# Frozen pipes!



## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

A couple of days ago, when we got the weather warning, Hubby said that we had better empty the water tanks on the motorhome. I agreed. Two days later and the Autosleeper is draped in white like an iced Christmas cake and we thought - we had better empty the water tanks!

Of course, the taps produced no water when turned on and the outside drain pipe didn't produce any water either. :roll: 

I know this being our first winter with the 'van is no excuse for our silliness but what do we do now? Hubby has read the manual and come across a Carver water isolator thingy, which of course is rather like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, even if we knew where the stable door was.

We will be heading off to the father-in-law's driveway on the 27th so running water would be nice. My worst fear is what damage may have been done. A friend said there is also another bit that has to be drained, apart from the fresh and grey water tanks. There is also what was left in the loo. I suppose that will be frozen solid too  

Any ideas?

Autumn


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

If the water pipes have frozen to your taps then Do not try to turn them on
It could damage the plastic internals
First job is to get some heat in the van and slowly defrost,
Then start opening taps, and bungs for draining down

When you have defrosted and drained every thing down, leave the taps open if they are mixer taps leave them open in the mid position Hot/cold

Things to drain down 

Fresh water tank
Boiler
Toilet flush tank
Toilet cassette
Open all taps
turn pump off

Alan H


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

IMHO :wink: :wink:

I don't think the tanks will be damaged unless they were full to the brim, ice itself is not the problem, it's the expansion when in confined places IE a heater, pump, or a tap, if the ice can move along a pipe it will not cause any problem until it can't move any more then it breaks something.

Can you get a hot water bottle around the taps, if yes (including the drain taps) then get them as warm as poss, and then drain them and leave them open, if you have a small electric heater and can get power to it, put it close to the water heater and let it thaw out, but don't put it near flammable furnishings or wood etc.

Pumps tend to suffer the easiest, and ours cost £70 to replace last year when we forgot too, no other damage was caused, that's not to say there couldn't have been, but like you, it only froze one night, longer and it could have got very expensive.

Kev.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yup. Get as much sustained heat in there as you can and hope for a thaw next week, otherwise you will still be struggling to recover come the 27th.

Damage wise you can but hope for the moment, because you cannot assess until you know EVERYTHING has thawed. Some out-of-the-way pipes can take forever, ONCE frozen.

Dave


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## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks Alan. So far I think we have done most things wrong!

Do you mean the sink taps or the outside taps shouldn't be turned on?
We now do not know if the outside tap is on or off, as it swivels round.
We have turned off the pump and the inside taps.
We did consider leaving a low heater bar in the 'van but as the drainage systmes are external we didn't think this would help.
I don't think we have a boiler.

Autumn


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## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

Just caught up with the other replies. Thanks all.

We are now off again in our wellies to heat up the 'van.

I want a lovely white Christmas but not if me pipes stay frozen 8O 

Autumn


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## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

. . . Hubby just had another thought. Would it help to put the water heater on or is it better to let it thaw out slowly? 

Autumn


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

We have just had this problem due to going to Renault and us forgetting it had some water in it! it doesn't seem to have dumped anything but one night on low heat has solved the problem - no leaks thankfully.

Daft question but this van is new to us for a winter season - other Hymer was a lot less complicated. How do you leave the taps open as won't the pump be going all the time?

I know its probably naff question. We never seemed to have to do that with the Hymler.

Greenie :lol:


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Switch the pump off, greenie.

As to the water heater, Autumn, the important thing is to prevent any further freezing. If you think putting the heater on will help in this regard, fine. But it probably won't make any difference. Get the van comfortably warm right through and let it soak. Open cupboards and doors where pipes might be, or behind them.

Dave


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

greenasthegrass said:


> We have just had this problem due to going to Renault and us forgetting it had some water in it! it doesn't seem to have dumped anything but one night on low heat has solved the problem - no leaks thankfully.
> 
> Daft question but this van is new to us for a winter season - other Hymer was a lot less complicated. How do you leave the taps open as won't the pump be going all the time?
> 
> ...


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

Aye Spacerunner! much as like Deadlegs Neenar miss the Hymler for simplicity and never ailing a thing - this one leaves a lot to be desired. Wouldn't trust it going skiing the combi boiler seems to be very temperamental and that's no good if its -20 outside!

Other niggles are quite annoying amount of gas it goes through too is amazing. There is no noticeable pump switch but Drew is getting manuals out as we speak least they are in English this time.

You live and learn don't you Autumn? lol :lol: 8O 

Grrrreenie :lol:


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

With our 2007 Hymer you could not turn the water pump off. The only way you could leave the taps on was to leave the control panel switched off or disconnect the multi plug that went to the pump.


Richard...


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## greenasthegrass (Oct 27, 2007)

ahhhh thanks Richard - we never had to drain down the Hymler as used it too much in winter. This one has been off the road since end of October. Think its very much the same you can turn off the control panel everything stops so we assume it is the same.

DABS just told me to RTFM - he rude bugger and needs a smack with me spade.

Greenie :lol:


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## vanny (Feb 23, 2009)

Kinda in the same vein, due to the cold I have left our heating running at a low temp. Should this be enough to prevent any probs?

Ta


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Autumn said:


> Thanks Alan. So far I think we have done most things wrong!
> 
> Do you mean the sink taps or the outside taps shouldn't be turned on?
> We now do not know if the outside tap is on or off, as it swivels round.
> ...


Sorry Autumn, its my sloppy English
I meant the Taps inside the Motorhome, and when I said Boiler, I meant the water heater
I would not turn on the Water heating until You are sure everything is defrosted 
Also As others have mentioned Keep your Water pump off until everything has defrosted
Others may offer advice on the waste water tank, but I think the trick is to leave the emptying valve open and collect the waste water in a bucket and empty regular

Alan H


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

RichardnGill said:


> With our 2007 Hymer you could not turn the water pump off. The only way you could leave the taps on was to leave the control panel switched off or disconnect the multi plug that went to the pump.
> 
> Richard...


Hi Richard,

It's the same as our 99 Hymer, ie, 12v isolation switch off, taps open, boiler and water tank drained, pipe drain valves opened, etc. :wink:

Jock.


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Frozen pipes*

At night time, during the winter, I tip a cup of salty water down the sinks.

R


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

That is a good idea Russell, 

We are away next week in our van and it will be the first very cold winter trip in this van, so I will see how we get on. 

It was fine in November at -1, but these -8 temps at the moment will be a good test.


Richard...


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I used to have a static caravan (not a tourer), the site owner always made sure that their rental vans were totally drained down, water input off, all taps wide open, all sink/shower/bath plugs wrapped around a tap etc, all power turned off.

Basically make it impossible for anything to leak or run, and just in case it does provide a means of escape, one further tip a little Vaseline or similar on the window seals, and under the wipers, turn off the gas.

When you return, DO NOT turn on the electric, Fill the water tank first, check for leaks in and under the MH, if it's dry, turn on the power, leave all taps open, and power up the pump, keep checking in and under, onlt turn a tap off once it's flowing both from the hot side and the cold (it won't run hot obviously)

I don't like to run ours for more than 1 minute when we're re-starting the water system, as there may be a problem with the pump not having anything to pump for some reason, there's not too much you can do about that, except hope and try again after a couple of minutes.

You should hear spluttering from one of the taps even if you see no water, just be patient and with luck no probs will show up, broken parts aren't too much of a problem so long as it's not the water heater/boiler (most will have one or t'other) it is very much a play it by ear, and all MH's are different, but draining down is a must in all for this time of year unless it has a heated set up and even then things can fail, so if it has no water in it it can't leak.

But the roof could always fail, or a sky light, or a meteor could land on it or a tree branch. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is of course not fool proof, but it will stop 99.9% of any winter probs, a frost heater will help, but will cost and you'll need elecktrickery adjacent to the MH, or plug in to a lamp post ala Del Boy.

We also remove all clothing, bedding towels etc, as they only help to make it feel damp, give the fridge a good clean and use an antibacterial spray, before leaving it wedged completely open, put something to stop the freezer bit fully closing, check the dates on any food not consumed, you paid for it, you may as well eat it, do not leave any opened food containers for more than 1 month.

Basic common sense all, but easily over looked. :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Kev


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks Kev-n-Liz

As you said common sense but it's good to see it written down and you can use it almost as a check list.

We have a void under the wardrobe, over the wheel arch. I've noticed it gets very cold even when we're on EHU. Can anyone see a reason why we cannot fill this area with polystyrene pieces/shapes or other insulation. There are heating ducts, hot/cold water pipes and the electric supply comes in here. 
We have drained down the system at present and have a 750 oil filled radiator in but thinking of future use.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

After draining everything, I turn off the 12v supply and open the taps as suggested. I put some antifreeze in the drains and the toliet tank and on top of the toilet valve. Last winter before I learned this the trap under the bath sink froze, it thawed out and was fine, but the valve in the toilet froze from the little water left in it and when I unsuspectingly opened it, it broke causing me to have to buy a whole new tank.

If you are just parking for a few days why not just leave the heater on very low. That's what we do the night before taking a trip.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Fast thawing causes the ice to expand and burst the pipes. So you need to thaw it slowly. I cant think the best way to do it though.

As a student I did an experiment on a frozen copper pipe. I put a hot water bottle over it,within minutes the pipe split, so I know that direct heat to the pipes should be avoided.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Jezport said:


> Fast thawing causes the ice to expand and burst the pipes. So you need to thaw it slowly. I cant think the best way to do it though.
> 
> As a student I did an experiment on a frozen copper pipe. I put a hot water bottle over it,within minutes the pipe split, so I know that direct heat to the pipes should be avoided.


I saw someone do that on TV science prog once, they concluded that because the thawed section decreased in volume internally, the ice could then expand and cause a split in a pipe, but it sounded like BS to me, but I know nothing of science, so it could be either. :roll: :roll:

Kev.


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Jezport said:
> 
> 
> > Fast thawing causes the ice to expand and burst the pipes. So you need to thaw it slowly. I cant think the best way to do it though.
> ...


I have seen it with my own eyes, the pipe splits believe me, or try it yer sen.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Jezport said:


> Kev_n_Liz said:
> 
> 
> > Jezport said:
> ...


Please read my post again, I didn't dispute your post Jezport, I supported it by saying I'd seen it too :roll: :roll:

I said the explanation on TV sounded like BS

Kev.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

HI Jezport, unfortunately you are totally wrong, water expands when freezing, thus bursting pipes these bursts are only seen when thawing and the water starts to run, THIS is a Fact. Many people believe as you,
but many years in the trade when we had real winters proved this,we have taken out 100s of feet of frozen pipe full of splits to prevent any damage to property.
As to someone said put on heater if frozen, this is the last thing one should do, it has been known for the roof of a house to be lifted when someone did this as the vents were frozen and when the water got hot 
the cyl exploded, the same could happen in a motorhome.


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

Right - that's the blowtorch out then? nfire:


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## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

Many thanks all. I wish I had asked this question before the temperature plummeted! I have read out all the posts to the hubby who is nodding with each common sense revelation. The salt idea is good Kev.

We have switched everything to off and have a heater on low inside the 'van. Now it's fingers crossed that no damage has been done.

Autumn


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## Autumn (Jul 9, 2006)

Sorry, meant to thank R for the salt idea, but but have thanked Kev too!!

Autumn


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## foll-de-roll (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi,

I have used a hairdryer on my household pipes and M/H ones.

You must take it gently though, and move the dryer up and down the area you suspect is frozen.


Cheers Andy


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## icer (Dec 11, 2006)

Autumn

Have read post and can see no reference to the automatic dump valve that protects the water heater if internal temperature gets too low. Check you manual to see if you have one on your motorhome. If it has been triggered you may have to reset before you refill with water.

Ian


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## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I would not want to put salt through the waste tank, as some level sensors are tempremental at best, and as salt is corrosive I wouldnt resist it. If you want to stop the waste traps freezing add some screenwash additive.


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