# What a place to put a leisure battery !!!!



## brimo (May 10, 2005)

We have had our 1999 Hymer B584 for just over 2 weeks now and love it. But, we have had two 3 day trips in it and, with the weather being cool, have suffered with the leisure battery running low after the 1st night.

We have not been running any power-hungry kit apart from one or two lights and 20 mins on a 14" 12 volt TV and..... the blown-air heating on the hymer.

When I decided to get the battery checked out I found it was under the passenger captains chair with no way of access except by taking the chair off. Its easy to do as there are only 4 screws but it weighs a far whack and when removed where are you supposed to put it  

I have the chance of two 110 ah leisure batteries in a few weeks time and would like to put them under the bench seat in my Hymer but... what do i do with the exisiting battery and wires. It all looks so professionally done under that seat that I fear moving battery and wires. I asked Hymer Uk and the price for adding an additional battery was £380+ and I don't think that counted the cost of the other battery.

Would it be an easy task to remove the battery from under the passenger seat and blank off the wires. Then place 2 new leisures under the benchseats and wire them up to the system?

Its sounds daunting but with the Hymer in the winter, wildcamping and using the blow air heating something needs to be done, as the last two weekends have been a pain constantly watching what light you're switching on and such like. It takes the fun out of it !!  

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. I have done a search on the forum but this answer isn't fully covered.


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## fjmike (May 10, 2005)

I'm no expert brimo but it does sound to me as if you have one of two possible problems 1 your battery is past its best and won't hold a full charge or 2 something amiss with your wiring. I base this on the fact that we have had several trips away recently using lights ,pc/tv ,blow air heating and showers in the morning and only once did we have any problem with the battery (85amp hour) and that was because a tap had been left slightly on running the pump all night. The motorhome is a 2004 Dethleff (owned by Hymer)


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## 88810 (May 9, 2005)

I would imagine your battery is past its best. It would probably only cost £30 ish for a new battery (85amp). We had to change ours as it was dead (5 years old) when we got it dealer said about 2 years is usual. New one lasts up to 3 days with same usage as you appear to do. 
Jana


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## 93514 (May 1, 2005)

brimo

no point speculating about the old battery as only you know whether it is a dud or not after you got it tested. If you are going down the road of replacement batteries/wiring i would definitely recommend a trip to an auto electrician. There are numerous independent operators who will only too gladly give a more competitive quote for this job.

I only say this as you sound hesitant about the task before you start and does not in any way suggest that you are not competent. Vehicle wiring is best left to an expert and there are a great many dangers involved if mistakes are made. Best to spend a little extra if it involves a major investment such as your motorhome, not to mention your safety.

Kev


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## brimo (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for your speedy replies. Yes, I did take off the seat and took the battery out for testing. Two local tyre and battery shops couldn't do it that day so I came back home with it and put it on charge overnight. 

I took it to the next town and an auto electrician came out with his gizmo, one of these that has two spikes, one for each battery pole. He spiked it and the meter needle didn't move. He said the battery didn't have enough power in it to light a 12 volt light bulb. I told him that I had just had it on charge overnight. he said i must have discharged it.

Anyways, I brought the battery home and refitted it to the Hymer and then did the battery test on the vehicle panel. it read 13+ volts and ran the heating on the van for the next day or so. 

I agree, it looks like the battery is suspect and what we may do is replace this leisure battery with one of the new ones when they arrive and just put the other under the bench seat for running extras such as the TV. If George Telford can run a 17" LCD and DVD with a spare battery then so can we, as long as he tells us how to wire it up. We're sure he doesn't use bull-dog clips !! :twisted:


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brimo 

First of the auto electrician was wearing cowboy boots and a Stetson I pressume? (or he should have been) Quick call to trading standards needed there. The twin Pronged device is a discharge tester to see if there is enough power to start a vehicle and see whether the battery only has "surface" charge. You taking the battery back and running heater fan proves he was lying about the discharge test. 


Fitting batter in bench seat. 

1. How would you charge the underbench battery (bench charger at home ?) 

2. What exactly do you want to run from the (second~) leisure battery? will it all be 12v Gear? I used an Invertor wired directly to the battery to run mains LCD and DVD player. 

George


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## brimo (May 10, 2005)

Hi George

Yes, I could so eassily have thrown that batery away. It may not be top notch but it certainly wasn't dead as a do-do. 

What we would like to do is fit two 110 ah leisure batteries under the bench seat and charge them via the motorhome charger i.e. via the engine. The van also has a 120 watt solar panel fitted. I'd like to use the exisiting wiring but this may be difficult as the wiring appears to run under the linoleum on the floor. Another alternative may be to replace the underseat knackered leisure battery with a new one and fit the second behind the passenger seat and join them up by drilling two holes in the back of the passenger seat.

What do we want to run? Well mainly 12 volt stuff but would consider running 240 volt, like microwave from an inverter. We just want to be able to wild camp in the winter for 3 or 4 days without having to have a 50 mile drive !!

Thanks again


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## dodger148 (May 9, 2005)

Youll have to follow me Brian down the M56, to Shotton, I have had a duffer too and have decided on an Elecsol
Roger


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## brimo (May 10, 2005)

What's at Shotton Dodger? BTW, I have 2 leisure batteries coming in a week or so at a price I couldn't refuse !!


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Brian

Close togethor in original spot would be the easiest, I am Guessing

If the bench seat where both would fit is any distance away, It would mean running thick welding cable to avoid voltage drop.

Can you find a decent route for a pair of hefty cables? Say out thru floor and under van then back in the Bench seat.

Retails at about £1-00 per metre from welding shops.


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

*Know your battery*

Hi all,

The post on this thread highlight a problem that most if not all H/M and even some boats have ( but not as many) and that is there is no means of observing the state of the domestic battery/s on a continual basis.

The little flashing lights that I have seen fitted to the vans I have looked at are worse that useless as they give a false sense of security and no accurate information.

The working range of a battery is between 12.8 and 11.8 and to measure this you need a digital read out that gives you at least 1 decimal point but preferably 2 points readout.

Yes you will see votages higher than 12.8 but that is a surface charge when the battery is being charged, as an aside it also indicates that; when you are consuming amps it is the charging device and not the battery that is providing the power, so if you have a solar panel and you see more than 12.8 you will know that the panel is keeping up with your consuption.

For years the boating faternaty have been dealing with this problem and it is well recognized that battery manufactures make some outrages claims and it is also generally recognized that pound for pound the bog standard vehicle battery will give better value for money than all the fancy leisure/deep cycle supper dupper expensive ones will, BUT; and there is a but, the battery must not be allowed to discharge down to a level where sulfating takes place and that level is 11.8 hence the need for a better system than flashing lights.

This need not be an expensive thing to set up, you can buy a battery monitor from some one like "Adverc" which can give you a constant readout or you can use a cheepo digi meter set up on volts and permenatly wired up to the battery, it will have its own battery on board so you will need to turn it of and on to save its battery or use a votage dropper and power it direct from the main battery.

On my boat I have the cheapest batterys I could find (200amp for 80 euro) and they are still working after 3 nearly 4 years, do the sums your self!

Dont be conned into spending a lot of money for a marginal improvement, but I repeat you must not let the voltage drop into the sulfating level.

Good luck, Doug.


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

I agree the standard Lead acid is still the best battery, I use leisure bats because of the proper vent tubes, makes venting the battery far easier, use ordinary bats and then you need a sealed container and then vent the container.

Batteries usefaul range is pretty much as Doug Says spread over one Volt from fully charged (and settled) only thing I would add to that is that the fully charged top reading can vary on my Leisures its 12.9 V The max you want to take out is 50% so with mine, I wont let them go blow 12.4

A lead acid batteries sulphate its a natural chemical process, but like Doug says, the further you discharge the battery the heavier the layer becomes and the harder it is for weak battery chargers to remove. Leave it on there for any length of time and it becomes very hard to remove, this is the reason Caravan shops stock loads of batteries in March, people have left the battery in a discharged state over winter and the Zig type chargers cannot get past it to charge the battery.

Battery management meters read the amps in and amps out, bit on the expensive side but it is the best system for monitoring. Maplins are doing a multimeter at the moment for £4.99 great for checking the batteries.

George


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Know your battery*



Doug60 said:


> Snip:
> The working range of a battery is between 12.8 and 11.8 and to measure this you need a digital read out that gives you at least 1 decimal point but preferably 2 points readout.


Hi

I use this useful voltage chart to check my batteries.

Print it out and stick it on the back of your digital voltmeter.










Mike


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## rodders (May 1, 2005)

Hi guys

Little piece of advice on checking batteries. When I worked in the motor industry the large 2 spiked contraption you refer to was considered by our electrician as a sure fire way to buckle the plates inside and lived in the back of a cupboard.
I have seen these used all over and they remind me of sitting in the dentists chair with a treddle powered drill, out of the dark ages.
Don't let them use these tools on your battery, a small volt meter will cost so little and can prove handy for so many jobs it has to be a good investment.
I keep the van permanently attatched to mains at home, I turn all non nessecary components. The alarm is mains and runs of the house system triggering the house alarm if activated. Current battery is 5 years old, standard leisure type.rarely heavy usage but still going strong.

George can you confirm that the spiky things are bad.

Rodders


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

rodders said:


> George can you confirm that the spiky things are bad.
> 
> Rodders


Hey Rodders thats not nice :lol:

Spiky Spykal


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## 88724 (May 9, 2005)

Hi Rodders

I tend to avoid mentioning that, it leads to the "my auto electrician uses one" and "who the hell do you think you are" type conversations. I dont like the idea of shorting a battery and watching the drop, for leisure purposes its a bit pointless. In the hands of a spotty untrained oink at Quick Fit it could actually knacker the battery up

Hi Mike

That chart could be misleading, depending on the battery spec, ie the specific gravity which is altered from country to country, for this country that would be generally to low ie over here 12.8 to 12.9 is usual. For warmer countries the Gravity would be lower and the Voltage.

George


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Rodders
> 
> Hi Mike
> 
> ...


Hi George

Yes I agree with you entirely, but some motorhomes only have an analogue meter fitted which can be far more misleading. With this chart and a digital meter one is able to come to understand the ebb and flow of the battery and get used to how much capacity is left and which appliances are hammering the battery.

It was not posted as "THE" way to check a batteries capacity, it was posted because some folks don't have the faintest idea of what we are talking about :lol: but they do want a simple way to check a battery without going to the trouble of checking the specific gravity of the electrolyte. The battery voltage shown on a digital meter can certainly help in establishing its condition.

By the way for anyone wondering where to stick the probes of the meter....they can be inserted into the openings in the normal flat pin 12volt outlet. It is then enlightening to note the voltage changes as you switch on various items in the van.

Mike


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## brimo (May 10, 2005)

This is all good stuff lads, I'm certainly learning. Have already ordered my multimeter from Maplins. Will have a better idea of what to do when we come to connect the two leisure batteries.

Thjanks again and.... keep those hints and tips coming


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## brimo (May 10, 2005)

I think what we will do is..... replace the battery that's under the passenger seat then fit another in a box behind the swivel passenger seat. Don't think it will be in the way there but at least we won't have a major re-wire to do  

We suppose that if we need an inverter we could attach one to that 2nd leisure battery?

More when we get the batteries and start the job !!


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## 91698 (May 1, 2005)

The so called "SPIKEY THINGS" do indeed buckle the plates and have been known to for some time, regular use has done damage to some batteries to the extent that either 1 or more cells are rendered useless.

I pesonally use a hydrometer to test each cell of my two lead acid oldham 110Ah batteries,one which has an output on multimeter of 13.6v and the other has 13.2v.

brez


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## 89601 (May 31, 2005)

Brimo!

Don´t forget the exhaust hose from the battery to get rid of gases from it when loading. Maybe you can connect a hose to the old battery´s by means of a T-junction.


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

Michael_Johansson said:


> Brimo!
> 
> Don´t forget the exhaust hose from the battery to get rid of gases from it ................................


In our last van, a Swift, we replaced the 85aph battery under the seat with a 110aph. We found that the old battery was sitting on the plastic exhaust tube which was squashed flat and obviously unable to do the job it was supposed to of dropping gas through the floor.


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## 89601 (May 31, 2005)

In my last MH, a Mirage fully integrated (A-class?) from 1988, I had the homebattery under one of the seats. There was nu hose at all and we survived! Perhaps it´s not so much gas coming out of the battery that it makes any difference.
Today we have a CI Mizar with one 110 ah under each front seat. Those are equipped with a hose.


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