# A heads up from a friend



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I heard about an event that any of us could fall foul of so thought it worth passing on.......

bear with me if it has been said before, but a reminder never harms...

A friend of ours was driving through Villeneuve-sur-Lot (not that the name actually matters as I understand the observation is valid throughout France  ).

She crossed traffic lights as they changed to amber, both her and her husband are 100% convinced about that - the lights were NOT red.

As they crossed the space to the road opposite there were two flashes from a camera built into the traffic lights.

2 weeks later a €90 fine and 4 points off her licence dropped through the mailbox.

The photos show the car half way across and just about across and show the lights as red (which by that time is quite possible).

So be warned, do NOT cross if the lights are amber - there appears to be NO tolerance and as she was told - you have to stop and if the person behind runs into you - tough (well the French equivalent of tough!).

No-one is disputing that there may well be a revenue generating exercise in the timing of the two flashes.....  

These cameras are now VERY common at a very large number of traffic lights and, of course, there is no warning on GPS systems.

So just a simple reminder - approach traffic lights with caution and be prepared to stop if it changes to amber - don't assume you will be OK, she wasn't.

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would be very sceptical of their assertion that they crossed the line just as the light changed to amber!!

Cant speak for France but in the UK the cameras do not operate until the lights have been RED for 2 seconds, they then take a picture as you cross the line and another half a second later to show you were not stopping. They ALSO record the vehicle speeds on each image.

So if you are caught in the UK you certainly deserve the fine!!

I would just point out that in France as well as in England a single amber at traffic signals means stop!!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*January*

Went through one in December 2011, Auch.

No ticket, yet.

TM


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## Jumbocruiser (Aug 22, 2010)

I just fitted one of these to my car, it should remove all doubt in instances like that described above.

Not bad for about £60 (not the seller I bough from):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-7-140-D...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4164040ce9










The picture quality is not perfect but but good enough. The GPS tracking and accelerometer functions are useful too.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hypothetical question coming! :wink:

You are in one of those "split second" situations where the lights change at the last instant, and you decide to go on through rather than slam the anchors on and risk being tail ended.

Would you be more likely to get away with it if you leaned gently on the brakes to that your brake lights were showing on the photo _(which presumably would be taken from the rear, or at an oblique rearward angle)._

We have all been there, and sometimes it really is impossible to make a considered decision in such a brief moment of time.

Dave


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## Markt500 (Mar 23, 2010)

Zebedee said:


> Hypothetical question coming! :wink:


Don't think that will work on all levels;

1) You should be driving to anticipate, and be able to stop

2) Cameras either don't photograph you as you were in the right, or do photograph you as you were in the wrong. Case closed in the eyes of the traffic law

3) The law is yes or no really - yes you went through a red light or no you didn't. The magistrate is only after the answer, and probably won't accept mitigation.

The answer is to drive faster, and then you'll be through before the lights change!


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## Skar (Jul 13, 2010)

Zebedee said:


> Hypothetical question coming! :wink:
> 
> You are in one of those "split second" situations where the lights change at the last instant, and you decide to go on through rather than slam the anchors on and risk being tail ended.
> 
> ...


I was in exactly this situation and chose to accelerate and go through at red. I got a summons and wrote a letter of mitigation (heavily laden, could see the road was clear etc.) The Magistrates must have been having a good day as the case was dismissed.

Thank you Brighton!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> I would be very sceptical of their assertion that they crossed the line just as the light changed to amber!!
> 
> Cant speak for France but in the UK the cameras do not operate until the lights have been RED for 2 seconds, they then take a picture as you cross the line and another half a second later to show you were not stopping. They ALSO record the vehicle speeds on each image.
> 
> ...


I am making no assertions about the accuracy of their statements, I was not there but am merely recounting an incident that was told to me by a friend who was obviously upset by it.

Interestingly this is not a unique observation - several French citizens as well as expats have described similar events, they also may, of course, be mistaken with what actually happened.

As you said the UK has a 2 second delay, but I have been unable to find out the delay in French lights, so will not comment either way on that.

My point is simply one to remind all drivers that going through lights is a risky business - not only in tems of points and fines but also in terms of potential collisions.

I totally agree, amber = stop, it is simply not worth risking it, as I was originally told; "if you are approaching lights that are green, preapre to slow down and stop as they are likely to change before you cross them".

That, to me, has always been the most sensible maxim for safe driving, be aware and SLOW DOWN when approaching green lights - NOT speed up "just in case".

Dave


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

www.motoroffence.co.uk/services/traffic-light-offences


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Markt500 said:


> 1) You should be driving to anticipate, and be able to stop


No argument there, but even at a cautious 25mph - if the lights change as you are a few yards from the stop line you have a quick decision to make!! 8O

In the UK the 2 second delay would probably mean you were OK to keep going, but if there isn't a delay in France . . .

Dave 

P.S. Wonder if there's such a thing as a hypothetical fine? :wink: :lol:


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## NeilandDebs (Aug 28, 2008)

*Traffic Lights*

Hello All,

Amber means 'stop if it is safe to do so'. If the lights change to amber just as you approach then it would be unsafe to stop.
However if the car in front of you goes through on amber then you should have more than enough time to stop safely.

Neil


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

Neil that is what amber means in the UK. In France it means stop!


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## Chas17 (May 1, 2005)

MrsW said:


> Neil that is what amber means in the UK. In France it means stop!


The translation from the "code de la route" is actually:-

Green - authorisation to pass after assuring yourself that the junction is clear.

Amber - Compulsory stop, unless to do so cannot be carried out safely

Red - Not permitted to pass, mandatory stop


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Another hypothetical situation.
The van is past the point of seeing the lights but your 'Toad' gets flashed???

Ray.


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