# Parking on your own driveway



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi. 
Does anyone understand this?
The restrictive covenant to my property states I cannot park a van or a caravan on my drive. (The house is about 5 years old and was built by Ben Bailey builders.)
Does a motorhome fall into the above categories?
How do you get rid of restrictive coventants?

Rapide561


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

hi rapide561 their is a restrictive covenant on mine and the surrounding property's, when built in 1930 they all had a1/4 acre of land, the covenant is supposed to stop us selling our back gardens (mines 150' long) 

20 years ago a local builder bought one knocked it down, put a road in and bought some of the gardens to build on. He took out an insurance against any problems.

As I understand it unless someone complains, and is prepared to go to court to stop you, you can ignore it.

Near to me is a large private housing estate, when you buy a house on there you have to join the housing trust, which polices the covenants that apply on that estate ie. no aerials, no front fences and no caravans, I rent a shop there and I had to join as well. in that situation i think your snookered.

Olley


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## cabra (May 11, 2005)

*parking on drive*

Hi Rapide,
We had the same problem with a new bungalow in Devon. The builder puts these covenants on to attact buyers so (in their opinion) the place doesn't look unsightly. My drive was double width and could accomodate at least two motorhomes but they made me move it .I had to store it 20 miles away.The annoying thing was a near neighbour had two cars on his drive up on bricks for months but that seemed .o.k . I dont know how long it takes to get rid of these discriminating laws , but best of luck.
We got round it------------- We now live in Spain with our camper in the drive . no problems here.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Parking on the drive*

Well I have arranged storage for the time being. Think I will need to do a bit of legal "digging" and get to the bottom of this mystery!


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

When we moved here the property was leasehold and forbade any caravans etc being parked on the property. We bought the freehold and the situation changed so we can park now but not forward of the property its self. Suits us as it happens.

I heard of somebody who parked the van on the drive, neighbours complained - the advice he was given was as its a vehicle and taxed provided its not in a no parking zone can be left of the road. As the officials could see no reason for the van being parked on the drive they suggested that it were parked of the road, neighbours would get fed up and stop objecting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

I'm sure this problem has been aired before. If you are a member of the Caravan Club contact their legal department for advice.

A motorcaravan is a licensed road vehicle. If you are unable to park it on your drive then suggest to whoever might complain that you will park it on the road instead. 

You would need to read your covenant to establish the arrangements for enforcement. Covenants can be lifted but this may prove to be a costly process. Many covenants are ignored.


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## 89264 (May 18, 2005)

Hi Rapide561

We have a similar thing where we are as it is a private estate (no, we are not posh - it is ex MOD house and we all pay a service charge and belong to the residents association etc!)

As far as I see it, it is not a van as it is not a commercial vehicle and it is not a caravan as it has wheels and is licenced, taxed and insured. We have got 2 side by side on the drive at the mo, a car sideways on in front of them and a car on the road!

No one has complained - yet! We have got a storage space available if we have any problems, but until then, he will stay at home!

Good luck

Rachel


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## 95603 (Jul 1, 2005)

Hello Rapide561,

This subject has been aired on several motor home forums and the general consensus seems to be that it all depends on the exact wording of the Covenant but also the sensibility of your neighbours also needs to be considered.  :evil: 8O  

In Scotland there is the Fue document which is in effect the same as a covenant. Mine clearly specifies the exclusion of Caravans and Commercial Vehicles. I wished to park my Swift on my driveway so checked out the matter legally. The Motor Caravan is a private vehicle and is in effect the same as a motor car and is taxed as a motor car. If it is sign written or used for business purposes then it is a commercial vehicle. I am not sure where this applies to vehicles over 7500 kgs and some of the large US RV's which I understand are classified as HGV,s. I had every right to park the Swift on my driveway, classified as a car and without breaking the rules of the Feu.

In the end I decided that parking a motorhome on the drive immediately in front of my neighbours lounge window was not what I would have liked so I store it 25 miles away.

There is also the security aspect. The motorhome not on the driveway is as good as putting up a sign "WE ARE NOT AT HOME".

I would recommend asking for a legal reading of the Covenant and perhaps speak to the neighbors and find out what they think. I was quite surprised to find that most of my neighbours had no objections at all.

Regards,

Mike


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## Jules (May 23, 2005)

Rapide561 said:


> Hi.
> Does anyone understand this?
> The restrictive covenant to my property states I cannot park a van or a caravan on my drive. (The house is about 5 years old and was built by Ben Bailey builders.)
> Does a motorhome fall into the above categories?
> ...


To get rid of a restrictive covenenat try the 'Lands Tribunal' web site for info. Also try posting on a 'property' forum such as channel4's, you may get some answers there.
Sorry I can't give a definate answer.


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Hi
I think most covenants will only become enforceable if someone complains, I don't think there is a covenant police yet....
I would suggest canvassing your neighbours and asking the question, maybe have the motorhome parked in the road outside your house whilst asking so that they will be able to see the size of it, what impact it may have on them and the impact it will have on them should they say no and you leave it legally parked on the road.
Give it a try before making any decisions......
Keith


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## 88801 (May 9, 2005)

We have a similar covenant that does not allow us to have a caravan on the drive at the front of the house. I used this to get the builders to give me extra space at the side of the house for a caravan which we had at the time. We have been in the house for over 20 years & neighbours have had caravans parked on their drive without any problems. It is probably only courtesy to talk to your neighbours & ask if they have a problem with you parking on your drive.
As I understand it a motorhome is not a caravan, I think that it would be up to one of your neighbours to enforce the covenant but I don't know how they would do this. Has anybody had a problem with neighbours complaining about motorhome parking?


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## 91929 (May 1, 2005)

Round here there are covenants restricting caravans, boats (we live near the sea) commercial vehicles on the drives, also against putting up fences and walls except at the rear of the properties

We have space beside the house so when we moved here (after checking it out) I sited the caravan along side the house but kept the Land Rover Estate version on the drive, later when we went self employed we kept a 2500kg van with lettring on it alongside the house.

Now a plumber and a bulider keep vans on the drives in front of the houses, while other people keep various works vans on the road and one neighbour has had a fence errected fot 12 months.

It seems that the covenant has lapsed or is being ignored

You dont say but do you (like us ) use the MH as a car 
ie. going to work/shopping then you could claim it as your motor car - as it is registered.


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## Paulway (May 9, 2005)

From our experience check your covenant ours was only applicable for 'occupied' caravans, which meant we could park one but not live in it, this was tested in a court of law by the local authority, the case being found in our favour, thrown out actually, with costs awarded against the council.
Also I notice that some are saying that a Motorhome is a private car, check your V5c as, in our case, although the TAXATION class is PLG it is registered as a Motorised Caravan, so I believe technicaly it can be read as a CARAVAN with a motor!!


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

The definition of a motorcaravan is available definitively on the DfT website but it is very deep in the site and takes some searching....good luck.

nobby


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Just stick it up. Worst case scenario is that eventually someone official will ask you to move it but the chances of getting an official to get off his arse to do that is extremely remote bearing in mind how long it will take the police to come around for a break in. I have to say though, several houses on our estate have trade vans, sometime trade small lorries parked inside or on their driveway. It doesn't look to good but as my m\home is the biggest eyesore then it's best I don't say anything. Biggest thing on our estate is a coach driver who parks his coach there over night but not on his driveway of course. Over the years our estate looks like one enormous car park and as we did have at one time 6 cars outside we are one of the main culprits.


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## passionwagon (Nov 13, 2005)

*Covenants*

Interesting replies. 
Look at your house deeds to see how the covenant is written it is generally in schedule 2 or 3.
First check whether or not the restriction is part of the original planning permission-your local council will tell you but do not let them be confused with a caravan restriction which is only there to stop habitation-not parking. If they say it is meant to cover parking of MH ( very unlikely as such specific statements are unusual) then you will have to apply for planning permission alerting everyone to your need!
If the council say no then the enforcement is 
1- the person or company that put the covenant on the original land transaction i.e. could have been 50 years ago. They can enforce the covenant in the magistrates court but you can object and may get a symphthetic decision. [You can of course write to the covenantor and ask for a dispensation- has been done and generally costs nothing or £50.]
2-other residents who suffer the same covenant who as a group will need to take you to the magistates court etc. 
The idea of covenants is try and keep estates and developments from getting eyesores.
Any actions will cost these people money which they cannot get back from you. If they did start an action remember most houshold policies give cover for legal defence to £50000 on neighbour disputes!
What would I do? Park it on drive and await for any letters (ignoring the anonymous ones) and go from there-if someone is deteremined take it to the wire-there are no fines.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Hey guys, it looks like we may well have a lawyer on board  ;.
Welcome to MHF heacham1 and please stick around, I feel that your expertise will be of great help.
(What do you know about the legalities of evicting overstaying Mothers-in-law?)


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## nobbythehobby (May 9, 2005)

> Hey guys, it looks like we may well have a lawyer on board


Can't be a lawyer - No mention of fees and advice given far too succinctly. 

Nobby


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## 95603 (Jul 1, 2005)

Hello Paulway,

With reference your comment "So I believe technically it can be read as a CARAVAN with a motor" this was specifically discounted in my legal advice. A Caravan is specified as a trailer whereas a Motor Caravan is vehicle type code M - Motor Ambulance or Motor Caravan. 

The Taxation Class is Private and Light goods (PLG) and the Body Type is normally specified as Motor Caravan (Motor Home is not a formal body type). I would totally agree with you that a Motor Caravan is not a private car (eg. Taxation Class Petrol Car ). My comment related to how the Motor Caravan was classified as a private car for the purposes of the Feu. My mistake was to say that the Motor Caravan is taxed as a car whereas it has its own taxation class of PLG and is £165 pa . For that my apologies.

From previous comments on other forums it seems that the legal definition of a Caravan and Motor Caravan can vary when it comes to Covenants and Feu and I know of two cases where a Motor Caravan has been defined the same as a caravan and in breach of covenant conditions as a result. 

My legal advice was that my Motor Caravan which is under 3500 kgs can be driven on the road with a class B licence whereas a caravan over 750 kg has to be towed and needs a B+E licence (since January 1997).

Regards, 

Mike.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*DFT website*

you're right - it must be burried deep! Can find just about anything else!


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## 88927 (May 10, 2005)

Some years ago, in our last house, we had a caravan which we kept parked on the drive. No covenant existed, however a neighbour decided to report us to the local council for God knows what reason, and we duly had a visit by the official. He wrote to us asking a whole load of questions to which I responded that the best solution was for him to visit and satisfy himself as to the situation.
He arrived, refused to say who had complained but kept looking at next door. He agreed with me that I had not deprived them of their view of the local electricity board's substation due to their blinds being shut 24 / 7. Apparently he was concerned that during his official visit the week before he had noticed (next door's blinds being shut) and the fact that we had an electric cable connected to the van from the garage. I told him why this was connected and let him see into the caravan. All the bedding / seating was removed and stored upstairs for the winter so I assured him that no-one was living in the 'van as per the allegation.
Funny thing was that a couple of years later, just before moving, my neighbour didn't seem to see the funny side to my phone call to the council advising them that he had turned his garage into another room with direct access from the house........
What goes around comes around 

Keith


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

This local government link could throw the cat amongst the pigeons. I'm still looking for the definition of a motorcaravan but I've lost it!!!!!..

http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_pn/frame.htm

nobby


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

Schedule 2 para 8 gives a ministry definition of a motorcaravan.

And schedule 3 gives a definition for the fitting of seat belts to FORWARD FACING SEATS....as that is another often asked question. Sorry if this gets hijacked.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/downloadable/dft_roads_506814.pdf

nobby


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## 96566 (Oct 23, 2005)

I assume you must be a leasehold title.If so check out

http://www.lease-advice.org for advise

If not and you are a freehold title obtain a restrictive covenant insurance policy or appy to the Land Registry to have the covenant removed.

Either way you have more power than you think.

Kim.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

*Neighbours*

One additional bit of advice concerning your neighbours. Several people have suggested that you consult them, remember that if it gets acrimonious or becomes a dispute you have to declare it when selling your house. I know of at least one case where the seller was later sued (sucessfully I believe) for not disclosing this material fact during his sale. If you declare it the potential buyer may think you have troublesome neighbours and pull out of the purchase.

Regards Frank


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## Steptoe (Nov 8, 2005)

I was prompted by Rapido 561's picture of his new Kontiki on his driveway to fetch this out from the back of the box. :wink: 

In conversation today with a friend who is contemplating the purchase of a caravan (we will then have to come to a parting of the ways  ) he was adamant that the covenant on his bungalow only prohibited parking caravans forward of the building line, not MH's.

Just out of idle curiousity, Rapido, have you had any problems?


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Parking*



Steptoe said:


> I was prompted by Rapido 561's picture of his new Kontiki on his driveway to fetch this out from the back of the box. :wink:
> 
> In conversation today with a friend who is contemplating the purchase of a caravan (we will then have to come to a parting of the ways  ) he was adamant that the covenant on his bungalow only prohibited parking caravans forward of the building line, not MH's.
> 
> Just out of idle curiousity, Rapido, have you had any problems?


Hi

The van lives in a storage place full time. I get her out the day before I want to use her and then put her back when I have finished.

But yes, I have been advised by a busy body that it should not be parked there. She advised that the coventant stated caravans could not be kept forward of the building line. Anyway, to p*** her right off I put a coach there one day too.

I mean, what harm was Avalon doing!

The drive is long enough for her and wide enough for the Vectra to go alongside.

However, on a security point of view, I feel better keeping her behind razor wire, cameras, fencing and so on. When I keep her on the drive,Oscar and I sleep inside!

Rapide561


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

We park our Pollensa in the back garden. Before I did this, I spoke to neighbours on both sides to ask if they had any problems with this (for pictures, see the blog in the signature). I said even if they were slightly concerned, I would put it in storage. Neither (fortunately) had a problem.

My only ongoing concern is that to get the thing in the back garden, I have to use a paved road (access for a facility for disturbed children) to which I have no rights. All of us in the road have gates in our back fences, and use the road for delivery of heavy goods and removal of garden waste. I'm always anxious when moving the van in and out - I don't think it will be a problem unless I block the road to one of the authorised users whilst I'm manoevering in and out.

Like a lot of potential problems, I suspect the situation can be helped by being a good neighbour, and try to avoid anyone complaining.

Gerald


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## Bagshanty (Jul 24, 2005)

we have a covenant forbiddingus fromkeeping a caravan onthe site. A pain when we had a caravan, however we've kept a motorhome there for 17 years withnoproblems at all.


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## 89118 (May 14, 2005)

i had the same problem with a builder ,his covenent lasted 5 years so after 5 years i reckon i would be ok as long as no one complained , they did i moved to an older house and although covenents still exist no one seems to be as bothered infact theres one or two caravan , boats , etc around the estate and everyone seems happy enough.


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## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

I have read this thread with interest having just been painted as the 'neighbour from hell' when I applied to make my larger property into two smaller ones-each having four bedrooms so not the 'normal' size of a semi!. 

In letters of representation and at the subsequent planning application meeting, reference was made amongst other things to the 'very expensive mobile home' parked in the drive. The Chairman of the planning meeting said it was nothing to do with the planning application. 

On the deeds it does say 'no homes on wheels', no sheds, no businesses and no washing to be hung out except for domestic items. I tried to establish with the legal dept of the RAC was a motorcaravan a 'home on wheels' but without success. My solicitor then said that it could be termed a vehicle as it was taxed and insured to go on the highway.

What did turn up was the fact that there is a covernant that states 'only a single dwelling on the plot'. I am now in the process of trying to find the holder of the covernant to apply to get this restriction revoked. My problem is trying to find who the holder is. Can anyone give me any suggestion where I start looking?! I am doing the searching to reduce the workload of my solicitor who is also my business partner and friend who rarely gives me a bill!


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

kands said:


> Hi
> I think most covenants will only become enforceable if someone complains,
> Keith


I go with that  ask about and I am sure that unless you are turning your neighbours house into a black sun-free morgue they'd not object to you r weekend retreat parked on the drive 

Mine dont - although its only 16 foot long


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## baldlygo (Sep 19, 2006)

_Covenants can only be invoked by those who created them or their heirs (or, judging by Bluesbros' post, those who bought them) - and then only if they know they have been breached and can be bothered to do anything about it._

My understanding is in line with the above quote from >> This Web Forum Post << which came up when Googling.

We once had a problem with a neighbour removing the boundary between us despite there being a covenant on their deeds which stated details of the fence that they should have maintained. The covenant was between the original house buyer and the Football Club that sold them the land in the 1970s. In the mean time the Club had moved out of the area and no longer had any interest in their old covenant. We had no way to get the covenant enforced and eventually, after years of aggravation, had to move away ourselves.

Paul


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