# K&N Air Filter good or Bad



## johnTalisman (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi 

Has anyone used a K&N air filter fitted to a Fiat Ducato Multijet engine for any length of time, (mine is a 3lt), what experiences have you had, would you recommend them.

Thanks


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

I use one on my Sprinter Traveliner and Wife's Audi.

Not noticed anything Special about them.

TM


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I fitted one to my Ducato based van.

They are supposed to be more efficient than the paper ones but I have not noticed any difference.


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## Sprinta (Sep 15, 2010)

used them many times on motorcycles for their flow rate improvements and therefore increases in horsepower when tuning. But here we'd be looking at perhaps 2 or 3% over a stock filter and then only after adding more fuel.

Benefits on a diesel MH? probably minimal but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. 

You can wash them and reuse them so there can be savings if used and reused over a long period of time, bearing in mind they need to be reoiled as well, and the K&N oil is another expense.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

you will notice a slight increase in noise as well. not worth the expense really. The idea in the old days 8O to increase the airflow into the carb and adjust petrol flow to increase performance. not much good then either. a boy racer extra.  

cabby


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## john56 (Oct 14, 2012)

Used them many times on various cars when i was racing usually on the Ford Crossflow, on its own its of very little use but used as it should be, thats with uprated fuel system and tuned exhaust ( not much point in letting more air/fuel mixture into an engine if it cant get out through a standard exhaust ) they work very well.
On a diesel engine all you will achieve is more noise.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

I agree with the rest. Better to just replace the original at eurocarparts prices and not the £40 dealers charge.


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## johnTalisman (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks all guess I'll save myself the expense.


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

johnTalisman said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone used a K&N air filter fitted to a Fiat Ducato Multijet engine for any length of time, (mine is a 3lt), what experiences have you had, would you recommend them.
> 
> Thanks


I always fit one there is a very small difference in performance and probably will go un noticed . The paper filters will start to deteriorate from the time you start using it slowly clogging up but the K&N will carry on more efficiently for a longer period . The oil isn't expensive you can usually get it as part of a kit . You wont be long in recouping your costs against a paper filter , and if you intend driving in dusty conditions it's a doddle removing the K&N and cleaning it without the cost of purchasing a new filter . When I sold my Fiat Ducato 2.8 a few years ago I sold my K&N filter for 60% of the cost I bought it for on Ebay . I also now have a 3ltr which is fitted with a K&N filter and re mapped absolutely brilliant performance .


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

why the need for remapping a 3ltr, or is your van more than 3500kg.

cabby


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

cabby said:


> why the need for remapping a 3ltr, or is your van more than 3500kg.
> 
> cabby


Yes it's over 3500kg and makes it a far better drive.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

K&N filters are more expensive than original filters, do no more than original filters and if you clean them the solvent you use will damage your MAF. Their 'benefits' are much less than stated in their advertising.

Like silicon turbocharger hoses in bright colours, they appeal to those with more money than sense.

Standard air filters will pass much more air than needed by the engine, so unless you are really going to double your engine's output power, don't bother.

Peter


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

listerdiesel said:


> K&N filters are more expensive than original filters, do no more than original filters and if you clean them the solvent you use will damage your MAF. Their 'benefits' are much less than stated in their advertising.
> 
> Like silicon turbocharger hoses in bright colours, they appeal to those with more money than sense.
> 
> ...


Used them for years no problems.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Evs54 said:


> Used them for years no problems.


I didn't say that they gave any problems, just overpriced for what they do.

Peter


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

john56 said:


> Used them many times on various cars when i was racing usually on the Ford Crossflow, on its own its of very little use but used as it should be, thats with uprated fuel system and tuned exhaust ( not much point in letting more air/fuel mixture into an engine if it cant get out through a standard exhaust ) they work very well.
> On a diesel engine all you will achieve is more noise.


Hi John,

Not sure if I agree with that logic. If getting more air/fuel into an engine is of very little use then why do:- 
a. turbos show significant power increase.
b. intercoolers / turbos give even more power.

I can only see that having an air filter that allows greater air flow allows the intercooler and turbos do their job more efficiently.
Modern ECU's will make all the adjustments to mixture and timing to take advantage of any changes.

I don't think there are any large differences between tuning petrol an diesel engines.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

A premium quality air filter is only £12.60 from eurocarparts. My 70's experience of K&N was it cost more in cleaning and re oiling than putting a standard filter in.


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

johnTalisman said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone used a K&N air filter fitted to a Fiat Ducato Multijet engine for any length of time, (mine is a 3lt), what experiences have you had, would you recommend them.
> 
> Thanks


Came across this thread may be of interest http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/fo...Fiat-Ducato-filter-prices-shock-horror/26311/


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I cannot see how a different filter will let more air in. There is a sodding great TURBO whose job it is to force the air into the engine.

My own view is that the K&N filter does not have the very fine filtering properties of a quality paper filter. Probably not a great issue on MH unless it's used in a very dusty environment ( Like Morocco?) then I would want a " proper" paper filter not a boy racer "more noise means more power" item.


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## john56 (Oct 14, 2012)

BillCreer said:


> john56 said:
> 
> 
> > Used them many times on various cars when i was racing usually on the Ford Crossflow, on its own its of very little use but used as it should be, thats with uprated fuel system and tuned exhaust ( not much point in letting more air/fuel mixture into an engine if it cant get out through a standard exhaust ) they work very well.
> ...


Hi, i think if you read my post again you will read that i most certainly did not say that forcing more air/fuel into an engine was of no use, what i did say was that it was of little use if all this extra air was not coupled with an uprated fuel system and an uprated 
exhaust to deal with the extra exhaust gasses. 
My point being , on its own a KN filter is of little use .
In my experience with tuning the Ford crossflow engine a KN filter on its own gave virtually no power increase what so ever when tested on a Dynamometer but coupled with a Twin choke Weber and a tuned exhaust system the gains were between 8 and 10 BHP.
Now i appreciate there is a world of difference between a tuned Ford crossflow where you are trying to wring out every last ounce of power and a diesel engine fitted to a motorhome but to just fit a KN filter to any engine is pointless and as far as saving money is concerned , how much is a new air filter for goodness sake, chuck out the old one, fit the new one, job done, no arsing about cleaning the filter out , or oiling the element.
Apologies if my original post was unclear.


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

Waste of money unless you are prepared to change a vast array of things.

Like wasting your money on things like redex and other cleaners, far cheaper to fill up with the 'super' diesel type fuels (BP ultimate etc) every now and then.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

:wink:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181142735667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Over the years we have done over a million miles on diesel vans, and never had to do anything to the injection systems, no additives, nothing.

We only ever used branded fuels like Shell or BP, but never used the 'Special' blends, just the regular diesel.

The two Renault Trafics 2.5's are still going, one with over half a million kM on the clock.

The best treatment for any vehicle is a nice long run to blow the cobwebs out.

Peter


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

john56 said:


> BillCreer said:
> 
> 
> > john56 said:
> ...


Hi,
Nope I don't agree with you. Tuning is not an all or nothing science and single changes can make a difference especially when dealing with engines equipped with modern electronics. 
If you removed the air filter altogether you would gain a significant amount of power( not that I recommend that) and your engine will adjust the timing and the mixture with information provided by all those sensors now fitted.
If you did that on your old Ford cross flow, with no modern electronics, you would burn the valves and or hole the pistons as it would run too weak.
I agree that to gain "maximum" power from an engine then all aspects of tuning have to be considered.

I personally would not bother going outside the standard design of the engine fitted to my van. I'm driving a heavy old underpowered vehicle and a few more BHP is not going to make any difference.


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

johnTalisman said:


> Hi
> 
> Has anyone used a K&N air filter fitted to a Fiat Ducato Multijet engine for any length of time, (mine is a 3lt), what experiences have you had, would you recommend them.
> 
> Thanks


Well a simple question gone through the roof again on these forums with childish remarks about boy racers tuning this racing something else done this done that , answer the question anyone used a K&N filter on a Fiat Ducato for any lenght of time ,Most poster I think are on here just to be top of the posters list ,


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## john56 (Oct 14, 2012)

BillCreer said:


> john56 said:
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> > BillCreer said:
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Bill, im not sure where we disagree here although im struggling to find when making a single change on pre ECU engines made any significant improvement to performance and as you rightly say, in some cases it could be catastrophic, as for engines today using modern electronics i agree with what you said although the significant amount of power you claim by just removing the air cleaner im not so sure, certainly fitting a KN filter in my view would be negligible even with the ECU adjusting fuel and timing, i mean lets face it , if manufacturers could improve power with economy by just fitting a different air cleaner then why dont they do it.


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## john56 (Oct 14, 2012)

Evs54 said:


> johnTalisman said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


I suppose its me you are referring to, i read it as John was basically asking if anyone had had experience of using K&N filters which i had, this experience gained from racing.
I hoped from this it would help him to choose whether or not to go ahead and fit the filters to his motorhome.
Im struggling to find why you have an issue with this and as for becoming top of the posters list, iv not been on here for weeks but i will try and restrict my views entirely to motorhomes.


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## jako999 (Oct 19, 2006)

*Filter*

K&N are good filters but they do very little as far as performance goes you cant remap the engine enough to need one, I run a Porsche 911 Turbo as my car it sits at 480bhp and all i can say is Porsche only fit it with a standard paper filter. The K&N will make it sound a bit better as you thrash it around the Nürburgring. As for more power have you ever been able to open it up as a standard 3.0, we have a fairly heavy Arto with a 3.0 we go to Germany with it and ive opened her up to around the 120 and I have to say it goes very well the problem is not lack of power because of the size and the shape as soon as you get to 90 plus its a stability problem


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

jeez I bottled it at 110 with standard filter 8O


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## Evs54 (Mar 11, 2013)

john56 said:


> Evs54 said:
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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Evs54 said:


> john56 said:
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