# UK Wild camping and services



## Curtisden (Mar 23, 2009)

Hi
I have had a caravan for 25 +years so know the ropes in the main, but am new to owning a motorhome and I have one or two questions re touring in the UK.
France etc is well covered with public service points and I understand how to find and use them from my travels but as every car park in the UK seems to have a barrier and there are no aires that I can find in the UK what does one do with the waste grey water and more importantly the Loo when its full.
I take it even though I have been a CC member for many years they would not welcome a passing motorhome member to drop by and drop its waste without staying a night. I can see a letter coming on to the CC mag?
The thought of wandering into a public loo toilet cassette in tow again does not appeal either, so what do you time served chaps do?
Is there any data on locations where services are available for the UK like the information for the continent?


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

There are many many posts on the subject- having a quick search may help. Some sites will allow discharging at a fee, some won't. Use of public toilets for disposal is common, water obtained from garages, graveyards etc.


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## ardgour (Mar 22, 2008)

If touring the remoter parts of Scotland, empty cassette (using enviro friendly chemicals only) in public loo - many forestry car parks have them. Water - we carry a bucket and watering can so if a tap not available anywhere then fill watering can from a convenient loch or stream and fill tank (after removing any lumpy bits :lol: ). This water is fine for washing - or cooking if it is going to be boiled. We always carry a separate bottle of drinking water.
Some people have clever hosepipe/ pump arrangements that they use to get water from rivers and lochs and water purification systems fitted to the van but we are more basic than that.

Chris


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## thegamwellsmythes (Jul 29, 2008)

The Camping and Caravanning club let members empty out grey and toilet waste and fill up with water for a fee. I think it was about £6 last time we did it. That isn't too bad if you only do it every 3 days. Don't know about the Caravan Club though.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Generally for grey water I just find a quiet lane with a grass verge pull in and empty it on the grass. As long as people aren't going to sunbathe on it it does no harm in fact it's good for plants, grass etc.

Public loos are fine I think as long as you don't leave a mess. I know what you mean though so I usually try and find a quiet one without too many prying eyes


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

We carry the liners for a pedal bin for rubbish. They are perfumed and bigger than carrier bags. They also double up as a discreet container for the toilet cassete when in a public place. Simply slip the cassete in the bag and carry to a public convenience.

ps, You might get chucked off the bus, so make sure you are in walking distance. :lol: :lol:


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

747 said:


> We carry the liners for a pedal bin for rubbish. They are perfumed and bigger than carrier bags. They also double up as a discreet container for the toilet cassete when in a public place. Simply slip the cassete in the bag and carry to a public convenience.
> 
> ps, You might get chucked off the bus, so make sure you are in walking distance. :lol: :lol:


I have seen vans carrying empty plastic 10/15 ltr paint buckets, the type with air sealed tops for the same thing.

Charlie

As for the bus :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

We carry a spare cassette, as do lots of others. Doubles the time between needing to empty. Just make sure you empty loo, empty waste water and fill up with fresh whenever you get an opportunity.

Denise


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

After reading some answers, what I am going to suggest may be a little too* radical.*BUT how about PAYING for site,not every night,but now and again. Stops all that creeping around ( yes i have seen you 8O ) and allows a good night sleep then chance to fill up and dis-charge as one should. Public loo's are NOT there for us to empty the cra**er in. :x


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Speaking for myself, I don't like staying on sites. I am not sure why, too organised or too corralled maybe. Given the choice of staying on a site, even if it was free, or staying in a lay-by I would choose the lay-by every time. Luckily we usually manage to do much better than a lay-by.

To refute the cheapskate accusations before they start, I will happily stay in a restaurant car park and pay top whack for a meal, Alan.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Good advice IMO from Sersol  

£0.02

D.


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## madontour (May 19, 2008)

Curtisden, 
if you're still a member of the CC why not try a CL. They're cheap and quiet and if you don't stay the night you've not lost too much. In fact, I bet most CL owners would let you service the van, without staying, for two or three quid.


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## RubberTramp (Aug 24, 2010)

erneboy said:


> Speaking for myself, I don't like staying on sites. I am not sure why, too organised or too corralled maybe. Given the choice of staying on a site, even if it was free, or staying in a lay-by I would choose the lay-by every time. Luckily we usually manage to do much better than a lay-by.
> 
> To refute the cheapskate accusations before they start, I will happily stay in a restaurant car park and pay top whack for a meal, Alan.


Good stuff, I agree.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sersol said:


> After reading some answers, what I am going to suggest may be a little too* radical.*BUT how about PAYING for site,not every night,but now and again. Stops all that creeping around ( yes i have seen you 8O ) and allows a good night sleep then chance to fill up and dis-charge as one should. Public loo's are NOT there for us to empty the cra**er in. :x


There's a huge flaw in your plan, it would mean staying on a site.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

ardgour said:


> Some people have clever hosepipe/ pump arrangements that they use to get water from rivers and lochs and water purification systems fitted to the van but we are more basic than that.
> 
> Chris


I wonder how high a shurflo pump would lift water, I like the idea though. :idea: :idea: :idea:


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Let's be fair to Sersol and davesport.

We do not know their circumstances and they may depend on using public toilets as they do not have one at home. :? 

Maybe that is why they use sites so often.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

747 said:


> Let's be fair to Sersol and davesport.
> 
> We do not know their circumstances and they may depend on using public toilets as they do not have one at home. :?
> 
> Maybe that is why they use sites so often.


I take that comment,regardless of smilies as a personal insult. As such i would like you to withdraw it please.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

sersol said:


> 747 said:
> 
> 
> > Let's be fair to Sersol and davesport.
> ...


As I never intentionally set out to insult or upset anyone on this forum then I will apologise. If we were standing face to face, I probably would not apologise because my sense of humour is at odds with yours, assuming you have one.

My cassette is emptied down my own toilet at home as well as in public toilets and I fail to see any difference.

On another forum (for wilders) there is a standing offer to allow another member access to my facilities if he/she is passing. That means I have turned my toilet into a public one.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

747 often makes witty posts and never sets out to offend, you are being a little too sensitive I think.

This should not be entirely unfamiliar to you as your remark earlier in this thread made liberal use of sarcasm which I, and it seems everybody else, assumed was also intended as humour, Alan.

I crossed posts with you 747.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

747 said:


> sersol said:
> 
> 
> > 747 said:
> ...


Thankyou.
Apology accepted,not pointing the finger at anyone but TBH I'm a bit fed up with the poor name that some m/h's give to most others.I am not sure that the action of disposing of the contents of the toilet in public toilets should be recommended. Lets face it if people who do it thinks its ok, why do most of them creep around or hide the cassette when doing so !!!.


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

[/quote] I wonder how high a shurflo pump would lift water, I like the idea though. :idea: :idea: :idea:[/quote]

Even a good pump will struggle lifting water more than a few metres - fire appliance pumps struggle with more than 7 meters. Submersible pumps - different matter - water is being pushed, so depends on outlet pressure.

1bar = 10m height (in theory) but flow decreases as height increases.


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

Night Soil men have never been popular - I know that my toilet emptying is going to smell, no matter what I do when emptying, so perhaps it covers the embarrassment factor.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

This whole thread involves some quite serious environmental consequences. As a result of the discussion, we have just aquired 42 self sealing bags for our six week jaunt to Spain. In order not to cause any damage to the fragile nature that surounds us, we will be bringing back the daily contents to dispose of correctly in our outside privy! :? 
Alan


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I have used the 'bog in a bag' trick twice.

Both times when parked in a car park that was quite busy in a town. Peterhead was one and I forget the other one.

It would obviously look a little strange to the average non-motorhomer. Especially if I tried it at a Supermarket, although I could use a trolley there.

I might have just stumbled upon a good idea. :? 8)


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

rosalan said:


> This whole thread involves some quite serious environmental consequences. As a result of the discussion, we have just aquired 42 self sealing bags for our six week jaunt to Spain. In order not to cause any damage to the fragile nature that surounds us, we will be bringing back the daily contents to dispose of correctly in our outside privy! :?
> Alan


I'd love to be around when the UK Border Agency stop you at Dover........... 8O


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

The answer is obvious ....

if you re dumping grey waste,why not go the whole hog and pee in the sink !!!!!

should be worth a couple of extra days !!!


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

sersol said:


> After reading some answers, what I am going to suggest may be a little too* radical.*BUT how about PAYING for site,not every night,but now and again. Stops all that creeping around ( yes i have seen you 8O ) and allows a good night sleep then chance to fill up and dis-charge as one should. Public loo's are NOT there for us to empty the cra**er in. :x


Why not? after all what goes into your black water tank is the same as what goes in a loo. Where on earth does the black water point connect to if it's not the same sewer or septic tank that normal toilets are plumbed into. The most important thing is to leave the toilet clean for the next person to use. There are quite a few people, and not just campers, who don't do that.

Wobby


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

rosalan said:


> This whole thread involves some quite serious environmental consequences. As a result of the discussion, we have just aquired 42 self sealing bags for our six week jaunt to Spain. In order not to cause any damage to the fragile nature that surounds us, we will be bringing back the daily contents to dispose of correctly in our outside privy! :?


How are the environmental consequences different between an outside privy in the UK and a public toilet in Spain when it comes to emptying the contents of the cassette?


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## mandyandandy (Oct 1, 2006)

If I am emptying our tank anywhere (which is usually an Aire or Elsan point on a UK rally) I always take a small pack of the disinfectant wipes you can buy at any shop just for wiping around or odd splashes that always seem to escape when emptying. 

We have a SOG so can empty most places, however we are aware that the smell is a little different to the green poo that some of you have    

Grey waste we empty in the usual spots or behind hedges if on rallies and farmer often requests this, or down drains next to road if pushed. Will not let him drain on open road or grassy field as I have read too many reasons not to on here  

Mandy


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sersol said:


> I am not sure that the action of disposing of the contents of the toilet in public toilets should be recommended. Lets face it if people who do it thinks its ok, why do most of them creep around or hide the cassette when doing so !!!.


Obvious I would have though, think about it, what are you carrying, I too don't want to be seen carrying a box of sloshing turds :roll: :roll: :roll: regardless of where I am.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I cannot understand why a public toilet is not used in the first place, why fill your cassette :wink: 

The case against dumping a full cassette down a toilet, apart from the possibility of making a mess, is the risk of blocking it up. You just do not have the volumes of water to help the flush that you have at a proper disposal point.

peedee


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

peedee said:


> I cannot understand why a public toilet is not used in the first place, why fill your cassette :wink:


Simple, wild camping isn't a good idea near to a public loo, if you can find one which hasn't been closed.



peedee said:


> The case against dumping a full cassette down a toilet, apart from the possibility of making a mess, is the risk of blocking it up. You just do not have the volumes of water to help the flush that you have at a proper disposal point.
> 
> peedee


I have to disagree here, at least half of the contents will be liquid, if it's been filled for a while and taken for a ride the other half would be less than totally solid too (distasteful subject this) When I use a loo to empty, I flush as soon as the tank starts to empty, I do not press the yellow button so as not to overwhelm the toilet pan, if the cistern refills I will flush again, and again when it's empty, if there is a suitable tap I will re-fill with water and flush any remaining contents down the loo, flush again and tidy any evidence we were ever there


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Once again I detect an anti wilding tone to some of these posts. Most of the wilders I know go out of their way to tidy up and I'm sure many public loos are left more sanitised than they were before we used then as are the many wild spots we use and care for. There is very little danger in blocking a loo as most of it's broken down and you could pour gallons of the stuff in without problem.

I think we tend to be discreet (or creep around as you say) simply not to draw attention to ourselves. Joe public doesn't need an excuse to object to anything in the uk an will spring a the chance to ban anything it decides it doesn't like the look of. Sadly it's a very thin line us wilders tread in the uk.

It's the same when emptying the grey. I know it's harmless but Id rather joe public never saw me emptying it as he's bound to think it's my loo or something


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I said it was a risk Kevin. Not everyone will do what you do otherwise why do we experience so many blocked disposal points?

peedee


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

No I am not a fan of wilding Barry although I do partake on occasions. Largely my experiences have not been good and no doubt you will say I have picked the wrong spots!

peedee


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

There are about 3500 CLs and CSs that all have dump facilities and drinking water taps. It is worth a phone call to one near where you are to ask if you could pay a fee just to dump/replenish. I know some CLs now are fitting Motorhome dump points for RV type disposal.

They are *limited to 5 van staying on them *overnight but there is no such restriction to vans calling in and leaving.

A night in a CL is not a high price to pay. Personally I don't use club or commercial site but stick to the CL network from both the big clubs.

Disposing of a cassette of toilet waste that has not been treated with non green additives is no different to using a loo normally. I have often used a public toilet but I use a SOG with no chemicals added. I carry a bottle of water to rinse and paper to mop up any drips. I also use an air freshener afterwards to leave the cubicle smelling nice for the next user. That is something other (normal) users don't do. I try to be at the loo early or late to avoid clashing with normal users.

We do need more disposal facilities and taps. I would pay to use such a facility if it was available.


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

peedee said:


> I cannot understand why a public toilet is not used in the first place, why fill your cassette :wink:
> 
> The case against dumping a full cassette down a toilet, apart from the possibility of making a mess, is the risk of blocking it up. You just do not have the volumes of water to help the flush that you have at a proper disposal point.
> 
> peedee


If you park up in nice remote places then they do not have convenient public toilets. I am not just talking about overnight stops but during the day as well.

With age you cannot hold like young people can, so having a loo on board is very convenient.

As for blocking. Each flush is about 2 gallons which is more than most people would use to flush a dump point. A cassette holds about 20 litres (4 gallons) The loo copes equally well with both volumes. The problem with blocked dump points is that people try to dispose of dirty nappies and sanitary towels in them. The drains cannot cope with these items.

I leave a loo I have used to empty my cassette in a better cleaner state than it was quite often, not the reverse.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

'blocked disposal points' Peedee? sounds like another reason not to use sites.

On point of liquid/solid, I use bio sachets and they break down to liquid very quickl and the smell is of the bio itself - not always the same at home!

Re asking CL/CS owners for daytime use of facilities, it would be very useful if MHF members posted their success/failure of obtaining permission. Site owners might worry about too much MH traffic in the wet on grass, but that is their decision.

[Mods - could this be a Sticky?]

Geoff


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

barry...

By the time you ve found a place to dump the gray , jumped out feeling guilty etc....

why not fit one of these if you have the small outlet ....and just push a button !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-DC-1-Elec...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3368ead9a3

on my old bedford i had the much larger out let and rigged up a cord to wip it open from the cab ...


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> 'blocked disposal points' Peedee? sounds like another reason not to use sites.
> Geoff


I used "disposal points" as a general term, I have seen blocked points at aires, sites and public toilets although the public ones may or may not have been due to cassettes being emptied but it is a fair bet the others were. If site and aires are being blocked what makes a public toilet disposal point any different?
peedee


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I agree about Cl sites. It's a good idea. I'm sure those with accesible points would not object for a fee of perhaps £2 or £3. I did mention a while ago about adding water and emptying places to the campsite map but nothing came of it. 

I tend to use Cl sites a lot in the uk if there isn't a really good wild spot so it's not really. Problem. 

I'm not sure About the electronic gadget to dump the grey. It's just one more thing for me to break!

One thing I would add. If (and I don't think it would happen) I did manage to block a loo I would make sure I did my utmost to unblock it even if it meant sticking my arm in.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sersol says, "Lets face it if people who do it thinks its ok, why do most of them creep around or hide the cassette when doing so !!!."


Well it seems that a good many people do not understand what we are doing. That's fair enough, why should they. I am willing to bet that most would have no real idea as to what the cassette contains and many may think there are nasty chemicals in there.

When emptying in a public toilet I wait till there is no one else around. That is common courtesy because we use a sog and the smell is quite nasty. I don't creep around I just go and empty. I would never empty while someone else is in the building as that would be unkind and might engender misunderstanding. I would be quite happy to discuss it with anyone although it is easier not to have to engage in lengthy explanations. 

I never make a mess and if the toilet was not clean before I use it I ensure that it is afterwards as I would not want anyone to think I made any mess.

Because we use the sog the contents of our toilet will not cause a problem no matter what system it is emptied into. There is sufficient liquid in the cassette to ensure that the contents will flow as they should.

I empty in exactly the same way at home, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

spatz1 said:


> why not fit one of these if you have the small outlet ....and just push a button !
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-DC-1-Elec...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3368ead9a3


Added to my shopping list, I'm always forgetting to close our sink waste tank.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

As it has been mentioned that toilet and other liquid waste is disposed of in grass verges and remote locations it should be mentioned that such a practice is an unlawful act constituting an illegal deposit of waste under the provisions of Part II of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. 

The relevant sections of this Act are enforced rigorously by the Environment Agency and those found and prosecuted for making an unlawful deposit are subject to a fine and/or imprisonment or both. 

This is not an anti wildcamping observation - I'm an occasional wildcamper myself - but it seems that some may think that disposing and/or dumping of liquid or any other waste in the countryside or anywhere else other than at appropriate facilities is permissable and the point of this post is to say that it is not.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

gelathae said:


> As it has been mentioned that toilet and other liquid waste is disposed of in grass verges and remote locations it should be mentioned that such a practice is an unlawful act constituting an illegal deposit of waste under the provisions of Part II of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
> 
> The relevant sections of this Act are enforced rigorously by the Environment Agency and those found and prosecuted for making an unlawful deposit are subject to a fine and/or imprisonment or both.
> 
> This is not an anti wildcamping observation - I'm an occasional wildcamper myself - but it seems that some may think that disposing and/or dumping of liquid or any other waste in the countryside or anywhere else other than at appropriate facilities is permissable and the point of this post is to say that it is not.


While not denegrating your knowledge on the law, I just wonder how this information is promulgated [good delegated legislation word] to other animals ( I do include humans as animals, having obsrved their behaviour) ?

Are there notices in the field " Please sh*t only in the middle of the field as a discharge near the drainage ditch is a statuatory offence"?

And under EU 2011/ 19547 has it got to be translated into German for the Fresians?

Farmers collect slurry to distribute on the fields.

The countryside is the countryside.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

If it's illegal to discharge any liquid then it must be illegal to wash your car and let the waste water drain into the roads or storm drains. 

Can some one tell me what the difference is between me draining my grey water which the lovely and frankly very clean mrs d has showered in and someone sending hundreds of gallons of suds and water down the road washing their cars?


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> gelathae said:
> 
> 
> > As it has been mentioned that toilet and other liquid waste is disposed of in grass verges and remote locations it should be mentioned that such a practice is an unlawful act constituting an illegal deposit of waste under the provisions of Part II of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
> ...


The law is the law and its applicability is enshrined in the 1990 Act. If you are interested you might like to trawl through Part II and then section 75 and then study the various statutory instruments and commencement orders made in the 20+ years since the Act was implemeted. The spraying of slurry in the countryside is subject to separate control.

As a general point I doubt very much whether its much of a defence if caught depositing detritus in the countryside to say to the authorities that animals deposit their waste in fields so why should not humans.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

I haven't seen any post suggesting dumping black waste in the countryside, only grey which is "almost" clean water! At worse it is washing up water.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I would be interested to see chapter and verse outlawing grey waste. If true it also raises the interesting issue of cesspits. I have one of the old fashioned ones at my house and all the waste goes into a single tank. The solids settle and the liquids head off down a pipe through an adjoining field into a ditch. What comes out of that pipe is far more unpleasant than any grey water that comes out of my motorhome tank.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Ok quick couple of questions.
How many closet dumpers stay on sites ?
How many "wild" camp so they are away from others ?
How many people stop in places because they don't want to pay site fee's ?
These are NOT trick questions and NO hidden agenda on my part.

I have stopped in remote places myself. I wouldn't call it "wild" camping and not something I would always do by choice. In my case more of needs must rather than,"I like being on my own".
I have also found that these ideal "wild" camping areas normally but not always have multiple vans there. (got this info from another forum) I'm not sure just how "wild" Tesco car park or an industrial estate is.

I'm not knocking anyone who wants to "wild" camp,if being on your own in a beautiful location causing no problem,clearing up and sensibly disposing of waste then great.

My objection is "FREELOADING", I'm NOT suggesting that any posters on this thread are that. 

Here's an example. The road after the Sandbanks ferry used to tolerate the odd over nighter with no problem. Then they moved in...the "freeloaders" with the attitude that they would almost turn it into a campsite.An extreme case was a caravan with its awning there all season. There were also plenty of m/h's parked for the whole weekend and longer.
The situation is that signs went up and over nighting is now banned.

So as far as I am concerned you can empty your cassette with your plastice carrying bag,(I like the are freshener one  ) where you like. On a personal level I would still stop at a site,cl,or cs every few days to service tanks and fill with fresh (and I hope clean safe drinking water)
Thanks for your input some have made me laugh and some cringe but thats life. For a real wake up call on "freeloaders" MHF comes nowhere near to another forum.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sersol said:


> Ok quick couple of questions.





sersol said:


> How many closet dumpers stay on sites ?


Not sure what a "closet dumper" is, but probably Not us, maybe just you then.



sersol said:


> How many "wild" camp so they are away from others ?


Partly but mainly because the views are uninterrupted in the places we stay.



sersol said:


> How many people stop in places because they don't want to pay site fee's ?


 not us.

These are NOT trick questions and NO hidden agenda on my part.



sersol said:


> I have stopped in remote places myself. I wouldn't call it "wild" camping


 What would you call it then?


sersol said:


> and not something I would always do by choice. In my case more of needs must rather than,"I like being on my own".
> I have also found that these ideal "wild" camping areas normally but not always have multiple vans there. (got this info from another forum) I'm not sure just how "wild" Tesco car park or an industrial estate is.
> 
> I'm not knocking anyone who wants to "wild" camp,if being on your own in a beautiful location causing no problem,clearing up and sensibly disposing of waste then great.
> ...


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

I think by and large most 'wildcampers' are very responsible people who appreciate and respect the environment around them and I would say it is very rare that any of us would dump our waste water or empty our chemical toilets in a couldn't care less type of way! 

Like many have already said; most of us are very selective regarding the emptying of our cassettes in public toilets and most of us are extra vigilant about cleanliness and hygiene when we do! Unfortunately, a lot of public toilets are often not very well maintained and as many posters in this thread have already said; we 'wildcampers' often leave them cleaner and more disinfected than they were prior to our using them, so in my opinion, the health & hygiene 'argument' very rarely applies to your average 'wildcamper' user! 

Most of the time when we 'wildcamp' (well in the UK anyway) we would book onto a site for a night in order to refill and empty etc but if we ever do need to use a public toilet to urgently empty our cassette, we would do but only very discreetly and we would never choose a busy public convenience as it would just not feel right carrying our Thetford cassette into one that was used by so many others. Not because we are being 'sneaky' or doing anything wrong - but I suppose its because ones toilet habits and the like are such a private and personal matter and we would feel slightly embarrassed due to what our Thetford contained!  When you are on a campsite and are quietly standing at the chemical toilet disposal point, you don't get the quizzical looks or risk offending anyone do you and because everyone's there for the same reason, we all just go about silently performing our task without explanation to man nor beast - but in a public loo - the other users may wonder what on earth we are doing and to be  perfectly honest we would prefer not to have to go into any 
details!!!  So instead, we lookout for public conveniences in discreet locations and ensure that we leave no evidence of our visit! 

As for our Thetford 'contents' sometimes blocking the system etc - I suppose the reasons this may happen at a chemical toilet disposal point on a campsite from time to time is because of the volume of people doing the same job and the system not always  being able to adequately cope with the demand! Whereas; in a quiet public toilet, where a lonely 'wildcamper' is carefully emptying his cassette then it's likely that he/she will be the one and only member of the public doing this!

The emptying of our washing up and shower water is again sensitively and responsibly disposed of and we either empty the waste tank when we book onto a site, or if we need to empty it sooner, then we lookout for drains on the side of the road where we can let the waste water run into the gutter or we use a bucket/bowl to empty our waste tank into and then we (or I should say my husband) makes several trips backwards and forwards in order to empty the bowl/bucket down a drain or beside a hedgerow etc. 

In my opinion; based on our own experiences, I would say that those of us who enjoy 'wildcamping' respect and appreciate the freedom this allows us and we go out of our way NOT to draw attention to ourselves in a negative way and the last thing any of us want is bad publicity!  So generally, it isn't we 'wildcampers' you have to worry about it's the rest of em! 

Sue


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I think we are getting several posts explaining the reasons for wild camping, most are about the views, not being too close to others etc.

Obviously nobody posts 'I wild camp to be a freeloader'

I wild camp for the reasons above plus

1 Access to good walking.

2 Quietness, birdsong in morning

3 Lack of light pollution for stargazing.

4 Sitting quietly in the twilight , with a glass, watching hares gambolling, swifts, bats etc.

5 Walking distance to (and from) good pub (not easy at every site)

6 Freedom of knowing I can move on at 0500 rather than wait for site curfew to end at 0700.

As for paying, I do use sites occasionally, e.g. near Kinder Scout because the CC&C site for night was two pounds more than the public car park for 5 hours. Also if I want to empty cassette, but then usually just pay the service rate and move on. 

Even on site I do not use the shower block ( do not want to have to undress in the shower and drop clothes on wet floor, or show my knobbly knees walking across in d/gown) so use my own facilities.

I admit that the cost of sites is a factor in my thinking, partly as a single 12-15 quid seems a lot for the little use I make of the facilities, but it is a minor negative factor compared with the major positive factors above.

Last thought, do people really overnight in Supermarket CPs, Industrial estates and M/way Service Areas by choice? They would have to pay ME for that!

THE END

Geoff


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

peribro said:


> I would be interested to see chapter and verse outlawing grey waste. If true it also raises the interesting issue of cesspits. I have one of the old fashioned ones at my house and all the waste goes into a single tank. The solids settle and the liquids head off down a pipe through an adjoining field into a ditch. What comes out of that pipe is far more unpleasant than any grey water that comes out of my motorhome tank.


The guidance issued by Natural England (DEFRA) for Caravan and camping exemptions has the following information under the Caravan Code section.

_For touring other than on sites equipped with toilets, (the caravanner) will carry his/her own sanitary equipment (usually chemical closet and approved related fluid) and dispose of the contents only at a point provided for the purpose. If burial is necessary, as perhaps on private property, this will not be done in the vicinity of any water course.

Allows no waste water from the caravan to foul the ground, ensures that suitable receptacles are connected to the waste water pipes to collect the waste, and the receptacles emptied as necessary. In the few instances where no disposal point is provided, minimum fouling is achieved by distributing the water over a considerable area, as along a hedge._

It would appear therefor that DEFRA do consider the disposal of waste (grey) water in the countryside with consideration to pollution of water courses is acceptable.

Also that burial is also considered to be acceptable for the contents of cassette toilets *with the permission of the landowner* on private land.

I use a site where burial is accepted as the way of disposing of toilet waste. I however prefer to put the cassette in the car and drive to the public toilet to dispose of it.

This site has arrangement with the landowner to collect drinking water from the farm. So it is a case of dump toilet contents, wash hands in the toilets, then collect water on the way back.

*NOTE* this is not an excuse to open the waste water valve on a highway or drive with it open dribbling water as you go.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm so glad to see that "Kev" has learned and is able to to use the quote button. I've very impressed.
So as not to turn this thread into a slanging match I'll post no further on this thread. 
Rather leaving that for people to throw their dummies out of their pram when anyone might dare to question the disposal ethics of their cra**er


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sersol, there was only one outbreak of hostilities on this thread and you were the culprit. To my mind that makes your comment rather surprising, Alan.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> I think we are getting several posts explaining the reasons for wild camping, most are about the views, not being too close to others etc.
> 
> Obviously nobody posts 'I wild camp to be a freeloader'
> I wild camp for the reasons above plus
> ...


You can do this on many a CL and CS.

peedee


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

johnthompson said:


> peribro said:
> 
> 
> > I would be interested to see chapter and verse outlawing grey waste. If true it also raises the interesting issue of cesspits. I have one of the old fashioned ones at my house and all the waste goes into a single tank. The solids settle and the liquids head off down a pipe through an adjoining field into a ditch. What comes out of that pipe is far more unpleasant than any grey water that comes out of my motorhome tank.
> ...


This guidance relates to those who seek exemption from normal planning and environmental rules to organisations who run rallies such as the Caravan Club and Caravan and Camping Club; it does not give carte blanche to all and sundry to dump black and grey waste in the countryside.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

peedee

Yes you are right about CLs and CSs (and one I have used was 20m from the pub door!) but I think of 'sites' as bing the bigger ones. Maybe my misunderstanding.

gelathae

You are the only one on this thread who has lumped [pun intended to keep discussion light] together grey and black water disposal.

Geoff


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

sersol said:


> I'm so glad to see that "Kev" has learned and is able to to use the quote button. I've very impressed.
> So as not to turn this thread into a slanging match I'll post no further on this thread.
> Rather leaving that for people to throw their dummies out of their pram when anyone might dare to question the disposal ethics of their cra**er


If you are going to inject 'humour' or 'irony' into your posts then please stop demanding apologies for the slightest hint of humour coming back at you.

Thanks.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Why do some people take the huff in what is a good lively, occasionally funny and heated debate?

Nowt wrong with some strong opinions just get stuck in with yours.

Wilding to me is all about finding the perfect 10 out of 10 nivarna wild spot. Any one Reading my blogs will see I have spent years searching for it. I've spent hours on the scooter seeking them out. Never found the perfect 10 yet but I've come close. Somehow I hope I never find it as the searching is part of the fun. A typical example might be 8000 ft up in the Pyrenees with nothing but views and the calling of marmots to disturb you with a night sky so clear you can see planets! Or a remote beach to yourself on a Scottish ilsland. Tesco's car park? No thanks.

Now I will admit that the fact it's free is an added attraction, however it isn't free. I've spent a fortune on a van, more money fixing it as I keep breaking it not to mention the cost of fuel to get there. Having to the. Pay £20-40 a night to park in a row amongst tents, kids and peering tuggers when I only need their services every 4 days takes the shine off it IMO.

I'm an avid member of the wildys forum as well as many discussions on here with fellow wildys and all the ones I have met or know are responsible and respectible people who value their frankly fragile pastime dearly and the last thing any of us would do is jepordise it in anyway by breaking the wild camping rule book.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> peedee
> 
> Yes you are right about CLs and CSs (and one I have used was 20m from the pub door!) but I think of 'sites' as bing the bigger ones. Maybe my misunderstanding.
> 
> ...


I have lumped the two together because waste is waste irrespective of whether it is black or grey.

This is the position in its most simplistic form.

*33 Prohibition on unauthorised or harmful deposit, treatment or disposal etc. of waste.E+W.*

(1)Subject to [F1subsections (1A), (1B), (2) and (3) below] and, in relation to Scotland, to section 54 below, a person shall not-.

(a)deposit controlled waste [F2or extractive waste], or knowingly cause or knowingly permit controlled waste [F2or extractive waste] to be deposited in or on any land unless [F3an environmental permit] authorising the deposit is in force and the deposit is in accordance with the licence;

Section 34 requires those generating waste to ensure it is dealt with appropriately by for example handing it to a person authorised to receive it or to deposit it at an appropriate facility.

*75 Meaning of "waste" and household, commercial and industrial waste *

(a)domestic property, that is to say, a building or self-contained part of a building which is used wholly for the purposes of living accommodation;.

(b)a caravan (as defined in section 29(1) of the M1Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960) which usually and for the time being is situated on a caravan site (within the meaning of that Act);

I presume that nobody on here believes it is appropritae or legal to dispose of solid waste (litter etc) onto the streets or to let the contents of their tanks out onto the road in public view. Doing it covertly is no different.

However there is nothing unlawful about depositing grey and black waste into a public toilet (unless there are local ByeLaws in force preventing such a practice) and that is by far the most appropriate way to deal with the problem in the absence of other facilities.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Mmm sersol.... "FREELOADERS" is slightly unfair and is a rather generalised term used to describe those amongst us who like to stop overnight in some idyllic or peaceful location, rather than on a 'soulless' campsite where in many cases your only view is of  your neighbours caravan, the shower block or a pitch dividing hedge! 

A lot of the people we meet during our travels, who also like to 'wildcamp' - have spent a lot of money on their motorhomes and therefore, I doubt if saving on campsite fees is their main reason for enjoying the 'wildcamping' lifestyle!

Yes of course, there are and always will be people in this world who expect and want everything for free and who seem to think the whole world owes them a living - but you find this in all walks of life and this will always be the case - but I don't really think that many hardworking motorhome owners, who have clearly worked damn hard all their lives for their vehicles come into this category do you? OK - I do admit that the fact that finding a special place to 'wildcamp' in a lovely location and it is not costing you a penny to stay overnight there, doesn't have it's attractions and this certainly is a very welcome and much appreciated bonus - but if suddenly we had to pay to park in these spots, then most of us would still park there I can assure you of that and so it's my belief that it's more to do with FREEDOM than FREELOADING!

As for staying on a Tesco car park - well we've  done this when we were catching an early morning Ferry from Dover to Calais or we've stayed on a motorway service station nr Birmingham when we were driving the 400 mile journey from our home in Skegness to Cornwall  but we consider these more of an 'overnight stopover' rather than what we term as a 'wildcamping' experience!  

I hope this helps you to have more of a balanced view of 'wildcamping' and I hope next time you come across any motorhomers enjoying this freedom you view us all a little more positively! Come and join us - you would be very welcome and I promise we don't bite! :lol. :lol: :lol:

Sue


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Thanks 'galathae' for the 'simplistic form'

It is as clear as mud, but I suppose mud is waste - discharged by whom, since the rain is presumably not waste and the soil owner did not discharge it?

Ad absurdum methinks.

I am not expecting, nor want a reply.

Geoff


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## Chascass (May 10, 2007)

gelathae said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > peedee
> ...


As you say Black and Grey are both waste, but they both do not have to be treated the same way, as a example of this is, I was a manager in the construction industry and on one occasion I was interviewed under caution by the Environment Agency because a construction site I was responsible for had pumped contaminated water directly onto the highway, we were not prosecuted because a risk assessment had been completed indicating contaminated water would be pumped onto a grassed area some distance from any water course allowing any contaminates to be filtered out, the Environment Agency accepted this as a acceptable procedure

Now I'm sure Black waste could not be treated in this way, but a thought out disposal method would be

Charlie.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

> I have lumped the two together because waste is waste irrespective of whether it is black or grey.


If I had a choice of falling into a Vat of either black or grey water I know exactly which one I'd choose. 

Pete


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sersol said:


> I'm so glad to see that "Kev" has learned and is able to to use the quote button. I've very impressed.
> So as not to turn this thread into a slanging match I'll post no further on this thread.
> Rather leaving that for people to throw their dummies out of their pram when anyone might dare to question the disposal ethics of their cra**er


Sarcasm, not seen that on here for ages, as for dummies, I'll have a word with Dave maybe he can have one of the smileys changed for you.

If you wind your neck in you will notice I only responded to your questions and made a few comments on what you said in the same thread.

I think you might fare better if you were a little more understanding of how people like to camp whether it be wild or site, unless someone has a go at the way you like to do it.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Sonesta said:


> Mmm sersol.... "FREELOADERS" is slightly unfair and is a rather generalised term used to describe those amongst us who like to stop overnight in some idyllic or peaceful location,
> Sue


Sue,
Not too many of those about in this country and the trend is if there are they soon become overused and abused. Not only is Sandbanks out of bounds but Upton on Severn, Southwold, Aldeburgh, Swanage all spring to mind as having introduced motorhome bans in recent times. These are well documented on the forums and with the increase in motorhome numbers, it is I think, a trend likely to continue.

Those that I do see wilding in England are usually parked in laybys with traffic roaring past or in some little side street or turn. 

There are many campsites, CLs etc with wonderful views so not all are the pits.

peedee


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The UK attitude to motorhomes requires adjusting to match the attitudes in the bulk of Europe. 

I am parked on the shores of Lough Erne at a car park beside a friend's house. We have been coming here to visit our friends and have a BBQ a few nights every year for years. Recently a No Overnight Parking sign has been erected. This is a backward step which is particularly worrying as this is a Fermanagh District Council car park. Fermanagh relies on tourism but seems not to want motorhomes. 

I was here when the events which led to the erection of the signs took place. My friend had a disagreement with a family who had "set up camp" in the car park. They were being untidy and noisy and were poking around behind people's houses looking for stuff to steal to burn on a bonfire. My friend contacted the council to have them moved on. They were moved and the signs followed a short while later. There is a toilet block and bins here so there was no problem with waste disposal.

This car park is adjacent to a jetty and many people joining friends on boats park here for days and even weeks. Although the sign says No Overnight Parking it has not been applied to my knowledge. I wonder if it was to be applied would cars be included too.

We are lucky, our friends own a restaurant (sadly now closed) and we have an open invitation to use their car park. Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

erneboy said:


> The UK attitude to motorhomes requires adjusting to match the attitudes in the bulk of Europe.
> 
> I am parked on the shores of Lough Erne at a car park beside a friend's house. We have been coming here to visit our friends and have a BBQ a few nights every year for years. Recently a No Overnight Parking sign has been erected. This is a backward step which is particularly worrying as this is a Fermanagh District Council car park. Fermanagh relies on tourism but seems not to want motorhomes.
> 
> ...


It only takes one Alan.

Hopefully the sign is more to give the council/police a bit more in the way of teeth in case the same happens, and not to deter normal users. or freeloaders as we are now called :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I like being a freeloader. I'm currently parked at the top of Sacro Monte at Orta San Giulio on lake Orta in Italy and guess what? It's Free! 

Mind you we have struggled to find any nice wild spots in Switzerland and italy but certainly no problems getting rid of waste as the rest of Europe appreciates the needs of us motorhomers and we are not treated as undesirables.

Suits me as Im not coming back!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

After two years in Europe I have been home for three weeks. I reckon another two weeks will do and then back to Europe where we are welcome. 

Shame on the UK in my view but if my preferred type of tourism is frowned on here I am quite happy to go back to where it is welcome and spend my money there with those who appreciate it, Alan.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Got any room in your lockers for one more Alan.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

peedee said:


> Sue,
> Not too many of those about in this country and the trend is if there are they soon become overused and abused. Not only is Sandbanks out of bounds but Upton on Severn, Southwold, Aldeburgh, Swanage all spring to mind as having introduced motorhome bans in recent times. These are well documented on the forums and with the increase in motorhome numbers, it is I think, a trend likely to continue.
> 
> Those that I do see wilding in England are usually parked in laybys with traffic roaring past or in some little side street or turn.
> ...


Hi peedee,

Well - thankfully we have found many nice 'wildcamping' spots during our travels, many of which have been here in the uk - but of course, we keep a lot of them a closely guarded secret for fear of them becoming overcrowded, spoilt or prohibited!

As for campsites being "the pits" I hope you are not implying that is how I see them as being because if so, that is not the case at all and my reasons for preferring to 'wildcamp' are purely down to personal preference. However, we do also stay on campsites too, especially if we go away with our friends who prefer not to 'wildcamp' and I must say we have stayed on some very nice and picteresque ones too.

My replies in this thread were not submitted in order to criticise campsites or to condemn those that use them - but merely to defend those of us who do enjoy the 'wildcamping' experience and who have been described as being 'FREELOADERS' with little regard for the environment etc!

Sue


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

gelathae said:


> johnthompson said:
> 
> 
> > peribro said:
> ...


And the 400+ other organisations that hold exemption certificates. There are more clubs than the big two that hold event off camping/caravan sites.

The guidance quote "The Caravan Code" which all caravaner's are expected to comply with. Thus by implication if you are expected to comply with the code, you can also follow its guidance.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I like threads like this where there is lots of informed observation on our own way of doing things, but not so much on what others like to do.

A little tolerance would go a long way.

There are rules to be obeyed and there are rules which are beyond belief, if we obeyed them all it would be total chaos as the facilities are just not there for the amount of people wanting to use them.

Basically if we don't leave a mess or chuck our waste products into anywhere which would harm others living creatures, then my attitude is just leave us alone, and we'll do likewise.

We wild camp to be alone, not be herded into a pen and there we must stay despite whatever ASBO recipient decides they like caravans, and is herded next to us, and until they open the gates to let us out, assuming you got there early enough to get in anyway.

Wild camping is freedom, we have a our own rules which those who only site stay would struggle to keep to.

So until you've done it, leave us alone as you do not know what it's like, you can only make assumptions, just like I did when disparaging sites.


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