# Are rules for the good of all, or ....



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Now, I admit I had a good weekend away in the van to Bristol. And I admit that all "officials" I encountered were pleasant and merely upholding the rules, presumably in place for the good of all. 

But, boy, I did feel a bit cornered by them, and was left with the impression that my every move was being monitored by someone, who would castigate or fine me if I transgressed. I NEVER feel like this on the Continent.

And not for the first time I wonder why I often struggle to get away for a weekend, when everyone else beats me to it.

I booked the site months previously. The van was ready to go Thursday evening. By chance I managed to get away from work a bit early on the Friday, get home, change and pick Alison up from work in the van when she finished at 4:45pm. The traffic was usual Friday rush hour in the S/SE of England; no better, no worse. The distance we travelled was no further than some (admittedly poor sods) commute by car daily.

We arrived around 7pm. Reception had already been shut for 2 hours (around when we left home) as campsite staff finish work at 5pm even on a Friday. We were the last to arrive. I know that because a warden playfully teased me for being last - he was around if off-duty, though not off-duty enough to forego stressing exactly how I must park on the gravel pitch. The site was full, so muggins got a pokey pitch; very pokey by the standards of virtually every other. I tried satellite but a tree blocked the way. I put up the backup terrestrial aerial but found the area had already suffered digital change-over and there was no analogue signal and I didn't have a Freeview decoder as well as satellite. 

I poured myself a G&T and things picked up.

In the morning I went to pay up when Reception opened. I was again teased for being last. I don't know why; someone has to be every day. I explained I was just grateful I didn't get held-up more in traffic, as the gates lock at 8pm and there is no late-night-arrival area and no alternatives. I was advised that was no problem - all we had to do was phone to let them know we would be late. That was reassuring, I said, though then I was told I'd naturally have to do that before 5pm. I said I had only just left home then, so had little opportunity to encounter ANY traffic. The answer apparently was to leave home earlier. That's clear then - a weekend away requires using up our Annual Leave entitlements.

On Sunday morning a couple of caravanners were packing up early, so as the British Grand Prix was starting at 1pm, I thought I could move pitch and watch it before leaving for home, perhaps paying a few pounds to stay to 3pm. I asked but no chance, as I had to vacate the site by noon.

At 11:40pm the warden stuck his head into the van to check I was packing up as I had to be left by 12:00. Well I wasn't, but I would, as it were. Perhaps he thought we were caravanners but I was still reading the papers. We left with 5 mins to go, with the wardens doing a Brian Hanrahan at the gate, counting us back out.

We drove up onto the Downs and parked up with a load of cars along the edge of a road. Put the TV on and settled down. Halfway through the race an official stuck his head in the van. Are you having a nice time? Yes, thanks, smiles all around. Well I'm going to ruin it for you. If you don't move your van I will clamp you. Why? You are parked on the verge. Well, yes, my two nearside wheels were indeed on the verge just missing the kerbstone by less than an inch - this was consciously to keep my offside in line with the parked cars. You are not supposed to park on the verge, he said. OK, so shall I move over a bit and put my nearside wheels in the gutter? No, he said, clearly anticipating my move, then I'll clamp you for causing an obstruction. Well, it wasn't as if I'd parked on a bend or anything, but yes, that's why I put my wheels on the verge. 

At this point I admitted defeat with officialdom, gave up on the GP and wearily drove straight home.

Dave


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

really had a good weeknd then , Dave :roll: . That'll teach you to book up a CC site 6.5 months in adavnce 8) 8)


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Oh Boy Dave ! Are you ready for the replies you're going to get ? If not, I suggest you read them in advance on earlier threads.

G


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## seagull (Feb 13, 2006)

baltic wharf by any chance??

i had an experience here with wardens last year and will never go back.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, Baltic Wharf. But I re-iterate. The wardens were cheerful and pleasant. They are not the problem. The Rules are, at least for me.

Dave


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Dave, I think you have made the mistake of thinking the tourist industry is a service one. Ray


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I hate most sites and only stay on CLs or Rally fields whenever possible, thats if I don't know a decent wild camping pitch.

We got hassle for parking in Bridlington so we don't go there anymore, and when you look at the place you can see that I am not the only one who has knocked it off my visiting list.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

seagull said:


> baltic wharf by any chance??
> 
> i had an experience here with wardens last year and will never go back.


I would never decide not to revisit somewhere because of one bad experience! People are human and have a bad day, often dealing with unpleasant, demanding and unreasonable customers.

The next time you go to Baltic Wharf you may find it totally different with either the same warden or a different one.

On another forum recently there was one bloke telling us that he'll never again go to a certain French town because when he was a lad he was ripped off in a bar! That was over forty years ago!

Personally, I have never, repeat never, had a sour experience with a club warden, either CC or C &CC. I greet them with a smile, am friendly and most important of all I accept that they may have been on duty for ten hours and have had one or two trying customers.

Driving to one in Dorset earlier this year I phoned to apologise for being late and he couldn't have been nicer. As directed I knocked on his 'van door at about 8.00 pm and he let us in and was fine.

He'd probably settled down watching the television but he was happy to help me.

Judging from the comments of some people I'm convinced that they arrive on a site determined to have a row!


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## 04HBG (Dec 9, 2007)

Thats the joys of having a motorhome in the UK today.

Everybody wants your money from the very first salesman you meet when buying the van right up until the clamping or traffic warden none of them can wait to take your cash but unfortunately nobody wants motorhomes on the roads of Britain.


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

What gets me is the no access to the club site before 12pm rule.

If you are still "young enough" to work and lets say you cant leave Friday evening. You have to occupy your time till 12pm before settling in on site.

On rallies and ths's this doesnt apply.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

dodger148 said:


> What gets me is the no access to the club site before 12pm rule.
> 
> If you are still "young enough" to work and lets say you cant leave Friday evening. You have to occupy your time till 12pm before settling in on site.
> 
> On rallies and ths's this doesnt apply.


Do you ever stop to think that these things are done for a reason?

The pitch that you want at 10.00 am. may well be occupied by another outfit and that person could well be the one moaning on forums about not being able to stay a bit longer than the noon departure time!

Another factor is that wardens usually do all the toilet block cleaning between 11.00 a.m and noon, thus leaving the office undermanned for dealing with those coming as well as those going. Remember, it's those arriving that demand the most time as they have to book in etc. Those leaving usually just drive away.

Rallies on the other hand, have no similarity whatsoever to a normal site and I simply cannot understand your comparison.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Hobbyfan said:


> Do you ever stop to think that these things are done for a reason?
> 
> quote]
> 
> I often contemplate whether the hundreds of thousands of rules, Bylaws, Regulations and Laws that we live by are there for a reason and what that reason is. As part of that processI wonder if the rule etc. is being enforced for the reason that it was introduced. Of course I don't know the answer or know if civilization as we know it would end if by some stroke of the pen the majority of them would disappear.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Dave I had a similar encounter earlier in the year,
I was sure I was paying the wardens wages, or part of.
Not that they were paying for me to visit.

Get yourself a jobsworth hat. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Dave p


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

I have a lot of sympathy for the 'too many rules" argument and personally, having spent a lot of time dealing with local authority jobsworths, would get rid of half of them.

What does get me mildly irritated though is those who find themselves slightly inconvenienced by a rule and whinge on about it, such as "Why can't I go on a site before noon".

If they'd just stop and think for second they'd possible realise that some rules are there for a purpose, which is the general good of the majority. However, in this consumer-focussed society that we've become, anyone whose doesn't get instantaneous gratification immediately has to blame someone else or the 'stupid rules'!

Anyway, I'm off for a few days, mixture of sites and wild camping but I've no doubt that, as usual, my three days on a CC site will be pleasant and stress free!

Happy camping - even to the moaners!


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

> I often contemplate whether the hundreds of thousands of rules, Bylaws, Regulations and Laws that we live by are there for a reason and what that reason is. As part of that processI wonder if the rule etc. is being enforced for the reason that it was introduced. Of course I don't know the answer or know if civilization as we know it would end if by some stroke of the pen the majority of them would disappear.


Lord of the Flies?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Flipping heck! I was going to suggest wild camping in the Downs Dave until I read about the traffic Nazi you encountered. If you get in trouble for being on the verge then god knows what they would do to you if you dared to spend the night!

Ive never been on a CC site even though Im a member and I dont think I ever will after all the stuff I have read on here.

There are only a couple of sites we do go on and most of those are just fields where drive on, park where you like, bung the farmer a tenner when you see him and leave when your ready. To the poster who wont go back to Bridlington one of these sites is Wold Farm in Flamborough (in database) which is lovely and the other is Waterside on Ullswater although this one can get overun in the summer.


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## tude (Feb 9, 2008)

*wardens*

i was at burrs country park at wkend you want to meet the wardens its like mr burleigh said you feel they are watching every move. this is one reason we dont use many cc sites now they are spoiling the camping game with too many rules ie no fun after 11pm.tude


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Barry,

Well, again he is a pleasant enough fellow. Our No 1 son's girlfriend lives on the edge of that area, and he texted me ""Ha ha yes we know him, he's always going up and down asking if we own any of the parked cars, we just walk there though".

So I get the impression he is consistently reasonable, just diligently doing the job he is paid to do, upholding The Rules.

Dave


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi.
I think the 12.00 rule is fair,some sites have limited access,(Devon/Wales etc.) and for people who find driving a larger vehicle a worry,they do not want to leave say at 10.00,and have the hassle of meeting another unit mid-way to the main road. Another consideration,some peoples family tree may include an Owl!. A member of a club i belonged to used to be waiting at the rally field gate at 06.00 hrs. most people were still in bed,so as marshals you were between a rock and a hard place. 
Are well,back to the drawing board,it does not matter to me anymore,as being retired,and having a squadron of Owls in my family tree,i can arrive/depart anytime,(Do not like 24/7).It does give a flatter playing field for long haul holiday makers,against the local"Its a nice day,lets nip to wherever" for the day,after all, it has to be fair for all members,as we all pay towards the sites upkeep.
Just an observation,the member who arrived at sparrows (06.00hrs) used to take great delight in saying he had done the whole rally,and payed a night less.Must look up his family tree,how do you spell Scrooge?
Ted


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Dave,

The prohibition of parking on the Downs half on the road and half on the grass is a recent move by the anti-car Bristol City Council. It has produced a flood of protests from local motorists because certain roads on the Downs are too narrow, and the tourist buses that include the Downs as part of the tour have effectively made some of the Downs a one-way system when cars have to park only on the tarmac bits.

Bristol Zoo is also allowed to have a temporary overflow car park on the Downs in summer so it isn't really about protecting the grass.

Joined-up thinking - NOT!


SD


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Dave it is not just you LOL The letter below is a copy of a email I sent to the Caravan Club. I got an automated response telling me that I would hear back in three days. After NINE days I had an email stating that the club was going to forward the email to the area manager.

a few days after that my wife had a drippy mumbly telephone response from some chap, that said bugger all but waffled on, trying to avoid saying anything at all. We did get argeement that there is no rule that states how you must pitch up i.e. facing one way or another, he did not understand why the warden was being difficult about a car parked on the grass, and he confirmed that the wardens were wrong to suggest that the club rules state that after dark you are supposed to retire to your unit!

It would appear that the chap was unwilling to commit his thoughts or comments to paper.

Having sent a copy of the email to the wardens, I will be returning to Steamer Quay shortly and will enjoy the visit!



> Hello
> 
> My name is Eddie Jones. My wife and I have just returned from a very unpleasant weekend at the Caravan Club site at Steamer Quay in Totnes. Our membership number is:- xxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> ...


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Eddie - I'm speechless. Err, please let us know how you get on on your imminent visit!

SD - Thanks for that. I did wonder about parking on the grass, and checked Google Maps when I got home, as I recall seeing a car park ON the grass and wondered what it was:
> Bristol Downs car parking <

Dave


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

I was giving this issue of having to leave by 12 some thought over the weekend, following the thread last week.

Of course there's always the option of begging for a late checkout, but the issue is that until you get there, you don't know if you're in with a chance or not : hence the situation where some of us book 3 nights to be sure of being able to leave when we choose on the Sunday.

I do wonder, though, whether site owners/the CC are missing a business opportunity. Why not set aside a given proportion of the pitches on the site. That % of pitches could be booked at a "weekend rate", set at (say) 2xnightly rate + £7.50. Then offer a "super-Sunday" discount rate, which give a fiver discount for Sunday arrivals if they're willing to delay arrival until 6pm. I'm sure there'd be plenty willing to take that up. QED at least £2.50/night extra revenue...possibly more because if the site isn't full, you'd have been giving the late checkout away free. The proportion of pitches could be adjusted to fit demand...e.g. start at 25% and if demand for weekend/superSunday outstrips supply, increase, otherwise decrease.

Of course, it wouldn't always work. I was at Strid Wood this weekend and it was an occupation profile that I've never seen before. 9am on Sunday, site was completely full. 11am, only approx 6 units left on, everyone else gone home (all departures by 11am...there's an arch on the approach road which gives new meaning to the word "narrow"). New arrivals allowed from 1pm, by 1:30 there were about 20 units on, by 4pm the site was full. I've never seen a total changeout like this before.

Paul


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

The rules for the CCC are made by the members for the members through the normal membership channels. One assumes the same applies to the CC?

If there are rules that are clearly in need of altering, then use your membership to try and alter them.

BTW, we accept members before 12 assuming we have room, we are free (having finished cleaning etc) and the pitches are ready. We also accept members as late as possible, until the gates shut for the night.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Not strictly relavent to the topic but can anybody explain why when I select a quote in a post e.g. Eddie's, that it does not expand? If I choose to quote it myself, as if I am going to reply, then I can read it all.

Many thanks, Ray


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Ray - It's a bug between IE7 and the site (think IE8 works, from memory). Has been this way since the site was revamped.


AndrewandShirley, I accept your point about changing the rules, but the problem with a lot of this is it becomes self-fulfilling. Call me lazy, but having worked a 40+ hr week I simply want to go away at weekend, not get into the machinations of the internal workings of the CC...although I'm not averse to writing the odd letter. With most people feeling the same, the inevitable outcome is that the "string pullers" in the clubs tend to be those with time on their hands to get involved, who are the very people that the current setup suits.

Paul


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## CaGreg (Mar 28, 2007)

Greg and I want to visit the UK at some stage but I think I would be afeared!!

Ca


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## Delores (Feb 21, 2010)

Don't start me on rules! I think my "26 rules" thread conveyed my feelings on the matter!

We now avoid CC and CCC main sites wherever possible and use the fabulous CLs and CSs instead - these generally have few if any rules and on many we've stayed at we barely even saw the owners/ managers. Bliss!


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

CaGreg said:


> Greg and I want to visit the UK at some stage but I think I would be afeared!!
> 
> Ca


Have I just been lucky? Have stayed on CC and C&CC sites, cls and cs, not had a problem with any. Well site and staff that is.
Arrived at on CC site ant lunchtime, note on door, 'find a pitch then let us know where you are' now I had booked a standard pitch, but the map didn't show which were standard, no network access for my dongle so couldn't check the map on website.
Duly parked up, a nice spot, just behind the toilet block. Had badly pulled my hamstring a week before and had just managed to drive so didn't want to walk far.
Booked in later gave pitch no queried if this was type i had booked, was told no problem we might fill up later but have lots of space.
*
wardens friendly and helpful
BUT*
We were 3 golden girls or 2 golden girls and a silverry one lol
On our own, smiles, greetings chat. from both men and women.
When either in 2s or 3s we got the cold shoulder mostly.
Day before we were leaving got a knock on the door, frightened life out of us we were having a siesta.
Very abrupt, 'when are you leaving?' told them not till tomorrow.
'YES but WHAT TIME' replied i didn't know but hoped to be away for I think 11am
He and his wife stood for over an hour watching us as i, admittedly slowly, packed up got off ramps, showed a nice young German couple how to lift the manhole cover to deposit waste etc.
Had taken van off ramps and there she was with waste water container, to mark 'their ' pitch.
An amusing end to the week.
Sue


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

04HBG said:


> Thats the joys of having a motorhome in the UK today.
> 
> Everybody wants your money from the very first salesman you meet when buying the van right up until the clamping or traffic warden none of them can wait to take your cash but unfortunately nobody wants motorhomes on the roads of Britain.


Why do you assume that these problems are peculiar to the UK and motorhomes?

It's hard to believe that all non motorhomers and foreigners behave so well towards other people!


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

dodger148 said:


> What gets me is the no access to the club site before 12pm rule.
> 
> If you are still "young enough" to work and lets say you cant leave Friday evening. You have to occupy your time till 12pm before settling in on site.
> 
> On rallies and ths's this doesnt apply.


But surely this is to give those occupying the site the night before time to get off.

I suppose you also support rules allowing you to stay until 8pm on your last day?

I know many rules are bad but rules are very necessary. Without them you get pure chaos.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

In these days of the interweb its surprising you can't book for a specific pitch, and specify an earlier arrival / later departure time for a small fee if thats what you wanted, or the website may judge no fee was necessary if it was quiet or well in advance. No different to hotels who have the same issues of getting space ready, cleaning and keeping everyone happy with minimal cost. If you can get on a plane with an image on your mobile as recently in the press why does a paying customer arriving at a campsite need any time from the wardens at all?

The wardens could then watch you on CCTV from their office and *** another £10 onto your credit card for each 5 mins late, each footstep on the wrong bit of grass, each inch out of square you've parked on the pitch, all easily automated convenience


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> In these days of the interweb its surprising you can't book for a specific pitch, and specify an earlier arrival / later departure time for a small fee if thats what you wanted, or the website may judge no fee was necessary if it was quiet or well in advance. No different to hotels who have the same issues of getting space ready, cleaning and keeping everyone happy with minimal cost. If you can get on a plane with an image on your mobile as recently in the press why does a paying customer arriving at a campsite need any time from the wardens at all?
> 
> The wardens could then watch you on CCTV from their office and *** another £10 onto your credit card for each 5 mins late, each footstep on the wrong bit of grass, each inch out of square you've parked on the pitch, all easily automated convenience


My friends own a campsite in France.

A small proportion of campers think that it is OK to come and go whenever they like no matter how much this annoys other campers.

They also wish to park wherever they like despite the fact that pitches are marked as reserved.

They let their kids and dogs run riot on the campsite and make loud noises until the early hours of the morning. They then complain about others making noise at 8 am.

They pee all over the pitch as the toilets are (in their words) too far away.

If asked, very politely, to refrain from behaving so badly they are unbelievably abusive.

This is why campsite owners have some may be far too strict rules. It's to cover themselves against the few moronic thugs who rampage all over their site.

Come on some rules are really necssary no matter how much we dislike them.


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

welcome to Bristol i have live with this c**p every day there latest toy is the yellow line and loading bay camera they just drive passed snap you and the fine drops on the mat you were lucky to have a live one 
chapter


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