# Looks Like Brownhills Have Struck Again



## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

This afternoon bumped into an old friend only problem was he was making use of a Electric disabled scooter to get about and looked awful. I was aware he was the owner of a 2007 Autotrail.He told me he had not driven the Van since April. The reason being he had visited the Brownhills stand at the February NEC show where he had fallen for the Van the junior Salesperson dealing with him told him he could not drive it 7500kg as he was 74 years. Resigned to this he was about to move on when a senior Salesperson appeared on the scene where the problem was explained to him and he asked my friend to wait whilst he made some phone calls.He returns with the good news Brownhills have just taken delivery of two of the models and one is on a lighter chassis?. :roll: 

Old friend overjoyed signs up spending 44 grand or something like that. Takes delivery after one month log book arrives yes you've got it over 750kg.
Brownhills asked for money back no but we will give you 32 grand for it. salesperson denies any conversation over weight. Friend and his wife who is also disabled have had to rely on other people driving them in their Van for the odd weekend. I have offered to drive the van through Brownhills showroom. :evil: Oh by the way the reason for the scooter was a heart bypass and diagnosed with cancer. (nothing to do with stress i bet)


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## 103818 (Apr 9, 2007)

What a shocking way to treat people. At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask when he robbed people. I visited Brownhills when we were still looking to buy our first motorhome. Was not impressed by the set up so walked away and reading some of the reports on here thank god I did.

Hope your friend continues to recover.

Gwyn


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## 92664 (May 1, 2005)

Unbelievable.......
The older salesman was obviously just thinking of the commission.
What a scum bag. He'll get his one day. Karma and all that.


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Hi once your over seventy you have to take a medical to retain your grandfather rights to 7500kg. If he hasn't his licence will have reverted to 3500kg max.

I entirely agree, bunch of scumbags.

Olley


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## Bubblehead (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi

Its amasing the depths to which some people will go. Brownhills should be totaly ashamed of themselves. Can the van be returned as unfit as they must have had his details when they registared the van and they would have known that he was over the age limit. I think he should seek advice from CAB.

Hope his health improves

Bubblehead


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## plumbill (May 6, 2006)

*Looks like Brownhills have struck again.*

Terrible thing to do on anyone. I am a great believer of "what goes around comes around" I visited a Brownhills near Preston when on holiday touring around and didn,t like the attitude of the salesman I was talking to,insisting that I give him my mobile number I gave it to him with 3 numbers the wrong way around , said bye bye and left. Thank God I did. Plumbill


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## LPDrifter (Aug 17, 2005)

That's a terrible story. 

There are some good dealers out there who will give
good and helpful advice... and they are the ones you go back to.

However this story just goes to show that you have to be
very much on your guard when you are walking into
anyplace looking to buy and with £44 grand in your hip pocket.


With that amount of money at stake, you have to check and
double check everything.

Brownhills should at least look into it and fire the guy

I hope your friend's health improves


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

Why would they fire him? He just made them £44,000 that they might have lost. I think any sense of moral responsibility is sadly misplaced on a lot of people in the motorhome sales business. And be sure they can get out of anything. If he tries to say that they were aware of his age, they would just reply that they assumed he had taken his test to retain his grandfather rights-after all, why would he be "silly" enough to buy a 3.5+ ton chassis otherwise? Unless all of these things are in writing or independently witnessed, they dont exist in law so your friend is stuck with it.
I really think it is time for stricter regulation of the motorhome industry as a whole, and I have great sympathy for your friend and his situation.


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

Thought i'd mention what I witnessed yesterday while I was in Brownhills at Newark. I was in the shop waiting to get some LPG when a customer came up to a "larger framed" salesmen and asked "Could you tell me about reverssing camera's?". The salesmen replied "Yes, when you put your motorhome in reverse, you can see behind you". The customer was visibly unimpressed. The salesmen than made a token laugh to try and make it into a joke.... my reaction - "what a t***er".

p.s. Brownhills LPG is 43.9p a litre, not much cheaper than at the fuel stations, so won't be visiting again. Someone had told me it was cheaper, but obviously only by a few pennies a litre at best.


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## plumbill (May 6, 2006)

I think we are all doing the proper thing in highlighting Brownhills for being the unsavoury people that they are. Things like this should always be put in the forefront to warn people off before they become a victim . A motorhome pal of mine always buys his motorhome from them so I have pointed him to this thread and he is disgusted and won,t be purchasing again from them. Surely Brownhills are a large enough firm with many outlets around the country to make good this devious piece of sales behaviour. I feel sorry for the junior salesman as im sure he has had his knuckles rapped for being honest, My advice to hm is "Get out of Brownhills now before they corrupt you son"


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

Surely this comes under the sales of goods act.... It is not fit for the purpose he wants it for? They should have asked him about his license as it would be a criminal act if he was to drive it away on an ordinary car license surely. When I picked mine up they checked my license and insurance before they let me have it.

Shall we get a posse together and go and stand outside with placards telling what a bunch of con artists they are, and I should know, been there got the Tshirt. Luckily being a pushy git I got mine sorted out.

Hope he gets it sorted v soon.

Johnny F


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## LPDrifter (Aug 17, 2005)

Waleem said:


> Why would they fire him? He just made them £44,000 that they might have lost. I think any sense of moral responsibility is sadly misplaced on a lot of people in the motorhome sales business. And be sure they can get out of anything. If he tries to say that they were aware of his age, they would just reply that they assumed he had taken his test to retain his grandfather rights-after all, why would he be "silly" enough to buy a 3.5+ ton chassis otherwise? Unless all of these things are in writing or independently witnessed, they dont exist in law so your friend is stuck with it.
> I really think it is time for stricter regulation of the motorhome industry as a whole, and I have great sympathy for your friend and his situation.


The reason they should fire him is that although he may have made £44,000 worth of sales on this occasion...how many sales will they loose in the future because lots of people are reading about this experience and will avoid Brownhills in the future if they believe that they are just going to get ripped off


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## legend654 (Mar 28, 2006)

Just out of curiosity I went on the Autotrail website to see what their Vans weigh. I have a Hymer B654 which is heavy at 3900KG. Do you know which model it is? Could this be a registration error? I thought only RV's start coming in over 7500KG. Just trying to help here.

Guy


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

The problem is that Brownhills are making tremendous amounts of money REGARDLESS of their well publicised deficiencies in customer service. A cynic such as myself might take from this that they really don't care. Now if they lost 50 % of their customers, that might make a difference but given the amount of customers they clearly have, I feel that is unlikely.
I'm in no way sticking up for their shameful practises, its just that I feel this is a realistic picture, and a reason for their "Don't care" attitude.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

What makes me angry is that it shows brownhills dont have a real love for the motorcaravanning way of life. Its just a business. They may as well sell whelks on a whelk stall although they would probally fleece some poor sod at that.

Anyone who can fleece an old guy in a wheelchair cannot love what they are doing only the money they make. Just like a drug dealer.

Maybe the low life who did this may end up in a wheelchair himself one day and then realise what its like.

phill


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## 104705 (May 24, 2007)

Waleem said:


> Unless all of these things are in writing or independently witnessed, they dont exist in law so your friend is stuck with it.


Not true! Anything said verbally forms part of the contract if it induces a sale. The problem is proof, so the outcome may well be the same. I wouldn't leave it there, and would seriously consider further action.


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

*Brownmitts*

-Who owns this bunch anyway?


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## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

The Bank owns it, or probably more than one.

Bob


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## motoroamin (May 22, 2006)

Am I missing something here?

What Autotrail model is it?
What Autotrail is at 7500kg - none that I know of
What was the chassis lightened to?
What does the plate say on the vehicle?

There's no excuse for sharp practice, but please can we have some facts about the vehicle.


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## citroennut (May 16, 2005)

'Am I missing something here? 

What Autotrail model is it? 
What Autotrail is at 7500kg - none that I know of 
What was the chassis lightened to? 
What does the plate say on the vehicle? 

There's no excuse for sharp practice, but please can we have some facts about the vehicle.'


the vehicle will be over the 3500kg limit so will therfore be classed as a vehicle UP TO 7500kg which is a different classification on your licence which you need to apply to keep after your 70th birthday. this inc. a full medical. so a vehicle at 3850/3900kg falls into this catagory.
simon


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## motoroamin (May 22, 2006)

Agreed about the 3500kg limit at 70, and with the gents' disability he may have been at 3500kg for some time. Depending on the model, it _may _be possible to downplate it to 3500kg.

So we need the facts about the vehicle - never mind what it says on the logbook, people can make mistakes at registration.

What model is it, and what does it say on the plate?


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Please don't shout at me I'm very fragile :wink: Am trying to contact the owner did so all last night will try again today.


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Right managed to get hold of him bearing in mind he goes into Hospital Monday for major surgery. The vehicle is the Swift Cheyanne 660. 3245 kg leaving him 155kg load to remain legal which is as much use as a chocolate teapot.
So they have not sold him a illegal vehicle but certainly one not fit for purpose taking in his age and what he is allowed to drive. He further informs me that Brownhills offered him £31000 when he informed them he was taking legal advice they rang back and told him £35000 but you do not discus this with anybody else other than your wife. (something to hide) or the deals off.
I have advised him to speak to a Solicitor. He had asked Brownhills to remove numerous items to get the weight down and they refused. He feels he is at fault and I have told him they sell the product they are the experts and they should be making you aware of the problems. Basically they have sold him and his wife both Invalids a vehicle which put some clothes in and it is over weight.


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

Oh dear-I'm afraid he doesnt have a leg to stand on, as you say the van is perfectly legal for him to drive. Unfortunately, there are no regulations about payload allowance and its not the first time I have come across a van with not enough payload to carry a pack of ****-it seems worryingly common. I even once saw a 6 berth van that couldnt even carry four people, let alone their luggage!
Time for some kind of regulation? Maybe an average payload per person could be established and applied to all new vans as a minimum ?


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## motoroamin (May 22, 2006)

So, does the plate say 3500kg? And where does 3245kg come from?

Depending on whether Autotrail comply with EN 1646-2 and what 3245kg includes, he could consider -

travelling without water in the tanks

limiting to one gas bottle, or going for two smaller ones

removing the spare wheel and carrying a 'fix it' kit 

removing any unused bed boards or tables, or overcab bed assembly if fitted.

Limiting personal effects to those which are necessary - motorhomes often accumulate more stuff than is needed.

This might all sound a bit drastic, but if the gent likes the van, wants the van and doesn't want to lose money, there just might be a way to bring the payload margin up a bit.

If motorhome is plated to 3500, BH would probably argue that they supplied as required. If its over 3500, then they should not have supplied it anyway.


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## legend654 (Mar 28, 2006)

If you look at the attached link on Autotrail website it gives weights for all their vans.

http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/autotrail.php?display=technical

3245Kg is indeed the lowest "Unladen Mass" chassis of the 660 series. There are in fact three. I think this is what gets quoted on the V5, but cannot be sure.


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Talking in pounds shillings and pence they have sold him a vehicle which to remain within the legal limit can carry a further 24 stone two average adults.So before he thinks about ripping seats out he needs to decide if the driver is to travel or the passenger.


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## trigrem (May 1, 2005)

If 3245kg is the stated unladen mass then it would be useful to know what Autotrail include in Unladen Mass. Swift for instance include 75 Kg for driver 75 kg for each designated passenger, 90% fuel, 90% LPG ie 2x 7kg = 25kg 90% Freshwater.
Other manufacturers only include 75kg for driver full tank fuel.
So there can be quite a difference in allowable payload quoted, around 100kg, what could apppears too low could in fact be o/k.
It may help, the customer may have more payload than he thinks.
It is a waste of time asking Brownhills, they will not understand the question, along with many other motorhome suppliers.
Many continental manufacturers include gas cylinders and full water tanks in there Unladen Mass figures.
The standard Swift are working too is EC Directive 92/21/EEC which I think is somehow mixed up with Whole Vehicle Type Approval.
Other Motorhome manufacturers who quote only the 75 Kg for driver plus fuel are working to BSEN 1646-2.


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## legend654 (Mar 28, 2006)

I think you will find that the difference is 255KG or more like 40 stone. The lowest weight that Autotrail do is over 2800KG. As the previous poster said, taking out some of the dead weight (extra beds, wheel etc.) would actually help your friend to drive legally. By the way I was surprised by the fact that ones capability to drive over 3500kg is automatically revoked at 70. Supposedly the DVLA write to you and you have to re-apply with a medical certificate.


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## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Sorry yes forgot to multiply but without getting personal his wife would not be far of 50% of the allowed weight.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Last October at the NEC I ordered from Lowtham leisure world a Cathargo MH on an upgraded chassis 5200 kg. Before taking a deposit and placing the MH on order I had to read and sign a form stating that I had a suitable licence to drive that weight. So there are some decent dealers out there, perhaps not Brownhill though. 

Wobby


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