# Acetone In Diesel



## Zimee (May 18, 2008)

Hey there all. I have been reading a few threads on additives and Biodiesel. I notice there has been a lot of talk of Acetone in the biodiesel. I am on a couple of LDV forums and there seem to be a few people on there mixing a little Acetone in their Diesel, and its giving better MPG. I was wondering if there is anyone on here that is doing the same thing and if you find its helping?

This is a quote from one of the threads on the LDV forum: "Have been using acetone for over 2 years now in a Turbo diesel Convoy with transit engine,the one with the fly by wire pump and no problems.Use only 30ml acetone to 70 litres of diesel"

There is also talk about adding a little 2 stroke oil to the diesel that helps keep the engine a little quieter. Anyone with a take on that one?

Thanks for your feedback

Zim


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Heating oil will also give you increased miles per pound. I think there is a legal dilution rate you can get away with. Memory thinks it was 9% but not sure . Can't vouch what it does for a modern diesel engine though.

Dick


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

The engines are designed to operate with fuel to EN590 spec, so why put anything else in? 30ml in 70 litres? Why bother?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

duxdeluxe said:


> The engines are designed to operate with fuel to EN590 spec, so why put anything else in? 30ml in 70 litres? Why bother?


9% would be over a gallon DD

Dick


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## Zimee (May 18, 2008)

duxdeluxe said:


> The engines are designed to operate with fuel to EN590 spec, so why put anything else in? 30ml in 70 litres? Why bother?


This is a discusion, if you dont have any usefull info then keep it to yourself. We are not idiots, we know how diesels work and what the manufacturer says but it doesnt hurt to discus the options out there. And some of us dont earn what others do, so an extra 5 miles a gallon is and extra 5 miles a gallon.

To the others that added their input, thanks and keep it up.

Zim


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Zimee said:


> so an extra 5 miles a gallon is and extra 5 miles a gallon.


Or not as the case maybe..............
http://www.fuelsaving.info/acetone.htm


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## jonse (Nov 2, 2008)

*deisel*

I read on another site about adding two stroke oil 1:200 or think 0.300litre to 70litre they said they had better economy and that It also helped clean the injectors, not being a boffin which i am sure there must be some one out there is who could also give more input to this interesting subject


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## Zimee (May 18, 2008)

*Re: deisel*



jonse said:


> I read on another site about adding two stroke oil 1:200 or think 0.300litre to 70litre they said they had better economy and that It also helped clean the injectors, not being a boffin which i am sure there must be some one out there is who could also give more input to this interesting subject


On the LDV site this is what was said:
"One of the best fuel additives i have come across is 2 stroke mixed with the diesel.I put approximatly 300ml to a tank full of deisel.What a difference.Engine queiter, more power.It does take about 2 tank fills to see a difference and you may need a fuel fillter change.And more economical.Sorry for bad spelling.Convoy with 2.5 ford engine camper conversion started,this has lods more room than transit,this is my first ldv allways had transits."

Zimee


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi,

Is Acetone in biodiesel acting as a cetane enhancer?

I put 2T oil in my 2.8 Ducato TD. 

My theory is that older engines, ie pre common rail, have complex pumps that expect to be lubricated by sulphur in the fuel. I think the 2T oil will act as a substitute for the now banned sulphur.

I now don't bother to use it in my Citroen 2ltr HDi and can't say I have noticed any difference in performance or noise when used in either.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I mix 2 stroke engine oil with diesel in my 2.8 JTD.

It is not necessary to use it with every tankful but I usually put 100 ml in each time. 300 ml is the recommended dose but only for about 1 top up in 3.

The advantage is supposed to come about because diesel has been altered and has less lubricating properties.

Whether this would be an advantage in the newer (07 onwards) engines, I do not know.

Mine is running very well now but I cannot tell if my mpg has improved as I have driven into headwinds a lot in the past 12 months. :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

747 said:


> The advantage is supposed to come about because diesel has been altered and has less lubricating properties.


Presumably engines have altered to keep pace, or vice versa.

With millions being invested in fuel and engine development, I'm inclined to think presume (and hope) they have got it right. :?

I would be very nervous about adding anything to a modern engine.

Dave


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Zimee said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> > The engines are designed to operate with fuel to EN590 spec, so why put anything else in? 30ml in 70 litres? Why bother?
> ...


Fuel quality is my job. Just because you don't agree with what I say doesn't make it wrong. And by the way, 30 ml acetone in 70 litres is not 9% or vice versa. What I am saying is that you don't need to use all these additives, in fact using them on a modern engine may well invalidate warranty.There isn't anything wrong with offering an opinion.

For 747, modern EN 590 fuel is ultra low sulphur which does tend to reduce the lubricity. However, there is up to 7% biofuels in pump diesel, which has excellent lubrication properties. If no biodiesel then a lubricity improver is mandated as it must meet a minimum standard. Hope that helps


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## Zimee (May 18, 2008)

duxdeluxe said:


> Zimee said:
> 
> 
> > duxdeluxe said:
> ...


Thats fine, then offer an opinion that actually says something not just slates the original question. Diesel engines originaly ran on peanut oil. I know people who still run their engines on old chip oil as well as sunflower, peanut, and rape seed oil. The issue I have is my LDV has a Lucas EPIC pump so I cant, untill I get it changed to a BOSCH pump then I can. I dont really care what modern diesels run on, I have an old engine and any help I get I do appreciate it. I like to think that maybe these threads might help someone out somewhere.

Zim


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

duxdeluxe said:


> Fuel quality is my job. Just because you don't agree with what I say doesn't make it wrong. And by the way, 30 ml acetone in 70 litres is not 9% or vice versa. What I am saying is that you don't need to use all these additives, in fact using them on a modern engine may well invalidate warranty.There isn't anything wrong with offering an opinion.
> 
> For 747, modern EN 590 fuel is ultra low sulphur which does tend to reduce the lubricity. However, there is up to 7% biofuels in pump diesel, which has excellent lubrication properties. If no biodiesel then a lubricity improver is mandated as it must meet a minimum standard. Hope that helps


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on diluting the diesel by up to 9% with something that costs half of the price (heating oil). This advice was given to me first hand by a garage owner who did it himself and is someone who I believe is hugely respectful of vehicles and engines.

I can't remember whether he said it was legal or undetectable. I think it was legal.

Never tried it myself but did fit a tap when I renewed the tank a couple of years ago. :wink:

Dick


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Zimee said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> > Zimee said:
> ...


Hi Zim,

Don't bite the head off someone who is only entering into a debate which you started.

What Duxdeluxe said was totally relevant and without a hint negativity.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*No*

Hi,
Answer from HM Rev n Cust

2.2 Can I use rebated heavy oils as fuel in a road vehicle?

No. It is illegal to use these oils (for example, gas oil or kerosene) as fuel in a road vehicle unless you get a licence from us to pay the difference between the full rate of duty on the fuel and the rebated rate actually paid on the fuel used. Section 6 explains how to do this.

So no not even 9%! all rebated fuels contain a "marker" and even a small amount will contaminate the fuel system and if you get checked and its found you will be prosicuted

Or so I am advised by my fuel supplier who supplies me with both Kero and red diesel

Regards Ray

ps the doc is as below

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...pertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000164#P33_1423


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Thanks Ray I knew the red "stained" but kero is pretty clear isn't it? Are you saying that there are tracers?

Dick (more curious than contemplating lawlessness  )


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*its in the doc*

hi,
Its all in the doc

3.2 Why are rebated heavy oils dyed and/or marked?

To assist identification by our officers if they are misused as fuel in road vehicles.

Ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Zimee said:


> I dont really care what modern diesels run on . . .


But those with modern diesels do care, and they have a perfect right to express their opinions.

Please do not be offensive to other members just because their responses do not suit your personal agenda. As you said earlier, _"This is a discussion."_ and other opinions are as valid as yours.

Please let's discuss amicably, eh!

Zebedee
(Moderator's hat on.)


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There was a recent case where a farmer, using red diesel in his tractor, used his tractor in the village for something else and has been successflly prosecuted for evading fuel duty and improper use of red diesel.


Sadly, at present I cannot find a link as my computer is playing up.......

but I think he was cutting the football field grass for them as their tractor had broken down (from memory)

so they are taking action against what they perceive to be breaches......

you have been warned!

Dave


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

i wouldnt bother with accetone as it seems theres nothing to support the theory other than a few male ego s ....

try one of these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Viabtor-F...364?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cb9b56bec

:lol: :lol:


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Penquin said:


> There was a recent case where a farmer, using red diesel in his tractor, used his tractor in the village for something else and has been successflly prosecuted for evading fuel duty and improper use of red diesel.
> 
> Sadly, at present I cannot find a link as my computer is playing up.......
> 
> ...


You are right Dave. There are few things as certain as death and taxes Dave 

Dick


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Off at a tangent I know.
We used to pur an egg cup full of Castrol R in our Petrol tanks.
Dont think there was any mechanical advantage but it smelt great.

I can remember when we had three gallond and three shots at a penny each. Upper cylinder lubricant "Redex".

Those were the days when men were men, you did your own maintenance and owned a socket set or at least an adjustable and hammer.

Steve


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I spoke recently to a chap with a 3 litre Fiat (Frankia tag axle, 1 year old). He said he bought it new, had used nothing other than biodiesel from a local supplier and had not had a bit of trouble. It was running very well.

Maybe that might answer Dave (Zeb) and others.

As for the Farmer who was prosecuted, I think that was all wrong. Unless the Law has changed, the only restriction for Farmers was that they could drive on public roads with red diesel as long as it was within a certain mileage of the farm. As far as I know, the purpose of the trip was not specified. Perhaps someone could tell me if I am wrong or not.

Thankyou and good night.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Glandwr said:


> I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on diluting the diesel by up to 9% with something that costs half of the price (heating oil). This advice was given to me first hand by a garage owner who did it himself and is someone who I believe is hugely respectful of vehicles and engines.
> 
> I can't remember whether he said it was legal or undetectable. I think it was legal.
> 
> ...


From an engine point of view it probably would not make much difference as it is pretty much the same stuff without any additives but I'm not sure if heating oil has a bio component providing the necessary lubricity - I need to check the specs more thoroughly but I am fairly sure that there isn't any as, similar to marine distillates it will deteriorate during storage if there is a significant bio component. I do know that the sulphur levels are higher than road fuels (we are talking parts per million here, not percentages). My only concern is the cetane number - it might not be high enough to suit modern common rail engines. From a legal point of view - no. Your choice!

One thing that we have done for years with our expired gasoil and kerosene samples left over after testing is to tip them into the office heating oil tank and to use that rather than dispose of it, declare and record each disposed sample (we have to do that anyway) and pay HMRC the VAT on the volume used.


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

pneumatician said:


> Off at a tangent I know.
> We used to pur an egg cup full of Castrol R in our Petrol tanks.
> Dont think there was any mechanical advantage but it smelt great.
> 
> ...


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

pneumatician said:


> Off at a tangent I know.
> We used to pur an egg cup full of Castrol R in our Petrol tanks.
> Dont think there was any mechanical advantage but it smelt great.
> 
> ...


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*This is a discusion*



Zimee said:


> duxdeluxe said:
> 
> 
> > The engines are designed to operate with fuel to EN590 spec, so why put anything else in? 30ml in 70 litres? Why bother?
> ...


In your words Zim,.....

"This is a discusion"

I thought the idea of mentioning the EN spec for the Diesel was a useful and valid point.

TM


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

2-stroke oil is quite expensive, does the increased MPG outweigh the cost of the oil?

My understanding of red diesel use on the public highway only allows farmers to travel between their own fields, and only using the vehicle for their own purposes, so the farmer traveling to cut the grass on someone else's land would be considered to be contracted out and not able to use red diesel on the public road to get to the job.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*a/f?*

When I was a boy putting Castrol R in my bikes fuel (for the smell and to lube my Dot n Greeves) My spanners were all Whitworth and most marked with the MOD symbol as were purchased from a yard in Sale Cheshire that sold ex gov surplus - eh them were the days
Ray


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Bill_H said:


> 2-stroke oil is quite expensive, does the increased MPG outweigh the cost of the oil?
> 
> My understanding of red diesel use on the public highway only allows farmers to travel between their own fields, and only using the vehicle for their own purposes, so the farmer traveling to cut the grass on someone else's land would be considered to be contracted out and not able to use red diesel on the public road to get to the job.


Hi Bill,

Thanks for clearing up the Farmer issue.

As regards 2 stroke oil, it is the cheapest semi synthetic which is used. Fully synthetic would be a waste of money. There are claims of quieter and smoother running engines with increased mpg. I keep track of my mileage and fuel usage. I did a quick check of my average mpg for 2011 and it comes out at 22.8 mpg. I have a 5 tonne MAM tag axle van and I aqm fairly pleased with the figures as I said earlier, I have had headwinds a lot and 2011 was generally a very windy year (you tend to notice these things when you use a wind generator :lol: ).

There are probably a number of oils that would be suitable. Some people change their engine oil and put it in the fuel tank. It seems to do no harm to older diesel engines.

When I were a lad, I regularly used Compressor oil in my old bangers (Austin A40, as an example). It was a 30W grade lubricating oil. If I was still working, that is probably be what I would use. It would be free.


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