# Perished tyre sidewalls?



## MARKLISA

Hi

We got our new (to us) MH on Wednesday of last week and were out in it at the weekend when hubby noticed that on 3 of the 4 tyres the side walls were perished. No bulges, but cracked. We called the dealer who was argumentative and told us they were perfectly safe and insinuated that we were trying to get a better deal after the fact by getting 4 new tyres out of him. It has a new MOT on it. His final position after much arguing was to take it back to him during working hours - which he knows we can't do as we both work full time - he would have someone verify if they needed replacing and then "we would agree on the price". 

Husband isn't too happy nor convinced that they're safe. The dealer says it wouldn't have passed an MOT if it wasn't safe. 

Is it normal for MH tyres to be perished in this way and should we insist on new? (Van has 3 months warranty on it)

Thanks in advance!


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## Zebedee

MARKLISA said:


> Is it normal for MH tyres to be perished in this way and should we insist on new? (Van has 3 months warranty on it)
> Thanks in advance!


Yes - it's quite normal. If they are badly perished it indicates that they are almost certainly old and unsafe. 8O

Yes again - you should insist on new (_or at least serviceable_) tyres, and call in expert support if you need to. The AA for example.

Dave


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## Hezbez

Do you know how old the tyres are?
There is usually a date code on one side wall of the tyre, in the form of 4 digits to show when they were made.

For example: 1107 = 11th week of 2007.

I think they recommend you change the tyres once they are 5 years old, irrespective of what tread they have left, as they are likely to become perished by then.


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## peribro

Why not call into your local Kwik Fit (or equivalent) and simply ask them for their opinion on your tyres? If they say they are fine, then you have saved yourself a trip to the dealer - and the ensuing argument. If they say that they are unsafe / perished / need replacing, then this gives you ammunition when you confront the dealer.


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## smithies

We had almost the same thing happen to us !!!....BUT.....we didn't notice the perishing till we had a blow out AND it was too late to get any compensation from the dealer....you are still in a position to get replacements...so go for it !!

We were told that the side walls are NOT checked on MOT...so the dealers comments on the validity of the MOT should be discounted....as all tyres these days are lots of money I would definitely take a day off work to pursue this....best of luck

Jenny


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## foll-de-roll

Hi. 

If you have to buy new tyres, have a look at National they do a reasonable tyre for Commercial vehicles Good offers in the Net. 



Best of Luck 


Andy


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM

There is an offence of selling or offering for sale a vehicle in an unroadworthy condition have a look at Sec 75 RTA 1988 . It is important therefore that you gather evidence at the earliest chance. You should the report this to the local Police and Trading Standards in the area where you purchased the vehicle. The evidence is opinion evidence so the more expert your expert is the better. Whilst the local tyre company may write them off their fitters evidence will not carry much weight. The AA inspection is a better route and I would want an inspector with a minimum of a technicians qualification. Finally get some good quality photographs of the cracking and record each tyres ID marks against the photograph relating to it. Get a nice manila folder and put your stuff in it including Trading standards Contacts, Police Contacts, AA contacts and Photos all in sub folders. Now you are prepared to meet the dealer and have a little ammunition to bargain with. You may also want to speak with the Dept of Transport regarding the MOT testing station who issued the certificate, they may have a file of complaints already.


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM

Just had a quick look at the MOT Testers Manual Para 4.1 Cb which covers the condition of tyres. It talks about lumps and bulges "a tyre has a lump, bulge or tear caused by separation or partial failure of its structure. This includes any lifting of the tread rubber or if any of its ply or cord exposed. Have a look yourself. MOT Testers Manual
MOT is very much a subjective test on the vehicle on the day it is presented for test. In other words the testers opinion on matters of how safe he feels the in the vehicle carries a great deal of weight. On the subject of weight it should be remembered by the tester that most motorhomes spend their lives loaded to the maximum weight and occasionally beyond. Your dealer at least should be aware of that. Maybe he would like to put into writing for you that the tyres are safe for use laden to their maximum weight whist the vehicle is driven at maximum legal speed. If not why not? I think at the end of negotiations I would expect to pay for the the amount of tread that is missing from the tyres if new ones are supplied, after all you were aware of their part worn condition when you purchased it.


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## Stanner

smithies said:


> We were told that the side walls are NOT checked on MOT...so the dealers comments on the validity of the MOT should be discounted....as all tyres these days are lots of money I would definitely take a day off work to pursue this....best of luck
> 
> Jenny


Not in my experience - if the MOT is done properly tyre "condition" should be checked not just the tread.

I have received advisories for sidewall damage and a fail once for a cut that exposed the plies.

Maybe involve VOSA who check test stations.
"What to do if you think your car has passed incorrectly

These cases usually relate to recently bought vehicles and you should let VOSA know as soon as possible.

Subject to acceptance of the complaint, VOSA will offer an appointment within five working days to recheck your vehicle without charge, provided:

* no more than three months has passed since the MOT test for a corrosion related problem
* no more than 28 days has passed with other defects

The address of your local VOSA office is displayed in the MOT test station or can be obtained from VOSA on 0300 123 9000.

VOSA provide this service as a means of monitoring the MOT Scheme and road safety standards. VOSA can't seek redress or compensation on your behalf - although it's open to you to take action in conjunction with your local Trading Standards department, take out proceedings personally, or refer the matter to the Police.

VOSA will supply you with the inspection report listing any vehicle defects and advisory items following the check of the vehicle. Any subsequent action that VOSA may decide to take against the testing station that tested your vehicle will be at VOSA's discretion and should have no bearing on any action you may decide to take. "

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022113


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## cabby

All good advice for you.
however I am asking you to tell us which dealer it is and keep us informed of the outcome please.

cabby


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## lindyloot

Hi our tyres on our MH have the side walls cracked. They are Michelines. 
I contacted Micheline and they advised me that because the vehicle is not used all the time and has long periods of being stood, they do crack. If the cracking exposes the core of the tyre then they are dangerous otherwise they are ok. 
We last had it Mot'd in november and we asked the tester about them . In his opinion they may go through another mot. 
Lin


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## duxdeluxe

Just had the same problem on mine.......... tyres were 2005 build date and the rears showing surface cracks on the sidewalls even though loads of tread still present. I asked the daughter's boyfriend who is an MOT tester who said he would look but not fail in that condition(issue an advisory) but also pointed out that this is all that keeps the van on the road. Therefore I changed the rears but kept the fronts which only showed very minor cracking (but I will replace them also shortly).

Best deal that I got was Etyres (google them). They come and fit for you. Kwik fit are a rip off, at least £20 a corner more expensive. just make sure that you choose camping tyres and not ordinary van tyres (yes I know it's obvious but an easy error to make).

Hope that above helps a little. It hurts to ditch tyres with that much tread on, but it is your life and that of your partner that you are risking.

A good idea is to either buy or make some tyre covers to keep the UV light off them when parked up - it is a little more difficult to keep them covered when moving, however, and I haven't found a solution to this (cue smart suggestion from Pusser....  )


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## Hezbez

Out of interest - Tread wise - how many thousand miles approx are tyres expected to last?


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## solentviews

The first MOT after I purchased my motorhome I was expecting it to fail as the tyres had side wall cracking on two tyres. It passed the MOT and when I queried this was informed that unless the core was exposed the tyres were considered to be acceptable. I then asked whether they would drive motorhome with current tyres, the answer was no so I changed them.
Hope this helps.
Ian


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## gaspode

Just to add to the confusion.................

My tyres (5 years old Michelin XC Camping) were showing signs of sidewall perishing although the treads were excellent (7mm+). I asked the MOT tester to check them carefully because of this and he said that they would be fine for another couple of years. Bear in mind that I have my 'van MOT'd at a tyre specialist so they had good economic reasons to recommend that I changed them (and sell me some new ones).
In spite of this advice I insisted they renew them for my peace of mind and when they took the old ones off I was quite surprised at how extensive the damage was. In spite of this the tyre specialist insisted they were still perfectly safe to use as the damage is only to the rubber on the sidewalls.
I notice with interest that the German TUV test will fail a caravan (yes they do test caravans over there) if the tyres are in excess of 6 years old, even if they appear to be in good condition.

OK, so does anyone want a couple of almost unworn 215x75x16 Michelin XC tyres with some sidewall cracking? Free to a good home on collection and very suitable for a spare wheel etc.


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## Spooky_b329

An earlier reply said to ensure you buy camping specific tyres. I would advise the opposite...don't bother with 'camping' tyres, get some decent mud and snow tyres to help get off wet sites.


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## Mick757

How do 'Camping' tyres differ from other commercial-type tyres? As im thinking of the 'mud and snow' type when i get around to changing, as well, and hang the road 'hum'.


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## cater_racer

Mick757 said:


> How do 'Camping' tyres differ from other commercial-type tyres? As im thinking of the 'mud and snow' type when i get around to changing, as well, and hang the road 'hum'.


Camping Tyres have more ridgid tyre walls and are theoretically better suited to withstanding long stationary periods.

How unfortunate you must be to have tyres that last so long.

It is sure sign that you are not using your motorhomes to anything like full potential.

Cater ( two sets of tyres , in two years {38,000 miles}) Racer


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## duxdeluxe

Spooky_b329 said:


> An earlier reply said to ensure you buy camping specific tyres. I would advise the opposite...don't bother with 'camping' tyres, get some decent mud and snow tyres to help get off wet sites.


I hope you're joking.

Camping tyres are designed for continuous high loads at the max capacity of the van. Ordinary van tyres are simply not designed to run with this sort of loading.

I watch the pennies but what price safety? - please let us all know where you are going so that we can be well clear when your tyres disintegrate at speed...........

Sorry I simply don't agree with this at all.


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## badger750

if you buy non camping tyres just get the same or above load rating as this will then be equal or above what is already fitted i think most camping tyres are load rated to 113/111 or may be 116/113 some one on here brought some 10 ply tyres for their m/h


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## erneboy

I usually expect around 20,000 miles which, for us is between one and two years from a set of front tyres so I do not need to worry about perishing sidewalls. Rear tyres I get maybe three years, Alan.


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## UncleNorm

And here's a thread I started earlier... like August 2007!! It carries a serious warning. :roll:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-32111-.html


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## nipperdin

*Perished tyre sidewalls*

I know that changing tyres can be very expensive but I am always amazed at how far people want to push their luck before replacing them.
it is only those 4 (sometimes 6) bits of rubber that are allowing your vehicle to hold the road and to let you corner and brake safely.
Is saving money worth the possible consequences to you, your family and to other road users in the event of a blow out.
If you do have an accident and the police are involved they are quite likely to fully examine the tyres for defects or incorrect pressures.
If they report faults then your insurance company is likely to reject any claims.
So tread carefully my friends.


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## MARKLISA

Hi

Thanks all, some great advice, strangely enough all pretty much contradicting the dealer who was very clear that they were perfectly fine and safe and "he wouldn't be willing to put our lives at risk by saying drive something that isn't safe..."

We don't have the time nor energy to argue with a dealer who is so clearly sure that he is right and is therefore pretty unwilling to help the situation. 

We've arranged to have 4 new tyres fitted before our next outing and have written to the dealer explaining why we are doing what we are doing and, as he's an award winning and highly reputable dealer, we are sure that he will respond with a contribution to the cost of said tyres. 

Its not fair to name the dealer until we have given him the opportunity to rectify the situation for a second time but we will keep you all updated. 

Thanks again!


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## Spooky_b329

_I hope you're joking.

Camping tyres are designed for continuous high loads at the max capacity of the van. Ordinary van tyres are simply not designed to run with this sort of loading. _

Who told you that?! Its plain wrong.

My work van is almost fully laden to 3500kg, it is a luton bodied chassis cab with dual rear wheels so pretty much identical in vehicle dynamics/handling to a coachbuilt, and it gets driven a damn site faster than motorhomes. (I wouldn't drive it like I do if it was my own!) Why on earth would a 3500kg motorhome need different tyres to a 3500kg commercial vehicle?

When you consider a commercial will be bumped over kerbs and receive a lot more abuse then surely if any tyre type were safer, it would be plain old commercial rated van tyres.

Camping tyres are designed firstly to empty your pocket, secondly to slightly increase tyre life when left sitting for long periods. Thirdly, they just severely restrict your tyre choice.

My campervan spent the first five years of its life as a commercial delivery van, its now converted to a camper. From your advice I would need to change my tyres...


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## duxdeluxe

....then why aren't ordinary tyres supplied when the van is new? Manufacturers go to extraordinary lengths to save pennies on a vehicle and you don't think that they would let that chance pass up, do you? Think about it.... they are on there for a reason. It's a free country - and I'll stick to the correct tyres for the vehicle thanks, rather than risk failure or even possibly invalid insurance due to not having the correct tyres on the vehicle


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## grizzlyj

If camping tyres are designed to be stood for a long time ( in which case perhaps you should overinflate the tyres or take the weight off them on axle stands to prevent flat spots), then for anyone who uses the van laden and extensively without being stood, the camping tyres are then the wrong ones and commercial van tyres become more suitable surely!?


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## grizzlyj

*303 Aeropsace Protectant for tyres*

This company, who are well regarded for both hot tub, garden, marine and vehicle products has some info here on tyre degradation due to UV;

http://www.303products.com/pdfs/303-Pamphlet-TechFacts-2009.pdf

Essentially saying that the part of a tyre that makes it black is the cheapest form of UV protection tyre manufacturers can put in. If they used another product the tyre would not be black.
Also the fact that this constituent of a tyre is sacrificial, the UV will in time break down the structure of the tyre, presumably the reason tyre manufacturers give a five year life? Do they say the same in sunny California and northern Norway?

One of the UK suppliers of the 303 Aerospace Protectant quote "The single biggest cause of damage to Microlights is U.V. degradation. It is a fact that in
5 months of continous exposure to sunlight, Dacron will loose 85% of its tear strength!" You don't want your microlight wing failing due to UV degradation even more than your tyres!

Anyhow, I've used the Aerospace Protectant made by 303 on my camper tyres, and although its only been on a year, half of which was in southern France, the tyres still look a lot better than before. In fact just to make your tyres look nice its good stuff. Recommended!


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## badger750

i took my m/h to a dealer today for them to look at him buying it
the sales man looked round quickly and then went straight to the tyres and then proceeded to tell me how dangerous they were and they would never pass an mot as they were due to cracking in the side wall and how it would cost them so much money to replace them and i would have to drop from the agreed price which he said would be over £400 for the four tyres 
i still have the motorhome


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## duxdeluxe

Thanks - read up about it and ordered some


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