# Gas Attacks Again



## wakk44

Perhaps the rumours of gas attacks on motorhomers are true,it seems like it is a common method used on tourists around the French Riviera.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ling-victim-Mediterranean-gang-crimewave.html


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## sallytrafic

OMG it must be true then its in The Mail


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## rebbyvid

I'm going out to buy a gas detector for next my trip abroad :roll: :roll:but what if they are using a gas that cant be detected :twisted: :twisted:


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## artona

Early warning coming in........Gas attacks are well known as causing more arguments amongst motorhomers than whether your batteries need to be purchased together and other such riveting topics.

Now no arguments boys and girls, play nicely    

stew


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## Hobbyfan

Oh my God, here we go again! If people are stupid enough to believe this nonsense, let them go out and waste their money on gas detectors!

Or they could read this.

http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/index.asp?PageID=987


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## some-where-in-oxford

*gas attack*

Just another slow news day, newspapers have to make a profit


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## barryd

How do they get away with printing such Crud????

Problem is some people actually believe things this paper says and thus the stupid stories start.


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## Westbay

Read on the 'wildcamping' site that it's happening all over Sweden now. I'll be watching Wallander tonight on TV - don't think he's had a case yet. 

Midsummer Murders hasn't cottoned on to this either - surely Midsummer Camping and Caravan park would have seen a case or two by now if it were true?

I was wondering if an old WW2 gas mask would be the thing to use when sleeping abroad?


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## tonyt

Oh goody - a gas attack thread - It's been so long since the last.   

Now come on guys - take this seriously!!


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## foll-de-roll

Hi


What a bunch of nasty pi--ocks on this site. If somone posts a topic on here, which the "nasties" disagree with, they seem to think their opinions are superior to everyone elses, and they have a God given right to attack them, and the National newspaper they read.

They are such a bunch of, Guardian reading, pseudo intellectuals, who are still smarting from you know what.    


Perhaps they would like the Mods to censor all comments, for fear of upsetting the "City Fathers" :roll: :roll: :roll






Andy


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## some-where-in-oxford

Good to see we all have a sense of humour on here. Surprising on how we all get along. :lol:


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Its amazing what a gassing thread blows up

Dave p


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## Zozzer

Our MH has been subjected to gas attacks everytime we go away.
Sometimes it's late at night and sometimes it's travelling down a motorway. It doesn't knock you out, but it sure makes your eyes water. I blame the Mrs, and she blames me.


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## GEMMY

I blame the dog. :lol: 

tony


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## tonyt

Zozzer said:


> Our MH has been subjected to gas attacks everytime we go away.
> Sometimes it's late at night and sometimes it's travelling down a motorway. It doesn't knock you out, but it sure makes your eyes water. I blame the Mrs, and she blames me.


Now come on you lot - stop mocking and take this seriously


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## pneumatician

*Midsummer*

Went to Midsummer in the Cotswolds a couple of weeks ago.
Hardly saw a soul. Could it have been as more subtle approach ?
Gas perhaps, presumably British.

Steve


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## barryd

Guardian reader, Pseudo intellectual me??? OH no!!

And whats "you know what"????


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## Autoquest

Boy, I've got to get up early to catch you guys - I was just going to start this very topic  

Frightening what people will believe though :?

Interestingly I can't find any information on the redoubtble Ms EMILY ANDREWS who wrote the article 8)


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## Glandwr

Some say that skepticism is the art of debunking without offending. I think is due for a come back.

Dick


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## barryd

Ive not really took part in any o the gas threads but does anyone really believe that any of them have been real? Surely not.

It wouldnt work on me anyway when in the med as I leave all the windows open.


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## locovan

Do the insurance companies believe gassing-- as they pay out???.
If the thieves haven't forced a door, as it was open, then you haven't taken all reasonable precautions to protect your property they try and get out of paying up.
So it must be easy to say you were gassed but do the Insrance payout on that reason???


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## some-where-in-oxford

Would it be up to you to prove you were gassed?

How would you do that?


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## ThursdaysChild

Leaving the windows open invalidates the warranty on the gas detector.


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## Hobbyfan

foll-de-roll said:


> Hi
> They are such a bunch of, Guardian reading, pseudo intellectuals, who are still smarting from you know what.
> Andy


Guardian reading - wash your mouth out with soap and water! I read the Telegraph!

Apart from which I've not criticised the Mail and attach no blame to it. Papers print stories that are told to them. The Mail didn't make this up!

The people who made it are the ones who claim to be 'gassed' probably because they'd left their valuables in their room and went to sleep after a few glasses of wine! Insurance claims come to mind!

What gets me is people's inability to work out how silly this entire gassing business is. Even when presented with evidence such as statements from the Royal College of Anaesthetists.

Gassing isn't an opinion, or a belief, like politics or religion. It's a fact or it isn't! And it isn't!

Show me one gassing incident that has been proven to be genuine!


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## cabby

A 4 bedroomed house with the gas passed through the letter box.
assuming that all doors to rooms open and windows closed and the thieves had a large van in which to transport the multiple cylinders of gas.I would imagine it could be done.
Now if a villan had gained entry or just blocked the chimney which sabotaged the boiler so that the fumes ran through the house, (the new boilers will not run if this is the case am told). That would be, maybe a way it is done, or they had a vehicle running with a pipe from the exhaust to the letter box, rather noisy though.
maybe I am cynical, but I am always glad to read that no one was killed.
A typical reaction by the authorities. :roll: :roll: 
moral of story must be to sleep with door closed and windows open.

cabby


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## some-where-in-oxford

What is surprising is that we have not yet had any exploding motorhomes, if the occupant are gassed with easy start.

http://www.jmbadditions.com/gasdetector.php

The reality is that the gas used is, in effect, ether and the most common form of commercially available ether is 'Easy Start' which contains Diethyl ether and Naphtha.


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## presto

Just left van in for gas and smoke alarm.Guy said it also covers narcotic gas.He owes me some discount so he will supply and fit for nothing,its 12 volt he tells me they are expensive.Wife says at times i could use some laughing gas.
PRESTO


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## teemyob

*Gas*

Maybe it was an insurance scam.
Maybe they were cholroformed !
Maybe they were genuine

I have rented many villas on the Cote D'Azur. The last one was on the coast but I don't want to name the village. Really nice luxury pad, mid market house for the area market value of around 7 Million Euros.

The Owner lives in Yorkshire and it is looked after by some French Locals. I asked about security and the locals said whilst burglaries in France are quite rare they are more common on the coast.

The house is not Alarmed
The House has no fencing
The house had never been broken into.

I would just like to see the Police reports and findings into the robberies in the Mail.

TM


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## iandsm

*gas attacks*

I know someone who said they were talking to someone else about what someone told them they had heard someone telling someone else in German on an Italian campsite. It appears some french people had said they had heard about a new method of gassing in Italy. Is was described thus--

The villains take a large pig and starve it for a week. They then overfeed it on sprouts or cabbage and a couple of hours later, in the small hours, they take the pig to a widlcamping spot in he hope of finding a motothome. If they find one, they reverse the pig so that it's rear end is ajacent to an airvent in the motorhome, they then await the results of the sprouts / cabbage feast.

Once the pig has filled the camper with methane, which should take until daybreak and time for the motorhome occupants to rise. The villains anticipate that the first thing the campers will do is light the first *** of the day, or put the gass ketle on. There is, of course, the chance that they might smell the methane but neither occupant will say anything to the others, they will assume it's just human morning flatulance and won't want to offend by complaining.

The spark from the lighter or stove igniter will cause the methane to go off with a terrifying flash and a bang therefore causing the occupants to flee the motorhome leaving the villains free to plunder it's contents at their leisure.

There is a variation to this method used by unscrupulous restaurant owners. They just slaughter the pig and serve it with copious amounts of sprouts / cabbage to people they allow to overnight on the restaurant car par. They simply wait until the morning as above and the occupants will have done the pigs job for them resulting in the same bright flash and loud bang as before. The advantage is they will have charged the campers for the prevous night food so they will have previously taken part of the contents of the wallet!


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## randonneur

I think it says that they were gassed through the letterbox, we don't have letterboxes in France only the ones that are on a post outside or fastened to the wall, there are no letter boxes in the doors as in the UK.


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## wakk44

Thankfully the forum is now starting to take this issue seriously which is what I intended with the OP.I didn't expect to be pilloried because I read the Mail this morning :roll: 

I am just as sceptical as anyone about these so called 'gas attacks',after all it could be used as an excuse to perpetrate an insurance fraud.

The point I found disturbing was when the child awoke to find masked intruders in the room and was injected with something and then went to sleep.He had a needle mark in his arm and had to be tested for HIV.

So is it plausible or an elaborate hoax to defraud insurance companies?

Or could it be that the victims have been intoxicated when robbed and a gassing incident turned out to be a convenient tale to ease their embarrasment?


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## bognormike

well it sounds like they've given up on motorhomes then, and gone for the rich people in the villas :roll: ; or is it that the "rich" people in the villas have cottoned on to a good insurance scam :idea: :idea: :wink:


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## Hobbyfan

wakk44 said:


> Thankfully the forum is now starting to take this issue seriously which is what I intended with the OP.I didn't expect to be pilloried because I read the Mail this morning :roll:
> 
> I am just as sceptical as anyone about these so called 'gas attacks',after all it could be used as an excuse to perpetrate an insurance fraud.
> 
> The point I found disturbing was when the child awoke to find masked intruders in the room and was injected with something and then went to sleep.He had a needle mark in his arm and had to be tested for HIV.
> 
> So is it plausible or an elaborate hoax to defraud insurance companies?
> 
> Or could it be that the victims have been intoxicated when robbed and a gassing incident turned out to be a convenient tale to ease their embarrasment?


I won't pillory you for reading the Mail. The Lefties on this forum may not like it but the simple truth is that it speaks for a huge percentage of the U.K.'s population. I prefer the Telegraph as it's a bit more meaty but I could cheerfully read the Mail.

In my opinion this is an insurance matter. No insurer will cover such large amounts if they are left out. In an hotel you must use the safe and the same at home if you have valuables over a certain figure.

What puzzles me is this - we have robbers who supposedly break in and are sophisticated enough to carry huge gas containers and know enough about medicine to inject a youth and sedate him.

Why didn't they just point a gun, herd them all into a room and carry on robbing the house?

£50K of cash and jewellery was stolen so it was clearly lying around. If it had been in a safe then, once once again, you wave a gun and ask for the combination. You can't do that if everyone is drugged and in a semi-coma!

The only smell here is not from gas but from the very fishy story!


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## Zozzer

I'm extremely sceptical about the usefullness of gas detectors to avoid being the victim of crime.

If criminals want to rob you they will, and no gas detector will stop them. I'm sure there are many ex-military narcotic gases available to the criminal underworld like the mafia that would be totally undetectable to any gas dector system. The question is, do you want to wake up in the middle of being robbed as risk being stabbed or shot. 

Many years ago, my brother was dragged out of bed of his truck in Italy at gun point. No gas attack, just smash the window they were in. My brother was left in just shorts and tee shirt as they drove off down the with his truck.

Would be interesting to get feedback from truck drivers on the prevalence of gas attacks in the road haulage industry, were there are some extremely high value loads being transported daily.

Yes buy a gas detector if you want to know when you have a gas leak, but don't kid yourself into thinking it will stop you being robbed.


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## pippin

I am not saying this method was used but what is the effect of a chloroform soaked pad being placed over the mouth/nose of a sleeping person?

After all that was one of the early methods of anaesthesis.


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## Hobbyfan

We still get back to the point that there is not one documented and verified example of a gas attack on a train, in a motor-home or caravan or in private home or hotel room.

Considering the thousands of them that there are supposed to have been over the last thirty years when criminals were somehow supposed to be taking gas cylinders on French trains and trundling them down the corridors and gassing people, it's odd that no one has ever seen it happen and that no one has ever been seen or caught!

The only recorded instance of gassing, was in 2002 when the Russian authorities, with all the advanced medical and scientific expertise at their disposal tried to gas the hostages and Chechen terrorists holed up in a Moscow theatre.

179 people died, most of them from the gas. The experiment failed because it's impossible to gauge the correct amount of gas to simply sedate someone and not kill them.


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## some-where-in-oxford

There was an article in one of the motorhome magazines, an anesthetist was quoted saying that he believed that these claims were false.

He went on to say that he was having a gas detector fitted because criminals read the newspapers not motorhome magazines, and if they thought that spraying gas into a motorhome was going to put people inside asleep, he'd rather have a detector to warn of this.

"So, do I think the risk of being anaesthetised, or suffocated, is enough to make me buy an alarm? No. Will I fit one to my 'van? Yes. Why? Because ether, and the other gases, are highly flammable. Ether fires are terrifying and I would like to know if someone were spraying this into my motorhome. Every month, the pages of magazines contain three or four adverts for gas detectors, to protect against such a problem. Furthermore, criminals probably don't read Practical Motorhome and may still believe they can anaesthetise us with an ether spray.
An alarm might just frighten off these would-be attackers."


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## tonyt

One thing is indisputable - the MHF forum has more posts on the subject of gassing than any other forum.   

It's been going on for 5+ years and long may it continue to be a source of enjoyment.

I can't write any more - I need to take my unicorn for a walk.


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## some-where-in-oxford

tonyt said:


> I can't write any more - I need to take my unicorn for a walk.


That's plain silly, everyone knows you cannot train a Unicorn. :lol:


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## GEMMY

I find the last two posts {offtopic} can we please be serious. :lol: 

tony


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## Glandwr

Hobbyfan said:


> Apart from which I've not criticised the Mail and attach no blame to it. Papers print stories that are told to them. The Mail didn't make this up!


Agree with you Hobbyfan if you add "selectively" as in "Papers selectively print stories that are told to them." No paper can absolve themselves of responsibility for untruths.

Dick


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## spykal

Just for interest:-

Gas Attack Mystery........ still unresolved <<


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## Sonesta

Whenever I read these stories I feel quite concerned. Not because I believe that these gas attacks actually happen, as I too am very sceptical and in my heart of hearts I do not honestly believe that they do - but then again, that is mainly because I have read a lot of the reports on this and other motorhome related forums and so I have the benefit of being able to take comfort from reading the views expressed from a lot of knowledgeable and well educated sources. 

No - the reason I feel concerned is because these 'gas attack' stories that tend to circulate every so often, do frighten an awful lot of people and as a result they create an immense amount of fear and anxiety for many motorhome users. Nobody should scoff at those who show concern or doubt, as let's face it, most of them are not scientists or medical experts and therefore, when they hear these terrifying horror stories, they do not possess the qualifications or trained knowledge to simply sneer and dismiss them out of hand like a lot of us on here seem to do. If they are not party to internet forums and discussions like those that we see on the likes of MHF, then where do these innocent bystanders gleen their reassurance from and it is therefore quite understandable that a lot of quite intelligent people believe what they hear/read in the media or by what they get told about when during their travels they get chatting to one of the so called 'victims' of these gas attacks!

I think it's about time a proper scientific experiment was conducted using this gas, in order to stop all this scaremongering once and for all and hopefully, once the results are in, this will then put a lot of people's minds at rest and finally put an end (one way or another) to all the speculation surrounding this subject.

Sue


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## LPDrifter

The only positive from a report like this is that it demonstrates
what a rubbish newspaper the Daily Mail is - quick with stories
that create eye catching headlines and drama by printing
scare stories ................ and short on doing any kind of investigative
journalism to check the truth facts in a case.

I would never hear about this if it wasn't reported here because I 
would never buy the Mail or any of its various versions.


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## presto

Must get the Daily Mail this afternoon sounds good  PRESTO


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## ourden

Mail-Sun no difference  

Insurance job


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## barryd

If I ever felt so worried about being gassed robbed or whatever I just wouldn't go motorhoming. If there is ever a genuine case reported and proved first hand by a motorhomer who was gassed and robbed I will book on a cc site (assuming I can get on), run around naked and video it and post it on here


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## jontan

*Gas Attack*

Make a change from my feet and the dog's frequent gas attacks


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## pippin

Tony

_I can't write any more - I need to take my unicorn for a walk. _

some-where-in-oxford

_That's plain silly, everyone knows you cannot train a Unicorn. _

You are both being daft - everyone knows that unicorns are not allowed to travel on trains!


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## bob23

Hi, Pippin asked on page 4 about chloroform being used years back, well in the school lab back in the early fifties I was on my own when I found a bottle which I have always thought was ether so I soaked a pad with it and hid behind the door and jumped the first person to enter and clamped it over his mouth/nose, he went out like a light.
Lucky for me and him he stirred back quickly and as it was my best mate nobody found out.
So to this day I am a believer and do have an ether alarm which was in my last M/H and I transferred it to the present M/H. I only set it on motorway aires which I hardly ever use.


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## tonyt

I know I am guilty (egged on by others!) of poking fun at the whole gassing subject and that's because I just don't believe it but there are others out there who do believe, or at least believe it's a possibility, and that's life - we all have different views on what goes on around us.

So, if you really are worried then by all means arm yourself with a gas detector and sleep comfortably. The same goes for many motorhoming situations, especially for the newbies, if you don't feel comfortable then change things until you do. 

Fit alarms/detectors/safes/guard dogs - whatever you need to feel secure.

(I'll even lend you my unicorn if that would help)


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## Sonesta

Hi Tony,

There's nothing wrong in injecting a bit of light hearted humour and banter into these threads and it sure does help to keep things from becoming too dull and serious! For example: I for one hope barryd does get gassed, as I quite fancy a good ole giggle ... I mean a naked man running around is always a comical sight at the best of times but especially on a caravan club site! I can just picture the wardens running after him, trying in vain to cover up his 'swinging pendulem' with their caravan club high viz jackets :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Sue


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## Spacerunner

I wonder how well a canister of tear gas would work if dropped through an open heki?


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## Glandwr

tonyt said:


> I know I am guilty (egged on by others!) of poking fun at the whole gassing subject and that's because I just don't believe it but there are others out there who do believe, or at least believe it's a possibility, and that's life - we all have different views on what goes on around us.
> 
> So, if you really are worried then by all means arm yourself with a gas detector and sleep comfortably. The same goes for many motorhoming situations, especially for the newbies, if you don't feel comfortable then change things until you do.
> 
> Fit alarms/detectors/safes/guard dogs - whatever you need to feel secure.
> 
> (I'll even lend you my unicorn if that would help)


Reminds me of the camping programme recently on the BBC. Someone recalling French camping holidays with their parents by the sound of it in the early 70's. "My parents would bring absolutely everything to eat and drink for the week/fortnight with them (spam, spam, spam etc.)"

They were absolutely convinced that French food was unpalatable and downright dangerous. Anxiety is a tough master. People in its grip should not be mocked but to deliberately foster it as the Mail is doing in this instance is worse and shows that it is more interested in sensationalism than truth.

Dick


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## Sonesta

LPDrifter said:


> The only positive from a report like this is that it demonstrates
> what a rubbish newspaper the Daily Mail is - quick with stories
> that create eye catching headlines and drama by printing
> scare stories ................ and short on doing any kind of investigative
> journalism to check the truth facts in a case.
> 
> I would never hear about this if it wasn't reported here because I
> would never buy the Mail or any of its various versions.


We haven't bought a daily newspaper for years and hardly ever buy even our own local one. It sounds to me like we're certainly not missing out on anything!

Sue


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## Annsman

I'm more worried that someone who believes these stories has been given a licence for a vehicle to drive it on the roads! How low has your inteligence got to be to even THINK they might be serious?

I've had two people on separate camp sites warn me about using aires or free camping abroad because of being gassed. My reply of "Absolute Bo***cks, only believed by half wits and the mentally ill." Usually ends any further waste of my life listening to them!

Yet I find reading about them on here and replying NOT such a waste. That surely says more about me than them, I suppose. Who knows? You decide, answers on a postcard!


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## Sonesta

Annsman said:


> I'm more worried that someone who believes these stories has been given a licence for a vehicle to drive it on the roads! How low has your inteligence got to be to even THINK they might be serious?
> 
> I've had two people on separate camp sites warn me about using aires or free camping abroad because of being gassed. My reply of "Absolute Bo***cks, only believed by half wits and the mentally ill." Usually ends any further waste of my life listening to them!
> 
> Yet I find reading about them on here and replying NOT such a waste. That surely says more about me than them, I suppose. Who knows? You decide, answers on a postcard!


Aw now come on Annsman that's not very nice and there's no need for that now is there? Pray tell me why does it reflect someone's intelligence? Unless they are familiar with the effects and administration of certain gasses, then I suspect a lot of quite intelligent people would be in the dark about such things. I am sure there are lots of very sensible people who are concerned by such stories and I am sure they would be greatly offended to be described by anyone as being mentally challenged? Like you, I have met people who claim to have been gassed or who know someone who believes they have been gassed - but I would never say anything to make them feel stupid or uncomfortable as what would I possibly gain out of that? I would much rather advise them to read this forum and listen to other motorhomers opinions and views on this subject.

I tell you something - If you spoke to me like you claim to have spoken to those two people god help you, cos by the time I finished with you, you might not have much of a life left to waste! Ha ha! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sue


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## Hobbyfan

Sonesta said:


> Aw now come on Annsman that's not very nice and there's no need for that now is there? Pray tell me why does it reflect someone's intelligence?
> Sue


Could it be because it takes five years to train an anaesthetist so that he can keep a patient in that deep sleep, half way between life and death and even then he has to monitor them permanently?

Could it be that enough gas pumped into a room that might put out a full-sized adult would kill a child?

Could it be because in the thirty years since this nonsense began there has not been a single authenticated gassing?

Could it be that in the thirty years, all those criminals carrying cylinders of gas around train corridors, hotels, aires, motorway services and camp sites have never once been seen by anyone?

Could it be that in these thirty years not one person has been, caught, convicted or even formally charged with gassing?

Could it be because the RCA says this:

http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/index.asp?PageID=987

And still, people maintain that a bunch of Albanian criminals, who are so sophisticated as to be able to obtain narcotic gas, insert it into a large space and sedate everyone of any age and size without harming them, are only interested in stealing from tourists in motor homes, lorry drivers and passengers on trains?

Masterminds like this, if they even existed, would be going after bigger fish!

So what are we supposed to think about people who believe all this nonsense?

Annsman has my vote!


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## Annsman

I'll tell you what I'd have Sue. The satisfaction of letting the people who spread these rumours that put off people from enjoying their motorhomes to the full advantage what I thought of them. I'd be telling people who repeat these scare stories that their intelligence is so low that anyone with a modicom of brain power has better things to do with their lives, (however short that may be :wink: ) than listen to such cr** & lies being peddled as "advice".

The trouble with instead of telling these people just what we think of them we pander to them, and they think they are listened to and their opinions are valued and relevant.

I'm sorry if this upsets you Sue, and others, but I believe they know these stories to be rubbish but they take pleasure in frightening and worrying people. And that's just wrong and they should be told.


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## ardgour

Thank you all for making my day - I saw this article this morning before I left the UK and have been travelling all day but I knew there would be some interesting (and tongue in cheek) discussion. 
I think the statement "they pumped gas through the letterbox then entered and robbed the house through the open patio doors" gives the game away 

Chris (somewhere in France with a very full tummy after a sumptuous meal in a rather delightful restaurant)


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## asprn

Autoquest said:


> Interestingly I can't find any information on the redoubtble Ms EMILY ANDREWS who wrote the article 8)


It's an anagram for

*My lie wanders*

:lol: :lol:


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## gj1023

My Fiance says she don`t need a gas alarm as she can hear it coming

Gary


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## Hobbyfan

asprn said:


> EMILY ANDREWS - It's an anagram for *My lie wanders*
> :lol: :lol:


Good one! Crossword fan like me!


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## some-where-in-oxford

*Anagrams for EMILY ANDREWS*

Anagrams for EMILY ANDREWS

Measly Rewind


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## Hobbyfan

*Re: Anagrams for EMILY ANDREWS*



some-where-in-oxford said:


> Anagrams for EMILY ANDREWS
> Measly Rewind


Or what we motor-homers do, have a:

Smiley Wander


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## Sonesta

Annsman, the ironical thing about all this is, is that I don't believe these gas attacks happen either and I am with you all the way on that one but when we were new to motorhoming and I first heard about such things, I recall feeling quite worried about our first trip into Europe.I am by no means thick and neither is my husband but nevertheless neither of us dismissed the possibilities immediately. As time has gone on and I have listened to all the theories and digested all the information, I obviously feel far better equipped to draw my own conclusions on this subject and I am now of the opinion, that 'gas attacks' are nothing but an 'urban myth!' For example; if we could all be rendered unconscious so easily, then the security forces would use such means to end hostage situations and the like. Criminals would use it to assist all manner of crimes and such power would reek havoc in our society. I also question why we never, ever hear of anyone being woken up by their gas alarms going off due to an attempted 'gas attack?' Surely sods law would have it that a certain percentage of so called 'victims' would have installed a gas detector alarm, so surely somewhere along the line, someone would submit a post explaining how they had been woken up by their gas alarm going off to find an intruder armed with a gas cannister or whatever the 'gas' is supposedly kept in, inside their motorhome? :roll: 

So, whilst I agree wholeheatedly with your view that 'gas attacks' are nothing but a load of complete and utter nonsense, I do not share your view that those who are wary or concerned in any way about what they read or hear, are nothing but a bunch of half wits!

My post was not submitted to attack your opinions, as regardless to whether I share them or not, I respect that they are your opinions to air but I just felt compelled to question why you felt the need to label people quite so bluntly? :? 

Sue

Edit: Just an afterthought Annsman .... and I truly do not have an axe to grind with you I promise you and I think it is good that we can debate these subjects as we do and it certainly get's us all going doesnt it? But tell me - do you really, honestly believe that the aim of every single person who is sucked in by these frightening accounts, is to unnerve people and derive some kind of warped satisfaction from spoiling people's motorhoming enjoyment? I personally cannot see that myself - so I am either extremely trustworthy or just plain gullible? I prefer to think that these people have been misinformed and frightened by such media reports as the one that has been printed in the Daily Mail and maybe a gentle and polite explanation is all that is required from someone like yourself, in order to reassure them that the possibilites of these 'gas attacks' happening are pretty darned unlikely! 

Anyway, I think I've said my bit on this subject now - so I will leave you lot to carry on debating this topic amongst yourselves.

Have a nice day and come on my poppet ..... don't let's fall out!  

Sue


----------



## locovan

Sue I always say that --you never hear of deaths from these gassing and yet people have bad hearts-blood preasure and cancers so how do people tolerate being gassed and having no ill effects. :wink:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?a uthornamef=Emily Andrews

She does write lots of articles for the Daily Mail


----------



## peribro

I'm surprised at the vehemency of some of the comments and the denigration of those who might believe some of the reports that have appeared over the years concerning gas attacks. I agree that there appears to be little evidence to support the stories but why does this topic evoke such strength of feeling against those who have a different view? Perhaps those who are protesting the loudest actually have some personal doubts (possibly even subconsciously) that there might be some basis in fact for these stories.


----------



## brynric

I think Hobbyfan has summed up very well some of the questions that need to be asked. 
I would only add that in an age when (in Daily Mail speak) European criminals are rampaging through the British countryside, why have they not attempted these techniques over here?


----------



## asprn

peribro said:


> I'm surprised at the vehemency of some of the comments and the denigration of those who might believe some of the reports that have appeared over the years concerning gas attacks


I've not seen anyone being denigrated, but I do see the assertion being ridiculed, with good scientific backing. It's called "taking the P" out of the story.



peribro said:


> I agree that there appears to be little evidence to support the stories but why does this topic evoke such strength of feeling against those who have a different view?


You're again mistaking the subject of the strength of feeling. If someone wants to post an article which apparently reports someone being gassed and unconscious for 6 hours despite all credible evidence stating that is impossible, that's entirely a matter for them and few would disagree. However, it's unlikely that the report posted here would ever be taken seriously.



peribro said:


> Perhaps those who are protesting the loudest actually have some personal doubts (possibly even subconsciously) that there might be some basis in fact for these stories


Subconscious doubts. :lol: I love it. The only thing I would protest about is the idiotic report and the effect it may have on those of a nervous disposition. Even a small amount of research discredits it.

It feels like we should have some sort of appeal now - "Come to the front, ladies and gentlemen - cast your doubts aside and enter into the inner harmony which anaesthetic belief brings". :roll:

Dougie.


----------



## brassmonkey001

foll-de-roll said:


> Hi
> 
> What a bunch of nasty pi--ocks on this site. If somone posts a topic on here, which the "nasties" disagree with, they seem to think their opinions are superior to everyone elses, and they have a God given right to attack them, and the National newspaper they read.
> 
> They are such a bunch of, Guardian reading, pseudo intellectuals, who are still smarting from you know what.
> 
> Perhaps they would like the Mods to censor all comments, for fear of upsetting the "City Fathers" :roll: :roll: :roll
> 
> Andy


Ah, but what you've failed to take into account is that if it's in the Mail then it's utter _****e_. The Mail is just the same as The Sport but pitched at the next class up. I'd give more credence to a stranger I'd met in the pub.


----------



## Hobbyfan

brassmonkey001 said:


> Ah, but what you've failed to take into account is that if it's in the Mail then it's utter _[email protected]~&_. The Mail is just the same as The Sport but pitched at the next class up.


Certainly a class up from the Sun, the Mirror and the Daily Star (is that even still going?).

The Mail sits right between the crap tabloids and the broadsheets. People like brassmonkey simply don't like its politics, which are right of centre.

The Mail appeals to millions of people who are clever enough to know that Socialism is, in brassmonkey's own words, sh*te, and that this country has been ruined by the liberal left and the Labour party.

The people who denigrate the Mail all the time are the worst kind of lefty snobs!

Readership figures in this link, maily ABC1s.

http://mailclassified.co.uk/circulation_readership.html


----------



## peribro

asprn said:


> I've not seen anyone being denigrated, but I do see the assertion being ridiculed, with good scientific backing. It's called "taking the P" out of the story.


Erm.. Maybe you have a different definition of "denigrate". I've seen it defined as "To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame." If Annsman is heaping praise and congratulations on those who believe the stories, then I apologise.


Annsman said:


> I've had two people on separate camp sites warn me about using aires or free camping abroad because of being gassed. My reply of "Absolute Bo***cks, only believed by half wits and the mentally ill." Usually ends any further waste of my life listening to them!





asprn said:


> You're again mistaking the subject of the strength of feeling.


It seemed pretty clear to me - the halfwits and the mentally ill who believe it.



asprn said:


> The only thing I would protest about is the idiotic report and the effect it may have on those of a nervous disposition. Even a small amount of research discredits it


Agreed


----------



## sallytrafic

I was the first to mention the Mail in this thread and I'll admit that the paper does hold a fascination of a sort for me. 

Ever since the Mail began it's made a point of reporting in the most outrageous way stuff that at best is made up of half-truths. They did it 100 years ago, its not a new thing. Lord Northcroft used to insist upon that style (it was designed as a paper for women and still has a higher female readership) and its not for nothing that journalists and newspaper insiders call it the Daily Scare. 

What amuses me apart from the labels that some Mail readers give anyone who points out the Mail's shortcomings is the paper has absolutely no shame about getting things wrong. They do not publish corrections until forced by law but they don't get into as much legal hot water as other papers do. I wondered why they don't, given how wide of the mark their reporting is.

I have come to the conclusion its due to one or more of the following:

Many of the targets of their wrath/horror/shock are ill defined groupings who can't answer back because they are not a formal group and have no spokesperson/lawyers.

Many of their articles have what I would describe as a retraction, buried way below the headlines possibly not on the same page admitting perhaps in a very loose way that their headline and main statements may not be true.

There is often so little substance in their attacks that people can't be bothered to put them right 

What really amuses most me is that the Mail will only a few weeks apart get a scare story from two ends of the same thing. So it might make a shock story about DVLA understaffed to deal with licences followed by a shock story that the DVLA have taken on extra staff. BTW I have made that up.

Most of the stories in the Mail don't actually come as a shock to me because I have already read about the underlying story in another paper. 

However those of you who have said that the Mail gives what it's readers want are asserting a self-evident truth


----------



## barryd

Sonesta said:


> I for one hope barryd does get gassed, as I quite fancy a good ole giggle ... I mean a naked man running around is always a comical sight at the best of times but especially on a caravan club site! I can just picture the wardens running after him, trying in vain to cover up his 'swinging pendulem' with their caravan club high viz jackets :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Sue


Thanks Sue, you wont be disappointed! I wouldn't hold your breath though.

Another great Gas thread. Excellent! Sue, you have a point though, we can all laugh as we all (well nearly all) agree its rubbish. Last summer though in Brittany we met a couple who were new to motorhoming and were travelling with a more experienced motorhomer. It was their first night on an Aire and they were really nervous. I was telling them about some wild camping spots near St Malo and Cancal. They looked horrified and I quote-

"Oh no we would never go wild camping in France. The Caravan Club told us it was dangerous and advised us not to use Aires either"!!!!! Hmm, I wonder why they told them that. Being complete novices and hearing it from a supposedly reputable source of course they are going to believe it until they find out for themselves its rubbish. The so called expert they were touring with probably didn't help as he had gas detectors, alarms all over the place and 15 types of crook lock.

And what is it about France? It always seems to be that your going to get done over in France. Probably the safest country I have ever been to! Everyone knows the French are far too busy eating, skiving off work for 4 hours at lunch time or making Lurve to rob you.

Same effect with the mail I guess. My sister and her husband were tuggers and were horrified that we would go wild camping. "Oh they gas you and (this is new one) shoot your windows with air rifles!"

So yes Sue your right, ok for us to scoff but to the uneducated they will believe as they dont know any better.

Keep em coming, its good entertainment.


----------



## BigEddie

*Gas Attacks*

Hi while driving down to Corsica last year we went off the motorway to find a campsite for the night and as we travel out of season we couldn't find one open so went back onto the motorway and stayed in a motorways services area on the E712 near where it joins the E80. We have a small VW Transporter and at approx 1.30 in the morning we awoke with a start but did not know why our first thought was that someone had slammed a door nearby we looked around out of the windows but couldn't see anything. As we heard nothing else we settled down again but me being of the nervous sort I couldn't get back to sleep and in about half an hours time there was was another noise I at first thought it was my partner moving her feet in the bed. I quietly got up moved the drivers curtain to one side and came face to face with two lads early twenties using a screwdriver to get in the door. What they had done was punched the lock out which initially woke us up then hidden untill they thought we had gone to sleep again then tried to open the door. If I hadn't stayed awake I too could have thought we had been gassed. We now have a Clifford alarm that can be used while asleep.


----------



## asprn

peribro said:


> ....."To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame." If Annsman is heaping praise and congratulations on those who believe the stories, then I apologise


I hadn't even considered (still don't) that example as relevant; it's his rhetorical account of what he retorts to people on campsites. He's not said it to anyone here (which would probably be against forum rules anyway) and is generally entitled to say what he likes elsewhere. We similarly are entitled to hold an opinion about the apparent level of rudeness used when he speaks to people, but that's not the same as his having denigrated anyone on this thread.

I still say that gas threads are only ever started here either because the OP is a) a bored mischief-maker (that wouldn't make them a bad person in my view :lol:, or b) naive in the proper sense of the word. The links to the Royal College of Knocker-Outers is enough to wise anyone up who takes the trouble to read it.

Dougie.


----------



## artona

We are "gassing" off topic here but there are a lot of people who would not want to be seen reading the Sun (etc) and do not want to be bothered by the more in depth newspapers like The Times so the Mail fits in perfectly for them. The Express sits in there as well

At this time of the year known as the silly season amongst journos it gets quiet as so many people are on holiday, hence articles being rewritten. 

Well done people for, in the main playing nicely on this one, i know its hard on a thread about gassing   

stew


----------



## asprn

artona said:


> Well done people for, in the main playing nicely on this one, i know its hard on a thread about gassing


I'm gassing for a pint in the Subs Bar. 

Dougie.


----------



## Sonesta

Trouble is Dougie dearest - regardless as to who, what or why someone starts these gas threads - we all still put in our 'two penneth' don't we and as per usual, we all rise to the bait every flipping time! I know I do and I usually get me great big knickers in a twist by the end of it. :rofl: 

Still it keeps us all amused and out of mischief I suppose. :wink: 

Right must get on - I've got loads to do and this forum just gets in the way!  

Sue x


----------



## asprn

Sonesta said:


> ...I usually get me great big knickers in a twist by the end of it. :rofl:


And here was me about to get me brekkie. 8O

Dougie. xxx


----------



## erneboy

Gas my ass!


----------



## Hobbyfan

sallytrafic said:


> I was the first to mention the Mail in this thread and I'll admit that the paper does hold a fascination of a sort for me.
> 
> Ever since the Mail began it's made a point of reporting in the most outrageous way stuff that at best is made up of half-truths. They did it 100 years ago, its not a new thing. Lord Northcroft used to insist upon that style (it was designed as a paper for women and still has a higher female readership) and its not for nothing that journalists and newspaper insiders call it the Daily Scare.
> 
> What amuses me apart from the labels that some Mail readers give anyone who points out the Mail's shortcomings is the paper has absolutely no shame about getting things wrong. They do not publish corrections until forced by law but they don't get into as much legal hot water as other papers do. I wondered why they don't, given how wide of the mark their reporting is.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion its due to one or more of the following:
> 
> Many of the targets of their wrath/horror/shock are ill defined groupings who can't answer back because they are not a formal group and have no spokesperson/lawyers.
> 
> Many of their articles have what I would describe as a retraction, buried way below the headlines possibly not on the same page admitting perhaps in a very loose way that their headline and main statements may not be true.
> 
> There is often so little substance in their attacks that people can't be bothered to put them right
> 
> What really amuses most me is that the Mail will only a few weeks apart get a scare story from two ends of the same thing. So it might make a shock story about DVLA understaffed to deal with licences followed by a shock story that the DVLA have taken on extra staff. BTW I have made that up.
> 
> Most of the stories in the Mail don't actually come as a shock to me because I have already read about the underlying story in another paper.
> 
> However those of you who have said that the Mail gives what it's readers want are asserting a self-evident truth


How do you actually know all this stuff about the Mail? Do you read it every day or, are your opinions, like most others, just based on prejudice and hearsay?

And if you are a reader, why are you if it's so terrible?

Most of the complaints that you have probably apply to all the popular press! They need to sell papers and if they can get a meaty story they'll leap in.

I once read a copy of The Socialist Worker. Now, if you really want to talk about biased, inaccurate and sensationalist reporting................!


----------



## aultymer

Hobbyfan, my impressions of the Mail are based entirely on the articles that some members report on here.

That impression is:- I have yet to see one which was either:- not accurate, non right wing nor of use to anyone other than xenophobes.
(sometimes all of the above)


----------



## Glandwr

To have an informed view of the world you need to read across the political spectrum. Anyone who confines their reading to one end of it is ill informed and probably restricts themselves for fear of their prejudices being challenged

Dick


----------



## sallytrafic

Hobbyfan said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was the first to mention the Mail in this thread and I'll admit that the paper does hold a fascination of a sort for me.
> 
> Ever since the Mail began it's made a point of reporting in the most outrageous way stuff that at best is made up of half-truths. They did it 100 years ago, its not a new thing. Lord Northcroft used to insist upon that style (it was designed as a paper for women and still has a higher female readership) and its not for nothing that journalists and newspaper insiders call it the Daily Scare.
> 
> What amuses me apart from the labels that some Mail readers give anyone who points out the Mail's shortcomings is the paper has absolutely no shame about getting things wrong. They do not publish corrections until forced by law but they don't get into as much legal hot water as other papers do. I wondered why they don't, given how wide of the mark their reporting is.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion its due to one or more of the following:
> 
> Many of the targets of their wrath/horror/shock are ill defined groupings who can't answer back because they are not a formal group and have no spokesperson/lawyers.
> 
> Many of their articles have what I would describe as a retraction, buried way below the headlines possibly not on the same page admitting perhaps in a very loose way that their headline and main statements may not be true.
> 
> There is often so little substance in their attacks that people can't be bothered to put them right
> 
> What really amuses most me is that the Mail will only a few weeks apart get a scare story from two ends of the same thing. So it might make a shock story about DVLA understaffed to deal with licences followed by a shock story that the DVLA have taken on extra staff. BTW I have made that up.
> 
> Most of the stories in the Mail don't actually come as a shock to me because I have already read about the underlying story in another paper.
> 
> However those of you who have said that the Mail gives what it's readers want are asserting a self-evident truth
> 
> 
> 
> How do you actually know all this stuff about the Mail? Do you read it every day or, are your opinions, like most others, just based on prejudice and hearsay?
> 
> And if you are a reader, why are you if it's so terrible?
> 
> Most of the complaints that you have probably apply to all the popular press! They need to sell papers and if they can get a meaty story they'll leap in.
> 
> I once read a copy of The Socialist Worker. Now, if you really want to talk about biased, inaccurate and sensationalist reporting................!
Click to expand...

Where I normally take my morning coffee two or three times a week 
they supply the Times and the Mail. I don't normally bother with the Times and I flip through the Mail out of fascination. As I don't read the sport or society pages it lasts about half way through my large Americano. Once I asked why don't you supply a Guardian the answer was that we buy it but the manager takes it away to read.

I only buy one paper and that is Saturday's Guardian which lasts me to mid-week.


----------



## Hobbyfan

aultymer said:


> Hobbyfan, my impressions of the Mail are based entirely on the articles that some members report on here.
> 
> That impression is:- I have yet to see one which was either:- not accurate, non right wing nor of use to anyone other than xenophobes.
> (sometimes all of the above)


You say that you have yet to see one which is not accurate so I'm not sure how that squares with the other comments.

So it's right wing? What's your point? The Guardian is left wing, so what? And xenophobes? Yea, all four million ABC1s.

Has it occurred to you that, because the articles that you read are from a right-wing newspaper, they are bound to contain things that you obviously disagree with?

Perhaps you think that newspapers that don't share your views should be banned?

If we got lots of articles from the Guardian I'd probably disagree with them but it wouldn't lead me to assume that the Guardian is a crappy left-wing rag run by a bunch of Trots. It's a good newspaper but its views aren't mine and I will never traduce it because I don't follow its editorial leanings.

What I find irritating is this elitist snobbery, often by people who have nothing to be elitist about when you read their writings. (Not you by the way!)


----------



## Hobbyfan

Glandwr said:


> To have an informed view of the world you need to read across the political spectrum. Anyone who confines their reading to one end of it is ill informed and probably restricts themselves for fear of their prejudices being challenged
> 
> Dick


Couldn't agree more. I read the Telegraph but get all my TV and radio news from the BBC!

Having digested it all I usually end up preferring the Telegraph's opinions!


----------



## bognormike

With my mods hat on, can I suggest that we're getting a teensy weeny bit off topic? I know the quoted article was from the DM, but taking that onwards to a discussion about the rights and lefts of the various "news"papers available is stretching things......

and with my members hat on,

So, back on topic, was it all an insurance scam? And if they are trying that on, why did they have so much cash & jewellery just lying arouind. And would any self respecting insurer throw it out becuase it wasn't locked away in a safe and / or not insured for such things?


----------



## Hobbyfan

sallytrafic said:


> I only buy one paper and that is Saturday's Guardian which lasts me to mid-week.


As your paper of choice is the Guardian then why am I surprised that you don't like the Mail, a perfectly natural outcome I would think?

I get back to the same point. Typical Guardian readers traducing Mail readers whom they think are intellectually inferior, when in fact the only difference is their political stance.

I think that socialism, espoused by many Guardian readers, is an appalling system but they're welcome to believe in it and I will not criticise their organ of choice.

But of course to some of you, Mail readers are xenophobic fascists who are slightly to the right of Adolf Hitler, when in fact all they are is a representative slice of middle-England.

Leave them alone for God's sake, they're not coming on here every five minutes attacking the Guardian and the Mirror.


----------



## bognormike

Hobbyfan said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I only buy one paper and that is Saturday's Guardian which lasts me to mid-week.
> 
> 
> 
> As your paper of choice is the Guardian then why am I surprised that you don't like the Mail, a perfectly natural outcome I would think?
> 
> I get back to the same point. Typical Guardian readers traducing Mail readers whom they think are intellectually inferior, when in fact the only difference is their political stance.
> 
> I think that socialism, espoused by many Guardian readers, is an appalling system but they're welcome to believe in it and I will not criticise their organ of choice.
> 
> But of course to some of you, Mail readers are xenophobic fascists who are slightly to the right of Adolf Hitler, when in fact all they are is a representative slice of middle-England.
> 
> Leave them alone for God's sake, they're not coming on here every five minutes attacking the Guardian and the Mirror.
Click to expand...

Hello HF - as your post was a minute after mine, I will assume you didn't see it - please take note???


----------



## Hobbyfan

bognormike said:


> Hello HF - as your post was a minute after mine, I will assume you didn't see it - please take note???


Correct, they crossed in the post! or is that in the Mail?


----------



## aultymer

> Correct, they crossed in the post! or is that in the Mail?


Nice one!


----------



## foll-de-roll

Annsman said:


> I'm more worried that someone who believes these stories has been given a licence for a vehicle to drive it on the roads! How low has your inteligence got to be to even THINK they might be serious?
> 
> I've had two people on separate camp sites warn me about using aires or free camping abroad because of being gassed. My reply of "Absolute Bo***cks, only believed by half wits and the mentally ill." Usually ends any further waste of my life listening to them!
> 
> Yet I find reading about them on here and replying NOT such a waste. That surely says more about me than them, I suppose. Who knows? You decide, answers on a postcard!


Hi

I would like to thank Annsman for providing the answer to the age old problem on Campsites, that, of getting trapped by some ignorrant old knowitall, usually in the washing up area, who once he gets your attention, bends your ear, for half an hour without coming up for breath.

I shall now bring up the subject of," Gassing" and he will probably, storm off muttering"Absolute ********, that's only believed by half wits and the mentally"

Perfect, I have been looking for the answer to this problem for years.

Thank you Annsman for your pearls of wisdom

Andy


----------



## Hobbyfan

Getting back on topic, yes, I'm convinced that it's an insurance scam.

Perhaps they were genuinely robbed whilst they slept. Perhaps the silly woman did leave £50K worth of jewellery and cash lying around but she knows full well that the insurers will take a dim view of the goods being left in plain sight, so she cobbles up this nonsense to take blame from herself.

I get back to my earlier point. How did the thieves know that the valuables weren't in a safe? If I were a thief, targeting rich people's homes I'd simply wade in, herd them into one room and force them to give me the combination. They can't do that if they're unconscious!

I'd also like to know of these dentists who are having their nitrous oxide stolen. Has there been one recorded incident? Somehow, I think we'd have heard.

And to introduce enough of it through a letterbox so that it goes through the entire house and creeps upstairs into all the bedrooms?

I suspect that the tanker of gas needed might have aroused suspicion!

And people believe it!


----------



## sallytrafic

Ok my two pennyworth on editorial bias. The Telegraph (aka Torygraph) which I once bought every day would IMO be a far better newspaper if it kept its editorial and owners prejudices to editorial and comment pages. I think it is a seriously good newspaper but it seems to me that after they write a good story someone comes and needlessly coats it in bias. Whether that is to keep the Barclay brothers happy or to pander to a certain jingoistic element in its readership I don't know.

The Guardian is left of centre BUT in comparison to the telegraph its bias is kept in check largely until the editorial pages start about 2/3rds through the paper. Readers have the benefit of a readers editor who has considerable powers. It's he that acts as the focus for all complaints and corrections, he monitors news and choice of stories for bias as well as the more prosaic tasks of picking up poor grammar and spelling (The tagging of it by Private Eye as the Gruaniard - still hurts in some quarters).

Incidentally the first comment page you get in the Guardian is Simon Hoggart's political column - anti-just about everything in New Labour and Old Labour - the only left wing politician that I have ever read him giving an easy time to was Roy Hattersley and that is I suspect because he respects Hattersley as an historical novel writer. He's quite fond of some senior Tories. Having him in the Guardian is the equivalent of Polly Tonybee or Dawn Primarola writing leaders for the Times or Telegraph. How he's going to be now the coalition are in power remains to be seen but in the last few weeks he's been getting quite entertaining about them 

.....and back on topic, until someone tests positive for gas inhalation after a robbery (and all the usual narcotics still show up in the blood some days after use) then I won't believe its even been attempted. I don't say that there never will be an undetectable narcotic gas or a substance capable of 'safely' putting people under (I always thought the so called date rape behavioural altering substances good candidates), but its not in the here and now.

The point raised that one day someone will try chloroform or easystart having read about it on a forum or in a paper and kill people is perhaps a justifiable reason for people buying alarms. Its a bit difficult though to design an effective alarm if you don't know what to detect.


----------



## bognormike

sallytrafic said:


> Ok my two pennyworth on editorial bias. The Telegraph (aka Torygraph) which I once bought every day would IMO be a far better newspaper if it kept its editorial and owners prejudices to editorial and comment pages. I think it is a seriously good newspaper but it seems to me that after they write a good story someone comes and needlessly coats it in bias. Whether that is to keep the Barclay brothers happy or to pander to a certain jingoistic element in its readership I don't know.
> 
> The Guardian is left of centre BUT in comparison to the telegraph its bias is kept in check largely until the editorial pages start about 2/3rds through the paper. Readers have the benefit of a readers editor who has considerable powers. It's he that acts as the focus for all complaints and corrections, he monitors news and choice of stories for bias as well as the more prosaic tasks of picking up poor grammar and spelling (The tagging of it by Private Eye as the Gruaniard - still hurts in some quarters).
> 
> Incidentally the first comment page you get in the Guardian is Simon Hoggart's political column - anti-just about everything in New Labour and Old Labour - the only left wing politician that I have ever read him giving an easy time to was Roy Hattersley and that is I suspect because he respects Hattersley as an historical novel writer. He's quite fond of some senior Tories. Having him in the Guardian is the equivalent of Polly Tonybee or Dawn Primarola writing leaders for the Times or Telegraph. How he's going to be now the coalition are in power remains to be seen but in the last few weeks he's been getting quite entertaining about them
> 
> .....and back on topic, until someone tests positive for gas inhalation after a robbery (and all the usual narcotics still show up in the blood some days after use) then I won't believe its even been attempted. I don't say that there never will be an undetectable narcotic gas or a substance capable of 'safely' putting people under (I always thought the so called date rape behavioural altering substances good candidates), but its not in the here and now.
> 
> The point raised that one day someone will try chloroform or easystart having read about it on a forum or in a paper and kill people is perhaps a justifiable reason for people buying alarms. Its a bit difficult though to design an effective alarm if you don't know what to detect.


ahem

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-894719.html#894719

:roll:


----------



## sallytrafic

bognormike said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok my two pennyworth on editorial bias. The Telegraph (aka Torygraph) which I once bought every day would IMO be a far better newspaper if it kept its editorial and owners prejudices to editorial and comment pages. I think it is a seriously good newspaper but it seems to me that after they write a good story someone comes and needlessly coats it in bias. Whether that is to keep the Barclay brothers happy or to pander to a certain jingoistic element in its readership I don't know.
> 
> The Guardian is left of centre BUT in comparison to the telegraph its bias is kept in check largely until the editorial pages start about 2/3rds through the paper. Readers have the benefit of a readers editor who has considerable powers. It's he that acts as the focus for all complaints and corrections, he monitors news and choice of stories for bias as well as the more prosaic tasks of picking up poor grammar and spelling (The tagging of it by Private Eye as the Gruaniard - still hurts in some quarters).
> 
> Incidentally the first comment page you get in the Guardian is Simon Hoggart's political column - anti-just about everything in New Labour and Old Labour - the only left wing politician that I have ever read him giving an easy time to was Roy Hattersley and that is I suspect because he respects Hattersley as an historical novel writer. He's quite fond of some senior Tories. Having him in the Guardian is the equivalent of Polly Tonybee or Dawn Primarola writing leaders for the Times or Telegraph. How he's going to be now the coalition are in power remains to be seen but in the last few weeks he's been getting quite entertaining about them
> 
> .....and back on topic, until someone tests positive for gas inhalation after a robbery (and all the usual narcotics still show up in the blood some days after use) then I won't believe its even been attempted. I don't say that there never will be an undetectable narcotic gas or a substance capable of 'safely' putting people under (I always thought the so called date rape behavioural altering substances good candidates), but its not in the here and now.
> 
> The point raised that one day someone will try chloroform or easystart having read about it on a forum or in a paper and kill people is perhaps a justifiable reason for people buying alarms. Its a bit difficult though to design an effective alarm if you don't know what to detect.
> 
> 
> 
> ahem
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-894719.html#894719
> 
> :roll:
Click to expand...

Sorry but a post like that one doesn't just take two minutes to write especially as in the middle I found it necessary to make a coffee and read some more of all the papers, including skimming the scientific press in case someone has come up with a new breed of narcotics so I didn't see your moderating post.

I don't normally take 2 hours like that one did


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## Zebedee

Well, I think you are all missing the most important point! 8O

I'd like to congratulate the gassing criminals for their community spirit and sense of responsibility.

_*Never once (to my knowledge) have they ever left behind an empty cylinder!!*_

They always tidy up and take their rubbish home, which I think is exemplary. 

Shame on you lot for running them down!!

Dave :lol:

Obvious serious point in there too! :wink:


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## Hobbyfan

Zebedee said:


> Shame on you lot for running them down!!


You swine, you've made me feel really guilty now. Maybe Albanian/Romanian gangs have a deep sense of civic responsibility. I shall look on them in a more kindly light in future.

Although, in view of the enormous amount of nitrous oxide that it would take to flood a house through the letter-box, has it not occurred to you that they must deliver it by tanker, which of course they then drive away?

Silly boy!


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## blacksville

tonyt said:


> Oh goody - a gas attack thread - It's been so long since the last.
> 
> has anyone thought about gas leaks,such carbon monxide.the silent killer.did you read about the 2 young men in n.ireland that died from it.i would suggest everyone should a detector in there van.that will solve both broblems. blackie


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## Annsman

I'd best clarify my remarks in case people think I'm some sort of ranter who stalks campsites looking for people to verbally attack!

If someone, during a conversation or request for advice about touring in their van, mentions "gas attacks", I explain the facts and reassure them it's quite safe out there providing you take common sense measures to protect their family and possesions. I tell them there are vans that get broken in to and some people, a very small minority, do get robbed. I explain how in the real world why it would be impossible to gas anyone in a motorhome by introducing any sort of gas into their van. I tell them we've travelled extensively in France, Spain and Italy in our van and have NEVER met anyone "gassing" has happened to.

However, if someone comes up to me and tells me quite openly that they know of people who have been gassed and it is dangerous to use aires, freecamp or non-official sites because of the risk of being robbed and gassed by gangs of criminals, THAT'S when I resort to questioning their intelligence and motives.

Three people have infact done the latter, one was a site assistant for one of the major clubs, the other two had never left the UK but were adamant it happens all the time. I don't apologise for confronting them and ridiculing their intelligence, or other people like them, because I believe they are stopping others from getting the full enjoyment from this hobby of ours. 

I love being in my van and can't think of a better thing I could be doing to see the world outside and would hate to have been frightened or put off from seeing the things I've seen, going to the places I've been to or meeting the people from all nationalities, by idiots and liars.


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## mandyandandy

Hi, 

Just wondered why no one has mentioned the discrimination taking place here. 

Why is it just Motorhomes these people target, do they not see that caravans have a lot less outlets and the gas would be held in longer. 
Or is someone going to come back and tell me that is because most of them are Hobby owners themselves :lol: :lol: 

Sounds like a huge scam to me and makes you wonder where the insurance people go for their information.

Mandy


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## asprn

The other thing that's been largely overlooked in the article posted by the OP, is the needle marks in the lad's arm:-

_"Her eight-year-old, Robbie, had a needle mark on his arm, and he had to be tested for HIV"_

The mother then goes on (and on, and on) to talk about how scared she was/how much they'd had stolen etc. etc. However, no further mention by her of the possibility of her 8-yr-old son having been infected with HIV AIDS. It takes up to *6 months* to obtain a reliable result; having had ex-colleagues stabbed with drug-users' needles, I can tell you that the fear and worry involved during their wait, is virtually unbearable for the victim and their family. However, this lady says:-

_"We believe that after we went to bed, burglars gassed us through the letterbox but there wasn't enough to do the whole house and Robbie woke up"_
So she demonstrates no concern about her son/to hell with anything else etc.. Also note the key word "*believe*". Separating what a person believes from evidence, is the first step towards finding out the facts. She offers no evidence, and there's no surprise there considering what she has to gain in terms of an insurance payout.

I really like this next bit:-

*'The police didn't really react, they just took a statement and they wouldn't confirm we had been gassed.'*
Well HELLO - how surprising. :roll: She clearly asked them to confirm they'd been gassed (I wonder why....) and she protesteth that they haven't (I wonder why....).

Then she goes on to say, "Oh yeah, and by the way, my son may still be infected with HIV AIDS". Oops, no, sorry, she doesn't in fact say that, does she.

Let's move on.

:roll:

Dougie.


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## Hobbyfan

mandyandandy said:


> Why is it just Motorhomes these people target... Or is someone going to come back and tell me that is because most of them are Hobby owners themselves :lol: :lol:
> Mandy


You little minx!


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## skiboycey

Dougie

Thanks for that fantastic insight into the thought process of a police officer. I'm immensely impressed by the clear reasoning.

As I'm a bit older now I don't often find myself in situations where I need to fib to police officers but looking at your very intelligent and insightful analysis of the story I'm very glad about this! Most of us would be caught out after one paragraph!

I agree very much with your assessment. What is very frustrating is that the French Police could easily work this out just as well as you have but they will do absolutely nothing to investigate what could, after all, be an 80,000 pound fraud crime which we all pay for in our own increased insurance premiums. Living in France I have a lot of experience of these pompous idiots who seem to manage to be around in force every time you don't want or need them there but can't manage to prosecute a thief who I've caught red-handed stealing from one of my clients in my hotel and instead threaten to nick me for locking the guy up till they arrive! Clouseau seemed efficient compared to most of them I deal with.

Incidentally, as I've posted before, we ran an experiment in our hotel where I 'robbed' the staff rooms at 3 am to see why clients sometimes got burgled whilst sleeping. The rather depressing result was that people sleep a lot more soundly than they think (especially after a drink) and that you can actually crash around, trip over stuff and generally be quite sloppy in your robbery and nobody will wake up as long as you don't turn on the lights, especially if you do it between 3 and 5 am. 

As I've also posted before dogs wake easily, are noisy and most of the thieving scumbags I've ever caught are sh*t scared of them. So buy one, a big one preferably, and you'll be more or less safe wherever you decide to stay... We live for 6 months a year in our van, all over Europe and seldom in campsites or official places and we've never had a problem. We do, however, have a very big, very loud and very grumpy dog!

Cheers, Mark


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## Sonesta

Zebedee said:


> Well, I think you are all missing the most important point! 8O
> 
> I'd like to congratulate the gassing criminals for their community spirit and sense of responsibility.
> 
> _*Never once (to my knowledge) have they ever left behind an empty cylinder!!*_
> 
> They always tidy up and take their rubbish home, which I think is exemplary.
> 
> Shame on you lot for running them down!!
> 
> Dave :lol:
> 
> Obvious serious point in there too! :wink:





asprn said:


> The other thing that's been largely overlooked in the article posted by the OP, is the needle marks in the lad's arm:-
> 
> _"Her eight-year-old, Robbie, had a needle mark on his arm, and he had to be tested for HIV"_
> 
> The mother then goes on (and on, and on) to talk about how scared she was/how much they'd had stolen etc. etc. However, no further mention by her of the possibility of her 8-yr-old son having been infected with HIV AIDS. It takes up to *6 months* to obtain a reliable result; having had ex-colleagues stabbed with drug-users' needles, I can tell you that the fear and worry involved during their wait, is virtually unbearable for the victim and their family. However, this lady says:-
> 
> _"We believe that after we went to bed, burglars gassed us through the letterbox but there wasn't enough to do the whole house and Robbie woke up"_
> So she demonstrates no concern about her son/to hell with anything else etc.. Also note the key word "*believe*". Separating what a person believes from evidence, is the first step towards finding out the facts. She offers no evidence, and there's no surprise there considering what she has to gain in terms of an insurance payout.
> 
> I really like this next bit:-
> 
> *'The police didn't really react, they just took a statement and they wouldn't confirm we had been gassed.'*
> Well HELLO - how surprising. :roll: She clearly asked them to confirm they'd been gassed (I wonder why....) and she protesteth that they haven't (I wonder why....).
> 
> Then she goes on to say, "Oh yeah, and by the way, my son may still be infected with HIV AIDS". Oops, no, sorry, she doesn't in fact say that, does she.
> 
> Let's move on.
> 
> :roll:
> 
> Dougie.


It's clear and concise theories and analogies such as the ones Dougie and Dave are making here, that make absolute sense! Why because it allows the ordinary and uneducated in the field of science reader, to see the absurdity of such 'claims' and thus helps them to put such 'claims' into perspective. Posts like this really do help to allay the fears, doubts, concerns and phobias of many intelligent yet 'gullible' people and it's these posts that really help to put their minds at rest!

Well done Dougie and Dave - it's your type of posts that certainly get my vote! :thumbright:

Sue


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## SpeedyDux

We may understand the scientific reason why it is totally impractical to use gas to subdue the occupants of a motorhome and stop them waking up, but we are better informed. Perhaps it is expecting too much of the unsophisticated scumbag robbers who could be using gassing as part of their MO, that they should understand the science and realise it is futile.

My explanation is along the lines of: If Monsieur Voleur had emptied (say) a small Campingaz cylinder into the vents of a MH, and the occupants didn't wake up when he smashed the door lock, Monsieur Voleur might assume that the butane gas had something to do with it. Then Monsieur Voleur might do the same thing again the next time he robs a MH at night. Gas again, just to help ensure the occupants did not wake up. How would Monsieur Voleur know that putting gas into a MH was pointless? His expereince is that the victims sayed asleep. 

If Monsieur Voleur was arrested, you can imagine a scenario in which he might confess to the Gendarmes that he had tried to gas his victims. The Gendarmes put out a press release including a reference to gassing. The press love it. A myth is born. :lol: :lol: :lol: 


SD


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## Zebedee

I refer a good many honourable members to my earlier question. :wink: 

Where are all the empties? :roll: 

Science and the Royal College of Anaesthetists aside, I just don't believe that Monsieur, Herr or Signor Scumbag would tidy up after themselves and take their rubbish home.

Not every single one of them during the past however-many-years!! :roll: 

A simple observation, but pretty relevant I would suggest. :? 

Dave


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## passionwagon

*Gassing and Insurance*

8O Lots of wisdom from the regulars-very good to see. 
How about this for insurance claims. A number of years ago my company held a number of overseas events for important customers- work and play. I was the collator for all insurance claims and all cameras 'lost' 20+ were the very latest SLR together with all lenses and flash units. More than 5 watches- all 18ct gold . One female claimed her new designer wardrobe had been left in the rain on the airfield-she said she saw it fom the plane, but only told us when in the hotel 4 hours later. Interestingly no other traveller had wet cases! Needless to say the insurance company took charge and wanted receipts etc-no more was heard. 
Some people are so greedy and the more they have the more they want. :roll:


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## parkmoy

From the letters page of Septembers Motor Caravanner, letter entitled 
"Beware of Gas Attacks when visiting France"

"As I looked towards my husband, I could see a large green canister being pushed through the window, and in that instance I could smell anaesthetic"

The letter talks about an attempted entry to the MH near Uzes, 30 miles north of Nimes and speculates that the culprits were eastern European itinerant harvest workers.


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## Zebedee

One presumes the large green canister was dropped as the villains ran off . . . and is being analysed as I type!! :roll: 

Dave


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## asprn

parkmoy said:


> "As I looked towards my husband, I could see a large green canister being pushed through the window, and in that instance I could smell anaesthetic"


That would be one of those 13.5kg butane cylinders. They can kill, especially if it fell on his head. :lol:

Dougie.


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## barryd

parkmoy said:


> From the letters page of Septembers Motor Caravanner, letter entitled
> "Beware of Gas Attacks when visiting France"
> 
> "As I looked towards my husband, I could see a large green canister being pushed through the window, and in that instance I could smell anaesthetic"
> 
> The letter talks about an attempted entry to the MH near Uzes, 30 miles north of Nimes and speculates that the culprits were eastern European itinerant harvest workers.


Oh well thats is then, we are all going to die!! Think I will sleep outside the motorhome tonight. Ah but wait a minute. I will be safe, I will be staying just outside Blackpool in good old safe England. No chance of any nasty crime here not like France where its clearly the most dangerous place this side of Kabul.


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## asprn

barryd said:


> ...its clearly the most dangerous place this side of Kabul.


That's a very Afghan-ist statement. 8O 

Dougie.


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## Zebedee

asprn said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...its clearly the most dangerous place this side of Kabul.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a very Afghan-ist statement. 8O
> 
> Dougie.
Click to expand...

No Dougie . . . it's a load of Kabul-locks! :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## parkmoy

Missed this bit when reading the letter;-

"We slept with our friends that night, taking our documents and valuables with us. In the morning we reported it to the local police in Uzes, our friend acting as an interpreter. They weren't unduly concerned, saying that it's happening all the time"

Go to France at your peril :roll:


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## locovan

It must be laughing gas as Im laughing away at you three
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Zebedee

parkmoy said:


> "We slept with our friends that night . . .


Well - this has to be the best excuse yet for a spot of wife swapping! 8O :lol:



parkmoy said:


> Go to France at your peril :roll:


My only regret is I'm too old to enjoy its recently discovered pleasures!  

Dave :lol:


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## asprn

parkmoy said:


> "We slept with our friends that night


What's French for _Menage-a-trois_?



parkmoy said:


> In the morning we reported it to the local police in Uzes...


No point in being unduly hasty about these things, eh.



parkmoy said:


> [The Police]weren't unduly concerned, saying that it's happening all the time"


Indeed. Brits do seem to be doing this regularly.

Anyway, missed the best joke of all:- *They must have been in Scotland, not France, if the Police were in uzes...* :lol: :lol: :lol: <ahem>

(Explanation >> here <<)

Dougie.


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## parkmoy

I'm surprised at you Dougie, you seem to be just as blase about this as the local gendarmerie were.

One expects better from the British Police.


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## erneboy

I assume that since the occupation of the guilty parties is known they must have been apprehended and questioned or at least identified. Therefore it follows that there was or will be a court case where all the details will emerge and we can look forward to press coverage of the facts.

Or else it's just more ********, Alan.


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## Zebedee

erneboy said:


> I assume that since the occupation of the guilty parties is known they must have been apprehended and questioned or at least identified. Therefore it follows that there was or will be a court case where all the details will emerge and we can look forward to press coverage of the facts.
> 
> Or else it's just more b*&^%cks, Alan.


Hope it's not in "Le Mail du Jour" though Alan. 8O

Dave :lol: :lol:


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## asprn

parkmoy said:


> I'm surprised at you Dougie, you seem to be just as blase about this as the local gendarmerie were


"Good morning sah, and wot 'ave we 'ere then? Gas, you say, eh? Right then sah, we'll just take out our pencil and take down some partikoolars. But just before I do that sah, I will look up this new-fangled manual-thingy and turn to page four, where it says that I must under all circumstances appear concerned and sympathetic despite the evidence being utterly to the contrary, sah. And of course there is a smell, sah, but I'm note so sure it's gas, sah..."

etc. etc. etc.



parkmoy said:


> One expects better from the British Police


Does one? I think you missed the *<sniff>* at the end.


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## Grizzly

I'm as much of a cynic as most on the subject of organised gang gas attacks of the sort we were always being warned about and have made this clear in the umpteen posts I have made up to now in different threads.

BUT, reading some recent reports, I wonder if there is not a new group of rather desperate young men who have listened to the usual stories, see MHs as an easy target and are trying all sorts of silly methods to try and anaesthetise the owners before robbing them ? 

I would hope that police come to each reported case with an open mind but somehow I doubt it and I imagine they just shrug, fill in the forms and hope the person who reported it will go away and claim on their insurance and leave them alone. This is what we are all doing as well.

I'm perfectly certain that there is no unknown-to-medicine anaesthetic gas that leaves people alive but unconscious, is undetectable next day and does not cause explosions with the naked flame of a fridge. There are however lots of aerosol cans that young criminals can get hold of that they might try to temporarily disable MH -or car- occupants.

Just a thought....

G


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## parkmoy

Being serious for a moment. The letter about the incident comes over as very genuine or else it is written by a clever journalist. The author gives verifiable facts such as the report to the Police and a later report to Swift congratulating them on the design of the MH door which withstood what appeared to be an attack by a crowbar or similar.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that gas WAS involved, but I feel sure that the author does believe what she is saying.


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## parkmoy

> Does one? I think you missed the <sniff> at the end.


Quite correct, old boy, I did. Now start behaving like a proper BRITISH bobby will you and not one of these foreign jonnies.


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## max0603

Why would thieves target motorhomes? Surely the thousands of HGV's parked up with millions of pounds of goods would be a better target. Also HGV's are normally single drivers where as MH could contain any amount of people/dogs :roll:


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## parkmoy

> Why would thieves target motorhomes? Surely the thousands of HGV's parked up with millions of pounds of goods would be a better target. Also HGV's are normally single drivers where as MH could contain any amount of people/dogs


Not too many scum bags have the contacts to get rid of high value loads but passports, cash, computers etc found in MH's are easy to dispose of for ready cash.


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## asprn

parkmoy said:


> Now start behaving like a proper BRITISH bobby will you and not one of these foreign jonnies.


Or in my case, a proper ex-British Bobby. :lol: I am behaving exactly like one of those. 

I must say though that I've never been called a jonny before. 8O

Dougie.


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## pippin

Have I missed something Dougie?

When did you hand in your night stick?


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## asprn

pippin said:


> Have I missed something Dougie? When did you hand in your night stick?


When I wore it out. :lol: Actually on the eve of my 55th birthday (99th in MHF years...) over a month ago.

Strange thing, but apart from the RV engine still being mechanically damaged caused by an error by the garage it was having routine maintenance in (in JUNE....) and having had to cancel two trips so far, retirement's quite good.

Dougie.


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## trevd01

Thanks for all that have contributed to this thread. I have just read all 14 pages (so far). :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I am almost ashamed our Murvi came with a gas alarm as standard, but it will detect Carbon Monoxide, too, and no doubt if our LPG tank sprang a leak...

Keep em coming... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## DTPCHEMICALS

I read the article and was amused not to see a photo of the canister. :wink: 


Dave p


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## asprn

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> I read the article and was amused not to see a photo of the canister. :wink:


Such a cynic. :roll:

Dougie.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sorry m`lud, no evidence to present.


Dave p :wink:


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