# Change in rules for pets going abroad



## The-Cookies

saw this on another site

here


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## geraldandannie

It looks like the only change for us is that there would be no tick treatment before return to the UK. Worming would still need to be done 1-5 days before coming back, which needs the visit to the vet and checking in with the ferry / chunnel company.

Gerald


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## ardgour

At long last someone has seen sense, the thing that has made me reluctant to take our dog overseas again was the sheer quantity of medication she ended up having - some of it for purposes of the regulations rather than health. 
The French vets are probably lobbying to keep things as they are - it has been a lucrative income stream for them

Chris


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## madontour

Good news for us. Having 5 days from vet to ferry means we won't have to dash through France the way we do now.


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## geraldandannie

ardgour said:


> The French vets are probably lobbying to keep things as they are - it has been a lucrative income stream for them


We'll still have the vet's fees to pay - all we'll save is the cost of the worm treatment. So the expensive bits - €30 or so for the visit to the vet, and £30 extra for the check at the Eurotunnel port - still stand.

Gerald


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## Rapide561

*Dogs*

Don't forget - free for dogs Folkestone - Calais with Eurotunnel, £30 inbound.

P&O - £15 inbound.

Might be worth a little shop around - for example, tunnel out and ferry in.

I would prefer the tunnel though as you and the dog are together.

Russell


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## Rosbotham

geraldandannie said:


> ardgour said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French vets are probably lobbying to keep things as they are - it has been a lucrative income stream for them
> 
> 
> 
> We'll still have the vet's fees to pay - all we'll save is the cost of the worm treatment. So the expensive bits - €30 or so for the visit to the vet, and £30 extra for the check at the Eurotunnel port - still stand.
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

Well yes, but if it gets extended to 5 days the location of that vet visit becomes a lot more flexible.


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## patp

There was talk of allowing vet nurses, or even pharmacists, to administer the tapeworm treatment, which should bring the cost down if only because the competition is greater. Let's keep our fingers crossed.  

It is good for us with an, as yet, un-passported puppy that she will not have to have the blood test and can re-enter the uk 21 days post vaccination if I read it right? 

In the future (post retirement) we will be able to go to Morroco, if we so choose, and only have to spend 3 months in mainland Europe before re-entry into the uk is allowed.

Although I like the freedom it gives us, I do worry about those nasty tapeworms and tick-born diseases becoming endemic in the uk. Let's hope the scientists have done their homework :?


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## Spacerunner

Its definitely a move in the right direction. 
Also no blood test required which is the most expensive part of the Pets Passport system. And only 21 days as against 6 months wait.

I now have to wait till January to start searching for my new best friend


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## geraldandannie

Spacerunner said:


> I now have to wait till January to start searching for my new best friend


I thought I was your best friend, John? :wink: :lol:

Good luck on the search 

Gerald


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## geraldandannie

patp said:


> In the future (post retirement) we will be able to go to Morroco, if we so choose, and only have to spend 3 months in mainland Europe before re-entry into the uk is allowed.


Now there's a thought ...

Gerald


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## Spacerunner

geraldandannie said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I now have to wait till January to start searching for my new best friend
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I was your best friend, John? :wink: :lol:
> 
> Good luck on the search
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

You're too embarrassing when you sit in the road and lick your........ 8O
:lol:


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## HeatherChloe

Rosbotham said:


> Well yes, but if it gets extended to 5 days the location of that vet visit becomes a lot more flexible.


Sounds way more flexible.... my Eurotunnel at Easter was booked for 2pm on Mayday Bank Holiday and it was rather difficult to find a vet open between 2pm on a Saturday afternoon and 2pm on a Sunday afternoon.

Luckily, I saw the vet at 12.30pm Saturday (many vets close at 1pm on Saturday) and he wrote on the passport that I had seen him at 6pm - sounds like a minor change but technically I think he committed fraud in the passport and broke the law.

In future, this won't be necessary. Also, allowing 5 days means that you can go to a wider range of vets, further away from Calais, and thus it'll probably be cheaper.


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## me0wp00

it seems good news for my parents who could possibly take their dogs over to the uk when they go on holiday there. They are rabies'd jabbed anyway so it'll save them the blood test. 
My mum told our vet who was quite distressed by it (we're about 6 hours from calais) as he said he'd be losing alot of income as he opens on Saturdays and sometimes sundays to *help* English people :roll: with their return home and hadn't heard anything about it from the French 
could someone please tell me if at the moment you have to worm/tick them in the uk to bring them to france or is it just returning to uk ?
thanks
Pippa


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## Sprinta

my 2 had their blood tests last night  I really didn't like to see them so frightened, it's not like a quick jab when they have their annuals.

I wonder *IF *their tests come back negative will this now mean we won't need to have them redone - like we would expect to had I not seen this?


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## Sonesta

How does it stand re taking your pets to non listed countries such as Morocco? We long to return to Morroco - but due to the pet passport rules and regulations, sadly we have been unable to return to this fabulous country since we got our 2 little dogs? 

Sue


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## Patty123

Good news, we are hoping to get a Pug brother or sister for Betty in September/October and was expecting to have to wait until April at the earliest to travel abroad with it, so with the new ruling will be able to go earlier, fantastic.


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## Rosbotham

Sprinta said:


> I wonder *IF *their tests come back negative will this now mean we won't need to have them redone - like we would expect to had I not seen this?


That's the issue that intrigues me. Some blood tests do come back saying negative for the antibodies...which I guess in principle means either the jab failed, or that it isn't effective _yet_ (I thought in general the former). I seem to recall at least one poster on here said their vet suggested doubling up on the rabies injection to avoid this eventuality.

If the jabs don't work first time on some dogs, presumably in absence of the blood tests this wouldn't be picked up and the dog (and society) would be unprotected.

Is the logic that statistically this will be a small number of dogs multiplied by low probability of the unprotected dog coming into contact with a rabid dog, so risk worth taking?

Paul


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## HeatherChloe

Sonesta said:


> How does it stand re taking your pets to non listed countries such as Morocco? We long to return to Morroco - but due to the pet passport rules and regulations, sadly we have been unable to return to this fabulous country since we got our 2 little dogs?
> 
> Sue


Morrocco is not on the list of good countries.


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## jonegood

On a slight tangent - Is this the first euro-ruling ever to relax a regulation?


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## leseduts

From what I understand. this is not a relaxation of a EU ruling. The UK has had an exemption from the ruling for the last few years, and we are coming into line with an existing ruling, except for the tapeworm treatment, which is still being discussed.


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## The-Cookies

maddening for us cos we want to go now, this year, but doesn't matter if we have it done now or when the rules change, earliest we will get to go is late January grrrr, unless we go now and don't come back for 6 months.


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## patp

Sonesta said:


> How does it stand re taking your pets to non listed countries such as Morocco? We long to return to Morroco - but due to the pet passport rules and regulations, sadly we have been unable to return to this fabulous country since we got our 2 little dogs?
> 
> Sue


If you go to Morocco you will have to spend three months now in a country that is part of the Pet Passport Scheme before being allowed back into the UK. It used to be six months.

Pippa - it is not a requirement to tick/flea your pet before entering France or Europe only on entering the UK. The UK is free of certain worms and tick born diseases that are present in some parts of Europe.


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## Rosbotham

patp said:


> to tick/flea your pet before entering France or Europe only on entering the UK. The UK is free of certain worms and tick born diseases that are present in some parts of Europe.


Legally you don't need so, but it's advisable to do so. That's the daftness of the whole thing...it's advisable to tick/flea/worm before you go out from a medical standpoint; you're legally obliged to on the way back in, so the poor mutts end up getting a double dose of everything. Personally, couldn't really give a toss about the cost, it's the impact on my pets that matters to me.

Paul


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## patp

Why, Paul, if your dog is wormed and treated for ticks/fleas regularly would you want to treat before leaving the uk? It is not something that my vet has ever recommended and I cannot find that Defra are suggesting it either. As you say it is something that you would not want to do unless really necessary.


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## lookback

The way I understand it is that you still need to visit the vet to a)have the worm tablet administered and b) for him to sign the Pet Passport and then be given a bill to pay for the privilege. Currently even taking your pets own Frontline and Drontal to the french vet you are charged in the region of 25 - 30 euros.

The only gain from the proposed new scheme is time.


Ian


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## Rosbotham

patp said:


> Why, Paul, if your dog is wormed and treated for ticks/fleas regularly would you want to treat before leaving the uk? It is not something that my vet has ever recommended and I cannot find that Defra are suggesting it either. As you say it is something that you would not want to do unless really necessary.


My dogs are regularly wormed/ticked. There are two combinations of flea and worming treatment that can be used...sorry can't remember the details as my eyes glaze over, but I do know that one of the flea treatments is incompatible with the other wormer. Both combinations work, but one of the wormers is most effective on the risks in this area, the other is more effective for the risks encountered in Europe. As such my vet recommends we switch approach when we go overseas - so we end up worming/ticking at a timing such that it's effective as we go overseas. Given we're not away for the duration of a tick / worming treatment, inherently the return treatment is prior to when it would otherwise be due.

If we left that complexity to one side so we weren't treating just before we went, inherently having to worm/detick on the return journey means we'd be doing it at a point where not necessary (unless the return trip happens to co-incide with when a treatment was due, which is unlikely).

To put it another way, let's say the new rules do turn out to be 0-5 days on the worming. That implies if the worming treatment is 6+ days old it's no longer effective. But we don't deworm pets once a week do we?


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## patp

To put it another way, let's say the new rules do turn out to be 0-5 days on the worming. That implies if the worming treatment is 6+ days old it's no longer effective. But we don't deworm pets once a week do we?[/quote]

No we don't but it does not mean that our pets do not have worms. It is just that the worm life cycle takes a while to complete and at some stages it is not receptive to treatment. The 0-5 day ruling is a nod to European custom so that we can move in line with their pet movement regulations.
The worm that everyone wants to prevent entering the uk is -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis

As you will see it is fatal in humans, and dogs, if left untreated. It can be carried by foxes and we all know how many of those there are around.

If you read the Defra statement they have moved to a "risk assessment" basis for dealing with pet passports. They now deem that it is still possible for rabies and Echinococcus multilocularis to enter the country but the risk is so small that they can relax the rules to the ones mentioned.


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## Rosbotham

patp said:


> The worm that everyone wants to prevent entering the uk is -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis
> 
> As you will see it is fatal in humans, and dogs, if left untreated. It can be carried by foxes and we all know how many of those there are around.


Yup, that's the one that's handled better by one of the top 2 worming brands than the other. But it's the other way around for the predominant worm around here, hence switching medication just before they go overseas. At least that's as far as I recall from last conversation with my vet.

So from what your saying in terms of lifecycle, a worming tab doesn't actually provide any forward immunity, but rather kills off anything that's already there? Otherwise, wouldn't the dose my dogs get a few days before they go overseas prevent any nasties being picked up?

Paul


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## patp

No Paul. that's just my point. There is no immunity involved in worming meds. They just kill all the worms that are present. The dog can, theoretically, be reinfected hours later. The risk factor is very low other wise they would not be allowing a five day gap between worming and re-entry to the uk.
Your vet is more worried about the tick meds I would think. That does have an ongoing effect and it cannot be used with certain wormers. 
I personally, do not use flea and tick treatment in this country unless I see any on my pets. Cats are the biggest culprits for bringing fleas into the household and if the cat is flea free then so mostly are the dogs.

My vet was recommending Advocate the last time I went but, although it sorts out fleas, ticks and roundworms, it does not deal with tapeworm. I am going to stick with Frontline (only when needed) and Drontal Plus. Both very good products but not flavour of the month with the vets now because they are available online and in the chemists etc. When we go abroad I will have to switch to the recommended treatment of Advantix before we go and use Drontal Plus regularly while we are there.

We also now have to worry about lungworm in this country but that is for another time!


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## Lurcherleans

patp said:


> Why, Paul, if your dog is wormed and treated for ticks/fleas regularly would you want to treat before leaving the uk? It is not something that my vet has ever recommended and I cannot find that Defra are suggesting it either. As you say it is something that you would not want to do unless really necessary.


All Defra are interested in are that diseases which can also infect humans are kept out of the UK not the health of your pets. I always treat the dogs with a tick treatment before going to France because piroplasmosis is rife and deadly and the idea is to keep the ticks off the dogs in the first place, a Scalibor collar is excellent for this and lasts about 5 months.

I'd personally check with the local vets in the place I am visiting to see what diseases I need to be aware of and what preventative treatment I can give my dogs particularly with regard to piroplasmosis and leishmaniasis.

I'm delighted that rules have been changed, so many people in France seem to have not had their dogs passported because they are never returning to the UK and then it does happen and they can't take the pets, or have to find someone to foster for 7 months, now with just a 21 day wait for entry into the UK from the date of the rabies vaccination many more pets will be able to return to the UK with their owners.


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## patp

Although we used a Scalibor collar at first but we discovered it contained organophosphates 8O and we found we became reluctant to stroke our dog because she was wearing it!
We now use Advantix and a tick hook for the ticks.
When you consider all the things they can get it now makes sense of my vet advising me not to take the dogs abroad


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## rugbyken

just going through the pet passport thing with molly the vet was very frusrated because molly had to have a second injection as her score on the first blood test was 295 vaccine manufacturer say's 250 is protected DEFRA say it has to be 500 having the second blood test next week which means !!! thats right we'll be able to bring her back in january still better safe than sorry .


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