# Scooter Advice Needed



## Helgamobil (Jul 18, 2010)

Good morning!
We are thinking of getting a scooter and would like to tap into the collective wisdom of MHF. 50cc /125cc , manufacturer, comfort (for two of us not in the first flush of youth), weight, portability, east of use - just about anything you guys can tell us - please.


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi there

Depends on various things, have either of you passed motorcycle test?
IF not then you will be restricted to 50cc if you 'legally' want to take a pillion. This is on your car licence.
You will need a 50cc destricted, otherwise you'll be lucky to do 22mph!

You can't take a pillion on a CBT certificate, you must take the practical test, module 1 and module 2.

IF you can ride larger, I can recommend the Honda PCX 125cc, it's around 120Kg. As they haven't been out long, second hand around £1800-2K, new £2400.

We had an Aprilia Mojito 50cc which was good fun, but very wide handlebars, which can make it difficult to put in your garage/rack etc.

Others will be along with more suggestions.

PS we will be taking our PCX to South of France soon, will do a write up when we get back.

 

Good luck

w


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Can second Wilse's comments here - we have a PCX, done nigh-on 800 miles so far commuting to and from work each day (30 miles each way).............very comfortable and economical - ave 117 mpg so far.....

Wilse - lucky beggar :lol: :lol: Look forward to your write up when you get back.................have a safe and wonderful trip!!!
Carl


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

Honda PCX here too. Had mine a year, done about 4,000 miles. Super little scoot.

Pulls well even two up. Handles very well. Comfortable, good pillion footrests. Top speed 65mph comfortable cruising around the 55mph mark. Good brakes. Will be reliable because it's a Honda!

JohnW


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Carl 117 mpg .

I misread that at first I thought it was 117mph :lol: :lol: 

Saving you a few bob then already.

Ride safe 

Dave p


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Carl 117 mpg .
> 
> I misread that at first I thought it was 117mph :lol: :lol:
> 
> ...


117mph :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wish!!!! That will have to wait until I get my 1100XX Blackbird....... just as soon as I can persuade Flo :roll: :roll: :roll:

And yep - the PCX certainly saves a bob or two!!!
C


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## ned (Dec 12, 2006)

*scooter*

Hi,

If you want to come down a bit in price but still retain most of the performance of the PCX, try googleing or ebaying a honda dylan 125. This is the forerunner of the PCX you can get a good dylan 2005-06 for about £750 - £900 depending on mileage and condition.

Cheers............. Ned


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

I cannot disagree with any of the aforesaid. If you want to spend around £2K Honda are the dogs bananas ( BMW don't do tiddlers).

But we have for the last five years used an approximate Chinese copy of the "Innova" 110cc. (Large wheel step through Cub C90 successor). 
It has never let us down starts first press or kick, tootles along at 50mph two up (22 stone), approx 100mpg, 105kg, £600 cash.
Fits in the back of the van.
Most of the spares are available on the internet if required (Honda Cub engine).
Obviously rapid depreciation but at £100 pa you could just scrap it in the event of a catastrophic failure. ( Chuck it over the hedge 

Steve


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Check the ability of your van to carry a scooter. My efforts have been snookered through weight issues unless I was prepared to have an Easylifter/Ezetow trailer which I don't want.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

There was a thread on here a few weeks back about the new Honda 110 cc scooter which was just 103 kg. I think you could arrange a test ride which I will be doing whenwe get back off this trip.

Would love a pcx but it's just a tad too heavy for our rack. Currently use a 100cc Peugeot speedfight at 95kg but they don't make em anymore.


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## biggles777 (Jan 18, 2006)

I'd go for the chinese option , i'm on my second one not because the first one broke but because some low life nicked it . For two people you need a 125 i got a retro looking one just short of £1000 and i really could not bring myself to lay out £2500 for a honda to live in the back of my motorhome . Not sure what the licence issues are because i got my motorbike one 40 years ago . SWMBO thought she'd have a go at riding it but fell off doing her compulsory basic training and promptly gave up . 
Chinese one is virtually all plastic which does make it light ( 103 kg ) so i think ideal .


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## splitwagon (Oct 20, 2009)

We've been researching just this topic for about a year. Our situation is:

- I have a motorbike licence from 20-odd years ago
- Our scooter payload is going to be 180Kg, so we wanted a larger machine with reasonable 4-stroke power for climbing the Pyrenees
- I wanna be first away from the lights when 1-up riding to the office
- Our motorhome has a large payload allowance, and a towbar built strong enough to tow a Sherman tank
- Low price is not our first priority, nor is high mpgs

What we decided:

Scooter - Honda SH300i

- 22kW engine, plenty of power two-up, more than enough one-up
- Returns about 65 mpg
- Weighs 173Kg, so best carried on something with its own wheels
- Very comfortable (could ride all day 2 up - suitable for touring)
- Relatively narrow for a 'maxi-scooter', so easy to 'filter' in traffic but probably too big for a 'normal' MH garage
- Not really a 'ladies' machine (1-up)
- Available with 0% finance
- No space for a helmet, so it comes with a top box at no extra cost

Carrier - Easy Lifter Hyra Trail

- Impressively engineered piece of kit
- At the upper end of the 'value for money' scale
- Sourced from a small company - you need to meet them half way and be technically sensible too
- Needs quite a bit of heavyweight lifting to operate, not really a 'ladies' device (1-up)

I'll let you know if we make it to the Pyrenees!

I am easily the fastest commuter across our local city, I have not had so much fun, probably ever.

Anyone need a pint of milk - I'll get it!

Cheers

Split
~~~~


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## dilly (Jan 19, 2007)

This new Honda looks a bargain to me 
http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/offers/vision110/


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Dilly. I think that could be the one I was on about earlier. Looks good but I just hope it has the grunt. Our Peugeot is only 100cc but 2 stroke and quite quick for a scooter. Had It two up in the pyrenees up to 7500ft before we ran out of road as it turned into a ski slope. Any bike we replace it with needs to do the same.


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## dhutchy (Feb 7, 2010)

I used to have a Lambretta back in the day i see they have a new model out, as anybody heard much about them?


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## Roger7webster (Oct 10, 2006)

I have a Peugoet vivacity 125, new last year, just fits into my mh garage & weighs 116kg 
Pulls well two up and has increased our choice of campsites. 
One of our better buys!!


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## EEVpilot (Aug 15, 2010)

Have you looked at these - definitely the cheap end of the market and you'll have to register with DVLA....anyone ever bought one??

http://www.scooter.co.uk/

John


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

splitwagon said:


> We've been researching just this topic for about a year. Our situation is:
> 
> - Our scooter payload is going to be 180Kg, so we wanted a larger
> Cheers
> ...


You mention your payload is 180Kg, is this actual payload or the loading left on the rear axel?? if it's payload, please watch you don't overload the rear axel.

Changing the subject I have put a post on here, somewhere with links to the Honda Vision, it's only just been released and seems a bargain.

w


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

Please don't forget "Moments about the rear axle" if you have 180kg to spare that does not mean you can put 180kg on the back of the van.

Steve


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## soundman (May 1, 2005)

Mod's R' Us
Vespa GTS250 on a Hope Rack N' Roll
Fast and comfortable

Soundman


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

soundman said:


> Mod's R' Us
> Vespa GTS250 on a Hope Rack N' Roll
> Fast and comfortable
> 
> Soundman


What's a Hope Rack and Roll?


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

soundman said:


> Mod's R' Us
> Vespa GTS250 on a Hope Rack N' Roll
> Fast and comfortable
> 
> Soundman


Really nice wheels Soundman.

I was at the Isle of Wight scooter rally a couple of weekends ago.

Really good mix of new and old scoots. It's a great place if you like your Italian scoots.

w

PS aren't Rac n Roll limited to 150Kg?? or were there different models?

What's the weight of your scoot?


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## biggles777 (Jan 18, 2006)

The Tommy scooter on the link is the one i was referring to , i got it in cream and Katie Price wasnt included . I got it from local dealer in Nottingham which saved all the hassle of putting it together and DVLA registration etc , and for not much more , Had it a year and its worked perfectly , it will do 50 mph 2 up and a little bit more solo , and its light .


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## Helgamobil (Jul 18, 2010)

I heard, not sure where, that BBC "Watchdog" are investigating Direct Bikes (http://www.scooter.co.uk/) Perhaps they are too good to be true?

Is that where you guys have been sourcing the "chinese" scooters?


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## Helgamobil (Jul 18, 2010)

Have realised we need a towbar fitted for the "Easy-Lifter" thingummy - so a new thread to seek advice!


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

biggles777 said:


> The Tommy scooter on the link is the one i was referring to , i got it in cream and Katie Price wasnt included . I got it from local dealer in Nottingham which saved all the hassle of putting it together and DVLA registration etc , and for not much more , Had it a year and its worked perfectly , it will do 50 mph 2 up and a little bit more solo , and its light .


I presume this may be the scoot you are referring to?

Tommy scoot

It looks very similar to the Mojito I've just sold.
My only thoughts [for prospective buyers] measure the handbar width to make sure it will fit if going in a garage!

It's amazing for the cash... it did make me laugh on the bullet points... SCOOTER ASSEMBLED - SIMPLY ATTACH WING MIRRORS, BATTERY AND FREE ACCESSORIES

lol


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## biggles777 (Jan 18, 2006)

Thats why i got it via a dealer . when i saw the crate he got it in , apart from the backrest , carrier , battery , the wheels needed fitting . If anyone wants the size of it i can get out the tape measure when i get home this evening .


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## soundman (May 1, 2005)

wilse said:


> soundman said:
> 
> 
> > Mod's R' Us
> ...


Thanks for the compliment Wilse
We are reluctant to change the Vespa but the new PCX does look tempting.
The brochure states 147kg but I think that may be dry weight.
The Rack N' Roll is plated at 150kg but I have had a bit of strengthening work done to the atachement.
Apart from a short break where I fitted a different rack which was supposidly easier to load (no names mentioned) I have used this rack now for 16 years on 5 different van and it still looks as good as it did when purchased. I inspect the rack closeley everytime I use it for any stress related wear.
It's just so easy to load the scooter.
Soundman


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## tomo (May 1, 2005)

Hi. I too am thinking of adding a scoot to my mh. But ball weight is stated as 100kg. As a ball carrier does not put the weight over the ball I think I am stuck to 50cc, which is not really enough, those french passes are steep. Maybe I have to go with short trailer.


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## tomo (May 1, 2005)

Hi. I too am thinking of adding a scoot to my mh. But ball weight is stated as 100kg. As a ball carrier does not put the weight over the ball I think I am stuck to 50cc, which is not really enough, those french passes are steep. Maybe I have to go with short trailer.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Put it on a rack that bolts to the chassis.

tony


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## tomo (May 1, 2005)

Anyone know why my ball might be limited to 100k. Is it because I have a Eldis 180 which hangs out over the back axle quite a bit.


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Now I'm getting old & lazy, I'd like just a bog standard pedal assisted moped like they used to have when I were a lad :wink:

We was in Holland a couple of weeks ago where its cycling heaven & once or twice I spotted [what looked like] an ordinary pedal bike with a small petrol engine & the chap riding it was whizzing along too fast for me to catch his attention to find out what it was or where to buy one . . we asked in a couple of the bike shops but no one seemed to know.

I don't want to go down the route of electric battery assist bikes or anything as big as the old Honda 90 Cub . . anyone got any suggestions ?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Vic, they use those in the keirin cycle races at the velodromes. 

tony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derny


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## Markt500 (Mar 23, 2010)

I've just brought this Piaggio Liberty 125. Great little scooter and will easily take 2 peeps. Think its about 105kg too


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## pneumatician (May 1, 2005)

I think 100kg load on the towball is quite high. 
As I recall our Sprinter is limited to about 80Kg as are I believe are most cars.


Steve


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

If you are limited to 100kgs at the towbar you also have to take into account the weight of the rack which is around 30kgs. You therefore need a scooter weighing less than 70kgs and I doubt whether such a light scooter is available.

However, there do seem to be many motorhomers carrying scooters on racks but my guess is that they are over loading their vehicles. In the event of an accident these people will almost certainly experience insurance difficulties not to mention issues with the law if the accident was serious.


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## chrisgog (May 17, 2005)

Adding myself to the thread as we would like a scooter but would like it to go in our garage. The Honda seems nice and light.
chris


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

We have a Peugeot Vivacity 50cc not found anywhere it wont go up with both of us on it, ours is de-restricted and will do 45+ on the flat no problem cant remember the KG's but its sub 100kg's, if you want more power a 70cc upgrade is available from scoot tuning companys
Chris


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## meangreen (May 25, 2009)

recently purchased a peugeot speedflight 1oocc light quick with 2 person, 75mpg,£75 insurance £15 tax, cost me £6oo to buy.
105kg we put it on our bessacarr 760 
hope this helps


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Snap! But I'm sure our speedfight is 95kg?


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

meangreen said:


> recently purchased a peugeot speedflight 1oocc light quick with 2 person, 75mpg,£75 insurance £15 tax, cost me £6oo to buy.
> 105kg we put it on our bessacarr 760
> hope this helps


I trust you have the optional 4 tonne version because if you have a standard Bessacar 760 the payload is only 340 kgs meaning that with a scooter onboard the vehicle will probably be overloaded.

However, that aside Peugeot Speedflight scooters are excellent. This year Honda have introduced a new 110cc scooter (the Vision) coming in at 102kgs with a good spec. Both of these scooters are not much heavier than many 50cc scooters but the differences in performance will be significant.

But the most important issue is to ensure that noseweight and axle weights do not exceed the manufacturers specification. The weight of the towbar and rack needs to be added to the scooter weight to assess whether the vehicle is able to lawfully support a scooter. Otherwise there could be serious implications in the event of an accident or insurance claim.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

vicdicdoc said:


> Now I'm getting old & lazy, I'd like just a bog standard pedal assisted moped like they used to have when I were a lad :wink:
> 
> We was in Holland a couple of weeks ago where its cycling heaven & once or twice I spotted [what looked like] an ordinary pedal bike with a small petrol engine & the chap riding it was whizzing along too fast for me to catch his attention to find out what it was or where to buy one . . we asked in a couple of the bike shops but no one seemed to know.
> 
> I don't want to go down the route of electric battery assist bikes or anything as big as the old Honda 90 Cub . . anyone got any suggestions ?


Look here vic Ebay has honda P50s under classic mopeds


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Here is a review of the Honda Vision posted yesterday:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorbikes/8848442/Honda-Vision-review.html

But I remain a Vespa man myself. Great fun to have on the back of the van.

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I like the sound of the vision but I wonder if it has enough grunt. 50mph top speed suggests it will be under powered. Whilst I rarely take our speedfight over 50 I know it will pull us up hills and indeed mountains such as the Pyrenees or alps.

Anyone tried the vision yet? I'm sure I read you could arange a test ride


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Afternoon folks,


I have got a Sym fiddle 125 cc scooter which weighs about 110kg, this is carried on an armitage towbar mounted rack. The towbar is the higher capcity westfalia rated at150 kg in addition to this I have altered the top hinges on the van (adria twin) to accomodate two hooks, 2 150 kg ratchet straps then go down to support and stabilse the loaded rack. I am confident that the rack could carry another 50 kg , but the sym fiddle had 600 miles on and only cost £800 off Ebay and less than ayear old and I love it.
In the summer we did 2000 miles with it on the van with no problems.
Remember this is a 4metre wheelbase van with short overhang so a back axle overload is minimised.



norm


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

goldi said:


> Afternoon folks,
> 
> I have got a Sym fiddle 125 cc scooter which weighs about 110kg, this is carried on an armitage towbar mounted rack. The towbar is the higher capcity westfalia rated at150 kg in addition to this I have altered the top hinges on the van (adria twin) to accomodate two hooks, 2 150 kg ratchet straps then go down to support and stabilse the loaded rack. I am confident that the rack could carry another 50 kg , but the sym fiddle had 600 miles on and only cost £800 off Ebay and less than ayear old and I love it.
> In the summer we did 2000 miles with it on the van with no problems.
> ...


Its not only the capacity of the towball rack that is important. If you look in your vehicle handbook you will see the maximum axle weights and more importantly maximum noseload for a Fiat which is around 85-100kgs. Your towbar, rack and scooter weigh in at around 150kgs so you will be exceeding the noseload by a huge margin. There are insurance and other implications to consider when running a vehicle in an overweight state.

Below is an extract from e mail advice received from Witter:

_"It is the vehicle that is the limiting factor with regard to nose load.

Our records and the towbar type approval label indicate that the guideline maximum nose load for the 2010 Fiat Ducato Van is 80kg, the actual nose load for your vehicle will be printed in your vehicle's handbook"._

[align=justify][/align:9a80d40906]


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello Gelathaie, 


The westfalia tow bar is specifically designed to to 150 kg by additional bracing and mountings by the german authorities, indeed with additional engineering this could easily go to 200kgs. or to the point of back axle overload which ever comes first
As a former hgv operator I have had safety drummed into me so that I always take a belt and braces attitude to security of load.
I would take the view that it is the insurance co or others to prove tha normt the scooter was dangerously mounted.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

goldi said:


> Hello Gelathaie,
> 
> The westfalia tow bar is specifically designed to to 150 kg by additional bracing and mountings by the german authorities, indeed with additional engineering this could easily go to 200kgs. or to the point of back axle overload which ever comes first
> As a former hgv operator I have had safety drummed into me so that I always take a belt and braces attitude to security of load.
> I would take the view that it is the insurance co or others to prove tha normt the scooter was dangerously mounted.


Goldi

Thanks. Its the vehicle manufacturer which specifies the noseweight. Its got nothing to do with the capability of the towbar to carry the weight or the security of the load. While your towbar is able to carry 200kgs the vehicle is only deemed safe up to 85 to 100kgs (depending on your base vehicle) as indicated in Witter's response mentioned in my earlier post. I should add that I received identical advice from Swift. The maximum noseweight of your vehicle is specified in your vehicle handbook.

There are of course many motorhomers who carry scooters with seemingly no difficulty but I was merely pointing out that carrying loads on the rear of motorhomes is not always as simple as it first seems.


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## captainjc (Sep 14, 2010)

the bike with a engine is called a solex, seen them on ebay, john


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

gelathae said:


> goldi said:
> 
> 
> > Hello Gelathaie,
> ...


[ The maximum noseweight of your vehicle is specified in your vehicle handbook.]

Where would I find this information, in the base vehicle handbook it refers to the plate for gross and axle weights only (Peugeot Boxer) and I cannot find any reference to the "noseweight".

Keith


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

kaacee said:


> gelathae said:
> 
> 
> > goldi said:
> ...


Can't comment specifically on the Peugeot but the Fiat handbook has a series of tables at the rear under the heading "Van Weights" and each table gives figures for "Maximum load on tow hitch."

My 3500kgs Fiat has a tow hitch limit of 100kgs. To double check I also received information from Swift and Witter and their advice coincided with that in the Fiat handbook.

I would advise you to e mail or speak to Autocruise or even Alko?


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Just picked up on this thread as we went through this process a couple of years ago. One thing the OP might consider if payload or overhang is an issue - is this. At the Peterborough show this year was a guy offering an across the back rack that bolted on to the chassis but had a swiveling wheel that took the weight of the rack. I can't remember the name of the firm but someone with a brochure might remember and offer the details. There are one or two trailer manufacturers also offering bespoke versions. It looked substantial and only stuck out about 3 foot. The wheel takes the weight and you don't need a proper tow bar and when not carrying the scoot it can be removed by removing the quick release pins.

We are very fortunate in that our garage is large enough, has a 250kg floor limit and we have the payload to spare so we went for a Piaggio MP3 250cc. It will easily cruise at 80mph (where allowed) and return around 80mpg with two up. HWMBO likes three wheels - makes her feel safer


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## bozerboy (Feb 23, 2007)

*anyone remember the old "CYCLEMASTER"?*



vicdicdoc said:


> Now I'm getting old & lazy, I'd like just a bog standard pedal assisted moped like they used to have when I were a lad :wink:
> 
> We was in Holland a couple of weeks ago where its cycling heaven & once or twice I spotted [what looked like] an ordinary pedal bike with a small petrol engine & the chap riding it was whizzing along too fast for me to catch his attention to find out what it was or where to buy one . . we asked in a couple of the bike shops but no one seemed to know.
> 
> I don't want to go down the route of electric battery assist bikes or anything as big as the old Honda 90 Cub . . anyone got any suggestions ?


Hi. I I have only just read this post and although this answer is a little late, I think the bike Vic saw was a SACHS, where the engine is built into an aluminium rear wheel. A modern version of the old 1960s Cyclemaster


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