# Help needed with aquarium



## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi

my son is considering setting up a marine aquarium and any hints, tips etc would be greatly appreciated.

I have about 25 years experience of keeping tropical fish (got a really nice set up now) but I have NO experience of a marine tank.

So need to know stuff like:

How do you get the salt content of the water right

How do you get the bacteria into the water

What temp should the water be

Which fish are community and fairly easy to keep

Which fish are a no no in terms of agression and being susceptible to white spot and other diseases

Are there any fish which are particularly hardy and are good to put in completely new tank.

Sand or gravel for the bottom? I wanted to put sand in my tropical tank but decided against it because I suspected it might be harder to keep clean than gravel, is it the same with marine tanks.

Does a marine tank need a cat fish type to keep the bottom clean.

I think thats about it for now

Thanks in anticipation

Jacqui


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## DiscoDave (Aug 25, 2008)

Oooh aquariums i know about these, then I read the marine bit. :? 

so i'll be quiet because you'll have already said what my thoughts are  

All the best with it, they look brilliant when they are going!


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

My thoughts exactly Dave...I've got 3 freshwater tanks but marine's always scared me...


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Mum and Dad used to have one a while ago, and it was lovely. Probably what made me take up Scuba diving  Sitting at about 7m in the Red Sea, feeling the warmth of the sun and immersed in the most amazing wildlife is truly wonderful.

I can't remember enough to answer most of your queries, but;

Cleaner shrimps keep things tidy rather than sucker fish. A Mandarin fish seemed quite durable, but a pair of cowfish were the cutest 

I think you have to decide wether to keep fish or coral/invertebrates. The fish produce more waste so need a similar filtration system to tropical tanks, but more fragile things will be battered with anything other than a really gentle current. A few shrimp, a cleaner wrasse and clown fish types with coral, anemones etc look nice, but more fish than that and maybe you need a tank for each environment 

The limit on how many fish per unit surface area is a lot smaller, and when they had one the fish were about ten times more expensive compared to tropical. Fish bred in captivity are what I would go for, transporting wild caught ones half way round the world is stupid IMHO.

Especially when, in my parents case, the hobby provided a continual variety of species, they died quite quickly, hence my durable comment 

If I had one, and I will at some point, there are companies who will manage your tank, small cost, zero hassle, no dead little cow fish 

RIP Tate and Lyle


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## randonneur (Jan 25, 2007)

We used to have an aquarium many years ago and did think about marine fish but after many conversations with the Aquatic centre decided against it at that time. You need to have a very good Aquatic Centre (not a pet shop) that you can go to for advice. They will also test your tank water before you buy your fish. The tank has to be setup and tested first when it has settled. These marine tanks needs a lot of care and attention and if you haven't got a lot of time I wouldn't bother, it is not a case of setting it up and then leaving it. They are very beautiful though when done right.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Same here, have kept freshwater tropical for 40+ years on and off and have looked at marine with real envy. 

BUT the points you raised are serious ones to consider and the cost of marine fish etc. is much higher than freshwater! 8O

Having spent a considerable amount of time diving on coral reefs in Bermuda, the Red Sea, the Gulf and the Indian Ocean I would LOVE to have a decent sized marine tank in my house, but I don't think it is going to happen for the reasons you state! 

I strongly suspect that sites such as this one;

http://www.justmarine.co.uk/beginners_guide_to_marines

give excellent advice and it seems very straightforward, e.g add fish when ammonia level = 0, add only one fish at a time, add bacteria etc when level rises and so on, but there is a great deal of checking to do. 8O

I wish I had the courage to go ahead and try it but I can see it all ending in an expensive disaster! Things like salt levels and pH are critically important and cannot be allowed to fluctuate. And there lies the responsibility as you suggested! :?

Dave


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

I used to have tropical freshwater setups and often mused over a proper marine aquarium, but I'm advised that the term 'money pit' is very apt 

now I've got a couple of dogs instead and they're far more fun


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

A marine aquarium is cheaper than diving though


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

grizzlyj said:


> A marine aquarium is cheaper than diving though


Definitely in terms of time and money!

I used to spend an entire weekend for perhaps 2 x 20 minute dives! 8O  

But when you get asked to go to such places as Kenya, Saudi or Bermuda to teach people how to teach diving it becomes an excellent way to spend time! 

The memories are fantastic! 

Dave


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

I have been thinking about an Orca Nana

This is quite a good guide to setting up much of which would no doubt apply to other set ups as well.

Good Luck


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I had tropical fish for years and did try a marine tank some 20 years ago.
I kept at it for about 12 months but felt sorry for all the fish that I lost.
Now our fish are in two ponds.

you need to visit and talk at length to a marine fish outlet.
Read as much info as you can.

Best of luck and don`t forget to post the piccys.

Dave p

try this
www.saltaquarium.about.com/od/.../sbsaquariumsetupin10steps.htm


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Thank you all for your replies. 

He has wanted to set up a marine tank for quite a long time now, I have pointed out to him that it is an expensive hobby. We went to a local aquatic centre a couple of weeks ago and he wanted me to buy some blue discus fish, but I refused to pay £20 for a fish, cos I would be gutted if it died, but as I am not paying for the marine tank or the fish I can't use that arugment with him.

He currently keeps Water Dragons and Desert Iguana's, he has had these for about 4 years but has decided that he would like to change, I think me moaning about the crickets escaping may have something to do with it :roll: , plus the female water dragon died on Monday, she laid eggs recently which were all infertile and has gone downhill ever since, vet diagnosed post natal depression and she wouldn't eat, son tried syringing food down her throat but to no avail.

I will put pics on here when the tank is set up, although the reptiles and their "vivs" have to go first, hopefully when he comes home from his hols he will sort out getting them up for sale.

We do have a very good aqauatic centre about 30 minutes drive away called Woodthorpe Aquatics where they have marine tanks set up, but I feel that though they give good advice its always good to talk to other people who have kept marine fish.

Regards

Jacqui


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

grizzlyj said:


> A marine aquarium is cheaper than diving though


Ah but once you have seen it for real, a poxy fish tank is not enough!..

The lad wants to get himself along to the local dive club and learn to dive, then he doesn't have to bother with the Ph, cleaning the crap out, and the specific density of the salt water.

Its all done for free by nature, and as a plus there are big bitey fish as well as the little stripy ones .

A clip from the Red Sea with Sandra and me diving the "Thistlegorm" a wreck that went down in the Second World War. I feel I have to warn you Sandra is a trained waver but it is not unlike the ones you do in your motor homes.. :lol:


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## Marrabone (Apr 8, 2010)

My daughter has had a marine tank for over 4 years. Despite studying lots of books on the subject prior to setting up, she is constantly battling to keep the water 'balanced'. A chunk of her weekend is spent on traveling a 35 mile round trip to collect R/O water (at ? price per litre) which then has to be heated to the right temperature and aerated for a couple of days before it can be used, thus cluttering up a downstairs room.

She spends a fortune on chemicals for various things, each one solves one problem whilst upsetting the balance of something else, even though she has expert advice from a specialist supplier. She is very limited to how many fish she can keep and has found that one or two are very shy and only pop out from behind a rock when food is added. She has lost no end of crabs and snails as these are the first to suffer when there is an imbalance in the water. The only anemones she can keep are fairly boring brown ones as the brightly coloured ones cost a fortune and are the most difficult to keep.

Bear in mind that the water evaporates quite quickly especially in the summer (when you will also need to find a way of keeping the water cool enough). When that happens the water becomes more salty and the balance has to be restored.

I am not an expert, l can only relate what she has told me, but l do know that you will need deep pockets and an awful lot of patience and knowledge. That said, people do keep marine fish and maybe get a kick out of the challenge but bearing in mind the high set up and running costs, l would say this needs serious consideration.


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks Marrabone I will show him your post. I suggested to him that he got a tropical aquarium (I know about those) and have different fish, he likes the Parrot fish, Discus and Angel Fish. 

He wanted me to have angel fish, but as I told him I would like to keep the fish I already have and the tank is quite peaceful at the moment, I have a ruby fin shark who chases the others, but only in the morning, and he chases everyone so there isn't one who gets targetted, and he gets fed up before the rest of the fish do.

I think the marine tanks look fab, but I am a realist and don't have the time a marine tank takes.

Regards

Jacqui


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm surprised that despite more of a technical input these days compared to 25 years ago when my parents had one, fish still die. At that time it was mostly me who would maybe take out 20% (10% is recommended I think) and refill it with Essex water straight from the tap having bunged in some of the salt mix till the salinity is correct. Definitely no water cooling in the summer! The food was frozen, and often put in the tank without defrosting 8O 

Most fish would last at least a few months, some years. Shrimp were fine. Today seems more hassle but not much gain?

Thats why I suggested getting a company to manage one. A friend who does that has zero fatalities, zero fuss, not much cost


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

We kept both freshwater and marine tropicals for a many years and in the early 1970s I was involved with an aquatic business which imported marine fish (and it was pioneering stuff in those days I can tell you).
I really love marine fish and reef environments but I learned one thing above all else through attempting to keep them - they always die - usually sooner rather than later.

It doesn't matter how carefully you keep them, how expert you are or how much money and technology you throw at them - they still die eventually, usually in a sudden and catastrophic event.

With this in mind I'm not really sure any more whether it's ethically acceptable to keep marines except in a professional environment where water conditions can be kept stable due to the high volume of water in the system.

Stick to freshwater tropicals is my advice, they can be just as beautiful and rewarding whilst being ethically more sustainable and considerably easier on the pocket.

Sorry to be a wet sponge but you did ask.


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

I had one a long while ago, everything set up nicely, living rock, corals, ferns, fish, crabs and invertibrates, cost me a fortune, Mrs decided to use that shake n vac stuff, everything dead within 10 mins, be careful what you use in the house if you get a marine tank, no fly sprays, air fresheners (sprays) and certainly no shake n vac


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## beagle (Sep 25, 2005)

We has one for years until we moved house and as the tank was built in to a wall we left it, having taken everything back to the dealers. I found a protein skimmer good for keeping the water clean and we had just a couple of fish in a 5 foot tank. Loved watching the weird beauty of sea cucumbers, polyp colonies and dancing shrimps. Scariest bit was when we accidentally introduced a mantis shrimp with a bit of living rock. They kill their prey weith a pulse of water that's easily powerful enough to break a tank! We could here the thing produce the occasional sound like a gunshot, took us ages to catch it. 

I wouldn't do it again though, because my concience says it's wrong to break off bits of live coral and sell it. The environment is far too precious and I couldn't live with hastening its decline. Most marine fish are wild caught as hardly any have bred in captivity. So it's tropicals for me now.


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## Paludic (Apr 17, 2007)

We had a 100 gal tank (6ft long) and after loads of investigations settled on Dicscus with a shoal of 40+ cardinal tetra. 
We had a mature settled tank for over 6yrs, and this was quite enough work - with R/O water, hoovering sand, etc to keep them happy/alive/thriving.

Compared to marine, I'd say just as colourful, more fish in the same space - so more to enjoy. As to group of young (and growing) Discus and shoal of cardinals, plenty of natural interactive behaviour to watch! Oh, and a few corydoras to clean the substrate

Plenty of maintenance to do to keep tank crystal clean - and a lot of people in the aquarium world said it was a good "introduction" for a marine tank.... especially on the associated work load.

Definately buy own R/O equipment, water butt to store, + pump to move it back to aquarium (which was upstairs). 

If either of you are cautious about spending money on discus fish - then this could easily be a source of long term friction if regular greater amounts of dosh are to be spent on marines.... after all we can all only spend the money once...  

Either way, enjoy!!
Sally


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

thanks everyone for your replies, and this time the power of the forum has worked on him, you have done what I previously have failed to do on several occasions (make him see sense), but then I am only his Mother and know NOTHING! 

After reading all your replies and considering them all, he has decided to stick with tropical HOORAY!!

Thank you again

Jacqui


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

Wise choice in my opinion unless he has money to burn 
Why not settle on one variety and breed them, its challenging to get the right conditions for the fish (unless you breed something easy like Guppies, molly's etc) and can be quite rewarding, I have made a few quid with discus, angels, gouramis and beta's (splendens and macrostomas) but you need a lot of tanks for the latter unless you can sell them quickly, one I tried for a couple of years and had no joy was the clown loaches


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Not sure he would go for breeding them, it will be his first tank. 

I have just bought a larger tank, and my son has realised that they are quite relaxing to sit and watch, though he has very definite ideas about what sort of fish he wants. I used to have guppies which bred quite regularly, however a couple of years ago I 

Regards


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

Every tank should have a dozen Guppies in, good supply of fresh food,
Its nature before anyone says owt


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## JLO (Sep 27, 2006)

Just read my last post, I got up to answer the phone halfway through writing it and obviously sent it half done, and now I have no idea what I was going to say, oh well, that's what comes with getting older :lol:


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