# Non existant cycle insurance



## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

I have received a PM this morning from a member who has had their electric bikes stolen from the back of their motorhome.

The insurance company refused to pay up because the "the bikes were not fastened to an imoveable object"

I have checked my insurance - the bikes are specified on the House/contents policy through the Derbyshire BS - the policy is with Royal sun Alliance - and they confirm that the bikes ARE NOT Covered whilst fastened to the motorhome. They would not be moved on this stance and suggested that I contact my motorhome insurer.

I have just spoken to Steve at Comfort, and the bikes are definitely not covered, and can't be covered, on the motorhome policy.

Any body with a solution?


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Geoff,
I have probably been trying to help the same member.
My bikes have been insured for years as "away from home cover" with house insurance.
They are always fastened to mh with motorcycle insurance aproved chains and locks.


Daughter is not at work today, shopping at Meadowhell with Lady p.

If bikes are only insured whilst fastened to an imovable object there seems to be no use in having and paying for cover.

When Kerry returns I will ask her to advise a company that will cover bikes fastened to MH with aproved locks.

Seems we may have been paying for nothing.

DAve p


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Dave

I even mentioned the strikeback, and how the bikes are attached to a CAT 1 alarm, but the were very positive, definitely "NO Cover" whilst attached to the motorhome


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

No solution Geoff, but I can confirm your fears.

Mrs Zeb fell off her bike in France and bent both it and herself, neither too seriously I'm relieved to say. 

Details unimportant, but the insurance company refused to pay for the bike repairs . . . . . . . *because she was riding it at the time*!!! 8O

_(If she had left it by the roadside to go into (say) a cafe and a lorry had squashed it, they would have paid out, or if it had been pinched.)_

Who would ever dream of that exclusion!! It's like insuring your car, but if you run into someone or something you are not insured because you were driving it at the time. 8O 8O

Your post has reminded me to phone the insurers with a few pointed questions. 8O

Thanks

Dave


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

try this

www.cycleguard.co.uk/ElectricBike Security requirements

Requirements when the bicycle is in or on a vehicle

Theft
Bicycles will only be covered when:

All doors and windows are left closed and locked 
Theft occurred by forcible and violent entry

*The bicycle is stored out of sight, or is secured through the frame using an approved lock, to the roof or bike rack *
All security devices installed in the vehicle are in operation 
The vehicle used is completely road legal 
All windows and locks are capable of totally securing the vehicle. 
If a bicycle is left between 9pm and 6am
In addition to the requirements above:

The vehicle must be fitted with a Thatcham category 1 alarm/immobiliser or 
Category 2 immobiliser or 
Category 3 steering lock 
If the category 1 or 2 device is not factory fitted, it must have been installed by a member of the Vehicle Security Installation Board

Further into policy description it does state that the bikes must be secured to an immovable object, but as i have highlighted above they say that the bike must be secured through the frame to a vehicle bike rack or roof rack.

Give them a call.

dave p


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

My brother left his bikes locked up at a station,fastened securely to an imoveable bike rack, in southern France to take a train to Monaco. When they returned, the bikes had gone, just the cut chains on the floor.
The insurance company refused to pay up because he was using public transport at the time they were stolen 8O 

I have just rechecked the exclusions on my policy.

The bikes ARE NOT covered if they are at home, but the house is unoccupied!! 8O 8O


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I think that it would be worthwhile querying this with the Insurance Ombudsman. My understanding of the purpose of this exclusion is so that the thief does not nick a movable object with the bikes attached. I do not believe that it is intended to cover this situation and it seems to me that the insurer is exploiting a loophole. If it was intended to exclude bikes attached to motorhomes, caravans, cars etc then I think the wording would have been far more precise.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I would have thought that a motorhome without keys and with an immobiliser and alarm activated constitutes an immovable object.


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

Spacerunner said:


> I would have thought that a motorhome without keys and with an immobiliser and alarm activated constitutes an immovable object.


That is exactly what I thought, but not according to the insurance company!

I spent some time argueing this point, and the guy went away to get a second opinion, but their definition is that a motorhome, for the purpose of cycle insurance "is not an immoveable object"


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

The conclusion seems to be to get really tatty old pushbikes that are not worth nicking. Or insuring.

SD


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Not a solution but I found getting cover for expensive cycles away from home to be very difficult and very, very expensive.

As I have expensive bikes I decided to get an M/H with a garage. Yes they are not insured but they are less likely to be stolen when out of site.

The best solution IMHO would be to spend money on very good locks, there are many very good locks out there that would take even a very well equipped thief a while to get around. But they are normally well over £100


Richard...


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would be inclined to write to the company asking for clarification as to what you were told. i.e ask them to define EXACTLY what an immovable object is !! If they then come back and say a MH is not an "immovable object" ask them to explain how they would propose it IS a "moveable object" whilst it was locked and secure and you have the immobiliser in your pocket??

If you are not 100% happy with the reply, which I suspect will be the case, you will first have to explore the route of making a formal complaint against the insurer and exhaust THAT process before the insurance ombudsman will look at the issue.

My view would be that the purpose of using the term "immovable object" is to ensure that any bike is secured TO something (such as a lamp post) rather than the lock "just" being through the wheel and frame. 

If it is just through the wheel and frame the bike could be carried off and the lock attacked at leisure by the thief !! (hence the rule)

To be fair the standard sort of bike rack (Fiamma etc) cannot really be viewed as being "secure" when it just slots onto (into) its mountings When I carried bikes I always chained them through the towbar assembly with a motorcycle type chain lock!!

Good luck and keep us all posted, just remember the insurance company do NOT want to pay out, so they will "try it on" just in case you give up and go away !!!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

SpeedyDux said:


> The conclusion seems to be to get really tatty old pushbikes that are not worth nicking. Or insuring.
> 
> SD


Good sense Speedy . . . except for two situations which spring to mind at once.

When Mrs Zeb fell off her "treader" we were on an 11 day cycling holiday, doing about 25 - 30km per day. Not a lot I admit, but enough to want our own good quality bikes which fit us.

Secondly, the likes of Geoff and myself (and our wives) have reached the stage where electric bikes are becoming almost essential.

I'm not one for "going legal" in any way, but it does seem like the Ombudsman could be approached over this one!

Dave


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi

I gave up on bike insurance years ago since it was such a huge proportion of the bikes value to not be worth it, so the house insurance will cover it in the house only.

They've always been well locked, and if on a car bike rack never left anywhere unattended. If I went on hols with them they would be covered over in the car.

If they are really posh bikes then something like the seatpost, stem or brakes wouldn't be locked and worth nicking, so inside or with me were the only options


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

I have had a claim met by the CIS for two cycles stolen from the rear of our motorhome under our House Contents policy, the limit was £1000 on each.

Another point to be careful off is that for some unknown reason the majority of insurers exclude electric cycles. I cannot understand this exclusion as many 'normal' cycles can be dearer than the electric types. Again, the CIS do not differentiate and cover up to £1000.

Ron


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Just google "electric bike insurance" and then give one or two a call

DAve p


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

ob1 said:


> I have had a claim met by the CIS for two cycles stolen from the rear of our motorhome under our House Contents policy, the limit was £1000 on each.
> 
> Another point to be careful off is that for some unknown reason the majority of insurers exclude electric cycles. I cannot understand this exclusion as many 'normal' cycles can be dearer than the electric types. Again, the CIS do not differentiate and cover up to £1000.
> 
> Ron


I also claimed for my sons bike through CIS home insurance,even though it was stolen away from the house they paid up with no quibbles,very good company to deal with 

I agree with whoever said that getting an older bike that is not so much of a target for thieves is preferable,(thanks Geoff  )

also if you have expensive bikes or electric bikes then it is essential to keep them out of sight,which is ok if you have a motorhome with a garage,I would never leave a valuable bike on a bike rack even if locked in place-out of sight,out of mind :wink:


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

wak44 also if you have expensive bikes or electric bikes then it is essential to keep them out of sight,which is ok if you have a motorhome with a garage,I would never leave a valuable bike on a bike rack even if locked in place-out of sight,out of mind 
................
And what do you do with them if you ride int a village and want to walk around, have a meal for instance.
Personaly I lock and chain them to a lamp post or fence if available.

dave p


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

Those of you who are thinking along the lines of 'bike insurance - not worth it due to exclusions', please think again - if only for one situation that all cyclists put to the back of their minds. All bicycle insurance policies that I've ever had include a death benefit clause. When the first Mrs jimmyd0g was killed when cycling to work 4 1/2 years ago the insurance paid many thousands of pounds. Morbid? All cyclists are aware that the roads can be dangerous places. Putting money ahead of emotion? Well the money came in handy for my youngish step-sons. So, whilst I sympathise with the o/p I would not personally give up on cycle insurance just in case the worst really did come to the worst & I was killed whilst riding.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

quote="DTPCHEMICALS"]
And what do you do with them if you ride int a village and want to walk around, have a meal for instance.
Personaly I lock and chain them to a lamp post or fence if available.
dave p[/quote]

Hi Dave,

and so do I,the point I was making is that expensive bikes are a target for thieves,I wouldn't feel confident in leaving a bike or electric bike worth several hundred pounds locked to a lamp post in a strange village for hours.

A determined and well organised thief can circumvent any security device if he has the motivation to do so.

That is why we have 2 s/hand bikes worth less than £100 for both of them,they still ride well,have 21 gears and are a pleasure to ride,but if they get stolen it's not the end of the world and hopefully the thief will have less motivation to steal them.


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

I have no intention of not having cycle insurance, but I am considering the best option to go forward from the situation that I am in.

At the moment my thoughts are, cancel the cycle cover with my home/contents policy and see what refund - if any - that I can get,

I have a quick quote from cycleguard of £115 for the 2 bikes and I intended to follow this up further, and if it covers my needs, I will probably take this option.

Also, I will write a letter to my current insurer to ensure that there is no misunderstanding on my part - I'm sure there isn't - and then maybe try the obudsman.

I'm sleeping on it tonight, and will decide tomorrow  

ps I'm pleased your happy with the bikes Steve


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

We have 2 electric bikes which are covered specifically on an extension to our contents policy (Nationwide) whilst away from home, also we use 2 locks obtained from Halfords which have £1500 cover each if bike is nicked whilst using this lock

A good tip is to remove the lower locating bolts on the bike rack and replace with a good lock replacing the bolts on each side, stops or hinders the little devils from removing the rack complete with bikes.
That does work on Fiamma racks but probably on Omnistor also

But if they want them they will get them

Chris


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## StAubyns (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Chris

our electric bikes are itemised specifically on an extension to our home insurance policy, but they are still not covered whilst attached to the motorhome.  

It is worth checking the exclusions if you haven't already done so.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Whilst at the Assen TT earlier in the year we rode our bikes from the campsite to the circuit. Locked the bikes to the barriers that were erected in triangles for the bike park.
I could not believe the number of dutch that did not lock up their bikes.

Dave p


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

We have old bikes so I hope no one would want them ..but I still put them back on the rack every night and lock them and we have a Strike-back alarm loop too .. we have not had anyone take ours yet but have been parked up next to folk who have had theirs nicked in the night. I take the trouble to lock them only because to have them stolen would be more inconvenient than costly.

So what to do about expensive and desirable bikes?

Does anyone remember a guy called Edward de Bono?

No, Ok .. well he is the guy who coined the term lateral thinking.

I like to lateral think and my, daft if you like, thoughts are to make the expensive bikes much less desirable by "distressing" them. Get a can of spay paint and make them look scruffy.

We did this to our sons bike when he was at Uni. I taped white tape around all of the frame tubes and forks which were black ..it looked a right mess, a bit like a bicycle zebra. It was only stolen once in three years :lol: and even then he managed to get it back really quickly as it was recognised by one of his friends left on the other side of the town outside another college.


Mike


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

I have heard an arguement (as in, discussion point) that says the tea leaves are more likely to take cheaper looking bikes because not only do they look cooler but, also, a hoodie (or similar) would stand out like a sore thumb riding an expensive road / racing bike.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

When attatched to the mh and parked remove the seats, or even a wheel if quick release.
Electric bikes always remove the batteries.

Dave p


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

jimmyd0g said:


> I have heard an arguement (as in, discussion point) that says the tea leaves are more likely to take cheaper looking bikes because not only do they look cooler but, also, a hoodie (or similar) would stand out like a sore thumb riding an expensive road / racing bike.


Hi Jimmy

I don't think they steal them to ride them unless they have missed the last bus home.

Mike


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## jimmyd0g (Oct 22, 2009)

spykal said:


> jimmyd0g said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard an arguement (as in, discussion point) that says the tea leaves are more likely to take cheaper looking bikes because not only do they look cooler but, also, a hoodie (or similar) would stand out like a sore thumb riding an expensive road / racing bike.
> ...


Don't want to drift too far from the o/p, but certainly around here most bikes are nicked to assist in other crimes (mugging, drug delivery, etc).


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

jimmyd0g said:


> spykal said:
> 
> 
> > jimmyd0g said:
> ...


Yes I can understand that but how many touring motorhomers park up in areas like you are describing. Staying safe and avoiding theft and similar problems is all to do with avoiding places like that.

Mike


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

StAubyns said:


> Hi Chris
> 
> our electric bikes are itemised specifically on an extension to our home insurance policy, but they are still not covered whilst attached to the motorhome.
> 
> It is worth checking the exclusions if you haven't already done so.


Geoff
Have gone through policy we have and no exclusions unless left unlocked and unattended, cover is European wide + upto 60 outside Europe it is the Nationwide BS Contents with cycle extensIon
Chris


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