# Batteries: The Brutal Truth.



## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

We often see questions about what type of battery is 'best', normal open flooded lead acid (FLA) or Gel and I have always advised to buy FLA as I could never see the benefit in spending three or even five times more on a same size Gel.. but there are many more compelling reasons why not to buy Gel.

This discussion came up on another forum and GT gave us this link, thought it worth passing on..

*The brutal truth about marine leisure batteries:*

:: Sterling Power ::

Footnote.
For those who don't know GT he is an ex member of MHF


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Jim



> Watch the term leisure / deep cycle as it simply does not exist.


Now that is interesting-so all the companies who advertise them as such are misleading us all?? 8O

I believe GT has shares in Sterling :lol: :wink:


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## spooky (May 1, 2005)

A very enlightening and enjoyable read, 
thanks 

Malc


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## hogan (Oct 31, 2006)

A good read, but being a total layman when it comes to electrics, am I right in thinking that when my 7 year old 80AH gel batterie dies I will be better off going to the local garage and buying 2 80HR lead acid batteries rather than 2 new gells?


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*batts*

Forget the hype boys . gel this gel that. rubbish. In 1946 my dad bought a humber estate car ex wd ex western desert, him ex 6 years WD, me 6yrs old . what did it have for a batt! lead acid. whats in my MH today. lead acid. 4 months in france this year , very little campsite use, mostly aires . never a flat batt. stick to the tried and tested.


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Of course, I taught GT all he knows :roll: But I do remember this subject brought up some time ago and it may well have been yourself or GT. And if I remember rightly, no one challenged the lead is better so I have assumed lead is best. It will be interesting to see if any gel fanatics endeavour to prove otherwise. But I was thinking that if lead is best then the future of these electric cars in effect, running on 40 year old technology becomes less attractive to me.


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## 104705 (May 24, 2007)

A thought provoking article!


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Ahh Sh*t . . too late for me as I fitted a 130amp gel battery in place of the 80amp lead acid one & yes it was a lot more expensive . . . I only hope it lasts & does the job - 'next' time I'll follow the advice and fit 2 x 80 lead acid batteries


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Pusser said:


> But I was thinking that if lead is best then the future of these electric cars in effect, running on 40 year old technology becomes less attractive to me.


lithium-ion pusser, not lead acid is what the latest ones are using.

Olley


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"'next' time I'll follow the advice "

Vic,

I did give you opportunity in time, face-to-face I recall, as well as these:

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-240018-gel.html#240018
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-302860-gel.html#302860
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-281888-gel.html#281888
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-195209-gel.html#195209
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-179066-gel.html#179066
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-85969-gel.html#85969
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-303214-gel.html#303214
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-324289.html#324289

Perhaps when stated on a dealer's website it somehow becomes more credible ....

Dave


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## 100251 (Jul 28, 2006)

*Batteries the brutal truth*

Found the following comparisons:

Lead acid battery pack £1695

Small lithium ion £8495
Large £10495

That's just the batteries!

The small lithium ion pack claims to give a converted Twingo a range of 60-80 miles, the large pack 80-100 miles. Comparable lead acid range 20-40 miles

Regards
Skywriter


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## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

In my Hymer the batteries (Gel types) are fixed under the cab seats. If I replaced them (one is apparently due soon) with liquid lead acid rather than Gel is there a problem with gassing while charging? If so is there a danger of the hydrogen building up in the van and exploding?

Or could I just use a sealed liquid lead acid or is it a matter of the charging rate of the battery not whether it is GEl or liquid, which causes gassing?

We all want to save money but want to stay safe.
Vidura


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Mine are FLA under the cab seats. A tube goes from the standard battery moulded vent outlet through a small hole in the floor via a grommet.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

quite interesting! So far I thought that there is at least a little difference between starter and leisure batteries regarding plate surface. Will have to investigate here, because starter batteries are still significantly cheaper than FLA "leisure" batteries. 

Nevertheless, there is one real disadvantage of the FLA battery: You need to fit a vent tube to prevent this nasty mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that a gassing battery emits (and which is not without reason called "detonating gas"!) from building up in your van. 

But fitting a tube can be done for a few quid, so really no reason to use Gel batteries.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

I've always bought £40 80AH leisure batteries and abused them. I will run them to dead flat and ignore them over winter. Seem to last for years.


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

Hi All

What a article, fantastic, a real eye opener.

I know they say Gels are greener and safer, or so they say. If you then fit standard lead acid and a breather pipe to the outside world, are you just as safe from any form of detonation? 
In the long run most of us just want to have one less thing to worry about.

Kind regards


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"I know they say Gels are greener and safer, or so they say."
Who says that, other than those selling them?

"If you then fit standard lead acid and a breather pipe to the outside world, are you just as safe from any form of detonation?"
Yes, although this is only needed if the battery locker doesn't naturally vent properly to the outside.

Dave


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## richard863 (May 1, 2005)

*Batteries: The Brutal Truth*

Hi Dave

Thank you for the info. One last set of questions please.

On my MH my leisure batteries are under the floor in a container in the garage, this is not at present vented to the outside world. In the garage above the floor I have a electric motor to drive the hydraulics for leveling, there is also a 3KW PSW inverter that has fans, finally a small Cool Fun mains chest freezer. 
In your opinion would lead acid cells vented to atmosphere be sufficiently safe with the above equipment in the garage?
Would the air pressure under the van whilst in motion assist in sucking the gases out or would it prevent the gas build up escaping?

Sorry if it sounds stupid.

Kind regards


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Richard,

Difficult to say without looking/photo, but I'd be tempted to go tube and grommet. When I'm home I'll look up a photo which may show the tube and grommet arrangement from my batteries. It is so simple I wouldn't agonise over not having it. And the money to be saved going cheap FLA over gel/SLA is HUGE.

Dave


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> "'next' time I'll follow the advice "
> Vic,
> I did give you opportunity in time, face-to-face I recall,Perhaps when stated on a dealer's website it somehow becomes more credible ....
> Dave


Thats exactly the reason Dave, oh and at the time I had money burning a hole in my pocket :wink:


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## Ginamo (Sep 5, 2006)

I've just bought two 100a/h batteries from http://www.batteries4caravans.co.uk type 679LB spec:
100 AMP Battery 
Silver Calcium Technology - No Gasing 
50% Longer Cycling Live 
Sealed Technology - Extra Safety 
Maintenance free 
Magic Eye Charge Indicator 
Ideal for Motorhomes 
356mm length 
175mm width 
190mm height 
Expensive but No Gasing. They say technology developed for ambulance use (said the salesman).
To early to say how well they perform. Any thoughts?
Alec


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Alec,

Check your charger is on a gel/SLA setting. If not, you risk early demise of your batteries.

You probably paid a premium of ~£55 over FLA.

Dave


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## Ginamo (Sep 5, 2006)

Dave,

Thank you, I paid £71.99 each for the batteries. I could not take 110 amp as my charger (picture attached) states 200 amp max.

Have you come accross "Silver Calcium Technology - No Gasing "?

Alec


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

I have fitted an AGM to my Adria Twin because of it's location. Adria stipulate that any replacement should be an AGM as there is no provision for a vent pipe in the battery locker. The prices quoted for an AGM in the article seems to be a bit wide of the mark. I paid £125 inc delivery for a 130ah.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Alec,

I wouldn't have worried about the 200Ah maximum. If you had wanted 2* 110Ah that would have been fine. Your batteries would still charge overnight unless they were absolutely exhausted.

As I mentioned your charger needs setting for gel. See top of page 38 of your manual:
http://www.calira.de/de/tools/datenblaetter/94.pdf

As to silver calcium, IMHO this is battery technology to lessen some of the gel/SLA pitfalls in the first place. OK, it improves shelf-life, but it has a higher gassing voltage and is less susceptible to damage at higher temperatures. For these reasons the technology is increasingly being used for vehicle batteries, but this is a more benign environment for lead-acid technology (apart from CCA/high starting currents) than the damage we motorhomers inflict on our leisure batteries. The point is a cheap FLA doesn't need this more expensive technology 

Here is my battery venting arrangement under the driver's seat. Most, if not all, FLA leisure batteries should have the moulded plug/socket onto which fits the transparent tube.

Dave


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