# re-tune your engine



## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

I believe that the power output of the common rail diesel engine fitted in commercial vehicles and motorhomes is considerably lower than the same engine fitted in a car. 
For example the 2.0l JTD in a Fiat Ulysse , Peugeot 807? ,Citroen C8 etc will be set up by the manufacturer to produce about 270 nm of torque , ie about 40% more. 
Presumably this is to make sure that a white van driver can flog his engine all day long , in a fully laden van , over mountain and desert and not kill it for half a million miles. 
Now it's true that the motorhome will be a heavy load to pull (although the Ulysse has a GVW of 2500 kg) compared to the car application , but seems to me that a modest increase in power output is not going to be detrimental. 
My engine , for example , is the same 2.0 lt Jtd and does slow up a bit on hills and getting away at the lights . To get to the point , I have been thinking of getting a performance increase at a reasonable cost . 
There are several suppliers of tuning boxes that will force the engine management system (ecu) to deliver more fuel at the injectors and hence increase the output power at the same engine revs and boost pressure. 
The best of these devices are digitally programmed for different types of engine and are available for about 400 pounds . 
A better alternative in my view is to reset the programming in the ecu to enable the correct timing and fuel pulse delivery for the required torque and power ,this is after all how the manufacturer would do it. 
It used to be the case that this meant removing the ecu and replacing the processor chip with one having the changed parameters .With the newer control units it is now possible to reprogram the relevant internal ic via the diagnostics connector.,You don't have to lift the bonnet or add any hardware and the process is completely reversible. 
I had my ecu re-mapped by an engineer who came to my home address ,downloaded and made a cd of the original mapping , sent the data to the parent company in Germany with details of my vehicle ,received the new programming data and downloaded it to my ecm . 
The mh now doesn't bog down in second gear at hilly T-junctions and climes the steep bits with a lot more enthusiasm. 
The remap from ShiresTuning (www.sp-tuing.co.uk) costs about 200 depending where you are, if you don't like it or you want to change back there's no cost., you have a copy of the original (as does the technician and the German factory) 
I have absolutely no connection with with this firm except as a customer !


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## 88991 (May 11, 2005)

We have the Peugeot 2.8 HDI and I think that it is fast enough, also if I decrease the amount of time it takes to hit 30mph, I think I would be looking at a few more speeding tickets.

I know the van is big and try to drive a lot slower than I would do in the car, does not always work out that way though. Happy as it is, I would be looking at getting more to the gallon in the UK..


Ray & Margaret


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## 88726 (May 9, 2005)

hi newstrings

it's an interesting post , i would be intreagued as to what type of eprom chip is in these things , because some eproms are removable and some eproms cost pence and you can programme some with an eprom burner if you have the correct chip to clone , which you do :!:


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## 88966 (May 11, 2005)

Hi Newstrings,

A very good description, I wonder if you could tell us your before and after MPG please.


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## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi All 
If I had a 2.8l i wouldn't look for more power either. 
No idea what eproms are in the ecu , not sure I want to know , i am happily retired from the hands on stuff. 
Only rough check my mpg , get about 27 on my lp mh . Don't expect it to change much with the re-map , I found I was often driving foot to the floor on the motorways , eg when changing lanes , or on the inclines ,so with a more gentle , or is it genteel , approach maybe it won't be much different. The tuning firms say it might even improve , hmm , not sure about that , anyway it's all down to the old right foot . Off to France for a few days soon , will try to get an mpg figure but its not high on the priorities , and no need to say what they are.... 
Bill


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## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi BillD Checked fuel consumption , on three tank fills I am getting 27 / 28 mpg so thats fine .Still pleased with the increased performance , not a huge gain in acceleration but engine is much more responsive , especially in second gear , also maintaining speed on hills is much improved . Actual power increase is stated to be about 25% , so I think the overall effect is to give about the same spec as the 2.3 l jtd.


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## 88905 (May 10, 2005)

And you have told your insurers that you have modified your vehicle, I presume???

nobby


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

What about warranty issues?


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## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

Presume away , Nobby . 
Mandy and Dave , if your van is still within warranty you may want to consider re-instating the original settings , if you are needing work on your engine. The tuner that I used will reprogram foc in these circumstances . I am told that the different settings do not show up on diagnostic fault finding , but of course a road test might tell a different tale to an experienced mechanic .


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## 88934 (May 10, 2005)

newstrings said:


> I am told that the different settings do not show up on diagnostic fault finding , but of course a road test might tell a different tale to an experienced mechanic .


"ghosting" is the term used for this process.

But I have often wondered about this very point. Sure it's almost impossible to detect diagnostic wise.

But what happens when some "old skool" type decides to co-incide his visit to the local cob shop with a good old road test?

Althoug on a motorhome it might not show so much as say on a ghosted performance car etc.

(BTW: TB Turbo's up in Lancs do those chip upgrades IIRC too)


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

If you are comtemplating one of these ECU upgrades it is well worth contacting Superchips. www.superchips.co.uk they have insurance arranged in the unlikely case of their changes affecting your Motor home whilst still under warrantee etc. They can also give details of insurance companies for use after chipping.

They also give you a copy of the original settings.

You may find this article I wrote useful! http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue22/superchips/index.shtml

John


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## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi jabber , 
Thanks for your article , didn't come across it before I had my re-map but I came to the same conclusions . I did look at all the tuning sites I could find including Superchips , but I found that Shirestuning were the cheapest , had some very good customer feedback , and would come to my address . You are charged for travel costs , depending on location , but even so I think it was very good VFM .


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## 96405 (Sep 29, 2005)

surely a remapped tweaked engine is going to be better on consumption ,becuase the engine is running better and therefore more fuel efficiant. or am i barking?


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

It could also be more stressed, timing advanced etc. If it was that easy the manufactureres would give a different mapping. The manfacturers mapping will be on the safe side but remember Motor Homes are also running on the maximum weight for a vehicle.

You need to be very careful about who is doing any mapping or add ons. One well known company installs a 'box' in which the electronics are on *all the time* so I wonder how good their electronics are?

John 8)


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

jabber said:


> Motor Homes are also running on the maximum weight for a vehicle.


I also think that this is partly the cause of premature failure of the 5th gear on certain models, remapping for better performance must put even more stress on the drive train.

Vans weren't designed to run 100% loaded 100% of the time, white van man might thrash his up and down the motorway every day but 50% of the time he is probably empty, the rest of the time only partly loaded. IMVHO


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## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

Fiat supply the 2.8 JTD with a higher output ECU (146 hp) for the Iveco, and some European Fiat vans as standard, therefore I think it is pretty safe to up the 127hp that is standard for most of us. As some one mentioned before, the mapping is set to cover worst case senarios, all the reprogramming or add on chip is doing is finding the optimum performance for which the engine is designed to run at anyway. This is why you get an increase in performance as well as a possible improvement in economy.
Personally I prefer the digital add on chip as it is easy to fit, and quick to remove before a trip to the dealers. These are available off Ebay from Tandem Tuning for £229 delivered.
Also you can transfer it to your next vehicle if it has the same engine. 
Colin


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## ActiveCampers (Jun 17, 2005)

Be warey of what ECUs can store. e.g. the one on the Elise has a special section which records the number of 0-60; 0-100; vMax runs, and also records the fastest 0-60 and 0-100 speeds!!

You need the Lotus scan tool rather than a normal ISO reader! Basically its so they can exclude claims from warentee!


Note also - lots of "cheaper* versions of chips just over-fuel - and not much else. So yes - possibly more power, but engine doesn't run neatly or cleanly. These "just plug them in" devices are likley to do more harm.

The full chip reprogrammes as detailed above are the way to go. Some manufactures actually support this or even offer it. For the life of me I can't recall who or what - but I have read this!

Superchip do provide warentee if the manufacturer does not - but I'd be scared of this.

My new van has 3 year warentee - so not keen on doing it. Instead, I upped the engine spec from them so I have a much more powerful one than standard.

Also, IIRC, Practical Motorhome did a review of this 2-3 months ago with positive results.


(Note - all above is IMO only)

BUT - be *VERY* cautious about cheap plug in devices!


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

Remapping is my opinion the only thing to consider. Some companies even have several different maps and will adjust for a specific engine, others just have a one off.

There is some conjecture that VW on their engine upgrades just changed the mapping but to my knowledge no proof.

One manufacturer also offered an upgrade chip for extra performance, I am afraid I can not remember which, but it was for cars and obviously would not affect their warrantee.

Land Rover has also issued upgrades to the original mapping which dealers have fitted.

With regards to the plug in boxes they cannot possibly take into account the number of readings the original ECUs do and so supply a proper balanced fuel supply and at the correct time. All these seem to do is to overfuel the engine and many tests have said they have noticed this - extra black unburnt fuel out the back of the engine!

Most if not all of the tests I have read have suggested a decrease in economy, particularly if the extra power is used, and if it is not used then the money is wasted!

As my article mentioned above shows I have looked into this in some depth, and my own conclusion was that I would not have this done to my own Motor Home. If I was to change my mind it would have to be with a company that guaranteed their work to replace any engine damage etc.

Hope this helps, it is only my own fairly well researched opinion!

John 8)


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## 89672 (Jun 3, 2005)

I wondered about 5th gear failures and increased engine torque . In my case just boosting the torque on the 2.0lt engine shouldn't be any problem for the gearbox . In the case of the 2.8 lt engine pulling a large and heavy van , why not avoid using 5th below 2,000 rpm anyway , except on the lightest of throttle settings ,ie if you need to rocket up the hills just drop it into 4th gear. 
There seem to be at least six engine re-mappers around at the moment , 
they all have very similar claims and assurances about their work , I would think that the actual re-programming data is identical or almost identical for each particular engine .There are at least two German companies supplying remaps , and they are the source the mapping used by some of the British tuners .They do state that the re-map is TUV approved , I have to admit that I don't really know what this means . 
As I said , prices range between less than 200 to more than 400 pounds , some tuners come to you , and with others you take your vehicle to their premises.


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## 88790 (May 9, 2005)

There are standard remaps which are the same as those issued by the vehicle manufacturers. However there are tuners that actually attach a PC to your vehicle check and ask you what you want the remap for and then remap specifically for your vehicle.

Different customers have different requirements, some what extra torque for pulling power, some want extra acceleration for sporting motoring etc.

Although all engines should be the same after a several thousand miles they can have developed different characteristics and companies like Superchips for example, check there remap and will make custom corrections for your own unique vehicle. Not many do this they just put in a standard remap, which is fine but not necessarily the best answer.

Its a case of you pay your money and ..................................

Jeremy Fearn is another expert at providing performance chips and I think you find he tunes them to the specific engine, rather than just generic chips.

I think Allard do an in line box fitted with their intercoolers, but they also fit a switch so that the box can be only used when necessary. So many different permutations.

John 8)


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