# 'Authorised' Algarve MotorHome stopover scheme..



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Found on another forum, I wonder if this will have any affect all the other areas for motorhomes not on the list and those 'unofficial' but tolerated stopovers?

http://www.algarvedailynews.com/news/7463-algarve-motorhome-scheme-launched

http://www.visitalgarve.pt/pressroom.file.php?fileID=183&file=folheto_ing_webpdf.pdf

Pete


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

it reads (to me) like a couple of dozen sites have banded together to form a cartel, they are open about their objective - "the end result desired is to end wild camping".
But they have failed to get backing for this, and they avoid mentioning the obvious corollary of driving legal but non-registered sites out of business too. Given the EU's Competition laws that's hardly surprising.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

It needs to be asked, but for whom is wild camping a "problem" - site owners perhaps?


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

This is nothing more or less than an attempt by a gang of "proper" site owners to force motorhomers to only use their full-service-high-price sites; by trying to establish a monopoly position.
All the shops and restaurants and bars that I've been in close to wildcamp-tolerated areas have nothing but praise and thanks for the motorhomers who come there each winter and spend their money in those establishments.


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

Of course us 'proper' site users never spend any money in local bars etc as well as providing employment for site staff etc and paying into the Portuguese economy by way of taxes which cover the necessary use of sewage and water facilities. 

How many so called 'wild campers' use sites to do the washing etc, if not for regular users of sites this convenience would not exist. This is also the reason most 'proper' sites charge high rates for short stays.

Merry Christmas


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Al42 said:


> Of course us 'proper' site users never spend any money in local bars etc as well as providing employment for site staff etc and paying into the Portuguese economy by way of taxes which cover the necessary use of sewage and water facilities.
> 
> How many so called 'wild campers' use sites to do the washing etc, if not for regular users of sites this convenience would not exist. This is also the reason most 'proper' sites charge high rates for short stays.
> 
> Merry Christmas


This is NOT a 'site users' v 'wild campers' thing, this is about sites trying to put a stop to wild camping in their area, because they THINK they are losing our trade - they aren't, many of us will just go elsewhere, and those businesses that do benefit from our custom in those areas will be adversely affected :-(

Not everyone with a motorhome wants to be regimented in lines on sites, looking at each other. Many of us like the freedom to stop in a quiet, secluded wild camping spot for the night, away from others, or maybe a simple, quiet aire.

I have only used campsites on a few occasions, but have used wild camping spots or aires hundreds of times.

Please don't tar all us wild-campers with the same brush as those borderline 'gypos' that give motorhomers in general a bad name. Most of us are discreet, quiet, clean and don't set up camp (awnings, chairs, tables, BBQ's, washing lines, etc) outside our motorhomes - in fact we are no different to a motorhome that is just left parked, except that we often leave the place cleaner than we find it! Yes, in some nice, quiet, out-of-the-way location you may see me sitting in a deck-chair with a glass of wine or enjoying the view, but it is unlikely that you will see me as I carefully pick where I do, so as not to upset any locals, etc.


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

I do not see this as site owners trying to stop wild camping in their area but a somewhat shambolic (it is Portugal) start to a more regulated approach to the problem(and it is a problem) of people camping wherever they feel like it.

There are more and more regulated private and municipal camperstops/aires being opened on the Algarve, many in spots where unregulated camping took place before, or do some object to paying anything at all.

The scenes at Silves and Vila Real de Sto Antonio and many others where hundreds of campers congregated in the centre of towns with no facilities was a situation that no country should have to put up with and would certainly not be tolerated in the UK or any other Northern European country.


It seems to me that at long last the Portuguese are attempting to make some money for the country(and individuals) by organising things into a more formal system.

Regarding parking in regimented lines I do not see anything preferable in parking unregimented on top of one another in a car park or piece of waste ground.

If anyone is unprepared to pay a small sum to use aires etc and use the resources of a country I do not think that they will be much missed.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

siggie said:


> This is NOT a 'site users' v 'wild campers' thing, this is about sites trying to put a stop to wild camping in their area, because they THINK they are losing our trade - they aren't, many of us will just go elsewhere, and those businesses that do benefit from our custom in those areas will be adversely affected :-(
> 
> Not everyone with a motorhome wants to be regimented in lines on sites, looking at each other. Many of us like the freedom to stop in a quiet, secluded wild camping spot for the night, away from others, or maybe a simple, quiet aire.
> 
> ...


Plus one to all of the above, we are dedicated wild campers, having since moving from a tent to MoHo only stayed on one camp site, which was Sligachan and it was closed for the winter (sign said it was okay to stay but no facilities) the problem with wild camping is not so much where some people choose to stop, although that is questionable in some cases, but how many stop in one place, which can create a problem.

We have our own set of rules, IE we do not stay near to anyones house, if at all possible we will stay out of sight of any house within a few miles, if at all possible we will stay out of sight of the road too. We used to stay in forests but they seem to be closing and they're locking the gates so we can't get in, asking forest workers why, we were told tent campers were lighting fires so they had no choice, MoHos were not the problem.

We don't go so far as cleaning up where we go, as we try not to stay in messy places as they attract undesirable types which we prefer to avoid at all costs.

We do use local facilities and shops where & when needed.

We prefer to camp alone, not wanting to listen to others music or TV, kids or dogs, and deffo no gennys, we're not anti social, far from it, we just prefer our own company, if we see a nice place to stop, but is occupied, then unless there is plenty of space to be a good distance from them, we will move on, but many times, someone will park on our bumper after we've settled in, why not leave a bit of space, last year in Scotland we were surrounded by 5 Hymers with German plates, I asked them to move as they were actually blocking us in and gaping through our windows, they ignored us despite having good English, what do you do with people like that?


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Plus one to all of the above, we are dedicated wild campers, having since moving from a tent to MoHo only stayed on one camp site, which was Sligachan and it was closed for the winter (sign said it was okay to stay but no facilities) the problem with wild camping is not so much where some people choose to stop, although that is questionable in some cases, but how many stop in one place, which can create a problem.
> 
> We have our own set of rules, IE we do not stay near to anyones house, if at all possible we will stay out of sight of any house within a few miles, if at all possible we will stay out of sight of the road too. We used to stay in forests but they seem to be closing and they're locking the gates so we can't get in, asking forest workers why, we were told tent campers were lighting fires so they had no choice, MoHos were not the problem.
> 
> ...


That is the best post in favour of responsible wild camping that I have seen, the problem as I see it is the sheer numbers involved and the unsuitable locations they choose, particularly on the Algarve.

Merry Christmas :smile2:
I


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

I don't want to stop anyone doing what they want to re parking or wilding, but when they they impose on others it is antisocial.
For every business at Silves that praised the wildcampers for the extra business , there was always someone who complained about access to the sportscentre car park and the waste and rubbish left behind. Personally I like both wilding AND sites. I like the sociabiltiy of small campsites, but always use good aires when I can and will wild stay whenever we fancy it and find it agreeable .
I have used several of those mentioned sites on that Algarve map over the years and I don`t think it`s just about closing down the unofficial campers. Some of those sites (Rio Formosa at Cabannas for example) are full or nearly full all year and probably couldn`t take too many more !
Others , like Fuseta, have a particular problem with , for example a large sea front car park right outside , which despite the signs , Motorhomers ignore and set up camp!
Others are grossly crowded and , who knows WHAT pleasure the wildcampers get from THAT! (eg the old situation at Silves sports centre.
There were public meetings a year or so back to deal the "problems" of Motorhomers at Castro Marim and Vila Real de Santo Antonio.
There are only about 5 of the members of that scheme from Aires like Algarve Motorhomes at Silves and Falesia. They are good aires but more are needed if the problem is to go away and even then I guess there will be some that will object to paying even the small fee those aires charge and will impose themselves on some small community for free , claiming they are benefitting it with their custom, though it seems that it`s usually the big supermarket car parks that are full of MHs and the business goes there and not to village shops or bars.
RESPONSIBLE wild camping is fine and that`s often why we have a MH , but we have to repect the communities we impose ourselves on!


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

Garcia said:


> I don't want to stop anyone doing what they want to re parking or wilding, but when they they impose on others it is antisocial.
> For every business at Silves that praised the wildcampers for the extra business , there was always someone who complained about access to the sportscentre car park and the waste and rubbish left behind. Personally I like both wilding AND sites. I like the sociabiltiy of small campsites, but always use good aires when I can and will wild stay whenever we fancy it and find it agreeable .
> I have used several of those mentioned sites on that Algarve map over the years and I don`t think it`s just about closing down the unofficial campers. Some of those sites (Rio Formosa at Cabannas for example) are full or nearly full all year and probably couldn`t take too many more !
> Others , like Fuseta, have a particular problem with , for example a large sea front car park right outside , which despite the signs , Motorhomers ignore and set up camp!
> ...


Another best post......can I have 2??

Merry Christmas:smile2:


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Al42 said:


> Another best post......can I have 2??


Yeah OK, we get the message, you agree with all of us when we say that groups of 'gypo' style wild-campers are bad and responsible wild-campers are good, but you only like those posts that don't quote you when we make that very point :grin2:



Al42 said:


> Merry Christmas:smile2:


Merry Christmas :smile2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

???


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Sounds to me like they want to make Portugal just like the UK is for motothomers


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

siggie said:


> Yeah OK, we get the message, you agree with all of us when we say that groups of 'gypo' style wild-campers are bad and responsible wild-campers are good, but you only like those posts that don't quote you when we make that very point


There is no need for racist abuse. Once might be overlooked , but twice is , to me , seriously offensive.
Irresponsible wild campers are also offensive whatever ethnic group they belong to !!!


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

BrianJP said:


> Sounds to me like they want to make Portugal just like the UK is for motothomers


No. They just don't want 60 or 70 motorhomes occupying their town centres.
I've seen them, especially at Silves where they are a blot on the landscape.
Nothing wrong with wildcamping if its done properly. If they need the company of a crowd of campers let them use a campsite.
There are many, many locations in Portugal where you can wildcamp, use an aire, official or otherwise or as an alternative a very reasonable priced campsite. I'm on one at the moment which costs about 8 euros a day with EHU plenty of showers, laundry room and hot wash-ups.If a motorhomer is not prepared to pay his/her way then they should not be allowed to destroy the lifestyle for those that not only pay their way but appreciate the facilities that European countries provide for us.
If the abuse of host nations continue then, yes, I can see a lot of European countries going the way of the UK.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Are Gypsies an ethnic group? Romani's are of course, but not all Gypsies are Romani's.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Garcia said:


> There is no need for racist abuse. Once might be overlooked , but twice is , to me , seriously offensive.
> Irresponsible wild campers are also offensive whatever ethnic group they belong to !!!


OMG, PC gone mad :crying:

My non-white, non-British wife finds you calling me a racist seriously offensive! Now get over yourself, have another Sherry and enjoy your Christmas - oh, sorry that should be... have another drink of your choice (alcohol or not) and enjoy your Winterfest :wink2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Tis the season of goodwill to all men, oh yeah n women too of course.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Tis the season of goodwill to all men, oh yeah n women too of course.


..and hermaphrodites, and transexuals, and those who don't like to declare a stereotyping gender that traps them in one of societies pigeon holes, etc, etc...

...just to keep the PC brigade happy :reindeer::santa::love7:


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Are Gypsies an ethnic group? Romani's are of course, but not all Gypsies are Romani's.


I will apologise for diverting the thread from its original intention, but not for my objection to the comment.

Gypos is a slur applied to Romani peoples and is certainly racist. It is also unnecessary . There are
many other ways that could be used to to express ones intent without resorting to offensive stereotypes!

If that makes me excessively "politically correct" so be it. I can live with that!


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

I am confused now( not uncommon) but as regards 'liking' other posts i tend to 'like' a post if I agree with all of it, if I disagree with some of it then I will either respond or or not,

Merry Christmas


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

Garcia said:


> ......
> Gypos is a slur applied to Romani peoples........


Not in the dictionaries I use, and I fancy not by the poster who used it in this thread.
It's actually a 'member of the travelling community' who may be English, Irish (North and/or South), Essex, Welsh, Scots as well as many other races and nations.
You may use whatever definition you like for the word, but that's not under discussion here.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

mgdavid said:


> Not in the dictionaries I use, .


OED .........***** ..........derogatory term for Gypsies .............

I rest my case..............


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## mgdavid (Nov 27, 2014)

meanwhile back in the world of the man / woman in the street...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gypo

several of the more formal dictionaries (Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, Collins etc ) give multiple definitions, a few of which mention Romany, but it's clear to me that not all gypsies are Romanys, and not all Romanys are gypsies; it's vague enough that we're either both right or both wrong.

PS - have you seen what the Spanish think it means?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/spanish-dictionary-gypsies-definition-cheat
Now that does seem disgraceful.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Garcia said:


> I will apologise for diverting the thread from its original intention, but not for my objection to the comment.
> 
> Gypos is a slur applied to Romani peoples and is certainly racist. It is also unnecessary . There are
> many other ways that could be used to to express ones intent without resorting to offensive stereotypes!
> ...


Not sure why you quote me as I didn't mention "Gypos" I used to hang around with some genuine Gypsy kids when I was about 10, nicer peeps you will never meet, generous, honest and hard working, & not to be confused with long term lay-by dwellers, who for some reason get called Pikeys which again is incorrect.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

mgdavid said:


> meanwhile back in the world of the man / woman in the street...
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gypo
> 
> several of the more formal dictionaries (Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, Collins etc ) give multiple definitions, a few of which mention Romany, but it's clear to me that not all gypsies are Romanys, and not all Romanys are gypsies; it's vague enough that we're either both right or both wrong.
> ...


Loved the name of the protest group mentioned in the story linked to above.

"the Association of Feminist Gypsies for Diversity ".

.


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## christine1310 (Apr 10, 2008)

There are only two places on the Algarve which I think provide what most MH'rs want for the winter and those are the aires at Lagos and Manta Rota, and that's why they are always full or nearly full. I.E a clean decent place to park for a small amount of money. No-one wants to park at Valverde campsite because it's overpriced and has little to offer in the winter except being near Praia da Luz. If every town or village along the Algarve coast provided an aire with parking spaces and a 'Flot Bleu' then you would probably get a lot less wild camping.


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

christine1310 said:


> There are only two places on the Algarve which I think provide what most MH'rs want for the winter and those are the aires at Lagos and Manta Rota, and that's why they are always full or nearly full. I.E a clean decent place to park for a small amount of money. No-one wants to park at Valverde campsite because it's overpriced and has little to offer in the winter except being near Praia da Luz. If every town or village along the Algarve coast provided an aire with parking spaces and a 'Flot Bleu' then you would probably get a lot less wild camping.


There are others that i know of and probably others that I don't, municipal aires at Vila Real Sto Antonio and Castro Marim. Private ones at Falesia and Paderne, agree completely that there is a need for more.

Hopefully the scheme mentioned will be a start, the local authorities are really missing out, even if they don't make much of a profit at least they would be providing employment for a few locals.

The need for such facilities is obvious and their provision would be to everyone's benefit.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

christine1310 said:


> There are only two places on the Algarve which I think provide what most MH'rs want for the winter and those are the aires at Lagos and Manta Rota, and that's why they are always full or nearly full. I.E a clean decent place to park for a small amount of money. No-one wants to park at Valverde campsite because it's overpriced and has little to offer in the winter except being near Praia da Luz. If every town or village along the Algarve coast provided an aire with parking spaces and a 'Flot Bleu' then you would probably get a lot less wild camping.


Just two places! C'mon if your stuck for a pitch in southern portugal then you have a serios lack of imagination and reference material. Anyway what's so special about algarve.The only times Ive been there its been overrun with weirdo expats looking for a chippy.


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## frandre (Jan 19, 2016)

No, these are just the aires that decide to be member of that club. Does not mean that aires not mentioned in the leaflet are unofficial or not licensed. They just do not want to be part of the burocracy.


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## PortugalSaint (Mar 23, 2016)

I would be grateful if you could inform me where you dump your toilet waste whilst wild camping?

Thanks


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

PortugalSaint said:


> I would be grateful if you could inform me where you dump your toilet waste whilst wild camping?
> 
> Thanks


Aires, Stellplatz, Sostas. Most have the toilet drains open all the time.

Motorway Service areas that have drains for coaches to discharge their WC tanks.

Manholes - having ensured that it is one for sanitation and not rain-water run-off.

Campsites that allow one to stop for servicing - emptying, water-filling etc. Some have been kind enough to offer it free, some for a charity contribution and others for a small fee.

Some of us carry one or more spare cassettes so we can last for a week or more before needing to find a facility.

I hope that satisfactorily answers your question.

Geoff


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## Tavira (Mar 18, 2011)

I say Spacerunner, I think that's a bit strong, I have lived here in the eastern Algarve for many years, and haven't seen a chippy, but weird I could agree with that......


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## PortugalSaint (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks you Nicholsong, it certainly does.

We have many old buses, lorries and vans wandering around the West coast particularly who actually dump their waste on the cliffs. I have personally seen men squatting and there is no need to write down what they are doing. Toilet paper can be seen blowing in the wind.

I personally think that campervan owners with adequate facilities are getting bad press for those who do not have facilities. We all see these vans in Portugal however, you do not see them on any low price sites or normal camping sites. It's unfortunate that the GNR do not seem to move them along or go to the right places where they might be at nighttime.


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