# Interesting......



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

...for want of a better Thread Title:


Yesterday at PMQ Cameron was proud to say " 1000 Syrian Refugees have come into Britain today. They will all be housed, fed and given health support"

This morning's 5live phone in was "how should we help Britain's homeless this Christmas"

As they say..... "just saying"


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Just agreeing !!

Andy


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

As a country (or union of 4 countries) we are wealthy enough to help many more than just 1000, in Scotland we got some Syrian refugees last month. The homeless in the UK are made up of many tragic circumstances, divorce,drink or drugs, mental health issues etc, but each council has a responsibility to give shelter to anyone in need, even if it's just a bed in a hostel and up and down the country the Salvation army and other charitable groups help thousands have at least a bed and a hot meal over the winter (especially at Christmas). The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now. Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be.

Jim.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

"Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be."

on the basis of.....?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Jimblob44 said:


> As a country (or union of 4 countries) we are wealthy enough to help many more than just 1000, in Scotland we got some Syrian refugees last month. The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they
> 
> Jim.


AND they can't stop complaining about the wet weather,

just saying :wink2:


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

Telbell said:


> "Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be."
> 
> on the basis of.....?


On the basis of how many people can watch us bombing people out of their homes,thus creating the very refugees that many only see as a problem to be ignored or tutted at because they think it may impact their cosy "insular" lives.

(I must say that I wasn't directing that comment at you Telbell, but there are so many people who shout out about the homeless here as a reason to deny any help to the refugees yet I bet hardly any of them have ever lifted a finger to help the homeless.)

Jim.


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

GEMMY said:


> AND they can't stop complaining about the wet weather,
> 
> just saying :wink2:


I wonder if "wet weather" is Syrian for Gemmy?>


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## ob1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Jimblob44 said:


> As a country (or union of 4 countries) we are wealthy enough to help many more than just 1000, in Scotland we got some Syrian refugees last month. The homeless in the UK are made up of many tragic circumstances, divorce,drink or drugs, mental health issues etc, but each council has a responsibility to give shelter to anyone in need, even if it's just a bed in a hostel and up and down the country the Salvation army and other charitable groups help thousands have at least a bed and a hot meal over the winter (especially at Christmas). The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now. Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be.
> 
> Jim.


My family were blitzed during the last world war. They evacuated me to another part of the country but, like most people in their situation, they stayed put and stuck it out without a thought of fleeing the country.


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

ob1 said:


> My family were blitzed during the last world war. They evacuated me to another part of the country but, like most people in their situation, they stayed put and stuck it out without a thought of fleeing the country.


So was my grandparents but then they didn't have ISIS to flee from (The Nazis never got a foothold in the UK like ISIS have in Syria) they evacuated my dad and his sibs out into the countryside where they didn't have to fear beheadings or any kind of genocide because they were of a different religion. the camps in Syria where many of the refugees come from are little more than a shanty town where children and old folk are freezing in the winter.
During WW2 it would have been difficult to safely flee anyway, most of Europe seemed to be occupied and crossing the Atlantic was a gamble but I imagine that if the Nazis won the war and our parents/grandparents were to flee the country it would be nice to think that there would be a safe welcom somewhere.

Jim.


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## TheNomad (Aug 12, 2013)

Jimblob44 said:


> As a country (or union of 4 countries) we are wealthy enough to help many more than just 1000, in Scotland we got some Syrian refugees last month. The homeless in the UK are made up of many tragic circumstances, divorce,drink or drugs, mental health issues etc, but each council has a responsibility to give shelter to anyone in need, even if it's just a bed in a hostel and up and down the country the Salvation army and other charitable groups help thousands have at least a bed and a hot meal over the winter (especially at Christmas). The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now. Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be.
> 
> Jim.


But.....they're not COUNTRY-less though. 
Daesh only controls a relatively very small part of Syria (and that which they do control is mostly desert and sparsely populated swathes). 
These 1,000-plus people now being relocated, with no expense spared, nor passport inspected, to the UK to be housed and healthed and educated free for life at our expense were NOT at risk, as they were already in refugee camps in safe parts of Syria.
I'm not uncaring about them. We were paying to feed and water them there anyway. But I'm MORE caring about my own family, and the old, frail, sick, disabled, homeless people in my own country.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Does it matter where someone comes from? Should I care more about a homeless UK person than a Syrian Refugee? I care about them both the same. The world is a small place now and its our duty to do what we can to help others no matter where they come from. I am sure the majority of Syrians fleeing their country would rather be in a peaceful Syria than have to make a treacherous journey to Europe with no certainty as to where they will end up or if they will see their families again. I presume making that journey is not a decision taken lightly.

If you were a young man in Syria and ISIS come knocking its pretty much a choice of join them or die. No wonder they are all legging it but hopefully the EU will rally round and we are setting up camps and safe havens at source so perhaps the endless chain of migrants will start to ebb I dont know. 

Either way, I am glad and lucky I am not homeless or Syrian this Christmas. We all should be.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

On my local radio this morning they where discussing councils taking in migrants, High Wycombe has refused to take any because they don't have the facilities to even house their own homeless, one guy phoned in and suggested that they place the migrants in the north, will you take them in Barryd? mind you from what I have heard a week of your guitar playing will soon have them pining for home!


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Jimblob44 said:


> The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now.


Sorry Jim but that is just male cow faeces!!

The vast majority of Syrian casualties are a direct result of the civil war between the Assad Government and the various rebel groups (Kurds, Daesh, Jaish al Fateh, etc.) Most buildings were destroyed by the Syrian military dropping bombs (including many 'barrel bombs') on rebel held urban areas and ground action from both the Syrian military and rebel groups.

The foreign nations bombing Daesh targets (I will exclude Russia here as their targets are 'dubious') are not indiscriminately bombing civilian targets, as your post seems to suggest, they are acting on intelligence and hours (sometimes days or weeks) of surveillance, to ensure the target is legitimate.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I wonder what would happen if I just "arrived" in say Jordan and said I wanted to be housed fed and looked after by the Jordanians because I didn't want to stay in the UK.

I fully accept that the UK is safe (ish) these days but I am sure you get my point. Why do the vast majority want to come to the UK ???

What ever happened to "Charity begins at home"

More importantly, did you know that about 60% of the currently homeless people in the UK are ex servicemen, shouldn't we be looking at ways to help them FIRST??? My son is ex military, having done a few tours in "sunny" places, fortuneatly he is well settled with a family in his own house, but TOO MANY are not in that happy situation. 

This thread will attract a large number of probably highly polarised views and opinions. I have attempted to remain reasonably balanced and NOT rant but I for one would rather my taxes were spent looking after UK citizens FIRST. 

Just where do people think the money to care for large numbers of refugees comes from?? Taxes my friends, nowhere else, and whose pockets do those taxes come out of?? Yours and mine.

I say it again "Charity begins AT HOME"

Andy


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

TheNomad said:


> But.....they're not COUNTRY-less though.
> Daesh only controls a relatively very small part of Syria (and that which they do control is mostly desert and sparsely populated swathes).
> These 1,000-plus people now being relocated, with no expense spared, nor passport inspected, to the UK to be housed and healthed and educated free for life at our expense were NOT at risk, as they were already in refugee camps in safe parts of Syria.
> I'm not uncaring about them. We were paying to feed and water them there anyway. But I'm MORE caring about my own family, and the old, frail, sick, disabled, homeless people in my own country.


The tab for housing the Syrian refugees comes from a fund paid into by all the EU member states,the bill does not fall on our government alone.
I too care more for my own family than anything else but I also realise that there is a huge chasm between being homeless here in 2015 and getting bombed out your home. Like I said before no one here need be without a roof over their heads but I know that many are, mainly due to mental health issues or because of maybe drug or alcohol problems and therefor have difficulty budgeting for rent, gas, electric etc.
Why can't we be caring about all those in need of help? I would like to think that if the boot was on the other foot someone, somewhere would help regardless of my race, religion or country of origin.

Jim.


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## Jimblob44 (Oct 26, 2013)

siggie said:


> Sorry Jim but that is just male cow faeces!!
> 
> The vast majority of Syrian casualties are a direct result of the civil war between the Assad Government and the various rebel groups (Kurds, Daesh, Jaish al Fateh, etc.) Most buildings were destroyed by the Syrian military dropping bombs (including many 'barrel bombs') on rebel held urban areas and ground action from both the Syrian military and rebel groups.
> 
> The foreign nations bombing Daesh targets (I will exclude Russia here as their targets are 'dubious') are not indiscriminately bombing civilian targets, as your post seems to suggest, they are acting on intelligence and hours (sometimes days or weeks) of surveillance, to ensure the target is legitimate.


Sorry siggie but apart from Assad vs Daesh etc the west has been bombing for ages and you wont convince me that every bomb finds a terrorist and misses the innocent and I didn't vote for our country to join in and make things worse. If the intelligence they work on was any good there wouldn't be the casualties that there are.

Bombing in Iraq didn't work, Lybia was a disaster so why does anyone think bombing Syria will work?

Jim.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

While we might have sympathy and want to care for refugees and the displaced. There are just too many in today's war torn world (mostly Middle East and Africa) for any group of countries to accommodate but a small percentage. Plus of course there is always the terrorist or martyr element to consider. The 'West' just can't accommodate them all without suffering even more overcrowding and overloaded services.

Ray.


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## Matchlock (Jun 26, 2010)

Why don't the refugees from Daesh head south to the Syrian government stronghold to escape the conflict?


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

Jimblob44 said:


> and you wont convince me that every bomb finds a terrorist and misses the innocent


Re-read my post Jim. The first 3 words of the main content clearly agrees that not "_every bomb finds a terrorist and misses the innocent_", I simply stated that your post stating "_they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now_", implying that they are all homeless as a direct result of coalition anti-Daesh bombing missions. That is simply and vastly WRONG.

Civilian homes are NOT targeted by any one other than the Syrian military and the Syrian anti-Government rebels. The US, France, UK, Denmark, Holland, Canada, Australia, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the UAE are bombing Daesh in Iraq and/or Syria and do not target civilian homes or other civilian buildings. A very small number of bombs may loose guidance and cause some collateral damage, but the Paveway IV used by the UK, and others, uses GPS AND laser guidance to the target, and so is very, very accurate.



Jimblob44 said:


> I didn't vote for our country to join in and make things worse. If the intelligence they work on was any good there wouldn't be the casualties that there are.


First, unless you are an MP you didn't vote for our country to join in because you didn't get a vote at all.

Second, because the intelligence and surveillance is very good the number of civilian casualties is absolutely minimal. Sadly the same can't be said for the indiscriminate barrel bombing by the Syrian military or the random mortar/rocket/artillery fire by both the Syrian military and rebel groups (oh, and Russian bombing!) - the causes of the VAST majority of civilian deaths. To put it into perspective, over 200,000 civilians have died in Syria with less than 200 of them the result of coalition bombs. That is less than 0.1% of the civilian deaths in Syria caused by bombs dropped by ALL the nations involved in the coalition bombing campaign against Daesh (Russia are not part of the coalition and so the hundreds of civilians that they have killed are not included in the coalition figures).


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Mrplodd said:


> I wonder what would happen if I just "arrived" in say Jordan and said I wanted to be housed fed and looked after by the Jordanians because I didn't want to stay in the UK.
> 
> I fully accept that the UK is safe (ish) these days but I am sure you get my point. *Why do the vast majority want to come to the UK* ???
> 
> ...


I dont think the vast majority do want to come to the UK. It might seem like that to us because of all the problems at Calais which of course we watch carefully as we all pass in and out of there and it makes good news stories but the Migrants (and not just Syrians) are going all over Europe. Germany has taken much much more than us and any other country. I think Italy and France have taken more than us or about the same. The UK will of course be a destination of choice if you speak English as a second language.

I am by no means saying just let them all in no matter what as the UK and in particular parts of England are very crowded already. As for charity begins at home well maybe although I consider the world my home and certainly Europe as the place I reside. Europe is wealthy enough to manage this and find a way to help that doesnt involve any one country getting saturated.

As for would I have one in my house? The honest answer is no but I wouldnt mind paying extra tax to house both our FAIR and sensible share of migrants and or course the homeless people of the UK. As far as I know there are no migrants heading to Teesdale but I wouldnt mind if there were. There would simply be nothing for them to do here. And of course it makes sense to put them somewhere where they may find work or be useful until its safe for them to go home again which I presume is what they would want.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Of course Barry and Jim are correct in that we should be caring about ALL those in need-I CARE ABOUT them. But the practicalities are that we cannot take in ALL those who need healthcare, education and housing so we must prioritise.

I';m on the side of Mr Plodd here- the local councils should be looking after their own homeless before taking in "foreigners". Where do we draw the line?

And I wonder, when and if peace comes to their homeland, will they be rushing back to Syria to resume life where they started??


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I would just like to throw in another little fact.

The U.K. is the FIFTH most populous Country IN THE WORLD, meaning we have the fifth highest number of people per square mile, and we are STILL having to let thousands more in from the EU (not refugees just those who fancy coming here) because that's what "the EU rules" are!!

Madness

Andy


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Did you mean "Population Density" Alan?
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-populous-countries.html

But even if you did , see this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density

which suggests we are well down the list


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

All services in UK are grossly overloaded. Just watched another bunch of unfortunates being evicted and join the ever lengthening waiting list for 'affordable' homes. 
Slight hickup in the NHS and hundreds of life giving opps are postponed again. Schools and transport are crammed to over capacity. 
I'm sure even Yorkshire and even Teeside have their overcrowding problems. 

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> All services in UK are grossly overloaded. Just watched another bunch of unfortunates being evicted and join the ever lengthening waiting list for 'affordable' homes.
> Slight hickup in the NHS and hundreds of life giving opps are postponed again. Schools and transport are crammed to over capacity.
> I'm sure even Yorkshire and even *Teeside* have their overcrowding problems.
> 
> Ray.


If you mean Teesdale Ray its nowhere near Teesside. Teesdale where I live is actually part of south western Durham County but I have a North Yorkshire address (figure that one out). It is actually the 5th least populated region in the UK with just 30 people per Square KM. So there is indeed plenty of room but not much to do unless you like rounding up sheep or shooting stuff.

There are sadly no cheap houses here either. So no good for first timers (unless they are wealthy) or migrants.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Well one of those places ooop there Barry. 

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

It is a problem

Balancing the needs of our people to the needs of others

I am an x social worker

And yes our homeless often are the so called dregs of society

But a society is measured by its care of those in need

It's humanity

And most people do not know the history of the drunk or drug taker they are judging and finding wanting

And I and you have never fled in terror of our lives taking with us our children

So yes humanity demands we accept these people, and protect them

And if not now, when?

Aldra


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

Jimblob44 said:


> . . . . The Syrian refugees aren't homeless for any of the reasons above, they are homeless, and now countryless because their homes have been bombed by the US, France,and many other countries including the Uk now. Sometimes I am ashamed of how insular and uncaring some of us can be. Jim.


I'm not that concerned with a lot of these so called 'refugees' . . There here or trying to get here for the benefits I and other working people have paid into all our working lives.
I want and expect this bunch of Tory ******* to help and look after our own homeless/poverty stricken/OAP's etc BEFORE giving charity elsewhere, but as a realist I know that's not going to happen.

As for implying WE bombed them out of their homes - what utter cr*p


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No there is a difference between economic refugees
And those fleeing for their life

And economic refugees I feel for but not enough to grant them asylum 

But as I said before

The genuine ones fleeing for life

Deserve our help

No question about it

They have the right to live, their kids have the right to live

just as ours have the the right to live

And they have the right to peace and safety

And if we can give that 

We give it

Aldra


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

vicdicdoc said:


> I want and expect this bunch of Tory ******* to help and look after our own homeless/poverty stricken/OAP's etc BEFORE giving charity elsewhere, but as a realist I know that's not going to happen


Do you really think Labour, the LibDems, SNP, Greens, PC or any other party, if in Government, would do anything differently - except maybe UKIP.

And resorting to name calling does nothing to help you put your argument across in an insightful way, it just demonstrates a political bias that has blindfolded you :frown2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

raynipper said:


> While we might have sympathy and want to care for refugees and the displaced. There are just too many in today's war torn world (mostly Middle East and Africa) for any group of countries to accommodate but a small percentage. Plus of course there is always the terrorist or martyr element to consider. The 'West' just can't accommodate them all without suffering even more overcrowding and overloaded services.
> 
> Ray.


My brother lives in the States. He says, when we discuss the problems here, that they have so much room over there. Why, he says, are they sending them all to your overcrowded country when the States has so much room?


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

*Why, he says, are they sending them all to your overcrowded country when the States has so much room?
*

Ask Donald TRump


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

There is even more room, money and the same religion in Saudi Arabia, Oman, the UAE, etc. Why are THEY not taking the refugees?!?!


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

siggie said:


> Do you really think Labour, the LibDems, SNP, Greens, PC or any other party, if in Government, would do anything differently - except maybe UKIP.
> 
> And resorting to name calling does nothing to help you put your argument across in an insightful way, it just demonstrates a political bias that has blindfolded you :frown2:


Like the majority of UK citizens -'Course I'm politically blindfolded - but I've peeped and discovered that the emperor's New clothes along with his "we're all in it together" DOESN'T include rich /Tory or poor in this country - why should we continue to dish out thousands,millions or billions when our own are in need.

My old dad always quoted his dad during and after the Great War "it's Tommie this & Tommie that . . .then when their no longer needed chuck them away & let them fend for themselves - or go street begging . . . well, I want a country that wants it's ex service men & women cared for, I want to know that the homeless, OAP's or disabled or those on/below the poverty line will be looked after -BEFORE zillions of £ are flung at overseas problems (how much of it actually reaches those it's intended for & how much Is pilfered away or ends up running some warlords mansion or fleet of expensive cars.


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## siggie (Oct 2, 2010)

vicdicdoc said:


> Like the majority of UK citizens -'Course I'm politically blindfolded - but I've peeped and discovered that the emperor's New clothes along with his "we're all in it together" DOESN'T include rich /Tory or poor in this country - why should we continue to dish out thousands,millions or billions when our own are in need.
> 
> My old dad always quoted his dad during and after the Great War "it's Tommie this & Tommie that . . .then when their no longer needed chuck them away & let them fend for themselves - or go street begging . . . well, I want a country that wants it's ex service men & women cared for, I want to know that the homeless, OAP's or disabled or those on/below the poverty line will be looked after -BEFORE zillions of £ are flung at overseas problems (how much of it actually reaches those it's intended for & how much Is pilfered away or ends up running some warlords mansion or fleet of expensive cars.


I have no idea why you quoted my post and then proceeded to write the above. Where in my post do I either support or otherwise the current immigration policy, I was simply challenging your apparent blaming of the situation on the current Government, as if they are the only ones that would act this way.

In case you forgot what you wrote let me remind you...

"_I want and expect this bunch of Tory ******* to help and look after our own homeless/poverty stricken/OAP's etc BEFORE giving charity elsewhere, but as a realist I know that's not going to happen._"

Why single out, in a deliberately offensive manner, a single party when we all know full well that any party (except probably UKIP) would be doing exactly the same thing if they were in power? Why not simply phrase you point as '_I want and expect any Government to help and look after our own homeless/poverty stricken/OAP's etc BEFORE giving charity elsewhere, but as a realist I know that's not going to happen_'?


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

He only wakes up after 11pm and NEVER responds to replies ............forget yet another troll :surprise:


tony


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