# Using MH in Spain for extended stay over 12months mot etc?



## richyc (Feb 14, 2008)

I f i want to use the MH for over a year in Spain do I need to register the van in spain? I dont want to bring the van back to UK for mot etc.Any advice please? Also would need insurance over there and can only get green card for max 6months :-/


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes, register in Spain to do what you want to do, but that is not simple. This has been discussed here many times. I will see if I can find a link for you, Alan.


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Using MH in Spain for extended stay over 12months mot etc?*

By law if the van is here more than 183 days in one 12 mth period it should be re registered here in Spain
You would have to go back to UK for a legal MOT
There are companys in Spain that will insure you and dont want to see the mot cert ,not sure how you go on if any thing happens a very debatable area I would think its illegal.
There are some heavy post here on this subject under Spain and Portugal banner. 
Brian


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Here is a thread which deals with being away from the UK long term and the tax and MOT implications for a UK registered vehicle: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-112729-.html

I think it's impossible to do what you want to do and be legal unless you re-register your vehicle in Spain. I am not sure how easy that would be. I have considered it but as far as I could find out there is tax payable based on the value of the van. That would make it an expensive option for us, Alan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I found this on an expat site, lots of these sites publish stuff which is not entirely accurate (just like on here) but it won't be far away. The process may be costly but this bit puts me off, " You must obtain a certificate of non-residence from your home country." Add to that a tax of between 7 and 12% of the value of the vehicle. 


Here is what I found:

Importation of your car

The procedures relating to imports of cars into Spain are complex.

If you are Spanish resident importing a vehicle into Spain, be aware that you must register it with the local authorities in the Spanish province where you are resident: the local provincial traffic department (Jefatura Provincial de Tráfico), this will grant you permission to drive your foreign plated car through the Spanish territory.

EU citizens moving to Spain to take up official residence may bring their own car with them exempted from import duties. If you are from outside European Union, you may get the exemption from Spain’s 10 per cent import duties, under the following conditions:

*

You must have owned your car for at least 6 months prior the import into Spain.
*

You must have paid VAT in your country of origin, otherwise this tax shall be paid in Spain.
*

A special registration tax (impuesto municipal sobre circulación de vehículos) must be paid in Spain. This tax is calculated on the vehicle’s current value (based on the original market price in Spain). The imported car that EU residents had owned for at least 6 months in Spain is not subject to this tax.
*

You must obtain a certificate of non-residence from your home country.

Once the importation procedure is completed, you will be issued a temporary registration plate, which enables you to drive your imported car in Spain.

Any concession on the duty-free import of cars applies only to people who take out an official residence permit in Spain.

These are only general guidelines, other questions applicable to your individual case should be directed to a Spanish Lawyer . You will also need the services of a Gestor because the procedure is very complicated . Even without the above tax break the cost will be of the order of 500 euros to 1000 euros .

Import Duties, IVA (16%), Car registration tax (12% or 7%).


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## richyc (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi and thanks all.Sounds like its a no go for me as im resident in England.I wonder how many people actually do go home though for mot etc? Many must wing it surely? Not for me though.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Whilst the following is not particular to Spain I am still interested in any comments on my post below on a previous thread, which at that time got no comments in support or denial of my interpretation, so I am trying again.

QUOTE (My previous post)

Because I have a very valid reason to resolve one of these issues, I have just re-read the DVLA advice about SORN.

While I agree with previous posters that one cannot SORN a vehicle if it is being permanently exported and one cannot legally drive it on the road if not taxed or SORNed, I cannot find anything prohibiting declaring a SORN for a vehicle which is in Europe and off the road.

Further, I went through the SORN on-line process (short of pressing the 'SORN Now' button) and there was no question about the location of the vehicle.

As far as driving back to the UK, DVLA state that it is illegal to drive a SORNed vehicle on the road, except to a pre-arranged MOT, with insurance. They do make any distinction on whether the 'road' is UK or otherwise.

It would appear that driving an untaxed UK vehicle, from off-road storage in Europe to a pre-arranged MOT in UK, is a UK legal exception, and that the vehicle is therefore legal in the UK, and therefore can be used in other EU countries, while driving to the pre-arranged test.

Dealing with Herr and Monsieur Plodd would need a copy of DVLA website, and a translation maybe? But that is the point of Erneyboy's question, what foreign law has one broken?

[Let us leave aside the question of the need to unSORN and re-tax before driving out of the MOT garage]

If I am wrong I am sure somebody will help me out, with chapter and verse please (not just an 'I think', while the coffee is brewing)

Or even better, can somebody confirm my interpretation?

Geoff

UNQUOTE

If anyone with a legal insight does not wish to go public on their views I would happily accept a no-attributable, E&OE reply by PM.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Geoff, it's likely no one answered because most of us are uncertain.

However if you ask the DVLA about SORN I believe they will tell you that a vehicle can only be SORN'ed while off the road in the UK.

As to driving to an MOT test my understanding has always been that the journey must be completed in one day, which rules out coming from Europe, Alan.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

erneboy said:


> Geoff, it's likely no one answered because most of us are uncertain.
> 
> However if you ask the DVLA about SORN I believe they will tell you that a vehicle can only be SORN'ed while off the road in the UK.
> 
> As to driving to an MOT test my understanding has always been that the journey must be completed in one day, which rules out coming from Europe, Alan.


From
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058



> SORN or vehicle tax due to expire while you're abroad
> 
> The vehicle must be in and remain in Great Britain to make a SORN. You can make a SORN up to two calendar months in advance. Fill in a V890 together with a letter explaining why you're applying so far in advance and post them to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1AR.
> 
> ...


The first sentence makes it quite clear that cannot SORN a vehicle that is abroad.

Edit - Correction


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Spain*

Quote....As far as driving back to the UK, DVLA state that it is illegal to drive a SORNed vehicle on the road, except to a pre-arranged MOT, with insurance. They do make any distinction on whether the 'road' is UK or otherwise.

It would appear that driving an untaxed UK vehicle, from off-road storage in Europe to a pre-arranged MOT in UK, is a UK legal exception, and that the vehicle is therefore legal in the UK, and therefore can be used in other EU countries, while driving to the pre-arranged test. ....end Quote

Its possible in Spain to pre-arranged MOT(ITV) appointment ,lots of expats do it when not here all year,but I would say if you live in Alicante and arrange a test in say Santander(1000Km) away and where stopped it wouldnt wash with the Guardia.

You say it would be* UK legal *to drive with a pre-arranged MOT ...yes in the UK but through Europe I would think Not.

Surely a car transporter would be cheaper than driving and an Easyjet cheapie.
My opinions
Brian


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Here is a legal opinion on whether or not there is a "same day" requirement for driving to an MOT test.

When is a private vehicle exempt from displaying a tax disc?
Private vehicles are exempt in exceptional circumstances which are:

Travelling to an approved MOT test centre for a pre-booked MOT. Pre-booked is where the time and date of the test is established in advance. It does not mean setting off 3 days in advance to a test centre on the other side of the country. If you are using this exemption, the reasonableness of the journey will be challenged.

Taken from here: http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/vehicle_tax.htm

So they say reasonableness is the key, does that rule out crossing Europe to come back to the UK? I think so, Alan.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Stanner,

Thanks your reply.

I know what the government website says, but their websites have been wrong before.

However governments often state what they think the 'is' or would like it to be but have been proved wrong on numerous occasions by the courts.

If the law is, and I cannot find the Statute, that a vehicle cannot be 'Sorn'ed when outside the UK, why does the Sorn declaration not contain a Q re location? Either the drafter of the website is wrong or the drafter of the Sorn form - which?

If the UK legislatiion does only permit a vehicle to be Sorned in the UK, how does that conform with EU law? I suspect that the EU answer would be that since it concerns UK tax law it is not a EU requirement.

Also, if I have a 'collection of parts bolted together' in a yard in Europe, but not being driven on any road, is it a 'vehicle'? [It was when it entered the country and was legal] And if so, by which State's laws definition?

If I have a 'collection of parts' off the road in an EU country, but which I have not Sorned under UK law, what law have I broken - in UK or elsewhere?

I think this all shows how the EU is disfunctional.

Constructor's certification of vehicles has been harmonised.

Aircraft construction and certification standards have been harmonised. Aircraft periodic inspections have been harmonised.

Vehicle inspection has NOT been harmonised.

Re-registration of vehicles has NOT been harmonised.

Integration or disintegration??

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

No doubt about it Geoff, the whole thing is a bloody mess and makes it practically impossible for an honest person to stay away from the UK in a vehicle of their own for more than 1 year once it reaches the age at which it requires an MOT, Alan.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Here is a legal opinion on whether or not there is a "same day" requirement for driving to an MOT test.
> 
> When is a private vehicle exempt from displaying a tax disc?
> Private vehicles are exempt in exceptional circumstances which are:
> ...


I agree it might be considered not to be 'reasonable' to take 3 days to cross the UK and pass many MOT Test Centres.

However, driving to a European port and crossing to Dover for a test might be construed differently in the light of two facts:-

1 DfT/VOSA will not authorise a non-UK inspection station for MOT.

2 DfT will not accept an inspection by a non-VOSA licensed tester.

Therefore it would be impossible to have a test before reaching Dover and I think the courts would consider this a reasonable excuse.

Geoff


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

Seems to me Geoff you are trying to convince yourself via others that to drive the car from Poland (I assume) with no Mot is OK.
I dont think its legal ---sorry Geoff 


Brian


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Brian

OK that is your 'opinion', but can you convince me what law I would break and in which country?

Geoff


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

Quote.. but can you convince me what law I would break and in which country? 

I think it would be a similar law as would apply to a foreign registered car in the UK and had no MOT(or eqivalent).If stopped and they said they where going home (abroad) to have the MOT and have an appointment ..how would the police know...they wouldnt. So technically they could be done for not having an MOT.
Some EU countries police are less tolerant than the UK. 

To actually convince you of which law in each country you are breaking is impossible for me ..you would need to be an International Lawyer to do that.
I go back to ...get it on a transporter... if the vehicle is really worth it.Would save a lot of hassle and worry.

Brian


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