# Fuel Consumption



## 102754 (Feb 1, 2007)

I hope this is not one of those annoying questions that newbies ask over and over again - usually in the wrong place!

I've only just joined but spent about an hour browsing and I can't find a better place to ask this:

I'm concerned about fuel consumption on my Peugeot Boxer 2L petrol Autosleeper Symphony.

We owned a talbot rambler and on purchase were told - 'pump tyres up to 70 psi and you'll get upper 20 mpg!' - never got more than about 21.

on purchase of this Peugeot the dealer said 'mid 30s easily'.

On a long flat motorway and A road run to East Anglia from the Midlands we never exceeded 50mph and managed 31mpg but have never managed this again.

Going into hilly Wales we managed 25 mpg at best.

Using locally, very carefully we manage 21mpg at best.

I've googled and googled but can find no sites that suggest what is reasonable.

Any help here please?


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

woodpecker2 said:


> Going into hilly Wales we managed 25 mpg at best.


Hi woodpecker2

Welcome to MHF.

Unlike dealers we're pretty honest at MHF and if you're getting 25mpg in the Welsh hills I for one think you're doing pretty well on a 2ltr petrol engine.


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## devonidiot (Mar 10, 2006)

Hello Woodpecker.

I'm also concerned about fuel consumption. I've a '97 Ducato with a 2.5 diesel engine from which I can only get an average of 23mpg. It's only a two berth, therefore the weight is fairly low. I read with envy the m/h's who seem to get 30mpg, I wish I knew how!


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi devonidiot

Here's my theory about reported MPG figures.......

You know how men are reputed to use a different sort of tape measure to women when measuring certain body parts? :wink: 

Well I think a similar theory applies to the measurement of miles and motorhomes. The affliction seems to be particularly severe in M/H salesmen (as indeed it probably is in car salesmen), probably due to the stresses of their occupation, their sincere desire to be your best friend and their own perception of their attractiveness to women. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I don't think I've EVER got anywhere near the best, average, normal or reasonable fuel consumption from any vehicle.

For our 1.9 TD, I'm in the low 20s. I sometimes kid myself that I'll average 25, but I think it's usually around 22-23  And we're not carting around huge weights (apart from me, that is).

Gerald


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi and wecome -I must agree with gaspode on this if you are getting 25mpg on a 2ltr petrol that is bloody good! I would have thought nearer 20/1 !
After many years driving all kinds of vans for my work i have found average mpg as follows
transit petrol 20/22mpg
transit derv 26/27 ( flat out or steady)
pegout/citeron,fiat derv24/27
merc/vw simular but with lots ot torque
my own 2.8 td iveco is averaging about 28/30 on m/way at a steady 70+!!! which I am realy impressed with as this is no light weight and i am not the lightest on my right foot.

(ambulance conversion,not long finished)--if anyone could learn me how to get photos on here I will post some as this is realy nice conversion of which i am v/proud of finished product--
cheers terry


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## 88841 (May 9, 2005)

I have tested my autotrail cheyenne 2.8idtd on a number of occasions and has being getting 28/29mpg each time. At the beginning I thought i was calculating wrong so I got someone else to calculate and they came up with the same figures. I am well pleased


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi again forgot to mention anything with a great bump on it's head will be nearer 22 mpg derv or 17/18 petrol (if you have a tail wind) cheers terry


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

> You know how men are reputed to use a different sort of tape measure to women when measuring certain body parts?


I like that one, dealers are certainly guilty of this. I always ask the salesman when I am looking (not sure why) and they all say 30+MPG.

Fiat are guilty as well 23% better fuel economy out of the new 2.3 compared to the old 2.8? Time will tell. But I don't think they will be that much better.

Richard...

PS> Only drive on down hill routes when you have a tail wind as well. That should get 30+mpg no problem. OR and don't go over 45MPH.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

maddie said:


> (ambulance conversion,not long finished)--if anyone could learn me how to get photos on here I will post some as this is realy nice conversion of which i am v/proud of finished product--
> cheers terry


Here you are, Terry. Check >> this guide here <<

Gerald


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks Gerald Iwill get my camera out tomoz and have a go I have tried in the past but never managed it 
Terry


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## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

I have maintained a Spreadsheet for my Peugeot 1.9td Nuevo since taking delivery in 2002.

My average consumption over that period (over 32000 miles) is 26.2 mpg
This is for touring all over the UK, and also to France and Spain.

I'm not heavy on the pedal, and mostly cruise on the open road at around 55 - 60 mph.

Maybe the newer Hdi engine can achieve more than the Holy Grail figure of 30mpg, but I'd be more impressed if they were backed up by a long term analysis.


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## klubnomad (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi

I have an 06 2.3 ducato - 10000 miles - YES I use it every week. At 50 mph it returned about 23 on a trip from Peterborough to Slough - A1M - M25 - M4 - on a Friday afternoon. Time taken 3 1/2 hours due to traffic. The return journey - Sunday evening - it returned 29 mpg at 55 mph. Time taken 2 hours 20 mins. Same roads but this time they were quiet. I should add that with both trips, I used the Cruise Control. Last week, same trip, same days and at 60 and 55 mph without Cruise it returned 26 and 30 mpg. Friday time was about the same and Sunday was about 2 hours 10. The trouble with cruise control is that it tries to keep the set speed up. Going up hill it uses full pedel where as normally you feather the pedel and back off when you reach your desired speed. The cruise does back off but at the slightest drop in speed - about 10% - its pedel to the floor again. Now I use the cruise when in speed control areas and on flatish roads.

Dave

656


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

I get at best 24mpg in my 2.5 TD and thats an average.

I think the newer ones do better with them being the newer type of common rail (JTD/HDI).

If I ever start to worry about my fuel consumption, I know its maybe time to trade the mh in for a tent??!! :wink:


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

[Fiat are guilty as well 23% better fuel economy out of the new 2.3 compared to the old 2.8? Time will tell. But I don't think they will be that much better.]
Hi I have a 2.3 fiat derv and I get 30mpg average. In saying this my mh is a low profile


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## 102754 (Feb 1, 2007)

Thanks for the comments everybody.

Although the Symphony is smaller than some of the vans mentioned and I drive quite slowly it is petrol so I guess it must be reasonably O.K.

I had thought about changing for a diesel but it doesn't look as though it's worth the fuss/ expense at the moment

Thanks again

Roger


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Fuel economy*

Hello

My Compass with a Peugeot 2.2HDI yielded almost 29 mpg on it's trip to Italy last year.

This van - Fiat 2.8 JTD did about 24 mpg on average coming to Italy - and that was towing a car.

In the UK, when not towing, I did manage about 26 mpg.

Russell


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

You lot have made my day :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I love the honesty from you all as opposed to the sales pitch......
We have a 6.5 litre turbo diesel with an auto box and nearly 7 tons of motorhome to drag along (although it is extremely aerodynamic :roll: :roll: ) and we get about 15 MPG. I think it is really good to get that sort of mileage and looking at some of the figures quoted here is not that desperately far from some of your MPG figures.
I also use cruise control quite a lot of the time, and occasionally it changes down to go uphill and you can hear that the firing rate has gone up from once every other lamppost to almost twice per every other lamppost :lol: :lol: :lol: , can't say that I have noticed any difference between using cruise and not with regard to fuel usage.....
When we had out 2.0 litre petrol Fiat Swift Kon Tiki we only ever got about 20 MPG, so if that helps........

Keith


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*MPG*

I hope this helps,

Before I go onto our Motorhome MPG I have this problem. (motorhome MPG further on)

I had a VW T5 174 LWB Van, purchased New from a VW Dealership it was full of faults (inc those leaky windows) and we had an issue with the dealer over the original specification.

MPG Averages of 35-38

After a long battle they replaced it with a new VW T5 174. This one has several faults and has been back to teh dealership god knows how many times and is due to go back again. One of the major issues

MPG Average is never over 25 !!!

Now then you try convincing a dealer that there is a problem with it. I have driven 10 of these VW T5's with the 174 engine and with the exception of my current one none has never returned less than 32MPG.

Onto the Motorhome

It is a Merc Sprinter Luton plated to a shade under 5,000kG on 2 recent round trips to Spain each covering 3,000 miles fully loaded on both occasions it returned 26MPG. This I think for a 5t that is about as arodynamic as pile of bricks is Excellent. Shorter trips 22MPG and have managed with low weight and flat roads 30 MPG but only just.

When buying the VW I was given the sales talk that VW's TDi Pumpe Dusse is far more effecient than Mercedes common rail CDi. I have recently when speaking with VW mentioned this to them (that my Mercedes CDi 5 tonne luton van returns as much as as our Pumpe Dusse Streamline T5). The answer was that whilst they can compare apples with apples they cannot compare apples with pears.

There are many factors that affect MPG. Driving style, tyres, tyre pressures, load etc. But the same driver driving identical apples I cannot get my head round or more importanlty convince the Staff at VW that there is a problem. The next time it goes in one of the Senior managemt is test driving the Van for 2 days.

In answer to your issue. I think 20's for a petrol MH that will always be classed as carrying a load is pretty good going really.

I hope my long winded reply helps you

Trev


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## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

My previous van was on a Renault 2.2 ltr. Petrol. That returned an average of 22.5 mpg over the time I had it.


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## 101411 (Oct 15, 2006)

Oh my God!!

I've always had American RVs and never really given the MPG that much thought. I get about 15ish to the gallon with my 6.8L V10 draggin 5.5 tonnes around. I never realised European M/H were so inefficient.

Mind you my friend has a Mitsubishi Shogun and uses it for towing his caravan. He recons he gets about 12 miles to the gallon with it!!!

I am shocked i thought most Euro models would have done 35+mpg. You live and learn!

Dazzer


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

The main reason that you don't get the economy forecast by the company literature is to do with speed and drag. Dependant upon the body shape at a certain speed most of your fuel goes to pushing air out of the way. 

Quote from Wikipedia

"The formula for air drag is usually written as a "constant" times the frontal area times the square of the car's speed. The constant depends mostly on streamlining and cooling air flow but is also weakly dependent on the area and speed, through the effect of the Reynolds number. Therefore, at high speeds, where air drag dominates the total drag and the engine efficiency changes slowly, the fuel consumption is roughly proportional to the square of the car's speed. Air drag is greater with the windows open or the top down."


Manufacturer's are not allowed to make outlandish claims and have to have their vehicles tested for fuel consumption (that isn't to say they might present a tweeked example for testing . In EU and UK the highest speed used is 75mph and that for only a small part of the test.

I'm not sure that someone taking a base chassis and converting it to a motorcaravan has to have the fuel consumption properly tested and therefore any figure they give must be either that for the base vehicle or some made up figure which they will have to surround in disclaimers.

No test can replicate your driving style but dependance upon cruise control addition of drag components such as awnings solar panels etc make things worse. Also the aerodynamics of some designs are quite frankly appalling. Most motorhomes are driven without violent acceleration and braking so the penalties of that sort of driving are avoided.

For the record although I often go faster than 75 I'm still returning 34-36mpg for my Renault (2.5l TDi 2,800kg when last weighed) which is better than Renults quoted figures. I put this down to my gentle driving style that results in me hardly ever wasting energy by too much braking. Doreen thinks its because she nags me if I'm not in 6th 

Regards Frank


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*MPG*



kands said:


> You lot have made my day :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> I love the honesty from you all as opposed to the sales pitch......
> We have a 6.5 litre turbo diesel with an auto box and nearly 7 tons of motorhome to drag along (although it is extremely aerodynamic :roll: :roll: ) and we get about 15 MPG. I think it is really good to get that sort of mileage and looking at some of the figures quoted here is not that desperately far from some of your MPG figures.
> I also use cruise control quite a lot of the time, and occasionally it changes down to go uphill and you can hear that the firing rate has gone up from once every other lamppost to almost twice per every other lamppost :lol: :lol: :lol: , can't say that I have noticed any difference between using cruise and not with regard to fuel usage.....
> ...


By comparison Keith, a 12 tonne Bova coach, with an 11.6 litre DAF engine, going as quick at the limiter would allow, 5 tonnes of people and luggage on board and the air con running - never had less than 11mpg and even been as good as 15.

They are unusual however in their aeodynamic styling, when compared to other "flat fronted" coaches.

Russell


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi just a thought-about 30yrs ago i read a test on a 4.2 jag!
at 30mph it returned 18.3 mpg-ish
at 50mph-------------18.0mpg-
at 70mph................18.0mpg
at 100mph-----------17.7mpg
and i thought that was amusing!
terry


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## SidT (May 9, 2005)

After reading some of the complaints from M/H's last year about poor fuel consumption ,I carefully checked my consumption on two long trips abroad. I have a lowline Moncayo with the 2.8 JTD engine, 3500kg.
In England I hate the 300 miles to Dover so drive on the motorways at 70/75 and returned 27mpg, taking it easy in France and Germany sticking around 60mph on 3 tankfulls I returned 30/31mph. I was surprised the difference the 10 mph made. quite happy with 30mph.
Cheers Sid


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## Yeti (Jan 17, 2006)

*Fuel consumption figures*

Hi All
Just to add my tenpeno'th to the thread. We have a '91 Burstner T610 Peugot 2.5TD with intercooler.

We have just come down to Pisa in Italy from UK fully loaded at 3500kg for 2 Months and towing a Smart on a trailer logging 1180 miles in total.

To my surprise by driving at a steady 90kmph on the flat and giving it wellie on the mountains and passes we have averaged 28 mpg !

I must admit I did not beleive it at first but the "boss lady "checked and double checked the receipts and speedo and it was correct whoopee!!

Incidentally the total cost on the tolls was only 42 euros plus 40chf for the vignette in Switzerland

Class 2 in France and class 3 in Italy

Cracking result Grommit


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: Fuel consumption figures*



Yeti said:


> Hi All
> Just to add my tenpeno'th to the thread. We have a '91 Burstner T610 Peugot 2.5TD with intercooler.
> 
> We have just come down to Pisa in Italy from UK fully loaded at 3500kg for 2 Months and towing a Smart on a trailer logging 1180 miles in total.
> ...


Hi

Totally off topic, I came through Switzerland in January and the sold me one vignette for the motorhome and another for the Corsa - even though it was behind me on the A frame!

Did you get away with one or two?

Russell


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## Shen (Jan 14, 2006)

*We get..*

Frankly we do not get enough from our Peugeot 2.5 turbo.

I would be much happier with a 2.8 or three litre and that 6th gear would make a huge odds too, we only have 5.

At 60 we get about 27-29, and at 70 we get 20-23 ish. Which is frankly rubbish.

Best we ever had she was driving and doing a wonderful job of keeping to the 60 - 63 to max the consumption then we realised we had managed to leave a dog behind..................   

*Embarassed cough*

shen...


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## 99524 (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi

we are getting about 23 mpg from our 2.8jtd Fiat - Carthago T47 weighing about 4 te. This seems to be independant of how I drive it - m'way at 60, hills in derbyshire - just pootling on RN's in France. 

Incidently this is also what Lowdhams told me so not all sales people are apt to exaggerate.

Richard


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Hi Woodpecker2! 

Like Geranpasa, we have the AS Pollensa Peugeot 1.9td. Most times we are lugging 2.9 tonnes. 

From home to Dover, 257 miles, we use nearly a full tank of diesel, giving around 23.5mpg. But that journey involves maybe 6 hours of rapid driving, staying with the flow, up hill, down dale, on very busy motorways. It doesn't seem appropriate to travel at 55 - 60mph on such a journey, just to try conserving fuel.

Once we're over the Channel, we fill up, leave the autoroutes behind, and continue our holiday at 40 - 60mph. Not only do we have time to admire the villages and scenery, we also manage towards 380 miles on a tank of fuel, returning around 29mpg. 

It's not just about driving style, it's also about how we respond to the numerous situations created by other road-users. When the roads are empty, fuel economy improves!!

Best wishes from UncleNorm


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

I personally never bother with what my M-home is doing per gallon (as long as its not draining like it had a leak lol). I know its a 2.8ltr turbo diesel pulling something that has the aerodynamics of a brick so I know its not going to do much. If I started worrying about MPG I would never take it out of the drive. 
When its getting empty I fill it up :wink: Don't worry just drive  
Johnny F


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## boosters (Nov 10, 2006)

*improved fuel economy*

One of the main reasons for poor fuel consumption on modern vehicles is due to the mapping in the vehicle ecu.Irrespective of where the vehicle is sold in the world market there is one map for example fiat 2.8 jtd which is manufactured for the engine to run on the worst possible grade fuel like in some african countries.To make the engine run on poor garde fuel the engine is detuned.The best way to overcome this is to have the engine remapped,by doing this all the imperfections are removed from the map giving 3 benefits upto 35% more torque and bhp and approx 10% better fuel economy.


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

My Elldis 400 on with a 2.2l Peugeot common rail gave 31.7 last year. That included a lot of steady 60 mph. I have just had to drive about 180 miles and was at a steady 70 on the motorways. That was nothing like so good!


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## 102586 (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: Fuel consumption figures*



Rapide561 said:


> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > Hi All
> ...


Easy answer to that one Russell.

_Anything_ towed, be it a Caravan, trailer, or car behind a MH will be charged another 40Sfr.

On the positive side is this.....40Sfr is just a measly £16.30 at todays exchange rate, which is not likely to affect the less well off. The vignette is valid for an entire 12 months use on all Autoroutes throughout Switzerland.

What a pity the same cannot be said about how UK Government intends to hit the motorist here with 'pay per mile' where low income earners will be immediately hit.


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## Ifor (Oct 21, 2006)

Renault Traffic 140 base raising roof camper. Used every day, average over 16000 miles 36.9. Min 32.2 too much illegally quick on the motorway. Max 44 over for two fills over 1300 miles in Spain and back through france. I managed to fill up with the more expensive of the two Diesels in Spain accidentally. I don't know if it helped but I got it again for the second tank full. The best I have managed in the UK is 41.9

Ifor


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## 100934 (Sep 10, 2006)

*If you want maximum fuel economy: -*

1) There is a rev count on your instrument panel.
2) Your vehicle handbook tells you the revs at which you get maximum torque.


 If you keep the revs within 500revs of the maximum torque figure, you will get maximum economy.

If you re-map your ecu, you may get different information on the revs for maximum torque.

There, in a nutshell, you have the pro's top economy tip.
Tip no two is to accelerate slowly.
No three is to cruise a bit slower.
No four is anticipate so that you slow down for traffic as little as possible.
No five is keep it rolling wherever possible.

The problem is, that the method is so simple, nobody would buy a book that needed less than one page so everybody writes complicated stuff in order to earn a few shekels.

Forget using the highest gear at which the engine will slog.
If the engine isn't reving above say 2200 rpms, the oil pump isn't pumping enough oil to keep the bearings cool.
The only reason tall cogs increase economy is because they slow down acceleration.
.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Krikit
Your post above may well be true IF.....
A) You have a rev counter
B) You can manually select the gear to keep within the torque band
C) You engine actually revs over 2200 RPM (mine never sounds as if it revs over about 600 RPM :lol: :lol: )

However in the main I think your advice is generally good, thanks :lol: 

Keith


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## 100934 (Sep 10, 2006)

A) You have a rev counter
B) You can manually select the gear to keep within the torque band

Keith[/quote]

If you wish to select your gears manually Kieth, just move the stick to the one you want, one of the plus points for an automatic.
You can get a rev counter for Yank diesels.

Cheers, Krikit.
.


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## 100407 (Aug 7, 2006)

My old Talbot does about 18 ish but i dont really care cos of its 140 litre LPG tanks. I just leave petrol in it for emergency.


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## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

maddie said:


> Hi just a thought-about 30yrs ago i read a test on a 4.2 jag!
> at 30mph it returned 18.3 mpg-ish
> at 50mph-------------18.0mpg-
> at 70mph................18.0mpg
> ...


I filled my Jag XKR 4.2 with £5 of petrol from empty. I emptied in two miles, work that one out 

Was awesome though!

Gary.


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