# North Yorkshire Protest



## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Dont put up with the parking ban.Look Here


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Ok tried to read it but very confusing at 07:300 in the morning still wont park there though as l dont have money for legal fees


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Thanks, more power to Andy's campaign! They are getting a bit fed up with him, I think? Why can't these local authorities see that it will be sensible - and beneficial to the tourism of the area - to allow motorhomes to overnight? What's wrong with having a few bays available for motorhomes in each area? more local authorities are formalising things now - Canterbury, Havant, and now west Dorset. 
As has been said many times in previous threads about Scarborough, vested interests by campsite owners to "force" motorhomes into the local sites seem to be driving this- irrespective of the fact that people who wish to park up overnight in places like north bay would not even consider stopping on a local site? 

These councils are living in the dark ages.


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## bigcats30 (Aug 13, 2012)

Their loss as it's just another reason not to spend my holidays in the UK and go overseas...and taking my money with me.

Councils are given far to much power.


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## Remus (Feb 10, 2011)

Tired? Take a break!

I was tired and I saw a place where I would not be an inconvenience or danger to other road users or pedestrians. So, I took a break and inadvertently fell asleep. Are the council seriously saying that I should have carried on driving in a, potentially, dangerous condition simply to avoid infringing a parking restriction.

What is wrong with this defence? Seems reasonable to me.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Having been to Scarborough on many occasions, only to Olivers Mount, and once to Andys Motorcycles to buy my first Harley, there is nothing else there which would encourage me to want to go there in the van, let alone want to stay overnight, there and any other seaside town.

I also had to deliver there very often so got to see the place quite a lot, I just found it dreary.


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## ned (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi 
Quite agree. A total dump. Tired and unloved, even the big hotel looks as if it's about to fall down. It reflects badly on what is a lovely part of England.

Cheers..... Ned


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

The restrictions also cover Whitby. But lets bare in mind that if one council gets away with introducing restrictions like these others will see it as a green light to do the same. 

A lot of Scarborough may be dirty and depressing but there are nicer areas. I also like supporting the small trader while visiting areas and don't want to be stuck miles away on a site with caravans jam packed around me.


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## wasfitonce (Apr 27, 2009)

*North Yorkshire*

Well done Jezzpot keep the protest up.

One of the reasons we will not be going to York****re in July to watch the TDF. Will be in France where we are welcome.

WASFITONCE


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

Jezport said:


> The restrictions also cover Whitby. But lets bare in mind that if one council gets away with introducing restrictions like these others will see it as a green light to do the same.
> 
> A lot of Scarborough may be dirty and depressing but there are nicer areas. I also like supporting the small trader while visiting areas and don't want to be stuck miles away on a site with caravans jam packed around me.


Cornwall County Council is on this bandwagon with bans on Motorhomes in 18 car parks between 23:00 and 08:00 http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=33744

Motor homes are prohibited on the Parade in Llandudno between 24:00 and 08:00.

Also There is a Traffic Regulation Orders prohibiting waiting of camping vehicles between 12 midnight and 8am on the following roads in the Conwy County Borough, there is no prohibition of eating or sleeping in the Traffic Regulation Order

Happy Valley Road, Llandudno - for its entire length,
North Parade, Llandudno - for its entire length,
The Parade / Colwyn Road, Llandudno - from its junction with North Parade to its junction with Ffynnon Sadwrn Lane,
Marine Drive, Llandudno - from its junction with Abbey Road to Toll Gate Lodge,
West Parade, Llandudno -for its entire length,
Abbey Road, Llandudno - from its junction with West Parade to its junction with Church Walks,
Gloddaeth Road, Llandudno - from it junction with West parade to its junction with Great Ormes Road,
Lloyd Street West, Llandudno - from its junction with West Parade to its Junction with Great Ormes Road,
Great Orms Road, Llandudno - from its junctions with Abbey Road and Gloddaeth Avenue, and its junction between Lloyd Street and Trinity Crescent.
Dale Road, Llandudno - for its entire length,
Trinity Crescent, Llandudno - for its entire length,
Tudor Road, Llandudno - for its entire length,
Fynnon Sadwrn Lane, Llandudno - for its entire length,
Nant-y-Gamar Road, Llandudno - from its junction with Colwyn Road to its junction with Bodafon Road,
Marine Drive, Penrhyn Bay - from it junction with Penrhyn Avenue to its junction with Trillo Avenue,
Rhos Promenade / West Promenade, Rhos-on-Sea - from its junction with Trillo Avenue to its junction with Cayley promenade,
Cayley Promenade, Rhos-on-Sea - for its entire length.

In the Conwy Traffic Regulation Order "Camping vehicles" means any caravan, caravanette, campervan or any other form of vehicle which has been made or adapted as a camping vehicle or to sleep in.

Cornwall states "A motorhome is defined as any vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping - ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back".

At least Scarborough used the EU/DVLA definition of a Motor Caravan and didn't just make something up.

It is the type of vehicle they are trying to ban because they find they cannot enforce "No Sleeping" TROs or by-laws.

Scottish Borders Council tries to impose such a ban but the Secretary of State in Scotland refused to approve such a blanket ban. In England and Wales they just seem to rubber stamp them.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Seems the trend is PLEASE come and spend your money during the day, but SOD OFF and sleep elsewhere, but PLEASE come back to spend more tomorrow.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Much as I and others appreciate all that you are doing, the exceptionally long post has put some off to trying to read the whole way through, I admit it was an effort to concentrate.
May I suggest in future the information is split up to keep interest up to your required level. Not I hasten to add in separate threads, but leave a gap between posts.

If Dorset works out this coming year and is not abused, then we can use this example to show that they could be wrong in their attitude.
A special by-line in the Yorkshire post, sort of thing to start with.
Perhaps you could post the email addresses of the Members of parliament for that area, one at a time would be good.

cabby


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

There is always a risk that over zealous campaigners and entrenched opinions tarnish the reputation of a broader group of people who lose out as a result.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Brock said:


> There is always a risk that over zealous campaigners and entrenched opinions tarnish the reputation of a broader group of people who lose out as a result.


I understand what your getting at, but whats your suggestion, just don't bother until we cant stop anywhere?


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Seems the trend is PLEASE come and spend your money during the day, but SOD OFF and sleep elsewhere, but PLEASE come back to spend more tomorrow.


I wont do that, if a council is ant motorhomes I will protest and if the protest is unsuccessful I will not spend my money in their town.

I know loads of motorhomers who now avoid Scarborough and head to the West coast and stop at St Annes in the seafront carpark. Its £5 per night with no special facilities. We are welcome there so we feel that we should go more often. It is also clean and tidy at St Annes. The only time Scarborough gets a clean is when it floods.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

cabby said:


> Much as I and others appreciate all that you are doing, the exceptionally long post has put some off to trying to read the whole way through, I admit it was an effort to concentrate.
> May I suggest in future the information is split up to keep interest up to your required level. Not I hasten to add in separate threads, but leave a gap between posts.
> 
> If Dorset works out this coming year and is not abused, then we can use this example to show that they could be wrong in their attitude.
> ...


Cabby

You did not make it clear who you were addressing.

Geoff


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jezport said:


> Dont put up with the parking ban.Look Here


Jezport

Thanks for opening this topic and the link.

I knew about Andy's effective campaign in Scotland in the past but had not been aware of the current ones, which have also produced some results to date.

I have been in touch with Andy today and offered support, which is a bit limited by distance, but there is the internet.

For those of you who have not followed the link and not read Andy's further link to the Spanish Governments attitude to local councils by-laws, I am copying part of their instructions to councils

[Edit: Sorry about the layout below - not my fault. You can skip it to my comment ]

"Therefore, in the opinion of the General Director o
f Traffic it is indisputable that the
exclusion of certain users must be necessarily moti
vated and based on reasonable
objections such as the external dimensions of the v
ehicle or the maximum permissible
weight (MMA) of the vehicle but not by use of subje
ctive reasons such as: possible
uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise a
t night, dumping of garbage or
waste water onto the public road, monopolization of
public space by erecting structures
and furnishings or other situations of abuse agains
t which local authorities have
effective legal tools to be used in a non-discrimin
atory manner against all violators,
whether users of motorhomes or any other type of ve
hicle.

Motorhome users are permitted to carry out manoeuvr
es of stopping and parking in the
same conditions and with the same limitations as any other vehicle"

In other words if a MH is parked within the same restrictions as other vehicles(space/weight/time etc.) what the vehicle is used for should not form a basis for further parking restriction. If other laws are breached(e.g. littering) they should be dealt with under the other laws available to the council.

I wonder whether the MH community in tackling this issue would not be better advised to persuade the UK Government to introduce the same policy into the Regulations governing the right of local authorities to impose parking restrictions based on type of vehicle or its use. It might be more effective than fighting lots of 'small fires' around the country.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Jezport said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> > Seems the trend is PLEASE come and spend your money during the day, but SOD OFF and sleep elsewhere, but PLEASE come back to spend more tomorrow.
> ...


Just to ensure we're on the same page, I was expressing my view on the trend of the councils overall.

I hope you get somewhere with the protest, my only concern might be the it could encourage the sort of people the signs were introduced in the first place if they are removed and attitudes relaxed, as I'm sure we've all seen laybys full of pikeys.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Hi all.
Is this banning a direct result of the TDF coming or just a general dislike of MH's ?
I cannot see how on earth they will stop the foreign visitors in their MH's (if they come) parking on every available grass verge as they do in France.
Do the French take any notice of signs ? 
NO
Will issuing parking tickets deter them ? 
NO
Can they tow away 000's of MH's ? 
NO
What will happen if they try and move on 000's of MH's ? 
Chaos when they all hit the toad at the same time with nowhere to go or stay.
I think they should embrace the spirit of the TDF and go with the flow.
James


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Jezport - There are ways of dealing with opposition whatever side of the fence you sit. Most of them revolve around facilitating constructive conversations.Getting hold of the right people in the Council will be difficult but salesmen are generally adept at getting through to the people who matter so those skills must be acquired.

I'd better stress that I do not know the background to the steps the campaigner has taken so he might be doing all the right things and be heading for a win:win for those involved.

Cabby made one sensible suggestion. Mine would be to take a step back and reflect on where the campaign is and consider what needs to happen next. Having spent many years dealing with conflict [it's inevitable in business], I am convinced there has to be a carefully considered plan focused on a clearly defined outcome. This is a good simple guide as to what steps might work.

http://www.impactfactory.com/p/conf...ent/friends_1351-5107-13697.html#.UrGyTCg8-tI


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have watched Andys tireless pursuit of questioning the TRO's enforced (or not as it may seem  ) by Scarborough Borough Council. He has been at them relentlessly. He has posted his Action web pages of which there have now been many mainly on the wild camping forum. 

I havent seen them on here but its probably a good idea seeing as how well this forum is indexed by google.

Im not so sure now that the big guns seem to have got involved that this will be a good thing. 

I admire him for what he is doing but I feel (certainly as far as Scarborough and Whitby are concerned) that its a lost cause. We just are not welcome there.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

It is not just motorhomes that can contravene local rules and byelaws.

Many Councils put a 1.5 Ton limit on vehicles. Many 4WD, especially Chelsea Tractors are well over that limit. There seems to be a trend among Councils to bring in totally pointless limitations. :?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Brock said:


> Jezport - There are ways of dealing with opposition whatever side of the fence you sit. Most of them revolve around facilitating constructive conversations.Getting hold of the right people in the Council will be difficult but salesmen are generally adept at getting through to the people who matter so those skills must be acquired.
> 
> I'd better stress that I do not know the background to the steps the campaigner has taken so he might be doing all the right things and be heading for a win:win for those involved.
> 
> ...


Brock

If you follow Jezport's link in his OP and read Andy's account of his campaign, in which he publishes letters he has written offering to seek a compromise solution, you might be in a better position to assess his conflict resolution skills.

Geoff


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

Or... Save your breath, save your stamps, save your time and just visit places that encourage motorhomes by providing parking areas, or at least tolerate parking overnight. That way the message will get through financially that their areas are losing out to others. Let the councils know by e-mail to their tourism departments of information centres just why you are avoiding them and sooner or later someone will report what's going on.

Or again... Use the money saved on stamps and asprin, bought to counter the effects of banging your head aginst a wall, to buy enough diesel and a ferry ticket to France! The whole of Europe is then open to you, especially Eastern Europe which if the Daily Expess and Mail are to be believed are now empty!! :lol:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Annsman said:


> Or... Save your breath, save your stamps, save your time and just visit places that encourage motorhomes by providing parking areas, or at least tolerate parking overnight.
> 
> Do you have a map showing them? Because I never know until I get there whether I can park o/night or not :roll:
> 
> Geoff


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

nicholsong said:


> Annsman said:
> 
> 
> > Or... Save your breath, save your stamps, save your time and just visit places that encourage motorhomes by providing parking areas, or at least tolerate parking overnight.
> ...


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

johnthompson said:


> This is work in progress http://www.tmcto.org/index.php/motorhome-parking-uk I have a further 2000 entries to make once I have verified the data with the council websites, correspondence after FOI requests and checking the TROs.
> 
> John


The link doesn't work but I found the website

Having looked at the three entries for my home town (Port Talbot) I would query the validity of some of the information.

for example, St Mary's is in Port Talbot town centre not Glyncorrwg. Bay View unless something has changed recently has a height barrier in place. Station Road is probably referring to Station Road, Port Talbot town centre rather than Station Road, Pontrhydyfen as this is a very narrow residential street with no council car park anywhere near.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

johnthompson said:


> nicholsong said:
> 
> 
> > Annsman said:
> ...


John[/quote]John

I had forgotten that you had started this project.

My excuse is that I have been living out of the country for 2+years so the topic had dropped off my radar, also my computer died together with my list of favourites.

I became more aware when we toured N. England and Scotland this year. Some problems in England but Scotland is easy thanks to Andy.

Here in Poland and Slovakia wild camping is a dream - no height barriers, no prohibition notices. I think there is an old Communist-era law prohibiting it but nobody cares. Mind you there are very few MHs.

I will take more interest from now on, although I cannot be of much practical help on the ground, but can do a bit of lobbying.

You have my support.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Mungo Jerry said it was OK


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## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

Kaytutt said:


> johnthompson said:
> 
> 
> > This is work in progress http://www.tmcto.org/index.php/motorhome-parking-uk I have a further 2000 entries to make once I have verified the data with the council websites, correspondence after FOI requests and checking the TROs.
> ...


Thank you for the feedback. Not having local knowledge we rely on the councils information and feedback from users.

The information I received from The City and County of Swansea was from Steve Sheriff, Acting Parking Services Manager, Parking Services Swansea His comments below:

Last week my senior manager requested that our website be improved, because to be perfectly honest it is not very good at all. I am hopeful that colleagues form our Web team will start work on this before too long but I am sure you will appreciate that it may take some time.

I have some limited lists at the moment with regard to address details but to be honest I don't believe I have anything about height barriers etc. However, as part these two pieces of work it will be worthwhile pulling all this together as soon as I have some useful information I will pass it onto you.

I am sure that some overnight parking will be appreciated and used and I'm sure some large spaces for day time parking would also be well used. This is something that will be looked at in the near future - the work keeps on coming!!

Height restrictions:
The majority of our surface car parks do not have any height restrictions.

Restricted access caused by narrow roads/entrances:
A couple of the City Centre car parks ie Pell Street and Park Street would probably be quite difficult but not impossible as would be the Quarry in Mumbles the others should be OK

The TRO simply lists a car park name and length of stay. Putting these into Google Earth turned up those locations.

I can let you have the list if you would care to correct the information.

John


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## Kaytutt (Feb 5, 2013)

johnthompson said:


> Kaytutt said:
> 
> 
> > johnthompson said:
> ...


Hi john, I've replied to your PM, more than happy to help, the sites I queried were Neath Port Talbot local authority but I can look at swansea too.


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