# A little bit if good news



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Our daughter has just announced that she has a baby on the way 

I am so thrilled for her as she adores children. They have been trying for quite some time and had to go through at least three rounds of IVF but, bless the NHS, it has all been worth it.

Baby will arrive in mid April if all goes well. I am quite excited. Started knitting, which will surprise anyone who knows me! Daughter bought me a Beginners Crochet Course for my Birthday so that will be interesting to see if I am any better at that than I am at knitting 

Any Granny and Grandpa tips gratefully received! One big one that Chris and I have often discussed is whether to move closer to our daughter? Lots of Grandparents do, I know. We are about 3 hours away and, obviously, have the fiver to stay in when we get there. Our favourite little site has just closed and the next nearest has no wifi and no phone signal in the area. Normally that would not bother us but could be a nuisance in future.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Good news indeed, we enjoy our grandkids very much, they are a source of great joy and you can spoil them whereas you were more controlled with your own kids. :-D

One of our grandsons and his mum have lived with us for quite a while as his father is a waster, him and I butt heads a bit as he's now approaching teenage years, although he did bring a tear to my eye when in his last English task in primary school was to write a piece on the person who has been the greatest influence on his life. I was nominated with him giving various reasons, it's things like this that warm your heart and give you hope for the youngsters.

My best tip is to enjoy them and spoil them often, then hand them back to their parents, but be prepared for your daughter's interrogation as to why you didn't let her away with the things that you let slip with your grandchild.

Oh yeah, they say they also keep you young, but with my seven I'm not so sure. :-D :-D

Terry


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks Terry. Lots of people tell us that they absolutely love their grandchildren. There is one exception. A couple who live in our village have, between them, four children with several children each. We enquired how close they lived and were told that they lived "far enough away to not be nuisance but near enough for visits on our terms". They were both retired teachers and really were tired of managing children I think.
Chris is quite taken with their philosophy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Me too Pat. La Manche has been my savior. 
Sadly I feel grandkids get far too much attention and not enough education or discipline. 

Ray.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

patp said:


> Thanks Terry. Lots of people tell us that they absolutely love their grandchildren. There is one exception. A couple who live in our village have, between them, four children with several children each. We enquired how close they lived and were told that they lived "far enough away to not be nuisance but near enough for visits on our terms". They were both retired teachers and really were tired of managing children I think.
> Chris is quite taken with their philosophy


Go with the majority Pat, there's always one or two miserable sods.

As to Ray's comment, life's what you make it, we set the rules and guidelines that ensures our needs come first, we don't become a daycare facility, soft touches or child managers.

Set similar rules Pat and you'll find it an enriching and enjoyable experience.

Don't listen to the baa humbug merchants.

Terry


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Congratulations Pat to you both and your daughter

Delighted for you 

Moving house would seem a bit drastic to me especially as you have only just finished yours 

And three hours isn’t that far in the scheme of things 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Ray, I am pretty certain that our daughter will follow in our footsteps and instil discipline into her children. She would always be under strict instructions, as a child, to "listen to Nanny and Grandad, be polite and do as they say". She was loved by her Grandparents. So much so that my Sister in Law accused my parents of favouritism over her daughter, my niece. My Sister in Law brought my niece up to believe that she was "entitled". This meant that my niece felt deprived when told, by her grandparents, not to switch on the TV without asking first and to wait until after dinner before eating a treat etc. Like so many of her generation, my niece is not happy. She blames her exam failure on the education system rather than her lack of study and every boss she works for is, according to her, "useless".

Our son in law seems to have been brought up with the same values as we used. Only time will tell and I am sure we will disagree with some aspects of their child rearing but on the whole I am looking forward to the experience.

Our daughter is a community paediatric physiotherapist and so sees, first hand, the results of bad parenting.

Terry and Sandra thank you for the kind words. I am a little bit excited


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm not denying I'm a miserable sod Terry. It's what keeps me happy Meldrew style.

I will be on the ferry next week and have recollections of nearly every previous trips where gangs of youngish kids wreak havoc on board and need putting in the broom cupboard.
Running hell for leather barging into anyone in their path. Screaming at the tops of their little lungs in the recliner lounges and even the reserved lounge. Jumping from seat to seat and if any parent of guardian dare try and instill some order, the further noise and screams make them wonder why they bothered.

Of course everyone will say "Oh no not our Cherubs" in unison. But often I note many parents are blissfully unaware of their charges antics. You can hear the unruly ones across many a supermarket. Maybe they are only tuned into my hearing aids?

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It is pure laziness, Ray. A whole generation grew up believing they were entitled to be lazy. It is too much effort to instil discipline. I was listening to some young mums moaning about their toddlers antics the other day. They were all reacting to the bad behaviour instead of anticipating it and heading it off at the pass! Talk to them, engage with them! No it is all too much effort. I worked with a young mum who's only hobby, with her young kids, was to take them to the shopping mall and buy them stuff.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Eggzackery Pat.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> I'm not denying I'm a miserable sod Terry. It's what keeps me happy Meldrew style.
> 
> I will be on the ferry next week and have recollections of nearly every previous trips where gangs of youngish kids wreak havoc on board and need putting in the broom cupboard.
> Running hell for leather barging into anyone in their path. Screaming at the tops of their little lungs in the recliner lounges and even the reserved lounge. Jumping from seat to seat and if any parent of guardian dare try and instill some order, the further noise and screams make them wonder why they bothered.
> ...


I have experienced the same.

As it happened I had booked into the 'Premium Lounge' or whatever DFDS call it, on DRK-DVR in July so school holidays. The Lounge was 1/2 full but only 2 children, who were well-behaved.

When I went outside to the 'Public Area' it was Bedlam - just as you described. In fact there were not enough seats for everyone and people were sitting on the stairs.

When returning DVR-DRK first week of Sept with Basia I booked the Lounge again although the ship was nearly empty.

We will continue to book that again - if we ever go to UK again, doubtful now. Well worth £12pp for the 2 hour crossing with glass of wine and free coffee, juices, biscuits etc. and a clean toilet in the lounge.

As regarding children and grandchildren in general, I am glad I did not get involved, although Basia's Son and now 3 G/children live below but seem to be under control, unlike the dog.

Geoff


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

raynipper said:


> I'm not denying I'm a miserable sod Terry.
> 
> Ray.


What you Ray ? ........






Terry


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

So happy for you Pat! I love my 3 grandchildren and get great joy from being with them. But I don't get involved in regular childcare. Having said that, I've just committed to picking my granddaughter up from school 1 day a week after I get back, till Christmas. But that will be lovely as I have missed our times together.

I'm not sure about moving house. They would be the sole focus of your new life whereas you would be only a small part of theirs - unless you were, indeed, providing childcare. 

My grandson lives about 3hrs from me and I don't see him as often as I'd like. Up until now he's been fairly free to come and visit but as he gets more involved in activities at home I can see that declining.

My son has a saying "My house, my rules" when I commented on their new puppy at the time being allowed on the furniture. So I use the same rule at mine, regarding both dogs and children! Works well!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

dghr272 said:


> What you Ray ? ........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely Terry. If you can't beat em join em.

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Yep that works well Jean

Not-so sure about dogs 

Winston is allowed on furniture, shadow never has been

But then again he’s three times the size winston

And is winston allowed on my furniture ?

Well he is because I don’t have the energy to retrain him 

Read for that I can’t be bothered 

But grandkids 

Well I’m a bit Ray and a bit Terry 

The first three lived with me or close enough for me to be really involved in their daily life 

Almost as close as your own kids 

And to this day they pass through our lives and claim this house as their home 

They are delightful
But all their problems also belong 

The middle ones well we see frequently ,they shared weekends , we looked after them on certain days in school holidays 

The later ones , well we see always with their parents

And now we have Archer, at one year 

He needs someone to help out 

But that is his mums mum , in her early 50 s

The same age I was when our first , meg was born 

I could now maybe lift him since my steroid injection 

But do you know I’m not going to bother 

I’m a different grandma 

I’ll feed and welcome him 

With family present 

But you will be a a new first time grandma

And it’s brilliant , and she/he will grow and stay with you

And like ours

You will never get rid of her/his problems 

You will feel obliged to solve them I guess like us 

All in all it’s great

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, it seems that most people enjoy their grandchildren.
I am in conflict at the moment. I did not have a good relationship with my mother. She saw a daughter as her personal servant while her sons, particularly her first born, as special.
This reflects on my relationship with my daughter. I was very strict about not treating her like a servant while making sure that she knew to help out when needed. She has grown into an amazing independent woman of whom I am very proud. Whilst I encouraged her independence I am now suffering from it. 
Every approach I make has to be run by her husband. If I offer to buy her something (a nursing chair) my son in law has to be consulted. He does not like the look of it so they go off to look for one that he does like! I have not heard any more.

Between my daughter's independent streak, and her husband's desire to have a say in absolutely everything, I am starting to feel a little marginalised. This is fine, of course, with their marriage but worrying if it carries on with a new grandchild. Son in law's brother has two young children and his mother, a lovely lady, was not trusted to be in charge of the baby out of their sight so it may be a family trait to be a little "controlling"?

Hey ho, I am sure it will all be fine in the end and we will muddle our way through. Hopefully son in law will have seen the pain caused to his mother by her other son and be a little more relaxed than he was. Incidentally, when his brother's second child came along they suddenly found that his grandma was trustworthy!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Families?


Who would have them?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Like everything in life having a family has for's and against's.
Sometimes I am glad other times sad we had no children, but there wasn't a choice.

May I say Pat, not to worry about your daughter and her husband's behaviour in choice of what goes in the house , I know Hans would have been the same, but he didn't control me.😀


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Yeah you are right. My daughter can hold her own if she needs to  And he has saved me a few quid!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> Like everything in life having a family has for's and against's.
> Sometimes I am glad other times sad we had no children, but there wasn't a choice.
> 
> May I say Pat, not to worry about your daughter and her husband's behaviour in choice of what goes in the house , I know Hans would have been the same, but he didn't control me.😀


Jan

When I used the word 'family' I was not thinking only about children.

I acquired 4 generations, none of which are blood related. My blood relatives are all dead.

Geoff


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Jan
> 
> When I used the word 'family' I was not thinking only about children.
> 
> ...


My post wasn't referring to what you said Geoff, only keeping in with the thread itself I thought, sorry if I gave that impression, I know you have no blood family.
It must be nice in your place at Christmas though. :grin2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sad in one way, Geoff but a blessing others  Mind you my sister in law is an acquired taste. We used to share her around at family gatherings. It was agreed beforehand that no one should have to sit next to her all night! Her husband never did. She monopolised the conversation and made it impossible for any one of us to join in the general jollities. They have been married for nearly fifty years and he has got her trained to at least not interrupt him all the time


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

It'll Al work out Pat. It may not be as smooth as you'd like but once the wee one is here then relationships can be conducted thro them.

That was my experience, anyway, with my MIL. My husband found her difficult and I did too. She was quite domineering but mellowed a lot after we'd children. 

Mind you, that was after a VERY difficult situation your nursing chair reminded me of. They were buying the cot, and at the time there was a lot of talk about cot deaths (with good reason) so I was very keen to have a visi-vent mattress but didn't want to ask for one and maybe cause extra expense. 

So I phoned Mothercare to say, if it doesn't include a visi-vent mattress, can I pay the extra? And don't breathe a word to my MIL. 

Next thing I knew, Mothercare had phoned MIL, given the impression I didn't think her gift was good enough and all hell was let loose.... Not a pleasant memory, even now.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Let me tell you 

Your grandchild will be a magnificent addition to your life 

All the difficulty’s ignore 

You are are crap grandma? no I like that word, t me it merely means not as expected 

Your kids you love but . .....

You will feel had you known what grandkids were like , you would have had them first

Yes a bit of juggling here and there 

But remember these are people in their own right and will eventually judge you according to them and you 

Not their parents relationship with you 

Having just hugged two and sent them on their way 

I know they will be back 

To worry, thrill, and to let me know just as I love them

THEY LOVE ME 

priceless 

Sandra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> My post wasn't referring to what you said Geoff, only keeping in with the thread itself I thought, sorry if I gave that impression, I know you have no blood family.
> *It must be nice in your place at Christmas though*. :grin2:


That is nearly 2 months away so keep quiet you 'evil witch'

[Following your Navajo saga but will only comment when specifics are known]


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Is that not off topic Geoff??

Not that it would bother me as a general rule , as you know I’m often off topic 0

But now I watch like a hawk just to know it isn’t only me >

Maybe it’s only me that is criticised publicly for it ?

However back to topic 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Oh Jean! For that very reason, I have backed off the nursing chair. All has gone very quiet and my assumption is that the two of them can't agree so it has been dropped as a subject. I won't bring it up again unless they do.
I must admit that I did not like my mother interfering but then she was a crap mother. I do so hope I am better than she was. I tend to bend too far the other way and keep right out of their lives so must look to try the middle ground a bit. They have moaned to us about the other mother in law who buys things for them constantly so it is unusual for me to even offer. Besides the earn shed loads of money compared to us so it is not as if they cannot afford to buy exactly what they want.

Sandra, apart from these little niggles, I have to say that "excited" is an understatement.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Don’t let these worries niggle you Pat

We all know how easy it is to imagine problems that don’t exist 

Save your money for the baby , ask what if anything they would like you to buy in the way of nursery equipment 

And if they say nothing don’t imagine they are rejecting your offer

They may feel as you point out that they earn more than you and should buy their own anyway 

Don’t underestimate the power of a pair of new born lungs and the uncertainty of new motherhood to draw mother and daughter closer

Just be there for her when she needs you

Now will they find out if it’s a boy or girl as so many seem to do now ?

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

aldra said:


> Don't underestimate the power of a pair of new born lungs and the uncertainty of new motherhood to draw mother and daughter closer
> 
> Just be there for her when she needs you
> 
> Sandra


That made me laugh but it's oh, so true!!


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Daughter does not want to know the sex. Son in law wants to know. We will see who wins. i did hear of a couple where one was told and managed to keep it secret from the other.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Again not your problem 

A boy a girl 

Makes no difference

Except 

I find myself looking at dolls, as Christmas comes 

Those days long ago 

I’ve told my newly teenage granddaughter who wants money, that I’m buying her a doll

To please me

Yes she said grandma 

Strutting her stuff 

But you won’t will you ?

And of course I won’t 

But how I wish I could recapture those days , fast fleeting 

When I could

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

And will it be PC to buy a girl a doll or a boy a car, Sandra? I am sure my daughter will not give a damn about all that nonsense. When she was growing up we had lots of animals from dogs and cats to horses, pigs and goats. She was expected to just put her wellies on and muck in. She had dolls but she also had lego and a toy farm.
I used the Lego to teach her a valuable lesson. She was pestering, around Christmas time, to have one of the awful plastic castle toys that were around at that time. I sat her down and asked her what her favourite toy was. She replied, as I knew she would, that it was Lego. I then asked her if she had ever seen Lego on a tv advert. "No" was her reply. I then told her that the reason for that was that Lego was brilliant and did not need to be advertised while the plastic castle was rubbish and did.
Mind you, although Lego wasn't advertised in those days, I used to tell her that ITV was "broken" so that she was not bombarded with adverts


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

The lies Mums tell!!!!


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Mine always had Lego 

Young Albert had a dolls house we bought for him which he loved 

Now at 6ft 4 1/2 inches we don’t remind him 

There was never a problem in our house, too many kids so toys of all nature available 

Boys girls made no difference 

Except as I remember , our youngest was into taking everything apart whether it was his or not ,to see how it worked

And never was able to put them back together again

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

aldra said:


> Except as I remember , our youngest was into taking everything apart whether it was his or not ,to see how it worked
> 
> And never was able to put them back together again
> 
> Sandra


What does he do for a living now Sandra?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

My eldest brother always dismantled things or found alternative uses for them. He and my other brother used my doll's cot as a goal for their football practice!

I am sure he would have been an engineer if left to decide for himself but he got sent to a Grammar School and was like a fish out of water there. He went into office work and was never really happy. In his spare time he took engines out of cars and fixed them. He is still doing bits of engineering to this day.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

He’s a deputy Prison Governor Jean

His degree was in computers, but I think even then he preferred taking websites apart

He is very hands on orientated though, has converted a van into a camper and is at present extending his house

Maybe it’s just the demolishing bit he truely likes 

But with his new partner they now have four kids , so needs must 

And I think for our Izzy , our adopted alcohol damaged grand daughter

The transfer from only child has made such a positive difference 

Although the birth of Acher, her new brother has her completely besotted with him 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Slightly off topic Pat

But I feel safe with you two 

And I’m not going to start a thread about our Izzy 

Of course we worry as she enters her teenage years 

As we worry about all our grandkids 

But I’m proud of my son and the dad he is to her

And I’m proud of her, my granddaughter 

Couldn’t have happened to a better person than me, in that no one adopted me , I mean

I’m sure loads out there would be better 

But I’m the one who got her 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

What does alcohol damage in a child manifest itself as Sandra.

I just wonder because we were discussing all the rules and regulations around eating and drinking during pregnancy now in relation to how our parents behaved. My mother liked a drink and she smoked. It was the norm in those days of course. With my middle brother she tells the story that she tried to abort him and that was often done with the use of Gin. He did turn out a little different to my eldest brother and me. We often used to call him "the milkman's child"


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

patp said:


> What does alcohol damage in a child manifest itself as Sandra.


No absolute symptom but it most certainly has a wide and varied spectrum.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/foetal-alcohol-syndrome/

Terry


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

We all drank in pregnancy in the “ old “ days

With Izzy we talking an alcoholic mother 

Usually the children damaged in the womb are incomplete in intellectual and emotional development

She’s fourteen, but intellectually functions at about Eight , emotionally much the same 

She doesn’t understand nuisances 

She learns responses but doesn’t really understand why

Shes very open to bullying , but quite able to bully , because she gets aggressive in response 

She loves, but often one way, and it’s fragile if challenged 

Because she doesn’t really understand the other persons emotional involvement in her

She loves me and Albert because of historical attachment

She’s always safe here , and has been since a baby

She’s far more demanding with her dad , he has to respond, and he needs to find a way where he is not constantly meeting her demands but constantly prove he loves her, always will

And he will because he adores her 

She has great difficulty between fact and fiction , and can build a hugely erroneous story around it 

In short she’s Izzy 

Well loved by our family 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

My brother may have some mild symptoms then. But I suppose most of us could? He had very challenging behaviour as a child but then he was a middle child  He is a high achiever now so not sure how that fits in.
At least I can now blame my poor mathematic ability on my mother


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think we all have mild symptoms

Alcohol damaged or not

We are damaged by life experiences 

But the good news is we can easily overcome them

Those damaged differently have a greater problem to overcome 

Our Izzy is damaged by another’s negligence which resulted in a physical/ mental damage 

It’s not the same 

This girl has a mountain to climb 

And even then it will never make her “normal”

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

True as Jean says what is normal ?

Sadly society determines that 

And I’m not sure how this girl of mine will fit into society 

At the moment she’s protected by us her family 

But I know we can’t protect her for ever 

She’ll go her own way eventually 

As any child will

But will she have the necessary skills ?

But she has an amazing dad, our son 

Who really worships the ground she walks on 

And I, never adopted as a child , forced to life in children’s homes 

Have been given a second chance , with our Izzy 

My kids, grandkids are mine

But she had the chance I never had

But I got it with her

Our child adopted her

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

But hey 

We are talking about your grandchild 

Him or her 

And let me tell you

Nothing will eclipse that 

The saying that if I’d known about grandkids

I’d have had them first 

So true

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

All uncharted territory, Sandra. I am sure that I will love the experience.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

You will Pat

Sandra


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