# New test for C1 licence (3.5t +)



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm not sure if this has been covered before, and a search didn't find it but it seems there is to be a new C1 test for those who only want to go over 3.5t on their motorhome, and not have to take the full monty C1 test.

Details here


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## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

I heard talk of it and seen mention on forums.
Good sensible move, looks like it's going go happen then....


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

I can't see it will save much time and I doubt it will save any money a s the training companies will see it as another potential earner.
The drivers hours etc are only a small part of the theory side of the test, the driving will be just the same and to be honest if I had to take the test I would probably do the full monty just in case I needed it for a future job.
James


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

You still have that option, but we won't know the costs until it comes into force, but not everyone needs the full C1, and of course it will be less daunting for some as the rest is not needed, and frankly should be a paper exercise anyway, as I can drive my 3.5t van for years, but if I opt for the paper upgrade to 3.85t, I suddenly have to take another test, barking mad system, and in great need of looking at.


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## blongs (Jan 12, 2009)

Sounds good to me, I don't have any MH upgrade plans at the moment but this route is the one I would go down rather than a full commercial style licence.

Ben


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

If it goes true to modern form, it'll cost twice the price for half as much, you know like mars bars and fish fingers, and if I ever saw a fish with fingers, no way would I eat it/them.


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## alphadee (May 10, 2009)

Do you ever use moth balls ?


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

wonder if it will cover a driver who is over 70 years and not claimed his C1 on the first renewal. to enable to go up to say 4.5 t.

cabby


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## kevjeff (Nov 3, 2012)

hi all at the moment all new drivers have to pass hazard perception and theory to driver ( c1 ) and cat (c ) if you passed after 1997 and you need a medical as well as a new driver you have to pass 4 tests now. new driver cpc 2 more tests that's the law if you do not pass all 4 you can not drive at all so as a new driver it will cost you about £1500


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I wanted to do the CPC course, and a friend loaned me the books, no chance of of me getting an Operator's Licence, so I snuck around it and got a 3.5t curtain sider + a 2t matching trailer, and could carry almost as much as a 7.5t even though in theory I was 2t lighter, the trailer could be fork lifted into the truck so no tacho on return journeys unless I had a back load.


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

Training for the new restricted licence will not cover UK and Continental goods regulations or tachograph regulations. If you can drive an under 3500kg you should be able to pass the under 7500kg restricted.

I currently have a restricted D1 licence because my eyes do not reach the higher standard for commercial driving. This is marked NFHR (not for hire or reward). I presume the same will apply to the restricted C1.

The medical is no problem and if you feel you cannot pass the medical you shouldn't be driving anyway. Yes, it cost money every 3 years but you have the certainty that you meet the minimum health standards.


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

One of the few benefits of being old!   

I've got full C1/C1E which takes me to 12500kg with trailer, and D1/D1E which is the minibus version (not for hire or reward)

Peter


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## RichardD (Sep 14, 2009)

Do you think you will only be able to get this new C1 licence through an authorised trainer provider or could I get my son to a test privately by gaining experience using L plates?

Richard


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I would think it would be the very same people who do it now, but just with less theory, the driving will be the same.

My query would be, can you take it in a Motorhome IE your own, As I think the current test uses a flat bed 7.5t truck, which is actually simpler to drive due to the all round vision, width is practically the same at 8 feet, lengths will vary depending on where you live I suspect and what they have in at the time.

I think finding an automatic might be difficult as they assume you can drive a proper car, and although there are auto 7.5t trucks now, they tend to use older more basic ones for teaching so you don't break them.

It might be worth someone who needs to take the test ringing one of the C1 driving schools to see if they know more.


It should be interesting to watch the instructors as they are used to training men who want to do this for a living not Barbie in her high heels who wants to do it for two weeks a year, just a thought.

No disrespect intended to Barbies, other dolls are available.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I can think of a few more areas where there might be complications in making the test appropriate for people wishing to only drive a van based MH, for example

Will they be tested on the theory and use of air brakes, including safe operation of the emergency pressure release?

Will loading and securing of load be included?

The requirement to use AdBlue to maintain emission standards?

If not will they still be entitled to drive a Iveco 7.5t based MH?

It could produce a can of worms.

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Looking further afield on this subject, it appears that an entirely new category of 'C1 97' is being proposed, that will separate the Motorhome driver from the Truck driver as far as tests and vehicles are concerned.

This you are not taking a 'relaxed' test, but a test that will enable you to drive only a Motorhome at the higher weight and not a truck.

QUOTE:

"Motorhome drivers facing the prospect of sitting a commercial vehicle test to get their C1 entitlement to drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes will welcome news that the test is set to be relaxed.
Current C1 category regulations mean people who passed their test after 1 January 1997 can only drive a vehicle weighing over 3.5 tonnes if they pass an additional theory and practical test. These tests involve elements relevant only to commercial vehicles, such as understanding the use of tachometers and driver hour regulations, yet drivers must still pass these elements even if they want to only drive a motorhome over 3.5 tonnes.

Following lobbying by the European Caravan Federation (ECF), the European Commission published Directive 2012/36EU in November 2012, which introduces an addition to the C1 category: C1 97.

Under the new C1 97 category, motorhome divers taking the tests will no longer be required to demonstrate knowledge of legislation and equipment that is only applicable to professional drivers, such as the digital tachograph, rules on driving hours and rest periods, or rules for the national/international carriage of goods or passengers.

However, although the new C1 97 category goes some way to accommodate the needs of motorhome drivers, the ECF still feels more is needed.

Under the Directive, EU countries must comply by 31 December 2013.

In the UK, the National Caravan Council said it is still “actively engaged” with the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) and DVLA, and hopes to issue an update on the UK’s implementation soon."

UNQUOTE

Peter


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

I would think and hope the driving part will be no different to the current test, at the end of the day a "barbie" (not my words) on her 2 weeks holiday can kill someone just as easily as a commercial driver in the same 2 weeks, probably more as she won't have to stick to drivers hours.
I would guess that the theory test will be the only alteration they will make.

James


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Even if the change is only to the theory test, does not the existing C1 theory test include knowledge or airbrake systems?(I do not know)

Kev asked the question as to whether the test could be taken on one's own MH. If the requirements for the vehicle to be up to current 7.5t production standards I do not know of any MH which could meet current the standards for side-view and front-view mirrors.

I think the whole problem would be better resolved by upping the weight categorisation for licences for van-based vehicles, which are already authorised to weights above 3.5t but do not have to comply with all the rules for 7.5t chassis/trucks - unless I am wrong :roll:

If one buys a 7.5t chassis/cab converted to a MH, does it have to comply with all commercial vehicle regulations, and if not, how do the authorities know whether it will/not be used for commercial purpose, e.g. as Listerdiesel does?

[Peter, not suggesting you are illegal]

Earlier I suggested it could be a can of worms - please edit to 'barrel' of worms

Does anyone in the Commission in Brussels have a 'C' or 'C1' licence? I wonder.

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

A converted 7.5T truck chassis with a motorhome body still has to conform to Construction & Use Regulations, which cover ALL vehicles, not just trucks etc.

Also, it would have to be 'incapable of carrying a load for the purposes of hire & reward', or something along those lines, so that it couldn't be used commercially.

As far as the C1/C1E test goes, and the C1 97 group, I guess that there will be a move towards a combined test for both groups, you would just miss out those parts that were specific to truck/hire & reward etc.

Peter


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## kenny (Jun 4, 2005)

*licences*

the way i read it it is for the over 70 with a motorhome over 3.5 t, why should we have to go through the the same test has someone who drives for a living we are not on the road 5days working and it shoud be for that if you do not drive for payment you get a diffrent licence at 70 kenny


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

listerdiesel said:


> A converted 7.5T truck chassis with a motorhome body still has to conform to Construction & Use Regulations, which cover ALL vehicles, not just trucks etc.
> 
> Also, it would have to be 'incapable of carrying a load for the purposes of hire & reward', or something along those lines, so that it couldn't be used commercially.
> 
> ...


Peter

I am not challenging you, as your knowledge and information is very good.

Are the Construction and Use Regulations different for van-based chassis, which can be rated for over 3.5t, from those for truck-based chassis for up to 7.5t?

The reason I ask is that I have not seen recently built MHs just over 3.5t conforming to the new mirror regulations for 7.5t trucks.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> listerdiesel said:
> 
> 
> > A converted 7.5T truck chassis with a motorhome body still has to conform to Construction & Use Regulations, which cover ALL vehicles, not just trucks etc.
> ...


Not being an expert Geoff, could it be to do with the build date of the base vehicle, as they do buy in bulk and they sit for a while until orders come in.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Geoff
Usually the regulations apply to the date of type approval not date of manufacture so vehicles that have been in production for a while dont necessarily confirm to the latest regulations, for example many cars are still produced without daytime running lights even though regs say new vehicles must have them as the particular model was type approved before the regs came into force.
May be this is the answer to your question?
James


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > listerdiesel said:
> ...


Kev

I did refer to 'recently built' - the mirror regs have been in for a while(5 years?) None of the brochures seem to show,for example the extra nearside downward looking one.

Maybe, and I do not know, if one buys a vehicle, whether van or MH, which is plated at 3500kg and subsequently upgrades it to say 4000kg the mirrors should be upgraded also.

Or is this one of the reasons why they are sold with 3500kg plates, which pass the Construction and Use criteria and that subsequent changes are not the manufacturers' responsibility?

I hope somebody will come along to help us on these points.

Geoff


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm in 'Headless Chicken' mode with son's defender MOT at 15.30 and I'm trying to get our second display engine ready for Barleylands on the weekend, so excuse my lack of response.

Some of the answers above cover the main points, but motorhomes with a fixed coachbuilt body have to conform with C&U for that specific vehicle group, so it may well be that while trucks have the extra kerb mirror, M/H's wouldn't.

The issue with C&U is that it is slowly coming into line with EC reg's, but there are still lots of anomalies in there, as we found out when we built the trailer.

Peter


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

*Driving licences*

Have we had anymore updates about this new licence C1 97, for motorhomes up to 7.5t yet. The EU states we should be implementing by the 31st December 2013. or did I read this incorrectly.I have found nothing on the DVLA web site

cabby


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

We may have to wait until December, when it becomes a topic of interest again.

Alant


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It might help if this thread was combined with the original thread by one of the helpers, then we don't have to have yet another subject with a lot of different threads, it'll be easier to follow nad all the links are in it to other info

No disrespect intended to Cabby it took some finding again.

I've not seen any new info yet though.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

None taken, as I did look. yes moving it would be good.

cabby





site helper note - merged into previous thread


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