# Lose grey water tank or spare wheel from compact PVC?



## davidashapirouk (Dec 29, 2007)

We have a compact camper based on SWB Sprinter. Conversion was done by Nu Venture Campers of Wigan. It's a scaled-down version of their Elise front lounge layout, to fit in maxiumum level of amenity within a narrow and short van. Biggest compromise in this design was storage, so we're planning to gain space by scrapping the (over-specified) 11kg Gaslow cylinder and replacing it with underslung 9.2 kg one from Autogas2000.

To fit the new cylinder in the limited space under the van means doing away with either the spare wheel or the grey water tank. We never use the grey tank on site as it's easier to carry containers to disposal point than move the van. We've never (yet) used the spare wheel and I believe it's normal to dispense with these on large MHs.

Any comments or advice on this choice would be most welcome. Which would you rather do without, grey water tank or spare wheel? I pose this question partly with an eye to resale value were we to sell the van in the future.

Small vans are always a compromise, but I'm sure we'll use the extra storage more often than either the grey tank or the spare wheel.

Thanks for reading this, especially if you too are a small van addict.


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## camallison (Jul 15, 2009)

Why not put the spare wheel on the back - like you see on many 4x4s? If you do so, then put a lock on it to stop light-fingered scrotes from taking it.

Colin


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## KSH (Apr 18, 2010)

I'd rather have a spare wheel


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

There are a few alternatives to a grey tank.

There are much fewer alternatives to a spare wheel especially if you're out in the wilds, wind and rain - poor cell phone reception etc.

No contest - keep the spare.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi David

I'd rather keep both!!

Have you had a look at the huge range of tanks available from CAK Tanks. http://www.caktanks.co.uk/

I bet they do one, possibly smaller than your existing one, that could be squeezed in somewhere underneath. If not, I believe they do bespoke ones fairly reasonably.

Dave 

Edited to correct nonsense!


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

I agree with keping the spare wheel, it is compulsory in some countries.on the back door with a re-inforced plate inside. good idea to look at C A K as well.
I am concerned about the underslung gas bottle !!!!!!!!!!

cabby


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## andrewball1000 (Oct 16, 2009)

You might also like to consider the effect on the resale value of your MH with whatever you do. What you are prepared to sacrifice for extra storage space may not be acceptable to others. I certainly would not buy a MH without a wastewater tank as it would severely limit me in how I use my vehicle.


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

Looking totally at resale I would dispose of the spare wheel, after all nowadays it is unusual for a spare on Higher class vehicles they usually have the Emergency Tyre inflation system on board <Here> along with a 12v Compressor.


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## swimmingdog (Jul 26, 2008)

I wouldn't go anywhere without a spare.

It's very easy to damage a tyre beyond what gunge will fix, and you can bet it will be late at night in the middle of nowhere, pouring with rain, you will be running late and you will have no cellphone coverage!

If you have voluntarily disposed of the spare your breakdown firm may also disown you! Campingcar tyres etc are often hard to find in remote areas, so even with assistance you could find yourself in a difficult and expensive mess.


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## The-Clangers (Sep 18, 2009)

I would keep the spare wheel. I had the misfortune recently of hitting a pothole in my wife's car. Pouring rain, black night and no spare, just a compressor and gunge. The tyre had a split and it would not inflate. I left it at the side of the road and called my son to come and pick me up. Went back next day and called RAC, he tried putting plugs in and inflating, but would not work. The RAC guy stated that they only worked for small holes such as nails. He took me to get a new tyre. One of the worst ideas on a modern vehicle.

David


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

My first inclination was to say ditch the spare wheel and get a can of Tyre weld or equivalent. However we've got two cars that don't have spare wheels and I've had mixed results. A couple of times no problem but a year or so ago I hit a raised manhole cover at some speed and did serious damage to the tyre and wheel. There was no way that tyre weld was going to fix the rip in the tyre and since the wheel was also a right-off, I drove the 2 miles to the main dealer (I was very lucky) at 10mph with the hazards on. A little while after, my wife drove into a monstrous pot hole 100 yards from our house. Tyre destroyed and no way tyre weld was going to fix it so got a mobile tyre fitter out to the house.

My advice therefore would be if you are going to be doing your travelling in the UK and have breakdown cover then chance it. If going abroad, I would want a spare wheel.


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## lalala (Aug 13, 2009)

Hi, 
we have a small campervan, smaller than yours, a short wheel VW Transporter. We always carry a spare wheel and wouldn't be without it as though we've had no problems so far we have had in the past on other vehicles.
What will you do if there is no grey-water tank? Sorry to be so ignorant but then where would the sink water go? I can see that you could put a container under the outlet if you were on a site, but what if you just stop to make a meal?
We haven't masses of storage but we find it enough if we are careful in what we take with us. the one thing we would have liked is a bigger gas bottle (camping gas 907) or no gas at all and have diesel cooking instead!
lala


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## SaddleTramp (Feb 15, 2007)

peribro said:


> My first inclination was to say ditch the spare wheel and get a can of Tyre weld or equivalent. However we've got two cars that don't have spare wheels and I've had mixed results. A couple of times no problem but a year or so ago I hit a raised manhole cover at some speed and did serious damage to the tyre and wheel. There was no way that tyre weld was going to fix the rip in the tyre and since the wheel was also a right-off, I drove the 2 miles to the main dealer (I was very lucky) at 10mph with the hazards on. A little while after, my wife drove into a monstrous pot hole 100 yards from our house. Tyre destroyed and no way tyre weld was going to fix it so got a mobile tyre fitter out to the house.
> 
> My advice therefore would be if you are going to be doing your travelling in the UK and have breakdown cover then chance it. If going abroad, I would want a spare wheel.


Whilst that is entirely possible on a car, It is unlikely on a MH tyre as the walls are much stronger and just hitting a pothole would not cause the type of damage as found on a car in any way shape or form.


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## davidashapirouk (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks to all for helpful posts. It seems both spare wheel and grey water tank have their strong advocates. Which makes me want to find ways to keep both, which include:

1. Leaving things as they are and striving to make do with existing storage capacity. Main challenge there is my DSLR camera kit, which preferably lives in a backback bag that occupies most of the "wardrobe".

2. Replacing the 11kg Gaslow with a 6kg bottle to achieve (surprisingly little) extra room for flexible items such as cables, bags, etc. within the gas locker.

3. Going ahead with the underslung gas bottle and getting a smaller, probably custom-made, grey water tank to fit in whatever space remains.

Option 3 might be the best but of course the most expensive, and even after close examination of the available space with the guys from Autogas2000 I'm not at all sure how big such a custom tank could be ...

Hmmm ... more thought needed. But this helpful (to me at least) thread shows the value of online forums.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

My inclination would be to keep both and ask yourself if you really need the extra storage space you crave. Can't you buy a decent compact camera and ditch the SLR? 

In my panel van my wife and I fret over whether we need an extra jumper or gizmo of some kind; and how many people have you spoken to who say they don't need or use everything they take with them.

Another option would be to free up some extra space by using a Camping Gaz 907 bottle. Very expensive gas but that could prove cheaper than modifying tanks. 

It depends how much gas you use but for me I use less than one 6kg bottle in my 120 or so days away per year and at least 40% of that is spent on Aires where gas usage is higher than on sites. 

What about a back box?

If I had to do without a spare wheel or grey water tank I would lose the spare. Many new vans don't have one these days and you could always use Punctureseal which is effective in some but admitedly not all situations.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

A spare wheel is an insurance. Keep it.
You only need to have to use it once and you will be gratefull for it. The gunky stuff would have been no use on my last two punctures. Holes as big as tennis balls.
Waste water, there are plenty of containers of all different shapes and sizes to collect it.
How do you think caravanerss cope. 

Dave p


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

As some people have said some countries insist on a spare, but I'd imagine they can't insist if the manufacturer left it off? But you taking it out? Will they know you removed it rather than a camper converter?

I had a VW golf that didn't have a spare, and had two punctures. One was right next to a tyre fitters. That meant I could buy the new tyre required straight away, but meant I had to pay their extortionate price and couldn't shop around. Several threads on here have mentioned campers in Europe needing one tyre, but Euro law/convention requires you to buy two. More cost!

The second was a small hole, central to the tread, ideal for tyre gunk stuff I'm told, but no way would it seal. You also need a compressor to get up to a decent pressure.


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 
Dave p


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## davidashapirouk (Dec 29, 2007)

gelathae said:


> My inclination would be to keep both and ask yourself if you really need the extra storage space you crave. Can't you buy a decent compact camera and ditch the SLR?
> 
> In my panel van my wife and I fret over whether we need an extra jumper or gizmo of some kind; and how many people have you spoken to who say they don't need or use everything they take with them.
> 
> ...


All good questions, but:

As a (second-career) pro photographer I'm afraid I "need" more than a compact camera.

Re 907 bottle it has no gauge and I hate the thought of not knowing when it might run out. No room for back box alongside the bike rack.

Re the spare wheel, opinions are evenly split between your view and the opposite position which is to say, don't ditch the insurance of a spare, and we're cautious folks by nature.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

davidashapirouk said:


> Main challenge there is my DSLR camera kit, which preferably lives in a backback bag that occupies most of the "wardrobe".


Leave your camera in the wardrobe and pack your clothes in polythene vacuum storage bags. Make sure you buy the type that are squashed by hand-rolling rather than use of a vacuum cleaner. You can pack loads of clothes in them and they collapse almost flat and they then stack neatly into all sorts of spaces- even, if you are really pushed, between the bedbase and the cushions.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roll-Travel-Vacuum-Bags-DB403/dp/B004EJKFG2

We pack spare clothes, towels and duvet covers in them when we go away for longer, over -2 -season trips and it is remarkable how little clothes are creased.

Have you got space in the door well of the cab to make a storage box ? Or can you make cab seat back pockets that would take one bag of clothes in each pocket ?

G


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

davidashapirouk said:


> Re 907 bottle it has no gauge and I hate the thought of not knowing when it might run out.


I have some fishing scales of sufficient capacity for a full bottle. I would think every bottle must have the empty weight stamped on them, so you can guage how full it is at any time by hanging them on the scale?

Similar to these, not very big but handy;

http://www.scalesexpress.com/product.php?productid=16552&cat=336&page=1


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Another vote for keeping the spare wheel  

Just imagine for a moment you are on a motorway on a bank holiday weekend and for whatever reason you shred a tyre (running over some debris is the usual cause) Just contemplate for a moment what it will cost to get your vehicle removed from the motorway ( You are looking at hundreds of pounds  , trust me!!)

A lot of breakdown policies EXCLUDE cover in such a situation if you do not have a spare !! (its hidden away in the small print :roll: )


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## davidashapirouk (Dec 29, 2007)

Just to update people who posted on this: I've decided not to go ahead with the external gas tank. I've been reminded of the value of both spare wheel and grey water tank, as well as the scope for decluttering and requiring less storage. 

It would cost almost a grand to supply and fit both gas tank and custom-made grey water tank. It would also be quite a hassle, requiring the van to be measured up for the custom grey water tank before fitting the gas tank, then returning to the water tank maker. Too much hassle, especially during the camping season.

I've settled for exchanging the 11kg Gaslow tank for a 6kg one, done free of charge by Gaslow at Loughborough. When re-sited in the corner of the cupboard (requiring adjustments to hoses as well as the fixing of the restraining strap) this will give worthwhile (albeit modest) extra space for largish items such as cables, hoses, or possibly levelling blocks.

Thanks to everyone who posted; you've helped me reach what feels like a sound conclusion.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for letting us know David.

Best solution all round I think, especially as it still leaves you with all the alternatives if you change your mind later. :wink:

I presume you had a good browse in the CAK Tanks brochure, and checked out the sizes of their standard tanks? If you could find even quite a small one to fit in the space available, it would add greatly to your flexibility.

For example during en-route stops for lunch, where you only want to flush a drop of water down the sink (_rinsing the mugs and plates_) but don't want the hassle of getting the grey waste container out. Even on overnight stops on (say) an Aire you would probably not send more than a few litres down the sink.

Once pitched on a site you could still put the container under the drain tap, so nothing would be lost there.

I reckon you could do that for very little cash, especially as a DIY job. If the pipe runs are not too awkward it shouldn't be too difficult.

Just thinking aloud! :wink:

Dave


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