# Downsizing to PVC



## max123 (May 9, 2005)

Hi All
Our motorhome is too big for us now the kids have decided they'd rather not come with us. We have decided to go for a panel van and the two we are very interested in are a Wildax and the new Trigano 665. 

The Tribby has a grill whereas the Wildax has an oven, my first query is to anyone who has done this before (downsized that is) will I miss the oven? I'm far from a "cook" but it's easy to chuck a ready meal into.

Secondly does anyone have any experience on downsizing so radically i.e. 7.35m to 5.99 ? We're also skiers and we're not too sure on the warmth, thermal insulation of either van. 

Thanks in advance

Steve & Helen


----------



## hiker (Jun 22, 2008)

Can't comment on either of those vans, but went for the larger fridge under the grill but no oven version when we bought the Murvi, with no regrets. Had a Nuevo before (& a Symbol before that) & seemed to only use the oven in the former to store bread in! Now use a Remoska when on hook-up to cook things which could have been done in an oven.


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

Started with a coachbuilt and downsized to a Tribute 650, but I found that a panel van was noisier from rattles, booming and road noise.
The setting up of sleeping arrangements, confined lounge space when bad weather prevents sitting outside, and the general necessity to squeeze past each other eventually tipped our favour back towards coachbuilt, though we decided not to have a luton this time round.

However it is important to realise that others would have different views, and in the end it has to come down to personal preference and priorities.

Though we liked the idea of a van small enough to commute in, park at a supermarket and negotiate country lanes we felt comfort, space, storage and ease of use on site were higher priorities.

There are plusses and minuses to both types, and it would be well to decide what you can do without, and what you would really miss.

Hope you enjoy whatever you decide to acquire.

O


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Here's an informative downsizing account:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-490846.html#490846

Dave


----------



## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

There are pros and cons. I love my panel van and would not want anything else. However, usage is important. A panel van is great when the weather is warm as you effectively live outside and use the van for sleeping and maybe watching the TV. However, if use of the van is mainly confined to holidaying in the Uk with its dismal weather then a larger van is preferable.

Do not think that a panel van is a realistic substiyute for a car; in my experience it isn't because parking and getting it into your drive does not lend itself to daily use. However, others might take a different view.

As for the oven - we would not be without it. Being able to chuck a ready meal into the oven or a pizza is an absolute godsend. 

You mention interest in Wildax and the Trigano Tribute. Have you looked at Devon Conversions?


----------



## max123 (May 9, 2005)

Thanks all for your comments

Gelathe - Yes we have checked out Devon conversions - they do the layout (Adria twin fixed bed) that we want but we have narrowed down the search to the Wildax and 665. Mind you Autocruise are bringing out a new PVC with a corner bed (Alto) for 2010 to be launched at the NEC show so will check this out also.

Helen


----------



## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Helen. In your search have you come across any panel vans built on a base vehicle other than Fiat? I'm finding it frustratingly difficult to find anything suitable but will not buy Fiat because of the gearbox issue discussed here and on other forums.


----------



## max123 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gelathae, the Wildax is based on a Citreon and do not know if this base vehicle suffers from the same problems as the Fiat. Hopefully someone on this Forum will know the answer to this.
Helen


----------



## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

The Fiat, Citroen and Peugeot are all the same vehicle known as the x250 series.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Get a Merc panel van then 

Dave


----------



## WildAx (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi Helen,
We have had no issues with the gearbox so far with the Citroen vans. Also I understand from a recent meeting we had with Fiat UK that the new Fiat vans now in production are also 'fixed'. They attributed the main problem down to a programming error in the gearbox manufacture that affected the ratios. They also said that it only affected certain batches produced not all vans.

I have to reverse all new vans we produce up the hill into the workshop and have not found any to suffer from any issues!

Hope that helps,
Duncan - WildAx Motorhomes


----------



## rolyk (Aug 24, 2007)

I don't think anyone who is contemplating a new panel van should let the reversing judder issue cloud their judgement. Sure, there have been problems but they do seem to be islolated. The big advantage that the X250 range has over all other makes is the internal volume which allows full sized high level cupboards which vastly increases the storage capacity. It also gives a much more spacious feel to the van.

Only Steve and Helen will know whether they will miss an oven! My wife would, I know.

As for the choice of vehicle I would much prefer the Wildax, but it's all down to personal choice. I sat in a Tribute last week at Shepton Mallet and wasn't impressed with the very high seating resulting in dangling legs! My 5'2" wife's legs were a good six inches from the floor.

Roly


----------



## 118763 (Dec 13, 2008)

WildAx said:


> Hi Helen,
> We have had no issues with the gearbox so far with the Citroen vans. Also I understand from a recent meeting we had with Fiat UK that the new Fiat vans now in production are also 'fixed'. They attributed the main problem down to a programming error in the gearbox manufacture that affected the ratios. They also said that it only affected certain batches produced not all vans.
> 
> I have to reverse all new vans we produce up the hill into the workshop and have not found any to suffer from any issues!
> ...


Duncan,

I have had a good look at your vans at various show and must say how impressed I am. Good luck to your company. You should do very well provided you don't get greedy with your prices!

The judder is important. maybe OK on new vans but it gets progressively worse as the mileage increases. Also, you get water ingress into the engine bay ( including electrics) even on brand new ones and there seems to be no real fix. The best ones seem to be DIY ones with additional drain tubes, PVC tape and silicone sealant. On a new van?

I have an X250, superb in most respects but wish I hadn't bought it.

Fiat gearbox fix seems to be first off change of engine and gearbox mounts - waste of time in my opinion followed by a change in reverse gear shaft and clutch. Candidly, I don't look forward to anyone stripping down and modding my nearly new gearbox. I'm worried about even more damage. Please, can I have a new redesigned gearbox, properly fitted, if such a thing yet exists.

These two fundamental design failings should have been ironed out by Fiat during their multi million Euro development programme. Also, a bit of honesty from Fiat about the problems wouldn't have gone amiss.

Bob


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

use double skillets don't miss oven

only have pvc - no car, manage fine with most car parks.

Yes its cramped and after 6 weeks with two medium sized dogs we both find it too small BUT we get everywhere with it and get +35mpg with the Renault TDi 140 engine. 

Mine doesn't have enough insulation for proper 4 season touring and if its very cold can't use underslung fresh water tank - that said we have been away for the last 3 years at new Year and last year encountered -8C at Oswestry.


----------



## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Been out to -4C in mine and it's a pop top!!

How about the Westfalia Ford Nugget offerings for something different?


----------



## MikeyB (Jun 20, 2005)

How about the Cavarno, Transit based and absolutely superb quality conversion. There was also a guy exhibiting at Shepton Mallet last weekend with a pair of PVCs, one was called a Pharoah. Super job. When I get home will post his details. One disadvantage with many conversions is that they build half the units across the sliding door. We have a Transit self-build and we really appreciate the open space feeling of sitting looking out of that huge doorway. Makes you really feel like you're part of the great outdoors. There's also the Transit based Autosleeper Duetto. Then again there are lots of bespoke manufacturers who will build to your spec. look in the back of MMM, Youngs and Middlesex are just 2 that spring to mind. Mike.


----------



## max123 (May 9, 2005)

Hi All
A big thanks to all of you for all your suggestions and advice.

To Frank and Doreen - looks like we'll be joining you with the double skillet as we've decided to go for a van with no oven.

Re the Wildax - I was really keen on this van on paper and through articles in Prac MH but unfortunately it didn't do it for for me when I viewed it at Shepton Mallett. 

If money was no object I would have ordered the Murvi Morello which was there, it was fantastic quality and some very clever and practical ideas, but at £50k it was a no brainer.

I did view the Pharoah, Cavarno, Westfalia, Auto cruise, Swift Mondial, Devon Conversions and Tribute, all had good points and bad points however as this is our 3rd van in 5 years compromises do have to be made. Therefore for us we picked what we liked aesthetically, and ticked nearly all the boxes only one it didn't being the oven and as I didn't pay £50k I can eat out more! 

So we went for the Tribute Trigano 665 Sport - it comes in dark metallic grey/blue and looks really sleek. I'm sure there'll be things that we have to adapt but as long as we have as much fun in it as the other two MH we've owned then we can't go wrong.

Can't wait till we pick it up have started planning our first trip already.

Helen & Steve


----------



## Tezmcd (Aug 3, 2009)

I saw PVC and jumped right in on the post - then I realised it wasnt the PVC I was thinking of - damned internet


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*PV*



DABurleigh said:


> Get a Merc panel van then
> 
> Dave


Have to agree, If you can find one within budget, far better off with the Merc.


----------



## kc10 (Jan 28, 2010)

Helen and Steve,

It's been 10 months since you said you were getting your Tribute so how is it? Do you like it? Build quality? We've just added this to our short list and we'd like to know what your thoughts are.

Cheers

Keith


----------



## wooly (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi, The Merc does it for us - Michael


----------



## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

We sized up - from a Bongo camper to an Autosleeper Symbol. I managed to create perfectly acceptable meals on two gas rings in the Bongo but really appreciate now having an oven. There are a lot of meals that just aren't possible without an oven. We also use it as a storage cupboard when not being used as an oven so it isn't 'wasted space' and it's surprising how quickly the van heats up when the oven is on. However, there are alternative cooking methods without it - we also have a "Dreampot", basically a slow cooker which uses no power after the initial boiling on the hob, and of course come the summer there is the BBQ.

We find that our panel van gives us the ability to go places that we couldn't or wouldn't go in a larger van and we have plenty of storage space too. Personally, having now had a van with an oven, I'd be very reluctant to do without it, especially for longer trips when hob top meals can get repetitive.

Mrs. D


----------



## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

*Downsizing*

Although our latest Van is the same size as the previous one its German.
This meant we got a two burner hob instead of a full blown kitchen Cooker. 
Would it make any difference ??

In the Autosleeper the oven was used as a vegetable store and I refused to cook inside if it was feasible to cook outdoors. I have an aversion to cooking inside the van because of condensation and smells. (anticipating comment).

So we cook outside using a Microwave, Bravoska and Grill. I enjoy this because for me its proper camping although still not as basic as when I was a Scouter. Wood Fires, twists and cocoa.

Steve


----------



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

**** said:


> Personally, having now had a van with an oven, I'd be very reluctant to do without it, especially for longer trips when hob top meals can get repetitive.


We're the same, Mrs. D. We have a Dometic oven / grill combined, and we do loads of meals in it, especially in the colder / wetter weather, when cooking outside on a BBQ isn't really an option.

Gerald


----------



## max123 (May 9, 2005)

hI Keith

The situation so far is thus:

We ordered a 665 at the Shepton Mallett show last September (12th) from a dealer who we have purchased from in the past and gave us a good deal. We were originally due for delivery after Christmas. We deposited our van with the dealer in October. When it came close to Christmas we spoke to the dealers and after some discussion felt it best to wait for a 10 plate (March delivery) as it was only an extra 2 month wait and the van would have a better resale value on a 10 plate. 

In all fairness to the dealer, compared to other dealers out there, we are not going to incur the 2.5% VAT increase and the van has increased in price by £3000k, mind you they have had and most probably sold our van on since Oct. 

Delivery is expected 31 March which more than likely means a pick up early April. I must admit we are both missing the van like mad and getting frustrated that we haven't yet got it, but we agreed to a 10 plate so will just have to lump it.

As far as living with the 665 we've been following and posting on the tribby forum which is a great source of information - give them a try.

Once it arrives (!) we will let you know how things are going.

Helen & Steve


----------



## kc10 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply. You're very patient. I think I'll have a new van before you as I am not good at waiting and we miss having a 'van too. 

We're off tomorrow to have a look at the Tribute. I'll let you know what I end up with. 

Good luck with yours. 

Keith.


----------



## Raine (May 10, 2005)

*downsizing*

Hi, we downsized from an autotrail scout, then autotrail cheyenne 24' an23'9 to a duetto 16' a very big downsize for us ( i could only get 3 pairs of shoes in lol). but and its a big we still had a full oven, grill and 2 hobs, shower toilet basin , missed our microwave tho. the only thing we missed was the room! and after getting a swivel for the passenger seat, and tv/dvd player, decided to let it go, (i think its the least we've spent on one!) and we are now looking at (well i would like a hymer u shaped lounge and big pull down bed) or a pilote same layout, hubby would like anything but! Oh well we shall see! But i digress, and have just remebered
GET A REMOSKA they are a mini oven that looks like a pressure cooker, lakeland sell them, i did a review on them on here a few years back, you can cook roasts, cakes or just heat food so that might be your answer! 
Hope that helps!


----------



## Hezbez (Feb 7, 2009)

We had a look at the East Neuk Fifer vans at the Glasgow show today.
A bit too small for us, but they are so ingenious in their designs and the quality of the fittings looks very good. 

It's amazing how they manage to fit so much in to a small space.

The slide out bathroom is quite quirky!


----------



## wetcamping (Feb 5, 2009)

*Adria Maxivan*

We have an Adria Maxivan Panel Van, it seems to be a good compromise between coach built space and panel van convenience. its 5.99m long, 2.05m wide, has a permenant bed and a "spare-bed" in the roof. Lots of storage under the bed for gear and fits into car parks.

We've camped out in it down to around -6C this winter and been warm and cosy (with an electric hookup running the heating) but do have to work to stop the auto frost valve dumping when it gets cold which can be a pain. Resorted to a fan heater under the bed pointing at the valve.


----------



## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

One thing to bear in mind is that the tanks and necessary pipework are underneath in most PVCs - not the best solution for colder climes


----------



## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

richardjames said:


> One thing to bear in mind is that the tanks and necessary pipework are underneath in most PVCs - not the best solution for colder climes


When it's cold during the winter months, our tip is to carry 5 litre or 10 litre of water in a bottle in the van for overnight/early morning cuppa. 
Drain down the waste tank before retiring and then leave the tap open, so that any waste water goes straight through and into a bucket. This way the tank or pipes don't freeze. :idea: 
Remember to close the tap in the morning mind! Before taking a shower etc.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

We set off four years ago to purchase a Tribby.
Came home with a cheyene 632. Fixed bed.
We will keep this until I cannot or feel unable to drive it.
Hopefully a good few years from now.

Best of luck with your purchase. £3k price hike  
Exchange rates I supose

Dave p


----------

