# The Zipper Method



## charlieivan (Apr 25, 2006)

What do you all think of this method of beating the frustration of queue jumpers when approaching lane closures. It seemed to work well at roundabouts a few years ago when we had a holiday in Guernsey. Each driver took turns as they approached the roundabout so helping to keep the traffic moving. Haven't been back since so don't know if this is still the case.

http://www.wimp.com/heres-why-those...=partner&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=life


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

If every driver would stick to it then it would work great. But there is always on a$$ who thinks he has the god given right to be in front of everyone and will try to get one more cars length at is will save them 0.5 seconds. I thnk this method should be in the highway code for people to learn.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

In many states in the US it is law, I think it should be here too.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I take it you mean the Merge idea.It is recommended but nothing legal yet. I do it all the time, only the other day an arse decided that I was out of order and drove his new BMW X5(need I say more) up onto the verge and overtook me on the inside to get back in front and then stopped blocking the road and got out and came down to me to berate me for my driving.The queue behind me just sat there and waited.He did not want to hear about the merging sequel, fortunately his wife called him away before he had a heart attack.
The road was 2 lanes for 50 yards before and after the T junction controlled by T/lights.30% of traffic there does turn left. 

cabby


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

cabby said:


> I take it you mean the Merge idea.It is recommended but nothing legal yet. I do it all the time, only the other day an arse decided that I was out of order and drove his new BMW X5(need I say more) up onto the verge and overtook me on the inside to get back in front and then stopped blocking the road and got out and came down to me to berate me for my driving.The queue behind me just sat there and waited.He did not want to hear about the merging sequel, fortunately his wife called him away before he had a heart attack.
> The road was 2 lanes for 50 yards before and after the T junction controlled by T/lights.30% of traffic there does turn left.
> 
> cabby


Yep I agree Phil, I do it as well but it will never work in this country due to Aholes like you mention. If people come down the outside just leave a gap, let em in and stop getting so angry. Its pretty much accepted in mainland Europe but God forbid you if you try it here.

Every few days I ride into Bridlington on the scooter and there is always a queue of traffic up the main street, sometimes several hundred yards long. Of course you just filter / zip past it all but nearly every time someone will see you and often deliberately pull out a bit in an attempt to stop me. On a scooter FFS!  In other countries on a bike the opposite happens, cars pull over.


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## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

I like driving in Greece as people move over to let you pass if you catch up to them. Much easier to see them in your rearview mirror and then move to the nearside, no need for tailgating, flashing lights or fist waving. It becomes a rhythm that is quite stress free and a lot less dangerous than some idiot trying to force you to get out of their way. 

Never catch on here though, too many important people whose needs are far greater than the rest of us mere mortals who clog up their roads.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

You move over in Texas as well or your likely to get yer wing mirrors shot off.

Ray.


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes, I do it all the time. Usually draws protests from SWMBO but i have to cock a deff 'un to that.
I just can't understand why people sit in a long line in the inner lane, when the outer lane is empty. Then they get mad with you for using that empty lane.:frown2:


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

I recall having a bit of a heated debate on this forum over this very subject, many years ago. 

From faded memory, it was regarding a stretch of dual carriageway that had long term roadworks and single file traffic. The dual carriageway had several roundabouts on the approach to the coned taper and it was deemed safer to have two shorter queues of traffic on the approach, rather than one long queue, which tailed back over some of the roundabouts, causing widespread disruption on other roads, well away from the roadworks. 

The contractors put up several "Merge In Turn" signs, to encourage use of both lanes down to the pinch point and reduce the length of the queue, but as discussed earlier, they struggled to merge, as the motorists who had sat for ages in the queue and who had ignored the empty lane and signs, wouldn't let them in.

It came to a head one morning when a good 1/2 mile from the roadworks, I came across a lorry driver straddling the centre lines and refusing to let any one past in the empty lane. I can't remember now if he got a ticking off, or if I prosecuted him for unnecessary obstruction, but a former member on here took the hump, as he thought the lorry driver was correct.

Things have changed for he better and the merging is becoming more commonplace, but we haven't got it off to a fine art yet !


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

We also have this discussion. It is crazy that one lane is virtually empty whilst we all dutifully queue in the other. 

There are very few permanent 'Merge in turn' signs around but I cant believe in this day and age we couldn't re-educate folks quite quickly as to efficacy of the idea...

Graham :smile2:


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

It will never work, 2 into 1 won't go or you cannot ever squeeze a pint into a quart pot no matter how hard your try.
peedee


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

peedee said:


> It will never work, 2 into 1 won't go or you cannot ever squeeze a pint into a quart pot no matter how hard your try.
> peedee


It does work mate - I have seen it work here and abroad.

Graham :smile2:


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

GMJ said:


> It does work mate - I have seen it work here and abroad.
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Putting two congested lanes of traffic in to one is always going to result in queues, but the advantages of this method are numerous....

Helps keep traffic flowing albeit slowly, reduces the stress and anger of those who have sat in the queue longest, reduces stress and anger of those using the empty lane and being prevented from merging, shortens the queue length by half thereby reducing the impact on junctions on the approach.

I agree it does work, but everyone has to do their bit 0

Ken.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I always find it funny when the bloke in the inner lane suddenly gets a massive loss of periphery vision when your looking to merge. You know he has seen you but the car pulls up as close as possible to the one in front, the arms stiffen on the steering wheel, head tilts a bit and lip stiffens in defiance. Your not getting in mate!  This usually turns to a look of terror when you go for it anyway as your driving an ancient battered Golf that resembles the Top Gear Toyota pickup. Mwhahahaha!


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Having been stuck for half an hour at the Bodmin road widening scheme only a couple of weeks ago, I remain unconvinced. Why on the motorway works do they alway try and maintain three lanes, albeit narrow ones?
peedee


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

peedee said:


> Why on the motorway works do they alway try and maintain three lanes, albeit narrow ones?
> peedee


It makes a big difference in peak times as the volume of traffic passing through will be that much more. They would still have to have a speed limit (usually 50mph on motorway roadworks) even if it was two lanes open.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

There is a roundabout near the west end of the Bournemouth ring road that hasa 'Merge in Turn' system that works quite well - maybe because it is mostly local(ish) traffic.

I wonder whether it would help if on the signs indicating a lane reduction in 600/400/200 yds/m it were also displayed 'Merge in Turn', whether it would encourage drivers to use both lanes and do what it said? Thus both lanes would be full, so there would not be a 'free' outside lane for speedsters and the inner lane drivers would not resent the guys/gals speeding past in the other lane.

Any thoughts whether it would work, Punters?

Geoff


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I am trying to remember where I have seen such signs, they are about, but are advisory only at the moment.

cabby


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

cabby said:


> I am trying to remember where I have seen such signs, they are about, but are advisory only at the moment.


A lot of them on the A303 which is sensible as there are frequent switches between dual and single carriageway.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think the new smart MWays are taking care of the problem

Sandra


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

There is a road I travel often where it goes under the airport runway, two lanes coming into one, the right lane is always empty, so I use it, I assume it was put there to be driven on, I then merge in turn, but talk about people making a fuss, it they were all to do it the correct way the traffic would run better.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Yes Kev that what we are saying.we are also wondering how many merge or merge in turn, road signs we can find in the uk.A303 has been mentioned, plus Bournemouth.Any more.Plus are they compulsory or advisory.

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Only one I can think of with signs, M62 into Halifax.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.6...4!1somqL1fjCWDG5oc_Bg3MgDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Saw several yesterday when hading into Norwich on the A140 (after the junction with the A47)


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

I have seen the zipper system work very well when it is advertised/signed properly.

Truck block stops the queue jumpers and aids flows in long run

Ian


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

One problem is where the 'Merge' should occur.

I came across a situation this summer on the A16 Autoroute entering France from Belgium where the carriageway had been reduced from the two lanes to one. Being an Auroroute the trucks could not use the outer lane and were backed up for about 1/2 kilometre. So where should a merge have occured? If a the start of the truck queue I think most cars would not have complied.

However, if cars used the outer lane to get to the single-lane section then at that point when a truck starts to move in the inner lane, with its slowere acceleration and gear changing it is possible for a car, or even a MH, to occupy the space between 2 trucks without compromising the following trucks 'braking distance'. However I felt a bit sorry for the HGV drivers, especially since we were being turned off the Auroroute to a roundabout and straight back on for what was a security check point at some later stage, but none at the time.

So, under these conditions, what should be the rules/law/etiquette? If it would be OK for cars to use the outer lane, what about vans, MHs, Tuggers and 7.5 tonners?

Geoff


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

H


cabby said:


> Yes Kev that what we are saying.we are also wondering how many merge or merge in turn, road signs we can find in the uk.A303 has been mentioned, plus Bournemouth.Any more.Plus are they compulsory or advisory.
> 
> cabby


Definitely advisory at the moment. If an accident occurred as a result of someone not merging in turn, a careless driving offence could be considered, but there would have to be a direct link.

The A691 in to Durham city centre is the only local road I can think of with "Merge In Turn" signs.

Ken.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

icer said:


> Truck block stops the queue jumpers and aids flows in long run
> 
> Ian


Truck block stops are illegal (wilfully or unnecessary obstruction) which I hate to see from so called professional drivers, especially when they do it alongside Merge In Turn signs.

The queue jumpers are not jumping a queue, they are using an available stretch of Tarmac, which they are legally allowed to use. The Merge In Turn signs are put up by local authorities where motorists cannot think for themselves and see the disruption they are causing further back, so the decision is made to spell it out for them. Some motorists don't look much beyond their bonnets and are oblivious to the signs, so get wound up by the sensible drivers, when they try to merge.

It's a situation that is unlikely to occur, but when I have been on my many Advanced Driving courses, be it in the driving or passenger seat, I would mark down a student, or expect to be marked down for sitting in a queue of traffic while my old mother has the sense to drive past in an empty lane :wink2:


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> ........
> So, under these conditions, what should be the rules/law/etiquette? If it would be OK for cars to use the outer lane, what about vans, MHs, Tuggers and 7.5 tonners?
> 
> Geoff


Difficult one to answer Geoff, but I would imagine any vehicle that could legally use the outer lane would be OK,

Ken.


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Blizzard said:


> Truck block stops are illegal (wilfully or unnecessary obstruction) which I hate to see from so called professional drivers, especially when they do it alongside Merge In Turn signs.
> 
> It's a situation that is unlikely to occur, but when I have been on my many Advanced Driving courses, be it in the driving or passenger seat, I would mark down a student, or expect to be marked down for sitting in a queue of traffic while my old mother has the sense to drive past in an empty lane :wink2:


When I was a HGV driver I used to block the outside lane. I would see in front of me every in the single lane running smoothly into the roadworks when cars would speed past cutting in at the last minute. This would cause the car to break suddenly and a domino effect would occur and we would all end up stopped.

If everyone would merge in time before the roadworks and stick to the speed limit then none of the truck stops would be needed.

What is needed is not truck stops, not merge signs. But education and patience. This is the only way it will work.

As a matter of interest, you are an advanced driver, how far from the roadworks would you suggest you move into the single lane, or would you run right up till the end. Do you wait till another driver lets you in, and what if nobody will let you in?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Blizzard said:


> Truck block stops are illegal (wilfully or unnecessary obstruction) which I hate to see from so called professional drivers, especially when they do it alongside Merge In Turn signs.
> 
> The queue jumpers are not jumping a queue, they are using an available stretch of Tarmac, which they are legally allowed to use. The Merge In Turn signs are put up by local authorities where motorists cannot think for themselves and see the disruption they are causing further back, so the decision is made to spell it out for them. Some motorists don't look much beyond their bonnets and are oblivious to the signs, so get wound up by the sensible drivers, when they try to merge.
> 
> It's a situation that is unlikely to occur, but when I have been on my many Advanced Driving courses, be it in the driving or passenger seat, I would mark down a student, or expect to be marked down for sitting in a queue of traffic while my old mother has the sense to drive past in an empty lane :wink2:


Im glad you put that one to bed. Ridiculous manoeuvrer. Made even more annoying by probably the same truck then spending thirty minutes blocking a two lane carriageway trying to overtake another truck both doing 56mph with seven miles of traffic behind them.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Revise said:


> When I was a HGV driver I used to block the outside lane. I would see in front of me every in the single lane running smoothly into the roadworks when cars would speed past cutting in at the last minute. This would cause the car to break suddenly and a domino effect would occur and we would all end up stopped.
> 
> If everyone would merge in time before the roadworks and stick to the speed limit then none of the truck stops would be needed.
> 
> ...


Surely letting traffic go all the way to the cones before they merge has exactly the same effect as letting them go all the way to your truck bocking the outside lane? The only difference is that your observed domino effect in front of you is happening in your rear view mirrors :wink2:


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

siggie said:


> Surely letting traffic go all the way to the cones before they merge has exactly the same effect as letting them go all the way to your truck bocking the outside lane? The only difference is that your observed domino effect in front of you is happening in your rear view mirrors :wink2:


Yes it does have the same effect. So I am only doing what the cars are doing to me. If I let them drivers past me they are only doing the same thing to me.

Even though I did it I only done it in the last 200 yards.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Revise said:


> As a matter of interest, you are an advanced driver, how far from the roadworks would you suggest you move into the single lane, or would you run right up till the end. Do you wait till another driver lets you in, and what if nobody will let you in?


Pretty much to the taper point for merging. You are 100% correct that education is needed, use both lanes right up to the taper and merge in turn, which is one at a time from each lane. Doesn't get much simpler, but everyone has to stick to it for it to work.

I can't remember not being let in, especially in my work cars, but if ever it happened their education would come a little bit earlier.


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Blizzard said:


> Pretty much to the taper point for merging. You are 100% correct that education is needed, use both lanes right up to the taper and merge in turn, which is one at a time from each lane. Doesn't get much simpler, but everyone has to stick to it for it to work.
> 
> I can't remember not being let in, especially in my work cars, but if ever it happened their education would come a little bit earlier.


You cannot really win.

When I was on the wagons I was once pulled up by the police for blocking the outside lane. I was told it was not doing anything illegal, I was actually indicating and the wagon inside me would not let me in. That's what I told him anyway. But I was actually blocking the lane. But I always left my indicator on

Then on another occasion I went right to the end where you merge and was pulled up after the roadworks and was advised I should have merged a lot earlier and next time I would be charged with driving without due care and attention.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Revise said:


> You cannot really win.
> 
> When I was on the wagons I was once pulled up by the police for blocking the outside lane. I was told it was not doing anything illegal, I was actually indicating and the wagon inside me would not let me in. That's what I told him anyway. But I was actually blocking the lane. But I always left my indicator on
> 
> Then on another occasion I went right to the end where you merge and was pulled up after the roadworks and was advised I should have merged a lot earlier and next time I would be charged with driving without due care and attention.


Unfortunately the education goes both ways in that case !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Revise said:


> Yes it does have the same effect. *So I am only doing what the cars are doing to me*. If I let them drivers past me they are only doing the same thing to me.
> 
> Even though I did it I only done it in the last 200 yards.


Yes but the difference is the cars are perfectly within the law to come down that lane whereas you blocking it is illegal and flipping annoying to be honest.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

barryd said:


> Yes but the difference is the cars are perfectly within the law to come down that lane whereas you blocking it is illegal and flipping annoying to be honest.


......as well as plain ignorant!


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

barryd said:


> Yes but the difference is the cars are perfectly within the law to come down that lane whereas you blocking it is illegal and flipping annoying to be honest.


HGV's are also perfectly legal to also come down the outside lane, as well as the cars. What do you think would happen if all the wagons decided to come down the outside lane and acted the same as cars. It would make matters a lot worse for everyone.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Revise said:


> HGV's are also perfectly legal to also come down the outside lane, as well as the cars. What do you think would happen if all the wagons decided to come down the outside lane and acted the same as cars. It would make matters a lot worse for everyone.


I'm missing your point ! Unless other restrictions apply to the outside lane, then of course it's legal for HGVs to use the outside lane, but all way down to the taper point, where they can merge one at a time with everyone else.

What is being discussed here is the deliberate and illegal blocking of that free lane well in advance of the taper point.

Some get the zipper principle, some don't and I'm afraid that's the reason we'll likely be having these same discussions in 20 years time. Unless of course the "Merge In Turn" signs become enforceable, then it won't matter whether they get it or not, once it hits them in the pocket and 3 penalty points, they'll think twice before doing it again.


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## Revise (May 13, 2012)

Blizzard said:


> I'm missing your point ! Unless other restrictions apply to the outside lane, then of course it's legal for HGVs to use the outside lane, but all way down to the taper point, where they can merge one at a time with everyone else.
> 
> What is being discussed here is the deliberate and illegal blocking of that free lane well in advance of the taper point.
> 
> Some get the zipper principle, some don't and I'm afraid that's the reason we'll likely be having these same discussions in 20 years time. Unless of course the "Merge In Turn" signs become enforceable, then it won't matter whether they get it or not, once it hits them in the pocket and 3 penalty points, they'll think twice before doing it again.


I agree, the only way this will ever get sorted is if every driver. Car or HGV is educated to use the zipper method. Driving to the taper point is all well and good as long as people let you in. As we all know Peripheral vision suddenly occurs to a lot of the drivers on the inside. Personally, I think the merge point should be about 100 meters before lanes join as people tend to just dive in last minute.

The merge in signs should become compulsory. But even then the 3 points and a fine will not stop some drivers from getting that extra car length to be in front of you.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Rule 134 of the Highway Code says "You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed."

If a sign says "Merge in Turn" and a driver chooses to ignore it (including blocking) then he is not getting into the lane as directed. Although not complying with the Highway Code is not an offence in itself it can be used as evidence for prosecutions under the Traffic Acts such as for careless driving.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

And some will have to have "zipper method" explained to them   

Merge in turn with a diagram would be more useful, it should be enforceable by camera as in bus lanes.

Is it part of a driving test theses days I wonder, then no excuse for not knowing and it'd avoid at least some road rage incidents.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

Revise said:


> ......But even then the 3 points and a fine will not stop some drivers from getting that extra car length to be in front of you.


You're correct Revise, some people are just far too important to be held up for those extra few seconds.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Blizzard said:


> You're correct Revise, some people are just far too important to be held up for those extra few seconds.


Right now you have learned my status, move over > >


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Blizzard,

Bloking with merge in turn signs shown is not good. But, have you ever seen that and why would that happen? no point.

Have just completed 4.5Km trek accross 7 countries, lots and lots of roadworks going on.

Consider, roadworks ahead,, warning of lane closure, 500m 300m etc, people start to merge to allow smooth transition into 1 lane. 200 metres to go all is in order and flowing well. nothing in lane that is bloked 200m up the road. 1 then 5 cars scoot up the outside. nothing illegal, but stupid, they try and squeeze in, people in lane that self filtered because it made sense dont want to let this person in. Bear in mind that there is no merge in turn sign, merely that the lane they have just traveled up past all the other vehicles has finished, it does not exist and they new this in advance .
End result is a log jam, because they attempted to get past some cars that were travelling in a congested lane, but one that was free flowing , that is until the forced merge takes place, end result is that it slows everything down.
Ian


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

icer said:


> Blizzard,
> 
> Bloking with merge in turn signs shown is not good. But, have you ever seen that and why would that happen? no point.
> 
> ...


But you could also take the view that if they used both lanes while available it would also be free flowing, it's those who don't let people in at the front of the queue who are the problem, the others are just using an empty lane.

I will always take the empty lane, only a bloody idiot with too much time on their hands wouldn't choose the quicker way, but good on those who do decide to sit in the full lane, more room for those with a brain cell to spare.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

icer said:


> Bloking with merge in turn signs shown is not good. But, have you ever seen that and why would that happen? no point.
> 
> Have just completed 4.5Km trek accross 7 countries, lots and lots of roadworks going on.
> 
> ...


Ian

Surely if 'Merge in turn' were in operation and used properly traffic would use both lanes to get to the point where the closed lane starts and merge there, so there would be no blocking, nor vehicles shooting up an empty lane, or am I missing something?

Geoff


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Geoff
Sorry it was a two point answer to Blizzard.
No not when merge in turn is in operation.

Kev,
Just the point, they haven,t got a brain cell to spare. they look at the hero that has charged to the front and wonder why he is frothing at the mouth and swearing at them because he was in the open lane and their lane was closed. But being an impatient fellow he will push and shove and swear more and eventually get in. End result he gets in , but because of argy bargy free flow is reduced.

still, motorhoming is very time comsuming, isn't it?

Ian


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well the answer is a simple one. Just let them in. Dont pull up to the bumper of the person in front and pretend not to see the person to the right of you in defiance. Just keep a couple of car lengths distance or drop back slowly as you approach the single lane, let the car on the right in, hopefully the person behind you does the same and all is well. You done a good deed and feel good instead of getting worked up over nothing.


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Good answer Bazz

Pass it forward is my motto

I do not personally block them out, but you will always have people in front of you who will, and you can see this from a vantage point in the cab.

I think that the zipper method is a really good idea and should be used more 

Ian


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Well the answer is a simple one. Just let them in. Dont pull up to the bumper of the person in front and pretend not to see the person to the right of you in defiance. Just keep a couple of car lengths distance or drop back slowly as you approach the single lane, let the car on the right in, hopefully the person behind you does the same and all is well. You done a good deed and feel good instead of getting worked up over nothing.


Barry

Fair enough advice on a MH forum when people are in their leisure time, but there may be drivers in the inside lane who have tight schedules imposed on them by their managers - our Tesco delivery schedules were timed to the minute at each drop. Some of those queue jumpers might also be in their leisure time.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Barry
> 
> Fair enough advice on a MH forum when people are in their leisure time, but there may be drivers in the inside lane who have tight schedules imposed on them by their managers - our Tesco delivery schedules were timed to the minute at each drop. Some of those queue jumpers might also be in their leisure time.
> 
> Geoff


Ah but Geoff there you go you see. You used the words Queue Jumper. People have to stop thinking about it as a queue. Its two lanes of traffic merging into one. Starting a queue a mile long with an empty outside lane is bonkers. Those on tight schedules and everyone else will get their faster if you just let a car or two in and the people behind you do the same.

It works everywhere else. The Brits seem obsessed with queuing.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

As Barfy says, all it needs is a bit of give and take, but some are so far up their own posteriors they can't see further than the bumper in front.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Ah but Geoff there you go you see. You used the words Queue Jumper. People have to stop thinking about it as a queue. Its two lanes of traffic merging into one. Starting a queue a mile long with an empty outside lane is bonkers. Those on tight schedules and everyone else will get their faster if you just let a car or two in and the people behind you do the same.
> 
> It works everywhere else. The Brits seem obsessed with queuing.


Barry

If you go back to my post 48 above I was talking about two lines of traffic and earlier I suggested the signs of the lane closure ahead should include the words 'Merge in Turn' in 600/400/200 metres. Then both lanes could be utilised and there there would not be a single lane 'queue' for anyone to 'jump', but to say it is not a queue is unrealistic - if the vehicles are waiting to pass the converge point what is it if it is not a queue, like bank or PO?

I personally do not expect to be able to ride up outside stationary traffic and push into some other vehicles braking distance under whatever circumstances. That is why I was advocating two lines of traffic where both lines are warned in advance that they are expected to merge, so there is no 'pushing in'.

Geoff


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

icer said:


> Blizzard,
> 
> Bloking with merge in turn signs shown is not good. But, have you ever seen that and why would that happen? no point.
> ..........
> Ian


I agree Ian, blocking with merge in turn signs is not good, but I would take it to the next stage and say that blocking without merge in turn signs is also not good, so to simplify it 'Blocking Is Not Good'. The zipper principle remains the same with or without signs.

Yes I have seen it and I don't know why it happens as the specific area I'm relating to is not somewhere I work and therefore I'm not able to ask the drivers (and it's not always lorry drivers).

Ken.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Last night I had to go onto the road I mentioned, and I as usula drove down what was an empty lane as in NO ONE in it at all, despite the queue being at least two hundred yards long, more than the length of the tunnel in this link, there are no sings at all btw, just a simple arrow on the road :roll:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8...4!1sVV1meC4D26uvmYje9etHzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 
a few tossers in vans decided it was their road, I gave them a none verbal indication of my feelings, eventually a 4x4 let us in, I gave him a different none verbal response, before I pulled in I did notice a quite a few cars & vans had followed me down that previously empty lane, so maybe I edjumacated a few.


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Kev

Did you show them your hero badge?

At the very least, the few who followed you found another brain cell

Ian

Where are they hiding those smiley things you put at the end?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You have to click the reply button to get the emoticons but I know the text to type for most of the common ones, it's visible when you quote or look at the email notifications.


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## scept1c (May 10, 2005)

What happened to the British love of queues, this zipper method is more like the Italian way, every man for himself.

As I see it, this would be a queue jumpers charter.

It's OK if people can merge well in advance of the road narrowing but the queue jumpers want to get to the front making it slower for everyone else because the queue has to slow to let these b****rs in.


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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2009)

scept1c said:


> It's OK if people can merge well in advance of the road narrowing but the queue jumpers want to get to the front making it slower for everyone else because the queue has to slow to let these b****rs in.


It's been done to death already, use both lanes right down to the taper point, keep both queues equal lengths, merge in turn then there is no way to jump the queues and no b****r has to be let in.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Welcome to the real world of aggression and self.

Ray.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

scept1c said:


> What happened to the British love of queues, this zipper method is more like the Italian way, every man for himself.
> 
> As I see it, this would be a queue jumpers charter.
> 
> It's OK if people can merge well in advance of the road narrowing but the queue jumpers want to get to the front making it slower for everyone else because the queue has to slow to let these b****rs in.


Sorry but merging earlier just moves the cones back to where they merge so no difference, just more lane wasted, you also need to consider what is happening further back up the queue, the one I've referred to twice now is just after a traffic island so using both lanes at least does relieve some traffic there.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

So I wonder what the "anti-zippers" think about the changes that were made a couple of years ago to the approaches and exits on two of the roundabouts on the A35 Dorchester ring-road? For those who don't know it, the ring road is single carriageway in both directions but big queues can build up at the two roundabouts for through traffic on the A35. Highways England therefore widened the approaches and exits so that an extra lane was created both ways on both sides of the roundabouts for through traffic starting about 200 yards before the roundabouts and finishing 200 yards after where the lanes merge into one.

So this means that double the volume of traffic can get across the roundabouts if both lanes are used. Despite all the signage showing what to do it is incredible how we still love to queue! Heading westbound yesterday at one of the roundabouts there was a lorry and about eight cars stationary in one of the two through lanes and not a single vehicle in the other lane! I sailed past the lot, straight across the roundabout and carried happily on my way with the lorry still stuck waiting. I presume the eight or so cars were all driven by "anti-zippers" who were cursing me under their breaths!


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

IF we are considering temporary roadworks, one solution would be to place cones in both lanes, forcing them to drive down the centre line for a few yards then directing them into the lane to be used :smile2:. This could be reinforced with signs saying "Use both lanes" for a short distance before "merge in turn" :wink2:.

I suffer with the opposite effect to this problem: I drive into Norwich using a "bus lane" which is only valid between 8am to 10am. At midday I hurtle (carefully) down the inside of queuing traffic who get upset with me :surprise:.

Whatever you do - stay safe. Gordon


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its all about education. As soon as people become aware that its the best thing to do and its acceptable they will do it (or maybe not  )

Trouble is many are simply unable to grasp how stupid it is to simply form a two mile queue and leave the other empty and cannot bear of course anyone doing otherwise. The other day I whizzed to the front of a long line of traffic at lights on the scooter and plonked myself at the front. I then whizzed off as soon as the lights changed far quicker than any car could so not holding anyone up. A few hundred yards up the road I stopped at a shop and the woman who I had pulled in front of actually pulled over to give me a mouthful of abuse for queue jumping "what F-ing right do you have etc etc". I just pished myself laughing of course and wandered off but WT actual F!


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Come uppance, a true story

About 18 years ago we decided to go into Gibralter, at the time the Spanish Gov was having a small hissy fit, and we joined a fairly long and slow queue, a few Captain Hero's thought this was not for them and shot up the outside.
When we got up further ahead we saw the machine gun fellow, on traffic duty, send them to the back of the queue via a side road.

Ian


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