# Bluddy Banks



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I somehow don't see why the banks are hell bent on us all using phones to access our finances. They admit fraud is rife and people are losing their lifes savings and having their bank details hacked and cash stolen in ever increasing amounts.

But they persist in trying to get us all to use mobile 'smart' gizmos and apps then warn us of the risks. 
I have just received this from Nat West where they want double checks on transfers...……………

_Updating your mobile number

With all these changes, it's really important that we have the correct mobile number for you so we can send you the one time passcode. Checking and updating your mobile number is easy - log into Online Banking and select 'Your details' section. If you need to update your mobile number you will need to use a card reader to authorise the transaction, if you don't have a card reader please visit the 'Security' section of Online Banking and select 'Order a card reader'.

Smarter, Stronger, Safer_

Not everyone has their phone glued to their face and many of us have two phones so which number to choose? Plus in the middle of a transaction we are supposed to locate the card reader we might use once in two years and then try and remember which card and what code.??? And my wife might have THE phone with her shopping. Great when the bank decides to send this code.

This is all because of their lax and cavalier attitude to our money by putting the blame on us for losses.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ray


Did they tell you what is a 'card reader'? Because it means nothing to me.


Geoff


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## Dougaitken (Aug 14, 2009)

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> 
> Did they tell you what is a 'card reader'? Because it means nothing to me.
> 
> Geoff


Here is a link regarding Card Readers. They are a device issued by banks that are about the size of a small calculator and which you can insert your bankcard into and generate unique Code numbers for each transaction where it is needed which the Online Bank system recognises..

https://personal.natwest.com/personal/ways-to-bank/using-a-card-reader.html

Doug


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> Did they tell you what is a 'card reader'? Because it means nothing to me. Geoff


Yes Geoff.
We have several now as they are becoming common place with the big banks. Barclays, Nat West, Lloyds, etc. 
It's a gizmo about the size of a small calculator you slide a nominated Credit Card or Debit Card from said bank in the slot and follow options to verify a generated code to allow completion of the transaction with another code.
But they are a pita when its' not to hand or the CC is remote.

Ray.


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## Dougaitken (Aug 14, 2009)

Hi Ray

If you try it I think you will find that that if you use the Barclays card reader when with NatWest it works and Vice versa. It seems that you can possibly use any banks card reader irrespective of the bank involved. 

Doug


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I do most of my banking on my phone and only seldom have to use a card reader - that's if it's with a bank that uses them. I use my fingerprint to log on to the app, after having "woken" the phone with facial recognition - and often that is all that is needed. I would never want to go back to the "old ways" of doing it.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Sh1t happens, I've had my bank card compromised twice and also my recent post here about my Caxton card when it was also impacted.

Yeah a bit of hassle but my account was always reimbursed for unauthorised debits without question, never lost a penny.

Better than having the cash in your wallet disappearing via a pickpocket, no comeback there.

Terry


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Dougaitken said:


> Hi Ray
> If you try it I think you will find that that if you use the Barclays card reader when with NatWest it works and Vice versa. It seems that you can possibly use any banks card reader irrespective of the bank involved. Doug


Thanks Doug, never realised that and have been carrying two of our three card readers around when travelling, Au cas où.
But it's still a faff. Especially when we are travelling and my wife might have the phone that gets the code thats at home on the charger?

Yes I rarely carry much cash about and mostly use one of two CC's. But as you say sh1t happens and it usually happens when your away from home. Like the speeding fine and paying for the accommodation, etc.

I can't feel happy about using my phone for any financial transactions. Thats just me mainly because of hearing and or reading about so many scams. I much prefer to use a laptop within my accommodation limited to it's WI-Fi or even Ethernet. Yes I am extra cautious now.!!!!

Ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

peribro said:


> I do most of my banking on my phone and only seldom have to use a card reader - that's if it's with a bank that uses them. I use my fingerprint to log on to the app, after having "woken" the phone with facial recognition - and often that is all that is needed. I would never want to go back to the "old ways" of doing it.


It's not fool proof Peter as some people have found out reading Computer Active.

Ray.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Try the Dandy & Beano Ray, far more entertaining than that rubbish.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Dougaitken said:


> Hi Ray
> 
> If you try it I think you will find that that if you use the Barclays card reader when with NatWest it works and Vice versa. It seems that you can possibly use any banks card reader irrespective of the bank involved.
> 
> Doug


Chris and I have a joint account but, because of our ISA's have different bank id numbers and card readers.
I cannot access his account with my card and reader and vice versa. As I do all the banking stuff we are usually logged into my side of the account. It is a pita when we have to find his card reader to do stuff on his ISA side. Given it is the same bank and same account I am not sure the above is right.

We also get no mobile signal in our house. The walls are too thick. So, when I do any banking, and they want to text me, it all falls apart! I nearly threw the whole lot out of the window and went back to using cash the last time. This applies to many things now not just banking. Any time they want to verify who you are it involves a mobile phone. Like Ray, we have two and swap them between us. They are mainly for calling each other in an emergency not for managing our finances!!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes Pat. We are being put through hoops because the banks want us to join their app banking to save them money. 
We already access and print off docs and statements at our expense. When it works.

And as for so called 'Smart Meters' I despair.

Ray.


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## Dougaitken (Aug 14, 2009)

We have a NatWest Account and a Barclays account and have card readers from both banks. if we need to use a Card Reader for any reason on the Natwest I have used the Barclays card reader with the Natwest bank card and it has worked fine.


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## Dougaitken (Aug 14, 2009)

patp said:


> It is a pita when we have to find his card reader to do stuff on his ISA side. Given it is the same bank and same account I am not sure the above is right.


Have you not tried just putting his card in your card reader.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dougaitken said:


> Here is a link regarding Card Readers. They are a device issued by banks that are about the size of a small calculator and which you can insert your bankcard into and generate unique Code numbers for each transaction where it is needed which the Online Bank system recognises..
> 
> https://personal.natwest.com/personal/ways-to-bank/using-a-card-reader.html
> 
> Doug


Thanks. So it acts like a HSBC 'Secure Key', which is a small keypad into which one enters one's PIN to also generate a code for a transaction. it is slightly smaller than a credit card but a bit thicker and will easily fit into a card holder of a wallet, so I imagine it is easier to carry than a reader.

Different Banks, different systems and names.

Geoff


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Dougaitken said:


> Have you not tried just putting his card in your card reader.


Yup. It comes up with "error" and tells me that it does not recognise the card.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

And, even though we have card readers they still want to send us texts!!


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

patp said:


> Chris and I have a joint account but, because of our ISA's have different bank id numbers and card readers.
> I cannot access his account with my card and reader and vice versa. As I do all the banking stuff we are usually logged into my side of the account. It is a pita when we have to find his card reader to do stuff on his ISA side. Given it is the same bank and same account I am not sure the above is right.
> 
> We also get no mobile signal in our house. The walls are too thick. So, when I do any banking, and they want to text me, it all falls apart! I nearly threw the whole lot out of the window and went back to using cash the last time. This applies to many things now not just banking. Any time they want to verify who you are it involves a mobile phone. Like Ray, we have two and swap them between us. They are mainly for calling each other in an emergency not for managing our finances!!


I think all banks differ slightly so that may be why you have the issues with card readers. One thing you should look at (if you haven't already) is whether your bank will allow you to access Chris' account (and vice-versa) using your log-on credentials. I know Barclays do that because I can log on to my account and I am given the option to switch accounts to Mrs P's. We had to go into a branch to sign some forms. Annoyingly though that wouldn't allow access to the investment account (ISA's etc) so I opened another ordinary account in her name and use the debit card from that (which I keep) with the pin reader to access her investment account. Saves me having to rummage through her handbag and purse for her card when I need to access that the investment account.

As for no mobile signal, I have none in both our houses. There are various things you can do though. One is to get a phone that has the ability to do calls over wifi (WiFi Calling) Better than that though is to get a Signal Box / Sure Signal box. The Signal Box is / was provided by EE and also works on their sister networks - BT mobile, Plusnet and ID. The Sure Signal box is provided by Vodafone and works on their network. You connect the box to your router with an ethernet cable and it sets up your own mobile phone cell in your house. I use them both in our homes and you would think you had full signal. I got mine from EE a couple of years ago and my Sure Signal off ebay. You need to be an EE customer to gert one for free although they were moving towards only giving it to business customers. You can buy them on ebay though.

3 have wifi calling but it's no good for incoming calls.


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

peribro said:


> 3 have wifi calling but it's no good for incoming calls.


That's not my current experience, Peter - 3's Wi-fi calling works for both incoming and outgoing calls.

Regards,
John


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Ozzyjohn said:


> That's not my current experience, Peter - 3's Wi-fi calling works for both incoming and outgoing calls.


Thanks John - yes, you are absolutely right. I was thinking of the old 3 app that only worked for outgoing calls. To use 3wifi calling though your phone still has to support WiFi calling which most do these days although not all I think.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks guys. The house problem should (?) be solved when we move out the clay lump built cottage into the modern bungalow. Depends how much insulation we manage to stuff in to the walls though! Will bear the solution in mind as it is a pita to keep explaining to people that the will not reach us on our mobile!


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> Thanks. So it acts like a HSBC 'Secure Key', which is a small keypad into which one enters one's PIN to also generate a code for a transaction. it is slightly smaller than a credit card but a bit thicker and will easily fit into a card holder of a wallet, so I imagine it is easier to carry than a reader.
> 
> Different Banks, different systems and names.
> 
> Geoff


A Barclay & Nationwide reader Geoff, I'm led to believe all Visa cards will work with all "_Visa_" cards.

Nationwide reader weighs 45gms and the Barclay 62gms.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Drew said:


> A Barclay & Nationwide reader Geoff, I'm led to believe all Visa cards will work with all "_Visa_" cards.
> 
> Nationwide reader weighs 45gms and the Barclay 62gms.


They obviously would not fit in a card pocket in a wallet like the HSBC device. Don't know the weight but seems to be the weight of 4 credit cards.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

It gets worserer and worserer.

I check my balance almost every day online here in France to see if anything has 'hit' or deposited in. It takes seconds and immediately lets me know of any dubious activity.
Today the bank has decided I need "Two Step Authentication" just to look at the balance.
As the signal to any mobile phone is hit and miss at best I called the bank and asked if this was really necessary? It's a government directive the girl at the bank stated and it's obligatory.
But I said as the cell signal is crap I leave the phone in the car just for emergencies and hardly ever use it. Her answer is to go check the phone in the car every time you want to access your account for the SMS code?? Even when in pyjamas in the pouring rain? Still no sympathy or excuses. 

My UK Nat West started this and would only send a SMS code to our UK portable which is usually dead flat in my wifes handbag. Progress my arse.!

Bluddy Banks.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Can you not get an option to get it to use a land line number Ray? I think some two step Auth systems can do that. It will be an automated message reading the number so you will need a pen or put it on speaker to type it in.

To be fair its actually a good system if a bit of a PIA. Almost impossible to hack.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I will ask Baz as I do only check my banks at home. Not wishing to risk any phone or Wi-Fi.

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Yes, it is a nuisance Ray, but I'm with Barry on this - I do think it makes it more secure.

Maybe buy a waterproof onesie??!! Haha!! I can just see it!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

jiwawa said:


> Yes, it is a nuisance Ray, but I'm with Barry on this - I do think it makes it more secure.
> 
> Maybe buy a waterproof onesie??!! *Haha!! I can just see it!*


So can I now, sadly.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the laugh Barry!!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Watchit Baz or I will bring that one of you in the black diving suit on here.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

No idea what your talking about but thats a battle you wont win! If I Cant find any dodgy photos of you I can easily "create" them.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

raynipper said:


> Progress my arse.!
> 
> Bluddy Banks.


I'm afraid it's the bluddy EU Ray - it was they who enforced this!!:smile2::smile2:

https://internetretailing.net/mobil...ication-to-protect-retailers-mastercard-18031


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Oohhhhw Peter, that was a low blow. So Nat West can lift this rule now eh??? We will see.

Ray.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Independence Day is near Ray! We'll sort it out. Good to see Sterling edging up again a bit - fingers crossed it'll stay that way. 

The money that multi-nationals have wasted renaming themselves over the years is an utter disgrace though - so saying I prefer NatWest to RBS - the latter is a "foreign" bank so far as I am concerned! Although I've availed myself of their hospitality at Twickenham on several occasions!


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ha ha, yes. But you can't please all the people all of the time.
I'm happy the exchange rate is getting better but two friends trying to sell and move back to UK are not.

Ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Due to admin problems with our PO CC's (Post Office Credit Cards) I have been scouting around for another CC that does not have foreign transaction fees.
There are still a few and some only allow mobile app banking. This to me seems crackers as mobile phones must be the weak link in banking security. 
Phones can be lost, hacked, wi-fi intercepted, etc. 
Why do banks force us to use such a weak security measure when they know online fraud is rife and growing?

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We chose to have one of those pre loaded cards from the Post Office when we were over wintering in Spain. It worked very well as we could go on line to top it up and then use it for most transactions when out and about. No charges for it use.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Our PO cards are Credit Cards Pat. Just like any other CC but no 'foreign' fees. Brilliant for more than ten years.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Could you not use one of those pre loaded cards though? There are no fees for using it.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Is Halifax Clarity not still fee-free? I also use the Starling bank in preference for getting cash out of the hole in the wall. I load it from my Santander a/c just when I need the money then use Starling in the ATM. It's not a CC tho.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

patp said:


> Could you not use one of those pre loaded cards though? There are no fees for using it.


Not really Pat as we live in France and use the cards for virtually everything we would have to 'load' thousands onto the card.

Ray.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

jiwawa said:


> Is Halifax Clarity not still fee-free? I also use the Starling bank in preference for getting cash out of the hole in the wall. I load it from my Santander a/c just when I need the money then use Starling in the ATM. It's not a CC tho.


As far as I could see the Clarity Card is still fee free Jean.
I tried to open a Starling account but didn't get very far. Their system knew we are in France and my only 'smart' phone has a French SIM.

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> As far as I could see the Clarity Card is still fee free Jean.
> I tried to open a Starling account but didn't get very far. Their system knew we are in France and my only 'smart' phone has a French SIM.
> 
> Ray.


That's a pity cos I'm sure they do euro accounts now.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes and as we approach Dec.31st maybe moving some spare cash into Euros might be prudent?

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Yes and as we approach Dec.31st maybe moving some spare cash into Euros might be prudent?
> 
> Ray.


Following that report today on the other thread about Johnson being more likely to go for no deal if Trump wins you might be better waiting until after the US election. My guess is sterling will fall if we go for no deal but not so sure what will happen if Biden wins and it forces Johnson into accepting a deal with the EU. The pound plummeted after the Brexit vote but it was worse against the dollar. Maybe the Euro will sink a bit as well if there is no deal but I would say its a dead cert the pound will fall further. Maybe Dollars might be a safer bet I dunno. Or Turnips.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I back turnips!


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