# Tyres cracking advice needed



## teljoy

Hi Folks


I apologise now for another tyre thread but at least it's motorhome related!


I've had an Autosleeper Nuevo 2.2 since 2006 and it's maximum permissible weight is 3400kgs.
It had Michelin Camping tyres fitted 215/70/R15C , load 1030 109/107/Q of which I replaced 4 in April 2010 because the side walls were cracking. These were Michelin Agilis Camping tyres, same size but different name Agilis instead of XC (I think).


They have run with pressures of 60psi front and 65psi rear. They now are showing signs of cracking around the circumference of the sidewall about a centimetre from the treads (not on the treads but on the sidewall). There are one or two vertical cracks around the sidewall (not so significant). 


To give you an indication of the seriousness of the problem and how I noticed it. I had a few days in Cornwall and was sitting in a field with a glass of wine and a good book . As always I got up to look at the tyres closely as they are now 5 years old (1510) on the sidewall. The treads are fine but on looking at the tyres I could see these cracks around the circumference. They are not visible from a distance but now I've seen them I can spot them immediately.


As we are off to France in six weeks I think I ought to replace them now. It will have to be five tyres this time as the spare is the original about ten years old.


Now the question, I know the camping tyres are different with stronger and more flexible sidewalls for weight and standing around in fields but the Michelin prices are horrendous. As an aside I know that price isn't important where safety is concerned and if nothing else is available will probably pay the money £650.


I would like to get some opinion and advice from you guys as to alternatives , Continental, Hanook, Aygo? Etc., Etc..


That's it I hope you can help before I spend my money.


Thanks
Terry


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## Pudsey_Bear

Being a tight arse  I just go for the cheapest tyres I can find, but do try to get them from somewhere I've at least heard of, online now seems to be the cheapest place but you may get older tyres that way.

Bear in mind tyres are made to a standard, I've had Hankook before but they're just another name, any van tyre of the correct rating should cope well, check recommended pressures when buying as they can vary I believe from tyre to tyre.

*These don't look too bad*, check compatibility though


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## listerdiesel

Hankook are good tyres, we've used them for some years on our trailers with no problems at all.

Camskill sell tyres online, I've had some very good deals from them, but you have to arrange your own fitting and balancing.

Get commercial tyres, 10ply rating with a C after the size as per your originals, C is for Commercial, not Camper :grin2:

Peter


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## TheNomad

Another vote here for just standard Commercial van tyres.

Tyres on motorhomes will mostly always need changing because of age rather than mileage wear.
There aren't too many that cover much serious mileage over the (say) 5 years before the rubber degradation due to exposure to air causes the compounds to become friable, and thus cracking to appear.


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## listerdiesel

Sub-£70 for a few of them:

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s501...yres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_215_70_15_215_70R15

Go up to a 225/70R15C and this one looks good:

Nexen Tyres / Van / Nexen CP321 Classe Premiere Nexen CP 321 - 225/70 R15 C 112R TL (Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: C NoiseClass: 2 Noise: 72dB) £64.65 inc VAT but delivery extra.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s524...yres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_225_70_15_225_70R15

We have Nexen 255/65R16's on the Discovery, nearly half the price of Pirelli Scorpions and twice the durability.

Peter


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## gaspode

Every set of Michelin camping tyres we've had has gone exactly the same way, the set on our current van started cracking after less than 3 years. In my opinion that makes them "unfit for purpose".

I've always replaced them with standard commercial tyres, 10ply if possible. This time I had some Avon van tyres fitted (my tyre man had some in stock at a very attractive price). They're absolutely fine, the van handles better and road noise is reduced.

No contest in my mind.


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## 113016

Our Hymer Exsis came when new, fitted with Continental Vanco Commercial tyres.
Had the van now for over three years without any problems, and after nearly 17K miles, wear is slight, and is considerably less than we had with the Michelin Agilis Camping tyres for similar mileage!.

Incidentally, I carry a Hancook as a spare as it was cheaper!


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## raynipper

How do these prices compare and get them fitted in France.................
http://www.oxyo-pneus.fr/taille-pneus/-----utilitaire/

Ray.


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## teljoy

Thanks to all of you who have replied and taken the time to provide links. Very useful advice and really shows the benefits of this forum despite what some may think.

Having also spoken to my local garage that I have known for at least 25 years I have settled for 5 Avon AV9 van tyres for about £97.00 inc Vat. and fully fitted. So under £500 as compared with £650 for the Michelin.

They will be in next week. Thanks to all.
Terry


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## teljoy

Ray
Thanks for the link. If those prices include Vat and Fitting they are good. 

However I have just ordered some. Thanks

Terry


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## Pudsey_Bear

teljoy said:


> Ray
> Thanks for the link. If those prices include Vat and Fitting they are good.
> 
> However I have just ordered some. Thanks
> 
> Terry


That'll learn you to be patient, this site sometimes takes a while to respond, but when it does, it can warm your heart


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## gaspode

teljoy said:


> I have settled for 5 Avon AV9 van tyres


That's what we fitted last year, no problems with them so far.


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## teljoy

gaspode said:


> That's what we fitted last year, no problems with them so far.


When I spoke to my tyre man I had already read your post and he recommended
them also so the decision was made. Thanks gaspode.


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## spykal

Hi Teljoy

Once you have the new tyres fitted think about how you can stop or slow down the cracking. I learnt the hard way that sunlight can damage motorhome tyres... on our previous van the two tyres that sat in the sun all day deteriorated and cracked long before they wore while the ones on the shady side were fine. Since that happened and I replaced them I have always covered the tyres that are on the sunny south facing side while it is on the drive at home. My covers are nothing fancy just a bit of old underlay! but the 4 year old tyres ( Michelin) are not cracked at all...yet:wink2:

Interesting "how to stop your tyres cracking" article <<Click

I also lifted all four wheels off my newly laid asphalt drive after it was laid last year .... apparently parking long term on new tarmac can cause cracks too :wink2: ( see article)


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## gaspode

spykal said:


> Once you have the new tyres fitted think about how you can stop or slow down the cracking.


I don't think there'll be any need to stop them cracking Mike - the Avons won't crack prematurely. Well at least according to my tyre expert they won't.

He says that the sidewall cracking problem is exclusive to Michelin Camper tyres, something to do with the sidewall construction. My experience has confirmed that opinion, I've had badly cracked sidewalls in less than 4 years twice on M/H tyres, both times with Michelin Camper tyres. No other tyre (including Continental Campers) that I've had has developed sidewall cracks before the treads have worn.

He also says that the sidewall cracks are unlikely to affect the safety of the tyres, just unsightly, however he won't put that in writing will he?:wink2:


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## Zebedee

That's a good trick!

Spykal liked the previous post twice!! :surprise:

How did he do that??


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## spykal

Ein Doppelgänger


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## Ozzyjohn

No idea about the double thanking 

I too thought that sunlight was a contributor to ageing - and I still do, but. . .

Our moho had Michelins on from new (or at least from when we got it at 2 and a bit years old) - the sidewalls were cracked and there was some cracking between the threads when we replaced them last year. The interesting bit (maybe) is that the cracking was equally evident on all seven tyres - including the spare which (as far as we could tell) had never been removed from the central, between the rear chassis rails, location. I wouldn't imagine it would ever have seen much sunlight. 


Regards,
John


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## gaspode

Ozzyjohn said:


> I too thought that sunlight was a contributor to ageing - and I still do, but. . .


I quite agree John

We've always kept our M/Hs in the same place. One side is open to sunlight and the other is up against a wall so gets no sun. Michelin tyres on both sides seem to deteriorate at a similar rate but strangely enough the inner walls seem to deteriorate more slowly than the exterior walls.
No other tyres I've ever owned have ever suffered from sidewall crack except Michelin camper tyres so there MUST be something about them that makes them more susceptible to sidewall cracking. The extra stiffness of the walls may be a contributory factor but it's hard to understand why the stiffness should be the sole cause (especially if spare tyres under the van are affected). Our last Michelin spare was stored in the garage and that never suffered any sidewall cracks which indicates UV failure.

I've scrapped low mileage 3yr old tyres with 7 or 8mm left on the tread in the past because of this sidewall problem, like I said earlier, "not fit for purpose" comes to mind.


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## teljoy

Thanks to all who have replied with advice. It is interesting that so many Michelin problems have come to light.

I have had problems with Michelin before including these that I am changing now. I park at home on my drive with one side very close to a wall and the tyres on the exposed side have always been covered with plywood and secured. I do not now believe it is the sunlight but is Michelin related.
For the benefit of others I had regularly checked the tyres on the drive at home. As mentioned in an earlier post it only became noticable last week when parked in a field. I had to look quite closely and it was then obvious. If you read my post and check where I have described you may be surprised, that is, if you have Michelins.

Terry


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## 96299

Hi All
I would just like to jump in here if I may and ask if my six wheeler (Burstner Argos) would also be fine with normal commercial van tyres, or should I opt for "motorhome" specific one's? 

My tryes now are Michelin camping one's and have got some very heavy cracking going on, so need replacing ASAP.

The van is a 5 tonner fully loaded by the way. Thanks

Steve


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## gaspode

Why should an extra pair of wheels make any difference?

As long as the tyres are correctly rated for the load being carried I don't see what difference it makes.

But don't take my word for it, go see a good tyre specialist, that's what I do. They'll explain all the options and should know what they're doing much better than us amateurs.


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## 96299

gaspode said:


> But don't take my word for it, go see a good tyre specialist, that's what I do. They'll explain all the options and should know what they're doing much better than us amateurs.


Cheers gaspode, I will do:wink2:

Steve


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## teljoy

*Update on tyres .Wrong Max Pressure apparently??*



teljoy said:


> Thanks to all of you who have replied and taken the time to provide links. Very useful advice and really shows the benefits of this forum despite what some may think.
> 
> Having also spoken to my local garage that I have known for at least 25 years I have settled for 5 Avon AV9 van tyres for about £97.00 inc Vat. and fully fitted. So under £500 as compared with £650 for the Michelin.
> 
> They will be in next week. Thanks to all.
> Terry


Just got back from the garage who were going to fit the tyres. Apparently these will not cope with the load. The guy states that the maximum pressure allowed is 65psi (which is what I inflate the rears to).

The tyres he got in were;
Avon AV9 215/70/15C 109/107/R 8ply

The Michelins as I explained to him were;

Michelin Agilis Camping Tyres 215/70/R15CP load 1030 109/107Q 
These take a maximum of 80psi.

They cannot find listed any Avon that will take up to 80psi?

I have to have tyres that will support inflating to at least 65psi.

Anyone have any comments?

Terry


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## 113016

tel, the Continental Vanco, which I mentioned earlier in the thread, go up to 70 psi and I have run the rears at 70 for over three years.

215/75 R16C
113/111R
1150kg
2535 IBS


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## teljoy

Graham
Thanks for the info.
Terry


Thanks for the additional info.


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## 113016

Tel, as you posted, I edited with more info


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## cabby

I have also gone with Continental tyres, they are much quieter and cheaper than the michelin. I think it is like clothes, one does not have to buy the label.:wink2:

cabby


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## TheNomad

teljoy said:


> Just got back from the garage who were going to fit the tyres. Apparently these will not cope with the load. The guy states that the maximum pressure allowed is 65psi (which is what I inflate the rears to).
> 
> The tyres he got in were;
> Avon AV9 215/70/15C 109/107/R 8ply
> 
> The Michelins as I explained to him were;
> 
> Michelin Agilis Camping Tyres 215/70/R15CP load 1030 109/107Q
> These take a maximum of 80psi.
> 
> They cannot find listed any Avon that will take up to 80psi?
> 
> I have to have tyres that will support inflating to at least 65psi.
> 
> Anyone have any comments?
> 
> Terry


Just as a matter of interest Terry, why do you say that you have to have tyres that will support being inflated to at least 65psi?

I may be missing something here, but surely, you just want tyres with a sufficient load index to be able to cope with the weight that they will be carrying? Different tyres may do that at different pressures.

The "max inflation" markings on the tyrewall are just that, maximums. 
Running at something lower than that is fine and potentially significantly safer, so long as the tyre profile looks right when it sits on the road. (ie just a little bulge at the contact point with the road)


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## 113016

cabby said:


> I have also gone with Continental tyres, they are much quieter and cheaper than the michelin. I think it is like clothes, one does not have to buy the label.:wink2:
> 
> cabby


They do seem to last for ever, much longer than the Michelin Agylis 
Our rears are hardly worn and the fronts are worn less than 50% and that is with 17 k miles.
The old Michelin XC Camping did last, apart from cracks, but the Agylis were a softer compound and wore much quicker.
I had no cracking with the Agylis I had, and I put this down to the softer rubber, but they did wear down quickly!


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## rayc

teljoy said:


> J
> 
> They cannot find listed any Avon that will take up to 80psi?
> 
> Anyone have any comments?
> 
> Terry


Perhaps the Avon tyres do not need 80psi for the loads you are subjecting them to? if the Avon tyres load rating is sufficient i.e 110/112 then there is a recommended pressure throughout the loading band.
Incidentally I was at Highbridge motorhomes looking at the Chausson range. You could order with either a Fiat or Transit base vehicle. I noticed that the Fiats had CP tyres whilst the Transits had C ones. Does this make the Transits less suitable as a MH base?


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## 113016

rayc said:


> I noticed that the Fiats had CP tyres whilst the Transits had C ones. Does this make the Transits less suitable as a MH base?


All, I can say about that Ray, is that having owned two previous generation Fiat's, out Exsis is on a Transit base, and I am very happy with it.
One of the reasons I went for it was that it has no cam belt. OK I know some of the others don't!
And when it gets old enough to need spares, they are readily available and probably cheaper than Fiat!


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## rayc

Grath said:


> All, I can say about that Ray, is that having owned two previous generation Fiat's, out Exsis is on a Transit base, and I am very happy with it.
> One of the reasons I went for it was that it has no cam belt. OK I know some of the others don't!
> And when it gets old enough to need spares, they are readily available and probably cheaper than Fiat!


The answer to my question is of course that Transit's are a good base vehicle and the fitting of CP or C tyres makes no difference whatsoever. I also noted that the large A class Hymer and Rapidos on Merc chassis also have C tyres fitted. Is it only Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot vehicles that are fitted with CP tyres at manufacture? Is there any financial tie up between them and Continental/Michelin regarding CP tyres?


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## 113016

rayc said:


> The answer to my question is of course that Transit's are a good base vehicle and the fitting of CP or C tyres makes no difference whatsoever. I also noted that the large A class Hymer and Rapidos on Merc chassis also have C tyres fitted. Is it only Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot vehicles that are fitted with CP tyres at manufacture? Is there any financial tie up between them and Continental/Michelin regarding CP tyres?


ray, I have always been a Michelin fan as when I was trucking throughout Europe, we did run on Michelins and believe me, sometimes the tarmac was red hot, and we had very few failures, mostly were running at around 40 ton
I did think the Agylis had better grip than the XC Camping, but I did notice much quicker wear. When I first had my Exsis, it came with Continentals and I did know they were good as when I was working, our service vans run on them.
My thoughts were to replace with Mich, but lately, I think I will most probably stick with Continental.


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## teljoy

rayc said:


> Perhaps the Avon tyres do not need 80psi for the loads you are subjecting them to? if the Avon tyres load rating is sufficient i.e 110/112 then there is a recommended pressure throughout the loading band.
> Incidentally I was at Highbridge motorhomes looking at the Chausson range. You could order with either a Fiat or Transit base vehicle. I noticed that the Fiats had CP tyres whilst the Transits had C ones. Does this make the Transits less suitable as a MH base?


Thanks Rayc, Nomad and all,

I had not considered that just because my michelins were inflated to 60psi front and 65 psi rear (max80psi) that other tyres could be inflated lower if the load rating was suitable.
My michelins were 215/70/R15C load 1030 109/107/Q (max psi80) 
So perhaps these that were ordered may be suitable

Avon AV9 215/70/15C 109/107R 8ply (max 65psi)??
The motorhome weight is 3400kg allowed.

I may be going back to the garage but it was the tyre guy that said they would not be good enough??

Terry


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## Carl_n_Flo

We have Continental Vanco's on our Cheyenne 696G (3.8T) and, as far as I am aware, they have been on there since new in 2005.

225/70/R15C 112/110 R max 65psi

The mileage is now 47k or thereabouts, and I have to say I am really, really impressed with them. They show very little wear on either the fronts or rears (rear wheel drive) and absolutley NO cracking or other degredation.

I would guess that, at 10 years old, I should really replace them...but to look at them you would say they are new!!!

I do look after them though - they are always protected from sunlight when parked up and are cleaned and de-stoned regularly.

Just under £500 for a set of 4, fitted and balanced, by National Tyre if ordered online.

Methinks I need to bite the bullet!!!!


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## teljoy

Carl_n_Flo said:


> We have Continental Vanco's on our Cheyenne 696G (3.8T) and, as far as I am aware, they have been on there since new in 2005.
> 
> 225/70/R15C 112/110 R max 65psi
> 
> The mileage is now 47k or thereabouts, and I have to say I am really, really impressed with them. They show very little wear on either the fronts or rears (rear wheel drive) and absolutley NO cracking or other degredation.
> 
> I would guess that, at 10 years old, I should really replace them...but to look at them you would say they are new!!!
> 
> I do look after them though - they are always protected from sunlight when parked up and are cleaned and de-stoned regularly.
> 
> Just under £500 for a set of 4, fitted and balanced, by National Tyre if ordered online.
> 
> Methinks I need to bite the bullet!!!!


Thanks Carl
That is really useful to know. Have a look at www.blackcircles.com as there are some I was looking at and 5 Continental Vanco tyres would cost me £450 delivered to my garage. It's worth seeing what they would do for you!

Terry


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## gaspode

My Avon AV9s are marked as 1030kg max load at 66psi max.
I run them at 62psi rear and 60psi front, van MPLM 3500kg. I can't recall the exact max axle loads but they're both less than 2000kg so where's the problem?
My tyre supplier considered them quite suitable.


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## teljoy

gaspode said:


> My Avon AV9s are marked as 1030kg max load at 66psi max.
> I run them at 62psi rear and 60psi front, van MPLM 3500kg. I can't recall the exact max axle loads but they're both less than 2000kg so where's the problem?
> My tyre supplier considered them quite suitable.


Hi Gaspode

Thanks for the info.. The guy who said they were unsuitable was only looking at the original michelins and trying to match the Avons against 80psi.

I don't think there is a problem but I will wait to speak with the guy who ordered them for me as he is on holiday and will be back on Monday.
Using your figures I don't think my pressures will be any different to yours.

Terry


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## 113016

I have just checked our Continental Tyre pressure settings and we run the Front at 60 psi and the rear at 70 psi.
Both of these are a little above Continentals recommendation of 51 psi for the front and 65 for the rear.
I prefer them a little hard as they run cooler and probably a little better mpg>


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## TheNomad

Terry - I think things are maybe getting a little complicated.

Essentially all you need to know is what your front and rear axle(s) weights are when you're fully loaded. (Weighbridge).

Then divide each axle weight in half to get the loading on each wheel.

Then find any brand of tyres that have a load index (it's printed on the sidewall) that is GREATER than that wheel loading weight......if you google you can find charts that tell you the maximum weights that a tyre with a load index of 112, 114, 116 etc etc are.

Check what the maximum inflation pressure is allowed for that tyre (it's printed on the sidewall).

Each to their own, but I personally would always reject a "new" tyre with a manufactured date more than 6 months ago, as the rubber compounds in tyres do begin to degrade the moment they leave the mould and are exosed to air.
The date is a four digit number on the sidewall, the first two digits being the week number (starting in January) and the last two numbers being the year....so 4714 means made in week 47 of 2014.

Inflate each to the point where there is just a slight bulge at the bottom when it sits on the road, but always ensuring that you don't go above the maximum inflation psi number.

If the ride feels harsh, take a few psi out.


NB. I see LOADS of tyres on motorhomes that are patently inflated to far too high a pressure. The psi number on the sidewall is the maximum that tyre can take, not the target! 
If there's no slight bulge in the sidewalls at the road contact point, and the tread is visibly bulging across it's width, you've got them too highly inflated.

Remember, it's the Load Index that matters, not inflating to the maximum inflation pressure the tyre can take.


Hope this helps...


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## acctutor

*Tyre LI and max load*

Hi Grath,

Having spent many months fighting Frankia over some tyre problems, I would make the point that the recommended load on a tyre should be no more than 85% of the max load. This is the advice from the AA, TyreSafe and ETRTA (European Tyre Rim Trade Association). So two tyres with a max load of 1030 kg each, would have a recommended running load of 1751kg for the pair. So the four would take 3502kg, HOWEVER, in many cases the rear axle is more heavily loaded than the front, and so the load on the rear could be more than recommended?

Might be worth checking the actual axle loads to see if you are within the 85% load recommendation?

Regards

Bill & Patsy

P.S. I have just replaced the rear tyres as they were running at between 95% and 98%, and getting so hot that the pressures were up to 95 psi!!!!!


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## MeFeinMcCabe

I'm just about to replace my Goodyear Cargo G26 tyres on my Elddis Sunseeker for exactly the same reason as the OP. The tyres are the original van tyres and have been on there since new about 10 years.

I'm replacing with Michelin Agelis tyres sourced through blackcircles.com fully fitted at £69 a tyre. The Michelin's according to the EU labelling are better in the wet and more fuel efficient, loosing out on road noise slightly.


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## powerplus

hi guys
a couple of days ago i was onto continental about tyres

and that they crack

technical said that a small amount of cracking is not a problem

tyres are made from multi layers of rubber and it is the top layer drying out from uv

they also sent me a e,mail with tyre sizes and ratings that i can e,mail if needed as i dont know where to put it on this site

barry


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