# Scooter question



## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi Everyone

We are thinking about getting a scooter to put on the back of the motorhome.
My question is about the driving licence rules.

I dont drive and hubs passed his test 1991 I have trawled various sites and I think its OK for him to drive a 50cc bike but is he allowed to take me as a passenger? I cant seem to find any info on that

Thanks for any replies


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Licenced*

Providing the rider has a full motorcycle licence, it is OK to take pillions, provided the pillion has a safety helmet on the head.
But remember, it is only 50cc, so power is not that great for heavyweights ! :lol:


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

have a look at this page, it should give you the information you want.
cabby

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/RidingMotorcyclesAndMopeds/DG_10016249


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi

He doesnt have a bike licence only car.


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## SGMGB (Sep 17, 2009)

If he passed his car test before a certain year (i cant remember what year) and the scooter is 50cc or under he can ride it without L plates and carry a passenger. I checked this out with the DVLA and my insurance company before i purchased a scooter 3 years ago, so unless the rules have changed you are ok.


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Hi 
Yes he can ride a 50cc scooter without L plates and yes he can carry you as a pillion  
I think most people on here that do ride scooters would recommend he should still do a CBT or some other training to get use to using a scooter on the roads :wink: 

Alan H


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Getting a scooter is I think the best addition you can make to a motorhome. Its so liberating. Loads of little tracks and roads to explore. However as the previous poster said I would aim to get your bike licence so you can ride a bigger CC scooter. a 50cc will be ok for poping down the shops or doing a few miles around where you are and you will then be able to decide if you like it or not. A 100cc or 125cc though gives you so much more pulling power and range. More importantly on a longer journey on a main road it will keep up with the traffic and 50 or 60 mph whilst your 50cc will be getting in the way at just 30. Watch the weights though as well. Most vans struggle to legally take a scooter so get one as light as possible.


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

Fatalhud said:


> Hi
> Yes he can ride a 50cc scooter without L plates and yes he can carry you as a pillion
> I think most people on here that do ride scooters would recommend he should still do a CBT or some other training to get use to using a scooter on the roads :wink:
> 
> Alan H


You need to be carefull with regard to doing a CBT. I recently had a conversation with my Friend concerning the use of our 50cc Scooter. I only have a car license and have not sat a CBT. My friend who is a Chief Inspector and spent many years in the traffic section informed me that if I sit a CBT I am technically classed as a learner and on the road to achieve a full bike license therefore, if you sit your CBT and do not have a bike license you can no longer carry a pillion.

I know this sounds completely crazy. But my friend is obviously very switched on with regard to traffic law. So I'm left confused and did not bother with a CBT

Stewart


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## stevegg (Jun 4, 2009)

We use a 50cc Peugeot Vivacity on an EasyLifter Hydratrail. This will do 30 mph with two up on the flat, total load 140kg.

I am doing my bike test in order to be able to drive a 125cc scooter for commuting to work. I believe you need to consider where you want to use the scooter and what for.

Because the 50cc only does 30mph we are happy to ride in France in the summer in shorts, tee shirts and gloves. Full protective gear is a real pain in these temperatures if you are going to a market, vineyard etc. 

If you travel at 50 - 60mph you then need full protective gear, at least I would. I guess you may be disciplined enough to ride the 125cc at 30mph I know I'm not.

We will probably continue to take the 50cc on holiday in the summer and use the 125cc at home.



All the best

Steve


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

[
You need to be carefull with regard to doing a CBT. I recently had a conversation with my Friend concerning the use of our 50cc Scooter. I only have a car license and have not sat a CBT. My friend who is a Chief Inspector and spent many years in the traffic section informed me that if I sit a CBT I am technically classed as a learner and on the road to achieve a full bike license therefore, if you sit your CBT and do not have a bike license you can no longer carry a pillion.

I know this sounds completely crazy. But my friend is obviously very switched on with regard to traffic law. So I'm left confused and did not bother with a CBT

Stewart[/quote]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Looks like it will have to be a 50cc with no CBT for a while then.
Its a place to start and we can always go bigger with the proper licence if we like it.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm certainly glad that I got my full licence 46 years ago, what a faff it is nowadays. :lol: 

tony


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Alan H[/quote]

You need to be carefull with regard to doing a CBT. I recently had a conversation with my Friend concerning the use of our 50cc Scooter. I only have a car license and have not sat a CBT. My friend who is a Chief Inspector and spent many years in the traffic section informed me that if I sit a CBT I am technically classed as a learner and on the road to achieve a full bike license therefore, if you sit your CBT and do not have a bike license you can no longer carry a pillion.

I know this sounds completely crazy. But my friend is obviously very switched on with regard to traffic law. So I'm left confused and did not bother with a CBT

Stewart[/quote]

How would that work with any other provisional then? ie having a full car licence but also a provisional LGV/PCV/HGV? A provisional bike licence doesn't affect you driving a car, and would quite clearly say what provision you still would have in other catagories. When I recently did my over 7.5ton HGV, the 3.5 to 7.5 ton catagory was still unchanged while having a provisional Cat. C.

Thats a very poor reason for not taking additional training! It was recently made harder due to the number of deaths of people riding on a provisional after a few hours learning in a car park. It would be a big mistake to think that being an experienced car/lorry/whatever driver makes you competant on two wheels.

Please, get some training!


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> Alan HHow would that work with any other provisional then? ie having a full car licence but also a provisional LGV/PCV/HGV? A provisional bike licence doesn't affect you driving a car, and would quite clearly say what provision you still would have in other catagories. When I recently did my over 7.5ton HGV, the 3.5 to 7.5 ton catagory was still unchanged while having a provisional Cat. C.
> 
> Thats a very poor reason for not taking additional training! It was recently made harder due to the number of deaths of people riding on a provisional after a few hours learning in a car park. It would be a big mistake to think that being an experienced car/lorry/whatever driver makes you competant on two wheels.
> 
> Please, get some training!


Hey Grizzly,

Don't shoot the messenger!

I am only telling you what I was told. I did add that I have no idea if this is right or wrong.

However, if it is correct and you do your CBT then go on to carry a pillion and you are stopped only to find you have no License to carry a passenger you are looking at possible prosecution.

I suggest that the OP checks this out and I was only trying to be helpfull.

I did not do my CBT because of this reason I did it because I felt I did not need it. I have driven bikes of all sorts on private land. Again this was my choice!

Stewart


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi sorry I wasn't shooting just asking!


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

grizzlyj said:


> Hi sorry I wasn't shooting just asking!


No probs mate :wink:

It does seem very strange I must admit.

I will give my mate a call and ask him to get all the details and try and update on here for defo.

I agree that CBT is the correct thing to do, but if doing it makes your license void then you need to be aware of this as it could lead to issues with the law and insurance if the worst was to happen

Stewart


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its probably a good thing that its got harder. I passed my test in 1984 when I was 18 on a crappy honda 100 that only just worked. Piece of cake, really easy to pass. Went out the next day and bought a 650 that was way to powerful. How I didnt kill myself is beyond me. All I wanted to do was see how fast it would go!


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

46 years ago mine was a 125 Vespa that could get up to 40mph. One year later changed to a car. 3 years ago I revisited my teens and got a Piaggio Fly 125, 12months later to a 250cc Aprillia Sportcity. No change since, it has discs front and rear, no fade descending the moutain passes, and fairly flies UP them. :lol: I've yet to cover a 1000 miles, but I'm working on it.

tony


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

CBT is compulsary basic training and is not a test.
Advisable for anyone returning to motorcycling.

One can then progress to larger than 50cc bikes and take the relevant tests.
I tok the test before the three test regime came in this year.
Daughter passed all 3 first time.
Got knocked off bike on 2nd outing after test.
Car drivers :evil: 

Dave p

1. CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) This must be completed before riding on the road using L plates. You must visit a government approved training body such as Camrider in order to gain the CBT certificate.
Ages: 16 to ride a 50cc moped, 17 to ride 125cc bike, 21 to learn (not ride alone) on 500cc


2. Theory Test. In order to go forward to passing your full test you must get a pass in a motorcycle theory test. Camrider can help you with this free of charge with coaching and help to access mock tests. 
3. Direct Access or Standard test. If you are 21 or over you can take training and test on a 500cc bike. When you pass you can ride any motorcycle of any power. If you are aged 17 to 20 or not fussed about bigger bikes you can take training and test on a 125cc bike. You get a full licence but are restricted in power for two years. 
4. Module One test. The test has now been split into two elements. Everyone must be able to pass an off road test that shows you can corner, swerve, emergency brake and slow ride. Camrider has unique access to practice sites and training techniques to make this test much easier. 

5. Module two test. This is the final practical riding test where you are followed on the road by an examiner with a radio link. You need to show you are a competent well trained rider. Camrider is an award winning company with the largest amount of fully qualified instructors in the region. We are the best choice to get your pass certificate, and we make the experience fun, safe and good value for money.


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi

Thanks everyone for the replies.

We have talked it over again and decided that next year we will get the full training and licence.
I dont drive but I am thinking of doing this instead of hubs as he does all the driving already. I think that is only fair really


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

PILOTEFAN said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> 
> ...


Mrs D has been insured to drive our van since we got it in early 2008. She has never driven it ever. I really should get her to have a go as if for some reason I cant drive one day we would be stuck. She isnt keen though and if Im honest neither am I!


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Mrs D has been insured to drive our van since we got it in early 2008. She has never driven it ever. I really should get her to have a go as if for some reason I cant drive one day we would be stuck. She isnt keen though and if Im honest neither am I![/quote]

:lol: 
I dont think hubs would want me to drive either. He loves driving
especially long distance its all part of the holiday for him


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

PILOTEFAN said:


> Mrs D has been insured to drive our van since we got it in early 2008. She has never driven it ever. I really should get her to have a go as if for some reason I cant drive one day we would be stuck. She isnt keen though and if Im honest neither am I!


 :lol: 
I dont think hubs would want me to drive either. He loves driving
especially long distance its all part of the holiday for him[/quote]

Im the opposite in that I dont like the long distance stuff. I love it when you arrive in an area and then are "touring" just doing a few miles at a time but a long haul to Dover or 6 hours down a motorway at motorhome speeds does my head in. Now what I do like and hopefully you will get to enjoy the same thing is getting out of the van after a long haul, discovering its 25 (or more) degrees and getting out on the bike.

I remember last summer we were at Lake Annecy in France on 14th July Bastile day. It was madness, motorhomes and people everywhere. The lake was just full of people and it was really hot. We biked right round the lake and up the mountains just in our shorts and T shirts. Every now and then we would get off the bike and dive in the lake, get off soaking wet and just carry on. We stayed a couple of days and enjoyed the carnival party atmosphere then took off into the hills and wild camped on our own.

Good luck with the scooter, you wont regret it


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Now what I do like and hopefully you will get to enjoy the same thing is getting out of the van after a long haul, discovering its 25 (or more) degrees and getting out on the bike.

I remember last summer we were at Lake Annecy in France on 14th July Bastile day. It was madness, motorhomes and people everywhere. The lake was just full of people and it was really hot. We biked right round the lake and up the mountains just in our shorts and T shirts. Every now and then we would get off the bike and dive in the lake, get off soaking wet and just carry on. We stayed a couple of days and enjoyed the carnival party atmosphere then took off into the hills and wild camped on our own.

Good luck with the scooter, you wont regret it[/quote]

Now that sounds like my kind of holiday.
I cant wait for next year


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Not wanting to put a damper on things but have you looked into the technicalities of putting a rack and scooter on the back yet?

Lots of vans dont have enough available payload spare weight to take one. A 50cc bike will be lighter than a 100cc or 125 but not by much. you need to look for something around or less than 100KG if possible but do the calculations first. There is a good calculator here. http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/features/loading-back.html

Some of the new scooters are very heavy. We got a Peugeot Speedfight II (see Mrs D on it in Avatar) which is just about the lightest and fastest 100cc you can get at 95KG, the 50cc is about the same weight.

There are loads of posts about it as well including one of my first ever posts on here.

Dont know where you are in the world but Armatage Trailers near Ferrybridge (up north) fitted my rack. They are excellent. Takes me literally 1 minute to put it on or take it off and its so easy a child could do it.

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/motorhomes.htm

Cheers
BD


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## badger750 (Nov 1, 2009)

i see lots of people on scooters and read allot of posts on here from people with/getting scooters and nobody talks about proper protection yes all people get helmets but what about proper jackets and gloves i know its a pain and i hate putting on my gear when its warm/hot but least if you do have a tarmac interface you can get up hopefully with out any skin problems .it would also be worth checking with your travel insurance if you did have a tarmac interface whilst on a scooter abroad with no proper gear on would they still recover you back to the uk as most normal holiday policies won't cover scooter use abroad . sorry if this has put a downer on the post but there has been a couple of posts about accidents which has been other peoples fault rather than the riders fault 

terry

ride happy and safe 
p/s i hate being off my bike for more than a day


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

barryd said:


> Not wanting to put a damper on things but have you looked into the technicalities of putting a rack and scooter on the back yet?
> 
> Lots of vans dont have enough available payload spare weight to take one. A 50cc bike will be lighter than a 100cc or 125 but not by much. you need to look for something around or less than 100KG if possible but do the calculations first. There is a good calculator here. http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/features/loading-back.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up once I have sorted out a licence I will start looking for a bike. To be honest it wont be for a while as we have just bought the van so funds are very low  but it means I have lots of time to investigate the best bike and trailer for us. 
Thanks for the sites I will have a look.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

On the subject of proper gear, yes your probably right but Im not prepared to drive around beach areas etc when its 30 degrees in leathers on a Speedfight. For one I would look stupid and secondly its too much hassle. We did fall off in January in Devon on a CL in the snow at about 10mph. We were so padded up though for the cold we just rolled around in it laughing.

Stupid? Yes probably. We wont come complaining if I end up with a tarmac arm.


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

I've fallen off once...at 2mph. The wife thought that I had stopped and started to get off, there was no way of saving us :lol: The dog finished up at one end of his box whilst we were on our sides, me still holding the h/bars. :lol: 

tony


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## anteater (Oct 29, 2009)

It all sounds great fun and I can't wait to have a scooter when we do full-timing quite a few years down the road.

I see now that I could drive the 50cc which is good to know. However, what bothers me is that we might not be able to get our combined weight on the scooter. This is about 130kg so we are quite light, but I was worried we would have to have a 100cc or 125 cc which other half will be able to drive, but I won't, so we'll either have to go out together with me on the back, or he can go out alone but I can't...  and then there is the weight on the back of the van to worry about. 

Does anyone know for sure if we can get 130kg running around on a 50cc scooter? Are any of you doing this? It would be equivalent to one 21stone person!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Come to think of it when did you last see anyone in Europe wearing protective gear on scooters? Its only recently they started wearing helmets. I always wear a helmet these days apart from on the little island of Paxos not that long ago when we hired a bike and they didnt have any!


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

anteater said:


> It all sounds great fun and I can't wait to have a scooter when we do full-timing quite a few years down the road.
> 
> I see now that I could drive the 50cc which is good to know. However, what bothers me is that we might not be able to get our combined weight on the scooter. This is about 130kg so we are quite light, but I was worried we would have to have a 100cc or 125 cc which other half will be able to drive, but I won't, so we'll either have to go out together with me on the back, or he can go out alone but I can't...  and then there is the weight on the back of the van to worry about.
> 
> Does anyone know for sure if we can get 130kg running around on a 50cc scooter? Are any of you doing this? It would be equivalent to one 21stone person!


The two of us are a good bit more than 130kg's  and we get on fine. When I bought the last scooter it was recommended we go for the two stroke rather than a four stroke as it has a bit more torque. We purchased a Vespa which was a little more expensive but we arte well pleased with it. The dealer derestricted it for us, which was our choice, I know it's illegal but we are prepaired to take the risk. :roll:

Stewart


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## anteater (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks stewartwebr.

If it is illegal, doesn't this mean you will be uninsured on it?

All the best
Ant


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## stewartwebr (May 27, 2005)

anteater said:


> Thanks stewartwebr.
> 
> If it is illegal, doesn't this mean you will be uninsured on it?
> 
> ...


I'm told the difference between restricted and unrestricted on the Vespa is a small washer that need to be removed. It is highly unlikely that it would ever be detected, well so I'm told by the dealer.

No doubt I will be told be countless others on here that is not the case and I'm a reckless idiot for doing so :lol:


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

Since the original question mentions 50cc only, limited to 30(?)mph I would think protection other than gloves may be OTT? Downhill on a pushbike you can easily exceed this and noone ever mentions protection there. Is there a difference I'm missing?

Since a trailer rather than a bikerack has been mentioned, assuming funds allow in the future, why limit yourself to two wheels?

Quads are an obvious alternative, or for (ahem) £4500, you can have three wheels;

http://www.uk.piaggio.com/en_UK/listino_prezzi/configurator_step2.aspx?id=34

The UK law defines the difference between a bike and a car by, in part, the width between the front wheels. Their brochure only states it for the more expensive 400cc version which may have a wider track, but you can drive a Piaggio 3 wheel scooter on a car licence. Bike testers loved the huge amount of grip in the wet from having two front wheels. Press photographers at Le Mans seem to have taken to them since they're less likely to fall over on gravel, and at slow speed they'll hold themselves up 

stewartwebr reckless idiot!!!


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