# bad driving !!!!!!



## steuys (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi All

didnt know where to put this so here goes.
i was driving along yesterday on the a
A 82 through glen coe heading south,i was sitting at 50mph not slow not fast but fast enough for the narrow road it is,my point is whoever it was that overtook me nearly running me of the road in the process needs to sort themselves out oh yes if you are wondering folks they were in a motorhome !!!! very very angry 

stu


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

Hi Stu
It certainly wasn't me I'm sat at work! However, where was it? I've been up & down that bit a fair amount & would say there are very few places where I would class as either "narrow" or indeed "dangerous". In fact, quite the opposite (in my opinion), much of the stretch has good visibility with ample overtaking opportunity.

I'm honestly not trying to cause an argument, you were sat there I wasn't, but at 50mph, if someone was wanting to come past, did you see them, pop your left blinker on come out of the throttle etc, or did you not really notice them?

Or in fact, were they really just a plonker overtaking at one of the very few dangerous spots on the road, in which case you're right, they are stupid!

Keep on truckin'!


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi Stu

The other point is if you were doing 50mph you were driving to the speed limit and any Mhome, white van overtaking you was breaking it.

Jan


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

bozzer said:


> Hi Stu
> 
> The other point is if you were doing 50mph you were driving to the speed limit and any Mhome, white van overtaking you was breaking it.
> 
> Jan


Not unless they've changed the limit since I last went over - it was national limit (60mph assuming you're in a 3050kg unladen van or less). Looking at Stu's avatar, he may well have been at the limit for his vehicle, that doesn't necessarily mean what overtook him was.


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

Alfa_Scud said:


> bozzer said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Stu
> ...


Speed limit is set for cars and "car derived vans" everything else whether laden or unladen has a lower speed limit motorhomes are classed as vans unles form an escort van style car which you would be hard pushed to call a motorhome! any vehicle that is not classed as a car or car derived van has the following speed limits on the specific roads (that are not over 3500kg gvw) single carriageway-50mph dual carriageway - 60mph motorway-70mph.
obviously vehicles over 3500kg are further reduced in their speed limits on our highways.
i guess the person in OP was a plonker, but it happens all the time , there have been numerous daily occasions that transit vans and the like are breaking the speed limits of the road they are travelling on , totally oblivious to the speed limits for their particular vehicle.


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

stevian said:


> Speed limit is set for cars and "car derived vans" everything else whether laden or unladen has a lower speed limit motorhomes are classed as vans unles form an escort van style car which you would be hard pushed to call a motorhome! any vehicle that is not classed as a car or car derived van has the following speed limits on the specific roads (that are not over 3500kg gvw) single carriageway-50mph dual carriageway - 60mph motorway-70mph.
> obviously vehicles over 3500kg are further reduced in their speed limits on our highways.
> i guess the person in OP was a plonker, but it happens all the time , there have been numerous daily occasions that transit vans and the like are breaking the speed limits of the road they are travelling on , totally oblivious to the speed limits for their particular vehicle.


Not true *SEE HERE* for a VOSA statement relating to "motor caravans". Remember the weight I'm talking about is 3050kg "unladen" so it's irrelevant what the GVW is so as it's 3050 kg unladen i.e. in running order for the road but excluding tools, knives forks spoons etc. so speeds are the same as for cars.

But he could still have been a plonker overtaking in a dangerous spot but not speeding


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

I don't believe you're right on that Stevian. I thought it was driven by 3050kg unladen (nothing to do with 3500kg laden)...below that and a motorhome has same speed limits as cars - i.e. 60/70/70, above that it's 50/60/70 (single/dual/motorway).

Given I wouldn't fancy doing an overtaking maneouvre at only 10mph more than Stu's Euramobil going 50, chances are the other motorhome was, ahem, putting his foot down.

Edit : beat me to it Alfa!


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi

The Department for Transport states all vans and goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, except car chassis modified vans with laden weight of less than 2 tonnes have speed limits of 60mph on dual carriage way and 50mph on single carriageway.

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/vanspeedlimits.html

The above is where I read this.

If Motorhomes do not fit into this category then there must be other speed limits specific for them but as we are basically modified vans I presumed these are the speed limits.

Jan


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't know the circumstances but I do know the road. If I wanted to go past a slower vehicle I would do so. If someone wants to go past me I will cooperate with them.

The only time someone overtaking me bothers me is if it is dangerous. Their speed is not my business, Alan.


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

Rosbotham said:


> I don't believe you're right on that Stevian. I thought it was driven by 3050kg unladen (nothing to do with 3500kg laden)...below that and a motorhome has same speed limits as cars - i.e. 60/70/70, above that it's 50/60/70 (single/dual/motorway).
> 
> Given I wouldn't fancy doing an overtaking maneouvre at only 10mph more than Stu's Euramobil going 50, chances are the other motorhome was, ahem, putting his foot down.
> 
> Edit : beat me to it Alfa!


I beg to differ! sorry! a motorhonme cannot be classed as a car or car derived van when on a van chassis! see the post one or two down from your reply to me


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

stevian said:


> Rosbotham said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe you're right on that Stevian. I thought it was driven by 3050kg unladen (nothing to do with 3500kg laden)...below that and a motorhome has same speed limits as cars - i.e. 60/70/70, above that it's 50/60/70 (single/dual/motorway).
> ...


and its 2000 kg laden!!!


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## BrianJP (Sep 17, 2010)

Certainly looks as though motorcaravans are specifically excluded from the Van etc. speed regs as long as they are under 3050kg which is what we all thought anyway.
Thing about the speed is though is its not compulsory to drive at the speed limit eg 60mph . Its often more comfortable especially on twisty single carriageway roads to drive under that limit when you are driving a 3 ton plus vehicle thats wallowing around .


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## stevian (Aug 12, 2009)

Alfa_Scud said:


> stevian said:
> 
> 
> > Speed limit is set for cars and "car derived vans" everything else whether laden or unladen has a lower speed limit motorhomes are classed as vans unles form an escort van style car which you would be hard pushed to call a motorhome! any vehicle that is not classed as a car or car derived van has the following speed limits on the specific roads (that are not over 3500kg gvw) single carriageway-50mph dual carriageway - 60mph motorway-70mph.
> ...


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## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm not going to get into an argument, but to be fair you having an operators license doesn't automatically mean you're correct. 

You're right when you say that the site isn't a VOSA site, however, the statement is from Steve Whitehart at VOSA clarifying the fact that the speeds are related to "Motor Caravans" as I said, not van etc.

The speeds (for 3050kg unladen) ARE 60/70/70. Fine, drive slower if you wish, but they are the limits.


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Alfa_Scud said:


> The speeds (for 3050kg unladen) ARE 60/70/70. Fine, drive slower if you wish, but they are the limits.


Quite. Some drivers think they are targets, not limits.

SD


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Motorhomes and speed*

 wouldn't mind betting he had an Italian plate. As we speak I know of at least 35 Camperonline members who are trundling around Scotland. Probably at least twice that number in reality. 50 m.p.h. (80 Km. p.h.) is a parking up speed for the average Italian motorhomer.
saluti,
eddied


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

For anyone who is now confused over the speed limits :roll: here you will find the UK speed limits in an east to read PDF format:

Download PDF <<

an Extract from the PDF:


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## bozzer (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi

Firstly sorry to the OP for taking this off topic and it becoming a speed limit discussion.

I have been concerned that there are 2 sources of speed limits giving different information. VOSA and Dept. for Transport. I note VOSA gives a disclaimer on its website whereas DfT does not.

I shall be looking into this and attempting to get the definitive answer and if so will post. Until that time we'll be using DfT limits.

Jan


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I too am sorry that the thread has gone a little off topic but it is important to make sure that the correct information is posted.

My previous post gave an easy to read version of the speed limits but for those who like to see the letter of the law here is the link to 
Legislation <<.

Mike


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

stevian said:


> not true??? that link is not from VOSA!
> I have an operators licence and there are conflicting regulations but quite clear on speed limits relating to vehicle weights.


You're evidently worried about trusting secondary sources, so I'll attempt to go back to the horse's mouth.

I'm not a lawyer, and motor regulation isn't my thing (ask me a question on telecoms regulation, I may be better!). However, as I understand it the relevant legislation is the Road Traffic Act 1984. You'll see in Clauses 84 and 85 of Part IV that the secretary of state has the right to impose speed limits and has to erect signs saying what they are. In Clause 86, that certain classes of vehicles have specific speed limits imposed.

Schedule 6 sets out these classes, and the associated limits. You'll see that the first item is motorhomes (well, "motorcaravans"...hate that term!) of greater than 3050kg unladen, setting out the 70/60/50 limit I gave earlier. If you then scroll down to item 5, this is the one covering vans. It very specifically refers to "goods vehicles". A motorcaravan is not a goods vehicle, as this is described by the Road Traffic Act 1998 Section 192, which says that a goods vehicle :

_"goods vehicle" means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted,

"carriage of goods" includes the haulage of goods_

As such, a motorhome of <3.05 tonnes doesn't fall into the first clause of Sched 6 because it isn't above 3.05 tonnes, and doesn't fall into the 5th clause because it's not covered by the definition of goods vehicle. QED it isn't covered by Schedule 6, so standard speed limits apply.

Hope this helps...sorry it's obtuse but that's the way English law works.

Caveat again, I'm not a lawyer but my conclusions align with the secondary sources of information cited on this thread.

Paul


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Forgive me

a mere woman :wink: :wink:

But what has speed to do with the original post?

You can drive irresponsibly without speeding

Can't you?

Aldra


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## xgx (Oct 14, 2005)

aldra said:


> a mere woman :wink: :wink:
> 
> Aldra


Not related to Aleksandr by any chance?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Could be :wink: :wink: 

Aldra


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Gosh,
so for 20 years or so every white van in the country has been exceeding the speed limit.

Q. Which vans meet the criteria to be considered car derived vans for speed limit purposes?
A. Very few vans will meet the criteria to benefit from the same speed limits as a car. Those that do are likely to be similar to a Ford Fiesta van ,Vauxhall Corsa or Renault Clio van in having maximum payloads of around 500kgs so that when combined with the weight of the vehicle unladen (normally around 1.4 tonnes) the maximum laden weight of the whole vehicle will not exceed 2 tonnes.

*What this means is that vans such as the Ford Transit and (and of course the larger panel vans) will not meet the definition of car derived vans set out set out in part IV section 2 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Therefore these vehicles will be subject to speed limits of 50mph on single carriageways and 60 mph on dual carriageways.*

If all white van men drove at 50 mph on single cariageways we would be having more accidents with following drivers becomming frustrated and overtaking in dangerouse spots.
Dave p


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Unless the OP has already made allowance for the universal over-reading of speedometers, then the true speed was probably more like 47mph. If I come across another vehicle doing that sort of speed on a straight piece of road and assuming that the national speed limit applies and that it is safe to do so, then I will overtake be it in my motorhome or my car.


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## jonegood (Nov 5, 2007)

As an experienced MH er and class 1 LGV driver, I think there are too many people like the OP who see themselves as Nanny s of the road.

If someones trying to overtake - I let them go, so what if they re going faster than I think they should, if they re in front of me they re not going to run into me are they.


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## dikyenfo (Feb 16, 2008)

That is exactly why in France you now need to display the speed limits [lower this year than UK] on the rear and a different set if you have a trailer or car behind you via, any hitch. Also you can bet that it will be here any time because the dreaded white van man has screwed it for the rest of us. Also noted that for mthe first time ever in 16 years the French are obeying limits as never before - even white van man.
The guy concerner will no doubt have an account with Mirrorman for ready replacements. Hi Hi. :lol:


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## jayboy (Mar 9, 2008)

I don't know the road that the OP is talking about.......
but I would have overtaken him :lol:


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## Rosbotham (May 4, 2008)

peribro said:


> Unless the OP has already made allowance for the universal over-reading of speedometers, then the true speed was probably more like 47mph. If I come across another vehicle doing that sort of speed on a straight piece of road and assuming that the national speed limit applies and that it is safe to do so, then I will overtake be it in my motorhome or my car.


Yes but national speed limit with your 4 tonne van on that stretch is 50mph, not 60. So you'd be overtaking him at 3mph faster. Unless you're going to inch over the speed limit to do it, and you wouldn't do that would you? :wink:


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*coperate*



erneboy said:


> I don't know the circumstances but I do know the road. If I wanted to go past a slower vehicle I would do so. If someone wants to go past me I will cooperate with them.
> 
> The only time someone overtaking me bothers me is if it is dangerous. Their speed is not my business, Alan.


Correct.

If only everyone took that same attitude.

Rather than do what my Brother-In-Law does, something more dangerous.

If someone tries to overtake him. he accelerates.

TM


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## mrbricolage (Jun 30, 2008)

There's not enough information here to make a judgement here but here are my assumptions:

There are 2 parties involved in this incident. Firstly the overtaker who probably misjudged the gap involved thus causing him to come in early and also a misjudgment of the length of his vehicle.

Secondly the overtaken (OP in this case). Being on the road means driving with consideration for others around you. If you are being overtaken be prepared to slow so that the person overtaking can complete the maneuver safely, such as slowing down for a moment. When travelling slower than other traffic watching your mirrors for other traffic is especially important. 

It also means being prepared for every eventuality. Clearly the OP wasn't! I would say both parties are at fault here.

There are many instances of bad driving but some are aggrevated by accelerating when overtaking or other competitive behaviour. Hope that wasnt the case. 

I would like to see the other persons point of view.


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