# Warning cycling injury



## thesnail (May 1, 2005)

Last week my son who is fit healthy and muscular was hit by a car on cycling home in the dark. 

He is very safety concious having survived navel engagements, and quite a few "incidents" in the police force. 

He was wearing a Hi Vis jacket, has front and rear lights,(both constant and flashing) plus a reflective rucksack also with a light. Shall we say he was lit up like the seasonal tree. 

A 85 year old motorist ran into the back of him, then drove off stopping a quarter of a mile further on, when he hit a parked car. 

My son was hospitalised and luckily managed to survive with just broken ribs and massive bruising. 

He is presently recovering but admits that the trauma is very difficult, as it was a totally unexpected shock, he was not able to take any evasive action or to prepare himself mentally. 

Thankfully the driver has now had his licence revoked so now hopefully he will no longer be in a position to run down other road users. 

Which brings to the consequences what could have been a fatal incident, my son will no longer ride his bike to work, which he did for the sake of the excercise, his two daughters are no longer allowed to use their bikes. 

My wife and I always carry our bikes when away with the van, but now feel we will no longer be able to ride on the road again, unlike my son we are worn out arthritic and not very good at bouncing off the bonnet of cars or the Tarmac. 

Maybe it's about time there was some compulsory medical check for all drivers, not just a visual read of a cars number as you take your test at seventeen.


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## hiker (Jun 22, 2008)

Sorry to hear of your son's accident, & glad that the injuries weren't any worse.

While I agree about the health checks, it's not just the elderly who "don't see"! Perhaps we should all be adding our voices to the various campaigns to raise awareness/improve conditions for cyclists?

When you stand back from this situation, accidents like this are really a tiny, tiny proportion of safe, healthy, cycling journeys - hopefully in time you will feel able to use your bikes again.

Hiker
(my nearest & dearest are fairly fanatical cyclists, & have had their share of accidents, with/without vehicles involved)


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

There are a lot of elderly drivers who are still driving while unfit to do so. My next door neighbor for one :bad-words:


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

This year has seen a great increase to over 800 cyclists killed or injured.
Government body sugests people are cycling to- from work instead of using a car.
Regards older people driving, I revoked both my inlaws lisences because I new they were a danger to themselves and other people.
I was not and am still not popular with mother in law.

I feel that we all should take a refresher course sometime after retirement, not necesarily a test. Mind i fel that a vast number would fail the theory test.


Dave p

ps Daughter passed motorcycle theory test and today she is doing cbt course. Am I worried.Of course I am. She was always a tomboy.
Son wouldsearch rock pools, Kerry would climb the cliffs.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Hope your son will soon fully recover.

If the powers that be are genuine in trying to encourage environmentally safe policies it's about time they thought of providing many more cycle paths. Around us there are quite a few busy roads which have pavements. 

Technically ( and legally) cyclists aren't allowed to use them. Yet this is a nonesense as you'll never see a pedestrian on them at all-roads such as these should be "free'd" up for cyclists


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Here is a photo which is a result of a young lady pulling out of a T junction whilst on her mobile phone. Motor cyclist was found dead in the car with the two dead occupants.
You don`t need to be old to be a menace on the road.
Dave p
Sad but true


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I am sorry to hear of your son's plight. When God rolls the die in such situations, it is very easy and quite understandable to let it adversely affect your life and those around you for years. Or you can choose to do what you can to take control and do something more positive.

In the short term, concentrate on the fact that the consequences could so EASILY have been a lot more tragic. Indeed given that such events do happen and they are not in your control to prevent (clearly he had done all he could) a positive view is that he was lucky.

In the longer term frankly I fear, especially in this country, things will only get worse. And it is certainly not a simple matter of stronger governance of elderly drivers. We are crowded (especially in the south and south east) with a strong green and PC brigade lobby vehemently opposed to more roads. I see no glimmer of better education and training for motorists simply to acknowledge road users smaller than a car and who are inevitably more vulnerable. We can all tell stories of near misses. Mine was after being off two wheels for a few years, I bought a bike in London, brought it home on the train, and regarding the 8 mile bike ride home from the station I had gone only 100 yards when a car pulled out from a T-junction and I found my front wheel jammed between his front tyre and wheelarch. As I unentangled myself his window wound down, he peered out to check damage, then with a cheery "Sorry, mate, didn't see you" he was off. In my earlier motorbiking days, a headlight and bright clothing did nothing to stop motorists at T-junctions looking AT you, yet right THROUGH you - you simply did not register in their consciousness.

My favourite non-directly-health charity is:
http://www.sustrans.org.uk/what-we-do
They are a positive way forward.

Dave


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## thesnail (May 1, 2005)

*Positive approach*

Hi Dave

You are right about the positive approach, I'm positive I wont be riding my bike on any thing but cycle tracks.

I'm positive I don't want any more phone calls telling me that a member of my family is on his way to hospital after being hit by some one who took a quarter of a mile to stop, and then managed to ram a stationary car.

Or am I just being too defensive

Bryan


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Agree with much of previous posts.

I also believe that more roads should be designated non cyclist.

I have absolutely no wish to have a go at cyclists, I'm a keen one myself, but I think some roads are just no longer suitable/safe for cars and cyclists.

Before I retired my route to work took me along a 15 mile stretch of fast, de restricted, dual carriageway. A cycle track ran parallel most of the way yet every day there were several "bum in the air" cyclist determined to exercise their right to cycle in the roadway - how they survived I will never know but they were a danger to themselves and every motorist who passed them.

Motor vehicles and bikes don't mix - segregate them for everyone's sake.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Bryan I know how you must feel.
I lost my son over five years ago. He was in a car and the incident involved a drunken drugged driver who has never been charged with anything.
Had I taken the step of never getting into a car or any other vehicle again my life would be pretty poor.

Life can be cruel at any time but by not using your bikes or letting your granddaughters use a bike may seem a shock reaction.
I hope your son recovers well .

Regards

Dave p


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

My father in law a keen cyclist and then aged 65 thinks nothing of doing 100 mile round trips on his bike mostly now in the summer months. Like your son he is lit up like a christmas tree!!!!

He was hit on his way home from such a trip (about a mile from his house) by a young man aged 17 who had only recently passed his test. Sam (FIL) was on a roundabout about to exit when hit. He was thrown about 10 feet from the car, first we knew was when the police visited us to say he was in hospital with a suspected fractured skull and internal injuries. Fortunately there were witnesses who kindly stayed until ambulance and police arrived and gave help, assistance and most importantly statements.

After a scary wait at the hospital Sam was eventually discharged with only bruising. I say only as it could have been much worse.

He had to attend court as the young man was charged and ended up being banned for two years.

He got back on his bike and although wary the enjoyment he got from cycling, *for him*, far outweighed the risks, although personally I would prefer him to stay on cycle paths. He is now 68 and only a recent heart attack and bypass has stopped him cycling. I am quite glad but he misses it.
Bryan its a horrible experience for you all and I have every sympathy for you and your son. I know how you feel!!


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Jezport said:


> There are a lot of elderly drivers who are still driving while unfit to do so. My next door neighbor for one :bad-words:


Hi Jezport 
If you know of someone who is not fit through age or for any other reason to drive then write to the boss at your local police station with your concerns. Make sure you give your details and if you can evidence any bad driving then all the better and always ask to be kept informed of what is happening. 
Very few doctors will say a patient is not fit to drive because they get a lot more money for elderly patients and if word gets around that the doctor has recommended revoking a licence they will leave the practice by the dozen. 
The police are duty bound to investigate any complaints and although they cannot directly revoke a licence they will contact the DVLA with their findings. 
James


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your son, Bryan. I hope he recovers fully and can soon get back to using his bike with some enjoyment.

A few months ago, there was a spate of accidents involving cyclists in this area. Three riders were killed in a little over a week. At that time, my wife was being taught to ride under a local council scheme to promote cycling. A few days after the third fatality, my wife was told by her instructor that our local police force had chosen that point to commence a campaign against cyclists riding on the pavement, introducing on-the-spot fines. The timing was impeccable.

I am riding my bike much more now than I have done for many years.

It is obvious that there has been a substantial increase in the number of people out on bikes - the cycle tracks in my area can get quite crowded at weekends. There are some people on the roads, but most seem to stick to designated tracks or, dare I say it, pavements. With the increasing number of companies supporting the cycle-to-work schemes, the number of cyclists on the road will continue to rise.

Personally, I look for cycle tracks as a preference but will ride on the road if the traffic is not too heavy. Unfortunately, cycle tracks in my area are fairly few and far between and tend to follow fairly circuitous routes. That often leaves the choice between an indirect route or competing with the traffic.

As has been said earlier, some roads are just too dangerous to cycle on. I operate my own "filter" - if I'm uncomfortable with the volume/speed of traffic, I don't even attempt to ride that road and I will ride on the pavement instead. I accept that it is illegal, but I take the view that it is safer for me and the cars/lorries if I am removed from space that many drivers seem to regard as "theirs".

If I ride on the pavement, I always give way to pedestrians and take care not to surprise people by riding up behind them. A little bit of compromise goes a long way, I find.

Mike


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

Tony,

I appreciate that your concerns are genuine, but can you please let me know how a 'bum in the air' cyclist riding in, presumably, a straight line can conceivably be a danger to someone passing them, if that someone is concentrating on what they are doing and not fiddling with their radio/sat-nav etc.? 
The problem with cycle paths in this country is that they are invariably badly designed, usually by well-meaning non-cyclists, and maintained and impossible to ride on at anything above a brisk walking pace. That is why 'serious' cyclists invariably prefer to use the road.
Once again, I am afraid, our continental neighbours put us to shame in this regard.

Pomme


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

pomme1 said:


> Tony,
> 
> I appreciate that your concerns are genuine, but can you please let me know how a 'bum in the air' cyclist riding in, presumably, a straight line can conceivably be a danger to someone passing them, if that someone is concentrating on what they are doing and not fiddling with their radio/sat-nav etc.?
> The problem with cycle paths in this country is that they are invariably badly designed, usually by well-meaning non-cyclists, and maintained and impossible to ride on at anything above a brisk walking pace. That is why 'serious' cyclists invariably prefer to use the road.
> ...


Pomme - I do agree with you. I can certainly understand why cyclists who want to ride at any speed find cycle tracks a chore. That applies equally to road cyclists or those that prefer straight (mtb-style) bars (like me). Although called cycle tracks, they serve equally well for push-chairs, skaters, powered buggies, tricycles, dog-walkers, handy off-road parking for delivery vans etc. etc.

Our council recently applied for and were awarded some sort of grant based upon the excellence of the cycling provision already existing in the town. Their description of all the wonderful places that cyclists could ride was largely fiction.

Mike


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

Jezport said:


> There are a lot of elderly drivers who are still driving while unfit to do so. My next door neighbor for one :bad-words:


I see it every day makes you wonder eh ?


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

pomme1 said:


> Tony,
> 
> I appreciate that your concerns are genuine, but can you please let me know how a 'bum in the air' cyclist riding in, presumably, a straight line can conceivably be a danger to someone passing them, if that someone is concentrating on what they are doing and not fiddling with their radio/sat-nav etc.?
> 
> Pomme


The road in question, and probably similar to countless other roads, is a two narow-laned, deristricted, unlit road which, during rush hour, has two streams of fast moving, nose to tail traffic, all moving along nicely until one vehicle, often an HGV, in the nearside lane suddenly comes up behind this cyclist wobbling along in the gutter - not enough space to go around him with any safe clearance - he either squeezes through the gap or brakes hard - we've all been there.

In my view - cyclist riding without due care and consideration for other road users - very irresponsible.

Use the cycle track and if that's not suitable, use another route and complain to the appropriate authorities about the cycle track - don't belligerently put other peoples lives at risk.

However, the OP issue is clearly about bad driving and in that regard I believe each driving licence should have an "MoT" check - maybe even annually after a certain age. Not a full driving test but one that checks the basics and ensures the driver is at least capable.


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

Tony, if an HGV driver 'suddenly comes upon a cyclist' then has to brake hard or tries to squeeze through the gap then the fault is with the HGV driver - no question in my opinion.
How can an HGV driver suddenly come upon a cyclist? Was the driver not looking at the road ahead (possibly not based on many HGV drivers I've seen)? Did the cyclist mysteriously appear, like a ghost? I think not.
As to your point about having to brake suddenly - no driver should EVER have to brake suddenly under normal circumstances - what about driving at a speed suitable for the road conditions & within which you can safely stop?
As to the point about having to squeeze through & overtake dangerously. Well how's about a few seconds patience & said HGV driver waiting until it actually is safe to overtake? Anything else is surely dangerous driving BY THE HGV DRIVER.


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## hiker (Jun 22, 2008)

I sometimes find myself grumbling about agricultural vehicles or excessively wide loads being on the A14 during the morning rush hour - but they have every right to be there, the same as cyclists, horses, or anyone else on virtually any road apart from a motorway. Not many cyclists would want to travel on a busy dualcarriageway, but those that do are probably serious athletes who build their daily commute into their training programme, & who need to ride on well-surfaced roads.

Back to the original question, though - maybe people are forced to continue driving because of lack of public transport? We'll have to move house before we become unable to drive anymore - will we recognise the fact willingly?


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

jimmyd0g said:


> Tony, if an HGV driver 'suddenly comes upon a cyclist' then has to brake hard or tries to squeeze through the gap then the fault is with the HGV driver - no question in my opinion.
> How can an HGV driver suddenly come upon a cyclist? Was the driver not looking at the road ahead (possibly not based on many HGV drivers I've seen)? Did the cyclist mysteriously appear, like a ghost? I think not.
> As to your point about having to brake suddenly - no driver should EVER have to brake suddenly under normal circumstances - what about driving at a speed suitable for the road conditions & within which you can safely stop?
> As to the point about having to squeeze through & overtake dangerously. Well how's about a few seconds patience & said HGV driver waiting until it actually is safe to overtake? Anything else is surely dangerous driving BY THE HGV DRIVER.


We clearly live in two different worlds - I in the real world and yourself in a dream world.
Cyclists do not belong on the type of busy congested road I have described.
It's not safe for them and it's not safe for other road users.

In the conditions I have explained, roads are for motor vehicles and cycle paths are for cycles.


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

tonyt said:


> We clearly live in two different worlds - I in the real world and yourself in a dream world.
> Cyclists do not belong on the type of busy congested road I have described.
> It's not safe for them and it's not safe for other road users.
> 
> In the conditions I have explained, roads are for motor vehicles and cycle paths are for cycles.


Unfortunately if all cyclist have to stick to desnigated paths we may as well through our bikes in the bin. I live in Milton Keynes which has over 300 miles of cycle paths but if you want to get any where fast you have to use the roads. They were never ment for commuting but for leisure use. They are a pain in the backside sometime as you have to stop at road crossings driveways, avoid the tree roots, buggies, people, dogs pot holes etc.

If you go above 10 mph you annoy somebody. At commuting speeds it can be dangerous to both cyclist and pedestrians. There is no easy answer but we should not stop people getting on their bikes.

Derek


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

Tony, if you want to resort to personal insults by suggesting (just because I disagreed with your post in a logical & reasoned manner) then fine. You were 'slightly' wrong on one point in your reply to me. You told me that I live in a dream world. If you had substituted 'nightmare' for 'dream' you would have been spot on. The first Mrs jimmyd0g was killed whilst cycling to work. It was an HGV driver that did it (albeit that he was in his own private vehicle). Therefore, via a Friday morning in the local A & E (from which she never came out alive); & a coroner's inquest; and numerous adjourned (until the driver eventually pleaded guilty) court cases; as well as my own thousands of miles on a bicycle, I think that I have a right to express a valid opinion on this subject. If your view is so weak that you have to resort to insults then it's not a very strong case that you have, is it?


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

tonyt said:


> We clearly live in two different worlds - I in the real world and yourself in a dream world.
> Cyclists do not belong on the type of busy congested road I have described.
> It's not safe for them and it's not safe for other road users.
> 
> In the conditions I have explained, roads are for motor vehicles and cycle paths are for cycles.


Tonyt

The most vulnerable road users are pedestrians, *cyclists*, motorcyclists and horse riders. It is particularly important to be aware of children, older and disabled people, and learner and inexperienced drivers and riders.

When passing motorcyclists and *cyclists*, *give them plenty of room *(see Rules 162-167).

Motorcyclists and *cyclists* may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. *Give them plenty of room *and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

These are extracts from a quaintly old-fashioned document called the Highway Code. I couldn't find the bit about cyclists having to vacate the carriageway whenever they might cause inconvenience to car/lorry drivers, but it might be in there somewhere.

Mike


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

Whilst travelling by bus from Glasgow to Edinburgh last week - seated in the nearside front passenger seats my husband and I witnessed a cyclist being knocked down - by the bus in which we were travelling! It was unbelievably dangerous driving by the bus driver. We were approaching the outskirts of Edinburgh where there are roadworks installing tram system. We were driving along a single lane, delineated by traffic cones, and a cyclist was in front of us, clearly visible in all high-viz gear, our driver noted the cyclist, hesitated for a second and then overtook her and consequently knocked her down. I couldn't believe my eyes. There was barely enough room for the bus in this narrow, single lane. How he thought he could safely overtake her is beyond my comprehension. Needless to say, we stayed and gave statements to the police.

Fortunately, it was not a fatal accident but the cyclist sustained nasty injuries - and all for what? An impatient driver with no care or consideration for anyone/thing smaller than his bus. Sorry, but I am still angry.


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

It is probably true that our (UK) roads are not safe for cyclists as they are, generally, too narrow. However, cyclists have the same right of use as any other user. They also have the same responsibilities. About 3 years ago we stayed on the Brighton CC site, got on our bikes to cycle into town. My wife was so frightened/petrified by the appalling driving of motorists, HGVs and buses that we turned round after half a mile and walked back to the site rather than risk the cycle ride.

In my (now) home city of Dortmund I can ride the 9kms into the city centre almost exclusively on cycle tracks. The whole town is covered in cycle tracks, many on the actual pavements. Cyclists usually have priority over motor traffic and, most importantly, motorists in their compulsory professional training are taught and required to consider cyclists. I have only once in 4 years felt in any way threatened by the behaviour of a motorist. The old B1 in Dortmund (now the A40) was, when we lived on that side of town in the 70s, said to be the busiest road in Europe but cyclists never felt threatened. I could actually cycle the 50 miles to Munster exclusively on cycle tracks. 

I have never quite understood the logic of banning cyclists from pavements but then I think I am wise enough to recognise that not all cyclists take into account the unpredictable behaviour of some pedestrians (see my comment above on the responsibilities of cyclists).


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

People who say cyclist should only use cycle lanes have never seriously cycled. They are fine for recreational family use but not for serious commuting or travel 
1. They are incredibly slow surfaces... for serious road cyclist who travel at about 20/30mph a nightmare. Imagine if you were told that you could only drive from lands end to London on one track roads this is the equivelent.
2. Frequently cars park on cycle lanes and this means you have to make hazardous manovres to get past the hazard.
3. They are shared by pedestrians, fine for a family amble but when you are planning a journey of 100/200 miles.......
4. Have you ever tried to navigate your way to somewhere on minor roads/cycle paths finding your way can be a real challange for a start.

The problem is that cyclists do not mix well with motor traffic... on the other hand they do not mix well with pedestrians. There is a problem I can see that..... but there needs to be listening on both sides here and maybe a little more thought on how cycle lanes are constructed.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

tonyt said:


> jimmyd0g said:
> 
> 
> > We clearly live in two different worlds - I in the real world and yourself in a dream world.
> ...


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmyd0g said:


> Tony, if an HGV driver 'suddenly comes upon a cyclist' then has to brake hard or tries to squeeze through the gap then the fault is with the HGV driver - no question in my opinion.
> How can an HGV driver suddenly come upon a cyclist? Was the driver not looking at the road ahead (possibly not based on many HGV drivers I've seen)? Did the cyclist mysteriously appear, like a ghost? I think not.
> As to your point about having to brake suddenly - no driver should EVER have to brake suddenly under normal circumstances - what about driving at a speed suitable for the road conditions & within which you can safely stop?
> As to the point about having to squeeze through & overtake dangerously. Well how's about a few seconds patience & said HGV driver waiting until it actually is safe to overtake? Anything else is surely dangerous driving BY THE HGV DRIVER.


As a HGV driver I feel that I must put my five eggs worth in, first of all a large proportion of cyclist (in my veiw) must use the force as they ride thro red lights, come out of side roads straight out in front of me without looking, ride on and off of the pavements, come up the inside of my truck (while my truck is moving) these are not kids either! 
They rarely have hi-vis clothing which makes spotting them in time very hard as well as dealing with traffic.
On the elderly driver front its scary to see some of the things they do,I've had them pull out in front of me when I'm almost on top of them (the old geeza the other day was actually looking at me as he pulled out forcing me to mount the pavement) eye sight test needed there I think! how many times have you been behind an elderly driver doing 30mph on a main road? this is not because they have all day but because they are just not confident of going any faster................brakes going on for a corner that you could do 60mph round without batting an eyelid. I could go on and on remember HGV's are not on a mission to hold you up but they are working delivering everything that you buy including your M/H.
Also I dont know If many peeps are aware but trucks are mechanicaly limited to 56mph.

Lastly I hope that the original posters lad is well on the way to recovery.


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

Codfinger said:


> Also I dont know If many peeps are aware but trucks are mechanicaly limited to 56mph.


.

True but thats not much use when they should be sticking to the 40 mph speed limit on single carriageways.

Derek


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

Codfinger repeats the very common observation about cyclists riding through red lights.

Certainly, a few do; and some ride on to the pavement and over adjacent crossings. To put that issue into context, I would suggest that it is far, far more common (and very much more dangerous) to see car drivers accelerating at amber lights to try to avoid the red (and often failing).

Personally, I have only once ridden through a red light and that was a genuine error. The priorities on the lights had been altered so that they changed in a different order - I accept that is no excuse. Interestingly, I was at the front of the queue, in the centre of the lane (much to the irritation of the 4x4 driver revving his engine behind me). As I mistakenly anticipated the change of lights and moved forward, the 4 x 4 swerved past and accelerated through the red light.


Regarding the provision of cycle tracks, there are so many places where 
cycle tracks could be created at relatively low cost.

Where I live, there is a designated cycle track (built into the pavement)along part of the sea front. At the busiest and most constricted part of the road, where roadside parking is allowed, the track simply directs cyclists back into the traffic.

That road, with roundabouts, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings etc. then runs parallel to the pedestrian "promenade" (which varies from 15 to 50 yards wide) for the next couple of miles - but cycling is not permitted at any time.

From September to March, pedestrians on the promenade are like hens teeth - you could ride for a mile without seeing a single person - but the road is busy all year round. With a bit of imagination and a few cans of paint, a safe and pleasant route could be created for cyclists for at least half the year. When the promenade is busier with people, during the summer months, the area could be designated pedestrian only. Does that seem particularly outlandish?

The increasing number of cars on the road correlate to a declining number of pedestrians. On any day of the week. I could ride a mile from my front door, on the pavement, without passing a single pedestrian - and I live in a relatively built up area. With a little common sense and education, many footpaths could be converted to shared use with very little inconvenience to pedestrians. Why is that so objectionable?

Mike


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

Traffic lights for roadworks where a carraige way is closed for a long stretch (ie reducing the road to one lane) is a real hazard. You set off when the lights are green, you are overtaken however you do not make it to the other end before the lights change to allow the oncoming traffic there right of way. The HIGHWAY CODE states they should wait until the cycle has past.. do they hell.. they just set off and come towards you VERY SCAREY. The only defense is to make sure that you cycle dead centre of the carraigeway when you set off block your ears to the protesting horns behind you and go as quickly as you can (hopefully not uphill) and with any luck cars will not share the lane if there is a pile of cars behind you. 

I do not defend anybody skipping red lights incidently at all but if you have ever ridden a bike you will realise that stopping on a steep hill and getting started again presents real problems.

As I say there are points on both sides and all need to be listened to but remember if a bike hits somebody or something the rider is likely to hurt much more than the person hit. IF a motorised vehicle hits somebody it is the reverse.


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

From a crown court case this week:

A 22 year old driver tried to "clip" a 66 year old cyclist because he thought he was taking up too much room on the road.

The cyclist suffered deep cuts to his legs, internal bleeding, a broken hip, fractures to his left hand, broken ribs, cuts to his liver and injuries to his throat and was in hospital for four months.

The driver left the scene, went home, washed and repaired his car to remove blood stains and even ordered an employee out to remove the accident notices subsequently displayed by the police.

For driving without a licence or insurance, perverting the course of justice, dangerous driving and - from a conviction for stealing a new car in a previous case - this pillar of society was banged up for 33 months.

He is such a little charmer that even his mother testified against him and described him as a dominating bully.

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm sure he will be a repentant, reformed character when on the roads again in Feb 2011.

Dave


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> I'm sure he will be a repentant, reformed character when on the roads again in Feb 2011.
> 
> Dave


The actual sentence for dangerous driving, no licence, no insurance and failing to stop and report was actually only 20 months. The rest was for perverting the course of justice and car theft (he had been found guilty of that in a previous, unrelated case).

Contrast the penalties here to the USA.

A doctor has recently been convicted of overtaking a couple of cyclists then braking hard to make them crash into his car. One cyclist suffered broken teeth and facial injuries and the other a damaged shoulder.

The charge was "felony assault with a deadly weapon" which carries a sentence of between three and twelve years in a federal prison The conviction establishes that in the USA, causing deliberate injury with a car can be considered the same as assault with a knife, gun or similar weapon.

Had the case been in California, the conviction would also have counted as a "strike" under the law that introduced a minimum 25 year sentence for three felony convictions.

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Surely you are not challenging our Govt's implementation of "Tough on crime; tough on the causes of crime"?

Dave


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Surely you are not challenging our Govt's implementation of "Tough on crime; tough on the causes of crime"?
> 
> Dave


I could never be so pretentious. I fully understand that I am beneath the great leaders of this land.

Mike


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*Cyclists*

Check out ITV programe on at the moment................


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi
as a cycling motorist there are many things that I have a "right" to do some of which increase the risk of getting hurt. So when my local council 
spent £400,000 building a cycle path from my village to the next I am quite happy to use it and not exercise my right to cycle on the very busy trunk road 20 feet away.
The local "real" cyclists decline to use it and insist on cycling on the road.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

teamsaga said:


> Hi
> as a cycling motorist there are many things that I have a "right" to do some of which increase the risk of getting hurt. So when my local council
> spent £400,000 building a cycle path from my village to the next I am quite happy to use it and not exercise my right to cycle on the very busy trunk road 20 feet away.
> The local "real" cyclists decline to use it and insist on cycling on the road.


Have you asked 'em why or can't you catch 'em? :lol:


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

clodhopper2006 said:


> teamsaga said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


I think that's probably spot-on.

Many road cycllists tend to ride a light weight bike with drop handlebars and wish to achieve a reasonable pace. If they are serious club riders there will be an element of training in their riding.

Riding at speed on a cycle track has considerable hazards. They are narrow, with many only allowing barely enough space to pass another cyclist. Add to that their common secondary use (or in some places it is their primary use!!) of pedestrian track, dog-walking track (extending leads compulsory), car park, skateboard track, motorised buggy lane etc. etc. and it is no surprise that many cyclists find them, at best, unattractive places to ride.

Mike


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hello Bryan & Rosemary,

Rita and I wish your son well, and hope that he finds the confidence to continue cycling for fitness.

As an experienced HVG 1 and PSV 1 driver, I always try to give vunerable cyclists bags of room, which often means sitting behind then with my RH indicator on and waiting until it is clearly safe for the cyclist, and other road users for me to overtake. This often results in a queue of traffic behind me, and oncoming motorists moving over in order to offer me some space.
Not until the way is clear will I overtake, as the thought of sucking a cyclist under my trailer is nightmare stuff.

As a cyclist, I once had white van man hit my elbow with his LH mirror. I shouted, "Oi, watch out". Unbeknown to us, he then turned round further down the road and came back, overtaking Rita and I. He then stopped at the side of the road and got out with a hammer in his hand. Fortunately, I saw this, and managed to turn around and get quickly persuade Rita to follow me. We went into a residential housing estate to try and escape this nutter.
What a scary experience. 8O

If you go to www.itv.com you can view the Tonight programme by Trevor McDonald, which addressed injuries to cyclists, and whether or not drivers should always be to blame for any accidents involving cyclists.

I am on a slow connection, so am unable to forward the link to the particular episode.

Regards,

Jock.


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

Can I give a positive about HGV drivers. Can I just say that my son who is a serious cyclist... (ie. Riding back from Pembroke in Wales to Gloucester in a day). has said although being passed by HGV drivers is really scarey because of the drag and there size he has said that 90% of GB HGV drivrers are very considerate and give him room and are courteous. Gold star to our GB HGV guys! Unfortunately the same cannot be said for coach drivers or people who drive powerful cars! 

The DRAG you cause when you pass at speed draws you under the wheels. Please if you pass a cyclist can you give plenty of room.. you should pretend they are the width of a car... SERIOUSLY. The faster you are going the worse it is.....My son does try to get out of the way to let people pass but I am sure you understand if you are battling up 'Porlock hill' for instance.... (yes he has done that on more than one occasion) stopping to let people pass does lose your momentum.

Thanks everybody at the end of the day it is about everybody being considerate of each other and understanding. Remember teh sight of a cyclist wrapped around your wheels because of drag will be something that you will see in your nightmares for years besides the death of a cyclist.


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## loughrigg (Nov 10, 2008)

Just to back up the post from roamingsue. RoSPA stats from a few years ago show:

Only 2% of accidents involving cyclists are collisions with HGVs.

However

Collisions between cyclists and HGVs account for 22% of cyclist fatalities.

Mike


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*ITV*

Hello,

Sorry to learn of your bad experience.

I watched ITV last night, what I could and to be fair, it was the usual pantomime of bu**sh1t.

What they did not show you last night for limited examples are

*Vehicle Drivers on Mobiles not paying attention
*Vehicle Drivers fiddling with sat navs, no eyes on the road.
*Drivers that overtake cyclists and then turn left in front of them
*Driver that do not allow room for cyclists overtaking parked cars (bet they would not try that if the cyclists were a Chelsea tractor)
*Drivers pulling out across junctions

and so on

I have been a very keen cyclist since I was a kid. I have lots count of the number of times I have come so close to serious injury.

I have been knocked off a bike twice in 30 years and because of this, rarely venture onto public roads anymore.

By far too late but would be the best way is no one can take a driving test until they have completed a Cycling Test, involving a mixture of City, Rural and Semi-rural roads.


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