# Wheelspin



## nigxls

Anyone get lots of wheelspin on damp roads


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## satis

Hiya nigxls  

Yes i get a bit of wheel spin in the damp,I have the 3litre Autotrail Apache and she slips on pulling away,I just let the clutch slower and then its ok,The 3 litre got plenty of Umph on pull away,Kind regards Satis


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## nigxls

I get it on overtaking too, as I hit the white line 8O


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## PFH

Yep I get wheel spin and also Torque steer. (Since I had the 3.0 litre Renault remapped)


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## nigxls

Not too sure if mine is because of wet roads or excess weight over rear wheels as mine has the rear galley/ WC / fridge etc all at rear.
Getting some understeer also, quite unnerving at times :roll:


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## RichardnGill

How old are your tyres? and what pressure are you running them at?



Richard...


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## GerryD

A lighter right foot will always cure any wheelspin problems.
Gerry


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## GEOMAR

Hi I also get wheelspin on takeoff when wet in my Miami 2.5 150 bhp auto and only covered 6000 mls
GEOMAR :wav:


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## tinkering

"GerryD"]A lighter right foot will always cure any wheelspin problems.
Gerry[/quote]

These young inexperienced drivers ..Gerry :lol:

When in doubt..leave out :wink:

To be serious.. its front wheel drive ie you are pulling the load not pushing it..so gently does it

Les


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## nigxls

80 psi in the tyres and I assume they have been on the van since new, hence 4 yrs old. I do try to accelerate gently, but driving up through mid Wales getting stuck behind horse boxes and lorries sometimes a heavy right foot is needed. I was hoping that I would have a bit more traction in the bends than I have, the understeer is a bit of a worry :roll: .


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## RichardnGill

If the van is 4 years old you might find that the tyres are closer to 6 years old. You would need to check the " DOT " code on them.

The reason I raised this is as tyres get older especially if they have not had a lot of use they get harder and loose some of there flexibility. This is turn would make a difference to the grip they will give. Tyres of 6 years or more are considered to be at the end of there life's.

You might also find that 80 Psi is too high, This would reduce the tyres foot print and again reduce grip.

It might be worth while getting your M/H weight when it is fully loaded and get both axel weight. Then contact the manufacture of the tyres and see what pressure they recommend.

TYRE DOT INFO

Richard...


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## HarleyDave

Thanks Richard

That's an excellent link - which is now on my desktop

Cheers

Dave


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## nigxls

Hi Richard 
Thanks for the info. The tyres were inflated as per cab door sticker, but I'll phone autotrail in the morning to find out more, plus I'll check the date on the tyres.


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## davesport

I'd echo GerryD's comments. 

The throttle works both ways :lol: 

I'll get my coat !

D.


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## Mrplodd

Get your ACTUAL axle weights (visit to weighbridge req) then contact the makers of whatever tyres you have fitted. Tell them the tyre size etc, and the ACTUAL axle loading and ask for their advice on tyre pressures.


I would think 80 is a bit high personally !! If it is too high that would explain both wheelspin and understeer. 

If you are getting THAT much understeer you are going way too fast into the bends !!


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## LongGone

*Re. Wheelspin*

Never had wheel spin on any vehicle from motor bikes to 40' artics except in abnormal conditions, or deliberately induced (I was showing off!). Other wise it usually boils down to a bad driving technique, or worse still, impatience and attempting something that common sense says wait,take your time, better late in this world than early in the next. A few pass me everyday trying to do the latter, and to be honest, I wish them luck. Trouble is they always seem to take some luckless innocents with them. Cheers Bob


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## b16duv

I would echo Richard and Mrplodd's advice about getting it weighed and contacting tyre manufacturer for correct pressures, but also to look at whether there is too much weight on rear axle and not enough on the front.

The picture in your avatar shows your van as being quite 'tail heavy' and light on the front, which would lead to understeer and wheelspin.

You may find that in addition to checking tyre pressures, moving some weight forward will help quite a bit.

HTH

David


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## bikemad99

I think some of your money would be better spent on additional driving instruction. How many have actually had any instruction since passing their driving test? 

Reg.


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## RichardnGill

To be honest with some FWD Motor homes which are heavily loaded to the rear wheel spin can be quiet east to get even in 3rd gear in the wet.

With our van coming out of tight corners it will easily wheel spin even at very low RPM. Our last van on a Tranist was much the same due to being heavy at the rear. Once they are remapped the problem is even more relevant.

It is alright blaming it on the driver but I have been in situations on twisty hills where very careful throttle control is required.

Our last car a Golf 170 BHP TDI, the traction control light would come on some times in 4th gear exeleration up hills. Has anyone had a similar car and never had the traction control come on in the wet?

Better loading and tyre pressures can help a lot. 


Richard...


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## GEOMAR

*wheelspin*

Hi Reg
I am a member of the IAM and still get wheelspin when taking off in the wet on a hill in my renault auto (autotrail miami )
GEOMAR


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## trevorf

80 psi is the maximum recommended pressure. I run my Apache at 65 front 70 rear which seems about right for a moderate load.



Trevor


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## DJP

80psi is way over the top. I would try 60psi fronts and 65psi rear.
Tne 80psi on the tyres is the MAXIMUM pressure for that tyre NOT the recommended pressure.
You could also phone/contact, assuming you have Michelins fitted
Michelin
Customer Service Centre for UK and Ireland 
Campbell Road 
Stoke-on-Trent 
ST4 4EY 
Tel: 0800 591 859 
e-mail: [email protected]

They are very helpful people


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## erneboy

I run mine at 55psi all round. Tyre wear is even the ride is not too harsh and grip is good. Suggest you try 65 and work your way down a bit to see what feels best, Alan.


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## teemyob

*Tyres?*

You are not running on Michelin XC's are you?

I agree, 80psi is very high. Do you have the metal valves?

See my posts regarding tyres by doing a search.

TM


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## LongGone

You can get wheel spin practically any anytime anywhere. (I am 73 and I can get wheelspin in the lower gears on my mountain bike). Commonsense issues of tyre pressure, loading, age, tread depth, weight distribution etc etc, shouldn't really enter the equation. All these apply to any road vehicle and should already be well understood by any self respecting driver. If not then even the worst of the vehicle owners manual reiterates them time and time again so all the information is readily available. One factor I didn't like to mention initially was speed, without any doubt the greatest contributor, and the failure to recognise the fact that you are in a Motorhome, built any old how for pleasure, and not a 170bhp sports car. If the various builders built a vehicle to car standards half our accepted comforts would be in the wrong place, the height would be such that the only comfortable user would be a pygmy, heavy items like microwaves at floor level etc. MH handling is a compromise and should be accepted as such. 
All tyres have the information so often requested moulded into the side of the tyre and I am pretty sure a manufacturer would tell you to take the vehicle, together with a weigh ticket listing the gross and axle(s) weights to your local tyre depot although it's easy enough to work out yourself.


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## teemyob

*Spin*



LongGone said:


> You can get wheel spin practically any anytime anywhere. (I am 73 and I can get wheelspin in the lower gears on my mountain bike). Commonsense issues of tyre pressure, loading, age, tread depth, weight distribution etc etc, shouldn't really enter the equation. All these apply to any road vehicle and should already be well understood by any self respecting driver. If not then even the worst of the vehicle owners manual reiterates them time and time again so all the information is readily available. One factor I didn't like to mention initially was speed, without any doubt the greatest contributor, and the failure to recognise the fact that you are in a Motorhome, built any old how for pleasure, and not a 170bhp sports car. If the various builders built a vehicle to car standards half our accepted comforts would be in the wrong place, the height would be such that the only comfortable user would be a pygmy, heavy items like microwaves at floor level etc. MH handling is a compromise and should be accepted as such.
> All tyres have the information so often requested moulded into the side of the tyre and I am pretty sure a manufacturer would tell you to take the vehicle, together with a weigh ticket listing the gross and axle(s) weights to your local tyre depot although it's easy enough to work out yourself.


Fair comment, but if the FWD motorhome is running on overinflated, hard tyres with poor grip performance, things are going to be a lot worse.


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## nigxls

Wow I wasn't expecting a lecture from some members  . For what it's worth, I have nearly 30 yrs driving experience in cars, bikes and vans. Never have I been involved in or caused an accident, how many of you holier than thou members can say that ? 
Please read the full post before making personal jibes, if you did that you would realise that sometimes it is necessary to accelerate to overtake :wink: Thanks to all of you also who are making helpful suggestions, it is much appreciated.


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## b16duv

LongGone,

It must be great being perfect!

Even when you are wrong  

Any vehicle that is incorrectly loaded, with inappropriate tyre pressures will perform in a manner that is sub-optimal. By correcting these deficiencies simply by altering driving style, you are not only in danger of falling foul of the law, but also of succumbing to the laws of physics and ending up in the ditch if you get it wrong.

Whilst it is possible to induce wheelspin on almost any vehicle, this should not be a regular 'feature' when driving. If it is not induced by driving style, the cause must be identified and rectified. 

The OP has identified the wheelspin as being 'abnormal' and has simply asked for advice from others as to the possible cause. This, in my opinion, is one of the purposes of the forum. Being lectured is not.

Nigxls, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of the problem. 

All the best,

David


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## LongGone

nigxis:: My apologies for upsetting you. I'm at a loss regarding "lecturing". Surely stating a few simple facts, in simple language, should not be taken as such and certainly I made no personal aspersions. I do have to answer a couple of yours and b16duv's though. 
"holier than thou". I have held a full licence since I was 17? and a Class1 HGV since they were introduced I hold a HGV Operators Licence, also since they were introduced (No.WM 009062/2693) 40? years ago. Its run all types of the heavier HGV's (which, having the necessary qualifications, I also maintained) but currently only a 28 ton tipper. And I to have never had an accident (provable) and definitely never caused one. I do read the full posts, I suppose its just depends how you read "sometimes necessary to". The previous may sound boastful but I'm just trying to show I do not speak entirely from ignorance.

b16duv: I'm not perfect, far from it as my wife constantly reminds me.I am reminded of the expression "takes one to know one?" If you read my post you will find we are actually in agreement. Coming to "even though your wrong" I would appreciate knowing what precisely you take exception with and where I am wrong.

The following may be of interest since it illustrates "experience", "speeding" and "conditions". I sent two 28 ton loads of stone (composed of sandstone blocks between 8 to 20 tons each) from my quarry in the Forest of Dean a week ago on HR Greys Transport (2 * 44 ton 40' artics) delivered to Dunaverig, not to far from you (b16duv) in Stirling. I asked the drivers did they have any trouble with the two loads before Christmas and the two after. No, just M6 traffic jams. Remember the snow and ice we had? Seems driving according to conditions etc etc works. The other side of the coin is that a couple of months previous another driver, same firm, goes down a hill to fast and fails to take the bend at the bottom that has a bridge over it!. A few months old 44 ton unit gets written off. He was accident free as well and had lord knows how many miles experience. Here endeth the second lecture. Cheers.

I bookmarked the links below from one of the Moderators post's a while ago, sods law that I can't find the post. http://www.michelintransport.com/ple/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=37&lang=EN 
http://www.michelintransport.com/ple/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=37&lang=EN


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## Dukeham

Hi.
I do not agree that 80 psi is nec to high. My 3ltr 4ton Burstner Aviano tyre pressure are recomended at I think its 5bar + or - 5psi. This equates to approx 80psi.
GC.


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## Bacchus

My understanding is that you follow the tyre pressures recommended for the doner vehicle. This is stated in at least one of the handbooks supplied by AT. I've looked at some recommended tyre pressures for a Ducato and from that I would suggest you start at 60/65psi and see how it goes. 80psi seems very high for a vehicle of that weight. The best way however, is to take the vehicle on to a weigh bridge and weigh the front and back axles and contact the tyre manuacturer. As previously stated they can work it out for you


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## loughrigg

Bacchus said:


> My understanding is that you follow the tyre pressures recommended for the doner vehicle. This is stated in at least one of the handbooks supplied by AT. I've looked at some recommended tyre pressures for a Ducato and from that I would suggest you start at 60/65psi and see how it goes. 80psi seems very high for a vehicle of that weight. The best way however, is to take the vehicle on to a weigh bridge and weigh the front and back axles and contact the manuacturer. As previously stated they can work it out for you


I don't think that is necessarily correct. My understanding is that manufacturer recommended tyre pressures (as often found on door pilllars) are based on the tyre fitted at production.

If those tyres are subsequently changed to ones of different construction, the recommended pressure will be as determined by the manufacturer of the new tyre. If I inflated my current tyres (Vredestein Winter Comtrac - max pressure 65psi at full load) to the pressure on the door pillar (can't remember exactly, but I think it was 78 -80 psi based on a Michelin tyre), the vehicle would probably not handle all that well.

Mike


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## peribro

According to my dealer whom I bought the motorhome from 6 weeks ago, the recommended pressures front and rear are 79.5psi (5.5 bar).


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## Pudsey_Bear

nigxls said:


> Anyone get lots of wheelspin on damp roads


We get it all the time, especially on going up hills, on gravel, ice, grass etc, the trick is to just let the clutch out and then gently gas it, most diesels will pull up a fairly steep hill just by letting out the clutch, with no accelerator at all.

Kev.


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## nigxls

Good answer re 60psi front, 65 rear.
Checked axle weights on weighbridge, spoke to Michelin, tyres are good for another 12 months and above pressures recommended. Now I don't feel every piece of gravel on the road  .


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## Bacchus

loughrigg said:


> Bacchus said:
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that you follow the tyre pressures recommended for the doner vehicle. This is stated in at least one of the handbooks supplied by AT. I've looked at some recommended tyre pressures for a Ducato and from that I would suggest you start at 60/65psi and see how it goes. 80psi seems very high for a vehicle of that weight. The best way however, is to take the vehicle on to a weigh bridge and weigh the front and back axles and contact the manuacturer. As previously stated they can work it out for you
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that is necessarily correct. My understanding is that manufacturer recommended tyre pressures (as often found on door pilllars) are based on the tyre fitted at production.
> 
> If those tyres are subsequently changed to ones of different construction, the recommended pressure will be as determined by the manufacturer of the new tyre. If I inflated my current tyres (Vredestein Winter Comtrac - max pressure 65psi at full load) to the pressure on the door pillar (can't remember exactly, but I think it was 78 -80 psi based on a Michelin tyre), the vehicle would probably not handle all that well.
> 
> Mike
Click to expand...

Actually, I think we are in total agreement - when I said manufacturer I meant tyre manufacturer ~( my omission). It is a little known fact that you can calculate the weight of a vehicle if you know the surface area of the tyre touching the ground and the pressure of the tyre in pounds per Sq inch. You get the weight bearing on each type by dividing the pressure by surface area in sq inches and you add up the weight for each tyre, if you haven't passed out with boredom by then. The obvious implication is that for a given tyre the its pressure is directly linked to the weight it is supporting. By the same token if you contact the tyre supplier with your axle weights they will tell you exactly the required tyre pressure.


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## WildThingsKev

I've just posted on another thread the industry answer to tyre pressures.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-80459-0-days0-orderasc-.html

Kev


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## Bacchus

kevina said:


> I've just posted on another thread the industry answer to tyre pressures.
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-80459-0-days0-orderasc-.html
> 
> Kev


Well done Kev

Chris


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## Spooky_b329

Deleted as once again, I didn't notice the three additional pages...


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## LongGone

Mike[/quote]

Actually, I think we are in total agreement - when I said manufacturer I meant tyre manufacturer ~( my omission). It is a little known fact that you can calculate the weight of a vehicle if you know the surface area of the tyre touching the ground and the pressure of the tyre in pounds per Sq inch. You get the weight bearing on each type by dividing the pressure by surface area in sq inches and you add up the weight for each tyre, if you haven't passed out with boredom by then. The obvious implication is that for a given tyre the its pressure is directly linked to the weight it is supporting. By the same token if you contact the tyre supplier with your axle weights they will tell you exactly the required tyre pressure.[/quote]

I think you need the unloaded surface area as well as your loaded area for this to be feasible.


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## Dukeham

Hi.
It's all very well you guy's saying all these figures for tyre pressure's that seem to suite you personal need's but what if you were to have an accident & the insurance company/estimator checked them. How may you stand then if the recommended is 80psi & you are running at 60ish ?
GC.


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## Bacchus

LongGone said:


> Mike


Actually, I think we are in total agreement - when I said manufacturer I meant tyre manufacturer ~( my omission). It is a little known fact that you can calculate the weight of a vehicle if you know the surface area of the tyre touching the ground and the pressure of the tyre in pounds per Sq inch. You get the weight bearing on each type by dividing the pressure by surface area in sq inches and you add up the weight for each tyre, if you haven't passed out with boredom by then. The obvious implication is that for a given tyre the its pressure is directly linked to the weight it is supporting. By the same token if you contact the tyre supplier with your axle weights they will tell you exactly the required tyre pressure.[/quote]

I think you need the unloaded surface area as well as your loaded area for this to be feasible.[/quote]

No, I'm confident I'm correct - the only time the calculation will go off course is when you have run flat tyres with ultra-stiff side walls and with very low profile tyres. Having read your original email I would recommend that you read the link in kevina's email.


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## LongGone

So if my tyre pressure is 80 lbs sq. divided by my surface area of 60 sq." this equals 1.33 what? How do subtract the area not in contact ie grooves etc. What surface is the tyre on. The rougher it is the less contact\less surface area. Temp of tyres and countless other complex factors make up this equation.It sounds simple but if it were then weighbridges would be obsolete.
Puzzled as to what original email you refer to. Cheers Bob


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## Wizzo

Dukeham said:


> Hi.
> It's all very well you guy's saying all these figures for tyre pressure's that seem to suite you personal need's but what if you were to have an accident & the insurance company/estimator checked them. How may you stand then if the recommended is 80psi & you are running at 60ish ?
> GC.


Recommended by who though GC? My handbook says 44psi, my door pillar says 80psi, the TyreSafe booklet works it out at 50psi. In actual running conditions 50psi is right. The 44psi recommendation in the handbook is too low because there is some perceptible slide from the backend when cornering. So I am happy with 50psi, I certainly wouldn't be happy running pressures that are too high for safety reasons as well as comfort.

JohnW


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## loughrigg

A while ago, I drove away from a service appointment and nearly ended up in a ditch within a mile. This was caused by a "helpful" mechanic who had checked my tyre pressures and decided to put a bit more air in so they were "a bit closer to the recommended pressure on the door pillar".

Minor problem - the door pillar pressures were 78 - 80 psi based on a now-discontinued Michelin tyre. My MH is fitted with Vredestein Winter Comtracs that have a maximum pressure of 65psi at fulll load (at the serice my MH was empty and relatively light). The mechanic had inflated them to 75psi.

On the straight at low speed, I didn't really notice a problem. As I gained speed and went round a fairly gentle bend at about 45mph, the back end started to fishtail. It was not a nice moment.

With the pressures reduced to the usual running levels, handling was back to normal.

Mike


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## blondy

*Wheels spinning*

With the newer M/H's Drive wheel spinning should not be such a problem due to many being fitted with safety aids,ABS ASR TC etc, my nearly 3 year old fiat based MH has it, If you look on the internet you will see independent test by tiff needell, all motors should have it.


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## Bacchus

LongGone said:


> So if my tyre pressure is 80 lbs sq. divided by my surface area of 60 sq." this equals 1.33 what? How do subtract the area not in contact ie grooves etc. What surface is the tyre on. The rougher it is the less contact\less surface area. Temp of tyres and countless other complex factors make up this equation.It sounds simple but if it were then weighbridges would be obsolete.
> Puzzled as to what original email you refer to. Cheers Bob


Can't explain myself properly - here's the explanation:

http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/tired_weight/index.html

Obviously it's not totally serious regards Chris


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## LongGone

Hi Chris, 
Not to serious as you say, but I like it for what it is. I'm off to put mine over a weighbridge tomorrow to check the axles and GVW. If I'm to near the GVW the tow bars coming off. Never use it so it's a pretty useless appendage and heavy into the bargain. Wonder how many of us have one we've never used. Cheers Bob


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## Dukeham

Hi John.
I dont have any door pillars at the front only 1 hab door.
The only tyre pressure info given to me with the van was the hand book which clearly states 80psi.
Having said that i must admit I am not happy running mine at 80psi. It seems very skittish & a harsh ride. I must look into this a bit deeper.
The only reason I bought this up is we all know how insurance company's like any pathetic reason for not paying out.
GC.


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## Bacchus

I was in the same boat when I had an Adria Vision (uprated chassis)- no original door pillars. Dealer (BCS Herne Bay) couldn't tell me what the tyre pressures should be. When I eventually managed to get a handbook, it told me to use the base vehicle tyre pressures. In this case a Renault Master - but honestly what relevance is that? The only bit that's left of the base vehicle on a Vision is the engine, it's mounting and the drive train. Even the tyres are specialist camper tyres. A weighbridge provides the only solution but would an insurance company accept any variation from the official advice? 

This has been a thought provoking thread and I'm very grateful for the information provided. I'm getting my Chieftain on 4 March and when I'm ready, and loaded up for my hols in the South of France I'll take it on a weighbridge and get the true tyre pressures! I'd be interested to read about your weighbridge results. Chris


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## CliveMott

Next time get a rear wheel drive!!

C.


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## Mrplodd

I would suggest that you visit a weighbridge to obtain your *actual *(Not what you think it is or what its plated at) axle loadings. Then contact the tyre manufacturer (NOT you local tyre depot) give them the tyre details and ask THEM !! They have a technical dept and will give you EXPERT advice. I did that with Michelin last year and they were VERY helpful.

They admit they tend to quote high figures for MH makers to put on door stickers etc to give a safety margin.

Michelin's detailed response was along the lines of "Most motorhomes run overweight and it is much better to have tyres inflated to a high pressure than low pressure. the theory being if you are doing long distances in high ambient temperatures at high speeds under inflated tyres could overheat and fail, over inflated will not overheat but WILL give a harsh ride"

ASK THE TYRE MANUFACTURER THEY HAVE THE SPECIALISED KNOWLEDGE WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR PRODUCT !!!


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## Chudders

CliveMott said:


> Next time get a rear wheel drive!!
> 
> C.


Wondered how long it was going to be before someone got on to that old argument again


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## CullodenMuir

I agree with MrPlodd above, wheel spin is likely due to either overly high tyre pressures or low weight on the front axle, or a combination of the two.

In either case you need to get the van weighed on each axle, preferably when loaded for a typical trip.

Then contact your tyre manufacturer (for Michelin call their Technical advice line on 08453 661 535 ) and set the pressures as they say for your actual loads.

If you have too much load on the rear axle this will unload the front axle, and this is a prime cause of wheel spin - my manufacturer (Swift/Fiat/Alco) states:
Load on front axle must not be less than 42% of the total mass.
John


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## LongGone

LongGone said:


> Hi Chris,
> Not to serious as you say, but I like it for what it is. I'm off to put mine over a weighbridge tomorrow to check the axles and GVW. If I'm to near the GVW the tow bars coming off. Never use it so it's a pretty useless appendage and heavy into the bargain. Wonder how many of us have one we've never used. Cheers Bob


Follow up on above: Over the weighbridge this morning.

Front axle: 1620 kg. 
Rear axle : 1580 kg. 
GVW : 3280 kg 
Went back over the weighbridge to check weigh (my GVW is 3400 & GTW 5200) because I couldn't believe the figures. With all water and waste tanks empty, half a tank of diesel and only a modest amount of kit (this did include our Rhodesian Ridgeback ). Leaves 120 kg to play with. It's a six berth for Gods sake. Never thought of the payload when I bought it, just naturally thought that 6 Berth would leave more than the two of us would ever need. Never in a month of Sundays could this be classed as fit for the purpose ie 6 people. Ah well, my fault, should have known better. 
Have to check now whether I can uprate without the hassle of air mods. Might be downrated for Road Tax purposes. Hears hoping anyway. Anyone have any info? and the tow bar removal is first thing tomorrow. Cheers Bob


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## Jezport

On our old van a 2.0ltr Transit we noticed wheelspin on wet uphill steep slopes. This had Vanco tyres, cant remember the pressures. Our current van has michelin camping tyres and is running at its recommended tyre pressurew of 79PSI this van hold the road better.


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## LongGone

"next time rear wheel drive" & "same old argument" previous posts

Each to his own. Personally I would choose rear wheel every time (oldies usually do) and not just for traction etc reasons. An oft forgotten reason, or perhaps unknown by the younger generations (only ever known front wheel drive) is the maintenance factor. From a DIY standpoint especially practically any job could be managed without to much trouble simply because you had room to operate. Take cam belts. They are not a new innovation. When engines were fitted properly (pointing forwards?) you could pop a new one on in no time. CVJ's drive shafts! We had half shafts that lasted the life of the vehicle. Gearbox out and a new clutch in and back on the road in a few hours. I think they are known as the good old days (oldies again). Be interested to hear if anybody knows of a front wheel drive HGV. Cheers Bob


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## blondy

While I agree in principle with clive and long john, you have to weigh up other considerations, I now have front wheel drive, low alco chassis with a double floor and over 800KG payload, so I put this before rear wheel drive. Note Mine is an burstner a class 4000kg, and correct pressures according to michelin are 65 psi all round.


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## CliveMott

Then biggest attraction of front wheel drive to manufacturers is the ability to have all the fine "engineering" in one place. Its easier for them and results in a significant cost advantage for the purchaser. The lower floor level is another distinct advantage for motorcaravan conversions. It has lots going for it without doubt.
BUT
The old traditional rear wheel drive, especially for bigger motorhomes with twin rear wheels and lots of weight on the rear and mega overhang must be better for traction. Roughly 2 tonnes on the front and 4 tonnes on the rear for bigger A class vans.

If you look at the base vehicles for larger vans these all have rear wheel drive and now no cam belts either. Mercedes, Iveco 3 litre to pick out two.
Exceptions are those with twin rear axles on an AlKo chassis with drive on the front axle only. Wheel slip guaranteed with these.

For smaller PVC with nearly equal weight distribution then the traction arguement is not so significant. 

Each to their own. 
A few years with a Morris 1100 and a week with a Mini were enought to put me off front wheel drive for life.

C.
(Old phart)


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## LongGone

There is one drive chain that gives you everything in one small package, namely a hydrostatic drive train. Been around for years in construction plant. One item that relates directly to the highway would be an all terrain mobile crane. Most will have seen one on the public highway at some time or other, might even have been passed by one! Utilising one would lower the floor level to scrape the ground is so desired (certainly be a drop in Fiamma step sales). No cross axles, 1,2,3,4 (or more) individual wheel drive or any combination and the list of benefits just goes on. Motor homes do a few thousand miles, all our quarry excavators clock up 10,000 hours! plus, mostly at full revs. I know what I would opt for if it were available.


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## blondy

Yes Long John, Hydrostatic drive would be the answer to so many
M/H problems. I am quite amazed that in this tec age it has not been developed more as it is quite old technoligy.
Just think, no more juddering clutches,gear boxes and transmission tunnels just smooth drive to all wheels, am I dreaming?


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## LongGone

Not dreaming Blondy except, perhaps, that at our age we will still be around when the light finally dawns on the clowns manufacturing the over hyped, over priced rubbish that they persist in calling" cutting edge". My foot! Tracked excavators, for instance, are computerised for both operation and diagnostic breakdown\ maintenance. We have never had a computer failure to date, and yet they cover such as satellite link to the dealer, display of the faults in cab, solutions, warns of pending calamities, servicing etc. If only! but I expect its "dream on" Cheers Bob


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