# battery advice please



## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

Firstly, i know that this must have been covered a few times, but falling short of reading every post all the way through, i'm hoping some kind sole can get me straight to the point.

new van (to me, 2012 Rapido) with 2 new leisure batteries (varta, either 96a or 77a, cant tell becaue both are printed on the sticker?)

Been away for first weekend, drove 3 hours to get to seaside, after parking up for 3 hours we had a battery warning light. Had to start the engine and run idle for 30 mins to see us through the night. We had 2 LED lights on, sat tv, and gas heating which i suppsoe uses electic to run the fan. We have 100w solar, but this was during the night.

I was very surprised that the batteries didnt last very long. So, on the way home the missus checked the control panel while we were driving, and it showed a daytime charge of 6amp. The solar normally gives us 1amp during the day, so i guess that meantthe alternator was charging at 5amp. 

Question 1: Does this mean that with 150amp cap batteries, it will take 25 hours driving in daylight to fully charge from flat (dont worry, i wont let it get flat, just interested in the sums) ?

So, got home and plugged into the 240v. The control panel still showed a charge of 6amp, and it has been on charge all night.

Thismorning, control panel shows that i have a full battery. What is worrying me is that it shows the leisure battery at 13.4 v, which i know is higher than it should be?? My other problem, is that when measured with a meter, the first battery shows 13.25v but the second 12.7v (which is what i would expect).

I see that on a previous posting, a chart reads " batteries just taken off charge will have a significant higher voltage until the surface charge decays over 30 mins"

Question 2: Do the batteries charge in parralel, so in other words both batteries should always have the exact same voltage ? Would you expect this 'surface charge' to only be on one battery, or should both have the same 'over charge' ?

Quaetion 3: I'm going to test the battery today by swithicn on all lights and accessories, check the control panel for amapge used, and then work out the number of hours and the finishing battery voltage to see if the drain is correct. Is this a good way to test, or is there a better way ?

Greatly appreciate any input anybody has to give....


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> My other problem, is that when measured with a meter, the first battery shows 13.25v but the second 12.7v (which is what i would expect).


Can you confirm that you mean that the leisure batteries were showing 13.25v and the cab battery 12.7v and not that each leisure battery was reading the different voltages?
How did you actually carry out the measurement?


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

I didnt include any cab battery readings in the post.

With 2 leisure batteries, one reads 13.25 and the other 12.7

I have a digital volt meter. I set it at 20v DC, and stick the red on the positive and the black on the negative. Sorry, i'm not too clever with lekky, just in case i'm doing something foolish !

The control panel is switched on, so i am under load from the solar panel. With the control panel switched off, so no load i guess, i'm still getting 13.3v on the first leisure and 12.7 on the 2nd..


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Sounds like he was measuring the two leisure batteries, but let's wait and see.

Peter


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

The votage is the potential difference between the pos and neg pole of the batteries.

if there was no charge coming from anywhere then the 13.25 is a bit high but check that the solar isnt giving a charge.

Put the tester on the pos pole of one battery and the neg pole of the other to see the volate of the bank of batteries and see what you get

the issue may be that you have unmatched capacity and should really have 2 batteries of the same A/h.

Put a few things on that you know the current draw off and see how long they last.

Battery issues are usually down to dead batteries its just that we dont want to admnit it till were sure but a couple of new 110 or 120s shoud do it.

Make sure wires terminals and all the other obvious stuff are secure and not loose..

Phill


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> the first battery shows 13.25v but the second 12.7v (which is what i would expect).
> I see that on a previous posting, a chart reads " batteries just taken off charge will have a significant higher voltage until the surface charge decays over 30 mins"


I too am slightly confused with your readings. Are you taking them off the control panel? In which case I would assume the first 'battery' to be the pair of leisure batteries and the second 'battery' to be the engine battery? In which case the readings seem good. Anything up to 14v is normal for a battery that has just been charged.

The problem with taking a reading whilst the batteries may be charging (solar panel or charger) is that the voltage will always read high because of the charge going into the battery. You will not get a truer reading until after charging has stopped and then it could be a while till it drops to its true level.

Are your leisure batteries wired up properly - Positive to one battery, negative to the other?

JohnW


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> I didnt include any cab battery readings in the post.
> 
> With 2 leisure batteries, one reads 13.25 and the other 12.7
> 
> ...


Are the battery connecting links still in place when you take the measurements? If they are can you disconnect them and measure each battery individually again with the solar panel disconnected and the batteries disconnected from the load.


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

The batteries are brand new Vartas, both identical, both installed by the dealer when i bought the motorhome a few weeks ago. On top of the battery is printed 2 lots of information, one says 77a and the other 96a, so i dont know which i have.

All readings are coming from the actual batteries. The positive of battery 1 gives me 13.4v regardless if i meter it across negative battery one, or negative battery 2. The same with the positive of battery 2, it always reads 12.7 regardless of which negative terminal i probe.

I have had the Control panel switched off for 30 mins now. On my previous vans this would stop the solar panel charging my batteries, but the solar panel charging block still has an LED lit for charging, and for load. I guess that means that it continues to charge, regardless of whether the control panel is switched on or off.

The solar panel charger unit does not seem to have an off switch, apart from pulling the wires out of the teminals, i woudn't know how to stop it charging.....any other clues?

I'm guessing now that the 13.4v reading on battery one is because it is still under charge by the panel ?

Thanks for the replies and help by the way ! I know the easy thing is to speak to my dealer, but it was bought from a french dealer 300kms away, and my tehcnical french on the phone isnt very good.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> I'm guessing now that the 13.4v reading on battery one is because it is still under charge by the panel ?


If that were the case and you have a good set of battery linking cables then the voltage would be the same at both batteries. What size of link cables do you have? Have you got a photo? To stop the solar charger from charging cover it up with a coat or blanket etc.


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

rayc said:


> Are the battery connecting links still in place when you take the measurements?


Yes, still linked together.

To pull the solar panel charge, i think maybe i should disconnet the wires from the terminal on the charger unti. Would i just have to pull the outgoing live one ? Or should i pull both ? or should i pull the incoming ?


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> The solar panel charger unit does not seem to have an off switch, apart from pulling the wires out of the teminals, i woudn't know how to stop it charging.....any other clues?


chuck a coat or dark blanket over it - like its night time :wink:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> > Are the battery connecting links still in place when you take the measurements?
> ...


After you have covered up the solar panel with a coat or blanket etc then disconnect the positive link cable between the batteries and measure each battery again.


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

I think i'm going to wait till tonight and measure again... will be easier...

If i put on all lights, Sat TV and stereo, i'm drawing 5.3amps (probably 6amps becuase of the solar panel).

With a fully charged set of 2 x 75amp leiseure batteries, allowing that i can get to 50% charge without too much worrry, does that mean that i should get 14 hours of power ?

75 x 2 = 150 / 50% = 75amps / 5.3amps = 14 hours ??


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## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not sure if this will help you but we have recently bought a one year old Pilote and I wasn't sure how good or bad the Leisure battery was – it's a Pilote 'own brand' battery.

I recently took the battery to a local battery distributor (Manbat) and they kept it for a few days to check its condition.

They gave me a print out of the performance which showed the percentage of how well it performed – a very good battery they said.

With that reassurance I took the MH to a local Caravan and Motorhome servicing business and they checked the performance of the battery when everything was switched on – Combi heater, Fridge/Freezer, lights (16 LED bulbs) – we don't have or intend getting a TV.

We have an 80 watt Solar panel, on the day they tested it was raining and overcast, which still gave some input despite the weather conditions.

The results were good and they were confident we could do at least a week without hook up this time of year and forget about EHU altogether when away on holiday as the weather improves.

I would suggest you have the batteries checked by a competent battery distributor and then checked under load by a local MH service provider.

We had a couple of Elecsol batteries fitted to the last MH we owned and according a test on one of them by Manbat the Elecsol was no more than a glorified car battery and totally unsuitable for using as a leisure battery in a MH.

One other point; the Pilote battery weighs 24.4 kilos and the Elecsol battery weighs 16.5 kilos (my saloon car battery weighs 12.5 kilos) – heavier appears to be better.

Is this the Varta battery - because if it is it's a car battery and not a Leisure battery.


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

KeithChesterfield said:


> Is this the Varta battery - because if it is it's a car battery and not a Leisure battery.


Thanks keith, but batteries are this... they look the part.

http://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD90-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-930090080-P3638.html

Since 12.00am, starting with fully charged after EHU overnight, with everything switched on, battery 1 reads 12.47, battery 2 reads 12.67, control panel says pulling 5.6amp , but reading is 11.9 v

Looks like maybe i have the juice, it is just the control panel that might be mis functioning ?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

jd_boss_hogg said:


> KeithChesterfield said:
> 
> 
> > Is this the Varta battery - because if it is it's a car battery and not a Leisure battery.
> ...


Rapido generally use a CBE system and it is possible to calibrate the volt meter in the display. See Set Up on page 13 of the link.
http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/pdf/PC100_PC200_DS300_ENcircuits.pdf


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## jd_boss_hogg (Aug 26, 2009)

I think its time for a visit to the garage... would everybody agree? Shame, because its 300km round trip !

here are my readings... taken with a digital meter on each battery, and then a reading from the control panel..

Most electrical things switched on, control panel says pulling -5.6 amps

Time Bat 1 Bat 2 Control PAnel
12:00 13.25v 12.7v 13.4v
12:40 12.47v 12.7v 11.9v
13:20 12.38v 12.7v 11.9v
14:30 12.1v 12.7v 11.6v

So, the control panel thinks the battery is alsmost empty. The 2nd battery charge hasnt moved at all. The first battery has dropped to 50%, and assuming it is using only 1 battery at 90amp, that is about 40 amps used in 2 and hal;f hours, where it should be 5.6*2.5 = 14 amps


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## berni109 (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi,
If i had this problem i would remove one battery and do the tests on each one separately.
1)Charge each fully and remove solar input.
2)Measure V's after 30mins sitting without load.
3)Put on known load for a period - then switch off load and measure V's.
4)do 3 until v's down to 11v

repeat for 2nd battery.

should then know if both batteries are operating the same.
if they are then need to know how they are connected together when both in situ?

a dedicated multimeter is prob more accurate than the vans meter but worth doing comparison for future reference.


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## teamsaga (Feb 26, 2006)

hi jd
looking at your voltages I would suspect bat. 2 is not doing anything. 
If your bats are linked they would always give similar readings but your bat 2 only ever reads 12.7v. are you sure the fuse has not blown between the bats? 
Your panel is possibly reading a voltage drop on bat 1 caused by the cable being undersize?


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