# is it what I think it is.



## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.

When we went from Spain into Portugal we came accross the border to find a sign saying foreigners use this lane which brought us up to a machine like the toll booth..

Strange!. So we put in our card as instructed and a charge of a few cents was taken and our card returned, then it printed out a reciept with our registration on obviously from the camera that was pointing at the front of the van, does this mean we can now drive through the green lane and the cameras will recognise the van and take the toll automatically. 

Not a problem at the moment as we are not doing toll roads..

What do you think, or have you the definative answer?...

ray.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

From our experience there are two types of toll road in Portugal.

The one that you have just registered with that deducts money from your card as you pass under number plate recognition gantries with no need to stop after the initial match of credit card to registration number.

.... and the other type where you have to take a ticket on entry and then have to pay at the booth on exit, these are signposted 'portagem' on the approach.


Pete


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## peterthebruce (Jun 21, 2006)

We did this earlier this year. We only used the motorway once on our way back out of Portugal and passed through the gantries with the registration cameras. Our credit card was charged accordingly. I checked that there were no more spurious charges over the next few months and it was ok. 

Someone obviously decided to come up with a solution to charge cars on older motorways that did not have the infrastructure to charge tolls, i.e. Toll booths at every exit. The locals buy passes from post office etc but i think it was difficult for foreign cars to do this. The machine at the border of Spain allows foreign cars to register for the motorways. Whatever you do don't pass this onto George Osborne, otherwise he will try it all over UK!


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Last year I drove through Badajoz oblivious of anything. I paid nothing, saw nothing and eventually left the country. Will I be on their black list I wonder?
Is it worth going all that way in the first place? 
Nobody else seems to use the major highways and I felt quite lonely.

Alan


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## 04HBG (Dec 9, 2007)

Yes Ray,
You can now drive on the motorway along the Algarve the A 22 and be charged automatically.
Your registration will only last for one month you then have to re register I believe.

Beware of the cost though it is not cheap.

RD


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Does this mean that we cannot avoid these toll roads and charges as we do in Spain by using the toll free roads through towns.

cabby


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

cabby said:


> Does this mean that we cannot avoid these toll roads and charges as we do in Spain by using the toll free roads through towns.
> 
> cabby


For the electronic tolling system on the Algarve motorway, either avoid it by using the N125 which runs right alongside it, or do what most Portuguese and all Spanish drivers now do: use the motorway but don't register & thus don't pay for doing so.

It's a Private motorway, and the Company that used to run the motorway and it's tooling camera system is now bust - it's in Administration, and they have no way to enforce/chase up non-paid tolls any longer. 
Additionally, there is no way for them to trace non-Portuguese plated vehicles.

We use it whenever we want to when over there and,on advice from many Spanish and locals, just don't bother with getting a smartbox or registering our Spanish registered motorhome and motorbike.


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## PeterandLinda (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi

I understand that what TheNomad says is correct, but we did get a box before they introduced the machines at the border for one reason alone, the Portugese police were, at the time the electronic tolls were introduced, stopping motorists and checking that they were registered to use the toll motorway and the police carry guns!

P&L


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

TheNomad said:


> cabby said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean that we cannot avoid these toll roads and charges as we do in Spain by using the toll free roads through towns.
> ...


Thanx for the heads up we are in Portugal now and we were going to register but will not bother now

Paul


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

.[/quote]

Thanx for the heads up we are in Portugal now and we were going to register but will not bother now

Paul[/quote]
As this seems to be a fairly new situation, could you please update this thread as and if the situation becomes clearer.

Alan


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Alan - the "advice" to simply ignore the electronic toll business on the Algarve motorways isn't really too recent - on Spanish motorhome and Spanish general chat forums this tip has been knocking around for at least a year now.

We had heard it from several sources well before we went over there fro a couple of months last Jan/Feb; and then again last May........used the motorway dozens of times each tour without any nasty consequences.

Spanish friends do exactly the same every time they are over there now.


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

rosalan said:


> .


Thanx for the heads up we are in Portugal now and we were going to register but will not bother now

Paul[/quote]
As this seems to be a fairly new situation, could you please update this thread as and if the situation becomes clearer.

Alan[/quote]

No probs Alan I will post any info that comes our way

Paul


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## tessajoe (Sep 23, 2008)

i am going to portugal very soon.and i dont think i will be avoiding paying any tolls,if i go to a country that has charges to use the roads i am using i will pay.do you people think that you are some type of bonny and clyde?
you want to go to that country for one reason,to enjoy yourself and see the sites etc etc.
portugal is in finacial difficulty so why are people who drive expensive motorhomes wanting to evade paying what the locals pay?
you are very happy to be in that country pay the money or dont bother going.


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## Zepp (May 14, 2009)

tessajoe said:


> i am going to portugal very soon.and i dont think i will be avoiding paying any tolls,if i go to a country that has charges to use the roads i am using i will pay.do you people think that you are some type of bonny and clyde?
> you want to go to that country for one reason,to enjoy yourself and see the sites etc etc.
> portugal is in finacial difficulty so why are people who drive expensive motorhomes wanting to evade paying what the locals pay?
> you are very happy to be in that country pay the money or dont bother going.


The Locals dont pay because they don't use them we came in on a main toll road ( YES i DID PAY TO USE IT )and the only other car we saw in 107k was a spanish car.

These roads were build by the EU with grants so how can they charge for them.The fact of paying for them is not the point its a nightmare trying to pay for them , no way am I linking a card to a number plate its so easy to clone a plate .

So don't tell me where I can go and how to spend my cash I will spend 1000s in Portugal .

Paul


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Errr steady the ship chaps... :roll: 



ray


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

You do what you want to tessajoe. Obey every last worldwide petty regulation and dictat or not as you decide. 

But please do not presume to lecture me on which I must obey or not in Portugal. That is a decision for me, not you.


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

TheNomad said:


> Alan - the "advice" to simply ignore the electronic toll business on the Algarve motorways isn't really too recent - on Spanish motorhome and Spanish general chat forums this tip has been knocking around for at least a year now.
> 
> We had heard it from several sources well before we went over there fro a couple of months last Jan/Feb; and then again last May........used the motorway dozens of times each tour without any nasty consequences.
> 
> Spanish friends do exactly the same every time they are over there now.


Hi,

THANKS for the initial info.

Could you give us a bit more info as to which roads this applies, is there an easy way to know if you are entering one that you can ignore? Is it only applicable in the Algarve or is the same true on the roads if travelling down from Santander?

Thanks in advance


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

tessajoe said:


> i am going to portugal very soon.and i dont think i will be avoiding paying any tolls,if i go to a country that has charges to use the roads i am using i will pay.do you people think that you are some type of bonny and clyde?
> you want to go to that country for one reason,to enjoy yourself and see the sites etc etc.
> portugal is in finacial difficulty so why are people who drive expensive motorhomes wanting to evade paying what the locals pay?
> you are very happy to be in that country pay the money or dont bother going.


As I see it if the company running the system is in liquidation/receivership so any money one pays is going to the liquidators/receivers and their accountants and lawyers - not to the government.

Geoff


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

tessajoe said:


> i am going to portugal very soon.and i dont think i will be avoiding paying any tolls,if i go to a country that has charges to use the roads i am using i will pay.do you people think that you are some type of bonny and clyde?
> you want to go to that country for one reason,to enjoy yourself and see the sites etc etc.
> portugal is in finacial difficulty so why are people who drive expensive motorhomes wanting to evade paying what the locals pay?
> you are very happy to be in that country pay the money or dont bother going.


I don't think the tolls apply to folks travelling 
on high horses, anyway . . .

:roll:


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

http://www.algarveresident.com/44744-0/algarve/tolls-are-illegal-says-commission

It could well be that the road tolls are illegal and the Portuguese government get taken to court over their introduction.
This may shed a more formal edge to the discussion.

Alan


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Afternoon folks,



What a farce, people don,t kow when to pay or how to pay or whether to pay at all, or if their card is going to be cloned. or whether you might get shot by the cops for not paying. With the Portuguese economy shot pieces you would think that the government would want to encourage as many tourists as possible instead it just creates uncertainty.


norm


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> TheNomad said:
> 
> 
> > Alan - the "advice" to simply ignore the electronic toll business on the Algarve motorways isn't really too recent - on Spanish motorhome and Spanish general chat forums this tip has been knocking around for at least a year now.
> ...


The information/advice that I keep seeing refers specifically to the privately built/run electronic toll motorway that runs across the southern, the Algarve, coast of Portugal. 
It's the A22 from memory (anyone able to confirm it's number?). 
It runs parallel to and mostly a little bit inland of the national road, the N125, all along that southern coast.

It is NOT a toll motorway the instant you cross the border bridge. It starts to be notionally a toll road immediately AFTER the first junction you come to after you've crossed the suspension bridge from Spain into Portugal.....to allow people to cross the border bridge but then choose get off it and onto the N125 instead by taking that first exit which is just a few kms into Portugal.
There is a big layby affair just 200 metres the Portugal side of the border, with signs inviting foreign vehicles to pull over and go through an off-motorway lane-thingy there, where there's a credit card registration machine. 
If you choose to pull in their and register to be fleeced, then the machine takes your number plate and credit card details.

Please be clear: it is NOT compulsory for foreign vehicles to stop and do that when entering on that road.
Even if you don't want to simply use the motorway further on without registering, you just continue on the motorway till the first Portuguese exit and come off there onto the N125.

There are two types of toll motorway in Portugal (as well as large stretches of free motorway of course): traditional tollbooth ones, and some electronic camera-gantry ones.

I cannot comment with any certainty on whether other similar electronic toll sections of other motorways elsewhere in Portugal have totally ceased to be enforced. I know that we have used several of them several times in the past year without any hassle, but I think each may be owned/run by different Companies, and it is only the one along the Algarve one that everyone in Spain seems to say doesn't need to be registered for any longer as there;s really no system of enforcement any more.

A bit more general info for people who haven't been over that way before:

The tollbooth ones are the "traditional" model that you'll find in loads of other countries. 
On the tollbooth ones you simply take a ticket at the start of the toll section and pay at the manned/automatic barriers at the end, or when you come off at any junction along the way. No camera gantries above the carriageways. They simply charge you "X" per distance/number of junctions travelled.

More recently (within the last decade?) Portugal entered into several public-private deals with Companies to build new stretches of motorway and then run them for "X" decades as a franchise. Some of these new motorway sections got fitted with a whole series of number plate recognition/smartbox reading cameras, on gantries between each of the exits.
The idea was that everyone would get a smartbox and register thei bank/creditcard details, fit it above their mirror, and then have their account debited each time they passed under a camera gantry.
But just as it was coming in on the A22, the country imploded.
The locals hated the system, so very few locals bought smartboxes; it was a massive hassle and almost impossible for foreigners to get hold of them. 
Additionally, many of the gantry cameras are regularly (I kid you not!) blasted out of action by disgruntled locals with their shotguns, to "blind" the system.
Toll traffic, and toll revenues even to begin with never got anywhere near to what the Company had extrapolated when they built the A22; and since the recession hit, I seem to recall a recent press report that said they were 70% to 90% down on target.
The managing Company has gone bust of course, so is now in Administration, and so far as I understand, is being helped out with cash loans by the Central Government on a week to week basis.

I assume that the Companies that own/ed all the other recently built similar electronic toll sections of more northern motorway are in basically the same bankrupt economic situation.


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

Travelled the entire length of Portugal 2 years agn the advice of some of the locals drove through the green lane,never picked up a ticket ,thus never paid a cent.
Boy was i glad to get into Spain :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Les


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