# free aires becoming chargable?



## stevegos (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi, there was a post a few days ago from Mr Plodd (sorry don't know real name) where he was changing from a motorhome to a caravan.

One of the reasons was that many previously free aires were now charging a fee.

My use of aires is limited as only had our motorhome for 1.5 years and probably like most we try to use the free aires over the paid ones but don't mind paying a few euros per night if its a good spot.

So the question to the longer term user of aires (not just for France) have you seen more aires start to charge? Is it a tiny percentage and I'm just paranoid?

Views welcome...


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

There has been a reduction in the number of free aires and I have noticed more are charging. There has also been an increase in charges on those that have been charging for some time. However just this alone would not result in us giving up a motorhome! I didn't buy it just to use on free aires.

peedee


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

French aires in popular touristy locations often charge, the more out of the way ones rarely do. 
The local community provide these stopover places predominantly to bring a small revenue stream to the area, hoping that the users of the aire and its facility will also use the local businesses.
Problem is, that to maintain the facility costs money this will normally be covered by the commune, when the local taxpayers and business owners see no return from what would appear to be affluent users of their area, they take the decision to make a charge, the charge will normally be in line with the level of service provided, so to my mind both understandable and reasonable.
There are many motorhome / camping caristes that don't wish to pay and will find devious ways to dodge the charge.
Spain and Portugal has for years been the haven for free camping (not aire use), as word got around the European motorhome community that this was the case it became overused to an unacceptable degree until the authorities were forced to act, this has spawned a number of enterprises opening motorhome aires basically a motorhome campsite, normally much cheaper per 24Hrs. than normal camp sites and usually offering less facilities.

The old saying of there is nothing for nothing is usually true.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

> eurajohn said:- There are many motorhome / camping caristes that don't wish to pay and will find devious ways to dodge the charge.


Pathetic isn't it John - and as always it's the selfish minority who bugger up a good thing for the rest of us.

The number of times we see French and German vans (_and it does seem to be mostly those_ :roll: ) arriving late and leaving at the crack of dawn in order to avoid the man with the collecting box. You sometimes even see them parked up the road, waiting until they see the money man leave the aire!!

I just can't comprehend the mentality of anyone who will pay £50,000 or more for a motorhome, then go to no end of trouble to avoid paying a few Euros for an overnight stop. :roll:

Then some of them have the gall to brag about it on the forums, and whine when the credit card machines are installed or the aires are closed down for good!!!!

Dave

_P.S. Before I have to dodge the flak, there's a big difference between wild camping for the solitude, and freeloading on aires where there is a small charge to be dodged._


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

We toured the Chablis and Burgundy ares last year and did not pay on any Aires and some had free water. Toilet dump is usually free except at the type where you need to open the cabinet to access it.

Most were close to town/village centres so we patronised the local shps and markets, whereas if the Aire had not been there we would have used spermarkets for convenience of parking.

Geoff


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

There is a private company who seem to be gradually taking over some aires, especially in the popular areas..

http://www.camping-car-park.com/en/aire-de-camping

If you're away for a long time it does help the budget using free aires or aires de stationement (no facs), but we're quite happy to use pay ones if they are in a location we want to visit. It all evens out in the end.
Its usually the case for us that the chargeable ones are often in a touristy area we'd steer clear of anyway as we're miserable loners and like a bit of solitude. 

Nothing to get too worried about imo.

Pete


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

By way of an example.
From the early 1980's we visited a place called Leucate, initially two weeks every early or late summer (never in high summer), main reason was that there is a massive inland sea (etang) which coupled with the wind (Tramontane) that frequently blows very strongly made it an absolute haven for windsurfing. 
There was limited access to the main beach / launch area and it was always pretty full up with motorhomes from around Europe but always windsurfers. 
As the years passed it became more and more crowded and the areas parked on sprawled, and several other areas around the lake were frequented.
The local commune relies on 2 main things for income, wine production and tourists, they made every effort to welcome the motorhomers / windsurfers, several service areas were constructed and they had a basic €1 pay machine for water, many used them properly but far more chose to try and defeat the system by dumping at the service point and stealing water from wherever they could (usually the local fire service station or wine collective station). we always chose to use the vidange service offered by the camping municipal which was €2.
Added to this problem the word had got around and massive amounts of vans just looking for somewhere free to stay frequented the area often for extended stays, so much so that many started referring to various different areas as "German City" or "Little Berlin" rather than their proper French names such as Le Goulet, La Mine etc.
By the early 2000's the locals (we are friends with some) were starting to complain to their councils about the quantity of freeloaders and demanded something was done about it, by this time the almost free service areas I mentioned had been all but destroyed with the water supply damaged from trying to defeat without paying and being left filthy with dumped rubbish, the same people rather than buying their daily provisions from the local shops would do a weekly shop at out of area supermarkets
The service areas were removed, access to most of the previously free camping areas was restricted, local laws passed which made it a fineable offence to free camp and three pay aires were constructed two by the main beach area and one at the etang.
The problem with the one at the etang is that you are so far from the water it is difficult to transfer all of the necessary kit to the water and the vast majority of people staying are not windsurfers anyway.
For me we now stay at a camp site and when I wish to sail go out for the day to one of the places we are allowed to park for the day and sail from, now retired we have the time to stay as long as we desire only now with the restrictions only spend three or four weeks a year.
A friend of ours has taken the decision to change from a motorhome to caravan, which he will leave in storage down there and drive down and put on site, as a direct result or these changes there.


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## hulltramper (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi.
Eurajohn.. In a Nutshell,fast forward to England and sea side councils,moorland councils. Discounting the freeloaders,from ALL countries Overloading areas is the problem.Thanks for the post.
hulltramper


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

> "Zebedee"
> I just can't comprehend the mentality of anyone who will pay £50,000 or more for a motorhome, then go to no end of trouble to avoid paying a few Euros for an overnight stop. :roll:
> 
> Then some of them have the gall to brag about it on the forums, and whine when the credit card machines are installed or the aires are closed down for good!!!!


Possibly the same people who knowingly buy >3m >3.5t motorhomes and complain that they have to keep pressing a button and say "Camping Car" when they reach a peage? :roll:


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## stevegos (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies.

It sounds like nothing much to worry about, but in some areas where the local generosity of a free aire is abused and they have to make a charge (keeping out the rif-raf).

We stayed at the paid aire in Lucate by the beach last September. Cost about 12€ per night I think. It was packed. Nice area.

We've stayed in some amazing free aires and some dreary paid ones.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It'll give someone a chance to write an app to locate the "free" aires then :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi!



> So the question to the longer term user of aires (not just for France) have you seen more aires start to charge? Is it a tiny percentage and I'm just paranoid?


There certainly is such a tendency, and it is not limited to France. Others have already mentioned some of the reasons, but there are more:

In Germany, and not only there, one of the basic ideas behind the "stellplatz" concept was that these sites were intended for a *short term stay.* Usually between about 1 and 3 nights. Now while usually it was tolerated if during the low season someone stayed a few nights more, I do know several stellplatz sites which had been taken over by "long-term campers" for weeks if not months on end, blissfully ignoring the stay time limit. And sometimes even actively bullying away arriving short-term guests. (Especially free stellplatz with EHU were prone to this kind of misbehaviour.) Which pretty much forced the communes to introduce a charge, just to make room for those short-term guests the site was originally intended for.

I know of another case in Germany in which a local camp-site owner had actually forced the commune - by means of a court verdict! - to introduce a charge.

Still, if an aire or stellplatz is pleasant enough and the charge is not disproportionate, I absolutely do not mind to pay. And the further away you get from the big tourist attractions, the more likely it still becomes to find a free aire. (Which of course encourages us to support the local economy.)

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 79144will (Sep 8, 2010)

We are in Sicily and have a German m/h over the site road from us ,the site now charges for electricity, this guy takes his kettle to the toilet to boil it,and I thought us Jocks where tight,so it happens all over ,you just have to see him put the kettle into a napsack to take it and bring it back, so no one sees ,soggy bag from the master race,regards Bill


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

> Possibly the same people who knowingly buy >3m >3.5t motorhomes and complain that they have to keep pressing a button and say "Camping Car" when they reach a peage? Rolling Eyes


No so, freeloaders don't use peage sections of autoroutes.
peedee


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## Melly (Jul 5, 2007)

Maybe he would be better off with a jerry can :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

> *peejay wrote: *There is a private company who seem to be gradually taking over some aires, especially in the popular areas..
> 
> http://www.camping-car-park.com/en/aire-de-camping
> 
> ...


Yes we ran into a few of these last year and the year before. Didnt stay on any of them though. Getting a bit CC Looking to me and they are not cheap.

Also noticed one or two good aires have just vanished.

Having said that there are still thousands of free ones if you stay away from the main hot spots as we like to do anyway.

I really dont get this attitude about dodging the ticket man either. Really is pathetic and Im the biggest Freeloader around!  I would never do that though and on a Free aire I make an effort to spend locally. Mainly because I want to as I love French produce.

Its a fantastic facility the French, Germans, Italians and some other countries have provided and long may it continue and it will if its not abused.


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## jlo37 (Dec 8, 2012)

The root of the problem is people abusing the system. In the aforementioned Leucate aire the Germans (mostly) are always looking for ways to break the barrier and water whatsit. They sit for months and if the barrier is broken they all pile out. There are still lots of good free aires. Compared to GB its still the place to be.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The fact that SOME Aire's wee starting to charge was certainly not the main reason I have switched to a caravan. Over the years we have used a huge number of Aire's and personally I have never worried about paying for them and did get very annoyed at those who seemed to go to great efforts to avoid a few Euro's. They have, almost single handedly, managed to start the habit of charging for Aire's to become more widespread.

I did begrudge paying for a few of the a that were basically uneven gravel or rocky areas (Think Honfleur and Crotoy Aire's)

The charge for SOME Aire's is, as I stated in my other post, not far short of what an ACSI or MUnicipal site charges. So my view is I might as well pay the little bit extra and have a decent sized pitch and hot showers etc. Especially as I am now able to travel outside the school holiday period as Mrs Plodd no longer works in a school!

I will certainly miss the ability to make use of many Aire's but having very carefully weighed up the fors and againsts we decided to go to the dark side.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

We love France and the aire system, like most members we tent to use the small of the beaten track aires. If its free great if not that's ok too as overall it's much cheaper than the UK. Where ever we go we try and use local shops and always try to leave a place cleaner than we find it. As stated their are those who will go to great lengths to avoid paying. The last aire we were on "Broglie" the chap came round and collected the fee. After he'd gone three motorhome came in, I've seen this before, and set up for the night. Within 30 min the man was back again 2 vans left one remained, all three were French. However most people stick to the rules, it's just a few ****s that spoil it for the rest of us. Frankley if there were a site I could report them on I would along with the dirty sods who litter the country. 

Wobby


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> *wobby wrote:-* like most members we tent to use the small of the beaten track aires


I thought you had a motorhome? 

Pete


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

We were at Millau Aire last November. It costs €5 a night payable with a pre loaded card you get at the entrance. For that you get to use the facilities, park up, EHU and wifi. Yet some people, (3 French and a Brit), chose to park up outside the gate on the soup kitchen car park. They even complained when people came to drop off donations at the charity and blocked them in for a short time.

It is amazing how brass necked some people can be and how they expect the rest of us to accept their abusing people and facilities.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

peejay said:


> > *wobby wrote:-* like most members we tent to use the small of the beaten track aires
> 
> 
> I thought you had a motorhome?
> ...


It's a go any aire Motorhome

Wobby :wink:


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## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

I wouldn't have problem if they put a charge on every Aire, Stellplatz or Sosta. I wouldn't even mind if they put a barrier on operated by credit card payment.

With the amount of money people are paying for their motorhome they should be ashamed for cribbing about the cost of an stay.


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

*Charges for aires*

So no we don't need an app to find free aires 'cos I am happy (and financially able)to pay for what I use.

At the Millau Aire (and elsewhere)I let them know my views as they were almost certainly using the free wi fi and water facilities as well. Some comment like there's plenty of room inside or do you need any help to operate the barrier.

Hopefully they read these forums to get more tips on their freeloading lifestyle and will maybe change their attitude.

Same on here for posts asking about the cheapest routes and free stopping places etc

We should resist freeloaders wherever we can 'cos they are going to spoil it for the rest of us.


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

*Re: Charges for aires*



Webby1 said:


> So no we don't need an app to find free aires 'cos I am happy (and financially able)to pay for what I use.
> 
> At the Millau Aire (and elsewhere)I let them know my views as they were almost certainly using the free wi fi and water facilities as well. Some comment like there's plenty of room inside or do you need any help to operate the barrier.
> 
> ...


See the new post about Scarborough parking

I agree with you totally ,that post proves your point ,and one day we will all be banned or treated badly

Rant over


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

*Re: Charges for aires*



> * Webby1 said *So no we don't need an app to find free aires 'cos I am happy (and financially able)to pay for what I use.
> 
> At the Millau Aire (and elsewhere)I let them know my views as they were almost certainly using the free wi fi and water facilities as well. Some comment like there's plenty of room inside or do you need any help to operate the barrier.
> 
> ...


I resent the implications in this post, what is wrong with trying to make our hobby a bit cheaper, I understand that parking outside "any" camp site is wrong, but trying to save money is not the same as trying to avoid paying.

I suggested the free aire app as a bit of a joke, but really, why not? do you always pay for your WiFi etc, of course, well poked up, so you can I suppose.

We like others on here don't have bulging pockets, we can't all go and stay on expensive sites, we also prefer to camp off grid as we don't have to listen to others dogs, kids, music or gennys, but I'm branded as a tight arse, I suggest you wind your neck in and get real.

Like others we spend our money locally when we're away, we've not made the trip across to France etc yet because of the costs involved, so we will be looking for places to stay which are free, we wild camp because most sites are dismal little places with small minded little complainers on them, charge way too much to put the handbrake on, and provide poorly maintained facilities, and of course the places we camp up are beautiful.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well said Kev. There is a difference between being cautious in what you spend on trips on parking, tolls etc than simply taking the Pish and being a freeloader.

I agree that parking outside an aire or buggering off when the ticket man comes is just wrong but there is nothing wrong with avoiding tolls to save money or staying on free aires or wild spots to save a few quid and I suspect most of us do this.

We go away for long periods, six months once. It costs us about £1000 a month or maybe a bit less so whichever way you look at it and how we spend our money six grand went into some countries economy and similar amounts each year for the past 7 years. If we used tolls all the time or paid for camping each night that figure would be much much higher.

Not all motorhomers are loaded, I'm certainly not anymore, The French have it all. 

I think many are possibly asset rich and have layed out the cost for an expensive van and perhaps have no mortgage but that doesnt mean they dont have to watch the pennies.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I support Kev and Barry in their view, even though we probabl have more income at our disposal.

We do not go on campsites because we do not like them. 

We prefer isolated or rural spots whether that is wildcamping or Aires. WE chose Aires from the descriptions of the area and the photos, whether or not they charge. We do not avoid paying, although if I know we will be in a place with free water in 2 days I will not bother to go around to find the Mairie/Shop for a jeton at the current one.

I am sure that there are local councils in France that have careully balanced the sums for Aires of free or charging, by various methods, and the potential revenue versus cost and I am sure they are capable at arriving at the decision which suits them.

It should also be rmembered that in France there are often Aires that have no facilities - they are just Car Parks, like the other free CPs in small towns and villages(where there are no height barriers and no restrictions) so charging on the Aire would be pointless if they were worried about 'freeloaders', who could then just use the CP.

I get the impressin from some remarks on here that using any facilities that are free is considered immoral and freeloading. 

Geoff


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

May I refer the three honourable gentlemen above to the final caveat in my earlier post!

_"P.S. Before I have to dodge the flak, there's a big difference between wild camping for the solitude, and *freeloading on aires where there is a small charge to be dodged*."_

Of course nobody spends money foolishly (_apart from Mrs Zeb when she sees a shoe shop!_ :roll: ) but the trouble some people take to *use the facilities without paying for them* is the point at issue here.

That is freeloading!

Dave


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I don't know about France etc. but I DO know that some of the worst freeloading offenders often have big new vans in the UK. What they DON'T have are any morals, scruples and certainly no manners.

I think Mr. Webby has thrown a wobbly with his over the top rant. :?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave 

Steady up.

Both Kev and Barry specifically said that trying to dodge is wrong and I agreed with their posts.

I do not think we need to be referred to your post or caveat as we were agreeing with you, if you look carefully.

Geoff


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Hey no offence intended.......................as Barry said



> There is a difference between being cautious in what you spend on trips on parking, tolls etc than simply taking the Pish and being a freeloader.


There is nothing wrong with using free facilities and none (not many) of us can afford to waste money.

But let's not argue amongst ourselves about the subtleties I
think we all know the behaviour/attitude we are talking about.


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

I think you Rosbiffs ,should stay in your own country( Cheap skates)

and leave us Frogs legs to our beautiful free Aires :lol: 

Also stop blighting our beautiful countryside with your so called Wild camping ,you semi wobblywagons you

Cos if its not a Challenger or L.H.D you should stop over in your own piddling little over crowded Country,

If you choose to ignore this (at your peril mind) :wink: 

could you please drop off 1000 English teabags, as ours are crappo :lol: :lol: 

I hope this lightens the mood somewhat 8)


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Geoff

You said, _"I get the impressin from some remarks on here that using any facilities that are free is considered immoral and freeloading."_

Hope you didn't mean me, which is why I posted the referral. :wink:

It's a wonder this thread hasn't already developed into a slanging match about what counts as "freeloading" - they usually do when anything of the kind is mentioned. I was just trying to pre-empt that probable decline, and keep it on an even and impersonal keel.

We do use free aires quite often when it suits, but I wouldn't want to bother looking for free overnight stops to the exclusion of all else - although I see nothing at all wrong in that. It is not freeloading, it's simply making use of a facility that has been offered by the local council, or whoever.

Likewise if one finds a lovely spot for wildcamping . . . until it is descended upon by the hoards and is no longer a lovely spot!! When that happens it's hard not to think of it as freeloading, specially if it is quite obvious that it's likely to upset the locals.

As Webby said, _"But let's not argue amongst ourselves about the subtleties I think we all know the behaviour/attitude we are talking about."_

Dave


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

There cannot be an official argument on this site until NigelF/p*k*ys/RedEd have been blamed for it.  #OnlyJoking


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

daffodil said:


> I think you Rosbiffs ,should stay in your own country( Cheap skates)
> 
> and leave us Frogs legs to our beautiful free Aires :lol:
> 
> ...


Cor, Daffs, does the fact that I have LHD let me in????

Or am I just a European soutpiel (google it!)


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## Cazzie (Feb 13, 2009)

I think motorhoming may soon become a victim of its own success.
When you see the number now on the roads, in Aires, on campsites even in the low season things are bound to change.
I think we may have had the best of the motorhoming years so make the most of it while we can.
Cazzie


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I think though I am right in saying that Aires in France were developed because motorhoming became popular and people were just parking anywhere. Thank god they were and also that other countries like Italy and Germany saw the light too.

There is always the odd bit of bad behavior but thankfully mainland Europe doesnt seem to have the attitude of banning everyone just because 1 person emptied their grey water in a car park drain.

There is not I dont think the "not in my backyard" attitude abroad either.

I remember one night in the south of France it getting dark and we were a bit lost and looking for somewhere to park up. We pulled into a really delightful little village. Big expensive houses, a little village square and a boules court. No Aire though. Bloke comes out of his garden all smiles and tells us to park on their Boules court! 

We met a few locals and they were all friendly. Nobody batted an eyelid at the strange foriegners parked on their Boules court.

Can you imagine getting away with that on a village green in the Cotswolds?


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## daffodil (Aug 7, 2014)

HermanHymer said:


> daffodil said:
> 
> 
> > I think you Rosbiffs ,should stay in your own country( Cheap skates)
> ...


As long as you bring the teabags you are more then welcome,

just don"t sneak any of those Rosbifs in Cheapskaters

there is nothing like being a soutpiel it broadens your knowledge and horizons :wink: as long as they are not both left feet like some on here 
:lol: :lol:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

> *Zebedee said*
> May I refer the three honourable gentlemen above to the final caveat in my earlier post!
> 
> _"P.S. Before I have to dodge the flak, there's a big difference between wild camping for the solitude, and *freeloading on aires where there is a small charge to be dodged*."_
> ...


Dave, I wasn't referring to your post which as usual was a measured approach  and more than valid, it was against the one size fits all attitude of some people, which I am and always will rebel against.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Having uses free aire's quite extensively, I am also happy to pay, and often do, as long as the prices are reasonable.
For instance, we usually pay for a couple of weeks at Gruisan, last year it was 8.50 euro per night (I think) we pay for the location. 
We spent 5 night at St Croix du Verdun, and again happy to pay. We did over 6 week in Germany and most were pay aires.
However, a couple of years ago, we went down to the northern shores of Lake Constance and we felt the stelplatz around there, were a rip off, although Konstance itself at 14 euro was good for the location!
We do know many very nice free aires, but they are disappearing, one by one. 
What we never do, is stay where we don't like, just to save money.and we never dodge paying, we even put money into honesty boxes.
From our observations, the French are usually the ones who try to dodge paying, sorry, but that is what we have found. There are some UK free loaders, but we have not seen too many.
We have even seen French waiting for someone to feed the pay water tap, then rush over with their jerry cans, to such extent of well over six of them and virtually pushing in on the guy who paid!
Mind you, I don't often pay for water as I top up when it is free or when I have paid for the aire.
Somebody above said "the good days have gone" I second that, and doubt we will want to be m/hing in 10 years time, even if we are able!
It has been said that often people with big new vans in the UK are the free loaders! That is not our experience abroad!
Anyway, Yes I like to stay for free, but I don't free load, don't like them, and we often contribute to the local economy!
If we feel welcome we contribute, if not we don't!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ive started my own Aire before when doing a bit of Freeloading  Sorry wild camping.

This place in the Alps was deserted. You cannot see but it was a massive space of about 4 acres. What happened? one van pulled up right behind us, followed by about another 4 later. Could have gone to different corners of the valley but no! Despite the guitar and yobbo appearence my magnatism was just too much for them. :roll:


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

the implication is that there are hordes of "freeloaders" around spoiling it for everyone, rubbish , there are always going to be a few who wish to get something for nothing, these are ,mostly the ones who already reside in that country (we've all seen the french arrive after 5 and leave at sunrise),and know the avoidance ropes , not always do i want the comfort of a site where the best scenery is the back or side of 7 ton bus sized camper, and like BarryD i like to see the real world, also not all of us have unlimited funds for a brand new van and 5 star sites, not always can you get on an aire pay or not, as the foreigners put out chairs tables etc to stop you getting in. so you park outside and wait I wouldn't pay to park outside on the road as they don,t pay to be inside. most welcome the added income if you do park in their village and use the bar and shops.

i obviously fit the bill as freeloader as i have filled my water at a marina from a standpipe instead of paying. but on the other hand we have just spent £2.500 into the french and Spanish economy on a 8 week holiday


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

I would like to throw two more aspects into the discussion:

After (almost precisely these days) 14 years of motorhoming, I would be able to compile a LONG list of places which we only ever visited *because they had an aire!* Admittedly, a small number of them did not leave any lasting impression, or even a negative one. But in the vast majority we felt welcome, found interesting sights, good restaurants, nice shops, you name it. And quite a few have become favourite spots to which we keep returning. Again, this only because they had an aire, or stellplatz, or ställplats, whatever it is called. Among them are - lo and behold! - a few spots in UK which don't even have an official aire, but from which we knew that there were car parks suitable for an overnight stay.

And then there is the budget aspect: Even though we can't complain about our financial situation, our travel budget has limits. As probably most other people's have. Which of course means that if we have to increase spending at one side, here site charges, we have to cut down somewhere else. Be it food (more MH cooking, less restaurants), tolls, entry fees, whatever. So seen from a global perspective, what site owners will earn more, other contributors to the local economy will lose.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Just an add on to what I said above.
Over the years, we have also built up quite a knowledge of free aires and we know many places suitable for wilding. We still enjoy these places and rarely pay for water. 
We don't have a problem finding a place to stay, village squares are always a fall back, but where ever you park, the inevitable togetherness will bring another van :lol: 
We can easily do a 6/7 week tour of France, including the very south, for just under £1000, including ferry, daily wine and beer, and good home cooking. 
We tend to do most things as if we are living there, and not in a must have everything holiday mode! This way, we can do it on our pensions and interest, not eating into capital! 
We,only pay for an aire, if we like the location, we like a view! To be fair, I don't thing we pay, until we get down south. 
I think Germany is better value, particularly the Mosel where about 6 euro is average!
So, one day, I might be a so called free loader, the next, a paying customer. Oh, we very rarely use a campsite, although, we do plan to use more for City visiting locations! These will be Municipal or ACSI
:lol:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

> Hi Geoff
> 
> You said, _"I get the impressin from some remarks on here that using any facilities that are free is considered immoral and freeloading."_
> 
> ...


Dave

Sorry this response is late - I was out shopping.

I was not referring to you and I did not think your post was in that vein at all.

Geoff


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Webby, totally agree that dodging fees and using facilities you haven't paid for is out of order.
What rankled me a bit though was..



> Same on here for posts asking about the cheapest routes and free stopping places etc
> 
> We should resist freeloaders wherever we can 'cos they are going to spoil it for the rest of us.


Not sure how that classes someone as a freeloader.

Incidentaly, we pulled in to the aire at Millau last year and we both thought it a bit grotty, unkempt and overpriced for what it was. We ended up a few kms to the west at a beautiful free parking spot with views of the bridge to die for.
IMO more often than not the peace, solitude and location of a free spot beats the pay ones hands down.

Pete


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## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

*Aires*

Must apologise if I have upset some folks with my very broad brush strokes................................I have lumped together those looking for cheap/free ways of stopping,those who love wildcamping and those who are taking the p*ss. Sorry !

What get's my goat is seeing large, expensive rigs crammed together in some wasteland in some poor Spanish village or down the side streets outside someones house, when the municipality has provided a campsite or aire with or without a charge.............and then bragging about how little they are spending........Sometimes it feels a bit like some kind of Northern European colonisation.

And if that's not you I apologise again !!


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

To me a freeloader is person or persons that seeks (and uses) ways to get what is available for nothing and expect to not (and don't) give anything in return. 

By that I mean the fee dodgers but more specifically the type that have caused the authorities and residents in the likes of the Spanish and French coastal areas to outlaw what most of the contributors to this thread would have previously sought out and used responsibly, e.g. they park up for months on end on a previously lovely area, dispose of their waste however they can, obtain water from sources not intended to be used in such a manner.

I'm not suggesting that if you don't use toll roads the description applies.

I'm not suggesting that if you use officially free aires or accepted free parking spots the description applies.

We are currently in Portugal, here, there are still many places that free camping is accepted, we do it, as do many others, what we and the majority do is to spend a few days off grid and then use one of the plentiful motorhome aires to service the van and get the washing done etc. if somewhere takes our fancy we'll stay longer (just finished 10 days at the police site in Tavira €9.90 per night all inclusive).

Asset rich but income poor as someone said, so need to be careful but that doesn't extend to overstaying a welcome or obtaing our stay by deceit.


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## Fairportgoer (Jun 24, 2008)

barryd said:


> Ive started my own Aire before when doing a bit of Freeloading  Sorry wild camping.
> 
> This place in the Alps was deserted. You cannot see but it was a massive space of about 4 acres. What happened? one van pulled up right behind us, followed by about another 4 later. Could have gone to different corners of the valley but no! Despite the guitar and yobbo appearence my magnatism was just too much for them. :roll:


They may have stopped to see you playing your guitar with a bottle of beer instead of a plectrum like most do 8O


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