# what is it with the ducato??



## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

Would soomeone please explain to me what i am missing here?

We were at the NEC yesterday and atleast 75% of the vans there had the doomed fiat ducato sitting underneath, i am sure this will touch with a lot of you because there is a lot of ducato owners here.

Seems to me the motorhome industry has a long love affair with the ducato, why of all the vans do they choose the fiat?? 

We have had the transit van in this country for over 40 years and every builder would swear by them, i have had a few myself, great vans, solid reliable work horse. Every courier or anyone that wants a van for motorway miles gets a sprinter/vw, known to do a million miles if properly looked after.

What i want to know is why on earth do the motorhome makers choose the ducato?(and the public for buying them when there is other options) in commercial vehicle form they omly account for a very small percentage of the vans on the road.

I was shocked to see people doing deals on these van yesterday when only tens of yards away there was a que of people waitin at fiats stand to register complaints, why on earth are these people still buying them with all the faults they have?? they are flooding the market with sub-standard vans which are going to deprieciate like a lead balloon, thets if you can get rid of it, i know i wouldnt buy one.

well done to autocruise for having a fleet of sprinters at the show, seems the europeans like the transit, the germans have their sprinter and we are still buying the ducato, i feel for the paople who were the first to buy the doomed ducato but for the people who are still buying them i have no sympathy when thier gearbox goes pearshaped a few months down the line.

Most fo this country drive german or american cars so why would you want to put 50k of your hard earned anywhere near something you really buy in car form?

its gotta be the merc fo me with the transit as second choice, ok they cost more but that will reflect in resale values and i am sure it is worth the peace of mind that you are getting a quality product.

Will someone please tell me why.


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## kennyboy (Oct 25, 2005)

I could have written this myself! I fully agree with you. Being a light commercial vehicles dealer I hate Fiat Ducatos (Citroen and Peugeot as well, same vans) with a passion.
The only reason I can think that the motorhome manufacturers use the Ducato is that they are cr...p sorry cheap.  
Ken


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

kennyboy said:


> I could have written this myself! I fully agree with you. Being a light commercial vehicles dealer I hate Fiat Ducatos (Citroen and Peugeot as well, same vans) with a passion.
> The only reason I can think that the motorhome manufacturers use the Ducato is that they are cr...p sorry cheap.
> Ken


Having had a Hymer on a Ford and now a Chausson on the Ducato.

Its a no brainer......Ducato every time


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Ducato*

Having driven a motorhome on a Renault and also a Ford, then in my opinion the Multijet wins hands down.

I doubt many could catch me on the four lane stretch of the M62 from Rochdale to the A672. The M'Jet goes like the clappers.

Russell


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

ok so you guys have got ok gearboxes, have you ever driven a sprinter?? proper van


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## kennyboy (Oct 25, 2005)

Obviously our paths have not met Russell, as with my V6 turbo diesel 518 Merc I would beat you hands down!
Still it is good that you love your Fiat   

Ken


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## motorhomeviews (Jan 9, 2008)

*Ducato*

Well don't really know about the Merc, probably good quality and overated and expensive because it's German.
My ducato is an excellent comfortable piece of engineering. Taking away the issues of the Clutch reverse vibration and the famous scuttle issue, when these two items have been rectified the vehicle will surely be one of the best units available for the motorhome industry.
The vehicle ride is very comfortable and quiet, has ample power, holds the road well and returns over 35 mpg, 40 mpg touring france and Spain.


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## kennyboy (Oct 25, 2005)

Well good for you Treveden as it does sound fantastic mpg!
Ken


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

treveden it really does amaze me that fiat still has loyal people like you after all the problems with thier current van. i think the motorhome industry should have a bit more choice


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

I think the obvious answer, apart from price, is that they are front wheel drive, and supply chassis cab/cowl for conversion using an alko rear chassis. This gives a low rear platform height and increases the underfloor storage options for the body builder.

Looking at the VOSA recalls database the other day, there are the same number of recalls for ducatos as sprinters over the last two years.

There are a couple of posts on here just now about sprinter problems, one an oil consumption issu, one about start error codes, so they are not immune from problems.

I've got a punto, cost £6000 new, two year warranty (unused). It's done 26000 miles in 2 years and i'm pretty sure it's had an oil change in that time! My mate has an 'A' class merc that was £18,000 new, and he bought it at 5 years old when it cost more than my new punto. Who is right? dunno. 

I'm not a 'fan' of fiats, but they are what they are, and mine (Punto and X244 Duscato) have been fine so far.

Lots of us can't afford the huge premium for a merc based van, even if it didn't have other compromises that I couldn't accept.

David


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

i suppose it is pretty ad timing on my part for this post, with there being 2 other posts about dodgy sprinters right know :roll: but that aside, how are people buying in confidence when they have no cure for the list of problems


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## tresrikay (Nov 21, 2006)

The Industry uses Fiats for only one reason and that is because they are the cheapest base vehicle and the converter is not invoiced untill the M/H is built.
The reason they all went to Renaults and Fords in 05/06 was because they feared a bunch of failures and recalls and problems with the new Ducato.


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

the thing about the sprinter is that until recently they used the well proven 5 cyl block and just changed the head to update. in most cases the sprinter base was used for an a class so was really engine and chassis, both well proven. 

b16duv n&b's don't tend to be the cheapest 'vans either, even on a fiat :lol: 

simon


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Citroennut,
"b16duv n&b's don't tend to be the cheapest 'vans either, even on a fiat 

simon"

My finance company accepts lemonade bottles as payment every month, so it's not a problem! lol. 

Niesmann's are no longer available on a mercedes chassis apart from the Clou which starts at 299,000 euro. And it's better on the MAN chassis!

B16duv


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## chrisndeb (Feb 7, 2007)

Our Kontikki is a 2.5TDI Fiat 30000mile on the clock, our first motorhome (not the only van ive driven fords,VWs etc) We are very impressed with the mpg,power, noise ,comfort its just a great easy drive all round.Chris


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## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

b16duv said:


> Lots of us can't afford the huge premium for a merc based van,


nail and head!

i've asked this to a few of the manufacturers when i was looking for my van, being a vw man i'd rather have a vw than anything else.

the response is that to use a VW as a base model would add around £10 to the price of conversion that's before the manufacturer adds their proffit.

if you go to a show room and look at two vans that have exactly the same motorhome built on them, all the same features spec and furnishings but one is a vw at £50K and the other is a fiat £40k, most folk would go for the fiat, even bearing in mind that a vw would keep the additional value or a large portion of it for resale value, only a few people would pay the extra!


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

If the most popular chassis for motorhomes were either Ford or Mercedes then this forum would be filled with unhappy owners of those vehicles. You can't get away from the fact that both Ford and Merc have had more recalls than the Fiat.
Gerry


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

the FIAT fight back continues!!

I know a company that uses ducato box vans with alko tag axle chassis for delivering furniture. They're up to 300,000 miles now and giving good service.

I test drove an 866 euramobil on a sprinter chassis and it had the wrong diff fitted. It went like stink off the line but hit the red line at 70 (and no, it didn't have a speed limiter fitted).


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## trigrem (May 1, 2005)

I think the important point in relation to Ducato is in Trevedens post.
"When these two issues have been resolved"
As Fiat would not recognize there was a fau,t until forced, how will we know when its been resolved, will they give a chassis reference number so that Joe public can make sure of what he is spending hard earned cash on.
I am sorry for all Ducato owners who have had problems but have not registered the facts with Fiat, Because they will certainly not have a general recall.
I have been satisfied with previous Ducato and recognise that the new version has a better driving position and range of better engines but until the known problems have been resolved then I am not buying, unless I find a suitable layout on another base vehicle, but as the original post pointed out Fiat are the major base vehicles.


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## 112854 (May 31, 2008)

My job consist of nothing but working on LCVs as a auto electrician which i have done for over twenty years,and my stand on this is you will tend to find most these base vehicles will last well as campers as they do no work at all compared to what they are designed for.
The New Transit and Sprinter has had a few electrical problems but its no more than that and they are quickly being resolved.
But if you want to see the difference between a good van and a bad van take a look at 90% of courier vans they are all sprinters and vw lt35 despite the fact the are the dearest vans on the road. I regular work on these vans with over 400,000 miles on them i have a friend that has a VW LT that has done 520,000 miles and has only had a clutch. There is no way you will do this in any italian van.
Ducatos are bad byt dependable as a motorhome that will be lucky if it does 100,00 miles in its lifetime,but the old ones are awful to drive with harsh engines, lots of wind noise ,pedals mms apart and poor driving position)and i really do not understand why people love them so much .maybe it is because they have no choice. but by far the worst van on the road are iveco dailys we work on them when they are three months old and the dashboards are lit up like christmas trees with warning lights i know a local company who runs a fleet of 12 of them and he always has at least two at the dealership.
But what i find strange in my job is peoples attitude to there vehicles,if they drive a german van they get very upset when they breakdown and complain to the max as they don't expect it,but if they drive a italian van you will attend one thats broke down and the customer will be totally unphased almost like he is expecting it to breakdown.
Also next time you are in Italy look at the motorhomes they drive ,mostly Transits and Sprinters?do they know something we don't know.
My Motor home yep you guessed it a Karmann Missouri based on a VW LT in my opinion and lots of others the most dependable van on the road ,great to drive ,smooth and powerful return 28mpg at 70mph and best of all they just do not go wrong ever , ask your local courier i am sure he will vouch for me.


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

my point entirely mazz,

i reckon the italians are seeing us a easy touch, sending us thier rubbish whilst building thier own vans on solid reliable bases.

How many builders and curriers drive fiats? one in a million

come on britain its about time our motorhome manufactures started giving us proper vans to drive


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## solentviews (May 9, 2005)

I cannot comment on the new Fiat, however, my 14 year old Kontiki on a Ducato base vehicle has done nearly 105,000 miles has used no oil outside services in the 6 years I have owned it and runs like a dream. On a recent trip to Scotland I returned 31.3 mpg. All round I am a very happy Fiat owner and the more horror stories I read of newer van makes me more content with my older one.
Ian


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

paulkenny9 said:


> i reckon the italians are seeing us a easy touch, sending us thier rubbish n
> 
> come on britain its about time our motorhome manufactures started giving us proper vans to drive


Wish they would send me one of their rubbish ferraris!

Isn't it the case that the british motorhome manufacturers are choosing to build on the fiat platform? (as are the continentals)

So, sprinters are capable of 1,000,000 miles and this makes them better...
thus a fully winterised motorhome is the only choice because it can be used all year round in very cold weather?

But, I hear the cry, we don't use our vans in very cold weather, so they don't need to be winterised.

I won't need to do 1,000,000 miles in my ducato.........

It's all about choice, trade-offs and long term cost. If we all had the same, how boring would it be?

(I don't want to be controversial, I just can't help it. There is, apparently, no cure!)

B16duv


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

When I ordered my Frankia last year I had the option of a Fiat or Sprinter as a base vehicle - the Sprinters were not that much dearer than the Fiats

following examples taken from Frankia's 2007 UK retail price list:-

the cheapest low profile 
T640 Fiat £45,527
T6400 MB £46,490

& the dearest A class
I840 Fiat £76.063
I8400 MB £78,229

this is only a very rough guide but I was happy to pay this extra premium to get a RWD


PS previously I had two Fiat Ducato's which kept getting stuck on wet grass & I drive a Fiat Punto 1.2 Multijet diesel as my commuting work car on long motorway commutes & think its a brilliant little car


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

hi b16duv

with most vans built on the fiat it is already gettin boring, the builders onyl do it cos the public buy them,

my main gripe was why are people still buying them when they know the gearboxes are duff?

as people pointed out the merc and ford have had more recalls but atleast they are doing something about thier mistakes, it would upset me to know i had just bought a nice machine and the manufacturers wont even recognise a problem

and for the record i dont like farraris either


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

paulkenny9 said:


> my main gripe was why are people still buying them when they know the gearboxes are duff?


I think I detect axes being ground here.

My gearbox isn't duff. Period (or, full stop if you like). It's smooth, quiet, changes gear easily, and took us comfortably and reliably for 2,000 miles to and from Italy this summer.

Yes, they have / have had an issue with the scuttle. Yes, it judders _sometimes_. And *YES*, the apparent attitude of Fiat is annoying. But it's a great van to drive, it's a great base vehicle for my motorhome. Knowing what I know, would I buy a Fiat now? Definitely, yes.

And no, I'm not stupid, I'm not in the employ of Fiat, and I do understand the issues. My bet is that the resale values of our vans won't be affected one jot. Two years from now, the average motorhome buyer will look at the fittings, the furniture, and upholstery. They'll ask: "didn't I hear about some problems with the gearbox?" and the dealer will say: "yes, they did have some teething problems, but they're all fixed now." And the van will be sold.

I'm quite happy to read considered opinion on the Fiat problems, but I think there are some sweeping generalisations here.

Gerald


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

The chassis has been built to make it easier to construct a motorhome body upon. Some manufacturers have geared up their workshops especially for it. In addition it is alleged that FIAT have offered 'sweetener' to manufacturers.


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## 112854 (May 31, 2008)

you have all got the same base vehicles ,thats the point 
I cant knock the old ducato for reliability ,the old italian vans are simple and don't go to wrong that often their just not very dignified at what they do.
but the newer stuff has been very poor this is because they are making them complicated ,and italian complicated vehicles don't mix well ,fiat panda and puntos simple and dependable but the bigger fiats and alfas are terrible vehicles which seem to disappear off the road at 3 years of age due to uncurable problems.
we will have to give the new ducato a chance as all new vehicles have teething problems which can easily last up to two years,at least they drive well and from working on them the are better put together than the old ones,heavier gauge steel is used in there construction and the dashboards can now be removed and replaced without the aid of super glue ,but what they will never be is a vehicle that can do 200,000 miles and still have precise steering tight gearchanges and taught engines,my VW T5 work vehicle did not stop using oil until it did 80,000 miles as this is how long it takes the engine to bed in,its now on 140,000 miles uses no oil and has nothing done to it apart from a new turbo pipe which cost £46,i get into a brand new T5 and drive it and it feels no different to mine .This is what you pay for in a german vehicle the fact that everything is designed to last as long as possible,the new merc S class has a twenty year anti corrosion guarantee ,my van has a 200,000 mile engine driveline guarantee these are promises of confidence,I am sure that if many of you guys or girls did what i did and seen what i see every day you would form a similar opinion to me,ill remain open on the new ducato but so far its not proving to be a good LCV and is struggling to compete with the sprinter ,crafter range which lets face it have always been benchmark vans.
I dont see it a exuse to say that i am not going to do lots of miles in my vehicle so it does not matter that its not as good as other base vehicles but i do understand that all motorhomes have a very easy life compared to LCVs so in theroy they should all be faultless but they are not so why not
Dont forget the Master which is now proving to be a very good vehicle 3.0 aside


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

I don't need a lecture about selection from anyone who has a Lunar!

MB's are all RWD and that can be a problem. Their poor chassis design - (for a m/home) causes the thing to roll on uneven roads or in windy weather. The old Ducato was much better, the new one is in a different world. Autotrail have recently ditched Mercedes as a chassis supplier after many years.

Sprinters are noiser in the cab than new Ducatos. They are certainly no more comfortable. Ducatos have NO engine issues - read this forum for MB engine probs. I recently asked a question on this forum about the incidence of gearbox failures. Apart from Andy Stothart who seems to spend all day demonstrating "judder", I don't know anyone who has had a gearbox failure.

On a personal note I love my X250. The "judder" issue is well overstated in my opinion and I can drive mine in reverse quite happily. I've done about 13,000 miles, will sell it next year and will probably buy another. To be fair I would have no prob with a merc but don't want RWD. If I had to have a Transit or Renault I'd pack up.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> They'll ask: "didn't I hear about some problems with the gearbox?" and the dealer will say: "yes, they did have some teething problems, but they're all fixed now." And the van will be sold.


So you reckon the dealers will continue to lie!!


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Base*

Hello,

Well yes it is I the man with the "start error"!

Click me for the start Error

My opinions

Fiat/Citroen/Puegoet Trio - Steer clear, by Brother along with hundreds of you on here have had no end of problems. In any case Front Wheel Drive. How many Trucks, Coaches or HGV's can you think of with FWD?

Mercedes Sprinter

I think I have just been very unlucky. Otherwise very reliable, well built and look around when you nex on the France - Belgium motorways and see how many there are on the roads.

Mercedes Vito (Previous Generation FWD) - Nightmare
Mercedes Vito - Current RWD Version, believe they had problems with initial V6 Diesel 3.0 Autos.

VW T5

On my second one NEVER EVER AGAIN. Inetend to post a full report on my dealings with VW on here. Eventualy.

FORD Cannot comment, never had the misfortune to own one
IVECO Seem to be a lot of bad reports around.

RENAULT Okay - if you live in France

USA RV's Do not seem to be a lot of problems mentioned on here!?

Vehicle Recalls

I notice some people mentioning the number of recalls. Okay so lets say Fiat and Mercedes have the same number. Its is how the manufacturers deal with such that makes the difference. I understand that the Fiat remedies are a little on the Heath Rosbinson side.

Vehicle Repairs

A lot of the problems with vehicle repairs is that the end Retailer or repairing garage do not pay enough attention, lack knowleage or time to remedy the fault. Remeber, if it is a warranty repair, tehy will have a limited set time to fault find and complete jobs. If you are the paying customer, enough said.

Trev.


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## 112854 (May 31, 2008)

Hi averhamdave you seem proud that your vehicle has done 13,000 trouble free miles ,but this proves my point that vehicle owners in general expect different things from there vehicles,any modern vehicle ,and lots do should cover 100,000 trouble free miles then an only then would a real opinion of the quality of a vehicle be valid, all the X250 are still new and are almost absent from the LCV market.so i have not seen any high milers yet ,
in the meantime myself or anyone here can really endorse the new ducato as it not proven itself yet but already i am working on new shape sprinters with over 150,000 miles on them and they still feel like new and owners generally have lots of praise for them ,they have had some injector issues and turbo failures but these are not design faults these are just genuine parts failures and the only sprinter gearbox issues i have come across are with the sprintshift box which was a terrible piece of engineering hence why it has now been dropped.
When these X250s start to get a bit older we will then see if these vans are any good,but one of the points to this thread is the lack of choice you are offered when buying a motorhome in the uk.I did not want a seville vehicle and ended up with no choice but to buy my motorhome from germany where at least there was a bit more choice over what base vehicle i could buy ,i am planning on keeping my motorhome for ten years as i have a young family and have better things to spend my money on then a new motorhome every year so i went for the vehicle that has proved itself to me best over the years this is not a opinion gained from others this is a opinion gained from working on commercial vehicles for the last 20years in otherwords ,fact.


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## Tailendcharley (Apr 19, 2007)

Well said Maz...I agree with everything you've said...I too have a long history in the automobile industry and I would never never never ever look at a Fiat or any other Italian piece of machinery and that includes Ferraris etc...as the boss of Fiat once went on record as saying...the every day Italian male is more concerned with the shape of the bodywork than the reliability of the engine and transmission...enough said I suppose.......



Regards
  Smithy


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## Mikemoss (Sep 5, 2005)

I know I'm comparing apples with pears, but I have two vehicles of roughly the same age, roughly the same mileage, and kept and driven under roughly the same conditions.

One is rusting away in front of my eyes, and costs a bomb to maintain.
The other has no rust and has needed only routine maintenance at reasonable cost.

And yes, the rust bucket is the Merc - albeit a car, not motorhome chassis.
So I've been surprisingly impressed by the Fiat, particularly as I had a couple of Fiat 500/600 cars in the mid-60s, and boy were they troublesome!


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## 101647 (Nov 3, 2006)

*Fiat Ducato*

Mt Fiat Ducato is five years old now with 20000 miles on the clock. It is a beautiful engine and the gearbox is like a hot knife through butter. OK the reverse judder isn't pleasant but judicious juggling of the clutch and revs gets rid of it.
It starts first time every time even after standing outside for months, it does around 27 mpg and cruises beautifully at 80 on the autoroutes. What more could you want from a vehicle?


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## dcummin (Jan 21, 2008)

I think the new shape ducato look much better than other base vehicles - am I alone here?

I've had a few minor niggles - and two recalls - but been really happy with it.


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

dcummin said:


> I think the new shape ducato look much better than other base vehicles - am I alone here?


Nope - I think it looks good too.

As earlier stated, Fiat make a version of the Ducato especially for the converters which is why it is popular - see the adverts - and that is the non Al-Ko versions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that Ford used to make a special conversion model of the Transit chassis but not any more. I'm probably wrong but it does open out the debate from what has turned into a Fiat/mercedes bashing..........


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Its simple

The Ducato is cheap and huge discounts are available to the converter. Why would they change?

The present Ducato is much better that the earlier models in terms of comfort and driveability (except perhaps in reverse) which is why so many owners are saying its great, their only experience is with older Fiats

What is the question should be is why people are happy to spend £40k-50k when the base has cost the converter what? £15k


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> What is the question should be is why people are happy to spend £40k-50k when the base has cost the converter what? £15k


Not exactly _happy_ to spend, Frank, but you have to pay what you need to to get the motorhome you want.

I have no idea on what the enormous panels cost which make up the coachbuilt section, but I'm always surprised (nay, shocked) at the price of some of the PVCs. People say "they're more difficult to work on", but you can buy an awful lot of man-hours for the prices they're charging.

I'm not saying my coachbuilt (and others) are especially good value either. Some people will spend many thousands more to get what they perceive (and what they're told) is 'quality'. How much more does thicker wood for cabinets and thicker sponge for seat cushions cost?

Gerald


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Gerald/Frank

Saw a price list in FIAT dealer recently - Ducato 18 heavy chassis cowl for alko rear chassis was £22000 plus vat and could only be ordered in pairs.

Obviously the converters are getting a big volume discount on this price.

Just look at the discounts being offered by the dealers off list - mine was about £12k below list - to see who is making the money! They're not selling at a loss.

David


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

It took us 3months to find the vehicle we have now( 2.8JTd Fiat ducato base Autotrial chieftain) I cannot fault engine power mpg and ease to drive. Looked at several fords and decided if you want to end up with a big pile of rust that is the motor to buy. Running our own garage business faults with merc engines such as on the Vito horendously expensive to repair(seized injectors etc and failing to start due to pressure regulator problems. But having said that the early five cylinder brilliant) as far as I'm concerned the 2.8 fiat engine is the best of the best well proven and fiat know how to make engines. 
A very very happy fiat ducato owner Rich


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## TwinTravellers (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi 
We have an Adria Twin Fiat Ducato 2007. Yes, we have had problems with the usual (under the bonnet) which were sorted out with Fiat dealer. We have not had the judder problem yet , maybe because I prefer to go up a hill in forward gear!!!! 
We toured Iceland in the summer and the van was fantastic. The roads there were dreadful, steep hills, hairpin bends, gravel, the van held on to every type of surface we drove on.
At one point we thought the engine would fall out with all the shaking but we only lost 1 screw from 1 of the doors inside.

The Fiat Ducato did a great job for us in Iceland. 
Ros.


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Well i have an 05 Sprinter and i like it for various reasons, its got loads of grunt, its reasonably economical,its got cruise and aircon and its sprintshift which as i,m a gimp i find very relaxing to drive.BUT it rolls terribly on roundabouts ect, its got the most uncomfortable drivers seat i,ve ever sat on (Agutti not Merc) Both doors leak if you fit silverscreens, and before anyone says they need adjusting, if you take the plastic liner out of the stepwell there are factory drain holes in the floor which tells me its a problem thats insurmountable.The heater valve under the bonnett remains live after you switch off which flattens the battery, its been in the Merc agents and the auto electrical shop to no avail.

I,m into motor racing and travel about with my mate Averhamdave in his x250 and i can tell you i,ve had both previous models of Ducato and its far and away superior to its predecessor,its extremly comfortable, it doesnt roll, it steers precisely, its quieter than the sprinter and i,ve reversed it uphill on soft grass with no problem,now i,m not saying that people arent having problems with reverse BUT how many are actually making things worse by their inability to adapt their driving technique.And how many are being consumed by the issue to the extent its all they can see and talk about instead of enjoying what they have got.Its all very well fleet owners rattling on about white vanman not buying Ducatos because they wont do 250,000 miles have you ever seen a camper with lunar mileage.
People are on this forum all the time crying about scuttlegate, why dont they do something about it themselves instead of whining about having to travel miles to dealers and then getting shoddy service, if your not happy about something rectify it instead of moaning about it. Before anybody starts saying its under warranty, so what isnt a few hours spent yourself better than all the grief, lifes too short to be stressed all the time.


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## fatbast (Dec 5, 2007)

i like your attitude, sideways. very straightforward. still not buying a ducato though!


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## lgbzone (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi

I don't think that comparing motorhomes with delivery vehicles is appropriate, a motorhome needs to last a lot longer doing fewer miles where as a delivery van needs to do a huge amount of miles over a far shorter lifespan, a ford engine may be able to do 500,000 miles no problem but the chassis will start to rot after a few years.

don't get me wrong, i don't really like italian vehicles very much but i have a hymer built on a ducato base that is rock solid, i've had it for two years and my father had it for 16 before that, the hymer was registered in 1985 and has done over 205,000km. The only major work that has been done on it in 18 years was when i changed the water pump about 6 months ago. i changed the fan belt because it was drying out and noticed play in the water pump bearing, thought it was best to change it before it failed. I also wax oiled the chassis about 6 months ago and was amazed that the chassis was in near perfect condition.

bottom line is i don't really like fiats but i can't complain at all about the ducato chassis my hymer has.

Lee


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

I have to agree with sideways. I have 2005 316 with sprintshift and has, to date, performed well. According to one survey in a motorhome mag it is one of the cheapest base vehicle to run eg a full front bumper £150!!!
In this survey the Fiat was the most expensive especially when came to changing the timing belt. Tesco, City Link and delivery firms use Mercs to name but a few. At the end of the day its the luck of the draw whether or not you end up with a Friday nighter!!
Richard


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Converters use the Ducato simply because of volume discounts.
For example i recentl traded in my Citroen Dispatch. 5 years old 115 k miles. Serviced by local garage at aprox £100 per service.
Absolutly no problem and was the same van as Peugeot and Fiat derivatives. New lwb 2 ltr Scudo List with options £15800
Peugeot trade was my van plus £12500
Citroen trade was my van plus £10750
Fiat trade was my van plus £8500
Nine years ago similar size Nisssan Cargo was £10750 and imported from Eire.
So Fiat "practically give the base vehcles away" It must be the converters that make a nice wedge in profit, Oh and the retailer too.

Sell a lot cheap with small margins on each.

Slimbo I did not realise the judder affected 5 year old Fiats.
Mine has no problem


dave P


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## ozwhit (Feb 29, 2008)

hi guys ,i have two ducatos ,one as my work van an early 2.8 jtd ,and as a builders van ,is superb ok the body is a wee flimsy ,but the engine ,with now 140k is as sweet as a nut .And i cant fault my 03 2.0 any vans have there faults , im with fiat !


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

oohh i love the mix of wasps/hornets nests and sticks :lol: try telling someone who has driven a couple of alpha romeos and that they shouldn't buy another as they have faults. i've had loads of different citroens, strangely enough :roll: never had any problems - well not serious ones, never been let down, yet they get slagged off as problem cars. i think the biggest problem has been stated previously, some manufacturers take responsibility for faults/problems and fix them, others deny the fact and bury their heads.

simon


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi All

I like my Fiat and I've got the judder, water ingress and the bump on starting.

Must be mad

Best Regards
Broom


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

*what is it with the ducato??* It's a great vehicle, thats what :!:

I have just changed my van having had 18 months excellent motoring on a Ducato X250. I liked it so much that I have replaced it with a Peugeot Boxer this time but a smaller van with a different layout.

I value this forum as there is usually a great deal of informed and expert comment but we now seem to be getting a lot of prejudiced opinion from people who have never owned this vehicle and are never likely likely to.

My previous van was sold off the dealers forecourt within a week so there seems little evidence of second hand values being affected.

So Paulkenny9, I shall not be seeking your sympathy if I should be unfortunate enough to have future problems, nor shall I be telling you how to spend your money.

Meanwhile I shall not be discouraged from enjoying my new van by all this negative comment and I am certainly not alone in this.


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

*x250*

Waggy, bloody well said, could not agree moore


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Campsite Nirvana 

see attached


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

Yes Frank. Let's have some Nirvana


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