# tyres and nitro



## kevanna1959 (Apr 5, 2010)

does anyone have any experience of putting nitro in their m/h tyres any thoughts or advice would be welcome thanks anna


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

How much do they want to charge for an extra 22%


This is composition of air in percent by volume, at sea level at 15°C and 101325 Pa.
Nitrogen -- N2 -- 78.084%

Oxygen -- O2 -- 20.9476%

Argon -- Ar -- 0.934%

Carbon Dioxide -- CO2 -- 0.0314%

Neon -- Ne -- 0.001818%

Methane -- CH4 -- 0.0002%

tony


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## kevanna1959 (Apr 5, 2010)

toooooo teck for me I just wondered if anyone had tried it before and if it was worth bothering with we seem to loose afew pound in the tyres now and again and someone said this may help, we travel abroad in the summer and have been told to let some air out of the tyres to compensate for the hot weather.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

taken from an article online

"Is Nitrogen Worth It? 
The air we breathe is made up of 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and a few other elements. To get the desired benefits for tires, nitrogen needs to be at least 93 percent pure, according to nitrogen service equipment providers quoted on Tirerack.com. So we're basically talking about adding an extra 15 percent of nitrogen and getting rid of as much oxygen as possible.

Based on cost, convenience and actual performance benefit, we don't think nitrogen is worth it. A much better use of your money would be to buy a good tire-pressure gauge and check your tires frequently. This is a good idea even if you have a tire-pressure monitoring system in your vehicle. The warning lights aren't required to come on until you have less than 25 percent of the recommended tire pressure. Having the correct tire pressure will get you many of the benefits of using nitrogen and will ensure that your tires last longer."

simple answer - don't bother paying the extra


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Oxygen molecules are smaller than nitrogen, so if you have a very steady loss of pressure it's most likely the oxygen molecules diffusing through the tyre wall.

After a few top-ups therefore, the percentage of Nitrogen would have increased, and it wouldn't take long to reach the 93% quoted earlier.

So there's no need to pay for it. Nature is doing it for you - for nowt! :wink:  

Dave


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You would be wasting your money following that course of action, it has been discussed on here before and there were some very sensible replies showing clearly that it was a waste of money.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-853359.html#853359

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1084261.html#1084261

and there are many more if you enter +nitrogen +tyres into the search box.....

Use your finger there and save it from pressing the keys for your debit card....

Dave


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## tyreman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

Total waste of money unless your driving a Formua 1 camper van !!!


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Nitrogen was put in my last set of tyres as a gesture. Tyres seemed to keep their pressure longer but have no facts to back up that perception. I expect there will be too many variables for me to make a factual assessment. 

I wouldn't pay to put it in.


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

Well! You learn something new everyday on here! I thought this was one of those wind ups like fitting a noxious gas detector. I've never heard of using anything but air before in tyres.

Things like this always make me think of the first person who thought of this and discussed it with his mate. 

"You did what?"

"I put Nitrogen in my tyres instead of air".

" What for?"

" I have an idea that the molecules are bigger so the tyre won't deflate as much"

"Yeah, whatever! Did you see that blonde bird in that bus stop when we drove past?" 

:lol:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Someone will always come up with a new practical demonstration of that age old saying...


A fool and his money are soon parted :lol: :lol:


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## Philippft (Feb 16, 2008)

A complete and utter waste of time and money. The reason behind Nitrogen in tyres comes from the aircraft industry. It was found that at very high altitudes the water vapor in the compressed air was turning to ice and causing a potential hazard, so compressed air was replaced with Nitrogen.
The Formula one car's picked up on it and found there was some benefits when cars were travelling at high speed.

The rest is just marketing.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

Hold on a minute.......... Oxygen molecules smaller and escape whereas nitrogen molecules don't???

Merde de Vache in my opinion - 

Molecular weight Oxygen -16
Molecular weight Nitrogen -14

Unless I have missed something, the oxygen molecule is bigger than the nitrogen one. And both of them go around in pairs O2 and N2 so no difference there.....

Happy to be proven wrong.....


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

duxdeluxe said:


> Happy to be proven wrong.....


In that case it is my great pleasure to make you happy! :lol: :lol:

It is often mistakenly assumed that "molecular size" correlates directly with "molecular weight". O2 does have a greater
molecular weight [32] than N2 [28], but O2 is actually smaller in size. Thus, O2 fits through the relatively tight passage
ways between polymer chains in the rubber more easily than does N2. The difference is size between O2 and N2 is
very small, only about 0.3 times 10 to the -10th meters (0.00000000003 meters).

Taken from http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

0.3 times 10 to the -10th meters doesn't mean a lot to me, except that it ain't very big! 

Dave


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

I just knew it.......... Shot me down in flames and I'll now sulk for the rest of the week!

Seriously, thanks for the clarification - there had to be something.


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## ttcharlie (Nov 29, 2011)

The last time I installed nitrogen on a vehicle it ruined the tyres, or was that the standing starts..... :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

Unless you can remove all the air in your tyres before putting in pure nitrogen then your wasting your money

never mind the fact air is mostly made up of nitrogen

Waste of money


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

I think one of the chambers in my mountain bikes rear shock (air sprung) uses nitrogen instead of air, i think that's more to do with consistent temps, expansion and a lack of moisture than anything else. 

don't think i'd bother with the van tyres though.

Nitro in the thread title caught my attention that's what we run the 1/8 scale RC car engines on.


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## Landyman (Apr 3, 2010)

Unless you are flying an English Electric Lightning (or similar) at mach 2 and have 360psi in the tyres to cope with the high landing speeds you are wasting your 'hard earned'. 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Why not use helium and get some extra payload at the same time?

Only problem would be that your tyres would squeak going round corners.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*OFN*

I have an abundance of OFN (pure oxygen free Nitrogen).

But I use air.

TM


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> It is often mistakenly assumed that "molecular size" correlates directly with "molecular weight". O2 does have a greater
> molecular weight [32] than N2 [28], but O2 is actually smaller in size. Thus, O2 fits through the relatively tight passage
> ways between polymer chains in the rubber more easily than does N2. The difference is size between O2 and N2 is
> very small, only about 0.3 times 10 to the -10th meters (0.00000000003 meters).
> ...


In that case, and just for a bit of fun too try this (American) explanation of size from truly massive (like barryd's reputation and ego) to truly tiny (I dare not attribute anything about barryd to that description......  )

http://htwins.net/scale2/

it is accurate and good (the only thing it uses which is no longer current is the term Angstrom Unit)....

Enjoy, but it is easy to waste 30 minutes on that (as many teachers will vouchsafe from my school where I shared it with the science teachers for use with students of all ages........)

Instant lesson plan......(not really :lol: :lol: )

Dave


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

kevanna1959 said:


> ........ we travel abroad in the summer and have been told to let some air out of the tyres to compensate for the hot weather.


That's not a good idea either. Stick to proper tyre pressures.

JohnW


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Stanner said:


> Why not use helium and get some extra payload at the same time?
> Only problem would be that your tyres would squeak going round corners.


Very droll Stanner.

Like it! :lol:

Dave


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Wizzo said:


> kevanna1959 said:
> 
> 
> > ........ we travel abroad in the summer and have been told to let some air out of the tyres to compensate for the hot weather.
> ...


Once over the water, just re-check your tyres, you may find due to travelling in a hotter climate your tyre pressure has increased, if so, reduce to the correct pressure.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

steco1958 said:


> Once over the water, just re-check your tyres, you may find due to travelling in a hotter climate your tyre pressure has increased, if so, reduce to the correct pressure.


I'm sorry but that is not good advice. Tyre pressures should always be checked cold and the difference in ambient temperature is not going to make a heap of difference if at all.

Tyres naturally heat up whilst running and yes it does affect the tyre pressure BUT this is allowed for by the manufacturer.

JohnW


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Wizzo said:


> steco1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Once over the water, just re-check your tyres, you may find due to travelling in a hotter climate your tyre pressure has increased, if so, reduce to the correct pressure.
> ...


Exactly tyre pressures should always be checked when cold.

The only exception would be racing cars and then only at a specific "hot" temperature.


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## commuter (Jul 13, 2011)

costco fill tyres with nitro at no extra cost if anyone is a member and wants to try some .......but you might have to buy a set of tyres first??

8O


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Shouldn't the title of this thread be, _"Getting oxygen out of the tyres."_

Just a thought.

Dave :roll:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Shouldn't the title of this thread be, _"Getting oxygen out of the tyres."_
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Dave :roll:


No, we should use the G word (what gasses have you got in your tyes?).


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## inthezone (Oct 8, 2012)

*Nitrogen in tyres*

The main reason for putting nitrogen into racing tyres is to control the pressure growth, if you put air into tyres then it contains a mixture of gasses plus more importantly water vapour, once hot the water vapour expands and changes the pressures, this change is only small but most race tyres will be controlled to the nearest 0.1 PSI (yes they still use imperial units). for your info race tyres in the warming blankets are held at about 80 degrees C. therefore for road tyres that will probably not change temperature much from ambient it does not really matter but if you want to do it theres no reason not to but theres very little gain.
Hope this helps


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## biggsy216 (Jun 19, 2012)

*Nitrogen in tyres*

Haven't tried it in the van, but have had nitrogen in my last two sets of car tyres (couple of quid per tyre to fill them, I think). Have never had to top up tyre pressures for either set. Couldn't say that for air filled tyres. I am told that you need to evacuate air already in the tyres before inflating with nitrogen. Will definitely use nitrogen when my van tyres need replacing.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: Nitrogen in tyres*



biggsy216 said:


> I am told that you need to evacuate air already in the tyres before inflating with nitrogen.


I'd be interested to hear how they do that Biggsy???

It wouldn't be too difficult with the old fashioned tubed tyres, but with tubeless it would be a bit of a problem! :roll:

Dave


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

*Re: Nitrogen in tyres*



biggsy216 said:


> I am told that you need to evacuate air already in the tyres before inflating with nitrogen.


Out of idle curiosity.......

how can you evacuate the air from the tyre? If you attach a vacuum pump to the tyre and try to remove it surely the tyre will collapse and that would cause damage to the steel reinforcing inside the wall since it is not designed to go that way......

80% of what you would be removing would be nitrogen anyway, so you would probably only be taking out some of that mixture and replacing it with more nitrogen.......

AFAIK the only way that you could raise the contents to anything approaching 100% (and I do not think that you would ever get it to 100%) would be by either repeatedly replacing the contents with pure nitrogen or by flushing it through with an inlet and an exhaust operating at the same time at the same rate - once again an expensive procedure........

My interest is based on 45 years of using compressed gases including oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, ammonia, acetylene, chlorine and many others and having direct experience of trying to raise the concentration of gases in sealed containers.....

Dave


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## biggsy216 (Jun 19, 2012)

*Nitrogen in tyres*

My experience has been with fitting new tyres, so there has been no call to evacuate existing air. I guess it would have to be done at a tyre fitters on a lift.

Despite all of the science, Penguin, and with deep respect for your evident knowledge and experience, I can only say what I found on my car - the tyres did not lose pressure with nitrogen. Just a contribution to the debate - I cannot say why it was so.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: Nitrogen in tyres*



biggsy216 said:


> My experience has been with fitting new tyres, so there has been no call to evacuate existing air.


Hey up Biggsy! 8O

You fit the tyres to the rims and they contain air. Not much admittedly since it's at atmospheric pressure, but that still needs to be purged if the tyre is then to be filled with 100% nitrogen.

That's the bit I haven't caught onto yet! :roll:

Dave


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