# Which new battery setup?



## EuropeanCampers (Mar 28, 2008)

My bus currently has just the one leisure battery, an 80ah Exide Gel which is Hymer standard fit and resides under the passenger "captains" seat.

The previous owner replaced the original like for like about 18 months ago at the absurd cost of about £220!

I would like to add an additional second leisure battery, under the drivers "captains" seat this time.

As they are under these seats, I am limited in dimension to the size of the current gel, 353 x 175 x 190mm

My options as I see them:

1) Buy and fit a second exide gel 80ah, cost £220.

2) Remove the existing gel and fit 2 x 110ah Elecsol. Same dimensions and at £110 each, same total cost but have more ah at the end.

3) Find (dont know where) 2 cheap wet batteries. These would I think have to be only 80ah each as I cant find any 110ah wets that fit the above dimensions. Cost probably about £120.

Now I dont think they are vented under the seats which is why Im guessing they fit gel to start with. If I take option 2 or 3 I would continue to use the gel setting on the Electroblok to prevent gassing in these unvented under seat areas.

I would be very appreciative of any expert opinion on my options and my best route home.

Thanks as ever.
Gareth


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## CaptainBligh (Jan 18, 2008)

GEH007 said:


> My bus currently has just the one leisure battery, an 80ah Exide Gel which is Hymer standard fit and resides under the passenger "captains" seat.
> 
> The previous owner replaced the original like for like about 18 months ago at the absurd cost of about £220!
> 
> ...


Not an expert, but I would suggest the two Elecsol (which are sealed), guaranteed for five years, have a good reputation. I suggest you shop around, I paid £110 for three 125 amps last year. Reset Electroblock to normal position. When I inherited my Hymer it had two wet batteries under each seat with piping to vent going through holes in the floor.

Captain Bligh :brave:


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## daichi (May 9, 2005)

Hi Gareth, we replaced our 2 Elecsol 110's in the summer after 5 yrs using them an average 8 months a year !! before they died. Got exactly the same as replacement at £220.00 delivered, excellent batteries ! 8)


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

When we got our Hymer, it had 2 Exide Gels in the battery box, but in a Starline, this is recessed into the floor under the settee. I replaced with 2 x 110 Ah Elecsol and am very pleased with them so far (1 year). The correct setting on the Elektroblock for Elecsol is Lead Acid (Blei-Saüre). If you use the gel setting, stage 2 of the charge cycle is extended from 1 hour to 8 hours, so not very good for the Elecsols I guess.

I still think you should vent the batteries, whatever type you get. The reason I knew one of my Exide Gels was useless, was because one cell had failed and started gassing - (Gel setting on the charger of course). When this happens, the battery gives off Hydrogen Sulphide which can cause quite a bit of damage and smells awful. The damage in my case was de-lamination of the plywood battery cover. I have just got round to making a new one. If hydrogen is given off as well, it presents a serious risk of course. When I checked with Elecsol prior to getting the new batteries, they told me that the batteries were sealed, but still advised venting to protect against cell-failure - just the situation I have described above.

I am sure you can drill small holes down through the floor beneath the seats to take the plastic vent tubes. They can be sealed in place with some mastic. I'm not sure how you would route them around the double floor (If you have that Alko set-up) but perhaps the seat location is forward of the double floor in any case?

Hope this helps.

Philip


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

A couple of series connected 6 volt golf cart traction batteries would be my choice.

More here
http://www.motts.org/second leisiure battery.htm
c.


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## EuropeanCampers (Mar 28, 2008)

I was leaning towards the 2 x Elecsol route but something just struck me.

As the Elektroblok charges the engine battery too whilst on hookup, does that mean I would have to find out if this too is Gel and if so, change it to wet so as not to mix and match with the hab batteries? ie. Do both habs plus the engine battery all have to be the same type? Or can the engine battery be different to the hab battery?

Thanks.


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## CaptainBligh (Jan 18, 2008)

GEH007 said:


> I was leaning towards the 2 x Elecsol route but something just struck me.
> 
> As the Elektroblok charges the engine battery too whilst on hookup, does that mean I would have to find out if this too is Gel and if so, change it to wet so as not to mix and match with the hab batteries? ie. Do both habs plus the engine battery all have to be the same type? Or can the engine battery be different to the hab battery?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't think Gel's would be used as an engine battery - it would be a normal lead acid battery but I'm sure further posts will confirm.

Regards Captain Bligh


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## Terryg (Jun 18, 2009)

*As the Elektroblok charges the engine battery too whilst on hookup, does that mean I would have to find out if this too is Gel and if so, change it to wet so as not to mix and match with the hab batteries? ie. Do both habs plus the engine battery all have to be the same type? Or can the engine battery be different to the hab battery?*
[hr:13d36e62ef]

Gareth,

I don't know the answer to this, contact Udo Lang at Schaudt. He will respond swiftly with the answers you require, his contact details below.

Udo Lang, technical support
Schaudt GmbH Elektrotechnik & Apparatebau
Planckstr. 8 - 88677 Markdorf - Germany
email: [email protected]

Terry.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

CliveMott said:


> A couple of series connected 6 volt golf cart traction batteries would be my choice.
> 
> More here
> http://www.motts.org/second leisiure battery.htm
> c.


I've seen you mention this a few times now Clive, and trust you have a good reasons for doing it this way, as you know your stuff electrickery wise, but I would love to know what the pros and cons are of doing it this way.

Kev.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

The pros for using two 6 volt series connected golf cart batteries are :-
1 That the cell construction is definately deep cycle for a traction duty.
2 You won,t have any problems with current sharing during charge or discharge as you don,t have any parallel connected cells.
3 You wont have potentially high local fault currents that can arise with two 12 volt parallel connected batteries should one cell fail short circuit. (Like a lump of lead paste falls out and shorts out that plates internally)

The cons are that full traction duty batteries will cost more.

If you do opt for the traditional two 12 volt batteries connected in parallel then make sure that each battery has its own protective fuse to protect against (3) above.

Its your money.
http://www.motts.org/second leisiure battery.htm

C.


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

if you go elecsol route set electroblok to wet

joe


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Gareth

There are loads of battery's the size you require and all makes and types, you need to browse on the WEB, just put in 110ah leisure battery's

Best Regards
Broom


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## EuropeanCampers (Mar 28, 2008)

Broom said:


> Gareth
> 
> There are loads of battery's the size you require and all makes and types, you need to browse on the WEB, just put in 110ah leisure battery's
> 
> ...


Thanks Broom,

But I cant find a normal wet 110ah battery with dimensions of 353 x 175 x 190mm or less.

If anyone knows differently then I'd be delighted to know about it.

Thanks


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

GEH007 said:


> I was leaning towards the 2 x Elecsol route but something just struck me.
> 
> As the Elektroblok charges the engine battery too whilst on hookup, does that mean I would have to find out if this too is Gel and if so, change it to wet so as not to mix and match with the hab batteries? ie. Do both habs plus the engine battery all have to be the same type? Or can the engine battery be different to the hab battery?
> 
> Thanks.


As already mentioned, you could contact Schaudt if you want to hear it from the 'horses mouth'. However, the engine battery only receives a float charge with a maximum charging current of 2A, whilst the gel / lead-acid setting affects the duration of the second phase of the multi-stage charging routine for the leisure batteries. I believe the two battery circuits are independent so far as the charging regimes are concerned. In our case, we used to have 2 x 80 Ah Exide Gels and now have 2 x 110 Ah Elecsol. The battery selector was changed from Gel to L-A to suit the new batteries. The engine battery has remained unchanged throughout. (I believe it is a standard L-A starter battery.)

Philip


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info Clive, they seem like very good reasons to me, I'll give it some serious thought when changing my batteries next time.

Do they have a longer life span in similar usage, do they charge up any quicker.

Would sealed be better than lead/acid or do you think another type might suit our needs in the MH better.

The only other down side might be the space taken.

On going back to the link on this (see below image) I wondered what the final Amp Hours would be in total, I see 2 x 220ah so would assume 440ah, but that is at 6V, so would it drop to 220 at 12V, also if I wanted to have more power, how would 4 x 6V be wired up, I ask as you seem to be very clued up on this.



My apologies if these seem questions a bit daft, but the 6 volt idea is very interesting, and your replies cut out most of the jargon, so easier to understand.

Kev.


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Gareth

They do them I have one on our Motorhome which were put on by Brownhills/Auto Trail, I will have a look and see if I can find the make.

There are plenty of sealed lead acid types 110ah, I am being recommended Lucas 113ah from Alpha Battery's in Rochdale (I have no link with them) £160.00 for 2.

Platinum Low case 110ah will fit, sealed lead acid £80.00

Mine is an 110ah Elecsol

Best Regards
Broom


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Kev,

These issues have been aired many times on MHF. But briefly:

"Do they have a longer life span in similar usage, do they charge up any quicker."
Yes. No. 

"Would sealed be better than lead/acid or do you think another type might suit our needs in the MH better."
Well they are all lead acid. And wet can still be sealed! My strong preference is for wet with maintenance caps and vented - whether you actually NEED to maintain them is down to your charging regime. 

"On going back to the link on this (see below image) I wondered what the final Amp Hours would be in total, I see 2 x 220ah so would assume 440ah, but that is at 6V, so would it drop to 220 at 12V"
Yes.

"also if I wanted to have more power, how would 4 x 6V be wired up"
You would lose the advantage of 6V, which is to avoid parallel connections, when any differences between the batteries during charging and discharging can result in current imbalances and impaired life. 

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

DABurleigh said:


> Kev,
> 
> These issues have been aired many times on MHF. But briefly:
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave, (do I sense annoyance) I'm sure most issues have been asked and answered more than once and I did do a search, but they tend to be posted by several different people with differing answers, hence why I asked Clive, so as to get all the same info from one source, not to say the others are not valid, but if you wanted to read about world history you'd not read one chapter from each of the dozens of books available, and Clive is the main contributor on matters electrical.

Maybe this subject could be covered for the FAQ forum and all points covered and answered in one place, then we can close down the forum as there won't be any questions to ask.  

The same questions do get asked and often, and I notice myself and think why don't the just do a search, the first problem is the search engine is not very good, the questions do vary slightly, but the answers differ hugely dependant largely on the answerers point of view, experiences, and knowledge of the subject.

Kev :black:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Kev,

Well here are just a few results from a simple MHF search, including results showing you have asked the same question(s) before and got the same answers from both me and Clive regarding the advantage of 6V series explicitly being battery life 

No, I don't mind you asking again, though would prefer you remember 

Dave

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-514867.html#514867

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-450080.html#450080
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-535393.html#535393
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-700231.html#700231
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-442043.html#442043
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-390588.html#390588
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-692280.html#692280
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-523685.html#523685

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-642619.html#642619
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-571292.html#571292

and so on.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

These kids just don't listen!!

C.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Er you obviously confused me with someone else,    

I honestly don't remember asking those specific questions, very odd.

My apologies to all.

Kev.

PS I liked Pippins reply re single 2.2 v cells, but may take up too much space and payload.


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