# Here is Motleys new friend



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

She is such a friendly little cat, we call her `Itsme´.:grin2:

Not very good quality because its taken with a camera and the light was bad.
I will do another using the proper video one of these days.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Itsme and her new family.*

Click photos to enlarge. I'm sorry they are a bit blurry, I couldn´t get far enough away from the subject.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Gorgeous!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

The grey one had one eye open today :smile2:

Another new friend, not as friendly to Motley, YET, as Itsme is.

This is the gate we go in to see Itsme and the babies, Motley knows the way.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

We go to visit Itsme every evening about 6pm and I take her a packet of cat food so as soon as she here's my voice she comes out of her shed to greet me.
Today the kittens have their eyes fully open. I show them to Motley every day so he is always keen to go out at 6pm and heads straight for the gate and waits for me to open it, he says hello to Itsme and heads straight to the kittens.
I'll take the camera tomorrow.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

JanHank said:


> We go to visit Itsme every evening about 6pm and I take her a packet of cat food so as soon as she here's my voice she comes out of her shed to greet me.
> Today the kittens have their eyes fully open. I show them to Motley every day so he is always keen to go out at 6pm and heads straight for the gate and waits for me to open it, he says hello to Itsme and heads straight to the kittens.
> I'll take the camera tomorrow.


She does of course hear my voice, not what the kindle auto thingy put.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Are you tempted Jan?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

We dream only, Hans saw an advert for a 17 month old GSD in the free paper yesterday, that's how old Shade was when we first had him. Thrown the paper away😑 not looking.😡


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

We only ever have one dog at a time, now. Had some bad experiences with multiples and found that when one got left on its own it was just as happy if not happier.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I wish we had some friendly cats 

As rats seem to be our companions 

But I love my birds and a cat or two would be tying about going away 

jan you are 75 ish

A GS lasts about 12- 14 years 

So you need an old dog in need of a loving home

And shadow is 11 .......

Only joking, he makes my day begin 

But you have the chance to make an old dogs day begin

And Hans is a dog whisperer

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Sandra.
And who is going to walk this dog, lift it into the car when it can´t get in, groom it and all the other things that go with big dogs. Unfortunately no, we are no longer fit enough, we have decided and it´s the best and wisest decision.

Pat.
I think you had the wrong combinations, we've always had at least 2, before Shade and Motley we had 3, when Kristel, the Matriarch, died the other 2 went down hill quite rapidly and it was obviously they missed her as we did.

Motley is only now beginning to accept Shade is no longer here, he would look for him in all our old walking places and that was also quite obvious. Now he looks forward every day to seeing Itsme, the kittens and the other cats.
Another of the cats is now making up to him so we have named her/him Metoo, it can´t be picked up yet, just like Itsme, but we are allowed to stroke it and I have lifted it off the ground a few times, it'll soon be like Itsme and then I can look to see if it´s he or she:grin2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I forgot you have motley 

And I agree I’d never have two dogs again

And when Shadow goes 

Well we can travel far afield if joints allow it 

No longer will a hound from hell

leap on the bed when Albert gets up and talk to me 

This is one vocal hound 

To demand his meals if he’s feeling well

To adore the family visiting

To protect the van, the house 

To leave a huge gap in our life 

When he goes

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

There's still two big gaps here😥
But to go and visit Itsme, the kittens, Metoo who is getting very touchable and I can now lift it up a few inches from the ground, plus 4 or 5 others and the chickens with cockerel who also eat the dry cat food, it's a nice half hour each day.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

For us there will be only one now

The hound from hell 

Who has bit all his babies, although gently , maybe not always so gently , but respect they didn’t bleed 

And they love him this gentle and not so gentle giant 

He’s never eaten a cat , chased a few up trees 

And when this dog dies

Well he has certainly had his day 

With respect to the poem

A little dogs day 

Which probably describes a young me 

And a hound from hell , named shadow 

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

“All in the town were still asleep

When the sun came up with a shout and a leap

In the lonely street unseen by man

A little dog danced and his day began “

And how stupid is it 75 years later, possibly only 70 yrs I still
remember

I was the little dog that danced

I never accepted the children’s homes

I hated the ladies and bit all the babies

I chased all the cats up the trees and then ate them 

They thought that the devil was holding a revel .....

....Outside in the gloom of the twilight grey 

The little dog died but he’d had his day 

And I met Albert 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Very poetic Sandra!

I have had lots of combinations, Jan. They all got on with each other and mourned when one died. Some combinations were troublesome such as the hounds that would go off hunting others were mutually beneficial where a younger dog would guide an old one away from danger. Older dogs are useful for teaching puppies manners. Just last Autumn we had four here. Now down to one again.

It is the human dog interaction that is, in my opinion, better when there is only one. We can totally meet the needs of that dog without having to consider another one.

A little story.
At work we had a client with two small breed dogs. According to the owner, the dogs were "inseparable". They informed the practice that when the time came to part with one they would have to have the companion put to sleep at the same time as it would be "inconsolable" without its friend. Well, the sad day came, dog number one was eased out of this life. The owners then asked the vet to perform the same for the second dog who was, although elderly, perfectly healthy. The vet gently explained that he could not put a healthy dog to sleep. Lots of discussions and the vet, exasperated by now, offered them a consultation with me. I advised that the remaining dog should sniff the body of the deceased and to then go home for a spot of spoiling. We duly had a chat about bereavement and loss and how they could help the remaining dog to cope. They were very sceptical and mentioned words like "pining away".

I heard nothing more so followed up by telephone a week or so later only to be told that they were disgusted with said remaining dog as he was happier than he had ever been! 

He could now play with whichever toys he liked, sleep where he liked, cuddle his owners and eat his meals without another pair of eyes watching him!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> We only ever have one dog at a time, now. Had some bad experiences with multiples and found that when _*one got left on its own it was just as happy if not happier.*_


Not what you said to start with Pat.
We will have to agree to disagree on a lot as far as dogs are concerned.
Does Motley get extra attention -- no, he comes on the bed mornings and bed time for 10 minutes just the same, Shade didn't (only on the odd occasion)
He is played with equally the same because he was the ball chaser, Shade mostly ran round with his ball in his mouth and pointed out where the ball was if Motley couldn´t find it.
Motley still sits between us in the evening as and when he feels like it or it chasing after his ball exactly as before.
Is he happier--- no.
His life has not changed except his and our big and little pal are missing.

The story is irrelevant, to have the ones left behind euthanised at the same time would never cross our minds. 
Sounds a bit like a story from a dog behaviourist manual. :smile2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The story (personal experience, by the way, not from a dog behaviour manual ) was to point out that dogs, themselves, do not need a doggy companion. It was my way of explaining why we now only have one at a time. We humans often believe that dogs are not happy unless they have another dog to live with.
I read, in the paper, just recently that people are criticising other dog owners if they do not provide a "playmate" for their only dog! 
Of course, this trend may well have started with breeders hoping to offload a second puppy from the litter on to unsuspecting owners by telling them that they will be "friends"


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

At least 2 questions should be asked when getting a new dog, IMO as Dave would say :grin2:
Does this breed of dog suit your lifestyle.
Is your K9 experience sufficient to handle this breed of dog.

Mind you some dog owners shouldn't be allowed to own a hamster.>


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I agree, Jan. Sadly, it is not how it works. Most breeders love their particular breed of dog. They are blinkered to its faults and they tell prospective owners that their breed is the best in the world. When complaints reach the breeder their answer is that the dog "will grow out of it" ! 
The answer, I believe, is to make dogs much harder to come by. If the demand was much more than the supply then the suppliers (breeders and rescue centres) would be in the position to turn unsuitable owners away. If supply was really short then rescue centres would not be needed!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*I've been attached*

Been down to see Itsme and give her the usual packet of food and the other cats some dry food.
Chickens all out as normal with the cockerel and as I started walking out the cockerel attached me,
feathers all fluffed for a fight, pecking at me with his vicious beak and he started to jump, feet aimed at my legs and he's got huge feet with ginormous talons.
Luckily I had a plastic carrier bag with a plastic food box in it so gave him a few whacks with that, that didn't deter him he still kept coming at me so I gave him a hard whack and told him if he didn't back off I´d make soup from him, he backed off long enough for me to walk past him. 
Motley was with me and thank goodness he had the sense to get out of its way and wait by the gate, I don't know what sort of mess a cockerel could make of a dog who tried to defend its owner.
Anyway I think it was because I hadn't taken the chickens anything today, mind you I´ve only taken them anything special once, the rest of the time they have to a bit of dried cat food I throw to them which the chickens eat but him not, today I didn´t throw any for them so praps thats what upset him.
Any suggestion what I should take tomorrow to defend myself?:frown2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Oh yes how I remember that Jan 

The cock sweeping the ground with his wing as as he eyed me up 

Me trying to hang out the washing, keeping eye contact which was the secret 

Two cocks and I could no longer manage 

And one attacked My youngest child ,ran up his back pecked his head 

So one had to go

I cooked him but I couldn’t eat him 

So maintain eye contact , watch the that wing as it brushes the floor 

And if all else fails run

And I have such delightful memories 

Of a friend of ours in Israel, Hungi a big macho guy , and his schnauzer legging it across the field with the cock in pursuit 

Sandra


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

*"Any suggestion what I should take tomorrow to defend myself?"*

A cricket bat Jan, plastic bags are too soft.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Drew said:


> *"Any suggestion what I should take tomorrow to defend myself?"*
> 
> A cricket bat Jan, plastic bags are too soft.


I'm not a cricketer Drew, only got Motleys Tennis racket, that's too soft as well.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

My mum told me that a Cockerel nearly gored my eyes out when I was a crawling baby. He ended up in the pot. I would take a cage and drop it over his head!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I think I´ll jut take him a handful of something, even take it out of the chickens food pot, I'm sure he was just telling me 

"OI, you haven't given my wives anything yet" :chocobo3:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Good job he is just a chicken then and not a ram or bull!!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Good job he is just a chicken then and not a ram or bull!!


We have been chased by cows in the Dales 😕 that was scarey I can tell you, 
beef cattle with young and our big dog at the time loved cows.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Crikey! A lady in our village had the same thing happen to her. She had her dog on a Flexi Lead and could not release her hand! They trampled her and, among other injuries, smashed her ankle. The dog was fine 

Stick with chickens


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Good idea, though I confess I wasn't aware that chickens trampled people. I shall be more careful around them. There's one in the oven right now. I'll just wedge the door shut. Better safe than sorry, eh?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Definitely Ernest 

Wedge that door 

A cock is no wilting lily 

No pun intended , blushing face 

The reason they used fighting cocks is because they are what they are 

We kept a cockerel it was to protect the chickens 

They are pretty tough, their wings pretty tough their beaks even tougher 

And when their wings sweep the ground, keep eye contact 

They are not playing 
Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I took the chickens a marg pot of cooked cabbage and sausage I've had in the freezer too long, he looked at me as if to say, "thank you, don't forget them again"
The kittens are very chubby, I keep forgetting to take the camera. 
There are now 3 other cats that look for me each day, they're costing more to feed than Manny did:grin2:.
It's a bit like having grandchildren, except they don't visit me and wear me out, I just stay with them as long as I want.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

exactly like grandchildren 

We have two tonight , and one has gone, the other is studying for her law articles 

Has just returned from Indonesia 

Had a fantastic time 

Her boyfriend is there for another month, a gap year

And we must not mention game of thrones 

She’s waiting for him

They will watch it together when he returns, young love 

Me and Albert old love

I’d have watched it without him >

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Where has she put them?*

Went to give her and the others there treat, also took the chickens something :grin2:
Horst her owner hadn't seen her all day, but on the way up the road I kept calling her and she came out of the neighbouring house garden (nobody living there at the moment) 
We don't know what she has done with the kittens because they are not in their `nest´.
After having her fill of everything going she cleared off, Horst following, but she went into the next garden and vanished.
Why would she move them now, they are quite big but can´t eat on their own, still feeding from her.

A few pictures of the yard, spot the cockerel.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I’m sure they are fine Jan 

Time to move on?

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

aldra said:


> I'm sure they are fine Jan
> 
> Time to move on?
> 
> Sandra


Time for who to move on, me or the kittens? 
The kittens are far too young to go anywhere on the own and I am stopping here, I don't want to move.😄


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No time for her to move her kittens jan 

Who knows why

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It is very common for cats to move their kittens. Thought to be because fleas and disease build up in the original nest. Fleas can, in large numbers, make a kitten so anaemic from the blood feeding that they die. 
Not sure if there is any evidence of it the domestic cat but in lions another male lion will kill youngsters. The cat's instinct might be to move them somewhere safer?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

As we rounded the corner a little before 6 o'clock yesterday after a day out, who should be coming towards the road across the field, our little Itsme.

I usually go down at around six every night so I would say she was coming to find me. I stopped the van, she had no idea it was me and stopped in the field, I went to the door and called her name and the tail went up and she ran towards me, I picked her up and for the first time she allowed me to turn her upside down and hold her like a baby the way I would hold Manny. When I put her down she went to the place under the tree where I used to feed her before she had the kittens. 

I didn't have any cat food with me so emptied Motleys food dish he had in the van and gave her fresh water in a container I have left under the tree for her. As we were about to drive off Metoo the black friendly one arrived to share the food.:laugh: Seeing Itsme coming to look for me made my heart go all funny.:love9:

To give you an idea of where things are:-
1. Where she normally lives
2. somewhere in here she has hidden the kittens
3. The small field she was coming from
4. where I stopped and where the oak tree is where she gets fed by me.
5. Our place

I don't know how to change the marker colour or how to get rid of the blue circle from Apples maps.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Wouldn't put the picture on with the text*


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Oh bless her Jan!  It made my heart go all funny too.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

JanHank said:


>


The blue circle on the map Jan is your location. You can turn off this feature if you want to.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Drew said:


> The blue circle on the map Jan is your location. You can turn off this feature if you want to.


How do I get that list Drew?

*OK*. I've done it.

Thanks Drew, took a bit of finding and it didn't look like your list.

Now to find how to change the colour of my marker. *Done that as well *


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I thought that wild cats and other animals moved their young 

A new secret place meant safety from possible predators who know the position 

So I don’t think it that strange 

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Kittens found*

Still on Horsts property, on the top shelf in his potting shed.
He had just found them when we arrived tonight.
They are now back in the original shed in a big cardboard box with a blanket.
I put Itsme in the box with food, Horst then brought the kittens and I put them in with her. They were suckling when we left, Itsme quite relaxed on her side.

The second friendly black cat is becoming very tame, we saw her at a distance as we were going down and called 'Metoo' wow, the tail went up and she ran towards us, said hello to Motley first, really rubbing her face on his. She is beginning to eat out of our hands, can pick her up about a foot high off the ground, won't be long before I can hold her the way I do Itsme.

The black and white one on the photo from the other day is also getting interested in hands. 😺 😺 😺 soon be 3 tame ones.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Todays Video*


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well it isn’t going to happen in our garden

No it’s not 

No meeting of itsme or metoo, 

No fields around us 

Nothing except frogs some birds and rats 

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Soon be moving in Jan


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

On no they won't, it's really lovely being able to cuddle Itsme and handling the kittens, that satisfied my 'broody' feeling :grin2:

No really does mean no.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*He tried to have another go at me today*

The cockerel that is.
I happened to be changing the water in the little buckets when he started, I shouted at him and threw the water in his face, he backed off and didn't try again :laugh:

The kittens are growing in leaps and bounds and so far they haven't managed to scale the side of the side of the box.
I didn't stay long today because it was threatening rain, just had a quick cuddle gave them the food changed the water and left.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Today the kittens are able to climb out of the box and Horst found one at the end of the garden this morning.
A hole has been cut in the side of the box to enable them to get back in (or out) but they prefer to climb out at the moment, funny little things. The door to their `room´ is now shut to confine them in case they wander too far. 
It really is amazing how Itsme allows Motley near the kittens, she makes no attempt to be spiteful and even rubs her face against his.

There was no sign of Metoo in the yard so on the way home I called her a few times and bounding out of the long grass like a spring bock came Metoo. She just loves to be stroked, but not picked up yet.

The cockerel was there, but kept his distance :grin2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Its getting *very* difficult, the kittens are now out of the little area and are exploring everything.
We were talking to Horst for some time today and Motley was with the kittens the whole time and Itsme is not at all bothered.
I had to call him a few times to let him know we were leaving, he was so engrossed with them. 
Unfortunately I didn't have the camera with me _again_. :frown2:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, the best camera is the one thats always with you Jan.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Yep, the best camera is the one thats always with you Jan.
> 
> Ray.


Yes I know, but I keep changing pockets Raymond. :frown2:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

This just walked along outside our garden today as the farmer has graded the field. ……. Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Is it a heron? Looks like a stork!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Is it a heron? Looks like a stork!


That is a stork Pat.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Our 'neighbours' at the Chateaux D'olondes 400m away have a nest thats occupied every year.. Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> This just walked along outside our garden today as the farmer has graded the field. ……. Ray.


Wow, aren't you so lucky to have him/her so close?!

I've not heard the expression 'graded the field' - does that mean turned it over?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm not sure of the correct definition Jean. But after ploughing and turning over the field into large troughs. Another couple of tractors come and sortof grind, level and rake so the field is really find and level ready for seeding. I assume the large clods are 'graded' down to much finer bits.
Now we wait for the maize to start sprouting next month.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Our maize has sprouted already Ray, right out the back, I do hope we don't have a plague of Daddy long legs again like we did a few years ago, they laid their eggs in our garden and the crows came to dig up the larva, our grass has not survived that invasion, then last years drought, it looks a real mess. Too big an area for us to re-do and a decent garden firm in this area is impossible to find.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Grass will always recover Jan. Maybe with more weeds but they all mow green.
We don't seem to get too many daddy long legs just a few. 
Our maize only got sewn yesterday. Normandy gets it's fair share of rain so shoots up to 2m. +.
My problem is the grass seeds blow onto my gravel so that eventually it looks like a lawn and I have to poison.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm gonna start a gardening thread Ray because Gardner's won't be looking at this and I might get some advice about what to do.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Concrete and plastic is the only way to go Jan.
I hate gardening as no sooner you have it perfect it comes back at you again.

Ray.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm with you on that one Ray - only not the plastic n concrete.

We moved to an apartment with maintained grounds. Perfect!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Grass seed mixed into sand or thrown on the ground and covered with sand then kept moist till it germinates Jan.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Grass seed mixed into sand or thrown on the ground and covered with sand then kept moist till it germinates Jan.


Do you know how big our grass area is Alan?
The grass we have is growing in rubbish not real earth.
It started to do well until the crows decided to dig it up one afternoon when we were out, then no rain all summer last year.
Parts of the garden have huge craters, some almost deep enough to make a pond. It's a big job.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If you're bothered about having something approaching a lawn select a small area near the house and make it nice. The rest, leave it a bit longer and let the wild life have it. Cut it long or get a farmer to run a topper over it a few times a year.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm tempted Alan but sometimes I escape for psychology reasons.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> If you're bothered about having something approaching a lawn select a small area near the house and make it nice. The rest, leave it a bit longer and let the wild life have it. Cut it long or get a farmer to run a topper over it a few times a year.


Akshirley, when we moved here Alan that was our intention, our little Motley number 1 was going to be the last dog we would have :smile2:
My intention was when we had completed the house we would go to see all the places we have seen on TV or read about, the Grand Canyon was top of my list. That idea lasted about 3 months, Motley died in the September, it was terrible without a dog (Manny cat had adopted us by this time) We only went to have a look at Shade in the January, just to look you understand :grin2: that was the end of all well made plans and we never regretted it. Motley still needs the whole garden.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

And has he told he's against long grass?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> And has he told he's against long grass?


Always afraid he'll get seeds in his sticking up ears Alan, it happened to one of our Shelties, not a nice experience for him or us.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You could always cut it before it starts to produce seeds, but Ray was right. Plastic and concrete. 

Just as a matter of interest, what did you hope a gardener would say?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

How to get rid of these weeds in the grass that won't die even though they've had 2 doses of selective and how to get the grass to grow again. I think you'd better come here and have a look Alan:grin2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The "grading" that farmers do after ploughing is called harrowing  

Jan you can harrow grass if your local farmer is friendly? It then makes it level (ish). If it is still a bit uneven you could spread top soil in the holes and harrow again. Grass will grow through.

Crows that visit our garden are chased off by our moorhens with help from Georgia. Perhaps make a pond out of one of the depressions so that you encourage some fierce moorhens?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Thank you, but none of that is possible. I have said before what we have is not top soil, it is ground up rubbish, it took weeks for us to clear the glass from the top, underneath is more glass so to disturb it would be fatel. Top soil cannot be found here, it's all mixed crap including concrete, Windows garden rubbish, just about anything. For the first few years we had a lot of mosquitoes. The weeds we have now look like huge spiders spreading across the ground and another that is really taking over has a tiny blue flower when it's left to grow.
The cobbled drive weeds have a tiny white flower which spreads like wildfire, we have already sprayed the drive 3 times this year with radical.😡,
If we hadn't had the crows and the draught the garden would have still been OK.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

What I didn't tell you is the reason there was no topsoil here to start with, this whole plot was a farmhouse, stables, cow sheds, farm yard.
The big boulders at the bottom and one side of the garden that make the border wall were all dug up from here plus many more that were taken away.
Yellow marks our patch, red line are the boulders (Feldstein) at the bottom, they also go along the right side and a few on the left.
This picture was obviously taken when we were away as only the car is on the drive, and the grass looks good from up there. :grin2:

We are in other words stone rich :laugh:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*The Kittens today*

The black one is there to compare size


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Do you know what sex they are Jan?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Do you know what sex they are Jan?


Perhaps you can tell me Pat, the grey one is the biggest :laugh:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You can, sometimes, tell by coat colour. Tortoiseshell cats (combinations of ginger with black, white, tabby all mixed together) are always female. Ginger females are rare but not impossible. With tabbies or blacks or black/white you will have to check their equipment  It's a long time since I've done it in cats, though I did have a job, once, where I had to breed rabbits (very onerous!) and then sex and divide the offspring. As rabbits hide their bits it was the more challenging part of the job 

Is the owner going to neuter her now?

https://www.peta.org/issues/animal-companion-issues/overpopulation/spay-neuter/


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I keep dropping hints Pat, she is still producing milk & feeding them, how long should one wait?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The milk should be dried up. If the kittens are weaned then sometimes it is best to separate them in order to get her done pronto. Sometimes they are already pregnant when the kittens are weaned! If she is in early pregnancy she can still be done (and sometimes not so early pregnancy).
The kittens can start to breed from about four months old.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I think they were born April 12th making them 6 weeks old, bit young to be taken from their Mum I think.
I'm really not sure what to do, I don't want to appear an interfering busy body, after all the cats have all lived happily prior to us getting to know them. 
When Hans comes home he will talk to Horst and see what he says, he may be very happy for someone to pay the bill even though I am sure he isn't hard up for a bob or two.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Perhaps a half and half separation? They spend daytime separate and are together at night? Cats mature more quickly than dogs.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Perhaps a half and half separation? They spend daytime separate and are together at night? Cats mature more quickly than dogs.


I think Itsme leaves them on their own quite a bit in the daytime. 
After we have seen the kittens we usually go on further for our walk, when we came back from that walk tonight Itsme was outside as if she was waiting for us, I gave her another cuddle and it really is so lovely because she will come with us to a certain point then stops and watches us walk away, after a while she turns and goes home.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Bless her 

We are feeding the horses, hens and three cats belonging to our neighbours at the moment. We haven't seen their kittens since they were tiny and they are now full grown. We fed them the first night and the very next morning a face appeared at our patio doors pleading to be fed breakfast! She must have tracked our scent right from their stables in their field, across the road and round the back of our house


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Dumb animals eh? They have more sense than some people.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Today I had a look 😁 the grey one is a girl the other a boy.

The grey one is very playful and encouraged Motley to play, Itsme got the wrong idea and if I hadn't intercepted she would have had a go at him so I think it's time to stop the daily visits now. We will see Itsme outside the gate, she will come when I call, without the kittens she still makes up to him.


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