# Outandaboutlive



## motoroamin (May 22, 2006)

I know that many of us contribute to more than one forum, but does anyone here contribute to outandaboutlive, the forum run by Warners magazine group?

Somehow it seems, well, different...


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

I have done in the past..but I don't think its moderated  

I felt as if I should be somewhere else 8) 

Geoff


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

I have, but a lot of unmoderated bullying seems to go on over there. Express an opinion if you dare, and prepare to be savaged by the pack.......
8O


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Yes, but not as regularly as I do on this forum. I do find that Dave Newells contributions are very useful. It certainly lacks the camaraderie of mhf.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Yes, but not as regularly as I do on this forum."

You mean you contribute more here, or get savaged more here? 

Dave


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

I used to make the odd post on there,but left because of the same reasons as above.|I stick my beak in there from time to time just to be nosy.  

steve


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

To be honest, I still have a quick look at the topics, to see if there is anything of interest to me, and I must admit I have picked some good tips that I have not seen elsewhere.

I agree Dave Newells contributions are always worth a look, but as a forum, its not for me

Geoff


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## 93716 (May 1, 2005)

not very organized is it :roll: 

its a mess 8O


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

Don't like it at all.

A little clique of snide bar stewards savage most comments.


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

RR said:


> Don't like it at all.
> 
> A little clique of snide bar stewards savage most comments.


The above comment perfectly sums it up IMHO.

It shows what an advantage a subscription forum is. People are not going to spend £10 just to hack people off.


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## ktesis (May 11, 2005)

I also look in and review the topics to see if any interest me. Some do but most don't. I have seen instances where a contributor is savaged or told bluntly to "search before you ask you silly person"
It does not encourage you to contribute. I can remember my RSM telling the junior NCO's "ask any question you like proved it's not a silly one!" No one dared!


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## pepandspice (May 1, 2005)

motoroamin said:


> I know that many of us contribute to more than one forum, but does anyone here contribute to outandaboutlive, the forum run by Warners magazine group?
> 
> Somehow it seems, well, different...


I visit the site now and then but not for very long.
Dawn


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

I read and post there quite regularly and just try to ignore those threads which become a clash of egos, descending into insults. 

One of the things I find most noticeable is how MHF can be up in arms about one thing, but it's barely mentioned on Out and About, and vice versa. For example, the water ingress problem became an all-consuming issue on MHF, and though it was certainly mentioned from time to time on Out and About, it never seemed to garner the same strength of feeling. Conversely, over there at the moment, there's a campaign going on the get Fiat to acknowledge a major problem with the new Ducato juddering in reverse up an incline. The fault is known to have shattered at least one gearbox. On MHF, the juddering in reverse issue just doesn't seem to have taken off in the same way as the water ingress, yet you would have thought the former is potentially far more serious. 

I also read on Out and About of many new Transit owners sharing a common problem with take-off in first gear. Many have experienced stalling, so that their driving technique has had to be radically altered to overcome the problem. This issue was discussed at length, but I don't recall the same fervour of adverse comment here on MHF.

Shaun


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Shaun,

The differences are simply due to the vagaries of which individuals passionately take up which causes, and which site they frequent, rather than any systemic or cultural site-to-site difference.

Dave


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Shark said:


> On MHF, the juddering in reverse issue just doesn't seem to have taken off in the same way as the water ingress, yet you would have thought the former is potentially far more serious.


Indeed, but the difference is that just about everyone on here with the new Ducato has suffered from the effects of scuttlegate. Although a high number of us have experienced the juddering, no one has shattered a gearbox (yet :? ). I don't think I've ever had to reverse up an incline, although I do reverse the van into the garden after each trip, and I do have to bump it up a kerb which puts the van at an angle for a handful of yards, I've not noticed any juddering (which is why I personally haven't made a song and dance about it :wink: )

Gerald


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Which forum*

 Buon giorno tutti,
I take it we are talking about the MMM forum here?
If so, yes, I have a look at it about once a week - morbid curiosity I suppose you'd call it - but have never made a contribution. The style seems very aggresive to me, but you sometimes can pick up a useful point.
I also look at Practical Motorhome, but this seems to have gone offline.
I suppose MHF is a bit like your local bar; you get attached to one, but then pop into another from time to time just for a change.
saluti,
eddied


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Dave and Gerald, I can see how a man with an axe to grind can raise an issue and bring it to the attention of others. So, for a time, there's a bit of interest and related posts bounce back and forth until the subject is worn out. However, some issues don't lie down so easily. To keep the momentum going, there needs to be plenty of other people affected by it - like the water ingress problem. The reverse judder is taken so seriously on Out and About Live that Fiat engineers and testers have been involved. The powers that be claim it's just a 'feature' of the new Ducato. Lower down the foodchain, Fiat mechanics can see there's something badly wrong and readily acknowledge it to the customers who complain. 

The difference between the water ingress problem and the reverse judder is that the former is blindingly obvious, whilst the latter might well go unnoticed. However, at any time on a journey, someone may have to reverse up an incline - possibly for some distance. If the juddering is as severe as has been reported by those who have had to do just that, the concern is, yes, that the gearbox might shatter, but also that your van is now out of warranty.

Those who are doing their utmost to raise the profile of this issue are lobbying Fiat to accept the judder as a design flaw and put it right before warranties begin to expire.

Going back to the purpose of this particular thread, I think it only fair to mention that plenty of posters on Out and About Live take their motorhoming every bit as seriously as us on MHF, and that it's worth keeping an eye on issues there which haven't had such a high profile here.

I was about to buy a Transit based van, until I read all the reports about stalling in first gear. As I'd been driving nothing but automatic cars for the last couple of decades, the thought of stalling like a learner each time I pulled out onto a busy road, put me off more than all the bad press about the Ducato, so I switched allegiances. 

Shaun


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## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

Yes I contribute occasionally but there are some big egos there who love to hijack a subject. It also looks a mess when you log in.
Rather pay a contribution on MHF than get a mess free!


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Good post Shaun. I also like Eddied's quote


> I suppose MHF is a bit like your local bar; you get attached to one, but then pop into another from time to time just for a change.
> saluti,


That just about sums me up.

peedee


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> "Yes, but not as regularly as I do on this forum."
> 
> You mean you contribute more here, or get savaged more here?
> 
> Dave


I certainly do contribute more here! And I have never been savaged either.


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

I am a member of, I think, 4 forums re Motorhomes.

I visit all, but only post on 2.

I don't post on Outandaboutlive anymore, or Touring and Tenting who have a small MH section.

On T&T, most of the threads that run on here would be removed. You cannot mention Brownhills, or any other Company, in anyway other than in a positive manner. I was modded (post removed) because my remarks may have led to "legal action being taken against the site"  

Eddies post

"I suppose MHF is a bit like your local bar; you get attached to one, but then pop into another from time to time just for a change."

That sums me up also

Geoff


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Shark said:


> I was about to buy a Transit based van, until I read all the reports about stalling in first gear. As I'd been driving nothing but automatic cars for the last couple of decades, the thought of stalling like a learner each time I pulled out onto a busy road, put me off more than all the bad press about the Ducato, so I switched allegiances.
> 
> Shaun


Hi mine used to do that, its caused by a light flywheel, and a bit of a fierce clutch, its just part of the efforts by ford and others to make diesels more like petrol engines. You simply give it more rev's than normal and its fine. Took me a few days to get used to it, people just need to adjust their driving style.

Olley


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

I agree with the Bar analogy-same here. Browsed a bit more recently on O and A vis a vis the Juddergate. Don't post though (no time left after doing MHF :lol: )

As has been said the mods here "tidy up" the Posts making the strucute of MHF much more user friendly. Noticed too a lot of "repeat Posts" on O and A .


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Shark said:


> The difference between the water ingress problem and the reverse judder is that the former is blindingly obvious, whilst the latter might well go unnoticed.


This is true. However, if it goes unnoticed, does it exist? As I said, I do have to reverse up an incline, and have not noticed any judder. Others on MHF (JohnsCross for one) have said that they adopt a certain driving style (i.e. don't slip the clutch & let the engine management keep the engine ticking over) and they don't have the problem.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, because it does (according to anecdotal evidence), but I've not experienced it, so it may be that mine doesn't do it. For those for whom it is a problem, they have my sympathy, and I would be hopping mad too, especially if there's a suggestion that it could do some damage.

Oh, and Tel - "juddergate" - love it :lol: :lol:

Gerald


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

geraldandannie said:


> clipped
> 
> Oh, and Tel - "juddergate" - love it :lol: :lol:
> 
> Gerald


first coined on MHF by carolgavin >HERE<


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

In that case- Sorry Carol- didn't mean to breach your Copyright :wink: :lol: :lol: ..... Hadn't noticed yours- honest :lol:


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Gerald, I've added my vote to a poll on Out and About about the judder, to the effect that I don't seem to have it. I can't be sure because I'm not prepared to reverse any distance up a hill to prove the point one way or the other. However, 10 metres up my slope of a drive and it seems OK - but, if I give it welly to get over a couple of humps on the way up (Fiat's advice), I get the serious stench of clutch burn. I've resorted to going up as slowly as possible otherwise I'll soon have no clutch left.

Anyway, from 20 odd pollsters, a mere handful have voted that they didn't experience any judder. Everyone else who had taken the time to reverse up a hill, said they did. Some Fiat mechanics were asked to do the same and they also wobbled.

Like the water ingress, the judder does seem to be a widespread problem, but whether Fiat take any notice, who knows.

Shaun


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Telbell said:


> In that case- Sorry Carol- didn't mean to breach your Copyright :wink: :lol: :lol: ..... Hadn't noticed yours- honest :lol:


Hey hon s'ok I borrowed it from some bloke in america 8) 8) sommat to do with water as well :wink: :wink: :wink: 
It can be applied to many a situation, vis a vis scuttlegate, juddergate, gassinggate etc etc plus it has a certain panache dontcha think :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> the judder does seem to be a widespread problem


"Juddergate" (sorry again Carlogavin :wink: ) does seem more complex even than Scuttlegate, as there seems to be a suggestion that it (or at least the symptoms) can be overcome by driver technique- though obviously those on O and A who feel the most strongly, disagree.

Might be worth following Shaun's example in Posting on the O and A Forum Poll as to whether or not you get the "Judders"

"Juddergate"


> it has a certain panache dontcha think


Definately! :lol:


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Noticed the other day that they are also using 'scuttlegate' on O&A live. It's funny how these things catch on I still laugh everytime I see it written by someone else. So Tel use any 'gate' you wish feel free to coin others at work we have just had 'milkgate'


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

carolgavin

Our (your! :lol: ) fame is spreading!
Have a look at
http://tinyurl.com/2hdjtn
and scroll down a bit!


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Telbell said:


> carolgavin
> 
> Our (your! :lol: ) fame is spreading!
> Have a look at
> ...


Hi Telbell how funny is that. Blast knew we should have copywrited it. Do you think we could get them to add 'used courtesy of motorhomefacts'
First scuttlegate then juddergate, dunno about you but i cannot wait for the next one :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## carolsrig (Jul 12, 2007)

hi,anybody got a link to this forum???


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

carolgavin said:


> Hi Telbell how funny is that. Blast knew we should have copywrited it. Do you think we could get them to add 'used courtesy of motorhomefacts'
> First scuttlegate then juddergate, dunno about you but i cannot wait for the next one :wink: :wink: :wink:


All these _*"gate" posts*_ are blatantly _*latching *_onto your brilliance Carol. They obviously _*a-door*_ your wit and repartee.

I wouldn't take _*a-fence*_ though! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> carolgavin said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Telbell how funny is that. Blast knew we should have copywrited it. Do you think we could get them to add 'used courtesy of motorhomefacts'
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
never been called brilliant before am overcome with emulsion :lol:


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> dunno about you but i cannot wait for the next one


Careful now- you're just asking for a New Post to appear!

Zebedee: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

I think a lot of the contributors are 'special' :wink:


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

ollynfizz said:


> hi,anybody got a link to this forum???


That was a link in Telbell's post 2 above your request.


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## Greggy (Nov 13, 2007)

To address the point of this post I'm fairly new to this and Out and About and I like both.

Shaun I think you make some good points re Out and About, there is strength in numbers.

If I owned a current model Fiat I would go out of my way to find a 1:5 hill and reverse my motor up it till I was totally satisfied it could cope easily, as it should. 

It's all well and good hoping you'll never be faced with that particular situation but surely it's better to find out while you still have a warranty.

I too am surprised that more is not more being made of this issue on this forum (I know it's been discussed) so why not give the threads over there a look and join forces? I say this as one who is currently (and for the last few years) hunting for a replacement camper and until I see Fiat responding positively to those who have this problem, it won't be on a Sevel and I'm also wary of Ford.

Cheers,

Greg.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

I agree with your comments Greg, after all the objectives of both Forums (Fora? :lol: ) are the same are they not?


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

I go in & out on there to have a read through to see what's happoening. As has been said above, some threads seem to take off in different forums, and the involvement of Andy Stothert in the geearbox thread has probably helped it along. 
There was a time when there was some crticism of Brownhills on there & the threads were pulled :roll:


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## motoroamin (May 22, 2006)

Well, I seem to have stirred an interesting debate about gates !

The views raised here echo some of my own observations. One of the things I notice on OAAL is that there is a core of contributors, no doubt knowledgeable, who will literally write up hundreds of words and go into the tiniest detail on any given topic, which actually for me makes it a bit of a yawn.

I wonder if such lengthly posts disuade other contributors who may have short, pertinent points to make.

I have posted on there but it wasn't a particularly pleasant experience, with certain people seeking to pointscore and relentlessly upstage comment with their 'superior' tone.

And BTW, I too have driven the new Ford and stalled it, it just takes some getting used to - thousands of van drivers have. Bear in mind these are commercial vehicle chassis, designed to be thrashed mercilessly everyday and still get up the next morning. Don't be afraid to give it a bit of welly


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

I've just seen a "telling" Post on OAL which convinces me I've done the right thing in subscribing to MHF and restricting my own Posts to this Forum.

I know MHF (occasionally :wink: ) has its detractors but at least we aren't subject to some Higher Authority whereby its strings are pulled by its "Paymasters" and we need to seek permission to make a point which might upset that Authority (yes- I know we've had discussions about OdB but this isn't in the same league :wink: )

Anyway- the salient extract (from Andy Sothert in relation to Juddergate)
is
"I have asked Warners for some more positive support, such as putting a general 'summimg up' of what's happened to everybody as a 'sticky' on the forum, and perhaps writing a factual piece in one of the magazines about the issues involved for readers and consumers, but they have so far declined to assist. "

How this contrasts with the work done by Members/Mods here in consolidating the Fiat/Peugeot Posts

Please note- I'm not criticising individuals here but just the "system" which another Forum has to work to in its honest endeavours to ger a problem more nationally recognised.


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## 110456 (Mar 8, 2008)

motoroamin said:


> I know that many of us contribute to more than one forum, but does anyone here contribute to outandaboutlive, the forum run by Warners magazine group?
> 
> Somehow it seems, well, different...


Hello

I've been a contibuter on Out & about, but now only go there occassionaly.

Some people on there can be a bit terse.

It does seem a little more calmer here, so I've joined. It was "Zebedee" who knew me from the other site that asked me to subscribe, so I did.

Thai


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Relations between so-called Moderators and Posters seem to have worsened over there. There's a Petition going round to try and encourage them to do nothing more controversial than combining 3 threads to make it more convenient but they're refusing! :roll: 

Apparently they rarely contribute to threads. One Poster is now threatening to cancel his subs to MMM due their lack of interest or support on Fiat issues.

"Trouble in 't Mill!"

Aren't we lucky?? :wink:


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

There's more bumps on the Fiat gearbox threads over there than in a maternity hospital. Nobody is taking any notice, though :roll: :x


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Three threads*

It would seem sensible to merge those three threads for clarity if nothing else.

Are the mods on there known publicly or not?

Russell


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> Are the mods on there known publicly or not?


Apparently not. I think their usernames may be "Scarlet Pimpernel" :lol:

Andy Stothert now says


> And does anybody use Motorhomefacts forum, as apparently they don't understand what this is all about, and still can't grasp that Fiat are capable of deliberately concealing a basic design defect.


Yes we do and yes we can!


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

I've put up a post linking our "Base chassis" forum

outandaboutlive


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Nice one Mike!

Did you see this one?:


> Perhaps this is a daft suggestion, but just as a control experiment, maybe some non-Sevel base vehicle owners should try reversing their motorhomes up a steep hill and see what happens?
> Just a thought


Now that's an idea- why didn't someone think of this before?
Any takers?


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

> Now that's an idea- why didn't someone think of this before?
> Any takers?


 Already done it as I tought it might not just be on Fiats etc. But our 2007 Transit 2.2 130bhp fully loaded has no judder in either 1st or reverse. I have tried it on a steep hill and levelling blocks.

Are the Fiats really as bad as it is being made out on O&A?

Richard...


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