# Smart box and warranty?



## 88724

Hi all

Why do you have to remove the smart box? 

I am getting the feeling that the warranty insurance would be void, if they knew you had fitted a smart box.

That being the case why are people openly happy to defraud the warranty insurance?

Should MHF allow the open incitement to commit, discussion and planning of criminal activities?


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## Enodreven

Hi, 

Nice subject,


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## 88724

Hi



> Nice subject,


Its a valid set of question's.

Or do you think it is OK for the incitement to commit crime, discussion and planning of criminal activities to be posted? but its not OK to ask how people feel about it?


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## nukeadmin

lol George, you never cease to amaze me for your openess to post what you know will be friction causing topics 

And no, I dont mind people discussing this subject, I in turn do not advocate removing smart boxes etc or installing them, but I am not going to stop people talking about their ideas about doing so, after all they are only ideas and not photographic damning proof :roll: lol


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## 88724

Hi Dave (Nuke)

Its an interesting topic as most doing this (and several other ilegal activities that have been discussed on forum) would probably consider themselves law abiding citizens.

The smart box thing with all this discussion of removing and refiting, it is obviously designed to keep the warranty people in the dark, a definate action whose ultimate purpose is to defraud the warranty insurance rather than anything inocently done.

My posts are designed to be _*provocative *_and not provoking in a negative way.

Edited to reflect the English lesson from Keith


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## 88927

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Dave (Nuke)
> 
> My posts are designed to be _*thought provoking *_and not provocative


I am now confused????
See the link and tell me where I am going wrong
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=63739&dict=CALD

Keith


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## Enodreven

Hi, George

You seem have bitten onto something that wasn't there ? I just thought it was a nice subject ??LOL


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## Steptoe

Now I've no wish to pour diesel on the fire to try to put it out, though I do enjoy listening to a good argument  , in fact my basic technology engine cannot be chipped and in any case it's warranty days are long past, but just out of curiousity, would Van Aaken's tweaking of the mechanical DI pump, which I am considering, have carried the same stigma in the eyes of the manufacturer as the fitting of a smart box.


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## 2point

Some pretty strong language used there - incitement, commit, defraud and criminal.

How many MH's actually use the warranty? My guess (not that much of a guess, I worked for Peugeot for 6 years) is not many. It is no coindience that the warranty periods have increased over the years, the components/processes are such that failure is unlikely after the initial period of ownership.

A poorly driven and harshly treated machine will have the same warranty as that of one treated with respect. I'd assume most MH owners would not drive their MH like a White Van Man, the extra strain of a SmartBox is likely to be less than that of a heavy right foot and hard cornering.

In summary a MH is not likely to use the warranty with or without the Smartbox.

By removing it they are just protecting their interests. I am sure that it is not a criminal activity to void a warranty.


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## 95384

George,
Do youreckon that Fiat's flat denial that there us a design problem with 5th gear on some Ducatos inspires confidence in people who own Ducato's? Maybe they know that Fiat will try to worm their way out of any claim, and feel they need to give them less justification to do so. When making a warranty claim I have never been asked if I have made any modifications, so providing that I didn't lie about having the smart box fitted and then removed I cannot see that this would be a criminal activity?


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## 88724

Hi 2 point

Within the warranty paperwork there is a disclosure section, if you do not disclose the alteration they are covering a different risk than what they thought they were.

Those that planned to kidnap baby Beckham, were done for planning a crime.

So at some point maybe they claim and should not and if they have no intention of ever claiming then why remove it?

Quote 2 point_*I am sure that it is not a criminal activity to void a warranty*_

No and if they leave it on, disclose the modification and void the warranty they would not be commiting a crime.

bb

Fiats denial is a seperate issue and a seperate company (warranty will be insurance company not Fiat), If the bank make you pay charges you dont rob the Post office to get even


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## patr

Fitting a Smart box will invalidate your warranty *if your van is still under warranty*. I took the trouble to ask Fiat and, as a result of their answer, I waited until my van was out of warranty. On reflection I wish I had fitted it earlier as the conditions of the warranty really did enter the realms of "not worth the paper it is written upon". :roll:

Therefore the question on removal if your van is still under warranty, with all of the legal/illegal implications, is a matter of personal choice and conscience for the individual.

It could be argued that such an action is fraudulent but IMHO no more or less fraudulent than the average standard of service you get from most, but not all, of the motortrade. I doubt if there are many on this forum who have not been the recipient of poor or non-existant service from garages and dealers and have paid hard earned money for work that has not been done.

For those owners who might change vans at a later date and would wish to remove and re-install the box on their new van, it is reasonable to ask how easy it is to remove and refit.

"_Should MHF allow the open incitement to commit, discussion and planning of criminal activities?" _

Crikey! You really should get out more often George.


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## 88724

Hi Patr

Hold the Phones!! the motortrade doing a bad deal, entitles people to defraud an insurance company? how does that work then? and even if it were the same company, 2 wrongs do not make a right.


Also the removal and refiftting was was specifically mentioned in conjunction with doing it before service or warranty work, not for later van.

Also Patr there are several other area's were a fair few people seem to think its OK bend the law (thats just a euphemism for committing crime)


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## 92180

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"*

I don't condone it but it is a personal judgement and that's the bottom line*


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## 95384

GeorgeTelford said:


> bb
> 
> Fiats denial is a seperate issue and a seperate company (warranty will be insurance company not Fiat), If the bank make you pay charges you dont rob the Post office to get even


I am not claiming that two rights make a wrong. I am pointing out that manufacturers will do their level best to avoid doing any work which they can make you pay for. If you had a smart box fitted and your suspension failed, you can be quite certain that the manufacturer would say - warranty invalid - you would need some special smartbox to destroy a suspension with the increased power. I would imagine that if this were pushed through the courts, the manufacturer would be force to play fair under the sale of goods act. However, removing the smart box before the warranty inspection would lead to the dealer carring out the work in the first place.

You have still not convinced me that 'not telling when you are not asked' is a crimnal offence.

hmmm - edit to say - two wrongs make a right


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## Raine

Hi, yep, we weren't bothered by the voiding of warranty because it wasn't worth much, but we wouldn't have not told them about the smart box either, cos we answer to a higher authority, our choice


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## 95384

Raine said:


> cos we answer to a higher authority, our choice


hmmm - does that higher authority have a different set of rules for speeding? I think I might join up :lol:


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## DABurleigh

Yes, I'm with asgard and Raine on this one. It is consistent, George, with my point in:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-108069.html#108069

What should a principled citizen do when s/he knows s/he has broken the law, by the way? 

And what should a principled citizen do when s/he observes someone else breaking the law?

Dave


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## Raine

Sorry asgard, we obey the law of the land (and i really do try not to speed , ade finds it a bit harder, so i just tell him , well mate your angels just j)umped off!) unless it conflicts with Gods that is! Our choice again.

sorry dab, a, rectify it, b tell em off or stop em, i usually say OI!!!! WOT U DOIN? and see what happens.
did you see i got 20% retail discount on the smart box! yo!!!!


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## 88724

Hi Raine

Does the higher authority only apply to certain laws? And yet you also say you obey the law of the land? Just not the ones relating to ripping off the insurance?


Dave, I am not sure what you are trying to say? are you saying that everyone should turn a blind eye to crime?

A principled citizen committing a crime?, isnt that a bit of a contradiction? 

Everyone

Is it OK to pick the laws you want to obey? Eddie was right there is a lot of double standards here

Law Abiding, criminals? Thats seems to be the attitude


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## DABurleigh

"Dave, I am not sure what you are trying to say? are you saying that everyone should turn a blind eye to crime?"

George,

No, I never said that. I referred you to a previous post as it summarises my view on this, and I asked a couple of what I thought were straightforward questions.

Dave


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## 88724

Hi Dave

How can they be straightforward?

Why is a principled person commiting the crime in the first place?

That is a contradiction, like all the "law abiding" citizens who are happy to rip others off.

With the second question does it depend on the crime? whether we should report it? or should we only report* real *criminals?


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## Raine

we asked our insurance about the box, and paid the extra premium, so just what is your probem?

:?:


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## DABurleigh

A principled person doesn't have to be a Saint, George.

Dave


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## 88724

Hi Raine

I asked about ripping off the warranty companies, removing the box is done to mislead the warranty companies.

But the Fiat dealers will not be worried if you left it on, why? because the Fiat dealer gets paid to do any repairs under the warranty insurance its the warranty insurance company who will be stitched not Fiat or Fiat dealers.

Problem Raine? I dont have one, its like Dave said its between the person and their conscience.

Hi Dave

_*A principled person doesn't have to be a Saint, George. *_

So true, but the thing is I am not pretending to be one.

BTW Your prose is fantastic, accurate, philosophical, subtle, biteing (sharp) and even humourous. Even the pun was passable.


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## 95384

GeorgeTelford said:


> Problem Raine? I dont have one


If you don't have a problem why did you come on and accuse Raine and others who have fitted smart boxes of being criminals?


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## 88724

Hi BB

I never said that fitting smart boxes made them criminals.

Criminal intent is shown though, can there be any other reason to hide the smart box from the insurer's 

BTW Warranty is insurance, vehicle insurance is a seperate issue


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## 88927

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi all
> 
> Why do you have to remove the smart box?
> 
> I am getting the feeling that the warranty insurance would be void, if they knew you had fitted a smart box.
> 
> That being the case why are people openly happy to defraud the warranty insurance?
> 
> Should MHF allow the open incitement to commit, discussion and planning of criminal activities?


Sorry to be pedantic but, along with bb695 I read this to be accusational or have we all misunderstood you George???

Keith


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## 88724

Hi Keith

If the Cap fits.......

Fitting a smart box doesnt make anyone a criminal. I have never said that it did, its deceiving the insurance (warranty) company thats a crime.


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## 88927

With 6500 cc's of Chevy V8 diesel power George I do not need any power enhancement.... So keep your cap and your accusation pal.
Regarding the rest, all I did was quote (all of it) your statement, so I am sorry if you think my statement implied that you had said any other.....

Keith


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## 88724

Hi Keith

You are not reading BB's post and my response correctly.

Wow Impressive Engine Keith, they say theres's no substitute for inches

But I didnt accused you of anything, the cap fits comment is in answer to your "are you accusing people" question


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## BERTHA

So, what;s the answer, my van needs a bit more power it is still under warranty or shall I wait 3 years until the warranty lapses


Hugh


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## DABurleigh

Hugh,

Only you can balance the values to you of the remainder of your Fiat warranty against the impact on your conscience of witholding from Fiat your use of a Smart Box.

The way I squared that circle was to resolve not to claim on the warranty if I felt that any damage was due to a moderate increase in power and torque, as that would be clear deception and fraud. However I was reluctant to give them carte blanche to wriggle out of reasonable warranty obligations by referring to a breach of the small print. I fully accept that it should be their decision and not mine, but in this modern world I felt my solution was just. Perhaps I'm kidding myself and a hypocrite, but the above is genuine. 

Dave


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## patr

Hugh

Do as you want, it is your decision. But remember that in doing so you will incur the wrath of the newly (self) appointed moral voice of MHF. Oh how I wish I had led such a blameless life.

I appreciate the technical answers that George has provided over the years. I genuinely missed his presence during his 'resting' period and am not so sensitive as to take offence at his often abrupt manner and dismissive attitude to those of us who are clearly less technically gifted.

I am however becoming bored with the sanctimonious tone that is creeping into his posts.

I subscribe to this site to seek advice and learn from others. I do not subscribe to be lectured on what is right or wrong.

Dave

That seems fair enough to me but no prizes for guessing who will object to your view. My decision was to wait until the van was out of warranty. Though, as I said before, the warranty was next to worthless and I wish I had installed the box earlier and benefitted from the transformation it has made to the van.

George

On another post regarding subscriptions you stated that Nuke was ", *not the new Messiah*" Is that because you see yourself in that haloed position?

You will not have forgotten that invidia or envy is one of the seven deadly sins!

Do promise us all that you will get out more often.


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## BERTHA

May I be so bold to point some of you on this thread to a post I posted earlier in the week and to put our reactions in to prospective.

I know how some of these threads go and yes, you, we and I can be rather irritating on times.

Coming back to this thread, I can understand the Smart Box could compromise the warranty but I am tempted to fit it on the basis that such is the weight of our van it is not going to give me, nor am I looking for extra speed but better torque through the gears.

I will tell the Insurance company just in case I did have a accident whether related to the extra grunt or not could cause a problem at least the worst that could happen with the warranty is I will have to buy the parts and fitting them myself.

And remember, if anyone entering posts in this thread are over 46 Years of age you should be setting an example to us youngsters

Hugh

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-12860-0.html


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## Drummer

patr said:


> I am however becoming bored with the sanctimonious tone that is creeping into his posts.
> 
> .


To be honest, I don't mind .... just so long as he doesn't turn up at rallies and bores the wheels off my car! :roll: 
Don't worry guys, its you thats normal! :wink:


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## 95384

Hugh - Have a look at Superchips. They do a similar kind of thing. They are more expensive, but they offer a warranty to cover anything which may be invalidated on the original manufacturers warranty


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## 88724

DaB

You have the wisdom of solomon

_*The way I squared that circle was to resolve not to claim on the warranty if I felt that any damage was due to a moderate increase in power and torque, as that would be clear deception and fraud. However I was reluctant to give them carte blanche to wriggle out of reasonable warranty obligations by referring to a breach of the small print. I fully accept that it should be their decision and not mine, but in this modern world I felt my solution was just.*_

Hi Patr

What name did you go under before?

_*Not the new messiah*_, lol, actually someone else said that refering to the almost religous dedication shown by a few of Nuke's acolytes (Oops I mean (a certain few) subscribers)

The reason for this thread, its a follow on from a Post by Edddievanbitz, when I looked at what he said regarding peoples attitudes to the law on this forum, people openly admitting to fiddling insurance companies, giving false details to obtain cover, driving ilegal set-ups, VAT evasion the list goes on.

Not so long back people would have been embarrassed to admit to such criminal activity now they justify it (Daves justification above is one of the few that are "acceptable" (in a strange kind of way))

Now it is as Drummer said "Normal", but please dont kid yourselves that its not criminal.


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## Drummer

GeorgeTelford said:


> Now it is as Drummer said "Normal", but please dont kid yourselves that its not criminal.


Your real name isn't T. Lloyd Jones, ex headmaster of my old school, is it?
He was boring, sancitimonious, humourless & pedantic.
The only differance is, he *knew* he was God & backed up his view with a thick black leather strap. To be accurate, he didn't need to use the strap, he just enjoyed it and *thought* he had a sense of humour.


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## Doubletread

George
Can I ask why in your original post you used the expression "warranty insurance"?

Les


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## peejay

OK guys!

No probs with friction causing topics as Dave said at the beginning - and in the main you've all stayed on an even - if sometimes heated - keel, but in reference to a few of the posts, lets not start drifting off into sniping and personal insult territory. 

Please keep it civil.

George, you have a pm.

pete.


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## Drummer

Deep apologies, my sense of humour ran out .... I've not been well you know :lol:


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## 88724

Hi Les

Yes the reason that I mention warranty insurance is this, warranties are administered by insurance companies.

I have to have the headlight cluster and Engine replaced under warranty, the decision on doing the work was decided on by the warranty insurance company who pays for the work, warranty cover is insurance cover.

Peugout rang them to arrange the hire car and everything else, the dealership get paid to do the work by the insurance company, before this I just thought it was the car company themselves (in as much as I had never really though about it!)

Drummer

I am not humourless, not even going to bother linking to many humourous posts I make.

or sancitimonious, this post is about those people who are sanctimonious while at the same time consider it OK to fiddle, the generally law abiding criminal???

pedantic, if hammering home factual information and reasoned opinion is pedantic, then I must be Guilty

I think we should avoid personal attacks, especially the pointless ones you have made above.


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## 88724

Hi Raine

*If* you had no intention of ever ripping off the warranty (insurance) company, *then* I most humbly apologise, *else* there would need to apologise.

Having re read your post

_*but we wouldn't have not told them about the smart box either, cos we answer to a higher authority, our choice*_

I am not sure what you are saying now, at first blush you didnt tell them about the Smart box cos you only answer to higher authority ( the Tony Blair defense? LOL) Which as I read it, said that you were quite happy to rip the insurance off (warranty not vehicle insurance)

But now I see there is a double negative *"we wouldn't have not"*

So only you know what you really meant and only you know whether the apology is really warranted.


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## Motorhomersimpson

> this post is about those people who are sanctimonious while at the same time consider it OK to fiddle, the generally law abiding criminal???


George I really do think you are close the edge with statements like this, you really cannot believe people are taking you seriously (there again maybe you are) after statements like this.



> if hammering home factual information and reasoned opinion is pedantic, then I must be Guilty


*Why* do you feel the need George, let people live their lives as they see fit, it serves no point at all you trying to carry on with this discussion as most people will just ignore you anyway.

That is probably for the best in my opinion, if you have no-one to discuss these matters with, there can be no discussion, you can then get back to helping people which you are very good at.

Please George concentrate on helping people using the vast amount of knowledge you have, rather than looking for confrontation, that will only end in tears.

MHS…Rob


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## 88724

Hi Rob

There is a strange tendancy here, to jump all over me with its the law if I mention running with gas on and yet on the other side of the coin its quite ok to break the law If others want to. Then its all about personal choice

Like Drummers post, if I had been personally insulting like that, it would have been modded and an email sent asking me to apologise.

As it is that was passed over and I got a PM asking me to consider my response and an apology to Raine.

Rob if you look around there are numerous posts were people openly admit to fraud amongst other things, misinforming the insurance companies, there was even one that was more or less coaching someone to get VAT free motorhome when they did not really qualify.

No I am not a Saint, my posts show that I am not.

But If I was to have a post supporting some dodgy close to the edge practice, some of the same people would be up in arms.


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## Doubletread

George
Thank for your reply I see you say: “Yes the reason that I mention warranty insurance is this, warranties are administered by insurance companies”.

If a manufacturer chooses to underwrite his warranty work, that is a matter between the manufacturer and the underwriter; it does not make the contract between a buyer and seller of the vehicle a policy of insurance in any way shape or form. There is not an obligation of ‘the utmost good faith’ between the buyer and seller of the vehicle as would apply to a policy of insurance. Some extended warranties may be purchased by the vehicle owner as a separate transaction as insurance policies, but you would need to examine the actual document to determine whether it was a policy of insurance.

Of course as I think nearly everyone who has made a post agrees, it is absolutely essential that the underwriter who provides cover under the Road Traffic Acts is informed if a smart box is fitted.

Anyway George you have raised an interesting issue, as can be seen from the number of responses. For what it is worth, and I reckon I have a fair experience in the law, I can see nothing wrong with someone removing a smart box from a vehicle before a service, there may be different considerations apply if a warranty claim is made, but my impression is that it is not a black and white issue at all, whether in law or morals. If this thread does nothing more than highlight YOU MUST TELL YOUR ROAD TRAFFIC INSURERS you have done a lot of us a service George. Also George, as I write this post, it does occur to me, if the insurance company has been told the smart box has been fitted, well the insurance company must be told if it is removed, even if that is a temporary measure, if the owner puts the vehicle on the road without the smart box. 

Les


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## 88927

Just for interest.

http://www.peugeot.co.uk/ppp/cgi-bin/ppkfcwebuk/ppplp1601_04.jsp#

http://www.peugeot.co.uk/ppp/cgi-bin/ppkfcwebuk/ppplpc1c3.jsp?_txtPageName=1601_04

Everywhere I have worked (not in the motor industry) any warranty on any product was in the first instance covered by the manufacturer of the item. I ran a service department for a multi national and ALL warranty was covered by the manufacturer, at no stage was "insurance" involved.
I think the insurance backed warranty system is basically for "used or second hand" items where the manufacturer is no longer liable for warranting their workmanship or materials, excepting safety recalls etc of course.
I am no expert on these matters but I just wanted to say that in 20+ years of being involved with manufacturers after sales organisations I have personally never heard of any manufacturer covering warranty with an insurance company. I am sure that someone can provide info to show me differently, and if that happens I will be happy that I have learned something, however the above is just my experience. Please note that ALL manufacturers will reject warranty claims if the item has been modified, whether it directly affects the failed component or not and this in my personal view is quite understandable and fair.
I hope this is helpful.

Keith


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## patr

Keith, 

George is absolutely right regarding some warranty plans being administered by insurance companies. 
Many vehicle manufacturers offer a 3 year warranty which is 1 year manufacturer/2 year dealer. The 2 year dealer warranty is underwritten by the dealer network. This partly explains why they go to inordinate efforts to wriggle out of warranty work as more claims means increased premiums. It also means that should you be unfortunate enough to breakdown on the Continent, warranty work can cause a real problem.

Other manufacturers have the confidence in their products to offer a full 3 year manufacturers warranty (or, in Hyundai's case, 5 years) which is one reason why our runabout is a Honda Jazz.

Pat


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## 88927

Thanks for that Pat, I did think that additional years were possibly covered by alternate means, however my own experience, again not motor trade, is that the manufacturer holds responsibility from the date of first use, as this limits any claims to the work being under their control totally.
Thanks again

Keith


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## peejay

George wrote;


> Like Drummers post, if I had been personally insulting like that, it would have been modded and an email sent asking me to apologise.
> 
> As it is that was passed over and I got a PM asking me to consider my response and an apology to Raine


LOL George, if you look back, I think you'll find it wasn't 'passed over' and I did in fact comment on this.

pete.


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## BERTHA

bb695,

Thank you for this, have you a link or something, I think this is quite Interesting that they will fill the gap caused by introducing a chip and the manufacturers warranty.

As for the rest of you, I would suggest we read the terms of any warranty and I would suggest this is a legal binding document because when you purchase a new MH then the warranty is part of that contract, like wise with Insurance.

However, if there was room for a different interpretation I suggest we look for prior similar judgements because it is only in a Court of Law can these judgements be made.

I fully accept that I could well in breach of the warranty and there could be major implications for me if I go ahead and install the Smart Box without written agreement of the supplier (Fiat)

Insurance is by far the biggest issue, if I am not covered then I am held legally responsible and is a criminal offence which bothers me a little more for sure.

Now, go to my new post and put your brains to work on my concerns lol 

Kind regards 

Hugh


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## 88724

Hi Keith

Yes it is interesting, Mine is a from New Peugout 18 moths old when engine put a piston through the crankcase and they had to get everything OK'd before the warranty work was done, could this be Peugeot specific?

Anyway my point is valid no matter who is being shafted be it the Warranty insurance or the Manufacturer.

Hi Les

I see your point, but even so it would be "your" duty to inform them of any modifications (fiat warranty etc), I read my docs and all mods have to be OK'd otherwise warranty is Void (regardless of whethor its pertinent)

The other interesting point is that insurance companies share info to prevent fraud, at some point maybe the Smartbox info filters through to the warranty insurers? 

Anyone

BTW if you ever get caught beware that insurance will be hellishly difficult and expensive to get insurance from anyone afterwards, you will wish it had been a drink driving conviction.

eg someone decided to not inform there insurance of a bike being stolen and simply replaced the bike, about 6 months down the line he got a letter from the insurance company cancelling his insurance on the new bike from midmnight a week or so hence, reason? they had discovered that the poriginal Bike had been stolen (from police/DVLA reports ??) 

Anyway upshot is that due to his moral turpitude only a few insurers would touch him at greatly infated prices (far worse than a DD offence)

turpitude, what a great word, I had to look it up, it even made word of the day weds 19th June 2002

turpitude;

1. Inherent baseness or vileness of principle, words, or actions; depravity.
2. A base act.


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## autostratus

patr said:


> ...........It also means that should you be unfortunate enough to breakdown on the Continent, warranty work can cause a real problem............Pat


On this point. The problems may arise when into the 2nd or 3rd year of warranty as I believe that it is usual for there to be only 1 year, at least in France.

When we had a major breakdown with our 8 month old Peugeot in France I was told catagorically by the Peugeot dealer in Perigueux that it would be repaired under warranty.
The arguement only started when Peugeot UK wanted to ship it back to England on a transporter and I said no, repair it in France.


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## sallytrafic

Interesting article in Today's Guardian Money section a quick precis: The sale of goods act requires that 'goods must last a reasonable time' and that is in spite of what people see as the limit implied by any guarantee or warranty. 

This may for some goods be six years (five in Scotland) and less in some other EU countries - no mention of motor vehicles in the article but unless the Sale of Goods doesn't apply.......


Regards Frank


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## Raine

who said we were ripping off the warranty people george, you certainly didn't see me saying we were!!!! i just said it wasn't worth much. I have blown my nose now, so thats ok!


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## Raine

i have just read thro m o s t of the back log, (been out taking mother in law to lunch down in poole) 

and YES i think you do owe me an apology George, you assumed quite wrongly that we were/had/going to! and we were not, are not, and never intended to, defraud the warranty people. its still not worth much. by the by even if it had been we still wouldn't. And no i don't pick and choose laws, and sometimes i do speed, BUT not intentionally and back off as soon as i realize that i am, sneeze sneeze, but as far as my concience is concerned i keep a short account! I'm not perfect, but getting there. 
i rest my plank!


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## Raine

Actually i have just read what you said again george, and i 'm gonna have to blow my nose REAL hard cos you certainly got up it, but hey ho, i'll get over it. SNEEZE


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## 88724

Hi Raine

Your post was rather ambiguous, especially mentioning only answering to a higher authority and not telling them about the Box, anyway thats sorted now.

Poole is a lovely place (was at least) I have not visited for years, last time we were there (ee when I were a lad) my Da took a bit of roof out on the petrol station/garage on the corner with our motorhome roof the owner kept signalling dad forward.

I couldnt get over no-one locking their homes up the only lock on the row was at the Laughing Cavalier Pub nest to our relatives house.


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## 88927

Keith hands Raine a large box of extra large tissues.....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## 89088

Have to agree with sallytraffic.

Warranties do not replace your statutory rights; they are in addition to these rights. ( Sale of Goods Act ). An amendment made to this Act takes into account durability of the goods.

As I see it, the vehicle warranty is there so that should the owner keep his/her side of the contract and have the vehicle serviced according to the schedule, then should faults occur, there need be no recourse to using the Sale of Goods Act to obtain satisfaction.

Regards trig


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## BERTHA

So, what shall I do then, by the way, what is the BHP for a 2005 Fiat 2.8JTD from what I can tell its 147 so will the smart box make a diffrence when it quotes an increase to 147 bhp 

Hugh


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## DABurleigh

Hugh,

You need to phone Van Aaken if you have a 146hp Fiat as their website only quotes the improvement on the less powerful engine. 

Is the 146bhp one available as standard on RHD, BTW?

Dave


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## BERTHA

I don't know Dave

Where else on the van can I find the bhp rating??

Many thanks
Hugh


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## patr

Hugh

If you look in your Ducato handbook it should list the engine codes in the specification chapters. This code should identify the engine type and is stamped on the vehicle ID plate in the engine compartment. It should also be on your bill of sale/warranty booklet.

If yours is the 146bhp then your vans performance should be better than you have been describing previously.

Dave is right re the Smart Box. Van Aaken only list the 127bhp upgrade. You might like to give TB Turbo a ring in Lancaster as they do a similar upgrade but actually write the programme for each individual van.

Phone 0152 467157 or tb-turbo.co.uk and speak to either Dave or Roy. I had a cam belt change there last month after I had fitted the box but might have had them do it had I known earlier. They are a very professional company, are Fiat Commercial specialists and if nothing else would be able to tell you how to ID your engine. I highly recommend them.

Pat


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## BERTHA

Thanks for that Pat, I shall investigate on the weekend will let you know

Regards
H


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## BERTHA

I couldn't wait, I could not finding anything in the log book or the sales sheet in terms of bhp but I have just found a brochure for 2005 and it states Fiat Ducato 18, 2.8jtd/servo Maxi Kw/HP 93/127

Is the HP 127 actually bhp 127 the same??

Regards
H


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## DABurleigh

Yes


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## 95384

BERTHA said:


> bb695,
> 
> Thank you for this, have you a link or something, I think this is quite Interesting that they will fill the gap caused by introducing a chip and the manufacturers warranty.


http://www.superchips.co.uk/superchips.php

http://www.superchips.co.uk/warranty.php


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## BERTHA

Thank you bb695

I like the look of the warranty that comes with the chip I am not sure van aitken offer the same

Hugh


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