# Amazigh Tour - Desert Detours



## baldash

Just been on Desert Detours new Amazigh Tour. Probably the worst euros 1900 I have ever spent on a "holiday". Great if you like to camp on rubbish strewn beaches and urine soaked car parks with tours organised for English speaking guests by a non English speaking guide!! Don't fall for the hype on the blog. A third of the motorhomes abandoned the tour half way through and we only saw it out to the bitter end in the hope it would redeem itself. It didn't.


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## coppo

Oh dear. Bet you now wish you had gone on your own.

Paul.


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## aldra

it worried me too

prob would not have done it because of the dog

But it sounded so good

Aldra


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## Detourer

Hi Chris [balderbash]

Trust you got home OK. I confirmed your claim as requested in the email that you promptly submitted before this post.

The Amazigh Tour was and is specifically designed [by demand] for those who wish to visit eastern Morocco as far as and down the Algerian border. The blog.Info continuously refers to the fact that there are NO campsites in the region, although we did find and use a few, and that it is a tour for the "traveller" and not the "Tourist".

You had a English speaking guide, our own A'hammid, throughout..... even to the bottom of the 400ft cave complex and he was on the Kasbah tour where you, as your wife said, spat out your dummy and left.

The current blog that can be accessed below shows a few examples of rubbish strewn beaches and urine car-parks as well as your "Hobby" parked.

PS. The Meerkat is back on tour :lol:


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## Armadillo

As part of the one third who departed early from the Desert Detours Amazigh Safari in eastern Morocco, we can only endorse Balderdash's comments.

Right from the start alarm bells were ringing as it was difficult to get any hard facts about what we would actually be doing on this tour.....obviously because there was so little to do. 

I think all of us on the trip would have called ourselves travellers rather than tourists, all keen to experience new adventures. We'd all been to Morocco with Desert Detours at least once previously so knew not to expect European standards of campsites and cleanliness.

Admittedly we "jumped ship" 5 nights before the end, but from what I've heard we didn't miss much.

Yes, we knew we would not be on campsites all of the time, but I don't think any of us were expecting 6 continuous nights of wild camping where no research appeared to have been done with regard to cassette emptying , fresh water supplies and rubbish collection .

The location chosen for the first wild/free camp was a filthy and smelly beach about 400 metres long and in the middle of nowhere. No opportunity to do anything apart from walk up and down.

Second location was the already mentioned urine-soaked car-park in a small fishing port. At least here we had the option of wandering in the small town.

Third free camp of 2 nights duration was about 1km up a deeply rutted track into some woods. Not everyone in our group would have been able to leave the camp even to get bread in the local town some 5km away. In fact I believe we were yhe only ones to do so, on our bikes. Walks in the forest were mentioned, but it was obvious that Ray had never actually tried this himself as there were no tracks and unless you were a mountain goat you wouldn't get very far!!

Last rough camp, again 2 nights, was beside the deepest cavern in North Africa. For reasons of health and fitness or inclination only half of our group undertook the opportunity to go down into the caves. The view from our vans was great, but I'm sorry Ray, it wasn't enough .

There was just too much hanging about in general, in a vain attempt to pad out the time. Generally we were left to seek out our own diversions once in camp.

Morocco is a fascinating country but this tour just does not work. It was several days shorter than the brilliant Classic tour we went on 3 years ago, and for the same cost. Very poor value for money.


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## Detourer

Desert Detours never have been and never will be a "Motorhome Holiday" organisation. That with the utmost respect is best left to those that seek their Moroccan experience in the Agadir region……where you headed for after leaving the tour.

There was no time that you were not directed to water supplies or where taps were available and we collected rubbish [and cleared the harbour car-park] as and when.

Some like to share their beach experience with hordes of others, some will find walking up and down, watching fishermen fixing nets others casting rods of the beach boring. But nobody refused the fresh fish and sardine evening meal, charcoal cooked by the locals though.

Nobody did have to leave the woodland/forest, that was the whole point…..and you didn't go to the nearby village that was in fact 8 plus Km away … you remember, it was where you and the others filled with water and emptied cassettes on leaving. You and all the others did get fresh bread and cakes delivered by ourselves when we went to the nearby spring [that you didn't visit]. ………. as well as a full course evening meal cooked by the family of the ranger at the location and the hot freshly made pancakes, wild honey and tea next morning [that all but two couples thanked then for!]. A good picture of that site and the rutted track is on the blog. A location many non-tourists would die for….if they could find it.

One couple did take the opportunity to walk the tracks into the woods, visiting the nearby Berber village, sat with a family and saw the forest workers engaged in clearing and charcoal making. Another couple strolled and took photo's [eagles] for several hours.......

Of course we would not expect all, particular the elderly or not so fit, to descend the whole of the 600 hundred plus steps to the bottom of the deep cave. But all did take the first 40 or so steps to look down into the chasm. Nothing to do with health and Safety, as the photo shows on the Blog you and those who did choose to proceed deeper were given a boiler suit, hard hat and lamp and of course joined by the qualified guide and two of our own staff. But all credit you did "go all the way", as again the photos show, but then did say that the deepest cave in North Africa was "Boring". But we did note that it was not boring enough for one couple to fly in from Paris just for their second visit.

This tour, The Amazigh, is NOT for the "Tourist" and everyone who receives our information pack would clearly or should have understood that. In fact other than the "German" who attempted to follow and track us for the first few days, how many other Motorhomes did you see?

Anyway, two on the tour have already re-booked future trips with us back into the region when we will extend even more the concept of wilderness and remote camping as well as drop the few formal [except one] of campsites we did use.

Horses for courses I think and it's a tour and route that we will change very little ……. To quote Val [OldTart] who was on the tour…….."Our 5th Desert Detours Tour and by far the best!"

Several hundred pics will be available on the blog shortly for those interested [in the pictures only, as the 2014 tour, due to a surge of interest tonight, is now FULL]

But, I am sorry that you did not enjoy the tour…….perhaps there was too much expectations, as you said at the time it was not like the "Brilliant Classic Tour"…….

:wink:


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## baldash

*Amazigh Tour*

I can understand why the service provider would seek to justify their position but I guess that anyone using their judgement about the veracity of comments made might be swayed by the 50% client disatisfaction rate.


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## Detourer

Or the 50% re-book rate....... :wink:

But then some may also say the correct first procedure would be to contact the service provider, perhaps at the same time as asking them to back-up your insurance claim. But there you go.......

I do find it incredible that some could book onto a motorhome tour and fail to note from the pre-tour information, online brochure etc. all issued BEFORE any booking was taken thus………….

"It would be fair to say that this tour is more for the "Traveller" and not the "Tourist". The majority of overnight locations, whilst being stunning, will be remote and without facilities"……..

……"Will run on a NO fixed time schedule, other than being around 14 days in duration [you can stay in Morocco after the trip]. The style will be mostly wilderness and informal camping and will be a small group".

….."This will be very much an "adventure" and NOT for those who find the unexpected, bizarre and unusual impossible to except"……
……."Camping will be mostly "Informal and opportunist"…….

……."we are only issuing basic details [we don't want to see the east of Morocco flooded with wondering motorhomes just yet….."The pre-tour route is issued in a simplistic format" [a very simple and brief route overview was given]……

Note the words "majority", "without facilities", wilderness, informal and basic etc.

R.


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## Armadillo

Wrong, Ray, we did not head off to Agadir, but to Draa valley and Safi after that on the way back, initially along a road you advised us was impassable...............wrong!!

Take exception to you calling me a liar. We DID go into the town from the forest (ask Steve) and brought back bread to share out amongst everyone as we were concerned that provision had not been made. WE told YOU about the spring, as it had been mentioned to us by a local while we were in the town, but by then we had already cycled enough for that day

Just have your word that someone spent hours eagle watching in the forest. We were out for about 2 hours ourselves that afternoon in an attempt to DO SOMETHING. You had NEVER mentioned to us (always the "undesireables") that eagles were a possibility and I heard no talk from anyone later on that subject.

Whilst in the forest I saw people from at least 4 of the 6 vans digging out their own cassette emptying pit so don't try and tell me it was all done the next day in the town.

Yes, we really did appreciate the meals provided, just in case you are wondering.

2 rebooking (not clear whether you mean people or vans) is not a 50% satisfaction rate. 

Angela

The most important thing in any business is that the owner takes notice of what his ex-clients are saying.

For Mr. Smith to eulogise and give out the bull*hit he does, simply endorses the fact that he does not care , and I DO mean DOES NOT CARE. He has to know when it's time to hand over to the thoroughly competent Steve and A'Hammid before his delusions overtake him. ...probably overdue by about 3 years .

David


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## Stanner

Detourer said:


> Hi Chris [balderbash]


Am I alone in immediately disliking any poster who cannot bother to correctly quote someone else's screen name?

And.... Yes, I have done it myself, but only in response to those who appear to do it deliberately to annoy.


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## Jamsieboy

Well having read the complaints and responses I am not at all sure that I am attracted to join a tour anytime soon! Whether the complaints are valid or not.
Such exchanges are not at all suited to win business.
I think such differences of opinion are best dealt with between client and service provider privately.


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## fatbuddha

Jamsieboy said:


> Well having read the complaints and responses I am not at all sure that I am attracted to join a tour anytime soon! Whether the complaints are valid or not.
> Such exchanges are not at all suited to win business.
> I think such differences of opinion are best dealt with between client and service provider privately.


+1 with that

having a "slanging match" on an open forum does nobody any credit irrespective of whether people are suggesting that others do not use the provider - or that provider defending their position.


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## Armadillo

As Detourer was not prepared to pick up on the disquiet at the time or to ask what could be done to improve the "tour" then this is the only avenue open....unless someone has a better suggestion.

If YOU felt as if you had been conned out of almost 1900 Euros for 15 nights, what would you do?

Anyway, enough from me(I think) I am still seething but I am going to put this sorry mess where it belongs and get on with the rest of my time away.


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## organplayer

*Organplayer*

For what it"s worth, we have been on DesertDetours Classic Tour and the Discovery Tours of Morocco. Earlier this year we went on Ray"s Andalusia Tour which we really enjoyed. Some very nice meals were provided and we met up with friends we had made on the Discovery Tour, and we all had a super time. Thanks Ray,Debbie , Steve, Hammid, and Steve"s wife. Will probably be seeing you again. Thankyou all.


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## 91502

I don't think I would air my grievances in public this way unless you wanted your insurance company to be made aware of a possible fraudulent claim?

James


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## NormanB

Armadillo's findings above very much match our experience of a Desert Detours trip - very expensive and appallingly poor behaviour from Mr Smith - which I mentioned to DD in our post-tour comments and have since written about, in moderate and factual terms, on this website, only to have the thread deleted by the site admin.


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## Penquin

An interesting thread, if for no other reason than to see the depths to which things can sink when aired in public with tit for tat comments from both sides.

I was not there, have never been there and am unlikely to go there and frankly after reading the responses that DD has submitted am even more unlikely to use those services.

Take it as you want, but there is no smoke without fire and there is an awful lot of smoke blowing in both directions on this thread. I suspect it also will be deleted or locked.

Dave


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## wakk44

I agree with DaveP,I wouldn't want to book a tour with a company whose response to several complaints has been poor.To reply with tit for tat remarks on a public forum is quite frankly immature and not what one would expect from a reputable company.


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## baldash

*amazigh toor morocco*

I absolutely agree with James - if someone intended to make a fraudulent claim they would not come on this blog. On the other hand if their claim was legitimate then they would have no qualms especially, if for example, the facts were confirmed in an e mail by ,say, the Tour Director + photographic evidence of two mechanics working on the motorhome was available. Perhaps there is a little mischief making going on following adverse comments about the tour.


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## oldtart

This is the first opportunity I've had to respond to this post on the DD Amazigh tour. We are two of the very satisfied clients.

I am surprised, Baldash that you didn't comment on the support you were given from. Ray, Steve and Hammid on the breakdown of your vehicle on your initial post. After the problem was diagnosed in Taza, they arranged for the mechanics to come up to cave and then return the following day with the alternator. I only know this as we were parked next to you and very concerned that your problem was sorted. These mechanics travelled over 20 kilometres each way, as Ray didn't want you to be left in the town on your own.

For some time we have nagged Ray to go East! After reading his blog, researching in books and on the Internet we decided to do it. We wanted to do this remote Eastern trip going right up to and along the Algerian border. 

We knew from the blog and e mails to Ray, that there were a majority of informality sites and the aim was to visit remote farms, forest families and contacts. 

Yes, the beach was 'rubbish strewn'. The Moroccans had been holidaying there since Rays last visit. Anyone who has toured in Morocco knows the problems they have with rubbish. But far from it being 'boring' we spent well over half an hour talking to a local fisherman who was repairing his nets. Hammid interpreted for us. We learnt how and when he fished, the boats he owned, how they went out at night and hadn't been able to go out for the last two nights because of the weather conditions. He was also asking us abut where we lived and what we did. In the evening, the DD team had organised for a fresh fish meal to be cooked for us on a BBQ. 

Comments have been made about there being 'so little to do'. It certainly wasn't for us. It was extremely hot and we did not want to be going off all the time but appreciated some Time just to chill up and catch up on things, talking to others about what lay ahead. 

Another comment 'didn't miss much'. For us the visits to Figuig and Buidnib were two of the highlights of the tour.

Baldash - At Figuig, the guide set off with the group following. I was at the back with you and your wife. Hammid had been delayed. One of the group came back to us and said the guide did not speak English, only French. Like you I was upset, because I had looked forward to this visit. I said for the group to wait and I would get Hammid to sort out what had happened. You stormed off and your wife said that was it as far as you were concerned. Hammid arrived. It was all sorted out with Hammid acting as interpreter and a two hour tour lasted for five hours! We saw a Catholic Church that no-one knew was there we saw the Ksar Zenegra the oldest of the seven districts of Figuig and in the old Kasbah we were invited into the home of one of the residents. We went right up to the-Algerian border and talked to the guards. Many chouchrans were exchanged! 

At Boudnib we were guests of a farmer and his family who made us so welcome.

You said Aldra, that it looked so good. For us it was, as Ray said, for us it was the best tour yet. I haven't mentioned the incredible scenery, the welcome that we were given from so many different people. They'd even provided military personnel on the beach and policemen at the cave as a gesture of goodwill.

The last Moroccan I spoke to was the policeman at Tangiers Med. He asked me where we had been. He said it was wonderful that we had been East. I said it was our fifth visit and his reply was, why don't you stay here with us and touched his heart, wishing us a safe return to England.

Val

If anyone wants to know more about this tour, please do PM me and I will help if I can.


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## coppo

It just shows you. One mans meat is another mans poison.

We are all so different. 

I,m not sure what to make of this debate. Presumably the pre tour information made it clear that it was going to be off the beaten track into really remote areas. 

Even so, for that amount of money I would have expected a lot of initial research to have taken place with plenty of trips/meals/information organised etc. Sounds like there was things arranged though but I don't know how much, only those that went know that.

I would hate to see a business damaged though through this type of affair.

Maybe much more pre tour information about where you are actually going and what you will find/do along the way.

Paul.


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## oldtart

Hi Paul.

That's why I felt I had to respond to the posts on this topic.

There was information beforehand on the situation regarding chemical disposal, water and the nature of the informal campsites on the brochure of DD. This could be accessed by anyone interested in the tour. It is made very clear about the nature of this particular tour. I also did a lot of research on the places mentioned that we would be visiting.

I am very concerned, like you, that someones's business can be damaged , as you say through these posts. We took an extra cassette for the toilet so didn't need to do any digging!!! We were very careful with the water we used from the tank.

What I did not say in my post was to acknowledge Steve and Hammids fantastic input to the tour, and, so important, the research that Ray must have put in to organise the places we visited. Places that even travellers would not be able to access on their own and camp overnight with the protection we had as a goodwill gesture.

I agree with you that we are all so different. The debate on this topic proves that. 

As I said to Ray, it was the best DD for us. We have done Classic and Discovery and have travelled extensively in Morocco as can be seen from my other posts on Morocco touring. For us, personally, it was the best. We have enjoyed them all, otherwise it wouldn't have been our fifth tour!

Val








I did take a lot of time researching the places mentioned that we would be visiting where possible.


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## tubbytuba

Must say, Oldtarts contribution to this thread has been a far better way to explain the background to the tour and problems encountered than Desert Detours responses. I think he could learn from this more measured approach.

This thread could quite possibly have lost Desert Detours a few potential customers, so it's helpful to hear both side of the story - or at least different perspectives.
Steve.


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## cabby

Well no not really tubbytuba, if I was younger or even fit now I would consider going. The comments have not been exactly fruitful in information regarding the op problems, in fact I will even go as far to say that they might even have been biased on the negative side until oldtart posted.
Will we I ask get more than the 5 posts from the OP.

cabby


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## oldtart

Hi Cabby. As regards age, health and fitness dave was 70in July, and I was 70 the day before we left for Morocco. Dave had a hip replacement last November and will have to have the other one done when we get back. He did take a painkiller if we were going to walk anywhere and I had my Ventolin. Two old crocks!!!!!!

Seriously though, I don't know about your health and fitness but the only thing it really stopped us doing was going down into the cave. Ray was very good and gave dave a lift in his vehicle once! We were going somewhere and dave couldn't walk the distance.

It is really up to the individuals what they do at the locations if nothing has been formally organised. Quite a few of us took ourselves off in the forest. Dave and I chose a path that was fairly flat.

It was wonderful at one spot to walk along the shore to the -Algerian border, a spit of rocks going out into the sea, and then back following the police on horseback. We saw Moroccan women, young and old, swimming - some in their full jelabas with hoods and others in bikinis. Families were having a wonderful time together. 

There I am, off again about the tour! You've probably gathered how we felt about it!

Val


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## nukeadmin

well just caught up on this thread, having met Ray in the flesh I know he wouldn't maroon people and he has been doing the "touring" in far away destinations for many, many years

It appears that the dissatisfied posters may have had expectations not in accordance with the information they were given / that was available on DD website. Everyone's experiences vary, some love this type of meandering journey, experiencing truly unique events, others prefer maybe the much more organised affair.

I wasn't there, but oldtart was and her experience of the exact same trip seem in direct collision with the other poster.

I know what it's like when your business is being so directly attacked and its extremely hard to not bite back, remember DD isn't a vast corporation, its a family business and doesn't have social media representatives, you go on the trip with Ray, Ray answers on the forum etc. So it can be very difficult to not get unnerved by statements made on forums which are then seen by 1000s if not 100s of 1000s of potential customers. 

Always remember when any company gets negative feedback there are always 2 sides to every story  it is only when supportive posts appear do we start to see the big picture of what happened and who might be in the wrong etc.


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## ceejayt

O, we have been on three DD tours, twice to Morocco and lately to Andalusia (with organplayer). We very much enjoyed the first and the tird trips, the second trip was spoilt by a somewhat abrasive Motorhomers who just could not be satisfied with anything we did, when we did it, who we did it with. He ended up nearly busting a blood vessel and unfortunately spoiled it for others (my wife for one)

As far as the tours are concerned I would say they pretty much deliver what they promise. As for Ray, he is best described as marmite, you are either going to love him or hate him, he has a never ending store of stories and anecdotes and to be honest, doesn't seem to have a bad bone in his (somewhat ageing - sorry Ray) body.

On our first trip they definitely under promised and over delivered, the second trip had a bit too much mileage for my liking and the third trip was well thought out and had spectacular views with good sites.

Your 1900 euros is not for the camp sites or even really the ferries, you are paying for the knowledge - the intellectual property involved in putting together a trip in a country that can be fraught with difficulties when you go off the beaten track.

My advice, if you go on a DD tour, let go of the control, relax and see what happens. I spend loads of time planning when we go away - it is brilliant to just have two or three weeks when someone else takes all that hassle away, wake up in the morning, someone tells you where to go and get on with the day.

Sorry some of you seem to have had a bad experience, I guess it happens.


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## ceejayt

By the way, if anyone wants to see our blog from Andalusia Then it"s here

And some stuff on our morocco trip Right here


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## baldash

Just a final comment from me. Everyone that went on the Amazigh Tour had already been on a tour with Desert Detours before and presumably ejoyed themselves and felt they had good value otherwise they would not have booked again. That includes me.

Some of the comments on this section of the blog are from people who have been on another tour but have no experience of the Amazigh.

The FACT is that, so far, of those that have been on that tour there has been a 17% approval rate and if my comments + those who left the tour disappointed half way through equate to 51% disapproval rate with the remainder making no comment.


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## baldash

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all my readers. A particular hello to Mr Smith. All the best for 2014.


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