# Pet insurance



## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Someone posted a while back about Insurance companies now charging 10% of the vet fees in addition to any excess.
Ours came through today, we are with Esure/Zenith insurance.
Not only has the premium gone up from £74.57 to £98.19, they too want 10% of the vets fees plus £75 excess. Did a quick comparemarket search and it seems this is now common practice, some even wanting 15% fees plus excess.

I wonder how long before this spreads to car/house/contents etc insurance.  

I have told my dog I can no longer afford to insure her so stand still while I take a picture for e'bay.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Cut out the middle man.
Open a bank account with £150 for your dog and pay in your normal premium amount. 
If your dog needs treatment then, at least, you will have some of the fees available.
If the dog's condition requires silly money then you will have to make a difficult decision. Which is inevitable anyway.
If your dog lives a long and healthy life then you will get some of your money back.


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## Garcia (Mar 5, 2010)

INSURANCE....................legalised theft!!!!!

Worst case I came across with a pet was a person who had a 10 year no claim history with the same insurance Co. Dog took ill. Needed ops and long term care. Insurance Co paid up for the initial op but refused renewal of the policy !!!!

Agree with Spacerunner.......self insurance is the way to go, but be wary of 3rd party liability.
Garcia


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Garcia said:


> Agree with Spacerunner.......self insurance is the way to go, but be wary of 3rd party liability.
> Garcia


That's probably the most important part of having insurance. Even the best behaved dog/cat etc could cause an accident if spooked etc.
I will keep the insurance going.


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## The-Cookies (Nov 28, 2010)

lucky you our insurance is now £210 per year with petplan. every year as she gets older it goes up and like yours we have to pay the excess (now £100 per different illness per year) plus 20% of the cost of treatment. oh and its £20 a time just to talk to the vet before the treatment starts.

agreed its robbery but shes 12 now so to late to do the savings method instead

John


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

After seeing pet insurance premiums increase substantially I made the decision about 3 years ago to cancel it.The premiums had gone up to around £60 per month for both dogs 8O 

I am certain the premiums would have continued to go up as the dogs got older.

I know there is some risk involved if there any large bills involved but so far so good.I don't like tempting fate but both hounds are healthy and so far I am well in the black with pet insurance.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

Same here, only insured them for one year after birth, then let it lapse. With 6 dogs it is a bit of a risk but so far it has worked out well. The Whippets have had the odd nasty injury chasing Deer and Rabbits but by the time you calculate the excess and the cost of treatment, we are still well ahead of the game.

Of course the secret is to find a good Vet who is not a ripoff artist. That is a Vet whose first words are NOT "is your pet insured?", followed by £ symbols where the eyeballs should be. If anyone wants an excellent Vet and are within travelling distance of Chester-Le-Street, I can oblige.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

I should qualify my first post to say that we joined a 'puppy and kitten club' for the dog's first year for £9.99 p.m.

This gives us free (?) flea and tic treatment. Worming treatment and 3 vetinarian examinations for the year. 
We were also able to obtain a discounted Petplan insurance for the year. £10 p.m.
IMO the dog's first year will be when accidents and illnesses are most likely (apart from old age problems) so I thought it important to have a comfort barrier for the new pup.

As soon as Petplan start to jack up their premiums I shall be off in a cloud of dust and provide my own back-up.
The PDSA will always help a OAP with a sick animal and we have always supported them.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

Vets ask if insured not because of £ signs. They try and tailor treatment and l don't see the problem they are scorned if they tell you all the options and ditto if not. And people with ins ask for the top price as they pay their premiums for it even though often things can be done different.

Drugs it is more complicated to bring an animal drug to market than a human one and under cascade human drugs are last resorts or if no similar animal ones.
Humans can take from all directions yes there is now nice but even so it isnt the same constraints. The following link explains cascade and also in other areas all drugs for uses in animals it is the veterinary bible.
NOAH cascade

Qualified vet nurses are not paid well wages including nights and weekends are between 15 and at the BIG referrals about 22k/year. And a lot of the work is done by unqualified staff inc. general anaesthetics and "nurse clinics" Qualified vets dont get much either around 25k which for a professional is nothing.

I hate the pet clubs they are to my mind not needed (polite term). If my animal doesnt have fleas l am dammed if l am going to put chemicals on prophylacticly l advise worm every 3months and flea treat if you find a flea save a fortune, always keep up to date on vaccinations the spot ons are all very well but dont cover tape worms so still need to buy a tablet. Just get drontal or milbemax wormers (For puppy and kittens or fussy tablet takers best is MB is tiny tablet)

Illness can hit any age but the big ones will generally be an expensive ongoing problem. l disagree on the illness only in pup or old dog and yes accidents can be blimming expensive at any age...esp. if they eat what they shouldn't or cut themselves, get bitten/attacked and many other reasons. 
Last stats out showed via petplan (about 6years ago and would assume worse as more cats now) a cat is hit by a car every 2 mins in the UK which pretty much means that you have a pelvis repair as a start point.

Petplan insurance only one but get for life. And also before blaming vets for costs. Up to last year l did ooh emergencies for last 11 years and it isnt unusual for a person to demand wormers, flea treatments a lump thats been there a year etc etc checked at midnight or 3am just because the dog is insured. Where possible they are directed to day slots but a lot of times it doesn't work.

No pdsa wont always and believe me l know from first hand we deal with them all the time and the hysterical call backs from people who they refuse to cover ditto to blue cross rspca and other charities.. the small charities do try but are very constrained.

Those money grabbing vets who only see £ signs have done hundreds and in some cases thousands of £ worth of work for virtually nothing.. funny though those cases are never reported. I will say it is rare you will see that in the corporates although some vets there do the best they can but to corporates money is god..it is the independent places this happens. 
I also agree about some vets seeing £££££ again majority but not always corporates.

On the flip side for vet staff we also in most vets we work for pay total less about 10 or 15% so it isnt only public. At least one company makes the staff pay full consult fees even if vet checks in their lunch time. 
But some vets (independents usually) charge cost plus vat. 
Other vets who work for the corporations do the best they can for the non vet staff to see they dont get stuffed.

Finally hate me for saying it.. but if you didn't buy pedigrees you would have a fraction of the problems you do get with animals. Someone has to treat all the problems caused by bad breeding which has caused to much pain to animals. And sod kc they are just a bunch of breeders 
Read the following:
Inherited Diseases in Dogs

Sorry rant but l get upset at being tarred when l see loads of hard working veterinary staff getting tarred with money grabbing brush.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I agree with every word Bullowayo Lass says.

I have worked in vet's for many years so know at first hand how much they earn and I would also add that it is against their professional code of conduct to give any but the best advice for the pet in front of them.

My dogs have been insured since one injury cost nearly £2,000 to diagnose, let alone the further £2,000 odd to treat over the years. I insured her aged nine (injured leg not covered) and recently had a nearly £6,000 referral vet fee for her adrenal mass that had spread to her kidney and bowel. 

My other dog has Addisons disease (yes she is a pedigree - the first and last I shall buy). Any treatment or tests she needs she gets without any gut churning on my part.

Just to add that some insurance companies are deducting 20% co-insurance now! It does however keep the costs down for those lucky people who have healthy dogs. Mine is sill 10% and even finding that for the £6 K bill above was difficult.

Do not blame your vet for high bills - blame the drug companies and the surgical equipment suppliers! The vet I used to work for, nearly went bankrupt and had no option but to sell out to a large company (CVS - quoted on the stock exchange). He and his partners lived in very modest houses and drove modest cars. He went on camping holidays.


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## Jamsieboy (Jan 14, 2011)

When did the 10% in addition to the excess start?
I have two dogs, both insurered, and have had to pay excess for each new condition but have never been asked to pay 10% of the vet fee.
One insured by PetPlan and one DirectLine


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## aldhp21 (Aug 4, 2008)

bulawayolass said:


> Finally hate me for saying it.. but if you didn't buy pedigrees you would have a fraction of the problems you do get with animals. Someone has to treat all the problems caused by bad breeding which has caused to much pain to animals. And sod kc they are just a bunch of breeders


Cannot hate you for saying that as it's right. Well said.


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## Agilityman (Aug 17, 2009)

Bulawayolass paints with an enormous brush, me thinks.

He knows fully well that not all predigree dogs have inbred problems and that mongrels get a fair number of problems.

Can he also let me know why a Welsh rural vet can charge 30% of that charged by a Town vet? if drugs present the majority of the cost?


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## motormouth (Jul 3, 2010)

Jamsieboy said:


> When did the 10% in addition to the excess start?
> I have two dogs, both insurered, and have had to pay excess for each new condition but have never been asked to pay 10% of the vet fee.
> One insured by PetPlan and one DirectLine


I think it's relatively new, although not all companies are introducing it yet. E'sure/Zenith Insurance have and when I went on a comparison site, a lot of others have also introduced this extra charge. I did try Petplan who were double the price of E'sure for very similar cover, but they didn't charge the extra %, yet anyway.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

motormouth said:


> Jamsieboy said:
> 
> 
> > When did the 10% in addition to the excess start?
> ...


That's how why their premiums are higher


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Agilityman said:


> Bulawayolass paints with an enormous brush, me thinks.
> 
> He knows fully well that not all predigree dogs have inbred problems and that mongrels get a fair number of problems.
> 
> Can he also let me know why a Welsh rural vet can charge 30% of that charged by a Town vet? if drugs present the majority of the cost?


Though by no means representative my lurcher lived 13 healthy years until cancer caught her in her 14th year. My Whippet has an immune disease (Addisons) which she was diagnosed with age 21 months.

Rural vets may have lower staff costs and rent/rates would be very much lower I would have thought? Solicitors/accountants etc in London would charge more than those in rural areas too I would think?


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Having worked with dogs for a long time I have seen many vets from the local country ones right up to the top specialists (as I never had to pay the bills).
My observations are that most vets are very conscientious and only care for the welfare of the animals.
The big practices often do charge a lot more than the small country vets but this is often because they have expensive premises and all the latest equipment to pay for.
A lot of the vets who own their own practices around us are very wealthy people but this is because they always have been as they come from wealthy families and these are the people who can afford to finance the years of training it takes to become a vet. 
Several of the ones I know actually make more money from the property they own than from the vetinary practice.

James


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

So patp, are you saying your Lurcher was healthier than your Whippet because one is crossbred and the other is not?

I believe that it is daft to say crossbreeds are always healthier. We have had a number of mongrels and pedigree dogs throughout our lives. None of them have had any chronic disease but all of them needed a vet for bits and pieces. The mongrels just as much as the pedigree ones.

You cannot generalise.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

747 said:


> So patp, are you saying your Lurcher was healthier than your Whippet because one is crossbred and the other is not?
> 
> I believe that it is daft to say crossbreeds are always healthier. We have had a number of mongrels and pedigree dogs throughout our lives. None of them have had any chronic disease but all of them needed a vet for bits and pieces. The mongrels just as much as the pedigree ones.
> 
> You cannot generalise.


I did say "by no means representative" :?

Insurance companies publish data periodically which support the thesis that pedigree dogs generate more claims. Giant breeds being the ones in the highest groups of claimers.

A neutered crossbreed is considered to be lowest risk :wink:


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

The Insurance Company statistics do not give a truly representative picture in my view. Of the large breeds, Great Danes are lucky to live more than 9 years. Bernese often less than that plus they commonly suffer with Hip Dysplasia. These breeds are not popular and the low numbers of them reflect this.

Add to the fact that any large dog (crossbred or pedigree) is more likely to suffer with a potentially fatal twisted gut.

I have no figures to back this up but I would bet that the Pet Insurance companies will not differentiate the Premium with dogs whether pedigree or not. They may well put excesses on certain types like large dogs but generally will not. After all, they are in it to make money. Their risks are assessed by specialists. That might be OK with motor cars but I cannot see it being an exact science with dogs. Therefore they will err on the side of caution.


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## bulawayolass (Jul 27, 2010)

To agility maybe have trouble reading or possibly just want to start an argument.. who knows who cares l shall just clarify 
I am a SHE not a he hence Bulawayo LASS.
I dont know but l also know that everything rural costs more a lot of the time because of distance involved a smaller group of clients available to charge more to make up for that also l would say with vets cost of equipment and yes drugs. A simple consultation table is around £400 upwards. Sometimes you can get them second hand but not often. And that is just one item. Try fitting out a veterinary practice or instead of trying to pick an argument in several ways, go and ask the local vet if they can explain costings to you.

JP l locum and have worked for small, large and majors and yes they have bigger premises ..... lets just let that statement stand as my opinion on the big guys. I will take their money but l wont like or trust anything about the office boys. Different from the on the ground staff who have no real say in the matter.

I can make the statement on mongrels l am not talking a pedigree x pedigree l am talking the true mongrel you look at and go 
"welllll may be see ermm ......" and play spot the breed. Sadly there is very few of these about usually it is a couple of pedigrees or close enough to spot. So pretty good chance you are taking bad genetics through and not outbreeding.

Yes pet insurance do differentiate because they see all the statistics. And smaller breeds sales or larger make no difference to a breed pool with a problem. A pedigree is a mongrel that breeds true the problem those are all very restricted gene pools they start from.
For instance l was told that the caviller (CKCS) almost died out around 1900 there was l understand 3 bitches and 2 dogs left. The guy who decided to save the breed used the one dog for stud (dont know why not both) there was one problem.. the male used had a heart defect and that has carried on being propagated as the problem today. Yes there are 1000s of CKCS around but there was only a small base. 
(hope the above 2 paragraphs makes sense l changed it about 7 times to try and improve how it read)

GDV or bloat is a twisted stomach (not gut although that occasionally happens 99.9% of the time if it happens it is as a secondary) or if really lucky the stomach sphincter has clamped off and it hasnt twisted..yet.
At the practice where l did my OOH for around 11 years it has the highest case load in the country it isnt unusual to have 1 or 2 in a 4 night shift worst night was 2 GDV in one night with a major stitch up post dog attack in the middle. I have been trying to think of how many have been mongrels or 1 x cross and in all honesty l would say maybe 3 or 4 out of the probably several hundred+ l have seen.

I stand by what l said about breeds and problems. I am not talking about cuts, rta and the such and yes any mongrel can get a problem, my old santa was a case in point mind you a few of those bless her were accidents. Then with Poca when she got to about 16 she got pancreatitis and at about 17 Wibble had a thrombus. The last 2 only had those 2 problems health wise. 
My comment was look at the ratio of the problem (hence the link l put up) and as l have been in vet practice in the uk since about 1997 when l started my vn training and worked at practices all over the country l think l can speak with a pretty good idea of what l have seen. 
On the sad but ironically positive side if people keep buying the breeds they do and others keep breeding the way they do it will keep vets and staff in work.

Right off to bed.. goodnight

*Caro*


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