# Haven't Hymers come on in the last fifteen years?



## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

We have been lucky enough to come back to motorcaravanning after a break by buying a new B674 and having used it for a couple of trips, have had a chance to draw comparissons with our last Hymer, which was a 1990 model 694.

The new van is slightly shorter (garage constraints) and since we chose twin beds at the back, both the lounge part of the van at the front and the middle bit (bathroom and kitchen) are shorted. Happily clever design improvements seem to have compensated for this loss of space, especially in the bathroom. The way the back wall of the bathroom swings round over the toilet, complete with basin and mirror, to form a genuinely useful separate shower is really good and works well.

We opted for low level twin beds rather than the full size gargae model and so far no regrets. We still have lots of storage space (far more than our 694 model) and there is easy acces from both outside and under the beds.

The beds are also very comfortable. Our 694 had foam matresses on plywood bases, the new one has slats underneath a thicker matress - it makes quite a difference.

There are many other technical and design improvements and overall the 2006 Hymer is a much more comfortable and useable MH. The electric panel and charging arrangements are much better, the lighting and bug blinds, the roof vents, etc etc. I suppose 15 years of continuing development should have something to show for itself but I have been pleasantly surprised.

One thing I miss about the 694 was the more stable handling, especially on motorways when passing lorries etc - not that I did much passing of lorries in the 694 with its lower power and back in days when lorries were not governed to 56 mph. The B674 sways noticeable as I drive through a lorry's air turbulence whereas th 694 used to sit there completely unperturbed.

I chose LHD again, with no regrets. It has few if any penalties for me while driving in UK; you rarely overtake in a MH except on motorways and apart from that LHD is often helpful. I find myself clenching my buttocks occasionally as a 7.5 ton van hurtles towards me on a narrowish road when I think it is going to be a bit tight but LHD makes it easy to be confident that you have got well over on to the left side of the road and if in doubt I would stop an let the other guy be responsible for any contact between the vehicles. In practice it was rarely a problem in the 694 and I do not expect it to be a problem this time either.

The great advantage of LHD is of course that in addition to being on the "right" side of the road when driving on the Continent, it opens up options to buy your MH for a substantially lower cost. It is quite staggering to discover how much extra markup the official UK importer applies. No doubt they do pay HymerAG more for RHD chassis, but their proces for LHD models are greedily marked up too. I got a quote from Bundesvan (and Nick Legg was very patient and helpful as we gradually worked toward the precise specifcation of vehicle and extras) and then took it along to HymerUK to see if they would match it. They huffed and puffed about how generous they were being knocking £10,000 off the full price for me but were still well over £2,000 dearer than Bundesvan. Since BUndesvan buy from a German Hymer Dealer (and presumably that Dealer buys from HYmerAG for the same price HymerUK pay) I could not understand why HymerUK need to add their huge extra margin. No regrets about buying from Bundesvan, delivered to my door and no quibbles or difficulties about guarantee work either.

And the other issue, does my Hymer Europe-wide guarantee still apply? Well yes it does, and after some interesting correspondence with the Chief Executive of Brownhills (in which the subject of the Office of Fair Trading and anti-competitive business practice came up) it was acknowledged that HymerUK will honour the Hymer guarantee without artificially delaying or obstructing service, as their Salemen (and even their adverts) sometimes appear to threaten. If anyone ever has difficulty with HYmerUK about guarantee work I would be interested to hear about it; I have no doubt at all that they can easily be pursuaded to toe the line if necessary.

So in conclusion, Hymers are still very good MHs and still very well built. Perhaps not quite as bullet-proof in the construction as they used to be (no steel rollover cage any more) but well up to the job. We are delighted with ours. We looked at a great big US RV at Peterborough which really took our fancy as a live-in MH, but for the time being we are once again committed Hymer afficionados.

Stuart & Liz Ormerod


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

"Haven't Hymers come on in the last fifteen years?" - maybe they have a long gestation period. 8)


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

Hi I am pleased for you that you are happy with your purchase I feel sure you will enjoy it for many years to come.

Re brownhills I have never bought a MH from them so cant comment however their Parts department Hymer Uk are brilliant the chaps have been extremely helpful whether over the phone or in person on one occasion giving me 10% off even without asking and on another sent me a part free it was only 50p but thats not the point. The postage and packaging cost more.

Roy


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Brownhills and Parts*

I have had good experience of Brownhills Parts s far too; indeed I have nothing against Brownhills at all; their salesman was excellent but the pricing was outside his hands. Just a pity they were unwilling to be competitive and sell me a MH for the same price another official Hymer Dealer (albeit indirectly) was willing to supply for.

Stuart


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Some good info there. Would you be able to put it on the Motorhome Reviews part of the site?


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## smick (Jun 1, 2005)

*Haven't Hymers come on*

Hmmm... well, the design part is certainly good, but I don't think that the quality of build is as good as it was in the mid to late 90's. I've met a few who complain about flimsy doors, and poor trim parts. When we've looked at new Hymers, some of the detail work which used to be common in the older vans is not there in the newest ones. But that's probably true of other vans as well, and some are definitely catching Hymer in terms of their design, build quality and attitude to the customer.

In my view, Hymer have made a major error in entrusting their British network to one dealer. If we had half a dozen to choose from, you would soon notice a difference in how the dealer responded to customer complaints ! With a sole dealer, I suspect that the same thing will happen shortly to Euromobil and Karmann.

Parts supply is with Hymer, as others have noted, usually excellent. Service appears to be distinctly patchy, and sales are quite frankly a waste of time. The profit margin which is expected means that for most of us, we can't wait to look elsewhere for a better deal. And there are some good importers out there, and some good independent servicing and sales.

You pays your money and you takes your choice...

Smick


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## JustRadio (May 21, 2005)

Single dealer status is a double edged sword for the manufacturer/brand owner. On the one hand it suffers all the things you say, but on the other hand the import/distributor will not be as committed to advertising, promotion, shows etc. if the possibility exists that you, the customer, can go somewhere and get a cheaper deal. If that were possible neither dealer would bother to advetise the products, and that burden would fall exlusively on the manufacturer.

The dealer who then felt most aggrieved would go off and look for a better brand to represent.


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## RASSER (May 6, 2007)

*HYMER WARRANTY ON IMPORTS-SPOTS ON BLINDS*


Hi Stuart, just picked up your posting regarding Hymer attitude to warranties on imports. (Haven't Hymers come on )I also imported a B544L from Germany last year using Bundesvan. My blinds have now started showing black spots, which I seem to remember reading somewhere was a bad batch in 2005.
I contacted Brownhills (the sole UK agent) who told me to pay up front and they would then TRY to reclaim! Not likely, so they agreed that they would take photos and submit a report to obtain prior approval. When I took the van down on Friday they prepared the report but the assistant told me that her boss had told her that I would have to submit it myself as I didn't buy from them and Hymer AG will only refund when the blinds have been returned to Germany for inspection!! My reply:-
-don't Hymer AG trust their sole agent in UK to inspect them?
-do Brownhills return the blinds (and any other warranty claims ) from their customers to Germany? If so this explains why parts from them are so expensive.
-they confirmed that the blind manufacturer and Hymer have acknowledged this is a regular problem, so why the delay? 
-When I queried the warranty being less on imports I was told this was because they are on European chassis! (Didn't know Brownhills/Hymer built them in UK!!) and the warranty starts when leaves factory, even if stuck at dealers in Germany unregistered!!
I mentioned your comments re CEO and asked for his contact details at which point attitude changed slightly. Now waiting for service manager to return to work on Monday for reponse.
Any thoughts?
Bob


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## RASSER (May 6, 2007)

*REMIS BLINDS*


Just been informed by Steve (SANDJ) that TINAGLENN posted on 070706 a statement by Remis UK that they would replace spotted blinds with new version. Will pass onto Brownhills for comment.
Bob


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

does this mean we should buy an old hymer and not a new one for quality, but the reverse if we want a modern one.

cabby


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## grouch (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi Rassa.

Would draw your attention to our posting under General Hints and Tips/Hymer Faults. Ours is a 2002 B584 imported new from Campirama

We had all this rubbish from Hymer UK about paying for the work and then hoping that they would be able to reclaim a proportion of the costs.

The warranty should start at the point of delivery to the customer. Our experience of Hymer UK and Germany over three and a half years of much aggravation and ill feeling resulted in us having to be somewhat brutal in our approach to the matter, eventually receiving a letter from Hymer UKs MD telling us to take our waranty business elsewhere.

Everyone of the many problems we have had with this vehicle have been solved but only with dogged perserverence. Make sure that at least any deisel expenses are claimed. This will have to go from the dealer through to Germany and takes time. You need to provide fuel receipts.

At lot of people find it easier to go to Bad Waldsee and make it a part of a holiday.

If you want any further info regarding our dealings with Hymer send me a pm

Keith


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Hymer Warranty Claims in UK*

Just picked up these posts on return from a trip to Italy, including an unannounced call into Bad Waldsee on the way back, in the hope of getting my annual water ingress check done. They were very welcoming and they would have done it within the day if I could have waited a few hours, which unfortunately I couldn't. If I hadn't picked a day on which they were closing absolutely everything in Bad Waldsee downfrom 0930 until 1200 for some sort of special general workforce meeting or briefing, I got the impression they would have done the check for me there and then. Short of ducking the big meeting, which it was clearly not posible for them to do, the Service Department could not have been more helpful.

On return to my home (which happens to be fairly near Hymer UK in Preston) I phoned HymerUK's Service Department to book my MH in for this check. The attitude changed markedly when the lady who took the call realised that I had not bought from them (I was not on their database as a customer and she then asked me directly whether I had bought elsewhere) and I was told there would be no opportunity to make a booking until late June at the earliest. This is consistent with what I had been told by HymerUK's Salesmen to expect if I bought elsewhere; I would be made to wait. As it happens this delay of a few weeks is no pain at all to me, so I intend to turn up on the appointed day in late June and see what happens.

Rule Number One: don't complain or make a fuss unnecessarily; if you can cope with the delay or awkwardness, do so; cross bridges when you come to them.

Fortunately I haven't had to trouble HymerUK with a warranty claim yet; Nick Legg of Bundesvan has been prompt and helpful. He has sent replacement parts for me to fit and I sent the duff bits back to him.

I suppose the only way to try to force HymerUK to help with a warranty matter when they are refusing to do so would be to threaten to complain to Hymer AG that their UK dealer is refusing to honour Hymer's Europe-wide guarantee. HymerUK's dealership contract with HymerAG is almost certain to incorporate an obligation to honour the guarantee without discrimination, but that will not stop HymerUK messing you about and responding grudgingly if they think they can get away with it.

Faced with a refusal of help from the Service Department (or a demand for payment up front for a warranty repair) I would first of all write to Paul Kershaw, the General Manager of HymerUK at Preston. Ask him to honour the Hymer Europe-wide guarantee without further delay and (politely) state your intention to write to the CE of Brownhill and thereafter HymerAG to complain if he fails to do so. Then if necessary write to the Chief Exec of Brownhills at Newark to complain about Hymer UK, stating your intention to write to HymerAG if necessary. Be consistently polite in everything you do and don't make wild threats of legal action, especially if in practice you might be reluctant to take the financial risk of carrying them out; companies the size of Brownhills can easily afford to spend money on legal fees as a way of making things more difficult for a beligerent customer so don't play into their hands.

Rule Number Two: steer clear of lawyers and litigation unless it becomes necessary and worthwhile to use it, never do so on a matter of principle unless you have money to burn.

But do make it clear that you will persist with your complaints if necessary. The GM of HymerUK will not want the CE of Brownhills to be troubled unnecessarily and likewise the CE of Brownhills will not want complaints going to HymerAG. It will do no harm to mention that, if necessary you will also write to the Office of Fair Trading too, possibly via your MP. When I mentioned the Office of Fair Trading in my correspondence with Brownhills it seemed to have quit spectacular effect; by reply I got a a satisfactory commitment to provide a dealership support to all Hymer owners signed by the Chief Exec of Brownhills. (If you have a look at the OFT's website you will see that HymerUK's exploitation of their sole Hymer dealership in UK is very likely to be in breach of European rules on fair trading; hence Brownhills are unlikely to want to risk the OFT taking issue on the matter, they have a lot to lose.)

Rule Number Three: large companies (and their senior people) are potentially vulnerable to intellegent use of their own and/or statutory complaint systems; makin use of them is usually low risk for you and may allow you to make a considerable and costly nuisance of yourself.

I shall wave my Brownhill's CE letter under the nose of HymerUK if necessary, but I hope it will never come to that. Polite, informed persistence seems to pay off sooner or later.

Incidentally FiatUK show no signs of discriminating against people who buy in Europe at all. My MH developed a serious gearbox problem within three months of purchase and TB Turbo at Lancaster (who are Fiat Agents) were absolutely superb in their response, as were Fiat. The decison to replace the whole gearbox under warranty was made quickly, seemingly on the strength of a phone call from TB Turbo to FiatUK. The first call I got from TB Turbo ( mid morning on the day after my MH had been recovered to their premises very late the previous afternoon) was along the lines of "your gearbox is very sick but Fiat have agreed to replace it, there is no gearbox in UK but Fiat are getting one shipped to us from somewhere in Europe over the weekend". I had the MH back within a few days. Really impressive all round.

Stuart


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## grouch (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi Stuart

I can only think you have not had many dealings with Hymer. When you have had three and a half years of aggravation, having to fight for everything with Germany, Hymer UK and particularly Hymer UK's MD, you may feel slightly differently. We imported from Belgium but would not have done so if Hymer Germany had not stated that under the International Warranty, Hymer UK would deal with any problems we had.

Our intention was to change vans every 2 years but came to the conclusion it was just not worth the hassle.

As far as design is concerned we do not think we could better our 2002 B584. We love it - but hate all the problems we have had to face with it.

Enjoy your motorhoming and good luck with Hymer.

Keith


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Does anyone have an adress to contact the Chief Exec of Brownhills? Or antone higher up than Andrew Craggs at Newark.

Please PM me if you dont want to post it.

Richard..


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## 96509 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Brownhills Top Management*

You can contact the Chief Executive of Brownhills by writing to him at:

Nick Page, Chief Executive
Brownhills (Newark) Ltd
A1\A46 Juncion
NEWARK
Notts
NG24 2EA

The direct line to his office is 01636 670500.

The Chairman of Brownhills is Anthony Trevelyan.

They are pictured together on page 59 of the May edition of MMM, publicising Brownhills's involvement in fund raising in support of the British Red Cross.

Stuart


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## sander4709 (Feb 17, 2008)

Sormerod,

Thanks for an elucidating post which I have only just found!

Do you mean my old 1991 B694 has a steel roll over cage?

Regards

Simon


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## Caggsie (Aug 19, 2008)

sander4709 said:


> Sormerod,
> 
> Thanks for an elucidating post which I have only just found!
> 
> ...


He's no longer a member, having last posted in2009. Based on that very unlikely to respond. This post is from 2007.


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