# How do we stand after we sold it???????



## suedi_55 (Aug 8, 2006)

We have just sold our van but are now having problems with the buyer.
I will explain the situation and if anyone has any thoughts please let me know.

We were at a bootsale at our stall, and I put a FOR SALE notice in the windscreen, just to see what interest we would get.
On the advert all I put was "FOR SALE. INCLUDES AWNING AND PORTA POTTY"
We had a couple ask if they could look around, which they did.
At no point did we say anything else was included in the price.
They then offered us a price (£250 less than the asking price) and we agreed.
We never heard no more until the following week when he turned up to ask if we were still selling it and gave us a deposit.
They then asked if we would throw in the TV, and being the generous type that we are, we agreed
There were 2 empty gas bottles in the van at the time, along with other bits like the hook up lead, steps etc.

The van was due for the MOT, so we arranged that we would get the MOT done, and they could pick the van up as soon as we had got it back.

As it happened the van failed (which we new would happen, as it needed the exhaust refitted as it had recently dropped down because of a broken bracket).

We picked the van up at 5pm with the new MOT and the couple came and payed cash for it at 6pm
I had taken out one of the gas bottles as it belonged to my dad!
I also took out the hook up lead as we had bought that when we bought the van as there was not one.
We left them one of the bottles of which we had refilled!

The following day we got a phone call from them complaining that there was only 1 bottle and not the 2 they saw.
We told them it was my dads and that we were giving them the other one full up. They then demanded that we get them another empty bottle to replace my dads!!! (we said no)

Now, this evening, we get another phone call from them, demanding their money back as the hook up lead was missing, the cigarette lighter doesnt work, and the exhaust is blowing!!!!!
He was very rude and threatening!
We refused to give him his money back as he had the new MOT certificate to prove it was done. He then says we got a dodgy MOT done and is going to "take it to the ministry"

How do we stand? Who is in the wrong?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Sue and Ian.


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## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

if you.ve tried reasoning with them and feel there,s no compromise then dont worry private sale and your not trade so they dont have leg to stand on, i am trade and some people just like to whinge afterwards to try and get a bit back. offer them a empty gas bottle,


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## BlackScorpion (Apr 30, 2008)

For peace of mind book an appointment with a solicitor. I know they have an expensive history, but, they will be able to tell you how you officially stand, and it helps for a good nights sleep ,without worrying about a disagreeable buyer. Perhaps you should have taken out anything that you hadn't included in the sale, but that is in hindsight.


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## suedi_55 (Aug 8, 2006)

We did think about letting them have a bottle if we could find one, but they are not cheap!!. But once we give in to them, how much more will they expect from us? I had also replaced some of the curtains as a good will gesture as they looked nicer than the originals, which cost me a bit!!
So all in all, at the moment they have had nearly £500 worth of 
discount and extras not advertised. 
Is it law that we HAVE to supply gas and hook up leads with the sale of a motorhome?
I have noticed that most a lot of adverts do include extras, but we did not advertise it as such.

Sue and Ian.


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

*seling van*

Sue Ian,

I would tell them to get stuffed 

You sold them the van as seen,with awning and porta potty, you then gave them a tv and a full gas bottle, plus you had the van MOTd.

It sounds to me that the buyer is a chancer and will never be happy,if you give in to his demands next week he will be moaning that the water bottle is empty, or the spare wheel is flat.

Take care Les


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

suedi_55 said:


> We have just sold our van but are now having problems with the buyer.
> I will explain the situation and if anyone has any thoughts please let me know.
> 
> We were at a bootsale at our stall, and I put a FOR SALE notice in the windscreen, just to see what interest we would get.
> ...


I wouldn't worry about it - a private sale carries no liability as long as it wasn't deliberately misrepresented in some way - such as the mileage being 'clocked'. The cig lighter was missing when the buyer bought the van and the spare gas cylinder was never offered as part of the deal in common with other personal property that may or may not have been present at the time. The MoT - dodgy or not (and I'm sure it wasn't) - is not your problem and should the buyer carry out his threat and report it to the ministry you will not hear anything about it - they will ask the garage for an explanation, not you.

It sounds to me that you've been very fair and generous from the start.

Don't give it another thought and certainly don't lose any sleep over it.


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## georgiemac (Oct 22, 2007)

tell them I have an empty gas bottle they can have - all they have to do is pick it up from Southport. bloomin' cheek


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## suedi_55 (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks guys for your support. And on that note we are off to bed to get a good nights sleep!!!!  

Sue and Ian.


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

suedi_55 said:


> We did think about letting them have a bottle if we could find one, but they are not cheap!!. But once we give in to them, how much more will they expect from us? I had also replaced some of the curtains as a good will gesture as they looked nicer than the originals, which cost me a bit!!
> So all in all, at the moment they have had nearly £500 worth of
> discount and extras not advertised.
> Is it law that we HAVE to supply gas and hook up leads with the sale of a motorhome?
> ...


Don't even think about giving them another bottle - it could be taken as admitting liability. And 'no', it is most certainly NOT law that you have to supply gas and hook-up leads with the sale of any motorhome. In fact, even most new motorhomes don't come with them - especially gas.


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## Avante524 (Sep 7, 2008)

Hello 

Cheeky G*t!, do not give them anything, it looks as though you have already been really generous with the sale, gas bottle and cig lighter today then tomorrow they will be on the phone wanting something else, just explain that some dealers wouldn't give them gas and a hook up cable no matter how much they paid for the MH.

Cheers.  still smiling.


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## LazyRover (Apr 13, 2008)

Sorry, I have to disagree with other posters.

When you put the van up for sale at the bootsale, anyone looking the van over could expect it to be sold "as seen" including any accessories remaining therein.

When the deal was done, unless you explicitly stated that ONE OR MORE gas bottles were not included then they were part of the deal. (If not, why did you not remove both bottles). Same with the lead.

As to the cigarette lighter and blowing exhaust, "Caveat Emptor".

In conclusion, I believe you should hand over, or reimburse for, the gas bottle and lead but nothing else.

[Edit]

You could always argue that the details of the (verbal) contract vary substantially from what either party believed they had negotiated for. As such, the contract should be voided.

In this case, you would take back the van and refund the monies paid.


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## wilse (Aug 10, 2007)

I believe you can get a free 30 mins or possibly and hour with most solicitors... if you are worried... book one in your name... and one in your partners[different solicitor] then you can fire all your questions and it won't cost you.

Personally If I saw two cylinders that's what I'd expect.... BUT when I would hand over the money I would question it there and then. They had their opportunity to question it at the hand over pont but didn't... like other said... tell them to get stuffed!... or just don't answer the phone.

If you also gave them some freebies.. say to him you'll have those back... and you'll give him the gas bottle & lead.

Bloody tight wads!

hth

w


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## bob44 (Mar 9, 2006)

Hi Sue & Ian,

Cash Sale - As this person has given you so much grief I do hope that you have carefully checked all of the £/various notes. 

Were they ALL there? Were they ALL Kosher?

(Hope so, but if any of them WERE forged maybe you could have them for passing counterfeit money?)


Bob L


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## 118130 (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm not sure how true this is, but when I bought my caravan and then MH from my dealer I was told they are strickly not allowed to throw gas bottles in with the sale of a unit (I tried to get them for free!), these have to be purchased under a seperate contract. Strictly speaking there may also be an issue with you reselling gas (or even the bottle if it's on deposit). I'm sure any deallers reading this may be able to shed some light or was I spun a yarn :?: :roll:

Make up a 0.5m hookup lead and give 'em that :lol: :lol:


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

LazyRover said:


> When you put the van up for sale at the bootsale, anyone looking the van over could expect it to be sold "as seen" including any accessories remaining therein.
> .


I don't agree. When you sell a house it is not expected that everything in the house goes with the sale and you have to fill in a form stating what is included in the sale.

Sue and Ian put up a notice saying the porta potti and awning were included and it is reasonable to assume that things like curtains and upholstery are included but everything else- gas bottles, hook up leads etc is by negotiation not right.

Make sure you keep a full record of everything you say to them and vice versa including times and dates. Have you tried Citizen's Advice or your van insurance company ? They usually have a telephone advice line.

G


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Half an hour with a solicitor is free. Settles your mind and wil give some reassurance.If they keep pestering you it may be deemed as harassment.

Dave P


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Initially they could have expected what was in the van but they did not buy it at that time but later when different things were in it. 
The sale of goods act does not apply, you sold them as seen - that is it in my opinion.

DO NOT give them anything else - it is the thin edge.

Gas bottles remain the property of Calor Gas and should be returned to them (read their small print). So you could not let them have one now. They have to source that (suggest they try local recycling depot - usually available for £5 round here!).

Solicitor advice very useful - be prepared to quote them on that.

They could also face problems for harassing you - that could involve police.

EHU lead not part of basic van unless agreed at time of sale.

Persevere and do not give in. 

Good luck.

Dave


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## Autoquest (May 16, 2007)

For what it's worth I always type out a simple bill of sale and get all parties to sign it, they keep a copy, you keep the original.

So & So has purchased vehicle for ££££
So & So assumes responsibility for said vehicle as of Time & Date
Sold as seen at time of purchase with no further responsibilty attributable tp previous owner

Then file it away and keep it.


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## Superk (Aug 22, 2005)

I don't think either of you are in the wrong but think could be a problem on assumptions. Maybe this is the first time the purchaser has bought a motorhome and wouldn't have the knowledge that many have on this forum. Even if not I think he could think he's been misled.

So he sees the for sale sign has a look round, likes what he sees and naturally assumes that what he sees is included in the sale since nothing is said to the contrary. 

When he came round the second time the gas bottles were still in the van along with the hook up lead and again he wasn't told that part of what he was seeing wasn't included in the sale.

Because the 'For Sale' said 'Includes Awning and Porta Potti' doesn't mean everything else was excluded. He could have taken those as features like on car - has air con and go faster stripes.

He could argue that the motorhome wasn't fit for purpose if it didn't have a hook up lead (I take the point about new vans but would say that was ridiculous as well.)

With hindsight if you intended to keep certain items back that should have been made clear either verbally or preferably in a written Bill of Sale.

I think he may feel he's been misled, has got buyer's remorse and is now worried what else he's been deceived on.

On the other hand he could be a chancer. Nothing like having things in writing and signed off.

 
Keith


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## LazyRover (Apr 13, 2008)

Grizzly said:


> LazyRover said:
> 
> 
> > When you put the van up for sale at the bootsale, anyone looking the van over could expect it to be sold "as seen" including any accessories remaining therein.
> ...


I'm still not convinced.

Twice the purchasers looked over the van and twice the vendors failed to specifically exclude items from the sale either verbally or in writing. Under the circumstances, I believe that the purchaser thought that they were contracting for the vehicle and accessories they saw and that they have every right to enquire after the missing items (politely , of course).

As I said in my original (edited post) if there is a fundamental difference in what the parties thought they were contracting for, one might argue that the contract be voided. In which case, the van should be returned and the purchase price returned to the buyer.

As a mental exercise, I can see the merits in both sides of the argument.

If I remember correctly, it is for just these reason that contracts for the sale of property(bricks and mortar) are the only ones that are mandated to be in writing; they cannot be a verbal contract.

Practically, I believe the status quo will remain as it now is. It's certainly not worth either side wasting further monies involving legal services.


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## gnscloz (Oct 4, 2008)

LazyRover said:


> Grizzly said:
> 
> 
> > LazyRover said:
> ...


dont agree otherwise buyers would have expected tv too instead of asking them to leave it in, imho they are chancers


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## crimpleken (Jan 13, 2009)

*How do we stand*

There is a lesson to be learned here. Whenever you sell something like this always give a receipt stating that the goods are sold as seen with no warranty or guarantee offered. Always do a duplicate copy and get the buyer to sign your copy. You are then completely covered.
Crimpleken


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Dodgy MOT, that is slander against the Testing station who is nothing to do with you. (One of the reasons why we use an independent company for our MOT's)

Blowing exhaust? give him the receipt for the work done and tell him to take it back under warranty.

To be honest the gas bottle and hook up lead for what they cost, just give them one if they pursue the issue, its not worth the grief and agro in my book.

As to the rest, private sale, very minor issues.

Peter


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## delboy0127 (Mar 3, 2009)

Dear Sue and Ian,

I have recently retired from running my own Motor Sales business which included a very busy MOT testing station. Some 35 years of trading

I think I may be able to offer some very sound advice.

With regard to the MOT, any repair to an exhaust must be substantial, clearly if the couple who purchased the van advised that the exhaust was blowing, then clearly this was not the case, and in my opinion you should have the exhaust repaired at your cost. If you paid the garage to put the exhaust right for an Mot then I would speak to your MOT testing station with regard to the repair.

With regard to the gas bottles if their were 2 in the vehicle when you sold it to the couple, full or empty you must sell it with 2 bottles. That is a cut and dried case it is as simple as that. If you advised the couple you were going to remove 1 of the bottles then you can remove 1.

With regard to the electrical lead if the couple saw an electrical lead in the van, you must sell it with the van, as clearly it would be considered to be part of the van, if you told them you were removing the lead then you can remove it.

And finally if the couple are not happy, give them their money back and take your van back. This will prevent any further problems that may arise.

It is a private sale and as such the buyer does not have much protection.

But with regard to the exhaust repair and a new MOT that is questionable in my opinion.

I hope this may assist you

Take care

Delboy


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## suedi_55 (Aug 8, 2006)

I can see everyones point of view, but as I said, we were at a bootie and it should have been obvious to the interested party, that the van was in use on those days and would obviously have had to have some things still in it as we were using it, and it was not ready to "buy and go"
If it had been us buying the van, we would have asked what was included, which I think most would do.
If we had had the van parked up outside home, then we would have had it ready to go.
If they had offered to pay the full asking price, we might have considered adding the extras anyway.
They handed over the deposit very quickly when they turned up the second week as we were actually talking to another interested party at the time!!
He virtually threw the money in our hands and said "we want it. here is the deposit", without even asking anything.

As soon as we can get hold of the garage who did the MOT, we will warn them that there might be hassle from the buyers.
Cheeky sod tried to blame US for making up a false MOT document.
Bearing in mind, the garage is a stones throw away from our house, and the van was only driven from there to home and for a little drive with him at the wheel before purchase, it took him 3 days to ring us in a temper about the exhaust blowing. Surely no garage would pass a vehicle with a blowing exhaust, would they????????

Infact, actually, the van was purchased in her name and she handed over the monies when picking up, but it is him that is shouting!!
If he does ring again, we will say we will only comunicate with the purchaser!!!

Sue and Ian.


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## seanysean (Jun 3, 2009)

Its what is known as post purchase dissonance ie they've decided they shouldnt have bought it in the first place! Another phrase worth noting is 'caveat emptor': 'buyer beware. 
IMHO I would give them a gas cylinder and perhaps even a lead and then tell them to leave you alone and that they are welcome to bring your MOT to 'the ministry' They now own van, you have their money. End of story..


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Do NOT give anything whatsoever, If you do you are making an admission of liability, 95% of new units are sold with no bottles and no EHU lead if you do give in their demands will be never ending
Just to settle yourself go to a Citizens advice office where you will be given legal advice free.

about 9 years ago I sold a car that I had allowed a family member to use whilst being made redundant, after he found a job and bought himself a car I advertised the car for sale, After the buyer got the car he made various demands very similar to what yours is doing and threatened legal procedures, I sought legal advice and told him where to get off, He got a solicitor to write to me making numerous threats and I even had to appear in a small claims court where the case was thrown out as at no time did I make any statement as to inclusions, and curiously one of those was a cigar lighter, The magistrate stated that the buyer should have made these observations at time of purchase and requested they be included or repaired and any agreement was to be made in writing.

As for seeing things in the van when viewed and then you must include it with van, My reply would be that does that also include the clothes that were in the cupboards they looked in, Or the cooking utensils that were in at the time, or the photos of family members etc etc etc.

DO NOT give a thing, They may have succeeded in the past and so are trying again.


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

Without wishing to take sides, I have read this and all I can think of is, "That's why we went to a reputable dealer!"

But if it was me, it seems from the conflicting advice a solicitor is your next call!


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Just checked on legality of reselling gas cylinders, Basically you cannot, You sign an agreement when you purchase your first bottle or bottles of gas and this agreement basically states that the owners of the cylinder or cylinders are the suppliers and you only purchase the contents, You paid a price when you first purchased you bottle or bottles and this is for a license for the use of the gas bottles I am informed.

and remembering back that I believe is exactly what actually happens because when you go for a "refill" you do not get one you actually get your bottle swapped for a full one.


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## suedi_55 (Aug 8, 2006)

There is a cigarette lighter there, but he is saying that it doesnt work. He wants it for a sat nav.
We told him that it was working because (a) Ian smokes, and (b) we used our sat nav all the time. What makes our blood boil is that he called Ian "a bl...y liar" on the phone last night.
I`m definately not prepared to give him the other gas bottle nor the lead, to keep him quiet, as like I said, he never asked what was included at the time he viewed. If I do this, then, as one of you has mentioned, am I liable to give him everything else that was in the van? ie, pots and pans, crockery, cutlery, clothes, kettle we were using to make drinks with at the bootie?
There were also chairs, cd`s, ramps, chocks, flags, flagpole, stickers, frost/sun screen, clothes airer etc. Did he ask for any of those things? No. All he asked for was the blinking TV which I wish I never gave him urhhhhhhh!


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## LazyRover (Apr 13, 2008)

Hmm, 

Originally, I was prepared to give the guy the benefit of the doubt but now.....

Not to alarm, but does anyone else feel their warning bells going off?

May I suggest that, from this moment on, if/when he calls you again, that you make "contemporaneous" written notes recording dates and times and all that is said between you both.


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## timofleeds (Sep 12, 2006)

Give consumer direct a ring get number from google. They are the public contact for trading standards, tell them the truth about the situation and they will advise you of what you have or have not done correctly or incorrectly. I use them during the course of my business and have found them to be very fair.

Regards Tim


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## tinkering (Dec 8, 2007)

*van sale*

Sue Ian,

As I said before he is a chancer.

I have bought a few vans in my time and have never been able to receive a gas bottle with any of them , the gas bottle belongs to the hirer not the van, as has been pointed out we all, only hire the bottles, we do not own them.

You sold the van in good faith, they, it would appear have changed there minds despite having got a bargain (they could not give you the deposit quick enough).

Stick to your guns, tell then to get stuffed,(unless he is 20 stone and built like a brick s---t house :lol: )

Best of luck

Les :wink:


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## ShinyFiat (Jun 2, 2009)

Its buyer beware on a private sale, he has no comeback whatsoever.

tell them to get stuffed in a nice way.

if your dog was in the van would they expect to bet it aswell.


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Sue and Ian,

You have had some great advice from the members of MHF. I would like to add my bit.

I concur that you should not give them anything, but I also suggest that should they phone again, do not be rude, just tell them to put their case in writing. You cannot get into an argument on the phone or personally, this would only do you harm in the long run.

As to the bottles and EHU, you need to look at the industry. Nowhere are these products given for free and as such if they took you to court they would not have a leg to stand on. English law works on precedent and historical practice. As the Motorhome industry both private and business does not give these products away neither should you. The only time they would be given away would be when there was a great big sign advertising the fact.

Oh and whatever you do, don't get a solicitor, it will cost you more money that the value of the van.

Of course don't bother worrying about it.

Best regards

Chris


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

If these phone calls are aggressive or threatening, I personally would inform the Police. I know they wont particularly act on the information, but I would still want it documented and that could be useful if anything comes to court in the future.
I honestly dont think you have anything to worry about though.


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## delboy0127 (Mar 3, 2009)

Hi Sue & Ian

Further to my earlier comment, I assumed when you handed the gas bottles over that you also handed over the hire agreements, to the purchaser Calor gas will then transfer them into the new owners name.

With regard to the exhaust blowing the buyers have no right of complaint to the garage direct. They will have to lodge an appeal against the pass certificate that has been issued direct with the ministry this will cost them the full price of an Mot. That ruling by the ministry when they retest the whole of the vehicle in the presence of the garage, will be very useful evidence for either party depending on what the ministry find wrong with the vehicle if anything is found wrong at all.

My advice is still to give them their money back and bring the matter to a swift conclusion. As you say you had another purchaser after the van at the same time it appears that you may have no trouble selling it again.

To continue with the issue in my opinion would be very unwise, for all concerned.

Delboy


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## 125007 (Jun 24, 2009)

:roll: Don't worry, try this for size (from THEIR side)..."Let a purchaser beware, for he ought to be not ignorant of the nature of the property (goods) which he is buying from another party"....viz "Caveat emptor quia ignorare non debuit quod alienum emit". They have not one leg to stand on & if their behaviour alarms you, go immediately to the Police. Regards.....


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Well.
The only thing you can do is "Cry all the way to the bank", you have your money let them huff and puff they will soon run out of steam, it will cost them far more to try and get you to admit liability and after all it was bought as seen at the point of sale.

But!, its a bit i'm not here today and gone tomorrow, I'm here today and gone tonight, from their point of view. :roll:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

As has been said by Waleem, if the phone calls are escalating both in terms of quantity and in terms of content - i.e. they are abusive/swearing/shouty/threatening - and you are not inclined to give them a refund (and I would not), you should keep a written record containing dates, times and salient points of conversations from the buyer. If they reach the level where you feel harassed, alarmed or distressed, you can contact your county's Police force and tell them you would like assistance to stop harassing/alarming/distressing phone calls which you've told the caller to stop, but which are continuing. It may take a day or two before you receive a visit from an officer (or it can easily be the same day - depends on local workloads), and once you show them your record of what's been said and when, a statement from you will be recorded from the visiting officer, and the buyer will be visited & will receive a warning under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. He will also be told that if we wishes to continue the dispute, he should do so via a solicitor, and not direct with you.

If it then continues, he can - and will - be arrested under the Act (which provides that a person must be given the opportunity to stop their actions by way of the warning, so that they cannot maintain they did not know their conduct was harrassing etc.); he will then be interviewed, and a decision will be made made regarding disposal.

Dougie.


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## seanysean (Jun 3, 2009)

I may be being a bit of a devil's advocate here but some will take 'sold as seen' to include relevant items, ie leads, cylinders, cooker, cushions, ladder (not your dog). Some will use the most lame excuse to get a refund (who knows, they may have seen another van they prefer)

A few years a go I, against good advice, took a hardline on an issue such as this.It cost me not only time, money but also a lot of stress. It just was not worth it! These %$%£s will stray across your path once or twice in a lifetime. Just take my advice, walk on by...


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

delboy0127 said:


> Hi Sue & Ian
> 
> Further to my earlier comment, I assumed when you handed the gas bottles over that you also handed over the hire agreements, to the purchaser Calor gas will then transfer them into the new owners name.
> 
> Delboy


Not So, The agreement is Non transferrable, the reason being you are not a licensed reseller.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

MOT. The vehicle passed mot on a certain date, anything can happen after that date

On the gas bottles, tell them that you are in breach of your "hire agreement" and want the bottle you gave them back

Dave p


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## 118130 (Nov 11, 2008)

In a nutshell, based on what's been posted (in my opinion only as an analysis of the problem and not to be taken as any form of legal advice!):

The contract rests on the content of the express and implied terms at the time of (and prior) to formation of the contract. The express terms can then be broken down into those agreed in writing and those stated orally (oral terms carry just as much weight as written terms, evidentially they're just a little more tricky).

Express written terms terms include:
"INCLUDES AWNING AND PORTA POTTY"

Express oral terms include:
"It will come with a valid MOT"

Provided no express representation was made regarding the condition of the exhaust, then the expresss oral term regarding the MOT appears to be met.

An implied term: "prima facie ... is something so obvious that it goes without saying; so that, if … an officious bystander were to suggest some express provision for it ... they would testily suppress him with a common ‘Oh, of course’"

Implied terms are the crux of the issue here, i.e. is it reasonable that the following were implied terms:
1) will come with 2 gas bottles
2) will come with hook up lead
3) cigarette socket will be in working order
4) the exhaust will be in working order

Implied terms can also be include by looking at trade customs (obviously this is a private sale but may still have a bearing).

So regarding 1), there is the legality of passing on the gas bottle, also trade practice is likely to say these aren't passed on. For 2), again trade practice may say that these again aren't generally part of the sale, also the fact that there was no assumption the TV was included may indicate that the buyer was not expecting extras to be included. However, the buyer is going to argue that the hook-up lead is a necessary component of the motorhome and therefore goes without saying it would be included. 3) I think falls down to "buyer beware" if no representation was made as to the condition of the cigarette socket prior to agreement, same as for 4) (provided nothing was expressly stated as to the condition of the exhaust), the vehicle was sold with a valid MOT and no responsibilty can be taken for what happens from when the buyer collects the vehicle.

The other important note is that even if any of these points are shown to be "terms" then these terms must be a "condition" rather than a "warranty" in order for the buyer to request that the contract be essentially cancelled and a full refund given, a condition must be a term that goes to the very root of the contract or deprive the innocent party of substantially the whole benefit of the contract - I don't think that can be said about any of these potential breaches, which means the very most that could be claimed would be the cost of putting things right.

As has been said previously, keep a log of all calls, state your position calmly and clearly and if need be contact your local CAB who will put you in touch of a local solicitor who should give you an initial free consultation.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough, good luck


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

I think Bradderz is spot on legally

You posted up the for sale notice and exhibited it for sale

You did not set any exclusions, you could have done

anyone looking round and inspecting would see the two gas bottles and the lead. They must be included by implication

the cigar lighter and the exhaust are different they were there but not working properly, but not so as to make the vehicle unroadworthy. That is buyer beware

Give him his additional bottle and his lead and be done with it

Thaty is the limit of his claim

The fact that you voluntarily swapped curtains is wholy irrelevant. You have not performed yiour side of the bargain.

They can only sue for the costs of the bottle and lead in my opinion. so by giving those to them that is an end.

NB the non transferability is between you and the gas company. not the purchasers. You may not have signed up, can you prove you did. There is no restriction to stop thym claiming the bottle or the cost of replacement so give in gracefully. You should have made sure it was excluded.


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## IrishHomer (May 30, 2006)

Having read the posts above I am both shocked and amazed. Firstly, I would be outraged if I bought a motorhome and the EHU was not included. It is so essential nowadays. Secondly, I am also surprised that gas bottles cannot be transferred. Although I believe the legalities set out here are correct, surely it makes life very awkward if you cannot include gas bottles in a sale?

Having said this, I sympathise with you on your unfortunate luck in the buyer's manners but I think he was very aggrieved not to get both gas bottles and the EHU. THe other updating you did, curtains etc, obviously went unappreciated in the event. 

Your good name is at risk here so it might be worth a compromise. IH


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## carol (May 9, 2005)

IrishHomer said:


> Having read the posts above I am both shocked and amazed. Firstly, I would be outraged if I bought a motorhome and the EHU was not included. It is so essential nowadays.
> 
> Your good name is at risk here so it might be worth a compromise. IH


I can't agree about EHU - none of our motorhomes have come with one, we have had to buy.

When buying our Hymer in Germany the owner gave us one gas bottle to come home with as it would take us a few days to get home, but even our new Rapido, did not come with an EHU....

They are not necessary - we rarely use one..

My thoughts, I would just let them stew but do take notes and *did you actually get a written receipt, if so what did it say, or have I missed it in the thread? *

Carol


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## bigbazza (Mar 6, 2008)

I paid 33k for our motorhome last year and had to transfer my hook-up lead from my trade in as the one we were buying didn't have one.
I also transfered the gas bottle for the same reason :roll:


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## dannimac (Jun 8, 2008)

Maybe a slightly skew-whiff take on this but when I'm buying a second hand car privately, I don't assume I'm going to get the petrol amount that's in it when I see it, or the CDs, or the wee thing that hangs from the mirror. And when I'm looking round a house ,I don't assume I'll get all furnishings.

You are not obliged to provide these things and they've already driven a good bargain with the tv and the mot.

I'd tell them that's the end of your dealings. If they really want to go to court over a lead and a gas bottle, let them but I would say any solicitor worth their salt would tell them they've had their chips.

D


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

IrishHomer said:


> Having read the posts above I am both shocked and amazed. Firstly, I would be outraged if I bought a motorhome and the EHU was not included. It is so essential nowadays. Secondly, I am also surprised that gas bottles cannot be transferred. Although I believe the legalities set out here are correct, surely it makes life very awkward if you cannot include gas bottles in a sale?
> 
> Having said this, I sympathise with you on your unfortunate luck in the buyer's manners but I think he was very aggrieved not to get both gas bottles and the EHU. THe other updating you did, curtains etc, obviously went unappreciated in the event.
> 
> Your good name is at risk here so it might be worth a compromise. IH


Other than our current van, which was bought new, we have never received an EHU, nor have we ever felt we should. I don't know how you can be outraged. We have never received a gas bottle either. As far as I am concerned these are accessories, albeit essential. If I have paid for them myself after purchasing a van I would not pass them on to the next owner. When we sold our last van it was accepted that these items would not accompany the van.

Regards


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Dealing with the public Huh :lol: 

Eddie :wink:


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

eddievanbitz said:


> Dealing with the public Huh :lol:


It's people I have difficulty with, not the public. 

Dougie.


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