# The luck of Artona and the saga of the wheel bolts



## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi


A few days ago I posted to say I was having problems with rusted in wheel bolts. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Today I went to a specialist lorry trye firm but unfortunately the bolt was so rusted it snapped off.

We then spent the afternoon seaching, without success for a firm who could fit new hubs.

After putting up with lorry firms telling me my vehicle wasn't a euromobil based on a fiat ducato and that it was a hymer I returned to the campsite.

It was then my luck changed and the site owner and his son came to the rescue. The wheel is now off and all we need is a 15mm allen key and the hub will be off ready to be redrilled to take new bolts.

In all four of the five bolts snapped. I shall then be carefully taking all the bolts out, greasing them and refitting them. All we needed was a puncture on the motorway and we would have been in trouble.

As it is we are "stranded on probably the most peaceful and beautiful campsite in Suffolk, which of course we found via the MHF campsite database

stew


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## 88781 (May 9, 2005)

Could have been a real 'mare in the event of a puncture Stew! 8O get the guys to check all the others, it would seem like the wheels have not been on and off in quite a while :? 

Dave :wink:


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## neilandsue (Jul 13, 2006)

Hi Stew,

A lesson to us all that 8O 

When you reassemble the nuts/studs use "Copperslip" instead of grease.

Neil


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi Stew

You should have brought it over to the MHF Surrey repair facility, you wouldn't have had the bolt shearing problem here mate, if I can get em out when they've been in for 55 years I don't think a youngish Euromobile (or is it a Hymer 8) ) would have caused too much trouble, even if it is on a Fiat chassis. The labour rates are reasonable too - and you get free camping. :wink:

And if you really want to get them out again easily don't use grease or copper-slip, just brush the threads with some waxoyl before you screw them in.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Ken

Get the camping site clear    


stew


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## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

*wheel studs*

Under no circumstance do you oil/grease wheel/ nuts /studs. they are a dry bolt and must be torqued to the correct setting. you will find your wheel passing you in less than a week if you put any oil/grease nr them??
not very clever snapping 4 suds. why did'nt they warm the up first!!!


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Hi stew is this the same Motorhome that was serviced in Dec / Jan time?
didnt they have the wheels off then?
Can confirm NO grease/ Lubricants should be used, just for information all bolts with a Torque setting are used and figures based on a dry thread
Geo


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

Is the crank up ok?? :roll: :lol:


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Yes Geo, although it was not a major service. Crank up ok thanks Shane  


stew


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## CatherineandSteve (Dec 20, 2005)

Hi Stew,

Glad you got it sorted, could have been a real problem if you'd had a flat.
Regards to you Shona & Jessica.

Steve & Catherine.


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

Ah So
So long as the cranks ok, ps hows the satalite system :lol: 
Geo


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## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

> Hi stew is this the same Motorhome that was serviced in Dec / Jan time


Good point Geo, Stew I suggest look carefully at the paperwork relating to the service... :wink:

As for grease etc where wheel nuts are concerned it's a no-no IMHO.

When I was young I knew someone that had squeaky brakes, some wise guy told him to put a little oil on them 8O first corner he hit a brick wall, no brakes.

MHS...Rob


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## olley (May 1, 2005)

Motorhomersimpson said:


> > When I was young I knew someone that had squeaky brakes, some wise guy told him to put a little oil on them 8O first corner he hit a brick wall, no brakes.
> >
> > MHS...Rob
> 
> ...


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## Motorhomersimpson (May 9, 2005)

olley said:


> Was that the wooden block type rob?  Did the horses get hurt? Olley


 :lol: :lol: No... The guy in front with the flag did though :lol: :lol:

MHS...Rob


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

*Re: wheel studs*



silversurfa said:


> Under no circumstance do you oil/grease wheel/ nuts /studs. they are a dry bolt and must be torqued to the correct setting. you will find your wheel passing you in less than a week if you put any oil/grease nr them??
> not very clever snapping 4 suds. why did'nt they warm the up first!!!


Hmmmm..........

Well I've been putting waxoyl on wheel nuts/studs for the last 45 years and I haven't had a wheel pass me yet. 8O

But no doubt in these days of components designed frighteningly close to their limits, torque wrenches, impact drivers and weak arm muscles you're obviously right that we must all stick to the manufacturers instruction sheet or face the consequences when we come to make the compensation claim. :wink:


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hmmmmmmm... again

The accepted advice for me* ( but it is suggested by many wheel and large vehicle manufacturers too ) is that a very small amount of lubrication is needed on the THREADS... without this you might as well throw the torque wrench away.. the setting will be incorrect. 

Also ...a little "Plus Gas" dismantling fluid may have helped the removal of the seized fixings.

Mike

*
P.S. Note I said it was the advice I follow... I would not presume to try to challenge anyone in any way.... there does seem to be two schools of thought on how it should be done.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice. and anyway put two mechanics ( or engineers) in a room they never agree, everyone knows that :lol:


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your bad luck Stew .. glad to hear your getting it sorted... I'm often asked what happens if I break down when fulltiming, my answer is, " well, I'll still be at 'home' .. what do you do ? "

I've been following this thread (no pun intended) with interest and the advice given about lubrication.

I'm in the 'hmmmmm ' camp but with such an important issue I decided to try and get some information.. unfortunately it is not conclusive.

Rather than copy paste I've attached the DOT link and the .. Transport Technology and Standards (TTS) 6, Department for Transport (DfT).. report and recommendations.. heavy reading but worth the effort..

see what you think ..

Department of Transport


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

As to lubrication, here is what taxpayer-funded DfT research found:
> DfT research <

"Lubrication of stud/nut threads and interfaces. Most general guidance recommends lubrication, two general guidelines permitted it but did not recommend and one specifically prohibited it, although this related only to stud-piloted wheels. However, some manufacturers' recommendations specifically recommend not lubricating for specific vehicle types."

"A wide range of best practice guidelines are available that recommend practice and procedures for fitting and maintaining wheels. In general, the research into wheel fixing problems has meant that many of the requirements are now common to all of them but there are still areas such as actual torque levels and the issue of lubrication where there is not a standard approach. Further development towards common standards may well be beneficial."

I thought I'd just clear up this oil or not business once and for all.

Dave
Edit - snap Jim!


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

DABurleigh said:


> Edit - snap Jim!


great minds ... :wink:


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## mangothemadmonk (Aug 6, 2006)

I've copper-slipped and torqued for years with no probs and will continue to do so.
Johnny F


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## 97993 (Mar 5, 2006)

More food for thought 
despite all the rantings of the rights and wrongs it will be the Coroner who makes the final decision 8O 
Geo


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Wether lubricant should be used or not,surely the question here should be the wheels should have been off by now.
Stew,as I remember it you purchased you 810 Feb/March last year,just over a year ago, I would have that the dealer would have done that as part of the pdi.
SO would you buy from "That man again" (I thought Brownhills where the only people to make mistakes :lol: :lol: :lol: )
Gary


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

...and I'm pretty sure I know which dealer it came from-in which case it is of absolutely NO surprise to me that the pdi may not have been done properly.
I am off outside to see if MY bolts will come out........
:wink:


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Jim makes the point about fulltiming and breakdowns. The fact that we fulltime has meant that we could not just leave the motorhome at the Lorry Garage for them to do. HOWEVER if we had they would have replaced the wheel hub which would have meant the wheel bearing would have to be replaced and the shim as well - cost approx £400 for parts. Their labour would possibly have come to £200 to £300.

Because I have the RAC breakdown insurance I believe it would have covered this but we would probably have been without the van for a couple of weeks. Remember they would have had to realise that the vehicle is actually a Euromobil based on a Fiat Ducatto rather than a Hymer based on a _hymer_ !!!

As it happens I am actually quite enjoying this episode and if we get back on the road again it will feel like a real achievement.

Fiat got the new wheel bolts and 50mm wheel nut in within three hours and all we are struggling with at the moment is obtaining a 14mm/15mm allen key to get the brake caliper off so to release the hub.

As to Gary's question about whether I would buy from a dealer again the answer is only if they had the model I desperately wanted. Otherwise it would be over to Germany to make a big saving.

stew


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi Stew I,m not asking if you would buy from any dealer just that one.
As for me I would,I got mine from Westcroft before Brownhills day.I must say that thier after sales was 1st class,there was 1 or 2 issues with mine & I refused to drive the 200 mile round trip,I had the problems sorted locally,Westcroft sent me a cheque by return.Service as it should be     .
Gary


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

Well we finally have six wheels back on the van. What a job it has been. Many, many thanks to the site owner Brian and his son David and the site warden, John who have all worked hard to help. Many thanks also to the many MHF members who have pm'd me and phoned me with suggestions.

There were times when I thought we might not be worrying about having MOTs being done again!

We had to drill the four broken studs out and then retap the threads to take new bolts. I held my breath when we tightened the bolts. Any play and there was no way I was going to take a chance with driving her.

Waiting now for the morning to take her for a test drive but feeling confident


stew


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Well done Stew - these things are sent to try us. :roll: 

Be seeing you at Peterborough now then????


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Ken

They certainly are Ken, great to conquer though. Should be at Peterborough, wheels allowing 


stew


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## Snelly (Aug 20, 2005)

Well done Stew +

Its been a bit of a trial, but im sure you've learn't a lot.


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## artona (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Shane

I certainly have


stew


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## G2EWS (May 1, 2006)

Hi Stew,

Missed this one, but glad to see the problems sorted.

Maybe you should drill holes and put split pins in!! :lol:

Regards to Shona and Jessica.

Chris


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## Scotjimland (May 23, 2005)

Well done Stew .. reminds me of a song :: :lol:


Three wheels on my wagon,
And I’m still rolling along
The Cherokees are chasing me
Arrows fly, right on by
But I’m singing a happy song

I’m singing a higgity, haggity, hoggety, high
Pioneers, they never say die
A mile up the road there’s a hidden cave
And we can watch those Cherokees
Go galloping by

“George, they’re catching up to us!”
“Get back in the wagon woman!”


See you Pb :wink:


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Well this was one ' thread ' that didn't get stuck!! :lol:


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