# Would you like Swift to make an A Class



## Velvettones

a topic discussed at the swift rally today - thought i'd throw it out and see what comes back

Mark

(peter from swift has already said he wants one :wink: )


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## asprn

Yes. A-classes are niccccccccce. Swift are gooooood. Swift A-classes would be interrrrrrrrrrresting.

Dougie.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Velvettones said:


> a topic discussed at the swift rally today - thought i'd throw it out and see what comes back
> 
> Mark
> 
> (peter from swift has already said he wants one :wink: )


When can I order some!

Peter


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## artona

Hi

They did, was it called the Belair based on the Kontiki. Really nice looking vehicle. Now did they mention whether it would have slide outs  

stew


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## Pusser

I think we all ought to design it, choose the engine bit and we can do that by polling for.... e.g.

Ford, FIat, VW or Jap
Rear Fixed, Rear side fixed, U shape
Rear bathroom, centre bathroom
Extras standard i.e. aircon
Type of boiler i.e. gas diesel


When all the votes are in we can see which would be the most popular configuration.

But how we do this I don't know so probably best to let Swift get on with it.


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## artona

Hi

Just seen your post on another thread Mark and Russell refering to the Belair as well :lol: :lol: 


stew


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## chapter

the swift bel-air see here there were 2 models i think they were a 2 and a 3 berth 
chapter


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## GerryD

I would like anybody to design an A-class that is no more than 7metres and still has plenty of lounging space without having to use the seats that i have been sitting in whilst driving. Oh and boss lady wants a proper door on each side.


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## Rapide561

*Bel air*

Hi

I would certainly have one! The Bel Air looks a nice van. I wonder why production stopped though. Only Peter and his team know the answer, and if it is not too commercially sensitive, I pose the question!

Russell


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## SwiftGroup

*Re: Bel air*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> I would certainly have one! The Bel Air looks a nice van. I wonder why production stopped though. Only Peter and his team know the answer, and if it is not too commercially sensitive, I pose the question!
> 
> Russell


No demand at the time so we concentrated on Coachbuilt but I think we should have perservered? We will only do one IF we can do a proper job and at the moment I want to concentrate on getting what we have right. As I said today we have some very nice drawings the equal or more of anything on the market.Why did the Autotrail not sell? Peter.


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## Rapide561

*Autotrail A class*

Hi

My guess is it was a price thing. Was it about £63,000? That said, it is not THAT much more expensive than a Kontiki 669/Bessacarr 769. It could be the psycology of starting with a 6 rather than a 5. I also - having been in a Frontier A class - found the interior to be abit depressing! Of course, the van was not the same length as a Swift tag axle either, so not as much van for the money.

Russell

Peter - In terms of numbers, what makes a successful model? 50 per year? 100 per year?

(If it is commercially sensitive, I fully understand).


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## artona

Hi

I remember the Bel air coming out. I read an article in one of the magazines about and thought "wow".
I was surprised to then read not long after that it had been dropped. A bit before that the delorean had faulted as well, a vehicle ahead of its time and I think The Belair was too.

At the time Hymers made A class and the Brits made Coach built and van conversions. 

Society had not got ready for a big looking van for just two people, the big Hymers usually had potential for five or six.

The next time the Bel air, for me showed itself was on the MHF field at last years Newark show. One of our members, called Bella had brought hers down from Scotland. In the flesh it was as beautiful as it appeared in the photographs


stew


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## SwiftGroup

*Re: Autotrail A class*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> My guess is it was a price thing. Was it about £63,000? That said, it is not THAT much more expensive than a Kontiki 669/Bessacarr 769. It could be the psycology of starting with a 6 rather than a 5. I also - having been in a Frontier A class - found the interior to be abit depressing! Of course, the van was not the same length as a Swift tag axle either, so not as much van for the money.
> 
> Russell
> 
> Peter - In terms of numbers, what makes a successful model? 50 per year? 100 per year?
> 
> (If it is commercially sensitive, I fully understand).


100


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## cabby

did I not read that the Bel-Air had problems with the windscreen leaking through flexing too much, replacements of windscreens also were prominent.

It will be very difficult to design an A class to suit enough people without copying say Hymer. so then which would one choose.


cabby


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## DABurleigh

Easy - provide long sofas 

Dave


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## stewartwebr

Hello,

Their were more than two Bel Air's Peter could tell us all the detail. But around 2001 Swift moved the range to two models the 730 and 760. Both had front lounges with the inclusion of the driving seats and on the 730 an L shaped seat that could convert to a pullman set up. The door was on the opposite side to the seating. On the bigger van they had a seat across from the L shape seating. Both had a very nice rear shower room using what must have been the first circular shower cubicle.

I owned a 730 for 4 years and never had any issues. It was a really good van that was admired on every site i visited. It really pulled a crowd.

Some of the early models around 1998 - 2000 were called Trans continental with a rear lounge. They did suffer from an issue where the front windscreens had fitting issues and some did fall out...so I was told by a few dealers. I did meet a couple who had one and they were on the 4th Screen and with a really bad fit.

On moving over to a CB I did notice it's a much better ride a lot quiter and a better smoother ride... but that could be the X250.

I can see why Peter would want to move back into the A Class market, but every UK Manufacturer so far has failed.......you ready for an other go Peter???

Stewart


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## Velvettones

just to clarify what i stated earlier - we posed the question to swift not the other way around, swift currently have no plans to remake an A Class but general concensus in the room was that there should be one - whilst Peter did agree that he wanted to see them they are busy concentrating on their current range (given that they produce over 300 different types of M/H, caravan and holiday home i can understand why)

don't expect any suprises in their range along that line just yet :wink: 

just thought i'd see what the rest of the forum thought to the idea

Mark


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## Rapide561

*Swift A class*

Right then, let's get this A class on the road with a design team.

Pusser - toilet and also spare toilet area. 
Dave B - electrics and sofa seating
Me - sleep area and counting the number of 3 pin sockets. also responsible for ensuring that clubcards can be used by way of payment!
Grizzly - additional accessories - lidded buckets, aircon and so on 
CarolGavin - head of windscreens and scuttles
Damondunc - head of laundry and washing machines
Artona - make sure the photo's are Ok for the brochure
Gerry - door monitor - ensure there are enough of
JohnsCross - sole selling rights!

Jenny, the dog I look after will also attend a design meeting to ensure that the rear bed - and also the drop down bed are accessible by dogs at all time.

Swift can have the easy part of building the thing!

Russell


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## artona

Hi Russell

What about an after sales care team :lol: :lol: 

stew


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## Pusser

I think Swift should have a close look at the cousin of mine the Burstner Marano but the A class version. If I am not right here then I mean the Deafless equivalent. A just over 6m A class is in my view an interesting thing. You do not want to compete in the big one market as there is loads out there. I would like an A class that is the same as my low profile with just a few picky changes.


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## peedee

Velvettones said:


> just to clarify what i stated earlier - we posed the question to swift not the other way around, swift currently have no plans to remake an A Class but general concensus in the room was that there should be one - whilst Peter did agree that he wanted to see them they are busy concentrating on their current range (given that they produce over 300 different types of M/H, caravan and holiday home i can understand why)
> 
> don't expect any suprises in their range along that line just yet :wink:
> 
> just thought i'd see what the rest of the forum thought to the idea
> 
> Mark


Well they could be really innovative and come up with a design which has an option for the wheelchair disabled and I don't just mean a wide door. They are more likely to be able to achieve this in an A-Class. Here is one who would then be interested.

There are just too many pokey vans on the market in the under 7 metre range so something about 7 to 8 metre long with level flooring and aisles 27/30 inches wide would be great.

peedee


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## soundman

After our first van (Kontiki) back in 94 we were ready to move on to an A class in 1999. We always liked the look and quality of the Hymers but along came the Bel-Air at £53k. Super looking van with a layout that suited the two of us and subsequently placed an order for one.
After one year of continual problems mainly due to poor build quality, windsreen falling out, bodywork creaking and cracking etc. we eventually settled down with the van, but still apprehensive of its quality. During that time we met two couples who have become our friends who both had Bel-Air's at the same and usually at the shows we discussed all our problems with our vans over a light hearted chat.
Four years later we decided to replace it for our original dream of a Hymer.
Next problem, no dealer would even negotiate our Bel-Air, now with only 7000 miles and looking perfect. Eventually after taking a low offer we joined the Hymer camp and now on our second Hymer cannot fault their vans on build quality.
We thought at the time the price difference between the Swift and Hymer was not acceptable but as they say "you only get what you pay for"

Soundman


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## Velvettones

"The Swift A Class - The Swifty. Th first motorhome designed on a forum for the world, buy it now from all good JohnsCross Agents or go online at www.outdoorbits.com for a 10% discount"

i can see it now

so who's going to put a rally up for designing this thing then?


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## Velvettones

point taken soundman - the pic of your belair looks stunning though


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## 94055

*Re: Bel air*



SwiftGroup said:


> As I said today we have some very nice drawings the equal or more of anything on the market.Why did the Autotrail not sell? Peter.


Peter

When are we going to see them?

Steve


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## kijana

I would love to see a motorhome designed for two people (i.e. no compromises to squeeze in extra berths), based on a Japanese chassis and engine, max length 6.5m, luton overcab.

With a slideout. This would make all the difference to its appeal.

I realise that the smaller a van the greater the percentage increase in weight a slideout forms. But in reality, the smaller the van, the more need there is for a slideout. And the slideout mechanism could be hand cranked to keep weight & cost down.

I would also want to see a good payload, say 500kg net of pax & fluids. Once again, this is obviously going to take it way over the 3500kg rating, but could I'm sure be easily accomplished in a sub 7500kg vehicle. And I'm guessing that the bulk of the potential customers would be of an age to have a licence allowing them to drive 7.5 tonne vehicles.

And I'd want twin wheels, not a tag axle, to save on EU peage charges.

And belly lockers, and twin beds, and none of the expensive paraphenalia like aircon and enormous generators and blown air heating fitted as standard on Yank tanks. (Though maybe offered as extras)

But I don't suppose I'll see one in my lifetime. . .

Bruce


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## SwiftGroup

*Re: Bel air*



SandJ said:


> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said today we have some very nice drawings the equal or more of anything on the market.Why did the Autotrail not sell? Peter.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> When are we going to see them?
> 
> Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Steve,I will get on it tomorrow.Peter.
Click to expand...


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## richardjames

*Swift 'A' Class*

Hi :lol: 
I would be very interested as long as it did not have a Fiat Chassis/Engine
and it had rear wheel drive. 6.5 Metres would be ideal!!
Regards
Richard


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## bognormike

I would love to see it, but the continental groups have got a heck of a start - look how many vans Hymer / Dethleffs/ Burstner / Pilote (and all the variations) turn out? It's a big load of tooling up for a relatively small run. If I was MD of Swift, I'd concentrate on getting the current stuff out the door in good order, and get some long term plans in place (possibly using the Autocruise facility) :wink: 

And are the new Mondials the same as Autocruise's new van conversions?


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## 105874

*Swift A Class*

Make it a reasonable priced family A class with good lounge, bunk beds, fully winterised and with a healthy/realistic payload and I'm in - only trouble is I'm looking for such a van right now.

My last 4 vans (including my current one) have been Swifts so would happily have another if the right van existed. You can't even get a Swift overcab with bunkbeds at the moment - shame.


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## SwiftGroup

*Re: Bel air*



SwiftGroup said:


> SandJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwiftGroup said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve,I will get on it tomorrow.Peter.
> 
> 
> 
> I better get in early tomorrow then Peter,
> Andy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Bella

*Swift A Class*

I have already posted a reply about this topic on the Swift factory visit 2 but thought I'd just post my "Bella" again.
Isn't she beautiful!! 
See you in March Peter, Andy and Kath with your design books!!

Pam


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## quickgetaway

The Bel-Air was certainly a good looker - ahead of its time. I am currently looking out of my window at one two pitches diagonally down from me.

Do the UK manufaturers take it in turns to build A-Classes?

Forgetting the small specialist ones(Crystal and another who I have forgotten the name of) they have all had a turn - Elldis, Autosleeper, Swift and Autotrail. UK built ones look to be aimed at the luxury end of the market. Maybe they take the view that it costs more to build than a coachbuilt - there ore it must be marketed at a higher level. I still can not understand how you can now get cheap European A-Classes (<40k) for less than an equivalent UK made coachbuilt. In fact I can not understad why motorhomes are so expensive when compared to caravans. A top of the range caravan is easily under £20k yet a similar speced motor home would be £55k - where does that £35k go?? But that would be another topic.

My ideal van would be fully winterised, alde central heating and electric underfloor heating - two long benches, both driver and passenger doors, oh, and of course it must be custard yellow with black decals!


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## Velvettones

we've often said that - how much does the cab cost?

i can appreciate that setting up to produce A Classes wouldn't be easy, but to have a UK A Class would be lovely, and the company that gets there would have an almost captive audience (if you ignore all the european ones  )

what did swift do with all the tools etc used for the bel air?

Mark


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## 108125

I have a Swift motorhome at present. If Swift were making an A class right now I wouldn't be looking, as I am, to buying an A class from another maker
Come on Swift, an A class is long overdue, surely?

Terry


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## Mikemoss

If there was a third option 'not yet' in the voting categories I'd have gone for that, simply because I wouldn't like to see Swift 'do a grande frontier' by devoting all that time, money, energy and resources to developing an A class only for it to die the death within a short space of time.

I guess there's a selfish streak in me too, because if they did build one I certainly wouldn't be able to afford it!

However....given the profusion of new models coming out of Cottingham it might only be a matter of time before Belair 2 joins their ranks anyway. Interesting thought, anyway!


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## Steamdrivenandy

quickgetaway said:


> The Bel-Air was certainly a good looker - ahead of its time. I am currently looking out of my window at one two pitches diagonally down from me.
> 
> Do the UK manufaturers take it in turns to build A-Classes?
> 
> Forgetting the small specialist ones(Crystal and another who I have forgotten the name of) they have all had a turn - Elldis, Autosleeper, Swift and Autotrail. UK built ones look to be aimed at the luxury end of the market. Maybe they take the view that it costs more to build than a coachbuilt - there ore it must be marketed at a higher level. I still can not understand how you can now get cheap European A-Classes (<40k) for less than an equivalent UK made coachbuilt. In fact I can not understad why motorhomes are so expensive when compared to caravans. A top of the range caravan is easily under £20k yet a similar speced motor home would be £55k - where does that £35k go?? But that would be another topic.
> 
> My ideal van would be fully winterised, alde central heating and electric underfloor heating - two long benches, both driver and passenger doors, oh, and of course it must be custard yellow with black decals!


You've got a good point there re van pricing.

The £20K caravan will have all the profit margins built in. The retail price of a panel van with bells and whistles is circa £20K (if Merc £25K). Chassis cabs have got to be considerably cheaper than that. Quantity discounts to major converters must bring the price down as well. So in my estimation (and I could be v wrong her) an average Fiat base vehicle would cost £15K retail.

So that's £35K for a chassis cab to tow a good quality caravan and £20K to take the wheels off the caravan and slot it onto the back.

It does seem an awful lot for that part of the operation.

Looking at the cheapest Swift motorhome which is a gnats todger under £30K the base van would be circa (say) £13K retail and the habitation the equivalent of a circa £10/11K caravan. So say £24K retail for the outfit. How come there's an additional cost of £5/6K in this case to have the caravan chassis removed and built on a van chassis?

Are motorhome sales subsidising caravan prices?

I'm not saying I could make them cheaper but I'd be interested to know how the costs stack up in round terms.


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## Rapide561

*A class*

Hi

See the link below for a sneaky look at what a Bel Air two might look like.

Russell

Swift A class drawing


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## rickwiggans

Like Terry, I'm on the edge of looking for an A-class, and I'd love it to be a Swift (to go with my beautiful new watch!!). Next time, maybe?

Rick


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## SwiftGroup

Steamdrivenandy said:


> quickgetaway said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Bel-Air was certainly a good looker - ahead of its time. I am currently looking out of my window at one two pitches diagonally down from me.
> 
> Do the UK manufaturers take it in turns to build A-Classes?
> 
> Forgetting the small specialist ones(Crystal and another who I have forgotten the name of) they have all had a turn - Elldis, Autosleeper, Swift and Autotrail. UK built ones look to be aimed at the luxury end of the market. Maybe they take the view that it costs more to build than a coachbuilt - there ore it must be marketed at a higher level. I still can not understand how you can now get cheap European A-Classes (<40k) for less than an equivalent UK made coachbuilt. In fact I can not understad why motorhomes are so expensive when compared to caravans. A top of the range caravan is easily under £20k yet a similar speced motor home would be £55k - where does that £35k go?? But that would be another topic.
> 
> My ideal van would be fully winterised, alde central heating and electric underfloor heating - two long benches, both driver and passenger doors, oh, and of course it must be custard yellow with black decals!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got a good point there re van pricing.
> 
> The £20K caravan will have all the profit margins built in. The retail price of a panel van with bells and whistles is circa £20K (if Merc £25K). Chassis cabs have got to be considerably cheaper than that. Quantity discounts to major converters must bring the price down as well. So in my estimation (and I could be v wrong her) an average Fiat base vehicle would cost £15K retail.
> 
> So that's £35K for a chassis cab to tow a good quality caravan and £20K to take the wheels off the caravan and slot it onto the back.
> 
> It does seem an awful lot for that part of the operation.
> 
> Looking at the cheapest Swift motorhome which is a gnats todger under £30K the base van would be circa (say) £13K retail and the habitation the equivalent of a circa £10/11K caravan. So say £24K retail for the outfit. How come there's an additional cost of £5/6K in this case to have the caravan chassis removed and built on a van chassis?
> 
> Are motorhome sales subsidising caravan prices?
> 
> I'm not saying I could make them cheaper but I'd be interested to know how the costs stack up in round terms.
Click to expand...

Its all to do with daily production rates.Peter.


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## damondunc

It would have to have fullwall slideouts to compete in todays market , to house the built in laundry ,( we will get on to that task right away Russell )
Forget any thoughts of a garage and supply a fully colour coded trailer as standard therefore allowing the rear bed to be of a height that people can access easily ,And Jenny dogs :wink: 
We are happy to bring our RV over to the factory so an extensive study can be made of the slideout mechanism for a nominal fee ( chocolate cake will do )

Chris


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## Velvettones

would be quite interested in a small van (sub 23 Feet whatever that is in M), with slides on, it would really increase the living areas and also fit nicely onto my drive - like to look at the RV's but where would i park it?

Mark


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## Steamdrivenandy

Not sure if this got a mention earlier in this thread but these people have a Swift Bel Air for sale http://www.freewheelleisure.co.uk/html/used_19.html
Andy


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## mikeandju

Hey, we've got one.

A Swift Bel Air 730 bought in 2004 from Alan Kerr. Register early 2003 it had been a demonstrator with 600 miles on the clock and at £35,000, I thought a bargain.

We're still very pleased with it. Lovely living space for 2 in 21 ft. There are a few photos of it in the Menmbers Motorhomes section of Photos.

We sold our house and lived in it for 8 months before relocating to a new UK address. And the wife and I were still speaking to each other.

Off again to France and Spain late May. Can't wait.


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## bigfoot

I am at present looking to replace my 1993 Hymer 544 with a new van.
I would like it to have a rear u lounge,but they seem to be like hen's teeth in new vehicles. Additional spec would have to be 4 berth with the right number of belted seats,aircon,auto box,cruise control and a decnt engine witha bit of oomph.
I want it NOW!! If Swift do one it could be my choice of replacement next time.
BTW an A class's main feature is the integration of front seats into the living area,the Bel airs didin't have this feature although on model did have a rear U lounge.


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## teemyob

*Swift*

Yes,

Providing it is built on a Mercedes Chassis, preferably a Mercedes-Alko one.

You could make it your Flagship!

Trev.


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## geraldandannie

bigfoot said:


> BTW an A class's main feature is the integration of front seats into the living area,the Bel airs didin't have this feature although on model did have a rear U lounge.


Hi

Not strictly true - it's more the integration of the cab into the habitation bodywork, and I think nearly all of them use this to fit a drop-down bed above the cab seats, which gives you a semi-fixed double. Most 'Eurohomes' now integrate the cab seats into the front lounge, whilst retaining the chassis cab. In ours, there is a small step up (about 2") from the lounge into the cab, but no other inconvenience.

Am I the only person who _really_ doesn't like A-class designs, and would never buy one? 

Gerald


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## bigfoot

[
Am I the only person who _really_ doesn't like A-class designs, and would never buy one? 

Gerald[/quote]
Probably


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## Steamdrivenandy

geraldandannie said:


> bigfoot said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW an A class's main feature is the integration of front seats into the living area,the Bel airs didin't have this feature although on model did have a rear U lounge.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Not strictly true - it's more the integration of the cab into the habitation bodywork, and I think nearly all of them use this to fit a drop-down bed above the cab seats, which gives you a semi-fixed double. Most 'Eurohomes' now integrate the cab seats into the front lounge, whilst retaining the chassis cab. In ours, there is a small step up (about 2") from the lounge into the cab, but no other inconvenience.
> 
> Am I the only person who _really_ doesn't like A-class designs, and would never buy one?
> 
> Gerald
Click to expand...

No you're not Gerald.

I know I'll get blasted but it seems to me that whatever the A Class converters come up with as an alternative 'look' for the cab exterior is always worse than the chassis manufacturers original. Some of them are downright ugly, some are dowdy, many look amateurish, but there again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Andy


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## RichardnGill

Just to even it up a bit we currently have a C Class but would love an A class Yes some A Class can look a bit cheep at the front end but many do look really nice. 

If I have the cash I would have a Hymer B 675 SL on a Merc with the V6. But reality is probally a 2 year old A Class or another C Class if we change this year.


And yes Swift should do another A class as I would love an A Class Kon Tiki equivalent.

Richard...


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## geraldandannie

Maybe A-classes are the Marmite of the motorhome world? :wink:

Gerald


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## Steamdrivenandy

geraldandannie said:


> Maybe A-classes are the Marmite of the motorhome world? :wink:
> 
> Gerald


certainly not the hot chocolate of the motorhome world :wink:

Andy


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## ned

*Swift*

Hi
It might be a good idea if they tried making a normal motorhome that had all the working parts working when you purchased it in the first place matey. Never mind about building an A class for gods sake. The company should just stick to caravans and they are not that good.

Disenchanted ned


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