
> Thanks to all for continued interest.
> 
> Much appreciated.


Is it anything like this?
http://www.euro4x4parts.com/parts/qen1036_scheiber_battery_coupler_seperator_12v_high_power.html

or this?
http://www.euro4x4parts.com/parts/qen1035_scheiber_battery_coupler_seperator_12v_low_power.html

or this?
http://www.euro4x4parts.com/parts/qen1037_scheiber_battery_coupler12v_high_power_3_output.html

I can't see why a simple dual split charger relay as used in motorhomes and caravans couldn't be used at a fraction of the price. One such as this;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30AMP-Auto-dual-charging-trailer-towing-towbar-relay-/310751301115


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## Mattyrodill

Thanks for the support.

The third one is the most likely as my original has three fuses, a 15, a 20 and a 30amp.

One is for the fridge, one for the electric step and the thirty for the 12v system. But the configuration is not the same so I'll try Wokingham Rapido tomorrow.

I did read where you can get one from France but it's more expensive and I've a feeling if I can get one from Wokingham it will be expensive enough!

Thanks again.


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## rayc

Mattyrodill said:


> Thanks for the support.
> 
> The third one is the most likely as my original has three fuses, a 15, a 20 and a 30amp.
> 
> One is for the fridge, one for the electric step and the thirty for the 12v system. But the configuration is not the same so I'll try Wokingham Rapido tomorrow.
> 
> I did read where you can get one from France but it's more expensive and I've a feeling if I can get one from Wokingham it will be expensive enough!
> 
> Thanks again.


Scheiber are a French manufacturer who provide lots of bespoke electronic parts for various French and possibly other motorhome manufactures. There was a special box, The 'Boite Feux Lateraux', in my Chausson to operate the side marker lamps which were triggered from the X250 cab side light circuit. I wanted a circuit diagram for it and emailed them to be told they will only deal with manufacturers and I should consult Chausson.

A photo for interest attached.


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## Mattyrodill

Been in touch with Rapido Wokingham today and although most staff are at NEC found out they had sold the last separator yesterday!

More cominmg in next week so I can check the Euro 4x4 one against their stock one.

Sounds like Wokingham will be more expensive though so Euro 4x4 ( the last ref. one ) might do the trick
Thanks Ray


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## Mattyrodill

Hi again,

Update! A bit long I'm afraid.

The new part, a battery coupler/separator arrived yesterday from Rapido Wokingham, they'd been out of stock and waiting for deliveries from Rapido for quite a while. 

In the meantime I'd tried to buy one direct from France, saw one on Ebay starting bid 37 euros, last one sold for 45 euros but supplier would not ship to England, saw another one in a specialist motorhome company "Accessories Diffusion Loisirs" for 54 euros but supplier again would not ship to England. This company has everything you would need if you could arrange intermediary handler!

euro4x4 parts.com were very helpful and eventually we sorted the correct part number Scheiber 38.14701.00 although they hadn't got one on their website they found one for me at a price of 115.78 euros including shipping. They were extremely helpful.

I'd also been in touch with Scheiber direct and that's how I was able to discover the exact part I needed as the original part was no longer being made and had been replaced. They also agreed to ship it to England for 124 euros.

However before either French company had got back to me with shipping and add on costs, the units only cost around 50 euros, Wokingham had got back to me, original cost £150. I managed to get them down to £125 as I'd told them how cheap the units were in France. They were very helpful throughout and gave good advice.

Now waiting for the electrician to return and fit it on Friday.

End of saga, I hope!

Thanks to all who have contributed.


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## Geriatricbackpacker

Thanks for the update...what a bl**dy rip off though! I hope after all this you get it sorted.

Terry


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## rayc

I may not understand exactly all the functions of a battery separator but as far as I can see it does nothing that a £15 split charger relay system does.


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## Mattyrodill

It was the add ons that made the price from France go up so much, as follows if supplied direct from the manufacturer Scheiber:

Cost of part 53.00 euros + VAT

Admin costs 12.00 euros + VAT

Banking expenses 28.00 euros + VAT

Transport 16.00 euros 

total = 127.38 euros

Wokingham Rapido were very fair, in fact they said the cost to them from Rapido was £120 and you can believe that based on the cost direct from Scheiber so I have to say Wokingham Rapido were very helpful and I would go to them again.

With all the add ons listed by Scheiber you can see why the French Ebay company and the Loisir company would not ship to England.

I'm just grateful to get the correct part and looking forward to it working again.


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## rayc

Mattyrodill said:


> Banking expenses 28.00 euros + VAT


Unbelievable! Is this what trading with the EEC is all about?


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## HyFy

*Not EEC (EU)...*

That's not trading with the EEC(EU). You are talking about trading with France. That's a whole different ball game.

A couple of years ago when I lived there, I ordered a part on-line for my ancient Renault engined Jeep. The first thing I received was a chit from the sellers for me to take to my bank to authorise the bank to pay the seller for the part. You're right. I gave up and ordered it from the US!

HyFy

PS 25 per cent of the French working population are "Fonctionaires". They are the administrators and rule-setters/appliers. The other 75 per cent spend their whole time working out how not to abide by the rules set by the 25 per cent...


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