# Discover Leisure shares suspended / now in administration



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Shares suspended on AIM

Stand at NEC cordoned off and security staff in attendance.

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?code=cotn:DISL.L&display=news&it=le


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## nukeadmin

hmmmm not good news as inevitably potential customers will be put off handing over cash (especially with the NEC show on) !


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## bognormike

not good news at all  

here's the text of the statement
]
"Discover Leisure announces that, at it's request, trading of its shares on AIM has been suspended from 7.30am on 14 October 2011 pending clarification of its financial position.



Further to the announcement dated 10 October 2011, the board has continued to vigorously pursue a number of opportunities to find additional finance to secure the on-going trade of the business. Despite the extremely challenging trading conditions and financial environment, the board has had some success in finding financial investors who have indicated an intention to invest additional capital or acquire certain assets of the Company. However, the Board now believes that it is increasingly unlikely that an acceptable solution to the funding issues which the Group faces can be secured in the necessary timeframe. Accordingly, the Company has requested a suspension of the listing and trading of the Company's ordinary shares with immediate effect, pending clarification of the Company's financial position. "


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## wakk44

Hmmm......

Their website is still running as normal,wonder if they are still taking orders,I would not like to put a deposit on a new m/home with discover atm.


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## bognormike

the statement referred to on 10th October was the provisional results

"Business Update



The provisional unaudited results for the twelve months ended 31 August 2011 are estimated as:



- Turnover of £49.8m (2010: £52.3m)

- Loss before tax £1.5m (2010: £1.8m)



The net debt of the Group at 31 August 2011 is estimated at £10.1m (2010: £11.5m). This reduction reflects the sale of further freehold properties during the year and the subsequent reduction in the Group's term loans.



The Group's interim statement on 14 April 2011 highlighted the continuation of recessionary conditions and weak margins in the market and predicted a challenging second half year. This has proved to be the case, with UK sales of both tourers and motorhomes in the three months to August 2011 both being less than the similarly weak year-ago period.



The Group witnessed the usual seasonal uplift in trade in the second half and trading for the 12 months to 31 August 2011 was in line with the expectations at the half year. However, profits in the second half of the year have not been sufficient to offset the previous winter losses and therefore the finances of the business have come under increasing pressure. With low season conditions already in place and the expectations of a continued difficult trading environment, the Group will come under further significant pressure this autumn and into the winter. The Group has continued to benefit from its existing lending facilities, but the board recognises that it needs to secure additional finance and is therefore actively involved in pursuing a number of opportunities to secure the ongoing trade of the business."

A business can't continue with losses like that if they are short of capital; it looks like they've tried to re-negotiate funding and this hasn't happened.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

nukeadmin said:


> hmmmm not good news as inevitably potential customers will be put off handing over cash (especially with the NEC show on) !


Only a fool pays cash, pay by credit card and you are covered in the event of non supply.

Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.

Deal with companies with a proven track record. !!!!!!

Plenty of good independent family dealers out there.


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## bognormike

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Deal with companies with a proven track record. !!!!!!
> 
> Plenty of good independent family dealers out there.


not mentioning any names of course, Peter! 8)

It's all a bit scary and can't have come at a worse time for them.

I think Discover went in buying up dealerships all over the place, then the recession came, and they had to close several. Now they seem to still be in trouble. With hindsight, the expansion by them and other companies (I wonder who :?: ) were bound to fail if there was any downturn, as they had built that expansion on borrowing, and eventually the banks / investors want a return and / or repayment. If they can't generate enough profits to service that borrowing, the result is inevitable


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## GEMMY

It'll be back up and running on Monday trading as Discover Leisure 2011. 8) :wink: 

tony


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## erneboy

With losses like that I doubt it Tony, Alan.


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## GEMMY

That's the whole idea Alan, dump the losses and restart with a fresh balance sheet. Look at Brownhills for a start. :lol: 

tony


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## bognormike

they narrowly avoided administration a couple of years back; I doubt whether they can now  . And I doubt whether there is any way back for the current management, or the name :roll:


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## spatz1

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Only a fool pays cash, pay by credit card and you are covered in the event of non supply.
> 
> Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.
> 
> Deal with companies with a proven track record. !!!!!!
> 
> Plenty of good independent family dealers out there.


So there s safety in travelling to tn32 5jj as well as a choice of colour for my fiama awning :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## GEMMY

They will be in negotiations with " Ask Tom " wait and see Mike. :wink: 

tony


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## erneboy

I reckon it's hard enough to arrange financing for perfectly sound Companies at the minute, so I just can't see a Company which has been in trouble for some time being able to find finance, even with a change of personnel and a new name.

I would speculate that there are directors guarantees and other collateral arrangements in place already, Alan.


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## Addie

It's one thing John Cross promoting himself on the forums (and fair play to him) but he loses credibility in my mind when he is first to dish the dirt on his competitors.

This information would have come to light without his post and his silence would have spoken volumes - he doesn't have to push others down in order to appear superior.

Can anyone confirm the statement re the stand at the NEC? I can find no mention of this on twitter or otherwise, I've text a friend who is at the show today and he's going to check it out now.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

erneboy said:


> I reckon it's hard enough to arrange financing for perfectly sound Companies at the minute, so I just can't see a Company which has been in trouble for some time being able to find finance, even with a change of personnel and a new name.
> 
> I would speculate that there are directors guarantees and other collateral arrangements in place already, Alan.


It is a listed company on the AIM and as such no directors would give personal gurantees.

They went into a CVA couple of years ago promisiong to pay 20p in the pound spread over five years

DISCOVER LEISURE SET FOR CRUNCH MEETING

In a last-ditch attempt to avoid falling into administration, caravan company Discover Leisure will face creditors on Monday with its plan to restructure debts. In May, the Yorkshire-based group said it planned a company voluntary arrangement to tackle its debt. The terms of the CVA would see creditors repaid just over 20 percent of what they're owed over the next five years. Mark Firman, of KPMG which is set to supervise the process if the creditors approve it on Monday, said the transaction would make certain that Discover survived and creditors would receive a higher return than they would via administration. If the CVA is rejected by the creditors, then the group is likely to call in the administrators.


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## Addie

Just a follow up to my last post, a friend at the NEC has confirmed the stand has been closed down which isn't going to look good for the weekends NEC visitors.

Also first mentions on Twitter in the last 20 minutes:
http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/financial-problems-force-discover-leisure-into-nec-no-show-$21380593.htm


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## spatz1

Addie said:


> Just a follow up to my last post, a friend at the NEC has confirmed the stand has been closed down which isn't going to look good for the weekends NEC visitors.
> 
> Also first mentions on Twitter in the last 20 minutes:
> http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/industry/financial-problems-force-discover-leisure-into-nec-no-show-$21380593.htm


hmmmm..

bet there s many who wished they had sold for the 23p quoted in the article even yesterday...

0.23p to corect it


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## Nethernut

So are you saying that we should pay for a motorhome with a credit card Peter? Do you accept MasterCard payments of, say, £30,000?
Jan



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> nukeadmin said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmmmm not good news as inevitably potential customers will be put off handing over cash (especially with the NEC show on) !
> 
> 
> 
> Only a fool pays cash, pay by credit card and you are covered in the event of non supply.
> 
> Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.
> 
> Deal with companies with a proven track record. !!!!!!
> 
> Plenty of good independent family dealers out there.
Click to expand...


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## GEMMY

Wish dealers would, my Tesco points would rocket. :lol: 

tony


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## erneboy

Didn't know that Peter always having wholly owned my businesses as a sole trader, limited status never appealed to me. I thought it might be rather limiting.

Addie, I regard it as industry news and am not bothered about who was first to post it. The main thing was that Peter was accurate in what he said and posted only the facts. I imagine that no matter what his personal thoughts are on the company he does not like to see any company in his sector fail as it damages confidence in the whole sector, Alan.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Nethernut said:


> So are you saying that we should pay for a motorhome with a credit card Peter? Do you accept MasterCard payments of, say, £30,000?
> Jan


No I would not accept large payments by credit/debit cards, the credit card companies charge us 1.7% commisssion!

What I am say is do not pay deposits with cash, debit, switch or by cheque, you have no protection if it all goes belly up.

If you are taking immediate delivery and you have physical possession of the item then it does not really matter how you pay, no merchant will accept large paymensts by credit card unless the customer pays a surcharge, look at the budget airlines and their costs!
Pay the DVLA by credit card for road tax and they charge you 2.5 % more now.

Peter


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## nukeadmin

> No I would not accept large payments by credit/debit cards, the credit card companies charge us 1.7% commisssion!


Is that definitely the same for Debit cards Peter as Outdoorbits only pays 35p for a Debit Card Payment regardless of amount AFAIK. We take this into account on large transactions where customers ask if they can get discount i.e. Easier to think about discount if payment is via Debit Vs Credit Card


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## teemyob

*Like*



GEMMY said:


> That's the whole idea Alan, dump the losses and restart with a fresh balance sheet. Look at Brownhills for a start. :lol:
> 
> tony


Like thousands of kitchen companies do every year.

Same with Flooring, windows you name it.

I went through hell when i closed my old company, paid all my debts, creditors and made sure all my customers got their goods/orders and money.

But there are too many crooks around.

TM


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## erneboy

I must admit I know nothing about some of the things the less scrupulous get up to. I may have been lucky but I never needed to know such things. I did get caught by the crafty once or twice though, Alan.


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## Chrisv

Hello, 
We bought our motorhome at the October 2008 NEC show. After a 9 month search we found the one we wanted and tried to place an order with our local Burstner dealer (Portsmouth). However they were too busy (with large RV's) and asked us to call in at their showroom later that week. We didn't. We went straight back to the Burstner stand and ordered it from Discover Leisure. After we paid our deposit the salesman handed me a competition entry form and said that they were likely to sell about 75 motorhomes that week so we had a 1 in 75 chance of winning. We then wrote a little poem of 20 words why we had bought a motorhome from DL. The prize was £30000 off the price of the motorhome. My wife thought that you would have to buy one of the more expensive MH's to win and I , being a little more cynical, thought that no one would win it but we were both wrong because we won it! So the following April when we picked it up we only had to hand over £3500! Within 18 months they closed their branches in the south. 
I feel that we may have contributed to their downfall in some small way. 8O 

Cheers 
Chris


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## teemyob

*really*



Chrisv said:


> Hello,
> We bought our motorhome at the October 2008 NEC show. After a 9 month search we found the one we wanted and tried to place an order with our local Burstner dealer (Portsmouth). However they were too busy (with large RV's) and asked us to call in at their showroom later that week. We didn't. We went straight back to the Burstner stand and ordered it from Discover Leisure. After we paid our deposit the salesman handed me a competition entry form and said that they were likely to sell about 75 motorhomes that week so we had a 1 in 75 chance of winning. We then wrote a little poem of 20 words why we had bought a motorhome from DL. The prize was £30000 off the price of the motorhome. My wife thought that you would have to buy one of the more expensive MH's to win and I , being a little more cynical, thought that no one would win it but we were both wrong because we won it! So the following April when we picked it up we only had to hand over £3500! Within 18 months they closed their branches in the south.
> I feel that we may have contributed to their downfall in some small way. 8O
> 
> Cheers
> Chris


I doubt it.

Bet they spent that a month in advertising.

TM


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## coppo

Chrisv said:


> Hello,
> We bought our motorhome at the October 2008 NEC show. After a 9 month search we found the one we wanted and tried to place an order with our local Burstner dealer (Portsmouth). However they were too busy (with large RV's) and asked us to call in at their showroom later that week. We didn't. We went straight back to the Burstner stand and ordered it from Discover Leisure. After we paid our deposit the salesman handed me a competition entry form and said that they were likely to sell about 75 motorhomes that week so we had a 1 in 75 chance of winning. We then wrote a little poem of 20 words why we had bought a motorhome from DL. The prize was £30000 off the price of the motorhome. My wife thought that you would have to buy one of the more expensive MH's to win and I , being a little more cynical, thought that no one would win it but we were both wrong because we won it! So the following April when we picked it up we only had to hand over £3500! Within 18 months they closed their branches in the south.
> I feel that we may have contributed to their downfall in some small way. 8O
> 
> Cheers
> Chris


No you didnt, i wouldnt lose any sleep over that.

Paul.


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## homenaway

Hi,

Their shares have been falling for a while I believe.

On a more personal note we are waiting for a warranty repair on our Adria Twin shower tray to be carried out at their Delamere branch so that may be delayed even longer. (We had purchased the van from Darlington). I will have to contact Adria Concessionaires next week to find out if it's arrived in the UK yet. According to the warranty you can use any authorised dealer - well we will see!

Of course the branches may be bought up and continue trading.

(We noticed the bus stop outside Delamere is still called Harringtons when we were there last month - an omen?? )  

Let's hope it all gets sorted out.

Steve


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

17:54 
Discover Leisure PLC - Appointment of Administrators

RNS
RNS Number : 2548Q
Discover Leisure PLC
14 October 2011

14 October 2011

DISCOVER LEISURE PLC

('Discover Leisure' or 'the Company')

Appointment of Administrators

Following this morning's announcement regarding the suspension of trading of the Company's ordinary shares, the board is now providing a further update.

As previously announced, the Company has faced challenging trading conditions and the board has been actively pursuing a number of options to raise additional capital. These options have included selling certain assets of the Company and securing alternative equity and debt financing from trade and financial parties. Prior to the Company's suspension of trading in its shares, negotiations were on-going with a number of parties and it was hopeful that sufficient additional funding or a business disposal would be completed. It has now, however, become clear that neither solution can be achieved within the foreseeable future. As a result, and, following discussions with the Company's lenders, unfortunately it also became clear that the Company was unable to continue trading as a going concern. Consequently, the Board has appointed Mark Granville Firman and Paul Andrew Flint of KPMG as administrators to the Company.


The Directors and management will be working with the administrators to try and ensure that the business is saved in part or as a whole and as many of its employees as possible maintain their jobs within the business.

For further information please contact:

Discover Leisure plc 01430 803 385

David Morrow, Chairman

Trevor Parker, Chief Executive

Neil Harwood, Finance Director

Panmure Gordon (UK) Limited 020 7459 3600

Andrew Godber/Adam Pollock

Cubitt Consulting 020 7367 5100

Chris Lane / Alice Coubrough


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## bognormike

oh Dear.  

that was inevitable. I don't know how it will leave the CVA set up from a couple of years ago, probably dead in the water. 


I'll go back and edit the title


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## cabby

Hi Peter, does this mean that you will be hot footing it with cheque book in hand to buy up some discounted motorhomes very soon. :lol: :lol: 

cabby


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

cabby said:


> Hi Peter, does this mean that you will be hot footing it with cheque book in hand to buy up some discounted motorhomes very soon. :lol: :lol:
> 
> cabby


Definately not, I have plenty of stock and do not need any more especially at this time of the year.

Peter


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## teemyob

*auction*



cabby said:


> Hi Peter, does this mean that you will be hot footing it with cheque book in hand to buy up some discounted motorhomes very soon. :lol: :lol:
> 
> cabby


End up at auction maybe?


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## GEMMY

They will be the base of Discover Leisure 2011 Ltd.

tony


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## teemyob

*2011*



GEMMY said:


> They will be the base of Discover Leisure 2011 Ltd.
> 
> tony


Possibly

I doubt the Directors wil have Guarantees. And no doubt have nice homes, cars yachts etc.

TM


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## bognormike

TM

I doubt anything will change soon; Administration gives them time to find buyers for the various sectors / locations as going concerns, with protection from creditors. It may be that these are profitable in themselves but when loaded up with the historic company debt they make a loss. But it may also be the case that the stock is financed anyway, so carries no net value in the balance sheet. (as an example have a look back at the 2009 accounts of Brownhills that I posted up here a few months back).

It could be that the administrators can't find buyers (and who has the funds, and confidence, to take that on!) , and it's at that stage they woudl have to shut branches down, and unfortunately lay off the staff.


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## chasper

*Re: 2011*

Possibly

I doubt the Directors wil have Guarantees. And no doubt have nice homes, cars yachts etc.

TM[/quote]

They are most likely owned by their wives. Chasper


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

*Re: 2011*



chasper said:


> Possibly
> I doubt the Directors wil have Guarantees. And no doubt have nice homes, cars yachts etc.
> TM


They are most likely owned by their wives. Chasper[/quote]

Directors of publicly quoted companies do not give personal guarantees of any description.

If they had too, then perhaps the Banks would not have got into the mess they put them in! Same as our politicians

As it is they just walk away

Peter


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## BrianJP

Perhaps they shouldn't have been so greedy with customers.Last week they quoted me £300 for an engine service and £200 for habitation on a MH I bought from them last year. Local garage ( top notch Unipart centre charged around £175 for engine) and can get mobile mech to do habitation for squids less than £200.


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## teemyob

*loans*

I think a lot of people have been struggling to get finance of late. That or having already been stitched up in the past (like my Brother) or simply got into to much debt and been talked into bankruptcy. And that is another business full of sharks.

So no loans and many people cannot buy. Shame as the camping sector of the leisure industry is on the up!.

TM


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

*Re: loans*



teemyob said:


> Shame as the camping sector of the leisure industry is on the up!.
> 
> TM


Everyone we speak to says its stagnant, people are not spending!

Peter


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## tyreman1

They shouldnt have been such an unhelpful lot of sods and perhaps people would have had more dealings with them.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

tyreman1 said:


> They shouldnt have been such an unhelpful lot of sods and perhaps people would have had more dealings with them.


I never heard many reports, if any of bad service from Discover, yes they closed branches and left people in the lurch but so did another major dealer.

One can only blame the leaders of these business's not the staff.

Peter


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## Stanner

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.


You will if you use a VISA debit card and you won't be limited to purchases of over £100 by the Consumer credit Act either.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes

Stanner said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.
> 
> 
> 
> You will if you use a VISA debit card and you won't be limited to purchases of over £100 by the Consumer credit Act either.
> 
> http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/
Click to expand...

Maybe BUT you do not have the protection of the Consumer Credit Act, you end up with it being a dispute and who wants the agro.

----------------------------------------------------------

Invoking the chargeback procedure

If you suspect your card has been used fraudulently, if the goods and services you bought with your card are faulty or if they do not materialise, then you should contact the bank who has provided you with your Visa debit card within 120 days, requesting they initiate the chargeback process. It does not mean you will automatically and immediately get your money back. It will initially become a 'dispute' in which the claim will be fully investigated by both banks before any money is returned.


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## Stanner

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't use Switch or Debit Cards, you won't get a refund on those.
> 
> 
> 
> You will if you use a VISA debit card and you won't be limited to purchases of over £100 by the Consumer credit Act either.
> 
> http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe BUT you do not have the protection of the Consumer Credit Act, you end up with it being a dispute and who wants the agro.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Invoking the chargeback procedure
> 
> If you suspect your card has been used fraudulently, if the goods and services you bought with your card are faulty or if they do not materialise, then you should contact the bank who has provided you with your Visa debit card within 120 days, requesting they initiate the chargeback process. It does not mean you will automatically and immediately get your money back. It will initially become a 'dispute' in which the claim will be fully investigated by both banks before any money is returned.
Click to expand...

Having been down the CCA route over the Speedferries collapse that is in effect a "dispute" as well - it certainly isn't a certainty, the banks do their best to make sure it isn't.

The Chargeback scheme isn't the same as "won't get your money back" either, I never said it was easy, just that it WAS possible.


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## Rapide561

*Discover*

Hi

I would like to make several points about this thread. I was away and busy yesterday, so I have bit to say now in one "hit" as it were.

1) Discover - I genuinely hope the firm can be partly/wholly saved. In my time as a motorhomer, I have received excellent assistance from Discover Cannock (closed) and more recently Discover York. I did not by either of the two motorhomes involved from them, but like Peter at Johns Cross, Discover have helped out a non customer. How many can do that?

2) The staff - again, I speak as I find and I have met some really nice people who work at Discover. I hope their jobs can be salvaged somehow.

3) Pay by credit card....not as straight forward as you may think. You only have to pay £100 on a credit card and are covered for various failings etc. However, only valid for purchases upto £30,000 total cost. So buy a Kon-tiki, pay deposit on the credit card and you are not covered - at least that is what Tesco Bank told me and certainly how the CCA reads.

Russell


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## hireme

Hi
Tip of the iceberg.
When will dellers recognise and act on the fact that this is not 2008, there are not hundreds of later life Motorhomers quing up to spend there non interest paying savings. The cost of servicing and habitation checks are just plain silly and I firmly believe that to stay afloat in these difficult times ( And you ain't seen the worse yet ) you have to love and cherish your customer base and become pro active with pricing.
EG The mighty Lexus have started to offer a less expensive hourly workshop rate to people with older Luxus and if you are part of the Lexus owners club, you will receive discounts on parts. They did not do this because they are a registered charity, they did it to keep revenue up in after sales and and the chance to convert long term and newly aquired customers in to potential new car customers.
We are in Riaza at the moment, purely on a tax deductable 4 month fact finding tour, to help and advise our customers on the best places to stay LOL. Next to us was a lovely elderly couple with an 11 plate Autotrail. The gentleman was led under the van trying to repair something so I offed my assistance. Long story short he paid over £60,000 for this Autotrail and has had nothing but trouble in the short time he has owned it. This in itself was a problem, but the biggest problem was the way he has been treated with the largest dose of "NFI"
I am aware there will always be problems and there will always be good and bad dealers but, it would seem the trend is going the wrong way. The customer who pays £10,000 or £70,000 is King and deserves to be treated like one, not only before he purchases, or he is likely to vote with his feet.


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## homenaway

Hi,

The Discover staff we have dealt with at both Darlington and Delamere have been very helpful with our warranty repairs. When we were at Delamere recently, admittedly midweek afternoon, there were no other customers in their large and well stocked accessories shop (also with camping, clothing and fishing gear) but at least six staff standing about. They didn't have many new motorhomes on display. 

I agree the price list I spotted for their mechanical and especially habitation services were astronomical. 

The Leeds showroom they rented recently must have cost a lot. I believe when Discover was setup a few years ago there were former car sales directors involved - IMHO a somewhat different business to motorhome and caravan sales and service.

Lets hope some of it can be rescued.

Steve


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## spatz1

lets remember whatever the staff were like , this buisness wanted to take your money at the nec knowing it had 10 million debts and the stock market valued it at 350k with the writing firmly on the wall prior to their show there....


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## duxdeluxe

homenaway said:


> I agree the price list I spotted for their mechanical and especially habitation services were astronomical. I believe when Discover was setup a few years ago there were former car sales directors involved - IMHO a somewhat different business to motorhome and caravan sales and service.


Now doesn't that all sound a little bit familiar? :wink:

Don't know if the sales staff had shiny suits or not, but you're right - two different businesses. Cars are mostly on a "needed" basis edging into leisure and motorhomes are almost always a leisure purchase, with totally different demographics


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## sallytrafic

Funnily enough I had a phone call from them earlier in the week (I bought a van from them about a year ago). They wanted to know if I wanted to buy a new van. They didn't seem to know why I was on their database.

They also contacted me by post last week wanting to book me in for a habitation service in Darlington for a shade under £400 I live in Salisbury.


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## coppo

sallytrafic said:


> Funnily enough I had a phone call from them earlier in the week (I bought a van from them about a year ago). They wanted to know if I wanted to buy a new van. They didn't seem to know why I was on their database.
> 
> They also contacted me by post last week wanting to book me in for a habitation service in Darlington for a shade under £400 I live in Salisbury.


Wow thats got to be a world record for a hab check 

Paul.


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## Ian_n_Suzy

Hello,

I had been on the look out for a very specific model of Itineo with the twin bunk beds traversing the back. I had been looking for circa 18 months.

Then, roughly 5 months ago I found one for sale (the first time I had come across a UK RHD model), at Discover Darlington. It was a 2008 registered model up for (I think) £44,995. By my reckoning this was about £5000 dearer than it could have been bought for when new, and was quite a bit more than I wanted (or more importantly could afford) to pay.

I rang them up explaining I was genuinely interested but I thought they were a "tad" high re pricing, and that I couldn't afford it at their listed price. Alas, unfortunately we couldn't come to any "agreement".

I spotted that it sold a few weeks ago after the advert was dropped to £39,995. 

Obviously I don't know what price it sold for, but 5 months sounds a very long time to wait for the sale of a used Motorhome?

I too think though that it is a great shame, as I have used a couple of the local to me Discover Leisure`s for spares / consumables and I have found them faultless and quite enjoyed calling in there. Lets hope they can turn it around.


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## camallison

About a year ago, I got a call from one of their outlets offering me a trade-in quote on my (then) current MH. He couldn't tell me where they had my phone number from (we are ex-directory) and I rarely give it out. The trade-in value he quoted me was £17,000 against anything £30,000 and over. I explained to him that we weren't looking for another MH.

Then, out of curiosity, I started looking at what trade-in we might get with other dealers. You guessed it ..... I bought another van, getting £28,000 trade-in on the old MH and picking up a MH 4 years younger at £36,00 before trade-in.

I then made a mental note not to go near them ever again.

Colin


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## bluereiver

*Discover Leisure*

Has anyone made an attempt to contact Discover?. I can get no reply to my telephone calls.

My motorhome is in the workshop at Birtley for some warranty work and I am naturally anxious about how and when I can get it back. Also I need to know how much,if any, of the work is complete.

It's a round trip of about 140 miles from home to Birtley so it's not easy just to pop in and see if the place is locked up.

I have emailed both the joint Administrators and the Discover contact address but don't expect any acknowledgement until after the weekend.

If anyone is or has been in a similar position or has insolvency experience your comments would be appreciated.

In the meantime we are grounded until the situation is resolved.

Sam


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## Addie

From the latest information we have, all the staff at the head office have been sent home along with all the branch staff. The company and its assets are fully in the hands of the administrators KPMG.

I think its fair to say that a company leaving its stand abandoned for the two busiest days of the show had no contingency plans in place.

It is likely, as was the case during the last branch closures during the CVA when people attempted to retrieve their vehicles, that the sites will be manned by security staff but note the staff may not have access to your vehicle keys or workshops. Therefore it may be advisable to attempt to retrieve your vehicle taking with you the relative proof of ownership and spare keys. It may also be advisable to contact the administrators KPMG directly but I would expect branch specific information may be limited at this early stage.

You will not lose your vehicle but it may take some time for the administrators to establish which vehicles are not assets of the company and this may be due in part to gaining the co-operation of branch staff who have lost their jobs and final pay packets.

We hope this helps.


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## lucy2

I passed their York branch ( A64 malton rd) all locked up with what appeared security staff on site. The large Union Jack flag was at 1/2 mast


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## Hymervanman

As it is your vehicle and have proof, telephone the police and tell them that it has been stolen...........


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

Discover leisure


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## BrianJP

Sounds like I had a lucky escape as I nearly let them have my MH on Thurs/Friday for service. I changed my mind because of their high charges.


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## froggy59

i should be taking my mh in for warranty work on monday to the chorley depot.


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## bognormike

note

I have merged two threads about Discover Leisure to ensure everything is kept in one thread.

Also made it a sticky  


Mike
Mods team


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## pomme1

Hymervanman,

......and then almost certainly find yourself charged with wasting police time!


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## Rapide561

*Discover*

Addie's post is pretty much the fairest thought at this stage for customers who have vehicles on Discover premises.

It is surprising that the branches were not open over the weekend though as these are likely to be the best days for selling etc.

I am sure more will be known tomorrow.

Russell


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## SpeedyDux

erneboy said:


> Didn't know that Peter always having wholly owned my businesses as a sole trader, limited status never appealed to me. I thought it might be rather limiting.
> 
> Addie, I regard it as industry news and am not bothered about who was first to post it. The main thing was that Peter was accurate in what he said and posted only the facts. I imagine that no matter what his personal thoughts are on the company he does not like to see any company in his sector fail as it damages confidence in the whole sector, Alan.


I agree wholeheartedly with Alan.

One high-profile insolvency can start a domino effect in a business sector, because one failure can mean that the Banks tend to view the entire sector as riskier, and so the Banks' directors could start cutting their financial exposure to other motorhome and caravan dealerships. Under the Banks' typical standard finance facility terms and conditions they can call in fixed loans and reduce overdraft limits without giving any notice period to allow their business customer to refinance elsewhere.

This domino effect can tip an otherwise solvent and viable business over the edge and force it into administration, unfortunately. The Banks simply don't care. They don't like the smell of risk even when it is irrational. I have witnessed them trashing good viable owner-managed businesses in one sector of the leisure industry with strong balance sheets, putting hundreds of employees on the dole, as well as causing Directors to be made bankrupt on their personal guarantees and lose their houses, totally without justification on business grounds. They can do this with impunity knowing there is no legal comeback against the Bank. It is just one more thing that is rotten in the financial industry in Britain.

I sincerely hope that the Discover Leisure insolvency doesn't cause a similar domino effect across the whole sector.

SD


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## SomersetSteve

SpeedyDux said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't know that Peter always having wholly owned my businesses as a sole trader, limited status never appealed to me. I thought it might be rather limiting.
> 
> Addie, I regard it as industry news and am not bothered about who was first to post it. The main thing was that Peter was accurate in what he said and posted only the facts. I imagine that no matter what his personal thoughts are on the company he does not like to see any company in his sector fail as it damages confidence in the whole sector, Alan.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly with Alan.
> 
> One high-profile insolvency can start a domino effect in a business sector, because one failure can mean that the Banks tend to view the entire sector as riskier, and so the Banks' directors could start cutting their financial exposure to other motorhome and caravan dealerships. Under the Banks' typical standard finance facility terms and conditions they can call in fixed loans and reduce overdraft limits without giving any notice period to allow their business customer to refinance elsewhere.
> 
> This domino effect can tip an otherwise solvent and viable business over the edge and force it into administration, unfortunately. The Banks simply don't care. They don't like the smell of risk even when it is irrational. I have witnessed them trashing good viable owner-managed businesses in one sector of the leisure industry with strong balance sheets, putting hundreds of employees on the dole, as well as causing Directors to be made bankrupt on their personal guarantees and lose their houses, totally without justification on business grounds. They can do this with impunity knowing there is no legal comeback against the Bank. It is just one more thing that is rotten in the financial industry in Britain.
> 
> I sincerely hope that the Discover Leisure insolvency doesn't cause a similar domino effect across the whole sector.
> 
> SD
Click to expand...

It is a serious risk, there will also be suppliers who don't get paid who will also be at risk of this sort of treatment from the banks. Something has to done about them before they completely destroy small businesses in this country. Much of the stock of new caravans and motorhomes will presumably be on a consignment basis so the supplier will presumably get them back but others will lose out.

Meanwhile I feel sad about the staff being made redundant (been there recently) and sympathy with those who can't get their vehicles back from workshops, can't get warranty work done or who have paid deposits.


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## Addie

*Re: Discover*



Rapide561 said:


> Addie's post is pretty much the fairest thought at this stage for customers who have vehicles on Discover premises.
> 
> It is surprising that the branches were not open over the weekend though as these are likely to be the best days for selling etc.
> 
> I am sure more will be known tomorrow.
> 
> Russell


Russell,

Branches were not open over the weekend as the collapse happened on Thursday and the administrators would have moved to re-secure the companies assets (sites) on the Friday. The company is no longer trading and staff are no longer employed.

I would expect KPMG to issue a statement themselves at some point this week.


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## SomersetSteve

It may seem odd but it is illegal for companies to trade when insolvent, as the administrators could see no way the business could become solvent they had no choice but to close even though sales of accessories etc could have reduced the deficit.

Strangest case of this I've experienced was waiting to be served in Be Wise, goods in one hand, money in the other, when there was an announcement "the store is now closing" and the cashier refused to take my money - or let me have the socks. When Mountstephens bakery chain went under the shops were left fully stocked with perishable foods for months until they became a health hazard.


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## DTPCHEMICALS

One thing for sure the administraters will make a tidyy sum for themselves.


Dave p


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## SomersetSteve

Liquidators run the risk of there not being sufficient realizable assets to cover their fees so build in a risk element. Now do these plates belong to Discover or do they belong to the supplier under retention of title?


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## DTPCHEMICALS

SomersetSteve said:


> Liquidators run the risk of there not being sufficient realizable assets to cover their fees so build in a risk element. Now do these plates belong to Discover or do they belong to the supplier under retention of title?


Been there. Retention of title means sod all

Dave p


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## bognormike

yes it does Dave! I did it a while ago when I worked for an electronics company. We had conditions of sale that included a retention of title clause. A customer went down owing us money, and we contacted the liquidator and we were invited to go an collect the goods that they had in stock (proving they were manufactured/ supplied by us etc). It didn't cover everything that was owing, but at least we were able to offset some of the debt.


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## bognormike

looks like there's no way back

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/busi...ators_fail_to_save_discover_leisure_1_3881372

complete shut down


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## Svend

*Discover Leisure - Adria Coral S660SL still imprisoned?*

I am new to this motor-homing thing - or had hoped to be! Also new to this form of communication - a forum.

First of all - a great pity for the staff at Discover Leisure - whom I found very helpful and approachable. Especially 10 days ago when we put down a deposit on a two-year old Adria Coral S660SL. The vehicle had only come in a few days before, the owner having given up motor-homing, apparently. My wife and I had been looking for this sort of single bed layout for a while, offered at a reasonable price.

Expecting to get confirmation of the collection day, about Wednesday this week, I rang them this Monday afternoon only to be told the Administrators were next door.....

So the forum discussion on Discover Leisure and implications has been very enlightening. And it is comforting to know that my credit card deposit will eventually be returned if the worst comes to the worst.

But we really like the layout of this Adria. Clearly in a difficult cash situation, I presume that Discover Leisure would not have paid for the vehicle, so it is presumably still owned by the private owner. Any ideas as to how I can contact him and buy it direct? I am told I am not allowed to trace him through the registration number of the vehicle.


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## BillCreer

*Re: Discover Leisure - Adria Coral S660SL still imprisoned?*



Svend said:


> I am new to this motor-homing thing - or had hoped to be! Also new to this form of communication - a forum.
> 
> First of all - a great pity for the staff at Discover Leisure - whom I found very helpful and approachable. Especially 10 days ago when we put down a deposit on a two-year old Adria Coral S660SL. The vehicle had only come in a few days before, the owner having given up motor-homing, apparently. My wife and I had been looking for this sort of single bed layout for a while, offered at a reasonable price.
> 
> Expecting to get confirmation of the collection day, about Wednesday this week, I rang them this Monday afternoon only to be told the Administrators were next door.....
> 
> So the forum discussion on Discover Leisure and implications has been very enlightening. And it is comforting to know that my credit card deposit will eventually be returned if the worst comes to the worst.
> 
> But we really like the layout of this Adria. Clearly in a difficult cash situation, I presume that Discover Leisure would not have paid for the vehicle, so it is presumably still owned by the private owner. Any ideas as to how I can contact him and buy it direct? I am told I am not allowed to trace him through the registration number of the vehicle.


Hi,

Unlike you I think the previous owner will have part-x'd and will no longer be the owner.


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## bognormike

*Re: Discover Leisure - Adria Coral S660SL still imprisoned?*



Svend said:


> I am new to this motor-homing thing - or had hoped to be! Also new to this form of communication - a forum.
> 
> First of all - a great pity for the staff at Discover Leisure - whom I found very helpful and approachable. Especially 10 days ago when we put down a deposit on a two-year old Adria Coral S660SL. The vehicle had only come in a few days before, the owner having given up motor-homing, apparently. My wife and I had been looking for this sort of single bed layout for a while, offered at a reasonable price.
> 
> Expecting to get confirmation of the collection day, about Wednesday this week, I rang them this Monday afternoon only to be told the Administrators were next door.....
> 
> So the forum discussion on Discover Leisure and implications has been very enlightening. And it is comforting to know that my credit card deposit will eventually be returned if the worst comes to the worst.
> 
> But we really like the layout of this Adria. Clearly in a difficult cash situation, I presume that Discover Leisure would not have paid for the vehicle, so it is presumably still owned by the private owner. Any ideas as to how I can contact him and buy it direct? I am told I am not allowed to trace him through the registration number of the vehicle.


well, your first contact should be with KPMG's hotline -see KPMG hot line for Discover

and register the fact that you paid a deposit by credit card. Then make an enquiry about the vehicle. It could be that they paid for it and there's no finance on it. It might be worth making an offer?


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## SomersetSteve

Most used motorhomes and caravans at Discover will have been under a stocking plan from Black Horse or similar so the finance co. will now own them and be looking for other dealers to take them on.


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## bluereiver

I have contacted the administrators by email and have received an acknowledgement. I am now awaiting contact to make arrangements to collect my motorhome from Discover at Birtley.

KPMG have been very prompt in responding so far and I will be relieved to get my Sundance back. I also have no inkling as to how much of the warranty work has been done.

No doubt all will be revealed hopefully sooner rather than later.

Sam


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## Dill

A friend of mine bought a MH from there Chorley branch last June. After parting with nearly £53K on his way home he had to stop on hard shoulder no brakes. He had it towed to nearest Fiat Dealer. Long story but dealer confirmed nothing had been checked prior to collection, leaking brake hose was the problem, low on engine oil plus a lot of other things that should have been done that wasn't. 

I feel for those who's vehicles are in workshops that can't get them back and for many who have left deposits, also the employee's that did a good job. I think they have got what they deserve. 

Dill


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## rayc

The writing was on the wall two years ago when they closed their southern branches overnight. I had bought a new Chausson from their Portsmouth branch les than a month before and they washed their hands of me. i got no support at all and when Iasked who they recommended to take over the warranty they replied " We cannot help you". They also 'forgot' to reset the warranty start date to the registration date.


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## mikebeaches

rayc said:


> The writing was on the wall two years ago when they closed their southern branches overnight. I had bought a new Chausson from their Portsmouth branch les than a month before and they washed their hands of me. i got no support at all and when Iasked who they recommended to take over the warranty they replied " We cannot help you". They also 'forgot' to reset the warranty start date to the registration date.


Mendip Caravans was a well-run family business near Weston-super-Mare, until Discover got their hands on it a few years ago. We used to go regularly as it was only 10 minutes up the road from us. The original firm provided excellent service when we purchased a caravan from them. Good trade-in, after-sales and warranty experience etc.

Most of the staff appeared to change after Discover acquired the business and what a hopeless lot the new ones appeared to be, in our opinion. We were tempted by a rather nice used motorhome they had in stock, but the staff just didn't have a clue - so in the end we didn't purchase. Nonetheless, sad when Mendip was closed down in 2009 - I still moan about Discover to this day, every time I drive past.

And another thing - I always thought their website was awful. When we were looking to buy a MH I was interested to investigate what vehicles they had at other sites. I wrote a polite and constructive note to the MD suggesting the website wasn't helping me identify a suitable van. Reply from a PA thanking me and advising they were 'in the process of re-developing the site'. Never saw it improve significantly in the following years or months. Frankly, it was pathetic for a business of their size.

Sadly, I was not at all surprised by the final outcome last week.

Very sorry for all folk directly caught up in the unpleasant mess.


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## Dill

I am told that warranties have gone up in smoke also. I think my mate paid £375 for gold cover. I hope for all concerned this is not the case.

Dill


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## bognormike

Dill said:


> I am told that warranties have gone up in smoke also. I think my mate paid £375 for gold cover. I hope for all concerned this is not the case.
> 
> Dill


not sure what the situation would be - if it was directly with Discover then they would indeed be lost. Insurance based may be different, though, but who would do the work if you needed to claim? :?:


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## bluereiver

My experience of Discover at the Birtley branch has been a lot different from some of the views expressed above. I bought my first motorhome from them 3 years ago and the whole transaction was painless. Also they were prepared to take on the warranty work on my current Sundance when others were not (because I had bought the van elsewhere) The supplying dealer having moved to the west coast of Scotland and after the hassle with the lack of pre delivery checking I have no confidence in them anyway.

Back to the present - I have been contacted by the people at Birtley and have arranged to pick up my van on Friday, but the warranty work has not been done.

Sam


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## rayc

Dill said:


> I am told that warranties have gone up in smoke also. I think my mate paid £375 for gold cover. I hope for all concerned this is not the case.
> 
> Dill


The warranty was with the 'insurance' company not Discover and any repairer who is prepared to work for the labour rate the insurer will pay could do the work.
If it was anything like the Gold Cover I got with my used MH from Marquis then it is not worth the paper it is written on, let alone £375. A multitude of exemptions and remember it is 'Breakdown' insurance which is tightly defined. There are also conditions that reputable repairers will not to work to.


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## Waggie

Wow been away on Business for a couple of days and ring them to go collect my Van thats with them for appraisal of warranty work and i am being told i will have to wait for KPMG to release it too me........its not theirs i want it back now !!


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## bognormike

Waggie said:


> Wow been away on Business for a couple of days and ring them to go collect my Van thats with them for appraisal of warranty work and i am being told i will have to wait for KPMG to release it too me........its not theirs i want it back now !!


phone them up on the hotline mentioned above - they will let you have it 8)


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## thegamwellsmythes

We bought our motorhome from Discover at Delamere a couple of years ago and the whole process was painful. It needed a new control panel from SEA in Italy which we were assured was ordered. 

It hadn't been ordered at all, took about three months in the end to sort it out. I know these things take quite a while to get from Italy to the UK but to not order it and say it has been ordered was rubbish. I think someone was sacked in the end, other issues as well.

Anyway they sorted it out in the end although the handover process was pretty poor, there was even a previous users "stuff" in the chemical loo cassette. As I say poor.

The only reason we bought from them was the staggeringly cheap price we paid for our motorhome. They reckoned they were selling off old stock ready for the new season, this was in November, so probably true. We got our 2½ year old (at the time) SEA New Life 1 with a bike rack, ladder and roof rack thrown in for £17,945. You still see them advertised now for £22-23K. Mad.

They did give us a two year warranty though which is from the AA and has been very useful as at the first habitation check they found damp in the gas cupboard. They sorted new panels at no cost to us, very good service. I would expect the warranty will be valid elswhere as it is from the AA not Discover.

To sum up, our experience was shocking from the sales people but pretty good from the service people.


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## bluereiver

My Sundance is just over 2 years old and the warranty is with the manufacturer (Swift) so the work could be done by any Swift dealer willing to take it on. The work is to remedy a damp problem found at the habitation check.

My problem is the shortage of Swift dealers within easy commuting distance.

I have had to wait a few days for the administrator to do his preliminary work but I have been kept well informed of the situation as relates to my van.

Sam


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## Waggie

I had a call from KPMG as i posted earlier, have been and collected the Van from Darlington, Its a shame as i have had very good service from Discover at Darlington.

So sorry for all the Peeps who were employed by Discover.


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## commuter

latest link from sheffield

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/regional/caravan_retailer_in_administration_1_3881450


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## 747

My present van was bought from DL in Birtley. They gave me a good part ex price and went to great lengths to sort out the niggles in my van. It had been in stock for some time and they fitted new parts (batteries, tyres etc.) with no quibble at all and even threw in free storage for 6 months.

I feel sorry for the sales staff as they were normally very helpful. Apart from the lady I spoke to when I ordered a new TV aerial in January 2010..... I am still waiting for it. :? :lol:


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## Enock

I feel very sorry for all the mechanics, shop staff etc that have lost their jobs...

But following what was certainly the worst customer buying experience I've ever been exposed to, I'm not surprised they've folded....

My experience was enough to ensure I never spent another penny with discover, and due to the way I was treated they lost out on at least another £35k worth of upgrade business... 

I wonder how many more were like me, and never went back??


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