# What else could go wrong?



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)




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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Why wouldn't that have been just fine I wonder?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Thin ice.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Is it really Ray? Why would it be? We'd just say she instead of he, some religious broadcasters already do, to redress the balance I assume.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

I’ll melt Ray’s ice a little, perhaps a non-white female. 🔥 🙂

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sorry Terry not getting into that, I thought thin ice said it all and then you just confirmed.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I don’t think he was white skinned.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't think she existed.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Blimey, we have only just got women into high office in the church don't put the cat among the pigeons with more theories. What about gay or transgender - the list goes on


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I imagine you have read quite a bit about if he ever lived Alan.
According to Historian he did and they say he changed the world, but who was he really, a very clever young man or?

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/sci...azareth-actually-exist-the-evidence-says-yes/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

and.....

Without wishing or intending to cause ANY offence to anyone, I am reminded of the *JOKE , *reminder *JOKE * I was told......

_When the first of the Shepherds came into the low roofed manger to see the Babe laying there (not the same as Johnson LIEING there and everywhere else), the Shepherd banged his head HARD into the very low roof....

"Jesus Christ" he shoulted in pain as he grasped his head,

"That's a better name than Arthur, which we had chosen" said Joseph....._

I'll get my coat, but reminder, no offence intended....

I always used to enjoy being under ice, some of it quite thick.... but better in an 8mm dry suit than a 4mm wet suit....


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes Jean I have. Whether there was a chap called Jesus Christ is one thing. Whether the chap intended to be the saviour and all that goes with that is quite another, that's the bit I don't believe.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Whoever he was I´m sure he had a sense of humour Dave.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Yes Jean I have. Whether there was a chap called Jesus Christ is one thing. Whether the chap intended to be the saviour and all that goes with that is quite another, that's the bit I don't believe.


Since when has Jean been in this conversation :laugh: That was my point Alan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

JanHank said:


> Since when has Jean been in this conversation :laugh: That was my point Alan.


Good question Jan. Sorry.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Whats in a name..??

George.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Whats in a name..??
> 
> George.


George has got 6 letters mine only 3 :kiss:


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> George has got 6 letters mine only 3 :kiss:


Try again, I think your count should be 5 :grin2:

Piers


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Or..............................





Loretta .


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

dghr272 said:


> Try again, I think your count should be 5 :grin2:
> 
> Piers


It might not be, I could be Jane or Jannette or Janice, for all you know I could call myself some other name to throw anyone who is looking for me off the track. >


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> It might not be, I could be Jane or Jannette or Janice, for all you know I could call myself some other name to throw anyone who is looking for me off the track. >


IF you say so.:wink2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well we all believe what be believe

And hopefully we don’t intend to upset others by our belief

Or maybe we don’t care

I hope we do

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Have Christians ever cared what others thought about their views Sandra?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Have Christians ever cared what others thought about their views Sandra?


They certainly have and do.....


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I don’t know, have they Alan , and does that mean we don’t have to?

You would also ridicule Mohammed ?

And why not the Hindu beliefs?

Gosh now we have started we could ridicule such a lot across the world 

But I wonder do those who believe outnumber those who dont?

Still sheeples comes to mind

You think they are all sheeples?

Sandra


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> They certainly have and do.....


That's interesting Dave.

Could you perhaps provide an example where Christians have been effected by what others thought.

It's my impression that they go their own way, even to the point of martyrdom, in spite of what others think, but I admit that my comment was throw away so I am certainly open to correction.

Let me have it. I'm interested.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Go back in history.....

Henry VIII did not like what the Pope thought of him....

So he started his own version of Christianity....

Judas Iscariot was a follower of Jesus, he betrayed him for money, regretted what others thought afterwards and killed himself.....

There you are two that even you should be aware of...

Most Christians show their care every day towards others, your original "throw away" question was about if Christians ever cared what others thought. The short answer is yes, but of course, it is easy to knock...


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Even you? Dave! What does that mean?

It's a bit disparaging. 

But let's consider for a moment.

I am aware of both but might you be shooting yoursef in the the foot just a bit?

I would be surprised if anyone offered them as model Christians. Perfect examples of christians off the rails but that's not what we are talking about. Is it?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You did not ask about "perfect" Christians, are you trying to change your question now ?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Hello, this has turned into a strange conversation, it started off as a joke and the joke seems to be turning sour.

There is a song, "Why should the devil have all the good music" Well why should the devil have all the good jokes. God is supposed to be all loving if there is a god I´m sure he would like to laugh as well.

You can discuss religion until you´re blue in the face, but whatever you think is your choice and unless you´re an evangelist who wants to spread the good word let´s just stick to that. 
Although I no longer have a belief I would say it is still the good word, there is nothing bad about it and it brings comfort to many.

The end of todays sermon.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Hey look he´s got my glasses on :grin2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

My question was.



erneboy said:


> Could you perhaps provide an example where Christians have been effected by what others thought.


However it was badly worded. Everybody is always open to being effected by what others think. Judas took the money because it was though that would motivate him, and it did. Thus I agree he was effected by what others thought.

It was thought by the Church that Old Henry's proposed marital arrangements were unacceptable and that certainly effected what he did too.

Effected was the wrong word to have used. I should have asked about being persuaded to change their minds. I didn't do very well with the use of the word model either. I meant model as in example, but it too was open to misunderstanding. I should have said example.

I apologise for being unclear. In my defence I will point out that I did say say it was a throw away, just a passing thought if you like. I shouldn't have done that I should have taken the time to ask exactly what I wanted to know.

I'd still like to know what "even you" was intended to mean.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Good morning Alan 🤗.
Good morning readers 🙂.
Today is the third Sunday in Advent and I will light the third candle, not for any religious reason, but as tradition for the past umpteen years and for my own memory. 
My house and windows have more little lights this year than for the past few years, the window ones cheer up the dark outside for people driving past and those looking out of their windows on the other road, the ones inside, including the tree, look pretty just for me.
The silly season will soon be over, although it won’t be quite as silly this year and won’t be dragged out as long as normally, probably.
For most of us it will be the Pagen Yule tide we celebrate, only 12 days to go and the days light hours will start getting longer, just as I start getting used to the long dark nights. 🤩


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Good morning Jan. Lovely sunny day here. Hope it's a good day round your way too.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Good morning Jan. Lovely sunny day here. Hope it's a good day round your way too.


Do I have an invitation 😃?
I haven't seen the sun or the Moon for days, the sky is just grey not a clear bit to be seen, nice and warm in the house though.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Certainly you do.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm packing.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

OK, bring your mask Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I´m going to be selfish and take over this thread for a minute.

There are so many things I have in my head that I _could _have done this Christmas, home to England and my family, it´s just been confirmed I would have an invitation to Spain :grin2:
Blu had suggested we might meet in France and travel down to Spain and maybe Portugal, I could have gone anywhere that my little lad could have come with me, but I wonder if I would.
Last year I was with Heike 650km away from here, it was good to be with other people at that particular time, I made a video and called it "Where will I be this time next year" I honestly didn´t think it would be here, but circumstances have changed and even if I had wanted to be somewhere else, you all know the rest, we´re all stuck for the time being, but I am not unhappy, I feel a bit alone at times, but soon shake myself out of that. Goodness knows what I would have done if I hadn´t learnt how to use a computer in 2007.

So carry on the conversation and be nice to each other. X :laugh:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

erneboy said:


> My question was.
> 
> I'd still like to know what "even you" was intended to mean.


Simple throw away statement by me too, you often ask people posting views that you do not like to provide evidence of what they are saying.

My comment was simply that no research would be needed by anyone who has any understanding of history for those two examples - they are very obvious suggestions.

But, the even you was a throw away comment too...


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I've just blown out the 3 advent candles and thought I'd tell you something else.

I was very active in the Methodist church, I think I have told you that before.

Things I did enjoy at this time of year were---

When I was a teenager, carol singing with the Chapel and collecting donations for Children's homes.

Candle lit carol services and the midnight service Christmas Eve. 

I will be listening to a few carols and sing along as usual and watch (if I can find it with this new satellite receiver I have) Christmas shows on TV, the Germans do really lovely Christmas and New year stuff, I suppose this year they will all be repeats though.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> Simple throw away statement by me too, you often ask people posting views that you do not like to provide evidence of what they are saying.
> 
> My comment was simply that no research would be needed by anyone who has any understanding of history for those two examples - they are very obvious suggestions.
> 
> But, the even you was a throw away comment too...


Ah. I see. You knew mine was because I said so as I made it. Since you didn't say so I took your remark at at face value. I even admitted my error and corrected it, rather than try to pass it off.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Which is exactly the same as I have done.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Is it? I completely missed any apology.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We have a Methodist church in our village Jan. My daughter used to go to Sunday school there and us parents would be invited to watch the children give readings or act out the Nativity. Always a very welcoming bunch of people. I went to sing some carols last Christmas but did not recognise many of them. It is very poorly attended now  Once the old people die off I imagine it will close.
We also have a Church of England village church and a thriving Baptist church run by a lovely couple who do lots of kind things for the village. I might go to their open air carol service tonight. All socially distanced of course 

Is there a church where you live?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Yes, the CofE use the local RC Church once a month normally, although not a lot recently.

There was a service last week which we did not attend as we are socially distancing, even though you had to book a place, wear a mask throughout and sat in pre-arranged seats. We still felt the risk outweighed the advantage of interaction.

To me, Christianity is not attending a Church regularly (although normally we do try) but living with care for others. (Thanks Jan for pointing out Care for others, not Scare...) That is something we have strived to maintain throughout the pandemic, difficult though it has been. We have done shopping for others when needed and offered advice re medical problems when asked.

The fact that the RC community never use the Church and it would normally just fall apart, is negated by the Commune's responsibility to maintain it - which they do assiduously, even though France is a non-secular society - very odd dichotomy of actions. The same applies to thousands of small unused RC Churches where the house where a Priest would have used to live, next door to the Church, is allowed to disintegrate. So houses are NOT maintained, but unused Churches ARE. Try explaining that one - I cannot.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

You might be in time to alter your SCARE to CARE Dave if you´re quick. Third paragraph


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I suppose at the time of Christ’s birth it would have been more or less impossible to have been a girl saviour in such a male oriented society

Of course God has no gender as we understand it but a combination of male/female essence ,if we are to believe we were created in His/Her image 

Of course it is possible to believe He/She she was created in our image, and many do 

Certainly all the major ( and minor) religions were created in our image, have all the flaws, strengths and the beauty of mankind, and of nature 

The beauty of Christmas is of expectation, joy and wonderment , a time of peace and goodwill in our hearts 

The giving of gifts is our expression of that 

Someone on Christmas Day will work for no monetary reward to ensure the poor and homeless are fed, many like you and I will donate to ensure children however poor will not be forgotten by Santa this Christmas, and some one will distribute those gifts

It may normally be a whirlwind of gluttony and commercialism , but for many it is a time to remember that...

“unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and HIS NAME shall be called, Wonderful, Councillor, Almighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace “ (King James Bible) 

May the spirit of Christmas remain with us all throughout the year 

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> We have a Methodist church in our village Jan.
> Is there a church where you live?


This is a Protestant area Pat, you don´t have to go far for a church, not Methodist.
In the next village is what they nickname the Dome , I can see the spire when we walk behind the farm in fact I could see it from here on a clear day if all the trees weren´t in the way. 
The first year we were her we went to a service on Christmas eve, we were advised to take a cushion and blanket with us and a jolly good job we did, it was freezing nothing like the Methodist Churches we were used to. Never been again.
I´m not sure if they have had heating installed, but they have a new bell >


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thank you Sandra for that superb post, I hesitate to say it, but one of your best of all time IMO.

You have summed up why and how there are failings in every religion and why one of the most important expressions of human society is identifying and trying to help the weakest members of our community.

May we share the Peace this Christmas and throughout, hopefully, a better 2021.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Unto us a child is born, means so much to us

This should really be on the Israeli thread

Our twins were due around Christmas , we couldn’t afford the regular health checks, but we did pay for one 

Only one baby we were told

But if so I said to Albert it must be an Octopus, it has far too many arms and legs

They were born three weeks early, and we were buying Christmas cards not so easy to find in Jerusalem 

The ones we found had the words “unto us a child is born”

So our Christmas cards announced the birth of the twins and Christmas greetings back in England in one go

Saved on stamps and we had little money anyway

But for many of us we have experienced that joy when once or more times when 

Unto us a child is born , and his/ her name is called wonderful , marvellous, even if we finally name them in my case Petra and Simone 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

What a lovely memory Sandra


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Best part of 2020.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338840322940547073
Terry


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

JanHank said:


> This is a Protestant area Pat, you don´t have to go far for a church, not Methodist.
> In the next village is what they nickname the Dome , I can see the spire when we walk behind the farm in fact I could see it from here on a clear day if all the trees weren´t in the way.
> The first year we were her we went to a service on Christmas eve, we were advised to take a cushion and blanket with us and a jolly good job we did, it was freezing nothing like the Methodist Churches we were used to. Never been again.
> I´m not sure if they have had heating installed, but they have a new bell >


When we spent Christmas in Prague, we attended midnight mass

The music superb, the church absolutely freezing , we left before the end we were were so, so, cold

On Christmas morning we realised the church was almost next to the hotel

Superb as we lay in bed and listened to the magnificent music

Other than the carp, and the fact we missed our family , it was a magical 4 days

A bit sweaty in the eateries with condensation as we we all came in out of the cold and discarded outer coats

But that's what memories are made of

Sandra


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