# Bias in Schools



## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Am I so far behind the times that I am nearly a dinosaur. Just how many schools have all female staff. Does this affect chidrens understanding of the roles of Mothers and Fathers. Will they grow up with no respect for men and a biased understanding of Women.Would this be a reason if attacks are more frequent upon the fairer sex.Should more schools be segregated as a boys only etc. Is there a reason for this lack of male teachers.


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## MEES (Apr 20, 2006)

Teaching these days is damn hard work for the money and hours. Perhaps this puts the men off?
When I went to teacher training college ( a very long time ago )) girl had to have two A LEVELS AND BOYS 5 O levels !!
There were some very weak male teachers in those days - most of whom went on to become Primary heads.
I never experienced any thing but respect as a teacher think things may be different now but respect is in short supply for all authority figures regardless of gender balance.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Both the first and middle schools my grandsons attend have male teachers. The deputy head teacher of the first school is male. The children seem pretty well balanced about it.
Does it matter in this day and age when parents in a marriage can both be the same sex?


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Up until the 1970s male teachers were paid more than female one. Can you believe it?

Since equal pay males have gradually made up less and less of the teaching workforce. Whether equal pay was the reason or whether it is pure coincidence no one will ever know. :smile2:

Dick


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I wonder to what extent the great paedo scare frightened men away from teaching, if any?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The school that I taught in (Independent admittedly) started off as an all boys school in a city where there were three all girls schools (also independent), one other all boys independent school as well as the mixed State provision. 

In the early 1970's as a result of Government changes, many schools that had previously been independent, were taken into the State sector, we stayed independent for various reasons. The all boys school went in to the State sector.

Two years later the sixth form was stripped off ALL the State schools to populate the newly established Sixth Form College. An edict went out to all the schools to nominate their BEST MALE teachers for the new college. Those left behind were obviously demoralised and drifted away from teaching being predominently replaced by females who were willing to just teach 11 - 16.

That pattern has continued in the City.

My school went mixed (much to the chagrin of the girls schools 2 of which closed over the next few years) - that was the best thing they ever did IMO, although it took a few years for the girls to become accepted as "people" by the previously very chauvinistic boys who dd not know how to relate to females. The girls rapidly showed who was quicker at maturing bu knocking the socks off the boys in exams.

At the same tome the school started to recruit excellent female teachers - they brought a new breath of fresh air into the school, but were primarily found in some disciplines; languages, English, biology (my subject), but NOT in maths, phusics or chemistry.....

That pattern continues to the present time, the female teachers are generally excellent, the male teachers tend to stay longer as they do not have the "career breaks".

But teaching as a profession is struggling to attract male entrants and even more male teachers who stay in it - many simply give up after a few years as the workload is heavy and not always conducive to family life. Female teachers seem better able to cope with such pressure, or perhaps have different career aspirations or go where their husband is......

It seems to be rare for male teachers to follow their wife as they move around the country/world, the opposite is common. 

Not saying anything specific but maybe, just maybe "male dominance" is still very prevalent in the home.....? 

Sadly, the best teachers of both genders, tend to get invited to become Deputy or Head Teachers - and immediately lose their contact with the children that MADE them outstanding...... Good teachers are NOT necessarily good Heads, or vice versa.....

Dave


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## MEES (Apr 20, 2006)

Not sure if it's the gender of teachers is a cause of the general lack of respect.
Think discipline in the home is more likely.
I never experienced lack of respect as a teacher. On the very rare occasion something happened it was dealt with firmly and the young person " encouraged" so they desisted.
I did for a time work in a " last chance" establishment the cause of those pupils issues was usually appalling family circumstances.
When I trained as a teacher girls needed 2 A levels and boys 5 O levels. There were some very weak male teachers most of whom went on to be Primary heads.
Better a strong woman than a weak many in my experience.
Teaching today is VERY hard work and better money can be earned in other occupations.
Margaret


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I have three

Two daughters one daughter in law 

One daughter a head teacher of a special school 

It seems the strain is a feature of the job 

Shame as these girls are excellent, care deeply for their pupils , work hard 

But are shattered every weekend 

I cook every Friday for them and their kids so they don't need too

They are tired when they arrive , tired and a bit down 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I think women stay in the profession because the school holidays fit in with family life. Men get attracted away by more lucrative, less stressful jobs.


My brother went, straight from teacher training college, to a school where, as he describes it "the girls were on the game and the boys were organising it". In those days these schools attracted an allowance on top of a teacher's salary to encourage the teachers to stay. It worked for him and his colleagues because even a promotion would not give him more money elsewhere. Between them he and his colleagues turned that school around. They knew the family circumstances of all the pupils and so could deal accordingly with problems as they arose.
One that comes to mind was a pupil telling my brother that the pupil's elder brother would be waiting outside the school gates with a knife to sort him out. My brother's reply was "tell him Mr Leaney says hello". He heard no more about the matter.


As has been said above, the good teachers were recruited as headmasters and deputy heads. He was being fast tracked that way and decided to take up Bobby Charlton's offer of a job in his American Soccer Camps.


I worked in Local Government in the seventies in the Teachers Staffing department. A graduate came for interview. Her degree was in Russian. She smelled awful, was scruffy and sullen when I took her in to the interview room. I asked after the interview how it went, expecting to be told what a farce it was. Instead I was told that she had got the job. On expressing my surprise the boss said "well, she was upright and breathing".


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I've been out of the employment game for a long time, but I did have 40 years working experience. I don't think it's only teachers that have a hard time. I worked in the banking sector, mostly. I never ever in my working career had nothing on my desk to do. Some arrived for work at 6 or 6.30am. Lunch hours were a gobble n go. Leave at 7pm and there were still vehicles in the parking garage. Admittedly some were hanging around for a turn on the manager's couch. I too remember being shattered by Friday evening, or Saturday lunchtime (when I was working a 6 day week). In the later years the weekends were simply for recovering sufficient strength to stagger into the office again on a Monday morning.

This may be biased, but the teachers I have met spend an inordinate amount of time bemoaning their lot. Just saying. I can't say whether it's justified or not.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

As a manager in social services 
I was also stressed at the end of a working day

Certainly not only teachers are stressed 
But these are mine

And I don't think teachers who are trying hard to give pupils their all

Shoud return on a Friday exhausted and dispirited 
Sandra


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

But, it is a uniquely superb job.....

I LOVED working with youngsters kindling their enthusiasm in my subject (biology) and seeing them turn from ugly ducklings into elegant swans gliding through the complexities of life.....

I also loved seeing how the supposedly least able could turn a corner when the route was found to help them and then go on and on... I always chose to teach the least able GCSE sets - much to the surprise of colleagues who preferred the highest achieving - for me to see those students WANT to study biology to A Level or go on to become medics was a real joy and I felt proud to have provided a stepping stone for them on their journey.....

Oh yes and I love teaching (still do when I can), but became increasingly disillusioned with the way the subject was being dumbed down by successive Governments who "_thought they knew best and that teachers could not be trusted_".... in such a way that A level students do not study the brain (except as a hormone producing structure) and GCSE students can go through without any knowledge of the heart......... *BUT* they *ALL* know why shampoo adverts cannot be trusted or how to convert a table of data into a graph...... and there are many other examples.....

Teaching is one of the most rewarding jobs you can have, it can also be one of the most frustrating.... but so can any profession..... just don't do it for the money - it is *NOT *a well paid job at any stage *EXCEPT* for the Senior Management and Head teachers of large schools (1500 plus students)......

Dave


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Dave your post says it all. As the saying goes, do something you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life.

Maybe the sentiment I've been hearing is not physical tiredness from a huge workload. But rather mental exhaustion from having to perform functions that are not a good fit for the person involved; the frustration of having to allocate too much time to performing tasks that are not what the teacher wants to do or feels he/she should be doing; and not being able to accommodate the tasks the teacher feels are imperative, and trying to fit it all in. A changed job description that the incumbent is not understanding or trained for. Stuck in the past (aren't we all to a larger or smaller degree)?

As in previous posts I've discussed with Dave the importance of having a job which is the 'right fit' for each person's individual and unique characteristics - leadership vs followship, routine vs adventure; passive vs influencing.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Totally agree with that; when I trained (yes I did honestly) we were encouraged to see how we could motivate the youngsters by using their imagination and interests, even if it went off syllabus a tad (that's when they were called a syllabus rather than a specification), so with youngsters we would do a bit of "pond dipping" - taking out a bucket full of mixed mud and water and putting it in shallow white enamel bowls so the youngsters could use hand lenses to spot and then identify very small organisms like flatworms (Planaria) or midge larvae or dragonfly larvae or any of the other myriad little beasties they could find... that lead them into classification of organisms (on the syllabus) and gave a natural introduction to an otherwise "dry subject"....

sadly not allowed now 'cos of 'Elf and Safety - the youngsters might pick up some disease 'cos it has not all been sterilised first...... sadly youngsters don't go tiddler fishing with worms anymore (unless there is an app for that?) so the Powers Wot Be have decided it is NOT SAFE for young developing people to go anywhere near water... (maybe that's why the Government won't let then have holidays outside the prescribed times - but not a problem if they have broken their leg and spend six weeks at home).......

Such considerations of SAFE PRACTICE now have to be taken into account in a written form BEFORE any practical activity and approved by the HoD, the Head and his grandparents (or so it seemed).

Taking youngsters out of school is now a nightmare - it requires at least 3 months planning and enough paper to cover the Albert Hall - which we used to take kids to see on a day trip to London from Exeter - 0730 train to London (can't do that now), then walk across Hyde Park, past Diana Memorial and Peter Pan statue to Albert Hall, down to Science and Natural History museums then walk across Green Park to Whitehall, see the Guards, walk past Buck House, across Westminster Bridge to London Eye, then back across to Trafalgar Square (say hello to the lions) and then back to train at Paddington, arriving back at Exeter about 2230 all for about £20...... with 7 or 8 members of staff of course for 70 youngsters....

Costing it out now would make that 10x as expensive for each child and is prohibitive.......

Oh what a shame.....

Have a look at the attachment if you can..... little beasties galore....

Dave


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Back to what I said some weeks ago. Kids need to be challenged to test their mettle. Self esteem grows. Confidence and performance are increased. No need to go around doing ridiculous things like stealing cars, drinking to gross excess, bullying old folk, etc etc. to feel 'good' about themselves. 

Have you ever been in France or Switzerland before end of their school year, hordes of kids on (long) school expeditions and having a ball? (Although most of 'em not cleaning up behind themselves!)


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

My brother was trained the old fashioned way too. He is furious that the school his son attends (he was late to fatherhood) has abandoned playtime (recess in America) in favour of more box ticking activities to gain grades for the school. The social side of school is just as important as the academic side. You can learn facts at any age.


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