# Shower problem



## romseytrucker (Jul 27, 2006)

Hi all

We've recently bought a 2007 Swift 580 PR, which we are very pleased with so far. As part of the purchase deal, the dealer agreed to replace the existing shower unit, i.e the extendable hose reel that pulls out when you want to use it as a shower and retracts when you want to use it over the washbasin, for the more modern one. The reason we wanted it replacing was because the original one was one of the 'chrome', corrugated types and was quite difficult to pull out and noisy when you did pull it out whereas the newer ones with the smooth black hose seem easier and quieter to pull out into the shower position. The problem is the new shower doesn't work very well, in fact, it is unusable as a shower because, when you set the shower tap to a mid-range temperature position, you get a few seconds of scalding hot water followed by a few seconds of cold water, then scalding hot, then cold, etc. etc. Also the pressure out of the shower head isn't good enough to give a decent spray of water. Swift weren't very helpful - they just said they wouldn't recommend fitting a shower that wasn't intended for that model of motorhome. The dealer is going to have a look at the problem next week - but I don't have a lot of faith in them to be honest (which is why I haven't named them!) especially as they said they had never come across such a problem before.

The original shower worked fine (apart from the problems mentioned above) - wish we hadn't bothered asking them to replace it! The dealer says he hasn't got the original one any more so can't refit it.

Any ideas? Do pumps on the latest vans, that have these shower fitted as standard, have more power? Would an expansion tank solve the problem - don't want to go down that route unless I am sure it will work.

Regards
RT


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

JT, I can't help you with the technical question but can offer you moral support because such a story outrages me. A 2007 camper no doubt set you back a few bob and the salesman couldn't have been kinder or done more for you when you were a prospective buyer right? Now they don't give a hoot. Typical.

I see it like this: You bought a 2007 camper and they have fit a 2009 shower. THEY, the camper experts installed it, not you. Before it left their workshop they should have tested the shower to ensure it functioned 100% as a shower should before returning it to you. So, my point is that they have failed you and now must put it right. Not have a half hearted Friday afternoon attempt to correct it, not give it to the junior technician to correct but to use their noggins, problem solve and get it fixed for you out of loyalty to you since you helped pay their mortgages when you chose to buy from them.

Try and keep it amicable as you stress this point directly. If all fails drop the vehicle off, hand them the keys and tell them to phone you when it's fixed however long that may be.

Good luck JT.

Shane.....


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Shower*

Hi

Expansion tanks were recently discussed, so if you do a search on the "forum search" page for the word "expansion" that might help.

In respect of the shower, I had a similar problem and this was resolved after turning up the pump. Have a read of your pump manual and check if it can be adjusted by the user, or whether a dealer has to do it.

Russell


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

The problem with the spontaneous temperature variations is a well know one in motorhomes and is caused by the unavoidable design of the system. Unlike the water system in your house, both the hot water and the cold water in a motorhome is provided by a common source, ie the tank, and the pressure is also maintained by the same pump. You will appreciate therefore that there has to be a 'Y' junction somewhere in your motorhome plumbing, after the pump. The temperature fluctuations are caused by the 'fluttering' (for want of a better word!) of the water between the two outlets when it comes to the junction. 

Speaking for myself, I find the problem resolved by dialling up the required shower temperature on the thermostat (well before I want a shower!) and then use the mixer-tap on full hot.

It's difficult to address your other problem of apparent lack of pressure with just the info you have given, but offhand I cannot see how the simple replacement of a shower head should, or could, affect this. Perhaps your dealer has inadvertently introduced a restriction in the plumbing somewhere - such as a kinked supply pipe? Does the shower perform the same way on both full-cold and full-hot settings?


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

Simplelife said:


> JT, I can't help you with the technical question but can offer you moral support because such a story outrages me. A 2007 camper no doubt set you back a few bob and the salesman couldn't have been kinder or done more for you when you were a prospective buyer right? Now they don't give a hoot. Typical.
> 
> I see it like this: You bought a 2007 camper and they have fit a 2009 shower. THEY, the camper experts installed it, not you. Before it left their workshop they should have tested the shower to ensure it functioned 100% as a shower should before returning it to you. So, my point is that they have failed you and now must put it right. Not have a half hearted Friday afternoon attempt to correct it, not give it to the junior technician to correct but to use their noggins, problem solve and get it fixed for you out of loyalty to you since you helped pay their mortgages when you chose to buy from them.
> 
> ...


Dear 'Outraged'

I think your reply is totally out of proportion. There's enough aggression in this world without your contribution which is FAR from positive anyway. The fact is that the vehicle WAS modified from its original specification at the request of the new owner in the first place - and in the second place is the fact that the dealer IS going to have a look at it next week. I am quite sure that the dealer was as surprised as anyone to find this problem has come about after the apparently simple replacement of the shower head. The way you're going on I expect you expected the dealer to take a shower in it after the work, just to make sure!

If this seemingly innocuous problem 'outrages' you enough to post such an unnecessarily aggressive message, then God help anyone who upsets you on the road! Remind me to keep out of your way! And as far as your advice to 'keep it amicable' is concerned, I can see just how YOU would keep it amicable ..... :evil: !!


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Shower head*

Hi

Back to the original post, did the dealer replace the shower head or did they use the existing one? Difference shower heads have different holes etc and from my experiments and experiences, this too can affect the performance of the shower.

Also, did they shower actually perform OK before the new shower head etc was fitted, or did you never see the shower performing prior to the new shower being fitted?

Russell


----------



## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi RT,

Without knowing exactly what the replacement shower was / is, and which pump you have fitted, its difficult to comment, however, if you PM me you VIN, I'll look into it on Tuesday.

There are a few things you / your dealer should check:

1) Make sure the pressure setting on you pump (if its a Flo-Jet) or the accumulator pressure setting (if its a Shur-Flo) is set correctly.

2) If the shower head is the problem, you maybe able to change the head alone to a new Trigger Style (Part Number : 1086483), but again, depending on which style of shower / tap you have fitted, this may not be possible.

3) Finally, if you have a Flo-Jet pump, then fitting an surge damper may help (Part number 1088201 = Surge Damper, 1088202 = Bracket).

Obviously, it difficult to comment without knowing the full details, but these should give your dealer an idea of the direction to look.

Thanks,

Ash


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: Shower head*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> Back to the original post, did the dealer replace the shower head or did they use the existing one? Difference shower heads have different holes etc and from my experiments and experiences, this too can affect the performance of the shower.
> Also, did they shower actually perform OK before the new shower head etc was fitted, or did you never see the shower performing prior to the new shower being fitted?
> Russell


I agree with Russell on that one, also if the mixer valve was changed as well, there is a chance that it could be faulty.

Leisure vehicles/boats water supply systems are no different to house domestic, there is a common cold water supply which is pressurised (house on mains, leisure by pump) which is then fed (a) to cold and (b) into hot water tank and then from both to their respective outlets.

Temperature at outlet is controlled by a mixer tap in the case of a shower.

Peter


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks Ash and Peter on behalf of the forum.   

It really doesn't seem like the outrage was necessary to get your usual helpful responses. Your expert and technically informative advice is always very welcome. :wink: 

On a Bank Holiday Sunday as well - that's devotion above and beyond the call of duty!! :wink:   

Please accept a gold star each!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Zeb


----------



## 116388 (Sep 6, 2008)

time-traveller said:


> Dear 'Outraged'
> 
> I think your reply is totally out of proportion. There's enough aggression in this world without your contribution which is FAR from positive anyway. The fact is that the vehicle WAS modified from its original specification at the request of the new owner in the first place - and in the second place is the fact that the dealer IS going to have a look at it next week. I am quite sure that the dealer was as surprised as anyone to find this problem has come about after the apparently simple replacement of the shower head. The way you're going on I expect you expected the dealer to take a shower in it after the work, just to make sure!
> 
> If this seemingly innocuous problem 'outrages' you enough to post such an unnecessarily aggressive message, then God help anyone who upsets you on the road! Remind me to keep out of your way! And as far as your advice to 'keep it amicable' is concerned, I can see just how YOU would keep it amicable ..... :evil: !!


Can you really time travel? I've got a suggestion you won't like! :lol:

Looks like two of use are outraged, you've even got a little outrage smiley to prove it! And there was me thinking (after having read it somewhere) that there was enough aggression in this world already!

.... and no need to be reminded to keep out of my way, in fact if I ever meet you I'll give you a big squeezy hug and a hetero brotherly kiss, you'll feel much better then! :lol: Falling in love with me is an option but not advisable!

Back on topic: Further to my earlier suggestion regarding the matter at hand, if the shower is not fixed to your expectations may I suggest holding their family hostage, not to be released until work is carried out properly?* It works you know.** And finally...***

Shane.....

Notes:

* Just a joke, not actually a good idea. :roll: 
** I can't guarantee this, bloke might want rid of his family anyway.
*** I like pies.


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Simplelife said:


> And there was me thinking (after having read it somewhere) that there was enough aggression in this world already!


Indeed there is, and your comment presents the perfect opportunity to drop in a gentle reminder to all members that we do not tolerate excessive aggression on MHF. :wink: 8O

This is the "_Friendly Forum_", and it's going to stay that way!! 

Have a great Bank Holiday break everyone!!   

Zebedee
Moderating Team


----------



## romseytrucker (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks to everyone for their replies. In particular, thanks to Ash - you've restored my faith in Swift (not that I had completely lost faith in them. This is our 2nd Swift motorhome and we have always had a good response from them in the past so it was a little disappointing to get a 'sorry, can't help you' reaction when I rang them recently about this problem). It says a lot for a company when one of its employees takes a proactive approach to a customer's problems - and, as Zebedee says, on a Bank Holiday Sunday too! I'll PM my details to you shortly, Ash.

A few more details and/or responses to responses: 

a) the shower head was replaced as well
b) the pump is a Shurflo SUK-0227 and I can't see any adjustment/setting on it - nor do I seem to have a manual for it
c) the original shower worked fine - at least I thought so but my wife informs me that there was a slight temperature fluctuation on that too (she's a bit more sensitive than I am, obviously!) - but nothing like as bad as with the new shower.

Regards
RomseyTrucker


----------



## SwiftGroup (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi Romsey,

Glad to offer some assistance, but similar to the response you received from Swift Customer Care, it is difficult to comment / offer help when the replacement part was not part of the original specification.

As I'm sure you can imagine, there are thousands of "after-market" parts available, and we are only able to fully test / evaluate the parts we fit in the factory.

However, having said that, I'm sure we can help. It sounds like an imbalance between the pump and boiler. The pump provides the cold pressure and the boiler provides the hot pressure. If the water systems are not balanced, you may get pulsing (especially if the shower head and tap has been changed, as this is where the hot and cold water mix).

If you have the Shur-flo fitted, then both the pump and the accumulator (black canister next the pump) can be adjusted. Ask your dealer to start with the accumulator, and turn the spindle until the pressure increases (I'm guessing it will be set to around 20PSI, and increasing to 22/24/26 PSI will probably be enough). The pressure can be checked using any tyre pressure gauge, but you only need enough to re-balance the system

If this does not work, then ask your dealer to adjust the pump pressure, but turning the screw on the end, to a maximum of 30 PSI. Again, this may re-balance the system.

Failing that, try a trigger shower head (if this fits into your new shower tap), and see if that helps, as with this (and the tap fully open), the water mixing takes place in the shower hose, which again, can help to balance the system.

By all means, let me know how you get on, and if you need anything else.

Ash


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

One cannot ask more from a trade member than to see the detailed reply from SwiftGroup and Ash. An answer with excellent suggestions as to what to do and the offer to assist further if needed.

Well done Ash, it is good to see a positive and informative post with good specialist advice.

Exactly what I have come to expect from Swift - they always bend over backwards to help!

Dave


----------



## romseytrucker (Jul 27, 2006)

Hi Ash

Amazing service!! Your explanation makes so much sense and instructions are so clear that I am tempted to have a go at adjusting it myself - but as the dealer has provided a warranty with the truck maybe I'll leave it to them and just print out your instructions for him!

Once again thank you for your astonishing service!

Regards
Ralph


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Shower head*



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Shower head*



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


Oops - let's try again ....

Of course there's a difference - you've just said it yourself. Since when has a boat had a header tank to supply the hot water ?


----------



## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: Shower head*



time-traveller said:


> Of course there's a difference - you've just said it yourself. Since when has a boat had a header tank to supply the hot water ?


House: mains water goes to hot water storage tank under pressure either by direct mains or header tank, and a gravity feed which forces hot water out.
Modern domestic heating systems do not have header tanks.

Boat: cold water pump feeds cold water to heater tank where it gets heated and stored and then forced out by pump.

Pump also feeds cold water taps, most boats have an accumalator tank which removes the pump pulses as do many MH's

Peter

Peter


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Shower head*



JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> time-traveller said:
> 
> 
> > Of course there's a difference - you've just said it yourself. Since when has a boat had a header tank to supply the hot water ?
> ...


Well - isn't this what I've been saying? Boat and Motorhome systems ARE different to domestic situations.

As you rightly say in your example above, in a domestic situation the cold water pressure is supplied by the mains pressure and the hot water pressure by gravity, effectively TWO quite different and unassociated sources of supply pressures.

You agree with me then, that on a boat and a motorhome BOTH the hot water AND the cold water pressure is supplied by ONE pump?

That's quite different to a domestic supply, isn't it?

THAT is what I meant by boats (and motorhomes) NOT having header tanks.

I never mentioned an accumulator in my earlier post - however an accumulator does nothing more than 'accumulate' the water pressure to prevent excessive cycling of the pump - or 'pulsing' as you put it. All the boats I've had have had accumulators but not many of my motorhomes have - it's just a sophistication of the system and to all intents and purposes most of them will work just as effectively with or without.


----------



## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

Simplelife said:


> time-traveller said:
> 
> 
> > Dear 'Outraged'
> ...


That's better, Simplelife - now I can TELL you're only joking ...... !


----------



## Pixelpusher (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, for what its worth I have a 2006 Bessacarr E410 (Swift) which has the original shower/tap unit - the corregated hose - and it works just fine as a shower. No fluctuation in temperature and a reasonable flow rate. Never enough water but that's another story 

Colin


----------



## romseytrucker (Jul 27, 2006)

Well, the van was in at the dealer's today for them to have a look at the shower problem. After an hour they said the problem was definitely with the new shower unit - they could not get enough pressure when it was connected but every thing was ok if they connected another (different type) shower. I gave them Ash's instructions but I'm can't say if they followed them. In the end they gave me the choice of refitting the old shower (or at least an identical one because they had previously said they didn't have the old one) or they could order a new one of the newer type. I opted for the former because a) we want a working shower now b) a new one in a few weeks time might still give the same problem as the current new one and c) I want to use my hard-earned annual leave from work for touring in the truck and not sitting in the dealers all morning while they work on it.

So we now have the old (type) shower hose fitted which is a bit difficult to pull out and push back and also a bit noisy when you do so. This all seems to be due to the 'corrugated' hose - which is presumably why the new ones have a smooth hose. But having had a quick look at it tonight I am sure there is something I can do about it to make it run more freely through the tap housing. Maybe it's even possible to get a smooth pipe to fit it - I am sure it doesn't need the complete tap changing.

Anyway, thanks for all your comments/suggestions. Happy trucking!

Regards
Ralph


----------

