# disaster caused by our incomptence



## MEES

A cautionary tale. Our beloved Dalmation Lucky is now in kennels in Dunkirk due to our incompetence. We misunderstood the booster date and now Lucky must stay abroad for 7 months   
We are gutted. We have decided to return in 2 weeks (pretending to ourselves he is in kennels while we are on holiday)
Then we will have to try to stay on the continent until December 7th. So at least he will be free and with us.
We will have to Fly/train home in turns to deal with family matters at home.
Please, Please check your dates very carefully and with your vet.
im sure no-one else would be so stupid


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## Rapide561

*VAccine*

Hi

I am really sorry to hear of this.

Could you explain in a bit more detail what has gone wrong to possibly assist others?

Russell


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## MEES

Sheer maddening incompetence.
Because you have to wait 6+ months after the initial vaccination and blood tests it just did not seem like 2 years had gone by...
Yes I know bloody stupid and no-one can be more upset with ourselves than we are. (thank god we are not blaming each other though I blame myself cause i usually deal with all things paperwork)
Only when driving to the vet in Dunkirk did I read the thing properly and my stomack nearly fell out of my bottom -we were 2 weeks out.
This means the whole process must start again as the vet explained while we snivelled. Rabies vaccination,one month later blood test 6 months later re-admission to UK....
The vet was helpful and found us a kennels which will take him (10 euros a day) It is as nice as these places can be but it has been a horrible experience,


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## Chascass

Did you get a reminder from your vet? if not, I would have a few choice word for them.

Charlie


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## DTPCHEMICALS

Poor Lucky.
I hope you see a happy ending.

Dave p


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## Rapide561

*Dog*

Well, the main thing is you are all safe etc. As you say, think of it as though it is a fortnights holiday etc.

Russell


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## MEES

Thanks Russel the kennels have just e-mailed us to say he is eating well and enjoying his walks. perhaps we will sleep now...
We just need to solve our collapsing rear bed and become Satallite competant in the next two weeks before we set off for seven months! :roll:


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## Hezbez

How awful for you.
Try not to blame yourselves. You feel bad enough already.

I hope Lucky settles well and the time passes quickly


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## rayrecrok

Wow thats a bummer, never mind it will soon pass, and if your Dalmation is anything like ours as long as she's getting fed they are happy where ever they are.

They never forget you so don't worry.

A tale for you. My son used to have this whippet greyhound type thing, it was totally bonkers but when it was with us at our house it was a different dog.
To cut a long storey short they couldn't do anything with it so reluctantly they took it to the rescue to be re homed, end of story.

Perhaps not.

2 or 3 years later I was coming home from work and what should be sitting on the step the dopey dog, it had a collar on with a Leeds phone number on.
I phoned the number and they said it had run away about 10 days ago, they had aquired it as a rescue dog but they were disappointed as they had not been able to do anything with it just like my son.

Anyway much to the disappointment of the dog the present owner came round to collect it, it had somehow travelled from the Yeaden area of Leeds to end up back at our house in Wakefield, We both felt so guilty about giving it back but at the time we were both working long hours and could not be tied down with any pets.... Hmmmm...


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## Invicta

Any chance of a MHF member visiting the continent 'fostering' Lucky for you? Just a thought.


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## rogerandveronica

What makes me very uptight about the OP's position is that my vet has stated that the protection lasts at least three years and it is only the inflexibility of the British restrictions that have caused this problem.

I believe that it is legal to travel within the EU to and from Greece with your unvaccinated dog (where, I have been told, there is quite a lot of rabies) and travel back to France crossing other internal EU borders with your dog, it is only when you come to the UK border that the six month rule applies.

From the Pet Passport information on the web, it would seem that Rabies is endemic right up to the channel ports and it is only the vigilance of the UK authorities that keeps it a bay. 

Are there any knowledgeable vetinary MHF members who could substantiate this?

I feel that we are being had by the establishment once again!

Rant over for now, rogerandveronica


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## tonka

Not a current dog owner and cant say I know much about pet passports BUT cant the dog be bought back to UK and go into quarantine at a British location ????
You seem to read stories of people bringing back "resuced " animals from their holidays etc..

Or is that route just to expensive / not allowed ??

However using that route you would not be able to take him out, At least with going over there you can travel around with him and kennel him occassionally..

Good luck with it all...


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## MEES

Thanks Invicta for the idea.
We are still very raw and only discussed the problem with our adult children yesterday.
A complication is that I have 4 baby/toddler grandchildren locally and obviously dont want to miss them for 7 months (and i currently help out with grandchildren)
So we are still basically hoping to tranfer ourselves to Europe at the end of June .
Then we will have to plan a mix of one of us travelling home to Lancashire for short stays.
If anyone has any experience of cheap solo travel it would be good to hear it.
It might be possible for someone to 'mind' him for a short time so we could both come home for a while.
We have a new grandchild due mid August and they already have two toddlers so I at least will have to be home to help out with that.
The kennels have e-mailed me (in French) and the gist is he has settled well. If that proves to be the case then short spells in kennels may be the answer but 7 months -no way! 8O 8O


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## MEES

We have investigated bringing him home in quarentiine.
Basically he could end up in a kennels locally but I understand would be restricted to a kennel/run for the whole 6 months.
We could visit but only in his run.
As he is a dalmation used to long walks I think this would be a bad option for him (and distressing for us visiting him and not walking him then leaving him)
We are following the thread though to see if he could come back for less than 6 months after a period in Europe we had the vaccination done in France last friday.
Will consult Defra.
At present we are trying to convince ourselves its an opportunity


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## LisaB

just checked our little mans passport, his jab is valid for 3 years? Jan 08 until Jan 11 - should I be concerned about the 2 years bit?


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## MyGalSal

Unless you have NO choice don't put him in quarantine in the UK. We once did this when we brought our dog back from Bermuda - years ago pre passport days. They are kept in a kennel with a short run and are never out. Torture. 
Sal


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## Rapide561

*Mees*

If it helps, I am crossing the channel in June (southbound), north bound in July, southbound in September. I could maybe give you a life to/from Dunkirk???

Russell

£1.50 per mile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Serious offer though, if it is any iassistance


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## TDG

MEES said:


> Thanks Russel the kennels have just e-mailed us to say he is eating well and enjoying his walks. perhaps we will sleep now...


It won't be much consolation to you but I had a Dalmation and he didn't care where he was,or who he was with as long as he had 10 hours sleep at night, 10 hours walking & playing and what seemed like 4 hours eating every day :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Rapide561

*Vaccines*

Lisa - I topped up Oscars rabies booster every 12 months.

Russell


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## MEES

thanks Russell very generous may get in touch later when our dates are sorted with family
Margaret and graham


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## patp

If it helps you I can tell you that most dogs do not mind kennels at all.

I have worked in kennels (as well as vet's and other dog related jobs) and after the initial "'ello what's all this about" reaction most dogs settle down to the routine of things.

What we have to remember is that dogs do not think like people. We think of bars and cages etc as meaning "prison". Dogs have no such thoughts. No one can tell them that kennels are a "bad" place to be so they make their own mind up. If they have shelter and food then they are reasonably happy. Of course they would be "happier" if they had individual attention but that is about it.

Please try not to worry too much about your dog. It hurts our feelings to think that they are happy enough where they are but I am afraid that it is often the reality.

Having said all that I would be doing exactly what you are doing if it was my dog  

Hope it all works out for you.

Pat


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## LisaB

In a terrible stomach sinking feeling ( one of two I have had today - the first was thinking I have been done for 34 in a 30 on my usual work route, but hope not as was in flow of traffic!  In a Smart car - something to be "proud of" ! lol )

I have then panicked about all re: taking Boris on his travels......(even though we have been a few times before - I am always "suspect" of troubles ahead, as it seems too easy!)


I have spoken to a vet in our practice, re all the spot on bits ie Advocate, Advantix etc and also his rabies 


I/ we have a three year jab ie done in 2008 so is due for booster in 2011. I believe earlier jabs were for 2 years and yes I would agree with the OP after the original 6 months "amnesty" time must slip by hence my early panic today!

As for the spots ons I have still no definative answer - other than spread the treatments out as much as possible.

Anyway needless to say I am traumatised at the thought of being in the same situation, Boris would I am sure think he was at some "puppy party" and have a whale of a time but I would be bereft without him. 


Best wishes to Lucky - I will think about him and hope some solution will come along soon x

The data sheet reads the same rules its a Nobivac Rabies injection.


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## Losos

MEES said:


> Because you have to wait 6+ months after the initial vaccination and blood tests it just did not seem like 2 years had gone by...
> 
> -we were 2 weeks out.


Sorry I'm still a bit confused about the "2 years had gone by" thing.

Are you saying you had the rabies vaccination 2 years prior to having the blood tests but you only waited 5 months and 2 weeks after getting the letter confirming the blood tests were OK :?: :?: (Instead of the 6 months)

I think that's what you are saying, sorry don't want to extend your embarrissment but these regulations are hardly crystal clear I've had to read the flaming DEFRA leaflet several times myself.

BTW well done on arranging to spend so long abroad that's true cannine devotion in reverse and I've not often come across that


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## locovan

Im beginning to see how you made the mistake and I had been doing the calculations wrong with my Louis, the vet put me right.
I thought we had 2 clear years from the blood test but in fact you loose 7 months of the first 2 years as you have to count from the Injection date but cant go abroad for 7 months ( 6months from the injection and one month for the blood test )
Then when you have the first booster you have 2 clear years.
Im sorry this has happened for you and it is causing such an upheaval


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## Losos

rogerandveronica said:


> From the Pet Passport information on the web, it would seem that Rabies is endemic right up to the channel ports and it is only the vigilance of the UK authorities that keeps it a bay.
> 
> *Are there any knowledgeable vetinary MHF members who could substantiate this?*


I can only talk about one country The Czech Republic (Just below Germany and just North of Austria on the map  ) and I'm *not* a vet.

The Czech Ministry of Agriculture claims that there have been *three* cases of rabies since 1953 two of which were 'brought in' from Africa and one was a women in 1955 who caught it from a fox.

Vaccination against rabies is *compulsory here* and I'm not sure that you can travel throughout mainland EU countries with out the jab. *What is not compulsory 'tho is the blood test*. We just paid £30 per dog for the test and letter to be done. ('Cos we are comming to UK this year)

When contemplating the figures from the Ministry of Agriculture do bear in mind that for the 57 years they cover 40 of them were under the communist regime *where reliable facts and figures were a joke* so could be much higher :roll:

Where we walk our dogs in the forrest we regularly see anti-rabies bait laid out for the foxes and I'm told (Only hearsay of course) that rabbies is* not *a big problem here.


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## Briarose

Hi for those of you that are concerned ref the two/three year vaccinations read the whole of the topic at the top of this forum.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-17312-important-info-revaccination-validity.html

Our dogs previously had the two year vaccination but now have the three year one.............I have been in contact with DEFRA and you will see the replies in that topic.* I also asked at Calais and was told that they go by the expiry date in the passport*.

*If you are travelling to France check and re-check the expiry date on your pets passport*, if you are concerned email DEFRA before you leave the UK and print out the reply. It depends on the vaccination used as to whether it is two or three years, we also met a couple abroad that had friends that should have travelled with them, but had had a booster after twelve months when it should have been two years and it had made the dog ill, so they were unable to travel the dog was ill as the booster had been done too soon, so again check with your own Vet although I sometimes get the impression that not all UK vets are 100 % about things themselves hence my suggestion to contact DEFRA too, they are pretty quick at replying.


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## locovan

Briarose said:


> Hi for those of you that are concerned ref the two/three year vaccinations read the whole of the topic at the top of this forum.
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-17312-important-info-revaccination-validity.html
> 
> Our dogs previously had the two year vaccination but now have the three year one.............I have been in contact with DEFRA and you will see the replies in that topic.* I also asked at Calais and was told that they go by the expiry date in the passport*.
> 
> *If you are travelling to France check and re-check the expiry date on your pets passport*, if you are concerned email DEFRA before you leave the UK and print out the reply. It depends on the vaccination used as to whether it is two or three years, we also met a couple abroad that had friends that should have travelled with them, but had had a booster after twelve months when it should have been two years and it had made the dog ill, so they were unable to travel the dog was ill as the booster had been done too soon, so again check with your own Vet although I sometimes get the impression that not all UK vets are 100 % about things themselves hence my suggestion to contact DEFRA too, they are pretty quick at replying.


you are so right about the vets as mine wanted to give Louis his booster when he had his normal boosters--- 6 months before the rabies one was due --Just in case I should forget ---silly or just making money???


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## neilanddot

So sorry to hear of your terrible situation. I can totally understand how you felt when the truth dawned. We took our dog to our vet yesterday just to have the details checked as I felt we were unable to do it ourselves. It is a wretched and expensive situation, glad you 2 are coping ok. 
On another note if you were pleased with the Dunkirk vet could you give their details and how their English is, as whilst we speak a small amount of French it won't hold up medically. Good luck Neil


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## Briarose

Just to add I am also sorry to have read what has happened. And to anyone travelling our Vet advised us to get the chip checked before travel too.


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## neilanddot

Just to add briarose's point about getting the chip checked, they can go walkabout and if you get the wrong official it can be awkward. Neil


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## MEES

Hi everyone thanks for all your kind messages of support.
Locovan you have got it -thats exactly what happened.
However on the passport it clearly says when it expires and that was two weeks before we returned. 
So it is still our incompetence!!
1. Dog vacinated for rabies.
2. One month later return for blood test.
3. Few weeks after check blood test OK (if not it will be repeated.
4. Return to vet for all paperwork/passport to be signed (pay lots of money)
5. Wait 6 months before you try to bring dog back in to country.

Where did we go wrong...

In my mind I thought the 2 years started from when the vet said the blood test was OK.
And that the booster was due from the results of the original blood test.

The point is check the passport date of expiry thats what they go off.
Now because he has been vaccinated in france the booster is due every 12 months (the day before the anniversary of the vaccination) at the latest.
Hope this clarifies


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## MEES

*Vet in Dunkirk*

The vet we used was very helpful (under the circumstances)
The vetinary nurse does not speak English but together with the vet
Sorted out an excellent kennels in the countryside just outside Dunkirk.
The young lady vet speaks excellent English.

We paid 40 euros which considering the commotion we caused is value for money.
It included the rabies vaccine and she suggested we boost the distemper and kennel cough at the same time.

obviously we will pay more for blood test and passport updating later.

Drs Beaurin et Wispelaere
66 bis Avenue du casino
59240 Dunkerque

Tel 03.28.63.31.14


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## ardgour

Sorry to hear about this - it is an easy mistake to make if you are not familiar with vaccines. I kept checking and rechecking our pet passport as the booster date approached.
When you say he needs boosters every year because the first one was done in France, if you get his booster done in the UK next year it will then cover for the normal 2 years on a British pet passport. The one year is probably because the French (and several other countries) do yearly vaccination for resident dogs.
All of this might sound barmy because as you say the vaccine probably does last for longer but the bottom line is that nobody is going to (or should) take a risk with rabies. It is a horrible disease that invariably leads to a very distressing and painful death - only about 3 people worldwide have ever been known to survive it. You don't know that an animal (or human) has been infected until the symptoms show - which can be several months - and by then there is no treatment and no cure. If your pet was to show signs of rabies it would have to be destroyed immediately and anyone in contact with it have post exposure rabies treatment then an anxious wait hoping that they had not been infected. 
Yes the authorities here are a bit draconian about keeping rabies out but ask anyone who has ever seen a case of rabies and they will agree it is the best policy.

Chris


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## MEES

Thanks for this info Chris
We fully appreciate all the reasons for ketting it right and have no critsisms of the system or anyone involved its our fault for being careless....
Still it will mean we will have prolonged trips abroad for the next 9 months so its not all bad  
fortunately Graham is retired and I will now finish my part time work.
We will trip back and forward to sort out things at home.
Now must stop watching MHF for a bit and chase up all the isurance policies etc which will want renuing .....


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## LisaB

Top Tips: (from my vet)

1.Check your microchip hasnt moved/failed, via your vet or purchase a small basic scanner for peace of mind (appx £30) via internet.

2. Carry your vaccine certificate as well as your passport and

3. Carry a copy of your blood test result (my vet told me to)

I keep all these in a small plastic wallet with photocopies at home (same as with our passports)


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## Briarose

LisaB said:


> Top Tips: (from my vet)
> 
> 1.Check your microchip hasnt moved/failed, via your vet or purchase a small basic scanner for peace of mind (appx £30) via internet.
> 
> 2. Carry your vaccine certificate as well as your passport and
> 
> 3. Carry a copy of your blood test result (my vet told me to)
> 
> I keep all these in a small plastic wallet with photocopies at home (same as with our passports)


Hi Lisa ref number 2 there is a part of the passport where that info can be recorded, our Vet puts it in ours.

My top tip would be check and re-check the expiry date in the passport.


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## LisaB

Briarose said:


> LisaB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top Tips: (from my vet)
> 
> 1.Check your microchip hasnt moved/failed, via your vet or purchase a small basic scanner for peace of mind (appx £30) via internet.
> 
> 2. Carry your vaccine certificate as well as your passport and
> 
> 3. Carry a copy of your blood test result (my vet told me to)
> 
> I keep all these in a small plastic wallet with photocopies at home (same as with our passports)
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Lisa ref number 2 there is a part of the passport where that info can be recorded, our Vet puts it in ours.
> 
> My top tip would be check and re-check the expiry date in the passport.
Click to expand...

Hi Briarose

yes my vet has recorded the first lot of other vaccines he had and the second, but when I went last time he didnt do it and said it wasnt compulsary!?!

Some campsites ask to see all inoculations records.


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## Briarose

LisaB said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LisaB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top Tips: (from my vet)
> 
> 1.Check your microchip hasnt moved/failed, via your vet or purchase a small basic scanner for peace of mind (appx £30) via internet.
> 
> 2. Carry your vaccine certificate as well as your passport and
> 
> 3. Carry a copy of your blood test result (my vet told me to)
> 
> I keep all these in a small plastic wallet with photocopies at home (same as with our passports)
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Lisa ref number 2 there is a part of the passport where that info can be recorded, our Vet puts it in ours.
> 
> My top tip would be check and re-check the expiry date in the passport.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Briarose
> 
> yes my vet has recorded the first lot of other vaccines he had and the second, but when I went last time he didnt do it and said it wasnt compulsary!?!
> 
> Some campsites ask to see all inoculations records.
Click to expand...

Hi my Vet said although not compulsory he prefers to do he updated one of our passports when I went on a return visit and a previous locum vet hadn't done it.

Out of two travels abroad though we have only been asked once to see other vaccinations, and that was in France on a one night stopover.


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