# Lowest mileage failed Ducato Gearbox?



## GGrigg (May 1, 2005)

I have an S (1998?) Reg 2.8 idTD Fiat Ducato based with ONLY 26,800 on the clock. 

It jumped out of 5th under power on the way back form the Lakes on Friday and would not stay in unless encouraged for the rest trip (40 mile). 

I understand there is an issue with these gearboxes but can anyone offer any info. regarding repair. 

I understand 5th is an external cluster that can be accessed outside the main box and its under engineered for the job along with poor lubrication, being external to the main box. 

Questions are: 

Are current replacement parts the same as the originals? 
If so I needed to budget Fiat gearbox rebuilds at the same time as tyre replacments! 

Any mods to improve lubrication? 
One suggested over filling the box a little? 

Another site has suggested water ingress to the box through the selector bushes, as rain water drain fills the casting webs between which the selector enters the box. It recommended filling webs with silicone? 

There is a box on Ebay from a Ductao 2.5 diesel. It this likely to fit?

Any help, advice, encouragment, sympathy or just plain donations gratefully received! 

Thanks 
Garry
South Mancheter


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

GGrigg said:


> . . . or just plain donations gratefully received!
> 
> Thanks
> Garry
> South Mancheter


Hi Garry

I was going to say "Welcome to the club" but I see you joined before I did! 8O

If you donate your tenner you will have access to the "Search" facility and will find quite a few references to your particular problem. :wink: :lol:

Dave


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

As Zeb says, the search facility is available for subscribers only, but I would point you to this

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-8709-sevel.html+5th+gear

I understood that it didn't affect the 2.8tdi's, but could be mistaken.

Yes the repair is quite simple by accessing the 5th gear add-on from underneath - replace cogs with new ones, all done in 3 hours or so. My man said that it's basically poorly manufactured "soft" materials that can't cope with the load. It affects MH's more than normal 'vans because they operate at near to full load for longer. 
He didn't suggest any extra oil would help. just don't drive it under strain (ie don't change up too early, and don't let it labour in 5th).
Get it checked out by a gearbox speciailst.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

As to your subject, no. It was a widespread fault in your model van.

Also try to avoid 5th until the engine is up to temperature.

Dave


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## GGrigg (May 1, 2005)

*Progres ...???*

One ramp for comfort, full left lock, 5 bolts under the wheel arch and the cover is off.

One syncro tooth recovered from the pan.

Now need to get the cogs syncro hub and selector off and count missing syncro teeth and account for them!

Photographing as I go for other adventurous types.

Garry


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## GGrigg (May 1, 2005)

*Progess.. Bits off and ordered. Initial damage assessment.*

I have one small tooth sitting in the bottom of the cover pan! 
I WAS worried about how many others were wayward? 
A few metal flakes too.

I have released the tab washer on the main cluster and the selector fork bolt.

The syncro ring and the selector fork were a good tight fit onto the splined shaft and needed "encouragement" to come free. The assembly came off as a single unit...more later on that part!

Between the syncro assembly and the main gear itself is ring with three lugs to retain the syncro ring ball locators, 3 off. These are located on spring loaded plungers and DO fire everywhere when the synco ring is pressed over centre once off!

Not a problem as I still have all three plungers springs and balls despite 4 escape attempts.

I have been into Fiat and ordered new bits (before removing). 
I have seen the exploded parts diag and will try and get a copy with the numbers etc.. The two mated gears are about £220 and the syncro hub assembly is about £190.

I only hope that is is clamped together in some way to facilitate installation?

Close examination of the removed parts revealed: 
The main gear has a secondary sub set of teeth sweated onto a shoulder against the main helicals. These are short teeth that engage the syncro ring. These are only small teeth unlike the main helical constant mesh set but they carry ALL OF THE LOAD just the same, with about 4mm contact face! The syncro ring looks rereversibleut you wouldn't would you? The gear is shot but only due to this small mesh zone. the main helicals are fine.

So I hear you asking how many teeth missing? 
ONLY ONE and thats the one I have from the bobottomf the pan!

I will flush the box with solvent through the holes and all should be as before? I plan to fix a magnet to the plug too just in case.

I plan to write a proper report with pictures so if you want to be informed when its done let me have your email address and Ill copy you in when it goes to Fiat for their comments!

.... Just for info ... I work for a large chemical company that manufactures lubricant additives and my remit includes engineering failure analysis, memetallurgy microscopy etc.!

p.s. 
I saw in another post asking for an email address for Fiat. Large companies tend to use webmail pages so that, not only do you not have a record of what's sent and when but you can not copy your entire address book in either!

Garry


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## Rio (Oct 17, 2007)

*ducato 5th gear*

hi garry the driver gear with the teeth missing is usually all thats wrong, the outer synchro hub usually comes off in one piece and is rarely damaged, a new driver gear and a circlip is often all you need, i have got a pair of gears , which are 53x 31 high ratio,as you have found its less than an hours work, charlie,


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