# Dogs And Morocco



## OurTour

In another thread about independent tours of Morocco, Detourer, an expert on entering and leaving the country stated:

"and paperwork is rather more that just the pet passport that is of course required"

I'm now trying to work out what this paperwork is as we're considering another trip over. I've checked through (EC) No 998/200 (see http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2003R0998:20090420:EN:PDF) and can't see anything required in addition to the UK Pet Passport. I emailed DEFRA who stated:

"From 1st January 2012 when animals enter the UK from unlisted third countries, such as Morocco, the following procedures must be carried out in the stated order:

1). Animal is micro-chipped

2). It is vaccinated against rabies (your pet must be vaccinated against rabies in accordance with the recommendation on the vaccine manufacturer's data sheet).

3). A blood sample is taken and sent to a European Union (EU) approved laboratory for testing. Blood sample must be drawn at least 30 days after the rabies vaccination is administered. If the required level of antibodies is reached, the animal may enter the UK 3 calendar months after the date that the sample was drawn, assuming that all other rules of the scheme are met.

Pets travelling to an unlisted third country that have been identified, vaccinated and blood sampled 30 days after vaccination and can show a positive titration result before leaving the UK (or other Member State) may re-enter the UK without having to meet the 3 month waiting period. The vaccination, blood sample and positive titration result must be recorded on the pet passport which is required to be shown on re-entry into the EU. "

We'd already checked all of this before we went into Morocco and came back into Spain. As I understand it, non-commercial pet travel intra and inter the EU zone has now been harmonized, so DEFRA's reference to the UK above would also apply to Spain.

Help us our Detourer - what's the other paperwork needed?

Cheers, Jason


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## Detourer

Hi Jason

........"Can the dog go to Morocco? Lesley....."

.........."Hi Lesley, they surely can! We had no trouble at all with Charlie, no one took a blind bit of notice he existed, not the customs, police, cafe owners, campsite owners, no one. It was great. Had to keep him on the lead though, too many chicken bones everywhere! Cheers, Jay.........."

I think you have answered your own question.........Your new post and excellent information, referring to the original question is probably more helpful now, in not leaving some thinking that armed with a Pet Passport only you can enter and exit Morocco without a care!

I think that if you are taking a beloved family pet out of the EU and returning to the UK extra care and attention is needed.......... And when does Spain [or any other EU country for that matter] abide and work to the letter of legislation?

I entered Morocco a month ago as usual and returned just a few days ago........ At the Spanish border a uniform was stopping EVERY SINGLE vehicle with a dog inside, with paperwork being checked and chip scanned... [ you said " no one took a blind bit of notice he existed, not the customs, police etc........."] which of course was true at the time.....but........

Since my last crossing a month ago the issued document from our Vet has changed. I think as from 1st April i.e. a few days ago.

It is now a triplicate and issued on behalf of the Consejo General De Espana and is called a Certifcado Veterinario De Salad [Veterinary Heath Certificate ]. I _think_ it now needs to be issued 48 hour prior to journey, but not sure.

It now contains and requires more information than the earlier version.
Interestingly the form now has the line, in Spanish AND English [why just English I wonder?].......

WARNING: In View of possible changes in thr legislation, it is advisable to consult web site http://cexan.mapaes/Modulos5/public/informatioMercados.aspx?prov=7

If I ever get the time to write the Moroccan Touring/Info Book, as you suggested, I will include the aforementioned and/or an update. Sadly it is unlikely to happen though ......... retirement will be just that, retirement after 30+ years and enjoy the home we also have in Morocco.

Anyway, may see you there..........Dog "Alice" and myself are off again with a group in the morning!

Ray

.


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## asprn

Jason,

Can you please clarify something. I've read through your website, and see that you offer advice and guidance for travellers to Morocco, including a book which you charge for:-

_"We've been asked why, and criticised for charging for the guide, so we wanted to clarify our reasons. The guide took us a long time to research and create, and we did it because we looked for something like this before we went but couldn't find it. As we said above, we're travelling on a budget, and unlike many of the retired motorhomers we meet, we don't have any form of income apart from the rent on our house back in the UK. So, we're charging a small amount to cover our costs and help keep us on the road. We also write a daily blog which contains lots of free information on our time in Morocco (24 Jan 2012 - 23 Feb 2012). The guide provides all that information and more in a concise format, so we hope you'll agree it's worth the small amount we're asking for it. We believe that the advice we've given in the book will easily save you more than it's [sic] cost when you're over in the country._

So it's clear then that you're saying you've carried out research which provides everything that travellers need. This appears to be based simply on your own travels, which - given the nature of this thread here where you have been unable to research a basic element of Morocco travel (pets) and had to shout for help from a professional - I frankly find quite disturbing.

I see that in an earlier thread - which Detourer has quoted above - you state, _We had no trouble at all with Charlie, no one took a blind bit of notice he existed, not the customs, police, cafe owners, campsite owners, no one._ That's a clear implication that travellers shouldn't worry about taking pets across the border, whereas I know that not to be true from personal experience, quite apart from obviously being a subjective and in my opinion, reckless comment. This amounts to advice which says, "Just take your pet and don't worry about it". It also rather contradicts what you claim above, that (e.g.) the book will actually save you money.

So in the interests of clarity here on this public forum, let me ask you if you will stand by the advice which you are offering - and indeed charge money for? Having read through your blog and the advice contained therein, if I'd taken some of it, I would have been in trouble.

Or is it the case that you're an enthusiastic motorhomer who is taking it as read that your own experiences amount to a qualification in advising others? There's nothing wrong with trying to be helpful, but dressing it up as semi-professional advice is dangerous and misleading.

Dougie.


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## OurTour

*Response To Dougie*

Hi Dougie

Thanks for your message. Our blog is free for all to read, and is simply a record of the trip we had. It takes us an hour a day to update, costs us far more to publish than we'll ever make back in advertising, and we clearly state on it that "All information on this site should be treated as our personal opinion only; please take no action based on this information without checking for factual accuracy, thanks!". Seems fair: we're giving the information on it away for free, and taking our time to build it, so let's put that one to one side.

As for the book, our website states: "We toured Morocco in our motorhome in early 2012. We're not experts on the country, or on touring in a motorhome. We're just a couple, and their dog, who really wanted to go there, but as we're travelling on a budget we couldn't justify the cost of an organised tour. We spent many hours on the internet researching, and from the forums and blogs we learned that you don't need to pay a fortune, you can do it on your own - so we did."

It's a record of our travels and our experience. We don't claim anywhere to be experts at anything.

Coming onto the dog point, we were really nervous about taking our dog to Morocco so carefully researched beforehand whether we'd be able to get him back into Spain. In our research I found no indication that anything more than the UK import restrictions for pet dogs would be required to bring the animal back into Spain (described in the above post). Detourer indicated I was wrong in this respect and hence I obviously had a duty of care to check my facts. I'm unable to open the link Detourer sent in order to check the source information (Detourer: could you check the link please). For the time being I stand by what's in the guide.

Have you read the book? It's normal practice for someone to read the document they're being critical of before publicly making statements about its factual accuracy?

Best regards, Jason


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## aultymer

Thanks for the heads up on potentially costly info Dougie.
You don't have to read the Qur'an to know it causes problems!


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## asprn

*Re: Response To Dougie*

Jason,

Of course I've read the book, otherwise how could I comment on it?

Despite your pointing out the mild disclaimer on your site, the fact remains that since joining this public forum very recently, you've expressed opinions which in my opinion are foolhardy and sometimes reckless. You're not the first in the world to to so on a public forum, but when you take it further by offering written advice, it appears to the less discerning as semi-professional.

*Wildcamping in Spain*
_"The police ask them to move every now an again, but it is just a game really._
Tell that to the person who thinks, "Ah, that's all right then. We'll do that" and get fined a few hundred Euros.

*Travelling in Morocco*
_There's not much guidance available in English so we put together a book, have a look at www. for details_
There is good safe professional guidance available, which does not unfortunately describe your book.

*Legal entry requirement for pets*
_Hi. they surely can! We had no trouble at all with Charlie, no one took a blind bit of notice he existed, not the customs, police, cafe owners, campsite owners, no one_
I've already referred to this. It's ridiculous.

*Filling a gas tank*
_We don't have gaslow, we have an ancient single tank which which is unbranded. It makes a god awful squealing noise when it's about full. When it's been filled by an attendant, they don't flinch, so we figure that must be normal! We turn the bottle off during filling but I've no idea whether you need to_
Absolutely astonishing, and is a perfect example of why I'm challenging the advice - and its quality - you're giving.

*Experience*
_We only did it the once, so of course only got the one trip's worth of experience....It's a record of our travels and our experience. We don't claim anywhere to be experts at anything_
Exactly right. Neither am I apart from the professional area of my life for which I got paid to be one. That's probably why I can see when someone crosses the line between their own subjective opinions about their travels and elevates them to apparently-reliable advice, whether intentionally or not.

If you were writing something to effect of, "We took our dog to Morocco and no-one was in the least bit interested. We're not sure if this is representative of what normally happens, but it was certainly our experience", that could never be construed as advice. My suggestion is that you carefully consider the way in which you're presenting your travels, because you're presenting yourself as semi-authoritative, which you clearly are not.

Dougie.


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## Detourer

.
There is no doubt at all that the blogs and postings regarding Morocco are entertaining, informative, helpful and in general accurate. However, I will admit that at times I cringe and roll my eyes.

Morocco is a rapidly moving [Forward?] Third World Country. I visit with groups almost every month as well as having a second home there. The changes that are taking place are important and of course necessary but can catch the infrequent visitor out.

Border regulations and procedures constantly change, mostly at the whim of the uniforms stationed there, but sometimes through legislation. Required documentation, insurance for example, is required on a certain day or month but not the next. The until recent lax traffic laws are now being rigorously enforced, motorway tolls have on some sections seen a 50% - 75% increase in recent months. Etc etc etc....

Responding recently to a question about crossing speed and ease someone said, on another forum, that the Algeciras - Tangier route was the shortest, cheapest and fastest...wrong on all counts.

Mostly small points but accumulated and presented as informed they can be at best inconvenient, at worst expensive ........ or in the case of an impounded pet, heartbreaking!

Regarding ferries........ We often hear on blogs about the "Lidl" ticket dealer, and on your blog Jason you actually show your ticket issued by him. I know Carlos very well, indeed a friend ........ but has anyone thought why his tickets would be, at times, 30% -50% less than true cost. The clue is, as your picture shows...... the crudely blanked out total cost. Concessionary Residents tickets? Military Personnel Tickets? Day returns? Whatever ........ they are not valid motorhome tickets and may have a face value of less than 50-euro return. Mostly the check-in staff don´t seem to care, [there is no real procedure anyway] but I have personally seen frantic arguments at the return check-in that always result in a huge cost of a one-way return ticket. Of course those caught out never post that information, probably because the response would be predictable. Your take your chance but ill-informed advice however dressed-up is unhelpful and can be potentially expensive.

Blogs are great, I love reading them but I do wonder why at times [not you Jason] they are presented as anti-tour group....... Like I care. Very recently I had a scathing email from an independent traveller telling me how they managed without our Guidance and Assistance, great....... but they didn´t remember that they had been writing to us for info for over a year............. But what annoyed me was the part of their blog that told of a fantastic High Atlas crossing in January, that they wouldn´t have done with a "Group", on a piste and solo, via a particular route that I knew to have been closed due to snow and rockfall for months, and still is.....Why tell lies?....Perhaps to impress when they probably spent the month on the beach near Agadir....... Whatever the reason for writing in the blog, it is dangerous , stupid and pointless information.

Although we have cut back posting on here many on MHF will know we at Desert Detours have no problem at all in passing on information and assistance..........except thanks to the member, travelling solo, who contacted us last year urgently needing a window screen for their Hymer they had crashed....... We found one and had it delivered to Morocco.......It´s still there!

Anyway I ramble..........Dogs......... and this topic has generated about a dozen emails and a call to our office so far!.........

I am not prepared to take any risk with my travel companion.

Whatever the rules and regs I KNOW from personal experience that interpretation and requirements can, and often are, at the whim of the uniform posted at the border for the day.

I travelled for many years on a Pet Passport [I mean the various dogs did] until I was stopped one evening and asked for the additional document......that in ignorance I didn´t have. Border control knew both me and the dog [Sidney at the time] very well and waived us back into Spain.

Our VET is extremely clued with the requirements and whims and I take no chances by having Alice checked and certificated EVERY month [30euro] and in fact take our clients with dogs there pre-trip...... we have client dogs on almost every tour.

I am not clued regarding the Euro-UK aspect but l will fit into whatever the Spain - Morocco requirements may be.

Anyway....must finish loading........

..


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## asprn

Great post Ray, and covers exactly what I've tried to say but with much experience.

Thanks,

Dougie.


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## OurTour

Ray: many thanks for the advice. We've had conflicting advice from vets in various countries in the past (not on this subject). Not easy to make a judgement call, but we'll take your advice and make sure we call into a vets in Algeciras and get the latest info before we head over the water. 

Dougie: as Julie and I travel, we are learning lots of important lessons. We are trying to stretch ourselves, not simply with the places we visit and people we meet, but also seeing if we can push our boundaries, writing and publishing material independently (I worked as an author for 6 years, but always for someone else). We've learned an awful lot from putting this book together, which I'm sorry but I don't believe you have read it as I see no reference to its content in your post. Not least would be the lesson to ignore the criticism of those who sit on the sidelines pulling apart work they have never read. A few people have done this, and we were initially hurt and confused. The book content is entirely valid to the best of my knowledge. 

Feel free to write a ranting diatribe in response. We won't ever read it as my short time with MHF is over. We're loving our travels and we've a responsibility to our family and friends to squeeze every ounce of enjoyment from them. That means no more listening to Dougie. 

We wish you well with your travels, Jay 

P.S. Apologies for typos, I'm typing this on the phone.


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## asprn

OurTour said:


> ...I don't believe you have read it as I see no reference to its content in your post


Perfect thinking man's response: "You're a liar". :lol:



OurTour said:


> Feel free to write a ranting diatribe in response. We won't ever read it as my short time with MHF is over


Bye then.

Dougie.


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## grizzlyj

There seems to be a wide range of good, published guides in German at least, but not a great deal in English 

Until someone steps up and fills that gap, blogs and websites are the only place I know of to obtain any info on camper trips to Morocco. Chris Scotts guide is good but only mildly relevant, Vicarious covers one aspect fairly well, but overall and in detail? I could pay for a tour, but they wouldn't go where I wanted or at the speed I went at.

How carefully should info (opinions?) on a nice cheap blog be presented? Or does the £5 make all the difference?

I don't know how "I obviously had a duty of care" tallies with "our personal opinion only; please take no action based on this", but that doesn't that mean the £5 might still be worth it to an open mind?

All O/T 

Jason

A different one


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## flyingscotsman

Hi All,
After reading the follow up posts to "OurTour" by Jason

I'm still unclear whether I would be risking getting Bobby(my dog) stuck in quarantine limbo or worse if i go into Morocco and run into problems based on his pet passport when coming back into Spain.

He is chipped since 6th Jan 2011, had his rabies and all other relevant shots are up to date. though he will be due a booster rabies soon I've travelled before in the EU with no problems but never out of EU ie into Morocco and back.

The issue I have is based on the time span shown which is shown in the pet passport from injection to reading the Titre

In my case Bobby was vaccinated on the 6th January sample taken on the 26th of Jan and Vet stamped passport on 10th Feb saying result was equal to or greater than the 0.5iu/ml

As far as I understood he was then ok on his rabies shots. According to my Vet that was the normal protocol and practice then . ..but as you'll see from extract below and other posts there must be a "THIRTY day ,30" wait between inj and the reading.

SO the question is "Under the present legislation which governs movement of dogs out of Morocco is my dog compliant with them?"

Ronnie and an anxious Bobby

PS We are heading down in January

Posted by Jason in OurTour

1). Animal is micro-chipped 


2). It is vaccinated against rabies (your pet must be vaccinated against rabies in accordance with the recommendation on the vaccine manufacturer’s data sheet). 

3). A blood sample is taken and sent to a European Union (EU) approved laboratory for testing. Blood sample must be drawn at least 30 days after the rabies vaccination is administered. If the required level of antibodies is reached, the animal may enter the UK 3 calendar months after the date that the sample was drawn, assuming that all other rules of the scheme are met. 

Pets travelling to an unlisted third country that have been identified, vaccinated and blood sampled 30 days after vaccination and can show a positive titration result before leaving the UK (or other Member State) may re-enter the UK without having to meet the 3 month waiting period. The vaccination, blood sample and positive titration result must be recorded on the pet passport which is required to be shown on re-entry into the EU. "


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## Grizzly

flyingscotsman said:


> I'm still unclear whether I would be risking getting Bobby(my dog) stuck in quarantine limbo or worse if i go into Morocco and run into problems based on his pet passport when coming back into Spain
> 
> "


I'm sure Ray will be on here to clarify the situation but meanwhile you might have missed this:

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_35500.shtml

We were on the DD tour in September and I understood Ray ( and Alice, dog) had to return to Spain via Tangier rather than Ceuta because of a rabies outbreak in Ceuta.

The article says the regulations apply for 6 months from August so January 2013 will be within this period.

G


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## Easyriders

The vet we saw in Portugal recently told us that a couple of years ago, some idiot Frenchman took an unvaccinated dog to Morocco.

He then travelled back through Spain, Portugal and France. Back in France, the symptoms of Rabies appeared in the dog. Until then, France, Spain and Portugal were rabies free; hopefully, they are now rabies free again.

The French were livid, and considered prison for the man.

It's not surprising, then, that the UK and other countries in Europe are very careful about animals entering from Morocco. There is no cure for rabies.


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## Rankins

Grizzly said:


> We were on the DD tour in September and I understood Ray ( and Alice, dog) had to return to Spain via Tangier rather than Ceuta because of a rabies outbreak in Ceuta.


It's a shame that it cannot be verified as fact and not just an understanding as it would clarify the situation and allow people to plan ahead.


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## Grizzly

Rankins said:


> Grizzly said:
> 
> 
> 
> We were on the DD tour in September and I understood Ray ( and Alice, dog) had to return to Spain via Tangier rather than Ceuta because of a rabies outbreak in Ceuta.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame that it cannot be verified as fact and not just an understanding as it would clarify the situation and allow people to plan ahead.
Click to expand...

I can't think I could have made it clearer !

If you read the link I attached to my post you will see that the Ceuta rabies outbreak is fact and the consequences of a dog attempting to leave Morocco for Spain are clearly stated. There are other official sources for the information, which I'm sure the OP will use to verify them. They will then be able to make up their ouwn minds.

I cannot put my hand on heart and swear to the fact that Ray and Alice were going home via Tanger as we stayed on in Morocco after the tour. That was my belief at the time however and i can see no reason to alter that .

Frankly I don't see your problem !

G


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## Rankins

My problem as you put it.....



Grizzly said:


> which I'm sure the OP will use to verify them. They will then be able to make up their ouwn minds.


This forum isn't just for the OP alone, it is for everyone who has an interest in the subject, including myself who is currently in Morocco.



Grizzly said:


> I cannot put my hand on heart and swear to the fact that Ray and Alice were going home via Tanger as we stayed on in Morocco after the tour. That was my belief at the time however and i can see no reason to alter that


Exactly, did they go home via Ceuta with the tour he was leading or did they leave from Tangier? I and I'm sure other readers would like to know for a fact which was used as we may alter our travel plans.


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## Grizzly

Rankins said:


> Exactly, did they go home via Ceuta with the tour he was leading or did they leave from Tangier? I and I'm sure other readers would like to know for a fact which was used as we may alter our travel plans.


*

Frankly it seems to me irrelevant whether they went home from Tangier or Ceuta. The facts are -from the link:

1. Spain's North African enclave of Ceuta has announced an outbreak of rabies, and has imposed a six month ban on dogs leaving the town w.e.f mid August 2012.

2.If the dog owners want to take their animals to Spain from Ceuta, they will have to obtain 'previous authorisation' from the Veterinary Services.

3.. Border controls on animals are to be increased at the Morocco border and in the port, and there will be more documental controls on dogs.

It seemed to me that anyone with a dog, entering or proposing to leave Morocco- see OP's original question- would wish to know this so they could a) clarify the situation with regard to " previous authorisation" and b) possible revise their port of entry so as not to be involved in obtaining extra paperwork of "documental controls".

Like the OP you, or anyone else who is interested, can do all of the above and make sure, if you do try to leave Morocco with your dog, you have all the necessary paperwork in place.

I was trying to be helpful, knowing that the situation existed having been with Ray and Steve in September, and point it out to others who might be involved. Silly me !

It surprises me you see fit to attack me for this but I guess one has to put up with this sort of aggro on a public forum...though, frankly, not usually on MHF.

G*


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## Rankins

Grizzly said:


> Rankins said:
> 
> 
> 
> It surprises me you see fit to attack me for this but I guess one has to put up with this sort of aggro on a public forum...though, frankly, not usually on MHF.
> 
> G
> 
> 
> 
> Attack you???? Are you being serious?
> 
> I was asking for a factual answer not an understanding which is what you stated. There is a huge difference between the two, one is helpful, the other is as useful as a rumour.
Click to expand...


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## Grizzly

Rankins said:


> I was asking for a factual answer not an understanding which is what you stated. There is a huge difference between the two, one is helpful, the other is as useful as a rumour.


Strange then that you should do the same thing today, 12.26pm, in the topic about Propane in Morocco.

I quote your post:

_Just bought a gas bottle here for 130dirhams for the full bottle and 30 dirhams for the regulator. The exchange rate we got was 13.51 dirhams to the pound. We got the gas at the Afriquua chain of garages.

*We are led to believe that to exchange the bottle will be about 40 dirhams. * _

:wink:

G


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## grizzlyj

Rankins said:


> My problem ....................did they go home via Ceuta with the tour he was leading or did they leave from Tangier? I and I'm sure other readers would like to know for a fact which was used as we may alter our travel plans.


*

You're aware of the Personal Message system? Ask him perhaps?*


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## oly

We didn't take our dog. We boarded him in Portugal. We are pleased we didn't take him. Dogs are accepted but not respected in Morocco. There are dogs, friendly but wild all over the place even in the towns, the authorities just ignore and do nothing to limit the breeding. The poor things have no owners. Very sad!
Q=Would I take my dog?
A=No No No.


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