# Rear main oil seal leak - how serious?



## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Our 2002 320 2.8HDi Peugeot Boxer based Autosleeper has developed an oil leak. When it was serviced last July by our usual Peugeot dealer there was an advisory note on the technician's report: "very slight oil leak from rear main oil seal, I've cleaned area, requires customer to monitor". 

Mrs B has now noticed (and complained severely about :? ) some oil stains where the van is parked on the drive. I checked the level and it was only slightly below minimum, I have bought the recommended oil and topped it up just to the max line.
(I also bought some oil & tar remover which I hope will work on the brick pavoir drive or my life won't be worth living :roll: )

The mileage is around 61,600; we have done around 4,500 since last July. I spoke to the service dept today to see whether they thought it needed to come in now, bearing in mind we are off to France for a few weeks in May/June, or could it wait until the next service/MOT this July. They seemed fairly happy that it would be OK and suggested I just make sure to carry spare oil with me.

I am au fait with electrics/electronics and gas, but not anything relating to engine mechanics, so for those of you fellow MHFers who are, I have two questions:

Is it likely simply to gradually leak a bit more with no potential for serious consequences, assuming I regularly check and top up the oil, or is this symptomatic of possible catastrophic failure?

How big (and hence expensive!) a job is changing the rear main oil seal (the dealer mentioned at least two days and requiring the gear box to be removed). 8O


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## halli2 (Dec 10, 2012)

It will last a long time just getting slowly worse. Try not topping the oil right up to the maximum it might help.

It's going to cost to replace, gearbox out etc. and whilst it's out it might be worth replacing the clutch as well.

G


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

It will only get worse and you will get oil contaminating the clutch which if your going to have the seal done, get the clutch done also. wet the oil stain and sprinkle wash powder on it and leave it a couple of days.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Dealer is being honest with you, it is a big job time wise, and time is expensive I am afraid. I would expect that the engine will have to come out rather than the gearbox! (is yours front or rear wheel drive??)

The rear main bearing seal is located around the crankshaft (thats the bit the flywheel and clutch bolt onto) on most engines(but not all) the crankshaft has to be removed in order to replace the oil seal. If you do have it done replace the clutch whilst its all in bits !!!

Nothing is going to break! the worst that can happen is that the leak gets to the point where it pours a lot of oil out and swamps the clutch and causes problems but by the sounds of it you are a loooong way from that as the leak seems minimal at the moment.

If it was me I would enjoy my next planned trip away, take some spare oil and check regularly. DONT overfill though.

One thing is certain, it will NOT get better on its own.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Thanks for the swift responses. In answer to Mrplodd, it's front wheel drive. Noted the comments about the clutch replacement, thanks for the tip. Reassuring that we can go ahead and enjoy our trip, may have to use some aires instead of fancy campsites for a change to save the pennies for what sounds like an expensive job.

This is the down side of decades of driving company vehicles and not worrying about doing your own maintenance and repairs. 

I did manage to source and replace three rubber exhaust support rings today, including a fairly unusual one as per the picture attached. I noticed they were perished whilst checking out where the oil was coming from (so I could put something down to protect the drive, as required by Mrs B :roll: ).

So I did get my hands dirty, but that's probably about my limit as far as the mechanical side goes!!


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## nordasen (Jun 25, 2012)

Maybe some oil additive similar to what´s in this video can solve your problem temporarily until you can replace the seal. Check with a UK based dealer for car spares, such as Mick´s Garage or similar near you.






http://www.micksgarage.com/?utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=BUKS_MicksGarageUK


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Roger,

Have you asked your garage what grade of oil they use at service time?

Yours will probably be a semi synthetic 10W/40 and they may use a 5W/30 or 5W/40 fully synthetic.

It can weep past the seals if the wrong grade.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

nordasen said:


> Maybe some oil additive similar to what´s in this video can solve your problem temporarily until you can replace the seal. Check with a UK based dealer for car spares, such as Mick´s Garage or similar near you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funnily enough, when writing my original post I was thinking of asking of there was anything for engine oil leaks similar to the RadWeld which I found in my garage, which is used to stop radiator leaks (did we not previously recommend adding a raw egg to the radiator if it leaked!!). But I didn't like to ask this as I though it might show my mechanical ignorance, which I have already admitted to anyway. :wink:

So if anyone has any comments or actual experience of using this stuff, good or bad, please let me know.


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Forte seal conditioner dont know where you will get it they used to franchise it out to guys who used to go round all the garages it does work it softens the seals, the gearbox will have to come out not the engine, clutch and flywheel off then replace the seal.Edit, i,ve just googled Forte and its available but to the trade only, do you know any one in the trade to get you some?


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

747 said:


> Roger,
> 
> Have you asked your garage what grade of oil they use at service time?
> 
> ...


Hi, Cabby

My last service invoice just shows it as LL3 TOTAL SYNTH. 
I checked the handbook and the recommendations for diesel engines were Total Quartz Diesel 7000 10W40, Quartz 9000 5W40 or Esso Ultra Diesel 10W40, Ultra 5W30 or Ultron Diesel 5W50. It also mentions quality standard ACEA B3 & API CF/CD

The auto factors I went to for the exhaust mountings today only had Castrol (various types which mentioned nearly every vehicle make except Peugeot!), or Carlube which I assume is an oem brand. I got this in Triple R Semi-Synthetic 10W40 which the selection chart showed as suitable and which is labelled ACEA B3, B4 (diesel Engines) and API CF (diesel engines) so should be OK.

I will try and track down one of the recommended Total or Esso when I can, but bearing in mind our low mileage and annual service intervals, we even exceed the "Arduous Service" (which allows lower grade oils) never mind the Standard Service schedule, so shouldn't be a problem.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

I'd check the crankcase breather system is functioning correctly. Any excess pressure in the crankcase will be driving the oil through the seal.

The rear oil seal on some engines can be changed in situ. It's a job for someone who's familiar with the engine & the patience to get the seal out without damaging anything else. As already advised, it would also be the right time to clutch & release bearing. The spigot bearing may be worth a look too.

Good luck.

D.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

sideways said:


> Forte seal conditioner dont know where you will get it they used to franchise it out to guys who used to go round all the garages it does work it softens the seals, the gearbox will have to come out not the engine, clutch and flywheel off then replace the seal.Edit, i,ve just googled Forte and its available but to the trade only, do you know any one in the trade to get you some?


Thanks for that, managed to find a couple of on-line non-trade suppliers and have ordered from here:

http://www.autokits.co.uk/forte-seal-conditioner-p-45.html

Fingers crossed that that might help keep oil off the drive and MrsB off my back for a couple of months. :roll:

I did explain to her that the best way to keep the drive clean was for us to be off in the 'van all the time. As long as we avoid Caravan Club sites, who might get a bit sniffy about nasty, dirty oil leaks on their hard standings, we should be alright . . . 8)


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

davesport said:


> I'd check the crankcase breather system is functioning correctly. Any excess pressure in the crankcase will be driving the oil through the seal.


Thanks for the tip. So would I if I knew how or where to check a crankcase breather system 



davesport said:


> The rear oil seal on some engines can be changed in situ. It's a job for someone who's familiar with the engine & the patience to get the seal out without damaging anything else. As already advised, it would also be the right time to clutch & release bearing. The spigot bearing may be worth a look too.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> D.


Cheers, Dave. You must have glossed over the bit where I owned up to my almost total lack of mechanical know-how, so most of this might as well be in Double Vulcan! :? However I will take notes of these suggestions and discuss with my garage when I finally book it in. They are a Peugeot dealer who regularly work on Boxers so hopefully will be familiar with it. Presumably, that's what I'm paying their not-very-cheap bills for! 

Thanks again for the tips, they are appreciated even if not fully understood. :wink:


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

As usual some dodgy and ill informed answers!
The leak will get worse eventually, it is EXTREMELY unlikely to swamp the clutch with oil as the seal and leak are on the other side of the flywheel to the clutch and centrifugal force will throw the oil radially off of the flywheel thereby effectively away from the clutch.
The gearbox will have to be removed (or the engine unit complete should the repairer prefer that route (unlikely)) the seal on this engine is bonded in to the housing and comes complete.
There is no spigot bearing as such in this installation.
If it were the gearbox input shaft seal that was leaking that could contaminate the clutch.
If or when you do have the job done it would be advisable to replace the complete clutch assembly.


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*oil leak*

Hi from rain/gales spain i have had a leak same has this for the last 3 years i do my owne servicing and use millers oil mine is a 2.8 fieat auto so will be a big job, when it goes to be mot they inspect it and it does not seem to be getting any worse i do cheke the oil more often but up to press have never had to top up , am starting to go rusty with all the rain where having kenny


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> As usual some dodgy and ill informed answers!


Sorry, that could have been me.

When I said in situ I meant without having to remove the crank from the engine. IE, remove the gearbox, clutch & flywheel. Then get the seal out. I've done this before on a Rover K series. I thought it would have been obvious that the engine's rear oil seal can't be accessed whilst the gearbox is still bolted to the prime mover :!:

Apologies if I've caused any confusion here !

D.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Not what you said D, some of the earlier stuff, although I can't think of an application where the crank would have to come out of the block to change the seal.

Kenny's reply seems to reinforce the suggestion that you can live with the problem if needs be, perhaps Roger you should get a drip tray for under the van when on the drive.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

eurajohn said:


> Not what you said D, some of the earlier stuff, although I can't think of an application where the crank would have to come out of the block to change the seal.
> 
> Kenny's reply seems to reinforce the suggestion that you can live with the problem if needs be, perhaps Roger you should get a drip tray for under the van when on the drive.


I've been putting cardboard underneath, never thought of a drip tray which would be a much better idea as it'll let me see how fast it's leaking. Got just the thing in the greenhouse . . . thanks! :wink:


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

eurajohn said:


> Not what you said D, some of the earlier stuff, although I can't think of an application where the crank would have to come out of the block to change the seal.
> 
> Kenny's reply seems to reinforce the suggestion that you can live with the problem if needs be, perhaps Roger you should get a drip tray for under the van when on the drive.


When I had my classic car (oil leaks were the norm) I bought a long seed tray from a garden centre for a few pounds to use as a drip tray. The advantage is that they're so big you don't have to concern yourself with aligining the drip tray to the leak.

P.S. I'm not sure if it was a seed tray or a tray for a growbag, but you probably know the kind of thing I mean - about 15" wide, 30" long and 2" deep.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Spiritofherald said:


> When I had my classic car (oil leaks were the norm) I bought a long seed tray from a garden centre for a few pounds to use as a drip tray. The advantage is that they're so big you don't have to concern yourself with aligining the drip tray to the leak.
> 
> P.S. I'm not sure if it was a seed tray or a tray for a growbag, but you probably know the kind of thing I mean - about 15" wide, 30" long and 2" deep.


That's just the sort of thing I was thinking of - I've got several of those black propagator gravel trays with removable clear covers, they take two standard seed trays so big enough and quite deep.

Should be just the job & keep MrsB happy!


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

UPDATE

'Van has gone in for MOT & service today - seems that what I assumed to be a worsening leak from the rear oil seal is actually coming from a corroded sump. So replacing the sump won't be quite as long-winded and expensive as getting to and replacing the rear seal. 

BUT

the bad news is that the MOT has failed because of seriously corroded front and rear brake pipes which apparently are no longer available as a Peugeot spare part for my 2002 Boxer 1. 
My dealer can buy the materials and fabricate them but this takes about 8 hours so the labour charge is  :signeek: well, rather a lot.

Still, I suppose we should be grateful that this has been identified. Dealing with brake pipes failing whilst whizzing along the motorway probably wouldn't be a lot of fun. :?


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

rogerblack said:


> UPDATE
> 
> 'Van has gone in for MOT & service today - seems that what I assumed to be a worsening leak from the rear oil seal is actually coming from a corroded sump. So replacing the sump won't be quite as long-winded and expensive as getting to and replacing the rear seal.
> 
> ...


8 hours for brake pipes Roger. 8O Things must have changed since I did my own years ago.

Had a new sump on my 2.8 JTD last January. I bought it myself from Euro Car Parts and had it fitted. I can dig out the cost but it was not that bad considering it meant an oil and filter change plus fuel filter at the same time.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

As 747 says Roger 8 hours for making and fitting a few brake pipes seems far too long unless they are quite extraordinary in some way.

I would get another price if I were you, Alan.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

maybe they are quoting for the whole job and the mot and service. :wink: 
I am still trying to work out why Roger said Hi cabby, as this is the first post I have made on this thread. :? :? 

cabby

ps. Hi Roger. :lol:


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

cabby said:


> . . . I am still trying to work out why Roger said Hi cabby, as this is the first post I have made on this thread. :? :?
> cabby
> ps. Hi Roger. :lol:


Early onset dementia? Or maybe I'd been on the malt . . .

Hi again, cabby! :wink:

Thanks for the responses. It did seem a lot to me but I was assured by the Peugeot dealer who always handles our 'van that they have had to do the same brake hose fabrication job on a couple of other Boxers of similar age so they know exactly what's involved. They can get the parts and do the work tomorrow, once done they can organise the MOT retest first thing Thursday and since that was the only fail item it should then pass OK. They will be changing the oil and filter anyway as part of the service so might as well get them to fit the replacement sump while they're at it.

There's no question of doing it myself as you may gather from my previous posts in this thread!
Yes, I probably could take it away from them and attempt to find someone else I have no experience of or faith in locally, who possibly could do it cheaper but I need it finished by Friday as we set off for Scotland at the weekend until September.

I will however take it up with Peugeot customer service since it's hard to believe parts are not kept available longer for a popular vehicle such as the Boxer (Mk1).

On a more pragmatic point, is it usual for brake pipes and/or sumps to corrode within 11 years or so? If so, is there anything that can be done to minimise this for future, e.g underseal/waxoyl type treatment or similar?


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

747 said:


> 8 hours for brake pipes Roger. 8O Things must have changed since I did my own years ago. . . . .


Hi

was it just a question of buying them as made up parts and fitting them on or did you have to fabricate the pipes yourself from scratch?

This is what apparently takes much of the time they've quoted . . .

:?:


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I just used to buy a roll of pipe and a bag of fittings Roger. I don't know if there is a different method of construction these days but a few simple hand tools did the job.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

I always made my own solid pipes from a roll of kunifer 
The first use of the flaring tool paid for itself and I still have it over 30yrs later.


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Shame you gents are in bonny Gateshead and Leeds up North, otherwise I might have tried to persuade you to come and do yer stuff. There'd be more than a slap up meal and a few bottles of the good stuff for what my dealer's charging me!

Besides, I've got my hands more than dirty enough changing a wheel and cleaning the chain on my Muddy Fox today. 
Scrabbling around under a Pollensa is just not for me
- I don't think my belly would fit anyway.  :lol:


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