# Nasty dog



## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

My good lady was walking Pirate today when he was attacked by two Afghan type hounds. They were on leads, but the woman wasn't strong enough to pull the vicious one off Pirate who was bowled over and bitten enough to draw blood.

She had warned my wife that this dog did sometimes attack others, but my wife wasn't quick enough to get Pirate out of the way.

He is feeling very sorry for himself and is whingeing quite a bit.He is walking a bit stiffly so probably has some bruising. If he isn't better in the morning then a trip to the vet will be on the agenda.

My point here is if you know that your dog attacks others, either take it out at midnight, shoot the damn thing or at least put a muzzle on it.


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## rocky1968 (Nov 10, 2011)

*?*

the taliban get every where


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Dogs should be under control at all times. What has the Taliban to do with it  

Dick


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Non-PC stereotyping again - the theme of the day!


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Having owned Afghans in the past I find that amazing. They have such a 'superiority' complex that wouldn't attack another dog for fear of catching 'something' .

tony


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

That's completely shattered my image, I always believed pirates to be
all rufty-tufty.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

My view is that dogs should be under control at all times,that could be on the lead or in close proximity to the owner.I have 2 (in my avatar) that have a completely different outlook towards other dogs,one is very friendly and playful,the other,when challenged is incredibly fierce and would never back down in a fight.

Because of this they are both kept on a lead at all times in public places.The problems occur when other dogs approach us,I try and warn the owner to keep their dogs away but it sometimes falls on deaf ears. 

I have no intention of taking them out at midnight,shooting him(he's my most loyal friend)or putting a muzzle on him.

I have considered the latter but discounted it,if a loose dog attacks him then he must be allowed the right to defend himself.I certainly don't want my dog fighting but if he does it will never be my fault and I think it is only right that the aggressive dog requires vets treatment and not mine.

He is under my control at all times so I shouldn't be liable for any vets bills when an out of control dog attacks him.


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## MrsW (Feb 8, 2009)

Hope Pirate feeels lots better very soon!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

wakk44 said:


> My view is that dogs should be under control at all times,


and the law's as wayward owners have discovered in the past....

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

"_*It's against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:

in a public place

in a private place where the dog isn't allowed to be (eg a neighbour's house or garden without permission)

The law applies to all dogs*_"

Dave


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

its not funny, ive had a loose dog rush up from nowhere when we were out walking our yorkie on a lead baying for her blood, its only my quick thinking (scooping her up and sorry ... kicking the dog off as my only defence )and fending it off for 2 minutes before the owner turns up, there response... a shrug of the shoulders (spanish ). if their dog had hurt mine in any shape or form id be after their blood and vet bill payments !!!!


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## namder (Sep 20, 2006)

It seems to me that the OP's dog was off the lead and therefore not under the owners direct control. How else could a dog on a lead attack it. Wakk44 has got it right. 

John


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## shingi (Apr 18, 2008)

bazzeruk said:


> My good lady was walking Pirate today when he was attacked by two Afghan type hounds. They were on leads, but the woman wasn't strong enough to pull the vicious one off Pirate who was bowled over and bitten enough to draw blood.
> 
> She had warned my wife that this dog did sometimes attack others, but my wife wasn't quick enough to get Pirate out of the way.
> 
> ...


My old dog was a 'bruiser' and I'd had him from a puppy although I didn't get him neutered (big mistake.) He would go for ANY male dog no matter how big or small and he once tried to attack two dobermans!!! If it was female it was safe but, my God, if it was male he'd be off trying to rip it to bits, or that's what it looked like and I would be screaming MAX....... a la FENTONas in Youtube. In the end and quite soon into his early life, and he lived until he was 12, he stayed on the lead. I would NEVER have muzzled him though just in case he was attacked by a dog like him as he would have had no chance of defending himself.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

shingi said:


> bazzeruk said:
> 
> 
> > My good lady was walking Pirate today when he was attacked by two Afghan type hounds. They were on leads, but the woman wasn't strong enough to pull the vicious one off Pirate who was bowled over and bitten enough to draw blood.
> ...


IMO any dog that is aggressive enough to attack another dog should be muzzled so we always muzzle our lurcher as he is nuts. The other day a free to roam Doberman turned up and charged at us so I released the muzzle from our dog but (thank goodness) the Dobie decided not bother. 
A muzzle on a dog is a safety precaution but not a total handicap.


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## selstrom (May 23, 2005)

Have you reported the incident to the Police?


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

selstrom said:


> Have you reported the incident to the Police?


Hi.

No, reported to us..

Dogs are dogs are dogs, pack animals with that instinct engraved in every fiber of their make up, and as such think with their instinct..

Where as humans think that their fluffy little treasure they lavish love and affection on, is an extension of their human behaviour..

It's not. Dogs fight thats their real job.

ray.


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## padraigpost (Dec 8, 2010)

namder said:


> It seems to me that the OP's dog was off the lead and therefore not under the owners direct control. How else could a dog on a lead attack it. Wakk44 has got it right.
> 
> John


I fail to see how you could assert that the OP`s dog was off the lead unless you are psychic, I have had occasions when walking my dog on the lead when other dogs also on leads have made a sudden lunge at my dog and its owner was not strong enough to hold it back, fortunatly I have been able to shield or get mine out of the way others may not have been able to do this in time


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

To put some semblance of balance.

We have two hulking labs. Soft as putty (If you are a burglar reading this they will rip you limb from limb if you enter the house) lol

One loves people but bounces up to say hello but is scared of any dogs so messy jeans a big problem. 
The other loves dogs rushes up to other dogs to say hello and then fusses people. 
We live in the country and walk the dogs on the edge of the moors
they don't mind sheep or horses and ignore them.

When in what we consider public spaces they walk on leads with halties on (they are strong dogs)
When on the edge of the moors they are let off the lead it's a big dog walking area sometimes deserted sometimes busy.

Once our dogs rushed up to a lady with a little dog on a lead.
She picked the dog up and was holding it at head height and this little dog was barking and snarling at my two.

I had shouted to the lady that they were both nice.
She accused my dogs of attacking when they had just rushed up to say hello.

Her dog seemed far more aggressive.

Sometimes when dogs are on Leads they become more defensive/aggressive.

When off leads dogs usually fairly quickly get over the warning growl and suss each other out.

If your dog is aggressive a lead makes very little difference and in my opinion it should have a muzzle. If your dog is not aggressive 
it should be allowed off leads in sensible areas. in reality you are asking owners to assess and control their dogs appropriately. Letting dogs off the lead and allowing them to play with and occasionally have fall outs with other dogs improves a dogs ability to be social with other animals and people.


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## spencer (Feb 2, 2009)

Its not always the dogs fault , the dog owner in this case failed to control the dog - They have not got the ability to train the dog - this type of IDIOT should not be able to have dogs............


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## Remus (Feb 10, 2011)

To answer an earlier question. Unless the law has changed the police won't be interested in a dog on dog attack. My dog was injured in an unprovoked attack and, more recently a neighbours small bitch was killed by another bitch. Coincidentally both attacking dogs were Great Danes. In both cases the attackers owners made financial reparations but this was only due to their guilty consciences and not through any legal compulsion. In my case even the dog wardens weren't interested. They wouldn't even write a letter to the other owner despite the fact that, after some investigation, I'd got written statements from five other dog owners whose animals had been attacked (one fatally) by the same Great Dane?


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

If this dog had attacked a cat, rat, bird.....would we be having the same conversation

Probably not.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

When I take my dogs out it is to enjoy the countryside with my faithful companions and hopefully meet some other dog lovers,have a chat and generally be sociable.

I certainly don't want my dogs to get involved in a fight,it's no fun at all trying to separate 2 dogs,it can and has led to problems with other dog owners in the past.

Since I realised my Kerry Blue Terrier must be kept on the lead at all times at about 18 months of age I have never been at fault for him getting into a fight,it has ALWAYS been the other dog owners to blame with their dog being off the lead and approaching us.

I do try and shoo the other dog away and get between them but sometimes it is not possible with a determined dog.It puts me in a difficult situation,I don't want my dog fighting and risking injury(he's my best mate)and yet if he is attacked then I would sooner the aggressor require vets treatment.


Kev1 said:


> ....................
> When off leads dogs usually fairly quickly get over the warning growl and suss each other out.
> If your dog is aggressive a lead makes very little difference and in my opinion it should have a muzzle.............


In a perfect world that scenario would be great,letting the dogs sort it out between themselves,unfortunately this could lead in a serious fight to the finish.

As regards a muzzle,I do put one on him if we go to a show rally and there are lots of dogs in close proximity,this works well as all other dogs are on the lead under control and there is little chance of a fight breaking out.

In response to Kev above,I would like to describe an unfortunate situation that happened to me a couple of years ago.

I was walking the dogs along one of our local trails,both on the lead and under control.I could see a man approaching with 2 large Rottweilers,both off the lead and not under control,I shouted to him and asked him to get his dogs on a lead as one of mine could be aggressive.

He looked at my terriers and laughed,I couldn't believe his reaction,2 huge Rottweilers bearing down on us out of control was hardly a laughing matter.It put me in a terrible situation and I had to make a split second decision-do I keep him on the lead and let the dogs rip him to pieces or let him go and fend for himself.

With some trepidation I decided to let him go,I was extremely worried that he could be seriously injured or even worse and it was not an easy decision.

The Kerry Blue Terrier is an incredible street fighter and he left both Rottweilers needing vets treatment,he was unmarked.It's not something I am proud of and would have done anything to avoid the confrontation,however I was left with little choice.

The other dog owner and I had a hell of a job trying to prise my dog's jaw open,he was locked on to the rottweilers face and we couldn't prise his jaws apart.

After a few minutes we somehow managed to get him off,I don't know how we did it in all the confusion.I thought I might have a problem with the other dog owner as his dogs were in a poor state, but he just looked at Ky and said ''what sort of dog is that and where can I get one''.

If he had been wearing a muzzle I dread to think what could have happened.

I wish owners of powerful boisterous dogs would keep them on a lead at all times,it would make life a lot easier for those of us unfortunate enough to have a dominant dog that will never back down when challenged.


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Steve
I sympathise love my dogs too and it must have been really stressful and upsetting

But your dog came off best.

I think a lot can be interpreted from the other owners comment about where can i get one like yours.

Most situations never come anywhere near what you went through.

The dogs just have a sniff and suss each other out ocasionaly a growl
very occasionally they have a snap and mine usually just walk off


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## Jodi1 (Mar 25, 2010)

My elderly golden retriever has always been a bit iffy with other dogs after being chased by an over friendly dog who only wanted to play, but scared my dog to death. Ever since she has expected all dogs to attack her and behaves accordingly. Over the years she has been more relaxed with certain dogs, ones from her own breed or small white coloured dogs for some reason and border terriers. I keep her on the lead if anyone is about and only let her off if I'm sure I can get her back or no one is in sight. She is now deaf and unless she looks back and sees our hand signals she doesn't realise we want her so nowadays she is more often or not on her lead. I took her to training classes, not that she really needed it, but to try and resocialise her with other dogs, but she was scared silly, wouldn't respond to any commands and wouldn't even have a treat as a reward for doing anything. After four weeks we gave up. Tried dog agility which was more successful as she enjoyed that and it took her mind off the other dogs and she relaxed a little, but the following year she tore a cruciate so we stopped going.

A couple of years ago we were walking on a beach with the dog on the lead and a lady came towards us with two Weimaraners off lead. I instinctively shortened lead and bought the dog in close to heel and slightly behind. One of the Weimaraners came bounding over and attacked my dog flattening her, then ran off. The owner shouted at me that it was MY fault for having MY dog on a lead! Can't win can you.

Most dogs are friendly and want to play, but large young dogs can frighten their smaller brethren and frankly I think it makes sense to either have your dog on a lead or under control when approaching others. I have had dogs for years and all have been friendly to other dogs and people apart from the dog we have now. However, not everyone is dog friendly and may have children with them, so allowing a dog to rush up and perhaps scare people is not nice. Go to dog training not only for your dog, but also for you.


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi jodi
We only let the dogs off
when we know we are ina dog walking area that that is acceptable
Kev


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## Jodi1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Agree Kev and a good place to do so if there is one. We live in the country and walk our dogs in the fields along public footpaths, so I tend to be careful when other people hove into sight, just in case really. My dog is over fourteen but still pretty feisty for her age and is still inclined to want to rush up to a strange dog and bark at them, sort of laying down the law I suppose. So shes on the lead most of the time.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Aggressive behaviour is entirely preventable if every dog is properly socialised during the "critical" period of the first 14 weeks of life. If they miss out on that, or something happens to make them fearful of dogs, then they will act in one of three ways - Fight/Flight/Freeze. My rescue lurcher chooses to freeze and I am so grateful for that. 
A previous rescue GSD chose to fight and although he never managed to hurt another dog it was a close run thing at times. I spent hours and hours taking him to places where he could see, but not be too close to, other dogs. After several years he got a lot calmer around other dogs. His nature was one of a very loving, soft dog but fear of other dogs made him act aggressively to drive them away. All of this could have been prevented if his original owner had bothered to socialise him properly.

Tightening the lead is the worst thing you can do if a dog is fearful of/aggressive to other dogs. Much better to teach a really reliable sit while keeping the dog occupied with promises of treats to distract him.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree with a lot of what's said but it needs training on both sides.

It is totally unacceptable for your dogs to rush up to anyone. If they are allowed off the lead then total training is the only reason this should happen and that means stop/sit/stay or whatever command is used to stop the animal and if need be make it sit should be there. If not they stay on leads.

The lady who held her dog up was probably as scared as her dog who may well have been attacked in the past. And l have every sympathy no matter how pathetic it looked to you. 

It isnt easy with regards muzzles but if your dog is aggressive even if it is defending itself and someone else gets bitten don't be surprised if it gets taken off you and a good chance of being put to sleep (whatever the breed) 

With regards to dogs being attacked the police are a waste of time as are rspca you need to report it to your local dog warden and if in manchester l assure you they will deal with it.


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## Kev1 (Apr 4, 2011)

our last 3 dogs have been rescue dogs
you get what you get
But the owners need to properly assess the dogs inherant 
tendancies


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Shadow was a gentle dog, loved other dogs we had to be careful if they were small because of his huge paws

now we cannot let him off lead unless we are sure no dogs are around
he just seems to be aggressive and we cant understand why

will take him to the German shepherd club and see if that can sort him

I no longer enjoy walking with him as Albert says he is so much better if you don,t come 8O

Aldra


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## namder (Sep 20, 2006)

padraigpost said:


> namder said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me that the OP's dog was off the lead and therefore not under the owners direct control. How else could a dog on a lead attack it. Wakk44 has got it right.
> ...


I did say "It appears to me"

John


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

aldra said:


> Shadow was a gentle dog, loved other dogs we had to be careful if they were small because of his huge paws
> 
> now we cannot let him off lead unless we are sure no dogs are around
> he just seems to be aggressive and we cant understand why
> ...


He sounds like he is picking up on vibes from you then. German Shepherds are very sensitive dogs. I would skip the German Shepherd Club and engage a behaviourist from either COAPE or APBC. They will properly diagnose his problem and give you a plan to address it that is based on sound scientific learning.


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## Jodi1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Breeding seems to be highly significant in how a dog will react. Certain breeds seem to be prone to acting in certain ways. Highly intelligent dogs such as GSDs, collies etc, if not kept 'busy' seem to be more prone to acting up as if they are over thinking situations or being protective.

Interestingly, I discovered that perhaps some of the reason my current dog may be so reactive is due to her breeding. I found a number of people locally who had bought dogs from the same breeder from same litters using the same parents, had dogs that either were so fearful of other dogs that they would disappear and rejoin the owner after they were safely past, or act like mine and bark and growl. 

I have had goldies for over twenty five years and this is the first one who has been like this.

I have my eyes on a breeder whose dogs seem particularly friendly and calm and her dogs are PAT dogs, as I guess the old girl can't go on for ever even though she seems to be having a good go at it. At fourteen and a quarter this is the eldest dog I have had. I'm putting it down to the quality of the dog foods produced nowadays.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Jodi1 said:


> Breeding seems to be highly significant in how a dog will react. Certain breeds seem to be prone to acting in certain ways. Highly intelligent dogs such as GSDs, collies etc, if not kept 'busy' seem to be more prone to acting up as if they are over thinking situations or being protective.
> 
> Interestingly, I discovered that perhaps some of the reason my current dog may be so reactive is due to her breeding. I found a number of people locally who had bought dogs from the same breeder from same litters using the same parents, had dogs that either were so fearful of other dogs that they would disappear and rejoin the owner after they were safely past, or act like mine and bark and growl.
> 
> ...


Goldies have changed a lot in recent years. I worked with dogs and saw some terrible injuries inflicted by them.
You are right to research before you buy. Des Hawgood (now sadly deceased) was looking into pedigrees of Goldies that seemed more prone to aggression than others.
Dogs aren't born with an aggression gene as such but may be more sensitive and therefore become reactive. Just means they need much more careful socialisation so that they make pleasant associations with lots of different dogs. We used to say " a different dog a day" for our puppies.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree with Patp skip the german sheperd assoc. dare l say will be a lot of breeders and people who "know" what they are talking about and l the more they help the more you will wish you had gone to a proper behaviourist, but would say go with an APBT trainer. They are a lot more strict in their trainers requirements than COAPE (l found that out taking to a COAPE trainer who was going to do the APBT course)

http://www.capbt.org/
Generally a good behaviourist will insist that the dog is seen by a vet first to see there is no illness that may be underlying the problem. And a lot will ask you to be referred by the vet. if you live up north or can get up this end l would say see Sarah Heath ... BRILLIANT but is up this end near Chester not sure where you are.


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

It amazes me that there are some people prepared to seem to justify this attack, as though it was either my dog's fault for being too friendly or my wife's fault for not controlling Pirate.

The fact is that all three were on a narrow pathway. 

The dog that attacked was too strong for the owner and my wife was unable to pull Pirate away as the dog was already on top of him and biting before she realised what was happening.

He is better today, after an X-ray which was able to show no internal damage and a course of pain-killer and anti-biotics. Where the dog bit him is extremely swollen and it is no wonder he was in pain.

Luckily we have insurance.

To those of you who sympathised and made sensible comments - thankyou.

To those of you who seemed to justify the attack as being the nature of dogs or our fault and other stupid remarks, I would remind you that IF, God forbid, this dog had bitten a child it would have been, quite rightly, destroyed, whatever the circumstances.

Why on earth does anybody want to own an aggressive dog? What possible pleasure can it give except to the morons who see it as a status symbol?


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

bazzeruk said:


> Why on earth does anybody want to own an aggressive dog? What possible pleasure can it give except to the morons who see it as a status symbol?


Certainly not a status symbol for me,I find it embarrassing at times,when I bought him I had no idea he would turn into a fighter,but an alsatian bit him when he was about a year old and it changed him.

As I have explained,my aggressive dog is kept under strict close control at all times in public places,if there is an incident it will always be the other owner at fault.

The reason I keep him is because he is a real character and the most loyal,faithful,honest friend,companion and protector of the family anyone could wish for,he also loves kids especially our 20 month old granddaughter who rides on his back and loves him to bits,and that is certainly reciprocated.

I regard myself as a conscientious dog owner having owned dogs for nearly 40 years and certainly don't think of myself as a moron who needs a status symbol.

reason for edit:typo


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

bazzeruk said:


> It amazes me that there are some people prepared to seem to justify this attack, as though it was either my dog's fault for being too friendly or my wife's fault for not controlling Pirate.
> 
> The fact is that all three were on a narrow pathway.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but your being harsh....and it's not a justification....it's a fact of life.

If that dog had attacked a cat, rat, bird we wouldn't be having this conversation....dogs attack dogs (cats attack cats)...it's their nature just as humans attack humans (but I don't see us have big discussions on that subject).

You can spend years training animals...but they are still animals....it's called nature and it's way bigger than us.

You can spend all day arguing that owners should train their dogs etc...but not all do and never will so prevention is the only cure.

So next time you're out with the dog pay more attention to whats coming....and all this COULD be prevented next time.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Glad that Pirate is making a good recovery Bazzeruk.

You will now, most likely, have a dog that is fearful of Afghans 8O When he sees one he will have one of two options - fight or flight. 
The fear may spread to other dogs similar to Afghans. He will not be making a decision to flee/fight it will be an instinctive reaction. 
For all we know the Afghan may have been attacked and is invoking its fight/flight instinct.

Aggression is an instinctive reaction not a conscious decision.

I would suggest a chat with a qualified behaviourist to make sure that you handle the coming months and years in the right way for Pirate to cope with his ongoing emotional trauma.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Wakk44 your dog problem is solvable in fact most of the problems in here are but via he proper routes l posted the link in my last post. Would say for your pets sakes not just yours go that route. It isnt cheap but you will end up with a happy dog not a scared one who wants to bite first and a happy owner who isnt worried about what may/can/will happen.

Bazzeruk hope it all solves out with antiB rest and pain killers having also been a dog attack victim with multiple bites from a bull mastiff type dog (my total fault long story can not believbe l did what l did :roll: ) l can sympathise about what it feels like.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

You have my sympathy, but in all honesty what did you expect from a forum filled with old people that support a "****" joke and "****" is it right thread and an admin that doesnt clamp down on this sort of thing 
quote alberts




Irrespective of rights, wrongs, pc or what ever.
What I really don't like and gets up my nose (and it's a pretty big one) :lol: 
Is a first time poster who has contributed nothing good to the forum, having a pop at our members  
So sad


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> an admin that doesnt clamp down on this sort of thing


I am, and will, your posts have been removed. Please get this thread back on track


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

the reason we will take him back to the German Shepherd club is not for training as such but to allow him to interact close up with other dogs of the same size

It may well be that small dogs often growl or bark at him from the safety of their leads, now he no longer ignores such aggression and his hackles come up, he is however on a lead with head halter so can be persuaded to walk past and ignore. He rarely makes the first aggressive reaction. The problem for us is if he were off lead and a dog showed aggression he would not back off and ignore it

If he is nervous or aggressive around the club shepherds then he will remain on lead, a pity really as he loved to run and play with other dogs a year ago

I hope that Pirate is recovering well Bazzeruk and that he has no lasting effects

of course Shadow has had a few very traumatic months which may have affected him in many ways, certainly has made him much more "verbal" talks all the time now, obviously feels we need more help to understand his needs or wants :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aldra


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Our daughter has a dog, Elle, a Roti/Lab cross and she has a wonderful temperament. They both lived with us for many years and she is part of the family and we still often dog sit for hours, days and sometimes for a week or more.
What we have always found, is that the smaller yappy terrier dogs generally show much more aggression and Elle never makes the first move. She is inquisitive and will approach for a sniff, but that's all!
I remember last year, I was walking Elle along the canal off lead and a bit of a hard case came walking towards us with a Roti also off lead.
His Roti had a go at Elle and all he could do was laugh  
Luckily no harm was done!
I think a lot comes down to how a dog is treated and bought up from a puppy, but sometimes, I suppose what ever you do will make little difference. Anyway, I offer the best of luck to all the responsible dog owners here , I hope Pirate has a quick recovery and any problems are satisfactory sorted


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

As Barbara Woodhouse always used to say "there's no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners". Although she did also say later that some dogs were beyond retraining and control.


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

aldra said:


> the reason we will take him back to the German Shepherd club is not for training as such but to allow him to interact close up with other dogs of the same size
> 
> It may well be that small dogs often growl or bark at him from the safety of their leads, now he no longer ignores such aggression and his hackles come up, he is however on a lead with head halter so can be persuaded to walk past and ignore. He rarely makes the first aggressive reaction. The problem for us is if he were off lead and a dog showed aggression he would not back off and ignore it
> 
> ...


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## bazzeruk (Sep 11, 2010)

BrianJP said:


> As Barbara Woodhouse always used to say "there's no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners". Although she did also say later that some dogs were beyond retraining and control.


In general I would probably agree, but how does one account for the "one offs".

For example, my 14 year old nephew was greeted every day by the family's Great Dane that would trot up and nuzzle round my nephew's neck (not a practice I would agree with). One day, for no apparent reason, instead of a nuzzle, it was a nasty bite.

There are numerous examples of where a dog has "turned" with no real explanation.

Which is why, when someone posts that they let their granddaughter ride on the back of their dog it makes me shiver.

This practice was common years ago when it seemed dog attacks were rare, although it was probably just not reported.

Pirate is the sweetest dog I have ever known. We can take food from him and remove half swallowed mice from his mouth, but let our grandchildren pull on his coat or take liberties? - not on your life.

I wasn't going to bother to reply again to the posters who actually blamed my dog for getting himself bitten, but just thought - are these the same people who say of the girl who got raped "she was asking for it" or the old lady who got mugged "shouldn't have been walking out late at night" or a school teacher who goes off with his pupil "poor man, she must have led him on"?

This will no doubt invoke a plethora of responses, but this will be my last post on the subject - Pirate is on the mend and back to the happy waggy dog we love.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

A lot of attacks in fact all are obvious...to other dogs.

Just as dogs understand a few of our words we understand a few of their signs.

The problem is that we miss the build up of warnings and so when the attack comes it is to the animal a perfectly good reason.."l gave you/them lots of warnings" but to us it is "out the blue"

We need to think more like dogs to understand them more and think less of them as humans and godforbid "furbabies" *just off to wash my mouth out after that term*
Sadly even thinking more like dogs we will miss warnings but with luck less than are missed now.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Bazzeruk

I don't think that's true or fair

we have kept German Shepherds for 32 years

we have a problem with Shadow, but then again we have never had one who has gone so much trauma and pain, we should have known but we didnt, we thought he was just a wimp, the vet should have known but he just sedated him to give him a short time of peace

he loves our grandkids, they love him

you are hurt and it was not your fault that Pirate was attacked

It may or not be the fault of the attacker, but it was a dog 

maybe the owners are now aware after the shock

but those of us who have a problem really care that it should not hurt or involve another dog

If Shadow hurt another dog i would be devastated

but if I refused him access to my grandchildren he and they would be devastated

he loves then, they love him

its a different senario

Aldra


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