# Fresh Water Tank Frozen



## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Our pals have an Autotrail Arapaho and their fresh water tank is frozen.
Now I know you are all thinking that the weather could have something to do with it  but the tank became frozen whilst they were using the van last weekend that's why they had water in the tank.
As this weather is likely to continue for some time and the prospect of defrosting the tank seems like it maybe next April I wondered if any one could recommend anything to put into the tank to defrost it?
I know it is the fresh water tank so therefore I imagine you are limited to what additives you can use but is there anything that can be put into the tank to speed up the thawing process?
Thanks

Val


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Realistically, gentle heat is the only safe way to defrost it.

If the tank is frozen, so will the pipes.

Adding salt to a huge block of ice doesn't really melt it and it would take rather more than a few tins of Saxo (salt -not stuffing!) to make even a slight impression on it.

Forget any other additives - poison issues.


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

The tank must obviously be underslung variety with no heat to it.

I,m not sure what they can do here, if they want to regularly camp in the winter they need to either get some form of heating to the tank, fish tank heaters some use or i think you can buy specific heaters now for this task, or better still get a proper van for the winter, all tanks inside or heated.

Our waste tank is outside but there is a heating pipe going to it and the valve so whilst ever we have gas should not freeze.


Paul.


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

I agree, a small heater is the only real solution.

Available here

CAK tanks

The other option is to use low wattage mains heater cable, available from Pet shops (used in reptile tanks and aquariums). I think the trade name is " Rena Cor"

Trevor

edit

Found Rena Cor here:-

Rena Cor heater cable


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

The defrosting/melting process will be speeded up if, once the daytime temperature rises above freezing, they direct a fan onto the tank and pipes. If you can find a fan type greenhouse heater or another suitable fan heater they could use a small amount of heat as well to encourage the thaw. Do be careful though as water and mains electricity do not mix well :wink:

Mike


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks,I had a feeling heat was the only way forward!

Val


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Isnt the Autotrail Arapaho the big all singing and dancing tag axle job that costs a fortune?

Surely its winterised? I was considering one of those but not if its got external tanks.

Sorry Im no help but I assumed they would be winterised.


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Is the tank frozen or just the tap to empty it? Just a thought.

We are at present living in our Motorhome on a CL just down the road from home as we couldn't get it on our drive or safely out of the way of skidding vehicles!! Our tank is OK but the emptying tap is frozen and the lock to add water was frozen until we sprayed with de-icer.

When I say living - we're sleeping there, cooking evening meal but rest of the day at home. Have to get Motorhome MOT'd Tuesday then we'll get it back down our track hopefully.

Jan


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## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

trevorf said:


> The other option is to use low wattage *mains* heater cable, available from Pet shops (used in reptile tanks and aquariums). I think the trade name is " Rena Cor"


Thanks for the info Trevor - I had a look at the web site you linked and amazingly *it doesn't say 'mains' or '240volt' *but you are obviously correct 'cos 12 volt would be a non starter.

As it is mains cable I note that they show it in a *bed of sand *and they provide *at least four suction cups to keep it from flapping around *in the fish tank. I'm wondering how that would be in a MH fresh water tank, from a safety point of view I would be a tad worried even if it double insulated, flexible, and using modern high tech materials.

What do you think :?: What do others think :?: Would it be acceptable to push it down into the tank and switch on :?:

At the moment I don't need to use the van in winter, at least not with a full fresh water tank, so I've drained mine. But, *it would be handy *in the future to not have to worry and to be able to get out in sub zero temperatures


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

I doubt it is the whole tank that is frozen but just the pipework to the bits and bobs, my water froze a couple of years back when we stopped for the night in Andorra at the beginning of January with a temperature in daft degrees.
We drove down the road and after about a hour it defrosted itself, the temperature was still daft degrees so it must have been the air flowing round everything or the movement of any water in the tank that wasn't frozen defrosting it.

We live in our caravan at the coast and last year which was our first winter here our water froze up, hmm.
This year I just leave the water running a bit through the night on all the taps hot and cold, none of the pipework has frozen up, neither have they frozen in the waste pipework as the water is still above freezing passing through.

So I say take the van for a run it might free it all up as the temperature is now above freezing in most parts, it is a pretty low tech solution that might work, and it will get them out for the day...


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

When our waste tank outlet froze we cobbled together the fresh water tank filling hose into the shower feed, and just bathed it in hot water externally. A basin of hot water under it, or pipe some sort of heating duct from the camper at it?

If there is room in the tank you could also put hot water into it to raise the average temperature enough to defrost it. You could fill it with hot water, leave that till it cools, siphon it out to put more hot in?

Park it out of the wind, or even under cover? 

Jason


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## kandsservices (Sep 5, 2010)

Losos said:


> trevorf said:
> 
> 
> > The other option is to use low wattage *mains* heater cable, available from Pet shops (used in reptile tanks and aquariums). I think the trade name is " Rena Cor"
> ...


The tank heaters are 12volts dc as stated in there catalogue,one element will stop 45 litres of water freezing full decription on page 20 of there catalogue hope this helps.
Kev


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

Yes the tank heaters from CAK tanks are 12V but I think Losos was referring to my other link for the Rena Cor heater cable which is 230V mains.


Trevor


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Most British converters take the same view as British Rail I'm afraid in that freezing weather is not normal in Britain (how many freeze-ups does it take to constitute normal?) and therefore do not make proper provision for it. Of course when it does freeze, or you wish to go beyond our shores, then you have to face the consequences of such a 'value for money' policy. 

Ron


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## tramp (May 25, 2005)

Also they [ british convertors] have a wierd take on "winterisation" put the tank underneath near the "cold air" insulate the tank with polystyrene then not insulate the pipes to the tank 

getting too the tank will be hard and where you gonna run the 12v lead to and have a switch fitted which is fused, best bet is to drop the whole tank then insert heater and run cable throught the floor to dedicated switch.

Also the tank insulation prevents freezing but when froze it takes longer to defrost..... they never learn A water tanks place is in the nice warm van.

Our dethleffs had a winter pack fitted costing £2k gaurenteed down to -25c and tested too..

best of luck but dont light a fire as the insulation will melt.... try draining the tank and add hot water through the filler cap ..


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

Anyone know how the heater is actually held in place inside the tank? Or does it bounce/bob depending on water level?  

Jason


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> Hi
> 
> Anyone know how the heater is actually held in place inside the tank? Or does it bounce/bob depending on water level?
> 
> Jason


Here is a picture of the CAK Tanks heater during installation to the insulated water tank ( Autocruise/Swift) . It is fixed through the tank wall. Mine were fitted retrospectively at the dealer but I think they are now fitted at the manufacture stage if ordered to be.

The use of the heaters ( one in each tank, fresh and grey) in my van is automated by the Sargent control panel .. it will only come on if frost protection is selected and the tank is more that 1/4 full. Then an internal thermostat within the heater switches on at approx 4C and off at 10C

Also you can see some of the pipe insulation, in process of being fitted to the pipe in the background.

Mike


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## rupert1 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not sure all the posts about putting heaters in tanks and having fully winterised van are much help. However I would check if the tank is frozen solid, has it got an inspection hole. If it has than a little gentle heat from a hair dryer down the hole. In any case do the obvious, all drain taps open, including the boiler one.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

rupert1 said:


> Not sure all the posts about putting heaters in tanks and having fully winterised van are much help. .


I do agree but several of us did promply suggest what to do to alleviate the problem so this was just an interesting follow on in a topical thread and of course every post bumps the thread back to the top of the pile so that other folks see it and can add any alternative suggestions ...just as you have :wink:

Mike


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

spykal said:


> grizzlyj said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


Since the fish tank heaters can be fairly long, are you suggesting that a bit of glue/sealant at the tank wall is all they get? So the far end is unsupported?

And just to expand on my earlier post using the hot shower from inside the camper to defrost the grey waste outlet (the fluid inside was mostly fine), it took hours! The 70l black tank was also OK but with a frozen outlet, so eventually whacking it with a tent peg was used. It worked, but it kinda went everywhere! Luckily the dark and the cold had long since put off our audience during the grey tank operations! I now put a bit of screen wash into the waste tanks when empty which seems to have done the job since. I suppose some alcohol in the fresh tank would be fine, and not wasted as long as you drank it rather than showered? Indeed, why put water in at all? 

So if direct contact with hot water takes ages I'm not sure how long a hair dryer would take?! I gave up styling my beard ages ago so no longer carry a hair dryer anyway.

Jason


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> Since the fish tank heaters can be fairly long, are you suggesting that a bit of glue/sealant at the tank wall is all they get? So the far end is unsupported?


Hi Jason

The heaters are purpose made not fish tank heaters :lol: :lol:

And they are 12v not mains powered. Made of stainless steel with a threaded boss and brass nut, they are bolted through the tank wall. The sealant you see is just a bit of a belt and braces job to finish the fitting off. Don't worry if they were not up the job I would have been getting something done.

Check out the CAK tanks catalogue to see the details. Page 20 I think.

Mike


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)




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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

When we go away in early January, if the weather is terrible en route, we will simply travel with the fresh water tank empty and carry a ( disposable) jerry can of water. When normal service resumes we'll ditch the water carrier and fill the tanks. 

I know it's not as easy as having water from the taps but it does make me wonder a little if I'm the only person whose camped without hot and cold running water to order! We tend to think there is no alternative in our MHs but of course there is, for a minimal outlay in effort.

( Ron....read the European newspapers if you think British Rail are the only company suffering in this weather ! )

G


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## grandadbaza (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Val, I have a similar van the Comanche, and I ask a question of Auto Trail regarding the tank and heaters ,this is there reply,
Hi,



The factory fitted heaters turn on at 5 degrees.



These are thermostatic so as long as the switch is switch on they will stop and start automatically.



The part of the system that is most susceptible to freezing is the pump take off pipe. This is quite a small bore. If the insulation around this is not secure it will freeze quite easily. 



The access into the tank is in the base of each tank. To get to this you would need to remove the protective cover from the underneath.



Regards



Steve Moverley

Development Manager



Perhaps it is just the take off pipe to the pump that is frozen and a bit of gentle heat roundthat area might do the trick

Baza


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