# Need gas assistance!



## Cordyline (Dec 21, 2007)

Hello, 

Been an interested reader of the forums but now I have a problem I can't find posted on here already....and everyone's gone home for Christmas! Don't they know some of us are trying to escape the country?! 

This week we had refillable LPG bottles fitted in our Sprinter which is a Ruddocks racehome conversion. The gas is working because the hobs and oven work fine. But the Propex blown air heating and Truma water heater will not work despite trying, resting, trying again. The flashing light on the Propex indicates flame failure so it seems as though the gas isn't getting to the appliance or isn't sufficient. 

Can anyone advise? I've checked with Ruddocks and there is no separate tap for gas to these appliances, battery charge is fine, in fact it's hooked up right now. 

We're hoping to head for the Alps by Jan 1st but won't be going if we have no heat! 

Thanks in anticipation....


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

hi 

All I can suggest is to check the regulator, is it a lower pressure than the one it replaced.. ?


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## Cordyline (Dec 21, 2007)

It's running at 30mbar, which is standard for LPG apparently. The Propex manual says 37 is best but it will run at 30. I'm hoping regulator pressure isn't the issue as we've spent the cash on the installation now! Don't fancy replacing heating and water heater.

Thanks for your suggestion


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*Gas prob*

You have got propane and not butano , daft Question . Iknow. or is it just an air blockage.TURN gas off use a bike pump to blow through line?


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi;

We had a similar problem, our truma boiler wouldn't light on gas but all other applinces appeared to work ok. On ours the flame on the hob or oven would drop slightly when trying to light the boiler.
It turned out to be a faulty Truma regulator .

pete


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

IF the Propex and Truma water heater both worked OK before you had refillables fitted, and IF you are absolutely certain you don't have a manifold of gas taps for the appliances, then the regulator is all I can think of, too, on the basis that a simultaneous appliance failure is so unlikely.

I'm not sure how the appliances fire up - can you hold any gas tap/button in manually, suppressing the flame failure valve, to check by smell that gas is getting through. Beware, obviously!

Dave


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## Cordyline (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks for your suggestions. We will try the one above today when the Christmas shopping is out of the way. Will it never end???

The good news is that the water heating is working now so I guess there's not a fundamental problem with the refillable system. I went back to the instruction manual and followed them to the letter this time including taking off the vent cover outside. Quite exciting having hot water but can't work out how it'll save us from hypothermia in the Alps.

Once we've checked the gas is getting to the heating it's going to be a wait until Propex and the van's seller are back in action after Christmas.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Cordyline,

This may...or may not be relevant to your situation, but here goes anyway.

A few years ago, in our caravan, we had a problem with gas pressure to the grill under the hob. It was taking about 10 minutes to cook a slice of toast. All other gas appliances worked perfectly.

Having spoken to a dealer on the phone, his suggestion was to let them disconnect and remove the hob to investigate.
Whilst pondering over his suggestion, I had an idea. I disconnected the regulator from the rubber gas hose, and using an adaptor for a keyboard vacuuming kit, I connected a vacuum cleaner, and turned it on. I then opened the gas control valve for each burner in turn, including the grill.
Satisfied that air was being sucked in through the gas ports, I then turned each valve off in turn finishing with grill.

I reconnected the regulator and turned the gas on. The grill was lit, and with a huge difference in the lenght of flame, I cooked a piece of toast in.......3 minutes.

Feeling chuffed to bits, I phoned the dealer and explained my findings. He could only offer the explanation, that a drop of grease from the rear of the gas control may have become dislodged, and dropped into the gas line.

I have had occassion before, to clear fuel lines in a similar manner, (*without the aid of the vacuum cleaner, I hasten to add*). :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, Cordyline, almost exactly the same experience hit us yesterday.

We have a new Hymer Van with the 30mb regulator.

For six months we have used a 13kg Calor propane bottle.

Ten days ago I fitted a Gaslow refillable system.

We went off for an intended couple of nights wild-camping here in Wales starting on Boxing Day morning.

We managed just the one night! 

Why?

Because we could not get the Truma hot water and blown air heating to work.

The Truma boiler would try to start, several times and then the red fault light would appear.

We noticed also that if we (she!) was using the gas ring the flame would dip noticeably every time the boiler tried to fire.

Also, if a second ring was ignited the flame from both of them would diminish way beyond their previous size.

I experimented a bit with the system.

I swapped the feed over to the second (smaller) Gaslow bottle - no change.

I disconnected the feed into the regulator, pointed the hose out through the door and turned on the gas supply at the bottle - plenty of gas!

The pressure gauge on the bottle end of the hose indicated sufficient pressure and also that there was no leakage in the system.

I have made my diagnosis - the Truma 30mb bulkhead-mounted regulator is faulty!

I do not suspect the Gaslow system.

I did notice when fitting it as I disconnected the rubber supply hose that there was some green gunge on one of the connectors of the original installation.

Could this be the stuff that has (allegedly) caused the demise of so many of these regulators?

I shall purchase and fit a new regulator as soon as business restarts after the holidays.

Watch this space!


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## fatbast (Dec 5, 2007)

have had precisely the same problems in two successive m/homes :x :replacement of onboard regulator seems to be the only fix. evidently they are easily blocked due to routing/reg faults/lack of use etc...affects newish i.e post '05 m/homes. nobody has 'taken the blame' for these failures as yet. :roll:


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

Incidentally, I am all the more surprised at the regulator failure because the regulator is mounted horizontally, above the level of the bottles and the hose approaches it from below.


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## 107166 (Sep 22, 2007)

*Gas Problem*

Hi
I've just had a problem while in Spain. When I turned on the boiler and ahob ring the gas cut out. As this is a Secumotion system it was possible to reset with the button on the regulator. After a couple of days however the whole thing failed. 
I spoke to Truma in Germany and they addmitted they had a problem with a few of these regulators.
I found a replacment, now fitted and all OK.
Truma were really helpful and phoned me back within a few minutes. 
This system has a sensor built in and will only let a preset amount of gas through, when something goes wrong it thinks there is a leak and cuts out.
David


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I have just removed the Truma regulator.

The fixed piping measures 10mm outside diameter and 8mm inside diameter.

So, is that 10mm pipe or 8mm pipe?!!

I need to know because there are different regulators for the two sizes of pipe.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Pippin, that is a 10mm regulator,Steve


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## Cordyline (Dec 21, 2007)

*Good news and bad*

An update and another request for advice!

We took the van to Southampton to the heating manufacturers, Propex. (Fortunately we only live 30 miles away). They were really helpful - giving us guidance on removing the unit as they're not covered to do that and looking at it straight away.

The good news is that it worked first time on the factory bench. As we're now running refillable LPG bottles at standard 30 mbar they installed a larger jet to compensate to some degree.

On reinstalling the unit it worked second time which was great news. However, it has now cut out twice, giving the all-too-familiar two flashes indicating low gas pressure. I think it's about 7 degrees outside right now so pressure will be even less when we get to the French Alps.

Is there any way of increasing the pressure to the one appliance? Ideally some kind of booster regulator that can be placed in-line?! Any suggestions gratefully received.

Lucy


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Good news and bad*



Cordyline said:


> Is there any way of increasing the pressure to the one appliance? Ideally some kind of booster regulator that can be placed in-line?! Any suggestions gratefully received.
> 
> Lucy


Hi Lucy 
Sorry to hear your problem hasn't been fully resolved.. there is no way of boosting the pressure, there must be an underlying problem with the gas supply to the heater, either a faulty regulator, a partially blocked pipe or a fault at the valve on the gas manifold, I can only suggest having the system checked by a dealer including a pressure check at the heater.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

New Truma regulator fitted this morning.

Full gas pressure.

Gas rings, refrigerator and Trumatic water/air heating all working together.

Problem solved!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

As most posters predicted would be the most likely source of the problem. Well done, MHF


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## Cordyline (Dec 21, 2007)

*Sorted...*

We finally got to the bottom of the problem. As advised the pressure simply wasn't enough. Thanks to Steve at Essanjay in Poole making a phone call to Gaslow we found out that the refillable cylinders can run with no problems on 37 mbar. So he changed the regulator over and we have heat!

All good and we were able to depart for our stint in the Alps. But it turns out even propane can struggle at these temperatures and the heating still cuts out now and then or sometimes doesn't even light at all! Thank god for Electric radiators (when we're not free-camping) and thermal underwear!

Next step will be to lag the bottle a little to try to preserve a little heat. Think we'll survive though.

Thanks for all the advise.


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## sergeant (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Cordyline, DO NOT lag the bottle. LPG needs to draw latent heat from outside the bottle for the chemical reaction to occur where the liquid turns to vapour & wrapping the bottle slows the process, Steve


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Lucy;



> Snipped...... But it turns out even propane can struggle at these temperatures and the heating still cuts out now and then or sometimes doesn't even light at all! Thank god for Electric radiators (when we're not free-camping) and thermal underwear!
> 
> Next step will be to lag the bottle a little to try to preserve a little heat. Think we'll survive though.


Unlike butane, propane will work with no problems in alpine conditions, even down to the low minus, so I don't think its the propane thats the problem.
Did you refill your gaslows in France? If so, the propane/butane ratio at service stations can be as low as 35/65 in France.

Subject to confirmation from one of the experts, lagging the gas bottle won't help. You would need to warm the bottle by other means (maybe introduce heat to the gas locker?) to be able to burn off the butane element if that is actually the problem.

_late edit, there you go, sergeant has confirmed my laymans opinion about lagging while I was typing_

pete


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Can I suggest that the information about lagging bottles is made into a sticky.considering that it is dangerous to do so.

cabby


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Not dangerous cabby just self defeating.


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