# diesel heating and smell?



## Ramsey007

Me again, Mr Newb,

My next query if you decide to accept it is:
I have diesel heating which works well and heats the van nicely. It looks like an after thought though well installed and is under the seat with the boiler. It all looks good and sealed nicely. When running especially on high you get a slight smell of diesel, is this normal? There doesnt appear to be any leaks and the exhaust pipe is about 2.5ft long and connected to the main exhaust at the side of the motor. I dont think it is diesel fumes I can smell but will be buying all the usual alarms before me or any of my family sleep in there.
So should I be able to smell a bit of diesel, could it be a weep or something somewhere or is it my burner just needs better housing and sealing from the cab even though its under the seat?

Thanks as ever!

Rams.


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## inkey-2008

It is normal to smell diesel on start up as it is not hot and the first spray of diesel is not completly burnt.

Andy


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## erneboy

There should be no smell at all inside the van. Tell us a bit more about the heating, make, model etc. Does it blow out hot air or does it heat water to circulate through little radiators. 

Could there be a vent near the exhaust allowing exhaust fumes into the van. Is the smell diesel or is it combustion gas, the two are quite distinct.

Don't run it for too long till it is sorted the exhaust gasses can kill as you know.

Is the van under warranty, servicing heaters can cost a couple of hundred pounds, more if many parts are needed, Alan.


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## Ramsey007

Ok Im a tad confused re the setup of this heater. It all looks reasonably well fitted under one of the dinette seats. The heater is an eberspacher airtronic D2 diesel heater. On either side it has what appears to be air outputs? One is connected and blows well the other has nothing on it?
Underneath and on the outside there are two outlets. One has a small length of steel pipe attached (about 2.5ft) which is attached to the van exhaust and ends at the end of it. The other just has nothing attached, couldnt see if it was capped and cant work out what it does from the Eberspacher site?
I have attached some pics. I cant believe the person I bought this off would sell it knowing there are exhaust fumes coming into the cab? especially knowing i have kids, hopefully Im wrong.
Will a carbon tester pick up fumes?
Any advice as ever gratefully recieved.

Rams.
Heater under seat, as you can see only one pipe attached on one side? Can I fit one on the other? should there be one on the other?








Exhaust pipe








Exit under van, only one pipe connected, whats the other hole do???(please dont say inlet?








Side pic of burner.


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## Ramsey007

Hmmmmmmmmmm after reading the manual the other hole is a combustion inlet? not quite sure what that is meant to do but it says it shouldnt be able to be too close to the exhaust or any fumes from the exhaust to enter it?
http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/technical-documents/airtronicD2+D4_technical.pdf

worrying stuff, hopefully just fixed by a piece of pipe.
The other thing Im not quite sure about is the air intake on the other side of the burner is just taking air from beneath the seat, maybe it would be better if it had some pipe on it and took air from the cab?


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## TR5

The combustion exhaust appears to be vented well away from the combustion inlet on your pics, so this should not present a problem.

The heating air inlet could be piped to a suitable intake point, well away from the air outlets, so as not to recycle already warm air. However if the bench seat is well vented to the rest of the van then it is not essential to fit an intake pipe, but make sure this has free air, and is not blocked by items in the locker.

If you have a window immediately above the exhaust pipe outlet it may be wise to not open this when using the heater, and check any floor vent in the vicinity, and re-route the exhaust pipe if necessary.


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## grizzlyj

Is the heater making a continuous unwavering noise when you can smell diesel?

When ours turns itself off (although hydronic not airtronic) when the thermostat decides its heated to the temperature its supposed to, on restart (decided by the thermostat, within your chosen heating period) you do get a wiff of diesel. You get a huge wiff if theres a reason for it to not be burning correctly, perhaps because of a slightly low battery voltage, or any number of things creating conditions it decides aren't suitable. Restart could also sometimes create such a big cloud of unburnt diesel it looks like the campers on fire! 

Does your control panel show error codes? We recently spent a hundred and something on one that did, which has solved a number of puzzles, which resulted in us buying a new water pump, glow plug and then fan. Bargain, but at least its now fixed. Has cost us nearly nothing for years, so not too unexpected. A 'net search should produce how to get error codes up on your panel if its one that does, and then what most mean?

EberspacherGraham at Ribblesdale Auto Elec in Preston is a whizz if you're close?

http://www.ribblesdaleauto.co.uk/html/product-range/product.php?id=3

Having a jubilee clip on the air intake hole looks like it did have an inlet pipe, but ours is just a short plastic pipe with a cap to prevent perhaps mice getting up, not a filter as such. The small clear pipe between inlet and exhaust is the diesel feed? It doesn't look like its leaking in the pic?


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## Ramsey007

I can smell diesel most when its running high therefore I would imagine when its pumping out the most air.
What is the combustion inlet? does the air come in from that or the other side of the burner?
I dont get any error codes and it does seem to work ok other than the smell.


Just looking to get a carbon monoxide and gas detector and wondered if anyone has any recommendations and also will a carbon monoxide detector detect both gas and exhaust fumes?

Cheers

Rams


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## inkey-2008

You will get the diesel smell from the exhust on start up. On mine you only smell it if you have a window open. If it continues then it may need a service as the fuel is not being burnt completely. Ifyou can try and trace the fuel line back to the tanko mke sure you have no leaks in the fuel line.

Andy


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## rogerandveronica

Dear Ramsey007. I fitted a similar D2 or D3 heater to my boat many years ago

The Airtonic consists of two separate chambers totally sealed from each other. They are the combustion chamber and the heat exchanger chamber. They both contain an impeller system on a single shaft driven by an electric motor. 

The combustion chamber contains a diesel spray nozzle and a glow plug type heater to ignite the diesel spray. Air is blown through the combustion chamber by an impeller, the motor speed varies according to the temperature of the combustion chamber and the amount of heat demanded via the thermostat/control system. The air is drawn into the combustion chamber through the approx 1 inch diameter air inlet on the outside (no pipe on it in your picture). The exhaust is the length of stainless steel pipe about 1 inch diameter which will get fairly hot when operating. When first starting the heater plug takes about 10 amps for a minute or so and the fan runs slowly. When ignition occurs and the temperature in the combustion chamber rises, the electrical supply to the heater plug switches off and the fan speed increases dramatically. All this is automatic. Some unburnt fuel will pass into the exhaust at start-up and will smell OUTSIDE the vehicle. Sometimes a little white smoke is produced by unburnt fuel. 

The second chamber is physically around the outside of the combustion chamber and transfers heat into the air passing through from the inside of your van (cool air comes in through the end of the Aitronic without a pipe on it, hole about 3 inches across, but it should have a wire mesh grill across it to stop foreign bodies entering). The heated air passes out through the approx. 3 inch diameter pipe and possible outlets etc into the interior of the vehicle. The impeller type fan is on the same shaft as the motor and the heater fan.

I lived on the boat for two years with my wife using the heater each winter for 24 /7 and had very few problems. I had to clean the heater plug occasionally.

Good luck, if you need to know more please pm me.

rogerandveronica


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## Ramsey007

Hi Roger,

Thanks for such a detailed description but I must admit Im still a bit confused (sorry Im no normally this dim).
Let me try and express my concerns/theories.
- the two pipes going outside, exhaust and combustion seem close enough for one to interfere with the other though Im not sure what that means. I think that if hte combustion pipe is the air intake for the van and the air we are breathing then it has the ability to take in some fumes from the exhaust OR
- is the combustion input just for the heater to work and ermmm combust LOL and the air we breath is from the other end of the burner (3inch intake on the other end from the heat output?) therefore should not be dispearsing exhaust fumes as fed from the cab (though I do feel there probably isnt enough air under the seat). If this is the case then it may just be a slight odour frm the heater working been sucked in from under the seat and sent back out so a pipe into the cab may resolve?

Sorry to be a pain, I am ordering a CO2 detector but would really want to be clear on whats going on as its so import especially since we will use our van all year round and every weekend.

Thanks again,

Rams.


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## rogerandveronica

Dear Rams. The combustion part of the system is not open in any way to the system that passes hot air to the van. The air for combustion enters via the 1 inch hole beside the 1 inch exhaust (the stainless corrugated pipe).

The air to be heated enters into the heater via the 3 inch hole in one end of the heater, it then passes over the outside of the combustion chamber collecting heat on the way and passes out of the Airtronic through the 3 inch pipe. There is no way that fumes from combustion can get into the van except......
(a) If the exhaust from the heater is venting against the bodywork or floor and fumes are passing through some unsealed gap into the van.
(b) If the heater plug is not properly screwed into and sealed with the correct washer to the body of the combustion chamber, it could leak fumes....most unlikely and could only occur through appallingly bad maintenance. 

A smell of diesel could come from a seepage of fuel where the diesel supply pipe joins onto the metal tube of the heater, again, unlikely.

The most likely source of fumes in your system is exhaust fumes coming in from outside either via a window or an unknown gap in the floor etc.

Good luck, rogerandveronica


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## erneboy

Roger is quite right, the combustion side and the heating side are well separated. 

Here is how it works: Under the floor, outside, you will find the combustion inlet and outlet or exhaust. The inlet brings air in to allow the heater to produce a flame and the outlet expels the exhaust gasses. Both of these are under the floor outside the van, it is common for the air inlet pipe to be inside the exhaust, that is OK because none of this air gets inside the van.

When you look at the heater inside the van there are vents at both ends. One end sucks cool air in and the other end blows hot air out. The "in" end can become blocked with fluff and debris, it pulls off for cleaning. 

The heater sits on a rubber gasket so that the air inside (clean air) and the air outside (exhaust air) cannot be mixed. If the heater is loose or the gasket is not doing it's job the two can become combined which will allow exhaust gasses into the van. This is dangerous and can also happen if there is a vent too near the inlet which allows exhaust gasses from outside to be sucked inside.

There should be no possibility of the two airs being mixed. I had a heater which was doing this, the fumes were obvious. I took it to a service centre. They told me it was impossible, as explained above. I watched them dismantle it and had a blow by blow description of what they did, very informative, no fault found. After the service the problem did not recur. What had happened was impossible in theory but there you go, Alan.


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## pieterv

Roger gave a very good description on how things work.

You can (on old heaters) get cracks in the combustion chamber, which would cause fumes (that should go out off the exhaust) to mix with the air being heated and enter your van. But you would get an obvious fume smell and not just a bit of diesel whiff. 

I personally don't think the combustion air intake and exhaust underneath are to close together (they seem to come with quite short exhausts), but this shouldn't cause your problem anyway as (as mentioned before) the combustion chamber is totally sealed off the air being heated (provided no cracks, of course).

The diesel pump might leak a bit and the smell could get in through any vents or open windows, or the heater isn't sealed well to the floor and air can get in there. They come with a big rubber seal that should be fitted around the bottom where air intake and exhaust go through the floor of the van.

Pieter


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## Ramsey007

Thanks for all your info guys, it certainly gives me a great understanding of how my heating works.
The unit is less than a year old so hopefully ok. I thought the smell of diesel was coming directly from the hot air output as I had my nose next to it when trying last but will try again. I think the detectors are the most improtant thing for me and my family so I will get them and ensure its not fumes (it may just be me!)

Lastly Roger and Ernieboy, they are seriously fantastic motorhomes you have! Roger, how do you get around our lovely lanes down here!

Thanks all again for you very kind help, I feel very well informed now re my heating and know exactly where to look for any problems.

Ramsey.


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