# Uk Power supply



## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

UK electric not looking good at the moment

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

The grid is nearly maxed out and it's not really cold yet.
Coal generation (what is left of it) is nearly maxed out
Nuclear at its limit.
Gas generation can't go much further, Wind, not much of that about and solar is zilch.
Not much Hydro and that is only a short term fix
Low import from France and the Netherlands is giving as much as they can.
Poor Ireland who we normally export to is getting nothing.

Thank goodness I have a MH on the drive with full battery's and gas so I can debunk to that if the power goes off.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Plus that imported costing 10% more Oh Dear!

Dick


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I had lunch today with a friend who has a neighbour who runs a power station somewhere in the south midlands I believe. This is one of the older power stations that is mostly off-line but can be brought back up at short notice if required - I guess it's gas. Anyway when additional electricity is needed, National Grid asks offline energy providers to submit their tenders and the cheapest is selected. The upshot is that the prices that are being bid to provide additional electricity are far far higher than had ever been envisaged and this particular power station is now making more profits by being off-line than it ever was when it was working 24/7. Meanwhile of course we've subsidised solar and wind energy at great cost only to have to pay through the nose when it's cold, dark and the wind isn't blowing! And then even when the wind is blowing and the sun is shining we pay them more subsidies if we don't need their electricity because the demand isn't there because it's not cold enough!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That's pollys and officials for you. Stupid. Still I'm not complaining, I was a contractor for the MOD. Once I learned that they had no interest in being told how things could be done cheaply and effectively it all went swimmingly. It was still idiotic, but much more profitable.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

How have we have come to the situation were we have have to pay the owners of what were assets of the State NOT to produce electricity? Anyone else find it perverse?

Dick


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Because for far too many years too many people have complained about;

coal fired power stations - they produce waste

gas fired power stations - they produce waste

nuclear powered power stations - they produce waste that will be a problem for many, many thousands of years.....

wind powered power stations - they are upsetting as they may be in my line of sight if I chose to look that way....

solar powered power stations - cut down on agriculture, even though sheep can be safely grazed below the panels....

water powered power stations - because they disturb the flow of water and may disrupt salmon fishing....

but these self-same people continue to go home, switch on their lights and electric heating, turn their TV off standby and leave it on, turn on the charging for the electric car, switch on the electric blanket, take off their pullover or jumper 'cos they are too warm, they use electricity as if it is going out of fashion and they have no regard for how it is produced.

Even those advocating electric cars forget that the power has to be generated, then transmitted and then stored and no energy conversion (from one form to another) is efficient, some are notoriously INEFFICIENT (as an aside, the most energy expensive form of transport is EITHER rocket powered or HELICOPTERS depending on which account you read) but consider the NASA's Crawler-Transporter which was used to move the Shuttle from storage to the launch pad. It used diesel fuel and has one of the highest fuel consumption rates on record, 150 US gallons per mile (350 l/km; 120 imp gal/mi). The RN aircraft carrier "Ark Royal" did 12 FEET per gallon of fuel......

So too many people are inconsiderate of the energy they waste and yet complain if there are proposals to generate any IMBY.....

Dave


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Yep!

It's everyone ELSE who needs to economise on fuel usage isn't it?

Mrs Plodd works in an office where many have had their central heating on for over a month already. They simply refuse to believe that our annual combined fuel bill is about 30% of theirs but we don't switch the heating on and leave it on. If it's really chilly it goes on otherwise we switch the gas fire on in the lounge. Can't see the point in heating the rest of the house that is unoccupied 90% of the time. 

I have also, over the last few years, replaced ALL of the house lights with LED ones. It's amazing how much our electricity consumption has dropped as a direct result.

Until the lights go out many profligate users of energy will not even realise we are heading for a cliff.

successive governments signing up to ludicrous carbon emission levels (stand up Ed Miliband!) and equally ludicrous subsidies for windmills, (not going to mention solar 'cos I have panels on my roof) and failing to commit to building more generation facilities haven't helped the situation at all.

IF (when?) the lights do go out the Plodd household is equipped with a number of rechargeable LED lights, a gas fire, and a gas cooker so will be able to cope reasonably well. If it gets too bad we shall migrate into our caravan on the drive (gas heating, LED lights, excellent insulation, lovely and cosy) but of course that is a very short term solution. 

Andy


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Dick, we got to this situation thanks to privatisation, subsequent lack of investment and ineptitude of our politicians, yes it is perverse but not unknown for the most inefficient generators to drop load when not required.

The National Grid have many options available to them before the lights go out via domestic load shedding. Options like Frequency Response and Operating Reserve are available. 
These measures and others are also widely used here and by other countries grid systems to cover shortages due to system trips or sudden unplanned demand. 
Whilst it's expensive to call on reserve generation and/or pay availability charges, it's still cheaper than paying the operating costs of standby plant and staff 365 days a year. It's not unknown for plant to be requested by a System Operator only to find it's not available, even though availability payments were being made, the shxt hits the fan then.

European inter-connecters have also been seen as a reliable backup, but there again we're about to screw that friendship up, and it's likely such trading will become even more expensive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_Reserve_Service

Terry


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Hello load-shedding! 2013-2015 SA went through many hours of soul destroying load-shedding (2 hours per day, every day). If there's anything that disrupts the economy it's that and a total ****-ache for business and industry. Restaurants had their power shut down just as the lunch crowd was coming in. Power that was supposed to be off for 2 hours, blew out at 2:08 minutes and stayed off another 45 minutes, set sub-stations on fire. Power surges annihilated phones, TV's, computers, et al by the millions. Industry couldn't switch production lines off and on again in the middle of the afternoon. Banks and shops in malls couldn't stay open because it was dark in the middle of the morning and the cash tills and credit card machines didn't work anyway. Lost productivity/production/profits were huge! Families came home from work and school, had to pull the gas ring out of the camping kit in the garage, couldn't do homework or make dinner in the dark. Do you know how boring it is sitting in the candlelight for >2 hours unable to read sew listen to music talk on the phone. many folk bought a genny/inverter. Bottom line? Power consumption dropped by more than 10% to manageable levels, so then to compensate they put up the electricity tariff by 17% pa for 5 years! Economise consumption now or pay the penalty! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I remember the power cuts during the dreaded three day week, and I have NO desire to go through that again.

Andy


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Interesting that a programme I was listening to a couple of weeks ago was talking about the dire situation in France where all their eggs are in one nuclear basket and there are so many nuclear power stations offline at the moment for safety and technical reasons. UK were exporting to France via the Interchange but clearly would not continue to do so once the weather in UK got colder.

http://www.powermag.com/frances-nuclear-storm-many-power-plants-down-due-to-quality-concerns/

(Edit to add: this is from an American magazine. The date is 1st November 2016)

Then there is Spain, where huge investment in alternative energy sources have meant that they pay a lot- highest price per unit in Europe ?- for their domestic supplies.

Do they still have laws in Italy which govern the date when you can legally turn on your domestic heating ?


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

HermanHymer said:


> Hello load-shedding! 2013-2015 SA went through many hours of soul destroying load-shedding (2 hours per day, every day). If there's anything that disrupts the economy it's that and a total ****-ache for business and industry. Restaurants had their power shut down just as the lunch crowd was coming in. Power that was supposed to be off for 2 hours, blew out at 2:08 minutes and stayed off another 45 minutes, set sub-stations on fire. Power surges annihilated phones, TV's, computers, et al by the millions. Industry couldn't switch production lines off and on again in the middle of the afternoon. Banks and shops in malls couldn't stay open because it was dark in the middle of the morning and the cash tills and credit card machines didn't work anyway. Lost productivity/production/profits were huge! Families came home from work and school, had to pull the gas ring out of the camping kit in the garage, couldn't do homework or make dinner in the dark. Do you know how boring it is sitting in the candlelight for >2 hours unable to read sew listen to music talk on the phone. many folk bought a genny/inverter. Bottom line? Power consumption dropped by more than 10% to manageable levels, so then to compensate they put up the electricity tariff by 17% pa for 5 years! Economise consumption now or pay the penalty! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


Got an education when an engineer from a South African network company visited us, at the time their biggest headache regarding interruptions in supply was when overhead HV lines were deliberately short circuited by thieves who climbed the towers to steal the copper and aluminium lines once they tripped out the substation breakers, they knew the breakers would not try to reconnect automatically due to an inbuilt delay for 10 minutes. Their method to dissuade the thieves was to program the breakers to vary the reconnection time lag, frying the thieves was their solution. :surprise:

Terry


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