# Downhill braking or retarder on Ducato?



## handiyman (May 1, 2005)

With our Frankia I760BD (4.5 tonne) I always have to brake on going downhill. I use my gears obviously, but even in second gear on a decent downhill I have to step on the brakes. 
I enquired about fitting a retarder, but was told it cannot be done because the Fiat is frontwheel driven, so no axle to fit the retarder to.
Anyone got this problem as well and any other solutions, (other than wearing out the brakes of course)


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## 100127 (Jul 20, 2006)

You could see whether an exhaust brake could be fitted, its like a butterfly flap in the exhaust pipe that when closed virtually chokes the engine.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Telma*

Hi

I often wish I had a Telma retarder or similar fitted to the van. These devices are fabulous pieces of kit and along the with exhaust brake, are standard on most coaches.

Russell


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Braking*

Could it be worse than Braking a 3/4 series Sprinter on a level stretch of road?

Trev.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Telma*

Available on Mercedes Sprinters And Mervolks Crafter

Since 2007

Now Includes the Mercedes Sprinter 6 ton Alko


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I think that the Telma works on the prop shaft. An absolute delight to use but I guess if it were fitted (in some manner) to a Fiat, the cost factor may well exceed the cost of replacement brakes. From what I remember, they were fitted to coaches and lorries to save time off road having brakes replaced when it would be an economical alternative.
Alan


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

I am with Teemyob on this one. I would pay almost anything to improve the brakes on our 2005 Sprinter. I know in the back of my mind that it will stop in an emergency, but I really do not want to test it out.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

leseduts said:


> I am with Teemyob on this one. I would pay almost anything to improve the brakes on our 2005 Sprinter. I know in the back of my mind that it will stop in an emergency, but I really do not want to test it out.


I just use the brakes, after all they don't cost that much to replace.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Strangely, our Ducato with the Comfortmatic box does the complete opposite. It often chooses a way too low a gear and I am forever having to change up or use manual.

Beware of too much downhill braking. I have only ever suffered brake fade on a bike and that was quite enough for me!

Ron


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

ob1 said:


> Strangely, our Ducato with the Comfortmatic box does the complete opposite. It often chooses a way too low a gear and I am forever having to change up or use manual.
> 
> Beware of too much downhill braking. I have only ever suffered brake fade on a bike and that was quite enough for me!
> 
> Ron


I know what you mean, just after I passed my test( in the year dot) I was travelling down a steep hill in the Cotswolds out of gear and applying the brakes most of the way down. At the bottom I had to slow down to give way to a car travelling up the hill unfortunately I couldn't as I had no brakes what so ever.....very scary! 8O 8O

We both survived but I have never driven down a hill out of gear since and I always give my brakes a chance to cool now and then..


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I have had both Telma Retarder and exhaust brakes on various American RVs.
Apart from the cost, the weight of the Telma is colossal also battery drain.
The exhaust brake system is much cheaper and lighter but more engine modifications have to be done. Again cost.

But they were both brilliant in use and gave you much more confidence when descending hills.

Ray.


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## jamest (Mar 9, 2011)

Our ducato panel van 07 is awful brake wise. Struggled to get to the bottom of groeslochner (the high alpine road) even with engine braking 1st/second gear we had fade and smoke from the front discs. Very alarming. Brakes were changed a little over 1000 miles before. 

Still made it to the bottom in the end. Now we just make sure to stop and let them rest every opportunity when going over steep passes


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

This is not a criticism but how do heavy lorries and white vans manage?
Ok! Over a certain size lorries most have secondary breaking but many other vehicles do not. At the top of long steep hills, there is invariably a sign saying 'Engage low gear' and I am aware that diesel engines are not as efficient as petrol engines for breaking. However if you are not in too great a hurry, a low gear should deal with all but the most severe of steep hills. The bonus is that on over-run, theory has it that you will use virtually no fuel at all! 
Alan


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## jamest (Mar 9, 2011)

The problem for us was the sheer number of hairpin bends!


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

rosalan, you have obviously never driven your motorhome down any seriously steep long continental hill, if you had you would not have written that comment. Should you (or any other driver) try your tactic I believe you would cause serious engine damage, unlike when running the engine on power it is impossible to over-rev as the governor / electrical control will control the revs to a safe maximum, with the vehicle motion driving the engine there is no such safeguard.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I have driven around most of Europe in a variety of vehicles in cars, vans and buses and would agree with you regarding the seriously long, steep hills, particularly with hairpins galore. However most, if not all, of the main highway hills I have traversed at a slow manageable speed without pressing my gearbox to the limit. I may not always be popular with some larger vehicles with their Telma on three clicks and cold brakes but having had Citroen discs catch fire leaving only gas between the pads and the discs, I am always very conscious of not overheating my brakes and have so far managed to avoid over straining the various diesel engines I have driven. I am not a fantastic driver, just a bit over cautious.
Alan


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## locrep (Dec 5, 2011)

Have to agree with rosalan, always managed without retarders, until ten years ago no commercial vehicle had a decent exhaust brake unless it had a Cummins with a Jake brake fitted, 25 years ago the only vehicles that never made it to the bottom of the Mont Blanc were the ones that passed you at speed near the top on the way down.

Dave.


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## jamest (Mar 9, 2011)

The problem for us was the sheer number of hairpin bends!


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