# Battery Master v CBE CSB-2



## rumik

Does anyone know the technical differences between the Van Bitz Battery Master (about £70) and the CBE CSB-2 (about £23 as sold by CAK). They appear to do much the same thing however the costs are drastically different so I've tried to determine which one I need.

From the sketchy technical information available I find that:
Battery Master (BM for short)- when leisure battery voltage exceeds that of vehicle battery by x volts, current up to 1.1 amp flows from the leisure battery to the vehicle battery regardless of whether the leisure battery is being charged.
CBE CSB-2 (CB for short) - when the leisure battery voltage is 13.6 or higher (i.e. a charger is connected), charge between 0.1 and 4 amp is diverted to vehicle battery.

My understanding from this is that as the vehicle battery voltage falls (because of use of the vehicle radio, cigar lighter socket or just self-discharge etc.) the BM will automatically transfer power from the leisure battery to compensate. For a van that is standing idle with no charger attached this increases the time before the vehicle battery becomes so discharged that it cannot start the engine.

The CB on the other hand will only send power to the vehicle battery if the leisure battery is connected to a charger (mains or solar).

Since I plan to fit a solar panel and the van can also be on EHU when at home and idle, it seems to me that I'm better off saving some cash and fitting the CB rather than the BM.

I realise that I may not really know what I'm talking about here so I'd appreciate any useful comments.


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## 93309

Hi rumik
Yes you are right, we have the CBE CSB-2 fitted and with the soler panels as soon as the liesure battery is full it diverts it to the engine battery green light comes on wilst diverting it has been fitted 5 years roughly and never had a flat liesure or engine battery.
Big diference in price though as you say
hope this helps you decied.
veralin


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## eddievanbitz

They are different products really. Battery Master is 100% waterproof and has internal fusing so it can be safely short circuited, as we intended it for DIY installation 8O as well as selling it to dealers so it really had to be simple and bullet proof  

Hard for me to say which will work better with a solar panel as I wouldn't waste my money on a solar panel to be honest, but like every thing else in life that is my opinion based on the way I use power in my van, which is like everything else in my life...excessive!

Both will do the job you want, Battery Master will help in a few more ways I guess (given my understandin of the CAK unit (fine Company BYW)

Hope that helps a bit! 

BTW We often donate Battery Masters to MHFacts for auction for rallies and various good causes, why not wait a while and bag a bargain


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## CliveMott

*CBE*

CBE are an Italian company with a large customer base in the leisure vehicle industry. You will find their kit on top of the range motorhomes like Niesmann Bishcoff etc


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## teemyob

*CSB and Battery Master*

Hello there,

I was about to buy the batterymaster but hesitated at the high cost. Lets face it, you can end up spending a small fortune on things like, HandBrake Extenders, SOG's and Batterymasters.

So I looked around and found the CBE unit as recomended on here by another user. Not bought one yet but Cak Tanks do have them.

CSB2 is now known as a BCM12 (exactly the same item) - cost £22.98 inc VAT

Regards,
Trev.


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## rumik

Thanks to all who've responded. 

I now appreciate that the Battery Master has particular advantages as described by eddievanbitz and so maybe justifies its cost for particular users/applications.

In my case I think that the CBE CSB-2 will meet my requirements.


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## teemyob

*CBE*



rumik said:


> Thanks to all who've responded.
> 
> I now appreciate that the Battery Master has particular advantages as described by eddievanbitz and so maybe justifies its cost for particular users/applications.
> 
> In my case I think that the CBE CSB-2 will meet my requirements.


That is now a BCM12!

:wink:

Trev.


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## rumik

*Re: CBE*



teemyob said:


> rumik said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all who've responded.
> 
> I now appreciate that the Battery Master has particular advantages as described by eddievanbitz and so maybe justifies its cost for particular users/applications.
> 
> In my case I think that the CBE CSB-2 will meet my requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> That is now a BCM12!
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Trev.
Click to expand...

Indeed that is the designation used by CAK in their catalogue but I think that the unit is actually designated CSB-2 by the manufacturers CBE. However since I haven't found anyone else selling the item to the public I'll be buying from CAK (if I can get through on the phone :? ) and it'll certainly then be a BCM12


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## CliveMott

*CHARGING BOTH BATTERIES WHEN MH LAID UP*

Or use the simple technology that YOU can fix if it goes wrong!

www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/BRIDGING FUSE.htm

C.


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## maddie

Thanks Clive for that one I may well get around to doing it,especialy as I have some spare fuses that pop out instead of blowing so you just pop them back and hey presto :lol: 
terry


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## teemyob

*Fuses*

Hello,

Or a keywsitch along side the fuse!

Then if you forget to switch it off, the fuse blows?

Thanks again Clive,
Trev.


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## bubble63

*Re: CSB and Battery Master*



teemyob said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I was about to buy the batterymaster but hesitated at the high cost. Lets face it, you can end up spending a small fortune on things like, HandBrake Extenders, SOG's and Batterymasters.
> 
> So I looked around and found the CBE unit as recomended on here by another user. Not bought one yet but Cak Tanks do have them.
> 
> CSB2 is now known as a BCM12 (exactly the same item) - cost £22.98 inc VAT
> 
> Regards,
> Trev.


hi
found this thread really useful, was about to spend £70 on a battery master, then found this info and bought the £27 cak one.

my system doesn't charge the engine battery, so i needed to charge the engine battery via the leisure battery.

great tips from others including Clive, thanks.

I can find no real difference except the price, both have the same electrical spec both are waterproofed. both look the same, ie box with led and wires, only obvious difference , one is a LOT more money.

have I missed something?

neill
Cambridge


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## dipsticks

If you missed anything I missed it too ! see here too see here


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## Techno100

Battery masters would fly off the shelves if they published pictures of them installed on the most common base vehicles. It's not just the £70 it's the further £50 fitting charge that puts people OFF. Not everyone can understand instruction but they can copy connections from a picture.

Just a thought.


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## eddievanbitz

Techno100 said:


> Battery masters would fly off the shelves if they published pictures of them installed on the most common base vehicles. It's not just the £70 it's the further £50 fitting charge that puts people OFF. Not everyone can understand instruction but they can copy connections from a picture.
> 
> Just a thought.


Truthfully we are not a mail order company, you can't even order one from our web site. We don't want them to fly off the shelves (I am not sure if we even stock them in our own shop)

I designed the thing in about 1994 to stop Strikeback being blamed for causing flat batteries over the long winter months when vans do get laid up for weeks at a time.

We do free installation on BM when in conjunction with Strikeback and always have done. If you twist our arm, we will often do free installation when installed in conjunction with a solar panel.

It is always cheaper to copy some thing after the event, but it will always remain a copy.

I have never made any secret of the fact that you can replicate what battery master does for pennies with a scrap of wire and a old switch (as per my respnse in the 2008 post) it is your and our convenience your paying for!

Yours because it probably will never go wrong and our because it is virtually impossible to break accidentally

There are many products that we use and have made for us we don't retail and some people get very angry but not everything is for sale and not everyone wants to sell everything to everybody!

Cheers

Eddie

:lol:


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## trevor007

I personally am very happy with my Battery masters and there may be other products that do the same job but when you have something that works stick with it.

I would definitely have one fitted again

Trev


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## UncleNorm

I'm VERY happy with the Battery Master.  Our Coral has never had a flat engine battery. We had it fitted free as part of the Vanbitz offer when ordering a Strikeback alarm system.


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## JockandRita

We are very happy with our BCM12 from CAK Tanks, and have never suffered from a flat starter battery since fitting.  We are also very happy with the Strikeback alarm system fitted to our MH, even if it has needed a couple or replacement parts to maintain it's efficiency. :wink: 

Regards,

Jock.


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## DSL2

Chuffed with my battery master & was no trouble to fit. 

It takes all the worry out of leaving the truck unused for weeks on end.


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## kaacee

I had BM fitted in conjunction with Strikeback....found out later it was not required because the Sargent charging system that came already installed in my Augusta did exactly the same thing automatically........


Keith


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## eddievanbitz

kaacee said:


> I had BM fitted in conjunction with Strikeback....found out later it was not required because the Sargent charging system that came already installed in my Augusta did exactly the same thing automatically........
> 
> Keith


Only when hooked up. BM will top your engine battery up from your leisure batteries when the leisure batteries are .75V higher even if no hook up! So will even charge your engine batteries when a solar panel is charging the leisure batteries!

Simples

Eddie


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## rosalan

I am not very confident about fitting or even knowing about equipment like the Battery Master, so when VanBitz explained the function and virtue of the Battery Master, I was delighted.
Yes it was rather expensive! Yes I could (in hindesight) have bought a cheaper version!
Even with this knowledge I would buy Eddies little device again because of his knowledge and understanding of a tried and tested product. I had a look at the simple fitting and passed it over to a local Auto-Electrician who made a better job than I would have done.
My only complaint is in regard to the little light on the Battery Master that goes from red to green when all is well. I can only see it if I lie on my back across the front of the cab unless the driving seat is removed, which can be inconvenient.
Anyway I like to buy Blitish! :lol: 
Alan


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## Zepp

We took our battery master out after we had a flat battery in Portugal and fitted a split solar controller so the engine battery always gets 10% of the solar feed if needed.

We were told by the guys who fitted our battery master that its great if your mh is in storage it will always keep your engine battery topped up from the solar panel or on hook up .


However if you are doing long trips and you are always taking power out of the leisure batteries ie using the 12v system when parked up off hook up , the engine battery will never get charged as the leisure batteries are always taking the power because you always have something switched on .

We did have the battery master checked and it was working ok ……we have 3 x 110 leisure batteries and 210 watts of solar .

The Battery that went flat was only 1 year old , so you have to think how are you going to use your motorhome on hook up or off hookup.


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## eddievanbitz

Zepp said:


> We took our battery master out after we had a flat battery in Portugal and fitted a split solar controller so the engine battery always gets 10% of the solar feed if needed.
> 
> We were told by the guys who fitted our battery master that its great if your mh is in storage it will always keep your engine battery topped up from the solar panel or on hook up .
> 
> However if you are doing long trips and you are always taking power out of the leisure batteries ie using the 12v system when parked up off hook up , the engine battery will never get charged as the leisure batteries are always taking the power because you always have something switched on .
> 
> We did have the battery master checked and it was working ok ……we have 3 x 110 leisure batteries and 210 watts of solar .
> 
> The Battery that went flat was only 1 year old , so you have to think how are you going to use your motorhome on hook up or off hookup.


A good post, but to be fair if your using more power than your making, there will be nothing left over to top up the engine battery. Normally when off hook up the van would be moved every few days so the engine battery would get charged from the engine.

A bit like spending all your wages and being dissapointed that you didn't end up putting some money in the Building Society that month :lol:

Alan, the BM could always be fitted in a place where you can see the LED you know :lol: But to be fair you dont need to see the LED as it is so well built that you just forget it's there after a while.

Tell you what, I am so confident that the BM is bullet proof I will give a LIFETIME WARRANTY to any one who has bought one from Van Bitz (proof of purchase please) and has a fault. If genuine, I will swap it for a new one!

Eddie


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## Mrplodd

Clive

I have a question you may be able to answer??? (as the leccy genius on here that is) 

I have used your brilliant but simple idea of linking starter and leisure batteries whilst parked up at home and the solar panel keeps both topped right up.

However I have not fitted a fuse between the two batteries (long lead and a couple of crocodile clips) 

On a couple of occasions I have forgotten this link cable (its an age thing  ) and started the engine. No melted insulation, no blobs of molten cable etc. Is this because my starter battery has plenty of charge and there is therefore no power being drawn from the (also fully charged) leisure batteries ??


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## Zepp

eddievanbitz said:


> Zepp said:
> 
> 
> 
> We took our battery master out after we had a flat battery in Portugal and fitted a split solar controller so the engine battery always gets 10% of the solar feed if needed.
> 
> We were told by the guys who fitted our battery master that its great if your mh is in storage it will always keep your engine battery topped up from the solar panel or on hook up .
> 
> However if you are doing long trips and you are always taking power out of the leisure batteries ie using the 12v system when parked up off hook up , the engine battery will never get charged as the leisure batteries are always taking the power because you always have something switched on .
> 
> We did have the battery master checked and it was working ok ……we have 3 x 110 leisure batteries and 210 watts of solar .
> 
> The Battery that went flat was only 1 year old , so you have to think how are you going to use your motorhome on hook up or off hookup.
> 
> 
> 
> A good post, but to be fair if your using more power than your making, there will be nothing left over to top up the engine battery. Normally when off hook up the van would be moved every few days so the engine battery would get charged from the engine.
> 
> A bit like spending all your wages and being dissapointed that you didn't end up putting some money in the Building Society that month :lol:
> 
> Alan, the BM could always be fitted in a place where you can see the LED you know :lol: But to be fair you dont need to see the LED as it is so well built that you just forget it's there after a while.
> 
> Tell you what, I am so confident that the BM is bullet proof I will give a LIFETIME WARRANTY to any one who has bought one from Van Bitz (proof of purchase please) and has a fault. If genuine, I will swap it for a new one!
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...

I agree Eddie

I don't have a problem with the battery master infact I sold the one we took off within hours lol , but we did a six month trip and a lot of it was wild camping and when we found a good spot we stayed put for a week or more due to the high cost of diesel .

The point I was making you have to think how you intend to use your van and understand how the product works you intend to buy / fit .

Also when we were wildcamping the tracker is always on and we also used the strikeback alarm …….great bit of kit, so we were always taking from the engine battery but never putting anything back as we did not understand how the bm worked . nobodys fault and nothing wrong with the bm just us being a bit thick lol .

Paul


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## bubble63

Thanks for all the replies..............

but .....
still same question......
anybody............

Why is the battery master £70 and the CAK one £27?

they seem to do the same thing, waterproofed, 3 wires etc, they even look the same.

yes... I do have a degree in electronics before you ask :roll:

I have just fitted the cheaper [!?] version, so i will post an update soon.

regds

neill
double charging in cambridge!


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## eddievanbitz

bubble63 said:


> Thanks for all the replies..............
> 
> but .....
> still same question......
> anybody............
> 
> Why is the battery master £70 and the CAK one £27?
> 
> they seem to do the same thing, waterproofed, 3 wires etc, they even look the same.
> 
> yes... I do have a degree in electronics before you ask :roll:
> 
> I have just fitted the cheaper [!?] version, so i will post an update soon.
> 
> regds
> 
> neill
> double charging in cambridge!


I dunno? Ask CAK

Battery Master is UK made, I have never looked at the spec of CAK's one

Can Anyone tell me the difference between a Swift and a Hymer? both got four wheels, an engine and a roof?

Anyway did you get a lifetime warranty? Eh? Eh? :wink:

Eddie


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## dipsticks

£43 for a lifetime warranty on a £27 item sounds a bit expensive to me though would'nt you say.


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## eddievanbitz

dipsticks said:


> £43 for a lifetime warranty on a £27 item sounds a bit expensive to me though would'nt you say.


Ah but unlike you I am not privy to the cost and quality of the materials used in the CAK unit.

The lifetime warranty was offered to re-inforce the belief that the product is virtually industructable in normal use, due to the features built into it.

However, as I have said several times :roll: if you want to save money a bit of wire and a switch will cost you pennies and achieve the same job.

We are not really concerned about selling loads of the things as a stand alone sale, and the majority are installed free of charge at the same time as Strikeback for £69.95

I guess then that if you can buy a CAK unit and get it installed and now get a lifetime warranty on it for less than £70 you could say that BM is cheaper.

If you are capable of installing it yourself, then why are you buying one anyway as you chould be capable to putting your own system in for next to nothing.

Eddie


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## JockandRita

eddievanbitz said:


> If you are capable of installing it yourself, then why are you buying one anyway as you chould be capable to putting your own system in for next to nothing.
> 
> Eddie


Hi Eddie,

In hindsight, if the solar installer (under previous MH ownership) had wired up the panel into the Elektrobloc charging unit as he should have done, I wouldn't have needed to fit either Clive's device, your BM unit, or the CAK unit.

With Clive's device, I'd be going through blade fuses like no one's business, what with me being a tad forgetful at times. :lol:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## kaacee

eddievanbitz said:


> kaacee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had BM fitted in conjunction with Strikeback</a>....found out later it was not required because the Sargent charging system that came already installed in my Augusta did exactly the same thing automatically........
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> Only when hooked up. BM will top your engine battery up from your leisure batteries when the leisure batteries are .75V higher even if no hook up! So will even charge your engine batteries when a solar panel is charging the leisure batteries!
> 
> Simples
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that did not happen in my case and when reporting this fact, was told, " your vehicle battery must be duff" had it checked out at WCM and it was found to be 100%, that was 7 months ago and have never had a problem since using the Sargent kit albeit yes, it is on EHU

Oh and by the way, the leisure battery was reading 13.8 and the vehicle battery 12, when I attempted to start the vehicle back in February, only to find insufficient power to turn the engine over, so not quite sure where the .75V comes into it.

Keith


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## airstream

*CAK for me*

Hi,
Thanks to Eddie for the info re VFM
I will fit myself and save a few bob so ordered one from CAK
Regards Ray


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## dipsticks

This in an interesting thread on a similar subject usefull to those interested interesting thread


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## bulawayolass

Eddies lot fitted my BM when l got strikeback. I find it just gives me that piece of mind when as not using CB much. 

What light? l didn't know there was a light whats it do tell me that my battery is full or what? Oh well as l didnt know it was there and Eddie says you dont need to see it guess l wont bother with it )

Have had 2 loads of things fitted at Eddies, stikeback, solar & double battery computer thingy. Only problem was turning off the power they deaded the radio which is part of the entertainemt system and l struggle to turn the tv on so no way l could retune the setup first time BH re set it for me & it was only the second time l realised what had happened. Was a tad miffed that l was charged £17 by BHills to retune the radio when it takes the guy less than 2mins he is so used to the job but thats life & if l get any other things l want fitted l am hurtling at a stately snails pace down to Eddies to get it done there and am always pushing his place to M/H l meet. 

It isnt so much what Vanbitz sells that counts yes can get cheaper other places it is the knowledge that they have and happily share that is what counts for me.


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## kaacee

eddievanbitz said:


> kaacee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had BM fitted in conjunction with Strikeback</a>....found out later it was not required because the Sargent charging system that came already installed in my Augusta did exactly the same thing automatically........
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> Only when hooked up. BM will top your engine battery up from your leisure batteries when the leisure batteries are .75V higher even if no hook up! So will even charge your engine batteries when a solar panel is charging the leisure batteries!
> 
> Simples
> 
> Eddie
Click to expand...

Sorry to be picky but, if the leisure battery is not on ECH, and the vehicle is NOT moved for a sustained period, surely the leisure battery will discharge itself sufficiently until, like my issue, no charge can be given to the vehicle battery.

Please explain if I have got this wrong.

Keith


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## JockandRita

kaacee said:


> Sorry to be picky but, if the leisure battery is not on ECH, and the vehicle is NOT moved for a sustained period, surely the leisure battery will discharge itself sufficiently until, like my issue, no charge can be given to the vehicle battery.
> 
> Please explain if I have got this wrong.
> 
> Keith


That is correct Keith, however, if you have solar panels fitted, they will supply a charge to the leisure batteries, and either of the two devices referred to, will then transfer any excess charge over to the starter battery.

HTH,

Jock.


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## kaacee

Thank you Jock, I just couldn't understand Eddie's logic in that Sargent only works on hook up but BM will work permanently even if not on hook up.

In relation to solar, still contemplating pro's and con's with regard to cost/return etc.etc.

Keith


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## JockandRita

kaacee said:


> Thank you Jock, I just couldn't understand Eddie's logic in that Sargent only works on hook up but BM will work permanently even if not on hook up.
> 
> In relation to solar, still contemplating pro's and con's with regard to cost/return etc.etc.
> 
> Keith


Hi Keith,

If you do a lot of meets, rallies, Aires, Stellplatz, or wild camping, then the solars come into their own, but if most of your MH use is on camp sites with hook up, don't waste you money on panels. :wink:

Regards,

Jock.


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## Techno100

If you buy a 2K Honda it will set you back £1050 upwards plus running cost and maintenance. For under a grand you could have 240watt of solar and no petrol can :lol:

The solars work quietly and automatically with any reasonable daylight. 
A generator has to be lugged about fed and pampered. AND locked up to avoid opportunist theft


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## bubble63

hi all

an update!!

fitted the CBS csb2 battery to batery charger and am delighted with the results.

the single 80w solar panel charges the 110ah leisure battery as before, but now the Cbe unit sends the excess to the cab 

very chuffed for £27 



neill
fully charged in Cambridge


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## airstream

*Roadpro?*

Hi
RoadPro do one - Votronic Standby Battery Charger - C8541 @ £29.99 
charges at up to 2 amps

Why pay £60+

Regards Ray


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## eddievanbitz

Cheapest way is Clive wire and a fuse! Pennies :wink: 

Eddie


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## Techno100

Seems to me that there is more than a price difference?
If I read it all correctly, BM sends charge to the starter battery while ever it is half a volt below the leisure battery whilst the CBE only charges the engine battery once the leisure battery has acheived 13.6volts?
The other difference being the charge rates of 1.1amp for BM but up to 4amps with CBE.

I think if you have no hook up or solar the BM is the way to go.

For solar the CBE


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## JockandRita

Techno100 said:


> I think if you have no hook up or solar the BM is the way to go.
> For solar the CBE


I'm no studied, nor time served techie *Andy*, but that is how I came to view it, (with the help and guidance of DABs).
The CAK Tanks CBE unit has been, (and still is) a wee godsend for us. 

Cheers,

Jock.


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## Techno100

I'm going to order 3 tomorrow Jock and add it to fitting options for solar customers. see you at New year meet 8)


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## JockandRita

Techno100 said:


> I'm going to order 3 tomorrow Jock and add it to fitting options for solar customers.


A nice wee option to finish the job off properly Andy, especially if they haven't got the solar option built into their charging unit.



Techno100 said:


> see you at New year meet 8)


Will do. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## divil

I still have a CAK tanks CSB2 for sale..new and unused...I bought it then decided to add a seperate charger for my vehicle battery instead.

First £16 including postage secures...or you can collect from near Gatley near Stockport for £14.

Cheers

Paul


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## Techno100

It's also occurred to me that you could use a crossover switch for when in storage to change the priorities


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## Techno100

divil said:


> I still have a CAK tanks CSB2 for sale..new and unused...I bought it then decided to add a seperate charger for my vehicle battery instead.
> 
> First £16 including postage secures...or you can collect from near Gatley near Stockport for £14.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul


Yes I'll take it Paul!


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## divil

Sold to Techno....cheers


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## Techno100

Sent you a pm Paul


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## JockandRita

Techno100 said:


> Yes I'll take it Paul!


12 minutes Andy? A wee bit slow on the uptake there, eh? :lol:

Is Whistlinggypsy Bob having one? :wink:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## Techno100

I took it as soon as I read it, time flies when you're viewing 4 forums :lol: 
It's too cheap for Bobski :lol: :lol:


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## JockandRita

Techno100 said:


> It's too cheap for Bobski :lol: :lol:


 :lol:

Jock.


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## Techno100

well that was a handy purchase from Paul thank you. CAK tanks are doing a stock take so no goods will be shipped before next Tuesday


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## divil

All packed up and posting on my way to work around 11am.


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## Techno100

Fitted and working a treat  Simple to splice it in to the Brown/green engine and Brown/blue hab battery cables behind the distribution panel









Also increased to 6mm from regulator to batteries and getting a decent charge today.
Normally the charge would be a trickle but as it is now charging the cab battery it is giving its best (winter cloud)


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## divil

Nice one


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## namder

I'm interested in purchasing a CAK Tanks version to complement my solar panel but unsure how I would connect into my system. I have a 2010 Autotrail apache on a Fiat X250 chassis. 2x110 battery + 80w panel.

John


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## Techno100

Have you one of these?
http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC325_User_Instructions.pdf


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## namder

The unit fitted to mine is a 225. 

John


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## Techno100

pretty much same http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC225 User Instructions Issue 02.pdf

section 6.5 terminals 1 2 3 or 4 5 6


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## namder

Thanks, will the instructions with the unit give me a step by step idiots guide to connecting up.


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## Techno100

Errrrrrr..........yes :lol: 
There are only 3 wires
Whether you use a battery master or a CBE the connections are the same


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## namder

Thanks for your guidance, I had visions of connecting to both batteries with wires running around the van.LOL

John


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## Techno100

namder said:


> Thanks for your guidance, I had visions of connecting to both batteries with wires running around the van.LOL
> 
> John


Some people actually do that :lol:


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## rosalan

If you end up with a Battery Master (as I did), make sure that it is visible. There is a light on it which is red or green (if all is ok!). I did not spot this until it was fitted under the drivers seat; I can of course see the little light but in that position I get light headed and dizzy.
Alan


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## Techno100

The CBE is the same but to be honest you forget its there, it just gets on with it so might as well be where it fits conveniently within the confines of its supplied cable length


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## namder

Techno100 said:


> Errrrrrr..........yes :lol:
> There are only 3 wires
> Whether you use a battery master or a CBE the connections are the same


I've received my CSB-2 battery charge manager and now need to know the best location for the earth connection. I haven't had the cover off the PSU yet so maybe it will be obvious when I do remove it but there is no indication in the PSU manual.

Interesting though that I asked the question of Sergent Electrical and they wouldn't tell me because they don't advise the fitting of these stating they could interfere with the charging unit.

Another interesting point, CAK had none in stock so I searched the internet and Southdowns had them in stock £10 cheaper. CAK £30.50, Southdowns £19.95

John


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## wobby

eddievanbitz said:


> They are different products really. Battery Master is 100% waterproof and has internal fusing so it can be safely short circuited, as we intended it for DIY installation 8O as well as selling it to dealers so it really had to be simple and bullet proof
> 
> Hard for me to say which will work better with a solar panel as I wouldn't waste my money on a solar panel to be honest, but like every thing else in life that is my opinion based on the way I use power in my van, which is like everything else in my life...excessive!
> 
> Both will do the job you want, Battery Master will help in a few more ways I guess (given my understandin of the CAK unit (fine Company BYW)
> _---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I don't agree with you on solar panels being a waste of money, you fitted two to my van. We have stayed in the new forest for 10 days without hookup and never run the leisure battery down.
> 
> However we did flatten the engine battery by useing the radio all day. The battery master wasn't up to replacing the power drain of the radio.
> I should have realised that? However the Pioneer radio satnav system had been wired to the engine and not the leisure battery, something I must get altered so that doesn't happen again.


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## Techno100

People seem a little confused about earth and negative? same thing.
The connections as previously stated were 123 or 456 3 & 6 being battery negative orange/white. I believe inside the panel it is just white.
Put yourself in Sargent's position and you would not advise anyone to open up your kit and attach additional wiring? in any event down the road if something failed in their excellent panel they don't want you turning around and saying BUT YOU SAID DO THIS that or the other.
Whether you connect there or at the split charge relay as per battery master instructions the result is the same and if Sargent say it may upset the charger you have to take account of that but personally I doubt it.
Whatever you do it is your decision ultimately and your responsibility unless you pay someone else to install it


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## namder

Thanks Techno, you've put the final piece in my jigsaw. I did understand Sergents position.


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## devjb

Sorry to start this again but, but can someone clarify my thoughts 

The CBE CSB-2 starts to divert charge from from the leisure battery to the starter battery when the leisure battery voltage exceeds 13.6 volts. A fully charged, the leisure battery will measure 12.6 volt

The solar regulator will only charge the leisure battery (ie produce 13.6 volts or more at it) when the leisure battery needs charging. ie its voltage is less than 12.6 volts 

If you can have a full leisure battery, the solar charger stops sending charge to it. How is the starter battery charged? 

Do you need to partly empty the leisure battery, to prompt the solar charger and CBE CSB-2 to divert charge to the starter battery?


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## bubble63

hi

nice voltage talk...........

but .....

Q Do you need to partly empty the leisure battery, to prompt the solar charger and CBE CSB-2 to divert charge to the starter battery?

A no

the cbe unit send a charge across [closes a relay and limits charge current] when the leisure battery is charged , it stays connected while the les. batt. remains charged, when the leisure battery charge drops from fully charged. it will drop the eng. batt. off

it works.

now your voltage observations are almost correct.

except, a working solar charger should produce over 12.6 v

when on a hook up same rule applies, the les. batt will be charged at aprox 13.5v allowing the 'relay' to close and dual charging commence

why the battery master is so expensive remains a mystery

My cbe unit has been fitted for a while now and it works just great!

get one fitted and forget it 

regds neill
charged up in cambridge


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## devjb

Thanks for such a quick response. That makes sense now. I have a CBE CSB-2 on order


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## Techno100

Most solar regulators will supply a float charge of 13.6 volts and thus trigger the cbe unit. A fully charged battery OFF charge will display 12.6 volts or a little over so when the sun goes down and your leisure drops to 12.6 the cbe will stop transferring charge and continue when the sun is out to play again


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## Techno100

Be quick! 2 left
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230597671...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_3359wt_1159


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## namder

I have purchased a CSB-2 battery manager and like a previous member, have found it difficult to find an auto electrician keen to solder it into the charging system as they don't appear to understand what they are connecting. I can't trust my own abilities at soldering and thought of just snipping the wires and reconnect through a 30 amp terminal block. Any problems with this solution?

Namder


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## Techno100

Soldering is quite difficult without a VERY HOT iron. The relevant battery cables concerned with the split charge relay and van 12 volt distribution are quite thick so it needs very high heat within seconds or it will just be a dry joint.
Have you considered using piggy back crimps at the split charge relay? it really makes no difference whether you can see the unit or not.

Or consider 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/blue-Spad...Technology&hash=item3efaf50ae0#ht_2681wt_1392
and for the device wires
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-3mm-RED...Supplies_ET&hash=item3f135e8e4c#ht_500wt_1413

Use yellow crimps in the first example if the wiring is bigger than 2.5mm

please use a PROPER ratchet crimping tool :lol:


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## namder

Techno 100 - thanks. I've looked at piggy back crimps but think for me the terminal blocks would be simpler, snipping the wires a couple of inches from the PSU and joining in the CSB unit. I also don't know where my split charge relay is situated in the van. (Autotrail Apache 725)

Namder


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## Techno100

Ok but beware its very easy to get a poor connection with a thick and a thin wire in a screw terminal, best to create a spur off the connector to joint the smaller wire.
Split charge relay is most likely near your starter battery


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## namder

Tecno 100 - Would 3 way connectors overcome this problem of differing gauge wires?

Namder


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## Techno100

Yes I think, have you got a link to one?


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## namder

Thanks again, yes I would appreciate a link to a suitable one.

Namder


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## Techno100

I meant have you got a link :lol:

But a quick search revealed this :thumbup:
Just double over the end of the smaller wire
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-WAGO...Fittings_MJ&hash=item2c6283cc32#ht_605wt_1135

EDIT
Ideally tin the bared end of the doubled over thin wire


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## Techno100

Thanks for your input "necessity is the mother of invention" they're so good I bought some myself :lol:


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## namder

Techno 100 - Sorry for the misunderstanding. I had spotted these on Ebay but wasn't sure if they would be robust enough. I will now go and order a pack.

Thanks - Namder


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## Techno100

namder said:


> Techno 100 - Sorry for the misunderstanding. I had spotted these on Ebay but wasn't sure if they would be robust enough. I will now go and order a pack.
> 
> Thanks - Namder


32amp rated :thumbup:
your battery wires will be fused at 20amp anyway so :thumbup:
0.8mm to 4mm flex compatible :thumbup:
Perfick


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## Techno100

relisted a little dearer but still much cheaper than CAK tanks
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLAR-WIN...ccessories&hash=item35b964c6d0#ht_3359wt_1159


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## NormanB

This is really a question for Techno or one the other qualified people.

I've read the whole of this thread (and others) and worked out that I need a BCM12 or CSB2-type thingy to route the excess charge from my solar panel to my vehicle battery, after the leisure batteries have had first go. This would keep my vehicle battery charged whilst in winter storage.

The van (Laika) has a system which charges the leisure batteries whilst on EHU and, if they have received enough charge, it goes on to charge the vehicle battery. (There is an in-built prioritisation in favour of leisure batteries.)

It would appear from something Techno implied that there may be no need to connect the BCM12 literally ie one connection to leisure battery positive, *one to vehicle battery positive *and one to earth?

Can the connection to the vehicle battery be via the existing (non-fridge) split charge relay connector labelled 30? This might avoid a long run of wire through the bulkhead to a positive battery connection which is already overloaded with connectors in a very tight place.

If this is not the correct connection to use for the BCM12 "vehicle positive wire", is there likely to be another that might save running a separate wire through to the engine battery?

I wish I understood these things better!


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## DABurleigh

Yes, the best place to connect such a vehicle battery top-up device is AT the vehicle's split-charge relay, as all the wires you need to connect are there. No other wires are needed.

Dave


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## Techno100

Yes as Dave said or in my case behind my Autocruise control panel (2004)as it has a battery selector switch


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## spatz1

I dont get this thread >
unless you re hell bent on keeping an mppt controller in use with panels that seems pointless considering a tilt of the panels will outperform that by miles.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260846095659?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

why not just use one of these as you have more control and the price is compatable > and you ll always have something going into the cab battery if you dont reach the point that device clicks on to charge when the van is in use ????

You could even sell your solar regulator in use and replace it and find it costs you nothing :wink: :wink: :wink:

I recently found my 12v morning star controlling 140w wasnt cutting off correctly so it just seemed logical to fit the controller above as it does both batteries and sell the morning star as not working ....


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## NormanB

Thank you Techno and DAB - that is good news as the split charge relay is very close to the leisure batteries. 

(You don't specifically mention the "30" connector on the split charge relay being the correct way to link to the vehicle battery though?)


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## DABurleigh

Yes.

http://www.motts.org/SPLIT CHARGING SYSTEM.htm

Dave


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## Techno100

On the french chassis it is usually a Brown/blue and a brown/green pair of wires you are looking for. If you look at your leisure battery terminals you will see only one of them so it will confirm whether it is the blue or the green stripe that does one and by elimination the other will be the engine battery wire.


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## namder

Techno 100 gave me some good advice on here recently re fitting a CBE directly to my EC225. I haven't fitted it yet but I think I have plucked up enough courage to snip the wires to my PSU and wonder if I need to be concerned about any possible related problems like losing the radio code. Do I need to disconnect the batteries before snipping? 
Any final advice will be appreciated before I get the snippers out tomorrow?


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## FoweyBoy

I have fitted a CBE CSB2 - I have a solar panel. I was able to scotch lock onto fused positive and negative (earth) wires from the leisure battery under the driver's seat to a cigarette lighter type socket I had fitted there.

Using a "Add A Circuit Fuse Tap Piggy Back Standard Blade Fuse Holder ATO ATC 12v 24v" device from Ebay (link below) I was able to connect to the vehicle battery positive supplying the split charge relay located under the driver's seat WITHOUT having to modify or scotch lock the existing wiring.

There are 3 fuses in a block attached to the pair of relays under the driver's seat in my Autosleepers Nuevo and one of them fuses the vehicle battery supply. The Ebay item just slots into the fuse socket and takes the original fuse plus an additional one for the positive feed to the CSB2 unit via an attached wire spur with a crimp connector (see photo on Ebay).

I put a cable tie on to the secure the device, having had one of the relays come loose (now also cable tied!) resulting in a complete loss of 12v supply on the first night in France of a 5 week trip!

When I first connected up the unit it got quite hot to touch. I assumed that the vehicle battery was demanding the full 4amp output from the CSB2. Later in the day it had cooled down - presumably as the current reduced.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170709632...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1552wt_1255


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## Techno100

Any pics?


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## FoweyBoy

A couple of pics especially for Techno100 as he is so helpful on here.

Assuming the pictures appear (my first attempt at pics in a reply) you can see (second pic) the CSB2 on the left, a fuse block in the middle (solar panel and socket), and on the right the relays and small fuse block with the Ebay device attached (first pic).

Hope this helps.


PS. You will note I have fused both the positive and the negative to ease connections with the solar panel and socket. I trust this is not a problem, and only considered "overkill"!


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## swiftDuc51

*CBE-BCM12*

Have a look at the Southdowns site for this product. In portsmouth, they are friendly and very helpful.


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## Techno100

Are they as cheap as £21.99 delivered ?


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## Techno100

BTW BCM12 is Cak tanks catalogue reference. The unit is actually as the thread title
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111318856754?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## FoweyBoy

My CBE BCM12 started to buzz and seemed to be on all the time. I assumed it was faulty and did not want an electrical fire onboard so changed it for Votronic standby charger ( http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/solar_panels.htm) (also listed on Roadpro but not in stock). It was dearer than the BCM12 at £31.95 plus postage. It had no negative connection, only positives from leisure to starter batteries, which seemed odd, but I can only assume it works okay. No led light as on BCM12 to indicate its working but starter battery voltage increased when it was connected. Only 2amp output so just trickle charging.


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## Techno100

Mine has been on this van 16 months and is on nearly evey hour of daylight as my inverter batteries are almost always fully charged and so it sends the surplus to my Hab batteries. It is warm to the touch but silent.


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## organplayer

*organplayer*

Wow. What a lot of information, even if most of it is way above my limited brain power. My rather basic question is where the solar system is fixed to charge both l/battery and engine battery, is there a need to fit a Battery to Battery charger as well to ensure that the engine battery still gets a trickle charge when on hook up, during the hours of darkness. Or will the power from the hook up to the l/battery drip into the engine battery through the solar wiring. The folk on this site certainly are a knowledgeable lot.


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## Techno100

No you don't need anything else


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## ajpepe72

Resurrecting an old thread here 
I have just come across these cbe thingymebobs and it sounds just what I'm after.
My camper has a standard split charge relay in the engine bay, leisure batteries are at the very rear of the vehicle and these are charged by split charge/ 100w solar with mppt regulator and hard wired mains charger. During the winter the leisures are always full but starter battery drains due to alarm etc.
My question is for ease of installation,can this be installed right next to my split charge relay and just piggy backed onto either side of the relay (starter and leisure positive cables) or does it need fitting to the solar regulator to battery cable and separate cable then run to starter battery?


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## lgbzone

I don't see why not so long as when the leisure batteries are being charged (ehu, solar) the voltage on the leisure battery side of the relay raises, and i can't think of why it wouldn't.

the charging of the target battery from the source battery is activated and deactivated by the leisure (source) voltage. so in my opinion it is preferable to install as close to the target (engine) battery as possible, which is largely what you are doing. my reasoning being; as your leisure battery is far away, the charger may activate slightly later and deactivate slightly earlier due to voltage drop, however this means the engine battery will always receive the correct charge voltage from the charger as they are close and won't suffer any voltage drop. if you installed next to the leisure battery, in the rear of the van, it may start charging slightly earlier and stop charging slightly later, but there is potential for the charge voltage from the charger to the engine battery to drop slightly, meaning the battery being charged may actually be receiving slightly less than the correct charge voltage all the time. i know in reality it will likely never make a difference but i think the theory is sound, so that's what i do.

hope this helps
Lee


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## lgbzone

i meant to add; the csb may look like its plastic case is open to the elements, it isn't, when you look in the rear of it all the electrics are totally encased in something similar to silicone but stiffer in consistency, there isn't any fear of grime or water etc entering the electronics of the device so it would be happy under the bonnet.

Lee


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## ajpepe72

Thanks for that, makes sense and all lives on leisure side are essentially all connected together anyway,back to the battery.
I have next to nothing voltage drop wise from leisure battery to split relay as its all been done in 16mmsq cabling.
I was toying with replacing my perfectly good mppt solar regulator for a dual output one to trickle charge the starter battery but then stumbled across this device which seems a better option as its cheaper and will also work via the mains charger when the on hook up.


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## lgbzone

ajpepe72 said:


> Thanks for that, makes sense and all lives on leisure side are essentially all connected together anyway,back to the battery.
> I have next to nothing voltage drop wise from leisure battery to split relay as its all been done in 16mmsq cabling.
> I was toying with replacing my perfectly good mppt solar regulator for a dual output one to trickle charge the starter battery but then stumbled across this device which seems a better option as its cheaper and will also work via the mains charger when the on hook up.


:thumbleft:

sounds good

i've had a few off these guys and they currently have one left at £22.99

< ebay link >


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## ajpepe72

Just ordered one from rps leisure 21.99 delivered 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121946837453&globalID=EBAY-GB


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