# 2.8 jtd performance



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

Hi. New to motorhoming, but not to driving big stuff.
Got a 1yr old Fiat 2.8 jtd Bessacarr with 3100 on the clock from a reputable dealer.
Your colleagues in the Newcomers forum gave me some good advice, but you technical bods may be able to allay any fears that I might have bought a lemon.
It runs well in suburbia, and will accelerate strongly.
When it goes down-wind on fast roads it will pull 75 to 80, but into the wind it drops to 60 or less.
Uphill can also be a bit of a struggle.
Changing down to 4th helps a bit, but this is not what I sourced a 2.8 for.
Its going to a Fiat dealer for a check up (at my expense), but I shall return it to the seller for any work that is required.
Am I expecting too much from a coachbuilt? 
Most reports suggest that these vehicles just go regardless of conditions.
I'm happy to cruise at 55 to 60 in normal practice, but need to know it will do a bit better when asked.
Anyone else had similar issues?


----------



## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

Hi Pianoman, Is the Turbo working properly? When you go up hill or it's pulling hard can you hear the whine of the Turbo? If not that's an area to get checked. I only have a 1.9TD Fiat Ducato and the performance you describe is similar to what I get. With a much bigger engine I would have thought you'd get much better performance.

Phil.


----------



## 91578 (May 1, 2005)

Diesel engines need to have run for 17000-18000 miles before they give their best performance I have been told


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

*2.8*

Hi Phil,
Thanks for response. I can hear the turbo, and can also feel it coming in when giving it some wellie.
If it's to do with the size and aerodynamics, it's something I'll live with; but if it's a fault I should expect it to be sorted for the money I've paid for this vehicle.
I've been unnerved by reports of infifferent quality control at Sevel, and I might just have a poor engine.
Perhaps I need to talk to the dealer, or the first owner to see why he sold it so soon.


----------



## 93795 (May 1, 2005)

I agree that Diesels need a fair bit of running in before they perform at their best, but it does seem as if you have a problem, if you can contact the original owner he might be able to help. I think that there are quite a few members on this site who have the 2.8 engine, so I expect some of them will post advice or details of their own vehicle's performance fairly soon.
Phil.


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

*Thanks for help*

Thanks for interest and help.
I'll post what Fiat say to me once it's been tested.
Regards,
Paul.


----------



## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

Hi Pianoman,
We have a 2.8 JTD like you, it had done just over 4000 miles when we got it, and we had similar performance to you. Ours is a low profile Rapido so we have less wind resistance than you. We are up to nearly 8000 miles now, and can notice the engine is starting to loosen up, and it is revving more freely over 3000 RPM. There is also an improvement in the general drivability with less downshifts to maintain cruising speeds. I would guess that your motor is OK, I am sure you will see an improvement with more miles on it. Remember it is only 127 BHP at best hauling 3.5 tonnes, with the engine still tight you may only be getting 110 BHP. That's about the same as my 1 ton Astra with about 1/5 the frontal area!!
Get a chip if you want better performance, but wait until you have some more miles on the clock and you may find you are happy with what you have got.
Colin


----------



## rodders (May 1, 2005)

My detective powers have been taxed somewhat having trawled through copious quantities of blurb from mags, brochures and internet.
I have read of some people being highly delighted and others somewhat disappointed. I am looking at 4.5t tag axel jobbies anyone any comments on 2.8 in these motorhomes. 

Can anyone comment on the short top gear available, does this provide better option? 

Tester covering Niesman Bischoff said it was was lively with short gear and felt 18/20mpg acceptable to good at low miles. :!: :!:

Pianoman suggest you take it to dealer complaining you think something is wrong if it's under warranty they are unlikely to make a charge if they are local dealer and you are offering to return for regular servicing. If they don't try elsewhere.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I've got a tag axle 2.8 and would suggest that the performance you mention is acceptable. Dependant on how you are driving it you should see up to an average of 23 mpg.

Not sure of your reference to a short gear? a common complaint is that 5th is rather high.

John.


----------



## rodders (May 1, 2005)

Hi eurajohn .

short 5th gear definetley available as factory order option on 2.8 Fiat.


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

*2.8 performance*

Thanks everybody for your replies and suggestions. 
I can see we're going to be members of a great group here.
I'm sure I'll get it sorted. 
Hope to see some of you around Europe next year.

Paul & Kath Foulkes.


----------



## Hymie (May 9, 2005)

*Short 5th Gear*

We have the "short" 5th gear on our new B614 - it cruises great on the 
motorway - very few downshifts.
Our last 2.8JTD was an auto and wouldnt go into top below 60 mph.
The new one is more relaxing to drive.


----------



## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*power output 2.8 jtd*

Hi I have a Bessacar 765 with 7,000 miles which I have had from new, I would not expect to get full power until there is at least 10 - 12000 on the clock, Mine will cruise at 75 - 80 mph if no headwind the harder you drive it the better it will respond although Motorhoming is supposed to be a relaxing way of life. I had a small problem that did slow it down at first. the hand brake linkage just before it goes into the rear drum was seized and created drag on the nearside brake. I had the vans first service carried out by Allan Kerr at Paington and they spotted it they said that this has come up before possibly by the Chassis standing around before conversion? might be worth a look.


----------



## 89146 (May 15, 2005)

I have a Hymer C524 on a 2.8 Ducato base, cruises up the motorways at 70 very happily, have had it up to 80, and given a good run at it have powered past tuggers and lorries up long hills. Fully satisfied with the "town" performance.
However, as part of its recent ungrading it has been "tweaked" and I am told that the performance has now improved. 8O 
If you send a Private Message to brezcraft who did the work (he's on these forums quite a lot) I am sure he will explain what was done, might help in your case too.
I haven't driven the new version yet!

Gill


----------



## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Hi everybody.
with reference to low power the 2.8 turbo engines produce max torque at 1800rpm and max pulling power [bhp]at 3600rpm so about 2000-2500rpm is the best cruising speed ,reving the engine beyond 3600rpm is a waist of fuel and money . 
we have a 3.5ton 705 bessacarr with the old 2.8 direct injection td engine fitted 2001 model, it has done only 9000mls we had it tweeked by van haakn in berkshire the power went up from 127bhp to 175 bhp rolling road report.
we can drive all day in 5th at 45mph up hill and down dale with no problem and still get 28mph our friends tag axel hobby with the 2.8jtd has also been chipped 4.5ton and there`s is even faster .we can both pull90-100mph easily [don`t tell pc plod] :twisted: . and yes diesels do improve with age a lorry is not at its best till 100,000mls ,diesel engines are ment to be worked so don`t be affraid of using your right foot.
also use fully/semi synthetic oil as it is less load on the engine and makes the engine much quieter.
dont tell the insurance company as it can invalidate the policy as you have uprated the engine without telling them and it also invalidates the warrenty, but on a lighter note the uprating must be good as fiat now sell an upgrade for the 2.8 to 175bhp but only on the continental models

beware flying motorhomes 
Tramp-any more questions please pm me.


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

I appreciate all the comments that have come up from this.
The van seems to be getting a bit better, and I have to consider that it did only 3000 miles in 1 year so it hardly got thrashed.
Round town and suburbs it acclererates well and in 4the gear holds its own on hills.
Motorways can be a bind when running into the wind.
I plan to check the fuel filter, and then I may see what a trip to France does.
Please don't think I'm judging anyone else, but the idea of chipping etc. to gain performance isn't the way I choose to go.
Motorhomes are big vehicles, and as owners we should be setting a good example and keeping to speeds that are safe for that size of vehicle.
60 to 70 on motorways is fast enough for me (with a bit in reserve), but it's the headwinds and gradients that bring me down to speeds that put me with the LGV's. this is not good because you cannot always forecast what speed you will be doing in the next 1/2 mile and may need to stick to the lefthand lane.
It's not so much the top end speed, as the consistency.
If it would keep up 70 or so I should be happy.
Thank you all who have given their views and advice, please contribute if you have any comments. it is very much appreciated, and I'll post any changes (good or bad) to the performance.
Paul.


----------



## 89013 (May 11, 2005)

*2.8jtd performance*

The performance of your MH seems to be exactly the same as ours. We have an imported LHD Autoroller 7 (7 berth coachbuilt) on a Ducato 2.8 JTD, with 9800 miles on the clock.

It will do an indicated 70mph, perhaps 75mph, on the flat, with no wind. Any perceptible uphill sees this reducing below 60mph, to the point we need to change down to 4th - 5th gear seems too high for a fully laden 3.5 tonne coachbuilt. It will then accelerate back to 65mph, but the engine sounds as though it's revving it's guts out. I fully understand your point about consistency - our style of motohoming is to get from flat East Anglia to mountains in Scotland, Wales or the Alps as quickly as possible, and then pootle around - so maintaining a good average (legal, of course) speed is important to us.

I too am concerned we have a lemon of an engine. But I am equally reluctant to chip it given all the reports of gearbox problems. I am hoping things will improve with mileage, but I cannot see that it can make a huge difference from what we have now.

Nick


----------



## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

A lot of interesting things have come up from this thread. I guess my van must have stood quite a bit in its first year, and the interior is as new, so it hasn't been used for any long journeys or holidays.
Aside from checking the fuel pump for dirt and water I don't intend to do much until it's been on a few trips and done another 1000 or so miles.
If I hear of anything else I can do I'll let you know, especially Nick.
I hope your van gets sorted Nick, you will probably feel a bit cheated like me. Have a look at the Base Vehicle forum - the thread about fuel filters, as that has some information about power/performance.
I doubt either of us has bought a 'lemon' and expect that regular use and a few good runs will loosen things up a bit.
When I collected my van it was supposed to have had it's first service by a Fiat main dealer, but I don't believe they did a fat lot to it. The turbo hose coming adrift, the spongy brakes and the rapidly dropping to bits windscreen wipers testify to that.
I understand that we are entitled to take vehicles to any competent garage for service now without invalidating the warranty.
In any case I'm inclined to take the risk, and I shall be using an independant I trust in Sheffield.
Keep us informed how your van goes Nick, and thanks to everyone who has offered help and advice.

Paul.


----------

