# Panel Van Converions - water systems



## SwiftGroup

We were having a debate at Autocruise this morning about the way that people use "Camper Vans", especially the smaller ones based on mid sized vans like the VW Transporter or Renault Traffic. Of particular interest are two issues:- 1. Whether the cost and space claim of a water heater is justified, especially if vehicle does not have a washroom - is it better to just use the kettle? 2. Is a fitted water tank of 40 to 50 litres better than two x 25 litre water carriers, properly located but easily accessed? The tank can only be filled by getting close to the campsite tap or using a water carrier anyway (which the has to be stored somewhere!). 

Any views on these subjects from owners of smaller camper vans would be much appreciated - just send us a p.m. Thanks,

Steve Trossell


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## sallytrafic

Well we have a shower 'room' so perhaps biased, we use our webasto diesel water heating system most days for dish and personal washing as well as heating and hot water bottle. If we are on nice site with EHU then we tend to use their shower block and boil an electric kettle. It's the only thing we always carry that justifies the use of an EHU.

When we bought we didn't have a shower high on the list but did want a washroom and diesel heating.

We have a fixed fresh tank 72 litres but no fixed waste. With the smaller vans we are out and about from the sites more so its no hardship to top up the water on leaving or returning to site.


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## Steamdrivenandy

Hi Steve,

I thought I'd reply on open forum rather than PM as it might help stir more of a debate and more info for you.

Our van is based on a SWB Transit, an inch under 16ft long.

As standard it doesn't have a boiler but it's brother, the Cavarno, which also has oven and shower does.

We wanted to get as close to the Cavarno spec as possible whilst keeping the rear garage/boot space that differentiates our van.

We therefore included a Propex Gas/240V boiler among the options we had fitted, it cost a little under £500 inc. VAT. We definitely wanted hot water on tap even though we have no shower.

On the waste front we have a 54 litre fresh water tank and 30 litres waste, both underslung. We do find that despite being miserly with water use (normally using site shower blocks and washing up facilities) the waste fills up surprisingly quickly, although as we travel most days it's not normally a problem to drain and refill regularly. 

You might like to consider whether smaller vans are more likely to wild camp and therefore not have alternative sources/facilities for hot water and/or waste disposal.

HTH

Andy


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## johnandcharlie

If water tanks are built in, reliable and accurate gauges are essential. The gauges on my Bessacarr E350 are a real pain. They aren't even consistently inaccurate, and I never know where I am with water and waste. Sometimes I can roughly estimate what the level is, but at other times my usage varies and I completely lose track. A very simple low tech solution would be better than something electronic that needs regular attention.

And, if fitting a water heater, please insulate water pipes so that the heat from the hot pipe doesn't transfer to the cold pipe, so you have to waste water running the cold tap until it produces cold water.

Maybe these things don't happen on newer vans though.


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## Superk

In going from an RV to a less than 6-metre van I didn't want to give up a separated shower or hot water to go with it yet neither are any good without a decent water and waste. We tend to shower in the van most of the time. We have the usual Truma gas heater/water heater and the fresh water tank is 150 litres the waste 100 litres. So I don't think you have to give these things up.
 
Keith


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## framptoncottrell

We have a Murvi Morello (Fiat Ducato LWB 2.8 JTD) which uses an Eberspacher diesel heater for the space heating and the hot water. This means that we are independent of mains hook-up for heating/hot water which can be quite important. (We had a mains power cut on a CC site, for example, but were able to carry on regardless). We also have two decent sized fresh water tanks, and a rather smaller waste tank. So, again, we can fill up by hose when we arrive at a site and then forget about replenishing, unless we stay for more than a week, though the waste needs emptying every three or four days.
The Eberspacher allows the engine to heat the water (and van) while we are driving along so we always have hot water the moment we pitch up.
I've watched elderly campers (like us!) struggling with water containers, especially for (towed) caravans, and thanked our lucky stars for our permanent on-board tanks.

Dr (musical, not medical) Roy


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## smick

I'd go along with both the last two posters - but then one of them has an HRZ, so I would, wouldn't I ? In my view, I've got to the stage where I don't want to heave water carriers about, so I prefer my fresh and waste water inboard, preferably heated. 

We have a Truma combi-boiler, but I would have liked the option of a diesel heater like the Murvi has, to heat hot water as you go along - that seems to me efficient use of fuel. 

Excellent insulation and non-corrugated smooth bore piping would be my other requirements in a hot & cold water system.

Smick

PS - Nice to see the industry consulting before building !


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## CaGreg

Our Autosleepers Topaz has a Truma gas water and blown heater system. It also has water storage and grey waste tanks. It also has an integrated shower, toilet, basin bathroom.

We wildcamp in Ireland as much as possible, and have spent two weeks away without EHU. We spend a lot of time at the beach, body boarding, and therefore would use the beach shower facilities. 
We would never use the water heater just for washing, or doing dishes, we would just boil a kettle, but obviously would use any hot water if the heating system had been running. Not sure if this is the most economical way to do it, but the kettle gets boiled for tea and coffee quite often anyway.
We are very miserly with water, and carry three five litre containers of tap water as well as what is in the tank. This allows us to enjoy being independent for longer periods.
The smaller van allows us to park without being too noticeable and it is the biggest advantage of its size.
I would opt for water tanks, and onboard bathroom facilities every time.

Ca


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## trevd01

If you are talking small camper vans, we converted Bongo owners certainly have them. Ours is like a 7/8 scale VW California. Has fresh water and waste underfloor, cooker, sink, a porta poti in a cupboard, diesel space heater but no water heating. It has never occurred to me that having hot water would be worth the effort or cost. 

With these small vans it is more like tent camping, and we almost always go to the campsite washing up, as most bigger van and caravan owners seem to...

When camping on small sites with no hot water we boil a kettle - the sink only holds a couple of litres anyway.

No shower, so no hot water needed for that either, but then again we have friends with bigger motorhome and carvans who always use the campsite showers ("we have a shower but we only use it for hanging wet clothes in...")


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## Rapide561

*Water heater*

Hi

I have recently had the good fortunate to step in more than one Eriba caravan - the small ones with the pop top. These have a pull out water cannister that is simply taken to the tap for refilling etc, then replaced under the sink within the caravan.

I just wonder - and no doubt there is a reason - rather than a water heater such as Truma, is it possible to fit something like the type often found in washrooms, to motorhomes. I think one such brand is "Redring". This is like a small, wall mounted immersion heater. It would of course, leave the owner dependant upon electrical hook up, and provides instant hot water, drawing in water from the cold tank.

Russell

Note - I do not use/own a PVC.

Edit - I have just had a look at some of these PVC's via their manufacturers' websites, and, if I bought one tomorrow at their present pricing, I would expect hot water from the tap, rather than a kettle!


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## dencol

I've only had my van for about 9 months based on a MWB Boxer so apologies for the phrases still not upto speed with correct descriptions, the van has diesel hot air blower and hot water boiler and would not be without them. As a try out I borrowed a friends SWB van, no heater, no hot water and water was stored in carriers under the sink area. At the time did not seem to be too much of a problem although having a back problem meant carrying the water containers and grey waste container was a problem.
Now I would not be without the built in water, heating and hot water boiler (the friends have also changed their van to include heater, hot water etc).
At first I thought the heater and boiler set up took up space but in reality the space saving of not having separate water container more than makes up for the space taken by the heaters etc.
Perhaps it depends on your use of the vehicle, we did a number of weekends over the winter and the heater was a must also the onboard water (have been told we were lucky or words to that effect as the water tanks pipes etc did not freeze but the taps at the site did so no site water available)

Colin


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## maddie

Hi firstly how much are you hoping to sell the van for? anything over 22k and I would expect onboard water & heating also a loo/poti.If you are on about tranny swb size with carefull planning you can fit cooker sink fridge and shower/loo in no probs by using front seat swabs to make up the bed.Also inboard waste /fresh water along with waterheater/combi blown air, but then again it all adds to price.25 ltr is bloody heavy for some so tanks would be the better option.At the end of the day it all comes down to price and what the compitition offers :wink: I am away for a couple of weeks but would be willing to call at your mexbrough factory and throw in my twopenerth when I ge back. :lol: 
terry


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## Steamdrivenandy

I've been thinking about this issue since I posted yesterday.

Of course it all comes down to your target market and the pricing that market will accept, but there's also branding issues to consider. 

I would suggest that if the van is being produced as an Autocruise it should have full service water facilities as standard as you don't want to compromise the expectations that customers have of the brand. 

When it comes to producing the Mondial version you can afford to experiment a bit and could offer the standard van with cold water and in-cupboard water storage but include hot water and fixed tanks etc as part of an upgrade package as per the packages offered with other Swift Group motorhomes. That way you cover both markets, have a low entry price to entice customers and can judge whether the 'no frills' market actually exists and is worth developing for future products.

The invoice for my usual consultancy fee is in the post. :lol: 

Andy


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## SwiftGroup

Thanks for all you input - please keep the thoughts coming. 

Just to be clear, we would not consider offering a van the size of the Ducato or Boxer without a washroom, water tanks and water heating. The question is what do you do with a van which is only big enough for one small sink - is there any point in a water heater? There are small ones but they are mains electric only; the gas and diesel ones I know of are all big and would take up a lot of cupboard space. I think space is more critical than cost in this case.

On the question of the tanks versus carriers, I think it is clear from the responses that most camper van users find it easy to stop at the water point on the way in or out of the site and do not want to carry heavy containers. Do you carry several types of tap/hose connection or do you find most camp-site taps have screw thread connectors?

Thanks again for participating!

Steve


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## Rapide561

*Water*

Steve

Most - if not all motorhomes will have enough hose pipe attachments to be able to set up a hose pipe attachment shop.

Most sites have a screw thread type - and many have a "push on" type thing that accepts a Hozelock style adaptor, the type you could use on a domestic tap, and one that is tighted with a butterfly style clip.

In winter though, these taps on sites can freeze and we may need to resort to fetching water in the humble bucket!

R


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## rowley

Although I do carry a hose I normally use my watering can for topping up. The exercise does me good, I think.
Russells comment about the Redring type unit makes sense. I only use the Truma for heating hot water when on hook up. To use the gas to heat up 12 litres when I only require 1 does seem to be a waste and so I would rather boil a kettle.

I think that for me the Truma is a bit of a pain. First there is that automatic drain which I override. If you want to use the gas just for heating then it will heat the water too, even if you don't want hot water.. I am not sure if I can use the gas heating if there is no water in the Truma tank. And if you don't intend to use the Truma for hot water on a trip then you still have to fill it and waste 12litres (or is it 10?) of water. That is more than a watering can full! :roll:


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## Frantone

*Water in PVCs*

I responded to this thread via pm and, like Russell, mentioned the Eriba system. The initial question was about small pvcs and so the separate removable refillable water containers seem to be ideal. I would also question the need for a built in waste tank. Not having to take the van to a tap or dump would seem to be a better option for these smaller motorhomes. 
TonyP


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## Steamdrivenandy

I just knew that Rob would get his 'humble bucket' in somewhere :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Our Propex Gas/240V boiler takes up about 30% of the space under one of our rear seats (the rest of the space is used for bottles of wine wrapped in clean dog towels (a fine example of dual useage) and two bags of dry dog food plus all the electrical gubbins that I don't understand. 

On Rowleys point about heating a boiler full compared to a kettle I'm not so sure the kettle is more efficient. Judging by the temperature increase in our van when we boil a kettle (fine in winter but wasted in higher temperatures) a lot of heat is produced that doesn't go into the kettle. The boiler however is highly insulated and gives off virtually no heat inside its cupboard, but does expel it through the exhaust port. That is, of course, only applicable when on 100% gas as there's v little (if any) exhaust when on mains operation and you don't use much precious gas either.

Our most unused piece of kit is a wind up flat hose which you have to completely unwind before you can put water through it. A lot of sites have a goodly length of hose on the drinking water tap already. Although last week at several CC sites there was no hose, just a screw connector on the tap with a push on connector fitted on top. At Morn Hill CC site the MV service point is very awkwardly sited and we had to get our 'short hose' out to take water. Fortunately it was just long enough to reach after I risked demolishing the whole service point by reversing the van as close as I dared. 

Mind you I later semi demolished one of the CC 'no entry' signs as I reversed back onto our pitch much to the mirth of a group of tuggers sitting close by taking tea under their awning  

Andy

PS 
Steve, if you want to look over how all the stuff has been crammed into my sub 16ft van AND left room in the back for a 2ft deep 'garage' I'll be happy to drop down to Swinton. Maybe you can clear the car park so I can practice reversing :roll: 

SDA


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## sallytrafic

SwiftGroup said:


> clipped
> On the question of the tanks versus carriers, I think it is clear from the responses that most camper van users find it easy to stop at the water point on the way in or out of the site and do not want to carry heavy containers. Do you carry several types of tap/hose connection or do you find most camp-site taps have screw thread connectors?
> 
> Thanks again for participating!
> 
> Steve


Almost all have the screw (pipe thread) on to which many/most have attached a hose connector. Its the reason I carry a pair of water pump pliers in a readily available position to remove it (I always replace it afterwards).


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## SpeedyDux

Hello Steve,

As a small VW PV conversion owner, here's my tuppence worth:

_1. Whether the cost and space claim of a water heater is justified, especially if vehicle does not have a washroom - is it better to just use the kettle?_

A - Better just to use the kettle. We have no washroom, so we mostly use campsite facilities for ablutions and washing up.

_2. Is a fitted water tank of 40 to 50 litres better than two x 25 litre water carriers, properly located but easily accessed?_

A - Ours has on board 25 litre fresh and 25 litre waste tanks. This gives us enough capacity for 2 adults' use for up to 3 days, sometimes up to 5 days. By then we generally move on anyway.

A diesel-fired space heater is also perfect for this size of vehicle. If installed properly it is quiet. As a result, we only need a single Campingaz 907 gas cylinder. That saves storage space. It seemingly lasts forever because it only powers 2 gas rings on the hob, and another advantage is that we can buy refills just about anywhere in Europe.

I also prefer a compressor fridge. It's all but inaudible, and effective even in very hot weather. No need to carry more gas. No need for servicing. No need for ugly, draughty external vents.

SD


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## ingram

sallytrafic said:


> Almost all have the screw (pipe thread) on to which many/most have attached a hose connector. Its the reason I carry a pair of water pump pliers in a readily available position to remove it (I always replace it afterwards).


Me too and I always replace them 'finger tight' so the next motorcaravanner who hasn't a pair of grips can get them off.

Harvey :wink:


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## ingram

SwiftGroup said:


> On the question of the tanks versus carriers, I think it is clear from the responses that most camper van users find it easy to stop at the water point on the way in or out of the site and do not want to carry heavy containers.
> Steve


I am not and will not be a 'small camper' owner but I would think that a pair of 25litre 'bottles' would be fine, as long as they are located so that they can be either filled with the hose, *or* carried to the tap, however they will take up room, so if the alternative is an underfloor fresh water tank then I think that would be better. I normally fill my on board tank from the site tap but in case that is not convenient ( and sometimes on CL and CS type sites it is not always possible ) I carry a fold flat 25litre bottle and a 'Whale' pump / hose.

Harvey

PS. on another subject: some of the photo's on the Autocruise website are not accessible. I did send a message from the site to inform you but received no response and nothing has been done about it. End of 'thread hijack' :wink:


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## MikeyB

Some interesting points of view, but I think the main lesson to be learnt here is that no manufacturer, however clever, will be able to make a vehicle that suits everybody. We have owned small pop-top VWs, high-top VWs and are now on our second LWB High-top Transit based PVC. The last 3 vans have been home conversions,each one being sold for a very handsome profit to finance a newer base van each time, simply because we couldn't afford anything else. However the main advantage is that we have a van that suits us perfectly, and despite looking we have yet to find a proprietary conversion to match it. We have a huge double bed (prob the most important feature, considering how long you spend in it) and bags of work surface, loads of storage and a big fridge. We have never had a washroom(back to the original topic at last) as in our humble opinion they are literally a waste of space in a PVC. Used for perhaps 10/15 mins per day, they require you to carry extra water, extra waste,and, if you want a shower, you've got to heat that extra water as well! More fuel used! Most people we know that do have one ,say that they only use them for storing wet clothes etc as they are generally too small to be worthwhile. What's the obsession with a shower? When I was growing up we had a bath once a week, as did most folk. There are plenty of facilities on sites, so if you're desperate you can always book into one occasionally. Some might argue that they prefer to use Aires or wild-camp so need the shower on board, but does the extra weight,fuel and wasted space really justify itself when you could have more cupboards/worktop etc. To heat water we have always used a kettle...boil enough for the cuppa/meal and washing up at once so you only heat what you need. As for the loo, we have always used a Porta Potti. Small and easily stored, this has served us well for many years. It's no hardship to empty it occasionally and it just slides out of a cupboard in an instant.
Having said all that, we appreciate the fact that what suits us wont suit the next person and as I stated earlier, this is what a manufacturer has to try and do . So, it would be a brave decision to produce a conversion without all the bells and whistles because, some buyers,especially perhaps, first-timers must feel that they couldn't possibly cope without them. We think it's all part of the fun, having to do without a few of those things we take for granted at home.but then perhaps we're a bit odd!
Just a final thought. How long will it be before someone decides that they must specify a dishwasher /tumble dryer/washing machine?


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## MikeyB

Blimey, not him again! Sorry, in all my 'blathering', forgot the point about water storage. We have used both separate 5litre containers, and a built-in tank. Both pros and cons have already been addressed here already, but we have moved to a built-in mainly because it means I don't have to lug containers around any more. It does however have the disadvantage of having to take the van to ( or close to) the tap, necessitating carrying a hose together with a selection of fittings. In practice this has worked fine for the last 2 years. The tank is on-board so no freezing problems, and has a fool-proof ,totally accurate and reliable level gauge by way of a sight tube on the outside of the tank.
That's all folks, sorry to be so long-winded. Mike.


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## dencol

Not sure how practical this set up was but last year met someone with a self build who had their water and waste containers outside the van. They were then attached by hoses to the van similar to a caravan. They were the cheaper type containers and I don’t know how many may go ‘walk about’ during the year but when they went out for the day they left the containers as site markers, – They had the reg number on the side in large fluorescent lettering. They also had a nifty small suitcase trolley to carry the containers (pinched the idea – not the trolley). When leaving they appeared to store the containers in the back behind the rock and roll bed.
Colin


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## johnandcharlie

I often stop for lunch when I'm travelling, so onboard tanks are useful for rinsing salads, washing up etc, and not having to dump the waste water on the road. I use the kettle for all hot water except showers/all over washing when I'm not on a hookup.

Whenever I can I fill up from a tap. I now have 3 and 5 metre food quality pipes, the blue transparent ones you get in many caravan shops. One has a Hoselock fitting, and I have a plain tap adaptor that plugs into it, plus the rubber thing that comes with the pipe on a short length of pipe to fit into it. It still doesn't cover all the options! I've found most CC motor van service points I've used have a Hoselock ftting. I'm on a CL now where my pitch is next to the water tap, and filled up with the 3 and 5 metre pipes connected today.

I've also got 10 litre solid and 15 litre collapsible water containers, and bought one of those cheap luggage trolley things and a funnel at Newbury show.

Steamdrivenandy - I only had the 3 metre pipe when I filled up at Morn Hill. It only just reached and kept falling out. I didn't demolish the service point, but got pretty close to hitting the trees! I don't know how big vans manage.


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## maddie

SwiftGroup said:


> Thanks for all you input - please keep the thoughts coming.
> 
> Just to be clear, we would not consider offering a van the size of the Ducato or Boxer without a washroom, water tanks and water heating. The question is what do you do with a van which is only big enough for one small sink - is there any point in a water heater? There are small ones but they are mains electric only; the gas and diesel ones I know of are all big and would take up a lot of cupboard space. I think space is more critical than cost in this case.
> 
> On the question of the tanks versus carriers, I think it is clear from the responses that most camper van users find it easy to stop at the water point on the way in or out of the site and do not want to carry heavy containers. Do you carry several types of tap/hose connection or do you find most camp-site taps have screw thread connectors?
> 
> Thanks again for participating!
> 
> Steve


Right then we have more or less established you are thinking of a Fiat scudo type van ? this I assume will have a small side kitchen/fridge rock & roll type bed. In my opinion in this day you need a small water heater & van heater combined.Probably compressor fridge but would still expect built in water tanks,if going small 25 ltr ish then this could probably be a visual inspection for quantity ie clearish in a cupboard? If no waste tank then a storage tank (caravan type)needs to be supplied with means of carrying it.You are now up against bongo /honda type conversions and romahome so some homework required on them.Yes a kettle may be fine but again what price for a basic van.We can all manage with the kettle but do you want to pay £000s without what has become expected in a modern van.
terry


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## Steamdrivenandy

johnandcharlie said:


> I often stop for lunch when I'm travelling, so onboard tanks are useful for rinsing salads, washing up etc, and not having to dump the waste water on the road. I use the kettle for all hot water except showers/all over washing when I'm not on a hookup.
> 
> Whenever I can I fill up from a tap. I now have 3 and 5 metre food quality pipes, the blue transparent ones you get in many caravan shops. One has a Hoselock fitting, and I have a plain tap adaptor that plugs into it, plus the rubber thing that comes with the pipe on a short length of pipe to fit into it. It still doesn't cover all the options! I've found most CC motor van service points I've used have a Hoselock ftting. I'm on a CL now where my pitch is next to the water tap, and filled up with the 3 and 5 metre pipes connected today.
> 
> I've also got 10 litre solid and 15 litre collapsible water containers, and bought one of those cheap luggage trolley things and a funnel at Newbury show.
> 
> Steamdrivenandy - I only had the 3 metre pipe when I filled up at Morn Hill. It only just reached and kept falling out. I didn't demolish the service point, but got pretty close to hitting the trees! I don't know how big vans manage.


John,

I think the hose we used at Morn Hill was about 3m and I was just able to hold it on the edge of the water inlet and aim the flow. Mrs SDA kept an eye on the tap end as it was stretched tight and threatening to come apart.

I don't think I saw another van use the facilities in the 4 days we were there and we were pitched within sight of the MVWP.

On Sunday lunchtime I spotted my first toad which turned up and pitched just opposite the gents. It did look a bit out of place amongst so many small caravans. They're fine for the wide open spaces of the US but seem almost too big for a little old island like ours. Strangely I've still not seen one on the road, but they seem to be the latest thing for the perma orange tan and heavy gold jewellery guys.

Andy


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## Steamdrivenandy

maddie said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all you input - please keep the thoughts coming.
> 
> Just to be clear, we would not consider offering a van the size of the Ducato or Boxer without a washroom, water tanks and water heating. The question is what do you do with a van which is only big enough for one small sink - is there any point in a water heater? There are small ones but they are mains electric only; the gas and diesel ones I know of are all big and would take up a lot of cupboard space. I think space is more critical than cost in this case.
> 
> On the question of the tanks versus carriers, I think it is clear from the responses that most camper van users find it easy to stop at the water point on the way in or out of the site and do not want to carry heavy containers. Do you carry several types of tap/hose connection or do you find most camp-site taps have screw thread connectors?
> 
> Thanks again for participating!
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Right then we have more or less established you are thinking of a Fiat scudo type van ? this I assume will have a small side kitchen/fridge rock & roll type bed. In my opinion in this day you need a small water heater & van heater combined.Probably compressor fridge but would still expect built in water tanks,if going small 25 ltr ish then this could probably be a visual inspection for quantity ie clearish in a cupboard? If no waste tank then a storage tank (caravan type)needs to be supplied with means of carrying it.You are now up against bongo /honda type conversions and romahome so some homework required on them.Yes a kettle may be fine but again what price for a basic van.We can all manage with the kettle but do you want to pay £000s without what has become expected in a modern van.
> terry
Click to expand...

Terry,

I'm rather embarrassed to admit that a few weeks back I decided to buy a Wastemaster thinking I could use it like the tuggers and it would stop us spilling over regularly as we only have a 30 litre waste.

Unfortunately I discovered that when you clip it together with its wheels etc it's quite large. With all our other clobber there just isn't room to fit it in the van.

However it is handy for draining the waste when home and wheeling it out to the street drain.

We have a compressor fridge which is noisier than 3 way fridges but we've got used to it. It is rather limiting that you don't have the ability to switch it to alternative fuel when off hook up. If you're going to spec. it right then you need a large capacity leisure battery to give you enough power and that adds additional cost, if not space.

Andy


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## maddie

:lol: yeah ANDY we found this out with our first van,the waste tub took up more room :lol: I bought a small murvi tranny swb and that had a small w/heater that worked off the engine and propes heater,but I never got to the bottom of it as my brother bought it after 2 days but I thought at the time how good was that :wink: Not too bothered about commpressor fridge or 3 way just my thoughts as to what I would want in a new van :lol: 
terry


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## SwiftGroup

*Water Sytems*

It looks like a few posts on this thread were lost yesterday with the server changeover. That included mine, so here goes again.....

We appreciate all your contributions, they have been very interesting. As usual with any subject like this, opinions are very diverse but I think a picture has emerged that tells us that a water tank and waste tank are necessary because (a) they take no space if they are outside, (b) it allows more independance and (c) many people want to use the site or home tap and do not want to carry heavy containers. The views on water heating seemed to polarise depending on whether you are a camper at heart or a luxury motorhomer. On balance I think it should be an option, probably a small 230v unit because all the gas or diesel ones make quite big space claims.

Thanks again,

Steve


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## safariboy

I suspect that those who buy smaller vans are very mobile and want to stop off in airs etc and places where there is not even a tap so a water tank is a help. The water heater will, I suspect, be less important to them.
I am not so sure about a 240V water heater. If I had one of these vans I would want to camp away from sites and so a 240V heater not very useful. Air heating on gas would be better if possible.


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## Steamdrivenandy

safariboy said:


> I suspect that those who buy smaller vans are very mobile and want to stop off in airs etc and places where there is not even a tap so a water tank is a help. The water heater will, I suspect, be less important to them.
> I am not so sure about a 240V water heater. If I had one of these vans I would want to camp away from sites and so a 240V heater not very useful. Air heating on gas would be better if possible.


There is also the opposite argument which runs that people who buy smaller vans with less facilities will use full service campsite pitches to make up for some of the shortfall in their on-board services. I know we stopped using showground sites in the main because we kept running down the batteries so there wasn't enough juice to run our compressor fridge or diesel heater.

Andy


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## 90487

Onboard, or much better underslung waste tank is a must , an underslung fresh water tank is perhaps not so important on a small van provided that there is designed in storage for a portable water container.

The attraction of small vans is there ability to go into towns and out of the way places. It just does not look cool when your parked in Tesco's or a nice National Trust car park to have to get out plonk your waste tank on the ground when you want to rinse your tea cups  I see a few owners of M/Hs who just let the dishwater run out over the carpark, not all of them are small vans either. The temptation is great "ah it's only a bit of dishwater" :evil: 

I know you can't put quart into a pint pot so perhaps a water heater would be further down my list than an air heater A cup of tea is essential in the morning. Boil enough water tor the tea, dishes and ablutions in one go :lol: 

There must be a market for small vans judging by the proliferation of the Bongo's and similar. But is this just the size? I suspect that because they are converted from a car derived vehicle the high level of spec and good sized engine with auto makes them excellent for everyday use, there are some very clever conversions around. No, I don't own one :lol: 

Carol


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## sallytrafic

Witch I have never considered looking cool as a prerequisite for enjoying a motorhome. In 20 years of owning motorhomes I have never owned a motorhome with a waste tank.

Also Swiftgroup a 230V heater wouldn't do it for me it has to be diesel or at a stretch LPG otherwise when you need it most no hot water. They are very small nowadays after all most of the components are fitted to private cars in Finland etc


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## Grizzly

In a small space with no fitted shower I would prefer not to have a big water heater. I could get by with a kettle for washing up and body wash.

I could not do without a fitted waste and fresh water tank however. Several reasons:

In winter there is a danger of the separate containers freezing as they will have to be left outside

If you're going to have to take containers with you -as you are- then they might as well be fitted

Having to put the waste container under the drain every time you stop is a nuisance and, in busy aires, they could get knocked over or even stolen. 

A big water container will require, unless you are strong enough to carry it full, either a smaller, more portable, container or a trolley. A fitted container only requires a hose.

Given that many panel vans are owned by people who are downsizing because of age or infirmity, they need to be made as easy to use as possible.

G


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## 105109

*waste water tanks/heaters in vans.*

Hi,

We had a VW Trooper for 7 years before buying our Trigano Tribute. It was fine for a while, space made us change. We liked the fresh water/waste water being underneath the van, they did not take valuable storage space. Because of the layout, the bed was too small though. We had no hot water and never found this a drawback, we carried an electric kettle or could use the gas. We did have gas blown air heating.

On the Trigano, we would never consider using the shower as a shower, would always use the facilities. We do like the private WC though, on the Trooper you had to go round closing all curtains etc. if you wished to use the porta potti during the day - time consuming if you are desperate!

We have never used the water heater yet, we still just boil a kettle. We are paying for electricity on site anyway, why use the gas. We do not like the fresh water container position either, both the water heater and water container are using up good storage space by being inside the van. The water is not as easy to fill as the VW trooper either, we have bought a very large funnel and fill from the top inside the van, it is much quicker than from the outside.

We go away for the day a lot, I just carry some containers of water with us for use, hot water will stay hot enough for washing hands etc. and I can take flasks with boiling water just to be topped up on the gas. We also carry a bottle of "made up" flush water in the toilet to save filling the tank.

We have never ever used the diesel heater, on site we use an electric heater - again we are paying for the electricity, why use expensive diesel. If it is very warm, the fan heater can blow cold air as well.

I know you are not asking about cooking facilities but should add that we like the 3 ring hob that actually lets you sit your pots with plenty space instead of the 2 burner one we had where the pots were touching one another.

Perhaps we should be classed as "Mean Scots", I would rather be known as a careful Scot.

Jacobite


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