# A bit of a do



## aldra

Well it seems I had a TIA last night

I was fine, had a coughing fit as I swallowed badly and found I could no longer form the words I needed, very strange, slurred speech in slow motion 

The hospital A&E were brilliant, head scan, chest X-ray and heart tracing ,blood tests the stroke doctor was brilliant 

It seems my heart has been beating irregularly which can cause blood clots, and he will now monitor my aortic tissue valve, I have had brief recurring periods of dizziness but put it down to the immune suppressant drugs 

Now on a modern anticoagulant and hopefully a stroke averted 

Deserted in A&E thanks to the corona virus 

So every cloud has a silver lining 

I’m fine just tired 

Sandra


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## barryd

Really sorry to hear that Sandra. Take it easy and Keep safe.


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## erneboy

Sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better soon.


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## dghr272

Hope things clear up Sandra, my recent collapse was due to BP postural drop when I was on my feet. BP drops too low when on your feet so the brain shuts down to save you. I felt dizzy just before I tumbled.

The systolic Pressure shouldn’t drop more than 20 between a sitting/lying reading and a reading taken after standing for 2 mins, keep an eye on it and take it easy. 

Terry


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## jiwawa

Sorry to hear that Sandra but it sounds as if you've been lucky.

I'm not sure how it'll be, later in this virus nightmare, but certainly in the past heart n stroke problems always had great support from NHS. 

I guess that's put the kaibosh on your tricycle training - for the moment!


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## JanHank

On heck, what a thing to happen, very scary for you and Albert. I hope you make a quick recovery, maybe the blood thinner will make you feel better all round.

Heike keeps telling me when I am out walking alone with Mot I must remember to take the phone, you have now made me think she is right and must put it on my check list along with checking I have his treats in my pocket. I am guessing you are at home, they didn't keep you any longer that absolutely necessary.


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## patp

Flippin' 'eck girl!

If it helps at all, I was told during all the investigations into the seizure I had last year, that several tia's showed up on my brain scan. They assured me that these are all perfectly normal for a woman of certain age (how very dare they!). Not had any symptoms since that day. I would like to say I am normal but..................


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## jiwawa

JanHank said:


> Heike keeps telling me when I am out walking alone with Mot I must remember to take the phone, you have now made me think she is right


Absolutely Jan - I think that should apply to anyone, particularly if there's no one at home to notice they haven't returned.

I'm surprised a sensible girl like you didn't take Heike"s advice sooner! (wink!)


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## JanHank

jiwawa said:


> Absolutely Jan - I think that should apply to anyone, particularly if there's no one at home to notice they haven't returned.
> 
> I'm surprised a sensible girl like you didn't take Heike"s advice sooner! (wink!)


Oh, but I did Jean, just that I keep forgetting to put the buddy thing in my pocket not being used to carrying one about like most of you. 
I´ve only had it for a matter of months don´t forget and I don´t phone people on it or they me, that is done on the house phone. 
The other little Nokia was only used on holiday for texting or when one of us was in hospital and of course there has never been a situation like this before.

P.S. whoever told you, or whatever give you the idea I am sensible :grin2:


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## jiwawa

JanHank said:


> P.S. whoever told you, or whatever give you the idea I am sensible /images/MotorhomeFacts_2014/smilies/tango_face_grin.png


Well, you kinda think like me so you must be!!


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## dghr272

jiwawa said:


> Well, you kinda think like me so you must be!!


I'll wait for a formal medical opinion regarding the pair of you. :wink2:

Terry


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## jiwawa

Ah now Terry, I wouldn't take on both of us together! Not in your weakened state!!


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## erneboy

JanHank said:


> Oh, but I did Jean, just that I keep forgetting to put the buddy thing in my pocket not being used to carrying one about like most of you.
> I´ve only had it for a matter of months don´t forget and I don´t phone people on it or they me, that is done on the house phone.
> The other little Nokia was only used on holiday for texting or when one of us was in hospital and of course there has never been a situation like this before.
> 
> P.S. whoever told you, or whatever give you the idea I am sensible :grin2:


Living where we do one of us will often go off into the countryside with the dogs. It's a vast area so if anything happened to immobilise you it might be weeks before you'd be found. Once or twice I've found I've forgotten my phone and felt very uneasy just in case.

Aplogies Sandra. I didn't realise which thread this was.

I hope you are recovering.


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## JanHank

We have once again managed drifted off a threads purpose, sorry Sandra, but maybe you have also been able to laugh at some of whats been said.

How are you today?


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## aldra

Jan you MUST CARRY YOUR PHONE WHEN OUT ALONE

You never know when an emergency will occur 

I’m fine as I said just a bit tired , 

Not a bit possevive about the thread good to hear from you all

Just need to get Pat home now 

Spoke with Barry on the phone yesterday , that cheered me up

Keep safe all of you I’m sure if we stay sensible we will all survive this corona scare 

Obviously we won’t be going to the remote farm field now, best to stay close to the hospital as advised by the stroke doctor 

Not that I think I am in any danger but I’ll take care for a couple of weeks

Alberts fine, as Barry says Albert will probably be the last man standing , pedalling his way round Manchester !!!

Sandra


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## patp

We are just as bad with phones. We only have the little Doro flip top phones and, like others, use them for emergencies. I do try, when I walk the dog, to take mine. I have a little ditty "Tissues (lots!), Toilet (poo) bags, Treats and Telephone". Doesn't always work, though, because I get distracted trotting round looking for everything and the phone is usually miles away from the door 
When we needed to use them, the other day, out shopping in Pinoso they would not work. I think one of them needed charging or something  

Jan, which phone did you get? My daughter does not have Apple products and so we are thinking that, if we do change to a smart phone, it will need to be the other kind (Android?) if we are to do face time each other or whatever it is called. It may be a while before I get to see the baby so would be nice to have something visual.


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## JanHank

patp said:


> Jan, which phone did you get? My daughter does not have Apple products and so we are thinking that, if we do change to a smart phone, it will need to be the other kind (Android?) if we are to do face time each other or whatever it is called. It may be a while before I get to see the baby so would be nice to have something visual.


I treated myself to an iPhone Pat, but you don´t have to have an expensive one to be able to use WhatsApp which is downloaded for free or facebooks messenger which comes with a facebook account.

I don´t know if it´s necessary for me to have the iPhone for the photos I take on the phone to go directly into my iPhoto on the PC, but every photo that I take or comes to me on email, whatsApp or messenger goes into my iPhoto.


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## patp

Ah, I thought you got an android. We have an ipad so it would make sense to get an iphone but thought it might make face time, or whatever, easier if daughter and I had the same type of phone. I might switch this thread to the tech part of the site.


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## Wilmannie

Sorry to read this Sandra and hope you’re feeling better today.


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## aldra

Haven’t felt so good today

A bit flu-y, chest a bit dry and a cough 

But I’ve been cooking all day, I’d defrosted a kilo of mince, had a load of peppers, aubergines , mushrooms , courgettes 

So made a load of stuffed veg and a mousakka , old habits die hard, I
hate to waste food 

So I’ve probabally just overdone it a bit 

Other than the hospital visits, I went again yesterday as I felt an uncomfortable pressure on the left side of my neck since my Friday episode, blood tests, ecg and they felt all was Ok, I’ve more or less been self isolating

I met with my daughter at the hospital and of course staff

I need to go again tomorrow for my 2 week blood test for the immuno suppresent drugs 

We do what we can to self isolate but both of us have hospital appointments

Albert wants to buy special masks, andmaybe he is right

He still cycles and walks the hound on alternative days, his knees are bad, meets no one he says, and I guess the exercise is crucial for him 

Me, I have two nurses and two teachers still on the frontline 

So I’m far more worried about them than me

I never thought I’d get to 76, and I can’t die young now

A few more years would be a bonus 

But what a thing to live through, history in the making , better we never experienced it 

But that’s exactly what we are doing 

Sandra


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## JanHank

You just reminded me I am also defrosting some mince.
First of all why do we do it, over do things, well you can hardly pack up in the middle of cooking, but I´d say the thing for you to do would be make one thing at a time, stuff veg today Moussaka tomorrow, too late now.

All these doctor and hospital appointments I know well, I seem to have a lot of spare time on my hands now.

Yes, what a thing for us to live through, although we knew nothing of WW11 we are certainly living through something which, to my mind, is worse than a war, the enemy now is invisible.

I hope we all come out unscathed at the other end.
Stay safe.


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## barryd

Try not to be doing too much Sandra. You have still had effectively a mini stroke. Hats off and good luck to your family on the front line. Respect to them all. Chances are if they do get it they will shake it off as a mild illness.


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## aldra

I really hope the kids will be fine Barry

How are you , you were not feeling well?

Me I have had a few glasses of wine 

When in doubt and all that 

The meals are cooked, prob need to be frozen or distributed to the kids

I just keep going , I always have 

If I’ve got the virus , and I don’t think I have, but who knows

At least I will only give it to Albert 

And 50 plus years of marriage

It’s time I gave him something

Sandra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> I really hope the kids will be fine Barry
> 
> How are you , you were not feeling well?
> 
> Me I have had a few glasses of wine
> 
> When in doubt and all that
> 
> The meals are cooked, prob need to be frozen or distributed to the kids
> 
> I just keep going , I always have
> 
> If I've got the virus , and I don't think I have, but who knows
> 
> At least I will only give it to Albert
> 
> And 50 plus years of marriage
> 
> It's time I gave him something
> 
> Sandra


I thought I was dying yesterday and not been great today but a bit better however I now have a rash on my lower chest and abdomen as well as flu like symptoms. Because of the rash I requested a call from my GP but he basically said it could be Covid still as they just simply dont understand the effects it has on everyone. Its not always the same. I hope it is Covid now so I can get it out of the way, become immune and maybe help some locals but of course with no flipping testing being done or available there is no way to find out.

I must be ill as I really couldnt face a drink.


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## aldra

Bless

Keep well Barry

I need you to be well 

It’s about time they knew the symptoms

Never heard mention of a rash before

Sandra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> Bless
> 
> Keep well Barry
> 
> I need you to be well
> 
> It's about time they knew the symptoms
> 
> *Never heard mention of a rash before
> *
> Sandra


Probably Covid Ebola then I bet!


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## dghr272

barryd said:


> Probably Covid Ebola then I bet!


Trust you to get something complicated, probably been lying dormant since your SAS days in the jungle.

Feel really sorry for Mrs D. :wink2:

Terry


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## jiwawa

So how are you today, Sandra n Barry?


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## JanHank

jiwawa said:


> So how are you today, Sandra n Barry?


I would like to know how Sandra is,

but don´t keep asking Barry, he just wallows in self pity there´s no room for yours >:grin2: Go on Barry tell Jean how you are today.


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## barryd

Terrible. The rash has now become hundreds of itchy spots all over my body, head, neck and face, still feel like death with very little energy and more worrying I can feel an effect on my throat and lungs now tightening a bit. Reading online a rash is not described as a symptom but your immune system can create one if its fighting something else and goes overboard or something like that. What can you do? Nothing it seems.


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## erneboy

Sorry to hear that Baz.


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## Penquin

Could you post a picture of the rash? I will then show the nurse and see what she suggests.....

Admittedly she was a VERY specialist High Dependency Paediatric nurse but rashes were one of their specialities....

But....

Do please choose an area of your skin that will not frighten the horses....

Please...


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## JanHank

barryd said:


> Terrible. The rash has now become hundreds of itchy spots all over my body, head, neck and face, still feel like death with very little energy and more worrying I can feel an effect on my throat and lungs now tightening a bit. Reading online a rash is not described as a symptom but your immune system can create one if its fighting something else and goes overboard or something like that. What can you do? Nothing it seems.


Did you have chicken pox as a child Barry, this sounds very much like it to me, even what you described to start with fever tiredness, loss of appetite and headache.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/chickenpox/symptoms-causes/syc-20351282


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## barryd

Penquin said:


> Could you post a picture of the rash? I will then show the nurse and see what she suggests.....
> 
> Admittedly she was a VERY specialist High Dependency Paediatric nurse but rashes were one of their specialities....
> 
> But....
> 
> Do please choose an area of your skin that will not frighten the horses....
> 
> Please...


I can try. Ill do my chest and face if possible. very few on the arms and legs. Mainly upper body, head and face. I dunno if I had chickenpox. Where the hell would I have picked up that though in recent weeks Ive pretty much been in hiding apart from two trips to the garage for the car and van to be serviced.


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## JanHank

barryd said:


> I can try. Ill do my chest and face if possible. very few on the arms and legs. Mainly upper body, head and face. I dunno if I had chickenpox. Where the hell would I have picked up that though in recent weeks Ive pretty much been in hiding apart from two trips to the garage for the car and van to be serviced.


How should I know where you might have picked it up, I don´t know where you go to in the evening when everyone thinks your practicing your banjo do I :frown2:

So are the spots as described in the link or not, have you taken a picture and sent to Dave yet, if not for heavens sake send it by PM coz although I've had chicken pox a lot of people still haven't I bet and we don´t want you starting another epidemic.


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## barryd

Penquin said:


> Could you post a picture of the rash? I will then show the nurse and see what she suggests.....
> 
> Admittedly she was a VERY specialist High Dependency Paediatric nurse but rashes were one of their specialities....
> 
> But....
> 
> Do please choose an area of your skin that will not frighten the horses....
> 
> Please...


Alright Ive done my best with a front facing phone camera. They dont show up well but they do look exactly like the ones in the photos in Jans Chickenpox link

I made them thumbnails so as to not frighten too much the casual FACTS browser who might end up hurling up their tea.

Abdomen and chest area



Bit of closer lower gut area



Miserable face


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## erneboy

Poor Baz.


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## raynipper

Either Worts or galloping knob rot.

Ray.


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## barryd

Ffs


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## Penquin

Have you ever had Chickenpox ?


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## barryd

Dunno Dave. Dont ever remember having it. The only one I remember is Mumps. Nobody to ask really

Tried to get a private video appointment with the Push Doctor service which I am happy to pay for but they only do it if your surgery is a partner and ours still use flaming fax machines and of course are not.


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## bilbaoman

If its chickenpox dont take Ibruprofen as it can cause serious skin infections


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## JanHank

Penquin said:


> Have you ever had Chickenpox ?


I asked him that earlier Dave and he doesn´t know :frown2:

Oh sorry I missed Barrys answer to you.
All the symptoms he´s had add up to chickenpox.


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## raynipper

The world is running around fending off a totally new and unknown virus and Baz digs one up from the medieval times. Talk about out of step?

Ray.


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## aldra

Barry can you ask for a phone consultation from your GP practise?

If so do it, he may decide to see you 

I’m Ok , just a bad cold I think, coughing but not constantly and no temp as yet, resting plenty

Went today to the hospital for a blood test, have to do them every two weeks as they have increased the immune suppressant drug 

No idea where I’ve picked up a cold virus, I rarely get a cold even when Albert gets one

Plenty of juiced fruits with fresh ginger to ward it off

Phone your GP tomorrow Barry, have you eaten anything that you don’t normally eat , could it be an allergy rash?

Keep us informed of how you are 

Stay safe everyone else 

Love

Sandra


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## barryd

aldra said:


> Barry can you ask for a phone consultation from your GP practise?
> 
> If so do it, he may decide to see you
> 
> I'm Ok , just a bad cold I think, coughing but not constantly and no temp as yet, resting plenty
> 
> Went today to the hospital for a blood test, have to do them every two weeks as they have increased the immune suppressant drug
> 
> No idea where I've picked up a cold virus, I rarely get a cold even when Albert gets one
> 
> Plenty of juiced fruits with fresh ginger to ward it off
> 
> Phone your GP tomorrow Barry, have you eaten anything that you don't normally eat , could it be an allergy rash?
> 
> Keep us informed of how you are
> 
> Stay safe everyone else
> 
> Love
> 
> Sandra


I had one yesterday with my GP over the phone Sandra but that was before the rash got as bad as it is now and itchy. He just gave me the script "could be corona, self isolate, etc etc now go away". Tried to get a Private appointment this afternoon with video but you cant do that unless they partner with your GP.

However tonight Michelle reveals that about ten days to two weeks ago which was probably around the last time we were at the gym she noticed a kid running around (There are loads on a weekend) that clearly had spots all over him. So who knows. Otherwise whatever it is I have no idea how or what Ive picked up. That said, Ambulance called tonight for a lady in our remote village with a raging temperature!! So much for being safe out in the sticks.


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## bilbaoman

barryd said:


> I had one yesterday with my GP over the phone Sandra but that was before the rash got as bad as it is now and itchy. He just gave me the script "could be corona, self isolate, etc etc now go away". Tried to get a Private appointment this afternoon with video but you cant do that unless they partner with your GP.
> 
> However tonight Michelle reveals that about ten days to two weeks ago which was probably around the last time we were at the gym she noticed a kid running around (There are loads on a weekend) that clearly had spots all over him. So who knows. Otherwise whatever it is I have no idea how or what Ive picked up. That said, Ambulance called tonight for a lady in our remote village with a raging temperature!! So much for being safe out in the sticks.


Incubation period for chickenpox is 10 to 21 days and is infectious 1 to 2 days before the rash until the blisters hae scabed over about 1 week stay away from pregnant ladies and people with imune problems


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## raynipper

Just goes to confirm my beliefs that too much exercise especially at expensive gyms is dangerous to our health. I bet you only go there to ogle the lycra clad and nubile young ladies.

Ray.


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## barryd

raynipper said:


> Just goes to confirm my beliefs that too much exercise especially at expensive gyms is dangerous to our health. I bet you only go there to ogle the lycra clad and nubile young ladies.
> 
> Ray.


Well I am a bit annoyed Ray. I have been banging on about quitting it for a while now as I figured it would be a petri dish for Coronavirus but no, FECKING CHICKENPOX INSTEAD!!!


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## raynipper

He he he :crying::surprise:

Ray.


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## erneboy

Poor Baz.


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## Penquin

HTMBO says Chickenpox, there is no evidence of ANY rash links with CoVid19 and your timeline fits,

Are the spots like small blisters ? If so, that's a definite....

Blame the pesky kid you could try finding its parents and suggesting a massive pay out is due to you for their allowing said pesky child to endanger your health...

You won't get anywhere but it might make you feel better....

Leffe may help if taken regularly and in sensible quantities - you might like to ask Michelle to define "sensible"......

Sorry for the levity, but it's typical of you.....

Calamine from the pharmacy will help with itching - but makes you look most odd..

If you can find an old pop sock (I know you don't wear them often....), fill it with oats and hang it under the bath tap,nthe material that comes out if the oats will soothe the itching a great deal. It can also be used to wash lightly - not scrub, it only needs a handful of oats each tim.

Those bits were from MrsW - she has not mentioned sending a private consultation fee....

One warning though - do self isolate as such an infection does raise your "at risk" level as your immune system is already trying to overcome one thing so you do NOT want to double the work load...

.


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## barryd

I had a video consultation about an hour ago with my GP Dave. At first when I ran the camera over my various bits he wasnt convinced it was Chickenpox. Said the colours were not right and a bit grey but I explained that they were pink and its just the crappy camera. He kept talking about blisters but they are not blisters like I know them but they are starting to harden on the top so in the end he kind of agreed it was most likely Chickenpox. He did offer me an antiviral medication but as I would have to go and get it I gave it a swerve for now. Same with the Oatmeal and Bicarb for the bath which someone else suggested. I would have to go and source them and its not worth the risk.

If it isnt chickenpox though then WTF is it? Must be. The pictures Ive seen look very similar as are they symptoms. 

Thank you and to Mrs W for the advice. Please send the bill to Mr W A N Ker, 10 Downing street. Apparently he's paying for everything.


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## patp

Oh no! Poor you  Wish you a speedy recovery Barry.

I hear peeled grapes are good 

Sandra, hope you feel better soon.


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## erneboy

Poor Baz.


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## jiwawa

patp said:


> I hear peeled grapes are good


What on earth do you do with peeled grapes Pat?

Good to see you back online - hopefully you've updated your journey elsewhere.


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## patp

Jean, it is the pure pleasure derived from having someone peel them for one    Cures all ills!


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## Penquin

barryd said:


> Thank you and to Mrs W for the advice. Please send the bill to Mr W A N Ker, 10 Downing street. Apparently he's paying for everything.


Done :wink2:


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## jiwawa

patp said:


> Jean, it is the pure pleasure derived from having someone peel them for one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cures all ills!


Do you actually do that Pat??!!


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## Penquin

How are you this morning "Oh Spotty One" ?


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## erneboy

He's having a spot of bother.


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## Penquin

erneboy said:


> He's having a spot of bother.


Or "He's having the bother of a spot"


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## barryd

Well this thread is supposed to be about Sandra not me but seeing as you asked.

Pretty ****ty. The itching late yesterday afternoon was just so unbearable I Wanted to tear my face off. I ended up hitting the Scotch again as its the only thing that makes it go away completely but of course it knackers your immune system. Slept much longer last night though, longer than I have for ages. Worryingly my throat is really sore and I had trouble swallowing my morning banana. 

Spots are horrendous and all over my face and head which if they leave scars will ruin my pretty face forever! 

So all in all. ****e 

Now. Sandra. How are you?


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## erneboy

Poor Baz. Sorry for the levity.


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## Penquin

barryd said:


> Well this thread is supposed to be about Sandra not me but seeing as you asked.
> 
> Pretty ****ty. The itching late yesterday afternoon was just so unbearable I Wanted to tear my face off. I ended up hitting the Scotch again as its the only thing that makes it go away completely but of course it knackers your immune system. Slept much longer last night though, longer than I have for ages. Worryingly my throat is really sore and I had trouble swallowing my morning banana.
> 
> Spots are horrendous and all over my face and head which if they leave scars will ruin my pretty face forever!
> 
> So all in all. ****e
> 
> Now. Sandra. How are you?


Another message from MrsW;

"Do NOT take Brufen, Ibuprufen or any similar drugs - they will make the scarring far worse."

Now you know, keep as cheerful as you can and do not knacker your liver for this nasty thing, she said to check the NHS website as it is very good, if you can get past CV19.....

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chickenpox/

5 days from when spots first appeared, so you are more than half way through...


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## erneboy

From what the poor lad says he feels more than half way through and all Dave.


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## JanHank

Bit tough of Mother Nature, but maybe this was the only way to keep him at home.:frown2:

Has the cream arrived yet Barry?


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## aldra

I’m not feeling too well

I thought I had a cold as I started with a vague sore throat , but didn’t really go on to develop much in the way of cold symptoms except a bit of a fever 

I have now a constant low grade fever , couldn’t attend the stroke consultant appointment because of the corona scare, although I have no cough or chest problems ,he says he’ll contact me on the telephone 

I clearly have some sort of infection which Im fighting whether successfully or not remains to be seen

It’s hard to judge on immune suppressants, I’m sleeping a lot day and night 

And I’m guessing even a mild infection has me at its advantage 

I might phone the GP tomorrow though I’m not sure what he can do, corona is much more pressing at the moment and rightly so

Alberts fine so I’m guessing I’m not infectious, as I’ve been unwell since Sunday , it may be as simply as a mild urine infection which I cant fight off

Just makes me feel generally unwell 

Barry I feel for you , childhood diseases are no fun in adults , take care and rest plenty 

Same goes for all of you , stay in stay safe 

Sandra


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## Penquin

Sandra,

We all feel for you too, like everyone else we (Lesley and I ) hope that you will improve and soon be back to your normal caring persona. We are glad that Albert is well and are sure that between him and Shadow you will get lots of attention.

Probably best not to actually see the Consultant at the moment - don't put yourself at risk of catching what we all hope you have managed to avoid so far.

I hope that tomorrow the family will be doing all the preparation for your normal family meal - thry are all quite capable of doing that while, for one, you can step back a little and take a very well deserved rest.

Please keep posting to tell us how you are - we all want to know since you are truly one of the strongest members of this forum and your contributions are always worth reading.

Keep yourself safe and do try to rest - I know that, for you, is VERY hard....

If you do have a UTI, remember throughout helps remove the infection, natural yoghurt is also often cited as being of benefit.... but you know that and gave a good diet.

Thinking of you and hoping that Albert stays well.

Lesley and Dave


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## barryd

Sorry to hear this Sandra. Consultants and GPs should be able to do video consultations via your smartphone, ipad or laptop. Not much use if they need to listen to your chest I guess but as you really sound like you need to be self isolating its still worth doing.

Dave. I know about the Brufen etc. Thanks though for the advice. Im not taking anything. odd paracetamol. My neighbour did deliver the cream. Stuck some on my face and forehead. Not sure its worked. Its odd as its not been as itchy today but just like yesterday around this time it starts getting worse. Just like Mozzie bites get worse when it starts to get dark. This is the same. Thought I was feeling brighter so went outside for the first time in days to see if I could get the bike started. By the time I had moved the car, wheeled it out and messed on five minutes trying to get it going I just felt terrible and clammy. Had to give up, go back in and back to bed.

Gonna try the guitar in a minute.

Take it easy Sandra and look after yourself. Stay at home!


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## aldra

My son is dropping off a thermometer so I can check my temp prior to phoning the Gp tomorrow, I don’t want to waste his time 

I know I have a fever even if I don’t know why 

I have no thermometer can you believe that? 

The chemist have non either 

No cough or chest symptoms so obviously not the dreaded virus unless a very mild attack which is very unlikely on immunosuppressants 

You and Lesley take extra special care Dave, you are surrounded with fields so make sure that’s all that surrounds you 

It’s hard not seeing the family, our son dropped off some eggs in the post box and young Archer was incensed that he couldn’t come in for his chocolate biscuit , bless him 

We worry about our kids on the frontline but are proud of them,

Albert wishes he could volunteer , maybe he could support people by phone 

I’m not really well enough at the moment but I may get there soon

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

Hope you both feel considerably better tomorrow. It's a worry tho.


----------



## JanHank

What a scary time for us all, especially if like you Sandra you aren't in the best of health anyway. I also hope you're feeling at least a little better today.

76 years ago people dreaded the though of hearing a bomb, today we are dreading hearing a cough.
A different kind of war and the soldiers are doctors, nurses and other health workers who from what I have just heard have been given water pistols instead of guns to protect them.


----------



## barryd

Any update Sandra?


----------



## Penquin

How are you Barry ?


----------



## raynipper

How ya doin Dave?


----------



## Penquin

We're OK thanks, nice and quiet here with literally no one around.

Daughter in London only seems to have mild version, no, she has not been anywhere near Boris.....


----------



## aldra

I’m fine Barry, I’m prob sleeping it off 

Temp seems better today although I’ve only just got up 

More to the point how are you and how is Michelle?

Not wishing to worry you but if you have already had chicken pox you can get shingles if you come into contact with the virus, so keep an eye on Michelle 

Now there’s a thought for all you stay at home workers, the alarm rings you just switch it off turn over and get back to sleep, bliss

The sun is shining, I’m going to wrap up and sit outside a while and watch Albert as he balances on a board to cross the pond to fertilise the pots of hostas :nerd:

Whilst I’m on I can’t seem to post any photos

It asks me to choose a size and when I guess at one it’s obviously not the right one

It would be sad not to be able to post the moment he falls into the pond >

He like me is 76 and says he won’t be able to cross that pond for many more years, nowthere’s a surprise :nerd:

So I’ll sit I pad poised, well you have to pass the time somehow >

Keep positive all of you

Sandra :grin2:


----------



## jiwawa

Glad to hear you're keeping your sense of humour Sandra! Enjoy the fresh air.


----------



## aldra

Lock down is not so difficult for me, Jean 

Prior to the intervention of the rheumatologist I was locked in the house in a lot of pain, day and night, stiff and scarcely able to walk and very afraid of what I’d become 

Now the immuno suppressants have prevented my immune system from attacking my joints, constantly swollen hot painful joints are a thing of the past , the stiffness if not entirely gone is so much better

I’m not able to take off and walk far except for a short while following steroid treatment but I can( could) go the shop 

So for me it’s lockdown without the pain , even though I’m not feeling 100 % at the moment , I’m feeling so much better than I did 

My daughter has dropped off salad and fruit , they are all in touch checking if we need anything from whenever they shop so we are very lucky

Juicing pineapple, apples, melons and ginger and getting loads of fresh fruit and veg

Well done our local Aldi for keeping those shelves full

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

Glad to hear the pain has been reduced and that your food supply has been topped up - we know how important diet has always been to you.

How is Shadow copibg with the restrictions the lockdown has imposed on his lifestyle ?

Keep safe, try to keep healthy and pain free and above all else - keep in touch - we all benefit from hearing how things are going.


----------



## aldra

Hasn’t really made a difference to him Dave

He’s walked every other day in the cemetery , alberts Knees are not so good so that’s about all he can manage 

He could run with the bike but he’s getting a bit old for that now

Between that he has the garden to wander about 

He and we are disappointed to have missed out on a trip in the van but needs must

I can understand that if all van owners took off to remote spots they wouldn’t be remote for long 

And would use up scarce resources in the area should the virus strike 

Albert cycles alternative days, he’s been up on the moors today so we are luckier than most 

Older grandkids are getting itchy feet already so constantly phoning for a chat about nothing in particular 

Told our daughter to add some luxury items, chocolates ect to our shopping bill and keep them for herself 

We all need a bit of luxury at times like this 

We have a load of Easter eggs waiting to be distributed between the family , safe with me, I don’t like chocolate that much and very rarely eat it 

Hopefully things will settle a bit before Easter 

Sandra


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> I'm fine Barry, I'm prob sleeping it off
> 
> Temp seems better today although I've only just got up
> 
> More to the point how are you and how is Michelle?
> 
> Not wishing to worry you but if you have already had chicken pox you can get shingles if you come into contact with the virus, so keep an eye on Michelle
> 
> Now there's a thought for all you stay at home workers, the alarm rings you just switch it off turn over and get back to sleep, bliss
> 
> The sun is shining, I'm going to wrap up and sit outside a while and watch Albert as he balances on a board to cross the pond to fertilise the pots of hostas :nerd:
> 
> Whilst I'm on I can't seem to post any photos
> 
> It asks me to choose a size and when I guess at one it's obviously not the right one
> 
> It would be sad not to be able to post the moment he falls into the pond >
> 
> He like me is 76 and says he won't be able to cross that pond for many more years, nowthere's a surprise :nerd:
> 
> So I'll sit I pad poised, well you have to pass the time somehow >
> 
> Keep positive all of you
> 
> Sandra :grin2:


Good to hear your sleeping it off and your temp is down.

I Dont think your right on the singles thing though. According to this Michelle cant get Shingles from me. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/shingles/

Although I Could get it in the future if my immune system is low.

Still feel pretty grim but its now probably partly due to the amount of booze I put away over the past three nights. first two nights was just a massive great glass of Scotch sipped away at over an hour or so which blissfully got rid of the itching but I overdid it last night and sunk a bottle of red as well.  I think though the itching phase is slowly easing off. will see what its like tonight but ill lay off the booze for a few days now if its bearable. Im probably extending it all by drinking anyway. A case of which is the lesser of two evils.

It will be about a week now really. I reckon it was around last Thursday / Friday I started to notice something wasnt quite right. Managed about an hour in the music studio last night but my heart and energy just isnt in it. I would be fine with isolating here as its smashing, some nice cycle rides and empty fields etc but I reckon it will be weeks before Im fit enough for any of that. Meanwhile michelle fed me a huge lunch of stuff that she was worried would need chucking out. Lovely as it was Im now stuffed as well.


----------



## erneboy

Hope you both improve soon.


----------



## patp

Thinking of you two poorly people. At least it is not the depths of winter. Nothing worse than being ill when it is so dark and dismal.


----------



## aldra

Good I’m glad I got mixed up on shingles and Michelle is safe, at least from you

We’ve both had the shingles vaccine

You will be fine Barry, exercise little to start with and slowly build it up, a short walk on the moors each day in the fresh air 

Oatmeal in the bath will sooth your skin, soak oats in water and add the strained solution to a warm bath, or tie it in muslim and drop it into your Bath

I’m feeling a bit better, although I didn’t get up till mid day I’ve usually returned for a couple of hours by now 

It’s not corona, no cough, no chest problems, no breathing difficulties , just generally feeling unwell and tired with a raised temp 

Plum and pear tree beginning to flower, magnolia full of buds , the camellia not far behind it 

Natures keeping going , corona not withstanding 

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

Our Magnolias have finished flowering, daffodils well finished, tulips in full flower, plum trees finished, cherry trees flowering and, of course, dandelions in full flower so bees very happy and active. Our rosemary bush is in flower and numerous other fruit trees such as Bramley apple, crab apple, Katy Apple, apricots just about finished so for us, the garden is beautifully scented.

We generally re kin that France is about one month ahead of the SW of the UK with flowering etc but sadly only about two weeks for the virus.... the Chief Medical Officer has announced that it is rife in the East, (Alps etc),, now becoming very established in Ike de France (Paris etc) and concern about Haute France (the middle bit), that only leaves us in the West to be laid waste by the virus but probably by next week........

I genuinely wish you all well in the UK, we WILL come through it, if we work together, but it will be a long battle. Sadly I doubt that we will get any bookings for our gite this summer or that the MH will venture far or often..... bee have a site booked for June but expect that will end up cancelled...

Oh dear.....


----------



## aldra

Possibly not Dave, you are pretty remote

But of course you need to consider will guests bring the virus to you and your village

And you won’t know that ahead of time

Is there any financial help available to you and others in your situation?

Sandra


----------



## patp

Our campsite owners in Spain are very worried. Not only does it affect bookings but if people are not staying they are not getting the recommendations that they rely on in their area for business.


----------



## aldra

It is worrying Pat

But a full campsite of visiting people

Xamount will get and pass the corona virus

X amount of those will be serious enough to warrant intensive care and even ventilators 

Which are probably insufficient to deal with the local population let alone visitors 

It’s hard but true we all need to stay home in our own area until this pandemic passes

If it ever does

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> Possibly not Dave, you are pretty remote
> 
> But of course you need to consider will guests bring the virus to you and your village
> 
> And you won't know that ahead of time
> 
> Is there any financial help available to you and others in your situation?
> 
> Sandra


If we had several gites and were therefore registered as a business the answer would be possibly, Macron has said "No businesses will suffer" but no details so probably later in the year.

With just one gite we do not need to register as a business so probably no, anyway.

But as you said, that means we are less likely to have the virus as an unwelcome guest and as we are both in the very vulnerable group with virtually no chance of ventilator type care - which we have already discussed between ourselves and probably rejected if it happens because the success rate is so low we are unlikely to be offered it anyway....

If this is the way we make our exit, do be it, we have both had good lives and would not want to be left as vegetables dependent on being ventilated.

We are not being pessimistic but hopefully realistic.....


----------



## patp

I was thinking along the same lines, Dave. What quality of life would we have if the virus hit us hard and we ended up being ventilated? How guilty would we feel if we clogged up an ITU bed only to live a poor quality of life? What kind of world will it be after the virus?

The other question is if we survive this lock down, and things start to get back to normal, just how normal will that be for us? The virus will still be around and, if they find a vaccine, we don't know how effective it will be for quite a while. Will the world be a nice place to live?


----------



## JanHank

patp said:


> I was thinking along the same lines, Dave. *What quality of life would we have* *if *the virus hit us hard and we *ended up being ventilated?* *How guilty would we feel if we clogged up an ITU bed only to live a poor quality of life? *What kind of world will it be after the virus?


Thoughts that went and still go through my head about another situation last year. It is however not a pleasant way to leave this world.


----------



## barryd

Dont want to be morbid or anything but I thought you only needed the ventilator if you end up getting bad pneumonia and just until you come out the other side of it. Dont think it leaves you permanently in need of a respirator does it? I must admit ive not paid that much attention but thats the impression I got. you could be lucky and either not get it or if you do not get it too bad.


----------



## JanHank

barryd said:


> Dont want to be morbid or anything but I thought you only needed the ventilator if you end up getting bad pneumonia and just until you come out the other side of it. Dont think it leaves you permanently in need of a respirator does it? I must admit ive not paid that much attention but thats the impression I got. you could be lucky and either not get it or if you do not get it too bad.


Pneumonia can permanently damage your lungs I am sure Barry, to what extent probably depends on the type of pneumonia you have, I was told there is more that one when I said we had had the vaccine.

Ask Mr. Google.
Here is one answer

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/pneumonia


----------



## Penquin

barryd said:


> Dont want to be morbid or anything but I thought you only needed the ventilator if you end up getting bad pneumonia and just until you come out the other side of it. Dont think it leaves you permanently in need of a respirator does it? I must admit ive not paid that much attention but thats the impression I got. you could be lucky and either not get it or if you do not get it too bad.


The stats of post ventilation success are not good where they have been published, which is primarily China and Italy, so far. I do not want to worry people so will refrain from posting them, but success for the young (<55) is greater than for the older or those with chronic health issues.

Avoidance of the need for such treatment is the most effective answer, sadly at present no-one can predict whether the illness is the mild or the serious form. There is ONE unconfirmed report from a Chinese research institute that has suggested the virus MAY have two forms - the mild and the serious. That suggestion will undoubtedly be researched bumpy other institutes when time permits since the mild form could form the basis for a vaccine........

Sadly, the fibrosis caused in the lungs is often permanent and reduces the ability of the lungs to provide the oxygen required for life. In theory, one can survive reasonably on the equivalent surface area of one lung, but if the pneumonia/fibrosis reduces the available surface area below that there is little that can e done if high % oxygen cannot suffice.

In other words, STAY AT HOME AND STAY ISOLATED. That is by far the best route forward, but it may be required for several months....


----------



## aldra

Still running a fever

Definitely not feeling good , tomorrow I’m due to take my weekly dose of methotrexate and I must admit I’m not keen on taking it

Eating very little now, mostly just sleeping 

Within an hour of getting up I’m exhausted 

I’m 100% sure I haven’t got corona or albert would surely have developed symptoms by now

No cough or breathlessness just a fever , but that fever is enough to prevent me getting any meaningful diagnoses or treatment 

I wonder how long I need to run a fever before it’s decided it is in fact due to an infection and would benefit from treatment 

But with a raised temp I can’t see anyone and tests to discover the cause are unlikely 

As is treatment to deal with it 

Im thinking of putting the immune suppressants on hold to give me a fighting chance to overcome whatever is causing my prolonged fever, as apart from sleeping constantly I can’t think of a way to self diagnose and self treat myself 

I feel shattered with the whole experience , I’ve now had a fever for 8 days , ever since my TIA, and of course I haven’t seen the stroke consultant as I have a fever , can’t see a doctor as I have a fever, can’t get any blood or urine tests as I have a fever 

I may need a course of antibiotics but not sure how anyone would know that 

Albert has made a lovely lamb dinner but I won’t be able to eat it, I may try a slice of toast later or maybe not bother , absolutely no appetite 

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

What you are telling us sounds exactly what Heike had last month, but she is a long way from you.
As she also has an allergy, tree fever she calls it, she was also _bunged up _ and for that reason had a course of cortisone.
She was tired all the time, slept most of the day, no appetite, no energy and a temperature, the doctor took blood and swabs and pronounced it was flu.
It took a month for her to recover, hope it doesn't take you that long. I don´t think you had the flu jab did you ?


----------



## jiwawa

Do you have a 'named' nurse Sandra that you could phone and ask advice from? About coming off your meds, and also about the fever in general?


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> Still running a fever
> 
> Definitely not feeling good , tomorrow I'm due to take my weekly dose of methotrexate and I must admit I'm not keen on taking it
> 
> Eating very little now, mostly just sleeping
> 
> Within an hour of getting up I'm exhausted
> 
> I'm 100% sure I haven't got corona or albert would surely have developed symptoms by now
> 
> No cough or breathlessness just a fever , but that fever is enough to prevent me getting any meaningful diagnoses or treatment
> 
> I wonder how long I need to run a fever before it's decided it is in fact due to an infection and would benefit from treatment
> 
> But with a raised temp I can't see anyone and tests to discover the cause are unlikely
> 
> As is treatment to deal with it
> 
> Im thinking of putting the immune suppressants on hold to give me a fighting chance to overcome whatever is causing my prolonged fever, as apart from sleeping constantly I can't think of a way to self diagnose and self treat myself
> 
> I feel shattered with the whole experience , I've now had a fever for 8 days , ever since my TIA, and of course I haven't seen the stroke consultant as I have a fever , can't see a doctor as I have a fever, can't get any blood or urine tests as I have a fever
> 
> I may need a course of antibiotics but not sure how anyone would know that
> 
> Albert has made a lovely lamb dinner but I won't be able to eat it, I may try a slice of toast later or maybe not bother , absolutely no appetite
> 
> Sandra


Methotrexate (oral) stays in your system for 55 hours so if weekly, you only effectively have any circulating for 2.3 days. Missing a dose has never caused Lesley any problems and indeed one of the FAQ asks precisely whether one CAN miss a week's dose, and the answer is that "it's unlikely that a disease flare up would occur from missing one week".

Perhaps, your most sensible advice would be to ignore the 111 route and ring up to speak with YOUR GP, explaining exactly what you have put so clearly here.

It could be that you do have in underlying infection, who knows where.... perhaps a UTI, perhaps in your gut, perhaps a muscle or bone although those two would normally make their presence felt by pain.

You need to speak to your GP, not be put off by the receptionist but actually explain to your Doctor, who KNOWS that you do not make things up or exaggerate. Your background makes you totally trustworthy as regards your signs and symptoms.

The above medical advice did of course come from HTMBO who would not give you duff advice, she has missed a week on methotrexate without any ill effects.

I wish you well, presumably the paracetamol packet is being used to the maximum of 4g per day for an adult ?

.


----------



## barryd

Sandra call your GP and make an appointment. They should be able to do a video link with you. Thats what they did for me. Can you take your temperature? If not see if they will sort you out with a thermometer. If you can focus a GP who knows you over ten - fifteen minutes via a video link you might at least get somewhere and maybe some antibiotics if you need them. I dont think they are particularly busy. Well they are not here. I Got both my appointments within an hour or two of calling.


----------



## aldra

Yes I have had the flu vaccine Jan, every year as I’m in the at risk group

If one can have the flu without any cold symptoms then that could well be what I have

No runny nose , cough, etc , just a relentless fever

The only reason I think it may be a urine infection is that prior to commencing the methotrexate they tested my urine , found it had protein in it and gave me a course of antibiotics prior to commencing it , apart from my urine smelling like vegetables and being frothy I had no other symptoms 

Ive lost my sense of smell and taste although it’s slowly coming back

Im more worried about Albert , have I passed anything to him?

I’ve been unwell for 8 days, so when would we know if he’s got anything ?

It’s difficult to know with all the different symptoms that people say can be symptoms of corona 

I’ll speak to the GP tomorrow , miss this week of methotrexate and take it from there

No I’m going back to bed , I’ve been up three hours and it’s enough 

Sandra


----------



## aldra

My temp is 38.5 

Persistent low grade raised temp Barry 

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

You need to speak with your Doc, one thing to question is that you said you have lost your sense of smell, that is now being linked with CV19 as a frequently reported symptom....

Speak to your GP they can supply antibiotics via prescription straight to a nominated pharmacy so it only needs collecting and both of you are VULNERABLE so it should be possible to have it delivered.

Please speak to your GP and let us know if you are willing....


----------



## barryd

Call them in the morning Sandra!!!! Sleep well and I hope you feel better soon but please call them.


----------



## patp

Oh, Sandra! Do hope you manage to get hold of the doctor. How is Albert at being forceful? Chris is rubbish so if I am ill I have to be my own advocate. Sometimes passing the phone over to someone who can describe your symptoms has the effect of persuading people that you are not exaggerating.


----------



## barryd

Any update?


----------



## Penquin

barryd said:


> Any update?


How about your status too ?


----------



## aldra

The doctor will phone me later 

Still have a raised temp, keep thinking I’ll wake up and it will be gone 

Sandra


----------



## barryd

I have given you a lick for responding, not cos you have a raised temp. Just sayin 

Im fine Dave thanks, well on the mend now I think. My normally exceptionally pretty face is a bit of a mess but Im still alive so every cloud an all that.


----------



## Penquin

Glad to hear it Barry, the face may well be even more attractive with a rugged look....

Just sayin' like (note LIKE not LICK 'cos that is not my scene...... 🤣 )


----------



## JanHank

Facebook messenger is a good way to keep your eye on people >


----------



## raynipper

Facebook Messenger buggered up my laptop while in holiday two years ago and I refuse to have anything to do with it since. 

Ray.


----------



## JanHank

raynipper said:


> Facebook Messenger buggered up my laptop while in holiday two years ago and I refuse to have anything to do with it since.
> 
> Ray.


Now however could it do that Raymond, you must be the only person it´s done that to.


----------



## raynipper

I don't care but I'm not giving it a second chance. Stuff em.

Ray.


----------



## aldra

Spoke to the GP and told her I’m not prepared to take this weeks dose of methotrexate whilst I’m feeling so unwell 

They have a Covid clinic and she’s arranging for them to see me, they will phone back with an appointment 

I said I really need them to identify the source of the the high temp and if it’s not covid then treat it because I cant fight it off and I’m becoming quite weak and unwell with it 

No longer eating more than a slice of toast , if that a day , just want to stay in bed and sleep I’m so exhausted with it 

So hopefully they can get to the bottom of it and I can start to feel better 

I’ll let you know how it goes 

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

Sandra,

I am glad that you have managed to speak and obviously hope that things progress so that you can begin the road to recovery. It may take a while but we are all rooting for you to get better rapidly.

If you can now only manage a slice of toast a day, my mind goes back to that roast lamb dinner - gosh I do wish I was closer but sadly it might be cold by the time I got there.... Ask Albert to look after it for you for when you ARE feeling more like it. 😊


----------



## patp

Could you manage some chicken soup Sandra? Hope the medics sort something out soon for you!


----------



## barryd

Hope they get to see you soon Sandra. Keep drinking plenty of fluids and eat what you can. I guess if your body wants to sleep then you should sleep. Keep us posted and wishing you a speedy recovery.


----------



## Drew

raynipper said:


> Facebook Messenger buggered up my laptop while in holiday two years ago and I refuse to have anything to do with it since.
> 
> Ray.


Ray,

Every single thing bar yourself messes up your computers.


----------



## raynipper

Glad you agree Drew.

Ray.


----------



## jiwawa

Hope the docs see you soon Sandra. It's a worry when it goes on, especially in this climate.


----------



## barryd

Any updates?


----------



## Penquin

OK here is a question for the wider audience that I hope reads this.

We have not heard anything back from Sandra since she wrote that she was expecting a call from the special CoVid19 clinic and some of us are becoming concerned.

I have sent her a PM but no reply - which could simply mean that she has not seen it or she is not using MHF at the present time as she has done at this time of the year before.

I know that several of our members have visited her at home in the past - she has always been very welcoming, so my question to everyone is

Does anyone have a phone number for her ? Please do NOT POST ON HERE but send only via Personal/Private Messages or email. I would be keen to ring her and would be happy to post an update IF SHE IS WILLING but only IF.

I hope that someone on here can help, please but by personal message only NOT on here.....


----------



## patp

Holding my breath.....


----------



## patp

There is a discussion on Radio 2, now, about one of the symptoms of Coronovirus being loss of smell. I think I am right in saying that Sandra was complaining of such a symptom. Also her lethargy would be another symptom. 

Rooting for you Sandra that it is all a false alarm.


----------



## barryd

Spoke to Albert just now. Sounds like Sandra is quite poorly. they managed to get an appointment at the Covid clinic at 10:30pm on Monday night but amazingly they did not test her for Covid but just tested her for a urine infection which tested positive so Antibiotics were prescribed which they could not get or start until yesterday but she is quite poorly by the sound of it. Albert is going to get back to the doctors tomorrow if there is no improvement.

Passed on all our best wishes and ill give him a day or two and call him again if I dont hear anything.

Get well soon Sandra.


----------



## patp

Thanks so much Barry. Like you, I am a bit surprised that she hasn't been tested for Covid 19. Of course the urine infection is very debilitating and needs treating. Let's hope that they are right.


----------



## JanHank

Urine infections can cause a lot of trouble, let´s hope the antibiotics soon knock it on the head and thats all it is.


Get well soon Sandra.


----------



## barryd

Seems a bit daft to be actually at the Covid clinic and not have the test. Still it does look like its a bad urine infection. I remember my mum having one and being hospitalised.


----------



## jiwawa

Thanks for that Barry.

Rooting for you Sandra!


----------



## Penquin

Thanks for that update, like you and others I am surprised she was not tested for CoVid19 but if the antibiotics don't show much improvement after 48 hours I hope that they will think further inside the box.

Obviously I hope that she will be feeling better after the course starts and wish her well for the future.

She is a very special lady to very many of us on here, thanks for contacting her.


----------



## dghr272

Hope whatever is troubling Sandra gets cleared up PDQ.

I’m not surprised they didn’t test her, the whole testing saga is a mess. My good neighbour was a treatment room nurse before being redeployed, some of the stories would make the hairs on your neck stand on edge.

In (NI) we had a test centre set up in Derry, it couldn’t open on its planned day due to staff shortages.

Terry


----------



## HermanHymer

I was also worrying about Sandra's silence. (They are deafening, aren't they?) I whatsapped Albert and saw he'd read it. He didnt reply so I assumed he was busy taking care of her. Thanks Barry I was about to try again this morning. Strongs, Sandra!!!


----------



## patp

Really worried now


----------



## HermanHymer

Albert replied to me this morning. Said Sandra would contact me when she was feeling better but didnt say anything about her condition. Dont know if her recovery was happening or whether he thought it propitious to say nothing, so worrying too. I'll give it a pause and maybe contact again on the morning. By the time she got to doc, infection must have got quite a grip, so it would take a minimum 5 days on antibiotics to show any meaningful improvement.

In hindsight, for the benefit and knowledge of anyone else who may end up down that path, taking simple urine sample to the surgery and having a stick dipped in it would have shown in 2 mins if there was UTI or not.

But another thing to remember when you're ill your decision making skills are severely impaired and a carer is better placed to take the initiative.


----------



## patp

Good points Viv. I think we tend to go into denial first and then, later, we are too sick to be rational.


----------



## barryd

I texted Albert just now, dont want to keep hassling them and he replied straight away. Not much change, just carrying on with the medication.


----------



## jiwawa

That's great news Barry - well, sort of!

Thanks very much.


----------



## Penquin

Thanks Barry, glad to hear it, hopefully she will begin to feel better soon if the antibiotics are the right ones....


----------



## HermanHymer

He told me the same. She got 7 days course of ab's and its only 3 or 4 so its early days yet. Community nurse checked her out and she also has a chest infection. Double whammy! Getting a note by post to go for an xray. May take a little while to see improvement but at least they're on it. Hopefully antibiotics broad spectrum to knock out both. Fingers crossed she'll improve day by day.


----------



## jiwawa

Has anyone heard anything recently about Sandra? Her ABs are probably finished by now. I do hope she's improving.


----------



## barryd

Not heard anything and I dont like to keep pestering Albert really.


----------



## jiwawa

No, I understand that Barry. I've sent her a couple of emails over the period of her illness but heard nothing. It's a worry.


----------



## patp

It is a worry. Of course this site might not be first on their list of favourites


----------



## Penquin

No response to me either, as has been said, a worry but it would wrong to keep pestering her, although if ONE person gave Albert a ring, that is not really pestering her but simply showing the concern that all of us have. Difficult one to know what to do for the best, sadly Albert has hardly ever used this, it is a Sandra only forum, I am not sure that he is overconfident in modern technology as he has never had the need for it. We all HOPE that she is well and that the antibiotics have sorted things out. BUT my own daughter is still running a high temperature after more than two weeks and now the whole house is isolated and several staff are off very unwell so it may not be as rapid a recovery even if it is CV-19 as my daughter's PROBABLY is, but of course no testing.......


----------



## raynipper

We have a friend who has just undergone a triple heart and new valve opp and wife who can't visit is snowed under with enquiries as to his progress. So much so she is now leaving the answerphone on and only calls back those close enough that need to know.

Ray.


----------



## HermanHymer

I sent Albert a WhatsApp this afternoon but it hasn't been read. As you say, I am worrying too. Albert doesn't live with the phone glued to his ear but he does keep it close by as the family does contact them on that mobile number.


----------



## HermanHymer

Ok my message read but no reply.


----------



## Penquin

HermanHymer said:


> Ok my message read but no reply.


Sadly, maybe that is significant in that responding to WhatsApp is not very complex. It may well be that Sandra wants to totally isolate hereself - she has before during the period before Easter, but usually she confirms that.

Hopefully we will hear back from her or from Albert soon to reassure us in these very troubled times. 😷


----------



## barryd

If Viv has sent a message then perhaps we should wait for a reply to that. Albert responded last time. I could call him tomorrow if no response today perhaps.


----------



## barryd

Activity shows online yesterday. Could be an auto login or maybe Sandra has been able to view but not well enough to post.


----------



## HermanHymer

Albert replied she's very weak but showing a slow improvement. 

Sandra if you can see this, we're missing your cheeky posts, and wishing you 100% well in short order. Like Boris, you're a feisty opponent for any nasties. Hit em on the head we cant wait yo have you back in the rough and tumble of MHF debates.


----------



## barryd

Yes best wishes Sandra. Post something. even if its just a  or a  or even if its just a F*** off and leave me alone!


----------



## Penquin

HermanHymer said:


> Albert replied she's very weak but showing a slow improvement.
> 
> Sandra if you can see this, we're missing your cheeky posts, and wishing you 100% well in short order. Like Boris, you're a feisty opponent for any nasties. Hit em on the head we cant wait yo have you back in the rough and tumble of MHF debates.


BUT, unlike Boris, Sandra sticks to what she has said. I agree that we are missing her posts, cheeky or not, in simple words;

👍👍👍GET WELL SOON, PLEASE.👍👍👍👍

.


----------



## erneboy

Glad to hear she's on the up.


----------



## JanHank

erneboy said:


> Glad to hear she's on the up.


Me too as well also.

My trip to the UK didn't work out this year, but hopefully next year I can come and tell you face to face your a mad bird >.

Get well soon.


----------



## aldra

Hi everyone

Missed you all,

As I don’t have WIFI in the ,bedroom,Albert has set up MYFI 

Really still feeling very weak, but have had a few spoonful of boiled egg today

Went down stairs yesterday day to say hi, took me over an hour and in the end young Albert had to come round to virtually carry me to the chair 

How people manage without a couple of Alberts young and old I’ll never know

I’m to attend the hospital next week for a chest X Ray

I’ve really been unwell and it seems to have taken the stuffing out of me

Now who was it that suggested MHF was not the best on line forum?

Wash your mouth out girl, glad to see you have got home safely

Love to all of you, stay safe

It’s a no win solution , covid 19 or any other infection stay isolated, stay alive because there is only a remote chance someone will actually see you to diagnose and treat it 

In my case my daughter is the Gtr Mc chief officer for children, her co worker for adults arranged for the community team to visit and access me, I feel sure that without the antibiotics the urine infection would have finished me off and I was fighting a losing battle 

Yes for all our front line Health workers a huge cheer, but I think the roll of the gps in this crisis in many areas need to assessed

It seems to have been left to our community health workers to foot the hands on visits 

I wonder how may have died from other than corona virus whilst fighting a treatable infection in their own home

They just failed to get it diagnosed

Once again thanks to all of you good friends out there

Sandra


----------



## barryd

Good to hear from you. Sounds bloody awful. Its especially scary getting seriously ill with something other than Covid 19 right now I guess as you just dont know what help you will get but it seems your getting it so fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.


----------



## raynipper

barryd said:


> Good to hear from you. Sounds bloody awful. Its especially scary getting seriously ill with something other than Covid 19 right now I guess as you just dont know what help you will get but it seems your getting it so fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.


Like wot E said.

Ray. XXX


----------



## erneboy

Glad you able to post Sandra.


----------



## aldra

Tried yesterday ernest but the effort in getting downstairs proved too much 

Forgot I have MIFI ,which Alberts set up,so can post from my bed

Stay safe

Sandra


----------



## dghr272

Good to hear from you girl.

Don’t push yourself too hard Sandra, small forward steps are best.

Get well soon.

Terry


----------



## jiwawa

Great to see you back Sandra!! But, as said, take it VERY easy.


----------



## Penquin

What a lovely surprise Sandra, really good to hear from you, ALL THREE OF US. (including Bob) are really pleased that you have been able get back on here and reassure us all, best wishes

Agree with you about the tole of GP's at present, they seem to be on the phone only and even then seem to assume CV19 before thinking of anything else - surely that is one of the most fundamental things to be trained NOT to do - never ASS U ME. (I won't explain my typing)

Sadly, testing is the major flaw in this whole crisis, firstly done, then changed to not done, promises made which have failed to be achieved and after three weeks of headline problems they can still only test 14,000 a day c/w Germany 250,000. That needs to be investigated and blame attributed so it NEVER happens again....

Key thing now is for you to keep getting better, but you'd never keep up a with a couple of young Alberts would you ? 😂😂🤷🏼


----------



## patp

Oh my goodness it is so good to hear from you Sandra! Please don't leave us in suspenders like that again.

I so agree with the comments about being sick with something other than Covid 19. It is such a worry. Chris has been fighting something we know not what. He started coughing and was breathless. Then he felt very light headed and weak. Still not right but he did not get worse so we are watching and waiting. He is due an appointment with the consultant but I doubt that will happen as she is in the Respiratory field. I phoned and they said she may do a telephone consultation at some stage.

Look after yourself, Sandra. Have you got one of those dumb waiters in your house? No not either of the Alberts!


----------



## barryd

patp said:


> Oh my goodness it is so good to hear from you Sandra! Please don't leave us in suspenders like that again.
> 
> I so agree with the comments about being sick with something other than Covid 19. It is such a worry. Chris has been fighting something we know not what. He started coughing and was breathless. Then he felt very light headed and weak. Still not right but he did not get worse so we are watching and waiting. He is due an appointment with the consultant but I doubt that will happen as she is in the Respiratory field. I phoned and they said she may do a telephone consultation at some stage.
> 
> Look after yourself, Sandra. Have you got one of those dumb waiters in your house? No not either of the Alberts!


They should be able to do a video consultation as well if it helps. I had one a couple of weeks or so ago. you need a smart phone. They just send a text, you tap on it and up comes the GP / consultant. you can see him and he can see you.


----------



## aldra

Thinking of you both Pat

I don’t think there is much to be done apart from plenty of fluids in and out, fresh air and rest

Love
Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

Like Garfield, "I'm so happy I could just ****!" You've made my day. I haven't been able to get started on sewing all week on account of sheer anxiety, made worse by the fact that my BFF's husband died on Monday in SA (not the virus, emphysema). Get stronger every day. Have some soldiers with your boiled egg tomorrow! Big hugs. Lots of love to you and big little A and little big A. Strongs for your loved ones out in the big nasty world!


----------



## aldra

It must be so hard viv knowing you can’t get to your best friends side 

You are both so far away from each other

Our thoughts are with you , stay strong, stay safe

Young Albert sends his love to you

He’s been such a blessing during this crisis 

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

Thank you Sandra. We're keeping in touch on WhatsApp. Her son and his wife were made redundant from their jobs in Namibia and so had just come home. So at least he saw his father before the end and they are now home supporting Mum SA is in total lockdown too. Even stricter than here. I had to let a UK visitor move into my house. His flight back to UK after visiting his 'divorced kids' was cancelled and he ended up having nowhere to stay just hours before the lockdown. Now the SA lockdown has been extended to end April.


----------



## aldra

Another stupid fall at 2am:frown2:

My ankles gave way but fortunately I half managed to fall on the bed, didn’t do much for Albert though>

I do believe I’m feeling better today, I’ll find some ankle supports tomorrow and try again

It’s Easter Saturday and I have 16 Easter eggs lined up, can’t deliver them so I guess I’ll just have to eat them 

Just a shame I’m not a chocolate fan 

The kids decided not buy them this year with the lockdown but I’d already bought mine

Just check I’m in one piece in the morning and take it from there :grin2:

I’m hoping to get downstairs

Sandra


----------



## barryd

Not sure you should be jumping on top of Albert in the early hours of the morning in your condition! 

Hope your ok. Glad it sounds like your on the mend.


----------



## HermanHymer

There's no bug that can keep Sandra down for long. Lanky spirit! How's Shadow taking all this. You are his raison d'etre. I bet he hasnt left your side! Take care on those stairs!!!!!


----------



## bilbaoman

Take care 1 in 200 falls result in hip breakage among us more mature people so dont use up any more of your lives


----------



## aldra

Having scarcely eaten for a few weeks I thought I’d do a Marilyn Munro entrance on Easter Sunday :angel12:

Unforfunately the two key elements seem also missing :frown2:

So maybe I’ll settle for Minnie Mouse>

Shadows more concerned with whatever people food I’m trying to eat, or more importantly not eating

I really need to sort out restarting the methotrexate tablets so I’ll leave a message at the clinic today, hopefully get a blood test on the same day as the chest XRay

I think Alberts getting a bit fed up with the role of carer now so hopefully I’m on the up and up

Sandra


----------



## dghr272

Take care Sandra, if you don’t steady up perhaps consider a zimmer until you get strength.

Yeah I know it’s a pain in the you know what........BUT don’t let pride come before a fall, a broken bone is the last thing you need.

Best wishes
Terry


----------



## Penquin

If you have an excess of Easter Eggs (and for me 1 is an excess), this recipe was just on Saturday Morning Kitchen;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/chocolate_martini_45543

Chocolate Martini.......

But as he just said "Drink wine, because no good story ever started with a salad!"

Keep well, Sandra, do be careful and make sure Albert is wherever you might fall if he is comfortable to land on......

Or on second thoughts, take a few minutes to really make sure that you are ready with something to hold for steadiness, a Zimmer frame _pro tem_ could well give you the reassurance until you are back at you more normal state and are eating more than enough to keep a fly alive......

We are all thinking of both of you and look forward to progress reports.

.


----------



## jiwawa

So glad to hear the old Sandra coming back! As said, please consider a stabilising aid till you don't need it; FAR better to be safe than sorry.



Penquin said:


> If you have an excess of Easter Eggs (and for me 1 is an excess), this recipe was just on Saturday Morning Kitchen;
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/chocolate_martini_45543
> 
> Chocolate Martini.......
> 
> *But as he just said "Drink wine, because no good story ever started with a salad!"*


I love it!!!


----------



## coppo

Just heard you've been ill Sandra, the very best of wishes to you and Albert, get well soon, hope the recovery goes well.

Just started my old computer up, took 2 hours to get it warmed up, its the only device which I can get on here with, phone and tablet it doesn't recognise any details and I cant recall or get on with any previous passwords.

Best wishes.

Paul and Caroline.


----------



## aldra

Call from the practise nurse to see if Albert and I wanted to go on the ....Do not resuscitate list

A week or so earlier I’d have been asking to go on the euthanasia list I felt so poorly 

So they missed the boat this time round >

I’m not going to attend for a chest XRay ,going nowhere near the hospital until it’s necessary , I have the X Ray forms ready just in case things take a turn for the worse

Just being able to drink is such a blessing

Stay safe, stay well all of you

Sandra


----------



## patp

aldra said:


> Call from the practise nurse to see if Albert and I wanted to go on the ....Do not resuscitate list
> 
> A week or so earlier I'd have been asking to go on the euthanasia list I felt so poorly
> 
> So they missed the boat this time round >
> 
> I'm not going to attend for a chest XRay ,going nowhere near the hospital until it's necessary , I have the X Ray forms ready just in case things take a turn for the worse
> 
> Just being able to drink is such a blessing
> 
> Stay safe, stay well all of you
> 
> Sandra


What!? How can they bring themselves to do that?! Yes, ask the question when you have been admitted with a life limiting illness, but to cold call people on such a sensitive subject is awful!


----------



## aldra

Well I guess they are freeing up beds in advance

And maybe by the time you are admitted it’s a bit too late to be capable of making such a decision 

I’m not sure it was cold calling, more to update existing care plans?

As I said a couple of weeks ago my answer would have been much different

But I suppose if put another way, “we have one bed, should we offer it to you ,your daughter or grandchild?“

The answers pretty straightforward and I guess it doesn’t really matter whose daughter or grandchild it is

Sandra


----------



## patp

Oh, I can see the logic, Sandra but there is a time and place for these conversations on over the phone is not one of them


----------



## aldra

Pat, face to face is a thing of the past

It’s over the phone, that’s if you are lucky, or nothing 

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

A practical if insensitive interaction. But when one takes oneself out of the equation it would be very sensible to know which old bullets want to enjoy more years if they can and which ones arent bothered. Bit of a waste to provide services to unwilling aged if younger folk could better use the care. Cant wait for face to face the answers could be needed sooner rather than later.🤨


----------



## Penquin

My son- in-law is a hosptal manager down South.... they have for the last few years had trouble finding free beds for admissions - as do many others have and it has been reported on the media frequently as an example of how under funded the Care system is...., Doctors could not and would not discharge patients as there was no care package in place - quite correctly IMO.

Suddenly, Consultants are going round the hospital discharging everyone - in his hospital they suddenly went from a handful of beds free to 230. He has NEVER known that sort of available space - obviously to allow CoVid patients to be admitted.

Isn't it amazing how this can happen ? Firstly to see that number of free beds and secondly to see that number of Consultants going around doing that.... Presumably care packages have suddenly been put together, or they have decided that discharge has a higher priority..... I suspect the latter.

DNR's have been in the news a lot more recently, various Trusts have been criticised for applying such things WITHOUT family consultation or involvement. There is a definite route that has to be followed before "DNR" is put onto the Health records for anyone. If it is NOT followed the notice can be challenged and medical staff are not permitted to follow it.

MrsW and I have discussed whether we would want it after eg being ventilated as the success rate post ventilator is very poor, particularly if you have age, fitness, body mass, underlying conditions etc. against you. But we do not have DNR on our records.


----------



## patp

Interesting, Dave, that people can now be discharged so readily. I wonder if the volunteer base, currently being built, is going to be utilised?

On the subject of dnr, I am not against it and feel the same way as you about post ventilator life or any poor quality of life scenario. It is how the subject is handled that bothers me. Having worked in the veterinary world for many years we would not dream of broaching such a subject over the phone unless it was an emergency. Some people find even the gentlest of hints immensely distressing. Others, like myself, think of it as part of life to consider such things. Many a client has been lost, by inexperienced vets, for introducing euthanasia into the care package under consideration for a very poorly pet.


----------



## jiwawa

patp said:


> Oh, I can see the logic, Sandra but there is a time and place for these conversations on over the phone is not one of them


And I hope we've all had that conversation with our loved ones. Later on could be too late. 


Penquin said:


> MrsW and I have discussed whether we would want it after eg being ventilated as the success rate post ventilator is very poor, particularly if you have age, fitness, body mass, underlying conditions etc. against you. But we do not have DNR on our records.


I feel DNR would be an alternative to going on ventilation, for me anyway. The post-ventilator prognosis is very poor for someone of my age and I would hate to use up a ventilator to end up having a very curtailed life. I'd rather go out on a high.


----------



## aldra

I guess we would all prefer to “ go out on a high” Jean

Problem is when you are gasping for air in your lungs is that considered “the high”?

Many elderly do receive oxygen therapy and do recover from CoVid19 

It would be good to know the recovery rate and not only the death rate per day

Of course without testing who knows

An outbreak of flu will decimate numbers in a care home, how much more so an outbreak of CoVid19,basically left to do its thing

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

No, I was thinking of my life as it is now - or was, before CV! All the travelling I've done, the places I've enjoyed... I would hate to be stuck in the house gasping for breath, unable to go out n do things.

Obviously if they told me I was going to be as fit as a fiddle after being on a ventilator then I'd go for it! But the chances are low.


----------



## aldra

The question was as I recall it, “ in the event of contracting corvid19 would you prefer to be left at home rather than hospitalised”

Now I’d prefer to be left at home with oxygen therapy available if required and fluid input maintained

Clearly that was not included in the question

I’m not sure what % of elderly recover from Corvid19 and go on to live a meaningful quality of life

Without testing we will never know

As I asked the Gp when I could neither eat or drink, I know the advice, self isolate for 8 days but how many times is that repeated?, this the third time you have informed me the policy is to self isolate for 8 days

I know many gps in many areas are doing a sterling job, others, ours included, seem to be depending on our health workers to do their job for them 

Definitely a business model

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

My stepson and I had to face the decision of whether to continue treatment or recognise that there was no further hope for recovery when my husband was in ICU in 2018. It was a relatively clear decision, knowing full well the doctors in charge of his treatment had done everything possible. It was comforting to know that he would have to endure no unnecessary further interventions and he was supported to pass his last two days free of pain and discomfort. If there was any residual concern, it evaporated when I saw the itemised bills for every procedure and test that had been done. I hope and pray a decision on a covid-19 patient in ICU would be as clear cut.


----------



## Penquin

We had a similar decision with my late mother in law. We were away in Yorkshire when this happened in Devon.......

We received a call from the ambulance service (totally unofficially) that the controller had just asked our daughter (also a Responder like us) to go to an address in our village - our daughter then told them 'that's my Nana". 

She responded anyway, broke her way in and found her Nana unconscious, not breathing and no pulse inside the front door. The ambulance service had been called by her carer who saw her collapse.

My daughter resuscitated her and delivered her with a pulse and breathing to A&E. She was admitted and checked, probable spinal injury after fall.....

We were asked by phone if we wished for more Resus and said no, advised my one of our daughter's (the GP) who had driven at speed to the hospital from Southampton. She was the one who found out about the spinal injury and contacted us.....

DNR was the agreed outcome and a policy to keep her confortable - she survived 6 hours and faded away gradually and without any apparent stress.

Difficult decision, but easy for us at the time. The daughter that had resuscitated her was in hotel agreement as was her GP sister and our son who has driven a 1h 15min journey in 40 minutes...... we don't think he saw any Police on the way......

So, at times such decisions are straightforward but not always and not for anyone without adequate knowledge......


----------



## patp

I did the same for both my parents. If they survived their final illness they would not have a good quality of life and I fulfilled their expressed wishes.
My dad had a very bad stroke and so it was easy. Everyone in the resus room was in agreement.

With my mum it was more complicated. The GP had referred her for something that he had found during an examination of her abdomen. She collapsed before the referral date and was blue lighted in to urgent care. It was discovered that she had a perforated bowel. It was explained that she would not survive surgery and that she was being poisoned by the contents of her bowel. We understood, passed on her wishes of dnr, and waited for them to make her comfortable so that I could sit with her. A nurse appeared with some syringes containing drugs and started to prepare to administer them. When I enquired what they were she explained that they were antibiotics. I explained the situation and she left the room. A doctor appeared and asked me to leave the room. When I was allowed back in it was to sit with my mother until she passed. 

Whilst making my mother comfortable another nurse had commented to me "you would not do it to a dog would you?". I had agreed because I thought my wishes (and those of my unconscious mother) were being carried out. It occurred to me, later, that a doctor had over ruled us and was continuing to treat her. The nurse with the syringes had gone, I assume, to find another doctor to cancel the treatment and fulfil our wishes.

Not everyone would know to argue their loved ones case. My brother, when visiting his wife undergoing treatment for stage 4 breast cancer, had no idea that she was dying. It came as a total shock to him. He is in the States. I have heard of other cases, in the private sector, where the subject is not broached to loved ones and so people in terminal decline are treated long past the point where, in my opinion, withdrawal of treatment should be discussed.


----------



## aldra

My care plan arrived today

My named GP retired over two years ago from the practise

Although I have opted for cardiac resuscitation ( apparently) I have opted only for treatment in my own home, not to be hospitalised

What a shambles 

Sandra


----------



## patp

As you say, Sandra, a shambles.

Not sure if you saw Question Time last night? It was the general consensus that the care system is a complete mess. The trouble is that the people who need it the most have the least energy to fight for it.


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> My care plan arrived today
> 
> My named GP retired over two years ago from the practise
> 
> Although I have opted for cardiac resuscitation ( apparently) I have opted only for treatment in my own home, not to be hospitalised
> 
> What a shambles
> 
> Sandra


I am not sure why or how this has been done. Were you seeking such a thing ? If so, surely it's contentsvwoukd have been discussed and agreed with you and Albert as nok before it was produced ?

If your named GP retired two years ago,misvit an old document that has suddenly surfaced for some bureaucratic reason ?

Do you agree with it ? If not then register your disagreement URGENTLY. It certainly seems odd to me (putting it politely), but maybe your version is nearer the truth......

shambles.....

I would want to know who initiated it, produced it in an unworkable form using incorrect information.

It is possible that your named GP may be the person that you first registered with and he may still be "on the books" as he is a Partner in the practice.....

But odd to say the least.


----------



## jiwawa

aldra said:


> My care plan arrived today
> 
> My named GP retired over two years ago from the practise
> 
> Although I have opted for cardiac resuscitation ( apparently) I have opted only for treatment in my own home, not to be hospitalised
> 
> What a shambles
> 
> Sandra


The fact that you say 'apparently', and call it a shambles would indicate that it might be an old set of instructions (resuscitation) combined with new (from whoever, not to be hospitalised).

I'd definitely call them to clarify, and change what you want to change.


----------



## aldra

Have already requested a call from the nurse practitioner
She phoned us last weekto update care plan, re our wishes re the corona virus 

Alberts plan shows he wishes to have hospital treatment and mine shows I don’t

We haven’t signed anything to verify the care plan

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

We have 2 sets of documents that are kept in the home in the hospital suitcase, one is a patientenverfügung, translated _ living will_ (not a testament) giving instructions of what should happen in such cases the other is a Vollmacht, _ Power of attorney_ for someone you name to have your wishes carried out (that reminds me I haven´t found a replacement yet). In both documents there are many questions for different circumstances to answer, this way you are in full control of what your wishes are.


----------



## aldra

I’m not sure how valid a GPS care plan is 

Is it merely advisory?

I can’t really see how decisions can be made in advance of a given situation, if oxygen therapy could save life then opting for no hospital treatment in advance we obviously lesson chances of recovery in the event of contacting CoVid19 and requiring oxygen as opposed to incubation 

Seems to me there is a rush to ensure care plans are “ up to date” which is resulting in a mixture of 10 year old information and hastily contrived new

Even consultants letters seem to be ignored and even I am not sure what new drugs are recommended

I have never seen the stroke consultant due to my fever, he telephoned then wrote the equivalent of war and peace on my condition, stating what tests I require when the lockdown ends

Have not been contacted by the rheumatology team and therefore have not restarted methotrexate even though I have left messages

I’m not sure what my weight and BP recorded over 5 years ago is relevant on today’s record

All in all I’m not over confident that my medical records are in any way up to date

Alberts last eye appointment recorded that he needed urgent laser treatment on his left eye, ( glaucoma)following it up he found no action had been taken nor recorded and the consultants secectary is supposed to be following it up urgently

Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence does it?

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

Sad to hear that Sandra and I would agree that it does not inspire confidence, but it may well be a reflection of the "Out of sight, out of mind" philosophy that can be found when people have too great a work load.....

It does not make it acceptable, but sadly probably inevitable.

All you can do is send written requests to each specific person requesting an update asap and that the actions already raised be carried out if at all possible, failure to do some of those things could have life-changing consequences (a phrase that is worth including). As you are well aware, if it is in writing it carries considerable weight, if not, then it has not happened (as Lesley said from her nursing practice).

At present, I suspect everyone's thoughts are on the virus and other things have been set to one side. It could be that even the rheumatology specialists are now operating ventilators as most Drs have been moved and given the extra training required for such things - not desirable but understandable.... 😢


----------



## raynipper

Another motorhome (RV) friend died of the virus last night. Thats two we know.

Ray.


----------



## Penquin

@Ray 😢

There is no button that we can press to exhibit "sorrow"


----------



## jiwawa

raynipper said:


> Another motorhome (RV) friend died of the virus last night. Thats two we know.
> 
> Ray.


So sorry to hear that Ray. Sadly, this will come more and more to our door.


----------



## aldra

Sad to hear that Ray

It’s taking me a long time to recover , Albert thinks I had corvid19, I can’t imagine I did if he didn’t get it, he was under the weather for a few days

Neither of us had breathing difficulties

Sandra


----------



## erneboy

Sorry to hear that Ray.


----------



## Penquin

Sandra, I am with Albert in that, he may well have had it even milder,bthank heavens, but when we struggled to get hold of you, that was my belief as expressed in a PM to Barry....

But, hopefully, it is behind you now, just don't go drinking out of a wet glass....


----------



## aldra

Could be,Dave, I lost smell and taste, couldn’t even smell my perfume directly from the bottle

Continuous High temp but no real signs of urine infection, unable to eat or drink, it just bubbled and frothed back, lost a lot of weight quickly 

Left very light headed, can walk now to the loo and around the furniture with care but soon tire

But I can drink, how special is that when you are dehydrating but can’t get fluids down 

Thank goodness for the nurse practitioner from the rapid response team, he braved a visit and brought me a commode which I desperately needed as I couldn’t balance out of bed

If I did get Covid I’m one of the lucky ones, mostly I was afraid Albert would get it

Although if I’m honest I did at one stage think I wasn’t going make it 

Thank goodness for Albert and for young Albert who picked me up of the floor on several occasions and basically carried me to bed 

It’s good to have family 

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

Scary Sandra. Hopefully the recovery will be sure, even if slow.


----------



## patp

Ray, so sorry for you loss.

Sandra, so little is known about the effects of this virus. Men are "supposed" to be more susceptible. Same with the elderly. It is, however, a living organism and so will not read the rules. It would be interesting to find out at some stage though.

Each time you think you are better and should "get on with things" just take a minute to reflect on how poorly you were and take a step back.


----------



## Penquin

With iincreasing years, and ALL of us are in that group, recovery from ANY illness or injury is increasingly slowed, whereas a child may recover from a broken arm in three weeks, a person over the age of say 65 may well take 3 MONTHS in plaster and then another 3 months for the muscles to be rebuilt.

That is why, sadly, the very elderly are less frequently given new hips / knees etc now than perhaps 15 years ago - it became increasingly evident that they were not recovering their full potential and that far from improving their quality of life, it was actually made worse due to reduced mobility and increased pain. Hip replacements following trauma are still performed but the success rate is reduced.

In other words Sandra, take your time, relax (as if you ever will), let your family do a little more to help you and Albert, they only need to be asked as you said with young Albert. You must reckon that whatever you have had, it may well take you at least as long to recover from and probably two or three times that long.

So no landscaping the garden for YOU, this week, please ! 😫 :grin2:


----------



## aldra

Not a chance Dave

Still wobbly on my feet

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

You sure had (some of) us worried Sandra but happy to hear you're on the mend. A point of order (being a pedantic type) coronavirus is NOT a living organism, or so I read.


----------



## Penquin

HermanHymer said:


> You sure had (some of) us worried Sandra but happy to hear you're on the mend. A point of order (being a pedantic type) coronavirus is NOT a living organism, or so I read.


Agree totally in all respects, but the consideration of whether a virus is alive or not is a great esoteric discussion.

Even worse if you want to discuss such things is the thing that caused BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis or "mad cow disease") as that apparently is caused not by a bacterium or even a virus but just a very small molecule called a prion which seems to cause major problems.

The nature of this small protein is not well understood, it seems to act like a parasite destroying the brain of infected animals. Prion proteins are involved in CJD Scrapie and a couple of other unusual diseases.

More about prions;

http://www.prionalliance.org/2013/11/26/what-are-prions/

They certainly cannot be regarded as living but are devastating in their effect.


----------



## aldra

What does that mean viv?

Not a living organism

Sandra


----------



## aldra

And so the formal letter has been sent to care homes informing the residents that they are to be considered dispensable in the CoVid19 pandemic

Well there’s a surprise

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

Actually, I can see the sense of that Sandra if they're talking about really frail people. I heard one ICU consultant say that ICU care was brutal. But it should all be decided on an individual basis - which is what the Drs in ICU do anyway.

Personally, I imagine remaining in your (care) home, if possible, might be infinitely preferable to going into hospital at the moment.


----------



## aldra

I have no objection to end of life care in care homes rather than hospital when that is the best option

I’m not sure we need a blanket cover letter to all elderly care homes in all situations , some elderly residents will benifit from hospital care, others won’t 

Deciding on an individual basis doesn’t warrant a generic letter deciding in advance that elderly residents are best cared for in their care homes

Clearly in all cases they are not

Sandra


----------



## HermanHymer

Re "living organism" Sandra. I cant pretend to be a scientist not even the lowliest type. Sure someone more knowledgeable than me can define the difference. I'll do some research.


----------



## HermanHymer

https://www.newscientist.com/question/are-viruses-alive/

This seems to be an objective article. I suppose the conclusion is that the nature of the virus determines scientists' ability to neutralise it. Just guessing.


----------



## Penquin

The general way that a "living organism" is defined, is if it fulfills ALL of seven basic characteristics, summarised by the words;

*MRS NERG*

Where each letter stands for a specific function;

M = Movement - the ability to move all, or part of an organism by some means e.g. Muscles or just flower opening

R = Reproduction - producing new organisms such as young or seeds

S = Sensitivity - the ability to detect and change in some way to an external stimulus e.g. Eyes to detect changes in light or leaf movement in response to changes in the sun's position

N = Nutrition - obtaining the energy and basic chemicals needed for life so eating or the leaves carrying out photosynthesis

E = Excretion - the removal of waste materials from the body's metabolism eg the removal of CO2 from the lungs (not faecal removal but that's another lesson)

R = Respiration - breaking down a substrate eg glucose to release the energy needed for other processes

G = Growth - increasing in size or complexity e.g. Growing taller (or heavier) or developing new branches

Viruses carry out NONE of those processes due to the highly specialised cycle that they have, all they consist of is a protein coat surrounding a nucleus acid strand of either DNA or RNA they gain entry to specific host cells (respiratory tract cells for CoVid) then introduce the nucleus acid strand into the host cell nucleus acid, this Cons the cell into producing thousands of new viral particles which fill the cell of the host until it bursts liberating the viral cells.

Hence why it is difficult if not wrong, to classify viruses as "living" BUT they are grouped with all living organisms as effectively they are the most specialised parasite possible having reduced their own structure to JUST the protein coat plus the nucleus acid.....

That is a concept that most young scientists struggle with, but MRS NERG or some people use MRS FERG where the N for nutrition becomes F for feeding - but that is hard for youngsters who don't think of plants "feeding" by photosynthesis.......

I hope that helps, if not do come back and I will happily explain !

I spent 38 years doing EXACTLY that...

The "New Scientist" article supports my explanation with some extra details added - I like it ! Thanks.

.


----------



## patp

Thanks Dave


----------



## aldra

Going to risk a blood test this next week with a view to recommencing my immunotherapy treatment

My mobility remains very poor and I’m hoping that that’s the reason I’m still so unsteady

Getting fed up of spending so much time sat down as I’m not too safe on my feet and tire quickly

Could do with a general check up but that’s not likely to happen at the moment

Alberts done a fine job on the gardens, just the hanging baskets to do, not sure if we will be able to get any veg this year, maybe the garden centres will reopen in time to get some tomatoes etc

They often have them at the supermarkets but we are still reliant on family to pick up shopping at the moment

They are good but it’s not the same as choosing fresh produce you can see and which gives inspiration for meal times

Just paid £400 insurance on the van which I guess will remain sat on the drive for the majority of this year

Albert can’t renew his licence as there is a misprint on the post code and he can’t get hold of anyone to rectify it 

Definitely not in a happy mood at present

Sandra


----------



## patp

Sorry to hear that life seems to be conspiring against you, Sandra. Try to look on the bright side that you and close family are all safe.


----------



## aldra

No I’m just a miserable git at the moment Pat

A drive out somewhere or something would cheer me up

Heaven help those who live in flats with kids

Sandra


----------



## barryd

Yep its not a good time to be ill unfortunately. Hope the blood tests go ok without any drama.


----------



## jiwawa

I've forgotten Sandra - do you have a walker?


----------



## aldra

No Jean,
I’m thinking I need to go back on my rheumatology drugs, I need the blood test first for baseline
The stiffness and unsteadiness is how I was before I started the immunosuppressant therapy

I think I’m getting over the illness just about, the more I think about it the more I think I did in fact have Covid , the only symptom I didn’t have was the cough thank goodness

I had vomiting and diarrhoea, continuous high temp, unable to eat, and hardly able to drink for over two weeks, loss of smell and taste
So weak I couldn’t stand without falling and breathless at the slightest effort

The only thing I can’t understand is why Albert didn’t get it, he felt tired and off colour for a few days but no more than that, I was so poorly that surely I’d have given it to him

Maybe the double antibiotics offered some protection to my chest because although the rapid response nurse who did visit me when the GP refused was concerned that I had some chest lesions they didn’t develop further

Whatever it was I did at one stage feel I was dying though

So I guess I’m one of the lucky ones and maybe I should expect it to take a while to feel better

Perhaps restarting the rheumatology drugs will ease the stiffness and joint pain and help get me back on my feet again

Sandra


----------



## Drew

*maybe the garden centres will reopen in time to get some tomatoes etc*

Just wash the seeds from a tomato Sandra, put them in some damp compost, cover them with clingfilm, leave them on a window sill, you will have tomato plants in a few weeks.


----------



## patp

Sandra, I have just read a post, elsewhere, from someone who has just taken a test for Covid 19 and it came back positive! She was absolutely amazed because her symptoms were very mild. The main symptom was extreme tiredness. She had a slight cough which came and went. She was positive that the test would come back negative but it was positive. Maybe Albert did have it. So little is known about how it manifests in different people.
I will try to find the other symptoms but they were all mild.


----------



## jiwawa

Don't you think it might be a good idea to HAVE a walker Sandra? You've had numerous bouts of being unsteady on your feet - falling even, which could lead to much worse.

I know, it's none of my business, but it seems it would give you that little bit of confidence, short-term only, until you're stable again. Then you can hide it at the back of the cupboard again! 

And it would save us worrying about you!


----------



## aldra

Yes I believe some have symptoms that are almost non existent Pat

My fear was for Albert, if I even suspected I had it I would have been so afraid to give it to him

I’m guessing I picked it up at the hospital A&Efollowing my mini stroke on the Friday, by Tuesday I was running a high temp but no cough and turned away from my follow up appointment the hospital stroke clinic

I’m disappointed that the hospital simply turned me away without testing and that the GP told me, or actually Albert, because I was too poorly to speak to him to isolate for 8 days THREE TIMES

now that would make it 24 days with no medical input

fortunatelyalthough I had begun to recover by the third week, Im wondering how many sick at home given the same advice didn’t recover 

Fortunately my daughter was high enough in the community NHS to get a senior nurse from Rapid Response to visit me, and even though he recommended the GP visit he refused, he sent me XRay form but I was too poorly to get to the hospital by then

I think there is a lot of poor community care to be answered for when this is over, testing not done and medical input not given

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Drew said:


> *maybe the garden centres will reopen in time to get some tomatoes etc*
> 
> Just wash the seeds from a tomato Sandra, put them in some damp compost, cover them with clingfilm, leave them on a window sill, you will have tomato plants in a few weeks.


Thanks Drew
Just didn't think of that
He's got tomato,sweet peppers an chilli pepper seeds collected and planted
Our daughter picked up some Geraniums at Asda, and many of his geraniums and fuchsias survived the winter in the greenhouse

The hanging baskets are done and out, most plants survived the winter in them too

It's good to see the garden beginning to bloom

We have a wood pigeon nesting close to the bay window, we've always had a pair in the garden but they have never nested so close to the house

A wren was telling me off for standing at the door, noisy little buggers

The weather has been perfect for preparing the gardens
Sandra


----------



## patp

I'm with Jean on the frame or at least a tri pod walking stick, My mum resisted for ages but when she eventually got one she kept telling everyone how much confidence it gave her!


----------



## aldra

I was doing Ok prior to getting Ill and stopping my rheumatology drugs

Listening to some covid survivors they say they are constantly very tired with painful joints and muscles

That wouldn’t help me added to arthritis 

I’m hoping that eventually I’ll get back to normal again

But it’s a slow process

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

I agree with those trying to give you increased mobility through increased confidence BUT the key thing that I am in agreement with is what YOU want to do - there is no point in us saying "If I was you I would......" for the simple truth that we never CAN be you. Only you can make the decision to go with what you are happy with.

If one of us turned up at your front door bearing a magic Zimmer frame with turbo powered supports, unless you wanted to use it, it would sit in a corner gathering dust. So, my support goes for what YOU want to do and of course, what Albert agrees with and I am sure that he would make his feelings known if he felt it crucial.

Yes, it will be a slow process, as we become older so the healing process slows down, muscles and joints are harder to get going and, of course, if you do not keep them exercising they take even longer, so take your time, take your meds and take things as they come - both of us know that once you have de died on a course it is not easy to change your intentions unless you see the advantages of the changes.


----------



## aldra

I don’t actually think that a zimmer will give me extra mobility at present

I’m very stiff and joints are painful, muscles weak

I use the furniture for added stability and potter around when I feel up to it but I’m not going far at present

I don’t feel well yet but I’m hoping that’s normal and I’m just impatient

I wish I could have a test to check for antibodies, it would be good to confirm that it was covid, if in fact it was

Sandra


----------



## patp

Chris is wondering, too, if he has had it. A couple of weeks ago he felt very poorly. Weak, light headed, slight fever, pain in his chest (!) and very laboured breathing. When you read the whole list of symptoms it is possible that he had it. At roughly the same time I had an all day headache (very unusual for me) and extreme tiredness.

We, too, would like to know if it was a mild case or not.


----------



## bilbaoman

patp said:


> Chris is wondering, too, if he has had it. A couple of weeks ago he felt very poorly. Weak, light headed, slight fever, pain in his chest (!) and very laboured breathing. When you read the whole list of symptoms it is possible that he had it. At roughly the same time I had an all day headache (very unusual for me) and extreme tiredness.
> 
> We, too, would like to know if it was a mild case or not.


Matt is looking for 100000 people with symptons before thursday


----------



## patp

bilbaoman said:


> Matt is looking for 100000 people with symptons before thursday


I heard him. He is testing those with actual symptoms. We would not qualify now.


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> I wish I could have a test to check for antibodies, it would be good to confirm that it was covid, if in fact it was
> 
> Sandra


Very, very, very many people would totally agree with you on that, this is NOT a case of HMG dragging it's feet, far from it; they have already issued contracts for 3.5 million such tests, BUT the test does not exist anywhere in the world yet to the required level of accuracy.

There have been trials, apparently, but the failure rate is too high - a false negative is as dangerous as a false positive, although a false positive could result in subsequent infection from a contact.

A test will eventually be found, I am sure, but it could be a few months rather than days or weeks. Hopefully the antibodies will still circulate in detectable numbers for you, if the delay is that long.


----------



## HermanHymer

Sandra I don't think you should overlook the fact that the ministroke could have left you with mildy weakened muscles, not to mention the other stuff. Reminds me of my Dad when he was at that stage, and your age. We were in Portugal on holiday, the whole fam damily. Now my role in family life was to whip my Dad into shape. For some strange reason he would take it from me, but not my sister. Walking up and down the hilly town of Miranda do Douro he was very wobbly and of course we were afraid he'd have a fall and injure himself. We walked into a shop and my sister bought the walking stick, thrust it into my hands and said "here, you give it to him". I did that, not much of a murmur, and as long as we reminded him to take it, he found it quite reassuring, even though he never admitted it. With my mild balance deficiency,I feel safer with my 3rd leg on uneven ground, snow and mountain paths. I used it after breaking my pelvis in 2018, and again after my foot op in February. You know when you don't need it any more.


----------



## jiwawa

My sister uses walking poles - psychologically she doesn't feel as decrepit as she might if she was using proper walking sticks. But they give her tremendous confidence.


----------



## aldra

Spoke to our GP today

My eyes are still sore and I’m still breathless 

Yes he said you were quite poorly, did you end up in hospital?

The rapid response nurse was concerned that you were developing pneumonia 

He was but his visit was arranged by my daughter not by my GPS, and he requested the GP visit, which they didn’t

They are not doing XRays at the moment , yet you sent me a XRay form?

As it happens I couldn’t have got there without an ambulance

I’m Definitely not impressed with our GP service, they knew I had covid 19

And no I didn’t end up in hospital, almost as Albert was in panic mode when my lips and nose went blue

I wasn’t really aware of breathlessness when I was ill, I just felt too ill and weak to care

I wonder how many felt to weak to care and died without medical input

If you lived alone I guess your chance of survival plummeted if no medical input was available 

Blood test done, inflammatory markers high as expected ( according to the GP) so waiting for the rheumatology team to contact and restart medication

And hopefully the stiffness and joint pain will recede and I’ll be more steady and mobile

Maybe I now have antibodies and I’m safe for a while

I can’t believe I managed to fight it off, just need to recover, the GP said it could take till July 

I hope not, but if my mobility improves with restarting the drugs then I can cope with the tiredness

My house is in desperate need of a good clean

This sunshine shows up all the dust and dirty windows

Alberts not into cleaning but the gardens and pots of flowers are looking fantastic

The wood pigeon is still sat on the nest

Life goes on

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa

We're hearing more and more from survivors about how debilitating the disease is and the long recovery time frame so be gentle on yourself Sandra.


----------



## patp

It does sound as though you had very poor care from your GP, Sandra  Too late now but perhaps a visit from an ambulance might have resulted in a test? They may have decided to leave you at home with support but the test would have given you the power of knowledge.


----------



## dghr272

Unfortunately I suspect you’re not alone Sandra in respect of your care, whilst much is rightly made of the care homes issues, those like yourself at home have been shamefully left to get on with it. 

You’re an unseen casualty of the poor handling of the virus and that suits those in charge rather well as they’ve more than enough poor statistics to deal with.

Take care Sandra and whilst it goes against the grain try not to fret about the cleaning and concentrate on getting well.

Terry


----------



## barryd

Sandra. I may have missed it but was it actually confirmed that you had Covid 19? I think its highly possible but I dont know if you were tested. Dont think you were? In some respects it would be good if it had been that as like you say you may now be immune and it appears Albert hasn't caught it. If its not been confirmed it really needs to be. How many others have gone through this and really dont know for sure what they have had? Hope you continue to make a good recovery and your on the mend. Must have been a terrible ordeal and scare for you all.


----------



## JanHank

For goodness sake stop worrying about the dust, look out and past the dust at the garden.
I know none of us can wander far at the moment, but imagination is a wonderful gift. 
I hope you´ll soon gather your strength again Sandra.


----------



## Penquin

Seeing the dust is just a reminder to enjoy the day and think about things for the future.


----------



## aldra

No Barry it wasn’t confirmed by a test, but whose was if you were not in hospital ?

We don’t know if Albert had it, certainly he was unwell and very tired, just not to the extent I was, but not everyone is as susceptible some people have no symptoms at all other thanvagually feeling unwell

Me I had the classic symptoms and was really unwell and I think our GP knew it, fortunately I didn’t go on to develop pneumonia .I now have the classic aftermath of tiredness and breathlessness

I’m not worrying about the dust but it certainly can’t last until July, I’m doing a bit each day, today I’ve done the hallway, still hampered by mobility but I think the rheumatology team will sort that out for me once they have checked the blood test results

The weather is fantastic here although I’m getting bored with the TV and I’m not able to exercise by going out yet, I envy you Jan, I have to rely on the wildlife in the garden, the rats have vanished so I suspect they have been poisoned locally, we lost quite a few of our smaller fish which could be due to someone spraying, fish are very susceptible to garden sprays and if the wind is in the right direction.


Is anyone else disappointed by series 3 of Eve ?, seems very disjointed to me, I’ll leave it and watch it when the whole series is on I Player, but I suspect it’s like many series and should have ended at the end of series two
Collateral is quite good though.

We are watching an Israeli series , but I think for us it’s the fact it’s in Hebrew that attracts as well as the fact it’s set in the orthodox quarter of Jerusalem 

Have a good day everyone

Sandra


----------



## raynipper

I can't watch any series over and over again Sandra but Jodie Comer I can watch all day.!!! I think I saw she was pregnant today.

Ray.


----------



## barryd

aldra said:


> No Barry it wasn't confirmed by a test, but whose was if you were not in hospital ?
> 
> We don't know if Albert had it, certainly he was unwell and very tired, just not to the extent I was, but not everyone is as susceptible some people have no symptoms at all other thanvagually feeling unwell
> 
> Me I had the classic symptoms and was really unwell and I think our GP knew it, fortunately I didn't go on to develop pneumonia .I now have the classic aftermath of tiredness and breathlessness
> 
> I'm not worrying about the dust but it certainly can't last until July, I'm doing a bit each day, today I've done the hallway, still hampered by mobility but I think the rheumatology team will sort that out for me once they have checked the blood test results
> 
> The weather is fantastic here although I'm getting bored with the TV and I'm not able to exercise by going out yet, I envy you Jan, I have to rely on the wildlife in the garden, the rats have vanished so I suspect they have been poisoned locally, we lost quite a few of our smaller fish which could be due to someone spraying, fish are very susceptible to garden sprays and if the wind is in the right direction.
> 
> Is anyone else disappointed by series 3 of Eve ?, seems very disjointed to me, I'll leave it and watch it when the whole series is on I Player, but I suspect it's like many series and should have ended at the end of series two
> Collateral is quite good though.
> 
> We are watching an Israeli series , but I think for us it's the fact it's in Hebrew that attracts as well as the fact it's set in the orthodox quarter of Jerusalem
> 
> Have a good day everyone
> 
> Sandra


It certainly sounds like thats what it was then Sandra. If so then its likely good news. Hopefully your both now immune but without the scientific evidence to back that up and a test to show you now have antibodies obviously you still both need to be cautious. Perhaps down the line you will get an antibodies test but dont hold your breath.

I watched the first episode of Killing Eve season 3. It never gripped me like before but I was having trouble concentrating on it. Ill maybe wait until they are all out and binge watch them. I have a bit of a thing for Villanelle, always liked dangerous women.


----------



## raynipper

Corrrrrr yeah mee too.!!!!

Ray.


----------



## aldra

I think Villanelle is fantastic Barry

Don’t know why this 3 series isn’t grabbing me, just seems disjointed and without a story line

Or maybe it’s just me

3rd episode a couple of Dramatic deaths and I don’t know why

Now I like to now whose killing who and why

Sandra


----------



## aldra

patp said:


> It does sound as though you had very poor care from your GP, Sandra  Too late now but perhaps a visit from an ambulance might have resulted in a test? They may have decided to leave you at home with support but the test would have given you the power of knowledge.


What support Pat?

I really think there was no support for those at home

I watched the programme of those who had covid once I recovered

The guy who just collapsed, got up, collapsed again

Just like me though he was much younger, I couldn't get up when I collapsed

Me I needed my 6' 5 " grandson to come and pick me up on several occasions when I collapsed

I was just trying to get to the toilet, the commode curtesy of my daughters position in the NHS made it easier, prior to that I needed to wee on a towel because I'd no chance to make it to the toilet, I couldn't stand let alone let alone walk

Fortunately I couldn't drink so was dehydrated and didn't need to wee much

How many like me didn't have a commode, only could speak to a doctor on the phone, couldn't eat or drink

And didn't have a 6 5 inch grandson to pick them up from the floor when they collapsed

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

Sadly Sandra, the number of people in your position, or worse, will remain a figure known only to the Almighty, whoever he, or she, or it is.......

I am astounded by the poor service that you received (or did not receive), really you have two choices, neither of which is good - find another Doctor as it must be difficult to have faith in your current person, or send in a gormal complaint but that is unlikely yo get anywhere as they are superb at covering their own backs......

Because you were not tested you are not recorded as positive or negative, that helps Government figures but not you......

All you can do now, is get on with getting fitter, put it all behind you and thank Young Albert for being able to help you. We all on here support you and were very concerned when we were unable to get a response on here, hence the phone calls..... you are a VIP.

.


----------



## aldra

I’m not really angry with our medical centre

It is what it is 

I’ve really worried about the rapid response nurse, he wore a mask but no protective clothing

He arrived, sent his report to the GP, concerned about my chest and breathing

Who did nothing, refused to visit ,but informed me much later the nurse was concerned I was developing pneumonia 

For me I began to get better

The Covid team doctor did a video call

Informed me I could lose sense of smell and taste

A bit late Id already lost both, but I could finally drink, being able to drink was my highlight

And having a commode was a close second

And remains so today

And I didn’t give covid to the GPS

Sandra


----------



## Wilmannie

I’m sort of speechless (which is a first). You didn’t really get any help at all. 
Sort of ‘sink or swim’ 
What have we become?


----------



## aldra

So many were left to sink or swim Annie

In care homes they were left to sink

Probably many at home who were alone also

Phone calls to 111, Albert held for 2/1/2 hours before being cut off

We were afraid of the hospital , and fortunately I began to recover, although it was touch and go at one stage

Albert was panicking ,I felt to poorly to care

Imagine if I’d been alone

No Albert, no young Albert to pick me up when I collapsed

There must have been plenty in that position

Sandra


----------



## patp

Words fail me over what you went through, Sandra, so I found this for you -

Dust if you must, but wouldn't it be better
To paint a picture, or write a letter,
Bake a cake, or plant a seed;
Ponder the difference between want and need?

Dust if you must, but there's not much time,
With rivers to swim, and mountains to climb;
Music to hear, and books to read;
Friends to cherish, and life to lead.

Dust if you must, but the world's out there
With the sun in your eyes, and the wind in your hair;
A flutter of snow, a shower of rain,
This day will not come around again.

Dust if you must, but bear in mind,
Old age will come and it's not kind.
And when you go (and go you must)
You, yourself, will make more dust.


----------



## barryd

Easy to say now but you should have been in hospital I think. 111 is pretty pointless by the sound of it. 999 or back of the car.


----------



## dghr272

It’s clear that they were afraid that the NHS would be overwhelmed and applied strict criteria as to who would get hospital treatment. I posted some criteria on another thread.

However as we hear daily the NHS critical care beds managed due to the strict criteria, indeed they report daily there are a few thousand to spare. They just forgot to adjust the original criteria therefore Care Homes and the likes of Sandra were shamefully abandoned despite the spare ICU bed capacity and the much heralded Nightingale options.

Shame on them.

Terry


----------



## aldra

Lovely poem Jan

But unfortunately most of it is curtailed at the moment

As soon as lockdown finishes I’m hoping to go to the farm on the tissington trail and learn to ride my tricycle

Just to see the wide expanse of fields etc outside of our garden will be a treat

Sadly one of of the baby wood pigeons is dead on the lawn, don’t know if there is another in the nest and don’t want to risk climbing up to look

I was so looking forward to see the fledglings 

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

aldra said:


> Lovely poem Jan
> 
> But unfortunately most of it is curtailed at the moment
> 
> As soon as lockdown finishes I'm hoping to go to the farm on the tissington trail and learn to ride my tricycle
> 
> Just to see the wide expanse of fields etc outside of our garden will be a treat
> 
> Sadly one of of the baby wood pigeons is dead on the lawn, don't know if there is another in the nest and don't want to risk climbing up to look
> 
> I was so looking forward to see the fledglings
> 
> Sandra


I posted the singing one, Pat the poem :grin2:
I have a pigeon nest right outside the dining window in the fur tree, often see the parent birds popping in and out.

When I think about 9 weeks of hell I went through last year and what is going on now I know what I would choose to live through.
You are surviving Sandra, life will get back to some kind of normal and I hope it will be sooner than later for all of our sakes.


----------



## aldra

There’s no comparison Jan to your 9 weeks of hell

Even my illness was worse for Albert

Young Albert and my daughter claimed they had already had Covid so were round to help Which was lucky for me and I guess for Albert who wasn’t feeling too well himself

They no longer come round but do any shopping we need

Although Albert has gone to the shops a couple of times and our daughter tells him off

My house is now basically clean and straight I’ve done it little and often 

It’s not pristine and we are all different, for me a disorganised home is a nightmare

Boring l know but that’s me, I gain pleasure from my home being organised and clean

Others don’t and I respect those who don’t care a whit about that , I have a couple of daughters who don’t

Albert would hoover once a month only if necessary

Never clean windows and do you need to clean paintwork?

Well I haven’t cleaned paintwork , I have cleaned some windows and the mirrors, the bathrooms and dusted all surfaces

I’m a control freak , and I no longer bake cakes, we shouldn’t eat them anyway

But each of us need to do what’s important to us

At the moment I can’t go out, my mobility is poor, so I clean a bit, sit down and clean a bit more

Albert takes Shadow out, he’s 12 and I marvel at how well he is, he loves food

In the evening I sit and watch T V and I’ve never been a TV fan, and I’m struggling to enjoy much of it, 

Albert and I don’t have the same tastes in programmes but it’s nice just to share company as he tends to spend the day in the garden and I reap the rewards

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

You are surrounded by people that really care for you, young Albert, daughter, Albert and so on, that is brilliant and of course you and Albert will not like the same shows all the time - you are two people but two people with a very long history together - you have been through good and bad times and will look back on this year as just another one of many with good and bad things in it - "an annum horribilis" to quote from the Queen a few years ago.....

Look forward as Captain (now Colonel) Tom Moore says "Tomorrow will be a good day !"

I am sure that is something that we can all agree with.


----------



## JanHank

I started to watch the series, _After Life_ not my thing, but something he said is so true, I can´t remember the exact words, but it was something like "I miss sitting doing nothing with Lisa" so true.

I am truly glad you do feel like doing something, even if it is a bit of house work, as days go by and you gain strength you will start doing more I am sure.

It´s more important to me that the place is tidy with everything in its rightful place, but some days I do leave all the washing up until the evening or sometimes even until morning, there is so little of it.

I have to do everything myself now, including the garden, but I tell myself if it doesn't get done today, tomorrow or next week it doesn't matter, nobody but me will see it >


----------



## aldra

And that is so true Jan

I never wash up in the evening, just the two of us, if Albert cooks it’s just the 10 of us

I wash up as I cook, only the pots we eat on left ,he uses the whole kitchen

And yes of course just doing nothing with Hans you miss

As I would with Albert 

We’ve spent years you and I together with our partners

A lot of it doing nothing

You need to do everything yourself now and the truth is only you can judge how important it is, tomorrow or next week

And the truth is it’s the same for me, alberts not judging

And I guess neither was Hans

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Finally at last the rheumatology team have contacted me

Restart the methotrexate, the blood test showed all’s well except for inflammatory markers which are high

But that’s to be expected without the immunosuppressants 

Also sending a months course of steroids to deal with the stiffness whilst the methotrexate builds

It’s a lower dose than they would normally use but due to covid it’s the highest they can use as it suppresses further the immune system

I just hope I’ve already had covid and have some antibodies against getting it again, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone

Now I have another problem, sorry

The methotrexate causes hair loss, it it of course a chemo drug,not to bad, I can cope with thinning hair

The real problem is that the anticoagulant drug the hospital put me on following my stroke is causing hair loss at a rate of knots

I can pull it out by hand, brushing jams the brush with hair

I can’t speak to the stroke consultant ,I haven’t even met him yet

I’ve arranged a tele call with the GP, I need a different anticoagulant

I don’t think being bald will suit me, and restarting methotrexate + the anticoagulant drug I think may result in that

I hate hats

Sandra


----------



## JanHank

There are many anticoagulants Sandra, there must be one that will suit you.
Hans had Pradaxa for years, without side effects for him.


----------



## patp

And here am I bemoaning that my locks are too long and what am I going to do if the hairdresser does not come back for another couple of months! 
Hope they find you a different drug, Sandra.

I might want the hairdresser but I really, really need the podiatrist to return sooner rather than later. Me poor feet are killing me!

Chris and I have completely different taste in tv. He just switches the set on and will watch whatever comes on. Drives me nuts. A film halfway through? What is the point in that? He doesn't care. Silly comedy shows too.

I am a bit of control freak. I go through what is on and plan the evening viewing with precision. Record any with adverts and watch BBC if we can. My brother goes a step further and buys Radio Times so that he can go through with his highlighter pen  I do consult him if a choice has to be made


----------



## Penquin

I hope that a suitable combination can be found for you, Sandra, methotrexate is a drug that Lesley is VERY familiar with having been on it for about 15 years, but she has now had to stop it due to the biological molecule that she is now taking (@ 3300€ for 28 days). 

Both of those have resulted in hair loss as you say, but she still has plenty, although much less abundant than it used to be....

Me ? Mine is limited to say the least, but "you cannot grow moss on a busy road". 😂

The problem for my head now, is that without any effective protective covering it suffers on a virtually daily basis with bumps, cuts and scrapes so I normally resemble a battle scarred victim, I wonder whether this is a common problem for us "follicly challenged" individuals ?

At least the only anticoagulant that I take is daily aspirin - that is more than enough to make a minor scratch look like an attack by Jaws..... So on that basis, I certainly wish you well.


----------



## raynipper

patp said:


> Chris and I have completely different taste in tv. He just switches the set on and will watch whatever comes on. Drives me nuts. A film halfway through? What is the point in that? He doesn't care. Silly comedy shows too.
> 
> I am a bit of control freak. I go through what is on and plan the evening viewing with precision. Record any with adverts and watch BBC if we can. My brother goes a step further and buys Radio Times so that he can go through with his highlighter pen  I do consult him if a choice has to be made


Us too Pat. Wife just likes the noise and doesn't actually need to watch but anything B&W or WW2 she is glued. I also go through the RT as and when we can get it barring Bank Holidays, and highlight what we are about to record. We have to have two recorders as virtually everything of interest is on 9pm your time.

Ray.


----------



## aldra

Dave

For goodness sake wear a head covering

Alberts long hair covers his bald parts

He hates it so I guess he’d be happy to be bald

But I’m not going to cut it, I always have but he needs to wait for a barber now

Yep methotrexate resulted in thinning of the hair

But it didn’t come out in handfuls

Sandra


----------



## aldra

I guess it’s only vanity after all

I’m old well past my best

But hey my nails are beautiful

The only bit that is now

But maybe some bits inside still are

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Spoke to GP

He feels the hair loss could well be due to the fact I was so ill

Suggests I give it a month to allow the next hair growth cycle ,if no better contact again

On no account stop taking the tablets

So Ill see what happens

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> I guess it's only vanity after all
> 
> I'm old well past my best
> 
> But hey my nails are beautiful
> 
> The only bit that is now
> 
> But maybe some bits inside still are
> 
> Sandra


Beauty is not external, it is internal

And of course, is in the eye of the beholder.

I am sure Albert remains convinced that you are unchanged from his early days with you.

.


----------



## Ozzyjohn

When my (bald from his early 20s) father used to say, "you cannot grow moss on a busy road" - my mother would always respond (lovingly), "Yes, but there's often no thatch on an empty cottage."



Penquin said:


> The problem for my head now, is that without any effective protective covering it suffers on a virtually daily basis with bumps, cuts and scrapes so I normally resemble a battle scarred victim, I wonder whether this is a common problem for us "follicly challenged" individuals ?


Oh yes, I can certainly relate to the battle scarred head look (just like my father before me) - I've taken more and more to wearing some sort of hat - woolly if it's cold, lightweight cloth cap when warmer - I find it helps to cushion the blows.

Regards,
John


----------



## jiwawa

aldra said:


> I hate hats
> 
> Sandra


Oh, I thought you had "a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me."??!


----------



## aldra

I hate anything on my head

Even in winter

Although I am fascinated by the hats the Hasidism women wear

Must be living in Israel all those years

I’m not following the red hat

Sandra


----------



## raynipper

I find I wear peaked caps outside now like baseball caps. Not because of the hair as I have plenty but after the cataracts opp everything is just so much brighter now and I need the sun shade element.

Ray.


----------



## jiwawa

aldra said:


> I'm not following the red hat
> 
> Sandra


From the poem 
"When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me...."

I think you've referenced it before.


----------



## JanHank

jiwawa said:


> From the poem
> "When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
> With a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me...."
> 
> I think you've referenced it before.


As kids we used to say "Red hat no drawers" >


----------



## patp

Ha, ha! We said something similar - "Fur coat and no knickers!"


----------



## jiwawa

patp said:


> Ha, ha! We said something similar - "Fur coat and no knickers!"


That was ours too, up in Edinburgh


----------



## aldra

Interesting that they are now thinking that blood thinners may be helpful in Covid19

I had a a TIA and was put on blood thinners prior to Covid

I think I took them throughout my illness, Albert brought them twice a day

I struggled but took My medication it worried him if I didn’t

So did it get me through?

And prevented blood clots on my lungs ?

Were the lesions of suspected pneumonia made safer by blood thinners

Sandra


----------



## patp

I had not heard that, Sandra. I do not take any blood thinners. I asked my doctor if I should and he me advised that an apple a day is just as beneficial. Not sure if that of general or specific advice.
Chris takes a low dose Aspirin and that is thought to be more effective if taken at night. This could, of course, be because most heart attacks occur in the morning.


----------



## JanHank

patp said:


> I had not heard that, Sandra. I do not take any blood thinners. I asked my doctor if I should and he me advised that an apple a day is just as beneficial. Not sure if that of general or specific advice.
> Chris takes a low dose Aspirin and that is thought to be more effective if taken at night. This could, of course, be because most heart attacks occur in the morning.


Please read this Pat


At this point investigators don't know how much rutin one should take as a blood-thinning therapy, but you can't lose by including apples in your diet. Just make sure to get real apples. *That means avoiding supermarket apples; **the average supermarket apple is about ten months old, and much of the nutrition is gone*. Get your apples unwaxed and as fresh as possible. Apples in the northern hemisphere are best from late summer until early winter. Antioxidant polyphenols in apples are formed in response to pests as a natural pesticide, so organic apples will have far more of these valuable compounds. Plus you won't be getting the synthetic pesticides.

From this web page.
https://www.beyondhealthnews.com/wpnews/index.php/2013/03/want-to-thin-your-blood-eat-more-apples/


----------



## patp

Ooh thanks Jan.

I do eat organic apples but only the ones I can get at Sainsburys. I do have a slight allergy to them and they affect my asthma. Not sure how we can ensure that we only eat "fresh" apples as, like most fruit, they are seasonal.


----------



## JanHank

patp said:


> Ooh thanks Jan.
> 
> I do eat organic apples but only the ones I can get at Sainsburys. I do have a slight allergy to them and they affect my asthma. Not sure how we can ensure that we only eat "fresh" apples as, like most fruit, they are seasonal.


My point exactly. 
I´m afraid I wouldn't trust an apple a day keeps the blood thinner if that was what was needed for me.
If your blood needs thinning I´d talk to your doctor again and tell him what the study says.


----------



## patp

I don't need blood thinners, so I am told. I just asked him if I should take the low dose Aspirin that used to be recommended for everyone over a certain age. His reply, about apples, was his answer to my question. 
Mind you his drug bill must be the lowest in the NHS. He tries, very hard, not to prescribe anything and monitors what you are on very strictly. I mentioned to him that, in an effort to minimise the amount I take, I cut my tiny sleeping tablet in half. The next prescription that was filled contained half the amount of tablets!


----------



## raynipper

But it's all trial and error Jan.
I decided to take the odd bit of a Atenolol tablet when I remember. If I take it regularly I get nose bleeds. Everyone said go see the GP who then prescribed two other bp lowering tabs but again more nose bleeds. So I'm back on Atenolol chopped into 3 or 4 bits and taken now and again when I feel the need.

Yes it all seems haphazard but works for me.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank

raynipper said:


> But it's all trial and error Jan.
> I decided to take the odd bit of a Atenolol tablet when I remember. If I take it regularly I get nose bleeds. Everyone said go see the GP who then prescribed two other bp lowering tabs but again more nose bleeds. So I'm back on Atenolol chopped into 3 or 4 bits and taken now and again when I feel the need.
> 
> Yes it all seems haphazard but works for me.
> 
> Ray.


Blood pressure is something different Ray, you don´t need Anticoagulants for that.
I have taken B.P. tablets for at least 10 years, I had no idea I had high B.P. until I was taken to hospital because I fainted, at the vets :grin2: 
High BP can and does lead to a stroke or heart attach I take them every day, Amlodipin and Valsacor comp.
There are many beater blockers (blood pressure tablet) Ray, I would rather take them than risk a stroke or heart attack.

You need to check your B.P to find out if its high or low it doesn't depend on how you feel.
Hans had no idea he had a heart problem until a doctor gave him an ECG during a sickness attack when we were on holiday in the Black Forest,
he was rushed to hospital and they discovered the heart problem, then came the warfarin for a few months until he was recommended pradaxa.


----------



## raynipper

Yes Jan. I have been checking my bp for many years after a doctor in UK declared I had high bp 20 years ago. But I find I can regulate it as necessary and better than our GP. I don't have a great deal of confidence in GPs as they are trial and error.

Recently I have had five scans and numerous checks at hospitals and anaesthetics who all said no problem with my bp. I always lay off the Atenolol for two days before hospital appointments. So guess it can't be too bad.

Ray.


----------



## patp

The criteria for high blood pressure has changed in recent years. I think the "normal" range is much bigger than it used to be.


----------



## JanHank

patp said:


> The criteria for high blood pressure has changed in recent years. I think the "normal" range is much bigger than it used to be.


Just taken mine, excellent 140/66 81 pulse


----------



## aldra

I dont think that blood thinners are To be Prescribed as a preventative to Covid Pat

More as a possible treatment as they believe that covid may cause blood clots in the lungs Which reduces the lungs ability to Circulate and absorb oxygen

I was prescribed mine as apparently I have an irregular heart beat Which causes blood to pool and possibly clot in the atrium which is what they think caused my TIA when it circulated a small clot

Apparently I’m on it for life to prevent a stroke

It’s fairly recent research on looking at blood thinning drugs in the treatment of Covid damage

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Well it seems an antibody test is now available

I want one, I’m 100% sure I had Corona19

I was really sick , not as sick as Albert knew I was 

I didn’t know my lips and nose were blue, and I was too weak to really know I was breathless

I just wanted to be left alone to sleep, food and fluids were not that important 

But fluids must have been because to this day whenever I drink a glass of fluid I smile

A bigger smile if it’s wine which I shouldn’t really drink

Albert worries that he should have phoned 999

But he phoned the doctors, who frankly did nothing

He isn’t a doctor, it’s not his place to have known

How did he survive without contracting Covid 19 worse than me

That’s the mystery, maybe antibodies tests will have the answer

Sandra


----------



## aldra

Yep he tells me

I thought I was going to lose you and I didn’t know what to do, I sat for ages 
just watching you, checked every half hour you were still alive, took your temp and prayed it came down 

I felt so tired and unwell Myself but you I thought you might die

That’s about as romantic as he gets

55 years, 6 kids, later

Well I wouldn’t change him romantic or not

And neither would his 6 kids and 11 grandkids

Especially his older ones 

Check it out with grandad, he’ll sort it and to this day he does

Me I used to cook, but now I’m pretty useless

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

And both of you have always given your efforts to help others 110% of your time - that is one characteristic of you both that is truly admirable. 

.


----------



## patp

There is so much we do not know about the virus, Sandra. Some people get it and it drags them down while others get it and seem to fight it off.

As I said, somewhere, we think Chris might have had it very mildly and me an even milder version. Like you it would be good to know.


----------



## aldra

If mildly Pat you must have had some immunity against it

As I hope Albert did

We slept in the same bed He wouldn’t leave me alone at night

Emptied the commode which he helped me to access as could hardly stand ,took my temp constantly

Sat in the room and watched me, even though he didn’t feel that well himself

Brought me food and drink which I couldn’t touch

Fed me medication

Not in the slightest romantic looking back

But I was well loved by this guy 

And maybe that’s what got me though

At times I would have been happy to die when I felt at my worst, just a couple of weeks, although 

I’ve never felt so ill, even after open heart surgery I felt better, actually well by comparison 

It’s a nasty disease if you get it badly 

And many got it much worse than me

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

patp said:


> There is so much we do not know about the virus, Sandra. Some people get it and it drags them down while others get it and seem to fight it off.
> 
> As I said, somewhere, we think Chris might have had it very mildly and me an even milder version. Like you it would be good to know.


Knowing that Boris has had it fairly badly and was in ICU, on CPAP rather than a ventilator, but it is not long since that time and I still wonder how much he has REALLY recovered...?

Yes, we have seen him a few times, but not that many, and even then it has been for a comparatively short time. I wonder whether he is not being totally upfront about his health and I would not blame him for being secretive, but it takes a long time to get over and there are many reports of not being fully fit, physically and mentally.

Hisvrask at present, must be one of the most stressful jobs that exists, is he really coping at present ?

Perhaps his health would be used as a weapon of criticism, but IMO, no-one would criticise him if he is still not 100% fit......

It certainly takes a very long time to get over it and after a close call with death that must be very very true.......

.


----------



## erneboy

Poor Boris. If he isn't well he should of course resign and give the controls to another incompetent. He is surrounded by them so no mess he can make cannot be equalled by any of his fellow regime members.


----------



## aldra

I noticed Boris had some circular bald patches in his hair

I wonder if he like me is losing his hair following his illness, same pattern hair loss

I’m just about getting somewhere back to normal levels of energy and the breathlessness is subsiding

I recon Boris won’t have fully recovered yet and I’m not surprised his appearances are infrequent

Others may well put a different reason for infrequent appearances though

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

I hadn't noticed his hair - not something I would look at, I am always more concerned with his mouth and what comes out following his foot.....😷😂


----------



## patp

I did notice something, now you mention it, Sandra. Hadn't heard of it as a symptom, or rather as a result, of Covid 19.


----------



## aldra

No Pat the result of being very ill, I’m guessing with any illness

Apparently hair regrows in monthly? Cycles

Illness can seriously disturb the growth Pattern

I thought my loss was related to medication , myGp said it was not likelyOn that particular drug

Leave it a month to give the next growth cycle a chance to kick in

I don’t think I’m losing hair at the same rate now so maybe he’s right 

I could just pull small clumps of it out which left the small circular bald patches I notice on Boris 

Sandra


----------



## patp

This is very interesting -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52760992...2Qmr4i6G5Pxm6PBDPw_YbiHgmDcD4KK3R9n4tewtuvVCk


----------



## JanHank

Too much for me to take in Pat, but the sticky blood and clotting of blood is very interesting.


----------



## aldra

Well it’s seeming that those with heart and circulatory disease are more at risk than those with lung problems of severe reactions to the disease

Prior to that the thought was that asthma, COPD and other lung problems were the key risks

Of course they must still be in the at risk group

But it seems that Covid causes blood thickening, clot forming affects all organs of the body and those with heart and circulatory disease are very much at risk 

Prior to that it was maybe not recognised that thickening of blood flow in the lungs were closing off the airways

Like everything, we learn as we go along

Sandra


----------



## Penquin

From a paper that I read, diabetics are still risk because one of the severe side effects is an increase in the bloood glucose level outside normal parameters.

This causes the blood to be thicker which damages other organs including the brain and the kidneys and heart. In diabetics controlling thus high blood glucose is difficult in the extreme -,this is believed to be why a diabetic with a long term blood glucose level ABOVE the normal value has a nearly 3x greater risk of death.

Sobering reading, but still age is the most severe risk factor......

Combine several risk factors and the benefits of avoiding become even clearer.

There is a great deal to learn about this virus, sadly,nthe time to learn it and reverse the effects is very short.....


----------



## aldra

Dave I would imagine that diabetics is a blood disorder

Noticed that they are saying that they have been treating covid patients as having a type of flu but were concerned in the very sick there was multiple organ shut down Leading to death

Now beginning to realise It doesn’t follow the course of flu and they are learning as they go along

You and Lesley take care 

I have some good news, I have blood in my urine, since when has that been good news?, since I had covid, GP will contact me today although having sweated all night I feel a bit better today

I know they say you can’t have covid twice but I was very worried when I started with a fever

People don’t realise just how bad covid can be Particularly to those who with underlying health issues, I think to the young it’s seen as a case of flu, a few days unwell, and for them in general it is

They don’t all see the need for safe distancing or isolation

Sandra


----------



## patp

Glad they found the source of your problem, Sandra.

I agree, that, so many people are blase about this virus. It is a selfish attitude really. They think that they will survive it if they get it and so carry on as normal. This makes the vulnerable even more scared.
We had some workmen just outside and they, as usual, all congregate around one of the vans. Jokes were being bantered about and it occurred to me that laughing must be almost as bad a coughing for spreading the virus! I went in and shut the door


----------



## aldra

It’s difficult to say Pat

We were all young once and thought ourselves invincible 

We were all selfish once when it came to world problems

As time goes on the young get restless, the chance of work disappears, education is disrupted

If they do get hopefully it will be the young that carry the antidote to the disease 

Young Albert has found full time work at Iceland( zero hours contract but full time hours)his first real experience of work and he’s a bit besotted with a weekly wage

Yesterday a full pallet of bottled water fell on his foot and broke two of his toes

I’ll rest it for a day he said then I need to get back to work, I need the money

I’m guessing a lot of people are really needing the money right now

Most of us in the vulnerable group don’t have that extra pressure, it’s a boring necessity to shield, and I guess our stocks and shares have taken a dive

So I guess priorities are different

Sandra


----------



## patp

Tell young Albert to strap the broken toe to a healthy toe. That is all they did for Chris. It is nice that he has such a good work ethic. I expect that he is also worried that someone will take his job.


----------



## aldra

The hospital did that Pat

He had it Xrayed to confirm breakage and strapped It up

Of course he’s worried about his job, but zero hours no sick pay

Even if it was their pallet that fell on his foot

It was nobodies fault he says, these things happen, the fork lift drops the load, doesn’t lower in gently And my foot was in the way 

His cousin, a lawyer in industrial accidents disagrees but I guess he’s enjoying working there and shares a comradely with his work mates

He will live

Sandra


----------



## patp

His cousin is probably right but he doesn't want to rock the work boat at such an early stage of his working life.


----------



## Penquin

aldra said:


> The hospital did that Pat
> 
> He had it Xrayed to confirm breakage and strapped It up
> 
> Of course he's worried about his job, but zero hours no sick pay
> 
> Even if it was their pallet that fell on his foot
> 
> It was nobodies fault he says, these things happen, the fork lift drops the load, doesn't lower in gently And my foot was in the way
> 
> His cousin, a lawyer in industrial accidents disagrees but I guess he's enjoying working there and shares a comradely with his work mates
> 
> He will live
> 
> Sandra


And fractures to the foot like that don't have to be reported under the RIDDOR regs so he is unlikely to get far sadly.

You take care and make sure you look after yourself, you're ALLOWED to be feeling grotty now, hopefully the haematourea will be sorted asap.


----------



## dghr272

At the very least the accident should be written up in the company’s accident book.

Proper use of a forklift should not cause a sudden drop unless the vehicle is faulty or being operated incorrectly. The operator should also be certified to the appropriate level to operate the type of forklift being operated.

Staff should also stand well clear if forklifts are working, have hi-vis tops and most importantly have toe protecting footwear.

Local authorities have responsibility for shop H&S issues and would have field day with this type of accident.

Terry


----------



## aldra

I thought that Terry 

But no real harm done apart from a sore foot

Maybe he’ll stand further back next time the fork lift is in use 

Sandra


----------



## dghr272

aldra said:


> I thought that Terry
> 
> But no real harm done apart from a sore foot
> 
> Maybe he'll stand further back next time the fork lift is in use
> 
> Sandra


Until the next time when someone may not be so lucky. Especially if lessons haven't been learnt by ALL those involved.

I was proud to work for a company who valued their employees, so much so we were even encouraged to officially report near misses to help prevent reoccurrences.

Terry


----------



## aldra

Apparently it’s the last few inches where the fork lift drops its load quickly 

The accident was officially recorded, although it wasn’t till after his shift finished that his foot began to cause him problems, XRays confirmed 2broken toes 

Our grandson says it was his fault for being too close to the pallet, it’s not a factory ,it’s a storeroom in a supermarket

Hopefully all the staff including whoever was supervising that day will have had a sharp safety alert 

Our grandson, on zero hours contract lost a days pay as he took the day off to rest his foot so that will serve to remind him to be more safety conscious in future

Sandra


----------



## dghr272

aldra said:


> Apparently it's the last few inches where the fork lift drops its load quickly
> 
> The accident was officially recorded, although it wasn't till after his shift finished that his foot began to cause him problems, XRays confirmed 2broken toes
> 
> Our grandson says it was his fault for being too close to the pallet, it's not a factory ,it's a storeroom in a supermarket
> 
> Hopefully all the staff including whoever was supervising that day will have had a sharp safety alert
> 
> Our grandson, on zero hours contract lost a days pay as he took the day off to rest his foot so that will serve to remind him to be more safety conscious in future
> 
> Sandra


I managed a fleet of forklifts in our stores, as mentioned previously the forklift is faulty or not being operated correctly, such dropping is not normal or advisable especially if loading racking.

Terry


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## aldra

I mention it to our grandson Terry

Maybe he could suggest that the forklift be serviced ?

I don’t know how much training is given to the operator, maybe our grandson will know, although having only recently joined the team I doubt he’d know much

Sandra


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## dghr272

aldra said:


> I mention it to our grandson Terry
> 
> Maybe he could suggest that the forklift be serviced ?
> 
> I don't know how much training is given to the operator, maybe our grandson will know, although having only recently joined the team I doubt he'd know much
> 
> Sandra


All operators should be licensed AND undergo refresher training every five years or thereabouts to ensure their license is kept valid no matter what environment they are working in.

Terry


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## aldra

Could well be the case there too Terry

Are there different sizes of fork lifts , like a mini one 

He says they were lifting a pallet of bottled water

I’ve lectured him about lifting with blended knees, not lifting weights that are too heavy, he’s young 6’ 5 and very strong , I know as he lifted me several times when I collapsed with covid and I only just missed the light fitting

I didn’t warn him about fork lifts dropping their load on his foot 

I hope they keep him on after Covid, it’s his first job and I’m guessing a learning curve for him

He seems to enjoying the staff comradeship and the work And of course the wage

He’s proud to be paying his mum, a single mum, towards his costs

To be honest I was worried he wouldn’t develop a work ethic, in this family of high achievers and strong work ethics feel overshadowed

To much information I know 

But I always, well most of the time I feel I’m just chatting to a friend, who no doubt has similar problems with their own

Sandra


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## erneboy

If the forklift is as described it's faulty. Though the described action hardly seems possible in a hydraulic machine. Regardless the operator should not be using it if it's not working properly. Really though that explanation just doesn't work on numerous levels, as Terry points out. I refrained from saying so till someone else had done so.


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## dghr272

erneboy said:


> If the forklift is as described it's faulty. Though the described action hardly seems possible in a hydraulic machine. Regardless the operator should not be using it if it's not working properly. Really though that explanation just doesn't work on numerous levels, as Terry points out. I refrained from saying so till someone else had done so.


Most hydraulic machines that lift have an anti-drop control valve, if the machine is being operated correctly I would suspect this valve is faulty.

Terry


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## dghr272

aldra said:


> Could well be the case there too Terry
> 
> Are there different sizes of fork lifts , like a mini one
> 
> He says they were lifting a pallet of bottled water
> 
> I've lectured him about lifting with blended knees, not lifting weights that are too heavy, he's young 6' 5 and very strong , I know as he lifted me several times when I collapsed with covid and I only just missed the light fitting
> 
> I didn't warn him about fork lifts dropping their load on his foot
> 
> I hope they keep him on after Covid, it's his first job and I'm guessing a learning curve for him
> 
> He seems to enjoying the staff comradeship and the work And of course the wage
> 
> He's proud to be paying his mum, a single mum, towards his costs
> 
> To be honest I was worried he wouldn't develop a work ethic, in this family of high achievers and strong work ethics feel overshadowed
> 
> To much information I know
> 
> But I always, well most of the time I feel I'm just chatting to a friend, who no doubt has similar problems with their own
> 
> Sandra


Yes forklifts come in various guises, with various lifting capacities, an interesting one is the 'man up' variety were the operator actually goes up to hand pick items from high racking, you need a head for heights and confidence that the equipment is regularly serviced as sudden drops could be disastrous.

Terry


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## aldra

I think it was just lowering a crate of water Bottles 

Now I’m getting nervous

Sandra


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## erneboy

Water is heavy.


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