# Battery & Charging system advice - yawn... sorry!



## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

Hi There

Just after a bit of knowledge really... have had my van for a couple of months and am using it "wild camping" for 4/5 days and then home for 4/5 days. 

The battery setup (as I understand it) is that the separate leisure battery can be switched to charge whilst in transit (an EITHER the vehicle battery charging OR the leisure battery charging scenario) Up until now everything seems to have been fine and I've been able to run my lighting, water TV and air blown heating (not too often) within the charge of the battery..... However, last week I dropped to RED LIGHT low power on Zig unit and even with 240 miles of motorway charging the battery hasn't charged at all. As my emergency situation I have jump lead connected another battery to the existing leisure battery (didn't have time to install properly as it involves seat removal) and this seems to be holding up, thus far! BUT I have now noticed that my vehicle battery seems to be a little low - red light flicker on Zig when it was in circuit and I turned on the light! 

Now for the question... is this likely to be because the vehicle and leisure batteries may be connected in parallel (they shouldn't be should they if they charge independently from the alternator??? or is it a faulty alternator??? If it's the latter then I'm worried about my upcoming night time journey home?

Final question... if it's a case of the batteries being dead (no idea of age) what would be the ideal setup for my situation?

TIA

Vic


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
To the best of my knowledge you can switch to leisure or vehicle battery to power your 12 volt appliances. The position of this switch should make no difference to the batteries being charged when the engine is running. The leisure battery will have a charging relay which closes when the engine is running and allows the alternator to charge it. There is also a fuse in this circuit which should be checked. Note that later vehicles will have a relay which cuts out all appliances on 12 volts when the engine is running. If you have a fridge which operates on 12 volts this will have a the same set up as leisure battery charging. Faults can be..Bad connections, blown fuses, fridge relay not switching off when engine switched off therefore flattening battery, poor alternator output. A rough test of your alternator is to start up and see if your lights get brighter when you rev up, if you have a test meter you can put it on both batteries to see if they are being charged.
Regards,
Chris V


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

stickey said:


> Hi,
> To the best of my knowledge you can switch to leisure or vehicle battery to power your 12 volt appliances. The position of this switch should make no difference to the batteries being charged when the engine is running.


Yeah that is my understanding also of the switch on the Zig unit... However, when I bought the van I was told that the switch in the cab (looks and is positioned as though it is a choke) is the charge selector switch, "in" for vehicle charge and "out" for leisure charge (a light comes on when pulled out) I have been quite merrily changing over my charging in transit??? Is this switch not what I think it is???!!! This switching of charge is the evidence in my mind that my batteries are not connected in parallel and hence if both batterieis appear to be failing it's either they're both dud (feasible as they are exactly same type and make - make have been installed at same time) or there's a problem with my charging system???

TIA


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
From what you say it sounds as though your van has been " modified" and you need to get it checked with a meter to see what actually does what. Is this switch original or a later addition also your two batteries should be one starter and one leisure type, any chance of contacting the previous owner?
Regards,
Chris V.


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

stickey said:


> Hi,
> From what you say it sounds as though your van has been " modified" and you need to get it checked with a meter to see what actually does what. Is this switch original or a later addition also your two batteries should be one starter and one leisure type, any chance of contacting the previous owner?
> Regards,
> Chris V.


The van is a 1985 Diamond VW T25 conversion - old technology obviously in the grand scheme of things... did read instruction manual which I seem to remember echoed what the previous owners said about charging scenario. (manual/(leaflet!)is now at home and I'm not so cannot check it until tomorrow night.) Unfortunately the previous owners only had the van for 3 months while they were over here from New Zealand.... they are now back home so I have no way of contacting them and I have no clue as to who the original long term owners were. Has anyone heard of this kind of set-up before?

TIA


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi I think your system is a deffo diy job,so you need to find out witch battery is charging when?Once you identify you can choose witch you want o charge ,ie cab or l/battery.Failing this connect your wires to a relay that will charge both whislt driving and find what charges on hook-up.
terry


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

*Symptoms Update!*

Hi there

Thanks for all of your help so far.

I still haven't got to the bottom of this problem so if I can give you a quick update I'm hoping someone will know the answer!

Leisure battery has now been replaced with Elecsol 100aH jobby... first time out had me back in RED LIGHT Zig situation within 1 hour of having 12v zig switch on (nothing running as such maybe lighting for a couple of minutes in total!)

Went to start van the other day and the main battery was dead as a dodo..... so took it out of vehicle and stuck it on charge on my nice new C-Tek charger.

NOW the interesting bit...(yawn)... whilst driving down the M1 having had to jump start it (battery didn't charge enough in the time I had!) I noticed that THE CLOCK SHOWED THE CORRECT TIME!!! Surely having had the vehicle battery disconnected should have stoppped the clock. Obviously it must have been getting power from the leisure battery somehow??? This is making me think that something in the split charge system is STUCK??? Relay??? Diode???? Am I on the right track with my thinking? AND could this be why my leisure battery has been draing - has the main battery been pulling all of the juice from it because they seem to be permanently connected when they should only connect if engine is running? Does this sound right?

Please help cos I really need to sort this power prob out as waking up when the temp INSIDE the van is -2 is not much fun!


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi this is just a thought and may not have anything to do with your plightbut on my old zig unit the 12v switch had to be turned on for any charging to take place either on engine or h/up
terry


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

maddie said:


> Hi this is just a thought and may not have anything to do with your plightbut on my old zig unit the 12v switch had to be turned on for any charging to take place either on engine or h/up
> terry


I thought this when I did a bit of analysis with me voltmeter the other day... the 12v switch makes no difference to the voltage across battery during split charge and the other switch I mentioned in a previous post makes 0.01v difference whether it be favouring the main battery or the leisure battery. Which again leads me to think that the batteries have become permanently connected somehow?

Whereabouts do I locate the relay system and how do I test it to see if my theory is correct?

TIA


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

hi vic
regarding the clock, it may have a capacitor inside designed to hold enough charge for a temporary disconnection of the batteries. 

If this isn't the case then the reason its held the time is because its staying connected to the leisure battery. I will suggest some possible reasons.
The zig unit MAY have a switch saying "on site" or "towing" or similar. Treat this as saying "charge whilst". (on site or towing) If its set to on site then this effectively disconnects it from the van starting battery.
If you set it to towing then this connects the two together. 

However if the split charge relay gets stuck open or a wire comes off then this will mean that the charge which should reach the leisure battery wont get there. You need to find this relay(and there will probally be one for the fridge as well so don't confuse them" and check it out. You will need a multi meter ideally. I cant remember the pin configuration but you can get it off tinternet. but basically
One pin should have a permanent live feed to it. This is coming direct from the battery (via fuse)
One pin has the wire running to the leisure battery
One pin goes to earth.
One pin has a switched live feed which only comes on when you turn on the ignition.

When you have identified these pins make sure that the feed to the leisure battery is not live when the ignition is not on. This should only become live when you turn the ignition on. You should find this OK.

Now turn on the ignition (or get help whilst you listen) you will hear a click when the ignition comes on. Now check that the terninal on the relay which goes to the leisure battery has become live. If so then the relay system is OKAY Note just lilisteningor a click is not sufficient as the relay contacts may be damaged and not allowing the current through.

If this is OKAY then there is a drain somewhere on the leisure system. It may be that there is a faulty connection somewhere so look at all the battery connections etc. if OKAY then you will have to remove the zig. there will be a wire going to the battery which looks for a voltage and when the circuit inside sees lees than 11v then it will trip a transistor to show the red light. Now it may be that because the wire is not connected at all this is why you get the red light. There will be loads of wires behind that zig but you may need a bit of cord ready to hang it on whilst you check all the connections on the back. Its fairly simple and just a row of chocolate block connectors. make sure they are all tight by screwing them up with a screwdriver. they can become loose during vibration from driving so actually check each one. 

I hope this sorts the problem your. Hopefully it will as most problems are connection related.
Let us know how you get on

Good Luck
Phill
p's what type of van you got - how old etc


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks for the "step-by-step" drcotts... will give it a go when I get back home.

I have a 1985 VW T25.

Thanks again.

Any other suggestions and advice still very much welcomed!


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Vic,

OK. Back to basics. You have a multimeter and are not scared to use it.

a) What is the voltage across your vehicle battery with engine going? 

b) Ditto the leisure battery?

c) Ditto leisure battery but engine OFF and Zig ON on an EHU?

d) Once leisure battery reasonably charged, turn everything off, and measure current drawn between removed negative leisure battery lead and negative battery post terminal. What's this figure?

These tests cost nothing and can almost certainly diagnose what's wrong, or at least narrow down a confusing picture. Unfortunately you are not alone in being tempted to buy a new battery and find that it is soon bu..ered, too. This is often sheer hope over logic and can cost a lot in money and disappointment terms. 

Dave


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## 106942 (Sep 10, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> Vic,
> 
> OK. Back to basics. You have a multimeter and are not scared to use it.
> 
> ...


Thanks, will get on the case once I'm back home.


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## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
You said that your fully charged leisure battery is flat after one hour? This suggests to me that the fridge is trying to run on 12 volts when your engine is off. The other problem you can get is when the engine is running the relay closes to allow the alternator to supply voltage to the fridge but if the supply fuse is blown the fridge draws its power from the leisure battery instead. Sounds like hours of fun with a meter.
Regards,
Chris V :roll:


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