# Burstner slow service - is this typical?



## alhod

We have a new Aviano purchased in UK December. After driving down I drained down to park for most of January and when refilling discovered that the drain valve had failed. The local Burstner agent here ordered a replacement three weeks ago and checking today I was informed it could be another five weeks wait!
I have heard that Burstner service can be c**p but this is ridiculous. Is this what can be expected cos if so I fear the purchase was a bad move!
Any others have experience?

Alan


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## Jimbost

Took two weeks to for my dealer get a new control panel under warrenty for me. As the older style panel was unavailable they supplied one of newer design and charged the price of the 'cheaper' old one to the dealer.


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## Zebedee

How bloody ridiculous Alan.

Your van effectively out of action for a twopenny component that should be in stock at every Burstner agent's workshop.

I have to say that's one of the major reasons why we bought British. We are fortunate in living quite close to Autosleepers, but even if we lived in Scapa Flow they would get a part to us in a couple of days.

I don't normally suggest getting stroppy, but in this case I think I would shout long and loud. He who makes the most fuss shouldn't get the best service - but he usually does!! :roll: 

Dave


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## 113016

Could the drain down valve be a Truma part.
Why, if it is not a specific Burstner part, can't the dealer source one from the UK?
Or surely do a temporary fix!


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## stewartwebr

I would challenge this as it is certainly not the norm. Burstner normally deliver things in 3 weeks max. I would speak with the dealer and get it sorted. 
I am collecting my new elegance next week and the main reason for buying another Burstner is down to the customer service, I have found them to be excellent.


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## Sandy_Saunders

I find this hard to believe. When we had an "incident"   with our Delfin, all the parts required to fix it were supplied in ten days.

Grath makes a good suggestion, check whether it is a standard Truma part, which will probably be easy to obtain.

Sandy


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## ubuntu1

*Burstner parts*

From what you have decribed it sounds like a standard Truma part which should be available off the shelf.

Burstner are no better or worse than anyone else in my opinion.


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## Talaris

*Dethleffs 17 weeks and counting....*

so no its not bad just par for the course from the cottage industry that is motorhome manufacturing.

Top van you have by the way


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## alhod

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I am not sure if this delay is down to Burstner or the agent here in France but either way it is very frustrating! 
The dealer has a new van sitting in their stock and I requested they should take the valve from that and replace when the Burstner replacement arrives but that did not go down well. 
One of the main reasons for buying Burstner is the Europe wide warranty so this is doubly annoying but hopefully wit the pressure I have put on these people together with some also from the UK supplier and maybe a call to Germany I can get this unplugged.
I just wonder how these people stay in business - I always aim to respond to my customers in 24 hours max but these creeps just go at their own speed!

anyway, the four nights we have had in the van so far were good so looking forward to a great summer, eventually. 

Alan


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## premiermotorhomes

Good evening,

It may not be clear from the outset but aside from your Burstner warranty some of the appliance manufacturers such as Truma, Dometic & Thetford enable dealers to claim directly against them instead of the converter which is many cases provides a more prompt service.

In this example (assuming Truma not Alde), albeit the drain valve is a part common to all motorhomes in my experience it's not that susceptible to failure. I've carried one in stock since the new styles introduction years ago, however we've never been required to use it so once sold I wouldn't replenish it so it wouldn't suprise me if other dealers may not keep one in stock for similar reasons.

Once a fault is identified, a claim for parts and labour will be submitted to the relevant manufacturer who will subsequently investigate the claim and all being well will provide authorisation for the work to be undertaken which in some cases can be the same day, a week or longer depending on the nature of the claim. They may also request parts to be returned for inspection prior to authorisation and in some cases authorisation is not provided and the dealer then has to fight their corner.

Provided authorisation is given, they will either arrange for a replacement part to be dispatched with no further intervention or some manufacurers will not automatically send the part if as their systems require dealers to order the part on the parts system (as we get invoiced for the parts, and subsequently reimbursed). Provided parts are in stock could take from one week to a month, or if not in stock a number of months to be delivered.. If the part is not specific to them and if they are unable to supply then in some cases they can request that the dealer supply the part from their own stock or to order it from an alternative supplier to the industry and subsequently provide the manufacturer a copy invoice for them to be reimbursed the value of the parts. 

Where authorisation has been provided and in those cases where we have the part in stock this provides us some flexibility that we can use the stock part to expedite the warranty repair, and when the replacement arrives we would return it to stock to replace that taken for the repair work.

As you can see there are numerous factors which will affect timescale;

1) How long it takes for the dealer to process and submit the claim
2) How long it takes for the manufacturer to process and authorise the claim
3) How long it takes for the dealer to order the parts if required
4) If the claim is not authorised, how long it takes for the dealer to argue their case
5) Manufacturers part availability or alternative suppliers availability
6) Manufacturers suppliers availability
7) Delivery times
8 ) Delivery damage or incorrect parts recieved, requiring parts to be reordered
9) Delays from public holidays, including those from the UK and any European country the manufacturer or parts manufacturer may reside in
10) Booking in time to the dealers workshop
11) Human error

These points affect all dealers and manufacturers; I don't think one brand is any better than another, so don't be put off as theres always a combination of factors which can lead to delays. 

Of course dealers should want to look after their customers to the best of their ability but unfortunately delays do occur but we always do our utmost to keep these to a minimum for those factors we do have control over. 

Do we know if the claim was submitted to Alde, Truma or to Burstner and have you asked the dealer where exactly the delay is coming from? It could be as simple as an availability issue as expressed to you; the dealer has nothing to gain from delaying delivery of the replacement part to you.

I hope this sheds some light on the process, but if anyone has any questions you are welcome to ask.

Regards,
Chris


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## Zebedee

What a terrifying saga Chris.

Even more amazing when you realise that if I need virtually any spare for my 2CV, which was build in 1988, I can have it in 2 days - the time it takes the postman to arrive.

Does the process of getting a spare for an almost new M/H really need to be as complex as you have described it for us? I always understood that computerised stock control systems were an advance!!

Dave


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## premiermotorhomes

Good evening Dave, 

In my previous post I was just trying to convey the number of factors involved in the warranty process and to be fair more often than not its a smooth process and most parts are available within a reasonable time frame.

Spare parts is a different process, and far simpler as many factors mentioned previously are removed. Provided we have the correct vehicle detail and can correctly identify the part then you are only subject to supplier or manufacturer availability and the experience of your preferred dealers parts team at sourcing from multiple sources to balance price, availability and delivery times to ensure customer satisfaction. In the best case scenario I can have Hymer parts ordered on a Wednesday with me by the following Monday, Truma parts next day etc.

I have a 1981 VW T3 Transporter and I am still amazed that I can still purchase nearly any part I require, but then again the volume of production of such vehicles far outweighs the relatively small scale production of motorhomes which will be a factor in the ease of parts availability for older vehicles.

Regards,
Chris


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## alhod

premiermotorhomes said:


> Good evening,
> 
> It may not be clear from the outset but aside from your Burstner warranty some of the appliance manufacturers such as Truma, Dometic & Thetford enable dealers to claim directly against them instead of the converter which is many cases provides a more prompt service.
> 
> In this example (assuming Truma not Alde), albeit the drain valve is a part common to all motorhomes in my experience it's not that susceptible to failure. I've carried one in stock since the new styles introduction years ago, however we've never been required to use it so once sold I wouldn't replenish it so it wouldn't suprise me if other dealers may not keep one in stock for similar reasons.
> 
> Once a fault is identified, a claim for parts and labour will be submitted to the relevant manufacturer who will subsequently investigate the claim and all being well will provide authorisation for the work to be undertaken which in some cases can be the same day, a week or longer depending on the nature of the claim. They may also request parts to be returned for inspection prior to authorisation and in some cases authorisation is not provided and the dealer then has to fight their corner.
> 
> Provided authorisation is given, they will either arrange for a replacement part to be dispatched with no further intervention or some manufacurers will not automatically send the part if as their systems require dealers to order the part on the parts system (as we get invoiced for the parts, and subsequently reimbursed). Provided parts are in stock could take from one week to a month, or if not in stock a number of months to be delivered.. If the part is not specific to them and if they are unable to supply then in some cases they can request that the dealer supply the part from their own stock or to order it from an alternative supplier to the industry and subsequently provide the manufacturer a copy invoice for them to be reimbursed the value of the parts.
> 
> Where authorisation has been provided and in those cases where we have the part in stock this provides us some flexibility that we can use the stock part to expedite the warranty repair, and when the replacement arrives we would return it to stock to replace that taken for the repair work.
> 
> As you can see there are numerous factors which will affect timescale;
> 
> 1) How long it takes for the dealer to process and submit the claim
> 2) How long it takes for the manufacturer to process and authorise the claim
> 3) How long it takes for the dealer to order the parts if required
> 4) If the claim is not authorised, how long it takes for the dealer to argue their case
> 5) Manufacturers part availability or alternative suppliers availability
> 6) Manufacturers suppliers availability
> 7) Delivery times
> 8 ) Delivery damage or incorrect parts recieved, requiring parts to be reordered
> 9) Delays from public holidays, including those from the UK and any European country the manufacturer or parts manufacturer may reside in
> 10) Booking in time to the dealers workshop
> 11) Human error
> 
> These points affect all dealers and manufacturers; I don't think one brand is any better than another, so don't be put off as theres always a combination of factors which can lead to delays.
> 
> Of course dealers should want to look after their customers to the best of their ability but unfortunately delays do occur but we always do our utmost to keep these to a minimum for those factors we do have control over.
> 
> Do we know if the claim was submitted to Alde, Truma or to Burstner and have you asked the dealer where exactly the delay is coming from?
> 
> I hope this sheds some light on the process, but if anyone has any questions you are welcome to ask.
> 
> Regards,
> Chris


Thank you for your exhaustive list of possible excuses for Burstner failing to get my van back on the road. What you have said is, I am sure, all absolutely accurate and with my commercial hat on I fully understand the complexities of the system.
But as a consumer none of that cuts any ice at all! I paid well over £60,000 for a brand new vehicle complete with a Europe wide warranty. On the fifth day of use a vital component failed which is unfortunate but these things happen - no manufacturing system is perfect. But the test of a good manufacturer is how the failures are corrected and in this case Burstner are failing that test BIG TIME.
Actually I don't care about all the bits of the system you have gone to so much trouble to detail. I'm sure it's all correct but the bottom line is I cannot use my campervan and I am not a happy bunny.

Burstner can argue all they want and you can all have meetings, exchange emails, send bits of paper around and take apart the faulty valve to find out why it failed, but do all that AFTER you have replaced it in my van and sent me away smiling.

If the process you have outlined is typical of the approach to after-sales service in the industry then I would respectfully suggest that you are all completely on the wrong track and I am not surprised there are so many disgruntled buyers on this and other forums.

Have a happy life - treat the customer as king!

Alan


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## alhod

Zebedee said:


> What a terrifying saga Chris.
> 
> Even more amazing when you realise that if I need virtually any spare for my 2CV, which was build in 1988, I can have it in 2 days - the time it takes the postman to arrive.
> 
> Does the process of getting a spare for an almost new M/H really need to be as complex as you have described it for us? I always understood that computerised stock control systems were an advance!!
> 
> Dave


Dave - you have a 2CV? I love those cars! Keep promising myself to get one, some day.

8)

Alan


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## premiermotorhomes

Good evening Alan, 

I fully understand your position and frustration and I can only hope that this is brought to a conclusion in as timely manner as possible, and I would like to hear from you to know this has been resolved if thats ok?

It's useful having an alternative perspective to such matters working in the industry, but granted I expect if I was in the same position I would feel exactly the same as you do and expect a prompt resolution.

I agree that the test of a good manufacturer is how issues such are attended to, but your experience will only be as good as the dealer looking after you. No matter how good the manufacturer, if the dealer were to unknowingly let you down the perception of the manufacturer would be affected even if the issue is not directly attributable to them.

May I ask whether the delay is confirmed as being caused by Burstner and not another factor?

An alternative suggestion which may assist you would be contacting your dealer to ask them whether they would be prepared to submit the warranty claim with Truma directly rather than through Burstner which should be a quicker process as Truma UK not their German head office process warranty claims, and parts replacement for the UK. You can call them on Truma UK on 01283 586050 if you require any assistance. Truma warranty does not need to be undertaken by the supplying dealer, and Truma should be able to supply a list of alternative dealers who could process a claim for you.

Additionally,have you considered speaking to your dealer to see if they can temporarily offer a replacement part from another vehicle for example until the new part arrives to minimise any disruption to you?

The warranty process I have outlined is simply how the process functions which in its basic form is to identify fault, submit claim, wait for authorisation, order parts, replace parts when delivered. I have gone in to great detail to outline the possible issues and delays that can arise surrounding this process which are not typical of the claims process which in most cases ensures issues are rectified promptly where authorisation is provided within days and parts delivered just as quickly to maintain a relationship with both the dealer and manufacturer and to protect their reputation. 

However sometimes it just boils down to basic customer service and if delays are possible then its up to the dealer to maintain customer satisfaction to the best of their ability, which does mean that we do have to accept some repairs as goodwill or undertake warranty work prior to authorisation. Customer satisfaction is key to the continued growth and maintained success of any business and yes the customer should be treated as king.

As a last resort, if you are still stuck let me know and I will see if I can locate a dump valve we can lend you to get you out of trouble if you're in the UK? I'd just need to know if you are running push fit or flexible pipes with jubilee clips.

Regards,
Chris


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## alhod

Hi Chris
Thanks for those comments and especially for your kind offer. I am in fact in France and that is the prime reason for me regarding this as a failure by Burstner since the dealer here has no self-interest in resolving the problem.

I understand the need for makers to keep control of their costs and avoid claims running away (cost wise, that is). But surely it is possible to strike a balance and give dealers some leeway. Say authority to deal with claims up to £200 without prior authorisation.

Alan


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## Zebedee

alhod said:


> But surely it is possible to strike a balance and give dealers some leeway. Say authority to deal with claims up to £200 without prior authorisation. Alan


I also appreciate your time and trouble to explain the system Chris - but it's the system itself which causes the problems, and not only with motorhomes.

To be as brief as possible, there are two major snags as I see it - both due to the sodding computer.

1). Computerised systems have not simplified matters. They have made them infinitely more complex, and therefore infinitely more prone to "_system failure_". Old Fred behind the counter of the spares dept seemed to manage a lot better, and I bet he didn't cost as much to run! :roll: :lol:

2). Everybody has to obey the bloody computer! As Alan so rightly said, there is no leeway allowed for human intervention when sensible decisions need to be made on the spot.
More than likely the spotty youth who programmed the system had no first hand experience or background knowledge of how things work in the real world. A recipe for failure and inefficiency, and hence the reason we so often face the easily avoidable problems Alan is experiencing at present.

It's called "Progress"! :roll:

Dave


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## ubuntu1

*warranty*

Zebedee- computers, you would be amazed how much of this is done on paper!! I do warranty work for a lot of these big suppliers and I can tell you its like the motor trade 20 years a go. There are some really good exceptions to this but the motorhome industry is still old fashioned and a cottage industry.


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## 113016

From the above post by Premier, it seems to me that the dealers are not trusted by the manufacturers, if they need to get approval for every warranty claim  
When I was in Marine Sales, we were proper franchised dealers, for a few boats and engines, we paid for our stock and at worst, a warranty decision was at the other end of the phone.
Regarding engines, we were authorized to make immediate decisions, on all but exceptionally high claims and never did we have to return faulty parts. On the very rare occasion, the representative would inspect the removed parts on his next visit.
Another point regarding engines. It was a condition of franchise that we carried a few thousand pounds worth of spares :!: 
So, in conclusion, it seems the M/H manufacturers are far behind how the Marine Industry was 30 years ago


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## premiermotorhomes

Good morning everyone,

Thank you everyone for expressing your thanks for my time to explain these processes, this is appreciated.

I don't believe its a matter of trust, as the manufacturers have to confirm through this process that the warranty has not expired and if servicing has been correctly undertaken to meet the terms and conditions of the warranty, although Sales Of Goods Act may still apply. I assume thay also have to protect themselves against false claims, as I am sure they see numerous dodgy claims input. This is not an issue for the dealer who sold the motorhome as they know when the motorhome was sold and hopefully future servicing is undertaken and recorded by them however if another dealer was undertaking the warranty work these conditions would need to be confirmed first, as they may not want to take the risk of using their own stock to assist which if the claim was rejected they would not be able to recover.

I think the idea of a £200 limit to be a good idea, however the majority of claims including labour are likely exceed this value as a good deal of the parts are high value items, such as panels, furniture, upholstery etc and depending on the part can also incurr high labour costs, although there will always be lower value parts such as water caps, side markers etc that won't exceed such a value where the dealer may just take the risk. The other issue is that there are hundreds of thousands of parts that comprise a motorhome, from numerous manufacturers so any limit could only apply to generic stock a dealer carried as if they had to order it then they may as well take the additional time it takes to get the claim authorised. What are your thoughts?

Now, we don't have to strictly follow the process in the order laid out in my previous post as its just not practical although ultimately it would be followed at some point; for example, if we had sold a motorhome and within a week the Truma regulator failed it is extremely unlikely that the manufacturer would reject the claim so at this point it's in both our interest and the customers to just change the regulator and the rest of the claims process would be handled behind the scenes. Of course this example can be extended to other parts such as side markers, water caps etc, but the risk is on the dealer and their experience of the claims process to know when this is an appropriate risk to take which also has to be balanced against timescales, customer expectation, customer locale, and any pre arranged dates they have for travel. Certainly for lower value parts, which the dealer may well have in stock then theres a good chance its a risk worth taking to maintain customer satisfaction. If a body panel or window had to be ordered which is likely to be a high value part, then I would expect the dealer to await authorisation first which in reality normally does not take very long at all and in the case of Adria and Chausson I know we have recieved authorisation the same day.

I was made aware of a case by a rep where a window was claimed for under warranty at another dealer as it had fractured, and it turns out that the damage was caused by the use of Windolene (in one of the photos of the window) as a cleaning solution. This claim was of course rejected as the window had not suffered from a warrantable defect but due to the use of an inappropriate cleaning solution by the customer. In this example, its not appropriate for the dealer or manufacturer to cover the cost of the window.

@Alhod, if you would be happy to accept any shipping costs as you can appreciate I couldn't absorb this cost and I will see what I can do, let me know. Thank you also for clarifying the situation with Burstner, and I am appalled that their own dealer network is not supporting the brand is this function is part and parcel of being a dealer! 

Have you tried contacting the French Truma Service agent?: http://dealer.truma.com/truma05/en/service/detail_en_702.html

@Zebedee. I don't think I could work without computers, there are so many parts which change with every model that the computerised parts system is a fantastic resource which makes my life a lot easier locating parts specific to a manufacturer, however a dealer with a well stocked accessory shop should carry a good number of generic spares such as water caps, locks etc. Ubuntu1 is quite right, a lot of warranty claims are submitted on paper but then may have parts ordered on the computer. I am only 29, so I am not able to comment on everyone's past experience of such systems in other industrys in the past.

@Grath. I think carrying spares is a great idea, and of course many dealers already do for generic parts that as per my previous posts they could borrow from their own stock until the manufacturer replaces it. I think where engines are concerned the number of possible parts is limited but for motorhomes there are hundreds and thousands of them which may make such an exercise impractical.

Regards,
Chris


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## erneboy

Interesting thread. Especially the point of view Chris has explained.

As Alan says, none of this makes any difference at all to the customer. He wants his van is working order and that is as it should be. The whole MH industry needs to be focused on providing service, not on providing excuses and obstacles.

It simply isn't good enough and would not work in a properly competitive sector. Companies behaving in this way would go bust in no time flat.

I have an example of this going on at the minute. I need two tiny components from Adle. They don't have them in stock but may do soon. When they have them they want £13 to post them inside the UK. They are tiny and indestructible, would fit in a small padded envelope and have a true value of a couple of pounds each. 

Why does this not surprise me that they don't have them and want to charge £13 for postage and an envelope which will cost them £2?

Like Dave I have an old Citroen, 1975, seem my avatar. Every single part is available and two days away by post. Proper service in a competitive market. I can buy these parts from any one of 10 or so outlets around Europe, Alan.


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## 113016

Chris, I take in what you say, on large specific expensive parts, but surely a dealer should be able to carry out none structural warranty repairs without prior manufacturers authorisation. 
That is if the manufacturers trust the dealers!
Lets face it, most warranty jobs are carried out by the supplying dealer, who knows the customer and the vehicle service history.
We have read so many times and in recent threads, that other same franchise dealers (unlike motor trade) are not obliged to carry out warranty rectification work on vehicles they have not sold!
That is the route of the warranty problem, we are back to the Pan UK or Pan European Warranty issue.


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## chiefwigwam

Computer say NO


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## premiermotorhomes

Grath said:


> Chris, I take in what you say, on large specific expensive parts, but surely a dealer should be able to carry out none structural warranty repairs without prior manufacturers authorisation.
> That is if the manufacturers trust the dealers!
> Lets face it, most warranty jobs are carried out by the supplying dealer, who knows the customer and the vehicle service history.
> We have read so many times and in recent threads, that other same franchise dealers (unlike motor trade) are not obliged to carry out warranty rectification work on vehicles they have not sold!
> That is the route of the warranty problem, we are back to the Pan UK or Pan European Warranty issue.


Good afternoon Grath,

Authorisation to undertake warrranty work provides dealers the gaurantee they need to ensure they will be reimbursed for any expenditure in labour and parts, without this gaurantee undertaking any work is at the dealers risk for the loss of any expenditure if a claim is rejected. We have experience with these systems to be understand what would be authorised so we know we can undertake warranty work prior to authorisation if the risk of a claim being rejected is minimal especially with low value parts or jobs with no parts requirement. In the majority of cases and especially with high value parts they may not be stock items so they would have to be ordered anyway, so in these cases the warranty process would be followed and would add only the admin time it takes to recieve authorisation which as mentioned previously is normally very prompt. We still have to balance any decision on customers expection, timescales and locale etc to come to an arrangement which keeps everyone happy and keeping the customer informed is also a key part of this.

As I understand it, legally in the UK the warranty provided with your vehicle must be provided from the supplying dealer as a minimum and other dealers have no obligation to undertake warranty work for vehicles they have not sold even if they have the capacity and means to do so but this is at their discretion. I do not know if any of the contracts we have with the manufacturers force dealers in to a position where they must look after all motorhomes irrespective of dealer and whether this is enforceable under UK law. Does anyone know? I think the reason why dealers do not want to undertake the warranty work for vehicles they have not sold is that warranty work is non profit and in some cases the labour rates and agreed hours are so low it can put dealers in a position where they lose money doing it. If the dealer sold the van then they may have more flexibilty using goodwill to resolve matters as they can offset any costs not covered by the manufacturer against the profit of the motorhome.

We do not follow this approach as we endeavour to look after all or our customers irrespective of the supplying dealer and we will undertake warranty work on motorhomes we have not sold for all of our franchises as manufacturers don't really provide any restrictions on us aside from supplying them proof of entitlement such as habitation service reports etc that may required under the warranty terms. This is good practice and enables us to build a strong and loyal customer base. Warranties with Truma, Dometic, Thetford etc can be undertaken pretty much by any dealer so we can work on these even if we are not a franchise for the motorhome its fitted to.

I have been reading about the Pan European Warranty issues specifically regarding Hymer, and I am under the impression that Hymer do provide a Pan European warranty, however the issue remains of course that it may be at the discretion of the dealer whether it is undertaken. I do not know what the legal requirements are as I expect these may change by country.

Regards,
Chris


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## javea

Hi Chris,

You may like to read this thread : http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-131550-days0-orderasc-0.html.

Paul Kershaw from Hymer started to contribute about Hymers but disappeared fairly quickly once some criticisms were voiced.

A number of us were under the impression that Hymer operated a Pan European warranty (as I was told when I purchased my first Hymer from Bad Waldsee) but we were disavowed of this belief by Mr Kershaw himself.

Came as a disappointment to me and others.

Having experienced the service from your company I have no doubt that if I came to you with a problem you would sort it without quibble but Mr Kershaw suggested that there was no obligation on a non-supplying Hymer dealer to resolve a warranty issue, a concerning thought if you are somewhere in Europe, miles from your original dealer when a problem arises.

Kind regards,

Mike


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## 113016

Chris, everything you have said is as it was when I was selling boats and engines, but we were trusted to authorise warranty for engine and jet ski faults. Obviously if this was abused, the manufacturer would remove this trust and facility.
Regarding pan European warranty, Paul Kershaw, did say it was a no go.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated.


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## erneboy

Mr. Kershaw seemed to join that thread rather in the manner of a headmaster who wished to lay down the rules, I thought.

That generally goes down badly with adults and his customers are all adults, Alan.


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## premiermotorhomes

Good afternoon everyone, 


Thanks for the link Mike, I remember this thread now I've glanced back through it.

I know we can offer warranty on Hymers we have not sold as we've already undertaken such work on a local owners motorhome. I will see if I can locate a contact at Hymer Germany to provide an official statement on the status of a Pan European warranty and I'll let you know how I get on.

I'm off out for the evening soon, so I will catch up with you all later.

Regards,
Chris


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## erneboy

Why couldn't Mr. Kershaw have said that? Alan.


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## javea

erneboy said:


> Why couldn't Mr. Kershaw have said that? Alan.


Because he hasn't got the commitment that Chris demonstrates, Alan.


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## 113016

Chris, I hope you had a good night out.
I think, and I doubt, I am not alone, that yourself and Premier Motorhomes are certainly one of the better dealers around, and I thank you for your posts, many other dealers should most certainly follow your lead, but I suspect they will not.
Please don't get me wrong.I am not having a go at you or your company, but I do think that there are a lot of bad apples within the M/H industry. they are not looking at the big picture and now a days the inter reaction on M/H forums.
Many of us are much more informed than some of the dealers, but some treat us as idiots, yourself not included in this rant.
Both us as consumers and you as M/H dealers, want the industry and the leisure activity to prosper, so lets get about trying not to be an us and them, but work together, no more selling for a one time sale, make as much as we can and to hell with the bad press.
But look at the long term goal, where the dealer makes a good profit and the repeat customer is a happy bunny. Yes, I did say repeat, this is so very important if the industry is to prosper.
I just wish your company was up in the Midlands


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## joedenise

Tell the dealer you have a holiday booked and you need a replacement mh as yours is not usable and you will charge the bill to them

joe


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## alhod

Well just look at the great debate sparked off by my little problem! 
I find it very interesting that the main point coming out of Chris' account of how warranty systems operate seems to be that no-one trusts anyone else. The dealers do not trust the customer, the customers think they are being ripped off by the dealers and saddest of all the manufacturers seem not to trust their dealers either.
No surprise that the whole industry seems to creaking at the seams! Someone needs to do a little banging together of heads (figuratively speaking of course ) to get all these people to understand they have a common interest in making the thing run smoothly for all to benefit.
And if the manufacturers do not trust their appointed dealers to run a warranty system responsibly what the hell are they doing leaving those same dealers selling to customers? 

I really appreciate what Chris has been saying as it has given a new perspective on how the industry works, or arguably doesn't! I have no experience of his dealership but have heard very good reports of them. My own dealings have been only with Chelston and I have no complaints about them.

Hopefully I can get this situation with Burstner unplugged quickly now and get on with enjoying the van we have invested in!

Alan


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## alhod

Just to give an update to those interested, I have today heard from the Buerstner agent (here in France) that they have been told by Buerstner Germany the part has to be ordered from the manufacturer and cannot give a delivery date.
This is the 21st century for heavens' sake! How difficult can it be to take a standard valve off the shelf and stick it in a Jiffy bag with the dealer's name and address on the outside? Four weeks? I don't think so.

I have asked Chelston, from whom I purchased the vehicle, to progress this and have also sent an e-mail myself direct to Buerstner Head Office in Kehl. I will be calling them tomorrow to chase this up.

Now awaiting the real proof of after-sales service from this "highly reputed" manufacturer.

Alan

:roll:


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## alhod

Just in case anyone is still losing sleep whilst waiting for the end of this saga, the replacement valve was fitted today!

:multi: nfire: :blob5: :blob6: :blob7: :blob8: 

:hello1: 

:wav: 

So that was a total wait of some eight weeks from my first visit to the Buerstner agent to report the failure.
And for the record that agent did not once telephone me - every contact made was at my instigation! If I had not called them earlier this week I guess I would still be waiting.

Anyway, now we can get on with life again - but the weather here is C**P !

Alan


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## Pusser

My brand new Burstner needed replacement seat covers from day 1. Elite apparently put in an order for them and then Chelston had a go the same first year.

Out of all the excuses the best one was, the lorry was on its way but the whole lorry has disappeared and it had my seat covers on.  

Three times I had to take photos of the seats as Burster said they did not make those seats. Bit weird as the seats came from direct from Burstner to Elite and then to me. They wanted photos to prove they were or were not Burstner seats.

In year 3 I phoned up once again Burstner in Germany and luckily spoke to an Englishman who worked there. 

I did get them two weeks after I had sold the motor home to John Cross who I thought could have sent me an email thanking me.

But don't let this put you off. It seems pretty much par for the course in the industry and was a major contributory factor in me getting rid of my motor home fetish once and for all.

When you buy a motorhome you also buy a quantity of bull sh*t. The only thing you will ever get without digging into your wallet.


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