# What Licence, What 5th Wheel, What a Mess



## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi
I am thinking of going over to the dark side, Selling the Monaco and buying a 5th wheel
I am doing this for a couple of reasons, 
1: I like the idea of no MOT or Maintenance, except for the obvious.
2:We spend 40% of our time static.
3:I really do not want to take a HGV and large trailer test, as very little of the theory applies to RV's
Looking at a fith wheel I would like about 30 feet, twin slides and about 3.5 tone. I would be happy to convert a Merc or Ford to tow it with but would prefer a Yank pick up.
I have tried VOSA and DVLA websites and am more confused than ever.
Can anyone save a drowning man?
Regards
Terry


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi Terry, You are almost reading my mind, I have contacted a company called Calder on 01506 880 411 and they are very helpful, I cannot answer your questions with any authority so I would contact these as I have.

My problem is I have only just got a new MH, But I wish I had thought about 5th wheel before, I also have an HGV license so a lot of it doesn't affect me, But ask them.

By The way this may help :- http://www.ivan.co.nz/MHEngland5th.htm

Good Luck


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## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi Les
Thank you. I have talked to Kalder and yes they are helpfull, but.............When pushed about handbrakes and the legality of a 30' unit and Truck they became a little " wooly "
I am hopeing someone will have been through the whole process and have had a definitive answer, although I am beginning to question weather the government have the answers.
Regards
Terry


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## 109412 (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi
The area of 5th wheels is very woolly in the UK. We have a 38' Fleetwood Prowler with 5 slide outs and we tow this with a Dodge Ram 2500 which we imported from America (and saved a fortune in doing so). My partner has a HGV licence but we know of approximately 5 others who have 5th wheels and they dont. These 5th wheels vary from 30' up to 35'. 

We used to have a Fleetwood Pace Arrow RV and we changed to a 5th wheel due to reasons like yourself. 

Initially we were going to import a 5th wheel from the states but then we found one in the UK that was a bargain. We bought ours from Anglo american RV in Uxbridge ( although he specialises in RV's rather than 5th wheels) but he is very knowledgable and may be able to answer some of your questions re legality, although I think the government havent actually made any decisions!!

Would recommend you buy American as opposed to the english versions as they seem to be better made.
Hope this helps

Pauline and Carl


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Cheyenne Imports http://www.cheyenneimports.co.uk/ have some US 5th wheels for sale. The Luxury by Design one looks sumptuous, but I'm not sure about towing one 42ft long though :?

Gerald


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

This is very nice  

http://www.fifthwheelco.com/build/the/celtic_rambler

and the peeps up there are very helpful indeed, might be worth a visit.


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## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks Folks.
Whilst we like the UK 5th Wheel, at 23' it is a little to short to full time in. So we hope a 30' should do the job ( But love the 42' )
Regards
Terry


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> Looking at a fith wheel I would like about 30 feet, twin slides and about 3.5 tone. I would be happy to convert a Merc or Ford to tow it with but would prefer a Yank pick up.
> I have tried VOSA and DVLA websites and am more confused than ever.
> Can anyone save a drowning man?
> Regards
> Terry


Terry

I take it you are asking which category of driving licence you would need for a 5th wheel rig?

If that's the case you will need a restricted C1+E (with the category restriction 107 - Train weight not to exceed 8,250 kilograms) or a full C1+E (up to 12,000 kilograms) if the rig is heavier than 8,250 kg.

If you passed your driving test before January 1st 1997, you will already hold a restricted C1+E.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi
Yes I have the C1+E 107.
If I split the 8.25 tone can I have an American Truck at 3.5 Tone and a 5th Wheel at 3.75 tone?
Regards
Terry


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

tel999 said:


> Hi
> Yes I have the C1+E 107.
> If I split the 8.25 tone can I have an American Truck at 3.5 Tone and a 5th Wheel at 3.75 tone?
> Regards
> Terry


Terry - the figures quoted (8.25 tonnes) refers to the train weight - that is the combined weight of the towing vehicle plus the weight of the trailer. 

So, your C1 part allows you to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes gross (i.e. laden) vehicle weight and the E part allows you to tow a trailer to make the total mass equal to 8.25 tonnes. 

Therefore your C1+E (restriction 107) allows you to drive your 3.5 tonne pickup with your 3.75 tonne trailer hitched up - a total train weight of 7.25 tonnes. Make sure that the pickup has the required capacity to pull such a trailer - it should be shown on the VIN plate (the larger of the four weights shown - at least on British / European vehicles).

The only problem I can see is that the trailer is heavier than the towing vehicle - might cause a few problems - the recommended maximum is 80% of the kerb weight of the towing vehicle - although this isn't actually law, at least not as far as I know. Plus, it is of course an articulated vehicle, think about it, current three axle tractor units weigh in at about 9 tonnes, and they tow fully laden three axle semi trailers weighing 24 tonnes!!

I would think that it would be advisable to get a few lessons in handling such a rig before you commit to buying - at least then you'll know what the handling / manoeuvring characteristics are.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

The other important point is that the pivot point is in front of the rear axle of the towing vehicle so the 80% rule just does not apply. That is just geometry


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

I'm sure there is a rule on a minimum percentage of (semi) trailer weight being imposed on the drawing vehicle - 20% springs to mind, but Keith (Srokit) will correct if not!

David


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

b16duv said:


> I'm sure there is a rule on a minimum percentage of (semi) trailer weight being imposed on the drawing vehicle - 20% springs to mind, but Keith (Srokit) will correct if not!
> 
> David


Absolutely correct David

Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Definitions: Articulated vehicle - a heavy motor car or motor car, not being an articulated bus, with a trailer so attached that part of the trailer is superimposed on the drawing vehicle and, when the trailer is uniformly loaded, not less than 20%; of the weight of its load is borne by the drawing vehicle.

The garbage I keep on my computer 

Keith (Sprokit) but I will forgive the missing letter :roll:


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

sprokit said:


> b16duv said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure there is a rule on a minimum percentage of (semi) trailer weight being imposed on the drawing vehicle - 20% springs to mind, but Keith (Srokit) will correct if not!
> ...


Hi Keith, have a P on me! Sorry!

David

Ps do the new mirror regulations affect motorhomes?


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

b16duv said:


> sprokit said:
> 
> 
> > b16duv said:
> ...


David - there's a thread on this already - http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-61657-.html - but to save you reading it all - the regulations refer to "large goods vehicles" - no mention of smaller vehicles as yet - but you never know, given their record, this lot could sneak anything in via the back door :twisted:


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