# Is fuel as expensive as we think?



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Just for interest (_as you do_ :roll: ) I tried to find the average income since 1960, and the corresponding cost of fuel.

It was harder than I expected, and I couldn't find reliable figures for diesel until 1988, so had to stick with petrol - and have shown the prices per litre.

I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it does suggest that the good old days weren't necessarily quite as good as we remember them. Compared as a percentage of average salary a gallon was more than three times as expensive in 1960. :roll:

What about a similar comparison for the price of a pint? :lol: :lol:










Dave 

*Edited. Damned image wasn't showing. Made the whole post seem like rubbish.*


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Your probably correct. I think the issue is we all had it so good in the late 90's early to mid 2000's and now everything seems to be imploding around us. Time to pay the piper so to speak

The cost of diesel seems outrageous and there are people saying they will give up their vans etc. However I just worked out that a 2000 mile 2 month trip across France and Europe will be around £100 more this year. If the same trip including spending cost say £2000 last year its going to cost £2100 this year. Doesnt seem as bad when you put it like that.


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

From - www.back2thesixties.com

An average priced house: £2500
A loaf of bread: 5p
A season ticket to see Manchester United: £8.50
A pack of 20 cigarettes: under 25p
A pint of milk: 3p
A Mars Bar: 2½p
A gallon of petrol: between 20p and 25p
A pint of beer: 8p
A brand new mini car (1960): £495.00
A brand new mini car (1969): £595.50


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## Fiffa (Mar 10, 2011)

In June 2008 Diesel in France at the Carrefour Berk was 1.449euro's pltr to-day on the internet diesel at the same location is 1.348euro's pltr. http://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

I dislike these fuel prices as much as anyone but I have been suggesting for some time that as a proportion of income it is not as bad as we think.
I have compared prices for 1971 with my income for 1971 and as a proportion my current income is much greater proportionately than the fuel increase. I chose 1971 because that is when I changed jobs and know exactly how much I earned as it sticks in my mind.
Now, in the early 70,s we did have the fuel crisis and that has probably distorted figures a bit and prices may have been higher than they would otherwise have been.
This is my way of consoling myself that things aint as bad as they seem but I still hate these fuel price increases which for one reason or another seem never ending.
Dave


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Just had a look at The AA motoring Trust web site which gives petrol prices every year. In 1971 petrol was 34.25p per gallon.
To round the figures if petrol was now £6.50 that would be about a 19 fold increase.
This confirms that my income is way more than 19 times what it was in 1971.
Got to be a mistake in my calcs somewhere, and I,m sure someone will point them out to me but for the moment makes me feel just a little better.

Just looked again and I see that by 1975 petrol had more than doubled in price to 73.20 per gallon. Perhaps that was as a result of the fuel crisis at that time.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Chudders (and others)

I only just realised the chart wasn't showing in my OP. _(It looked fine on my computer, but it must have been fetching it from the cache.)_

It was a swine to fix for some reason, but I think it's showing OK now.

I hope!! :roll:

Dave


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

Yep, all appears OK and makes sense, Thanks,
Dave


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## passionwagon (Nov 13, 2005)

8O Yep-and if the 6 day war in early 1970s price is extrapolated it works out out at nearly £2.40pl :idea:


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

One of the greatest influences on prices in the mid 70's was rampant inflation.
In 1975 it was running at 25% and we used to get pay rises every few months which was great if you had a mortgage.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Expensive*

Does not help when you factor in that Petrol and Diesel in the UK Is almost the highest in Europe.

Whilst the yanks chug around in gas guzzlers at 1/2 our prices, still.

TM


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Would love to earn 25k a year :?


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## bigfrank3 (Mar 26, 2007)

What ever you do don't tell the Chancellor    

Frank


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## DaveE (Jun 30, 2006)

*Petrol prices against income*

If we all look at against the 60's, 70's etc then it is a straight forward mathematical calculation, however the reality is that the increase in the price over the last 10 years has not been in line with earnings or at least not for the average man in the street.

The other point is that I have the luxury or should I say ability as someone who has just turned 60 to remember that as I grew up the alternatives transport to the car were more abundant, in fact I remember going to a party at my Nan's house on Christmas Eve and going home on the bus at about 11 pm and that was in Worcestershire. Today public transport in the provinces is becoming less and less as more people use their own cars so we do not have the choice to find an alternative and that is the main reason we are suffering at the escalation in fuel prices.

Personally, I don't think the situation will ever change until a government puts a massive, and I mean massive investment into public transport and give the general public a real alternative. Increasing the cost has never really stopped people who are willing to pay any amount for what they want or need.

I'd be interested to hear if others agree and as this is my first post I'll try and tone it down in future.


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Just another thought.

Vehicles are also much better on fuel today than say the 70 & 80's.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> Just for interest (_as you do_ :roll: ) I tried to find the average income since 1960, and the corresponding cost of fuel.
> 
> It was harder than I expected, and I couldn't find reliable figures for diesel until 1988, so had to stick with petrol - and have shown the prices per litre.
> 
> ...


Those figures, presumably per litre, have got to be wrong. at 4.54 litres per gallon and 12,5p being 2/6 in old money that has a gallon in 1960 at over 10 bob. I remember it at 4/11 when I was 8 in 1964.

I am sure it was 30p per gallon when i got my first car in 1974 as it took 5 gallons and i still have my account book showing that it cost £1,50 to fill

I think the early figures are per gallon and the later ones are per litre

By the way diesel here is £1.47.9 per litre

finally given that the suggested prices are in pence per litre the percentages are out by a factor of 100


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, filled up on return from Newark and worked out at 35p per mile to move 4 of us + one parrot and 4.5 tonnes of motorhome so I dont suppose it is too bad :roll:


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

According to the AA motoring trust website petrol in 1974 was 49.60p per gallon.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

thieawin said:


> finally given that the suggested prices are in pence per litre the percentages are out by a factor of 100


I did say I wasn't at all sure if they were accurate. :roll:

I would be very interested (and so would lots of others I guess) to see a set of accurate figures, so if you can produce them, please do. 

I found it difficult to get verifiable data.

Dave


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

http://www.ukpia.com/files/pdf/ip-historical-series.pdf

Petrol 1902 to 1994 per gallon

If you visit www.ukpia.com/ you will find petrol and diesel prices post 1994 but its in about 6 different tables

I was right about 4/11 per gallon, but clearly out on 30p. It was 50p.

So in 1964 petrol was about 5p per litre which on an income of 793 gives a %age of 0.0063%

and in 2011 at 26,000 and 135 per litre = 0.0052%
and in IOM at 147.9 0.0057%


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

> I was right about 4/11 per gallon, but clearly out on 30p. It was 50p.


Petrol in the late 60's was under 5 shillings (say 4/11d) a GALLON that is less than 25p in today's money, so I make that 5.5p per litre.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

go vist the link above

in early 1964 it was between 4/2 standard and 4/9 premium

The only real price changes after Suez, for 18 years were caused by taxation changes. By 1969 it was 5/7 to 6/3 and by 1969/70 6/6 and 7/-

And those prices are non discount. In the '60's there was a glut and certainly in the North West and Yorkshire lots of discount retailers

I reckon as a percentage of gross income the price is about the same 50 years on, cars more efficient and of course the direct tax burden now is actually lower, personal allowances are higher. Standard tax was 8/3, I seem to recall, but N.I. was much lower. Even then over half and sometimes 2/3rds of the per gallon price was Tax.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Thieawin, 
Not that it has anything to do with the thread of this forum item but it is a fact that petrol was 1 or 2p cheaper in the IOM in the 60's and early 70's so I don't understand how it has now become more expensive. Annoying isn't it.
It has always puzzled me why people concentrate on fuel costs when,for most people, the greatest expense comes in the form of depreciation, Insurance, Road Tax etc


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## Euramobilly (Apr 3, 2010)

Thieawin, I think you were right about the post-decimal prices at least. (Unless my long term-memory is getting as bad as my short-term.) :lol: When I gleefully filled up my shiny new Yamaha FSIE with two star on the morning of my sixteenth Birthday in July 1973 I paid 28p per gallon. And it only held just over one gallon.

I was so keen I rode the bloody thing all day, 110 miles! On a moped!


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

BillCreer said:


> Thieawin,
> Not that it has anything to do with the thread of this forum item but it is a fact that petrol was 1 or 2p cheaper in the IOM in the 60's and early 70's so I don't understand how it has now become more expensive. Annoying isn't it.
> It has always puzzled me why people concentrate on fuel costs when,for most people, the greatest expense comes in the form of depreciation, Insurance, Road Tax etc


We had a 6d per gallon fuel duty rebate in those days

Remember in UK fuel prices were fixed, then capped at a maximum and there were zones, ie 20 miles from refinery, further and remote, in rough terms, post WW2, with retail price maintenance and 3d per gallon retail margin guaranteed

According to the table I posted a link to above, remembering we had 2 star to 5 star petrol prices ranged as follows
start 1973 35p to 38p per gallon
end 1973 40p to 43p
start 1974 48p to 51p
end 1974 71p to 74p

A doubling in two years is a lot tougher than we have now.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

What it really boils down to is we have a bigger fuel consumption now as we travel in Motor/homes and not a ford Dagenham Donkey.
And we travel the length and breadth of the UK and beyond not just to the shops, work, and Mothers on a Sunday.
So really thats the change and not the price of the fuel.
Plus running one+ car as well.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Petrol*

Dave

It's a good post with some good facts and figures. The thing with petrol though, we all seem to recall what it used to cost.

When I passed my test - 35p per litre
A few years later - 55p per litre - I remember that price as I was filling up daily at the time due to mileage!
Summer 2009 - 99.9p

Now a loaf of Warburtons is £1.20 today, I have no idea what it was 21 years ago!

Russell


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

The thing with looking at figures is that figures can be made to be what you want them to be and using simple comparisons do not give an accurate overall picture.

If you really want to make petrol to look cheap then do one with computer printer ink and you will be searching for a way of converting your epson to petrol :lol: 

Of course another comparison might be obtained by asking a trucker. Without even knowing the facts I would guess that a trucker moving a cargo of, for example carrots for tescos will have made a lot more profit over cost of fuel twenty years ago than he is now.

In the instance of petrol I will stick to a result based on emotion and my emotions tell me its far too expensive

stew


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

What we rarely take into consideration is our 'disposable income'.
Back in the 60s we still saved up for life's little luxuries. Now most of us have the ability to buy whatever takes our fancy.

We kick up about paying £40 to £60 to fill the tank but often blow that on a meal we don't need.

Ray.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

I must move to be near you, if that is all it takes to fill a tank!

My landrover Discovery is £110, my partners Audi TT is £100 and the motorhome is £100 for a tank full

However on an Island 37 x 10 we cannot go very far, but hit the UK, killer!

But generally I agree. When I got my first car, in my first year at Uni, my grant was £405, I paid £375 for the car and 50p per gallon for petrol. Beer in the Student Union bar was 11p per pint. I lived in a very run down student house, tempted to decribe it as a squat, but we did pay rent, just. All my friends were students, we had little disposable income and I was the only one in my Law class with a car. My law books that year cost me over 25% of my grant. Ist term was a struggle


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## Dill (Jun 3, 2010)

My Lad can go out on a Saturday night with his mates and blow £100 without working up a sweat. When you look at the cost of a pint £3.25, it makes diesel look cheap at £1.40 per ltr. 

Regards

Dill


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks to everybody, and Thieawin for adding a lot more detail.

_(Sorry about the 100% (senile  ) error in the calculations, but it didn't matter for the purpose of comparison.)_

The point I was trying to make is that fuel prices don't seem to have really altered all that much over the years when taken as a proportion of income.

Ray's comment about disposable income is a good one, and very significant.

Dill's lad certainly seems to have plenty! 8O Wish I could afford to do that. 

Dave :wink:


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I am supplying chemicals and aerosols cheaper than I was 25 years ago.

My new larger digital led all singing and dancing tv cost less than the ten year old one that it relaced.

My replacement laptop was less expensive than the seven year old one and has five times the memory..

Mass production and foreign manufacturing has lead to a lowering of consumer goods prices.

Dave p


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

Going off petrol to beer  I can remember that the night before we went decimal, a pint of beer was one shilling & 8 pence in the local. The next night it was 10p 8O 8O


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## Dill (Jun 3, 2010)

Zebedee said:


> Thanks to everybody, and Thieawin for adding a lot more detail.
> 
> _(Sorry about the 100% (senile  ) error in the calculations, but it didn't matter for the purpose of comparison.)_
> 
> ...


Hi Dave it really pains me to see him blow £100 like that, and I wish I could do the same too. He says you only live once ?????????????

Dill


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Dill said:


> Hi Dave it really pains me to see him blow £100 like that, and I wish I could do the same too. He says you only live once ?????????????
> Dill


Hi Dill

It would pain me too, but he's right of course.

Let's just hope he will have a bit behind him when he wants to retire at 58 (like I did) and buy himself a motorhome (like we all did).

That's the concern I have for the younger generation who only "live for today".

Dave

Off topic - but nearly relevant since I mentioned motorhomes! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

To be fair to the younger generation (and as Im only 45 I can still remember being young, just) they must feel like there is a mighty mountain to climb in order to ever get any money behind them.

The prospect of owning your own home and even getting a mortgage let alone paying it off must seem completely out of reach for many.

I think we were lucky. I was 27 when I got married and the deposit on our first house was £2000, Michelle had saved hard for hers and my mum just bunged me my half. This was only 1992. Mind you we never bought anything on credit, I stopped going out, had one chair and a tv and I lived on £30 a week the year before we got married. We just saved up.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

thieawin said:


> I must move to be near you, if that is all it takes to fill a tank!
> 
> My landrover Discovery is £110, my partners Audi TT is £100 and the motorhome is £100 for a tank full
> 
> ...


Yes, I do beg your pardon Thieawin.
I guess I just bung the deisel in as and when I'm low and it's about £40.
But as my tank is 55L. filling it from absolutely empty would come nearer to £65 today.

Diesel in France being €1.36 or £1.18 at todays exchange rate.

Ray.


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## busterbears (Sep 4, 2010)

I passed my test in 1989 and bought a mark 3 escort for £800, £10 of petrol lasted me about 4 weeks getting to and fro work. I think the disposable income bit is the clincher here, when we bought our first house 1991, mortgage interest rates were really high and we ate spaghetti bolognese without the mince because we couldn't afford it, we only had a microwave because hubby's work wedding gift collection paid for it £280 - when it broke eventually I replaced it with a £30 version, smaller and more efficient. Some things have risen sharply, others not so.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Question is, do I put my prices up? I have to do a job in Liverpool tomorrow which is about 260 miles round trip. Its costing me considerably more to drive around the country to do my work but all my customers are suffering and if anything are asking for price cuts.

So what do you do? As it happens Im charging him the same daily rate I did 5 years ago as I know companies are struggling. Really though I am making a good chunk less with the rising costs of living and fuel.

Luckily most of my work lately has been local and travel costs paid.

I wouldnt like to be the haulage business right now, must be crippling as I suspect they are having the same dilema but on a much bigger scale.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Barry.
Many large companies add a fuel surcharge now. Maybe you could also add a fuel surcharge if outside a certain radius.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Hi Barry.
> Many large companies add a fuel surcharge now. Maybe you could also add a fuel surcharge if outside a certain radius.
> 
> Ray.


I know I should but times are tough. I have some work to quote for in central London which in the past you could charge what you liked but even there its getting tougher. The standard rail fare is about £270 and a cheap hotel is at least £100 and taking car is a nightmare now. This is all costs I have to pass on before I charge them a daily rate.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> raynipper said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Barry.
> ...


Absolute extortion Barry.
If the travel and location costs are so steep might it not be more economic to sub to a local bod?

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > raynipper said:
> ...


Its few and far between now thankfully Ray that I have to do these long trips but its still worthwhile as long as the customer is prepared to pay (which fewer are these days). I do have a local bod for smaller work thats not worth travelling for but I have tried quite hard to stay on local projects in the last couple of years. Problem is most of these are going to the wall as they were government and EU funded so Im stuffed either way!

Cant say Im heartbroken!

See you in France soon!


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