# Breaking The 'Unwritten Rule'!!



## jimmyd0g

Just back from a 3 week+ tour of South West England & Herefordshire. Nobody told us about the interesting weather that they get down there - especially in North Devon .
Anyway, we had a particularly annoying problem (made worse by the campsite managements' attitude) on a site near Fowey. Having decided to drive off the site for a few hours, We left our electric cable & a small collapsable picnic table behind as pitch markers. we returned from our day out & Mrs j. noticed that the table was missing. We had a quick look to see if the site staff had moved the table whilst mowing the area - no sign. A walk around the site & we noticed a table very like ours under the awning of some tenters. Short of a direct accusation there was no way we could prove the table was ours - but the coincidence was too much. We also told the site office of the theft. We decided that we now felt uneasy on the site (somebody had clearly 'clocked' & stolen our property) but didn't fancy trying to find another site at 4-30 p.m. in Cornwall in early August. Thus we told the site we would be leaving the following morning (a day early) & asked for a refund of the one night we would leaving early. What a fight! Firstly - 'no refunds'. Then - 'only the owner can agree a refund but he's not back yet from his job at Asda'. Then - 'no refund as your husband said the table isn't worth much & anyway, nothing like this has ever happened before'. Then Mrs j. asked a quiet man sat at the back of the office if he was the owner - he was & she _finally_ got us a £25-00 cash refund. 
So firstly I'm cheesed off with whoever nicked our table - breaking the unwritten 'whatever is left on a pitch stays on a pitch' rule.
Secondly - the campsite in question only has one review. It was, ironically, written by Nuke & is very positive. All I can say is, Nuke, that you clearly never had dealings with the obstructive & lying management of the site concerned.


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## geraldandannie

This is so sad. As you said, Jimmy, it is an unwritten rule that nothing gets touched on someone's pitch. Maybe they thought you'd left the site, and the table behind?

Gerald


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## ched999uk

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Maybe it would be worth you adding your review to help the rest of us avoid the site in the future.


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## jimmyd0g

geraldandannie said:


> This is so sad. As you said, Jimmy, it is an unwritten rule that nothing gets touched on someone's pitch. Maybe they thought you'd left the site, and the table behind?
> 
> Gerald


That was my first, charitable, thought. However, the electric cable & the dog lead spiral thing (I don't know their correct name) that were by our pitch & were untouched should have made it clear to any honest campers that we were due back.


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## jimmyd0g

ched999uk said:


> Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Maybe it would be worth you adding your review to help the rest of us avoid the site in the future.


I thought about that & even looked at the campsites review form earlier. However (something for Nuke to consider?) the form asks for too much info - much of which is not immediately to hand - so I won't be adding a review. However if Nuke, or one of the admins, says it's legal to do so I am quite prepared to name & shame the site. If I do name & shame it will not be because a table was nicked (sadly these things can happen) but because of the quite appalling attitude of the site staff.


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## spykal

jimmyd0g said:


> I thought about that & even looked at the campsites review form earlier. However (something for Nuke to consider?) the form asks for too much info - much of which is not immediately to hand - so I won't be adding a review. However if Nuke, or one of the admins, says it's legal to do so I am quite prepared to name & shame the site. If I do name & shame it will not be because a table was nicked (sadly these things can happen) but because of the quite appalling attitude of the site staff.


Hi Jimmy

I think you may be getting a bit mixed up between adding a campsite and adding a review to an existing entry ... the site is already in the database so all you have to do is go to it and then click on:
"Write a Review"









to add a members review ...there are no requirements other than to write what you want to write about the site, no site details are required just your honest opinion based on your visit ... please do keep it truthfull and provable ( those are the two things to get right if you wish to avoid a libel charge :wink: ).

Mike

whoops  I forgot to add that I too was sorry to hear that you had that happen ...we have our own rule now..nothing gets left outside the van and all we leave on a pitch when we go out is a marker post... unfortunately it's a sign of the times ...( no I do not mean the marker :lol: )


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## peedee

I can hardly see it is the site owners fault that got your table nicked!
Its more than likely down to the calibre of the campers staying there. Its also much better to use a pitch marker rather than leave electric cable etc lying around. 

Sad to say, you're not the first to lose belongings from a campsite and no doubt will not be the last

peedee


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## BillCreer

Sorry I have to agree with PeeDee. Can't see, from what you say, that the site employees did a lot wrong.


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## GEMMY

On no occasion in the 7 weeks in France did lose or feel in the least uncomfortable. At Allemont a guy was having trouble with his bike, asked in pigeon English did I have any allen keys, Knowing me, I carry the proverbial kichen sink, never did I think he wouldn't return them. In Albertville another Frenchie, seeing I had push bikes on the rack asked if he could loan my bike pump, needless to say hadn't got one, so I loaned him a powerpack, inflator/jumpstarter thing. It was returned in 10 mins with thanks galore. The only place I'm wary is Britain.You can't trust em. 8) 

tony


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## Glandwr

First of all Jimmy sympathy. It's not the value is it it's the violation? 

As regards the owner/manager. A reasonable request for a refund for early departure should not have been met with prevarication and lies.

A successful business should factor in goodwill, especially when customers have been through a trauma.

Name and shame, even if only for the uncaring attitude.

Dick


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## jimmyd0g

Glandwr said:


> First of all Jimmy sympathy. It's not the value is it it's the violation?
> 
> As regards the owner/manager. A reasonable request for a refund for early departure should not have been met with prevarication and lies.
> 
> A successful business should factor in goodwill, especially when customers have been through a trauma.
> 
> Name and shame, even if only for the uncaring attitude.
> 
> Dick


Since Spykal told me, earlier, how to add a review I have written one. As it has now been accepted & is hidden away on these pages I'll assume that there is no problem in naming the site as Penmarlam, Cornwall.


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## Grizzly

We've got our van registration number painted on the bucket that we leave as a pitch marker but I will admit to painting it underneath the Fiamma step that we have outside the hab door as well. 

We've never had anything stolen and, like Gemmy, anything we have lent has always come back. The step looks quite vulnerable however and at least this way, if it ever does go missing, I've only got to turn it upside down and our mark is on the bottom.

I always take the tables and chairs inside when we leave the van for a day. We never used to but times do seem to have changed a little. 

G


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## HeatherChloe

Glandwr said:


> A successful business should factor in goodwill, especially when customers have been through a trauma.


Do you think you have got this a bit out of proportion?

Having someone steal your camping table that you left unattended on a site is obviously wrong, but it's hardly a "trauma" is it?

If you felt that these other people on the site had in fact stolen your table, naturally one can't just accuse them (especially if you have no particular identifying marks on it - surprising since most tables get a bit bashed about and you can recognise your own scratches).

But on the otherhand, it was their presence that made you feel "uneasy". Other ways could have involved popping over to their and other tents and say "oh watch out if you leave your site, as there's a thief about - we've had our table stolen" and then engage the people in a general chit chat.

If you did that with a few people first, then went to the one with the table, you could do the same, and say "oh we've warned a few people" and then you could go "oh gosh, it's just like that one, actually. We're going to go and buy a new one just the same - but we got ours at a show and I don't know where the stockist are. Do you know where we can buy one like this?" You'll have known immediately if they had stolen yours or not.

You could have called the police and asked them to fingerprint the table to see if your fingerprints were on it! But the police might have thought it an overreaction.

It seems you choose to leave because you were cross your table had been stolen and you suspected these other people and just had a bad taste in your mouth. Shame, because you ended your holiday early and were unhappy.

But then you doubled your unhappiness by getting cross with the site staff member, who was probably just following the rules. In terms of the site staff, it's summer holidays and the staff member probably knows there is a policy that someone who has paid and wants their money back (thereby leaving them with an unsold pitch 
in peak season) is not entitled to their money back - especially if it's not the campsite's fault why they want to leave. Otherwise, people could be coming up with excuses all the time.

That said, they did check with the owner and you did get your money back. So that's not that bad. You got your money back, even though the campsite was not at fault.

I'd just try to move on. The more you repeat the story, the more unhappy you might get.

Go buy yourself a nice new, fancy table, and tippex your name underneath it!


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## JohnWebb

I never trust anyone nowadays, too old and caught too many times! When we leave our pitch we leave the scooter with the steering locked and its wheel lock on. Without keys it cant be moved except by two or three blokes and a van and they will have to do a lot of work to start it. I have not got round to making a bespoke market post for the present van yet, generic ones get nicked.


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## robrace

*Lifes too short*

Come and tell the two friends that i have that are dying of Cancer that you are pissed off because someone has stolen your table!Puts it into perspective.My mate put up with his wife smoking 40 to 50 a day for years.She was never ill but dropped dead with a heart attack last year at 62!a,few months later he was found to be suffering with throat cancer and it's terminal.He always said they would get a camper when they retired .Too late now..


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## GEMMY

Robrace, that is totally uncalled for on this thread. :evil: 

tony


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## jimmyd0g

*Re: Lifes too short*



robrace said:


> Come and tell the two friends that i have that are dying of Cancer that you are ****ed off because someone has stolen your table!Puts it into perspective.My mate put up with his wife smoking 40 to 50 a day for years.She was never ill but dropped dead with a heart attack last year at 62!a,few months later he was found to be suffering with throat cancer and it's terminal.He always said they would get a camper when they retired .Too late now..


Sorry, but I really don't see how this post helps the thread. Nowhere have I suggested that the theft of a table (that would probably have been replaced this winter, anyway) is as bad or traumatic as a life threatening disease or illness. Nor, Heather (previous post), did the theft greatly effect the holiday (other than having to find a replacement table in darkest Cornwall). However, the point remains that we unexpectedly found that our property had been stolen (not very nice) & the campsite made no attempts to understand why we wished to cut or stay short (bad customer service in my opinion).


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## Pard

HeatherChloe's response is the logical one. I can't see why you'd expect the campsite to refund you £25 because you don't want to stay on, when the theft was nothing to do with them. Would you leave your property unattended in the foyer of a large hotel you were staying in, go out for the day and expect it to be there when you returned? Same principle. Whilst I too would be mightily miffed in the same circumstances, it's an acceptance of personal responsibility which seems lacking here, and the wish to blame someone else, which I can't go along with.

As others have said, a simple notice such as those sold by the Caravan Club, saying "Motorhome using this pitch" is a better solution. 

As for difficulties in finding camping shops in 'darkest Cornwall', there are several - the nearest to Fowey is probably the one near London Apprentice, just off the St Austell-Mevagissey road. I'd guess the site might have suggested it and offered directions if you'd asked them. It's a pity to muddy the reputation of any business by online criticism when the fault appears to lie closer to home.

I hope you'll be able to forget this incident, but I'd suggest looking after your possessions at least as carefully as you would at home.


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## HeatherChloe

*Re: Lifes too short*



jimmyd0g said:


> Nor, Heather (previous post), did the theft greatly effect the holiday (other than having to find a replacement table in darkest Cornwall). However, the point remains that we unexpectedly found that our property had been stolen (not very nice) & the campsite made no attempts to understand why we wished to cut or stay short (bad customer service in my opinion).


I'm glad the theft did not affect your holiday.

You were sufficiently upset that you felt you had to leave immediately. I'm sorry you felt that way.

However, you weren't prepared to just leave without getting your £25 back for the next day.

As I said before, to be fair, the young staff member was not authorised to make a refund and had to contact the owner, which if I recall correctly was working at Asda?

I imagine that if the owner were a wealthy landowner he might not also be working shifts at Asda.

The refund you insisted on because you were upset was probably a day's wages at Asda after tax - but give him his due, he gave it to you back, even though you left without notice due to something which wasn't the campsite's fault at all. And he then probably had an unsold pitch the next day. Maybe Asda can give him some overtime?

Anyway, I think it is easy to be cross with the campsite, when really you are cross with the selfish people who took your table. Who you are right to be cross with as it's a nasty thing to do.

Anyway, hopefully your new Darkest Cornwall table is a good one and you can enjoy yourself with it for the rest of the summer.


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## Telbell

Bad luck re the table jimmy

I know it's hindsight & all that but I think I'd have been tempted to go down the "HeatherChloe" route and somehow get myself a closer look at the table......a bit of chat & see what their reaction was. 

Annoying-and disappointing -when things like that happen


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## 100127

Glandwr said:


> First of all Jimmy sympathy. It's not the value is it it's the violation?
> 
> As regards the owner/manager. A reasonable request for a refund for early departure should not have been met with prevarication and lies.
> 
> A successful business should factor in goodwill, especially when customers have been through a trauma.
> 
> Name and shame, even if only for the uncaring attitude.
> 
> Dick


Agreed, name and shame.


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## erneboy

Name and shame who? The camp site didn't nick the table nor did they cause it to be nicked.

I am sorry to hear Jimmy's story but it has nothing at all to do with the site owners, Alan.


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## BillCreer

It is possible that the "Tenters" might have seen an empty space that had some old equipment dumped on it by its previous occupants.

Being "green" types they decided to recycle it.

On your return, if they noticed, they would only see you as new occupants.


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## drcotts

we have one of the caravan clubs purpose made "motorhome using this pitch" signs which we used on the caravan Club at broadway a couple of years ago.

We came back to find a bloke in another Mh in our pitch. When i told him it was ours i was told to F>>K off I aint moving. (poor bloke he had pitched an awning and tied 2 staffys up outside.)

I went and told the warden who said "well just find anoter pitch"

So even signs wont work.

Justice was done though as someone let his tyres down during the night. And my compressor wasnt working that day.


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## colpot

I think it would be prudent to mark any belongings you are thinking of leaving on site to reserve your pitch.


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## SpeedyDux

drcotts said:


> we have one of the caravan clubs purpose made "motorhome using this pitch" signs which we used on the caravan Club at broadway a couple of years ago.
> 
> We came back to find a bloke in another Mh in our pitch. When i told him it was ours i was told to F>>K off I aint moving. (poor bloke he had pitched an awning and tied 2 staffys up outside.)
> 
> I went and told the warden who said "well just find anoter pitch"
> 
> So even signs wont work.
> 
> Justice was done though as someone let his tyres down during the night. And my compressor wasnt working that day.


We had a similar experience. Left a pitch reserved marker, told the Reception we were going out for the day and would be back later same day ... to find on our return that another member of the site staff had dragged a caravan out of seasonal storage onto "our" pitch to await the arrival of another customer. . .

To be fair, after we complained they did remove the caravan and aopologised for the mix-up. Still, failing to take notice of the pitch marker was a bit stupid.

Back to the OP's point, we never leave any belongings lying unattended on the pitch (except the pitch marker). You can't trust anyone especially British campers. I reckon if they nicked your table nowadays they would just brazen it out and you would expect a torrent of abuse. That alone would spoil my holiday.

SD


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## erneboy

Let's assume you have marked your goods and you see what you think might be your table or whatever in use on another pitch, what do you do? Walk over and say, "can I look at your table as ours has just been stolen and we marked it so we could identify it?" Surely not, that is as good as accusing them of theft and much of the stuff we have is very common, they could well have one the same as the one you are missing.

Genuine question, how would you approach it? Even if you had marked it and could see your mark you will still appear to be accusing someone of stealing and it's your word against theirs how the mark got there. They will surely deny it, what do you do then. 

Would you expect the camp site staff to grasp the nettle for you? Alan.


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## mrbricolage

I cannot believe some of the replies on this thread!!

If I were the campsite owner I would be pretty concerned that this sort of thing was going on my site and the possible damage to the reputation of the site it might do. I would have approached the people on the behalf of the victims of the theft.
If you are tactful usually most matters can be resolved amicably.

I think protecting your pitch position is the responsibility of the site owner so I never leave anything but my hook up cable. Although when we were camping the other week we did have a caravanner erect a windbreak, washing line around where our EHU was plugged in. Didnt bother me all that much. I think he was more bothered when I walked straight through his pitch to unplug my cable as there was no other way :wink:

I will also point you to the following article which should help any future problems

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...s/Stay-secure-with-Yale-s-top-tips/_ch1_ft637


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Sad experience for you Jimmy.

It is sad when things go walkies. You do not know who to trust.

Our son had a new England shirt nicked in France several years ago.
It was left on the line drying.

A couple of days later a young foreign non English speaking lad was wearing it.
When asked about where he had got it from he said that he had found it on the beach. His mate spoke perfect English
No fuss we let him keep it.

Everything that is likely to be left outside, or stolen is clearly marked with registration number in Permanent marker and where possible engraved.
Our last caravan had more postcode engravings than a modern work of art.

Dave p


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## jimmyd0g

erneboy said:


> Let's assume you have marked your goods and you see what you think might be your table or whatever in use on another pitch, what do you do? Walk over and say, "can I look at your table as ours has just been stolen and we marked it so we could identify it?" Surely not, that is as good as accusing them of theft and much of the stuff we have is very common, they could well have one the same as the one you are missing.
> 
> Genuine question, how would you approach it? Even if you had marked it and could see your mark you will still appear to be accusing someone of stealing and it's your word against theirs how the mark got there. They will surely deny it, what do you do then.
> 
> Would you expect the camp site staff to grasp the nettle for you? Alan.


This was one of our problems. We know that the table had certain wear & tear marks that (even now) I could describe. Many of those marks were underneath the table & were likely to be unique. _However_ it would have been very difficult for us, or the site staff in fairness, to approach an all male party (who we think took the table) to ask if we could look underneath to check if there were any marks. 
Moving the debate on a bit, when we pay a site fee are we also, as well as for toilet blocks & leccy, etc, paying something towards the safe keeping of our belongings?


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## Grizzly

jimmyd0g said:


> Moving the debate on a bit, when we pay a site fee are we also, as well as for toilet blocks & leccy, etc, paying something towards the safe keeping of our belongings?


I wouldn't have thought so. The site owners can't be expected to patrol round or put up CCTV cameras. I'd hope that in busy urban areas they'd have security barriers and fences to stop casual visitors getting in but there's not much they can do to stop theft by people already camping there.

I wonder if something valuable- say a pair of Lamfuma loungers is stolen would an insurance company consider them insured if they'd just been left outside the van ( or underneath it as we have seen many do )? Our bikes are only insured if we leave them chained to something immovable.

G


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## DTPCHEMICALS

quote jimmyd0g:Moving the debate on a bit, when we pay a site fee are we also, as well as for toilet blocks & leccy, etc, *paying something towards the safe keeping of our belongings*

We all have a responsibility to keep our belongings safe.
The site owner surely cannot be held responsible for items left unattended.

Would you for example leave your pitch with your wallet and mobile phone on it and expect them to still be there on your return. I think not.

All I leave is a Reserved sign with registration number on it. If its nicked it is of no great value.

Dave p


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## erneboy

Thanks for the reply Jimmy.

Mrbricolage says a little tact will sort things out, perhaps he will tell us how. I can't think of a tactful way to say I want to inspect the table you are using because I think you may have just stolen it from me.

I imagine the site owner would balance the unhappiness experienced by customers who had something stolen against the unhappiness he might cause by suggesting that other customers may have taken the item and being wrong or unable to prove it even if the owner said he could confirm it was his. It's lose/lose for the owner, one unhappy customer because he has lost a table and another because he has been accused of stealing and that applies whether he did steal it or not, in fact if he did he is all the more likely to make a scene protesting his innocence, Alan.

Edit: I faced a very similar situation in my business once. The loser wanted to accuse another customer of theft or better still for me to do it on his behalf. I declined to do so.


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## rosalan

Most businesses have a clear notice that they cannot be responsible for any loss or damage on their property or they could be wide open to abuse. If this rule does apply, why should they patrol their site for security purposes.
If we leave our site, which we rarely do as the hassle of putting everything away becomes top heavy, we have a tape or line to put on pegs and sticks around the space, and one of those pictures of a van-on-a-stick with our registration on it.
If anyone wants the tape, they can have it and who wants a picture of a cut-out van with our registration on it?

As a rider, I still think that the tenty or tugger who took your property is despicable!
Alan


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## divil

Some halfwit stole our new blue washing up bucket the other week!!...needless to say we were on a British site in Cheshire!....never had a problem in France and I also have never felt uncomfortable about leaving bits and pieces on my pitch....one day I'll never have to come back to bad old blighty!


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## Senator

Sorry to hear of the loss of your table.

I think like you I would be uncomfortable being around people I suspected of stealing my property. :evil:

However, I guess from the site owners view this is 'out of their control' and they are also now down by £25 :wink: I think you would be entitled to your money back if they ran over your cable with the mower and you were ticked off about that and wanted to leave.

I would have stayed that extra night just to annoy the accused. At least they wouldn't' feel comfortable using the table if I was still around.  

As a matter of interest did you ask the tenters about the table? It is always possible kids borrowed it and didn't return it :?:

On a more positive note we were in the Fowey (Lostwithiel) area a few weeks ago and loved Fowey!

Mark


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## DTPCHEMICALS

The theives may have been miles away before yoe returned to your pitch.

Dave p


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## jimmyd0g

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> The theives may have been miles away before yoe returned to your pitch.
> 
> Dave p


There is a strong suspicion (but no more than that) that the thieves were all of 30 yards away the whole time were were on the site.


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## pneumatician

Sadly the "Low Life" are everywhere and with the availability of family camping kits for little more than a £100 more will find their way on to camp sites.

Friends had their camping table and chairs nicked this year.
Now if the chairs were Lafuma that's about £180 worth. 

Steve


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## Bill_H

BillCreer said:


> It is possible that the "Tenters" might have seen an empty space that had some old equipment dumped on it by its previous occupants.
> 
> Being "green" types they decided to recycle it.
> 
> On your return, if they noticed, they would only see you as new occupants.


My first thought as well, an old (you say) table dumped on a pitch.
Tenters might not realise that this is the recognised way of saying 'this pitch is taken and we'll be back'
Equally, tenters might not use EHU and not know that the electric cable was also a sign that the pitch was occupied.
Why didn't you just ask the campers about it, they may well have said 'oh sorry didn't realise' and buy you a pint as apology.
I don't expect a cross section of people on a camp site are any more honest that any other collection of people.


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## erneboy

Please tell me how you could ask without those concerned thinking you are calling them thieves? Alan.


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## mrbricolage

erneboy said:


> Thanks for the reply Jimmy.
> 
> Mrbricolage says a little tact will sort things out, perhaps he will tell us how. I can't think of a tactful way to say I want to inspect the table you are using because I think you may have just stolen it from me.
> 
> I imagine the site owner would balance the unhappiness experienced by customers who had something stolen against the unhappiness he might cause by suggesting that other customers may have taken the item and being wrong or unable to prove it even if the owner said he could confirm it was his. It's lose/lose for the owner, one unhappy customer because he has lost a table and another because he has been accused of stealing and that applies whether he did steal it or not, in fact if he did he is all the more likely to make a scene protesting his innocence, Alan.
> 
> Edit: I faced a very similar situation in my business once. The loser wanted to accuse another customer of theft or better still for me to do it on his behalf. I declined to do so.


That's the way you see it. If someone came and asked me if I had seen someone take a table away from a nearby pitch. I certainly wouldnt take offence even if they mentioned that it looked a little like mine. As I am honest chap I have nothing to hide, so no reason to take offence. So it is not lose / lose situation as you put it.
Marching up and saying you want to inspect a table is going to cause offense and I wouldn't dream of it.

They may have taken they may not. However they may have made a mistake. That is the skill and tact of someone who runs a successful campsite, something this paticular was not. Showing little interest in helping out may have given the OP some confidence that they were trying. Even if it is only to show them where a nearby camping shop is so they can get a replacement.


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## erneboy

OK, thanks. So if they said they had seen nothing that would be the end of the conversation on that topic I assume, Alan.


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## Bill_H

erneboy said:


> Please tell me how you could ask without those concerned thinking you are calling them thieves? Alan.


From the thrust of your original post, I thought you were calling them thieves (..the coincidence was too much...)
I fail to see why you just didn't ask them.
What would you have done if you had seen them walking off with it?

Would not the answer for the future be to carry a sign on a spike to place on your pitch when you are away. 'This pitch is occupied' or 'please do not remove equipment from this pitch'
I didn't know that there is an unwritten rule which infers that any equipment left on a site means your coming back later to claim a spot, I'd just assume you had forgotten it or dumped it.


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## erneboy

Leaving stuff to indicate that you are coming back is recognised everywhere we have been by experienced campers but perhaps not by new comers. 

We once had a doormat taken from a pitch while we were away shopping, there was one the same nearby but it was a common item. I didn't see how I could ask.

I have asked repeatedly exactly what those who would have a word would say. I think it's telling that no-one has felt able to answer, Alan.


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## ThingyFromWales

The very best 'pitch-marker'?

A pop-up tent...you can even put your table in it for safe-keeping! 

:lol: 
Debs


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## peribro

If the suspected "thieves" didn't look too ugly then I might chance an "Excuse me - you didn't happen to find that table did you? I left it here earlier today." Otherwise I would wait until the early hours of the morning and attempt to nick it back. Obvious risk with that strategy is that it turns out not to be yours and you get caught nicking someone else's table!


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## Grizzly

erneboy said:


> Leaving stuff to indicate that you are coming back is recognised everywhere we have been by experienced campers but perhaps not by new comers.
> 
> .


There is- as the OP says an "unwritten rule". Things are left on pitches all over the world to indicate the occupier has gone out for the day. New comers surely latch on to this very quickly indeed and, anyone who takes anything is guilty of theft with no possible defence of ignorance.

If a site owner notices that something has been, unmoved, on a pitch for days then he is entitled to think it might have been abandoned but he must be the one to move it, not another camper.

G


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## erneboy

I agree Grizzly. Bill_H says he didn't know that so I thought I would confirm it for him, Alan.


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## Ozzyjohn

Alan,



erneboy said:


> Leaving stuff to indicate that you are coming back is recognised everywhere we have been by experienced campers but perhaps not by new comers.


Agreed, a very good point.



erneboy said:


> I have asked repeatedly exactly what those who would have a word would say. I think it's telling that no-one has felt able to answer, Alan.


To some extent, HeatherChloe gave an answer to this question - albeit before you asked it on page 2 of this thread. 


HeatherChloe said:


> Other ways could have involved popping over to their and other tents and say "oh watch out if you leave your site, as there's a thief about - we've had our table stolen" and then engage the people in a general chit chat.
> 
> If you did that with a few people first, then went to the one with the table, you could do the same, and say "oh we've warned a few people" and then you could go "oh gosh, it's just like that one, actually. We're going to go and buy a new one just the same - but we got ours at a show and I don't know where the stockist are. Do you know where we can buy one like this?" You'll have known immediately if they had stolen yours or not.


Personally, I would have shied away from the use of the word "stolen" - probably favouring the less emotive "gone missing". Otherwise it seems like a reasonable approach.

Regards,
John


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## BillCreer

Grizzly said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving stuff to indicate that you are coming back is recognised everywhere we have been by experienced campers but perhaps not by new comers.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> There is- as the OP says an "unwritten rule". Things are left on pitches all over the world to indicate the occupier has gone out for the day. New comers surely latch on to this very quickly indeed and, anyone who takes anything is guilty of theft with no possible defence of ignorance.
> 
> If a site owner notices that something has been, unmoved, on a pitch for days then he is entitled to think it might have been abandoned but he must be the one to move it, not another camper.
> 
> G
Click to expand...

That's in your own little Motorhoming world.

Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts.


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## Grizzly

BillCreer said:


> That's in your own little Motorhoming world.


No Bill...it's in the real world. It's gained from long experience over 50 years of tenting, caravanning and motorhoming all over the world. It's gained from a moral code that leads me to believe that finders is not keepers. It's the same moral code that would lead me to go to the site owner if I saw anything left on a site overnight with no owner in evidence. I would not take it and there are, thankfully, more people like me camping than those who would simply take it and keep it.



> Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts.


And your explanation for the loss of the table is - ?

G


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## camper69

BillCreer said:


> That's in your own little Motorhoming world.
> 
> Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts.


If you take something from a pitch (that is not yours) its theft in any world.

Derek


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## iandsm

*Rules*

I would have thought there is only one unwritten rule. "If you don't want it nicked, don't leave it out"

I would never leave anything of any value on a pitch unattended. If I took a chance and did so with the result it was taken, I would be annoyed as was the OP. However, mostly at myself for not putting the item away. I see it as my responsibility to look after my own property, not a site owner or anyone else.

As to leaving early and wanting a refund, I think the OP was lucky to get one. He left of his own accord through no fault of the site owner.

Although I agree that the taking of an unattended item from a pitch is a pretty low thing to do. I cannot help think that the OP is the author of his own misfortune. Had the item been put away, he would not now feel bitter about the campers or the site owner/staff he would have had much better memories of the trip.

Unwritten rules tend only to apply to those who think they exist. Trouble is others don't know about them or obey them.


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## spatz1

And the moral of the story ...

dont judge people by your own standards !

(its hardly suprising to share a campsite with the odd thief or two as they re everywhere now a days !)

And is it not like leaving a towel on a deckchair in turning up with a reserved sign and expecting to stay on the pitch (you deem to be the best in chosing it) for as long as you stay there ...

I m all for "musical pitches" as people come and go on a daily basis !!!!


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## NeilandDebs

*Unwritten rule*

Just read this and cannot believe it.
Firstly it is not the campsites fault that your table was stolen. You left it out so it is your own fault.
Secondly you choose to leave a day early. Why on earth should the campsite give you a refund! That pitch would most likely stay empty for that night as at this time of the year most people stay for more than one night. Therefore the campsite lose out.

It is like paying for a 3 course dinner and only eating 2 courses you would not expect a refund then!

Neil


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## Grizzly

Taking something that you know is not yours is theft. Period.

How soon do we get to the stage where we have to stow the caravan or motorhome awning contents in the van or put the items in our tent into the car before we leave a site for a day ? 

You can't make excuses for theft by saying that the owner should have looked after something more carefully ! Theft is theft and the people who commit theft are thieves. 

It has always gone on since time began and there is little evidence that the number of thefts is increasing but it must not be condoned or excused. 

G


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## iandsm

*Theft*

I don't think there are any excuses for theft and I am not sure I see anyone making excuses. However does leaving things in full view unattended not facilitate theft. That of course does not excuse it, but we don't leave our cars, motorhomes or houses unlocked, that's because securing them seems a sensible precaution. Why put temptation in the path of others.

That is a reflection on society as it is today.


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## BillCreer

Grizzly said:


> BillCreer said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's in your own little Motorhoming world.
> 
> 
> 
> No Bill...it's in the real world. It's gained from long experience over 50 years of tenting, caravaning and motorhoming all over the world. It's gained from a moral code that leads me to believe that finders is not keepers. It's the same moral code that would lead me to go to the site owner if I saw anything left on a site overnight with no owner in evidence. I would not take it and there are, thankfully, more people like me camping than those who would simply take it and keep it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your explanation for the loss of the table is - ?
> 
> G
Click to expand...

Hi G,

Thought that might wind you up. Sorry.

I have the same history of campsites as you.
A few years ago we returned to our tent on a campsite in the South of France and our table and chairs had gone.
My wife made tea for the kids and we ate it on rug in front of the tent and put it down to experience.
A couple of hours later I went for a walk, with the kids, in the woods a couple of hundred yard from the tent. Guess what I found..... A collection of upturned tables and chairs and not only mine.
Apparently there had been a mini hurricane through the site when we were away.

There are a million explanations for where the table went.


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## Grizzly

BillCreer said:


> [
> 
> Thought that might wind you up. Sorry.
> 
> .


It didn't wind me up Bill; I enjoy a discussion as much as the next woman but I don't get wound up by them !

A _ million _ explanations...... ????!!

G


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## BillCreer

Grizzly said:


> BillCreer said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Thought that might wind you up. Sorry.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't wind me up Bill; I enjoy a discussion as much as the next woman but I don't get wound up by them !
> 
> A _ million _ explanations...... ????!!
> 
> G
Click to expand...

Sorry I can't explain it but I'm not determined to see a thief......

Have a nice day.


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## The-Cookies

we leave stuff on the pitch , but it is all marked well so i could identify if the item was mine or not, i know i shouldn't have to but there is always going to be someone who will take things if the opportunity arises.


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## rogerblack

camper69 said:


> If you take something from a pitch (that is not yours) its theft in any world. Derek


OK guv, it's a fair cop. As a result of lifting that broken portable barbeque that I found abandoned in the corner of our pitch on a site in France and brought back to Blighty in the (futile as it transpired) hope of repairing, I guess Interpol will be waiting for me on our next trip. 

Touch wood, have never yet had anything pinched on sites here or abroad. We do sometimes leave tables & chairs under the 'van overnight but not when we leave the pitch, apart from sometimes the rear doormat to help us relocate exactly in the same level spot. 
We do have a couple of 'Pitch Reserved for Motorhome' markers which didn't stop a Dutch couple moving onto our (sunny!) pitch on a site in France. My glaring at them from the opposite (shady) pitch for the rest of the day ensured that they stayed inside their 'van and didn't benefit from the sun anyway. 8) :lol:


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## aldra

We've never lost anything although we probably deserve to have had as we leave chairs, tables and BBQ out almost every night

Also leave table and chairs to mark the pitch if we go out

I would have thought the electric hookup was possibly more valuable than a table

we leave that as well  

My son once had an expensive baby pushchair stolen on a campsite(in England), which I felt was really low

Must try to be more aware, did notice how everyone else put everything away and promise to do likewise-soon - I think 8O

Aldra


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## BillCreer

rogerblack said:


> camper69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you take something from a pitch (that is not yours) its theft in any world. Derek
> 
> 
> 
> OK guv, it's a fair cop. As a result of lifting that broken portable barbeque that I found abandoned in the corner of our pitch on a site in France and brought back to Blighty in the (futile as it transpired) hope of repairing, I guess Interpol will be waiting for me on our next trip.
> 
> Touch wood, have never yet had anything pinched on sites here or abroad. We do sometimes leave tables & chairs under the 'van overnight but not when we leave the pitch, apart from sometimes the rear doormat to help us relocate exactly in the same level spot.
> We do have a couple of 'Pitch Reserved for Motorhome' markers which didn't stop a Dutch couple moving onto our (sunny!) pitch on a site in France. My glaring at them from the opposite (shady) pitch for the rest of the day ensured that they stayed inside their 'van and didn't benefit from the sun anyway. 8) :lol:
Click to expand...

I've said it before Roger, you're just a bad man.

I'll try and dig out the location of that campsite in France, that has the mini hurricanes, for you.


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## erneboy

BillCreer your message to me said, 

"That's in your own little Motorhoming world. 

Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts."


Bill I said no such thing, I suggest you read my posts again. From start to finish I have been saying that the subject would be difficult to bring up in conversation without seeming to accuse possibly innocent people.

You have entirely misunderstood and your comment, "That's in your own little Motorhoming world" seems unnecessary and nasty to me, Alan.


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## BillCreer

erneboy said:


> BillCreer your message to me said,
> 
> "That's in your own little Motorhoming world.
> 
> Please don't be so quick to condemn people as thieves when you don't know all the facts."
> 
> Bill I said no such thing, I suggest you read my posts again. From start to finish I have been saying that the subject would be difficult to bring up in conversation without seeming to accuse possibly innocent people.
> 
> You have entirely misunderstood and your comment, "That's in your own little Motorhoming world" seems unnecessary and nasty to me, Alan.


Erneboy,

If it was intended for you then I would agree with you.

You've pressed the wrong "Expand"


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## erneboy

Bill,why quote me if you are not addressing my comments? Alan.


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## 1302

I have left our pitch with two chairs padlocked together AND our 'pitch reserved' sign. If I came back to find tenters sat on my chairs when I came back I'd hoof them out and reclaim my chairs for sure. On that basis I wouldnt need to be asking the site manager for a refund - more likely be asking them to ring an ambulance for the chair theiving scrotes


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## BillCreer

erneboy said:


> Bill,why quote me if you are not addressing my comments? Alan.


Alan,

I didn't quote you. It was part of Grizzlies posting and I was replying to that.

If I took your comments out of her posting I might have been accused of selective editing.


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## erneboy

Bill I take your word that your comments were not addressed to me but it looks as though they were because your post quoted mine.

You can hardly be surprised that I took exception to your reply when it appeared, in part, to be aimed me. Had you wanted to quote only what Grizzly said you could have done so using copy and paste thus avoiding avoided confusion. 

I have found that when I err a timely "Oops sorry" often does the trick, Alan.


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## BillCreer

erneboy said:


> Bill I take your word that your comments were not addressed to me but it looks as though they were because your post quoted mine.
> 
> You can hardly be surprised that I took exception to your reply when it appeared, in part, to be aimed me. Had you wanted to quote only what Grizzly said you could have done so using copy and paste thus avoiding avoided confusion.
> 
> I have found that when I err a timely "Oops sorry" often does the trick, Alan.


Hi Alan,

My post did not Quote you it Quoted Grizzly. Unfortunately for you her post was quoting you.

Your apology is accepted.


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## Grizzly

erneboy said:


> .
> 
> Had you wanted to quote only what Grizzly said you could have done so using copy and paste thus avoiding avoided confusion.
> 
> .


He could also have used quotes properly, Alan, by putting in a little coding...the odd few square brackets and back slashes make all the difference. I've given him the benefit of the doubt and assumed ignorance rather than malice.

G


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## BillCreer

Grizzly said:


> erneboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Had you wanted to quote only what Grizzly said you could have done so using copy and paste thus avoiding avoided confusion.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> He could also have used quotes properly, Alan, by putting in a little coding...the odd few square brackets and back slashes make all the difference. I've given him the benefit of the doubt and assumed ignorance rather than malice.
> 
> G
Click to expand...

I don't think the ignorance is on my part.

If you decide that the "quote" facility provided by the Forum is inadequate you should take it up with the Administrators.

Isn't calling another Forum Member "Ignorant" a reportable offence?


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## BillCreer

Alan,

Should I have edited your quote out of my last posting?


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## erneboy

Bill, you made an error and rather than admit to it you continue to compound it. If I were you I would should stop digging rather than trying to taunt me for a reaction which will not be forthcoming as I have your measure now, Alan.

Edit: The meaning of the word ignorant is clearly a mystery to you Bill.


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## peribro

I agree with Bill on this. If he had been quoting Alan's post, then Grizzly's wouldn't have appeared as well. When I read his post earlier this evening it was apparent to me that it was Grizzly's that he was quoting. So saying, when I first starting reading posts on MHF, it took me a little while to appreciate that the quoted post was always the one on top if it included a quoted post itself. I think it would have been wrong of Bill to have edited Alan's post out of Grizzly's as he was quoting Grizzly's post including any posts quoted within that.


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## BillCreer

peribro said:


> I agree with Bill on this. If he had been quoting Alan's post, then Grizzly's wouldn't have appeared as well. When I read his post earlier this evening it was apparent to me that it was Grizzly's that he was quoting. So saying, when I first starting reading posts on MHF, it took me a little while to appreciate that the quoted post was always the one on top if it included a quoted post itself. I think it would have been wrong of Bill to have edited Alan's post out of Grizzly's as he was quoting Grizzly's post including any posts quoted within that.


Thanks Peribro for a voice of reason.

There are times when one starts to doubt ones self, although this wasn't one of them.

Having other members joining in with unhelpful comments doesn't solve issues for anyone.(not you)

(hope you don't mind me quoting you)

Alan,

You were making a good point in your origional posting and I was trying to support that point.


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## Grizzly

BillCreer said:


> Isn't calling another Forum Member "Ignorant" a reportable offence?


I didn't call you ignorant Bill !

I assumed that- and I think rightly- you had failed to edit out Ray's quote when you used mine in order to emphasise your reply. It would have been clearer to remove Ray's quote altogether to avoid the inevitable misunderstanding.

I put this failure to edit down to an ignorance ( ie a lack of knowledge) of the methods of selecting quotes. This can be done other than by simple selection and, if done by coding , is more accurate.

Please do report me if that is your wish but, in a robust debate, you must expect a robust response.

G


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## erneboy

Bill, did you think another sarcastic jibe would help? Alan.


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## BillCreer

Grizzly said:


> BillCreer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't calling another Forum Member "Ignorant" a reportable offence?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't call you ignorant Bill !
> 
> I assumed that- and I think rightly- you had failed to edit out Ray's quote when you used mine in order to emphasise your reply. It would have been clearer to remove Ray's quote altogether to avoid the inevitable misunderstanding.
> 
> I put this failure to edit down to an ignorance ( ie a lack of knowledge) of the methods of selecting quotes. This can be done other than by simple selection and, if done by coding , is more accurate.
> 
> Please do report me if that is your wish but, in a robust debate, you must expect a robust response.
> 
> G
Click to expand...

Grizzly,

I worked in the IT Industry for most of my working life and one of the golden rules is that you don't cut and paste / edit / quote a portion of a persons document and place it in your document out of context.

It is highly unprofessional.

I was trying to explain this to Alan when you butted in.

Alan now seems to have taken his ball in and sees everything I say as deliberate provocation.

Alan, I can assure you that I'm not trying to provoke you and I can only assume you are having feelings of mirrored aggression don't go there it's unhealthy.


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## nukeadmin

ok, ok

just seen this firstly I don't mind anyone saying negative (or positive things) about companies / campsites alike as long as its factual and relatively none emotional (saves me wading through legal letters asking for user profile info in the long run  )

secondly I used to be a Fowey resident myself back in the mid 80s for 2 years so I know the area well but obviously never stayed on the site apart from the one time when i spent a weekend there visiting with family in our van and met up with our very own Eddievanbitz and his wife Lyn and Bradley (the Lab) and Saber (The GSD) had a great time together.

finally lets not get torn up about a few misunderstandings on the thread and start personal attacks (which is the direction it seems to be heading in) there have been some very interesting aspects of this threads and points raised and so lets get back on that topic


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## erneboy

Cutting and pasting the whole thing is fine Bill.

I will ignore the attempt to bait yet again, Alan.


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## BillCreer

erneboy said:


> Cutting and pasting the whole thing is fine Bill.
> 
> I will ignore the attempt to bait yet again, Alan.


I know Alan.

Me too.


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## HeatherChloe

aldra said:


> We've never lost anything although we probably deserve to have had as we leave chairs, tables and BBQ out almost every night Also leave table and chairs to mark the pitch if we go out


I was on a pitch this weekend. I planned to go out leaving the table and chair (not chairs, as it was only me).

Then I remembered this post, and I thought twice.

So I packed everything away.

I felt a bit sad about doing that, actually. :-(

But I suppose better safe than sorry.


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## eddievanbitz

I started reading this thread and thought " I wonder of that is the place that we went with Nuke and his family? And low and behold it was.

The site is well run and the people were very friendly to be fair.

There are loads of complaints on MHF about lack of pitches, and it is getting worse. With so many sites swapping over to statics, lodges and pods sites are getting harder to get onto. A furhter cause of this problem is that people will book several sites over several days thinking that this gives them flexibility. 

This of course it does at huge cost to every one else.

As a campsite owner, we are often faced with people asking to change their bookings. We have ended up asking for payment up front for busy periods. If people object to this, we simply say that they can still arrive, but we cannot guarantee a pitch. Most understand this, some cannot and get angry. 

People get very upset when they are already on site, and ask to stay on for a few days, and you cannot accomodate them. Imagine the annoyance of refusing a request for a few more days, as you have some one arriving to use that pitch, later that day, only to realise that the person doesn't turn up. When the office rings them there is always and embarressed excuse.

This in turn could lead to people booking five nights, when they think that they only want three, but may want to stay on, only to get ticky when they decide to leave early, and expect a refund for the extra nights. 

The fact that the campsite could have been turning people away thus inconveniencing other campers and the campsite doesn't seem to matter.

However, our wardens at cornish farm try to use their noddle and will happily offer a refund for genuine reasons.

As for theft of a table? who knows, as already suggested mark your property and these things are avoided. However a word of warning!

A very close friend for many years is a guy called Jeff. His children and mine have grown up together and we have always made them do "Jobs" The most common was to get the hoses out and fill the vans. Sometimes due to the location of taps we would need our hoses and Jeffs, all connected.

I got fed up with the kids always putting the wrong water fixings back in the box, only to have to have no way of using the hoses a couple of weeks later as Jeff had all the male connectors and I had all the female.

I suggested over a beer that we could simply mark all our hozelok connectors so the kids would easily be able to work out what to put into each van!

The next time we were away, the kids were asked to fill the tanks and I was pleased to see that my idea of painstakingly marking every adapter had been successful. Every single connector was marked with a "J" 

"J" for Jones and Jeff had marked all of his with a "J" for Jeff :lol: 

I now mark things with the registration number! Hard to argue with that.

Eddie :wink:


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## hampsterracing

eddievanbitz said:


> The next time we were away, the kids were asked to fill the tanks and I was pleased to see that my idea of painstakingly marking every adapter had been successful. Every single connector was marked with a "J"
> 
> "J" for Jones and Jeff had marked all of his with a "J" for Jeff :lol:
> 
> I now mark things with the registration number! Hard to argue with that.
> 
> Eddie :wink:


Quality 

roger


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## jimmyd0g

Eddie,

Thanks for your reply & giving the site owners' point of view. 
One thing I would like to take further - the issue of marking property. I don't know if you have read the whole thread, but marking or personalising items has been mentioned at least a couple of times. Can you please tell me what good it would have done in the circumstances described? Were we, a couple of middle-aged types, or the site staff to approach an all-male party & politely ask to look at the table to see if it was ours & they were the thieves? I know how I would have reacted (& I'm very mild mannered most of the time) if I had been asked to prove a piece of kit was mine & that I hadn't stolen it. As Mrs j. said to me in discussion at the time, if we had challenged the other party, whether they were innocent or guilty, _we_ would have had to leave the site immediately. Thus, to my mind, marking items is only useful after the police make a recovery of stolen property - not to challenge a group of people who, let's not forget, may well have been innocent of any crime.


----------



## eddievanbitz

jimmyd0g said:


> Eddie,
> 
> Thanks for your reply & giving the site owners' point of view.
> One thing I would like to take further - the issue of marking property. I don't know if you have read the whole thread, but marking or personalising items has been mentioned at least a couple of times. Can you please tell me what good it would have done in the circumstances described? Were we, a couple of middle-aged types, or the site staff to approach an all-male party & politely ask to look at the table to see if it was ours & they were the thieves? I know how I would have reacted (& I'm very mild mannered most of the time) if I had been asked to prove a piece of kit was mine & that I hadn't stolen it. As Mrs j. said to me in discussion at the time, if we had challenged the other party, whether they were innocent or guilty, _we_ would have had to leave the site immediately. Thus, to my mind, marking items is only useful after the police make a recovery of stolen property - not to challenge a group of people who, let's not forget, may well have been innocent of any crime.


I would simply have said " It appears that my table is the same as yours, and mine has been nicked can I have a peek at underneath to make sure that there hasn't been a mix up, before I phone the Police.

Having said all of this I have never understood the paranoia of insisting that I keep my pitch? If I am off during the day out and about does it matter if I am in a different place when I return?

At Cornish Farm our pitches are all marked and we have a computerised booking system so in theory double pitching doesn't happen.

Personally I would never bother leaving stuff all over a pitch, just to make sure no one else parks there

Eddie


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## aldra

I suppose that would depend how you marked it

The registration number in clear view across tables and chairs would help
to identify them in circumstances of being in use

Its sad though to have to do that

Aldra


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## HeatherChloe

eddievanbitz said:


> I would simply have said " It appears that my table is the same as yours, and mine has been nicked can I have a peek at underneath to make sure that there hasn't been a mix up, before I phone the Police.


Very sensible.

Or, if you are unable to do that, wait till they go out, go into their awning, and have a look at the thing.

Then, if it's yours, just take it back!


----------

