# Driving licence for over 3500kgs question



## Pugwash (Jun 12, 2005)

Hi there,

I passed my driving test forty years ago - long before the latest licences came into use - and I undertsand this entitles me to drive vehicles up to 7500kgs. on an ordinary "car" licence. However, I also understand that in the EU an ordinary "car" licence only allows driving a vehicle up to 3500kgs. An HGV or equivalent is required to drive anything over 3500kgs. I've recently been told that UK car licences are only accepted in Europe for vehicles of 3500kgs or less and if you drive your five tonne motorhome on a car licence outside the UK (or your 3.8 tonne motorhome) you're driving illegally. Bye bye insurance.

What do members here do if they have a motorhome which weighs over 3500kgs., don't have an HGV and want to drive on the continent?

Any advice welcomed.
Pugwash.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Pugwash as long as your licence is legal here for the vehicle you drive, its legal abroad.

Olley


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Pugwash said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I passed my driving test forty years ago - long before the latest licences came into use - and I undertsand this entitles me to drive vehicles up to 7500kgs. on an ordinary "car" licence. However, I also understand that in the EU an ordinary "car" licence only allows driving a vehicle up to 3500kgs. An HGV or equivalent is required to drive anything over 3500kgs. I've recently been told that UK car licences are only accepted in Europe for vehicles of 3500kgs or less and if you drive your five tonne motorhome on a car licence outside the UK (or your 3.8 tonne motorhome) you're driving illegally. Bye bye insurance.
> 
> ...


Hi Pugwash,

When we came into line with the rest of Europe, we were granted "grandfather" rights with regards to driving licences, and those of us who passed our test prior to Jan 97, kept the 7.5 tonne category C1.
This entitlement permits you to drive a vehicle of that category, quite legally, anywhere in Europe. 
For anyone passing their driving test after Jan 97, they are restricted to 3.5 tonne, category B, unless they take a further test.

You will be covered by your insurance provided that you are qualified, and have complied with the requirements as a licence holder, for that category of vehicle.
Be careful as you get older, as the DVLA will remove categories without informing you. Others older than myself will be able to advise of the exact age.

For more info, >>See here<<

HTH,

Jock.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Jock you are right Ray had his C1 dropped from his new Licence issued when he was 70 and they didnt inform him.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Has anyone taken a test in a motorhome over 3500 kg?

Dave p


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

hi dave p

you can't take a C1 test in a motorhome. sorry.

des


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Requirements are here for the c1 test vehicle.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022527

Karl


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi Paul who runs the RV owners association, told me recently that he had been imformed by the DVLA that you could now take your test in an RV.

He's a pretty clued up guy, so I think he might be correct.

Olley


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## tude (Feb 9, 2008)

*license*

hi
ive just gone threw my medical for class one ive now reached 50 . the dvla have sent me a leaflet explaining what you can and carnt drive now all these rv over 7.5 tons im told you can drive on a ordinary license. the dvla says anything including m/h that legally weigh loaded more than 7.5 tons you must have lgv 2 thanks tude


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pugwash

Your 'grandfather-rights' licence enables you to drive up to 7500kg both here and abroad. However, at 70 years of age you lose this right unless you take a medical to continue driving vehicles over 3500kg. The medical itself is quite a light-weight affair unless you have a serious health problem.

Ron


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Just to reinforce what has already been said. If you have C1 you are ok up 7.5 tonnes anywhere in Europe. Know lots about this as I had a few 7.5 ton lorries and had to be careful about who could and could not drive them. 

Will say it gets a lot more interesting when you start to add trailers etc. to your over 3.5 ton (C1 plus E restricted) vehicle, Alan.


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## 118130 (Nov 11, 2008)

I took my test before 1997 so I'm fine, but the OH took her's after 1997 - she's had the medical and added C1 provisional entitlement to the licence but does anyone know how you go about getting it?

I've phoned all the local instructors, etc, but they'll either only offer a C course and test or they have no clue how to just get C1. Does anyone have any idea? (I'm based in Swindon)

Appologies for hijacking the thread, it just seemed a relavant place to ask


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi my local HGV training company charges almost the same for C1 as it does for C, as theirs no difference in the actual test apart from being a bigger vehicle; you might as well take the C test.

Olley


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

olley said:


> Hi my local HGV training company charges almost the same for C1 as it does for C, as theirs no difference in the actual test apart from being a bigger vehicle; you might as well take the C test.
> 
> Olley


Good advice Olley, and it may come in handy if times get hard.

Jock.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

ob1 said:


> Pugwash
> 
> Your 'grandfather-rights' licence enables you to drive up to 7500kg both here and abroad. However, at 70 years of age you lose this right unless you take a medical to continue driving vehicles over 3500kg. The medical itself is quite a light-weight affair unless you have a serious health problem.
> 
> Ron


 Not so long ago they tried to stop LGV drivers licenses if they required 'corrected' vision!

Luckily it got chucked out after intervention by Unions amongst others. Don't drop your guard too low.


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## Tinyk (Mar 18, 2009)

I dont wish to put a dampner on things but remember you now have to have a CPC for driving an HGV and anyone that has not completed the driver cpc in the next few years will loose the right to continue to drive.

Not sure if it applies to the lower license but certainly the LGV one does and you have to complete 35 hour minimum training before you can drive.

Might be worth looking into for anyone currently driving an HGV type rig unless they make any changes to the legislation.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Tinyk said:


> I dont wish to put a dampner on things but remember you now have to have a CPC for driving an HGV and anyone that has not completed the driver cpc in the next few years will loose the right to continue to drive.
> 
> Not sure if it applies to the lower license but certainly the LGV one does and you have to complete 35 hour minimum training before you can drive.
> 
> Might be worth looking into for anyone currently driving an HGV type rig unless they make any changes to the legislation.


Hi Tinky,

I may be wrong, but I understood the Driver CPC was required for commercial driving, ie, "for a living" and although it is now part of the driving standards for newbies taking their LGV/PCV tests, I didn't think that it affected private, non commercial use.

Direct Gov - Driver CPC

Business Link - Driver CPC

At last I have found what many on here will want, (sixth category down). Driver CPC - Exemptions

My problem is because I do casual HGV/PSV, no employer wants to pay for my 35 hours training, however, I do have until 2014 at the very latest to get it sorted.

Jock.


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## oilslick (Oct 3, 2007)

*Err isnt that 2 licences?*

I had never heard of this CPC thing until now.

So you take your test, then you have to errr take another test!

Might be better to just include the elements of the CPC in the first test


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Err isnt that 2 licences?*



oilslick said:


> I had never heard of this CPC thing until now.
> 
> So you take your test, then you have to errr take another test!
> 
> Might be better to just include the elements of the CPC in the first test


Hi Oilslick,

Taken from one of my links above..........

*For New drivers

You will have to pass an initial Driver CPC qualification before being able to drive professionally. It can be taken at the same time as the vocational driving test.*

Personally, I see it as nothing other than another "Euro" rip off, and no doubt we Brits, (as usual), will be the first to comply, whilst the rest of Europe "dilly dallys' along" with no rush to implement it, or enforce it.

Jock.


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

> My problem is because I do casual HGV/PSV, no employer wants to pay for my 35 hours training, however, I do have until 2014 at the very latest to get it sorted.


Jock
Unfortunately if you want to drive PSV's you only have until September 2013 - PSV CPC went live September 2008 



> Personally, I see it as nothing other than another "Euro" rip off, and no doubt we Brits, (as usual), will be the first to comply, whilst the rest of Europe "dilly dallys' along" with no rush to implement it, or enforce it.


I worked in France a couple of years ago (during an exchange with French Officers) - they have had something similar to the CPC for some years - all commercial drivers (PSV & HGV) had to carry a training certificate - if they couldn't produce, they were prohibited from driving until they did produce or fax a copy to the local Traffic office. 8O

Total agreement re "commercial" - if you require a cat C (HGV) or D (PSV) purely for private, non-commercial driving, you're exempt. 

Keith (Sprokit)


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

*Re: Err isnt that 2 licences?*



oilslick said:


> I had never heard of this CPC thing until now.
> 
> So you take your test, then you have to errr take another test!


 Yep! Pass the test, 30+ years experience then have to listen to someone telling us how do do the job.

The 'instructors' are probably wanabee truckers who couldn't manage the job in the first place.


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## Pugwash (Jun 12, 2005)

*Driving licence question*

Thanks to everyone who answered my origianl question regarding licences for driving >3500kgs in Europe, and also to all those who went on to supply further information.

Much appreciated.

Regards
Pugwash.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

olley said:


> Hi Pugwash as long as your licence is legal here for the vehicle you drive, its legal abroad.
> 
> Olley


There is one big exception to this, but it probably affects few folk on here (but could affect their offsping).

Even if you pass your test at 17 in the UK you still cannot drive in any other country with a higher minimum driving age (e.g. 18 in France) until you reach the minimum age to drive in that country.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

I'd like to see that chapter and verse. I passed at 16 (IOM has lower driving age) and in those days was OK on UK and foreign roads. I drove in Sweden, checked with local police on summer exchange, and drove motor home in Europe. That was before we were in the EU, or was it, No just after but before all the levelling and equivalncy stuff.

I am not aware of any restriction, if you have passed a test in the EU, it is recognised. You may not be able to swap for a local one if you became a permanent resient so that would stopm driving temporarily, but as a visitor?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I think that if you live in an EU member country whatever is legal there applies to you in any other member state. For instance, till recently (and maybe still as there was a big row about it) a learner driver, in a car at least, could drive unaccompanied in Southern Ireland. Those same drivers could often be seen driving unaccompanied in Northern Ireland, this caused a fuss in the local press and on the radio but the conclusion was that it was legal. 

A definitive answer would be interesting, Alan.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

It's what my daughter and other members of the http://www.under17-carclub.co.uk/ were told - but that was 13 years ago so perhaps things have changed.

This http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103 isn't very clear, it just says


> However, you should note that while the minimum age for driving a car in GB is 17 individual member states may apply their own age restrictions for entitlements.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

sprokit said:


> Jock
> Unfortunately if you want to drive PSV's you only have until September 2013 - PSV CPC went live September 2008


Spot on Keith. At least I only have to do the one, to cover both licences.

Re the Europeans, do our Eastern European cousins posses this CPC certificate, as the French do? Some of them shouldn't be allowed to drive a tractor and trailer, never mind being let loose on a 44 Tonner. :?

Another gripe of mine, is that having been CRB checked for Lincolnshire School Transport, it doesn't count for Cambridgeshire School Transport which my employer also contracts for. :x :x :x "Oh no sir, that'll be another £40 please".

But we digress.

Regards,

Jock.


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## oldenstar (Nov 9, 2006)

I have a lapsed PCV licence, held since 1973, lapsed since 2004.

I believe that if I pass a medical my PCV licence will be re-instated.

The biggest PCV I drove was some 24 tons max laden, and 12m long.

As I am 70 next year would a re-instated PCV allow me to drive a Motorhome over 3500Kg?

Or would the lunacy that used to prevent me as a fully qualified and very experienced PCV driver from driving a relatively small 10 ton truck still prevail?

It is a hypothetical question at present as my van is 3500Kg.

Paul


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## TJ101 (Oct 12, 2008)

thieawin said:


> I'd like to see that chapter and verse. I passed at 16 (IOM has lower driving age) and in those days was OK on UK and foreign roads. ?


Maybe things have changed in the last 30 years !!
Also passed my test, 3 days after my sixteenth birthday on the Isle of Man,, Then on the ferry, towing a 3 ton trailer to central France,, 
Did get stopped in Devon by a over zealous copper, who did not think i should be driving at 16,, soon saw the error of his ways !!!


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Hmm - maybe whoever told them that was just being over cautious.

So does that mean that as it is legal for a 14yr old to ride a moped in France they could just hop over on a ferry and ride it over here?



> Mopeds
> A moped or scooter of with a of up to 50cc must be registered and have certain certificates displayed:
> 
> * If the driver is between 14 and 16 years of age, they must show the certificate of road safety (brevet de sécurité routière).
> ...


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

oldenstar said:


> Or would the lunacy that used to prevent me as a fully qualified and very experienced PCV driver from driving a relatively small 10 ton truck still prevail?


I believe so Paul. Idiocy I know. :roll:

Jock.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

oldenstar said:


> Or would the lunacy that used to prevent me as a fully qualified and very experienced PCV driver from driving a relatively small 10 ton truck still prevail?
> 
> It is a hypothetical question at present as my van is 3500Kg.
> 
> Paul


Its not the law that stops you driving a 10ton motorhome on a PCV licence, its the DVLA's interpretation of licensing laws. This is from them posted on another site.

_The argument that these vehicles could or should fall within category D has been considered. However, motorhomes are constructed and/or adapted to carry fewer than 8 people plus the driver and therefore do not fall within the definition. Category C would seem to be the only category that the vehicles fall comfortably in_.

So according to them we look like an HGV, we carry goods like an HGV, so we must be an HGV. :roll:

Olley


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Olley,

I think that is the "lunacy" that Paul was referring to, ie, DVLA regs.

Isn't it silly that an individual can be licensed to drive a 74 seater double decker bus towing a trailer (D+E), whilst carrying a precious load, (human life), but is not qualified to drive a refuse truck over 7.5 tonnes. 8O 
Absolutely crazy.

Jock.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

Is it not also crazy that coaches speed limiters are set higher than trucks. :?


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Is it not also crazy that coaches speed limiters are set higher than trucks. :?


Aye Derek, I've often wondered about that myself.

Don't you also think that the 40mph speed limit on a single carriageway for trucks, is somewhat draconian, especially with all the latest safety technology now fitted to modern trucks. 
I find that drivers stuck behind me doing 40mph tend to get very frustrated and take chances. I don't tend to get the same behaviour from them when I am is doing a steady 50mph in the coach.

Jock.


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## oldenstar (Nov 9, 2006)

> Isn't it silly that an individual can be licensed to drive a 74 seater double decker bus towing a trailer (D+E), whilst carrying a precious load, (human life), but is not qualified to drive a refuse truck over 7.5 tonnes.
> Absolutely crazy.
> 
> Jock.


It has always been a bit of a bone of contention with PCV drivers - the theory is that they wanted to prevent a crossover between HGV and PCV drivers. Plus of course the extra revenue from 2 lots of training, tests, licensing etc. :roll:

Yet my PCV licence allowed me to drive the bendy coach which we had at Exeter for some time, and that was 60 feet long and a bit hairy to reverse.

I also find it strange that apparently I can get my licence back simply by taking a medical, although I have not driven PCV's now for 5 years.

Someone mentioned CPC's earlier. Actually I do have a goods vehicle CPC, taken in the late eighties when I thought I might expand my Light Transport business - So presumably that would do although many regs must have changed since then and I probably wouldn't remember any of it anyway.

We do have some strange laws and rules.

Paul


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

Different CPC altogether I'm afraid.
I've got the national and international CPC and my class 1 AND 35 years driving experience but I still will have to be patronised by some wanabee for about 40 hours so I 'know' how to do my job. Laughable if it was not so expensive! :evil:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Different CPC altogether I'm afraid.
> I've got the national and international CPC and my class 1 AND 35 years driving experience but I still will have to be patronised by some wanabee for about 40 hours so I 'know' how to do my job. Laughable if it was not so expensive! :evil:


Hi Derek,

If I can't get an employer to fund my 35 hours Driver CPC training, how much is it going to cost me, please?

Regards,

Jock.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Jock,

Saw an advert for Driver CPC training for £35 per day (7 hours) so 5 times that £175 

You could just do 1 day a year over 5 years to be up to speed.

Check out whether you may be exempt form Driver CPC.

David


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## Tinyk (Mar 18, 2009)

The £35 per day is pretty good, currently i have a number of staff going through what is a pretty good course and paying £50 per day including registration fees.


The crazy thing is, all the discussion about HGV / LGV and if you should be aloud to drive this on that license and why cant you drive this if you have that license and with the new CPC they map them across, so once i have completed my 35 hours structured for my PCV license i will not have to take any further training to keep my LGV class 1 complete.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

b16duv said:


> Jock,
> 
> Saw an advert for Driver CPC training for £35 per day (7 hours) so 5 times that £175
> 
> ...


The driver CPC is a farce as it just passes the buck from the Transport Manager to the driver.
A new trainee driver has to pass an exam, however people like me with an existing HGV licence only have to attend the 5 day course and this can be carried out at 1 day every year until I think September 2014 (2013 for coach drivers from memory)
We have no examination at the end, unlike new trainee drivers and we could if we wanted do the same course every day for 5 days as it is just attendance based.
Works for me though but I am pretty pi**eed of about it as I also have both UK and International Transport management qualifications.

edit,
by the way, it is nvq based and can be government funded for companies


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## Tinyk (Mar 18, 2009)

I think you will find its not NVQ based, training companies just use the NVQ to get funding for the course then Taylor their NVQ to be in-line with the CPC requirements, meaning at the end of it you get both.

I believe NVQ funding has now finished and anyone not signed up by the end of last month has missed the boat on that, the training company we use has now tailored a Btech course to start from September to complete the bits missed and again funding for this has be found under a similar scheme to the NVQ.

I dont understand the funding or the course fully just giving you what information i have been passed.

Kevin


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Tinyk said:


> I think you will find its not NVQ based, training companies just use the NVQ to get funding for the course then Taylor their NVQ to be in-line with the CPC requirements, meaning at the end of it you get both.
> 
> I believe NVQ funding has now finished and anyone not signed up by the end of last month has missed the boat on that, the training company we use has now tailored a Btech course to start from September to complete the bits missed and again funding for this has be found under a similar scheme to the NVQ.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kevin for that, I was only speaking to the training company during this last week, however it was the lady on reception and an appointment was made for our Human Resource Mgr.
Thanks again


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

back to age and provisional licences

1st a provisional licence is only valid in the Country of issue, the EU does not recognise cross border provisional only full licences so you cannot drive in a second country on the provisional licence of the country of issue, all those Irish unaccompanied drivers were illegal.

2nd Mopeds no because they are a special category which are not actually licensed so we don't have to recognise them as being legal here or driveable. Thye are driveable without a licence so 1 above applies to the age question

3rd back to original You can drive in any EU country as a visitor, temporarily, at the age you pass your test in you home country as the full license is recognised even if the country visited has a higher driving age but not if you are a permanent resident So if you live in A driving age 18 and go to B at 17 and pass your test there, you cannot return to A and drive, but you could drive in C, D, e etc. mad!


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

I was speaking today with a motorhome manufacturer who said that he had heard that there is a new law coming out that will allow C1 (car drivers) that had passed their test before 1997 to drive motorhomes of any weight on their C1 license. Has anyone heard anything to validate this one way or another?

Seems unlikely but he said he had several customers quoting this "new rule" and it would affect his business as he built most of their MH's over 7.5tonne. He did say that he had not had time yet to validate the rumour.


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