# Fiat's new puncture/spare wheel



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Hi everybody,

Last year we started looking at the new Bessacarr E795 with a view to exchanging our "old" E795. As we were looking we discovered the spare wheel was steel not alloy. Our present 2004 E795 has five alloys. We were told the 2008 models would not be available to view until early 2008. So I have been e-mailing the salesman to ask if the new models still had a steel spare wheel. I was shocked to be told the new models don't have a spare wheel at all??????? They have a Fiat puncture outfit/compessor in case of a puncture.

My questions are . . . . 1. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience of the puncture system Fiat employs.
2. Is it legal? I always thought that motor vehicles HAD to have a spare by law.
3. What happens if you have a major blow out as against a normal puncture.
I certainly wouldn't feel happy touring full time (as we do) with a puncture outfit my only means of getting going again in the back of beyond of some country we were visiting. At least with a spare wheel I could try and effect a repair. Remember I might be in an area that the mobile signal is NBG so can't summons assistance, although we do have full European/UK breakdown.

Anybody have any thoughts on this,

Cheers, Jeffus.

PS How the heck does the spell checker work on this forum. When I press SpellCheck all I get is a black box saying "php spell"????


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Jeffus

There's been loads of recent Posts on this (do a search on Ultraseal, spare wheel etc) It';s about payloads & a spare wheel weighs in at around 35kg. Not illegal but you'll probably find your breakdown people won't come out if you don't have a spare.

"Zebedee" seems to be the resident expert on the gadget that's suppplied and he'll tell you it's rubbish :lol: No doubt he'll be around in a minute! :wink:


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Thanks Telbell, looks like lots of reading there for me.

Jeffus.


----------



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Jeffus;

This is totally off topic but is this the same Jeffus that used to be on here in the early days of the forum ?

If so, nice to see you back again - where have you been hiding?

pete


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

*Hi peejay*



peejay said:


> Hi Jeffus;
> 
> This is totally off topic but is this the same Jeffus that used to be on here in the early days of the forum ?
> 
> ...


Hi peejay,

I'm flattered you remember me after so long. Yep, I am the same Jeffus. So good to hear from you too and to be back in the fold.

About four years ago we retired (wife and me) and decided to do what we always promised ourselves before we got too old, in a nutshell . . . . go fulltiming in a motorhome. Bought Jess (motorhome) and powered the house down and off. We just loved our new life (and friends) and after giving it a year knew this was for us. Long story short, we sold our house after 3 years (that was a year ago) and now are free as birds and still love our normadic life. Me being a Mac man missed my computer, so bought a MacBook Pro laptop and the reason I have been "hiding" is I am reliant on wifi hot spot connections. The site we are on at the mo has one. We are in the Loire Valley. We spend pretty much most of the year in Europe and it would be too expensive to have paid connection in the UK.

Thanks again for remembering us, peejay and I aim to stay in touch,

Jeffus.


----------



## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Great to hear from you again and regards to the missus and 'Jessica Bessacar' :wink: 

Better close now or the off topic police will be onto us :lol: 

pete


----------



## brandywine (Aug 28, 2007)

Tellbell wrote:

"Not illegal but you'll probably find your breakdown people won't come out if you don't have a spare."

Is this true? We've just dumped our spare because of weight and the difficulty of getting it out from its carrier. We have got Airseal in tyres though.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Almost certainly-check the small print in your Breakdown Policy


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Your a smart guy Telbell, respect.  

Jeffus.


----------



## andynkim (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi All
I am a member with Britania Rescue and I questioned this "having no spare issue" and was quoted if the vehicle was supplied without a spare new (i believe some Porshe and farari's have no spare) then no spare is required or expected and that I would be transported to the nearest tyre centre.

I have this is writing just in case.

cheers all.


----------



## Groper (May 17, 2007)

My insurers(Saga) say I must have a spare wheel for cover in event of punctures etc.

Clive


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> Your a smart guy Telbell, respect.


Thanks but not half as smart as most on this Forum! :wink:



> was quoted if the vehicle was supplied without a spare new (i believe some Porshe and farari's have no spare) then no spare is required or expected and that I would be transported to the nearest tyre


Now that's an interesting perspective! It may be worth trying to push other Companies down that route! Different thing transporting a Porsche compared to a 4ton m/home though?


----------



## andyman (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm sure no spare has been standard on some BMW's for years. I find it quite funny when someone says I might be stranded with no phone signal.
When I started driving hand held mobiles were a dream.


----------



## bobandjane (Dec 29, 2007)

We have a out the factory lpg/petrol car that came without a spare. We got one and never used it since we got it about 5 years ago. I had a lorry until 2 years ago and the trouble is when you have a blow out the tyre company come out with a crap tyre and charge you the earth for it ... you have no choice but you do now! bobandjane.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> When I started driving hand held mobiles were a dream.


and when I started a mobile was a cheap cardboard cut out shape that went round and round underneath a ceiling light bulb to help get the baby to sleep :lol:


----------



## 98316 (Mar 25, 2006)

Just had a mild panic attack when I saw this posting, we have the 2007 Model of the Bessacarr E495 which is built on the new chasis, does this have a spare wheel?? It has just occured to me that i've never noticed one (my only excuse is that we are a mother and daughter team and this just didn't cross our minds). Where would we find the spare wheel if there is such a thing. 

Also can anyone tell me whether or not this foam stuff they sell to fill your tyres with in event of a puncture is suitable for a motorhome or should that just be for cars. We do have the new Swift Breakdown recovery which we would use should we have a flat tyre as there is no way i'd be able to get the tyre off. 

Am now thinking of venturing out into the darkness armed with a torch to look for the spare tyre, but will await a reply first to see if anyone knows the answer. Sorry for hijacking the post but this seemed like a good place to ask.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Hi Travelbug
Firstly-this is an excellent place to ask!
As I understand it the foam-type stuff which is often supplied instead of spare tyres is "ok" but if used renders the tyre as incapable of repair. I'm hoping that zebedee-or someone-will confirm this.

I've no knowledghe of your vehicle or where they tyre may be if indeed it is supplied- could your dealer help? If not no doubt someone will be along on the Forum to help-possibly someone from Swift who contribuites to the site.


----------



## 109481 (Jan 25, 2008)

*Fiat Camper Service*

If you buy a Fiat chassis then you get 3 years Fiat Assistance across Europe which includes puncture repair/tyre replacement
What else could you wish for (more service from the insurance companies perhaps!)


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> you get 3 years Fiat Assistance across Europe which includes puncture repair/tyre replacement


Good point skimbo. And as it's Fiat who decided not to supply a spare wheel/tyre then there can't be any argument about not repairing or replacing tyre....presumably? :wink:

Travelbug: seen this??


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

andyman said:


> I'm sure no spare has been standard on some BMW's for years. I find it quite funny when someone says I might be stranded with no phone signal.
> When I started driving hand held mobiles were a dream.


andyman, when I started driving they were still inventing the original telephone.  BUT this is today when mobiles are just expected and so become normal travel gear. We full time so the only telephone I own is a mobile. That's what progress is all about. I still maintain in an emergency situation and I need assistance the mobile would be the first thing I would reach for.

Jeffus.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

TravelBug said:


> Just had a mild panic attack when I saw this posting, we have the 2007 Model of the Bessacarr E495 which is built on the new chasis, does this have a spare wheel?? It has just occured to me that i've never noticed one (my only excuse is that we are a mother and daughter team and this just didn't cross our minds). Where would we find the spare wheel if there is such a thing.


Hi TravelBug,

On our Bessacarr E795 the spare wheel is slung outside under the rear overhang in a metal cradle. I understand you can get one fitted now as an extra. I read on this thread someone said this is cost cutting by Swift. I wholeheartedly agree.

Jeffus.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Telbell said:


> > you get 3 years Fiat Assistance across Europe which includes puncture repair/tyre replacement
> 
> 
> And as it's Fiat who decided not to supply a spare wheel/tyre then there can't be any argument about not repairing or replacing tyre....presumably? :wink:


Good point TelBell, but WILL they. I still would really like the backup of a spare if I'm in trouble with a puncture when in the wilds of Europe. I don't like the idea of my Euro breakdown sevice not being interested in coming out unless I have a spare. You can be certain I will opt for a spare fitted if we go ahead with buying a 2008 model.

Jeffus.

I'm editing this post as I have experience of this foamy stuff. Many years ago I had a puncture on a rather large touring motorbike. I used this stuff to "repair" the puncture. Not only did it make such a mess that the tyre was unusable AND IT DIDN'T REPAIR THE PUNCTURE !!!!!


----------



## glacier (Jun 24, 2006)

It's not illegal to have no spare wheel, only to have a defective one - same applies when having an MOT. So if you have a bald or sub-standard spare remove it before the MOT.

SHMBO has a VW Touran that has no spare wheel. It came with an emergency repair kit, that went walkies on the car's last service with the VW dealer before it was out of its 3 yr warranty - they wanted £120 for the replacement compressor and the injectable gunk. The kit/stuff supplied originally by VW makes the tyre unusable/irreparable after its use. This stuff doesn't and is only £16 for compressor and sealant.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SLIME-TYRE-RE...LATOR-KIT_W0QQitemZ360026449249QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## Koppersbeat (May 10, 2005)

*Fiats new puncture/spare wheel*

Hi Jeffus,
I think the issue is more if Fiat Assist can locate a matching tyre,as mentioned in a previous thread. We have now purchased a spare tyre from an online retailer and stored it in the double floor.
I contacted 3 tyre companies first for a price and they all said the Michelin Camping tyre was not held in stock and it would be 2 or 3 days to get one in.
Imagine being on the ring road of Prague waiting for Fiat Assist to turn up with the goods !!
Helen.


----------



## wobby (May 1, 2005)

My new Carthago Chic would have been without a spare had I not included it it the extra's list.

That being the case if I do have a flat the spare is positioned dead centre under the van. With the new super low alko chassis impossible to reach without jacking the vehicle up! but I won't be crawling under van supported by a scissors jack, so that was a waste of money. I am going to take advise from Zebadee and have ultraseal solution injected into the tyre's

Wobby


----------



## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

My 11 month old Fiat has a spare wheel. But, it is a french 'van. This appears to be the converters running out of payload rather than a Fiat problem.


----------



## Waggy (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Fiats new puncture/spare wheel*



Koppersbeat said:


> We have now purchased a spare tyre from an online retailer and stored it in the double floor. Helen.


I was considering this (except that I don't have a double floor  ) Could find room in the garage though

What would be the weight saving as compared with a complete (steel) wheel and tyre? This for me is the most important aspect


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> This stuff doesn't and is only £16 for compressor and sealant.


Confused now (not difficult :roll: )

Should this stuff be carried around even if you've been "Ultra-sealed"??


----------



## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi. There have been a number of responses in this thread quoting "this foamy stuff." I don't know which product this refers to but I suspect it is not Ultraseal. I have used this product for many years, including the tyres of my Honda Goldwing motorcycle, and only have praise for it. This product is injected into the tyre in pre-determined quantities dependant upon tyre size. This can be done either on a DIY basis (although you will need to completely reinflate the tyre once the valve is back in) or can be carried out by one of the many Ultraseal agents around the UK, many of whom are happy to come to your home. A number of tyre fitting specialists are also agents for this product. A word of advice is to take the vehicle for a short run after installation in order to allow the sealant to spread around the tread area. Ignore any sense of the wheels being unbalanced during this run......it is only the sealant spreading around the inner tread of the tyre (this is a one-off operation). Contrary to some statements, Ultraseal will not damage the tyre. Any maintenance of the tyre (i.e. permanent repair) only requires the sealant to be washed out with water. Ultraseal is extremely effective in sealing punctures almost instantly and with virtually no pressure loss. It is, however, only effective on punctures within the tread area of the tyre and NOT the tyre wall. A sealed puncture will be visible upon inspection of the tyre. I hasten to add that I have no connections with Ultraseal or its agents.......just someone who personally swears by it.


----------



## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

When me bought a new Autotrail Apache last year it was without said spare so I bought the spare as an extra. We felt happier with a spare, simple as that.
Weight of steel wheel and tyre, 25 kgs, cost 192 pounds.


----------



## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

When me bought a new Autotrail Apache last year it was without said spare so I bought the spare as an extra. We felt happier with a spare, simple as that.
Weight of steel wheel and tyre, 25 kgs, cost 192 pounds.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

*Re: Fiats new puncture/spare wheel*



Koppersbeat said:


> I contacted 3 tyre companies first for a price and they all said the Michelin Camping tyre was not held in stock and it would be 2 or 3 days to get one in.
> Imagine being on the ring road of Prague waiting for Fiat Assist to turn up with the goods !! Helen.


Exactly the point Helen,

Cheers, Jeffus.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

monkton said:


> Hi. There have been a number of responses in this thread quoting "this foamy stuff." I don't know which product this refers to but I suspect it is not Ultraseal. I have used this product for many years, including the tyres of my Honda Goldwing motorcycle, and only have praise for it. This product is injected into the tyre in pre-determined quantities dependant upon tyre size. This can be done either on a DIY basis (although you will need to completely reinflate the tyre once the valve is back in) or can be carried out by one of the many Ultraseal agents around the UK, many of whom are happy to come to your home. A number of tyre fitting specialists are also agents for this product. A word of advice is to take the vehicle for a short run after installation in order to allow the sealant to spread around the tread area. Ignore any sense of the wheels being unbalanced during this run......it is only the sealant spreading around the inner tread of the tyre (this is a one-off operation). Contrary to some statements, Ultraseal will not damage the tyre. Any maintenance of the tyre (i.e. permanent repair) only requires the sealant to be washed out with water. Ultraseal is extremely effective in sealing punctures almost instantly and with virtually no pressure loss. It is, however, only effective on punctures within the tread area of the tyre and NOT the tyre wall. A sealed puncture will be visible upon inspection of the tyre. I hasten to add that I have no connections with Ultraseal or its agents.......just someone who personally swears by it.


Hi monkton,

Really sorry to have to disagree with you on this one. The foamy stuff I used on my motorbike WAS Ultraseal it's printed indelibly on my brain. I had to push the ailing motorbike home and with a flat front tyre . . . you do tend to remember things like that. I remember thinking I'm not going anywhere near this stuff again. It was the late 70's and at the time I remember the hype and all motorcyclists thinking what a god send it was but I can't remember any reading any good reports about it. I thought it had faded from view as just another gimmick. So I was quite suprised when TelBell pointed out (2nd post, this thread) that a lot had already been said about . . . Ultaseal. I can tell you that my bike tyre was a right off and there was noway on God's earth you could wash it off, it was like a white glue. Oh! and btw the puncture wasn't on the wall of the tyre it was a normal tread puncture. You sure you don't work for 'em? :wink:

Jeffus.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Jeffus

Is it possible that Ultraseal has improved/been refined over the past 30 years?

Reason I ask that is that there are many on the Forum, like Monkton, who have use Ultraseal "with success".

Having said that -how does one know if it has been successful- unless there has been an identifiable blow-out or puncture where Ultraseal has in some way proved its worth??


----------



## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

No problem regarding you having to disagree with me Jeffus. That was your experience of Ultraseal way back in the late 70's and I can't argue with that. My comments were based upon my experiences, and those of others, of this product in recent years. I wished that I had the technical know-how to transfer a pic that was posted on a motorcycle site I use. The pic was taken by a fellow Goldwing rider who had been touring Scotland about two years ago. Whilst travelling at night, he hit a deep pothole when he was doing about 65 mph. He had immediately noticed some slackness in his steering but managed to bring the bike to a halt. On inspection, he found that the rim of the front alloy wheel had cracked and that the wheel was distorted. Despite this, the tyre sealant had effectively closed down the 75 mm length crack, enabling him to bring the bike to a safe halt. That sealant was Ultraseal. Now before you humourously suggest it again.......no, I have NO connections with this company. All this said, it may be of interest to members to note that there has apparently been a falling out between Ultraseal USA and its UK import partner to the extent that no supplies have been shipped into the UK since October 07 (I found this out only today). No new UK importer has yet been appointed. Several of the companies previously dealing with the Ultraseal product have now moved on to an alternative called Seal-a-Wheel although I believe that stocks of Ultraseal may still be available in the shops, etc.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Telbell said:


> Jeffus
> 
> Is it possible that Ultraseal has improved/been refined over the past 30 years?
> 
> ...


Yes, it did cross my mind TelBell that the product may have been improved. Good thinking but I'm still not using it or relying on it in my motorhome.

Jeffus.


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

monkton said:


> No problem regarding you having to disagree with me Jeffus. That was your experience of Ultraseal way back in the late 70's and I can't argue with that.


Hi monkton,

Thanks for your valued input on this theme. One thing puzzles me though. You talk as if the Ultraseal product was already in your mates tyre. Just to clarify, when I used it way back I had to inject it into the tyre AFTER the puncture. I think that is what Fiat's repair and go is supposed to work like. Whatever, glad your mate managed to wrestle his Wing to a halt and if Ultraseal was the stuff that saved him, one up to them. I tell you again though I certainly ain't gonna trust it on my 4¼ ton motorhome.

Cheers, Jeffus.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Jeffus- no doubt Monkton will clarify but certainly the modern version of Ultraseal is injected prior to use so as to preevent puncture/blow out etc
THis is where it differs from the Fiat kit.

Zebedee....where are you??? Come & reassure Jeffus :wink: :lol:


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Telbell said:


> Jeffus- no doubt Monkton will clarify but certainly the modern version of Ultraseal is injected prior to use so as to preevent puncture/blow out etc
> THis is where it differs from the Fiat kit.


Hi TelBell,

Now I'm really getting confused. If as you say Ultraseal is indeed put in the tyre BEFORE a puncture am I right in thinking that it's not Ultraseal that is used in the Fiat kit? If it isn't, what is it then? The other thing that goes through my mind is if you have a puncture and you have Ultraseal in your tyre how do you know you have a puncture? Do you drive round blissfully unawares that a bit of chewing gum is plugging the hole in your tyre? Very worrying indeed if so.

Jeffus.

Edit, so zebedee is still with us, that's great.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

> am I right in thinking that it's not Ultraseal that is used in the Fiat kit?


Jeffus- correct!!

Re the other query you have: I honestly don't know! More than a bit of chewing gum I think! That'swhy i'd like Zebedee or some other experienced Ultraseal User to come on and tell us


----------



## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi Chaps. Just to confirm, Ultraseal (and trade named products of similar chemical composition) is injected into the tyre and is designed to seal punctures (up to 6mm diameter) as they occur. The Fiat product is an 'after-puncture' sealant and comes with a 12V compressor to re-inflate the tyre once the sealant has been injected. Several car manufacturers now use this system instead of a spare wheel (one being Volvo). There are several trade named products for both pre-puncture and post-puncture situations, such as Ultraseal, PunctureSeal, Seal-A-Wheel, Puncture Safe, and even one called Slime!
With both the pre-puncture and post-puncture products, the location of the puncture is identified by the colour of the product on curing. This colour varies dependant upon the product....some are pink, others green, etc. 
The pre-puncture sealants are designed to seal a puncture 'for the normal life of the tyre' and as such the tyre requires no further attention. The only variation to this is where the foreign body (glass, metal, etc) has worked into the tyre and damaged the internal tyre surface. In this latter case, the product will still minimise the risk of losing control (a blow-out) by allowing for a slow and controlled deflation.
In all cases, the sealant contains rubber fibres that bond with the tyre at the point of the puncture.
I mentioned above that there had been problems with the supply of Ultraseal from the USA. I can now confirm that a company called Puncture Safe are now manufacturing their own product under the trade name of PunctureSafe which, I am given to understand, has been tested and continues to be used for the entire Royal Mail fleet, including their HGV's. If you want to speak to someone personally, call Adam Baker of Ultraseal UK on 0870 240 1280.
Hope this helps.


----------



## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

Bump....to get this up to the top, hopefully


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

monkton said:


> Bump....to get this up to the top, hopefully


It worked. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This might be totally academic as the motorhome salesman has just phoned me, I'm in France at the mo. To inform me he can't get hold of a 2008 E795 for me to view, we are on the ferry 12th March to view one!!!!! As I said how on earth am I expected to buy if I can't view (he can show me a 2007 which I have already seen). Oh bums, life is never straight forward.  

Jeffus.

PS put me down for the Slime.


----------



## monkton (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi Jeffus,
Sorry to hear about your disappointment with the viewing. It's a bummer..................Yep, Slime sounds good for you :lol:


----------



## grumpyman (Sep 24, 2006)

Below is the post around punctures and Ultraseal which includes a company who supply the product. I it appears a common theme where people are getting confused with prevention and temporary cure. Ultraseal is there to prevent and then you have your cheap Tyre weld etc to get you to a Tyre depo when you have a puncture. Tyre weld costs a tenner Ultraseal around £25. I have just had Ultraseal installed in my Motorhome coming highly recommended by my Tyre fitter who did not sell it me and installed it for a drink. Please read the QA on the web page before passing comments about what it does not do. You will also see i negotiated a discount for bulk purchase for MHF but nobody that matters has come back to me to see what we could do for members.
http://www.ultraseal.swiftlysorted.co.uk/_sgg/m6_1.htm

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-378680.html#378680


----------



## Jeffus (May 1, 2005)

Hi grumpyman,

Well ther you go. I use Ultra Seals tyre monitors, have a set fitted on my M/H as we speak. Never associated them with the foamy stuff. Eh! you live and learn. Thanks for the links. Getting a bit late now (vino collapso calling) but tomorrow I will explore your links, many thanks for the info.

Jeffus.


----------



## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

Well done Monkton & Grumpyman for coming up with the goods!

Grumpyman- I'll certainly be up for the "bulk buy" business- I await deliverty of my new Fleurette (withhout Spare of course!) so in due course will need it.

As there seem to be so many vehciles now supplied without spare wheels (and not just Motorhomes) I wonder how Breakdown Companies can continue to refuse to "recover" such vehicles as part of their T&C??-especially if said vehicles have Ultraseal etc etc


----------



## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi
What's the position in Spain,where you are supposed to carry a spare wheel?
We have had to change our choice of m/home over this point,so would appreciate some info on this matter.
Jented


----------



## mrpastry (Dec 4, 2009)

Telbell said:


> Well done Monkton & Grumpyman for coming up with the goods!
> 
> Grumpyman- I'll certainly be up for the "bulk buy" business- I await deliverty of my new Fleurette (withhout Spare of course!) so in due course will need it.
> 
> As there seem to be so many vehciles now supplied without spare wheels (and not just Motorhomes) I wonder how Breakdown Companies can continue to refuse to "recover" such vehicles as part of their T&C??-especially if said vehicles have Ultraseal etc etc


 My better harlf has a car with no spare, when she got a split tyre the AA came out no problem, We also have a MH that came with no spare, just a bottle of stuff and a compressor, no good to man or beat, the dealer quoted £700 plus to fit a rack and spare wheel!! i just went out and brought a spare cost me £200 and we keep it on broad in the garage. Bill


----------



## trevd01 (Oct 26, 2007)

What's with all these ancient threads being posted to all of a sudden? That's a couple this week. I have difficulty keeping up with the recent ones.

Maybe its the new design/improved search facility???


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

I always thought that any repair to a punctured tyre had to meet a British standard that stipulated a mushroom type headed plug?? these sealant thingies cant do that.

I could be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time !!


----------

