# Passport stamp colour.



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

A quick reminder. This has been posted before, but in case anybody didn't know or forgets I thought I repeat it.

We encountered this problem a few years ago when the pet passport people had quite a discussion about whether they let our dogs enter the UK. They eventually did but warned us that if it happened again they'd refuse.

I've just been to a vet here in Spain to have my dogs rabies booster vaccination done. I was with a Spanish friend and he went first. I noticed that the vet stamped his vaccination record with a black stamp. I remembered reading here and subsequently looking it up that the regulations, in the UK at least say the stamps must be any colour other than black. I asked the vet if he had another colour of stamp and explained why. He told me they only had black, had always used black and that they'd done loads of pet passports for English people in black and never had a problem.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Black can be copied in a forgery so it is not supposed to be used. It is clearly stated in the "notes to vets" that this is the case. 


New passports are the same. If you vet fills out a new passport for your dog it must be stamped in any other colour than black.


Our vets are making people double appointments when they come in for new pet passports as the rules have become more complicated. And our practice, unlike many, allocate 15 minutes to each appointment.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes. I didn't say so but obviously I didn't let him go ahead and will find a different vet who doesn't use a black stamp.


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## nickoff (Oct 11, 2005)

You learn something every day, thanks for that. Just took a look at Rosie's passport that was stamped at our local vets here in the U.K. and yes it is stamped in red. The vets stamp for her check up before returning from France is in black but of coarse that's not for rabies.

Nick.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

Maybe time to carry a red ink stamp block.:smile2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I couldn't be sure when discussing it with that vet. I was practically certain that it was any colour other than black, but he said it had to be black. We need to be careful. Last time we fell foul of it there was quite a discussion between the people at the pet passport office before the agreed to let our dog travel. Obviously if the dog couldn't travel neither would we. It would have been quite a problem.

On the forgery thing. Anybody can order a rubber stamp with whatever wording they want online and it'll come with any colour of ink you ask for. I can't see how this helps in the slightest way to avoid forgeries. What would be very difficult to forge is the little sticker which comes off the vaccination phial and is stuck on to the passport. You'd have to be able to buy or steal the vaccine to get one. Since you'd then have the vaccine what point would there be in not administering it? To me the ink colour rule is just plain stupid. It's a trap for those who don't know about it and serves no useful purpose. Perhaps someone will explain in what it's necessary if they disagree.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Also, I believe, the vet has to sign over top the stamp in black ink only.


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## chasper (Apr 20, 2008)

I meant the stamp pad not an actual stamp for forgeries!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes. I understood that chasper. I wondered about that but given that their stamps are generally of the pre-inked type I wondered, even if you could get them to clean the black off the stamp, whether it would be sufficiently well cleaned so that you didn't end up with a bit of black along with the other colour. If you did it might look a right botch and attract suspicion.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

If the stamp was done in black ink it would be easier to make a copy of it. I think that is the only reason. It is not a foolproof system just something to make life a bit more difficult for forgers.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I don´t get this, I thought the important thing was the number on the chip matching the passport.
Jan

I have just checked ours, all stamps are black, nobody has ever questioned it when we went through.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Black can be copied in a forgery so it is not supposed to be used. It is clearly stated in the "notes to vets" that this is the case.
> 
> New passports are the same. If you vet fills out a new passport for your dog it must be stamped in any other colour than black.
> Our vets are making people double appointments when they come in for new pet passports as *the rules have become more complicated.* And our practice, unlike many, allocate 15 minutes to each appointment.


I thought it had become simpler, only needing the up to date passport vaccinations and for the dog to be wormed within a certain time before entering the check in. 
Just in case we do decide to make another visit, what has altered ?
Jan


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I will check as I am coming to the UK next month, may well take a coloured stamp pad to the Vet "just in case", we have never had a problem so far..... but of course, there is always a first = an awkward berger who wants to make a point......

Thanks for the heads-up, I was NOT aware of that rule...

Dave


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Penquin said:


> I will check as I am coming to the UK next month, may well take a coloured stamp pad to the Vet "just in case", we have never had a problem so far..... but of course, there is always a first = an awkward berger who wants to make a point......
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up, I was NOT aware of that rule...
> 
> Dave


Normal vaccinations are in black. It's only the anti-rabies jabs that are in a different colour.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

What do you mean normal vaccinations ? the rabies jab is just one of a mixture our dogs have had.
Jan


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

JanHank said:


> What do you mean normal vaccinations ? the rabies jab is just one of a mixture our dogs have had.
> Jan


Parvo, kennel cough, heart worm etc. Any other annual jab.But not rabies which is a bi/tri-annual treatment for UK animals. 
Of course your dogs are European so most probably fall into the annual rabies jab which may make a difference.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Read section 5.1 here: http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/external-operations-admin/library/documents/exports/ET139.pdf

That is a UK Govt issued document. Please just accept it.

I will say though that I spent several hours today trying to find the same information on Spanish Government web sites and couldn't. It may be that the Brits have enhanced the requirements. Similarly I didn't see that requirement in any EU issued document, though I didn't spend a lot of time looking for that since the important thing for those of us taking pets into the UK is what the UK insists on.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Ah - all becomes clear. It is to stop someone copying the OV (Official Veterinarian)'s signature and stamp and transposing it on to another passport. Having worked in a vet's I know the stamp is personal to each vet and kept safe. And woe betide if the red stamp pad could not be found!


I do remember reading of someone who was refused entry because black ink was used.


It all seems a bit silly though as surely the passport officials cannot recognise each individual signature? This means anyone who could nick a stamp or have one made up, could forge passports. Well we know it is happening en mass because of all those poor underage puppies being brought over from Eastern Europe and sold to the unsuspecting public here. Ireland too but not sure they check passports anyway.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Spacerunner said:


> Parvo, kennel cough, heart worm etc. Any other annual jab.But not rabies which is a bi/tri-annual treatment for UK animals.
> Of course *your dogs are European *so most probably fall into the annual rabies jab which may make a difference.


Oh, but surely so are yours, your not in Asia or Africa your in Europe.
Sorry. but it always gets my goat, the UK is a European country and you can never change that.
Padantic Jan > or probably with Gertrudes hat on :wink2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Read section 5.1 here: http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/external-operations-admin/library/documents/exports/ET139.pdf
> 
> That is a UK Govt issued document. Please just accept it.
> 
> I will say though that I spent several hours today trying to find the same information on Spanish Government web sites and couldn't. It may be that the Brits have enhanced the requirements. Similarly I didn't see that requirement in any EU issued document, though I didn't spend a lot of time looking for that since the important thing for those of us taking pets into the UK is what the UK insists on.


Blimey Alan, you have to have patients to read that lot, I skimmed through, but saw nothing about red stamp so gave up. As we have no plan to return I won´t worry.:laugh:
Jan


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

5.1 the last sentence Jan. It is a paragraph containing two short sentences and I directed people to 5.1.

Anyway to save you a few seconds scrolling down the page here's what it says, *"The passport must be signed and
stamped with the OV stamp in any ink colour other than black."*

I read that as meaning that black is out but that any other colour will do.

Now tell me you were winding me up please.

BTW. I've given up the doctoring and so have no patients at all.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> 5.1 the last sentence Jan. It is a paragraph containing two short sentences and I directed people to 5.1.
> 
> Anyway to save you a few seconds scrolling down the page here's what it says, *"The passport must be signed and
> stamped with the OV stamp in any ink colour other than black."*
> ...


Oh shudup, I always spell it wrong :grin2: is the another word I can use instead ? :serious:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

JanHank said:


> Oh, but surely so are yours, your not in Asia or Africa your in Europe.
> Sorry. but it always gets my goat, the UK is a European country and you can never change that.
> Padantic Jan > or probably with Gertrudes hat on :wink2:


My mistook, should have said the European rabid region! >


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Spacerunner said:


> My mistook, should have said the European rabid region! >


Not in this country,

Several countries in Europe have been designated *rabies-free *jurisdictions: *Austria, United Kingdom,* Ireland, Belgium, the *Netherlands*, Luxembourg, *France*, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, Spain, *Greece*, *Malta*, *Germany,* *Denmark*, *Norway*, *Sweden*, *Finland*, Latvia, Estonia, *Czech Republic*, and *Iceland*.

When looking at the list I wonder why the UK are making such a fuss, another of their idiosyncracies what what.
Jan


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

JanHank said:


> Not in this country,
> 
> Several countries in Europe have been designated *rabies-free *jurisdictions: *Austria, United Kingdom,* Ireland, Belgium, the *Netherlands*, Luxembourg, *France*, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, Spain, *Greece*, *Malta*, *Germany,* *Denmark*, *Norway*, *Sweden*, *Finland*, Latvia, Estonia, *Czech Republic*, and *Iceland*.
> 
> ...


It's because we're different. Vive la difference! To coin a phrase. :laugh


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Spacerunner said:


> It's because we're different. Vive la difference! To coin a phrase. :laugh


That's what the vet here said too. In essence.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Different money, different side of the road, different shambles.>


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## nickoff (Oct 11, 2005)

When we returned home from Australia ( rabies free ) in the nineties we also brought our dog and cat with us. Now that was an expensive exercise. The air fare and transfers alone cost as much as our fares. Then they both had to be quarantined for six months :frown2: Its a good job we don't have to go through all that nowadays.

Nick.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The brand of Rabies vaccination used is the reason it is tri annual in the uk. I think we use Nobivac (well it was the last dog I had done) and they say that it lasts for 3 years. Defra initially asked for annual boosters but someone fought them on it and won. They had to leave it to the individual vet to put when the next booster is used. As Nobivac state it is effective for three years then that is what the vet writes on the passport.
Not sure what brand is used in the other European countries. There was a rumour that some countries ignore the scientific data that says Nobivac lasts for three years and still insist on annual/biannual boosters. So, if you move to another country for longer than six months you need to check the regulations there. Of course they should follow the advice of the administering veterinary surgeon as he is the expert on that particular dog and the drug that has been administered.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Nobivac here in Spain too, till last time when it was Eurican. Looking back through the passports it's annual here.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

That is interesting. It started out annually here but I am sure that someone fought the case and won. If the drug company selling the vaccine is happy to sell it every three years rather than every year then I am sure it lasts three years.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> That is interesting. It started out annually here but I am sure that someone fought the case and won. If the drug company selling the vaccine is happy to sell it every three years rather than every year then I am sure it lasts three years.


In the beginning 2000, the vaccine was good for 2 years, but had to be administered (blimey>) every year. Our vet didn't like doing it, but it was a must to allow the dogs back into the country.

Jan


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It was, I read somewhere, the editor of the Daily Mail that started the whole process of our dogs having passports. They wanted to be able to travel with their dog. They promised to support a political party if that party undertook, if elected, to bring in Pet Passports. Lo and behold that party won the election and Pet Passports duly arrived.
Would it be cynical of me to think that a similar thing has happened with the annual v tri annual boosters? Someone with influence put pressure on the right people? I, personally, am glad it happened. No one wants their dog to have annual boosters when they are not clinically necessary.


I wonder if the Spanish authorities think that annual boosters give the dog a better immunity than a tri annual one? The dog is, of course, either immune or it isn't. It would be better to titre test as we used to do in the old days, to see if the dog's immunity was at optimal levels.


One of my dogs failed the old, required, titre test and had to have second dose of the rabies vaccine and a second titre test. She was a young fit dog. The old boy passed the titre test. It amazes me that they gave up on the titre testing. From memory it was because it was against EU regulations to make us Brits titre test our dogs while other EU citizens were able to travel around Europe without having the test done.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> It was, I read somewhere, the editor of the Daily Mail that started the whole process of our dogs having passports. They wanted to be able to travel with their dog. They promised to support a political party if that party undertook, if elected, to bring in Pet Passports. Lo and behold that party won the election and Pet Passports duly arrived.
> Would it be cynical of me to think that a similar thing has happened with the annual v tri annual boosters? Someone with influence put pressure on the right people? I, personally, am glad it happened. No one wants their dog to have annual boosters when they are not clinically necessary.
> 
> I wonder if the Spanish authorities think that annual boosters give the dog a better immunity than a tri annual one? The dog is, of course, either immune or it isn't. It would be better to titre test as we used to do in the old days, to see if the dog's immunity was at optimal levels.
> ...


I thought Chris Patten the last govenor of Hong Kong had something to do with it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/197051.stm
Jan


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

He was, obviously, supporting the campaign and thank goodness he and others did or we might all be confined to Blighty with our pooches.


Now they all need to campaign to stop the import of all those under age puppies with false passports


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

If you have a dog (or take any kind of pet on your travels) avoid Iceland!

http://icelandinpictures.com/post/5670737648/why-are-dogs-banned-in-reykjavik-or-are-they


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Who wants to go to Iceland, not me. I suppose a lot of you do though for your frozen veg etc.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

LOL.

It's one of the few places I'd like to go back to, but I certainly wouldn't take my own m/home on those roads.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I wonder what made them bring in those rules? Perhaps someone important went for a walk in Reykjavik and got molested by a dog?


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