# Puppies and sleep



## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi everyone

As some may know, we have a lovely nearly 12 week old Golden Retriever pup. She's fit and well (after a couple of UTIs), and is eating, drinking and training well. She's had her first injection, and has her 2nd this Wednesday, so shortly after that we'll be able to walk her properly in the outside world.

We seem to be having a problem with her (and our) sleep time. She has a number of naps during the day (she's having one now after her breakfast) of around 1-2 hours. She seems tired at night, and I take her out into the garden at around midnight, and she does whatever she needs to do, but then won't go into her crate easily unless I let her fall asleep on the floor first, and then shove her in when she's half asleep.

She will then wake up at around 2-3 am, needing to go outside (she's housetrained), but then doesn't want to go back into her crate. The books say she should go straight back into her crate afterwards, but she resists, and then barks and howls when the door is shut. It's really difficult to get her to settle down again. I don't want her to feel that the crate is a punishment, and by all accounts, she should see it as her safe area.

The crate is a plastic travel type, and we put a fleece towel and a toy in there, and she has a water container on the inside of the door.

We're completely new to bringing up a dog, and we have no experience or knowledge of what to expect or what we should be doing.

Any ideas, anyone? :? 

Gerald


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## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Try a treat or reward - we use dog choc drops (cut in half) or a frolic as a reward but not every time eg our two have to go in their beds at night time and they know that there is a treat so they are in their beds in a flash
Eventually it becomes a habit and a reward is not always necessary
Richard


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

We have never used a crate for any of our puppies.

Usually they have settled into their beds ok although at night initially we left their beds in the kitchen so any accidents could be easily cleaned up.

Maybe your puppy just doesn't like being shut in a crate.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Gerald,

Methinks you are trying and worrying too hard. That's the route to the dog controlling you.

Dave


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

It sounds like when we first had our own babies doesnt it.  
It will become habit if you dont watch out so what I would do is wrap a jumper of mine up with a clock and put that in the crate and see if she will sleep with that.
I would say she was lonely and dont forget you have moved so that may have unerved her.
Or she is just being crafty :lol: 

Mavis


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

DABs is right Gerald. Even though you don't like doing it, stick with it.

It's your habits Tess has to get used to, not the other way round. 8O

I'd try leaving the radio on at a low volume. That may help settle her.

Never underestimate even a very young dog, especially that breed. The little sod is trying it on, and if you let her win now you will find it very difficult to change when she's older.

Don't worry about shoving her in her cage either, so long as you praise her lavishly at the same time and give her a few treats. She won't see it as a punishment, and will eventually get used to it.

Don't respond to her whining too readily either, or you will be rewarding undesirable behaviour. She will think, _"Oh, this is good. I whine and somebody comes to play with me. Easy peasy, I'll whine whenever I feel a bit lonely."_

This is a difficult one, because you want her to ask to be let out for a pee, but you don't want the whining and howling at night just to gain attention. It will be a lot easier for you in a few weeks time as she will be able to hold her water all night by then, and you can ignore the attention seeking without fear of her weeing in the cage.

Our little swine is 14 months now and we can't stop her pulling on the lead, in spite of trying all the Cesar Millan tricks for months!! So she is having to wear a Canny Collar which she hated at first.>> see here <<

She loves her walks of course, but as soon as we picked up the lead she would bolt and hide under the table, but we just dragged her out and made her have the collar on, praising all the time we were putting it on of course.

It has taken six weeks, and she still doesn't like it much, but she doesn't bolt any more. She's still a bit reluctant to have it on, and turns her head away when we put the strap over her nose, but she has now accepted it and no longer tries to rub it off on the grass.

They are critters of habit Gerald, even if it's sometimes difficult to get the right habits established, but if you persevere she will accept it . . . . and she certainly won't hate you for making her do as she's told. Dogs don't think like that!  

Hope this helps.


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## JollyJack (Aug 14, 2005)

I don't think this is unusual so I'd not worry - just persevere. We had a crate for Ellie but she hated it and barked and barked for ages - we tried to just ignore her but very difficult. We wondered if she was testing us! I woudn't like to be in a crate.. but you do need to show who the boss is! I think once you are able to take her walks and give her plenty of excercise she will improve. Puppies have so much energy! Also get her used to the idea of having a treat (I believe this is called the "Sublimation Method") - taking her to puppy training is also a good idea. You can get a spray that you can spray on her bed etc to make her feel more relaxed - your vet will advise and tell you about it. Hope this helps.

Bob


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## Burneyinn (Oct 27, 2006)

We used a crate for the first time with our latest retriever who is now 6 months.

She complained for a while every time we put her in it.

Now she's house trained we don't use it at all. She's quite happy to sleep on her mat, it's the same in the motorhome.

A crate is a great aid for the first few months, but now she's older we won't use it again.

But that's just us.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

A a devotee of the Manic Mexican, 

A happy dog is calm and submissive. When she comes in after her midnight pee, I would take the time to wait for her to calm down, and then put her into her crate. Dont shut the door until she calms down again, blocking and correcting the wails etc, even to the touch bite thing described by the Man himself. Once she is calm and submissive then shut the door, and walk off. 

I wouldnt offer a reward for this until shes absolutely settled. and even then only a physical touch . However, it may also be useful to place her crate nearer to you , if possible, bearing in mind that dogs are pack anmals and tend to sleep as a pack, next to and amongst each other. 

On a different note, I wonder if Dogs are being removed from the litter earlier these days, as I recall when I had young pups as a kid, the dog was considered too young to take from the litter until after about 16 weeks. This is so they get used to the etiquette of socialising themselves. 
Maybe I'm going daft in my advancing year.


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

Does the pup take her daytime naps in the crate?, she should do so with the door closed.
At all other times the door should be open so she can take herself in there when she needs time to herself.
We used the crate as a 'time out' place, i.e too excited, go and have a rest in your crate for 10 mins.

The advice on here is good, make sure she has a jumper or something with your smell on it in her crate so she feels comfortable at night, maybe spray a little DAP in there to calm her.

Perhaps offer a Kong stuffed with frozen peanut butter or similar to give her something to do.

Is the crate big enough, I ask this only because pups grow at an amazing rate and if she feels too confined she won't like it (our great dane had two cages in three months he grew so fast, although he had the metal fold up ones with a plastic floor, and we put a blanket over the topof it to make it more cosy and 'cave' like.

Being a parent of a pup is not easy, and does require some broken nights sleep but be reassured by this:-

An average pup takes six weeks to housetrain, my kids took years!!!!!!!


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

Sounds just like my son! He didn't sleep through the night until he was 18 months old, then only occasionally. He still doesn't sleep much.

He wasn't very keen on the cage either, but I persevered.  Just joking, honestly. 8O 8O :lol: 

Viv


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## Pollydoodle (Aug 18, 2005)

Bandaid

I thought when I was a kid, (just a couple of years ago :lol: :roll: )puppies left their mums at 6 or 8 weeks and kittens at 6. - not that I have had either for many years - no cats and only rescue dogs. The last puppy we had, our sons, was 13 weeks when he got her. (She's 7 and now ours) I thought they stayed together longer nowadays

PollyDoodle


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Some dog trainers like to see puppies in their new home as early as six weeks.

It certainly helps with the socialising, since they need as many new experiences as possible at a very early age, and after about 16 - 18 weeks it becomes very much more difficult to introduce them to new situations which might cause stress.

I'm inclined to think six weeks is a shade early. I'd prefer to leave them with mum until they are about 8 or 9 weeks, but that's only my opinion.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi everyone

Many thanks for the words of advice and of encouragement  

Bouncer - yes, she was taking her daytime naps on an 'open' quilted bed, or the floor. We've now stopped that, and with couple of treats initially, some crunchy kibble and encouragement, she's taking a nap in the crate now.

Annie's much better at keeping to a regime than me (34 years of teaching has something to do with it, I think) - I keep falling for the sad eyes  

Gerald


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## ktesis (May 11, 2005)

We too have just acquired a new puppy and went through a sleep deprivation phase! Our vet recommended a Dog Appeasement Pheromone diffuser. Hey presto within one night the dog slept through the night! The diffused Pheromone is that of a lacitating bitch and calms dogs down. We used it for a month after which sleep patterns were 'normal'!


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## dcmo (May 19, 2005)

My parents bred Golden retrievers and the last year has been the first time I have ever owned less than three. 

We have never used crates so I can't comment too much other than to say a puppy even at that age will hate to soil its sleeping area. Is the crate large enough for there to be reasonable separation from the sleeping and toilet area? A pup that age will need to go every 1-2 hours so I don't think you can let her out every time she needs to go overnight. 

(We have always simply left the pup in the kitchen with plenty of newspaper in a designated area near the back door and ignored the squeaks.)


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks again for the words of advice and encouragement.

We've been practising tough love, and blocking her when we put her in, ignoring the wailing. A tip we got from a book - when you put her in the crate, stay by her but with your back to her, so you're not 'indulging' her with her protests. And it worked really well.

Yesterday, we bought a bigger crate for her, and she slept from her last wee at 11.30 until 6.00am! A lie in!

We've put her open bed in the garage for the moment, and when she wants a nap during the day, we encourage her to use the crate. So it seems to be working  

Gerald


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## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

Just curious to know has a routine established itself yet?, or have the big sad eyes that are actually saying 'sucker!' got the better of you yet??

Hope you had a peaceful holiday season....


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

bouncer said:


> Just curious to know has a routine established itself yet?


My bet is the dog won, and the routine has been established with Gerald and Annie! :lol: :lol: :lol:

All these hints and tips are obviously very sensible and easy enough in theory, but if G & A stuck to them 100% they are better than me.  

Grace is very well trained in most things now, but we did have our little setbacks - mostly when Mrs Zeb and/or I (usually I) felt sorry for her and let her off . . . "_just this once_"!!!!! 8O 8O 8O

Dave


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The best results with crate training are obtained when the dog likes being in the crate :lol: All the advice about using treats etc are good. I used to advise treating the new crate like the best new toy you could possibly have bought them :lol: Your excitement rubs off on them. If there is a suspicion of an emotion akin to "I know its horrible going in a crate" then the puppy will pick it up. Dogs are den animals and if the crate is introduced properly THEY LOVE THEM.

She should be able to go through the night now without needing to toilet but all dogs are different! If you do take her out BE VERY BORING. She should not enjoy the experience at all otherwise she will get you up regularly. 

Try hard not to ever let her out of the crate if she is whining or barking. I know it is difficult but you are not going to leave her longer than she can cope so you must be the one to decide when she comes out. Make it earlier rather than later. I used to creep down to get to the crate before Gypsy woke up in order to teach her to wait quietly for release. Turning your back is good. You are ignoring bad behaviour which is excellent. 

Funny - my midwife told me to "never pick up a crying baby" same thing really.

Guide Dogs for the Blind put all their puppies out into homes at six weeks.
Scientific research shows that this is the optimum time emotionally speaking. If you can look after an 8 week old puppy then you can look after 6 week old one :lol: 

Well done on the housetraining Gerald.

Pat


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Forgot :roll: 
You can take a puppy out before the 2nd injection. She just must not go where an unvaccinated dog may have been.
This means she can go to other people's houses as long as any dogs there are vaccinated. She can be carried anywhere in a public place though I guess she is too big for that now.

She will go through a "fear period" soon. If it coincides with "going out" you may have problems. Here are a few tips:
If she shows any signs of "nerves" ignore her.
Let her plant herself until she is ready to move.
Stand beside her and wait. She is learning all the time. 
If she moves tell her how wonderful she is. ( that will make her stop again!)
If she stops ignore her again.
Reward all positive brave behaviour.

If she pulls on the lead stand still. If you follow her you are setting a precendent for the future.
She should follow you at all times. This means you will have to be very flexible with your outings. Do not plan anything other than that she will follow you. Every time she does so then praise her well and pop a tit-bit. Don't worry if you don't make it to the end of the road - it will seem like a marathon to the puppy :lol: 

Enrol in Puppy Classes run by the APDT (motto - Kind Fair and Effective) if you have not already done so.

Best Wishes

Pat


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