# o MOT and number plates did you know ?



## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

Just thought I would share this with you as It has taken me by suprise. Today I took my motorhome in for its first MOT and it failed on the registration number plates which were supplied and fitted by the dealers when purchased.
IT failed because all number plates on vehicles registerd on or after 1st Jan 2001 have to display the postcode of the manufacturer of the number plates.After leaving the mot station i checked the VOSA web sight and this is correct i also set about looking at other cars and about 80% of them do not have a postcode on them .Your comments please


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Not much point in commenting Phil, apart from showing sympathy. :roll: 

You haven't got a leg to stand on, unfortunately, as it will be deemed your responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is fully legal. The fact that half the rest of the world should also have failed makes no difference at all.  

It's just one more fairly pathetic regulation, which should not come under the MOT (IMHO) and you were unfortunate to get a picky examiner.

I'm just off to look at mine  :roll: - and I bet a lot of other members will be doing the same, so thanks for that.   

Dave


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Yes- thought it was generally known?
Supposed to help overcome thefts of vehicles, putting false plates on etc, and easier to trace origins.



> hich should not come under the MOT (IMHO) and you were unfortunate to get a picky examiner.


Good way to try & enforce it really? Sves Mr Plod getting bad name :wink:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

P.S. This may sound daft, but go and double check your plates. 8O 

The ones on my truck are OK, but I thought the plates on the car had no postcode.

They have in fact, when I looked really closely, but the text is really tiny and faint, in a pale colour, and tucked away in one corner. 8O 

Hope you find it lurking there!  

Dave


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## paulkenny9 (Jun 25, 2008)

my dad has a private plate which he has irregular spacings, proper plate makers arent allowed to do this and having thier post code on the bottom of the plate is the way the authorities know who manufactured the plate, thus detering them from doing anything other than a fully legal plate

Paul


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> It's just one more fairly pathetic regulation


Pathetic is quite strong, and doesn't really warrant such a superlative. It's one of the many minor regulations which govern the use of a vehicle on a road, and the rationale behind it is good in principle. I do agree though that in terms of law enforcement and effectiveness, it's about as good as t*ts on a tom cat. :roll:

Bona-fide suppliers of real number plates will always comply, as they do lose their ability to supply if they don't. It's quite easy though to buy a "number plate" (aka "sign") off t'internet which is sold for off-road use. The final onus as always is on the user of the vehicle to comply with all Construction & Use and Vehicle Excise regs.

Dougie.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

asprn said:


> Pathetic is quite strong, and doesn't really warrant such a superlative.


Well I'm not too sure about that. :?

In a country where a car can pass an MOT (which is primarily a test to determine the safety of the vehicle) with a defective speedometer (or even no speedometer at all) yet get failed for not having the post code of the number plate maker marked one has to wonder at the mental capacity of those who make the laws.


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Here here Gaspode.
Is it ok to put the post code on if you know it? :?:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

_it's about as good as t*ts on a tom cat. _

You have got two asprin!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Sorry asprn, but I'm with Gaspode on this one.

It's so simple to buy a "sign" at any kit car show, and substitute with legitimate plates for the MOT in 5 minutes.

I well understand the reason for the rule, but when a it's is so easily flouted it's just plain daft.

An example of rule makers with good intentions and little common sense ?
.
.
.
.
.
Ducks the flak and runs orf...... 8O


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## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

The garage had no right to fail you for not having the dealers post code on the plates. This was introduced as part of the MOT test in October 2007 and then suspended in November 2007 by the DVLA because, as you rightly say, too many cars do not have it.

All MOT testing stations were issued with a Special Notice advising them of this - however many of them are still failing cars playing on innocent punters in order to sell them a set of plates advertising THEIR business!

Please see this update from DVLA:

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/Special Notice 10-07.pdf

And also this from the association of MOT testers:

http://www.rmif.co.uk/article.aspx?id=3859

I suggest you print off both of these and present them to the garage!


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

*"one has to wonder at the mental capacity of those who make the laws." *

I wonder at the mental capacity at some (not all) who are paid to uphold the law :wink:

*"All MOT testing stations were issued with a Special Notice advising them of this - however many of them are still failing cars playing on innocent punters in order to sell them a set of plates advertising THEIR business!"*

As I thought yet another scam buy some,when oh when is the automotive industry going to be regulated correctly.


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

I bow to the retired plod on this subject but isn't obtaining or attempting to obtain property by deception an arrestable offence? It strikes me that if it is only a way of getting a retest fee using a deception then Constable Napweed will have to look into it at a later date, or am I still in Heartbeat era with todays Police.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm not "retired plod", but my brother is, and we were putting the world right only yesterday over a pint.

I think the problem here (in a nutshell) is that Constable Napweed is fully aware of what is going on and would like to do something about it.  Not just here of course, but in many other minor, but significant problem areas.

Unfortunately he has to do exactly as he is told, and the instructions filter down from very senior officers who are either quite out of touch . . . or themselves having to do as *they *are told. 8O

Priorities vary greatly, depending on which level of enforcement one is operating - and poor old Napweed is between a bloody great rock and a hard place!!!

Dave


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## frenchfancy (May 21, 2005)

We have a Sundance and the postcode on the number plates is from the dealer, where i bought it not the manufacturer. Will this be ok do you know


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

The postcode should relate to the supplier of 'The Number Plate'.


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## 38Rover (Nov 9, 2006)

Just another example of over regulated UK it's all very jobsworth?
Why not get a fine brush and white paint and put a post code on the plate to shut up the NERDS


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

> Priorities vary greatly, depending on which level of enforcement one is operating - and poor old Napweed is between a bloody great rock and a hard place!!!
> We have seen this in Police, Teaching and Nursing. You set organisations targets and they lose interest in all but those targets such a shame for the workers at the sharp end


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## mickyc (Jan 20, 2006)

frenchfancy said:


> We have a Sundance and the postcode on the number plates is from the dealer, where i bought it not the manufacturer. Will this be ok do you know


Read addies post 



EJB said:


> The postcode should relate to the supplier of 'The Number Plate'.


Read addies post 

*****YOU DON'T NEED APOSTCODE ON YOUR NUMBER PLATE TO PASS THE MOT!!!*****


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks Addie i have printed off the links and will be back at the mot testing centre tomorrow.Having said I did challange them at the time whislt armed with the VOSA web site on my Blackberry which supports what you say, there answer was that it was suspended in 2007 but re introduced a couple of months ago although they could not offer any evidence of this The VOSA web page on this subject has no updates since 2007.I am going to ring them Monday morning before going to the mot centre


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## tuftey (Nov 21, 2008)

what a load of rubbish another way to get you back for a retest and a cheap retest and easy 1 at that tell the tester you will report him and see what he says to that and take it somewhere else and do so and if it passes throw your mot at him and say i want my money back and report to dvla so he will lose his licence to trade and see how he like that 

he could of give you advisory on it for next year


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

I will update you all as soon as VOSA has confirmed with me the latest regulatgions .It does seem possible that the requirment which did exist until it was suspended in Oct 2007 has been re intruduced.If the MOT testing station has been trying to screw me and god knows how many others I will name and shame big time


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## tuftey (Nov 21, 2008)

to right you should 

sounds like he wears a stripy shirt and carrys a bag over his shoulder wearing a mask to me 

A ROBBER


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

phil4francoise said:


> they could not offer any evidence of this


Hi Phil

They should be able to produce evidence in the form of the MOT testers "bible". The tester will have a manual which should be updated at every change of regulation. They may be somewhat reluctant to show it to you, especially if they haven't been keeping it up to date or if it proves you correct. If you have a problem, PM me and I'll consult one of the local MOT testers and take a look at his "bible" for you. Disputes about technical failures happen frequently between MOT stations, usually because one of them hasn't updated their manuals (or hasn't read it recently).


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks for that.We will see what tomorrow brings,below is what I have sent to VOSA.

Please can you confirm with me the latest requirments for registration plates.My vehicle was issued with a VT 30 No 52300319016 for having no post code on the number plates ( 6.3 .1a ) As far a I am aware the MOT special notice issue number 10-2007 suspended the above .The test centre 92213 when challenged about this stated that ( 6.3.1a) has been re introduced.Please could you advise me A.S.A.P

Thankyou

Mr P.Marshall


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Can't believe this is being discussed again. My son had to fail my wife's car last year because we had used old plates from her previous car and the VOSA inspector was auditing at the time. I had forgotten to check although I was aware of the regulations as it is clearly shown on the documentation when you buy personal registration.
In any case, get a life and comply with the regulations. Use the correct font with the correct spacings. 
As I said on the previous thread a couple of weeks ago, to those who think that it is clever to contravene the number plate regulations, how would you feel if a loved one was knocked over by a driver who failed to stop and had number plates that could not be read or were incorrect in other ways and the driver could not be traced?


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## mickyc (Jan 20, 2006)

GerryD said:


> Can't believe this is being discussed again. My son had to fail my wife's car last year because we had used old plates from her previous car and the VOSA inspector was auditing at the time. I had forgotten to check although I was aware of the regulations as it is clearly shown on the documentation when you buy personal registration.
> In any case, get a life and comply with the regulations. Use the correct font with the correct spacings.
> As I said on the previous thread a couple of weeks ago, to those who think that it is clever to contravene the number plate regulations, how would you feel if a loved one was knocked over by a driver who failed to stop and had number plates that could not be read or were incorrect in other ways and the driver could not be traced?


Er we're discussing a postcode on the bottom of the number plate NOT SPACINGS FONTS PERSONAL NUMBER PLATES OR ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING "GETTING A LIFE"

NUMPTY


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

GerryD said:


> My son had to fail my wife's car last year because we had used old plates from her previous car and the VOSA inspector was auditing at the time.


Does that mean that if the VOSA inspector hadn't been there your son would have passed your wifes car with illegal plates? Not a good thing to admit in public I think?


GerryD said:


> In any case, get a life and comply with the regulations. Use the correct font with the correct spacings.


Maybe the O/P has already got a life - he certainly hasn't said anything about personal number plates, incorrect fonts or illegal spacing. Maybe some members need to read the question correctly before they post aggressive responses?


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

So are number plates without suppliers postcode ok on a caravan or trailer.
No mot required for these.


If only people with common sense ran this country of ours.

Dave P


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

gaspode said:


> Does that mean that if the VOSA inspector hadn't been there your son would have passed your wifes car with illegal plates? Not a good thing to admit in public I think?


Yes, he would have done because he had forgotten that it was a requirement.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Hi all 
This subject always seems to create some interesting discussion. 
While I totally agree not having a postcode on your number plates is not at the top of my list of "really bad things people do" and is never going to cause a fatal road collision. it is the law and it falls within and same legislation as miss spaced and altered plates, which do cause the police problems with automatic number plate readers and as already mentioned may lead to you not being able to trace the car that knocks off your wing mirror and fails to stop. It is also the same piece of law that people often flaunt when putting football team badges, England flags etc on their number plate. 
Being a police officer I often deal with people for such number plates, and quickly learnt that rather than trying to prosecute for miss spaced letters which requires lots of measurements etc now we just use the offence of not having the correct british standard mark on your number plate. 
Still being allowed to use my own discretion (nearly) I deal with people in different ways. If they are local I make a note of where they live and tell them to get the plates sorted and a week or so later I will call round and check they have done so, if not then it's time for a £30 ticket. If they are not local then it's a vehicle defect notice giving 14 days to replace the plates and a requirement to get them checked at an MOT station and return the paperwork. If they are obviously ppersistentcocky offenders who carry a set of legal plates in the boot and swap them at the side of the road then it's a £30 ticket straight away as I know they will swap them back round the corner. 
What you need to realise is that although not having a post code on a perfectly normal looking plate is nowhere near as bad as one I recently saw on a boy racers saxo that I cocouldn'tven read the correct number due to the italic font when stood next to it and included the phrase "lower than sniffing your grannies f****" along the bottom. It still commits exactly the same offence. Just as stealing a Mars Bar is the same offence as stealing a £10 box of chocolates. 
Most people who buy plates from an unorthorised seller do so because they want an illegal plate or cannot be bothered to sort out the documents to go to the correct supplier. 
It is unfortunate for the person who buys a vehicle with illegal plates already on, but in the big scheme of motoring expexpensenew set of number plates is small fry. 
So if it is a fail for an MOT (I am not sure if it currently is) then how can you blame the tester when he won't give you a certificate. 
JP


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

First I must reply to Gerry D .I was going to treat your posting with the contempt it deserves but then thought what is the guy's problem.Here we are disscussing if the MOT requires the post code of the registration plate manufacture to be present,which it does not ,I will come back to that,and then a fellow motor home owner ploughs in with out a clue what we are discusssing and tells me "to get a life".My friend if you must insult people on a normally friendly forum at least read the thread first, that way you won't make yourself look so silly   
Anyway today I telephoned VOSA who confirmed with me that it is not a failure for the MOT . As most of us correctly said it was introduced for a short time in 2007 but due to the 10s of thousands of cars affected it was suspended in October 2007 and still is. Before I could return to the garage they rang me to admitt their error.VOSA wanted all the details of the testing station concerned to follow up my concerns.I now have my MOT and all is well.Thankyou to everyone who replied with advice.


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## suffolkian (Jul 25, 2007)

Phil

Thank you for your post and follow up. I'm glad you cleared up the vagueness over the legality of the postcode (or not) on current vehicle number plates. 

Ian and Steve


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

But please remember the MOT is a safety check and you still must have legal plates if your vehicle is on the road.
JP


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

hi Ian I am sending you a PM


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## suffolkian (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks Phil.

Reply sent


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

The plates should also comply with BS standards, you should be glad you have the best m-o-t standard in Europe.


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

I have not got a problem with mot's ,being legal etc ect, the whole issue was having a vehicle fail the mot for something that it could not be failed on and then being charged for a re test and new plates advertising the garage that was in breech of VOSA regulations


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

It's just one more fairly pathetic regulation, which should not come under the MOT (IMHO) and you were unfortunate to get a picky examiner.

[/quote]

Whats wrong with a bloke doing his job right

Loddy


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

It comes under the MOT because it is a revenue earner, ANPR systems struggle to recognise non standard plates.
So if you do not have a postcode on your numberplate it is likely that it is non-standard and unlikely to be recognised by speed cameras and safety cameras.
Which is bad as they are also used to check for un-taxed, un-insured, stolen of not mot'd.

So use the correct style plates then when your pride and joy gets stolen it can be found quite quickly.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Y'all,
We seem to be being regulated to the point of situation. Smacks of 1984.

OK we now must comply to a miriad of rules and regs most of which are keeping some pen pusher employed behind a desk or generating some tax on tax for the treasury.

There are undoubtedly more regs governing the construction and use than parts that make up the damn vehicle. OK plod has a job to do and law makers need to have some focus but where will it all end?

What ever happened to actually enjoying life before worrying about some miniscule infringement?
And just how many stolen vehicles have been recovered because they had a post code on the plate??

Yours persecuted.

Ray.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Heres a good ruse. if you work for a company who has lots of company vehicles take a walk around the car park and check them all. then go and tell the person responsible for getting them that all the company cars are illegal.

I,m going to do just this at lunch.

Phill


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

has nobody read the earlier post pointing out that the requirement has been dropped? (see addie's post on page two)

No its too good a story to be spoilt by facts


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> has nobody read the earlier post pointing out that the requirement has been dropped? (see addie's post on page two)
> 
> No its too good a story to be spoilt by facts


Quite right Frank. Like a lot of threads on here. It's amazing how many threads drift off-topic or misinform due to members not reading previous posts.

I agree with the views about plates that are unreadable, but not having a postcode. No wonder the regulation was dropped.


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

Just for the record and for those who have miss read the thread or not bothered to read it.
A. My number plates are the correct size, font , spacing ,background etc etc.The only thing in dispute was the lack of a postcode.

B. This is not a failure ( 6.3.1a ) for the purpose of a M.O.T which has now been confirmed by VOSA.It was suspended in October 2007 and the M.O.T certificate has now been issued.

C. Under the road traffic act to have number plates fitted to a vehicle registered on or after 1st Jan 2001 that do not have the postcode of the registration plate manufacturer is an offence.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

phil4francoise said:


> C. Under the road traffic act to have number plates fitted to a vehicle registered on or after 1st Jan 2001 that do not have the postcode of the registration plate manufacturer is an offence.


Phil 
Nearly right but not just vehicles registered after 1/1/01, Any number plate fitted after this date must comply with the new regulations. So when you replace your broken plate of fit a personalised plate to an older vehicle it must comply with all the regs including the manufacturers address (usually a postcode)

JP


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

So bottom line is -(most) vehicles have to have the postcode on by law, but not having it is not an MOT failure jobby? :roll:


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

I asked in my earlier post if you can add the post code yourself?
Does anyone know the answer :?:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

*Number plates*

I'm not sure if this is true, so please don't quote me on it...

I heard from someone last year that a friend of his who had their car stolen, and that although they were fully insured, and they were paid out in full, they did not retain the right to use the private number plate which was on the car at the time of the theft.

Apparently it has to be specified on the insurance or insured separately.


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## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

Barry,not 100% sure but as to add anything to a numberplate is unlawful ie sticking on an EU badge to save buying new plates then am sure adding a postcode has to fall under the same law.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Number plates*



Kev_Behr said:


> they did not retain the right to use the private number plate which was on the car at the time of the theft.


The right to use or assign a private plate rests with either:
1) The owner of the vehicle to which it is assigned
or
2) The person named on the retention certificate for that number.

If your vehicle is declared a "total loss", the ownership of the vehicle reverts to the owner - who will now be the insurance company or breaker that "owns" the salvage. If the MOT certificate is still valid or if the vehicle passes an MOT they can claim the right to assign the number.

So first tell your insurer that in the event of a total loss you reserve the right to retain the number (means nothing in law but may help).
Second, if you have the vehicle stolen or you suspect it may be declared a total loss after an accident, immediately make an application to the DVLA to transfer the registration number to a retention certificate. You must do this before you relinquish ownership or receive any insurance payout and whilst the current MOT is still valid. The DVLA will then send you a retention certificate and issue a new registration number for the damaged/stolen vehicle enabling you to transfer the number to another vehicle or back to the damaged/stolen one if it is repaired or recovered.


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