# No mains earth



## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

I have trawled through the searches in forums, but cant find any references. 

I have noticed the a lot of continental sites are upgrading the electrical pillars to the blue 3 pin system (euro socket) but they do not have a earth, or at least the mains tester doesn't show it. How does one get over this for safety?
Any clues please.


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

Where did you get this info from ? I've been on a number of sites in France, Spain and Germany this year, which have the Blue 3 pin system and all where earthed including the site I'm on now.

Are you sure your tester isn't faulty ?


----------



## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Its a bit like running off a generator, you are supposed to use an earth spike. A copper rod driven into the ground which you then wire to the generator earth. 
A bit of pain really and fraught with difficulty because it is very difficult to get a good reliable earth this way. I have never ever seen any one camping do this so I guess like me they all take the risk of going without an earth.

So if it really bothers you, try an earth spike.

peedee


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Most likely you have lost the earth in your hook up cable, check it as a matter of urgency.

Both UK and continental regulations for outdoor installations have been stiffened up and whilst I am a little out of date I can't see that the French would have gone away from earthing. 


Some French sites have been reported as using the two pin connector without the metal side springs that convey the earth to that style of plug. it is possible that one of those sites has been upgraded by cowboys.


----------



## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi All
On my last trip the following camps have no earth that register. Tournai (camping Le Orient), Prague (Sunny camp) & Marienne Lanski or Marienabad (camp solar).
Yes Frank I checked my 25m and 50m leads, no faults. I also made up a device that plugs the tester straight into the Euro socket so I know before connecting to the van. 
Yes its the same scenario as when you connect to a external generator. Ok so stick a copper spike in the wet ground, but do you then connect this to the battery negative, as the van chassis is the same thing. What does everyone else do or don't they bother?
Kind regards


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Your RCD will still protect you without an earth, (if you test it about once a month and how many of us do that?).

Getting a reliable earth, less than 10 Ohms, can be a problem even with six foot earthing rods.

A lot depends on your van. According to UK wiring regs the 'frame' of a caravan (which includes motorcaravan) has to be tied to earth but this rule is often ignored and like some continental vans is treated as a double insulated system.

The difference between this unearthed supply and a generator is that the supply isn't floating, it will be referenced to earth at the generating end this means if there is a short to your metal work that the metal work will rise to 230V. This is why PME (TN-C-S) type earthing systems are not allowed in UK camp sites. See here >Electrician's guide<

I wouldn't use the negative of your battery I would take any earth lead to the consumer unit earth.

The requirements of a caravan are shown >HERE<


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

The Czech Republic I can understand but to see a site in Belgium with no earth would worry me, ( one to avoid ). If they can't get that right one wonders what else they have got wrong. Most electrical stuff does not require an earth unless it has a metal case. The iron is one that does, as well as some heaters.


----------



## 112673 (May 26, 2008)

hi.

the earth cable from the spike should be connected to the earth terminal in your 240v consumer unit (fuse box/main switch) after verifying that ....well to put it simply....the earth spike actually is in contact with the earth enough to earth you.

the quality of the earth will vary as it depends on ground conditions, there is a meter to test it but they're not cheap

EARTH /GROUND TESTER - E1610 - £350.00 
+
EARTH KITS
ER2KIT - £129.00 
& ER4KIT - £189.00

http://www.martindale-electric.co.uk/spec metrohm.htm

i'm sure you could find them cheaper :wink:


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I would also add that If I had to use an EHU on such I site I would not connect a toaster, oil filled radiator, iron or any other item with a metal case  as stated by another poster above.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Just as an aside, my UK market Hymer VAN 522 does not have an RCD but I have noticed that just about every bit of metalwork of the entire vehicle is strapped to the "earth" conection of the EHU.


----------



## LPDrifter (Aug 17, 2005)

It has only happened to me once. In Loire Valley. Will try and remember 
campsite later.

I ended up hardly using it as I am uneasy about using unearthed appliances.

Every connection we used this year on our trip so far - three months - has been earthed.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I'm keeping quiet. I understand physics, including electrical theory and have taught electronics. I'm also radio ham. However earthing is too difficult to get my head around. It is a subject where it is far easier to ask simple questions than derive consistently correct answers to them, in the context of motorhoming practice.

A man's gotta know his limitations.

Dave


----------



## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Many thanks all for your input.
The year before last we went up to Nth Cape and half the Scandinavian sites we went on as listed in ACSI had no earth some even had voltages over 240V at first I thought I had a electrical problem as the auto switching on my van wouldn't allow connection, the voltage was confirmed using a AVO mk8.


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

This is interesting. I have come across sites in France and Spain with the spring loaded earth pin, with reversed polarity, so if you put your 2 pin europlug in upside down you lose earth contact. I will now keep a look out for 3 pin systems with no earth, though I have yet to come across one after 5 years of touring Europe. Never been to Scandinavia, and now probably never will.


----------



## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi apxc15
Don't let that put you off, you wont have to pay the extra for power if you don't use it. The scenery and wild life up there is so fantastic it makes up for every thing else.
I see from your location your over in Germany now. Take a trip up to Sasnitz and the ferry over to Trelbourg you wont regret it.
Kind regards


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

Have to admit that I'm a bit of a sun follower, though I have seen little of it since leaving Marbella, in early April. Northern Spain, Southern France, Switzerland and here in Southern Germany, mostly rain, and very little sunshine. Scandinavia is maybe a little too far North for me, but you never know. As weather patterns change, be that due to global warming or not, the north seems to be getting the best of the weather at the moment.


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Down to earth*

Hello,

I have been on many European sites and had no earth, last week in France, no earth, same in Belgium and even the Bobil center in Bergen.

My understanding is that Electricity in the UK as many European countries is earth seeking as only the positive is carried by power lines?

Where electricity is generated elsewhere, say for example a generator, is the earth by way of spike any use?

How do you get an earth when using an Inverter run off batteries?, you are insulated from the ground by the tyres!

Questions eh!

Trev.


----------



## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi apxc1Last on Monday last wewere quite close to you at Pfinztal just below Karlshrue. Nice part of the world petty about the rain though.
Kind regards


----------



## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

Was it raining in Karlsruhe on Monday, 'cos it's "stair rodding" here now.


----------

