# I'm all for kids being well educated



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

*But is this a good idea,* don't kids get enough pressure to do well at any level without putting them in the spotlight too?


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It probably fits the ethos of a Ministry that believes *AND HAS SAID* that "*ALL SCHOOLS SHOULD BE ABOVE AVERAGE*".

I wonder who taught them sums........

Presumably the Department of Transport is now going to insist that "*ALL HILLS GO DOWN, ONLY*"

There are times when our supposedly highly qualified and educated Government Ministers could well rival US Vice-Presidents Joe Biden and Dan Quayle for their successful demolition of their own careers.....

Dave


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> It probably fits the ethos of a Ministry that believes *AND HAS SAID* that "*ALL SCHOOLS SHOULD BE ABOVE AVERAGE*".
> 
> I wonder who taught them sums........
> 
> ...


Shows someone needs an education then, all schools can't and never could be above average can they, some can but not all.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Correct Kev, by definition and average implies the middle achieving of a group of individuals, some will be average, some above it and some below.....

Thus the average of the numbers 1, 2 3, 4 5 is found by adding them all up = 15, then dividing by how many of them there are (in this case 5 values) so 15 divided by 5 = 3 - that is the average, or arithmetic mean for those values....

The Government wants to rewrite it so that instead of the numbers 1,2,3,4,5 for schools giving an average, the same schools will all have a value above 3, but of course if they are ALL above 3 say;

3.4.5.5.4

the average would be 22 divided by 5 which equals 4.2 - so three of those values are still BELOW average.......

and only two above average, whereas c/w the previous figures they would ALL be above the previously obtained average.

Sadly, the scales on which schools are assessed is not a scientifically measurable quantity and includes such things as parent comments, student satisfaction and so on...... for which no scale can be justified......

Coupled with other failings in the grading system, whereby students who achieve say 1- grade A* results a year early cannot be included and the following year count against the school as they have not gained ANY GCSE's that year......

No, I am not making it up...... it is the methods of the madhouse being used to assess our country's future and then based on half-baked (or totally unbaked) ideas, radical changes are introduced every couple of years so no-one knows what effect will be found in say 10 years time.......

Dave


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Correct Kev, by definition and average implies the middle achieving of a group of individuals, some will be average, some above it and some below.....
> 
> Thus the average of the numbers 1, 2 3, 4 5 is found by adding them all up = 15, then dividing by how many of them there are (in this case 5 values) so 15 divided by 5 = 3 - that is the average, or arithmetic mean for those values....
> 
> ...


STOP IT, you're hurting my head man :serious::crying:


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kids should not be encouraged to be Swats if you ask me.

Whats wrong with making catapults, go carts, chasing girls and drinking cider?

Thats all I did and look at me, I turned out alright!


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

barryd said:


> Kids should not be encouraged to be Swats if you ask me.
> 
> Whats wrong with making catapults, go carts, chasing girls and drinking cider?
> 
> Thats all I did and look at me, I turned out alright!


Absotively, but it's putting them on parade, attracting the attention of the school bullies and god knows who, I find it most distasteful.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> Absotively, but it's putting them on parade, attracting the attention of the school bullies and god knows who, I find it most distasteful.


Well I have no idea what its like now as I have no children but certainly when I was at school kids could be really evil if you stood out for any reason. I suspect not much has changed but perhaps the prevention of this kind of thing has I dunno.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

What you have said lalala is fundamentally correct, there are two routes through the bAC and you do not have to be a genius to work out how to get through even if you are weak.

Once at University (normally the nearest) access to courses is controlled by the Uni depending on which route you took and what you achieved but yes there are very many more fist years than second and so on so going through the whole system does eventually produce the best quality students (at times), but after that the State tells you where to go to work, no choice and depending on where there are vacancies.

For teachers you may have been teaching for 20+ years before you can express any wish about where to work, normally for the first 10 years teachers are in inner cities and then gradually may move out - note the word MAY as it depends on vacancies being available. 

Doctors are very much told where to go and all receive about the same pay as a teacher in the UK - even the "specialists" at hospitals, so there are many more Doctors than ion the UK. Our GP wants to retire but IS NOT ALLOWED TO until a suitable replacement can be found - and so far that has not proved possible for 5 years..... presumably death is the best way to leave a job.... (although they'd probably still insist on forms in umpteen copies.......)

IMO the UK system is and has always been better than most at producing well rounded, well educated individuals, it only went wrong when Governments decided they knew better.......

Dave


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

"Above average" is the new average

So now we just need all schools to be above "Above average"

Simple

Sandra


----------



## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Average is a colloquial term as well as a mathematical calculation so of course schools can be above average. And some students thrive on competition, especially in a team. They'll certainly need to learn how to win as a team if they are going to get on in life.

There is something in the point that schooling is not just about academic qualifications. However, many children know this and seek to broaden their skills and experiences. Good schools provide the opportunities. Those that do, get on. 

What may be missing is the conversation parents should be having with their children on the reality of modern life and the importance of intuition to stay one step ahead. It's more important than sex education. Children need to understand the rules of the game if they want to get on. No good the teachers having this conversation because they inhabit the academic world, not the commercial world.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Unfortunately it is very much about academic achievement 

Dispite the rhetoric 

Very much "beans means Heinz"

Teachers may well know the benifit of a well rounded adult, but have no time to develope that
Stats info, stats info

And industry complains, preens itself, protests they want well rounded individuals

Then hire the high flyers A stars and above
But no

They choose between the high flyers
What sort of voluntary work have the done?.

What have they done to round themselves off??

Other than study hours to get the A stars

A normal well rounded kid?
Shame they didn't get 4 a levels at A and above
Now that would really have rounded them off wouldn't it??

I have Gkids with 4 A levels, A and A stars

I have grandkids who will never achieve that but have excellent other qualities

And I feel really p ****d of with the ever changing goals
So if industry wants something different

Then employ the kids that are different

There is plenty to go round

Aldra


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Ps

It may well not be more important than sex education Brock 
For kids or their mums

There is no more important

All things have equal importance at a moment in time

And for a child

About 19 yrs

Or maybe the rest of their life

Aldra


----------



## lalala (Aug 13, 2009)

thanks Penquin, very informative. My post seems to have been lost somewhere, I did delete it in order to reword some of it but somehow I mustn't have posted the second one. We have a friend who is at Uni in France, has failed the first year but intends to resit. Same huge odds against getting through. It does seem very strange that the school leavers aren't even interviewed to see if they have the personality, aptitude, etc for the job. Advice seems minimal if any from both schools and universities. 
I'm not saying that the UK is perfect, far from it but at least most schools give careers advice. 
Lala


----------



## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Aldra, I think our experience of recruitment is different. 

Academic attainment opens the door. It is the well rounded person that walks through and gets the job. Has always been so as far as I know.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Exactly

Academic attainment opens the doors

There are a lot of academic achievers that are rubbish

And a lot of non academic achievemers who are gems

But won't get a chance

And maybe it's always been thus

So have bankers

And where did that lead us?

Aldra

Don't get me wrong, so far me and mine are high academic achievers

And are doing Ok

But maybe I just see the bigger picture
And realise so many brilliant people were not

Aldra


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I was crap at school, really crap, only subject I had any time for was English, my spelling is pretty good, grammar not  I played truant for most of my school life, too much going on elsewhere, I'd go in do register and scarper, maybe popping back in now and then so I wasn't missed too much, only got caught once, but they expelled me, hey ho, no scholl  , regrets, yes, but it seems I actually had and still do have learning difficulties, I struggle to concentrate, my mind leaps ahead, the English teacher was ex Jap POW, and a fascinating man, he was to only one who made the lessons interesting enough for me to regularly attend class, Head was a good teacher, he did Science when the science teacher was off, now he was another interesting teacher, I learned sod all, but enjoyed the lessons.

I'd probably be described as having some acronym or other these days and have special tuition, but it wouldn't have stopped me being bored, to educate a child, you have to interest them, my mother was the one who taught me to read and write, I even went to prep school, unusual for a poor family back then, but my day was wizz with maths and they wanted me to be good, sadly, I was just average, maybe not even that really, but I'm 65, always interested in new things, but struggle remembering how to do them, but that isn't new symptom, even as a kid, going to the shops for two items required a note, mercurial my mum called me  I do RTFM, many times, but some things just will not go in, like electrickery, I can just about grasp some of the basics, but mostly I try to look it up, if not I ask a question somewhere.


----------



## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I must be really well-educated.

When it comes to "average" I know all about mean, median and mode - not to mention standard deviation!

Actually all that tells me is that I must be average, trouble is I don't know which bits are or aren't!

I have an identical twin.

He became a GP.

I ran off to sea.

At the end of the day we are still identical.

Why?

Because we both raised families; fed, clothed and housed them.

Then pushed them all out of the nests into the big wide world to successfully do the same.

That is what life is all about really.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

maybe

We pushed 6 out

All doing well but not too far from the nest

So now we have 10 more

Who mill around, delight us,

I think they will be in the nest longer

We are not pushing
Aldra


----------

