# Morocco 'The Wedding' Tour - May/June



## wattapain

Hi all - we have booked ffor this and was wondering if we could find out who else is going.
I see val (oldtart) is going and it's not your first time on a DD trip.
Wondered if you (and anyone else on the tour) would like to chat - and offer any suggestions/ideas.
We're taking a slow meander down through France & Spain, ferry crossing on 4th May - so allowing about 3 weeks to travel down - a few stops and some exploration methinks.
Any suggestions re routes/stopovers?
Also, I've seen references to gas availability - what about LPG?
Actually, we prob won't really need to fill up there, as they last pretty well, but would like to check re availability.
Ther are no doubt many more questions that we haven't thought of yet - no doubt someone will find some for us.

Hope to hear from you all 
Terri


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## loddy

Hi Terri
I am going on the tour 8th April but hoping to stay on for the wedding. on our return to Spain I shall be staying at Monte parc, gas in morocco is available the conclusion I came to is you buy a bottle on arrival and dump it when finished (very cheap) I think camping Gaz 907 is the adapter required, may meet up sometime

regards Loddy


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## AutoMax

Sal and I are going on the tour, may be a bit of a dash down to the campsite due to her work commitments. I have emailed DD to enquire about LPG availability in the area ( Gaslow ) especially the acess to the new Euro converters for the filler and they are looking into it for us. Hope to see you later in the year.


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## whistlinggypsy

Code:


[b] LPG availability in the area ( Gaslow ) especially the acess to the new Euro converters for the filler[/b]

I would not think that the new Euro Adapter will have arrived in Morocco so soon, maybe more in Spain (Malaga Repsol for instance).


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## oldtart

Hi Terri
Just read your posting. 

On our first tour with DD in January 2006, we had it REALLy cold. Ray, Hamid and Hassan were really helpful and got us all the equipment we needed, adaptor, regulator. piping and gas bottle in Morocco, just in case!!! 

We actually used this on our next tour as the gas is so much cheaper!!! We now have a new(to us!!) camper, Mirage 5000 which has an LPG tank and two bottles. We also have a BBQ point which Dave says is the easiest way to connect. All you need then is a regulator, piping and bottle in Morocco. 

I hope I've got all the facts right. Dave isn't here at the moment!

We are looking at getting a small two ring cooker to attach to BBQ point for cooking fish outside - something that is a little faster than the Cobb! When we travelled up the coast from Agadir we ate mostly fish that the local fishermen bring to the campsites on their bikes, usually late morning or early afternoon. At Oualidia one even brought a grill; with him to cook it for you!!

Val


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## tony5677

*wedding tour*

Hi to all of you
We are booked on thr wedding tour.
It will be our first trip to Morocco.
WE have a 13Kg propane and a frence le cube 6 Kg butane.
I think that will be enough gas, but I am open to suggestions
Looking forward to meeting all of you

Pat and Tony


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## clipper

Hi All 
First time to Morocco looking forward to it will leave Dover Calais 11th May arrive campsite 26th May My brother lives in France so will spend some time with him on way down.
Clipper
Annette & Dennis


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## wattapain

Hi - great to hear from all of you - really can't wait now - we're off on 4th May so only 2 weeks & a bit!!).  
We're also hoping to arrive at the meetup site a bit earlier - prob around 23rd 'ish - depends on what we find on the way down.
Seen some very interesting looking sites in the ACSI book, with lots of walks/biking possibilities, so we'll see. 
Will possibly get a wifi dongle thingy :? sorted by then so maybe will do a few posts re our journey, but again we'll see!! :roll: 
Terri


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## TinaGlenn

We aren't going on the Wedding trip but are going to Morocco with DD in May and are booked in to Mallaga Monte Parc on our return for a few days, so will see some of you there to say Hi to 8) 

Have got our MHF stickers in the van so pop over and say Hi 

Tina & Glenn


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## wattapain

Hi Tina - will look out for you & visit? - I don't have a sticker at the mo, but one on order so hopefully will be displaying it when we're there.
When are you due to arrive back to Malaga Monte after your trip?
Hope to meet up with you,
Terri


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## TinaGlenn

Our trip finishes on or around the 20th May, we are booked into Malaga Monte Parc from the 22nd until the 27th, we are giving ourselves a few days to get back nice and slow, although Lorraine says no problem if we are there earlier  

We leave next week, so very glad our holidays are on wheels and no air travel involved, although I think our ferry will be full.

All excited and can't wait to have the hand brake off and our wheels turning 8) 

Hope to see some of you at the camp site

Tina


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## asprn

TinaGlenn said:


> ...booked in to Mallaga Monte Parc on our return for a few days, so will see some of you there to say Hi to 8) Have got our MHF stickers in the van so pop over and say Hi


It's not a big site so you'll have no difficulties.  In any case, Brummie Mike (_El Barhombre Residencial)_ will know everyone's name by the time you order your second drink. 

Dougie.


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## billmac

Hi Folks, Yes we are getting excited ready to set off for the Wedding Tour. Leaving UK on the 18th May courtesy of Tesco/Eurotunnel and then amble down using Aires and ASCI sites. Arriving Malaga on 'meet-up' day.

Looking forward to meeting everyone and to an interesting and adventurous journey.

See you soon

Bill and Jackie.


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## tony5677

Hi All
We are going via Eurotunnel on 20th May. Hopefully an easy drive down to the meeting site.
Looking forward to seeing you all

Tony and Pat.


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## AutoMax

We are leaving Uk on 21st May so may see you both on the way down.
Looking forward to meeting you all and the adventure to come.

Bob and Sal


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## hblewett

We are crossing from Calais on 11th May, so will have a steady drive down with time to see things on the way. Looking forward to the trip, especially, of course, Morocco for the first time from us. We are in Amsterdam at the moment but due to return next week for some commitments at home and sort-out before we set off for The Tour. 

Hopefully there will be no problems with getting on the ferries with the current air problems???? I'm surprised that there are no posting relating to that on here - does that mean that if you have a booking there are no problems - I guess (hope) it must.


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## oldtart

Hi everyone
We're really looking forward to meeting you all at Malaga on the 27th. May.

We are leaving the UK, Dover/Dunkirk on Norfolk line on the evening of 9th. May. We are visiting friends who live near Toulouse. Then we spend 15th - 22nd. on the Canal du Midi with them.

Did you know that there is wi-fi at the campsite, Terri? We used it last time we were there.

Not long now!

Val


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## wattapain

Hi Val, yes I know a lot of sites do have wi-fi - in fact it's something I often consider when looking in the ACSI book. Sad I know!! :lol: 
We're sailing on 4th May - taking a long slow journey down - prob going to stay a bit in N Spain - one site we're looking at is at Amposta - site called Eucalyptus Cat 2, on the Ebro delta nature reserve - ACSI no 1565.
No Wi-fi there though, but there you go :roll: 
Also would like to spend a couple of days in Carcasonne - good site there by the looks - ACSI no 1421.
A few more on the way down look interesting - can't really say till we see them though - sometimes they look good, then we don't want to stay more than 1 night.
But that's the joy of MH'ing eh  
Looking forward to this now & can't wait - 2 weeks tomorrow!!! 8) 
Terri


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## oldtart

That's a lovely area around the Ebro Delta Terri. We were there a few years ago and really enjoyed the bird-watching. We did find the sites very busy as we moved South. In fact, we turned inland and went to Navajaz - a lovely site with lots of walks. I remember there was a waterfall nearby that was frozen for the first time in years and people were coming from all around to see it. Mind you it was February!! 

Only spent a day in Carcassone. Loved it! Have you read kate Moss's book Labyrinth set in Carcassone. Super book. We went there with friends we had made on our first DD tour and who live near. We had stayed on with them after the tour and then they went back home and we went to see friends in Portugal. We called in to see them on our way back.

Have a great time. See you at the Malaga campsite.

Val


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## wattapain

Hi folks - just wondering, do you think we need to book these extra nights with the site, or do you think we could just arrive? 
Now I don't normally book sites - just turn up, and do not usually have any problems with this.
Any advice ?
Terri


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## oldtart

Hi Terri
I would suggest you e mail Ray and Debbie about the campsite for any advise.

Is Ronda on your itinary for the journey down? If you haven't been there it's a wonderful place with an excellent campsite and restaurant. We have never booked and there is internet access there! It is a fair walk in to the town but well worth it! It is within easy reach of Alhaurin,and a wonderful journey over the hills. 

Val


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## wattapain

Hi - yes I did that last night & Debbie advised us to contact the site, which I did. Still waiting for a reply as yet, but I prob think it's a good idea to make a booking as it's gonna be a fairly busy weekend there I guess as it's a Feria.   
Ronda sounds good - thanks for the suggestion - will def look into that. We don't normally do cities, at least for more than a couple of days, but this sounds good.  
Awaiting events,
Terri


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## wattapain

Well, I phoned them, and they said it would be fine, I didn't need to book - no problem!!!  
Terri


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## oldtart

Glad you are sorted. If you want any more info on Ronda let me know. I'm trying to sort out places to visit on our way back. We'd like to go to Tereul so I am trying to find campsites! Otherwise it could be wild camping!

Val


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## wattapain

Hi - I'm also thinking about the return journey :lol: .
Went to Chipiona a few years back (pre MH days!). It's round the coast from Gibraltar towards Portugal - the costa del Alhazar I think it's called.
Daresay it's more developed now, but then it was a world away from the costa del Sol - not many Brits - mainly Spaniards there! Lots of other interesting little towns nearby too. 
May have a look again. :lol: 
Also somewhere else is of course Granada. We actually didn't go there , although we did visit the Alhambra - absolutely stunning - an absolute must do!!
We may even go again - but be warned, buy tickets in advance, by phone or you can prob do it online nowadays. We did, and walked past the horrendous queue to the window for 'pre paid tickets' (or the Spanish equivalent )  
Only 12 days to go   
Terri


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## oldtart

Hi Terri
We bought our tickets from the campsite when we went to the Alhambra and went early in the morning, thank goodness! We actually preferred Seville.

See you soon
Val


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## wattapain

Hi Val, never even heard of Tereul ,so had a look and it does look very interesting. Also, although we've been near Seville - never actually been to the city. As I said, we don't really do cities though, much prefer wilderness, mountains, water (either inland or coast). Might be all 'citied out' by then :lol: 
Went to the Pyrrenees once - camped (in a tent!! :wink: ) at Argeles-Gazost & hiked the Cirque du Gavarnie, Breche du Roland etc - amazing place so maybe look in there on the way back. Not sure about those walks though, that was a very long time ago - when our kids were young teenagers! They're now in their thirties :roll: 
So many places - so little time. Even though we're retired and are spending 3 weeks going down and the same coming back, not sure if we're gonna fit everything in - need some time to 'slob' about!! :lol: :lol: 

So will keep looking and researching (playing :lol: )
Terri


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## wattapain

Hi Val, found this site , looked very useful ( after translation :lol: )
http://www.furgovw.org/mapa_furgoperfecto.php. 
saw some near Teruel which may interest you.
also a french one 
http://www.i-campingcar.fr/aires/accueil.htm
gonna try to do some Aires & poss wild camping this time. 8O 
We've never done this before, but have got a few lined up for the way down. 
Watch this space :lol: 
Terri


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## oldtart

Hi Terri
Thanks for info. Can't get on to the first site. We are now thinking of going to Toledo, probably on the return journey. 

Hope the weather improves in France. I had an e mail from our friends who live near Toulouse today and it was raining!!!

I presume you will have the Vicarious Aires Guides for France and Spain and Portugal. The one for Morocco we found very useful if you are planning to stay on.

Val


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## wattapain

Ok - try this
http://www.furgovw.org/mapa_furgoperfecto.php
don't know why, but it works for me :roll:  yes we have the books - as I say, we've never done wild camping except once in italy, where we suddenly came upon a sign telling us the road was closed - no diversion!! Aaargh!!.
But we saw another van parked up and gingerly parked behind.
Didn't sleep well though :roll: 
Only 2 more days at home 8) :lol: 
Terri


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## oldtart

Thanks Terri. That worked going direct from your reply on this site. last time I tried from my e mail. I am notified of replies. Do you know what th numbers and colours represent. I tried clicking on a number and nothing happened.

Val


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## wattapain

Hi Val - no not really sure what it all means, but, if you click on the numbers, you get a sort of van sign, then click on that and you get a sign with 'info' Click that and you gpo to a forum (spanish) with sometimes pics, often a google map ref, and reviews ( again i Espanol) but google translate is quite useful here :wink: .

Terri


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## wattapain

Hi guys - well we're off tomorrow - , sailing at 1200 - hopimg to stop at an Aire at Oissel - P276 in 'All the Aires'.
looks quite OK - never really 'done' Aires before, but really gonna go for it this time! 8) 


Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? 
Terri


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## billmac

Hi Terri,
Will be following 14 days behind so if you have some good stopovers then info would be appreciated. 

See you on the 27th.

Safe Journey, Bill


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## wattapain

Yep Bill, will do - just about ready to go, had to come on here first though :roll: :lol: 
See you all soon,
Terri


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## AutoMax

Safe journey, hope the weather is kind,be 17 days behind you  , wish I could be off now, but habitation check needs to be done and Sally has work commitments.
See you 27th

Bob


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## merfy

*DD Wedding tour*

hi,
We're going too.
We arrived in Spain on 16th April, spent 2 weeks at La Manga, are now 2 weeks in Cabo de Gata then 3 weeks in Castillo de Banos before arriving in Malaga to join the Tour.
I have found a Repsol Garage in Malaga that sells LPG so we'll probably go there to top-up.

Our big worry is if we have enough room to carry sufficient alcohol for all the time in Morocco!!!

Look forward to meeting you


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## oldtart

Thanks for that, Merfy. Do you have an address or post code please? I think we shall be ok. We managed two months in Morocco last September/ October with a tank and two bottles. In fact, we only went over onto a bottle in the last couple of days. 

We did use the Cobb for cooking on a few occasions and have also bought a single ring gas stove to use outside this time - especially for bacon and fish!!!

Hope you manage to get your booze in!!

See you on the 27th.


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## merfy

The Repsol Garage in Malaga is at :-
C/ Concepción Arenal, 
29004 - Málaga

GPS:-
36º 41' 25.04'' N 
4º 28' 58.76'' W

regards,
Keith


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## billmac

Kieth,
You could always drain the fresh water tank and fill with el vino, and rely on 'readily available' bottled water !!

See you on the 27th.

Bill


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## tony5677

Hope you all have a good journey, we are leaving on 20th, 
see you on 27th.

pat and Tony


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## merfy

Bill,
With that answer/idea you are now my new best friend!


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## oldtart

Many thanks for the info, Keith.

Bill - we did meet someone whose father-in - law did that!!

See you on the 27th

Val


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## wattapain

Hi all, we're currently in a nice site in Pont-de-Salars, near Rodez, ACSI no 1376. Lovely and quiet, if a little basic, but with lovely views of the lake.
Ther is an aire in the village though, but feeling a bit 'off' Aires at the mo.
AS I said before, we've never stayed on them before, but following lots of reviews on here & elsewhere, thought we'd give 'em a go! 
The first one was in Oissel, p 276 in 'All the Aires'.
Acc to book, there are spaces for 5 m/h's, but 3 have been changed to car spaces, with concrete blocks in the middle!!! :x 
When we arrived, they were (of course) both taken.
One of them very kindly invited us to share his space, which we did.
It was a bit 'cosy' but OK for an overnighter :lol: .
The other couple, French, said they'd been there last year, and there was lots of space!!
Lovely spot though on the banks of the Seine - nice little town.

Next night we tried another Aire - St Porcain-sur-Sioule - P 177 in th e All the aires book.
Good write up in the book -50 places, EHU, showers, loos!
Well, when we arrived ( around 5.30 pm), it was almost full, all the hook ups were taken, the loos/showers were broken - non functioning. Our LPG was running low ( the pump @ garage we'd just tried to fill up with was not working :x ).
And it was cold, windy And raining :roll: so we moved to a nearby ACSI site - no 1202 - chatel de nuevre.
Nice friendly little site - again basic, but much better - ehu, hot water etc!!
Didn't even consider Aires this time - have spent a nice relaxing 2 nights here -walked into the village today - a bit warmer - actually saw some sun :roll: :lol: .
tomorrow - going to Carcassonne - ACSI ( naturellement!!) no 1421 - looks good, near to the city. 
Please tell me we've just been unlucky re the Aires - feeling really 'put off' at present.
Weather not great either - driving down the A75 , there was lots of snow on the side of the road !!
Hopefully that will improve, although the forecas tdoesn't look good.
The campsite manager told us that the weather conditions are the worst for 25 years for this time of the year 8O :roll:  
Watch this space!!
Terri


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## hmh

*Morocco - Aires in France*

Yes, don't be put off. Aires in France are usually reliable, mostly free, well worth trying again!

If you had the Aire info from a book or tourist website, write to them and let them know - they can handle a complaint in English - keeps them on their toes!

The weather is unusually cold, even though you have hit the Saints de glace, or icy Saints' days - the dates vary, but the phenomenon of a cold snap in May is well documented - see Wikipedia - in Germany and Eastern Europe too.

April was amazingly hot - as it was in London, but even more so here.

Morocco shouldn't be cold, at least!

Regards,

Helen


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## oldtart

Don't be put off Terri. We've used quite a few and not had any problems. I agree with Helen - do report your experiences.

Thanks for the info on the weather! We are going on the Canal du Midi with friends, for a week, from Homps which is east of Carcassone.We leave England on Sunday and go to the Canal on the 15th. I shall have to put some warm clothing in! 

See you on the 27th.

Val


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## wattapain

Hi all - now in Carcassonne - weather brilliant wheb we arrived - sat out in sun for a while .... but today, awoke to pouring rain :roll: . 
walked to the 'cite' - nice place though very 'touristy' - only to be expected though.
Was originally gonna stay for 3-4 nights, but will maybe move on tomorrow - try to find some sun.
although the forecast remains pretty cr*p throughout France and Spain - Grrrr.
Not having much luck - know good weather's not everything, but really didn't expect to be wearing jumpers & socks this far south!!
Even Southern Spain looks pretty awful - hopefully will improve by the time we get there!!
See you soon,
Terri


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## Detourer

Just spoke to Ray who is coincidently [well not really as he is with a group] at this moment in time at Source bleue du Meski, the location of the forthcoming Wedding.

Notwithstanding the weather, which is staying around 30deg at the moment, he reports that the celebration plans are proceeding well, at a Moroccan style pace!

The nearby cattle market today produced a suitable cow, to join the other that is already been fattened for the big day [days]. Attending the turning from happy munching to Kebabs and Kefta is an option!

Ordered are the other mind boggling necessities, 350 live chickens, 10 crates each of oranges, apples etc etc 10 x 40 kilos sacks of flower for the hundreds of loaves, 100 litres of olive oil, even 10 new stools for the village women helpers/cooks to sit on while working hard had to be purchased, and the list goes on and on.

Anyway, our own plans are sorted [well nearly] and Ray, the team and myself look forward to meeting the MHFacts tourers on the 27th ...........


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## wattapain

Hi everyone, haven´t been able to post for a while as laptop not well!!
Keeps telling me ´no network cards availablé´!1
So am using internet cafes at present - hoopefully one of you guys will be able to help me when we meet!! :roll: We´re now in a site on the Ebro delta - near Amposta - ACSI but cant remember the no as I´m not in the ´van  
Weather has been absolutely appalling - everyone is moaning - French, German, Spanish !!
But think it looks like it´s about to improve :wink: 
Pleease!
This site is great - very clean, lovely setting - flamingoes nesting a short  bike ride away!!
Gonna move south prob on Monday & post whenever I can!!
See you soon - not long now!!   
Terri


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## wattapain

Well, we're finally back - actually arrived last Friday 9th, but have not actuallly got round to this until now. :? 
Well actually have been trying to pluck up the courage to post this!!
Anyway, here goes - basically it was a bit if a disappointment - to put it mildly.  
The wedding bit was a bit of a disaster, due to many factors actually, but I was really disappointed, and feel 'cheated' that we didn't really get to feel part of it, and in fact missed most of it!  
And I personally also felt we were not really wanted there.
I have seen some of the pics on facebook, but do not actually have any of my own except for the 'wedding gift procession'.  :x 
And we were one of those who left early. as we were getting fed up with all the hassle. :!: 

I'm sure there will be other replies saying how wonderful it all was, but we were really not comfortable either with Morocco (or at least with the awful, unsanitary campsites!), and the level of support/leadership.
Anyway, I will leave it at that at least for the moment until I can gauge the response from others.
A lovely trip overall though, at least the Spanish bit of it - great, clean campsites, good facilities.
And just in case anyone wondered, we do not go for the 'all singing all dancing 'Brit Costa' type site, just nice quiet, local ones.
Just clean, respectful, where you can feel comfortable and not be harrassed - go for a nice dinner in a nice local Spanish restaurant (with a decent bottle of wine), and without someone hassling you to buy something you don't need.
Sorry, all you Morocco fans, but think we'll stick to Europe in future (at least in the 'van)
Maybe coastal Morocco (flight/ hotel etc) at some point.
Awaiting replies - and no doubt, people telling us how wromg I am!!


Terri


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## merfy

*The Morocco Wedding Tour*

I fully understand where Terri is coming from and having been on the Tour appreciate her opinion.
Whilst she is accurate in her assessment, there are clearly some extenuating circumstances to some of these issues.
Clearly Morocco is a country undergoing development and is a fair way off the UK Caravan Club site standards; however as with many UK CL sites I use the facilities I paid to have in my van.
The wedding was not as any of us expected, and I assume, not as the Tour Leaders expected, however the reports are that we ourselves caused most of the problems - I cannot prove or dispel this but Ray will have a view.
Did we get the level of support expected or published in the numerous Newsletters circulated - NO.
The level of support vehicles and their content was not as advertised and whilst not me, the couples who did suffer mechanical problems were largely left to fend for themselves. This is an issue for them to raise - they know who they are.
We enjoyed the company of 90% of the fellow travellers we met, disappointedly 2 couples excluded themselves from the group, finding their own private company preferable to the mix.
What were the good points? - a conducted trip that we were all too scared to undertake on our own; visiting the interior of the country where we will never venture on our own (and ought not to alone); having an experienced tour-guide with knowledge of the culture, country and people. Giving us the confidence and knowledge to undertake, if we wanted to, return on our own.
In summary, for the price the experience was good value.
Where do I look on Facebook?
Let's here from the other 16 fellow travellers


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## Detourer

Hi Merfy

Yes.......Morocco is clearly for some and not for others, however or whoever you go with. It is an emerging Third World Country.....It is also Africa, Arabic and Islamic. Points some fail to grasp. But for the majority it is a fantastic and friendly country and well worth a visit.....With an open mind and attitude.

The wedding, that was only the last few days of the tour, did not go as we had expected [we don't "name and shame".......yet!], but as you indicated largely self inflicted is perhaps the best way to describe. More to the point.......Demon Drink [and one case of attempted drug purchase] and the associated appalling behaviour......... with 100's of tours behind us this was the first time that a campsite owner "Barred" the return of an individual. Best perhaps left at that!

We don't "advertise" what vehicles we use on tours, we have a choice of 6 and use most suitable given style and route of tour [no desert on this tour, so no need for heavy 4x4 truck], Just one, of the two "support vehicles", logged more than 25 client trips during the tour. But whatever vehicles we use they carry a vast amount of tools and equipment. I seem to remember the clutch sourced from Germany on day one of the tour and later changed change, two punctures repaired and one new tire sourced, collected and fitted. Full set of brake-pads located and fitted [by workshop] etc.

Anyway...... client feedback to ourselves, whilst apologetic, has been positive with our normal level of re-bookings...........

I have hundreds of pics of the wedding......but no idea how to post.......this link, to just a few, may work.

http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/detourer/?action=view&current=Xmasdinnernearly.jpg

...


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## hmh

*Morocco, The Wedding Tour*

We really enjoyed Morocco, (we went on our own 2 years ago) and were interested to experience the somewhat here-and-there standards of facilities on campsites.
After all, you are in a campervan, can use your own sanitaires, buy bottled water to drink, buy your own raw ingredients and wash and cook them. We had no trouble at all with food poisoning, but hardly ate out at all.
30 years ago, French and Spanish campsites often left much to be desired, in that respect. I liked France better then, we live in a small French town and the council have just ripped out the High Street and made it one-way and modern . . .!

I could go on at length about globalisation - there are those that hold the view that 3rd world countries are deliberately kept poor, so we can have our raw materials grown cheaply.

Giving to the poor is a fundamental duty of Moslems, so by begging they are enabling you to fulfil this duty! There is no free Health Service, pension, or dole . . .

That said, there was very little begging in Tunisia, which is less tourist-orientated and rather more well-to-do. Also much less in Morocco, if you were not on a road frequented by tourists . . .

Can't comment on the Guided Tour, but we have run guided tours ourselves in France, and it is very difficult to get the balance right, you can bet Ray is not making his fortune, just earning a living, if he is lucky! If a lot of his clients are happy, he is doing pretty well, I would say!

Helen


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## wattapain

Hi Keith, nice to be in touch again - are you back in Blighty yet?
I know you were doing a couple of get togethers on the return journey - hope you & Felicity are well.
To get back to my previous post however - Ray, I must disagree re the 'advertising' of support vehicles!!
When I originally booked this trip, I knew Brian would be very apprehensive (he's like that - cautious  ), so one of the major selling points was 'The Beast' with 'every tool known to man!!!'
Well, we had 2 vehicles, both not full of tools but camping gear and passengers!! 

And when we needed to do, admittedly a minor repair job, Ray or Steve did not even have a drill :roll: - we did in fact get one but from a fellow group member so a self help situation.
that says it all I'm afraid, and set the tone as far as I can see for the whole trip.

There were a few people on the trip who had done it before, and they told us many times that the level of support and involvement from Ray and staff was normally so much more in their other tours.

Also I felt there were too many 'vans - I mean 18 vehicles rolling through tiny little village dirt roads - the locals were amazed - I felt like the cavalry were coming!!

There are lots of issues here, but the main one for me was the wedding - again the main reason for booking for most of us I guess.
I felt totally excluded, and while Ray's explanation goes some way, I still feel that someone could have done something to prevent the rest of us sitting about till 3am - about 4 hours :evil: with absolutely nothing happening.
And yes, we were told that things would happen 'late' - but that was just ridiculous.
anyway, it's all over now - and I know we were not the only ones to have felt this way, but there you go.
And I also know that I will never - EVER - go on a group M/H tour again.
An unsociable b****r really!! :lol:  
Terri


----------



## impala666

*Go it Alone*

Having not long ago returned from a CCC trip to Morocco led by DD I can empathise with the problems Merfy and Terri reported with the organisation and support.

About half of our CCC party have lodged complaints and one van left the tour at the start and another half way through .

If any members are thinking of going to Morocco, it would be easy and cheaper to organise your own trip. However you should be seasoned travellers in Europe, preferably go in a group of 3 vans. Be equipped with a good tool kit, Speak some French. Ensure your van is self sufficient for electricity, fully serviced , with good tyres, preferablywith Tyron bands, or puncture proof gunge. The facilities on many sites are well below European standards. Wild camping is often the better option.

Last year over 150,000 vans went to Morocco and most of them travelled independently.

There are plenty of reports, guide books, maps and some Sat Navs work ( N Drive ). Morocco is a wonderful country, and we found the driving and safety issues of little problem, although the state of the roads in places was bad with road works and pot holes.

Good research and planning is essential, and on your way you should meet many other solo travellers.

Brian


----------



## Detourer

As is often the case it is rare that the full and correct info is posted ............

As Impala666 [Brian] will know ,or chooses not to, is that..........
" one van left the tour at the start" .......... Due to driving into a flood and totally wrecking- swamping engine BEFORE crossing to Morocco and leaving caravan parked where it was also was swamped by flood water.

"another half way through" ............Due to the worst weather in Morocco [and rest of Europe]for over 50 years one CCC client left group and headed for clearer and better weather south........

An example of the "Complaints" that CCC received [they ask for comments ofet all tours] were.......

"I was sitting at the back of the group and didn't get wine" [self service!].

"No vehicles supplied to restaurant" [in walking precinct!].....

"Didn't get to see music-drums" [didn't attend!].....

Information is good in some cases but Impala666 would also know that there were 6 punctures on that tour, TWO of which also totally wrecked the wheels ... one damaged side of caravan as the shredded tyre stayed attached to the wheel [pre tour in Spain, not Morocco]. Tyre fitters said these were due to shredded tyres staying on wheel. Few tyre repair shops in Morocco can get the tyres off the wheels when fitted with the various [clamping] systems.

Two wheels and 3 caravan/motorhome tyres where sourced by DD during the tour.

..


----------



## impala666

*E & O E.*

RMS of Desert Detours wrote 
<As is often the case it is rare that the full and correct info is posted ............

As Impala666 [Brian] will know ,or chooses not to, is that..........
" one van left the tour at the start" .......... Due to driving into a flood and totally wrecking- swamping engine BEFORE crossing to Morocco and leaving caravan parked where it was also was swamped by flood water.

"another half way through" ............Due to the worst weather in Morocco [and rest of Europe]for over 50 years one CCC client left group and headed for clearer and better weather south........ >
============================================
Yes I agree... As is often the case it is rare that the full and correct info is posted .
In Fact.....Three vans left the tour.
One at Monte Parc....even befoe the start of the tour..They were not happy with the weather or organisation.
One at Casa Bernados ....unfortunately they broke down in water 12 inches deep...that was their fault. Their car engine was flodded and never fully repaired.
Another van left half way through the tour due to bad weather and the unfortunate attmosphere prevailing.

Due to the several complaints received by many on the CCC tour led by DD some of us are being offered a 10 % reduction on future tours.
The bad weather was not the factor as being "British, Scottish, or Welsh" we all kept a stiff upper lip and coped with the inclement conditions.

Brian


----------



## Detourer

"Yes I agree... As is often the case it is rare that the full and correct info is posted. In Fact.....Three vans left the tour. One at Monte Parc....even befoe the start of the tour..They were not happy with the weather or organisation".

_No, the CCC client in fact hurt her back [it was also an ongoing condition] and was in great pain so decided that they would not risk continuing. Like you say BEFORE the tour and with respect nothing to do with the "Organisation"......except for the doctor visit sorted by DD staff_

"One at Casa Bernados ....unfortunately they broke down in water 12 inches deep...that was their fault. Their car engine was flooded and never fully repaired".

_No, they drove into water that was waist high and all but destroyed their engine. The DD mechanic spent over 5 hours, in the rain, trying to repair the vehicle before the client himself called a halt. In fact it took some weeks for their recovery-insurance to sort it out, with most of the phoneing and arranging done via the DD office .... although no longer "thier problem"._

Another van left half way through the tour due to bad weather and the unfortunate attmosphere prevailing.

_Yes, as mentioned.....They decided to seek better weather further south but were unhappy at the attitude of some clients, and even though they had left the CCC tour they were continuously contacted and had ongoing campsites paid._

Due to the several complaints received by many on the CCC tour led by DD some of us are being offered a 10 % reduction on future tours.

_And others have re-booked onto later tours with DD both in Morocco and Andalusia._

The bad weather was not the factor as being "British, Scottish, or Welsh" we all kept a stiff upper lip and coped with the inclement conditions.

_Contradictions there! The weather for the first 5 days was diabolical [same weather that at the time cost 50+ lives in France etc etc...]. DD coped with road closures, a bridge collapse and were forced into a 300km diversion. Access to one campsite was via a divesion due to a landslide that cost 10 local lives.

Never let facts get in the way of a good..................whatever!_


----------



## loddy

You can't please everyone all of the time Ray, I enjoyed my visit to Maroc and thought Desert Detours did what they say they were going to do, on our tour someone complained about the condition of the roads of course it was DDs fault :? 

Loddy


----------



## whistlinggypsy

We met up with DD in camping International Fez in Mar.2010 with one of his tours (we where independent travellers) but have been on a DD tour before, we where astounded by the level of anger and frustration being displayed by some of the group toward DD tours because of the weather conditions and the road closures, even lack of sunshine, you must try harder Ray:wink: 

Well we as independents did not have the updated info DD could obtain and spent hours and many hundreds of miles finding routes open and places to stay so I could imagine the extra work this caused Ray &Co. and I know from previous experience he will have done everything in his power to make it as easy as he possible could for the group he was with at the time.

Its so difficult to please everyone all the time and the very nature of some people find it difficult to understand that Morocco is an emerging and developing tourism country so some give and take is expected from everyone. 

Travellers have been going there for hundreds/thousands of years and accepted the country for what it is, what it isn't is a CCC/CC ect. land of lovely sites with great pitches, euro style loo's and 16 EHU for a few dirham a night, but one of fascinating and friendly people, fabulous scenery, superb food and usually great weather. 

Bob


----------



## Rankins

*Re: Go it Alone*



impala666 said:


> Having not long ago returned from a CCC trip to Morocco led by DD I can empathise with the problems Merfy and Terri reported with the organisation and support.
> 
> About half of our CCC party have lodged complaints


Hopefully the complaints will have been lodged direct with C&CC and will be listened to.

We have also been to Morocco with DD and found them severely lacking but with them being based in Spain there is no recourse.


----------



## Detourer

Hi Elspeth [Rankins]

It was a CCC tour [ex-employer of you I think] and of course they have the info......they asked in the form of a questionnaire........

What trip would that have been Elsbeth? The FIRST or the SECOND one you did with Desert Detours? I seem to remember that it was on the second trip that we received and had to deal with the serious complaints from the campsite owner and other campers following the very "Merry" Burns Night celebrations you were having.
No problem with recourse for companies based in Spain, but noted that you failed to turn up at the court hearing, in Spain, that Desert Detours instigated regarding yourself!

Never let the facts etc etc.....................

Hi Whistling......." We met up with DD in camping International Fez in Mar.2010 with one of his tours (we where independent travellers) but have been on a DD tour before, we where astounded by the level of anger and frustration being displayed by some of the group toward DD tours because of the weather conditions and the road closures, even lack of sunshine, you must try harder Ray: wink:.........."

_Yes, I remember meeting you there. That was in fact the CCC tour.

Thanks and take care................_

..


----------



## asprn

Ray,

You won't win, no matter how blunt or reasonable you answer. I shouldn't bother if I were you.

The recent posts I've read from people who were on the tour and who are unhappy with it, have not posted anything constructive. All I'm reading is non-constructive criticism apparently designed to put people off. That bores me to death, as it means they're not interested in constructive solutions, even if what they say is 100% correct.

I'll be there on 7th/8th Feb, and am looking forward to it. If I have a problem on the tour, I'll tell you, and if it continues, I'll tell you again. You can be sure that you'll understand the issue, but will also understand I'll be talking *to* you, not *at* you.

Anyway, my secret weapon (Mags) will bite your kneecaps if you don't sort out the weather, the roads and the whingers (not necessarily in that order).

Dougie.


----------



## impala666

*Re: Go it Alone*



Rankins said:


> impala666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having not long ago returned from a CCC trip to Morocco led by DD I can empathise with the problems Merfy and Terri reported with the organisation and support.
> 
> About half of our CCC party have lodged complaints
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the complaints will have been lodged direct with C&CC and will be listened to.
> 
> We have also been to Morocco with DD and found them severely lacking but with them being based in Spain there is no recourse.
Click to expand...

Yes Rankins
CCC have been inundated with complaints from at least 50 % of the tour members and have offerred these due to the agravation caused (not the weather) a 10% discount on future CCC tours. 
Brian.


----------



## asprn

*Re: Go it Alone*



impala666 said:


> CCC have been inundated with complaints from at least 50 % of the tour members


So, assuming there were 15 vans on the tour, that would be at least 7½ complaints?

Dougie.


----------



## Detourer

.

You are of course quite right Dougie. You can never win......

By the way, some may remember that the Rankins initual "complaint" [posted here way back] was that they were left unattended, but with a member of our staff of 20 years service, while two other members of our staff dealt with and repatriated a client suffering from a life threatening heart attack.........Mmmm.

...


----------



## impala666

*Re: Go it Alone*

<So, assuming there were 15 vans on the tour, that would be at least 7½ complaints?.
Dougie.[/quote]

Dougie 
Am not sure why you're being so pedantic, or where you are coming from.

There were 17 vans on the tour, after 2 left at the start. Even if CCC received 7 complaints ( not concerned with the weather ) you must admit that this a serious judgement of how the tour was run. And for CCC to offer a 10% discount this must be a case of cause and effect.

CCC had placed a "Mystery Shopper" on the Tour'

Brian


----------



## Detourer

Facts, facts and even more "facts"..........

Impala666 ........ As you well know, there was in fact NO "Mystery Shopper" on the tour. They were CCC staff and introduced to yourself at the tour beginning and were of course well known to ourselves and were, as are in all future CCC tours, part of the plan. 


...


----------



## asprn

*Re: Go it Alone*



impala666 said:


> Am not sure why you're being so pedantic, or where you are coming from


Well, if being pedantic means I'm looking in some detail at what you've posted and then holding a mirror up, then I'm being pedantic. Please though don't confuse this with rudeness. You said, "_*CCC have been inundated with complaints from at least 50 % of the tour members.*_ That's like saying that you were trampled by a huge crowd in your garden shed when your two grandchildren stood on your foot. 17 vans is almost exactly what I guestimated, so to use the word "inundated" to describe a percentage of complaints (assuming your 50% figure to be correct), is - to put it politely - amusing.



impala666 said:


> you must admit that this a serious judgement of how the tour was run


I must admit nothing of the sort. There is nothing which I've read which leads me to have serious reservations about the tour I'm going on in February, for the simple reason that every single one of the posts I've read here, are overstated, some are verging on hysterical, and very few could be described as constructive and reasonable. It's reasonable therefore to assume that this is how those same people acted and reacted during the our itself when presented with things they weren't happy with, and it's easy to see why they felt their problems weren't being resolved. Quick resolutions only ever come through clarity, open-mindedness and a willingness to negotiate.



impala666 said:


> And for CCC to offer a 10% discount this must be a case of cause and effect.


Must it? Only if you've made your mind up and don't want to discuss it positively in an open and frank way with the tour organiser.

I've no reason to defend anyone here, and am not doing so because I wasn't on the tour. What's evident though is the habitual pointless complaining which happens with depressing regularity. If there are underlying deficiencies with Desert Detours, this sure as hell ain't the way to highlight them with a view to resolving them for yourself or others.

Dougie.


----------



## impala666

Detourer said:


> Facts, facts and even more "facts"..........
> 
> Impala666 ........ As you well know, there was in fact NO "Mystery Shopper" on the tour. They were CCC staff and introduced to yourself at the tour beginning and were of course well known to ourselves and were, as are in all future CCC tours, part of the plan.
> 
> ...


There are times Ray when it is better just to put your hands up and say I am sorry.

I quote verbatim from a letter received from the CCC dated June 3rd concerning the CCC Tour of Morocco which you led.

" Tour members are probably not aware that the Club had a " Mystery Consumer" on the tour, who has given us a full and frank report of the tour, with reports on what was provides as extras, and areas in need of improvement."

Last week you were at a meeting at CCC and many of these reports would have been discussed with you . Why do you think CCC have offered us and others a 10 % rebate . Please do not cite the bad weather.

Brian


----------



## asprn

impala666 said:


> I quote verbatim from a letter received from the CCC dated June 3rd concerning the CCC Tour of Morocco which you led....


Brian,

This is apparently-factual input. In the interests of balance and open discussion, and unless the letter is confidential to yourself and tour members, can you reproduce the entire letter here? It will bring some useful perspective to the discussion.

Dougie.


----------



## Detourer

Anyway......the point of the topic was.......

This photo link arrived via PM just a moment ago.....with comments withheld on request as they don't want "Hate-Mail".......Wedding Tour!

http://picasaweb.google.com/driverbillmac

..


----------



## TinaGlenn

We went on the Adventure trip before the Wedding tour with DD, and just as a point of interest one of the members of our group got a puncture, Despite having had brand new tyres and the "Gunk" in prep for the trip, he is now in talks with the company who did the "gunk" at one of the motorhome shows.

Once the problem was brought to Ray's attention though, the wheel was taken to a local garage (By taxi) it was repared and returned by the garage owner late the same night, he had carried it back to the camp site on the handlebars of his moped!! :lol: The van owners had been given the option of taking the van with their spare wheel fitted to the garage, but they decided to stay at the campsite with the group. 

With the complexities of todays mainly computer driven vans, and the huge range of base vehicles on any one tour, no one garage can stock all the possible parts which might be needed for a group of vans at any one time, let alone in a couple of vehicles which are also loaded with first aid equipment, food, clothes and camping equipment for the support staff. 

Some people do expect a lot from Ray and his staff though, on our first trip one couple had no heating or hot water, ..... and hadn't for months before they started the DD trip, another couple forgot to fill their gaslow tanks or carry any other gas and were relying on an electric ring to cook on, another couple had been having continuous problems with a tyre valve, and another couple had been having problems with a water tank..... Not huge problems if in Europe staying for any length of time on fully loaded campsites with showers and EHU, BUT on a driving tour of over 1500 miles where you have been informed there will be wilderness camping and camp sites which can be very basic, these become huge problems. 

We met up with most of the people on the wedding trip at Malaga Monte Parc, as we were staying for the Ferria in the nearby town. They people we got to know were a fun loving bunch and it looked like you were going to have a great trip.

We did feel sorry for the ladies with the clutch problems which they admitted had started before they left home.......We laughed at and with the chap who wasn't letting his lady friend use the facilities in his van at the camp site so that he didn't have to clean or empty them, and we talked with, and answered questions honestly about the trip we had just finished. Yes it was a large group compared to our 8 van group, but even then we had a couple who tried to make things difficult for everyone else with their rudeness and selfishness. If people want to do the trip and not join in then it is up to them, we all have our own ideas of what we want out of anything.

Our trip was amazing, the scenery and routes breathtaking, the places we visited were off the usual tourist routes in the main part, the roads were good in some places and terrible in others, but they are in the UK after last winter too. The behaviour of the kids in some places was very invasive but we drove away if it got too bad. Travelling through little towns and villages too small to be on our maps, the people were as curious about us as we were about them, we found them open and friendly and very patient and helpfull as we shopped for food and souvenirs and to look around. We never worried about parking the vans while we explored and got our supplies. Once, after taking a wrong turn in a little town due to roadworks and a signed detour, our group bought the whole place to a standstill, traffic was stopped and various people waved and guided us, as we reversed down a narrow track back to the main road, much to the amusement of an old man on a donkey who was laughing his head off at us and our friends, there were no angry faces or honking horns, people were waving and laughing and helpfull to the poor fools driving the big vans backwards through their little town :lol: 

This was our 2nd trip, I have been asked if knowing what I do now, if I had the chance to do them again would I? I have no hesitation is saying Yes I would. 

Thanks to the cycling couple who were camped next to us at MMP, we went to Ourador Sur Glane and it was amazing, thanks for the info ( sorry I am hopeless with names)


----------



## asprn

Detourer said:


> http://picasaweb.google.com/driverbillmac


Amazing pics, Ray. Can't wait (and I know you'll guarantee the weather to be exactly the same as it was on the pics...or my money back). :twisted: :lol:

Tina, great account. It seems to me that what you get out of the tour (like most things in life) is what you put in, and also whether your glass is half-full or half-empty.

Dougie.


----------



## wattapain

Hi Ray, thanks for posting Bill's great pics, and also for bringing my thread back to its original subject.  
And hi to Tina, who we met @ MMp at the end of their trip and beginning of ours.  
I would like to say to Ray that I really enjoyed the trip - surely an experience like no other. 
We went to places we didn't even know existed, and would not (shouldn't maybe) have gone to without the group.
So all in all a great adventure - not without 'issues', but not all of them down to Ray or his organisation.
But something I would like to say Ray, is that you know more than most that when organising & running trps like this, there is inevitably going to be someone not happy about something.
And I feel you are very defensive when people have 'queries'.
I had some, but I was not critisising you - but your response indicated you took it as if I was.

Anyway, I have had a bellyful of all this now, but I would like to thank you for a super adventure - and am now busy planning my next trip (not an adventure this time though - getting too old!!)
:lol: 

Terri


----------



## Rankins

Detourer said:


> of course they have the info......they asked in the form of a questionnaire........
> 
> the serious complaints from the campsite owner and other campers following the very "Merry" Burns Night celebrations you were having.
> No problem with recourse for companies based in Spain, but noted that you failed to turn up at the court hearing, in Spain, that Desert Detours instigated regarding yourself!


You've missed the point. The travellers will be able to put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard and contact C&CC independent of the questionnaire.

Compliant! Court Hearing! Wow, this is the first I've heard. Ray, you really should not be so shy and speak up even if it is all fantasy.


----------



## wattapain

Please, can all these posteres who are having an ongoing battle with Ray , please start their own thread and stop this hi-jack of mine?? :x 
This, in case you are not aware, was about the 'Wedding tour',
and it appears to have been taken over. :evil: 
Terri


----------



## hblewett

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



merfy said:


> ... ... a conducted trip that we were all too scared to undertake on our own; visiting the interior of the country where we will never venture on our own (and ought not to alone); having an experienced tour-guide with knowledge of the culture, country and people. Giving us the confidence and knowledge to undertake, if we wanted to, return on our own.
> In summary, for the price the experience was good value.


As one of those on the wedding tour I agree with most , but not all of Merfy's comments. I think he is one of very few who have attempted to make any sort of balanced comment, and his comment which I have included is the crux of the matter for most of us.

We had two slow punctures and were accompanied by one of Ray's staff to a garage where they were fixed. Hassan did all the dealing with the garage staff to explain the problems and stayed with us till the job was finished. The garage was obviously well recommended, as the tyres are still running with no problems.

It seems to me that perhaps those on the C&CC tour were some of the more timid members of the motorhome fraternity? Used to full facility sites in UK and having ventured, maybe alone, maybe on a C&CC guided tour , as far as France, Netherlands or, even Germany(!), they go off to Morocco expecting that it will be more or less the same as far as camping, roads, predictability of travel etc. This, despite DD's clear information on how it's not like that in Morocco because its an emerging 3rd world country. No wonder these folk get upset when they find its not Europe and it rains and washes the roads away!

I have seen on another thread adverse comments about value for money of DD tours. For the same price as the wedding tour we could have done the C&CC trip to Holland; - one week - ferry to Rotterdam - 30 mile drive to campsite - lots of meals organised - all subsequent trips by coach - back to UK the same way. Described by C&CC as an adventure! Not for us, but maybe for some! Perhaps Morocco is a step too far for some of the cosy campers who are addicted to C&CC?

As far as we were concerned we had a fantastic trip, seeing things and going to places which we would never have done otherwise. It wasn't perfect, but as far as we were concerned some of the members of our trip were a pain in the ****. If we found that, no doubt DD did too and they had to cope with them i.e DRINK and DRUGS! - we had some right whingers on our trip too.

We have never travelled with a group before, and are not likely to again due to some of the other DD clients on the tour. We will continue to travel on our own - using Aires, wildcamping and occasionally simple campsites. Those who want Home Counties comforts should perhaps stick to what they know, like and are comfortable with.

And maybe they should get a life and move on!!??


----------



## impala666

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



hblewett said:


> hblewett wrote
> <It seems to me that perhaps those on the C&CC tour were some of the more timid members of the motorhome fraternity? Used to full facility sites in UK and having ventured, maybe alone, maybe on a C&CC guided tour , as far as France, Netherlands or, even Germany(!), they go off to Morocco expecting that it will be more or less the same as far as camping, roads, predictability of travel etc. This, despite DD's clear information on how it's not like that in Morocco because its an emerging 3rd world country. No wonder these folk get upset when they find its not Europe and it rains and washes the roads away!
> 
> And maybe they should get a life and move on!!??


>>

hblewett
You are completly wrong. Most if not all of us on the CCC tour were very experienced campers, and used to travelling in Africa and Eastern Europe.
Most of us were completly self sufficient, and used to wild camping.
We paid "top dollar price for a bottom dime tour" . It was not the rain we were complaining of, rather the facilities and events advertised and not provided, or replies to our questions like "What is a Berber breakfast ? & the answer "Nothing"

Most of us have moved on and found a happier detour.

Brian


----------



## hblewett

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



impala666 said:


> and used to travelling in Africa and Eastern Europe.Brian


In your motorhome? Or on a package tour?


----------



## impala666

*The World is our Campsite*



hblewett said:


> impala666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> and used to travelling in Africa and Eastern Europe.Brian
> 
> 
> 
> In your motorhome? Or on a package tour?
Click to expand...

Both


----------



## hblewett

Fair enough


----------



## asprn

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*

With apologies to the OP for keeping it slightly off-topic - there have now been a couple of balanced and well-put posts by people who were there. They confirm what I've surmised from the other posts - particularly impala666's - which are overstated and apparently made not in any sense with an open mind.

Apart from the CC&C apparently being "inundated" with complaints (from a very few people), the overstatements continue:



impala666 said:


> Most if not all of us on the CCC tour were very experienced campers, and used to travelling in Africa and Eastern Europe


So you're asserting that most (say, 14) or all (say, 17) members are "*very experienced campers .... in Africa and Eastern Europe*". Sorry, but unless the group were an Africa-and Eastern-Europe-specialist group, a general poll here would show very quickly that actually relatively very few people have "travelled extensively" (or at all) in either part of the world. So I find that virtually impossible to believe (and I may start a MHF poll to see if I'm correct or not).



impala666 said:


> Most of us were completly self sufficient, and used to wild camping


Really? Again, "most" MH owners are not "completely self-sufficient", or "used to wild camping". Those that are, are more likely to be the more robust sort, and used to dealing with unforeseen situations as they come along. Self-sufficiency isn't being able to nervously survive without a 16A EHU for two or three days. It's being able to assess and deal with situations as they present themselves, and turn problems into solutions proactively - either with or without help. Some posters here have demonstrated that in their accounts. Others have gathered the disillusioned (and perhaps timid) members around them and complained long and hard, without solutions.



impala666 said:


> We paid "top dollar price for a bottom dime tour"


That's of course an opinion you are entitled to take, and you have the ultimate consumer weapon of choice - your feet.



impala666 said:


> Most of us have moved on and found a happier detour


Most - all - completely - - very experienced - inundated.

Sorry old chap - I was genuinely interested to hear about the ups and down of this trip in view of my going on one early next year, but your continual and unsubstantiated use of superlatives to support your own position (which you say is also on behalf of most-if-not-all the other members of the tour), makes it not worth a great deal in terms of evidence of a poorly-organised tour which didn't do what it said on the tin. I quite accept that Ray won't be to everyone's tastes, but he's not running a guided tour of Kew Gardens, for God's sake. He can be a right grumpy old git, but he tells it like it is. I've tried to understand what's required in terms of character to run a Moroccan off-piste tour with a bunch of (usually-ageing and sometimes-naive) Brits who mostly would baulk at having a pee if even a camel was looking.  It clearly needs someone who can be assertive, display leadership, and be decisive - I would probably feel unsafe if he wasn't.

The balanced and reasonable posts supplied by other tour members are in my view worth a great deal evidentially, as they're in some ways critical but are not overstated, and also refer to the attitude of others on the tour which - almost inevitably - will ensure the problems are concentrated on, rather than the solutions.

I - am - outta here. 

Dougie.


----------



## JockandRita

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



asprn said:


> I - am - outta here.


You are always doing that Dougie, as if to say, "it's all a load of old bo##ocks", so I am offski. :wink:

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## asprn

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



JockandRita said:


> You are always doing that Dougie, as if to say, "it's all a load of old bo##ocks", so I am offski. :wink:


I'm shocked, Jock.  I stopped using it about 2 years ago when some people objected.

Until now. 

Dougie.


----------



## JockandRita

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



asprn said:


> I'm shocked, Jock.  I stopped using it about 2 years ago when some people objected.
> 
> Until now.
> 
> Dougie.


Ah well Dougie, due to all the argy bargy, I've never much been one for the "member's bar"........sorry........"subscriber's bar", so I am a wee bit out of date. :lol:

Nice to see you back to your old self though, eh? :lol:

Cheers,

Jock.


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## asprn

*Re: The Morocco Wedding Tour*



JockandRita said:


> Nice to see you back to your old self though, eh? :lol:


Just about - or maybe my new self. :twisted:

Dougie.


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## grizzlyj

"As if to say"?!?!?!?!?!

He'd be quite right too :roll: 

I have been wondering what some of the posts here have been trying to achieve exactly.

I think it was fairly clear a while ago that there are a variety of opinions, some good, some bad. Where this continued finger pointing gets anyone I don't know. 

The photos are lovely though


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## impala666

*Fact Fiction or Fantasy*

Desert Detours wrote.....

<Another van left half way through the tour due to bad weather and the unfortunate attmosphere prevailing.

_Yes, as mentioned.....They decided to seek better weather further south but were unhappy at the attitude of some clients, and even though they had left the CCC tour they were continuously contacted and had ongoing campsites paid._

Never let facts get in the way of a good..................whatever![/i][/quote] >

RMS....is your response Fact Fiction or Fantasy ?


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## asprn

*Re: Fact Fiction or Fantasy*



impala666 said:


> RMS....is your response Fact Fiction or Fantasy?


You've said all you need to say about this. All this is now is a slagging competition, but no-one else is playing. I think everyone will be able to draw their own conclusions on this, whatever they may be.

Dougie.


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## nukeadmin

> Please, can all these posteres who are having an ongoing battle with Ray , please start their own thread and stop this hi-jack of mine?? Mad
> This, in case you are not aware, was about the 'Wedding tour',
> and it appears to have been taken over. Evil or Very Mad
> Terri


As this thread was made about the MHF Moroccan tour and the main feedback on it have been aired or are about the CCC Then I suggest those members either take it up with CCC or DD direct rather than have long running battles on MHF about it.

Thread closed !


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