# Propane or Butane?



## dora (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi

Still planning our New Year trip to Spain (10am 30th December), anyone had thought we'd never been to Spain before! ( we have many, many times), but not at this time of year, well not driving anyway. I have read and understand propane is the gas of choice due to possible low temperatures. It seems to be beginning to be a bit of a pain to swap our two gas bottles and the regulators - does everyone use propane when travelling through France this time of year? I'd appreciate advice from those experienced at travelling Christmas time. Also, as we will be sticking to the main roads we won't need snow chains - will we?

Thanks for any advice.


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Hi Dora!

I think you'll find that a clear majority of motorhomers use Propane ALL THE TIME!

A similar question was asked only last Tuesday by Snuff. Try this link:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-56440-days0-orderasc-0.html

I have had Butane fail on me during a late-April Easter BBQ!  From that day forth, I switched to Propane. 

When you switch, you need to be aware that regulators MAY need updating.

What ever you decide, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

We are fighting the gas bottle war in Marbella at the moment!
One thing to be aware of (if you aren't) is that Spanish propane comes in blue bottles and Butane comes in Red (or silver if you get the expensive Aluminium ones). They are also inclined to offer you a mixture, so be careful what you buy.
We have found that you can get empty Spanish bottles from car boot sales for around 9 Euros. A Spanish regulator is best bought new (Leroy Merlin sell them for about 6 Euros)
13Kg replacement is currently less than 14 Euros.
Patrick


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi 
We always use propane on our trips through France / spain. 
It has been very cold this last week even in benidorm with early morning FROST and our butane packed up for a couple of hours in our spanish bottles on sunday morning.

steve & ann. ------------- teensvan.


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## dora (Jan 23, 2008)

*Propane or Butane!*

Thanks so much for quick responses. Propane it is. Interested to see some of you use it all the time - wondering why we started with Butane!

Thank you all

Merry Christmas


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Nobody seems to have mentioned that Calor dealers will swap your bottles for free.size or type.but you will have to check which regulator you need and buy new.

cabby


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Propane all year round - that's the way

To answer your question of why we used to use Butane I think maybe that a few years ago there weren't many sites open in winter, certainly not in this country and so the problems of butane not working were few and far between. However now that many of us use our caravans and Motorhomes all year round we have found that Butane isn't so good in cold weather.

Just a thought though - if you are changing your bottles then why not consider changing to Gaslow (LPG) as in France, here in UK and many other countries in Europe you can fill up at most garages without humping the bottles around and at much cheaper prices. Not so good in Spain though. I understand that LPG filling stations are few and far between.


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## majo (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi
If I install a gaslow system, and subsequently fill up with LPG here in the UK and say Spain, France and Portugal, will I be getting Propane or Butane, or am I missing something.
Thanks in advance


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Autogas in UK, GPL in €U is mainly propane with some butane.
It is produced and sold primarily for automative use.

The percentage mix tends to vary according to country and season.

LPG (liquid petroleum gas, GPL is equiv wording in French) is a generic term for various gases of which butane and propane are the most common.
It is difficult (or expensive!) to produce pure LPG of one specific gas so they are all a mixture to a certain extent.

I am not an expert, this info has been gleaned from numerous posts on here plus A level Chem and a couple of stints on specialised tankers carting huge amounts of the stuff across the oceans of the world!


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## 97201 (Jan 7, 2006)

Patrick_Phillips said:


> We are fighting the gas bottle war in Marbella at the moment!
> One thing to be aware of (if you aren't) is that Spanish propane comes in blue bottles and Butane comes in Red (or silver if you get the expensive Aluminium ones). They are also inclined to offer you a mixture, so be careful what you buy.
> We have found that you can get empty Spanish bottles from car boot sales for around 9 Euros. A Spanish regulator is best bought new (Leroy Merlin sell them for about 6 Euros)
> 13Kg replacement is currently less than 14 Euros.
> Patrick


Surely it's the other way round. My Propano comes in red/ orange and butano in grey/blue. Also in Alicante region it is nigh impossible to get a spare propane bottle at the mo' from a market or boot sale due to the cold snap we are experiencing.

Ian


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Majo,

Many of us have used Propane in extremely cold weather, in my case -18 in Chamonix this year, without any problem. Yes I have heard that some places use a mixture of Propane and a little Butane but it does not appear to affect the operation. There are major advantages of using Gaslow. You can fill up at 1000's of garages throughout Europe simply by filling up just like you do with your Motorhome or car. The cost of LPG is much cheaper per litr than buying an exchange bottle. You can top up a Gaslow bottle whereas you would have to exchange it in UK - even if it was half full. A replacement 11kg bottle can cost anything up to £30 whereas 11kg of LPG can cost from as little as £10.

I don't know how long you intend being in Spain but as I mentioned Spain is not the best place for getting LPG as the places that sell it are few and far between, however if you have two Gaslow bottles and you top up just at the boarder then you should have around 6 weeks supply (maybe more if you use EHU) before needing to refill.


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## dora (Jan 23, 2008)

*Propane*

Hi there,

Thank you all for your resonses, went to get our propane to be told there is a national shortage of propane bottles!, luckily we had one in the garden for the patio heater, so we could swap that for a full one, but can't get a second one. Has any one else come up against this problem?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: Propane*



dora said:


> Hi there,
> . . . went to get our propane to be told there is a national shortage of propane bottles! . . . . Has any one else come up against this problem?


Hadn't heard of it Dora.

Try another retailer - it sounds to me more like, "_Sorry, we forgot to re-order but don't want to admit it_." :roll: 8O

I was in our local ironmongers last week, and propane bottles of all sizes were stacked high in their compound.

Didn't see any of the lightweight ones though. Maybe they are still not very plentiful. :? Are these the ones your retailer was referring to perhaps? :?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes, in the case of gas bottle stocks, I have learned that "it's someone else's fault" invariably means a lazy, inefficient or incompetent business/ staff.

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

majo said:


> Hi
> If I install a gaslow system, and subsequently fill up with LPG here in the UK and say Spain, France and Portugal, will I be getting Propane or Butane, or am I missing something.
> Thanks in advance


With regards to the differing propane/butane ratio on the continent I have an (unverified) list which will give you a rough idea....

_" A few examples of the ratio propane to butane (averages) in Europe, you may want to remember when filling-up: 
Austria 50/50 
Belgium 50/50 
Denmark 50/50 
France 35/65 
Italy 25/75 
Netherlands 50/50 
Spain 30/70 
UK 100/0 
Germany 90/10 " _

In winter months, there is a possibility that in the colder regions of some countries they might increase the propane element but it would always be adviseable to make sure you have full bottles before leaving UK.

Its worth noting that the high percentage of butane will usually only become an issue for long stayers in cold regions as the unused butane element gradually increases in the bottle after each refill.

pete


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

Peejay,

Can you confirm the ratio spec you posted. Have the Butane/Propane been transposed on a couple or is France 35% Butane 65% Propane where as UK would be 100% Butane/0% Propane

Cheers

Alan


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Alan,

As I read it they are all 'Propane/Butane' which will make France 35%propane - 65%butane.

Remember, It is from an *unverified* source (ie, It was posted on another forum) :wink:

Pete


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## Cherekee (May 1, 2005)

So it would seem, if the chart is correct, that no wonder Gaslow systems are having a problem in the Alps as the majority of the liquid is Butane at Autogas stations.

I understood that cars run on Propane mainly. 

Anyway I have bought a French bottle adaptor and hose just in case my Gaslow snuffs it in the cold.

Alan


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Once again this is unconfirmed but I've read a few times that in some countries the propane element can be increased in the colder regions (Alps etc) in winter.

I can confirm that the German ratio was thereabouts correct a few years ago as we filled up our bottles a couple of times in southern Germany and the amount of propane we got in decreased by about 10% on each subsequent fill.

It would be great if someone could post a reliable link to these figures, haven't seen one yet though.

Pete


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