# They're very big aren't they?



## JackieP

Well, the insurance has paid out and we're ready to move on to the next adventure in our lives. We've been thinking for a long time about upgrading but have never found anything with the build quality that came with our old classic Hymer. And then we started to look at Rv's. 

You get an awful lot of van for your money and we're mighty impressed with the quality and features. Our budget only allows us to look at older models but that suits us fine. We're currently looking at 3 Safari Treks all around the 1995 age. A couple have the magic bed and one has the fixed bedroom. We're rather struck on the idea of having a bedroom. We've had 5 years of clambering up into bed every night and the luxury of a made up bed is calling us! 

The two with the magic bed are about 24 ft but the one with fixed bed is 27ft. After driving our 18ft around, the thought of an extra 9ft is exciting but a bit scary too. 

I guess once you're driving it there is little difference, but do you think we'll notice a massive difference when parking, reversing, getting out of tiny French streets?

If you can help with the length issue or have any other advice about our choice of vehicle then we'd be delighted to hear from you. 

We're flying over to uk next week to look at all three and it would be good to have some expert opinions under our belts before we go. 

Jackie and Bill.


----------



## DABurleigh

Jackie & Bill,

Good luck with the RV buying.

I looked a lot at Safari Treks a few years ago. The magic bed gives a wonderful space for the overall length. The cabinetry is great quality. The downside is minimal external storage in the shorter length. 

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about that size RV, though do not assume the lengths are external lengths - RVs are quoted by internal length and the difference is noticeable! Width is often a bigger constraint than length.

The killer for me, and why I have only recently lost interest in the RV route, is the fuel consumption. Even with recent smaller models, when you haul around that weight (most RVs need a higher class UK licence needing HGV test), the consumption is a killer for any extended touring. A lot of RVers in the UK don't venture very far.

Dave


----------



## JackieP

Thanks Dave. Some good advice there. 

Another reason we're keen on the fixed bed 27 footer is that is has the 3.5ltr Isuzu engine and, as we rarely go fast, we're hoping to get 18/20 mpg out of it. Still high consumption, but much better than the 6.5 Chevy engine.


----------



## Remus

We don't have an RV but our Bessacarr E769 is 28' 5" external length. It has a fixed (island) double bed plus another overcab double. We've never had a problem getting into campsites etc but I always make a point of mentioning the length when booking. We've also been to France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany in it with no probs. it has a 3 litre engine and on a good day I get 23 mpg although 21/22 mpg is more usual. I only mention this because your budget may enable you to get a more modern (but non-RV) motorhome that is big enough for your needs. Good luck with your search.


----------



## raynipper

Hi Jackie and Bill.
I found 34 to 36 ft. RVs in UK and Europe very little problem and in fact quite a fun challenge. But towing a car we found invaluable for shopping and sight seeing.

My info is a little old but if you have the time, our buying experiences stateside could be of help or even a laugh.

http://www.raynipper.com/About-us3.php

Ray.


----------



## teemyob

*winter*

Consider the winter too!

RV's are not always up-to what winterised European vans are.

TM


----------



## raynipper

Agreed TM.
RVs only started getting dual pane windows around 1994/5. But they often come with two furnaces.!!

Ray.


----------



## JackieP

Thanks again. Appreciate the comments. 

We spent a winter in Germany in our non winterised Hymer so know all about low temperatures. Our water froze every day and we only had a brief one hour opportunity every day when they defrosted long enough to have a shower and fill the kettle! 

That was with two 16litre gaslow bottles - the Trek has a 90litre tank, so we won't feel so bad about keeping warm.

Thanks for heads up about the single pane windows. The favourite at the moment was built in 1993 so I'm guessing that too will be single glazed. Something for us to look out for. Thanks.


----------



## listerdiesel

Most modern RV's are built on Freightliner truck-derived chassis with rear diesel 'pusher' engines.

We spent a day back in 2009 in Florida going round a big RV dealers and found it fascinating.

We're in California this week and next and will be doing the same again and picking up some brochures etc.

You can drive up to 7.5 tonne with no special licence, but after that you need an LGV licence. Once past 65yrs you have to have a medical every year to maintain that licence.

Peter


----------



## rosalan

Only a couple of observations.
I drove large buses for a while and you soon get used to where you can go or cannot venture. Sometimes it pays to plan ahead a little concerning parking, whether on an Aire, camping site or a town car park. You will also find many roads closed to vehicles over 3.5 tons.
My friend just sold his Damon with pull-outs, in reality this vehicle was a little too wide for European roads, in particular Peages. Parts of his mirror are still decorating the concrete blocks where you enter to pay or take a ticket and you do not want to know how much they cost.
Personally none of this would put me off. Finding somewhere to park at home is my problem; oh yes! and I am a bit stingy with money when it comes to fuel and maintenance bills. 
Good luck!
Alan


----------



## JackieP

Remus, thank you for your comments. It sounds as though you have a lovely van for the money. I'm not sure a modern van is for us though, even if we weren't constrained by budget. Our first van (commer highwayman) is now 31 years old and our Hymer was 29 years old. I think we're just 'old van people'.


----------



## JackieP

Ray, what an amazing story. I've just through a whole pot of tea while reading that. What adventures you've had. So inspirational. Thanks!


----------



## Patrick_Phillips

listerdiesel said:


> You can drive up to 7.5 tonne with no special licence, but after that you need an LGV licence. Once past 65yrs you have to have a medical every year to maintain that licence


In the UK you need a medical at 70 to keep the <7.5 tons and its every 3 years after that. I know 'cos thats when they put me on the pills - ut kept my grandfather rights for weight and trailer.

We are 7m3 long and tow a 4m56 car trailer. The 12m is not usually a problem but we often get charged an extra €1 for parking the trailer.
The big issue seems t be going over 8m with the vanas an awful lot of sites consider a pitch to be 8m long. Some sites charge double if you are over 8m - not many, thankfully!
DFDS and Brittany Ferries are starting to check heights and lengths which they never used to do...

Patrick


----------



## raynipper

JackieP said:


> Ray, what an amazing story. I've just through a whole pot of tea while reading that. What adventures you've had. So inspirational. Thanks!


Yes fun Jackie until Feb.2004 when we found out we were then penniless.
Sorry the story got a little untidy at the end when we had to sell everything stateside in a hurry and drag what we could back to France.

Ray.


----------



## loddy

I had a 1998 Trek TD on a chevvy P30 chassis , the only thing I didn't like was the narrow track at the front which gave a very wallowy ride.

MPG was about 18 with the TDiesel

A very substantial vehicle well put together

Loddy


----------



## olley

*Re: winter*



teemyob said:


> Consider the winter too!
> 
> RV's are not always up-to what winterised European vans are.
> 
> TM


They are if they are winterised.  Ours has a double bottom which holds all the tanks and pipework, plus this space is heated just like in many eurovans. No eurovan gives you the space and comfort of an RV at anywhere near the same price. Take ours, 30' with slides, apart from specially built ones at maybe £200,000+ no eurovan comes close. We paid £63,000, you can buy an awful lot of fuel for £127,000 :lol:

Ian


----------



## Christine600

One thing to consider is width. RVs are usually wider than MHs. This is great when you are parked but not so much when meeting other cars on narrow roads.


----------



## Sloany

Hi Jackie, we have just purchased a 28 foot Rv after owning several Hymers. We have just returned from a 3000 mile trip around europe with no problems at all. Queen size bed, full size shower,seperate loo, slide out on lounge, huge water supply inc hot water for a real shower, onboard aircon and generator the RV really made our trip a pleasure. All that comes at a price of course (14mpg) but for us it is worth every penny. I too tired of climbing into the swaying overcab coffin after my 2 min shower. Whatever you choose enjoy and safe travels.

Dave


----------



## JackieP

Brilliant. Thanks. With very post we read we gain a little more confidence. 

We're not really campsite people, preferring aires and moving on when we've seen enough of the area. Will we still be able to access aires in France and beyond? We've been trying to think of previous trips and can't think of many that we wouldn't be able to access but would welcome your comments on that.


----------



## Crindle

loddy said:


> I had a 1998 Trek TD on a chevvy P30 chassis , the only thing I didn't like was the narrow track at the front which gave a very wallowy ride.
> 
> MPG was about 18 with the TDiesel
> 
> A very substantial vehicle well put together
> 
> Loddy


Hi all.......we owned a 2430 Safari Trek 2002 for 6/7 years with the Electric Magic bed. Ours was on the P30 diesel Workhorse, Widetrack chassis hence no wallo. If you can accept the drop down bed concept it comes no better IMO than the Trek, a king size bed in seconds and absolutely rock solid. Absolutely luxury touring for 2 at a UK friendly size ie 24ft long, 96 inches wide. We have several Trek brochures, pm me for more info..........Crindle.


----------



## DABurleigh

It is such a shame Monaco didn't continue with the Trek when they bought out Safari. 

"We paid £63,000, you can buy an awful lot of fuel for £127,000"

Olley, this was my head vs. heart dilemma. One part of the head says the above. Another part moderates it when you do it on depreciation (true through-life cost) rather than capital outlay. RVs do depreciate an awful lot more than premium German motorhomes.

The heart then unfortunately anticipates the scenario where it's paid for, sitting on your drive, and you contemplate a 3 month European tour (we envisage up to a couple of these a year in retirement) and you then think the RV diesel cost is HOW MUCH??!! :-(

Reliability (especially slides), build quality (squeaks, rattles) and underbody protection were the other RV attributes that concerned me.

Dave


----------



## Sloany

Jackie, we never found aires we could not get on, only ones that were full. I do agree in some part about the build quality of Rvs, but more in the interior design. Ours is a 2012 model and whilst it is well put together with hardly any build noise, the kitchen cabinets are the same as a kitchen i fitted in 1980 something. I think the euro vans such as concorde, hymer etc etc will not be matched on style and finish by any RV. Where the euros fall down for me is size, equipment and payload, but we are a young family of four that want a shower every night and hairdryers,tvs, xboxes and maybe the aircon on for good measure.Have you considered hiring an RV from someone like Stingray RV?
You could do a three or four week tour to see if you need all the extra room and if your happy fueling and driving it. I belive Simon at Stingray will deduct the hire cost from the price if you wish to purchase. At least that way if an RV was not for you, you can give it back and carry on with the search.

Good luck 
Dave


----------



## JackieP

Cheers Dave. We seem to be swinging from YES let's do this, to WHAT ARE WE DOING! 

We're flying over to Uk on Friday and are going to spend 3 nights in the van, moving from one site to another. It's not a long time but it's long enough to get a feel for it. We got the tape measure out yesterday and measured 28 ft and it seemed massive. Certainly as big as an Isle of Man bus! 

Thanks for the suggestion of rental. I've taken a look at the Stingray site and I'm not sure even the cheapest vehicle is in our price range. We're reliant on the insurance payout to buy, and, on a 29 year old Hymer, it wasn't a huge amount.

Will keep you posted.


----------



## barrosa

Hi JackieP have a look at the machzone range well built easy to drive and plenty of space for the 2 of us plus 2 dogs, got rid of a auto sleeper for this one! Been great for the 8 months 10,000 mile around the UK.


----------



## barrosa

Hi JackieP have a look at the machzone range well built easy to drive and plenty of space for the 2 of us plus 2 dogs, got rid of a auto sleeper for this one! Been great for the 8 months 10,000 mile around the UK.


----------



## Spannerman007

*They're big arn't they*

Hi

I have had several American RVs over the last 30 years and I can say that the Trek was the best we ever owned. I think we kept it nine years. The Magic bed is a great idea as in the day time your bed is up in the roof already made up. This leaves a great living area in the daytime. It also has a large underfloor storage area with pass through lockers.
In my opinion I think that the 6.5 Chevvy will give a better economy as the 3.6 Izuzu will have to work harder to move the rig around.
Regarding winter use, it has proper double glazing and a large 40,000btu central heating system.
We did fit a european oven/grill as we found them better tha the original three burner unit fitted as standard.

Regards

Spannerman007


----------



## raynipper

Jackie.
I used to promote and front the American Motorhome Club UK No.1. for many years at shows and rally's.

I came into contact with many prospective RV buyers all worried about the size and length of American RVs.
I tried to advise buy as large as your storage or front drive would accommodate. 
Too many people moving up from a European van would only go to 22' or 26' as a compromise. I always met them the next year trying to sell their 'compromise' to get a larger model. 
Personally I was always happier in a 35' to 39' but realise not everyone shared my passion for size. 

Ray.


----------



## Annsman

Think toilet too! There aren't many aires or campsites that allow for dumping a large RV black tank. I was on a site this year where a couple of US 5th wheels and a RV hadn't banked on not being allowed to use the MHSP to dump their black tank before they left the site after a weeks camping!


----------



## raynipper

If you do have problems in 'dumping' the waste (we never did).
A 12v. macerator with 50m. half inch hose will pump it into most toilets.

Ray.


----------



## JackieP

All excellent stuff. Thank you. We were most cheered by your post on length Ray. 

There's no backing out now. The money's in the bank and we're off on the big silver bird on Thursday morning. It's very exciting but we're keeping a steady head. There's no way we'll be driving back here unless it ticks the most important boxes!


----------



## Sloany

Like Ray i never came across an aire that u could not dump the black waste. If they have toilet disposal they will certainly have a manhole cover you can lift and use. I keep a set of manhole keys in the RV just in case but ive never needed them. Plus you will only need to empty the tank once a week if that.

Dave


----------



## DABurleigh

Best of luck! Keep that head separate from the heart by not making a decision there and then. Go away for a meal and quiet drink for a couple of hours. Give yourself space to mull and discuss, THEN decide.

Dave


----------



## JackieP

Sheesh, talk about a wasted (expensive) journey. Why do people lie?

Our 'perfect' example had so much wrong with it you wouldn't believe, but lying in bed this morning watching the rain run down the INSIDE of the walls was the last straw. 

Back to the drawing board..


----------



## JackieP

And just to add insult to injury, the owners of the other two didn't even answer their phones or texts. 

Gutted doesn't even come close.


----------



## Nora+Neil

I'm sorry to hear of your wasted journey.

We went to Northern Germany to look at a MH and had asked loads of questions plus pictures of dealer before going. 
Any damage/mileage/owners/were they smokers etc.
No everything was fine, lovely clean MH, low mileage, only used by owners

We got there and first thing I seen was a big dent out of the table, it had been cover with a bunch of flowers in photo. It was dirty and smelled of cigarettes and it was a rental. Twice the mileage.

You think I had asked for gold when I asked would he replace the table. 
We walked away and bought in southern Germany on the same trip.

Its hard when you live on a island. Have you looked at any the Irish Dealers. 
http://www.thompsonleisure.com/

http://www.anchorpointmotorhomes.com/

http://www.donagheymotorhomes.ie/

Better luck next time.


----------



## barrosa

Hi JackieP are you still looking for the ideal motorhome as i was but found it in the Machzone range take a look, I don't think you will be disappointed!


----------



## javea

Jackie, you have a pm.

Mike


----------

