# Hymer starting problems



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi everyone. I am after a bit of advice please.
I have a 1989 Hymer S555, this is my second year of ownership and the second time I am encountering the same problem.
After `laying up` the van last year I was unable to start it and a bad starter motor was diagnosed. I got this replaced and we went to France for the summer with no problems at all, fantastic.
I have come to start the van again only to find the glow plug light wont illuminate and the engine wont crank! The battery is fully charged, I have checked the connections and cleaned the earth to the chassis, but nothing!
The fuses all seem OK but I cant even locate the glow plug relay, let alone check it.
Before I call out the AA or an auto electrician, can anyone offer some guidance please, even where the relays are located.

Many thanks, Robin.


----------



## teifiprt (Oct 2, 2007)

I think the first thing i would do is to use jump leads from another vehicle so that you eliminate the battery as a potential problem, sometimes they show fully charged but without the guts to turn engine over.
HTH
Peter.


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thank you Peter, unfortunately I have already tried this but forgot to mention it.
Regards, Robin.


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

> The battery is fully charged


 How do you know ?

What's the battery voltage with the

1 Engine off
2 Engine running (If you can get it running)
3 Voltage across the battery whilst cranking ?

D.


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

I am unable to test with a voltmeter as I dont have one. However, the voltmeter in the cabin for the leisure battery is about 14v and the reading for the starter battery is the same. I have tried jump starting, re-charged the battery and the lights illuminate brilliantly. 
The engine does not crank, the starter makes no effort to turn, click, not dull the lights!
The lack of glow plug lights is new for this year! Didn't happen before.
Otherwise a beautiful 20 year old van with less than 40,000 kilometres on the clock............ but it wont go!
Robin.


----------



## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Seeing as you have no voltmeter I'm going to suggest something else.

Get your hammer out & give the starter motor a few good knocks. It might be stuck. If it's not it'll vent a bit of frustration 8O 

D.


----------



## teifiprt (Oct 2, 2007)

The other thing I can suggest is the starter solenoid. Open bonnet and try to hear it clicking on and off when someone turns the ignition key to start. The solenoid will be located close to the starter motor. If you had a voltmeter you could test whether you had a supply at the solenoid when you turn the key, if you have and no clicking noise then probably a faulty solenoid.
Peter.


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

I will do that tomorrow morning and report back. New starter motor last June, but as you say, vent some frustration whatever.
Robin.
P.s. Do you know where the relay for the glow plug might be hiding?


----------



## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

wouldn't worry too much at the moment about the glow plugs, if they weren't working it would still crank and eventually fire - if there was sufficient juice. the other option is to put in gear and rock backwards and forwards, i do appreciate it is heavy! but may be possible if on the level.

simon


----------



## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Have you considered a worn starter ring jamming the new starter motor


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Unfortunately Simon its an automatic, so no pushing.

Regarding the starter ring I will give the starter a bash tomorrow and then decide if I am brave enough to take it off and have a look or not.

I really appreciate the dialogue. thank you.

Robin.


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Check that you have a good earth connection, you can use a jump lead from the starter motor to the chassis.

Peter


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.

I have now whacked the starter motor, added additional earthing and still not a dicky bird!

I suspect removal of the starter motor is the next logical step. It being a new one is there anything else that can make the starting seize up? As for the glow plug lights I have almost forgotten their absence.

Best wishes,

Robin.


----------



## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

Is the starter motor a permamently engaged type?


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Take the starter off clamp it in a vice connect an earth from a battery to the body and touch the live to the terminal the heavy wire was attached to, if it turns it is probably not the starter. Not a foolproof test but fairly dependable, I have seen a faulty starter run in the vice but not turn the engine over. Still a good indication. If it does run you should spend a tenner on a cheap multi-meter and see if there is power to the starter, Alan.


----------



## PhilK (Jul 1, 2005)

*Non Starting Hymer*

Robin,

Have you got more than one key? If you have, try the other one. Your keys will contain transponders which if you are using an aftermarket one may open doors etc but not turn off your immobiliser. Another possibility, has the motor home got an alarm, is it faulty?

Phil


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for these helpful thoughts.
The motorhome is 20 years old and I don't think has an immobiliser in the key as its just a standard key. It does have an alarm, buts its switched off permanantly (I hope). I have checked the earth to the starter again, it normally goes via the engine I guess as there is no earth terminal as such. I have connected a jump lead to the solenoid main terminal and on to the positive of the battery, no movement. 
As a medic and not a mechanic I think I might struggle to get the starter off as I can only just access the thing from underneath let alone the holding nuts.
Probably time to call out the AA or a mechanic, but I have enjoyed? trying to fix it myself. I think I would have obtained enormous pleasure had it fired up after my efforts.
Now I am a `member` I will keep involved but doubt I have a great deal to offer technically.
Thanks for your support guys, very much appreciated.

Best wishes, Robin.


----------



## peeter (Aug 6, 2009)

This is very interesting as I think I had the same problem with my Hymer in the early late 80s.The garage changed the starter motor and the ignition and checked out the earth contacts.It was eventually traced to a relay which was situated near the starter battery. The contacts were cleaned as I remember and it solved the problem.As I remember I was rather annoyed as I had paid for a new starter motor and work on the ignition which I could not get back.I was told later that this was quite a common fault on Ducatos.Hope this helps.


----------



## jeffro (Jan 13, 2009)

i seem to remember someone else having this prob it was something to do with the wire from the ignition switch to the selonoid on the starter motor they tried a wire from the battery to the small connector on the starter selonoid and at least got it going Jeffro


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks again guys.

I will try a wire to the small terminal on the solenoid and positive terminal on the battery tomorrow. 

Intuitively I think it is the ignition switch, not sure exactly why but I recall having to try a few attempts or fiddle with the key/ steering lock to start it last year. Having said this, it was fine for 6 weeks touring France last summer with the new starter motor in place. It seems to be problematic after its been laid up for a while!

With regards to relays, I cant see any anywhere. I wonder if they are hidden under the dash on the Mercedes 555?

I will report in tomorrow.

All the best,

Robin.


----------



## cmautoservices (Feb 26, 2009)

exfatdad said:


> Hi everyone. I am after a bit of advice please.
> I have a 1989 Hymer S555, this is my second year of ownership and the second time I am encountering the same problem.
> After `laying up` the van last year I was unable to start it and a bad starter motor was diagnosed. I got this replaced and we went to France for the summer with no problems at all, fantastic.
> I have come to start the van again only to find the glow plug light wont illuminate and the engine wont crank! The battery is fully charged, I have checked the connections and cleaned the earth to the chassis, but nothing!
> ...


Hi 
To the side of the engine battery there is a red wire (joined together with spade terminals) which goes to the starter motor, this connection is common for corrosion, might be worth a look.
Regards Mark


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks Mark. I will have a look tomorrow before I `hot wire` the solenoid.
Regards, Robin.


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Well an update!

After lunch I clambered under the van and connected a wire to the smaller terminal on the solenoid direct to the positive battery terminal and rather surprisingly (in the absence of glow plug lights coming on, therefore warming up and going off) the old girl started immediately! 

I guess that's good, but does it help identify where the problem lies? I looked for dodgy connections and couldn't find any checked what fuses I could and they all seem fine.

If this `new` development offers any insight to any of you I would very much appreciate it. Is there possibly a fuse involved I am missing, an obvious place for corrosion (unfortunately no local spade connectors obvious as culprits).

Thanks in anticipation of your interest.

Best wishes,

Robin.


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

exfatdad said:


> Well an update!
> 
> After lunch I clambered under the van and connected a wire to the smaller terminal on the solenoid direct to the positive battery terminal and rather surprisingly (in the absence of glow plug lights coming on, therefore warming up and going off) the old girl started immediately!
> 
> ...


The fault would appear that there is no voltage getting to the starter solenoid when the key is switched to the start position. I guess a volts tester is the next step to trace the route from the switch via whatever route it takes to the solenoid.


----------



## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

don't worrry about a meter make up or buy a test light to check to see if you have a voltage from the back of the ign switch and try to trace the wire from there it could be just a bad switch especially as you had trouble with the key you could try banging the steering wheel with your hand while turning the key it might make a difference


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

I like the idea of thumping something to make it work, good basic stuff. I will try.

Accessing the back of the ignition switch is difficult, I tried it last year with the same problem. The ignition switch sits about 9 inches to the right of the steering column and must also disengage the steering lock. It seems embedded in the lengthy dashboard.

Thanks for your help guys, really useful.

Regards,

Robin.


----------



## 130997 (Jan 31, 2010)

Sorry to have been so long in getting back.
It appears the problem is with the ignition barrel, so says the visiting auto-electrician, worn out copper contacts!
I have the part on order and am keeping my fingers crossed it will solve the problem.
I will let you know.

Best wishes, Robin.


----------



## welsh_petal (3 mo ago)

citroennut said:


> wouldn't worry too much at the moment about the glow plugs, if they weren't working it would still crank and eventually fire - if there was sufficient juice. the other option is to put in gear and rock backwards and forwards, i do appreciate it is heavy! but may be possible if on the level. simon


 Why does this work?? It works on my mums Hymer which we found out by mistake. What’s wrong with it?


----------



## welsh_petal (3 mo ago)

citroennut said:


> wouldn't worry too much at the moment about the glow plugs, if they weren't working it would still crank and eventually fire - if there was sufficient juice. the other option is to put in gear and rock backwards and forwards, i do appreciate it is heavy! but may be possible if on the level.
> 
> simon


Why does this work? We have to do the same to our occasionally. What’s the issue that it’s solving by rocking it back and forward?


----------



## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

The earlier starters had a throwout Bendix.
The inertia of the motor spinning up throws the drive gear into the fly wheel. When the flywheel speed goes above the starter motor the gear retracts back in.
Sometimes the gear gets stuck into the flywheel. It then can't start as the motor can't get spinning first.
Rocking back and forth frees the gear and let's it retract back ready to be started.


----------



## welsh_petal (3 mo ago)

Pat-H said:


> The earlier starters had a throwout Bendix. The inertia of the motor spinning up throws the drive gear into the fly wheel. When the flywheel speed goes above the starter motor the gear retracts back in. Sometimes the gear gets stuck into the flywheel. It then can't start as the motor can't get spinning first. Rocking back and forth frees the gear and let's it retract back ready to be started.


 Wow thank you so much for explaining this. It’s an issue we’ve been rocking for a while haha what a permanent fix for this? thanks again! P


----------



## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Welcome Welsh Petal.........don't they warn you when you first join the site that to restart a thread that is 12 years old may mean that you do not get an up to date answer.
Or that other posters may be suspicious as to why you do not start a new thread, both to introduce yourself ...like I started off with welcome and then to ask your own question.


----------



## welsh_petal (3 mo ago)

Webby1 said:


> Welcome Welsh Petal.........don't they warn you when you first join the site that to restart a thread that is 12 years old may mean that you do not get an up to date answer.
> Or that other posters may be suspicious as to why you do not start a new thread, both to introduce yourself ...like I started off with welcome and then to ask your own question.


Sorry terrible etiquette, I’ve never used a forum like this before. I had a wonderful answer from Pat though which has already answered my question and so much more. Sorry again.


----------



## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

The Bendix on the starter motor and or the flywheel teeth could be worn. A new starter motor fixes the Bendix. A new toothed ring on the flywheel is more complex and expensive.
A week starter motor also doesn't help as the weaker motor will tend to jam and not turn the engine so easily.
A weak vehicle battery (or one with a cranking current too low can also be a cause)
The solenoid (a high current switch that is triggered by 12v from the key turn and shorts the battery power to the starter) can also get arc'd up inside and cause resistance to the power flow (it will tend to get hot quickly if that's happening)


----------



## welsh_petal (3 mo ago)

Pat-H said:


> The Bendix on the starter motor and or the flywheel teeth could be worn. A new starter motor fixes the Bendix. A new toothed ring on the flywheel is more complex and expensive.
> A week starter motor also doesn't help as the weaker motor will tend to jam and not turn the engine so easily.
> A weak vehicle battery (or one with a cranking current too low can also be a cause)
> The solenoid (a high current switch that is triggered by 12v from the key turn and shorts the battery power to the starter) can also get arc'd up inside and cause resistance to the power flow (it will tend to get hot quickly if that's happening)


Thank you so much for all this information. I will pass it on to our mechanic friend who’s had a few attempts at fixing the issue with no joy. I really appreciate the time you’ve taken Pat.


----------



## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

The other common issue can be the earthing straps. Ensure the battery to body earth strap is in good condition and well connected. (No rust or corrosion)
And there will be a braided earth strap between the engine block and body work which again needs to be sound.


----------



## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi Welsh Petal and welcome

Always good to have a fellow country person on board. Whereabouts are you? We are in Carmarthenshire.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

welsh_petal said:


> Sorry terrible etiquette, I’ve never used a forum like this before. I had a wonderful answer from Pat though which has already answered my question and so much more. Sorry again.


Don't worry about Webby Welsh Petal - he likes to rap newbies over the knuckles if they don't conform to his idea of forum etiquette but the rest of us are very welcoming! 

You may have to subscribe to have more than 5 posts, but it's a lifetime subscription. I hope you'll stick around.


----------



## Webby1 (Mar 11, 2012)

No she's right...................good job Sherlock isn't on the case.
Of course your are welcome and I am glad that Pat's answer was of help.
Do let us know were you are in Wales as there may be someone nearby who can help.


----------

