# Inverter Installation



## TheHewsonFamily (Nov 16, 2010)

I have recently been exploring the possibility of installing an inverter into our motorhome to enable us to use a 230V power supply when not on EHU. The inverter I am looking at installing is a pure sine wave 300W from Maplins for about £100.

However, I have to admit to being very confused by lots of conflicting advice and information that I am getting. The plan was to get it professionally installed, along with a second leisure battery by a local motorhome dealership. I have called them about doing the work and they have told me that they won't install inverters due to the fire risk and that no reputable motorhome dealer will now install them!

Elsewhere, there are numerous companies that advertise inverters that are fitted into ambulances, police vehicles, military vehicles, fitted as standard to many larger motorhomes, etc. I find it hard to believe that the fire risk is that great if they are fitted correctly, according to the manufacturers specifications, especially if they are retrofitted to the vehicles I have mentioned.

So, I am looking for advice from those of you that have them fitted. What size invertors are you using? What wattage would you recommend (we will be using TV, satellite, laptop, mobile phone chargers, radio but not all at the same time)? What are the fire risks? Do you know anyone who will carry out the installation in the Northamptonshire area?

I would welcome any advice or comments that you have.

Many thanks,

Colin


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

What a load of tosh !!!! How long do you think a company would stay in business if they are supplying electrical kit that catch's fire !!!!

Theyare about the most simple thing in the world to install. You have two cables coming out of the invertor. one Black and one Red. The red one attaches (either by crocodile clip or permanent bolted) to the Postive (+) battery terminal and Black cable goes onto the negative (-) battery terminal!! Job done. I am pretty sure they all have an overload fuse fitted to prevent any "smokey" issues !!

I am sure that Clive will be along in a mimute to give a far more expert answer !!!

I prefer the crocodile clip system. that way it is only conneceted when I want to use it (saves running the batteries flat when you "forget" to disconnect it!!)

They are a very useful bit of kit and I would not want to be without one. HOWEVER you do need to be aware of how much current (battery capacity) you are using !! 

I have an LCD telly and Sky box. My 2 x 110 AH batteries will power them happily for in excess of 5 hours without any trouble. I have no idea of exactly how long I can use both items as I have never got past 5.5 hours of wanting to watch it/them.

As far as phone and laptop charging is concerned it would probably be better to get a dedicated 12V charger unit, they are cheap enough off ebay and will obviously use less battery capacity than your proposed inverter will.


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

Well I have a 300W pure sine wave for similar uses that you list and it has never caught fire in 3 years   

I prefer to connect using crimped on ring connectors bolted directly to the leisure battery terminals.

If you are planning a trip to the Cheshire area sometime I could do it for you.




Trevor


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

I am sure Clive wont mind me posting this.

< Clive's Website >


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

A few thoughts.

Inverters are routinely used by the motorhome and boating communities. Many luxury motorhomes have inverters fitted as part of the standard electrical system (I'm thinking of brands like Concorde).

Cheap inverters may be a poor investment. I can imagine that they might run a bit hotter than some of the better ones, but this is pure conjecture.
Whilst £100 may seem quite a bit to pay, it is not a lot of money for a good 300W PSW inverter. Models from the likes of Sterling, Waeco and Victron are quite a bit more than that. E.g. a 350W Sterling PSW inverter costs just under £300.

Have a look at this information page from Sterling:
http://www.sterling-power.com/products-230vi-pure-info.htm

I installed a 150W PSW inverter a few years ago. There is a paper on this project in the "useful" downloads section if you care to read it (Installing a small inverter).

Regarding an installer, you could try Mark at Central Leisure Services:
http://www.central-leisure-services.co.uk/

Hope this is useful.

Philip


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

From personal experience I would go for a bigger inverter we started with a 300w and quickly found it was at its limit and chirping all the time. 

Better to get right first time. You need to know the wattage of the appliances that you want to use then add 50% more. 

Andy


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## TheHewsonFamily (Nov 16, 2010)

Many thanks for all your advice and information. I am sure that I am not the only person who will benefit from the details that you have all kindly provided.

I am going to go ahead with the installation of the inverter and find a dealer who will carry out the work for me.


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Yes I agree with the comments, just be aware of the current you are consuming from your batteries, for example 300 watt inverter at full load say 30 amps, which means out of two fully charged 2 x 110ah batteries you get around 6hours use, yes the pricing for a good pure sign wave inverter would be around £300, mine was about £700 if I recall, its also good practice to have separate 13amp sockets well away from the sockets you use from the hook up supply. Then there also the charging of the batteries. Its a better idea if you can to supply your tv, your receiver etc from the 12 volt supply. Fire risk is an issue, well ventilated inverter install, fused correctly and the use of an RCD is also needed as per iee regs 17th addition. Good idea to have a pure sign wave inverter


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Read the MHF members' guide on inverters.

Dave


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

I think the comment about dealers not installing them may be right as they are not suposed to be permanently installed.

What often happens is they get put somewhere and bolted down and then stuff gets put on top of them. They are in unventilated cupboards with stuff placed on or near them. this causes them to overheat, Plus they are very difficult to keep an eye on when permanently fixed.

I fitted on in a cupboard in my van semi permanent but its now covered in all sorts of tosh and never gets used.

Phill


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DABurleigh said:


> Read the MHF members' guide on inverters.
> 
> Dave


I agree but I'm going to be much more Helpful  and post a link because it took me a couple of minutes menu trawling to find it.

>link<



drcotts said:


> I think the comment about dealers not installing them may be right as they are not suposed to be permanently installed.
> 
> clipped
> Phill


Some are some aren't


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Link not showing for me Frank. Or is the future tense a clue?

Dick

edit: oops suddenly appeared!


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I went one further and after installing inverter I fed the 230 side into a change over switch that broke into the fuse box,it means all the 230 volts become fed from the inverter, one way EHU other way Inverter works brilliant no trailing wires,

Loddy


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Sorry for being insufficiently helpful; you try finding it when you are out and about using a phone to access MHF Mobile using a GPRS connection!

Dave


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

loddy said:


> I went one further and after installing inverter I fed the 230 side into a change over switch that broke into the fuse box,it means all the 230 volts become fed from the inverter, one way EHU other way Inverter works brilliant no trailing wires,
> 
> Loddy


You just need to remember that if you have a 3 way automatic fridge to switch it to Gas to stop it running off 240v provided by the consumer unit. I had a similar setup with my victron but the incoming ehu went through the victron to the mains box. wondered why the batteries went flat so quick and it was because the fridge prioritises 240v over everything else.

Karl


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## trevorf (May 16, 2005)

> You just need to remember that if you have a 3 way automatic fridge to switch it to Gas to stop it running off 240v provided by the consumer unit. I had a similar setup with my victron but the incoming ehu went through the victron to the mains box. wondered why the batteries went flat so quick and it was because the fridge prioritises 240v over everything else.


Good point Karl. I did exactly the same thing when I first used my inverter. Did not flatten my batteries as the 300W inverter was not man enough to run the fridge on electric. I was confused as to why the inverter low voltage alarm sounded straight after switch on until I realized the fridge was still on auto energy selection   

Trevor


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## TheHewsonFamily (Nov 16, 2010)

Clive,

I have totted up the average wattage load from the appliances I expect to be connected regularly at it comes to just over 150W, hence the choice of 300W. I don't want to go any bigger because of the issues of low efficiency at low power usage levels and the increased risk of overheating of battery connectors and the inverter itself at the higher ampages.

I have not checked but I think that I have a 80Ah leisure battery fitted at the moment. I am planning on getting rid of that and putting 2 x 110Ah batteries in their place (space allowing). I do not expect to run the appliances continuously for six hours when not on hookup before either running the engine, which will put some more charge in the batteries or moving to a site with EHU. Is that 6 hours figure calculated with consideration given to the minimum voltage that the inverter would allow before the safety mechanism switches it off?

The main reason that we want the inverter is for stopping between sites to feed/clean the little one on long trips and for those times that we want to overnight between main sites. Having a TV/Radio/DVD that we can switch on would be bonus as well as being able to run laptops/charge mobiles. Its more a case of 'its there just in case we need it'. We dont mind spending a few pennies for the luxury, I just want to make sure that I am not adding any unneccesary risks for the sake of something thats a 'nice to have'.

I have looked into 12v appliances and 12v adapters for laptops and mobiles but I think that getting a 300W pure sinewave inverter is the most flexible option. I really appreciate all the feedback though, it has given me plenty of things to consider and has helped me to decide what to do. I read the members guide on inverters before starting this thread, I just wanted a little bit of extra reassurance that I was doing the right thing


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

clive1821 said:


> Fire risk is an issue, well ventilated inverter install, fused correctly and the use of an RCD is also needed as per iee regs 17th addition. Good idea to have a pure sign wave inverter


Are you saying that the new regs require an RCD protected inverter output?
That would render all those on the market redundant and where would you get an earth from?


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Many mains appliances will work off a "Modified Sine Wave" inverter, but not all. Nowhere will you find any catagorical answer to the question "Will this XYZ work of modified sine wave" so its always a gamble. Also some bits of mains kit with cause a modified sine wave inverter to expire permanently, I have done this!. The cost of PURE SINE WAVE inverters is falling and today this would be my recommendation. Many mains equipments have starting powers that are significantly more than the average running power. So you need to have a fair bit in hand to allow for this. Permanently installed inverters are fine. But they need to be appropriately placed and protected to ensure a good supply of cooling air. Automatic switching should only power the motorhome socket outlets from the inverter, nothing else. You also need a very clear visable indicator that the inverter is running to remind you to turn it off when its not required.
Big inverters require big batteries. 
More here
http://www.motts.org/INVERTER.htm

C.


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## jud (Aug 15, 2009)

*inverters*

:wink: hi thehewsonfamily. i have a 2,000watt inverter feed like LODDYS in to the fuse box supply the power comes from 3 - 120amp batteries which are feed from 120watt solar panel . we can go 10 days plus without electric when i installed the system with batteries fully charged i tested it to see how long it would last i put the t.v on in the morning at 7.00am when it was time to go to bed at 11.00pm t.v was still on running through autosat with its search controller 12volts-sky+box 240volts-t.v 240 volts . i went for a bigger one my other was 300watt which i still have and running the big one was no different on how much it tacks out of your batteries because i did a test to see which i always do when i do a job . if you buy a small one you can never go up but with a big one you can come down that's my philosophy ( power wise ) and for short burst's like microwaves - vacume cleaners en-route some where mine was £199 ebay with twin cooling fans so no over heating we would not be with out it hope this is of some help to you .jud


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## jud (Aug 15, 2009)

*techno100*



Techno100 said:


> clive1821 said:
> 
> 
> > Fire risk is an issue, well ventilated inverter install, fused correctly and the use of an RCD is also needed as per iee regs 17th addition. Good idea to have a pure sign wave inverter
> ...


hi techno100 saw this and thought of you for a new avatar .jud :roll:


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

gromett said:


> loddy said:
> 
> 
> > I went one further and after installing inverter I fed the 230 side into a change over switch that broke into the fuse box,it means all the 230 volts become fed from the inverter, one way EHU other way Inverter works brilliant no trailing wires,
> ...


My fridge is on a different circuit (110V ) so runs on gas whilst off EHU

Loddy


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

*Re: techno100*

delete pleez


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

*Re: techno100*



jud said:


> Techno100 said:
> 
> 
> > clive1821 said:
> ...


That's a very nice pic Jud


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

This thread promted me to look closer at pure sine wave inverters.
Specifically the Sterling 350watt pro power. I'm amazed at the price difference between sellers, from sub £200 to near £300 8O Some adventurous profit margins being displayed here as it is ONLY £224 delivered direct from Sterling and at least two sellers sub £200
Don't inspire confidence in retailers


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## arh (Dec 8, 2007)

My twopenneth, I had a 300w and it wasn't a lot of good, so I fitted a 1000w with a dedicated socket, (so you can only use one thing at a time) and put 2 solar panels on the roof and I could use the inverter (judiciously mind you) without bothering the 220ah battery.


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## MEES (Apr 20, 2006)

Why dont I need one of these?
We have 2 x 100 batteries.
We were away in van in very cold weather and on long trips.
The TV and Sat work on 12v for several hours on each of several days batteries have never drained. ( once the camos has found satellite we switch it off)
We switch fridge to gas and heating runs on gas (Gaslo 2x big bottles)
Lights are all the ('low power ones}
Dont need a hairdrier.
I suppose if battery went very low we would move on and charge batteries that way or look for a hook up for a bit.
Generall after 4-5 days we are looking to empty toilet and a hook up is not far away.
In the front of our van is a charger linked I presume to engine battery.
I have an adapter which charges phone/laptop from this charging point.
It also charges the phone from the laptop so I usually keep both charged up no problem . Occasionally I ask to charge phone/lapto in a bar or McDonalds never been refused.
So what am I missing out on?
We have travelled with infants and never had problem heating food or water '[email protected]
have I just been lucky?


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## jonandjules (Jun 21, 2009)

We have a 300w modified sine Waeco installed in a locker - we usae it to power an LED TV, a SKy box, a DVD player and lap tops. I have everything plugged in through indiviually switched sockets. This keeps everything neat and tidy.

When watching the TV with DVD the fan in the inverter ramps up quite loudly - the load is only about 80 watts, if I then switch the sky box and a laptop on it cuts out. I suspect that the 300 watts rated is optimisitc this is despite it being rated at 300w continuous and 600 w surge!

I have just bought a 1000w continous that I am going to install next to the batteries. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Waeco-Perfect...ervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3f06ce9262


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## RhinoInstalls (May 11, 2010)

I had fitted a 3000watt inverter in the back of our van. It didn't catch fire, but it did smoke. I was working on a mains fault on a American motorhome when it was killed off. The components inside all of these inverters should self extinguish them selfs like mine did. 

Oh well that teaches me for buying a cheap inverter.

Phil


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