# Chemical toilet emptying



## Oil-on-the-Road

Thanks to staying on a friends drive for a couple of nights on the way home from our recent trip I arrived home with a half-full toilet cassette & am now not sure what to do about emptying it. Campsites seem quite strict about only emptying into the chemical toilet disposal point - does this mean that it would be illegal to empty it down our own outside loo? 

Alternatively, I could just leave it until our next trip in three weeks time - would the "blue bag" keep it from doing anything nasty for that long? 

I know that I could just empty it this once and no-one would know - but as someone who has been known to take a hard line on environmental issues that sort of hypocrisy doesn't appeal! 

I do remember a thread a while ago where people were suggesting using some bio washing liquid instead of the blue chemical - and felt that made it OK to empty down the toilet - I'd welcome advice on that too for future reference. 

Cheers 

Steve


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## joedenise

I tip it down the loo, probably shouldn't!

Joe


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## JeanLuc

As long as your outside toilet does not empty into a septic tank, you should be OK to use that. When we get home from a trip, I simply lift the manhole cover over our drain and dump both grey water and toilet into that. But then I have a SOG on the Thetford and don't use any chemicals; even before fitting it, I only used Thetford Green rather than Blue. This gave me a bit more licence when wild camping and needing to use public loos to dump in.

Philip


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## Telbell

I tip our "remnants" down the loo atb home- I don't use chemicals though- just Fabric Conditioner.

Having said that- I used to tip the remnants down the loo when I did use thetford chemicals :roll:


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## Grizzly

Where do you suppose the chemical toilet emptying point drains into at a campsite ? They don't have some completely separate-from-the-main-drains connection !

Yes of course it is OK to tip it into your own loo. It's OK to tip it into a public loo but MHers are a little sensitive in case they make a mess while doing it or get nasty looks from members of the public. It's also not easy even for the most responsible user to rinse out and refill in a public loo as there are no taps suitable. This is why campsites are- rightly- strict about it.

Formaldehyde based toilet fluids are hardly ever used these days and you were asked not to put those into septic tanks or cesspits as - being formaldehye- they acted as a preservative and inhibit the vital action of bacteria in the tank.

It is not a good idea to leave your waste too long in the tank as it does start to pong a bit despite the fluid designed to break down the waste.

G


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## rayhook

*Chemical toilet chemical*

Steve,

The difference between Thetford Blue and Green is that the Green is 'eco-friendly' and can be emptied down a _sewerage _manhole. (Not down a surface water one!) The blue is something more of a problem and I'm not sure where you could get rid of that but I'll guess where a lot of it does go......

I think that's correct - anyone else care to comment?

Ray


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## rayhook

*Beaten to the post*

Grizzly,

Looks like you've pipped me to the post - I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the blue. So just what is the difference?

Ray


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## Invicta

I have started using Bio washing powder in the dog's loo instead of chemicals. What is my dog's loo you may ask-well it is a bucket with a lid that fits into a wheeled trolley cart. (This task has become necessary since Coco is no longer able to go out for long walks in the country due to his arthritic hips).

It is someone's job (guess who!) to wheel the dog's loo over the lawn to collect up the you know what. Once a week the cover on the main sewage drain from the house is lifted and the contents of the bucket tipped in. There is hardly any unpleasant smell, not like there was from the chemical stuff that was being using prior to the Bio washing powder. I use Morrisons cheapest, £1 for a large packet. This will be used now in the R/V when we venture out for the first trip of the season next week.

Might even patent my mobile dog's loo-what do members feel?!?!


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## JeanLuc

*Re: Chemical toilet chemical*



rayhook said:


> The difference between Thetford Blue and Green is that the Green is 'eco-friendly' and can be emptied down a _sewerage _manhole. (Not down a surface water one!)
> Ray


Quite right to point out that distinction Ray. I was referring to the sewerage drain in my earlier post. In fact, there is no manhole to our rainwater drainage system - it simply goes to a soak-away.

Philip


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## Grizzly

*Re: Beaten to the post*



rayhook said:


> Grizzly,
> I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the blue. So just what is the difference?
> Ray


I suspect it is in the additives or the concentration. One lasts longer in use than the other so might be more concentrated or have more additives than the other. I suspect the additives are no more than lubricants for seals or fancy masking smells or soap to clean or- possibly- enzymes to break down waste.

Both are formaldehyde- free. If you think back to your school days and all those browning bottles in the biology lab. you will recall that formaldehye preserves organic material and so stops bacteria acting on it and making nasty smells. Not a good thing in either the public sewage system or a septic tank , both of which rely heavily on the bacteria and other micro-organisms present to break down waste matter.

G


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## teemyob

*Fabric*



Telbell said:


> I tip our "remnants" down the loo atb home- I don't use chemicals though- just Fabric Conditioner.
> 
> Having said that- I used to tip the remnants down the loo when I did use thetford chemicals :roll:


What you trying to do, Soften it?

TM


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## rayhook

*Is Blue OK?*

Grizzly,

I've been having a quick look at the two. Apart from being described as pleasant smelling etc. there are few words about the benefits of Blue.

Green on the other hand:

"Aqua Kem Green is a non-toxic formaldehyde-free toilet fluid which is also concentrated and highly effective. It does not irritate eyes or skin and is environmentally friendly.

• Biological fluid for toilet waste holding tank
• Prevention of gas build-up
• Odour control
• Awarded several ecological quality hallmarks
• Discharge allowed in campsite septic tanks
• Effective up to 4 days

Aqua Kem Green stimulates biological activity in the waste holding tank: micro-organisms biologically break down the toilet waste. With average use, Aqua Kem Green acts for a maximum of three to four days. It remains fluid down to a temperature of -20ºC and is still effective after thawing. This product is particularly suitable when emptying the waste holding tank into septic tanks on camp sites."

I'll try to find out more about Blue and do another a post - anyone else got anything on Blue?

Ray


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## Brock

Sometimes I empty the cassette down the toilet but there is a risk of splashing which isn't very pleasant in the down stairs toilet in the house. Mostly, I don't feel that idle. Then I lift the manhole and pour into the drain that the the house toilets use. I use a SOG.


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## 96706

We gave up using 'chemicals' in our loo sometime ago. 
Now we use bio washing liquid in the loo & milton sterlising liquid 
(both from Tesco) in the flush tank. 
As well as being very cheap and a more pleasant bouquet, we can dump the waste down our own toilet when we get home without any problems at all.  

I have to say that we did sometimes empty the old chemical waste down the loo, but the house is still standing & the neighbours haven't fallen out with us either, so maybe a little and seldom, is not a problem anyway. :lol:


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## erneboy

We have a Sog so never use chemicals. With practice it can be emptied into any toilet with no splashing, although you will want good ventilation, it doesn't half pong. Not a job for a morning after, Alan.


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## Oil-on-the-Road

Thanks for all this good advice - We are fortunate in that our outside toilet at home survived modernisation. Since we spend most of our time outside in Summer it's very useful as well as preventing "conflicts of interest"  

I shall empty the Thetford cassette down that - and when our supply of blue bags is used up, switch to One Chem - or maybe washing liquid. 

Sog looks interesting too - though have to say we haven't noticed any problem with smells anyway. Mind you - so far a campsite toilet has always been available for what the adverts use various euphemisms for - I shall call it POO  

Thanks again 

Steve 

PS - to take up one point - I assumed that the chemical toilet emptying points went to a tank that the campsite operators had to get emptied - I must ask next time out .

S.


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## erneboy

Steve, in the UK I reckon they would need to say it went into a tank to be safe, regardless of the truth, Alan.


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## Grizzly

Oil-on-the-Road said:


> PS - to take up one point - I assumed that the chemical toilet emptying points went to a tank that the campsite operators had to get emptied - I must ask next time out .
> 
> S.


The answer will depend on where your campsite is situated. The majority of large urban or suburban ones will be on mains drainage and the toilet waste will go into the foul sewer, irrespective of whether it was flushed down a shower block toilet or into the chemical toilet waste disposal pan.

If the site is a CL/CS in the depths of the country they may well have a septic tank...into which the shower block toilet waste and the chemical toilet waste will go, though by different routes.

Every so often this will have to be emptied depending on size and the use it gets. It's possible they might have a cess pit or a reed bed or similar and this does its own thing and the cleaned effluent then drains into the environment.

G


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## GerryD

All of the toilet fluids on sale legally in the UK are formaldehyde free and bio degradable. They have to be to conform with the standards. All campsites unless they have a septic tank drain into the main foul water drainage, just like your loo at home.
We too have a SOG, gone back to chemicals as we could no longer stand the smell.
Gerry


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## badger

Now I'm not an expert on this subject, I leave that to Pusser (where is he when you need him) But all toilet waste goes down the sewers (exept as said before if there is a cess pit of some sort) and whether you tip down sewer manholes, home toilets, etc it all goes the same way. In the case of site cess pits etc, one would think there would be a notice banning the use of "non green" fluids if they were considered harmfull in any way. I think the matter of green or blue is down to an individuals choice. Me.....I don't give a sh......er damn, I'll go the cheapest rout.

Incidentaly my mate has a sog and still uses chemicals :roll:


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## rayhook

*Formaldehyde*

All,

This is a quote about Aqua Kem Blue:

"AquaKem blue fluid is a formaldehyde based product whch is proven to be the most effective liquid chemical for re-circulating and fresh water toilets."

Not all are formaldehyde-free it would seem............

Ray


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## Seeker

We switched to exclusively green for our trip through Russia last year as we knew we would generally be burying the stuff in woods (there are virtually no campsites in Russia). 

The main difference between green and blue, apart from the environmental issue, is that you need bigger doses of green to achieve the same effect as blue.


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## Grizzly

*Re: Formaldehyde*



rayhook said:


> This is a quote about Aqua Kem Blue
> Ray


What date Ray ? Thetford took all the formaldehyde out of it's products about 1995.

The French made Elsan fluid had formaldehyde until recently but i understand even that does not.

G


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## trevd01

SOG + Bio Magic, and empty down the loo when we need to empty at home.

SOG without Biomagic was too smelly when emptying! 8O


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## strod

If I arrive home with a load in the Thetford, it goes down the sewer via a manhole cover - the same route the toilet waste from the house takes....

I don't trust myself not to make a mess if I try it in the house :lol:


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## Pudsey_Bear

As there is nothing in it which you wouldn't normally put down your home loo except a chemical to make it smell less, I'd empty it down the loo and not give it another thought.

We're lucky in that there is a person hole outside the house in our garden, so I empty it down there, it's the same line our toilet is on as I checked first.

Kev.


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## rayhook

*Today!*

Grizzly,

Got that info off a web site today - I'm now awaiting a reply to an email to Thetford to see what they say the difference between blue and green actually is.

I'll let you know.

Ray


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## vardy

Sorry to put a spanner in to make it more complicated - but what happens when you introduce the (recommended by Thetford) propylene antifreeze for winter use?


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## gaspode

I have a container of Elsan blue fluid which I purchased in January this year which quite clearly states on the label "Contains formaldehyde and methanol"

AFAIK, all the traditional "blue" additives still contain formaldehyde, otherwise why would all the "green" products boast that they're "Formaldehyde Free"?


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## PeterandLinda

Hi

The advantages of a SOG are:

 It does not smell inside the van because the smells are extracted when the blade is open.

 Because there are no expensive chemicals in the tank, it can be emptied every day.

 Once emptied, the tank is left empty.

 You look cool in Germany and Scandinavia.

There is a disadvantage:

:evil: The cost.

P&L


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## trevd01

PeterandLinda said:


> Hi
> 
> You look cool in Germany and Scandinavia.
> 
> P&L


 :?: :?: :?:

How or why is that?


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## Mike48

I empty mine down the sewage drain but like others I use Bio dishwashing liquid. 

What do people use in the flushing tank?


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## rayhook

*Dosage*



Seeker said:


> The main difference between green and blue, apart from the environmental issue, is that you need bigger doses of green to achieve the same effect as blue.


Seeker,

Not so, both use 75ml per 10 litres of waste.

Thetford

Ray


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## oldenstar

I'm afraid that I too am a SOG user who also uses a chemical additive, this latterly being the one which comes with a measure supposedly giving me 40 uses per bottle.

After changing vans I did try to manage without the SOG but both her indoors and me noticed the chemical smell in the van, which we found unpleasant.

Therefore back I went yet again to the SOG man, who happens to be local, for my third SOG fitting.

He says most of his business is now with people who have changed vans and can't do without the SOG.

And yes, any residue goes carefully down the loo on returning home.

Paul


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## pippin

S0G *and* Bio for us now.

If the washing machine water with Bio can go down the foul drain then so can the cassette contents.

The Bio breaks down the foetid mess much better than blue or green and in fact makes for a much better olfactory experience when emptying - be that down the home manhole, the home bog or a campsite/aire disposal point.


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## Grizzly

gaspode said:


> I have a container of Elsan blue fluid which I purchased in January this year which quite clearly states on the label "Contains formaldehyde and methanol"
> 
> AFAIK, all the traditional "blue" additives still contain formaldehyde, otherwise why would all the "green" products boast that they're "Formaldehyde Free"?


Elsan fluid is made in France; it is not and does not make a claim to be, formaldehyde free. It always has contained formaldehyde.

AquaKem does make this formaldehyde -free claim - both colours.

SEE HERE:

Ray; what was the date of the website- ie when was it published not when did you read it ?

G


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## rayhook

*AquaKem*

Grizzly,

Thanks for the link on your last post - lays it to rest for me (anyway, I'm an Aqua Kem Green user).

The answer to your question is here:

http://www.bradtech.ltd.uk/aquakem.asp

I guess they've either plain got it wrong or haven't updated their site recently. I'm still waiting for a reply from Thetford but it's looking unnecessary - all looks clear enough now to me.

Ray


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## Grizzly

*Re: AquaKem*



rayhook said:


> http://www.bradtech.ltd.uk/aquakem.asp
> I guess they've either plain got it wrong or haven't updated their site recently.
> Ray


The site is 1999 so not bang up to date...

I'd be very interested in AquaKem's reply.

G

Edit: I got the date of removal of formaldehyde wrong; it was 2003 not 2005 that Thetford removed formadehyde from their products :

See this answer to a previous poster on MHF

_To my knowledge, aqua kem blue is also formaldehyde free. I got this reply from thetford, when I asked if aqua kem blue is formaldehyde free.

> All the best wishes for 2006. Sorry for the late reply on mail of december 15. We can confirm that we don't sell any formaldehyde based products since april 2003.
>
> Kindest regards,
> THETFORD B.V.
> Frans van der Pluijm
> Senior Chemist _

This is the link to the original 2006 MHF post:

HERE


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## dhutchy

hi we got some blue bio from manchester show says its 100% eco friendly and waste is treated as sewage so can go down drains. can be used in waste tank as well had a brilliant write up by somebody connected with motorhome magazines (cant remember who now). not used it yet waiting for delivery of motorhome but from bottle smells better than we used when hiring van.website is at www.wessexchemicalfactors.co.uk regards dave


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## rayhook

*Thetford AquaKem*

Having had no response to my email to Thetford thought I'd phone 'em.........

1. Neither Blue nor Green contains formaldehyde;

2. Blue should not be used where the cassette is emptied into a septic tank. Obviously particularly applicable to a lot of CL/CS sites and (Thetford say) sites in Europe;

3. Green is more 'eco-friendly' - whatever that means but, given 2. above, I suspect the Blue has some pretty nasty chemicals in it.

That's it, I've done my bit and I'm away now until...............

Ray


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## rayhook

*The official line from Thetford*

I now have a reply from Thetford:

"Thank you for your recent email, The Blue and the Green serve the same purpose which is to help break down waste within the waste tank, neither fluid contains formaldehyde although the blue used to. The Blue users as cocktail of chemicals to break down the waste where as the Green uses biological factors in order to break down the waste which makes it more widely acceptable on sites throughout Europe, you can safely empty the Aqua Kem Green into septic tanks."

I draw several conclusions from this, including:

1. "a cocktail of chemicals" probably means highly polluting even though formaldehyde has been laid to rest;

2. Thetford staff are not too hot on English.

We already use Green anyway and will continue to do so.

Ray

PS Clear blue sky here in Fortuna today...........


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

All this huffing and puffing about emptying a cassette down the bog that contains a minuscule amount of chemicals in.

Nobody would think twice about pouring copious amounts of Domestos and other aggressive chemicals down the bog into the drains, just think of the cocktail of chemicals that goes through the sewage works in a day thousands of gallons of the stuff.

Folk get their underwear in a twist over all sorts of daft things.. :roll:


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## rayhook

*Missed the point*

Ray,

I think you've missed the point. Sewers you may have on the _mainstream _campsite in the UK. On CL/CS typre sites in the UK disposal is often into septic tanks.

I'm in Spain at the moment - in both France and Spain septic tanks are very common. So NO BLUE!

Ray


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## rayrecrok

*Re: Missed the point*



rayhook said:


> Ray,
> 
> I think you've missed the point. Sewers you may have on the _mainstream _campsite in the UK. On CL/CS typre sites in the UK disposal is often into septic tanks.
> 
> I'm in Spain at the moment - in both France and Spain septic tanks are very common. So NO BLUE!
> 
> Ray


Hi.
I am answering the OP, he lives in Leeds!.


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## rayhook

*Ooops*

Ray,

Apologies, I didn't realise that CS/CL sites didn't extend that far North and that nobody else on MHF would be interested..........

Ray


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## Oil-on-the-Road

*Re: Ooops*



rayhook said:


> Ray,
> 
> Apologies, I didn't realise that CS/CL sites didn't extend that far North and that nobody else on MHF would be interested..........
> 
> Ray


Not at all - thanks Ray H - unlilke some I don't regard the fact that industry pollutes as some sort of carte blanche for me to tip anything I like down the drain - I still have twinges of guilt about the sump oil I surreptitiously tipped down the street grate forty-odd years ago when I was a much younger and less aware man 

But before this goes straight to the Subscribers Bar - thanks to ALL posters for helpful and infornmative posts - at least I now understand what I'm dealing with - My tank with non-formaldehyde blue can safely go down our convenient outside loo when we get back from a trip - once all the blue's gone I shall get some green or one of the other bio-alternatives.

Thanks again all

Steve


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## teemac

*chemical toilet emptying*

7 years Later - a few weeks ago I returned from a cycle event in my motorhome and having a full waste tank and nowhere to empty it I stumbled across this thread. I have since been pointed to the following by a friend 'www.loostation.co.uk' purchased one and now my problems are solved  just thought I would share for anybody else searching old threads.


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## rayc

http://www.loostation.co.uk/

It is easy to forget how riveting the topics were in those far off days when MHF ruled the MH world


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## GEMMY

Thanks for the link, however, I prefer to lift the lid of my manhole...............It's far bigger hole to aim at with absolutely no risk of spillage :wink2:


tony


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## autostratus

I've used a similar system to this on an aire in France.
I've racked my brain (or what's left of it!) and I think it may be Chateau Gontier, south of Laval on the R. Mayenne.

It's a few years since we stopped there so I could well be wrong.

Wherever it was I remember thinking how easy it was and wished I could get something similar for home.
I have to use our house loo and I hate doing it but have no alternative.


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## nicholsong

Looks like a very small orifice to aim at with the initial 'tip'

We fortunately have a loo in the basement next to the integral garage and that orifice is big enough - even for my aim.

We also carry manhole lifter keys for when on the road - yes, we would check it is for 'black water' before discharging, but so far never been used.

Geoff


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## yarpie

*SOG emptying.*

With head poking over parapet - see what you think of this!

I have on about 4 occasions emptied my SOG,[in which I use no chemicals at all] surreptitiously into a convenient roadside ditch at a location and position where noone would be able to "stumble" upon it; on the basis that although it might be a bit noxious for a couple of days, there are only natural constituents which will fairly quickly disintegrate.

Head now below.


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## rayc

yarpie said:


> With head poking over parapet - see what you think of this!
> 
> I have on about 4 occasions emptied my SOG,[in which I use no chemicals at all] surreptitiously into a convenient roadside ditch at a location and position where noone would be able to "stumble" upon it; on the basis that although it might be a bit noxious for a couple of days, there are only natural constituents which will fairly quickly disintegrate.
> 
> Head now below.


Poole Council is closing the many of its public conveniences so I expect natural constituents to be liberally spread throughout the town.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Whats wrong with just tipping it down the loo at home, manhole if you have access is better of course, pop it in a bin bag just in case, been doing it like that forever, no problems, just open the window and spray something, sorted, the less faffing about the better IMHO, If it's not full and you're going away again soon leave it in the van and tip it at the first opportunity.


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