# New rules for ex-pats in Spain



## Mike0753

Just found this article on the Daily Mail website - 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ollow-Spains-new-EU-edict-You-money-bank.html
It would appear that anyone wishing to live in Spain for more than 3 months must be able to prove that they are financially self sufficient and not be a burden on the state. Looks like I will have to carry a lot more paperwork when I overwinter in future...


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## GerryD

They should also be excluded from any future increase in state pension, winter fuel allowance any free NHS treatment.
Gerry


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## MikeCo

GerryD said:


> They should also be excluded from any future increase in state pension, winter fuel allowance any free NHS treatment.
> Gerry


How can I pay for the ferry without using the fuel allowance 

Mike


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## erneboy

Well what a bother all that form filling will be.

But wait a minute, how does anyone know whether you are there for three months or five months or whatever. Just as long as you don't try to live there all the time I don't see a problem, especially if you move around as most of us do, Alan.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

What a hardship you have to endure to get three months in the sun.

Dave p


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## motormouth

Seems like a good idea to me. Shame our government haven't the balls to do similar.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

motormouth said:


> Seems like a good idea to me. Shame our government haven't the balls to do similar.


 Balls is on the other team :wink: 
But I agree and all ex pats returning to our shores should prove the same. :lol: 
Dave p


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## eddied

*EU free movement of peoples.*

 So what's new? Italy does it and has been doing it for years. After three months (90 days) you register at the Town Hall for residence. You prove that you have a steady income (pension or job) or at least 6000 eurines in the bank, and that you have a right to state health care or adequate health insurance, and a fixed abode. You shouldn't be in any EU country anyway except on holiday, if you can't fulfil these minimum requirements. That doesn't stop Italy being full of illegal immigrants though.
saluti,
eddied


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## bktayken

Spain has had this provision in place for years, just never been enforced until now due to the crisis...as motormouth says you should do the same in the UK.


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## nicholsong

Similar rules apply in Poland.

But as has been said, how do the authorities know when one has been in the country for 3 months - even if arriving by air (from a non-Schengen country so that your entry might be recorded), - you could have been away by road or rail before the end of 3 months.

I am loathe to register in Poland since their tax system does not recognise the tax-free status of ISAs and Private Pension funds, thus I would have to pay tax on income into those funds.

So far I have not breached the 3 month rule in 15 months because of trips to UK, Greece and Slovakia, which is only 100km away so I could always arrange a night/weekend away in the MH if needed.

I am assuming that a night away starts the 3 month clock ticking afresh. Does anyone know if this is correct, for their country of 'residence'?

Incidentally, it is quite possible to arrange to be non-resident for tax anywhere, if one judiciously moves, spending less than 3 months in certain countries, but it can be 6 months in some. Not much help though if one's income is from UK pensions or rent, both of which are taxable in UK regardless of whether one is a 'non-resident'. 

Sorry, wittering on? - maybe not, because registering may have tax implications which could make a quick w/e away a cheap alternative.

Geoff


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## baldlygo

nicholsong said:


> .....I am assuming that a night away starts the 3 month clock ticking afresh. Does anyone know if this is correct, for their country of 'residence'?
> Snip....


When it comes to paying tax in France it is done by a set of rules basically defining your main residence or home - not a set continuous period of days.

See  >>this link<< for a good description.

Paul


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## erneboy

Unless you intend buying or renting a property long term and living in one place in Spain I can't see that this need have much effect on you.

Here is some info. mainly about the benefits of becoming a resident but also explaining the 183 day rule, which may now have replaced by the three month rule referred to in the other article. Both can't be right I think. http://www.villascosta.com/guides/relocating-to-spain/the-benefits-of-becoming-resident-in-spain/

In any case I don't intend doing anything about this for now. I do spend more than three months in Spain each year but all I do there is hang around and spend money, I have health insurance should I need it and I don't call on any services the government provide, Alan.


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## nicholsong

Paul

Thanks for link. I note it was written in Dec 2008; I wonder whether their advice that tax is generally lower in France would still be their opinion now?

I was also surprised that they say that the double-taxation agreement says that becoming resident for tax in France also changes one's 'Domicile', since normally UK HMRC are very loathe to concede that a person is no longer domiciled in UK, especially if they own property there at death.

Fortunately I do not own or rent and do not work here so, having taken tax advice, and not even been required to legally register (<3 months) I am well under the radar.

Also the fact of having a MH helps to demonstrate that one is 'itinerant'  

Geoff


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## richardjames

I think that immigrants should not get 'free medical' until they have made a reasonable contribution to the National Health


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## baldlygo

nicholsong said:


> .....I note it was written in Dec 2008; I wonder whether their advice that tax is generally lower in France would still be their opinion now?........


I think we are drifting from this thread's subject so you could PM me Geoff if you like.

However a quick response - It depends entirely on one's personal circumstances whether one would be better off - it can be complicated since many basic principles are quite different in France (eg - inheritance law and you need health top-up insurance -although not compulsory). But getting back to the subject - in today's economic climate maybe France like other countries will be forced to tighten up on it's regulations where in the past they have been more relaxed.

Paul


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## erneboy

And the same for us when we travel? 

Surely reciprocal health care makes sense. 

People feel it's inequitable because we have too many immigrants putting a strain on our resources but that is exactly what Spain feels too.

In the UK we think it's Poles and Romanians and the Spanish think it's Brits and Romanians.

In France they think it's North Africans, etc. etc., Alan.


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## raynipper

Since most so called civilised developed countries rely heavily on tourism, I don't think it's a very bright move.

The dumb American immigration service chucks us out within six months even if you have bought a million dollar RV and spend on a lavish lifestyle. They don't care.

I guess there could be many 'winter visitors' to the Spanish Costas who contribute greatly to the local economy. This will only make them hesitate or limit their stay.

Speaking as an Ex-Pat, why should I lose my winter fuel payment when we get similar temps as Jersey and Cornwall. Do you want to stop their Pension benefits Dave and Gerry...???

Maybe even if you live more than the estimated 7.5 years the government anticipate paying your pension you should be terminated..??

Ray.


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## BrianJP

Mike0753 said:


> Just found this article on the Daily Mail website -
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ollow-Spains-new-EU-edict-You-money-bank.html
> It would appear that anyone wishing to live in Spain for more than 3 months must be able to prove that they are financially self sufficient and not be a burden on the state. Looks like I will have to carry a lot more paperwork when I overwinter in future...


Shame you didn,t study the article fully .British consular staff in Spain stated that if introduced it would only affect a very small minority of Brits.
Probably be some of the no hopers and free loaders that I often see out there trying to live on the cheap.
I would just ignore it anyway as it would only affect those trying to get resident status,not tourists even long term ones


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## tony50

raynipper said:


> Since most so called civilised developed countries rely heavily on tourism, I don't think it's a very bright move.
> 
> The dumb American immigration service chucks us out within six months even if you have bought a million dollar RV and spend on a lavish lifestyle. They don't care.
> 
> I guess there could be many 'winter visitors' to the Spanish Costas who contribute greatly to the local economy. This will only make them hesitate or limit their stay.
> 
> Speaking as an Ex-Pat, why should I lose my winter fuel payment when we get similar temps as Jersey and Cornwall. Do you want to stop their Pension benefits Dave and Gerry...???
> 
> Maybe even if you live more than the estimated 7.5 years the government anticipate paying your pension you should be terminated..??
> 
> Ray.


As you have moved off the topic slightly , yes why should you receive Winter fuel allowance from the Uk ? you live in France ! I was in Brittany France for a couple of weeks recently and met a Ex- Pat who reckoned life was better in France , health service was better then she admitted she was retired and paid 40 Euro a month for health , thanks but I said I think I spend my money on G& T's , good luck to you and yours if you prefer France to live , but after 2 weeks using restaurants some of the time I got fed up with potatoes / chips , meat , and lettuce with everthing , even my now started to twitch like a rabbit ! as for the weather rain nearly every day , must say other than that we like France especially south and it's nice to visit , but could not leave dear old UK to live in my opinion no comparision . I agree Spain is doing the right thing , and Why should Ex-Pats come back to the Uk and fiddle ( by giving a friends address saying they live there ) to use the UK health Service

Tony A.


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## erneboy

tony50 said:


> ........... and Why should Ex-Pats come back to the Uk and fiddle ( by giving a friends address saying they live there ) to use the UK health Service Tony A.


Well how about because many of us have contributed fully all our lives by paying taxes and NI. I my case I still pay both. Even though I am retired and no longer live in the UK I pay tax there on my income from property rentals and on my pension, I have no option but to do so, the government insists. By any reasonable standards I am therefore entitled to Health Care and the UK government have no moral right whatsoever to attempt to cheat me out of it. If I have to lie about where I have been to maintain that fully paid for entitlement then I will do that and will continue to do so till these unfair rules are changed, Alan.


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## tony50

erneboy said:


> tony50 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........... and Why should Ex-Pats come back to the Uk and fiddle ( by giving a friends address saying they live there ) to use the UK health Service Tony A.
> 
> 
> 
> Well how about because many of us have contributed fully all our lives by paying taxes and NI. I my case I still pay both. Even though I am retired and no longer live in the UK I pay tax there on my income from property rentals and on my pension, I have no option but to do so, the government insists. By any reasonable standards I am therefore entitled to Health Care and the UK government have no moral right whatsoever to attempt to cheat me out of it. If I have to lie about where I have been to maintain that fully paid for entitlement then I will do that and will continue to do so till these unfair rules are changed, Alan.
Click to expand...

I should have made it clearer , as I think Fuel allowance should be for UK residents only , and if you choose to live elsewhere and spend the majority of income there then I don't see why you should expect the UK to look after you you might as well say that if I go to another country on holiday I should expect them to give the same treatment FOC as I get in the UK , after all it is your choice what you do in life

Tony A..


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## erneboy

Because I pay my taxes. What are they for if not for health care among other things. Or should I just give my money to the Uk out of the kindness of my heart? Alan.


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## raynipper

tony50 said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tony50 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........... and Why should Ex-Pats come back to the Uk and fiddle ( by giving a friends address saying they live there ) to use the UK health Service Tony A.
> 
> 
> 
> Well how about because many of us have contributed fully all our lives by paying taxes and NI. I my case I still pay both. Even though I am retired and no longer live in the UK I pay tax there on my income from property rentals and on my pension, I have no option but to do so, the government insists. By any reasonable standards I am therefore entitled to Health Care and the UK government have no moral right whatsoever to attempt to cheat me out of it. If I have to lie about where I have been to maintain that fully paid for entitlement then I will do that and will continue to do so till these unfair rules are changed, Alan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I should have made it clearer , as I think Fuel allowance should be for UK residents only , and if you choose to live elsewhere and spend the majority of income there then I don't see why you should expect the UK to look after you you might as well say that if I go to another country on holiday I should expect them to give the same treatment FOC as I get in the UK , after all it is your choice what you do in life
> 
> Tony A..
Click to expand...

OK Tony.
What about due to the incompetence of the British Treasury they brought about me losing the entire 40 years savings so that we are unable to sell and return to UK.
Now living on a reduced pension again due to the Unemployment office losing 16 years of my contributions. 
All the time when working I paid into the system hoping to get the accrued benefits.

These wonderful incompetents benefit from a generous salary and pension handouts and you think we are not entitled to a Winter Fuel allowance....... ???/

I despair. What do you want......................... blood???

Ray


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## nicholsong

I am another person whose whole income (rent and pension) is taxed in the UK.

Would those who say that, because one spends more time away from the UK one is not entitled to benefits there, also advocate cutting off the UK pension?

If one can receive a UK pension why not other benefits, especially if all one's tax is going to the UK Exchequer?

Geoff


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## teemyob

*Skint*

It is possibly so they can find out how much money you have so they can tax you in some way.

Spain is Skint so they say.

Could always drive into Portugal, France or Andorra for a few days and back.

TM


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## jonse

*spain*

With all the knowledge those on here have re computers do you really think nobody knows where you are, once out side U.K perhaps not in the EU but once outside the EU, pass through any port control ,then you are logged in to UK, so they know where you are, and Like others on here that are resident in other EU states, we have paid into the UK system so we are entitled to the benefits, not like certain people in the UK who have put nothing in and just take out, also we don't pay for our treatment but we do pay for staying in the hospital, we do pay for all of the cost then get reimbursed for the surgery but not for staying in H/B/B So stuff you who think we should lose the pension and fuel allowence


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I am puzzled.
Some ex pats rent out properties and have pensions paid from the UK.
They are taxed on this income.
Surely tax would be paid on this income in your new country of residence anyway

Couldn`t you sell uk assets and repurchase properties abroad.

dave p


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## erneboy

*Re: spain*



jonse said:


> With all the knowledge those on here have re computers do you really think nobody knows where you are, once out side U.K perhaps not in the EU but once outside the EU, pass through any port control ,then you are logged in to UK, so they know where you are, and Like others on here that are resident in other EU states, we have paid into the UK system so we are entitled to the benefits, not like certain people in the UK who have put nothing in and just take out, also we don't pay for our treatment but we do pay for staying in the hospital, we do pay for all of the cost then get reimbursed for the surgery but not for staying in H/B/B So stuff you who think we should lose the pension and fuel allowence


It's no problem masking you whereabouts on a computer. In my own case I will always seem to be in Germany because I use a German based ISP.

You are not logged in or out of the UK although there have been proposals to start doing so.

Alan.


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## MyGalSal

I, too, am puzzled. Is it misinformation or purely sour grapes? :roll: 

My husband and I paid our UK taxes all our working lives until we retired. Even when working abroad as expats we paid our UK taxes through the Overseas Dept of the Ministry of whatever the name it was at the time (it changed over the years). We currently pay tax on our assets in the UK. However, we choose to spend 6 months of the year wherever the mood takes us which is often Spain, France or Germany. Some years the 6 months we stay in the UK are over the winter.

Are we supposed to stay confined to the British Isles in order to receive our due entitlements – re pension and winter fuel allowance? Why should we not travel? Why should we be denied our freedom to choose as to where we lay our heads at night? Why should we not take long holidays? God knows we have worked all our lives and with however many years we have left on this earth we feel we are now due to R&R whichever way we choose. It is disappointing to read some of the posts on this thread. It would seem that some are determined to rain on anyone’s parade but their own. 

A personal observation re health insurance: I have bought travel health insurance every year since the age of 18. I am now 66 and this year for the first time ever I was taken ill whilst in Spain. I had to go to hospital for tests. I presented my EHIC (as required to do by the Terms and Conditions of the Health Insurance – Europ Assist). The hospital asked me if I had insurance. When I answered yes they refused to accept my EHIC. The insurance company refused to pay saying that as it was the EU there was a reciprocal agreement with the UK and therefore I must use my card. They said if a Spanish national was in the UK and needed hospital treatment they would use their health card and it would be honoured. They also told me that I should not have admitted to the hospital that I had insurance! The hospital I was attending absolutely refused to accept my EHIC because they said their Government was tired of the insurance companies making money out of people by selling them insurance and then telling people to use their EHIC. Bottom line was I had to pay. After a big tussle the insurance company eventually reimbursed me – less the charge to them made by my GP who had to fill in a 50-page questionnaire for the insurance. The hospital told me that if I hadn't insurance they would have honoured my EHIC.

To those of us who are happy travelling:

May the road rise to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
The rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.

May God be with you and bless you:
May you see your children's children.
May you be poor in misfortune,
Rich in blessings.
May you know nothing but happiness
From this day forward.

May the road rise up to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
May the warm rays of sun fall upon your home
And may the hand of a friend always be near.

May green be the grass you walk on,
May blue be the skies above you,
May pure be the joys that surround you,
May true be the hearts that love you.

Sal


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## bktayken

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I am puzzled.
> Some ex pats rent out properties and have pensions paid from the UK.
> They are taxed on this income.
> Surely tax would be paid on this income in your new country of residence anyway
> 
> Couldn`t you sell uk assets and repurchase properties abroad.
> 
> dave p


Never as straight forward as one would wish,Ex pats ie Spanish residents as opposed to long term holidayers.can op for Dual Tax Dispensation where they pay Spanish tax an some of there income for instance the State pensions there are other allowances as well but best to see finanacial advisor for these.If you are a Spanish resident and rent your UK property you pay UK tax on the income for example.
Spanish residents and ex pats who rent out Spanish property should declare the income and pay 20% tax. in Spain.

As for suggesting selling up and buying abroad,lots have done this but that surely a personal choice me thinks you are being a little mischievious there.

Teenyob suggested also to nip in and out of the country for a day to overcome the lenght of stay time..it doesnt work like that,its the actual amount of days not the consecutive days per annum that counts

Having paid full NI I now recieve a UK pension declared in Spain..but the fuel allowance I dont recieve and have mixed views on it.

As for proving how long you have stayed it is up to you to disprove if they ask...ie with ferry Air or tunnel tickets not sure how you would manage if you came via Germany for instance what do you think erneboy


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## raynipper

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I am puzzled.
> Some ex pats rent out properties and have pensions paid from the UK.
> They are taxed on this income.
> Surely tax would be paid on this income in your new country of residence anyway
> 
> Couldn`t you sell uk assets and repurchase properties abroad.
> 
> dave p


As it happens Dave,
When we submit our French income tax forms, there is a blue one for French income and another pink one for ex pat foreign income.
We have to declare ALL income weather it is UK state pensions or even tax free ISA and other tax free savings income.
The French then decide what is taxable and at what rate.

In the event of you complaining that so and so has been taxed in the UK, the French suggest you ask for a refund from HMRC.

Ray.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

bktayken quote:As for suggesting selling up and buying abroad,lots have done this but that surely a personal choice me thinks you are being a little mischievious there. 


Mischievious, me.
I would rather have the properties where I can visit them.

Roll on the big social experiment along with harmonisation of wages , prices, and taxes.
Dave p


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## erneboy

Like Dave I want them where I can keep control. I have known many people who buy a little hideaway for themselves in some foreign country planning to use it for their own holidays and rent it out the rest of the time. What happens is that they get fed up having to go to the same place. It becomes a chore and because they don't go to see that all is OK the property deteriorates. Also when considering buying they are told that there will be plenty of rentals but the reality is that often there are very few.

So ours are in the UK. If we do buy a foreign property it won't primarily be as a rental opportunity, Alan.


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## jonse

Like I said, once you pass passport control they know exactly how long you have been out when you come back', If you have a property and become resident then the taxes are payable of your resident country reciprocal tax is on your holiday property income, If your not resident, You can take a risk on things In life but you also have to face the consequence when you get caught, Have known people in UK that evaded tax and both times they had to sell there homes to pay the tax due, might be a buzz for some but its nicer to sleep well each night , but then some wives never know about these things till the old man snuffs It, and she gets left with the problms,  I received UK tax back when I became resident here


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## nicholsong

jonse

Most of European countries are in Schengen, so when passing between them there is no Passport Control (The old offices are empty) so there is no record. At airports there are separate channels for those arriving from another Schengen country and for those from non-Schengen, which are subject to passport/visa checks.

Geoff


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## Scattycat

nicholsong said:


> jonse
> 
> Most of European countries are in Schengen, so when passing between them there is no Passport Control (The old offices are empty) so there is no record. At airports there are separate channels for those arriving from another Schengen country and for those from non-Schengen, which are subject to passport/visa checks.
> 
> Geoff


I didn't think the UK belonged to the Schengen Agreement :?:


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## organplayer

*organplayer*

You iz rite. The UK don"t


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## raynipper

jonse said:


> Like I said, once you pass passport control they know exactly how long you have been out when you come back', If you have a property and become resident then the taxes are payable of your resident country reciprocal tax is on your holiday property income, If your not resident, You can take a risk on things In life but you also have to face the consequence when you get caught, Have known people in UK that evaded tax and both times they had to sell there homes to pay the tax due, might be a buzz for some but its nicer to sleep well each night , but then some wives never know about these things till the old man snuffs It, and she gets left with the problms,  I received UK tax back when I became resident here


In todays high tech world it's not rocket science for even the most intellectually challenged tax or immigration authorities to work out anyones movements and place of principal financial activities.

In France it used to be the Post Person who reported to authorities when you had any communications from any tax havens.
Now your bank account can be accessed, your house and mobile phone records too. In small rural communities everyone knows what you are doing and is probably related to the Mayor.

In 2004 we stopped travelling most of the year and then became French residents and fiscally domiciled in 2006. It simplified many things and was the logical thing to do.

We manage to reside quite comfortably on our reduced pensions, limited interest and Winter Fuel Allowance. Anyone can assess our level of affluence (or lack of) looking at our situation and lifestyle. These things can't be kept secret now.

Ray.


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## erneboy

Passport control does not record information on European passport holders, they just look at your passport, Alan.

Details of the proposals are here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4987415/All-travel-plans-to-be-tracked-by-Government.html

As you can see not all have been implemented. If you have to complete a landing card that is logged.

More. They are working on it: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2180711/uk-home-office-slams-delayed-borders-programme


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## Easyriders

Mike0753 said:


> Just found this article on the Daily Mail website -
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ollow-Spains-new-EU-edict-You-money-bank.html
> It would appear that anyone wishing to live in Spain for more than 3 months must be able to prove that they are financially self sufficient and not be a burden on the state. Looks like I will have to carry a lot more paperwork when I overwinter in future...


Why would you believe anything in the Daily Mail? There's more sense in The Beano!


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## tony50

It appears I hit a raw nerve  when I deviated from the origional post , I do now see some of the points made , as stated posts on this site are personal points of view , but the intention was not to upset whoever ,but many of us who live in the UK give the Fuel payment to charity as we don't need it but hope it will help others that do.

Tony A.


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## nicholsong

tony50 said:


> It appears I hit a raw nerve  when I deviated from the origional post , I do now see some of the points made , as stated posts on this site are personal points of view , but the intention was not to upset whoever ,but many of us who live in the UK give the Fuel payment to charity as we don't need it but hope it will help others that do.
> 
> Tony A.


Tony

I 'need' the fuel payment get a bit more income on which I avoid (dirty word these days) paying tax to a country where I spend little time :wink:

Geoff


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## Scattycat

Regarding fuel allowance.

As I understand it, it is an odd situation that when you retire at 65 if you take permanent residence another EU country you are entitled to the fuel allowance. But if you retire early and although you have paid enough money into the system or worked enough years to be eligible for a full state pension you get nothing.

To all those who say that if you move to a warmer climate you don't need the allowance just try living in, what in the summer may be a nice warm climate in the winter has temperatures around -15C or -16C and then tell me you don't need heating.

Yep, all praise to those who don't need the allowance and pass it on a charity to help others but there are many pensioners who have had their savings and pensions decimated by the financial downturn in recent years and who thought they had enough for a comfortable retirement and now find themselves in dire straits.

Over the last 10 years they have lost in the worst of those 10 years 30% of their annual income and at the moment around 25% because of exchange rate fluctuations.

Not many can take that sort of loss and still have a comfortable life style

Sorry, probably slightly off topic to the original posting


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## Easyriders

Scattycat said:


> Regarding fuel allowance.
> 
> As I understand it, it is an odd situation that when you retire at 65 if you take permanent residence another EU country you are entitled to the fuel allowance. But if you retire early and although you have paid enough money into the system or worked enough years to be eligible for a full state pension you get nothing.
> 
> To all those who say that if you move to a warmer climate you don't need the allowance just try living in, what in the summer may be a nice warm climate in the winter has temperatures around -15C or -16C and then tell me you don't need heating.
> 
> Yep, all praise to those who don't need the allowance and pass it on a charity to help others but there are many pensioners who have had their savings and pensions decimated by the financial downturn in recent years and who thought they had enough for a comfortable retirement and now find themselves in dire straits.
> 
> Might be on shaky ground here, as it isn't clear whether you already lived abroad when you retired. But Mr. E retired at 61 on health grounds, and won't get state pension until 65. He still got the fuel allowance straight away though, just had to fill in a form. So maybe you are entitled, and just need to make a claim? BTW, we really need the help with fuel now - we live half way up a mountain, it gets very cold, and we have no mains gas.
> 
> Over the last 10 years they have lost in the worst of those 10 years 30% of their annual income and at the moment around 25% because of exchange rate fluctuations.
> 
> Not many can take that sort of loss and still have a comfortable life style
> 
> Sorry, probably slightly off topic to the original posting


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## Easyriders

Our post on this seems to have got swallowed! Basically, you don't need to be state pension age to get the fuel allowance, though it may be different if you live abroad. If you live in the EC, are over 60, retired, you should be eligible.


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## Easyriders

Just seen where it went! Got buried when we quoted Scattycat:


Might be on shaky ground here, as it isn't clear whether you already lived abroad when you retired. But Mr. E retired at 61 on health grounds, and won't get state pension until 65. He still got the fuel allowance straight away though, just had to fill in a form. So maybe you are entitled, and just need to make a claim? BTW, we really need the help with fuel now - we live half way up a mountain, it gets very cold, and we have no mains gas.


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## bktayken

if you live abroad then the PDF document(WFP2) ..Part 3 will help to clarify if you can claim.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/Benefits/BenefitsInRetirement/DG_198331

Brian


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## raynipper

UK’s winter fuel rules changed 

August 13, 2012 

MANY UK pensioners living in France may now be eligible for this year’s winter fuel payment.

Following a ruling by the European Court of Justice, the UK has had to ditch rules which previously stated that you needed to qualify for the payment before leaving the UK in order to claim while living abroad. This meant reaching age 60 by, or before, a certain “qualifying week”, usually in September of the year of the claim.

This ruled out people who became resident outside the UK before age 60. Also excluded was anyone who left the UK before the winter fuel payments were introduced in 1998.

Under the new rules, the only requirement is that a claimant should be of suitable age and “have a genuine and sufficient link with the UK, for example, you have lived or worked in the UK for most of your working life”.

In a letter to one couple in France, who left before 1998 (published on expats' campaigns site Pensioners Debout) the UK’s Pension Service said that “to assess this we will consider several factors, for example how long someone has lived and worked in the UK and whether they receive UK state pension or other benefits”.

The UK’s Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, reportedly called the EU ruling “ridiculous” and said he was looking at creating a rule on eligibility according to the temperature of the country the pensioner lives in. This follows outrage in the UK tabloid press about taxpayers being “squeezed” so as to fund expats in hot countries.

This year, under the new rules, the age requirements to qualify are that you should have been born on or before July 5, 1951 in order to claim the payment for winter 2012/13. Connexion will be querying why this appears to be stricter than the old “qualifying week” arrangements.

Claims can be put in up until March 31 next year and the payments are £200, or £300 (per household) for people aged 80 or more on or before September 23 this year. The amounts dropped as of last winter, from £250 and £400 in winter 2009/10.

See September’s issue of the paper for more on these changes. 

Ray.


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