# Genuine question. No controversy intended.



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I bet we get a few polarised responses though! :wink: 

Can anyone please tell me what is the attraction and advantage of a Sog?

I genuinely can't see why anyone would want one.

They can no longer be justified as environmentally friendly in any real sense. Biological washing liquid in them works perfectly well and the amount of that which goes into the drains from camping toilets is miniscule compared to washing machines in virtually every household in the land - and not only _this _land! (One has to assume it is not harmful in any way. :? )

They are no longer cheaper to run, since a filter costs at least a tenner per year if it is renewed correctly, but a 3 litre bottle of Lidl "Formil" bio liquid for less than two quid will last two or three years for most people. 

They stink when they are emptied, whereas a dose of bio liquid almost eliminates the pong. (_When parked next door, some of then stink in use when the filters have not been changed regularly! 8O :roll: ) _

The bio liquid prevents a build-up of limescale inside so they never need any more cleaning other than a quick swill with some water.

No need to be careful when putting it in as it will not stain the bowl like the blue stuff - it will clean it in fact. :wink:

I don't want to start a argument, but I just can't see the attraction, and don't find it any inconvenience at all to slosh a drop of bio liquid down the pan. :wink:

I await your thoughts with interest.

Thanks

Dave


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## mikkidee (Jun 19, 2009)

Zeb just a quick question regarding washing liquid. I tried it this weekend gone and although initially it smelt very nice it still didn't do the break down in the cassette that some people say. How much should you put in? 


Mike


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Looks like so far you successfully failed to start an argument Zeb :lol:


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I see it like this lad, ( my grandads words not mine)

Why mend something that is not broken?
Who are the Joneses anyway.

Is that ok Zeb.

ps whats a sog :lol: 

Dave p


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Mike

I don't measure it carefully, but about the same as for a load of washing. It's so cheap you can throw it around and not bother about the cost.  

I never found the "proper" stuff broke down the solids very well, whatever the claims on the bottle! :roll: 

Someone on here said bio washing liquid is chemically pretty similar to the expensive Thetford and Elsan stuff, but I don't know if that's true. Someone else will though I expect, and it would be interesting to know! :wink: 

Dave 


Edited for typo!


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## mikkidee (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Dave, well it is definitely cheaper so will carry on giving it a try. Don't fancy the sog though not unless it comes supplied with nose plugs


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## mikkidee (Jun 19, 2009)

The sog is just another gimmic to get the motorhomer to part with some hard earned!!!!!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

We find that sitting out in a group around the m/homes this weather we can tell who has a SOG because of the smell :?


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## mikkidee (Jun 19, 2009)

Well there is no hard and fast evidence that there are any benefits apart from stripping the lining from your nose when emptying


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

The Sogs biggest advantage is that it draws all the nasty niffs down from the bowl and punts them outside to whoever has parked too close to you. (if the filter needs changing)
Chemicals mean that you get an instant hit inside the van when you open the trap. ( I have looked at vans where you could smell the chemicals when you opened the door and you can smell it on peoples clothes at times).
No contest and no smell in the van even after a fierce curry or night on that stuff the English call beer. (which I must like, given how much I get through!)

There is a smell when emptying but its no worse than the Elsan smell.

While I have your attention on the subject - what idiot thought it would be a good idea to put chem toilet emptying facilities in small rooms with doors that close behind you?
Outdoors is good.
AND - why do most campsites provide a 3 foot square target to empty a 2 inch pipe?
The best ever emptying point is at a campsite on Mull where you turn a collar to expose a 3 inch slot in an upstanding soil pipe - cassette pipe in, tip it up, all gone - no smell at all.

Whatever you choose,
enjoy.


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

OK read all the posts and we are both bemused.

SOG installed in our m/h as part of the deal.

No add costs apart from the filter.

No complaints from other campers, even after a vindaloo!!!.

It gets rid of smells and we use no chemicals, apart from BioChem.

Sorry but we fail to see any negatives apart from the initial cost which for us was zero. 

Or of course (following previous exchanges e.g. Artona) are we living in a different world to everyone else?????

But of course if we are we do not care anymore as no one else can join our world can they!!!


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

aultymer said:


> The Sogs biggest advantage is that it draws all the nasty niffs down from the bowl and punts them outside to whoever has parked too close to you. (if the filter needs changing)
> Chemicals mean that you get an instant hit inside the van when you open the trap. ( I have looked at vans where you could smell the chemicals when you opened the door and you can smell it on peoples clothes at times).
> No contest and no smell in the van even after a fierce curry or night on that stuff the English call beer. (which I must like, given how much I get through!)
> 
> ...


Ooooooh I love it when you talk dirty :lol: :lol:


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## mikkidee (Jun 19, 2009)

AndrewandShirley said:


> Or of course (following previous exchanges e.g. Artona) are we living in a different world to everyone else?????
> 
> But of course if we are we do not care anymore as no one else can join our world can they!!!


Eh????


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Ooooooh I love it when you talk dirty Laughing Laughing


It might be dirty to you but when I was a design engineer for a company that made marine toilets, it was my bread and butter!

We used to make the prototypes from clear plastic so that we could see the motions in motion.


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## Jagman (Feb 16, 2008)

aultymer said:


> [We used to make the prototypes from clear plastic so that we could see the motions in motion.


.......... they call that daytime TV now!


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

We have a SOG fitted to the current motorhome. WILL NOT be fitting one to the new motorhome. We fitted it as we were drawn by the argument of bio friendly and no smell. The fact is that in really hot weather the fan is not always powerful enough to draw all of the smell down and out of the vent. When emptying the smell is beyond anything that man should withstand. It tends to leave a scum around the holding tank that requires far more cleaning regularly than normal fluid.
As for cost of fluid compared to the initial cost of a SOG, then the difference either way is so low that when compared to the cost of a motorhome any saving is insignificant. In fact, to relieve the smell we have gone back to toilet fluid in our SOG.
Haven't tried the Bio washing solution, but may in the future.
Gerry


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## Jodi1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Well thats a decision made then!!!
I had never heard of a Sog until I read about it on this forum and I was interested as it seemed to be, on the face of it, a good thing to have. Started using Bio wash liquid recently and find that works fine. Having now read GerryD's experience of life with a Sog, I'm steering well clear (literally as well :lol: ). I shall now tell the OH I've saved him some money. H'mmmm wonder what I can spend it on. Any suggestions???


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## MikeE (May 1, 2005)

aultymer said:


> AND - why do most campsites provide a 3 foot square target to empty a 2 inch pipe?


Maybe 'cos there are several people out there who manage to miss an 18 inch diameter round one! - like the guy I was unfortunate enough to follow in Scotland a few weeks ago 

Mike


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

I can honestly say thatwe wish we'd had a sog years ago, had one 3 years now and it is brilliant.

Smells emptying are far less unpleasant than feared
No chemicals to cart around, remember to buy, run out of
More eco friendly (gotta be)
Cheaper than chemicals to run (though take your point about formil)

But most of all it is just so much more pleasant to use the loo, be in the washroom or even in the van around the time of someone's visit there! 

One point, try and duct it via the roof if you can, this will minimise any odour to the exterior. This really has not been an issue in our opinion, and we have stood outside and done a few checks!!

Ruth


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

We've had several vans, some with, some without SOG's.

At the time, the advantage of a SOG for us was the ability to empty your toilet even if it was only 1/2 full, just in case there were no emptying facilities at your next stoppover, in the knowledge that you are not wasting expensive chemicals. If you'd have asked the question then I would have said that SOG's are the Dog's. 8) 

The smell on emptying wasn't an issue for me (notice I don't say 'us'), fairly unpleasant but bearable and we never had any smell problems in the van itself.

Since then, the discovery of cheap bio liquid has changed that and its no longer a waste to chuck out a half used cassette load.


We don't have a SOG fitted to our current van, but just use cheap bio stuff instead, what we do have though, is a spare cassette instead, far more useful for extended stays where there are no facilities or you stop somewhere and your toilet is nearly full, just swop cassettes.

So, no SOG for us anymore.

The only possible caveat I have is whether there is going to be any detrimental long term effect or damage to seals/sliders etc when using unnaproved/tested substances in the cassette.

Pete


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Some think the Sog is excellent, some do not. Fine. Experiences differ on lots of topics, live and let live I say. 

I am a Sog fan, pun intended, Alan.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

peejay said:


> The only possible caveat I have is whether there is going to be any detrimental long term effect or damage to seals/sliders etc when using unnaproved/tested substances in the cassette. Pete


Considered that one as well Pete. :wink:

Bio liquid doesn't harm the many seals on a washing machine and it's working at quite high temperatures in there, so I very much doubt if it will harm the Thetford seals either.

The two points crucial to me are . . .

They can no longer be argued/justified as either more eco-friendly or cheaper to run.

Can't think of any other reason for having one . . . we haven't got a big extractor fan in the bog at home. I just start my stopwatch when Mrs Zeb comes out!! 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

And for those who really love their sog here is a registratio9n number to go with it
And they are all for sale

Dave p


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> And for those who really love their Sog here is a registratio9n number to go with it
> 
> Dave p


I suppose my avatar is quite apt as well. :wink:

Pete


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

No you're wrong!!


If a Sog means no chemicals surely that has to be a good thing?
Bio washing powder (in liquid form obviously) may not be too bad since so many people use it, but surely less is better?

Our built in 70 litre black tank is about 3 feet off the floor, fed from a marine loo so it has a trap to prevent niffs coming back inside. The tank is vented to the roof via a carbon filter which is at least 3 years old and still working (no niffs here either!). No electric fan is required for this vent to work! And no chemicals.

What idiot decided any elsan point needed to be off the floor in the first place!? 3' square, 3' up and behind a door? Whats wrong with a 6" hole in the floor next to or in the road? 70 litres 3' up coming out of a 4" pipe doesn't run uphill behind doors! Decanting is not one of my favorite jobs. (Doesn't run at all when the bottom inch is frozen, requiring pipe off, tent peg prodding it directly till you judge its just about to move and put the pipe on quick!! A drop of screenwash in an empty tank does wonders to stop that evil scenario!) 8O


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Pedants of the World unite!! :wink: :lol: :lol:



grizzlyj said:


> No you're wrong!!


So are you! :lol: It's washing _liquid _we are talking about. There is (apparently) a lot of difference between the two, apart from the obvious appearance! 



grizzlyj said:


> If a Sog means no chemicals surely that has to be a good thing? . . . . . .
> 
> . . . . . A drop of screenwash in an empty tank does wonders to stop that evil scenario!)


So screenwash isn't a chemical then? 8O 8O

No offence - just being a boring old fart!! :wink: :lol: :lol:

Again!! 8O

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I just could not resist this one.
And it is for sale

Dave p


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Luckily we don't camp in -10degC year round, so an egg cup amount of screenwash perhaps twice a year is a tiny amount compared to the BP sized pollution that could be saved if you all had Sogs!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

grizzlyj said:


> . . . so an egg cup amount of screenwash perhaps twice a year is a tiny amount compared to the BP sized pollution that could be saved if you all had Sogs!





grizzlyj (a little earlier) said:


> . . . but surely less is better?


Q.E.D. :wink:

BOFs rule - OK! :wink: :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Everything that goes down the loo is made up of chemicals. :lol: 
urine ph ranges from 4.5 to 8

Dave p


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Everything that goes down the loo is made up of chemicals. :lol:
> urine ph ranges from 4.5 to 8
> Dave p


To be even more pedantic than I was before Dave :roll: . . . Everything is made up of chemicals.

And that means EVERYTHING!!! 8O

Dave


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## bookworm (Dec 8, 2008)

Maybe I am wrong but I think I have heard somewhere that Thetford's warranty is invalidated if a Sog is fitted


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> Maybe I am wrong but I think I have heard somewhere that Thetford's warranty is invalidated if a Sog is fitted


Yes you are wrong  Spoke to Sog UK to clarify that as I resell SOGs and they tell me that in the beginning many years ago when SOG systems first came out there were mumblings that maybe there might be an issue as the original systems required you to physically modify the thetford cassette itself i.e. drilling hole in the cassette neck, but this was never confirmed as being an issue, and years back they changed the design so that no actual drilling or major modification is needed to the cassette when fitting the SOG so no issues whatsoever


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Just looked up SOG on Wikipedia.

Their definition: Sea of Green a method for growing cannabis!!

Enough to put you off your pot innit!? :lol:


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## 2Dreamers (Jun 11, 2006)

*SOG*

Peejay
As you are allowed to empty a sog operated toilet down a public toilet would it still be legal if it has a additive of any nature.
Theres one for ya

2dreamers


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

It makes your poo and pee smell like the Queens! :lol: :lol: 

David


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## TDG (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> ...I am a Sog fan, pun intended, Alan.


Ah :!: so it's you blowing it this way :!: :roll:


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

*Re: Sog operated toilet down a public toilet would it still be legal if it has a additive of any nature.
Theres one for ya

2dreamers[/quote]

Dunno, suppose it would be ok as long as there is no nasty additives like formaldehyde, but not really sure tbh.

Pete*


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

b16duv said:


> It makes your poo and pee smell like the Queens! :lol: :lol:
> 
> David


So which Queens have you been the guest of. :lol:

Or did you mean the pub.

Dave p


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Of course one consideration is if you are a slide open or slide closed sort of person. According to the Thetford manual both are 'acceptable'.

Well we are slide closed people so it only gets opened when you flush, much like the loo at home really. If you are a slide open person then I can see that having a sog would keep the immediate smells down. 

One of the things that is not often realised is that poo breaks down and can become bearable if not pleasant but urine gets smellier.

At least all the users of sogs have proved in a round about way that BioMagic was not snake oil and actually did something.


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