# The Secret Life of Dogs



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Horizon programme last night. Anyone watch it? If so what did you think?

I thought is was excellent. I had hoped they would have explored the fact that dogs can detect an epileptic siezure in their owner before the owner knows about it. They are also being used to detect bladder cancer in urine samples.

Hopefully it will be food for thought to all those who still believe the old dominance theory.

Watch it on the BBC iplayer if you missed it.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Brilliant.

The Russian research on Silver Foxes was particularly interesting.

It should re-open the "Nature - Nurture" debate w.r.t. human behaviour . . . . but it won't of course since the answers will be uncomfortable and non-PC. :roll:

I wonder how many other dogs have the potential to be as clever as that German Collie in fetching a specified object, *if* they were given the same opportunity?

That dog had obviously had a huge amount of training to do that particular "trick", and without taking anything from its achievements I can't help thinking it may not be as unique as the programme made out.

That example of "intelligent" behaviour needs to compare many other dogs which have had the same training and experience in performing the same trick before any individual dog can be declared a genius. It may be that lots of dogs can perform quite well, but I can't imagine most are put in that situation and given the opportunity to display their abilities.

_(It's a bit like my Grandfather's ability on a computer. He might have been brilliant, but computers hadn't been invented yet so he was unable to demonstrate his (potential) skills.)_

What an excellent programme though, and very thought provoking - whether one likes dogs or not!

If only a few more programmes could be presented like that, instead of being "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator!!!

Dave


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## TinaGlenn (Jul 7, 2006)

We watched it and both of our crazy dogs did too. It only reinforced what we have always known, although I would have loved to see what the researchers made of our Skye :lol: 

The Russian experiment with the Silver foxes was very interesting, maybe more so than some of the dog stuff. They were very cute.

Tina


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## captmike (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, I was fascinated by it too. Particularly as it confirmed scientifically what we dog lovers have always known.....that dogs understand more than you might think and that we can understand what they "say". Interesting too that only after domestication did dogs develop barking as a means of communication.

But I was less convinced by the explanation of why we (humans) like dogs. What do you all think?

MIke


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Thanks for the heads-up. I didn't see it but will sometime today. Maybe even on HD later:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mgxf

Dave


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I agree it was one of the first non-dumbed down horizons that I have seen. Normally in an hour long prog you get 5mins of science. Perhaps because it was one of the more touchy-feely sciences.


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

We thought it was brilliant. When (early on in the programme) various dogs were seen barking & yapping our Jimmy was fascinated. He stretched out full length close to the TV & was on full alert to try & work out where the other dogs were. If only we had the camera out at the time...!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Does this answer Louis's behaviour.
When we picked him up as a rescue dog from the old owners house (taken away because of mistreatment) he came to me and let me cuddle him and he came home in my Motorhome ---no one would be able to do that today 3 years later.
I thought it was me and the way I treat him that made him bark at people and the way he is overprotective of me--he wont go for a walk with Ray because after he has done his business he digs his heels and wont go foreward and races back to me.
Did Louis know I was so ill before I found out? 
According to this programme he did.


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## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> What an excellent programme though, and very thought provoking - whether one likes dogs or not!
> 
> If only a few more programmes could be presented like that, *instead of being "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator!!!*
> Dave


Oh yes, the 'dumbing down' of British TV *don't get me started on that*. At least the BBC tried to make a program which made you think unlike those muppets on Channel 4 who were (or maybe still are) planning a progrm on 'embarissing pets' aimed at all the ignorant and voyeuristic in the viewing population.

BTW How can one *NOT* like dogs, bearing in mind they display all the attributes that we humans should have but mostly don't!!!


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## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

captmike said:


> But I was less convinced by the explanation of why we (humans) like dogs. What do you all think?
> 
> MIke


Mike, I know why I like dogs, it's because I don't like humans :lol: (Well most of them, I make exceptions for motorhome owners naturally :wink: and a very small number of others)


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Losos said:


> BTW How can one *NOT* like dogs, bearing in mind they display all the attributes that we humans should have but mostly don't!!!


My thoughts exactly,they are the most wonderful loyal intelligent companion anyone can have,they will never let you down.I am slightly ashamed to admit this but I prefer dogs to most people(except mhf members of course :lol: )and suspect that quite a few folks feel the same way but won't admit it.

When someone says they don't like dogs I become suspicious of their character and like losos above tend to think how can one not like dogs.

I watched the Horizon programme last night and found it fascinating,seems like dogs are a lot cleverer than previously thought,the collie was incredible,retrieving lots of different objects on demand and all the owners said that their dog knew what they were thinking and I concur.

Most people that we know the dogs get on well with but if one of them growls at someone then I become ill at ease as well,whether the dogs are sensing me being uncomfortable is debatable but they are normally right.

It was slightly difficult watching the programme last night because Ky would bark every time he heard a dog bark and Meg was looking behind the tv trying to find them :lol: We used to like the dog whisperer but it's almost impossible to watch now with these 2 daft mutts :lol:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Taking Dave's point about the German collie. It would be difficult to say why that dog learned as much as it did without seeing video footage of its life.

My opinion is that they started very early (I think the commentator said it was 4 months). I think the dog may have been reared in a stimulating environment during its first weeks of life. I think that the owners are very laid back (notice their body language) and kept the whole thing FUN instead of "training". We already know that Border Collies are one of the few breeds that is still bred primarily for its brains rather than its beauty.

Taking the early environment point, there is a lot of research to show that pups being handled and mildly frustrated from 5 days old causes them to make more nerve pathways as the brain develops. This shows up later in life as a dog that more easily withstands stress. The American military are leading this research (known as bio-sensor). As stress prevents learning it follows that any dog that copes easily with stress is going to learn more than one that doesn't.

The point about dogs being wolves whos development was arrested at the juvenile phase is not new. It is thought that the wolves scavenged around our settlements and the friendly puppies (as in the silver fox experiment) were selected as companion/guards/hunters. 
If only we still selected our breeding stock in the same way.


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi,

Thanks for the heads up on the programme. I have just watched it, it's very interesting.


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## patnles (Oct 26, 2006)

locovan said:


> Does this answer Louis's behaviour.
> When we picked him up as a rescue dog from the old owners house (taken away because of mistreatment) he came to me and let me cuddle him and he came home in my Motorhome ---no one would be able to do that today 3 years later.
> I thought it was me and the way I treat him that made him bark at people and the way he is overprotective of me--he wont go for a walk with Ray because after he has done his business he digs his heels and wont go foreward and races back to me.
> Did Louis know I was so ill before I found out?
> According to this programme he did.


I believe he did Mavis.
I am absolutely convinced that Elsa new Pat was ill long before he was diagnosed. He had no obvious symptoms but consultant was sure he had had his lymphoma for more than a year. Elsa had been acting very strangely for a long time, although I couldn't definitely say how long. 
The behaviour stopped around the time treatment was underway. 
Elsa also knew all her toys by name. She only had about ten at a time but her new toys always had new names and she learnt them very quickly.
I agree, Horizon was really interesting.
Lesley


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## Groper (May 17, 2007)

Recorded the programme last night. 
Will definitely watch it tonight after the comments on here. 
Our Suki, a rescue dog whom we have had for 6 months now after Chester died,was very protective almost from day 1 particularly with my wife.


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

I too watched the very interesting programme. Reminded me that our chocolate labrador started constantly coming up and nudging me when my husband died. four and a half years ago. Coco had never done this before then. He still does it at times mainly to me and sometimes other members of the family but never to anyone outside the family circle.

Our Vet told me something recently about chocolate labradors that I wasn't aware of that is that they rarely live over the age of 10-12 years. Coco is 13 in March and apart from his very arthritic hips, is still very much all there, particularly when food is around!


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Dogs*

I did not see the program, but I do think dog have extra senses. When I had my wisdom teeth out for instance, I am sure the dog knew I was not very well.

Russell


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I suppose it could have been the scream "BL00DY DOG!" along with your boot up its backside that it reacted to instead? :lol: 

Dave


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## adonisito (Nov 6, 2009)

Just tried Bramble with bone v. rope game. he knows the difference ! I will now expect the BBC to visit us with a fistful of fivers to interview my superdog.


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## patnles (Oct 26, 2006)

Invicta said:


> I too watched the very interesting programme. Reminded me that our chocolate labrador started constantly coming up and nudging me when my husband died. four and a half years ago. Coco had never done this before then. He still does it at times mainly to me and sometimes other members of the family but never to anyone outside the family circle.
> 
> Our Vet told me something recently about chocolate labradors that I wasn't aware of that is that they rarely live over the age of 10-12 years. Coco is 13 in March and apart from his very arthritic hips, is still very much all there,
> particularly when food is around!


Thats just how Elsa was, she would just sit and stare at either of us for hours and nudge occassionally. Usually she would only do that if she wanted something like her dinner or water or go out in the garden etc., we just could not find what it was she wanted, it was getting very irritating. I even mentioned it to the vet. This behaviour went on for many months. 
Lesley


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## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

We wanted to watch it but there was a film on the other side Pushka wanted to see... :wink: 

Does anyone know if it's repeated at all?


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Dabs put the link on for us

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pssgh


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

And Pushka should know better than to watch films like that 8O


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