# Let's be honest



## 98585

How many of you guys and girls bought an RV because you fell in love with the slides, the full size shower, washing machine, etc. and then regretted it because of the limiting factors bought on by width and length that enables these items to be present. And then did you find that after pushing it a 1000 miles at 10 to the gallon you then spent all your time sat outside it, and then only on the larger noisier more commercial sites.

Lets be honest. If you think you made a mistake, say so, anyone can make a mistake, that's why they put rubbers on the end of pencils. I'm near to buying and I like learning from others/your experiences it could save me a lot of pain and dough or get me over the inertia that I am feeling.

Thanks in anticipation


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## 101411

Owned 3 RVs of different sizes and never regretted it for 1 minute. I would NEVER CONSIDER BUYING a Euro m/h. They are too small. ill equipped, too expensive, too underpowered with pathetic payloads and no toys!!!

No one and I mean no one does it like the Yanks. Yes they use a lot of fuel, yes they are big and finding sites for the really big ones needs a bit of planning but the positives outweigh the negitives by 100-1

Dazzer


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## 97993

Their worth the money just to park on the drive and admire, Honest!!!
Geo


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## 98064

Bought ours on a whim, it'll be RV's all the way for us more than likely, though old we love our Dodge and can't see changing for some years any way. 
Re access, we are sencible but also only 22ft and I would err to around that length in future, well, maybe up to 28 ft, mmmm.

Did see a very nice Pheonix Cruser (never could spell that word) on an American site, 23 ft, end bed and sofa slide, nice!! :roll: 

Si


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## 98064

Oh yeah, RV = V8's (OK some 10's) but V8's, best noise in the world even the deisels!


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## eddievanbitz

Had eleven of 'em We tried to go back to Europeans vans twice, neither attempt lasted more than a few months. 

However, motorhomes are like religion, what I believe is right doesn't make it so. I just happen to like metal doors and frames with proper locks and no plastic in sight, proper glass double glazing, big fridge freezers, Ice makers, effective A/C, plug holes that work!, big full size double beds that you dial your comfort number into and each side adjusts, domestic quality furniture to sit on, large holding , waste and water tanks and the fact that I can set the cruise at 75 MPH and go up hills and down dales effortlessly.

If your undecided, buy one!


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## Snelly

I made a mistake when I bought mine. I didn't realise I couldn't drive it on my license. But no worries, as the friendly people at the DSA test centre will eventually tell me im good enough.

As for regrets, no regrets. I've been over to where its stored today to take some stuff ready for peterborough and I love it to bits. Its perfect for our large family and has so many proper home comforts. I dont even think about the fuel economy, the extra fuel is worth it.


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## 98585

Snelly said:


> I made a mistake when I bought mine. I didn't realise I couldn't drive it on my license. But no worries, as the friendly people at the DSA test centre will eventually tell me im good enough.
> 
> As for regrets, no regrets. I've been over to where its stored today to take some stuff ready for peterborough and I love it to bits. Its perfect for our large family and has so many proper home comforts. I dont even think about the fuel economy, the extra fuel is worth it.


Hi Snelly,
What are the rules then, l just looked at my licence the car and motorbike items are self explanatory but the bits with the lorry pictures area a little confusing

Group C and CE from <01-04-91 to 04-12-07 What is this that expires this year?
Group C1E from 10-3-77 to day before my birthday 2028

What can I drive?


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## Snelly

Is it an old paper type licence?


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## 98585

no, its pink n plastic with a rather fetching photo on it


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## G2EWS

Hi Jimjam,

When I joined the MH set I had a Hobby 750 twin axle for a little while! Long story see my earlier threads.

When I bought the Winnie I was totally amazed at ..... well everything! Most of which has been mentioned above.

The one thing that does stick in my mind which I heard somewhere is that you upsize to an RV but very few people downsize to an European MH. Personally I think that says it all!

Regards

Chris


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## Snelly

How much is the max weight on your rv?

If its >7.5 Tons, your cat C covers you, but its due to expire!

Less than 7.5 Ton can be driven on C1


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## Pusser

It does seem that RV's are all that has been said so far and more. Nevertheless, even if I had the space, which I don't, and the money, which I don't, and the faith that I could drive 10 miles before hitting something with it, which I don't, and those 10 miles costing about £4 I thought this way. What do I need to be comfortable and relatively hassle free.

Well, I will have a comfy either single or double bed per my choice at the time and I will sleep on it no better than on a 24 foot matteress than on a 6 foot mattress. When I have a shower, I will get the same quantity at the same tempreature - I will be able to empty my cassette loo in black of the night without any one seeing me rather than driving up in front of an audience, opening sewerage drains and sticking a great big tube down and stand there while all the horrible noises and smells take place - When I sit down for a meal I have sufficient room for my plate and knife and fork - I can drive twice as far for the same money, make savings on toll booths in france over an RV and this applies to the tunnel I think too. Plus I could go on but the bottom line is have the RV's got more...Yes. Do I need more - No. That's the sensible bit.

This is the non sensible bit . But I wish I had the space, money and confidence to get one.


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## RAH

Realizing we are new and the odd ones out being Americans (thanks for the nice welcome guys!) we sometimes think about the flexibility of a Class B+. They are well built, luxurious and very manuverable.

I think a poster tagged "Dazzer" just bought one after downsizing.

It all comes down to what you are going to do with it. We've toured Europe three years ago with a 28' and found it big for some sites. Then we brought over our Monaco Windsor and found the places we went fine, we just gained some experience the first time around.

We now have a 45' tag we use in the States (next week we are there with it for a short break) and it drives better than the 40' Windsor.

I guess there is no set answer. Some stay put, some travel extensively, and some go down to Devon to real beauty, but small roads. To each their own.

P.S. Wanted to add: In the US, motorhomes are exempt in most states from having to possess a "lorry" license to drive them. We invested in taking the test just to have the knowledge behind us, which we encourage.


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## Snelly

Also, forgot to say, check your cat C and C+E isnt just provisional entitlement.


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## 98585

Trust Pusser to bring up toileting, but now he has. How long do you get in an average RV black tank before you have to up sticks and awnings to the MH service point, say for a family of 5 with minimal flushing?


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## 88741

RAH said:


> Realizing we are new and the odd ones out being Americans (and hoping this forum is not a "clic")


Rest assured no one on here is considered odd, not even me and I truly am :lol: Everyone is more than welcome and def no cliques allowed, or the wroth of the mods, which is an awesome sight will descend.

This is def one of those places where size,(of MH) colour, creed, religion, does not matter, just a very friendly place to swop info 8)


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## zaskar

jimjam said:


> Trust Pusser to bring up toileting, but now he has. How long do you get in an average RV black tank before you have to up sticks and awnings to the MH service point, say for a family of 5 with minimal flushing?


For a family of 5

4 days MAX (Black tank)

5-6 MAX (Grey)

We get a bit more but we're on 2 adults.
Moral = make sure you get either a roll tank or a macerator + piping.
Preferably the latter, so much easier & cleaner.


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## 98585

zaskar said:


> jimjam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trust Pusser to bring up toileting, but now he has. How long do you get in an average RV black tank before you have to up sticks and awnings to the MH service point, say for a family of 5 with minimal flushing?
> 
> 
> 
> For a family of 5
> 
> 4 days MAX (Black tank)
> 
> 5-6 MAX (Grey)
> 
> We get a bit more but we're on 2 adults.
> Moral = make sure you get either a roll tank or a macerator + piping.
> Preferably the latter, so much easier & cleaner.
Click to expand...

Grey water isnt so bad, but it must be a pain when the black tank is full. Is there like an emergency procedure where you can just bleed a few gallons into suitable container for disposal in a regular WC. Or do you just use the regular WC until you find a proper dump.


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## johng1974

there's the question Jimjam

everyone will have a different way of doing that..

a small pipe from the black to a 25-50 litre roll tank where all pipework fits well would be the way I would choose. so, yes i think you can just remove a bit now and again..

my black lasts me 2 months mainly solo, but I dont always use it all of the time i,e, i have altenatives..


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## Superk

With a macerator you can pump it anywhere up hill, down dale and in only a few minutes - we can pump 120 feet with the tubing we have. Alternatively you can dump into a roll-away container - we have a 40 litre one just in case. Alternatively there's the gravity option through a three-inch pipe when you have access to a proper dump. We can last 12 days - only two of us and on lite-diets, showering every day but not running the water the whole time - run, soap up, rinse etc.

So there are lots of choices and you don't have to join the cassette parade every morning. I also notice that European van owners tend to use the site showers because of the smaller water and waste tanks - our water tank is 55 gallons and each of the black and grey tanks 35 gallons.


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## G2EWS

Depends on the size of the tank of course.

Our Winnie has

100 gallon fresh water
55 gallon black
55 gallon grey

We use toilets, shower, sinks a lot and I feel the need to macerate with extended pipe very soon!

Regards

Chris


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## johng1974

although I have one of the oldest and cheapest and smallest rvs here, I do regret it slightly, only because I am a bit nervous to use it on the road, so I have brought an RV and its growing roots!

i need a convoy somewhere  help!..

also, because I live in it, if it ever broke down I would really struggle to get it back onto it's pitch (i,e, a major mechanical failure)

the other thing is, mine is SO old its hard to get 'house' spares.. my heating has broken and there seems no way at all of repair, i need a new furnace from US, which will cost about 15% the cost of the van 8O 

Saying all that, I cant wait to go away in it somewhere sometime..

John


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## eddievanbitz

Jim Jam

the loo is absolutely no problem. We have a 45 gallon black tank which when we are away is a doddle. Emptying is so simple with more and more sites and motorway services (coaches don't have porta potties) catering for drive over and dump, dumping.

Fiamma make a 45 -50 Litre tank that is easy to use, has wheels and costs about fifty quid or so, if you really worry that you will miss wheeling tank fulls of crap around the campsite 8O or you can pay twice that and get a Tote N Store from the states or ebay http://www.outdoorbits.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/5/products_id/171

So, the best of both worlds, either tank it and dump it, or (much better) drive over a drain, pull a lever and let 45 gallons of poo flush away and then open the grey (shower) water and let 45 gallons of nice soapy water flush everything away. Slide the pipe back into the locker, peel off your gloves and your done, simple and quickly!


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## johng1974

Eddie. sorry to hi-jack

did you ever get that vacancy filled?

just wondering if I am ever down in Galmington seeing mum, I could pop in and say hi?

John


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## 98064

Errrr, 'bleeding a bit' off the black tank sounds a very bad idea to me. When you try and close the valve what's the chance of, not, er, hitting 'something solid' 8O 

The rest is obvious/doesn't bear thinking about in the middle of a nice camp site.

I do believe the honerable Pusser may have something to share?????  

Si


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## kijana

Jim

I suppose most things in life are a compromise. The trick is to work out what you need, then what you want, then what you can afford, what you can & can't do without, how you're going to use it, and so on. . .

It is clear that motorhomes, as many things, are all things to all men. There is no 'right' choice, only a preference.

I think the replies so far to your post attest to the pleasures of RV owership, and nobody seems to feel that the cons outweigh the pros.

As fulltimers, we had some fairly firm criteria we did not wish to compromise.

Chief amongst these was a full size double bed with space around it for both of us to walk around. So either partner can get up in the night without disturbing the other.

Next was the level of equipment - we wanted home comforts, if this was to be our home. That means a decent size fidge & freezer; a proper shower; a separate toilet; good standard of kitchen & cooker.

We wanted aircon for summer and effective central heating for winter. We wanted the option to wildcamp, so needed large water & wastewater tanks, a proper generator, good size tank of propane, and so on.

Lastly, but very high on our list, was quite simply space. It may be ok to huddle in a tiny living space, and try to avoid treading on the dog or each other for a couple of weeks in Margate. It wouldn't be acceptable to us to live like that all the time. So we went for a large slideout, and what a difference that extra 36 sq.ft makes to our feeling of comfort.

We have two rooms - a wooden domestic door separates the bedroom from the lounge. So somewhere to sulk, or stay up listening to music, or reading, without forcing a reluctant partner to share your whim.


Downsides? Well yes, 10 mpg is not very clever. Though not in a different county from a 4WD towing a big caravan, I'm told. But how many miles per year are you going to do? What is the real difference in cost over a tiny overstressed Fiat engine pulling an overloaded chassis? And what price do you put on the effortless ease of driving a 6.8 litre whisper quiet 320hp V10 engine? It's a joy!

And no, we can't get into some campsites. But the more we use it, the fewer we find the limitations are. And how small do you need to be to guarantee you'll get into every site in the guidebook?

So you'll need to make your own choices, Jim. for ourselves, having the level of comfort, space, security and performance we do, at less than half the price of a top end Hymer - well, no contest.

Good luck in your choice.

Bruce


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## Snelly

Seen as were on the subject... we've been away in our rv about 4 or 5 times now and im suprised how quickly the black tank is emptied compared to the grey. It makes me think it isn't emptying properly?? Anyone else thought similar??

Also I have a macerator, but no idea how it works. Think it needs connecting to use and I can't be bothered, I just connect my pipe and dump away.


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## johng1974

Snelly.. mine is same, black is about 5 times quicker than grey ?


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## 98064

Our black and grey take about the same time to empty which makes sence as they look about the same size.
However, the black did appear to empty extremely quickly once which turned out it had blocked  Basically I went to fill through the loo with fresh to flush the tank and discovered still fairly full, though fortunatly additional water gave it the 'thrutch' necisary to clear it.


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## eddievanbitz

I'm no expert (hang on yes I am 8O ) The black tank has a 4" diameter pipe to the gate valve and the grey has a 2" diameter to the valve  

John, thanks for your interest but I think we have found the right guy

cheers

Eddie


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## johng1974

no worries Ed.. was more just thinking of popping in for a coffee and seeing the set up 

ok for work , snowed under!


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## 98064

> The black tank has a 4" diameter pipe to the gate valve and the grey has a 2" diameter to the valve


Ours is 3" on both, desn't make any odds I guess, just thought I'd mention it, variances in age/manufacturer I suppose.


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## zaskar

quote="Snelly"]Seen as were on the subject... we've been away in our rv about 4 or 5 times now and im suprised how quickly the black tank is emptied compared to the grey. It makes me think it isn't emptying properly?? Anyone else thought similar??

.[/quote]

Trying to put this as delicately as possible! 8O 8) The contents of the black tank are somewhat denser than the grey and thus will not flow as fast.
Something worth thinking about tho'.......when they cut the 3" (or 4") exit hole in the tank, they dont always bother to retrieve the "disc" before the pipe is fitted and years down the line, it can move and block the exit pipe.
this happened on my last Gulfstream and didn't it just have to be in the middle of a Caravan Club site as the warden was walking past!
Boy was I popular


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## asprn

We had an 8.2m Swift Kontiki 6-wheeler with a fixed bedroom for 5 years & thought there was nothing better in the whole wide world. We then decided to renew it, and put a deposit on a new Autotrail Cheyenne 840 which was a similar sort-of van, but much more 21st-century.

Whilst waiting to go & road-test the van (3-week wait), I was advised by old friends with an RV to look at RVs, due to interior width restrictions of Euro vans. I poo-pooed the idea, chiefly because of my preconceptions of prohibitive running costs and non-availability of parts. Once I looked in detail (for 4 consective days & nights......), I was gobsmacked; I was patently ignorant about all things RV, and it didn't take long to get some facts straight.

1) Running costs are around £90 extra per 1,000 miles compared to a Euro van
2) Spares/repairs/accessories are simply not an issue
3) The new Euro van was going to cost £50k. The RV which we actually bought was £37.5k (1999, 14,000 miles, utterly loaded & beautiful)

Your questions are perfectly valid, and it's good to see someone thinking about what they're doing. My tuppence-worth is that there is just no comparison, period. We have not encountered one single issue which gave us even the beginnings of a second thought.

Dougie.


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## rft

I've found this thread fascinating and I've learned alot - thanks! That £90 per 1000 miles certainly gave me pause for thought.

In February 2006 we bought a Burstner 747 which we ran for a year and thoroughly enjoyed. But I had not anticipated how much I needed to learn about motorhoming in general and the 747 specifically. It didn't take more than a few trips to learn as much as I think I needed to know but the thought of an RV still makes me apprehensive.

I'm assuming that because RVs are by their very nature much more complex than Euro MHs that there is much more to learn. Or is an RV like an American car, big, simple and understressed?

Is someone like me, who sits at a desk all day (although reasonable at diy and figuring simple problems out), going to get the hang of an RV as easily as a Euro MH?


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## 101411

Hi Robin

I think youve hit the nail on the head. "Big Simple & Understressed"

Just remember an RV does everything a Euro m/h does, it just does it better, with less effort, more space, more luxury and more home comforts.

Nuff said!!

Dazzer


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## asprn

I'm reasonably competent at DIY & mechanical stuff, but certainly no expert. I've found that there's so much more space to work in & on the van (not that it's needed "work"), that it feels much more like working in a domestic environment. That is also true of our first real trip away in March - we spent 4 weeks in Spain, and it did not feel like "camping", more like bringing a hotel with you. 

For example, I installed an additional 13A socket in the kitchen where there was a blanking plate - the mains wiring loom was nicely looped above the plate with about a spare metre of cable, so it was a doddle. So was fitting the missing shaver socket in the bathroom - exactly the same.

Dougie.


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## zaskar

rft said:


> ..................but the thought of an RV still makes me apprehensive.
> I'm assuming that because RVs are by their very nature much more complex than Euro MHs that there is much more to learn. Or is an RV like an American car, big, simple and understressed?
> Is someone like me, who sits at a desk all day (although reasonable at diy and figuring simple problems out), going to get the hang of an RV as easily as a Euro MH?


RV's are no more complex than your average Euro-Rig and in a lot of cases are a hell of a lot more simple. Yes, they're big and brash and flashy and all those things, but, they are fairly simple and nothing to panick about. Everything is just scaled up and a bit more heavy duty. American RV's and Euro-rig engines use injection electronics which are on a par with each other and far beyond your average DIY mechanics capabilities so TBH, there's no difference. On the interiors, where-as a lot of the Eurorigs are using fairly complicated "touch" sensors for gauges and system, the Yanks are only just getting up to speed in this area and tend to use a lot more simple and "solid" switch gear.

After 10 years and 3 Euro rigs, we bought our first RV and like you, were VERY nervous. I asked the dealer questions for nearly 6 months over numerous visits before I bought (and in this respect I must praise Ross Edwards and Simon Harper of Travelworld who were VERY free and helpfull with adise/tips).
Now on my second RV, there are very few jobs I wouldn't tackle myself, especially as being a fulltimer, it's inconvenient, to say the least, to have to return to dealerships to have problems sorted out.
I'm no DIY genious, my best skill is having served an engineering apprentisship and having helped my father service his black taxi's for years. this has given me the confidence to tackle jobs fair enough, but as far as skills go, RV's are nothing special and most jobs can be tackled/completed by an DIYer with a reasonable toolbox and a fist full of advise off here.
If you're _thinking_ of buying an RV..........dont........just DO IT
You wont be sorry


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## spykal

Hi Jimjam

You seem to be getting a lot of answers...it is a "hot" thread.. but are all of them addressing your original question I wonder :roll:

I have a titchy motorhome and to make matters worse it was made by a cottage industry in England...am I bovvered, am I bovvered, no way...

Would I like an RV ..*you bet I would*... but lack of that sort of space on the drive and my desire to find out what is at the end of all those small lanes that lead up mountains or down to the sea makes me happy with what I have at the moment...it does not mean that I don't drool when I look at the RVs at shows and when I get to visit RV owners vans.

What I do find a bit strange is ... and please anyone, shoot me down if you like...is why do I get the feeling sometimes in threads on here and elsewhere that RV owners sometimes seem ( to me anyway) to be trying to justiify the ownership of one.... come on , its a motorhome ...a gurt big motorhome ... all the better to travel in, all the better to sleep in and cook in and live in. It must be great owning one.......so please give over bulling them up all the time.... its just another motorhome :lol: Get and buy it :wink:

mike


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## asprn

spykal said:


> .......so please give over bulling them up all the time.... its just another motorhome :lol:


Mike,

A good point, well presented.  I've reflected on your point, and my answer to why I do this (and I agree I do) is because I've found myself apparently justifying (to no-one in particular and everyone in general) the perceved anti-social gas-guzzling carbon-footprint (so many hyphens 8O) element of owning my RV. I hadn't realised I felt a little guilty about it. I know that when you analyse it, there are many different ways of looking at this issue - and I'll be perfectly able to justify myself - but that's my honest (I hope) answer.

Dougie.


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## olley

Hi I didn't do any research, I just saw them at various shows and wanted one. Simple. (like me)

Olley


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## Pusser

Carbon footprint 8O Must be the biggest footprint in history  Certainly knocks the Yetti's footprint for six.


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## 94639

Lets be honest American RV's are truly awesome machines, I would love to have a look around inside one, I would love to experience driving one.
Can I afford to buy one Probably
Can I afford to run and maintain one Probably not
Would I like to own one Not in the UK, i feel the facilities and infrastructure available in the UK would severely restrict my intended useage for a motorhome, as like Spykal, I like to get to out of the way places.

However if the opportunity arose to go to the states and spend a bit of time driving from Chicago to L.A. along Route 66 in a gurt great Winnie I would be in heaven.


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## androidGB

The limiting factor that made me decide against an RV was that you could not have a permanently made up over cab bed.(unless someone knows otherwise)

With our current arrangement the grandchildren can either go in the overcab or the permanent fixed rear bed, and we can still use the lounge and then retire without having to make a bed up.

Obviously if it were just the two of us things would be much simpler


Andrew


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## johng1974

mine has 2 perm beds and only 24 foot... ?

John


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## G2EWS

My Itasca Suncruiser has a permanent Queen bed in the rear with a door that when closed means no one can hear each other!

Chris


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## LC1962

androidGB said:


> The limiting factor that made me decide against an RV was that you could not have a permanently made up over cab bed.(unless someone knows otherwise)
> 
> With our current arrangement the grandchildren can either go in the overcab or the permanent fixed rear bed, and we can still use the lounge and then retire without having to make a bed up.
> 
> Obviously if it were just the two of us things would be much simpler
> 
> Andrew


There's no reason why you can't leave the overcab bed made up in a C Class RV Andrew, just means you have to watch your head when you stand up from the front cab seats :wink:


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## 98452

I took on board in advance the site limitation issue but with 2 Great Danes had no option.

Been through a few new caravans and cars and lost a packet and now over the moon with my baby.

I think RVing n the UK is growing the dealers certainly are so more site will appear to accommodate us I hope.

Few CL I will miss but that's life.


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## MicknPat

We have yet to buy our RV but these are our reasons for choosing one.

British & European caravans and motor homes are ok for the occasional week end and fortnight in France but in order to keep them light they are constructed with very flimsy materials, where as the American RVs contain the sort of furnishings, equipment and space you have in a bricks & mortar house.

We intend to go full time in ours and want something that will last a few years not just a season or two.

Yes size and running cost may be a problem but I see an RV as our bricks & mortar on wheels which we can move when we want.


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## androidGB

Just to clarify what I meant.

I'd assumed that when we were discussing RV's in this context we were talking A Class 32-38Ft, well at least I was.

If I was seriously considering full timing, and there were just the 2 of us, I have no doubt an RV as described is the way we'd want to go.

As we often take our grandchildren and rarely stay longer than 14 days the Hymer suits us better.

If American RV's were equipped as decribed in my previous post I would have seriously considered one even though we have no intention to full time


Andrew


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## Pusser

G2EWS said:


> My Itasca Suncruiser has a permanent Queen bed in the rear with a door that when closed means no one can hear each other!
> 
> Chris


I would like one of those. Where does the missus sleep then.


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## johng1974

understood Andrew I have got my coat 

but, all, there must be a few 32+ that had 2 ready made beds... ?

the Allegro I looked at did.,, although I think only 29' and 1991- it was a drop down tho..


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## RAH

A good comparison may be a hotel-on-wheels vs. a small vacation home-on-wheels. We have taken a few tours of Europe, the first being in a large Hymer. We could fit in all campgrounds and blended in quite well. We were only a tad uncomfortable driving along the cliff side of the Garde Lake in Italy, and it would be hard for the two us to reside with the Hymer for longer than a month or two. Still, it was a great coach for the task.

Along the way, we met a few German Concorde Chrisma's and Phoenix's, but they had to camp in the overflow lots because of their size. These were very nice looking buses, but still came with the small black tank canister. More of an upscale hotel-on-wheels and we doubt the owners resided more than a few weeks in these, just because of their lifestyle.

Then one season we brought over our Monaco Windsor and toured. Luckily we had some experience in finding campgrounds where we could fit, although there were many challenges along the way -- one being dump sites and the other being self-conscious of the generator noise. The American Class A feels more of a small home to us, but I am sure it is all relative to the person.

This season we are touring in yet another Class A, but are staying mostly along the motorsport circuit where other American Class A's can be found. There will be yet another set of challenges, but I doubt nothing that cannot be overcome with some help. Hence our topic about temp power conversion on the forum. It's all relative to the individual and as the French say, different, not better.


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## 100734

My only regret was downsizing to a 30ft petrol. Owned a 34ft and thought a smaller Rv would be more useful for getting in some European sites so bought a triple slide Gulfstream which had the same amount of space inside as the single slide 34 footer,
Makes no difference at all on site but is a bit better at home for parking.
Intend upsizing again this year back to a diesel pusher.
You can keep the petrol and gas.
Anybody want to buy a 2006 Gulfstream Sun Voyager and save a huge chunk of money on a new one?


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## bognormike

Like Spykal & Brisey, I don't want anything bigger because I like getting to out of the way places - if a white van man can get down that road in Cornwall, so can I! ARV's are fine in the great big country that is USA, but in Europe, not very practical.

And answer me this, RV-ers, why are so many RV's for sale at any time? Look through the private ads in MMM & there's hundreds of them :? :wink:


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## kijana

And, err, how many Europeans on sale at any one time, I wonder?


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## 98585

bognormike said:


> And answer me this, RV-ers, why are so many RV's for sale at any time? Look through the private ads in MMM & there's hundreds of them :? :wink:


Maybe they are all Up-Sizing 

But I think its fair to say that there is a high percentage of yanks for sale compared to their market share, but then I dont know what that is, but a quick count up of van fors sale MMM and someone better at percentages than me might be able to shed some light on it.


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## 98452

Maybe it's the market place for them as far less dealers handle them.


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## DABurleigh

"If you think you made a mistake, say so"

Jimjam,

The above is the crux of your question. I merely want to point out that WHATEVER the answers, they do not provide a short-cut to YOU deciding what is best for YOU.

1) Existing RVers may have researched carefully, got one and are happy with it.

2) They may have got there through bitter and expensive experience/ mistakes before they found that an RV was best for them.

3) They may indeed have made a mistake but are reluctant to admit it.

4) They may indeed have made a mistake but have convinced themselves they haven't.

All of which does not illuminate what is best for you.

Nailing my own ambivalent colours to the mast. I have a panel van, which which I anticipate being happy for the next 9 years. After that, once I can afford to resign, it may well be an RV, mainly for extended use in Europe, a time luxury I don't have right now.

But if I were to comment on RVers, a bit like Mike I never cease to be surprised at the extent to which individually and collectively they leap to "defend" and "justify" their choice, a bit like a zealous religion which demands more join their tribe in order to prove them right and every other religion wrong. I see no reason for them to feel insecure and defensive regarding their choice, but that's how it often comes across.

Dave


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## des

we have now spent over 250 nights in our damon, having gone full time (temporarily while house building) in december. although we loved the previous m/home, an autocruise sunningdale, wouldn't consider going back. space, functionality, comfort, design and quality all outstanding. always use our own shower & toilet - try to pitch within hose / macerator distance of water / grey dump. have to empty black tank only every 10 to 14 days, which takes about 40 minutes. less than the time spent to and fro the loo block over that period if using the public facilities. one of our visitors compared it to a room in a suite hotel - and we agree. risky to say this, but after over 16 months, only the most minor problems, which have been resolved in minutes. oh yes, and the door is wide enough to go in and out with ease. delightful to entertain in - have had 10 inside in comfort. and a joy to drive (did C and C+E) i could go on (and on)

des


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## 103625

Hi fellas
I think the short answer is whatever works for you is best
Tony


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## 98452

I think all camper share one thing in common CAMPING however you do it :wink: :wink: :wink:


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## Scotjimland

DABurleigh said:


> I see no reason for them to feel insecure and defensive regarding their choice, but that's how it often comes across.


RV .... 
I want one, I buy one .. simple,... no justification required..

Apple Mac.. 
I want one, I buy one, ... simple... no justification required.

each to their own, end of story. :wink:

No regrets about either decission 8)


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## 98585

[quote="DABurleigh <snip>I merely want to point out that WHATEVER the answers, they do not provide a short-cut to YOU deciding what is best for YOU.

Dave[/quote]

Hi Dave,

IMHO your wrong. Peoples experiences or mistakes do provide shortcuts for others, I prize them highly and they will have a big influence in my decision making. What I have discovered in my research thus far is that RV's are a bit like Marmite, its a love or hate thing. There are zealous defenders and detractors of course but in the middle ground it seems that most people that responded to "lets be honest" and have given me some excellent balanced opinions to mull over.

Maybe I might find someone who will lend me a 34ft triple slide for a month, now that would be good research, any offers?


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## zaskar

[quote="jimjam................Maybe I might find someone who will lend me a 34ft triple slide for a month, now that would be good research, any offers? [/quote]

...........in your dreams! 8)


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## olley

bognormike said:


> ARV's are fine in the great big country that is USA, but in Europe, not very practical.


This or variations of it often come up, usually written by people who have never driven a large vehicle, or didn't like it when they did.

The fact is that anywhere a normal bus/coach/artic/lorry can go, I can. And they go all over the UK (that incudes cornwall) and Europe, so why aren't they practical?

The other thing is they seem to believe all roads in the states are 8 lane highways. I think you will find they have their share of narrow roads too.

I have owned several Europeans and had some wonderful holidays in them, but I just wanted a yank. Each to his own.

Olley


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## LC1962

jimjam said:


> Maybe I might find someone who will lend me a 34ft triple slide for a month, now that would be good research, any offers?


You could try these guys Jimjam.............. http://www.grandventure.co.uk/forhire.htm

I doubt they would be up for lending but it does give you the option to "try before you buy" :lol:


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## eddievanbitz

I often get told that you can't go any where with a Yank: But there are very few places that I can think of that I would go with say a 22-24 foot European van that I wouldn't take the Winnie. 

One of our Georgie Boys was 36'7 and we happily toured down through France and got a ferry to Corsica and toured around there for four weeks. We had to zig zag reverse on and off the ferries, once at night but we just get on with it. 

If you live in a little village in Cornwall and want to move, the removal company turn up with a dirty great big lorry and get on with it, as do the delivery drivers that deliver to the shops in rural and isolated areas. 

When we used to run Van Bitz from Brixham, loads of my customers would want to be dropped of at the local coach station. "I've always wanted to go to Widdecombe on the Moor, but we always had the van so we could go up there" as they step onto a bog standard coach that's twice the size of their van 8O 

My mother in law is selling her RV as its a "bit big now" she is 71 and the van is 33 feet long. and down sizing to 27 foot!

It's all in the mind


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## spykal

olley said:


> The other thing is they seem to believe all roads in the states are 8 lane highways. I think you will find they have their share of narrow roads too.


Yup they do ....... but it still looks bigger than a Cotswold, Cornish or Welsh lane and there is no grass up the middle :lol: ........


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## LC1962

Country lanes will always be a problem regardless of whether you are in an RV or a bus, especially if you get a complete berk coming the other way at high speed! :roll: .........................


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## Pusser

I am wondering what is going to happen to RV's in America over time. GM is in deep sh*t because people are not buying the big Yank cars anymore while Toyota has now taken over as the bigger overall sales. Winnie has started using european engines and I am wondering now if indeed there is or will be a market for European models that are less fuel thirsty.
Certainly if I was manufacturing a motorhome, I would be looking seriously at what may be the beginning of a new market.


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## 101411

8O  OOUUUUUCCCCHHHHHH!!!!!!!! 8O


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## 88741

Mmm I agree with Dazzer photos like that always make me wince and feel a bit sick  

Have had a couple of very tight squeezes in my van and she is only a shade over 7' wide, so I for one would not want to go any wider. but guess from an oncoming drivers point of view the bigger and wider a vehicle coming towards you looks the more you are inclined to move over and give it the room it looks like it deserves.

Have now got two yellow reflective discs on my wing mirrors and I think I would say they do make oncoming traffic a bit more aware of your width,........

Or is it the sight of a female with clenched teeth hogging the white line :lol:


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## Pusser

HelenB said:


> Or is it the sight of a female with clenched teeth hogging the white line :lol:


The latter. I have from time to time tried the "I've lost total control ploy". All you have to do is take both hands off the wheel and cover your face for a second. It always works even to the point that other vehicles stop dead. But missus isn't very happy when I do this because in her view I have lost control.


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## zaskar

Pusser said:


> I am wondering what is going to happen to RV's in America over time. GM is in deep sh*t because people are not buying the big Yank cars anymore.


GM don't make RV chassis anymore. The RV chassis side was subject to a "management buyout" when GM decided to drop the line and is now a seperate co called Workhorse custom Chassis



Pusser said:


> Winnie has started using european engines and I am wondering now if indeed there is or will be a market for European models that are less fuel thirsty..


Really? What engines and in which type of RV, surely not A class?



Pusser said:


> Certainly if I was manufacturing a motorhome, I would be looking seriously at what may be the beginning of a new market.


........and on that score, I've always thought that the Optimax small busses (do you have the type in your area?) would make a great platform. dont know the chassis make or engine but as a "Euro" it's odds on it'll be more advanced and efficient than your average yank tank.


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## Pusser

Sorry - I wrote the GM badly. I meant that GM are having problems selling large vehicles (no idea about m\homes) because the Yanks are getting more fuel conscious. In other words if Joe 90 is buying more efficient cars, I was wondering if Joe 90 will be buying more efficient m\homes.

Wini uses VW for their low profile m\homes (some) i.e. Rialto

OPtimax...spooky. I thought that too as we have some pottering about in Aylesbury. Lovely looking buses. Almost makes me want to queue at a bus stop.


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## 88741

Pusser said:


> The latter. I have from time to time tried the "I've lost total control ploy". All you have to do is take both hands off the wheel and cover your face for a second. It always works even to the point that other vehicles stop dead. But missus isn't very happy when I do this because in her view I have lost control.


Typical female logic, we just do not understand these things do we :roll:


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## 101411

Hi Zascar

"Really? What engines and in which type of RV, surely not A class? "

Winnebago are using the Merc chassis and engine/gearbox combo for the B+ Aspect range. Look really nice but we found them a little small for our needs. They do a great floorplan with a half round dining area that changes into a really big bed. Only 25ish feet long and 95ish" wide as well.

Dazzer


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## RAH

Engines, technology and peoples' preferences will always change. Prevost, Canadian and now Volvo owned, will stop installing the Detriot Series 60 (our MH engine) and move to the Volvo next year.

Mercedes engines are a highly respected option in US RV's, but my fellow countrymen are fickle about buying "foreign".

Toyota has always been on course for number one and picking up a large part of the American market, while GM rarely has large shares in Asia or Europe, means they here now. Remember Airbus eight years ago, who would have thought.

I read recently that an Australian firm has contracted a Chinese company to manufacturer motorhomes for the American market. Who knows what will be the demographics ten years from now.


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## Pusser

HelenB said:


> Pusser said:
> 
> 
> 
> The latter. I have from time to time tried the "I've lost total control ploy". All you have to do is take both hands off the wheel and cover your face for a second. It always works even to the point that other vehicles stop dead. But missus isn't very happy when I do this because in her view I have lost control.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical female logic, we just do not understand these things do we :roll:
Click to expand...

So true. I will never understand


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## gromett

I have just gone throught he same decision making process. I was very keen on an RV but decided against it in the end due to weight and fuel economy and parts reasons.

I have gone for a Eura Mobil which has a payload of just under 1000Kg.
I will be replacing the cassette toilet with a ceramic one that has an RV style black tank under it and will be installing a macerator etc.

It has 2 dining room areas which can be converted to a bed. I could even leave the back one permanently setup and put a screen/wall across it.

I am installing a generator and roof mounted air con. 

At the end of the day I will have a vehicle that has all the features of an RV without the restrictions and additional costs. Ok, it won't be quite as large inside as an RV with slide outs but I don't really need that extra space.

I think it is a very good compromise between the euro models and a yank RV.

Cheers
Karl


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## Mikemoss

I was tempted to parody that old wartime saying 'overpriced, oversized and over here' but I won't. 

Oops, I just did. Nothing at all against RVs, just not for me right now. Hired a couple in the US and loved them even though some of the interior decor was a little, shall I say, exuberant.

Love of out-of-the-way places and, in particular, remote CS and CL sites, keeps me happy with our British coachbuilt, although I full accept that if a bus/coach/milk tanker can get there so can an RV.

Maybe I'm just a died-in-the-wool English traditionalist at heart as I couldn't even get on with a European (Italian) van and had to come back home for its replacement.

At the end of the day, fascinating though this pro-RV, con-RV discussion is, at the end of the day it's down to individual choice and we're all on the same journey. Just sometimes taking a slightly different route.

Thanks for raising this one by the way, one of the best topics for ages.


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## thewaltons

We are upgrading from a nylon tunnel tent to a 33' RV which is arriving in the UK next week. Just a bit of a contrast! We spent 12 months reading and looking at different motorhomes but just couldn't find anything to compare with the comfort and space. 

My parents have a 23' autocruise and we have spent many evenings in theirs and felt really cramped and on top of each other.

Time will tell if we have made the right decision.


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## olley

gromett said:


> I have gone for a Eura Mobil which has a payload of just under 1000Kg.
> I will be replacing the cassette toilet with a ceramic one that has an RV style black tank under it and will be installing a macerator etc.
> 
> It has 2 dining room areas which can be converted to a bed. I could even leave the back one permanently setup and put a screen/wall across it.
> 
> I am installing a generator and roof mounted air con.
> 
> At the end of the day I will have a vehicle that has all the features of an RV without the restrictions and additional costs. Ok, it won't be quite as large inside as an RV with slide outs but I don't really need that extra space.
> 
> I think it is a very good compromise between the euro models and a yank RV.
> 
> Cheers
> Karl


Hi Karl with the amount of batteries, sat dish and other goodies you are fitting, aren't you in danger of exceeding your payload?

Olley


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## Pusser

One word. (with another one after it) Marine Loo.


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## Bryan

Hi Jimjam

We bought our first RV about a year ago and are now on RV number 3. All have been Damon's. First two were 34ft this one is about 37ft.

First was petrol/lpg - sold it cos I decided that I would prefer a diesel one. 

Second was diesel puller, I hated it, too noisy and not as responsive as the previous one. Did not seem to pull away quick enough at junctions and roundabouts etc.

Third is a diesel pusher and its fab. A different animal all together, drives superb.

We are now thrilled I am sure we will be keeping this one forever!

Hope you find the one you really want!

Suzanne


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## gromett

olley said:


> Hi Karl with the amount of batteries, sat dish and other goodies you are fitting, aren't you in danger of exceeding your payload?
> 
> Olley


Nope  
Dish 88KG
Batteries 65KG each total 260KG
Solar Panels 18KG each total 36KG
New Toilet say 10KG
New black water tank 100Ltrs say 120KG full
Generator 50KG

Total 564KG out of 1000Kg still 436KG left which is more than the 400Kg payload of my hymer  Still lots of space left for my laptop and guitar 

Karl


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## Arizona

Hi Guys

I think each to his own. We all have different needs/requirements from our motorhomes. 

We bought an RV 4 years ago, we had no previous experience of motorhoming or camping but with 4 young children felt that the space in the RV was what we wanted. We loved it! It was only a small one (28ft) but was pretty perfect for us (with the exception of Olley's which would be totally perfect!!) We live in a the heart of the country, there isn't a 2 lane motorway in sight and we managed to get around without any major difficulty. We love to wild camp, the large tanks are great and we never had any major problem emptying the tanks although have a few fun tales to tell!! 

However we've sold it and are now waiting on our Hobby ..."Are you mad" I hear some of you scream and yes this thought had crossed my mind!! We're not full timers, we're holiday people, we spend the summer in Europe and found that we spend more time outside than in. If we were full timing there'd be no contest it'd be RV all the way. But we've decided to try a european model, one of us thinks that's the way to go, the other is not so sure but hey we'll give it a try! Watch this space!!

Regards

Arizona


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## 103356

Only you can say whether the extra space, carrying capacity and comfort are worth the peceived downsides of size and weight. Having looked at the Euro motorhomes, I could not find one that really gave us the space and comfort of an RV, especially if you are looking at a model with slides. I started off looking at a 28' one and eventually bought a 32' one which was significantly more comfortable and roomy. I brought it home yesterday and we are off for our very first shakedown trip tomorrow. Everyone who has seen it thinks it is awesome. Only my wife thinks I'm mad to want to drive an 8' wide, 32' long, motor coach on holiday (but that doesn't stop her wanting to come away in it though!!). As for driving it on UK roads, I drove it home, for the very first time, over 160 miles on a variety of roads from motorway, to main A roads, to narrow country roads round Dorset and Wiltshire, without problem. It was actually a lot of fun, and I hope to be having a lot more fun in the future. They are not for everybody, but if you want one, go for it.


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