# We're newbies....Please help!!!



## rraf

Hi.We have just purchased a 2002 Fiat Ducato CI Riviera.We have all the paperwork and manuals etc. with the van.When we went to view the van,other people had been playing with the electrics inside so the info panel was showing that the leisure service battery levels were low but nevertheless,there were still lights present on the panel.The service battery however was flat.I went to pick the van up on Thursday and bought it home.Once home,I noticed there are no lights on the panel now.I tried the test buttons and only the water pump works.Also inside,the step light comes on but nothing else inside the living area.Reading the manual,it states that none of the utilities in the living area run off the main starter battery.It says the leisure service battery does all of that.Checked for the leisure battery and there isn't one fitted,yet the pump and the light on steps is still working so that blows what the manual says out of the water!Have now fitted a leisure battery but still nothing in the living area.Have checked the fuses in shunt box behind driver's seat and all seems O.K. there.Totally confused now and really need help.Is there a specific leisure battery that I should be using.I have bought a Numax 85 leisure battery that says starting and deep cycling on the side.Is this O.K?I haven't tried electric H/U because I haven't got a lead as yet.Any help and advice would be most grateful.Thanks.


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## 113016

On our Hymer the electric step and a couple of internal lights work of the engine battery and there is a separate master switch to turn on the rest of the 12 v for the habitation area.
I think that this is pretty standard for most makes.
You need to get a hook up lead asap


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## rraf

There are two switches by the door as you go in.One switches the step light on (and possibly the others if they work) and another switch which doesn't show anything on it as regards markings but doesn't do anything when switched either.We have searched all over for a master switch but cannot find anything.


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## 113016

We also have 2 switches near the entrance.
One for the step & one for a couple of lights.
I would say that there has got to be a 12 v master switch somewhere.
You need someone with the same make M/H to maybe know where the switch is located.


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## erneboy

Hello, I am not familiar with your van but it sounds to me as though your electrics in the habitation area are either switched off or a fuse has blown. There must be a master switch to turn it on and off, or at least there always have been in vans I have owned. Can you ring the person you bought it from and ask him. If not try following the wiring from the leisure battery to see if you can find switches or a control box.

Does the info panel you refer to have any switches or push buttons on it. In mine I need to push one switch followed by another to turn the habitation area power on and off, Alan.


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## rraf

Thank you all for your replies.We bought the van privately from someone who was selling it for a family member.I don't think he has used the van himself so probably pointless asking him.Can't understand why there were lights on the panel when we viewed the van originally and now nothing at all except the water pump switch.I rang and asked if the leisure battery was fitted when we first viewed.They said no, so cannot understand why the lights on the panel were working then when manual says that all systems in living area run off leisure battery.


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## 118130

I agree with other posts in that there must be a master switch somewhere for the 12V. But I'd also add that you need to get a hookup lead and get that battery charged ASAP, firstly you may not know how much charge the battery had in it when you bought it (you need to rule out that the battery isn't flat), but also, when you do get things sorted it's important for the life of the battery to not to let it run completely flat (like I've just done, d'oh! :roll: ), easiest way to do this is keep 12V off when not in use and plug into your hookup now and again when not using it for any length of time.

Good luck!


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## 113016

Have you checked that the Zig (electric control) box usually fitted under one of the cab seats is turned on as there is a master switch on some of them.
But there will almost certainly be another switch somewhere that will say 12V on it or by it.
IF not ring a dealer who sells your make of van


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## rraf

The battery is brand new but I guess this doesn't mean it would be fully charged.We've looked under the seats and in eery cupboard,even in the garage but nothing.There is a trip switch inside a cupboard that is used for electric H/U but nothing to do with the main functions.We're in the process of making up a home hook up lead but if that doesn't shed any light on it,I don't really know what else to do.I will take your advice and ring manufacturer too though there are none in our area I don't think.We haven't had much luck with dealers.They tend to look at us as hillbillies and walk off to do the hard sell on other, dare I say, respectable retired folks! :roll:


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## rraf

Can anyone tell me if there is a specific battery I should be using or should any leisure battery be sufficient to get me up and running?


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## 113016

rraf said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a specific battery I should be using or should any leisure battery be sufficient to get me up and running?


Any leisure battery will get you up & running, but the larger Amp hour will last longer.
Can you check the switches again on the control box and also the zig unit.


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## 118130

rraf said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a specific battery I should be using or should any leisure battery be sufficient to get me up and running?


Just as long as it's a leisure battery and not a car engine battery then you're good to go! (Even so, both should work for the purpose of what you're trying to do, you just don't want to be using an engine battery for leisure use as they're designed for short high current bursts, no good for leisure use).


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi rraf,

We have an Autoroller (which is made by the same company as your van I think), there is a master switch for the leisure battery in the guise of a big red turn key at the side of the Passenger Seat. If this is switched off we get nothing from the Leisure Battery. It is worth a look to see if it is the same on yours.

If you have a multimeter I would also be inclided to test some of the 12v devices just in case you have a bad earth or a short somewhere.

Good luck with it.


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## Kees

Hi rraf

The Numax 85 battery is fine for use as a leisure battery.

Good luck

Kees


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## 113016

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi rraf,
> 
> We have an Autoroller (which is made by the same company as your van I think), there is a master switch for the leisure battery in the guise of a big red turn key at the side of the Passenger Seat. If this is switched off we get nothing from the Leisure Battery. It is worth a look to see if it is the same on yours.
> 
> If you have a multimeter I would also be inclided to test some of the 12v devices just in case you have a bad earth or a short somewhere.
> 
> Good luck with it.


 I thought that I was the only one with one of those type  also it could have fallen out and you will have a round hole about half an inch (max) where it fits


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## 113016

The red bit is the key
http://www.google.co.uk/products?cl...a=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Grath said:


> The red bit is the key
> http://www.google.co.uk/products?cl...a=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4


Hi Grath,

Yep, ours as fell out before now also.


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## 113016

Hi, they sometimes fall out while driving as when turned off there is nothing to keep the key in (bumpy roads and all that)


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## rraf

Thank you for everyone's replies and help.I'm still looking round the van but cannot find anywhere that would have a key fitted into it as described in the aforementioned posts.I have been under all the seats but nothing.All the fuses are fine.I cannot follow the wiring from the battery back to the control panel as it all disappears under the floor as soon as it leaves the main cab.Just when I thought I was getting a bargain,I am realising perhaps it wasn't afterall.I think it would help if I had diagrams to go by but the manual is just covering Fiat in general such as vans etc.not a specific model.As for the living space,it is nothing like the one I have so no hope of following instructions.The rest is all in Italian!LOL!You don't suppose some bright spark has wired it all through the main engine battery do you?


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hello,

I suppose at the worst case scenario is that you have to "re-route" the feed to the 12v system from your new leisure battery. It does'nt sound like too big a job, and if it isn't something you would be comfortable doing yourself I don't think it would cost the earth to let a professional have a look at for you.

GOOD LUCK with it.


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## rraf

Right...now to throw in even more confusion.We've just done mains H/U and there are two lights showing on the panel that a) the water tank is 100% full and b) the battery level is 100%....but still nothing working elsewhere.Grrrrrr!


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## Ian_n_Suzy

hello,

I think your going to go round in circles unless you have some kind of multimeter to work your way aroung and find just whats going on.

I had a Swift 590 and I found a similar fault with that when I first got her home. Couldn't find any fuses blown, battery charged, gauges reading OK, etc.

It was a bad earth coming out from the control panel to the 12v system. I had to do nothing more than moves the wires and it came on. Was fine after that first time

Good Luck


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## eddied

Ciao, as a complete tecnophobe & electrickeryphobe, dare I suggest you check if any rocker switch on/off where the EHU comes in, often located in wardrobe or cupboard.
saluti,
eddied


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## 117518

I have a Carioca 656 not sure if the panel above the door is the same, the first button on the panel switches 12v to the habitation area, when pressed you can hear a relay click in.

Double check the fuses in the black box behind the drivers seat if you cant hear this,

Not sure of your model so this might have been of little use, but I tried.

Ian


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## Spwt

Shw'mae rraf,
We've got the same model as you. As spider 1 said, you press the first button on the panel switch to activate the lights.
Pressing the test button twice shows the level of charge in the vehicle battery.
I'm a bit puzzled about the light showing the water tank full. Is that the vertical row of lights to the left of the test button ( drinking water tank ) or the single one above them ( waste water tank)?
The two big switches by the door on the left, turn on the two big lights and operate the electric step. We never bother with the step in case it sticks in the out position, as we heard they often fail, and use a little folding steps instead.
Came back from Germany in ours yesterday.So don't worry, they do work.
Pob lwc.


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## 113016

I wouldn't worry too much at this stage, the odds are that you just haven't found the switch.
keep asking and I am sure that someone will have the exact model or know where the switch is located.
Could it be similar to the guys above?


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## rraf

Hi and thanks for your help.We don't have electric step only in built ones.The two big switches- one on the right (nearest the door) turns the step light on nothing else.The left hand switch doesn't do anything.This is the same with h/u as well as on battery. On h/u all three pin outlets are working fine but no integrated lights work anywhere except stair well as mentioned.The water pump when switched on on the panel works but is noisy.The F/W tank is full and it reads so on the panel,though last time we pressed the panel,the grey water tank read full,but it's not.We've been through everything we can see and couldn't see.I've even had the sink out to check the earth on those two big switches near the door.Confused with accent lights in window recess.Don't seem to have any wiring to them.Looked inside cupboards too.Rang the bloke who sold us the van and as I expected,he had never used it and stated he didn't realise it was supposed to have a second battery!Duh!Sent me off on a wild goose chase in the wardrobe but it's only the heater unit under there which I can access through the garage.He then put the phone down on me so I guess he doesn't want to know eh? Am calling it a day now because my husband is probably going to kill me some time soon if we carry on!!! IF anyone has any other suggestions,I would appreciate any advice.Thanks to one and all for all your input.Guess we'll be camping on the drive this summer!!!Diolch am popeth


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## 113016

I have posted a call for help on the Wildcamping site just in case someone knows where the switch is located


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## rraf

Oh thank you very much Grath.That's much appreciated.


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## twinky

rraf

I know it means spending a bit more money but wouldnt you just be better off taking your van to a recommended autoelectrician or motorhome repairer in your locality? It is in all probability a simple fix and would put your mind at rest.

Im sure someone could recommend one for you.

Good luck


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## Motorhomersimpson

Hi rraf 

A picture means a lot so I have found what I believe is the panel fitted to your motorhome. If it is this one it will help members see what you're on about when you mentioned the buttons  

I had a CI Mizar but it had a different panel to yours so no point me guessing, very strange there is no habitation battery? I was going suggest to try on mains because there were lights on when you bought it but you have tried that.

I do remember that each individual light can be switched off by a rocker switch on the light itself, I don't wish to sound rude but you have checked the lights are switched on. Try something requiring 12volts if you do not have access to a multi-meter and see if there is power through the 12v socket.

Good luck and don't panic  I'm sure there is an easy explanation as to what is happening :wink: 

Picture I think of the panel fitted CI around yr 2001/2002:

MHS...Rob


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## 113016

Grath said:


> I have posted a call for help on the Wildcamping site just in case someone knows where the switch is located


Just received an answer and on a 2001 CI Riviera the switch is built into the control panel above the sink.
I have asked for more exact details.

You may get direct replies as I have now posted a link to your original post.


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## rraf

Good Morning!Many thanks for your replies.The control panel in your photo isn't the same as ours so I've been out and taken imges of ours to show you in sequence what happens.

*Image A* - No Hook Up, Just battery...no lights whatsoever,although the water pump will function because it's wired to the main engine battery I guess.

*Image B*- With Hook Up - Panel shows that battery is full and that the fresh water tank is full.However,looking at it now,is it showing that the main engine battery is full or the leisure battery.(See C)

*Image C* - With Hook Up - I've switched the water pump on here and it is now lighting up extra lights on battery and fresh water levels.

When we went to view the van,the lights were on as shows in image C.
This brings me to conclude that I am running the water system on the main engine battey,that the leisure battery is not having any effect at all on anything.So when I viewed the van initially,there was enough charge left in the main engine battery and someone had pressed the button for the water pump and not switched it off.
When I press the test switch on the panel,nothing happens.When I press the lights swtich on the panel,nothing happens.

As for the lights,the main ones(top right in image) are not switched on each unit.They must come on as someone explained in previous post with the two big switches by the door(bottom of image).There are smaller switched lights(top left in image) all around the windows and the rear sleeping area but I can't even find wiring for them outside the cupboard or inside the cupboard.There isn't any obvious way of opening the shields to check the bulbs either.

As someone has suggested,I think I will have to take it to auto electrician and let them fathom out what is wrong.

Thank you.


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## 113016

From the image it looks like the second switch is the habitation area switch as it shows an outline of the habitation area.
Not counting the black (looks like a )12 volt socket on the far left.
If when you press that switch the light does not illumanate you have a problem nearer to the battery.
Have you checked the zig box (blue) under the cab seats for a master switch and also any fuses there?
The water system usually runs of the leisure battery but as you say it normally has a separate switch so that you can turn it off when running on 12 v and leaving the van unoccupied for a few hours.


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## rraf

Yes,it is,but nothing works when you press that button.
We tried everything yesterday on ehu and everything works including fridge.Haven't got a gas bottle fitted yet but the boiler switch comes on so that is functioning.The only things that don't work are the lights.You'd assume simply a fuse has blown but we've changed all of those and still nothing.Another query.(sorry) if the water pump is running off the main engine battery,does that mean that even on ehu it is still going to drain the main engine battery as the ehu doesn't charge main battery only leisure? Is that correct? Wonder if someone has done a rewire and bodged it up.
Had a look again for "zig" box...can't find one.Do you mean shunt box behind the driver's seat?A black box with fuses sat in the top of it.We've changed all the fuses but still no joy.

Definately think that water pump is wired to the main battery,not leisure.


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## clodhopper2006

rraf said:


> *Image B*- With Hook Up - Panel shows that battery is full and that the fresh water tank is full.However,looking at it now,is it showing that the main engine battery is full or the leisure battery.(See C)


No it doesn't and I wonder if this is where the confusion lies. When you are on hook up the indication you are seeing is that your battery charger is applying a voltage to both battery. It is not showing that the battery is full.

When you are not on hook up the panel shows the battery charge level when the panel is switched on. There must be a way to switch on the power from either the vehicle or leisure battery when not on hook up.
Forgive me I've not read the full thread but have you tried taking your leisure battery out of the van and charging it from another charger?

Bob


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## 113016

rraf said:


> Yes,it is,but nothing works when you press that button.
> We tried everything yesterday on ehu and everything works including fridge.Haven't got a gas bottle fitted yet but the boiler switch comes on so that is functioning.The only things that don't work are the lights.You'd assume simply a fuse has blown but we've changed all of those and still nothing.Another query.(sorry) if the water pump is running off the main engine battery,does that mean that even on ehu it is still going to drain the main engine battery as the ehu doesn't charge main battery only leisure? Is that correct? Wonder if someone has done a rewire and bodged it up.


When our Hymer is on hook up it charges both batteries (trickle to engine), however all makes are not the same.
Check again for that switch on the zig, probably on the far left.
I find it strange that the water pump works off the engine battery.


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## rraf

Leisure battery is brand new yesterday.Take the leisure battery out and water pump still works.Not good if you've got to run the engine whilst having a shower eh? Would this be easily rectified by MH surgeon do you think?

No zig box as you describe it just black box with several fuses in it.We've changed all of them and nothing.No master switch there either.Would have thought master switch would be in easy reach?


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## 113016

rraf said:


> Leisure battery is brand new yesterday.Take the leisure battery out and water pump still works.Not good if you've got to run the engine whilst having a shower eh? Would this be easily rectified by MH surgeon do you think?
> 
> No zig box as you describe it just black box with several fuses in it.We've changed all of them and nothing.No master switch there either.Would have thought master switch would be in easy reach?


Yes that would be easy for an auto electrician.
We desperately need some CI owners input about this.


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## 113016

rraf said:


> No zig box as you describe it just black box with several fuses in it.We've changed all of them and nothing.No master switch there either.Would have thought master switch would be in easy reach?


I would not worry about not having the blue zig as you obviously have a different box that should do the same job.
Our previous Hymer had a Zig but our present Hymer has a different control box and not fitted under the cab seats.
It works the same though.

One final thought, could there be a press in re set button on the box that you have?


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## clodhopper2006

Is there an inline fuse on the leisure battery pos lead? Confirm with a meter there is >12v on the output side of this fuse. Confirm with a meter there is continuity between the neg lead and earth.


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## rraf

We've just had engine hood open and there are two wires going to each terminal.Is that usual?Has someone bypassed having leisure battery and decided that they will use ehu with table lamps instead of integrated,use the shower blocks on site,do their washing up and then go for a drive to charge the engine battery up? I guess someone could "cut corners" to save money though a totally absurd way of doing things in my opinion.
Cannot find any inline fuses,switches other than aforementioned.
I must admit this is causing a bit of tension here now!

There was someone else posting on this topic with he same CI in Wales but as I'm new,I don't know how or if I can contact them.They have just come back from Germany so probably don't need this hassle.Will take to auto electrician and give them a laugh.They'll know doubt put it down to something simple and blame me for being female as usual!


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## rraf

Also,must add.We disconnected the leisure battery and the water pump still works as mentioned before but the panel is reading that the battery is 2/3 full now so has drained a little.I would have thought that the battery signal showing on the panel is the reading for the leisure battery as according to the manual it states that nothing in the habitaiton area functions on the main service battery only off the leisure battery.As we now know that isn't true,the reading on the panel that should show leisure battery levels,but is actual reading the battery levels on the main engine battery.I hope this make sense.You know what you are trying to convey but I fear it may be a bit garbled.!


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## 113016

Hi rraf,
so sorry that I have not been able to help and as you say, the previous owner might have done a modification.
Seems strange though  
We still need someone with a similar van to confirm the way that theirs works!
If you do have to take it to an auto electrician, I would try to find one that has knowledge of motorhomes.
I did get a couple of replies on Wildcamping and still waiting for more.
All the best.


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## rraf

Thanks Grath for all your advice.Will post when I find out what is wrong!


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## BJT

I suggest you go to the CI Motorhomes web-site, ci-motorhomes.co.uk, and find your nearest authorised dealer. I believe you are in N Wales, there is one listed with a 'LL' postcode.
So before your problem drives you completely bananas, phone your nearest dealer and ask if you can take your lovely new (to you) MH to their premises for an explanation of how everything works. If there are problems, and it sounds from the number of posts that there is one, they may be able sort out any spares needed to get you up and running 100%. Just be aware that if they do not have the requisite parts in stock it can take some time to obtain them from the wholesaler, especially if for a continental made van, as yours. 
Good luck, and hopefully soon happy MHing. 
PS you made a good first move by joining this bunch of lunatics known as motorhomefacts!! :roll: :roll:


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## rraf

Many thanks for that.Will look up the CI specialist in our area...and really glad I joined up on MHF....everyone seems very helpful and genuine too.Cheers


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

It's a petty all was'nt "working properly" from the Engine Battery as a "Quick Fix" could have been to remove the modified wires fed from the Engine Battery and feed them to the Leisure Battery.

That said, unless you have checked what they are feeding they could be to an Alarm System, or other add-on device.

One thing is for sure rraf, when you do get it sussed you will have a great understanding of your 12v system. Should anything ever go wrong whilst miles from anywhere, you will have a good chance of putting it right yourself.

Sorry I am no help, but it'll get sorted.


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## rraf

Hi.I thought that too...if all was working off the main engine battery then it wouldbe a case of re-routing to leisure battery,but then again would the engine battery have enough power to get lights going with everything else too?

QUOTE:I suggest you go to the CI Motorhomes web-site, ci-motorhomes.co.uk, and find your nearest authorised dealer. I believe you are in N Wales, there is one listed with a 'LL' postcode.

Have been onto the local dealer's website but only list parts available-suggest servicing wouldbe done elsewhere.

Worried now that I'm going to have to rip all the flooring up to solve this!Yikes!


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Found another post on here with this image that may be of some interest.










It came from this post which also may be of some interest.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-518702.html


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## rraf

Wow,thanks for that image/post.It is easier when someone shows you pictures of what to dur manual is mostly in Italian and very dated.Thankyou.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi, hope it is of some use. It wasn't my photo though, another member posted it on another thread.

I have had a good look at that control panel and it is "basically" the same as in my Rollerteam (same company as CI). We have only had her a couple of months but when we first got her the Turbo Vent was'nt working.

I removed the shroud from the panel and then removed the 4 screws and this gave me easy access to the back of the panel to find the fault. A quick test with the multimeter showed that we were only getting a low voltage to the Vent (circa 9v - 10v). As was the problem with my Swift 590 (mentioned earlier). It was nothing other than a bad earth and the thing kicked into life after removing and then immediately putting back on the spade clips.

It seems to me bad earths can be common on these things, may be worth a little look if you are confident with a screwdriver and meter.

I honestly suspect somwhere down the line there is a very simple fix for your problems (I hope so anyway). I think a competent Auto Spark would have you up and running in no time.

GOOD LUCK


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## Stanner

That panel is the same as my Carioca 15P - the left hand button on the panel next to the 12v socket has to be pressed and the LED above it lit for anything to work off the leisure battery.
So if anything that should work off the leisure battery (lights, pump etc.) works when the light over the first button ISN'T lit somebody has bu66ered around with the wiring.

It sounds to me like the leisure battery died and the previous users couldn't be bothered/were too tight to buy another one and just "hot wired" it to run the pump off the main battery.

So my advice FWIW....

Charge the leisure battery off vehicle if you can, check it's voltage so you know it's OK and refit it. That then eliminates the leisure battery being duff from the equation.

While the leisure battery is charging, check for any "obviously non-standard" wires (i.e. loose ones outside of any looms or any with "Scotchlock" (Ugggh Pooh) connectors), disconnect them and check if the pump still works. 
If you can find out where the hot wiring (if any) is you should be halfway to sorting it out.

Hopefully you can find the hot wiring (if any) and disconnect it and then once you've refitted the (now fully charged) leisure battery press the left hand button (next to the 12v socket) and the LED above it should light up.

If it does then everything 12v in the habitation area should now work.

Unless of course anything has been disconnected as part of the suspected hacking of the system.


PS I hope you got it at a really good price?


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## rraf

Stanner said:


> It sounds to me like the leisure battery died and the previous users couldn't be bothered/were too tight to buy another one and just "hot wired" it to run the pump off the main battery.
> 
> PS I hope you got it at a really good price?


Thanks for the advice.I agree,the more we look at it,the more we think someone has been changing the wiring.Just found that the heater is now running with power from the engine battery too so it does sound like the whole thing is running from the main battery.Leisure battery is still charged but when you apply the connecters to the terminals there is no spark so assuming that the leads to the leisure battery go nowhere!! Anyone know where they connect to for us to check?Are they a different colour perhaps?
I'm losing the plot.
Yes,I thought it was a good price and although this is confusing the hell out of us,we hope it will be simple enought to resolve without too much expense and we can get on and enjoy using it.


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## Stanner

If the system is already being powered from the main battery you are unlikely to get any "sparking" as the circuit will already be at 12v.

This is why you have to find the link - if one has be made - and break it, so that the leisure circuit behaves properly and on it's own, not as an appendix to the main system.


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## 113016

*Thought*

Just a thought :? 
I have seen vans advertised with only one battery and a leisure battery as an extra  
I wonder if this van has ever had one fitted?


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## rraf

*Re: Thought*



Grath said:


> Just a thought :?
> I have seen vans advertised with only one battery and a leisure battery as an extra
> I wonder if this van has ever had one fitted?


We're assuming it has had one fitted before at some point but it has been some time since there was one (if any) because there were no markings that one has been fitted recently....ie loads of settled dust!
How would you run a van on just one battery? Surely it would drain really quickly? We are not sure if the ehu overrides all fixtures when on because the lights won't come on.


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## 113016

*Re: Thought*



rraf said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought :?
> I have seen vans advertised with only one battery and a leisure battery as an extra
> I wonder if this van has ever had one fitted?
> 
> 
> 
> We're assuming it has had one fitted before at some point but it has been some time since there was one (if any) because there were no markings that one has been fitted recently....ie loads of settled dust!
> How would you run a van on just one battery? Surely it would drain really quickly? We are not sure if the ehu overrides all fixtures when on because the lights won't come on.
Click to expand...

A guy on Wildcamping answered and his CI turns to 12 v automatically when not on hook up.
I suppose that if someone uses hook up all of the time then they may get away with just the one battery.


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## Spwt

Hi rraf,
Sorry, been away from computer.
The picture of the panel from Ian n Suzy is exactly the same as ours and I expect yours. Everything in the habitation area should be powered by the leisure battery.
Switch A allows you to turn on the interior lights.
Switch C turns the pump on and yes, it is noisy.
Press switch D to show state of charge of leisure battery and water tank levels, press it twice to show charge in vehicle battery.
As Stanner says, it sounds very much like somebody has tampered with the wiring, changing some stuff to the vehicle battery.
I know nothing about electrics so can't help with that ,sorry.
It might help to know that leaving the MH on hook up for 4 or 5 hours charges the vehicle battery as well as the leisure battery.
That might be significant to those on here who understand vehicle electrics.
Don't despair, it's all very daunting at first, but I'm sure it will work out.


----------



## Spwt

Me again,

Forgot to suggest you look at the directories drop down menu on the main page.

There's a couple of dealers in Clwyd, if you are near there. Abergele and Wrecsam I think.

Why not give them a call tomorrow and explain the dilemma?

Going to work now, back tomorrow morning.

Cheers,


----------



## rraf

Hi all,Just returned from dealer (not CI though) in Abergele and they do servicing there but we're arranging for an electrician to browse over it first to see if he can muster the problem before we get a huge bill from Threeways!!

Grath- Guess some people do manage on one battery especially if you use
ALL the facilities on site.I've seen lots of people using the site facilities for absolutely everything and then if you move from one site to the next each day,I guess all gets recharged.
Spwt- We have the same panel as was shown in previous post but we're only get lights on the lines of lights-showing the full battery (though which one?I think the main engine one) and lights on the water level shwoing full.When we press water pump,that light comes on and water is fine but this is running of main engine battery.No other lights are showing even with ehu-nothing else.Really getting to me.

I cannot fathom out why when on ehu,the lights don't come on when everything else does.We removed a fuse for the water pump to check that the shunt box was functioning and the pump stopped so no problems there.We've checked the bulbs and apart from one of a duo,they're all O.K. and the step light works.

Still on the brighter side,apart from the electrics being a little,say wonky,going on the prices at Threeways,we got a good deal with this one.They are asking £18k for a 4 berth T reg peugeot there.Ridculous.They must be shifting them though because there are loads of new MH in stock since we went two weeks ago.

Thanks again to all for your input.It's much appreciated.


----------



## BJT

You are doing well tracking this problem and I hope the electrician at the dealers can sovle it! Experience and knowing what to look for is a big part of sorting out this type of problem.
Reminds me of a proverb, every great journey starts with one small step.
Keep walking and eventually you will get there.


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

rraf said:


> .No other lights are showing even with ehu-nothing else.Really getting to me.


Hi,

Im stating the obvious but bringing it up "just in case".

When you put the EHU on, you do then press the button marked A in the image I linked to earlier? This is the master switch for the lights and even if on hook-up you also need to press this before switching any lights on.

If this doesn't work you got to question is there a fault at the control panel?

GOOD LUCK (Again)


----------



## 113016

Hi rraf,
You never stop when you have a m/h as always lots of jobs to do and the house suffers.
I have just spent all day washing & polishing including the roof and including washing the awning, inside & out.
Totally kna88ered now, so about to unwind with a little or a lot of vino  
One less job to do before we go to France 
I do hope that you get sorted quickly


----------



## GerryD

First thing to do on Monday is to contact Andrew Davies at CI/Autotrail on 01472 571000. He is very helpful and knowledgeable. Sent me a detailed PDF for the wiring and control panel on our CI.
After that the best two dealers in the country for CI are Danum Leisure and Geoff Cox. Both of them are excellent dealers who are dedicated to CI and know everything about them. 
Gerry


----------



## rraf

Have pressed EVERYTHING!!!!LOL! Nothing happens except water pump.I keep popping out to see if the MH has had a change of heart and decided to play ball...but sadly no!
If I had a manual I could read,I'm sure it would be easier.Do they do Haynes type manuals for MHs?
As for the house Grath...it can clean itself....all I want to do is get going..even if it's half an hour away in Snowdonia for a night!!
I used to tow our tourer but haven't been away for two years and since then have lost confidence in towing plus seeing so many accidents with tourers being tipped over...scary.I talked to my husband and decided the best thing was to buy a MH so it's all in one.I've got to think positively though and just put this down to a slight hiccup haven't I?It's super to drive,the family love it and I can reverse it in one into our drive without taking the neighbours walls out too!!!BONUS!
Thanks GerryD for the phone numbers too.Much appreciated.

Lynne


----------



## olive

The image from Ian and Suzy is from our Rollerteam, but as they ask .... you are switching button A ON aren't you???

If the Mizar is wired same as Rollerteam then water pump is from leisure battery NOT engine battery


----------



## rraf

Hi Olive,
Yes,I've pressed the switch marked A and nothing with or without the EHU.My water pump is definately wired up to the engine battery but as mentioned,I suspect someone has deliberately done this...though why,I can't say.


----------



## GerryD

We only had our 2001 CI Riviera for 5 months and it is a distant memory, but from what I recall it changed automatically between the engine battery and the leisure battery according to whether the engine was running or not. Also, if I remember rightly there are no mains operated devices other than the mains sockets. That is in line with current CIs
Gerry


----------



## rraf

I seriously think that someone has perhaps "adapted" the electrical system to suit their needs but alas it does not suit ours.Hoping that all will get sorted out very soon,though frustrating and costly no doubt!


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

Any joy with this yet?


----------



## rraf

Hi,No nothing yet.We're getting someone to look over the electrics on Thursday.Will post when I get any news.Thanks.


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

rraf said:


> Hi,No nothing yet.We're getting someone to look over the electrics on Thursday.Will post when I get any news.Thanks.


K, Fingers Crossed it's an easy job.


----------



## rraf

I've got EVERYTHING crossed!!!LOL!!!

All I can think about is the children finishing school on Friday and me desperately wanting this van to function normally so we can all enjoy the holidays together.Trying to work out what it could be is taking over my every thought...at this rate the only place I'll be going is the local psychiatric unit! Wibble!


----------



## 113016

Please let us know what the problem was.
kind regards


----------



## rraf

I'll definately post what the problem was.No doubt someone will need the info themselves sometime and sharing the info helps all round.I've been really grateful for everyone's advice on here.
Thanks.


----------



## Motorhomersimpson

rraf said:


> I'll definately post what the problem was.No doubt someone will need the info themselves sometime and sharing the info helps all round.I've been really grateful for everyone's advice on here.
> Thanks.


Hi,

you're so correct when you say sharing information helps, although you're probably pulling your hair out at this very minute, your updating on this thread is very helpful for anyone with similar problems in the future :wink:

I said earlier in this thread it will probably be something simple and staying positive, I'll keep that thought 

Clever avatar by the way, made me laugh once I worked it out, I just need to let the blood return from head now :lol:

MHS...Rob


----------



## rraf

The Story So Far:

This morning the electrician set about testing various outlets/points for voltage and many didn't give a reading at all.He tested the connections on the leisure battery..no reading off that either so we now know that it isn't even in the electrical loop as yet.
Took the front off the control panel over the door to check wiring...oh boy..tons of wiring and double circuit board but with no definate diagram to follow he couldn't do an assessment on anything in there.He did test the voltage on the 12v cigarette lighter type outlet and nothing in there either.......so we're doing well!!
After four hours of crawling around testing,the conclusion was rather dismal.
Now,no doubt someone can verify this for me.Under the driver's seat (literally) is a board with relays and other wiring.He (sparky) suggests that someone has put this board in themselves -not the original when van was new as there are pipe clips(?) which professional wouldn't use?Way over my head but it does look gash...however someone may point out that this actually IS original.(Photo below)
It is REALLY awkward to get to unless we remove the seat under there.However,he decided to have one last look under there and test some of the relays.The main one in the centre had various wires going to it so he put in multimeter...no reading.He decided to remove wires individually from this relay and test one by one but they were stuck fast....then all of a sudden a bare wire end (red/black) was exposed.This wire was not crimped just stuffed into clip,then on inspection the other end of this wire came away.The wire (red/black) was about 2" long and he said that it has been used to short the relay but couldn't work out why it had been done.It wasn't a professional job let's say that!He removed the whole relay and tested it-dead.
We've now ordered a new relay...hopefully here tomorrow to refit tomorrow and then maybe we'll find out why someone has shorted this relay.
One thing to note though-as I mentioned before,the step light and water pump were working on the main engine battery and on EHU but only them tow on both systems.With this relay removed,nothing in the habitation area functions at all.So fingers crossed that replacing this relay with bring my poor MH to life again or at least show up what the main fault is.

Click on the photo to enlarge the dust!!!I promise you the rest of the van isn't as bad!

...to be continued.

P.S....When using ele. toilet flush on MH where does water come from?On the tourer I used to fill on seperate access but haven't got one on here.Does it come from FW tank?
Plus,excuse my ignorance as I'm used to a wastemaster but how on earth do you empty grey water tank.I've found the lever which looks like victorian stately home bell pull.Do you just aim over a drain and pull? Surely not? I have a piece of garden hose underneath the van too...does this come into the equation somehow?I bet you're all sitting there now saying.OMG...she's bought a right crock!


----------



## olive

Hello Lynne ... and co

I think there is more missing than just a relay.... the underseat rats nest ..... also fitted to our Rollerteam house the charger as well as the relays etc.

It looks as though someone has taken out the charger bit .. made I think by Nordelettronica and wired the engine battery toone of the connection boxes.

I don't have a proper manual ... and I suspect neither does anyone else, but the missing bit controls the charging of the leisure battery from both the mains and the engine ( when moving).

I think you should take this up with whoever sold you the motorhome.


Stuart


----------



## Stanner

rraf said:


> Under the driver's seat (literally) is a board with relays and other wiring.He (sparky) suggests that someone has put this board in themselves -not the original when van was new as there are pipe clips(?) which professional wouldn't use?Way over my head but it does look gash...however someone may point out that this actually IS original.(Photo below)


I can assure you that is exactly the same as the board under the passenger seat of my Carioca 15P and that has exactly the same control panel as your van.

To much of a coincidence for both vans to have been bodged in exactly the same manner, so it must be original I guess.

Edit Must look closer - next time.
Board is the same, but bits on it vary - A LOT.

Lots are missing.


----------



## rraf

Hi Stuart,
We did wonder if there was other stuff missing,but manual (such as it is) suggests that charger/transformer is in side panel at skirting level in dinette area.
The "manual" states "refer to manual for wiring set up!!!LOL!

The only thing we have with any info in, is a rather cheap photocopied pile of A4 papers in a CI file.I'm at a loss and am now as bald as the bloke in MotorHomer's avatar!!

As for contacting the bloke who sold it me...no chance.I phoned him the other day to say the leisure battery was mossing and he put the phone down on me.! Anyway,he was selling it for a family member.He hadn't got a clue what I was talking about.


Stanner- Is your charger on your panel then as Stuart says?

Lynne


----------



## erneboy

Hard to say from the photo but they look like heavy wires and if so they would have been connected to something using or giving high ampage, a charger, power pack or some such. Possibly something that was fitted as an aftermarket extra, an inverter, battery to battery charger or just a bigger charger than the standard one. 

I think a motorhome technician would have a better idea than a general auto spark. Good luck and keep us posted please, Alan.


----------



## olive

Hi Lynne

The charger is ( on our Rollerteam) on the underseat board and is quite large .... google nordelettronica for photos ... and where to buy in UK ( £99)

Perhaps if you let us have the sellers telephone number we could all call to ask him what happened to the charger!!!!

Stuart


----------



## rraf

olive said:


> Hi Lynne
> 
> The charger is ( on our Rollerteam) on the underseat board and is quite large .... google nordelettronica for photos ... and where to buy in UK ( £99)
> 
> Perhaps if you let us have the sellers telephone number we could all call to ask him what happened to the charger!!!!
> 
> Stuart


Hi Stuart,
I don't think anyone would get much out of him.I knocked him down a hefty sum in the end so he won't be best pleased if I went asking for anything that should have been there.He promised to send on the leg on the fiamma awning plus the wind out handle but still no word on them either.
It's my fault.I should have checked it out more though after having a tourer I didn't know what was supposed to be there or not.

Lynne


----------



## rraf

Just Googled.Never seen one of those but have this in side cupboard by dinette.What is it?
CI manual claims it is a battery charger


----------



## olive

Hi Lynne

If it was me I knock him down even more ... till he couldn't get up!!

Assuming all the wiring is still there it should be possible to replace the charger.

I don't have any pics of the whole board, but I do have a basic wiring diagram showing how the connectors are wired.

If you need them PM me and I will attempt to send it

Stuart


----------



## Stanner

Just edited my reply as I hadn't twigged so much was missing from the board as I haven't looked at it since May.

I'll try and take a picture next time I see that van and post it so you can compare.


----------



## olive

Hi again

Yep .. I reckon thats the charger ... so the plot thickens ... if it works why butcher the wiring???

Best of luck 



Stuart


----------



## rraf

Don't know why the wiring is as it is....maybe a cheap skate attempt at saving on batteries,but ridiculous as you'd have to start the engine up every time you wanted a shower!!! or unless they didn't wash!!!!

Do you know..I'm a great believer in..if it's meant to be then it'll be.We missed a van sale the day before so I took it that we weren't meant to have that one.Perhaps I should change my way of thinking?............have just found the sales receipt.

To:Mrs.Totally gullable woman

Sale of one electrically knackered CI Riviera.

Signed:Mr.I could see her coming a mile off


----------



## ozwhit

hi rraf , my liesure battery is under the drivers seat ,is your fresh watertank to the right of the pump as you look at it ,and a bench seat on the left of the pump , if so ,i have fitted a second liesure battery here , may be nice and near your charger , regards gary


----------



## rraf

ozwhit said:


> hi rraf , my liesure battery is under the drivers seat ,is your fresh watertank to the right of the pump as you look at it ,and a bench seat on the left of the pump , if so ,i have fitted a second liesure battery here , may be nice and near your charger , regards gary


Hi Gary,My leisure battery goes under the passenger seat (well it should do!)FW tank to the left of the pump as you look at it(located behind the driver's seat)There is a dinette there not a bench but still room under right and bench to fit a battery.Is it easy to do?


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

Hello rraf,

Id stick a meter on the charger whilst on EHU to see if that is throwing out a charge voltage (circa 13v+).

If so I would then try a continuity test (with everything switched off) to try and find where it is all breaking down. Im still not convinced there will be much wrong (again, I am hoping this is the case).

Good Luck


----------



## Stanner

rraf said:


> Stanner- Is your charger on your panel then as Stuart says?
> 
> Lynne


Pic of panel as promised had to go over and do some work on the vans before the weekend and managed to get a pic of under the seat - sorry about the angle of the shot it would take too long to get the seat out.


----------



## rraf

Thanks for photo Stanner.At least I know I have everything I should have so far even though they are not all in one place.You are right about it being an awkward area.I'm having to tilt seat right up because fixed dinette behind plus pole support for loft bunk restricts access from the back.I guess it adds to fun!!
Thanks again.Lynne


----------



## 113016

What's happened to the auto electrician? I thought he was returning with some bits? :?:


----------



## rraf

Hi Grath,
I've left the MH with the electrician over night.He was fitting the new relay to day but apparently has now found a 30amp fuse(under the drver seat on panel has blown too.He's changed that and now everything working except the lights (again) but we now have power to the leisure battery which we didn't before but the leisure battery is not charging.He's had the shunt box out today too but without a circuit diagram he's baffled.Do you know if I can download a wiring diagram for this model anywhere or is it a case of taking it to a CI dealer only?We went to our nearest so called CI dealer and some dippy woman hadn't got a clue what I was on about plus she said they don't do servicing so it looks like the nearest is Salop in Shrewsbury.

Lynne


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

rraf said:


> Hi Grath,
> found a 30amp fuse(under the drver seat on panel has blown too.He's changed that and now everything working except the lights (again)
> 
> Lynne


Hi,

That, I would think is the root / cause of the problem - I presume this is the one that is (or should be) inline with the positive connection from the Leisure Battery?

At least your making good progress and may well get away soon.

GOOD LUCK (Again)


----------



## olive

This diagram is for our Rolleream, ( I think!!) but asw you have same charger etc it might be useful.

Hope you get it all working soon


----------



## 122968

any battery which is not flat should be ok check in wardrobe and whare boiler is located all places that seem the last place to fit a .switch


----------



## olive

Ok so the diagram didn't make it ... I'll try again


----------



## rraf

olive said:


> This diagram is for our Rolleream, ( I think!!) but asw you have same charger etc it might be useful.
> 
> Hope you get it all working soon


Diagram?

Circuitry is soooooo confusing...more like a boeing than a MH


----------



## rraf

Thanks very much for that.You don't possibly have one for control panel circuit do you aswell?
They are going to try and fathom out why the lights don't work tomorrow and then hopefully we'll be sorted.I have stipulated though that they have to try all utilities whilst the main engine battery is disconnected otherwise it may still be all running off that.If that's the case.....well...who knows!!!
Everything (apart from lights seems to now work with leisure battery AND main battery connected.Need to test without main battery and EHU then without leisure battery and only EHU.They don't really know why I want them to do this but I know what I need to check...just need them to understand why!!!!! :roll:


----------



## olive

Hello Lynne ... and co


No sorry ... that diagram is all we had re Rollerteam wiring .... if anyone has more diagrams re charger, control panel etc I would be grateful for a copy as well.

The panel is model NE101C but that's all I've got.

Stu


----------



## 113016

rraf said:


> Hi Grath,
> I've left the MH with the electrician over night.He was fitting the new relay to day but apparently has now found a 30amp fuse(under the drver seat on panel has blown too.He's changed that and now everything working except the lights (again) but we now have power to the leisure battery which we didn't before but the leisure battery is not charging.He's had the shunt box out today too but without a circuit diagram he's baffled.Do you know if I can download a wiring diagram for this model anywhere or is it a case of taking it to a CI dealer only?We went to our nearest so called CI dealer and some dippy woman hadn't got a clue what I was on about plus she said they don't do servicing so it looks like the nearest is Salop in Shrewsbury.
> 
> Lynne


Sorry I can't help about a download wiring diagram.
You need a CI expert , I believe that Malcomes Motorhomes in Stoke on Trent have quite a good name, but I have no direct experience with them.
I notice that you are from Anglesey, we were near to Penmon a couple of weeks ago near Beaumaris and we have been there before Wilding of course, what a nice place you live in


----------



## rraf

Hi Stu,
I might phone CI tomorrow and ask if they've got one to share unless anyone on MHF can come up with something.It looks like you'll have the same panel as us.The diagram you posted is exactly the same as ours.Fingers crossed CI will come up with a diagram.Will post here if I get one.

Thanks.

Lynne


----------



## rraf

Grath said:


> rraf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Grath,
> I've left the MH with the electrician over night.He was fitting the new relay to day but apparently has now found a 30amp fuse(under the drver seat on panel has blown too.He's changed that and now everything working except the lights (again) but we now have power to the leisure battery which we didn't before but the leisure battery is not charging.He's had the shunt box out today too but without a circuit diagram he's baffled.Do you know if I can download a wiring diagram for this model anywhere or is it a case of taking it to a CI dealer only?We went to our nearest so called CI dealer and some dippy woman hadn't got a clue what I was on about plus she said they don't do servicing so it looks like the nearest is Salop in Shrewsbury.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't help about a download wiring diagram.
> You need a CI expert , I believe that Malcomes Motorhomes in Stoke on Trent have quite a good name, but I have no direct experience with them.
> I notice that you are from Anglesey, we were near to Penmon a couple of weeks ago near Beaumaris and we have been there before Wilding of course, what a nice place you live in
Click to expand...

Penmon and Beaumaris are the nicer sides of the island Grath.I live in the cheap seats nearer the west side!No trees just sheep and cows and hawk aircraft!


----------



## twinky

Hi rraf

Ive been watching this saga with interest. I hope you get sorted soon.

I'll pm you a pdf of a CI panel instruction booklet I had from somewhere. Its not the same as yours but it may help your autosparky make some sense of the layout of the circuits on you van. I would have thought yours would be very similar to the wiring diagram in the booklet.

I suggest you print it off for him because you can then easily remove the other languages.

Good luck


----------



## rraf

Have sent a reply by PM but just incase I have failed in sending it...thank you very much for sending the PDF.The control panel isn't quite the same but as you say,electrician will no doubt be able to make sense of it all and adjust accordingly.
The story so far is....checks have been done on the battery functions.Leisure battery now in play.Lights are temporarily being wired and fused to a separate switch for us to be able to use the van this weekend if we want as electrician is going away.He will return to the job next week.

Changed components and other work carried out so far for future reference:

-1 x 30w fuse under base connections board (under driver's seat)
-Removal of loose wire that had been "fitted " to short the main relay (under driver's seat)
- 1 x main relay that sits in the centre of the base connections board (under driver's seat)

I'm going to pick the van up in a short while so will wait to see what else doesn't function now that this relay has been changed.
I know the flush does work but no water is getting through.Would this be a blockage? Does the water for the flush come out of main F/W tank please?
And can anyone tell me how to empty the grey water tank as if on a site.I have checked basics on this site but I can't find anything.

Thank you.


----------



## Stanner

rraf said:


> I know the flush does work but no water is getting through.Would this be a blockage? Does the water for the flush come out of main F/W tank please?
> And can anyone tell me how to empty the grey water tank as if on a site.I have checked basics on this site but I can't find anything.
> 
> Thank you.


Is the pump turned on? I think the flush water comes from the main tank in the same way as the taps.

The grey water valve can be either a "T" shaped metal handle underneath the van somewhere or a standard valve turn handle (usually Red) on the end of a pipe, also underneath the van somewhere.


----------



## rraf

Thanks for that.
So how do actually dump the water....I mean positioning van over a drain or is there a pipe that should be attached to link to a draining point.?


----------



## Spwt

Hi, if this attchment works it should be the one you want I think.
It says versions NE100C1 and NE100C2.
The difference seems to be that the first one is without steps control
The cistern ( Serbatoi in Italian ) is filled from the fresh water tank via the pump. When you flush by pushing the little blue button on the toilet, the pump should start up to refill the cistern a little.
Apart from having an Italian dictionary I'm useless at electrics, sorry.

The grey water tank is emptied by the bell pull thing. You just back up expertly ( frantic hand signals, gnashing of teeth ) over the special recessed drain you find on most Cls, aires, stellplatze etc
If there isn't one we use a bucket...

If the attachment hasn't worked, my daughter will be home soon and she'll do it right.


----------



## Spwt

Don't think it worked. I'll try again.


----------



## rraf

["Spwt"]The grey water tank is emptied by the bell pull thing. You just back up expertly ( frantic hand signals, gnashing of teeth ) over the special recessed drain you find on most Cls, aires, stellplatze etc
If there isn't one we use a bucket...color]

Thanks for that.I did wonder if it was a case of ready,aim and fire with offloading the grey water.I'm only used to wastemasters with a tourer you see.(ie.taking it all for a walk,opening drain and pouring it all over your feet!!!!)This new system should cause a few laughs.I've never seen a low drain on any sites,though I guess I wouldn't have looked for one.

Thanks

UPDATE: Just been out and tried it again.I thought it was just a quick press and it'd flush,but you have to hold it for a little while? Air lock in pipe so is flushing now.Lots of gunk coming out though....just needs a flush through I guess.


----------



## Stanner

I just park over a drain - no hoses fitted to mine.


----------



## sonnyboy

If you are using a leisure battery that has some charge in it then that should be ok beware of home made hook up cables if you are a bit short of the reddies tho you can somtimes get a cheap one out of your local paper they are almost always for sale


----------



## twinky

rraf


Dilute some milton fluid in your full water tank and flush half through leaving it in the pipes for a couple of hours. Then flush the rest out.
Refil tank and flush that through after.

Do a search for other tank cleaning ideas from members.

Cheers


----------



## bigbazza

I always use Milton. If it's good enough for babies etc etc


----------



## rraf

*Truma Boiler and Timing Belt*

Can anyone help please? We have a truma water boiler that won't start.The heater and oven both working fine on the gas.The controls on the side of wardrobe shows one switch - click up for 50 degrees,down for 70 degrees,left central - Off. One light at the top of this control unit which only shows red bulb ( if ignition fails).
Switched to 50 degrees,we get the "clunck" couple of clicks then the red light comes on.Water is running freely through "hot" taps in all outlets so tank is full.As manual instructs,left for 5 minutes and tried again but still the red light.
This happens on both battery and EHU.
Can anyone give advice please.

Also,regarding a service....We have been told that our timing belt needs to be changed.The mileage hasn't hit 23k yet but garage says it matters on age of vehicle as well as the mileage.Is this correct?
Thank you.


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Truma Boiler and Timing Belt*



rraf said:


> Also,regarding a service....We have been told that our timing belt needs to be changed.The mileage hasn't hit 23k yet but garage says it matters on age of vehicle as well as the mileage.Is this correct?
> Thank you.


Yes - most definitely - 5 maybe 6 years at the most.


----------



## Dougle

Hi, 
Boilers will not operate if the external flue cover has not been removed [something I forgot about after not using ours for a few months]  Always place the cover inside or use some aid to remember to replace it after use so as not drive off without it.

Regards
Dave


----------



## rraf

Thank you so much Dave...you're a star!It worked! Boiler working!Yippee!Thank you!


----------



## BJT

How are you getting on with the electrics? There are lots of us following this thread with great interest, it is far better than Corrie and all the other soaps ( big yuck)!!


----------



## rraf

The van hasn't been looked at this week but we do have a temporary fix for the lights though it does work on an odd circuit system...we have to have the main lights on for the expelair to work.It and the accent lights won't work without the main light switch on!!!
We still haven't got the outside light working but that is coming from the main control panel over the door,which at the moment,we have bypassed(to make the lights temporarily work)
To add to the electric saga...rear O/S driving light wasn't working,as weren't the side amber flashers along the O/S of the van to the front.Also the N/S front side lamp was out.Changed the blown fuse for the rear lamp and the side lights have nw come on plus the front side light.Such a weird way of wiring this van...it reminds me of a Ford Escort I had years ago...due to a bad earth,when I pressed the brakes the front N/S indicator would light up!!!

BUT....everything else is working inside....got brake problem...possibly worn pads so going in for a check on Monday.

Took the van out for a drive/picnic the other day and got hit by an Italian driver in a VW camper who obviously thought the single track roads around Snowdonia were a race track.His mirror hit mine but his snapped inwards,mine stayed put.Luckily,I was only doing 20mph....but he was not!

*Tune in next time for more electrifying adventures with the Famous Five in a Bodged Up Van!!!!*


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## jenniedream

I have read all this and felt totally horrified and what can beset us ladies!! Having just bought a Hymer 564 with OH's money and OH is abroad - I am thinking "Oh my - I don't understand any of this and I don't speak German!!" I have to do everything wrong at least six times before learning the hard way.
Poor you - and how wonderful everyone has been on this site - at least that ten pounds was good value.
I am making copious notes about zig zags and dampers and red keys for whatever.
If any of you out there have to leave a van at Salop caravans and give me notice I will always collect you and take you to the train station in Shrewsbury.
Please let us know how you get on.
And when every thing is fine and you know and trust your little home - think of the expertise you now have.


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## rraf

*Confused...very confused!*

For those of you following this electrical saga,here's an update....

Well,we have arrived home a day early from our trip.We pottered off to a CL 4 miles north of York last Monday.Beautiful weather,near enough empty site so we chose an end pitch with views over corn fields....great.Got a good T.V. reception but after a few hours all our lights went off.Luckily I had taken a little table lamp,so we weren't completely in the dark.After a few hours,the lights came back on.Now on our test run the previous Friday,we had had the same problem.When I touched the main ceiling lights,the glass was too hot to touch.We removed the bulbs from these two lights as we thought the lights were causing the system to have a safety cut off.Everything seemed fine then...just using the accent lights.
Anyway,Tuesday morning..got up and went out for an hour or two to look round the area.Came back,caught bus into York.Visited Yorvik centre (pre-booked tickets online so went straight in without waiting in long line!!!Well worth the extra £1.00 booking fee)
Next morning,packed up to leave for Shropshire...turned engine...flat battery.Luckily we had a battery charger onboard...only took five minutes to charge so obviously there was still reasonable charge left but not enought to turn the engine.
Set off from very wet York to beautiful sunny Shropshire.Called in at Salop Leisure and bought loads of little bits for repairs....great shop.Arrived at site.Pitched up...everything fine.
Now remember,we are running on accent lights only.We went to bed and due to flat battery problem in York,we switched everything off that we thought could possibly drain the battery.(Note that the leisure battery has constantly shown green throughout the trip)
The only thing that was in use throughout the night was the water pump,though once water was used,we turned the pump off.
However,we tried to set off again yesterday morning and again,the battery needed a boost of five minutes to turn the engine.(Leisure battery is still on green!)
O.K. so perhaps the main battery is duff?
Another quandry....why is it that every time I turn the engine on the clock resets itself to 0.00?
Then,to add to the confusion....after this battery boost to start the engine,up on the dash board comes a picture of a car with a padlock on it(steady amber).According to the handbook,this means that the key code had not been recognised and that the engine will be disabled...but the engine is running now!!!!Maybe a query for all of you with red key problems?
By this time,I had lost the plot and decided to call it quits and go home a day early,but decided to call in again a Salop to pick up other bits.Turned the engine off in car park for five minutes.Started up again,no problem and hey presto,the little amber warning light went out!!!

I am now getting to the point of packing the whole MH bit in....there's only so much a person can take.

P.S. We lost a wheel nut on our n/s rear wheel so called in at Abergele's Threeways (enroute to York) to see if they had one to buy.Before we could do anything,they wanted our vehicle registration number.Why?As my OH couldn't remember it,they said they couldn't get us one until Wednesday.Was this a case of "You didn't buy your MH from us so we ain't helping you in a hurry!?(Had this done before by another garage when I had a burst tyre)
So we wanted to check that the other nuts were on tight....OH went to asked to borrow a brace (?) ,but no,they couldn't lend us one nor would they check it for us!

Thanks Threeways for your help!


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## erneboy

rraf, you have been very unlucky and perhaps not sufficiently cautious when buying but if you like the idea and have enjoyed the experience, leave aside the problems, do not give up yet. 

It sounds as though it may not be worth persisting with the van you currently have but you could trade it in for another if you want to continue. That may sound a bit dishonest but if, when changing, the dealer asks questions answer them truthfully. If the deal does not suit just try elsewhere. You will have gathered from reading posts on here that dealers often mislead purchasers or are not sufficiently familiar with individual vans to give comprehensive answers to questions. So as long as I answer any questions honestly, I would not worry about omitting to tell a dealer about any defects they would regard as minor if the boot was on the other foot. If you see what I mean. 

Four times I have changed my vans, the dealers have only given my trade in a cursory glance without even going inside. Last time the dealer valued my van through his office window. They only want to make a sale and get your money by and large. I am sure there are some who actually care but I have yet to meet one, Alan.


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## littlenell

Gosh, what a journey through space and time you have had. Sounds like a real epic.

I bought our van in a moment of madness from ebay, after pondering it for less than 48hrs and without even seeing it. I thought my husband would have a complete fit! As it was a Jap import all the info was unreadable and even the pictures did not help BUT what made the difference for us, was taking it along to a local meet of MHF peeps, who checked stuff and tested bits, and generally got us pretty organised in what to do/not to do. 

It has been a slow process getting things as they should be, and there is still an ever added to list of things that need changing. Our wiring was an interesting beast that took much headscratching to sort out and sadly, a fair bit of dosh as the wiring was 110v, the fridge element had blown, and the sockets were 110v two pin but apparently let 240v through on hook up! EHU was not charging the battery, no RCD protection etc etc. Much of the kit on our van is American, like in the bigger RV's, so it makes for fun times trying to get parts and servicing etc. I know it will end up as a labour of love keeping it in working order. Fortunately the toyota engine starts first time, and never causes us a problem, so phew for that!

I must give great thanks to sallytrafic -Frank and Doreen...who have been brilliant supporting us newbies to mh-ing. Since meeting them at the initial gathering which was our first night away in the van, Frank has tweaked and rewired, and generally been a good egg with our rather dodgy electrics, and Doreen has put up with us and our pooches whilst providing brews and yummy cake. I thank the day we found this site!

We love our van, and would not want to change it...although it is a squeeze with two peeps and two large dogs we are addicted! 

Hope your van gets sorted soon...and stay sane with it all  one day you will sit down, with a long cold drink and all this will be but a distant memory...


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## rraf

erneboy said:


> rraf, you have been very unlucky and perhaps not sufficiently cautious when buying but if you like the idea and have enjoyed the experience, leave aside the problems, do not give up yet.
> 
> It sounds as though it may not be worth persisting with the van you currently have but you could trade it in for another if you want to continue. That may sound a bit dishonest but if, when changing, the dealer asks questions answer them truthfully. If the deal does not suit just try elsewhere. You will have gathered from reading posts on here that dealers often mislead purchasers or are not sufficiently familiar with individual vans to give comprehensive answers to questions. So as long as I answer any questions honestly, I would not worry about omitting to tell a dealer about any defects they would regard as minor if the boot was on the other foot. If you see what I mean.
> 
> Four times I have changed my vans, the dealers have only given my trade in a cursory glance without even going inside. Last time the dealer valued my van through his office window. They only want to make a sale and get your money by and large. I am sure there are some who actually care but I have yet to meet one, Alan.


Hi Alan,
I did wonder whether to change the vehicle,but I'm not sure if guilt would get to me before I signed it away.
I sold our tourer a week before I bought this and was really honest about the two things I couldn't fix on it and fixed anything I could before I sold it.
I cannot believe that someone would sell something in this condition.When I went to view it,I checked it over thoroughly (or as much as I could) and most things seemed to be working then.
I don't know how much I'd get for it either.I set a budget for buying this so that I didn't have any credit on it or anything like that,but if I sold it to buy another,the prices are so high.Is there a glasses type guide for MH?


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## rraf

littlenell said:


> Gosh, what a journey through space and time you have had. Sounds like a real epic.
> 
> I bought our van in a moment of madness from ebay, after pondering it for less than 48hrs and without even seeing it. I thought my husband would have a complete fit! As it was a Jap import all the info was unreadable and even the pictures did not help BUT what made the difference for us, was taking it along to a local meet of MHF peeps, who checked stuff and tested bits, and generally got us pretty organised in what to do/not to do.
> 
> It has been a slow process getting things as they should be, and there is still an ever added to list of things that need changing. Our wiring was an interesting beast that took much headscratching to sort out and sadly, a fair bit of dosh as the wiring was 110v, the fridge element had blown, and the sockets were 110v two pin but apparently let 240v through on hook up! EHU was not charging the battery, no RCD protection etc etc. Much of the kit on our van is American, like in the bigger RV's, so it makes for fun times trying to get parts and servicing etc. I know it will end up as a labour of love keeping it in working order. Fortunately the toyota engine starts first time, and never causes us a problem, so phew for that!
> 
> I must give great thanks to sallytrafic -Frank and Doreen...who have been brilliant supporting us newbies to mh-ing. Since meeting them at the initial gathering which was our first night away in the van, Frank has tweaked and rewired, and generally been a good egg with our rather dodgy electrics, and Doreen has put up with us and our pooches whilst providing brews and yummy cake. I thank the day we found this site!
> 
> We love our van, and would not want to change it...although it is a squeeze with two peeps and two large dogs we are addicted!
> 
> Hope your van gets sorted soon...and stay sane with it all  one day you will sit down, with a long cold drink and all this will be but a distant memory...


Hi Littlenell,
Thank you for your words of support.I am torn between taking it to a service centre and telling them to sort the wiring out or just selling up and buying another.On the whole,the van is O.K...I didn't expect the extremes of a top of the range MH for our budget,but after traipsing round so many places,this,for it's price was a good buy....apart from the electrics.
Little niggly things can and have been replaced by us-like the blind winding mechanisms,the fridge catch and lockers not click locking.This van has changed ownership due to either the shock of fuel consumption or a change of circumstances and in the meantime has been left unloved.
However,at some point,someone in their "wisdom" has done their own rewiring job and it has completely bodged the system up.Unlike you with an import,Fiat parts are available quite easily here (even in North Wales if you're prepared to wait perhaps!!!)You have been very lucky to have met someone who can help you with your MH.I don't know anyone around here with a MH who has any knowledge of these things.(Basically,if they have a problem,they pay a garage to fix it!)
As mentioned in my reply to Alan,I budgeted for a MH so that we owned it out right.If I did sell it,from what I have seen,the dealers are charging a huge price for something on the same scale.


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## GerryD

Rraf,
If the van suits you and it sounds as though you don't really want to part from it, why not get a mobile caravan mechanic to have a look at it and give you a quote for fixing the electrics. Bound to be cheaper than using a dealer and I have always found that the bona fide mobile guys are very trustworthy and take a pride in thier work.
These people have mobile engineers around the country:
http://www.mobilecaravanengineers.co.uk/
Gerry


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## rraf

Hi Gerry,
I've just had a browse through some vehicles that are exactly the same spec and year as ours and I definately think even if I have to spend £1000.00 getting all this fixed,it was still a bargain buy,so I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get someone to sort it ALL in one go.I'm guessing that they won't have to do a total rewire.The thought of them ripping everything out fills me with dread.

Thank you for the link.


UPDATE:August 14th: Booked van into Salop Leisure for them to fix the electrics.
Changed the main battery as one cell was dead.


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## erneboy

rraf, you sounded a little despondent earlier, if you like mhing then do not give up. 

It sounds a though you have what is basically a nice van with a few rather tricky problems which need solving. You got it at a good price so when you add the cost of repairing it you will still have a bargain. 

Dealers do have a Glasses type price guide. 

Hang on in there, it will be worth it, Alan.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

We have been away for the best part of the last 2 months, how did you get on with the faults? Did you get it all sorted out?

Regards


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## rraf

Hi Ian and Suzy,
I've had it booked in for over a month now...long waiting list at Salop Leisure.I'm driving down tomorrow as it is booked in for 7.30am Thursday.I'm hoping they'll be able to fix it and quickly.(Labour charges nearly £70 per hour!!!)
We've had it temporaily wired up so we could use the MH but a few odd moments when away in it over the summer,like in York...plunged into darkness...then hours later when we were asleep...all the lights came back on but then the two overhead lamps were so hot you couldn't touch them.Removed the bulbs from there now.Right fiasco but fingers crossed that Salop will sort it out.
Thanks.

Lynne


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## Ian_n_Suzy

rraf said:


> Hi Ian and Suzy,
> I've had it booked in for over a month now...long waiting list at Salop Leisure.I'm driving down tomorrow as it is booked in for 7.30am Thursday.I'm hoping they'll be able to fix it and quickly.(Labour charges nearly £70 per hour!!!)
> We've had it temporaily wired up so we could use the MH but a few odd moments when away in it over the summer,like in York...plunged into darkness...then hours later when we were asleep...all the lights came back on but then the two overhead lamps were so hot you couldn't touch them.Removed the bulbs from there now.Right fiasco but fingers crossed that Salop will sort it out.
> Thanks.
> 
> Lynne


Here's hoping it's all sorted out for you. Please keep us posted.


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## rraf

Will do!Thanks.


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## BJT

Keep going, and keep us posted, please Many members are keen to see you get through to the end of your troubles and enjoy your MH as you should.
You ought to give the van a name associated with dodgy electrics! I bet some of the forum members can come up with a few for you to think about. 
Come on how about it?


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## rraf

A name?That would be interesting."IT" hasn't got a name or a gender for that matter.I started calling it the shed,but I think it unfair to call it that really.I am worried I'm going to drive in on Thursday and after the first hour's consultation period,they say " Mmmmm.Nope,I'm afraid we can't work it out...sorry and bye bye!"
I keep telling myself and OH that it can't be much because some of the control panel works and we have got all the electrics working even though we have had to put in a household light junction and switch.I'd love you to see it....it's stuck up with sellotape!Still,it got us through the Summer holidays.
I will post the results when I get back online.  

As I've said before,thank you to those of you that have "held my hand" through all of this.Without all your combined knowledge,we wouldn't have a MH by now!


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## camallison

Suggested name = electrickery?


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## rraf

*UPDATE: SEPTEMBER*

UPDATE:September
I took the MH to Salop Leisure yesterday to hopefully have the electrics sorted once and for all.Unfortunately,two and half hours worth of labour later,the verdict was that they can confirm that the leisure battery is being charged. :!: but they cannot get anything else to work.
This was major diappointment for us.OH looked like he desperately needed a smoke and even though he has given up,I nearly told him to go and get a packet!!
The engineer went on to say that he had then phoned CI in Italy and asked them what they thought was wrong with it.They said they are 90% sure it is the circuit board _underneath the inside _the shunt box.Delivery time-maybe 8 weeks!Not good...but there is an importer in _THIS_ country who may have one as they import from CI...but they don't open until 2pm!At 2.10pm,I get a phone call from Salop to say that this U.K. company _COULD _have the part but they don't have it on their computer system and there will be a 2-3 day wait to see if they can find it(if they've got one)..if not,they can order one from CI to which the engineer from Salop said,if that's the case,he could order one himself(unless this comany in the U.K. could get this panel cheaper)So the upshot is,I've got to wait and wait and wait.The engineer from Salop said though,that once he has got the part,I can drive down in the MH and he'll fit it while I wait rather than bring the car down aswell.
As this part is going to cost in the region of £450.00 plus labour,I did check that IF the part didn't rectify the situation (as CI are only 90% sure it's this that needs replacing) that I wouldn't have to pay.The answer was a reassuring No,I wouldn't have to pay if the part didn't rectify the problem.
Of course,we are disappointed that we couldn't get it fixed but thank heavens,the engineer at Salop didn't remove any of our temporary wiring so we can still continue to use the MH in the meantime.

I would also like to add that we did enjoy pottering around Salop Leisure.They didn't have a vast array of Mhs to browse(more caravans really).They were all 2 or 4 berth but we loved looking in the statics for sale....how big are they?!!!! The staff were friendly and everything was dealt with efficiently and professionally however,if you choose to partake in a little light refreshment from their café,their cake range,in our opinion was terrible.I don't know how long it had been sat there but it was dry as a bone.It wasn't reasonable either.The portions were erm,rather thin for the money,plus the staff member serving us had long hair and it wasn't tied back which really bothers me!

I'll keep you updated with any developments as they come.Maybe,we'll have a final resolution by December...a fully functioning van...a nice gift for our MH for Christmas!


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## twinky

Please keep us informed as I am following this saga, as are probably others, hoping you get to a successful conclusion. 

I have to say I admire your composure during all the setbacks, and particulaly enjoyed the review of the cake in the cafe after even more bad news. :lol: 

Hang on in there - it'll come good in the end.


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## jenniedream

Hello there you poor thing...don't forget my offer always stands if you drive MH to Salop and you want picking up and taking to Shrewsbury station I can do that.
I am about to take our MH to Taunton to Eddie (he was fantastic on the phone) we have a Strikeback fitted but only one alarm fob and the bloke who fitted it originally was not very good and lost the franchise.
It's very frustrating isn't it when something does not work or you can't understand it.
You are so patient though you will suceed in the end. Think how you will be able to look back and laugh at it all!! Remember nothing is worth having if it comes too easy!! (sorry!!)


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## marnaz

rraf said:


> Thank you all for your replies.We bought the van privately from someone who was selling it for a family member.I don't think he has used the van himself so probably pointless asking him.Can't understand why there were lights on the panel when we viewed the van originally and now nothing at all except the water pump switch.I rang and asked if the leisure battery was fitted when we first viewed.They said no, so cannot understand why the lights on the panel were working then when manual says that all systems in living area run off leisure battery.


I think the reason you saw pannel lights and a battery indicatoion was the van was on hook up and the system was most likly trying to charge a battery that was not there as open circuit and would most likly indicate a charged battery although the was nothing fitted. These units also suply the 12v to the living areas


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## marnaz

Any 12volt battery will work, However a leisure battery is designed to have a slower drop off curve meaning you can draw current from it longer before you lose voltage as it approaches the discharged state.

Any battery manufactured as a 'leisure' battery will be ok for what you need most seem to be marked around 150 A/H meaning you can draw a max of 150 amps load for one hour, or a 1 amp load for 150 hours.

The higher the XXX A/Hrs is indicated on the case the 'greater' capacity the battery will have.
Go for the highest capacity (or even two bats) in parallel if needed if you have a high draw on the batteries IE. an inverter for 240v or 12v TV etc.
BE CAREFUL if you want to use two batteries to unsure you don't connect them in series and introduce 24 volts to your system in error.
One battery in almost all cases will suffice.
When on hook up your electronic distribution and control unit should provide a charge to your leisure battery.

Hope this info helps you

Marnaz


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## marnaz

Hi

No I haven't lost the plot but like a dummy replied to this but pages back so all the last is out of context....sorry....I blame it on a senior moment...
Marnaz


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## rraf

Thanks Jenniedream for lift offer but once I've dropped the children off at school,I'll do the trip down there and back in one day.They have said they can fit the part while I wait (but I'm taking my own cake next time! :lol: )
How did you get on with your trip to pick hubby up?Did he like your choice in MH?

I phoned Salop today.They couldn't get the part needed from the company in the U.K. so it's on order from CI direct.Can take up to 8 weeks.They hadn't ordered it because the wanted to check if the price was ok with me first although I had confirmed it when I was there last week.It is pricey for what it is,but it needs doing and then hopefully it will all be tickety-boo! :lol: We'll still carry on using it til then even though it might be by candlelight! :lol: 

Marnaz: Thank you for your help and don't worry about having senior moments.We all have them! :lol: .The panel lights were on when we viewed the Mh because someone had left the water pump on.That runs off the main engine battery as does the step light .The MH was not on EHU when we viewed it as there was no lead.We have fitted a new leisure battery and the engineer says that that is charging.The fault is with the control panel down to the shunt box(fuse box) behind my driver's seat.It's causing confusion left right and centre,but we'll get there!

All will be sorted...one day....hopefully.I'm looking forward to going away in the autumn/winter.We always stuck to the warmer months with the caravan cos she was big and I used to find she stuck fast in the ground sometimes.MH a lot easier to handle with low gears.

Lynne


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## talogon

Hi I have had a real bad day today, but having read this thread I have given myself a good shake and bucked up. we are also new to all this but if we had all the problems you have had I am sure we would not have handled it nearly so well. I hope it all works out as you really sound like you deserve it. Best of luck,from Brian and Alison.


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## jenniedream

Okay Lynne - I'm here if you need me ever.
Hubby coming back here in October, we have a daughter who has been diagnosed with cancer and he wants to be around whilst she is treated. Plan is now we take MH & stay around London & visit her from there in between. MH will go over to P/gal in early spring if life is good to us with OH!!
All the best


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## rraf

Hi Jenniedream
You have a lot to cope with at the moment.I sincerely hope the treatment goes well for your daughter.Keep in touch.
Lynne x


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## neilbes

have you thought of getting one of these to help keep using your van
until your new part arrives?here


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## rraf

*Thank you Neilbes*

Hi Nielbes,
Thank you for thinking of that.I used to have one but gave it away with our caravan when I sold it! :roll: Never mind.
At the moment,we have got some electrics when on hook up and sometimes on battery.A friend of my Dad who is a house spark fitted a normal house switch in the van straight from the shunt box.It is sellotaped to the cuboard door....really gash but it's doing the job and it's safe.It's acting as the master switch.Now and again,it goes off and we are plunged into darkness,but eventually it comes back on.It makes for an eventful evening I can tell you.I'll be glad when it's all done though....just to stop OH shouting.He comes across to others as the quiet calm one but indeed is not! :lol: Thankfully it is me that deals with the MH.He just sits there and reads the map! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Thank you again though Neilbes.Good suggestion...though I paid £99. for mine..the one from your link is really good value isn't it?

Lynne


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## rraf

Update October 8th
I received a letter from Salop last week to say that the circuit panel was in stock.Yesterday,I drove down to have a "while you wait "fitting.Apparently only a half hour wait....
I browsed through the shop twice,did the rounds of all the new stock of MH,browsed the shop again and then parked myself on a squishy leather sofa and nearly fell asleep.Eventually,I commented at the service desk that I was led to believe it would only be half and hour and I have been wating for over two hours.Out comes the engineer who says......
The results are in...either the panel CI sent was U/S or the panel wasn't the problem that needed to be fixed.
What now? I have to wait again for CI to send another two panels so they can be twin matched together AND a new control panel(the one over the door) incase that is the problem.
The engineer was very apologetic but I don't blame him.CI are at fault as they will not release a wiring diagram for Salop to use!
I shall wait with everything crossed that it gets sorted next time.
I had the most wonderful drive down though.I drove down the A487 (?)which takes you past a view over the valley to Chirk and the Viaduct beyond and boy,with the autumn colours and the river below,it was worth the trip even if just to look at that.
See you all next time!


Lynne


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## GerryD

Lynne,
I haven't looked through the full thread and for some reason I haven't picked up on it before.
I have always found with CI, and we are on our second, the best course of action is to not rely on the dealer and go to CI directly.
I don't know if you have gone down this route, but if you haven't then you should speak to Andrew Davies on 01472 571000. He is very helpful. When we had a problem with electrics on the current van his colleague was able to get PDF files from Italy of the circuit diagrams for both the switch panel and the fuse box.
Failing that have you tried to speak to any of the main CI dealers like Geoff Cox in Derby. They live and breath CI and may be able to help.
Sorry if I'm going over old ground, but you sound as if you are starting to pull your hair out.
Gerry


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## carolgavin

I concur with Gerry we did exactly what he is suggesting and had fantastic service from both. Geoff Cox were absolutely fantastic cannot praise them enough!


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