# how do you do it?



## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Don't want to go in to it because I'm just too angry right now but I always seem to get 'ripped off'. GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

Me and hubby are nice, hard working, honest people, who always pay our bills on time, if someone quotes us, we never quibble and are (imho) reasonable citizens who generally try to do the right thing. 

So please can you tell me how to:

Get what you want?
To a good standard?
In good time?
At a good price?

Are we too friendly? Kind, nice???
Are we too easy going? 
Do we have an invisible 'Rip Me Off Now!!!' sign above our heads?
Are we too honest?

I know none of you know us so you can't really comment on this. I suppose I'm trying to cheer myself up (cos many of you often make me smile) but why can't people do what they say they are going to do, to a reasonable standard any more????? (except me of course) 

Please provide case scenarios as this is probably the only way I would understand how to deal with these people...

I don't mind you having a joke at my expense either...why not...they do? 

LOL (you can't say LOL anymore apparently it is uncool BTW)

Debs 8O :x


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

You can't be a saint in a world full of sinners. You have to learn about sinning to protect yourselves.

Look what happened to us......................

Ray.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

It usually 'costs' to be world wise.

tony


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

GEMMY said:


> It usually 'costs' to be world wise.
> 
> tony


But I'm world-weary!! 
and should be world wise, but other people seem to manage it don't they?

and what is wise? is it wise to mistrust everyone? or is it just foolish to trust those who appear to be wise?

aw, now I'm talking rubbish again


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Experience is gained from someone doing the dirty, you learn from it and are prepared next time round. Hopefully it doesn't cost too much to gain the experience.

tony


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

chocolate is the answer

Good night 

Debs


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

That was quick.

Now what you must do is negotiate.
Tell the salesman or whoever, that the price he wants is down to the profit . Does he want to make a smaller profit from you or.... nothing as you will go elsewhere.

Dave p.

Off for another guiness.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

He (she) who shouts loudest ........ comes to mind.

On buying our second motorhome, we explained in detail the horrors of our first purchase, and made it very clear (politely), the experiences of the first purchase will not be tolerated.
This was not from the same dealer, and everything they said they would do was done, and done correctly, first time round. I think the sales manager made sure all was correct before collection, but now sure it would have been anyway.

There are dealers at each end of the good-bad scale, and I think I experienced both ends!


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## trevor007 (Apr 20, 2008)

My advise would be don't change i know exactly how you feel lt seems like you are being shafted but i think we all our it's just some people don't take it to hart as much as you, in my opinion today nearly everybody is ruled by money not decency or customer service and the problem is if your a decent law abiding citizen you don't stand a chance.

I have always given 100% to my customers up until i retired and many of my friends did the same but it doesn't seem to happen much today unfortunately.

I would say the more you worry about it the more it affects you (not them) so just rise above it put it down to experience and just realize they aren't worth it other wise you suffer not them.

Trev


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> That was quick.
> 
> Dave p.
> 
> Off for another guiness.


sorry Dave, I went to bed, I had a bad day!!

Feeling much more positive this morning!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Don't get me started, we used a builder called Tom Walsh, thinking it was a good omen, IT WASN'T :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 

His dad was a roofer with 30 years experience, yeah right, his uncle had to re-do the whole roof again, guess what, it's still not right.

Floor and ceiling in extension of bedroom and lounge did not match the levels of existing rooms.

They say that the cowboys are the nicest ones when they come to do quotes, so now we are very wary.

But we now know a good plumber (gas safe), a sparky, and a plasterer, all capable and not rip off merchants.

We just need a good joiner now.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Hi debs
I think this a very interesting post as me and pauline are the same as you in most respects.

The one think not to do is go into something on a whim and but something especially major purchases without planning.
The truth is that most companies whether they be big or small and even those that purtain to be "honest johns" will still employ tactics to try and make a fast buck..i know i work for one and its a major well known brand in the gardening industry. the tactic is called Marketing and I hate it. Its the ability to convince you that you cant live without someting that you dont really need.

You still have to take an honest approach just like you are doing now. Theres no need to turn into a scammer yourself but knowing the tricks of the trade will put you in good stead.

The things that you can do which dont cost nowt are.

1. Never make a decision on the same day as you see the goods
2. Employ the 5 Ys tactic. This means for every clause, statement, condition etc ask why 5 times.
3. Have a definate budjet and stick to it. Tactics that a sales person would employ to see how ridjid this is is to say " for another £1000 you could have this option with air con solar panel and a so and so....if you then go "hum well i could ask uncle jack to borrow us some money" will tell the salesman that your budjet is not so ridgid as you said it was. 
4. Ask as many questions as you can. Make people work for your hard earned cash. if they are legit it may **** them off a bit but thats business. My 5 best mates are who what where when and why. Geniine people wont take much offence.
5. Ask to see a copy of the warranty agreement before handing over cash. Warranties are often not worth the paper they are written on and full of get out clauses. remember you have rights under the sale of goods act irrespective of the warranty that comes with anything..even if that warranty has expired. 

6. Never have time constaints. dont tell someone you have to get the sale done and dusted as you are going on holiday next week as you can bet your boots that will use this to get more cash out of you by saying. "your new car wont be ready in time for you holiday Mrs jones but i may be able to get the guts in the factory to work weekends but they will want payng for it"..even if thats not true.
Plan ahead

7. Dont fall in love with inanimate objetcs. "Oh george its beautiful - we just have to have it" is music to a saleamans ears.

If in doubt walk away.

Good luck
Phill


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Unfortunately we have to get tougher and a tad more selfish to avoid being trodden on. The secret is to develop that skill without lowering yourself to "their" level.



Do unto others............................................... before they bloody do it to you.

After you, everyone else comes first.


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

If it something to do with property try mybuilder.com . 

Gary


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

drcotts said:


> Hi debs
> I think this a very interesting post as me and pauline are the same as you in most respects.
> 
> The one think not to do is go into something on a whim and but something especially major purchases without planning.
> ...


Well said, excellent advice, I try never to pay full price for anything these days, a bit of discount goes a long way, most ticket prices are just a made up number, so long as there's profit in a sale and you show you have the ability to walk away, they give in, sales are few and far between these days so take advantage of every ploy you can, and even if they don't give in, you can still go back and offer them a bit more but less than what they wanted originally or finally be the mug, and pay what they ask


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

gj1023 said:


> If it something to do with property try mybuilder.com .
> 
> Gary


That's where we got the useless **** from, we now go only on recommendation, and always see work they've done recently.


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## gj1023 (Feb 23, 2010)

opps Kev, i`ll shut up and go sit in the corner, lol


Gary


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Recommendation from satisfied customers is the only way.
If a job is on price you don't want the profit to be made by cutting corners to get to the pub.
Never allow subcontractors


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Agesim*

I tend to think it is agesim thing. Now I get nothing but frustration in my dealings with most companies/organisations.
Just yesterday, I tried to convey to BT their error in keep on sending me bills address to "MISS" :evil:

My late partner passed away 3 years ago this Saturday, and bills had been in her name.

After her passing I made sure phone continued to be available and told BT to amend the bill addressee to myself. Bills started to come to MISS

Several times I wrote to BT and phoned them to ask for adjustments to be effected. To no avail.

Another bill arrived yesterday, so looked online for complaints section. You want a laugh ? Read it online. Horrendous and tells you nothing about how to deal with their error.

Ended up speaking to a very nice man in India, and at length, with several adjustemnet to his English comprehension, was asked to wait .

A nice young lady in Scotland then came into phone conversation, and explained all again.

At last, someone who uderstood my concerns and apologised profusely, promising to restart my account and billing with all ammendments so as to avoid stress to me, but it might take some time ?

And this is not an isolated occurence.
So my premise is that Agesim exists, as no one has taught civility and service to the current younger generation, and they believe WE owe them for being there. :roll:


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

Unfortunately being British seems to say that we "like to queue". This means that we are a very patient and understanding race. Well of the generation that are either pensioners or reaching pension age may well be the case, the younger generation unfortunately have no concept as to giving quality service - this of course is not true in all humans - call centres/administration service areas, are the worst offenders. The secret is to be firm, get your point across without being rude, and if immediately you feel that you are not getting across your point, ask immediately to speak to the Manager, do not take no for an answer and remind them that you are the customer. There is such a thing as customers charter, and you can of course go down the complaints route, but above all you have to be firm, no shilly shallying and accepting what you are being told. Remind them of the mantra
"Over promise and under deliver" In other words promise to do something and then deliver earlier.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

One of the first books I can recall was, if my ageing memory does not fail me, "The Water Babies". In it were two characters Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby" and "Mrs Bedonebyasyoudid". For some inexplicable reason, the morality of these names has stuck with me.
I am not thinking this will be of any help but it is interesting how we first develop a moral conscience; the bad guys just did not read the right books as children. :roll: 
Alan


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

mate of mine paul is an engineer so everything is listed, truth be told i find him a bit of a pain in a lot of way's but he would genuinely give you the shirt of his back, but the man does love his list's and i tell him he's a C.O.D, he just laugh's say's he prefers plaice ,eg he can give you weekly reading's of his gas & electric meter's for year's, 
when paul said he fancied a motorhome i got volunteered as his expert witness he had done load's of research and his wife and he fixed a layout , when he called on me to go and see a few van's he had got a circuit laid out to see 5 van's, the first one was no longer available, but when we got to the second paul got out his clipboard and when the salesman offered or quoted anything it got written down this made the salesman very nervous and when he asked why paul said this will be my condition's of sale, 
unbeknown to me paul had been lurking on this site after my recommendation and had read poor locksmith's tale & was determined not to be caught, 
he prepared a list of all the salesman's promises and would not have bought the veh without it being signed off by the 'boss' as he put it, he used the same principle with the narrow boat he eventually bought, the motorhome is going to wait until he has the time for longer trip's , 
the look of panic in a couple of the salesman's eyes was enough to make me think of using the method myself, but i went and fell in love with mine!!!


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## Markt500 (Mar 23, 2010)

Sorry to go back to the last page, but if anyone wants building advice or decent contractors, let me know. I have a contractor network I use for my work and would be happy to pass on any details/ advice


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

Its quite simple 

Here's the deal, 

I give you good money 

You give me good service

You give good service 

I give you good money 

If it doesn't involve the above logic,,no deal

I've been in the trade over 40 yrs, and its always been that way with customers and vice versa

Norrie


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## IanA (Oct 30, 2010)

Expectations, Specifications, Communications 


I want xxx, I don't want yyyy. 
I want xxx to comply with aaa regs, have a 1/2/3/5 year warranty and I want to pay no more than £££. 

I want it delivered by dd/mm/yyyy 

- now, repeat back what I want and confirm in writing what you will deliver. 

I will pay you 5% of the total cost now, 80% on receipt and 15% when I am satisfied that everything is OK.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Thank you ALL

What a lot of great advice, some I already try and some are new to me.

Good news is that I did email the said perpetrator and I have received a promising response. I'm glad I didn't name and shame now, but let's wait and see eh? 

I have a promise to rectify things and the trusting soul I am means I will hope for an acceptable solution. What other choice do I have when I've parted with a very big bundle of cash and am currently in a worse position than before I made the original contract?? 

Rock and hard place, that's where I often find myself with these people  

Debs

p.s. there should be an emotion for a little face with a halo since there are devils don't you think???

I feel I deserve one...for being kind and patient with the nice man although..

I did feel a little bit like a Rottweiler for a while there....


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

Dont let anyone "sell" you anything only pay for goods once you have them in your hands if possible, make sure they were not made in China if thats possible, dont get any work done by some Polish guy's that can do it on the cheap, and remember everyone is trying to rip you off all you have to do is work out how! 
I wont have anyone in the house unless I know them or one of my mates knows them.
The most important thing to remember is you dont get owt for nowt!!
Chris


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## Mandale (May 18, 2011)

Different perspective!

Me and my lovely fiancée bought an insurance approved bodyshop eight years ago, we put our heart and sole into the company and worked with the most unscrupulous of people “insurance companies”. We employed eighteen staff, the usual bunch some good, some very good and the usual bad apples. You know the type, hiding instead of working and always off sick on a Monday morning. We struggled for years and after a particular period of over twelve months of taking barely minimum wages we reluctantly decided to make redundancies. We paid all redundant staff more than they were entitled to and gradually started to rebuild the business. It’s no fun when your wages virtually match a second year apprentice and you own the company.
I am very happy to say that the company is now fine and I can now take a wage every week.

We have always put honesty and humanity before profit “as you can tell from the early profit and loss accounts”.

We recently sold our first motorhome. But, there was some confusion over cab air-conditioning, the customer thought it had it. The sale was agreed and the customer left the deposit. On pre-delivery discussions, the misunderstanding came to light.
The customer was polite but obviously unhappy. 

So at a cost of £2000.00 to us we fitted the Dometic 1600 plus air con and a Dometic inverter to run it whilst driving.

The customer for our first motorhome sale is very happy and so am I.

I would rather have a happy customer and a clear conscience that one person unhappy with my company.

So if you are a good, hardworking, honest person come and see us, if you are greedy and unreasonable, please don’t “we can’t afford you”.

Scoundrels can be forgotten even if not forgiven, real people are remembered !

I drink strong coffee before bed and have no need for Horlicks.

Keep your chin up and don’t let them get you down.

By the way we are still saving for the wedding.


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## ThingyFromWales (Jul 15, 2007)

Mandale said:


> Different perspective!
> 
> So if you are a good, hardworking, honest person come and see us, if you are greedy and unreasonable, please don't "we can't afford you".
> 
> ...


Your story throws a bit of light on 'stuff' really, the first bit about the people you employ and trust (and you get the 'fall-out' when it all goes wrong don't you?) and also that you don't drink Horlicks!

I will keep you in mind, when we next change our van! It's a long way, but it may be worth it. Our current van was bought locally and the warranty wasn't worth the paper it was written on...but that's another story.

Good luck with the savings 

Debs


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

You will always be nice and the unnice people will prey on you. It is the way of the world but I would rather be "Nice" than an "Unnice" person simply for my own self respect.

But there are a fair number of nice people and luckily most of them on this website.


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## mags52 (May 9, 2010)

When I started out as self employed I heard this quote,
"You can have quick, you can have cheap and you can have good. You just can't have them all at once."
I sometimes say this to my customers because people often want to pay little for excellent work and have it done tomorrow.
I'm not in any kind of sales or craft trade so the principles might not follow but as a general rule you do get what you pay for.

When I buy a car or MH I usually state very plainly what I want and what I don't want e.g.
"I want a diesel, less than 2 years old and less than x in price. I don't want that old salesman's rubbish about going to talk to the manager to see what deal you can give me and I don't want to sit here for hours. Can you do this for me?"


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

mags52 said:


> When I started out as self employed I heard this quote,
> "You can have quick, you can have cheap and you can have good. You just can't have them all at once."
> I sometimes say this to my customers because people often want to pay little for excellent work and have it done tomorrow.
> I'm not in any kind of sales or craft trade so the principles might not follow but as a general rule you do get what you pay for.
> ...


And I bet they still try it on.


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## rangitira (Feb 17, 2011)

Get yourself a firm quote, in writing, not an "estimate" Always be firm, explicite in what you want, NEVER NEVER hand over money until the job is done to your satifaction. Don't fall for the old trick of "need money for materials" get the materials delivered to your address and pay the driver.
Never be intimidated by stand over merchants, or "it's my dying kid mums wifes birthday et al!

drcotts has given you some good advice in his post,

To beat the B*****ds, it's best if you are one too!


And smile when you're doing it!


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## cheshiregordon (Sep 24, 2011)

mags52 said:


> When I started out as self employed I heard this quote,
> "You can have quick, you can have cheap and you can have good. You just can't have them all at once."
> I sometimes say this to my customers because people often want to pay little for excellent work and have it done tomorrow.
> I'm not in any kind of sales or craft trade so the principles might not follow but as a general rule you do get what you pay for.
> ...


"going to talk to the manager" is the one ploy which has me heading for the door! I won't negotiate with anyone who is not empowered to make a desicion and finalise a deal. 
I think this post though is a little like " is the glass half ful or half empty?" If you never expect to much you'll get pleasantly surprised alot of the time.


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