# Fiat Problems & Swift



## Biglol

I would like to know what Swift think of the present Fiat problems. I can see the gearbox problem hanging around for quite some time and this should affect the sales of motorhomes that are built on the Fiat chassis.
Do they have any plans to use an alternative manufacturer, as I would take notice if the word "Mercedes" was used.

Biglol

I woke up this morning and it looked nice out, so i left it out


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## richardjames

That goes for me too - my current base vehicle is a Merc and that was chosen because it is rear wheel drive. I am currently looking at the Ford rear wheel drive
regards
Richard


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## SwiftGroup

*Base Vehicle*

Swift have no intention of changing our base vehicle from Fiat. We have previously looked at other manufacturers base vehicle and nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion.

Regards
Kath


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## Superk

*Re: Base Vehicle*



SwiftGroup said:


> Swift have no intention of changing our base vehicle from Fiat. We have previously looked at other manufacturers base vehicle and nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion.
> 
> Regards
> Kath


An interesting statement since it covers many things - it could be the price, supply, existing agreements or mechanical aspects - so could you expand it to say why you prefer the Fiat over say a Mercedes or Transit?

 
Keith


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## 112744

*Good straight answer Kath *:lol:


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## cabby

Thanks for that answer Kath, but is it possible to have a rundown on the companies or your own opinion on suitability of other vehicles and how they compare to Fiat. It may help us decide on our next purchase.such as suitability for a alko chassis.

cabby


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## GerryD

I fail to see why Swift should explain their business decisions to members on this forum. Swift are a very successful company and their recent reputation for quality is constantly receiving accolades onthis forum.
They are only answerable to their Board and shareholders. If they are satisfied that they can maintain the quality of their product using the Fiat chassis then that should be good enough for the growing number of satisfied owners.
Gerry


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## richardjames

For the large part there is no problem with swift motorhomes - every brand has its problems. The real problem lies with the base vehicle. I have said this before if Swift produced a rear wheel version whether it be Merc or Ford they would certainly be on my shopping list!
No offence intended or implied - just my opinion
regards
Richard


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## lifestyle

gerry,

Relax a little bit,everyone has their opinions
perhaps you are a major share holder
why else would you get upset

Gerry , personally i am happy with my lifestyle 590rl

Les


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## Biglol

The reason I ask this question is quite simple, I have no motorhome at present, and never had one. My wife and I like the look of the E530, it ticks nearly all our boxes, but the recent problems with the Fiat base vehicle is giving me second thoughts  I'm not going to spend my cash on a motorhome that can't reverse properly, new or secondhand.

Anyone on here who wants to change their motorhome are going to test there new one by shoving it in reverse before they buy it

This problem must affect the sale of all Fiat base motorhomes, Swift are one of many manufacturers who use them.

If all the manufacturers stopped ordering from Fiat, they would soon sort the problems wouldn't they.  


Biglol


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## Biglol

*Re: Base Vehicle*



SwiftGroup said:


> Swift have no intention of changing our base vehicle from Fiat. We have previously looked at other manufacturers base vehicle and nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion.
> 
> Regards
> Kath


"Motorhome conversion" fine, but can it be driven backwards ?
Don't get me wrong, I like your "conversions" and I was thinking of buying one, but Fiat will have to sort out this problem before I do. ( I would like them to)

Biglol


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## carol

Biglol

We have the automatic - it doesn't have the judder - so if you like the Swift - order it on the automatic 

We have a Rapido and love it 

carol


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

carol said:


> Biglol
> 
> We have the automatic - it doesn't have the judder - so if you like the Swift - order it on the automatic
> carol


Autos rarer than hens teeth at the moment!!

Peter


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## geraldandannie

I think what tends to be forgotten in the well-publicised 'issues', is the other side of the coin. We're preparing to go on holiday with our motorhome, and are looking forward to it with excitement. Yes, we've got the scuttle issue; yes, we've got the reversing issue; but they won't impact much on our enjoyment over around 2,000 km from here to there and back again.

Gerald


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## Biglol

Cheers Carol

I think you would get on well with my wife, she likes diamonds, the bigger the better   


Biglol

p.s. what mpg do you get on the auto ?


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

geraldandannie said:


> I think what tends to be forgotten in the well-publicised 'issues', is the other side of the coin. We're preparing to go on holiday with our motorhome, and are looking forward to it with excitement. Yes, we've got the scuttle issue; yes, we've got the reversing issue; but they won't impact much on our enjoyment over around 2,000 km from here to there and back again.
> 
> Gerald


Well said Gerald, hope you have a whale of a time.

Regards

Peter


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## Superk

GerryD said:


> I fail to see why Swift should explain their business decisions to members on this forum. Swift are a very successful company and their recent reputation for quality is constantly receiving accolades onthis forum.
> They are only answerable to their Board and shareholders. If they are satisfied that they can maintain the quality of their product using the Fiat chassis then that should be good enough for the growing number of satisfied owners.
> Gerry


Fair enough and whilst I might accept the statement if she had simply said it was for business reasons and left it at that but what she actually said was "nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion. "

A strong statement that aroused my interest as to it's basis since some other MH manufacturers clearly have a different view and judging by the many threads on here some Fiat owners haven't been pleased with their purchase and ensuing service.

 
Keith


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## geraldandannie

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Well said Gerald, hope you have a whale of a time.


Thanks, Peter. I'm sure we will.

Non motorhomers ask why we changed from our 2000 Autosleepers Pollensa (a lovely motorhome) to our 2007 Chausson. Apart from the layout, which suits us better now we know a bit about motorhoming, and what we really want, there is a huge difference in the chassis.

Our old van drove and felt like a 'white van' with a big white box stuck on the back. It was slow, it handled badly, and the steering wheel was offset from the seat - a case of "it's only a van, this is where the wheel ends up, live with it".

Our new motorhome feels much more integrated. It's smooth, quiet, powerful, very easy to drive, has a lot of nice and useful mod cons, and handles well (slight reservation about the wider track at the back, which doubles your chances of finding lorry tyre ruts to follow). I don't know about other makes (I have driven a Merc Sprinter a lot in the past, and didn't enjoy the experience as much), but I wouldn't be put off buying a Fiat Ducato again.

Gerald


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## johnc

*Re: Base Vehicle*



SwiftGroup said:


> Swift have no intention of changing our base vehicle from Fiat. We have previously looked at other manufacturers base vehicle and nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion.
> 
> Regards
> Kath


Whilst it may not be my place to say this, I will say it anyway. Swift should consider changing to Peugeot base units as

(a) Peugeot give a full 3 year warranty, many Fiat owners have only been given two years.

(b) Peugeot have been more sensitive to customer complaints and have gone out of their way to fix the water ingress issue on my van and are now going to fix the judder issue by changing the gear ratio.

(c) Peugeot engines are I believe more economical than Fiat (I get 35MPG just tootling about)

(d) Peugeot base units share the same chassis as Fiat

I am absolutely horrified by the way in which my fellow Motorhome Owners have been treated by Fiat and their so called Customer Care and associated dealers.

Regards

John C


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## 96299

*Re: Base Vehicle*



johnc said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> Swift have no intention of changing our base vehicle from Fiat. We have previously looked at other manufacturers base vehicle and nothing else compares with the Fiat X250 in respect of its suitability for motorhome conversion.
> 
> Regards
> Kath
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst it may not be my place to say this, I will say it anyway. Swift should consider changing to amateur base units as
> 
> (a) Peugeot give a full 3 year warranty, many Fiat owners have only been given two years.
> 
> (b) Peugeot have been more sensitive to customer complaints and have gone out of their way to fix the water ingress issue on my van and are now going to fix the judder issue by changing the gear ratio.
> 
> (c) Peugeot engines are I believe more economical than Fiat (I get 35MPG just tootling about)
> 
> (d) Peugeot base units share the same chassis as Fiat
> 
> I am absolutely horrified by the way in which my fellow Motorhome Owners have been treated by Fiat and their so called Customer Care and associated dealers.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John C
Click to expand...

John C.... I have got to make you absolutely right about FiART and their shoddiness and lack of customer care.very amateur company who couldn`t give a toss IMO. :evil:

steve


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## Zebedee

*Re: Base Vehicle*



johnc said:


> (c) Peugeot engines are I believe more economical than Fiat (I get 35MPG just tootling about)
> John C


I can certainly agree with this point John, as I get the same.  

As I posted some time ago, while on holiday in Ireland I got chatting to an English motorhomer with a Fiat, and we thought our engines were the same.

He could hardly believe the mpg I was getting, and we lifted bonnets during the chat (as you do! :roll: )- only to find completely different engine blocks inside. His a 2.3 and mine a 2.2, but he was getting only about 24mpg as I recall, and in his words, "_while wearing glass slippers_".

The vans were about the same size too.

Cheers


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## some-where-in-oxford

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> carol said:
> 
> 
> 
> Biglol
> 
> We have the automatic - it doesn't have the judder - so if you like the Swift - order it on the automatic
> carol
> 
> 
> 
> Autos rarer than hens teeth at the moment!!
> 
> Peter
Click to expand...

With an increase in retail price of 9% as well coming soon, perhaps the autos will hold their value better than the manuals?


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## richardjames

I saw at the Motorhome show the mercedes were offering an optional Alko chassis
Richard


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## 108370

richardjames said:


> For the large part there is no problem with swift motorhomes - every brand has its problems. The real problem lies with the base vehicle. I have said this before if Swift produced a rear wheel version whether it be Merc or Ford they would certainly be on my shopping list!
> No offence intended or implied - just my opinion
> regards
> Richard


What is this obsession regarding RWD that comes up frequently on this site?

FWD is totally suitable for this application and is no better or worse than RWD IMO.

On the 6th July I parked at Shelsley Walsh hillclimb on very wet grass with a tsiler. It P****d down all night and rained during the following day.

I had my race car on the trailer and left the field on Sunday , without any trouble at all , despite the field being churned up by cars parking/leaving throuout the day.

It is the ability to get off wet grass that always comes up as this issue , but I really fsil to see a problem,


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## roclaire

*juddergate .*

gerald ,we set of on holiday to spain .not worrying about our judder ,but 60 miles down the motorway our gearbox disintergrated ..that was at 4,30 in afternoon...by time we got recoverd home it was 11.30 at night ...
yes if we allworried about the judder ,we would not dare use our vans ,
but beleive,if and when you have the same expereince ,and i hope you dont ,please let us know your thoughts ...
a very frightning expereince ....swift have a lot of clout ,one way or another ,and for kath ,to say there is no better van for conversion.....i think when she comes of holiday on 18 th ,she could explain why they swift beleive that its such a good base vehcle ,..
they are aware of juddergate ,and have been onto fiat ..,.
ithink last update was were waiting for an answer from swift about the problem..how long are swift willing to wait for this answer as there credibility is going down the pan...they dont really seem to be looking after there customers ......so peter and cath ,should come clean and let us know where they stand on this issue ..


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## Rapide561

*MultiJet*

Hello

As many of you will know, I recently sold my Kontiki, which sat nicely on a 3.0 MultiJet. By the time I had done, I had 11,000 or so miles on the clock and we never missed a beat together. Well, there was the loss of power for a few seconds en route to Italy in March, but checks revealed no fault found, so presumably that was a "flook".

My pals are in Europe with their Kontiki - again on the 3.0 Fiat and I am guesing their mileage to be about 15,000 now in a van just a smidge over one year old. Again, they march on like troopers.

A friend has very kindly been lent me a Burstner on a 2.8 Fiat. I used to own one of these engines and thought it was FAB, but after diving the MultiJet.......I can only say my next van will be on the 3.0 MultiJet. I have also had a drive of a van with a 2.5 Renault but I simply did not like the feel of the power unit.

R


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## Mike48

If people keep on buying Fiat's then there is no incentive for the manufacturer or converter to resolve the problems. 

With very many threads on various websites about the "new" Fiat it is beyond my comprehension that people are prepared to spend so much money on them until at least a remedy is found. The fact that the vehicle converts well, looks fantastic and drives superbly is little compensation for unreliability and a lack of peace of mind. 

Surely it is better to buy a Ford or Mercedes and go on your foreign holiday in the knowledge that your gearbox is unlikely to fail. And we all know what will happen when the warranty expires! 

But it takes all sorts I suppose but personally I would'nt buy one because I would always be concerned that the gearbox would pack up.


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## fransgrandad

*Swift Motorhomes -> Fiat Problems & Swift*

Hello Again,

Last night I was reading the postings re Ford Transit base vehicles, it seems Ford have more problems than Fiat and are not keen to assist when things go wrong.

There was also the comment that the ford engine was a reworked Peugot 
with a Ford head. I have the 2.2 100 engine 8,000 miles to date (fingers crossed) no problems, I guess it's a post code lottery re dealers my local firm are great (I have a Fiat car).

I wonder what is the truth re. the engines, mine say's ford on the oil filter housing, I did read some where that Peugot also had the juddering clutch problem, different engine same problem? Again I am open to correction these vehicles are built in the same factory as Iveco, Iveco is also tied to Ford. I am confused, but .com can not help.

Les.
Les.


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## Mike48

Fransgrandad wrote:

_"Last night I was reading the postings re Ford Transit base vehicles, it seems Ford have more problems than Fiat and are not keen to assist when things go wrong". _

This is rather a misrepresentation.

These are the reported faults with a Transit:

*Front strut recall *which was fixed by Ford.

*Stalling.* A problem due to driver technique. Users report the need to rev highly when starting off.

*Clutch Smell* Apparently the clutch has bedded down after use. And there have been 2 ECU upgrades to deal with the problem.

*Spongy brakes* This is said to be a characteristic due to front and rear discs but it is unclear whether this is a genuine problem or not.

The only unresolved problem seems to be a flickering light on the dashboard which comes on with excessive heater use.

Now it is clear these problems should not have occurred but I hardly think it warrants the comment that Ford's have more problems than Fiat's and the dealers are not keen to assist when things go wrong.


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## fransgrandad

Oh dear,

Sorry to have upset you! but no brake problems and Fiat have discs all round, my Fiat requires no special driving technique to prevent stalling in fact it will pull away on a level road at tick over. 

I just felt Fiat were being given an unfair tanning, and wanted to point out others were not with out fault, my other point was Ford,Peugot,Fiat,Iveco,
who makes what and what other than the obvious are the differences, I repeat my Fiat engine has Ford cast in to the oil filter housing.

no intention to offend.

Les.


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## Mike48

You haven't offended me in the slightest. Sorry if I gave that impression. 

I understand from another thread started by Andy Stothert the MMM journalist that the main engine block is shared with Ford but the cylinder head and transmission arrangements are completely different.

I think the main objectives of the previously mentioned thread are to ensure that Fiat live up to their responsibilities and to ensure that owners of their vehicles are adequately protected against transmission faults either during or after the warranty expires.


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## fransgrandad

That's okay then, 

We have a common cause best not to fall out.

Les.


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## Penquin

I have to say on reading through the various threads that I am very pleased our vehicle is an '03 reg Kontiki 615, it drives beautifully, stops superbly, corners like a dream and goes backwards without any complaints (except from my warning system if it's raining and she's getting wet!)

Having watched programmes like "Watchdog" I am well aware of the difficulties in persuading vehicle manufacturers to admit there is a fault - they seem excellent at camouflage and evasion of all criticism. Swift do NOT make the base vehicle, they "merely" convert it (and I could not do that!) they have said they are in discussion with Fiat, but I suspect even with their clout it will be like beating your head against a brick wall to get Fiat to admit there may be a problem with SOME of their vehicles.

As an outsider to this problem I wonder whether there are any similairities that could enable a group of vehicles to be identified as being at greater risk, eg when were they made by Fiat, how does the loading compare, is it the same engine/ clutch / gearbox ?

I have read from various threads that identifying what components you have under the bonnet is not an exact science even if you look. Has anyone tried to collect and collate all of the information? That is when contacting a programme such as Watchdog may be helpful but for them it's a specialist market and not a very large one or one with instant safety concerns (OK I accept that havng your gearbox disintegrate is a safety concern if you are doing 50+ mph, but if it's on reverse at less than 10mph is it the same concern for safety?) they will not be able to attract "instant" public condemnation and concerns. Which is probably just as well for companies such as Swift trying to produce an excellent product and support their customers.

Yes the cost of the vehicles is a massive amount of money but the number that have failed is not going to grab people's attention. Remember the failing bonnet locks highlighted last year and the year before - how long did that take to solve? Even then the company (was it Renault?) produced a conversion kit, they did not recall all the vehicles.

It will take a long time to solve, even longer to get Fiat to admit it's their fault; they only make the base vehicles and are not responsible for what happens to them after the have left their care! Do ordinary "white vans" based on the same chassis / engine / gearbox fail? I don't know!

A long submission, but I strongly believe someone needs to collect the information about failures so that they have the strength of detailed numbers and information to present to Fiat. One or two vehicles they can shrug shoulders and say it's a one off, 100 or 200 much harder to do the same, 1000 - 2000 very difficult to deny.


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## fransgrandad

*Fiat Problems*

Hi, Penguin,

Great post, totally agree, we have the same thoughts, the bulk of these vehicles will have been sold to the commercial markets throughout the world.

It would be interesting to hear the views of a uk transport manager, his drivers will only have one goal, get out and back as soon as possible foot to the floor all day.

What I do not understand is after all the years of vehicle building how do they get it so wrong. Ford spongy brakes are due to having discs on all four wheels how many Ford cars have four wheel disc brakes? How many clutches and fly wheels have fiat made?

Les.


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## SwiftGroup

Penquin said:


> I have to say on reading through the various threads that I am very pleased our vehicle is an '03 reg Kontiki 615, it drives beautifully, stops superbly, corners like a dream and goes backwards without any complaints (except from my warning system if it's raining and she's getting wet!)
> 
> Having watched programmes like "Watchdog" I am well aware of the difficulties in persuading vehicle manufacturers to admit there is a fault - they seem excellent at camouflage and evasion of all criticism. Swift do NOT make the base vehicle, they "merely" convert it (and I could not do that!) they have said they are in discussion with Fiat, but I suspect even with their clout it will be like beating your head against a brick wall to get Fiat to admit there may be a problem with SOME of their vehicles.
> 
> As an outsider to this problem I wonder whether there are any similairities that could enable a group of vehicles to be identified as being at greater risk, eg when were they made by Fiat, how does the loading compare, is it the same engine/ clutch / gearbox ?
> 
> I have read from various threads that identifying what components you have under the bonnet is not an exact science even if you look. Has anyone tried to collect and collate all of the information? That is when contacting a programme such as Watchdog may be helpful but for them it's a specialist market and not a very large one or one with instant safety concerns (OK I accept that havng your gearbox disintegrate is a safety concern if you are doing 50+ mph, but if it's on reverse at less than 10mph is it the same concern for safety?) they will not be able to attract "instant" public condemnation and concerns. Which is probably just as well for companies such as Swift trying to produce an excellent product and support their customers.
> 
> Yes the cost of the vehicles is a massive amount of money but the number that have failed is not going to grab people's attention. Remember the failing bonnet locks highlighted last year and the year before - how long did that take to solve? Even then the company (was it Renault?) produced a conversion kit, they did not recall all the vehicles.
> 
> It will take a long time to solve, even longer to get Fiat to admit it's their fault; they only make the base vehicles and are not responsible for what happens to them after the have left their care! Do ordinary "white vans" based on the same chassis / engine / gearbox fail? I don't know!
> 
> A long submission, but I strongly believe someone needs to collect the information about failures so that they have the strength of detailed numbers and information to present to Fiat. One or two vehicles they can shrug shoulders and say it's a one off, 100 or 200 much harder to do the same, 1000 - 2000 very difficult to deny.


We do feed back to Fiat all your concerns but as you say we area very small cog in the Fiat customer wheel! Peter.


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## hilldweller

SwiftGroup said:


> We do feed back to Fiat all your concerns but as you say we area very small cog in the Fiat customer wheel! Peter.


Come on, they're only Italians, put your best suit on, gesticulate a lot and tell them are becoming a laughing stock. Tell them the Germans say gearboxes made by real men don't break. Tell them the French say they are such poor lovers they are only fit for making vibrators.

Remind them how we cured a nasty infestation for them on Monte Casino.


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## averhamdave

I would be interested to hear Swifts opinions on the points made concerning the view that the Peugeot base is better than the Fiat one.

I have been a long time Swift critic but they are winning me round. I have recently looked at the Autocruise range and particular the Augusta which uses the 3.0Hdi Peugeot.

I suspect the 3.0 is in fact a fiat engine but other aspects of the base veicle have been suggested to be better.

Anyway Swift - you use Fiat for one brand and Peugeot for the other how do they compare in your opinion.

By the way I love my Fiat 2.3, chipped to 155hp. I'd pack up before I bought a Tranny!


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## johna

*Transit spongy brakes*

Ford's line on this, is that they are a chararistic of the vehicle, and it is not a fault, I will not be buying another Transit. I have been driving for 40yrs, have driven every thing from mopeds to Artics and 25ton cranes, all over the world and never had brakes as bad as these on my current 07 Transit. Steve


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## johnc

*Re: Transit spongy brakes*



johna said:


> Ford's line on this, is that they are a chararistic of the vehicle, and it is not a fault, I will not be buying another Transit. I have been driving for 40yrs, have driven every thing from mopeds to Artics and 25ton cranes, all over the world and never had brakes as bad as these on my current 07 Transit. Steve


Steve, if the brakes are that bad then you should be sending a report to VOSA. They did act on the Fiat Peugeot water ingress problem. If the brakes are bad then it must be a safety issue especially on a motorhome.

Regards

John C


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## johna

*Re: Transit spongy brakes*

Hi John, I could not agree with you more, VOSA is my next step, I will get it sorted, other wise, I love my Transit, Engine, Gearbox, Clutch etc are all excellent, just very unhappy with the brakes, which is bad enough in it's self I must agree. They are ok when you know you are going to stop and pump the pedal once, then they are great, but you don't always know this. Thanks Steve. w


johnc said:


> johna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ford's line on this, is that they are a chararistic of the vehicle, and it is not a fault, I will not be buying another Transit. I have been driving for 40yrs, have driven every thing from mopeds to Artics and 25ton cranes, all over the world and never had brakes as bad as these on my current 07 Transit. Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, if the brakes are that bad then you should be sending a report to VOSA. They did act on the Fiat Peugeot water ingress problem. If the brakes are bad then it must be a safety issue especially on a motorhome.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John C
Click to expand...


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## 94055

Hi,

Could I please ask a simple question without getting shot down by the anti Swift brigade.

On this website we have a base vehicle forum

>>Here<<

1. Could Nuke please put in Sub Forums so each base vehicle has it's own folder. Fiat, Ford...etc.

2. Could everyone that has something to say about a base vehicle post in the relevant folder.

3. Could we comment in the Swift forum points related to Swift. Other convertors have exclusive folders. So please use them.

4. Could the anti Swift brigade post actual fact so that the Swift team are able to comment. (Have you not noticed, they do not comment if they have nothing to say)

5. We part exchanged our HYMER B544L for my Swift Bolero and we are glad we did. It is a quality van at 2/3rds of the price. But not 2/3rds of the quality. £60,000 as opposed to £40,000 is a no brainer for us.

6. We have a conversion warranty that is equal to, or better than the others, unless you can prove me wrong.

7. We have got a 3yr warranty on the Fiat and it covers the gearbox. How many yrs is a Merc, Ford...etc?

What I am trying to say is:

8. Could you please stop trying to spoil what Swift are trying to achieve?

Let them try to give an excellent service (I and many are feeling the benefit of it)

If you feel I am giving a false representation on the service we as Swift customers are receiving then.

Contact the majority of customers that are happy with Swift. Not the few who for whatever reason feel they are getting a crap service. (Please ask them why)

Enough said,

The main points are

Put your postings in the correct folder

Steve


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## johnc

*Incestuous Base vehicles*



SandJ said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could I please ask a simple question without getting shot down by the anti Swift brigade.
> 
> On this website we have a base vehicle forum
> 
> >>Here<<
> 
> 1. Could Nuke please put in Sub Forums so each base vehicle has it's own folder. Fiat, Ford...etc.
> 
> 2. Could everyone that has something to say about a base vehicle post in the relevant folder.
> 
> 3. Could we comment in the Swift forum points related to Swift. Other convertors have exclusive folders. So please use them.
> 
> 4. Could the anti Swift brigade post actual fact so that the Swift team are able to comment. (Have you not noticed, they do not comment if they have nothing to say)
> 
> 5. We part exchanged our HYMER B544L for my Swift Bolero and we are glad we did. It is a quality van at 2/3rds of the price. But not 2/3rds of the quality. £60,000 as opposed to £40,000 is a no brainer for us.
> 
> 6. We have a conversion warranty that is equal to, or better than the others, unless you can prove me wrong.
> 
> 7. We have got a 3yr warranty on the Fiat and it covers the gearbox. How many yrs is a Merc, Ford...etc?
> 
> What I am trying to say is:
> 
> 8. Could you please stop trying to spoil what Swift are trying to achieve?
> 
> Let them try to give an excellent service (I and many are feeling the benefit of it)
> 
> If you feel I am giving a false representation on the service we as Swift customers are receiving then.
> 
> Contact the majority of customers that are happy with Swift. Not the few who for whatever reason feel they are getting a crap service. (Please ask them why)
> 
> Enough said,
> 
> The main points are
> 
> Put your postings in the correct folder
> 
> Steve


Steve, with respect, the problem is that so many of the vehicles are related and share common components.

(1) Fiat, Peugeot Renault and Citroen are all made in the same factory and share the same basic chassis with common gearboxes (I think)

(2) Ford and Peugeot have a common engine.

(3) Ford and Iveco share common engines.

(4) The new VW van looks very much like the new Transit

My spin on the base units is that I would prefer to see all the information on the base units on the same group as there are lessons to be learned.

I have a Peugeot so why should |I look on a Ford thread yet I have been seriously thinking that my next van should be a Transit based base unit but here we have words of warning from Johna.

And I don't approve of bashing Swift but they should use Peugeot as we Peugeot customers have much better service that FIART customers. howver to Swift's credit they do make some effort unlike the Explorer Group who are dead from the scrotum up (woops sorry)


----------



## 94055

*Re: Incestuous Base vehicles*



johnc said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Could I please ask a simple question without getting shot down by the anti Swift brigade.
> 
> On this website we have a base vehicle forum
> 
> >>Here<<
> 
> 1. Could Nuke please put in Sub Forums so each base vehicle has it's own folder. Fiat, Ford...etc.
> 
> 2. Could everyone that has something to say about a base vehicle post in the relevant folder.
> 
> 3. Could we comment in the Swift forum points related to Swift. Other convertors have exclusive folders. So please use them.
> 
> 4. Could the anti Swift brigade post actual fact so that the Swift team are able to comment. (Have you not noticed, they do not comment if they have nothing to say)
> 
> 5. We part exchanged our HYMER B544L for my Swift Bolero and we are glad we did. It is a quality van at 2/3rds of the price. But not 2/3rds of the quality. £60,000 as opposed to £40,000 is a no brainer for us.
> 
> 6. We have a conversion warranty that is equal to, or better than the others, unless you can prove me wrong.
> 
> 7. We have got a 3yr warranty on the Fiat and it covers the gearbox. How many yrs is a Merc, Ford...etc?
> 
> What I am trying to say is:
> 
> 8. Could you please stop trying to spoil what Swift are trying to achieve?
> 
> Let them try to give an excellent service (I and many are feeling the benefit of it)
> 
> If you feel I am giving a false representation on the service we as Swift customers are receiving then.
> 
> Contact the majority of customers that are happy with Swift. Not the few who for whatever reason feel they are getting a crap service. (Please ask them why)
> 
> Enough said,
> 
> The main points are
> 
> Put your postings in the correct folder
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, with respect, the problem is that so many of the vehicles are related and share common components.
> 
> (1) Fiat, Peugeot Renault and Citroen are all made in the same factory and share the same basic chassis with common gearboxes (I think)
> 
> (2) Ford and Peugeot have a common engine.
> 
> (3) Ford and Iveco share common engines.
> 
> (4) The new VW van looks very much like the new Transit
> 
> My spin on the base units is that I would prefer to see all the information on the base units on the same group as there are lessons to be learned.
> 
> I have a Peugeot so why should |I look on a Ford thread yet I have been seriously thinking that my next van should be a Transit based base unit but here we have words of warning from Johna.
> 
> And I don't approve of bashing Swift but they should use Peugeot as we Peugeot customers have much better service that FIART customers. howver to Swift's credit they do make some effort unlike the Explorer Group who are dead from the scrotum up (woops sorry)
Click to expand...

John,

1 Answer until the morning at least.



> (1) Fiat, Peugeot Renault and Citroen are all made in the same factory and share the same basic chassis with common gearboxes (I think)


Post them in that folder and not Swift :wink: :wink: :wink:

So

>HERE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

:wink:

SEE what I mean?

Steve

:wink: :wink: :wink:


----------



## Rapide561

*Swift/Fiat*

Hello

I have this week ordered a Swift motorhome sitting nicely on a 3.0 Fiat. I have absolutely no worries in respect of either.

Russell


----------



## sallytrafic

So Fiat have produced a chassis that is better than all the fiat chassis that went before that doesn't mean that Swift should use them. I am willing to bet the real reason is the heavily discounted cost to Swift of any Fiat chassis bought in sufficient numbers - I could get a discount for just buying one!!


----------



## Steamdrivenandy

*Re: Incestuous Base vehicles*



johnc said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Could I please ask a simple question without getting shot down by the anti Swift brigade.
> 
> On this website we have a base vehicle forum
> 
> >>Here<<
> 
> 1. Could Nuke please put in Sub Forums so each base vehicle has it's own folder. Fiat, Ford...etc.
> 
> 2. Could everyone that has something to say about a base vehicle post in the relevant folder.
> 
> 3. Could we comment in the Swift forum points related to Swift. Other convertors have exclusive folders. So please use them.
> 
> 4. Could the anti Swift brigade post actual fact so that the Swift team are able to comment. (Have you not noticed, they do not comment if they have nothing to say)
> 
> 5. We part exchanged our HYMER B544L for my Swift Bolero and we are glad we did. It is a quality van at 2/3rds of the price. But not 2/3rds of the quality. £60,000 as opposed to £40,000 is a no brainer for us.
> 
> 6. We have a conversion warranty that is equal to, or better than the others, unless you can prove me wrong.
> 
> 7. We have got a 3yr warranty on the Fiat and it covers the gearbox. How many yrs is a Merc, Ford...etc?
> 
> What I am trying to say is:
> 
> 8. Could you please stop trying to spoil what Swift are trying to achieve?
> 
> Let them try to give an excellent service (I and many are feeling the benefit of it)
> 
> If you feel I am giving a false representation on the service we as Swift customers are receiving then.
> 
> Contact the majority of customers that are happy with Swift. Not the few who for whatever reason feel they are getting a crap service. (Please ask them why)
> 
> Enough said,
> 
> The main points are
> 
> Put your postings in the correct folder
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, with respect, the problem is that so many of the vehicles are related and share common components.
> 
> (1) Fiat, Peugeot Renault and Citroen are all made in the same factory and share the same basic chassis with common gearboxes (I think)
> 
> (2) Ford and Peugeot have a common engine.
> 
> (3) Ford and Iveco share common engines.
> 
> (4) The new VW van looks very much like the new Transit
> 
> My spin on the base units is that I would prefer to see all the information on the base units on the same group as there are lessons to be learned.
> 
> I have a Peugeot so why should |I look on a Ford thread yet I have been seriously thinking that my next van should be a Transit based base unit but here we have words of warning from Johna.
> 
> And I don't approve of bashing Swift but they should use Peugeot as we Peugeot customers have much better service that FIART customers. howver to Swift's credit they do make some effort unlike the Explorer Group who are dead from the scrotum up (woops sorry)
Click to expand...

I think you're on slightly the wrong track as far as the VW Crafter and the Transit are concerned, although I agree there are styling similarities.

In fact the VW relationship is actually with Mercedes for these vans and they're a rebadged Mercedes Sprinter. Both are built in the same factory.

I really can't get my head round these 'plant sharing' deals that have spread through the motor industry. With EU regulations being very tight about monopolistic, anti competitive practices by business, how do they get away with it?

SDA


----------



## rowley

John wrote--And I don’t approve of bashing Swift but they should use Peugeot as we Peugeot customers have much better service that FIART customers.

Maybe, but Fiat were more pro-active than Peugeot at the start of the scuttlegate scenario. And I think some of that was due to Peter (Swift) approaching Fiat.


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## Rapide561

*Fiat and Peugeot*

Hi

In respect of Fiat and Peugeot - and I do not know the answer to this, so am posing it as a question of sorts.

1) Peugeot TAG axle - anyone seen one?

2) Fiat - the rear wheels are further apart than the Peugeot - is that correct?

Russell


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## frenchfancy

We have a Sundance, bought 2nd hand, and have had no problems with judder, or anything else, perhaps this model not affected. I have nothing but praise for Swift, they helped me out within a few days with a minor paperwork problem recently. But each to their own opinion. I can understand if you have a serious issue, after all we are not talking peanuts for these M/H's are we, and some can only afford to buy one, and it needs to be spot on.


----------



## hilldweller

*Re: Incestuous Base vehicles*



Steamdrivenandy said:


> I really can't get my head round these 'plant sharing' deals that have spread through the motor industry.SDA


Choose 1. Share 2. Die. I would guess.

There is overproduction, huge development costs, huge manufacturing costs and huge similarity of product.

For a change it's a sensible way of putting off Armageddon. They might make a profit, we get what we want at a slightly better price and who really cares about the badge.

We are back to the 1900s, engine makers, chassis makers. Why one earth should there not be one communal engine/drivetrain maker making them at lowest possible cost due to maximum production. Well, we are just seeing the reason why with the Fiat cockup but I think it's the only way for the future, that or hand a million more jobs to China.


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## frenchfancy

I just female, no engineering knowledge at all, turn the key and it goes is my limit.Little too complicated for me, but i would buy another Swift given the finances allow. We had an Abbey caravan for a short while (yes very short but therein lies a tale). I think they offer value for money over the range. I t nearly always is the case of a little bit of luck, although i know it should not be.


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## GerryD

Just got back from France this afternoon with our Fiat based motorhome on the X250 2.3 Multijet. Loaded to the gunwals and had no problems at all.
Couldn't think of a better vehicle to enjoy driving. Even forced into a reversing test that would have done Andt Stothert proud and in torrential rain. No judder whatsoever other than the one that you would expect from a larger 4 cylinder diesel pulling 3500kgs backwards up a minimum 1 in 5 at idle revs.

Absolutely love the vehicle as do the majority of owners.

Gerry


----------



## Telbell

Glad it all went well Gerry-

should this be on the "Judder" thread though-rather than Fiat/Swift" :wink: - sorry, not being "pcky"-just a thought :lol:


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## Biglol

If I went and bought a new car for £40k it wouldn't have a gearbox problem built in. Likewise a £10K new car wouldn't either. In fact I must have had a dozen cars or more over the years and none of them had a gearbox problem

Do you see where I'm coming from


----------



## some-where-in-oxford

*Re: Swift/Fiat*



Rapide561 said:


> Hello
> 
> I have this week ordered a Swift motorhome sitting nicely on a 3.0 Fiat. I have absolutely no worries in respect of either.
> 
> Russell


I'm sat here in Tewkesbury Abbey in a new Swift Voyager Automatic, very well put together, drives a like a dream.

Very happy with my Swift motorhome.

My only complaint not having the time to go away again this year very often, too busy at work.


----------



## GerryD

Biglol said:


> If I went and bought a new car for £40k it wouldn't have a gearbox problem built in. Likewise a £10K new car wouldn't either. In fact I must have had a dozen cars or more over the years and none of them had a gearbox problem
> 
> Do you see where I'm coming from


This vehicle categorically does not have a gearbox problem.

There are always other variables over and above the mechanical.

Gerry


----------



## Biglol

"This vehicle categorically does not have a gearbox problem. 
There are always other variables over and above the mechanical."


Tell that to Andy Stothert at MMM who road tests motorhomes


----------



## Telbell

> This vehicle categorically does not have a gearbox problem.


Gerry-By "this vehicle" do you mean your own or the x2/50 in general?

Ifb the latter, perhaps you should update yourself on the "Judder" threads on here and O&A.

Peudeot now accept there's a fault and will be trying out a new reverse gear ratio.

Fiat (Italy) are trialling a modified gearbox on the x2/50.


----------



## Jeffus

*Reversing Judder*

Hi everyone and Andy,

Sorry I've been so long updating but I have only just managed to get a connection.

Ok so as promised . . . I have just picked up our new Bessacarr E795 with the 160 multijet engine. Arriving at Marquis August 27th for a test drive. First thing I asked was find me a hill I can reverse up. Not knowing the area (Winchester) I let the hand over guy drive. Eventually we found one that was quite and allowed me to do my test reversing. I would love to tell you that the bloney van nearly shook itself to bits . . . but it didn't in fact just the opposite. I've got to admit I found it very hard to find this judder, after a few attempts I managed something that could be felt very slightly but I would describe it as a slight tingling. Certainly not a judder, no where near and I can certainly live with it. I must also add I had to really keep the revs down to induce it. If I reversed normally I couldn't feel anything, it just reversed up the hill easily. I drove the vehicle back to Marquis (about 10 miles) and was really surprised at the ease in which it climbed hills. It has about 130 miles on the clock but pulled like a train. Gawd know what it will do when it's run in. Very impressed.

So with my mind put mildly to rest I checked round the rest of the van and looked forward to Monday 1st Sept to collect her. At this point I have to commend Marquis at Lower Upham who have been quite brilliant. Nothing was too much trouble and we were made to feel very welcome even to the point we stayed over night a couple of nights in their compound as we wanted to move all our gear from the old to the new van (which we did last Sunday/Monday). We fulltime so we have nowhere to sleep except in our 4 wheeled home. Thank you Steve Barnes (sales), Paul (Service manager) and Tony (handover).

There was a few teething problems I won't bore you with them the main being having to order a new base plate for my Caro sat dish (not in stock) so 2 to 3 weeks and has to come from Germany (didn't know Oyster was German). There was a few more niggley probs but Paul soon had them fixed. Handover went smoothly and I'm a very happy man (wife likes it too, the van that is).

One other problem and I mention it 'cause Swift were NOT at all helpful last Friday. The two running lights over the Luton won't work (still don't) and Paul was trying to get Swift to fax the wiring diagram down to him. Swift's reply "sorry mate we close midday on Fridays". So I have to make a return journey when Swift deem it OK to forward the diagram.

I have driven the new van a little over the last week and everytime I drive it I get a bit more excited with it. The clutch is so light you find yourself stalling it and the gear shift is truly like a hot knife though butter. I have deliberately reversed it when unnecessary but still I have found no real judder. I'll let you know how it goes after a few more weeks.

Re the water ingress problem. As you know over the last week it has just bucketed down and today Sat 6th it's still peeing it down as I am writing this. In between the down pours I have been out to check under the bonnet and I can report it is snuff dry under there. There's a bit of water round where the air intake is, but that's all.

All the best guys,

Jeffus.


----------



## Telbell

Pleased you were judderless Jedffus.I'm sure Andy will be interested to read this but think he's way at mo.

As a matter of interest-what revs were you at when you reversed uphill? This seems to be important from what I read.


----------



## Jeffus

Telbell said:


> Pleased you were judderless Jedffus.I'm sure Andy will be interested to read this but think he's way at mo.
> 
> As a matter of interest-what revs were you at when you reversed uphill? This seems to be important from what I read.


Hi Telbell,

Tickover on the 160 is about 700/800 rpm so I reckon about 1,000/1,100 rpm. I was looking at my reversing screen and mirrors as I was reversing so a guesstimate jobby. Certainly nothing approaching 1,500. As I said I really had to work hard to make it misbehave and even then it was so slight if it wasn't for the publicised "problem" I wouldn't have noticed there was anything amiss.

Jeffus.


----------

