# Advice please on a five week old M/H



## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

Whilst washing my M/H I have discovered what looks like a 3" hairline crack in the external surface of the overcab section. Before taking it to the dealers I would welcome advice as to whether this is something which the dealer will try to get me to accept as a repair job or as the vehicle is only 5 weeks old I should insist on what would probably be a complete roof replacement.


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

Hello Brian,

I feel your disappointment. However, it's still under warranty, so in that respect, it should not be a problem. 

On a personal level, I don't think I'd be comfortable with a repair, especially when you consider the cost of the vehicle. I can see though that a complete roof change would cost you the loss of your vehicle until it is done and now it is the start of the summer.

I'd be inclined to speak to the dealer and ask how urgent this problem is. Is it going to let in water? It might be that it would take some time for the factory to do it, in which case, one, is it possible to give you a replacement until it is done, or two, is it safe to use it until it is booked in for the replacement roof.

I would speak to the dealer and see if it is superficial or is it all the way through. I'd establish very quickly that there is a problem and the nature of it and want to know what they are going to do about it. After talking to them, I'd send a letter confirming what was said and agreed on both sides, even if it's only to keep notes for your own use and to keep things accurate.

I hope all goes well. We're collecting ours from the same dealer in two weeks time. However, having said that, we've only ever found them as thoroughly professional. Mind you, it's easy to be good when everything is going well, then acid test is, are they still going to be fantastic when it goes awry?

Keep us in the picture and I hope it goes well for you.

regards

MC


----------



## RobinHood (May 19, 2005)

Cracking in the gel coat layer is a common issue (I've got some of it on my 6 month old 'van at the moment, and have suffered before).

As long as it is only the gel coat, it is relatively simple to repair, and an invisible result is easily attained by anyone who knows what they are doing.

Generally, the crack should be drilled at either end, to stop it spreading, and then filled and rubbed down in stages and layers. (3 day job if done properly). Matching the colour is the hardest bit. 

Frankly, in acceptance of the above, I would rather have it repaired (as long as it is only the gel coat and not any underlying structure) than have a partial roof replacement carried out under non-factory conditions. The chances are that such an approach would introduce new problems, that would not be as (immediately) visible. 

You should be able to check the standard of repair of the known problem - just don't accept something that is not invisible.

(The cracks on mine are on the A-class front unit, and replacement would be horrific - FWIW there are cracks on some of the new display untis I've looked at).


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Brian
I too would be very wary of a repair job. It's a new vehicle and you are entitled to a new vehicle not one with patches. If they do a repair you will always be suspicious of it and wonder if it's OK.
I would have thought that Autotrail would be very interested to see one of their new vehicles with a body crack after only five weeks - if they're not then they should be.
It will probably all be OK in the end but don't be fobbed off with something you're not 100% happy with. Rather be without it for a while than live with a bodged job.

Please keep us posted with what happens.


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Van*

Hi

I would try and take photos if possible. Might come in useful later.

Rapide561


----------



## badger (May 9, 2005)

As I have never been able to afford a brand new motorhome I'm not sure but I understand that a fair bit of waiting time is in order before your pet is delivered.

This aside, isnt the fault another example of something "not fit for purpose" and warenting a complete replacement. (not just the roof.)

I would certainly be miffed at the thought of an Imperfect 5 week old vehicle


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brian

How B annoying in a new vehicle.

In this post I am presuming that you are refering to the Fibreglass (GRP)Overcab and my answer is to help with knowing about what you have found rather than a suggestion of what to do about it.

What you have found is more than likely a crack in what is known as the Gel coat of the Fibreglass (GRP). The gelcoat is the finishing layer and is hard and not particularly flexible. Anything that causes the gelcoat to flex can result in small hairline cracks developing.

Stress cracks in the Gel coat are cosmetic. If cosmetics are a serious issue to you, *then stress cracks are serious.* (In a new vehicle they would be very important to me...I would be damn annoyed)

But...stress cracks in the gel coat are not structural and usually do not indicate the part is about to fail or that the roof will start to leak.
( I used to race powerboats constructed from GRP...loads of stress cracks in the gel coat but no leaks and the boat usually never fell apart unless I hit something :roll: )

However, the gel coat cracks can be taken as an indication that the overcab is flexing or has been fitted in tension (twist) and this should be checked, preferably by the manufacturer. Sometimes an incorrect mix of ingredients in the original GRP resin used during construction can cause these gel coat cracks ...but in that sort of event there would be many cracks appearing. (may be worth waiting a while to establish if this is the case)

A friend with an Autotrail Dakota had 2 or 3 small cracks in the luton, they were cosmetically repaired under guarantee. I have not climbed up to see what they did but I think it may mean that the surface is now spray painted. If you are offered a repair, check out how they will do it...personally I would live with a small gel coat crack rather than have a repair which needed spray painting. It should be possible if fixed back at the manufacturer to use white gel coat resin and repolish.

As I said before, not much help in how to proceed but I do hope this information will put you "one step ahead" in the task.

Mike


----------



## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

As a body repair man myself given your situation I would whole heartedly echo Robin Hoods comments ,I would not like to see the factory finished seals to the roof broken and re made, I personaly would acept an *invisible *repair, as robin says you may end up an awfull lot worse of with a roof replacement
Geo


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Are you GRP experts saying that after a proper invisible repair the final product is as good as new and the cracking will not recur? 
I'm struggling to understand why anyone should feel obliged to accept a repair to a new vehicle just because the alternative (partial rebuild) could be a worse option.
If I'd spent £35k+ on a new mh and it had such defects I would not be happy to be forced into such a corner.
I bet the sales agreement doesn't say "surface cracking is normal".

If you're not happy with it - take it back.


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

tonyt said:


> Are you GRP experts saying that after a proper invisible repair the final product is as good as new and the cracking will not recur?


First I am not a GRP expert ..just someone who has used many GRP products and has seen these cracks before. I am sure that the first thing a dealer or manufacturers representative will say is "Oh those, they are only cracks in the Gel coat"....I just felt that Brian should be prepared with a bit of info so that he is ready to ask the right questions.

IMHO anyone saying after a repair "there you go thats sorted it" would be telling porkies...they may have sorted the cracks that are there now but who knows if more may occur.

My Autosleeper has a GRP monocoque body...I have a couple of these cracks....very small and almost unnoticable. IMHO Autosleepers GRP is good quality but even they get some cracks. I think a repair now to my van (its old) would just not be worth while but Brians is a new vehicle and he should expect to have the probem sorted out to his satisfaction....

I wonder if any other Autotrail owners have had the same problem ( I know of one so that's a start)

Mike


----------



## Malc (May 9, 2005)

Hi,
I had some gel cracks in the skirts of my auto-trail (save a long story about dealers and excessive quotes for another time ), the vehicle went back to the factory and was repaired, the repair was/is invisable now 1 year on and was done very professionally.
Malc


----------



## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

I am extremely grateful to all of you for your advice and comments. The M/H is booked in to Marquis next Wednesday and I will at least be in a position to go in armed with considerably more information than I would have done had it not been for your help. Once again many thanks, it is much appreciated. I shall keep you advised of the outcome.

Brian


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

my advise is to get the vehicle sent back to the factory for repair.do not accept local repair. it is a new vehicle.any problems from the dealers, go to CAB and Trading Standards. the vehicle must be suitable for the purpose it was built or bought for.and also bought without faults.at the worst demand a full refund. go and buy a different motorhome. I know thats brutal, but you are spending lots of dosh.


----------



## funnymunny (May 13, 2005)

*Autotrail roof crazing*

Hello Brianberu,
I have just read your plea for help with your 5 week old Cheyene and despite having left this site some time ago I felt the need to answer you, I also have an Autotrail it is an Apache 700 and like you i spotted what i thought some hairline crazing in my MH at an early stage but recently on returning from Spain we noticed damp in the over head Luton, on taking it back to the dealer he inspected it and found severe cracking and splitting on the front and back on both sides of the overhead caused by stress fractures. I always worried about the lack of stiffnes in the overhead structure and i have since learnt of 4 more cases of Autotrail suffering this type of damage, the overhead cab lay up is far too skimpy and flexible. Mine is just 2 years old another just a year old that i seen in Spain. Autotrail doeasnt seem to want to know leaving it down to the insurance that covers your 2nd and 3rd year warranty which i think is disgusting considering other manufacturers now give a 6 yr warranty on water ingress. I am now waiting for the dealer to ring me to arrange work to be carried out. My advice to you would be to take it straight back and have a thorough check and reinforcment built in. If you have any queries on this then feel free to ask and i will do my best to answer.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

after reading the comments made, my opinion is still for you to Reject the vehicle.demand a full refund.if more buyers did this then there would be better quality control at the factory and dealers.


----------



## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Just a thought... Is there an Autotrail owners club? If so it may be worth contacting them and asking if this problem is well known. Sometimes manufacturers "listen" to the comments of their owners clubs...

I find myself agreeing with Cabby in view of funnymunny's comments...

Keith


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

unfortunately i was not made aware of the legal position that is available to buyers until recently. Clubs are fine,they do have a little amount of representation to their manufacturer, but it is a little like hanging onto the tail of the tiger. I cannot but say if you have faults then you must decide what to do now. Use the laws that protect you.do not accept second best. it is not as if you bought a cheap secondhand car is it.Am sure if your partner was not happy with an item they had bought it would be straight back to the shop for money back. May i suggest that you write a letter to your dealer rejecting the vehicle, ask for a new replacement,also a copy to the finance company if there is one,also to the manufacturer, keep a copy and send them recorded mail. please seek advise before you accept any offer that binds you, from the dealer. .


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

forgot to add,the AA or RAC have a legal side for their members. the law is. Sale of goods act 1979, all items must be of a satisfactory Quality and FREE from minor defects.


----------



## 88826 (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Autotrail roof crazing*



funnymunny said:


> Hello Brianberu,
> I have just read your plea for help with your 5 week old Cheyene and despite having left this site some time ago I felt the need to answer you, I also have an Autotrail it is an Apache 700 and like you i spotted what i thought some hairline crazing in my MH at an early stage but recently on returning from Spain we noticed damp in the over head Luton, on taking it back to the dealer he inspected it and found severe cracking and splitting on the front and back on both sides of the overhead caused by stress fractures. I always worried about the lack of stiffnes in the overhead structure and i have since learnt of 4 more cases of Autotrail suffering this type of damage, the overhead cab lay up is far too skimpy and flexible. Mine is just 2 years old another just a year old that i seen in Spain. Autotrail doeasnt seem to want to know leaving it down to the insurance that covers your 2nd and 3rd year warranty which i think is disgusting considering other manufacturers now give a 6 yr warranty on water ingress. I am now waiting for the dealer to ring me to arrange work to be carried out. My advice to you would be to take it straight back and have a thorough check and reinforcment built in. If you have any queries on this then feel free to ask and i will do my best to answer.


I couldn't agree more with these comments, also Cabby's posts. In the same circumstances I would personally take every step to seek a total refund under the TDA 1997. In light of previous comments it would appear that we motorhomers are an easy and gullible lot. I would be very interested in the final outcome.
Don


----------



## funnymunny (May 13, 2005)

Hello Brianberu,
Can you tell me what the outcome of your crazing was after ? I hope t was a happy outcome for you.
My Apache is now in the dealers having the overhead cab stripped out and at least 3 layers of fibreglass mat and some stiffening built in on the inside then the outside gelcoat cut back and repaired so i hope it will be ok after that.


----------



## 96633 (Nov 3, 2005)

I feel a bit of a fool as this was nothing more than a storm in a teacup. Had I had taller steps I might have been able to examine the area somewhat closer but the matter has now been sorted out. What looked like a hairline crack high up on the overcab on closer inspection has been shown to be nothing more than a mark on the exterior coating which has now been polished out. 

I would however like to thank all of you who took the time to put forward your suggestions as to the course of action which you recommended me to take. I agree that after buying a new M/H you would expect it to be free from any faults. Minor faults can be repaired but a major one surely would warrant money back or a replacement M/H and had this been an actual crack I agree that the latter course of action could well have been the most appropriate one.

Thanks to all, it just shows why it pays to subscribe to this forum. There is so much expertise and willingness to help out there.

Brian


----------



## desertsong (Mar 8, 2006)

Hello Brian,

Good news there Brian, and from a selfish point of view relief indeed because as you know we just bought our Cheyenne 840 from the same place at Lee Mill. 

I was interested on two counts, one was to see how the vehicle panned out, but also to see how Marquis dealt with it. Up till now, we have only found Marquis to be professional, helpful and patient. Nothing was too much trouble. I know that on these pages they've had a lot of criticism and little praise. You only know the real strength of anyone when they're put to the test.

Anyway, Brian, good result, I feel happy for you, so now you can relax and enjoy it.

Best of luck,
Willie


----------

