# Anyone bought a Portuguese electronic toll "Chip"



## Grizzly

We've had 4 attempts to buy one now and have been met with scratched heads (2 service stations), disbelief ( garage) and "not here Gov, try the service station" (main post office). The only Brit we have met has come north from the Algarve, using toll roads all the way, and has failed to buy a TD/Chip on any of them. He is now concerned that he will get home to find a " pay up or else" notice. He was aware that he was being clocked as he passed through the electronic tolls.

A Dutchman, resident in this town for 20 years, tells us that only residents need them but this is not the information we have from the CC and so on.

I believe there is a protest going to the EU as the newly tolled roads were built with EU money and should be free to use.

We don't intend to make a lot of use of the roads with electronic tolls but would like to be legal if we do and we have another 4 weeks here.

Has anyone managed to buy one and where from ?

G


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## Terryg

Grizzly,

We will be travelling to Portugal this year for the first time by MH. I have seen several threads on here regarding this, all of them do not seem to answer your question.

You may find this recent link from Trip Advisor<< useful.

Terry.


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## Grizzly

Terryg said:


> You may find this recent link from Trip Advisor<< useful.
> Terry.


Thanks Terry, the link is useful in that it gives us a better idea which roads are subject to automatic toll collection.

It also confirms our feeling that this "system" has not been thought out, prepared for or organised and, unfortunately, there might well be foreign victims who have done their best to conform but can't actually find any way of buying a toll chip. The tolls are not expensive, we're quite content to pay them but need a way of doing so.

I'll keep you posted as to what happens !

G


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## Zepp

Thanks for the info guys 


We are going to Portugal next month and we were also looking for info on the new toll road system as we have not been to Portugal before we were just going to try and avoid toll roads.


Paul


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## PaulW2

I think you may battle to avoid toll roads. I suspect the main arterial routes are mainly now toll roads (?).

The secondary road network is generally not the greatest. I would tend to avoid many of the secondary roads there if I had the choice, especially in a motorhome - the roads are often narrow and winding and driving behaviour is often quite 'spirited'.

On the other hand the motorways - say from the Spanish border to Lisbon, or down to the Algarve - are quite good.


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## Spacerunner

Following on from the Trip Advisor link I used Google translator and found this guide.

Electronic chip suppliers.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page you can search by service required and district.


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## Grizzly

Spacerunner said:


> Following on from the Trip Advisor link I used Google translator and found this guide.


Thanks very much Spacerunner. We're in Caminha which, according to the list, does not have a Payshop outlet that does tolls. The nearest one will involve us back-tracking and driving into the middle of town or going along, chip-less, to a more southerly town !

To be honest, from what we picked up yesterday, I think this website and list is fantasy rather than fact and is what they hope will happen when the administration catches up with the theory. Next year perhaps.

The Post Office here in Caminha is a large, well set up place and, according to the blurb, supposed to have them but they have not and suggested we try a service station on the way back to Spain which we'd already tried on the way here. They didn't even know where to get them let alone have them. It couldn't have been my Portuguese either as I had it all printed out officially.

G


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## Zepp

Just found this post on another forum I have know idea if it will work.

Post Office Link

https://www2.ctt.pt/fectt/wcmservlet/ctt/landingpage.html
....................

It now seems you can prepay by registering on line. However I have yet to be successful at doing this.
I will explain the full method in case someone is able to register.
· Go the website of the Portuguese Post office: The English version does not work.
· Hit the link for Correio. This opens up a new page. In the left column click "Outros Serviços Estaçao Correio." 
· Click Pagamento Portagens.
· Click Matríula Estrangeira.
· In the sentence "Adquira aqui o seu pré-pago para veículo de matrícula estrangeira." Click aqui. This looks the same as the rest of the font as if they wish to hide the link.
· In the sentence "Se ainda não está registado clique aqui" again hit the word aqui.
· Fill out the data. I feel this is self explanatory but if need be I can give some translations. Fill out all the starred sections.
· Fill out only one block. At the bottm of the three blocks you will see a red button "Copiar Dados Pessoais. Hitting this will fill out the last two block from data provided in the first one.
· Ignore the other tags along the top of this form.
· It states it send you an email. However I have never received one. When you log in again (on this page). I have been thrown out of the website. Persist and you will get through, especially if you go right from the start on the of these instructions.
· Once you are in you will be asked for some more details. Again these should be easily to understand but if you cannot let me know please.
· At this point you will need to know your vehicles registration. So you cannot order these prepayments before you pick up your hire car. Note, at the time of writing, the second tab at the top of this form does not work. To go onto the next page press the red button marked Seguinte.
· The next page gives you several more options this is the type of card you want to purchase. Again I feel this does not need too much explanation, does it? After making your choice; hit the red button.
· The last page is the total you are going to be charged. At the bottom of the page you can choose between Visa and Master card. To the right you have to fill out the section "Data de Início da Viagem:" This means date of travel. Below the calendar is a small tick box. Devolução do saldo remanescente This means that you want any outstanding money from your card returned to your choice of payment. However expect the Portuguese and or your CC to make charges for this. The section below this is a ticked box stating you agree to the terms and conditions. Links are given to these terms too. Once filled in hit the Confirmar red button.
· This brings up a small window asking if you want to confirm if you want to proceed with the payment. Sim is Yes.
· This brings us up to the payment section; fill out your card details. I have not gone beyond this page yet as I do not presently intend on travelling to Portugal.

As described before there are several other ways of making payments. Call in at any Portuguese Post Office or a service station along the highway. Just ensure you have made a payment before you pass a overhead gantry. When making a payment do not forget to take a note of your vehicles registration and country of registration when leaving the car. This information will be required when filling out the forms before payment.


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## Grizzly

How do you actually receive the electronic card / Go Box thing or whatever it is that registers your passing under the gantry ? Do they post it to a UK address ?

G


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## Zepp

Grizzly said:


> How do you actually receive the electronic card / Go Box thing or whatever it is that registers your passing under the gantry ? Do they post it to a UK address ?
> 
> G


No idea I just thought I would post link ........I did read somewhere that it was done on your Reg number here is a link where I read about post office

http://slowtalk.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5031043523/m/789006232001

I sure this will put alot of m/h from going to Portugal we are having 2nd thoughts about going . as the fines are quite high. I don't mind paying the tolls but I dont want to spend the whole trip looking for a box


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## Grizzly

Zepp said:


> I sure this will put alot of m/h from going to Portugal we are having 2nd thoughts about going . as the fines are quite high. I don't mind paying the tolls but I dont want to spend the whole trip looking for a box


You're absolutely right about that. We're sitting here planning to visit Braga and the Sanctuary of Bom Jesus tomorrow en route to Porto. There's no reasonable route there and then down to Porto unless we use the A28 and we can't rely on finding a place to buy a chip ! It is actually dominating our planning and causing stress.

We hope to find one at the first toll or service station on the A28 but what if they haven't got one ? As you say, the fines are not insignificant.

I hope to have good news so that you can continue to plan without worry but really, the authorities have got to get this sorted ! Portuguese is not the easiest language and they can't expect people to deal with this via translation websites and phrase books.

G


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## Zepp

I understand how you must be feeling G don't let it spoil yor trip 


I have been online most of the day trying to find any more info and I have nothing more than you have added. 


One other place to check is airports and car hire 


Paul


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## Jooles

From Dec CC Club mag: A new electronic toll system has been introduced on the following previously toll free roads in Portugal, A25, A28, A29, A42 and parts of A4 and A17. All tolls must be paid by using a temporary magnetic electronic card (TD), since there will be no manned toll booths.
TD cards are available from some motorway service stations, CTT (Portuguese post offices) and Via Verde offices. If you use a credit card to hire the TD, a deposit of 27Euro will be taken immediately and toll costs will then be debited automatically from your credit card. Your deposit will be refunded when you return the TD.
Use cash for the TD and you will need to preload it with 50 Euro as well as pay a 27 Euro deposit. If you use more than this preloaded amount, you will have to pay additional charges when you return the card. If you use less than 50 Euro, you will not receive any refund, although you will get your deposit back.
Roads that have these new tolls will be identified by the following signage ' Lanco Com Portgam' and 'Electronic Toll only'. Signage at the beginning of the toll road will give details of the prices. 
Vehicles found using these roads without a TD device can be fined up to 10 times the toll fee with a min charge of 25Euro.
Existing toll roads A1,A10,A11,A12,A13,A14,A15,A2,A21,A3,A4,A5,A6,A7,A8 and A9 will still have manned booths.
For further info see estradas.pt/portagensestrangeiros.
A list of Via Verde outlets can be accessed by logging onto viaverde.pt (only available in portuguese).


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## Grizzly

Thank you Jooles; we're aware of all this, indeed I put up the first note about it on MHF following an article a couple of months ago from the CC. From the UK it all seemed quite straightforward !

Unfortunately here, on the ground in northern Portugal, the whole thing seems to be fraught with mystery and confusion. We can't find anywhere to buy a TD. We can't find anyone in authority who knows what is happening. We want to use the new electronic tolled roads but, legally, can't do so.

We now learn - thanks to Zepp's link- that the system is not due to be rolled out south of Porto until 15th April, when we will be home in UK. However we also learn that, even if we are lucky enough to find a place to sell us a TD - and believe me we have tried all the places you mention- then we are unlikely to find anywhere to take it back and refund our deposit.

At this moment I feel like turning left and going back over the border into Spain. We can see it only 200m away !

G


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## Jooles

Sorry, missed your original post... and ran out of room in my post to say that we have had no experience of the new system yet as we are still in Spain, but heading for Portugal later.

I agree it does all seem very confusing and fraught with problems.

Will watch with interest to hear of anyone's experiences.....


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## Terryg

Hi, 

I have emailed Via Verde offices, requesting details of registration and purchase of the electronic device for non Portuguese EU resident. 

Did try this on-line at Via Verde website, unfortunately some information required can only be provided by a permanent resident of Portugal. ( ID, tax ID etc…. ) 

I will keep this thread all updated. 

Terry.


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## Zepp

Thank you Terry


Paul


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## Zepp

Most of the below has been posted before but I thought I would paste and copy the below as there is a few new points on there 



Update 14th January 2011

Although people are aware of the fact that the Norte Litoral, Costa de Prata and Grande Porto SCUT motorways are now electronic toll motorways, most aren't aware of exactly which parts of which motorway are subject to tolls. If you want to see a map of the sections that are subject to tolls, click here.

The system for charging tolls on SCUT motorways in Portugal came into force on 15th October. There is much confusion about how the tolls will be applied, what motorways you can use etc. We hope to clarify this for you here at Hey Portugal.

Hey Portugal has put together the following information from knowledge gained from Via Verde, Estradas Portugal and other sources. More will follow as we get information from the various departments and from you. There are conflicts of information even from the official agencies, so please bear with us as we try to get this page into a comprehensive source of ‘acurate’ information.

If you have any experiences that are different from what we say here then please let us know so we can share it with other readers.

Terms Used by the various authorities

DE – Electronic Device (this can be a DECP, DM or TD)
DECP – Cpmpatible Electronic Devices. A Via Verde Identifier is one of these, and will work with the electronic tolls.
DEM – Electronic Registration Device 
TD – Temporary Device

Motorway Signs 
Please contact us if you see any different signs, this is what Estradas Portugal have said will be on the signs. They said that sections will be clearly marked with signs at the start

The main word to look for on the new SCUT tolls is ‘electrónica’
PORTAGEM ELECTRONICA – Electronic Tolls

PORTAGEM EXCLUSIVAMENTE ELECTRONICOS – Exclusively Electronic Tolls

LANCO COM PORTAGEM – With Toll Booths

LANCO COM PORTGAM ELECTRONICA- With Electronic Tolls Only

Motorways with Via Verde Toll Booths in existence

There will be no change to these, you can continue to use the tolls with either the Via Verde Identifier or by PAYG at the booths. Well for now anyway!

Exclusive Electronic Tolls
These motorways will only have the overhead gantry systems, they will not have tolls booths or machines where you can Pay As You Go (PAYG) as with Via Verde Type motorway toll areas.
The first of the SCUT motorways to be converted to this system are;
Grande Porto, Costa Prata and Norte Litoral. Click here to view a map of the Toll Sections

Payment Options:
There are essentially 2 options; Pre and Post Pay. Pre Pay is cheaper.

Prepay
If you have a DE then you will either pre-pay by loading an amount on to it or you will be debited automatically from your bank account.
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you have already applied for your DE but not received it, you will need to post Pay (as below) until you get it but if you take evidence of your application (reference number) when you pay you will not be charged the administration fee.

Postpay
If you do not have a DE then you are expected to go to a PayStation or CTT within 5 days of using the motorway, with your vehicle registration number and pay your tolls. An administration fee will also be added to the amount due. If it is not paid within 5 days then fines will also be added.

We have been told by 1 person that they went to CTT, and the post office assistant had no idea what to do or how to check or register their vehicle! Any other experiences anyone?

Electronic Devices (DE)
With the exception of Temporary Devices (TD) each device is registered to a particular vehicle registration number. They are not interchangeable without re-registering the device with the supplier. It is reported that EDs (either Via Verde or the ones for the SCUT tolls only) are available from all Post Offices, Via Verde offices and Motorway service area, as well as som banks. However, at the moment stocks are very low are when any locations gets them the word seems to get around and they do not last long. You can also apply for Via Verde Identifier via the Via Verde website, but there is a log backlog of applications at the moment.

Via Verde Identifiers will also work on the SCUT motorways, but we cannot establish if this applies the other way..ie. can a DEM be used in a Via Verde Toll?

Electronic Registration Device (DEM)
This is similar to the Via Verde Identifier, in that it is attached to the windscreen. They are not attached to the Registration Plate, as has been mentioned on other websites. Due to demand, stocks of these are rare at the moment…good forward planning by the Portuguese authorities, as usual.

Temporary Devices (TD)
These can be leased from motorway service stations or CTT/post offices. The price for the leasing is proportional to the time of use. A deposit shall also be paid (an amount equal to the selling price of the device). The deposit is re-payable on return of the device BUT NOT any credit, so don't pre-pay. 
When leasing the device, you can choose between two methods of payment:
* automatic payment: debit from a multibanco or credit card for the tolls charges used;
* prepayment: preloading a minimum of 50 Euros (light vehicles) or of 100 Euros (heavy vehicles). In this case, the preloaded and unused balance is non-refundable.
They are not registered to a particular vehicle, so are anonymous. They are designed for short term use on the Portuguese toll motorways and so are ideal for foreign registered vehicles. 

Foreign Registered Vehicles
IMPORTANT NOTE: Driver of vehicles without a DE (any type) which are not Portuguese registered should avoid using these motorways! Photos are taken of registration plates and bills and fines will be sent to your registered address in whatever country the car is registered.
Fines for Foreign plated vehicles using the road without a DE are 10x toll fee, with a minimum charge of 25€ and a maximum of 125€.

No information yet if non Portuguese debit cards can be used for automatic payment.

Links:
Via verde website
Toll Rates, from Estradas Portugal website using Google Translate


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## Zepp

This also makes a interesting read ( I may just go to Spain )

http://translate.google.com/transla...tas-e-visitantes-estrangeiros_1466355&act=url


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## Stanner

At last the perfect use for those "show" plates sold online that make UK registrations look like German ones.



Or even better some Dutch look alike ones, BO-11-OX would be good.


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## 113016

Thanks for starting this thread Grizzly and thanks to everybody who has contributed. I will be watching with most interest for future posts as Portugal is a distinct possibility for us this year!
I used to Truck to Sines, Lisboa and Oporto about 15 years ago and the only Motorway or Peage at that time was the Road between Lisboa and Oporto and the two bridges. They were building a M Way from the Badajos area towards Lisboa and that was all. I never went down to the Algarve and never south of Sines which was near to Grandolla (spelling).
This year we were intending going into Portugal via Galicia, and then driving down the coast towards Lisboa. Is it not possible on non peage roads and jump on the expressways around Oporto and Lisboa and over the peage bridge at both Oporto and Lisboa.
I suppose that the road from Oporto to Villa Fomosa is now peage?
Any up to date advice would be appreciated.
Thanks to all

edit.
Just been reading some of the links in more detail and it seems a complete nightmare to avoid the tolls as they are everywhere!


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## erneboy

Why not email the Portuguese Embassy in London and ask for their help. Surely they could help, that's one of the things they are there for, Alan.

http://portugal.embassyhomepage.com/


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## 113016

Grath said:


> Thanks for starting this thread Grizzly and thanks to everybody who has contributed. I will be watching with most interest for future posts as Portugal is a distinct possibility for us this year!
> I used to Truck to Sines, Lisboa and Oporto about 15 years ago and the only Motorway or Peage at that time was the Road between Lisboa and Oporto and the two bridges. They were building a M Way from the Badajos area towards Lisboa and that was all. I never went down to the Algarve and never south of Sines which was near to Grandolla (spelling).
> This year we were intending going into Portugal via Galicia, and then driving down the coast towards Lisboa. Is it not possible on non peage roads and jump on the expressways around Oporto and Lisboa and over the peage bridge at both Oporto and Lisboa.
> I suppose that the road from Oporto to Villa Fomosa is now peage?
> Any up to date advice would be appreciated.
> Thanks to all
> 
> edit.
> Just been reading some of the links in more detail and it seems a complete nightmare to avoid the tolls as they are everywhere!


Further to what I posted above, it looks like it is a big No No unless you have the chip thing'y for the automated peages
More trouble than it is worth!


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## Zepp

Grath said:


> edit.
> Just been reading some of the links in more detail and it seems a complete nightmare to avoid the tolls as they are everywhere!


They sure are and the map updates are changing every day


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## Glandwr

In situations like this it is often useful to think. "If I was French what would I do?"

Dick


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## 113016

erneboy said:


> Why not email the Portuguese Embassy in London and ask for their help. Surely they could help, that's one of the things they are there for, Alan.
> 
> http://portugal.embassyhomepage.com/


The trouble with this option is that most probably you would only get the official policy which does not apear to be working as the folks on the ground have said.

Originally we were thinking of Morocco or Greece via Italy and we were leaning towards Portugal as we thought less aggravation.
Maybe a re think will be required?


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## Zepp

This is the reply I got from Turismo de Portugal

Dear Mr PAUL, (ID Nr. EN006318)

Thank you for contacting Turismo de Portugal, as well as your interest in our country.

Replying to your question, we are pleased to inform that we have the updated information for you:

ELECTRONIC TOLLS

There are some highways in Portugal on which the tolls are electronic only. It means that there are no cabins and the passing of vehicles is detected by devices placed at the beginning of those highways.
The highways are identified at the beginning with: "Electronic toll only".

The highways concerned:

Norte Litoral
- A28: Auto-estrada do Litoral Norte (Littoral North-highway - between Porto and Vilar de Mouros/Caminha)

Grande Porto
- A4: Porto/Amarante-highway (between Matosinhos and Águas Santas)
- A41: Circular Regional exterior do Porto (Porto Regional Outer Circular)
- A42: Alfena-Lousada-highway

Centro (Costa de Prata-region)
- A17: Littoral Center-highway (between Mira and Aveiro)
- A25: only on the intersections between Esgueira and Angeja (Aveiro-area)
- A29: Auto-estrada da Costa de Prata (Costa de Prata-highway - between Estarreja and Vila Nova de Gaia)

Payment through electronic devices

In order for the vehicles to use the above mentioned highways, they should have an electronic device, which must be bought or hired beforehand at a Service Area (Área de Serviço) alongside the highways or at a post office (CTT/Correios). There are three types of electronic devices:

Electronic license plate device (Dispositivo electrónico de matrícula - DEM): the device is linked to the vehicle's license plate and cannot be transmitted to other cars.
Obtaining: at the highway service areas or other locations like the post offices and the Via Verde Portugal-shops.
Costs: €27 to purchase + preloading a minimum €10 for light vehicles and €20 for heavy vehicles.

Temporary device (Dispositivo temporário - DT): the best solution for a short stay, and as a result for vehicles with a foreign license plate; the license plate is not linked to the device, therefore, anonymity is guaranteed.
Obtaining: it is necessary to establish a lease contract with the responsible entities, at the highway service areas or other locations like the post offices and the Via Verde Portugal-shops.
Costs: deposit of €27 (that will be given back to the driver when the device is returned in good condition at the location it was rented from) + preloading a minimum of €10 for light vehicles and €20 for heavy vehicles. After returning the device, the driver can ask the responsible entities for a refund of the unused amount of the preloading payment.

Devices from a toll entity (Dispositivo de uma entidade de cobrança de Portagens - DECP) like Via Verde are also accepted on these highways. Although the license plate is not linked to the device, it is necessary to establish a contract with a toll entity. This can be used by vehicles with a foreign license plate that stay in Portugal for a longer period of time.
Obtaining: Via Verde-shops (www.viaverde.pt) 
Costs: €27 + direct debit from bank account every time the device is used.

Payment without electronic device:

Prepaid credit (only available for vehicles with a foreign license plate)
If the period you are staying in Portugal does not justify the option of the Temporary device, one can opt for charging based on the registration of an image of the license plate in everyone of the electronic toll booths. Before passing the highways on which the charging is exclusively electronic and through the CTT website, drivers (after being registered on this site and being provided with login and password) can choose one of the following modalities: 
- Make a prepayment valid for five weekdays, whatever the journeys made on roads covered by this system.
- Make a prepayment for predefined journeys on specific days. 
The payment is made through a valid credit card. The amount charged depends on the option chosen.
You can register here (only available in Portuguese): www2.ctt.pt/fectt/wcmservlet/ctt/particulares/correio/outros_servicos_estacao_correio/pagamento_portagens/matricula_estrangeira.html

Prepayment (only for vehicles with a Portuguese license plate)

If a vehicle does not have an electronic device when circulating at the highways concerned, a photo of the license plate will be made and saved until the payment is made.
Term for payment: the payment can be made at the second day after having circulated at the roads mentioned above and for a period of five weekdays, at the post office or at one of the shops signalized as "Payshop".
Costs: normal toll costs + administrative costs (an amount €0,25 for every time the roads were used with a maximum of €2 for each payment made)
Note: when a payment term has passed, the driver is in violation of the rules, and fines will be added to the administrative costs.

More information:
CTT - Tel: (+351) 707 26 26 26
Find a postoffice nearby: www2.ctt.pt/feapl_2/app/open/tools.jspx?tool=3&lang=01

We wish you a wonderful stay in Portugal and when of your return, we would like to receive your comments on our country. Welcome to Portugal!

Kind regards,

Turismo de Portugal 
www.visitportugal.com 
JS
Follow us on: 
http://facebook.com/Visitportugal ; http://twitter.com/visitportugal

For further information do not hesitate to contact us, we are at your disposal from Monday to Friday from 8h00 to 19h00.

Belgique/België: 078791818 | Deutschland: 0080020352035 | España: 902887712 | France: 0811653838 | Ireland: 1800943131 | Itália: 848391818 | Nederland: 0900 2658 999 | Portugal: 808781212 | Suisse/Schweiz: 0800101212 | Sverige: 0770930203 | UK: 08453551212 | Österreich: 0810900650 | Other countries: +351 211205050 
Tourist Information 
[email protected]

If you don't want to receive regularly information on Portugal please let us know.

____________________________________________________


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## 113016

Thanks Zepp,
They seem to be saying that the temporary device that they recommend for foreign registered vehicles must be returned to the issuing office for the refund!
Seems a lot of trouble for a holiday. Is it really worth it? :?:


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## Zepp

Grath said:


> Thanks Zepp,
> They seem to be saying that the temporary device that they recommend for foreign registered vehicles must be returned to the issuing office for the refund!
> Seems a lot of trouble for a holiday. Is it really worth it? :?:


I agree Grath more trouble than its worth we may just give Portugal a miss , also the web site where you can pay does not work and also from people on the ground we know you can't buy the box.

One guy on another forum said he has been trying to get hold of a box for 2 months its a joke.

oops forgot to say yes you have to return the box from where you bought it.........so that means back tracking or loosing your deposit

Paul


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## rayrecrok

Hi.
I have got in touch with my mate who lives in Portugal and he sent me this reply. :roll: 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Electronic tolls in Portugal.. 
Ray
I can not even begin to explain the 'pain in the arse' this involves. It is a real nightmare but before I begin on a comprehensive report I need to ask a couple of questions:

1) When are you coming? Before or after April
2) Which part of the country? Algarve, Lisbon or North?
3) Are you renting a car within Portugal or bringing in a foreign one?

The government everyone has hatred them but this time they excelled in their stupidity, so idiotic the scheme you could not make it up. I may not be the brightest star in the universe, I have a degree and my Mrs has two and yet we are confused by system - which for us should be easy. Brief explanation:

Traditionally there were motorways you paid and ones you didn't. The ones that were paying were private. Cars in Portugal have an option to buy a box (called Via Verde) where you attach it to the windscreen and each time you pass the Via Verde dedicated lane on the toll the money would be deducted from your bank account. You can also use it for car parks and petrol stations, great system.

Now the government decided that the motorways that were non paying will have to be paying. ow don't know how to exlain this without insulting a village idiot. Let's say they choose the village idiot or use one of their own political idiots to come with a scheme. The non private motorways would be charged, but because when they were made they were not prepapred to place tolls, so they placed on automated system. All cars will have their registration read and you have to pay at dedicated shops or post office within 4 days (I think). If you have via verde (the automated box for private motorways) these will work as well.

Bear with me, after all you asked the question! The Lisbon government decided to start this scheme on public motorways only up in the north. That pissed off many people so they said that if you love within certain areas you get 'positive discrimination' (great term!) so I can do ten trips without paying and after that get 15% discount. To apply for it is hard as hell, have signatures certified by notaries, copies and sent by post taking over 60 days to process, or go to one and only shop up north with a population of 4 million and queue up for 4-6 hours.

Then - what about the foreigners? Oh, they didn't think about that did they? There is massive traffic between north of Portugal and NW Spain. They come to Ikea and the main airport but can not come without avoided the automated toll. You know what the answer is? Take a deep breath: Foreigners have to 'rent' a box for some €50 and pay a minimum of €24 of charges, but the rent lasts two weeks, you get the deposit back but not the unused tolls. The Spanish are so pissed off they took Portugal to the EU court and not one Spanish car has been fined yet.

So, in April the remainder of Public motorways will have the automated system without the possibility of paying on site. Which is Public and which is private? Only the locals will know!
I reckon by then something has to give way because it is so idiotic.

If you rent a car it will be far easier but check with them but it's not that simple. If you are driving to the aiport and use a public motorway you can only pay a couple days later (once you are back home). Great isn't it. Then I can do that for you when I go and buy my paper as long as I have the license plate number.

I found the site explaining all of this but guess what? It's only in Portuguese!

I know my village idiot, and he is far more clever to the git that decided this system. Confused? Everyone is! .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously more to come when he answers my replys to his questions..

Qestion 1. I told him back end of November coming home back end of March 2012.

Question 2. told him Algarve but will be touring all over.

Question 3. I told him in our motorhome and towing the car on a trailer..


----------



## 113016

Hi Rayrecrok.
After reading your post it seems more and more that it just is not worth the hassle! :x 
Just think of the tourist money they will be loosing


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## Zepp

Hi Ray

Thank you for posting the reply from your mate it makes a very interesting read ....... I feel sorry for anyone living in Portugal


Paul


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

What I can't get my head round is. If Portugal is on it's arse financially why are they shooting themselves in the foot by stopping a big part of the tourism industry, by making folk who travel there in their own vehicles never mind the transport and other business travel so hard to travel there, all to save a bit of wages paying somebody to collect money in a toll booth.

Absolutely bonkers!.

I think a petition to an MEP needs starting....


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## lucy2

I have read this subject carefully & will continue but we are crossing from St Nazaire to Gijon in late aug intending heading for Portugal for 4 weeks but on reading this posting I am thinking is it worth all the hassle, we may just stay on the green coast of spain down to the border with Porugal. I will be keeping my eyes on this posting with great interest.


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## Zepp

I had another email from Turismo de Portugal after telling them the system does work.

Dear Mr PAUL,

Thank you for contacting Turismo de Portugal, and we have duly noted your comments.

We would like to call your attention to the fact that majority of motorways are of Brisa, which has the payement with money as usual:

http://www.brisa.pt/PresentationLayer/homepageclientes.aspx?menuid=1&exmenuid=0

Welcome to Portugal!

Kind regards,

Turismo de Portugal 
www.visitportugal.com


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

I can see the advantages of the system providing you can get hold of an electronic device.
I am hoping that I will be able to get one up and running before next November, if I can't by that time all is lost in Portugal :roll: ..


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## erneboy

Zepp, why not thank your correspondent and ask what he suggests you do on toll roads which are not Brisa? After all I assume you could find your self driving up to a barrier with no way through and no possibility of turning round and going back the way you came, Alan.


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## 113016

Zepp said:


> I had another email from Turismo de Portugal after telling them the system does work.
> 
> Dear Mr PAUL,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Turismo de Portugal, and we have duly noted your comments.
> 
> We would like to call your attention to the fact that majority of motorways are of Brisa, which has the payement with money as usual:
> 
> http://www.brisa.pt/PresentationLayer/homepageclientes.aspx?menuid=1&exmenuid=0
> 
> Welcome to Portugal!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Turismo de Portugal
> www.visitportugal.com


Thanks Zepp, but it still does not help us much.
I think I will wait and see what happens and if not sorted, I will not be going to Portugal and they will loose the money that I would have been spending there.
Multiply that by a few hundred and possibly thousand with car drivers and business men and they will certainly be loosing a substantial amount!


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## Zepp

erneboy said:


> Zepp, why not thank your correspondent and ask what he suggests you do on toll roads which are not Brisa? After all I assume you could find your self driving up to a barrier with no way through and no possibility of turning round and going back the way you came, Alan.


To be honest I get the feeling they want to tell us how bad it is and the system does not work but they have to give the official line


----------



## Zepp

Grath said:


> I agree Grath no help at all
> 
> We leave in 3 weeks for a 6 month trip and we are still not sure if we are going to Portugal now , we will decide on the drive through France if it's worth taking a chance.
> 
> My guess is they can't be enforcing the fines if there is no way for foreigner / tourists to pay the tolls but my portuguese language skills are not up to explaining this to plod that I have no way of paying the tolls lol
> 
> Paul


----------



## lucy2

Zepp said:


> I had another email from Turismo de Portugal after telling them the system does work.
> 
> Dear Mr PAUL,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Turismo de Portugal, and we have duly noted your comments.
> 
> We would like to call your attention to the fact that majority of motorways are of Brisa, which has the payement with money as usual:
> 
> http://www.brisa.pt/PresentationLayer/homepageclientes.aspx?menuid=1&exmenuid=0
> 
> Welcome to Portugal!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Turismo de Portugal
> www.visitportugal.com


 I must remember to stick to the majority roads then,, simples.


----------



## peribro

Whilst we sometimes moan about how things do and don't get done in this country, we seldom seem to make quite such a hash of things as some of our more southerly neighbours in Europe manage to do. Just imagine if this fiasco had happened here - headlines on national TV and newspapers, discussions on Question Time and calls for the resignation of the Secretary of State for Transport. Makes me glad to be British!


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## Zepp

Just had a thought we tow a car but we are not taking it on this trip.


But Im guessing if you do take a car you would have to have 2 of these electronic boxes if you intend using the car on your trip.


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## Grizzly

We've just arrived at Camping Lisboa in Lisbon.
We took the safe option from Caminha and stuck to the coast road to Porto - the N13. This was on the advice of the receptionist at Caminha Orbitur site.She reckoned anyone would be mad to go down the automatic toll road. An alternative would have been to go cross-country to the A28, which has conventional toll booths but this would more than double our mileage.

This road was excellent until about half way down when we got stuck in the lunchtime traffic in X town ( sorry, no map handy) and it took us an hour to clear. We then went by further back roads to the Orbitur site in Porto. These roads were cobbled all the way- about 30 km- and severely tested the suspension and our fillings. They were reasonably signed and wide enough but not roads we'd have chosen.

We asked at a post office in Porto if they had the cards/ maps etc but were told they had had the maps but had run out and did not have any of the boxes.

We're now safe from the automatic tolls being south of Porto- we used the motorway to go round Porto when we moved on but knew we were south of the last toll barrier so safe.

We met a UK MHer resident in France who knew nothing of the new toll roads. He had just driven to Coimbra and, as far as he knew, had not been clocked - but might have been ! We can't see anything relevant on the windscreens of the few vans we have seen but there have only been about 12 in the whole trip.

So...it looks as if the whole thing is total chaos and will cause grief to the bulk of foreign visitors when it is rolled out over the whole country in early April. There is a general election on Sunday so we'll have to hope that the people who devised this are voted out !

G


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## Zepp

Thank you for the update G and desipe the tolls it sounds like your having a great time


I agree once the tolls are rolled out it will be mad 



Paul


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## 113016

Thanks very much for the update Grizzly, pleased that you managed it, but very apprehensive as to how it will be after April when we are about to be going.
Thanks again 
Did you use the the M way from Matosinhos to go south over the bridge?


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## jiwawa

We're outside Santander at the moment and had seriously thought of visiting Portugal - though it hadn't been on the original plan.

However, after reading this post I think we've changed our mind!!


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## 113016

JWW said:


> We're outside Santander at the moment and had seriously thought of visiting Portugal - though it hadn't been on the original plan.
> 
> However, after reading this post I think we've changed our mind!!


From what I have read it may be possible to head south west(ish) and arrive at Oporto, hopefully missing these stupid automatic tolls!


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## 113016

Kenspain on Wild has managed to get hold of the kit.
Don't know if this will help any

Post 15

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/12093-portugal-automatic-tolls-2.html#post121149


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## HeyPortugal

Hi to all MH owners.

I hope you find this information about Scut Motorways helpful.

I am the editor of Hey Portugal Magazine and Website.

www.heyportugal.com website and all its content is copywritten, and it states clearly in our Terms & Conditions that written permission is required to copy anything.

We would not normally give permission for full articles to be copied, mainly because we are continually updating our articles and pages so informaiton that is copied can quickly be out of date and we do not want out-of-date information attributed to us.

However please feel free to add a link to the article, so that if it is updated your forum users will always have access to the latest information that we have.

I hope you understand my position as editor. I am not against people using our information, after all that is the service we provide, but it is much better for all of us if a hyperlink is used to ensure the very latest information that we have is being accessed.

Regards

Wendy
Editor of Hey Portugal



Zepp said:


> Most of the below has been posted before but I thought I would paste and copy the below as there is a few new points on there
> 
> Update 14th January 2011
> 
> Although people are aware of the fact that the Norte Litoral, Costa de Prata and Grande Porto SCUT motorways are now electronic toll motorways, most aren't aware of exactly which parts of which motorway are subject to tolls. If you want to see a map of the sections that are subject to tolls, click here.
> 
> The system for charging tolls on SCUT motorways in Portugal came into force on 15th October. There is much confusion about how the tolls will be applied, what motorways you can use etc. We hope to clarify this for you here at Hey Portugal.
> 
> Hey Portugal has put together the following information from knowledge gained from Via Verde, Estradas Portugal and other sources. More will follow as we get information from the various departments and from you. There are conflicts of information even from the official agencies, so please bear with us as we try to get this page into a comprehensive source of 'acurate' information.
> 
> If you have any experiences that are different from what we say here then please let us know so we can share it with other readers.
> 
> Terms Used by the various authorities
> 
> DE - Electronic Device (this can be a DECP, DM or TD)
> DECP - Cpmpatible Electronic Devices. A Via Verde Identifier is one of these, and will work with the electronic tolls.
> DEM - Electronic Registration Device
> TD - Temporary Device
> 
> Motorway Signs
> Please contact us if you see any different signs, this is what Estradas Portugal have said will be on the signs. They said that sections will be clearly marked with signs at the start
> 
> The main word to look for on the new SCUT tolls is 'electrónica'
> PORTAGEM ELECTRONICA - Electronic Tolls
> 
> PORTAGEM EXCLUSIVAMENTE ELECTRONICOS - Exclusively Electronic Tolls
> 
> LANCO COM PORTAGEM - With Toll Booths
> 
> LANCO COM PORTGAM ELECTRONICA- With Electronic Tolls Only
> 
> Motorways with Via Verde Toll Booths in existence
> 
> There will be no change to these, you can continue to use the tolls with either the Via Verde Identifier or by PAYG at the booths. Well for now anyway!
> 
> Exclusive Electronic Tolls
> These motorways will only have the overhead gantry systems, they will not have tolls booths or machines where you can Pay As You Go (PAYG) as with Via Verde Type motorway toll areas.
> The first of the SCUT motorways to be converted to this system are;
> Grande Porto, Costa Prata and Norte Litoral. Click here to view a map of the Toll Sections
> 
> Payment Options:
> There are essentially 2 options; Pre and Post Pay. Pre Pay is cheaper.
> 
> Prepay
> If you have a DE then you will either pre-pay by loading an amount on to it or you will be debited automatically from your bank account.
> IMPORTANT NOTE: If you have already applied for your DE but not received it, you will need to post Pay (as below) until you get it but if you take evidence of your application (reference number) when you pay you will not be charged the administration fee.
> 
> Postpay
> If you do not have a DE then you are expected to go to a PayStation or CTT within 5 days of using the motorway, with your vehicle registration number and pay your tolls. An administration fee will also be added to the amount due. If it is not paid within 5 days then fines will also be added.
> 
> We have been told by 1 person that they went to CTT, and the post office assistant had no idea what to do or how to check or register their vehicle! Any other experiences anyone?
> 
> Electronic Devices (DE)
> With the exception of Temporary Devices (TD) each device is registered to a particular vehicle registration number. They are not interchangeable without re-registering the device with the supplier. It is reported that EDs (either Via Verde or the ones for the SCUT tolls only) are available from all Post Offices, Via Verde offices and Motorway service area, as well as som banks. However, at the moment stocks are very low are when any locations gets them the word seems to get around and they do not last long. You can also apply for Via Verde Identifier via the Via Verde website, but there is a log backlog of applications at the moment.
> 
> Via Verde Identifiers will also work on the SCUT motorways, but we cannot establish if this applies the other way..ie. can a DEM be used in a Via Verde Toll?
> 
> Electronic Registration Device (DEM)
> This is similar to the Via Verde Identifier, in that it is attached to the windscreen. They are not attached to the Registration Plate, as has been mentioned on other websites. Due to demand, stocks of these are rare at the moment…good forward planning by the Portuguese authorities, as usual.
> 
> Temporary Devices (TD)
> These can be leased from motorway service stations or CTT/post offices. The price for the leasing is proportional to the time of use. A deposit shall also be paid (an amount equal to the selling price of the device). The deposit is re-payable on return of the device BUT NOT any credit, so don't pre-pay.
> When leasing the device, you can choose between two methods of payment:
> * automatic payment: debit from a multibanco or credit card for the tolls charges used;
> * prepayment: preloading a minimum of 50 Euros (light vehicles) or of 100 Euros (heavy vehicles). In this case, the preloaded and unused balance is non-refundable.
> They are not registered to a particular vehicle, so are anonymous. They are designed for short term use on the Portuguese toll motorways and so are ideal for foreign registered vehicles.
> 
> Foreign Registered Vehicles
> IMPORTANT NOTE: Driver of vehicles without a DE (any type) which are not Portuguese registered should avoid using these motorways! Photos are taken of registration plates and bills and fines will be sent to your registered address in whatever country the car is registered.
> Fines for Foreign plated vehicles using the road without a DE are 10x toll fee, with a minimum charge of 25€ and a maximum of 125€.
> 
> No information yet if non Portuguese debit cards can be used for automatic payment.
> 
> Links:
> Via verde website
> Toll Rates, from Estradas Portugal website using Google Translate


Hey Portugal - Scut Motorways


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## Zepp

Hi Wendy 
That would be my fault I never give it a thought it wont happen again please accept my apoligise it won't happen again

Paul


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## HeyPortugal

Thanks for your response Zepp, I understand.

Links are always better to ensure the latest content is being read, and I welcome people adding links to our information if they think it will be useful to others.

Wendy

quote="Zepp"]Hi Wendy 
That would be my fault I never give it a thought it wont happen again please accept my apoligise it won't happen again

Paul[/quote]


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## Annsman

We _were _ going to explore Portugal after our tour of Morocco with DD in March. However I think we'll give it a miss now and stay in Western Spain and do that up to the Green Coast. Sad really as we've only been to Portugal as "ordinary" holiday makers and were looking forward to it.

An e-mail to the Portugese Embassy will be sent tomorrow explaining why we will be giving their country a miss and spending about a thousand, or more, Euros in the neighbours country. Perhaps all those that don't go might do the same and they'll get the message this is costing cash.

Just a thought that crossed my mind as I read this thread. What classification will motorhomes fall into? Bearing in mind the different classes we've been faced with in France & Spain we could get through Portugal thinking we are a light vehicle and find out we have been classed as a large one and be faced with a massive toll bill and no one to argue it with.

Just not worth the hassle.


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## Grizzly

annsman weve been classed as class 2 this week. we were class one in spain and i did try half heartedly to dispute this but that is what we are.

tolls are not cheap eg 23 euros from coimbra to lisbon.

lovely country lovely people and lisbon is amazing !

g


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## Grizzly

Grizzly has asked me to add:
We came from Valenca on the Spanish boarder south to Porto on the N13 as far as Povoa de Varzim and then on D roads to the Matosinhos Orbitor site North of Porto. The D roads were difficult and rough.
We were given a map by another van in Caminha. It shows the electronic tolls. On the A28 they start at Viana Do Castelo and continue till just north of the A42 exit. There seems to be some doubt about the A27 from Viana do Castelo to the A3.
The A3 is all manual tolls Valenca to Porto.
Near Porto the A41/A42 from the A28 to the A11 is all electronic tolls.
The A4 from the A28 to A3 is electronic tolls. But not after that.
The A4 is electronic tolls from the A28 to the AA3.
The A20 (the next Porto ring road is not tolled)

That is all at the moment that we know of. We drove across the high level bridge south from Porto without any problems.

There are expected to be electronic tolls south of Porto starting in the spring but they are not operating yet.

The maps we are are photocopies and although the toll gates are clear I am not 100% sure about the other roads where we have not driven along them.

I hope that this helps

Safariboy


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## presto

This all looks very complicated for me.We were heading to Portugal from Costa Del Sol in mid April but to be honest I wonder is it worth it.Our original plan was to go down to Calahonda near Fuengirola travel up through Portugal back to Gijon for our ferry to St Nazarene.Think we will have to re route unless things change will keep looking at this forum.Thanks everyone for all your research.

Presto


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## HeyPortugal

*Make your voice about Tolls heard!*

This makes really interesting reading.

I think it would be very useful for anyone here who is changing their plans to send an email to the British Consul at [email protected] and see if we get anything changed.

There are many petitions going on in Portugal about these new tolls so any additional pressure, especially comments from Tourists (Portugals main source of income) will help to put pressure on the government.

We know that Portugal has to raise money but they are not going ot do this by turning away tourists..


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## me0wp00

Ive emailed the british consul and the embassy but don't expect to hear anything back, also asked how to obtain the device or prepay account on visit portugal's facebook wall.
My parents are really upset about this as they were going to Portugal in April for my dad's 65th birthday, it's their first BIG trip and now their worried they will get huge fines or will be so stressed worrying about getting hold of the device or making sure they don't hit one of the toll roads that their seriously contemplating not going now


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## Annsman

I've e-mailed the Portuguese Tourist Board and told them we're seriously thinking of not going because of the confusion, the lack of accessibility of the tag boxes and the lack of information available in English. I've also questioned the toll charges on motorways paid for with EU money, I mentioned the number of motorhomers posting on forums that they are turning away from the country and staying in Spain.

I'll post any reply I get.

Just wondering, in France & Spain the non-toll roads are of a reasonable standard and we're quite happy to use those. We've not been to Portugal in our van before and if anyone who has, could you say whether the roads there are ok to go on, or are they crap?


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## me0wp00

Ok I had this reply from Facebook, visit portugal

Hi Pippa,
The correct link is http://www2.ctt.pt/fectt/wcmservlet...agamento_portagens/matricula_estrangeira.html
Check out also our page about Electronic Tolls:
http://www.visitportugal....com/NR/exeres/D1F46576-727B-42CA-BA69-C33AFBA3D81C,frameless.htm
If you need more help send us e-mail to [email protected]
Hope you have a nice time in Portugal

I'm trying to register atm and this will be for the prepaid no device needed, am awaiting an email and would be interested in a list of how much the tolls are for which roads, any ideas ?
thanks 
Pippa


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## me0wp00

I've gone on the site and it all seems fairly easy to navigate and buy a prepaid credit, the only thing I'm not sure about if someone could assist :-

Challenger on a Ducato base would be a class 2 wouldn't it, as it must be 1m10 or higher at the front axle ? (the van is at my parents so I cant measure it atm) although it's a bit unfair if a car with a caravan being pulled will get away with a class 1.


I've emailed them back asking is it being rolled out everywhere in Portugal before Easter and will it be possible to purchase a countrywide pass and if you use the 5 day pass up can you then buy another one. 
The 5 day pass is 10E62 for a class 2 vehicle so if its that easy (which it seems it might be) it's worth spending the 10e for piece of mind for my parents :lol:


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## christine1310

Annsman said:


> Just wondering, in France & Spain the non-toll roads are of a reasonable standard and we're quite happy to use those. We've not been to Portugal in our van before and if anyone who has, could you say whether the roads there are ok to go on, or are they crap?


Hi Annsman

Winter 2009 we used non toll roads, whenever it was possible, from the Algarve to Lisbon and then onto the Spanish border going towards Salamanca in Spain. They were about as good as most A roads in Devon or Dorset.

Christine


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## Annsman

I've managed to register on the site but can't seem to get anywhere else. Clues please!


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## Zepp

Annsman said:


> I've managed to register on the site but can't seem to get anywhere else. Clues please!


We had a go last week and got half way through and it would not let us go any further.

We are still thinking its not worth the hassle there is a very good chance .....we will just not go to Portugal.

By the time it is rolled out through Portugal there won't be that many non toll roads left

Paul


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## me0wp00

Annsman, 
Follow Zepp's instructions, 

go back to the site and log in again 

· Once you are in you will be asked for some more details. 
· At this point you will need to know your vehicles registration. So you cannot order these prepayments before you pick up your hire car. Note, at the time of writing, the second tab at the top of this form does not work. To go onto the next page press the red button marked Seguinte.
· The next page gives you several more options this is the type of card you want to purchase. Again I feel this does not need too much explanation, does it? After making your choice; hit the red button.
· The last page is the total you are going to be charged. At the bottom of the page you can choose between Visa and Master card. To the right you have to fill out the section “Data de Início da Viagem:” This means date of travel. Below the calendar is a small tick box. Devolução do saldo remanescente This means that you want any outstanding money from your card returned to your choice of payment. However expect the Portuguese and or your CC to make charges for this. The section below this is a ticked box stating you agree to the terms and conditions. Links are given to these terms too. Once filled in hit the Confirmar red button.
· This brings up a small window asking if you want to confirm if you want to proceed with the payment. Sim is Yes.
· This brings us up to the payment section; fill out your card details. I have not gone beyond this page yet as I do not presently intend on travelling to Portugal.

It worked fine for us but i'm waiting to find out exactly when we're going to hit portugal before going to the payment page 
hth
pippa


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## 113016

I used to drive trucks to Portugal via Madrid and the only toll roads were between Lisboa and Oporto. In via Badajos and out via Villa Formosa to Salamanca and Avilla
It looks to me from reading this thread that they have put tolls everywhere and I for one don,t need to be paying tolls, therefore I seriously doubt that we will be going to Portugal.
If I find that we can navigate around without driving on back roads and cobble streets, I will reconsider.
I don,t mind the odd toll but I will not be forced onto them, including the ring roads around Oporto and Lisboa and the bridges.


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## Annsman

Pippa, just to confirm, I want this for the van not a hire car, does it matter? (Before I start paying for stuff!)

Anyway from the 2010 AA map we've got the non motorways seem to cover the areas we want to visit, so as we are only going in April, I'll wait until we get there.


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## me0wp00

no, I got to the page that you choose which class of vehicle and put your car/van reg in. My parents will try to avoid the toll roads but will buy the 5 day pass just incase they hit one and for 10e62 it's not worth the stress worrying about not having one.


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## oldenstar

Currently at Turiscampo, near Lagos in Portugal, and have not been on MHF for a while, and admit to not reading this thread in full, so forgive me if repeating other posts.

Most Portugal visitors head for the Algarve, so to avoid most tolls simply go straight down thru Spain via Salamanca, Caceres, to Seville, then direct along into Portugal where you will cross onto the A22.

There are no tolls on this route down thru Spain if you come via Santander, and none after the French border area if coming down thru France.

The A22 is currently toll free but despite much local opposition is apparently due to be tolled after July, I think.

There is no sign of any activity re toll booths being set up, or anything at all in fact, and we went from Lagos to Quarteira yesterday.

The N-125 can be used instead for most places but is likely to be pretty horrific if these tolls do come in.

I am amazed that they are considering this because those toll roads which we did use this year (Badajoz to Evora then the last bit from Baja down to the A22) were empty by UK standards.

BTW petrol (for the hire car) is now 1.53 Euros per litre. Diesel is cheaper at 1.33 Euros.

HTH someone

Paul


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## jiwawa

Thought I would just add my bit - we're currently in Fatima (well worth a visit), north of Lisbon.

We were very unsure about whether or not we should come to Portugal but we're very glad we did.

We set our sat-nav to not use motorways and we've been fine; some 'interesting' roads, but that's what it's all about, isn't it?

So, if you've sat-nav, I'd say 'Certainly, give it a go' - you won't be disappointed.


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## 113016

Has anybody got updates as to the current situation.
I am particularly interested in information from the north as far down as Lisboa.
I don't use tolls unless I have to or maybe make a mistake. I was thinking of the ring roads around Oporto, I understand they or it is now peage?
Thanks


----------



## Grizzly

Grath said:


> Has anybody got updates as to the current situation.
> I am particularly interested in information from the north as far down as Lisboa.
> I don't use tolls unless I have to or maybe make a mistake. I was thinking of the ring roads around Oporto, I understand they or it is now peage?
> Thanks


If you are coming south from the Santiago area of Spain to Porto you have a choice of three routes. The old Payage has toll booths and so is no problem (but costs). The local road down the cost is fine for most of the way and is free. Near Porto it gets complicated and is cobbled. With a sat nav and some general idea of where you are going it is OK.
The old good nonpagage (a little further from the sea) is now electronically tolled and this is the problem. It is the road near the coast that looks good on the maps.
Near Porto the first two ring roads are electronically tolled but the one nearest in is not. At the moment there is no electronic tolls south of Porto but there is an expectation that the Algarve coast road will be in April. However when were were there about a Month ago there was no sign of preparation.

I am sorry that I cannot remember the numbers of the roads but you should be able to work out which is which.

As far as we have been able to find out there is no way of getting the card/box without an address in Portugal. There is talk of a scheme for non residents but even the AA of Portugal did not know. The box/card also would be expensive for a short trip.

If you just drive on the electronic toll roads I have no idea if they would ever catch up with you but there was a police/VOSA check on our way out.

Bets Wises,

Safariboy


----------



## 113016

Thanks Grizzly for the update.
I know the old roads as I used to drive HGV to Oporto, Lisboa and Sines but that was over 10 years ago when I finished and things will obviously changed with many new motorways.
I remember only one peage M way.
Got a bit of relearning to do I guess!
I used to go in via Badajoz, non M way to Setubal (ish) and down to Sines then up to Lisboa and Oporto and back out via Villa Formosa back to Madrid.
I loaded in Madrid for Portugal and again reloaded in Madrid for home.
Nice little run around.


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi.

Are there facilities to pay as you go with a credit card machine at the toll booths instead of going through the green lane?....


----------



## jedi

This seems to explain it all in some detail:

http://www.visitportugal.com/NR/exeres/D1F46576-727B-42CA-BA69-C33AFBA3D81C,frameless.htm

Jed


----------



## rayrecrok

Hmm.

All I can say about it all after fighting my way through everything translating this translating that and coming to the conclusion if you are not Portuguese with an address in Portugal you will not get a device for your windscreen, and the only option is pre paid with a credit card and you have to specify a date and you have 5 days to use your toll from that date. 
It also appears you can only do it on line unless you travel miles to find somewhere to pay it, and never mind all the caffufell in reverse when you are coming home finding a wi fi signal to get on line..

That is unless some one has sussed it out different.  

Its a nightmare! :roll: ..

The only conclusion that can be drawn is Portugal doesn't want the rest of the world to go on their toll roads, who wants to drive miles on potholed and cobbled roads with corners that takes you two or three goes at to get round, in the little towns that were built for cart horses..

Bugger.


----------



## Zepp

Just read this sorry if its been posted already it was dated 3/02/2011

Paul

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/galicia/2011/02/03/0003_201102G3P12991.htm

The annual review of public company Estradas de Portugal just to demonstrate the fiscal cost of implementing tolls on the highways of northern neighbor, despite the difficulties that generated the automatic payment system adopted and the complications caused in trade circulation in Galicia. In just two and half months Estradas de Portugal has entered 45 million euros to payments made in tolls on expressways affected by charging for its use, a figure which in any case the company also joins the collection of other road which operates in the Midwest. 
The Portuguese government aims to reach revenues of approximately EUR 330 million a year when the new toll motorway work in another four more to be added to the three since Oct. 15 have such a levy from Viana do Castelo and Aveiro. Executive forecast Luso passes to implement the same model of tolls from 15 April in the road linking Viseu and Chaves, which again affect connections to Galicia, Guarda-Torres Novas, Aveiro-Vilar Formoso and known as the Via do Infante, Algarve. 
The imposition of more than 55,000 fines in three months has finally Portuguese motorists to convince users of the toll highways from the convenience of carrying automatic payment devices to avoid penalties, to the extent that it has sold 225,000 units data to identify vehicles. 
No fines Galician 
Although the Portuguese Government has taken to overcome the difficulties that foreign motorists might encounter when buying the devices, no driver has been fined Galician time, as indicated by the Administration informed sources Lusa. As revealed La Voz de Galicia in November, the control systems installed on the motorways are still unable to properly read Spanish license plates, having been prepared solely to identify Portuguese plates, consisting of three pairs of letters and numbers, rather than the three letters and four numbers of vehicles Galicia and the rest of Spain. 
While the Portuguese government announced that it would conduct an outreach campaign in Galicia to explain how to afford to pay tolls in your country, this has not been carried out. Although the regional government announced the existence of various forms to pay tolls in Portugal, the political agreement that made it possible to Socrates Executive has not yet been effectively developed. Buy at the Correos website bonuses that justify the payment for transit through specific sections of highways lusas is an almost impossible task, as well as purchasing the same tickets on the ATM network in which they had been assured that there would be such a possibility. Neither devices have been put up for sale in Spanish post offices. Therefore, this week the president of the Xunta again called in Oporto a system of tolls easier for motorists Galicia, while the Left Bloc in Portugal claimed the Assembly Government of the Republic to remove at least toll on the Galicia road linking the north of the country. The Bloc maintains that "the introduction of tolls is a factor adversely affecting the economy and the competitiveness of the North, not only in domestic terms but also in relation to Galicia, and can be seen as a new border between the two countries."


----------



## peribro

Apologies if this has been pointed out already but what really takes the biscuit is that most of the roads that are now being tolled were funded by grants from the EU. What a wonderful system - we, along with the French and the Germans, pay through our taxes for the roads to be built and then we have to pay (if we can work out how) to use them!


----------



## Zepp

Also just found this

Paul

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/galicia/2011/02/19/0003_201102G19P6993.htm

Posted 19/02/2011

The Portuguese Association of Tour Operators (AETP) has shown through a statement his concern over a possible drop in tourism in the country due to the recent implementation (October 2010) of tolls on motorways lusas-bordering Galicia, both domestic vehicles and for foreigners. He showed that overnight stays in Portugal were reduced by 18% in November 2010, the month following such implementation, over the same period last year. 
"We believe we still have time to correct an improper road charging strategy, especially in a country peripheral to Europe and still has no high-speed train," said the AETP, according to Efe. The agency said that the tourism industry is the largest exporter of Portugal and present this information to officials of the government. Moreover and as expected by the Executive luso, other highways will be added soon to this conversion that were in the north.


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi Paul.

Thanks for the articles.

But! is it me being thick or are they as clear as mud.

Who could we lobby in our government to try and resolve this issue which is non of our or the rest of the non Portuguese's making..


----------



## Zepp

We have spoken to 3 Brits in France who have just spent the winter in Portugal who knew nothing about the new toll roads .

We have also spoken to another 2 Brits , 2 Germans and a Dutchman on the way to Portugal ( sounds like a joke lol ) but none of them were aware of the new tolls, if they start handing out fines afew people will be in for a shock  .

We have decided to go to Portugal as I don’t think they are finding tourist YET , we will post any info .


We will be there within 2 days 


Paul & Lynne


----------



## Zepp

rayrecrok said:


> Hi Paul.
> 
> Thanks for the articles.
> 
> But! is it me being thick or are they as clear as mud.
> 
> Who could we lobby in our government to try and resolve this issue which is non of our or the rest of the non Portuguese's making..


Hi Ray

I don't think anyone understands the rules or how it works , I also found a few other articles but to tell you the truth it has done my head in lol .

I am just going to play the dumb tourist , that won't be hard for me lol

Paul


----------



## Terryg

> I have emailed Via Verde offices, requesting details of registration and purchase of the electronic device for non Portuguese EU resident. Did try this on-line at Via Verde website, unfortunately some information required can only be provided by a permanent resident of Portugal. ( ID, tax ID etc…. ) I will keep this thread all updated.


Hi all,

Well its been just over a month since I sent the email and I have had a reply which indicates what we already know.

Email Content (Google Translated):

Dear (a). Mr (s).,

We acknowledge receipt of Doc (attached) which deserves our full attention. 
In response, delegations will find the forms for the purchase of identifiers.

However, please note that our stores have to initialize the marketing of new electronic devices, so if you move personally to any of our service stations, electronic devices shall be issued in their own time.

It is noted that the apparatus Via Verde has a cost of 27.50 Euros 0, however, are currently in force Electronic Campaign Statement, in which case the customer subscribes to accept the electronic statement, you can acquire the identifier for the value of 25.00 Euros. However, this campaign involves a period of one year loyalty to the mode of electronic statement.

Please be advised that, each identifier may be used only in the car initially identified in the declaration of accession, which is required to correctly display the identifier in the glass of the car, or if it is a motorcycle, purse, sent specifically for this purpose, so can only be used in the vehicle to which it is associated.

But may subsequently require change to another car, since it belongs to the same class of pricing, however, before using the new car, you must make the request for amendment of registration (by letter, fax or e-mail ) and wait for the confirmation letter of enrollment change.

The identifier can not be used in two or more different vehicles simultaneously.

The Green Route Identifier "identifies" just a vehicle, that he is attached.

Should you wish to use the Via Verde service with more than one vehicle, the customer must request the corresponding number of identifiers.

Whenever you change your car, you can keep the same ID, if the new car belong to the same class earlier, and by letter or fax request to updated data, awaiting written confirmation of receipt of alteração.Se classes will not coincide to request new ID, which implies new purchase.

with best regards,

Operations Service 
Via Verde Portugal, Sa 
(Gestao.clientes @ viaverde.pt)

Mail attachments are below

Terry.


----------



## Terryg

More files.................. sorry can't translate .pdf files.


----------



## coppo

Terryg said:


> I have emailed Via Verde offices, requesting details of registration and purchase of the electronic device for non Portuguese EU resident. Did try this on-line at Via Verde website, unfortunately some information required can only be provided by a permanent resident of Portugal. ( ID, tax ID etc…. ) I will keep this thread all updated.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well its been just over a month since I sent the email and I have had a reply which indicates what we already know.
> 
> Email Content (Google Translated):
> 
> Dear (a). Mr (s).,
> 
> We acknowledge receipt of Doc (attached) which deserves our full attention.
> In response, delegations will find the forms for the purchase of identifiers.
> 
> However, please note that our stores have to initialize the marketing of new electronic devices, so if you move personally to any of our service stations, electronic devices shall be issued in their own time.
> 
> It is noted that the apparatus Via Verde has a cost of 27.50 Euros 0, however, are currently in force Electronic Campaign Statement, in which case the customer subscribes to accept the electronic statement, you can acquire the identifier for the value of 25.00 Euros. However, this campaign involves a period of one year loyalty to the mode of electronic statement.
> 
> Please be advised that, each identifier may be used only in the car initially identified in the declaration of accession, which is required to correctly display the identifier in the glass of the car, or if it is a motorcycle, purse, sent specifically for this purpose, so can only be used in the vehicle to which it is associated.
> 
> But may subsequently require change to another car, since it belongs to the same class of pricing, however, before using the new car, you must make the request for amendment of registration (by letter, fax or e-mail ) and wait for the confirmation letter of enrollment change.
> 
> The identifier can not be used in two or more different vehicles simultaneously.
> 
> The Green Route Identifier "identifies" just a vehicle, that he is attached.
> 
> Should you wish to use the Via Verde service with more than one vehicle, the customer must request the corresponding number of identifiers.
> 
> Whenever you change your car, you can keep the same ID, if the new car belong to the same class earlier, and by letter or fax request to updated data, awaiting written confirmation of receipt of alteração.Se classes will not coincide to request new ID, which implies new purchase.
> 
> with best regards,
> 
> Operations Service
> Via Verde Portugal, Sa
> (Gestao.clientes @ viaverde.pt)
> 
> Mail attachments are below
> 
> Terry.
Click to expand...

What a complete fanny on this is.

How to complicate matters.

Paul.


----------



## arh

My thoughts on the situation after reading all the way through this thread is that "at this moment" they cannot read the number plates of "foreign" vehicles so no fines will be charged. Run as much as possible on the M/ways :roll: :roll: arh.


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi.

It is all waffle from an organisation who haven't a clue or an answer.

If they don't know how it works and they have introduced it, how can any body else figure it out. It's a shambles.

I have e mailed them as well.. 

I suggest everybody does the same they might get their act together :roll: 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To.
gestao.clientes @ viaverde.pt

Hi. 
I intend visiting Portugal from the United Kingdom during December this year through to March next year. I will be touring all round your country and this will involve using your toll roads.

I am experiencing great difficulty in obtaining the electronic device to automatically take the toll charge, the system seems to be set up to preclude anybody who is not resident in Portugal and putting a visitor to your country in a vulnerable position re fines for non payment of tolls.

Could you tell me what a non Portuguese visitor needs to do to be able to legally use the new tolls, I have been to your country many times and never had a problem, why have you decided to make it so difficult for visitors from the rest of the world to visit Portugal.

Could I have an explanation on the procedure that I will have to follow as a non Portuguese resident to comply with the payment of tolls on any roads in your country that carry the automatic collection of tolls.

Explanation in English would be appreciated.

Many thanks Ray Walker..


----------



## jedi

rayrecrok said:


> Hi I suggest everybody does the same they might get their act together :roll: quote]
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> I'm setting off to Portugal in 2 or 3 weeks. Do you mind if I copy your letter to send to them. ( the names will be changed to protect the innocent :lol: )
> 
> Jed


----------



## zulurita

I have just sent an email as I would also like to go to Portugal in December. This is really putting me off.

I also did one to the Lisbon tourist office but I haven't had a reply.


----------



## Mike48

Surely the best people to contact are staff at the Portugese Embassy in London which has a Tourist Office attached. The Embassy needs to be made aware of the difficulties faced by foreign travellers to their country and possibly might be able to provide an intelligible response. The contact point is:

Portuguese Embassy in London
11 Belgrave Square,
London,
SW1X 8PP.
Tel: 020 7235 5331
Fax: 020 7245 1287

http://portugal.embassyhomepage.com/


----------



## rayrecrok

jedi said:


> rayrecrok said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi I suggest everybody does the same they might get their act together :roll: quote]
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> I'm setting off to Portugal in 2 or 3 weeks. Do you mind if I copy your letter to send to them. ( the names will be changed to protect the innocent :lol: )
> 
> Jed
> 
> 
> 
> Fill your boots, the more the merrier..
Click to expand...


----------



## Zepp

We are now in Portugal

We filled up with diesel and headed towards the A25 to fill up with LPG , we came across a police check point and were pulled over, there was no problem we were just asked where we were heading (we said we didn't know and they laughed) as they spoke good English Paul asked about the new electronic toll roads. They said that they were not currently enforcing them and he told us that he has not paid when he has travelled on them* (the situation could change at any time).*

We also went into the tourist information centre and we asked the girl about the new electronic toll roads and she just laughed . She said no one knew what was happing with them it's a complete joke and it would cost her a extra 300€ a month . She was not a big fan of the new electronic toll roads , she also said the Spanish were also complaining about them .

Not sure when we will get back on line but if we hear anything else we will post it

Paul & Lynne


----------



## JockandRita

Zepp said:


> We are now in Portugal
> 
> We filled up with diesel and headed towards the A25 to fill up with LPG , we came across a police check point and were pulled over, there was no problem we were just asked where we were heading (we said we didn't know and they laughed) as they spoke good English Paul asked about the new electronic toll roads. They said that they were not currently enforcing them and he told us that he has not paid when he has travelled on them* (the situation could change at any time).*
> 
> We also went into the tourist information centre and we asked the girl about the new electronic toll roads and she just laughed . She said no one knew what was happing with them it's a complete joke and it would cost her a extra 300€ a month . She was not a big fan of the new electronic toll roads , she also said the Spanish were also complaining about them .
> 
> Not sure when we will get back on line but if we hear anything else we will post it
> 
> Paul & Lynne


Up to the minute, and on the spot feedback! Excellent stuff, as that is what folks need.

Thank you Paul & Lynne, even though we are not headed that way ourselves.................................................................just yet. :wink:

Cheers,

Jock


----------



## TickTok

zulurita said:


> I have just sent an email as I would also like to go to Portugal in December. This is really putting me off.
> 
> I also did one to the Lisbon tourist office but I haven't had a reply.


Hi all,

We are off to Portugal next month so I am a bit concerned about these tolls. I spoke to my Brother in law and a portuguese friend who both live in the Algarve this morning and neither had heard a thing about it, they rang the tourist office in Lisbon who didn't know much more but did say that although police were using it as an excuse to stop people they were not fining them, they also gave the address of a web site with a little more information.

http://www.estradas.pt/portagensestrangeiros

I will see if brother in law can find out what is a light or heavy vehicle and if he does will post it.

Nothing to do with the tolls but a handy site for anyone daft enough to want to drive in Lisbon (I have!) this shows the road works and traffic cameras. After the mess they have made of this toll thingy I expect the road works are for 1998 :lol:

http://www.estradas.pt/mapa


----------



## Grizzly

TickTok said:


> After the mess they have made of this toll thingy I expect the road works are for 1998 :lol:


OT I know but I think it gives an insight into how efficiently this road tolling business has been organised.

While we were in Portugual in January there was a presidential election. Before this many voters had been issued with electronically chipped identity cards to enable them to vote. When they got to the poll they discovered that the cards had not been registered and so they were unable to vote.

Our source for this information was resigned, as it seems were many of the would-be voters. We certainly saw no massive fuss in the papers as I'm sure there would have been had something similar happened here.

G


----------



## TickTok

Grizzly said:


> TickTok said:
> 
> 
> 
> While we were in Portugual in January there was a presidential election. Before this many voters had been issued with electronically chipped identity cards to enable them to vote. When they got to the poll they discovered that the cards had not been registered and so they were unable to vote.
> 
> The whole red tape thing is very disorganized, I once asked how much they paid for road tax as I had noticed that two out of three had not got any I was told it was very cheap, at the time about £15 but you had to bribe the post office twice as much to keep you one as not enough were printed !!! :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## TickTok

*A bit more info, mostly useless and did not answer the question Namely how to buy the required device.*

I recently mailed (amongst others) the Portuguese tourist office in Lisbon and have just got a reply :-

Thank you for your contact.
Regarding the toll system, please visit this link:

http://www.brisa.pt/PresentationLayer/textos00.aspx?menuid=118&exmenuid=108

kind regards,

Helena Ribeiro
Promoção - Visitors Bureau
Turismo de Lisboa
Rua do Arsenal, 23
1100-038 Lisboa

Tel. +351 210 312 733

Fax: +351 210 312 899

www.visitlisboa.com

The website has a button up the top to get an 'Engrish' version but for all the use it is Portuguese is just as good!


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi.

I would be happy paying in cash or with my card if there isn't a manned toll booth, just as long as I can get where I am going.

Is it green lane or nothing?..


----------



## machilly

3 years ago we came up through the tolls, I presented my Visa card, but they declined, as they could only take €50 euros, we offered the other €17 in cash,.
As we had got our cash and passport stolen fom a locked car we only had a limited amount left so I was not going to part with it, the guy in the booth eventually took all my details Reg No, Passport No, address and said Factura, which as far as I was aware meant they would bill me, still never heard nothing from them.......so I would not worry too much if they arew logging your reg, you will probably never hear from them....as for Portugal, I will take Spain anytime.

regards


----------



## TickTok

machilly said:


> 3 years ago we came up through the tolls, I presented my Visa card, but they declined, as they could only take €50 euros, we offered the other €17 in cash,.
> As we had got our cash and passport stolen fom a locked car we only had a limited amount left so I was not going to part with it, the guy in the booth eventually took all my details Reg No, Passport No, address and said Factura, which as far as I was aware meant they would bill me, still never heard nothing from them.......so I would not worry too much if they arew logging your reg, you will probably never hear from them....as for Portugal, I will take Spain anytime.
> 
> regards


Hi,

At any of the manned tolls in Portugal and that is still most of them if you ask they will take details and send an invoice, you then have I think 8 days to pay or a fine.

A couple of years ago I was in a car with very little money and travelled from the South to the Northern border like this and have never received an invoice. On my previous post there is a page that confirms this, along with a list the credit cards that you can pay with, none of which I have ever heard of.

Ray, I woudn't worry to much as far as I know there are only a few auto tolls in the far north and the rest are still manned, so unless you are going to that area.............


----------



## Grizzly

TickTok said:


> Ray, I woudn't worry to much as far as I know the auto tolls are only a few new one's in the far north ..


According to the map we were given in January (by another Brit as they had run out at Via Verde and Post Offices) the electronic tolls are now active from the north as far south as Porto. South of Porto they are not _due _ to become active until mid -April and will then cover all the previous non-tolled motorways in the country.

G


----------



## TickTok

Grizzly said:


> TickTok said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ray, I woudn't worry to much as far as I know the auto tolls are only a few new one's in the far north ..
> 
> 
> 
> According to the map we were given in January (by another Brit as they had run out at Via Verde and Post Offices) the electronic tolls are now active from the north as far south as Porto. South of Porto they are not _due _ to become active until mid -April and will then cover all the previous non-tolled motorways in the country.
> 
> G
Click to expand...

Back again,  Sorry,  I have just read on another forum that from 15th April the A22 but not the E1 will use these tolls.

My brother in law lives less than a mile from the Motorway and when I spoke to him this morning he new nothing about the tolls. I will find out for sure next month as I am down there for a few weeks myself.


----------



## txe4man

just an update on this topic, we are now in Portugal (pouring with rain by the way)
the owner of the site we are on has told us that from 15th April just gone the electronic toll system has been completely abandoned. apparently the EEC declared it illegal. the standard booth type tolls still apply.


----------



## Grizzly

txe4man said:


> the owner of the site we are on has told us that from 15th April just gone the electronic toll system has been completely abandoned.


Hallelujah ! A blow for common sense at last.

Thanks for the info.

F


----------



## PeterandLinda

We understand that a decision about implememtation has been postponed until after the elections in June but that the infrastructure is all in place and ready to go live at any point.
Certainly it is all there but the price boards covered up in the Algarve


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi.

I asked my mate in Portugal about the Green lane being scrapped, he replied.

With his permission as always..

Morning Ray
I left this reply a couple of days to check on local gossip down in Lisbon where I went this weekend. As I mentioned before the government can not organise a **** up in a brewery and this a classic case, with the government fallen and new elections it's a bit up in the air. This is what I know:

•The 'classic' motorways have an automated poll system (Green lane - Via Verde) but these have manual tolls as well. No worries there for you.
•The 'SCUTS' motorways (These were free) but now are being charged. These have an automated 'Portico' that reads the license plate and/or use the Via Verde system (where the charge is deducted from the bank account).
Currently there are only a few motorways that you need to pay and for the joy of North/South divide they are currently only around the city of Porto.
However the plan was that the remaining around the country were to be charged by 15th April. It was not the case but apparently will be 15th May now.
For joy the news yesterday is that 6 cabins which lie by the porticos with all the electronics have been broken into and burnt with rubber tyres.
•Now which are 'normal' motorways and which are 'scut'. For the outsider there is no way to know before hand. I can try to list them for you but will also see if there is a site.
•Currently I would say ignore the damn SCUT motorways and drive normally like 300,000 Spanish cars do every month and don't bother to pay. If you want to be legal (may be better to play safe there is a way to do, I need to look into though as htere have been some recent changes)
•On the 'normal motorways where there is a dedicated Via verde lane (Green lane) don't go through those, use the toll booths. These motorways are run privatly and more efficient than the SCUTS. I'll try to take a couple of pics for you to see the difference, it's very clear.

Now, are you driving via France are taking the ferry to Santander / Bilbão? Depending on the speed and urgency to get down south I can give recommendations on scenic routes (but not cattle lanes) where the roads are good but avoid mostly motorways. This is in Spain mainly - just to try to make a more enjoyable drive. I take it you won't relly on SAT NAv and have a map with you, SAT NAVs are good for company but I would rely on a map before a Sat Nav. I tend to use Michellin. I don't want to sound that I'm telling you how to suck eggs as you have 1000 times more experience than me but sometimes the obvious need saying, especially with a camper van to avoid cattle lanes. Not far where you staying the sat nav took me on a scenic 20km dirt road which my 4x4 just made it!

Anyway, I'll try to get more news and find the relevant sites and keep you in touch.

best regards

Chris


----------



## funkyronster

*i didnt pay......*

I know there have been some recent developments, but the 2 summers I was in Portugal, 09 and 08, I was told by locals and travellers not to bother, so I didn't!! The number plate recognition systems don't track foreign reg's.

I don't want to sound dishonest, because basically I am not, but politically, all those lovely roads in Europe have been paid for by the EU with our taxes, so my conscience is reasonably clear.

I did several trips, and there was no comeback.

The cheeky thing to do is to pick up a ticket when you start, then go through the Via Verde by mistake, preferably behind an artic....oops mistake sorry.....

But to be honest I didn't like the feeling, so I just paid up for subsequent trips.

I always pay now, but lots of folk don't.......


----------



## 113016

We are in Portugal at the moment and as we approached Porto from the north we did see a sign stating a few euros and camera,s on overhead gantries. Luckily we only did a very small section!
We proceeded to Torreira on non toll roads near to Aveiro and I asked in the Tourist office.
They knew little except that they could pay in the next door post office but we can not!
They made a few phone calls for me but I could not get definate answers except that the system is now up and running and I can expect a fine anthough they did say that the fine is only a little over the orogional amount!
I must admit that if they don't sort this out we will not be returning as not worth the worry!
I even asked for the web site and even the tourist office could not find it!
However we have spoken to Germans, Dutch and French and they don't know anything about it and did not even know it was in the pipeline.
They did tell me that it now includes roads south of Oporto and including the road to Guarda and Burgos!


----------



## 113016

I did mention the other day on another thread that I found a GPL fill up point that is not in the vicarious guide.
It is on the north bound side of the N109 about one and a half miles north of the junction with the N327
This is on the thin bit of land north west of Aveiro


----------



## txe4man

hi Grath,
i don't think you need worry about a fine, we have just come out the south of portugal after spending 7 weeks there, we were assured that the auto toll system has been abandoned for the time being after being declared illegal by the eu.
we also saw the uncovered signs but most have now been recovered with plastic sheets.the people that told us were dutch camp site owners and they were very well informed because it affected them as well.
when it does eventually come in it will be expensive for motorhomes the signs we saw indicated 40 eurocents per kilometer!
regarding LPG we found most of the GALP service stations on motorways sold it.


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## 113016

txe4man said:


> hi Grath,
> i don't think you need worry about a fine, we have just come out the south of portugal after spending 7 weeks there, we were assured that the auto toll system has been abandoned for the time being after being declared illegal by the eu.
> we also saw the uncovered signs but most have now been recovered with plastic sheets.the people that told us were dutch camp site owners and they were very well informed because it affected them as well.
> when it does eventually come in it will be expensive for motorhomes the signs we saw indicated 40 eurocents per kilometer!
> regarding LPG we found most of the GALP service stations on motorways sold it.


Hi txe4man.
We are still here in Portugal and come down from the north via non toll roads and we are now on the coast just north of Lisboa.
We also have seen a few cameras not covered up and the signs stating a charge.
I went into a tourist office and the very kind lady tried to find out for me,and after a few telephone calls she said that it was now operational.
A couple of days later I was talking to a Portuguese HGV driver and he told me there is no charge so I am still non the wiser!
I think that no person really knows what is going on, but it does put a damper on things as you cannot be certain!
I do hope that you are right and that they have been abandoned, luckily we have only passed through one and that was just as entering Porto from the north, however we have seen them much further south in the Averio area.
Fingers crossed


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## 113016

Update.
I have just this minute been talking to a couple of Portugese Police officers and a lady who interprated very well and they have told me that since the change of government they are now operational.
Still no wiser as some say one thing and others say opposite!


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## Grizzly

My goodness ! Someone in authority Portugual should be told that this is so counter-productive when it comes to attracting tourists - who are, after all, part of their economy ! I feel an e-mail coming on....

Thanks for all your input and I hope the rest of your trip goes well.

G


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## Grizzly

Grizzly said:


> I feel an e-mail coming on....
> G


So I went to Google to find the web address of the Portuguese embassy in London and, to my surprise, could not find any such website or any means of contacting them other than a visit.

Then I found this:

http://www.portuguese-embassy.org.uk/

Hmmm! Don't think I'll waste a stamp on them so it will have to be Lisbon.

G


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

What gets me in this whole shenanigans is the Portuguese whether HGV drivers or visitors coming over to the UK can quite cheerfully drive anywhere they please without any costs, even though we as tax payers pay for all the roads.. 
The HGV drivers have double fuel tanks and fill up before they get to the UK with cheaper fuel on the continent so are not even contributing to using the roads through fuel duty buying fuel over here.

Yet we are being penalised through out the continent having to pay for tolls, and with the barmy Portuguese not even knowing what is going on and penalising visitors to their country, even though we are desperately trying to be legal and pay any tolls due, but cant, not through any fault of our own but of "their" making..

Absolutely bonkers!..

It could be the plot for the next "Carry On" film.. :roll:


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## 113016

I know what you are saying, I wouldn't mind paying the odd toll but the not knowing if you are going to be on one of these new automated toll roads and not been able to then pay and then get a fine is what is most annoyAnd it's bloody hard work trying to avoid them without the bone shaker roads


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## Bazzapodd

We returned from Portugal in mid April, and as we left our site just outside Lagos (Turis Campo - can highly recommend), they were just finishing off the steelwork prior to the cameras being fitted along that stretch of motorway going back into Spain. There seemed to be one every couple of miles. When we were there you where supposed to be able to buy them locally at post offices, petrol stations etc. but we were on our way home before they were activated. Apparently it is only new motorways that are affected. As I understand it existing manned tolls continue as normal - but I could be wrong!!


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