# Have you Drained all of your water ?



## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

Hello

Now I'm not trying to be a bighead. 

But with the sharp frosts that are occuring severe & expensive damage can be caused by water freezing & expanding in your water system.

As there are a lot of Newbies joining everyday I was wondering if they knew as it's not mentioned very often.

Drain your Fresh water tank,water heater,leave your taps open & empty your grey water.

If you use the motorhome don't forget to refill !! 


:lol:


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

No just the water heater. My waste is empty and fresh is perhaps a quarter full.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Techno100 said:


> No just the water heater. My waste is empty and fresh is perhaps a quarter full.


Which means there is water in your pump. 8O

The fresh water tank may survive, but if the pump freezes solid it will be knackered. Similarly the taps and the shower head. 8O

Experience speaking here. I thought I had drained down thoroughly one year, but forgot to open the shower tap and let the water drain from the head.

It fell in half!! :roll:

Dave


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Drain*



Techno100 said:


> No just the water heater. My waste is empty and fresh is perhaps a quarter full.


Yes, same here.

One downside of the ALDE heating is that you HAVE to remember to switch the yellow drain valve.

With the Truma, it did it automatically, often when it did not need to!

TM


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*drain water*

Yup done i like to drain down if im not golng to use the van in the next week or so.
Chris


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Zebedee said:


> Techno100 said:
> 
> 
> > No just the water heater. My waste is empty and fresh is perhaps a quarter full.
> ...


With the pump turned off there should be no water at the taps after a week, it should have found its way back to the tank by gravity as the system is not sealed due to the water heater drain being open.


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## higgy2 (May 5, 2009)

We have drained all the water from the tanks and Cascade heater
unit we forgot last year (being new to MH's) and had to source a
new Cascade Heater Unit.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Better be safe than sorry. Some owners use an air line to blow out the pockets of collected water. 
Not sure where to connect the air line for best results but would guess at the pump.

Ray.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Thank you for the reminder; would you like to circulate it to major dealers too ?

Yesterday we collected ours after it's hab service. Both of us, separately and together, had asked the service manager to make sure it was drained down before we collected it as we have no facilities to do so where we store the van. This was noted down on the service sheet.

When we got to the dealers I opened the waste drain to make sure the last few drops were drained through as we drove home. A significant amount drained onto the forecourt but I put this down to the fact that the tank is lopsided.

When we got back to the farm I opened the taps to the halfway position and was drenched. No draining had been done and the fresh water tank was half full !

A stiff letter has been posted.....

G


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Techno100 said:


> With the pump turned off there should be no water at the taps after a week, it should have found its way back to the tank by gravity as the system is not sealed due to the water heater drain being open.


Perhaps? (_As Hercule Poirot would say - raising a quizzical eyebrow._ :roll: )

There is one consolation though Techno . . . . if you are wrong you won't need to change your avatar! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave :lol: :lol:

P.S. If you are correct, what made my shower head fall in half? 8O


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## JackieP (Oct 15, 2006)

EEK. Our van is in getting a wee hole in its bumper fixed. It's in a garage so I'd hope it will be protected a little. I sincerely hope it will be protected as I didn't drain it down when I dropped it off on Wednesday (when it was bright and sunny and warm(ish).

Doh. :/

We've had a tap fall to pieces after draining the system down too. I just assumed it was due to ice expansion. Never knew we should leave them open.

We do now though


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

On the list of jobs to do today.
Drain all water from mh
Wash car :lol: 
Clear white stuff from 30 odd metres of drive.
Cancelled christmas shopping :wink: 

Dave p


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Someone was curious as to where to connect an air-line to express any surplus water. It was not until I began thinking how obviously you connect the line to a tap or taps, that I remembered I have not done that myself. So thank you RAYNIPPER, if it is not too late already I will shove the white decorative stuff of the van and do it now.http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/surprised.gif
Alan


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

> There is one consolation though Techno . . . . if you are wrong you won't need to change your avatar!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## geordie01 (Apr 20, 2006)

monday serviced home ch boiler and went to storage and drained the mh
just in time as it is freezing up here.


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## cairnnut (Oct 23, 2009)

thanks for that, only got the van yesterday and was shown how to drain it all down , just realised reading this that the toilet flush tank was full, been out with a torch and a bucket and drained it off. must have looked very suspicious to the neighbours :?


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

If I manage to save one water system then all my effort has not been in vain :wink:


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

moblee said:


> If I manage to save one water system then all my effort has not been in vain :wink:


Well done Moblee. You convinced me to drain my tank and boiler and run the pump empty for a few seconds and leave the taps open and leave a 900w oil-filled heater set at 7C...

The fact that the temperature is going to be below or around freezing for the next week also helped persuade me to shift the water. :roll:


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Brrrr,

Fortunately I have drained down the water system and with the temperature forecast not to get above -2 today probably a good idea.

It is more important to do this if the m/home is not fully winterised as there is obviously more chance of the water system freezing up.

Just been out to check the truck and the temperature inside is 8 deg so the 1000watt oil filled radiator is doing it's job well,with the cold snap forecast to continue well into next week this is a timely and useful thread. :wink:


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## Marrabone (Apr 8, 2010)

I have drained down all the tanks and have all the taps in the open position. I've also taken it for a short drive in the hope of draining any remains out. I haven't done the compressed air job though, not sure about where to do it from.

I do have the heating on low in there (it was -7 here last night). Do l still need to have the heating on even though the tanks are empty?

If so, at what temperature would you consider it necessary to switch it on?


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi all,

Don't forget those little inline drain taps, between the tank and the tap. If leaving the taps open, the 12v or pump isolation switch needs to be in the off position. Some pumps are so quiet in tanks under seats etc, that you cannot hear them, and you could end up burning it out.

Although fully winterised, we always drain down in these temperatures, even if we are out in the MH again the following weekend. It's just not worth the risk. :thumbleft:

We've never done the compressed air bit during six years of ownership.

Cheers for now,

Jock.

P.S. *Marrabone*, as long as eveything is drained down "fully", there is no need to leave the heating on. Some folks, (us included in extreme temperatures), leave a small oil filled heater on, if connected to hook up. We use a timer on ours, so that it is only on during the coldest times, ie, between 22.00 and 10.00.

HTH


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

When the weather is cold we usually have one oil heater running while the van is parked up at home.
But last night I put a second oil heater in and I am so pleased that I did as the temperature this morning is -10
Everything is drained as usual.


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## JackieP (Oct 15, 2006)

I know I said our van was in a garage getting some work done, but I really really really wish we'd drained off the last of the water before we left it.


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## daveil (Mar 14, 2010)

where is the water heater :?: and how do i drain it :?: bessacar e495(2010) i was told this van is winterised,does it still need to be drained :?


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

daveil said:


> where is the water heater :?: and how do i drain it :?: bessacar e495(2010) i was told this van is winterised, does it still need to be drained :?


Hi Daveil,

Your MH user guide will be able to direct you as to the whereabouts of your heater. As A Hymer owner, I am unable to help, but usually the heaters are either in the bottom of the wardrobe, under a bench seat, or under the kitchen bar area, as is ours.
Hopefully Swift/Bessacar owners will be along shortly to put you right.

Draining the heater depends upon which model you have fitted, ie, Truma Combi or Ultrastore, (or Carver in older models). 
Some have an automatic "dump valve" (red solenoid type), and some have a manual lever dump valve, (yellow). Older Hymers had a push button, (yellow solenoid type).
The older Carver water heaters (Cascade) should only be drained when cold, as drainage of the water when hot, creates a vacuum, thereby displacing the rubber/neoprene non return valve within the valve's plastic housing. There are only two ways to remedy that problem...........but that's for another thread. :wink:

HTH,

Jock.


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

On our swift the water heaters under our central dinette,it has a Yellow dump switch.

 As the op.. I checked my toilet flush tank today & drained it off it was full of icy water (All crystalised)


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

daveil said:


> where is the water heater :?: and how do i drain it :?: bessacar e495(2010) i was told this van is winterised,does it still need to be drained :?


Hi, I think that as far as the Bessecar is concerned 'winterised' has a limited meaning.

What they actually mean is that they have provided:
Heaters in the fresh and waste water tanks which operate automatically at 4 degrees.
Lagging to the waste pipes under the MH.
Fridge vents.

Winterising means that you have additional protection for when you are using it in the winter. If you are not using it or heating it somehow you still need to drain down the boiler etc.

Ray


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## daveil (Mar 14, 2010)

thanks, i had better take a look under the seats and see if i can find the water heater before it gets any colder


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

The water in the pump and some of the pipework and fittings is not self draining. I found my pump frozen yesterday although the system is drained and I have a oil filled rad on frost setting. I thawed it out and it seems fine now but I have upped the thermostat to 5deg. I think some form of frost protection in the pump compartment would be a good idea i.e. thermostat controlled heater tape or small tubular heater of course you need electric hookup for it to work.



Graham


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Worth mentioning perhaps that no amount of insulation will stop things freezing.

All it can ever do is slow down the process. If it stays cold enough for long enough, it will freeze!!! 8O

And by the same principles of Physics, the thawing process will be slowed down in just the same way.

Do not be lulled into a false sense of security if your van is is "winterised" or "fully insulated".

It will _help_, but it won't _prevent_.

Dave


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> clipped.........Do not be lulled into a false sense of security if your van is is "winterised" or "fully insulated".
> 
> It will _help_, but it won't _prevent_.
> 
> Dave


Absolutely Dave. Good advice. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Trouble is all these systems assume your van is parked dead level. Mine isnt and so i drain it all down and then drive around the block a couple of times. you would be suprised how much water comes out after.


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

Well this is all new to me, as only got my MH this year.
Wish you peeps had told me earlier, lol.

Been out to the van and it is rather cold, as minus a few outside. Got one green light on my control panel for fresh water. Checked under the seat and the water tank was not frozen, under the van the overflow/exit pipe has a frozen icicle coming out of it


So I turned on the gas yesterday and run the heating at 2 since , warmed up nice in the van.


Just an update , the water has now drained into a frozen waste tank.

I noticed the tap in the kitchen was not frozen like yesterday , so turned the pump on and opened all the taps and it all drained down to the waste tank,


Hopefully be ok now.

Gary 

Gary


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

Just an update , the water has now drained into a frozen waste tank.

I noticed the tap in the kitchen was not frozen like yesterday , so turned the pump on and opened all the taps and it all drained down to the waste tank,


Hopefully be ok now.

Gary


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

Well done Gary,You want to keep your motorhome "Posh" :wink:


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

In one bit, be good , let alone "Posh" lol

Gary


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

It was a Double entendre Gary 8O 

Applying to keeping the Motorhome "Posh" & the pile of c..p up the A1. :wink: :lol: :lol:


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

Lol I know moby, Up the A1 is a good set of players, just they haven`t clue what they are doing.


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Thanks for the warning. I had previously drained my system. I went 

out today to check. I had not left the sink tap and the shower hose 

open. This resulted in an ice lollipop in the sink. The tap is a push 

on one with a rubber seal, which I do not think has been damaged.

I was suprised to find ice at the bottom of the fresh water tank 

that I had previously wiped dry. It looks as though I might need to 

find an airline to blow through the system, There do seem to be a 

number of places where water does not appear to drain from using 

the drain plug, worryingly those attached to the truma heater. It 

may be just a bit of residual water in the pipes that have frozen, 

the heater itself seems fine. I will know for sure when I fill it up 

again.

Jonesy 1


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## boringfrog (Sep 22, 2006)

*Ice in fresh water tank*

Just got around to emptying our tanks today and found a thin layer of ice in one of the internal water tanks. Have been living in the van until the snow came last week, now moved into Mother in Laws. (no jokes please) :wink:


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Ice in fresh water tank*



boringfrog said:


> ... now moved into Mother in Laws. (no jokes please) :wink:


Courtesy of the late Les Dawson:

"I'm not saying my mother in law is fat but when she passed her handbag from one hand to the other, she had to throw it!"

"I'm not saying my mother in law is ugly but a peeping-tom knocked on her window and asked her to close the curtains!"

AuntieSandra's Mum - my MIL - passed away in May of this year.  She used to howl at Les's MIL jokes.

Oh, you'll be pleased to know that my tanks are drained and heating is on. There... back on topic. Sorry!


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## steles (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Jonesy 
It seems that Burstner fail to understand even simple principals of Hydraulics. You may try to blow out all the residual water from pipe work but in fact that will be impossible, in several locations the water pipes both hot and cold have to rise at least 90mm to clear heating ducting. Some residual water will of course be blown over but in general the air will pass over the water trapped in the weir created. In my manual it also states lift the pump to ensure all water is drained, the design with pump in tank will of course not allow this, the only option is to disconnect the pump necessary if you are to "blow"out pipe work. Provided all taps are in the open centre position and all drains open hopefully the slugs of frozen water in pipe work will not cause problems. 
Stephen.


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

Did the op get a Forum medal for this thread ?

I for one think he should :!:


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

My Luxor has a Truma C603 & although the handbook refers to a safety/drain valve, there is not one fitted only a manual lever dump valve, (yellow). As I have not used the van as yet (will this weekend if not snowed in) I have drained as best I can, anyone advise as to what is the "open" position for the yellow dump lever valve as I have never had one before, & I need to ensure the heater is fully emptied.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Devonboy said:


> anyone advise as to what is the "open" position for the yellow dump lever valve as I have never had one before, & I need to ensure the heater is fully emptied.


If it's the same as ours, "Up" is open.

Tricky in this weather ( 8O ) but to be sure, lift the lever and watch for water pouring out under the van.

Almost certainly up though. You will feel it lifting the valve against a spring.

Dave


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## Devonboy (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks Zeb, that is probably why I could not see which was open as I had drained all the water out (hopefully).


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

hi Stephen.

I have not figured out how to do the airline thing yet. I will go out 

now and lift up the water pump to encourage drainage. I did run 

the water pump for a few seconds yesterday after warming up the 

motorhome, it purred quite happily. 

Thanks for your help.

Jonesy 1


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

jonesy1 said:


> hi Stephen.
> I have not figured out how to do the airline thing yet.


Not sure I would bother Jonesey, and you might do mare harm than good! 8O

If the tanks are empty, the taps are left open and the pumps are run for a few seconds to clear them of water, the van isn't going to come to much harm.

Any water left in the bottom of the lowest pipes will not burst them, since they are all plastic and will expand.

Dave


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

moblee said:


> Did the op get a Forum medal for this thread ?
> 
> I for one think he should :!:


I would like to agree but I can't remember who the op was!! :roll: :wink:


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Is there such a thing as trumpeters cheeks? I think I may have acquired a pair when trying to save time by blowing down the shower hose.
I am actually not that confident about connecting my air compressor line in case I damage my pump or pop an inaccessible push fit connection.
Somewhere along this line is a 'can't win' syndrome.
Alan


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

As always Dave's (Zebedee's) advice is sound.

It appears many on here do not have basic knowledge/experience of Physics.

Dave is right about the plastic pipes tolerating expansion.

A bit of residual water in the bottom of a basically empty tank is no problem as there is plenty of room for the freezing water to expand. The problem only arises when water expands in a confined/rigid space. 

As far as blowing through with compressed air is concerned, do not most systems have a non-return valve built in, either as part of the pump or as a separate valve? If so, blowing from the tap-end is pointless.

Maybe the safest protection for an immersed pump is to remove it and drain it completely. 

Geoff


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank you for the kind words Geoff.  

I actually find it quite easy to give sound advice. :wink: 

I don't - unless I am pretty sure I know what I'm talking about! :roll: 

If it is a "guestimate" I make it clear that I am uncertain.

I would hate any member to incur significant cost or even injury as a result of any advice I posted. 8O 

Dave


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Thanks Dave.

All is as you have described. I will leave well alone and check again 

when the thaw comes.

Remember people don't forget to take your flat screen televisions 

out. I forgot, but it is out now, safe and sound indoors. I will try to 

do better next year.

Jonesy 1.


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## antpurley (Apr 21, 2009)

Hi

We have been away for a few days and returned to this lovely weather , I fear our MH will be damaged as we forgot to drain system down. anyone got any ideas, also I may sound a bit daft but why do we have to take out flat screen tv.
I fear a costly mistake may have been made!
many thanks
Mandy


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## Skar (Jul 13, 2010)

antpurley said:


> Hi
> 
> We have been away for a few days and returned to this lovely weather , I fear our MH will be damaged as we forgot to drain system down. anyone got any ideas, also I may sound a bit daft but why do we have to take out flat screen tv.
> I fear a costly mistake may have been made!
> ...


I was in a similar position, didn't drain it down before going away and came back to -7 and all these warnings! Everything was frozen...Put a heater in there today and defrosted and all is well, everything works fine. Hope you have the same luck!

No idea about the TV, I'll get mine out tomorrow lol...


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

jonesy1 said:


> Thanks Dave.
> 
> All is as you have described. I will leave well alone and check again
> 
> ...


Never bothered with the TV, it's been left in the van for what is now the third winter of owning it and haven't yet had problems. It lives in it's own compartment which has a slide up/down shutter type door. I will take a chance on leaving it in there again this year.

Steve


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Has anyone suggested making sure there is a good slug of screenwash/ antifreeze in the windscreen washer bottle ?

G


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## jonesy1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Although I advised people to remove flat screen tv's I have no idea 

why this is so. When eventually I read the Burstner hand book on 

what to do when the motorhome is left for the winter, one of the 

things it said was remove flat screen tv. 

Jonesy 1.


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

As the name "liquid crystal display" (LCD) implies, the display technology uses a substance that shares the same properties as liquids. It therefore can freeze if left in cold enough temperatures. In most cases however, it will also defrost without damage once returned to room temperature. Check the specifications for your LCD device and you'll find two temperature ranges given -- one for storage and one for use. LCDs will only work properly in a certain temperature range, and can usually be stored in a larger range with colder and warmer temperatures. 
Most LCDs can be stored down to -40F or up to 115F before damage occurs, but will only operate properly in a more comfortable 50F to 90F range. This varies by screen, so you'll want to check the specifications in your TV's manual. If your LCD is left out in the cold, make sure to allow it to rise to room temperature before attempting to power it on, and it should be just fine.

Googled of course :!:


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Well the LCD screen's built into Autotrails, so removing them isn't much of an option...


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

We've brought ours into the House as we're not using it,but not because of any temperature issues (As we didn't know)... but just one less thing for some scrote to nick  :lol:


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## antpurley (Apr 21, 2009)

antpurley said:


> Hi
> 
> We have been away for a few days and returned to this lovely weather , I fear our MH will be damaged as we forgot to drain system down. anyone got any ideas, also I may sound a bit daft but why do we have to take out flat screen tv.
> I fear a costly mistake may have been made!
> ...


Well after defrosting the van and running everything there were just one or two problems  
!.The trauma water heater seems to only work on gas,I suppose this may be a fuse. 
2.The water supply to the toilet failed in the compartment that holds the thetford cassette.A jubilee clip came loose causing water to run along the pipe and through into the van under the rear seats.It the went through the floor at rear.Hopefully it will all dry out but it is not very helpful as swift have already replaced that piece of floor because of a design fault.
Could be worse and it looks like we can go to Disney next week if the weather is not too bad.


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## HeatherChloe (Oct 18, 2009)

wakk44 said:


> It is more important to do this if the m/home is not fully winterised as there is obviously more chance of the water system freezing up.


Hi

My van has a thermostat switch, so that when temperature falls, it automatically dumps all the fresh water.

I've come out this weekend, and naturally over the winter, the tank is empty.

I turned the switch back to closed and filled up the tank and drove onto my pitch here at the Caravan Club site.

But it's was frosty last night - within moments, the switch popped out again and dumped most of the tank onto my pitch.

I cannot get the switch to stay in - presumably because it's too cold.

So what does this mean???? That I cannot have water in my van unless it is warm???? I cannot flush the toilet so I'm pretty cross. And using Evian to fill my hotwater bottles too!

The instruction booklet simply says that if you're not using the vehicle in the winter that you should dump the water to prevent freezing. That implies that if you are using it, the water should be able to stay in - but I have no idea how to make that work.

PS it's nice and warm inside as the heater works well. And the instructions say that it heats the garage where the temperature switch is.

Any advice?


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