# Number Plate Spacing



## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

I am feeling spaced out.
I have just had the annual service carried out on our van.

Just reading the service report and one item is that "Spacing on number plates is incorrect".

Now these are the same plates fitted by Marquis when the van was new in 2003.
It has passed umpteen MOTs , including one at this very same garage in January.

Have I missed something?


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## alphadee (May 10, 2009)

I have had the same issue with the MH and with cars. Number plates as fitted from new but then fail an MOT even after previous successful passes.

Has your garage bought themselves a number plate making kit ?


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## premiermotorhomes (Feb 13, 2008)

Good afternoon,

You can find further details about UK number plates here: https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/overview

Specifically, you can find details about requirements in the following document.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067666.pdf

Regards,
Chris


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

nipperdin said:


> I am feeling spaced out.
> I have just had the annual service carried out on our van.
> 
> Just reading the service report and one item is that "Spacing on number plates is incorrect".
> ...


In what way are they spaced incorrectly?


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Send us a picture!

Cheers

Dave


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

There are multiple instances of this happening and many have gone to appeal and VOSA have found in favour of the motorist. Testers are not infallible and many of them fail in error, motorhome bump stops touching the springs and exhaust pipe terminating under vehicles being two common ones. In the case of the exhaust pipes these have been vehicles with standard exhausts which have got whole vehicle approvals.
Ask the person who commented on the number plates what it would have failed on with regards to the reasons for failure in the Testers Manual.
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_630.htm

From another forum there is a picture showing replacement good plates at the top and the failed ones at the bottom. It was nothing to do with makers logo/postcode or BSI logo etc but was apparently the font or spacing between the SXXX and XXX or some such thing. Nobody could actually explain it and the owner has I believe taken the case to VOSA.


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

I like the idea of them having a number plate making machine.

Hope this picture comes out- I am fighting with Windows 8.1 at the moment !

(Just been told attachment is too big. This may take a while !!!)


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

Many thanks to all of you who replied and for all of the sites information..

I finally managed to get a smaller picture- with the aid of a son who knows about these things.

I went back to the garage today to ask about their comments.
They said it is probably only a millimetre or two in it but they now put it down on all of their service reports.

In fact the wife of the owner said she got stopped by the police for the same thing. But she was just told to get it sorted- which she did.

I still find it puzzling that this has only come to light after having the van for 14 years.

Thanks again.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Hi
Looking at your photo I would say it does look miss spaced but its perfectly readable and your obviously not trying to make it read something its not or hide the number.
I wouldn't even waste my breath telling you to get it sorted.
I would say it looks worse due to having two number 1's which leave you with a lot of space at the end.
The biggest error I can see is the gap between the prefix and first number is too small, as a rule of thumb it should be twice the size of the gap between the numbers.
James


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

Many thanks James.
From some regulations that I downloaded the sample shows an 11mm gap between the Prefix and each of the following 3 numbers.

Then a 33mm Space to the last 3 letters.

The Number 1 (or letter I) are allowed to be of a smaller width, rather than the 50mm of the other letters.

As you say it is probably the two Number 1's being in the mix not helping.

Re the side margins (and top) it just says that there should be 11mm (minimum) so I guess that the space after the D on my plate is okay.

My goodness, isn't it all a lot of nonsense when you have no trouble seeing plenty of obviously illegal plates on the roads.

Thanks once again.

Maybe I shall try for A1 next time !!!!!


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

nipperdin said:


> Many thanks James.
> From some regulations that I downloaded the sample shows an 11mm gap between the Prefix and each of the following 3 numbers.
> 
> Then a 33mm Space to the last 3 letters.
> ...


It really is a load of old nonsense. Testers do not even know why they are failing them or at least cannot explain what they consider is wrong taking into account the date of original registration. The MOT testers manual says "Testers are not required to physically measure the characters or their spacing and the following information is provided for guidance only. Registration plates should only be rejected for character dimensions or spacing if they are clearly incorrect "

Taking the examples in the manual linked below how does your fail taking into account it's original registration date?
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_630.htm


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

Many thanks for that download address.
As far as I can tell my plates comply - but maybe there is a millimetre in it somewhere.

What is so stupid is that this very same garage did the MOT on the van in January and it passed without comment.

I had it serviced yesterday and that is when they added this comment to the report.
In the mechanic's handwriting " Spaceing on number plates.Incorect"
This was translated on the final printed invoice.

Other comments were "Unable to find jack or wheel brace" (Both in their bag just behind the driver's seat) and "Front indicator bulbs are slightly pale"

Maybe I am just getting to be an old Grump.
Thanks again


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## robbosps (Mar 10, 2014)

Looking at the plate, it looks wrong, but is legible and the fonts look,correct. 
If it fails on the plate, save the stress and buy a new one. They are very cheap, you would get change from £10. 

The reasons they are getting stricter is due to the DVLA. And the issues surrounding altered plates.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

robbosps said:


> Looking at the plate, it looks wrong, but is legible and the fonts look,correct.
> If it fails on the plate, save the stress and buy a new one. They are very cheap, you would get change from £10.
> 
> The reasons they are getting stricter is due to the DVLA. And the issues surrounding altered plates.


I think is is because the A is too close to the first 1.

Personally I'd have made them remake it for no other reason that it looks lopsided.

..... that probably helps to make it look "wrong".

They should see the one I followed today 
Single Letter - 3inch gap - Single Number - another 3 inch gap - 3 Letters :roll:


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Hope they start clamping down on cars with all the windows blacked out. I'm seeing more and more each day.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

I had a former motorhome fail its MOT because the name of the number plate supplier and the BS number did not appear at the bottom of the number plate. Yet when you look around at other vehicles this information doesn't always appear but presumably the vehicles in question passed.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

My son failed my Wife's car for not displaying the postcode of the plate issuer. They were having a VOSA inspection at the time. We had taken her personalised plates from a pre 51 plate car and put them on a post 51 plate car. Evidently, that is when the rules changed.
Personally I am totally in favour of any prosecution of all drivers who have personalised plates where the spacing or font has been altered to make a word. Put it this way, if your nearest and dearest were hurt in an accident and the driver did not stop, who would you blame if the vehicle could not be recognised because the plate could not be deciphered quickly?
Gerry


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Just for interest Gerry, I'm not sure I entirely agree on that particular point! :wink: 

If the number is clearly readable, and makes a recognisable word, that's likely to be quicker to decipher and easier to memorise than standard "random" letters and numbers.

For example, if you were run over by S1MON (or similar) there would be no confusion in recalling that number when the Plod asked for a description.

Not that I am condoning the practice - specially the ones that (theoretically) can't be read by the speed cameras!! :roll: 

Dave


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

In America they seem to be allowed to make up all sorts of names for their number plates.
I do wonder if these would be easier to remember in the case of incidents.

My plates do not make up a name but have JAD (my initials) as the final 3 letters.
We have a Fiat Panda which is now over 2 years old and I still cannot remember the standard number plate that was issued I do know that the last 3 letters on it are OOU. (Sounds like Kenneth Williams going "OOU you are awfull")

I am now getting paranoid and go around car parks looking at the layout on number plates.
One thing I noticed yesterday was that many of them do not have the little blue GB section on the left.
Is that a choice ?


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

> (Sounds like Kenneth Williams going "OOU you are awfull")


Dick Emery :wink:



> do not have the little blue GB section on the left.
> Is that a choice ?


Yes - it usually costs extra.


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

Crikey. I had forgotten all about Dick Emery, and that poor interviewer who got a hard shove. Great stuff.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

nipperdin said:


> Crikey. I had forgotten all about Dick Emery, and that poor interviewer who got a hard shove. Great stuff.


There was a bio of him on BBC3 or 4 only a week or so ago - so many memories of all his great characters - especially "Mandy" who was the awful one.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

My MH failed its MOT on Monday due to a "lump or bulge caused by cord separation" I asked them to swop the spare so I could have an MOT and give myself a few days to source a new tyre.

When I got it home I carefully examined said "failure" tyre (bearing in mind I spent many years looking at tyres etc so I certainly know what to look for) try as I might I could not find any form of lump or bulge. However what I DID find was severe cracking in the depths of the tread (which I hadnt spotted during m y pre MOT "look round" ) Its concerns me a little that the tester found something that doesnt appear to be there yet missed something a lot more obvious. 

I checked the tyres date stamp, 7 years old! I have now replace both tyres of that age with new ones!


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

> Mrplodd said My MH failed its MOT on Monday due to a "lump or bulge caused by cord separation" I asked them to swop the spare so I could have an MOT and give myself a few days to source a new tyre.


In many instances radial tyres are failed for this when it is normal indentations or undulations caused by the manufacturing process. A previous topic http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-170042-.html with a reference to http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=32

If it was cord separation it would stand out and detailed inspection would not be required/


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Stanner

It may cost extra to have 'GB' on the plate, but I think it is still a requirement to have it somewhere - GB stickers used to be given out by ferry operators with your ticket, but with their logo of course :wink: 

Geoff


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

> GB stickers used to be given out by ferry operators with your ticket, but with their logo of course :wink: *
> 
> Geoff


Yes it is still a requirement to display "GB" on on the rear of the vehicle but it is optional whether or not to have it in/on the registration plate.

Pg 11........
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067666.pdf

You can have a Euro symbol or for the Kippers & Snippers you can choose to have a country flag instead.

*You can still get them on board, but now they cost £6.99 :roll:


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

I had the two 5 year old Michelin rear tyres replaced last year and one of them was found to have a split in the wall.

Goodness knows how much tyre damage is being caused at the moment by potholes.
We have some very bad ones around in West Sussex.

According to the local press the authorities have come up with a time formula for repairing them according to their depth.

Think it might end up like the "there is a hole in my bucket, dear Henry" song.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

nipperdin said:


> I had the two 5 year old Michelin rear tyres replaced last year and one of them was found to have a split in the wall.
> 
> Goodness knows how much tyre damage is being caused at the moment by potholes.
> We have some very bad ones around in West Sussex.
> ...


Oh dear the memory is going

It is/was 'There is a hole in my bucket Dear Liza, Dear Liza.'

'Then mend it Dear Henry, Dear Henry ...mend it!'

OK I have 7 years memory on you, but I get the message.

Geoff


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Enjoy!

The piece below you will not enjoy but it is inevitable with the extent of the damage.......

Sadly, the Local Authorities have also come up with a "modified" formula for claiming from them for said tyre damage which means they now have unlimited time to repair the potholes before they are liable "because there were too many claims......."

from the Highways Dept. webpage on claims;

_The large major­ity of claims brought against us are unsuccessful.

We aim to react promptly to reports of debris on the road but can­not be held respon­si­ble for the actions of third par­ties using our net­work. Debris-related claims will not be successful.
The courts in Eng­land have con­sis­tently ruled that it is unre­al­is­tic to expect high­ways to be per­fect and that faults such as pot­holes are inevitable.
It is rare that vehi­cle dam­age can be attrib­uted to neg­li­gence on the part of the high­way authority._

http://www.highways.gov.uk/our-road...nsation/claims-for-damage-caused-by-potholes/

For Devon County Council (our last Council);

http://www.devon.gov.uk/highways_insurance_claims_vehicle_and_property_damage.htm

Dave


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## nipperdin (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks for the correction from Nicholsong.

Yes, of course it was that way round.
Oh dear, that is two corrections in one day.

I blame it on today's atmosphere pollution- though it has been quite breezy in Worthing.

Must concentrate more !


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