# What is the life of a leisure battery?



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

How long would you say is the effective life of a leisure battery? Assuming that it is never fully discharged and is promptly charged after use. 

I have 3 X 100AH ones that are now just over 4 years old and are used on average say 6 months of the year. Trickle charged by solar.

I’m very aware that batteries (like our faculties as we get older  ) can deteriorate imperceptibly. Unlike our faculties we can go back to 100% with batteries. When would the experts change them?

Dick


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Can we assume that you have gel batteries in your van? If so you might well have several more years yet. With a big battery bank like yours it will probably be more difficult to ascertain when their capacity starts to decrease.

Kev


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

A proper leisure battery, one designed for deep cycle use like the Banner or Varta semi-traction type can last for eight years. We do a lot of off hook-up parking at aires and CC rallies so they got plenty of use.

Last September I replaced a pair of Varta semi-traction which were original equipment when the vehicle was deliverer in June 2005. Only one had died at that point but as recommended I replaced both, I chose Banner Energy Bulls.


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Our 2 165 amp batteries are 8 years old and in good condition, the engine battery is also the original.


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## Yaxley (Jul 25, 2008)

I have a 01st March 2006 registered Hobby.
I have 3 x 110 AH leisure batteries the originals which were replaced last year. So they were at least 7years old. I noticed that they were not holding the charge for as long as previously and felt I had got my money's worth. The solar panel keeps them charged during the winter.
The original engine battery is still going strong probably manufactured in late 2005. 
Ian


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

"What is the life of a battery?"

My immediate thoughts were:

Pretty boring really.

Run down and a bit flat sometimes.

Other times fully charged and ready for anything.

Just like humans - occasionally letting out a bit of gas.

:lol:


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

When I sold my '05 van it still had the original leisure battery but engine battery failed two years ago. I have a '55 SLK with the original battery ie 9 years old!!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

If they are treated well and not discharged too much for too long, then they will last a long time !!

Like most things in life, if you dont look after them they dont last.

One of the best things to prolong their life is to fit a Solar panel as that will (except in the depths of winter) keep your LB's fully charged all the time.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

The reason that I asked was what I read on this seemingly authoritative site aimed at US RV users, It suggests a fully useful life of up to 48 months for a leisure battery.

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

Dick


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Glandwr said:


> The reason that I asked was what I read on this seemingly authoritative site aimed at US RV users, It suggests a fully useful life of up to 48 months for a leisure battery.
> 
> http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html
> 
> Dick


This article is written buy someone trying to sell battery maintenance products and should be taken with a pinch of salt.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Industrially, the life of a battery is that point in its life where its capacity falls to 80% of the new value.

For most leisure users, very few actually use all of the available capacity and just skim the top 15% or so, or even less.

If you have 8amps load current in the evening and no EHU or solar (which would be off anyway) and you used it for 4 hours, that's a nominal 32AH.

Take that out of 220AH (2 X 110AH) and you can see where I am coming from.

We have three 55AH batteries, one on its own for the engine winch in the back, and two in parallel for the habitation stuff.

I doubt we use more than 10AH per evening, so in practice 110AH is well over the top for us.

Peter


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dick

I have learnt from the combined knowledge and experience of all those who have good experience of battery technology, charging systems and usage is that the prime consideration is to keep them as near to 100% top-up and preferably above 80%.

How you do that, whether EHU, solar panel, B2B charger etc. depends on the MH usage, storage, and sunshine/angle.

We rely on EHU at home, but never when away so I fitted a B2B charger. My reasoning is that we can only go away for about 3 weeks so are on the move at least every other day. If later we are away for longer and further South I may add a solar panel so we can stay in one place.

Method of charging is personal to one's use of MH - keeping batteries charged seems to be secret to life - and happiness   

Geoff


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

The element that doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is cycles...
Every battery is rated for a number of "cycles" and when it has completed its due number, the battery is likely to start to fail.
The problem is that manufacturers are reluctant to publicise their products' cycles and they vary from 150 to 1,000 - you would be lucky to get one more than 500 in reality.
What is a cycle? If you discharge a battery from fully charged to about 75% and then recharge it - that is one cycle. Take it down to 90% and recharge it and that is 0.4 of a cycle.
Let us take a battery being half discharged daily (ie. down to about 12% each night and then recharged the following day)
Let us assume that the battery is good for 250 cycles. That battery should be changed after 500 days or less than 18 months.
A 150 cycle battery (we once bought them and took them to Dave Newell who pointed out that they were well over their life span) would do less than a year and an Ecosol 500 cycle would last 2 years...

Hope that helps and encourages people to refuse to buy any battery which does not include its duty cycles in the specification.

Patrick


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Patrick:

All batteries have a cyclic life, it can be as high as 2000 or as low as 300, but it depends entirely on the battery type and the depth of discharge during each cycle. Technically a 'cycle' is one complete discharge/charge cycle. Very few leisure applications go to a full discharge.

For most leisure applications it is chemical deterioration more than cyclic life which ends a battery's life.

Peter


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

"Ends" a battery's life is a fairly subject statement Peter. Given that a new and perfect battery would have 100% performance and a totally shot one say 10-20% performance and presumabably the deterioration is linear, at what stage does one change them?

Or is it linear?

Dick

Sorry just recapped and see you say that it is 80%


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

listerdiesel said:


> Patrick:
> 
> All batteries have a cyclic life, it can be as high as 2000 or as low as 300, but it depends entirely on the battery type and the depth of discharge during each cycle. Technically a 'cycle' is one complete discharge/charge cycle. Very few leisure applications go to a full discharge.
> 
> ...


Both Varta and Multicell gave me to understand that a cycle was to 11.9v on a "normal lead acid" and 10.5v on a deep cycle such as a golf cart traction battery. The dealer I use says the warranty is done when the cycles are used up and Dave Newell said the same.
The partial discharge is the point I was trying to make...
The manufacturers calculate the chemical deterioration and put their cycles estmate based on when they expect that to occur. It is the number of cycles that is the best predictor of life end.
Bit like you and me really?

Patrick


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

So a battery will last a very long time if you use it on EHU for 2 to 5 weeks a year and keep it topped up. But if you use it daily and discharge (not dangerously) every day before topping up it will soon wear out.

Next question  Is there any way, apart from observation, a layman can determine the efficiency of his battery?

Dick


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Glandwr said:


> Next question  Is there any way, apart from observation, a layman can determine the efficiency of his battery?


I am a bit wary of setting myself up as a battery expert, which I ain't, but...
The way the professionals used to do it was to put a very heavy duty low resistance across the terminals for about 30 seconds drawing 100 amps or more. Then they would measure the voltage left and see if it recovered over a 20 minute wait.

Those without that sort of kit would put a headlight bulb across for, say, 20 minutes and then do the same measures.

Trouble is, I can't remember any of the numbers...

A good battery will recover quite a lot but a failing one will stay down.

Sorry. Getting too old!

Patrick

PS. IF you are using and openable battery, then you can use a hydro to measure the electrolyte but not many batteries are open anymore...
Somebody must remember the numbers (Dave?)


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

The best indicator for a wet acid cell is to regularly measure and record the specific gravity of the electrolyte before and after charge- say monthly.

That is what I had to do on Merchant ships for the emergency radio batteries.

It was a right pain as we had two banks of 144Ah 24V.

Plotted on a graph is was very obvious if any of the cells were deteriorating.

A bit tricky with gell cells though!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Bit like a woman, treat 'em well and they will give you long and valuable service :wink: :wink:


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Apparently not Mrplodd. The more often you service them the less they give  

Dick


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

The best way to check is by doing a full discharge test on the battery, that way you can specify the end of discharge voltage and the discharge rate.

We make some large PLC-driven battery testers for 24V and 110V railway batteries, with data logging and display of the results.

Once you have the removed capacity figure you can decide on what to do with the battery.

For Joe Public, just keep the batteries charged up and don't over-discharge them.

As long as they do what you need, they are OK.

Peter


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