# A frames



## dragstar (Jun 26, 2006)

Is there anyone out there who can give me any information regarding the purchase of a braked 'a' frame, there appears to be 2 companies that fit the bill one being Chris Cox the other being Car a Tow.

My question is why the difference on price? is one lighter than the other, is one engineered better than the other, is one easier to use than the other ie to connect and disconnect. What material do they use, at a quick glance they look like a cut down version of a caravan tow bar. 

The Chris Cox model is around £200 cheaper than the Car a Tow yet from the pictures I have seen they pretty much look the same. The choice of vehicle that I have recently purchased, after many months of research for towing, is a 05 Clio Dynamique as this vehicle meets all my needs and is extremely light to tow. Regarding the weight of the car, the van and it being fully laden it is well within its max.
My main problem is that both of these companies are miles away from me one being south the other north so any information you can give me would be welcome.

Parking and more parking has led me down this road. It is a constant nightmare and it appears to be getting worse it is a real pain when you go through some lovely villages and you are forced to park miles away in order to visit and when you do find a car park it either has a barrier or there is no dedicated motorhome slots, or worse you have to park in two car parking spaces and pay two tickets. Then when you get back some idiot has parked so close that you just cant get out,there is no point in having a motorhome and not being able to use it to its full use. Every time you travel to a new location I am sure that the main thing that worries you is parking and as for me I have had enough of it. Hence going down this road I can leave my van in a suitable safe spot and do what I want to do knowing that I have the best alarm money can buy and that I have a tracking device fitted if all else fail. Plus being an ex para I have also other surprises for them if they manage to gain entry. I mean lets face it why would anyone in their right mind buy a motorhome and tow a car unless it was through frustration of not being able to do what you bought the motorhome for to do in the first place. I like most other motorhome owners have invested a great deal of money and like any investment I would like to see a good return and at present I do not think we are.
Reg


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*A Frames*

Hi

Mine was fitted by Chris Cox - and all I can say is I am pleased with the product.

Russell


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

I use a Towtal A frame,Not through choice ,I just happend to drop on that one I think its the most profesionall looking one of the bunch also not the cheapest, a little on the heavy side 
the Chris Cox one is the lightest
You get what you pay for as in every thing 
Geo


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Geo is right you get what you pay for, cheap is by no means always best. I have the Car-A-Tow one as do a lot of other people on this forum. It is very substantially made and well worth the money. If I were you I would ring them and ask why theirs is dearer than the other. Ask for a price for cash  which always dislodges a few cobwebs :wink: :wink: And also tell them where you live and ask who they have fitting them in your area because they now have agents around the country fitting them. Its a small family firm, one brother does the A frames the other does the Solar panels and their mother takes the bookings and does the paperwork. Very nice people and very helpful.


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## des (Aug 13, 2005)

I have one from chris cox. he often arranges collection/delivery. also, the towtal a-frame is unique in that allows reversing without disconnecting the brakes. can't understand why this is not advertised. 

des


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

I have a Chris Cox frame.

He dropped us in town and about 4 hours later picked us up.

He's not just the fitter so feel after sale service will be better IMHO


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

des said:


> I have one from chris cox. he often arranges collection/delivery. also, the towtal a-frame is unique in that allows reversing without disconnecting the brakes. can't understand why this is not advertised.
> 
> des


You can reverse just the same with the Car-A-Tow des, dont have to disconnect anything I often reverse with mine but then Im used to reversing trailers of all sorts which your average driver isnt so gets in a mess. We have a right laugh at some of the antics of people who turn up at our nursery with their 4'x5' box trailers to pick up plants, soon as they go backwards you know they are going to jacknife  They allways end up taking them off and turning round to save embarrasment.


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi All 

I use a CarATow A frame, when I need to reverse the war department holds the steering wheel central to prevent the tow cars wheels from castering (excuse the spelling). Reversing distance has been no problem to date, I must admit I wouldn't like to go through a winding course in reverse though.


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## mrbluesky (Jul 16, 2006)

we use a cox a frame
came with the hymer and 105 pug
works great and folds up for storage
does dragstar mean you like alternative clothing or are you into drag racing ??????????
cheers
drew


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## jdh (Sep 29, 2006)

*a frame*

In my time lve had 2 A frames, both fitted by Towtal of stoke
both have been very good the first was braked(which was a bit heavy) 
the 2nd is unbraked which is a lot lighter although the car l tow is below 
the 750kg l use a brake buddy just to be on the safe side. l have always
thought that you should not try to reverse with a A frame as the steering wheels which are not locked can over steer and end up in the wrong direction causing untold damage. :evil: 
back to the subject in hand the work they do is very good and carried out
on the same day and theres a very good greasy spoon just down the road :lol:


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

A little tip for anybody new to A frames is fit a cheap jockey wheel. This can be a godsend when you end up in a no through road situation especially if your the only driver in the van. Cant understand why the A frame makers dont fit them, theyre under 20 quid and so useful. The holes for the bolts are even on the frames already.


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

dragstar said:


> Is there anyone out there who can give me any information regarding the purchase of a braked 'a' frame, there appears to be 2 companies that fit the bill one being Chris Cox the other being Car a Tow.
> 
> My question is why the difference on price? is one lighter than the other, is one engineered better than the other, is one easier to use than the other ie to connect and disconnect. What material do they use, at a quick glance they look like a cut down version of a caravan tow bar.
> 
> ...


Reg,

You are not too far from Towtal. They did mine for £676.59 in 2005 (£293 for Tow Bar) Braked a-frame fully fitted to Daihatsu Charade. You can stay in their yard overnight with hook-up.

Noel.


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## Evolution (Aug 1, 2005)

Tony,

We have a Car A Tow which is excellent. I am interested in what you say about reversing - surely the brakes on the car will come on automatically if you don't disconnect the brake cable? Do you need someone to hold the steering wheel (as Richard says) or can you manage without? Do you do lessons?


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Evolution said:


> Tony,
> 
> We have a Car A Tow which is excellent. I am interested in what you say about reversing - surely the brakes on the car will come on automatically if you don't disconnect the brake cable? Do you need someone to hold the steering wheel (as Richard says) or can you manage without? Do you do lessons?


No the brakes dont come on the car when you reverse, try it. when you say have somebody hold the wheel. I dont bother, I find I can reverse a fair distance but you must go back in a straight line, as soon as you turn the camper wheel to one side you will lose it in the car. You can try turning the car ignition key off while you reverse if you prefer which will keep the steering lock on the car on but you would still have to keep the camper straight. This sort of manoevre is useful say if you have to back up in a garage to go into a different set of pumps. Another occasion I pulled into a motorway services caravan section then found my exit was blocked so had to reverse back straight enough to be able to get out. I find now after fitting the jockey wheel that its nearly as quick and easy to just drop that and disconnect the towball and drive the car to a new position. Takes seconds and you dont need a second person to hold the tow bar up or have to faff around connecting a bungee to hold it up.
Thing to do is get on a bit of tarmac somewhere off a road and practise for when you need to do it in a hurry.


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

Evolution said:


> Tony,
> 
> We have a Car A Tow which is excellent. I am interested in what you say about reversing - surely the brakes on the car will come on automatically if you don't disconnect the brake cable? Do you need someone to hold the steering wheel (as Richard says) or can you manage without? Do you do lessons?


Seems that the Chris Cox ones do (?) but Car-a-Tow and Towtal do not. On mine (Towtal) from what I can see there is a double piston (one inside the other connected by ratchet) and on FORWARD compression the outer piston operates the brakes via a cam/lever bearing on this piston only. On reversing the ratchet disengages and only the piston not bearing on the cam/lever moves so not pulling the car's brakes on.

Regards,

Noel.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Theres got to be a reason why the chris cox ones are cheaper than the others I suppose. I know there was also an issue that was raised on this forum a year or so ago about something not being right on the chris cox frame, something coming adrift but it would obviously have been put right now so not a worry. 
Whichever A frame anybody chooses it has to be miles better than having a trailer to worry about. I know I was glad to see the back of mine for several reasons mainly stowage & security when not in use on sites and at home. Also I know Im 2-3 miles per gallon better off whilst towing which mounts up over a long trip.


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## Evolution (Aug 1, 2005)

Thanks, Tony and Noel. I'll give it a try. I have reversed a couple of feet but haven't tried any more than that, since I've read extensively elsewhere that you can't reverse an A-Frame, I just took that as gospel. You are right, of course, find a bit of space and practice.


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

> You are not too far from Towtal. They did mine for £676.59 in 2005 (£293 for Tow Bar) Braked a-frame fully fitted to Daihatsu Charade. You can stay in their yard overnight with hook-up.


The hhok-up is 2 amp  
Reversing with a A frame depends on the car?
If the car has power steering I think it would be ok.
No power steering, as with the Smart. Impossible! IMO
Dennis


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## dragstar (Jun 26, 2006)

*a frame*

Thank you all for your replies regarding the purchase of an a frame, judging from the replies there is no clear favourite so I am going to look at them myself and with the information you have given me hopefully I can then make a decision from the three. Those being car a tow, towal, and chris cox.

Message for Drew, regarding his query!!! DRAGSTAR is a custom cruiser the size of the big Harley Davidson fat boy except mine has been further customised and you would hear it well before you saw it. It is dripping in chrome and like the E L O song goes you will be 'blinded by the light' but then you would know that as you are MRBLUESKY and that was also an ELO song.

cheers reg


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## mrbluesky (Jul 16, 2006)

hi reg
what a fantastic choice of wheels !!!
mrbluesky is a reference to us having to look on the bright side when we hurt the motor in our dragster also a cool song
love to see a photo of the bike !!!!!!!!!!!!
will cheer us all up with this crappy weather the wind and rain have just started to assault us yet again on the coast in devon


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## Red_Osprey (May 14, 2006)

*A Frames*

Thanks for your post Noel.
I'm thinking of getting a Smart or similar for my new motorhome due in April.
A trailer would be favourite but as I have no space it would have to be an A-frame.
You have cleared up quite a few questions there.


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## dragstar (Jun 26, 2006)

*a frame*

no problem drew can you pm with your e mail and i will send pics of both the dragstars cheers mat
reg


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## dragstar (Jun 26, 2006)

*a frame*

I to would personaly like to thank Noel and also Geo for there input cheers guys
reg


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

DJP said:


> > You are not too far from Towtal. They did mine for £676.59 in 2005 (£293 for Tow Bar) Braked a-frame fully fitted to Daihatsu Charade. You can stay in their yard overnight with hook-up.
> 
> 
> The hhok-up is 2 amp
> ...


Really more to do with whether the steering *lock* is on or not (NOT for foward tow). My Daihatsu is non powered steering and I can reverse a few yards in a straight line on tarmac/hard surface such as at a diesel pump overun. On a soft surface such as sand/gravel the car wheels would tend to turn at right angles and scuff/wreck the tyres. As Tony Hunt suggests you could engage the steering lock to stop this happening (but unlock before taking off again!).

Noel.


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

TonyHunt said:


> I know there was also an issue that was raised on this forum a year or so ago about something not being right on the chris cox frame, something coming adrift but it would obviously have been put right now so not a worry.
> quote]
> 
> Think you will find it was Towtal, had a problem with an eye bolt breaking, think it was thought shouldered I bolts should have been used.


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

> is non powered steering and I can reverse a few yards in a straight line on tarmac/hard surface such as at a diesel pump overun. On a soft surface such as sand/gravel the car wheels would tend to turn at right angles and scuff/wreck the tyres.


Yes I agree with that, only a few yards if wheels start off dead straight on hard surface.


> As Tony Hunt suggests you could engage the steering lock to stop this happening (but unlock before taking off again!).


The Smart does not have a steering lock. On the odd occasion I have had to reverse any distance or not straight, I just unhitch, move and hook up again.


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## 98452 (Apr 2, 2006)

TonyHunt said:


> A little tip for anybody new to A frames is fit a cheap jockey wheel. This can be a godsend when you end up in a no through road situation especially if your the only driver in the van. Cant understand why the A frame makers dont fit them, theyre under 20 quid and so useful. The holes for the bolts are even on the frames already.


Chris Cox did mine for £25.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Dead easy to do your own. Less than 5 minutes and a good socket or ring spanner and its done. You can get cheap and lightweight jockey wheels in any caravan accesory shop. £15- £20 max


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## Noel (May 1, 2005)

DJP said:


> > You are not too far from Towtal. They did mine for £676.59 in 2005 (£293 for Tow Bar) Braked a-frame fully fitted to Daihatsu Charade. You can stay in their yard overnight with hook-up.
> 
> 
> The hhok-up is 2 amp


Blimey! Only 2amp, did you find that out by turning up your ghetto blaster and blowing their fuse!

Must say my kettle, tele etc. must have been near the knuckle!

Noel.


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