# 12v GU10



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I've been approached about becoming a reseller of a new product, a 12v GU10 LED.

I asked a few question of a manufacturer of lamps if there was such a thing and was told that if there was a demand they would make them as they would only need to remove the transformer section at the manufacturing stage, which might make them cheaper too.

There might be a domestic market as they could replace the millions of 12v 50w Halogen lamps currently in the UKs kitchens a simple lamp connector wiring change would be enough in the lamp head to allow fitting a GU10, but what about the MH, I changed from Halogen to LEDs in the Laika but they were very fiddly and sometimes came loose, some could not be changed due to the shape of the lamp holder.

I'd like to hear any opinions please, even if it is a bad idea, I do not intend to make any investment, due to lack of dosh and I'm not a gambler, I would simply sell on a commision basis, but don't want to get involved if there is no meerkat for them


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Apart from the commercial aspects, do you have any data on the bulb, Lumens output etc?

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Not yet Peter, I'm waiting for all that as it's a new one for them too, but would assume it would be a similar to the 230v values.

There seem to be a email problem at their end, I sent a couple of messages without problems, now I get postmaster errors.


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I've been approached about becoming a reseller of a new product, a 12v GU10 LED.
> 
> The 12v mr16 I think they are called can easily be converted to led with just the purchase of a driver ,the mr16 are not as bulky I think they are also cheaper to manufacture than the gu10 ,so personally sorry don't see the point in 12v gu10 .


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Evs54 said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> > I've been approached about becoming a reseller of a new product, a 12v GU10 LED.
> ...


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Be wary of such approaches IMO, this sounds like a similar version of a scam that has been featured on TV where companies ask you to sell their goods for them.

They say that they will get an account sorted out soon but that you should use your e-bay account for the time being while they monitor your performance.....

You sell lots of the items and pass the money over, they fail to send the goods out and it is you that gets the blame from the irate customers.....

I may be being over-cautious but do tread with great care - particularly as you already have troubles getting them to accept e-mails.......

To me such things would have a distinct "eau de rat" aroma attached to it and I would be very, very wary of such approaches.

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Be wary of such approaches IMO, this sounds like a similar version of a scam that has been featured on TV where companies ask you to sell their goods for them.
> 
> They say that they will get an account sorted out soon but that you should use your e-bay account for the time being while they monitor your performance.....
> 
> ...


Caution is my watchword, but I approached them and I would only sell stock I hold, and no money would ever leave my account without my authority, I would simply sell and pay them less my commission, not interested in any other type of deal.

All a bit irrelevant if there is no market, that's my main query.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Agree to sell them on a 'cost plus' basis only.

They provide the product and you sell them and pay them afterwards. They might agree to that, at least for a minimum time in order to get the product off the ground.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

It's a fast-moving market, we have standard halogen spots (2) flourescent strips (2) and flourescent circular (4) lights in the trailer, and none are really old enough to justify changing, but with the boom in household LED lighting, prices are set to fall.

Peter


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## commuter (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm currently swapping all my gu10 bulbs at home for led's so not sure the market is there

I've bought adapters to allow me to use all the obsolete gu10 halogens in other fittings in locations where lights are not used often or for long periods. Will replace these with leds when my gu10 stock runs out

Still struggling to get my head round what I need in the MH


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## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I've been approached about becoming a reseller of a new product, a 12v GU10 LED


Not sure what you are talking about here, homes not motorhomes ??

GU10 is widely available in an LED version already [240v]
MR16 are also widely available in LED version , although swapping them needs an upgrade/ change to the transformer for 240v applications

Ikea are doing LED GU10 for around £3
Just got Osram MR16 on Ebay for £6, these are AC rated and tolerate any transformers

We [UK] are on the edge of going LED, at the moment you are seeing fittings to convert to a traditional style of fitting, but this will move to a ' designed for LED ' format as we leave behind the traditional Edison screw and barnet fitting.

Its a fast moving market, I have just bought a new car and would not consider any vehicle that did not have DRL's [LED running lights]

regds
neill


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

bubble63 said:


> Its a fast moving market, I have just bought a new car and would not consider any vehicle that did not have DRL's [LED running lights]
> regds
> neill


You don't have much choice, Neill, it's a legal requirement now.

Peter


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## bubble63 (Sep 30, 2009)

hi peter 

agree,

but I was looking at new to me  

ended up buying new , how did that happen 8) 

neill


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## Antonia (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi

I would be concerned.

I believe that GU 10 is an international standard fitting covered by the IEC ( IEC 60061-1 (7004-120) ) as a Mains voltage fitting.

A 12v fitting of this type may not get type approval, which, 'may' be why they are trying to sell 12v versions in this way. I don't think that a 12v version would ever get type approval as there would be too much risk that someone 'may' put it into a mains supply and thus be dangerous.

regards

Antonia


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

commuter said:


> I'm currently swapping all my gu10 bulbs at home for led's so not sure the market is there
> 
> I've bought adapters to allow me to use all the obsolete gu10 halogens in other fittings in locations where lights are not used often or for long periods. Will replace these with leds when my gu10 stock runs out
> 
> Still struggling to get my head round what I need in the MH


the GU10 I mentioned would be 12v LED not Halogen, mainly for the MH market not homes, but could be adapted easily for domestic/home use.

But a point has been raised, which I'll address in the next post for clarity.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Antonia said:


> Hi
> 
> I would be concerned.
> 
> ...


A very valid point Antonia, not one a I can answer, and might prove to be a fly in the ointment, however surely a manufacturer making a new product would be well aware of any risks involved, as far as I am aware there is no existing stock, and even then I would only hold it, not buy it, so they would lose out anyway by sending what is old stock in a rapidly changing market, I would need to be supplied with the latest stock.

Also wouldn't a 12v bulb just blow the LEDs if supplied with mains voltage, or just not work at all.


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

I do feel its like saying you can make a car cheaper if you dont bother with the brakes

A GU10 is a mains voltage lamp, to make a led version you have to include a transformer,which also has to have overload protection built in

If you don't it will most likely go with a bang
How can you sell a product that may explode if you plug it into the wrong voltage, I doubt they would ever get CE approval, as they would be dangerous

All the big manufacturers are now well into the LED market, I feel you may be 5 years too late

Alan H


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Alan, as I said in the OP they currently (sorry) come with a transformer already fitted so they can run on mains, so it would have to be left out at manufacture, not put in to run on 12v.

Can you actually power a LED with mains anyway, are they not all LOW voltage and that it why they get used so much in MHs.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Can you actually power a LED with mains anyway, are they not all LOW voltage and that it why they get used so much in MHs.


LED's typically need a couple of volts (or just under) across the junction to work, and then the current drawn is a function of the light output.

You can run an LED off the mains as long as you have a dropper device of some sort, and something to protect the LED itself against surges etc.

We run large diameter LED's in a special housing on 600V - 750V DC (3rd rail supply) with no problems, it's just a decent sized metalclad resistor, but there are other ways of doing it, like using a capacitor if you're on AC.

12V LED's have the resistor built in already.

Philips already do a 230V LED GU10 bulb:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-cluster-lamps/0497075/

Peter


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I knew I'd not thrown it away.

Ever since I was a lad, if something stopped working, I'd take it to pieces, not so much to repair it but to see what was inside, still do if I don't know already.

Anyway IO stripped a GU10 LED which stopped a while ago to see the innards, see pics of it, I just chucked it in my junk drawer in the garage.


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

I think you need advice from some of the Electronic experts on here,

I still dont see the logic of trying to plug a 12volt lamp into mains voltage
If you have gu10 light fittings in your motorhome the will surely be powered by mains voltage

So as the Dragons would say 
"Im Out"

Alan H


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Fatalhud said:


> I think you need advice from some of the Electronic experts on here,
> 
> I still dont see the logic of trying to plug a 12volt lamp into mains voltage
> If you have gu10 light fittings in your motorhome the will surely be powered by mains voltage
> ...


More than likely at some point but, pointless if no one sees a market, which is the exersize here, not will it work, that's a manufacturing issue not mine.

So to get back on topic is there a market or not. I assume not on here. Shame I cant delete this thread as it is going in completely the wrong direction. Nothing new there.

It's a simple queztion really would you buy a 12v GU10 LED lamp


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> It's a simple queztion really would you buy a 12v GU10 LED lamp


On a new build, yes, but on existing equipment that would need rewiring, no.

Peter


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Someone is taking the proverbial here. :roll: 

GU10 is an international standard termination for a 240v lamp, NOT a 12v, therefore a 12v bulb manufactured using the GU10 termination would be contrary to recognised standards and most of all DANGEROUS.

Imagine you have a drawer full of spare bulbs, one of your 240v GU10 lamps blows so you select another GU10 bulb from your drawer. If that bulb you select is rated at 12v it will simply fail or even possibly explode first time it's turned on.

Leave well alone, someone is trying to take you for a ride, the concept is daft and potentially lethal.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

There are low voltage bulbs available in standard bayonet and ES screw, but people don't have a problem differentiating between the two?

There are all sorts of cases in the lighting industry where bulbs with common fittings are available with different voltage, so I don't think the idea is bad from that point of view, but lack of information will likely be the biggest issue for both the seller and buyer.

Peter


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## commuter (Jul 13, 2011)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Can you actually power a LED with mains anyway, are they not all LOW voltage and that it why they get used so much in MHs.


I picked up my gu10 led replacement in Costco. Made no changes to the light fittings which are mains powered (240v) plugged them in and they work so a straight swap is possible but I'm not sure if the bulbs are full of circuitry


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It's obvious that there is a bit of disagreement, so I think I'll wait and see if the manufacturer get's back in touch.


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## Arrachogaidh (Sep 27, 2011)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/GU10-XLamp-white-1217WH-Misc/dp/B001P538N0

*I think they already exist...............*

:idea: :idea: :idea:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Arrachogaidh said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/GU10-XLamp-white-1217WH-Misc/dp/B001P538N0
> 
> *I think they already exist...............*
> 
> :idea: :idea: :idea:


That's odd, I had a couple of GU10 fittings I would have liked to use in the van about a month ago, so Googled for 12v LED to fit them, not a sausage, so I put them on Ebay, so things have moved on a bit and make this thread a bit old.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

gaspode said:


> Someone is taking the proverbial here. :roll:
> 
> GU10 is an international standard termination for a 240v lamp, NOT a 12v, therefore a 12v bulb manufactured using the GU10 termination would be contrary to recognised standards and most of all DANGEROUS.
> 
> ...


You beat me to it. GU10 is an international standard for a 220/240 Volt mains operated light. It is not possible to create a 12 Volt version and either call it GU10 or share the fittings. There is a simple reason for this and that is the possible fire and health risk of fitting a 12V bulb into a 12V fitting.
It will never get through the standards.
Gerry


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Arrachogaidh said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/GU10-XLamp-white-1217WH-Misc/dp/B001P538N0
> 
> *I think they already exist...............*
> 
> :idea: :idea: :idea:


Obviously not, not available and no projected date for availability. Simply, they will never be available.
Gerry


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

On the domestic everyday scene, rather than on the Internet, there are not that many High Street retailers selling LED's.
Many homes like mine will have gangs of 12v halogen lamps in sets of three or five and could be replaced by economical LED's if they fitted but the clincher would be price. Until LED's can match or beat the older short life Halogen, I cannot see anyone making a killing. Even then, the big sales will come from the Hypermarkets, if and when they begin selling.
Pubs, clubs and restaurants however, who use vast numbers of small Halogen spots, could be a market to explore.
As for motorhome sales, there may well be dregs to pick up, but the competition here is quite strong, as may be witnessed at any motorhome show where queues can form at stalls where the people with some know how are selling to those without know how, the whole range of available LED's where the price is already beginning to drop out of the market.

Alan


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