# Trailer for a smart car.



## cazbob (May 1, 2005)

Hi Folks, We are looking at buying our first motorhome next year, an american. So far our fave has been gulf stream bit still doing our research. We will want tow our smart car. I have found one company brain james trailes but £1,099 plus vat sounds way to much. Any comments.
Many Thanks
Caroline


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

I am no expert, so stand to be corrected. But I think you will find that is actually a very reasonable price for a new trailer.

I have seen the trailers Brian James produced at Daventry, and they are damm well built. I have towed some of the more commercial offerings they make too, and again brilliant.

There are other smart trailers around, like the ones Bantam produce..

http://www.bantamtrailers.co.uk/

The other option you have is to go the A frame route..

http://www.towtal.co.uk/aframe.asp

But there are many arguments "for" and "against" with an A frame.

Having mentioned that can of worms, I am running for cover :mrgreen:

Cheers


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Caroline, I agree with Wile, seems reasonable, or you could try ebay.. I found this one.

>>>Car Transporter<<<

Or on MHFs classifieds

>>>Smart Car Trailer for Sale<<<

Jim


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*Smart car*

Why not consider an A Frame? We have a Smart on an A no problems (as long as it is the semi auto gearbox model)


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi DJP

I don't want to rain on your parade but acording to this site towing a Smart on an A frame is illegal. Here is the extract:



> I have a motor home and want to tow a Fiat Seicento behind it using an A-frame. This car has a kerb weight under 750 kg so am I legal with this outfit? Sorry no is the answer. The law regards this as an unbraked trailer and you are allowed to tow up to 750 kg Gross Trailer Weight, not a car's kerb weight. The figure you have to use is the car's Gross Vehicle Weight or Maximum Permitted Weight. This is usually at least 300 - 400 kg more than the kerb weight. We have no knowledge of any car sold in the UK that has a GVW under 750 kg. The only vehicle we know that is completely legal to tow with an A-frame is the French Aixam small "car". This is a full four seater and details can be obtained from Aixam UK on 01926 886100. An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal.


I found this info here:

>>National Trailer Association<<

Jim


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## 89213 (May 16, 2005)

Try putting an A Frame on mine!

John


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Blimey Cazbob.... Could be your lucky day? 

Try looking at the classifieds on MHF, ad which reads.. 

SMART TRAILER FOR SALE


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Giok said:


> Try putting an A Frame on mine!
> 
> John


Dude.. no problem. Have hammer and chisel.. when you in


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

You can tow a Smart on an A Frame, the 750kg refers to unbraked towing,
I tow a Smart on an A Frame with a Brake Buddy in the car to work the brakes,
all perfectly legal as it is classed as a braked trailer.

Eddie


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## 89331 (May 19, 2005)

when the engine is not running the servo does not operate 100%. so what is the point of using a braked A frame ????


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

The Brake Buddy is Air Powered via a built in air compressor, In use it works so well you can slow your motorhome down with the towed vehicle if you adjust the unit to do this.
Eddie

  

ps: I dont do this, but it demonstrates the Power of the Brake Buddy.


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

rapido said:


> The Brake Buddy is Air Powered via a built in air compressor, In use it works so well you can slow your motorhome down with the towed vehicle if you adjust the unit to do this.


Hi Rapido 
I have no doubt the 'Brake Buddy' works well but I am still puzzled about this, I have read on several sites about A frames and all say that this set up ( an A frame braked trailer over 750 GVW) doesn't conform to European Directive 71/320/EEC and is still illegal. 
Have you any information which could clear this up.. I have tried to read the aforementioned directive and I'm still clueless :? It's all very confusing. ..

>>Towing Behind A Motorhome<<


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

Hi Jim try this page it has loads of info.

Towtal

Eddie


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

starline said:


> when the engine is not running the servo does not operate 100%. so what is the point of using a braked A frame ????


On a trailer weighing more than 750Kgms it is a legal requirement. A car over 750kgms on an A Frame constitutes a trailer and must be braked. Recent tests claim that even with out servo assistance, braking forces of a car on an A Frame are well within legal requirements for a trailer.

peedee


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Eddie 

Thanks for the info, interesting site.. soo much conflicting info out there it's no wonder there's confusion.. 
As a comparison, is an A frame and Brake Buddy cheaper than a 4 wheel trailer. If not do what do you feel is the advantage? 

Jim


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

See - I am glad I ran for cover :mrgreen:


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

wilecoyote said:


> See - I am glad I ran for cover :mrgreen:


 :lol: :lol: They don't call you the *wilecoyote* for nothing :wink:


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

ScotJimland said:


> what do you feel is the advantage?


With a motorhome and two cars on our driveway, the advantage for us is not having to squeeze in a trailer too 8O

Likewise, on site.. you don't have to store a motorhome, a trailer and a car on the pitch.

Some sites may charge you extra for the "trailer", but not with just a car.

I feel this is because usual prices are based around 1 car + 1 unit, be it caravan + car or motorhome + car.

But as soon as you req a third parking space (the trailer), then they may well charge you.


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## Road_Runner_644 (May 9, 2005)

Hi All

I can't imagine having to store a trailor, even a folding one would be a pain. I recently got our 2 trailers ebayed off as they just sat around most of the time.

I can assure you that the brakes on my braked A-Framed Diahatsu Hijet work very well. In fact too much mucking about caused me to wear the front discs out on our last trip. 

I dunno what others think, but the perfect setting for the brakes seems to be for them to be just applying as the overun hitch thing bottoms out. Any tighter than that, and the brakes are on and off all the time, even under light braking from the motorhome.

The servo question is a bit of a red herring, as an overun system can put far more pressure on the brake pedal than you would with your foot.

I'm perfectly happy that my setup is legally a braked trailer when being towed, the brakes operate, and could easily be tightened up to operate more heavily. In reality however, the brakes don't need to be highly effective as I'm pulling a little Sooty van with a 3.5 ton Van.

Dave


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## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Cazbob,
We have a bantam trailer (made by Brian James) and cannot speak too highly of it. 
It runs straight and true, is perfectly balanced with the Smart onboard and you wouldn't know it was there.
The price quoted is very reasonable for a new one. However I have seen many for sale in the classified in MMM etc.
If you want to see ours being used under extreme conditions, visit our photo album.
regards
bob


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

ScotJimland said:


> Hi Eddie
> 
> As a comparison, is an A frame and Brake Buddy cheaper than a 4 wheel trailer. If not do what do you feel is the advantage?
> 
> Jim


Cost wise I think a trailer will cost you more than a braked A Frame without the brake buddy. I agree with Road Runner, Dave. Certainly on my set up a brake buddy is unnecessary and if you believe this to be the case with a Smart then save yourself the cost of a brake buddy which is expensive. (about £600?)

The big advantage of the A Frame is ease of handling and no storage space required, also don't forget trailers are also prone to theft so you will also need to buy security devices but even these will not stop a determined thief.

Perhaps the advantage of a trailer is you can tow the car on the continent in complete cofidence that you are within the law.

peedee


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

another consideration for me was reversing with a trailer and some practise not a problem but I suspect with a A frame maybe if everything is lined up you could reverse a short distance in a straight line?

With respect to A frames abroad I met a chap with a Hobby and a smart on a A frame at Shepton a few weeks ago, he had completed some 6000 miles around europe without any problems with the police. However I think if I went this route confirmation from my insurance that if anything went wrong I was covered.


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

[quote="takeaflight"However I think if I went this route confirmation from my insurance that if anything went wrong I was covered.[/quote]

Comfort insurance cover A framed cars as standard on their policies. I telephone Comfort to double check with mine, and they said no problem.

However, as soon as the car is unhitched from the motorhome, then your back on the car insurance. of course.

The latter might sound obvious, but there is a consideration here. If you are driving along towing the car, and it accidentally unhitches.... then the damage that car may do running into something etc is down to the car policy, not the Motorhome, despite no driver. (Heh can you imagine filling the claim form in for that one).

Anyway it is most defiantly worth checking with the car insurer. For starters you have modified the car, by adding the A frame. The will want to know about that. Secondly, you will perhaps find they will be happy about the insurance when towing, so long as it is fully comp and not TPF&T.

In the event of an accidental un-hitch, In my opinion, this is where a brake buddy would be an excellent addition. As soon as that brake away cable is no more.. the brake buddy would apply the brakes fully on the car , thus bringing it to a quick and safe stop.

However, should a trailer with a car on it become detached, I am not sure it would stop so quickly ;-)


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

wilecoyote said:


> In the event of an accidental un-hitch, In my opinion, this is where a brake buddy would be an excellent addition. As soon as that brake away cable is no more.. the brake buddy would apply the brakes fully on the car , thus bringing it to a quick and safe stop.
> 
> However, should a trailer with a car on it become detached, I am not sure it would stop so quickly ;-)


The A Frame I have will also apply the car brakes should the car become unhitched on the move. The breakaway cable then operates the brakes as the van and car part company. The frame is basically the front end of a caravan frame. Is this not standard safety feature on all trailers by law these days?

peedee


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Peedee.. true, but a brake buddy is like having a humanoid sitting in the drivers seat 

Now should an unhitch happen..

the humanoid (brake buddy) $h!*s itself, panics and presses the brake pedal through the floor.. much like you would in the same senario :lol:


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

We have a Bantam Trailer for a Smart car and it is an excellent trailer. I have met Brian James personsally and he is a lovely guy - give him a ring and he will advise you and sometimes he even has second hand ones that he has bought back off customers. We bought the top of the range one off him and it was one he had bought back from a chap who had never actually used it, the tie down straps were still in the pack. We saved a considerable amount of money and got an absolute bargain. 
One thing to remember is that by towing your Smart car with a Bantam trailer, which Brian James purposely designed for towing a Smart , you are not actually putting miles on your clock are you? With an A frame or a brake buddy you are.

Sonesta


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Sonesta said:


> With an A frame or a brake buddy you are.
> 
> Sonesta


Are you with a smart ??

I thought they were digital and required the engine to be running?

Just asking, as I don't own one


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

> Thanks for the info, interesting site.. soo much conflicting info out there it's no wonder there's confusion..
> As a comparison, is an A frame and Brake Buddy cheaper than a 4 wheel trailer. If not do what do you feel is the advantage?


Hi Jim, The cost is about the same, the advantage to me as I have changed from a Trailer to the A Frame is it is a lot easier to use, no heavy work, and no parking and security for a Trailer.
I also have Health problems which made the Trailer unusable for me.

Eddie


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*A Smart A frame*



> With respect to A frames abroad I met a chap with a Hobby and a smart on a A frame at Shepton a few weeks ago, he had completed some 6000 miles around europe without any problems with the police. However I think if I went this route confirmation from my insurance that if anything went wrong I was covered.


We have just come back from 3 weeks 2,400 miles around France/Spain/Andorra without any problems whatsoever, Lots of strange looks, smiles and laughs, but no hassle.
We asked both the MH insurers and Smart insurers before bying the Smart about towing on A frame in UK and Europe. No problem, no additional premiums NO question about legality. 
I accept the ruling on 750kg nett or gross but if the Smart is allways towed empty (+80% fluids) then it falls under 750kg and if stopped I would ask to be taken to nearest weighbridge to show my trailer was under the 750kg max. SO what can I be prosecuted for? I had an Audi TT capable of 155mph, the fact I did not exceed the legal speed limit :lol: excluded me from being prosecuted from speeding although the car was capable of more. 
That concludes my argument for the defence.
BTW I posted questions on numerous forums, This one, ano MH forum, 3 Smart car related forums and others, I asked one simple question;-
Do you know, personally ANYBODY who has been prosecuted for towing a SMART car on an A frame, NOT your great uncles brother in law 17 times removed knew someone had said in the pub, but do YOU know personally anyone. The question raised all the debates and arguments for and against as we are discussing now (on this hi-jacked topic, for which I apologise)
How many people said they personally knew someone.........................................
0 NIL ZERO
So we went ahead and bought one!


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

*Re: A Smart A frame*

[quote="DJPWe have just come back from 3 weeks 2,400 miles around France/Spain/Andorra without any problems whatsoever, Lots of strange looks, smiles and laughs, but no hassle.[/quote]

As a matter of interest how were you charged on the ferry please? I have never taken my tow car on the continent and have never really missed it. Just had 4 weeks touring in this country and never took it then either, just picked my stops with some thought and then relied on shank's pony or public transport. However it is usefull when you know you are going to be out in the sticks and stopped in one place for some time.

peedee


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*Ferry*

We booked Dover Calais in January last year for a car and caravan. (pre MH days) The cost was £150'ish. When we sold the caravan and ammended booking to JUST MH, after fee for changing we got £45 'ish back. Great!
The combined length of 4x4 + caravan was 12 mtrs. When I phoned later to amend booking again I had to pay another £90 'ish :evil: But they tell me this was due to booking terms and offers. For next year I will consider Norfolk Ferries booking enquiry for MH plus Trailer then for MH and a SEPERATE car and see what happens.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Thanks the reason I asked was that if you book through the CC on sailings where the caravan goes free, it is rumoured trailers can also go free including cars on A Frames. I don't see why this should not be the case! I am considering towing to Germany next year. Is this true, has any one done it or even tried to do it and what did the CC say?

peedee


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## cazbob (May 1, 2005)

*smart trailer*

Thank you all for your replys.
It looks like we will go with a A frame . All we need know is the motorhome. We have a few vehicles to sell first, and get the house in order. But next year we will be getting our fisrt motorhome and taking 2 years out to travel. We just can't wait. Bye for now.
Caroline and Bob


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