# Covid courier scam?



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Im potentially in a bit of a sticky spot here.

I ordered a laptop for a client last week worth £2500 and had it shipped directly to them. The courier (I wont name them just yet) claims its been delivered and has included a photo of the package on a desk. firstly they delivered it to the wrong office on the site. The instructions were clear and secondly of course due to Covid nobody signed for it or saw it being delivered. So it would seem either the courier has swiped it back after taking the photo or someone at the plant has. Sadly CCTV coverage only shows the couriers van leaving site, it does not cover the office where it was supposedly delivered.

Ill be taking this up with my supplier in the morning but would just like to gather as much info as possible as regards who is responsible. Any legal eagles know?

This new thing of not having to sign for stuff due to covid is very much open to abuse I think.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Did the courier name the person they gave it to? That would be an essential safeguard lin lieu of a signature.

A photo of the thing on some desk means nothing.

I'd assume the courier carries insurance. Until you or your client have the item in hand or till the courier provides proof of delivery the responsibility is theirs I reckon.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Im potentially in a bit of a sticky spot here.
> 
> I ordered a laptop for a client last week worth £2500 and had it shipped directly to them. The courier (I wont name them just yet) claims its been delivered and has included a photo of the package on a desk. firstly they delivered it to the wrong office on the site. The instructions were clear and secondly of course due to Covid nobody signed for it or saw it being delivered. So it would seem either the courier has swiped it back after taking the photo or someone at the plant has. Sadly CCTV coverage only shows the couriers van leaving site, it does not cover the office where it was supposedly delivered.
> 
> ...


Not good situation.

I can only say what happens here when a delivery is not signed for because of Covid; the PO or courier must leave the parcel in front of somebody, get their name and enter it instead of the signature on their machine. So it may be worth establishing if that system is in place in UK and if so demand the name of the recipient.

Did the sender insure it or do the courier company have insurance, but the sender would have to pursue that route as he was the courier's client.

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I should think verification of delivery is a matter for each company. I doubt threr is a national policy.

The procedure with most delivery companies here in Spain is to take details of the recipient. If you aren't known to them they may well want ID too.

It's just occurred to me that the sender can also dictate what proof of delivery is required. Here for example Amazon ask for proof in the form of the name of the recipient on anything of significant. The information about whether or not proof is required is prominently written on the package so the courier is informed. Things of lesser value are marked Bozon to indicate that they can be left in the letter box and need not be handed to an identifiable recipient.

If you haven't paid for the computer up front I'd say that was a bonus. But either way I'd take the view that it's very unfortunate has nothing to do with you or your client since it cannot be shown that it was delivered.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

AFAIK it is the vendor's responsibility until it is delivered TO THE CUSTOMER....

That is confirmed here;

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

Under the Consumers Tights Act, the vendor us responsible until the item is DELIVERED TO YOU OR YOUR NOMINATED NEIGHBOUR OR SAFE PLACE.

In your case your nominated neighbour is the personnit should have gone to and until they say "Yes, I have it" it remains the responsibility of the company selling it.

Your contract is with THEM, not the Courier Company. So photographing it on some random desk does not count even in the current times. They may say "Oh it was in the office, but until someone signs for it, or their details are recorded by writing or photograph so they can be traced. It remains up to them.

It is clear cut according to Which who administer much of these points, indeed HMG sends you to them via their link.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I have not paid for it up front. The courier in the tracking log has put a name down for a member of staff who received it but apparently he just shouted across the yard to this person for a name. There was nobody in the unit where he left the parcel to witness it being left. I just have a feeling its going to be a bit of a battle this one. Its not my favoured supplier but I do use them a lot. If it was my other wholesale supplier I would be less worried but this lot are a bit of a nightmare to deal with.

My suspicions that something fishy is up have been risen more because the Courier tracking states they tried to deliver it on Thursday but there was nobody there. Thats rubbish as I made sure someone was in the office for the delivery time and the quarry where they eventually supposedly wrongly delivered it on Friday is constantly occupied.

Its a farm office with a massive Quarry quarter of a mile beyond the main office. There are portacabin offices up in the quarry but there isnt always someone in them but there is always people about in the Quarry. I never ever get stuff delivered to the Quarry as I know it will be safer in the farm office. So in effect even if they have delivered it, they delivered it to the wrong place.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sadly this kinds thing has been going on since the Littlewoods catalogues days. We were obliged to get the printed name after a squiggle signature when leaving 'White Goods' at the delivery address or neighbours. Too many smaller items went missing.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I had three dehumidifiers sent by a mail order co because the first two did not arrive.

Eventually a local farmer friend of mine called on day to say to say there were two large boxes addressed to me sitting on the front porch of a vacant bungalow up a lane he had been on to get to one of his fields.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> I had three dehumidifiers sent by a mail order co because the first three did not arrive.
> 
> Eventually a local farmer friend of mine called on day to say to say there were two large boxes addressed to me sitting on the front porch of a vacant bungalow up a lane he had been on to get to one of his fields.


Well of course there is always the chance that it is actually there but only if someone who isnt there today has moved it but that seems extremely unlikely. Or its just possible the Courier decided to take it away as they felt it wasnt really safe leaving it in an empty office but then its showing delivered with a photo on the tracking system.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

As I said, let the vendor sort it out, it has not been delivered to where it ought to have been.

End of story, it's their problem.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> As I said, let the vendor sort it out, it has not been delivered to where it ought to have been.
> 
> End of story, it's their problem.


I hope you are right Dave but if the courier turns round and claims proof of delivery and the supplier sides with them I foresee it getting messy. If that happens at the same time I still have to find another £2500 laptop for my client and ship it out.

Will find out tomorrow I guess.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The deliverer would have to prove it was delivered to the named person, or company name, on the order. Until that is done withhold payment.

If paying via credit card and they have taken th payment raise a dispute over non-delivery, the same is PayPal.

If the courier says he has the details of who he gave it to, ask for them and check whether the name and signature is one that you recognise, if not they cannot be an authorised recipient. The onus is entirely on the company supplying the goods to prove that THEIR chosen courier has delivered it to the correct person, there is no alternative available.

You can, and should, look at the Small Claims Court procedures;

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

You are well within their limits and may have to attend a hearing, but the chances are high that the vendor would not as it is cheaper for them not to contest the issue.

The system does work and the threat of such action is often more than enough if they fail to admit that it has not been delivere in accordance with the order.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> The deliverer would have to prove it was delivered to the named person, or company name, on the order. Until that is done withhold payment.
> 
> If paying via credit card and they have taken th payment raise a dispute over non-delivery, the same is PayPal.
> 
> ...


I am on 30 day terms with the supplier Dave so I guess if it gets nasty I can just not pay but that wont be the end of it. They could end up taking me to court for none payment but hopefully it will get sorted tomorrow.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

They won't go to court unless they have proof of delivery. That would be unwinnable.

They might bluff that they would though.

I would be very surprised if the delivery company didn't carry insurance and more so if the supplier didn't do so too on an item of such value.

Express amazement and ask if they are datf enough to send something of that value uninsured, and do it by email so you have a record of it. I can't see a court finding that you or your client are at fault in any way.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The costs of the small claims Court are less than £100, returnable if/when you win. No legal representation is allowed, it us purely done on the submission, electronic or paper in advance, on the day us not acceptable.

If the opposition do not turn up, as is very likely, you would win fully by default.

For any company, the time taken for such a Claim and the costs associated with going from where they are to your nearest scc makes it a financial disaster for most companies.

The what used to be Disgance Selling Regulations and now the various Acts that cover such sales means that the balance is heavily against them. They have the onus of proof and to simply quote a Courier Co is insufficient to justify them saying it WAS delivered; they have to have an identifiable person at the re ipients address who has signed and who's identity can be traced. Only then will the Court accept delivery of A BOX but the contents are not provable even by that. There have been numerous examples where people ordering something and being sent a box, that box contains a brick or something similar.....

The Courier Co can prove the parcel was delivered, but cannot prove the contents, so if the recipients says it was not there it is hard to prove that it was.....l. Vendor's responsibility.......

My son in law ordered a £200 bicycle via FleaBay, a box arrived containing a screwdriver set and there it sat until FleaBay intervened, the Co. could prove a parcel was delivered and rejected the idea of it NOT containing the bike. In the end, he was advised to return it to the sender n it's original packing, traced and at that point FleaBay issued the refund.... There are many such scams around but most couriers are totally honest although may be careless they are also self-employed and overworked as regards timings for deliveries.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

The problem is that if they take Baz to the small claims court I'm pretty sure it will be their local one and so it might be hundreds of miles away from him. He has no case to bring against anyone, so if it happens it will be them against him. But they'd be stupid to try that.

I very much doubt it will arise. I used to recover bad debts that way all the time, but it was a while ago. It was always heard in our local courthouse, not where the other party lived, and only once was it contested by a chap who was very angry, made a fool of himself and lost.

I suspect that when I was using small claims you could send a representative in place of the MD or proprietor if necessary, after all who'd appear on behalf of Elevation IT PLC but a representative of the company. I really don't remember but in my case it was company name versus the individual debtor. I never had to name my representative or detail his relationship with me. I'd say I could have sent a solicitor. It isn't a court though.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

He would only need to use the scc if the company has been paid and won't now either deliver or return. 

The company has no claim against Baz as they have not delivered so they are in breach of the contract between him and them. So there is no reason why they could use a scc since they have not delivered, they have no claim at all.

Most of it is done on line in advance if it is needed, but if he has not paid he does not need to use a scc simply because the contract has not been completed - the goods were not delivered to his no,boated person - the one that Barry is working for.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Penquin said:


> He would only need to use the scc if the company has been paid and won't now either deliver or return.
> 
> The company has no claim against Baz as they have not delivered so they are in breach of the contract between him and them. So there is no reason why they could use a scc since they have not delivered, they have no claim at all.
> 
> Most of it is done on line in advance if it is needed, but if he has not paid he does not need to use a scc simply because the contract has not been completed - the goods were not delivered to his no,boated person - the one that Barry is working for.


I agree that they would not win in a small claims court, but there is nothing to prevent the supplier from completing the forms and getting a date and place for the claim to be heard. If someone incorrectly thinks they have a case it might have to go before the arbitrator to be considered and rejected on the grounds that there is no case.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I think its going to get messy.

Frustrating day today. Took an age to get to speak to my account manager and I only managed to get out of him about an hour ago that an investigation has started which can take 3-5 days. Meanwhile the client is chomping at the bit. Supplier suggests ordering a second laptop and sorting out the disputed one later. So I am about to do that and then the client suggests waiting until the investigation is over as they dont want to be billed for two laptops. I had no intention of billing them twice anyway but just agreed to that and said nothing.

Im wondering if my client should get the police involved but of course we have no idea who has it. The courier, a member of staff or an opportunist lurker.

I think if anything the courier is in the wrong for firstly delivering to the wrong place and secondly leaving it in an empty unlocked office. I asked about the insurance and apparently according to my account manger they are only covered for £50!! FFS! What a royal PIA.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Nothing is simple any more is it. Just when you think everything in the garden is coming up roses, 23rd. June 2016 happens and everything falls off the edge.

I managed to get the £180 refunded for a PC but the £55 postage and £16 for adaptors I can whistle. 

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If these people routinely send valuable equipment by courier/post and don't have annual insurance to cover losses and theft they are taking a very stupid risk. Presumably the figure that the bearing the risk themselves is cheaper than insuring. That's their decision.

You are not a party to this and neither is your client. You ordered it to be delivered to your client and till that happens and there is a record of a named person at your client's address having taken delivery of it your supplier has not made the supply.

It may get messy, but you are not part of whatever mess ensues and neither is your client.

I assume you have a family solicitor Baz. Run it past him/her by email and act on what they say. Best you stay out of it. You being a decent sort may get you sucked in to something you have no part it.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

I hope its sorted out soon Baz. I don't know if it would help but I quized A delivery driver on this a couple of weeks ago. The photo will have a very accurate GPS stamp on it. He reckoned it was more secure than any signing system, especially if as he did it included a pair of shoes (yours) or front door.

That GPS stamp should be available.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Insurance for expensive laptops in transit is really expensive. So I guess they just wing it. However that IMO makes it more likely they will try and get awkward over it. If their investigation concludes that the item was delivered then it very much is my problem I think as I ordered it and the contract is between me and the supplier. Yes there will be a GPS Stamp on the photo I guess and it will show an office in the Quarry but not the Farm office quarter of a mile away or so where it was supposed to be delivered. 

Apparently the courier did shout across the yard for a name which they put on the delivery thingy online but the person that gave the name was heading off somewhere else and not present in the office when it was supposedly left there and photographed. 

The only way i can stay out of it is just by not paying for the goods if they decide it was delivered properly and then I assume they will come after me for the money. Im then left with the dilemma of maybe being taken to court or insisting my client coughs up to me (I already invoiced him on Thursday last week when the laptop should have originally been delivered) but i dont want to do either, certainly not the latter really.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Talk to your solicitor.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

You said "it was not delivered to the farm office a quarter of a mile away but to the yard where he shouted across etc." 

In which case it has NOT been delivered in accordance with the contract and their GPS time stamp will confirm ther delivery to the wrong place, far from confirming they did deliver, it confirms that they did NOT deliver to the correct address but just somewhere else of the courier's choosing.

In this case, their technology (the courier company) will work against them. After that it is the suppliers problem as THEIR contract is with the courier company, yours is with them to complete the service. Meanwhile let your client know the invoice has been cancelled and a new one will be issued as soon as the equipment is confirmed as being delivered. That way you maintain goodwill - so important in business.

Sorry, should have put this in earlier.

Does the Farm Office, a quarter of a mile away, have a different postcode to the quarry ?

If it does, what address did you put on the order, including postcode, and what full address was put on the parcel by the company ? If the postcodes are different, that is more evidence of the Courier doing his own thing - perhaps because of time pressure for the number of deliveries ? That would be a significant error UNLESS the company put the quarry postcode and address rather than the Office. You SHOULD be able to check what address including postcode you put on AND what address THEY put on - that also might indicate either, the company's fault giving the wrong address, or the courier's fault for failing to deliver it to the correct address.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Talk to your solicitor.


Dont have one!

I guess there is no point until I know what the situation is. Maybe they will turn round and take responsibility and there is no drama. If not and it gets messy I might have to consider talking to one. Right now its all speculation. I just wanted to hear some opinions though as my gut on this one says its going to get awkward.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> You said "it was not delivered to the farm office a quarter of a mile away but to the yard where he shouted across etc."
> 
> In which case it has NOT been delivered in accordance with the contract and their GPS time stamp will confirm ther delivery to the wrong place, far from confirming they did deliver, it confirms that they did NOT deliver to the correct address but just somewhere else of the courier's choosing.
> 
> ...


I dont know but I have a feeling it might. I just googled the postcode I put on the order and in Google maps its the main road about 100 yards from the Farm office. The Quarry is even further away. I have emailed the office manager to check. Trouble is the company name is the same and its on the PO. Still it clearly states "Farm Office" and the two contact names and a number. However Im not sure all that went on the label that the courier had. No way of knowing. It was on my PO though. I guess I would need to see sight of the label that actually went on the box. On the couriers tracking it clearly states Farm office and the postcode I put on though. Actually it says Farm Of.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Just had a reply. Same postcode. Thats not unusual out in the sticks here.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Labelling is up to the sender. You gave the right and full information. If they neglected to put that on the label that's their responsibility.

You said farm office the courier should have verified he was at the farm office and apparently didn't. If he did ask and was told it was the quarry office then he knowingly left it in the wrong olace.

Post code does not matter. Our local post code at home covers several miles of road. It's not good enough just to deliver within a postcode area.

Baz unless you want to end up paying for some or all of this mistake you need to refute all responsibility on behalf of your client and yourself. You now have a raft of good valid points to put to the sender. Email them a polite missive outlining them and asking what they propose to do to satisfy the order you placed with them.

Sorry Baz, but you seem to be being too nice and sympathetic for your own good.

You can imagine what I'd have told any supplier of mine in the circs you've outlined.


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## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

barryd said:


> Dont have one!
> 
> I guess there is no point until I know what the situation is. Maybe they will turn round and take responsibility and there is no drama. If not and it gets messy I might have to consider talking to one. Right now its all speculation. I just wanted to hear some opinions though as my gut on this one says its going to get awkward.


CAB (the Citizen's Advice Bureaux) is still strong in many parts of the country. I have a close friend who volunteers for our local county one. They are not just a shoulder to cry on but are a genuine free advice service. Volunteers receive regular training and she tells me that it is quite common for her to take a problem to a "specialist" and act as a go between with the client. It's all done on the telephone now 'cos of Covid.

Might be worth trying your local one, they might be able to give you advice about a local solicitor and even put you in touch with a suitable one.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

erneboy said:


> Labelling is up to the sender. You gave the right and full information. If they neglected to put that on the label that's their responsibility.
> 
> You said farm office the courier should have verified he was at the farm office and apparently didn't. If he did ask and was told it was the quarry office then he knowingly left it in the wrong olace.
> 
> ...


I agree with Alan.

I suggest you sit down and draw a diagram of the parties involved and insert between them where ther are contractual obligations and under what contract. It may help you to see where the legal responsibilities lie and that is what should direct your actions.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

The only person I have so far been able to speak to is my account manger. He agrees with me that Im not at fault but he is just a young chap flogging computers and way down the chain.

I have made it absolutely clear though that there is no way whatsover that I will be held responsible and I wont be paying for the goods.

Until I get something from higher up the command chain I think all I can do is sit and wait to see what they come back with after the investigation. Then I can put forward the points we have discussed here (assuming they dont take responsibility). Trust me. I may come across as a "Good chap" and diplomacy is one of my key attributes in business but the gloves will come off if they do try and stick it to me.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm sure you are fed up listening to me on this Baz.

But now is the time to make your whole case plain to them. If you wait till they've made their decision on how they will play it you may be getting a message from a senior person who may have made the decision based only on what his own people have told him. You can be fairly sure that if there was an error at their end, with say providing the correct address and naming the recipient/s, it will not have been mentioned or at least little will have been made of it.

Once a decision has been made they are likely simply to defend it rather than to reconsider it. People don't like to have to overturn decisions they've made and bosses will often rely on what their staff tell them and then simply become defensive if challenged. I'd say you are in danger of lining the thing up to turn out messy.

I recommend that you present all your information now and ensure that the decision maker gets to see it. What have you to lose by doing that?

OK. Sorry. Not another word from me.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree with Alan


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> I'm sure you are fed up listening to me on this Baz.
> 
> But now is the time to make your whole case plain to them. If you wait till they've made their decision on how they will play it you may be getting a message from a senior person who may have made the decision based only on what his own people have told him. You can be fairly sure that if there was an error at their end, with say providing the correct address and naming the recipient/s, it will not have been mentioned or at least little will have been made of it.
> 
> ...


That makes sense Alan. I started to think that after I posted my last post. I will do just that.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> That makes sense Alan. I started to think that after I posted my last post. I will do just that.


Barry

Keep it simple. State that you ordered xxxxx, it was to be delivered to [Insert details of your customer and the delivery instructions].

State that it has not been delivered to [your customer] as per the delivery instructions therefore the contract has not yet been completed, and that you require xxxx to be delivered as per the contract.

I think it is not necessary, at this stage, to go into what you know about delivery by the courier, as that is a matter for your suppler to take up with the courier company. If your supplier comes back with his evidence that it was delivered, then that is the time to contest that information based on what you have been told.

You can if you want top and tail the letter, or in a separate covering letter, with apologies for having to put the legal position in writng but you are sure your supplier will understand, or something similar. You can add in there somewhere that they will no doubt wish to find out what happened to any purported delivery.

I hope this helps.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Too late Geoff. After Alans post I went and sent a long detailed account of the entire tale of woe so we can blame him if it doesnt work. 

I do want to make sure the investigator gets all the details as I have a feeling the account manager may not have passed on the detailed delivery I instructions in full. I had a email from someone at customer services now saying it might take seven days so I might forward my email and the original po to him.

I'm out at the moment but might post an edited version of what I wrote later. I do go on a bit to be fair.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

This is what I wrote. So far I have only sent it to my account manger but I think I should forward it to the customer services guy dealing with it.

Goes on a bit. Ive taken out names etc.

*Hi XXXXXX

While we are waiting for this investigation to take place I would appreciate if you would pass on this email to whoever is looking into it. These are the facts as I see them.

Firstly there were specific instructions on the PO which I have attached. These clearly showed that the address to be delivered to was the Farm Office. Not the separate Quarry plant which is quarter of mile or so beyond the farm and Farm office. Also there were specific contact names provided as recipients. On both occasions when delivery was attempted both XXXX XXXX and XXXX XXXX were onsite in the Farm office awaiting delivery. A Contact number was also provided should the courier have needed to call them.

Secondly as well as going to the wrong place the courier then left "a parcel" in and unattended and unlocked portacabin office in the actual quarry (not the Farm office). Nobody witnessed it being placed there and of course nobody signed for it. It is believed the courier got a name from someone in the yard but not in the office where he dropped the parcel. From the photo there is just a parcel in black wrapping, no label visible and as there is nobody there in the photo a photo of a parcel on a desk is not proof of delivery. How do we know the Courier did not take the photo and then just pick it up and put it back in the van? I don't want to point the finger at the courier but it does present a possibility.

Thirdly according to the Couriers tracking where the address does indicate "Farm Office" the driver XXXX claims attempted delivery was made on Thursday 10 September at 12:21 but was unable to. This makes no sense as both XXXX and XXXX were (as per my instructions) in the office awaiting delivery. Again no call to the client from the courier. See screenshot below

I do not have access to the label that you provided to DPD but from my end I provided clear and concise instructions.

I am not sure how (company name) and your courier will resolve this but it has to be resolved between those two parties. Clearly from my evidence provided today I can take no responsibility for this parcel not being delivered to my client and therefore my company will bear no costs in the recovery of this item or compensation for its loss, nor of course will my client.

If you wish to involve the Police I can put you in touch with my client who I believe will have no problem with them contacting him.

I look forward to hearing of a successful outcome to this incident as soon as possible as we still need the item. In the meantime if I can help in any other way then please don't hesitate to contact me. I value you XXXX as a great account manager so I hope this can be resolved quickly to everyone's satisfaction. *


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Looks good to me, only one slight typo; para 3 line 2 you have put "and" instead of "an" but that is the only error as fast as I can criticise.....

I wish that I wrote letters or mails with only one typo.... see my signature below........

It will be informative if they acknowledge receipt of that mail, as once they acknowledge it they will have to consider the contents. If not acknowledged they could easily say "Went to wrong person, not passed on".

There are numerous tricks that can be applied.

You have clearly stated the problem, why you cannot accept responsibility and where they need to look, even to the extent of involving the Police since the item is worth £2.5k. That MIGHT putbtge fear if Dog in gthem (sorry another typo 🙄 ).

I hope that you get a quick, positive response,

Dave


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Looks good to me Baz.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Barry

You are where you are now.

From here just keep it in your head that your contract is with the supplier. The supplier is the *Principal* who has to supply on your orders. He could have delivered the item himself.

He chose to use a Courier. The Courier is the supplier's *Agent. *A Principal is responsible for the actions of his Agent.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Cheers. I rattle stuff like that off really fast and I can't be arsed to proof read often but I did with that so one typos not to bad. 

Trouble is the email from the customer service bloke is their own and when I tried to forward this with the attachments it crashed their system so not sure it's gone. I'll make sure they have it though. My acc manager certainly has and I asked him to pass it on.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Just in case anyone was interested in an update on all of this I can now provide one.

What a feckin carry on! Ill try and keep it as brief as possible but its literally gone on for weeks and weeks and has been what can only be described as proper battle of wits. 

Some say I should have just done nothing and let them chase me for the money but I foresaw big problems down the line so attacked it head on. It transpired that not only did they not put the full details on the delivery instructions but also the wrong phone number. They put on a random number for one of my other clients! I only found out as the supplier was trying to contact me on that number and my other client got in touch to let me know.

Then there was an investigation by the courier and I think this is where they really fcuked up big style. The Courier (driver) claimed they returned to the business on the 1st of October and spoke to the "Site manager" who told him that they did receive it and that the "site manager" informed him that he had dropped it off at the proper office. Of course quick as a flash I asked for the name of the person he supposedly spoke to. Ah! didnt get a name. How very odd I thought. Trying to clear your name but dont get the name of the person who could have cleared it for you. So I challenged them to send the driver back out and point out to me in person who he spoke to. This put them on the spot somewhat and after many more calls and emails they said they had concluded their investigation and that was it.

Of course I didnt accept that and asked for the details of their CEO so I could formally write to him and present all the evidence to him. They agreed to open another investigation. Then earlier this week I get a call saying the courier now claims they never went back to site on 1 October :lol: yes of course because they have been exposed as telling porkies. Either they lied and didnt go back to site while they claimed they did or they are lying now as they did go back to site but did not get a name or probably even spoke to someone. 

Throughout all of this its gradually gone up the chain of command and finally this week my latest point of contact came back to me yesterday to say that as the investigation cannot prove that they returned on the 1st October they have agreed to send out another laptop or provide a credit note. However they added the caveat that the investigation is still underway and if it turns out they can prove the courier returned and prove delivery they may pursue the goods or further payment. Well good luck with that one.

So hopefully with a bit of luck I am out of the woods and David has beaten Goliath. Lets hope the fecking thing turns up tomorrow!


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

I think it's time for me to chase up that bottle of gin you allegedly bought me that I never received.

You said you had drunk it, but you should have replaced it with another.

Is there a statute of limitations on stolen booze?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

tugboat said:


> I think it's time for me to chase up that bottle of gin you allegedly bought me that I never received.
> 
> You said you had drunk it, but you should have replaced it with another.
> 
> Is there a statute of limitations on stolen booze?


If there is I expect it can be waived on this occasion.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

tugboat said:


> I think it's time for me to chase up that bottle of gin you allegedly bought me that I never received.
> 
> You said you had drunk it, but you should have replaced it with another.
> 
> Is there a statute of limitations on stolen booze?


I'm afraid to say the only limitation is the volume of the replacement bottle he could have consumed in what I suspect was a very short time.:surprise:

Reckon it's time to move on Geoff, as his response will be to (Gin)sling your hook.

Terry


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Gin Gin gin, thats all he thinks about. I did buy him another bottle, to be fair after I had emptied his drinks cabinet but its the thought that counts.

Still waiting on a credit note. The feckers sent out a new laptop which is coming today but went and issued a new invoice. That would seem to be the logical procedure as the new one is even more expensive as the other one was out of stock but I will feel less nervous when I see a credit note for the one that went missing. Still, I have it in writing now that this was their intention.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

barryd said:


> Gin Gin gin, thats all he thinks about. I did buy him another bottle, to be fair after I had emptied his drinks cabinet but its the thought that counts.
> 
> Still waiting on a credit note. The feckers sent out a new laptop which is coming today but went and issued a new invoice. That would seem to be the logical procedure as the new one is even more expensive as the other one was out of stock but I will feel less nervous when I see a credit note for the one that went missing. Still, I have it in writing now that this was their intention.


But if they credit the lower priced laptop and leave the more expensive one standing you are worse off.

They should be bearing the loss due to the delay which resulted in the 'out of stock' situation and a higher price.

Or am I missing something?

Geoff


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If they sent the replacement, more expensive one, without telling you it was more expensive they must be doing it as a gesture. 

They could not assume that you'd be happy to pay more for a different computer, one you did not order, leaving you either to bear the loss or to try to pass it onto your client by confronting him with a more expensive product which he didn't ask you for.

It's a bit cheeky just sending the next model up as a gesture without asking, if that's what they did. Your client may have some objection to that model. That could be as basic as it not being what he ordered.

Did they ask if a substitute at a higher price would be acceptable? 

Perhaps they have issued the invoice for the new one for internal invoicing purposes with the intention of voiding it later. Maybe all they expect to be paid is the amount of the invoice for the original missing computer. Providing they've asked you about the substitute beforehand that would be a fair solution.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If they sent the replacement, more expensive one, without telling you it was more expensive they must be doing it as a gesture. 

They could not assume that you'd be happy to pay more for a different computer, one you did not order, leaving you either to bear the loss or to try to pass it onto your client by confronting him with a more expensive product which he didn't ask you for.

It's a bit cheeky just sending the next model up as a gesture without asking, if that's what they did. Your client may have some objection to that model. That could be as basic as it not being what he ordered.

Did they ask if a substitute at a higher price would be acceptable? 

Perhaps they have issued the invoice for the new one for internal invoicing purposes with the intention of voiding it later. Maybe all they expect to be paid is the amount of the invoice for the original missing computer. Providing they've asked you about the substitute beforehand that would be a fair solution.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

No, what happened was is the original model is just no longer available so they could not replace it. The next one up is the top of the range and is £300 more so my client just agreed to go for that one and pay the difference. so in theory the supplier should just credit note me for the first one that went missing, ill credit note my client and just reinvoice him for the new model which has just this minute arrived here at Rock God towers. 

I shall personally deliver it later today!

The problems may arise if the ****wit supplier does not provide me with a credit note for the missing one but I have it on record that they will now so thats down to them. Ill pay for the new one but not the missing one.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well thats it delivered! in person by me. A £2800 Apple laptop for a 14 year old girl. She looked delighted. Now if I could only get my client to spend that on some actual new computers for the business.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Good news ratbag.


I hope you got it signed for by the right person (checked ID?)


£2,800 for a 14 year-old? She must have seen him in bed with the au pair:laugh:


Now turn it over to the police to find out who had the laptop away.


Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Good news ratbag.
> 
> I hope you got it signed for by the right person (checked ID?)
> 
> ...


As said, I physically took it to their house and handed it over to the business owners wife and the delighted daughter so no need for anyone to sign for it. I left her to it ripping the cover off before they had time to ask me to set it up. 

Yeah its an expensive pressy alright. Apple stuff is good for sure but a kids laptop for school? It will be knackered within a couple of years or end up with cider or pizza all over it. The way I go through laptops I would never spend that much on one. Its probably worth more than my ****ty car.

If the courier company and the supplier want to get the police involved thats up to them. I suggested that from the off.


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