# Caravan Club attitude to motorhomers



## 88915 (May 10, 2005)

I think HelenB touched on this on another post, but I haven't seen a specific post, so here goes.
In the March CC magazine there is a report (page 10) from the "club Council" - a board meeting. In it the chief exec said:-
" ....reports have been received of motorcavanners claiming rights to "wild camping" (such as those which exist for backpackers in Scotland). No such rights exist, and unauthorised caravanning meant those responsible could be woken by police in the night and moved on. *The club would not allow motor cavannners to call at its sites simply to empty tanks and replenish water supplies and tehn move on, as this would be encouraging wild camping.*The Chairman said he would be speaking on wild camping at a conference in Italy. Wild camping is even more of a problem on the continent than it is here, he said."

I was spitting feathers when I read this, and I'm not a wild camper to any extent; I normally use formal sites, and aires in France, I've never felt particularly safe wild camping.
I think this report is typical of the attitude of the CC to motorhomers - we are tolerated but not to be encouraged. 
A couple of points I would comment on - 
1) The C& CC have a motorhome stopover at about half it's sites - you can dump, fillup & use the showers for a smallish fee. Why do they think it's a good idea & not the CC? I Think it's more of we don't want these people paking up & not using our sites, we'd lose alot of money.... 
2) If it's illegal & you might get moved on by the police, why are there thousands of truckers parked up in lay-bys all over the country everynight? Do the police knock these up & move them on? Of course they don't , it's doing nobody any harm, and there's no nuisance caused.
3) What conference was this in Italy? has anybody else heard of this & what happened? Is wid camping that much of a problem on the continent? 
seems to me that the vested interests i.e. site owners are involved here.

Comments please!


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Can't remember saying anything about this Mike, but it may well be old age creeping on :lol: However I am in complete agreement with you on all your points, think the CC is way too heavy handed about this, and last time I was in Scotland I think I saw as many caravaners and tenters wild camping as MH'ers.
Just sounds a very self righteous, stuffy statement to me :wink: I am still not convinced that it is MH'ers that the club does not like, just members who have more flexible attitudes to being on sites, like not arriving at ridgid times and not wanting to be sited in neat regimented rows and stay for 3.36 days, in other words they are failing abysmally to move with the times.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

I don't particularly like the Caravan Club, this goes back from a few years ago.
We used to be caravanners and were members of the C&CC, on a couple of occasions we found it necessary to use CC sites. we got the feeling that we were not very welcome there and felt as though people were looking down their noses at us.
We have never found that on a C&CC and we have used alot of them, on the contrary have never had anything but a very friendly welcome and very friendly people on the sites.
I know this is drifting slightly from the post, just an observation

Chris


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

*Bad Timing*

I just joined the Caravan Club last night, wished I seen this post before doing so I would have thought twice about it.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Bad Timing*



kildare said:


> I just joined the Caravan Club last night, wished I seen this post before doing so I would have thought twice about it.


Why?
If you don't think that the attitude of the Caravan Club is to your liking there is only one way to change it and that is from within.
The Club will never take notice of any outside pressure from motorhome owners.

I will go further and say that if the 5000 plus members of this group eligible to belong to the Caravan Club were in fact members they would constitute a large pressure group which would have to be listened to.

It may be that the CC doesn't know how many motorhome owners belong. We enrolled as members 30 years ago as caravanners. I don't remember having to say at that time whether we were caravan owners but certainly our current membership gives no indication that we are now motorhome owners.


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Well said Gillian, you do talk a lot of sense :wink: 

Oh apart from the oscar dresses that is :lol:


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Obviously the CC's response to the C&CCs MH stop facility. Seems silly it could only bring them income which they would not otherwise have.

Unfortunately the Clubs are now like businesses and not clubs any more.

I must say that in over 30yrs membership mainly as a 'tugger' I have never seen any outward show of treating MHs differently to Caravanners and I always find their sites I use clean and pleasant.

John 8)


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Surely the whole point of belonging to a club comes in the main to...If you want to use the club sites you must belong. If you don't want to use the sites then why bother to belong. And if anyone joins purely for what ever else they can get out of it (for example cheap insuance or ferry tickets) then you are merely sponging off the other members who do wish to contribute something to club life.
Both the CC and the C&CC are clubs in exactly the same way as are your local tennis club or your local sailing club and "social members" are frequently tolerated merely for the extra income they provide.
I don't belong to either as I rarely, if ever, camp in this country so have no need of their services, and on the Continent I am perfectly capable of looking up the sites local to my travelling and finding one that suits ( a problem in this country anyway as there are nowhere near as many sites available to us as for example in France.)

nobby


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Sounds exactly like that babble I sometimes hear from German camp site owners. Could it be that the board of this club has somehow lost the connection to the members?

Best Regards,
Gerhard (no member of any club)


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*caravan club.*

I visited the caravan,camping and boat show at the NEC last week, i found myself on the caravan club stand and as a member i asked them about motorhome stop overs. a site we could visit for the night and pay a fee for just a parking spot and a tap and waste facility. wanting somewhere to stop after 7.00 pm and move off latest 9.00am. i said i waws only looking at the club run sites and not the cl network (if using a cl it may take a place where the land owner is limited to numbers - club run site would have the spaces free) the answer was no, we are a caravan club and we cater for them. At this point i advised them that their membership was not just made up from caravaners but also alot of motorhome owners. This point they advised me that they have not looked at this and they could not see them puting in place facilities for stop overs. i am going to bring this matter to our centre reps so they can take this matter up at centre levels. They are happy to take our money on rallies and want our votes for centre funds so lets make them start to work for us motorhomers. After all look at the amount of sales for motorhomes than caravans, will the caravan clubs want us when motorhomes are in demand more than their caravan members. :?:


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## fjmike (May 10, 2005)

I have to admit I missed this bit in the CC magazine , but now that I have read it I am really cross that somebody so misinformed, old fashioned and biased could be holding positions of Executive Secretary and Chairman in such a large organization let alone be able to spout these discriminatory views at conferences etc. If you are a member of The Caravan Club I sugest like me you email them expressing your concerns

[email protected]

with "Club Magazine Letters" as the subject

Even if only a few email them it may make these bigots realise that they should check their facts before publishing or speaking


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

> Surely the whole point of belonging to a club comes in the main to...If you want to use the club sites you must belong. If you don't want to use the sites then why bother to belong.


This is not correct many of the club sites are open to non members, it is even possible you don't need to be a member to use CLs either. If you were a member you would also know the the club makes a profit out of all its other services some of them having very little to do with what the club was originally formed for!

I am not sure what point you are making Nobby but this brings us back to square one where it looks like a large proportion of the membership, note membership not customers, (customers don't pay subscription fees and members have rights in the affairs of any club) are being ignored.
If they are not then the Club needs to shout a little more loudly, because many of us don't understand their stance. They should stop making silly statements like those just printed and explain their thinking in more detail.

peedee


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## Brambles (May 12, 2005)

"And if anyone joins purely for what ever else they can get out of it (for example cheap insuance or ferry tickets) then you are merely sponging off the other members who do wish to contribute something to club life."

Hi Nobby,
Can you explain further why anyone purely joining for the benefits is sponging off other members. I must be a bit slow but I do not understand what you are saying. 

You go on to say "...your local tennis club or your local sailing club and "social members" are frequently tolerated merely for the extra income they provide", does this not contradict what you said above.

I would also like to add to the general discussion I decided not to to rejoin the CC, partly because I did not feel I got enough out of using their sites as none happen to be where we want to stay. What clinched it was when we phoned them to say we were thinking of cancelling and asked if they wanted to know why (another reason being their attitude to what constitutes a good site - e.g, no kids, no washing drying on display, etc.... along with the comments about Motorhomers being a problem. ) They had no interests in our reasons at all , not even to start listening to them or suggesting we put in writing. The CC&C went to great lengths to explain every thing they offered, were helpful and repeated ALL campers of any type from Packpackers to Motorhomers of all sizes and cyclists to caravans are catered for and welcome. 

Regarding comments on Motorhomers on the continent being a problem, from what I have read YES they are. They are aware in many towns and this gives rise to problem on how to cater for them. They are addressing the issues and many providing dedicated parking and overnight stopping areas because they see the benefits it can bring to the town in tourist income. Busy Tourist areas of Italy, South France and Spain hardly constitute 'The continent'.

I'll go back to sleep now - thanks for listening,
Jon.


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

tolerance seems to be a rare commodity here.

this sort of talk is why i would not represent my fellow workers when asked to do so. the attitude that we are under attack from anti whatever group it is we think we belong to. it's almost tribal.

i'm in both clubs to use the facilities that i want to use. what i don't want i don't use. the same as any other business that i use - the 'club' name is really a misnomer. they are both multi million pound businesses.

i see lots of 'the uk is not MH friendly' comments. no it's not and it's unlikely ever to be so. the part of the uk that i live in is the most densely populated area in europe. 

france is about two & a half times the size of the uk with about the same size population. so every person & every vehicle has two & a half times more room. they have the space to give to aires for camping cars and to tolerate wild camping.

let's put the tin hats away, come out of the bunkers and stop thinking that the rest of the world is obliged to welcome & embrace us.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Oh I dont't know smifee, I must be fairly tolerant as I am still a CC member  

At least you have gone to some lengths to explain your position which is more than the club has so far publicly done.

I bet one or two comercial sites close to CC sites wouldn't mind seeing the Club officially becoming a commercial business. They wouldn't be able to use voluntary labour or subsidise sites and wouldn't get an income from subscriptions either and would have to compete on level terms with them. I might get a windfall as well  

peedee


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

After you with the winfall Peedee

So far we have not come across this attitude on either club sites But then perhaps we are also too tolerant or thick skinned so that we just brush it off

Caravanners also want to call in and empty toilets. We have slept in laybys, Motorway service areas, and by the sea in the very N of Scotland
when night has descended on us before we have reached our destination

The only Club that was prejudiced was the 'International Caravaning Association' We couldnt get onto any rallies because we were 'New' members You were supposed to go to the Annual rally where the decided the years program and book your rallies there - so we were told by an official
Needless to say we are no longer members


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## 88792 (May 9, 2005)

In our 15-16 yrs motorhoming with an American rv have always found Caravan Club wardens very helpful. We always phone to book , tell them how long we are & can they fit us in?. Always a good reason for saying no, ie fully booked or all large pitches taken . On site always helpful, we usually arrive late on a Fri. evening & often will come out to open barrier whe n we are quite happy to use late night arrival area. Similarly happy to let us stay on after 12 on a Sun for a mid afternoon departure if site not busy. I've certainly not come across any anti motorhome feeling .


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Sure the club is fine if you want to fit into the mould of a tugger, but here we are talking about the club doing something different.

peedee


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I have to say that although i'm a bit dismayed with the comments of the chairman that Mike quotes. I'm sure they like to be seen as taking the safety stance here as they do with their advice against staying on aires in France, partly for security reasions, cynics would say its more for financial reasons (!).

However, on the whole i'm pleased with the value for money that the club offers.
I've always been treated well on the sites i've visited and find their CL network invaluable. The travel insurance and ferry bookings service is the epitomy of efficiency and reasonably competetive in this cut throat sector.

The only real gripes i have with them is the issue of electricity charges on sites even if you don't want it, i'm sure they could come up with a fairer system than that, and the sites are a bit regemented, ie vans lined up like soldiers and SS panzerwardens in green fatigues at check in, but at least you know you're guaranteed a clean well organised site on every visit and if you don't like 'em don't use 'em and stick to CL's..

I think i'll stay with them and pay my annual fee and use the services that they provide as i see fit, although i wonder who's going to fund the holiday to Italy for the chairman...Could it possibly be us members :roll: 

pete.


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## 88726 (May 9, 2005)

hi guys
we joined cc when we got the motorhome and have not had any problems
so far . weve used loads of sites last year . we also dont care if anyone disaproves of us . people have allways spoken and been nice . we were even offered an overnight parking space once when site was full . they call this the late arrivals area . when we declined the warden gave us advice and directions to a great site near by and asked us to please visit again. admittedly most of the sites weve visited are up north in scotland and we may find differences further afield but so far no complaints so if youve just joined try it first then decide .
cheers
kenny+stella


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## 88735 (May 9, 2005)

We have felt no ill feeling to us as motorhomers and find 
the facilities top quality and the wardens helpful.
We have also camped wild on route to sites where we pay
the site fee and use the facilities.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

peejay said:


> The only real gripes i have with them is the issue of electricity charges on sites even if you don't want it, i'm sure they could come up with a fairer system than that, pete.


Cannot knock what you, Bauldy and the flyingscot say Pete. Certainly my gripes all stem from the above issue which now make overnight stops very expensive and if you stay on a CL and find taking on water or dumping waste too difficult on them (for what ever reason), they have now shut the door on pulling in for a quick service. I would love to know what prompted the statement from them and why one club feels they can do it but not another? Can you really see it encouraging wild camping? I can not and neither can I see a safety issue in this, only a benefit to the motorcaravanner and the environment.

peedee


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I think what i was trying to say was...

The Caravan Club would never let itself be seen to condone or encourage any activities (wildcamping, staying o/n on aires) where there is a greater element of risk than staying on a site and possibly encouraging an illegal activity (is wildcamping illegal? that one will go on and on). They have a duty to their members don't forget.
Not saying i agree with it but i can see part of the reasoning behind it.
They probably see providing this 'pitstop' facility as encouragement to replenish supplies then go off wildcamping, though, like i said, the hidden reason is probably also a financial matter.

But there again, if the CCClub can provide this facility (albeit expensive) then why can't they?

Oh I dunno!

pete.

footnote, I also think talking about it on here is one thing, but if you really feel strongly about it then the only way to get something done about it is to let THEM know your views and lobby through the appropriate channels.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

peejay said:


> I think what i was trying to say was...
> footnote, I also think talking about it on here is one thing, but if you really feel strongly about it then the only way to get something done about it is to let THEM know your views and lobby through the appropriate channels.


Couldn't agree more. A while back when there was a winge about the club web sites, I asked how many had written to the clubs or attended a meeting to complain. No one replied so I guess no one! As an aside, in the scale of club membership numbers, this sites even with over 5000 members is quite tiny. The C&CC club having about 400,000 individuals and the CC twice as many. Only a very very small proportion are likely to complain even if they were not happy with something.

peedee


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

That is it in a nut shell, nothing will ever get changed if no-one does anything about it :wink: 
As an aside isn't it odd how in any group with an interest like for instance walkers always seem to think that they are not treated as fairly as another group who shares their space, for instance horse riders, who think in their turn that walkers get all the breaks and they are the ones who are hard done by. I just wonder if this is what is happening to us, we perceive caravanners as getting all the breaks, perhaps they see us as the chosen ones. I remember when a tenter thinking that the C + CC was biased towards caravanners and motorhomers. :wink:


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## 90610 (May 1, 2005)

We've been debating this over at the motorcaravanning.co.uk forum and also on the motorhome list and all three 'forum' owners have agreed to co-operate on this topic.

There are naturally many different reactions - after all we are an independent minded lot - but the reactions seem mostly to be divided between 'what do you expect' and 'we expect the needs of members (even a minority) to be met'. The majority view so far expressed is for the latter. If you feel this way I suggest you email or write to the CC expressing your view.

The CC are more than just a business. Apart from the membership benefits issue they purport to represent us all when consulted on 'caravanning' issues. Their input may have an effect on the outcome of various topics including the whole issue of 'wild camping' which I believe they see as including all non-site stopovers.

Stopovers, Euro-style, are hot news at the moment with the first few fledgling UK Aires now in existence and support from Motor Caravan Magazine being most welcome; we really do not want a supposedly authoritative organisation like the CC putting this movement down.

Whatever your personal needs I appeal to you all not to 'turn the other cheek' but to support the (mild and reasonable) protests being made to the CC on behalf of all motorcaravanners, both current and future.


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## 88915 (May 10, 2005)

couldn't agree more, Neill. Get your letters & e-mails in to the CC and let our views be known.


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## funnymunny (May 13, 2005)

The comments made by a Caravan Club committee member relating to wild camping were obviously made in self preservation of the club and its very lucrative growing motorhome trade. If you look at the room taken up by caravans with their ever growing awnings and the 4x4 and the other car plus all the wind breaks and compare that with the small space taken by a motorhome makes me think the CC should think again their pricing structure and policy towards motorhomes. Why don't they open up more to French style aires and smaller parking spaces as in France then instead of 6 caravans filling a space they could accommodate 30 motorhomes in the same area allowing a pricing structure to suit thus keeping motorhomes from wild camping.


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Excellent post Neil and a very good idea, for goodness sake lets stop muttering into our beer and actually do something instead of that incessant refrain you hear so much of from all walks of life that 'they should do something about it '

:evil: *Wrong* :evil:

We should do something about it everyone of us who has a complaint to make should get out there and do it........now :wink:

Sorry to sound a bit annoyed but I do get so tired of hearing the magical 'they' are responsible for all our woes


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*hi*

hi we joined the cc about twenty five years ago because we liked the site we were staying on then we found the cl's and liked them better for all sort's of reason's, trouble is now that even cl's want/need to charge £8 + per night (more than some commercial sites)we joined the c&cc ten years later because there was a cs we liked (don't use that now as they charge £10 pn, did e-mail the cc the other day though to see if the cl network could be more flexible with regard to motorhomes especially the ones with a large site one acre + for motorhomes passing through an area who really do only want to stop one night, after all this would bring more income to the land owners and make touring easier for us( never liked having to phone ahead)and if motorhome/caravaning is becoming as popular as they say it is we won't be able to get on a site anywhere without booking months in advance, but all they said was its the law only five van's, but law's can be changed, can't they?. i don't think they like motorhomes because they are not so easy to keep track of (i mean we keep going off site when it suits us)leaves the place looking untidy,think most the wardens are ok though, and the sites are clean.
pete


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> I will go further and say that if the 5000 plus members of this group eligible to belong to the Caravan Club were in fact members they would constitute a large pressure group which would have to be listened to.


I agree even at 5,000 here, and together with the members of the motorhome list and Neills forums we should have some persuasive power, (Even taking into account duplications we must have around the (6000-7000) mark members. So if we contact CC to let them know our feelings about recent policy statements etc I am sure they may start to sut and take notice.

I have also added a survey on the front page to ascertain the depth of feeling here as to which members of this site are also CC members and at the same time were unhappy with the statements made.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*comment from a newbie*

My better half and I are new to motorhoming, so can't speak from a great deal of experience, but for what it's worth....

We bought our new (old!) MH a few months ago (a 1990 Talbot Autosleeper Rambler van conversion) and joined the CC more or less at the same time. Since joining we've stayed at three CC sites (all in the lake district - not so much choice over the winter) and have always been made to feel very welcome. As I said, we've got a 15 year old van which, while we are slowly working on it, is showing it's age in certain places (one or two scabs on the front arches spring to mind). However, we've never felt discriminated against, either as a motorhomer or indeed as, perish the thought, owner of an 'older' MH. This applies equally to others that we've shared the site with - we've pitched next to some jaw-droppingly desirable (and expensive) MH's, but have never felt like we've been looked down on (we always have a laugh because so far we've usually been the oldest van on the site, although we equalled last weekend by a monocoque AS).

So, I can only say that so far my limited experiences of the CC have been positive (and I hope it stays that way!)

just my 2p
Matt


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Smiffee can't be tolerant he wants damage AS Motorhomes!  

If he can't tolerate these he must be really afflicted. :wink: 

John 8)


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## 88810 (May 9, 2005)

I agree with the part about being tolerated but why should we put up with that. Have you seen the amount of motorhomes on CC sites at times they equal the caravans. I agree we should be able to help change things.

Reading their magazine really gets my back up as everything is caravan orientated. One article was about Trying Rallying but there wasn't one mention of motorhomes, even if they had used the dreaded "outfit" word it would have been better but it was caravan this caravan that, jockey wheel, rally marshals caravan.

Has anyone noticed the odd sitings of their motorvan disposal points on the ones we have stayed on they are always in an invconvenient place. I wonder if on their brand new top notch Hillhead site it is any better placed.

At one site the lady warden came out and asked us to turn the engine off as it was making a noise, we had been stopped for about 60 seconds. Then the male warden came along and shouted at us for not moving up to the line. Well we would have, if we hadn't just been told to switch off. We had driven for 6 hours and 240 miles non stop and were tired, not walked 10 feet from the hut. Sorry, but I bet they wouldn't have complained if we'd had an X5+Bailey twin axle.


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## 88838 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Neill, howyadoin'?

Glad to see the motorhome sites are thinking of working in conjunction on this.

We have been members of CC n C&CC for a while, and recently resigned from CC - and wrote and explained why. It was not our first attempt at trying to communicate with CC, but have never met with any success.
The wardens at both sites are generally ok, it's headquarters and the general business ethos taking over that is the issue.

On a tangent, there was a recent survey on insurance done recently - I think by Motor Caravan magazine - both clubs deals were found to be lacking in simple, breakdown deals - a crucial component for mh insurance, - - perhaps indicative of the clubs interest and understanding of mh needs?

If you really want to change something then it should be done from the inside - as gillian [and dodger] point out, but you do get sick of banging your head against the wall! We have reached that stage, and so opted for just one club's membership. If they can give us want we want then we'd probably rejoin, if not -- -- -- there are a lot of good sites out there.

8)


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

The C+CC club do a seperate breakdown deal with the RAC so perhaps this is why they do not include it in their insurance as you would not want to pay twice for the same service, though I suppose it could be an optional extra. I prefer to have both seperate, as I am then covered when driving any vehicle with the RAC rather than just the van


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

*Re: Bad Timing*



> autostratus wrote
> It may be that the CC doesn't know how many motorhome owners belong. We enrolled as members 30 years ago as caravanners. I don't remember having to say at that time whether we were caravan owners but certainly our current membership gives no indication that we are now motorhome owners.


Think you may well be right Gillian. I also enrolled as a caravan owner.
I guess if you have subsequently booked a ferry crossing or bought insurance they may have changed their records. I am sure they have published figures in the region of 50,000 club members are motorhome owners so I think they keep track of it somehow. On the other hand their published figures could be inaccurate.

peedee


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## lydgate (May 17, 2005)

I have followed this thread with interest as former caravaner awaiting delivery of a campervan and also a member of the CC. 

Most of the sites I visited last year had a high percentage of pitches occupied by motorhomes. At Trewethett Farm in Cornwall on several of the days we were there up to 80% of the pitches were occupied by motorhomes ranging from an enormous Burstner to a vintage VW camper. 

Can the CC afford to alienate such a large part of its membership?


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## 88838 (May 9, 2005)

lydgate said:


> Can the CC aforde to alianate such a large part of its membership?


I guess I'm more cynical than Gillian, I don't think they care, sites are booked up months in advance, why should they worry?
[reminds me of - the co-op, M&S, Sainsburys, .. .. .. .. .. - they had to learn the hard way to be more proactive, it's often too late!]

8)


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## Vita (May 16, 2005)

*caravan Club attitude to Motorhomers*

We have just come home from the Caravan Club's Bristol site - well over half the vans on the site were motorhomes and we were made very welcome. I must say too that the caravan owners were friendlier than the motorhomers.

Vita


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

I have come out of both clubs because "the friendly club" has been anything but, and the other not much better with extremely expensive (to my mind) CLs. When I had a tent I was not allowed to have a pitch with electricity (no reason given) is my money not good enough? If I am reduced to a tent I want some home comforts like an electric light and kettle - much safer too. :wink: Then during the height of the summer I could not book for less than three days. I said I needed someone as a stopover on my way to Scotland and was told that they really catered for families pitching there for their fortnight's holiday. There was a "night stopover" pitch but it wasn't bookable, if I turned up and it was free I could have it. After driving on my own for six or seven hours I like to know that I can stop! :evil: 
This time of year most sites are still quiet, ahead of the easter rush, so they can afford to be more reasonable perhaps :roll: 

Wild camping from now on - or I'll pay the extra as a non-member

Gill


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## 90164 (May 1, 2005)

*Caravan Club*

I have today sent the following letter to the Cravan Club.

For Attention of:-
Mr Brian Richardson
The Executive Secretary
The Caravan Club

Dear Sir,

Please consider the following points with reference to your statement published within the Club Council Report of the CC Magazine (page 10 of the March edition).

As a motorhome owning member of the CC (123456) I wish to register my strong displeasure at the content of your statement and would ask that you think carefully before disclosing these views on my behalf at any upcoming Italian conference. In brief, I would make the following points:-

I am against all forms of camping outside authorised camp sites HOWEVER ---

We must try and avoid any potential stigma being attached to motorhomes and as the CC Executive Director its your job to ensure the best possible PR for the motorhome.

With a motorhome (like a lorry) it is not possible to differentiate between parking and so called 'wild camping'. I trust you will allow me to park my vehicle!

I know that a motorhome parked facing a beach at midnight is probably camping, however that is the freedom that the vehicle is designed to provide. If it is parked legally they are within their rights to enjoy the stay.

Only a small number of motorhome owners misuse their vehicles and this minoririty action should not be allowed to colour the rest of the motorhoming fraternity.

Personally, I never sleep anywhere except on a designated camping site for reasons of personal security. However, the principle remains - motorhomes should be allowed to go where they will and stop at any time and place. On occasions, I park my vehicle and take a train or bus to a town centre to avoid congestion. I then attend a function, stay in a hotel and return next day. When I do this I put all the blinds in the van down for security. Nobody can tell whether I am asleep in my vehicle or not.

Most motorhome owners use all the available facilities on the continent. In particular, many small villages and towns now designate a motorhome service & sleeping area. This is properly signposted, authorised and designed to attract visitors to the area. Moreover, most continental camping sites provide for motorhomes in full and price pitches accordingly.

You should remember that a rising number of CC members are now motorhome owners and that at present the Club lags sadly behind in providing updated and suitable facilities for this group. We are much more self contained (onboard tanks etc) and require only a level pitch the size of the vehicle, water, a full 10amp electricity supply, a grey water sump that we can drive over and a chemical toilet disposal point. That's it, the future of our club may well be more and more aligned to these simple needs.

I suggest that when you swan off to speak in Italy you adopt a more positive attitude. Instead of being led astray by a few motorhome owners and making critical remarks about the motorhome. Remember the trend is strongly towards these excellent recreational vehicles replacing caravans and explain how you and our Club are doing all you can to catch up with the continent in providing full motorhome facilities.

Yours in hope !

Chris Brewer


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## rollison (May 1, 2005)

We have been members of the CC for 25 years, first with caravans, and now for the last three years as motorhomers. We use the CC sites because they are secure and can be relied upon to be well kept, which we find particularly desirable when we have grandchildren with us. However we often laugh to ourselves about our fellow members and their funny little foibles.
We have wild camped in the UK, sometimes because we could find nowhere else. Northern Scotland last October was very difficult with most sites closed, and all CC sites closed. What else can one do when the facilities are not available? The most annoying occasion last year was to be told that we couldn't stay another night on the Richmond site in North Yorkshire because it was fully booked. However the CC had allowed seasonal pitches to be taken by UNOCCUPIED caravans, but we couldn't park our motorhome alongside one of the closed up caravans because the pitch had been paid for by a member for the whole season. So we had to park in the Scotch Corner HGV layby up the road for the night. At least we could conveniently do this as we had all facilities onboard.
We have often used aires in France with no complaints. Many are clearly signposed by the local council to ENCOURAGE us to use them, presumably in the (correct) assumption that we would walk up the road to the local bar for a meal, or use the local shops. The French have such a different attitude to motorhomes, with restrictions only being in sensible places where congestion or access makes motorhomes too cumbersome.


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## trigrem (May 1, 2005)

*Caravan Club attitude to Motorhomers*

I think we have drifted a bit away from the original post.
The CC were refering to Wild Camping, in the UK. Apart from some parts of Scotland such as the Outer Hebredes, there are very few areas where you can truly "Wild Camp" without upsetting someone. I have seen people so called "Wild Camping"? on the front at Bridlington straight in front of seafront bungalows, and some even empty the waste water in the gutter.
I beleive this has led to parking of Motorhomes being banned in certain areas. Not suprising!
The provision of Aires in France and other countries is the positive way of dealing with the problem to the advantage of the local community.
If Motorhome Stopovers were avail;able in the UK then we would not require facilities from the CC, However it will be difficult to obtain parking places with facilities because of the cost. Parking facilities without facilities is probably the most we can hope for, and if they become available then we will need the Clubs to provide emptying facilities. The C&cc club already provide this at a number of sites, The CC club will have to rethink their attitude or lose a llot of potential members, with the growth of Motorhome sales.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Well put Trigem, I almost go along with what you say 100 percent the only exception being:



> However it will be difficult to obtain parking places with facilities because of the cost.


I think this is true of most urban areas but there are other avenues the Clubs don't seem to want to explore. Both clubs aready have agreements with probably the biggest land owner in the country, the National Trust. 
With agreement, I don't think it would be too difficult to provide facilities on their properties. What about race courses, again the CC club already has agreements with many courses. In many cases the land is under utilised with many courses being winter only and they sit idle in the summer.

Finally what about working closer with willing suitable CL owners. CLs licences limit occupancy to 5 units but I see no reason why the club could not apply for planning permission to include a motorhome stopover?

peedee


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## 88797 (May 9, 2005)

CC website page about applying to become a CL: 

'We refuse more aplications than we accept', 'We have very high standards'

- So they must have high standards to make shure they are suitable for ALL members?

Description of one new CL in latest update of new CLs in the CC Magazine:

'No Motorhomes or twin axles'.

Thanks CC!!

A


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Probably due to the ground being too soft for weight of MH's or twin axle vans Chugs, rather than a phobia :wink:


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Or maybe in this case they are following the lead of our Continantal friends. 
Their sites have banned twin axles because travellers and gypsies tend to favour them.


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## 88797 (May 9, 2005)

hi helen

my point was rather that they say they are picky in who they choose to make a CL yet will choose one that probably half the members cant go on!!

Wonder if the owner had sayed 'motorhomes only' (reason being they take up less space) they would have accepted it??

A


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*hi*

hi chuggalugs
they had used to have motorcaravan only cl's, we used one once miles down a very narrow lane really tight entrance and a orchard of low trees to drive through. we declined to stop and had to be towed out. never tried another one as they were all miles from anywhere, now i like it quiet but theres a limit, they don't do them anymore (unless someone knows different)
pete


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## 88797 (May 9, 2005)

Sounds like my kind of CL pete :lol: 

A


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*hi*

should of thought that you got enough peace and quiet in your neck of the woods :lol: we found one in cornwall 2 miles past flambards a field all to yourself £2.50pn but getting water was a trial(park in the middle of the lane ) then suddenly its rush hour, no pressure on the water, we give up in the end and filled up elsewhere, needed to empty the toilet, this was situated in the middle of overgrowth, the farmer said just hop over the fence( i need a walking stick to get around)it was a lovely spot though.
pete


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Now that sounds like my kind of site. Sorry chugs I had mis- interpretated your post and I see your point now :wink:


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## 90403 (May 1, 2005)

*Caravan Club*

Hi,
I do wish this Board had been active 25 yrs ago when we joined the CC with our first Motorvan. I have had so many experiences with Wardens, Committee members and 'Tuggers' I could write a book.
I constantly complain to the CC for their lack of interest for Motorvanners. When I complained that we were badly let down with Ferry deals, the answer in writing was 'its for the good of the many' "its not our remit to get deals for a few 'Vanners' ie. caravans go free!
Why should I pay the same pitch fee, when a tugger fills his pitch with van, car, plus awning the size of a house.
I have been on sites when I was 'Allocated' pitches under a mass of trees, on complaining, told the best pitches are kept for our 'regulars'. or "they are here for a week" reply "its for the good of the many."
This is not just on one site but many up and down the country, and my biggest gripe is Rowntree Park, York, right by the river. I have only managed to get in 2 wk-ends, EVER. and its only 30 mls away. Always fully booked by non-members, reason? they pay top rates and book at the start of the year.
The warden told me he took over 300 bookings the first 4 days in the New Year. 
Why do we stay a member, twice a year the whole family, all tuggers go away for a week and as head of the family I do as I'm told.
God Bless the MCC & the C&CC.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

*Re: Caravan Club*



macboro said:


> Hi,
> When I complained that we were badly let down with Ferry deals, the answer in writing was 'its for the good of the many' "its not our remit to get deals for a few 'Vanners' ie. caravans go free!


I agree but I usually shop around and do not always book my crossing with the club. If they cannot offer the right price don't use them.



> Why should I pay the same pitch fee, when a tugger fills his pitch with van, car, plus awning the size of a house.


This is fairly standard practice at any site club or not unless there are dedicated motorhome spaces. Whilst you are not using all your allocated space no one else can use it and you are using the same asset for which the cost of supply and maintenance must be recovered. Agree some sites do charge for awnings but for the reasons given above I think this is wrong and as a tugger I used to avoid them like the plague.



> I have been on sites when I was 'Allocated' pitches under a mass of trees, on complaining, told the best pitches are kept for our 'regulars'. or "they are here for a week" reply "its for the good of the many."


Again this is not just the clubs that do this.



> my biggest gripe is Rowntree Park, York, right by the river. I have only managed to get in 2 wk-ends, EVER. and its only 30 mls away. Always fully booked by non-members, reason? they pay top rates and book at the start of the year.
> The warden told me he took over 300 bookings the first 4 days in the New Year.


It is difficult to get a pitch on this site but something is very wrong here because non members are not allowed to advance book. If you are certain of your facts you need to complain very strongly to the club.



> Why do we stay a member


Whilst I haven't agreed with many of your points I think there are more and more of us asking this question. BernardBG in his comments about the vote now running points out the many good things about the club. In the past as a tugger I have also greatly enjoyed my membership and the benefits it has given but increasingly I find myself questioning the value of this and, for none of the reasons you have put forward, my loyalty is wearing a bit thin.

peedee


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## 90136 (May 1, 2005)

And just to add to the debate, my renewal membership just popped through the door, up a pound to £32, at my calculations that means you need to stay on a site for 12 nights in the year to break even.


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## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

I was thinking about cancelling my membership and as I found out today that Ireland has disappeared according to their website I will write the letter now! :x 
I have emailed them today asking where they have put the Republic. I await their reply with interest!

Gill
(Tempted to open a motorhome only site in this CC-free zone!)


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Second year of membership with the CC and I have to say I've been hugely delighted with the service we've received from the club, with the exception of a haughty warden at Broadway.

I don't think of the fee as just potential discounts from site bookings, because of all the ancillary services you get by being a member.

I like receiving the magazine every month, and the Red Pennant breakdown cover is awesome.

In short - a great club, and whether you're a tower or a mher, you can't deny the sites are pretty damn good!

If you don't like paying £15 a night, go elsewhere. Simple as.


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## 88962 (May 10, 2005)

Just got back form CC site at Castleton in Derbyshire and warm reception, as always. Used CC sites for our 2 years MHing and never met with any adverse reaction to MH's. Must admit, I don't like the comments in the magazine but will not let that put me off. At present I find the standards high, the prices competative with other commercial sites and no trouble booking dates, but, if I wasn't happy with the service provided I have the choice not to join.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Apart from the worrying statement in the magazine, I have never had a problem with the Caravan Club. The subscription pays for itself and I enjoy the CLs


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

We have been members of the CC for more than 25yrs having converted to a M/home for the last 4, my observations are as follows. 
We have found no change whatsoever in the attitude of staff or other campers since becoming M/homers in fact people are interested in what the fors and againsts are.
We have 'Wild Camped' with our car twin axle caravan combination in the past when the need arose as well as with the M/home, though this is not what we personaly like to do.
We have found that it tends to be M/homers who have never had caravans that appear the least friendly and ready to critisise the caravaners so wonder if thier attitude brings what their attitude asks for.
We actually like the 'lines of pitches' that are clearly defined as against the haphazard jumble sale look of some other sites we have been on.
We think that the sites are top notch but compared to when we first joined they were top notch then by comparison to commercial sites, however the COST has become disproportionately higher and we object to having to pay for electricity whether we want it or not.
We have only had one occasion where the warden was OTT, this was when the new working time regulations were being introduced and we arrived later than planned to find the site gate was locked and we had to argue to gain entry to the site, not what you want at the end of a 6hour journey that should have been 3!
We believe that the membership charge is reasonable for the advantages you get, magazine, Red Pennant, Mayday and assistance with many other requests along the way.
We do believe that whilst we are generally happy with the club they are catering more for the 'new' CC membership, who have no comprehension of what 'real' caravanning is all about and those of us that have been around a long while, as in life in general, are being marginalised.
We could go on forever analising but at the end of the day I see no need to use site facilities just to empty and top up, if you want to do that go on to a site for an overnight stop and you can empty and refill to your hearts content!! Whats the problem thats what we do!!
I agree with the comments of rowley, stormywhether and Jeanann.


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## 90403 (May 1, 2005)

*Caravan Club*

Pete, I have the greatest respect for your opinion, especially you being so helpful in the past.
I suppose with my long suffering Military service, I am a Warden's worst nightmare, but I do believe that rules are there for a reason and not to hold chair legs up.
The system of allocating pitches is againist the CC rules and NO booked pitches except for disabled.
Example I arrived at a site on the Borders at 5.0pm, I was told another 2 mins and I would have to use the overnight. I was then allocated a pitch, which I refused, there was 26 pitches vacant, but Mein Kapt wanted them free to cut the grass. Bearing in mind the midday vacation, he had all day to do the gardening, I told him so and his retort." Bloody Motorvans" nothing but trouble. I then quoted the allocation rule and offered to phone HQ to clarify. He pushed me out of the Office and locked the door.
I was told later than he had already decided to resign.
The majority of Managers are brilliant, doing a very difficult job. But I still believe we are 2nd class citizens in the eyes if the CC


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## 88915 (May 10, 2005)

from Rowley:-
"Apart from the worrying statement in the magazine, I have never had a problem with the Caravan Club. The subscription pays for itself and I enjoy the CLs"

This was the point of my initial post, no argument with the quality of sites or the CL network, just the attitude of the organisation in general to motorhomers - there appears to be very little recognition that an increasing proportion of the membership of the CC are not tuggers. Surely they can see that by the site records, and should be changing accordingly.
The Camping club changed their name years ago when they recognised that caravanners were an integral part of the club; when will the Caravan club acknowledge the fact that the mix of "units" is changing - what about a change of name?  
I note (especially in the winter months) that a larger proportion of pitches are being taken up by motorhomes: how long before "we" are in a majority? An organisation that does not respond to public demand will not survive.


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## lecky7 (May 29, 2005)

*The Caravan Club*

This Club is becoming a pain in the neck to us Motorhomers, I had a bash at them a while back about towing cars with Aframes, whats it to do with them, I sent an e-mail to the woman tech person!! telling her that she wants to get a grip & sort out these caravanners who tow large 4 wheel caravans & have'nt got a clue, two passed us the other day on the M5 doing about 80 mph ( not travellers either) -- she replied that it was the law & it was advice in the Mag, I replied that it was a grey area & nobody has a definite statement to make, so please leave us alone, no response--- now I hear they have started again ref. " wild camping" what mischief will they get up to next


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## rodders (May 1, 2005)

Been away for a while back for a few days.

Interesting!!! if like me you have a few old cc magazines from the on route days, look closely for years the freedom to roam was a full part of caravaning.
Calling in on the local farm to ask if it was ok the camp in his field, any out there remember the enameled jug and milk warm from the cow or goat,the caravan club extolled these as virtues yet call wild camping.
Casual camping was at the centre of the club when it was formed (organised sites are a modern addition) even now there is the odd article reminiscing about the old days and how people yearn for the simplicity it offered.
I cannot profess to enjoy the simple side and my kit affords most of the home comforts and some.

I will continue to be a member like many but there is a degree of hypocrisy within the club and its senior members. no doubt the same ones the think they are a cut above mere mortals.

The club is still a club but commercial pressures run it, depriving many of the benefits it should bring.. Thakfully many of its sites are run by and for members which is why I retain membership.

Motor Home facts is far more " a club " and offers benefits and camaraderie the CC is loosing faster than they realise.

In one of my first posts i said the caravan club started with fewer members than MHF I repeat that sentiment and thank Nuke and the mods for what is now being formed.

Rodders


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## 88923 (May 10, 2005)

I've been a member of both clubs for years as a tugger and MH owner. I've never had any real problems from the wardens other than the occasional look of concern when they realise I'm on my lonesome...... 8O but I would get that at any site commercial or otherwise. 

If we want to make changes we have to lobby the powers that be. Complaining about it here will get it off our chests but will make no difference. If you're not happy - get writing.

On the subject of people being friendly - MH's or tuggers - my experience is that most of the time, if you're on your own, they either want to mother you or completely ignore you!  

I've mentioned this in the past...why do we wave like crazy at eachother on the road and mumble a 'hello' when we park next to eachother on site.
Strange but true :lol: 

Banjo 8)


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

banjo said:


> If we want to make changes we have to lobby the powers that be. Complaining about it here will get it off our chests but will make no difference. If you're not happy - get writing.
> 
> Banjo 8)


Yes and I have had my reply. At least if you write yourself, you can express your views in your own way and highlight the points you particularly want to.

I do find it disappointing that with nearly 5500 members on this list, statistically that means over 2000 are club members, yet only 156 votes have been cast and only 10 percent of posts on the subject have been posted by 'newbies'.

With results like these, we are largely left to draw our own conclusions regarding the wider views and we will always be treated as a minority by the club who I am sure are watching the thread with interest.

peedee


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## 88915 (May 10, 2005)

Following is a copy of an e-mail I sent to the caravan club on this subject:-

“I refer to the Club Council report in the March magazine, specifically Mr Richardson's comments:-

....reports have been received of motorcavanners claiming rights to "wild camping" (such as those which exist for backpackers in Scotland). No such rights exist, and unauthorised caravanning meant those responsible could be woken by police in the night and moved on. The club would not allow motor cavannners to call at its sites simply to empty tanks and replenish water supplies and then move on, as this would be encouraging wild camping.The Chairman said he would be speaking on wild camping at a conference in Italy. Wild camping is even more of a problem on the continent than it is here, he said." 
I'm not a wild camper to any extent; I normally use formal sites, and aires in France, I've never felt particularly safe wild camping. 
I think this report is typical of the attitude of the CC to motorhomers - we are tolerated but not to be encouraged. 
A couple of points I would comment on - 

1) The C& CC have a motorhome stopover at about half it's sites - you can dump, fillup & use the showers for a smallish fee. Why do they think it's a good idea & not the CC? Maybe it's more of we don't want these people parking up & not using our sites, we'd lose alot of money.... 
2) If it's illegal & you might get moved on by the police, why are there thousands of truckers parked up in lay-bys all over the country everynight? Do the police knock these up & move them on? Of course they don't , it's doing nobody any harm, and there's no nuisance caused. 
3) What conference was this in Italy? Can members have a report on it, and what is the Club's official line on "wild camping" and where has it originated from?

Is wild camping that much of a problem on the continent? I agree that there can be problems with motorhomes parking in inappropriate places, but local tourist organisations in France, Germany,etc, actively encourage motorhomers to visit their towns & villages by providing parking areas with facilities to dump their toilets & grey water and refill with fresh water for a few euros (or free!); this brings in valuable income to local businesses. This may be impracticable in many parts of these overcrowded islands, but they should at least be considered in rural areas - see Motorcaravan magazine's stopovers campaign. 
The club should recognise that there is less of a requirement for motorhomers to use full site facilities because they are largely self contained; some people want the full services, some don't, as the arguments over hook-ups has shown.
The statistics from site bookings will show that the proportion of motorhomes on sites is increasing - the club should be recognising the changed requirements of a large percentage of its membership, and look at how they can be better catered for. A stopover facility would be one way of addressing this, rather than saying "we don't like it, we won't allow it".
The club should acknowledge that some motorhomers are going to wild camp or park up "off site" - not every night, but occasionally, and it would be better for them to have the facility to dump their waste responsibly for a small fee and move on, rather that have no facility available, and possible dispose of waste irresponsibly.
In other words, this should be seen as an opportunity to bring in further income, rather than a threat of a loss of income.” 
(End of e-mail)




I have received a reply on paper, rather than by e-mail which makes it rather long winded to reproduce, but I have extracted some details – the reply is actually from Mr Richardson, the exec secretary. 
He goes into a great deal of detail about HGV’s and the club’s lobbying to get the 3.5 ton limit on licenses extended as an example of “how the club works hard to further the interests of mtorcaravanners”. He says lorries “are not touring caravans used for leisure purposes”, but does not address my argument about whether there is any difference between a trucker parking up & sleeping in the cab and a motorhomer doing the same (even if the motorhomer has full catering & washroom facilities!)
The conference mentioned was “arranged by leading European caravan & camping clubs to address the plummeting reputation {his words} of touring caravnners across Europe and especially in the tourist hotspots in the summer. Irresponsible pitching on private land and the rising level of crime at aires de service are both of great & growing concern. European counties don’t have the same kind of legislative base for touring caravanning as that which exists in the UK. The chairman has been asked to explain the Uk legislation at the conference” I assume that we acknowledge there are problems caused all over the place by irresponsible parking & overnighting, but he seems to be bunching all aires together when we know there is a problem with crime at aires on autoroutes, but not generally elsewhere, and as for “plummeting reputation” is this real, or just a reaction from camp site owners? We await reports from this conference. 
He has not addressed my query as to why a stopover at club sites for a dump & refill will not be provided, apart from a very long response about how the club was formed & the Caravan Sites & Control of Land Act 1960. He is basically saying that land used for touring caravan activities in the UK must be licensed under the Act (apart from exempted sites such as CL’s & CS’s). “The responsibilities attached to these privileges are summarized in the caravan code which is published in the Handbook each year. Club members agree to abide by this rule; it is a condition of membership. Members have therefore agreed to pitch only on private land with the express permission of the landowner.” Members of the CC wild camping should therefore be expelled if we follow the rules. But this does not stop the use of private land (agreed to by the owner) as a stopover and use of facilities at club sites (as is available at C& CC sites mentioned in my letter) – nothing is then being done in breach of the Act or the rules. 
On the other points, he says “you have advocated the introduction of stopovers in the UK. The club would support the introduction of properly licensed stopovers. Attempts have been made to provide such services at motorway service areas. Objections were made, not from the club, but from the operators” I wouldn’t want to use a m/way service area as a stopover, even if it was officially sanctioned – too noisy & it would be too expensive. Also he says that the proportion of motorcaravans to caravans at club sites remains roughly the same, statistic show that the numbers overall have increased. And a bit of promotional material:- “We are informed by the caravan industry that this surge in popularity is a direct result of the club’s continued campaign to raise public awareness of the huge contribution made by caravanners to responsible sustainable tourism. Currently just over half the Motorcaravan owners in the UK are members of the club and we are committed to serve their interests. I agree that there will always be some who will pitch ‘off site’, however, it is better that they do so in full knowledge of the legislative situation” I think he has agreed with my last paragraph here, but does not acknowledge that the club should provide dump & refill facilities! How do they know what ‘unit’ a member has apart from when they use club sit?

So, there you are, sorry it’s so long. I think my main comment is that we should keep up the pressure & get some lobbying done on the Caravan Club; it’s no good moaning on here if we don’t let them know. He at least acknowledges that some people will wild camp, but is basically saying it’s illegal to wild camp, so we’re not going to provide dump & refill facilities; also, keep an eye out for the reports on this conference.

btw - if anybody wants a faxed copy of the full reply please pm me with you fax number & I will oblige.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Mike,
Not much different from the response I got. You asked a few more questions. I only asked what did they mean by "wild camping" and had they abandoned any consideration for the setting up of overnight facilities for motorhomes possibly similar to the continental style "Aires" ? Most of what you quote was also said in my letter but it was also pointed out;

"The very recent Anti-Social Behaviour Act has reduced the number of caravans (or motor caravans) required to constitute an offence of unauthorised camping to two. Our members should be aware of this."

I am like most in this country, I rarely wild camp, but I would like to see a cheaper option for overnighting in a secure and peaceful environment. If this means staying on CL's and CS's I don't mind but I do want somewhere more convenient than typical CL/CS facilities to dump my waste and it would be helpful if CL entries indicate they were suitable for larger motorhomes.

peedee


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Agree with you 200% Mike, the only way forward is to complain direct to the club(s) if you are not happy, the only way things are going to get changed is to get out there and do something about it, e mail, write and above all attend meetings and ask questions. I personally have not felt any anti MH feelings from wardens in either club and am happy with the service I get from them and the site fees charged. But if that changed then I would want to make my feelings known, as I have done over this issue :wink:


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## Jules (May 23, 2005)

Well, we've just spent the weekend at Moreton in Marsh caravan club site. It was our first stay at a club site, only used a CL before and we weren't sure what to expect, especially after reading some comments on here.
Have to say there were lots of motorhomes their at least 50/50 with caravans. We could pitch were we liked, the only rules seemed to be for caravans as to how they parked up, but this could have been to spare the grass, early in the season. On the whole it was clean, quiet, with good facilities. The only negative was that it was that the pitches were a little regimented, but I think thats to be expected on a large club site. We didn't feel discriminated against in any way, so generally a good experience so far.
Jules and Hermonie


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

I thought I would resuurect this thread because the august CC magazine has an article on page 9 "Chairman defends sustainable tourism". I think the conference referred to in the reply to my query earlier in this thread is this one. 

I quote (edited):-
In a hard-hitting speech, Club Chairmab Bob Black recently condemmed the growth in Europe of facilities that encourage wild camping. Along with the vast majority of site owners across Euope, the CC had invested huge sums to provide facilities that comply with national & international legislation." Free unregulated facilities which encourage wild camping is not free - the people who indulge in it pay with the reputation earned by the responsible caravanner" The cc chairman went on to explain that in Britan wild camping is against the law. The only legal form of caravanning was on licenced sites or land covered by a certificate of exemption. "The position is quite clear - use licenced land or land covered by exemption or you commit an offence"
end of quote

Now that seems to me a moan from a vested interest, as they think that they will lose out financially to wild camping. 
Motorhome users look out - if the CC get their way the rest of Europe will end up like the UK. I suggest that everybody who cares about this write to Mr Black, and try to get over the point that we don't all want to (and / or don't need to) stay on full facility sites. The club members are not all tuggers who want to park on a sqare of gravel in line with all the others hooked up & plumbed up.

Any more new comments on this? Also please advise if you write in to the CC.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

bognormike said:


> Motorhome users look out - *if the CC get their way the rest of Europe will end up like the UK.* I suggest that everybody who cares about this write to Mr Black, and try to get over the point that we don't all want to (and / or don't need to) stay on full facility sites. The club members are not all tuggers who want to park on a sqare of gravel in line with all the others hooked up & plumbed up.
> 
> Any more new comments on this? Also please advise if you write in to the CC.


Looking at France alone I would say not a hope in Hell!
In the French Camping-Car magazine received yesterday there is a detachable list of 100 new aires de service which were not able to be included in the 2005 book published in February.
Of these there are 69 as it were free-standing ie not on camp-sites and which have adjacent overnight parking. This doesn't suggest to me there is a will in France to outlaw overnighting on any other than recognised camp-sites. In fact rather the opposite.
It Is certainly true that there are a number of camp-site operators in specific areas who wish to curtail wild camping as this is injurious to there trade but as far as I know, there is no evidence of a national campaign.


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## Yorky (May 10, 2005)

Hello all
What is the definition of camping?
Is stopping somewhere off road to sleep for the night in a car or lorry either because your driving hours are up or you are to tired to continue classed as camping?
I don't often camp outside CL's anymore but when I did there was nothing outside the van to indicate that I was anything other than parking.
The trouble with the CC is they have no other concept of camping other than windbreaks chairs BBQ's and awnings.
Regards Eddie.


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## 89411 (May 22, 2005)

i like most was disapionted with cc comments on wild camping as overall i have been extremely pleased with the club much more so than c&cc 

i think the real problem is that most of us chose motorhomes becuase we like some freedom but it is getting extremely difficult to go anywhere without booking unless you wildcamp!
we recently looked into going to the lakes for october half term and many sites were already full!
another problems which has already been mentioned is the late arrival - often to make the best use of time we set off after school on fridays but this usually means arriving on sites late which is often not possible - sometimes if we are travelling a long way we need somewhere just for the night so the stopovers suggested earlier would be just the ticket! 
lets keep trying


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## 88810 (May 9, 2005)

Did anyone else see the other gem re motorhomes in the latest CC mag. Page 8 "short and sharp"

This was requesting Motorhome owners to disconnect their hook up when out as trailing live leads cause a danger to children and animals. Now come on these are CC sites "dogs must be on a lead" and "children should be with parents" it says so in most of the toilet blocks lol. 

We personally always disconnect at the hook up point if we do leave the lead we also wrap both ends up against rain danger.

I think this is just the monthly dig at us.

Another point can anyone tell me why in the classifieds Mothorhomes come after caravans and awnings. Caravans I can undertsand but not why they should follow awnings.


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## 89468 (May 24, 2005)

The CC Chairman does seem to be on something of a crusade about this issue recently. The August copy of the Club magazine contains another report of his comments (again at a conference in Italy) regarding, 'the growth in Europe of facilities that encourage wild camping'. He went on to say that, 'the people who indulge in it pay with the reputation earned by the responsible caravanner'.

As a recent newcomer to both motorhoming and membership of the Caravan Club, I must say that I found the comments a bit strong. His assertion that if you do not park on land which is licensed or covered by an exemption, then you are committing an offence, sounds decidely shaky to me in legal terms, although I have no clear understanding of the view taken by the many councils around the UK.

That said, I have to acknowledge the fact that on every occasion when I have made a reservation on a CC site this year, the wardens have been nothing other than helpful. I always phone them in advance to warn them that my RV is 30' long and this has always ensured that I get onto a suitable pitch. There is always a sizeable percentage of pitches taken by motorhomes and no discrimination is evident, either from the wardens or caravan owners.

If there is a problem, then it is with the upper echelons of the CC, who do seem to be making a political issue out of what surely is a very minor problem. After all, I have yet to see any fields, laybys, or any other public or private land covered in wild-camping motorhomes. If other countries see fit to provide facilities for motorhomes to dump waste and refill water tanks, then they obviously do this to boost tourism and enhance the experience of visitors. They probably also minimise any problems that might otherwise be caused by the very small minority of irresponsible motorhomers who are tempted to dump waste in inappropriate places.

If the truth be known, then it sounds more like the CC getting out of its pram about a bit of competition, rather than any concern about the law being broken.


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

I dont use CC sites, well I havn't much yet. I dont really want to join any clubs, but why dont the motorhome fraternity, OBJECT to the rantings that we're reading about, maybe collectively from sites such as MHF.
And why would the CC see m/homers as competition, just because a minority, occasionally wildcamp, they are probably CC members any how.

I say give him a pasting and threaten to withdraw membership en mass, that'll frighten the cr** out of him.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

badger said:


> I say give him a pasting and threaten to withdraw membership en mass, that'll frighten the cr** out of him.


I doubt it? The whole problem is they have far too many members to worry about a few motorhomers who want to wild camp or want cheaper stop over facilities.. Do agree the leadership is stuck in a time warp though. Tthere again they have no need to change because they are making too much money from all the caravanners of which only a very small portion bothers about how the club is run.

peedee


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Have I missed an earlier posting ? Surely the fact that the CC offer a £4.50 Stopover price to motorhomers ( fill up, dump waste, use laundry and showers, charge batteries) means that they realise that MHs do wild camp and are willing to provide them with the means to carry on doing so.

I don't think the C and CC do the same.

G


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## fjmike (May 10, 2005)

Flame me if I'm wrong Grizzly but I think you will find it is the other way round CCC will do a "stop over" at some sites, but CC its strictly a no no.I will be writing my letter to the chairman of CC to clarify a few misunderstandings he has about wildcamping/ aires


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Other way round grizzly, caravan club don't, c & cc do. :wink: 

pete.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

8O They are all Clubs and a waste of money. I'll stick to Wild-Camping thank you very much. :wink:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Apologies all round and sorry for that. You are right; it is the C and CC that do the £4.50 stop overs. I'll shut up and stick to my last !

G


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## 89309 (May 19, 2005)

I don't think that the CC powers that be realise how many members they have are motorhomers. If they did they may change their tune to stay in a job.

Motorhome are on the up while caravans are on the decline, the writing is on the wall and the CC would be best to heed the warning. Either they move with the times or loose out to other clubs.

Perhaps I ought to stand for chairman next time, with a motorhome agenda, could be fun.

Trevor (trust me I own a motorhome)


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## 88870 (May 10, 2005)

OK, so the comments made by the CC (in original post) were definitely not made on my behalf - couldn't disagree with them more- but I do make full use of their CL's and have no gripe there. I only tend to use the cheaper CL's - if I wanted to pay £10 a night, i'd pay an extra couple of quid and book up in a campsite. :?

Incidently, I have found a CC campsite down in Cornwall that was only £8.50 per night peak season (inc 2 adults and pitch) *because it had no toilet/shower block*, it was lovely. Compared to my local site (Ferry Meadows) which is about £17 per night peak season (inc 2 adults and pitch) all because I can pee in their loo's! 8O


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Know it well, regualrly use it. A little uneven and can be hell in the wet. The club should have more of this type of site. Instead of bleating they cannot find more sites, perhaps they should develop a partnership with some CL owners and develop them into similar sites. Incidently there is a very good, small adults only site not far from this site.

peedee


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

We are booked in for one night at Slinfold next week - Caravan Club, £5 for the night. I don't know quite whether that includes electricity , sanitation etc but there is nothing to lead us to think otherwise. There are a few other sites on the same tariff.

Makes a good stopover point for the night ( I hope !) 
G


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## aido (May 17, 2005)

*post*

just as i said in an earlier post the c.c is a waste of time and money.i will not be renewing my membership when it expires this month.but will continue to be a member of the c&cc which i find very friendly.........aido :


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## 89660 (Jun 2, 2005)

We normally get a better ferry crossing through the CC, but this year Norfolkline have offered the same rate to everyone(£88)


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## 95853 (Jul 25, 2005)

I am a member of both the CCC and CC club. 

Up until recently I towed a Hobby caravan and did not notice any prejudice against it at all - in fact many wardens and other site users were intrigued (and impressed by it) and wanted to look around it.

I do hope that as a (soon to be) motorhomer I will find no such prejudice exists at site level.

I have always found that with both clubs you get exactly what you would expect of them, i.e;

- exquisite but expensive sites, which are a little to tidy and regimented for some

I hope to use the CL and CS network much more now. In particular the CCC temporary holiday sites seem to represent very good value.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Coral,
I am also member of both clubs but I have only been a member of the C&CC for about four years and joined them because I was getting a little fed up with the CC policy towards Motorhomes plus I wanted a wider choice of cheaper sites. Like many on this list, we were previously caravan owners and as such fully enjoyed our membership of the CC and made many new friends. It is those friendships which keeps us members, not its policies. If our introduction to "caravanning" had been solely as a motorhome owner I doubt we would now be a members.

peedee


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## 89468 (May 24, 2005)

Given that this thread has now run to 91 posts and has been read by 4,968 people, isn't there a case for someone contacting the CC on behalf of the Motorhome Facts membership asking for a statement of their position with regard to the status of motorhome owners? At the same time, it might also be appropriate to ask for clarification of the comments made by the chairman regarding wild camping and its legality?

Maybe the MHF don't want to get directly involved though. In which case, a number of well-coordinated letters from individuals might be the way to approach it.


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## badger (May 9, 2005)

And while they're at it.....point out the following statement, taken from the Caravan clubs own website.

Note to Editors

As Europe's premier touring organisation, The Caravan Club represents the interests of over 850,000 caravanners, *motor caravanners *and trailer tent owners. For more information visit The Club's award-winning website at www.caravanclub.co.uk

Someones not paying attention to their own advertising!!!!!


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