# Are we alone out there?



## timotei

For hundreds of years, if not thousands, mankind has searched for the answer to this question.

With so many millions of galaxies, billions of stars, all the planets caught in their gravitational fields ........................................................................

what I actually want to know is am I alone out there?

Just wondering how many other members enjoy gazing out into the wonders of the universe, maybe through a telescope, perhaps through binoculars, or just with naked eye while sitting outside the MH with a glass of fine wine.......

Wondered whether there was enough interest to arrange a get together?

I'm no expert, but find myself increasingly intrigued by the heavens, to the point where I spoilt myself and bought a 6inch telescope for my 40th birthday in may. As telescopes go, it's nothing spectaular, and I am sure there will be other members with bigger, better etc... but some of the most memorable moments of my life (excluding family, friends etc) have been spent in the garden gazing through it to distant stars, galaxies, nebulae etc.....

I'm wondering whether, if there are other members with telescopes, binoculars, or just an interest, we could arrange a meet, share equipment, wine, knowledge, wine, interest, wine and friendship, while gazing skywards.

Is there anyone out there?

Timotei


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## Bernies

No Timotei..you are not alone!

Bernie got a telescope for his 50th birthday 2 years ago and apart from a few fantastic views of the moon while we were in France he hasn't really had the chance to use it - mainly because it's now in storage - but also because of the persistent cloud cover in the north of Scotland.

However, he is thinking of getting it out again for our summer trip which will culminate at the Global rally.

He gave me permission to write this - he'd like to get together with some other newbie stargazers! (he's busy watching a movie just now)

:roll:


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## DABurleigh

"what I actually want to know is am I alone out there?"

Yes, and no, or maybe 

In terms of your interest, no, you are not alone, though I don't have a telescope. Astrophysics was my favourite module at Uni, however.

In terms of whether mankind is alone (extraterrestrial life), well I am comforted by Sagan - if we are alone, just think how amazing that is. And if we are NOT alone, just think how equally amazing that is 

If you haven't seen this old film, it is a real treat. Before the internet provided such things I would make a point of watching it every time I visited the Washington National Aerospace Museum, where it was showing next to the Apollo lunar module:





40 zeroes contains quite a lot, really 

Dave


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## Hezbez

MHF members the forterotwins are fully fledged stargazers.

Lawrence treated us to a 'sky at night' viewing through his big fancy telescope on the recent German meet.

Very civilised it was, viewing Saturn's Rings whilst quaffing a glass of red.


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## Alfa_Scud

Hezbez said:


> Very civilised it was, viewing Saturn's Rings whilst quaffing a glass of red.


Is that a Euphemism 8O :lol: :lol:

I'm not a stargazer, nor do I have a telescope. But it does fascinate me when I see programs on space etc.

Are we alone?? I very much doubt it. 
In the world of infinity, I reckon the chances of there just being a few billion people about infinitesimally small. No facts whatsoever to base that statement on, but my mind isn't big or clever enough to comprehend the universe we live in!  .


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I do not have any light polution on the eastern side of our bungalow.
I sometimes sit with a glass in hand looking at the sky.
It is amazing after a short time, when yours eyes get acustomed to the real dark how many more stars you can see. Aircraft, the international space station and shooting stars are all visible.

I sometimes wonder who is looking back at me.
After all we are only here by a freak of nature, or is there a superior force in control?

Dave p


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## gromett

Alfa_Scud said:


> Are we alone?? I very much doubt it.
> In the world of infinity, I reckon the chances of there just being a few billion people about infinitesimally small. No facts whatsoever to base that statement on, but my mind isn't big or clever enough to comprehend the universe we live in!  .


I always find this view very interesting and one that I held for a number of years.

There is believed to be a religious gene that predisposes the people with it to religious views. The debate at the moment is that religious people are "outbreeding" (scientific term not derogatory).

The relationship between the number of children and education can be shown across many countries and cultures as can the relationship between education and religious belief. So the outbreeding theory does seem to hold some water.

What interests me is, do people with this gene that are educated and secular tend to believe *more strongly* in the presence of other lifeforms out there. ie, does this gene pre-dispose them to believe that we cannot be alone and that there must be more than just us.

I know that there is a full mix of views regarding life on other planets and none of them have any scientific evidence either way. However my question would be, Is the proportion of secular people who believe in other planets having life greater amongst those with these genes or is the proportion roughly the same in secular people who don't have this gene?

Just one of the many totally useless things I ponder now and again 
:lol:

Karl


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## Westbay

Very interesting points, Mr Grommet.

One thing most folk don't factor in is the distances involved. If there is an advanced civilization 'somewhere out there' we will probably never know. If it takes the light umpteen million light years to get here from their local star, they ain't going to get here any quicker. (Unless they've developed some sort of quantum entanglement drive.) :lol: 8O :lol:

If anyone is listening in for radio signals *from* earth - first transmitted about 100 years ago - they would need to be quite close: the outward going signals would now only be reaching them if they were approx a hundred light years away. A stone's throw.

Then there's the star that every one's wait to see explode - top corner of Orion. It's about 640 light years away, so may be it in fact it isn't even there any more - may be it went bang 639 years ago and this year we'll finally get the message.


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## badger

This is erie, only the other day I was sitting contempating my lot and wondering....."what shall I do today then" when a thought struck me, it was jenny "asking me to move my feet out of the way of the vaccuum"...........I wonder if I could get one of those stargazer type telecopes for about 50 Bob?
I quite fancy getting a closer look. My old man was into stargazing, though he didn't have a telescope either.


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## StephandJohn

That recent TV programme with Brian Cox was fascinating. I was going to get a planisphere but forgot so thanks for the reminder.


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## sallytrafic

Two of us early birds are off to an Astronomy exhibition in Kensington on Friday to perhaps join you in owning telescopes.

Astrofest

We are already members of the stargazers lounge forum.

http://stargazerslounge.com/


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## Briarose

Hi just as a matter of interest to you all, Kellingheath in north Nofolk have special stargazers events every year...........google it.

We caught the tail end of their week in Sept 2009. We didn't know that it had been on so we were quite shocked on arrival to find all the toilet block windows etc boarded up to prevent artificial lights etc. I was amazed how many people were on the site with huge telescopes etc.

We wanted to go back to Kellingheath last Sept, but that particular week the stargazers had booked the whole touring site.


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## sallytrafic

I think there are three books (of those that I own) that shed light on the subject

Carl Sagan's 'Comos' includes the quote that DABs mentioned

Jacob Bronowski's 'The Ascent of Man' considers the chemistry and physics needed to form life as we know it.

Bill Bryson's 'A short History of Nearly Everything' covers the size aspect of the universe and the possibility of life elsewhere and I think it draws heavily from Cosmos but the Notes and Bibliography at the back reveal a wealth of other research. 

I like this quote about radio telescopes that since they have been collecting (1951) the total amount of energy collected from outside the solar system is "less than the energy of a single snowflake striking the ground" Sagan in Cosmos quoted by Bryson

That was written by Sagan in 1980 or so, so it might be up to two snowflakes by now


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## locovan

Please dont forget http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html

Chariots of the Gods


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## sallytrafic

locovan said:


> Please dont forget http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html
> 
> Chariots of the Gods


You can't be serious :bazooka:

here am I quoting Sagan and you link to that charlatan


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## locovan

Thats your opinion Frank :grab:


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## DABurleigh

Frank,

Well I tried, gently, with our Mave at Shepton over Erik, but yes, she did come across as enthralled as my elder brother was when the book came out.

The Universe and our existence are mysterious and we are naturally curious about them, but in a spectrum of hypotheses awaiting test by evidence, I'd prefer to go for the straightforward ones than the emotional more fanciful ones.

If Physics taught me one thing it is that Nature, deep down, likes symmetry and simplicity. Our Universe is quite elegant in those terms.

Dave


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## DABurleigh

Steph said:


> That recent TV programme with Brian Cox was fascinating. I was going to get a planisphere but forgot so thanks for the reminder.


An Android phone running Google Skymap is much more fun!
Demoed at various MHF rallies last year 

Dave


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## sallytrafic

locovan said:


> Thats your opinion Frank :grab:


Well I have read Chariots (my late wife owned it) have you read Sagan?


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## locovan

sallytrafic said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats your opinion Frank :grab:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have read Chariots (my late wife owned it) have you read Sagan?
Click to expand...

Of coarse-- we have read most books on the subject and Ray has a Telescope and has a passion for Space I even have Nasa, NSF, Astroid Watch, NAT geo society, Mike Massiminio and Astrbiology on my Twitter
I go to Planetarium's and we watch the night Sky.
We have seen UFO's and the Space Station.
Sorry Frank we are Avid Space watchers and my mind is open to everything :wink: 
I even loved ET and Encounters of the third kind and all the Space films made, right from Dan dare on the radio :lol: :lol:


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## TheHewsonFamily

My own thoughts on the subject are that there is undoutably life elsewhere in the 'finite' universe; however, the chances of that life having the necessary environment to develop into intelligence life, that's a different matter.

In order for us to ever discover intelligent beings, either they would have to have developed the technologies to travel or contact us over the vast distances already mentioned or we would have to be able to detect their presence.

Neither of these are beyond the realm of possibility given the age of the universe, but the circumstances for advanced civilisations to develop are probably very, very, very rare. 

We are probably the exception rather than the rule, given that the prominence of mammals on this planet came about by pure accident following a catastrophic event that wiped out the dominating species. 

Consider that the dinosaurs existed on the earth for millions of years, whereas humans have been around for only a fraction of this time can both be cause for optimism and pessimism. On the one hand it shows that a species that has evolved in perfect balance with its environment may not need to develop higher intelligence to survive, i.e. the dinosaurs; whereas, humans have managed to evolve into a highly advanced civilisation (in comparison) in a relatively short space of time.


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## locovan

I have just been sent this Ok who did it!!!
http://nuclearmissile.net/larry-king-ufos-shut-down-nuclear-weapons-part-4_316.htm


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## locovan

And dont forget this --is this how we evolved

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12303651


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## ramblingon

I look at the moon sometimes through a dumpy level first class image obtained. 
On a clear warm summers night I like nothing more than looking at the sky with rum laced cocoa listening to ......... 



 What a voice that man had....... 

And all credit to Jeff Wayne and his brilliant music. :wink:


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## Spacerunner

The problem is the time factor.

A mllion earth years is just a blink of an eye in universe time.

So any other civilisation would most probably be millions of years more primitive or advanced than ours.
If more primitive then still at the amoeba stage or if more advanced then we are still in the amoeba stage in relation another civilisation.

So, although an advanced life form may be aware of us, they are at a loss of how to communicate with blobs of jelly (us).


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## ramblingon

Speak for yourself! :lol:


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## Sprinta

Is there intelligent life on Earth? :lol: 


there's plenty of alien life forms judging by the rabble around these days


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## TheHewsonFamily

A famous philisopher once wrote:

"The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

:lol:


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