# Autosleeper Dangerous misinformation on tyre pressures.



## maggielou

Hi,

Below is a letter that I have emailed to Tyresafe.org and MMM. This resulted from two articles that I read in this month's MMM regarding tyre pressures.

Surely it must be a dangerous practice for Autosleeper/Peugeot to state tyre pressures on the driver's door lable that are signifigantly different than the pressure quoted by the tyre manufacturer, and stamped on the tyre.

Please could anyone advise what the tyre pressures on my vheicle should be.

I bought a motorhome at the end of May this year. It is an Autosleeper Marqis Dorset on a Peugeot Boxer, 290LX MWB 2.2 HDI base. (Panel Van Conversion) Manufactured in Sept.2005. At the point of pruchase the vehicle had done 11000 miles.

The tyres are the original ones Continental Vanco 215/70R C15. I checked the lable on the door frame when I first when to check the tyre pressures. The lable read "Tyres 215/70R : Pressure 
72.5 PSI. The pressure stated on the actual tyres is 65 psi. The vehicle has now completed 13800 miles and I have maintained the pressure at 72.5 psi as instructed by the lable..

Today I read two articles in MMM magazine By Mr. Morrell Marson and Martin Davis questioning the information on these lables.

In view of these articles I contacted Marquis who originally sold the vehicle and spoke to one of their engineers who advised me that the pressure should be 55 psi front and 60 psi on the rear tyres.

After consulting some additional information this engineer further advised me that Autosleeper recommend 70 psi

I cannot find the table that assists in working out the correct tyre pressures for individual vehicles on your web site

There is no information in the Peugeot handbook at all regarding tyres. No sizes, no pressures, nothing except a paragraph that reads: Quote: The label C on the driver's door pillar indicates:
The wheel and tyre sizes-the tyre pressure. The tyre pressure must be checked when the tyres are cold at least once a month.

Not only is this very confusing it is highly dangerous and irresponsible on the part of Autosleeper /Peugeot

I can't even find a P Boxer 290LX listed in the handbook so I have given the details for a 290M which I hope will be similar.

Kerb weight 1795, GVW 2900 Payload 1105KG

your urgent advise would be very much appreciated


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## zulurita

Yes I agree it is all very confusing and NOT VERY SATISFACTORY!

I have a similar situation with my Auto-Trail Fiat. One thing on the label by the cab door and another thing on the tyre. Also tyre wall states campers can go higher! The Fiat hand book says 5.5 bar. (way above what is on tyre wall )!

What the correct typre pressure should read, the mind boggles.

The motorhome manufacturers and base vehicle manufacturers should sort this out and give CORRECT tyre pressure for vehicle weight. Taking the guess work out of the situation would be a lot safer.


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## Wizzo

I agree too. It's about time the information was shown properly either in the handbook or on the vehicle itself or preferably both.

My door pillar sticker shows 5.5bar (about 80psi) whereas according to the tyresafe.org publication 'motorhome tyres' my actual tyre pressures should be 49psi front and 51psi rear.

Nobody in their right mind would run a car with tyres inflated by an extra 50% so why is it that the motorhome convertors have not addressed this situation in the last 15 years at least?

JohnW


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## blondy

Its quite simple really, and has been mentioned many times,
Load your M/H to your normal max weight including tanks, passenger etc,
go to your nearest weigh bridge (I go to local scrap yard who I know),
Weigh the front and rear axles separately,
Ring up your tyre manufacturer and speak to tec department,
give your weights,tyre sizes types etc and they will give you a definitive answer to your problem, I've done this with all my M/Hs


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## chrisjrv

Hi,
I think the point is why should you have to go to these extremes? a new car or van comes with a handbook giving the required tyre pressure for differing loads and it should not be up to the individual to have to sort this out,
Regards,
Chris


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## ingram

blondy said:


> Its quite simple really, and has been mentioned many times,
> Load your M/H to your normal max weight including tanks, passenger etc,
> go to your nearest weigh bridge (I go to local scrap yard who I know),
> Weigh the front and rear axles separately,
> Ring up your tyre manufacturer and speak to tec department,
> give your weights,tyre sizes types etc and they will give you a definitive answer to your problem, I've done this with all my M/Hs


If it is that simple, why doesn't it say to do that on the door sticker ................ Eh?

Harvey


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## cabby

No, the point is that there are so many variables about weights and how it is distributed around the vehicles the most sensible thing to do must be to weigh it as already stated.especially as there are different tyres used on different vans.
Weights shown on the door jams are from where it was destined as just a van.
You must make some effort to get the best running costs and comfort for your vehicle.

cabby


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## blondy

Just a thought,
It is important to use your common sense


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## maggielou

Thank you all for your comments.

The fact is that before joining this site Weighting a vehicle would never have occured to me.

Secondly it has never occured to me to question the tyre pressures stated on the pillar lable of the 5/6 cars I have had over the years.
Therefore I had no reason to think that a lable on the van issuing direct instructions would be giving misinformation.

3rd. as my van is a 2 berth PVC it was reasonable to assume that the weight in the habitation area would be approximately similar to the expected weight untilised in a work van., therefore the lable would be correct.

4th The label should not issue direct unequivable instructions when there are various factors to consider. It should simply state that advise must be sought.

5th The MMM article catagorically states that the tyre pressure must not exceed the psi stated on the tyre but this is exactly the situation. Label 72.5 psi Tyre 65 psi

Last must not least I have probably driven 3000 miles over the past 6 months with tyres pressures at least 12psi above the safe amount. In the event of an accident would the insurance company insist that I should have known that the pressure stated on the lable was incorrect. Would they insist that I should have disregarded the lable and used the psi stated on the tyres.

I had hoped that someone from Autosleepers would comment, and perhaps they will.

As Stickey, John & Chris said why can't the MH, convertors,tyre & base vehicle manufactures put their heads together and at least suggest a psi that would be relatively safe.

They are the experts in these matters and its they who should calulate the pressures required, not us, or at least offer a simple table for doing so.

If I calulated the PSI and got it right, in the event of an accident, would my insurance company take my word that the pressures were correct, or would they refer to the instructions on the lable.

If the tyre pressures were 65psi as stated on the tyre, would the insurance company refuse to pay out because the lable said 72.5psi.

Its just a nonsense made worse by the fact that getting somewhere near the correct tyre pressures is dependent on inexpert, inexperienced owners doing calculations of which they have no real knowledge or experience.

My handbook quite clearly says to refer to the lable. Nowhere in the handbook or Autosleeper book does it suggest that their are variables.

Perhaps Peter at JCM could offer his opinion an advise.

Thank you all once again.


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## UncleNorm

Hi Maggielou!

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned that the pressure mentioned on the tyre wall is, quote... "USA maximum tyre inflation pressure. This has no significance in the UK".

When I last closely checked my tyres, the wording included Canada. Apparantly, this wording is required by both North American countries. :roll:

I have just referred to this website:

http://www.yourdriving.co.uk/tips/19/how-to-read-the-information-on-your-tyre-wall/

I'm sorry if it doesn't help.

Personnally, I would return to the previous advice of visiting the weighbridge and contacting the individual tyre manufacturer for more precise pressures.

Oh, yes, it would be nice if the relevant facts were posted somewhere accessible like in the handbook, or on the door pillar.

Merry Christmas!!


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## GerryD

maggielou said:


> As Stickey, John & Chris said why can't the MH, convertors,tyre & base vehicle manufactures put their heads together and at least suggest a psi that would be relatively safe.
> 
> They are the experts in these matters and its they who should calulate the pressures required, not us, or at least offer a simple table for doing so.
> 
> Thank you all once again.


I have not yet seen any evidence to convince me that the converters are experts at anything other than bolting a body to a chassis. Certainly, they give no consideration to weight distribution, which is the most important factor.
In our motorhome, which is built by one of the longest established converters, every heavy item is mounted on one side. For example, battery, water tank, fridge, oven, water heater, toilet and waste tank all on the off side. 
If a converter can do that then they obviously will not be bothered about tyre pressures.
Gerry


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## rayc

Putting the safety to one side what is the legal situation? If you are stopped for a vehicle check what do they check against? You may go to a weighbridge and the tyre manufacturer may give you correct information, but what is the tester going to believe if different from the pressure table on the vehicle?


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## Waggy

I agree the best plan is to weigh the van and then check with the tyre manufacturers.

However when I did this with my last van Michelin were happy to give the info over the phone but would not put it in writing :!:


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## spykal

GerryD said:


> In our motorhome, which is built by one of the longest established converters, every heavy item is mounted on one side. For example, battery, water tank, fridge, oven, water heater, toilet and waste tank all on the off side.


Hi Gerry

Our's is a bit like that ....maybe they allowed for my wife in the passenger seat. 

Actually our's is not like that at all ...but it was worth the joke I thought.( ok maybe not :lol: )
Our Autosleeper has centrally mounted tanks, both underslung. The fridge is one side the batteries and water heater the other. The cooker is in the back, again near central so we seem to have a well balanced van. It certainly handles a lot better than many others I have been in, but I do see your point ... and when considering a replacement van I will take note ....thanks.

As to the tyre pressures, the advice already given ...weigh the van then ask the tyre manufacturer is best. I did realise that the sticker in the door opening was just a general sticker put there by the vehicle manufacturer but as we have seen it would be easy to assume it applies to the conversion... I wonder why they don't just remove the sticker before releasing the converted van. They could even cover it with a sticker showing the correct pressures..... nah that's too simple :roll:

Mike


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## maggielou

Hi Norm

Thanks for your help and the link. Even more confused now because I dont understand why MMM should state that the psi on the tyre wall should not be exceeded if it has no relevance.

Anyway got a number for continental tyres so I will contact them. Then in the new year I will do the weighbridge thing.

Thanks again to everyone for all their help.
Maggie


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## Autoquest

My Peugeot has a max load of 3000kg, 1650 on the rear axle and 1600 on the front - The front door sticker as applied by Peugeot reads 57.8 psi.

Weight is weight and load is load - What is the difference between a builder loading his panel van up or a converter sticking his load on the back?

Since my van is nearly always at 'max permitted load' I stick to the door sticker, as indeed will the police when they start their trawl for the guilty party...


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## RichardnGill

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned that the pressure mentioned on the tyre wall is, quote... "USA maximum tyre inflation pressure. This has no significance in the UK".


> As said by Norman this is correct and the pressure is not the maximum the tyre can take it is just a referance to the pressure the tyre is recommended to be at a given weight.
> 
> Best get it weight and get the tyre manufacture to calculate the correct pressure based on the vehicle being fully loaded.
> 
> You would have no problems legally with the pressures recommended by either the tyre manufacture of vehicle supplier. As both should be perfectly safe even if they are diffrant and VOSA would have no problem with this.
> 
> Richard...


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## homenaway

Just to add another twist

The door pillar label on our 2000 Autosleeper Symbol (Peugeot Boxer 270M MWB chassis 3250kg GVW states 43psi front and rear:? 

The Boxer handbook has a chart on the rear page for different models listing :
270 C/CS at 3bar 44psi front and rear
320 M at 4.1bar 59psi Front, 4.5bar 65psi Rear
350MH 4.5bar 65psi front and rear


I don't recall the Autosleeper handbook mentioning tyre pressures.

After talking to a tyre fitter at the local Peugeot dealer's I run my Conti Vanco-8's at 51psi - any higher and the back end bounces around too much. 

The table in the Conti brochure has a max pressure of 4.5bar 65psi at 1800kg axle load for Conti-8 195/70 15C 104102 tyres

I have also confirmed that my van is definitely a 270M on the Peugeot database

Steve


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## haylingchrist

Maggie,

I know the situation seems daft, but under inflated tyres tend to blow out whereas over inflated ones just wear out in the middle (and grip a bit less). Given the weight of a van can vary widely all the manufacturer can do is recommend a pressure which will be safe at the anticipated maximum weight (not forgetting likely overloading). 

The only way to get correct pressures is to weigh the van as others have said.

I believe the legislation refers to the 'manufacturer's recommended pressure'. It doesn't specify the manufacturer of what: conversion, base van, tyre, bicycle attached the the rear carrier...

Hope this helps.

Chris


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## maggielou

Thanks. I'll do the weight thing after xmas. In the meantime I will reduce the pressure to 55 psi front and 60 psi rear as recommended by Autosleeper, as these seem reasonable.

Thanks again Maggie


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## Nauplia

*A complex subject*

When I first started motorhoming, I did worry somewhat about the apparent conflicts re tyre pressures. Now like many of the others in the string of post's preceding this one, I take a more relaxed view.

I have weighed my current van on a VOSA axle weigher and even when fully laden for a trip to France - full fuel load, full fresh water load and all the other kit that gets packed for 3 weeks in the sun, including driver and passenger - I am inside both the axle weights and the gross weight. I contacted Michelin via e-mail with all of the details and they recommend 60 psi, front and rear.

I was originally using 72 psi as recommended by Swift and thought that the 12 psi drop would make a 'comfort' difference but, quite frankly, there was no discernable drop in the annoying rattles on certain surfaces. What I do now is to run at 60 psi in Blighty and add an extra 10 psi for the long hot days on the autoroutes in southern France. My logic is that the extra psi will reduce the tyre wall flex slightly and therefore help the tyres to run a little cooler.

What about roadside enforcement? Well, my information is that VOSA do not check tyre pressures. They would visually check inflation and should a tyre be obviously underinflated they may point this out to the driver. If a tyre were so obviously underinflated that it was an immediate danger they may issue a prohibition, but regards getting out a gauge to check the difference between 50 psi and 70 psi - no. There would be technical difficulties anyway because of temperature effects on the recorded pressure, and if we have to write to Michelin or Continental for the 'correct' pressure then so would VOSA - or they would risk a hefty compensation claim.

I think it is good that everyone is aware of tyre pressures and that should lead to them being checked regularly. What also should become habit is to check your tyres for cuts and bulges - both the inside and the outside. Obviously avoid kerbing them also. Modern day tyres, especially those designed for motorhomes, have a tremendous reserve of strength inbuilt into them.


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## Spacerunner

NB

After you have done the weighbridge thing its worth emailing the tyre manufacturers with the results. They then email their recommendations back to you. Just print it out and then you have a hard copy to show anyone interested (plod) in your tyre pressures.


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## maggielou

Thank you Nauplia. This is a clear and sensible explanation that I can relate to and it has certainly put my mind at rest.

I agree, I too found no discernible difference in the comfort/discomfort of the ride after reducing my tyre pressures from 72psi to 60psi.

Thank you again. :lol:


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## vardy

Hello Maggielou!

Happy New Year to you and family. I hope you are keeping well. I've been off line a lot for months now. Family stuff etc.,

I rang the tyre company for advice when I first got the Harmony and pressures were similar to the advice for yours. 65 rear and 55 front.

My local tyre fitter (in the trade for years) said I could vary the front to 50 if it improved the ride - and added that he used to have the same van and 'stuck 50 in all round' to improve rattles. However, being a fusspot, I'll keep to tyre company's recommendation.

Also, isn't there some sort of rule about having steel valves over 70 psi? I wouldn't have a clue what mine are.


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## maggielou

Hi helena,

Nice to see you again. you were missed. Happy new year to you all as well. Knew you had a similar type of van so I was hoping for a reply from you.

Having some family stuff myself at the moment. The people on here are brilliant but just on odd occasions a few forget that things that have been common kowledge to them for upteem years is double dutch to muppets like me.

Many of them had loads of knowledge skill and experience before they even bought their 1st MH so occasionally it may be difficult for them to 
step back far enough to reach the concept of absolutely no knowledge and a total belief in the tyre info. labelled on the van.

For this reason I still say that the manufacturer is issuing misinformation that could be dangerous.

With your confirmation I am now quite happy applying pressures similar to the psi that you quoted. Thanks. Maggie


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## bb46

*Autosleeper tyre pressure misinformation*

Hello, This is my first message though I am an avid reader of the forums. I got this info about tyre pressures which may be of use.
I have a 2008 Autosleeper Symbol 2.2HDI (Peugeot Boxer panel van) max load is 3300kg. The label in the cab states that front tyre pressures should be 59psi and rear 65psi. 
Having read the great advice from all of you knowledgeable Motor Homers on tyres and axle weights I took the van to Warwick Trading Standards dynamic weighbridge (no charge) and emailed the details to Continental. The axle weights I supplied (front 1540-1630 max, rear 1570-1670max) were based on a van ready for travel (lowest weight) and a wine allowance of 190kg(highest weight)! I got a very prompt reply as follows:

Based upon the gross axle weights you kindly supplied please find the suggested tyre pressures.

Front = 51psi, Max axle load carrying capacity is 1,685Kg. (Your gross axle 1,630Kg)
Rear = 51psi, Max axle load carrying capacity is 1,685Kg. (Your gross axle 1,670Kg)

If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Yours sincerely
Paul Ridler
Product Support Engineer

This proves the point already made that it's important to check with the tyre manufacturer and not rely solely on the vehicle manufacturer - even if your MH is a smallish one. Thanks- BB46
PS if I empty the water tank I can fit in another100 bottles....!


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