# How long should tyres last?



## redkite93 (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi all,
our left front tyre is 2 years old and has done 6500 miles, and has developed a crack/split all the way around the deep outer tread. Its in the garage for a new one but wondered if this was normal or was it a faulty one??
any thoughts be appreciated as always
Ruth:smile2::smile2:


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Defo should last MUCH longer than 2 years or 6500 miles. 

Most MH owners have to replace tyres due to them running out of "life". Most manufacturers say they should be changed after 5 years due to the compound deteriorating (loads of threads on this very subject)

Andy


----------



## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Would be good to know what make either to comment or avoid........................ Lucky Star Magic Tyres are different to Michelin...............well at least I hope they are.


----------



## redkite93 (Dec 29, 2010)

began with a C..... Sorry i cant remember as they are now in the garage


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If they are not rated as Motorhome tyres (CP Rating) then the side walls are not as thikly uilt and the life and use of a MH may lead to such a breakdown.

I was recently advised about this due to the strict way the Frenh interpret the EU rules (the UK does not), if I was found with "van" tyres NOT CP rated then my insurance would be invalid and it would be an illegal act.....

OK that is France, but perhaps the underlying reason explained above may make sense.....

The CP rating requires a thicker, touher side-wall capable of withstanding the sort of abuse MH are expected to receive; full load running, high mileage in short time, then weeks sat still perhaps in the sun - that is the expectation, how true it is would be debatable BUT it has lead to the French view of the EU Law. The UK does not act so stringently and many MH users swear by tyres designed for white vans, so be it, but not in France......


----------



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

A bit of lateral thinking based on penquin's post. Members are always concerned about getting recently manufactured camper tyres. I wonder if it is the case that a bigger turnover of these tyres in France would make it a better likelihood that recent tyres could be obtained when touring France.

Perhaps there is a price difference that would make this impracticle. Perhaps, Penquin, you could comment on this thought.

Davy


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

redkite93 said:


> Hi all,
> our left front tyre is 2 years old and has done 6500 miles, and has developed a crack/split all the way around the deep outer tread. Its in the garage for a new one but wondered if this was normal or was it a faulty one??
> any thoughts be appreciated as always
> Ruth:smile2::smile2:


Ruth

Do you use your MH regularly or is it left for long periods of time with the 6500 miles done in one big hit?

As said it shouldn't happen at that age but if it was left for a long time perhaps? Or left with an incorrect pressure?

Grasping at straws really...

Graham :serious:


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Penquin said:


> I was recently advised about this due to the strict way the Frenh interpret the EU rules (the UK does not), if I was found with "van" tyres NOT CP rated then my insurance would be invalid and it would be an illegal act.....


Even on Ford or Mercedes based units which do not have CP tyres as supplied and as per the CofC?


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If it is listed as a Camping Car I do know how that would be done, or how a French built version would be equipped from new.

I can only put down what I was told by the rep from Dunlop/Goodyear who do not make CP tyres so IMO would be regarded as independent and hopefully, free from bias.

Dave


----------



## trek (May 1, 2005)

Take some photos and email it to the tyre manufacturers customer service or technical dept.


If it is a fault they will give you an allowance against a new one 


Are the othe tyres on the vehicle the same make / type ? Are these ok ?


Otherwise take it to a good tyre dealer and they could send it off to to the manufacturer to get it checked


----------



## trek (May 1, 2005)

From what i have been reading about CP or camping tyres is that they have been produced because owners overload their campers beyond the rating of the tyre ( and the payload of the camper) & may been introduced as a result of accident analysis 

So in effect a CP tyre at say 108 rating is actually rated to carry a higher load but it wont say that anywhere , As long as you have the correct load and speed rating on your tyres and dont overload the tyres then this all should be ok 


Interestingly a 10ply cannot be called a CP tyre yet it would have a higher load rating than a 8ply CP tyre !

( sorry Penguin I can not be convinced about the French ruling that you have mentioned regarding CP tyres - though i wouldnt want to argue with a Gendarme over the issue)


----------



## redkite93 (Dec 29, 2010)

we do leave it for a long period and then treat the poor thing badly.......... i have taken pics and the garage has since rung to say we can try to claim.


----------



## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi

i would contact there technical department about the cracks

i got 75% back on mine at 5 years old mine also started with a c

purchased new tyres and had them sent back under warranty 

barry


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

trek said:


> sorry Penguin I can not be convinced about the French ruling that you have mentioned regarding CP tyres - though i wouldnt want to argue with a Gendarme over the issue


If you read my post again, you will quickly discover that your level of being convinced is not in consideration of my opinion but comes from the Technical Dept. of Dunlop and Goodyear tyres...........

Such a thought process from the average Gendarme would not surprise me since Napoleonic Law gives permission to DO something, unlike UK Law which stops you doing it......

If the Gendarmes wanted to be awkward or felt that the person they were talking to was being argumentative or stroppy then such a course of action would come as little surprise. And it's that point about how you would hold a discussion with a Gendarme if needed that is the crucial point.

BUT, AFAIK if a vehicle is legal in it's country of registration then it is legally allowed to be used in other members of the EU (while we remain a member) without necessarily fulfiling all of the requirements for that country, so a UK registered MH is unlikely to be pulled up and it is VERY unlikely that you would be expected to have such a discussion with a Gendarme.

We however, are registered in France on our MH, not the UK so we have to comply with the French interpretation of the EU Laws and if our CT station points out that we are not allowed to have van tyres or tyres of different manufacturers on the same axle, I am not in a position to argue and would not want to.

Arguing is unlikely to achieve a good outcome, so why try? Simply comply with using tyres marked CP, as our MH was orginally supplied with. I do agree that the situation as regards 10 ply tyres seems odd to say the least, maybe there is something else that dictates that outcome, or maybe the main manufacturers have simply not requested a CP rating.

I can confirm that Michelin Agilis CP marked are readily available in France, for our MH (215/75 R16 Q) they are around 143€ if two are bought at the same time - such a pricing arragement is simply to increase the likelihood of both wheels on one axle having identical tyres, the individual price is around 160€.

I have a choice of stockists locally and can have them delivered from the internet by the following day to a garage of our choice, or they will fit them at home, fitting is extra and avaerages around 16€ per tyre incluing balancing.

I am not sure how that price compares with UK prices, perhaps someone can advise us.......


----------



## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Black circles quote £140 for your size of tyre by Michelin Aglis. So it may be that convenience of availability trumps price difference, such as it is.

Thanks for your input penquin.

Sorry to deviate the topic.

Davy


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I am a little confused as to exactly how the French could make such a ruling in respect of tyres. 

If the tyre manufacturer rates them for the same load and speed rating as CP tyres I cannot see how any legislation could be written to exclude them. 

A tyre company rep is not a legal expert, I would want to see the relevant legislation myself!!

Also are the French authorities saying that every foreign MH that is NOT on CP tyres is breaking the law? 

Another avenue for "Flic" to "Beat The Brits" with??

I suspect this is an urban myth, a bit like "if you knock a pheasant down you can't pick it up but the following vehicle can" (Which is 100% incorrect, if you knock it down you CAN pick it up)

Andy


----------



## redkite93 (Dec 29, 2010)

ok. im confused now.......... are you saying my front tyres have to match( like shoes) and if i kill anything i cant stop to eat it:crying::crying::crying:. good job im vegetarian.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> I am a little confused as to exactly how the French could make such a ruling in respect of tyres.
> 
> If the tyre manufacturer rates them for the same load and speed rating as CP tyres I cannot see how any legislation could be written to exclude them.
> 
> ...


As I have said before, the Gendarmes are only likely to apply such a rulingto FRENCH REGISTERED vehicles, NOT UK, or German, or Italian or anyother EU regostered vehicle.

The French have shown repeatedly that they do not follow UK interpretations of the laws of THEIR land, only their own.

So to denouce a UK and International tyre specialist is not sesible. Perhaps it might be better to seek assurance from a French one......


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Thats my whole point, I would want to see the Legislation to confirm what you have been told by someone who is clearly an expert in tyres, (In your own words he was a "rep" not a technical expert)m but NOT a legal expert. I accept that they represent a company who do not produce CP tyres so have no hidden agenda but where exactly has he gleaned this information from??

As I have said if the Speed and Load rating are the same I cannot for the life of me see how anyone could say they are unsafe/illegal.

If you permanently import a UK registered MH into France do they insist that any (non CP) tyres are changed before granting the equivalent to our V5 ?? Perhaps someone who has imported one, or can ask at their local vehicle test centre, could confirm???

I am _more than happy to stand corrected _on this issue but I would want documentary (rather than word of mouth) PROOF.

Andy


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

redkite93 said:


> ok. im confused now.......... *are you saying my front tyres have to match*( like shoes)....


In this country I believe that it is not the law but considered as 'best practice'.

I think the gist of what the other guys are saying is that it is the law for French registered MH's but not the law across the EU generally. UK MH's are OK to travel in France with whatever arrangement is legal in the UK but who knows what will happen when we exit the EU (nothing I suspect).

Graham :smile2:


----------



## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Changed all 6 tyres Christmas gone. Went from the original Michelin CP tyres which had covered 55k, only half worn but 12yrs old so thought it best to change. Replaced with Hankook Vantra LT M+S rated and 116 so improved weight from 112 standard. 

Find the Hankook to be much quieter and can now hold a conversation in the cab without the need to shout. The kids in the hab area say it's also much better for them. Done about 5k since fitting and still look like new.


----------



## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

did you buy the tyres from new

If not check the date of manufacture which will be on the tyre

Or check it anyway


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

fdhadi said:


> Changed all 6 tyres Christmas gone. Went from the original Michelin CP tyres which had covered 55k, only half worn *but 12yrs old*... so thought it best to change.


:surprise:

Blimey...you got your money's worth there :grin2:

How did they look when you had them taken off? Any sign of cracking at all?

Graham :smile2:


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well our back tyres are thee years old, 

About 7 thousand miles

The tread is fine visually 

But our guy who services it was concerned that the inside of the tires look fine but feel rough on the inside 

We will have them checked because he's worried they could blow out

Sandra


----------



## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

GMJ said:


> :surprise:
> 
> Blimey...you got your money's worth there :grin2:
> 
> ...


Honestly Graham, they looked fine. Each Mot I asked about the tyres and if I should change them and the reply was "their fine" or "I wouldn't change them ".

I cried when they were taken off, a bit like throwing good food or beer away :frown2:

Our MH is stored indoors away from all the elements so this helps.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

fdhadi said:


> Honestly Graham, they looked fine. Each Mot I asked about the tyres and if I should change them and the reply was "their fine" or "I wouldn't change them ".
> 
> I cried when they were taken off, a bit like throwing good food or beer away :frown2:
> 
> Our MH is stored indoors away from all the elements so this helps.


Nice one.

I think regular use; regular checking; proper inflation; and good storage will all help prolong the life of tyres personally.

Graham:smile2:


----------



## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

Same here. Just coming up on 10K miles and 10 years old.
I rotate them every few years (as 2 sit facing the sun) 
And I rotate out the spare.
I specifically ask at each MOT they check them carefully.
Wear is minimal and no signs of cracks or bulges beyond how they are constructed.
You do need to take into consideration that some tyres are constructed in a way that gives slight bulges under load.
On ours you have always been able to see a shape in the side walls that represents the re-enforcement.
So its easy when they age for a new eye to see that as potential damage.
I'll probably be looking at replacement of all 5 in a year or 2 and will switch to winter tyres as mileage is never going to be the wear factor.


----------



## redkite93 (Dec 29, 2010)

thanks all. it definitely looks like a faulty one from all your comments. they were both new at the same time, pressures are checked and weight limit adhered to etc.
the garage is going to put a claim in for me. thanks again for all the useful information.


----------



## mry716 (Apr 28, 2012)

Penquin said:


> If they are not rated as Motorhome tyres (CP Rating) then the side walls are not as thikly uilt and the life and use of a MH may lead to such a breakdown.
> 
> I was recently advised about this due to the strict way the Frenh interpret the EU rules (the UK does not), if I was found with "van" tyres NOT CP rated then my insurance would be invalid and it would be an illegal act.....
> 
> ...


This is rather concerning. Last year in France, we unfortunately had a small rock slide immediately in front of us and a sharp flinty rock took a large chunk of rubber out of the sidewall / side tread of our FOS tyre.

I drove to the next passing place and changed the wheel. The next day I went to a tyre service centre where they sold a wide range of tyre makes most of which were also available in the UK.

Having previously read on the forums the same point as you have made I wished to ensure they fitted either a same brand spec tyre as originally fitted to our vehicle ( I was on original tyres) or a similar tread style tyre that would offer similar grip BUT definitely one that conformed to the law. We ultimately after due discussion had a different tyre fitted to the steel wheel spare and our original new spare tyre fitted to the FOS wheel with damaged tyre.

We were categorically told the weight and speed markings on the tyre dictate the legality and that although a 'Camper' tyre would conform it was not specifically required that the tyre had that designation on the sidewall to be legal. They showed me a lot of detail that I could not read (being in French) that they said confirmed their statement and of course I accepted their word.

Further.... this year I have purchased a new set of alloys and had a set of all season tyres fitted for travelling legally on the continent spring and autumn in possible snowy conditions. After considerable research I decided on Nokian Weatherproof C. I checked with the maker directly by phone and had quite a long conversation with a very knowledgeable person who advised that these tyres would be both legal and suitable for my vehicle and my needs. The result is that I have found the tyres give the most comfortable ride with excellent wet grass and snow grip and road holding better that I have previously experienced - either part loaded or fully loaded. This isn't our first camper and I have used at least 6 makes of tyres for comparison. Part of the ride comfort is due to the low pressure in comparison to other makes. I only inflate to 50-55lbs dependant on the load carried. These tyres do not carry a 'Camper' designation BUT are confirmed by the maker as legally suitable for our Warwick Duo throughout the continent 12 months of the year.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Nokian Weatherproof C.
They certainly have good reviews.

Ray.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I do wonder if this “You must use CP rated tyres” in France is a legal requirement or an urban myth.

The reason I question it is because the tyre manufacturers, who must surely be considered the ultimate experts in the field, produce tyres that have the necesssary speed AND load rating for motorhomes.

How do the French actually define, in legal terms, what the difference is between a “Camping car” a delivery van and a saloon ca? In the UK the LEGAL definition of all three is actually the same, they are, by strict definition all “motor cars”

Also, under EU rules, if a vehicle is legal in its country of registration then it is classed as being legal in all othe EU countries. So I could have a UK registered MH and use it (almost) constantly in France (returning to the UK once every five and a half months for a single day) and run it on white van man tyres and be totally legal. Yet if I then registered it into France it would suddenly be illiegal because it didn’t have CP rated tyres. 

Like I said it does seem perverse in the extreme.

I accept what is being said that tyres must be of an equal specification to those fitted originally BUT the ONLY legal specification is the size along with the load and speed rating. You can get both 8 & 10 ply white van man tyres but the speed and load ratings are the same. Also when the base vehicles leave the factory are they fitted with CO tyres? I bet not and they are changed later.

I did ask Michelin some while ago if they considered there were any safety issues with using van tyres rather than CP ones. There reply was that ordinary van tyres with the same speed and load ratings were perfectly safe.

Andy


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

No idea whether it is urban myth or a requirement - all I know is that during our (very) recent _Controle Technique_ the technician concerned looked carefully at every one of our (brand new) Michelin Agilis Camping tyres and said _"Bon"_ - he was the one who last year said that the rating has to be correct as regards camping v van.

I do not believe that his statements would be based on urban myth since all of his requirements are laid out in black and white in front of him for the issue of the sticker. BUT I do not *KNOW* which is correct.

I also know that the Police can, and do, check the summer/winter/4 seasons rating on the tyres in the mountain regions where specific requirements exist.......

So maybe it is NOT urban myth but a legal requirement since, as has been said before, Napoleonic Law gives approval to *DO* something, not a prohibition *AGAINST* doing something as UK Law does.......


----------



## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Yes I go along with Mr Plodd on this one, as long as the load and speed rating are correct then fine.

We always use winter tyres all year round on both our cars and the motorhome, the weather is bad up here a lot during autumn, winter and spring.

I have read a few times that they do not produce camping tyres for all motorhome sizes either.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> Also, under EU rules, if a vehicle is legal in its country of registration then it is classed as being legal in all other EU countries....


That's the clincher there...

Graham:smile2:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

OK, so has anyone ever been stopped for driving in the Alps and NOT having tyres marked for winter or 4 seasons use? Or for not carrying snow chains?

Driving without those is perfectly legal in the UK but in the Alps they are a legal requirement same as in Germany you are required to have winter tyres fitted....

but those vehicles would still be legal in the UK so how does that fit with EU Law?

As of course, happens with Spain and Portugal and A frames...... legal in the UK? But certainly deemed NOT legal in Spain and Portugal..... and users HAVE been stopped, td to separate and I believe fined for using such a set-up in Spain and Portugal.......

There are times when an over-riding law may well have set aside rules as well......


----------



## exmusso (Jun 18, 2006)

*Tyre Life*

Hi,
Our Bessie came with Conti CPs which only lasted 20k on the front. I changed these out for Michelin CPs which lasted for only another 20k on the front and the original tyres were barely legal on the rear.

I bought a German Motorhome Magazine in Europe somewhere which was carrying out a test of tyres on motorhomes and the winner was Hankook Vantra LT (Light truck) 10 ply tyres. These exceeded or matched the Michelin and Continental in all respects apart from the price which was around £40 cheaper.

Needless to say, I bought a set of 4 at 40k and m/h now has 57500 and they're doing OK. I also found them quieter.

On our previous van, a Rimor Sailer 645 on a Ford Mk6 Transit with 140hp, twin rear wheels and drive, we covered 65k miles in 6+ years on the original Michelin van tyres. When we swapped it for the Bessacarr, the tyres still had loads of life and tread on them.

I also bought a set of tyre chains in France a couple of years ago but forgot to take them with me last winter when we were away for 6 months to France, Spain and Portugal.
Meant we had more payload for booze.

Cheers,
Alan


----------

