# update on gas tank and thanks to all



## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

got a gas tank of a car for free so i have fitted it to me motorhome and i have linked it into the top of my regulater but it is also the feed form my gas bottle dose any one if i have both bottles open at the same time will one fill the other up :?:


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I hope you are aware that bulk LPG tanks for use in motorhomes for cookers / gas hobs / truma heaters & fridges are VAPOUR take off . . whereas the tanks for powering cars are LIQUID take off - if you use it for the motorhome - wear ear muffs 'cause your going to hear a BIG BANG !
Please seek some detailed advice before you see your van go up in flames 
8O


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

vicdicdoc said:


> I hope you are aware that bulk LPG tanks for use in motorhomes for cookers / gas hobs / truma heaters & fridges are VAPOUR take off . . whereas the tanks for powering cars are LIQUID take off - if you use it for the motorhome - wear ear muffs 'cause your going to hear a BIG BANG !
> Please seek some detailed advice before you see your van go up in flames
> 8O


Thats what I thought.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

I am with you guys. Make sure your insurance is up todate ytank, because you are likely to need it.

Olley


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

i dont get what you meen i have had it going and it was ok more info will be nice 

thanks tank


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Some people do like to live dangerously.

Tell me where you intend to use it, so I can make sure I am far enough away.
No-one with any sense will give you advice on carrying out gas installations on-line. They cannot know if you are competent to carry out gas work, and the fact you need to ask, suggests you are not.

This may sound harsh, but it is for your own, and everyone else's safety!

Better still, get proper professional advice and competent installers to carry out ANY mods to your gas system. 

BE SAFE, use a professional!


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

ytank said:


> i dont get what you meen i have had it going and it was ok more info will be nice
> 
> thanks tank


Would have been better getting the info first. 8O 8O


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

i am sure ill be ok but i have kids so i am going to make some phone calls about it as it ok


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

i have seen loads of tanks fitted to motorhomes so what is the difference from the tanks :?:


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

If you fitted it, and you are not qualified, it is illegal - simple as that!

It may also be potentially dangerous!


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi ytank as has all ready been said domestic installations run of vapour, engines use a liquid feed into the vapouriser.

If you feed the regulator with liquid its likely to allow it through to the low pressure side where it will immediately vapourise, increasing its volume about 250 times, any naked flames, ie hob, fridge will turn into blowlamps, with a very real danger of causing a fire.

Olley


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I would strongly advise you to read Vicdicdoc's post again, and if (as you say) you don't understand what he means, be sure to find out. 8O

*It's no exaggeration to say that your life could depend on it!!* If you get liquid take-off into your van's gas system the explosion will be quite impressive. 8O 8O

Dave


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

so can some one tell me the difference from gasflow bottles that you fill up at the garages as its the same gas is it not :?: but i will add have i have been on the vod and orangae tonight head all over


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi ytank all dometic tanks have a vapour take off, engine propulsion tanks have a liquid take off, they may look the same externally but inside they are not. And yes it is the same gas.

Olley


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

just so i no what you are on about that a car can separate the liquid for the vapours is that right yes or no coz cars dont run on the liquid


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Ok, let's put this in simplistic terms.

LPG in compressed form is a liquid. For it to "gas-off" you need a space in the tank, which must be a minimum of 20% of the total tank capacity. By it's nature it will gas off until it reaches a specific pressure, and fills the space with vapour (gas).

For motorhome use, you use the vapourised (gas), not the liquid to feed the appliances, and the take-off is specifically mounted and designed for this purpose.
As you draw off vapour (gas) you reduce the tank pressure, allowing for further liquid to vapourise into gas, and so on.

The filling mechanism for this type of tank will only allow it to fill to a maximum of 80% of the capacity of the tank.

A tank designed for powering a car engine works differently. For a start, as explained earlier, it draws from a different part of the tank, and draws liquid, not gas. It may not have controls in the filling mechanism to make sure it is only filled to 80%. I am not totally familiar with the operation of a gas tank for the purpose of feeding a car engine, but the design IS different, and probably unsuitable for the purpose you propose to use it for.

I hope this makes it clearer.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Apart from any other consideration, you are certain to have invalidated your insurance! 8O 8O

TR5 said, "_but the design IS different, and probably unsuitable for the purpose you propose to use it for."_

Delete the word "_probably_" and insert "_definitely_".

Dave


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi ytank an LPG propulsion system uses a vapouriser mounted next to the engine, this is fed with liquid LPG and as the name says turns it into vapour, the vapouriser is normally connected into the engines coolant system to provide the heat needed to vaporise the liquid LPG.

Hi TR5 they have the same 80% system as domestic tanks.

Olley


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi Olley

As I said, I'm not overly familiar with the automotive set-up, so I would not be specific in what I stated, when I don't know.

However, the fact remains, an automotive tank is probably not suitable, or as Zebedee stated, "definately" not suitable.

Michael


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

thanks Michael


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Lots of talk of vapour take off etc. I have just been out with my friends and ended up in a big debate about zebras vs pellicans vs tucans. These guys are intelligent and are not to be taken lightly. It suprised me that these really intelligent guys can still get some stuff wrong based on terminology. 

I re-read this thread twice and unless you are familiar with the properties of LPG gas/liquid the terminology may be confusing. Zebedee is correct re probably vs definitely.

Think of it like a cigarette lighter, you know the clear ones where you can see the liquid inside. A motor home uses the lighter the correct way up and uses the vapour off the liquified gas to light your cigarette. However there is not a cat in hells chance that you can use this to power even a hair dryer. In a car the lighter is turned upside down and the liquid gas comes out into the engine.

If you take the tank from an LPG car and turn it upside down it may look the same but there are still differences that impact safety. If you have taken the tank, turned it upside down and made the changes to the feed off etc you will be fine as the actual tank itself is pretty much the same. However if you haven't turned it upside down or replaced all the takeoff equipment you are in for a potentially nasty surprise.

sorry if I simplified it TOO much but this subject is important and if you don't understand how these things work it can be confusing.

Cheers
Karl


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

I see a nomination for the 2009 Darwin Awards coming soon.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

Forklifts use standard bottles But they lie on there side. Same tank, different purpose.


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*lpg tank*

Instead of condemnation here is some helpful advice. STOP using your gas tank until you get it inspected. try contacting www.autogas.co.uk for help I have found them to be most helpful. Any gas fitting has to be either installed by a corgi or gas safe as it is now known or inspected before use. Some info. Most vapour tanks for domestic use on camper vans are red in colour and their are a few silver ones. for road use they are black. Domestic tanks have a 80% auto shut off valve but must be mounted with a minimum ground clearance of 225 mm. not subject to road spray from the wheels and away from the exhaust. require a certificate of conformity, and you must inform your insurance company that you have one fitted.


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*forklifts do not use standard bottles*

Forklifts use a special bottle in the fact that the pickup tube is curved inside the bottle so that when the bottle is on its side the pickup is in the correct place. If you look on the bottom of a forklift bottle it has an arrow to show how the bottle shoud be positioned.


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

Guess I'd better give them back then. :lol: :lol:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Forklifts use standard bottles But they lie on there side. Same tank, different purpose.


No they don't!!! 8O 8O 8O

The bottles might look the same, but internally they are crucially very different.

*Ytank *- please get professional advice from a fully qualified gas technician.

If you heed some of the advice on here, you will be quite literally risking your life - and the lives of anyone else within a good few yards of your van.

Dave

Edit - just saw Weldted's reply. Sorry to repeat the comment, but it is far more serious than some members seem to appreciate. 8O 8O 8O


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

update been on the phone to autogas today and he jive me some advice to take it out. as he said that he has seen loads fitted and also seen the fires by fitting the wrong bottle. he said i was not the first and wont be the last

i am going to get a tank off them as his info was spot on

just one more thing i am just glad that i did not fill it


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for letting us know Tank.   

A very wise move, and another example of how MHF can play such an important role]!  

Dave


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## ytank (Jan 9, 2008)

yes its best to ask i feel a bit of a tit but i will live to tail this time :lol:


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

A gas bottle contains liquid gas at the bottom up to vapour which is at the top. When you use a gas bottle normally you have a gas (vapour) take off at the top and this via the regulator operates your appliance. As you use the gas more of the liquid in the bottle evaporates to make more gas vapour.
Evaporation causes cooling. The liquid gas gets colder. In a motorhome cooking or heating application the amount of cooling is never sufficient to make the liquid cold enough to stop evaporating.
However when the gas is used to run an engine it is used in greater quantities so will cause such cooling that after a short while evaporation will stop - and so will the engine. LPG engine conversions get over this problem by effectively fitting a long pipe inside the tank so that the actual outlet point is at the bottom of the tank in the liquid. The liquid gas is then routed to an external evaporator which is a chamber warmed by the engine cooling water.

Gas tanks for powering vehicles should also be coloured black. (but not always)

Re-fillable gas bottles for fork lift trucks have a take off which goes to one side which when fitted to the truck is at the bottom.

YOUR EX CAR POWERING TANK IS NOT SUITABLE FOR YOUR INTENDED LEISURE USE. It will go B A N G.

I hope that is clear enough.

Use a professional if you do not know what you are doing.

Its is not illegal to do your own gas tank instalation, but if you do it for someone else then that's different and you need to get is formerly tested and aproved by a qualified gas engineer.


C.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Errrmmmm . . . do try to keep up Clive! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-662953.html#662953

And while I'm having a friendly pop at you :lol: this isn't strictly true is it?

_"In a motorhome cooking or heating application the amount of cooling is never sufficient to make the liquid cold enough to stop evaporating."_

A butane bottle will give up the ghost pretty quickly on a cold day - not even down as low as freezing point.

(_Just me being pedantic!_ :roll: :lol: )

Dave


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