# Harry and Megan what do we think?



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Being out here in Spain I missed the initial fuss but I think I have caught up now.
They want to live part time in North America and part time here and fund themselves but keep a home funded by Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall?

How are they going to earn enough money to support their lifestyle?

Did Megan plan it this way this all along?

Where is her dog in all of this?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I borrowed this from Fruits.

Public divided over Harry and Meghan crisis between those who couldn’t give a **** and those who couldn’t give a toss


The new royal family crisis surrounding Harry and Meghan and seen a sharp division emerge amongst the British public between those who couldn’t give a toss about it and those who couldn’t give a ****.

“I’ll be honest,” said Simon Williams, a whelk beautician from Tewkesbury.

“I couldn’t give a toss. Massively. I mean, a couple of rich people I’ve never met want to be rich in a slightly different way to the way they’re rich now.

“Doesn’t help me live my life at all, does it?”

Eleanor Gay, a leaf painter from Norwich disagreed.

“I find it hard to understand these people who say they couldn’t give a toss. It’s bizarre. I mean, I couldn’t give a ****. Obviously.

“I mean, Harry and Meghan? They’re just some couple who are never going to be King and Queen.

“Me and my Jason are never going to be King and Queen. You don’t hear us going on about it.”

However, there were some people who were on the fence about the crisis.

“I don’t know what to think,” said Kevin Rammstein, a hat facilitator from Haywards Heath.

“Yesterday I couldn’t give a toss about the whole thing, then, when I woke up this morning, I couldn’t give a ****.

“It’s ever so confusing.”

With the crisis showing no sign of ending, it is possible that the public could find themselves coalescing around not giving a toss or not giving a ****, but for now it seems, once again, the British public finds themselves hopelessly divided.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Sweary Fruitcakes it seems.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Spoiled and over privileged, he knows nothing about reality. He can live in the real world if he doesn't mind the inconveniences, like paying tax and not having constant protection from the plebs, some of whom will certainly hope to harm him.

Her? She wanted to marry a prince and did. It turned out to be real and not a fairy tale.

Nothing wrong with either of them. I mean them no harm, but they will have to accept the consequences of who he is and what they've done. 

I find it sad that he can't be a normal person, but I feel sure that he hasn't the least idea of what being a normal person would actually entail.

In summary, bed made, now they have to lie in it, or pay for all the things which he used to get care of UK tax payers.

The striking thing, the one one thing that sickens me is the speculation in the UK press about how black the child will be.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

raynipper said:


> I borrowed this from Fruits.
> 
> Public divided over Harry and Meghan crisis between those who couldn't give a **** and those who couldn't give a toss
> 
> ...


Probably the best thing that has been, or will be, written on the subject!

I too am torn between not giving a toss and not giving a ****.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

well I couldn't give a toss, or a f*** or a s***, or a **** (work that one out yourself)


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> ..........................
> 
> The striking thing, the one one thing that sickens me is the speculation in the UK press about how black the child will be.


Ah colour, now you may be getting close to the nub of the problem for many, unsurprisingly it's been well stoked up by the Daily Mail.

Terry


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi all

i would think that a supposedly highly educated person as he is would learn to keep there mouth shut and do things in an orderly way without airing all there washing in public

his mum and dad did exactly the same and look how that went

just my thoughts on the subject

but i know a bit of what his parents got up to in private first hand but am not going to elaborate on that

barry


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

powerplus said:


> hi all
> 
> i would think that a supposedly highly educated person as he is would learn to keep there mouth shut and do things in an orderly way without airing all there washing in public
> 
> ...


Why mention it then?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The question of the colour of the baby might well be what is at the root of all this. It would be a big clue as to why choose North America over Britain. In America they worship celebrities and Megan may well be struggling with having to work hard at gaining the acceptance of the general British public over her celebrity status. Over here they have to earn it by doing good deeds not just by being on tv.
Then there is the "What Megan wants, Megan gets" comment that is reported to have been fired at the staff by Harry. That is the sign of a stressed man  I think that she is very hard work and he is fed up with juggling at keeping her happy and trying to do is full time job.
I don't think that we have ever seen the real Megan as she always looks to be acting in her public duties so far.

If the above is true and she wanted the celebrity life style and is moving to America to live it then I am furious about her taking the full state wedding route and accepting Frogmore House etc. Given that we were not allowed a glimpse of Archie then why not take a small, private, wedding with an apartment in Kensington Palace?

Harry survived a military career so he will find a job doing something.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

Never mess about with 'The GodMother' -


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

IMO, it would be great for the couple to be able to live a normal life, away from the paparazzi but with their parentage that can never happen.

I suspect that for the sake of avoiding adverse opinion the Queen may well suddenly pay back the £2.4 million that the public has spent on Frogmore House, but the VVSR (Vey, Very, Senior, Royals) may well want to reduce the potential flack heading in their direction somehow.

I doubt that can, or will, happen.

Harry has always disliked the glare of publicity after being forced to walk as a young boy, behind his mother's coffin (as someone at Westminster Abbey that day, I was within 5 m of the pair and have rarely seen a young child so visibly distressed and yet being given NO comfort). He has been treated very badly at all times by the media EXCEPT when he was away from their eyes in the Army - until one ****er in the media broke the story of where he was - endangering the lives of those around him as he instantly became a high priority target for terrorist action.

Meghan wears the trousers and I suspect is very forceful that she wants to be away from the glare - but there is no way that can happen and these actions will simply make it worse.

Her (or their) legal action about the supposedly misused private letter was a very clear indication of their likely root - it was against VVSR advice and the stated desire of the Establishment - those nameless and faceless individuals behind the throne who control every action the VVSR's take and every statement they issue. It is clear that they wished to separate themselves from this control last year - but little seems to have been done to bring it to Court - that might have given some guidance about their future relationships with the Press..... but it has not happened yet - perhaps the Establishment are discussing things behind the scenes at length and probably without involving the pair of them as "It will be for the good of the Royals" i.e. the Establishment.

Perhaps the best place for them to be would be South Georgia - there they would be away from the Press and the surrounding penguins could not give a **** about whether they have titles or not.....

They have chosen their route, but will not be able to follow it. I wonder how long it will be before the marriage begins to show cracks......

.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I heard on the radio this morning that there are mutterings about The Commonwealth. I wonder if that might be a route they could both take or be directed down? Low key enough to keep them out of the way of the media most of the time but still a challenge for both of them.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well I’m not a royalist 

Never have been 

Royal by birth?

It doesn’t hold anything for me 

And if they decide to leave the royal family

Good for them

As long as they don’t use any tax payers money to fund them

Which I doubt they will

So good luck to them

We don’t own them , they can be free 

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

How long would they last if they were "free"?


What does free even mean applied to them?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well let’s see 
Canada is part of the commonwealth 

It’s not they are going out of the commonwealth 

Free who knows what free means to them 

Obviously more than free means if they stay

Sandra


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

One major concern has to be their security.

IF someone was to kidnap one of the Sussexes' would King Charles say "My son has made his bed, he'll have to lie in it"?
Or would he be looking for a Prodigal Son syndrome?

Remember how Maggie reacted when her darling son got lost in Africa? All the resources of several states got thrown into finding him but she eventually paid for it from her own purse.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20800549.

WHO will foot the bill for caring for Harry et al 24/7/365?

One suggestion was that if they live in a Commonwealth country, that regime might pick up the bill.
I wonder what they might get in return?

Gordon


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Being a Republican I don't give a dam what the royals get up to but I do think Meghan was the best thing that has happened to Harry ,his escape from that miserable family can only be good for him.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

But he won't 'escape' GG as he has a £2 million a year leash.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Doesn't most of his money come from the Duchy of Cornwall? I know we pay for his security and expenses for his royal "duties" but his living costs are covered by Charles. It would be up to Charles to decide how much he is prepared to subsidise him. He also has a large inheritance from Diana's estate. We could ask Megan. I expect she has checked it all out


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

raynipper said:


> But he won't 'escape' GG as he has a £2 million a year leash.
> 
> Ray.


That I suspect that will be peanuts in comparison with what they can both earn in the "land of the free".:wink2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Apparently the cost of their protection, which would need a fully equipped and maintained team of around two dozen on duty officers may be shared between the UK and Canada.

I presume that adds up to well over 100 officers, attendant admin, accommodation, transport, technology etc. The whole circus would need to be mobile I expect. How could anyone think any of that normal? It sounds to me like having all the privilege of being Royals without carrying out any of what are described as the duties.

I'd say the costs would be enough for a minor country to run on.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

How do the American top earners cope? George Clooney and wife are like royals over there so they must manage somehow.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

They live in Italy I think GG. Hamilton in Switzerland. Kennedy's Malthas Vineyard island. Those that stay stateside often top themselves?

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

So it could be that they get themselves on an island where security is easier, but I cannot see the Met being too keen as they would have to ship out whole families to cover the Royals 24/7 even with RCMP involvement.

Not a cheap exercise and the need for it will undoubtedly be questioned, often and hard...... if they deliberately cut themselves off should the UK back them while they are out of the UK with more than a token single security officer..........

IMO, they are digging a massively deep hole which could well fall in on them, if not now then perhaps when Archie needs school..... there is no easy answer and I suspect ALL answers will be expensive.

Meghan is probably the prime cause - she could restart her career, but it will never keep them " in the manner they have become accustomed to". 

.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I am surprised at the very calm, reasonable and I have to say insightful comments being made. No-one is being nasty or vindictive towards the Sussex's.

I don't *think* I would like their (semi) current lifestyle. For example they can never "take a drive out into the country for a bit of *personal* time (nudge nudge wink wink)" Neither can they say 'Let's go and see a film and then eat at Nando's" can they? Sure they don't have any financial concerns (yet) but they certainly DO have restraints on what they do/where they go and THAT is something I certainly wouldn't like. Harry has tasted "freedom" of a sort when he was out in Afghanistan where he wasn't under constant scrutiny.

I can to a great extent see that he wants to have that sort of semi freedom for himself and his family, BUT boy what a balls up he has made of trying to achieve it. He would, in my view, have been far better thought of had he discussed this matter with his father/brother/grandmother to get things all sorted out rather than simply lining up a canon and firing it off without ANY prior warning.

Are we looking at another Edward and Mrs Simpson? I don't think it's as simple for Harry & Meghan as it was for them because he IS (And always will be) a direct descendent of the UK's monarch so simply MUST be viewed as a very tempting target indeed for just about every terrorist/nutter in the world. As a result he, and his family, WILL always require constant close protection. Just imagine what would happen if one day you wake up the headline "Archie has been kidnapped by the Taliban" Doesn't bear thinking about does it? The implications are terrifying.

My only advice to him/them would be ......

" Be VERY careful what you wish for"

Andy


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

Mrplodd said:


> Neither can they say 'Let's go and see a film and then eat at* Nando's*" can they?
> Andy


Royal status didn't stop Andrew dropping in at Burger King - allegedly .......


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Mrplodd said:


> Neither can they say 'Let's go and see a film and then eat at Nando's" can they?
> 
> " Be VERY careful what you wish for"
> 
> Andy


Back in the day, Diana brought Will and Harry to the local cinema in Dereham whilst they were holidaying at Sandringham. Times have changed but a false beard and a big hat would be cheaper and probably less obvious than 2 Met Protection Officers. :laugh:

Gordon


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Meghan with a false beard. . 😳. 🤔


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> " Be VERY careful what * you * Meghan wishes for"
> 
> Andy


I have edited your last line a touch to reflect what I think may be happening....


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes, I think that this has Megan's hand all over it. She has no idea what a rat's nest she is opening up in her bid to gain "privacy". She will have been well warned by "The Firm" and know full well what happened when Diana tried to go it alone but she appears to be a very strong woman. Harry is, perhaps, smitten and can deny her nothing.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrs D reckons she manipulated all this. She never took to her and so far she has been spot on as a judge of character since we met apart from a bit of a lapse when she met me.

Megan or Rachel from Suits as she will always be to me lived in Canada for seven years where they filmed Suits and all her friends are there. So, hooks a prince, fairy tale wedding, become massively famous then split him away from his royal life, go live in Canada with all your pals and an A list royal celeb status. Maybe resume acting career.

It's brilliant! Not so stupid these Americans it seems. We should remember that.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

I cant help noticing that the blame for this debacle seems be due to Meghan, we are not being racist here are we? Are we being lead by the likes of the Mail etc, after all we are all British and proud of our royal family.......well some of us might be.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

The Royals just seem to stumble from one catastrophe to another. But then with the media (paparazzi) exposing every facet of their lives cracks are bound to be revealed. I'm sure any 'ordinary' family that hasn't got a few hundred £million to fall back on might be able to be more careful in the public eye.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

But, how many of the supposed flaws are as a result of the intrusion of the Press ?

If thevpress had not chased Diana would she have died ? NO.

If the driver of her car had not been drunk would she have died ? Probably not.

If the French paramedics had checked her bp would she have died ? They were being pressed and photographed by the Press and were not used to such pressure and may well have made elementary mistakes. So probably not.

If the Press had not taken pics of Kate topless would they have been less worried about the Press ? 

If Harry had not been photographed in his birthday suit and it spread, would anyone have known or cared ?

If the Press had not chased Meghan's father would so much have been blown up ? No, the Press contributed to it by seeking the dirt that they could.

If one paper had not allegedly edited a private letter and published it, would anyone have cared ? No, but because they did, it has simply added to the pressure on a young couple.

There are many more examples where, without the Press sensationalising what has happened in many families for hundreds of years, this young family now find themselves cut off from their previous life. It may be Meghan's actions that have resulted in this uproar - she has had more than enough. BUT the Press continue to hound them - a characteristic that has led to the death of their mother and now estrangement from the rest of the family. 

What other choice do they have ? NONE.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If anyone else had been in the hot water Andy's been in the press would have flayed them alive.

If anyone else had collided with a car knocking it onto it's roof and injuring the occupants they'd have been prosecuted. I'm sure that if I could be bothered to think about it there have been plenty more instances. Let's not mention a king who was openly pro-nazi and a friend of Hitler.

I don't think the press are overly unkind to then in general at all.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

But, Dave, she knew all this when she signed up for the deal. It was well known by most of the public anyway and if she had missed it Harry would have filled her in. If you remember Will and Kate split up for a while and that, I always think, was due to cold feet on her part over the life she was signing up for. She decided he was worth it and a jolly good job she is making of it.
I think Meghan is not happy playing second fiddle to Kate in the limelight. She will be finding it harder to change than Kate ever did. Kate had not held down a demanding career and followed her own schedule whereas Meghan was her own woman and had even been married before.
None of the above was unknown to Meghan but she still went ahead and married into the Royal Family in the UK. She needs to get over it.
I have no problem if she wants to go off and do her own thing but she must finance it, with Harry, herself. If that means she has to step away from charity work and earn money then that will have to be the way it goes. Harry, with his military background and his work in "The Firm" will be able to support himself and his family but he can't have it both ways.
I think that if they step away they need to drop their titles and give up the right to use the word "Royal" in any business venture that they pursue.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I have had dealings with the press.


On one particular occasion it was about an executive jet that carried persons to a meeting with a very high persons in a Middle Easr State but disappeared en route. 



The press wanted to interview me as the Insurers' representative. I said on the phone 'I will not be able to tell you anything' - 'Oh it is only for background information.'


I only agreed hoping I could get info from him.


After 3-4 pints when I had revealed nothing, he got arsey with me. I just said I told you I could not say anything and left.


I suppose some lawers 'leak,' but not this one.


Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

greygit said:


> I cant help noticing that the blame for this debacle seems be due to Meghan, *we are not being racist here are we? *Are we being lead by the likes of the Mail etc, after all we are all British and proud of our royal family.......well some of us might be.


Well not me for sure. I never gave race a second thought although it is odd considering the hostile environment the UK has now deployed that people are up in arms about an actual foreigner "leaving" of her own accord rather than being chucked out. :lol: You would have thought the Mail readers would have been packing her bags.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

We all know when we sign up for the deal Pat

Or think we do

If we did divorce wouldn’t so prevalent 

Harry is touchy after what happened to his mum , she too was a strong woman , didn’t go down well with family though , and they surely knew about Camilla , his dads “ bit on the side “

If I was Harry I’d want out to protect my family 

But not sure that will be possible 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

barryd said:


> Well not me for sure. I never gave race a second thought although it is odd considering the hostile environment the UK has now deployed that people are up in arms about an actual foreigner "leaving" of her own accord rather than being chucked out. :lol: You would have thought the Mail readers would have been packing her bags.


I, too, never gave race a thought. It seems, though, that Meghan is ultra sensitive about the race part of her relationship. She would, of course, be more than aware of certain elements of our press. The rest of us just discount it as the bid to swell the distribution numbers among the media. Most ordinary citizens, in my opinion, do not give her race a second thought. Is she being too sensitive? I read reports that she keeps Archie out of the limelight because certain elements of the press will see features that emanate from his ethnic origins. Well let them! It will come out one day and better that it is while he is unaware than when he is older and, perhaps, more sensitive. He could be a game changer if he grows up into a decent young man and proves all the racists wrong.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

She's just on the wrong side of the fence. In time she'll be like the English people of Asian descent who happily voted to keep foreigners out.


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## MeFeinMcCabe (Mar 28, 2009)

Non entities

No doubt taxpayers will be picking up the bill for close protection. Why didnt they come out with this decision before millions spent on their official residence.

I am anti rotyal but if we have to have them the taxpayer should only be funding the siting monarch not all the hangers on


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

MeFeinMcCabe said:


> ............... but if we have to have them the taxpayer should only be funding the siting monarch not all the hangers on


I agree 100%. I don't actively dislike them but I can't warm to them or see what right they have to "rule over us". Maybe they're so powerful and wealthy that they could enforce their position? No?

If they want the titles let them keep them because they merit them. How long would that last I wonder?

Brexit has been a remarkable example of the effectiveness of propaganda, but the royals have been using propaganda since long before brexit was thought of.

Take a bow Sheeple. The Daily Mail and Co. will tell you who to hate next while you ensure that freeloading, dysfunctional arses continue to live off you and tell you what you think. Gord Bless the Queen.

Again I say that I have nothing against her, but she has enough money and property to keep herself and her family without levying us to keep her in her position.


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

THEY should be able to do what they want to do BUT without my tax paying for it.

I can definitely see who wears the trousers in this marriage.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

moblee said:


> THEY should be able to do what they want to do BUT without my tax paying for it. .


100%.

Trousers? Who gives a fcuk?


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm not a Royalist by any stretch of the imagination and actually got into trouble at secondary school for repeating what my aunt was saying when the Queen visited Durham in 1964 (approx).

HOWEVER the Americans have Heads of State who only "rule" for 8y at the most BUT then have to be protected for the rest of their lives, as do their close families.

So I'm a bit ambivalent about the whole set up.

My oldest two children were both able to spend time at school in Netherlands, where the Crown Prince attended as an "ordinary" pupil. I think that their system and the normality of their Royal Family would be a lot more favourable but I do not think that it is going to materialise, neither suddenly nor slowly.

Gordon


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I am pretty sure that they are self funding of their lifestyle. The taxpayer has to cough up for all the state duties that they perform. This, we are told, brings in more money in the way of trade and tourism than it costs. I haven't seen the figures but I am sure one of the rags would have exposed it if not true. I think that, generally, they do more good than harm.
I have visited Sandringham and seen rooms where the Queen lives when she is in residence. One is heated by a small electric fire! It is, apparently, the most cost effective way of heating that space rather than the whole house.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

https://pagesix.com/2020/01/14/burger-king-offers-prince-harry-a-job/

Too late MacDonalds.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

There is a job running a coffee shop on a remote Irish Island that I saw recently


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

It occurred to me this morning while scanning the papers that the Meghan /Harry news is still going strong and that all our opinions of this couple are based on media reporting. Having just seen the depths the media will stoop to in this last election I am now going to forget anything I read about this couple from now on.........still think racism is behind a lot of it though.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You may well be right but she does not help herself when she plays the racist card all the time. It draws attention to the fact that she is not "White British". I, personally, don't think it is an issue. I think most people, if they are going to resent her on any grounds, will do so more because she is American. But then I suppose that is a kind of racism but it seems to be a more acceptable kind.

I thought it was great that Harry had found his true love. I am not so sure that he will be happy now that she has "landed".


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Going back to the sixties an old lecturer at uni told me: "That I would be better off with the right girl in a mud hut, than with the wrong girl in a palace.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

patp said:


> You may well be right but she does not help herself *when she plays the racist card all the time. It draws attention to the fact that she is not "White British". I, *personally, don't think it is an issue. I think most people, if they are going to resent her on any grounds, will do so more because she is American. But then I suppose that is a kind of racism but it seems to be a more acceptable kind.
> 
> I thought it was great that Harry had found his true love. I am not so sure that he will be happy now that she has "landed".


So do you mean she shouldn't speak out against racism?
Personally I think they are right to leave the racist UK for a more tolerant country.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

greygit said:


> So do you mean she shouldn't speak out against racism?
> Personally I think they are right to leave the racist UK for a more tolerant country.


Don't you start on me!

For God's sake this forum needs a moderater. We can't have a reasonable discussion now without someone jumping in and firing accusations left right and centre.

The UK that you are talking about is not the UK that I live in.

If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Easy on Pat. GG has, perfectly reasonably, asked a question and made a general comment.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

patp said:


> Don't you start on me!
> 
> For God's sake this forum needs a moderater. We can't have a reasonable discussion now without someone jumping in and firing accusations left right and centre.
> 
> ...


What is there about GG's post that would need moderating? You have expressed an opinion and he has simply and politely asked you a question. That's the way a discussion works isn't it? Or are you only interested in replies that agree with you?


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

I think I can agree with our volatile friend in that his UK is definitely different to the one I know.:smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry, everyone and especially GG. Being a little over sensitive perhaps.

The answer is - yes, of course she should, and she does, speak out against racism. I am sure we all support her in that. I fail to see, however, how she suffers from it. She has been denied nothing due to her ethnic origins. She should, of course, be proud of that achievement and set an example to others who cry out when they feel discriminated against.

If she thinks living in Canada is going to be Utopia to she should try speaking English in Quebec.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Drew said:


> Going back to the sixties an old lecturer at uni told me: "That I would be better off with the right girl in a mud hut, than with the wrong girl in a palace.


Well I've been in a mud hut, with 6 kids and Albert, no electric ,water from a well, beaton mud floors

I'm not sure I've been in a palace

But I have a lovely home and no money worries

So which to choose?

Well I was young in a mud hut, older in a possible palace

But there is nothing to chose when it comes down to it

If you are with those you love

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

greygit said:


> So do you mean she shouldn't speak out against racism?
> Personally I think they are right to leave the racist UK for a more tolerant country.


I think she shouldn't , well she would of course speak out against racism

Regardless about what any think

We in Britain are the least racist people

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

aldra said:


> We in Britain are the least racist people
> 
> Sandra


You really think so?!

How come we foster the likes of Yaxley/Lennon (Tommy Robinson)? And UKIP?


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> aldra said:
> 
> 
> > We in Britain are the least racist people
> ...


Not forgetting the abuse from the football terraces and the sharp rise in hate crime against those that don't look indigenous English.

Terry


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry Sandra, can't agree. There are large racist elements in our society. It even extends as far as Europe and as close as Scotland and Wales. Such a shame but I think those responsible need a focus in life other than football and the pub 

The latest news is that Harry and Megan are going to pay back to the Govt the money spent on Frogmore House. That is good news. Then they are going to give up their HRH titles but Harry retains his Prince title. They are going to live in Canada. That is as much as I can remember from the news last night.

I am glad that they are not going to use their titles to make their way in the world. It does surprise me, though, that Meghan went through all the courtship and lead up to the wedding knowing what Royal life had in store for her and then suddenly decides she does not like it. Of course, it may be her mothering instinct coming out over Archie. She wants to protect him and that is perfectly understandable.

Will be interesting to hear how Harry gets on in the "real" world. Hope he has learned lessons from his uncle Andrew.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

aldra said:


> I think she shouldn't , well she would of course speak out against racism
> 
> Regardless about what any think
> *
> ...


Sorry Sandra ,as usual I think you are so wrong. For most of my adult life my closest male friend was black, he came to this country on an arts scholarship and over the years we went to numerous arts events throughout the UK. When you walk through crowds next to a black person it gives one a chance to observe peoples reaction to seeing a non white first hand and believe me it is not pretty to see the hate in a lot of peoples eyes, the UK is a very, very racist country.
Perhaps those that disagree should try blacking up and walk around their local town for the day and see if they feel the same afterwards.........actually I wouldn't advise it to honest.

Actually this argument demonstrates IMO how so wrongly Brits see their own country.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

This really isn't a subject where debate is needed. Like so much else it has been measured. The UK certainly scores as very racist indeed, only a few countries are worse apparently: https://listovative.com/top-12-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/

I'm sure that survey will be dismissed but still it's telling that the UK manages to hold a place as a world leader in racism. Isn't it?

"We in Britain are the least racist people" wherever did you get that idea Aldra?

By the way. Happy birthday. I've no idea why you thought I would avoid saying that.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

greygit said:


> ...................
> 
> Actually this argument demonstrates IMO how so wrongly Brits see their own country.


Couldn't agree more.

I blame the press and what's taught as British history in schools.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Sad to say but I blame the people who just absolutely refuse to see the evidence in front of them and have absolutely zero self knowledge about their own attitudes..........as we regularly see on here.

They are the kind of people that the active racists rely upon for their strength.

I have admited elsewhere, that in my youth I was fearful and apprehensive about the black people around me. How can I be racist I said when challenged I have a Spanish girlfriend ?????? I had no idea. As I have said, I was racist, but I just did not know it at the time.

Luckily my self knowledge has grown since then and I look back with embarrassment.

For your consideration Aldra............I turn up anywhere in this country or abroad in the motorhome without any thought of problems. I have never seen a black family in a motorhome (I am sure they exist) BUT can you imagine what they have to think about before they would pull up at a campsite and walk into the bar or into a pub.Your comments are pathetic and even more so from someone of your age and experience.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Odd isn't it Peter there are so few coloured people enjoying the motorhome life. Can't say I have seen any in Europe but we came across the odd one or two in the states. One couple also had an Eagle like ours and invited us to park up at their house if we were parking. We fully intended to do just that but had to sell up and come back before we made their home.

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Webby1 said:


> Sad to say but I blame the people who just absolutely refuse to see the evidence in front of them and have absolutely zero self knowledge about their own attitudes..........as we regularly see on here.
> 
> They are the kind of people that the active racists rely upon for their strength.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you live in the North, in Lancashire?

There are as many coloured faces as white

The cotton industry depended on them

True I haven't met many dark skinned MHomers , I haven't met that many young motor home owners either, the ones I have have usually rented it

I wonder what proportion of our population own a motorhome?

Enough to draw a conclusion on racism do you think.?

Sandra


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

It's not odd Ray when you consider what they think they might have to deal with whether it is true or not. 

Funny looks and maybe a hostile environment. You would never know, if you were kept waiting at the bar, whether it was a mistake or a direct message to you...............you would Never Ever know if there was another reason. Well into it was made absolutely clear to you that there was a reason and it was the colour of you skin

Black friends tell me they are very careful about choosing a holiday destination in UK or abroad and many choose to stay at home. 

Can you imagine what it is like to be the only black person on the campsite.............never knowing whether it was just looks as you walked into the bar or might lead to something else later.

To make it even worse, you would have idiots telling you that they don't have a racist bone in their body and what's your problem, what are you worrying about.

That's why I have to challenge the nonsense from Aldra all the time.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

As a boy growing up in the Durham coalfields, the only "black" people I saw were the miners on their way from the pit head to the baths!

The first black person I saw was on a Methodist Youth Club trip to London at the age of 12. We *all *rushed to the side of the coach to see such a sight.

At Uni in London I met and befriended people from lots of nations and, I hope, treated them all in a similar manner to how I treated my "British" friends. I believe I have continued to show the same attitude throughout the rest of my life, but really that is for others to judge.

I vividly remember the first Wednesday in September 1973. As a newly appointed teacher I watched approx 240 First Formers (Y7 they would be called now) march into assembly, most wearing their smart new "big school" uniforms (although some families on the huge estate which the school served were not able to support that aspect of education). Sitting 5 rows back was the only black face amongst a sea of mainly white: she was clearly chewing gum and I considered what I might do but, fortunately, it wasn't my call. The Head of Year, Miss Griffiths, addressed the pupils and started "That girl with the red hair band: get rid of your chewing gum and see me afterwards". I appreciated the valuable lesson taught to everyone that day: the colour of a person's skin is not to be used as a form of identification, no matter how convenient it may be.

Gordon

PS I've never bothered to notice if any coloured people have been on campsites: it just wouldn't affect me. But I can appreciate that it could be a cause of concern if they were to "risk" the unknown.

PPS I have slightly swarthy skin and have been subject to racial abuse by some of the good folk of Norfolk.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It seems, now, that the Canadians are concerned about how Harry and Meghan are going to become citizens and what is going to happen about their tax situation. It seems that they are going to keep their website "SussexRoyal that they set up when they split from the one shared with William and Kate. This means they will cash in on the Royal aspect of their existence. 
I have no problem with them going their own way but do have a problem with them using the "Royal" title to do it. Why not just HarryandMeghan? 
A security company in Canada estimate that their protection while there will cost about 7 million Canadian Dollars per year. The palace will not comment on security. They had better start earning a decent living pretty quickly if they are to fund it themselves.


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

erneboy said:


> This really isn't a subject where debate is needed. Like so much else it has been measured. The UK certainly scores as very racist indeed, only a few countries are worse apparently: https://listovative.com/top-12-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/
> 
> I'm sure that survey will be dismissed but still it's telling that the UK manages to hold a place as a world leader in racism. Isn't it?
> 
> ...


Without wishing to start a war here I do wonder what the situation is in other parts of the EU. Surveys are all very well but you can always find one that doesn't match with others just like this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Europe#United_Kingdom
which states is a study by Harvard University. It shows us way down the list and in the first example France is nowhere to be seen, so who do we believe? I am fully aware that racism is a big issue here in the UK but I can't believe we are any worse than others which, of course, is NO justification whatsoever. I go to South Africa every year for a month at least to see my Stepdaughter and have done so for the last 18 years. It's very interesting to see out there the way life has changed for the Whites. The first time I went there the racism was jaw dropping. The way that some white people spoke to black people was truly dreadful. In fact, when one white shopkeeper whom I had seen acting in this way was subsequently shot dead by a black person my immediate thought was 
"not surprised." Now though the dynamics have changed a lot and you could almost call it reverse racism. It seems to manifest itself in the form of jobs and land claims etc., I would like to say to my hosts that the indigenous population are reclaiming their birthright but alas, I feel that it"s not my place as it's not my country. However, it does sometimes give me some smug satisfaction to hear them complaining about things.
Linda (Mrs Shingi)


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Of course, as I said in one of my posts, it is not just black people that can be discriminated against. We can see from the list of European countries how they have discriminated against minorities. I heard more people moan that Meghan was American than that she was of mixed race. Still a form of racism though.
I don't think many of us have not harboured thoughts of how the conversation dies when you are from England and you enter a Welsh pub or how the Scots make a point of calling everything Scottish rather than British. Northerners who mock Southerners and vice versa. When we first moved to Norfolk we were ostracised for not being Norfolk bred. The same happened to us in an Essex village. Hopefully those times are now past (we are now accepted in Norfolk after nearly 40 years!  )


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

In the 50s and 60s I along with most of the population were guilty of racism. At the pub and workplace there always was an element of segregation. But it became light hearted and jocular as attitudes changed. So we adapt from our upbringing and learn. But racism is very much apparent in many other countries we called The Third World. 
I'm sure the indigenous population of the UK still have some Victorian attitudes about them and us. Various family and friends still delight in telling us about our 'Froggie Friends' when the media blow up some gaff. It's too easy to group label any section of society.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

shingi said:


> ............ but I can't believe we are any worse than others ................
> Linda (Mrs Shingi)


I'd fully accept that. My intention was only to challenge the claim that Britain is the least racist of countries. In fact I had seen other studies which put the UK further down the scale, though a long way from the least in every case. What interested me was that different results are obtained depending upon what measure is used and which groups both of racist and victim are studied.

I know for example that my Spanish friends are quite racist too, but in a way that surprised me. They seem to be least tolerant of Romanians generally, but as you might expect not quite so much in the case of those they know. They are very fond of telling me about the stereotypes they attach to Romanians, while not so much about other nationalities.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

There are concerns up here (and elsewhere) about the rise of right wing extremism and racism in children now, especially in the North East.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-right-wing-extremism-17588331

And now it seems the police are claiming that the threat of far right terrorism is now the fastest growing terrorism threat in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

Hate crime massively spiked in 2016 after the Brexit referendum. It seems the genie has been let out of the bottle now and its open season for racists and extremists and apparently far right terrorists. Lovely. 

Having just spent four years on social media trying to persuade people down a different path I would say we failed miserably.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yep Baz. England resembles the old NI more and more each day. 

At least for us in Ni it's declined considerably England may have quite some way to go before it even peaks. Let's hope it's stopped before it explodes into actions.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Ed Balls: Travels in Euroland explores right-wing popularism.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/18/ed-balls-travel-euroland

Gordon


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

Never upset the Queen ........


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It bothers me that Meghan has gone to Canada and left Harry to negotiate. Yes, I know that she had video link but why did she go or did she not come back from their last trip. There are reports that she left clothes in Canada. We know that she left one of her dogs there. Was it ever her intention to integrate into the Royal Family I wonder? It all seems to me to stem from the supposed fall out they had with William and Kate. A new website emerged making it quite clear that the two families were going their separate ways. Such a shame for Harry to have to leave the support of his loving family.

It seems even Meghans's father has now joined in with criticism of their actions.

I have tried to find out what has happened to the dog that she did bring to England with her. I know it broke two legs in an accident while it was here and she took it to Noel Fitzpatrick to be treated. Did they take it away with them before Christmas when they went for their "break"?

Now it emerges that the Queen has had her say in not allowing Harry to keep his military connections alive alongside other privileges that he hoped to carry on with. He has commented that he is sad that this has happened so it was not part of the path he saw himself following after the split.

All looks like someone has upset Meghan and she has flounced off leaving Harry to try to smooth things out with his family and his employers.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

My understanding is that she didn't participate in a video link.

Perhaps some folk will start to appreciate that when it comes to a "parting of the ways" it is rare for everyone to get everything that they want and usually the "bigger" partner gets the biggest say.

Gordon


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds to me like a silly little girl married a Prince in search of a fairytale, and a Prince who thought he could just give up princing.

It's a bit sad.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The thing is she is not a silly girl. She has been married before. She has held down a demanding career. I think she knew exactly what she was getting into and thought she could handle it. Well it turns out she couldn't. Being Royal is not an easy ride. Yes they are incredibly privileged but they all work really hard. And they have to suffer 24/7 media attention not just when a production company send them on a promotional tour.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Just amazed at the outrage, it’s not like we didn’t know they are a dysfunctional family, with many of them making atrocious life choices, with perhaps the exception of Liz, what’s to hold in high esteem?

The British press delight in setting folk up on pedestals only to knock them down. Sadly it’s also an indication that the public are complicit as they buy their rubbish packed papers.

They’ve bitched about the cash the couple got but conveniently forget the millions their wedding brought into the country.

Good luck to them I say, although I think they’re naive to think they can escape the clutches of their detractors.

Terry


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

It would appear most are anti Meghan and I would suggest its mostly the UK press at fault after all they did a similar hatchet job on Corbyn. For my part I still think she has been a very welcome breath of fresh air into a very dysfunctional family.


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

I hope they can just got in with their lives away from the media 

Thing is though, how will they get on being just plain old Mr. and Mrs. Harry Hewitt?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I wonder how many organisations will invite them as Harry and Meghan Windsor or will they be the "people formerly known as Prince or Duke and Duchess" ?

There is no easy way ahead and I somehow doubt that Her Maj has decided this route, it smacks too much of the Establishment spouting forth in exactly the same way as Princess Margaret was stopped from marrying a divorced person - Group Captain Peter Townsend.

I know the Queen has given them a 12 month cooling off period to establish whether they can survive (literally) bereft of financial, social and security support. Perhaps that is the straw that she hopes they will grasp, but Meghan's father is being a real bar steward and is determined to wreck whatever he cannot have..,,.

Sorry, my error for putting in wrong name, thanks Alan


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Peter Townsend?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Correct, my error...


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

erneboy said:


> Peter Townsend?


Who 🙂


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

dghr272 said:


> Who 🙂


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Townsend_(RAF_officer)

Read about his "Later life"


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> dghr272 said:
> 
> 
> > Who 🙂
> ...


Yeah Dave, sorry I was joshing with this guy of a similar name.

Terry


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

dghr272 said:


> Who 🙂


Not this one 🤦🏼
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Townshend


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Ozzyjohn said:


> dghr272 said:
> 
> 
> > Who 🙂
> ...


Yeah, thought my smilie might have been a clue.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

dghr272 said:


> Yeah, thought my smilie might have been a clue.


Your smilies are not smilies for me, neither is Ozzyjohn's on your post Terry, just a lot of rubbish 🙂

Good timing this parting of the waves, giving people something else to talk about other than the important stuff.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

JanHank said:


> Your smilies are not smilies for me, neither is Ozzyjohn's on your post Terry, just a lot of rubbish 🙂
> 
> Good timing this parting of the waves, giving people something else to talk about other than the important stuff.


Yep, the British press are very good at that but then they have been doing it for years.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

As a non Royalist I can’t really see what all the fuss is about 

They won’t be the first or last couple eager to remove themselves from the clutches of the family they were born into 

I think Diane was also hounded by the press and she wasn’t always the people’s princess 

I doubt they will need to use food banks to survive 

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

JanHank said:


> Your smilies are not smilies for me, neither is Ozzyjohn's on your post Terry, just a lot of rubbish 🙂


Ooh, so I'm not the only one who can't get smilies to work properly?!?

And I've been feeling lonely for such a long time! Welcome Terry!!


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

jiwawa said:


> Ooh, so I'm not the only one who can't get smilies to work properly?!?
> 
> And I've been feeling lonely for such a long time! Welcome Terry!!


Here you go, just to cheer you up.:wink2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::wink2:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I can see your smilies perfectly GG - maybe Jan's the one with the problem?!?! 😂😂


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

jiwawa said:


> I can see your smilies perfectly GG - maybe Jan's the one with the problem?!?! 😂😂


Lol


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

jiwawa said:


> I can see your smilies perfectly GG - maybe Jan's the one with the problem?!?! 😂😂


Whats all this then Jean.? ?!?! 😂😂

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I can see everybody's smilies - but I'm guessing others can't?!

I shall desist!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> I can see your smilies perfectly GG - maybe Jan's the one with the problem?!?! 😂😂


Jan has a few problems, but not with other peoples smilies cept them there people in oiland :grin2:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

JanHank said:


> Jan has a few problems, but not with other peoples smilies cept them there people in oiland /images/MotorhomeFacts_2014/smilies/tango_face_grin.png


Ooh, do you think the Bxxxxx wall has gone up already?!


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> Ooh, do you think the Bxxxxx wall has gone up already?!


:-D

iPad generated with : - D


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Mine is a lowly android Terry, using the mobile EMV - I suspect that's where the problems lie.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

😄

iPhone on EMV

Terry

Edit, when I view it on iPhone it looks correct however when viewed on iPad it's gibberish


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Looks good to me Terry.

Sorry Pat, for hijacking the thread.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Personally I wish them well she undoubtedly couldn't have realised despite warnings just what a **** country this is for the famous, I feel that she has instigated the move, can anyone blame her, just a young couple wanting to be happy and have a future, I think it's a brave move.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I have just read the thoughts of a psychotherapist/hypnotherapist who is asking if Meghan might be a narcissist. She points out that they are typically controlling ("What Meghan wants Meghan gets") and will try to remove a person from their immediate family as a first step in controlling them. We already know the reports of falling out with William and Kate. Did she instigate that? Then she takes Harry away for Christmas. Now we have the latest episode. She was very controlling over baby Archie and the release of any photos. Is her behaviour at the route of all her previous relationship issues?


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Interesting Pat.

I wonder if she will go back to suits to earn a living.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

She has, apparently, got a job doing voice overs for Disney. Well that is the rumour.


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