# Aire style parking in the UK



## OldWomble

We joined the MCC 2 or 3 years ago to support them in their efforts to get Aire type parking in the UK. They now seem to have given up without much of a fight so I guess they must have been bought off by the powers that be so, anyone got any thoughts as to how we, as a group, could take on all the Local Authorities? I know it wont be easy as the CC is totally against so we would have to fight them as well but hey, this is something we all want isn't it? Can we get a thread going with sensible ideas as to what we could do as a group. What are all your thoughts on this?


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## bobandjane

Blimey Old Wobble, you have one at Canterbury, how many more do you want, it gets my vote for what its worth. Bob. :lol:


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## camper69

While the idea of having aires in this country is a laudable one why do we have to be the same as other countries. Surely the idea of going to the continent is to go and stay in different surroundings.

They would to a certain extent be in direct competion to Cl's and CS's which would then struggle.

Derek


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## chapter

i think you need to leave the local authorities out and start with the parish councils and show them they can make some cash for the small town and village and let them work on the local authorities 
at this time the village pub/shop/hall needs every £ they can 
chapter


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## Patrick_Phillips

I think we need to bear in mind land availability.
We have roughly the same number of people living on about 38% of the land that the French have.  
Patrick


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## andyangyh

In one of my other personas I wrote a 4 page lead article for Motorcaravan magazine a few years back when they were running their campaign to get aires in this country. I interviewed councillors etc in this country and Mayors and tourist officials in France. One thing that became very clear very quickly is that the two groups are completely different. Everything in this country comes down to minimising risk - everyone was terrified of being sued. I got endless e.mails from "Risk Assessment Managers" from local authorities. A few quotes:-

"What would happen if someone injured themselves while staying on our aire?"

"We'd be over-run with travellers and gypsies"

"Why should we give these freeloaders (yes, they meant YOU!) somewhere to stay?"

Needless to say all these remarks came from officials in the UK. The Caravan Club has made its views very clear ("dangerous!") and the C&CC can't see the point. After all, why would they want to see a free facility anywhere near one of their sites? 

The situation in each country is also very different. As someone has already pointed out the French have a lot less density of population. They also give more power to local mayors etc. The aires system is mainly a result of the historical situation where France set up a chain of Municipal campsites after the 1st World War to give the population access to cheap holidays. The fact that the French caravan season is very short and the growth in popularity of motorhomes, which now far outnumber caravans in France, and which are used for a much longer season than tents and caravans means that the pattern of demand has changed. The Municipal sites aren't worth keeping open for 9 months but the villages and towns don't want to miss out on potential business coming into the shops, restaurants etc so the answer is to provide aires to bring affluent older people in. They don't do it because they love motorhomes - they do it because it makes sound financial sense. Even on 8 year old figures the average French motorhome brought in 25 Euros per night to towns and villages with an aire. The UK has more all year sites and many more sites open for 8-9 months. The need isn't there for British towns. The figures aren't half as impressive here and when you add in the fear of being sued etc. it's a fair bet that aires will never take off in the UK.

The English say, "Why should we?" while the French say, "Why not?" When I lived in France I had a 6-piece band. We played all sorts of little towns and usually asked the mayor if two camping-cars (the rhythm guitarist had a Burstner) could stay overnight after the gig. The answer was always, without exception, "But of course - why not?" I've done similar in this country but I have never risked asking the local mayor for permission - I just KNOW what the answer would be.

PS - You'll have noticed that the Motorcaravan Magazine campaign was quietly dropped.


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## Grizzly

andyangyh said:


> I
> The Caravan Club has made its views very clear ("dangerous!")


What evidence have you for this ? The CC make it clear that _motorway_ aires are not sensible places to overnight but the same advice prevails in any thread on MHF as well so the CC can hardly be said to hold revolutionary views on this.



OldWomble said:


> so I guess they must have been bought off by the powers that be so,


Again, have you any evidence that they have been " bought off" ? They might have listened to the argument and decided that they cannot bring any pressure to bear so have given up. What authorities are supposed to have paid up ?

I do wish people would not make sweeping statements.

I'd like aires, and would, like many, be willing to pay a reasonable sum to use them, but I can see the other side of the argument and that is the argument that will prevail with many authorities. That's not to say that it is a lost cause but it will not be helped by inaccuracies.

G


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## Guest

andyangyh said:


> The English say, "Why should we?" while the French say, "Why not?" .


Coming from the boating fraternity, I can report that most villages in France having a canal or navigable river nearby provide moorings to encourage boaters to visit their village AND SPEND MONEY. These are usually free and sometimes have EHU's and free water. They are usually very well cared for and are regarded as an asset to the village.

I think the psyche is different in France. I seem to recall that when the rail line for the channel tunnel was being built Towns in France were in competition in order to HAVE the line going through their place. e.g. Lille campaigned for the line.

I think it is called enterprise. A word perhaps that local councils in UK wouldn't recognise.

Tco


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## andyangyh

_The Caravan Club has made its views very clear ("dangerous!")

What evidence have you for this ? The CC make it clear that motorway aires are not sensible places to overnight but the same advice prevails in any thread on MHF as well so the CC can hardly be said to hold revolutionary views on this. _

I approached the CC with this at the time as did Motorcaravan magazine. There have been, over some time, quite a few letters in the CC magazine on the subject and the official response from the CC is, "We cannot recommend our members use aires for reasons of security" Not just motorway aires - all aires. If I have time I may try and find my notes for this article. I remember one report where the Chairman of the CC was speaking at a conference and seemed to have no idea what aires were and did, indeed, seem to think that a motorway parking area was what was meant by an "aire de camping-car". I had a short sequence of letters back and forth with the CC while researching the article when they repeated this "We cannot recommend... etc" line so, yes, there is plenty of evidence. I do try not to write stuff I can't back up. I hope this answers your question. Of course, the CC's view may have changed in the last 4 years but I haven't seen any evidence of that.


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## Zozzer

I really wish we could go contiental in the UK and aires, stellplatz, sostas, call them what you will. But I feel it will be a long time before it happens.
There are far too many organization's, councils and individuals who immediately think, 'what's in it for me', what angle can I use to screw money out of people to make it worth my while. And if I can't make any money out of it, then what barriers, objections can I come up with to prevent anyone else making any money. Then you have the British public in general who cannot grasp the idea that people who actually like to tour around. Anyone in a caravan or motorhome is a gypsy and must be moved on. And those who do know the difference, can't see any problems, we should just use campsites.

The real barrier to getting aires/ stellplatz that are open 365 days a year is that people with motorhomes, are tightfisted and wouldn't pay to stay on them anyway.


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## OldWomble

camper69 said:


> While the idea of having aires in this country is a laudable one why do we have to be the same as other countries. Surely the idea of going to the continent is to go and stay in different surroundings.
> 
> They would to a certain extent be in direct competion to Cl's and CS's which would then struggle.
> 
> Derek


Iamb not sure your right Derek, CI's & CS's are normally just a field, very few are hard standing so they are not suitable for us in the wetter times we normally suffer during the winter months. If they all installed hard standings then yes, we probably would not need anything else.



chapter said:


> i think you need to leave the local authorities out and start with the parish councils and show them they can make some cash for the small town and village and let them work on the local authorities
> at this time the village pub/shop/hall needs every £ they can
> chapter


I think that is the best idea I have seen and maybe we should all start a campaign to get these smaller local councils on board.


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## Rislar

tco said:


> andyangyh said:
> 
> 
> 
> The English say, "Why should we?" while the French say, "Why not?" .
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is called enterprise. A word perhaps that local councils in UK wouldn't recognise.
> 
> Tco
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem, as ever we are way behind everyone else through the shear single minded nonsense of the powers that be, it really annoys me that they get paid, to work on our behalf yet they still couldn't make a decision if their life depended on it!!


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## larrywatters

Sorry to say this but we will never have them here, why ? remember the great British public, me first not in my back yard or lets vandalizes it, or the motor home owners that leave rubbish and other things? and Leave there waste tap open.  And don’t forget little jimmy who knows there are no local police to stop them breaking in to your pride and joy or spray painting the side. :twisted: 
Sorry for this rant, but we stop at two pub with big car parks needed to eat and have a Large glass red ( we would have spent up to forty + pounds ) to be told not after the last lot??? We ended up at ten of the clock in a lay-by on the A12 bliss  back to la France and live on the wild side of life


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## Grizzly

tco said:


> Coming from the boating fraternity, I can report that most villages in France having a canal or navigable river nearby provide moorings to encourage boaters to visit their village AND SPEND MONEY. These are usually free and sometimes have EHU's and free water. They are usually very well cared for and are regarded as an asset to the village.


So do most UK river and canal side towns. Mooring, fresh water , domestic waste bins and waste pump out places are provided. They are not however free for all, only those who have paid for a licence from the relevant river or canal authority. It is the river or canal authority who provide them, paid out of the licences bought. If you are a private boat you pay for your own licence, if you hire a boat then it comes as part of your hire fee.

The boat I know most about - a narrowboat- pays £600 per year. That is £50 per month. Would any of us be willing to pay £50 a month for unlimited use of aires and bornes ? I doubt it.

G


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## andyangyh

_think you need to leave the local authorities out and start with the parish councils and show them they can make some cash for the small town and village and let them work on the local authorities 
at this time the village pub/shop/hall needs every £ they can _

The problem is that France and the UK have very different governmental structures. The local mayor in France has a lot of power. I have a house in France and I'd better have a friend in the Marie if I want to do any building work etc. My father was a Town Mayor in the days when Town Councils existed and had a role in planning etc. but he didn't have the sort of power comparable to a French mayor. His role was purely ceremonial. Parish councils in this country are impotent bodies. Your local parish council wants an aire? They approach the District Council (they have to - they can't authorise anything themselves). Out will come Ms Risk Assessment Officer and tell them forty reasons why they can't. She'll be followed by Mr Planning Officer who'll give them another twenty reasons why it can't be done. Then the local residents will start a petition to stop it ("Travellers!" Gypsies!") Then the local campsites will start agitating. You want an aire but the locals will far outnumber you and they don't see the point.

You understand the economic arguments. I understand the economic arguments but if local businesses are so clued up how come Carol's attempt to start up a scheme similar to France Passion foundered? Lack of enthusiasm on her part or the members of this forum? Hardly. The people it was aimed at - local businesses such as pubs and restaurants etc - didn't see the advantages or didn't want to take a chance or ran into officialdom (Ms Risk Assessment or Mr Planning or, worse still, Mr Insurance Person). We in the UK don't have the history, we don't have the attitude, we don't have the popular support.

Just look what's happening to local Post Offices. The locals want them to stay. The Parish Councils want them to stay. Hell, even the District Councils want them to stay open. How many of them are going to close? Look at the "success" of these local campaigns and ask yourself what chance any campaign to build a network of parking places for motorhomes in small villages has.


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## Rislar

andyangyh said:


> _think you need to leave the local authorities out and start with the parish councils and show them they can make some cash for the small town and village and let them work on the local authorities
> at this time the village pub/shop/hall needs every £ they can _
> 
> The problem is that France and the UK have very different governmental structures. The local mayor in France has a lot of power. I have a house in France and I'd better have a friend in the Marie if I want to do any building work etc. My father was a Town Mayor in the days when Town Councils existed and had a role in planning etc. but he didn't have the sort of power comparable to a French mayor. His role was purely ceremonial. Parish councils in this country are impotent bodies. Your local parish council wants an aire? They approach the District Council (they have to - they can't authorise anything themselves). Out will come Ms Risk Assessment Officer and tell them forty reasons why they can't. She'll be followed by Mr Planning Officer who'll give them another twenty reasons why it can't be done. Then the local residents will start a petition to stop it ("Travellers!" Gypsies!") Then the local campsites will start agitating. You want an aire but the locals will far outnumber you and they don't see the point.
> 
> You understand the economic arguments. I understand the economic arguments but if local businesses are so clued up how come Carol's attempt to start up a scheme similar to France Passion foundered. Lack of enthusiasm on her part or the members of this forum? Hardly. The people it was aimed at - local businesses such as pubs and restaurants etc - didn't see the advantages or didn't want to take a chance or ran into officialdom (Ms Risk Assessment or Mr Planning or, worse still, Mr Insurance Person). We in the UK don't have the history, we don't have the attitude, we don't have the popular support.
> 
> Just look what's happening to local Post Offices. The locals want them to stay. The Parish Councils want them to stay. Hell, even the District Councils want them to stay open. How many of them are going to close? Look at the "success" of these local campaigns and ask yourself what chance any campaign to build a network of parking places for motorhomes in small villages has.


Excellent stuff, couldn't agree with you more


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## Boff

Hi!



chapter said:


> i think you need to leave the local authorities out and start with the parish councils and show them they can make some cash for the small town and village and let them work on the local authorities
> at this time the village pub/shop/hall needs every £ they can
> chapter


This is certainly true. Fact is that in both France and Germany the first towns to provide aire/stellplatz sites were places left aside by the touristic main stream.

Take for instance the town of Viechtach in Germany. A pretty spa town in a beautiful landscape, but then it became overshadowed by the "Iron Curtain" after WW2. Tourism, once their major source of income, came on a steady decline. So in 1983 the local tourist office director had the idea to allow motorhomes (which were at that time mainly campervans) to spend up to 3 nights on certain local car parks. Originally intended as a proof of concept, this project required a one-time investment of DEM 7,000, but brought an _additional_ income of about DEM 200,000 to the local economy just in the first 4 months pilot phase! So the town council quickly decided to make this permanent, and the very first _Stellplatz_ was born. Other towns followed, again not the world famous tourist attractions like Heidelberg or Munich, but less-visited places like Rotenburg/Fulda or Nuremberg.



Patrick_Phillips said:


> I think we need to bear in mind land availability.
> We have roughly the same number of people living on about 38% of the land that the French have.


This may be true for France, but not for Germany: Germany has approx. the same population density as GB. But at least as many stellplatz sites as France has aires du camping-car. If not more nowadays.

Certainly I, as a foreign visitor to the UK, would be very happy if there were aires. Both CL or CS sites are hardly an alternative for foreign tourists, because they require club membership which is simply not worthwile for a 2-3 weeks visit. And, as others have already pointed out, many of them have no hard standing.

And there is absolutely no need to make them free of charge. In fact, the majority of German stellplatz sites is not free, but asks for a (nominal) fee - usually by a Pay&Display scheme, or at least provides an honesty box for voluntary donations. What makes stellplatz and aires so attractive is not the price but the sheer simplicity: Pull up, get ticket from machine if required, maybe have a chat with the neighbours, have a beer, sleep, move on next morning.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## carol

As Andy has said and some on here remember I did try to start BRITISH PASSION with the agreement of FRANCE PASSION - I did get 20 various businesses throughout UK - and yes the attitude was - What's init for me?

The other problem was when it came for people to actually back me before I paid out a lot of money - all my time had been free - they didn't - we'll wait to see how it goes - it didn't. Being retired I had needed positive backing now (well then)

We have a different mindset to the French - so we go there and enjoy it

Carol


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## Solwaybuggier

> Iamb not sure your right Derek, CI's & CS's are normally just a field, very few are hard standing so they are not suitable for us in the wetter times we normally suffer during the winter months. If they all installed hard standings then yes, we probably would not need anything else.


I don't think that's true - it may be because we tend to look for the ones with EHU but we've found around 50/50 with hardstandings. I'd have thought it's at least 25%, and certainly more than "very few".


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## OldWomble

I don't think that's true - it may be because we tend to look for the ones with EHU but we've found around 50/50 with hardstandings. I'd have thought it's at least 25%, and certainly more than "very few".[/quote]

That may be the case up your way but you try and find a nice CS with hardstanding that can take a 7m van and within walking/cycling distance of a pub or cafe down here in Sussex - we've found 2 in the last 3 years!!! Oh, and I have no need for EHU whatsoever so that does not even enter into the equation.


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## OldWomble

Grizzly said:


> tco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from the boating fraternity, I can report that most villages in France having a canal or navigable river nearby provide moorings to encourage boaters to visit their village AND SPEND MONEY. These are usually free and sometimes have EHU's and free water. They are usually very well cared for and are regarded as an asset to the village.
> 
> 
> 
> So do most UK river and canal side towns. Mooring, fresh water , domestic waste bins and waste pump out places are provided. They are not however free for all, only those who have paid for a licence from the relevant river or canal authority. It is the river or canal authority who provide them, paid out of the licences bought. If you are a private boat you pay for your own licence, if you hire a boat then it comes as part of your hire fee.
> 
> The boat I know most about - a narrowboat- pays £600 per year. That is £50 per month. Would any of us be willing to pay £50 a month for unlimited use of aires and bornes ? I doubt it.
> 
> G
Click to expand...

Why not? that equates to 2 - 3 nights on a CC site and many people are happy to pay that! If £50/month gave access to parking facilities in all towns and villages all over the UK (like France, Germany & others) then I think a lot less people would take their money abroad and home tourism would increase massively. We live in a beautiful country but we cannot afford to tour it. Also, what is the point in spending tens of thousands on a motorhome if we then have to use it as a caravan!!!


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## Grizzly

OldWomble said:


> Why not? that equates to 2 - 3 nights on a CC site and many people are happy to pay that! If £50/month gave access to parking facilities in all towns and villages all over the UK (like France, Germany & others) then I think a lot less people would take their money abroad


I seriously doubt whether, when it came to pay up time, you'd get many -any ? - motorhomers willing to pay a yearly fee of £600 more or less upfront. Most- not all- owners of inland waterways boats have little choice but to cruise UK inland waters and so the upfront fee is a one off and covers your years' leisure activity. We have the choice of taking our van to Europe and so have to pay European aires and campsites, road tax and ferry fares as well. We don't get cheaper diesel either but that's another argument !

G


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## pippin

You may remember that Barmouth/Abermaw residents were campaigning to get the county council (Gwynedd) to ban the parking of morothomes along the promenade.

Gwynedd Council have apparently made the relevent orders and will be signing and marking the road along the prom to prohibit motorhomes from parking.

I quote (partially) from the 6th November 2008 edition of the Cambrian News letters to the editor.

In response to comments by Cllr ** that he hoped changes to the parking laws would prevent the parking of camper vans on Barmouth promenade,
I trust our councillors appreciate that by excluding this important, expanding, all-year tourist activity they will be depriving our local traders of significant benefits.

Whilst I agree they probably don't buy many cups of tea from the front cafés, 
they do buy food and fuel and support gift shops, pubs, restaurants and tourist attractions.

I spoke to a Dutch couple during the summer who were in the area for three months and only this week a fisherman who was staying until the end of November.

These are, in the main, responsible retirees pursuing this aspect of tourism, often an all-year activity.

Most mainland Europe towns and villages appreciate these benefits and provide free or minimal charge basic facilities for motorhomes.

However, we need look no further than our neighbouring county of Powys to see a more enlightened welcoming treatment of visitors - motorhomers are invited to avail themselves of the council overnight parking stays at no charge.

Yours etc

and no it was not me who wrote that letter!

Incidentally, I work in our local leisure centre, Tywyn.

We have a large adjacent carpark which is now pay and display. 
It is administered by Gwynedd Council, who run the LC.
The LC benefits from the income.

Now, it has occurred to me that this carpark is generally deserted overnight.

It would be relatively easy to remark some of the bays to make them MH size.
It would be simple to adapt the pay and display machine to provide overnight or 24 hour tickets for MHs.
The carpark is not overlooked by any housing, despite being in the centre of town.

I have taken my proposals, informally, to the manager of the LC whose eyes lit up at the thought of the extra income.

Ditto to the Chairman of the town Chamber of Trade whose shop is directly opposite the entrance. Enthusiastic!

Ditto to the Clerk to the Town Council who informs me that the old preponderance of farmers-with-campsites on council has gone.

So, I am making a start using the bottom-up approach.


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## OldWomble

pippin said:


> You may remember that Barmouth/Abermaw residents were campaigning to get the county council (Gwynedd) to ban the parking of morothomes along the promenade.
> 
> Gwynedd Council have apparently made the relevent orders and will be signing and marking the road along the prom to prohibit motorhomes from parking.
> 
> I quote (partially) from the 6th November 2008 edition of the Cambrian News letters to the editor.
> 
> In response to comments by Cllr ** that he hoped changes to the parking laws would prevent the parking of camper vans on Barmouth promenade,
> I trust our councillors appreciate that by excluding this important, expanding, all-year tourist activity they will be depriving our local traders of significant benefits.
> 
> Whilst I agree they probably don't buy many cups of tea from the front cafés,
> they do buy food and fuel and support gift shops, pubs, restaurants and tourist attractions.
> 
> I spoke to a Dutch couple during the summer who were in the area for three months and only this week a fisherman who was staying until the end of November.
> 
> These are, in the main, responsible retirees pursuing this aspect of tourism, often an all-year activity.
> 
> Most mainland Europe towns and villages appreciate these benefits and provide free or minimal charge basic facilities for motorhomes.
> 
> However, we need look no further than our neighbouring county of Powys to see a more enlightened welcoming treatment of visitors - motorhomers are invited to avail themselves of the council overnight parking stays at no charge.
> 
> Yours etc
> 
> and no it was not me who wrote that letter!
> 
> Incidentally, I work in our local leisure centre, Tywyn.
> 
> We have a large adjacent carpark which is now pay and display.
> It is administered by Gwynedd Council, who run the LC.
> The LC benefits from the income.
> 
> Now, it has occurred to me that this carpark is generally deserted overnight.
> 
> It would be relatively easy to remark some of the bays to make them MH size.
> It would be simple to adapt the pay and display machine to provide overnight or 24 hour tickets for MHs.
> The carpark is not overlooked by any housing, despite being in the centre of town.
> 
> I have taken my proposals, informally, to the manager of the LC whose eyes lit up at the thought of the extra income.
> 
> Ditto to the Chairman of the town Chamber of Trade whose shop is directly opposite the entrance. Enthusiastic!
> 
> Ditto to the Clerk to the Town Council who informs me that the old preponderance of farmers-with-campsites on council has gone.
> 
> So, I am making a start using the bottom-up approach.


Brilliant Pippin, now if we could all do this locally.....


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## oldun

Yes I like the idea of Aires in the UK but the question I ask is why should tax payers and rate payers subsidize parking for motorhomers when everyone else is being asked to pay more and more for all the other facilities such as car parking?

The (now) free Riverside car park in St Neots is going to become fee paying with only about 20 spaces remaining free for short term parking.

The idea that it brings extra resources into the local area is doubtful. How many of you using Aires spend much money really locally that you would not have spent if the site had been fee paying?

Its well known that many French towns and villages are getting rid of Municipal sites or else they are letting them out as a franchise.

The original owner of Camping Cheques has (I believe) put the money up for the purchase of around 100 Municipal sites.


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## pippin

The short answer to your point about spending the same amount of money whether we are on a free (or cheap) Aire (or wildcamping) or on a fee-paying site overlooks the point that a sizeable number of MHers do not want to stay on expensive sites with lots of unwanted/unused facilities.

Many of us will simply avoid those areas and go elsewhere to spend our money.


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## Glandwr

Powys, the paradise of mid Wales, permits MH over night parking in most of its owned carparks in the towns of the county. 

The only stipulation is that you can't return for 7 days. Are these not 
de facto "aires". If only more councils could be so enlightened.

Dick


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## Grizzly

pippin said:


> ..... overlooks the point that a sizeable number of MHers do not want to stay on expensive sites with lots of unwanted/unused facilities.
> 
> .


But many CL/CS have only as many facilities - or less- than the average aire and cost less. Many times we've paid more for aires and sosta in Europe than for a CL/CS in UK.

Paying £6-7 per night for a quiet field, fresh water tap and possibly a place to dump waste water is reasonable and many are situated in beautiful parts of the country.

Our local " aire"- aka a lorry park that allows MHs to overnight-charges £10 per night for no facilities. It's in a lovely place beside the river but a local CS on a farm nearby is far better value and does have water.

I'd rather support UK farmers than park overnight on a car park or in a layby- even if they were free.

G


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## peedee

An interesting read. I also think aires are a lost cause in this country.
If you look at the MHF stopover stats the average stopover is 2.55 days and the most popular country is UK. That does not indicate that there are too many people who just want to overnight everywhere and spend their time on French type Aires?

Our biggest problem is finding somewhere to park when we want to visit places, we do have cheap camping sites in the form of CLs and CS unfortunately many are located far from where we want to be and are unsuitable in all weathers.

A better approach in my view is to lobby councils for better parking facilities and the clubs to encourage CL CS owners to provide all weather pitches and to provide 'quickstop' type facilities even if the latter are only available outside of peak times.

peedee


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## Grizzly

peedee said:


> A better approach in my view is to lobby councils for better parking facilities and the clubs to encourage CL CS owners to provide all weather pitches and to provide 'quickstop' type facilities even if the latter are only available outside of peak times.
> 
> peedee


Good point peedee however, I pass the Oxford (Redbridge) P&R motorhome stopover practically every day and it is a red letter day when we see a MH parked there. So far not one this year.

I've been banging on to Oxford CC to allow overnighting but, as they rightly point out, no-one even uses it for a day so can it be necessary to maintain it ?

I've suggested it would help if they advertised it more widely and signposted it but it is in MHF and on the motorhomeparking website so I'm not sure about this.

G


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## peedee

Have you ever seen a sign indicating motorhome parking available in this direction or can you guarantee when you do follow a parking sign you will find space and no height barriers. Councils need to wake up to the fact that all most of us want is somewhere to park to make a visit.

peedee


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## peedee

I have just looked at MHF campsite database, you cannot search for a parking spot? Perhaps a good start is to have this facility. I feel sure they are in there but can you not search for them?

peedee


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## Californiadreamer

As has been stated previously the CC and CCC clubs would not support the siting of Aires, obviously because they would be a form of competition. Although their membership numbers actually exceed the supply of available site places.

The cost of staying at one of these sites is no longer 'value' and even some CS/CL's with hard standing and electric are now £12 upwards per night.

I agree that better parking facilities in towns/cities would help but I do support the case for providing Aire type stopovers. Even some of the places that have now banned motorhome parking on their sea front would benefit from providing a facility in a less obvious part of the town.

Surely there must now be enough of us motorhomers to lobby for facilities. There are, for instance, nearly 44,000 members of Motorhome Facts... count in all the other forums. Are we not enough in number to make our voices heard? Why don't we join forces and campaign for change?


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## Annsman

The touble is not ALL motorhome owners support the use of aires and the like. A lot are ardent campsite users and wouldn't entertain even stopping over night in a car park or layby. You only have to read any of the threads on wildcamping to pick that up. Read this months' MMM magazine to see the reaction by some to wildcamping on The Western Isles, where it is tolerated, to see what they think of "freeloading" in 40-50 thousand pound motorhomes!


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## coppo

Annsman said:


> The touble is not ALL motorhome owners support the use of aires and the like. A lot are ardent campsite users and wouldn't entertain even stopping over night in a car park or layby. You only have to read any of the threads on wildcamping to pick that up. Read this months' MMM magazine to see the reaction by some to wildcamping on The Western Isles, where it is tolerated, to see what they think of "freeloading" in 40-50 thousand pound motorhomes!


Yes, i agree
A lot of the motorhome 'establishment' so to speak want everyone to stay on £20 plus sites a night, buy a brand new van every 3 years, never wild camp.

Thats why a lot do their motorhoming abroad.

Paul.


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