# I need advice on what is necessary in an aire



## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

On Saturday I had a meeting with the future new mayor of Torrevieja and also the chief accountant and the council secretary. They have agreed to provide an aire in Torrevieja but asked if I will explain how they are used and advise them what is best. So I am thinking free to park , to take 30 - 40 vans, with a borne for water and cassette disposal but with a nominal charge of maybe 3€ for the borne so we can keep the area clean and maintained, near to the sea, and with regular police patrols including night time. Is it necessary to have electric? Should I suggest that there is no time limit on staying? I will suggest we can use roll out awnings and sit outside. Torrevieja is a town that has grown from 16000 inhabitants to 160,000 (with double that again in the summer)in the last 20 years but is welcoming to fresh ideas. Edwardo Dolon the new mayor to be is 35 yrs old easy to talk to, forward thinking and is ready to make his mark and i'm quite excited that MHF members are the ones to be advising . So please feel free to give me your views on this. Many new aires in Spain are private and chargeable and of course this one can be the same but I want people to come and see what Torrevieja has to offer but without paying heavily to do so. This town has super facilities but most people dont know of them. I will change that. I now long forward to all the advise I expect to get and will advise the council based on what appears to be the most popular way to go.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Anything is better than nothing Ken. Get what you can but what's fair is fair. Build it and they will come! 

:lol: :lol:

8€ with 6amp electric , fresh water & waste disposal?
7 day stay limit, would anyone stay longer when there's so much more to see? longer stays if not preventing newcomers.

By all means put the price up if it is oversubscribed? it's a jungle out there.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*anything*

As mentioned, anything is better than nothing.

Good signposting
EHU Not really a requirement and may be expensive to install and maintain
Good Police Patrols
Max Limit I would say 3 days in high season, maybe 7 nights in low
a bourne or water/waste at each end.

Thanks Ken.

TM


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## p-c (Oct 27, 2007)

Wow, what a great man you are. We are really lucky to have someone like you on the spot.

My own feelings are;
Possible charge, not excessive maybe 5euro, to park means that someone could call around daily to collect monies.
Restricted to three nights, or so, this could be checked by the person above.
No electricity as it encourages too long a stay!
Possible no charge for the fresh water and free cassette waste disposal.
Go for the safety aspect and suggest a minimum distance between 'vans, that should allow for a few seats and some awning. How will you cope with LHD and RHD vehicles?.
Clean with regular police patrols would be great and near the sea essential.

Why the restrictions above, it will stop people putting roots down, overstaying and stopping others enjoying your town.

I'm sorry, I know this will upset some and I would possible find it (have found it) inconvenient but lets think of all of us rather than just ourselves.

p-c


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Yes I agree for me electric is not a first consideration at all but for the girlie's hardriers and the Fridge's beer :wink: 
Priority would be safety/security


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## EEVpilot (Aug 15, 2010)

Any reasonable fee is acceptable if the site is maintained and has water and disposal facilities. 
A limit on the length of stay is essential and should be enforced to ensure spaces are likely to be available daily. If this isn't done it will not be an Aire but a cheap camp site open to abuse by a few thoughtless individuals.
Allowing longer stays off season, especially in winter is a good idea as MH owners will be encouraged to stay and help boost the economies of Spanish towns.
Electricity is useful as it saves gas.........as well as keeping the beer cold!!!

John


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## p-c (Oct 27, 2007)

Ok Ok I didn't think about the beer. Or the other halfs hair.

p-c


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*hair*



p-c said:


> Ok Ok I didn't think about the beer. Or the other halfs hair.
> 
> p-c


35w hair irons run on pure sine wave inverter
otherwise curlers!

Beer can spend 30 mons in ice box/freezer - run on gas

TM


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Can we have one of those HUGE cardboard cutout stylee black bulls in the background? preferably on a hill :wink:


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## p-c (Oct 27, 2007)

I agree with the bull image as long as it stays on the hill. What wonderful advertising and character they are.

Seriously though, I may raise in another tread, how do I get to sunny Spain with a car towed behind my 'van.

p-c


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## TickTok (Aug 27, 2010)

Any Aire would be welcome as long as it is secure.

For what it's worth I think 5 to 8 euro.

Max 3 nights stay. Aires are for stop overs not holiday camps.

No need for electric. We all have batteries and gas for short stops

Fresh water

Waste disposal


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## 96706 (Nov 13, 2005)

Max 3 night stops.
Drinking water tap
Waste (grey and black) disposal & if poss a separate tap for cassette so people don't stick the drinking water tap in their loos 8O 
5-8 Euros p.n
Flat ground.
Rubbish bin which is regularly emptied.
A map of the town

EHU points lovely but not essential.

Mrs D


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Marked bays, 3 days max, definitely no electric, charge to park and charge for the bourne, total about Eu5 but not more that Eu8. Definitely some form of security in Torrevieja! 

peedee


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Torrevieja aire*

 Good news, you should try and get this new mayor to fund you a fact finding mission to Italy. There are some good well plann ed municipal aree di sosta in San Gemini, Loreto, Gubbio, Barga, to name a few. Oh, and Verona.
All have black waste disposal, grey waste disposal, fresh water hook up point, waste bins for general/recyclable waste, and coin operated EHU points. Maximum stay 72 hours. Costs vary, but generally 8/10 Euros for 24 hours, which is fair enough. Electric - you usually get 2 hours for 50 cents. Useful for batteries, a bit of TV or video, or hair drying. What is needed to set up an area di sosta or aire is talked about on www.camperonline.it
saluti,
eddied


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Aire Torrevieja*

Hi 
What a fantastic proposal go for it.

Limited stay 3days
Black grey water disposal
Drinking Water
Allocated spaces (white lined)
There has to be a charge 8€ is reasonable
Need to take at least 30 vans
Pretty much on the French Aires set up.

Good luck C7


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

EEVpilot said:


> Any reasonable fee is acceptable if the site is maintained and has water and disposal facilities.
> A limit on the length of stay is essential and should be enforced to ensure spaces are likely to be available daily. If this isn't done it will not be an Aire but a cheap camp site open to abuse by a few thoughtless individuals.
> Allowing longer stays off season, especially in winter is a good idea as MH owners will be encouraged to stay and help boost the economies of Spanish towns.
> Electricity is useful as it saves gas.........as well as keeping the beer cold!!!
> ...


Hi John and the OP

I agree with most of what is stated above.

A reasonable fee is fine for a looked after Aire. If it is free you will have selfish individuals hogging it.

There are lots of motorhomes in Southern Spain over-wintering off sites. These people would tend to monopolise a site for extended periods if the stay was not strictly limited. I saw a recent post from someone asking about staying for a month on a Mercadona supermarket car park in Torry.

Pay barriers are a good way to control access, either when you go on or when you leave the site. We have seen a female attendant shouted at and intimidated by an overstayer on a Frencn aire(French I might add).

Drinking water is scarce in Spain, so a metered supply is essential. A drive through dump point is also essential to cater for the different locations of outlets on vans.

Electricity in bournes is meant to assist foul pumping operations and for a quick charge not for permanent connection of fridges etc. I have seen too many bournes with one point with free electricity monopolised by users and multi adaptors being used. Electricity costs money so this should also be metered.

Long stay campsites in this area of Spain are as cheap or cheaper than Cls in the UK. We are paying 12.90€ per night.

Putting out tables and awnings on a permanent basis is just not on on an Aire. Yes have a meal outside but put the stuff back in the van. It is an Aire not a campsite.

We have noticed that no matter how much space you have between vans unless they are divided by hedges, certain nationalities will park so close together that they only have space to open the door, even in an empty Aire. Therefor hard landscaping would be the only way to ensure spacing.

A request to the Mayor to get more facilities in the area for filling autogas please. The nearest at present are Alicante, Murcia or just south of Cartegena.

Many Motorhomes can be seen using a toad or trailer. Space to fit these large units, not just a 6m limit as in most French Aires please.

Good access roads please.


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## shirleydeputy (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi

What a great idea! Thanks for taking this initiative. 
My personal priority would be location, location, location! Possibly short cycle ride to one of the beaches and some shops. 
We were very impressed with our visit to Torrevieja area last winter, but I guess my concern would be that the aire spaces would be taken over by long term stayers as are many of the campsites.

I have no problem with people who stay long term......I did two months myself....... but personally I believe an aire is best restricted to short stays of just a few days. 
I don't like to suggest imposing rules .....life's too short for that but on the other hand......restrictions on lengths of stay would make it easier for those that prefer touring ad hoc.
Whatever happens I am sure it will be an asset. Good luck.
Shirley


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## Bryandh (Oct 6, 2010)

p-c said:


> Wow, what a great man you are. We are really lucky to have someone like you on the spot.
> 
> My own feelings are;
> Possible charge, not excessive maybe 5euro, to park means that someone could call around daily to collect monies.
> ...


Quite right to limit the time etc.

If all the "extras" mentioned above are requested of the mayor then the possibility of frightening them off is high as what is being discussed, in the above posts" is a Municipal Camp Site..... a completely different notion to what I understand an aire to be. Start simple,,,, good level hard location, security, metered waste disposal and water, no electric.
Good luck...............you're going to need it Ken :wink:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

All of the above- limited stay to ensure it is not used as a campsite etc.

Could there also be a regular bus to town from outside - or close by- and, if it catches on- and it will- a dedicated cycle track might be added.

Well done you for getting involved in this initiative and please thank the mayor for his long-sightedness.

G


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## aivlys (May 1, 2005)

Well done for organising this! 
_As a regular visitor to Torre I suspect the area that will likely be allocated is already an area used for wild camping and parking. 
It has fab sea views and a bus stop to the town centre very close by._ 
I would agree, in order for everyone to be able to make the most of this site it would be best to limit the stay to 3-5 nights. Most definately need clean water and a waste disposal unit.
Parking is quite difficult and expensive in Torre centre so a fee of 5-8 euros a day would be very reasonable and a big bonus if it secures basic services and security. 
EHU only really needed in August for aircon and fans and keeping the beer/wine extra cold so maybe an overkill at this stage, )unless they want to turn it into a full time camp site).
Good luck with the project.


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## aivlys (May 1, 2005)

Well done for organising this! 
_As a regular visitor to Torre I suspect the area that will likely be allocated is already an area used for wild camping and parking. 
It has fab sea views and a bus stop to the town centre very close by._ 
I would agree, in order for everyone to be able to make the most of this site it would be best to limit the stay to 3-5 nights. Most definately need clean water and a waste disposal unit.
Parking is quite difficult and expensive in Torre centre so a fee of 5-8 euros a day would be very reasonable and a big bonus if it secures basic services and security. 
EHU only really needed in August for aircon and fans and keeping the beer/wine extra cold so maybe an overkill at this stage, )unless they want to turn it into a full time camp site).
Good luck with the project.


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## safariboy (May 1, 2005)

Rubbish disposal and recycling. I would suggest that there is a small charge so that there was a fund to keep it clean. If possible near a cycle track into town. I would vote against electricity unless they wanted to put sockets round the aire. 
Banning generators
Keep it simple but try not to let it look look a car park. Remember it is not a camp site.
Show them pictures of good aires from the MHF database.


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

Thanks to all of you for your input. I have also discussed this with Spanish friends and we appear to have a similar view to them. So it will be free but with a time limit of 72 hours, a borne with charge for water of 3 or 4€ , large waste bins, an information board, bus stop close, regular police patrols and a daily visit by a council employee. No electric . Later if this is very successful we can have another place similar to the private aires with electric hookup, shower, toilets etc but chargeable at a similar rate to the private aires ie 7 - 12 € depending on length of stay.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Sounds just the job.We look forward to visiting.

Don't forget to let Vicarious Books know so they can include it in the All The Aires book !

Thanks again

G


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## aivlys (May 1, 2005)

Sounds like you have it well sorted. 

Just one last thought, as it will be limited to 72 hours, do you want to add a no-return caveat?

Good luck


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

As I am only offering to advise on what is needed and wanted I will not have the final say in this. I am not a council member. However I was told "This is a great idea show us and we will do it" so I expect my input will not end here. I will offer to help promote this aire, also to personally turn up regularly for a couple of months and monitor how people are using it. There will be rules but sensible ones. All necessary to get rid of waste of all types will be provided so anyone throwing waste on the ground or draining grey waste on the ground will be fined if caught. We live in a warm place so rubbish must not be left around. We will have info on the nearest source for medical help, vehicle help, vets, etc. so to make it a pleasant visit in every way. Torre does have nice beaches around La Mata and its towards that side I am suggesting. I also know the town quite well so when this all happens I will be back on here with a huge list of all the things to do in the town, places to eat, entertainment etc. 
The whole idea is to get MH'rs visiting the town by giving them the right facilities and hopefully they will come back.
Finally Eduardo has to be elected in when the current mayor retires "the elections are soon", however his popular party have been in power for 21 years here and he is a very well liked young man so I see no reason why he will not be elected. He has my vote.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Well done 

My favorite aire does the following which I think is great.

Must leave each day and no return within 4 hours. But no limit on the number of days you can stay for. This gives other an opportunity to get a spot.

No charge for parking.

Free waste disposal

Water costs 2 Euros for 50 litres and is well away from the waste disposal area.

The tokens for the water machine must be purchased from one of the local shops.

I love this aire and would pay for staying but not too. I would rather pay for the services I use as I am spending my money in the village.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

gromett said:


> The tokens for the water machine must be purchased from one of the local shops.


Please, please not this system. We always arrive at aires when the shops are closed - and this means weekends, lunchtimes or evenings.
This means we can't get water so have to make sure we refill before we leave- not always possible- or move on.

G


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Aires*

Hi

I have still to use an aire, due to failings in the past as a result of...

1) Unable to access with a larger vehicle due to strategically placed boulders etc

2) Unable to access due to awkward layout - Millau for example with those low level fences.

If I was able to get on an aire....

1) Fresh water - €2 euro for upto 100 litres. 
2) Toilet and grey water dump
3) No requirement for EHU as likely to be there for one or two days
4) Clearly marked areas, with spaces in between. 
5) Rubbish bins
6) Good sign posting

Russell


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

My letter with recommendation has gone off now with the offer to address the council with my good friend Luis who was a principal of his own language school. I'm Scottish so I need someone to help so they can understand  I have listened to all that you have said and paid particular regard to safety, ease of access, waste disposal, bus route, local information. and suggested that the only cost is that for water.I have given a link to the MHF guide to aires by Peedee They will now discuss it and hopefully contact me then I can be very detailed on marked bays, longer vehicles, how to best promote it etc. I have said only 72 hours but i'm thinking if this goes well they will have another with unlimited stay, electric,WiFi etc. and a charge per day. The town has spent millions recently with new sports facilities, marina, music centre, re surfacing roads so creating an aire should be childs play. I,m told Eduardo and the departing mayor Pedro Fernandez Mateo have asked central goverment for an extra 2 billion € to spend on the town so if they get it the future looks promising


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

My letter with recommendation has gone off now with the offer to address the council with my good friend Luis who was a principal of his own language school. I'm Scottish so I need someone to help so they can understand  I have listened to all that you have said and paid particular regard to safety, ease of access, waste disposal, bus route, local information. and suggested that the only cost is that for water.I have given a link to the MHF guide to aires by Peedee They will now discuss it and hopefully contact me then I can be very detailed on marked bays, longer vehicles, how to best promote it etc. I have said only 72 hours but i'm thinking if this goes well they will have another with unlimited stay, electric,WiFi etc. and a charge per day. The town has spent millions recently with new sports facilities, marina, music centre, re surfacing roads so creating an aire should be childs play. I,m told Eduardo and the departing mayor Pedro Fernandez Mateo have asked central goverment for an extra 2 billion € to spend on the town so if they get it the future looks promising


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## Hydrocell (Jan 29, 2011)

It’s nice to see some ting positive for a change, always good to here of new Aires opening.
I suggest that a time limit of 48 hours in summer time and 72 hours thereafter or as was already stated it would become a cheap campsite.
Water & waste and security are the main priorities electric is a bonus
Good work keeps it up.
Regards
Ray


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

And not forgetting the Bull 8)


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well done Ken, great work, Alan.


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