# SeaFrance - Problems, industrial action.....the inevitable?



## Carl_n_Flo

Good morning all,

As a part of one of my other 'interests', I monitor a number of ferry forums and recently the discussions have been revolving around the situation with seaFrance.

Currently, the MV Berlioz is strike=-bound in Calais:

_*From http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/Locales/Cala ... la-c.shtml and translated by Google.*_
Quote:
*The strike continues on "Berlioz," the company still in limbo*Tuesday, 18.10.2011, 05:10 - La Voix du Nord

_While the next ten days ahead crucial for the future of SeaFrance, ...The Berlioz was arrested again after rotations resumed at midday. The movement that began Thursday night is led by the ship's company, which intends to protest against disciplinary action taken by management against a foreman.

Yesterday at midday, the rotations of Berlioz resumed, as a token of good will. "We have four hours left to management to make us
proposals on this matter. The management response has not rained for marine Berlioz, who again stopped work until further notice.

"Tomorrow, an extraordinary works council in Paris. On the menu, access to elected representatives on the recovery plans of the company brought by SCOP on one side by DFDS on the other. The CFDT union majority will not go to this meeting, she says, is
"illegal" because not convened within the rules.

The CFDT, however this will be another extraordinary works council, scheduled for Thursday. On the occasion of the latter should be considered the applicability of the new industrial plan (NPI), as amended, carried by the current management of the company. An
NPI that has changed very little chance of being applied one day, trade unions, the majority or not, having indicated that they would not sign a project involving the removal of two hundred additional positions.

In this context, what is the decision of Europe? The commission must decide this week on the new industrial plan, and the possibility or not of a recapitalization by the SNCF. This weekend, Jacques Gounon, Eurotunnel's chief executive, has already indicated that if public support Seafrance is accepted, "it would be an unfair decision, legalizing a distortions of competition, and real aggression vis-à-vis the thousands of private sector employees of Channel market. "Finally, the Commercial Court will decide Tuesday, October 25. It will
probably decide between the SCOP project (for which Didier Cappelle of the CFDT claims
to have over 500 subscribers) and the DFDS._© La Voix du Nord

I really cannot see how this company can survive the next few weeks - let alone continue trading into the new year.

As Seafrance is in legal administration since 2010 the only one having a say in this story
is the judge in charge at the commercial court in Paris.

Oct. 25th is presentation day in Paris, judge will get final details on the 3 different possibilities:

1. liquidation
2. refinance by SNCF
3. take over by:
- Seafrance staff (scop)
- LDlines/DFDS
- BeingBang

Judge's decision can be expected by middle of November.

The upshot of all this could be a lot of upheaval at Calais, with other unions (mooring gangs, dock workers, check-in staff) all coming out on strike in sympathy with SeaFrance workers.

In addition, it is quite possible that the SeaFrance vessels could be used to blockade the berths at Calais and so prevent P&O ships from docking.

I will try to keep you all informed with information as I find it.

Regards
Carl


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## bognormike

thanks Carl.

obviously some things lost in the translation, but we get the general drift! As has been pointed out by the Eurotunnel (and P&O last year), any rescue with public money would be a contravention of EU law. 
They have been struggling for years, bail out after bail out - could this see the end of cheap crossings? If SF go down, or are taken over by DFDS / LD , there would be alot of rationalisation. As it is, I would be very wary about paying out for SF crossings for next year!


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## waz

We were waiting to board on Sunday when they went on strike. Had to be moved to another berth to board the next ferry. Done a stupid thing as well , locked the van with the keys in the ignition. Crew member to us down to the car deck and my mate managed to unlock it with a bent wire. Never a car thief around when you want one.

Waz


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## Carl_n_Flo

bognormike said:


> thanks Carl.
> 
> obviously some things lost in the translation, but we get the general drift! *As has been pointed out by the Eurotunnel *(and P&O last year), *any rescue with public money would be a contravention of EU law. *They have been struggling for years, bail out after bail out - could this see the end of cheap crossings? If SF go down, or are taken over by DFDS / LD , there would be alot of rationalisation. As it is, I would be very wary about paying out for SF crossings for next year!


Eurotunnel have to be careful how loudly they shout about that - they have had their debts 'written off' by both the UK and French governments for a number of years now.........it was found that if these debts had NOT been written down, Eurotunnel would NEVER be able to pay back the colosal cost of the construction.

The ferry companies have been complaining about the 'unfair' trading advantage that Eurotunnel has for quite a while now, which is why, in the main, ferry prices are cheaper than tunnel - to attract custom (to the, perceived, slower means of crossing).

Carl


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## rugbyken

gotta say thank's for the information BUT there i was winding down starting to get excited booked on the 3 pm S F ferry friday ready for 3 weeks in france or spain and i read this now going to spend the next 2 1/2 days in a panic/dont panic mode,
seriously thank's for the head's up will try there company webpage, & hope


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## Carl_n_Flo

Sorry Ken - didnt mean to put you to any worry.

It is just that not much has been said on here about the situation at SF, but a fair amount has been going on and the 'decision date' is very close now.

I think it is fair to assume that SF will not continue in its present form after the EU court ruling. If DFDS/LD LInes buys them, then strikes and grief from the French unions is almost guaranteed. 'Being Bang'? No-one knows anything about them. The Union bid to run the company is a joke - they are banking on the French government writing off the debts AND stumping up untold millions to allow them to keep ALL the ships and ALL the staff.

They just cannot see that this wastefulness has been a massive factor in SF going bust.

Thats the French unions for you - 'I'm all right Jack' attitude.....

Carl

PS - Sorry Ken, forgot to say...........I think you will be OK to travel out Friday (lightning stoppages willing)........and do you really want to come back???? :lol:


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## Carl_n_Flo

Good morning all - update from 'Ferries of Northern Europe' discussion forum:

_The Figaro language makes translation difficult but essentially this is a rejection of the Seafrance plan on 2 grounds. Firstly the commission says that the company's long term viability is doubtful. Secondly at least half the cash injection needed to come from a private enterprise and despite protestations, SNCF is not considered a private enterprise. On the assumption that this is true then the commercial court has no option but to move to sale or liquidation since the restructuring plan becomes non-viable. Thus by weekend it seems possible that there will begging a liquidation sale of Seafrance.

Let's wait for further reports and the commission decision to see exactly what the result is but if the Figaro is right this is not for Seafrance. _

More as I get it................
Carl


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## dilly

Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .


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## teemyob

*DFDS*



dilly said:


> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .


Because that is the way I feel regarding DFDS!


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## Carl_n_Flo

*UPDATE*

From _Ferries of Northern Europe_:

_It would appear that Brussels are giving Seafrance an extension until Monday to come up with some alternative funding.

The EU will deliver there final verdict on Wednesday.

Further information from La Figaro http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/20...482-seafrance-bruxelles-accorde-un-sursis.php_

As I understand it, Brussels are unconvinced by ANY of the proposed bids from rivals. They have given SF until monday to come up with nigh-on E100million to finance the business - from 'an independent investor' (not SNCF - the parent company).

This, to me, seems highly unlikely to happen - unless the French government can pull 'a fast one' and channel state funds secretly, in contrevention of EU rules.

It has happened before.................

If this doesnt happen, and Brussels doesnt change its mind about the take-over bids, then come next week, SeaFrance will be no more.

Carl


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## dilly

*Re: DFDS*



teemyob said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .
> 
> 
> 
> Because that is the way I feel regarding DFDS!
Click to expand...

Yep me too


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## Carl_n_Flo

*Todays update...........*

OK - it's starting.........as sure as night follows day....

From the SeaFrance website:

*News and important information*
_Expected Industrial Action
Following a call for industrial action by one of our trade unions, we regret to inform you of the possibility that our services may be disrupted on Tuesday 25th October. Should you need to contact us, please call on 0871 22 22 500. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause._

The above is from the SeaFrance website. Note the 0871 number - premium rate. Perhaps it we all phone in and speak for a couple of hours we can help them raise the cash they need.

Sorry, Carl


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## bognormike

it's the only way they can make any money!


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## DTPCHEMICALS

dilly said:


> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .


Cleaner and quicker crossings,, by sea that is.

Dave p

edit

Louise at SF keeps sending me e mails re special rates etc.

BF do too

Dave p


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## greygit

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaner and quicker crossings,, by sea that is.
> 
> Dave p
> 
> edit
> 
> Louise at SF keeps sending me e mails re special rates etc.
> 
> BF do too
> 
> Dave p
Click to expand...

Also they don't charge for pets going out of the UK unlike P&O.
Gary


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## peejay

dilly said:


> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .


I've travelled on all the short sea crossings over the years and they are all about the same in my book, they are all in business to make as much profit as possible. I don't care who I travel with on this route as long as the price is right.
I've had good and bad experiences from them all.

It will be a sad day if Seafrance go down the tubes as it will reduce the competetition and can only lead to higher prices unless someone else takes over the route.

Pete


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## icer

We are booked on the P&O crossing 25/10 at 9.25AM 

There is a message on seafrance booking site that possible industrial action could take place, in fact they will not let anyone book that day. 

My question is, are the lovely fellows going to cause grief by blockading as is they have done in the past. 

there is very little info at all on the web concerning this strike. Most of it refers back to Karls message on here. 

Ian


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## dilly

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> dilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people travel by Seafrance ? :roll: do you never learn ? I dont care if they are the cheapest they are not getting my support/money , rant over .
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaner and quicker crossings,, by sea that is.
> 
> Dave p
> 
> edit
> 
> Louise at SF keeps sending me e mails re special rates etc.
> 
> BF do too
> 
> Dave p
Click to expand...

As I said price does not come into the equation for me, its about giving support to the UK workers on P&O ( as I live in the local area ) rather supporting those forever striking French bleep bleep bleep.


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## wilse

*Re: Todays update...........*



Carl_n_Flo said:


> Note the 0871 number - premium rate. Perhaps it we all phone in and speak for a couple of hours we can help them raise the cash they need.
> 
> Sorry, Carl


I found this if you don't fancy calling 0871 numbers?? 01304 828300

Number courtesy of http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php

w


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## Carl_n_Flo

*SeaFrance Update..........*

Well, all the SF ships are tied up in Calais as the crews are on strike today.

It seems both P&O and DFDS are coping with the situation.

No 'Operation Stack' so far........

From the 'This is Kent' website:

_FUTURE viability of SeaFrance ferry services between the Port of Dover and Calais has been questioned by the European Commission after it rejected the troubled company's financial rescue package.

A probe into the ongoing restructuring of the French firm was launched by EU authorities earlier this year and the investigation has now ruled that the deal, which sees funds provided by state-owned parent company SNCF, breaches European rules on state aid.

Doubts have been cast on the future of Dover-Calais ferry firm SeaFrance
.The Commission expressed concerns over market confidence in the viability of the operation and the firm's reliance on financial support from the state-run railway operator.

Workers at SeaFrance are currently on strike - forcing the cancellation of all sailings between Dover and Calais today - as the French commercial court in Paris prepares to decide the future of the business at a meeting in the capital at 2.30pm local time today.

Five coaches departed from Calais this morning taking staff to Paris to be present at the court hearing, where the company will either be liquidated or a takeover bid will be approved.

One port insider expressed incredulity at the fact that on the very day the future of the company is to be decided all sailings are cancelled.

He said: "The sad fact is that these days their carryings are so low that when they strike, the tunnel and other ferry companies can absorb the traffic in the blink of an eye.

"What is incredible is that on the very day the French court sits to consider whether there's a future for the company, guess what - SeaFrance is on strike again."_

Only two options remain: Take-over (most probably by DFDS/LD Lines) or liquidation..................we shall know very soon now.

Carl


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sad either way.

Dave p


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## Carl_n_Flo

UPDATE:

The French courts have delayed their decision until November 16th.

It is very unlikely that SeaFrance will/can be capitalised by anyone (with their track record on labour relations, who would risk it?) and there are a few 'problems' with the bid from DFDS/LDLines. The venture capitalists 'BeingBang' have withdrawn their offer.

It would appear that, unless the court agrees to the DFDS/LDLines offer, then liquidation on the 16th is the only option and a 'fire sale' of the assets will take place (ships mainly).

All SeaFrance ships are still tied up in Calais at the moment...........

Carl


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## bognormike

thanks Carl

looking bleak for SF - I doubt whether the ships are "owned" by them - probably finance leased. 
We don't know the details of the offers, but if DFDS get the deal, would they continue with Dover / Dunkerque?. And if LD lines, what happens to Newhaven - Dierppe? 
There is plainly over capacity in the cross channel trade, and the main 2 protagonists have been cutting prices to get business for years - prices will definitely rise.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Well the same procrastination appears to be happening with the save the euro campaign.

No quick decisions.

Dave p


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## Carl_n_Flo

Mike,

If SF do get wound up, then the existing capacity with P&O and DFDS is not sufficient - especially for freight - even with the two new P&O ships............evidence the backlog of freight waiting in Dover this morning to cross.

P&O are having operating problems themselves at the moment:

The Pride of Calais was supposed to have been replaced by now by the new Spirit of France, but P&O have refused to accept her as she has issues with severe vibration (as does Spirit of Britain) and so has not been delivered from Finland yet.

To compound that problem, the Pride of Calais impacted the berth at Calais at slightly too high a speed and damaged her bow - she is now only operating as a stern loader which is slowing things down somewhat.

P&O's only dedicated freight ferry (European Seaway) was sent to Tilbury for lay-up a few weeks ago..............and now that the SF Nord Pas de Calais is strike-bound (and in all probability unlikely to sail after Nov. 16th) there is a lack of space for 'hazardous' freight (which is why ferries have open truck decks at their stern - to accommodate 'hazardous' freight!!). It seems that P&O are expediting the return of the European Seaway in the next day or so..........probably in anticipation of SeaFrance being liquidated.

As for ships, SeaFrance DO own their ships.
If DFDS did take over, they have indicated they only want three of the four ships currently sailing (the Berlioz, the Rodin and the Nord Pas de Calais).
The NPdC would be transferred to the Dunkerque run with one of the Dunkerque ships moving to the Calais station. makes sense as more freight travels to Dunkerque.

As for prices - yes they may increase as there would be only two operators on the channel..........but if DFDS were NOT allowed to buy SF, then that would leave only ONE - P&O - and I am sure that they could NOT cope with all the traffic on offer..........especially in the summer months.....

Ship ownership is a funny and mysterious world...........they are 99% of the time owned by the operator..........the other 1% of the time is when they are chartered to another operator due to other factors such as insufficient need by the owner (for example the TEF owned Oleander - formerly Pride of Free Enterprise - was on the Ramsgate to Ostend route but has now been chartered to Comarit in the Med.........better use for the ship..........).

Lets hope that this mess is cleared up soon - and I do hope that members here who are booked with SF after 16th November manage to get a change of sailing or recompence some other way!!!

Cheers
Carl


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## peejay

Thanks for that Carl, a very informative thread even if if its for all the wrong reasons. Please keep the updates coming.

Pete


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## JockandRita

peejay said:


> Thanks for that Carl, a very informative thread even if if its for all the wrong reasons. Please keep the updates coming.
> 
> Pete


Hear hear. :thumbleft:

Regards,

Jock.


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## Stanner

Well SF are still sending out special offer emails and advertising their "new" priority boarding scheme.

There is also no mention whatsoever of any disruption etc. to services on their website.

Very strange. :?


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## selstrom

All Sea France ferries appear to be operating as shown on http://www.marinetraffic.com.


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## JockandRita

selstrom said:


> All Sea France ferries appear to be operating as shown on http://www.marinetraffic.com.


Hi Selestrom,

Your link doesn't appear to be working. There's a dot too many in the address. :wink: 
Is this the link? http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/

Cheers,

Jock.


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## bognormike

thanks for the update from our ferries correspondent!!


8)


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## waz

On the local meridian news tonight French union leader stated that DFDS would never dock in Calais./

Waz


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## Carl_n_Flo

UPDATE:

The effort to win the future of Seafrance through the court of public opinion before the commercial court continues. Now the CGT officers union has announced they have no confidence in the SCOP bid (the bid by the Unions to run the company themselves). They also have no desire to deal with DFDS. 

The next court decision is due this week (wednesday) as a further chapter unfolds. 

It is a choice between SCOP (unlikely), DFDS/LDLines (possible) or liquidation (humiliating for Sarkozi....)

Carl
MHF Ferry Correspondent....... :lol:


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## bognormike

thanks Karl - I was only thinking yestrday that nothing seemed to have happened since the strike.


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## andrewball1000

Thanks Carl, I am watching this closely as my SF carnet has two returns left to run!


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## Carl_n_Flo

Sorry folks - SeaFrance are back on strike this morning....

All their ships are laid up in Calais.

The joke doing the rounds on the ferry forums is that, if the Unions dont get their way, then they will sink one of the ferries to blockade the port.

I dont think it will come to this.................................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I hope :roll: 
Carl


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## dilly

Surprise, Surprise :roll:


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## Carl_n_Flo

*PRESS RELEASE FROM SEAFRANCE....*

*UPDATE*

*PRESS RELEASE FROM SEAFRANCE*

_SeaFrance

Urgent information

We are approaching November 16th, the date when the decision of the Court of commerce will dictate the future of the Company, the Board of SeaFrance, and the Receivers have decided, in liaison with the French National Authorities, to suspend the ship operations on the 15th of November at 04 00 hours.

We have taken this decision, with full knowledge of the consequences, to safeguard the security of the passengers, crews, vehicles and ships. We are conscious of the inconvenience this situation is causing and we apologise for this. We will keep you informed of any changes in the present situation.

Should you need any further information, Please contact us on +44 (0) 845 458 0666 to speak to a member of staff._

Comment:
This does not surprise me in the least! I would imagine that the Management have sent all the crews home and left the ships empty in the hope that the more militant members will not / can not gain access to cause damage to them.

Carl


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## Zebedee

Hi Carl

Your earlier warnings ensured that we would not even think of using SeaFrance again until (and unless) the situation had stabilised. 8O 

Vital information, and very much appreciated by me, and all our members I'm sure.

Many thanks.

Dave


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## Carl_n_Flo

Also to advise............ 

The SeaFrance booking engine no longer works - the website is only showing the press release. 

All passengers booked with SeaFrance over the next day or so out of Dover are advised to turn up at Dover as usual as they are being transported by DFDS to Dunkerque (ironic!!!!). 

Passengers due to travel from Calais are advised to make their way direct to Dunkerque where their tickets will be valid on the DFDS services to Dover. 

Further info after tomorrows court session I guess.... 
Carl


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## Uller

I mentioned this on the sticky, but thought I would copy here too.

We turned up at Dover this morning, completely unaware of what was going on with SeaFrance. We were not offered a crossing with DFDS - in fact, we were told we would get a refund with SeaFrance (unlikely in the situation!) and would need to rebook with another company. DFDS told me they had no space for high vehicles until Saturday, although that might be just be to Calais.

Either way, we were not offered a crossing to Dunkerque. Maybe you have to ask for it?


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## bognormike

here's the latest BBC report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15738181


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## greygit

bognormike said:


> here's the latest BBC report
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15738181


I would be sad to see their demise as we use always use them on the outward journey as they don't charge for pets, unlike P£O.
Gary


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## trek

Picked out this from the BBC report :-

She added: "The court has declared the company bankrupt, although operations can continue until 28 January 2012.

"The court, however, provides an opportunity to submit revised bids before 12 December 2011. 



& from the seafrance website at 1700 16/11/2011

SeaFrance


Urgent information



The Tribunal has decided today that the company will be put into full administration but with the continuation of the business. 



This decision has set a new deadline of 12th December for the receipt of new offers.
Later today we will confirm the date and time of resumption of schedule services on the Dover Calais route. 



Should you need any further information, Please contact us on +44 (0) 845 458 0666 to speak to a member of staff.


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## Carl_n_Flo

*For the latest information on the SeaFrance situation, updates are being posted here:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-116716.html*

(mods - as the OP for this thread, can I request that you lock it now as it has been superceded by the 'Press Release' thread - which has more relevance...)

Cheers
Carl

mods edit = this thread closed - see above 8)


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