# Travel to France still busy.



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Despite the value of the Pound being decimated and people tightening their belts. Brittany Ferries (robbers) are completely full on most sailings. OK it's August but not the start and end of school holidays. 
Also just seen a friend off on the boat to Jersey. It also was full both ways. We see streams of UK reg cars coming from Cherbourg all the time.

I guess the value of the pound is not deterring people from splashing out visiting France.

Ray.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Despite the value of the Pound being decimated and people tightening their belts. Brittany Ferries (robbers) are completely full on most sailings. OK it's August but not the start and end of school holidays.
> Also just seen a friend off on the boat to Jersey. It also was full both ways. We see streams of UK reg cars coming from Cherbourg all the time.
> 
> I guess the value of the pound is not deterring people from splashing out visiting France.
> ...


Even if the rate of exchange was one to one France would still be great value compared to the UK


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

given the sh1te weather in the UK at the mo, I know where I'd rather be even with the poor exchange rate!


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

That's rather interesting as I would likewise have expected the ferries to be a bit quieter due to the exchange rate being low and peoples disposable income being squeeeeezed.

Having said that I wonder if the number of "traditional" summer sunshine countries, such as Turkey, Tunisia, Egypt etc that are now off the "accepted" tourist holiday destination list is having a greater effect and people are deciding to channel hop instead??

Glad I have booked a couple of lounge seats for my Poole Cherbourg trip next Thursday then. I don't mind children on ferries PROVIDING they are reasonably well behaved, but parents these days seem to just let them run wild because of course "they are _only _children and they are on holiday"

Grumpy, wot me??????

Just checked on BF's website, the Poole-Cherbourg outbound sailing for Saturday week(19th) is full and THIS Saturday 12th the cost for car plus caravan and 2 people ONE WAY is £414 !!!!!!!!!!!! Glad I booked early and paid just over £300 for a return crossing (with Club Voyage discount of course)

Andy


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

raynipper said:


> Despite the value of the Pound being decimated and people tightening their belts. Brittany Ferries (robbers) are completely full on most sailings. OK it's August but not the start and end of school holidays.
> Also just seen a friend off on the boat to Jersey. It also was full both ways. We see streams of UK reg cars coming from Cherbourg all the time.
> 
> I guess the value of the pound is not deterring people from splashing out visiting France.
> ...


BF.......robbers......how so?

Ferries full, any cheap competition on their routes long since failed due to non profitability.

In a market economy it would seem to me that their pricing structure works.......ferries full.

They are not cheap but I think good value and a good company to deal with, as far as I am aware they do not make excessive profits and are making big investments in new vessels and upgrading existing.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Plus of course a big bonus for many is that the Poole-Cherbourg route is daytime sailings both ways so there is no additional cabin cost to factor into the price, and there are rarely any delays on the road network (unlike the dreaded M25) OR inside the port due to high traffic volumes. 

Its certainly my port of choice these days (well as its only 20 miles from home it would be wouldn't it?) 

Andy


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

Join BF Club Voyage and get a free or very cheap cabin on many day crossings.:grin2:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Long story A142.
When we first bought in Normandy there were three carriers operating successfully and presumably profitably. All competing on service and price.
The lease on the Sealink boat came up for renewal several years later and at that time they declined to renew.
The monopolies Commission got involved and decided as there were still two carriers there was no problem as there was still competition.
P&O then due to being bought out by an Arab consortium decided to pull out of Cherbourg and concentrate on Dover.
This left only BF and we noticed immediately the prices rise. Then BF who had leased the FastCraft decided not to run it over winter and confined to only running Poole to Cherbourg and Portsmouth to Caen all year at times to suit themselves and not passengers.
We again have noticed the times and service go down and the prices shoot up especially on school holidays. £400 to £500 one way not uncommon.
I guess you can say this is "Supply & Demand" but there are no other carriers on the western crossings. Newhaven to Dieppe is always half BF prices. So imho BF are robbers.

Ray.
p.s. the cost of BF Club Voyager has also rocketed.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> That's rather interesting as I would likewise have expected the ferries to be a bit quieter due to the exchange rate being low and peoples disposable income being squeeeeezed.


Common sense would agree with that Andy however it is my opinion that due to excessive consumer spending and borrowing over a sustained period of time (since the last recession) - which is fuelling an impending crisis - people are now so used to spending on 'stuff' that creeping inflation and cost of living rises have not affected their outlook when it comes to nice things! Look at the sheer numbers of car finance deals that have been done over the last, say, 5 years...they act as a sort of bell weather for general consumer spending and outlook.

It will catch up with us sometime very soon I have no doubt...

Graham :serious:


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

raynipper said:


> Long story A142.
> When we first bought in Normandy there were three carriers operating successfully and presumably profitably. All competing on service and price.
> The lease on the Sealink boat came up for renewal several years later and at that time they declined to renew.
> The monopolies Commission got involved and decided as there were still two carriers there was no problem as there was still competition.
> ...


I can only reiterate what I have said previously about market forces, regarding competition ask the question why is there no competition.

All the other operators pulled out of this particular market presumably because they were making little or no profit, BF were undoubtedly in the same position and as soon as they were able increased prices to a viable level.

I think you will find that BF are not alone in increasing prices at times of high demand ie school holidays. Many would consider it sound business practice and I think the shareholders of any company that did not do this would be a little displeased.

I do not wish to travel from/to either Newhaven or Dieppe neither of them being convenient, involving extra miles and traffic, negating any cost advantage for me.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

FlyBe started a service from Bournmouth to Cherbourg and was full to capacity every day. But they shut it down after only 3 weeks. We never found out why but it wasn't losing money.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

raynipper said:


> I guess you can say this is "Supply & Demand" but there are no other carriers on the western crossings. Newhaven to Dieppe is always half BF prices. So imho BF are robbers.
> 
> Ray.
> p.s. the cost of BF Club Voyager has also rocketed.


Ray

I dont know where you get the idea that Newhaven - Dieppe is half the cost of Poole Cherbourg from.

I have just checked the current prices for next Thursday 17th (which is when I am already booked onto BF)

Newhaven - Dieppe (daylight sailing) with the 20% old codgers discount is £228

Newhaven is 140 miles or about 5.5 gallons of Diesel so roughly £30 worth each way So total cost is £228 + £60 = £288

Poole - Cherbourg (daylight sailing) with 30% Club Voyage discount is £203

Poole is about 20 miles or less than an hour from here, so a gallon of fuel each way adds about £10 so total cost is £213

So (for me) Poole to Cherbourg works out at £75 less.

If you then factor in the cost of BF's Club Voyage membership @ £70 against a single crossing, the Poole Cherbourg route is £5 less (but I do at least 2 trips to France each year so I save a bit more than £5 )

In addition I dont have an additional 120 miles (3-4 hrs) each way between here and Newhaven (plus similar distance/time the other side)

So that is why I choose to use BF out of Poole, it is actually marginally cheaper rather than being twice the Newhaven Dieppe cost.

Andy

Anyway living as close as you do to Cherbourg it must be a total no brainer for you??


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes Andy but I personally never travel in High Season. On the odd times I have checked BF Caen to Portsmouth, the Newhaven Dieppe crossing with my OAP 20% off gets it down to around half BF. But as you say the extra mileage my side and €8 tolls cuts the difference. No difference in miles for me UK side.
I have done it a couple of times with the camper and saved about £100. 

Ray.

p.s. we don't pay for the BF club discount and only use friends as it's not worth it for the odd trip per year.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Al42 said:


> All the other operators pulled out of this particular market presumably because they were making little or no profit, BF were undoubtedly in the same position and as soon as they were able increased prices to a viable level.


Spot on: This is an irrefutable argument.

Graham:smile2:


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Mrplodd said:


> Ray
> 
> I dont know where you get the idea that Newhaven - Dieppe is half the cost of Poole Cherbourg from.
> 
> ...


What would have been the result had you checked the prices at the same (early booking) time as you booked with Brittany Robbers?

.


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

eurajohn said:


> What would have been the result had you checked the prices at the same (early booking) time as you booked with Brittany Robbers?
> 
> .


Seeing as you ask:

Wed 20/9/17.....08.00 to 09.00........6m van with cycle rack, 2.6m high

DFDS Newhaven/Dieppe.......£139.50 (£111.60 with disc).......................................3 hr crossing

BF Poole/Cherbourg..............£158 (£110.60 CV disc)............................................4.25 hr

BF Pmouth/Caen..................£172 (120.40 CV disc)..............................................5.75hr

P&)/DFDS Dover/Calais.........£60/65....................................................................1.5hr

Bearing in mind the length of crossing which will be directly proportional to the operating costs of the crossing who exactly are the robbers??:smile2:


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

It makes me laugh when people refer to BF as robbers! It's market forces pure and simple. Are BMW robbers because their cars cost a lot more than a Skoda or a Ford or a Fiat? Are Miele robbers because their washing machines cost more than a Beko? BF offer a quality service on a fleet of excellent vessels on routes that in the main are longer than those operated by the opposition. 

BF for us every time!!!


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I only do the tunnel
What am I missing ?

Sandra


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

All down to personal choice, along with "You can save time OR money, rarely both"

For those living near Dover it's a simple choice, for those of us living further away it's a matter of doing your homework and deciding what's best for US, and there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account rather than simply using the cheapest ferry. 

I like the convenience of using Poole because it's less than an hours travel from home, and, when I have worked it all out, it offers what I consider to be the best all round package for me, taking into account cost, mileages and time. 

Others will have a different set of parameters with which they make their decision. That doesn't mean either of us are "wrong"

Andy


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

aldra said:


> I only do the tunnel
> What am I missing ?
> 
> Sandra


Sandra

Compared to me you a missing a 4 - 5 hour journey from home to tunnel, I have a ferry service less than an hour from my front door!

Andy


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Horses for courses. I live 15 minutes from Poole port but since I retired I use the tunnel. When I worked and went once a year I used it every time. With frequent traveller the tunnel is £55 each way and I now go three times a year and share the other four trips. I do not know what three return trips would cost me on Poole - Cherbourg but it is £330 on the tunnel. I believe the saving by using the tunnel is worth my time and diesel cost but each to their own.
Incidentally when I first started to use BF's in 1989 they published a price list for the year, now of course it is fare by demand.


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## caulkhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> All down to personal choice, along with "You can save time OR money, rarely both"
> 
> For those living near Dover it's a simple choice, for those of us living further away it's a matter of doing your homework and deciding what's best for US, and there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account rather than simply using the cheapest ferry.
> 
> ...


Dead right Andy! We live on the Isle of Wight so it's Pompey or Poole everytime for us. Poole is great as a departure point. No hassle, friendly staff and you can park up overnight if needed. I love going out through the narrow channel, great memories of trips to Shell Bay when I was a kid living in Bournemouth, out past Old Harry Rocks and 4 hrs later docking in Cherbourg.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Al42 said:


> Seeing as you ask:
> 
> Wed 20/9/17.....08.00 to 09.00........6m van with cycle rack, 2.6m high
> 
> ...


The point I was trying to make was simply that Andy had quoted prices for an early booking and then compared to a last minute booking, :smile2:

Your stated prices are somewhat different to the amount Andy has paid probably because the vehicle / people involved are not the same.

If going back to UK for any purpose in car we often will use Brittany as the driving times are less and the boats are nice, however if taking the motorhome it's Dieppe every time I can't warrant the second mortgage required for their ticket price.

.

.


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## Al42 (Aug 4, 2011)

eurajohn said:


> The point I was trying to make was simply that Andy had quoted prices for an early booking and then compared to a last minute booking, :smile2:
> 
> Your stated prices are somewhat different to the amount Andy has paid probably because the vehicle / people involved are not the same.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the point you made about the booking which is exactly why I took the time to do the above comparison.

I could only do the comparison using my own van and I think any reasonable person looking at those figures and factoring in the distances and times for the crossing (operating costs) would not call them 'robbery'.

My own point is that the costs per mile for the other 'cheaper' crossings are actually higher than BF so again I ask.....'who are the robbers'?......or are they all simply operating a market driven service.

My opinion is that BF isvthe best of the bunch


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Al42 said:


> I appreciate the point you made about the booking which is exactly why I took the time to do the above comparison.
> 
> I could only do the comparison using my own van and I think any reasonable person looking at those figures and factoring in the distances and times for the crossing (operating costs) would not call them 'robbery'.
> 
> ...


And of course everyone is entitled to an opinion 0

.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

A friend here needs to get to Leeds. BF and driving long hours was €360 one way.
Ferry to Jersey €35 and flight to Leeds/Bradford €55. Total €90.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Eurajohn

I did quote the price I had paid by booking early to show the advantage of doing so rather than leave it closer to the date of travel. 

The prices were for a 5m car + an 8m caravan + 2 adults and will certainly be a fair bit more than for just a MH 'cos my rig is over 12m long and takes up a lot of deck space!!!

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Will we be seeing you on Thursday then Andy?

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

if you are around it would be nice to have a cuppa and put a face to the name after all our chit-chat concerning long term rentals!

Mrs P has booked (and already paid) for an overnight stay at Villedieu les-Poeles. We are joining family in the Vendee the next day and I didn't fancy trying to make it there on day one whilst towing. I've got six weeks so one day isn't going to make much difference!!

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

OK Andy.
Your welcome to plug in if you choose but we will be having lots of comings and goings this coming week. 
We have neighbours camper plugged in today. Friends staying next weekend in their new camper. And more friends staying in the house at the same time.
As well as all that we have had ten enquiries for our Hobby and lookers are supposed to be turning up all week.

You might see what life is like in Normandy.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Thats a very kind offer Ray, but it looks like you have a pretty busy week ahead of you so I wont add to the melee!

I might be in touch nearer to our return date (Ferry booked for 28th Sept) as I really would like to meet up at some point!!

In the meantime all the best for (I presume) the sale of your Hobby. You are going to replace arent you????? 

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

No problem Andy if you want to drop in please do so. 
Within 12 hours of placing the add for the Hobby I must have ten what appear to be serious lookers. Controle Technique (MOT) Monday so it might be sold by Friday.

Y'know Andy, one of the reasons I have been so hesitant about selling our 'old' camper is it's pre electronic and therefore almost bulletproof. It will go on as long as the body stays in one piece.
The newer ones after 2010 being electronic and far more temperamental I feel are always giving problems either real or perceived. So will reserve the decision to buy again. Never say never.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

All of the motorhomes I ran were "electronic era" ones and I never had a moments trouble with any of the electrics (vehicle or habitation) maybe I was just lucky?

Andy

P.S. you could always come across to the dark side!!!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sadly Andy, dropping from 12m. RV to a 7.8M. Euro shed somehow didn't cut it for me. I have seen people struggling with large double axle caravans and don't want to end up as the cabaret.
I'm in a bit of a cleft stick right now. Gorne right off flying and quite like car and hotel jaunts. Not that I particularly like hotels. If a 11m. RV dropped into my lap I might weaken.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

No point whatsoever in struggling, a motormover takes all the hard work out of manouvering and enables miilimeter precision (yes really) 

The only cabarets I have witnessed have been those who clearly have no idea how to reverse a car and caravan or, even better, those who don't know how to put up an awning. 

Hours of enjoyment to be had watching either. Before you ask Yes I CAN reverse my rig (if required) but much prefer to use the mover (or let Mrs P use it because, for some reason, she really enjoys it. Strange things women aren't they?) 

My concern with an 11m RV would be the restrictions on where I could take (or pitch) it, but with a beast of that size there would be no problem towing a car to allow sightseeing. Having said that there is no way on the planet I could park such a large vehicle alongside my house and I refuse, point blank, to even consider storage. I 'spose I could move to Normandy, I wonder what it's like :wink2::wink2:

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I really do fancy this............................. and can store it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COUNTRY-C...p&sd=162618965069&_trksid=p5411.c100169.m2942

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I'd love to have the sort of money to be able to even CONSIDER buying it. 

16 years old and STILL worth that sort of money, WTF did it cost new?????

It might just be me but to my eyes it has the air of "Romany" about it (etched glass round the shower etc) 

I shudder to even THINK of what the cost of Poole to Cherbourg would be with it


Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> I shudder to even THINK of what the cost of Poole to Cherbourg would be with it Andy


Thats my main problem with any RV Andy and the MOT.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

And the (lack of) MPG ???

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Narrrrrr, you don't go shopping or sightseeing in the RV.
On the other hand Andy what does a large 4x4 get towing a heavy caravan. 12 to 15mph. That 14 ton RV will likely get 12 mpg.

Ray.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

Where would you stop Ray? When we had our 29' Allegro, we struggled sometime on the continent. Your right about MPG, we got the same with the RV with a car on the back as we did with a Volvo estate and caravan. We were lucky, all the time we had a RV both P&O and Sealink/Stena were clients of mine and we had free crossings, even to Bilbao a couple of times.


Malcolm


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We didn't do a great deal of touring in our RVs Malcolm. But stopped on the Med between St. Maxine and St. Trop for many years. Then Bergerac, west coast and Le Mans.
I guess with the car once we found somewhere that accommodated the RV we used the 'toad' extensively. But I never had too many problems piloting large RVs in France.
Subj:	Dum things to do with a RV.

Dear Editor,

Apart from my claim to fame by dropping my rig into our sceptic tank, I have managed to bring two towns to a standstill in France with my RV.
The first time in a town called Cassis on the Mediterranean. I was being guided to the beach by a group of friends who joined us in the motorhome. They directed me off the motorway down into the town where all of a sudden a tight bend lined with concrete bollards brought me to a standstill. My 34ft. just was not going to bend round this obstacle.
To compound my situation it was high season and hoards of French holidaymakers were also trying to get to this beach, so the traffic immediately backed up through the whole town. I tried to reason with the guy behind me to back up but he just closed the window and looked the other way. I was unable to go anywhere.
Eventually with the town at a standstill a Gendarme arrived and gave me the worst tirade of rapid unintelligible French I have ever been subjected to. 
Taken aback and unable to comprehend I backed up to the door of the rig, still getting the fury of the Gendarme. Having nowhere else to go I backed further into the rig and the policeman followed still wagging finger and tongue at me.
Now finding myself completely backed into a corner with no escape I did what any self respecting Brit would do in a difficult situation, I put the kettle on and prepared to make a cup of tea.
This infuriated the official who unable to get anywhere with me, left and took his fury out on the cars behind me. Who under his gesticulations backed up sufficiently for me to reverse out of the jam.
As we reversed back out onto the main road still with the policeman preventing other traffic from blocking us again we passed a sign which the cop pointed to with his gun. It read NO BUSSES. 
I then knew what all his ranting and raving had been about. But I had been directed by a car driver who never drove anything larger than a Renault 5.
I will save the other one for later.
Ray, 

Dear Editor,

The other time I brought a French town to a standstill was five or six years 
ago in Brittany.
Our 34ft. Winnebago towing a small Citroen car was still around 48ft. long. 
We had left the southern coastline of Brittany and were intending to head for 
a campsite in St. Malo, a nice fortified port and town.
On the way we passed signs to the town of St. Brieuc that I have never 
visited and had been told was picturesque. So taking the "Centre Ville" or 
"Down Town" turning we wound our way into a most beautiful central square.
The trouble was the three exits were either a multi story car park, an open 
car park with a height barrier and a pretty cobbled windy street that was 
closed to traffic and full of tables and chairs. It's quite common in high 
season for restaurants and cafe bars to place the tables and chairs in the 
streets for tourists.
I stopped bang in the middle or the road and got out to survey the situation. 
Angry traffic hooting as they climbed the kerbside onto the footways brought 
a female traffic cop and my wife hid in the bathroom.
This policewoman realised the situation immediately and beckoned me to follow 
her into the cobbled street full of dining tourists. She waved the diners to 
drag their food laden tables aside to allow me to squeeze by. I still have 
recollections of people still chewing with food on their forks staring up at 
me in astonishment as I passed. 
Eventually after two more wiggly streets like this, we came out onto a normal 
road again. The policewoman smiling and wishing me "Bon Voyage" waved us away.
An hour later we pulled into the campground intended and parked outside the 
checkin. It was then I found the car keys in my pocket. 
We had dragged the car with the steering locked, luckily straight, for over 
100 miles, through the tiny winding streets of St. Brieuc, around St. Malo 
and into this campground. And I never noticed a thing.
Ray,


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Great stories Ray, I remember the last one from before.

We watched a program about people in the USA last night in travel channel buying Rv's. Good grief they were massive. Half a million dollars some of them used!!

I have to say though some of the more expensive ones were hideous inside. Just bling city. Massive TV screens and shiny stuff everywhere. I had to wonder how the hell they are powered off grid. 10min of running a TV that size would flatten my battery. 

Kind of divorced as much as possible from the idea of freedom and the ethos of camping but the Buyers were drooling over them. 

I can see the appeal if you maybe stay in three or four locations
Throughout the year a bit like Alan (Erneboy) does but I don't think I would ever want one. Not the places we go


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sorry, just realised I already sent this. Age I guess.????

Ray.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

raynipper said:


> Sorry, just realised I already sent this. Age I guess.????
> 
> Ray.


Don't worry, I had not seen it before.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

barryd said:


> Great stories Ray, I remember the last one from before.
> 
> We watched a program about people in the USA last night in travel channel buying Rv's. Good grief they were massive. Half a million dollars some of them used!!
> 
> ...


Most unusual to get a RV without a genny, and most of them start at 4.5Kw. Ours weren't quite as noisy as you would expect, and I believe you can get silent ones now. Plus the fact that you can carry a week or more worth of fresh water and sewage. A couple of times we've spent 7/8 days on the old coast road near Sete without having to fill/empty anything. We found the size was easier wilding than on sites.

Malcolm


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

A couple of years back I had to come back from the Algarve for a family bereavement, I left Sandra and the dog in the van and flew home from Faro to Manchester cost one way £35, cost back £35 and I had 3 seats to spread out on as the plane was half full..

ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Heres a French bargain...........................
http://www.cabinet-faudais.com/annonces/achat/maison/saint-lo-50/121647801.htm

Ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just been watching Yesterday on TV and a series of "Wild France". Absolutely fabulous photography and revelations of the diversity of French wildlife.

Ray.


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