# Please don't do this !!



## flobin

It may have seemed a good idea at the time to share everybodys wild camping spots but i can assure any contributors that you will regret it.
The Germans made the same mistake and started a magazine with wild camping info and as a consequence all the best spots became overcrowded and shut down by local authorities particularly in Greece. the people who original frequented these places are very annoyed at the puplishers,who where motorhomers themselves but had not thought it through! My advice is to only tell people of your secret spot if you are sure you would like to spend your holiday with them and that they will not post it on sites like this. Half the enjoyment is exploring and finding places for yourself,thats the adventure,isn't it?


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## tokkalosh

Point taken.

We are a sharing community here though 8)


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## artona

Hi



> We are a sharing community here though


good point Tricia but lets just keep it between the 14000 of us  

stew


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## peedee

Another reason why the database should be subscriber only  

peedee


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## tokkalosh

I agree with that peedee

Wonder what others think :?:


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## artona

Hi

Subscriber only


stew


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## 101405

*wild camping and Aires*

I agree its not a good idea to be broadcasting the special stops you find , we drove down to our local beach this afternoon to find about 8 MHs of various sizes, 2or3 the size of 18tonners wild camping this not what you want to find on a sunday afternoon stroll, we our selves have wild camped mostly on our own or with one other van,if it begins to look like an ancampment, we are off, motor homes are becoming a problem, there are 4 campsites nearby, the polcia local will move you on from Torre del mar because there are 2 campsites at the end of town, The French dont like you using their Aires because when they find them full up with a load of etrangeres they complain like hell , and as they are french Aires its a bit of a cheek to brand them about , if you want to come and spend the winter here use the campsites thy are not expensive its still quite cheap! if you want an overnight stop off site its fine but when 5-6 vans have wind breaks/ washing lines/dogs roaming free its no wonder the policia move you on. its about respect!


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## ralph-dot

This was flobin's first post, hope they didn't join just to try to preserve their secret spots.

Ralph


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## mangothemadmonk

peedee said:


> Another reason why the database should be subscriber only
> 
> peedee


Is it not? 8O

Johnny F


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## ralph-dot

actually flobin is right though, if you want to wild camp you do not want to advertise it as it is asking for bother. Authorities just see TRAVELLERS and obviously (to them) want it stopped and the problem moved on. 

Ralph


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## nukeadmin

> The French dont like you using their Aires because when they find them full up with a load of etrangeres they complain like hell , and as they are french Aires its a bit of a cheek to brand them about


as far as my experience goes the french dont care whether you are french, German or English etc, the Aires are there usually to encourage tourism, i.e. providing a place within a village for you to stop off and lighten your pockets in the local boulangerie etc. We spent >6months living in France on our van and never once had any issues from using Aires, in fact quite the reverse the French were very friendly 

There are dozens of guides that list them and online resources


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## 96962

Ralph 

is this not the same point I was making which you condemned me for? True I went a little further than flobin but as I said I've seen this hapening for years in other areas, to the point where I find fell walkers carrying guide books rather than maps.

It may seem a small innocuous thing to put an entry in a database but the consequences can be greater, so in my view there's a fine balance to be drawn.

I also tend to a view that if you make things too easy for people they get less out of it, maybe you even lead them into something they may otherwise not have done or vice versa: Adventure starts in the smallest of ways.

Tim


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## sallytrafic

I also think it needs to be remembered that when wild camping you tend to go there and decide at the time if its going to be right for you on this occasion

If there is one site in a neighbourhood suitable for a wild camp there tends to be more.

One of the wild camps that I have entered on the database was occupied by a couple of travellers when I last went to use it, but was empty a few days later. How do I know? Well I eventually camped in a very similar position about 2 miles away.

Its also personal choice. I have edited and checked many of the wild camp entries on this database I probably mentally rejected half of them straight away. Example a carpark at night on the front at Brighton or the end of a cul-de-sac adjacent to a motorway and occupying what might be the turning area for the nearby house , no I don't think so. What doesn't suit me might suit you though after all the contributor used them. 

I bought my van in order to be able to wild camp, seeing wild camp entries gives me the confidence to try, this database is a useful resource giving examples of places and giving areas where people have done it. 

Regards Frank


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## ralph-dot

> Ralph
> 
> is this not the same point I was making which you condemned me for? True I went a little further than flobin but as I said I've seen this hapening for years in other areas, to the point where I find fell walkers carrying guide books rather than maps.
> 
> It may seem a small innocuous thing to put an entry in a database but the consequences can be greater, so in my view there's a fine balance to be drawn.
> 
> I also tend to a view that if you make things too easy for people they get less out of it, maybe you even lead them into something they may otherwise not have done or vice versa: Adventure starts in the smallest of ways.
> 
> Tim


Actually what I was getting at is that a lot of wild campers are getting the rest of us motorhomers a bad name.

Ralph


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## peedee

mangothemadmonk said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another reason why the database should be subscriber only
> 
> peedee
> 
> 
> 
> Is it not? 8O
> 
> Johnny F
Click to expand...

I think members can also see it, perhaps I am wrong.

peedee


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## mark_2cv

I don't seem to be able to...
I think the idea is very good and thank all involved very much for the hard work involved, but as someone who as yet not even used their van, it doesn't make planning our first trip into France any easier.
I joined MHF without hesitation as I assumed I had access to all the resources, not just some!


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## sallytrafic

Mark I've pm'd you but here for the benefit of others is what I said

_If you can't use the database then there is something wrong at your end

If you can't just use the map part its because you haven't entered a campsite yet but that is just part of the database output you can still do most of it by using *'find a campsite'.*_

Regards Frank


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## DABurleigh

Mark,

If you haven't visited a site or parking place with your van since Christmas where it is not already in the database, I suggest you enter either of these two sites close, and probably whose existence is known, to you:

http://www.myccc.co.uk/MA_MembersArea/SiteFinder/SiteDetails.aspx?SiteId=6290

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/Planni...=CROSSWAYS&site=CROSSWAYS&region=-1&county=-1

Once approved, you will then have access to the Google map on MHF.

Are you really unwilling to do this, or has MHF misled you, or am I missing your point?

Dave


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## mark_2cv

Hi Frank and Dave
Maybe I have a problem my end - I'll look in to it..
I was just struck by the catch 22 situation of not knowing any places, so not in a position to find any places 8O


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## Boff

*Re: wild camping and Aires*

Hi,

some comments from me as a fellow German motorhomer:
There is indeed a German list of "wild spots", but this is not published by any of the "official" motorhome magazines, it is an entirely private initiative. I once had obtained a copy of this list, but have disregarded it because it is a pure address list without any in-depth information.

Another list, which at least differentiates between "official" aires and real "wild spots", is currently published via the Internet. The editors of this list are of the opinion that "the more spots are published the more alternatives there are, reducing the impact on the individual spot". I strongly disagree with them about this, in my opinion there will always be a few rotten apples who spoil any site they can find, and when finally height barriers are erected they move on to the next place. Because of this disagreement I do not publish any wild spots on their list, only officially approved stopover sites and aires.

Please do not mix up these lists with the "official" guides like the "Bordatlas". The Bordatlas, like the competiting guides edited by the "Promobil" magazine, only list sites that are officially approved by the owner and/or local council.

Now with Greece there is another story behind it: An official ban on wild camping exists in Greece already for decades, however for many years this has not really been enforced. This has over the years lead to certain excrescences (not sure if this is the right word), like dozens of MHs staying for weeks if not months on the same spot, littering the environment. And I do not want to know how they disposed their black water. For some years now the police has actually begun to enforce the wild camping ban, thus many of these "illegal camp sites" were dissolved and some of the especially persistent wild campers (some of them came back within hours after they were moved...) were heavily fined. Some of these people then vented their anger in letters to the editors of the MH magazines or posts in MH forums, pretending to be the poor victims of malevolent authorities.

The situation in Spain seems to be pretty much the same as in Greece.



silversurfa said:


> IThe French dont like you using their Aires because when they find them full up with a load of etrangeres they complain like hell , and as they are french Aires its a bit of a cheek to brand them about...


Now this is absolutely not true. OK, there may be the odd French motorhomer cultivating Anglo-French rivalries, but the aires are open for everyone (who pays respect to the written and unwritten rules of the system, in other words: applies common sense...), and the vast majority of the French MHers very proudly appreciates and supports this. If an aire becomes very popular, then the French motorhome clubs even try to use this fact as a lever to move the local councils to either extend the aire or create new ones in the vicinity.

So, in the end, it is still up to us and our ability to use simple common sense: No problem to use any officially approved place, be it an "aire", a "stellplatz" or a proper camp site. And on all other places keep a low profile, don't stay there with more than 2-3 units or for more than max. 2 nights, and most important: Leave nothing behind except your tyre tracks!

Nevertheless, having had one really bad experience (I had published a wild spot in Germany on one of the above mentioned lists, only to find some "static motorhomes" there some months later, and again some months later a height barrier :evil: ), I would appreciate if (at least the Wild Camping spots) in our database were only accessible by subscribers.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## ralph-dot

Very good post Gerhard.

Ralph


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## Suenliam

We do not use aires (yet) or wild camp. However, I can understand the concern about advertising special places. I think some (all?) of the campsites I have added and will add, are special. I must confess I selfishly hesitated to add them because I thought "what if they are full when I arrive?!" But my enthusiasm for the places and the appreciation I know others have for such places - mostly municipals and v.quiet independent ones - won, hence the entries. 

Thanks to Frank again for telling me how to show site locations. Its great being able to see the sites on the satellite view. 

Although we do not use Aires, or experience of provincial French village/town sites shows the French to be friendly, helpful and welcoming although "not in your face" type of way. Most people we find reflect your attitude - if you are helpful so are they, if you are friendly so are they etc. etc. 

Agree excellent post by Gerhard. 

Sue


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## vicdicdoc

If all this info is available to anyone - why pay & join ? . . I'm sure that there must be hundreds out there who just lurk & view with interest without worrying about a 10 post limit on posting, OK, a lot of the stuff is available in books or other websites but to have it all here in one place FREE is a bit much . . I think it should be 'members only' access


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## woodcut

*MEMBERS ONLY*

HI ALL 
I agree with other members you pay the fee and the answers are free.

Jeff...................


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## Spacerunner

I think 'Wild Camping Spots ' is a misnomer. After all we should not be camping in these spots but just parking up for a few hours. When using these places we are always as discrete as possible with no equipment outside the 'van. We even put the exterior silver screens on the inside and use as few interior lights as possible. We should take a leaf out of Ray Mears' book and make sure we leave no trace of our passing and disturb the locality as little as possible. I'm absolutely convinced that the higher profile we show the bigger target we become for legislation and taxing.


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## peedee

Can a moderator or Dave clarify the levels of access and what each can do?
As far as I can see there are three:

Guest: limited read facility of what?

Member: posting limit but appears not to have any read limits except possibly members bar?

Subscriber: full access, unlimited postings and discounts

It would be nice to see it clarified on the left hand menus

peedee


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## peedee

peedee said:


> Member: posting limit but appears not to have any read limits except possibly members bar?
> peedee


See a member is limited to 5 posts for a taster.

peedee


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## ralph-dot

There are links on other websites, that direct people straight to our Campsite Database.

Ralph


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## peedee

Well I don't mind posting info for subs but ****** if I am going to post anymore for the cheapskates. Be interested to know who has posted 95 percent of the sites subs or who? Can members post sites? I don't think "Guests" have any access to this information.


peedee


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## nukeadmin

the levels of access are as follows:

Anyone - Can read the forums posts (They cannot use the search facility for the forums)

To see what you have access to as anyone, logout of mhf and start to try and use the site 

Members - Can post up to 5 times (Cannot use the search facility for the forums)

Subscriber has access to do everything and use everything bar the campsite map and brochure facility (This is purely to ensure that the database will grow in size) you only need enter one "approved" entry to gain access. By Approved I mean an entry with sufficient data to be of use to someone else, i.e. no entering rubbish data simply to get access. Each entry is checked before being approved.


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## ralph-dot

Members need only add a MH Friendly Parking Place to get access, i.e. somewhere in your town centre were a motorhome can park. You only need to enter minimal information for car parks, after all, they are not campsites. This would also be very helpful, as I for one usually tend to say away from town centres, as you never know if you will get parked. I have added several around my own area and we could do with more round the country.

Ralph


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## nukeadmin

> There are links on other websites, that direct people straight to our Campsite Database.


urls Ralph ?



> Can members post sites?


Yes they can



> Don't think "Guests" have any access to this information.


Correct

So in fact by other sites linking to the campsite database simply means we attract more members in the long term as they will have to join MHF as a member to access the database, and then see everyone raving about the map and so will need to add an entry to access that, and eventually as happens a lot they decide to subscribe


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## ralph-dot

One is on Graham Hadfields website motorhome friendly parking places.

http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/Default.htm

Ralph


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## Don_Madge

tokkalosh said:


> Point taken.
> 
> We are a sharing community here though 8)


This what happens when the places get popular. 26 units were parked on this beach area.

I took these pics last month on one of the very popular free parking areas on the Algarve. This spot was not as bad as some.

Is this what you really want?


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## peejay

Bit of clarification needed here maybe??

Nobody is suggesting that you give away your all time favoutite 'secret' stoppovers, what we are trying to do here is build a comprehensive and informative/accurate list of stopover places for motorhomers, something that many have been trying to do for years, either in book, or online form. Ours is probably unique because you can also list the bad places as well as the good, there are no constraints to advertising as in many lists and the majority of places have been actually visited by members with first hand experience, its not just copied from another guide, so you're getting first hand opinions, a unique aspect I think.

I dont see our database as a spoiler for all those magic places that you want to keep secret, surely the more info that is input means that the spread of motorhomes in these places is more even as the choice becomes more, as opposed to someone posting a one off magic spot and everyone else invading that spot? Having said that, there is no pressure to enter your favourite spots, keep them secret by all means, but why not enter others you have visited?

There are many 'definitive' guides for motorhome stoppovers, in my opinion the best online resource for aires at the moment is the campingcar-infos website, I don't see anyone complaining about their list spoiling it for the rest, far from it, it is looked upon with high regard and as possibly 'the' best and accurate reference for aires in France and possibly beyond, what we want to do is improve on that excellent facility Eurpoe-wide and i think we (or more accurately you, the members with your input) are doing a pretty good job so far....

It seems to me that the rapid increase of opinion because of the recent improvements to the database and the upsurge in popularity shows that we are now getting it right and finally, the database is getting very, very good.

Keep them entries coming....

pete


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## peedee

peejay said:


> the best online resource for aires at the moment is the campingcar-infos website,
> pete


And they have just this month updated their TomTom and ASCII download files, brilliant.

peedee


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## peedee

Don Madge said:


> This what happens when the places get popular. 26 units were parked on this beach area.


Ugh! Not my scene Don and if i remember right this spot is pretty isolated so they ain't spending any money at the local.

peedee


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## sallytrafic

peedee said:


> Don Madge said:
> 
> 
> 
> This what happens when the places get popular. 26 units were parked on this beach area.
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh! Not my scene Don and if i remember right this spot is pretty isolated so they ain't spending any money at the local.
> 
> peedee
Click to expand...

mind you enjoyed the eye candy 

Frank


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## Guest

ralph-dot said:


> One is on Graham Hadfields website motorhome friendly parking places.
> 
> http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/Default.htm


That is just one of a number of links on my web site. They are there because the information is potentially useful to users of my web site and complements the information which I have gone out and obtained. I believe that having links to various different sites built up as a result of different approaches enables people to more easily obtain the big picture.



peedee said:


> Well I don't mind posting info for subs but ****** if I am going to post anymore for the cheapskates. Be interested to know who has posted 95 percent of the sites subs or who? Can members post sites? I don't think "Guests" have any access to this information.


The idea behind my web site was to gather information which could be made *freely available* to anyone who wanted it which is why publicising my web site has been via a number of on-line forums and by contacting magazines. Presumably some people will avoid it on principle because it is free, but I can live with that.

Graham


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## Don_Madge

peedee said:


> Don Madge said:
> 
> 
> 
> This what happens when the places get popular. 26 units were parked on this beach area.
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh! Not my scene Don and if i remember right this spot is pretty isolated so they ain't spending any money at the local.
> 
> peedee
Click to expand...

Pete,

I'ts not our scene any more, being loners/isolationists it's the last place we want to be.

This shot of the same spot was taken 12 years ago when we considered it crowded if four vans were there. The restaurant had to ga as it did not meet EU regs but it served bloody good meals.










This shot was taken the same year on an isolated beach that not many people visited as it was along a 8km dirt road.










I don't think we will winter in the Algarve again, the west coast is beautiful but can get very windy.

Don


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## peedee

GJH said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I don't mind posting info for subs but ****** if I am going to post anymore for the cheapskates. Be interested to know who has posted 95 percent of the sites subs or who? Can members post sites? I don't think "Guests" have any access to this information.
> 
> 
> 
> The idea behind my web site was to gather information which could be made *freely available* to anyone who wanted it which is why publicising my web site has been via a number of on-line forums and by contacting magazines. Presumably some people will avoid it on principle because it is free, but I can live with that.
> Graham
Click to expand...

Graham,
Well I was having a particularly bad day when I wrote the above. Nuke did defend his reasoning behind the way he has made the access like it is and he should know what is best for himself and the site. My site is also free to access and has both links to MHF and your Parking site but only to the home pages. However, mine is a hobby site and the costs of running it are very low otherwise I guess, like you, I wouldn't do it.

It just seems to me that there are too many willing to gobble up information for free and not willing to put anything back in. Out of a membership of over 14,000 only 40 have entered 5 or more sites and most of them look like they are subscribers?

peedee


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## Guest

peedee said:


> Well I was having a particularly bad day when I wrote the above. Nuke did defend his reasoning behind the way he has made the access like it is and he should know what is best for himself and the site. My site is also free to access and has both links to MHF and your Parking site but only to the home pages. However, mine is a hobby site and the costs of running it are very low otherwise I guess, like you, I wouldn't do it.
> 
> It just seems to me that there are too many willing to gobble up information for free and not willing to put anything back in. Out of a membership of over 14,000 only 40 have entered 5 or more sites and most of them look like they are subscribers?


I don't have any problem with Nuke deciding how he wants to run his web site. It's his business and if he wants to restrict access to parts of it to paying customers that's his decision.

On the subject of membership, though, I think I've read in earlier posts (no doubt someone will correct me if this is wrong) that 14,000 is the headline figure for the number of people who have become members at some time and that the number of active viewers (as opposed to subscribers) of the forum is far less than that.

I don't know whether it is the case that people are necessarily unwilling to put anything back in. Unable may be the word rather than unwilling. I think there was a post earlier in this thread from someone who has just got or is just about to get a MH and simply doesn't have any knowledge of campsites to add.

As regards costs. My site doesn't cost very much in cash terms because it is subsidised by my business but it does cost a lot in time - time which could be spent creating extra products for my business. Life isn't all about money though. When I first identified a need for the information I publish on my site I found several organisations sitting back asking for people to make contributions of such information but I couldn't find anyone who was actively going out to ask for and find it. If I were simply running a hobby site rather than a free site I should probably not have put the effort in and, instead, just sat back and joined them.

Graham


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## 102098

peedee said:


> It just seems to me that there are too many willing to gobble up information for free and not willing to put anything back in. Out of a membership of over 14,000 only 40 have entered 5 or more sites and most of them look like they are subscribers?
> 
> peedee


While I can see your reasoning here, what about folks like myself that are new to motorhoming? I've added 2 sites to the database, basically because that's the only 2 sites I've visited with the m/h..... but the database will, I'm sure, be a great resource for next month when I'm touring, and I'll also try to add many more then too.

I think there needs to be some sharing of 'free' information to let people see what the quality and depth of info there is on the site and hopefully they will see the benefits of subscribing.


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## peedee

bearkit said:


> I think there needs to be some sharing of 'free' information to let people see what the quality and depth of info there is on the site and hopefully they will see the benefits of subscribing.


You mean a bit like the porn sites  It should not be beyond Nukes capabilities to provide a few free site pages even for "Guests" Point taken about newbies Graham and Bearkit but even the Clubs don't give you all their guides free and certainly not the European site guides which after all could not be compiled without the large contribution made by their "subscribers".

Sure most of us know there are not over 14000 active members but even if you allow for the "leavers" and those that know very little, that will still leave an awful lot of members who could contribute but haven't.

peedee


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## Guest

peedee said:


> It should not be beyond Nukes capabilities to provide a few free site pages even for "Guests"


Perhaps what is needed is an update to the Advantages of being a Subscriber page to bring it up to date and deal with aspects like access to the campsite database being an extra on top of subscription.



peedee said:


> Point taken about newbies Graham and Bearkit but even the Clubs don't give you all their guides free and certainly not the European site guides which after all could not be compiled without the large contribution made by their "subscribers".


But I don't recall an instance of a facility included in ones subscription being discontinued within the subscription period - effectively what has happened with the need to have at least one "APPROVED" entry in the database in order to gain access to the map.



peedee said:


> Sure most of us know there are not over 14000 active members but even if you allow for the "leavers" and those that know very little, that will still leave an awful lot of members who could contribute but haven't.


But that's the nature of a forum. Some people are more active than others for all sorts of reasons and some people are active at certain times and inactive at others, again for all sorts of reasons. However, if the majority of subscribers want a forum for active members only then lets have that stated up front as well.

Graham


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## Don_Madge

Sure most of us know there are not over 14000 active members but even if you allow for the "leavers" and those that know very little, that will still leave an awful lot of members who could contribute but haven't. 

peedee

Pete,

Many members like me have great difficulty finding their way round facts, it's not the easiest site to navigate.

Making long/lat mandatary in the camp site base rules me out to start with along with a lot of other people.

Now if it was as simple as your site to get around I would not have any problems.

Don


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## 102098

peedee said:


> You mean a bit like the porn sites
> peedee


How very DARE you!  ahem, I wouldn't know about such things.......

Yes, perhaps that's the way to go... a few samples.

I have to say that the new campsite map addition is a really good feature.

Moderator edit, this following information from Bearkit is a little misleading now that the new campsite map is up and running.. you can do it that way but You DO NOT need to know the Latitude & Longitude to enter a campsite ...see the following post

@Donmadge....... use multimap and find the site using that then at the bottom part of that page it will give you lat/long co-ordinates.


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## spykal

Don Madge said:


> Making long/lat mandatary in the camp site base rules me out to start with along with a lot of other people.
> Now if it was as simple as your site to get around I would not have any problems.


Hi Don

The way you enter a new site is not as hard as you may think ...in fact it takes longer to describe than do....

Just read the sticky about "how to do it" on the homepage.... or click on this LINK <<< Edit ...Or read Peedee's spot on explanation below... go on, please have a go at entering some...  :lol:

All the difficult stuff is taken care of :roll: all you need to know is the location of the campsite and be able to find it on the map which is presented to you during the entry of the site. YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THE LATITUDE & LONGITUDE before you start.

Please follow the link above for instructions...

When you have entered a site the admin staff will check it out before it appears on the map... please be a patient while this happens.

mike


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## ralph-dot

[/quote]Making long/lat mandatary in the camp site base rules me out to start with along with a lot of other people.


> How many time do does this need explaining, you do not have to enter coordinates, you only need to click on the map at the end of the process. If you haven't seen it explained before its probably because there are too many threads on the subject and you have to read the right ones.
> 
> Ralph


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## peedee

Don Madge said:


> Many members like me have great difficulty finding their way round facts, it's not the easiest site to navigate.
> 
> Making long/lat mandatary in the camp site base rules me out to start with along with a lot of other people.
> 
> Don


Its not that difficult Don and you do not have to know the latitude and longitude

Click on the top picture "Campsite Reviews" 
Click on "Add a Wild Camping Spot / Campsite"
or use left hand menu "Add a Campsite" you should then be on the entry page which is largely a case of just using the pull down menus. If you don't know the answers leave them blank unless they are mandatory.
I find it easier to ignore the latitude and longitude but it is very useful to try and find the campsite website to refer to.

Once you have completed this page click on "Go to the next page" this saves the data and flags it up to be checked by mods. You are then taken to the map page. Click on roughly where you think the site is and a red balloon should appear, zoom to it and click on the map again to move it to where you think the site is. You can progressively do this until you have got it right. I find it very useful to change the map view to satellite and very often the view is good enough for you to see the pitches and the site details.

Click on save the map.

Do not try to correct any errors after you have saved any data or positions, wait until you get an email saying it is approved then go in and check for errors and edit it if necessary.

Hope that helps.

peedee


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## peedee

ralph-dot said:


> How many time do does this need explaining, you do not have to enter coordinates, you only need to click on the map at the end of the process. If you haven't seen it explained before its probably because there are too many threads on the subject and you have to read the right ones.
> 
> Ralph


Don has been away so he probably missed them and with messages running at an all time high it is almost impossible to read what you have missed. I also find it very handy to use Google Earth or Autoroute to pre locate a site.

peedee


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## Don_Madge

Mike/Pete 

Thanks for the info I'll have a go.

Dare I ask (I don't wish to upset anybody) can I enter a couple of sites in Turkey?

Don


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## spykal

Hi Don

As far as I see it you will be able to enter them.. no problem, but the map coverage is not too good in Turkey... only the main roads around Ankara...but with your detailed knowledge of the country you should be able to position them OK.... mind you it may be better to go for an easy one where there are roads on the map for the first effort. :roll: 

mike


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## autostratus

I've been so encouraged by recent information that I have finally made an entry.
I too thought it was complicated but it isn't as bad as I thought.

By the way.
I didn't see a spot to enter my name. Does the system pick that up?


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## spykal

autostratus said:


> I didn't see a spot to enter my name. Does the system pick that up?


Hi Gillian

Yes it enters your name automatically....

your entry is Here<<

Mike


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## peedee

Graham


> Perhaps what is needed is an update to the Advantages of being a Subscriber page to bring it up to date and deal with aspects like access to the campsite database being an extra on top of subscription.


I also said the same in another post, it is not easy to quickly identify levels of access.



> But I don't recall an instance of a facility included in ones subscription being discontinued within the subscription period - effectively what has happened with the need to have at least one "APPROVED" entry in the database in order to gain access to the map.


True but it was necessary to get people to enter sites, including me. The database was stagnating. The addition of the map has made a big difference and with a few more tweeks 
the information available will be the biz. I have already used it to plan my next journey. I think Nuke should have gone even further like no access unless you have entered at least one review or site! :twisted:



> But that's the nature of a forum. Some people are more active than others for all sorts of reasons and some people are active at certain times and inactive at others, again for all sorts of reasons. However, if the majority of subscribers want a forum for active members only then lets have that stated up front as well.


Agree but we are not talking about the forum but about access to a database which requires more effort both to contribute and maintain.

peedee


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## Guest

peedee said:


> I also said the same in another post, it is not easy to quickly identify levels of access.


Glad we agree on something :lol: :lol:



peedee said:


> True but it was necessary to get people to enter sites, including me. The database was stagnating. The addition of the map has made a big difference and with a few more tweeks the information available will be the biz. I have already used it to plan my next journey. I think Nuke should have gone even further like no access unless you have entered at least one review or site!.


I don't agree with that I'm afraid - it's like a club magazine saying "we're not getting enough reader input so we're increasing your subscription rate mid-year". When I worked in IT one of the rules was to ensure that maintenance of any database was the job of somebody who had an interest in making sure it was maintained properly. Putting obstacles in the way of maintenance could easily lead to stagnation again after an initial flurry of activity.



> Agree but we are not talking about the forum but about access to a database which requires more effort both to contribute and maintain.


Disagree again. Given that you have to be a forum subscriber before having access to the database, it's all part of the forum.

Graham


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## Don_Madge

How does one get the place names on the map Turkey's a big country and without names it's very hard to locate a place.

Don


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## sallytrafic

GJH 

I don't understand your point from a few posts ago when you say things have changed and we have removed something you had.

A little while ago there was a database with no map it had around 1200 entries and was full of errors. 

If you haven't entered an entry you now have a database with nearly 1700 entries many of them have been improved by editing, 

you are certainly no worse off for your £10 

Regards Frank


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## Don_Madge

Don Madge said:


> How does one get the place names on the map Turkey's a big country and without names it's very hard to locate a place.
> 
> Don


Mike,

I sorted it out by using google maps which had the place names on it. I will now sit back and await the results. You never know I might have got it right.

Don


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## peejay

Don Madge said:


> How does one get the place names on the map Turkey's a big country and without names it's very hard to locate a place.
> 
> Don


Its the same with Greece Don, the mapping isn't brilliant there either, all mine are as accurate as i can get them with a co-ord disclaimer in the text.
Be nice to see a few Turkish ones on the map 

pete


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## sallytrafic

Hi Don Campsite admin here 

I reckon that when there is an out of the way place and we need an expert to tell us where it is then we will be asking

Don Madge 

How did you find the whole entering experience? There is another thread (search on Niggles) to put anything that you feel could be improved

Regards Frank


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## Don_Madge

sallytrafic said:


> Hi Don Campsite admin here
> 
> I reckon that when there is an out of the way place and we need an expert to tell us where it is then we will be asking
> 
> Don Madge
> 
> How did you find the whole entering experience? There is another thread (search on Niggles) to put anything that you feel could be improved
> 
> Regards Frank


Frank,

Once I get some instrutions I can understand I can usually get it right. 
It's when I encounter a problem that I come unstuck.

I will wait and see the results before having another go.

Don


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## Duadua

It would be useful to see the roads in the Eastern part of Turkey on a map. 

I know they exist as I toured round there upto the Russian, as it was then, Iranian and Iraqi borders about 30 years ago on a motorcycle and it is on my list of summer hols with the family with the MH., so any plotted camp site details would be great.

Last time I took a road which was described by the guide book I had as being for the adventurous with a curfew at night.

I couldn't understand why "for the adventurous" when we started out on tarmac, then tarmac with holes, then holes and no tarmac, then through stone and mud villages with no roads, then boulders and then army / police check points / outposts at strategic points, each within sight of the next.

At one outpost, at the side of what was now simply a trackful of loose boulders for I seem to remember 30 odd miles, which all bikers will know is not much fun with a heavy touring bike and pillion, we were invited (told) to get off our bike and have a cup of tea (well small glass of tea). After half an hour we left and proceeded on our way. Came across a river. Got off bike and waded up and down stream to find a crossing point. Finally chose a point where the water was up to the level of the silencer (BMW K100 in those days), had to get through without stalling or stopping or that would have been the end of the bike. 

Finally go through and looked over my shoulder and saw the policeman / army official we had spent 1/2 an hour with, on a tall horse, checking we had gone on our way, as we had explained, and not gone over the border into Iran!

As I say 25 odd years ago. 

Fantastic scenery, can't wait to get back.

Might choose a different route now I suppose.

I digress, but a map of Turkey with the roads on it would be useful.

Duadua


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## spykal

Hi Don

Well done

I have just approved the campsite at Kusadasi that you have entered .. It is the first entry in Turkey...

I do understand that with very few roads showing on the map adding an exact location is going to be more difficult there than say in the Cotswolds :lol: but anyone thinking of visiting is ( I hope) going to do some more homework before setting off to Turkey so I think all you can do is just posiition the sites as best you can :wink: ( maybe make a note in the details that the geo position may not be exact)

Now that you have seen that it is there if you wish to add anything or edit it you can access your own entries and edit them from the edit button down on the right on the details page of the campsite database... it takes you back through the proceedure but you will only have to add or alter just what you want....including the positioning.

Mike


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## Guest

sallytrafic said:


> I don't understand your point from a few posts ago when you say things have changed and we have removed something you had.
> 
> A little while ago there was a database with no map it had around 1200 entries and was full of errors.
> 
> If you haven't entered an entry you now have a database with nearly 1700 entries many of them have been improved by editing,


Hello Frank.

It's simple. A little while ago any subscriber could access the database. Now a subscriber needs to enter details of a site before access is given. Therefore, the access which was available has been removed. Whether that is significant in terns of the £10 subscription fee is irrelevant, it happened.

Graham


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## sallytrafic

GJH said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your point from a few posts ago when you say things have changed and we have removed something you had.
> 
> A little while ago there was a database with no map it had around 1200 entries and was full of errors.
> 
> If you haven't entered an entry you now have a database with nearly 1700 entries many of them have been improved by editing,
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Frank.
> 
> It's simple. A little while ago any subscriber could access the database. Now a subscriber needs to enter details of a site before access is given. Therefore, the access which was available has been removed. Whether that is significant in terns of the £10 subscription fee is irrelevant, it happened.
> 
> Graham
Click to expand...

With the greatest respect that is not true you have the same access to the database as you always have had - try IT

Frank


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## DABurleigh

"But I don't recall an instance of a facility included in ones subscription being discontinued within the subscription period - effectively what has happened with the need to have at least one "APPROVED" entry in the database in order to gain access to the map. "

IIRC that's not the case here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no functionality offered to subscribers has been withdrawn. New functionality has been developed, and an incentive offered to access it for free.

Dave


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## sallytrafic

DABurleigh said:


> "But I don't recall an instance of a facility included in ones subscription being discontinued within the subscription period - effectively what has happened with the need to have at least one "APPROVED" entry in the database in order to gain access to the map. "
> 
> IIRC that's not the case here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no functionality offered to subscribers has been withdrawn. New functionality has been developed, and an incentive offered to access it for free.
> 
> Dave


Do you think he will believe both of us Dave he seems unwilling to believe people one at a time :roll:

Frank


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## Guest

sallytrafic said:


> With the greatest respect that is not true you have the same access to the database as you always have had - try IT


I stand corrected. I had mis-read point one in Nuke's post Here as meaning that the map and database were now one and the same.

I hold my hands up to making a mistake in that.

Perhaps this is an example of a facte which both I and Peedee made comments on earlier - along the lines of "it is not easy to quickly identify levels of access."

Graham


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## Guest

sallytrafic said:


> Do you think he will believe both of us Dave he seems unwilling to believe people one at a time :roll:


Frank,

After posting my message at 20:19 I went to do something else. When I came back I received an e-mail re your message from 20:30. Whilst composing my reply (posted at 20:55) in which I admit making a mistake I had not seen Dave's post. It was only on posting that I saw that message.

I've now just received e-mails re your comment above (which I assume you are very proud of) and your PM to me.

You may wish to reflect on the thought that just because someone doesn't reply to your posts immediately it doesn't necessarily mean that they are ignoring you.

Graham


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## Grizzly

autostratus said:


> I've been so encouraged by recent information that I have finally made an entry.
> I too thought it was complicated but it isn't as bad as I thought.


Spot on entry Gillian - includes all the info I need to make a judgement that this is a good place to overnight en route. Thanks. You're clearly good at this - have you any more up your sleeve ?

G


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## sallytrafic

GJH said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think he will believe both of us Dave he seems unwilling to believe people one at a time :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Frank,
> 
> After posting my message at 20:19 I went to do something else. When I came back I received an e-mail re your message from 20:30. Whilst composing my reply (posted at 20:55) in which I admit making a mistake I had not seen Dave's post. It was only on posting that I saw that message.
> 
> I've now just received e-mails re your comment above (which I assume you are very proud of) and your PM to me.
> 
> You may wish to reflect on the thought that just because someone doesn't reply to your posts immediately it doesn't necessarily mean that they are ignoring you.
> 
> Graham
Click to expand...

No Graham I am refering to my post of 18.42.11 in which I spelled out that you had the same access as before.

Frank


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## spykal

Duadua said:


> Snip : It would be useful to see the roads in the Eastern part of Turkey on a map.
> 
> I know they exist as I toured round there upto the Russian, as it was then, Iranian and Iraqi borders about 30 years ago on a motorcycle and it is on my list of summer hols with the family with the MH., so any plotted camp site details would be great.


Hi

It sure would be great to have street level mapping in Turkey.... but as you can see if you look at the bottom left of the map ....the maps are a facility provided by and powered by Google, we can only use what are provided. So why not pop an email off to them and ask why the roads in Turkey are missing :roll:

Mike


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## Guest

sallytrafic said:


> No Graham I am refering to my post of 18.42.11 in which I spelled out that you had the same access as before.


If you look at my reply to that message and my subsequent posting you will realise that, at the time of that first reply, I was still under the mistaken impression that the map and database were more closely linked. It was only your later post which clarified the position.

I have admitted that I made a mistake. If that is less than satisfactory for you then it is unfortunate but not my problem.

Graham.


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