# Towing a car on an a frame



## clipper (May 22, 2005)

Hi All
dose anyone know the max weight that I could tow behind a Hymer 614 b class 3,900kg alko chassie 2.8 common rail 2004 using an a frame


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## Road_Runner_644 (May 9, 2005)

Hi clipper

More than mine i expect, 2000kg up to 10% gradient it says in the Hymer manual.

It should say in the manual towards the end of the handbook. If you haven't got one just drop an email to Hymer on their web site and they usually send a free one.

Dave


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*Towing*

It's also worth checking the maximum weight permissable with the towbar. I have Lunar Champ A630 2.8jtd on Alco chassis. Not sure what the maximum weight permissable is, but the maximum permissable stated by the tow bar manufacturer (Towtal) is 1100 kg.
If you are towing a car on A frame if it is more than 750kg it needs to be braked.
AND THAT statement will open another can of worms "Unladen or Laden"
See other posts (some by me) on this very subject, do a search.
If you need more info get back to me.
Dennis


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

Another consideration with towing and weights, is not just the gross amount you can tow, but that of axle weight too? 

For example, I tow a small car on an "A Frame". When I hook this car up to my MH, the downward force on the rear axle is nothing at all. As the car has wheels on all four corners, which support its own weight? 

Now then, My MH for example has a long rear overhang? By adding weight right at the back (on the towball), the weight is amplified immensely by the distance from the back axle? 

Therefore, if I were to load the very same car I use via an "A Frame" onto a small trailer, I would have a problem? 

This is because the trailer/car combo will have a lot of weight forward of its own axle(s). Whats often referred to as "nose" weight. 

In my case, this nose weight will create a downward force on my towbar, which because of the real large overhang, will almost definitely overload my rear axle. 

Indeed, the whole combination may well still be within my permitted "train weight"? However, on a weighbridge I would be in trouble up to my ears for rear axle overload 8O


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

I think you will find its the GVW that determins wether you need brakes, not the unladen. However from what other people have said about this issue and others, the police have got better things to do than stop you and check things out.

Its the insurance companies who will look for any reason to not payout.

Olley


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*Towing*



> think you will find its the GVW that determins wether you need brakes, not the unladen


Can of worms now open :wink:


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

olley said:


> Its the insurance companies who will look for any reason to not payout.


Oooo Er... Olley, don't start this one off again ;-)


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

> Oooo Er... Olley, don't start this one off again ;-)


Hoo me? never! just trying to be helpful :twisted:

olley


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## 89122 (May 14, 2005)

Hi,


> Quote: ‹ Select ›
> think you will find its the GVW that determins wether you need brakes, not the unladen


If the trailer is over 750 kg it must be braked.

A car on an A Frame is classed as a Trailer

Eddie


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Quote [Light trailers are defined in the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 (1986 C & U Regs.) as trailers having a maximum authorised mass (MAM) which does not exceed 3500kg. Trailers up to 750kg MAM are not required to have brakes. Trailers above 750kg MAM and up to 3500kg MAM are required to have brakes. An overrun system is commonly used but this is not a specific requirement] unquote

i am partial to worms

Olley


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

Hi all, if you tow a car on an 'A' frame , even a braked one, the brakes won't work properly because without your cars engine running no vacuum is produced to work the brake servo. If you go to the link below yo will see you can fit a vacuum pump, I have, you won't believe the difference.

http://www.victorylibrary.com/mopar/pump-tech-c.h tm


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## Enodreven (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi, 

Towing with an "A" frame ?? can someone help and answer the question that i keep posing IS IT LEGAL TO TOW a Aixam with an "A" frame or is TOWING with an "A" frame Illegal what ever the kerb weight of the car is ??. 

And what sort of "A" frames do others use ?? 

The ones with Chains that rap around the Wishbones ??

or

The semi built in ones that have an attachment already fitted to the tow-car that the "A" frame just attaches to ??


Thanks Brian


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Nobodys mentioned the plate that is fixed on all your notorhomes somewhere, usually on the inside of one of the doors or door pillars. This gives the gross weights of the vehicle and the gross train weight allowed when towing with that vehicle. My Bessacar 745 has a gross train weight of I think ( without checking ) 5500 kg. ( 5.5 ton) Before I had an A frame fitted My Vauxhall Agila on a four wheeled trailer weighed approx 1500kg of this which left me just inside the limit allowed for our vehicle. Now we are only towing the car we have plenty to spare and can load a little more of our necessary odds and sods in the car instead of overloading the MH.

Somebody mentioned in one of the posts that the Police have plenty to do without checking out motorhomes for being overweight etc. All I can say to that is dont come anywhere near the main A31 / A338 Junction just outside Ringwood on your way to our south coast if you are remotely overloaded. I travel by the weighbridge on that junction on a daily basis throughout the year and have seen all the vehicles being pulled in for checking. Its not only commercials they target. They have purges, one day its coaches another day it will be caravans. They dont give a toss. First thing you know is a motorcycle outrider is flagging you to follow him in. These weighbridges are near all the main roads around the country especially near Ports.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Brian. Definatly dont buy one that uses chains wrapped around anything. Check out Car A tow of Poole in Dorset or Towtall for proper braked A frames. I have a Car A tow as do all my friends but I gather that the other make is equally as good and around the same price. Car A tow have about a months waiting list for fitting usually. They also sell and fit Solar panels. I had these fitted also a while ago and can thoroughly recommend them


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Enodreven said:


> Hi,
> Towing with an "A" frame ?? can someone help and answer the question that i keep posing IS IT LEGAL TO TOW a Aixam with an "A" frame or is TOWING with an "A" frame Illegal what ever the kerb weight of the car is ??.


Thats 100,000 dollar question, A strict interpretation of the law I would say NO.

The aixam has a GVW under 750kg's and is classed as a quadricycle, but as someone pointed out, if a trailer has brakes they must work, so all "A" frames must be braked.

We hopefully will be changing our car this year, and then its an "A" frame for us.

Olley


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

One thing that's always bothered me outside of all the legal issues mentioned above (and on other similar topics on this forum) is what do you do about the number plate of the towed vehicle. :?

If its treated a 'trailer' it should have the same plate as the van but surely you can't register two vehicles with the same number - or am I showing my ignorance?

..............Again 

Regards Frank


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*A frames*

The car is treated as a trailer so a number plate with the same reg as the towing vehicle is fitted over the towed cars plate(and removed when not being towed). If the towed cars lights and indicators are connected to the towing vehicle then a trailer board is not required. If the lights are not worked from the MH lights, then a trailer/lighting board is required.


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

If you're not using a trailerboard you will need reflective triangles.


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## DJP (May 9, 2005)

*Towing*



> If you're not using a trailerboard you will need reflective triangles.


The reflectors on the "trailer" i.e. the car are the only reflectors you need.
I do not think there is a regulation that states the reflectors have to be triangular shape.
BTW the reflectors on the back of my Lunar MH are in fact built into the lighting unit and are triangular in shape the same size as trailer board/trailer triangles.
The MH is certainly not a trailer and meets MOT standards.


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

I am not positive, look up regs., but I believe the triangles are there to inform a following the vehicle that it is a trailer ahead..
Incidently back in the 80s in Spain you were required to have a blue triangle on the front of your towing vehicle, not sure if this still applies.


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

You need triangles on the back of the trailer. I stuck mine on the inside of the cars back window. A useful addition whilst towing a car on an A frame is a rear view camera. Apart from reminding you its there you can watch the car for any unusual movements such as would be caused if the car suddenly had a blow out. After towing our car on a trailer for some considerable time you always knew by the extra weight that you were towing something and hence didnt cut corners etc. I found it very strange the first trip out with the A frame because the towing weight wasnt nearly so noticeable. Once or twice going round rounabouts I had to suddenly correct myself from steering too close to the roundabout kerbs.


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## guzzijim (May 1, 2005)

We had our magnetic triangles made up at one of those magnetic sign companys. We also had several magnectic ON TOWs made up, which besides one being place on the rear of the vehicle we also place one on each side, it may be over the top, but better safe than sorry!. Nearly forgot and a magnetic TOWING for the front of the motorhome. 
The number plate clips over the existing with special clips.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

I too display two reflective triangles. I purchased a piece of aluminium strip from 
B&Q and bent it to shape so that when bolted to my clip on number plate it fitted 
the car contours. I attached the triangles on the ends of the aluminium strip. 
I also use the number plate when I am using a cycle carrier because it covers my rear motorhome plate. 

peedee


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