# UK Aire



## DJMotorhomer

IF AN AIRE LIKE IN FRANCE WAS OPENED IN THE UK NEAR A POPULAR SPOT AND HAD AMENITIES WOULD YOU USE IT ?


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## Glandwr

Can't see why not are you thinking of anything in particular?

Dick


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## ChrisandJohn

Depends where it was, but generally, Yes.

But Dave, why are you suddenly shouting? :?  



Chris


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## bognormike

yes, why not?


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## alphadee

Of course!


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## DJMotorhomer

Sorry for that did not realise the CAPS lock was on.

I am thinking about starting one off for approx 20 vans, where, I do not know yet. Just dipping my toe in the water

cheers

DJM


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## Glandwr

Planning could be a problem

Dick


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## barryd

Depends. I choose my locations carefully. The CL sites in this country and wild camping spots suit us perfectly. We have a scooter so I would rather be in a lovely grassy field for £4 a night in the middle of knowhere or a wild spot similar. An Aire in the UK is hardly going to be on a comparison to some of the amazing Aires we use in the EU so probably not.

HAving said that I am very much in support for aires in the UK but I wont hold my breath.


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## Wilmannie

Certainly, if it was somewhere I wanted to go.


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## jwinder

yes


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## rayc

DJMotorhomer said:


> Sorry for that did not realise the CAPS lock was on.
> 
> I am thinking about starting one off for approx 20 vans, where, I do not know yet. Just dipping my toe in the water
> 
> cheers
> 
> DJM


I guess you have already discounted Dorset? If you ever get it approved by any council here I will be surprised.


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## IanA

Yes, central London would be nice


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## goldi

Evening all,

Why would you you need planning permission to park a vehicle it would be gone the next morning ?


norm


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## DJMotorhomer

Its all just at the bubble stage at the moment, but obviously I need to know if people would be interested.

DJM


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## 100127

Yes please


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## 1302

For what it is worth I think you would find a great deal of interest - depending on where it was. We love the aires in France/Germany/Portugal - a cheap/free stopover is ideal. We have recently started using more CLs in the UK (we are on one tonight) and at anything from a fiver they still do represent good value and a nice spot to stay - this one is a tenner but it is a lovely spot. They/that would be yournonlynreal competition I guess.

Good luck with it


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## coroner

from the experience of the one on lake windermere i say get it sorted when can u open


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## Gary1944

Yes, unlike Barry we use our legs for motive power when parked up so look for somewhere that is within walking distance to a centre or has good local transport.

Gary.


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## rod_vw

Yes of course, but keep it small.

We find that's the attraction of the French Aires, small and open to the community that way you feel part of that community.

Planning permission will no doubt be a pain but as was said above all you are asking for is a car park with hopefully a water supply, a grey water drain and if possible black water disposal. Certainly NOT a camp site.

A truck stop is exactly the same thing which may be a good arguing point and motor homers park quietly!

Rod


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## jonegood

YES It would encourage us to spend more of our time in the UK.

I have previously approached several bodies with a view to simply relaxing the various organisations (ie NT) and local authorities attitude to overnight parking in their carparks and the national trust.

The problem seems that the councils are scared of Gypsies occupying their carparks. and the others seem to run everything by the caravan club, who are totally against it.

Also the councillors start complicating it by talking about electricity and shower blocks etc. It is quite sad that they cannot see the benefits, they could even make money out of it.

I think a network of council carparks who just reline a few bays and charge £5-£10 a night and a 48hour limit would be very cheap and easy to set up. It could be policed in exactly the same way the current car park spaces are. I don t believe that they would even need to provide bornes as most people can manage a night or two and can then head to a site for facilities. If it took off you could probably persuade tescos etc or some of the garages to provide bornes on their filling stations. 


Jon


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## 113016

DJMotorhomer said:


> Its all just at the bubble stage at the moment, but obviously I need to know if people would be interested.
> 
> DJM


Dave, just look how popular Millers Aire at Ambleside is!
It's all about location, location and location, and of course price.
Maybe have a chat to Graeme at Ambleside  
Good luck with whatever you decide


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## 113016

One thing I will add, is that earlier in my working life, I spent well over 20 years, in Marine retail. 
My hobby from a kid was waterskiing (summer and winter, every week) and I thought how great to do a job which you enjoy, and it was, but and there is a BIG BUT. It does spoil it for your hobby as it is no longer anything different. You tend to get no off duty time!


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## blondel

Yes - There is nowhere to stay close to Liverpool! :wink:


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## JockandRita

Rita and I would certainly be interested, especially if within walking/cycling distance of amenities, or on a good bus route.

There is so much of the UK we haven't seen, but we are not made to feel welcome as MH'ers here, as we are in France, Belgium, and Germany.

Good luck with it DJM. :thumbright: 

Cheers,

Jock.


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## DaveAndMichelle

Yes is my simple answer

We would like to use them. We have been looking at them in the UK for later on this year and quite a few seem to be in pub car parks .

Dave


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## DJMotorhomer

It just came to me as we sat pitched at the aire at Les Islettes here in France. It was a lovely aire, hardstanding area with oodles of grass in front. Toilets, showers and dump station but the location although picturesque and quiet, it was too far from the village and bus route etc.

As we have been touring Europe now since Nov 11th 2012 we have seen both good and not so good aires.

My good lady took early retirement and I gave up work and as we are returning to blighty in September we are thinking of what options we have. One was to become wardens at a site, freeing us for those winter months so we can travel again, and then the idea of an aire in the UK was a good idea.

My previous job was very people based and that is what I enjoy and camping too so why not combine the two.

As I say its all at the idea stage at the moment. We would have to find the right location, a house there with scope to build a toilet block etc.

We know what is required to make MHers happy.

Once we are back in the UK I will put the feelers out and see exactly what would be required i.e public liability insurance, councils, health & safety to name but three !!!

Just wanted feedback to see if that is what would be welcomed by my fellow MHing friends  

Keep the replies coming.

Cheers

DJM :wink:


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## barryd

DJMotorhomer said:


> It just came to me as we sat pitched at the aire at Les Islettes here in France. It was a lovely aire, hardstanding area with oodles of grass in front. Toilets, showers and dump station but the location although picturesque and quiet, it was too far from the village and bus route etc.
> 
> As we have been touring Europe now since Nov 11th 2012 we have seen both good and not so good aires.
> 
> My good lady took early retirement and I gave up work and as we are returning to blighty in September we are thinking of what options we have. One was to become wardens at a site, freeing us for those winter months so we can travel again, and then the idea of an aire in the UK was a good idea.
> 
> My previous job was very people based and that is what I enjoy and camping too so why not combine the two.
> 
> As I say its all at the idea stage at the moment. We would have to find the right location, a house there with scope to build a toilet block etc.
> 
> We know what is required to make MHers happy.
> 
> Once we are back in the UK I will put the feelers out and see exactly what would be required i.e public liability insurance, councils, health & safety to name but three !!!
> 
> Just wanted feedback to see if that is what would be welcomed by my fellow MHing friends
> 
> Keep the replies coming.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> DJM :wink:


I have often wondered about doing this. Maybe getting an acre or two of land and turning it into an Aire for perhaps 30 motorhomes but I bet its not straight forward in the UK. Probably all sorts of legislation and H&S crap to look into.

30 vans in a field, fiver a night. Sounds good to me.


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## rugbyken

I keep thinking of using the park & ride scheme the way the Italians do a lot of their sostas, here in Leicester there are two that get barely 10% capacity a simple charge would stop people abusing the facility , and sites are already serviced for rubbish etc and a wc's block on site so drainage in place only a small adaption req'd.


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## goldi

Morning all,

there are plenty pubs up for sale with good carparks, some are near town centres or on main roads, get the pub changed from commercial to private to keep tax down and use the carpark.

norm


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## hogan

Yes we never use sites if poss.only aires or wild camping.


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## rotorywing

Next to a canal would be perfect, there's hundred of miles in this country that could be used

Martin


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## ChaseTracker

If in a area we were interested, we use French,German and Italian aires so why not in the UK. Go for it best of luck with planning stuff. 8)


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## Stanner

goldi said:


> there are plenty pubs up for sale with good carparks, some are near town centres or on main roads,


The first bit is easy.
http://www.fleurets.com/pubs/pubs-for-sale.asp



> get the pub changed from commercial to private to keep tax down and use the carpark.


The second bit isn't.


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## McGeemobile

Apart from the aire at Ambleside there are a number of other small aires in the UK as Northern Ireland has quite a few now (Annalong, Donaghadee, Carrickfergus, Whitehead and Broughshane ) so there must be a way round the red tape.
Good luck!


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## zack

Yes would certainly be interested and would use if located relatively close. We should be able to replicate AIres in uk. Councils are being shortsighted.


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## Tucano

We would definitely use an Aire if they were in the UK.
Hope it works out for you should you go ahead with the idea, I have often thought of doing the same myself, good luck.
Norman.


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## Zozzer

DJMotorhomer said:


> IF AN AIRE LIKE IN FRANCE WAS OPENED IN THE UK NEAR A POPULAR SPOT AND HAD AMENITIES WOULD YOU USE IT ?


Only if it was given an English name. Far to many people refer to Stellplatz and Sostas as Aire's


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## pippin

The conversation might go like this:

"I would like to open an Aire/Sosta/Stellplatz"

"Eh- what's that then?"

"A place for motorhomes to stop overnight."

"Oh, a Travellers' site - no chance!"

"No - this is for recreational motorhomers."

"Ah - a campsite! - There are plenty of those nearby."

"Yes, but they are all outside the town/village."

"What's wrong with that then?"

"Well, we would like to visit your restaurants/cafés/shops & etc but we can't do that without driving into town, where we find difficulties in parking legally. 
Not only that but it means we cannot have a drink with our meal as we have to drive back to the campsite. 
A further difficulty is that most campsites don't allow driving on site after 22:00."

"Oh, I didn't know that."

"I guess you also don't know that most motorhomes are self-sufficient for two, three or more days/nights and do not need the facilities (showers, toilets, washing-up areas.) of a campsite charging £25 per night."

"Really? So what are you suggesting?"

"A simple car-park tucked away on the outskirts or even in the centre of town/village within easy walking distance of the facilities of *your* town/village where we can spend *our* money in *your* businesses."

"But we already have carparks!"

"With a 2metre height barrier and prominent signs stating no sleeping overnight in vehicles."

"Well, we have to do that to stop the 'Travellers/Gypsies from taking the area over and staying for weeks and making a huge mess."

"There are literally thousands of these facilities for motorhomers on the Continent and there are rarely problems of that sort."

"This sounds as though it will cost a lot of money!"

"Not at all. 
A corner of a carpark with larger bays solely for the use of motorhomes to come and go as they please for stays up to one, two or three nights.
A charge of about £5 (€5) per 24hours is the norm on the Continent "

"Ah, but the local campsite owners will complain at the loss of business."

"The motorhomers that will use the facility rarely patronise campsites for the reasons given above.
The spending on readily accessible businesses in your town/village will more than compensate."

"But I have heard that motorhomers bring all their supplies with them."

"Urban myth. 
Many motorhomers have real disposable income and actively want to patronise your local shops, cafés, restaurants and tourist attractions."

"Sounds good - I will see what I can do!"

"Thanks - and I am more than happy to set up the facility *myself* IF you support my planning application!"


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## Suzysetter

Yes


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## georgiemac

Absolutely would support you on this Love Ambleside. As has been mentioned somewhere near public transport would be ideal. Perhaps you could end up with a chain of them.


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## barryd

Call me cynical but the words Wall, Brick, Head and Banging against spring to mind.


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## 1302

Seriously DJM - I would be prepared to give you a hand with this. Ive discuss the possibility of similar services in our village which would benefit from folk using the local pubs/cafes/restaurants etc.

I have also (and still do some work) worked for the local authorities in the UK and Scotland so I know my way round some of it 

Paul


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## 91502

Nice idea and I would love to see one in all towns and villages across the UK as we do in France.
My only concern is the I sometimes feel that some people don't want an aire what they actually want is a cheap no frills campsite/CL, especially people who have not used aires in Europe.
I know some in France offer toilets and showers but most are just as they were ment to be basic overnight parking with maybe a point for refilling and disposal of water and waste.
I often read when people post on this subject "does it have showers or enough room to put the awning and barbecue out" this isn't an aire it is a campsite and this is what I believe what will be the stumbling block with the planners.
Yes a communal area to put your chairs and be able to use your barbecue or even built in ones to use would be very nice but I think if you try and add more it will be a struggle to get permission.
People seem to like the idea of a low price but not of less facilities.
I believe what a lot of people want is actually widely available in CL's etc.
I also think that at £5 a night you would struggle to even breakeven never mind make any money if you start to build shower blocks etc, its not the initial cost but the business rates, water and sewage bills which would come pretty high for such a venture where as a simple services point would be a lot cheaper.
Also you need to think 30 x £5 a night would be a nice income but will you get 30 vans a night unless you are next to a busy visitor attraction?
In the UK I would expect many months of very little money coming in.
All the best if you do go ahead.

James
Ps. We may have 2 1/2 acres of land with a stone cabon for sale 18km from St Tropez in a national park if your interested for around €20k?


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## DJMotorhomer

1302 said:


> Seriously DJM - I would be prepared to give you a hand with this. Ive discuss the possibility of similar services in our village which would benefit from folk using the local pubs/cafes/restaurants etc.
> 
> I have also (and still do some work) worked for the local authorities in the UK and Scotland so I know my way round some of it
> 
> Paul


Hi Paul

Thanks for the offer. Once I return home and get settled in I will contact you.

Thanks again

Dave


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## Stanner

JP said:


> I often read when people post on this subject "does it have showers or enough room to put the awning and barbecue out" this isn't an aire it is a campsite and this is what I believe what will be the stumbling block with the planners.


How right you are! These will be the very people who stymie any chance of getting a network of "Aires" going in the UK - they just really do not understand the basic principle of "somewhere to stop overnight in a self contained(!!!!) motorhome with facilities to dispose of waste and take on fresh water".

If you want a campsite - USE ONE!

If users are going to demand a higher level of facilities then Yes, it is going to be a problem with most authorities given the problems they have at present finding enough money for statutory responsibilities let alone "flights of fancy".


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## Zebedee

BUT . . . would a network of "aires" be successful in this country?

I think the main reason they are so popular on the Continent is mostly because it is so big! Most people find themselves travelling greater distances than can be covered in one day, so an aire is perfect for an overnight stop.

In the UK many/most places can be reached fairly easily in a day, except for a comparatively few journeys from one end to the other. I wonder if most folk _(other than a few cheapskates_! :lol: ) would use UK "aires" only on those long trips?

The "cheapskates" reference is not really a joke. They are (_presumably_) the ones who would take all their own food etc., and would spend little or nothing in the local businesses - which would soon be noticed to the detriment of all concerned.

I really don't know, since there's only one way to find out - and that's unlikely to happen with the CC and C&CC being so strongly in opposition.

Just chucking in a further point to ponder. :wink:

Dave


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## barryd

Why don't they just change the laws in this country to say your allowed to park overnight and sleep in your vehicle for a max of 24 hours?


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## Zebedee

barryd said:


> Why don't they just change the laws in this country to say your allowed to park overnight and sleep in your vehicle for a max of 24 hours?


Two reasons spring immediately to mind Barry.

A small percentage of motorhomers would seriously abuse the privilege. There's always a few short sighted and utterly self centred pillocks who ruin anything that's cheap or free!! :roll:

The restrictions would need to be enforced for those above, plus any travellers who decided to take root.

That would cost money, and would eat up manpower and resources - so it ain't going to happen!

Dave


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## 747

I would normally agree with every word you said Zeb ....... until I read Saturdays Daily Express.

The Police moved in to a gypsy encampment in Park Lane, London to remove a large group of Roma travellers who had blighted the area. It was opposite the Dorchester Hotel.

The Police can do it when they want but it seems only when the wealthy are inconvenienced. Quote, 'The authorities acted after fed up families and businesses in London complained their presence was making lives a misery' Unquote.

So much for David Cameron and 'we are all in it together'. :roll:


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## jonegood

JP said:


> Nice idea and I would love to see one in all towns and villages across the UK as we do in France.
> My only concern is the I sometimes feel that some people don't want an aire what they actually want is a cheap no frills campsite/CL, especially people who have not used aires in Europe.
> I know some in France offer toilets and showers but most are just as they were ment to be basic overnight parking with maybe a point for refilling and disposal of water and waste.
> I often read when people post on this subject "does it have showers or enough room to put the awning and barbecue out" this isn't an aire it is a campsite and this is what I believe what will be the stumbling block with the planners.
> Yes a communal area to put your chairs and be able to use your barbecue or even built in ones to use would be very nice but I think if you try and add more it will be a struggle to get permission.
> People seem to like the idea of a low price but not of less facilities.
> I believe what a lot of people want is actually widely available in CL's etc.
> I also think that at £5 a night you would struggle to even breakeven never mind make any money if you start to build shower blocks etc, its not the initial cost but the business rates, water and sewage bills which would come pretty high for such a venture where as a simple services point would be a lot cheaper.
> Also you need to think 30 x £5 a night would be a nice income but will you get 30 vans a night unless you are next to a busy visitor attraction?
> In the UK I would expect many months of very little money coming in.
> All the best if you do go ahead.
> 
> James
> Ps. We may have 2 1/2 acres of land with a stone cabon for sale 18km from St Tropez in a national park if your interested for around €20k?


Sorry james

I disagree with nearly all of this.

What I want is simply an authorised reasonable place to park that is next to somewhere I want to be ie castle, town, beach, lake etc. I would like to be able to walk into town have a long lunch/dinner with wine/beer without having to worry about anything.

This is where CLs dont deliver for me because ( with a few exceptions) they tend to be miles away from anywhere.

I think the real point of aires is that they let you have a taste of a place without committing fully. There are places we go back and back to because we tried the aire and then liked the place.

I don t want showers or to put my bbq out, if I wanted that i would go to a site.

No offence intended

Jon


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## Stanner

jonegood said:


> JP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice idea and I would love to see one in all towns and villages across the UK as we do in France.
> My only concern is the I sometimes feel that some people don't want an aire what they actually want is a cheap no frills campsite/CL, especially people who have not used aires in Europe.
> I know some in France offer toilets and showers but most are just as they were ment to be basic overnight parking with maybe a point for refilling and disposal of water and waste.
> I often read when people post on this subject "does it have showers or enough room to put the awning and barbecue out" this isn't an aire it is a campsite and this is what I believe what will be the stumbling block with the planners.
> Yes a communal area to put your chairs and be able to use your barbecue or even built in ones to use would be very nice but I think if you try and add more it will be a struggle to get permission.
> People seem to like the idea of a low price but not of less facilities.
> I believe what a lot of people want is actually widely available in CL's etc.
> I also think that at £5 a night you would struggle to even breakeven never mind make any money if you start to build shower blocks etc, its not the initial cost but the business rates, water and sewage bills which would come pretty high for such a venture where as a simple services point would be a lot cheaper.
> Also you need to think 30 x £5 a night would be a nice income but will you get 30 vans a night unless you are next to a busy visitor attraction?
> In the UK I would expect many months of very little money coming in.
> All the best if you do go ahead.
> 
> James
> Ps. We may have 2 1/2 acres of land with a stone cabon for sale 18km from St Tropez in a national park if your interested for around €20k?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry james
> 
> I disagree with nearly all of this.
> 
> What I want is simply an authorised reasonable place to park that is next to somewhere I want to be ie castle, town, beach, lake etc. I would like to be able to walk into town have a long lunch/dinner with wine/beer without having to worry about anything.
> 
> This is where CLs dont deliver for me because ( with a few exceptions) they tend to be miles away from anywhere.
> 
> I think the real point of aires is that they let you have a taste of a place without committing fully. There are places we go back and back to because we tried the aire and then liked the place.
> 
> I don t want showers or to put my bbq out, if I wanted that i would go to a site.
> 
> No offence intended
> 
> Jon
Click to expand...

I thought that was the same point as JP made............. :?

If you want facilities go to a site/cl/cs - if you don't want a long walk or to use public transport, do without the facilities.


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## johnthompson

I am in favour of UK style Aires. They are established in Northern Ireland now. They were obtained by the work of the Motorhome Association there. However the so called Aires in England are simply motorhome caravan sites.

The one in Ambleside is to all intents and purpose a caravan site. You have to pre book. It is licenced by the local authority.

Canterbury is a car park that allows overnight stops, as is Fylde councils efforts . I have been contacting every council in England Scotland and Wales. There are a number who do not have restrictions on cooking, eating and sleeping in vehicles. There are other who allow 1 in 7 nights (Powys). Darlington does not have overnight sleeping bans etc. Torridge now allows overnight stays. It is mainly the honey pots that attract visitors and that have the restrictions. Although there are some other that plainly don't wish to know and state motor caravans are not welcome even as day visitors/tourists.

I am working to update the info that Graham Hadfield had on his Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly website which he is closing next month. This new info I will be putting on new website myself.

I am working as part of the group that has formed "The Motorhome Tourism Organisation" http://www.tmcto.org A group that is trying to emulate the work that the Motorhome Association did in Northern Ireland to get UK Aires established here. This group stated 6 weeks ago as Camper stops but changed its name to avoid confusion with another organisation of the same name

Local Authorities can and do provide caravan sites but the majority then put them out to management by the Caravan Club. They therefor don't want competition with these sites. Don't just blame the Caravan Club for being anti Aires. Government attitude is that it is up to the private sector now to provide all facilities, within the regulations, not government bodies or local authorities.

Now down to the realities. There is no law in the UK that requires Caravan/Motorhome users to use a caravan site. 
There is however the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 amended 1986. (The 1960 Act). This requires *any landowner *to seek planning permission and a site licence to operate a place where caravans and that includes motorhomes to be occupied (for Human habitation) on. That is a caravan site be it a pub car park, a bit of tarmac or a full blown caravan site. There is no place that does not need planning permission and a site licence in the UK to operate a caravan site/motorhome parking place.

The 28 day rule exemption allows 1 van to stay for one or two nights only and that can only happen for 28 nights in a calendar year. If the holding is more than 5 acres 3 vans can be occupied but the same 28 nights in a calendar year rule applies.

CLs are operated under exemptions, as are rallies and temporary holiday sites. These operate under presumed consent under the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947 and the 1960 Act. The exempted clubs licence them.

It is the local Planning Authorities that enforce these regulations. Parking has now been decriminalised in most places in the UK and the local authorities have taken over these regulations as well imposing Penalty Charge Notices (PCN), instead if fines.

Some authorities are sticklers for the rules others take a more relaxed attitude. Then the legal department steps in and they are made to tow the line and facilities they have granted are withdrawn. We have seen this happen on a few occasions already.

DEFRA issue regulations to all authorities about licencing caravan sites and this stipulates that they *have to provide *so many toilets, wash basins and showers, for each sex for particular numbers of units on site. Local authorities are only following these rules when they jump in with the toilets issue. Local authorities are closing toilets to save money, so there is little chance of them providing new facilities or dump points.

The regulations have not moved on from the 1950s however motor caravans, as we know them, were not on the road then either, so they is a conflict. Natural England (DEFRA) know about this problem and that the 1960 Act is out of date, but there is not the incentive or finance available to do a rewrite of the law, so it stand as it is.

Until all these issues are addressed nothing useful will be achieve. Lobbying MPs and Tourist boards may get us a lot further than petitions and chasing councils strapped for cash will. There are grants available through tourism bodies still.

Good luck with your idea and keep us in the loop.


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## cliffhanger

yup, but it would have to be some size once the news got round 8)


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## goldi

barryd said:


> Why don't they just change the laws in this country to say your allowed to park overnight and sleep in your vehicle for a max of 24 hours?


 Morning all,

You are allowed to park unless there is aby law that says you can,t.

norm


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## johnthompson

As Norm says Under UK law you can do anything unless it is prohibited.

Under continental law you are not permitted to do something unless the law says you can.

This is the fundamental difference and is how we can use A frames and those abroad are prohibited.

Back to the subject UK Aires.


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## janet1

We would certainly use UK aires.


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## neilanddot

Like France It wouldn't even need to be in a popular area and we would use it. Neil and Dot


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## oldun

DJMotorhomer said:


> Sorry for that did not realise the CAPS lock was on.
> 
> I am thinking about starting one off for approx 20 vans, where, I do not know yet. Just dipping my toe in the water
> 
> cheers
> 
> DJM


A great idea but if it has plenty of facilities how can it be an Aire? - surely it would be a another campsite with a nightly fee 9hopefully very small!!)


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## johnthompson

The site at Millers Field, Ambleside has room for 50 vans. So your proposal is possible. You need to consider the costs and fees charged to at least break even, on such a venture as starting a private UK Aire.

Rates
Insurance, 
Water charges
Electricity charges.
Telephone charges
return on capital invested
cost of planning permission
cost of licence.
cost of advertising including web costs
Some element of cost for your labour

You will rarely achieve more than 50% capacity apart from the odd night or two. There may be periods of no use at all.


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## johnthompson

oldun said:


> DJMotorhomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for that did not realise the CAPS lock was on.
> 
> I am thinking about starting one off for approx 20 vans, where, I do not know yet. Just dipping my toe in the water
> 
> cheers
> 
> DJM
> 
> 
> 
> A great idea but if it has plenty of facilities how can it be an Aire? - surely it would be a another campsite with a nightly fee 9hopefully very small!!)
Click to expand...

Not all Aires are free to use. As a business it needs to cover its costs to remain viable.

A Motorhome Aire only needs level parking on reasonably firm ground. Services required are simple.
A toilet dump
Grey water waste dump (could be combined with the toilet dump)
Dry waste bin
Drinking water supply point

Aires do not need showers, Toilets, or other facilities. Motorhomes have these built in. If you need or want more than the basics, you need to go to an CL or caravan site.


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## oldun

johnthompson said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DJMotorhomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for that did not realise the CAPS lock was on.
> 
> I am thinking about starting one off for approx 20 vans, where, I do not know yet. Just dipping my toe in the water
> 
> cheers
> 
> DJM
> 
> 
> 
> A great idea but if it has plenty of facilities how can it be an Aire? - surely it would be a another campsite with a nightly fee 9hopefully very small!!)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all Aires are free to use. As a business it needs to cover its costs to remain viable.
> 
> A Motorhome Aire only needs level parking on reasonably firm ground. Services required are simple.
> A toilet dump
> Grey water waste dump (could be combined with the toilet dump)
> Dry waste bin
> Drinking water supply point
> 
> Aires do not need showers, Toilets, or other facilities. Motorhomes have these built in. If you need or want more than the basics, you need to go to an CL or caravan site.
Click to expand...

Yes I am well aware of the tradition type of french Aire.

However when you start adding toilets, showers, electricity etc etc then you are describing a campsite.


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