# Mystery van?



## geraldandannie

Practical Motorhome arrived yesterday. In the letters page, Margaret Griffiths writes on downsizing to a Vanmaster Endeavour. This follows a small article in MMM (I think) where she again describes the downsizing, and mentions that she was responsible for the sale of 4 or 5 vans to others who had seen them out and about.

Anyone know anything about this van? Vanmaster are on the web with caravans >-- here --<, but there is no mention of a motorhome.

There is a short report on the Vanmaster Troodos >-- here --<, but again, no information.

I've emailed the company this morning, so hopefully will hear something back from them, although I suspect they will be like most motorhome manufacturers, and will be unaware of the value of providing information electronically. The lack of any information at all on the website is an appalling omission, I think, especially in mind of the two fairly high profile pieces of magazine PR.

Gerald


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## Pusser

I too would like to see more info and I am particularly interested in the all size belly holding double bed.

But IH seem to have done a similar thing but not much in the way of pictures. http://www.ihleisure.co.uk/vehicle_list.php?type=NEW


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## geraldandannie

We had a close look at IH at Excel. We really liked the fixed rear panel, which allowed an access door to the under seat / bed storage area. And the quality was impressive. I've just requested the latest brochure, when it's ready.

I'll post back here when (or if) Vanmaster get back to me. Don't go doing anything rash like holding your breath.

Gerald


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## geraldandannie

Well, we had an email early the very next day, asking for our postal address. And yesterday, we received some information.

Brochures showing vans on the new Fiat aren't available until the end of February, but we had a short brochure on the 2006 Troodos, and a photocopy of a report from some magazine. It looks nice, although you can't tell much from the photos. Definitely worth a look. There's an invite to visit the factory (in Wigan) to see the van.

Gerald


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## mauramac

Yes we too looking at the Troodos, but like you saw nothing on the web site. Did discover it was VERY VERY expensive though :evil: over £40K I believe....well I think thats very expensive anyway.


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## geraldandannie

Sorry - forgot to say  

List price of Troodos (1st Sept 06) is £39,995 on either the Renault Master 2.5 or the new Fiat Ducato 3.0, ex-works.

It's not bad, compared to Timberland and IH. Only a look at the van in the flesh will tell if it's worth it.

Gerald


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## Pusser

Seems to me in this day and age, to knock up a webpage on their website with pix and tech info would not seem incredibly difficult. Sod the brochure, I only need webpages.


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## geraldandannie

Totally agree, Pusser. I find it irritating in the extreme that people don't understand the value of online information. Even if it were just a load of pictures they'd taken, it would give us some idea.

I watched the "Pay Your Mortgage Off in Two Years" program in the week. This week's couple had a dog-walking business (quite small scale) that she wanted to expand into pet products, and therefore needed a website. She had to wait weeks and weeks and weeks to get the website done, and missed out on sales from a show because they had nowhere to refer people to. Again, a few photos and guide prices and a "new website coming in 3 weeks - signup here for our newsletter" button would have been much better than nothing at all.

The male half of the relationship wanted a website to enable him to rent his, and others', properties in Bulgaria. Again, he waited weeks and weeks, and even went to a meeting with a property advisor would could have put hundreds of property owners' names / addresses his way, as possible clients, except he didn't have a website he could see and judge.

Ah well.

Gerald


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## mauramac

gerannpasa said:


> Sorry - forgot to say  List price of Troodos (1st Sept 06) is £39,995 on either the Renault Master 2.5 or the new Fiat Ducato 3.0, ex-works. It's not bad, compared to Timberland and IH. Only a look at the van in the flesh will tell if it's worth it.Gerald


Where did you get that price from Gerald? The article I saw definitely said something like £41K. I will have to go back and search through huge pile of mags on my living room floor - I even pointed it out to hubby because we are looking at IH van and so was interested in this one.

Maura
ps. agree with you Pusser, give me websites and good ones at that, not usual rubbish with no piccies. Nothing worse than all that text and no pictures or only 1 of the outside of the vehicle  
IH Campers is very poor website IMO, considering what you pay for their vans, they could spend a bit more on the web content. When you live so far away as we do, the info you get on the web is really important.


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## Minerva

The "Endeavour" name tag is going to be a little confusing if any other companys take it up i.e Vanmaster and Timberland, at least the later has a web page at

www.timberlandmotorhomes.com

Bill


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## carol

gerannpasa said:


> Practical Motorhome arrived yesterday. In the letters page, Margaret Griffiths writes on downsizing to a Vanmaster Endeavour. T
> 
> Gerald


Hi Gerald,

I telephoned them a couple of days ago, as I saw a picture in the Motorhome Monthly mag I picked up free at the Shepton Show.

It appears that they are branching out into motorhomes, and do not have a vehicle yet for inspection, but have kindly sent me through a small brochure on their motorhome called the Troodos (I think the Endeavour is either an IH or Timberland model)

The Vanmaster Troodos is built on the Renault chassis and from what I understood from my conversation with them, they do a bespoke build, presumably using the Troodos as the base, but there must therefore be scope for a certain amount of change to suit the buyer.

They hope to build 12 a year, so there won't be that many around, but the finish does look rather nice and the bathroom looks good

I can give a bit more into on external and internal if you want it, let me know...The person to contact is Kevin Prescott on 01257 424 999 .

Ah just read the notes he also sent, the Endeavour whih was built on the old model Fiat is no longer being produced by Fiat. They were waiting delivery of the new Fiats and they will be producing Pecos and Troodos... There I should have read it all first....

They are in Wigan...

Troodos - Prices were £39,995 on LWB Renault Master 2.5 
and same price for the 3.0

PECOs, £38,995 for either 2.5 or 3ltr

Other list of extras for the base and conversion.

Carol


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## kbsserv

*vamnaster*

Hi

Gerald,i have a copy of the MMM owners report article,4 pages if you want me to scan it & PM you, let me know

Regards
Karl


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## mangothemadmonk

I livejust up the road about 10 mins from the Vanmaster workshops in Standish. Shall I go and take some sneeky piccies from the bushes in my camo gear :werecomingforyou: 

Johnny F


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## Pusser

mangothemadmonk said:


> I livejust up the road about 10 mins from the Vanmaster workshops in Standish. Shall I go and take some sneeky piccies from the bushes in my camo gear :werecomingforyou:
> 
> Johnny F


Brill idea. Go under the cover of day otherwise pix won't come out. Also kindly point out to them that tempting tasters of a product on a website produce a desire. A desire grows to an absolute need and that grows into a sale.


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## mauramac

gerannpasa said:


> List price of Troodos (1st Sept 06) is £39,995 on either the Renault Master 2.5 or the new Fiat Ducato 3.0, ex-works.
> Gerald


MMM December 2006. page 43. 3rd column down (I quote)

"Vanmaster has moved into motorcaravan production with a range of panel van conversions. Pictured is Troodos on long wheelbase 2.5dCi Renault Master (also available on 3 litre LWB Fiat Ducato) LEFT: Inside, Troodos offers a seemingly conventional upfront lounge with swivel cab seats.... but the surprise is a luxury washroom across the rear complete with separate shower compartment. *Prices for the Troodos start at around £41K OTR."*

 I knew I had seen that figure quoted somewhere 

Still I would prefer the lower figure :roll:

Maura


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## geraldandannie

Hi, Maura

Sorry, I should have got back to you before. I think that 'my' price is "ex-works", and 'yours' is an On The Road price, as you stated. I suspect that's the difference.

Johnny - if you do go (which would be fantastic), make sure you mention MHF, and the interest their van is creating. You never know when <cough> discounts <cough> might be forthcoming. Of course, as initiator of this thread, under MHF rules I get the most discount, if there is one going :wink:

Gerald


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## mauramac

gerannpasa said:


> Hi, Maura
> 
> Sorry, I should have got back to you before. I think that 'my' price is "ex-works", and 'yours' is an On The Road price, as you stated. I suspect that's the difference.
> 
> Johnny - if you do go (which would be fantastic), make sure you mention MHF, and the interest their van is creating. You never know when <cough> discounts <cough> might be forthcoming. Of course, as initiator of this thread, under MHF rules I get the most discount, if there is one going :wink:
> 
> Gerald


Ha Ha, trust you to think of that :lol: Would that be a discount on your price or mine tho???

Perhaps we should all write to Vanmaster as a GROUP and see what they offer....bit like bulk buying eh? :lol:


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## geraldandannie

mauramac said:


> Perhaps we should all write to Vanmaster as a GROUP and see what they offer....bit like bulk buying eh? :lol:


Nice thought, Maura, but if, as Carol says, they're only going to make 12 a year, and with the publicity they have, I suspect they'd reject any request for a discount.

I've read on the Autotrail thread >> here << that they are refusing all requests for a discount, as they already have a 5 month waiting list.

Maybe I'll buy a van, like my dad did in the sixties, and convert it myself. After all, it's just a case of bolting cooky things and bathroomy things in the back. Throw in a mattress, and away you go. Maybe I'll call it the Geraldovan Endeavour. 

Gerald


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## AdriaTwin

*Vanmaster and alternatives*

My wife & I also spent a LOT of time investigating panel van conversions, but because we had specific requirements, we eliminated may of the well known brands. We needed a fixed rear bed with easy access which eliminated Timberland and IH (although the IH has a fixed rear bed the access hatch is too small) and both were (IMNSHO) far too expensive, which is why we bought theAdria Twin. It was about £8,000 to £10,000 cheaper that either of those makes, was better buit than the Devon and the Trigano (which also does not have a fixed rear bed). Our Twin with optionla Red metallic paint, passenger airbag, cruise control (essential) and Air-Con came out at £33,000. The ony other option (in hindsight) we should have specified was the 2.8JTD not the standard 2.3JTD engine as teh extra 200Kg payload would have been useful for our diving equipment.

I was quite unamused when Practical Motorhome reviewed the Adria Twin last year against the Trigano Tribute and two others and completely got their facts whong (even using a 2005 model against the 2006 of all three others in thh test).

Lastly, Adria have increased trheir dealer network in the UK and the best dealer we have found is Premier Motorhomes near Chichester, West Sussex (www.premiermotorhomesltd.co.uk

Tony


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## AdriaTwin

*More on Adria Twin*

Apologies for the spelling mistakes in my previous posting.

Below is a copy of the letter I sent (via email, fax and post) for inclusion within Practical Motorhomes and for which I never received a reply or even an acknowledgement!

We will not be renewing our subscription to PM. (if you read their letters pages they will not include any readers letters with anything that contradicts them or disagrees with the magasine, except when they spend three times the column inches making a highly aggressive reply).

Dear Sir / Madam,

We received our eagerly awaited September copy of Practical Motorhome in the post and were pleased to note the article testing the four High-Tops, including (we thought) our own Adria Van Twin; however, as soon as we started reading the article we became increasingly unhappy with the review.

The first thing we noted was the incorrect name on the main page, with the 'van described as the Twin M, which it clearly is not. The Twin M is the Adria unit based on the Renault Master (hence M for Master) not the Fiat Ducato based Twin, and, in the UK, the Twin M is not available with a fixed rear bed.

Secondly, whereas all the other three vans all appear to be the current models, the Adria tested was obviously last years model, even displaying an 05 number plate and externally with different decals. There are also some other significant differences between the 05 and 06 versions. All 06 models include the following standard equipment:

1.	Electric step. 
2.	Split worktop above hob and sink 
3.	Smev grill with spark ignition fitted under hob (exactly the same unit as fitted to the Trigano) 
4.	Twin Heike roof lights
5.	Smoke detector/alarm
6.	Five year warranty (the only van in the test with this as standard).

There were also several inaccuracies; including the statement that the Twin has diesel fired blown-air heating, a la Trigano, whereas the Adria is in fact fitted with a Truma Combi hot water / blown air LPG / 240v unit.

Although you mention the ease of use and comfort of the Adria's fixed rear bed, you failed to state that it has a proper sprung mattress and slatted base, you also omitted to include the large area of storage underneath, an very important feature for many owners, especially for my wife and I as we require this space for all of our Scuba diving equipment.

Another detail missed from your review is that, as with the Trigano, the table in the Adria can also be used outside; attached to a rail fitted to the rear panel of the cupboard containing the grill.

We also were stunned to read that you awarded the Trigano five stars for their 'flexible' bed layouts, even though you stated that the Trigano has the "least comfortable sleeping arrangements but paradoxically the most choice". As, in common with, I suspect, the majority of Motorhome owners, we use our van as a way to relax and remove ourselves from the pressures of daily life, and sleeping and resting are a significant part of the relaxation process. One has to pose the question: How many uncomfortable positions would we want to sleep in? The obvious answer is NONE. This seems to defeat the entire purpose of owning a Motorhome.

We also noted that the reviewer stated that because of the rear bed, the Adria had limited living area, but your reviewer did not seem to feel this was an issue with the Trigano, even though with the Trigano's bed made up the sliding door was all but obstructed and the bed completely fills the entire living space, which, in our opinion, is an even greater limitation, as if either Linda or I wish to lie down the other can still occupy the lounge area.

My wife and I spent the entire last year investigating a huge range of motorhomes, and included several models into our shortlist from other manufacturers, including the Trigano and many top UK and European conversions. In addition to build quality we also looked for several specific factors including:

a.	Hot water / heated blown air heating.
b.	Combined electric cassette toilet and shower
c.	Space for two LPG cylinders
d.	An open feel, with a large amount of opening windows, roof lights and doors.
e.	Fully winterised with full insulation for all year round use.
f.	Blinds and flyscreens on all windows (no curtains)
g.	Fixed Bed with easily accessible storage underneath.

The comfortable fixed bed seemed to be the deciding factor as we did not want the hassle of making up a bed each night and having to move around all the Scuba equipment in the living area before doing so, as was the case with our previous Transit conversion. A fixed bed also offered us the right amount of storage underneath for our Scuba gear. This immediately eliminated several models, including the Trigano.
We have limited off-street parking and also preferred the full access to the rear under-bed storage via the standard double rear van doors, the light and feeling of openness afforded by a large sliding side door, and the ease of driving, especially in town centres, a panel van conversion was chosen rather than a small coachbuilt or low profile. 
We eliminated many of the UK motorhome conversions, as we could not justify the 40% difference in cost, some were over £41,000. This was followed by a comparison of the overall build quality of each unit, taking into account the cost; this left us with the sole choice of the Adria. Our choice was confirmed by the standard Adria five year warranty; therefore The Winner is: The 2006 Adria Twin!
Since we bought our Adria Twin in May, with some factory options including Cruise Control, ABS brakes, passenger airbag and metallic paint, we have covered almost 3,500 miles including trips to the Lake District and Ireland. These trips have confirmed that we made the right choice.
Obviously no motorhome is perfect, and there are a few details we have found that we will resolve, such as:
•	Installing a second 65Ah leisure battery as the one fitted seems a little too limiting for sites with no hook-up.
•	Reducing the height of the two front seats so they are the same height as fitted to a standard Fiat Ducato van, with the use of Tek Seating's products.
•	Replacing the Blaupunkt CD/Radio/GPS with a CD/MP3/USB/radio and separate Tom-Tom Navigator unit (on a PDA) 
•	Fitting a LPG/knockout gas alarm
•	Fitting adjustable air assistance for the rear suspension (mainly due to the weight of the Scuba diving equipment)
With the sole exception of the size of the leisure battery, I would envisage that the above modifications would have been needed on any panel van conversion we had chosen.

N.B. Can you please correct the description in your Buyers Guide describing the 'Van-Twin' as a 'Van-Win'.

Sincere Regards,

Anthony and Linda Howard
Proud owners of a Metallic Red Adria Twin.


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