# Draughts



## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

Sorry to be a pest, but I'm off for our first proper trip on boxing day to cold cornwall, and while putting bits and bobs in the motorhome today I noticed a really bad draught coming from behind the fridge, its really strong, and could blow the drawer open. There are to very large vents behind the fridge where the draught is coming from, is there anything I can do?
What are these vents for?
Its a 2004 Dinghy 3, and is wind tight otherwise.

Thank you all in advance!


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Zoe,

These vents are to allow ventilation for the fridge, which is an engine consuming fuel and generating heat.

However, to allow efficient use all year around, these vents have winter covers available. Do you have these and are they on?

That apart, any other excess draughts are down to inferior build quality/ installation of the fridge. Check the installation manual for the fridge you have and that your installation complies.

Dave


----------



## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

Thanks Dave,
No I don't have winter covers, I will look into that one.


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Zoe...somewhere there is a longer post on this subject but see this one;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-28255-fridge.html+installation

As Dave has suggested fridges are not always fitted with the correct seal that should prevent the draughts you're experiencing. If your van was new then the dealer should sort it. If not then he should still be able to do it but presumably charge you for the work.

G


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

Draughts! I've got them coming in round all my doors . Got some serious insulating to do, but it's too cold to do it!

Should I be fitting fridge vent covers? I'm running the fridge on 240v all the time, except when travelling! I'm not clear from what I've read if they should be fitted at this time of year when the fridge is in use.


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

johnandcharlie said:


> Draughts! I've got them coming in round all my doors . Got some serious insulating to do, but it's too cold to do it!
> .


John, if I'm doing a grandmother and sucking eggs job then forgive me but, be careful when you insulate not to block the legitimate vents that are necessary for safety as well as prevention of condensation.

G


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"I'm not clear from what I've read if they should be fitted at this time of year when the fridge is in use."

John,

I rather do the reverse. If we are constantly looking for shade and aircon, then I take them off ..... 

Seriously, they only need to come off if your fridge is struggling to keep things cold. You'll know soon enough if that's the case.

Dave


----------



## 108526 (Nov 29, 2007)

OOOOOOOOO dear John,
It looks like we're in for a breezy one !


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

Grizzly said:
 

> John, if I'm doing a grandmother and sucking eggs job then forgive me but, be careful when you insulate not to block the legitimate vents that are necessary for safety as well as prevention of condensation.
> 
> G


As I've already been advised, I've blocked one of the vents in the cab doors, and will do the other properly when I can, but I need my 900w oil filled radiator on full all the time at the moment. It's hot at head height, but pretty cold at floor level. Surely there shouldn't be draughts coming in round all the doors? There's no way the gas heating could keep up, and the van is supposed to have class 2 insulation that I read somewhere means it can be kept at 20 degrees when it's 0 degrees outside.

I assume the slots in the Seitz windows are ventilators, and surely they should be enough. The shower room also has ventilation as it's always colder in there. I suppose the door draughts could be an age thing as the seals may not be at their best after 8 years.

Still not clear about the fridge vents. Should I buy and fit them, or not? I'm just down the road from Chelston at the moment, so could try to get some tomorrow, even though they don't give discounts to CC members any more .


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I would be a little bit worried in case the fridge gas combustion fumes leaked back into the cabin.


----------



## DavidRon (May 1, 2005)

The instructions that came with my fridge says to use vent covers when the outside temperature drops below 5'C but this is more to do with the efficient running of the fridge than preventing draughts.

They must *not* be fitted when running on gas.


----------



## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

johnandcharlie said:


> [. It's hot at head height, but pretty cold at floor level. .


Joh..this sounds like the problems we had with our old van which did not have blown air heating.

Where is your thermostat ? Ours used to be conveniently placed above the TV/ kettle and quite high up near the ceiling. Hot air rose and more came from the TV and turned the thermostat off and with it the heating.

Cold air was dragged in all available holes as the hot air rose and our feet froze and heads were too hot. We never satisfactorily cured it but moving the thermostat did make a difference as did, believe it or not, opening the top vent a crack. You can buy remote thermostats that plug in on a cable and so can be moved to somewhere more sensible - ie lower down on the van.

G


----------



## alunj (Sep 5, 2007)

I dont think there should be any kind of draft coming from the back of the fridge. As others have said the combustion gases are vented there and the rear should be gas tight from the habitation space. There should be a good seal all the way round the back and anywhere else the flue gasses can get. I would get it checked and not use gas power for the fridge if you cant get it resolved before you go. Better warm food thean dead.... CO is deadly


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I've got blown air heating and the thermostat is on the end of the kitchen units, but I'm on a hookup all the time so I'm not using it. Not paying for a hookup and gas! I'm using an electric oil filled radiator, and also have a fan heater I use in the morning for a quick warm up. I would have thought that the blown air heating would make the draught even worse, as it would draw cold air half way through the van to the intake.


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Heating*

Hi John

I use blown air heating all the time and find it eliminates cold spots.

Recent temps here have been as low as -7, and tonight is heading the same way. I would have thought though the fan heater would do a good job.

Must admit though I have just got a new thicker duvet, although I have a dog on loan until Thursday, so she will be sleeping on the bed no doubt.

Russell


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> Seriously, they only need to come off if your fridge is struggling to keep things cold. You'll know soon enough if that's the case.





DavidRon said:


> They must not be fitted when running on gas.


You so-and-so. Got me worried you did. Wouldn't have been the first time I placed my lovely wife in mortal danger through carelessness. Had to go out and look/ check the instructions. You will see the top vent cover is quite different to the bottom vent cover, expressly to allow the exhaust to vent on the right-hand-side as we look at the photo. The rest of the vents are for hot air/ cold air circulation.

So mine ARE OK on gas  Perhaps we were talking at cross-purposes on vent covers.

The photo also shows the screwdriver points to remove the covers.

Dave


----------



## DavidRon (May 1, 2005)

Sorry to have caused you worry Dave I should have been more specific  

On some installations the flue gas is vented directly through the top grill without using a separate flue. (My last van did, Autotrail Cheyenne 635)
In these instances the top vent cover at least should not be used when on gas although I preferred to keep the both off. Can't be too careful with gas.

Sorry again Dave

By the way what's a so and so


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

David,

Sounds a dodgy arrangement to me! 

The thought of a user fitted cover able to prevent the toxic exhaust escaping, and thereby relying on manufacturer/converter fitting/sealing around the fridge to prevent these fumes going into the van interior, sounds life-threateningly risky :-(

Dave


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

DavidRon said:


> The instructions that came with my fridge says to use vent covers when the outside temperature drops below 5'C but this is more to do with the efficient running of the fridge than preventing draughts.
> 
> They must *not* be fitted when running on gas.


We fit ours when running on gas. What's the problem? There is a vent hole in them for the fumes to esape!
Talking of draughts, we have found that unless we put the cab ventilation on to recirculate then it leaves the vents open and a draught comes in around your feet. Only found this out after a couple very cold nights (-9) earlier on in the year.
Could be a cause of other folks problems and is worth looking at.


----------



## DavidRon (May 1, 2005)

The information quoted below is taken directly from the Dometic Manual
TB 04/2002.
'Other methods of sealing may be approved. However the chosen method must prevent draughts entering the living space of the caravan or motorhome. Failure to seal correctly will allow warm air to collect around the refrigerator and it's performance will be affected.
If the cavity between the caravan wall and the refrigerator is sealed so that fumes cannot penetrate the living area it is possible to vent the flue gas directly through the upper grill without using the aluminium flue pipe. For this installation method it is recommended that the T-piece of the flue pipe is turned 45 degrees.
*In this case for gas operation do not use the upper winter cover!*'

On the above installation the top grill is identical to the bottom grill, as it was on my 2002 Autotrail Cheyenne 635, and not like the one in Dave's photo. The instructions for the Cheyenne set up said that both covers were not to be used when on gas.

On all four motorhomes I've owned the seal between the fridge & the living area has been poor and at least one of them had the quoted installation. I would never take the chance and cover the grills until I was certain of the type of installation I had.

Vent covers are not intended to prevent draughts in the living area,
they are to prevent the fridge from being exposed to excessively cold air.


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I bought and fitted covers today. What a rip-off. £21.99 for something I could have made out of a bit of scrap material, but it's not easy to do when you're travelling.

It's cold and windy tonight and I noticed a lot of draught in the kitchen cupboards. There's a gap between the van side and the partition between the fridge and drawer unit, so I assume the draught must be coming in through the fridge vents. I'm not impressed. Surely a van that cost £29k new 8 years ago should have details like that finished properly. It's going to take ages to seal all the unnecessary gaps. I suppose it's not intended for living in during the winter, but it wouldn't have taken much to do it properly.


----------



## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi as someone has already said the covers should not be used while on gas but can help on 240v/12v.There should be very little or no draft from the fridge as it should be sealed from the inside/habitation area-poss draft from under fridge as any nasty gas will leave via the top vent.
John I use a £10 thermasstaticly(?) controlled fan heater from argos (2kw)on the low setting (1kw) placed on the floor in my cab area and this cuts in and out during the night,(you soon get used to the slight noise)snug as a bug with only a 4.5 tog quilt and most of the night on top of that. Minus 6 this last w/end at greengrass park :lol: 
terry


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Hi as someone has already said the covers should not be used while on gas "

Terry,

Are you saying this applies to the photo above?

If not, it's like claiming the fourth wheel on a car is a waste of time and people should chuck it away because your Reliant works perfectly on three.

I wish people would caveat their generalisations.

Dave


----------



## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi Dave,yes I did generalise as the correct insatlation of the fridge is important.IF your fridge is sealed inside ie no drafts from around or under,then you can get away with only the top rt/side of your vent,not even requireing the bottom or side bits,solely the 2ins x 3ins bit.As it seams to have attracted a lot of interest and most fridges are not sealed this way that is why I generalised.As you say when reading the instructions you can interprit them as to your own fitting,hope this helps
terry
Edit sorry on this Dave but you need a small bottom vent as well as the top bit  I was thinking on the lines of the old 2ins x 3ins vents on older models (seperate intake down the side of the flue)


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Terry,

This is revealing stuff and worth pursuing, unfortunately more so than I am able to do on this phone in the van in Dorset!

However, as I understand your post, there is absolutely no reason for my set of Dometic vent covers to be designed the way they are!

Dave


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

maddie said:


> John I use a £10 thermasstaticly(?) controlled fan heater from argos (2kw)on the low setting (1kw) placed on the floor in my cab area and this cuts in and out during the night,(you soon get used to the slight noise)snug as a bug with only a 4.5 tog quilt and most of the night on top of that. Minus 6 this last w/end at greengrass park :lol:
> terry


I'd rather get rid of the draughts! Needing to run an electric heater restricts me to staying on sites with a hookup. It's not just my van that suffers from draughts. The fulltimers on the next pitch have a big coachbuilt Bessacarr a year older than mine, and they've got draughts everywhere too.


----------



## 2kias (Sep 18, 2006)

As I said in an earlier comment on this subject we close the vents on the van heater so that they are on recirculate. This has stopped our draughts and I am sure it must work on other models.
One of the reasons we chose our model was that, after bitter experiences of sleeping in draughty caravans, we could shut the door to the sleeping area which makes it very warm.


----------



## johnandcharlie (May 2, 2007)

I've got the heater on recirculate. My main draughts come through the cab doors, sliding door and rear doors. I've blocked the vents in the cab doors. There are places where you can see daylight through the edge of the doors, and more places where you can feel a draught. The seals look OK, but obviously don't seal properly.


----------



## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi John,you say draught on cab doors?is this on the top half ie glass bit? as you say you have blooked the vents up,If so I used to wind the window down,stick my knee in the bottom bit & pull the top to bend it slightly.It worked a treat on my work vans & I would do it to my m/h as well if it needed to be done. :lol: 
terry


----------

