# Road tax while abroad



## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Not sure if this is the right place for this but couldn't see an appropriate place - himself just asked me what we would do if we were in France/abroad and the road tax on the motorhome was due.

I said i didn't know but I knew a man/woman who would know the answer??? (So please don't let me down!)


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## paulmold (Apr 2, 2009)

see here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022052


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It's a 'Road Fund License' for using UK roads.

Forget it until you return to UK. Then go straight to a UK post office and buy tax. 

Your not avoiding or trying to evade but just paying your dues.

Ray.


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## MikeCo (Jan 26, 2008)

Just make sure that the post office is next to the ferry, and of course your insurance would be invalid.

The better way is to make sure that it is not due while you are away, you can renew 2 months early at DVLA places otherwise sorn it and then start it in a month that is convenient.

Mike


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Insurance is valid without Road Tax, if you doubt me read your insurance policy, there will be no requirement for tax. 

Ray is correct but even so I keep mine taxed while we are away. I tax it by phone and have the disc posted to me, Alan.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

raynipper said:


> It's a 'Road Fund License' for using UK roads.
> 
> Forget it until you return to UK. Then go straight to a UK post office and buy tax.
> 
> ...


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

raynipper said:


> It's a 'Road Fund License' for using UK roads.
> 
> Forget it until you return to UK. Then go straight to a UK post office and buy tax.
> 
> ...


Be cautious dishing out this advice, Ray.

Some insurance companies, Safeguard being one of them, consider an untaxed (and thus SORN'd vehicle) as not being used and therefore will not pay out if it is found to being used at home or abroad while under SORN.

I completely agree with the notion, despite the DVLA website stating to the contrary, that while abroad provided insurance cover is still in force road tax should not be required. However I would not consider doing so unless my insurance company could provide me with confirmation in writing that the vehicle is still insured. You know what insurance company's are like when it comes to a claim and for £17/mth its not worth the risk.

Should your insurance company confirm road tax is no required for foreign usage - happy days. Tax the vehicle online before you sail home and you are given 5 working days grace from the 'failure to display' penalty while the disc is posted out to you. 
Alternatively you can surrender your tax disc and re-tax it for 12mths at any time at a DVLA office. The remaining amount will be refunded by cheque in the post.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

Decide when the most likely time is you will be going abroad and Tax the van for 6 months and then for twelve months which will move the renewal date to a more convenient period..

That's what I did so I didn't fall foul of the 4 months we are away over the winter Dec / March. :wink: 

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I may have thus this dilemma. I was just going to tax it online like I always do. The tax will then arrive in the post at home. I was then just going to get my neighbour who has access to my house to send it recorded delivery to a post office or something in france. I suppose I could just tax it online and not bother having it sent out.

This means a drive from Dover to oxford to see friends then home to yorkshire without displaying a valid tax disk. I'm guessig it won't show up on any cameras as not being taxed as it's paid for but I'm not sure how these cameras work.

If I do get it sent out is a post office the best place?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

SORN can only apply to a vehicle which is in the UK, the DVLA will not allow you to SORN a vehicle if you tell them you are taking it abroad. They will expect you to export it if you are away long term (over 6 months I think), the catch is where would you register it if you are moving from country to country and have no address other than your UK one. 

If you SORN it and then drive it on UK roads even to go to a post office when you arrive back, that is, of course an offense. 

What many of us do does not fit any model which the DVLA or legislators have considered so there are no simple answers which is why I keep mine taxed and insured while I am away.

For those who think an untaxed vehicle is uninsured, would you please post the passage in your Insurance Policy which states that. You do not need to ring an Insurer and ask your policy will tell you if that is a condition , it is a contract and exclusions which are not written in it cannot exist.

Finally, no matter what you do you must maintain your vehicle in roadworthy condition, failure to do that will invalidate your insurance, Alan.


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

erneboy said:


> For those who think an untaxed vehicle is uninsured, would you please post the passage in your Insurance Policy which states that. You do not need to ring an Insurer and ask your policy will tell you if that is a condition , it is a contract and exclusions which are not written in it cannot exist.


I do agree, but when I grilled my underwriter I was told it was covered under the my responsibility of keeping the vehicle 'road legal' which, as stated on the DVLA site means keeping the vehicle taxed when abroad.

I think a more constructive use of everyones time would be if we could get an official reply from our insurance companies, insurance regulator or similar before we go advising people to not tax their vehicles. I'd hate for someone to lose out on 5-6 figures because of a well meaning theory. It's a grey area (more or less grey depending on which size of the fence you are on.)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Addie, we are more or less saying the same thing.

If your Insurance Policy says the vehicle must be "road legal" that may complicate matters. Mine says "in roadworthy condition" there is a subtle difference. 

I have not come across the phrase road legal in an Insurance Policy. Perhaps anyone who has that wording in their policy would be kind enough to post the passage containing it.

I appreciate that you discussed it with your underwriter Addie however what he says in conversation does not change what your Policy says. He would have to change the wording at renewal or issue an endorsement to your existing policy to change the wording. It is a contract, Alan.


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## witzend (Aug 22, 2009)

*to tax or not*

Hi All worth looking into Possibly you could shorn you van while away and retax it on return if away for a few months


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## nickmawby (Oct 5, 2007)

*Road Fund licence and MOT*

I believe you have to have a valid MOT to renew your road fund licence (if vehicle over 3 years old), so this is something to consider when going abroad for some time. Not sure what you would do if it did run out; in the past I have renewed my MOT 4 months early to ensure this did not happen.


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## Patty123 (Oct 4, 2010)

"If you take your vehicle abroad it must be continuosly taxed." quote taken from Directgov.vehicle licensing.


PS you can tax 2 months in advance at a DVLA office not a Post Office.

Also on the above site it gives you a link to find the nearest Post Office when abroad to send your disc to.

Patty


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

We went home in May, I had to MOT then straight off the ferry. We left last week again and I MOT'd again the day before we left for exactly that reason.

If I had worked out the taxing and SORNing (while not in use of course) of my van carefully I could have had tax expiring next July and MOT which is valid till August allowing me to tax it for a further year, Alan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

So does anyone know what happens if you tax your van when abroad but just leave the disc on your doormat at home until you get back and drive home and stick it on?

PresumBly you could in theory be done for not displaying the new tax disk on your return home from Dover but presumably only if a traffic warden or policeman notices?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Barry, I think a traffic warden might be difficult, a cop could check the database. I would do it and explain if I had to but I would go home without parking anywhere likely to be patrolled by wardens, Alan.


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, I didn't realise it could all get so complicated! Thanks to everyone who replied, I can see it's something that needs careful thinking about. Dare I ask what you do if your MOT is due in the time you are planning to be away??


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Alan

the journey would be Dover to Cl near wantage without stopping (actually I could get it posted to my aunt there) then wantage to home without stopping.

Re Mot I think that's a no no as insurance is void. I know a lot if full timers come home anually for this.


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## Patty123 (Oct 4, 2010)

You cannot tax your vehicle unless you have a valid MOT.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

barryd said:


> So does anyone know what happens if you tax your van when abroad but just leave the disc on your doormat at home until you get back and drive home and stick it on?
> 
> PresumBly you could in theory be done for not displaying the new tax disk on your return home from Dover but presumably only if a traffic warden or policeman notices?


I have done this many times. The DVLA are not interested in whether or not you are displaying a tax disc( I have this in writing from them somewhere) as long as you have renewed it.So if you have renewed on-line from anywhere ,the ANPR cameras will show you as having valid road tax.Therefore you only risk being caught by Police or Warden ,how likely is that if you are just travelling fromthe ferry to home ?? and in any case you have a very good reason for not displaying.
Re MOT. In Spain it is not uncommon now for Police roadchecks on foreign reg vehicles to ask for MOT docs and to check UK road tax because of high volume of "illegal" non Spanish reg vehicles being kept there.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I know what you mean Barry. My insurance policy says my vehicle must be in a roadworthy condition, it does not require mot but I understand some do mention it.

Brian, I am interested to hear that Spanish Police are asking for UK road tax and UK mot, I wonder what charge they would expect to use if anyone didn't have them since as far as I know there is no Spanish law requiring either. Are there any documented cases you where people have been found guilty of something that perhaps you could refer us to please, Alan.


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## leseduts (Jun 3, 2008)

Just for information, if you SORN a vehicle you cannot retax it until 2 days before the date you wish the tax to start.


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*MOT certs abroad*

 Ciao Erneboy,
you would find (and probably know) that if your MOT is expired, your vehicle is not 'road legal' in the UK, country of origin. Ergo, not road legal in any other EU country either. Don't kid yourself that they (foreign traffic cops) don't know or care what an MOT certificate or tax disc is. I was stopped by 6 (yes 6) French motorcycle cops near St.Avold in France a few years ago, whilst bringing my old Bessacarr to the UK for its MOT and to try and sell it at NEC. They took great delight in pointing out to me that my MOT expired in a few days time; and I'd better cross the channel quick like. They couldn't of course find anything to charge me with and sent me on my way.
saluti,
eddied


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Eddie. 

I am sure that some Police in other countries know about UK tax and MOT, I was just wondering what French or Spanish law would be contravened by driving without either or both and if anyone who says they have experience of this could point us at some sources of reference to better inform us.

I have heard these stories too. I follow this topic on other web sites and the same stories crop up on those too but I have never seen any documented report to confirm that action has been taken.

Perhaps one of the legal bods on here will give us their opinion, Alan.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Because I have a very valid reason to resolve one of these issues, I have just re-read the DVLA advice about SORN.

While I agree with previous posters that one cannot SORN a vehicle if it is being permanently exported and one cannot legally drive it on the road if not taxed or SORNed, I cannot find anything prohibiting declaring a SORN for a vehicle which is in Europe and off the road.

Further, I went through the SORN on-line process (short of pressing the 'SORN Now' button) and there was no question about the location of the vehicle.

As far as driving back to the UK, DVLA state that it is illegal to drive a SORNed vehicle on the road, except to a pre-arranged MOT, with insurance. They do make any distinction on whether the 'road' is UK or otherwise.

It would appear that driving an untaxed UK vehicle, from off-road storage in Europe to a pre-arranged MOT in UK, is a UK legal exception, and that the vehicle is therefore legal in the UK, and therefore can be used in other EU countries, while driving to the pre-arranged test.

Dealing with Herr and Monsieur Plodd would need a copy of DVLA website, and a translation maybe? But that is the point of Erneyboy's question, what foreign law has one broken?

[Let us leave aside the question of the need to unSORN and re-tax before driving out of the MOT garage]

If I am wrong I am sure somebody will help me out, with chapter and verse please (not just an 'I think', while the coffee is brewing)

Or even better, can somebody confirm my interpretation?

Geoff


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Nicholsong,

On the narrow point concerning the uses of a vehicle that fall into a statutory exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty, which allows you to take your untaxed MH on the public road to and from a compulsory MoT examination or re-examination, this must be a specific arrangement at a set time on a set day. The exemption is restricted to vehicles solely used for the purpose for which the exemption is granted.

Therefore, while you are in France you can't just book a MoT test in (say) Devon or Yorkshire to allow you to complete the untaxed final stage of your trip home via Dover as part of your overall holiday or European trip. To remain within the exemption you would have to complete your trip home with the vehicle still taxed, and then arrange a specific trip to a MoT station. Otherwise, you would be guilty of the offence of using on a public road a vehicle for which a VED licence is not in force because the exemption does not apply.

If you falsely declare the vehicle SORNed while you use it abroad I think the DVLA would be also entitled to recover back-duty, but I am not entirely sure about this (that requires more research which I don't have time to carry out today).

Failing to fix and exhibit a valid VED licence while using or keeping a vehicle on a public road (whether you have paid the duty or not and regardless of your tax disk lying on your doormat at home awaiting your return) is a separate offence.

I don't have a chapter and verse answer to the question whether you commit an offence in other countries if you use an unlicenced (and/or expired MoT) UK-registered vehicle in those countries. I would be very surprised if this is considered legal by other countries.

SD


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

SD

Thank you for your reply.

You seem to think that I am trying to 'tour' illegally.

But maybe you did not read the detail: specifically that the vehicle would be stored off-road in Europe ( in our own yard) and would only be returning direct to the UK for a MOT ( which could be near Dover)

The EU have consolidated rules re type-certification but not MOT, or equivalent, or I would not be bothering to return the vehicle to the UK if a EU wide test were available.

Would you like to reconsider your opinion?

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Geoff and SD.

SD said, "I don't have a chapter and verse answer to the question whether you commit an offence in other countries if you use an unlicenced (and/or expired MoT) UK-registered vehicle in those countries. I would be very surprised if this is considered legal by other countries. "


Surely that is the crucial question? Alan.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

esperelda said:


> Dare I ask what you do if your MOT is due in the time you are planning to be away??


Have it MOT'd again before you go.

JohnW


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

erneboy said:


> I know what you mean Barry. My insurance policy says my vehicle must be in a roadworthy condition, it does not require mot but I understand some do mention it.
> 
> Brian, I am interested to hear that Spanish Police are asking for UK road tax and UK mot, I wonder what charge they would expect to use if anyone didn't have them since as far as I know there is no Spanish law requiring either. Are there any documented cases you where people have been found guilty of something that perhaps you could refer us to please, Alan.


Spanish police probably cannot bring any charge against a UK driver not having valid MOT or road Tax.However police in any country can take a vehicle off the road whether a foreign or national
one if they beleive it to be unroadworthy.Clearly a vehicle without a valid MOT is potentially unroadworthy.
In Spain because of the large volume of non Spanish registered vehicles ( Uk and others eg;German,Dutch,French) being kept on their roads "illegally" ie;for more than 6 months, no road tax in the country of origin and more importantly no MOT and also occasionally no insurance either,they sometimes conduct spot road checks where they ask the vehicle owner how long it has been in Spain and also check whether or not it has valid UK MOT and road tax.There have been reports in English language newspapers in Spain of purges by the police and Guardia Civil in some areas mainly on southern and eastern coasts,where they have impounded vehicles until the owners have them put on Spanish plates.I have no specific knowledge of this happening in the area that I reside at when in Spain but I do know of people who have been stopped specifically because they are in a non Spainsh reg vehicle and asked how long they have been in the country and asked to produce the relevant documents.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Brian. I am aware that Police may act if a vehicle has overstayed in their country, that is a separate issue.

Mot is not a guarantee of road worthiness, it is a UK legal requirement.

There is no reason why Police in another country should not ask the driver of a UK registered vehicle to show tax and MOT. The question is what, if anything, would they do if the vehicle was not taxed or mot'd.

If anyone can point to a recorded case where legal sanction was taken against a someone in a UK vehicle for not having tax or mot it might be enlightening for us all to read it, Alan.


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

erneboy said:


> Thanks Brian. I am aware that Police may act if a vehicle has overstayed in their country, that is a separate issue.
> 
> Mot is not a guarantee of road worthiness, it is a UK legal requirement.
> 
> ...


I have been around enough to know all that however as I said a vehicle without an MOT is potentially unroadworthy.
If you want more info on the Spanish situation why not contact "Sur in English" or " Euro Weekly" as they were 2 of the publications that have voiced opinion on this subject .


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## CliffyP (Dec 19, 2008)

I think you will find that any vehicle must be legal to drive in the country it is registered in. No MOT, on a sorn or untaxed vehicle on any road other than private would be illegal, and insurance invalid (not roadworthy). Also the offence is failing to display a valid tax disc, even if its taxed ( not sure if this still applies, but I think it does, but on the other hand most bobbies would no doubt turn a blind eye.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Being a law abiding citizen I was conscious that the tax ran out on the car while I was away for 7 weeks recently. I thought that I would do it on line as I usually do it. Trouble was the reminder with the ref. no. hadn’t arrived before I left.

Looked at the webpage, no worries I thought as it said that you could tax online using the log book no. I made a note of the log box no. 

Came the time, I logged in, duly entered the V5 no. it then said I needed the reg no. as well.  had to phone the neighbour to go round and check it   

Dick


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Brian, having been around you will also know that every vehicle is potentially unroadworthy.

I think I would rather rely on evidence, actual cases, rather than unsupported opinion in a commercial publication. 

As I said earlier I would be very grateful if anyone can provide a link to any source which gives details of a prosecution. In the absence of that I prefer the opinions of the legal bods on here.

I am afraid this is starting to look a bit like a gassing story, everybody has heard of it but no-one has experienced it, Alan.


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