# Please watch this video but be warned......



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The video on this page from the Reading and Berkshire News is not an easy one to watch as it is very graphic and explains the heartbreak caused by allowing a distraction to reduce your concentration while driving. Many of us have seen some parts of the video broadcast on the National News, but not all.....

Newspaper report and video link

I apologise if it causes distress, but the underlying message is very clear and needs to be stressed to anyone behind the wheel....

Sadly I am sure that most of us will witness other drivers being distracted in similar ways.....

Dave


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

I am absolutely staggered by the number of commercial drivers that I see using their phones while driving. The message just doesn't seem to get through to them. Many are driving around in 38 tonne trucks with phones clamped to their ears while they drive at speed or while negotiating roundabouts etc. The A34 tragedy was one of the worst that I can remember but sadly similar tragedy's take place far too frequently. In my opinion transport firms are not doing enough to educate or to punish their staff . The penalties also need to be harsher but of course that will be of little consolation to the families of those affected. We were on the A34 heading north from Southampton when we heard about this accident and have followed the story since then. The cab cam footage is very sobering - 4 lives wiped out in an instant! R.I.P.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The penalties for HGV or PSV drivers using mobiles are VASTLY greater than those for car drivers as well!

Andy


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

There's a saying 'Familiarity breeds contempt.'

If almost everybody's doing it then...................!

It now seems a great mistake for the Police to have backed off the problem for so long (under orders I presume) and come back now when innocent people have already lost their lives through no fault of their own.
Perhaps the money could have been spent which has been spent on the pursuit of the phantom celebrity sex offenders.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think Gillian that the police have been compelled to "back off" due to the massive reductions in Traffic Police that they have had to make..... It is not unusual to drive for a very long time without seeing Traffic Police.....

Sadly, the Law is not easily enforced, but there are initiatives to try to increase the social unacceptability of it - as happened with drink/driving, including encouraging other motorists to report errant drivers (being trialled by one Police Force I believe) - that will not be popular I suspect..... but it may be the only way to make it unacceptable.

Until the majority of the public are against an action and express their unhappiness it will continue, IMO cars and phones have now become too complex and too inter-dependent - phones are mini-computers now and no-one would accept someone driving along using a computer like a laptop while they drive..... but using a phone is not such a thing......

I only use my phone for phone calls, even though it could do more I don't want it to, but I am in the wrong generation to be dependent on my phone, most younger people use their phone like we used to use a pencil and paper and often "doodle" while driving i.e. send texts, use apps, check e-mails or messages and so on - nothing "serious" just time-filling things like we used to doodle....

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Spot on Dave !

Andy


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Round here its humongous farm vehicles with the drivers on mobiles. They have got faster over the years as well and much bigger and heavier.. No police here at all though ever.


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## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Maybe Mr Plodd can answer this - If you had a clear cut case of someone using a mobile while driving, caught on video cam( no accident caused), and took it to the police would they / could they use it to prosecute .


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Would they NEED to prosecute?

I just wonder what would happen if the police car stopped outside the house and asked the driver to accompany them to the station for a discussion, at the end of which he/she was released without charge?

I suspect the social pressure from the neighbouring curtain twitchers would very quickly spread the world about what had happened.....

If they even just stopped outside and went in and discussed things the neighbourhood grapevine would be working overtime and questions would be asked....

Social unacceptability is the only way that people will self-regulate themselves - prosecution is not always the best answer - surely that's why Driver Awareness Courses were introduced as an alternative to a Speeding prosecution? It is simply designed to make drivers think "it's not worth it".

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> Maybe Mr Plodd can answer this - If you had a clear cut case of someone using a mobile while driving, caught on video cam( no accident caused), and took it to the police would they / could they use it to prosecute .


Yes it COULD be used, but the problem would be getting the Police to actually Persue it. They can be very anti any evidence not obtained by them.

Worth trying, but don't hold your breath :frown2:

Andy


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Surely there must be some kind of technology that prevents phones being used in cars/hgv's? There was tv footage of one man getting fined for using his mobile phone and his immediate response was that he would now lose his job. His company had a zero tolerance plan in place.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think the technology exists to prevent phones being used while going faster than a certain speed but manufacturers have not incorporated it as they rightly say, it is impossible to distinguish between a driver and a passenger, or even passenger on a train or bus who could clearly expect to be able to use their phone....

I am sure that if someone has the will to develop a system to interlink the phone with the vehicle but there seems little pressure to do so. Lorries should be one of the highest priorities for such a scheme and certainly lorry and fleet owners and operators should be required to have hands-free installations for their drivers to use......

But it all comes down to social pressure as well as legal requirements, until that changes the whole unwelcome pattern will continue sadly....

Dave


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## pj650 (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi Penguin
Most lorries nowadays do have hands free installed phones which can't be lifted out of their cradles.I drive a 44 tonne fuel tanker,and our cab phone can only be used with the handbrake on,engine off,ignition on.Our company do not want phones to be used at any time when the vehicle is in motion.
The biggest issue is with personal mobiles being used.We are not allowed to take our own mobile phones in the cab at any time,and they stay in our locker at work on in our car when we are at work.Get caught with your mobile.......you're finished!! You've broken the terms of your contract.No appeal..bye bye.
The sooner more companies make it a rule about using your mobile and driving,the better.
I understand if a driver is away all week,he needs his mobile to contact home,but what is so bloody important that you can't stop to make a quick phone call?
Granted,I am of the generation who grew up using phone boxes.We all know they have mostly disappeared now and mobile phones are very convenient.But, they are a huge distraction when used while driving,and it has been proved time and time again to have been the main factor in many accidents.The driver who killed 4 people got away with a very light sentence as far as I am concerned.He deserved much more.
When I started this job years ago,I realised within the first week just how relaxed I was without my mobile in the cab.
There is life without a mobile phone being used while driving.
But until the police put the resources into doing something about it,and I know they are stretched to the limit, it will keep on happening.If the death of 4 people doesn't make drivers of ALL vehicles change their ways,then there is not much hope of a change,is there?
Penguin,keep on banging the drum.I am 100% in agreement with you.It is one of my pet hates.Sorry to have gone on for so long.
Peter.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thank you VERY much for that detailed response - it had information that I have NEVER heard elsewhere and which would seem to at least reduce the likelihood of a problem.

The driver of the fatality causing lorry was presumably not using his phone for an authorised activity and may well have been using "an unapproved" mobile anyway, I understand he was changing his music selection.... so only using the phone's storage ability for data.

It certainly sounds like your firm has taken things seriously BEFORE they needed to, I hope that ALL other companies take a similar decision and make similar arrangements. As regards using the phone as a source for music that may well be a harder one to tackle, but surely not beyond the ability of the bright people that program phones etc?

But what an interesting reply you have given us all, thanks again,

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

It's all very well to install a device that prevents a mobile being used over a certain speed BUT........

What about any passengers wanting to use their phones, Especially on a coach or a train?? Are they to be excluded from using a phone because they are moving but NOT in charge of a vehicle???

What seems like a simple solution actually opens a whole new can of worms. 

Andy


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Driving into work this morning. A short journey of 3 miles, I saw 5 people on mobile phones with one young texting with one hand and a cigarette in the other hand taking two young kids to school. Total Madness. I think as well as a fine and points on your licence you should me made to also attend a course where videos, like this one are shown to people. But I bet their is a hard core of people you will never change.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Revise said:


> But I bet their is a hard core of people you will never change.


I am sure that you are correct in that, in exactly the same way as there are still (too many) people who flout the drink/drive laws or the seatbelt laws....

But the only way to tackle such things is using a sliding scale of severity of outcome, initially I understand it is a £60 fine and 3 points, does it get increased for any subsequent offences?

IMO if you have been prosecuted twice then a suspension should be imposed and perhaps three offences = a driving ban - but that is my opinion only of course.....

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Good luck with those Dave !!!!

I suspect the "Bleeding heart liberals" would be howling in protest at the infringement of their "Yuman rights" UNTIL that is one of their nearest and dearest is affected.

Of course mobile phone use isn't the only serious distraction is it? How many times have you seen the driver turning around to remonstrate with a child in the rear seat, or turning their head sideways in order to speak with the front seat passenger (never understood why people do that, it's unnecessary) or reach down to change a CD, or programme the Satnav (very common and time consuming that one) or pick something up off the floor etc etc (however these are "short term" issues, not like a phone call) 

Until it becomes "Socially unacceptable" the matter will persist. Eventually, like drink driving, people will not accept it and public attitudes will change (I certainly saw a big change around drink driving during my career) but it will take a loooong time. 

I have fully voice activated integrated hands free in my car, it gets used very little but I do not feel it's any more of a distraction than conversing with my passengers because, in essence, there is no difference, in fact it's LESS distracting because there is no temptation to look at the person you are speaking to (see above) which I never do anyway (turn to speak to them) 

I can hear the gasps of surprise from some at the previous statement but, when you think about it, is there REALLY any difference between holding a conversation with someone else via a fixed microphone and talking to your front seat passenger??? 

HOWEVER, it is a non negotiable proviso, any such phone call is only conducted by "voice activation" and TOTALLY hands free. 

Just think carefully about what I have actually said before launching into "I don't BELIEVE you just said that" mode.

Andy


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Using a mobile whilst driving is as bad as drink driving, and it should carry the same harsh penalty you get if you are caught drink driving. The first time you are caught you will receive a large fine and a compulsory 12 month ban. As it stands 3 points and £60 fine is not enough.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The offence is using a HAND HELD mobile phone, and I agree 100% it should carry the same penalty as drink driving, an automatic disqualification (I would go for six months) AND include driving with no insurance under the same penalty regime.

Andy


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Mrplodd said:


> HOWEVER, it is a non negotiable proviso, any such phone call is only conducted by "voice activation" and TOTALLY hands free.
> 
> Andy


Somekind of device that blocks any phone signal in the car. The only way to get a signal from inside the car it to put the phone into such a cradle and can only be used hands free whilst inside the cradle. I know it will annoy passengers. But if it saves lives then it would be worth it.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah that would work well, the only problem with that could be that many modern cars have an automatic notification to emergency services (via a mobile phone signal) if the vehicle is involved in a serious collision, wouldn't want that to be disabled. I am sure however that issue could be overcome IF the will ever exists to implement your excellent idea.

In the meantime I would place snipers at convenient vantage points to rid the world of those dopey creatures who think it's still OK to use hand held mobiles whilst driving. Might have a problem getting that one through Parliament though.

Andy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There are ways around the inability to send an emergency signal of course, since if you are involved in an rtc the likelihood is that the airbag would have been deployed - that circuitry could easily interrupt the block of signal for the car as of course, one would NOT continue to drive once the air bag has been deployed.....

I like the way Andy has his set up, ours have hands free but we don't use it as we don't turn the phone on and also there are USUALLY 2 of us in the car so the passenger can deal with a call if it is essential.

Sadly, the number of times you see TV presenters talking to camera while driving is horrendous - that is JUST as distracting as children, passengers etc. but the Producers seem to want that sort of action shot..... Disgraceful IMO.



Mrplodd said:


> In the meantime I would place snipers at convenient vantage points to rid the world of those dopey creatures who think it's still OK to use hand held mobiles whilst driving. Might have a problem getting that one through Parliament though.
> 
> Andy


Unless it was an EU Directive and automatically became part of UK Law through the Great Repeal Act? :grin2:

Until society rejects such anti-social behaviour (phone use, not the sniper idea) it sadly WILL continue. Individuals will only object when they are affected PERSONALLY with a relative or very close friend being the victim......

Dave


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

This is something that has bothered me for a long time. We have heard about enough sad cases & in my opinion we will continue to hear about them until decisive action is taken. I believe immediate confiscation of both the phone & the SIM card, which would provide a short, sharp shock, may work. Below I have copied a letter which I sent to the Minister of Transport proposing my idea. Incidentally, I believe the present penalty is £100 plus 3 points, shortly to be raised to £200 plus 4 points. 
_
You are obviously aware of the immense problem of people using phones whilst driving. When out & about on the roads, you see it all the time & it has caused some terrible accidents. I particularly noticed it when on my way down to London on a coach trip. Sitting high up in the coach you could look down on most other drivers & even see what lorry drivers were up to. 
This morning I have heard that the lorry driver responsible for the dreadful accident on the A34 at Newbury, resulting in several people being killed, has pleaded guilty to using his phone at the time. How many more people have to endure this terrible tragedy before something meaningful is done?
This is an idea I have been thinking about for some time. Evidently the present penalties (£100 fine plus 3 points) are inadequate to deter people from using them. How about my idea? Make the Police confiscate the phone (including the SIM card) IMMEDIATELY. This should work as these idiots are so attached to their phones that they would feel like their right arm has been cut off if they lose their phone.
The phone could only be retrieved (from the police station) after one week. If caught a second time, the police would retain it for two weeks. For a third offence, the phone would be retained for a month. Any subsequent offences would result in permanent confiscation. A fixed charge (say £25) could be applied upon retrieval to cover the Police costs.
The need to retrieve the phone would cause inconvenience to the offenders, particularly if they had to travel out of their area to do so. I am sure this would be a more effective deterrent than the present fine & points.
The Police already confiscate the vehicle from anyone using it without insurance so there is a precedent for confiscation. It is not as severe as confiscating the vehicle, but maybe this could be considered also for persistent offenders.
I am sure the thought of losing their phone would be much more of a deterrent than the present penalties, which are obviously not working well, if at all.
I am aware that you are proposing to double the present penalties but in my opinion this is nowhere near enough to deal with the problem. A short, sharp shock such as would be received from confiscation of the phone & SIM card would be more effective.
A further problem with the present system is that some people are able to avoid losing their licence when "totting up" 12 or more points by pleading "hardship" to the magistrates. Surely the time to think about "hardship" is before committing the offence? If you feel the defence of hardship is justified, should it be used again & again? I have heard there are people still driving around with 20 or more points on their licence. This, to my mind, makes a mockery of the whole system. If there has to be a defence of "hardship" it should only be permitted once._

In the Minister's reply he implied that they are intending to increase the penalties, again, even beyond the already announced increase. I'll believe it when I see it.:frown2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Good luck with those Dave !!!!
> 
> I suspect the "Bleeding heart liberals" would be howling in protest at the infringement of their "Yuman rights" UNTIL that is one of their nearest and dearest is affected.
> 
> ...


I am afraid I am going to disagree with that statement Andy. I realise I am on a sticky wicket with your experience as an officer of the law but I dont think it is the same as having a conversation with someone in the car. In a car the person sat next to you is tuned into what is going on (well usually) around them. So you might tend to get a lull in the conversation or the passenger will go quiet if you have to overtake or negotiate a difficult junction or roundabout for example. A remote person will just blab on regardless as they have no idea where you are or what you are doing. By that rational really speaking hands free or just holding a phone to your ear on the M1 say is not much different to me. I Think the distraction from the conversation is worse than holding a bit of plastic to your ear. The holding of the plastic is not dangerous in itself (Well a bit) but your mind being somewhere else out of the car is. Holding the phone is no more dangerous than smoking a *** / vape or driving one handed with your other hand on your knee. All these things are bad but I think the main culprit is you are concentrating on the conversation often straining to hear and understand and talking back loudly then waiting to see if the person understood you.

I used to do 40000+ miles a year and ive lost count of the number of times I have missed junctions on the M1, A1 etc when I have been involved in a lengthy maybe technical phone call. Hands free of course and ive not done it for years. I never missed one when not on the phone or if I had a passenger talking to me.

Just ban the use completely in all vehicles hands free or not and raise the fine to £500.


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