# Plumbing help needed (URGENT)



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Woke up at 5am to the sound of dripping water. Turns out the cold water or header tank is overflowing. Water spilling out the top of the tank in the immersion heater cupboard all over the floor and through the ceiling to downstairs. Turned everything off and started scooping water out with a pan. Im guessing either the overflow pipe is blocked or there is something else wrong in there. The overflow pipe has often leaked a bit for years to the outside and into the garden. Good timing huh?  having to leave it off at the stopcock now so no running cold water.

I guess all I can do is ring round and see if any plumbers are working.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It'll be a combination of a faulty ball cock, the cut off operated by a float, like in the cistern of a toilet and a blocked or faulty overflow.

Often there's a shut off valve on the pipe going to the ball cock. See if there is and turn it off there. Also as long as the washer in the ball cock isn'r ferked you may be able to pull the rod the float is attached to upwards and put a stick under it to wedge it up or bang a nail into a rafter and tie it to that. If your tank is covered the cover should come off easily enough, older ones often aren't. I'm guessing yours may not be since you can see that the water is overflowing?


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sounds like you are right Baz. Either a simple blockage of the overflow or the ball-cock arrangement faulty. And by the sounds of it the ball-cock has been the problem before it's the likely culprit.
If it's anything like the ball-cock or float valve in the toilet cistern it's simple and cheap to change. I keep spares of course.!!! But this also assumes you can get access to the top of the tank.

At the first sign of it overflowing before you should have planned for this moment. The overflow can probably be poked clear with some 'swish' flexible curtain wire. We regularly use it to clean out the shower drains.

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its incredibly hard to get at. I have noticed in the past if you try and bend the wire the ball cock is on upwards its stops it hissing away and leaking water out the overflow. Yes I should have had it looked at some time ago.

Ill just have to try and get a plumber. Its pointless me looking at it really. I dont have a swish wire whatever the feck that is.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It's not so popular now but https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Window-N...653203?hash=item2efc9d2713:g:I2MAAOSwzvlW9Sqc

We always got spares.!!!

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Had a good rake round in the cupboard and the tank, cant find anything to turn off.

Im not even sure if this tank feeds the cold or the hot. Hot taps are still working, I turned the stop valve off downstairs which is an instant feed to the cold taps and they went off straight away so this must feed the hot taps. 

Will start ringing plumbers at 8am


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Downstairs cold tap in the kitchen should be connected to the incoming main, not supplied from the tank in the roof space. If you want to stop the leak open an upstairs cold tap to reduce the level in the tank. Just run some off to lower the level in the tank.

If you can bend the rod on the ball cock why can't you wedge or tie it up?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

barryd said:


> Had a good rake round in the cupboard and the tank, cant find anything to turn off.
> 
> Im not even sure if this tank feeds the cold or the hot. Hot taps are still working, I turned the stop valve off downstairs which is an instant feed to the cold taps and they went off straight away so this must feed the hot taps.
> 
> Will start ringing plumbers at 8am


 As a lady lay I didn´t do too badly with my fruit answer did I :grin2:
Don´t keep using hot water if it isn´t being replenished, turn orf the leclic like wot I said or you'll drain the tank and burn out the wossaname, that hot thing that heats the water.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

If some foreign body has found it's way into the valve washer, no amount of float adjustment will stop the flow. Sometimes pushing the float right down to allow a good gush can sometimes clear it but rarely.

I think these all in one units that were fitted to 60s homes (and later) were a tight fit to the cupboard and almost need changing entirely to service.
The idea of a header tank has just about been done away with now. Too many problems.!!

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Downstairs cold tap in the kitchen should be connected to the incoming main, not supplied from the tank in the roof space. If you want to stop the leak open an upstairs cold tap to reduce the level in the tank. Just run some off to lower the level in the tank.
> 
> If you can bend the rod on the ball cock why can't you wedge or tie it up?


Well whatever I have done there is now no water going into the tank. Cold taps do not work since I turned off the stop cock. Hot taps do but presumably somehow take their feed from this tank which will eventually run dry unless I turn the stop cock back on?

Bending the rod and ball cock up and securing it is going to be difficult as the plastered ceiling comes down at an angle over it about a foot above the top.

Ive taken some photos of the cupboard and the inside of the tank by leaning in with the camera. Its the first time ive seen inside. Jeeesaz! Its fecking digusting!

The tank is just above the immersion heater pictured below





































Phoned four plumbers so far, no answer.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, the shut off valve looks very corroded and probably past repair. A new one is only a tenner but replacing it could be a nightmare.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plastic-...hash=item416d8ba81a:m:m9OkgRxwNhXAkzBzmxSxGOw

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Look on the internet for emergency plumbers in your area Barry, there must be one. If not ring the fire brigade and ask if they know of anyone.
There must surely be emergency cover for all the services.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Put a stick or brush shaft across the top of the tank and tie the ball cock up to that. Then you can turn the water on again and see if the ball cock being tied up has stopped it running.

If so you can release it as needed to refill the tank, so that you have water as normal, then tie it up again till next time you need to refill..


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Does your household insurance company have recommended repairers. Is a leak covered by the insurance? They usually are. Just say you have a leak and need a plumber. They may help.


----------



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Your cock valve is buggered by the look of the photo Baz. I expect you knew that anyway, it's an age thing.:laugh:

Seriously though on the other photo there are 2 zone valves, one screw driver turned and one gate valve with the circular handle. If the plumber can't come immediately one of those will I am sure will stop the water going into the tank. You can then turn the stop tap back on and at least have cold water. I'd try the screwdriver one first.

Dick


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Well spotted Dick. I didn't see the screwdriver one. That does look to be it.


----------



## dalspa (Jul 1, 2008)

Barry.
Firstly check to see if the valve will close. Run some water off so that the ball is hanging clear of the water. Turn the stoptap on and then lift the ball up to see if the valve is working ie stopping the water coming into the tank. If it does stop the flow then you may be able to bend the arm down slightly or loosen the screw and move the ball down. Likely that the valve is limescaled up thereby preventing it from seating properly. Needs either stripping down and cleaning up putting in a new rubber washer, or replacing. All a relatively easy diy job, but not for you -you will only end up breaking it. As already stated , the overflow is also blocked.
Unfortunately with the header tank being out of sight nobody tends to look at it until a problem occurs, been there myself many times!


----------



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

Baz you only need to turn the screwdriver valve 90 dogs so that the slot is at a right angle to the pipe


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice. I have found a plumber and he will be here mid morning. Phoned loads and no response and no call back so far. This is not unusual up here at the best of times.

I think its best I leave it to the experts as he is going to have to investigate the blocked overflow anyway I guess. Like the idea of the broom handle though to tie the ball cock up with. Thats genius that is. Not quite as good as fixing the motorhome water system on christmas day all those years ago with Biro tops but pretty close.


----------



## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

morning all


baz can you give us a photo of behind the tank so that we can see the connection to the ball valve


looking at the angle that the arm has been bent to i would say that the washer inside the valve is buggered

if you follow the pipe down you should come to one of the tap/shutoff valve that dick suggested and shut it off if possible


what can happen when the ball valve leaks bad it that the overflow cannot cope with the amount of water that the ball valve is passing 

if you have a piece if stiff wire you could try pushing it down the overflow to clear any blockage

at a push once you have shut off the valve that supplies the water to the ball valve you can then turn on the water at the stop cock

a small dribble should go down the overflo fine


good luck

barry


----------



## KeithChesterfield (Mar 12, 2010)

barryd said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I have found a plumber and he will be here mid morning. Phoned loads and no response and no call back so far. This is not unusual up here at the best of times.
> 
> .


When the Plumber turns up, looks at the system and starts shaking his head and gives at least three 'tuts' then you know your bank balance is going to suffer.

Subs on Fruitcakes look as though they may increase ......

:nerd:


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Barry. I cannot find any shut off valve. Tried to take a photo round the back but its very cramped. I dont think there is anything there.

Anyway hopefully the plumber will sort it all now.


----------



## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

The overflow pipe is probably blocked by a family of brexit gremlins taking up residence in it and you will need a high court order to remove them


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Hopefully by now thevplumber will have arrived, done the three sharp intakes of breath as Jan so correctly mentioned and changed the ballcock valve. For a plumber that is an easy task but, of course three sharp intakes of breath = expensive and then there is the call out fee during the time of national emergency.......

He also of course, must cover his expenses for at least the next month so a £15 valve will probably end up about 30 x as expensive...... 😪

But I do hope that I am wrong in my denigration of plumbers - my son in law was an apprentice served plumber but is now a hospital manager - I am not sure if the two careers are in any way related but.... 🤣A

Do let us know, hopefully you will not need your water wings....

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/fr-FR/p/tx-Ohs-Water-Wings-Package-m/1382470?lang=fr-FR


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

All sorted. Smashing bloke. He did explain what it was but I cant remember.  Could have been some valve or summat. Anyway its no longer hissing or bubbling. He did have a look at the overflow outside and it seems at some point my neighbour added a bit of pipe to direct the flow away from his roof where it actually comes out onto and over onto our guttering. Looks like the bit of pipe he added has split and somehow crushed the original pipe that came from our house. Its been done that way as ours is the bigger house and there is just one single story section of his house attached to ours. What it needs is all new piping putting in and feeding down into our drains. Anyway he thinks its ok now but he cant put in the proper piping at the moment as they are not supposed to be doing jobs that carry risk like climbing about on roofs. It will wait. anyway it shouldnt over flow now.

He also pointed out that the silver valve below is a shut off valve so I could just turn that screw flat and it would stop the water going into the header.

Dave. I dont care how much it costs. After scrabbling around at 5am going "WTF am I going to do over and over again" and thinking there would be no plumbers Im just chuffed its fixed and happy to support a local business striving to carry on and help people.

Valve here


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I would still carry a spare Ball cock just in case.:grin2:

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I´d get it up to date with direct from mains water, your drinking water from that tank


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

barryd said:


> He also pointed out that the silver valve below is a shut off valve so I could just turn that screw flat and it would stop the water going into the header.
> 
> Valve here


Ferk! Dick told you that, you tit.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> At the first sign of it overflowing before you should have planned for this moment.
> 
> Ray.


I think I detect a little dig there for all Barry's comments about your problems with tech Ray - hahaha!!


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Only a little Jean. Gaffer tape can't fix everything.

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

It has to be said, if it dont have a screen or strings then its all alien to me and of no interest.


----------



## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi baz

i would have a little talk with your neighbor it could have been expensive had you been away for a little while


barry


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

powerplus said:


> hi baz
> 
> i would have a little talk with your neighbor it could have been expensive had you been away for a little while
> 
> barry


Its more my fault than his though. He told me about the overflow drip yonks ago and me being me I just ignored it. Just thought it was normal I guess but at some point he put the pipe in, probably sick of it dripping off the front of his house. Whatever has happened to the pipe with it splitting and blocking the original overflow has caused the issue but had I realised what an issue it might have been i might have done something about it earlier. Our neighbours are great on both sides but this one is down to me really.

Lesson learned. Dont ignore pluming issues. Ill turn that valve off though regardless next time we go anywhere.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Your lucky Baz, I would have bunged the pipe up if it was dripping onto my side with poly foam.

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Nice Ray 

Anyway it seems this guy is a good egg and not taking advantage. Just had the bill. £45 all in. Paid it instantly with a recommendation on the local Facebook group help page.

Almost feel guilty, he was here an hour and a half.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Certainly sounds like a dec not bloke and an efficient plumber, I am really pleased that my pessimism as regards the bill proved to be a factor of 10 out, £45 for 1 1/2 h work is a decent price and wth no call out fee bunged in top, that is a name to put on your wall for if / when something similar occurs again.

At least it's sorted and you can relax a bit and look to sorting out any issues it has caused. I feel a paint brush session may be needed once it has all dried out......

Good luck !


----------



## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Penquin said:


> Certainly sounds like a dec not bloke and an efficient plumber, I am really pleased that my pessimism as regards the bill proved to be a factor of 10 out, £45 for 1 1/2 h work is a decent price and wth no call out fee bunged in top, that is a name to put on your wall for if / when something similar occurs again.
> 
> At least it's sorted and you can relax a bit and look to sorting out any issues it has caused. *I feel a paint brush session may be needed once it has all dried out..*....
> 
> Good luck !


Don't talk to me about paint brushes, Karen called me on Monday as I was going to Aldi to get the weeks food (she was at her fathers sorting out funeral arrangements) to get a can of gloss, paintbrushes and rollers.
I was hoping to being self isolated for the next couple of months and having a relaxing time as I am in the risk category but I can see me being up ladders and breathing in paint fumes now!


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Certainly sounds like a dec not bloke and an efficient plumber, I am really pleased that my pessimism as regards the bill proved to be a factor of 10 out, £45 for 1 1/2 h work is a decent price and wth no call out fee bunged in top, that is a name to put on your wall for if / when something similar occurs again.
> 
> At least it's sorted and you can relax a bit and look to sorting out any issues it has caused. I feel a paint brush session may be needed once it has all dried out......
> 
> Good luck !


I think we got of really lightly. The floorboards up here are all varnished and where the water has leaked through to downstairs is actually just through the wooden section of the floorboards and its all gone mainly onto the fireplace stonework by the side below and some on the carpet. Michelle had it sorted pretty quick. No painting necessary. Had I not noticed it and woken up or been away it would have been an entirely different story.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Nice Ray
> 
> Anyway it seems this guy is a good egg and not taking advantage. Just had the bill. £45 all in. Paid it instantly with a recommendation on the local Facebook group help page.
> 
> Almost feel guilty, he was here an hour and a half.


Result. And on an emergency call-out.

Only a bit more than we would pay in Poland:wink2::laugh:

Of course you will charge him £99.99 for the 'Advertisement' on FB.


----------



## yarmouth (Nov 1, 2017)

Matchlock said:


> Don't talk to me about paint brushes, Karen called me on Monday as I was going to Aldi to get the weeks food (she was at her fathers sorting out funeral arrangements) to get a can of gloss, paintbrushes and rollers.
> I was hoping to being self isolated for the next couple of months and having a relaxing time as I am in the risk category but I can see me being up ladders and breathing in paint fumes now!


I think that paint don't give of fumes anymore.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

nicholsong said:


> ............
> 
> Of course you will charge him £99.99 for the 'Advertisement' on FB.


And promise not to give any Fruitcakes his number. Obvissly.


----------



## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I understand your anxiety exactly Barry. Me too. Although I'm a little more handy than you are! I put that down to my belief that anything a man can fix, I can also with the exception of muscle demanding tasks.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

HermanHymer said:


> I understand your anxiety exactly Barry. Me too. Although I'm a little more handy than you are! I put that down to my belief that anything a man can fix, I can also with the exception of muscle demanding tasks.


I never had any training!! My father was a headmaster and when he wasnt running a school his obsession was Cricket. Never taught us any practical skills but I dont think he really had any either although he did teach me how to make Catapults and Bolsa wood planes. Ive always been in the none DIY camp, if it breaks get a professional to fix it. From cars to Doors to water tanks. Once all those services start to break down of course you realise your kind of vulnerable. 

Maybe I should spend all this spare time watching DIY Videos although I suspect instead ill just spend it playing guitar loudly and drinking.


----------



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

barryd said:


> I never had any training!! My father was a headmaster and when he wasnt running a school his obsession was Cricket. Never taught us any practical skills but I dont think he really had any either although he did teach me how to make Catapults and Bolsa wood planes. Ive always been in the none DIY camp, if it breaks get a professional to fix it. From cars to Doors to water tanks. Once all those services start to break down of course you realise your kind of vulnerable.
> 
> Maybe I should spend all this spare time watching DIY Videos although I suspect instead ill just spend it playing guitar loudly and drinking.


Hilaire Belloc thought the same Baz :smile2:

*Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
It is the business of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan.*


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> I never had any training!! My father was a headmaster and when he wasnt running a school his obsession was Cricket. Never taught us any practical skills but I dont think he really had any either although he did teach me how to make Catapults and Bolsa wood planes. Ive always been in the none DIY camp, if it breaks get a professional to fix it. From cars to Doors to water tanks. Once all those services start to break down of course you realise your kind of vulnerable.
> 
> Maybe I should spend all this spare time watching DIY Videos although I suspect instead ill just spend it playing guitar loudly and drinking.


Too late Baz. You keep breaking things and we will keep laughing (trying to help) so the artisans can keep earning.

Ray.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

My pet project is to get the scooter going. Tuggers has been helping me with that but really apart from taking the battery off and charging it which was a major job in itself for me I dunno what else I can to. Kick the tyres I suppose. I am convinced that once the warm weather comes it will start. one day.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

1. Take the spark plug out, clean it and then use a normal HB or B pencil, rub that between the central and side electrodes so to leave a little graphite on the side electrode - that encourages a healthy spark

2. While the spark plug is OUT, turn the engine over and sniff the spark plug hole - you SHOULD smell fuel, if not,turn it over a few more times and repeat 2 and sniff again,

3. If you CAN smell fuel, replace the spark plug, reconnect the lead and try starting it....

Hopefully it will start....

If you cannot smell fuel, it could well mean the jet is blocked as the fuel has been in there a while, unused....

When did it last run ? Is it four stroke or two stroke (different things for each) ?

Once you have tried that, come back for more suggestions...

Good luck. 😊


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Put it onto the van. Go to the top of a long hill. Let it go down the hill and if it doesn't start by the time it gets to the bottom, chuck it like an old printer.

Ray.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> Put it onto the van. Go to the top of a long hill. Let it go down the hill and if it doesn't start by the time it gets to the bottom, chuck it like an old printer.
> 
> Ray.


But don't forget to put the spark plug back in first.:wink2:


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Its not the plug. Last summer we had this problem at the beginning of spring when it came out of hibernation. Bloody garage had it for weeks and never fixed it but I dont think they tried that hard. The longer it was stood the worse it got but I discovered that when you used it after not using it for a while it would fire up ok then after half a mile or so start to stutter like it was running out of fuel. five to ten minutes of that it would suddenly spring to life and be perfectly fine all day long. Once we were away in the van in the summer using it every day it was pretty much fine.

I think there is a sensor somewhere that does something with the fuel injection system when its cold and I reckon its not working but once warmed up its fine. I have even started wondering if there was a way to falsely warm the engine. maybe set a fire under it  (They do that in Russia) which will kid it into thinking its warm and it will start. Either that or wait until it is actually warm and leave it in the sun. Sounds crazy I know but it was better last year when it was warmer.

I was about to bin it Ray and get a new one then we ended up on lock down and I couldnt get one.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Always used to have this problem with 2 strokes left over winter as the petrol evaporated and left oil in the float chamber. Now I always run a 2 stroke dry.

Ray.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Give it a jolly good thrashing Baz.


----------



## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

I know you think you are not mechanically minded , but replacing a ball cock is a real easy job and is sort of self explanatory as you go - go on have a go.


----------



## Gretchibald (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems like we are all fixing little jobs that have been ignored for some time. We had some broken floor tiles in the kitchen under the rug, Jayne has replaced them with some left overs . Really the thing to do was to get some of the original tiles from under the kitchen cupboards , but too big a job for me at tjhe moment , anyway they are always covered by the mat ha ha .


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Gretchibald said:


> Seems like we are all fixing little jobs that have been ignored for some time. We had some broken floor tiles in the kitchen under the rug, Jayne has replaced them with some left overs . Really the thing to do was to get some of the original tiles from under the kitchen cupboards , but too big a job for me at tjhe moment , anyway they are always covered by the mat ha ha .


I like that. It'll catch on.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Not sure what bike you have now Baz, but it probably has an automatic choke (cold start device), which via a signal from a sensor enriches the mixture to enable cold starting.
Probably not something you should try yourself but a simple job for anyone with the necessary tools and mechanical expertise to sort out.
Not a garage type of repair you'll need a decent bike repair person.

.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

eurajohn said:


> Not sure what bike you have now Baz, but it probably has an automatic choke (cold start device), which via a signal from a sensor enriches the mixture to enable cold starting.
> Probably not something you should try yourself but a simple job for anyone with the necessary tools and mechanical expertise to sort out.
> Not a garage type of repair you'll need a decent bike repair person.
> 
> .


Thanks. Its a Honda Vision. I dont think it has an automatic choke. Its some kind of sensor I think.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gretchibald said:


> I know you think you are not mechanically minded , but replacing a ball cock is a real easy job and is sort of self explanatory as you go - go on have a go.


Its sorted now thanks Alan. Dunno how he did it as its totally inaccessible so he may as well have done it blind folded.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Give it a jolly good thrashing Baz.


You been on the pish? Would be a great idea if only I could get the fecking thing STARTED!

EDIT: you mean as in Basil Fawlty thrashing? Good idea.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

It does indeed have an auto choke 
https://www.amazon.fr/Carburateur-Sport-nh80-NH-Scoopy-Vision/dp/B06VSW8NXB
Or https://www.dsuxoden.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=555145
How to test 




Dependant on your model there are various possible fitments, as mentioned before you just need someone with the knowledge to do it for you.
Now if you were a bit closer! :smile2:

.


----------

