# Do I need a generator?



## Bella (May 14, 2005)

Hi,
We recently were on a 3 day rally without EHU;
we had hoped to survive with our single 110v leisure battery assisted by 80w solar panel & both leisure & vehicle batteries were well charged by the 200mile journey.

During the evening the satellite failed to find a signal; so we played cards by the light of 2 LEDs and listened to the radio.

Unfortunately it was very cold on the 1st night, and although only on a low setting (2-3) the Truma Blown Air heating was on quite a lot overnight. 

We were out most of the next day & the heating was off & it was very cloudy so when we checked the battery level on the panel we were shocked to see it already low.

In order at least have a couple of LEDs on & the heating on for part of the evening I switched on the ignition & ran the van for an hour on that & the subsequent evenings.

I have had the leisure battery status checked since then & there appears to be no fault in the charging & holding capacity.

So as I plan to do more off EHU rallies am I right to continue to use the vehicle as a generator or do I have to buy one??

By the way the leisure battery is housed in an outside locker and there is not room there two.

My previous M/H had 2 110v batteries housed internally but I didn't have a solar panel & we survived 5+ days off EHU.


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## Pilchards (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi, We have two 110 batteries and an 80w solar panel and that keeps us going well for four days without much loss but we haven't had to use the heater but we do use a tv for an hour or so an evening. This time of the year you won't get a lot of charge from the solar panel. Inside the battery compartment does the back wall back onto an interior cupboard, say under seats or next to the cabin area etc, if so perhaps you could fit another battery there with short cables going through to the other one. I think having the second battery would be the answer.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*solar*

I think the problem is your 80w solar panel, at best in Lancashire at this time of year will only give you around 12 amps a day. At that is on clear sunny days.

Overcast, be lucky if you get an amp or two.

I think you might need to upgrade your battery(ies).

I would not go down the genny route, that is my best recommendation. More weight, more hassle, having to get petrol or diesel or gas conversion. More to go wrong and more to maintain. Noisy, smelly and expensive.

TM


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## steco1958 (Mar 5, 2009)

Bella,

Look at the option of a larger Battery or increase to 2, you could even take another one with you, better still, can you increase the size of your solar, either double up or remove the 80w and install a 120 or larger, it depends on the space on your roof.

There are lots of options.

Steve


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Hi Bella,

I started with a motorhome in 1993 and due to the fact that we used CL's all the time we bought a 360W Kawasaki Generator. Since then we have never travelled without it, summer and winter. In 20 years we have never had a problem with a loss of power.

I use it as and when required during the day and keep it well insulated so as not to annoy others, and I've never had a complaint.

Drew


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## boringfrog (Sep 22, 2006)

*Heating*

Did you have your heating running overnight while you were sleeping?


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

I can't stand generators. I agree with Steco, increase the solar and battery capacity if you want to be independent. 

I believe the minimum is 240w solar and 2 x. 110ah battery. 
My single battery was in an external locker but i gave it away and had 3 x 110ah matched batteries installed inside instead. Never had to plug in since. The locker is used for other storage. 

If you are going the solar route then install sufficient or else go the generator route. 

The next is Sufficient LPG such as Gaslow for heating.


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## Bella (May 14, 2005)

Thanks for quick replies;

Yes, the heating was on low ; outside temp was below 4oC overnight.

Already have LPG tank ; so plenty of gas onboard; never had prob with sleeping whilst heating on. Always have dog's water bowl filled to keep air moistened.

Not sure about internal locker space available to fit in 2 110v batteries.

Is running vehicle battery as effective as using a generator??


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

110v battery that's a bigun



:wink:


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

A lot will depend on the charger size in your MH, some are not very good and although fine for long-term charging over a day, they won't always bring a 110AH battery back up to full charge in less than something like 8 hours.

The vehicle alternator will be 120A or thereabouts if a diesel and will do the job quicker, but it needs to be running at more than tickover to get the output.

Solar panels aren't the answer to all problems that some thing, and certainly you'd need 160W or more with a decent controller to get the benefit, and then you're into winter with the sun low in the sky....

Having an extra battery means you end up with twice or three times the quantity of flat batteries in the van if you don't do something about the charging.

So, I'd probably go for a generator and an uprated charger in the MH.

A small 1kVA petrol genny is going to be able to run a 12V 60A charger, and will make short work of recharging flat batteries, so you haven't got to run the generator all day.

You can buy 13.80V power supplies that work well as chargers on ebay, 29A units are about £40, you can go up to 100A for a couple of hundred pounds. If you search you'll find other outputs.

Peter


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

12V 50A power supply, adjustable:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-600W-..._Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item1e733c7c49

Peter


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## damar1 (Sep 29, 2012)

a 13.5 tog quilt, and we never have the heating on at night


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*THought*

Have you considered an EFOY Unit?

TM


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## adonisito (Nov 6, 2009)

We have 2 x 110a leisure batteries and often spend 4 days + off hook up in France in the winter. Our heating is by gas, the fridge is running on gas. We turn the heating off overnight and dive under the quilt. Those 2 batteries seem to cope very well running the lights, water pump, loo flush and watching a dvd at night. Mind you we also drive about 2 hours per day, so the batteries would charge themselves up a little.

However, all that is rather academic as needs and vans are different, to answer your post, I don't think you require a generator, have the batteries checked !


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## boringfrog (Sep 22, 2006)

*TOG*



damar1 said:


> a 13.5 tog quilt, and we never have the heating on at night


I don't understand why people are leaving the heating running overnight?


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

Bella said:


> By the way the leisure battery is housed in an outside locker and there is not room there two.


Therein lies the root of your problem. The low temperature has probably cut the effective capacity in half.

Your cheapest route to a solution is probably simply to relocate your existing leisure Battery. All of the other suggestions in earlier posts will further improve things.


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## peter_h (Oct 27, 2009)

After several years with Solar panels & a quiet Honda eu10i (small quiet suitcase 1kw genset) on Van change we went for an Efoy Fuel Cell System, totally silent and automatic, not the cheapest but now we don't worry about hook up or 'hassle' (loving the one less job to do).

Some numbers:
1 litre of methanol generates 100ah, our unit takes 5 litre cans 
and we carry a spare (so 10 litre in all) 

With our average consumption this gives us 
15 winter (ave 66ah / day) Days
or
30 summer (ave 33ah / day) Days

Off Hook up which works perfectly for our touring style

However if you are looking at consumptions above the 100 ah / day mark, this approach can get very expensive ..or put another way it's not great if someone want to run a 1800w Hair dryer off a large inverter for 30 mins each day !


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

bigtwin said:


> Therein lies the root of your problem. The low temperature has probably cut the effective capacity in half.


Although batteries are affected by temperature, you wouldn't lose anything like half the capacity of a lead-acid battery in the temperature ranges we are talking about. Nicads are far more affected by the cold, but even they wouldn't lose that much.

20% capacity loss with a temperature swing from +35 to -10 degrees C is typical, but there are better and worse examples.

Peter


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi,

It's hard to beat a small Honda generator for a number of reasons:-

Instant power and battery charging wherever and whenever you need it.

They are easy to start.

They are simple to use.

They are very clean.

Easy to find S/hand on eBay.

Easy to sell on eBay.

They don't smell when stored in the van.


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*We do*

Hi,
We have 245a/h battery (2 x 6volt Trojan) 80watt solar

On our last trip of 11 weeks with no EHU in the Isle of Man we used the gen set three times following extended tv use to watch MGP/F1/BSB/WSB otherwise we would have been ok

We do have a 1000va inverter so that the hairdryer can be used but I run the van engine for the 10 mins it takes so as to not deplete the battery

Do I need a gen set, yes, we camp all year and the solar panel is no help in the winter months and we dont like camp sites

Do you need one? used with consideration they are the most convenient source of independent power - you can buy petrol everywhere

Ray


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

In an ideal world we would all have everything and use it as and when it made sense to do so.

I have a generator 6Kva built into my RV I would no sooner dream of running it on a quiet idyllic sunny afternoon, annoying myself let alone anyone else.

However, when wild camping in minus 15 degrees at Christmas when staying in the Alps, I ran it for hours on end and used all the facilities of the van as if I was on hook up.

The mention of a generator brings out so many diverse reactions. It is perfectly legal to start and run a generator in public places, yet you regularly read such quotes as "I'd give them a piece of my mind" or "I pee in their freshwater" should any one start a generator near me. So in essence suggesting that they would break the law, to be difficult to some one that is not, breaking the law.

I also have a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter/charger which will charge my batteries at around 100Ah when using the generator.

I have fitted two 130W solar panels and i have six 115Ah Gel batteries for the house and two engine batteries.

I have a Victron battery computer to allow me to see how much power I am producing from the engine ( maximum to date circa 160Ah) and to monitor how much power we are consuming with lights, heating, fridges, freezer etc over the power produced by the solar panels. 

Personally I think that being able to accurately monitor the power is as important as producing more, as it allows you to use power wisely when you need to.

I personally do not have a fuel cell, although we sold and installed many since we first started importing them in 2004. I simply do not see the need personally given the way that we use of motorhome at the moment. Perhaps in the future if and when we retire we may consider it then, but not currently.

If you carry a generator and rarely use it, it is still nice to fall back on. I would agree with the other posters that Honda is the only way to go. We use a Honda 2i for the Stratford show which is the only show in the calender that has no electricity. The Van Bitz exhibition unit, is simply rubbish without hook up as it is all, Plasma screens and demo's.

Our poor old Honda generator gets dragged out of the storage building we use for shows and display material, oil checked, and filled with petrol and expected to start, despite not being used for twelve months! 

As for being noisy? it sits in the ground, next to the exhibition unit humming away all day whilst we (our sales staff) chat about everything motorhomes so it cant be to annoying, can it?

Eddie


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## airstream (Jan 7, 2009)

*Honda EU 20i*

Hi,
Forgot to say we have both Honda EU1 and 2 - in the summer we take the small one as not needed often but in winter we take the EU 20i 
The larger set has lower noise level when in use and uses about the same amount of fuel

One reason we need to use the Honda in winter is that the battery capacity does suffer with lower temperatures - I quote Trojan

"Battery capacity is basically a linear relationship. A good rule of thumb is that for every 15oF above 77oF, capacity is increased by 10% and for every 15oF below 77oF, capacity is reduced by 10%."

We also do not move as far or as often and we use more tv, heating and lights, so less capacity and more demand

Ray


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

We have just returned from a full week at Millers field aire, Ambleside and I am so thankful that we still have the Honda geny.
We went solar about a year ago and our single 90 watt panel has been quite sufficient to charge up our one and only 95 amp battery during the summer even when we stayed put for three weeks. Last winter was also OK as we moved about quite a bit.
I was even thinking of selling our Honda 2 kw geny but not any more.
Over the last week, we have not started the engine, have run the TV for about 2 hours per day and the blow heating has been on for about 2 hours in the morning and between 4 and 5 hours in the evening, both on settings between 5 and 6. Power was also needed for the hot water and daily showers.
Our lighting is mostly LED and we are not power hungry users as we are firm wilders.
I think that had we not used the TV, then the solar might just have been enough. Also we have the gadget that diverts a little charge from the leisure battery to the engine battery.
One important comment, we do hear some people using a genny for long periods, maybe to run a 240v TV? I think this is crazy! 
If and when we use ours, we try our best to run it when our neighbours have gone walk about and about one and a half hours per day was quite sufficient to bring the both the leisure and engine battery back to full charge.
Personally, I would buy the smaller 1 kw Honda as this is quite sufficient to charge the batteries, however if you want to use a hair dryer or microwave, you will need the larger 2 kw.
Alternatively, use campsites during the cold weather :lol:


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi,

I was surprised at how many Amps our Truma Blown Heating System takes out of the battery. It has been a while since I looked into it, but I am sure it was something in the region of 4A per hour, which if left on for any length of time is soon going to take its toll on your battery when away from EHU.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*ALDE*



Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was surprised at how many Amps our Truma Blown Heating System takes out of the battery. It has been a while since I looked into it, but I am sure it was something in the region of 4A per hour, which if left on for any length of time is soon going to take its toll on your battery when away from EHU.


So did ours!

The ALDE on this one takes around 1/2 amp.

Trev


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## Bella (May 14, 2005)

*Thank you*

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my initial query.

All responses were read with interest,

I think the money involved in obtaining 2 new matched 12v or 6v batteries ; relocating them to an internal space and their electrical connection; as i am not technically competant to do the work myself; will be better spent in obtaining a small Honda generator as I intend to do more rallies and visit more CL's and CS's.

Thank you all for your input.


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## Bella (May 14, 2005)

*Which Genny??*

Hi again,

Not sure if this post should be under new topic; some kind Mod will no doubt move it if required.

I like the idea of getting a Honda EU20i that runs on LPG but they are expensive (new- £1425 inc delivery)

I have noticed that Johns Cross is selling Hyundai HY2000Si 2KVA sine wave generator (petrol ) for £604.94 inc delivery.

Has anyone experience of either of these !

As my M/H fuel is Diesel and I have LPG 20l tank and 6kg bottle onboard I would prefer not to have to carry extra fuel cans; there is a BBQ point on side of van, can I utilise this or the small bottle to refuel the genny?

I have requested info from Honda dealer but don't expect reply from them over w/e; thought you guys would be quicker and more knowledgeable about using it for M/H.

Thanks for reading this and hoping for some replies.

Pam (Bella)


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Unless your satellite is very greedy then you have something wrong somewhere. LED lights are very economical and Truma gas heating is quite economical to operate. Lets say that your 110 ampere hour battery was 80% charged initially and you discharged it down to 20% then that's 60% of the 110 ampere hours available = 66 ampere hours.

Truma gas heating takes no more than 2A on full chat. So if the heating is actually running 1/3 of the time then about an average discharge of 0.66A. A couple of LED lights may bring this figure up to 1 amp. But you don,t run the lights during the day and you (presumably) sleep most of the dark hours!!

Your TV and satellite however can take up to 5A very much depending on the model of TV and satellite in use.

You need to measure a few amps (using a multimeter connected in series with the leisure battery negative lead) to get some exact figures for the various bits of electrical kit. Then use the multimeter as a VOLTmeter and check out the various charging modes.

Or did you forget to mention the microwave oven you run from an inverter??

Take care but do some measurements before you spend any serious dosh.

C.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Our generator is a dometic 2.8, runs on LPG, but the cost was £5000
fitted. We use it occasionally to run the aircon and on rare occasions to watch a DVD, we dont bother with TV although we have two in the van. We don't do a lot of winter camping other than Sept Oct in Europe

I am not sure how long it runs on gas, we have 2x 11kg gaslow system 

We have a small inverter and use this to recharge the hoover, I pad etc when travelling or when the solar panel is putting in full input. Also useful to use the slow cooker or remoska on journeys

We have twin batteries and also solar panel(125)

Overkill certainly but it suits us to be prepared for all eventualities

Have yet to cause disturbance to another van,nothing to do with generators, to do with consideration for those around

Frequently asked to run the generator to enable other van owners to check noise levels. Sounds louder in the van than out but if its hot and I can use either the air-change, de- humid or air con on the dometic freshlite not a problem to me

Aldra


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

If all you need is to recharge the batteries, then a small <1kVA cheapo generator and a 40A charger would do the job, no need for very expensive equipment at all, however nice they may be.

We are going to increase our on-board charger from 25A to 50A, by simply adding a second 25A charger, that means that we can fully recharge our batteries from flat in about 2.5 hours. In practice we have the solar panels so would never go that far, but as a backstop it allows us to have the option should we need it.

We will be splitting the 110AH battery into its two constituent 55AH batteries, with one charger per battery, and longer term will also duplicate the solar controller, that will give us two separate and independent 12V systems which can be dedicated to certain functions, leaving us unexposed to a total system loss.

Peter


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## tony49 (Feb 26, 2010)

*Using a generator to charge the leisure battery.*

Hi all

Am I right to assume that if I 'hook up' to a generator my leisure battary will be charged by the onboard battery charger in the same way as when I hook up on a campsite.

My leisure battery is hidden under the bolted down passenger seat - awkward if I need to plug a stand alone battery charger into the generator and connect crocodile clips or similar.

Tony


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## boringfrog (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: Using a generator to charge the leisure battery.*



tony49 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Am I right to assume that if I 'hook up' to a generator my leisure battary will be charged by the onboard battery charger in the same way as when I hook up on a campsite Tony


Yes...


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## jamest (Mar 9, 2011)

I find this topic very interesting as we are away now and not been on hookup for 5 or 6 weeks.

I'm finding power management a little tricky when the days are cloudy - more than one or two in a row and our charge drops a lot.

For comparison we are traveling maybe 30miles every two days, with just a standard relay to charge the leisure while driving.

We have one 125ah battery, and 2x80w solar panels.

Our typical usage (per day)is:

Led lights 4-5 hours, and we actually use most of them on as we like the light.
Malaga water heater for approx 40min
Tv (16inch technika cheap led tv from tescos on 12v) 3 hours
Laptop MacBook Pro 85w charger (about 4.5amps charge rate) but uses less when it's battery is full. Btypically plugged in for two hours a day
Toilet is electric flush
Heating is propex but not used that often at the moment (still warm here in Greece - mostly)

Compared to the stories here we seem to be doing really well!

We did borrow a hookup to a friend genny, but that amounted to about 3 hours.

It's cloudy again today and the solar is just kicking in, but not hopeful for much charge today. Looks like we will be on 12.4 again tonight.

Do we need a genny? I still can't decide. Not really if we manage, but it's annoying when you get three or so days of cloud/rain and have to restrict laptop usage. Btw, that tv we bought barely takes anything to run. Doesn't effect the voltage at all while running.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

If I was going away from EHU for more than a few days, I'd take our little 850W genny, just in case, but so far we've managed (in summer) without it.

We have 160W solar also but only 110ah battery.

Peter


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