# Peugeot 2.0L Petrol Talbot Exp - Engine misses on 1/2 tank



## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

Can anyone out there shed any light on our problem :?: 
Our Autohomes Highwayman on Peugeot 2.0L Petrol Talbot Express starts missing when the fuel gets down to about half a tank :x . This only happens at reasonable speeds and uphill, ie motorways and A roads. Top up with fuel and the problem goes away.
I use the vehicle daily and around town the problem does not occur and the tank goes down to empty without a problem. We have only had the van since just before Christmas and the previous owners did not drive it regularly, I have drained the fuel in the tank, changed the in line filter and started again with a clean batch of fresh fuel - no change :evil: 
The timing advance vacuum pipes (name??) seem in good condition;
The fuel pump appears to be working well and discussions with Peugeot suggest that the fuel pumps are not an item regularly replaced.
The previous owner tells me that he had some 'spheres' added to the tank for running on unleaded, he also had the same problem but just ignored it by filling up every time he got down to the danger level :!: 
Does anyone out there have any experience of this problem :?:


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## 90374 (May 1, 2005)

Does your tank hiss when you release the filler cap?

I had a similar problem with our 2lt petrol Fiat, until we found out that the wrong petrol cap was fitted causing a vacuum, thus not allowing full flow of fuel under full load.

Or are the 'spheres' !!!! blocking the outlet?

Pete


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*Peugeot 2l petrol*

I would agree with Pete,there could be a partial vacuum forming in the petrol tank. I remember a Skoda which had a kink in the pressure relief pipe causing a similar problem. I had a Fiat car which would not start on a hill or when the tank was low,the problem was the fuel pump. Hope that you manage to sort your problem out.
Rowley


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

No, no vacuum forming in tank and the fuel lines including the return seem in good condition, any other ideas anyone :?:


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## 88967 (May 11, 2005)

*Vapour Lock.*

Hi,

Still has all the markings of a vapour lock from the pertol tank cap.

I would fill up next time and try a temporary filler cap with a hole in it.

When it stalls /stops next time release the petrol filler cap and allow air in to the tank. Then attempt to start the engine. It may prove that I am wrong.

Have fun. keep trying 
Graham & Judith


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

The fuel cap is a poor fitting add on, pulling a vacuum is not the problem. My own thoughts before talking to others were that the fuel pump was not man enough ie worn out. Whilst the level in the fuel tank is high there is enough force from gravity to ensure sufficient fuel to the engine, as the level in the tank drops the supply of fuel becomes more and more reliant upon the pump until at about 1/2 a tank it is insufficient and the engine starts to miss at high speed and uphill.

For this to be correct you would expect the problem to get worse as the level drops but for urban driving I can get the tank down to empty without a problem.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and buy a new fuel pump if I can identify which one I need, now there is another problem that has stopped me spending the 30 quid and just changing it anyway.

When I first had the problem I removed the fuel pump and went to the main dealers to get a replacement and even with the old one in our hands and the chassis number we could not work out which one would be the correct replacement from the pictures on the screen, of course they did not have one in stock and it would need to be a special order and of course you have to pay for it etc. etc.

Any other ideas :?: 

HighwayManWomanTwins


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## 90374 (May 1, 2005)

Sounds like you have found the fault, we have some good motor factors in our area, have you tried local to yourselves?

Pete


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## 91186 (May 1, 2005)

Before going to the expense of a new pump try your local breakers yard for a electric pump wire it through a ignition only live or direct from the battery via a switch temparary .Hope ths helps ps if your anywhere near Filey ive one you can borrow to test it :lol:


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## 90711 (May 1, 2005)

Out of interest have you cleared your problem?
I have just been on a long trip in my talbot Express and had very similar problems but hadn't related it to amount of fuel in tank but certainly had
intermittent misfiring and loss of power on hills etc. I tried adding redex to fuel etc. but was thinkiing maybe plugs coil or carb problem?


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

The problem had not occurred for a number of weeks and we were even beginning to think it had miraculously gone away but..... .....

On the way to North Cornwall last weekend, climbing the hill after the Saltash Tunnel if you know it the missing returned big style, called in the services and filled up, problem went away. Returning home on the Sunday and with 3/4 of a tank the missing started again, the first time with more than half a tank.

As I have said previously the problem never seems to occur during urban driving but it did last week, big style until I put some more fuel in, didn't fill it right up as I have it booked in for a Service/Engine Tune this week and I am hoping that the fuel level will have dropped sufficiently for the missing to be occurring when I take it in.

This should now allow us to tick off some of the obvious solutions and who knows maybe even cure it!

If you (Rubio 2003 or any one else!) finds a cure please be sure to post it back on here please.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

we had a similar problem with the same van only ours was brand new and was a harmony.
what started out a ahissing from the petrol cap so we took it in and it came back fixed or so we thought as the hissing had stopped.
we were on our way to dover from birmingham we got to oxford when going up a slight hill the engine lost power so we pulled over into a layby and the engine ticked over quite nicley and you could rev it freely so i decided it was probaly a bit of muck in the fuel and pulled back into the heavy trafic only for it to die on me instantly,the aa spent 5 hours with us and it turned out that when they fixed the hissing tank they replaced the fuel pipes the wrong way round on the tank,ie the one at the top onto the bottom but they collapse at different pressures so what was happening was the pipe shut the fuel off,so it could be that the rubber pipes from the tank need replaceing but they do shut off at different pressures .
pete


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

CamperPete

Many thanks for your response, can you clarify a couple of details for me please?

Was the hissing from the petrol cap a problem with it not venting rapidly enough? Am I correct in assuming that this was not anything to do with the problem in the end?

I assume the 2 pipes you are talking about are the suction from the tank to the inlet side of the fuel pump and the overflow return to the tank from a tee pice just on the discharge side of the fuel pump. Am I correct so far?

How do I identify the difference between the 2 pipes? Am I correct to assume that the one on the suction side of the pump is the stiffer one?


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## 90711 (May 1, 2005)

The biggest problem for me is identifying the exact circumstance of occurrence as sometimes it seems fine!
Yesterday I was returning from Lancashire to Aberdeen and it seemed really bad at first i was struggling to get it above 45 MPH on the level.
A couple of hours later it was doing 80MPH on level and 60 uphill.
I also noticed a slight hunting at tickover recently but its maybe another red herring. I've never had it actually cut out on me , but it's not very reassuring on long runs i'm sure you'll agree. The main trouble is there is a variety of things that can cause similar symptoms. Dirt, water in fuel, Plug leads, Plug, coil, vacumn advance, vacumn leak etc.


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

I must admit mine has never actually cut out, my remedy when it starts missing is to back off on the throttle and continue up the hill trying to ensure that I am neither over revving the engine or driving in too high a gear and overloading the engine.


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

*Ongoing Saga!*

Well, I've had the van serviced and some things have greatly improved  , new plugs and a tune up have increased the power and removed some of the 'rough' running.

The fuel pipes are correctly fitted and in reasonable condition so that is not the problem.

When I first got the van (8 months or so ago) I had a look around it and noticed a cartridge type fuel filter fitted between the tank and the pump, it didn't look to clever, 'condition wise' and the fuel had a distinct reddy/brown colour to it. Assuming this to indicate water in the tank about 3 months ago I made the effort to drain the tank of all the fuel I could without actually removing the tank, I replaced the filter and topped up with clean fuel. Following this was the period when the running of the van greatly improved (see previous post).

Well the report from yesterdays service indicated that when they checked the fuel lines for correct connection and good condition they noticed that the new fuel filter had once again returned to its reddy/brown colour, they conclude that I once more have water in the fuel.

Now this could simply be the residue of what I failed to drain out previously or it could indeed be a slow influx of water still getting into the tank.

There is no indication of a fuel leak anywhere, even after being parked up for a length of time. Apparently the fuel gauge sender unit is located on the top of the tank in a slight depression that can fill with a puddle of water (road spray, rain :?: ), it is possible that this water is slowly seeping into the tank.

The solution is to remove the tank from the vehicle and strip it down. Once all the parts have been cleaned and thoroughly dried it can all be reassembled with new gaskets before refitting it to the vehicle.

This would seem to be a garage type job just for the simple reason of trying to safely lift a 3.5 tonne vehicle high enough to remove the tank entirely.

We are still able to use the van as long as we don't let the fuel level drop too low and we are off for a fortnight tomorrow, when we get back the fuel tank cleaning and repairing will be top of the list :!:

The saga continues...............I will keep you posted........ any comments on this new diagnosis :?:


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

Just athought ---- Do you mainly get your fuel from the same place?
Couple of years ago I had an occassional problem, and was discussing with a mini bus operator, he advised a change of filling station, ----- bingo !!!!


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

Not really, I just fill up where and when necessary, the local fuel station that I do use more often than any other is a large quality station that we have used for many years and with many vehicles without problem.


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## VanManWomanTwins (May 12, 2005)

*Next Installment*

We have been on our hols, only about an hour and a half each way and in both directions the engine started to play up and miss on the uphill bits after about an hour of the journey, on the return leg it was even beginning to play up a bit on the flat bits :!: So there may also be a new symptom here not related to the level of fuel in the tank, could it be an electrical problem linked to the length of running time or temperature reached :?:

The short journeys to and from work yesterday and today have not been any kind of problem 

We are now planning to go ahead with the fuel tank clean and after that change the HT leads and the distributor cap. After that maybe the distributor, the carb, the fuel pump who knows 

Anyone else out there who recognises our tale of woe  and has solved it please post here :!:


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## 92349 (May 1, 2005)

My previous van was an elderly express - it had a variety of strange quirks over the years, but one of the most annoying was strange electrical goings on - it would cough and misfire, sometimes die completely then recover with a spectacular backfire as the fuel hit the exhaust - I eventually found a hot fuse in the box - the ignition circuit fuse would S-L-O-W-L-Y deform until it made an imperfect contact, at which point bumps from the road would jiggle it out of position - it looked fine but felt v. hot, and once removed you could see the plastic had deformed. Never got to the bottom of the cause, but took to carrying a couple of spares.
Might be worth having a look next time it plays up.


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## 90711 (May 1, 2005)

I haven't had a chance to fully test yet but I changed my in line fuel filter to eliminate that! In so doing I found that on the old one the hoseclip had been tightened up excessively causing the plastic piping to be squeezed almost shut. I think this could be a reasonable cause of my intermittent fuel problems. However I can't be sure yet.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Did you guys get this problem sorted?

I have had a similar problem with my old ducato, cutting out and losing power, then running fine again.

I read a recent article in MMM about carbs getting too cold and freezing resulting in no power. This made sense in my situation as when I thought about it, it happened when pullin gout to overtake a truck, more cold air hitting ht eengine direct. then cutting out.

Any thoughts?


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## RobMD (May 9, 2005)

Two more things to try!

1) Ensure that the pipe from the vacuum advance to manifold is O.K.

2) Check there is no sign of an air leakage at the inlet manifold (caused by a) distorted Manifold b) faulty gasket c) loose fastenings).

Both these would affect the fuel/air ratio, and 1) would also affect the timing.


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## phil_h (May 22, 2005)

The running problems you describe on the motorhomefacts site definitely point towards fuel starvation. But it's intermittant !"£$%^&* 
However, if its getting worse then it _should_ be easier to track down 
The first easy-ish thing I would do is to replace all the fuel pipes. If you have something that is partially blocking them (some corrosion in a metal to rubber junction ?) then you will get the kind of thing you are decribing. 
AND you described getting brownish gloop from the filter ! Unfortunately it will look much worse than it really is, but it will also block a small filter very quickly, so the second thing I would do is to fit a MUCH bigger filter, in a position so that the fuel is going upwards through it, and slowly cos its big ... ! 
It should be easier than removing the tank anyway !


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

My 1994 Talbot (Autosleeper Rambler had a much bigger fuel filter fitted when i bought it and so far i have had no problems


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*Re: Peugeot 2.0L Petrol Talbot Exp - Engine misses on 1/2 ta*



paul174 said:


> My 1994 Talbot (Autosleeper Rambler had a much bigger fuel filter fitted when i bought it and so far i have had no problems


I've been told that pre 1990 Talbots / Ducato's (i.e. with the indicators underneath the headlights rather than next to them) have a problem with fuel tanks rusting leading to all sorts of carb related problems. Apparently this was fixed for the later models.

Unfortunately mine is a 1990  so I have a large fuel filter fitted and I'm seriously considering removing the tank and sealing it (not to difficult a job, I've been told, but a bit of a pain)


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