# what exactly is "winterised" in reference to vans



## riverboat2001 (Apr 2, 2009)

Following on from my many posts about our next van.

I had thought the AutoTrail Mohican was worth a look.

But i have read one post that said it wasn't winterised.

Can you give me some advise as to what exactly this means?

Obviously i have my some idea of what it encompasses


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## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Some things it means is a double floor and water tanks are kept cosy betwwen them or lagged. Most water heaters nowadays have an auto release valve if the weather is likely to freeze the onboard water and drains the heater. My previous van, a Possl, (Don't ask), used to emtpy itself in apparent moments of boredom and should you get a van with a sense of humour, a clothes peg can keep this valve open.

DOwnside to this wicked ruse is that if it does freeze and the water cannot escape from said water heater, you will need a new waterheater. Peg should be alright though. 8)


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We use the peg system, and we have put a length of red string onto it, so it remains visible, so leaving less chance to for get to release the valve, we just pull on the string and the peg is completely removed, I almost forgot last winter, so hopefully we'll be OK this year, the other method is of course to have a small heater in the vicinity of the heater, which we bought off one of the guys on here earlier this summer so to be ready, a tiny ceramic one.

Kev.


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Pusser said:


> Some things it means is a double floor and water tanks are kept cosy betwwen them or lagged. Most water heaters nowadays have an auto release valve if the weather is likely to freeze the onboard water and drains the heater. My previous van, a Possl, (Don't ask), used to emtpy itself in apparent moments of boredom and should you get a van with a sense of humour, a clothes peg can keep this valve open.
> 
> DOwnside to this wicked ruse is that if it does freeze and the water cannot escape from said water heater, you will need a new waterheater. Peg should be alright though. 8)


Our Rapido does that, apparently it's set to release the water if the temperature drops to 8'C, ....wish there was a way to adjust that.
Gary


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

greygit said:


> Pusser said:
> 
> 
> > Some things it means is a double floor and water tanks are kept cosy betwwen them or lagged. Most water heaters nowadays have an auto release valve if the weather is likely to freeze the onboard water and drains the heater. My previous van, a Possl, (Don't ask), used to emtpy itself in apparent moments of boredom and should you get a van with a sense of humour, a clothes peg can keep this valve open.
> ...


Ours is a Truma set to 5c, maybe you can get a different tap as it seems to be an inline thing and not part of the big boxy bit.

Kev


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Winterised*

 Ciao, apart from the Truma dump valve trick, winterised means the motorhome has efficient and sufficient insulation and heating to keep an internal temperature of 20 C when outisde conditions are about -10 C.
The heating system should achieve the required internal temp. in no less than 45 mins. from cold.
Fresh/waste water tanks should be internally situated, insulated, and possibly even heated.
Many German and Italian motorhomes pass this test. Very few GB motorhomes do.
saluti,
eddied


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## tramp (May 25, 2005)

hi ,
I agree totally with eddied , basically if you are going to a cold country get "German" .

our Dethleffs has the same system as Euromobile  the vario ventilation system for the cuboards so the warm air circulates and you dont get damp/cold spots like you do in the British built vans.

But in all fairness to the uk designed vans they are for the typical uk customer who goes on cl/cs and club sites in winter/AUTUMN so doesnt need the excellent insulation and build quality.

our van is tested to -25 :lol: so should cope anywhere

tramp


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Slightly off topic.....

Surely all water heaters are in the body of the van ? When you are using the van in the sort of weather that might cause problems then they are kept well above 5 deg C because you are keeping yourself at that temperature. (We have had 3 UK built vans and have never had condensation in lockers or the van itself and we do use it all winter in UK and Europe)

I don't know if we have or have ever had a dump valve but we have not ever felt the need to investigate and have never had water dumped from the heater.

When you are not using the van in winter then you drain the water heater so that there is no danger of freezing.

G


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

None of this helps much when the van is in use if the water freezes in the pipe leading to the grey waste dump valve - which is the most likely place for it to freeze first since the volume of water (and therefore its thermal capacity) is very low at that point.

Someone who has a fully and effectively winterised van will have to pick this one up, since I don't know if the pipes are protected all the way to the outlets. :?

Also it must be understood that insulation does not *prevent *the system from freezing. It can slow down the process very effectively, bit if it stays cold enough for long enough, it will freeze. 8O 

Conversely it slows down the thawing out process by the same degree, so it can take absolutely ages to thaw out if the system has frozen up - even on very warm days. (_I use the plural deliberately - a fully insulated and frozen system would be unlikely to thaw out in one day_.) 8O

For 99% of the time in this country - don't worry about it. Leave a bucket under the grey waste outlet with the tap open and you will be OK. 

The fresh water tank is unlikely to freeze, especially if you keep it topped up, and use hot water (_if you can get it_) for the topping up. The fresh water pipes will be inboard on almost any van, so they should not freeze either. 

Hope this helps

Dave


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Sorry for 'hi-jacking' this thread but I am a little lost !

" Dump-Valve" ........... " Grey-Tank" Ok, Waste tank, eh ......... ????????

We intend to pop away in the UK during some weekends this coming winter and all the above has worried me a wee bit re the water heater etc!

Any folk give a newcomers easy, blonde-moment, thicky, type explanation what all the above is about, what we should be looking for ( dump valve especially ) and ways to do it ??

Thank you


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## apxc15 (Dec 1, 2007)

Gixer-Mark said:


> Sorry for 'hi-jacking' this thread but I am a little lost !
> 
> " Dump-Valve" ........... " Grey-Tank" Ok, Waste tank, eh ......... ????????
> 
> ...


The dump valve is a small black box like unit with a red lift button on the top. It is usually on the floor close to the heater unit with instructions "Lift to Close" printed on the side.
The gray tank is the waste water tank slung under the vehicle and many have a heater fitted which you can control manually from the control panel.
If you are living in and keeping the interior of the van warm then you will have no problems, but if you leave it for long periods with no heating on then the dump valve will protect your heater, unless you lock it up with a clothes peg and forget to remove it.

I have lost my water on cross channel ferries in the winter a few times and wonder what the deck crew think when 40 odd liters of water start sloshing around the car deck. Probably used to it. Better that though than a damaged heater.

Pete 8)


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi.
We have an Auto Trail Mohican and have never had any problem's in winter if we are not using it and have it parked up, as long as we empty the water heater with the plug on the outside of the vent which I leave undone until I next fill the fresh water system, empty the water flush in the bog, and empty any waste or fresh water tanks,.
As far as using it we are away every Jan / Apr abroad and have never had a problem, even last year going over and one nights stop in Andora in daft degrees.
The snow and ice which built up from the start going down to the tunnel, through France, and over the Pirranees built up to such an extent to make the front of the van looked like an ice lolly a good 3 inch thick, only falling off when we got to Barcelona latitudes.
The water never froze anywhere on the van even on the waste side of things, our noses sticking out of the sleeping bags, we'll !!!... 8O


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## tramp (May 25, 2005)

ref freezing water waste pipes and insulation.

our van has a dedicated winter pack consisting of upgraded van insulationa and extra blown air vents throughout van. Also has insulated exterior waste tank and all external pipes, all of which have a dedicated heater system to keep the water flowing in sub zero temps.

It comes on automatically below 4oc and regulates the watts depending on the temp outside . never failed even down to -15.

Its one of the reasons we bought "german" as the brit vans cant match this :lol: 

if the water heater.tank /boiler is heted this should prevent the water dump valve opening, unless you are a tight git who doesnt use hot water.

tramp

tramp


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

tramp said:


> ref freezing water waste pipes and insulation.
> 
> our van has a dedicated winter pack consisting of upgraded van insulationa and extra blown air vents throughout van. Also has insulated exterior waste tank and all external pipes, all of which have a dedicated heater system to keep the water flowing in sub zero temps.
> 
> ...





> Way to go Tramp! Agree with all you say.
> 
> Sal (your neighbour at P'boro show).


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## riverboat2001 (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks everyone for help explaining this.

I think we would like to "get away" in the next van for a few days at a time year round in the UK. And perhaps abroad (France/Spain/Italy) but not in really cold weather.

So would that mean that i would need a winterised van then?

I like the get up and go-ability of the van on the drive, so i wouldn't want to lose this just because the weather is poor.

I'm hoping my next van will be the "one" so want to get it right first time!


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## babyrhino (Oct 19, 2006)

The first time our water heater decided to do the automatic dump thing we were in the South of France in June 2007 and it was very warm! We were totally bewildered when someone on the aire came over and was obviously upset as they thought we were dumping grey water - not as upset as I was because I thought something had sprung a serious leak!

Anyway, a friendly Dutch man ambled over and told us all what it was and donated an elastic band to hold it in the correct position (although I never actually used it).

After this, it behaved OK until we were outside Rome in September when it did the same thing again - on the Happy Camping campsite. This time some German neighbours had obviously reported us to the site management instead of just pointing out that we had a problem (thanks folks). My Italian is virtually non-existent but it was clear that the staff were telling us that dumping grey waste on the pitch was not acceptable (no, really!). I decided to demonstrate that the water was not coming from the grey water tank by taking them to the valve and opening it slightly - meaning to demonstrate that this was not the source of the leakage. Of course, there was an immediate "pong" and this confirmed their suspicions which they demonstrated by holding their noses. We were not popular!

Sorry about going slightly off topic but it just goes to show that even the winter protections can go wrong - it has never done it since by the way, not even when it has been cold.

Brian


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## robflyer (Nov 17, 2006)

*winterising etc.*

In my old Kontiki I had a Carver water heater and the tank 'blew' twice and I had to replace wretched thing. This was while on skiing trips and I had the interior of the van heated the whole time! The problem with the Carver is that the flu is direct to the outside of the van and the cold penetrates right into the tank.
Since then I have only had vans with Truma water heaters and have never had a problem as the water dumps when it gets down to 5 deg.
I have never had the valve open except when it got very cold so hopefully it will say that way.

Regards

Robflyer


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## Wupert (Aug 6, 2007)

*Re: winterising etc.*

Check out

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/features/winter-warmer.html

Wups


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## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

Regarding the comments relating to the automatic 'dump valve' on the Truma heater unit are concerned, this is not the case with my 08 Autotrail Cheyenne 840D. The Autotrail spec for this model (I can't speak of other or earlier/later models) relies upon a manual dump valve. I wouldn't want other Autotrail owners ending up contorted under the island bed for hours trying to feel for the auto dump valve around the Truma unit, as I did.


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Just for clarity regarding the original posting. 

A fully winterised van is known as Grade 3. To attain this grade a motorhome must have such heating/insulation as to be able to maintain a temperature of 20C inside, with all services working, whilst the outside temperature is -15C. Invariably these vans will have no outside pipework at all, other than an overflow pipe, the waste dump valve and pipe being accessed from within a heated locker.

I would imagine that unless you are going to use a van in freezing temperatures then grade 3 isn't really necessary. However, if you are going to be tracking across France in the winter to reach Spain, or going skiing, then it would obviously be useful. 

If you think back there were plenty of pleas for help last winter on the forums from people who had frozen up solid, and that was from within the UK.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

Our Autotrail water tank froze up last Feb at the NEC. We have now gone "German" which has double floors with tanks between and Aldi heating.

C.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't know about all the German models or newer higher end Hymers, but ours a year 2000 model only has a single floor. However, it is pretty much winterized. The only exception being the unheated gray water tank. The problem with that we've had is that the valve when closed has frozen so that we could not empty the tank. Pouring some anti freeze down the drain seems to help prevent that problem. 

Our heater and water heater are a combined unit so if we just leave the water heater portion on low when we are out skiing it's enough to keep the valve closed. I'm afraid to clothes pin it, except when I've turned off the 12v system for some reason as then it will open.

Winter parking is the big pain for us, after each trip we have to drain out all the water. The manual tells us to blow the water out of the drain pipes, but instead I put a bit of anti freeze down each drain. Before doing that one time I had the bath room pipes freeze up, luckily they thawed out after a couple of hours of heating.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

A winterized MH: 

A ducted heating system that distributes heat throughout, preferably combined with the hot water heating, with thermostat 
Fresh water tank inside the van or heated double floor area. 
Heated and insulated gray water tank, optional 
All water pipes inside heated area. 
Well insulated walls, roof and floor 
Double glazed windows with draw down shades and curtains 
Two gas tanks with automatic switch over valve or T connection to make switching easy. 

Extras 

Cover for the outside of the engine and windshield 
Insulated covers for cab windows 
Snow tires 
Chains 
Anti slip device for parking on ice or leave the chains on 
Battery jumper cables 
Shovel 
Bottle of anti freeze 
Plastic tarp to kneel on when putting on the chains 
Gloves 
Tank to drain gray water into if you have to leave the valve open 
Extra insulating covers for inside the windows, (I made some out of styrofoam for our bed area) 

Making this list for myself too, any other suggestions?


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

If the Truma heating is left switched on, even with the thermostat turned right down, then the dump valve should not open.


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