# Parking prevented at Wells-next-the Sea, Norfolk



## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm sad to report that the quayside is now "Cars Only - No Camper Vans".

We used to enjoy sitting with lovely views over the estuary and the marshes, but our first outing of the year was spoiled on Friday. The availability of free parking on the road between Oct & Easter also seems to have been reduced (one side only, and that was full).

It is possible to park (Oct-Easter) by the sailing club, where the road is quite wide, the views are pleasant and there is a litter bin, grass and a public bench, if any of these things take your fancy. It's only a short walk into town.

The "main" carpark near the Ark Royal pub is available, but spaces are small and sloping, and you need to purchase 2 tickets if you overhang another space. At £1.20 per hour per space, this could be expensive.

Wells is still a good place to visit and cheap (free?) parking can be found away from the harbour-front, but it's not really suitable for a relaxing sorjourn.

Gordon

Gordon


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Mine isn't a "camper van" it's a "motorhome" or according to the V5 a "motorcaravan" which for most legal purposes (MOT Testing and speed limits for 2) makes it a "Car".

I wonder what the traffic order or by-law that imposes that restriction actually says.

It could be about as legal as the "No Camping" signs on Scottish lay-bys.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

To be legal, the sign should be backed up with details of a TRO (Traffic Regulation Order). If not, it is just another illegal sign.

Ask the Council for the details of the TRO, they must give it to you under the Freedom of Information Act within 30 days.

I would also assume by using 'camper van or campervan' that it is not enforceable in law due to the point that Stanner made ie campervan or camper van is not a legal definition.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I believe that any TRO would have to be issued by Norfolk County Council but there are no indications of any having been done for Wells-next-the-Sea;

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/Travel_and_transport/Roads/Traffic_management/NCC042571

http://search3.openobjects.com/kb5/ncc/search/results.page?qt=wells+next+the+sea+TRO

but of course I may well have missed something - but that might give you a starting point as Highways (inclduing Parking) is under the control of Norfolk CC and not Wells-next-the Sea...... :roll:

It sounds like the signs may have no legal validity at all, and they could not be applied to the vehicles anyway as that classification does not exist on the V5......

double whammy to my way of thinking - but fairly typical of some local dogooders aka as Councillors.....

Dave


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

The relevant authority is North Norfolk District Council

http://www.northnorfolk.org/files/Car_Parks_2012-web.pdf


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## 1302 (Apr 4, 2006)

We noticed sdigns at North Berwick last week that stated 'no vehicles over 7' 6" (or similar) preventing motorhomes from parking on either side of the street that overlooks the beach.

I cant see how 'No Campers' can be a valid roadsign... :roll:


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## Nordet (Jan 27, 2008)

The quayside car park is very small, and not the easiest to negotiate.

Last summer we saw motorcaravans parked in there at 8am for the day over 3 days, they had gone after 7pm . We were on the C&CC temporary holiday site in town and at the time I thought that someone was going to get upset if this was a regular practice.

The car park at the far side of the Pinewoods campsite is well out of town but has the excellent beach a few minutes away. The cafe is very good up there with live music on a Sunday lunchtime in the season.

Lovely place to let the world pass you by!


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

I understand that the 7'6" signs at North Berwick are also not enforceable. Just hoping that it will put people off to let the residents have a clear sea view.

Dave


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

1302 said:


> We noticed sdigns at North Berwick last week that stated 'no vehicles over 7' 6" (or similar) preventing motorhomes from parking on either side of the street that overlooks the beach.
> 
> I cant see how 'No Campers' can be a valid roadsign... :roll:


From http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/scot.htm



> North Berwick
> Received 15 December 2006. When we visited North Berwick (East Lothian) last Christmas we were surprised to find that the council had slapped 'no vehicles over 7'6" to be parked here' signs just about everywhere. On a visit back there at Easter I asked the TI where we could park. Anywhere was the answer. Explained about the signs, they knew nothing about them. Suggested I spoke to the council, which I did. The man in the office knew nothing about the signs, but spoke to his friend in Transportation. Eventually the comment was that we could use the car parks (which are free) as long as we parked in the bays. It didn' t matter if we took up 2 bays. We've tried this out and as long as you get in to the town early enough to bag 2 spaces in line with each other there doesn't seem to be a problem (Thanks to JC for this information).


As with so many - unenforceable bluffing.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Stanner said:


> The relevant authority is North Norfolk District Council
> 
> http://www.northnorfolk.org/files/Car_Parks_2012-web.pdf


Unfortunately, Wells quay is private property. As mentioned, the NNDC site has small spaces ([email protected].20p hour is allowed, and the ticket is transferrable to other NNDC parks) and is sloping, with little to attract us.

I've parked on the Quay regularly over the last 5y and always found the attendents helpful but "ever present": little chance of not displaying a ticket (not that I wouldn't  ).

I would happily pay the £5 per day (I think that was the charge last time), but as I went to sweep in to an almost empty quayside on Friday, I spotted the new sign. "Cars only - no camper vans". I didn't stop to inspect the T&Cs (which used to be near the harbour masters office) and we didn't walk in that direction later in the day.

Although the Beach Car Park (also private property) is cheaper (£2.50, I recall) it doesn't have any sea views, just the ridge of trees or the lake if you are "lucky". At this time of year we like to rock up, get the heater and the kettle on and read a book (not much radio reception in the area), watching the multitude of activities on the water and the marshes. The Quay was ideal, but we'll just have to park for free in front of some of the residencies near the yacht club.

Win some, lose some.

Gordon


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

H1-GBV said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> > The relevant authority is North Norfolk District Council
> ...


Perhaps this site then - they have a "leave a message" facility.

http://www.wellsharbour.co.uk/index.htm

Ask a question.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Stanner said:


> Perhaps this site then - they have a "leave a message" facility.
> 
> http://www.wellsharbour.co.uk/index.htm
> 
> Ask a question.


I've posted as follows:

I have often enjoyed parking on the Quay, accepting the daily charge as a worthwhile cost in return for being able to sit with a good view and in close proximity to the facilities in the town.

Unfortunately, I discovered on Friday 1st February that I am no longer welcome. My crime? I drive a motorhome rather than a car.

In the past I have been advised by your helpful attendents to park in the large spot almost in line with the entrance. Alternatively, I have parked near the wall, ensuring that I do not obstruct the flow of traffic. I appreciate that maintaining a good working environment is important.

I notice in your January newsletter that you have assessed the amount of money brought into town from vessels. I can assure you that motorhome owners tend to have a reasonable disposible income and are often willing to spend where they are welcomed. Sadly I have had to describe your actions in banning "camper vans" (which is not a DVLA description) and I have suggested that, like me on Friday, they park free of charge (Oct-Easter) near the sailing club but avoid Wells during the rest of the year. I hope that you will be able to re-assess your parking decision (perhaps even creating MH-friendly spaces available for 24h, as with the "aire" system in France) and I will be happy to disseminate any good news on the widely-read Motorhome Facts forum.

I am happy for you to contact me if you would like further information about any aspects of this email - Gordon


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Message sent to the link address, thanks.

I will notify you of any response (But won't hold my breath)

Dave


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Reply received back;

_Firstly as a Trust Port, Wells Harbour Commissioners (WHC) do not come under the FOIA.

However to answer your email, citizens are not excluded from visiting the quay car park owned by WHC. There is no discrimination as to footfall visitors, however with regard to vehicles, the car park signs have always stipulated "No Camper vans". Last year WHC replaced the old signs with new signs as they were deteriorating but it has always been the case that Camper vans are not permitted. The reason for this is health and safety. Our car park has limited space and large vehicles are unable to turn safely when the car park is full. In addition due to lack of available space we are unable to provide parking for disabled badge holders. Disabled badge holders are not exempt from parking charges and must display a valid ticket.

There are other larger car parks in Town where you would be able to park your vehicle safely such as the Beach Car Park and Stearman's Yard.

Regards

Louise Allen
Harbour Administrator_

I am not sure that helps make progress, but at least they are aware that concern has been expressed....... :roll:

Dave


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Penquin said:


> Our car park has limited space and large vehicles are unable to turn safely when the car park is full.


Really, isn't that the case in ALL car parks?

So what about "camper vans" (e.g.Mazda Bongo, VW T2 etc.) which are as small as and probably more manouvreable than Range Rovers?



> In addition due to lack of available space we are unable to provide parking for disabled badge holders.


Is that legal under the DDA?


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

I received a similar response fromWells, so I shall not repeat it. I did, however, respond as follows:

_Dear Ms Allen

Thank you for your swift response.

I am surprised that camper vans have been banned, as I have regularly parked my large (6m long, 2.8m wide) white motorhome on the Quay. Your attendents have always been helpful (as I stated previously) and have sometimes directed me to ensure that I was parked safely, which I believe is a very important criterion for your working quayside.

I appreciate that manoeuvring can be a problem when the site is full, but my motorhome actually has a smaller turning circle (due to rear wheel drive) than my large, front-wheel drive car. It is also equipped with reversing sensors and a rear-view camera, as it would be costly to repair in the event of being damaged. I understand that this may not be the case with all large vehicles and I accept that your reasons for the ban sound reasonable, although they may be incorrect in some cases.

I am aware of the parking available at Beach Car Park. It is cheaper than Quayside, but lacks the lovely views and proximity to the town. Stearmans Yard is closer to the town but I would be charged £2.40 per hour as my motorhome would not fit into one of the small places allocated for a single car: again it lacks those panoramas of the estuary and marshes, which my wife and I so enjoy.

In France, and many other continental countries, dedicated motorhome parking places are provided often free of charge, or at very low rates eg €5 per day. These encourage us to visit communities and we invariably contribute to the local economy. Some enlightened places in the UK are starting to understand how valuable these facilities can be. If it was possible for you at some future point to consider providing a couple of places for larger vehicles, then I for one would be very grateful.

Thank you, once again, for your swift response - Gordon _

Wells really is a good place to visit but there are very few places on the North Norfolk coast where you can sit on a cold winter's day to enjoy the rich diversity of bird life AND views of the sand, sea and sky.

Thanks for all the support - Gordon


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would just like to amend your last sentence slightly Gordon.

"There are very few places to park on the coast".

That was my impression on the trip we had down there in 2011. We will not be going back. Shame really, nice people and nice countryside and coast. Shame about the parking. 8O


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Stanner said:


> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> > Our car park has limited space and large vehicles are unable to turn safely when the car park is full.
> ...


TBH it IS a small, triangular shaped car park with unfenced access to a 20ft quayside wall, dropping vertically into water/mud (similar to Watchet, where that child almost drowned recently). It is also a "working" quay, with chains sometimes snaking across the concrete and, on rare occasions, moving "plant".

I'm not sure about blue badge holders. I know I was fined £80 for parking in central London when taking f-i-l to the British Museum, just after he got his badge. [It was revoked on appeal, I'm pleased to say, but I was warned not to do it again.] Perhaps there are restrictions on the "free" use of facilities?

I guess a "sensible" response might be to just close it completely to public access.  - Gordon


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

'Motor Caravan' is the legal term for a......................................motor caravan :?

Campervan, Camper van, Camper, Motorhome are all Colloquialisms

For legal documents, legislation and regulations to have effect legal terms must be used, colloquial language because of its ability to confuse is not acceptable.

I'm not a lawyer so maybe I'm wrong, any lawyers out there.


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