# weight



## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi folks 
Just had the van weighed it came out as overall 3740kgs front axle 1460 rear axle 2100. the van is sort of loaded for away with full tanks, woman on board no food or clothes the max weight on the van is 3.5t which makes me 240kgs over before the other items.
The vehicle plate indicates front axle 1750 rear axle 2240.
does that 3740 sound right to you cause the guy had not a clue about weighing motorhomes he said I only do lorries the cost for that is 15£.
Please advise.


Ron


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It won't matter whether it's a truck or a motorhome on the weighbridge. The weight is the weight, assuming the weighbridge is properly calibrated, and most commercial ones are.

You could try checking elsewhere but it sounds as though you have a very serious payload problem and are very overweight.

It's a common problem it seems.

You don't want to get caught that much overweight, it's a big percentage. The penalties could be harsh, Alan.


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## javea (Jun 8, 2007)

Chausson said:


> Hi folks
> Just had the van weighed it came out as overall 3740kgs front axle 1460 rear axle 2100. the van is sort of loaded for away with full tanks, woman on board no food or clothes the max weight on the van is 3.5t which makes me 240kgs over before the other items.
> The vehicle plate indicates front axle 1750 rear axle 2240.
> does that 3740 sound right to you cause the guy had not a clue about weighing motorhomes he said I only do lorries the cost for that is 15£.
> ...


Sounds about right to me Ron. I had to uprate my B544SL to 3850 kgs and can just about keep within that weight when fully loaded with fuel, water and the clothes SWMBO takes with her.

Might be an idea for you to talk to S V Tech about replating.

Mike


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Ron

it looks like your van has been downplated to get under 3.5kg, as the combined axle limits seem to be geared up to a bigger overall weight. Maybe get it plated up to 3850 or 4000 - possible just a "paper" exercise?


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Good afternoon, 


I t seams like you are 240kg overweight. The front axle must not exceed the plated number which in your case is1750kg.
If you were to load the rear axle up to 2240 kg the you would only be able to put 1250 kg on the front to make combined weght of 3500 kg.
like wise if you were load the front axle up to1750 kg then you would only be allowed 1750 kg on the back axle.

norm


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## kenthepub (Nov 6, 2010)

*Weights*

Good afternoon Ron

From your post the weights don,t look right the front and rear axle weights should add up to the gross give or take 10 or 20 kilos.

Regards Ken


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chausson said:


> Hi folks
> Just had the van weighed it came out as overall 3740kgs front axle 1460 rear axle 2100. the van is sort of loaded for away with full tanks, woman on board no food or clothes the max weight on the van is 3.5t which makes me 240kgs over before the other items.
> The vehicle plate indicates front axle 1750 rear axle 2240.
> does that 3740 sound right to you cause the guy had not a clue about weighing motorhomes he said I only do lorries the cost for that is 15£.
> ...


Hi Chausson.
On the type of van you have, I am not surprised you are over loaded, it is so easy to do so, but that is a huge over load.
Are you sure it is plated as a 3500kg vehicle and has not been uprated at all, as many Hymer A Class vans can be uprated to 3750 kg or higher.
What chassis is your van, is it a Maxi on 16 inch wheels?
There are so many permutations, you need to check your documents and the VIN plate along with the Hymer build plate. Also what is it taxed at? 3500kg or higher as a PHG vehicle.
The weigh bridge charge is very high, I pay £6 and it only recently increased from£5. Maybe shop around a little!


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

see this recent thread

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-134861-0-days0-orderasc-.html


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## Spiritofherald (May 18, 2012)

I'm no expert on van weights but something doesn't look right. You say the vehicle plate states ' front axle 1750 rear axle 2240' and that is below the measurments taken at the weighbridge so your van should easily be within the designed limit. Where did you get the figure 3.5t max from?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Spiritofherald said:


> I'm no expert on van weights but something doesn't look right. You say the vehicle plate states ' front axle 1750 rear axle 2240' and that is below the measurments taken at the weighbridge so your van should easily be within the designed limit. Where did you get the figure 3.5t max from?


Individual axle weights, if added together are often, but not always higher than the gross weight.


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

You are only 70Kg over just dump some water But seriously try another weighbridge and make sure it is clean you will be surprised how much mud weighs.

joe


changed 10kg to 70kg


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

And what does your tax disc say £165 or £200 + 8) 

tony


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Look at the VIN plate probably just inside the foot-well if not under the bonnet. This will give individual axle weights and these will total more than the MAM (maximum authorized mass) or GVW in old money. A paper exercise will most likely allow you to increase the MAM up to the combined axle weights added together. SVTech are the boys for this. The maximum train weight will not increase.

I have seen single axled single wheeled motorhomes up-rated to 4200 KG although 3850 is more common. The rating of the tyres gives a good clue, have a look at the weight rating on the sidewalls, X 4 and you have the answer to this question.

Keep young!!

C.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

javea said:


> Chausson said:
> 
> 
> > Hi folks
> ...


Hi Mike
Thanks for that I have been in touch with hymer on the issue they are a lot cheaper than S V Tech 250€ as it's only a paper exercise, so it looks as if that's the way I will have to go.

Ron


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

*Re: Weights*



kenthepub said:


> Good afternoon Ron
> 
> From your post the weights don,t look right the front and rear axle weights should add up to the gross give or take 10 or 20 kilos.
> 
> Regards Ken


Thanks Ken, I thought that may be the case but was unsure, so I could just dump the water and that would bring me under the 3.5.

Ron


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Grath said:


> Spiritofherald said:
> 
> 
> > I'm no expert on van weights but something doesn't look right. You say the vehicle plate states ' front axle 1750 rear axle 2240' and that is below the measurments taken at the weighbridge so your van should easily be within the designed limit. Where did you get the figure 3.5t max from?
> ...


It's Monday so I'm not totally with it, but are they often _lower_ than the overall gross weight? 1460 + 2100 = 3560 going through the individual axles. Total is 3740, where's the other 180kg transmitting through?

I'd guess the max axle weights are what the chassis can take, 3500kg is what's been dictated overall to keep within the B licence limitations. So a paper uprate would change the total but not individual axle limits. However the readings from the weighbridge puzzle me....


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

joedenise said:


> You are only 70Kg over just dump some water But seriously try another weighbridge and make sure it is clean you will be surprised how much mud weighs.
> 
> joe
> 
> changed 10kg to 70kg


How do you work that out? He is 240kg over, Alan.

Edit: The total weight given is likely to be correct but the axle weights couldn't then be correct.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Rosbotham said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Spiritofherald said:
> ...


The axle weights on the VIN plate if added together will usually (not always) be higher than the gross VIN plate weight.
The actual weight of the axles added together should be the same as the actual gross weight.


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Grath said:


> The actual weight of the axles added together should be the same as the actual gross weight.


Exactly. One or more readings from the weighbridge is in error, QED I wouldn't trust any of them & would get it weighed elsewhere.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Grath said:


> Chausson said:
> 
> 
> > Hi folks
> ...


The van came out of the factory at 3850 but Hymer down plated to 3.5 this is born out by the plate and the v5.
I have 15 inch wheels on a Mercedes 316 sprinter chassis. As for the weighbridge charge for me it's cheaper to pay the £15 as it would cost a lot more getting to the next nearest bridge in fuel plus then the cost of the bridge.

Ron


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Rosbotham said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > The actual weight of the axles added together should be the same as the actual gross weight.
> ...


Thanks,
You have just help me make my mind up and get it weighed again, as I don't really want to change the plated rate as I may well be selling the vehicle this season.

Ron


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chausson said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Chausson said:
> ...


Hi Ron, our previous Hymer Tramp came out of the factory as a 3900kg van, but it was registered by the first owner at 3500kg.
We decided to uprate it and managed to get it up to 4100kg using SV Tech. 
It was only a paper exercise for us and just as easy to get that little bit more.
I can recommend SV Tech, as they do know their job and DVLA know their reputation.
It took about 3 months for us as DVLA lost the documents.
If you are keeping your van, I would go ahead and do it.
Good Luck!

edit.
Just seen your last post about selling. I would not go through the hassle!


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Spiritofherald said:


> I'm no expert on van weights but something doesn't look right. You say the vehicle plate states ' front axle 1750 rear axle 2240' and that is below the measurments taken at the weighbridge so your van should easily be within the designed limit. Where did you get the figure 3.5t max from?


I got the 3.5 from the V5.

Ron


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

The V5 may be wrong particularly if the van's weight was uprated. Find the plate(s) and see what it / they say.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

peribro said:


> The V5 may be wrong particularly if the van's weight was uprated. Find the plate(s) and see what it / they say.


I shall do that but tomorrow and then I shall come back and report, thanks for the input.

Ron


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

It can be plated at 3800 kg

http://www.hymerclubitalia.it/catal...661005-HYMER_integrierte_2006_italienisch.pdf

Page 57

tony


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi
Thanks to all of you who responded it was very kind of you.
I have since checked again the plate under the bonnet that says 3.8,on the side of hymers theres another plate which list all the details of the van, this says its 3.5, the V5 says 3.5. 

So it would seem that I am running over loaded but when I get the chance I shall weigh the van again and if needs be I shall drop all of the water and remove the tow bar that should give me enough room to play with and be able to carry some food, as for clothes we can always smell with the same clothes we start off with, so stay down wind of us if you happen to park next to us :lol: we are off to spain first week of april you haf been warned.


Ron


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I would call SV Tech with a view to getting them to increase the weight to 3,800, which it would seem it once was.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

If it was 3.8 , and you talk to sv, you'll probably find they''ll increase it to 3950 

tony


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: Weights*



kenthepub said:


> Good afternoon Ron
> 
> From your post the weights don,t look right the front and rear axle weights should add up to the gross give or take 10 or 20 kilos.
> 
> Regards Ken


This is just not true. All vehicles have a front axle load + rear axle load greater than the maximum allowable load. This is to allow for variation of weight distribution from back to front.

Just look at the plate on your vehicle.

It's obvious from many answers that many owners have never even considered the losing of their van let alone had it weighed to check the legality and safety.

It's no wonder that weight checks bring up such a large number of overweight vehicles.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

Spiritofherald said:


> I'm no expert on van weights but something doesn't look right. You say the vehicle plate states ' front axle 1750 rear axle 2240' and that is below the measurments taken at the weighbridge so your van should easily be within the designed limit. Where did you get the figure 3.5t max from?


From then plate usually under the bonnet - all vehicles have one why not try finding yours.

You will see that the total axle load *ALWAYS* exceeds the maximum permissible load

ALWAYS!!!!!!!!


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

Grath said:


> The actual weight of the axles added together should be the same as the actual gross weight.


NO NO NO NO NO

The total axle loading is usually higher to allow weight to be carried more to the front or to the back.

You must not exceed the maximum weight of 3500 kg nor must you exceed the weight on either of the two axles.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

oldun said:


> You will see that the total axle load *ALWAYS* exceeds the maximum permissible load
> 
> ALWAYS!!!!!!!!


Very good practice but not ALWAYS as SVtech were willing to upgrade my last MH to 3850kg MGW with no increase to the axles limits of 1850kg and 2000kg .


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Surely the plating of the vehicle determines the maximum the vehicle can transmit onto the road irrespective of the combined axle weight limits.

for revenue purposes your plating has been set at 3.5T
Who did it does not matter. You are therefore limited to that total as well as the individual axle limits, although they are obviously rated higher because it has been downplated.

Unless you replate higher and via the dvla is would seem that you will be illegal not just in this country either but everywhere you drive.

From what you have said no clothes or food on board yet, you need to do this soon, .

Water is heavy 100L = 100Kg but you do not have that margin.

If the plate on the vehicle has the higher figure ie 3850 it is a DVLA paper exercise. You can also change it back to 3.5T laterif you want.

Ian


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Dont forget there SHOULD be two plates on this vehicle.

1. The manufacturers plate (Mercedes) which should be under the bonnet somewhere. It will have Mercedes stamped onto it somewhere 
2. The Convertors (Hymer) Plate which is USUALLY affixed to the external part of the bodywork near the habitation door. This is usually a self adhesive type plate.

The max Gross weight shown on any of the plates will be LESS than the sum of the two seperate axle weights as has been said, to allow for variations in loading. 

NONE of the weights can be exceeded !! so even if the max gross weight has NOT been reached it is more than possible to overload an individual axle by poor loading 

By the sounds of it this vehicle was DOWNplated by the original purchaser (probably for driving licence restrictions) However any drop in gross weight has to come off the payload which is why you are having problems staying under 3500Kg.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mr Plodd

Your, or anyone else's, advice please.

Assuming a vehicle has been up-plated/down-plated from the original manufacturer's weight ( and plate which is usually the alloy one riveted to the cross member or the like).

What does the law say about subsequent plating?

Is it satisfactory to stick a converters plate in the footwell or elsewhere and refer the authorities to that one? Keeping the original in place?

Does on have to remove or replace the original alloy plate under the bonnet? If so who is authorised to make a new plate? is the production of such plates controlled like number plates?

While we are about it what is the MAM of a vehicle which does not have an entry on the V5C in Section F.1 ( Which in my V5C is entitled 'Max. permissible mass (exc. m/c)' [sic]

As I understand it the entry on the UK V5C- para [Y] 'Revenue weight' would not be recognised internationally. If that is correct, I have no MAM on my V5C.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

My understanding is that the original must stay in place and that any subsequent plates should be as close as possible to them, Alan.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Alan is spot on !!! the original(s) must remain AND BE VISIBLE !!

The production of a plate is a tightly controlled process. the convertor (Hymer) or an other "Authorised" person ( SVTech are the only ones I am aware of) can produce a plate.

My previous Autotrail had been uprated and in addition to the New (SVTech) plate I also had a certificate stating that the vehicle had been uprated to (details of upgrades) by them.

My current Autotrail does NOT have a convertors plate, just the original Fiat one (it seems fairly common that Autotrail "forget" to affix one) 

If you ring SVTech they are VERY helpful and knowledgable people.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Below is what a Sv Tech plate looks like. This is the paper version of the plate which is a sticker. 
SV tech recommend fitting alongside the original plate or on the door pillar.
We had a rear axle uprate of 100kg and the new maximum gross weight was only 50kg below the combination of adding the front and rear axle.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Mr Plodd and Alan

Thanks, so we think we know (Alan says 'I understand) what the authorities (Police, VOSA ) in UK will look for.

But what will the authorities take as the 'correct/authorised' weight?

Mr.P

You also stated that VTech gave you a 'certificate'. Is this a legal requirement? My Mh was given a new plastic 'Plate' by Niesmann+Bischoff without any certificate. They were only uprating from an original down-weighting from the design weight.

Is the new plate from N+B legal, since Mr Plodd says only certain organisations are authorised to issue one? Authorised by whom? Do VOSA have the right to authorise a German company?

SCENARIO

I am in a foreign country. The authorities are checking my actual weight against my 'authorised' weight - what is relevant to their enquiries:-

1 V5C - Revenue Weight or blank MAM?

2 Original manufacturer's plated weight (which apparently under UK law may not be removed)?

3 Converter's plate in footwell or elsewhere, which may be the original, or could be a revised one issued later, but without a certificate. Anyway it is on a piece of plastic which could have been knocked up anywhere?

And of course we are in a country which is not linked to the DVLA database.

What do other countries do?

It seems to be a minefield.

Maybe that is why we do not hear of many checks taking place. In which case we are worrying unnecessarily.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If the V5 matches the most recent plate, as it must, you won't have a problem, Alan.


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## cronkle (May 1, 2005)

Officials on the Swiss border looked at the converters plate on my van to establish whether I was under 3.5 tonne for vignette purposes.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi All
Just an update, I have contacted Hymer to uprate back to original weight of 3.8, I also contacted DVLA told them there is plate under bonnet which says 3.8 tonne the V5 says 3.5 tonne which do I comply with, they told me send the V5 back with covering letter, I shall also take a photo of the plate under the bonnet.
They want at least 6 weeks to return the V5,we are off in 7 weeks so have asked if it can be expedited.


Ron


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chausson said:


> Hi All
> Just an update, I have contacted Hymer to uprate back to original weight of 3.8, I also contacted DVLA told them there is plate under bonnet which says 3.8 tonne the V5 says 3.5 tonne which do I comply with, they told me send the V5 back with covering letter, I shall also take a photo of the plate under the bonnet.
> They want at least 6 weeks to return the V5,we are off in 7 weeks so have asked if it can be expedited.
> 
> Ron


Ron, this is cutting it fine as mine took a few months as DVLA usually get something wrong. Even last week again with my Driving Licence, they cocked up  
The good thing is that, if you are going abroad, they can issue temporary registration documents.
If I were you, I would certainly explore this option.
Hope you get on OK, but don't expect everything to go smoothly with DVLA. If it does, you have a result


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Chausson said:


> Hi All
> Just an update, I have contacted Hymer to uprate back to original weight of 3.8, I also contacted DVLA told them there is plate under bonnet which says 3.8 tonne the V5 says 3.5 tonne which do I comply with, they told me send the V5 back with covering letter, I shall also take a photo of the plate under the bonnet.
> They want at least 6 weeks to return the V5,we are off in 7 weeks so have asked if it can be expedited.
> 
> Ron


DVLA and 'expedite'? Can they interpret the word?

Unless you speak to a senior manager, as I did this week and got a result, but had to go through Dft first :wink:

Geoff


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> My current Autotrail does NOT have a convertors plate, just the original Fiat one (it seems fairly common that Autotrail "forget" to affix one)


Neither did mine. I don't think it's that they 'forget', surely if nothing changes they have no need to issue an additional plate?

JohnW


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## philoaks (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: Weights*



oldun said:


> kenthepub said:
> 
> 
> > Good afternoon Ron
> ...


Oldun, I think you have misread this post. I think Ken was saying that the measured weights (on the weighbridge) of both axles should add up to the gross (measured) weight, give or take. In the case of the OP the front and rear measured weights added together are way off the overall measured weight. Assuming the weighbridge is measuring accurately I can only think that there was a steep ramp either side of the weighbridge and the single axle readings were wrong due to the leverage of the slope.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi Graham
I have not had any dealings other than the non urgent ones but bow to your experience, as you say if they put it right It will save me a couple of hundred pounds.


Geoff
I think you may be right the two don't go together when you hear so many sad stories on here. But I am keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well, as Graham said for me to ask for an emergency set of docs.


Ron


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chausson said:


> Hi Graham
> I have not had any dealings other than the non urgent ones but bow to your experience, as you say if they put it right It will save me a couple of hundred pounds.
> 
> Geoff
> ...


Ron, part of the problem is that they don't want to discuss anything or consider anything could be wrong until you have waited 6 weeks.
On one occasion, regarding my upgrade, I knew something was wrong as the person on the other end of the phone quoted 4001kg gross, when it should have been 4100kg gross. I pointed this out, but still had to wait 6 weeks for it to arrive wrong :x


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Wizzo said:


> Mrplodd said:
> 
> 
> > My current Autotrail does NOT have a convertors plate, just the original Fiat one (it seems fairly common that Autotrail "forget" to affix one)
> ...


A MH is a multi stage build vehicle and the final stage converter must fit their plate. On mine there ar 3 plates. Stage 1 is a Fiat plate which has VIN number etc. but no weights as it was supplied to Rapido as a cab only. The stage 2 plate is an Alko one fitted in conjunction with the chassis and includes weights. the stage 3 plate is Rapido which includes weights exactly the same as the Alko one. 
Both the Alko and Rapido have their EC type approval number stamped on them.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

*Re: Weights*



philoaks said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> > kenthepub said:
> ...


Funny you should say this as there was a steep ramp to the bridge when weighing the front axle the rear was all flat, also the guy did not have a clue he said this is the first time he has done this.
Thing is now though I hope to either get it uprated by hymer or the dvla to change the V5.

Ron


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Incidentally, I used to take new proto type semi trailers to the weigh bridge and do split weight's. Sometimes individual axles or sometimes even the legs at the front.
We always found split weights were reasonably accurate.


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Grath said:


> Chausson said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Graham
> ...


Graham you have to understand the dvla DO NOT make mistakes :lol:


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Chausson said:


> Grath said:
> 
> 
> > Chausson said:
> ...


I nearly choked on y Rioja  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Grath said:


> Incidentally, I used to take new proto type semi trailers to the weigh bridge and do split weight's. Sometimes individual axles or sometimes even the legs at the front.
> We always found split weights were reasonably accurate.


We sometimes weighed our vehicles tractor then trailer while hooked up, the company would never allow us to just weigh the trailer.


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I have been known to take the same trailer to the weigh bridge about 6 times. This has been on a weight critical trailer when they have been trying to get the weight down to a minimum.
Particularly beer trailers.
Once they have the weight of one, the rest of the batch don't get weighed, but they do keep to a strict build.
Then they end up cracking as they are not strong enough


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi Folks 

I would like to thank all of you that have responded it has for certain helped me to get things sorted and to make my mind up, I was going to sell the van but if I am going to have to spend the money I shall keep the van not only that what would I do without it.
THANKS GUYS.

Ron.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

*Re: Weights*



philoaks said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> > kenthepub said:
> ...


I agree with Phil that the combined measured axle weights should equal the gross measured weight.

Apart from discrepancies in the scales themselves the only thing that can give a misleading single axle weight is putting the brakes on and winding the suspension up.

A lot of weigh bridges are geared up to give only two weighings per visit and those are for a full vehicle coming in or out and then the empty vehicle going the other way. (they simply want to know the weight of the contents of the lorry). 
The weight of a single axle is not something that they would normally do.


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