# Locking fresh water caps



## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Following on from recent forum discussions and bearing in mind Cabby's email to the CC re replenishment stops I thought I'd let you guys and gals see an email I sent to CAK Tanks the other day:

'Here's a chance to really make your name in a forum of 21,000 motorhome enthusiasts. For many months there have been ongoing threads on www.motorhomefacts.com about water tank locking caps that don't - lock that is. Various analogies have been used about these caps, all on the same sort of theme of 'about as much use as a chocolate teapot'.

It seems that all converters tend to use the same type of cap and the great majority of users suffer from the same problem. The cap makers seem to go to great lengths to avoid identification, as in general there are no letters or logo's on the caps or their matching outlets/inlets.

Various remedies have been postulated by Forum members who include experienced engineers of many varied disciplines, staff of motorhome converters large and small, Peter Smith the Chairman of Swift Group himself and his design and customer service staff, motorhome retailers from around the country and ordinary frustrated motorhome owners, some of whom have felt like taking a twelve bore to their caps. The remedies proposed have involved, inter alia, WD40, easing oil, grease, aerosol graphite, baking in oven, a blast in a microwave (dodgy with metallic components), clout with club hammer, prising apart and reassembly (if humanly possible) and a soak in Hendersons Yorkshire Relish. None of these appear to provide a consistent, empirical remedy which will result in the hearts of motorhomers returning to their normal happy, contented rhythm. If we knew the name of the makers we have even considered taking out a class action against them under trade description legislation as the 'locking' word is alleged to be a downright lie.

In short the locking cap is a totally inept piece of design that appears not to fulfil its primary function once fitted to a motorhome for more than five minutes.

Whilst I understand that the shortcomings of this product must provide your company with masses of repeat business (and a lot of returned warranty type claims) we wonder whether there is something that the combined minds of 20,000 plus motorhomers are missing. As one of the major suppliers of motorhome water handling products can you advise of how to get all these malfunctioning caps to work and do the job they're supposed to have been made for.'

I was surprised not to have received a response after a few days so I chased it up. I was told the the MD needs to answer the query and he is at the NEC for the duration of the show. He will respond after the show and I'll post the answer for all to see.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

This sounds like fun. who can we email next please.we are on a roll.

:roll: :roll: 

cabby


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

Why oh why does the cap have to lock?

The manufacturers only have to put a lock on the flap and the locking water cap is no more!!!!!


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

Wytonknaus said:


> Why oh why does the cap have to lock?
> 
> The manufacturers only have to put a lock on the flap and the locking water cap is no more!!!!!


It's alright for you smarty pants guys with euro coachbuilt jobbys (with flaps) but us poor PVC users sans flaps require a cap that cappeth properly and a lock that doth lock on a regular and dependable basis.

Thinks ..... I wonder if the Japs have this problem? :roll:


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

cabby said:


> This sounds like fun. who can we email next please.we are on a roll.
> 
> :roll: :roll:
> 
> cabby


I'm trying to think what other products have given us cause to rise up and curse the very name of the makers for supplying stuff that is neither use nor ornament?


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Wytonknaus said:
> 
> 
> > Why oh why does the cap have to lock?
> ...


I am one of the not so smarty pants! I had to replace the one on our Knaus within three months and now carry a spare!!!!!


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Any one tried the F iamma one.

Just a thought.

Peter


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

I think the locking idea is a good one for a few reasons .

1. the cap is harder to pinch..

2. Diesel filling is deterred by having a white locking cap with a different key (although not foolproof) eh Steve?  

3. harder for the baddies to add something noxious to your fresh tank! :wink:


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

How about water gauges when we've won this one? My fresh tank currently shows full when empty, and hits the stop hard when full. Today I was in a hurry to get out and discovered the waste tank was full when my freshly washed feet got soaked in the overflow from the waste tank filling the shower tray, while the gauge wasn't registering full!

My filler cap doesn't lock either!


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

what is the difference Peter, quality or an air vent.shouldn't ask but whats the price of one of them please.

cabby


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

johnandcharlie said:


> How about water gauges when we've won this one? My fresh tank currently shows full when empty, and hits the stop hard when full. Today I was in a hurry to get out and discovered the waste tank was full when my freshly washed feet got soaked in the overflow from the waste tank filling the shower tray, while the gauge wasn't registering full!
> 
> My filler cap doesn't lock either!


J&C,

Does your water gauge sender work okay in warmer weather? Reason I ask is that when we were in Norway a few weeks ago, the outside temp fell to -21c, indeed when filling the tank with the small triple pipe hose, it froze. When I did get the tank full of water the guage constantly read 0% fresh water. The water was so cold, it was painful to put your hand in the tank. Even after a day, the water was still too cold to read anything. Once back home, the sender now reads ok.

Back to the filler cap, not something I knew about until dumbo here lost the original Eura one. I bought a replacement from Marcle Leisure (superb service) and it locked for about 3 months. Now its is unlockable.

Trev.


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

johnandcharlie said:


> How about water gauges when we've won this one? My fresh tank currently shows full when empty, and hits the stop hard when full. Today I was in a hurry to get out and discovered the waste tank was full when my freshly washed feet got soaked in the overflow from the waste tank filling the shower tray, while the gauge wasn't registering full!
> 
> My filler cap doesn't lock either!


John, you've just mentioned something that's been gently nagging me since we got our van 18 months ago. Horizons don't fit any water level indicators and claim that they don't fit them because they've not found any that are dependable.
I wondered whether this was just a salesman's patter to cover them being cheapskates, but it sounds like there might be an element of truth in their excuse.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Interesting thread, my autotrail 17 years old, locking water cap still working as does the water level indicator in both fresh and waste tanks. 8) 

Perhaps I don't want to change it.....


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

pete4x4 said:


> Interesting thread, my autotrail 17 years old, locking water cap still working as does the water level indicator in both fresh and waste tanks. 8)
> 
> Perhaps I don't want to change it.....


You may have hit on something there Pete.
Do you think that those parts made 17 years ago were built more robustly, but in the manufacturers never ending quest for something lighter and cheaper they've forgotten about making them better and lumbered users with things that aren't fit for purpose?


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> pete4x4 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting thread, my autotrail 17 years old, locking water cap still working as does the water level indicator in both fresh and waste tanks. 8)
> ...


I had a van 17 years ago with the same design of water cap as now, it failed then as it fails now, the only difference is now I know its not my fault


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Water fillers*



Wytonknaus said:


> Why oh why does the cap have to lock?
> 
> The manufacturers only have to put a lock on the flap and the locking water cap is no more!!!!!


Agreed. Saying that, whilst my Corsa fuel filler is a non lockable cap behind a locking trap door, the motorome fuel point is a locking cap behind a non lockable flap.

The water filler issue is something that really needs sorting.

Is the GRP of a motorhome strong enough to make a small locking flap from though?

Russell


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"I had a van 17 years ago with the same design of water cap as now, it failed then as it fails now, the only difference is now I know its not my fault"

I think that sums up nicely my feelings, too 

I am, however, foregoing the opportunity to whinge again about mine, in case it hears me (pssst - it's working at the moment!)

Dave


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Water cap*

Dave - you are right - that's the solution

Don't talk about the filler cap as when it hears us it fails.

Mine has recently been replaced with one of a slightly different design - so far so good. Shhhhhhhh...

Russell


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## Steamdrivenandy (Jun 18, 2007)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Any one tried the F iamma one.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Peter


I've just had a look at the Fiamma one on your site Peter.

It looks a slightly different external design to the 'standard' one, but who knows if the infernal workings are more dependable?

They certainly should be as they're about 40% more to buy!


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## dbh1961 (Apr 13, 2007)

pete4x4 said:


> Interesting thread, my autotrail 17 years old, locking water cap still working as does the water level indicator in both fresh and waste tanks. 8)
> 
> Perhaps I don't want to change it.....


My 2006 Autotrail has a cap that locks sometimes, and a fresh water guage that works sometimes. The waste water guage is even worse....

The waste display shows how full the tank is, in percentage terms, on an LCD. However, it only ever shows the 2 extremeties, ie 0% or 100%, nothing in between.

I have an e-mail, from Autotrail, confirming that that is how it's supposed to work. - I have told them what I think!

What we need, is a warning that the tank is about to get full, not a confirmation of what the paddling pool in the shower tray has already told us.

If the best they can do is a Y/N indicator, they could at least position it for 80% not 100%, and wire it to a light, not a guage.

Or they could go back to what they fitted 17 years ago.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"What we need, is a warning that the tank is about to get full, not a confirmation of what the paddling pool in the shower tray has already told us."

But Gaslow built their company providing an instrument to tell you your shower tray was a paddling pool!

The "*Gas* is *low*" gauge told you your space heater, water heater, hob, oven and BBQ had all just stopped 

Dave


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I would have thought that if your fresh water tank is getting low, then the waste water obviously is getting full, why do you need a gauge to tell you that.   :twisted: :twisted: 

cabby


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

cabby said:


> I would have thought that if your fresh water tank is getting low, then the waste water obviously is getting full, why do you need a gauge to tell you that.   :twisted: :twisted:
> 
> cabby


Because my fresh tank is around 70 litres and the waste tank around 30! A lot of CC MH Service Points are on a slope, so I often can't completely fill the fresh tank or completely empty the waste tank, so don't even know where I'm starting from. With no warning on the waste tank you can check the gauge, do something that uses a fair bit of water (like a shower or washing up), and find the shower tray filling up. It always happens to me just as I'm going to bed! My water gauge was faulty when I got the van in May, fixed by West Country Motorhomes in August, worked fine for several months, had a few phases of being faulty then working, and currently shows full even when empty. I suspect it may be at least partly temperature related. As it's 9 years old I did wonder if it was an age thing, but it sounds like it's not.

It seems to me that the industry concentrates on appearance and flashy features, and can't get to grips with some of the basic engineering. Surely a water filler cap and the inside of a water tank aren't such harsh environments that humans haven't developed reliable technology to withstand it?


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Steamdrivenandy said:


> pete4x4 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting thread, my autotrail 17 years old, locking water cap still working as does the water level indicator in both fresh and waste tanks. 8)
> ...


I don't know if it's made any better as I hadn't given it any thought, it looks exactly the same as any locking petrol cap only white.
The electronics in the water level indicator is so simple it can't not work, I think we overcomplicate now. I just need to know I need to fill or empty, I'm not interested in knowing I may have to do it tomorrow :lol:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

cabby said:


> what is the difference Peter, quality or an air vent.shouldn't ask but whats the price of one of them please.
> 
> cabby


You asked !! £11-96p

Peter


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## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

pete4x4 said:


> The electronics in the water level indicator is so simple it can't not work, I think we overcomplicate now. I just need to know I need to fill or empty, I'm not interested in knowing I may have to do it tomorrow :lol:


I'm interested in that. I've lost count of the times I've run out of water half way through cleaning my teeth before going to bed. I'm fed up with having to drain a bit out of my waste tank at 1am in the cold and rain too.


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

johnandcharlie said:


> pete4x4 said:
> 
> 
> > The electronics in the water level indicator is so simple it can't not work, I think we overcomplicate now. I just need to know I need to fill or empty, I'm not interested in knowing I may have to do it tomorrow :lol:
> ...


Ok, my Autotrail tells me I need to empty the waste before it's full about 20 litres before in fact, 75 litre tank. Seems sensible to me.


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## CatherineandSteve (Dec 20, 2005)

Hi,

Our water filler cap was rubbish, so was the replacement, they broke in no time at all. We invested in a Fiamma (about £15 I think) and it has worked perfectly ever since.

We've gat a Homecar and the Fiamma cap fitted perfectly. 

Catherine


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