# Hymer warranties



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

My Hymer Van needs it's annual habitation and water ingress test - it's now 2 years old but I'm rather peeved that the 6 year warranty on water ingress is only valid if the work is carried out by an approved Hymer dealer - Brownhills - who happen to also own Hymer UK. My issue is that my "nearest" Brownhills is a 100 miles away so taking the Van there is costly and time consuming for work that can surely be carried out by a more local motorhome dealer. Like a lot of people I am trying to reduce my expenditure at the moment so would rather get it done locally by a competent alternative motorhome dealer. 

Mechanical servicing can be carried out by any 3rd party without invalidating the warranty of the vehicle, so why does this not apply to things like habitation and water ingress tests?? Surely Hymer/Brownhills approach is tantamount to operating a cartel and harks back to the bad old days of closed markets. How difficult is it to do a habitation test anyway??

I guess my main question is whether their approach is actually legal under Fair Trading terms?? I've made an enquiry with local Trading Standards and am expecting a call back sometime soon with their view.

personally I think I'd rather save the faff of travelling to Brownhills and get the test done locally and hope no warranty issues arise.

anyone else care to comment??


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi;

I'm in the same boat as you if I want to keep the 6 year water ingress warranty. 
Brownhills appear to have the UK stitched up like a kipper :evil: 
It will be interesting to see the reply you get from trading standards.

Your only other option is to have it serviced abroad as part of your holiday, thats what i'm probably doing this year. Haven't costed it yet, but i've heard it much cheaper at German hymer outlets and they'll probably do a better job.

Pete


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi peejay

Have no trips to the continent planned until at least March - France - so would like to try to get it done asap in the UK.

I minded to take the Fair Trading thing further if possible and get the OFT involved as I'm damn sure that Hymer/Brownhills are not acting in the best interest of their customers, only themselves..


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Same boat here.

We are a four hour drive away from Hymer Preston.

Had the Van for 19 months now.

One is given a six month leeway either side of the twelve months.

We are too late for that and have decided it is just not worth the faff of getting the damp test done by Hymer.

It appears that Hymer agents have to buy test vouchers in advance from Hymer HQ in Germany and then submit them when the tests are done.

I keep a close "nose" on possible musty smells that might indicate a damp problem. Plus MK1 eyeball.

So far, nothing remotely suggestive of any damp detected.

I have nothing but praise for the service we have had from Hymer UK Preston but it really is too much of a drag to go there.


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Brownhills Canterbury have quoted me £199 for the habitation service and ingress test - factor in cost of getting there and back, plus probably another vehicle so we can leave the van for them to do the work, plus faff to go back and get it (we have done this by bike before as we were in training for a big event!) - and we're damn close to £300 I reckon.

I can get it done within 15 miles of home for £140 - but of course - no warranty cert......

grrrrrr


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

fatbuddha said:


> Brownhills Canterbury have quoted me £199 for the habitation service and ingress test - factor in cost of getting there and back, plus probably another vehicle so we can leave the van for them to do the work, plus faff to go back and get it (we have done this by bike before as we were in training for a big event!) - and we're damn close to £300 I reckon.
> I can get it done within 15 miles of home for £140 - but of course - no warranty cert......
> grrrrrr


From memory, we are £99 plus VAT and as regards warranty terms, you could well have a case under the 'unfair contracts act' or whatever it is called although I dont want to raise your hopes.

It can easliy be done in a morning unless problems are found frankly.

Peter


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

At the risk of sticking my head above the parapet.....
Surely it is reasonable to expect that Hymer, when issuing a generous 6 year water ingress/damp thingy warranty would want the vehicle tested by one of their approved agents?
Also, again above the parapet.... when we buy a MH from a dealership we know the distance from our house to theirs.
As regards mechanical servicing/testing. Is not the warranty for the base vehicle with the manufacturer of said vehicle i.e. Ford/Fiat/Mercedes etc? hence the flexibility with choice of location for servicing.
As it happens, we are also a 4/5 hour drive from HymerUK Preston but this year will visit Hymer at Bad Waldsee for habitation and damp checks. A much pleasanter experience than Preston.
I'll just duck right back down now!
Sal


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi [email protected] Cross - you might be getting a call at that price! (I'm in Eastbourne)



> Surely it is reasonable to expect that Hymer, when issuing a generous 6 year water ingress/damp thingy warranty would want the vehicle tested by one of their approved agents?


yes - but when the dealer (Hymer) and their approved agents (Brownhills) are actually one and the same company, that smacks of unfair practice imho......



> Also, again above the parapet.... when we buy a MH from a dealership we know the distance from our house to theirs.


again yes - but I bought the Van new as that was the model I wanted - I didn't realise at the time, the issue with servicing and limited outlets to do this......


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Fatbuddha

Yeah we are all on learning curves, some are steeper than others, but most usually cost us something on the way. Aah well - onward and upward.
On a more serious note: the manufacturer is Hymer AG with HQ in Bad Waldsee, Germany and therefore the water ingress warranty is with them. HymerUK, a/k/a Brownhills, are Hymer AG's agent in the UK.

Sal


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## gabbie (Feb 28, 2007)

*Water ingress reports*

I bought a Niesmann & Bischoff from Preston, the water ingress has been carried out every year by them. I find recently that water is going into the garage through the two doors. I think it is the high powered hose which is pushing the seal when I get it washed. However, I was booked in for this monday for it's water ingress inspection. I live in Scotland, I have to drive 600miles round trip. I asked on the phone, will you have a new seal to get it done while I'm down there. ?? They phoned back saying, they could do the ingress report but they are not allowed to do any repairs for a Niesmann. I cancelled the appointment, as I can't see why I should spend all that money on Diesel for one of their men to go into the van with a metre, tell me it failed, me pay up the money and drive 300miles back. Still in the same condition. They said I could take it to Wales for the repairs, this is even further. Now, I am going to get a local business to check it over and carry out the repair. I will forget about the warranty.
Gabbie


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Chances are that you won't need the water ingress warranty. For Hymer to issue a 6yr warranty they must be expecting only a very small number of claims.

If you're unlucky and do get a leak what's the rub? You simply pay someone to fix it. By my reckoning you'll have paid out in the region of £1500 and have made 5 trips back and forth to the Hymer dealer with all the associated inconvenience so unless your leak costs in excess of £1500 to fix you're a winner.

Three sensible courses of action open to you:
1) Have the Hymer check done when on the continent it'll cost less than £100 and take less than half a day.
2) Have a dampness check done locally once a year and you should catch any water ingress before the repair costs eat too far into your £1500.
3) Do a regular dampness check yourself and there's a 90%+ chance you'll get away with it costing you nothing.

Are you a betting man? :wink:


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

*Hymer warranty*

I'm in agreement with gaspode, do it youself (damp meter in lidl/aldi £10) and save the time,money and inconvenience.
curlyboy


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Agree with the 2 above, and would add that if you are unlucky enough to have a problem take it to Peter Hambilton to get it fixed.

That's what I do


Andrew


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Agree with what has been said on this thread and it seems to me that the main point of continuing to have the damp test done and warranty continued is if you want to sell the vehicle before the expiry of the 6 year warranty.

When I sold my previous Hymer the fact that the damp warranty was still in force certainly helped.

Brownhills have quoted me £99 for the damp test in isolation.


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

there is a far cheaper solution...

stay somewhere hot & sunny, and you won't get any damp!


lol


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Wilse - very funny - from a cold wet and windy Wales!


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

I recall when we owned a Hymer that Lowdhams would carry the habitation check out for people and stamp the book - they were (not sure now mind you) Hymer Caravan Agents....see if you can find one of them closer - it is a Hymer dealer.....

We did got to Bad Waldsee once, but you do need to book in advance, as they are ALWAYS BUSY... what does that tell us.....more faults that we realised - at least that was our impression when there and talking to the other people in their Hymers.....not as good as we had thought.

Carol


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

thanks for all the comments.......

Gaspode - I like your style - and am coming around to your way of thinking 8) 

getting the test done locally and getting the book stamped will still mean something I guess if selling on in even if the warranty is no longer in force - at least it will show to a buyer that due care has been lavished on the vehicle......

out of interest - what do other (non-German) brands offer on this warranty matter?? are they all similar with 6 years and insist on selected service centres??


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

carol said:


> We did got to Bad Waldsee once, but you do need to book in advance, as they are ALWAYS BUSY... what does that tell us.....more faults that we realised - at least that was our impression when there and talking to the other people in their Hymers.....not as good as we had thought.
> 
> Carol





> We were very impressed with the standard of service offered at Bad Waldsee. Whilst at Dusseldorf we arranged an appointment for a tour of Hymer HQ factory. After our tour we asked if they could have a look at our van for a couple of things. They did this plus fixing something we hadn't even asked about. We also had a cycle rack fitted - this we had to wait for until the next day, not unreasonable we thought. It was busy, with both booked-in vans for annual habitation and damp checks etc (for which they have a secure compound) and drop-ins who are welcome to use the stellplatz. A mix of German, Dutch and English. Considering the number of Hymer vans we saw on the roads in Germany alone I think the number of folk visiting Bad Waldsee was a small percentage indeed.
> 
> We asked about returning this year for habitation and damp checks and they did ask us to book ahead, which is perfectly understandable, however, we didn't see anyone turned away who had dropped in with a problem.
> 
> Sal


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## dinger (Jul 30, 2007)

*Hymer service*

Just to add , our Hymer Exsis (2004) is booked into Johns cross for mid feb....for habitation check , motor service and m.o.t.

My reasoning is , along the same line as Gaspode , either go to Germany , where its cheaper and spoilt for dealer choice OR stick with a company that is relatively local and well represented on this forum.

Dinger


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: Hymer service*



dinger said:


> Just to add , our Hymer Exsis (2004) is booked into Johns cross for mid feb....for habitation check , motor service and m.o.t.
> 
> My reasoning is , along the same line as Gaspode , either go to Germany , where its cheaper and spoilt for dealer choice OR stick with a company that is relatively local and well represented on this forum.
> 
> Dinger


Thanks Dinger

Peter


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## dinger (Jul 30, 2007)

*servicing*

note to Peter........

We deliver our van at your establishment on the....14th feb

Lady dinger will of course be expecting a valentines choccy biscuit of sorts

Me......... i am a 6ft 15 stone bloke that will spend hours looking at all the new toys parked outside......who says romance is dead.


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## machilly (Feb 10, 2007)

Since buying my Hymer (from Hymer Preston), I have had all warranty work and Habitation checks done by my local Eriba dealer in West Calder(Jandi Caravans).which are part of Hymer
I pay approx £50 for the habitation check, and my book is stamped up to date...
maybe you should see if you have one near you....


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

local Trading Standards came back to me this morning on this issue.....

although they can't give a definitive answer, the comment was that they thought that Hymer/Brownhills insistence on the ingress test being performed solely by them to maintain warranty could be construed as an "unfair contract term". they have suggested that I raise the issue by writing to Hymer but I'll do some homework first on the relevant legislation - TS pointed me at the relevant EC regulations.

basically aftersales warranty work on cars and light vehicles is covered by the "Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulation (EC) N° 1400/2002" the background of which is as follows:



> Since 2002 the Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulation EC N° 1400/2002 has provided the regulatory framework for the distribution of new motor vehicles, automotive spare parts and servicing. Important for
> consumers and the automotive aftermarket, this Regulation contains provisions designed to safeguard choice and competition both in the distribution of new vehicles and in the aftermarket servicing and repair
> of vehicles. Notably, it has succeeded not only in achieving better price parity across the EU but also in improving access for market operators to vehicle manufacturers' technical information, which is needed to
> fairly compete with the authorised networks in providing consumers with choice and competitively priced aftermarket services. This access covers training, diagnostic tools and test equipment, spare parts and
> repair information.


BUT - nowhere can I find any info as to whether this relates to motorhomes and specifically habitation and water ingress tests so I need to investigate further.

I am investigating further with BERR (Dept for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform - Dept of Trade & Industry as was) to see if they can shed some more light in matters. I'm also going to talk to the Office of Fair Trading to see what they say.

watch this space - I ain't done yet......... :evil:


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Having spoken to a number of knowledgable people now at trading Standards, SMMT, and BERR it seems that what Hymer/Brownhills are doing is actually not illegal under the block exemption scheme. This scheme is intended to open up the aftersales service market but the manufacturer eiether has to open access to technical information either to ALL aftermarket service companies who request it; or use nominated agents much as what Brownhills are doing. There is no halfway house - it's either all or none.

However, everyone seems to believe that Hymer/Brownhills are not acting in the best interest of the consumers and it could be argued that they could be acting in an anti-competitive manner under EC regs and operating unfair contract terms. The problem here is proving it - this would need to be taken to court to get a ruling at considerable expense and time - something I'm not prepared to do! My pockets and patience aren't deep enough.......... :x

However, it has been suggested that I raise the question with an organisation called FIGIEFA which is (translated as) the International Federation of Automotive Aftermarket Distributors who lobby the EC on behalf of the aftermarket industry



> FIGIEFA represents the interests of 26 national trade associations of automotive aftermarket distributors from 23 countries worldwide. Founded in 1956, FIGIEFA's interest is to safeguard free competition in the aftermarket on European and international level.


the current block exemption scheme is due to expire in 2010 and a new framework is being drawn up to replace it - maybe it's a good time to raise the issue with them so I will mail them.

I will be back!


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