# UK Road Conditions Better To Use Winter (cold weather) Tyres



## teemyob

Here we go again,

I guess this may not apply to many motorhomers as many of us often go where general road users would not. Many of you may be Skiers who drive to the resorts.

We have recently spent three weeks in Norway at temperatures as low as -20's c and not seeing Tarmac for days at a time. Weather was foul even for Skandinavia. Snowstorms, extremely low temperature you name it.

This was my Daily Newspaper










In parts of Southern Norway, they had 60cm or around 2 foot of snow in one night. Despite this, by lunchtime everyone was going about their normal daily business, by Car, Truck & Bus. Everything fucntioned in a normal day-to-day fashion.

A couple of weeks ago We drove off the DFDS Ferry at Newcastle and tuned to BBC Radio 2. Only to hear Sally Traffics Report. It went along the lines of........

"WHITE OUT CONDITIONS" "VERY DANGEROUS TO TRAVEL" "TRETCHEROUS CONDITIONS" "MOST APPAULING WEATHER"

It went on........'Trainspotter' and 'Disco Driver' just rang in from the M4 to say they have been sat in standing traffic for over an hour, beacuse of heavy snowfalls and a Yes again "Total Whiteout Conditions".

I think if you listen to RADIO 2 or indeed any UK Traffic reports, you will know how excited they can get about adverse weather, often extremely exagerated.

I have mentioned this before, BUT.... We spend Thousands of pounds on vehicles, upgrades and options. Yet we neglect the only thing that keeps our 2, 4 or however many wheels you have clinging to the road. Tyres, yes that bit of rubber that plants your motor onto the tarmac. I have seen £50,000+ 4x4's stuck in little snow simply because they have worn summer tyres fitted. Brand new £7,000 Hatchbacks sliding around on compacted snow and Trucks sliding off the road again only due to the fact they have the wrong tyres fitted for the season.

Idiotic or Ignorant? It is your choice.

Next time your considering spending hundreds or thousands of pounds on your cars or motorhome's. Please give some thought to decent tyres.


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## pippin

I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between 

the additional cost of fancy winter tyres, 

the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them, 

the additional mpg incurred and 

that they are usually noisier.


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## johnandcharlie

You must be talking about a different country. I lived in West Somerset for 9 years and we never had any decent snow, unless I went up on Exmoor to deliberately look for it. In fact we very rarely had any sort of snow, and I never had to take any special precautions, just drive a bit more carefully occasionally. Maybe that's part of the problem. In some parts of the country snow is very rare now. That's why I came back down south for the winter!


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## teemyob

*Tired*



pippin said:


> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.


Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.

MPG increase is negligible

The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.

I wonder wether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.

Trev.


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## teemyob

*South*



johnandcharlie said:


> You must be talking about a different country. I lived in West Somerset for 9 years and we never had any decent snow, unless I went up on Exmoor to deliberately look for it. In fact we very rarely had any sort of snow, and I never had to take any special precautions, just drive a bit more carefully occasionally. Maybe that's part of the problem. In some parts of the country snow is very rare now. That's why I came back down south for the winter!


Is the M11 not in the South?

Trev.


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## johnandcharlie

*Re: South*



teemyob said:


> Is the M11 not in the South?
> 
> Trev.


I only know the M3 to M5. Anything else is in foreign parts I'd only visit after checking the weather forecast :wink:.


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## teemyob

*Tired tyres*

I guess it's up to you then. Tyres are often neglected in favour of fancy accessories. No good when the weather truns nasty or in the case of some a bit of damp grass.

Decent M+S or winter tyres could get you out of a lot of trouble or indeed save your life.

Trev.


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## Zebedee

*Re: Tired*



teemyob said:


> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder wether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder about the poor devils who DID have them fitted (_and therefore could have driven much more safely and without getting stuck_) but were caught up in the chaos among the 99% (?) who didn't. 8O
> 
> Bet they were none too happy! :evil:
Click to expand...


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## GerryD

We dont need winter tyres, just sensible drivers. In most of the country we do not see real snow.
Most of the UK all that is needed is drivers with a lighter right foot.


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## teemyob

*Re: Tired*



Zebedee said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder wether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder about the poor devils who DID have them fitted (_and therefore could have driven much more safely and without getting stuck_) but were caught up in the chaos among the 99% (?) who didn't. 8O
> 
> Bet they were none too happy! :evil:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do Agree Zebedee,
> 
> I was going to put something along those lines in my post. I just wanted to see if anyone else cam up with it.
> 
> Exactly why Winter Tyres need to be marketed and stocked more in the UK. I was talking to a tyre Sales rep last year who was amazed how many tyre fitters in the UK did not even know such a thing existed. He also blamed the situation on the fact that Major outfits such as Kwik Fit do not even offer them to customers. If the benefits were outlined then the idea may catch on. Indeed with our climate, we could benefit from them 50 weeks of the year.
> 
> Trev.
Click to expand...


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## richs2000

if winter tyres were that great they would be fitted as standard. 

obviously somewhere there is a downside. people are then free to choose whether or not to accept the downside for the advantages. 

the m11 was a freak (assuming we are both on about the motorway that a couple of yrs ago was blocked for several miles due to a bit of snow) 

winter tyres wouldn't have helped as the road was blocked with people who didn't have winter tyres and hence were blocking the road. 

i've seen plenty of places jammed up abroad due to inclement weather, it's not just a British thing


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## teemyob

*Tired*



GerryD said:


> We dont need winter tyres, just sensible drivers. In most of the country we do not see real snow.
> Most of the UK all that is needed is drivers with a lighter right foot.


A point in case,

Who mentioned snow tyres?

Maybe I should put in the topic "Cold weather tyres".

Does anyone know the braking difference between a standard saloon summer tyre and a winter tyre at say 8 degrees c?.

Check out these links or google your own FAQ's

Michelin Pages
etyres pages
Tyre Safety

But I do agree with you on the right foot statement, bad thing is when that right foot needs to shift to the brake, the wrong tyres could render them near useless.

Trev


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## 108717

I find this 'We're so unprepared..... 2cm of snow and we're stranded...etc' discussion interesting. But I think it's because we are annoyingly on the cusp of everything extreme but never actually experience it for more than a day or two.

When I go to scandinavian countries in spring and Autumn, you can be walking down the street and hear that ticky tacky sound of spiked snow tyres on tarmac. I had to ask a guy I was working with what the sound was! His answer was "winter is coming". But, if you had spiked tyres on in the UK you'd be bonkers because for the chance of getting snow 1 day you'd be tottering about on(and completely trashing) a set of tyres totally unsutable for everyday UK speeds and driving styles. But in Helsinki or Stockholm you can bet yer life that the snow is coming and you better be prepared. And not just for convenience. After a certain date in these countries, you better have your snow tyres on when the first flakes fall or you are in DEEP doo doo with Mr. plod. Did you know that the day you have to change to winters is like a national refernce point in many scandinavian countries?

Yes, you do see some stupid driving in the UK when it snows, but it's not ALL ignorance. If you grew up sliding around on snow you're going to understand it. Walking on snow is the same. I bet they do it better! They've done it every winter since they were kids. We don't get chance to practice.

In Stockholm, when you pull up at the lights in the snow you leave a good cars length to the car in front. This is so that when the lights change you all get away swiftly and safely without worrying about whacking eachother.

I spent a few days in Helsinki last year and had to get taxis to and from the arena on the other side of town. I loved it! Seeing a cabbie in an automatic merc saloon controlling slides and driving in a city centre at rush hour without hitting anyone despite being in full 'cabbie' mode! Then the run to and from the airport where multiple lanes of traffic travel side by side at 70mph on a motorway with tramlines for tarmac but nobody crashes. It's like they all know what those around them are doing/experiencing. I loved it. But we can't blame everyone over here for not being ready for something you can't practice on!

When my step-son had his first car and it snowed I took him to a remote place and got him to slide about a bit because you really have no comprehension of how it is to slip around until you've done it. So why do we expect Mrs Smith from down the road in her Fiesta to turn into Tommi Makkinen at the first flurry? 

Then again, if they can build a snowdome for snowboarding?............hmmmmm, now that would make taking yer test a bit more interesting!

Look at the population of Finland and look at how many world class Rally Drivers they have produced. Look at the stats for Britain and most of them have been Scottish. More snow, more experience of sliding around, no panic when the wheel goes light and so on. 

I suppose what I'm trying to say here is is that despite the fact that we all THINK we're great at driving on snow we don't all have an agreed plan. We don't know what other people's approach to the next junction/roundabout/hill is so no matter how good we are as individuals we're always going to grind to a halt and crash into eachother. 

However, I'd like to see any of these people keep a level head at the Dartford Tunnel at rush hour. Oh yes, that's a skill we British should be proud of!


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## teemyob

*cold weather*



richs2000 said:


> if winter tyres were that great they would be fitted as standard.
> 
> obviously somewhere there is a downside. people are then free to choose whether or not to accept the downside for the advantages.
> 
> the m11 was a freak (assuming we are both on about the motorway that a couple of yrs ago was blocked for several miles due to a bit of snow)
> 
> winter tyres wouldn't have helped as the road was blocked with people who didn't have winter tyres and hence were blocking the road.
> 
> i've seen plenty of places jammed up abroad due to inclement weather, it's not just a British thing


Lots of things in a motorvehicle are great, many of them do not come as standard. Sat Nav, diesel Pre-heaters, heated windscreens, heated seats, Bluetooth!. Bear in mind most cars in the UK are registred in the Summer.

Yes There may be downsides of fitting appropraite tyres, if that means if driver who has inappropriate tyres fitted and skids into someone resulting in injury or death, that makes it okay?.

Yes same M11.

"winter tyres wouldn't have helped as the road was blocked with people who didn't have winter tyres and hence were blocking the road."
Now let me just read this again! Richs2000, I think you may need to re-phrase that one. The answer is in there somewhere.

Its not just a British thing, you maybe correct and your point is? does that fact that it does not just happen to us again makes it okay for us to drive on the wrong tyres?.

Thanks for the response.

Trev.


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## teemyob

*Should have studded it!*



jimbo_hippo said:


> I find this 'We're so unprepared..... 2cm of snow and we're stranded...etc' discussion interesting. But I think it's because we are annoyingly on the cusp of everything extreme but never actually experience it for more than a day or two.
> 
> When I go to scandinavian countries in spring and Autumn, you can be walking down the street and hear that ticky tacky sound of spiked snow tyres on tarmac. I had to ask a guy I was working with what the sound was! His answer was "winter is coming". But, if you had spiked tyres on in the UK you'd be bonkers because for the chance of getting snow 1 day you'd be tottering about on(and completely trashing) a set of tyres totally unsutable for everyday UK speeds and driving styles. But in Helsinki or Stockholm you can bet yer life that the snow is coming and you better be prepared. And not just for convenience. After a certain date in these countries, you better have your snow tyres on when the first flakes fall or you are in DEEP doo doo with Mr. plod. Did you know that the day you have to change to winters is like a national refernce point in many scandinavian countries?
> 
> Yes, you do see some stupid driving in the UK when it snows, but it's not ALL ignorance. If you grew up sliding around on snow you're going to understand it. Walking on snow is the same. I bet they do it better! They've done it every winter since they were kids. We don't get chance to practice.
> 
> In Stockholm, when you pull up at the lights in the snow you leave a good cars length to the car in front. This is so that when the lights change you all get away swiftly and safely without worrying about whacking eachother.
> 
> I spent a few days in Helsinki last year and had to get taxis to and from the arena on the other side of town. I loved it! Seeing a cabbie in an automatic merc saloon controlling slides and driving in a city centre at rush hour without hitting anyone despite being in full 'cabbie' mode! Then the run to and from the airport where multiple lanes of traffic travel side by side at 70mph on a motorway with tramlines for tarmac but nobody crashes. It's like they all know what those around them are doing/experiencing. I loved it. But we can't blame everyone over here for not being ready for something you can't practice on!
> 
> When my step-son had his first car and it snowed I took him to a remote place and got him to slide about a bit because you really have no comprehension of how it is to slip around until you've done it. So why do we expect Mrs Smith from down the road in her Fiesta to turn into Tommi Makkinen at the first flurry?
> 
> Then again, if they can build a snowdome for snowboarding?............hmmmmm, now that would make taking yer test a bit more interesting!
> 
> Look at the population of Finland and look at how many world class Rally Drivers they have produced. Look at the stats for Britain and most of them have been Scottish. More snow, more experience of sliding around, no panic when the wheel goes light and so on.
> 
> I suppose what I'm trying to say here is is that despite the fact that we all THINK we're great at driving on snow we don't all have an agreed plan. We don't know what other people's approach to the next junction/roundabout/hill is so no matter how good we are as individuals we're always going to grind to a halt and crash into eachother.
> 
> However, I'd like to see any of these people keep a level head at the Dartford Tunnel at rush hour. Oh yes, that's a skill we British should be proud of!


Hello Jimbo_hippo,

Again a case in point,

I never suggested that anyone fit Studded Nordic Winter tyres for use in the UK!.

I think the fitment of Northern European winter tyres to vehicles in the UK should be given some serious thought. Especially for us motorhome users due to the places some of us may venture in the cold seasons.

Just to reiterate, I am not talking about studded tyres or snow tyres. I am suggesting better all season M+S tyres or Northern European Winter tyres.

I mentioned Norway as the extreme to our winters and how they cope with it. When I passed my test all them years ago, we used to drive up to the moors to sled and have fun in the snow. Even then many people used to think anyone who drove on a white road was crazy, guess they may be correct in one sense.

Trev.


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## teemyob

*Snow Way*

Newsflash from a Derbyshire website 1st February 2008

Updated Every 5 minutes 3cm of Snow on the Ground - The Snow Showers have moved away Eastwards now BUT the roads are TOTAL CHAOS with lorries stuck on ice & snow, so traffic is backing up in all directions - 22.45 Friday - KEEP AWAY FROM BUXTON IF YOU CAN !!!

Anyone get my point ?

So wish I did not have so much to do tommorow, realy fancied a weekedn at Longnor wood.

Trev.


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## 108717

But this is a cultural thing as much as common sense. For example, I have 4 vehicles here at the moment, mine, the other half's, my stepsons and a motorhome. How many of these do I have winter WHEELS and tyres for? None. That's because in this country we have no culture of having winter WHEELS and tyres. I for one am not going to pay for a set of low profile slighty pricey summer tyres to ditch them for winters unless I have rims to put them on. Then I can get another 20K out of my summers slipping up and down the M1 for a year when spring comes around. Make it the law and I might reconsider.

In Cananda, Scandinavia, Russia etc, everyone assumes they need 2 set of complete wheels and tyres and allows a space to store them, has the knowledge and equipment to swap them and knows why they need them. So we need to either be educated or have legisation to force us to do it because if I think back to my days of living in a flat, having the space for a set of scruffy steelys with winters on was never going to happen. But my friends in Finland MAKE the space or store them at their parents. Plus, vanity comes high on my list and if I have some sexy 17inch low profiles I'm not gonna drive around on chunky tyres and rusty steel wheels if my neighbours aren't. Sad but true! 

I'm not picking a fight with you here Teemyob, in fact from my travels and experience I agree with you very strongly but this isn't part of our culture and unless someone forces us to do it we won't. We don't have the extremes to make this work. Yes, today, there's snow on the ground in certain places. I drove from North Yorks to Newcastle and back today with the radio going bonkers about snow chaos but no sign of snow. Yet 20 miles to my left there are 150 folk in cars stuck on the A66. But in Canada EVERYONE is in snow not just a 10 mile stretch for 1 day. Lets revisit this thread on 9th Feb, 7 days from now and I bet its just soggy old England again. Out of the millions of motorists rattling round the UK today, how many have had snow between them and tarmac and how many would know how to drive on winters if they had them?

And I see your last post about Derbyshire but to be fair, the radio has been telling people not to venture out in the north east and down as far as Lincolnshire since lunchtime so if you are out in that you are either nuts or you have your winter wheels on! 

In the interest of giving a balanced and agreeable response I can tell you that I have proved your theory and mine simultaneously when I owned an Impreza Turbo. Thinking myself invincible in my 4x4 velcro warrior, I drove around my neighbourhood on 18inch low profiles and quickly doscovered that skinny tyres that don't flex, fill up with snow and don't work sub 0 degrees equates to you being in someones front garden no matter how much 4x4 wizardry is in your ECU. I'd have done better in a Mk1 Escort with snow chains on!


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## 108717

*Re: Tired*



teemyob said:


> GerryD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know the braking difference between a standard saloon summer tyre and a winter tyre at say 8 degrees c?.
> 
> Trev
> 
> 
> 
> I once had the brakes upgraded on a performance car and discovered that my new challenge was to not to marvel at how much faster I stopped than the car in front but watch my rear view mirror to avoid having someone stuffed in the back of me. Going back to the Stockholm example, everyone behaves and anticipates the same because they have the same hardware whether they drive an Austin Allegro or a Buggatti. It's a popular misconception that being able to stop better than the guy in front makes you safe. When you whack yer foot on the carbon fibre discs, check your rear view for the guy who doesn't have them appearing at a rear parcel shelf near you really soon.
> 
> Unless EVERYONE get winters (not studded, just winters) it's neither here nor there. The reason I mention the Stockholm thing and the fact that its' cultural is because when they do the 10ft distance balet at the lights (worth seeing by the way) and they drive 70mph side by side on the snow it's because they are all equal.
> 
> On the computer you are currently typing on, there are a lot of advances in speed and performance but underneath, one of the main advances is data flow management. Not getting data to bash into eachother is a bigger breakthrough than the pentium 96 gazzilion whatever. PCI data management means no crashes bangs and wallops. If we get everyone thinking the same with the roads then we might be onto something. But do we need it 364 days a year?
Click to expand...


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## savannah

Apart from the winter tyre/summer tyre argument......it would be a good starting point if everyone made sure they had good quality tyres fitted with PLENTY of tread ALWAYS !!!!
Talking about people being incapable of driving in snowy conditions.......you want to try driving in Spain after having what we would call a shower of rain..........now THAT is FRIGHTENING !!!!!!!!!!!
Lynda


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## teemyob

*tyres*

Considering we had a miserable summer, cold weather tyres would have been a good choice.

Cold weather tyres become even more effective below +10c. Consider that many commuters go out early when the tarmac is cool and drive home when the sun has gone down, cold weather would have been a better bet.

I was watching the BBC news last night/this mornong. Not sure if anyone else noticed the Mercedes C series coupe being pushed in central London (shown over an over again) you may have noticed that the driver failed to turn off the ASR, causing the system to cut in an make his dilema even worse.

Trev.


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## duxdeluxe

Having worked in Oslo winter 2003 (studded tyres in winter for most people) and also lived in Switzerland for 3 years (winter tyres and wheels even on my sports car) in those countries basically if you do not have the proper tyres for the conditions you are held to be to blame for an accident and also possibly your insurance is void in some cases.

Now, we do not see this in the UK and given that the insurance companies will do almost anything to weasel out of a *claim (BBC article)* then if it is was necessary or even desirable in most of England and Wales then surely the insurers would have jumped on it. Thank goodness they haven't done so.


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## paulbeard

Putting aside the fact that most Brit's can't drive in snow and getting back to one of teemyobs original points, a lot of the people on here have paid an awful lot of money for an awful lot of vehicle.

A good pair of winter tyres (a pair only is required for drive wheels only) will cost a similar amount to a good pair of summer tyres. Take your winter tyres to a local fitter and pay them £10-£20 to fit them in the autumn...then go back in the spring and pay another £10-20 to get your summer tyres refitted.

Ok so its maybe another £40 per annum of motoring costs but if you've paid upwards of £20000 for a motorhome (and I'd bet a lot of people on here have and a lot more to boot) its not that much to preserve your investment and your well being. Given how concerned a lot of forum members are about depreciation, minimising the chance of damage of any kind has got to be a priority. Also, as a trade off, you'll be buying new tyres less often as you're splitting your annual mileage between the two sets.

You should not need a different set of wheels - I've got winter tyres on my 2002 Mini Cooper running 16" run-flat rims and its hard to get normal "summer" tyres for these, but I still had no problem buying winter tyres to fit online.

This is NOT just about driving in snow. Winter tyres improve handling and braking in all colder driving conditions, which we defintely do experience every autumn & winter in the UK. Look at it as a bonus that when snow comes around, you'll still be able to get around in all but the worst blizzards.

I admit, the only reason I bothered to fit them originally was because I was taking the mini with me when I went out to live in the French Alps for a ski season. Due to my winter tyres I didn't need to bother with chains at all that season - but that's a false trail because out there the roads are cleared outragously quickly after snowfall. What's more important is that the car was firm footed in the slippy & icy conditions that are prevalent in any sub zero temperatures - not just in the alps but during British winters too.

Increased Noise / decreased mpg arguments are also white elephants - I've experienced neither nor any other downsides in 3 years of use. This isn't any kind of crusade, just tring to dispel misconceptions and explain the point behind the arguments.

Cheers,

Paul


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## teemyob

*Last*



paulbeard said:


> Putting aside the fact that most Brit's can't drive in snow and getting back to one of teemyobs original points, a lot of the people on here have paid an awful lot of money for an awful lot of vehicle.
> 
> A good pair of winter tyres (a pair only is required for drive wheels only) will cost a similar amount to a good pair of summer tyres. Take your winter tyres to a local fitter and pay them £10-£20 to fit them in the autumn...then go back in the spring and pay another £10-20 to get your summer tyres refitted.
> 
> Ok so its maybe another £40 per annum of motoring costs but if you've paid upwards of £20000 for a motorhome (and I'd bet a lot of people on here have and a lot more to boot) its not that much to preserve your investment and your well being. Given how concerned a lot of forum members are about depreciation, minimising the chance of damage of any kind has got to be a priority. Also, as a trade off, you'll be buying new tyres less often as you're splitting your annual mileage between the two sets.
> 
> You should not need a different set of wheels - I've got winter tyres on my 2002 Mini Cooper running 16" run-flat rims and its hard to get normal "summer" tyres for these, but I still had no problem buying winter tyres to fit online.
> 
> This is NOT just about driving in snow. Winter tyres improve handling and braking in all colder driving conditions, which we defintely do experience every autumn & winter in the UK. Look at it as a bonus that when snow comes around, you'll still be able to get around in all but the worst blizzards.
> 
> I admit, the only reason I bothered to fit them originally was because I was taking the mini with me when I went out to live in the French Alps for a ski season. Due to my winter tyres I didn't need to bother with chains at all that season - but that's a false trail because out there the roads are cleared outragously quickly after snowfall. What's more important is that the car was firm footed in the slippy & icy conditions that are prevalent in any sub zero temperatures - not just in the alps but during British winters too.
> 
> Increased Noise / decreased mpg arguments are also white elephants - I've experienced neither nor any other downsides in 3 years of use. This isn't any kind of crusade, just tring to dispel misconceptions and explain the point behind the arguments.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Paul


Why thank you. Well worded, unbiased and experienced opinion.

Trev.


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## teemyob

*Last*



paulbeard said:


> Putting aside the fact that most Brit's can't drive in snow and getting back to one of teemyobs original points, a lot of the people on here have paid an awful lot of money for an awful lot of vehicle.
> 
> A good pair of winter tyres (a pair only is required for drive wheels only) will cost a similar amount to a good pair of summer tyres. Take your winter tyres to a local fitter and pay them £10-£20 to fit them in the autumn...then go back in the spring and pay another £10-20 to get your summer tyres refitted.
> 
> Ok so its maybe another £40 per annum of motoring costs but if you've paid upwards of £20000 for a motorhome (and I'd bet a lot of people on here have and a lot more to boot) its not that much to preserve your investment and your well being. Given how concerned a lot of forum members are about depreciation, minimising the chance of damage of any kind has got to be a priority. Also, as a trade off, you'll be buying new tyres less often as you're splitting your annual mileage between the two sets.
> 
> You should not need a different set of wheels - I've got winter tyres on my 2002 Mini Cooper running 16" run-flat rims and its hard to get normal "summer" tyres for these, but I still had no problem buying winter tyres to fit online.
> 
> This is NOT just about driving in snow. Winter tyres improve handling and braking in all colder driving conditions, which we defintely do experience every autumn & winter in the UK. Look at it as a bonus that when snow comes around, you'll still be able to get around in all but the worst blizzards.
> 
> I admit, the only reason I bothered to fit them originally was because I was taking the mini with me when I went out to live in the French Alps for a ski season. Due to my winter tyres I didn't need to bother with chains at all that season - but that's a false trail because out there the roads are cleared outragously quickly after snowfall. What's more important is that the car was firm footed in the slippy & icy conditions that are prevalent in any sub zero temperatures - not just in the alps but during British winters too.
> 
> Increased Noise / decreased mpg arguments are also white elephants - I've experienced neither nor any other downsides in 3 years of use. This isn't any kind of crusade, just tring to dispel misconceptions and explain the point behind the arguments.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Paul


Why thank you. Well worded, unbiased and experienced opinion.

Trev.


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## duxdeluxe

Thanks Paul

The only reason I got steel wheels for the winter tyres was that it helped to protect the alloys a bit - plus they were a part of the deal when I bought the car!!

You're right about the noise and fuel consumption myths - I noted no difference at all but then again, driving like a hooligan it probably wouldn't make any difference anyway....

If on the continent I would definitely fit winter tyres as I did before. Scandinavia, a different story. Here in the UK?? Not really for me but see the logic.....


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## raynipper

Hi Trev,
I guess jimbo_hippo does have a point.
The last set of tyres bought for the car were chosen for quiet running. The last set I bought for a camper were chosen for long static life.
Horses for courses. 
As the media keeps harping on about the last time we had weather like this was 20 years ago. Maybe three sets of tyres ago.

It's a trade off or compromise. My snow chains are still buried in a pile of boxes ready to sell at the next car boot while the memory is fresh. I'm staying put.

Ray.


----------



## teemyob

*Tyred*

So are we still all of the same opinion as last year? :roll:

TM


----------



## paulbeard

*Re: Tyred*



teemyob said:


> So are we still all of the same opinion as last year? :roll:
> 
> TM


Actually I've changed my opinion 8O

We've just abandoned a trip to friends in NE Lincs from where we live 
in East Yorkshire...not because we couldn't drive perfectly well in our 2-3 tonne campervan with a _PAIR_ of winter tyres on - no not at all, in fact its the first time I've driven it in snow and it drove superbly (in places I was veering off into the 4-6 inches of snow at the side of the road just to try this pair of winter tyres out & no skids or spins at all).

Nope we abandoned the trip because the A roads were chocca with long lines of everyone else crawling along at 20mph, terrified as usual at a bit of snow...so whats the point in me taking precautions, being safe & secure on the road, when noone else is & I still can't get anywhere....?

The only other thing I'll say is what the heck are our local councils playing at? No gritting again where we are for what was a well forecasted fall of snow :evil:


----------



## cabby

IMHO think you are ott teenyob on this one.A bit like all the newscasters and newspapers who always drone on full of doom and gloom.Or are you in the tyre trade.
Down here in the south we get little what I would call bad weather that is unsuitable for driving conditions. Providing one has a quality tyre with plenty of tread you should be able to manage providing you drive in accordance with conditions.Slowly and being aware.
My feeling is that driver training should have included instruction on driving in those type of conditions.
I have been fortunate enough to have had training in many driving courses through work and have been quite able to get to where I want to be.
Should it be that the conditions ars so severe then I stay at home, maybe more should do that as well so that those that can, do.

Merry Christmas.

cabby


----------



## 106573

SPOT ON CABBY!
Tin


----------



## Mick757

Id be interested to know if you can actualy buy 'winter tyres' for many of the low-profile wheels many modern cars have today?

We have almost brand new tyres on a our heavy-fronted 206 diesel, but it just doesnt want to know come the snow. And, its nothing to do with heavy right footedness either. Im told its the low-profile wheels that do it - or dont, in this case.
In years gone by ive thrown a pair of 'town and countries' on the back of say, a Mk3 Cortina come winter, and actively gone round seeking-out the deepest snow just for entertainment purposes. And never had a problem. I just find many of todays cars and tyres not up to the job.


----------



## scouter

Hi there, for snow its definitely the width of the tyre that matters, my old citroen AX diesel (sadly my son has just taken the money and scrapped it) would go anywhere in the snow. Even over the Dales (yorkshire dales) roads that we were told were closed after we'd been thro them.

Up here our councils on the edge of the Pennines, are fairly used to snow and generally manage pretty well, even our cul de sac was gritted on day 2. But yes the standard of driving is pretty poor in snow.

But generally we don't get enough for people to learn properly or for many councils to have enough kit. There's an apocryphal tale of a county surveyor moving from Yorkshire to Devon to find they had little or no snow kit, so he persuaded the council to buy some. The kit rusted away over the next 10 years being only used once, and it wasn't replaced.

The other problem is that our roads are generally so busy that, if there's a problem, not only the traffic is stuck but so are the snow ploughs and the 4x4s and everything else.

There's nothing worse than being able to move in the conditions but being unable to because of stuck cars and lorries.

cheers and enjoy the winter weather, we've had snow ahowers all afternoon so far

alan


----------



## Mick757

Some of the 4x4 drivers have no idea either. Theyve bought them for 'safety' to take the cherubs from front door to classroom door, having no real idea of the notion of what 4x4 is about.

We watched one, rear wheels screaming, trying to get up my mates road one evening. He later questioned the woman about her failure to get up to her house despite having 4x4 in only three inches of snow. She didnt know what he was on about - or understand that she had to change boxes to facillitate the front wheels as well.


----------



## trevd01

Mick757 said:


> Id be interested to know if you can actualy buy 'winter tyres' for many of the low-profile wheels many modern cars have today?
> 
> We have almost brand new tyres on a our heavy-fronted 206 diesel, but it just doesnt want to know come the snow. And, its nothing to do with heavy right footedness either. Im told its the low-profile wheels that do it - or dont, in this case.
> In years gone by ive thrown a pair of 'town and countries' on the back of say, a Mk3 Cortina come winter, and actively gone round seeking-out the deepest snow just for entertainment purposes. And never had a problem. I just find many of todays cars and tyres not up to the job.


Yes you can. As well as the well-known brands there are some that are less well known is the UK. Nokian is an example (no not the mobile phone people) - from Finland.

Here are some that will fit my Volvo V40:

Mytyres Nokian Winter Tyres

Lots of others to choose from. I was toying with these for my Volvo in November, and wish I had now...


----------



## Spacerunner

I've been driving since 1964, I have no idea what winter tyres are or what they do.

I always had to drive to work at least 30 sometimes 50 miles each way 6 days a week for 35 years and never missed a days work in all that time. I have never been stuck in the snow, been hit by another vehicle in the snow, or hit another vehicle in the snow.

I have no incentive to buy winter tyres.


----------



## Mick757

Spacerunner said:


> I've been driving since 1964, I have no idea what winter tyres are or what they do.
> 
> I always had to drive to work at least 30 sometimes 50 miles each way 6 days a week for 35 years and never missed a days work in all that time. I have never been stuck in the snow, been hit by another vehicle in the snow, or hit another vehicle in the snow.
> 
> I have no incentive to buy winter tyres.


Is this a quote by Homer Simpson - before the inevitable?


----------



## Spacerunner

Mick757 said:


> Spacerunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been driving since 1964, I have no idea what winter tyres are or what they do.
> 
> I always had to drive to work at least 30 sometimes 50 miles each way 6 days a week for 35 years and never missed a days work in all that time. I have never been stuck in the snow, been hit by another vehicle in the snow, or hit another vehicle in the snow.
> 
> I have no incentive to buy winter tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a quote by Homer Simpson - before the inevitable?
Click to expand...

Oooohh sh**. Me and my big mouth! 

Haha, don't work anymore so have the choice whether to go out or not.

In this weather we can afford to semi-hibernate, a thing I could only dream of when getting up at for work at 0500 in the morning.


----------



## trevd01

Spacerunner said:


> I've been driving since 1964, I have no idea what winter tyres are or what they do.
> 
> I always had to drive to work at least 30 sometimes 50 miles each way 6 days a week for 35 years and never missed a days work in all that time. I have never been stuck in the snow, been hit by another vehicle in the snow, or hit another vehicle in the snow.
> 
> I have no incentive to buy winter tyres.


Ah yes, we used to live in Hampshire, and hardly had any snow in 20 years. We have been up here in the Pennines for 17 years now, and its a bit different...

I can look out my window and see traffic flowing freely less than a quarter of a mile away. But driving to there from our house is impossible right now (as it was for about five or six days last year).

Why? its about 100 metres below us at the bottom of a hill. Oh yes and we have to get out of our driveway first.

Here's our driveway, with our old Bongo on it last year:










We don't live out in the sticks - the quarter of a mile away is to the centre of our little West Yorkshire town. It's a bit hilly around here. :wink:


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*

Last night a BMW x3 was trying to climb a small snowy hill, there were 5 people trying to push it up the hill. I breezed past in a FWD Audi A2 with winters on.

The problem is, people think winter tyres=snow tyres. They are really cold weather tyres. Anything below +10c and the tyres come into their own, indeed with our summers, they would be better fitted to most cars.

Even in the Alps where mid summer temperatures can reach mid 40c, many drivers just keep winter tyres on all year. They must know something.

But then, that is my opinion.

TM


----------



## Spacerunner

*Re: Tyres*



teemyob said:


> Last night a BMW x3 was trying to climb a small snowy hill, there were 5 people trying to push it up the hill. I breezed past in a FWD Audi A2 with winters on.
> 
> The problem is, people think winter tyres=snow tyres. They are really cold weather tyres. Anything below +10c and the tyres come into their own, indeed with our summers, they would be better fitted to most cars.
> 
> Even in the Alps where mid summer temperatures can reach mid 40c, many drivers just keep winter tyres on all year. They must know something.
> 
> But then, that is my opinion.
> 
> TM


Seriously. How do they work then. Seriously.


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Tyres*



Spacerunner said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last night a BMW x3 was trying to climb a small snowy hill, there were 5 people trying to push it up the hill. I breezed past in a FWD Audi A2 with winters on.
> 
> The problem is, people think winter tyres=snow tyres. They are really cold weather tyres. Anything below +10c and the tyres come into their own, indeed with our summers, they would be better fitted to most cars.
> 
> Even in the Alps where mid summer temperatures can reach mid 40c, many drivers just keep winter tyres on all year. They must know something.
> 
> But then, that is my opinion.
> 
> TM
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously. How do they work then. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Try Here


----------



## waz

Winter tyres should not be an extra cost to motoring as when you have thr winter tyres on t your normal tyres are not being used therefore lasting much longer. Not applicable to motorhomes as they don't normaly do the mileage that cars do
Waz


----------



## pippin

Yesterday evening we drove along well-salted/gritted main roads.

Near our destination we were almost defeated by a steep 25 yards of snow and ice.

Resorted to using the Fiamma grip strips and just made it up.

Am I glad I "wasted" our money on those!

I will definitely be investigating winter tyres.


----------



## Spacerunner

Just did a small search, Nokian winter tyres about £92 each to fit our van. :idea:


----------



## paulbeard

Spacerunner said:


> Just did a small search, Nokian winter tyres about £92 each to fit our van. :idea:


Try mytyres.com - our pair of Maxxis MAW2 van rated winter tyres were £120 delivered in October. Today was their first run out in the snow but I was very impressed - but winter tyres fufil 95% of their purpose in normal britsh wet & cold conditions...effective tread for snow is just a bonus.

To get them fitted chuck a local tyre fitter or garage 10-15 quid, its a quick and easy enough job for them.

edit - should have said, we only run winter tyres on the drive wheels...although this is the first time I've run this van with them we ran our new mini through a ski season in the alps with winters on the front wheels & normal tyres on the rear. Drove in all conditions & never needed to fit the snowchains at all!


----------



## trevd01

pippin said:


> Yesterday evening we drove along well-salted/gritted main roads.
> 
> Near our destination we were almost defeated by a steep 25 yards of snow and ice.
> 
> Resorted to using the Fiamma grip strips and just made it up.
> 
> Am I glad I "wasted" our money on those!
> 
> I will definitely be investigating winter tyres.


Today - Rescued a guy in our cul-de-sac who had been fitting a kitchen for one of our neighbours. He had a big 3.5 tonne Vauxhall FWD van (same as a Renault Master). Could not move at all on the slope. Got my Fiamma Grip strips out, and he started off fine. And then stopped and slid backwards.

We moved him up the road one metre at a time, putting the grip strips under the front wheels, then putting a chock behind when he reached the end of the grip-strip. Took a while!


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*



pippin said:


> Yesterday evening we drove along well-salted/gritted main roads.
> 
> Near our destination we were almost defeated by a steep 25 yards of snow and ice.
> 
> Resorted to using the Fiamma grip strips and just made it up.
> 
> Am I glad I "wasted" our money on those!
> 
> I will definitely be investigating winter tyres.


Pipin did write

"I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between

the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,

the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,

the additional mpg incurred and

that they are usually noisier."

Converted then?

TM :wink:


----------



## pippin

This has been a gripping tread and I have not tyred of the wall to wall information and nobody has over-inflated their importance.

I have valved every contribution despite some pumped-up opinions, but no one has gone off at a radial tangent.

My inner tube thoughts on the subject have not been punctured and I have not been cross-ply by any of the responses.

Now, unless I take the tread too far off tracking - yes I am converted!!


----------



## teemyob

*Converted*



pippin said:


> This has been a gripping tread and I have not tyred of the wall to wall information and nobody has over-inflated their importance.
> 
> I have valved every contribution despite some pumped-up opinions, but no one has gone off at a radial tangent.
> 
> My inner tube thoughts on the subject have not been punctured and I have not been cross-ply by any of the responses.
> 
> Now, unless I take the tread too far off tracking - yes I am converted!!


Magic


----------



## SaddleTramp

I have been driving over 40 years, I have driven in snow at home and abroad, In Poland and Sweden and Switzerland, I have had all sorts of cars, High powered, 4X4, little cars, Big cars, etc etc etc, my latest is I admit a 4x4, there are three things I have never done.

1. Buy snow tyres
2. Stay in when it snows.
3. Got stuck.

It is all a matter of driving sense, I am amazed at the number of drivers who, drive with brakes on, Rev like nutters, If they can't drive in snow, keep off the road.


----------



## teemyob

*Snow*



SaddleTramp said:


> I have been driving over 40 years, I have driven in snow at home and abroad, In Poland and Sweden and Switzerland, I have had all sorts of cars, High powered, 4X4, little cars, Big cars, etc etc etc, my latest is I admit a 4x4, there are three things I have never done.
> 
> 1. Buy snow tyres
> 2. Stay in when it snows.
> 3. Got stuck.
> 
> It is all a matter of driving sense, I am amazed at the number of drivers who, drive with brakes on, Rev like nutters, If they can't drive in snow, keep off the road.


But have you ever bought Winter or Cold weather tyres?
Or is that a trick answer of yours?

TM


----------



## paulbeard

SaddleTramp said:


> ...there are three things I have never done.
> 
> 1. Buy snow tyres
> 2. Stay in when it snows.
> 3. Got stuck.
> 
> It is all a matter of driving sense, I am amazed at the number of drivers who, drive with brakes on, Rev like nutters, If they can't drive in snow, keep off the road.


I've got to say I know exactly where you're coming from...I'd be saying _exactly _ the same thing if I hadn't experienced *winter *(not snow) tyres first hand. Having had experience of the advantages they offer in alpine winters I'd be stupid not to use them here...

That said - everything you say in your last paragraph regarding the typical Englander's driving habits in the snow I completely agree with - and I thinks that's the original point of this thread: "driving ignorance". The point I'm trying to make is that for people with no snow driving experience, winter tyres might either help their traction or at least give them more confidence on the road...so they don't fustrate the rest of us who can drive in the white stuff :wink:


----------



## SaddleTramp

No sorry I haven't, I have never bought any tyres for winter use just ordinary tyres, and if you look where I live I have a steep hill to go up to get to my home from whichever direction I travel, a couple of years ago I had an M6 with traction control (a 5 litre engine) automatic transmission and still had no problems.

my daughter was stuck at Matlock and I fetched her with no problem and passed countless cars abandoned.

and yes it is Driving ignorance.


----------



## badger750

i have never been stuck out in the snow always managed to get about if i really wanted to. I have been lucky years ago when i done some grass track racing which involved mud and snow tyres and only once felt the need to put them on a road car to get about when it snowed, i have had lots of different cars and years ago mostly rear wheel drive which proved to be very much fun in the snow 
when i first started going out with my wife i took her to an industrial estate when it snowed to give her a chance to drive with out the worry about hitting anything but even that didn't inspire her confidence and would rather not go out unless really important 
if i can get away with it i will not go out in the snow in the car due to the other people who just cannot seem to factor in the difference snow makes to stopping steering which causes all the problems


----------



## loughrigg

GerryD said:


> Most of the UK all that is needed is drivers with a lighter right foot.


That would help - I missed getting T-boned last night by a couple of feet. A bloke with a car full of passengers arrived at the end of a side road at what looked like normal driving speed but on sheet ice. As he slide out in front of me, he met the gritted tarmac and stopped dead. Thankfully, there was nothing coming the other way, so I had room to avoid him.

Mike


----------



## Vennwood

I'm sure that winter tyres help. I used them many years ago when we lived in Germany. I even had studded tyres before they were outlawed. They are very useful to drivers that know how to use them. It would be pointless fitting winter tyres then thinking that you are safe and off you go at 100mph into the next wall/tree or unsuspecting driver in front of you.

I think in the majority of cases with some drivers it wouldn't matter if they fitted tank caterpillar tracks they would still get stuck. I've just helped out a young lad in his Focus trying to get up our road - its almost flat by the way. He had his foot hard down on the gas pedal and was skating around going nowhere. He had never driven in snow and nobody had taught him what to do. IMO that's the main problem in this country. We don't get any experience as said by others. 

In Germany all drivers had to pass a test on a skid pan many years ago (don't know if that is still the case) - it was the law back in the 60's. I'm sure it would be a massive benefit in this country today. It doesn't just apply to snow but wet weather, leaves, oil slicks etc. etc.


----------



## Wupert

Vennwood said:


> I'm sure that winter tyres help.
> 
> I've just helped out a young lad in his Focus trying to get up our road - its almost flat by the way. He had his foot hard down on the gas pedal and was skating around going nowhere. He had never driven in snow and nobody had taught him what to do. IMO that's the main problem in this country. We don't get any experience as said by others.
> 
> .


Spot on Venn Snow tyres do help big time

I think the issue is being looked at back to front by some

If the tyres help the "Not so good driver" in adverse conditions it can only be good news

The tyres will also be of great help to experienced drivers.

Incidentally if you have an accident when driving without snow tyres in Austria and other Alpine regions you will be considered responsible.

Been way below freezing here for 9 days


----------



## Losos

*Re: UK Road Conditions & Ignorance Winter Tyres*



teemyob said:


> Here we go again,
> 
> I guess this may not apply to many motorhomers as many of us often go where general road users would not. Many of you may be Skiers who drive to the resorts.
> 
> We have recently spent three weeks in Norway at temperatures as low as -20's c and not seeing Tarmac for days at a time. Weather was foul even for Skandinavia. Snowstorms, extremely low temperature you name it.
> 
> This was my Daily Newspaper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In parts of Southern Norway, they had 60cm or around 2 foot of snow in one night. Despite this, by lunchtime everyone was going about their normal daily business, by Car, Truck & Bus. Everything fucntioned in a normal day-to-day fashion.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago We drove off the DFDS Ferry at Newcastle and tuned to BBC Radio 2. Only to hear Sally Traffics Report. It went along the lines of........
> 
> "WHITE OUT CONDITIONS" "VERY DANGEROUS TO TRAVEL" "TRETCHEROUS CONDITIONS" "MOST APPAULING WEATHER"
> 
> It went on........'Trainspotter' and 'Disco Driver' just rang in from the M4 to say they have been sat in standing traffic for over an hour, beacuse of heavy snowfalls and a Yes again "Total Whiteout Conditions".
> 
> I think if you listen to RADIO 2 or indeed any UK Traffic reports, you will know how excited they can get about adverse weather, often extremely exagerated.
> 
> I have mentioned this before, BUT.... We spend Thousands of pounds on vehicles, upgrades and options. Yet we neglect the only thing that keeps our 2, 4 or however many wheels you have clinging to the road. Tyres, yes that bit of rubber that plants your motor onto the tarmac. I have seen £50,000+ 4x4's stuck in little snow simply because they have worn summer tyres fitted. Brand new £7,000 Hatchbacks sliding around on compacted snow and Trucks sliding off the road again only due to the fact they have the wrong tyres fitted for the season.
> 
> Idiotic or Ignorant? It is your choice.
> 
> Next time your considering spending hundreds or thousands of pounds on your cars or motorhome's. Please give some thought to decent tyres.


*Completely agree *it's such a sensible thing to do. Over here in Czechland *it is mandatory to use winter tyres *(from when the clocks change in Autumn through to clock change in Spring). For my new Sprinter I've specified M&S tyres because we will be travelling in snowy conditions, the gritters get out here and do every road but I still like to use the correct tyres for the conditions.


----------



## Wupert

*Re: UK Road Conditions & Ignorance Winter Tyres*



Losos said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Completely agree *it's such a sensible thing to do. Over here in Czechland *it is mandatory to use winter tyres *(from when the clocks change in Autumn through to clock change in Spring). For my new Sprinter I've specified M&S tyres because we will be travelling in snowy conditions, the gritters get out here and do every road but I still like to use the correct tyres for the conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep
> 
> To me its a simple safety issue that affects driver and other road users
Click to expand...


----------



## Stanner

These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?


----------



## teemyob

*M&S*



Stanner said:


> These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?


Depends where you are buying them from!?

What size do you need?

TM


----------



## Stanner

*Re: M&S*



teemyob said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends where you are buying them from!?
Click to expand...

I assumed they came from M&S?

"These aren't just any old tyres - these are M&S Winter tyres!" :wink:


----------



## teemyob

*Re: M&S*



Stanner said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends where you are buying them from!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assumed they came from M&S?
> 
> "These aren't just any old tyres - these are M&S Winter tyres!" :wink:
Click to expand...

Do you know, I read the sentence and thought that is what you meant!

Only within 28 days at M&S but of you want M+S I think mytyres.co.uk will take them back within 28 days if not happy!


----------



## Losos

Stanner said:


> These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?


 :lol:

I must apologise as I wrote M*&*S when as Teemyob has said the correct designation is M*+*S how do I know, well I just went and looked at the ones on the dogmobile and was surprised to see they are Dunlop Sport M+S I had some vague idea Dunlop didn't make tyres anymore.


----------



## Stanner

Losos said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> These M&S tyres, do they take them back if they don't fit?
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
> 
> I must apologise as I wrote M*&*S when as Teemyob has said the correct designation is M*+*S how do I know, well I just went and looked at the ones on the dogmobile and was surprised to see they are Dunlop Sport M+S I had some vague idea Dunlop didn't make tyres anymore.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that but it was too good not to.....

As to your last point.



> Dunlop Tyres is a British company owned 75% by Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company and 25% by Sumitomo Rubber Industries, which sells Dunlop branded road tyres in succession to the Dunlop Rubber Company.


From 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunlop_Tyres


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*

My nephew got stuck several times in his brand new Mercedes today.

Factory fitted with summer tyres.


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers

It would pay for owners to buy all weather tyres as a rule, rather than summer tyres! Mud and snow tyres are only any good in just that - which is fine for those who get regular heavy doses of snow - and more importantly use their motorhomes in the winter regularly.

Of course, they are not quite so good on ice....so an all weather may fair a little better. But on ice, it makes no difference what you have - if all four are on ice!

In the snow laden countries, they DO NOT SALT the roads, but sweep the snow off, and run on the ice - usually with studded tyres. Quite a strange feeling for us brits, as they handle like they are on rails! The cars don't rust either with the lack of road salt.

Problem with britain is, finding a set up to suit our flash flurries. Studs are no good as we have no ice base, knobbly mud/snow won't grip in the ice and slime after the fresh snow has been treated as there is less rubber in contact with the surface, but will grip fresh snow better, and muddy fields.

At the end of the day - it depends what you use your m/h for and when. Only then can you decide what is best suited - but for the odd weekend away in the winter, your best bet is an all rounder!


----------



## Hintonwood

I am a Courier and in October ordered Michelin Agelis Alpin Winter Tyres for my Van. They were ordered from France via Event Tyres and cost me £ 354 fully fitted. :lol: 

I also ordered a set of Snow Socks for the van (£49) and a set for the Motorhome (£ 62)

I live in Basingstoke and spent 5 hours going 10 miles last night but with the Winter tyres and Snow Socks was able to go on the outside lanes of the dual carriageway and sped up the steep hills littered with jack-knifed artics and tankers, plus many vans and cars. :lol: Without the tyres and Socks I believe I would have had to abandon the Van.

I also had 2 sleeping bags, wellies, shovel etc etc. There was plenty of warning but hardly anyone actually believes it will happen! :lol: :lol:


----------



## Wupert

Rainbow-Chasers said:


> In the snow laden countries, they DO NOT SALT the roads, but sweep the snow off, and run on the ice - usually with studded tyres. er!


Mmmmmm ...........

I live in a snow laden country and the salt goes down before the snow arrives along with the grit

I drive on snow and ice from Dec - March


----------



## Rainbow-Chasers

Wupert said:


> Rainbow-Chasers said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the snow laden countries, they DO NOT SALT the roads, but sweep the snow off, and run on the ice - usually with studded tyres. er!
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmmmm ...........
> 
> I live in a snow laden country and the salt goes down before the snow arrives along with the grit
> 
> I drive on snow and ice from Dec - March
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific, i was thinking further north ie Iceland and surrounds.

Many years ago, I was bored and drove around the world for something to do. I was having severe problems up there, even with the 4x4, and a local garage lad studded my tyres for me.

He explained then, that they would never salt the roads - in favour of studs and a more stable ice base to drive on. It worked quite well!

Was still being a bit of a nancy by their standards though, as I was being careful, even with the studs - and cars were passing me at 50mph on winding lanes! lol!


----------



## raynipper

I guess it's the economics trade off. Like southern councils only stocking a few thousand tons of salt, grit and a couple of trucks to spread it. Northern councils stock much more.

Ironically I bought a set of 6 winter tyres for the Hobby this year only because they were a very good deal.
I have only noticed one downside. That is they pick up dozens of chunks of my gravel drive and throw them out at speed later on the roads.
Just my luck to get one back into my screen by a passing truck.
They are just as quiet and economical as the old regular tyres.

Ray.


----------



## teemyob

*Replies*

Okay, I have listened to the replies form both sides and those on the fence. Even those who would probably claim they have driven around on elastic bands on ice with full grip and traction.

Well here is a thought.

We don't need winter tyres in the UK I hear some say!, Is it not ironic that we have so many 4x4's here?. Indeed more so as a percentage than any Scandinavian Country?

And just to think, if just half of the UK 4x4 drivers drove 2wd cars with winters fitted, how soon the word would spread of their advantages.

TM


----------



## Wupert

Rainbow-Chasers said:


> Wupert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rainbow-Chasers said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the snow laden countries, they DO NOT SALT the roads, but sweep the snow off, and run on the ice - usually with studded tyres. er!
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmmmm ...........
> 
> I live in a snow laden country and the salt goes down before the snow arrives along with the grit
> 
> I drive on snow and ice from Dec - March
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I should have been more specific, i was thinking further north ie Iceland and surrounds.
> 
> Many years ago, I was bored and drove around the world for something to do. I was having severe problems up there, even with the 4x4, and a local garage lad studded my tyres for me.
> 
> He explained then, that they would never salt the roads - in favour of studs and a more stable ice base to drive on. It worked quite well!
> 
> Was still being a bit of a nancy by their standards though, as I was being careful, even with the studs - and cars were passing me at 50mph on winding lanes! lol!
Click to expand...

No probs RC your post is spot on


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*



Rainbow-Chasers said:


> It would pay for owners to buy all weather tyres as a rule, rather than summer tyres! Mud and snow tyres are only any good in just that - which is fine for those who get regular heavy doses of snow - and more importantly use their motorhomes in the winter regularly.
> 
> Of course, they are not quite so good on ice....so an all weather may fair a little better. But on ice, it makes no difference what you have - if all four are on ice!
> 
> In the snow laden countries, they DO NOT SALT the roads, but sweep the snow off, and run on the ice - usually with studded tyres. Quite a strange feeling for us brits, as they handle like they are on rails! The cars don't rust either with the lack of road salt.
> 
> Problem with britain is, finding a set up to suit our flash flurries. Studs are no good as we have no ice base, knobbly mud/snow won't grip in the ice and slime after the fresh snow has been treated as there is less rubber in contact with the surface, but will grip fresh snow better, and muddy fields.
> 
> At the end of the day - it depends what you use your m/h for and when. Only then can you decide what is best suited - but for the odd weekend away in the winter, your best bet is an all rounder!


My brother could not get his VW T5 off the drive for two days. He replaced his flash Bling Alloys shod with Chinese summer tyres and fitted some Agilis 51 M+S on steels that I sold him.

Off the drive and back in work the same day.


----------



## alunj

Im suprised that the Agilis helped . I had those on the T5 never found then much help.
Now I run Vanco Winters all year round. Great in snow fantastic in rain no noticeable change in MPG just feel a bit softer.

We run Vanco Winters and Nokian WR on all three vehicles now

Vancos on the T5s (cheaper than the agelis at about 80 quid)
and Nokian WR Van on the Hymer


----------



## Rosbotham

Of course, regardless of the tyres, it's probably advisable to stay in the car if you lose traction!!


----------



## teemyob

*T5*



alunj said:


> Im suprised that the Agilis helped . I had those on the T5 never found then much help.
> Now I run Vanco Winters all year round. Great in snow fantastic in rain no noticeable change in MPG just feel a bit softer.
> 
> We run Vanco Winters and Nokian WR on all three vehicles now
> 
> Vancos on the T5s (cheaper than the agelis at about 80 quid)
> and Nokian WR Van on the Hymer


We toured Norway in our T5 back in Dec 03/Jan 04 with Agilis 51's on. No problem apart from once getting stuck on the very steep drive down to the cabin we were staying at, had to get chains out.

However, back to my Brother, he had what most would call slicks on to begin with.

Having said that I would fit winters in the future. But not Nokian WR's They wear spectacularly fast.


----------



## alunj

Er indoors managed to get 20k miles out of WR on front of t5 . I only got 15K
On the rear they are upto 40k already. Problem is now that the WR C is the extra load van rated tyre and the grip is nowhere as good. Thats why we changed to the vancos.

My usual plan is to put em on in oct/nov by the time they wear down that they are no use as winters its the summer anyway


----------



## Stanner

http://www.etyres.co.uk/bad-weather-tyres


----------



## teemyob

*Link*



Stanner said:


> http://www.etyres.co.uk/bad-weather-tyres


Thanks Stanna,

Excellent Link

If I had the backing, time I could start up a nice new Business.

Anyone who grabs my idea, please put a tenner into the MHF Charity fund.

Happy winter motoring and Christmas to you all!

TM


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Link*



teemyob said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.etyres.co.uk/bad-weather-tyres
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Stanna,
> 
> Excellent Link
> 
> If I had the backing, time I could start up a nice new Business.
> 
> Anyone who grabs my idea, please put a tenner into the MHF Charity fund.
> 
> Happy winter motoring and Christmas to you all!
> 
> TM
Click to expand...

I have almost identically sized tyres on 2 cars, a 2 tonne MPV/Camper (215/60-16)and a 2 litre estate car (215/55-16).
The MPV has Vredestein All season Quatracs and the estate has Bridgestone Turanza summer tyres, in the weather we've had recently the estate has been all but undriveable but the MPV has been almost as sure footed as anytime. 
When the Turanzas wear out they will be replaced with all weather tyres.
I'm convinced it makes sense.

We get a lot more other weather than we do summer, so why fit "summer" tyres?


----------



## trevd01

Just ordered 4 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme tyres for my Volvo V50 from mytyres.co.uk. Fed up of not being able to get out of my drive/road.

They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?

So that means the bad weather will go in four days (estimated delivery from mytyres) and be mild and dry for the rest of the winter :wink:


----------



## pippin

I shall buy winter tyres next "summer" - they will probably be of more use then, and readily available and cheaper!


----------



## paulbeard

trevd01 said:


> Just ordered 4 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme tyres for my Volvo V50 from mytyres.co.uk. Fed up of not being able to get out of my drive/road.
> 
> They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?


Hope the delivery guy can get to your house... :wink:

The only criticism I have of MyTyres is that their delivery can take a week & their comms are crap...that is to say they won't tell you when the tyres are being dispatched or when to expect them, so they'll just turn up. Not great if you need them in a hurry I'm afraid...


----------



## raynipper

OK, with the amount of interest this thread generated, I should get a few answers.

Now we have 6" snow outside and none of the local roads have been treated. My 4,500kg tag camper has 'winter' tyres on it.
Should I go shopping in the camper or Golf with summer tyres? Bearing in mind the camper is FWD.

Ray.


----------



## roger-the-lodger

It has been thawing gently here (in Cumbria) for 24 hours but we're told there may be more to come!

Regardless of that, I've only just seen this thread and there still seems to be some confusion about winter tyres, snow tyres and cold weather tyres.

My understanding is that there are two main considerations applying to tyres for winter use:

1. The relative hardness or softness of the "rubber" at temperatures below 7C. Some tyres have a silica mix with the rubber which makes it softer and preserves this softness at low temperatures, while conventional tyre rubber hardens significantly below 7C. The ability of the tread pattern to remove water and slush is also significant especially on this type of tyre.

2. Whether or not the tread has a M+S (not M&S!) pattern, M+S standing for Mud and Snow of course. As the name suggests these tyres are often fitted for off-road use (Mud) and the more "aggressive" tread is also useful in soft, powdered snow.

Some folk call the first sort of tyre cold weather tyres and some call them winter tyres. Most people call the second sort snow tyres (when talking of winter use) but some also call them winter tyres and some think that winter tyres necessarily have a M+S tread, including many tyre fitters in my experience. Just to add to the confusion some folk call the first sort snow tyres even though they don't necessarily have a M+S tread! What's in a name (or three) eh? No wonder we're (well, I'm) confused. The advantage of a M+S tyre is, would you believe, its grip in mud or snow! The disadvantages are more road noise, possibly slightly worse vehicle handling on tarmac, increased fuel consumption and, significantly, so I'm told, poor performance on ice unless the tyre has been studded.

As ice-covered surfaces have been a bigger problem than powdered snow for many drivers in recent days this is a bit of a drawback.

I'm told that cold weather tyres without an aggressive M+S pattern are a definite improvement on ice not only in comparison with conventional tyres but also in comparison with M+S tyres but I can't verify this from my own experience. I have found them effective on frozen hard-packed snow (very common here recently) but I honestly doubt that anything but studs is that effective on verglas or black ice. Because of their softer "rubber" at low temperatures and their usually more effective sipe design for removing water and slush, cold weather tyres are also surprisingly effective in powdered snow as long as it's not too deep (and this is something I have experienced).

I drive a Discovery 3 with Continental Conti 4x4 Contact tyres for summer and Conti 4x4 Winter Contacts for winter. The latter are good on ice and moderate snow but I wouldn't want to push them through deep snow without front wheel chains which are another topic entirely on a Disco! My MH (3.5t) doesn't hibernate in winter but has a rest when the weather is as it has been recently - I'm just not masochistic (or brave) enough and I can't afford any more tyres!!!

The summer and winter Contis are good for mild off-road work (access tracks and so on) but I'd certainly recommend M+S for any serious off-road business. Then again call me old-fashioned but I'd rather be in a Defender for that.

If you think I've got this wrong then fire away. If anyone can comment from experience of using M+S tyres on ice I'd be most interested and I'll bet so would many others. 

Whether it's just a matter of knowing how to drive is certainly dubious in the conditions in the Pennines in the last few weeks. Round here cold weather (winter) tyres make sense to me even when the winter is less hard than in the recent cold spell. Dry tarmac performance of Conti 4x4 Winter Contacts is just fine except for the cost of extra wear because of the softer "rubber".

Roger


----------



## rogerblack

Roger
Thanks for the detailed analysis of Winter v M+S etc. My problem is not so much trying to drive the motorhome in winter weather, rather how to avoid getting stuck at any time of year on wet grass or mud due to the poor traction on my FWD Peugeot Boxer based motorhome. So I am not looking for grip on black ice or fast clearance of snow or mud whilst driving along, or for safe performance when cornering, rather my need is for decent grip on starting forward from static on soft/slippery ground such as wet grass on a slight slope. Has anyone any experience of Winter and/or M+S tyres helping with this problem? I had even considered whether tyres with 'off road' tread pattern would help. The issue of reduced life due to poor wear when using on tarmac roads as all weather tyres is not a particular problem for us, since our mileage low enough that we normally have to replace tyres due to age causing wall cracking rather than tread wear. Any additional road noise would probably also not be so noticeable alongside the diesel engine, rattling window screens & cooker shelves, etc. . . 
cheers
Roger (t'other one, not the lodger!)


----------



## raynipper

I had thought of a device that just bolted to two wheel nuts that would perform the same as chains. But of course the cost and effort of patenting and putting it into production is just not worth the effort.

Ray.


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*

Well for anyone interested or maybe those going Skiing and what the best of both worlds.

You can get Fresh New Winter Tyres on Brand New Wheels Balanced and Ready to go....

Prices for a 2.8JTD Fiat Ducato with Premium Quality Toyo H09 Winter Tyres come in around £130 each.

That way you could run on Winters in Winter and Summers in Summer!

Or you could sell your old Summers with Wheels on ebay for those the stick in the muds!

www.mytyres.co.uk

TM


----------



## trevd01

trevd01 said:


> Just ordered 4 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme tyres for my Volvo V50 from mytyres.co.uk. Fed up of not being able to get out of my drive/road.
> 
> They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?
> 
> So that means the bad weather will go in four days (estimated delivery from mytyres) and be mild and dry for the rest of the winter :wink:


Four days my a**e. Still waiting. :evil:


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*



trevd01 said:


> trevd01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just ordered 4 Vredestein Wintrac xtreme tyres for my Volvo V50 from mytyres.co.uk. Fed up of not being able to get out of my drive/road.
> 
> They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?
> 
> So that means the bad weather will go in four days (estimated delivery from mytyres) and be mild and dry for the rest of the winter :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Four days my a**e. Still waiting. :evil:
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with mytyres (well - their tyres!).

I buy 90% of our Tyres from them, must have bought 60 or more tyres from them and never had any delivery issues. They have sometimes said on the web page *These tyres are subject to a delayed delivery period or something similar and on some advice notes stated they would be 3 weeks, only to find they get delivered a couple of days later by DPD.

Have you checked with mytyres to make sure the order has not gone adrift?

TM


----------



## trevd01

*Re: Tyres*



teemyob said:


> Sorry to hear you are having trouble with mytyres (well - their tyres!).
> 
> I buy 90% of our Tyres from them, must have bought 60 or more tyres from them and never had any delivery issues. They have sometimes said on the web page *These tyres are subject to a delayed delivery period or something similar and on some advice notes stated they would be 3 weeks, only to find they get delivered a couple of days later by DPD.
> 
> Have you checked with mytyres to make sure the order has not gone adrift?
> 
> TM


Er yes, and yes. I've phoned them four times now. Changed my order to Pirelli Alpins, as these were 'immediately available' (but dearer).

Another call tomorrow... I'll be fine for next winter though?


----------



## teemyob

*Winter*

Not got past this winter yet!

No skiing at Aviemore the other dya because they could not dig the road out!

TM


----------



## loughrigg

trevd01 said:


> They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?


I had a similar problem last year (took delivery of the MH with cracked tyres in January). I tried numerous companies, also looking for Vredestein Winters, and got the same "out of stock" response. No offer to order any in until I called Camskill. Their response was excellent - "We can get them from Holland for delivery (to me) the day after tomorrow". They arrived as promised with a date mark less than a month old.

Mike


----------



## teemyob

*Winters*



loughrigg said:


> trevd01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are coming from Germany - apparently there are no winter tyres left in the UK?
> 
> 
> 
> I had a similar problem last year (took delivery of the MH with cracked tyres in January). I tried numerous companies, also looking for Vredestein Winters, and got the same "out of stock" response. No offer to order any in until I called Camskill. Their response was excellent - "We can get them from Holland for delivery (to me) the day after tomorrow". They arrived as promised with a date mark less than a month old.
> 
> Mike
Click to expand...

How do you rate the Vredstein winters? 
Are they Comtrac?

The Comtrac seem very popular with Continental motorhomers!

TM


----------



## loughrigg

*Re: Winters*



teemyob said:


> How do you rate the Vredstein winters?
> Are they Comtrac?
> TM


As a newbie, I can't really comment from experience, but in terms of performance so far, they seem fine. They feel very sure footed - the immediate impression was much grippier than the Michelin campers that were fitted when I test drove.

The only problem I had was working out the correct running pressure. Vredestein didn't seem to want to provide a recommendation for the Comtracs on a Boxer, so I worked it out based on axle weight and the pressure range on the tyre wall. I haven't noticed any appreciable noise running at 55 psi all round - that seems to give me a good balance between ride and handling. If I put a few more pounds in (taking the tyre up to the recommended max pressure) the handing deteriorates noticeably, especially when running light on weight.

Mike

Mike


----------



## trevd01

*Re: Tyres*



trevd01 said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear you are having trouble with mytyres (well - their tyres!).
> 
> I buy 90% of our Tyres from them, must have bought 60 or more tyres from them and never had any delivery issues. They have sometimes said on the web page *These tyres are subject to a delayed delivery period or something similar and on some advice notes stated they would be 3 weeks, only to find they get delivered a couple of days later by DPD.
> 
> Have you checked with mytyres to make sure the order has not gone adrift?
> 
> TM
> 
> 
> 
> Er yes, and yes. I've phoned them four times now. Changed my order to Pirelli Alpins, as these were 'immediately available' (but dearer).
> 
> Another call tomorrow... I'll be fine for next winter though?
Click to expand...

Update: The tyres have been less than a mile away for a week! Neither Mytyres or my (normally excellent) local garage had let me know :evil:

They will be fitted first thing in the morning.

Expect spring to be bursting out all over immediately (although there is still one pile of snow in our road, some in our garden and in the "wall bottoms" in our valley)


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Tyres*



trevd01 said:


> trevd01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear you are having trouble with mytyres (well - their tyres!).
> 
> I buy 90% of our Tyres from them, must have bought 60 or more tyres from them and never had any delivery issues. They have sometimes said on the web page *These tyres are subject to a delayed delivery period or something similar and on some advice notes stated they would be 3 weeks, only to find they get delivered a couple of days later by DPD.
> 
> Have you checked with mytyres to make sure the order has not gone adrift?
> 
> TM
> 
> 
> 
> Er yes, and yes. I've phoned them four times now. Changed my order to Pirelli Alpins, as these were 'immediately available' (but dearer).
> 
> Another call tomorrow... I'll be fine for next winter though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Update: The tyres have been less than a mile away for a week! Neither Mytyres or my (normally excellent) local garage had let me know :evil:
> 
> They will be fitted first thing in the morning.
> 
> Expect spring to be bursting out all over immediately (although there is still one pile of snow in our road, some in our garden and in the "wall bottoms" in our valley)
Click to expand...

You can always test them here!

I remember May 1987 I think it was. Drove from Manchester to Asbourne to do a job. Went Via Buxton. As soon as I drove out of Buxton in my Company VW T2 2 litre twin carb van I hit deep snow. I drove okay as the rear engine and decent tyres gave me enough grip to overtake the slower vehicles. But only got delayed by an hour back to Manchester.

When I got back, my boss asked where the bloody hell I had been, 
"stuck in snow boss" I said. 
"It is May, what do you take me for?"

Never believed me and we did not have mobile camera phones back then!

So you never know, but I think we shall get another dusting.

TM


----------



## rogerblack

I took teemyob's recommendation on the Toyo H09 from mytyres.co.uk, just the front tyres without rims as I aim to use them all year round - my main aim is to get some grip on wet grass, mud etc. Ordered them online on Friday, their acknowledgement estimated delivery by Frioday 29th, they were in fact delivered just before 9am this morning i.e. 4 working days. On Monday, they e-mailed me a link to their carrier's tracking page so I was able to follow their progress across Germany and into the UK. Good work in my book, based on this I wouldn't hesitate to recommend mytyres.co.uk. I'm now off to one of their local listed fitters to get them fitted on the 'van, will let you know if there is any noticeable difference in noise.
cheers
Roger


----------



## JockandRita

rogerblack said:


> I took teemyob's recommendation on the Toyo H09 from mytyres.co.uk, just the front tyres without rims as I aim to use them all year round - my main aim is to get some grip on wet grass, mud etc. Ordered them online on Friday, their acknowledgement estimated delivery by Frioday 29th, they were in fact delivered just before 9am this morning i.e. 4 working days. On Monday, they e-mailed me a link to their carrier's tracking page so I was able to follow their progress across Germany and into the UK. Good work in my book, based on this I wouldn't hesitate to recommend mytyres.co.uk. I'm now off to one of their local listed fitters to get them fitted on the 'van, will let you know if there is any noticeable difference in noise.
> cheers
> Roger


Hi Roger,

I'd be really pleased to hear how you get on with them over the year. My problem too is not so much the snow, but the wet grass and lack of grip.

*Trev*, (Temmyob) I did try to get a pair of M+S tyres for the FWD MH, when we discussed tyres back in Sept/Oct 08. 
The best tyre supplier in my area (used by most car dealers in P/boro), couldn't source either M+S or winter tyres anywhere for my size (215/75 R 16 C) stating that they hadn't started production yet. That's why I ended up with the Barum Vanis summer tyres.

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## teemyob

*M+S*



JockandRita said:


> rogerblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I took teemyob's recommendation on the Toyo H09 from mytyres.co.uk, just the front tyres without rims as I aim to use them all year round - my main aim is to get some grip on wet grass, mud etc. Ordered them online on Friday, their acknowledgement estimated delivery by Frioday 29th, they were in fact delivered just before 9am this morning i.e. 4 working days. On Monday, they e-mailed me a link to their carrier's tracking page so I was able to follow their progress across Germany and into the UK. Good work in my book, based on this I wouldn't hesitate to recommend mytyres.co.uk. I'm now off to one of their local listed fitters to get them fitted on the 'van, will let you know if there is any noticeable difference in noise.
> cheers
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> I'd be really pleased to hear how you get on with them over the year. My problem too is not so much the snow, but the wet grass and lack of grip.
> 
> *Trev*, (Temmyob) I did try to get a pair of M+S tyres for the FWD MH, when we discussed tyres back in Sept/Oct 08.
> The best tyre supplier in my area (used by most car dealers in P/boro), couldn't source either M+S or winter tyres anywhere for my size (215/75 R 16 C) stating that they hadn't started production yet. That's why I ended up with the Barum Vanis summer tyres.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jock.
Click to expand...

Mytyres stock winter tyres all year. As do many major stockists. After all it snows in parts of Scandinavia all year.

For M+S................

You could have ordered them here - get fitted localy prepaid

These are M+S Too

Maybe these were in production?


----------



## trevd01

I've had my Michelin Pilot Alpins on my Volvo V50 for a few days now and they are not noticeably any noisier than the Pirelli P Zeros that are now standing in my garage until they get re-fitted late March. No new snow here, (plenty on the tops still though), but very icy tonight. February is traditionally the snowiest month here, so maybe I will get a chance to test them soon.










*Michelin Pilot Alpin*

The tyres don't look anything out of the ordinary until you see the thousands of sipes that I understand is the real secret of the grippiness of modern winter tyres. They do have M+S and snowflake markings, so can be used in countries where that is a requirement in winter. I would certainly consider fitting Michelin Agilis Camping on our Ducato which although not a winter tyre do have M+S markings (as an ex LandRover offroader I can see the shoulder design of these would be great in mud)










*Michelin Agilis Camping*

_ps the van tyres are only just over half the price of my car tyres_


----------



## raynipper

Hi Teemyob.
Another author agreeing with you in the Times.................

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/car_clinic/article7008435.ece?&EMC-Bltn=AGJEL2F

Ray.


----------



## pilchard

Agree 100% with GerryD , We have normal road Camping Road tyres on our Motorhome and were able to drive in snow when it was 7" deep in Wiltshire getting out of a CL site for some 8 Miles with easy use of throttle before reaching Main Roads and we were booked in for Shepton Mallet Show and managed to arrive before it was cancelled. Mick


----------



## trevd01

It snowed a couple of inches this afternoon here. Straight up the hill to my house like it was just raining. Fantastic. 

No noticeable effect on fuel consumption over the first week (and I am fanatical about economy) - in fact yesterday achieved my best ever trip to work according to the in-car computer: 52.1 mpg for a 28 mile mixed hilly A roads, M1, Leeds traffic in a 2 litre diesel auto

(Volvo V50 Michelin Pilot Alpins).


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*



raynipper said:


> Hi Teemyob.
> Another author agreeing with you in the Times.................
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/car_clinic/article7008435.ece?&EMC-Bltn=AGJEL2F
> 
> Ray.


Thanks Ray,

But it just proves my point about ignorance.

The first responder

Richard Evans wrote:

"Ok, these tyres will help but I don't think it's worth the time and cost when you consider that some winters we don't have any snow at all."

and then went on to say...

"I am lucky enough to be able to walk a few miles to work in the snow but if I couldn't then I would take a few days holiday before spending hundreds on tyres."

What can I say to that? Other than I wonder what he would think if the local ambulance drivers had a similar attitude should he need to call them!
TM


----------



## teemyob

*Winters*

ONLY for us northerners !

Maybe a time to try/test them out!


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres - Winter*

Just a Reminder!

"VThe results showed the fastest braking tyre was Goodyear's Ultragrip 7+ which managed to stop in less than 18 metres. The Continental Sport Contact 2 summer tyre took 43.14 metres in like for like testing. This equates to around 6 car lengths. The Continental summer tyres was still traveling at 20 mph at the point where the Goodyear Ultragrip 7+ had stopped !!"

TM :wink:


----------



## trevd01

Swapped the wheels on my Volvo V50 on Friday - I'm back on my winter tyres now through to March...


----------



## Stanner

trevd01 said:


> Swapped the wheels on my Volvo V50 on Friday - I'm back on my winter tyres now through to March...


I've just had 4 of these fitted to my car ready for the anticipated "hard winter" to come.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Ice-Touring-ST.htm

They were half the price of the rubbish Bridgestone Turanzas that were on it - last winter the Turanzas wouldn't grip if the car was on any slope of more than a few degrees. 
No noticeable extra noise and according to the trip computer no loss of MPG either.

Two hardly worn 215/55-16 Bridgestone Turanzas for sale if anyone fancies practicing their ice skating skills.


----------



## teemyob

*Tyres*

Ice Touring are good tyres, British made too I think!

TM


----------



## pippin

Have recently fitted Michelin Agilis Alpin to the fronts of our FWD Transit MH.

The tyre tread is impressive _cf_ the Michelin Camping originally fitted.

No noticeable extra noise and no apparent effect on mpg.

Time will tell if they have better grip on snow/mud/grass but they could hardly be worse than the useless Camping originals.


----------



## teemyob

*Original*



pippin said:


> Have recently fitted Michelin Agilis Alpin to the fronts of our FWD Transit MH.
> 
> The tyre tread is impressive _cf_ the Michelin Camping originally fitted.
> 
> No noticeable extra noise and no apparent effect on mpg.
> 
> Time will tell if they have better grip on snow/mud/grass but they could hardly be worse than the useless Camping originals.


Like you said, nothing could be worse than the XC's.

I think the Alpin should be far superior

TM


----------



## trevd01

trevd01 said:


> Swapped the wheels on my Volvo V50 on Friday - I'm back on my winter tyres now through to March...


First snow this morning where I live...


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Tyres*



teemyob said:


> Ice Touring are good tyres, British made too I think!
> 
> TM


Yep - the depot manager where they were sent for fitting was truly impressed by that.

205/55-16 - £70 each fitted and folk try to say proper winter tyres are expensive. The totally useless Bridgestones that were on those wheels were £130 each when I priced some replacements.


----------



## oldun

*Re: Tired*



teemyob said:


> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
Click to expand...

So how much would it cost me:

1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?

8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!

I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Tired*



oldun said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
Click to expand...

Don't get the wheels just the tyres @ roughly the same price.


> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.


You don't you just replace the tyres once.


> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.


Once at the beginning and then when you replace the tyres.


> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?


Of course they are they have exactly the same speed rating and load index as ordinary tyres.


> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?


See above - i.e. on the motorhome.


> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?


No because you won't be replacing the "summer" tyres.



> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!


You've lost me there - If you aren't wearing out both sets of tyres at the same time how can they cost any extra?



> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.


They only have to save your life once to be worth 2.17p/mile.

As I've said above I now use all-season/winter tyres all year round. Use summer tyres in winter and it may cost you everything - use winter tyres in the summer an it may cost you a fraction of 1p/mile.


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Tired*



oldun said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?
> 
> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!
> 
> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.
Click to expand...

What size are your tyres?


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Tired*



oldun said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?
> 
> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!
> 
> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.
Click to expand...

I would image they will be either 215/65/16 or at biggest 225/65/16

I would suggest something like these


----------



## oldun

*Re: Tired*



Stanner said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't get the wheels just the tyres @ roughly the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't you just replace the tyres once.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once at the beginning and then when you replace the tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they are they have exactly the same speed rating and load index as ordinary tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See above - i.e. on the motorhome.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No because you won't be replacing the "summer" tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've lost me there - If you aren't wearing out both sets of tyres at the same time how can they cost any extra?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They only have to save your life once to be worth 2.17p/mile.
> 
> As I've said above I now use all-season/winter tyres all year round. Use summer tyres in winter and it may cost you everything - use winter tyres in the summer an it may cost you a fraction of 1p/mile.
Click to expand...

Two points - tyres on my motorhome do not wear out (6000 miles a year) they get too old to be used after 5-7 years. So both sets would get too old in the same period.

I assumed that winter tyres would only be used in the winter. Why use winter tyres for 365 days of the year when one would only expect to use them once for a few days every three years or so. If only one type of tyre is to be used then it's far better to use the one that is better suited for 99.9% of the time.

My calculations were based on the fact that I would need two sets of tyres and wheels and that I would therefore have to change them over twice a year.

The idea of using non-suitable tyres for 99.9% of the time is laughable to say the least.

If winter tyres are better in the summer then why do the manufacturers spend millions of pounds developing two different types?


----------



## Stanner

*Re: Tired*



oldun said:


> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't get the wheels just the tyres @ roughly the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't you just replace the tyres once.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once at the beginning and then when you replace the tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they are they have exactly the same speed rating and load index as ordinary tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See above - i.e. on the motorhome.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No because you won't be replacing the "summer" tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've lost me there - If you aren't wearing out both sets of tyres at the same time how can they cost any extra?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They only have to save your life once to be worth 2.17p/mile.
> 
> As I've said above I now use all-season/winter tyres all year round. Use summer tyres in winter and it may cost you everything - use winter tyres in the summer an it may cost you a fraction of 1p/mile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two points - tyres on my motorhome do not wear out (6000 miles a year) they get too old to be used after 5-7 years. So both sets would get too old in the same period.
> 
> I assumed that winter tyres would only be used in the winter. Why use winter tyres for 365 days of the year when one would only expect to use them once for a few days every three years or so. If only one type of tyre is to be used then it's far better to use the one that is better suited for 99.9% of the time.
> 
> My calculations were based on the fact that I would need two sets of tyres and wheels and that I would therefore have to change them over twice a year.
> 
> If winter tyres are better in the summer then why do the manufacturers spend millions of pounds developing two different types?
Click to expand...

You miss my point entirely..................

In my view we get far more weather suitable for all-season or winter tyres than we do suitable for "just summer" tyres so I just fit tyres suitable for the worst of our weather all the time.

Coping with our few weeks of summer on winter tyres is no problem as they do not perform noticeably worse than summer tyres in summer conditions (when we have them).
But in ALL other conditions and especially in temperatures below 7degrees C all-season/winter tyres perform markedly better than summer tyres which can lose 85% of their grip at low temperatures because they are made from the "wrong sort of rubber".

So far as I am concerned (and based upon my actual personal experience) it is summer tyres that you refer to here..............
"The idea of using non-suitable tyres for 99.9% of the time is laughable to say the least."

Why do you assume that SUMMER tyres are more suitable for use 99.9% of the time than proper all-season/winter tyres?
Do you enjoy SUMMER 99.9% of the year? If so you clearly don't live in the UK.

One final point IF (as you say) you don't ever wear your tyres out and IF you used winter tyres all year round and IF (which I doubt) they did happen to wear noticeably faster than summer tyres - would it matter?

PS I didn't say winter tyres are better in the summer I just said they were "no worse" - whereas summer tyres are demonstrably and potentially fatally worse in the winter.


----------



## Jented

Hi.
In1947,when the snow was up to the top of telegraph poles up in Derbyshire,my father got around with no trouble at all,he had a D8 crawler tractor digging out the farms. Now with todays technology,rubber tracks and all,why not use a D8,for a base vehicle,go anywere,(over traffic in the way lol),no more having to get good natured,happy c/vanners with their 4x4s to pull us out the mire,and last but not least,only TWO tracks to replace,result.
Come to think of it,"James Herriot",managed to get all over the Yorkshire dales (goc)in all weathers,without ABS,EBD,etc and on tyres that i doubt had M/S stamped on the side,perhaps his secret was M/S inner tubes? 
Ted.
PS. Only Avin a Larph


----------



## JockandRita

Jented said:


> Come to think of it,"James Herriot",managed to get all over the Yorkshire dales (goc)in all weathers,without ABS,EBD,etc and on tyres that i doubt had M/S stamped on the side,perhaps his secret was M/S inner tubes? Ted.
> PS. Only Avin a Larph


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


----------



## teemyob

*Re: Tired*



Stanner said:


> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oldun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pippin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect for most of us that it is a trade-off between
> 
> the additional cost of fancy winter tyres,
> 
> the likelihood that we will ever really need to use them,
> 
> the additional mpg incurred and
> 
> that they are usually noisier.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, winter tyres cost no more than summer ones, often less.
> 
> MPG increase is negligible
> 
> The noise level in most motorhomes would not be noticeable unless you are driving on studded winter tyres.
> 
> I wonder whether those stranded on the M11 a few years ago ever wonder about The likelihood of ever needing them.
> 
> Trev.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much would it cost me:
> 
> 1. To get a set of 4 wheels and winter tyres for my motorhome?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't get the wheels just the tyres @ roughly the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. To get a garage to swap the tyres over twice a years? I am too old and the wheels and tyres are too heavy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't you just replace the tyres once.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. When do I out on the winter tyres and when do I take them off? If I leave it too late then all the garages will be too busy to do the work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once at the beginning and then when you replace the tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Are the winter tyres just as safe as my summer tyres when I pound along the motorway at 70 mph?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they are they have exactly the same speed rating and load index as ordinary tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Where do I store the five huge wheels and tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See above - i.e. on the motorhome.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. As tyres need to be changed every fives years or so won't this double the cost of my replacement tyres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No because you won't be replacing the "summer" tyres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 new tyres in 5 years (around £1000 and including the cost of the wheels) plus £60 a year for the garage to change them over makes a total of £1300. For a total mileage of 30000 miles is about 4.33p a mile or to put it another way the winter tyres will cost me an extra 2.17p a mile!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've lost me there - If you aren't wearing out both sets of tyres at the same time how can they cost any extra?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that is not large compared to the 20p per mile for fuel but it is significant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They only have to save your life once to be worth 2.17p/mile.
> 
> As I've said above I now use all-season/winter tyres all year round. Use summer tyres in winter and it may cost you everything - use winter tyres in the summer an it may cost you a fraction of 1p/mile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Two points - tyres on my motorhome do not wear out (6000 miles a year) they get too old to be used after 5-7 years. So both sets would get too old in the same period.
> 
> I assumed that winter tyres would only be used in the winter. Why use winter tyres for 365 days of the year when one would only expect to use them once for a few days every three years or so. If only one type of tyre is to be used then it's far better to use the one that is better suited for 99.9% of the time.
> 
> My calculations were based on the fact that I would need two sets of tyres and wheels and that I would therefore have to change them over twice a year.
> 
> If winter tyres are better in the summer then why do the manufacturers spend millions of pounds developing two different types?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You miss my point entirely..................
> 
> In my view we get far more weather suitable for all-season or winter tyres than we do suitable for "just summer" tyres so I just fit tyres suitable for the worst of our weather all the time.
> 
> Coping with our few weeks of summer on winter tyres is no problem as they do not perform noticeably worse than summer tyres in summer conditions (when we have them).
> But in ALL other conditions and especially in temperatures below 7degrees C all-season/winter tyres perform markedly better than summer tyres which can lose 85% of their grip at low temperatures because they are made from the "wrong sort of rubber".
> 
> So far as I am concerned (and based upon my actual personal experience) it is summer tyres that you refer to here..............
> "The idea of using non-suitable tyres for 99.9% of the time is laughable to say the least."
> 
> Why do you assume that SUMMER tyres are more suitable for use 99.9% of the time than proper all-season/winter tyres?
> Do you enjoy SUMMER 99.9% of the year? If so you clearly don't live in the UK.
> 
> One final point IF (as you say) you don't ever wear your tyres out and IF you used winter tyres all year round and IF (which I doubt) they did happen to wear noticeably faster than summer tyres - would it matter?
> 
> PS I didn't say winter tyres are better in the summer I just said they were "no worse" - whereas summer tyres are demonstrably and potentially fatally worse in the winter.
Click to expand...

Very well put and saved me some finger bashing.

TM


----------



## teemyob

*test*

Watch this

Or this

Or maybe this


----------



## erneboy

There was some insurance guy from the ABI on Moneybox saying that fitting winter tyres may invalidate your insurance because it is a modification. I could hardly believe my ears. BBC Radio 4 Saturday's Moneybox, listen again if you want to, Alan.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Hi TM, i watched both of your links.

I had to smile at one of the comments.
On snow tyres you can stop easier and not hit the car in front, then get rear ended by the car behind. :lol: 


dave p


----------



## teemyob

*Cop out*



erneboy said:


> There was some insurance guy from the ABI on Moneybox saying that fitting winter tyres may invalidate your insurance because it is a modification. I could hardly believe my ears. BBC Radio 4 Saturday's Moneybox, listen again if you want to, Alan.


Thanks Alan,

Yet another cop out.

I guess if it wen to court and you could prove they were an option as stated in the handbook (like ours) then the insurers would lose. Especially if it were winter.

I could understand if the Insurer refused to pay out if you drove to The Arctic circle on summer tyres in Winter (Which I have done once) and then had an accident (But did not have an accident).

TM


----------



## JackieP

erneboy said:


> There was some insurance guy from the ABI on Moneybox saying that fitting winter tyres may invalidate your insurance because it is a modification. I could hardly believe my ears. BBC Radio 4 Saturday's Moneybox, listen again if you want to, Alan.


I read about this earlier in the week so decided to contact my insurers to ask. It may help someone to know that SAGA Insurance do not regard this as a modification, do not require notification that tyres have been changed, and do not increase the insurance premium.


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## teemyob

*Weather*



cabby said:


> IMHO think you are ott teenyob on this one.A bit like all the newscasters and newspapers who always drone on full of doom and gloom.Or are you in the tyre trade.
> Down here in the south we get little what I would call bad weather that is unsuitable for driving conditions. Providing one has a quality tyre with plenty of tread you should be able to manage providing you drive in accordance with conditions.Slowly and being aware.
> My feeling is that driver training should have included instruction on driving in those type of conditions.
> I have been fortunate enough to have had training in many driving courses through work and have been quite able to get to where I want to be.
> Should it be that the conditions ars so severe then I stay at home, maybe more should do that as well so that those that can, do.
> 
> Merry Christmas.
> 
> cabby


Just looking Back to January this year, a good while after I started this thread.

Found this on Google

And this in the Eastbourne News
SNOW WATCH 2/12/2010

01/12/2010

Due to the current snow the Course and Clubhouse are currently CLOSED.

The main access road is closed and conditions are set to get worse throughout Thursday with signs of improvement over the weekend.

The Course will remain closed on Friday 3/12/2010 with a review of the Clubhouse on Friday.

At present the Clubs Dinner Dance on Saturday 5/12/10 remains on as does the raffle Sunday 6/12/10 (The competition is unlikely to proceed).

Visitors should be aware of the local conditions, especially East Dean Road before venturing out.

Prospects of the course opening prior to the weekend is Zero

Contact to the club can be made via email which are being monitored.

Updated 1/12/2010 at 10:20am

:roll:


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## teemyob

*Learn*

Seems we just never learn.

Just been watching the Chaos on the news. Stranded cars, cars with no, traction and drivers going too fast or too slow.

We seemed to have escaped the snow here. But tomorrow, I have to go up to the Peak District.

But one of the most ironic things I have seen this winter. A £140,000 Mercedes 4x4 Snow Plough Stuck in Snow. The Vehicle was being driven by an Operator with 37 years experience. But the Snow plough was fitted with Summer tyres and had no snow chains.

TM


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## coppo

We had to leave site today in the MH for lpg, up a long, uphill snow covered track, needn't have worried as the 6 winters coped brilliant :wink: 

Paul.


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## ched999uk

I have been told that the brand new snow ploughs that Gatwick airport bought are all not running. They are unable to cope with the cold weather!!!! They have 'seized'!!!

This is not a joke it was the situation a few hrs ago. The mechanics are trying to get them up and running!!!!


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## teemyob

*Poor*



ched999uk said:


> I have been told that the brand new snow ploughs that Gatwick airport bought are all not running. They are unable to cope with the cold weather!!!! They have 'seized'!!!
> 
> This is not a joke it was the situation a few hrs ago. The mechanics are trying to get them up and running!!!!


That is another one, lack of or poor maintenance.

TM


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## JockandRita

I managed to test out my new Blizzaks on the front axle of the MH today, when pulling up out of Broonfools car park and up the inclined exit route at Newark. 
Apart from the main routes, everywhere else was covered in snow, including the access road leading to our cul-de-sac and property. No problems. I am very pleased with them. :thumbleft: 

Cheers,

Jock.


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## coppo

JockandRita said:


> I managed to test out my new Blizzaks on the front axle of the MH today, when pulling up out of Broonfools car park and up the inclined exit route at Newark.
> Apart from the main routes, everywhere else was covered in snow, including the access road leading to our cul-de-sac and property. No problems. I am very pleased with them. :thumbleft:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jock.


Yes they are cracking tyres Jock, good grip in the snow and excellent in the mud, as we have found out this winter.

We have x4 on the rear and x2 Toyo H09 on the front.

Paul.


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## ched999uk

*Re: Poor*



teemyob said:


> ched999uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been told that the brand new snow ploughs that Gatwick airport bought are all not running. They are unable to cope with the cold weather!!!! They have 'seized'!!!
> 
> This is not a joke it was the situation a few hrs ago. The mechanics are trying to get them up and running!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> That is another one, lack of or poor maintenance.
> 
> TM
Click to expand...

They are the Brand new ones, less than a year old that they can't get working!!!! The old ones are working round the clock!!!


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## teemyob

*Re: Poor*



ched999uk said:


> teemyob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ched999uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been told that the brand new snow ploughs that Gatwick airport bought are all not running. They are unable to cope with the cold weather!!!! They have 'seized'!!!
> 
> This is not a joke it was the situation a few hrs ago. The mechanics are trying to get them up and running!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> That is another one, lack of or poor maintenance.
> 
> TM
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are the Brand new ones, less than a year old that they can't get working!!!! The old ones are working round the clock!!!
Click to expand...

It still needs to be started up, maintained, greased etc.

TM


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