# Using Butane in the winter



## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

We are probably going to Edinburgh to do tourist type things next week for two overnights. We don't usually use the MH in the winter, but I'm getting brave :lol: I'm not really - the Trauma heater keeps us very comfortable on cooler nights.

Just popped over to view another forum and I noticed a thread on the amount of gas used on a summer trip. Now that is not a problem for us - carry plenty for our 7 weeks in France etc. However, some bright spark (!?!) brought up the Butane verses Propane question. Now I'm worried about the "freezing" point of Butane. Something about not evaporating below a certain temperature. Does anyone know? Edinburgh must be one of the coldest cities in the UK and I want to go in November. Oh well.

If I just went and did things I would not have all these worries    

Hope this is in the right section - it's technical for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If not Mods. please move to correct one - thanks.

Sue


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Following a butane freeze up many years ago, I now only use propane.


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## LadyJ (May 9, 2005)

Profane best for winter usage as butane will freeze.

We use profane all year round


Jacquie


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Sue,

Below 4 deg C butane loses its ability to generate gas from the liquid that it is in the bottle. However, that doesn't mean so long as the ambient air temperature is above 4 deg C, you are OK, because the bottle COOLS itself while you are drawing gas off. Some people try to stave off the inevitable by insulating the bottle, but unfortunately this is quite the opposite of what is needed.

Of course, if you can KEEP warm air moving INSIDE the locker, you may be alright with butane. But if you intend using the van when it is cold, then it is far better to use propane, otherwise you WILL profane at the butane 

Dave


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Sue,

With Auld Reekie (Edinburgh) being on the east coast it does get quite cold.

Rita and I were there at the CC site in August 2005 and it was a really cold breeze blowing in off the sea even then.

As others have said, use Propane all year round. The advantages are,

1. More efficient flame
2. Much lower operating temperature
3. Cheaper than Butane.

J & R


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Ok im stupid but i can never remember
is butane the red or blue bottle

i use the red all the time


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## 89682 (Jun 4, 2005)

propane is in the red bottle.

regards 
Herman


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks Herman
at least i wont freeze next weekend


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## harburner (Oct 20, 2006)

*Auld Reekie*

I might be a bit worried if you were going in January or February but no problem in November. Yes it does get a bit cold but normally caused by an easterly wind not by frost. Hope you enjoy your trip


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

As stated above the liquid Butane and liquid propane do not freeze or get anywhere near freezing and normal atmospheric temperatures.

The ability of the liquid is give off a vapour depends upon the temperature of the liquid. As the temperature drops less and less gas is given off.

Around about 4 Celsius the amount given off by butane is negligible whereas propane will continue to give off vapour down to around -40 Celsius.

Per kg propane gives off slightly less energy than butane so I believe that per BTU butane is cheaper than propane. If I am incorrect I am sure that the error will soon be corrected.


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*Gas Bottles*

Hi

If staying on a CC or C&CC site or any place with hook up, and able to boil a kettle (not using gas) take a hot water bottle with you, :? not for you, :lol: but to keep the gas bottles warm, Had to use this method in Inverness a few nights when temp was down to -5*c, OK now I have LPG bottle fitted,

My heater is behind the gas locker, was OK when the MH was warm,

Good luck & have fun

Just seen the weather forcast expecting 2 mtrs of snow in the next few weeks...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Colin R......


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

djchapple said:


> Per kg propane gives off slightly less energy than butane so I believe that per BTU butane is cheaper than propane. If I am incorrect I am sure that the error will soon be corrected.


Hi,

It may be me that might be incorrect, however, I was often reminded that propane gave off a hotter flame than propane, thereby making it more efficient than butane. During differing temperatures, that is probably the case.

The building trade have always used Propane, due to it's efficency.

Although the propane cylinders weigh less than the equivalent Butane counterpart, I did not notice a need to change cylinders more regulary.

Jock


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Many thanks to everyone for the replies. More expense if we change to Propane. However, we didn't get the MH to save money thank goodness!

harburner - weather forecast for the days in question mention 1 degree during the night and rain mixed with snow during the day! Think I'll change the direction of travel.

JochandRita - I don't think there is a warm month for Edinburgh however attractive the city is otherwise.

thanks again everyone

Sue


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## wendick (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi

I understand the Butane/Propane freezing bit but why is LPG so different why will it not freeze? is this a better option the either Butane or Propane for travelling with?

Thanks


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*Cold Gas*

LPG is Propane (or should be propane) and will freeze at a far lower temperature than Butane.

Best of luck

Colin R......


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

LPG is also Butane...or rather Butane is also a LPG*. The freezing temp is not the concern. The vaporisng temperature is the important one. Propane starts vaporising above -45°C, so it is more versatile for general use. Butane starts vaporising above -2°C ( but not enough to make it useable in a motorhome 4°C is a good working low useable temperature)

*liquefied petroleum gas

Mike


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Well, the term LPG applies to both Butane and Propane, but isn't the context here that LPG is being used as a term for Autogas?

If so, Autogas is a Propane/Butane mix that varies with country and season. However, in the UK it is predominantly, though not exclusively, propane. The only problem here occurs typically when skiing, when an accumulation of butane can occur in the tank.

Dave


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## wendick (Dec 16, 2005)

Yes this is the point i was trying to get at so if i did have a Gaslow system fitted and topped up say in Portugal and if i was still using that fill on returning to UK in winter months then in theory it could freeze due to the mixture? Is this a down side to having a re-fillable system fitted?

Thanks


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

wendick said:


> Is this a down side to having a re-fillable system fitted?
> 
> Thanks


Look here<

And Here <<


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## wendick (Dec 16, 2005)

Thanks skypal that has explained it all........................

Regards


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Hallow everyone - just back from the Edinburgh trip. OH thought it would be OK with the butane. I reserved judgement and took the small electric fan heater just in case.

Harburner - November and sunny it may be but it did freeze! 

Cowly - neat trick with the hot water bottles worked - many thanks. Next time I can use them in the bed as on the way home we went via the "gas" man and he attached a new pig tail to the fixed regulator and swapped the full blue cylinder for a full red one. Got a back up at the same time just in case. 

Otherwise the trip was a total success and we are planning to use the MH far more this winter than in the past. Can thoroughly recommend the CC Edinburgh site. They are a bit regimented - we thought we might be excommunicated when our Trauma dumped its water on the way in - but it does make for a spotless site. The bus stop outside the gate was so convenient and a day ticket for £2.30 each enabled us to hop on and off buses at will.

Thanks again everyone for your tips and advice.

Sue


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