# No car tax - No MOT



## 109228 (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a motorhome which I took to Spain 4 years ago. it has been parked up on a friends land but never used on the road. The problem I have is I am now returning to Scotland (I live 3 mins from Rosyth Ferry port). 

Would anyone know if I can board the ferry without car tax or an existing mot certificate. My ferry is booked on 19th January and I have booked my motorhome in for its mot on 20th in Rosyth - 2 hours after disembarkation therefore allowing me to get my car tax if it passes. 

Although I never used it for travel i always kept my insurance running yearly in case of theft, fire etc. The reason for this enquiry is I am being told I may not be able to board. PLEASE HELP I'M AT MY WITS END!!!!!!! I have no other means of transport to get home and cant leave it behind as my friend has sold his property.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Insurance*

Hi

This is my question.....

Is the van insured to drive on the road?

I suggest you speak to the DVLA at Swansea and have a chat.

Russell


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry Rotty, can't help much but feel for your dilemma.

In the UK you are allowed to drive the vehicle to the MOT station for a test so long as an appointment has been made. You are supposed to take the most direct route I think.

I suppose you could argue that your journey begins in Spain - I'm not being intentionally daft, but in your situation I can't see an alternative. If the van is adequately insured I can't imagine the ferry company would object.

Lot of guesswork here I'm afraid - but I bet somebody will know.

Cheers


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## andyangyh (May 1, 2005)

No-one I know has ever been asked to provide proof of MOT etc when boarding a ferry. Your insurance company may have something to say about you driving a vehicle with no tax or MOT (assuming you have a UK insirance company). I don't think your problem is the ferry company - I think you need some answers from your insurance company.


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

I fear, my friend, that you are in the deep do-do.
Methinks your first problem is getting from Spain to the channel. I believe your van needs to be road legal in order to do this and yours cleary isn't.
Sure someone who knows the letter of the law will clarify. Bonne chance!


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## 97201 (Jan 7, 2006)

Who are you insured with?

Ian


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## tokkalosh (May 25, 2006)

Sorry to say that as I understand it, if the vehicle is not MOT'd & taxed then the insurance is not valid.

A quick call to the insurers would clarify this.

Good Luck.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

comfort insurance are members on here (well I think its them, it's their name although they haven't posted yet) why not run it by them?? If it is them they may be able to give very general advice


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## daismarg (Feb 13, 2007)

*Motor home MOT*

We live in Spain and our Fiat Sundance is due its first MOT in June and living out here we always worry about the MOT. We have tried to get the vehicle Spainish registered so to solve the problem of going back to UK just for a MOT but the Spanish will not register it as the door is on the wrong side!

We have always kept the tax up to date as it has British plates and don't want to be stopped by the local police for not having the correct documentation for the motor home. We have booked the Eurotunnel for May and we will be going back to UK to get the motor home MOT and that has been booked from Spain via the phone. We feel it isn't worth the risk to let the tax, insurance and MOT lapse as you never know what may happen whilst driving on foreign roads!


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree the problem is not at the UK end or getting onto the ferry. It is not possible for you legally to travel from Spain, through France to Holland for the ferry to Rosyth. You are a guest driver. You have to have a vehicle in compliance with your home rules ie taxed and MOT'd as well as insured.

I'm not sure about talking to either your insurer or the DVLA. If insurer says no, you have no insurance to worry about. DVLA are likely to treat as a permanent export and that will stop you getting an MOT so you won't even be legal coming off the ferry

You have 3 stark choices

Have it towed or flatbedded to port of departure, Expensive

Take a risk and drive through europe illegally, no one may ever know, as long as you are not stopped and there is no accident. BUT think of the consequences and the risk. Illegal. My advice is don't. But you probably will and so would most of us. Your insurance will be Ok as long as the vehicle is roadworthy for use upon Spanish, French and Belgium or Dutch roads. have a full service first because it has been laid up for so long

Export the vehicle to Spain put it throuh its ITV, register and insure it in Spain, and then re import it to UK and go through the MOT again. Do you have an NIE/NIF etc to do that? Complicated.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: Motor home MOT*

What is the situation with Spanish and French registered vehicles?

If they have to pass a similiar MOT type test, why not get the MH inspected and passed, you will then be road legal on the continent.

If they don't need one, then you will be road legal once you enter the UK as you have the MH booked on a firm appointment.

Its a good idea to get it inspected and serviced before you tempt fate with a journey if its been standing for a long time anyway.

Regards

PS the situation over taking a vehicle to a Testing Station without tax has been chewed over in many other posts, so take it as read, *YOU ARE LEGAL IF IT HAS BEEN BOOKED IN *(subject to to it being not obviously unroadworthy)

Regards


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## krull (Jul 22, 2006)

tokkalosh said:


> Sorry to say that as I understand it, if the vehicle is not MOT'd & taxed then the insurance is not valid.
> 
> A quick call to the insurers would clarify this.
> 
> Good Luck.


Most insurance certificates are only invalid if you have no licenese.

Personally, can't see the problem, you have taken reasonable steps to get it MOT'd asap.

Lets face it Tax and MOT are not exactly critical. As they say 'needs must when he devil drives', just be prepared to take the wrap if you get nicked.


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

I know what I would do.  Get in it and drive it to the Mot centre in Scotland. If you want you can get a Spanish ITV which may help if the Garda stop you but will mean nothing to the French . Is this a presentable looking van ? if presentable you probably will not be stopped by any police. Drive carefully


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

rottytara said:


> The reason for this enquiry is I am being told I may not be able to board. PLEASE HELP I'M AT MY WITS END!!!!!!!


Firstly, the Spanish authorities have no way whatsoever of checking your MoT status, and will care even less if it's on the car park being loaded onto a ferry to the UK. The road tax may be an issue as you do require to display a valid disc in Spain, but again, if you're leaving and are prepared to drive it to the port, I can't see them taking a view there even it is is noticed.

Secondly, the workaround at Rosyth is to pre-book an MoT *for the same day as you disembark*, making sure the garage notes your registration number and other vehicle details. Then you may drive it legally to your garage of choice - and you should certainly do so, not drive it home.

It is of course a pre-requisite in any country that you have your vehicle insured.

Dougie.


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

Having read a bit more on this topic I conclude the following:
If you are using your foreign registered car in Spain for a few months (no more than six months in any calendar year is allowed) then it must be legal as far as MOT, insurance and road taxes are concerned. You cannot get your car MOT-ed in Spain, or even in Gibraltar, and if the certificate runs out you will be illegal in Europe also Spanish vehicles have to conform to inspections also, depending on the type and use of the vehicle.
Whilst no-one can know you have no MOT they can see you have no tax, and that's your problem inSpain, and any other EU country you travel thro'. No prob in the UK if you are driving straight from the ferry to a BOOKED appointment.


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

IMHO the real problem lies with the person injured in an accident when the the driver at fault is not insured. Insurance companies try every which way to avoid paying out if they can find a loop hole and no tax or MOT is a big loop hole.

Rottytara please, please check out the insurance angle before travelling anywhere.

Sue


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

Insurance should not be the problem if the company have been accepting your premium and you have a valid insurance certificate. Lack of MOT/tax would not affect your Third Party cover unless there is a specific exclusion in the policy (unusual - but check with your company) and they would in any case have to deal with any Third Party claim under compulsory EU insurance requirements. 

Make sure your vehicle is roadworthy to MOT standards by having a local garage check it over even if you cannot get the piece of paper. After 4 years of non use, the tyres and brakes in particular need checking. 

If you have comprehensive insurance cover, lack of MOT may cause difficulty in proving the vehicles value should the worse happen but a prior garage check should help you there. 

Sorry I do not know the legality of MOT/tax in Spain and France and I think this is your main problem


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*Spanish Insurance*

You can Insure your vehicle in Spain no Problem .contact Knight Insurance,


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

You can only use a UK registered vehicle abroad for the length of time it is taxed, insured and MOT'd. If you allow any of those to expire, you're stuck!

In practical terms, you're faced with an illegal drive to the ferry, or a low loader.

I assume that you'll opt ofr the drive, so best of luck.

Once at the port, it's straightforward:

No MOT - but pre booked for same day
No Tax - but will be once MOT'd
Insurance - could be a big fight if claiming on fully comp side, but third party side will be OK.

You just need an incospicuous journey to the ferry.


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## rft (May 4, 2006)

Waggy said:


> Insurance should not be the problem if the company have been accepting your premium and you have a valid insurance certificate. Lack of MOT/tax would not affect your Third Party cover unless there is a specific exclusion in the policy (unusual - but check with your company) and they would in any case have to deal with any Third Party claim under compulsory EU insurance requirements.
> 
> Make sure your vehicle is roadworthy to MOT standards by having a local garage check it over even if you cannot get the piece of paper. After 4 years of non use, the tyres and brakes in particular need checking.
> 
> ...


As far as RFL is concerned, if you do get prosecuted in the UK it is not an endorsable offence. The lack of an MOT could prejudice your insurance, however, the above advice is good. You need to get the vehicle thoroughly checked and serviced in Spain prior to departure so that you could prove, if necessary, that the vehicle was CAPABLE of passing the MOT. Get evidence of all the work in writing. I think the insurers would have to demonstrate that something that had not been done which would have been necessary to pass an MOT had caused an accident before declining to indemnify you. None of the foregoing is a guarantee that you won't have a problem should you have an insurance claim, however, it all helps.

PS Despite what some people think, insurance companies do not 'do everything possible to avoid paying claims'.


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

rft said:


> Waggy said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


!!!!!


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

I think some of the responses here a somewhat disingenuous.
You have a number of problems:
1 No tax/mot-you will not be displaying a valid tax disc during your drive from Spain to ferry. This is an offence and any copper will be able to spot the lack of a tax disc. The missing MOT is less of a problem if the vehicle is road worthy and any way no copper can tell it's missing unless you are given a tug.
2 Insurance-an insurance company taking your money and issuing a certificate each year is no guarantee they will pay out in the case of an accident. After all they do not know whether your van is roadworthy, but soon will when they examine it after an accident, and if they do and it's not, they'll wriggle more than a wriggly worm thing on a fishing hook.
3 No tax/mot in the UK. No problem as long as you have a booked test and are going straight to the test station. I would suggest an MOT station as near the ferry port as possible, don't drive all the way home.

I wish I could be more positive and provide some answers as I'm sure you were praying would be the case when you made your post. 
I would have expected a clear cut answer by now, not a lot of opinions and speculation.


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

bear1 said:


> I think some of the responses here a somewhat disingenuous.
> You have a number of problems:
> 1 No tax/mot-you will not be displaying a valid tax disc during your drive from Spain to ferry. This is an offence and any copper will be able to spot the lack of a tax disc. The missing MOT is less of a problem if the vehicle is road worthy and any way no copper can tell it's missing unless you are given a tug.
> 2 Insurance-an insurance company taking your money and issuing a certificate each year is no guarantee they will pay out in the case of an accident. After all they do not know whether your van is roadworthy, but soon will when they examine it after an accident, and if they do and it's not, they'll wriggle more than a wriggly worm thing on a fishing hook.
> ...


I think people (myself included) have given valid views.

As far as a "clear cut answer" is concerned, many have said it quite clearly - we think that a low loader is the only way of legally moving that vehicle.

As far as "opinions and speculations" are concerned - well that's what forums are all about. In fact, EVERY forum answer on legal matters is speculation, based on the author's interpretation of the law. That's why there are courts and appeals etc..


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

bear1 said:


> I think some of the responses here a somewhat disingenuous.


Hmm. _disingenuous = lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere: _

Which of these do you have in mind Bear1 :?:

_2 Insurance-an insurance company taking your money and issuing a certificate each year is no guarantee they will pay out in the case of an accident. After all they do not know whether your van is roadworthy, but soon will when they examine it after an accident, and if they do and it's not, they'll wriggle more than a wriggly worm thing on a fishing hook. _

The point is that the policy has been renewed and is in force. The certificate confirms compliance with the compulsory insurance regulations. It is a condition of the contract that the vehicle is maintained in a roadworthy condition. This is why it is important to have the van checked at a garage

Presumably Bear1 you do not venture on to the roads in case your insurers "wriggle more than a wriggly worm thing on a fishing hook." #-o


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

thieawin said:


> !!!!!


Is this meant to be a constructive comment? :?


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Waggy, no, it is a valid comment on the last line by rft which I have quoted. Does rft work for an insurer or was he being disingenuous?

As for the answers, yes we have had some by ways, mainly because some posters did not read and understand the question and the facts given to them, as they were not fully and explicitly stated, so partly because of poor question.

Facts, from original post, some have to be deduced as they were not explicitly stated

Van in Spain for 4 years, it is insured, it has no MOT or Road tax. Owner proposes driving it through Spain, France and Belgium to Zeebrugge so as to get on boat to Rosyth in Scotland on 19th where he has already booked an MOT appointment 2 hours after disembarkation on 20th. Owner worried he will not be let on ferry.

well, he will be on his way now, if he is going. Zeebrugge is a long haul. (it has to be Zeebrugge as thats the only port with a fery link to Rosyth. He has to be sailing to Rosyth becuase it is the only port with a continental link and he is having the MOT there 2 hours after disembarcation, there is no other port which would allow disembarcation and travel of only 2 hours for the MOT.). He has insurance. It isn't invalidated by lack of MOT or Road fund, but may be if he does not have the vehicle in roadworthy condition. He will thus be driving in 3 countries illegally. Spain, no Road fund and no MOT, Fance ditto, Belgium ditto, as a bare minimum. If the vehicle is faulty there may be other problems. He must have a full and proper service.

He is unlikely to be stopped unless he has an accident. If he does the police everywhere will throw the book. If he doesn't then he has done all the right things here at home in Scotland.

I see he has not visited since 14th so has possibly not had benefit of our combined mis readings and (un) helpful suggestions. I think I gave the definitive answer in full in my first post on the subject.


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi all, JUST what is the fine for no mot?
Is it just a fine? or a fine and points?
where is ASPRN ? :lol: 
terry
years ago you got endorsments for bald tyres etc but no mot was not a endorsable offence


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

No tax and no MOT are both no endorsement, no PP max fine £1,000 in UK

No idea what they are in Spain, France or Belgium

With no UK MOT he is in breach of the requirement to be in possession of the equivalent in Spain, France or Belgium, the onus will be on him to produce, not on the foreign plods to track down


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

thieawin said:


> As for the answers, yes we have had some by ways, mainly because some posters did not read and understand the question and the facts given to them, as they were not fully and explicitly stated, so partly because of poor question.
> 
> Facts, from original post, some have to be deduced as they were not explicitly stated
> 
> ...


I defer to your precise use of language. A very fair assessment.

"Waggy, no, it is a valid comment on the last line by rft which I have quoted. Does rft work for an insurer or was he being disingenuous?"

I will resist the temptation to respond and hijack this thread as cheap shots about insurers are not helpful to the OP.

BTW, talking of unsavoury professions how is the legal business in the NW these days? 8O


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

bear1 said:


> I think some of the responses here a somewhat disingenuous.


If mine was, then you've reiterated what I said early on, almost word-for-word. 

Dougie.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

maddie said:


> Hi all, JUST what is the fine for no mot? Is it just a fine? or a fine and points? where is ASPRN ? :lol:


He's >> here <<.

What's all the fuss about?

Dougie.


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## 102731 (Jan 30, 2007)

DISINGENUOUS - _withholding or not taking in to account known information._
_rottytara_ was obviously distressed and only asked a question about something he had been told, ie would he be allowed on to the ferry? However, any one with a little thought could have realised(as some did), that there were more important issues relating to driving from his base in Spain to the UK. Such as no tax (an offence) and no MOT (also an offence) hence I endeavoured to point these out to _rottytara_ whilst others either ignored these items ("not taking account of known information") or proffered advice re insurance, registering in Spain or suggesting that the Spanish/French police will shrug and say, "carry on my old friend, such matters are less important than the butt of my Disque Bleu", rather than impound his vehicle!


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## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

Well Bear1, I don't know where your dictionary came from but I will accept that your comment was not intended to be as offensive as it appeared.

Whilst not specifically mentioned by the original poster, it had been suggested in other posts that insurance cover might be defective. I make no apology for attempting to clarify this as driving without insurance is a far more serious matter than no tax/MOT.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)




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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, he should be in or approaching Zeebrugge at present waiting to set off later on.

He hasn't visited since his first post on 14th, so not really to bothered by the look of it.


Send up?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

thieawin said:


> Well, he should be in or approaching Zeebrugge at present waiting to set off later on.
> 
> He hasn't visited since his first post on 14th, so not really to bothered by the look of it.
> 
> Send up?


Or discourteous?

Hasn't forked out his tenner, and has made only the one post :!: :!:

On second thoughts I think Thieawin may be correct. :evil:


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

asprn said:


> maddie said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, JUST what is the fine for no mot? Is it just a fine? or a fine and points? where is ASPRN ? :lol:
> ...


Hi Dougie,I had seen that :wink: just wondered what it was in GB?
fine hurt's a little, but points hurt a lot more :lol: both even more :lol: 
terry


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## OldGitRay (Sep 2, 2007)

For what it is worth. 

About 11 years ago I wrote off a car (not my fault) that had run out of MOT (my fault - but too late to prosecute me now). 

Anyway when I claimed on the fully comp insurance they asked for my MOT and of course it had run out about two weeks prior. 

They initially started to make non payment noises until I pointed out one of the conditions on the schedule/certificate that stated the vehicle had to be "Roadworthy". Nothing was written about a valid MOT. 

As I could produce receipts for parts that I had replaced in the previous few weeks they paid out quite happily as they agreed that I had kept it roadworthy.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

maddie said:


> I had seen that :wink: just wondered what it was in GB?


Why - thinking of chancing it? :roll:

I've seen fines of between £30 & £70 for no MoT, and as you say, the offence is non-endorsable (strangely, I think).

Dougie.


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## 94415 (May 1, 2005)

While we're on the subject of MOTs, does anyone know why we don't get a reminder when it's due for renewal in the way we do for 'Road Tax' and Insurance?
You'd think it would be a simple thing for the relevant agency to do.
I know people will talk about writing reminders in diaries etc but it would save a lot of hassle for some folks!


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

TheRallier said:


> While we're on the subject of MOTs, does anyone know why we don't get a reminder when it's due for renewal in the way we do for 'Road Tax' and Insurance?


Yes - cost. You and I would have to pay for it.

Dougie.


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## adbe (May 1, 2005)

I still hope we find out if he made the Saturday Mot!


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

asprn said:


> TheRallier said:
> 
> 
> > While we're on the subject of MOTs, does anyone know why we don't get a reminder when it's due for renewal in the way we do for 'Road Tax' and Insurance?
> ...


Or is it the fact they have lost the data base 8O

Alan H


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

asprn said:


> maddie said:
> 
> 
> > I had seen that :wink: just wondered what it was in GB?
> ...


 :lol: no , I remember thinking years ago it was strange(endorsments) & just wondered if it had changed:lol: :lol: 
terry


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

adbe said:


> I still hope we find out if he made the Saturday Mot!


actually Sunday = 20th


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## 94415 (May 1, 2005)

asprn said:


> Yes - cost. You and I would have to pay for it.
> 
> Dougie.


As if we don't pay enough already!! :x 
I'd be willing to pay an extra quid, just so I didn't forget!


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