# Ban on Speed Camera detectors in France!!!



## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

Under new traffic laws, Speed Camera Detectors are to be banned in France. This includes all types of detectors.
Please read below.

Speed Camera Detectors

The most significant and controversial of the new measures is a ban on the use of speed camera warning devices.

In future, possession of an avertisseur de radars is punishable by a fine of €1500 and loss of six points on the licence. The police have been granted powers of seizure, which can include the vehicle itself if the device cannot be removed from the vehicle.

By way of dispensation, the use of warning devices that signal 'accident black spots' (where there may or may not be speed cameras), will continue to be permitted. The accident black spots have yet to be defined by the government.

Simultaneously with the introduction of the new offence the government have reached agreement with the main manufacturers - Coyote, Inforad or Wikango - to remove radar detection functionality from their equipment.

Those with existing speed camera detection systems are required to bring them into conformity with the regulations, a process which can be done over the internet, by simple deactivation of the function, or by a visit to the garage for those devices built integrally into the car. Older versions not capable of being altered will need to be removed from the vehicle.

For those with GPS via a Smartphone, then it will be necessary to charge a new version available over the internet e.g. App Store, Android Market.

Happy Days!!

Regards
Alshymer


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I believe Garmin are already producing a sat nav for France with "danger areas" to mark fixed speed camersa.
They have been accepted by the authorities.

Dave p


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Well if this isn't a revenue generating idea I don't know what is?
It defies logic about 'safety'. Sat Navs give out speed warnings all the time to keep us within the regs and laws.

This is like removing speed signs to get nicked for speeding.

Ray.


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

They are also thinking of removing the signs!! How did you know?
Regards
Alshymer


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

discussed a few weeks ago

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-118946-0-days0-orderasc-.html

(and I've moved this thread into France touring)


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

It is perhaps not surprising how many different interpretations of this proposed change there have been in different motoring forums. There have been several on this one with quotes from French authorities and they all contradict one another in some way.
Is it complicated? What does the French Law say about the situation as it is today and what about the 'Spring' when thing are said to change?
By the way Speed Camera Detectors have always been banned in France, lets not get them confused with GPS Fixed Speed Camera location warnings.

I try to look on this move by the French in some positive way but find it very hard. They seem to be following the UK in prefering punishment, i.e fines, to prevention in the first place. We are of course in no position to lecture them when our own justice sectretary is proposing to increase the FPN amount from £60 to £100 under the guise of 'victim surcharge'. Dorset has it's 'No Excuse' campaign where the profits from Driver Awareness Courses are retained by the Police. Wherever there is traffic enforcement there is money in the background whether it is speed cameras, yellow box enforcement, bus lanes or parking.

Of topic but the UK Government announced yesterday that they will not be bringing the UK MOT testing regime in line with France and Germany by implementing the 4 -2-2 year regime but retaining the 3-1-1 year one. They do though acknowledge that garages must be checked regularly and it ensured that they are not using it as a money generating scheme by finding non existant faults.


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## ralph-dot (May 10, 2005)

It is really interesting that many people believed that this was always the law in France and now it is.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

If its a speed camera detector then this is surely the type that detects the radio wave emmitted from the speed camera or gun to measure the speed. These have always been illegal as far as i know.

The ones on sat navs that just happen to know the location of the camers isnt the same thing. Are we saying this is now illegal?

What about maps with camera location on....


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Mods!

There are now four separate threads running on this!

Lots of people asking questions etc that have beeen dealt with already


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## teljoy (Jul 4, 2005)

trevd01 said:


> Mods!
> 
> There are now four separate threads running on this!
> 
> Lots of people asking questions etc that have beeen dealt with already


I've read most of these threads and I'm still confused. Tom Tom seem to be advising how to take off the camera location POIs and I have done so.

But I don't think drcotts question has been satisfactorily answered?

"The ones on sat navs that just happen to know the location of the camer s isn't the same thing. Are we saying this is now illegal?

What about maps with camera location on.... "

Terry


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

trevd01 said:


> Mods!
> 
> There are now four separate threads running on this!
> 
> Lots of people asking questions etc that have beeen dealt with already


I did point this out earlier, and provided the link

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-1194445.html#1194445

:idea:


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## val33 (Jun 29, 2008)

teljoy said:


> "The ones on sat navs that just happen to know the location of the camer s isn't the same thing. Are we saying this is now illegal?
> 
> What about maps with camera location on.... "
> 
> Terry


Yes, that is exactly what the French have decided.

See this link to Garmin for further info. Garmin French Camera Page Click on the link in the RED writing.

So basically it looks like the satnav manufacturers basically change the name of the warnings from 'Safety Cameras' to 'Danger Zones'. Make the area of the warning larger (to meet with the legislation) and all continues as normal!

Got to love the French 

Val

If link does not work, copy and paste this into your browser: http://www.garmin.com/uk/extras-camera-alerts/#france


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

yep, anything for bit of extra beurocracy :roll:


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## jenk1947 (May 1, 2005)

Maps sold in France cannot have speed camera warnings. I don't know how you go on with maps produced outside the country but certainly you will not be able to buy a map in France with camera warnings on.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

jenk1947 said:


> Maps sold in France cannot have speed camera warnings. I don't know how you go on with maps produced outside the country but certainly you will not be able to buy a map in France with camera warnings on.


so would mounsieur Gendarme get your road atlas (bought in Dover, with the big writing on the front "including speed camera locations" out of the front window & say Hah! got you? It's all a nonsense and completely unenforceable.... :x


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just got this off www.mappy.fr today with speed cameras listed.

Prendre à droite N13 et continuer sur 68 km 0h46 25.6 mi 
CAEN
ISIGNY-SUR-MER
32.9 mi Radar 110 km/h - Isigny-sur-Mer 
42.0 mi Passer par Normanville 
50.1 mi Passer près de Bayeux 
60.5 mi Radar 70 km/h - Loucelles 
60.5 mi Passer par Sainte-Croix-Grand-Tonne 
62.7 mi Passer près de Caen 
67.5 mi Radar 90 km/h - Carpiquet

Ray.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jenk1947 said:


> Maps sold in France cannot have speed camera warnings. I don't know how you go on with maps produced outside the country but certainly you will not be able to buy a map in France with camera warnings on.


But perfectly legal to have "safety alert section shows all roads requiring special attention, such as steep gradients and difficult or dangerous sections. In line with official government recommendations, Michelin now uses an exclamation-mark pictogram to show risky areas where additional traffic speed cameras may be installed"

Michelin Atlas 2012

Got to love the French


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

*Help!*

We have a Garmin Nuvi 1640, after reading these posts about the ban in France, we have been onto the Garmin website and followed the instructions above but it says "there are no updates available".

Can anyone tell me if we should be doing something else? Does this mean we cannot use our Garmin in France?

I'm confused.....


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Help!*



esperelda said:


> We have a Garmin Nuvi 1640, after reading these posts about the ban in France, we have been onto the Garmin website and followed the instructions above but it says "there are no updates available".
> 
> Can anyone tell me if we should be doing something else? Does this mean we cannot use our Garmin in France?
> 
> I'm confused.....


Has it got French camera locations on it now?


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## esperelda (Sep 17, 2010)

He has found a tick box which is currently 'on' for 'Safety cameras'.

But can find no ref to French cameras.

Is it just a question of taking the tick out of the box?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

esperelda said:


> He has found a tick box which is currently 'on' for 'Safety cameras'.
> 
> But can find no ref to French cameras.
> 
> Is it just a question of taking the tick out of the box?


How do you know there are French speed camera locations on it? If you untick the box it will switch the UK speed cameras OFF and any others that are in the software.
I had a Tomtom which although it had Europe maps only had UK speed camera locations.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

bognormike said:


> trevd01 said:
> 
> 
> > Mods!
> ...


and the fact that there are now FOUR separate threads, all with effectively the same information (or not.....) is why I have kept away from this thread until now..........

Having spoken at length to a large number of French drivers in shops, restaurants and various other places the over-riding feeling and response is a Gallic shrug of the shoulders and a wave of indifference.....

It has been commented on here that the whole thing would be difficult to enforce, the local view is that is putting it mildly.......

The "gentleman" responsible is not regarded with a high level of esteem around here and his new bans are regarded as "irrelevant" and "an election ploy".

The police are VERY unlikely to check UK registered cars but in theory could........

but if they did the process of taking it further is not one that is reckoned to be something they would want to tackle UNLESS there has been a very clear breach which has resulted in e.g. an r.t.c.

The publishers of maps and atlases (including Michelin) have agreed to not mark speed cameras on editions published from the beginning of 2012 on - i.e. the 2013 editions.....

They will continue to mark "danger areas" on their maps, and GPS is also allowed to do the same - Garmin have already produced these, TomTom are "working on it" (by which a lot of locals reckon they are stalling in the expectation that it will not happen and will be cancelled later in the year).

But they cannot stop anyone owning a pre-2012 edition which has them marked on the maps and how could they prove that you were using them? :roll:

So, do not panic if your GPS still has speed camera warnings on it, you can switch them off (the speed cameras not the GPS :lol: ) locally by following the manufacturers instructions.

BUT if you stay within the speed limits your chance of being targeted by the police are very, very slight. So drive sensibly within the speed limits - simples......



RayC said:


> How do you know there are French speed camera locations on it? If you untick the box it will switch the UK speed cameras OFF and any others that are in the software.
> I had a Tomtom which although it had Europe maps only had UK speed camera locations.


if you were asked to prove it and could show that speed cameras were switched "off" then you are clear.....

the problem that is causing concern is the "Live" links which can show new speed camera locations, this is one thing that TT and Garmin are "looking at".

It is perfectly legal to have speed cameras for the UK, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Andorra, Italy, Monaco etc switched on and active. If you switch speed cameras off before entering French roads you are legal.

Dave


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

" .... TomTom are "working on it" .."

I updated my TomTom last week and it said it would remove all French speed camera warnings so they have gone along with it.
Gary


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

According to 2 different French motoring lawyers' websites* I've visited recently, their opinion is along the lines that the French cops have no legal right to examine the satnav in your vehicle unless you authorise them to do so, making this new law difficult to enforce. So, unless your satnav is displaying a speed camera alert when you are stopped, you could avoid a potential 1,500 Euro fine and confiscation of the device by refusing to give permission to examine it.

So the message seems to be - don't give them permission. The trouble is, if you don't understand a question put to you in French by the cops you could inadvertently give them permission by saying "yes", "oui" or nodding.

"_Je ne vous autorise pas_" is a phrase worth remembering.

And by the way, in France you commit the offence of using a handheld mobile phone while driving merely by holding it in your hand. If you use your smartphone as a satnav ... you could be committing 2 driving offences at the same time!

In my experience the French Gendarmes are just as likely to stop a visitor from the UK as any French motorist (some people think they sometimes target foreign vehicles rather than local ones) so don't assume it won't happen to you.

SD

[*Maitre de Caumont, and Cabinet Benezra]


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I love the French and France but why do they seem intent on wasting time and money creating laws that are pointless and wont be enforced? There is no way they can detect if your have a particular POI enabled, I cant imagine if they stop you they would be bothered to try and figure out how a UK sat nav works and even if they could you have to give them permission! Bonkers.

Its the same with that new breathlyser cadget we apparently now have to carry. It just doesnt make sense. Havent they got anything better to do?

Why dont they spend a little bit of time and money removing the stupid old law regarding priority from the right which isnt really used anymore but still causes concern for a lot of us?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

barryd said:


> I love the French and France but why do they seem intent on wasting time and money creating laws that are pointless and wont be enforced?


I agree with a lot you say but we in the UK are in no position to lecture the French on their laws. Our road traffic enforcement over the last decade has been targetted at money making enterprises. In the early days of Camera Partnerships cameras were used to build empires and feather nests leading to the Government having to rein them in by making the fines go to the treasury and for the Partnerships to be funded from the general road safety grant. They have now got round that by widening the criteria for attendance at Driver awareness Courses and retaining the profit.
All traffic regulation in the UK has money as its driving force whether it be speed, parking, yellow box or bus lane enforcement.

Personally I will take my chances with the French Police any day over the zealots in Dorset with their No Excuse campaign.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> Why dont they spend a little bit of time and money removing the stupid old law regarding priority from the right which isnt really used anymore but still causes concern for a lot of us?


because while it may seem pointless to those living in the UK it actually gives a very clear indication of priority at unmarked junctions on small country roads.

It is rarely enabled on major roads but for minor ones it probably prevents numerous crunches that occur frequently in the UK where someone pulls out of a side road without being able to see clearly......

The phrase "if you don't like the heat........." might be apt....

I wonder why they haven't removed many of the "stupid old laws" that exist in the UK?

Answer because they cause no problem and there are times when they might be useful........

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Fair points Dave and Ray.

There are probably just as many daft laws here.

I have to say on the few occasions we have been stopped by the Gendarmes (always on the bike) I have found them very fair and pleasant but I gather this isnt always the case. Again, same here I suppose.


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

*Sat Nav*



SpeedyDux said:


> According to 2 different French motoring lawyers' websites* I've visited recently, their opinion is along the lines that the French cops have no legal right to examine the satnav in your vehicle unless you authorise them to do so, making this new law difficult to enforce. So, unless your satnav is displaying a speed camera alert when you are stopped, you could avoid a potential 1,500 Euro fine and confiscation of the device by refusing to give permission to examine it.
> 
> So the message seems to be - don't give them permission. The trouble is, if you don't understand a question put to you in French by the cops you could inadvertently give them permission by saying "yes", "oui" or nodding.
> 
> ...


Interesting point. However people shoud be aware that under the criminal law UK police have what is called a "general right of siezure" under which they may sieze anything which is, or appears to be, evidence of an offence they are investigating. That would include a mobile phone and of course a sat nav in appropriate circumstances.

I rather suspect, although I don't know, that the French police have a similar power and I would be supprised if they did not. I don't think I will try to test it.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

They have to have reason to believe an offense is being committed, I think. Just seeing a sat nav would hardly satisfy that need?

Although regardless I would not want to try discussing it at the roadside in an unfamiliar language, Alan.


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## mr2 (Feb 26, 2009)

greygit said:


> " .... TomTom are "working on it" .."
> 
> I updated my TomTom last week and it said it would remove all French speed camera warnings so they have gone along with it.
> Gary


I have also updated my TomTom as above which said it would remove warnings but also checked the database and found them apparently still there so removed all references to speed cameras France.

Barry


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## iandsm (May 18, 2007)

*Tomtom*



mr2 said:


> greygit said:
> 
> 
> > " .... TomTom are "working on it" .."
> ...


Updated my 1005 yesterday and all French cameras are gone.


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