# French Gypsies?



## Pugwash (Jun 12, 2005)

Howdy, 

There's an obvious answer to this question and quite probably its the right answer but somehow something didn't add up.... 

On a recent trip around France we ocassionally saw gypsies encamped by the road side. The usual collection of caravans and vehicles of all ages and condition parked in slum-like conditions in lay-bys or on spare land. We also saw processions of newish white vans towing new or very nearly new Fendt caravans, mostly in the south east from Lyon south but also further west. They were always Fendt caravans but the towing vans varied between Mercedes, Renault, Citroen etc. These rigs were invariably fairly new, clean and in good condition. They didn't look at all like the vehicles we saw on the gypsy campsites. 

Are they gypsies too? Are there different types of gypsies? Or is there another explanation? 

Regards 
Pugwash.


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## 104441 (May 11, 2007)

We saw these as you say mainly white vans all Fendt caravans with sat. dishes on top in the raised position (is that okay driving down a motorway at 60mph). 
Quite a few gypsies in Britain have vans and use them to carry out their businesses whether that be putting a centimetre of tarmac on a pensioners drive, moving rubble to a local beauty spot or throwing whatever is not locked down in the back of the van.
Apologies to any honest hard working gypsies. :roll:


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

No different from over here. Big new caravans towed by commercial vehicles. Don't know about Gypsies, that seems to be a very abused description. Best to call them travellers as just about anyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon. 
It seems that the French are having a similar issue to the UK but they are faced with travellers from Eastern Europe. They are the reason why many sites will not now accept Fendt or Hobby caravans or twin axle in general. This is now transmitting to motorhomes as more of them are now buying motorhomes.
I'm told that my answer to the problem is illegal.
Gerry


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

We saw a number of Fendt double axle caravans in France this year, usually with a 'white van' towing them, and with washing machines either parked outside the caravan or in the back of the towing van.

Whoever or whatever they were, they were normal campers with families, enjoying the nice weather and the site facilities. Camping Municipales don't seem to have any objection to them being there, and why should they?

Gerald


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

and agreeing with your sentiment Gerald, neither indeed should we.


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## Carper (Aug 15, 2007)

Pugwash said:


> Howdy,
> 
> There's an obvious answer to this question and quite probably its the right answer but somehow something didn't add up....
> 
> ...


Hi

We also saw a lot of Fendts being towed by newish white vans in the south, especially in Provence. One day in particular we saw in excess of 100 in convoy.

We asked a site owner in the area why they would all seem to be moving at the same time. He explained that it would be to do with the seasonal work that these people do. He went on to explain that they shouldn't be confused with the _*other*_ type of Gypsies, though I wasn't too sure what he meant by that, but i have a good idea.

Quite a few of the white van drivers waved to me as we passed....that really confused me :?:

Doug


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

in Western Europe, France has (after Spain) the second largest population of "ethnic Gypsies", AKA Romanies. However, most of them are sedentary already for a long time (and many in Provence), only very few are still travelling all year. Though seasonal travelling has remained quite popular.

In France Romanies are recognised as an ethnic minority, and local councils are obliged by law to temporarily allocate a certain area of land for travelling Romanies. (Sometimes in French towns you will find signs "Gens du Voyage", which indicates such land.)

If you are touring southern France in May/June, you will see many Romanies on their way to or from "The Gypsies' Pilgrimage" at Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, which takes place end of May. An event that attracts also many non-Roma tourists every year.

By far the most of them are decent, hard-working people. But of course, like any other group, they have their share of rotten apples.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## lucy2 (Jun 27, 2007)

We have just returned from 3 weeeks in france and saw plenty of the gypseys/ travellers as mentioned with new white vans towing only fendt vans & trailors with washing machines. In fact we stopped at the muncipal in calais on the last night and about 10 familys were staying on site we found them all well behaved and the children well behaved not like the uk.


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## 104477 (May 13, 2007)

Boff said:


> (Sometimes in French towns you will find signs "Gens du Voyage", which indicates such land.)
> Best Regards,
> Gerhard


Thanks Gerhard, I have seen this sign a few times and not found out what it meant. Tend to forget to look things up due to the excitement of visiting a new place. :lol:

Mainland Europe seems to have an abundance of travelling fairs, so some of these "convoys" may be part of one of these.

Rob.


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

what's the difference between a 'gypsy' and a 'full-timer'?


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## asabrush (Mar 3, 2008)

b16duv said:


> what's the difference between a 'gypsy' and a 'full-timer'?












A question asked quite often. My view on it would be a gypsy is a nomadic traveller who is born into the life and who's family go back generations as being the same.

A fulltimer is someone who has chosen to leave being a " settled " person,living in a unmovable home,to one who lives in a motorhome/caravan,either in one location or nomadic


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## averhamdave (May 21, 2005)

So a "fulltimer" isn't a gypsy, he's a "traveller"? 

There seems to me to be quite a difference between traveller sites here and in France. The ones I've passed in France seem to be orderly, clean and tidy. You see rubbish bagged up for collection at the field gate and the place not a sea of mess, rubbish, old settees and cookers strewn about the place as you do over here.


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## hymerowner (Sep 10, 2006)

Main complaints in France are that the monopolise all facilities - electric, water, etc etc to the detriment of everyone else. Lots of sites ban twin axles because of this. Small municipal sites often wage war against them and you see areas for "gens de voyages" everywhere to attempt to stop them. I can't get a French bank account because I have no fixed address there so how do they get insurance etc?


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I don't think there is the same distinction in France between the Gypsy / Traveller community and the fulltimer with a motorhome who is making a lifestyle choice to leave the settled community.

In France all travellers are classed as persons without fixed abode (SDF or “sans domicile fixe”) and fall into 2 groups:

If SDF with a regular source of income they are classed as “caravaniers”. They must choose a French “commune de rattachement” as a permanent local authority to belong to. This issues them with a 5-year “livret special de circulation” or travelling permit which must be stamped annually with a visa to allow them to remain in France. 

If SDF with no regular source of income they are classed as “nomades”. They must still choose a French “commune de rattachement” and require a “carnet de circulation” that has to be stamped with a visa every 3 months to allow them to remain in France. 

Failure to produce these documents renders the traveller liable to 1 year’s imprisonment.

Not sure that this information casts that much light on the subject of French Gypsies, but the greater degree of regulation exercised by the French state might explain why the French* Gypsy generally seems more socially responsible and less of a nuisance than his counterpart in the UK. 

SD

*PS I'm talking about the French Roma people and not recent immigrant Roma from Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic etc.


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## Texas (May 9, 2005)

One of our favourite spots in France is Fontaine le Vaucluse. 

I was saddened to find the area between the massive car park and the river taken over by a huge group of 'travellers', they had obviously removed the large boulders which acted as the boundary, to gain access. 

They hogged the tiny toilet area and were using the large outside washbasin to bath their kids in...so there was no way you could use the facilities.

There were lots of dogs wandering about and hoards of kids racing around on quad bikes (4 to a bike seemed the norm).

The menfolk were enjoying a rather boistrous game of 'petanque', needless to say we moved on rather than risk an 'overnight' there.


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Should you happen to come across either of the two caravans stolen from us by the "travelling community", please do let us know.

( and yes, it WAS them - the police have the evidence.........but not the caravans ) .


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I have a foolproof method of avoiding prejudice.

I simply hate everybody. 

however, theres a huge difference between Tinkers, gypsys, travellers, fulltimers. Its not a difference between the group names, its a difference in attitudes of the individuals in each group. 

I s'pose what I am ( badly ) talking about is the individual who considers it ok to dump 3,00,000 tons of rubbish in the place they do/have occupied. Those whom have no second thoughts of disrupting the local communities by intimidation, or those who reject the " capitalist oppressive society which Britiain is today" and yet demand parking facilities, medical care and social payments from the Government.

Having said all that, I have been in housing estate which make a midden heap look like a tidy, hygenic place to live. So, peeps is peculiar, wherever they live.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

We once wildcamped with some french gypsies whilst travelling through France on our journey over to Morocco. Admittedly we did not realise they were french gyspies when we pulled up as it was dark when we arrived, but we soon realised we were in the middle of a gypsy camp! 8O Bearing in mind the reputation of gypies we really wasn't sure whether to move on or not but we were both tired and we had already had no joy in finding an aire or a campsite in the area - so we decided to stay put and take as many precautions for our safety as we could! I must say everything was fine and at no time did we ever feel at all threatened or afraid. We watched them through our window all sitting around the camp fire and dancing and I swear to this day I saw some of them practising fire eating! 8O 

The next morning when we eventually ventured outside, they all smiled at us as they passed by and seemed happy to acknowlede our presence but none of them actually approached us. When we drove off they all stood and waved us off and we happily waved back respectful of the fact that they had shown no signs of objecting to our intrusion! 

I was amazed to discover when we pulled onto the road immediately in front of the wasteland that we had been parked on, that the french gypsies had somehow managed to run an electric cable up to, what we can only presume was the mains electricity supply box for the residents of the street nearby, which basically meant they all enjoyed FREE electricity!

I suppose this only goes to prove we can never judge any book simply by it's cover can we?

Sue

PS By the way the site itself was kept very clean and tidy and I do not recall seeing any signs of litter or mess lying around at this gypsy camp.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

*Traveller has caravan stolen*

I know one shouldn't take enjoyment from the misfortune of others, but I couldn't help having a chuckle at this story in the local press:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...nterbourne/article-339365-detail/article.html

SD


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

*French Gypsies*

Hi, A French campsite owner once told me that the sort of "traveler" I think are being discussed here are in fact homeowners from the south of France who let their homes out for the summer and spend the time touring, so we can see that although they might appear intimidating they are doing the same as most of us! We certainly have never found them to be anything but pleasant and respectful of other campers, their children particularly are very well behaved, unlike some we have encountered on sites in this country! So I suppose what I am saying is, live and let live, that would certainly be our attitude until such time as proven different.
curlyboy


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi Sue,

probably they did not even wild camp but this was a "Gens de Voyage" area. At least a temporary one assigned to them by the local authorities.

we have experienced the same as Sue two or three times while touring France. We also were never ever bothered in any way. And: If you camp among gypsies you can be absolutely sure that the local yobbery will keep off.



Sonesta said:


> I was amazed to discover when we pulled off onto the road immediately in front of the wasteland that these gypsies were sited on, that they had somehow managed to run an electric cable up to, what we can only presume was the mains electricity supply box for the residents of the street nearby, which basicall meant they had FREE electricity!


Most probably this was also done with the consent of the local council resp. the electricity board, and running either via a provisional meter or against payment of a lump sum, so not free.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Hi Gerhard,

I obviously do not know whether they had been granted permission or not but regardless of this they were very respectful to their surroundings and to us and we certainly had no complaints whatsoever. 

Regards the electricity, I must say it did all look very crudely done and was just a simple extension type lead, leading to some kind of main supply box and it certainly did not look like anything that was professionally installed or even safe - but whether they were paying for this facility or getting it for free I cannot honestly say - but it looked pretty homemade to us! Still I guess I will never know the answer to that one will I? LOL  

If we were ever that way again - we would definitely stay with them again but next time I think we would ask if we too could plug into their electricity supply ha ha! :twisted: I mean when in Rome you must do as the Romans do! :wink: I daresay though they will have moved on to pastures new by now! 

Sue


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Sonesta said:


> I must say it did all look very crudely done and was just a simple extension type lead, leading to some kind of main supply box and it certainly did not look like anything that was professionally installed or even safe...


Well, then probably it was very professionally installed. The French way. :wink:

My job has brought me to hospitals all over the world, also in France. And what I have seen there regarding electrical installations, that I do better not describe in detail here. Too many professional electricians listening here. :wink:

Maybe some of you remember the (professionally installed!) hookup point on the _former_ aire at Baume-les-Dames? Unfortunately I did not yet have a digicam then: Two ordinary sockets, screwed to a wooden back plate that was bolted to a lamp post at about eye level. And the only protection against moisture and rain was an old plastic shopping bag wrapped around it.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*gypsies*

Gypsies/Travelers,

In France they seem a bit more upmarket. For example when in Annecy a couple of years ago, some had a trailer with Bosch washing machine and tumble dryer side by side (washing machine waste was dumping straight onto the grass mind).

Those who know the area, heading towards Cogolin from Gassin La Foux roundabout has a large open space, often crammed with "Romanies". Some family members with us thought it was a cramped for a campsite.

Never had a problem with them in France.

However, here in the UK our local council is plagued with them. A few months ago they took over a lane leading into town and turned it into a tip, literaly, old driveway and rubble just dumped on the raod. As they have done since I was knee high to a grasshopper and that is some time ago. The cleanup operation cost a small fortune and was paid for by our council. I drove past last week and they are back, undisturbed. Yet other local residents get persicuted by the authorities for minor incidents.

Me and my Wife were stopped by a Police officer for cycling the wrong way down a one way street. Yet the neighbouring Gypsies set the streets alight and the local Gangsters often get the blind eye treatment too.

Mad is it not, you just have to laugh. :lol:

Trev.


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*French gypsies?*

The ones you see with all the good stuff are market traders mostly. stay with these they wont rob you !Dont mix the UK ones with the euro ones , yours are mainly Irish who come and earn a few bob leave loads rubbish ,then back home to the big house in the fair country! Its a pity that they are treated ( roma's) like they are and are often forced out of their own countries ,remember 60yrs ago !! what happens in france is for the french to sort ,your only a visiter" move on," Motorhomes are becoming just as big a problem destroying habitats ,leaving rubbish !offloading tanks ? its not all proper on our side of the fence.


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## LittleGreyCat (Jun 22, 2008)

This answers a question I had after staying on the quay at Deauville last week.

There was an encampment there of mainly Fendt caravans, complete with trailers with washers and driers, and lots of yellow pipes for plumbed in water.

There was also a huge articulated lorry/caravan in with them so money didn't seem to be a problem.

They were along the sea/river wall overlooking Trouville.

Note that contrary to the Aires guide there are no toilets or water available to camper vans at Deauville, although plenty for the sailors.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

b16duv said:


> what's the difference between a 'gypsy' and a 'full-timer'?


Ethnicity.

Dougie.


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