# Parking at Home



## 124409 (Jun 8, 2009)

Hi, new to the forum and about to be a new motorhome owner for the first time when my Autotrail is delivered in July. As a complete novice I have a lot to learn but have already hit on a potential stumbling block. The question I guess every new owner comes up against is 'where do I park it? ' Well my intention is to park it at home subject to some modification to the drive. However to keep a long story short one of my neighbours has raised an objection and said I should check my deed covenants relating to the house. I have and there is no mention of motorhomes - however there is a covenant restricting the parking of Caravans and Boats. I spoke to my solicitor who said that whilst the language specifically does not mention motorhomes that the covenant on caravans is probably intended to cover them and if my neighbour chose to sue me a judge might find in his favour. However, my dealership says they have come across a number of these cases and in their experience the owner has always won (they have no axe to grind as they already have my deposit).

Sorry for the waffle but I would be interested if anyone else (in the UK) has come up against this and what the outcome was. If there is an existing thread on the subject please point me at it. Thanks


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

Can only comment as a long serving local councillor who has had many such issues to deal with...
1. Try and treat with your neighbour - always the best way
2. Very few will actually go to law because it is an expensive thing to do
3. You can apply for the covenant to be lifted. There is a pretty high success rate as these covenants are often put in place by the developers solely for the purpose of keeping the unsold houses looking their best. Once the last one has been sold, they have no further interest in the covenant.

My advice would be to try these in the order here. Take (2) only as far as it looking as if the neighbour is getting the cheque book out; then cease parking at home while going for option (3).

Hope that helps
Patrick


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Hi we had a similiar problem..........anyway to cut a long story short, we phoned the original builder ref the covenant and they were not interested as it was over 10 years old and the original builder was long gone from where we live.

We contacted the council and police etc and again no one interested, the neighbour said we had a house on wheels, and that he would see us in court (even though he originally said he had no objection before we bought it) anyway in the end we told him it was a PLG taxed and tested vehicle...........this was over a year ago, I think this is the difference between a caravan etc as the MH is a vehicle.

Don't get me wrong if I thought we were causing him a problem etc I would be more than happy to talk and come to a compromise, but he was so unreasonable at the time that we were quite happy to leave the MH where it is.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I had similar problems with neighbour.
Our deeds had a covenant that lasted for 10 years.
As your vehicle, not a caravan or boat is taxed tested and insured you can park it on the road.

This subject has been covered at length in previous posts.

You must try to stay friendly with this jealous neighbour.

Have you got an awfull leyllandi hedge that can screen the mh, or is there space to grow one.
Patricks sugestions are the route to go really

Dave P


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## 124409 (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks for the responses so far and the sound advice. As for trying to appease the neighbour, well I do try hard with neighbours - honestly - but I cannot abide when they think they have a right to tell you what to do on/with your own property. 

Its not as if I am intending to park an old rust bucket - and that the thing, he has objected without even seeing it ! Also to Dave's point, the intended parking place is alongside the garage so 3/4 of the MH will be blocked from his view anyway !!! Again, I will try the nice way but I have already had a bet with my son that I will get a letter from his solicitor - he is that type I am afraid...


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## billyfreda (Dec 1, 2008)

*motorhome parking on drive*

On my drive i have a RV, 2 cars and a horselorry all are taxed, insured and legal, there is nothing in our deeds that prevent the parking of such vehicules. If i were you i would park the mororhome on your drive but ensure that it does not obscure thier view or restrict thier access. Alternativly, invite them to go away for the weekend with you, they may enjoy it and decide to buy one also
billyfreda


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

you say (my intention is to park it at home subject to some modification to the drive) how much of a mod ? if you intend to path or concrete over a large area of grass you will need planning 
chapter


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## chrisndeb (Feb 7, 2007)

Hi Parish

I understand that a covenant is with the builder if the builder is no longer around or trading then nor is the covenant, But I maybe wrong. 

We had major problems with our neighbour but we dont have a covenant so he had no case, and we talk now. 

Although I know hes not happy with our MH on our drive.

Ive never heard of having to get planning to lay a drive, again I maybe wrong.

Good Luck

Chris


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Drive*



chrisndeb said:


> Hi Parish
> 
> I understand that a covenant is with the builder if the builder is no longer around or trading then nor is the covenant, But I maybe wrong.
> 
> ...


Hello, yes new laws require planning for driveways due to flood problems (more drives = less grass = less places for water to drain).

Trev.


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## paulmold (Apr 2, 2009)

Since the problems of major flooding affecting large areas of the country and one of the reasons for this is the fact that so many people have concreted over their gardens and therefore there is reduced areas for rainfall to drain away, you do have to get planning permission to get rid of grassed areas though I don't know if this only applies above a certain area. Check with your council.


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

here are the new regs see here 
chapter


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

no plans/planning needed driveway


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I'd suggest you pay your tenner to subscribe to MHF Parish, then you will have access to the search facility and can peruse the many posts about exactly this problem from a number of folk in your position.

Dave


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

First of all welcome. It is a shame that you are experiencing such a problem before you have even taken delivery of your new acquisition.
Legally, if you are having your kerb lowered, you will need to involve the local council. The covenant is enforceable. A restrictive covenant placed on deeds, runs for the lifetime of the property and beyond. Even if the Builder has gone, the covenant is still enforceable. You could try and purchase a restrictive covenant insurance policy, however I am not sure if an insurance company would cover you, bearing in mind the intending/pending action by your neighbour. One significate point is, if you have a mortgage over your property, a breach in a restrictive covenant could seriously jeopardise your mortgage provider. However, having said that, a MH is not a permanent fixture, so worst case scenario is that you would have to move it. I would suggest that you take legal advice, or search the internet on "restrictive covenants".


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## chapter (May 1, 2005)

karlb read the link any thing that is not porous ie concrete,brick pavers,tarmac most types and anything over 5 sqm (about the size of a transit ) also if the fall is into the road you will need planning 
i'm dealing with this week in and week out 
chapter


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## thePassants (Feb 9, 2009)

Hello,

Have you considered storage; to keep the peace, and to to give yourself more space too?

We pay about £40 per month for secure parking, a few miles away.

There are other benefits too: the absence of a conspicuous MH that's usually there is a good indication you're away!


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## Blueflag (May 16, 2007)

We too had a problem with a petty minded neighbour. He was OK with our previous motorhome (smaller) which was a fixture when he moved in about 5 years ago. As soon as our 7 metre jobbie arrived he got all upset. Fact is, in our case it is too big for more than a week or two on the drive as I can't get my 2 wheeled toys past it so we have it in storage now. Quite amusing how upset he got. Still, it stopped him knocking every 5 minutes to borrow stuff, result!


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

The bottom line is it is a vehicle not a caravan or boat which cannot move without a towing vehicle. For instance, you could use the M/H as your main mode of transport, however this does not get you over the neighbour problem. Have you tried dialogue? 

Graham


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Storage*



thePassants said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have you considered storage; to keep the peace, and to to give yourself more space too?
> 
> ...


£40 a month x 12 = £480
£480 x ...............................

Rather a lot of money is that not?

Indeed the cheapest and nearest storage to me 1/2 a mile away is £22.25 a week. Next nearest, 3 miles away is £15 a week. + Fees if of £70 for 24 hour access That is £850 a year to store outside, not under cover.

We already pay nearly £2000.00 a year in council TAX. Why should I pay more for Storage?

At the moment I cannot get our newer, longer motorhome to our drive (it will fit on it, it is access that is being restricted). As I cannot get it on our drive but that also means that I cannot get it near the house because that will block other peoples drives.

As I cannot get it near the house, we cannot load it, wash it maintain it and so on.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

Jennifer said:


> First of all welcome. It is a shame that you are experiencing such a problem before you have even taken delivery of your new acquisition.
> Legally, if you are having your kerb lowered, you will need to involve the local council. The covenant is enforceable. A restrictive covenant placed on deeds, runs for the lifetime of the property and beyond. Even if the Builder has gone, the covenant is still enforceable. You could try and purchase a restrictive covenant insurance policy, however I am not sure if an insurance company would cover you, bearing in mind the intending/pending action by your neighbour. One significate point is, if you have a mortgage over your property, a breach in a restrictive covenant could seriously jeopardise your mortgage provider. However, having said that, a MH is not a permanent fixture, so worst case scenario is that you would have to move it. I would suggest that you take legal advice, or search the internet on "restrictive covenants".


Hi the thing is though 'who' enforces the covenant if the original builder isn't interested, and also as I and others have said a MH is a taxed vehicle etc on our tax disc the vehicle is a PLG..........I think a touring caravan would be a different issue ie as on our covenant a house on wheels, or that probably could also mean a normal caravan I guess not that we would get one of our drive though :wink:

My best friend lives just up the road from us and they altered their back garden to accomadate their MH, this did involve planning as they had to drop the kerb, but the council were very helpful and had no objection to the work that they did...............apparently a couple of neighbours complained after the work was done, but as she had done things properly there was nothing that they could do, the stupid thing was the MH can hardly be seen by them as it is behind a fence :roll: but then again this particular pair would complain if the sky was blue :roll:

As a matter of interest there was a recent topic on this
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-66011-previous.html


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## Blueflag (May 16, 2007)

Teemyob, I see you are in Cheshire, I store my van near Lymm and it's only £180 per year. If you want, pm me and I'll pass on the details.
Cheers,
Mike


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## 124409 (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the latest responses. To deal with the side debate of planning, sorry for giving the impression I was creating a new drive. Its an existing part of my drive area (see attached) and all I am intending to do is widen it by 0.5m to provide enough width to clear the soffit of the garage roof. Thanks for the warnings but I am pretty sure I do not need permission to shorten the adjacent shrub bed and increase the width by 0.5m.....perhaps I should ask the neighbour...sorry could not resist that.

I have looked into storage but so far nothing near enough to me but as somebody said, why if I've got the room would I shell out more money to park the MH in a muddy field where it could be tampered with. I would need a lot of convincing on the security side of this option vs parking it begind the electronic gates and fence that encloses our little estate. The Pessants raise a good point regarding signalling you are away but our 2 grown up kids still live at home (sound familiar...?) so no real concerns there. 

I have already consulted my solicitor as per the original post and the key is the definition of a 'caravan' and whether a judge would choose to interpret the covenant to mean 'caravan=motorhome'... If there happens to be any MH owning judges out there I would love to hear from them.

As for dialogue with my nasally challenged neighbour...well apart from a rather heated discussion yesterday when I forced him to admit he had a problem, no. I am watching and waiting to see what he does next. By the way, as I said we live in a small gated development of five houses and I have written to the other 3 neighbours - all of whom will have a greater view of the MH than the one complaining - and so far no complaints and a positive 'go ahead its none of our business' from one of them.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Does the covenant state that you cannot park a van on your property?
If not ,I feel that is part of the battle won.
After the trouble I had with a neighbour we found out the covenent stated that we could not park a caravan protruding in front of the building line.
No such covennents where we are now. 1940s bungalow with a third of an acre.


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

parish said:


> Sorry for the waffle but I would be interested if anyone else (in the UK) has come up against this and what the outcome was. If there is an existing thread on the subject please point me at it. Thanks


Hi Parish

We are in the process of moving and have always been able to park our mh on our own property without any problems, or covenants.

Due to this site I was very aware of the problems people can have, and as we were downsizing, knew this would be a real problem.

Estate Agents don't think it a problem, Developer's have emailed me and told me that it would not be a problem for them, they would never take it to court, so why do they put it in there.... or yes I know why, but surely they could put a life to it, 2 years or 5 or something...as then it would automatically lapse.

We have walked from about 5 properties we were seriously interested in due to the covenant, as I don't want the hassle in the future, and your present neighbours may be OK, or the next ones may not.

We have been lucky in finding a new property, and due to the climate on housing at the moment, the Developer is building us an extra large and extra wide parking space specifically for the motorhome - if we sell that will not then be included in the deal - which is fair enough....but we still keep the original parking space and the garage with a space outside as well.

But do be careful

Carol


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

chapter said:


> karlb read the link any thing that is not porous ie concrete,brick pavers,tarmac most types and anything over 5 sqm (about the size of a transit ) also if the fall is into the road you will need planning
> i'm dealing with this week in and week out
> chapter


in the part i read it said no planning needed if a permeable surface is used it mentions tarmac and block pavers as permeable.


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## 124409 (Jun 8, 2009)

KarlB - no, there is no restriction on parking vans. However there is a clear statement that reads :

'.....not to use any parking space....otherwise than for the parking of private motor vehicles or vehicles.....'

The bit about Carvans and Boats is a seperate clause. I am hoping that the legal definition of the MH fits under 'Private Motor Vehicle' and not 'Caravan'...


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

parish said:


> KarlB - no, there is no restriction on parking vans. However there is a clear statement that reads :
> 
> '.....not to use any parking space....otherwise than for the parking of private motor vehicles or vehicles.....'
> 
> The bit about Carvans and Boats is a seperate clause. I am hoping that the legal definition of the MH fits under 'Private Motor Vehicle' and not 'Caravan'...


I would tell your neighbour that if he does try to have the clause enforced it will cost him the legal fees, because a motorhome is not a caravan. A caravan has no MOT or road tax and cannot be legally left on the road. You can also tell him if he did manage to have enforcement action taken on you, that you would then be forced to park on the road, which he can do nothing about.

I would also look at any other clauses that he may be breaching i.e. hedges, fences, satellite dishes etc.


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

parish said:


> KarlB - no, there is no restriction on parking vans. However there is a clear statement that reads :
> 
> '.....not to use any parking space....otherwise than for the parking of private motor vehicles or vehicles.....'
> 
> The bit about Carvans and Boats is a seperate clause. I am hoping that the legal definition of the MH fits under 'Private Motor Vehicle' and not 'Caravan'...


Hi I can't see why it shouldn't as the tax disc should confirm that.


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## billyfreda (Dec 1, 2008)

*Parking*

Parish, as i stated earlier. If its taxed, and its insured then its legal.
PARK IT ON YOUR DRIVE.
billyfreda


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Just one point, all the houses where you live and where the covenant applies have to be treated the same, you cannot be singled out to be enforced against, therefore if any one else has a caravan or motorhome at their property you will have a good defence.


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