# [B]Loss of grip on 821 front wheels[/B]



## Burneyinn (Oct 27, 2006)

We have just returned back from a long earned holiday in Scotland in our 821i Elegance.
During our stay we made our way up a mountain road near the top I negotiated a upwards hairpin , got nearly round it when the the front os wheel started to spinning on the tarmac, losing all forward motion. 
What made it worse is that the handbrake would not hold the vehicle at all.
Sitting skywards with my foot on the brake and a 500 ft drop two meters behind me I engaged 1st gear and taking my foot of the brake hit the throttle, the wheel kept spinning , the traction control kicked in and I was ingulfed in smoke from one of the front tyres eventually inch by inch it pulled us away from the edge. I then changed my pants !!!!
This is not an experience I want to repeat. 

This vehicle has a tag axle. The grip from the rear tyres is great but you feel you are driving on ice on the front. If you pull over and a front wheel
touches any gravel, grass etc that wheel will spin even on light throttle. I now leave the traction control engaged all the time. 

We are off to France Ski-ing after Christmas and I am now really worried about the journey especially in the bad conditions, the fun of this motorhome is fast disappearing.

Has anybody else experienced any such problems? Is it because it's a tag axle and if so does it apply to any other tag axle motorhomes ?.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

I think it's just a question of having so much of the weight over the undriven wheels, and of course as you go uphill the centre of gravity moves further rearward. Add in a hairpin then it moves backwards and towards 1 corner leaving the opposite corner light hence the wheelspin. The longer the vehicle the bigger the problem.

I'm afraid these vehicles are not really designed for the purpose that most people want to put them to.


Andrew


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi sorry to hear about that,i think i would have cra**ed the pants there.
TBH there is NO grip on the rear axles on a Fiat chassis due to them being front wheel drive.Nothing to do with tag axles. Tags are only really fitted to up the payload.
Been there & done it but did not buy the tee shirt :wink: :wink: :wink: 
Best advice "NO uphill hairpins"   
Gary


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Grip*

Hi

I am no expert, but drive a tag axle motorhome and am more than familiar with tag axle coaches. The latter climed the Pordoi Pass in the Dolomites.

Would it be worth checking your axle weights? The info will be on the plate - I think it is under the bonnet on the 821. Is there a possibility you had a bit too much weight at the back, causing a see-saw effect?

Have a trip to a weigh bridge - worth it for peace of mind if nothing else.

Russell


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

*Re: Grip*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am no expert, but drive a tag axle motorhome and am more than familiar with tag axle coaches. The latter climed the Pordoi Pass in the Dolomites.


The BIG difference of course, is that the coach is rear wheel drive



Andrew


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

The joys of front wheel drive

If you know your doing some steep passes then its best to lose some weight of the back even if you have to dump your water and refill at the other end (100 litres of water = 100 kilogramms )
Also choose the correct gear before bends and keep the throttle action as smooth as possible
Its also worth keeping a clean pair of undies close to hand
Alan H


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: Grip*



androidGB said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


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## Burneyinn (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks for the advice everybody. I'm sure that I'm not overweight (the van I mean). Next time the wife can drive! She's got more underwear than I have. I'll take a taxi :lol: .


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## 100004 (Jul 12, 2006)

Honestly, get a grip! Wear the wifes undies, then no prob. :lol: I have to say, get the weight forward somehow and get first before you get to the corner. I've been up hardknot i's not fun, but do able. H


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

Burneyinn said:


> We have just returned back from a long earned holiday in Scotland in our 821i Elegance.
> I want to repeat.
> 
> any other tag axle motorhomes ?.


This is exactly what can happen to a front wheel drive car towing a poorly loaded caravan.

Dont carry to much weight in the rear of your camper.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Burneyinn said:


> I then changed my pants !!!!
> This is not an experience I want to repeat.


Hi Burneyinn,

That did make me laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol:

We experienced some really tight bends on our German trip with the tag axle, due to a diversion caused by a road closure, but had no problem, due to anticipating the right gear ratio and angle for the particular bend.

I did seriously consider dropping the water tank due to the steepness of the incline and the number of hairpin bends, but as there was nowhere safe to do this without jeopardising other motorists at the time. I didn't bother.

We came out of it okay.

Jock.


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## framptoncottrell (Jan 6, 2006)

Somewhere I saw a video of a Hobby tag axle - a 750 I think - with the same problem on a sharp, uphill hairpin, sliding backwards into a ditch with the front wheels scrabbling, and failing, to grip.

It's not a problem I've ever had to face, but follow the advice of others - carry as much weight forward and as little behind the tag axles as possible. I understand that there is a problem with vans that have cross-ways bathrooms at the back, since so much weight is carried behing the rear axle that the front end can become very skittish.

Dr (musical, not medical) Roy


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Having changed vans from a rear wheel drive recently to a front wheel drive, I must admit to prefering the RWD. ours does have a short rear overhang though. I think traction control is best when you have 4 drive wheels.
Still everyone does agree that you should move some weight forward.


cabby


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*wheel spin*

This will always be a problem with a vehicle of this weight, on wet surface
try and increase centre weight a bit more . and increase your speed on the decline if poss. or stop and engage 1st gear before you Ascend .that worked for me with a Hymer 694. but in fact it stopped for a fraction and restarted again, we both standing up in cab egging it on. that was in northern spain . never went down any small roads without checking them out after that, (we wild camped mostly)


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi you could always reverse up your hairpin :lol: thereby making your van RWD :lol: :wink: 
terry


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