# Hymer Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD not starting.....HELP!!!!!



## Baron1

Hi everyone,
This is a desperate request as there are not many working days before Christmas !! 

Our friends are having a problem with their B754 Hymer 2.8JTD (2000)
Basically it won't start !!
There was a problem when he hooked up his tow car the indicators didn't work, suspecting a faulty indicator relay he bought a new one, installed it and now the van won't start, he has put the old relay back in but still no joy. this morning an auto electrician spent an hour trying to find the fault but had no luck.
He is now desperate as he is supposed to be joining us in the Lakes for Christmas and New Year.
Does anyone have any ideas or alternatively know of a mobile auto electrician near Leighton Buzzard in Bedfordshire.

Thanks in anticipation,
Mel.


----------



## cater_racer

Someone mentioned a accident cut-out switch behind the battery in a post early this week??

www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-157945.html


----------



## Baron1

Yeah I saw that myself, my friend has already tried that but no luck.
Thanks for the quick response though.
Mel.


----------



## Mrplodd

Does the engine turn over or is everything dead?

My bet would be a fault on the immobiliser being the problem. Does it have an aftermarket alarm fitted as they can cause problems as well.

I don't however have a clue how to sort it. I suspect they will need to get a Fiat main agent involved ( as they will have the necessary software to interrogate the on board ECU) 

Does the ignition key have a battery in it? Might be worth replacing that in case it's failing to handshake with the vehicle.


----------



## Glenn_Kelly

Hi, 

We had a problem with ours in the summer when one of the fuses blew which activated the fiat immobiliser system. This was a standard fuse in the glove box - allowed the engine to turn over but not to start, something to try maybe?

Glenn


----------



## Glenn_Kelly

Hi, 

We had a problem with ours in the summer when one of the fuses blew which activated the fiat immobiliser system. This was a standard fuse in the glove box - allowed the engine to turn over but not to start, something to try maybe?

Glenn


----------



## Baron1

Thanks Mr Plodd,
The engine turns over fine but just won't fire.
The van has a Van Bitz alarm fitted.
I agree with you on the Fiat main agent, their problem is that the van is in an inaccessible position to get a breakdown truck to it so they need a mobile auto electrician!!
The ignition key has no battery in it (I made a mistake in my original description it's the old pre JTD - TDI 2.8 with the red key)

Many thanks for your suggestions, please keep them coming.

Mel.


----------



## Glenn_Kelly

Hi, 

We had a problem with ours in the summer when one of the fuses blew which activated the fiat immobiliser system. This was a standard fuse in the glove box - allowed the engine to turn over but not to start, something to try maybe?

Glenn


----------



## Baron1

Thanks Glenn he's going to check all the fuses in the morning. I'll let you know how he gets on.
Any other ideas welcome.

Mel.


----------



## takeaflight

If you look into the fuse box in the glovebox there is four seperate fuses that run along the main fuses one of them is the mobilizer. The van will turn over but not start, a good security device if you remove it.

I found this out in France when the van was taken on alow loader to dealer in Caen because it wouldn't start !!

I never plug a trailers electric socket in if the engines running or lights switched on, on the tow vehicle.

Bet of luck Roy


----------



## raynipper

My 2000 Fiat 2.8L pre electronic had the same problem when I plugged in a trailer and blew a fuse.
Can't remember which one but it's on the left inside the glove box. Several other things didn't work as well. Rear view camera, gages, etc.

Ray.


----------



## Baron1

Any more ideas on this?

Mel.


----------



## raynipper

It's a fuse.!!!!

Ray.


----------



## Baron1

Thanks Ray,
I'm hoping you're right, but I just want as many ideas as possible as we can't find a mobile auto electrician who can attend before Christmas, I will let you know how he gets on this morning.
( He has already checked all the fuses with a meter but he's hoping he may have missed one! ).
Mel.


----------



## Baron1

Every single fuse on the van has been checked with a meter this morning, all OK, he even took out the fuse boards to check the wiring on the rear and there is no sign of any loose wires.
Getting really desperate now any auto electricians out there???

Mel.


----------



## dalspa

If all of the fuses are OK, then looks to be the immobiliser (Fiat/Van B?). 

DavidL


----------



## tugboat

Presumably either the preheater plugs aren't doing their job or fuel is not getting through.

If you can access, see if the preheaters get hot when the light shows on the dash. If not, see if there is voltage. If voltage OK, must be duff heater.

The way to check the fuel (on boats anyway) is to loosen a fuel line on an injector. When turning over the engine there should be pulses of fuel leak out.

Looking at the handbook it says there is an emergency startup procedure for petrol versions but not for diesel, and to contact a Fiat dealer. 

If fuel is not getting to the injectors I suspect that it may be the engine management module/immobiliser that is at fault. Maybe your friend has inadvertently caused it to trip or whatever, in which case it may just be a case of plugging in a fault diagnosis reader (good mobile mechanics would have one) and resetting it.

I'm no expert btw, just my thoughts.


----------



## rayrecrok

Hi.

Don't mess about, does he have breakdown cover?, if he has the cover or AA, get the van taken to a garage to fix it, a mobile electrician can only do so much at the side of a road or camp site, a garage will have all the equipment to sort it.

If he is somewhere inaccessible they will tow him out to load it up some how, thats there job.
ray.


----------



## T_M

Try disconnecting the battery for a minute or two,this might reset the ECU unit.


----------



## icer

Baron,


If he looks at the instrument panel is there a code light showing?
If yes then it is probably immobilising the fuel pump which I believe is a big issue or at least costly.
If light on it will turn over but not start. I believe Jockandrita had an issue a while ago.
He could try using the red key as i believe it is the master key.
Tell him to look at fiat forum for further info or ask on there under ducato.

Ian


----------



## raynipper

As it's a 2000 van it's unlikely to have an orginal immobiliser or ECU. It's pre electronic.

No.1 fuse is a yellow 20 amp and will shut off the fuel valve... Check it again.
I have just gone out in a howling gale to take a picture of all the fuses but it's too large to attach.

Ray.


----------



## TheNomad

I think the guy is talking about a year 2000 2.8 JTD.

I don't think the red key and ECU management dashboard code stuff applies to this X230 generation of Ducato.






(Edited to add: sorry, my post crossed with Ray's)


----------



## icer

Nomad he updated info yestaerday it is a 2.8tdi

Mine has an immobiliser and no ecu

If the key symbol light on dash is on it, will not start.

Sometimes my light stays on and I have to switch off and on again.

I believe there is a fuel stop solenoid on the fuel pump

Ian


----------



## icer

see this link

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-45572-fiat-immobiliser-1996anyone-know-how-they-work.html

Ian


----------



## Baron1

Thanks Ray &Nomad,
The reason he can't get off of his drive is that some numpty has parked a Honda CRV dead opposite his drive and left it there for over a week!
There is no way he can get a breakdown truck anywhere near his van.

Ray thanks for the pic I've forwarded it on and he is out in the van checking it again.

Nomad, he definitely has a red key which he has tried and his van is a 2000 fiat 2.8 TDI

MEL.


----------



## kencocamper

*754 wont start*

had the same problem on my 754. turned out to be one of the fuses in the glove box but be sure to check every fuse as mine did not match up with the pictures on the lid, also take every fuse out and check for any corrosion causing a bad connection. ken


----------



## rosalan

I am grabbing at straws here but has he been in touch with the previous owner?
Some people fit their own anti-theft devices which could relate to any'extra' switches or hidden switches.

"Bright Sparks" in Sandy are good auto-electricians and I know there is one in the Bedford area who is such a whiz-kid, he gets called to other auto-electricians with problems (This was three years ago at least and I have no further details to offer).

Bedfordshire Auto Electrics Ltd 
44, 45 Camford Way, Luton LU3 3AN â€Ž
01582 597358 â€Ž · bedfordshireautoelectrics.co.uk
Car Concept 
Unit 1 The Point, Gatehouse Way, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire HP19 8DB â€Ž
01296 436311 â€Ž · carconcept.co.uk
Auto Electrical Centre 
Cryers Hill Rd, Cryers Hill, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire HP15 6LJ â€Ž
01494 718326 â€Ž
4 Star Auto Electrical 
Leverstock Green Road, Adeyfield, Hemel Hempstead, Herts HP2 4HJ â€Ž
07903 800927 â€Ž · 4starautoelectrical.co.uk

Alan


----------



## TheNomad

OK - I hadn't noticed that the model designation had been changed from 2.8 JTD to 2.8TDI.


I had thought the 2.8TDI engine was superceded by the 2.8 JTD engine in 1999. 


Perhaps it's one of the very last TDI's off the FIAT assembly line in 1999, that then took a while to get turned into a motorhome by the converter, and was thus first registered on the road in 2000?


So it'd be a 1999 Ducato model, but with a 2000 registration/V5.

I don't know, but it may just be worth the owner mentioning this to anyone he calls for technical assistance perhaps?



One other thing to check:- certainly on earlier diesel Ducatos the way that the engine was stopped when you turned off the ignition was that switching off stopped electricity getting to the little solenoid switch/valve on top of the diesel injection pump...and thus cutting the power to a little electro-magnet that held a little ball bearing up in the switch. The ball then dropped and blocked the fuel pipe.

I know of several cases where this solenoid valve failed:- the engine would turn over, the fuel pump would work, but no fuel comes out of the injectors. 
The solenoid valve costs just a few quid, and is dead simple for a mechanic to swop...but you do need to then crack open and bleed the injectors connections afterwards to purge the air that gets in when you unscrew the solenoid. 
Might well be worth a look....


----------



## icer

Here is a link to a mhf discussion that started with the Red key discussion and dates etc.

Morphed to discussion on work around should it be the immobiliser on the fuel pump and possible work arounds.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-67847-red.html+key

Ian


----------



## Jezport

I believe that this model has a one circuit immobiliser built into the fuel pump. 
This can be bypassed by someone with the knowhow


----------



## Jezport

I believe that this model has a one circuit immobiliser built into the fuel pump. 
This can be bypassed by someone with the knowhow


----------



## Baron1

Quick Update:
The fault was found by a mobile technician in January, it turned out to be a faulty fuel cut off valve that was stuck in the closed position.
Fiat wanted £120 for one but the technician got an identical one from a motor factors for £17 !!
All too late for our Christmas and New Year break but at least all is well now.
Many Thanks to all who posted on this thread for your help and ideas, just hope that if anyone else has this problem this thread will help.

PS the van is a year 2000 Hymer B754 2.8 TDI (not JTD as I originally posted).

Again, Many Thanks
Rgds Mel.


----------



## Geriatricbackpacker

Hi Mel, thanks for posting an update. It's always handy when it comes to researching a problem to get a definitive resolution. I find it frustrating when you spend ages reading through long threads only to be non the wiser once you've finished.

Terry


----------



## HarleyDave

Looks like Nomad called it 100% right

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Baron1

Yes, Nomad pointed us in the right direction and after that it was just a case of finding and checking the solenoid.


Just an addendum, the solenoid has been moved (by Fiat) from its original position which was easy to locate and access to a very inaccessible place under a lot of radiator pipework that had to be removed to gain access to the solenoid, this apparently was for security reasons as potential thieves could easily bypass the valve in the old position !!


----------



## Baron1

Just a very quick explanation of my tardy thank yous.

We actually left for our Christmas break before a lot of your posts were on this thread, as previously stated my friend and his wife could not join us as their van was still not fixed, when we returned after Christmas my wife was ill and I didn't get to look at MHF for a few weeks so sorry for the late reply.

Rgds Mel.


----------



## TheNomad

That'll be 50 squids, ta. Or 1 litre bottle of BAILEYS when you're down this way.

Seriously though, pleased you got it sorted, and also pleased you know now that you have the itd and not jtd 2.8, as it will help with possible future issues/spares identification.


----------



## TheNomad

That'll be 50 squids, ta. Or 1 litre bottle of BAILEYS when you're down this way.

Seriously though, pleased you got it sorted, and also pleased you know now that you have the itd and not jtd 2.8, as it will help with possible future issues/spares identification.


----------



## Baron1

Thanks again Nomad,
The reason for the confusion re TDI or JTD was that it isn't my van but a friends who I was trying to help out.
Still all's well......
Rgds Mel.


----------

