# Drinking in the Motorhome when Wild camping



## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Keep this handy as the question gets raised so many times :wink: 
http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...n-your-motorhome-know-the-law/_ch1_nw2526_pg1

At this time of year pitching up in your motorhome and having a tipple is a treat many of us enjoy. But be warned, it's easier to be prosecuted for being 'drunk in charge' than you think...

We ask Philip Somarakis, an expert motoring lawyer with Davenport Lyons, what the legal implications are of parking into a pub car park, having a few alcoholic drinks and then getting back into your motorhome to sleep it off.

On the face of it, driving your "home" to a public house is a pretty good idea to avoid drinking and driving as you now have a pub on your doorstep.

Motorhome owners should however be cautious about the risks of being "drunk in charge" of a motorhome if they are staying overnight in the car park.

If you are drunk "in charge" of your motorhome on a road or "public place" you can be arrested by the police and could lose your licence if convicted.

This article looks at whether a parking area for motorhomes next to a pub amounts to a "public place" and also what being "in charge" of a motorhome means. We also focus on the scenario where you have evening dinner and drinks.

AT A GLANCE

Before you start drinking alcohol, you must:
•	Make sure your motorhome is already parked up for the night. Do not take the risk of having to move it later to the right place, even if it's just a short distance within the car park or into an adjacent field
•	Ensure your motorhome is not causing an obstruction. You should always consider whether you might be asked to move it later so 
•	Have some evidence if possible of the duration of your stay, so that you could prove your intention to sleep overnight in the car park

After you've had a drink of alcohol, you must:
•	Never start up the engine in your motorhome
•	Never place the key in the ignition
•	Never sit behind the steering wheel or in the driver's seat if it is facing forwards

Any or all of the above could be taken as indicators that you may be contemplating driving the motorhome and are more likely to attract attention from the police. 
And always remember that if you've had a lot of alcohol to drink, you may still be over the legal limit the following morning.

:wink:


----------



## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

We always wild and always have wine with our meal, sometimes a beer or a glass of port before, so I suppose technically we could at sometime be near or over the limit.
We do make it obvious we have no intention of driving by seats turned, maybe the front blinds drawn or partly, and stuff on the table, although depending where we are the glasses and bottles may not be in plain view. I am also talking of such places as roadside parking and car parks 
It would be very apparent we had no intention of driving and it would need to be a complete jobs worth to try to take the matter further, although it would be possible.
Having done this for many years, I am not unduly concerned, however if and when, we would take photographic evidence of the state of our van at the time of the possible arrest.
I am not saying, do as I do, but we are comfortable with the above and we don't drink and drive!


----------



## stevethebeekeeper (Jan 23, 2011)

Personally we will always have at least one of us unalcoholed. That way should the spot become undesirable we are in a position to move on. This has happened a few times on our travels, either because of weather or undesirables arriving.

It also stops any issues about unfit.


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Caravan parks are legally deemed to be public places too!

Mike


----------



## dragabed (May 24, 2008)

may i say this law?is a dedicated uk anomaly and does not apply in the eu


----------



## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Don't agree, there has to be intent, after living with a JP for 5 years who is always dealing with this sort of scenario the police have to prove intent to drive. simples

Loddy :wink:


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

loddy said:


> Don't agree, there has to be intent, after living with a JP for 5 years who is always dealing with this sort of scenario the police have to prove intent to drive. simples
> 
> Loddy :wink:


Exactly that.

There has not been one reported case where a Police Constable has come knocking at a MH door checking for alcohol use where it has been parked on a rally field such as a school, farmers field, pub etc.
In the case of parking in a pub car park is concerned then as long as you have obtained the landlords permission to park there overnight then that would be sufficient to show you had no intention to drive.

As far as the New Year Rally is concerned this is a rally being held under MHF's exemption certificate. The car park area we are occupying should therefore be a rally site and it would be easy to convince a magistrate, in the hugely unlikely event that the Police and CPS would prosecute, that there was no intention to drive. The fact that you were parked up and payed your rally fee for so many nights would be sufficient.
I would suggest that all MHF show rallies are open to the public and that there is a vast amount of drinking.

Drinking whilst wild camping or laid up in a lay-bye is a different matter and some common sense is required as it is much harder to prove the non intent.


----------



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

actually this subject only crops up prior to Christmas and New Year mainly, caused by articles used as fillers by magazines and papers who really have no idea what they are talking about.could almost feel the Mail doing this. 8O 
The answers posted show this.

cabby


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Mates*

Great Advice Mavis.

However, in the UK. The only way to get away with it is get together with a load of mates and cousins. Few ferral kids, dogs and Transit vans. Pick any piece of Private or Public land and you can do what the hell you like, for a couple of weeks at the very least.

Coppers won't go anywhere near you!.

TM


----------



## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

Use an exterior silver screen on your windscreen. There's no way anyone could drive without being able to see ahead.


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Easyriders said:


> Use an exterior silver screen on your windscreen. There's no way anyone could drive without being able to see ahead.


I am sure that someone will respond that our over worked constabulary will be patrolling and will report you for failing to display your VED disc.


----------



## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*organplayer*

Ain"t life grand in this b....y gulag of ours!


----------



## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

_"I am sure that someone will respond that our over worked constabulary will be patrolling and will report you for failing to display your VED disc"_

I bet the police will be far too busy sorting out everyone else's lives this time of year to worry about a tax disc being displayed.  The good will to all men aspect of the season tends to have worn a little thin by this time of the year and it will get worse the closer we get to Christmas.

However the advice about the perils of the night before's alcoholic intake is a very realistic problem. Might need to break out those alco tubes we all bought for France and use them as it seems like they are probably going to be surplice to requirements 
:evil: :evil:

Happy holidays everyone.


----------



## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a system which has served me well for years.

String a washing line from the mirror to a convenient anchor point. peg 2 pairs of large pink elasticated Winceyette knickers and a string vest to the washing line and retire for the evening.

You show no intent of moving and everyone is too embarassed to come near you.

It works for me, plus I have freshly aired underwear for the following day. :lol:


----------



## Pat-H (Oct 30, 2009)

Easyriders said:


> Use an exterior silver screen on your windscreen. There's no way anyone could drive without being able to see ahead.


If they've had enough to drink they may try....


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

to be _surplice_ to requirements

Just like cassocks?

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


----------



## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

What is a policeman?

Dave


----------



## Geriatricbackpacker (Aug 21, 2012)

_to be surplice to requirements Just like cassocks?_

Damn! fat finger syndrome and got busted by the grammar police

 

Good job I haven't been drinking....

:lol:


----------



## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

spykal said:


> Hi
> 
> Caravan parks are legally deemed to be public places too!
> 
> Mike


I would be very interested to see a legal source for this assertion, Mike.

I'd be truly surprised if this is in fact the case, especially where they have entrance barriers operated by a code or pass, hence not accessible by the general public. In a lot of cases, not even by existing campers after a certain time at night.


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

rogerblack said:


> I would be very interested to see a legal source for this assertion, Mike.


Hi

Take a look here

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/the-road-user-and-the-law

I should have made it clear that it is the service roads in caravan sites that may come under this legal ruling.

I know that there are many roads that you , and I, would think are private, as in say the service roads in a campsite and as such we might think that they would be excluded from the drink driving law.... but we woud be wrong to assume that ....in effect AFAIK there is no difference, in the eyes of the law, between a private pub car park which most of us already realise is covered by the drink drive law and the service roads in a caravan site.

If however you are parked up on a grass pitch off that service road the legal situation may well be different.

Mike


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

rogerblack said:


> spykal said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


This point has been discussed on camping, caravan, motorhome and motoring forums for decades and up to now nobody has reported ever being reported for being 'drunk in charge' of a vehicle whilst pitched up on a club or commercial site. As has been said for that charge to stick the Police must prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intention to drive.
If someone can report an actual case that has occurred on a rally site, when parked in a motorhome or caravan , whether it be in a school, at a pub, at a motorhome show, at a farm etc etc then they will be the first. Of course in a lay-bye or parked up in an industrial estate etc then it could be a different matter but the Police still have to prove beyond reasonable doubt an intention to drive.
If the Police had the intention of testing the law then a show such as Peterborough would give them ample opportunity.


----------



## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

spykal said:


> rogerblack said:
> 
> 
> > I would be very interested to see a legal source for this assertion, Mike.
> ...


Thanks Mike but I still can't see any reference on the page you've given to 'service roads' in caravan parks/campsites (I haven't clicked through and read the contents of all the links !)

By the term 'service roads' do you mean the roads around the campsite leading to the individual pitches? The implication of your assertion would be that any member of the public is entitled to use those and indeed could park their motorhome and spend the night without paying, as there are no yellow lines or other parking restrictions. Under your definition, there would certainly be no possibility of the site owners taking action for trespass. Although I suppose if you are right then the police could possibly do you for obstruction . . .

I cannot see that these "service roads" within enclosed caravan/campsites would come within the definition of having public access (or in Scotland, public having any right of passage). I'd love to know if anyone has ever actually been charged, let alone successfully prosecuted, for being 'drunk in charge' of a motorhome whilst within the precincts of a campsite.


----------



## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

You could always claim to any police officer you were the new chairman of the Conservative Party! After this weeks revelations you could be found with a smoking gun, a dead nun, two scantily dressed small furry animals and a crate of Stella and they would wave you off with a cheery grin and polite salute!


----------



## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

Unless anyone hadn't noticed, the Police are already overstretched. There is no way that they would contemplate testing the water by attempting to prosecute any person sitting in a motor vehicle with no keys in the ignition and therefore no present attempt to drive. Start the engine and that may be a different matter. However they would still wait until the driver had tried to access the public highway, which the pub car park is definitely not.
Finally, no Police officer is going to enter a campsite, or a showground in the hopes of getting a prosecution for drink driving. If it is a grey area, it is best left alone.
As for a rally on a car park, as soon as the contract has been signed for the private hire of the space, and the legally required signage is erected to show that the rally is being held under exemption, it is no longer a public place.
Gerry


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I am not trying to be awkward but there are circumstances where the police may become involved if an accident happens on the roadways inside a campsite and the driver may be drunk.

I have not heard of an actual accident or offence being pursued but licensed campsites operate under a vast array of rules and regulations and in those there is always the reminder to the site owner that the roadways on the site are subject to the same laws that rule our highways when it comes to the law.

This is only a scenario,.... If a camper has used a vehicle to drive to the campsite restaurant or bar and then after drinking more than the allowed amount he is involved in an incident on the site roadways the police may well be called and they will most likely breathalise the driver and use the normal highway law to prosecute him/her if he is over the limit.

I have never suggested that the police are going to start patroling around campsites looking for drinkers in motorhomes. :roll:

Mike

P.S. go to this PDF and look at "not on a public highway " bit page 3

http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/facts/drink_driving_defences.pdf


----------



## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

Mike - please be assured there is no way I would feel you were being awkward in your posts. On the contrary, this is a fascinating subject for discussion and an excellent way to while away these cold, dark evenings when we are safely tucked up at home with a large dram and no intention of driving anywhere!

The scenario you paint of someone driving from a club bar/restaurant back to their pitch whilst inebriated is not impossible to imagine, although of course it would be very irresponsible whatever the legality. I suppose in the event of an incident/accident under these circumstances, the campsite management might contact the police, as this might help if they were intending to claim from the camper for any damage caused*. I would suggest, however, that GerryD's assessment is on the nail though, the chances of the police wanting to get involved in such an extremely grey area as this I would suggest as being nil. Unless of course someone was seriously injured or killed as a result, which is not impossible.

Interesting to speculate - if I had my time over I'd have trained in law as there's lots of money to be made in these sort of unusual cases. 

* I'm not sure whether the driver's insurance would cover this - perhaps if he/she was actually prosecuted it would help the driver's case as the insurer couldn't then say it hadn't happened on the highway!


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Never ever, in 30 years did I hear of a case of a motorhomere being done for drunk in charge whn parked up on a forecourt. Its just too difficult to PROVE what the persons intentions were.

Its a bit like saying you are sitting in your house (half cut) and your MH is out on the street so you MIGHT drive it. Its a POSSIBILITY but its impossible to prove it and thats what must be done to gain a conviction.

Been covered a hundred times before, stop worrying (I certainly dont!!) and enjoy yourself, just be sensible and if on a pub forecourt etc tuck the keys out of sight and DONT EVER put them in the ignition.


----------



## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Cheers Roger ...

he says wondering whether to have another G&T or go straight on to the red that I shall have in a mo with dinner. :wink:

I suppose I should come clean and declare that the scenario was not completly "made up" ... I know a site where this was happening, certain regular campers were often seen to be driving their cars ( caravanners I guess :wink: ) to the clubhouse and then driving back later "under the influence". Some of the other campers complained to the management, advice was taken, warnings were issued but the police although *very keen *to "help" were never directly involved.

Mike


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Parking in pub car parks is a nightmare for me. It just ends up in a catch 22. You get hammered, fall Into bed and the by the time you wake up you look out the window and there's a pub outside! Your stuffed as you have a hair of the dog and can't drive again so may as well go back in the evening and the whole thing starts again! Never mind worrying about the coppers (who couldnt care less) it's the mrs I worry about when your allowed out for a one night pass and come back a week later when the pub finally runs dry. Maybe it's just me.

On a serious note I've been wild camped in Scotland in an off road layby by the sea sat with a beer next to the van and the coppers pulled in for a chat. I was well over the limit and all they wanted to know was stuff avout the van as one of them wanted one. Even offered them a drink.


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Police*



GerryD said:


> Unless anyone hadn't noticed, the Police are already overstretched. There is no way that they would contemplate testing the water by attempting to prosecute any person sitting in a motor vehicle with no keys in the ignition and therefore no present attempt to drive. Start the engine and that may be a different matter. However they would still wait until the driver had tried to access the public highway, which the pub car park is definitely not.
> Finally, no Police officer is going to enter a campsite, or a showground in the hopes of getting a prosecution for drink driving. If it is a grey area, it is best left alone.
> As for a rally on a car park, as soon as the contract has been signed for the private hire of the space, and the legally required signage is erected to show that the rally is being held under exemption, it is no longer a public place.
> Gerry


Was discussed Here

And Dougie "ASPRN" if I remember correctly, made some mention of having booked a motorhomer in a lay by. Think the story was, motorhomer was having a BBQ and a couple of cans. Motorhomers story was that he was going to stay overnight. But Seem to recall him getting booked.

TM


----------



## organplayer (Jan 1, 2012)

*organplayer*

On our last but one visit to Nordcap we, with our travelling friends, wilded on the side of the street in Trondheim opposite the Police HQ. Having been warned of the strict drink drive laws, we had no alcohol with us at all, or so we thought. Our friend came into our van and from under his coat produced a part bottle of whisky, saying "look what I have just found" Quick as a flash managment got four cups and saucers out of the cupboard, put them on the table and out of sight of any onlookers , put some of the whisky in the teapot. The whisky was then poured from the teapot into the cups. To any nosey what nots, we wuzz having a cup of rosie. I stress we only had the minutest drop, but did we enjoy it. As for pub car parks, management takes the keys off me and refuses to tell me where they are until next day.


----------

