# Free



## Pahanoita

When I moved to Huttoft 25yrs ago Moggs Eye/Marsh Yard was a quiet beautiful wild life haven where the local people from Lincolnshire and many holiday makers would come to park their cars and go for a walk away from the crowds, occasionally you would see a Motor Home stay for one night 
Then some one put it on W/M etc with the magic word "FREE" suddenly we had not one but ten twenty, thirty Motor Homes not for just one night but for two to three weeks, two to three months, all summer and of course the full timers all year. The wild life has disappeared the local people and holiday makers stop coming (who wants to walk thru a caravan site) and because of the intimidation from the Motor Homers. As a local resident I have to pay my Council tax or be sent to prison I get no more for my money than the Motor Homers do rubbish pick up (all though I have to sort it) police, ambulance, roads maintained etc and as water and sewage is now privatise I have to pay for it Motor Homers get it free (that magic word again) and the local council tax payers have to pay for that too. Having seen how many councils over UK from the Lochs in Scotland, Whitby, Scarborough, Swanage shall I go on, are now putting restrictions, height restrictors etc you can hardly blame it on the "FEW " By now I think some of you must realise that I'm that Nutty old woman The Witch of Moggs Eye (quite like that name) if I'm nutty for sticking up for my principals so be it BUT I have never chuck golf balls at any one not worth the money, I have also never chuck eggs just how can I carry eggs around when I have to use walking stick (disabled) pick up my dogs crap. I do always pick my dogs crap up, with difficulty but I will not pick other peoples, including M/H, dog crap. Having had my car scratched, my tyre valves cut been called every name under the sun some I have never heard of before, threatened from being duff up (think I got that word right) to being send to my grave in not so many polite ways, I have heard and seen it all. I have been told at my age (75) and being disabled I should take it easy and not get involved but as there is so much of our beautiful countryside is being abused I think not and if a M/H does send me to my grave at least I will have got my point publicised.


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## spatz1

I doubt very mutch you re a witch, and i d get a professional opinion before you describe your self as nutty.. :lol: 

Misguided might be more appropriate, as there doesnt seem to be a law to restrict motorhomes use... Seems to me you dislike the fact you pay local costs and resent the fact motorhomers dont, but in reality we pay are local taxes too...

If you dont like holiday makers why live in an area its popular and spend your time resenting it :wink:

ps... could be worse, had you moved to san antonio years ago it was a quiet town with one hotel and a bar with the tree in the middle of the building , but now ........
And they call it progress :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Pahanoita

*FREE*

If you read my remarks I have mentioned holidays makers two or three times the ones who come in their cars to enoy the peace of the Lincolnshire coast before I retired I work in big hotel for 13 yrs so hardly against holiday makers as a whole and my remarks regarding Council Tax is for full timers many who rent their properies and the people who live all summer in their M/Hs and you pay your council tax for where live I'm afraid your remarks are typical of a lot of M/Hs (not holiday makers) and I have never called myself a nutter or a witch that was by M/Hs on this and other M/H sites


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## Ollie33

I totally agree with you madam. They are known as freeloaders and as a motorhome owner I have found that they have spoilt it for all non freeloaders.


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## EJB

I'm sure that we are all on your side but only the local Council can resolve the problem.
Exactly where are these locations....ie road etc?


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## CurlyBoy

I must agree with some of the comments by o/p but we are not all the same. We once stopped on Isle of Mull, opposite the Ulva ferry point, although there was a sign prohibiting it, but it was late at night and we only wanted to stop for the night.When walking the dogs I was appalled by the amount of rubbish left by "day trippers" all over the place,so not wanting to be associated with it I picked it up, all three carrier bags and deposited it in the bin provided.Well we spent a very peaceful night and the ferry operator greeted us warmly in the morning and as it is such a beautiful spot decided to chance our arm for a second night. As the day progressed and more and more day trippers came and went,leaving the same rubbish after their pic-nics I again walked round after the ferry had finished and put the rubbish in the bin.we again spent a very peaceful night there,but in the morning were greeted with a knock on the door and a very large,red faced lady,well I expected to be told that we should not have stopped there,so pre-empting the situation I began an apology,and was about to explain that we were leaving after breakfast,but,she very pleasantly said that we were indeed welcome to stay as long as we wished as she had watched me pick up the litter while we were there,and said it made quite a change to see some one doing so! we had not actually seen any houses within view as I would have asked if they had any objection to us stopping there overnight.
curlyboy


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## Grizzly

Good for you Madam and keep up the opposition. No legitimate motorhomer would destroy a beauty spot such as you mention and the sooner the free-loaders who spoil it for everyone are moved on, the better.

You're a brave woman to stand up to them and it grieves me you have been persecuted.

G


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## barryd

I watched the long thread on this issue and joined in on occasion. I'm sure this will grow into a much longer thread!

I'm glad you have had the courage to come on here and put your side of the story. I can only go on what you have said and what others have said but if you read the long thread regarding the use or misuse of this site there are some very good suggestions to a compromise rather than a blanket ban.

It's sad when a few bad apples spoil it for us motorhomers but it's even more sad when the resulting action is just a blanket ban and height barriers. We are just as entitled to visit these places as car drivers and some of us are holiday makers not just full timers looking for somewhere live and we have just as much money as car drivers to spend locally. Most of us on here are responsible and respect our surroundings and the places we park.

I have to say though that there is a tendancy I have observed in this country and it runs through your post where it appears people just can't stand to see someone get something for free.

I for one spend most of my time and money in mainland Europe where we are respected, welcomed and have no difficulty finding places (yes often free) provided by the locals for us to spend a night or two. And guess what? We all get on fine. There is never any trouble, we spend our money locally and get looked after. Everybody wins.


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## CliveMott

If we had as much free space as France for example then having places for a one night stop over is not unreasonable, but in our crowded island it for the most part is not realistic. I agree with you in many respects. Responsibility is allied to freedom and the freedom those motorhomers are enjoying looks to be a one way deal. Shame on them.

C.


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## Grizzly

Barry and Clive...you're both talking about places to spend _one or two nights _. Leave alone the argument that such places are available in UK ( pubs, CLs, CSs rallies etc etc) but the lady is talking about _ months_ and she is talking about significant damage being done to the environment.

Even if these people paid to camp there and even if the facilities were provided for them to do so, there would still be a change in what, by all accounts, seems to have been a quiet, peaceful place. That is not acceptable.

One night, one or two vans hidden away is one thing but this seems to be like some of the awful shanty towns you see growing up in parts of Spain and Portugal where some MHs congregate in numbers. If these people wish to live in slums then so be it but they have no right to impose on the other residents !

G


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## barryd

Yes I agree Grizzly but why the blanket ban? Why is it always the same result for us? Councils and locals just can't be bothered with us and would rather we would just go away. They are way too dim to consider the fact that the vast majority of us follow curlyboys example and go out of our way to look after places we stay unlike the day tripper who probably spends less and perhaps isn't as concious of leaving rubbish or respecting the place he is allowed to park in.

If spots like this were properly policed then people who abuse it could be quickly weeded out. Why should we all suffer?

It seems it's very easy for on person to kick up a stink and get us all banned but it's always an uphill struggle the otherway round when we campaign or lobby for places to park.


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## Ollie33

Re my last I should say that I would not class a one night stopover as a freeloader, its those who tear the backside out of it who get us the bad name etc.


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## Grizzly

barryd said:


> Yes I agree Grizzly but why the blanket ban? Why is it always the same result for us? Councils and locals just can't be bothered with us and would rather we would just go away. .


I think that councils _do _ realise that the vast majority of MHers just want a place to spend a night or two while they visit town or pass close by on a journey.

The snag is that there are some- a few only- who want to set up camp on a semi-permanent basis. It's near impossible to accommodate one group without encouraging the others. We've all read- or even experienced- the expense, wasted time and sheer nastiness that goes with trying to evict long-termers and, many of us, can sympathise with councils for wanting to avoid that scenario.
Even Dover Road P&R Canterbury is not immune from long-stayers !

Frankly what is needed is a change in the law. A council should be able to remove or cause to be removed- all who overstay their welcome, without the enormous performance that has to go on first. If this was so then I think many councils would be happier to allow one or two night stands in a dedicated parking place.

My own home town does allow overnighting in a pleasant parking area. This is part of a very-little-used HGV lorry park. The price has remained the same- £7 per night- which provides for re-surfacing, cleaning, replacing notices etc etc . For this you get a safe place next to a particularly attractive part of the Thames with a pleasant small market town close by. There are still those however who would prefer to park free in residential streets in the town.

G


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## Chausson

Hi,
The local councils in S.Wales have been having the same problem but not with M/Homes but day trippers or campers the Rangers have to spend days cleaning up after them, they leave all sorts of rubbish including their tents, some m/homers are a real pain but the majority are very aware and respect the environment and leave the area clean for the next, unfortunately we are all teated the same without getting all the facts right, I am not saying that the o/p has not got her fact right just dont treat us all the same because we are not.
Ron


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## 747

The old lady has conveniently left out a few facts in her post.

The unusable state of the public toilets.

The boy racers.

The day trippers chucking their McDonalds/KFC rubbish out of the car window.

Is she going to turn her attention to these matters now?

I DON'T THINK SO.

She is blinkered.

I have stayed there and saw no sign of aggressive m/homers. There are regulars there. Ironically for her, they have houses in the area as well AND ARE THEREFORE LOCAL RATEPAYERS. I found them to be a decent bunch of people who happen to like their motorhomes. It is very unfair for anyone who knows NOTHING about the area to jump in with the term Freeloaders. No doubt they also read the Daily Mail and want the Birch reintroduced. :roll: 

If she has been antagonised then it is because of her behaviour. Members of another forum who I know well and trust have told me about her antics AND the fact that her dogs crap all over the place.


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## Grizzly

747 said:


> .... to jump in with the term Freeloaders. No doubt they also read the Daily Mail and want the Birch reintroduced. :roll:
> 
> I


Wrong ! I read _ The Times_ and do not believe re-introduction of the birch would solve anything.

I do stand by my use of the term " freeloader". Your term for of someone who camps for long periods, without payment, in any unauthorised place would be- ?

Those "decent people who like their motorhomes" have not got the clout or, perhaps, the inclination, to ask others to clear their mess after themselves and to keep the area tidy. All credit to an elderly resident that she should become involved.

G


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## 747

Grizzly, I will repeat my comment.

You have jumped in on one side of the argument without any knowledge of the situation.

FACT No 1. It is NOT illegal to stay overnight at Moggs Eye. That is why it is so popular.

FACT No 2 New signs have JUST gone up at other nearby spots and work is ongoing to put up height barriers.

FACT No 3 I have met a number of regular m/homers when I overnighted (freeloaded as you and others call it). You have NEVER been there or met them yet you believe them to be dirty low life messy aggressive human beings. This on the say so of a first post by someone with a deep hatred of motorhomes.

As long as I am a member on MHF, I will never take note of anything you post in the future because of your attitude on this matter. It is so one sided and judgemental.

I think you would be much happier with a Caravan by the sound of your posts.


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## nicholsong

Ladies and Gentlemen!

Manners please!


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## charleyfen

Hi i Think Some People Need To get a life . and let People With Motorhomes Get on With Theres


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## Ollie33

Height restriction barriers prevent me from enjoying certain beauty spots etc. If it were not for abuse of these areas by members of the travelling community(not all of them) and some members of the MH family they would not be necessary.


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## Grizzly

747 said:


> You have NEVER been there or met them yet you believe them to be dirty low life messy aggressive human beings. This on the say so of a first post by someone with a deep hatred of motorhomes.


Did I say that ? _ dirty, low life, messy, aggressive _ ? I think not ! Please show me where. I tried to be even-handed based on my knowledge of the subject and my experience of informal camps elsewhere in the world.



> As long as I am a member on MHF, I will never take note of anything you post in the future because of your attitude on this matter. It is so one sided and judgemental.


That is indeed your right. I come on here to discuss, in a reasonably grown-up way, a topic which interests and engages me. I do have a little prior knowledge of it as I have followed posts on the topic on this forum in a previous thread and also,some time ago, in a local paper. A shame to part brass rags over something like this but I rather think you are being excessively judgemental about me !



> I think you would be much happier with a Caravan by the sound of your posts.


Now that is a low blow !

G


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## jimmyd0g

charleyfen said:


> Hi i Think Some People Need To get a life . and let People With Motorhomes Get on With Theres


With an attitude like that, it is no wonder that the op (& no doubt others, way from here) have a problem with motorhomers. What 'right' do we have to go anywhere (whether it be for one day, thirty nights, or anything in between) & spoil a location that is somebody else's home for 52 weeks a year? The irony is that many on here complaining about a loss of 'freedom' at this Lincolnshire venue would be amongst the first to complain if a group of 'travellers' (you all know to whom I'm referring) came & parked up across the road from their home. :roll:


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## Grizzly

charleyfen said:


> Hi i Think Some People Need To get a life . and let People With Motorhomes Get on With Theres


If, charleyfen, that dig was aimed at me then I suggest you've gone for the wrong person. I try, hard, to liase with local authorities and anyone else who has any clout in the matter, to get places for MHs to overnight. I don't however park, long-term, in beauty spots and despoil them. I have an excellent and fulfilled life, thank you, and aim to continue to enjoy it without depriving others of places in which to spend a peaceful time.

G


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## adonisito

The OP is exactly the reason we don't bother with the UK in the van. Regardless of the facts or otherwise and who did what when, its not worth the hassle for those of us that would rather not use a site. 

We live an hour from the New Forest, try going there in a van without a site !


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## charleyfen

No not aimed at you but i thought this was a motorhome friendly site ???


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## Grizzly

charleyfen said:


> No not aimed at you but i thought this was a motorhome friendly site ???


Thank you.

It is [a MH friendly site] , but, like so many who are passionate about their hobby, many motorhomers seem to be of the opinion that the world revolves around them. I don't believe it does and try to fit in to society as it is, without offending too many on the way. I'd prefer to try to alter things by legal means rather than by being anti-social.

G


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## spatz1

:lol: :lol: 

Until its illegal to free camp, i cant see the problem of this one faccet of the many of tourism and you ll have a hard time convincing anyone ballenced and rational motorhomers make any more mess than others, judging by the state of tourist town centres after a weekend invasion...

If locals arnt happy about a particular average mess i suggest their council is the first port of call ... being solely unhappy about the presence of motorhomes and singling them out is "motorhome ism" and should not be tollerated even if they are all white :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## PaulW2

People behaving badly is one thing. We would all agree that people should not litter etc.

But the rates argument is a particularly poor one. As a moment's reflection should make clear.

There are all manner of tax subsidies in the country. My taxes pay for other people's benefits. Including job-seekers benefit, council housing, child benefit and schools. I get nothing back for this. Are they all 'freeloaders'? Are the children at state schools all freeloaders? Why should I pay for their education? Or is the term of abuse reserved for the parents of those who receive free meals on my account? Are the unemployed by definition all 'freeloaders'? If I were to earn more than the average, by the sweat of my brow, my taxes would disproportionately support others. Is everyone who earns less than I do a comparative 'freeloader' who sponges off me?


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## 747

This thread has unjustly villified the vast majority of motorhomers who wild camp, respect others, take their own litter (and other peoples) away with them, cause no nuisance to anyone and spend money in the locality.

Some posters jump to conclusions too quickly, others like ollie moan about height barriers yet I bet he has not lifted a finger to try and change anything in his local area for the benefit of himself and his fellow motorhomers. I said on the other long thread that a crazy old woman with a bee in her bonnet but more importantly a bit of iron has put you all to shame for sitting back and doing nothing to change the status quo in this country. Well, spend a lot of money on diesel and run away to Europe. Conversely sit in regimented rows on a site in the middle of nowhere paying disproprtionate prices for wifi to keep in touch with mankind.
I said I would stop posting on these sort of threads. Talk is cheap and that is all some of you have. Do what you want to do, I am sick of the whingeing and backbiting. As long as I can wake up to the views, I am not bothered what anyone else thinks or does.


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## Penquin

I have just read through this entire thread, I have NO knowledge of the place being described so cannot and will not comment about that specific place. But some general, non-specific, comments are hopefully acceptable for inclusion.

The OP obviously has encountered a problem as she perceives it with a group of MH users. None of us were there to witness her approach or the style of response that she received, thus none of us are in a position to pass any judgement on what happened.

The area has obviously changed since she first moved there, most areas have and many people resent the changes and would like to turn the clock back - such a thing is impossible as the UK has more people making greater use of their economic power. 

IF, and it's a big IF, there is truth in what she is saying I hope that all of us would condemn such behaviour - if we want to have the ability to use our MH where we wish then we must respect the rights of others to also enjoy the things that we enjoy - the peace, tranquillity, wildlife and scenery. Such enjoyment is not compatible with a large number of ANY vehicle or user - whether it be MH, camper or car tripper.

None of us want areas to be lost for use, but such a result is inevitable if it is perceived by those in authority at a location that the use has damaged the amenity. Such belief may well come from local complaints, reports of increased waste clearance being needed, a degradation of the are or it's non-availability for others to access.

PERHAPS a maximum number of units MIGHT reduce the impact, but while people are reportedly staying for a long period that is not going to happen, be they MH or Travellers - the only difference that many observers will detect is the quality of the vehicles involved and perhaps the waste generated.

Whatever, attacking each other on here will achieve nothing, it will only build the feelings of people reading this (which may well include the OP) that her perceptions of MH users as reported is echoed on here........

It is also of course, contrary to the site rules and as a Mod I am aware that some posts could attract attention.

Please, do as has been suggested, discuss calmly and without rancour - being aggressive is certainly not going to help.

Dave


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## PaulW2

I think the terms on which the debate in the UK is waged will inevitably result in more of these places being shut down in time.

Local authorities respond to complaints. Whether the complaint is reasonable or not doesn't particularly enter into it: if enough people complain the authorities are stung into action. 

And there are always some who will complain when things change from how they were previously.

Without wanting to be unfair, the OP may be case in point.

Her argument is an interesting one because she has a range of complaints which would generate sympathy. And then one which is flourished as a trump card but which actually undermines the argument by showing her intolerance.

We see nimbyism whenever there is anything which threatens the equilibrium of a particular location: whether it is proposed rezoning, the building of a new Tesco store, or something as simple as a field adjacent to a residential area coming up for sale.

And this is resolved either within a clear legal framework (as in the case of business applications) or the outcome is the result of a simple balance of power (including the power to harass local authorities).

Therefore the motorhomers will necessarily lose: they lack the critical mass of whingeing power.

Something like an Aire system might have worked but perhaps we don't have enough motorhomers to justify this. And culturally it may not work that well in the UK anyway...


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## jedi

Just read this thread. Is the OP a genuine local resident with a grievance? Just a thought. Could it be one of those cranks who live on the web stirring up fights/discussions then sitting back and watching with a big grin on their face?

For an elderly lady she did well to post in the right section (unless a mod moved it there). Don't think I would have managed that on my first day here.

I have no knowledge of this location and would not defend motorhomers who trash an area. I do not wild camp in UK but certainly do not view those of you who do as freeloaders. 

Maybe it's Jeremy Clarkson using a pen name :lol: 

Seriously, though, if what the OP says is true then that is a shame but we all need to be tolerant to the different ways people choose to enjoy their vans - camp sites with full facilities, a bar and pool is not everybody's idea of fun. May as well have a caravan  

Have a great camping year to you all, wherever you choose to pull on your handbrake for the night.

Jed


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## rangitira

Here in Cornwall, in particular The carpark in the village at the Lizard, The beachfront at Marizion opposite St Michels Mount, and the National Trust Car park at Kynance Cove, the carpark at Mevigissey, the locals are getting cheesed of withM/Homers parking up for days on end and are asking the councils to put an end to it.
I do a bit of fishing down the lizard now and again, the public loo there is sometimes swimming in "Bluo" where cassettes have been emptied. It's the minority, thats tars us all with the same brush!


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## Ollie33

Hi 747 or is it Mystic Meg. Never bet on something you know nothing about unless of course you are Mystic Meg..

I do and will continue to do all I can to stop that horrible number of people who turn certain areas into camps. I also try to locate and arrange suitable overnight stops.

It is not my intention to offend everyone who overnights Its those who all but take up residence.


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## Ollie33

Should have added why I use the term freeloader. Whilst on a site in Spain last month I watched them leave their camps near the beach,walk on to the site ,use the indoor pool, use the toilet /shower facilites and on two occassions saw them have the cheek to empty their toilets. IT NEVER COST THEM A PENNY 

As I said in previous posts nothing against the overnighters.As for the UK i will have to retract and say that maybe freeloader was the wrong word but please don,t gather in numbers and please don,t overstay. Be reasonable and treat others as you would expect them to treat you


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## Grizzly

747 said:


> . Conversely sit in regimented rows on a site in the middle of nowhere ...
> .


But Huttoft _ is_ in the middle of no-where and, judging by the correspondence on many other forums etc about this very place, there are far more vans there every night than on either a 5 van CL, CS or pub ! What is "wild" about that ? I wonder if many of them have generators going and so the peace, which many of us welcome on most sites, is lost as well ?

I can understand people wanting to overnight in some sheltered spot well away from the crowds and all on their own but this is not what we are talking about here. Here- like parts of Spain, Portugal, France etc- the vans are crowded in and have set up their own little shanty town !

Not all of us want swimming pools, bars and restaurants or even EHU on a site but most of us don't resent paying a reasonable sum for a small private plot on a CL/ CS or minimal facilities club site.

G

Edit to add photo:

(I take it this is the place ?)


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## 747

I only stay a max of 2 nights anywhere. When I stayed at Huttoft I saw no caravans or anyone camping. I did count a dozen m/homes parked up and they were still there the next day. I did say it was not *illegal* to *park* there. Do not show me a photograph, show me a byelaw. There are no byelaws at present which makes those signs a sham. New byelaws are going to be put on the other parking areas further down the coast (6 Marshes for example). Just like the hundreds of signs put up by the Highlands and Islands Council in Scotland. They had to admit that they were unenforceable in Law.

As long as van owners do not have the wit to realise that some areas have too many vans because there are no recognised amenities around the country, then nothing will ever change.

One old woman campaigned against m/homes. How many m/homers campaigned FOR m/homes? Well the old woman won did'nt she.

The British nowadays will not protest and will blindly follow instruction. There are plenty of examples where Councils have put up signs without making byelaws. It has been estimated that over half the signs are illegally erected. Some private landowners put up signs on land that is not even theirs. Google and you could find this out.

That is my final word on this thread and any other like it. As long as you all clear off to Le Continent every summer and winter that suits me. There are more secluderd wilding spots for the rest of us.

Goodnight (and possibly goodbye from this forum)


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## 100127

747, do you not go abroad ?


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## Ollie33

More wilding spots, aye like Tescos car park etc


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## 747

Ollie33 said:


> More wilding spots, aye like Tescos car park etc


Offensive remark removed by moderators.

This is an emotive subject and so far has been an interesting debate so please try and keep it civil.


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## clayton9

Hi 747

Please don't get wound up by all these moterhomers who don't want to wild camp like us. When I wild camp it's never near anyone's house it's is allways in places that are out of the way. 

I like ur pick of bambourgh I wild there a few times a year and allways take 
My rubbish home with me and spend money in the pubs for food and drink. 

Clayton9.


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## 1302

As a camper with our caravan (years ago) a tent , our old VW camper or the newish VW motorhome we have now we would never leave any area we camped in a state less good than we arrived. Litter isnt even a prospect  I'd pick up other peoples mess upon leaving if it came to it 

We camped on a few 'wild' spots whilst in Ireland a few years back - and left them as we found them ... if not better 

I think the OP has a bug up his ass


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## peedee

Grizzly said:


> I think that councils _do _ realise that the vast majority of MHers just want a place to spend a night or two while they visit town or pass close by on a journey.
> 
> The snag is that there are some- a few only- who want to set up camp on a semi-permanent basis. It's near impossible to accommodate one group without encouraging the others. We've all read- or even experienced- the expense, wasted time and sheer nastiness that goes with trying to evict long-termers and, many of us, can sympathise with councils for wanting to avoid that scenario.
> Even Dover Road P&R Canterbury is not immune from long-stayers !
> 
> Frankly what is needed is a change in the law. A council should be able to remove or cause to be removed- all who overstay their welcome, without the enormous performance that has to go on first. If this was so then I think many councils would be happier to allow one or two night stands in a dedicated parking place.
> 
> G


Right on the button "G" and nothing will change until the law is changed. Wasn't it in this governments manifesto that they would do so? I can certainly remember threads about this and the concerns about loss of freedom by those that like to "wild" camp.

For the councils it is a problem, if they create parking places for larger vehicles it is likely to be abused without the laws in place to deal with the minority and owners of motorhomes are suffering as a result.

Look at the popularity of sites close to facilities, e.g. Rowntree Park. Of course it is not possible to have sites like this in all the tourist hot spots but if only the councils had the powers to deal with those that abuse parking provided for motorhomes, whether for daytime only or not, everyone would benefit including site owners where if night stops were not allowed we would have to go to overnight. Even toads might become a thing of the past?

peedee


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## peedee

747 said:


> Conversely sit in regimented rows on a site in the middle of nowhere paying disproprtionate prices for wifi to keep in touch with mankind.


So what is wrong with these 747?


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## Grizzly

747 said:


> That is my final word on this thread and any other like it. As long as you all clear off to Le Continent every summer and winter that suits me. There are more secluderd wilding spots for the rest of us.
> 
> Goodnight (and possibly goodbye from this forum)


Motorhome Facts is a _ forum _ A forum is, by definition, a place or medium where people can get together and discuss, freely and openly, a topic of mutual interest.

If you are determined that yours is the only view than can prevail and are not prepared to discuss it, then perhaps it is best that you do not belong to the forum.

(As to not being a wild camper myself! My family and I, between the 60s and late 80s, owned a series of tents and a VW camper and camped all over East, Central and southern Africa. This is as wild as you get under Obote, Amin and Mugabe not to mention lions and hippo.)

G


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## 747

peedee said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conversely sit in regimented rows on a site in the middle of nowhere paying disproprtionate prices for wifi to keep in touch with mankind.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is wrong with these 747?
Click to expand...

85 nights away in 2011

28 nights wilding

57 nights on sites.

For Gods sake get a life and stop being anal. If you keep on stalking me I will have to get an injunction.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## 747

Grizzly said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is my final word on this thread and any other like it. As long as you all clear off to Le Continent every summer and winter that suits me. There are more secluderd wilding spots for the rest of us.
> 
> Goodnight (and possibly goodbye from this forum)
> 
> 
> 
> Motorhome Facts is a _ forum _ A forum is, by definition, a place or medium where people can get together and discuss, freely and openly, a topic of mutual interest.
> 
> If you are determined that yours is the only view than can prevail and are not prepared to discuss it, then perhaps it is best that you do not belong to the forum.
> 
> (As to not being a wild camper myself! My family and I, between the 60s and late 80s, owned a series of tents and a VW camper and camped all over East, Central and southern Africa. This is as wild as you get under Obote, Amin and Mugabe not to mention lions and hippo.)
> 
> G
Click to expand...

And I lived in tents in Angola during the Civil War for more than a year.

Don't tell me about wild camping. I had friends killed ouit there. How many did you lose?


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## rosalan

If I park for too long in a street where time limits are displayed, I will be fined. Is it beyond possibility that signs stating permitted parking times could be used for overnight stops? We already have litter laws to cover any mess that gets left, we already have Parking meter patrol staff that could grab a little more cash for local coffers and stop some of our valued members getting annoyed.
Just a thought.
Alan


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## Grizzly

747 said:


> Don't tell me about wild camping. I had friends killed ouit there. How many did you lose?


I thought you'd gone ! More, I suspect than you did if I count friends, pupils, employees, acquaintances etc but them we were there a whole lot longer.

That's not the point however. As motorhomers- all- we should be working together to make the UK more aire aware.

A challenge to all of us. Identify a suitable local aire, go to your council and sell the idea- it needs facts and figures- go round to local firms and sell it to them too so that they feel they can contribute. Be prepared to counter arguments about travellers, litter etc - go round and check the aire and clear it before it is seen even ! Volunteer to work on that aire to get it up and running. Where such aires are provided ( and yes, there are lots of them) use them and tell local businesses you are using them and how much you have spent locally.

Stop moaning and do something positive.

We have a magnificent canal system in this country. Not many years ago it was in ruins and it was thanks to the like of Tom Rolt and others that we have the amenity we have today. If they can do it, why can't we ?

G


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## Pahanoita

O/p lived in Huttoft & paid C/tax for 25 yrs worked in Sutton 15 yrs paid taxes insurance etc. Sorry I do exist and just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm an idiot with IT I have worked with computors for 40 yrs 
Yes things do changed but why for the worst 
I'm clad to see that some of you do see and agree with some of the points I made but then there other who probally see only that someone is attacking M/h's and I can guess who they are (see you on the terrace) Believe it or not I am not the only one who complains to the LCC but I'm one of the few who complain to M/H's themselves many the local residents & other holiday makers are intimidated (scared) by some of the M/h's

*And I repeat I do pick my dogs crap up*

The Witch of Moggs Eye


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## Penquin

Pahanoita said:


> O/p lived in Huttoft & paid C/tax for 25 yrs worked in Sutton 15 yrs paid taxes insurance etc. Sorry I do exist and just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm an idiot with IT I have worked with computors for 40 yrs


All MH owners and users also pay taxes and insurance so they are the same as you.



Pahanoita said:


> Yes things do changed but why for the worst


that depends on your point of view, for some it is for the worst, for others it is for the better, the same is true throughout society, I *LOVED* going to a grammar school and did not welcome the removal of such establishments, others welcomed their demise since all schools were brought down to the same standard



Pahanoita said:


> I'm clad to see that some of you do see and agree with some of the points


I would suspect it is virtually all, not some, but their way of recognising and expressing may vary.



Pahanoita said:


> Believe it or not I am not the only one who complains to the LCC


has this been reported in the press anywhere? I was trying to do some research but cannot trace any reports, the only comments I can find are about the number of sea angling competitions held there...



Pahanoita said:


> but I'm one of the few who complain to M/H's themselves many the local residents & other holiday makers are intimidated (scared) by some of the M/h's


there should never, repeat never be any intimidation of anyone - I hope that the police have been informed of such intimidation? They take such things *VERY* seriously - there are several police officers who regularly read and report on this forum. It all comes down to the details being made available.



Pahanoita said:


> *And I repeat I do pick my dogs crap up*


that is not relevant to this thread and is simply emphasising a point, leaving dog faeces is a breach of byelways throughout the country as far as I am aware and is rigidly enforced by the Local Authority, once again has this been reported to them? The dangers of Toxicariosis is well documented and I know one youngster who has been blinded in one eye as a result of such an infection - thereby preventing him furthering his desied career in the armed forces. The son of another friend is completely blind having caught it playing in a public park.....



Pahanoita said:


> The Witch of Moggs Eye


would I be right in saying that your user name is translated from the Finnish as precisely that phrase?

Pieni Paha Noita (Bad Little Witch)

Olipa kerran *pieni paha noita* Känkkäränkkä nimeltään 
Once upon a time there was a *bad little witch* named Känkkäränkkä

Dave


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## Oscarmax

Pahanoita said:


> O/p lived in Huttoft & paid C/tax for 25 yrs worked in Sutton 15 yrs paid taxes insurance etc. Sorry I do exist and just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm an idiot with IT I have worked with computors for 40 yrs
> Yes things do changed but why for the worst
> I'm clad to see that some of you do see and agree with some of the points I made but then there other who probally see only that someone is attacking M/h's and I can guess who they are (see you on the terrace) Believe it or not I am not the only one who complains to the LCC but I'm one of the few who complain to M/H's themselves many the local residents & other holiday makers are intimidated (scared) by some of the M/h's
> 
> *And I repeat I do pick my dogs crap up*
> 
> The Witch of Moggs Eye


I am sorry for some of the attitudes and remarks held by some motorhomes, we respect your views and do not condone such behaviour. They would be the first to complain if it was on their doorstep.

We have often thought that would be a nice place to park, but dont. You will find the majority of use either use sites or the odd day or two, but what you describe is out of order.


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## Pahanoita

Pahanoita wrote: 
O/p lived in Huttoft & paid C/tax for 25 yrs worked in Sutton 15 yrs paid taxes insurance etc. Sorry I do exist and just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm an idiot with IT I have worked with computors for 40 yrs

All MH owners and users also pay taxes and insurance so they are the same as you.
*
I'm was proving I do exist & like many on here also pay taxes*

Pahanoita wrote:
Yes things do changed but why for the worst

that depends on your point of view, for some it is for the worst, for others it is for the better, the same is true throughout society, I LOVED going to a grammar school and did not welcome the removal of such establishments, others welcomed their demise since all schools were brought down to the same standard

*So lovely beauty spots can be made worse by M/H's who want to stay wherever they want*

Pahanoita wrote:
I'm clad to see that some of you do see and agree with some of the points

I would suspect it is virtually all, not some, but their way of recognising and expressing may vary

*I doubt its all taking some of the remarks on this & other sites about what I have posted.*

Pahanoita wrote: 
Believe it or not I am not the only one who complains to the LCC

has this been reported in the press anywhere? I was trying to do some research but cannot trace any reports, the only comments I can find are about the number of sea angling competitions held there...

*Why should it be reported in the press?*

Pahanoita wrote: 
but I'm one of the few who complain to M/H's themselves many the local residents & other holiday makers are intimidated (scared) by some of the M/h's

there should never, repeat never be any intimidation of anyone - I hope that the police have been informed of such intimidation? They take such things VERY seriously - there are several police officers who regularly read and report on this forum. It all comes down to the details being made available.

*Yes the police & LCC have been informed*

Pahanoita wrote: 
And I repeat I do pick my dogs crap up

that is not relevant to this thread and is simply emphasising a point, leaving dog faeces is a breach of byelways throughout the country as far as I am aware and is rigidly enforced by the Local Authority, once again has this been reported to them? The dangers of Toxicariosis is well documented and I know one youngster who has been blinded in one eye as a result of such an infection - thereby preventing him furthering his desied career in the armed forces. The son of another friend is completely blind having caught it playing in a public park.....

*Again if you read the posts will see that is brought up by various people to attack! me*

Pahanoita wrote:
The Witch of Moggs Eye

*Clever you yes it is Finnish amazing what you can find on the internet*

cut & pasted this easiest way

Paha Oita


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## steco1958

Quick question on this.

I have a MH, I use a campsite, but wish to visit the area you are identifying as being abused.

I pay all my insurances, Taxes and the like.

Why should I be penalized by having height restrictions applied to the car parks in the areas of natural beauty, just because I have a high MH.

A person could visit in their car, buy McDonalds or fish and chips and dump all the rubbish in the hedge.

Are you also upset at these people, as it seems you have a gripe only with motorhomes.

Or is it just a case of NIMBY, I purchased my house with this view and I do not want to share with anyone else.


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## Penquin

This is an open post to Pahanoita;

you appear to be conducting a one person campaign against motorhomers, research has now indicated WHY you raised the points about dog faeces as you have allegedly been reported for that offence, according to another forum which apparently has photographic evidence.

You seem to have little regard for the freedom of others to exercise their right to access places but only wish to attack *motorhome* owners. Sadly this is becoming a crusade by you which suggests that it has become an obsession.

I do not therefore intend to respond to your ranting posts which are difficult to understand since they contain no information other than unprovable vective.

I am sad to have to say this but the evidence from your posts is that you are attacking others, not as you would like to allege, it has not proved possible to have a rational discussion with you without your attacking every point raised with invective.

As you will no doubt realise you only have *ONE MORE *post on here unless you decide to subscribe.

Dave


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## SpeedyDux

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, pro- or anti-wild-camping, or maybe somewhere in between. I've yet to come across a definitive guide to the legalities of wildcamping on any MH website or in any of the main magazines. If there is one, please link to it. Meanwhile it polarises opinion.

There are those who seem to believe that unless there is a specific law or bye-law that prohibits overnight camping in your chosen place, it must be legal; and those who have a gut feeling that it probably isn't legal and at best this is a grey area; that wild camping is a practice which is acceptable if only a few do it, but once it reaches the point of abuse, height barriers and bans inevitably appear to the detriment of all of us. Then we play the blame game, and complain that the Council is discriminating against motorhomes. But it is too late. 

Rightly or wrongly, it's the impression for non-motorhomers (who are the overwhelming majority) created by squadrons of motorhomes camped in popular beauty spots that counts. That really matters in France as well as the UK. As a community I think we are sometimes blind to the perception that others have. To us motorhomes in themselves are an amazing invention and sometimes even a thing of beauty. To others they are merely self-propelled rather expensive caravans and an eyesore. It's another Marmite test - love it, or hate it. I have been given the disapproving "look" by a motorist who lives on my estate, with tut-tutting and finger-wagging for merely driving my little campervan along the road on which I live. Imagine if I had the temerity to park in front of my house, eh! Some people will just hate us regardless. 

If you care enough about this subject either to post on here or read this thread, then you are likely to be one of the responsible motorhomers who doesn't overstay, and clears up. If you are an offender you probably aren't even a lurker on MHF, and you really don't give a monkey's what others think about you and abusive wildcamping anyway. That's sad.


SD


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## spatz1

SpeedyDux said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, pro- or anti-wild-camping, or maybe somewhere in between. I've yet to come across a definitive guide to the legalities of wildcamping on any MH website or in any of the main magazines. If there is one, please link to it. Meanwhile it polarises opinion.
> 
> There are those who seem to believe that unless there is a specific law or bye-law that prohibits overnight camping in your chosen place, it must be legal; and those who have a gut feeling that it probably isn't legal and at best this is a grey area; that wild camping is a practice which is acceptable if only a few do it, but once it reaches the point of abuse, height barriers and bans inevitably appear to the detriment of all of us. Then we play the blame game, and complain that the Council is discriminating against motorhomes. But it is too late.
> 
> Rightly or wrongly, it's the impression for non-motorhomers (who are the overwhelming majority) created by squadrons of motorhomes camped in popular beauty spots that counts. That really matters in France as well as the UK. As a community I think we are sometimes blind to the perception that others have. To us motorhomes in themselves are an amazing invention and sometimes even a thing of beauty. To others they are merely self-propelled rather expensive caravans and an eyesore. It's another Marmite test - love it, or hate it. I have been given the disapproving "look" by a motorist who lives on my estate, with tut-tutting and finger-wagging for merely driving my little campervan along the road on which I live. Imagine if I had the temerity to park in front of my house, eh! Some people will just hate us regardless.
> 
> If you care enough about this subject either to post on here or read this thread, then you are likely to be one of the responsible motorhomers who doesn't overstay, and clears up. If you are an offender you probably aren't even a lurker on MHF, and you really don't give a monkey's what others think about you and abusive wildcamping anyway. That's sad.
> 
> SD


gor forbid park outside the house as i do... 

outside my girlfriends we returned from a holiday abroad having left it parked up there to be told by our trusty neighbour the council had been out to measure it :lol: :lol: 
he has no sense of humour so i find myself believing him...


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## Stanner

OK, answer just one question - why should only vehicles over a certain height be discriminated against?

Is it only occupants of such vehicles that cause problems?


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## nicholsong

My house in London has Residents' Parking and one cannot get a Residents' Permit for a vehicle over 2.3m - but there is no limit for a Visitor's Permit, of which one can have 120 a year.

However, I try hard to park outside my own house, even asking neighbours to move to another space to achieve that.

Alternatively I park at the end of the road, where there is a flank wall of side aspect/garden so not blocking anyone's view.

Never had any complaint. Unlike when I parked the company minibus, which took up little extra space than my car which was at the company car park.

Nowt so queer as folk!

Geoff


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## Pahanoita

If you read my first post I was against M/H's who stayed overnight (24 hrs) for not just one night but weeks, months & all year. I do feel sorry for the M/H's who want to come & stay for a day out but will not be able to when height restricters go up but whose fault is that. 
It was nice that some M/H's could see & agree about some of the points I made but of course there are the M/H's who will never see any other point of view except their own.

I'm off Good legal, polite & sensible Motor Homing to many of you

The Witch Of Moggs Eye

ps may I see the photograph of myself may be they have one of me throwing golf balls & eggs


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## Penquin

Thank you to Pahanoita for her input and thought provoking posts, much of what she has said will resonate with many of us - particularly the need for sensible behaviour and not out-staying one's welcome in any place.

I hope that all of us will think about what she has contributed and take on board the need for continued vigilance for all of us so that we can ensure that all of us can continue to enjoy our chosen life-style.

I have to say that many of us did not see eye to eye on some of the comments but all of us must respect her freedom to express these views without harrassment or acrimony. It is only if we all behave as we would like to be treated that the friction that appears to exist at that location (which is not one that I have, or am ever likely to visit) will cease. Such friction cannot be good for any of us.

Just let this thread be a warning to all of us of the need for sensible behaviour at all times.

Dave


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