# Weight Implications



## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

Can the peeps who understand these things explain to me the implications of a van rated as gross 3850kg instead of my previous 3500kg please?


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## iconnor (Nov 27, 2007)

Better payload but you need a C1 licence (check the bottom line of your plastic card).
Interestingly there seem to be a lot of 3500 kg weight restrictions on bridges/roads on the Continent, to be honest I ignore them (blush) but you could get caught and done for it.


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

twinky said:


> Can the peeps who understand these things explain to me the implications of a van rated as gross 3850kg instead of my previous 3500kg please?


The speed limits are lower

Single Carriageway 50 mph
Dual Carriageway 60 mph
Motorways 70mph

Derek


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

camper69 said:


> twinky said:
> 
> 
> > Can the peeps who understand these things explain to me the implications of a van rated as gross 3850kg instead of my previous 3500kg please?
> ...


I don't think that is so if the unladen weight is less than 3050kg.


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

You subtract the Kerb weight from the Gross weight, what is left is the payload.
This payload has to be distributed over the front and rear axle as indicated on the van vin plate.

Charlie


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

Will the vehicle plate be altered to show 3850kg?

Any disadvantages apart from the licence issue?

Cheers


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## iconnor (Nov 27, 2007)

My Benimar was originally 3500, air suspension added and uprated to 4100, then down graded to 3850 (before I got it I may add!).
I have 3850 on the Reg document, an original vin plate 3500 and a new sticker from the people who rated it at 3850.
If you need to know who rates them let me know and I will go and look at the sticker tonight.


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

It is my understanding if it says 3.5T on the sign then it is for safety ie the road has a bridge that cannot handle any more than this safely.

However if it says 3.5T on the background of a lorry then it applies to commercial vehicles only...

To drive over 3.5T requires a C1 license. If you passed your test prior to January 1997 you are likely to already have this but please check.

Karl


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

camper69 said:


> twinky said:
> 
> 
> > Can the peeps who understand these things explain to me the implications of a van rated as gross 3850kg instead of my previous 3500kg please?
> ...


I am afraid it is. Once the maximum weight is over 3500Kg then you have to stick to the lower limits.

Derek


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Derek,
Isn't the weight limit 3050 for the lower speed limits not 3500?

Karl


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## camper69 (Aug 30, 2007)

From my recollection 

If your motorhome is under 3050Kg unladen but has a max plated weight of 3500Kg then the limits are the same as cars.

Once the max plated weight is over 3500Kg then the lower limits apply.

If anyone knows differently please chip in.

Derek


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

I do believe you are correct Derek.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

www.motorhomefacts.com/modules/Forums/attach_mod/files/vehicle_speed_limits_646.jpg
The table makes no reference to 3500kg MGVW as a threshold for speed limits for motorhomes only that 3050kg unladen then car speed limits apply. For vehicles registered as Motor Homes the only relavence to 3500kg is the class of licence you need if above or below it and nothing to do with speed limits.


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## Medallionman (Nov 26, 2005)

twinky said:


> Can the peeps who understand these things explain to me the implications of a van rated as gross 3850kg instead of my previous 3500kg please?


I think that you have to have medical once you get to age 70
Brian


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

rayc said:


> www.motorhomefacts.com/modules/Forums/attach_mod/files/vehicle_speed_limits_646.jpg
> The table makes no reference to 3500kg MGVW as a threshold for speed limits for motorhomes only that 3050kg unladen then car speed limits apply. For vehicles registered as Motor Homes the only relavence to 3500kg is the class of licence you need if above or below it and nothing to do with speed limits.


 Does PLG not come into it?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Private/Light Goods (TC11): if the vehicle has a revenue weight (GVW) of not more than 3,500kg. This would be the appropriate tax class regardless of its use. 

Private/Heavy Goods Vehicle (TC10): if the vehicle has a revenue weight exceeding 3,500kg and the vehicle is not used for the conveyance of goods or burden, for hire or reward or in connection with a trade, business or profession. 

These are tax classes for road duty purposes and are not relavent to the speed limit of vehicles registered as motor homes. Speed limits are defined in Section 86(1) and Schedule 6 Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 i.e. the table linked to.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Once over 3,500 kg MAM, the following applies:
C1 licence entitlement required (details referred to above);
Medical at age 70 in order to continue driving it;
Registration class of Private HGV which is a bit cheaper to tax than a Private LGV. (MOT is still class 4, but you will need to use a testing station that can handle the weight.)

If the unladen weight is in excess of 3,050 kg then lower speed limits apply (assuming it is under 12m in length, otherwise further restrictions apply too).
If the MAM is 3,850 kg, there is a good chance that the unladen weight will exceed 3,050 but check with the manufacturer.
If so then max speeds of 50mph on single carriage-way, 60mph on dual-carriageway and 70mph on M-ways.


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## ShinyFiat (Jun 2, 2009)

*derek*

plg is upto 3.5t for m/home i believe, over that then it is classed as phg private heavy goods


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Also with C1 licenses taken up after 1997 you will need to renew your medical at 45 and every 5 years after until you hit 65 then it becomes an annual thing.

I don't know if this affects C1 grandfathered from pre 97 licenses though.

Karl


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

Passed test in 1979 so no problem about C1.


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

I am looking at 2 models.

First states mass in running order as 3010kg, second as 3130kg.

Then maximum authorised weight as 3850kg on both.

So what you are saying is that there will be speed restrictions on the second van, yes?


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

gromett said:


> Also with C1 licenses taken up after 1997 you will need to renew your medical at 45 and every 5 years after until you hit 65 then it becomes an annual thing.
> 
> I don't know if this affects C1 grandfathered from pre 97 licenses though.
> 
> Karl


It doesn't Karl, I know my ground on this one.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

twinky said:


> I am looking at 2 models.
> 
> First states mass in running order as 3010kg, second as 3130kg.
> 
> ...


no miro is not the same as kerbweight.


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

OK so is the kerbweight higher or lower than the miro weight?

And ......................oh jeez I dont care anymore :roll: .


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

derekfaeberwick said:


> It doesn't Karl, I know my ground on this one.


Can you clarify please? Are you telling me that the grandfathered C1 don't have a medical at 45 or are you telling me I am wrong on the post 97 ones?

Karl


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## 106559 (Aug 19, 2007)

If you passed your test pre 97 then you keep the right to drive 7 1/2 tonners without a medical every 5 years. I think your O.K. until you are 70. then you need medicals.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

twinky said:


> OK so is the kerbweight higher or lower than the miro weight?
> 
> And ......................oh jeez I dont care anymore :roll: .


Download Sprokits guide Here. It's not just smarties that have the answer, Sprokit does too!

D


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

twinky said:


> OK so is the kerbweight higher or lower than the miro weight?
> 
> And ......................oh jeez I dont care anymore :roll: .


Kerb weight, or unladen weight, will be LOWER than MIRO. MIRO should include: driver (75kg); electrical hook-up lead; 90% fuel; fresh water; gas cylinders; may be others but I cannot think of them right now.

The unladen weight may be specified in the technical data for the van, but more often MIRO and MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass - also referred to as MTPLM) only are given. Often, the MIRO (and UW if given) refers to the standard specification and you need to allow for this. As an example, my van has a MAM of 3,800 kg and the specified MIRO is 3,000 kg. This means that the UW will be below 3,000 and I can estimate it by deducting the weight of the things included in MIRO (above). However, I have to allow for the fact that there are non-standard fittings that will increase both UW and MIRO. In my case, a larger engine than standard, an auto-gearbox, a wind-out awning, a tow-bar, steadies, two leisure batteries instead of one, etc. I.e. things that are fixtures of the vehicle, not items that can be removed or left unfilled at will.

So the upshot of this is that I err on the side of caution and assume that my UW is above 3,050 kg. In other words, I am assuming that the weight of all the extra vehicle specification is at least 50kg more than the 'loose' fittings that are included in standard MIRO. One further thought. Remember that these additional spec. items (engine, gearbox etc.) will also increase MIRO as well as UW, thereby reducing the effective pay-load available for food, chattels, passengers and wine (on the return trip).

Hope this helps rather than serving to confuse further.

Philip


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Due to the way MH manufacturers specify the weights it would be all to easy to get it wrong and believe that the higher speed limits apply to you when in fact the lower ones do.


The specification of my MH, given as "vehicle bodyweight in running order (+/- 5%) " is 3075kg.
This is stipulated as including the driver (75kg) and 50% of fuel, water and gas tanks. 

Taking the two statements above I would think that the actual "Unladen weight" in accordance with regulations is under 3050kg.

It would be interesting how you would respond to the charge that you were exceeding the speed limit when the only specification in the handbook or specification sheet is the one above.


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