# Touring Europe- but how much planning?



## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Hello
We are planning to take our two children on a four week tour of Europe in August, travelling down through Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, & back through Italy & Switzerland.
As we are going in Aug my husband is turning the planning into a mission and has created a spread sheet detailing where we are going & for how long for, but it is at this point that we are disagreeing as he thinks we should pre-book every site but I think we should take our chances, although just book a few sites along the way.
What would anybody else recommend going in August? 

Thanks 

Sarah


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Sarah

How old are your children and how many miles are you looking to do?


stew


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi 
Our children are 10 & 8 and the furthest point we are travelling to is Dubrovnik which we intend to do over 10 days - which is 2,200km - (sorry I dont know it in miles but I would say quite a few! ) so at a rough estimate I would guess about 5000km
Sarah


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Sarah

I think thats approx 100 miles a day throughout the month, how are you going to plan the driving to rest/holiday days?


stew


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I think such a degree of forward planning works for some people but in others it only creates stress- you feel you have to keep up to the schedule and have no time to stop and enjoy or linger longer when you come to somewhere you would like to spend more time.

I can understand your husband wanting to make sure he has somewhere booked to stop overnight but I don't think , especially with a motorhome, it is necessary, even in high season.

Compromise it you can. Take a selection of campsite guides, a good route planning map and a mobile phone. Have a " master plan " ie we want to go to the countries you have listed then book your first night campsite for wherever you decide you will get ot from the ferry. Then work from day to day, booking ahead when you have decided where you are going to next day- or if you are going to move next day at all.

Look at the campsite database and blogs on MHF and get some advice from people who have done your route and then relax and drift. If you don't get to Dubrovnik then no problem, it will be there next year. 

The one thing you must avoid is coming back from the holiday feeling as if you have been frog-marched round Europe !


G


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

artona said:


> Hi Sarah
> I think thats approx 100 miles a day throughout the month, how are you going to plan the driving to rest/holiday days?
> stew


You beat me to it Stew. 

That won't be a holiday Sarah. Are you sure you intend to do all that driving in four weeks? :?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

A motoring holiday is fine for the parents, I'm not so sure about kids. We did 5500km in 5 weeks Sweden and Norway but that was just the two of us (we didn't prebook anywhere). 

Some days we drove over 300kms some days none.


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Umm food for thought - I thought we were biting off more than we could chew going all the way down to dubrovnik, but my other half thought it was feasible. His aim was to be driving 3 hrs every 3/4 days apart from 4-5 days in Croatia, and there will also be the occasional day when it is further.
I think we need to go back to the drawing board - and get rid of the spreadsheet!!


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## Arizona (May 9, 2005)

Hi Sarah

That's a lot to pack in to the 4 weeks. We spend 6-8 weeks in Europe each summer. We have 4 children, ages ranging from 5 to 11. We have only ever prebooked one campsite in 5 years and ended up not staying on that site for the amount of time we intended due to bad weather! 

I think it's an excellent idea to have a rough plan of where you want to go etc but I think part of the beauty of motorhoming is being able to come and go, if you like somewhere you can stay longer and vice versa. You'll never be stuck for a place to stay, you may not get your first choice all the time but in our experience will 90% of the time. 

Bring all the campsite books with you in case you have no internet access and the local tourist offices are great for info.

Good luck & Enjoy

Arizona


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## 105874 (Jul 16, 2007)

*European trip plans*

Hi,

We took our two children on a five week tour of France and Italy during Easter/Spring about 3 year ago and didn't book anything. In fact I think we only stayed on an official campsite for about 4 or 5 nights. The rest of the time we stayed on French Aire de Services (and the Italian equivalent) which are either free or very low cost. If you choose carefully these are safe and in some stunning locations.

We take our main holiday for 2 -3 week every August and simply book the ferry crossing - the rest is left to our mood. Not only do we find this the most flexible method, we also love the fact that we are not keeping to any timetables (one of the benefits of the motorhome). We have used this method to tour France, Norway, Czech republic, Ireland, Spain and Italy so far.....

A couple of years ago it really paid off. Having decided to go to the Massif Central a week after getting there and having great weather for a couple of days the weather changed and the forcast was terrible. So we looked for the best weather and headed for the Atlantic coast - where we had a great time and enjoyed the sunshine.

Last summer we planned to head for Slovenia, but only got as far as the German Alps and the Black Forest!

I am extremely jealous of your 4 weeks - enjoy yourselves and make sure you are not watching the clock too much.


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Thank you for saying what I have been thinking! I also believe that the beauty of the motorhome is the freedom to go where we want to without having to stick to a time table. Now to tell my husband......


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## 105874 (Jul 16, 2007)

*European touring planning*

Hi Sarah,

Just notice you are in Cheddar & have a Swift Sundance, we are just down the road in Langford/Churchill and have a Swift Kontiki (for the next couple weeks - ordered a new van).

Small world!


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Good evening Sarah! Have you told him yet? :? 

Your husband needs to understand what a motorhome holiday is all about. 8O 

A Motorhome gives flexibility, so why plan in great depth?  

A holiday should be relaxing, easy, a change from the mundane, open to the whim and the fancy, improvising as you go along, enjoying the gems along the way...  

It sounds like he had a busman's holiday planned!! :evil: 

Have you told him yet? :lol: :lol:


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

I am with the others. Plan next to nothing and see how it goes. Much more fun. We've been doing it for years !


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm in agreement with the others. It'll be no holiday for the kids at that sort of distance. Save the long jaunts for when they're older, and staying at home. Stay at some nice campsites, and they'll be keen to come away with you again.

Gerald


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi Dibs yes it is a small world! I will keep my eyes open for a shiny new van!

UncleNorm - yes I've told him - he has a mixed reaction & is fretting that we will be driving & have no where to stay - dont think he quite understands the concept of my new best friend Tom Tom.
His response to me is that he is going to mull it over! He's a project manager you see - which probably explains his need to plan!!

However - the planning stops here & if I see him with his laptop & spreadsheet again he will find them accidentally deleted!


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## 107012 (Sep 14, 2007)

Hi,

That sounds like our first trip to Cornwall in our new van. Husbands like to drive and get somewhere against the clock it seems? They don't have to know where they are going either and despite careful planning, they can change their minds as they pull out of the drive!! Mine has just got to get there fast.

My OH has calmed down a little now and his shouting "Come onnnnn!" has eazed somewhat. He is now enjoying the cooked meals I give him at mealtimes at a table, rather than at midnight (unloading), and again at daybreak! (packing up)

I'm with you on this one. Stick to your guns and don't play the game with him and he'll give up eventally. Anyway, the kids will whine from hunger and tiredness, so he'll slow down or go mad, in which case you can have him sectioned.
Enjoy your trip.


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

We met a project manager on a site in Madrid a few years ago.

He had worked out EVERY SINGLE LITTLE BIT of his holiday down to the expectation of cost of electricity on each campsite he was staying on. He even planned which campsites they would not have electricity on so as to save money.

He said that he couldn't help it. It was just the way he was.

He thought we were totally mad.. but I'm not sure


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

sarahessex said:


> is fretting that we will be driving & have no where to stay


I understand his fretting. I hate that feeling of nowhere to stay.

Even in the main holiday period, there will be places to stay. Just make sure you arrive at your destination before around 3pm. After 4, campsites begin filling up.

Having said that, I'd look to find a few sites on the way with nice facilities for the kids - swimming pool, beach, etc. Book them (the ones with the better facilities _can_ get busy), and stay a few days before moving on. That way, they'll have some nice fun times, you can relax, and you'll also get to do some touring.

Gerald


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Sarah

_Thank you for saying what I have been thinking!_ :lol: :lol: Thanks for saying that, I was concerned you might think we were ganging up on you :lol:

We took our three eldest children over to France once in August, a few years ago, they were a similar age to yours then.

We did loads of planning - pay for the tunnel, travel through it and turn right er, that was it :lol: :lol:

Had a fantastic holiday just discovering things but then I am a sort of maverick when it comes to this sort of thing and quite enjoy getting out of my debth - as long as its not too dangerous :lol: :lol:

stew


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## sarahessex (Nov 18, 2006)

Oh my goodness - if he gets that bad I wont take him & will do it alone - so watch this space- there may be spare seat going!!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

sarahessex said:


> - he has a mixed reaction & is fretting that we will be driving & have no where to stay
> !


No-where to stay ? You've got a motorhome on your back so to speak !

Seriously, I have a PhD in worrying and I can see his point of view. All I can add in mitigation is that in all the many, many years we've travelled the roads of Europe, in motorhomes and caravans and, until fairly recently, in school holidays, we have never , ever once been without a place to stay. We don't wild camp either- its either an aire or a campsite.

We are fairly sensible about it; we don't arrive, last thing at night, at a tourist hotspot and we are quite content not to be on the front row facing the sea.

G


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## 95201 (May 1, 2005)

*WE ARE LEAVING AT LAST*

hi all been a member for quiet a while but usually sat on fence 8O but thought i would come and say hello to everyone we are finally going to sell up and go for 6months touring Europe and summer have a narrow boat on canales this way we have best of both worlds and no mortgage elec,gas etc, bills  imy hubby has tried to get me to his way of thinking for a long time now and i have finally given in we have in the past twenty five years been touring Europe my husbands job has been off shore so the workers have been very flexible ie i do your two week holiday and you do mine sort of thing and it has worked well over many years now my hb has returned there is nothing stopping us only i have four pugs and one scottie dont get me wrong i have been taking my animals plus parrot since anilmal pass parts came out but i have acquired another two dogs since so that makes five dogs not parrot this time as my daughter will be looking after her and she would also look after two of my dogs but i am not prepared to leave them were i go my babies go we have a hobby 7.50 i would like to know you views on taking so many animals abroad oh forgot to mention already got dogs pass ports to sail from hull on 1st may :?:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Keep nagging Sarah - he will thank you for it afterwards when you look back on a super holiday.

We are going to France in September - probably. It might be Belgium though, or Holland, we haven't been there for a while. Germany is nice too and the beer is great.

That's if the weather is good, if not it might even be Northern Italy. It all depends which way the van is pointing when we get up in the morning - and whether we feel like turning the key in the ignition or just lazing about.

Get the idea?

Relax and enjoy it whatever you do.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Gosh, Nickleress, you have worn me out by your non-(full)stop account of your life! 
I hope you take things a bit slower on holiday!

Sarah, I am speaking here as a bloke who has the same problem as you. 
'Er indoors likes everything planned. Luckily she wouldn't know a spreadsheet from a bedsheet otherwise it would be worse.

She has finally come round to the "book the ferry and when driving off it sniff the air and then point the 'van" point of view.

That is the joy of motorhoming - have a rough idea of where you want to go and then just see what happens.

As someone has already pointed out - Europe will still be there next year!


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

Remember if your planning to do that much driving, it can get very hot in August.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*August*

Hello there,

Firstly, August is known to be a bad month for Driving. I am sure the French hold the Record with a 75 mile Autoroute Jam a few years back. If thats when you have to go then be prepared as most of Europe will have the same idea.

Planning, well bin the idea altogether. If you were driving to say Southern Spain or France for 2 or so weeks then I would have said book.
I have been touring Europe for 27 years by road and by far and the best way to do it in a motorhome is to just take each day as it comes.

After all if you have booked a campsite by card in say, Austria, you are miles away and there is a major road delay, what are you going to do? I can give you an idea what could happen.

*Get Stressed because your late :twisted: 
*Rush or skip lunch  
*Get ratty with the kids  
*Row :x 
*Get impatient with other drivers :evil: 
*Not end up reeaching the site, find a nicer one on the way, by which time someone may be in Coventry as opposed to the Alps! :wink:

Looking at your planned route it looks far too much for anyone wanting to relax and enjoy themselves. Even if you only drive 100 miles a day, get stuck somewhere like Lyon and that 100 miles could take you an awful long time.

I know all this because, let me tell you, I have been there. We rarely plan any long trip. The best of our trips are the ones without any agenda. Does not matter wether we travel alone, as a couple, couples or family.

I hope this helps?

Trev.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Hi Sarah,

We would have no worries about doing the trip you are thinking of. We have 2 children 5 & 8yrs and they just love to travel. We always find them things on the way (zoo, theme park, swimming) so they do get a holiday & time to enjoy themselves. Stay on 1 or 2 top sites on route so they have some other entertainment.

As for booking, never. How can you book when your not more than 50% sure where you will be from 1 day to the next. You may find a town or site and think of staying for a couple of days or you might have booked for 3nights and hate it.

Just go, enjoy. :wink:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*More*

Hello Again Sarah,

As fdhadi has mentioned it is always a good idea to find something for the kids to do. Not knowing you and yours it can be difficult to comment on the activities.

If your on a tight budget, you do not have to find something for kids to do that costs money. If they have been sat in the MH all day, a simple walk by the lake, involve them in the set-up, cooking anything.

Trev.


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

As far as I can see there's only one good reason for doing some research and a little planning and that's to try to ensure that while 2000 miles from home in a location which you might never again visit, you don't miss something 4 miles up the next valley which you would have been _very_ keen to see for real, but you didn't find out about it until you were surfing the net 3 weeks after you arrived home.

Ignorance is bliss only for as long as it remains ignorance, I suppose.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Smilo said:


> As far as I can see there's only one good reason for doing some research and a little planning and that's to try to ensure that while 2000 miles from home in a location which you might never again visit, you don't miss something 4 miles up the next valley which you would have been _very_ keen to see for real, but you didn't find out about it until you were surfing the net 3 weeks after you arrived home.
> 
> Ignorance is bliss only for as long as it remains ignorance, I suppose.


That's the sort of planning that reaps rewards. I was a project manager (hence part of signature) and its precisely because I know the difference between work and play that I don't plan precisely. See my blogs.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi having never actually toured with the MH abroad I can see that it would be pretty easy to do in the summer months, but what about this time of year with most of the camp sites closed in France ? (apart from aires and wildcamping).

I don't suppose anyone has a route with recommended stop offs on the way down to Andalucia or Portugal ? its the bit that I can't seem to plan.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

We are planning a holiday over the same route and same time duration but in June and with no kids. I'm in the process of checking insurance for the van. The current insurer, Equity Redstar will not cover us in either Croatia or Bosnia (the Neum corridor) and will not issue an additional green card. So far the only company to find me cover in both is Caravanguard with Confort covering Croatia but not Bosnia. You would need cover for both if you want to have continuos cover down to Dubrovnik.

Perhaps this would be another reason to rethink the itinerary


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Briarose said:


> I don't suppose anyone has a route with recommended stop offs on the way down to Andalucia or Portugal ? its the bit that I can't seem to plan.


There's loads - might I suggest you peruse the :: Continental Touring Forum ::?

:: Here's one ::. :: Here's another ::. I don't know how relevent they are, but there's heaps of suggestions, especially in the early part of winter for migrating British.

Gerald


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

geraldandannie said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> > I don't suppose anyone has a route with recommended stop offs on the way down to Andalucia or Portugal ? its the bit that I can't seem to plan.
> ...


Thanks Gerald I have been perusing for days now trying to gather as much info in my head as I can, the one thing I am worried about is the lack of internet access whilst travelling as I rely on it so much these days, I have my 3g card but obv it is probably going to be very expensive to use it abroad.

*Edit ps thanks for the links the first one is interesting but the 2nd no good as it is the Bilbao ferry route, the first one I am going to make notes of but it still doesn't mention over night stops,


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## julie798 (Jun 13, 2007)

*aires*

If one is travelling along the motorway in France, are the aires signed, are the smaller aires signed, or do you just have to work out what village your passing and come off motorway to find the aire?


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## sailor (Aug 23, 2005)

My view is that you need a general view of where you are going, but thats all - definitely no booking! Otherwise, any hold up - and there are bound to be some, maybe for good reasons like you see somewhere you like - becomes a major problem.

re your destinations, in August the coast road down Croatia is hell, very very busy. A few years ago we went into croatia, but only as far as Krk island. It was nice enough but travelling on that road was a nightmare because of the traffic.

Slovenia is beautiful, you could happily spend a lot of time there, in the Julian alps, around Bled, and further south in Postojna (may be spelt wrong). Still a bit busy in August but not like the croatia coast road.

You will enjoy it but you will enjoy it more if you take it as it comes.

Jeff O


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## Duadua (Feb 16, 2006)

Sarah



> Umm food for thought - I thought we were biting off more than we could chew going all the way down to dubrovnik, but my other half thought it was feasible. His aim was to be driving 3 hrs every 3/4 days apart from 4-5 days in Croatia, and there will also be the occasional day when it is further.


It's interesting to note the various comments so far. The majority of comments seem to suggest it's too far and or too much driving.

It is not possible for anyone, however well meaning, to advise you and your family how feasible / enjoyable your plan might be, as you and your family and your likes and dislikes are unique. All previous comments are personal and made in the light of the commentators likes and dislikes.

Personally I think the above breakdown is perfectly feasible, giving you a new and different holiday, within the main holiday, every 3/4 days in a different location. Only you can judge how to entertain your children enroute, and I am sure there are lots of ways, including looking out of the window!

You could even get up early, having settled your camp site bills the night before, and complete your 3 hours driving by 11.00 am, if that appeals.

The best advice is to continue with all the research about the possible stops, in order to get an idea for stopping off points, in order to get the most from the stops and hopefully in order not to miss something.

I am sure the children can get involved with next destination decisions enroute.

I agree with the majority who say don't worry about booking in advance. You will only regret not being able to move on, or stay longer etc. as you find places.

I fear for your husband's reaction if you present him with "this is what this forum says".

At the end of the day stay flexible, discuss it and enjoy it as you go. The best navigators job enroute is researching where to stop next, for a coffee, lunch, or for the night and what to do when you get there.

Enjoy it, while you can, in case you regret not doing it later. The truth of the matter is that Europe is far too big to be able to do it all at a relaxed pace, in any lifetime. So go for it, if you want to.

Your motorhome should already have everything on board to make it the most convenient and enjoyable way of touring, without having to book too much / anything at all, in advance.


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## tincan (Jul 31, 2006)

quote[As far as I can see there's only one good reason for doing some research and a little planning and that's to try to ensure that while 2000 miles from home in a location which you might never again visit, you don't miss something 4 miles up the next valley which you would have been very keen to see for real, but you didn't find out about it until you were surfing the net 3 weeks after you arrived home]Smilo

Amen to Smilo's comments. Planning a holiday in far flung places should definitely include sights not to be missed. A quick search on Google or the regional tourist web sites will highlight so many features to be visited. With children of the ages of Sarah you need to avoid excessive driving unless you want to go nuts from "are we there yet" all day every day, remember it's their holiday too and they wont want to sit in the MH playing I spy for 4 weeks. When our pair travelled with us we drove for a week - stayed put for two weeks and then took another week to travel home, never driving after 3pm. This allows time for a swim and playtime and a chance for Mum and Dad to relax too. (This advice is from a scheduler and project manager in a previous life)

Noel


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## 105874 (Jul 16, 2007)

Keeping the kids amused - Our two boys have always been good travellers, but the invention of the mobile 12v DVD player has been most welcomed! Give tham a good film and an apple each and they will happily travel for miles! Our normal plan is to have a couple days of long distance travel on the way 'South' to our rough destination and then ample around leaving enough time for the return journey to be relaxed with time to stop off en route for long lunches and little surprise campsite/aires.

If travelling to and from Calais, I would recommend a night (or 2) at Le Toquet on the way home with a visit to Aqualund - the kids will love it, and it is a great reward at the end of a long drive. The area is also great for easy cycling with a nice town/market etc.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

*Re: aires*



julie798 said:


> If one is travelling along the motorway in France, are the aires signed, are the smaller aires signed, or do you just have to work out what village your passing and come off motorway to find the aire?


Its just like motorway service areas in this country; some have their own exits and others are just off junction round-abouts but usually well sign-posted. Some of the non-motorway dual carriageway aires can be in the nearest village. I'm thinking of the ones to the side of the Bordeaux to Bayonne (N10?)
The signs will usually tell you what services are available (whether or not fuel is available etc and often what the price is).


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

I think one of the pleasures of a holiday is the planning where to go and what to see. I do it each time we go away (2 x 6 weeks to France each year). However, the only time we have booked is to accommodate friends who joined us with a tent for a week, and this was only to get the actual pitch we wanted. We always stay on campsites (so far) and only once did we have to go to another site as the first was full up for that day. That was in Vaison La Romaine so we were not surprised and lots and lots of other sites around. 

Planning is part of the fun. But it is only planning. If a road looks good or a town not quite so interesting as we thought then ditch the plan and use the MH for which it was designed. 

Probably the most we changed our plan was last year when we stopped at a site we knew quite well for a night. Eight nights later we moved on. I also remember a time we couldn't decide which way to go near the Lot valley. OH asked "heads or tails?" "Heads" says I - "Cahors it is then" says he. Nothing like a bit of forward planning.

This year the plan is to go to from Caen to Provence via friends in Charante. Well, we will definately visit the friends, then who knows ...........    

Happy planning but don't commit yourselves too soon.

Sue


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Duadua said:


> It is not possible for anyone, however well meaning, to advise you and your family how feasible / enjoyable your plan might be, as you and your family and your likes and dislikes are unique. All previous comments are personal and made in the light of the commentators likes and dislikes.
> 
> Personally I think the above breakdown is perfectly feasible . . .


Hi Duadua

Did you really mean to shoot yourself in the foot like this? :lol: :lol:

You are mostly right of course, but I think a lot depends on Sarah's and her husband's previous motorhoming experience. Her first post was unclear on this, but it sounded to me as though they are not very experienced with long journeys - otherwise the nature of the query would have been different.

If they are used to driving (say) 300 miles every couple of days and they are confident the kids can take it, then fine.

If this is their first trip of this nature and involving these distances I would certainly not recommend it.

Unless they both drive it could even be potentially dangerous. After 200 miles already on a steaming hot day, then a stop for lunch, the next session of driving (_with a deadline to meet if pre-booked on a site_) is the time you feel your eyelids drooping. :? :?

Only my opinion as the man said, but Sarah did ask for recommendations.


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

tincan said:


> Planning a holiday in far flung places should definitely include sights not to be missed. A quick search on Google or the regional tourist web sites will highlight so many features to be visited..........
> Noel


Only for the last 12mths have we been sat-navigators. Once or twice during that time we've done only very basic planning and relied on POIs to brighten a journey through an area we didn't know well. This hasn't (yet) been a very successful "technique" and we soon became aware that in keeping to such a plan we were allowing it to dictate our movements. And that felt very wrong.

Have you read the wonderful _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_? If you have, you'll perhaps see a small parallel within this thread. Why do some people prefer to ride old high maintenance Harley Davidsons and necessarily understand how they work, while others ride newer and "ruthlessly" reliable BMWs and have no wish, nor need, to understand how they work?

Me, I feel I know almost nothing about psychology, but I know I find it interesting. I know it's quite possible to keep a foot in both the Harley and the BMW camp, and to change allegiances too. Quite a number of my colleagues and acquaintances would, I think, wrongly expect me to be a "dreamy drifter" type of traveller, and their thinking affects my thinking to such an extent that I'm now a little surprised to realise that I very definitely don't enjoy certain types of uncertainty, and although I can be comfortable with conjecture (on matters prehistorical, for example), I'm generally not too keen to substitute reliable information for guesswork.

I know I soon feel negative about being unable to see something to interest me in the road movies which flow past the windows of our van and I've come to feel that any and every town centre, for example, and any and every forest should be interesting to me. I'm frustrated when we "explore" into places which aren't. This would probably explain why my erstwhile navigator (made redundant-ish by sat nav, poor thing), quite often accuses me of taking us on (short but), wildly whimsical goose chases. I must admit that half(?) of them don't turn out to be even half(?) as exciting as they should've been.

Unless travelling alone, or with an identical twin, the (apparently) aimless dawdler will sooner or later have to dig out some fairly specific goals and objectives. Not to do so would be unfair and then, perhaps long before you might have expected it, a sense of that unfairness combines with the effects of a poor night's sleep, a bit of backache, a seat on the too sunny side of the van to create intolerance where once not very long ago there was thought to be all sweetness and light.

Hmmmmm, ho-flippin-ho,

Anyway, here's my plan:

*Stay within Europe. Most of the time*.​
POIs = Points of Interest (he added, being a person who gets a little annoyed when others wrongly assume that he understands jargon of any sort).



sailor said:


> My view is that you need a general view of where you are going, but thats all - definitely no booking! Otherwise, any hold up - and there are bound to be some, maybe for good reasons like you see somewhere you like - becomes a major problem...........
> 
> Jeff O


But rules are meant to be broken? I agreed totally about "no booking" then remembered that by mid to late afternoon, particularly if we're well out of season or heading for a very popular location, we do quite often phone ahead to check that a site we've plucked out of thin air (thin book or thin map), really is open and really has vacancies.

Any sort of reservation made so late doesn't carry much weight, of course, but it's an important part of frazzle avoidance, which surely must be an important part of a holiday. On the odd occasion when we book ahead in that way, then change our minds, we do phone the first site so as to let the folks know just how fickle we are.

I appreciate that taking children on holiday can make a great difference to the style and rhythms of that holiday. When our grandchildren are a little older I'm sure we'll do much less daily mileage and we'll probably stay on sites for longer than our usual one or two nights.

Perhaps one day a statistician will produce a graph showing how the camping to travelling ratio varies according to the ages of the people involved. (Then we can say, 'Hmm, that's interesting, but I'm not surprised'. :lol: ).

I wonder if perhaps those who've converted from caravanning to motorhoming are more likely to stop on sites for longer. At least motorhomers have no problem with the principles involved. The folks who worry me are those who own (VW) (camper)vans but seem to forget to go camping. Or even to drive anywhere interesting. Perhaps they're beyond help? :wink:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Smilo

A very thought-provoking post there. Interesting to reference Pirsig's Pride - when I first read it, some (actually, many) years ago, I found parallels with my own life, although on a very different level. But I can certainly understand you 'foot in both camps' point. Practicalities, and the need to conform (if only to ensure the inflow of cash to fund the lifestyle), mean that the Harley is out; smooth and clean and efficient is in.

Over the years, my lifestyle has become flabby. I like a place to sleep, and a separate place to shower, and wash. I can lounge with 5 friends / family, and I can be pretty certain of getting to where I want or need to get to the next day.

So in that respect, my motorhoming is perhaps a little less intrepid than yours, and many others on here. I enjoy my comfort, and I can enjoy relaxing. I probably don't visit the quantity of places that you do, but I've got a few years yet.

The one thing I do enjoy is meeting people. To me, the physical place is only part of the story. I love to meet the people that live there, and to try to get under their skin, and find out what their life is like.

My most interesting trip was to North Wales in the October half term. We visited Porthmeirion, we had lovely walks, frosty mornings, rolling hills, and fascinating people. We came into contact with a lot of the locals, and they were a rich (but poor) group.

We have a friend who likes to 'tick boxes'. She visits Barcelona - *tick*. Australia? *tick*. Never done Italy, going to the same place as Annie and Gerald in the summer - *tick*. She seems to collect towns and countries, and doesn't visit any place more than once. To her, it's location, location, location, been there, done that.

I suppose what I'm saying is that there is more to travelling than visiting places, it's _experiencing_ places.

Sorry to ramble 

Gerald


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

:lol: NEVER stop rambling, Gerald dude!!!

There does seem to me to be the essence of something (not unlike an ethic?), in this thread though. I guess it's in the areas of Why, How and Where we do what we do with our vans and how important we feel those elements might be.

Our current van, although a little smaller than the previous one, is relatively so much more sophisticated that........., Shhhhhhh, it isn't really a campervan at all!!  How could it be when it's so comfortable and reliable and relaxing to drive?! :lol:

I'm not, of course, averse to having a natter, but I just wish I could make a better go of conversing in other languages. And then sometimes I'll say to myself that I'm really not under any obligation to be the life and soul of any party! I am sure though that we've got to slow down, do less daily mileage and stop around longer (and in that way one ends up nattering often for no better reason than that, in campsite terms, one has become a local, of sorts).

_"I can see by my watch, without taking my hand from the left grip of the cycle, that it is eight-thirty in the morning. The wind, even at sixty miles an hour, is warm and humid. When it's this hot and muggy at eight-thirty, I'm wondering what it's going to be like in the afternoon.

In the wind are pungent odors from the marshes by the road. We are in an area of the Central Plains filled with thousands of duck hunting sloughs, heading northwest from Minneapolis toward the Dakotas. This highway is an old concrete two-laner that hasn't had much traffic since a four-laner went in parallel to it several years ago. When we pass a marsh the air suddenly becomes cooler. Then, when we are past, it suddenly warms up again.

I'm happy to be riding back into this country. It is a kind of nowhere, famous for nothing at all and has an appeal because of just that. Tensions disappear along old roads like this. We bump along the beat-up concrete between the cattails and stretches of meadow and then more cattails and marsh grass. Here and there is a stretch of open water............."_

[align=right:fbf02b50f0]From "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - An Enquiry Into Values", by Robert M. Pirsig[/align:fbf02b50f0]


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