# I despair at some folk...



## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

We are in Portugal as many of you may know. We are on a great private 'campsite/aire at Parque da Gale near Albufiera which is run by one of the nicest families you could wish to meet (so nice we have been hare six weeks now).

Its 6.50 Euro a night including electric so it is very reasonable. Wi Fi is included and unlimited water. Three dats ago a Dutch couple stayed here for two nights and left without paying. In the past two weeks TWO separate people (one Portuguese/ the other unknown) have left with the 'free to borrow' electric hook up leads that Paulo lends out of the goodness of his heart so people can hook up properly.

If this sort of thing carries on two things may happen - price goes up and/or he will start asking for a deposit on the leads.

Not on - shame on you 

Sorry - I've vented!


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

it happens unfortunately, the self same people are the type that prevent aires being established in the UK and similar as they take, take, take !


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

It beggars belief doesn't it? I have seen a few times on small aires with hookup where vans turn up, hookup, spend a few hours looking around and then clear off before someone comes for the money. 

We were on one on the Loire last year near Angers. Quite a big Aire and around 7am everybody got up early and cleared off. We couldn't believe it but around 8am the lady came for the money. It had hookup and all services for about eight quid. 

I like a free nights stopover as much as anyone but this behaviour is the reason Aires are now starting to put up credit card operated barriers or ticket machines.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

Whatever happened to "treat others as you wish to be treated yourself"? Or do these ***** expect the whole world to go around kicking them in the goolies as well?
Someone has to break that pattern and set an example but it's difficult to sustain when it is just costing you money all the time.

I have a business contract with a Portuguese family company and they are the nicest people you could ever wish to meet - it must be a national trait. 
But with behaviour like this they must surely become very disillusioned with the plebs they accept into their site.


Alan


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

At Sarlat recently in the Dordogne we observed people driving in through the barrier normally but rather than leave thriugh the exit barrier and having their card debited the drove out through gthe entrance barrier without having to pay.......

We have also seen the use of a spanner to remvoe the arm so they can exit for free....

As has been said."take, take, take".

It is the sort of behaviour that generates a very bad name for all...

Totally agree with the venting of this as a topic 

Dave


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Every year end of march beginning of april we stay on the aire at Biarritz on the way home from Spain Theres a mass exodus of people walking off at 6,40ish returning around 8, reason? the Gendarmes come at approx 7pm for the money, its mainly the French but we have seen Brits do it as well,


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## GROUNDHOG (Mar 7, 2006)

It is just not on, the charges in Europe are usually very small anyway, someone has taken the trouble to supply those services so 'escaping' without paying is tantamount to stealing. Not on.


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

So we all agree this is despicable behavior, but is there anything we can do about it?

And just wonder if anyone reading this finds it acceptable or even will confess to doing it? It would be interesting to hear some justification.

Alan


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Alan

We have also seen it, particularly in Germany (down the Mosel) and mostly by the natives - so it seems pretty universal! :evil:

Now that almost all of us carry phones with quite good cameras, I had though about taking a couple of "_innocent_" photo's, which could be shown and passed on to the authorities if the aire had emptied by the time they came for the money.

Bloody despicable - and as several have said, they are the ones who ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

Are they congenitally stupid as well as self centred and pig ignorant!!

Dave

P.S. And if anyone on here does it, I do *not *apologise for my character assessment!!

P.P.S. I shall also be interested to hear how it can be justified - as a conscious and deliberate act. _(There obviously could be rare occasions where time restraints made it essential to leave very early (or whatever) but as a regular behaviour, or the mass exodus and return after the money has been taken . . . . how can that possibly be justified!)_


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

We've seen it too. This last time, at Baden-Baden, three of the 7 vans on the stellplatz had not paid when the council officials came round to check tickets in the morning. One was GB registered and 2 D. It's a newly laid out area and it could not have been clearer that you had to pay at the machine.

On the other hand, M'Lud, we'd like to own up to a free night at Baccarat stellplatz. We did try to pay; three times. The first time was before the 7pm payment period and we got the message "Not Yet !". The second and third time were after 7pm and well after 7 pm but the machine would not take any of our 3 cards. The same thing happened with the only other van on site, a French couple. We kept the money handy and felt like criminals all night but no-one came next day and the town hall was closed when we left next morning. How far should you go ?

G


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Morning Grizz

That's exactly why I added the P.P.S. to my post. :wink: 

There are obviouly infrequent occasions when, for whatever reason, it is difficult or virtually impossible to pay. On those occasions you try your best and can do no more.  

It's the calculated and deliberate avoidance of paying that cannot (IMHO) ever be justified. Those who do that on a regular basis are quite despicable in my view.

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Not trying or wishing to justify it at all. But I wonder if people who feel they are being screwed to the bone by parking charges at home or in the big cities feel a free one is OK...?  

I have stayed outside a beach side car park due to a height barrier (Climping Beach) on double yellow lines. But I was warned to clear off by 8am. before any wardens or plod came to levy any fines.

Ray.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

raynipper said:


> But I wonder if people who feel they are being screwed to the bone by parking charges at home or in the big cities feel a free one is OK...?
> 
> .


I think there is a culture of avoiding paying altogether Ray. After years of listening to my (16 year old) tutor group on related topics it seems there is a strong urge to get something for nothing even when it is clear that the "something" you are getting comes at the expense of the tax, rate or fare payers -ie most of us. It still surprises me how many think that money for running public or private services somehow appears from heaven.

Travel on any bus or train when the fare checkers get on and I guarantee there will always be at least one person who has not got a ticket.

G


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

We've stayed on the aire at Brantome, where there are honesty envelopes to put your reg number on, and the money in.
They are collected around 7:30am - 8:00am each morning from the postbox on site.

Both times there has been a mass exodus at around 7:00am, and I thought they were just leaving early to travel long distance, but I now wonder how many were leaving without paying.

One time we were there, the fee was 3 euro. I only had 4 euro in change so put that in the envelope. 8:00 next morning there was a knock on the door, and an attendant with change. My French was not good enough for him to understand that I told him to keep it, so accepted the change gracefully, but I was quite happy to pay 4 euro's.

My conscience would not let me leave without paying. Dispicable behaviour!!


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## catzontour (Mar 28, 2007)

TR5 said:


> My conscience would not let me leave without paying. Dispicable behaviour!!


Couldn't agree more. We've witnessed the same mass exodus from several French aires and can't believe some people's attitude.
It is so sad when a few people seem to think rules don't apply to them and end up spoiling it for everyone else.

Catz


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

I agree, its not as if its a lot of money at stake.

I will own up to one thing though. On our last trip out, we had been wild camping or staying almost exclusively on aires and the like usually usually free or paying about €4 max. 
On visiting one aire where the fee was €7, 'blimey thats a a bit steep' we both thought, until we had a laugh and reminded ourselves that its not expensive at all compared to prices in Britain, you just get into a mindset of expecting cheap fees abroad.



Pete


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I have been astounded to see the mass exodus early in the mornings in order to avoid the person collecting the money. I have seen it on several aires. Rushing would ruin my morning, I like to take my time over my morning tea. 

Once or twice I have even been advised to be gone by a certain time in order to avoid having to pay. Maybe many of us are just mean and dishonest, Alan.


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## catzontour (Mar 28, 2007)

And those of us who pay have been "brung up proper"  

Catz


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Like Zebedee I am aware that there may be times (probably very rare) when an early departure has to be made in order to attend to some pressing business 

BUT

these episodes seem incredibly common......

We stayed in the car park of a large Chateau in the Dordogne where there is a €3 charge for overnight parking,

we stayed until 4.00pm the day after we arrived and the kiosk was unmanned all day, the machine was no-functional so in spite of an overwhelming wish to comply we were unable......

Sadly though does not the "take, take, take - something for nothing" attitude reflect much of what goes on elsewhere?

I am thinking of those who "borrow" items from work such as pens, extension leads or whatever and "forget" to return them, or those that use their works provided vehicle for their own personal use, or those that stay in a hotel (or on a ferry) and make sure that they have secreted enough food away for their lunchtime snack, or who have removed every item from those provided in their room, including the pen, paper, tissues, shampoo, body wash, shower cap and possibly even the bathrobe.........  

How widespread are such activities? I will freely admit to being given printer paper to use at home for school - since work was being prepared at home, and using the odd acetate sheet for out of school activities but never found a use for dry-wipe pens or chalk so never felt any desire to "borrow" it......

Our sixth form students used to be given a ream of file paper each term, whether they needed it or not, most had nigh on six reams by the time they had completed their A levels and would never have dreamed of NOT taking it..... :roll: 

Dave


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

peejay said:


> I agree, its not as if its a lot of money at stake.
> 
> I will own up to one thing though. On our last trip out, we had been wild camping or staying almost exclusively on aires and the like usually usually free or paying about €4 max.
> On visiting one aire where the fee was €7, 'blimey thats a a bit steep' we both thought, until we had a laugh and reminded ourselves that its not expensive at all compared to prices in Britain, you just get into a mindset of expecting cheap fees abroad.
> ...


Ha Ha!! I know what you mean. As you know we are in Slovenia in the Triglav National park and you cant wild here and their are no Aires (well one or two) so we are paying about twenty quid or so a night for sites. Its breaking my heart!! :lol:

Totally daft in the great scheme of things when you think how much we spend on diesel, food, drink and seeing stuff. Its only for a few days and then three days on a motorhome Aire near Venice for about the same then back to free Sostas and Aires but I cant get my head round paying for sites!

On a different note, I bet none of these fee dodgers would do the same on a campsite.

I must admit though I refuse to pay for parking the van when travelling. Ill just park it in a street and use the bike.


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Zebedee said:


> It's the calculated and deliberate avoidance of paying that cannot (IMHO) ever be justified. Those who do that on a regular basis are quite despicable in my view.
> 
> Dave


But what is wrong with that?

Everybody does it Politicians, bankers, all rich people (so it seems, if you read the papers) inc. so-called comedians, benefit fraudsters, "cash in hand" tradesmen etc. etc.

C'mon get real you'all, it's the way of the world now, as Gordon Gecko and his Auntie Maggie told us "Greed is Good".

If you can't get it by cheating - it ain't worth having.

Why should motorhomers be the odd ones out?
:roll:


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

Aside from the issue of leaving without paying - how do you 'leave' with the electric lead that the owner lent you??

That is theft.

At Portimau we regularly watched motorhomes parked around the corner at 9.00pm waiting for the attendant to 'clock off' and they would exit before 0800am the next day.

The cost of 2.50 euro must have been too much for the French* Hymer owners to bear 

*other nationalities may be involved in such activity but number plates sporting the 'F' were in the majority. A (very nice) French lady we spoke to in Spain said they would 'never' pay for an aire - not even 3 euro...

"Thanks for keeping the industry alive..."


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> or those that stay in a hotel (or on a ferry) and make sure that they have secreted enough food away for their lunchtime snack, or who have removed every item from those provided in their room, including the pen, paper, tissues, shampoo, body wash, shower cap and possibly even the bathrobe.........
> 
> Dave


At the risk of sounding sexist I have noticed in the past that women are the greatest offenders in this case! 

They just cant seem to resist the Hotel freebie (Well as you stay nicking stuff from the hotel)

Me? Im just lucky if I can leave a hotel room with my own stuff let alone anything else!

In my old life though my company expenses were legendary and still were ten years after I left (The company has since gone bust). I think I put some MP's to shame! 8O

Id like to say Im not proud of it (I was young etc) but I cant help looking back at the things we got away with and smiling.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

CONFESSION

I arrived at Canterbury Park/Ride before I knew about closing on Sun.

We parked outside but I did walk in the cassette and took a couple of cans of water. 

I suppose i could have paid the full ticket price, but my defence is that previously I had parked there for 2 hours only to use the bus for 2 of us instead of using all overnight facilities. Same price.

Consequently I feel Canterbury and I are quits.

Totally agree with those who condemn the 'cheats' 

Geoff


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## cheshiregordon (Sep 24, 2011)

During our last trip to France we were staying at a site with few EHC points and to position the van and be able to connect I asked the owner if I could borrow a lead to add to mine!. She said that all of her leads were now in the UK and she'd stopped lending any out.
So slightly embarassed I did the best with what we had!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> I think there is a culture of avoiding paying altogether Ray. After years of listening to my (16 year old) tutor group on related topics it seems there is a strong urge to get something for nothing even when it is clear that the "something" you are getting comes at the expense of the tax, rate or fare payers -ie most of us. It still surprises me how many think that money for running public or private services somehow appears from heaven. G


Bit like the Olympics G..... ?
As it's being funded by "them" it doesn't matter how many billions are poured into the gaping hole.

Ray.


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## Brightsider (Jun 21, 2012)

barryd said:


> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> > or those that stay in a hotel (or on a ferry) and make sure that they have secreted enough food away for their lunchtime snack, or who have removed every item from those provided in their room, including the pen, paper, tissues, shampoo, body wash, shower cap and possibly even the bathrobe.........
> ...


Surely there's a distinction between the freebies and actually nicking hotel property though? :?

Shampoos, soaps, biscuits, coffee/tea sachets etc are placed there as _complimentary_ items for your use. I don't see what's wrong with taking them to use later instead of using them at the time. Surely that doesn't make it stealing?

Ditto rolls etc from breakfast. I never have much of an appetite first thing in the morning so a large hotel breakfast buffet is completely wasted on me. I do, however, get hungry mid morning, so I will often take rolls/croissants etc to eat later. It's still the same quantity - I haven't taken any excess food - I've just chosen not to eat it at an early hour. Surely that's not stealing? I have paid for it after all.

I agree that towels, bathrobes etc are clearly out and out stealing, no question.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

raynipper said:


> Bit like the Olympics G..... ?
> As it's being funded by "them" it doesn't matter how many billions are poured into the gaping hole.
> 
> Ray.


Please don't get me started on them Ray !!

G


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## coppo (May 27, 2009)

Brightsider said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> > Penquin said:
> ...


No, thats not stealing, I do the same. If you left the hotel without paying the bill though then it would be stealing, which is exactly what the OP has reported is happening.

Paul.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Brightsider said:


> It's still the same quantity - I haven't taken any excess food - I've just chosen not to eat it at an early hour. Surely that's not stealing?


"_Same quantity of food_" is the vital point here BS.

Unlike the party of Japanese who went down to breakfast before us at one small hotel in France. We arrived just as they were leaving with every last roll, croissant and anything else edible clutched in their hands and stuffed in their pockets. They had even taken all the little pots of jam, and emptied the cereal containers. 8O

There was literally nothing left for us and several others, but when the hotel staff challenged a couple of the Japs, they came the "_Me no speaky French_" routine and there was nothing she could do.

That *is* stealing . . . my breakfast, and those of several others!! 8O

Dave


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## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

Didn't I read a thread here only last week with detailed advice how to avoid paying to stay overnight at Disney, Paris?

How many people have forgotten their bike rack when booking their vehicle length on a ferry?


But I think the reponders to this thread are, as always, self selecting and suspect there are some people on the forum who are just lying low.


To be clear, I'm in the honesty brigade and always pay up for Aires, parking, hookup, correct tolls etc etc


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## Brightsider (Jun 21, 2012)

Zebedee said:


> BS.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Should I have thought through my user name a little more carefully? :lol: :lol:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

trevd01 said:


> How many people have forgotten their bike rack when booking their vehicle length on a ferry?


Me - regularly in recent years! 8O

Having on several occasions had the vehicle behind parked (by direction of the ferry attendants) with its nose virtually touching my back bumper - *underneath the bike rack* - I now no longer pay for the space that someone else is using.

Not quite the same as deliberately bolting to avoid paying for the use of an aire or whatever. :wink: I couldn't attempt even the feeblest justification for that!

Dave


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Zebedee said:


> Having on several occasions had the vehicle behind parked (by direction of the ferry attendants) with its nose virtually touching my back bumper - *underneath the bike rack* - I now no longer pay for the space that someone else is using.
> 
> Dave


Have this on us Dave ! We bought tickets, registering as having a bike rack, and have now decided not to take the bikes with us.

G


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## Chausson (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi
We have seen this practice on many occasions mainly by the French and have been told by some French guys so go away for some time and leave before eight in the morning.
If we are on an aire and cannot pay we usually ask a French person [if available] to pay for us and then pay them the cash, we find we have to give them the money first it's as if they don't trust us, I mean for a couple of Euros.

Ron


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## rtaff (Jul 7, 2012)

People deliberately not paying just puts the prices up and gives everyone a bad name.

However, what happens if you genuinely need to leave before 8am(or whatever time the pay person comes)?


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I must be missing the point somewhere.

The money collectors are avoided by an early departure? Is that what is being said?
Can someone explain why the collectors cannot visit earlier or even the previous evening instead of generating a get-out-free system?

There are many people, including myself at times, who like to be on the road as early as possible to catch up on miles before it gets too warm.
We have also met the money collectors in the late evening after everyone is settled in except for the few who arrive after dark and leave before morning light. These late travellers benefit little from the stopover other than a nights hurried sleep. 
Alan


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

In my experience, normaly when someone collects the fees they usually visit twice a day, sometimes in the evening and then in the morning so it might be possible to pay the night before.
With municipal aires then it should also be possible to pay at the Mairie if you're leaving at an unusual time.

Pete


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

rosalan said:


> I must be missing the point somewhere.


'Here' a lady collects money at about 7 to 8 pm in the evening - you can also call at ther house to pay up after that or early morning. The people I refered to in my first post stayed two nights - avoided seeing her at all and dissappeared after two days/nights stay...


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Alan, a lot of the people who collect the money have other jobs, Alan.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

........ and the Marie is probably only open from 0830 until 1200 and then 1400 to 1800 - if you even know where it is......and they are probably unaware that a number of people have disappeared before any due fees could be collected....

If when you check the site there are three there, you collect the fees from 3, you are unaware of the other 9 that went before you got there, so are blissfully happy that you have collected the fees for three loyal users.......

We stopped for 2 hours in a parking place near Calais once, (totally unaware of there being a charge there as there were no signs to indicate it. We came back in time to catch the ferry and discovered a bill on the windscreen - no-one at the local council office knew who or where to pay, most were unaware that there was a charge. The Marie were not responsible for it (we checked) and pointed us to a nearby campsite, but the office was shut for lunch..... so what more could we have done? If we had delayed any further we would have missed the ferry....

I regret to say we caught the ferry rather than miss it trying to locate a person who would accept the €5 they were trying to charge us for 2 hours parking. I hasten to add we had a fluent French language speaker with us who was unable to ascertain who/what/where we should pay from any of the local shops/cafes/lifeguard patrol centre/beach police or restaurant owners.

There are times when those expecting payment do not make it easy for themselves....... :roll: 

we tried, and failed so are probably black-listed now at that location....   

Dave


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

To be honest I would never attempt to leave anywhere without paying

If there is a clear indication about how and where to pay then I will 

But I am not prepared to wander all over searching out a place to pay

Some responsibility must rest with the owners of the parking/aires etc

Aldra


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## norrie (May 1, 2005)

Up on the Isle of Lewis near Harris there is a fantastic location for a campsite and on the way in there is a message..
please pick up an envelope from the campers kitchen pay for your nights stay and put it in the letter box on the way out.
Thank You

We could see the letter box from our pitch and nearly everyone stopped and posted their envelope...

Norrie.


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