# Leisure Battery + new question!



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Help needed guys, i can run my leisure battery down in 4 hours! well the TV goes off after that, well the sound stays on and the screen just switches itself off :? i checked the status on the control panel and it was 3 quarters full, enough to run the fridge and lights ect, so i'm running the below, any ideas would be good 

20" LCD 12v
Sat receiver 12v
Trackvision Sat
Fridge ( i forgot to switch to gas :roll: )
2 hab lights

Do you think the batterys had it?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

The wiring between battery and TV is too thin.

Or your battery gauge was telling porkies and your fridge really had been on 12V (unless a compressor fridge it should only be on 12V when the engine is running).

Dave


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> The wiring between battery and TV is too thin.
> 
> Dave


I see, i never thought of that!! so a quick wiring job should sort me out 

That will be the 12v socket we are talking about?


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Fridge*

Hello

I do not think the standard fridge as fitted to your motorhome will work off the leisure battery alone. The internal light of the frge would come on but I doubt the fridge would cool on 12v supply only.....unless maybe it had been deliberately wired so that it would?

Was the fridge actually cooling on just battery power?

Russell


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: Fridge*



Rapide561 said:


> Hello
> 
> I do not think the standard fridge as fitted to your motorhome will work off the leisure battery alone. The internal light of the frge would come on but I doubt the fridge would cool on 12v supply only.....unless maybe it had been deliberately wired so that it would?
> 
> ...


Hi Russell, i'm not sure as i'd just took the van off an electric hook up where it was on, so it was already cool!!!


----------



## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Steve,

Did you ever check out what battery you had?

If it's only an 85ah you're going to need to much bigger ones (at least a couple of 110ah or the 125ah). Make sure they'll fit in the spaces under the seats.

I got a couple of flooded cell leisure batteries from Gates' though you'll probably need sealed/Gel ones if they're under your seats.


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

JQL said:


> Steve,
> 
> Did you ever check out what battery you had?
> 
> If it's only an 85ah you're going to need to much bigger ones (at least a couple of 110ah or the 125ah). Make sure they'll fit in the spaces under the seats.


Hi John, its the 110 and pretty rubbish if i can destroy it in 4 hours!!! i was thinking of getting a Elecsol 220 if mine is damaged, well if it will fit, i've not looked yet ..


----------



## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Looking at what you've got running and adding in the Satellite dish etc. you're probably using about 28amps-ish in 4 hours. So, unless your battery wasn't fully charged, it should be able to do about twice that.


----------



## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Might be time to invest in a Gennie or Efoy.


----------



## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

My TV used to switch off and I had sound only ( I had Sat TV). I was also told the wiring was too thin.

So ever since I have always had a thicker 10 amp cable to the TV 12v socket. Now no problems.

A lot of the motorhomes I have been in have a max 4 amp on the 12v socket! No good when using tv over 4 amps or using sat tv as well.

As I have a 75W solar panel and a battery master I usually have enough input via the solar panel during the day to top up leisure batteries (I have two 110 amps), and the battery master keeps my vehicle battery topped up as well.


----------



## geordie01 (Apr 20, 2006)

i have a 85 ah battery and have never had any probs running tv and sat box and lights ect for a couple of days off hook up. was going to fit another battery when we got the van but after four years i do not think we need it.


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

It was fully charged as i'd left it on hookup for 2 days!! mind the gauge never makes it to the top and i had to top one of the cells up as it was a bit low!!


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Any techs out there? Pretty please!!


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm not sure what your question is now that hasn't already been answered.

Firstly, you need to be sure your fridge is not cooling on 12V with engine off. You claimed it was, but this should not happen.

Secondly, when your picture goes, does everything else work OK on 12V still?

So if YES and YES, then it's what I told you it was. You can check by next time it happens have a separate lead handy from the battery to the TV and substitute that. The picture will return.

Dave


----------



## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

If it's a Dometic/Electrolux fridge running from you leisure battery tht's your problem. Compressor fridges only from leisure batts!


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi Steve

It's almost certainly your TV that's causing the problems. Take a look at the spec plate to see what the current consumption is (or better still use a meter to determine the actual load). Many LCD TVs take 5 amps or more at 12v which is a significant load over 4 hrs. The suggestion by DAB is also good, make sure your wiring to the TV is short and substantial.
In our last van we had an LCD TV which was particularly sensitive to voltage and did exactly the same as yours does (picture goes off as battery voltage decreases). This is due to the way that the backlights work on LCD screens. On a 20" LCD you'll have two (or even 4) backlights which are neon type tubes and require a high AC voltage to power them. On a TV with a 12v DC supply they use two or more inverters to generate this voltage and like the inverters you use for other AC power supplies they have a critical cut-off voltage below which they simply shut dow so when your battery reaches this critical voltage the picture simply goes off.
I don't think there's anything wrong with your battery, just a combination of cold weather combined possibly with poor wiring to the 12v sockets.


----------



## china (Sep 21, 2005)

the screen on my tv used to go off after 2 hours if used on 12 volts even on ehu, if used with the 240 volt transformer plug on the mains or via a 150 watt inverter it works ok 
peter


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> It's almost certainly your TV that's causing the problems. Take a look at the spec plate to see what the current consumption is (or better still use a meter to determine the actual load). Many LCD TVs take 5 amps or more at 12v which is a significant load over 4 hrs. The suggestion by DAB is also good, make sure your wiring to the TV is short and substantial.
> In our last van we had an LCD TV which was particularly sensitive to voltage and did exactly the same as yours does (picture goes off as battery voltage decreases). This is due to the way that the backlights work on LCD screens. On a 20" LCD you'll have two (or even 4) backlights which are neon type tubes and require a high AC voltage to power them. On a TV with a 12v DC supply they use two or more inverters to generate this voltage and like the inverters you use for other AC power supplies they have a critical cut-off voltage below which they simply shut dow so when your battery reaches this critical voltage the picture simply goes off.
> I don't think there's anything wrong with your battery, just a combination of cold weather combined possibly with poor wiring to the 12v sockets.


Excellent, thanks Gaspode, so it wont be the socket wiring, just the way its connected? the TV does indeed use a lot of power!! i have the sat receiver and the tv plugged into a 4 way adapter that could be doing that, i'll take a look.

Thanks again

Steve


----------



## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Rislar said:


> i have the sat receiver and the tv plugged into a 4 way adapter


And I'll take a bet that there's a long wire between the four way adapter and the plug isn't there?

You're suffering from a heavy volt drop like DAB suggested. Take the TV off the 4 way and connect it to the battery via a short run of decent wiring and the TV picture will almost certainly come back on again for another hour.


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Rislar said:
> 
> 
> > i have the sat receiver and the tv plugged into a 4 way adapter
> ...


Cool i'll give it ago, thanks to you both


----------



## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

Steve,

Go to M+D Electrical, they have 30amp cable which is what I used to rewire my electrics for the TV and Digibox.

Also get one of these 12v Regulated PSU.

Between the 2 it has cured my TV power problems.


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

JQL said:


> Steve,
> 
> Go to M+D Electrical, they have 30amp cable which is what I used to rewire my electrics for the TV and Digibox.
> 
> ...


Thanks John, i have a regulator, i will rewire the hole thing, should save me some amps, failing that it will be a better battery as i'm not sure it is at its best, as i left it on charge for 2 days and its never been over 3 quarters full at anytime, according to the control panel gauge!!!

Steve


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Rislar said:
> 
> 
> > i have the sat receiver and the tv plugged into a 4 way adapter
> ...


Hey Gaspode, will i only get another hour from that? i'll need more than that! any suggestions of how to set more power?


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Right guys, i've decided to purchase another leisure battery, and i've a few more questions!! will the batterys need to be together, if so i've not got the room!! can i place one under my passenger seat and keep the other where it is, in the middle of the van? what is needed to get the best perfomance?

Sorry for all the questions..


----------



## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

Yep under the seat is fine- that's where my extra one is. You'll need some nice thick wire to connect them. Strictly speaking it's best practice to have the pos going in on one battery and the neg coming out of the other but connecting them in parallel is ok (I've had 3 vans connected like that and never had any sort of problem).

Just remember the new battery needs to be the same(ish) capacity as the other and if the other is old, bite the bullet and renew both or you'll have a reduced life on the new one.


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Andysam said:


> Yep under the seat is fine- that's where my extra one is. You'll need some nice thick wire to connect them. Strictly speaking it's best practice to have the pos going in on one battery and the neg coming out of the other but connecting them in parallel is ok (I've had 3 vans connected like that and never had any sort of problem).
> 
> Just remember the new battery needs to be the same(ish) capacity as the other and if the other is old, bite the bullet and renew both or you'll have a reduced life on the new one.


Thanks Andy, i was just wondering as the cable to the other battery will be about 10' away, and i didn't want to loose power by using to much cable, i was thinking this will be wired in parallel so i can come from the original battery with an inline fuse and connect the negative straight to the body, thus saving on running unnessary cable, does anyone know the optimum ampage cable for type of install?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Stick a fuse at each end of the cable run, and use as thick a cable as you can - welding cable is good. Then hope for the best. In that situation I'd monitor the performance of each cell if possible.

Dave


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Stick a fuse at each end of the cable run, and use as thick a cable as you can - welding cable is good. Then hope for the best. In that situation I'd monitor the performance of each cell if possible.
> 
> Dave


Thanks dave, what is welded cable?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Rather than me explain, the top Google link for welding cable is:
> TLC Direct <

Dave


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Rather than me explain, the top Google link for welding cable is:
> > TLC Direct <
> 
> Dave


Even better, your a star, cheers Dave i will buy some and update this thread


----------



## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

I suppose one might just invest in a digital multimeter and measure the battery voltage at the battery terminals when the TV goes AWOL and then measure the battery voltage at the place where the TV connects just to prove its cable volt drop or even a cheap high resistance fuse in line. These fuses are far more common than you might think. Quality fuses have a low temperature melting point fuse wire in them, cheap fuses have a bit of thin copper or even steel wire in them which requires a greater temperature to cause them to rupture and hence have a higher resistance.

Go on, get technical use a voltmeter and don,t guess.

C.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Reminds me of Reading Scouts, Clive


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

CliveMott said:


> I suppose one might just invest in a digital multimeter and measure the battery voltage at the battery terminals when the TV goes AWOL and then measure the battery voltage at the place where the TV connects just to prove its cable volt drop or even a cheap high resistance fuse in line. These fuses are far more common than you might think. Quality fuses have a low temperature melting point fuse wire in them, cheap fuses have a bit of thin copper or even steel wire in them which requires a greater temperature to cause them to rupture and hence have a higher resistance.
> 
> Go on, get technical use a voltmeter and don,t guess.
> 
> C.


Hi Clive, i've been reading all of your post, you know your stuff  i posses a multi meter and will check this out, thanks for pointing this out, whats your stance on me adding another battery?


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I think the point is that the advice you have been given, and accepted, suggests your root problem is a voltage drop. Quite by what logic you decide that this is solved by adding another battery we cannot fathom. But that's what you decided so I answered your new question appropriately. It isn't mandatory to accept advice so it's not a problem, just a bit of a puzzle.

Maybe your expression "need more power" explains it all. You've got another battery, so consider your problem, as you understand it, has been solved because you've bought "more power".

Dave


----------



## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Rislar - I should start by pointing out that I'm a complete technical dunce...
but having read this entire post (baby sitting - little else to do :wink: ) I have a more simple solution;
have you considered watching less TV? :lol:


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> I think the point is that the advice you have been given, and accepted, suggests your root problem is a voltage drop. Quite by what logic you decide that this is solved by adding another battery we cannot fathom. But that's what you decided so I answered your new question appropriately. It isn't mandatory to accept advice so it's not a problem, just a bit of a puzzle.
> 
> Maybe your expression "need more power" explains it all. You've got another battery, so consider your problem, as you understand it, has been solved because you've bought "more power".
> 
> Dave


Dave many thanks for you comments and suggestions they have helped, i am a novice to MH lark so my first question was about the amount of power i was getting from 1 battery, and that was answered, i will be checking my levels and running another battery as 4 hours or 5 is just not enough for me and my 4 children, i am grateful for your answers and now i know what to look for i will be able to maximise my power for my needs.

Steve


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

Kelcat said:


> Rislar - I should start by pointing out that I'm a complete technical dunce...
> but having read this entire post (baby sitting - little else to do :wink: ) I have a more simple solution;
> have you considered watching less TV? :lol:


 8O :lol: 
I like to keep the kids entertained, and a late night movie with the better half before bedtime, so 4 hours just wont cut it bud


----------



## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

We have the same problem Rizlar, that is keeping kids supplied with TV.

I have found that different TV's can use very different amounts of power. I have tried 3 and measured the current each one uses. So now when we have no electric I only use the TV which uses the least power.

Our van only has an 85AH battery, using a 12v TV and a 12V pace satelight box as well we can easy get over 10Hours from our battery in the summer. 

So you might need to look at what equipment you are using to help prolong your battery use. From my experience I find that even a 150Watt inverter to power a TV use the battery quite fast.

Richard...


----------



## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

RichardnGill said:


> We have the same problem Rizlar, that is keeping kids supplied with TV.
> 
> I have found that different TV's can use very different amounts of power. I have tried 3 and measured the current each one uses. So now when we have no electric I only use the TV which uses the least power.
> 
> ...


Thanks Richard, i have all the facts now and i'm going to check my wiring, i am hard wired to the battery for the TV, Sat dish and receiver, so i need to measure where i'm loosing power! the only week point is a 4 way adapter for all of the said items! i have a 110ah battery so i'm going to add another to make sure i've enough power  
You'll know what its like i have 2 teenagers and 2 little ones so keeping them entertained without power is a nightmare, that'll teach me :lol:


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well, here's my last word on the subject. It is no different to the first you got in this thread from me. You don't have a power problem; you have a voltage problem.

Dave
Edit: Or put another way "My car is giving absolutely dreadful mpg so I fitted a second fuel tank to give me the range I need"


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I have tried to illustrate what may be happening. These won't be your actual readings but just to give you an idea. I have assumed your meter has one lead connected to battery earth.

Remember the circuit includes the wire going from the TV to earth (the negative lead) and the same current flows in that lead as well.

The Voltages show what might be happening when you draw 5 Amps around a thinly wired circuit I have assumed that the total resistance in the circuit on the way to the TV is only 0.2 Ohms therefore by Ohms law 1 Volt will be dropped.

This is made up (in my made up example) of 0.2V over the cheap fuse and its holder. 0.1V over a dodgy connection and 0.4 and 0.3V over the pieces of wire. There is also 0.3V dropped in the negative lead. (the TV has only 11.2V not the 11.5V measured to earth.

So why is everything else working?

Well first of all volt drop depends on current so items taking little current on a separate fuse will still be 'seeing' 12.5V or very slightly less. In this circuit if your TV only drew 1 Amp then the voltage at the TV would be around 12.3V

Secondly volt drop depends on resistance so if you have low resistance ie thicker wire less voltage will be dropped.

Thirdly not everything is so voltage dependant, a lamp for example will still work at 11.5V it just wont be as bright.


----------



## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Are you using a 12v stabiliser/regulator for the TV? (advisable)
If the battery is still holding a 3/4 charge then I would not think that it is faulty. I would agree with the others and increase the size of your cable.


----------

