# Built in generator refuses to start



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I have a 2003 Autotrail Dakota SE and the built in generator (electric start Honda powered) wont start. the supplying agent had it back in early December because it refused to go, when I got it back the genny started and ran perfectly.

Its been stood for a few weeks and now refuses to start at all. It turns over fine but just will not fire!!

After cranking for about a minute on full choke the spark plug is only just about damp so it looks like no fuel is getting through. Also when I remove the carb drain plug theer is no fuel. The fuel tank is about 1/4 full (fuel level is clearly below the carb.) So the BIG question is "Does this genny have a fuel pump or does it rely on gravity like most generators?? (I cannot find a fuel cut off switch anywhere either)

I am wondering if when the agent had it back and played with it they took it out of its cradle and ran it on the bench with a cobbled up gravity feed. that would have left some fuel in the carb whuich is what it started on when I got it home and tried it. That residual amount of fuel has since evaporated hence the no start situation!

I suppose I could just fill the petrol tank up and see if that cures the fault but it seems more than a bit daft having a fuel tank that fails to feed the carb when its half empty!! There is a filter twixt tank and genny and there is fuel going through it (so ist not clogged and restricting the flow)

Has anyone else had this problem, if so how did you get round or fix it. the agents have told me to get it looked at locally and they will pay the bill which is pretty fair of them ( its a 60 mile round trip every time I go back to the dealer, but no-one locally is interested in looking at it (its a bu***er to get too underneath the MH, itsin its own metal box which only the front comes off!)


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## PlanetGen (Feb 12, 2009)

Where in the world are you?
Simon


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

When I have a problem with a lawnmower or other device and it will not start, I tip an egg cup of petrol over the air filter, generally gets them going. (Be carefull!)

Or use some Easy Start.

Peter


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I am based in Weymouth

Cant do the egg cup of fuel into the air filter, the air intake draws upwards not downwards !! (thought of that already, havnt tried easy start though)


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## PlanetGen (Feb 12, 2009)

Can you get the van to Wellington?


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Sounds like 'stale' fuel 8O


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*generator not starting*

I would be very careful using easy start, you need to turn the fuel supply off remove the spark plug turn it over to make sure that any petrol present is blown out, replace the plug turn fuel on DO NOT use the choke open the throttle slightly if you can (as most generator automatically open the throttle wide until the required engine speed is reached) spray a short burst of e/start into the air cleaner and then try to start it. Do not spray into the engine whilst cranking it you could blow the cylinder head off. Easy start is very flammable take great care.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

If its "stale" fuel its diffiocult to see how it was running fine a few weeks ago. 

Also fuel takes a loooong time to go stale and it has a very peculiar smell. Which this lot doesnt have.

It would appear that fuel is not getting to the carb (open the carb drain and nowt comes out!!) 

If there is no fuel getting to the engine 9as in dry plug) whats the point of even trying easyb start, all that will do is get the engine to fire a couple of times and then stop. 

Thats why I was asking if 
a) These things have a fuel pump or is gravity fed and 
b) has anyone esle had the same or similar problem??
c) If so what fixed it?


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*gnerator not starting,*

if the generator has a fuel pump in the system starting it on easy start will help it to prime, if it will run on e/start but will not keep running you will know it is down to the fuel supply.


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## men4motors (Oct 27, 2009)

HI, fuel will be gravity fed,see if you can get at feed pipe from tank to carb possibly collasped or kinked if plastic type,dont like cold weather. If metal, could be full of sediment causing a blockage,check for spark if all checks are ok possibly head gaskit problem.Cheers and good luck.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Check the oil level (not a silly idea)

Loddy


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

If its a tec29 then you need to press the off button first to set the choke for a cold start. (I think!) And the low oil sensor will turn OFF the engine.


C.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

Sounds like, float needle valve stuck, had this happen on various garden gear, especialy if petrol is old. Spelling O/K?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Men4motors many thanks for that. Its what I was starting to suspect. The level of fuel in the tank (its about 1/4 full) is now actually BELOW the level of the carb. Going back to my schoolboy physics gravity wont work uphill will it ???

Thats why I was asking if anyone knew if it wass pumped or gravity feed !!

I reckon its a trip out to the petrol station in the morning to get the petrol level up in the tank. Its does seem a Cr** system if thats the cawse though doesnt it ???


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

CAWSE ??? :lol:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Mrplodd said:


> I have a 2003 Autotrail Dakota SE and the built in generator (electric start Honda powered) wont start. the supplying agent had it back in early December because it refused to go, when I got it back the genny started and ran perfectly.
> 
> Its been stood for a few weeks and now refuses to start at all. It turns over fine but just will not fire!!
> 
> ...


Hi Mr Plodd,

You have a PM.

Jock.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Finally got it looked at by a Honda small engine expert, the fault was ...........

HUGE amount of water in the petrol   like 2 parts water to 1 part petrol !!

Filler cap is always locked and the seal around it is intact, only other hole in the tank is the fuel outlet and the breather pipe !!

I have never actually had the filler cap off 'cos the tank looked about half full of what I thought was petrol.

I reckon than some numpty in the past started filling the fresh water tank via the petrol filler neck, realised the error but did sod all about rectifying the fault by draining the tank!!

NO NOT ME !!! :roll: :roll: I have the key to the petrol filler tucked away in the cab to prevent exactly that sort of mistake.

At least if I have further bother I will know exactly where to start the diagnosis procedure.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> Finally got it looked at by a Honda small engine expert, the fault was ...........
> HUGE amount of water in the petrol   like 2 parts water to 1 part petrol !!
> 
> .


How does that stack up with your original post "the supplying agent had it back in early December because it refused to go, when I got it back the genny started and ran perfectly"?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

EXACTLY !!!!!!!

The chap who sorted it yesterday asked the very same question!!!

I have no idea at all, there does not seem to be any LOGICAL explanation unless the dealers rigged up a different supply, got it running and handed it back with just a carb full of petrol (which would allow me to start it when I got home) which does seem a bit much to believe doesnt it??

There is just nowhere for all this water to have got in other than via the filler which has allways been locked. No point having something with a lock if you dont use it is there?? besides these filler caps are expensive items and its dead easy to nick one thats not locked on!!!

One thing is certain I did NOT use the wrong filling point (different colour caps, different keys on different keyrings. Water filler key is on the ignition key ring, the other is kept inside the van)


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## men4motors (Oct 27, 2009)

Good result problem sorted,genny fuel viar main tank, pick up pipe for genny set length so when main tank level reaches quarter full no petrol for genny so as not to empty main tank.As for water in with fuel you could be right,as genny is in confined space condensation could also be the contributing factor?just a thought.Cheers Bruce.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Bruce

Nice ideas BUT.......

The MH is diesel and the genny has its own dedicated remote fibreglass fuel tank, It is just behind the back wheel though. I cant see its porous because if it was the petrol would leak out as its less dense than water.

The fuel outlet is only a short distance (about 1cm) above the bottom of the tank. I am a bit loathe to put another hole in the tank further up (lack of access to the inside so sealing the outlet might prove problematic!!

I did consider the condensation issue but thought a gallon of condensation to be a bit extreme, the tank is only just open to the air via the breather pipe so the exchange of air would be minimal. 

At least it now functions as it should (lets hope that situation now continues)

it is interesting that no-one else seems to have suffered in the same way so I am once more drawn back to the 

"Oh s*** this is the petrol tank not the freshwater filling point" scenario


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Mrplodd said:


> it is interesting that no-one else seems to have suffered in the same way so I am once more drawn back to the "Oh s*** this is the petrol tank not the freshwater filling point" scenario


I'm no gambler, but as an owner of the same system, I'm having a tenner on your theory. :lol:

Regards,

Jock.


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## men4motors (Oct 27, 2009)

If you bought camper privately maybe previous owner may know whats happend,if bought from a dealer should have been checked prior to sale.
Good luck, if you ever come to IoWight let us know Cheers Bruce.


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