# Jack Russell's opinions please?



## Blueflag

Hi all,
In a year or two we will be looking to get another dog. We have had 3 successive border collies and love them dearly. Lately, though I have been thinking Jack Russell's seem to have so much character and fun about them that we should consider one. Not least that you could easily bath one in the motorhome after a muddy walk!
What experiences have you wise peeps had with them?
Thanks!
Mike


----------



## gaspode

Blueflag said:


> you could easily bath one in the motorhome after a muddy walk


We've had a few Jack Russells and from my experience the above will depend entirely on whether the Jack Russell WANTS to have a bath in the motorhome. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## loddy

I have a cross russell/yorkie and is small enough to be able to scoop up and dry after a walk, she has great character and is quite, an all round nice little dog.


----------



## Blueflag

Ha ha! More or less what I expected!
Our old (ish) border collie walks into the shower cubicle (at home) when I tell her to, no problem.
I think a Jack may be a little like nailing mercury to the ceiling........
They still attract me though  
Mike


----------



## Blueflag

Loddy, that is one seriously cute dog!
Mike


----------



## loddy

If you look closely at my avatar you can see her just to the left of my head, bit like Churchill the nodding dog

Loddy


----------



## Zebedee

The real Parson Jack Russells with the longer legs are IMO a much more attractive dog, and considerably more biddable.

When is a receptive mood it shouldn't take more than three or four hours to get one into the bathroom . . . . and not much longer than that to finally get him into the bath!!!

But seriously though, they are still terriers with all their faults and foibles, but they are easier to train and less obstinate than the little short-legged chaps - and a really gorgeous dog if you get ones with the right markings.


----------



## owl459

*Jack Russells*

I agree with Zebedee. I have one called Molly and she is great in the van. She is not too keen on the shower, but is so dainty she seldom gets dirty. She would rather walk round a puddle or jump over it.


----------



## StAubyns

We had a long haired, short legged Jack Russell, and to say he had character is an understatement 8O 

I've still got the marks to prove it!

If we were going out but did not want to take him with us, it was a real problem getting out of the house.

I buried him 11 years ago, but Oh Boy, I still miss that dog

RIP Patch


----------



## Mikemoss

I'm a life-long Border Collie lover and could never even contemplate a change of breed. Having said that, one late-lamented Jack Russell that belonged to a friend was an amazing little dog. The others I've come across in passing are fine where they are.....in passing.

Hope I'm not offending JR owners here, just my opinion, but in all honesty I don't think two breeds could be much further apart.


----------



## aldhp21

If you are worried about the temperament of a Jack Russell have a look at the border terrier. tend to be a bit calmer than Jack Russell.

Or better still get both!!!

Cheers
Alan


----------



## badger

I just don't like small dogs...............we've had a couple........but still not keen, I keep tripping over them.  :evil: 

There was a blind guy at a bus stop who was bitten on the ankle by a jack russel, he bent down and patted him. A passer by said what a kind thing to do after he'd bitten you. The guy said I was just finding his head so I could kick him up the a**se :twisted: 


THIS POST IS BASED ON MY OPINION, WITH AN ATTEMPT AT A LITTLE HUMOUR THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE.......(ALTHOUGH THE GAG WAS AN OLD ONE) MY APPOLOGIES TO SMALL DOG LOVERS EVERYWHERE :wink:


----------



## Zebedee

badger said:


> MY APPOLOGIES TO SMALL DOG LOVERS EVERYWHERE :wink:


No apology needed here Badger.

I'm 6' 3"!!


----------



## AndrewandShirley

Had a Jack Russell and a huge great black lab.

Jack Russell ruled and was very good, not snappy but had hell of a job to train the to come back when called and to be off the lead.

Prob would not have another and she was so quick and a master escaper.

She was very playful with kids and really had no probs.

We are going for a rescue Greyhound/Lurcher.

Minimal exercise, minimal hair loss, curl up very small and love a cuddle!


----------



## Pollydoodle

I have to say Im a big dog fan. Have had a GS x collie, collie x retriever. Now have a small lab. If anyone came to the house with a small dog, they would ALL turn their backs on them. We live in the country so have quite a bit to do with Jacks. What I really cant stand is the yappy ones, but then you can get that with big dogs, only louder. It is probably the owners that need training :lol: Son has a jack russel x border terrier puppy 14 weeks old. I have just spent the w/end kicking it around the house, not on purpose I hasten to add - it just kept getting under my feet. When it eventually settled on my lap I was warm & cozy.


----------



## carolgavin

I like em but would want a wee furry one like the cute one in the pic above. However am getting a curly coated retriever, no difference there then eh????


----------



## Pollydoodle

Carol

Do you realise it will get too big for your lap :lol: Although years ago I met a lady who bred them , and she had a full grown one on her lap, and another on the settee beside her


----------



## carolgavin

Pollydoodle said:


> Carol
> 
> Do you realise it will get too big for your lap :lol: Although years ago I met a lady who bred them , and she had a full grown one on her lap, and another on the settee beside her


Well yes thats troo but already have an english setter who thinks he is a wee lapdog :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Am not gonna let it on the settee.............................honest :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## 107088

I'm not saying: I always get into trouble when I say that I dont like small dogs, in my experience they're yappy, bad tempered, dominant, and aggressive, not that its their fault, especially the terrier breeds, after all, they get bred to be kiling working dogs, and then conider the poor little white things, which look like cottonwool balls on legs.....think of how embarassing it must be to look like that, then to pile coals on that fire, get pink collars, ribbons, picked up all the time and treated like child substitutes instead of a dog.

Anyway, like I said, since I always get into trouble, I shant mention my ideas about JRT's.


----------



## Zebedee

Hi Bandy

You want one of these then!

The one on the right with the big black nose - just in case there's any confusion. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## 107088

Dave...........it's beautiful....what is it?....where can I part exchange my 2 for one.......is the lady part of the dear, and if so I want 2.



Right......for sale or part exchange. Border collie, large for breed, barmy as a bag of frogs, also, Belgian shephard bitch, also, slightly potty,

p.s. I had an English Mastiff before these 2 now, and she was huge, but that one on the photo, makes her look like a Chiuhow...chicum..yorkie.


----------



## Sonesta

bandaid said:


> I'm not saying: I always get into trouble when I say that I dont like small dogs, in my experience they're yappy, bad tempered, dominant, and aggressive, not that its their fault, especially the terrier breeds, after all, they get bred to be kiling working dogs, and then conider the poor little white things, which look like cottonwool balls on legs.....think of how embarassing it must be to look like that, then to pile coals on that fire, get pink collars, ribbons, picked up all the time and treated like child substitutes instead of a dog.
> 
> Anyway, like I said, since I always get into trouble, I shant mention my ideas about JRT's.


Oi *YOU* cheeky devil Bandaid are you after a great whacking kick in the shins or what? :twisted: I'll have you know I happen to have 2 little 'white things' as you put it and we adore them and being small, white and fluffy just adds to their cuteness! They are such lovely little dogs and so loyal and why should they be embarassed ? They are dogs and I doubt if they give a monkey's how they look at all? So come on Bandaid what dog/dogs do you own ...... I bet they are Rottweillers but then again, thinking about it - your bark is probably worse than you bite, so on second thoughts I can picture you with a chihuahua or two! :wink:

Mmm me thinks it's just your macho image that you are concerned about really and to be seen with a little white fluffy dog would probaby damage your streed cred wouldn't it? Ha Ha! :lol: Do you worry that your dog may reflect something about your character cos if you are - then you have suprised me cos I thought you had more b***s than that? 8O Thank god my hubby doesn't worry about such things as otherwise our little dogs wouldn't get half as many walks as they do!

As for Jack Russells - I don't know a great deal about the breed myself but my son has recently got himself the most gorgeous and adoreable little Jack Russell puppy ever and she is a lovely little dog and really well behaved too. I was amazed at how good she is and she literally follows my son everywhere. She was house trained in record time and is so obedient and even goes to work with him and sits in his digger ang never makes any attempt to run off or anything. If he calls her she immediately runs back to him too. If my son's dog is a typical example of a Jack Russells tempreament then they seem like they could make a lovely family pet!

Sue

PS Bandaid I noitce your chosen avatar is a cute little green dragon with a cheeky little wink .................. so you see, you do have a soft spot for cute litte animals don't ya? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## EdinburghCamper

Not sure if you are dead cert on a Jack Russel or not, my only experience of them - being chased down the road as a kid, ankle bighter!

I have a young King Charles Cav, and whilst a little bigger than a Jack Russel, I think they are small enough for loads of cuddles, and they are so friendly and affectionate.

If you did decide on any breed, be careful to research for potential "defects" due to poor breeding.

Basil:

Sorry for the darkness, I was very new to photography when I took this:



























Good luck whatever you do, these wee guys trully are mans best friend. Me and my wife would be lost without Basil.

Gary.


----------



## carolgavin

Right Gary hunny you are hired, when can ya come and make Neo my english setter look so cute in a pic. Very good, you don't take pics professionally do ya??? Cos they are stunnin!!


Sue I just love your wee doggies.


----------



## EdinburghCamper

carolgavin said:


> Right Gary hunny you are hired, when can ya come and make Neo my english setter look so cute in a pic. Very good, you don't take pics professionally do ya??? Cos they are stunnin!!
> 
> Sue I just love your wee doggies.


I do it part time FOR FREE, attempting to build a portfolio.

I can make any pet look UBER CUTE I reckon, how is this for starters? 










Sorry for the thread hi-jack! Carol, seriously, if you want dog pics, gimme a shout - I will bring Basil and me wife, he needs to "socialise" as he barks at anything non human that moves!

Gary.


----------



## Blueflag

Great pics Edinburghcamper!
So many opinions, guess I'm just going to have to meet as many Jac Russells on my travels as possible before I make up my mind.................


----------



## patp

Yes - as already mentioned these two breeds are poles apart in my opinion. Your BC comes hard wired to work for you. Terriers on the other hand come hard wired to work away from you. I mean that quite literaly too. They had to be independent minded to go to ground after vermin etc. As Zebedee has said I think that the Parson Russels are slightly easier to train and my sister in law does agility with hers. This time round though she has gone for a Bedlington cross Parson Russel - cute or what!

What about a Border Collie cross? Have a look down the dog's home. A friend of ours went down our local one to get something small and fluffy. Came back with a greyhound 8O Never regreted it though - he said it was the best dog he had ever had.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

Pat


----------



## Sonesta

Wow Gary, What absolutely stunning photographs ...... I am impressed! By the way I love your dog, he is so cute and the kitten too is adoreable! 

Sue


----------



## EdinburghCamper

Sonesta said:


> Wow Gary, What absolutely stunning photographs ...... I am impressed! By the way I love your dog, he is so cute and the kitten too is adoreable!
> 
> Sue


Aww thanks Sue. Many many more animal pics on my site here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishsnaps/collections/72157605232246386/

Regards,

Gary.


----------



## badger

Yes Yes OK very cute...........but what I want to know is can you make my GS cross look mean and menacing for o pic on a beware of the dog sign. I keep trying but he always looks cute and smiling and with his tongue out.... :roll:


----------



## Zebedee

badger said:


> Yes Yes OK very cute...........but what I want to know is can you make my GS cross look mean and menacing for o pic on a beware of the dog sign. I keep trying but he always looks cute and smiling and with his tongue out.... :roll:


You could always pose instead Badger.

Your avatar alone could curdle milk and frighten small boys into eating up their Brussels sprouts!!


----------



## EdinburghCamper

badger said:


> Yes Yes OK very cute...........but what I want to know is can you make my GS cross look mean and menacing for o pic on a beware of the dog sign. I keep trying but he always looks cute and smiling and with his tongue out.... :roll:


Give him a steak, and try and take it back  I will take photos 

Gary.


----------



## Briarose

Hi many years ago my Mum and Dad had a yorkie which they adored, sadly it had to be put to sleep after picking up an infection from a rat............I in my wisdom decided to buy them a dog and saw at that time some JRs advertised so duly bought one.

He was real cute but they had terrible problems with him chewing things up when left alone, and when they came back to the imitation leather sette in pieces the poor boy had to go.............they got him a new home with a retired couple and Mum often saw the couple walking him, as far as I know he lived happily ever after........thats about the only experience I have of JRs but a lady up the road has a lovely parsons JR and she adores him and often stands to chat to me with him.

We now have two welsh terriers and have to say that they are no trouble at all (well apart from the boy sometimes decides to have a dig in the back garden LOL) no hairs but they do have to be clipped or stripped, sturdy medium sized dogs...........we love our two to bits, and they are quite rare now, so get a lot of comments from folk mostly 'oh are they little airedales etc' and we have found this breed to be loveable rogues, whilst independant too................I am sure the other two members of this forum that have the same breed will confirm that LOL.

Are you looking for a male or female dog ? as I think that too makes a difference.............never had a bitch before but must say that with the one we have now she is very loveable.


----------



## josieb

You have to remember that a terrier is a terrier and what terriers were bred for. After having a pastoral working dog a terrier temperament might not be for you. I have two German terriers (Schnauzers) that I bred. but after 40 years of working breeds, cant wait to get another Giant and get back to peaceful times, not that we dont love our dogs cos after 11 years you can grow fond of them :lol: Terriers are a different ball game so have a good think first, as a dog should be for life!!!


----------



## nickpl

Never used to be a great lover of small dogs, referred to them as rats on leads. Six years ago bought a Great Dane, Mrs wanted one, didn't do any research, bad move, turns out the breeder was a bad un, I spent over 3 grand on operations, couldn't take him back breeder would have put him down.

Three years on decided to buy a small dog to keep the Dane active and also for company. Jack Russel was the final choice. 

If I were to buy another dog tomorrow, it would be a Jack, they are tremendous companions. They are strong willed, but that's a plus not a negative in my books, it gives them their character. They're intelligent, loyal and live long healthy lives. 

As far as obedience, they are no different to any other dog, time and patience is all they require and more importantly deserve.


----------



## 99843

Hi here is Poppy our twelve week old JR. She is brave, intellegent and full of charecter. She loves children and cuddles, she is not fond of water and like the rest of us hates the cold,plus she likes riding about in the motorhome and going to rallies


----------



## carolgavin

EdinburghCamper said:


> clipped
> 
> Sorry for the thread hi-jack! Carol, seriously, if you want dog pics, gimme a shout - I will bring Basil and me wife, he needs to "socialise" as he barks at anything non human that moves!
> 
> Gary.


Gary hunny I am gonna take you up on that offer when I get my new puppy in January if thats ok. Would love to meet you and the missus and Basil!!


----------



## 117039

I agree with patp. You could do much worse than visit your local dog pound.

I 'rescued' our cross collie from 'Death Row' over 14 years ago and she is the best dog in the world! (in my opinion anyway!).

Just dread the day she goes to doggy heaven  .

Gary - your photos are wonderful. I think you could end up with a lot of requests for your services with work like that. You can tell from your photos that you love animals.


----------



## Blueflag

All my collies have been bitches, I've never owned a dog!
Loads of great advice here, thanks again........


----------



## Marian

*Jack Russells*

How to get a Jack Russell into the bath.

1) Liberally grease the sides of the bath with approx 100 litres vaseline (other lubricants are available)

2) Run water into bath at boiling point

3) Balance juke box on dog's nose

4) By the time you succeed in getting the dog into the bath the water will be at the correct temperature and you will be lacerated from eyebrow to groin

I have had 3 Jack Russells in the past and currently am the van sharer of a collie X (and the old man).

They are totally different dogs, each with their own characteristics and I love them all. Jack Russells are NOT biddable dogs and I would advise a bitch rather than a dog.

My old fella, Gordon, was an escaper and would be gone for hours. He came back one Easter Sunday with a whole cooked turkey in his mouth. My brother, Pete, spent the rest of the day building up the gate so it was too high for Gordon to jump. he spent the next two hours trying to dig his way out via the concrete path.

I have about two hundred stories about that dog, he lived till he was 18 and not many weeks went by without him getting up to something. Gosh I miss him


----------



## EdinburghCamper

carolgavin said:


> EdinburghCamper said:
> 
> 
> 
> clipped
> 
> Sorry for the thread hi-jack! Carol, seriously, if you want dog pics, gimme a shout - I will bring Basil and me wife, he needs to "socialise" as he barks at anything non human that moves!
> 
> Gary.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary hunny I am gonna take you up on that offer when I get my new puppy in January if thats ok. Would love to meet you and the missus and Basil!!
Click to expand...

Excellent, looking forward to it


----------



## EdinburghCamper

Parrothead said:


> I agree with patp. You could do much worse than visit your local dog pound.
> 
> I 'rescued' our cross collie from 'Death Row' over 14 years ago and she is the best dog in the world! (in my opinion anyway!).
> 
> Just dread the day she goes to doggy heaven  .
> 
> Gary - your photos are wonderful. I think you could end up with a lot of requests for your services with work like that. You can tell from your photos that you love animals.


Pet Crazy here  3 cats, (Tigger, Tootsie, Tango) and our Dog, (Basil). African Grey Parrot (Mario) - he lives with Gran as he gets lonely when I work, and Harry, my Umbrella Cockatoo - in a zoo about 40 miles away, again due to my lack of commitment via work.

I feel terrible about the birds, but bred in captivity and I have ensure both Harry and Mario are getting a much better live than most "caged birds".

Gary.


----------



## Zebedee

This is a real terrier.  

The sort Briarose referred to earlier.


----------



## EdinburghCamper

Zebedee said:


> This is a real terrier.
> 
> The sort Briarose referred to earlier.


What a cutey!!!


----------



## Spacerunner

Why get a breed?

Since the TV show that pulled the Kennel Club breed standards into the open it would be doing the canine world a big service by ignoring any of the KC official breeds and choosing a common old mongrel. 

I'm not sure if JR's have a KC standard as there appear to be so many variations on a theme. Similarly Collies are accepted in many guises.

Dogs are like people, its the difference that make them interesting.

Why don't you check out the local rescue centres and give a dog a second chance?


----------



## maggielou

hi

Don't think you can even compare a border collie to any other breed.

Have had 11 over a number of years and they are just the best providing they are educated and exercised and loved.

A small shortcoated bitch would easily suit.

Lots of wonderful medium and small dogs out there with lots of character but you will probably always wonder if you should have got another border collie.

Loads looking for homes at the various border collie rescue centres.

No harm in looking
:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Maggie


----------



## 107088

Sonesta said:


> Oi *YOU* cheeky devil Bandaid are you after a great whacking kick in the shins or what? :twisted: I'll have you know I happen to have 2 little 'white things' as you put it and we adore them and being small, white and fluffy just adds to their cuteness! They are such lovely little dogs and so loyal and why should they be embarassed ? They are dogs and I doubt if they give a monkey's how they look at all? So come on Bandaid what dog/dogs do you own ...... I bet they are Rottweillers but then again, thinking about it - your bark is probably worse than you bite, so on second thoughts I can picture you with a chihuahua or two! :wink:
> 
> Mmm me thinks it's just your macho image that you are concerned about really and to be seen with a little white fluffy dog would probaby damage your streed cred wouldn't it? Ha Ha! :lol: Do you worry that your dog may reflect something about your character cos if you are - then you have suprised me cos I thought you had more b***s than that? 8O Thank god my hubby doesn't worry about such things as otherwise our little dogs wouldn't get half as many walks as they do!
> 
> Sue
> 
> PS Bandaid I noitce your chosen avatar is a cute little green dragon with a cheeky little wink .................. so you see, you do have a soft spot for cute litte animals don't ya? :lol: :lol: :lol:


sue, my 2 are:

Border Collie,( dog)

Belgian Sheppard. (bitch.) (to get a Belgian shepherd, take 1 German Shepherd, place in washing machine at 60 degrees and wait till it shrinks.

Anyway, maybe its the attitude of some ( and I emphasise some, as I wouldnt presume to question either your image, or that of your husband, without meeting you) owners of little dogs, who consider that their little dogs, are somehow, more human than dogs. which they're not. Like...f'intance, Little boy or little girl dogs.....thems dogs, and bitches....nobody calls a male horse a little boy, or female pig a little girl, just drives me mental.

No I'd never have a chihu...chiwaow...chi..oh one of them hampster size dogs, because.....I dont like them, and I cant spell it. Actually the dog I most like to have if it werent for the dymanic duo, would be......a medium sized Mutt. small labrador in size. One that we humans havent managed to faff about with so the health problems are not so spectacular. Basically anything the Kennel Club hasnt got its hands on.; and its got to be a rescue too. never would I go to a breeder, untill all the sanctuaries are empty.


----------



## Sonesta

bandaid said:


> sue, my 2 are:
> 
> Border Collie,( dog)
> 
> Belgian Sheppard. (bitch.) (to get a Belgian shepherd, take 1 German Shepherd, place in washing machine at 60 degrees and wait till it shrinks.
> 
> Anyway, maybe its the attitude of some ( and I emphasise some, as I wouldnt presume to question either your image, or that of your husband, without meeting you) owners of little dogs, who consider that their little dogs, are somehow, more human than dogs. which they're not. Like...f'intance, Little boy or little girl dogs.....thems dogs, and bitches....nobody calls a male horse a little boy, or female pig a little girl, just drives me mental.
> 
> No I'd never have a chihu...chiwaow...chi..oh one of them hampster size dogs, because.....I dont like them, and I cant spell it. Actually the dog I most like to have if it werent for the dymanic duo, would be......a medium sized Mutt. small labrador in size. One that we humans havent managed to faff about with so the health problems are not so spectacular. Basically anything the Kennel Club hasnt got its hands on.; and its got to be a rescue too. never would I go to a breeder, untill all the sanctuaries are empty.


Hi again,

Well to be honest apart from using their names; Candy and Buddy, I must confess I am sometimes guilty of the crime you hate so much and many a time I refer to our 2 as a little boy or a little girl. I think that's because they are that particular gender and are a small dog and so to me saying little girl or little boy seems quite natural! As for treating them like children mmm that's another thing I can relate to and although ours are first and foremost dogs - we love them like they were our children if that makes any sense? However, I wouldnt go so far as to push em around in a pram, dress them in clothes etc and those people that do, I must admit I do find rather odd! 8O

As for our image - ooh I don't think I have one of them if the truth be known ha ha! :lol: And to be frank Bandaid I don't really worry about my image and neither does my husband - so if people wish to judge us based purely on the type of dogs we own then let em - it doesn't worry us! :roll:

I love border collies by the way as they are so clever.

Sue


----------



## 109481

Mike
We have two JR bitches that are now 3 years old. We thought that two dogs would be company for each other
They are sisters and we chose them because they were house bred so they were used to people and were small enough to use the cat flap when left at home
They travel everywhere with us and we can leave them in the MH as guard dogs
They are of course terriers; they bark at other dogs, chase rabbits etc and generally get into everything
I wouldn’t recommend washing them inside the MH; hose them down outside
Go for it!
Happy wheels
Skimbo


----------



## Zebedee

bandaid said:


> Like...f'intance, Little boy or little girl dogs.....thems dogs, and bitches....nobody calls a male horse a *little boy*, or female pig a *little girl*, just drives me mental.


You're forgetting Bandy . . . it's terriers we are talking about here! :roll:

Ours gets called "Little sh...." at least five times a day, and not without good reason. 8O :roll:

When they are described as "Full of character" that usually means they are perfectly behaved . . . on the very rare occasions that it suits them, or if the food bowl is about to be replenished!  8O


----------



## 107088

Dave,

I have been thunking about this subject, and I have concluded, that I ahve been unfair on the dogs themselves. 

Clearly, my problem is ...well, heres the f'instance.

So there am I with me mutts on their consitutional this morning, and along come small, hairy, non descript dog. Yelling and barking with considerable baring of teef.

Owner pitches up and explains to me that they were only looking to play....Right....anyway, up into the arm goes the most ....er..forward of the 2, and then, low and behold, it bits the owner, drawing blood. What does the owner do?, she says, Oh dear, I must have upset her....no consequences to this dogs action. nothing....if they were mine, there would have been immediate and ( for the dog) unpleasant consequences to it biting me......If mine were to have belted up to omeones dog in a similar manner, then I would have been in deep doo doo. 

So, its the people, not the dog, and , incidentally, to all those who train and lead their dogs proper like, I am abjectly apologetic.


----------



## maggielou

Hi Bandaid,

Totally agree, its people, and the worst thing is that the lady in question is making her dogs miserable to the point that they are showing aggression.

Like children dogs need to know the ground rules and the boundaries and in so doing they become confident and contented.

All dogs should walk properly on a lead, come back immediately when called, and drop into the down position on command up to a distance of 100 yards.

I have lost count of the number of times people say "he knows I want him to come back but he just doesn't do it."

Yes of course they recognise when the owner wants them back, what they don't recognise is that the command is not optional.

1000's of owners permit their dogs to recall as and when the dog feels like it, if at all.

These 3 demands form the basis of the respect which is an intergral part of any relationship and its not rocket science to teach.


----------



## Zebedee

Good theory Maggielou - the recall that is, but it don't always work with terriers.

Our Gracie is pretty well trained, and will do all the things you mention and a few more besides - UNTIL she gets the scent of a squirrel or fox and then there is no power on earth that will call her back.

Without such distractions she will stop, go down, wait, come etc. all at a distance of 50 to 60 yards (if not 100) but if in the course of a walk the nostils get the taste of vermin, she just goes completely deaf and runs off.

This is a damn nuisance as we have to keep her on the lead at all times, not to say annoying because I can't train her to obey the (arguably) most important command of all. We really thought we had lost her several times, and there are fast main roads all around her favourite walk.

Any hints and tips would be welcome. We know a bit about dogs after over 50 years of owning them (or being owned by them?) but this little sh.... , errmmm I mean "terrier", has got us beaten on this command.

Cheers


----------



## aultymer

Zebedee,
We discussed this same problem with a crofter friend many years ago.
His solution was to 'put a bit of lead in it's ear'.
When I asked how you got the lead in he said,




With a .22!!!!



only kidding, we love dogs really.


----------



## maggielou

Hi Dave, yes these little blighters are difficult. They respond so well to their instincts to hunt, but it no excuse. For example my border collies have been bred for generations to work sheep, however it does not effect their recall when walking on sheep covered moors. I have had a couple that I actually worked sheep with, and they were a bit of a nuisence when walking on the moors, because although they responded immediately to their recall they spent the whole walk eyeing the sheep.

Ultimately the dog pays the price because as you say it gets to the point where you can't let them run free, and its every dogs right to have free running time.

I would consolidate your recall as much as possible in places where she is less likely to hunt. It should be almost habitual and they should come on the first command, no stopping for that final sniff or wee.

If this is not possible then do it in an enclosed garden using food and a hungrey dog. Place the food, small pieces spread over about 1 meter square. Let her out and when she is fully occupied in eating the food call her. If she refuses to come, go to her, pop her lead on and walk backwards for about 20 paces, giving her little jerks every 3/4 paces acompanied by the recall command. Do not drag her to you, to learn she must come of her own volition. The lead is only to prevent her from running away back to the food and the jerks are only to explain what is required and thats its not optional. After 20 paces or so reward with a tipbit from your pocket then take her into the house and have a play.

After about 15 minutes repeat. 3 times a day for a week should do the trick. Then take her to a cultivated park type area.let her off and recall within the first minute. If she refuses to come on the first command immediately approach her as you did in the garden. Do not give her additional commands. After a couple of goes, she will relate it to the garden exercises and remember what is required.

When this is perfected you can move on to " hunting type grounds"
but initially try to call her before she gets particularly interested and reward with tipbits and loads of play before releasing her again.

Within a month recall should be second nature regardless of what she is doing.

The play is very important as it will raise her focus on you.

Its not easy to include all the details required and is much easier to understand when shown.

Anyway if you are still interested I will be at the global and could perhaps explain better there.

Hope it helps.

Maggie


----------



## Zebedee

Thanks Maggie

I have tried most of the techniques you suggest, but not the "hungry dog in the garden" one, and that sounds promising.  

If we can establish instant response in the garden it should not be too difficult to transfer that to the outside world (hope the dog is reading this! 8O ) especially where distractions are minimised.

Shall give it a go, as she did love to be off the lead before she grew up enough for the hunting instincts to kick in.

Thanks again


----------



## Kelcat

Dave - let me know how you get on with this technique.
Obviously Pushka (avatar) has an extremely strong hunting instict. We've got about 1/2 an acre & the recall works fabulously in the garden - but dogs learn different rules for different places - & she's never managed to transfer her recall to the greater world! (3hrs walking round the woods at Grizedale last month!).

I find the problem with most small dogs (sorry for the generalisation - I mean most small dogs that I meet) - is the owners - most seem to think that because they can resort to picking the dog up physically (or worse as one chap who passes us in the park does - pick it up by it's lead :evil: ) they don't need to work as hard on the training. I regularly comment that if my large wolf like dog behaved like most small dogs the poilce would be called - most large dog owners (owners of large dogs!) simply have to be able to control their dogs or they wouldn't be a viable pet.


----------



## 107088

Kelcat said:


> . I regularly comment that if my large wolf like dog behaved like most small dogs the poilce would be called - most large dog owners (owners of large dogs!) simply have to be able to control their dogs or they wouldn't be a viable pet.


Oh thank the Lord.

Dave, in your inimitable fashion, you have hit the nail on the head.

For generations, people have bred terriers ( and hounds) for one thing. To work, and their work is predominantly to kill. They are killers by instinct, and by inclination, but, nowadays, we need the smallness of most terriers ( or other small breeds) as they fit into our modern lifestyle. People think..oh, small dog, small excercise...how wrong.

My sheep herders, are bred to herd sheep, simply by selectively enhancing the pack/kill instinct. This is fine when they are worked by people who know what they're doing, or if their natural ( bred for) intellect is channelled into other intereting stuff, like, agility.


----------



## Zebedee

Kelcat said:


> Dave - let me know how you get on with this technique.


Will do, but it won't happen overnight of course so remind me if time passes and you think Dr Alzheimer is at work again!!  



Kelcat said:


> . . . or they wouldn't be a viable pet.


Same is true of our little sh.... terrier, in my opinion. 8O

Much as we are very fond of her, she has a place in the hierarchy and is very well aware of it. Naturally she challenges Mrs Zeb _(Dog 2)_ rather more often than she tries it on with me _(Dog 1), _but we both keep her firmly in her place, and I'm sure she is a lot happier and more secure in knowing exactly where she stands. 

Allowances are made of course as she is still quite young (14 months) and gets very excited especially when people visit. She has to settle down sensibly within a couple of minutes though, or it's into the cage while she calms down (with some treats and a stroke so she doesn't make negative associations).

Who'd have a dog . . . eh? :roll:


----------



## patp

I think we forget at our peril that at the end of the day if a dog really doesn't want to do something it is just not going to do it!

To this end we have to find a way of making the dog WANT to come back to us. This means MOTIVATION. All dogs differ in the things that motivate them. A dog locked in a kennel for most of the day will do almost anything for a bit of attention from someone i.e. gundogs will work for praise.
Many dogs will come back for food. Some will come back for a game with a toy.
My lurcher, who has her KC Good Citizen Gold, struggles to come back for food (chicken, liver etc) followed by cuddles followed by a thrilling game with a toy, if she is on a chase. Doesn't mean to say I stop trying.

Many owners (me included ) get boring to their dogs. They call them away from a fantastic smell and say "good dog". Well I am afraid it is not enough. It is like a boss saying "well done" after a week's work instead of giving us the pay packet!

Oh and never, ever, ever get cross when they do eventually return. It will be this they remember, over all the other rewarding times, the next time you caaaaaaaaaaall................

Dave - little tip. Change your recall signal. Use a different word or get a whistle. Make all the recalls absolutely, fantastically rewarding and she will, hopefull associate this new recall sound with the brilliant reward she gets when she returns. Once she is good at it change to intermittently rewarding her to keep her guessing and trying harder.

Good Luck

Pat (sorry for the long post!)


----------



## Zebedee

patp said:


> Dave - little tip. Change your recall signal. Use a different word or get a whistle. Make all the recalls absolutely, fantastically rewarding and she will, hopefull associate this new recall sound with the brilliant reward she gets when she returns. Once she is good at it change to intermittently rewarding her to keep her guessing and trying harder.
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> Pat


Very good tip Pat, and thanks. 

We did have initial success with the whistle, but like every other recall we tried it only worked when she had not gone selectively deaf with a whiff of vermin up the nostrils!!! :? Will resurrect them as we have not used them for a while.

Variety might also be an answer though, so I'll give that a go . . . and intermittent reinforcement is certainly the strongest motivator of all - one-armed bandits are a classic example!

With our old dog I could stop her if I got in quick during the first few strides, but after that more than often she would go at least part way toward the source of the interest. I think it's a particular Welshie thing, as just about every other owner we have spoken to has a similar problem. :roll:

If only for my own peace of mind I just put her through her paces with half a sausage - her favourite treat!

No problems at all. Sit. Give a paw. Down. Wait to be told. All perfect, and I could have had her sitting there and dribbling for five minutes if I wanted to. One sniff of a fox though and she's gone!! 8O

Ah well - keep trying. She's a lovely little dog in spite of her stubborn streak!!


----------



## nickpl

A command to your dog is just that, it's not a request. Any time time you give a dog a command it has to be followed through, no exceptions. A dog is a pack animal. In a pack a subordinate dog will not disobey the pack leader, dogs have to understand their position in the pack i.e. the family environment and understand they are subordinate. All training, interaction etc has to be based around this.....

For it's own benefit and happiness a dog needs rules, boundries and firm calm commands, if not it will become confused and stressed, that's not the dogs fault it lies firmly in the hands of the owner. 

It doesn't have the mind of a human...thankfully....

Coincidently, just watching Animal cops on tv, that job would drive me to commit murder within the first week. I don't understand why someone would have an animal and then starve it to death.... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
The human race is capable of such amazing acts of kindness and yet such despicable acts of cruelty to animals that want nothing more than a little attention and kindness but are willing to give everything in return. We don't deserve their loyalty.....


----------



## maggielou

Hi Adrian

Your'e absolutely right of course. If various doggy ways and instincts are not acceptable to us then it is our responsibility to replace them with other activities that the dogs will enjoy, in your case agility for others obedience, working trials, flyball etc. In this way we become not just the alpha but also the friend and especially the focus in the dogs life.

For example while going at speed and concentrating on the various obstacles in agility part of your dog's focus remains on you and this enables him to take command. I know you know all this already.

Lots of owners are happy to throw a ball for a dog but this is not enough.
They need owner participation and its so easy to create simple ball games that will allow this if one does not wish to do the more programmed activities.

I could bore you to death with stories of dogs from great danes to border terriers who underwent a personality and obedience transformation when owners learnt to participate in play.

_Oh and never, ever, ever get cross when they do eventually return. It will be this they remember, over all the other rewarding times, the next time you caaaaaaaaaaall_

Totally disagree with this in most cases except puppies and young dogs learning.

Say you have a 3 year old dog who after being called, perhaps several times, continues to do his own thing before deciding to return in his own good time. Then he is showered with praise, food and affection so
he is being rewarded time and time again for this unacceptable behaviour.

How is he ever supposed to learn that his behaviour is not acceptable.

Dog training is common sense. Reward motivates the dog to enjoy being obedient. Respect motivates the actual obedience.


----------



## phil4francoise

just my opinion of course ,but Jack russells for me does not work.They are the most aggresive, snappy bad tempered breed I have ever known.My in-laws had one and when the phone rang God help you if you answered it ,you would have a jack russell hanging from your arm,Our next door neigbour has 3 of the B*****y things and given half a chance they will attack my very dosile St Bernard .and bark my god all day everyday yap yap B*****Y yap.Like I said just my opinion.You could always go the whole hog and get a 6 berth motorhome and a St Bernard like us.


----------



## josieb

For nearly 40 years I have owned and worked Dobermanns and Giant Schnauzers at obedience, working trials and all of them daily with sheep and cows. They have all been 100%.

Along with them I have owned Schnauzers (GermanTerriers) so you would think I would have them licked into shape, wouldn't you? alas no chance!! In a very controlled environment brilliant but let them loose near anything living and wallop instant death!! I work in and around game birds, thousands of them, and these Schnauzers have been around them since they could walk but still they want to kill.

Its just fact what the dogs was bred for, the true instinct, you just have to work with it. You cant take the terrier out of the terrier just enjoy them for what they are and be a good responsible owner


----------



## maggielou

hi Nickpl

You said it all so much more precisely than me. Couldn't agree more on all your points.

Dave, Youre dog already knows the command and the meaning of the command, it only needs to learn that it is not optional so no need to change it. In fact if you change it you may need to start at the beginning again to allow her to understand the new command.

I used to use a sheepdog whistle to recall my dogs but got sick of people asking me where I bought the magic whistle that made dogs come when they were called. An explanation usually involved a 15 minute verbal training session so I stopped using them.

Anyway good luck Dave.


----------



## Zebedee

nickpl said:


> A command to your dog is just that, it's not a request. Any time time you give a dog a command it has to be followed through, no exceptions. A dog is a pack animal. In a pack a subordinate dog will not disobey the pack leader, dogs have to understand their position in the pack i.e. the family environment and understand they are subordinate. All training, interaction etc has to be based around this.....


Couldn't agree more Nick, but nobody has told our Gracie that! 8O :roll:

As you can see from my earlier posts, she is very subservient and totally obedient . . . until she is distracted by something she wants to investigate, usually either a whiff of vermin or kids in the distance.

At home if I raise my voice she instantly rolls on her back and exposes her belly, and that's the classic submission posture to the pack leader (or hierarchical superior).

None of this cures her deafness however when she sets off on a "mission". :roll:


----------



## litcher

I tend to agree with the posts about terriers being particularly difficult. When I was a child my grandfather had working collies to round up the sheep and cattle. They were beautifully behaved and answered every word, hand signal and whistle.

My parents had a German shepherd/husky cross who had been passed from pillar to post. I think we were the fifth family he lived with and he was fairly out of control. My mother trained him to the extent that she could make him stay, walk across a field, raise her hand and he'd come. In the end he too was beautifully behaved.

We also had a cairn terrier. Oh, he would do tricks and was a well-mannered, well-behaved little dog - most of the time. But when he decided to go there was nothing anyone could do to stop him. :roll: You see lots of border collies in obedience competitions but you don't see many cairns! :roll: He was a lovely dog, absolutely great with children (as is our current cairn) but they are feisty little creatures.

I have a lab and a cairn and the cairn is by far the more spirited of the two. She is much more talkative - yes, she can be yappy but she also talks to other dogs and is much more assertive than the lab (but never aggressive). They're just very different.

Viv


----------



## Briarose

Zebedee said:


> nickpl said:
> 
> 
> 
> A command to your dog is just that, it's not a request. Any time time you give a dog a command it has to be followed through, no exceptions. A dog is a pack animal. In a pack a subordinate dog will not disobey the pack leader, dogs have to understand their position in the pack i.e. the family environment and understand they are subordinate. All training, interaction etc has to be based around this.....
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't agree more Nick, but nobody has told our Gracie that! 8O :roll:
> 
> As you can see from my earlier posts, she is very subservient and totally obedient . . . until she is distracted by something she wants to investigate, usually either a whiff of vermin or kids in the distance.
> 
> At home if I raise my voice she instantly rolls on her back and exposes her belly, and that's the classic submission posture to the pack leader (or hierarchical superior).
> 
> None of this cures her deafness however when she sets off on a "mission". :roll:
Click to expand...

 Hi at the risk of being attacked LOL as you know I too have two Welshies...............now the girl I do let her off her lead when I feel it safe to do so, and no problem but like you with the boy I know that if he got a whiff of something the nose goes to the ground and he would be gone.........do I risk him being gone or have a long lead on which he runs and enjoys himself, right now we are looking to see if we can rent a piece of land that can be fenced so that he can run free, other than in our garden.

He has a good life and like I said before is no trouble at all (no other typical terrier traits) I have spent some time discussin this with Welshie breeders and one that has bred for years has told me not to let him off the lead...........another said he has had lots of welshies over the years and some he would let off a lead and others not even consider it. So that is where I am at right now with one that can be let off no problem and one that I wouldn't at this moment in time.

Oh and by the way one is me little girl and the other is me big boy :wink:

Right now they are charging around in a wonderful game of who can catch who :wink:


----------



## maggielou

hi Briarose,

all dogs have the right to run free, have fun and explore and all owners enjoy walking out with their dogs knowning they are free but under control.

All dogs can be trained but its up to the owners to put the time and effort in.

Its simple, not particularly time consuming, mostly fun and the benefits are huge.

Trained dogs focus on their owner and seldom go more than 30 or 40 yards away by their own choice.

Its common sense. No big secrets or magic methods.

When your dog is acting in an unacceptable way ask yourself would I allow a 3 year old child to do that. If the answer is no then ask yourself what would I do about it if it was a child and therein lies most of the answers.


----------



## Briarose

maggielou said:


> hi Briarose,
> 
> all dogs have the right to run free, have fun and explore and all owners enjoy walking out with their dogs knowning they are free but under control.
> 
> All dogs can be trained but its up to the owners to put the time and effort in.
> 
> Its simple, not particularly time consuming, mostly fun and the benefits are huge.
> 
> Trained dogs focus on their owner and seldom go more than 30 or 40 yards away by their own choice.
> 
> Its common sense. No big secrets or magic methods.
> 
> When your dog is acting in an unacceptable way ask yourself would I allow a 3 year old child to do that. If the answer is no then ask yourself what would I do about it if it was a child and therein lies most of the answers.


 Hi no I wouldn't let a child and I guess it is the Welshie breeders themselves that have given me the information which in turn makes me so worried to actually risk losing him...........I couldn't bear that. One lady in Derbyshire has worked with and bred Welshies for years and she was adamant about not letting him off, which to be honest put the fear of god into me...........I also spoke to the place Rolo was originally from and the guy has Rolo's Mum and Grandmother he said he only lets both of them off when 100 per cent sure that there are no distractions in the field by his house.

I can see a huge difference in my two and as I say the girl runs after us no problem...............I wouldn't forgive myself if anything happened to him.


----------



## maggielou

hi
I understand your reservations but please consider these breeders breed dogs and this is their focus and objective. They do not train dogs.

Rolo is probably past the age where unconfined training is a viable proposition but with a little time and effort he can be trained in your garden

Then the training completed in the garden can be transferred to the outside, initially on a flexi lead gradually progressing to freedom.

Your relationship with both dogs would intensify 100% and you would eventually all enjoy the freedom.

My dogs are never on a lead unless regulations dictate.

You can do it. Read the post to dave and ask him to send you a copy of the PM

You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.


----------



## Briarose

maggielou said:


> hi
> I understand your reservations but please consider these breeders breed dogs and this is their focus and objective. They do not train dogs.
> 
> Rolo is probably past the age where unconfined training is a viable proposition but with a little time and effort he can be trained in your garden
> 
> Then the training completed in the garden can be transferred to the outside, initially on a flexi lead gradually progressing to freedom.
> 
> Your relationship with both dogs would intensify 100% and you would eventually all enjoy the freedom.
> 
> My dogs are never on a lead unless regulations dictate.
> 
> You can do it. Read the post to dave and ask him to send you a copy of the PM
> 
> You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.


 Hi I will thanks Rolo was two last Feb. Just to add my Son and I did have him off on the beach a while ago, but there wasn't a soul or dog in sight.


----------



## 101723

Guess which dog I would recommend ?

Terrier


----------



## 106863

HI WE hadtwo brother JACK RUSSELS one was 15 when past away his BROTHER died last year nearly 18 year old,temprement was excellent it how you love them and rear them you can get a bad one in any dog ,but must say they were the best dogs we had if i was going to have another it would be a JACK RUSSEL.if you teach them young like any animal they will love being bathed.


----------



## 110100

*Warning - Jack Russell's*

As dog lovers and owners of a fabulous parson's jack russell, please be warned of an inherent problem in their eyes. If your JR ever has the slightest reddening of the whites of the eye, or the eyeball looks a bit bulging GO TO THE VET. They have a history of glaucoma, which in dogs can be way worse than in people. 
Don't let this put you off, just keep it in mind.
Our JR loves a bath and even heads for a really smelly mess so he can have the bath as he loves having a fight with the towel afterwards! :roll:


----------



## CaGreg

Until about ten years ago, Jack Russell's were at the bottom of my list of 'dogs that I like', having been 'snapped in the back(side)' on two different occasions. Then one day I met Hanna, a little rescue JR. She was spending a couple of weeks with my friend, as her friend who ran a dog shelter was ill.

She was friendly, quiet and obviously the runt of her litter, and I fell in love with her. Just shows that you have no control over who you fall in love with!!

She came to live with us for a trial of two weeks, to the horror of my husband! She is everything that anybody could want in a dog.

I have never heard her growl, though she does bark at the 'phantoms' at the bottom of the garden. She never barks at anybody who comes to the door, and has a very calming effect on other dogs. She has been dressed up, pushed around in dollies pushchairs, had her nails painted, gone to school for a day, been in the pub beyond closing time on several occasions, and is known by everybody in our village.
We have been so lucky to have her in our family... and realise that not all JR dogs are the same, she certainly is different!


----------



## Telshador

Pollydoodle said:


> ... It is probably the owners that need training :lol: ...


We had a short-legged broken coated Jack Russell and she was a lovely little dog, she was so well behaved. IMHO there are very few dogs that cannot be trained to behave properly, regardless of the breed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of inconsiderate dog owners who THINK that their dogs are properly trained and who do not / can not keep them under proper control - even when they are on a lead.

When looking for a new dog, go for ones with parents that have good temperament: it's no guarantee that the pups will be as good but it increases your chances of getting g good one


----------



## patp

And make sure they are bred in the house so that they are used to being handled from a very young age. Recent research says that characters are being formed as early as 3 weeks of age!

Get the little darling home as soon as you can and then Socialise, Socialise, Socialise! (remember that they can, and should, mix with vaccinated dogs)

Saw a wonderful thing recently. A puppy (not fully vaccinated yet) safely ensconced in a small travel crate outside a cafe in Cheltenham. Turned out the owner had had a poorly socialised dog before and was taking no chances with this one. Brilliant idea!

Pat


----------



## annetony

We have had 2 Jack Russell cross over the years, our first one Skip was crossed with a Cairn, she was a lovely dog although she destroyed my new lino in the kitchen, a chair and countless socks-- she was brilliant with the children and a brave little dog---

we have a Jack russel cross Lancashire Heeler now He is also a brilliant dog, Rusty was nearly 2 when we got him, he only has 3 legs now (argument with a security van) and is nearly 18 years old, he has been a pleasure to have

we have also had inbetween a King Charles Cavelier, I am sure Bruno thought he was a Jack Russsell as he had all the traits listed on here, destroying my house, escaping from the garden, chasing a German Shepherd down the road, and woe betide it if you tried to take anything off him, you risked comeing away with no fingers :lol: :lol: :lol: 

We now have another King Charles, she is totally different than Bruno, Tizzie has only made a couple of attempts to chew shoes, she is brilliant with my Grandchildren, not an houdidni like the others, loves playing ball and teases the cat-- she has a sense of humour and is very loving

next door has 2 Jack Russels and they are lovely and obedient, really cute dogs, 

All I am trying to say is that all dogs have their own character not the breeds---would I have a Jack Russell- Absolutely yes or any other breed for that matter--if we and the dog like each other   

Anne


----------



## IANMORGAN

*JR,S*








THEY DONT MUCH LIKE LYING ON COLD GROUND.
A HUSKY MAKES A NICE SOFT CUSSION


----------

