# Cycling, a cautionary tale...



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Couldn't think of anywhere else to put this, but I know lots of motorhomers use bikes so.......

Me and the missus have been cycling for as long as I can remember. We always carry bikes with us on our travels.
A few years ago I suggested we get ourselves a helmet each, "wear a helmet?" she said, "They look so naff, I'd rather end up with brain damage than be seen wearing one of those" she joked. 
I have to say, I'm not keen on them either and we left it at that.

One evening last week she was cycling to work, temperatures had suddenly dropped and you can probably guess the rest....

There was black ice on the roads, Judy fell off her bike onto the hard tarmac. She suffered some pretty horrendous bruising to her thigh and various other area's down her right side, she's been off work for a few days but is now recovering well, although the bruises are not a pretty sight.

Today she pointed out to me where she had come a cropper. 
There were concrete kerbs and walls close to where she fell. It dawned on us both that she could quite easily have fallen differently and hit her head instead of falling on her side.
I dread to think of the consequences had this been the case.

This afternoon, on our way shopping we stopped at Halfords and I suggested we go and have a look at helmets again. 

Unlike last time I mentioned it, this time she seemed quite keen....

Merry Christmas and stay safe, whatever you ride or drive. :wink: 

Pete


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Yes, it's one of those things that you never really think about. All of our grandchildren have it drummed into them to wear a helmet when cycling, but we don't bother. It's all going back to those carefree days as teenagers when we had no fear and cycled everywhere, speeding down hills with brakes that hardly worked, and occasionally skidding off with a few scratches. However I do remember a couple of occasions where I went A over T, once when messing about with school friends when I bit the pavement (two front teeth chipped / broken) and again going to school on a dreadful morning when I piled into the back of a car. Maybe I wouldn't have bit the pavement if I'd had a helmet on (protection at the front?), and likewise hitting the car. 
When you're older you see all the accidents waiting to happen that you didn't when you were invincible at 15!
:roll: :wink:


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Pete: I'll show this to my wife-she's of the anti-helmet brigade!


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

Gladd the missus is ok mate.it dont matter how "NAFF" they look,they can save your life.I used to do quite alot of off road mountain biking and the helmet I wore saved me on more than one occasion.I remember one incident where I nearly went unconsious,and if it were`nt for the helmet,who knows what might of happened. 8O 

steve


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## tommytli (Aug 7, 2008)

ive seen some nasty thing when people dont wear safety gear on there bike. i do downhill mountain biking and wear full body armour and full face helmet for protection. i think you should tell your wife they will look a lot dafter in a wheel chair for not wearing one :wink:


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## litcher (Jul 24, 2006)

On the now rare occasions when I cycle I always wear a helmet. 

Years ago when we lived in London our neighbours' teenage son was cycling home from his Saturday job in a bike shop. The traffic was heavy and while trying to keep out of the way he clipped the kerb. He came off and his head hit the pavement. His helmet broke but other than a few bruises he was ok. It could so easily have been his head!


Viv


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## 112162 (May 12, 2008)

Having suffered a head injury seven years ago resulting in 18 mths off sick from work and knowing what I now know about the legacy of head injury, I would suggest that your wife, and anbody else, really would prefer to take whatever actions she can to limit her risk. 
I was wearing a hat and still suffered but it would have been very much worse without.
Forget how you look wearing your safety helmet, forget how your hair will look but just remember that it might mean that you can continue to live a normal life, that you won't need to relearn to speak, or have to deal with a lack of temper control, or suffer from emotional disturbance, loss of memory or any of the other problems that a simple bang on the head can cause.
I still have fun on mountain bikes, horses, sailing or whatever interests me but my head will always be encased in a suitable hard hat.
If you would like anymore info on the subject then take a look at the web site of the charity that provide a huge amount of support to head injury sufferers and their carers as well as general information for anybody else that is interested.
Remember life is short enough anyway - enjoy what you have but look after it.
Sorry if this sounds sanctimonious or if this cases upset to anyone.


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## annetony (May 1, 2005)

I would definately advise anyone to wear a cycle helmet
quite a few years ago my cousins husband was going home on his bike after working in his shop in Weymouth, he was on his bike when he said bye to his friend, clipped the kerb and came off his bike

He hit his head on the kerb and 2 days later they turned off his life support machine, he wasn't wearing a helmet

the irony of it, is that he had a Honda Silverwing and started cycling to work as his GP told him to get more exercise, we were more scared that he ould get hurt on his motorbike and never once thought it would be his bike

A man was knocked off his bike outside my house this morning, he didn't have a helmet on either, I saw him being carted off in an ambulance when I was going to work

Anne


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Just to mention a hobby-horse of mine. Make sure the helmet is fitted properly. When the straps are properly adjusted you shouldn't be able to tilt it back on your head. I cringe every time I see a child like this but have learned the hard way that parents don't like it being pointed out, however diplomatically.

Dave


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

Crikey! Don't we hate taking our own advice! :roll:

_*Whatever you'd advise for others, learn to do it yourself!*_

I happen to like my helmet. It says _*BOSS*_ on it! :roll: :lol:


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

_Me and the missus have been cycling_ come on Peejay, lets see a pic of your wife's husband in his hat. As it happens I think she looks quite the business in hers 

stew


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Hat*

A hat is probably the most essential piece of kit really. A good hat is more important than a good bike.

When I started horse riding, the first decent thing I bought was the hat. Then a body warmer type thing that is reinforced. Jodphur were low down the list but I eventually did the deed.

Glad Judy is on the mend.

Russell


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## navman (May 10, 2005)

Helmets were discussed on this Thread Not everyone will agree that helmets are a good idea.

I have to say I always wear one.... But then, with my looks, I have never worried about looking 'cool' :lol:


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

Having read this http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1052.html I'm totally confused about cycle helmets.


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

There is a whole rake of opinion against cycle helmets on the web. In many peoples opinion they serve little benefit. The main cause of serious injury and death to cyclists is as a result of collision with cars where the wearing of a helmet is of limited use. Also I'm told helmets need only be designed to protect agains head/tarmac inpact up to a maximum of 15mph


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

I am an experieinced cyclist who regularly does 100-200 miles per week.

Ignoring the debate about cycle helmets, i believe one THE most important items is a pair of gel gloves.

Why?

Well the first thing you do when in a crash is to put your hands out - its instinctive

I have gone through many a pair of gloves, which have saved cuts etc to my hands.

Safe riding...


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## lafree (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi,If you value your head get a cycling hat,I've had two accidents on my bike in the last two year one a lapse in concentration hit the kerb broken hat and specs,the second taken out by girl on here mobile phone on a bend hospitalised hat damaged again this could have been my head.
Regards Lafree.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

artona said:


> Hi
> 
> _Me and the missus have been cycling_ come on Peejay, lets see a pic of your wife's husband in his hat. As it happens I think she looks quite the business in hers
> stew


Aw ok Stew, if you insist....

Pete


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I cycle many miles each week and always wear a helmet. I can speak from first hand experience that they can and do save injurys. 

I do agree about gloves as well they can save your hands 

Richard...


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

It would seem from the report below that if you wear a helmet you may in fact be more likely to be involved in an accident. This is because it is believed helmets may induce a false sense of security in the rider thus making the rider less defensive.

interestingly it also states that in Australia where helmets are mandatory, fatalities since the law came in have actually increased in real terms.


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## zulurita (May 9, 2005)

Think I had better get myself a helmet.


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## tommytli (Aug 7, 2008)

i split a helmet once when i hit a tree on a downhill track i reckon it savedmy life. a pic of me on my bike with full face helmet body armour and knee and shin pads


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

I assume you wouldn't have done this downhill coarse without the helmet and body armour as you believed it would protect you. If you hadn't had that equipment you wouldnt have taken the risk and so avoided the wipe out. I wonder if the same thing applies to road cycling in that if you have the helmet you think the chance of being killed in an accident is lessened. Maybe it will be lessened, maybe it wont the danger is you might think it will.


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## 118052 (Nov 8, 2008)

*Cycling helmets*

As a keen touring cyclist and a mountain biker of some madness my advice is not only to buy and use a helmet but to make sure it fits properly and is correctly adjusted. I see too many helmet wearers with the thing sitting on the back of their head - not a good place for it to be as you need to protect your forehead, particularly during a 'nosedive' over the handlebars! Please take some time and adjust the straps, this piece of plastic could save your life....


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> It would seem from the report below that if you wear a helmet you may in fact be more likely to be involved in an accident. This is because it is believed helmets may induce a false sense of security in the rider thus making the rider less defensive.
> 
> interestingly it also states that in Australia where helmets are mandatory, fatalities since the law came in have actually increased in real terms.


It is the same argument as I have relayed that the best car safety measure is to ban all the belts, ABS, traction control, ICE, comfort and insulation and mandate a 9" spike in the centre of the steering wheel, resulting in an immediate explosion of care, consideration and courtesy on the roads.

Dave


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> There is a whole rake of opinion against cycle helmets on the web. In many peoples opinion they serve little benefit. The main cause of serious injury and death to cyclists is as a result of collision with cars where the wearing of a helmet is of limited use.* Also I'm told helmets need only be designed to protect agains head/tarmac inpact up to a maximum of 15mph*


..didn't know that but like I said, if her head had taken the hit on the tarmac instead of her hip, then without a doubt a helmet would have saved her life or at the very least prevented nasty head injuries, thats good enough reason for me.

Pete


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

clodhopper2006, as a matter of interest, why did you feel you needed to contribute to this thread ??


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Sorry. That question went whistling right over my head. It's a forum isnt it?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

cycling can be a dangerous sport!


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> Sorry. That question went whistling right over my head. It's a forum isnt it?


I just could not work out what you were trying to say apart from your making unsubstantiated assumptions about other peoples reasoning. 
As has been suggested before, if you take your reasoning to its ultimate conclusion then all safety devices should be banned because they just encourage people to take risks!!! Doh!! - maybe works for you but not for anyone I know.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Clodhopper's observations are quite correct, and I don't see why he should be criticised for posting them. 8O

Criticising the observations (as I am about to do) is different altogether, and can *(should !!)* be done without personal animosity toward the original poster in person. 



clodhopper2006 said:


> There is a whole rake of opinion against cycle helmets on the web.


There is an equal rake of opinion *for *cycle helmets on the web. 



clodhopper2006 said:


> In many peoples opinion they serve little benefit.


"_Many people_" are entitled to that opinion, but it is only an opinion and has little real value in a logical or statistical discussion. :?



clodhopper2006 said:


> The main cause of serious injury and death to cyclists is as a result of collision with cars where the wearing of a helmet is of limited use.


No arguments here, but note that it is quoted as the main cause of _"*serious injury and death*_".

As a blanket argument against helmets this is misleading and nonsensical.

It is the "main cause" so there are obviously other causes against which a helmet may well offer excellent protection.

It gives the impression that wearers of helmets are concerned only with protecting themselves from serious injury or death - again, not a very sensible comment. :roll:

* (Reminder in case anyone is getting hot under the collar. None of this is aimed personally at Clodhopper. I am shooting the message, not the messenger.) *



clodhopper2006 said:


> Also I'm told helmets need only be designed to protect agains head/tarmac inpact up to a maximum of 15mph


Yep. Probably quite accurate.

*Definitely not* an argument *against *wearing a helmet however, although in the context of the whole quote it might appear as such.

If I fell off at 15mph I would quite like to have a helmet between my skull and the road, or the pavement edge!! 8O 8O

My opinion . . . and that's all it is . . . persuades me to wear a helmet to help protect myself from the potentially non-lethal, and even not-very-serious accidents that *never get included in the statistics*, but which are bloody and painful nonetheless.


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I firmly believe that there are those who are able to make their own decisions and there are those who cannot. 


Those who cannot are, for the most part, children. I never offered my children the option of not wearing a helmet when cycling. Neither did I offer them the option of not wearing seat belts in the car, or armoured kit on the back of my bikes.


However, adults are, by my definition, able to make up their own minds. If they can gather information and use that information to make a decision, and if their decision is not to wear a helmet, so be it. For that reason, I dont belive that helmets for push bikes should be made compulsory, with the caveat that if head injury is suffered by an adult on a push bike, ( whatever the circumstances) then thats tough. Hard cheese. It was your choice, and dont think you can go down the " claims R us " route.

I cant see that anyone would believe that a pedal cycle helmet will prevent or reduce serious head injury in anything but low speed impacts, however, since thems most common, thats when the helmets needed, and gloves, as was said by a wiser man than me


" I can ride my bike without much feel for the controls, but I cant wipe my A*se without fingers".....


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Bandaid,

Largely I agree, but apparently a civilised society sees the need to legislate to protect people from their own stupidity. The corollary is that a significant fraction of the population must be stupid. 

I wore a motorcycle crash helmet, but didn't like being made to (in fact I recall mulling whether I should become a Sikh in protest). I wore seatbelts, but didn't like them being made compulsory either..

Dave


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## hiker (Jun 22, 2008)

The originator of this thread wasn't trying to make them compulsory, just pointing out that they've just realised that wearing a helmet made sense for the sort of accident which unfortunately happens to most road cyclists - sliding off on a corner, clipping someone else's wheel, the kerb, a pothole, etc. Between ourselves, family & friends we've seen enough of the benefit helmets provide against tarmac to always wear them. Someone into serious MTBing would be highly irresponsible not to, in the same way that one has to have the correct safety kit for any sport.

The argument will run & run - maybe the energy should be channelled into campaigning for better helmets?


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I agree.

before the seat belt law was passed, almost every RTC we went to would have injuries which included severe maxillo-facial trauma. even a small impact speed would result in impact between face and vehicle, which made our job as EMT's much more challenging ( and interesting, sort of). I learned the art of Intubation from virtually every angle including upside down.....then the seat belt law was passed, and overnight ( literally in my case, I went to an RTA within the firt 20 mins of my shift starting) and nothing. 20mph impact, and not a single cut or graze.......terrible efficient, but very tedious profesionally... :wink: 

So in a way, I'm with Clodhoper on this, if we're adult enough to work, raise a family, pay the bills etc, we should be adult enought to make decision about our safety on the road. So, I wouldnt legislate. I know that I'm safer with a helmet on when riding a push bike, but I dont want to compelled to wear one. There again, given my state of fitness I'm safer not riding at all, .....


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Sorry if this has annoyed you Aultymer but I'm afraid you have to understand that people may not necessarily agree with your point of view. In an adult world we deal with that by putting our point of view to balance the other without resorting to churlish behaviour.
My points were to enable people to realize that opinion on whether or not to wear a helmet or extensive both for and against.
For the record, I am a keen cyclist both road racing and touring having completed LEJOG and many other tours both in the UK and on the continent.

Also for the record I always wear a helmet having listened to both sides of the argument carefully!


Bob


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

Only because of his remarkable physical fitness is my dad still alive. One sunny afternoon in 2000, after cycling 45 miles, he was knocked down by a carelessly driven Securicor lorry pulling out from a junction.

Dad had never worn a helmet.

He had dreadful skull fractures.

He spent seven weeks in hospital.

For a very long time he looked dead. The photograph shows him on a general ward about 7 - 10 days after the crash (note: not accident, crash). There was no High Dependency Unit in Hereford's hospital and subsequently, and probably consequently, dad developed pneumonia and suffered a heart attack.

Three years later he was finally about as good as he'd get, mentally slower, physically much slower and distraught that, having failed a fierce DVLA re-test, he was unable to drive. Dad is of that generation of cyclists an apparent majority of whom believe(d?), and he probably still does, that helmets are an uncomfortable imposition and that he would rather not wear one and be killed outright, than "cabbaged".

Me, I believe that skulls are not as strong as roads, vehicles, lampposts, etc. and helmets can save lives and reduce, (the severity of), injuries.

The lorry driver had a nervous breakdown, a divorce and lost his job.

Given the choice, (as one is at present), whilst a lorry collides with you, would you rather wear a helmet, or not?


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

clodhopper2006, I am not sure why you regard my behaviour as churlish but I do feel strongly that we should all be careful about the perceived advice we publish. 
I am sorry that people still have the choice regarding helmets. 

We do not have the choice re seat belts, using a mobile when driving or even where you can smoke and I welcome all these. I am in favour of a nanny state when people need it and many do need it. See above horror tales!!


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

Smilo

Thanks for sharing your Dad unlucky event with us. As a fellow cyclist I ride on club runs and yes some of the oldies still dont use helmets. Thanks fully most of the younger (under 45) generation do seem to use helmets. 

I have seen a fellow rider get knocked of his bike at about 25MPH, his helmet was total smashed to bits but his head was ok. Thats is a good enough reason to use a helmet.

I compete in MTB racing where a helmet is compulsory, but I also do some time trial racing on the road where it is not at the moment.

Me I always use a helmet on or off road. 

Please pass on my regards to your Dad


Richard...


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## pomme1 (May 19, 2005)

I am a lifelong cyclist, racing, touring etc you name it. I was also for some time a council member for one of the sport's governing bodies. I therefore claim some knowledge of the subject. If you mention helmets on any of the cycling forums you will get a response which will dwarf the 'Juddergate' thread.
I was against helmets until a few years ago and am still against compulsion, simply on the basis that I believe in giving people (adults) the facts and letting them choose for themselves. Serious injuries to two friends in 2002, however, one of whom is still in care and unlikely ever to leave, made me change my mind. I now wear a helmet which weighs next to nothing and keeps my head as cool as riding bare-headed, it did, however, cost £130!
Can I just make a plea - if you're going to buy a helmet, of any price, then go to a 'proper' bike shop where you at least stand a chance of finding someone who understands how they should fit and can show you how to adjust and wear it. I too cringe when I see people wearing a helmet perched on the back of their head - utterly useless.


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## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

For those advocating a Law remember that for the most part the Law is "one size fits all". When they try and include opt outs etc. the law becomes a real bat's breakfast that you can drive an intercity express train through. Labour haven't woken up to this fact yet and think, wrongly, that their laws are well crafted! Dog's dinner is more like it.

I'm not in favour of _any_ Nanny State laws and believe they all should be repealed.

Instead, I believe that if you have an accident that is your fault then you lose the right to any sort of compensation and possibly should pay towards the costs of the accident.

Getting back on topic. I have ridden over 150,000 miles on motorbikes and over 10,000 miles on bicycles. Every single mile of the 150,000 miles on a motorcycle was ridden wearing a helmet and, when helmets became available for bicycles, I always rode my bikes with a helmet.

My life, my choice, my expense.


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

RichardnGill said:


> Me I always use a helmet on or off road. Please pass on my regards to your Dad
> 
> Richard...


I will, and thank you. I thought it worth mentioning that for several years beforehand, and since, I had been paying for my dad's membership of the excellent http://www.ctc.org.uk/ and as a result was able to claim on his behalf a significantly large amount of compensation. With hindsight we might have tried for more, but at 74yrs of age he wasn't expected to keep going this long!

At 82yrs he wears a helmet and a bright "yellow jersey" style fluorescent-ish jacket and cycles several times a week up to about 25 miles on the longer runs, this despite the fact that his balance is poor, and that frightens him, and he has difficulty turning his head to look over his shoulder before changing direction on the approach to a junction, etc. So if you're travelling through central Herefordshire, do please give an extra wide berth to the silly old bugger.


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

OK, I think I'm now convinced that I should get a helmet but I'm also concerned that some types are described as almost useless. 

What should I look for and roughly what price range? My cycling is really only on motorhome trips.


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## UncleNorm (May 1, 2005)

It's been a fascinating debate which has some relevance to Auntie Sandra and me. Our son is a seriously HUGE fan of cycling. He recently completed a 500 mile, six day challenge with the US Air Force. He has touring, road racing and mountain bikes. His wife has a couple, as do the grandsons, aged 8 and six.

At present, they live in Louisiana where the Law is very specific, especially with regards to cyclists under twelve wearing cycle helmets. Without wishing to prolong the debate, I offer the following extract from the Baton Rouge Government Website:



> RS 32:199 Bicycle Helmets; Restraining Seats
> 
> With regard to any bicycle used on a public roadway, public bicycle path, or other public right-of-way, no parent, guardian, or person with legal responsibility for the safety and welfare of a child shall knowingly allow any of the following:
> 
> ...


I said in another thread that I have a theory: the longer one goes without the inevitable happening, the more likely it is to happen!

_*I hereby promise to wear my helmet when on the bike and will ensure that anyone in my care will wear theirs.*_


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

parkmoy said:


> OK, I think I'm now convinced that I should get a helmet but I'm also concerned that some types are described as almost useless.
> 
> What should I look for and roughly what price range? My cycling is really only on motorhome trips.


It's really up to you. All cycling helmets have to conform to the same Brittish and European standards ensuring that the helmet will perform within set parameters. Helmets start to increase in price as they get lighter, more stylish and more elaborate ventilation.
Go to the shops and have a look at what takes your fancy and try it on. Make sure it fits with little fore/aft port/starboard movement, then if the price is ok for you, buy it.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

A fascinating thread with excellent cross-links to other papers. I have found it a valuable exercise to read it.

Oe must remember that statistics can be used to prove any argument you want! We have seen this being done to a very high level of proficiency by HM Government over many issues. So statistics, even in authoratitve papers may not tell the whole truth. In the end we have to decide for ourselves, at present.

I have cycled for many years and have worn helmets for about the last 30, I agree they are not always well fitted - this makes them fairly useless IMHO, but a well fitted helmet DOES protect my head from some injuries, even if it is at slow speed.

I agree that it is everyone's right NOT to wear a helmet at present, I personally believe it should be compulsory but that is my opinion. I also respect the rights of others to hold different opinions even if I do not agree with their opinions. I do not take umbrage at these differences and don't believe that many people would (perhaps I am wrong but that has happened before!).

I also think that in these litigious days failure to protect oneself against reasonably forseeable injury should reduce the amount of compensation that can be claimed if the RTC is due to someone elses carelessness.

But those are my opinions and I would not wish to impose them on anyone else. At present we all have the right to choose, if this is to change the decision will be made by our elected representatives who will probably be criticised whichever way they go. Some of our MP's ride bikes regularly, (probably the best way round London), we have seen them with helmets in various places, heads, bags, panniers, handlebars and so on - I wonder what they would say if asked about making them compulsory?


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

Penquin said:


> Some of our MP's ride bikes regularly, (probably the best way round London), we have seen them with helmets in various places, heads, bags, panniers, handlebars and so on...


David Cameron would probably lock his bicycle to his helmet. :lol:


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## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Been chatting about this with locavan, and apart from me really cool pressie, it made me think about cycle helmets and ther safety gear. So, I advocate the use, but not the legislation for adults, so I do belive that it should be compulsory for juveniles. 

But, I ask myself, and anyone else interested, if we presume an adult to be 18 years or over, ( 'cos its easier, and I know about buses, trains, airlines, cinemas etc) how would the compulsory law for cycle helmets be enforced?

Is it practical to make parents responsible?, epecially as the child can wear the helmet when near home, and nick it off when round the corner..... would we fine the 13 year old?, confiscate his bike? community service for the 11 year old, and if the child, God forbid is out on his own under 10, then they dont know better anyway, according to law, ( I wouldnt be surprised to see under 10's without an adult nearby). 

Good......wearing helmet

Bad....legislation to force wearing of helmets.



I think.


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

bandaid said:


> .....would we fine the 13 year old?, confiscate his bike? community service for the 11 year old, and if the child, God forbid is out on his own under 10, then they dont know better anyway, according to law, ( I wouldnt be surprised to see under 10's without an adult nearby). Good......wearing helmet Bad....legislation to force wearing of helmets. I think.


How about nominated social workers (from Haringey?), to be detailed to sieze the child or young person and at midday on a Saturday to bash its head gently against a set of bullbars (taken from any motorhome, campervan or SUV and) mounted in the town square (next to the ducking stool and stocks)?


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

Penguin - the best post bar far

I totally agree with everything 100%.

A great post.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Mrs Pete looks positively fetching in her helmet, :wink: all joking aside though we too have learned a painful lesson. A similar thing happened to Mrs Wobby this year down in Spain. She hurt herself quite a lot cut under her eye when her sun glasses made contact with the tarmac, as well as a lot of cuts and bruises to her nee' and leg, so we too are going to buy at Halfords. 

"Safe cycling" Wobby


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Mrs Pete looks positively fetching in her helmet, :wink: all joking aside though we too have learned a painful lesson. A similar thing happened to Mrs Wobby this year down in Spain. She hurt herself quite a lot cut under her eye when her sun glasses made contact with the tarmac, as well as a lot of cuts and bruises to her nee' and leg, so we too are going to buy at Halfords. 

"Safe cycling" Wobby


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

wobby said:


> ... we too are going to buy at Halfords.


If you don't need to travel much further, do spend your money at your local _real_ bicycle shop. Halfords = Halfwits generally and their staff in my experience know rather less than nothing about bicycles and equipment and will sell you the wrong stuff because they just don't care. (Peanuts, monkeys, etc.).


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

wobby said:


> Mrs Pete looks positively fetching in her helmet, :wink: all joking aside though we too have learned a painful lesson. A similar thing happened to Mrs Wobby this year down in Spain. She hurt herself quite a lot cut under her eye when her sun glasses made contact with the tarmac, as well as a lot of cuts and bruises to her nee' and leg, so we too are going to buy at Halfords.
> 
> "Safe cycling" Wobby


Cheers Wobby, there appears to be a few other 'converts' as a result of this post, so that makes me a happy bunny.



smilo said:


> If you don't need to travel much further, do spend your money at your local real bicycle shop. Halfords = Halfwits generally and their staff in my experience know rather less than nothing about bicycles and equipment and will sell you the wrong stuff because they just don't care. (Peanuts, monkeys, etc.).


Smilo, I know what you mean but my local Halfrauds were actually very helpful, they didn't point us to most expensive one but the one that was the best fit for Mrs Pete's head, surprised they had such a strange size in stock :roll:

 Safe travels 

Pete


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

peejay said:


> Smilo, I know what you mean but my local Halfrauds were actually very helpful . . . . .
> Pete


I'm not surprised Pete. 

I wouldn't knock Halfrauds bike departments in general, although some of them are pretty useless. :roll:

It all depends on the staff in that department of each individual store.

For example, the store in Tewkesbury is excellent for bike sales and advice. No surprise if you know that a nearby "proper" bike shop closed down a couple of years ago and their very experienced mechanic now works at Halfords in charge of bikes.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The Halfords in Digby, Exeter (built on the site of the former Mental Health Hospital!) are VERY good about bikes and accessories. Their staff also seem to be heavily involved in cycling themselves and have been seen in a whole variety of events from Mountain Biking to road racing - hence presumably why they seem to know what they are talking about.

BUT we got our helmets from a reputable local shop (owner occupier) who sponsors and supports many of the local cycle events!

In my case we replaced a helmet that looked and felt superb - built to Australian standards, looked excellent until we realised it was 14 years old! Whoops! They do have a "best before" date because routine wear and tear will eventually weaken them, do check when your's was made! They can give a false impression of confidence about security as has been mentioned in other posts for other reasons.


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

> All cycling helmets have to conform to the same Brittish and European standards ensuring that the helmet will perform within set parameters. Helmets start to increase in price as they get lighter, more stylish and more elaborate ventilation.


Thanks for that. So to be perfectly clear, from a safety effectiveness point of view, a helmet is a helmet as long as it fits properly and regardless of price?

There are no helmets that are more effective than others?


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

parkmoy said:


> > All cycling helmets have to conform to the same Brittish and European standards ensuring that the helmet will perform within set parameters. Helmets start to increase in price as they get lighter, more stylish and more elaborate ventilation.
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. So to be perfectly clear, from a safety effectiveness point of view, a helmet is a helmet as long as it fits properly and regardless of price?
> ...


Yes! your choice is whether or not you want to look like Lance Armstrong or Hagar the Horrible 

Bob


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## parkmoy (Jul 4, 2007)

> your choice is whether or not you want to look like Lance Armstrong or Hagar the Horrible


Ah, if only a helmet could make the difference


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

parkmoy said:


> > All cycling helmets have to conform to the same Brittish and European standards ensuring that the helmet will perform within set parameters. Helmets start to increase in price as they get lighter, more stylish and more elaborate ventilation.
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. So to be perfectly clear, from a safety effectiveness point of view, a helmet is a helmet as long as it fits properly and regardless of price?
> ...


I don't think that is entirely true, the EU set a minimum standard that a product must attain. That is not to say that a manufacturer can't make a product to a higher standard, one needs only to look at motorcycle helmets to see this.

Wobby


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

Penquin said:


> They do have a "best before" date because routine wear and tear will eventually weaken them, do check when your's was made!


Where to find that date? On a sticker (long gone?), or pressed into the construction somewhere?

Or more generally, how long might the optimum life of a helmet be? (I'm thinking this might be the excuse I need to buy one which looks less like a model of a squashed zeppelin-style helmet). Some web pages seem to be advocating replacement after two years!!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Smilo

Don't take this as gospel since I am not an expert, but I think the condition of the helmet is the crucial factor, rather than its "use by" date.

They are usually made of expanded polystyrene with a thin plastic cover, and are designed to crush on impact. This absorbs the forces gradually, just like the crumple zone on a car.

If there is even a slight crack in the polystyrene, from having been dropped for example, it is likely to split open at the crack rather than crumple, and will therefore be far less effective in protecting your bonce!

Because of the cover it is rarely possible to inspect a helmet thoroughly for physical damage (or even wear and tear) so it is considered sensible to change it at intervals just to be on the safe side.

I know motorbike helmets are made of different materials, but the same principles apply - only more so!! That's why some serious bikers always lay their helmets on the floor rather than on the table . . . . so they cannot be knocked off and fall to the ground.

Even a drop of only a metre onto a hard surface is considered enough to render a very expensive helmet "dustbin fodder".

Hope this helps.

As I say . . . I'm not an expert, so please make up your own mind. 8O


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## colonel (Oct 11, 2008)

This type of debate has been going on in the Motorcycle fraternity for years also but related to wearing suitable protective clothing. (Helmets are already compulsory and have been since the seventies).

The same choices apply. We as bikers KNOW that if we come off on a road and we have no proper protective Gloves, Jackets, Leather trousers etc, we are going to suffer some very nasty injuries. And this is from someone who has suffered in this way.

However, I have stood and watched a Biker at a well know meeting place for Bikers, do wheelies in front of a large crowd, in nothing other than his underpants, and briefs at that. Why does he do that? Is he stupid - In my view definitely. In his view and the view of many others - No he's just having fun.

The only time I object is when after he comes off he is hospitalised with serious skin abrasions which require skin grafts and many months being cared for, and I amongst others are paying for it through the NHS. :x :x 

Adults should be able to choose but sometimes I wonder if they are always making choices based on the right information! That's why legislation of this type is generally very popular. :?


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

We all have a different tolerance to Risk.

I tend to find that those who, on the face of it, are willing to accept the greatest Risks, feel as though they have the least to lose.


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## AndrewandShirley (Oct 13, 2007)

I am no expert either and only wear mine when racing when its compulsory. (No lectures please)

But I choose to renew each and every season as a minimum.

Usually the most damage is caused due to dropping it, or having the bikes or bags being placed on it during transport.

I inspect each time I have to use it, and if in any doubt get another.

They are not that costly but please go to a specialist bike dealer, to get the most suitable one for your needs that fits.


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## Smilo (Nov 2, 2005)

colonel said:


> The only time I object is when after he comes off he is hospitalised....... and I amongst others are paying for it through the NHS. :x :x Adults should be able to choose but sometimes I wonder if they are always making choices based on the right information! That's why legislation of this type is generally very popular. :?


I agree with *colonel*'s views on the costs of treatment in circumstances where the injured person should have, or really did, know better, but unless there are very serious injuries, crashes are rarely investigated very thoroughly and the degree of blame is often contentious.

Mayer Hillmam, a very wise man, said in 2002, "Cyclists rarely ride into motor vehicles. Calling on cyclists to increase their safety by _wearing a helmet shifts responsibility away from drivers, the agents of danger, onto cyclists, _who are nearly always the victims. Were cycle helmets to be made compulsory, it would encourage the view that cyclists are responsible for their own injury."


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