# Control Panel Confusion



## Selseybob

I've recently collected my Ace Airstream 630EW back from the dealer for the fourth time after being with them for 10 weeks. Although I've had most issues resolved now I still have concerns with the electrical system and control panel in particular and I'm hoping other owners of similar vans (Bolero, etc) or even a Swift representative can shed some light on this by comparison. I really can't face taking it back to the dealer again, it's a 200 mile trip and I've lost confidence in them now.

Having had the original control panel, fuse/relay board, battery charger and habitation battery replaced already, the control panel has just been replaced again only this time with a more complex (possibly newer?) version that has options for heating timers and air conditioning control (not fitted in mine). The owners manual refers to the original unit as the NE 183.03 and this more complex unit as simply the NE 183. The original panel controlled the water pump, awning light, entry light and internal lights on the left-hand side with the right hand side was used for menu navigation. It's operation was simple (when it worked) and when the panel was turned-on then everything in the van just worked too. This latest replacement panel has the functions overlaid on top of each other on the right and has additional heating/timer facilities on the left. I was briefed by the dealer's workshop manager and fitter and told that only one of the buttons was used to activate the heating/hot water as I have a combination boiler (I think it's a Truma Ultrastore if that's a combination boiler?). Ok that's understandable to an extent, but they then went on to explain that the hob ignition was also enabled under the lower left button which I've now learned is described as the water heater control in the manual. Ok, that's a bit odd as I never needed a switch to turn on/off the hob ignition before and it seems a bit pointless, but I scratched my head and reluctantly accepted it.

I thought at first having a timer facility and some fancy new buttons was a bonus but I've since read in the forums that the timer facility won't work anyway. I haven't tried yet but am pretty sure I'll get the same red light problem as another owner experienced although that's not the immediate problem either.

Having taken the van away locally for a "confidence check" last weekend, I decide to unplug from the mains to see how the habitation battery would hold up, only to find I lost TV reception. Checking things through I discovered by chance that the TV booster is now controlled by the Air-conditioning button which becomes disabled when not on 240v, hence no TV on 12V operation.

So, basically my operation now is that I have to enable hot water and heating by the space-heating button, the hob ignition by the water heater button and the TV booster by the Air-Conditioning button which only works when on 240v!

Now I really can't accept that this is in any way correct so I'm asking if anyone else who has had similar experience of this or can describe how theirs operates can let me know here. I do know of the reliability problems with these Italian supplied units but was under the impression that there was a firmware update/modification for the original version so this different version came as bit of a surprise and to be honest, I'd rather have the original simpler version.

My van is an Ace Airstream 630EW on a 58 plate but believe it may be a 57 model and I've owned it from new. To be honest, my wife is sick of the sight of it and would rather have the money back but if I can get to the bottom of this control panel mystery then I think we can start to get some proper use out of it as we covered more mileage going to and from the dealer in the first year than we did going away.

Any feedback appreciated! (Good or bad).


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## grahamw

I had a Bolero 630EW motorhome back in 2007 on an 07 plate which had the N183 control panel.

I had lots of contact directly with Swift who apologised for the control panel and did state that there was an error in the design of the onboard electrics which the control panel was unable to handle. The main control PCB under the bench seat was basically flawed. The net outcome was that the timed heating would only work on electric and not gas if I remember correctly.

Swift could do a modification which simply abandoned any timer function at all. Swift did provide me with a detailed statement of how the control panel should function in its flawed form which I found to be useful and accurate. The following year I noticed Swift had started to fit a simplified control panel, presumably the same as the original one in yours. This simply abandoned the feature of timer control. I no longer own the motorhome but do not recall any of the side issues that you refer to with 12v TV and so on. I sure you have got the earlier control panel which really should not have been fitted and which may well be incompatible with other modifications made to the electrics in that year.

I suggest you contact Swift directly about the replacement control panel listing exactly the oddities that you are experiencing. I'm sure you will find them helpful.

Graham


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## andymac

I own the exact same model bob that you have, yes the timer function does not work, although there is a mod kit that sargent will sell to you that enables this function to work. My control unit AFAIK has no effect on the hob ignition. Ive never tried to switch on my TV booster off hook up, but I will try it and get back to you, I certainly dont have to have any heating buttons activated to enable my TV booster. Swift are on holiday now but I would definately put a post on there forum about this.

http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum

Regards
Andy


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## joedenise

Selseybob

I take it your TV works on 12V and not just 240V - if it's not a 12V model it definitely won't work when not on EHU.

Joe


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## stewartwebr

I have had quiet a bit of experience with these panels when I owned my Swift Motorhomes. It sounds to me as if the dealer has replaced your panel with the older model.

In my 2007 van it was fitted with the panel which was supposed to control your heating (I did get Swift to do a mod on my van and it actually worked) and a button to control the optional AC. This panel was replaced with a newer panel in the 2008 models which was much simpler without the heating and AC buttons.

So it sounds very much like they have replaced your panel with an older model.

I would get back to them and tell them you are not happy and you want the model of panel that your van should have.

Both had a number of fauts and have been replaced with a completely different panel in the 2009 vans

Stewart


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## CliveMott

The catalogue of ACE Airstream electrical quirks is extensive. One customer got so brassed off he even threatened to set fire to his van outside Swifts factory, it was in their local paper.
One customer insisted that I look at his van myself at a show which I did. I saw for myself various things take place that should have not taken place. Lights comming ON and OFF by themselves for example.
I believe that the electrical system was changed later but I would like to know if any disatisfied customers have had a permanent solution to their electrical problems in these vans.

C.


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## grahamw

Hi Clive

I don't think the problem could have ever been resolved simply because there appears to have been a design error made. The Truma heater fitted used a common heat exchanger for heating hot water and blown air heating. If you had blown air heating on then you automatically got the water heated as well. If you just selected hot water then it merely ensured that the heater fan blower was not turned on. So then to interface this Truma heater with a control panel which gave timed independent control of both hot water and heating is asking the Truma heater to do something it was not designed to do. It could only do heating and hot water or hot water. Basically the modification done by Swift simply bipassed the timer and gave manual control of the heater. I didn't have the mod done and could set the timer to turn on the heating low (with hot water) at 6 am which was useful. In fact despite its flaws the timer was a very nice feature.

The other problem was with the habitation door light which was supposed to self extinguish when the engine started. It often did but would also turn itself back on on a very random basis. The modification here by Swift was simply to disable the feature and leave the control of the light to its switch which brought peace to all.

Graham


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## Pixelpusher

The NE183 control panel is indeed a poor piece of design - by an Italian company no less!!. Equally bad is Swifts decision to keep installing this and other items with known defects.

It took me over two years to get Swift to corrrect all the faults on my van, including the control panel issues. After a visit to Swift I began to believe that they would improve their quality control for future vehicles but comments here and eslewhere don't convince me they reallly have.

Initially I had two problems associated with the control panel.

1. The timers for Hot Water and Heating didn't work.
2. The entry light would randomly come on - even when flicking the headlamps or wipers.

All the timer would do on EHU was turn on the fan. I was told intially that this is how it was intended to work - useless in my opinion.

After much persistence they admitted a design problem and eventually retrofitted some control boxes to provide the timer function. It seems though that this is not a standard option and later models still have the problem despite the manuals being supplied indicating that there is a timer function. At the time of purchase I was told about this function at the NEC even though Swift knew it didn't work.

There is still an issue with the timer function in that it won't work if you get an alarm about Empty Fresh Water or Full Waste Water tank. You need to clear this alarm for the timer to work. Of course a slight movement of the van can cause the alarm to trigger again.

As for the entry light problem, Swift couldn't fix this and eventually de-activated the control.

And of course the famous Fiat Reverse problem - known to Swift and others but still supplied none the less.

Colin


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## Selseybob

Well thanks to everyone that replied. The feedback here suggests that the van has been fitted with an older version of control panel which having just been away again this weekend I can see is indeed flawed, not to mention the whacky way it works now.

It was extremely hot and on the Saturday afternoon and when the temperature inside the van started to rise I noticed the hot water had de-activated (no lights on the truma panel). Because a similar situation had occured when collecting the van from the dealer I turned my attention to the digital panel where it's possible to pre-select the operating temperature for water/heating via the indoor thermostat above the door. OK it was set to 26 degrees C so I adjusted it up to it's maximum of 30 degrees. Still nothing, why?........

because the temperature in the van was also 30 degrees!!!

So, with and indoor temperature of 30 degrees plus, which is quite probable if abroad, I can't have any hot water. I also noticed that the water pump LED started to flicker and then went out completely.

I will be speaking to the dealer tomorrow in the hope that they will replace it again with another like the original version (only working), however, as it took them weeks to locate this one I don't hold out much hope.

Thinking about it, the reason the van was with them so long in the past is because of the absurd stance that Swift will not send them a replacement part until they receive the faulty one back (to verify that it's faulty). I struggle to understand this but that's the way it is apparently. I'd really love to hear from one of the Swift chaps who get on here to verify this - it's lunacy to me!

They also told me that the control panel and fuse/relay circuit board will only work as matching pairs ie. an older version with an older version and newer with newer.

Can anyone verify this or is this rubbish? I personally suspect that any control panel will work with the fuse/relay board but clarification would be appreciated.

I can honestly say that I've never received such a prolonged and complicated repair procedure to a vehicle in my life. After all, how difficult can it be to obtain a working control panel prior to fitting it?

Someone mentioned that Swift are now closed but can anyone say when they will "re-open"?

Thanks in advance


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## Hezbez

Selseybob said:


> Someone mentioned that Swift are now closed but can anyone say when they will "re-open"?
> 
> Thanks in advance


According to the Swift Forum they reopen 16th August.

http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/summer-holidays


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## CliveMott

Not all Italian electrics are similarly aflicted. CBE equipment is fitted to many vans for example and is (unless you tell me otherwise) quite predictable and reliable.

C.


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## airstream

*control panel failure*

Hi,
My Ace 2008 model control panel has just failed again for the 6th (i think) time not a major issue it shows no charge to the battery when its being charged seems to fail in this way or showing a massive charge when not charging
Both fresh and waste water indicate empty when full and vice versa
Will book in on return as warranty end in December - however Swift have advised me that if I have more probems with the electrics post warranty they will "look at"
regards Ray


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## Hezbez

*Re: control panel failure*



airstream said:


> Hi,
> My Ace 2008 model control panel has just failed again for the 6th (i think) time not a major issue it shows no charge to the battery when its being charged seems to fail in this way or showing a massive charge when not charging
> Both fresh and waste water indicate empty when full and vice versa
> Will book in on return as warranty end in December - however Swift have advised me that if I have more probems with the electrics post warranty they will "look at"
> regards Ray


Sorry, if I'm stating the obvious and you've already done it -
but have you tried rebooting the panel?

On the few occasions our NE183 has played up we've rebooted it and it's worked perfectly.

Just a thought.


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## airstream

*yup*

Yes to reboot,
We have had 5 fuseboxes 5/6 new control panels and 3 battery chargers since we purchased the van
We are not alone in this in fact others have had more replacements
than us
Major issue now is that Swift want the faulty one returned to them, they then send the unit to Italy for repair last time it took six weeks for our fuse box to be fixed returned to dealer
Prior to Swift kicking the manufacturer out it was a 4/5 day turnaround - courier pick up and return 
Regards Ray


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## Selseybob

Thanks Ray, I'm really starting to get the big picture with this now and can take some consolation in that I realise I've had the same problems but only not as bad. I've had 3 battery chargers, 3 control panels and I believe 3 fuse board/relay units although the latter's a bit sketchy. I also had (but it went way) an intermittent problem with the wipers where the would get stuck halfway across the screen and stay there. FIAT in comparison have been brilliant and are replacing the management computer but after reading these forums I now think this could be related to the hab control panel as well.

As I've said, having had an older style panel fitted last time, I have some peculiar issues (like no hot water if the van temperature is above 30 degrees and no TV on mains. The dealer has stated they really don't know what to do if this latest replacement (on order?) doesn't work in my particular van - apparantly they couldn't get the original (newer) replacement to work last time with my existing fuse board due to compatability problems and are now out of ideas.

It strikes me that Swift don't seem to be given my particular dealer much support. They can't give any firm dates for action either, even for just dispatching the parts!

I've fought hard against my wife's opinion with this farcical situation but have given in the fact that we should now take legal advice. After all, we've just missed most of this summer and missed last year's too because the van was back for repair at the dealer - and it's still not right.

I'm even thinking of putting a video on Youtube to illustrate the problems first hand. It probably won't do me any good personally when I come to trade/sell the vehicle but at least it might give other potential owners an insight into what they could be getting themselves into!!!

I sympathise with every other Airstream owner!!!

Do Boleros and Bessacarr's also suffer the same problem or is it just us unfortunate souls?

Regards

Bob


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## petergj

*NE183 Control Panel*

Our "07" Sundance 590RS also made numerous trips back to the Dealers (Spinney) for problems with the Control Panel (NE183) and Distribution Board. Both items were replaced and worked for a while before problems started again ie. step not operating - no pump or lighting. 
Spinney suggested replacing the Communications Cable between the two items but a fellow "Swift" owner advised me to remove the panel and disconnect the two cables plugged into the rear of the control panel - in effect "re-booting" the system. This did work for a period before a repeat was required. 
Our new "10" reg has a totally new system which so far has operated ok but does not seem to incorporate "on-off timing control" for the heating system.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Hi,

This is for the 2010 range.






Peter


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## Dunnydeerdons

*Motorhome Novice*

I have just purchased a Hymer 562 Silverline and just coming to terms with how much there is to learn but could someone please advise me if the water tank is seperate from the boiler and how do you empty these tanks.


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## dotwilk

*Swift electrics*



Selseybob said:


> Thanks Ray, I'm really starting to get the big picture with this now and can take some consolation in that I realise I've had the same problems but only not as bad. I've had 3 battery chargers, 3 control panels and I believe 3 fuse board/relay units although the latter's a bit sketchy. I also had (but it went way) an intermittent problem with the wipers where the would get stuck halfway across the screen and stay there. FIAT in comparison have been brilliant and are replacing the management computer but after reading these forums I now think this could be related to the hab control panel as well.
> 
> As I've said, having had an older style panel fitted last time, I have some peculiar issues (like no hot water if the van temperature is above 30 degrees and no TV on mains. The dealer has stated they really don't know what to do if this latest replacement (on order?) doesn't work in my particular van - apparantly they couldn't get the original (newer) replacement to work last time with my existing fuse board due to compatability problems and are now out of ideas.
> 
> It strikes me that Swift don't seem to be given my particular dealer much support. They can't give any firm dates for action either, even for just dispatching the parts!
> 
> I've fought hard against my wife's opinion with this farcical situation but have given in the fact that we should now take legal advice. After all, we've just missed most of this summer and missed last year's too because the van was back for repair at the dealer - and it's still not right.
> 
> I'm even thinking of putting a video on Youtube to illustrate the problems first hand. It probably won't do me any good personally when I come to trade/sell the vehicle but at least it might give other potential owners an insight into what they could be getting themselves into!!!
> 
> I sympathise with every other Airstream owner!!!
> 
> Do Boleros and Bessacarr's also suffer the same problem or is it just us unfortunate souls?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Bob


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## dotwilk

Hello 

We are approaching 2y11m of Warranty on a 680FB
Usual history --more electrical problems than not
lerUmpteen chargers, a boiling battery, now with the Dealer for a repalacement Control Box.

No confidence that a satisfactory outcome (long term reliability) is going to come -- I am preparing to go to Court

----Lots of folk have talked about it ANYONE BEEN THER YET ???

Sue the ealer call Swift as a Witness is the prescribed method

Which piece of Law which court ?????

Regards
Peter Wilkinson


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