# Confused by required drivers licence category



## 127894 (Sep 13, 2009)

Hi All,

We are currently looking at Fifth Wheelers having never owned anything before and I am just a tad confused by the whole licence thing. Now, as I passed my test AFTER 1997 I understand that I have to take an extra test to tow anything over 750kg. As I understand the rules on the DVLA website, I only need to take a B+E test, as long as my towing unit is 3,500kg and under. Is that correct?

We have our heart set on a Forest River Wildcat 30-LOFT and thats a 4,000kg unit. Will I get something 3,500kg and under that will be able to pull it? And if I do will it only require a B+E licence?

Thanks 

Chris


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Hi

Personaly although not answering your question but A 5th wheel is an articulated trailer and unit. would you not have to take the HGV old class one test, to have the limitation removed from your licence..sorry if im 'raining on your parade'. I know a showman that towed a 5th wheel (BBig one) with a volvo tractor unit and he had to hold the old HGV class one.


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Wow, there's a question!

The last time I asked about such licences, it was explained that the answer depended on where exactly the FIFTH wheel lay in the tow vehicle.

If the connection was ahead of the back axle of the tow vehicle, it was considered to be articulated. Remember the old Railway three-wheelers. And those introduced by electricity boards. Suddenly, HGV licences needed for artics.

If the connection was above or behind the back axle, well, that was the same as a car and caravan, so a car licence was fine.

The attachment on the tow vehicle I was intrigued by, was adjustable. It could slide to suit the driver and his licence.

Now then, having said all that, where are we nowadays? 

Going now!


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## marnaz (Jun 24, 2009)

Gosh...
I hope I dont start something of now Oooops Just threw it in as a comment
Didnt know about whare the table was located could mean so much....


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## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

With regards the B+E licenece, with out it you can tow a trailer upto 750Kg behind a vehicle upto 3500kgs,OR )and this is where it gets complicated) a combination of vehicle and trailer up to 3500Kgs where the laden trailer weighs less than the unladen towing vehicle.

once you take the test you are only restricted by the towing capacities of the vehicle you wish to drive.

it cost me about £500 for a three day course including the test about two years ago!


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## 127894 (Sep 13, 2009)

Due to the weight of the trailer and pickup combined, I have spoken to the DVLA and they have said I need to do a C category (7.5 tonner) then do the C + E. This will mean I can have a towing unit up to 7.5kg and no weight limit on the trailer.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Lankygit said:


> Due to the weight of the trailer and pickup combined, I have spoken to the DVLA and they have said I need to do a C category (7.5 tonner) then do the C + E. This will mean I can have a towing unit up to 7.5kg and no weight limit on the trailer.


Not trying to be pedantic but in the interests of correctness I think you mean 7,500 kg


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi the C1 is for up to 7500kg with a maximum train weight of 8250kg
With a C1+E you can drive up 7500kg with a maximum train weight of 12000kg 

The C licence is for over 7500kg,
With C+E you can drive over 7500kg and pull any weight off trailer.

Olley


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

olley said:


> Hi the C1 is for up to 7500kg with a maximum train weight of 8250kg
> With a C1+E you can drive up 7500kg with a maximum train weight of 12000kg
> 
> The C licence is for over 7500kg,
> ...


Sorry Olley

C1 is only for a 7,500 kg vehicle - no trailer rights (trailers are category E) - C1E (with a category restriction 107) is a vehicle up to 7,500 kg vehicle with a trailer making the combination weight of up to 8,250 kg, whereas a full C1E (no category restriction) allows a combination weight up to 12,000 kg.

Edit:
 Apologies - I've just looked at the legislation and a C1 allows you to drive up to a 7,500 kg vehicle + a trailer up to 750 kg  Must check facts and engage brain before (virtually) opening gob.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Lankygit.

DON'T DO IT....... !!!!!

There are a multitude of reasons why there are only a handful of fivers in the UK and hundreds of thousands of motorhomes.

Apart from the license aspect, the turning circle needed to reverse, the gutless tugs, parking brakes, etc. etc.

Ray.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

sprokit said:


> olley said:
> 
> 
> > Hi the C1 is for up to 7500kg with a maximum train weight of 8250kg
> ...


Hi Sprokit with a C1 licence you can drive up to 7500kg and at that weight pull a 750kg trailer which gives a maximum train weight of 8250kg, which is what I said, so I am a bit confused about your post?

This from the DVLA website:

C1 licence _ Vehicles weighing between 3,500 kg and 7,500 kg, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg

C1+E As category C1 but with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can't weigh more than 12,000 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can't weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle _

Olley


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> Hi Sprokit with a C1 licence you can drive up to 7500kg and at that weight pull a 750kg trailer which gives a maximum train weight of 8250kg, which is what I said, so I am a bit confused about your post?


Hi Olley

Check back to my original mail - I got it wrong - since edited - sorry mate, must think before typing.  

Keith (Sprokit)


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Keith no problem, makes a change for me to be right according to the missus. :lol:

While your on, how about this, its true.

Brother is a Mot tester in Ipswich, they had a salon kit car in for MOT without a windscreen last week, him and the other testers had a confab as to whether they should fail it for that reason, as it isn't a failure category on the MOT computor, they phoned VOSA who said fail it, but under what category? my brother asked the tester who phoned them, don't know he said, they just said "fail it", so they did, and this the truth, they failed it because the wipers didn't work. 

What's your opinion?

Olley


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

DiscoDave said:


> With regards the B+E licenece, with out it you can tow a trailer upto 750Kg behind a vehicle upto 3500kgs,OR )and this is where it gets complicated) a combination of vehicle and trailer up to 3500Kgs where the laden trailer weighs less than the unladen towing vehicle.


Realise this is OT for the thread about 5th wheelers, but to clarify the above : B+E allows you to have 3500kg + any legal trailer (so weight of towing vehicle, if within maximum train weight?) behind it. The quoted text above is what you can drive with a "B" (without "+E")...realise this was what Dave intended but on a first read I thought he was describing what he thought B+E gave you....so just in case anyone else mis-reads, to be clear, from the DVLA website :

B - Motor vehicle with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg _or_ Motor vehicle with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can't weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can't weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle.

B+E - As category B but with a heavier trailer that isn't covered in the descriptions for category B

Example of category B with a trailer weighing over 750 kg: Motor vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,500 kg and a maximum weight of 2,000 kg towing a fully loaded trailer with a weight of 1,500 kg - total weight 3500 kg.

Example of category B+E: Motor vehicle with a MAM up to 3,500 kg towing a trailer of any weight over 750 kg.


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## 127894 (Sep 13, 2009)

Right then, super confused now!

The trailer I am looking at is 5,000kg and the tow will be a GMC Sierra 2500 (2010 model - cant find weight of this one). So what licence will that require?


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Lankygit, see here for spec's http://www.carsdirect.com/research/specs?cat=6&make=GM&modelid=319&acode=USB90GMT201B0&year=2009

It appears to have a max train weight of 16,000lbs, the truck depending on spec weighs approx. between 5100-6100lbs, if your trailer is 5,000kg's (11,000lbs) is it man enough? or am I reading it wrong?

The Dodge ram in contrast goes to 19,000lbs, which may explain why it appears to be the vehicle of choice for 5ver's.
http://www.carsdirect.com/research/specs?cat=6&make=DD&modelid=72&acode=USB90DOT131A0&year=2009

Olley


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

olley said:


> Hi Keith no problem, makes a change for me to be right according to the missus. :lol:
> 
> While your on, how about this, its true.
> 
> ...


Hi Olley

I know this is "off topic" but had to wait for "spanners" to get to work this morning to answer your question.

It appears that if the vehicle is designed to be without a windscreen, there's no problem, if however a windscreen would normally be fitted, then the wipers must be able to clear the 'drivers field of view' - there is no mention in the manual of failing a vehicle because the wipers don't work, only being unable to clear the screen (for whatever reason).

Ergo - if the vehicle does not have, and was never intended to have a windscreen, it will not (should not) have wipers and cannot be failed for wipers not working.

One wag reckoned it would be failed if there were no waterproofs for the driver, or a rag to wipe his goggles. 8O

Keith (Sprokit)


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi keith thanks for the reply, his understanding seems to be inline with yours, no screen fitted from new, then it doesn't require one. 

What upset him was that their is no category on the computer to fail a car for not having a screen, so as its the computer they go by, he felt it should have been passed. I don't believe their is an option to manually enter a reason for failure.

He didn't actually do the MOT, if he had VOSA would have had to have come up with a lot more than just "Fail it" :lol: 

I will mention the bit about the waterproofs and googles. :lol:

Olley


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