# Options on filling fresh water tank



## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi Franki owners
Our Franki has a utility compartment with the inlets for lec'y and water etc' As the water inlet is through a hose reel what are the options to fill up if no tap available within reach of the hose other than to use a container and pour directly into the tank inside the van. If this is the only option will it matter if we have a little spillage inside the tank compartment :?


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

You don't want any water spillage anywhere inside a locker or around the water tank as it will cause problems.
We use a watering can more often than a hose. If you can't get the watering can directly to the inlet, could you not use a pipe as an extension.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Usually there are 4 ways on recent Frankias.

1 Hose reel
2 Grey Hose clipped inside boiler room or similar
3 Through filler cap on side of van
4 remove floor trap, unscrew cap and fill there.

Trev


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

In the event we can't use a hosepipe to refill the tank, then it's either watering can or Aquaroll plus 12v submersible pump in the Aquaroll.


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

deefordog said:


> In the event we can't use a hosepipe to refill the tank, then it's either watering can or Aquaroll plus 12v submersible pump in the Aquaroll.


Same as us, but we use a 25 ltr plastic container and lightweight trolley instead of an
Aquaroll. Just drop in the pump and away you go 8)

Steve


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Just bought a collapsible watering can to save space.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Spacerunner said:


> Just bought a collapsible watering can to save space.


Where from? What's it like?

I lost mine in France (_my own stupid fault_ :roll: ) and since then I've never found one as good.

Yours might be just what I've been looking for.

cheers

Dave


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

On line from Garden Divas.



Garden Divas


====================
Colapz 2 in 1 Bucket & Watering Can -

About £20

Various colours. Mines in a fetching green. Looks really strong. When collapsed accessories clip to store


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks John.

Is it this one? http://www.gardendivas.co.uk/product.php?product=644

Looks good, but it has gone up in price a bit!

Dave


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Thank's for the reply's so far  

Previously we have used a pump with aqua roll or watering can which was easily the best option as all our previous m'homes had fillers on the outside of the van. Unfortunately our Franki has no such filler so was just wandering if there was another way to fill tank other than filling through the top of the tank inside the m'home.

Grath, yes extension pipe is an option

Teemyob (Trev) 1 & 4 can do, 3 does not exist. 4 Do you mean attach a further filler hose inside the utility compartment? Our existing hose is a permanent fix inside the utility compartment so not sure if i could attach a further hose in here.

Cheers one and all


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

I know nothing about Frankias, but if this is a new van which you plan to keep for some considerable time, might it be worth getting an external filling point installed?

It can't be rocket science to fit a Fiamma type filler and a bit of bendy hose to a spigot on the tank. Any competent fitter could do that fairly easily I would think - although it might cost a few quid if it was time consuming and fiddly.

Probably worth it in the long run though, if only for the convenience.

Dave


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## subfiver (Oct 15, 2011)

If the hose on the reel is not compressed, ie water will flow thro' it, than you can attach the traditional 12v submersible pump to it and refill from a container of some sort


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

The problem with using a pump, to pump from a container to the water tank, is that it is pretty slow.
If you were on an aire and a queue forming, it could be a little embarrassing to say the least. 
I have seen owners with such a system, resort to carrying bottles.


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## subfiver (Oct 15, 2011)

...but if you use a container you don't have to move the van to the tap !


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

There's a hole in my bucket dear Liza dear Liza :lol: 

Which is why I mostly use a watering can  
I must say, If I had a van hich required a pump to fill the tank. it WOULD be the first thing I removed.

edit

actually, I usually walk down to the tap with my watering can and a 10 litre container. Then I empty the water from the watering can into the tank, then empty the container into the watering can and again into the tank. But at my own leisure, without been rushed by vans in the queue. I do it daily and our water usage seems to be about 30 litres per day. (average)


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

> subfiver said:- ...but if you use a container you don't have to move the van to the tap !


Fairly obvious isn't it Sub. Our philosophy completely.

Have to say though, I don't understand why (if they have the option) some folk carry a huge water container, plus a trolley 'cos it's heavy, plus a submersible pump, and all the faffing that goes with it. If you use a watering can, one piddle and one shower each per day is plenty to keep the tank topped up! :roll:

On a site with toilets of course, and you do have to remember to take the watering can with you when you go for said shower and piddle. :roll:

I just found this and bought one >> these << to replace the one I lost in France.

Very pleased I joined this thread as I've been looking to replace it for two years at least, and wouldn't have found it had I not been looking for the one Spacey mentioned. It's very convenient with the flexi spout, and saves dribbling most of the water down the side of the van.

And it's not too heavy for the Memsahib. I do like to keep the minions happy! :lol:

Dave


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

You seem to have missed the info that Trev (teemyob) gave much earlier on, inside the access to the water / space heating, (Truma) locker you will find clipped to the wall a grey pipe (about 40mm dia.) with a push on cap on it, unclip it and you will find it has a flexible connection on it, this is the same as the external filler fitted to most other vans but without the external connection and locking cap, take the cap off and fill with whatever receptacle you choose, be it bucket or watering can so many seem to favour.


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## worzel (Apr 12, 2007)

Buy a 10 litre water container with a tap fitted in the side at the bottom. Open the floor hatch in the van and stand the water container on the floor and use the tap straight into the tank . No spillage. A friend of mine does this with his Frankia when not near a tap.


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

quote "You seem to have missed the info that Trev (teemyob) gave much earlier on, inside the access to the water / space heating, (Truma) locker you will find clipped to the wall a grey pipe (about 40mm dia.) with a push on cap on it, unclip it and you will find it has a flexible connection on it, this is the same as the external filler fitted to most other vans but without the external connection and locking cap, take the cap off and fill with whatever receptacle you choose, be it bucket or watering can so many seem to favour."

Hi eurajohn
I liked the idea but I have had a good look around the Truma locker & unfortunately there is no grey pipe with cap, just blue and red which i presume are hot & cold plus a couple of grey waste pipes.

Any other ideas would be welcome
Cheers
Colin


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Colin, you mention "a couple of grey waste pipes", are you sure they are both waste pipes?
The filler I and teemyob refer to is the same plastic grey pipe that is used for drain, does either have a cap on them? If it is there and I'm sure it is as it is part of the standard fitment on Frankia vans, normally vertical near the door.


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## HarleyDave (Jul 1, 2007)

Two grey pipes in the same locker - one for fresh and one for waste - sounds like a problem waiting to happen...

Cheers

Dave

PS I use a watering can too (when required) but have extended the spout with a bit of flexi lay-flat pipe as this makes it easier to start the pour with a full can.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

This may sound too obvious but what does the handbook say about methods of filling the tank.... or gain membership to a Frankia Owners Club to learn some of the alternative methods of filling the tank.
As stated by several others, I favour the watering can method whenever possible. The can pours neatly, its easy to carry to the most awkward tap, you need not move your van, the hose method leaves stagnant remnants after use to flavour your tank, hoses are awkward to handle and require several different connections, finally, humping the Aquaroll across a bumpy field, storing it and connecting a pump is a no, no, for me.
I do hope that you are able to locate a more suitable entry point for filling the tank, for if as you imply that you use a hose or nothing, for most Aires, wild-camping and many other situations, it is not a very practical solution.
As a last resort you could adapt a submersible pump to fit the end of your hose....... then fill a bucket.....

Alan


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## alphadee (May 10, 2009)

This is what the filler pipe looks like...ours was in the boiler locker, accessed from outside the van.


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

When I am pitched up with my Frankia and don't want to drive to a tap to full up using the cassette hose I use a 25 litre water jack ( halfords approx £14)

I then lift this into the camper open the floor cover and open the blue tank lid and with the water jack on its side edge I open its tap and leave the water to empty into the tank it is quicker if the water jack has an air vent on other side to let the air in


I have never used teemyob's option 2. I.e. The grey flex filler hose just inside the boiler cupboard external door


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

When I am pitched up with my Frankia and don't want to drive to a tap to full up using the cassette hose I use a 25 litre water jack ( halfords approx £14)

I then lift this into the camper open the floor cover and open the blue tank lid and with the water jack on its side edge I open its tap and leave the water to empty into the tank it is quicker if the water jack has an air vent on other side to let the air in


I have never used teemyob's option 2. I.e. The grey flex filler hose just inside the boiler cupboard external door


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## alphadee (May 10, 2009)

We always used option 2, ie the grey pipe, if not using the hosereel.
We released it from its clips to bring the end outside the locker.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

Limited typing tonight on phonr, , I think most of the question s re my reply have been answered,.

10 litre watering can was so easy with the hose in boiler option


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Good morning all

I am surprised that this thread has gone above about 4 post :lol: 

Thanks for your time and ideas, great help as usual.

Eurajohn, the wastes in the locker are all traceable to sinks etc' and are rigid black plastic.

Trek, interesting will look into that as a secondary solution.

Alphadee, thanks for the pic' I will check again but pretty sure i have no pipes like that at all. My Franki is of the 2006 variety and has made me wonder If the said pipe was a later inovation after complaints from customers about this little problem.

Trev Cheers

If I can find a suitable place to cut the cold inlet pipe that connects to the centre of the hose real I will fit T and flexi pipe with a cap attached pretty much as you and Trev have in the locker.


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## alphadee (May 10, 2009)

Whiskyman,

Our Frankia was a 2005 model, so I don't think its age related thing.
The photo was from the Frankia website as I don't have a photo of our boiler locker. It's the same sort of pipe in the same clips..ours was grey rather than black.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

whiskyman, my info came from my 2005 T700 and also from looking at many others when looking to upgrade.

If you can have a look at the fresh water tank and see what connections there are, you'll probably find a convoluted flexy around the 40/50 mm size near, or at the top of the tank, if there it will confirm the existence of the filler we suggest.

The photo from alphadee shows a van with Alde wet heating and looks to be in the garage area, perhaps yours is situated there.


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## acctutor (Oct 3, 2009)

*Water filling*

Hi,

On our new 740 we specified an external water, which like many we (sorry I) fill with a watering can.

The pipe that several have mentioned is the tank vent pipe, and on our 740 can be found in the last locker on the right-hand side (looking at the front of the van.

Hope this helps

Bill & Patsy


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

As a matter of more general discussion around this, I'm rather unclear as to why some manufacturers have moved away from the "traditional" fresh water filler point located on an outside wall of the Motorhome.......the type with the lockable cover/plug, like this sort of thing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZADI-WATE...ervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item1e92d9161a

On all the three motorhomes we've had, this has been the arrangement, and to my mind it's absolutely ideal.

You can shove the end of any sized hosepipe in to fill up, or the mouth of a watering can, or if you use a 90 degree domestic rainwater pipe bend (which push-fits nice and tight into the recess) as a funnel, you can tip water from any other sort of bucket/container straight into the pipe.

I don't understand what was bad about this sort of arrangement that thus made then think that having to lug water containers into the vehicle to fill through the floor, etc etc, was a better design?


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

What I don't understand is what the watering can brigade do on Aires that want 1euro for 80 litres of water? 8? watering cans!!, or do you all go together and chip in.

In my experience the newer van don't have the same filling options as older ones, that's certainly my impression on the Niesmann and Bischoff range. Just for the discussion my personal preference is Aguaroll and pump as we have the whale fitting built into the service locker, if needs be I can tow water from a tap a good distance away and pump onboard. Never park at the tap and fill with hose, it's seems such a faff to me, park up get water and tea is on the table when I am done.

Takes all sorts.

Martin


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Nomad *- Couldn't agree more!!

*Vanflair *- Can only speak for us of course, but we are never so short of water when using aires that we need to buy any . . . well, never have been yet. We use sites regularly enough to keep the tank topped up, and rarely spend more than 3 or 4 (at most) consecutive days on aires alone.

With our small van storing an Aquaroll would be a major inconvenience, even if I could put up with the faff of getting the pump out etc.. _(I practice extreme idleness on holiday! :wink: )_

I guess it's all about what works for the individual. Stating our own preferences might make others aware of different possibilities, so the discussion is worthwhile.

Dave


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi eurajohn
I have checked all the lockers and cannot find anything remotely like the pic' or a pipe terminating in a removable cap. On the top right of the fresh water tank are two grey flexi' pipes, these disappear into the double floor, I will investigate where to tomorrow. The odd thing about the grey flexi waste pipes in the boiler locker is that they connect onto the black plastic waste pipes coming from the sinks. Do you think one of these could be an overflow from the fresh tank?

Cheers
Colin


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

Regarding paying for water  I think I can count on one hand, or most certainly two hand full of fingers, the amount of times I have paid for water in well over ten years.
By the way, in Germany, quite a few stelplatz sell water at 10 cents for 10 litres.
Then regarding Aqua roll. Even though I have a large garage, I wouldn't have room for the bulky Aquaroll, the same would go for a wastemaster thing, and they would certainly not travel in the toilet or shower compartment.
I usually use the watering can and top up every day, assuming not on a pay for water aire, and I daily, empty the waste with a bucket. It gives me something to do :lol: 
OK, sometimes I will use the hose, probably if I have been idle and not topped up for a few days. I also, when not knowing where I will be stopping, carry extra water. Enough for a total of 5 days showers etc  
By the way, we always travel, with a full water tank, then we are very flexible where we are stopping.

I am not saying my way is right, but it works for me (us)


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

We have a 125 litre fresh water tank, and find that's enough for the two of us for about 5 or 6 days usually before needing to refill: that's washing up, both showering daily, and toilet flushing. (We drink/cook with bottled water)


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

whiskyman said:


> Hi eurajohn
> I have checked all the lockers and cannot find anything remotely like the pic' or a pipe terminating in a removable cap. On the top right of the fresh water tank are two grey flexi' pipes, these disappear into the double floor, I will investigate where to tomorrow. The odd thing about the grey flexi waste pipes in the boiler locker is that they connect onto the black plastic waste pipes coming from the sinks. Do you think one of these could be an overflow from the fresh tank?
> 
> Cheers
> Colin


Hi Colin, what size are the pipes in the boiler locker? if sink waste there would normally only be one, even if a double sink there is normally a tee fitting close to the sinks and a single pipe down to waste tank. Waste pipes on Frankia vans are normally solid (not flexy) and around 20mm diameter.
Reference the suggestion that the filler we refer to is actually a breather, my handbook (which went with the van) referred to it as a filler for the fresh tank, had I not seen the reference I would have been wondering, like you how to fill without the use of the fitted hose reel. 
There was a flexy breather on the fresh tank which was well out of sight and fitted with a large upward loop within the wardrobe before exiting through the floor.
If using the large inspection cap to fill the tank be sure to tighten it down fully, otherwise when using the hose to fill the tank it is likely to leak and make a mess, I know from experience.


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi John
Sink wastes in boiler locker are as you describe. I have lots of paperwork with the van (mostly in German) but also a photo copied translation of a generic manual for my year of Frankia. The pic' posted is in there and the general instructions for filling the water tank through my non existing pipe. I have come to the conclusion that due to my van having a slide out the pipe could not be fitted or a previous owner had it removed for a reason that evades me. My supplying dealer is going to let me have the previous owners details, hopefully he will shed a little light on this conundrum. If not I will fit a T and filler cap onto the existing hose.

I will post on here again when I have spoken to him.

THANK-YOU for persevering with this and all your suggestions.

Cheers
Colin


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Colin, you're welcome.
The only problem with teeing into the hose feed is that it is only around 13mm bore so pure gravity feed will take absolutely forever. Any way best of luck with the previous owner and I hope you do find a solution.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

Acording to the handbook, the fitting of a water filler, depends on the floorpan. http://www.frankia.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Service/Frankia_techn_datas_EN.pdf

Alan


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi all, long time since last post on this so I thought I would let you know how the flow is going.
Well I drained due to the low temp' we have been having, but have just took advantage of the rise to 4* in day time temp. I rejected my idea for cutting into the cold water fill hose due to Eurajohn's advice about gravity fill etc. As the majority of posters and also ref' in the manual refer to filling through the overflow pipe I thought now would be a good time to find mine, so connected hose and started to fill tank, very quick as it happens 120 litres direct from outside tap on house mains pressure.
Pop back into MH fit lid on water tank (firmly) and wait for a waterfall coming out somewhere below the van. You can feel and hear that the water has stopped coming in through said hose, but there ios no water to be seen anywhere. So conclusion is that I have a leak free sealed inlet and fill hose system but unfortunately definitely no overflow :? 

The MH (name will come later) Is back to the dealers on the 28th for some alarm work and I have let him know about this conundrum and he will be taking a look to see what can be done.
I think the only sensible solution is to retro fit a standard tank filler into the body with the appropriate pipe directly into the tank, this would also act as an overflow if the hose was ever inadvertently left running. I will let you know the dealers thoughts on this later.

Cheers
Colin


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## HarryTheHymer (May 1, 2005)

Thanks for your latest feedback.

It seems very strange to me that you effectively have a sealed fresh water tank as suggested by your recent fill operation. 

Prior to filling you had a fresh water tank full of air. Where does this air go when you replace it with a tank full of water. The air must go somewhere. 

I can understand that when the tank is full, the mains water supply hose will stop transferring any more water because there is nowhere for it to go. In other words, if you connect a hose to the mains and close off the end of the hose, the water in the hose will stop flowing. 

What I don't understand is where the air in the tank goes. The air will get compressed to a certain extent but then you would end up with a tank which is partially full of water, the rest being compressed air.

I note that when you performed the fill experiment, you removed the screw cap on top of the tank and filled most of the tank with water. You then replaced the screw cap and continued to fill until the mains water stopped flowing. Perhaps this is the only way to overcome having a large volume of trapped air in the tank. 

Obviously, Frankia, in their wisdom thought this the best way to fill the tank from the mains water supply.

It would be interesting to know, if you filled with the tank screw cap in place, how much of the tank is filled. Maybe, there is an air pressure release valve on top of the tank. However, if it will release air it would also probably release excess water as well. 

My German van doesn't appear to have a vent/overflow pipe but then it has a normal water fill inlet. Any air in the water tank is vented by the fill pipe.


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## cavs (Mar 15, 2009)

whiskyman said:


> So conclusion is that I have a leak free sealed inlet and fill hose system but unfortunately definitely no overflow :?


Hi Colin,

I have a 2008 i680 on which the filling system is almost exactly like Trev described earlier.

I find it very hard to believe that your filling and fresh water system is sealed because a) I would expect the mains pressure to overcome some of the pipe fittings, b) the water pump would start to create a vacuum in the system so no water would reach your taps and c) the system would not cope with changes in atmospheric pressure.

On mine the overflow comes out near the rear offside wheel, but it takes a considerable time after the tank is apparently full, if you're judging that by looking at the level in the tank through the lid.

I almost always fill mine through the hose cassette in the services locker without removing the internal tank lid. It goes quiet some time before the tank is full because the tank inlet pipe is about ¾ of the way up the side of the tank so the splashing noise stops when the inlet is covered.

Hope this helps. (I did try previously to upload some photos of the various pipes on my van, but I couldn't get the site to accept them. If you think they might help, let me know and I'll email them to you.)

Stephen


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I have to imagine that the air vents through the inlet if it is not sealed, mine does.
I have a very accurate way of knowing when the tank is full; it floods out of the inlet. This for me, is enough information.
When I am travelling I am inclined to half fill the tank, using the water level gauge which is also accurate to within about 30 litres (really).

Alan


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi HtH
Interesting point about the air, I filled to 95% full with the approx' 100 mm diameter cap off then fitted very tightly for the remainder as I was mindful of avoiding a large spillage between the floors. Perhaps there is a breather valve or some such gubbins hidden away, if there is it may let air out but definitely no water from anywhere.
I am going to fire off a e'mail to Frankia to see If they can be of any help.
Will post again when I have further info.


Cheers Colin


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Hi Colin,

If you are emailing Frankia send to,

[email protected] or direct to,
[email protected]

He is the head of the service department,you should get a reply within a day or twr if you fancy a trip to the factory,they have their own stellplatz.

Trevor.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

They are unlikely to see you without an appointment, which may be some months away and when I was there a few years back they only took cash and wouldn't do anything under warranty because Spinney has been importing Frankia's without warranty.

And to be honest the work they did do was very poor indeed. I will provide a link to the post I made at the time for enlightenment if I can find it.

Edit: Here's my post http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-88464-days0-orderasc-0.html

I would fix it myself or have it done by someone local rather than go there, though it's a nice trip. I ended up doing it myself as the shower drain still didn't work and they had left the plug out of the grey waste tank which I didn't discover till I started flooding a stellplatz whilde doing some washing. The guy in the van next door came to tell me, luckily he was nice about it. Many people would have been annoyed. I paid €300 to have they grey tank drained and a bead of silicone round a couple of windows, which I had already done, so possibly they didn't even do that.


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Things have possibly changed since then as I have nothing but praise for the work they did for me in 2012 and 2013,there is a new workshop manager who has a much friendlier approach than the previous one.True you need to book ahead,I had asked for a price for some decals as the previous owner had removed most of them and they replaced them FOC. Apparently the service manager told the workshop to replace them all as it was not a Frankia without the decals,probably saved 1000€.And yes it is cash only for work done.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It was 2010 bigtree. Possibly your van had warranty, still replacing the decals was a nice touch.

As I said nice people, and apparently keen to please. I just didn't actually think they were very good at the job. They seemed to think that they had fixed it, though they left the plug out and later I discovered that the problem was actually that the plastic fitting beneath one of the shower drains was cracked. 

Though they did also tell me it had all been dried out with a dehumidifier and that the shower tray had been removed to gain access underneath. As I said the shower tray quite obviously hadn't been removed and anyone who thinks that a dehumidifier can dry a sodden underfloor area in an afternoon doesn't know what they are talking about, or is hoping that the customer doesn't. 

Still perhaps it was all confused in the translation. As I don't speak German they were good enough to find an English speaker to deal with me. He put the words together very well but perhaps he just didn't actually know what they meant. It's either that or he was simply telling me lies in a very nice way.

Still, it's pretty much par for the course in the MH industry. Those who care and want to give good service are few and far between so the Frankia service centre are no worse than most of the dealers I have bought from.

Not knocking the brand. The vans are better than most, Alan.


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Alexander the new workshop manager can speak good english,had another chat to him at the Dusseldorf show last September.He showed me the new and awesome Lounge edition 840 but unfortunately it doesn't have a garage for me bike.


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## whiskyman (Jul 18, 2012)

After Cavs last post I thought I had better repeat the fill / overflow experiment as I had not left the tap running very long after the tank appeared full last time.
I now know where the overflow pipe is so a special thank-you to Cavs for re-posting his advice. :wink: 
My overflow is also hidden away under the off side wheel arch and took an age to show itself after I thought the tank was full.

Bigtree, thanks for the contact at Frankia, I will ask them if they have a fill kit that could be fitted to my model.

Will be seeing the supplying dealer on the 28th and hoping he offers a solution also.

Cheers
Colin


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