# The Caravan Club: Cancel our New Year Booking - Plans ruined



## Ian_n_Suzy

THE *CARAVAN* CLUB: Cancel our NEW YEAR Booking - PLANS RUINED

Hi,

We fancied doing something different to celebrate this coming New Year and visiting London came out on top as the favourite destination. As any of you with a child with special needs (Aspergers Syndrome in our Sons case) will no doubt know, planning is paramount. He needs to know everything in advance, as otherwise he gets very stressed.

At the time of booking (early Jan 2013), we were not members of The Caravan Club, and seeing as 2 other families wanted to come along as well (only 1 of them being members), it took quite a bit of arranging, as we didn't need to join the Club if there was no availability.

Anyway, I rang the Club and they confirmed availability, so ourselves and our friends both joined the Club and immediately booked the site (Crystal Palace). We notified our friends whom were already members and they then booked their place also.

Lots of planning (and expense) has since been undertaken as we wanted to make it something special (Theatre outing to watch Les Miserables and rides on the London Eye). We even went to the trouble of getting two Caravan Club Credit Cards that we have been using extensively so as to help via the Night Out Voucher Scheme as these intended to be used for this outing.

This morning a letter lands on our doorstep from The Caravan Club telling us that our booking has now been cancelled, stating that they are unable to accommodate an awning as the reason (even though we don't use an awning, it was the booking system that allocated this). To add insult to injury, one of the party has not had their booking cancelled (they booked after ourselves, so I am unsure if the names are just picked out of a hat).

I have rang them to explain this and up to now all I have had is a "Sorry, there is nothing else I can do" over the telephone, but nothing else. They even have the audacity to say "There is the possibility that there will be cancellations on this site throughout the course of the season, and availability may appear on the website". So they expect ourselves, after THEY cancel OUR booking, to have to look day in day out for the slight possibility of availability.

I intimated when I rang them if it was possibly due to our unit being a Motorhome, rather than a Caravan, but she vehemently denied this!!!

I am now a member of a Club that I feel I have no need nor desire to be a member of, their whole system appears mightily flawed to me.


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## thegamwellsmythes

Sorry to hear about this.

Polite but firm email time.


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## Jamsieboy

Hi
The CC have recently decided that on certain sites they need to reduce the number of "awning pitches" to maintain the required space between units. On some sites they have reduced the number of pitches in total.
The whole process has been badly managed and caused a bit of an uproar on the CC's own forum.
Many have been told that despite booking an awning pitch they can no longer use an awning whilst others have simply had the booking cancelled.
This despite the fact the sites have been operating all these pitches for years. It appears someone at the CC has decided that the pitches were not adequately spaced out!!!!
Senior management comment has been a stoney silence!!!
Very bad PR and it appears badly managed. All could and should have been done prior to accepting any bookings for the 2013 year.


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## Zebedee

Don't get snotty or they will dig their heels in! :roll: 

I suspect it's the new, absolutely rigid "awning" rule that has caught you out. I have some sympathy with them in these days of pathetic knee jerk litigation. Say someone's unit started a fire which spread to another van, if the first one was on a pitch that was 10cm too narrow (according to the H&S regulations) the chances are the CC would be sued for tens of thousands.

I would suggest that you phone again, explain that an "awning" pitch was booked in error, then ask if you can cancel and re-book a non-awning pitch. That should get over any (real or contrived) difficulties with the computerised system, and in any case it would make it very difficult for them to blame the computer . . . which is too often a convenient excuse for being bone idle.

Give it a try. You will almost certainly get a different operator, so don't mention their prejudice against motorhomes - even if you think it exists. :wink: 

Hope this helps

Dave 


Edit - typo again!!


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## Penquin

I would suggest that you list all of your expenses so far and send them in a letter stating that is the minimum amount that you will be pursuing through the small claims court as they have cancelled an existing booking without fair reason.

The threat of legal action may well be enough and I would also insist on cancelling the membership with a full refund and the credit card as this is no longer required.

The threat of such adverse publicity as the small claims court may well be enough.

Dave


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## Jamsieboy

Penguin and Zebedee

I think the CC has reduced the number of pitches on this site. Had they just removed the awning option they would have advised Ian an Suzy that they could not use an awning but kept the booking.

Although they require to meet H&S requirements the recent changes by the CC have come out the blue as there are no new H&S requirements. Seems the CC were perhaps not meeting old regs!!!!!

In any event they have made a pigs ear of managing the changes.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Zebedee said:


> Don't get snotty or they will dig their heels in! :roll:
> 
> I suspect it's the new, absolutely rigid "awning" rule that has caught you out. I have some sympathy with them in these days of pathetic knee jerk litigation. Say someone's unit started a fire which spread to another van, if the first one was on a pitch that was 10cm too narrow (according to the H&S regulations) the chances are the CC would be sued for tens of thousands.
> 
> I would suggest that you phone again, explain that an "awning" pitch was booked in error, then ask if you can cancel and re-book a non-awning pitch. That should get over any (real or contrived) difficulties with the computerised system, and in any case it would make it very difficult for them to blame the computer . . . which is too often a convenient excuse for being bone idle.
> 
> Give it a try. You will almost certainly get a different operator, so don't mention their prejudice against motorhomes - even if you think it exists. :wink:
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Dave
> 
> Edit - typo again!!


Hi,

I have already rang them and explained we don't need an awning (I was nice as pie, I only mentioned the Caravan comment through frustration at the end of the conversation).

I am awaiting a call back from a manager (who was in a meeting when I called earlier).

All comments taken on board, and I have to say I am more than just a bit disappointed about this whole fiasco, it has ruined so many plans for 10 people (our party).


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## sallytrafic

We have assessed some CC sites this year for Alan Rogers and I can confirm they have remeasured some sites and reduced the number of pitches. The official reason given was that it was to accommodate larger units but I can see why that would also result in them being moved further apart. 

Not withstanding it is appalling customer service.


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## Zebedee

Jamsieboy said:


> In any event they have made a pigs ear of managing the changes.


They are far better at managing the cost of a pitch Jamesie!!!!  

Just been to Pembrey and enjoyed every minute, with a bunch of really friendly and helpful wardens - no complaints at all about them or the site itself.

But £19.90 per night for an ordinary pitch, outside the high season!!! 8O

I know it's a bit of a non-sequitur in this case, but for top prices you rather expect top service. No wonder Ian and Suzy are a bit miffed.

Dave


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## Jamsieboy

Sallytraffic

I think the "official" reason stated to allow larger units is a bit wide of the mark :wink: 

This would possibly required an extension in terms of length more than width.

It is also a more palatable statement than saying that the pitches may have been too close :wink: :wink: 

In any event any such action could and should have been taken before the start of the season or minimally existing bookings honoured. It seems that at HQ the CC has little understanding of customer service.


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## selstrom

The CC web site shows pitches available every day in December up to & including Sat 28/12/13.


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## Zebedee

selstrom said:


> The CC web site shows pitches available every day in December up to & including Sat 28/12/13.


So cancelling and re-booking has to be an option.

So how can they claim they were unable to help Ian and Suzy?

I suspect the operator I&S spoke to was more unwilling than unable! You do get 'em, and far too often when they have the protection of a long telephone line between you and them.

*Ian & Suzy* - You need lessons from our dog. :lol: :lol: If she smells a rat in the woodpile she will spend all day, every day for a week trying to get at it . . . but she is a terrier!!!

Keep at them - you will succeed. :wink:

Dave


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

It's for 30/12 onwards (New Year)


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## Stanner

Just a thought BUT are the ones who haven't been cancelled the pre-existing members (i.e. not just joined to book) and are they by any chance in a caravan?


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Stanner said:


> Just a thought BUT are the ones who haven't been cancelled the pre-existing members (i.e. not just joined to book) and are they by any chance in a caravan?


Hi,

They are Motorhomers, but they was indeed the pre-existing members.


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## Glandwr

Are you sure that you met LEZ standards? Crystal Palace is in it. Don't wont to be a Jonah but ...........  

Dick


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## Stanner

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought BUT are the ones who haven't been cancelled the pre-existing members (i.e. not just joined to book) and are they by any chance in a caravan?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> They are Motorhomers, but they was indeed the pre-existing members.
Click to expand...

Well there I think is 50% or your answer.

They've had to disappoint people and you are/were............

Last in first out. :roll:

If there really is no chance of staying, I would be doing as advised earlier - demand your membership fees back and threaten to take them to the small claims court for all your associated wasted costs.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Glandwr said:


> Are you sure that you met LEZ standards? Crystal Palace is in it. Don't wont to be a Jonah but ...........
> 
> Dick


Hi,

AFAIK we are LEZ compliant.


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## cabby

Maybe a registered letter direct to the MD at his home address, also any other directors as possible, would stir the mix a little, but do be firm but very polite.


cabby


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## Ian_n_Suzy

I was promised I`d be called back by a Manager this afternoon. Alas, I have waited in and received no such call. 

They are not doing very well in my humble opinion.


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## Penquin

cabby said:


> Maybe a registered letter direct to the MD at his home address, also any other directors as possible, would stir the mix a little, but do be firm but very polite.
> 
> cabby


Here is a list to start your quest;

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/news-and-events/news-by-email/meet-the-team/

This might help too.....

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00646027

and this is their list of current directors AFAIK;

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00646027/CARAVAN-CLUB-LIMITEDTHE/directors-shareholders#people

it lists the directors and you can check their names, bit no addresses for homes I am afraid..... 

Dave


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## Glen432

Hi 

Ask to speak to the Regional Officer for the South East and she will put you in touch with the Regional Manager for that area who is the person you need to talk because he will have the final say.

Phil

P.S By the way you didn't get this info from me


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## delawaredandy

I would put it down to the CC being their usual unhelpful selves, if ever there was a company that the rule book was written for it's them, most of the wardens have their humour chips removed at the training seminars and if they can quote a rule out of their poxy manual I am sure it must give them a st**fy 

They give us all this baloney about spacing and safety and then put site's located in other countries in their so called over sea's site books and you end up in some sh*t hole with about 2 foot between you and the bloke next door, it's about time that they dragged themselves into the 21st century and stop thinking that we all sh*t down holes in the ground and use gas for lighting.

Sorry for the outrage but it has to be said


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## keith_c

Re Dave / Penguin's reply above I'm was just being nosey and having a look and if you click on some of the individuals you get a home address.

I happen to know one of the directors and the address quoted is the correct home address. 

I see the address quoted for Nick Lomas (secretary) is the head office of the CC. I happened to be on the same table as him (and a few of the other directors) at a meal recently. The other directors seemed fine (one has a motorhome!) but Nick Lomas just struck me as a waste of space.

I think you've been treated abominably and wish you the very best of luck in getting this sorted out.


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## Glen432

delawaredandy said:


> I would put it down to the CC being their usual unhelpful selves, if ever there was a company that the rule book was written for it's them, most of the wardens have their humour chips removed at the training seminars and if they can quote a rule out of their poxy manual I am sure it must give them a st**fy
> 
> They give us all this baloney about spacing and safety and then put site's located in other countries in their so called over sea's site books and you end up in some sh*t hole with about 2 foot between you and the bloke next door, it's about time that they dragged themselves into the 21st century and stop thinking that we all sh*t down holes in the ground and use gas for lighting.
> 
> Sorry for the outrage but it has to be said


*Nice, *I wondered what that was in my trousers.

You can't blame the CC for sh*t sites aboard they don't own them the book is only advisory, members like yourself put these recommendations in the over sea's book.

By the way the spacing between pitches comes from the local council fire regulations.

We all like a good rant but at least get your facts right first and if you look at my earlier post I tried to give the OP some advise.

My rant over now

Phil


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## pippin

_we all sh*t down holes in the ground and use gas for lighting._

delawaredandy - don't we?

I must bring our house and MH up to date then!

Incidentally - the subject of spacing of units on sites has been done to death on here, many times!


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## cabby

We all mock and moan about the wardens, but they are the first on the spot when you have trouble and need sensible help.
I suggest that you start typing your letters now.

cabby

ps. I have of course met those wardens who are shall we say regimental, but they were also eager to help when it was needed.


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## HermanHymer

Don't get mad, get even! As publicly as possible!

Sorry, Suzy!


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## Penquin

cabby said:


> We all mock and moan about the wardens, but they are the first on the spot when you have trouble and need sensible help.
> I suggest that you start typing your letters now.
> 
> cabby
> 
> ps. I have of course met those wardens who are shall we say regimental, but they were also eager to help when it was needed.


but the wardens are totally innocent in this case - it is "the system" and the way that it operates that has caused this monumental muck up....

Dave


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## delawaredandy

I get the impression Glen432 that the only stiffy you probably get is when you are reading the Caravan Club rules book, and probably section 2 subsection 3.12 chapter 3 paragraph 4 I think that cover the bit about how to wind up a hose, and as for wardens helping, other than closing a block of toilets down for 2 hours to clean 1 cubicle and a shower that's about all they do, oh yes and moan that you have not parked your unit exactly 115.24 degrees NNE of the north pole at a azimuth of 32.45 degrees from the earths core!!! :? 

I am not having a dig at just the wardens but the whole club from the chairman to the menials pushing pens around a piece of paper, they are a relic left over from the days of the gentleman's smoking club in other words if you have not got a Range Rover HSE 6VTD-CDI-X-4 dragging a Bailey 647/SLC-736X4/2-44/365 Twin axle in white you ain't welcome. :roll: 

And regarding Shi*ing down holes I don't know what toilet systems Hymers are fitting in their vans today but my van has a nice Thetford toilet fitted, but the Germans who knows could be a old china pot you stick under the bed :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cabby

I am getting a distinct impression that you are not that keen on the CC, for some reason.Would you care to enlighten us.

cabby


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## Zebedee

Don't hold back Dandy - I get the feeling you are a bit miffed, so say what's on your mind. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Glandwr

Only stayed in a CC site once, that that was dec 2011 during the biggest snow London and the SE had seen for decades. We were desperate, buses and car were abandoned all over the approaches to South London. We turned up without reservation. They were full (no one wanted to leave and half of site was inaccessible), but they let us in and several after us. We camped on roadways, real blitz spirit.

The wardens were magnificent. 

Dick


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## Glen432

delawaredandy said:


> I get the impression Glen432 that the only stiffy you probably get is when you are reading the Caravan Club rules book, and probably section 2 subsection 3.12 chapter 3 paragraph 4 I think that cover the bit about how to wind up a hose, and as for wardens helping, other than closing a block of toilets down for 2 hours to clean 1 cubicle and a shower that's about all they do, oh yes and moan that you have not parked your unit exactly 115.24 degrees NNE of the north pole at a azimuth of 32.45 degrees from the earths core!!! :?
> 
> I am not having a dig at just the wardens but the whole club from the chairman to the menials pushing pens around a piece of paper, they are a relic left over from the days of the gentleman's smoking club in other words if you have not got a Range Rover HSE 6VTD-CDI-X-4 dragging a Bailey 647/SLC-736X4/2-44/365 Twin axle in white you ain't welcome. :roll:
> 
> And regarding Shi*ing down holes I don't know what toilet systems Hymers are fitting in their vans today but my van has a nice Thetford toilet fitted, but the Germans who knows could be a old china pot you stick under the bed :lol: :lol: :lol:


*
You really are a piece of work aren't you:* first of all you hijack this thread with all your vitriol and then make a personnel attack on me.

Well my little Cyber Warrior if you can't bring anything intelligent to this thread it must be your bedtime because its school in the morning so run along now and be a good boy tomorrow for mummy. 
You must be of school age because if you knew me you wouldn't say that to my face I can assure you. Don't bother replying with more of the same childish rubbish i'm getting my coat and i'm out of here.

Phil 
see ive put my name


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## Jamsieboy

Glen 432 - your last post is spot on.
Delawaredandy - no need for such personal attack on Glen432.

Glen432 I understand that local authority rules need to be obeyed but these are not new rules hence my criticism of how the CC have managed the whole matter.

On the whole the CC site staff are excellent with a few exceptions. Not so sure about HQ tho :wink:


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## delawaredandy

"You must be of school age because if you knew me you wouldn't say that to my face I can assure you."

Verbal threats nice !! I can assure you I would end of story.


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## Penquin

delawaredandy said:


> "You must be of school age because if you knew me you wouldn't say that to my face I can assure you."
> 
> Verbal threats nice !! I can assure you I would end of story.


You appear to be showing a considerable amount of annoyance at the supposed workings of many aspects of the CC and have been asked several times if you wold like to explain and clarify.

You do not seem to have grasped that opportunity to explain why you have such negative feelings towards an organisation that many people have been part of for many years (in our case more than 30). We no longer use the facilities (that is hardly a surprise :lol: ) and have been aware of many problems reported by many other people which the CC do not seem to want to recognise or rectify.

Perhaps you could take the time to explain your dealings with this organisation, whether you are a member and why you have such a negative viewpoint.

Please do not simply ignore this polite request since doing so will lead to further comments from others trying to understand your point of view.

*Note* I am not belittling your opinions in any way, simply trying to understand how they have been formed, there is no animosity or personal criticism in this post.

Dave :?


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## delawaredandy

Sorry Penguin  

I cant answer to many questions now as I have to run to catch my bus for school :lol: :lol: 

Mark


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## barryd

Delawarebendy is CEO of the C&CC


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## Penquin

delawaredandy said:


> Sorry Penguin
> 
> I cant answer to many questions now as I have to run to catch my bus for school :lol: :lol:
> 
> Mark


With a response like that you cannot be surprised if antagonism comes your way, I asked a perfectly reasonable question - you did not have to respond at all but chose to respond in a facetious manner.

Dave


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Well I still haven't heard back from them, so I am just about to ring them again.


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## suedew

Do hope you get it all sorted out soon and to your satisfaction. 
Sue


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## uncleswede

*Clubs?*

We've not seen sufficient benefits in joining a MH/caravan Club and this thread ...

.. is just another nail in the coffin, as far as we're concerned

site helper note- post merged into running thread


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## Westkirby01

Please keep us udpdated on your plight.


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## Jamsieboy

Sorry to dampen your expectation Ian an Suzy but I was supposed to get a reply to my query with the CC over a site complaint. Regional Manager will respond to your complaint I was told - over two months now and still waiting


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## VanFlair

Hi uncleswede

Try reading this one as well.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-142464-caravan-clubs.html

Martin


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

I've just rang them myself. In fairness, re my above post, they have tried to get in touch, but our number will not accept withheld calls (though personally I would have found a way to call on a line that did not withhold, knowing this was the case).

The are going to monitor for a cancellation to try and re-instate our booking, but they can't promise anything, and we have no idea re the time-scale for this.

I did mention that I will have to take it to the small claims court for my losses, if the situation couldn't be resolved, and in all honesty the lady I spoke to didn't seem too perturbed by this. Which makes me wonder if this is a common occurrence.

For now, I am going to give them some time to try and resolve it, but at some point I will need to go the legal route.

I will update accordingly. 


THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT.


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## goldi

Afternoon all,


Over 3000 views of this posting, not good PR for CC.



norm


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## Jamsieboy

I rather suspect the CC will not be too bothered by poor PR.
Membership high, many popular sites fully booked every weekend and some fully booked most of the high season.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Jamsieboy said:


> I rather suspect the CC will not be too bothered by poor PR.
> Membership high, many popular sites fully booked every weekend and some fully booked most of the high season.


Hi,

The problem I have with their system is the lack of a deposit for bookings.

Even though we are obviously, and very genuinely in dire need of the pitches we booked for next New Year. Ours have been cancelled, yet I would suspect as the date draws closer a number of the bookings made (without deposit) will decide against going as they were never 100% committed in the first place.

It is a very flawed system IMHO.


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## Penquin

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just rang them myself. In fairness, re my above post, they have tried to get in touch, but our number will not accept withheld calls (though personally I would have found a way to call on a line that did not withhold, knowing this was the case).
> 
> The are going to monitor for a cancellation to try and re-instate our booking, but they can't promise anything, and we have no idea re the time-scale for this.
> 
> I did mention that I will have to take it to the small claims court for my losses, if the situation couldn't be resolved, and in all honesty the lady I spoke to didn't seem too perturbed by this. Which makes me wonder if this is a common occurrence.
> 
> For now, I am going to give them some time to try and resolve it, but at some point I will need to go the legal route.
> 
> I will update accordingly.
> 
> THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT.


Send them a "letter before action" letter and specify that is the route you will be taking unless it is resolved to your satisfaction within a specified time period e.g. 28 days from receipt - send it by recorded delivery so that they know you are serious about what route you will take.

http://tinyurl.com/oy9t34a

and this is an example of such a letter (in this case relating to the provision of goods), but you could easily amend it to suit your purpose.

http://tinyurl.com/plz3265

If they receive it in writing it cannot be ignored or shrugged off, a verbal comment can be ignored as there is no record of them having received it.

It will only cost you the price of a stamp and recorded delivery fee but really clarifies the mind of the person opening it.....

They would have no choice other than to escalate it upwards as a serious concern of liability as well as being a PR disaster.

Dave


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## Westkirby01

If you do not get satisfaction. Let us all know, and then why not send them an emal with a contact to this thread. 

Regards


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## aldra

I have the same problem

I would be more than happy to pay a deposit, and I'm sure if people had to they would not fail to either cancel or turn up

however

I really hope you manage to sort it and have a lovely holiday

delawaredandy back off

This is not a personal vendetta

But about a MHF member whose holiday is on the verge of collapse

More importantly so is her sons and he needs it not to be

aldra


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## simandme

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> The problem I have with their system is the lack of a deposit for bookings.
> 
> It is a very flawed system IMHO.


I agree with you - deposits should be used.

Whilst I sympathise with you trying to pursue this, I wouldn't leave it past August to organise a new trip. Particularly if your child likes to know details. London is a hard place to organise a place to stay, so please let the forum know if you need a hand organising a new trip - hopefully we can come up with some good ideas.

Best of luck

Simone


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## peedee

I would read their booking terms and conditions before doing anything further. I would like to bet there is a get out clause in there for them?

It is a disgraceful situation and the Club has still not given an adequate explanation as to why they have taken this action in the season. It is not as though the health and safety spacing of pitches has suddenly been altered!

peedee


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## Annsman

I don't work for them, but I know someone who is an assistant warden for them. They altered their pitching policy at the begining of this year. They now have the pitch peg in the centre of the pitch and you line up that with the centre of your van, instead of the rear off side corner as previously done. They had a big announcement in their magazine and on their own forum pages. It was as a result of a policy to make sure all their sites had the same pitching policy, no matter what the pitch size. It was discussed and approved by the membership at an AGM, I believe.

Consequently everyone moved over a couple of metres and it left some pitches with insufficient space between them. Some pitches went and sites had to cancel some bookings. My mate has had untold problems with some people not being informed, or claiming they hadn't, and turning up on site, with the resulting arguments having to be sorted by the staff. He works at a very busy site in the SW and some people have driven for hundreds of miles and had no pitch when they got there!

They have a rule that any bookings can be subject to "operational changes" and where possible a re-booking will occur, or the booking cancelled. It's in their rule book. Both clubs have this btw, not just the CC. It allows the site staff to make adjustments on the day for weather or pitches becoming unusable.

I doubt if you'll get anywhere with sueing them but good luck.

Have you tried the C&CC. They've got a couple of sites around London.

if you want them to respond try posting the tale on their forum pages on the club website. They do monitor it and might be willing to add something on there, but I doubt it!


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## Dill

The CC is not a club it's a business at the end of the day. I found that out many years ago when we was tugging. We booked a ferry crossing to France and also booked a recommend site from there oversees mag. When we got there the pitch was too small for the caravan and awning and had to park the car elswhere.. 

We was then given another pitch much larger but had 8 inches high tree stumps all over it which was not fit for purpose. As all other pitches where taken I had to ring the CC to be told theres nothing they can do. 

After taking measurments and photo's of the pitches offered we had no alternative but to leave the site to find another but had to pay again.

I admit we was very green when it came to France I think it was only our second visit to the country. Being a CC club member I thought at least we would have a little club backing (none at all)

The CC had a couldn't care less attitude, they didn't even speak the the site owners on our behalf.

To cut a long storey when we returned home I ended up taking them to the small claims court and won all our costs back. 

Still leaves a bitter taste though. The whole fiasco was put on the UK Campsites forum if intersested I will find the link.

Hope you get this sorted to your satisfaction.

Best Regards

Dill


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## H1-GBV

Ian-n-Suzy: I hope all goes well with your holiday booking. I imagine London sites at New Year will be popular, because of the fireworks and other celebrations. I would certainly explore other possibilities such as Abbey Woods or Common Woods at Welwyn (a fairly easy, if more expensive, train trip).

Whether you could persuade CC (via small claims court or just moral pressure) to pay all of your other costs would be beyond my ken, but I would certainly follow the advice of getting it started sooner rather than later: it may end up being cheaper to book a hotel rather than lose all of the subsidiary expenses. Good luck.

I have to say that CC have always proved satisfactory to me, although 2 weeks ago I tried to find a rally/holiday in NE England. However, when I searched by "location" the whole listing was abominable: everything was, presumably, in the order that it had been posted and searching required reading through the whole list. I went "contact me" and got an operative, who sent me a link to exactly the same page I had been using. She could not appreciate that searching a non-alphabetical list was unacceptable. Eventually she sent me links to "every rally in NE England for the time you require" - the first 4 spots included good spots such as Newquay, Plymouth, Arundel!  

I told her she was useless and gave exceedingly bad feedback afterwards. Last week I went "search by location" and all the events were alphabetical! (although there were "cambs", "cambridge" and "cambridgeshire", but I could cope with that).

So somewhere in that organisatioin there lurks at least one listening person and some willingness to make changes. Once again: good luck - Gordon


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hi,

Just a quick, and hopefully final update re this matter.

I have kept ringing the Caravan Club weekly for updates, and yesterday they got back to me to say that they could find 3 pitches for our party at the Abbey Wood Site. We have accepted these pitches so our plans are still in tact.

THANKS to you ALL for your earlier posts.


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## bognormike

excellent news - thanks for reporting back


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## Nodge

Great news, glad you got it sorted.

I am sure the threat of legal action focused their minds somewhat. it's a great tool for the consumer to have in their armoury. Quite often the goliath will reconsider a stance just on the threat of small claims action being filed against them, because no matter how trivial or how right they believe they are, any action bought against them has to be defended or they lose by default. The resources needed to defend these cases generally far exceeds most initial claims.

I wish more people used it as a method of getting fair redress, if they did we wouldn't get the generally poor service we do from larger companies and organization.


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## BrianJP

I'm still going to cancel my membership renewal this year though. I thought they were supposed to be club owned by and working for the members. Doesn't seem to have been much of that going on in this case.


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## Suzysetter

Oh thank goodness, what a relief for you all. 
Hope you have a super New Year
Sue


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## Penquin

I am very pleased that they have sorted it out, but very sad that they had to ......

and that they were not keen to sort the problems immediately with a "Whoops we are sorry for this but it was due to......" type apology.

As has been said, the CC is no longer a Club for the benefit of it's members but a Limited Company trading to generate a profit, that theoretically is fed back into the facilities for the benefit of the members... but it is impossible to quantify whether that happens or not......

The most important thing is that they have now done an about face - it will be interesting to see whether that is due them NOT activating the pitch changes that have been mentioned......

Dave


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## camper69

Penquin said:


> As has been said, the CC is no longer a Club for the benefit of it's members but a Limited Company trading to generate a profit, that theoretically is fed back into the facilities for the benefit of the members... but it is impossible to quantify whether that happens or not......
> 
> Dave


Well they do publish their accounts here. 2011 is the latest ones.

Derek


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## Annsman

The reality is both clubs need to run as a commercial company these days. I bet if you looked carefully at either set of accounts the site side of the business isn't much more of a profit maker, if at all, compared to the insurance, ferry bookings and holiday side of things.

The sites are kept open all weathers and last year both clubs lost around 3 million each on lost bookings because of the weather. The membership don't turn out as much during these wet spells but the sites still need to be kept staffed, cleaned, facilities running and maintained. They have to be aware of the commercial sites operating in the same market and have to attract customers from them. The membership might like cheap rates, discount pitch prices for age concessions etc but it doen't bring in revenue. It's families with a van full of screaming potential terrorists in the high season that get the accountants cheering. Retired and semi retired couples turning out in Spring and Autumn are just something to be tolerated inbetween school holidays!

Same with Christmas opening. I can imagine sites in London and Edinburgh might be booked up but how many others run at much more than 50% capacity?

We live in a commercial, profit run world in every business these days where "service" and "customer satifaction" are only good if they increase the bottom line. We can't seriously expect the camping clubs to be any different, can we?


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## Gary1944

delawaredandy said:


> I would put it down to the CC being their usual unhelpful selves, if ever there was a company that the rule book was written for it's them, most of the wardens have their humour chips removed at the training seminars and if they can quote a rule out of their poxy manual I am sure it must give them a st**fy
> 
> They give us all this baloney about spacing and safety and then put site's located in other countries in their so called over sea's site books and you end up in some sh*t hole with about 2 foot between you and the bloke next door, it's about time that they dragged themselves into the 21st century and stop thinking that we all sh*t down holes in the ground and use gas for lighting.
> 
> Sorry for the outrage but it has to be said


Come on! Enough's enough! Have you really managed to visit all 200 sites and checked out the Wardens. What right have you to generalise about hard working people who do their best to follow the CC rules. Yes they are their rules, and as a Warden you flout them at your peril.

How do I know all this. I was a Warden for 11 years.

I do agree that the CC has got it seriously wrong in this instance. I would hope that if the OP had contacted the site direct with the problem they would have been keen to help. They are probably distraught with this change of rules which they have no control over.

I hope it works out for them. The advice to keep checking on line, especially before the booking service opens each day is good. You get first choice if the overnight cancellations.

Gary.


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## oldtart

Yes, Gary , I agree with you. 

Dave had a hip replacement in November and we went off to Scotland, Melrose and Edinburgh as soon as he got the all clear to drive the camper. On both sites, the temporary wardens went out of their way to help and make things as easy as possible for him, especially with the weather conditions being so bad.

I can honestly say that we have never had cause to complain about wardens and we have stayed on quite a few sites. 

Like you, I do hope things work out for the OP. the problem is with the CC, who I think got it very wrong, not the wardens.

There is another thread on the site, Where have they all gone. Although there are many suggestions on the post as to the reason for this, I feel that the nature of your comments, Delawaredandy are out of order and do not encourage people to contribute to the site. 

Val


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## sallytrafic

The attention of the last two posters is drawn to the previous page where you will see it is sorted. 

Always better to read before commenting


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## Gary1944

sallytrafic said:


> The attention of the last two posters is drawn to the previous page where you will see it is sorted.
> 
> Always better to read before commenting


You are quite right, but the comments so annoyed me that I only read the outcome after the post. Pleased they found a solution, and pleased I got it off my chest. Anyway, does it really matter. Not enough to need correcting I think!

Gary.


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## oldtart

Frank - I had read all the postings before writing my post!

But, like Gary, I felt I had to comment on our positive dealings with the CC wardens after what had been written about them.

I was aware that the OP were using another CC site and I hoped that the new arrangements would work out for them

I honestly don't think your comment was warranted. After this, I shall certainly think twice before making another posting on the site. I have always tried to be helpful and constructive in my postings. I have learnt so much from the advice I have received and from the postings from others on so many topics.

Val


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## Penquin

Val,

please ignore such things - they are really not worth getting worked up about as such a comment was {offtopic} in my opinion.

Everyone has the right to add a comment - few threads stay on the original topic and that is the norm, but does it matter?

IMO no it does not - the forum is simply a venue where we can all express what we wish to - Frank wished to express that, so be it, it is his right to do so, in the same way that I can respond here as long as it does not break the forum rules that is perfectly OK.

For the record, I have yet to come across any CC warden who has NOT been polite and helpful - many of them have gone out of their way to do so. It is possible, of course, that the response encountered reflects the approach made - we have always tried hard to be polite and listen to what they are saying.

My problem is NOT with the wardens but the system that operates the Club - it appears not to listen to reasonable points and has an agenda which does not seem to reflect the wishes of all of the members - although such things are difficult.

If there is pressure on some sites, why allow "seasonal pitches" or even storage? The space taken up by such things could be available for touring members...,... but financial considerations rule the day...... even if it depresses the availability for "normal" users.......

But that is the system and certainly NOT the wardens that run the sites, the wardens do a difficult job well IMO.

Dave


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## oldtart

Thank you, Dave. I appreciate your reply.

Val


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