# Dumb and dumber.



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

My partner and I went down to Brighton in November to support her son who was doing a London to Brighton off road 85 mile bike ride in aid of the British Heart Fiundation.
We duly turned up to see him across the finish line after parking several miles away and a lot of faffing about with credit cards to park .
Saw him across the finish line when he skied if we could give him a lift home to Balham as we were going to Chertsy cc& c club mot far from where he lived.
I just drove him home without thinking I was driving right through the middle of the LEZ zone in a 3850 kg motorhome and have a month later received a £500.00 fine because I am considered to be a bus or Lorry.
This is non negotiable and I owe this amount for being blissfully ignorant or thick.
I did not see any signs stating i was in the LEZ and the site we were going to was inside the LEZ but not included.
I did not realise the LEZ was basically anywhere inside the M25 barring a few exclusion areas.
Live and learn,
Another stealth tax on the blissfully unaware or dumb and dumber.
What do you think?
Do I deserve it or should there be tollerance for out if towers who have made an honest mistake?


----------



## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Thats a bummer, especially at this time of year. We got caught with a PCN after doing the Dartford crossing and leaving it to eachother to go online to pay. It wasn't anywhere near £500 though. If pay within 14 days the charge is reduced by 50%, so £250. Still an expensive mistake granted, but you probably drove past plenty of signs warning of the LEZ and surely you were aware of its existence. As we have all discovered at some point in our lives, ignorance is no excuse!!!!


----------



## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

Have you checked the LEZ website to see if your vehicle is exempt?

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/lez-lez-vehicle-checker-35896


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Easily done when you are out of familiar territory.


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Hi all, unfortunately my vehicle is not exempt and as you say ignorance might be bliss but not an excuse.
I was aware of the congestion charge and the LEZ but did not think it covered such a vast area virtually everything inside the M25.
Very expensive lesson learnt.


----------



## trek (May 1, 2005)

£500 Crickey thats one excessive penalty charge


After the occasional tv program about policing in the uk i have decided 5hat crime can pay


Go and mug a few people to get the cash to pay it off, if your caught by the police your fine would be probably far less than you steal

Or stop paying car tax RFL Lots seem to have since paper tax discs stopped with little chance of getting caught and again fines so low its probably worth the risk


----------



## trek (May 1, 2005)

Just entered my registration number for my 2008 5 ton camper 

And was told no charge 

So from that i assume no further action required But i have a bad feeling about this web site 

Do i still need to register even though there Is no charge ? I think its design / worded to catch people out


So is the PCN you received because you are considered to be in a polluting vehicle or hadnt registered ?


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

It is a bit of a stealth tax to catch the unwary and as you say very excessive charge.
I have appealed but I know I've got no chance just delaying the inevitable .
Penalty s £500.00 be paid in 14 days if not paid rises to £1000.00 then to £1500.00.


----------



## trek (May 1, 2005)

Unbelievable that the daily charge for a motor home going anywhere inside m25 over 3500kg is £200


What a way to encourage tourists 


You could try writing explaining you were completely oblivious etc etc , nowt to loose but u will have to pay that £500 

Gobsmacked for you


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

:crying::crying:Hi Trek I have appealed but I am sure I will have to pay as said earlier ignorance is not an excuse,unfortunately .


----------



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

trek said:


> Unbelievable that the daily charge for a motor home going anywhere inside m25 over 3500kg is £200
> 
> *What a way to encourage tourists
> *
> ...


is every motorhome over 3.5tonne a tourist though - many could be owned by people living in the LEZ?? and it's not a tax on tourism but a tax on polluting vehicles. it doesn't matter if it's a car or truck or anything in between, if your engine is polluting a crowded environment you pay - the more polluting, the more you pay. and a policy that many cities across Europe are actioning.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Your vehicle is not mentioned though. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/complying-with-ulez

The category that you have been fined for does not include motorhomes over 3500kg. What have you stated in your appeal? I Would be tempted to say that I forgot but also I thought the fine would be £130 as that is the only category that mentions motorhomes. I would check but with parking fines once you start an appeal the 14 day time limit is suspended (ive appealed against loads, and won) so there may be no pressure to pay it while your appeal is processed.

It does seem excessive for a none commercial vehicle who simply made a mistake and the categories do not cover your vehicle.


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Hi Barry I have appealed and stated that we are a privately owned motorhome and it was a mistake but they are charging me the same as a bus or a Lorry as the weight is over 3500kg and mine is 3850kg.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

As someone who owns a house within the LEZ and a MH I feel the system is biased against motorhome owners for two reasons.

1. MHs do not move within the LEZ very often, and when they do it is not to drive around the Zone, but to get out of it, so their contribution to pollution is negligible.

2 Commercial vehicles have a life of about 3-4 years so most vans now are probably Euro 5-6, whereas MHs do much less mileage and are kept longer, many are Euro 2-4 and are not exempt.

Taking these points together the idea of applying LEZ to PHGV vehicles like MHs has almost zero effect on reducing pollution.

Geoff


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

A14GAS said:


> Hi Barry I have appealed and stated that we are a privately owned motorhome and it was a mistake but they are charging me the same as a bus or a Lorry as the weight is over 3500kg and mine is 3850kg.


I found this thread from 2014 on OAL. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk...atters/London-Emmision-Zone-LEZ-Charge/35700/

Unfortunately the OP does not come back to say what the outcome was. Im also not sure how up to date the info was but there is an argument that a warning letter should have been issued.

It does appear to me though that your only hope is with their discretion based on the fact that your vehicle does not appear to fit any of the categories.

To be honest I wasnt aware that it was pretty much everywhere inside the M25 and that bloke in the OAL thread was really unlucky. Its pretty easy to get off at a wrong junction or blindly follow the sat nav into trouble.


----------



## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi my ducato is over 3.5t and is lez free according to there number plate checker

barry


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mine is free as well and we are over 3500kg to.

I started to register but now have to set up an account first!

Graham :serious:


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ;2783001[B said:


> ]Mine is free[/B] as well and we are over 3500kg to.
> 
> I started to register but now have to set up an account first!
> 
> Graham :serious:


Do you mean it shows as 'exempt'? If so, they have your vehicle in the system, so why do you need to register - for what?

Foreign vehicles need to register because they aare not automatically on the database.

Geoff


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> Do you mean it shows as 'exempt'? If so, they have your vehicle in the system, so why do you need to register - for what?
> 
> Foreign vehicles need to register because they aare not automatically on the database.
> 
> Geoff


Yes I misread it Geoff. It says to register if your vehicle is not registered in the UK. My mistake.

When I put my reg in I get...

*No charge due for this vehicle* *This vehicle either meets the required emission standards, is exempt from the scheme or is subject to a 100% discount.*

Does that mean I still have to register though?

Graham :serious:

PS I just emailed them to ask...just for clarity. I'll update when I get an answer.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Blimey! I just checked and they want £100 a day to take my van inside the zone.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

This is turning out to be a very useful thread albeit a bit late for the OP :frown2:

Graham :serious:


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Thanks to all of you for taking time to post good helpful information in response to my post.
Maybe it will help people and stop them doing the same as me in the future.
Alex.


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Will let you know the outcome and if they show Mercy or the full extent of the law .


----------



## Revise (May 13, 2012)

i wonder where the money goes off all these fines and charges. does it all go back to TFL for improving the environment and roads or is it syphoned off for some other cause's?


----------



## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

A14GAS said:


> It is a bit of a stealth tax to catch the unwary and as you say very excessive charge.
> I have appealed but I know I've got no chance just delaying the inevitable .
> Penalty s £500.00 be paid in 14 days if not paid rises to £1000.00 then to £1500.00.


According to the TFL website you have 28 days to pay or make representations. Only then does the charge rise by 50%. If you pay within 14 days the charge is reduced by 50%. I am unsure as to why some on here think that your vehicle doesn't fall within a category. Again the TFL website is clear. The relevant table of vehicle categories shows MOTOR CARAVANS more than 3.5tonnes gvw - £200 (per day)

The TFL website is very informative.


----------



## A14GAS (Oct 9, 2014)

Hi Caulkhead , I know I am over 3.5 tonnes and my pre paid charge is £200.00 as a phg vehicle but the fine is £500.00 for not pre paying which is what I am being charged for . Will be a bit more carefull where I drive around London in the future.
You would think they would give me the opportunity to pay the charge not just automatically charge me the higher amount for making a mistake.


----------



## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

A14GAS said:


> Hi Caulkhead , I know I am over 3.5 tonnes and my pre paid charge is £200.00 as a phg vehicle but the fine is £500.00 for not pre paying which is what I am being charged for . Will be a bit more carefull where I drive around London in the future.
> You would think they would give me the opportunity to pay the charge not just automatically charge me the higher amount for making a mistake.


Hopefully the fact that you have triggered the appeals process will suspend the 14 day period in which the fine is reduced by 50%. If your appeal is successful, which I sincerely hope it is, then great! If not I hope you still have the opportunity to pay the reduced amount.

It does seem extremely heavy handed to simply weigh in with the PCN rather than giving you the chance to pay the charge for entering the LEZ on just one occasion. There records must show that you have never entered the LEZ before. Talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!


----------



## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Dartford Tunnel give you the opportunity to pay the basic fee late if you forget on a once off basis only. It's in the small print of the notice they send you.


----------



## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Good to know about LEZ. I didn't. Just checked the website. My moho (under 3.5t) is FREE. Bonus!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Do we have a link to the page where you can check your vehicle?


----------



## Drew (May 30, 2005)

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/check-if-your-vehicle-is-affected

Try the above Kev.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks Drew, their website is a nightmare to negotiate.


----------



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Try this Kev.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/check-if-your-vehicle-is-affected

Mine seems to be exempt, although living in N. Ireland I doubt if it will benefit me.

Davy

Sorry double info, I landed on different thread page for some reason.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

No worries Davy, better twice than not at all


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Do we have a link to the page where you can check your vehicle?


Post #3 had the link Kev!:wink2:

Graham :smile2:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes I missed the first one G :roll:


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

GMJ said:


> Yes I misread it Geoff. It says to register if your vehicle is not registered in the UK. My mistake.
> 
> When I put my reg in I get...
> 
> ...


I received an email back from TfL...

Low Emissions Zone (LEZ) - Enquiry
Thank you for your enquiry, received 15 December 2017, about the LEZ.
We are happy to confirm that if your vehicle states on the online checker that 'no charge due' then this means that your
vehicle meets the required standards to travel within the LEZ and you do not need to make a payment or registration
for this vehicle. 

So no further action is necessary if it says it is exempt. I guess if it doesn't say that when you check, then you need to register.

Graham :smile2:


----------

