# Is this still a Friendly Forum ???



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I've been thinking about this for some time, please feel free to tell me if I'm way off tack here but I don't think I am. And I'm sorry if I sound like a bloomin school teacher, I just need to get this off my chest.

I've been a member on here nearly from the start and it was always a joy to visit the forums with friendly banter and hardly any animosity or ill feeling, new members would introduce themselves and receive countless welcoming replies and be made to really genuinely feel part of a community.

I can't put my finger on it (well I can but I'll keep most of those views to myself) but over the past months I think the underlying tone on the forums is gradually deteriorating with regular arguments and bickering even after the recent events and the banning of a member.

Put it this way, my "forum friction alert" buzzer seems to be going off a lot more often than it used to!

I'm pretty sure a lot of our less vocal members are probably getting this vibe and are reluctant to post for fear of getting negative or sarcastic replies and feeling that their post might degenerate into an argument (debate?). I'm no expert on these things, perhaps it's because MHF is a victim of its own success, with such a large member base we are bound to attract more diverse characters and differences of opinion leading to more friction/differing views.

So, a plea from me. - I think it is time we all thought just a little bit more about what we type, especially us regular posters. Ask yourself this before pressing the submit button, will this post upset anyone? Am I being rude or offensive in any way? Could this post be taken the wrong way that I have intended? If the answer is yes to any of those, then take time out to reword it before you post. It costs nothing to be polite and courteous but it can do a lot of damage if you're not. I don't think i'm being a kiljoy here and I enjoy a bit of friendly banter as good as the next man but I think Friendly is the operative word here.
Finally (again), If you're not happy about something use the PM facility instead of having a public argument or tit for tat dissagreement in the forum, if you're still not happy, then contact a Moderator, (its out job, its what we do :wink .

The very ethos of MHF is that we are a FRIENDLY site. I just think its time we ALL worked a bit harder to keep it that way.

Happy Travels to you all.

Pete.


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

:lol: Works for me Peejay. Unless someone upsets me that is. :lol:


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## hymmi (May 9, 2005)

Hi peejay,

Absolutely...........spot on................as can be seen by the loss of a few fantastic contributors to the site,think they just got fed up with it.

I have been around for a while too and seen it happening only over the last few months,and have been on the receiving end of it too.

As someone pm'd me and said,they would not dare speak like this to you face to face.....................that is for sure.

Perhaps the mods could pm these people when they start,i don't think it is right that we just ignore them and hope they will go away because they won't they just get worse.....................


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Pete,

More like a fully flowering Schoolteacher!

I do agree with you, although I visit the forum too frequently, I do not come away with the same feelings as I used too. A bit of banter is fine, but at times it does not know when to stop.

A lot of threads somehow get turned away from their original 'content' and often some of the postings become irrelevant.

It used to be helping old and new members most of the time with answers to technical and operational problems, now this side has somewhat reduced and we have a number of threads which are not connected to MH's and the number increasing. This can make it difficult to keep track of some topics on the Home page.

Yes we may slightly losing the original vibes but perhaps things will gradually change. 

In conclusion I recommended the site to a very good friend of mine, his comment the next time I saw him was, "I thought you said it was a Motor Home site it seems to have at least 50% of nothing to do with Motor Homes...."

Perhaps it is just a phase we are going through.

John


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I think you may have a pont PJ although as regards to New members welcome I have deliberately cut down my welcomes because there was a time when it appeared to be seen as simply trying to up your post count in an effort to become a Mason or something. I also think that because from time to time we discuss contentious matters much more than before such as politics then I suspect certain issues will wind us up and in consequence our postings may be sharper than they otherwise would. For me of course, I have found many postings on current affairs sort of thing very entertaining and eye opening on some subjects. I am not too sure whether it would be possible to marry happiness with strong views.

Speaking for myself but only because the missus is out I would say the site would be less interesting for me if contentious matters were not discussed. But accept that members logging on for motorhome stuff my be miffed at some of the non motorhome stuff but then again, the subject is normally clearly marked as regards topic so it is avoidable if one wishes to do that.

In summary, I do not know what the answer is but accept the point you have made because it is a statement of fact but equally I am not too sure I want to go back to only "safe" subjects which would mean I visited the site only when I need to know how to change a wheel.


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## MOTORHOMER (May 9, 2005)

Hello 


I too have been on the receiving end for no reason that I could see from my post at the time. I did send a PM at the time but no response.


Motorhomer


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## 89202 (May 16, 2005)

Hi,

I post in 4 or 5 different mh. forum but especially in the french forum CCI.

Last year our webmaster must excluded 3 members...and remember you have nearly 8.000, on CCI only 1700...

We have also the same problems, but we must live with them...

with kind regards,

duc


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## 95603 (Jul 1, 2005)

Hello Peejay,

Relatively new to this forum but totally agree with all you say. My ethos is simple and agrees with the posting by Hymmi. I do not post any comment that I would not be willing to say to someone face to face. The position on this forum seems no worse than other forums I have contributed to. At least I have not been told I know nothing and am a Sun Reader :evil: 

Cannot help feeling that the ability to post on almost any subject is a dead cert for the occasional insulting comment. Some subjects like race, religion, politics generate strong feelings. Best to stay away from these subjects and concentrate on matters related to Motorhomes. Have noticed that there are far more postings to Off Topic than technical questions. 

OK so someone is now going to disagree with that and call me an idiot!! :lol: 

Regards,

Mike.


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Peejay

I got to say I think your original posting on this thread is the most sensible comment I’ve seen here in a very long time, I have myself been guilty of not expressing my thoughts correctly in the past and it has been taken in a way not intended ( my fault possibly) but was jumped on very quickly with a few choice remarks and yes it stopped my postings for a long while.

On the other hand I recently made a posting with no adverse comments at all that I thought might be helpful to others and what happens, another argument occurs so what does one do, write nothing or carry on and be the but of others bad manners?

I do agree with all you say.

Ken S.


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I totally agree with PJ and others, When I first joined this site a long time ago I always tried to give sensible, straightforward replies to questions, often technical but generally in areas of my experience and expertise. It seemed though that after the big crash in May any time I and others tried to give such answers we were criticized with sarcastic remarks so I and many others I'm sure stopped posting for a time. On more than one occasion I have said to myself 'right that's it never again' but as it is so addictive one starts reading the posts again after a time and then when people ask for help you start posting again, gingerly at first hoping that the information or advice posted will be taken as it was intended.
In the Off Topic forum there is a lot of light friendly banter going on and I follow most for amusement and occasionally have tried to put in a humorous ( to me anyway ) comment. 
Let us all try to get it back to the friendly informative site that it was 6 months or so ago.


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## 96088 (Aug 22, 2005)

Totally agree with Peejay's tips for posting, especially the stop and read first advice.

I post on several other sites (not MH sites) and I have found this to be one of the most freindly ones I have come across.

I would caution against too much trying to analyise the rights and wrongs of what may have happend in the past. Lest this thread turns out to be another example of what you are trying to get away from.

Move on, have fun and let bygones be bygones. :grouphuuug:


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Hi Pete 

I agree with your comments and observations, the site is growing up, no longer a cosy number but now a large group with many diverse opinions and characters. 
It's all about numbers now and not quality and while this may be good for nuke and advertising income I don't think it makes for a good forum. I have commented about using subs to control the membership but that was rejected, it was argued that we need fresh blood to keep the forum alive, new members , new ideas etc. 
It's not so much a motorhome forum anymore.. but a general discussion forum with members who happen to drive motorhomes. 
Perhaps some of the oldies are tired of answering the same old questions from newbies and now find off topic more enjoyable ? I have seen comments that were less than friendly toward newbies.. personally I always try and answer politely when I think I can help, I certainly don't interject with a crass comment.


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## 96105 (Aug 23, 2005)

*agree*

hi peejay

Totally agree with all you and others have said =D> =D> 
i have been on other forums and watch them be messed up
by petty nit picking, which we can all sink to :!: its easy to post
that sortof thing :roll: so lets help each other thats whot the forum
 all about  

saruman

heres to future travels......... :arrow: :wink:

also by the way the answer is.......... yes :!:


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

Well said PJ, speaking for myself ? eh! I have never found anything on this site THAT contentious.

*Now this is where I wish I were more articulate, but here's my two-pennyworth.*

I have always enjoyed the banter and the inuendos and funny stories (especially Pusser) and have never yet taken offence, but I do agree that a tightish rein has to be kept to ensure that the site doesn't slip from the first rate site it started off at, into a site where new/potential members may feel uneasy about submitting questions for fear of raising a rumpus or being ridiculed.

If it does come to asking a club member to leave, then so be it. I do not envy you your job, but hey, somebody has to *'Kick 'em out'.*

I'm sure that more members will enlist to fill any void. I for one would miss this site so I have no intention of 'Rocking the boat'. OK, grovelling over.

Besides I've got a thick skin and broad shoulders, and *NO* I'm not *Quosimodo!* 8O

Texas


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

peejay said:


> ..............................
> I've been a member on here nearly from the start and it was always a joy to visit the forums with friendly banter and hardly any animosity or ill feeling, new members would introduce themselves and receive countless welcoming replies and be made to really genuinely feel part of a community.
> ...............
> Pete.


Those were the days...... 

Unfortunately we can't stand still, as a community and those of us who remember those early days must have some regrets but when we think about it may see that we are the victim of our own success.

This site now reflects a new dynamism which seems a little alien when viewed from way back then. Perhaps it was a bit too cosy.
I don't post anything like as often as I used to (who said "Good"?) and I must confess to feeling a little intimidated on ocassions by the macho tone in some of the topics. They almost forbid a reply.

That said, this is still the best motorhome forum on the web and I am nowhere near the point of giving up on MotorhomeFacts.com if MotorhomeFacts doesn't give up on me.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

This forum can be likened to a flock of starlings .. a common sight at this time of the year. The starlings gather into great big flocks and fly around the sky making sweeping patterns in the air....a really incredible sight.










What is it that controls the amazing shapes that they make.....well many people have tried to work this out and the best that they can come up with is that the starlings sort of follow the ones around them...so the direction is not random but is not directed by any one bird either, but it is led from the front of the flock........it is sort of a communal decision to go in the desired direction...led by example from the front rather than by any logic.

So that is what I am suggesting for our forum...those who wish it to be the friendly place it was, must put on their thickest skin and go out of their way to post ideas, answers and messages and ignore the crass remarks and rudeness and maybe, just maybe, the forum can regain its old atmosphere and will start going in the direction that Peejay (and myself) would like to see it go.

Mike

P.s. and if you want to talk about the starlings it may be a good idea to start another thread :lol:


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## 88974 (May 11, 2005)

Peejay and others.

I have to agree with what peejay and others have to say with regard to what is been posted on this site. I do think people tend to post without thinking about how their view will be received, perhaps everyone should read their post before pressing submit to make sure they are happy with what is been said. There have been a couple of times over the past few weeks that I have typed up a reply to a contentious issue and said to myself walk away for five minutes before submitting, I have always erased my reply, this has happened at least 5 times. I know I have inadvertently insulted a member in the chat room one evening, I thought it was friendly banter but I obviously upset them, I nearly died (and I certainly cried) when I discovered this, I did pm them to apologise, I do not know whether they have accepted my apology or not. I do think that the written word is very different to the verbal word. It is very hard at times to get the tone of what is being said, eg. if I said "get Lost' aggresively, you would be insulted, but "get lost' with a laugh, it means something alot different. Also we all come from different backrounds, age, culture, economic, sex etc. what is funny or of no consequence to one could mean alot ot someone else. This is a wonderful site whether it is just to discuss m/h issues or off topic and long may it continue.


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## Frenchlily (Sep 16, 2005)

When I found this site I was looking for advice on motorhomes,I now use this site for many different reasons,I have never experienced a forum before so that was new to me, and so addictive........

We have only owned a motorhome for 2 months so the advice posted has been really useful. We also holiday in France regulary so again have picked up such a lot of tips.
e.g. Never knew we could use aires for overnight parking and now own the book,thanks to Peejay.
It was the first place I looked for ferry advice and got a bargain for next year.

The humour at times is a tonic,especially after a hard day at work.........

When I'm bored I follow the different threads and usually can find something of interest. 

When it all went wrong a couple of weeks ago I was so disapointed, I hate conflict as we see it in so many other places, it certainly would have stopped me using the forum if it had continued.It seems to have settled now, but I stay clear of anything that may be controversal. 

Lesley


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

We are nearly at 8000 members and rising and we have so many people logging in at once that the website has had to be reorganised. The bit I do not understand is that if this was purely motorhome related and no off topic, jokes etc then I am puzzled how anyone can spend sometime hours reading purely about motorhome stuff, interesting though it is in reasonable doses. What is one of the things I believe people log in for is because they never know what is going to be on here. I like that. And as I have said before I can hardly imagine a motorhome rally where everyone sits around discussing Porta Potties all night, surely what is happening in the world has a place and the disasters and humour of our society.

We have gone from a General Topic then we went to Off Topic and then we went to Jokes and Off Topic and then the Jokes were removed from page one as well.

It is my opinion that those that wish to be 100% motorhome readers that they used the umpteen Topics available and the ones that like to talk about current affairs and stuff can use the one Off Topic topic.

I do agree with PJ that there has been some unhappy incidents but the mods will step in and in the event of a misunderstanding an apology should suffice.
Personally, I am happy to be flamed from time to time because it shows what I have written is important but I have always thought the line to be drawn was against personal abuse and I do not remember seeing any of that at anytime and if I did the mods wiped it straightaway.

Many of the above posters do appear to be unhappy with the current state of affairs and I accept there reasoning. But if you put the members who are interesting in Off topic and joke stuff too far on the back burner then I think it will be a sad day for the direction that this site i.e. backwards..


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## 89057 (May 12, 2005)

Hi Peejay

Spot on.

I stopped posting any opinions a few months ago, just post facts now.

Regards

Mark


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

Hello All

Whilst I can understand a desire for friendliness, in real world terms this is a panacia that may be strived for but will never be met, expectations will be varied. Not everyone or everything can be liked all the time. 
What one person sees as friendly may be, no will be, totally different to what another sees otherwise everyone would be of one mind. It may be comfortable to try and control peoples thoughts but it will never be the right thing to do. 
i certainly would not want to be associated with a site that was run by the thought police, and one of the best parts of this site is the freedom to express your own point of view.
I along with others, this is not the first time this subject has been discussed, have stressed the dislike for curt or rude answers to new posters questions, something that I believe is unforgivable, but when it comes to discussions on subjects particularly in Off Topic, then within reason, by which I mean no bad language, peoples opinions should be what they believe not what they think people would like to hear.
That may seem unpleasant to some of a sensitive disposition, but real world discusions mean you get real world answers, if there are those that do not like that then stay away from those sort of discusions. Likewise if someone puts a controversial or disparaging comment on a thread, then they have surely got to accept that those that disagree are going to react, and if the reaction is not what they like then maybe they should look at themselves and what they posted in the first place.
I made the suggestion on another thread a while back, when the Jokes were removed from the front page, that maybe there should be two front pages that could be selected from a start page, maybe one with Motorhome Facts only and the other with all topics including Jokes and Trivia and Off Topic. Then those that wish to stay in the cosseted and censored world could opt only to access the M/home Facts and those that want to access a full and dynamic Community could go in to the whole thing, maybe that would be a route to go down.
What is certain is that censoring or trying to 'Fluffy' up posters responses is artificial and in my opinion wrong. If anyone does not want to get into a discussion don't post on the thread. If you want real discussion then have your say and be proud of it. I have the greatest respect for anyone who makes a fair and reasonable point and would much rather have a discussion with those that are upfront than the back stabers that exist in this world.
I have read this five times now and if it upsets anyone with a sensitive disposition then I make no apologies, as I have not been rude and have said what I feel.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

I don't think that there is too much need to worry about the state of this site. I have been surfing the web, Usenet and various forums for longer than I care to remember and this is by far the friendliest, liveliest, and most interesting forum I have been a member of. True, it has diversified recently, but as has already been said, there's a limit to what you can say about motorhomes in one day - and we do like to debate the issues of the day from time to time. We haven't met many of the other forum members but I have to say that those we have met have been nice, genuine people and we hope to meet many more of you in the future.
There is the occasional rogue creeps in from time to time and it isn't always easy to spot their motives but when they find out we won't be baited they soon move on to somewhere else where they can satisfy their urges better.
My only comment would be that perhaps we need slightly more intervention from the moderators at times. In the past there has been little need for moderation but with the growing size of the community perhaps the moderators need to be a little more involved in some of the threads, just to keep everyone in line.
Because this site is obviously frequented by more than the usual number of more mature users ( I mean over 21 yo's by the way), we expect a certain etiquette that isn't the norm on the internet. For this reason we present a "soft target" for the idiots. I suggest that we attempt to be tolerant of others whilst taking care not to lower ourselves to their standards where appropriate.


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## 88840 (May 9, 2005)

Hi peejay


As you can tell I only found out about the site a short while ago, I view the forums on a daily basis when I am not out in the motorhome.
I met some members at the york show and found them friendly and informative. Every time I have asked a questuon ,the reply has been relevant, I totally agree with you about the tone of some of the replies and your remedy for it. In my case I open all new posts and if I am not interested in the thread, ignore it.

Keep up the good work 

stanbow


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

PeeJay asked "Is this still a freindly forum"? I feel that some members would think this is not the case, or the question would never have been asked!

I too am a little concerned with all the animosity and tension present on the site at the minute. I think its time the moderators arranged a MHF bonding session. We could all go to Scotland for a week and do team building activities, then sit in a circle and hold hands. what do you say guys? :wink: :lol: 


Regards Dave


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

'then sit in a circle and hold hands. what do you say guys?'

Like they do during a seance on 'Most Haunted'? :wink:

Sharon


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

Oh, and by the way Paulway - I totally agree with your last reply.

Sharon


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

> Like they do during a seance on 'Most Haunted'?


 I was thinking more along the lines of 'Gingangoolie' :wink:

Dave


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

MandyandDave said:


> [ I was thinking more along the lines of 'Gingangoolie' :wink:


No one is holding my gingangoolies 8O 8O


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Well said PJ.
I have now read this post twice, I have thought of 10,000 answers and gone for a cuppa and a *** but still find myself wanting to reply.
I think it is great to have objectives and asking people to be friendly is a wonderful objective to have. It is one I would support wholeheartedly. I always think before I post as you requested and being who I am I end up putting down what I think. I do not post anything to upset anyone and if I get flak, well that person needs to stand by their comments. I never post anything that I would not say to someones face, I am one of those rare creatures that was born with one face, and it's the one that is on the front of my head, not a pretty one, but it is there nontheless.
I have been sniped at and had rude comments flung at me, but hey I'm an adult and I deal with it accordingly, I don't whinge and whine, I just get on with it. If I say something that is wrong then I will publicly appologise, I am after all big enough, old enough and certainly ugly enough to do this.
I try to be honest with myself as well as others, which I notice is sadly missing on this site, however it does not stop me enjoying MHF in the slightest. I try to help people when I can and I banter with people where possible, sometimes it is not as easy when typing as it would be if we were face to face but that is a universal problem. Little disagreements are a fact of life I'm afraid, it is how they are resolved that is important.
Personally I agree with paulways comment that I would rather have the discussion than roll over and play dead, if I disagree then so be it, but at least people know where they stand.

I look forward to coming on this site and it has replaced the TV for me, I love all the sections and there is nothing better for me than real people airing there views in an adult fashion. If I wanted my postings to be meaningless gibberish I would join an under five forum.
Carry on the good work Nuke and the moderators, what we have here is fantastic, please don't allow it to become a politically correct debating society.

Kind regards one and all

Keith


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

MandyandDave said:


> We could all go to Scotland for a week and do team building activities, then sit in a circle and hold hands. what do you say guys? :wink: :lol:


Ok MandyandDave you guys can sit in a circle if you want, I think I will stick to watching the birds. :wink:

What was that saying .......Oh yes I remember ...."You don't have to be daft to be on here, but it helps"

Did I ever tell you lot about that time I was in a semaphore forum....it used to take bloody ages to send a message and didn't half make your arms ache....and being height challenged did not help either...I hardly ever got any replies. :roll:

Mike


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## johnsandywhite (May 9, 2005)

:lol: But of course. One does like to partake in convivial conversation whilst in solubrious surroundings. But then again, it is nice to have a little friendly, nay controversial even, conflab whilst in the general discussions surrounding the genre of Motorhomers. Is it not? :lol:


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

With so many members and such a diversity of topics there are bound to be the occasional frictions - that's life.
Yes, there are the odd unecessarily sharp comments from some members - ignore them. If they become unacceptably rude - evict them.

There's too much good stuff on this site to be put off by the odd unfriendly remark.

Non tatum illegitimus carborundum (or something like that!)


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## 88993 (May 11, 2005)

What on earth is all the fuss about? If the site is no longer "friendly", then who have WE to blame?
If one or two people can create such a negative feel, then I doesn't say much for the input of the rest of us. There are, after all, nearly 8000 of us now.

Oh yes, if I have offended anyone, uh, well, oh dear, um..... Well, what can I say!!! :dontknow:


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

lol
well i partially agree with you Peejay, but the thing is with soooo many members there will always be disagreements, and with the written word i.e. forums being so easy to take in more than one way it allows for misinterpretations.

I believe the search function being 100% now it will reduce the number of repeat posts which have been seen so many times before.

I have plans to improve MHF once i have secured my own financials so we will always be innovative and non stagnant and MHF will forge on in whatever evolved form it takes


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## takeaflight (May 9, 2005)

I guess most posters on this site are over 21ish well physically if not mentally, at least 13 years old anyway and personally I have found the site useful technically and it has saved me money on several occasions. The topics are diverse and wide ranging, which at times I find entertaining and periodically enlightening, you are free to join in or not as the case may be, you can be a voyeur or risk being got at by posting. But in my opinion that is what keeps MHF alive and keeps me popping in. I am a member of another forum nothing to do with MHs, however now I rarely visit, the forum is dyeing because the subject covered is singular and has been pretty well thrashed to death, everyone as asked what they need to, there really is nothing more to be said on the topic and new visitors don’t have to post because all they have to do is a search and their questions are answered. 

For me I don’t wont political correctness if a restaurant is full of smoke then I will leave, if a TV programme is disgusting then I will switch off, if I wont to say happy Christmas at the risk of offending other cultures then so be it, if I wont to post on this forum and someone wont’s to have a go then ce’st le vie I dont need or require nannying. So come on guys this is a great forum lets keep it that way, keep the banter, when someone as a go don’t take it personally, I feel sure that its only sport, and if its not, who cares any way, it may be worth reading. And lets face it most of us slow down to rubberneck at that accident on the other side of the carriageway and say a little prayer in thanks that its not us.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

After re-reading this post again and again I have seen what was troubling me.
Lots of you "seem" to be implying that you much preferred the site when it was small and cosy and everyone got on with each other. This is probably true.
When I posted, along with others, about the idea of charging subscriptions I was shouted down and one of the main reasons given was that charging would deplete the numbers of members and the site would shrink.
Which way would you really like to go??? You can't have it both ways.
I see that this thread has thrown up some very interesting comments, as usual, and the originator will have found that whilst most contributors agree with the original sentiment, as indeed I do, they all have their own opinions about the wider implications. This is normal and healthy.
Consider this site as a pub..... If you openly say something at the bar, do you expect everyone to agree, or even be polite in their reply, or take you to one side and whisper in your ear or even take what you have said as gospel without asking you to justify any claims and or statements that have been made? Why should it be different here?

Many thanks to all who have read this post and please be assured that it has been made honestly, without prejudice and without the intent of harming or upsetting anyone. Please also be assured that no animals were harmed during the making of this reply.

Keith


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Thanks to peejay for a timely and thoughtful post. I enjoy MHF for all of:

a) the banter, humour & sense of community;
b) informed, objective question/ answers and discussion, and;
c) helping others when I can.

Crudely interpreting peejay's question as "do we need to do anything to improve the content and character of MHF?", firstly an observation and a caveat.

The observation is that, after all the grief we give nuke regarding improving MHF, in terms of its enabling environment, structure, functionality, appearance, bugs, funding, etc., it is high time we recognise that individually and collectively we too have a responsibility for the MHF end-product. Nuke provides the envornment; we fill it. However, along with this responsibility comes congratulations and back-slapping all around, for MHF is a great product. Which leads me nicely to my caveat.

Nothing should be read into my subsequent answer to suggest anything other than a gentle nudge on the tiller is desired. Basically, there is not a lot wrong. OK, then, who should do what? I shall divide the community into thread initiators, thread respondees, and mods.

Thread initiators. Or potential thread initiators. If you feel inhibited in asking a question, or posting a contribution in any way, or you feel annoyed or worse at the responses, please drop any mod a PM. And in posing a question, please give explanatory context, for you may not appreciate it, but good targeted answers aren't always waiting to be plucked from memory, but can take a degree of research. Targeted answers need the context of the question to be appreciated. Help MHF members to help you.

Thread respondees. Certainly always before clicking on "Submit", but preferably before as well, ask yourself objectively does your contribution add value to the community? In the vast majority of cases, of course it will. It doesn't have to be deep and meaningful; many a knee-jerk flippant comment raises a laugh and keeps the banter going. But if it smacks more of continuing a "discussion" for selfish reasons, even if you feel genuinely wronged, be big enough to stop there and then, and click anywhere OTHER than "submit". Take the moral high ground if you like, and continue via PM. If you feel you have to post to defend your position in the eyes of MHF as a whole, believe me, you will be thought all the more of for doing it this way.

Mods. Without being expected to monitor any more than you currently do, and for which many thanks, I would encourage you to be a little more proactive in deleting posts, locking threads and/or PMing as appropriate, when contributions start shedding more heat than light, and especially as soon as they get personal. However, please exercise constraint; the only internet forums that keep me have been those that are policed with a gentle touch and the Wisdom of Solomon.

Dave


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

May I just say if anyone is upset/very annoyed or whatever, about anything on the site, then please PM a mod, there are not a lot of us and we cannot intercept every post that is going awry,.So if you see something, bring it to our attention. That way hopefully the bad apple will be thrown from the barrel before the rot spreads.
Also, as someone has mentioned, what upsets one person may be acceptable to another, I, and the other mods, can only use our own perspective on an issue, but if upsets you then I, for one, want to know about it PDQ.
I am proud of this forum and the community spirit behind it, but we all need to do our bit to keep it the way it is.
Good post PJ, perhaps it will make people think about the issue.


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

As the problem has now gone I can’t see any reason for this forum being any thing but a friendly one again. Other forums that had the same problem soon recovered after the problem was removed.


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

Not convinced the problem was/is down to just one individual, Merlin


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

HelenB said:


> Not convinced the problem was/is down to just one individual, Merlin


Only time will tell


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

So Helen
Can you elaborate further. I for one would love to see some honesty here instead of all the supposition and smoke screening.
If there is a "problem" (which I am not entirely sure there is) can you or any other moderator of the site tell us:

What?
Who?
And what is expected from them?

If the alleged guilty party(s) are not made aware of their alleged transgressions they will not have the opportunity to put it right, this is a fundamental in industries disciplinary code of practice so it is a proven model.

Keith


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

I think she means me. If she thinks getting rid of me as well as George will help then do it. I don’t care one way or another.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi all

Just a suggestion:

If you are ever wondering just why someone in a thread is posting what may seem to you unnecessary or rude comments go to his/her profile and check out their history of posts _"find all post by X". _

Now that the search feature has been fixed by Nuke you will be able to go back through all of their posts and get a general idea of what sort of person/poster you are dealing with....you can then treat them with the respect they deserve.

Mike


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## bar (Aug 6, 2005)

*Pee Jay's Post*

Like all new members one watches to see what the protocol is before posting.
I (as a recent joiner) got a good welcome and quick and accurate answers to my technical queries. Thanks 
Have just come back from 2months in France Spain Portugal where we met many really sound & experienced motorhomers.Some of these people related their experiences to us and some of those were unpleasant & involved scams and thefts.For example in Olhao ( Algarvae) tourist bicycles are being stolen daily and if not the bike then the saddle ( both annoying & potentially painful). A committee of Brits at the campsite had involved local t.v company to publicise the problem and things are changing.
What has all this got to do with Pee Jay's post, well it had been my intention to update the site whilst we were away with new info, but I had posted info about an attack on an English couple near Biarritz ( great place) and some of the comments made me wish I hadn't bothered, so I stopped posting.

When you have been travelling for 30 years, spent 20 years of your life interviewing evey conceivable type of human being you get a bit of a feel for what is true and what is not. It makes you feel a bit dismayed when people reply with comments like, yes yes heard it all before, bring me the evidence, stop frightening people. Do you not warn your friends when there is a potential risk?. Just because nothing has happened to you in 10 years doesn't mean it isn't out there. Like the old saying "Just because you are Not paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you".
When one member replies with "stop frightening people" (it is called MotorhomeFACTS) should I have got into an argument with them or stopped posting, which I did.? It is not knowing how many members the negative replies represent. 
Let members post whatever they have to say, as long as it is said politely, and 
each member is capable of doing their own mental editing of the facts without
self appointed experts interpreting/ censoring their reading for them.

Don;'t know if this helps your case PeeJay, but I certainly feel encouraged by your intervention. Thanks Bar.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Well said Mike
Another level of security that does not exist in my "pub" analogy.

Keith


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

Well said spykal and you will see the other person in the posts were George or paying to post on this forum. All I have ever wanted was a free forum without George causing trouble like he has done elsewhere.


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi Merlin

Not that I was pointing a finger at you directly ..the insight into a posters motivation found by looking at their posting history can sometimes be very revealing.

But your upfront reply has cheered me no end. Lets hope you can have some time off from your crusade.

best regards 

Mike


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

Glad that’s all sorted now I can go to hospital next week feeling happy, that is if they get the operation right this time. 8O


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Merlin said:


> the other person in the posts were George or paying to post on this forum.


I am sorry Merlin, but as the thread progressed it became curiouser and curiouser, I found it rather unnecessary and sorry that I could not see the hints you dropped.

I do think threads of that nature, on that topic, in that form , are totally unnecessary and no doubt are the type of things to which PJ was referring. I am a simpleton and like to take things at their face value. I am annoyed that I spent time posting on the thread and frankly wasting my time.

However, I really do hope that your hospital visit and surgery is successful ,
and that you are released from whatever medical problem you have.

John


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## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I'm totally confused now, I thought I knew what was going on but I'm afraid you've lost me completely. :? :? :? 
Think a nightcap is called for 8) 8) 8)


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

A nightcap at 2:49 in the afternoon?? Now I am lost! 8O 

Sharon


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## 88741 (May 9, 2005)

kands said:


> So Helen
> Can you elaborate further. I for one would love to see some honesty here instead of all the supposition and smoke screening.
> If there is a "problem" (which I am not entirely sure there is) can you or any other moderator of the site tell us:
> 
> ...


Was not actually pointing the finger at anyone specifically, just musing that it usually takes at least 2 people to start an argument, or argumentative thread.As to being honest, not sure I have never been devious on this site, if someone has bent the boundaries as I see them I have always Pm'd them and told them. Think you will find the other mods do this too. 
As to what is expected of people then surely the site rules cover that area well .
:wink:


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

its never to early for a nightcap sharon, and like phil905 i was lost 2 pages ago, is merlin merlin? or george george? is the earth round? is up, down? who is merlin2? beats me, but after a nightcap; who cares :lol: :lol: 

Olley


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

Merlin is Merlin, Merlin2 was anskyber. Merlin was george for a while, and anskyber was merlin for a wile. I hope you understand that!  8O


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Helen
Like you I was not specifically directing my question at you, I just addressed you because you as a moderator had posted and I found it intriguing.
I would slightly disagree with your comment re site rules covering the area well because if that were so, we would not have this thread going IMHO.
It is my belief that if we wish to get to the bottom of something, then it is no good dancing around the periphery, one should just (politely) get stuck in and ask the questions that are required to get the correct answer.
In my humble opinion it is precisely because this doesn't happen that allows some people to take advantage and cause contention where there should be none. I am not saying there will never be a contentious subject or that people have to say / act in a certain way, I am just saying that without some form of discipline this site will spiral (maybe) down to the depths of the perpetrators. This can be seen in every walk of Politically Correct Britain and again in my personal view, should be avoided. If someone is mis behaving (for want of a better word) then they should be told in no uncertain terms and given the opportunity to act big and sort the problem out. What actually seems to happen is that someone moans that something isn't fair and a lot of other people jump in and attack presumably feeling brave in numbers. This in my view is despicable. People should be big enough to post there own views, not those of some collective committee and hound people for whatever transgression they have made. Hunting is obviously still alive and well on this site.....
Spare the rod etc....
I do also want to congratulate the mods here for the superb job they do, I for one would not relish it and I'm sure if I did there would be a lot of ticked off people, so this job is best left to the ones who are good at it, and you lot generally are.

These are my personal thoughts, please do be upset in any way as this is not my intention.

Keith


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

Kands

Your last line, now we know who the perpetrator is  

Ken S.


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

Perhaps when a mot tells someone off like they have with me every one should know about it, and not keep it behind closed doors


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

PMSL @ KenS

My spelling is great but I didn't notice the word "not" had gone AWOL.

This so funny, when I am trying to be serious for once.
Thanks for the correction mate.

Keith


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

I shall be travelling on kands mistake till Christmas :kermit: 

Sharon


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Freudian slip? maybe :lol: :lol: 

Olley


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

kands

I edited as you wrote, both guilty


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi Ken
I did insert the errant word, but then re removed it otherwise your hilarious comment would not have meant anything to future viewers.

I am still laughing mate, that is what is great about this community......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :laughing5: 

Keith


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Merlin is Merlin, Merlin2 was anskyber. Merlin was george for a while, and anskyber was merlin for a wile. I hope you understand that!"

Yes, thanks, I understand that; I had worked out similar when I posted that nuke should consider the freedom to change one's username. Why, however, I don't understand. Bit like jabber, I am a simple, straightforward soul. Life is difficult enough even then, without spreading confusion for the hell of it. 

Dave


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive

that was written nearly 200 years ago.......seems pretty appropriate now :roll: 

I am still amazed at the way some of you (no criticism intended) believe all you see and read on here. The way someone writes on a forum is never, ever, a true reflection of their normal character. Everybody ...me included, has a way of writing which we use to project our online characterteristics or maybe our desired online characteristics. It would drive a psychologist to drink to try to analyze some of the folk on here just from the messages they write.

In the straight forward question and answer type of thread there is not much room to play around with your writing...except maybe to try to look intelligent, knowledgeable or "cool" (see I just did it ...making out I am "with it")...perversely some folk even enjoy playing the fool when quite obviously they are no fool at all.

Unfortunately, we have lately had many good threads that started well, ruined by some posters using these threads as a vehicle to further there own perverse ends. The original question being either left unaswered or drowned in a sea of aggressive abuse. For me, I can do without any of this information if I have to endure reading the load of crap that comes with it. (see did it again.. I would not normally talk like that but it makes me mad and I want you to know that :lol: )

In Off Topic things can get much more exciting or dangerous for the unwary and if you are the sensitive sort it can be very upsetting to be ridiculed or criticised for the thoughts and views that you post. Some folk have an abrubt nature in real life others put it on like a coat when they come into the forum...why? In real life I choose to avoid those sort, on here that would sometimes mean not posting at all.

Personally I love people watching and to do it online is very compulsive...I have in my minds eye a picture of most of the regular posters on here...I wonder what shocks I will get if and when we actually ever meet.?

Mike

P.S. and before you say it I will..."bloody hell he must like the sound of his own voice" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

spykal said:


> Personally I love people watching and to do it online is very compulsive...I have in my minds eye a picture of most of the regular posters on here...


Heck! 8O


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

spykal said:


> Personally I love people watching and to do it online is very compulsive...I have in my minds eye a picture of most of the regular posters on here...I wonder what shocks I will get if and when we actually ever meet.?
> 
> Gosh, what picture comes to mind about me Spykal??
> 
> Sharon


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## 88782 (May 9, 2005)

"Personally I love people watching"

Try it at a Casino sometime, it's the best entertainment ever.

Ken S.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Well, absolutely loads of replies there and many thanks for that, I’m pigging exhausted after reading through them all!

The original intent of my post has succeeded judging on the number of thought provoking and excellent replies so I think what I can deduce from that is that the majority of you all care deeply about this site, just like wot I do. So I reckon this is a timely reminder for us all and hopefully that’s an end to it - onwards and upwards!

I, for one will try and take everyone’s views in this thread onboard, I won’t comment on all your replies as I’d be typing all night and bore the pants off everyone.

As a mod I have the humble duty to try and read all posts on here, whether I’m interested in them or not and this perhaps gives me more of a perception of the way the forums are going than someone who just tends to read the topics that interest them and that’s why I felt a need to say what I said.

Personally there is no way on this earth that I would want to see this site degenerate into stepfordwives.com and everyone wishy washilly agreeing with each other and wishing you a good day how nice etc etc. 
It’s great that we can all raise nearly any subject going and have a good chat about it and that’s where MHF is far better than other m/h forums, its diversity. There’s no way it will become boring. I just feel a bit of fine tuning is needed and our attitudes to others needs a bit of revaluating (is that a word?) as explained in the original post.

Dave Burleighs post summed it up for me about a nudge of the tiller being needed and as a mod I will certainly try and be a bit more pro-active on the modding front. There have been a few times when I’ve let a few heated discussions or out of order jibes, call them what you will - go without comment for the sake of an easy life and I probably should have stepped in, so in future I shall certainly up my game a bit more when required.

I think that’s all I want to say about it, everything else has been covered by your replies.

Pete

ps; Oh, and i also liked spykals bit about the starlings, that wildlife prog that Bill Oddie did about them was absolutely great wasn't it. 
Sorry, gone off thread there, so i'll start practising what i preach and take myself round the back for a good thrashing and you can all expect the same if you misbehave in future :wink:


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

*Spykal Quote; The way someone writes on a forum is never, ever, a true reflection of their normal character.*

I beg to differ, if you ever meet me, what you see is what you get. But probably wished you hadn't...if you get my drift?

Texas


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## 88734 (May 9, 2005)

How do we know who is who. Ever thought about password swapping! 8O


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## 96097 (Aug 22, 2005)

'I beg to differ , if you ever meet me, what you see is what you get.'

\/ 

There are many of us here that feel that way, but haven't said it for fear of upsetting someone.......... :roll: 

Sharon


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

RockieRV said:


> 'I beg to differ , if you ever meet me, what you see is what you get.'


Me too, no hidden agenda or hiding behind a forum name .. 8) I'm not clever enough for that .. :roll:


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## 96088 (Aug 22, 2005)

Merlin said:


> How do we know who is who. Ever thought about password swapping! 8O


Go on, enlighten us :-k


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

"Go on, enlighten us "

Do you really mean that? 

PeeJay perhaps you need to have a word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Merlin, this is very strange. I know George came back several times under different names and in a way I think Ican understand why, not agree, but understand.

What I can't understand is why you feel the need to change id's. What purpose does that serve you and as for password swapping, this is a new one in my book and I find it all very strange and dissapointing that someone feels they have to go to those lengths, and more importantly, why? What is wrong with just being Merlin - Merlin? Or am I just being a bit naive here?

pete.


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## bigfoot (May 16, 2005)

Some of the posters who wind members up must gain some perverse pleasure.
I pit them in the same category as virus senders,graffitos,pirate radio broadcasters, esp. on the amateur bands(the main reason for me giving it up).
Others are sel opiniated and always right, maybe what they say is correct but there are other ways to say it. If it is as a response it is posted in such a way to demean the asker-this is an insult!!
Also some are just spoiling for a fight.
This may be the type of person who wild camps, uses remote sites hates children and animals and will turn away from a site if there is another van on it.
Missed opportunity no one to argue with.

Note my signature it's there for a reason!!!


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