# Parking fine from abroad



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

So you are sitting at home and a traffic fine comes in the mail from a European country that you have recently visited say for wrongly parking or entering a congestion zone without paying.

Two things you should know, first of all the DVLA cannot by law reveal your details to foreign enforcement agencies. So these foreign agencies use a British firm to approach the DVLA. One such firm is EPC (Euro Parking Collection). The DVLA give them your details they send the bill to you on behalf of say the Dutch authorities..

So why aren't they closed down for getting around the law?

Well one reason might be that UK agencies use them as well to get fines from foreign nationals who transgress here, one of EPC's biggest customers is TfL.


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## smithies (Jul 1, 2007)

*fines*

So Frank,
are you saying we shouldnt/neednt pay up ???

Jenny


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I take it you've had a fine then Frank?

We went through the congestion charge zone in Bergen several times this year and also went through a toll road before the Atlantic bridge where we couldn't find a place to pay.

Nothings come through yet....

pete


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

No you do not have to pay

The collection agency cannot enforce by seizing your goods or anything else. It can write letters. It can threaten.

If it issues small claims proceedings you have a total defence. The courts of England are forbidden from enforcing the fines or penalties or taxes of a foreign country. 

The case is Government of India v Taylor

You make imediate application to strike out as showing no good cause of action or you defend on grounds the sum sought is a foreign fine or penalty or tax which the court has no power to enforce and quote Governmenty of India v Taylor


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

it is not (yet) possible to enforce traffic fines over borders, unless there is a _bi-lateral_ agreement between the two countries involved. Such an agreement exists for instance between Germany and Austria, but I am not aware of any other.

So, good news is that say Dutch authorities have no legal means to enforce payment of a traffic fine from a say UK citizen, after he has left the country.

Bad news, however, is that _next time the same UK citizen re-enters,_ say, Netherlands, the authorities can very well demand payment from him. Said payment then will be significantly higher than the original fee.

Best Regards,
Gerhard

P.S: Especially the Dutch authorities are known for charging traffic fines even from offenders re-entering Netherlands without their car, e.g. via airplane... 8O


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

No I haven't had a fine.  I just read 'money' in the Guardian

Not sure the advice 'don't pay up' will be the answer for everyone. If you don't pay and go back to that country then you may well be on a list!

Having said that there are some foreign agencies willing to issue fines without reason but then again the BBC's Watchdog has shown there are plenty of cowboys over here as well. Some will be pleased to hear that the police of Germany Spain and France are prohibited from outsourcing their fine collections in this way.

>See here for on-line article<.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

we had a similar thing recently about a MHFer who was fined for taking his dog on a dog-free beach in Spain, and the authorities traced him through the vehicle and sent the fine on to home. As was discussed at the time, would the authorities in Spain trace him next time he was in Spain? and how would they manage that with open borders (schengen etc)?


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I thought there was now an EU agreement to enforce over the border fines with mutual access to each others vehicle databases? Perhaps that is what they would have you believe?

peedee


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

peedee said:


> I thought there was now an EU agreement to enforce over the border fines...


Not yet. That is why I wrote "(yet)" in my last posting. This EU regulation has been delayed several times. It is now planned to finalize it during September 2008, so that possibly at some time during 2009 it could come into effect.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi so does this mean that we cannot be prosecuted for a speeding offence in france?
curlyboy


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Hi so does this mean that we cannot be prosecuted for a speeding offence in france?


Don't even consider it - I understand French police are not exactly polite about extracting money there and then before your van is released.
Even if it is a camera recorded event you will not be able to return to France without paying the fine.
Why speed - you are on holiday.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

CurlyBoy said:


> Hi so does this mean that we cannot be prosecuted for a speeding offence in france?


You can.

As long as you are in France...

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

The Schengen agreement will fully come into force sometime in 2012 Europe (EEC) wide. Full data protection as we know it will be shared as it is in the UK now. I don't know whether fine enforcement will be coupled with this or not.

However, having lived in Germany and travelled extensively through the Benelux countries, there are several ways in which traffic offences are handled and this varies on local policy from town to town, country to country, area to area...you get the idea.

First option is to do what the UK do- ignore foreign registered vehicles.
Next, tow the vehicle or on the spot fine.
Next, record the fine and the next time that vehicle enters the country the driver will have to *prove* they weren't the driver. the vehicle is usually seized pending payment.

You pays your money and takes yer chance!


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Schengen has nothing to do with data protection, enforemenst of fines or motoring penalties

Of course if the foreign authority try and collect a default penalty and you do not pay next time you go back they may well intervene by making you pay

It is uinlikely that a comperhensiove system of fine enforcement and recognition of driving penalties om an EU driving licence will happen for years however it is on the cards and is policy BUT

Ireland and GB and Northern Ireland have been negotiating a bilateral agreement for years and in spite of common language and fairly similar cultural and legal systems it has proved impossible

The extension of the Comminity to 28 has made the problem insoluble

The idea is that if you get done for Drink Driving or speeding or whatever you wll have same penalty points on your licence and pointsBulgaria, France UK etc will add up to disqualification. Disqualification will be EU wide.

The problem if you get stopped for DD in a low level country why should you be dsqualified in a high level country. There are 5 levels for alcohol across the EU at present. That is just one example. Getting 28 countries to make their law on penalties speeding etc identical is not going to work, is it?

The IOM and UK did reach a receiprocal agreement about 5 years ago but it is full of anomalies. As I had always had licences in both GB and IOM to ensure I had a lcence somewhere, I just swapped my GB licence for Republic of Ireland one


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I don't see you have to harmonise rules of the road or penalties for collection of fines or imposing penalties. Surely, as now, if you intend driving in another country you should familiarise yourself with their rules. Is it not a case of one step at a time with a goal for simplicity of full harmonisation?

peedee


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