# Looney in a Lunar!



## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Sorry I could not post this in "Was that you?" as I would not like to engage in any sort of communication with the person concerned in this post again :evil: !
On Friday we were travelling to the Wharfedale Caravan Club site near Grassington in Yorkshire and we had left the main A road and joined the B road which runs through a number of small villages and is a single lane carriage way.
The weather was very sunny and bright and on the face of it a nice Autumn day but there had been a great deal of rain over the previous days and the road was slippery with leaves and severely flooded in parts.
The road also has several sharp bends.
We were overtaken by a Lunar who was going at quite some speed and cracked on as soon as he had overtaken us.
Our thoughts were what a tw*t and we expected to see him in a ditch around the next bend !
We were going at 40 to 45 mph ( we know the road very well ) .
When we arrived at Wharfedale low and behold who should be in the queue in front of me to pay but Mr Lunar!
I politely said to him (smiling as I spoke!) " Well you did not get here much quicker than me did you?".
Well the cheeky s*d replied "Oh were you that slow coach I passed!" followed by "I was doing 60mph as that is the speed limit"He was very rude with his comments.. Then he was waving when we passed his van.......very grown up!
His van may qualify for a 60 mph limit on a single carriage way,our does not and I prefer to drive to the road conditions rather than limits.
So if you are reading this Mr Lunar I suggest the next time you visit the Yorkshire Dales that you wear more than a vest and treat other road users with more respect!
You were driving in a manner not suitable for the type of road !

Val


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## tomnjune (May 1, 2005)

hi val 
probably thought you was going to nick is pitch,


tomnjune


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I think I would have treated him with the silent contempt that he deserved :wink:


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## boringfrog (Sep 22, 2006)

*Speed*

"60 Mph is the limit, not the target".

(speed awareness course).

Not me, honest.... :wink:


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## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

I checked outside - and yes the van is still there so it wasn't me. I respect your right to have a rant about something, but the silent contempt may be ultimately more effective.


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

tomnjune said:


> hi val
> probably thought you was going to nick is pitch,
> 
> tomnjune


Well he did dash off to a pitch so maybe he had his heart set on that one and he thought I may get it :lol:

My husband said I should have just ignored him but I just thought I would gently let him know that there is no need to drive in that fashion,just enjoy the drive!

Maybe it was a race 8O !

Val


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

MaxandPaddy said:


> My husband said I should have just ignored him . . . Val


Ignoring only has any effect if the person you are ignoring realises he is being ignored . . . and the reason why?

Discuss! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

Was this the fella? 8O


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

It could also be that the OP was driving too slowly for the owner of the Lunar, who may well have been a very experienced driver. Why do some people always believe that the speed they are driving at is the absolute safe maximum that can be achieved on that road?

This is simply saying: "I'm a perfect driver and anyone in the world who goes faster than me is an idiot."

40-45 mph on any country road can be painfully slow, especially when the average speedo is up to 10% fast and the OP's speed may have been under 40 mph at times.

Yes, the road had bends, but presumably it also had nice straight bits where the Lunar driver was able to overtake, and there was no mention that the overtaking manoeuvre itself was in any way dangerous.

So to sum up, what we have here is a man driving at speeds of what may have only been 50-55 mph, which compared to the OP's speed of 40-45 mph could easily be seen to be as 'cracking on'.

I write this as someone who likes to 'crack on' occasionally and can be frustrated by others who drive too slowly for my liking. Good driving is driving up to the speed limit if it can be done safely. As we've already been told, it was a nice dry day and the only drawbacks were some leaves on the road and some 'flooding'. What's flooding, a few puddles here and there? And even if it was worse than that, you can see deeper puddles well in advance on a clear day.

Ps I don't drive a Lunar so it wasn't me!


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Was this the fella? 8O


No, I really would not have ignored him  !

Dave, If I had ignored the Looney in the Lunar then I would not be miffed now at the fact that he had given me a load of lip and he thought he was the smartest thing in the Caravan Club!
But on the other hand if I had ignored him I would have been miffed that I had ignored him.........................if you get my drift :lol: !

Val


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

45 is a safe speed for that road in a motorhome. Anything above is not. One motorhome overtaking another on that road is just plain dangerous.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I think we all reserve the right to drive at the speed which is comfortable to us.
Not at the speed that some one behind us wishes us to drive.

Anyone who wants to drive faster than me is welcome to overtake any time they think fit. 

Just don't expect me to help pick up the bits......after all I might be in a hurry at my own speed.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Spacerunner said:


> I think we all reserve the right to drive at the speed which is comfortable to us.
> Not at the speed that some one behind us wishes us to drive.


Absolutely right and I don't think that anyone would argue that. No one however has suggested that the OP for instance was wrong in driving at a speed that was comfortable for him.

If I'm not in a hurry I can drive more slowly than some other road users, but I give them every opportunity to overtake, even slowing down and pulling in occasionally.

There is no doubt though that there are people who think that the speed they are doing must be the safest maximum and that anyone wishing to go a little faster automatically qualifies as an idiot. That is not always the case, driving skills and vehicle performance vary greatly.

I do however often find myself being frustrated by drivers who I think are driving far too slowly. That's their right of course but when I find myself in a position to be able to safely overtake them, I hope that they're not calling me an idiot!


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Hobbyfan,
If you are not driving like an idiot then poeple will have no cause to call you one :wink: 

By the way Hobbyfan do you know that stretch of road from the A65 to Threshfield?

And the OP is a her not a him and I am NOT a slowcoach!!!

Val


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## moblee (Dec 31, 2006)

Speed kills........Everyones know's it :!: 

I.m.o It's far better to be late in this world Than Early in the next


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

MaxandPaddy said:


> Hobbyfan, if you are not driving like an idiot then poeple will have no cause to call you one :wink: By the way Hobbyfan do you know that stretch of road from the A65 to Threshfield? And the OP is a her not a him and I am NOT a slowcoach!!!Val


Apologies for the sex change but your name gives no clue whatsoever. Yes, I know it well and it has some longish stretches that are perfectly safe for overtaking and for driving at over 50 mph in a motor-home.

I have no doubt that you consider that you were driving at what you consider the optimum safe speed, but are you also prepared to consider that a driver who is equally safety concious may well believe that the safe speed is say, 5 mph faster than you?

You may not be a slowcoach but the Lunar driver could also be someone who knows the road like the back of his hand and is a very competent driver.

I know a man who genuinely thinks that his driving speed is the only safe one and he berates anyone who has the temerity to overtake him. Believe me, he's a codger who any sensible driver would become frustrated by if he was stuck behind him! He's a good friend by the way but a pain on the road! 

I'd just like people to accept that there are drivers who are quite safe and know what they're doing at speeds a little higher than some of us. There are times when it can be frustrating stuck behind a slow driver. Some people have to make progress and not everyone's on holiday!

Anyway, drive safely and PM me your reg number and I'll be sure not to overtake you!


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Hobbyfan said:


> Yes, the road had bends, but presumably it also had nice straight bits ........... As we've already been told, it was a nice dry day and the only drawbacks were some leaves on the road and some 'flooding'. What's flooding, a few puddles here and there? .!


I've driven that bit of road several times in high summer and frankly, would not wish to do it in a motorhome at speeds above 45 mph. Wing mirrors are expensive and scratched paintwork and windows difficult to restore. It's twisty with few- any ? - safe overtaking places for anyone going fast.

When the OP says " flooding" I think she means more than a few puddles; it's not a well-drained road with great muddy patches at the sides.

As proved by the OP and thousands of others with her, speeding does not necessarily get you to your destination any faster and might result in you not getting there at all.

G


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

There's a coincidence !
In another thread, Hobbyfan has declared my speedo to be faulty, and hey presto, he has just found yours to be so.
Wonderful thing, this omniscience - innit ?


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

ThursdaysChild said:


> There's a coincidence !
> In another thread, Hobbyfan has declared my speedo to be faulty, and hey presto, he has just found yours to be so.
> Wonderful thing, this omniscience - innit ?


That's not fair now, I never said it was faulty!  What I said was that most speedos read fast. They aren't allowed to read slower than the indicated speed for obvious reasons.

Many people driving in the middle lane of a motorway at what they think is 70 mph are actually only doing 65 mph. That's fine as long as they don't stay there and pull in as the law demands.

Anyone who has a GPS device, which gives a much more accurate speed than a speedo will know the truth of what I say! 

Here's a website worth reading.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=63338


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

By the way, we are talking about the B6265, which leaves the A65 and goes from Skipton to Threshfield I presume? This is the one I take and the road I'm referring to. I consider it safe to drive at 50 mph in many places and there are lots of places where it's safe to overtake.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Hobbyfan said:


> ThursdaysChild said:
> 
> 
> > There's a coincidence !
> ...


I do not wish to get embroiled in this thread but I think you meant to say "What I said was that most speedos read fast. They aren't allowed to read slower than the *actual* speed for obvious reasons". [actual rather than indicated].


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

"Many people driving in the middle lane of a motorway at what they think is 70 mph are actually only doing 65 mph. That's fine as long as they don't stay there and pull in as the law demands. "


1. What on-board device do you have to determine how fast I am going ? I'd love to install one to ensure that I keep up.

2. I think you will find that the law does not demand - the Highway Code suggests.

3. What the law does demand is that you stick to the speed limit.

4. If you want to exceed the limit, why not simply do it in the right-hand lane ? Or is that too much trouble ?


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

Without wishing to get embroiled in this too much, it's worth noting that speedos aren't allowed to understate speed, but can overstate by up to 10%. There are no regulations on GPS, but the speed readouts are not absolutely accurate : accurate yes, exact, no. Therefore if your speedo is reading 70mph and satnav 64mph, your speed could actually be anywhere between the two. The lesson, therefore, is that it's perhaps not the best idea to drive to the limit based on the display of your GPS.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

rayc said:


> I do not wish to get embroiled in this thread but I think you meant to say "What I said was that most speedos read fast. They aren't allowed to read slower than the *actual* speed for obvious reasons". [actual rather than indicated].


Thank you for that and you're quite right. I meant the actual speed. I've never had a car yet that didn't over-read the actual speed.

Car makers cannot by law allow a speedo to under-read so they err on the side of caution.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

ThursdaysChild said:


> 1. What on-board device do you have to determine how fast I am going ? I'd love to install one to ensure that I keep up.2. I think you will find that the law does not demand - the Highway Code suggests.


I think it's clear to everyone what I'm saying. Most speedos over-read, so a driver with an inaccurate speedo may think he is doing 70 mph when in fact he is only doing possible 63 mph. Anyone with a GPS device will know that their speedo is usually slow. GPS devices are very accurate except possibly when going up very steep hills. On motorways they are usually bang on.

If you want an accurate on-board device to check your speed any Tom Tom or Garmin sat-nav will do it.

Drivers who selfishly stick to the middle lane when the inside lane has huge gaps in it effectively reduce a three lane motorway to a two-lane motorway.

Driving in the middle lane when the inside lane is empty is illegal and you can be charged with driving without due care and attention.

Please see the enclosed posts from a police forum and the advice from police officers.

http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?/topic/37733-middle-lane-of-motorway/


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## hippypair (May 1, 2005)

As a Lunar owner,not the one theOP was swearing about,I object to the title of this thread.

Also if you used that sort of language I`m not surprised at his reaction.
Terry.


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## busterbears (Sep 4, 2010)

I fully understand how the perceived impatience of drivers behind irks, some are just more comfortable at speed in their MH than others.

I drove my daughter and i in the dark from Dumfries to Newcastleton on Friday night, my first time driving our MH 'buster' in the dark and without hubby. From Annan, via Canonbie to Newcastleton its very dark and twisty, single track. I was very aware of cars behind me going home from work but anything more than 45-50 max felt very uncomfortable, and it had to be much slower on the bends. I feel as much right to be on the road as everyone else and objected to the car behind trying to drive straight into busters living room! As he was making me nervous i slowed on a straight and pulled over as much as i could and off he roared, then lo and behold behind me was another MH going to the same site, he kept a comfortable distance and i felt reassured that i was neither speeding or holding anyone up. Whoever it was, thanks, it helped my confidence driving the MH in the dark for the first time.

I value my life and MH greatly so I'll also be sticking to my comfort speed!


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi hippypair.
You can help me here,as the owner of a Lunar m/home, if Lunar made a fith wheel m/home,would it be called a....Lunar-Tic? Oh thrice Lol. Goodnight.
Ted


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hobbyfan said:


> By the way, we are talking about the B6265, which leaves the A65 and goes from Skipton to Threshfield I presume? This is the one I take and the road I'm referring to. I consider it safe to drive at 50 mph in many places and there are lots of places where it's safe to overtake.


Hobbyfan

Is your other vehicle, a BMW by any chance?   

Andy


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

foll-de-roll said:


> Hobbyfan
> Is your other vehicle, a BMW by any chance?
> Andy


No, it's a lot better than that!  As you ask it's a Mercedes SL. You know how it is, go through the male menopause and buy a sports car. I'm on my second one now and I love it!


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## DaveJM (Dec 29, 2008)

I can fully sympathise with the annoyance felt by Val – however there is no mention of the Lunar driver causing any danger to the OP.

He may well have been an excellent driver and knew the road well and was comfortable overtaking. Personally I do not know the road but I accept Hobbyfan’s analysis.

If I had been the Lunar driver in the queue and confronted with those remarks I might have reacted in the same way. Also I am not sure what relevance the wearing of a vest has to the post! 

It is all too easy and too common these days for us to make judgements about other people without knowing all the facts – we all do it. Maybe the Lunar driver is a member of MHF, I don’t know, but if he is I wonder what he is thinking about this thread!

David


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## roamingsue (Aug 23, 2008)

I find it interesting the suggestion that possibility that the reason the driver was going faster was he was more skilled because my experience has shown me it is usually the less experienced who put their foot down! 
Fast drivers are often very arrogant at their ability.

Many years ago there was a competition in the village on driving ability for charity. Many boy/oldboy racers took part, experianced farm drivers etc.... There was much laughing when the two women who drove the bread van and were often beratted for their slow driving generally took to the wheel.

Guess what they won, first and second place!! I think they were more surprised than anybody else but they were flippen brilliant the way they shimmied through the cones at speed. Manoevering WOW. 

A thought. Maybe we all need to be more modest and realistic about our driving abilities. Maybe the more skilled see the danger and slow down


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

Mornin all,
Well I must say I'm erring on HF's side of this one. I fully respect the rights of people to drive in a manner which they feel is appropriate for the road. 
However I would like to be shown the same appreciation for the manner in which I'd like to drive, so long as it's within the law!!.
Now I'm the first to stand up & say I'm not the worlds best driver, but neither am I the worst, I feel my observation is quite good, & my car & camper control is pretty reasonable.

No one can predict events on the road, but neither can you drive in such a paranoid way that every bend hides an accident, if that was the case no one would ever make progress. If that makes me a dangerous driver then I apologise.

I drive that stretch of road quite regularly, & to be honest find it a quite fast stretch of road. There are several opporchancities to overtake, even in a van, I've done it, in my humble opinion quite safely. I know the national limit is is just that, a limit not a target as has already been said, but if I feel safe & competent to do that limit, then I will. The road has been graded at such a limit by powers higher & in theory more knowledgeable than me, & was done in days when general handling characteristics were no where as good as they are now.

If you feel safe at a speed that's absolutely fine, but please don't think that, unless a manoeuvre is blatantly idiotic, e.g. overtaking on a blind bend, that everyone else is driving beyond their capabilities. 
Indeed, if they are, then it's better to let them past, cos they won't stuff you up the back end then & you'll have plenty of time to stop & offer assistance when you come across the carnage!

Round that area I constantly drive with an eye on the mirror as lots of bikes are about; if I see one, I immediately (as long as it's safe!) nudge to the left & dip my indicator to let them know I've seen them & they can pass, they inevitably cock a leg (so to speak) as they overtake & carry on their merry way, everyone's happy. 


The main thing is drive safe & stay happy, lifes too short to wind yersel' up!!


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Oh my word!
My point is the Lunar driver was driving too fast,he admitted he was doing 60mph and imo that is too fast in a Motorhome but if some of you think that is safe then go ahead and drive in that fashion!
My Motorhome is legally limited to 50mph on a single carriageway so I was not that much under the limit at 45mph but if you folk that are clearly much better drivers than me think I am getting under your feet then so be it! Perhaps you should take a spin in your Merc and take me on the straight bits,personally I value my Merc too much to throw it about on country lanes. I am a bit too young for the mid-life crisis thing!
Sorry for the Looney in a Lunar but it was meant to be humerous but if it has offended I did not mean it generally about all Lunar owners ........perhaps you should call me a Nobby in a Hobby and then we are all square!
If you think politely saying "You did not get here much quicker than me " with a smile on my face is going to annoy someone then I suggest you stay wrapped up in cotton wool as there are some nasty people out there who will say a lot worse!
Hobbyfan please overtake the Hobby Toskana Exclusive 750 with the VAL plate anytime you want and I will give you a wave as you pass.
Finally keep safe and enjoy your Motorhoming whatever speed you may choose to drive.
And if the Lunar owner in question does read this he will know who he is and probably not give a hoot and in future I will do the same.
The comment about the vest was to illustrate that it is far too cold in these parts to wear such a garment,you are lucky to get away with one in Summer!

Val


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

roamingsue said:


> I find it interesting the suggestion that possibility that the reason the driver was going faster was he was more skilled because my experience has shown me it is usually the less experienced who put their foot down!
> Fast drivers are often very arrogant at their ability.


The driver in this report is a good example of what you say:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8028666.stm


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I've read through this thread and am none the wiser about what the Lunar driver did wrong. He doesn't appear to have cut anyone up and he doesn't appear to have caused an accident. What annoys me - probably as much as the OP was obviously annoyed by the Lunar driver - are motorists who think that just because they are going at a certain speed that they find comfortable, then it shouldn't be allowed for anyone to go faster. These motorists can frequently be found in the middle and outside lanes of motorways doing 70mph. When on single carriageway roads, a number of them like to speed up whenever entering possible overtaking sections so as to ensure that as many following motorists will remain stuck behind them. Some of them adopt one of two tactics when they are overtaken. Either brake just as the car behind is about to swing out to overtake or flashing their headlights in a demented manner when they are eventually overtaken.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Or try to accelerate to stop you getting past, Alan.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Cough cough

You have to drive to the road conditions not the speed limit ----

The B6265 for instance is passable but is covered with water just south of Threshfield

09:30 November 5th

and then

It's now raining heavily in the Dales and after the recent period of heavy rain we are expecting and some of the Dales roads will be again be under water.

Currently we don't have reports of flooding but there is still plenty of debris on the roads so take care when driving in the area.

09:45 November 8th 2010

http://www.traveldales.org.uk/news.cfm?categoryid=8


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

locovan said:


> Cough cough
> 
> You have to drive to the road conditions not the speed limit ----
> 
> ...


As the OP said it was a bright sunny day and the main problem was some flooding, which couldn't have been too terrible or the road would have been closed.

The 'flooding' would have been sporadic with the rest of the road perfectly safe to drive at a decent speed or overtake.

Anyway, just to complicate life I don't think that some of us are talking about the B6265, which is the road I use and find fine for overtaking as it has many safe stretches were it can be done.

I've noticed that the OP comes from Leeds and may be referring to a totally different road, which I don't know, but my point would be unchanged, which is that it's wrong to assume that the speed that you drive at is always the maximum safe speed. It suggests that you consider yourself the most perfect driver and that no else else can be any better.

Obviously there are stupid drivers who do stupid things, but in this case the overtaking appears to have been done quite safely and the Lunar driver arrived quite safely at the site.

I must admit that I find the speed that some people drive at is irritatingly slow, not that I'm suggesting that the OP was in this category, but there are times when I've overtaken quite safely to find the car or 'van I've overtaken flashing his headlights. Why, because he or she thinks that he's the best driver in the world and that anyone who drives a bit faster is some kind of a nutcase. It's simply not true!


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hobbyfan said:


> foll-de-roll said:
> 
> 
> > Hobbyfan
> ...


Hi

My favourite car. You are obviously a man of taste. Pity about your driving habits   

Andy


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

MaxandPaddy said:


> Oh my word!
> My point is the Lunar driver was driving too fast,he admitted he was doing 60mph and imo that is too fast in a Motorhome but if some of you think that is safe then go ahead and drive in that fashion!
> My Motorhome is legally limited to 50mph on a single carriageway so I was not that much under the limit at 45mph but if you folk that are clearly much better drivers than me think I am getting under your feet then so be it! Perhaps you should take a spin in your Merc and take me on the straight bits,personally I value my Merc too much to throw it about on country lanes. I am a bit too young for the mid-life crisis thing!
> Sorry for the Looney in a Lunar but it was meant to be humerous but if it has offended I did not mean it generally about all Lunar owners ........perhaps you should call me a Nobby in a Hobby and then we are all square!
> ...


Val

I think you have this guy all wrong

The wearing of a vest and driving fast is an attempt to get women to speak to him, on this occasion he succeeded even if it was a very politely and sweetly delivered rollocking, you probably made his day 

Stay safe all and enjoy whatever speed you travel at.

Chris


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

What a load of fuss about nothing. There was no mention of this Lunar driver driving dangerously so what is the problem??
It is all about respecting other road users. If the OP was travelling slowly at 40-45 mph, then just about every vehicle coming up behind would be looking to overake. Lets face it, we all drive a lot slower in our MHomes than we do in our cars so I always look behind me and will pull over in a safe spot if there is a long line of traffic. 
I live in the country and get so annoyed with tractor drivers who plod along at 30-35 completely oblivious to 20 or 30 vehicles behind, and refuse to pull over when they can. Some do, many don't. 
The point being that it is everyones right to drive as slowly, or as quickly as they like (within limits of course) just as long as they respect other drivers who may want to go that little bit quicker.


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you HF for directing me to the police chatroom. It is perfectly clear from the posts therein that the very best that the police could come up with is " care and attention", and even then they would have to prove to the magistrates that another vehicle had been endangered.

Quote " 
As with everything, I think this particular scenario needs a bit of common sense. It is right that there is no specific law to cover driving in lane 2. "
Unquote.

I forgive you.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Thank you HF for directing me to the police chatroom. It is perfectly clear from the posts therein that the very best that the police could come up with is " care and attention", and even then they would have to prove to the magistrates that another vehicle had been endangered.


Driving without due care and attention is a serious offence and gets a big fine and points on your licence. If you're happy to invite that, good luck to you.

Of course the point in question is, why? Why ignore the Highway Code? Why refuse to move into an empty lane and stop reducing a three lane motorway to two? It's very odd.

Any driver who lacks the skill to move lanes when appropriate and only feels safe by sticking in the middle lane should not be driving on motorways.

Here's another website for your education. I can find another dozen if you like. Perhaps you can find just one for me that supports middle-lane hogging?

http://www.howmotorwayswork.co.uk/middle_lane.htm

You are on very sticky ground continually trying to defend middle-lane hogging. You will not find one official body that supports you. Every poll of 'Things that annoy drivers' cites middle-lane hogging high on the list.


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Here we go again :roll:


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

tonyt said:


> Here we go again :roll:


This is a sensible debate that's being done intelligently and without confrontation by anyone. Why are you intent on stirring things up again just because of a personal animosity to me, which is well documented?

I'm not a button pusher but this is one occasion that I feel inclined to push.

I shall continue debating speed and middle lane driving but will not discuss this with you again. I've made my point and your methods are once again laid out clearly for all to see but I will not prolong it.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Whilst this is getting off topic, I agree with almost everything Hobbyfan has written in this thread.

Drivers turning 3 lanes into 2 is bad but I was amazed to see how the 4 lane M25 is also turned into 2 lanes, by inconsiderate motorists. I almost always get as far across to the left as I can if there is a gap of 20 metres or more, and I rarely have a problem getting back out to overtake.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

H1-GBV said:


> Whilst this is getting off topic, I agree with almost everything Hobbyfan has written in this thread.


I don't think going off topic is always a bad thing. The "Lunar" bit has been well chewed already, and the discussion has followed a natural progression - just as it would in a pub over a pint of ale. 

*I am just hoping that the Mods will not have to intervene!!!*

Dave


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

Speed is not really the issue IMO as long as it is within the legal limits.

It's all about the road conditions and the driver's training, experience, and ability. It's also about his/her state of mind, concentration or lack of it, at the time. If we are honest we all know that sometimes we don't drive as well as at others for a variety of reasons. The capability of the vehicle also plays a large part. 

Dangerous manoeuvres are fairly easy to recognize, driving too fast is often a matter of opinion.


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

My point was I did think the person in the Lunar was driving dangerously at 60mph!
Have you never had your wing mirror clipped by an on coming van doing a similar speed!
I have been hit at 50mph by an on coming vehicle which took the rear axle off my car and put all the passengers in hospital!
The accident was due to someone loosing control on a bend and taking off into mid-air and the only way they stopped was by hitting me!
So if I seem a little sensitive about people driving fast on bends and wet roads in a vehicle that (IMO) is not designed for that purpose then that may explain why!
Is it so bad to expect people to drive carefully?
This guy would get Motorhomers a bad name driving like that any anyway why not enjoy the Dales.
If you want to drive fast take a trip on a Motorway!

Va


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

MaxandPaddy said:


> If you want to drive fast take a trip on a Motorway!
> Va


But make sure that you keep left and don't hog the middle lane!


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi


One of the reasons for saying in the middle lane, is that, the inside lanes on just about every Motorway in the Country have been wrecked by 40+ Ton Lorries, thanks to the wisdom of the clowns in the EU and the weakness of the clowns in Westminster.


I transfer my stress to the guys in BMWs and Merc SLs behind me. :wink: :wink: :wink: 


Andy


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

foll-de-roll said:


> I transfer my stress to the guys in BMWs and Merc SLs behind me. :wink: :wink: :wink:
> Andy


Not only do you need two lanes but you have to make two posts to tell us! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ps I'm in the red/burgundy SL, there are very few of this colour so make sure you let me pass or I'll complain about you on the forum! :wink:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

MaxandPaddy said:


> My point was I did think the person in the Lunar was driving dangerously at 60mph!
> Va


This is the legal definition of dangerous driving:
" Dangerous driving is defined as driving in a manner which falls FAR below that of a competent driver and driving in such a way that it would be obvious to a competent driver that there is a serious risk of personal injury or serious damage to property".

Because you perceive something to be 'dangerous' does not automatically mean it is. I do not know if the Lunar drivers conduct fell "FAR below that of a competent driver" but it is very rare to get charged for dangerous driving where no actual harm has been caused.

As far as the speed alone is concerned that is a judgement that all drivers have to make for themselves. We cannot expect the authorities to regulate for every place and conditions so we all have to drive at a speed that we consider safe and within the speed limit.
You felt comfortable at 45mph and the Lunar driver felt ok to do 60. Being overtaken at that particular moment at that particular place obviously annoyed or worried you. Would you have been more comfortable if he had either not overtaken you or had done so at a lower speed? 
Can you please explain in a couple of points what was so dangerous about his manner, [besides wearing a vest].


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Here is a photo of my rear hobbyfan so you will know if you are ever stuck behind me :lol: 

Val


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

MaxandPaddy said:


> Here is a photo of my rear hobbyfan so you will know if you are ever stuck behind me :lol:
> Val


If I'm ever stuck behind you I'll be staying there. You can go as slowly as you like! :lol:


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

rayc,
I could not care less that I was overtaken by the chap in the Lunar,it could have been any type of Motorhome, really the make and model is not the issue.
I felt (and my husband also had the same view) that 60mph on such a road which was wet and had a lot of standing water on it and could be slippery in parts was not the safest way to drive.
I really do not care about being overtaken,I just thought to drive so fast in a Motorhome on a single carriage road,when there was no real need to as I was not driving that slow was probably arrogance and more showing off and could have caused him an accident.
But in future I assure you I shall never be concerned about anyone else and I shall not make comment about peoples style of driving.
The vest?
Come on who wears a vest in this weather?
I had my very best Hunting and Shooting Gear on and the Labrador in the back so please don't think I was judging the young mans pedigree :wink: !

Val


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hobbyfan said:


> foll-de-roll said:
> 
> 
> > I transfer my stress to the guys in BMWs and Merc SLs behind me. :wink: :wink: :wink:
> ...


Hi Hobbyfan

Deliberate mistake, for those slow on the uptake.   

Andy.

PS I shall empty my waste bin on you, as you pass. :twisted:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Our local road is the A34; effectively a motorway in all but official designation it is 2 lanes, carries huge numbers of heavy lorries and grinds to a halt at least once a day. Major pile ups are weekly. It also has bikes and tractors to add to the mix.

Most car drivers stick in the outside lane as they are terrified of getting stuck behind a tractor or lorry. The outside lane is usually a continuous stream of cars doing 70 + and, when anything happens in front, it slows to a crawl. 

Those of us in the inside lane, who have been pottering along at 60-65 mph, are then forced to make a choice: either we slow down to a crawl and keep parallel with the outside lane cars, even though the road is empty in front of us, or we continue at a reasonable speed, overtaking cars on our right and risking running into one of them that decides to move into the nearside lane.

Legally I think you're supposed to be slower than the cars in the outer lane but, if on the A 34 you ever see a woman in a Renault Scenic shrieking obscenities at other drivers, it's probably me who has finally snapped.

G


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

rayc,

He looked a little like this in his vest 8O 8O 8O 

Val


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

MaxandPaddy said:


> He looked a little like this in his vest 8O 8O 8O
> Val


That's my personal therapist, Miss Domina Whiplash, before she's put her dress and make up on. Very unfair putting her picture on a website! She'll charge me double next week now!


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Serves you right,please tell her to get fully clothed before she enters a Caravan Club establishment in the future and to make sure she has had a shave :wink: !


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

MaxandPaddy said:


> rayc,
> I could not care less that I was overtaken by the chap in the Lunar,it could have been any type of Motorhome, really the make and model is not the issue.
> I felt (and my husband also had the same view) that 60mph on such a road which was wet and had a lot of standing water on it and could be slippery in parts was not the safest way to drive.
> I really do not care about being overtaken,I just thought to drive so fast in a Motorhome on a single carriage road,when there was no real need to as I was not driving that slow was probably arrogance and more showing off and could have caused him an accident.
> But in future I assure you I shall never be concerned about anyone Val


Val, Ok, thanks I understand now. I just had some confusion in working out what he had done that could be considered dangerous in the legal definition of Dangerous Driving.

Why have you said "But in future I assure you I shall never be concerned..........etc"?
If you feel strongly enough to start the topic then I am sure that you can take a bit of discussion. That is what the forum and debate is all about. I think it has remained adult and civilised with no personal barbs, except for your one about the lunar drivers vest, his childishness etc.
All the best on your travels at whatever speed, within the limit of course, that you feel comfortable with.

Ray


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## Focusgirl (Mar 3, 2010)

Mr Hobbyfan, tell a cyclist or pedestrian that 45mph on a twisty road is to slow and I am sure you will get an equally inconsiderate answer!


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Focusgirl said:


> Mr Hobbyfan, tell a cyclist or pedestrian that 45mph on a twisty road is to slow and I am sure you will get an equally inconsiderate answer!


I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything and I'm a cyclist by the way! :?

And of course no one has even suggested that 40-45 mph is too slow. All that I and many others have argued is that some people can drive quite safely at slightly higher speeds than others. No more, no less!


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

On the other hand, I would say that if a cyclist or pedestrian was doing 45 mph, that would be a tad too fast.


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

MaxandPaddy said:


> rayc,
> 
> He looked a little like this in his vest 8O 8O 8O
> 
> Val


Hi Val

I'm afraid it's a Class thing, and I am afraid that Motorhomers tend to be from the lower classes, and no amount of money can buy class. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Andy


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

Andy, you surely mean from 'the lower orders' :lol:


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## Focusgirl (Mar 3, 2010)

Mr Hobbyfan it has everything to do with it as we are talking about being frustrated by other drivers driving to slowly. How petty is that !

During your cycling exploits you have obviously not come close to death or suffered serious injury as I have by bad driving. That is not petty!

If I get hit by a vehicle at anything over 30mph I will probably Die.

Before anyone comments I am a cycle instuctor and a full motorcycle licence holder, a car driver and a motorhomer.

Please help to keep cyclists safe when driving. You are comparatively safe in your vehicle.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Focusgirl said:


> Mr Hobbyfan it has everything to do with it as we are talking about being frustrated by other drivers driving to slowly. How petty is that !
> 
> During your cycling exploits you have obviously not come close to death or suffered serious injury as I have by bad driving. That is not petty!
> 
> ...


Once again you're on the wrong track. This thread was about someone who became frustrated because she was overtaken. And I can assure you that there's nothing petty about being frustrated at being held up by a very slow driver when you're a vet or a district nurse or anyone whose job entails driving.

If a cyclist is hit by an idiot who isn't driving sensibly by watching carefully and giving cyclists lots of room, as I do, whether the motor-home is doing 45 mph or 50 mph will make little difference.

Why are you assuming that people who drive at say 50 mph, when another may feel comfortable at 45 mph, are somehow the type who will ignore cyclists and mow them down?

Driving is about alertness and reading the road and being prepared and very often you will find that it's those who are pushing on who are the most alert and the most unlikely to have an accident.

One of the biggest threats on the road is those piddling along at slower then average speeds on auto-pilot.

I'm never on auto-pilot and am continually checking conditions. If I can't give a cyclist at least two metres of space I won't pass him or her until I have the opportunity to do so safely.

Please do not assume that drivers who want to push on are any more dangerous than those going much more slowly. It's often the slow ones who have their minds somewhere else, or as I once heard it described: They're in top gear, but their brain is in neutral.


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Seems like everyone is on the wrong track except Mr Hobbyfan.
Odd, innit ?


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## TJ101 (Oct 12, 2008)

ThursdaysChild said:


> "Many people driving in the middle lane of a motorway at what they think is 70 mph are actually only doing 65 mph. That's fine as long as they don't stay there and pull in as the law demands. "
> 
> 1. What on-board device do you have to determine how fast I am going ? I'd love to install one to ensure that I keep up.
> 
> ...


So, are you saying,??

You stick at a indicated 70mph and in the middle lane while you are on a motorway ?? just because you are allowed to ??

If so, another middle lane hogger, sat at 65mph, in a total little world all of their own !! without any consideration for your fellow road user

PLEASE don't do it and think of others


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Seems like everyone is on the wrong track except Mr Hobbyfan. Odd, innit ?


First of all that's a very cheap shot. All I've ever done is argued logically in a debate. If you can convince me and the many others who support my position on this thread that we're wrong, then please do so. This kind of comment sounds as though it's from someone who's lost an argument and can come up with no further sensible addition to support his or her views.

Your comment adds nothing to what has been an intelligent and well argued thread and is personal, unfair and rather nasty I think and it's a great pity that you feel the need to stoop so low.

Your arguments that it is acceptable to sit in the middle lane and refuse to move over have, as far as I can see, not found one supporter so far, so I can possibly understand why you are feeling a bit miffed, but please don't personalise it.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Focusgirl said:


> Please help to keep cyclists safe when driving. You are comparatively safe in your vehicle.


As a car driver, MH driver and cyclist I recognise how vunerable cyclists are.
It is though always worth pointing out to cyclists their responsibilities . A cyclist was killed recently whilst cycling on the main A31 trunk road in Dorset at 5 times the Drink Driving alcohol level. My local paper is tonight reporting that 150 cyclists have been fined for having no lights since the clocks went back.

Not withstanding all that I do not know what your post has to do with anything that Hobbyfan has posted. I have not seen anything in his post which encourages reckless driving or mowing down cyclists and pedestrians.


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Anyone want to start a petition to bring back the man with the red flag who walks in front of every vehicle - unemployment cut at a stroke and pollution significantly reduced!


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

H1-GBV said:


> Anyone want to start a petition to bring back the man with the red flag who walks in front of every vehicle - unemployment cut at a stroke and pollution significantly reduced!


It's not a bad idea but I don't think that it will reduce pollution as the amount of b*llsh*t that's produced by the people who'd favour this scheme would be far worse than any fossil fuel emissions. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ThursdaysChild (Aug 2, 2008)

Personal invective will serve no purpose here, Mr Hobbyfan. Bluff and bluster may serve you well elsewhere, but not with me.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

I've often mused that you could couple together all the cars that trail each other along the right lane of the A34, put a rail underneath and a motive power at the front and call it a _train_.

G


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

ThursdaysChild said:


> Personal invective will serve no purpose here, Mr Hobbyfan. Bluff and bluster may serve you well elsewhere, but not with me.


That's rich! :lol: :lol: :lol: Please give me one logical argument to support your view that middle-lane hogging is either legal, sensible or safe.

Apart from which you are the only one that's used any personal invective when you named and had a go at me. Bluff and bluster comes from those with no logical argument.

You really seem determined to sabotage this thread by personalising it. Please try to keep your posts to logical argument or to a bit of fun such as in the 'Red Flag' post.


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## ChrisandJohn (Feb 3, 2008)

peribro said:


> snipped ..... motorists who think that just because they are going at a certain speed that they find comfortable, then it shouldn't be allowed for anyone to go faster. These motorists can frequently be found in the middle and outside lanes of motorways doing 70mph. .


 I thought 70 mph was the limit.

Chris


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

*Ok Stop now and please listen* as I will say this only once.

You MAY attack a members argument but you may not attack the member. If this continues, we will have no alternative but to moderate this thread.

I suggest that those posters who have forgotten how to behave here edit their own posts ..or I will do it for them and in doing so I will also remove them from this thread.

Mike


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Edited.........No comment! :roll:


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Personally, I think that the 70 mph limit on motorways is too slow and would like to see it increased to 80, with the proviso that it is reduced to 60 during inclement weather. There are plenty of overhead signs these days to warn motorists of the 60 limit so that shouldn't be a problem to enforce. I noticed travelling through France that two limits were applied. 
And I agree with HF that if everyone used the correct lanes, we would have fewer tailbacks and irate drivers.


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## DaveJM (Dec 29, 2008)

I for one totally agree with HF's posts. 

If we are going to keep these debates at a reasonably high level I think it is important that posters adopt a logical approach and do not offer judgements on other posters without knowing the facts and/or without having read and considered their post in detail and understood it.

For example whilst it entirely reasonable that MH drivers and others should be careful when passing cyclists that was never the issue being discussed on this thread. By all means make a general comment about the need to be careful when passing cyclists but don't try and link that comment to make a judgement on another poster who has been putting forward logical arguments in response to the original post.

PS I am a cyclist, drive a BMW and a motorhome and until a few months ago also had a Merc SL - but I don't wear a vest!! - no hope for me then!!! 
:lol:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Having seen the effect of rtc's at 70mph it is quite fast enough IMO.

The speed is NOT the problem, it is the capability and reaction speed of the person behind the wheel.

There is considerable evidence that as a person ages their reaction speed slows down and they cannot react fast enough to cope with a sudden problem, however that is caused - by someone suddenly swapping lanes without looking, or a tyre failure or even the driver sneezing!

The French system with only two lanes mainly works very well as the drivers using them seem to follow lane discipline much more carefully - only pulling out into the second lane to overtake and then going back again. Perhaps that is because French motorways have so much less traffic that by going back into the right hand lane they do not feel they will get trapped - as so often happens in the UK.

I also like the slower speed limits when it is raining - that is sensible, but having spoken to numerous French drivers there seems to be considerable disagreement as to what is meant by "Raining" - a light drizzle or only a torrential downpour?

So I can see what is being said, but would not wish the speed limits to be raised - there is enough flouting of the 70mph now anyway! Many cars seem to be doing considerably in excess of that, cruising along in lane 3 (the right hand lane) and never seem to slacken their speed or move back to the left hand side (which is where the Highway Code says we should be driving).

Just my views on a few of the points raised so far - I am happy to discuss my observations but have seen enough of the consequences of poor driving to be well aware that it does exist and MANY drivers who passed their test "XYZ" years ago would probably not be able to pass the test now and may well have acquired some very bad, potentially dangerous, faults. 8O  

Dave


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

I agree with most of your post Penguin except for the speed limits part. I think that the 70mph limit which was imposed when vehicles were less capable tends to cause bunching when adhered to, and that in itself can cause dangerous situations. 

I wouldn't be in favour of a lower limit 'when raining' either for the reasons given by your French drivers, and also because limits tend to lull drivers into a false sense of security.

IMO better driver training is the answer so that proper judgments about road conditions are made. It's just as possible to drive like an idiot at 40mph as it is at 60mph and the potential end result isn't a lot different.


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## ICDSUN (Oct 10, 2006)

My personal feeling is that the speed limits are too low given the average car has far better braking systems and other aids to allow a car to stop from the time the speed limits were imposed, you will see on a daily basis a large proportion of cars exceeding the relevant speed limit, I have no problem with that when it is safe to do so. 

Until very recently I covered 50-60k a year for the last 18+ years on the roads both here and in Europe, and I have exceeded the limits, I'm not proud of that fact but it is inevitable that you will transgress at some stage doing that level of mileage. I am quite happy to plod along at 60-65 in the van in the appropriate lane but I do need to press on when travelling on business, I consider myself a reasonable driver no more no less

On every return to the UK it never ceased to amaze me how a UK driver could happily use good lane discipline whilst in Europe but as soon as they hit the UK becomes unable or unwilling to relinquish the middle lane, maybe the inside lane monster will get them who knows

It is the driving standards of a lot of people that need addressing, we drive on the left in this country, on motorways I believe it is well documented by a variety of bodies that inconsiderate drivers who insist on travelling in the middle lane are a major cause of congestion on motorways

I'll get me hat

Chris


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

Wasn't the 70mph limit imposed on motorways in 1972(?) to keep consumption down during the fuel crisis following the Arab-Israeli war?

At that time, my dad was proud his 1200cc Cortina could do 25mpg, much better than his Austin Cambridge which did18mpg. How times have changed!


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It actually has nothing to do with the efficiency of modern braking systems but has a lot to with driver capability IMO.

I know that many people regularly exceed the 70mph limit, IF that was raised to e.g. 80mph then it could simply mean that many drivers would simply still exceed it, and that could result in many drivers going faster who are not trained or competent to deal with a problem at that speed.

I agree that the two speed limits depending on weather is open to misinterpretation but it MIGHT slow down many drivers in conditions which are not so safe, even for modern braking systems.

Lane discipline is a bad feature of UK driving - for reasons which are understandable and often based on the massive number of vehicles on our roads.......

Driver training does need to be improved - as part of driving an ambulance we were required to demonstrate competence to the standard of the ROSPA Advanced Driving Scheme - assessed by Class 1 Police Driving Insructors...... that was very worthwhile experience IMO and showed me that I had become complacent after driving for 30+ years without accident or points......

That is a scheme that I would *strongly* recommend for ALL drivers, young, or old, new or very experienced.

http://www.roada.org.uk/drivers/index.htm

The training for this was excellent and FREE and I thoroughly enjoyed all aspects of it. Read through the link and see what is involved - it can give you cheaper vehicle insurance.....

Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

The title of this thread has been worrying me ever since I first saw it.

I drive an AutoSleeper!!!!!!! 8O 8O 8O 

Dave   :lol:


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## justlooking (Jun 5, 2008)

The bleeper in the sleeper lol 

Im in a rollerteam , i think im safe


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

i must admit to being in hobbyfan's camp on most of this , i learn't to drive in the army 40+ year's ago once we got off the manouvering course where the clipboard was held over the gearstick [cant see it you will keep your eyes on the road] , the clipboard was put on the dash covering the speedo , point made that the road and load dictated the speed, by this the guy meant good road surface or wet etc and the load meant weight of traffic as much as the veh being driven.
in the eu with km's the speed is in 10k increment's meaning the limit's are far more responsive to road condition's with the technology we have today rather than trying to ensnare someone driving safely 5 minutes over a bye law speed why are the limit's not variable to condition's and traffic , 
my old bus has a 1.9td engine after 7 year's i realise to drive this smmothly i need to keep high ref's etc so i do speed down a hill to get momentum to climb the other side, but first cosideration is the safety of me and mine and other road users, and as i look for a new vehicle i insist on the largest engine poss , you don't have to use it but it's good to know it's there


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## lifestyle (Apr 27, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> The title of this thread has been worrying me ever since I first saw it.
> 
> I drive an AutoSleeper!!!!!!! 8O 8O 8O
> 
> Dave   :lol:


Can you prove were you where on the that particular day :roll: :roll:

  

Les


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I think we need to get things in perspective. The UK roads are amongst the safest in the world and despite what those in authority say this has got to be due in some measure to the skill and care taken by drivers. They would have you believe it is all down to speed cameras and speed humps.

This is what the AA say specifically regarding motorways:

"UK motorways are amongst the safest in Europe if not the world and they should remain so. 
Some drivers are nervous about using motorways but in reality they are at far more risk driving on some of the roads they may use to avoid them. 
Per mile travelled a driver on a rural road faces three times the motorway risk of a fatal accident. A driver on an urban road faces eight times the risk".

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/reports/history-of-motorways.html

As for speeed limits the number is not magical in that 1mph under it is safe and 1 mile over it is dangerous. Driving has got to be much more sophisticated than that . The French Autoroute limit is 130kmh in the dry. This is aprox 80mph - are UK drivers incapable of driving at that speed?

The current policy of enforcement in the UK has made the numbers all important to the detriment of what really matters.

Just my opinion of course but I believe UK drivers should be proud of the UK safety record. Therer will always be those who are reckless but the Government have never made catching them a priority. We were told that when speed cameras were introduced that they would free up traffic officers to police the roads. What actually happened is that they disbanded traffic departments and reduced the number of traffic officers.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

ChrisandJohn said:


> I thought 70 mph was the limit.


It most certainly is the limit - or less if towing etc. However it is for the police to enforce the limit and not for other motorists to attempt to do so by travelling in the middle or outside lanes without reason i.e. overtaking slower moving vehicles.


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## chrisda (Oct 2, 2008)

all this has brought to mind what everybody is missing ,or does only a woman think of it!!!!! you must all have money to burn because the faster you go the more fuel you use,and all i can see is that you all have a bottomless purse,my hubby always taught me to drive economically as well as safely :roll: :roll:


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

chrisda said:


> all this has brought to mind what everybody is missing ,or does only a woman think of it!!!!! you must all have money to burn because the faster you go the more fuel you use,and all i can see is that you all have a bottomless purse,my hubby always taught me to drive economically as well as safely :roll: :roll:


If it was money that was the criteria then speed limits would be set for optimum power output from vehicles in top gear.
There are plenty of 30mph speed limits, sleeping policemen etc. which mean vehicles are driven in 3rd gear or lower which is not good for mpg or for exhaust emissions.

Are you saying that for if the best mpg for your vehicle power band was 50mph in top gear then that is the speed you will drive at? How do you know that your 60mph gives better mpg than my 70?

Do you want to drive at the speed within the speed limit that you want to, whilst not letting me have the same choice?


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

As a student in the 1970s, I visited a London art gallery, and being a student, and with a bunch of mates, I dismissed some paintings on display in an uncharacteristically arrrogant way

A middle aged man nearby (who it transpired was the artist) angrily asked what right I had to express such opinions

My reply was that by putting them on public display, there was some intent to evoke a response (hopefully positive - but not exclusively)

This is what happens when we post our opinions on here, and we are bound to get those who agree and those who disagree 
(do you agree?)

I'm not sure I have been able to get enough facts from the original posting to make a judgement as it is anecdotal and limited to the immediate circumstances of the event
I believe that both poles have merit in their arguments

I was a little disappointed and surprised to read some tetchy interchanges between people I have come to regard very highly, and wonder sometimes, could we not have a SORRY (unreservedly) button that enables us just to quash something without digging an even deeper hole?

O


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Otto-de-froste said:


> I believe that both poles have merit in their arguments
> O


We don't want any of the mamby pamby stuff on here. No sitting on the fence, seeing both sides etc.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

chrisda said:


> all this has brought to mind what everybody is missing ,or does only a woman think of it!!!!! you must all have money to burn because the faster you go the more fuel you use,and all i can see is that you all have a bottomless purse,my hubby always taught me to drive economically as well as safely :roll: :roll:


I guess it's the old cliche of "time is money" or in this case "money is time". I drove up in the motorhome with the toad from the south coast to North Devon on Monday morning and because I wanted to have as much of the day as possible free after arriving, I drove reasonably hard and probably averaged 4 or 5 mpg less than I could have achieved with a lighter right foot. Leaving earlier wasn't an option because of family commitments. It therefore probably cost me an extra tenner or so in fuel to get myself, Mrs P and dog here 45 minutes to an hour earlier - and I don't like driving slowly in any event!


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi



You are all missing the OPs most serious point in my opinion.

HE WAS DRIVING A MOTORHOME IN HIS B---DY VEST, THE SCRUFFY BARSTEWARD. GIVING US ALL A BAD NAME.



Andy :x :x :x :x


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Andy

At least he was wearing a vest!!

If he is one of us, and reads the Naturist forum . . . . . . . . . 8O 

Dave :lol: :lol:


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## justlooking (Jun 5, 2008)

foll-de-roll said:


> Hi
> 
> You are all missing the OPs most serious point in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Be grateful for small mercies ,

he could have had a hankie on his head as well !!!


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## Otto-de-froste (May 20, 2005)

rayc said:


> Otto-de-froste said:
> 
> 
> > I believe that both poles have merit in their arguments
> ...


Yeah..........too right

I actually disagree with everybody

Come to think of it I disagree with you too

 Oh dear..........I shouldn't have watched Jack Naylor on Holby it's made me bolshy

SORRY


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Hi Andy
> 
> If he is one of us, and reads the Naturist forum . . . . . . . . . 8O
> 
> Dave :lol: :lol:


Arrrrggh that bloody forum I hate it. I cant read any threads it wants to make me want to!!!! .. no I cant say I have already been warned.. :roll: ...


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

foll-de-roll said:


> Hi
> 
> You are all missing the OPs most serious point in my opinion.
> 
> ...


OMG,you have really hit the nail on the head,I did not give a toss about how he was driving.......................it was the VEST that really got me going :lol: :lol: :lol: !

Val


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## bigpieeater (Jul 28, 2010)

I know those roads very well, I live there.
40-50mph in ANY vehicle is enough, never mind 60 in a 'Van.
Why bother setting off for a nice weekend in your 'Van only to p*ss people off tearing around at 60mph? This isn't what it is all about is it?
Aren't we supposed to be relaxing? Chilling? Taking it easy?
Why doesn't Mr Loony...err sorry Lunar trade the 'Van for a Porsche?
Hope he doesn't rip past me and cheese me off, I won't be so polite as Maxandpaddy.


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

I've had a terrible day. This morning I found that my credit card had been cloned and later in the day the sun's rays through my daughter's fish tank nearly set my house on fire.

I've just been out for the night and on the way home there was a flipping motor-home doing only 30 mph in a 40 mph area so, in the end, I got fed up and overtook him. Apart from knocking fourteen cyclists, who were out on a training run, off their bikes, the manoeuvre went well and I got past him. 

The daft bugger in the motor-home was wearing a liberty bodice and a flat cap to boot, obviously one of the lower classes, so he deserved to be overtaken I thought.

Let's hope that tomorrow is a better day.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

You have all missed an important point on here.

We have gleaned some personal details about HF during this thread. From the car he drives and his movements, it is my belief that he is an aspiring candidate for Parliament.

He is making all the right contacts and showing the persona of a right wing Tory candidate.

If he mentions that he has a Moat and a duck house then I have got him bang to rights.

he will be offering to kiss babies next. 8O


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

747 said:


> You have all missed an important point on here.
> 
> We have gleaned some personal details about HF during this thread. From the car he drives and his movements, it is my belief that he is an aspiring candidate for Parliament.
> 
> ...


He has boat and goes sailing with his daughter --his surname is Fann :lol: 
He loves driving fast but safe. :roll: bless him x
he has a lovely house and a goldfish that is kept by the stairs. :wink:


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Poor HF, even his fish cannot wait to get away from him. It even set the house on fire in an effort to be rehomed. :lol: 

He is not worried about any fire damage, his expenses will cover it. :wink:


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

747 said:


> We have gleaned some personal details about HF during this thread. From the car he drives and his movements, it is my belief that he is an aspiring candidate for Parliament.
> If he mentions that he has a Moat and a duck house then I have got him bang to rights.


Not bad. No moat but does my garden pond qualify? It had 18 ducks on it this morning. I'm not buying the noisy buggers a house though!


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

Here's one with Jasper my cat feeling bad because he can't get at the nice juicy ducks that come on my pond!

He's still alive but is now about 16 years old. This was taken in 2002.


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## AutoMax (Sep 23, 2008)

Just found an ideal sticker for the van

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motorhome-Car...ervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item4a9e5681ba


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## chrisda (Oct 2, 2008)

I will have you know mr hf that the flat cap is one of this winters fashion accessories not to be worn by just the lower classes as you put it,all i can say is that you cant come from yorkshire or you would allways be in the know about what we wear first,just cos you have ducks it dosnt make you a better person, because we have ferrets n jack russells too lol :lol: :lol: :evil:


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

chrisda said:


> I will have you know mr hf that the flat cap is one of this winters fashion accessories not to be worn by just the lower classes as you put it,all i can say is that you cant come from yorkshire or you would allways be in the know about what we wear first,just cos you have ducks it dosnt make you a better person, because we have ferrets n jack russells too lol :lol: :lol: :evil:


Oh, Mr HF's not from yokshire, he's from t'reight side o t'fence. He's had some personal attacks on here but to accuse him of being from that place wi no colour in it's flowers, well I think the post needs reporting :lol: .

Us people only use your roads cos you can't charge us for it & we know it'll pee you off!!! 8O :lol: :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I think what frustrates a lot of drivers in a hurry in this country is the lack of consideration by slower drivers. Im not saying this is the case here but when I drive our van I and I feel like bumbling along I constantly check my mirror and if I see someone who clearly wants to be past I wait until there is a straight bit, indicate left and let them through. It amazes me how many people just cant be courteous enough to do this simple act. Your probably avoiding them getting irate and then doing something silly. What you actually usually achieve is a wave or a flash of the lights which makes the faster driver happy and makes you feel good to.

I think this is particulalry relevant to commercial vehicles especially in tourist areas. Let them past, they have a job to get to.

As for middle lane hoggers. I feel the time has come to pass a law that allows the deployment of side winder missiles to be attached to each front wing (or roof) which can be fired at will should the inconsiderate pillock not move out of the way on the third flash.

Just a tip on the Dales at the moment as I work there. The roads are prone to flooding in places. Last week I took my eye off the ball just for a second in the pitch black and didn't see the 8 inch deep flood around the corner which I hit at 40 mph. The water came over the car, through the vents and I lost complete control. Luckily control was regained whilst pointing in the right direction(ish). The door locks blew or short circuited and all the windows went down and stayed down. £160 repair bill!


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

Nice one Automax I want one


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## Freddiebooks (Aug 9, 2008)

barryd said:


> I think what frustrates a lot of drivers in a hurry in this country is the lack of consideration by slower drivers. Im not saying this is the case here but when I drive our van I and I feel like bumbling along I constantly check my mirror and if I see someone who clearly wants to be past I wait until there is a straight bit, indicate left and let them through. It amazes me how many people just cant be courteous enough to do this simple act. Your probably avoiding them getting irate and then doing something silly. What you actually usually achieve is a wave or a flash of the lights which makes the faster driver happy and makes you feel good to.
> 
> I think this is particulalry relevant to commercial vehicles especially in tourist areas. Let them past, they have a job to get to.
> 
> ...


I agree with Barry,

I as a rule when in my work vehicle, like to put my foot down a little during my working day. Nothing OTT you understand, somewhere between 50 - 60 mph on A roads etc.

I understand everyone is entitled to go the speed they are comfortable with. Thats fine, but i feel if this is the case and when a car appears in your rear view from out of nowhere, and there are no clear overtaking spots within reasonable time, then i think it's only polite to pull over or take action to let the other vehicle get past safely.

When I'm on a go slow, perhaps in Bernard, i don't think twice about letting fellow drivers through. And half of the time you generally get a thanks by wave or flick of the indicators.

And everyone is happy.

Freddiebooks


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## Hobbyfan (Jul 3, 2010)

chrisda said:


> I will have you know mr hf that the flat cap is one of this winters fashion accessories not to be worn by just the lower classes as you put it,all i can say is that you cant come from yorkshire or you would allways be in the know about what we wear first,just cos you have ducks it dosnt make you a better person, because we have ferrets n jack russells too lol :lol: :lol: :evil:


I know that I'm not a better person than those from the White Rose County. I think that men and women from Yorks are gradely folk and cannot be beat!

I like them so much that I have made sure that there are no words longer than two syllables (apart from syllables) in this reply, so that all the folk from t'other side of t'Pennines can read it.

Ee bah gum and ecky thump!

HF


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

bigpieeater said:


> I know those roads very well, I live there.
> 40-50mph in ANY vehicle is enough, never mind 60 in a 'Van.
> Why bother setting off for a nice weekend in your 'Van only to p*ss people off tearing around at 60mph? This isn't what it is all about is it?
> Aren't we supposed to be relaxing? Chilling? Taking it easy?
> ...


Thank you,you get my point exactly  .

Val


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Hobbyfan said:


> I like them so much that I have made sure that there are no words longer than two syllables (apart from syllables) in this reply, so that all the folk from t'other side of t'Pennines can read it.


Watch your tyres on the night of 3rd January. I know where you'll be !

Don't mess with a Yorkshirewoman !!

G :wink:


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