# Do You Have An Rcd?



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

At Habitation Service the engineer expressed surprise that he could find no RCD in the vehicle. (French made, Imported by Dealer 2008)

The Search facility on here brought up some interesting info on threads going back to 2007/8

I'd be interested in any updated info from owners of non-British vehicles as to whether there is an RCD fitted (especially French-manufactured)

Furthermore, do I really need one? After four years, over 28k miles, and hooked up to a variety of French, German, Belgian, Dutch sites I've only ever experienced the occasional overload "trip" which has been "dealt with" by the MCB.

Thanks in anticipation (and nothing too technical please :lol: )


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Telbell said:


> At Habitation Service the engineer expressed surprise that he could find no RCD in the vehicle. (French made, Imported by Dealer 2008)
> 
> The Search facility on here brought up some interesting info on threads going back to 2007/8
> 
> ...


In both of my French manufactured MH's there has been no RCD. They fit a single combined RCD/MCB which is known as a RCBO. They do not have a RCD and multi MCB's as per UK MH's but the single RCBO. 
Are you sure that your engineer is familiar with 'foreign' installations and is mistaking the RCBO for just an MCB and therefore no RCD?
Can you post a picture of your AC power distribution box? If not the markings on your 'MCB'?

In both of my French MH's a CBE system was fitted. A link is shown below and the diagram on page 31 shows a schematic with the AC power box which they refer to as " 230V CUT-OUT board - it powers and protects all the 230V users"
http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/pc200-kitpackage-p-4423.html


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thank you ray. Vehicle is still in for Service so can't provide any info at moment but will pass that on.

Our vehicle is from the Rapido "family" so will be surprised if there's much difference in set up


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

Only today I was looking at in-line RCDs with a view to adding one to my EHU cable.
Splashproof only so I will join it 3 or 4 feet from the van end, and will tuck it under the van in a coil of cable to keep it dry.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/line-RCD-...UK_BOI_CircuitBreakers_RL&hash=item3a739df38d


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

My 2008 German made Frankia only had MCBs 

there were no RCD or RCBO's 

meaning you have to rely on the site bollard for protection

so I fitted my own RCD


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Own Rcd*



trek said:


> My 2008 German made Frankia only had MCBs
> 
> there were no RCD or RCBO's
> 
> ...


Same Here


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## MiketheWelshman (May 1, 2005)

All the sites that I have been on have earth leakage protection in the hook up post. This is to provide protection to the hook up cable. In other words, no point in having two rcd's because the one in the van doesn't provide protection for the entire "temporary installation" which is what a camping installation is. As an illustration, would you a rcd on the lawn mower end of a extension lead or the house end?.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I know what MiketheWelshman is saying but for my own piece of mind & safety I still fitted an RCD

firstly can you trust that there is a site RCD & is it of the correct trip rating ?

Sites often have the RCD & MCBs hidden away in boxes & often locked so how can you tell what if anything is fitted - possibly more of a problem on the continent 


secondly as an occasional generator user I wanted the protection of an on board RCD


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

MiketheWelshman said:


> All the sites that I have been on have earth leakage protection in the hook up post. This is to provide protection to the hook up cable.


Sorry that's wrong, RCD's protect you, MCB's protect the installation/hook up cable. The Ehu post will have an MCB but may not have an RCD.

Ian


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

my 2003 rapido has a 30mA-25amp rcbo and 10amp MCBs for individual circuits eg fridge, 230v sockets etc 
This is a bog standard un- modified schreiber unit 
Hope this helps


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thanks all for your replies. Appreciated.

Apparently when tested the Mcb does not trip or cut the power according to tests at the Service Centre- so obviously something's wrong somewhere. I've asked if the Unit could be "rcbo" as per Rapido- awaiting reply


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## MiketheWelshman (May 1, 2005)

Olley, the reason for putting the rcd upstream of the hook up cable is to protect against shock, a damaged hook up cable with only a mcb does not do this, a current small enough to make the surrounding Ground live and cause death is quite a lot lower than even the smallest rated mcb. Rcd's typically trip at 30ma, hook up mcbs 6--16amps. Trailing flexible cables on wet grass and subjected to mechanical damage ( cars, lawn mowers, animals chewing etc) is inherently dangerous, hence the requirement in Europe to use rcd's where we use 220v Ac. Lower voltages pose less of a risk, 110v equipment is compulsory on constructions sites for example.
A recent dramatic illustration of the dangers of leaking voltages was a race horse killed by electrocution on a racecourse, a faulty underground cable which had been damaged by spiking the turf was the cause.
As far as servicing a motorhome or caravan is concerned, I wonder how many have their hook up cables or extension leads completely unwound and checked for mechanical damage from end to end

I quote from Olleys post

Sorry that's wrong, RCD's protect you, MCB's protect the installation/hook up cable. The Ehu post will have an MCB but may not 
have an RCD. 

In practice, what tends to happen is the ehu has a higher rated earth leakage circuit breaker protecting all the sockets on that post, typically 100ma 100ms trip time, the individual units in a caravan/ motorhome/ tent etc are 30 ma/ 30 ms, this is to provide discrimation and prevent one faulty unit taking out the entire hook ups on that post. However different country's have different codes of practice, hence German vans not fitted with rcd's.


Ian


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Telbell said:


> Thanks all for your replies. Appreciated.
> 
> Apparently when tested the Mcb does not trip or cut the power according to tests at the Service Centre- so obviously something's wrong somewhere. I've asked if the Unit could be "rcbo" as per Rapido- awaiting reply


I guess it cannot be an RCBO as it would trip exactly the same as a RCD if a RCD Test Unit was used to simulate a fault condition. It would also have a user test button associated with it in the same way as an RCD.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Hi Telbell
have just looked in my locker for you.
there is a Siemens RCBO fitted 5SU1 353-1KK 16. C18 30mA.

with a test button.

plus of course the battery charger and fuse box.all the other gubbins we have had fitted.
Maybe the experts can tell us if this is what we need.

cabby


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

cabby said:


> Hi Telbell
> have just looked in my locker for you.
> there is a Siemens RCBO fitted 5SU1 353-1KK 16. C18 30mA.
> 
> ...


The one in my Rapido is of similar spec i.e 16A 30mA trip. It does everything a similarly rated 30mA RCD and 16A class C MCB will do.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thanks cabby-been in contact with service people who will check that out.
Does your system trip when you press the test button??

Thanks Ray not surprised then- Rapido/Fleurette v similar. - same question- does yours trip when tested? Ta

Ps-just found this
http://www.havmain.co.uk/blog/electrical-services-and-electricians/what-is-an-rcbo-electrician/

which starts to make a little more sense to me-however it seems the "test" button isn't doing anything

Watch this space(if interested :lol: )


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Telbell said:


> Thanks cabby-been in contact with service people who will check that out.
> Does your system trip when you press the test button??
> 
> Thanks Ray not surprised then- Rapido/Fleurette v similar. - same question- does yours trip when tested? Ta


It does if I use the test button. I have not tried it with a RCD Test Unit. The RCD Test Unit is normally plugged into a socket outlet and has an inbuilt test button which when pressed simulates a fault and the trip should operate.
You said in one of your posts that you had tripped it when on site abroad. This is where I was a bit confused as I suspect this would be due to a trip in the RCD side of the RCBO not that you had exceeded the curent rating of the MCB side of things. A 16A B or C rated MCB can take a considerable overload of current before tripping.
I guess time will tell, you either have a RCBO, which may be faulty, or just a single MCB. In any event a competent local electrician could fit a replacement RCBO or add a RCD for very little money.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> I guess time will tell, you either have a RCBO, which may be faulty, or just a single MCB. In any event a competent local electrician could fit a replacement RCBO or add a RCD for very little money.


Thanks. Cabby's vehicle is exactly the same make, model and spec as ours so the likelihood id that it's an RCBO which (presumably) isn't working properly. Being checked out as I write.

The trip I referred to earlier was the usual "overload" stuff where I just re-set the switch on what I thought was a mcb unit in the vehicle :?


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

I like the protection of having everything on the van protected by my own, on board RCD

I don't like having to rely on campsite bollard ones. We have had "campers" by pass our EHU bollards presumably as they have had a faulty device! So there is no guarantee that the post is OK

Also, how many of you fit a RCD on the output of the inverters that you all fit?

Tut Tut ! :wink: 

Eddie


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

eddievanbitz said:


> Also, how many of you fit a RCD on the output of the inverters that you all fit?
> 
> Tut Tut ! :wink:
> 
> Eddie


Me! Eddie :lol:

Mikethe welshman, I was simply pointing out that not all sites have an RCD, on two sites I have been to, the EHU was simply a 13amp socket on a wall.

Ian


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

not the best photo, but using my phone, which is rather old.


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## Happycampers (Mar 11, 2008)

Hola Philip, Thanks for the snap of your RCD layout,now terry and me have the same mounting box but in ours there are 2 MCB's not an RCD, which leads me to believe that yours my have been fitted as a retro by Southdowns when they had it, but they did'nt do ours before handover so it'll be down to us to install one if we want to.

Any way, enjoy Spain both of you

Nigel


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## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

Our Rapido 2008 had no RCD and Stowmarket Caravans refused to complete the electrical check on the habitation service. They wanted £125 to fit one! My brother-in-law electrican fitted one for £20 in the CBE box in the spare slot next to the MCB's.
Colin


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

camoyboy said:


> Our Rapido 2008 had no RCD and Stowmarket Caravans refused to complete the electrical check on the habitation service. They wanted £125 to fit one! My brother-in-law electrican fitted one for £20 in the CBE box in the spare slot next to the MCB's.
> Colin


You mentioned this to me some time ago Colin. I've been reading this thread and this morning ordered an rcd but it cost over £40; however it was for a double pole one. double pole rcd

I also found a double pole rcbo, as Ray posted, for about the same price. double pole rcbo

I've gone for double pole as the van has DP MCB's and I think it will help with any reversed polarity hookups (which I don't otherwise worry about).

Kev


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Well I thought I'd cracked it until the last couple of Posts with Dual Poles and stuff :lol: :lol: 

If I remember correctly I was quoted around £40 for rcd but have been out all day so haven't spoken to motorhome depot

So, folks- assuming Nigel is correct (and would I disagree perish the thought :wink: ) do I need a rcd, a rcbo....or nowt? :roll:


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## Happycampers (Mar 11, 2008)

Terry, for peace of mind, and if the price is right go for the RCD option, the figure of £40 is not to bad so go for it as its asmall price to pay for stopping you getting your's or Jo's fingers burn't :wink: :wink: 

Nigel


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

here are better photo's.the charger is top right, the rcbm is below on the left and fuses on the right.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> now terry and me have the same mounting box but in ours there are 2 MCB's not an RCD,


THanks Nigel- you going down th rcd route??


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## Happycampers (Mar 11, 2008)

Yea, now iv'e got all the time in the world on my hands i'll be fitting one on my set up, as you say it's been ok for 4 years but best to air on the side of caution where as i don't take much to kill ya. 8O 
Nigel


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## Happycampers (Mar 11, 2008)

Yea, now iv'e got all the time in the world on my hands i'll be fitting one on my set up, as you say it's been ok for 4 years but best to air on the side of caution where as i don't take much to kill ya. 8O 
Nigel

you can see the 2 MCB's on mine where Cabby has his RCD fitted


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