# Help needed re tow cars



## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Right Guys and Gals 

Now we have another van with a tow bar on it we are looking to change our Renault Scenic for a smaller car to tow behind us I need a little bit of help sorting out just what we can tow and what we cannot tow. :roll: 

Plate on M/H has 3500kgs 5500kgs 1850kgs 2120kgs nothing by them as to what they are :roll: 

I should imagain that we take the 3500kgs away from the 5500kgs to leave us with 2000kgs which is the weight we can tow is this correct please. If not can somebody tell me what is correct :roll: 

Now we have been looking at the Smart Car (although I think we may have gone of this), Citroen C1 or C2, Fiat Panda 1.0 Vibe, Daewoo Matiz, and the French Aixam which is automatic so i'm not sure if this could be towed does anybody have any idea. Is it the Gross vehicle weight I have to look for on the tow car or the unladen weight its all as clear as mud to me.

If anyone has any other suggestions please let us know, polite ones only please. :lol: 

All suggestions gratefully accepted 

Thanks 


Jacquie


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

hi Jacquie

you are right 2000kg it is.
I have just changed the Smart for a C3 Pluriel very pleased upto now and some excellent deals on pre registered ones.

Light and can be a soft top if you wont, I am just down the road more than welcome to come and have look. www.citroen.co.uk/Level2/flashpage.asp?pagetype=pluriel

Roy


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Towing*

Hi Jacquie

It looks like 5500 kg is your maximum train weight - ie weight of the loaded van plus a trailer.

The maximum weight of the van appears to be 3500 kg.

I do not think you should tow an automatic - but maybe GEO can comment.

I bought a Corsa 1.2 - weighed 1004 kg. I am pleased with it. Cheap to insure, 50 to the gallon and a good spec, air con, CD, electric windows/mirrors etc

If the trailer (ie the towcar) is over 750 kg GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT, you will need a braking system . The only car - that I am aware of that weighs 750 or less when full of people is the little French Axiam.

A Smart weighs about 700 kg - that is the car alone - not its GVW.

What does the Scenic weigh? I am not familiar with the car - is it like a Corsa or a Vectra in size?

I really like having the car with me. Obviously as a full timer it is a bit more essential than for holidays etc, but even at New Year at Brandy Whart, I had the car with me and was able to nip out etc

Russell


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

It partly depends on what licence type you have. If you have a full category C1 and you passed your test before 1997, you can tow a combined weight of 8250 kg. The towed load however cannot weigh more than the towing vehicle.

There are many references on the net to this, but these may help:-

http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/faqs/?department=Technical+-+Driving+Licences+and+the+Law

Dougie.


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## JustRadio (May 21, 2005)

All I can say is that I'm delighted with my Panda multijet diesel, but I tow it on a trailer so it's a slightly different situation to the one you plan, but still I love it, handy, very nippy, and hard to keep legal on the motorway.

Only getting 59 mpg at the mo, it's a right foot problem I thnk!


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

asprn said:


> It partly depends on what licence type you have. If you have a full category C1 and you passed your test before 1997, you can tow a combined weight of 8250 kg. The towed load however cannot weigh more than the towing vehicle.
> 
> There are many references on the net to this, but these may help:-
> 
> ...


Very good point, Dougie.

Russell


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Takeaflight Roy I might just take up up on that thanks for imput

Rapide565 Russell I think the Scenic would be to big to tow and its automatic any way also want to downsize for cheaper tax and insurance and want a newer car

Asprn Dougie yes we both have C1 licence so thats ok

Neverremberit John Yes I must admit I rather like the look of the Panda's John likes the Citroen but he also suggested the Ford KA


Thanks all for your coments

We would be towing on a A frame either braked or unbraked if this helps do we have to include the weight of the A frame with the car as well?

Jac


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*A frame*

Hi Jacquie

I guess the weight of the A frame would be "shared" between the van and car.

For some prices of nearly new cars, look here

www.dccookdirect.co.uk

I dealt with them and they stuffed everybody on price. There was a mix up with the log book, but they apologised and knocked a bit of cash off the car.

I think my A frame weighs about 25KG. Purely a guess and based on picking it up to use etc.

When I tow the Corsa, I try to make sure it has onl about a 1/4 tank of fuel in it - just keeps the weight down a bit.

Russell


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

LadyJ said:


> We would be towing on a A frame either braked or unbraked if this helps do we have to include the weight of the A frame with the car as well?
> Jac


Hi Jacquie,

The weight of the "A" frame would have to be included in the total equation, but need not be included in the car's gross vehicle weight.

The brackets that are fixed to the car,would though.

You should not exceed the manufacturers reccomended weights for loading / towing.

I hope this helps. 

Jock.


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## Evolution (Aug 1, 2005)

We were getting rid of two cars and had always had at least one largish car, so the decision to sell both and get a small car was hard. We got a copy of What Car, went through it and made a list of everything which weighed a ton or less (and we also wanted aircon). We crossed out one or two we really didn't fancy, then went and looked at everything else on the list.

There were two surprises, on the list was the Audi A2, which has an aluminium shell and is therefore very light. It is quite a large car and has all sorts of bells and whistles but was too expensive for us. Secondly, and almost overlooked because we simply didn't fancy it was the Honda Jazz. Guess what we bought? It is quite a big "small" car, so it is still very comfortable for four people and for long journeys on the motorway. Better still, the way the back seats fold up and away is pure magic, so ingenious, and gives us almost as much space as we had in our previous estate car.

We have had an A-frame fitted by Pro-Tow in Poole and it tows like a dream behind our 2.8 Fiat motorhome.

Can thoroughly recommend both the car and the A-frame system. We couldn't physically manage a trailer, and the other advantage is that there is very little noseweight which is important since we are quite close to our back axle weight anyway.


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

Have you ever seen, heard or driven an Aixam :?:

they should be :rightfighter5: IMO

Have you also checked running costs, service intervals, RFL and insurance details? Look at Autotrader Autotrader web site car comparisons

Our Smart is £40 RFL, £120 insurance (56 year in Bristol) NO NCB (used on other car) Service every 3 years.


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Jock i'm getting more confused by the minuet :roll: 

Right so if we purchased say the Citroen C1 which according to the brochure says it weight is 1160kgs Gross Vehicle Weight then we have to add the bracket that is fixed to the car to this weight which Russell recons is about 25kg that makes 1185kgs altogether which is under the 2000kgs that we have to play with. 


Jac


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Jacquie,

It's the "A" frame that Russell estimated to weigh in at 25kgs, not the fixing brackets on the car.

Jock.


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Hi DJP Dennis 
only reason we have gone of the Smart it is only 2 seats and at times we do really need 4 seats but yes I have seen the reviews on the Axiam and have also actually seen one live in our Asda car park :lol: 

Hi Evolution

Honda Jazz another one to add to me list then do you know what the weight is please ta


Jacquie


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

> Honda Jazz another one to add to me list then do you know what the weight is please ta


1013kg
For Honda Jazz Hatchback 1.4 i-DSI SE

Ok I understand the need for 4 seats. That is why I said a couple of weeks ago we may want to change our Smart at some time as we now have 2 x 2 seater cars (Smart and Audi TT). 
The Matiz appealed to me as it is available relatively cheaply in comparrison to some of the cars on your list :lol: 
I would also say I have seen many cars towed on A frames. The Smart and the Matiz do seem to be the most popular choice, me thinks :roll:


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Jock your confusing things a little. The whole weight of the car and A frame would be the towed weight because the whole of it is the trailer not just the car and fixing pins/brackets. Lady J has plenty of spare weight there to play with anyway. Russells idea of a Corsa is a very sound one, we have the Agila which is also Vauxhall, has the same engine as the Corsa but is a bit roomier inside for taller bigger people, both weigh just over 1000kg which is a sensible weight to tow. This will give you some valuable spare capacity so that you can stow some items in the car like chairs, water carriers, kids toys, sports equipment etc that will if your not careful put the main motorhome over its weight limit if you stow them in there. The main thing to remember where vehicle weight limits are involved is to spread the weight on all available axles which when towing a car on an A frame or trailer includes those axles.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Weights*



LadyJ said:


> Thanks Jock i'm getting more confused by the minuet :roll:
> 
> Right so if we purchased say the Citroen C1 which according to the brochure says it weight is 1160kgs Gross Vehicle Weight then we have to add the bracket that is fixed to the car to this weight which Russell recons is about 25kg that makes 1185kgs altogether which is under the 2000kgs that we have to play with.
> 
> Jac


Hello

The Gross Vehicle Weight is the weight of the car and its contects (ie people amongst other things.)

The Citroen C1 weighs about 830 KG empty.

See here....

http://www.citroen.co.uk/level4/technicalSpecification.asp?pagetype=c1&style=&infoID=21

Russell


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Whilst we are on the subject what are peoples thoughts on the Renault Clio. We have an 05 1.5 diesel and would be pulling her on an a frame with a euromobil 2.5 turbo diesal. Any thoughts. 

Hope you don't mind me asking Jac, info might of use to you as well


stew


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Cor ive just looked at the price of the Honda Jazz thats been knocked of me list now :lol: 

I want cheapish well under £5000 £40 tax bracket and low insurance group 1 or 2


Jacquie


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Hi Stew,

I love the Clio and did look at it but its a bit on the heavy side for towing I would think.


Jac


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## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

Hi Jacquie,

Take a look at this site (when it's up again, very realiable normally) you can get loads of info on all cars from there. >>>Parkers<<<

MHS…Rob


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## 97594 (Feb 7, 2006)

hi lady j, go and look at fiat panda for towing you won"t be dissapointed


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Euramobil plus tow car*

Hi Stew

I would guess the Clio weighs about the same as a Corsa. I can't get the Clio page to open at www.renault.co.uk

I would guess your train weight for the Euramobil would be about 6000/6500 kg.

Out of interest, what are the figure for your home?

Russell


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

TonyHunt said:


> Jock your confusing things a little. The whole weight of the car and A frame would be the towed weight because the whole of it is the trailer not just the car and fixing pins/brackets.


Hi Tony,

T'was not my intention to confuse Jacquie. However the GVW of the car does not include the "A" frame as it is not part of the car, but like I said before, it will have to come into the total equation, ie, the GTW. The fixing brackets on the car are only likely to weigh about a kilo, (a bag of sugar in imperial terms :lol: ), if that.

If you stored the "A" frame in the boot when not needed, it would take up needed payload perhaps, but does not alter the manufacturers GVW, which must not be exceeded in compliance with the law.

Personally, I would be as keen to keep the weight of the tow car under 1000kgs *if possible*, thereby reducing the strain on the prime mover, and the driver/s, in varying situations. This would also allow a bit of reserve with regards to " power to weight ratio".

Jock.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Russell

I will check tommorrow about the euromoby but I am sure the car is about 1200kgs


stew


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## 96583 (Oct 28, 2005)

Take a look at the Hyundai Amica - its small light has 5 doors and best of all Hyundai have so much faith in it they put 5 years unlimited mileage warranty on the thing. www.hyundai.co.uk


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: Euramobil plus tow car*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi Stew
> I would guess your train weight for the Euramobil would be about 6000/6500 kg.
> Out of interest, what are the figure for your home?
> Russell


Hi Russell,

Stew's MH is on the same chassis as our E 690, and "Takeaflight's" B 694, which means that the GVW will be about 4500kg and the GTW will only be about 5200kg, leaving a small allowance of 700kg for towing.

I do believe that the chassis / axle weights may be uprated without major changes to the suspension / axles.

Jock.


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Aixam disrespect*

I got an Aixam, and used it extensively during recent 5 weeks away in Fance & Spain. Towed it "in" a trailer, normally used for my motorycyle.
They are suposed to be 4 seats, but us 2 six foot plus persons needed the seats right back, so no room for passengers then.
As to the disrespectful reports, they are intended as shopping town cars, and in France & Spain, can be driven on a bike licence. Many to be seen over there. 
There are diesel versions, which are very sluggish and noisy, but mine is petrol, good for 60 + mph, fair acceleration if revs are used, and comfortable enough for "the intended purpose".
Took it up into the Pyrenees, along a piece of auto way in Spain (navigational error) and around many minor roads in town and country, where bigger cars could not go, and it proved the right choice for us. 
Not as good as our Mercs, but fit for the intended purpose.


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## Proff (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi all.
I tow a Pug 106 diesel behind my VWLT 5500 gtw [gross train weight]
Using a towtal braked A frame.
No problems from anyone, inc French police putting me on weighbridge last year.
my avatar show the rig, IMHO you need a rear view camera, as without one, I could have had a lot bigger problem than a puncture
Noticed it "jigging"on screen and stopped, did NOT notice anything in Motorhomes handling. result one new tyre. could have been worse, alloy's are pricey :roll:


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Hi All,

Just thought I'd let you know that the decision on the tow car has been made :roll: :lol: we have just purchased a Chevorlet Matiz 1.0 SE. Reason why we went for this is, it is a bit smaller and lighter than the Panda (which we really liked) and we got a really good deal on trade in of the Scenic but thats another story.

Now all we have to do is get A frame sorted out :roll: :lol: 


Jacquie


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gang thought i'd show you a piccy of the new tow vehicle Coral and the new baby car which is now all fitted with its new Chris Cox A Frame bits. Chris came and collected the car on Monday evening and brought it back on Tuesday afternoon, must say i'm impressed so far with all that has been done by Chris. We have yet to try towing the car with the Coral that could be fun as we usually end up down a no entry road at least once when ever we venture out :lol: so if you see us up your road trying to unhitch the car please come and give us a hand :lol: 

Jacquie


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Nice looking van Jac...well done!


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Tow car*

Hi

Well done. It really is easy coupling up - just take your time! I keep a pair of rubber gloves in the car boot as coupling up can be a dirty job!

Russell


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## Leapy (May 15, 2005)

Nice set up Jacquie-only thing missing is Taxi sign for roof of car!!!!





Leapy


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Thanks M&D gotta last this lot has broke now :lol: 


Good idea Russell will put some rubber glove in the car.


Whats the going rate for taxi's now Leapy :lol: 


Jacquie


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