# Gaslow. Dangerous !



## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

Just getting ready to head off abroad tomorrow so i thought i would go to the Isle of Wights only calor gas sales outlet to top up my gaslow. Vectawarm, the only seller of gas on the island said sorry, not allowed to fill it up. Calor have told them it's dangerous. Anyone thinking of visiting over here should bear that in mind if they are dependant on there gaslow system.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Any idea why?


stew


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Stew

Competition, thats all :roll:


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Thats Calor Gas for you!!! 

They do not seem to like competition and loosing their captive share of the market!!!

Anyone who sells Calor Gas have been told by Calor to do this or have their right to sell Calor Gas withdrawn! A bit much I say.

If only Calor listened to their customers and brought out their own refillable cylinders then we wouldn't have to go elsewhere.

BUT even though we have filled out their survey forms telling them we find getting Gas abroad VERY DIFFICULT as we cannot exchange our calor gas bottles they do NOTHING other than offering an extra cylinder to take with us.

As gas lockers take two cylinders only then this is UNSAFE as far as I am concerned!!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!!


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Thought as much Eddie and Rita


stew


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## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

I found this out last May when i collected our new Rapido from Brownhills Newark as they fitted my Gaslow system, i expected they would fill my bottles, "OH NO" we cannot do that as we have been stopped from supplying our Gaslow customers byCalor.

It's crazy but true as they say.

Bob


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Sounds like we should all drop a line to the monopolies commission, anyone know a link


stew


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## 96783 (Nov 23, 2005)

What does Gaslow have to say about it? Do Calor apply the same rule to MTH bottles and continental ones as well?


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

We have one of those MTH bottles and strangely enough we have always had it filled at a calor depo. Although we have not used it since June


stew


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

I must have got the wrong end of the stick here. I thought one of the advantages of an integral system such as Gaslow was that you could top it up at your local service station. If this is not the case what _are_ the advantages?

Tco


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Give it a month and we will have the Calor Gas MD signing up to join.


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

whistlinggypsy said:


> I found this out last May when i collected our new Rapido from Brownhills Newark as they fitted my Gaslow system, i expected they would fill my bottles, "OH NO" we cannot do that as we have been stopped from supplying our Gaslow customers byCalor.
> 
> It's crazy but true as they say.
> 
> Bob


So how did they test it and show you how to use it properly? I know you can pressure test but the filling system still should have been shown to work.


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

If your gaslow system has an external filler... just don't say anything, for all they know its just a LPG tank or do you have to get to the gaslow bottles to open a valve or anything??


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Tco

You can. I am not supposed to fill the MTH bottle at a fuel station as it is not fixed in the vehicle. I assume on the Isle of White there isn't a fuel station that sells gas


stew


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Gaslow*



Wytonknaus said:


> whistlinggypsy said:
> 
> 
> > I found this out last May when i collected our new Rapido from Brownhills Newark as they fitted my Gaslow system, i expected they would fill my bottles, "OH NO" we cannot do that as we have been stopped from supplying our Gaslow customers byCalor.
> ...


Hi

My van was fitted with Gaslow last June. When I got the van home, I filled the Gaslow cylinders. Shortly afterwards, I discovered a leak and it was so severe, ice crystals were forming.

Here is the original thread.

Russell

Gas leak thread


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

Calor started a scare almost a year ago with a letter they sent out to petrol stations saying that they "might" not be covered by insurance if they allowed bottles to be filled. Of course the phrase "might" always carries the proviso, "almost certainly won't" but most filling stations took the line of least resistance. In our current litigous society that was all it took. As several people have already said, they don't have any problem filling fixed tanks so, if you haven't already got one, fit a filler to the outside of your van and they'll never know you've got some of those naughty cylinders on board.

Apropos of Calor - we would love to stop selling Calor on our site but we have to recognise that they have something like 90% of the camping market and, because you can't exchange one make of bottle for another, we would have next to no demand for any other make. I did investigate changing to the new BP Lite bottles but their anticipated european network has yet to materialise. This, together with the lower weight, is one massive advantage they would have over Calor. If BP had managed to deliver on the hype about being able to exchange their cylinders all over Europe when they first launched they would now have taken the market. 

Seeing the way Calor attempt to bully anyone trying to break their monopoly it will come as no surprise to know that, in my experience, they leave a lot to be desired in their dealings with their trade customers in other ways. Wrong deliveries, wrong invoices and wrong paperwork are monthly occurences. Anything - built-in tanks or refillable cylinders - that helps to break this inefficient monopoly is to be welcomed.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Gaslow*



Rapide561 said:


> Wytonknaus said:
> 
> 
> > whistlinggypsy said:
> ...


Chelston fitted my gaslow and they put 20Lts of gas in so they could test it before handing it over to me. Obviously I gotta proper job done and the bill for the gas... 

These are not just any fitters. These are Chelston Supreme Fitters.

Give Norman a ring. You know it makes sense.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

Nobody has mentioned regulations, safety, insurance and go to court at the drop of a hat.

These companies do try to maximise their income, who doesn't but there are other important factors.

The staff operating the gas outlets are limited by Health & Safety Regulations set down by experts on high and by their training. If they break these regulations then they will not be covered by insurance and will be open to court action.

Calor gas state that the H&S Regulations only allow them to fill vehicles that have been manufactured especially o use Gas or have been converted by companies specially licenced to do the conversions.

Without studying the necessary agreements we do not know whether this is true or not but it sounds likely.

Its very easy to slag off something we know absolutely nothing about.

Consider the scenario where a poorly installed set up fails at a garage, starts a huge fire with several deaths.

Headlines next day in the gutter press - "Garage acting illegally selling gas to a dangerous outfit, lets string the (insert you own expletive here) up!!"


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Pusser

_Obviously I gotta proper job done_ They must have know who you were mate - Pusser of The MHF

Sounds like they understand customer service

stew


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

djchapple said:


> Headlines next day in the gutter press - "Garage acting illegally selling gas to a dangerous outfit, lets string the (insert you own expletive here) up!!"


I agree, and there are nutters selling Calor bottle filling adaptors on ebay and advising people to hide the bottle in the boot out of the attendants view while filling .. :roll: :roll:


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

andyangyh said:


> I did investigate changing to the new BP Lite bottles but their anticipated european network has yet to materialise. This, together with the lower weight, is one massive advantage they would have over Calor. If BP had managed to deliver on the hype about being able to exchange their cylinders all over Europe when they first launched they would now have taken the market.
> 
> .


I seem to remember that Calor were showing a lightweight bottle on their stand at the NEC. Or had I had too many sherberts?

Tco


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

Quite right tco-they are launching the Calor Lite bottles in March-apparently, they weigh half what the current 6KG cylinders do and all come with a proper contents gauge. They will also be no more expensive and can be swapped for existing bottles at no extra charge.
I will certainly be getting some, as they are much easier to get than the BP ones and I dont need a special regulator. (Can't fit the BP to mine as it has a 50 mbar gas system and they dont make a regulator to suit.)


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi ScotJimland,I am one of the nutters that bought a filling adapter from ebay! I must add I would buy another tomorrow if I could find the seller again (disappeared) just in case I break this one :lol: Don't knock until you have tried it,if you follow the instructions I do not think it any more dangerous then filling my gas car.Indeed I would think that a propane gas bottle would be a lot stronger than a underbelly tank.The bottles are fastened into the gas locker and all I do is open the locker door and fill up(£3 as to £12 exchange)I was going to make a DIY tank & filler then found the adapter so never got round to it.I found these 
http://www.mthautogas.co.uk/light-weight.htm
that sell gas bottles with filling adapter for £80(LIGHTWEIGHT!) ----£60 if you email them on offer,thereby removing Calor non refillable bottles out of the picture :lol:These become your bottles so you can see how much gas is left and how much to fill.CALOR STATE THAT YOU CANNOT REFILL!!! FUNNY how Calor manage to refill these bottles :lol: SMOKE & MIRRORS springs to mind
terry


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

maddie said:


> Hi ScotJimland,I am one of the nutters that bought a filling adapter from ebay! I must add I would buy another tomorrow if I could find the seller again (disappeared) just in case I break this one :lol: Don't knock until you have tried it,if you follow the instructions I do not think it any more dangerous then filling my gas car.


Hi Terry

Well, I didn't call the buyers nutters, but in any case, there is no auto shut off valve, so what will happens when someone hiding in their car boot accidently over fills a bottle..? I leave it up to your imagination !


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi ScotJimland,In short they are not following instructions !!!( now these are nutters)either case the bottles stop filling when full, you shut the screw down on/off value then remove the hose so no gas escapes only your normal if unnerving sssssshhhhhh. You would have to then remove your overfilled bottle and open up the valve in a open space to waste your ovrerfill.All clearly explained in the instructions.
terry


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

Hi all
I might be missing something here, but if you fill a bottle yourself and allow the bottle to fill completely with liquid gas leaving no vapour space for thermal expansion, one sunny day you and your campsite neighbours will die . how do you ensure that you have left sufficient space for expansion?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Actually calor's monopoly goes further guess whose gas you are buying when you get a campingaz cylinder in UK? Perhaps that's why they are much more expensive in UK.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> You would have to then remove your overfilled bottle and open up the valve in a open space to waste your ovrerfill.All clearly explained in the instructions.


and you don't think the buyers of these adaptors are 'nutters'?


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I think the theme of this discussion is as follows:-
Calor sell a volatile, explosive and very dangerous product. They sell it in, or in to, containers that are checked and pressure tested at every refill, or in the case of installations subject to regular Calor inspections.

Posters here are suggesting that that particular dangerous product should be inserted into cylinders which are possibly never tested and in due course could well be many years old!

I am sure that this is Calor's attitude.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

teamsaga said:


> Hi all
> I might be missing something here, but if you fill a bottle yourself and allow the bottle to fill completely with liquid gas leaving no vapour space for thermal expansion, one sunny day you and your campsite neighbours will die . how do you ensure that you have left sufficient space for expansion?


Hi yes you are missing somthing, it tells you not to overfill-only 80%-ie in my case 3.9kg just under 8 ltrs so JUST to be on the safe side I only put 7 ltrs in.I find this no harder than changing over my gas bottles from a full to empty one and I have no pipes etc to leak just a simple screw down to shut the bottle off before removing filling nossel(v/important)
terry


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

maddie said:


> Hi yes you are missing somthing, it tells you not to overfill-only 80%-ie in my case 3.9kg just under 8 ltrs so JUST to be on the safe side I only put 7 ltrs in.I find this no harder than changing over my gas bottles from a full to empty one and I have no pipes etc to leak just a simple screw down to shut the bottle off before removing filling nossel(v/important)
> terry


Hi Terry

I'm sure you are very competent at doing this, but do you really think that Mr average jo public is competent enough to buy and use these adaptors.. ?

With all the training and experience in the world, the old adage, 
" if something can go wrong it probably will" was never truer.

This IMO is NOT a procedure that should be done on a garage forecourt by even the most experienced.. let alone the 'nutters'

This is an accident waiting to happen..


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi ScotJimland,I am not encouraging anyone to do what I have done,as I said I was one of the nutters that bought one.I am only saying/ stating my experience from buying & using one.I don't think it any more dangerous than filling the gas disco I was using, all you have to do is be sensible.Indeed if I had not got the car & filled it I do not think I would have touched this with a v/long bargpole,but at the end of the day after speaking to a calor delivery driver they fill the bottles in much the same way at there depot.It is a little un-nerving the first time but I am very aware of what could go wrong even filling the car so perhaps I ouht to move this to the bodgers post :lol: 
terry


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Terry 

Having worked at an oil refinery where Calor had a depot, I can assure you that bottle filling isn't carried out by 'nutters' with bottle adaptors .. :lol: :lol: 

I do understand where your coming from, I'm a world class bodger, (you have to be when fulltiming and moving around europe ) but I wouldn't post on a forum how to connect up a Moroccan gas bottle into an RV LPG system..
'needs must' is a great master .. but some stuff is best kept to oneself .. :wink:


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

I worked in a refinery for 30 years and have stood on top of lpg tanks 120 feet high. During training you are shown film of lpg railcars and road tankers exploding. some of you may remember the spanish road tanker (overfilled) his safety valve lifted through thermal expansion while he was at a campsite . the lpg ignited and destroyed the site. 
I would not use a petrol station that had facilities that allowed people to fill their own bottles. venting off an overfilled bottle at a fuel station
is a suicidal hobby


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I am getting a little confused here.

Are we now talking about topping up gas bottles that are normally exchanged for full ones ie Calor Propane?

Or are we talking about topping up refillable Gaslow bottles?

By the way, how does the Gaslow bottle stop filling when it is 80% full?


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

pippin said:


> I am getting a little confused here.
> 
> Are we now talking about topping up gas bottles that are normally exchanged for full ones ie Calor Propane?
> 
> ...


We are talking about ILLEGALLY filling Calor butane bottles..

I have no experience with Gaslow, as far as I know they have an auto cut off valve the same as an LPG tank , some one will correct me here if I am wrong.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Spain*



teamsaga said:


> I worked in a refinery for 30 years and have stood on top of lpg tanks 120 feet high. During training you are shown film of lpg railcars and road tankers exploding. some of you may remember the spanish road tanker (overfilled) his safety valve lifted through thermal expansion while he was at a campsite . the lpg ignited and destroyed the site.
> I would not use a petrol station that had facilities that allowed people to fill their own bottles. venting off an overfilled bottle at a fuel station
> is a suicidal hobby


Hello there,

I though that was in France?

Trev.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

I am pretty sure the tanker fire was in Spain ( but it doesn't really matter). 

What matters is that Gaslow and the like have a valve that shuts of the filling at 80% full. Ordinary exchangeable cylinders do not have this valve and filled by Calor and others using fairly sophisticated equipment to ensure that there is sufficient headspace to prevent liquid from being forced into your gas pipes. 
How anyone can fill an exchangeable cylinder to no more than 80% when they do not know how much is in it to start with? If you vent it to ensure it is empty then you introduce air, how do you purge this air and moisture you have introduced? 

How far do you travel to find somewhere safe to 'vent off' your excess if you overfill it, bearing in mind the gas will be expanding in the heat of the vehicle all the time it is overfilled?? What is the point of saving a few quid and then venting off overfill? 

As I said before these filling adapters are dangerous and may lead to even Gaslow systems being denied refilling at petrol stations.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Agree*



aultymer said:


> I am pretty sure the tanker fire was in Spain ( but it doesn't really matter).
> 
> What matters is that Gaslow and the like have a valve that shuts of the filling at 80% full. Ordinary exchangeable cylinders do not have this valve and filled by Calor and others using fairly sophisticated equipment to ensure that there is sufficient headspace to prevent liquid from being forced into your gas pipes.
> How anyone can fill an exchangeable cylinder to no more than 80% when they do not know how much is in it to start with? If you vent it to ensure it is empty then you introduce air, how do you purge this air and moisture you have introduced?
> ...


Okay,

Yes, I know where you are coming from. I have already strongly advised against the use of these fill adapters on this forum and elsewhere.

I work with Industrial gasses every day, (Nitrogen, Refrigerants and Iscobutane). I know what can happen when things go wrong. As already mentioned I have seen a couple of bottles burst, they wizzed around the ground like balloons do when you let them go. Luckily, all they did was freeze the pavement.

The only way to remove the air and moisture from the calor bottles would be to evacuate them with a Vac pump. How many users are likely to do that?.

Trev.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

*external filler*

Hi, my van has an external filler just like a gas car powered car does so that the gaslow cylinders are not seen during filling. I have never had any difficulty filling. The forecourt attendant will assume you have a fixed tank but I am aware that calor et al are against refillable cylinders, Alan


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

whistlinggypsy said:


> I found this out last May when i collected our new Rapido from Brownhills Newark as they fitted my Gaslow system, i expected they would fill my bottles, "OH NO" we cannot do that as we have been stopped from supplying our Gaslow customers byCalor.
> 
> It's crazy but true as they say.
> 
> Bob


I had my Gaslow fitted to my Adria at the beginning of Dec. 07 at Brownhills and they filled my bottles as part of the fitting and to do a gas fill test. 
Pete.


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