# Loads of little holes in roof from damp check prongs?



## Snunkie

When we had our habitation check done by mmc services, he poked the damp checker prongs anywhere and everywhere through the actual roof and it has left numerous twin holes everywhere inside our roof. Is this normal procedure? It makes me angry every time I see the holes! I've used a damp meter before and was advised to placed in between seals and gaps, I was never told to actually make holes through the lining.

What's normal procedure in your experience?


----------



## Charisma

Our Dealer uses a damp meter that does NOT have prongs on it so no visible damage at all.

I think it is only 'cheap' damp meters that have prongs.

Dave


----------



## 100127

Had mine done by Steve at MMC, and I can't find any pin pricks. First class job.

Blobsta


----------



## Snunkie

Blobsta said:


> Had mine done by Steve at MMC, and I can't find any pin pricks. First class job.
> 
> Blobsta


Yep Steve did mine too, saw him do it but was too embarrassed to comment at the time. It justs seems and odd, disruptive thing to do as it's left these horrible holes everywhere


----------



## 100127

Snunkie said:


> Blobsta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had mine done by Steve at MMC, and I can't find any pin pricks. First class job.
> 
> Blobsta
> 
> 
> 
> Yep Steve did mine too, saw him do it but was too embarrassed to comment at the time. It justs seems and odd, disruptive thing to do as it's left these horrible holes everywhere
Click to expand...

Unusual, as he is meticulous over every detail. He even picked up I had a wrong rated fuse for the solar panels.

Bob


----------



## erneboy

I wouldn't consider damaging the van to be acceptable at all. The very least he should have done was warn you the he would leave holes all over the place and give you the option of not having the check carried out where damage would be visible. 

As already said I think there are damp meters which won't cause damage. Certainly any time my vans have been checked there has been no visible damage, Alan.


----------



## cabby

well I certainly would not accept that sort of shoddy workmanship on my van. will cross them off my list. Have you complained, or just sat there and accepted the situation.

cabby

ps. why was he on the roof doing a damp check anyway.


----------



## Snunkie

The trouble is cabby, I paid £250 for a Hab service as he was recommended on here, but I paid more than others as he had further to come. He answered all my questions and I found him very knowledgable. However, since he came my 12v sockets no longer turn off with the 12v option and I was extremely miffed at the final cost which was the £250 for the Hab service plus another £200 for 4 sockets fitted 2 X 12v and 2 x 240v. 1 12v was on its own but the other sockets were in a row. I actually spent the entire day in the van with Steve, pushing rods and wires through, removing and replacing panels and helping him test sockets and every time i asked how much the sockets would cost he kept saying 'not that much'. I could see the CBE sockets were £8.99 to buy is I figured that plus his labour would be around £20-£25 per socket so was pretty shocked when he charged me £50 per socket. Especially as 3 were in a row with one lot of wiring going through which I was on my hands and knees poking through! So anyway we had a bit of a text argument after that once my husband got home and said 'how much to put a [email protected]@dy socket in?!' So I didn't want to start on about the holes too. But when Steve was doing it I was inwardly wincing at the prongs being pushed through the ceiling lining but thinking I guess he knows what he's doing. Bit gutted looking at them now. They are everywhere!


----------



## Snunkie

Here you go. There are about 20 pairs of these holes in my roof!


----------



## Jamsieboy

Lots of places use the damp meters with prongs BUT most would be hidden under a rubber seal around the windows or in high level cupboards. I have a couple in my roof adjacent to the roof lights and to be honest unless you are inspecting the roof lining looking for them they are not that visible IMHO.


----------



## Mrplodd

Totally inexcusable!!

I would be asking for details of his public liability insurance to make a claim on. 

No one in their right mind would expect a "professional"? To cause any sort of damage whilst carrying out such a task.


----------



## cabby

Have a word with the Burstner dealer and get a quote for a new headlining and send Steve the invoice. Charges are not far short of what I paid a proper dealership to fit extras for me.

cabby

I have used 2 dealers for damp check and also a check done on another family members van, none of them suffered this problem.


----------



## aldra

Find this post worrying

Maybe Steve could explain why

He surely isn't setting out to damage MH

Or to overcharge

Aldra


----------



## Snunkie

Wish I could post the pics successfully to show you? Any other way of posting them? 

There is a pair of holes at every corner of every roof light, vent etc, about 1" from the edge and along the edges too.

I was surprised when I watched him do it, but then I thought what do I know about damp testing, maybe this is the norm? But laying in bed I can see all these flamin holes!


----------



## Snunkie

Cabby - inside not outside! Holes in my inside ceiling


----------



## Snunkie




----------



## Wizzo

That's disgraceful. I have a damp meter with prongs and the instructions clearly state that the prongs are not to be pushed into the material being tested.

JohnW


----------



## Snunkie

What do I do guys? He's not going to do anything about it now is he? I wish I'd said something at the time! So cross with myself. Why would he do that though? A lot of people use him, it can't have just happened to us?


----------



## Snunkie




----------



## Snunkie

Whoops that roof vent needs a bit of a clean!


----------



## Snunkie

I'm so angry that I didn't say anything at the time but I didn't want to look like a right idiot as for all I know that may have been the only way to damp test

:evil:


----------



## Techno100

Clearly no justification for visibly damaging the van, no excuses can undo that .
In fact if there is going to be damp at all it would be near as possible to the openings cut in the panels for the skylights not inches away in no mans land FFS


----------



## Penquin

Totally unacceptable IMO.

The concept of the damp test is to see if electrical conductivity between the probes can be established - if it can then water must be present as it conducts the electricity.

BUT there is no need to puncture anything indeed the meter that I used specifically said NOT to as it makes the reading unreliable since the surface MAY have conductive property material within it....

However well recommended the tester may have been this is poor practice and he should be asked to make good ALL the damage he caused.

The charge for fitting extra sockets is about what has been reported elsewhere on here so challenging that would be difficult - the price per socket should have been agreed in advance, and a total for the work agreed.

But no other damage should be caused to the vehicle by work being done.

Get an alternative expert report of what the damage is, how extensive it is and how it would have to be repaired and then consider a small claims court case to recover the costs if he is not willing to correct the damage.

If that was the norm, then after five years of compulsory habitation checks including damp testing, the whole vehicle would be pickled with holes and they WOULD be clearly evident..........

Dave


----------



## Techno100

The more I look at the pictures the more horrified I am :x


----------



## Wizzo

My suggestion is that you make him aware you are not happy with all the holes left in the roof lining. Ask him very nicely what he intends to do about it.

It matters not that you didn't challenge him at the time - you are not the expert in this case and were unaware of what was right or wrong.

Be polite but firm.

JohnW


----------



## Techno100

You don't need a damp meter to check where it is visibly obvious there is no water ingress









If you had to prove it then a couple of damaging pin pricks inches away and totally obvious for ever will not prove the whole perimeter of the roof opening is free from ingress.


----------



## peribro

I think it's shocking. In my view you should write to him asking that he replaces the roof lining and advising him that if he declines then you will have it done elsewhere and look to him for recompense. At the same time you might mention that you will also be commissioning an independent inspector to report on both the headlining damage and the 12v wiring issue that he seems to have caused.


----------



## Techno100

You'll have no problem selling it though as you can prove you've had a damp check 8O that's no funny 
My van had 4 hab services under first owner and I have no holes but they paid plenty and the van was still in bad condition never the less.


----------



## readyforoff

Wow. Unbelievable. Why on earth didn't he stop at the first insertion with the obvious damage ? I check my van periodically with a Maplin tester with prongs and it leaves no visible damage even when used mid panel. I'd be livid.


----------



## coppo

Surely if a professional motorhome technician or whatever you call them damp tests every motorhome in this way then there would be loads of people going mad with him and after recompense.

Very strange, why is he still doing it like this?

Paul.


----------



## cabby

Who is this moron. should not be let loose in a motorhome without supervision.

cabby

the comment about holes in roof made pages ago was to point out that they were in the ceiling, was an attempt at humour.
I do not think it was a very good attempt, after looking at the photos.


----------



## barryd

I would suggest you contact him and explain that you are not at all happy and then point him at this thread. If I were him the last thing I would want is a forum full of customers and potential customers seeing this kind of thing and I would do my upmost to put it right and make sure there was a happy ending.

Any trader that wants to stay in business would do the same.

£250 for a hab check? Seems a lot. My local mobile guy charges £75.


----------



## urbanracer

He has ruined you motorhome and it now needs fixing ,I have never seen marks like that after a hab check.

Its looks a bit like woodworm!

I feel for you.


----------



## coppo

I would say ruined is a bit strong, surely.

Paul.


----------



## DSL2

Completely unacceptable. With my OCD nature if it were my motorhome I'd have to replace all the holed panels or wouldn't be able to enjoy owning it......


----------



## gaspode

I find all this very perplexing. :? 

We've had numerous damp tests done on various motorhomes and never had any visible blemish left afterwards. I've used a "prod" type meter myself numerous times and AFAIK there is absolutely no need to make that sort of hole in the surface in order to detect any dampness.

Why a professional would make such a mess is completely beyond me, especially as other members who've used the same contractor don't seem to have had similar problems.

I certainly think you're entitled to have the damage repaired to the point where the puncture marks are invisible to the naked eye. That may be possible without renewing the ceiling fabric but if it means complete replacement then that's what you should get.

The cost seems very high to me but I don't know exactly what was done and assume the cost was agreed before the work was carried out anyway so I doubt you have any redress on this aspect.

My advice would be to contact the company and ask for the damage to be inspected and rectified to your satisfaction. If this is refused then I would consider you have a good case for getting the remedial work carried out elsewhere and asking this company to pay for the work. You always have the remedy of taking legal action if you get nowhere but in the first instance I think you need to give the company an opportunity to say sorry and make good the damage.


----------



## Techno100

coppo said:


> I would say ruined is a bit strong, surely.
> 
> Paul.


It's not repairable so is that not ruined?
There's no magical replaceable roof lining, the roof panel has two sides.....
inside and outside


----------



## coppo

Techno100 said:


> coppo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say ruined is a bit strong, surely.
> 
> Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not repairable so is that not ruined?
> There's no magical replaceable roof lining, the roof panel has two sides.....
> inside and outside
Click to expand...

Maybe we have a different take on the word ruined, it needs putting right but the motorhome is not ruined, it hardly makes it a right off.

Paul.


----------



## Techno100

So what do you estimate the cost of a replacement roof to be ? considering the huge amount of work involved? or will polly filla do


----------



## coppo

Read the post in question again, he has ruined your motorhome.

He has maybe ruined the roof lining but not the motorhome.

Paul.


----------



## Snunkie

Thanks everyone. I will contact him on Monday and point him in the direction of this thread and ask what he can/will do about the damage. I paid £470 in total for a habitation check inc gaslow pressure test, 4 sockets and for the electrics to be checked. He refunded £50 of that after I complained about the cost of the sockets. He said they cost him £20 each to buy, but the most I can find the same socket being sold for is £8.99. He charged me £50 per socket stating that most dealers charge. £80 per hour, but having worked that out that would have been cheaper! I also helped with much of the work!
I asked repeatedly his much the sockets would cost me and he kept saying 'not that much'. Now I'm left with a load of damage to my ceiling and no certainty as to whether I'm damp free or not if the meter was used incorrectly.


Absolutely fuming at this point!


----------



## Snunkie

What I don't understand is that someone else on here I think stated that he did theirs with a non-pronged meter and no damage, so why then did he do that to mine?


----------



## Penquin

> *"Snunkie said; *What I don't understand is that someone else on here I think stated that he did theirs with a non-pronged meter and no damage, so why then did he do that to mine?


That would be one of the first questions to ascertain......

His level of competence over such things seems suspect to say the least.........

The damage has got to be made good at his expense FULL STOP.

Dave


----------



## erneboy

> Thanks everyone. I will contact him on Monday and point him in the direction of this thread and ask what he can/will do about the damage. I paid £470 in total for a habitation check inc gaslow pressure test, 4 sockets and for the electrics to be checked. He refunded £50 of that after I complained about the cost of the sockets. He said they cost him £20 each to buy, but the most I can find the same socket being sold for is £8.99. He charged me £50 per socket stating that most dealers charge. £80 per hour, but having worked that out that would have been cheaper! I also helped with much of the work!
> I asked repeatedly his much the sockets would cost me and he kept saying 'not that much'. Now I'm left with a load of damage to my ceiling and no certainty as to whether I'm damp free or not if the meter was used incorrectly.
> 
> Absolutely fuming at this point!


I think you can be assured that you are damp free, in so far as any damp check could give you that assurance. As far as we can tell the test was carried out wrongly only in the sense that he left holes. I think your discussion with him will be difficult enough without raising that, especially as you could well be wrong and it would probably seem ridiculous to him that you are questioning the effectiveness of what he will almost certainly consider to have been an effective damp check.

In your position I would stick entirely to the important point. You already broached the subject of the cost of the sockets and took a refund as a compromise, that is finished. Discuss the holes and don't complicate the discussion by introducing anything else is my advice, Alan.


----------



## BillCreer

Many years ago someone I know took a large number of picture off the wall in her flat which resulted in a large number of random nail holes al over the wall.

Next time I visited the wall was perfect and not a trace of anything. When I asked how she did it she replied, toothpaste.

Now you can get filler that can be coloured and it should be a ten minute job, at the most, to make them all invisible.

Don't take this the wrong way but I read an interesting article about Dementia, the other day, where they said that there seemed to be connection between those who dwell on the negatives and those who went on to suffer from the complaint.(true)

I'll get my coat.


----------



## Snunkie

BillCreer said:


> Many years ago someone I know took a large number of picture off the wall in her flat which resulted in a large number of random nail holes al over the wall.
> 
> Next time I visited the wall was perfect and not a trace of anything. When I asked how she did it she replied, toothpaste.
> 
> Now you can get filler that can be coloured and it should be a ten minute job, at the most, to make them all invisible.
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way but I read an interesting article about Dementia, the other day, where they said that there seemed to be connection between those who dwell on the negatives and those who went on to suffer from the complaint.(true)
> 
> I'll get my coat.


You could well be right bill. I am one to dwell unfortunately but yes, if I look at the situation from a different angle I guess the holes in the roof could be easily disguised and it's not like there is going to be water coming through them or anything silly. This thread hopefully will be useful to others if the situation ever arises and they will know that this is not how damp testing should be carried out.

Steve has already denied any responsibility for the 12v sockets no longer turning off with the 12v off option, including the new sockets he fitted so I doubt I would get anywhere with this complaint and at the end if the day, the damage has already been done. I know it's there no matter how it is disguised, albeit only cosmetic, it shouldn't have happened.

We have no intention of selling our beloved MH for many foreseeable years yet so we're going to Have to deal with it. I would not want the disruption of having the headlining replaced and being without our van which we use at every opportunity.

Thanks for your support on this guys/girls. I guess it really is a case of buyer beware and eyes wide open in these situations. Next time I won't just trust someone else's recommendation although that's very sad because that's usually the best way to ensure genuine, satisfactory workmanship.


----------



## rayc

> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve has already denied any responsibility for the 12v sockets no longer turning off with the 12v off option,
> 
> 
> 
> It should be simple for a competent person to find out why. Have they been connected to the switched side of distribution or even to the vehicle battery? My advise is to get a competent friend to do it or a local auto electrician.
> I would have checked the circuit before I started and on completion so I would have known what was happening. Perhaps Steve is physic to be sure that nothing he did has caused it. Anyway water under the bridge, be positive and a lesson learnt. Don't assume that employing a 'specialist' will be pain free in the same way as buying a motorhome from a dealer will not assure happiness.
Click to expand...


----------



## norrie

Lucy,

Dreadful thing to happen to anyone, especially from a "competent person".

I worked in the customer service industry for 43 years as a Gas Engineer and was fully qualified to work with confidence in many very expensive properties and with competence, and if I had done what you describe happened then I would have been severly reprimanded, and the customer financially recompensed.

I feel very sorry for what has happened to your treasured motorhome and I sincerly hope you get over it regardless.

ps: I just purchased a damp meter this morning, just to keep an eye on things.

Norrie


----------



## aldra

So ok

Who is this Steve??

Just to be sure none of us use him

Aldra


----------



## cabby

you just beat me to that question.

cabby


----------



## readyforoff

If it's any consolation I guess there'll be an effective repair available. A dealership once damaged the leather trim in my car and I was fuming and demanded a new upper door panel. He assured me his trim repair guys would make it good. No idea what they patched it with but I couldn't find the damaged area when I collected it....John


----------



## Snunkie

aldra said:


> So ok
> 
> Who is this Steve??
> 
> Just to be sure none of us use him
> 
> Aldra


It is Steve at MMC Services http://www.mobilemotorhomeservices.co.uk/contact.php

I have text him this morning with photographs of the holes telling him that it is not acceptable and that we wanted sorted. I popped into a dealer yesterday and they were horrified at how the damp meter had been (wrongly) used by a so called professional. I have also specified that it is not acceptable that the 12v shutoff no longer works since he came and fitted new sockets. I cannot isolate anything other than the water pump, tv aerial and the lights now. All the 12v sockets and gas alarm remain live when the 12v is turned off.


----------



## Snunkie

I can't bear confrontation, it makes me feel physically sick, but I have to get this sorted or it is going to bug me forever.


----------



## DonA

I hope this guy Steve does the right thing by getting it sorted.


You wonder what qualification you need to do the job? I was under the impression that the habitation check is not compulsory?


All the Best :wink:


----------



## Snunkie

DonA said:


> I hope this guy Steve does the right thing by getting it sorted.
> 
> You wonder what qualification you need to do the job? I was under the impression that the habitation check is not compulsory?
> 
> All the Best :wink:


So do I. No response from him as yet but I'm not holding my breath to be honest.

No, I don't think it is compulsory. It's the first one we've ever had one having had the MH a couple of years and it had one before we got it and, aside from the Gaslow pressure check that he did, I could have put every blind up and down myself to check it was working and I certainly wouldn't have put a load of holes in my ceiling (or anyone else's for that matter!) That cost me £250!

Another thing I remembered - he advised that my fridge was set up wrongly but I beg to differ. He told me that it should not be able to work off the leisure battery in case it was accidentally on auto and I wasn't on EHU, no engine running or no gas turned on that it would drain my battery.
Actually that is not the case at all. On auto it does not switch to the leisure battery, it only runs from the battery when the engine is running (on auto). If I have no EHU or No gas connected it still does not switch to the battery so he was wrong.
I can however switch it manually to run off the leisure battery IF I wanted to and that is how I like it set up.


----------



## peribro

Obviously depending upon his reply Lucy but I think you should consider getting a report and a quote from a reputable dealer / company to put right the various things he has bodged. You can then send him the report and tell him that he has 7 days in which to confirm to you that he will put right the things that are wrong failing which you will have them done yourself and seek reimbursement from him.


----------



## Suenliam

So sorry to read of your plight.

For what it's worth, I viewed "Steve's" website and there is no mention of him being a member/authorised by the National Caravan Council Approved Workshop Scheme. He does mention both the CC and C&CC and MHclub, but there is no mention of proficiency approval (we probably know why  ) Actually he also has MHFs as a useful link - wonder how long that will last?

On reading the website he is referred to as the Engineer - is he the only one or perhaps he owns the firm. 

Snunkie, I know you won't welcome this comment, but I'm not sure I would trust him with the gas now that he has made mistakes with the electrics. Don't want to put you to more expense, but if your electrics are wonky after he has checked them then how about the gas......

Oh dear  

Sue


----------



## Snunkie

Unfortunately no response from Steve as yet which doesn't look good. 

There is only him working for the company as far as I could make out from our conversations. His partner manned the phones whilst he did the work. There was no mention of any other employees.

I went with him because he was recommended on here by someone else so he must have done a good job for them.


----------



## readyforoff

Shooting himself in the foot if he doesn't respond. There may be a lot of motorhomes but it's a very small community in reality and I'd wager most pass through this (free to read) forum on a regular basis. If he isn't qualified by the way he shouldn't be messing with Gas / Elec :?

Edit ....Slightly off track but we had our Apache hab serviced last week by our local authorised Autotrail dealer for £99 plus Vat.


----------



## tugboat

Lucy, are you personally dealing with this chap on your own, because that's the impression I get?

It's a sad fact that, even today, women are at a disadvantage when dealing with tradesmen. I'm not suggesting that you are inadequate in any way shape or form, but you are upset by all this and it strikes me that a forceful male might have more success in getting some satisfaction out of this Steve.

Do you have a no-nonsense male friend who could step up and help you deal with this? I hate to see anyone taken advantage of.


----------



## Snunkie

tugboat said:


> Lucy, are you personally dealing with this chap on your own, because that's the impression I get?
> 
> It's a sad fact that, even today, women are at a disadvantage when dealing with tradesmen. I'm not suggesting that you are inadequate in any way shape or form, but you are upset by all this and it strikes me that a forceful male might have more success in getting some satisfaction out of this Steve.
> 
> Do you have a no-nonsense male friend who could step up and help you deal with this? I hate to see anyone taken advantage of.


I'm afraid I am. My husband doesn't get too much involved with these things I'm afraid, he has his own extremely stressful business to deal with which is going through bad times and he really doesn't need me putting extra pressure on him. I'm a strong woman but really don't like situations like this at all. I too have my own business and the very last thing I would want is an unhappy customer, I would go out of my way to put anything right if someone was unhappy with what I did (www.snunkie.co.uk) and I would be horrified to find it being discussed online and would be on there putting things right immediately.

I'm afraid I get the impression that I'm not going to get a response. I find it all the more upsetting that we are of similar ages and got on well, chatting about businesses and how some businesses treat people etc and the low life that exist out there saying that we would never do that to someone. Everytime I look at those [email protected]@dy holes in the roof it makes me more angry! It makes me not want to trust anyone at all.


----------



## DonA

I think I would be getting onto Trading Standards at least that way they may record his details and the complaint and give you some advice? Or even Watchdog/Rogue Traders


----------



## barryd

How have you contacted him? You say he has not responded. Was it a text? I think you need to speak face to face or at least over the phone and tell him you will be sending him a link to this thread and would invite him to respond and explain to you and to us how he intends to put it right!

The chap has cocked up the job there can be no denying it. So lets give him a chance to put it right and hopefully redeem his reputation. He should have a right to reply anyway really and surely any trader worth his salt would want to respond and make you happy and get a happy outcome to this thread.

I agree with Tugboat. Someone needs to step up to the plate and be a bit more forceful and firm with this person.


----------



## cabby

I am happy to see that this Steve does not cover my area.

A text is no use, you need to speak to him direct, even if it is only on the phone. If you do not feel that you can manage this then I recommend you write down your complaint and advise him that you are within your rights to have the problems resolved by whichever qualified person you choose. I certainly would not have him back on my drive, let alone in the van.
Do enclose a quote for the work that is needed to rectify what he has done. registered is best. if no response within 7 days you take him to small claims court.
Do remember to keep copies of all paperwork, dates and times you have tried to contact him by phone and text. while at it send him an email.

cabby


----------



## gaspode

Maybe you might want to leave some feedback in his MHF listing?
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/entry-id-574.html

Or possibly a PM:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-userprofile-28944.html

On second thoughts, he's not visited MHF since 19/02/11 so you'd be wasting your time. :wink:


----------



## Snunkie

I had a text back from Steve this morning asking if I was trying to send him something as it hadn't downloaded. These would have been the photos of the holes in the ceiling. I have now emailed the photos and my complaint to him and am awaiting a response. 

I'll let you know what happens. I'm hoping he will make good the situation.


----------



## Snunkie

Just to keep you all updated, I have received an email back from Michaela at MMC services and she is looking into this for me. 

She has said that they are 'sorry to hear we are unhappy with the work carried out and that Customer Satisfaction has always been extremely important to them which is why Steve has such a good reputation and that they have certainly never had any complaints along this line before and have used this form of Damp Test for several Years. She has said that she is sure being such a perfectionist that Steve will come to come back and fill the holes for us if necessary.

I have written back confirming exactly what we are unhappy with and that we want it resolved. I have also sent a link to this thread.


----------



## barryd

Good for you Lucy. Lets hope for a satisfactory outcome.


----------



## cabby

That may sound good, however I am sure myself that I would not fancy them doing anything else on my van.

cabby


----------



## deefordog

Fill the holes with what? Snot, paint, Tipex?


----------



## Snunkie

Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there


----------



## rayc

Snunkie said:


> Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there


The holes will not be holes any more if filled in. No different to dinging a wing and getting it repaired.


----------



## gaspode

> The holes will not be holes any more if filled in. No different to dinging a wing and getting it repaired.


I quite agree Ray.

A skilled coach trimmer (maybe not the guy who made the holes) will make them dissappear without a trace.
It's not rocket science, just know-how, using the right materials and a bit of old fashioned skill.


----------



## Penquin

Totally agree with rayc and gaspode as regards the repairs BUT they have to be done by a competent person, not someone who "thinks they can sort it" but a professional with a reputation for high quality repairs.

IMO that would NOT be the person who caused them......

Dave


----------



## OzGit

Snunkie said:


> Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there


Unfortunately, such a stance makes it virtually impossible for anyone to resolve.

We have used Steve since 2008 and would not consider letting anyone else touch our van. He performs an annual hab check and has installed extra sockets, the alarm, an awning, a bike rack, a satellite system, a reversing camera, repaired a broken tap, repaired a broken roof light, replaced a blocked gas regulator, renewed all the seals and most recently installed a sog and a solar panel. He even fixed a broken step by engineering a custom brace for it. We would not keep going back if we were not completely satisfied with the service, workmanship and cost. We have always found Steve to be meticulous (overly so on occasion) and that is why his customers recommend him - which is why you chose him in the first place. Obviously our experience does not help you but I wanted to balance the negative comments of those who have never met or used Steve.

Bottom line, for whatever reason, the holes now exist and that cannot be undone. Set emotion aside (however difficult that might be) and focus on resolution. If the objective is to no longer see the holes then the appropriate (and proportionate) solution is to fill them.

This can be resolved, life's too short...

Regards,

Simon


----------



## Snunkie

I appreciate your comments Simon and I'm sure there are many other satisfied customers. I did feel that Steve was very competent and I did enjoy learning from him and he answered every question I had. As you say, he was recommended and that's why we used him and this is unfortunate but I am very upset by the whole thing. I found even more holes at the weekend in the overcab bed area. They just seem to be everywhere. It cannot be undone and it should never have occurred in the first place. No one has the right to damage our beloved, very expensive motorhome and I just can't understand why it was done this way. Steve came across as very meticulous, it just doesn't seem like something he would do if I hadn't actually seen him do it. I'm sure he won't do it again after this and I'm sure he's feeling just as annoyed as I am.

MMC services have offered to come back on Sunday 29th June to fill the holes and to look into the 12v isolation problem. We tend to camp at every opportunity and haven't agreed to this date yet as it would prevent us from camping that weekend. We both run our own businesses and I work from home so often don't leave the house all week other then to do the school run, meaning our weekends away are important to us or everyone else has to suffer the effects of my cabin fever  

I will report back once it's been resolved. I'm not out to ruin someone's business and will always view both sides of everything and give praise where praise is due. This post initially was to ask if it was normal to have holes everywhere after a damp check which it quite obviously is not and emotions were stirred. I don't mean to cause any problems for Steve and they have been very polite and cooperative in trying to sort a resolution for this problem and I am grateful for that.


----------



## Penquin

It is good to hear that progress is being made, even if the date is not convenient it might be the best option to get it sorted while you can see what is being done.

Yes, it means losing a weekend, but you would regain the vehicle hopefully in an acceptable condition.

The alternative of him having the MH while you are NOT there would probably be less desirable for you - watching what is done will help resolve your fears and worries.

BUT it would be good for ALL of us to understand WHY this has happened.........

Dave


----------



## readyforoff

OzGit said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, such a stance makes it virtually impossible for anyone to resolve.
> 
> We have used Steve since 2008 and would not consider letting anyone else touch our van. He performs an annual hab check and has installed extra sockets, the alarm, an awning, a bike rack, a satellite system, a reversing camera, repaired a broken tap, repaired a broken roof light, replaced a blocked gas regulator, renewed all the seals and most recently installed a sog and a solar panel. He even fixed a broken step by engineering a custom brace for it. We would not keep going back if we were not completely satisfied with the service, workmanship and cost. We have always found Steve to be meticulous (overly so on occasion) and that is why his customers recommend him - which is why you chose him in the first place. Obviously our experience does not help you but I wanted to balance the negative comments of those who have never met or used Steve.
> 
> Bottom line, for whatever reason, the holes now exist and that cannot be undone. Set emotion aside (however difficult that might be) and focus on resolution. If the objective is to no longer see the holes then the appropriate (and proportionate) solution is to fill them.
> 
> This can be resolved, life's too short...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Simon
Click to expand...

Holes shouldn't be there - full stop. And he should have stopped at the first one.


----------



## ttcharlie

readyforoff said:


> OzGit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, such a stance makes it virtually impossible for anyone to resolve.
> 
> We have used Steve since 2008 and would not consider letting anyone else touch our van. He performs an annual hab check and has installed extra sockets, the alarm, an awning, a bike rack, a satellite system, a reversing camera, repaired a broken tap, repaired a broken roof light, replaced a blocked gas regulator, renewed all the seals and most recently installed a sog and a solar panel. He even fixed a broken step by engineering a custom brace for it. We would not keep going back if we were not completely satisfied with the service, workmanship and cost. We have always found Steve to be meticulous (overly so on occasion) and that is why his customers recommend him - which is why you chose him in the first place. Obviously our experience does not help you but I wanted to balance the negative comments of those who have never met or used Steve.
> 
> Bottom line, for whatever reason, the holes now exist and that cannot be undone. Set emotion aside (however difficult that might be) and focus on resolution. If the objective is to no longer see the holes then the appropriate (and proportionate) solution is to fill them.
> 
> This can be resolved, life's too short...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Simon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holes shouldn't be there - full stop. And he should have stopped at the first one.
Click to expand...

That's a really helpfully post..... :-(


----------



## Kaytutt

Interesting first post from Simon.....


----------



## Penquin

He has been a member for 6 years according to his profile and this is his first post.......

Welcome to the forum participation Simon, maybe you have posted before and the MHF system has ignored it, perhaps you might like to give us a few details about yourself as you have, according to your profile, been in the background for a very long time.

Dave


----------



## Snunkie

Maybe this thread was pointed out to simon and he was asked to 'comment'.....


----------



## Stanner

OzGit said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that's my concern too! Fill them with what? I will always know they are there
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, such a stance makes it virtually impossible for anyone to resolve.
> 
> Bottom line, for whatever reason, the holes now exist and that cannot be undone. Set emotion aside (however difficult that might be) and focus on resolution. If the objective is to no longer see the holes then the appropriate (and proportionate) solution is to fill them.
Click to expand...

Of course the holes should never have been caused in the first place but then ANY damage whatever the cause should NEVER happen - in an IDEAL world.

If we all took the position that repair is pointless because "I will always know it's there" nothing would ever be repaired. 
Think of all the vehicle repair bodyshops that would be instantly out of business and think of your insurance premium when nobody will accept a repair and the result of ANY damage has to be "new for old" replacement.

PS I didn't realise there was a rule on here that you were not allowed to comment on any subject unless you have been a regular poster.


----------



## Snunkie

An accidental knock to car bodywork hardly compares to metal prongs purposely poked through my Motorhome ceiling though Stanner. This was no accident.


----------



## Stanner

Ohh right, so if someone accidentally bumps into your car in traffic a repair is acceptable as they didn't mean to do it.

However, if it's deliberate damage, say if they walk along a road deliberately kicking the doors and windows in, then you would demand a new car?

To me all a motorhome is, is a big pile of metal, plastic and wood that can be repaired. 

That said I do concede that I would be holding out for replacement of the headlining in this instance, if only to hopefully ensure he doesn't ever have such a lapse of proficiency in the future.


----------



## Bob45

Long thread this so this may have been said before.
If there are many holes in the roof I cannot see these being caused by a gadget to test dampness. I have one and you just hold or press against the material. It would take a deal of pressure. What material - tissue paper to tin foil?

More likely to be caused by hailstones.

Bob


Holes on the inside! I take it all back.


----------



## dalspa

Bob,
You had better read through the whole thread and look at the photos - the holes are on the INSIDE  

DavidL


----------



## Snunkie

Bob45 said:


> Long thread this so this may have been said before.
> If there are many holes in the roof I cannot see these being caused by a gadget to test dampness. I have one and you just hold or press against the material. It would take a deal of pressure. What material - tissue paper to tin foil?
> 
> More likely to be caused by hailstones.
> 
> Bob


Best you read the thread Bob as you've got completely the wrong end of the stick, or actually the wrong side of the roof :lol:

Habitation check, damp meter, long metal prongs, saw him push it through the headlining in the inside of my ceiling but was too late as there were already dozens of pairs of holes!


----------



## peribro

> *Bob45:*
> If there are many holes in the roof I cannot see these being caused by a gadget to test dampness..........More likely to be caused by hailstones.


Must have been some serious hailstones to put holes in the roof! 8O


----------



## OzGit

Kaytutt said:


> Interesting first post from Simon.....


and there it is, the inevitable forum politics and 'first post' suspicions...

Ok, just for the record [deep breathe]: I have no vested interested, nothing to gain, nothing to lose by offering my view. I am not Steve, I am not related to Steve, I do not live near Steve, I do not work with Steve, I don't meet Steve down the pub on a Friday after work, I have not spoken to Steve since he installed my solar panel a few weeks ago and most relevant: I have not had any discussions with Steve about this thread/Lucy/complaints/holes/etc. I will confess that I *was* made aware of this thread last week by a friend (who also uses Steve) and that's what lead me here. So, apologies to the conspiracy theorists and to the cynics but it really was a case of "Hi Simon, have you seen that thread on MHF complaining about Steve", sue me for being curious.

I am, unashamedly, a happy customer of Steve's and after conducting 7 hab checks I have no holes in my van (and I did double-check before posting) but hey, perhaps I have just had a lucky escape... 7 years in a row? Or perhaps the truth is that Steve is not a 'moron' as described by one poster.

The point of my post was to give Lucy some assurance that Steve *is* competent and to encourage her to work with him to resolve the issue. My view of the world is simplistic: the holes exist, you can't take them back and focusing on the why's and wherefore's will not help Lucy get back to enjoying her van which is surely the desired outcome. On that front I am glad to see from Lucy's post that things are moving forward - that's the important thing.

Simon


----------



## OzGit

Penquin said:


> He has been a member for 6 years according to his profile and this is his first post.......
> 
> Welcome to the forum participation Simon, maybe you have posted before and the MHF system has ignored it, perhaps you might like to give us a few details about yourself as you have, according to your profile, been in the background for a very long time.
> 
> Dave


Happy to, although I doubt that I will continue participating based on my first experience of posting. I did not expect to encounter so much cynicism and negativity from fellow MH'ers. I am more used to seeing a friendly wave when our paths cross. But hey, I've been using forums since the days of bulletin board systems - sadly nothing has changed.

My wife and I live in a small village in Kent. I work in computing and a bit of a workaholic and I take very little time off so in 2008 we purchased the van and started having regular long weekends away. Neither of us are very good at sitting still and we are not in to sun bathing (we get bored), we are more akin to Japanese tourists preferring to drive, stop, see it, take a picture and move on to see something else. We prefer to travel off-season away from the crowds and particularly like to be away in the van during Winter. We like to go off the tourist trail and see the bits that the masses don't see.

After 7 years of 'practicing' we finally let go of the CC sites and this year started wild camping with a 10 night tour of Devon and Cornwall with a couple of CL's booked in as pit stops en route. We love the freedom that wild camping affords so much so that we won't look back. We had the solar panel installed to help us stay unhooked for longer. Our next wild tour will be the Scottish islands later this year (we did the mainland coast last year). MH'ing is definitely a lifestyle choice for us and we are already planning looking forward to our retirement when we plan to spend much of the year touring Europe (I hasten to add that retirement is still at least 15yrs or more away).

Simon


----------



## Stanner

OzGit said:


> but hey, perhaps I have just had a lucky escape... 7 years in a row? Or perhaps the truth is that Steve is not a 'moron' as described by one poster.


1 It would appear that way.

2 How would you describe someone who (as we have been told) did go around poking holes in the ceiling of a motorhome whilst being watched by the owner?

3 Just because he has been historically competent with you, does not mean he is infallible.

4 Your first post would not be the first time that a first poster has popped up to "comment" on a thread. The difference in your case is that you do appear to be an existing subscriber, NOT an oh so new registrant.

5 Presumably Steve is also now aware of this thread - his side would be interesting to many of us, silence doesn't do anything.


----------



## cabby

This is a little bit like Brownhills, plenty for and plenty against. There however seems to be a slight leaning towards the positive side as there has been contact between the interested parties and the problem will be resolved and we are hopeful of an excellent outcome.

I am disappointed with the sniping that has occurred between members on this and other threads, I was hoping that this year it would not have reared it's ugly head again. Just remember that there are other Forums to join who do enjoy such behaviour, if you find it necessary.

cabby


----------



## Zebedee

Quite agree about the sniping Cabby, though it comes as no surprise in some cases.

It amazes me how many members must have been to look at the holes . . . how else could they be so categoric in their judgement!! 8O 

Dave


----------



## Penquin

Thank you once again to Ozgit for explaining his enviable lifestyle - I think many of us would love to follow in your tyretracks/footsteps and visit some of the places.

Please DO continue to post - your input is as important as anyone else's as we all have different views on things. There may be occasional grief - in exactly the same way as I very much doubt that you get on with every person you meet - some you like, others you are not so sure about - forum life reflects the same characteristics.

As regards the holes, I am waiting to hear the outcome of the discussions - there is nothing else that I can or would add - I am not involved and have no direct experience of the person or the process so, IMO keeping out f it is the best route. I just hope that it all gets sorted and that the outcome is posted so that we are all aware of what has happened, then the topic will hopefully die a natural death....

Anyway, thanks for clarifying, if ever your travels take you this way do let me know, it is always good to put a face to a name, even if that name is only a web personality/username.

Dave


----------



## OzGit

Stanner said:


> OzGit said:
> 
> 
> 
> but hey, perhaps I have just had a lucky escape... 7 years in a row? Or perhaps the truth is that Steve is not a 'moron' as described by one poster.
> 
> 
> 
> 1 It would appear that way.
> 
> 2 How would you describe someone who (as we have been told) did go around poking holes in the ceiling of a motorhome whilst being watched by the owner?
> 
> 3 Just because he has been historically competent with you, does not mean he is infallible.
> 
> 4 Your first post would not be the first time that a first poster has popped up to "comment" on a thread. The difference in your case is that you do appear to be an existing subscriber, NOT an oh so new registrant.
> 
> 5 Presumably Steve is also now aware of this thread - his side would be interesting to many of us, silence doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...

*

2. Brave?!

3. True. Conversely I am proof that he does not routinely go around 'poking holes' in ceilings with a damp meter.

4. Yeah, I've seen it many times before. I confess that I found it surprisingly irritating to be the recipient and all because I felt strongly enough about something to make, what I thought was, a constructive and positive comment. On the bright side, I now have a few posts under my belt and exempt from 'first post' attacks - or is there a minimum number of posts I must achieve before I achieve the status of "one of us"?

5. I could not agree less. If I had to describe a moron then it would be a person who set themselves up for a virtual lynching because from what I've seen, that is what would happen here. He would be doing nothing but fanning flames and I cannot see that anything good/constructive would come of it. I don't know if Steve frequents the forums, I have seen his advert here but I don't think that he owns a MH or van himself and probably doesn't. The only person Steve need discuss any of this with is Lucy.

Simon*


----------



## OzGit

Penquin said:


> if ever your travels take you this way do let me know, it is always good to put a face to a name, even if that name is only a web personality/username.
> 
> Dave


If it's taken us 7 years to get the courage to wild camp, can you imagine how many more years it will take before we are brave enough to venture abroad 

Thanks for your comments Dave.

Simon


----------



## Zebedee

Ho Ozgit

Just re-read your first post and I can't understand why anyone has picked on you. :roll: A very sensible, pragmatic and ambivalent post it seems to me.

I would have said exactly the same, and I much prefer to see a positive and helpful post like yours, rather than the "_trial by totally uninformed MHF members_" which so often happens.

As I said a little while ago, nobody (_presumably_) has seen the holes other than Lucy, and while I have no doubt she has been completely genuine, how can anyone pass a meaningful comment without having seen the bloody holes. 8O

What clearly worries her quite a lot may be of no consequence to others - and some may not even notice that they were there.

I wish I was as clever as some folk who can judge the competence of a motorhome technician without ever having met him or seen any of his work!!

Dave


----------



## cabby

Simon
If as you say,you managed to get to wild camp status over here, then in France etc, you will find it so much more simple, refreshingly so indeed. Don't delay it is time now.You will enjoy it, that's an order. :lol: :roll: 

cabby


----------



## Snunkie

Why do threads always have to come to this? Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but is there a need for some to get so personal and narky? People are entitled to stick up for Steve with evidence of good work. I've had an unfortunate experience which I'm very upset about but I'm sure Steve must feel bad too, although I haven't spoken to him in person.

I have subscribed to this forum for 3 years and it's been a great source of help and information, and I thought very carefully before posting this on here. It's sad that it sometimes feels a bit like being back in the playground. It doesn't change that I'm upset but can we just behave like adults and comment sensibly?

As I said, I had a good day with Steve learning about lots of aspects of my motorhome and he did seem very competent. I was upset about were the holes in the roof which, if I hadn't seen Steve do then I wouldn't have believe it would be something he would do because he really was very particular about what he was doing. However, they have agreed to deal with the problems so if they are done satisfactorily then fine, it's done and it just needs fixing and I'll just deal with it.


----------



## Snunkie

All I wanted to know was if it was normal to have holes everywhere after a damp check


----------



## Snunkie

Ok, I've just had a conversation with my husband about this and he says he does not want him back here touching our motorhome. He said he would rather pay someone else to put it right than have the person that caused it back. This is the first time I've been able to discuss it with him properly as he has things of his own to sort our with his business and I was trying to save him the concern.

I guess we will now need to find someone to look at the electrical problem. I would rather fill the holes ourselves.


----------



## Kaytutt

In response to some of the latest posts and Simon quoting my comment in his second post. Yes I made a comment that it was an unusual first post and yes we have seen other unusual first posts leaping to the defence of some poor workmanship in the past

You seem like a very friendly and amiable person therefore it's even more surprising that you chose this thread to make your first ever comment after being a subscriber for so many years. Most new members would say hello in an introductory type post shortly after joining.

It's your choice how you choose to post as it is mine. I did not "diss" you or say anything negative about you, I posted my view about your first post and I still hold that view but again, it's your choice to post as you wish. 

You have clarified your reasons for your post and confirmed you have no hidden agenda which is great but there has clearly been some poor workmanship this time and there is photographic evidence to prove it, all the positive reviews in the world about this workman won't change what has happened and if it had happened to our van I would be furious


----------



## Stanner

> "Zebedee"
> It amazes me how many members must have been to look at the holes . . . how else could they be so categoric in their judgement!! 8O
> 
> Dave


You missed the pictures then? :?



> 5. I could not agree less. If I had to describe a moron then it would be a person who set themselves up for a virtual lynching because from what I've seen, that is what would happen here. He would be doing nothing but fanning flames and I cannot see that anything good/constructive would come of it. I don't know if Steve frequents the forums, I have seen his advert here but I don't think that he owns a MH or van himself and probably doesn't. The only person Steve need discuss any of this with is Lucy.


We continue to agree to differ then.

Steve has nothing to lose if he has nothing to hide (other than the holes of course) if he has an explanation for his apparent lapse of previous high standards.

Even a simple hands up and "Sorry, it shouldn't have happened I won't do it again" would do something to redeem the situation.

No explanation does him no favours at all.

Everyone screws up once in a while, that's why it's called "human error".

It's how it is put right that matters.


----------



## Snunkie

Zebedee said:


> Ho Ozgit
> 
> Just re-read your first post and I can't understand why anyone has picked on you. :roll: A very sensible, pragmatic and ambivalent post it seems to me.
> 
> I would have said exactly the same, and I much prefer to see a positive and helpful post like yours, rather than the "_trial by totally uninformed MHF members_" which so often happens.
> 
> As I said a little while ago, nobody (_presumably_) has seen the holes other than Lucy, and while I have no doubt she has been completely genuine, how can anyone pass a meaningful comment without having seen the bloody holes. 8O
> 
> What clearly worries her quite a lot may be of no consequence to others - and some may not even notice that they were there.
> 
> I wish I was as clever as some folk who can judge the competence of a motorhome technician without ever having met him or seen any of his work!!
> 
> Dave


Zebedee, I posted several pics on this thread of just some of the holes. There are in excess of 20 pairs of holes.


----------



## Kaytutt

Zebedee said:


> Quite agree about the sniping Cabby, though it comes as no surprise in some cases.
> 
> It amazes me how many members must have been to look at the holes . . . how else could they be so categoric in their judgement!! 8O
> 
> Dave


Perhaps if you read the whole thread it would help you understand better and then you could be a little less categoric in your judgement :wink:


----------



## Zebedee

Yes - I did miss the pictures, and I have to eat humble pie and agree that they do look pretty bad. 

If I had been doing the test on my own, or someone else's van, there would have been only one pair of holes. It would have been immediately obvious that the roof lining was "unforgiving" of pinholes, and no more would have been made.

_(The lining we have on our van is quite different, and it shows no sign of holes where the prongs of a damp tester have been poked through. It's more of a woven material so no visible evidence of holes remain.) _

Having (belatedly  ) seen the pics I can quite understand why Lucy is more than a bit peeved.

Dave


----------



## Zebedee

> Kaytutt said :- Perhaps if you read the whole thread it would help you understand better and then you could be a little less categoric in your judgement :wink:


I thought I had, but somehow missed a whole page of posts.

I made a mistake - but I am quite ready to admit it and offer an apology.

Dave


----------



## barryd

> *Kaytutt wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Zebedee wrote: *Quite agree about the sniping Cabby, though it comes as no surprise in some cases.
> 
> It amazes me how many members must have been to look at the holes . . . how else could they be so categoric in their judgement!! 8O
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps if you read the whole thread it would help you understand better and then you could be a little less categoric in your judgement :wink:
Click to expand...











 :? 8O


----------



## Kaytutt

Can I borrow your handbag Barry? It's bigger than mine


----------



## barryd

> *Kaytutt wrote: *Can I borrow your handbag Barry? It's bigger than mine


Anything for you my lovely!


----------



## Snunkie

Barry you're such a creep :lol:


----------



## Stanner

Snunkie said:


> Barry you're such a creep :lol:


And your spelling is terrible - you don't spell it anything like that. :roll:


----------



## Whatton

Get a tube of decorators calk, fill the holes and move on. You've been crapped on by a dodgy company, learn from this and be prepared the next time you have to use someone to do work you can't do.


----------



## teemyob

Whatton said:


> Get a tube of decorators calk, fill the holes and move on. You've been crapped on by a dodgy company, learn from this and be prepared the next time you have to use someone to do work you can't do.


Nearly as shocking as the holes!


----------



## GEMMY

Can't believe we are still talking about bluddy holes 12 pages later :roll: 8O 

This is turning into an archaeology thread 

tony :lol:


----------



## Penquin

It would be good to hear that things are on their way to being resolved.

This thread has been running for two weeks............

time for the problem to be sorted and laid to rest so that it can die peacefully methinks.....

Dave


----------



## teemyob

holed up somewhere?


----------



## Zebedee

Whatton said:


> Get a tube of decorators calk, fill the holes and move on.


Can that stuff fill holes in fabric then? 8O

Could be handy for darning socks. :lol: :lol:

Getting me coat! :roll:


----------



## Drew

Keep it going please, this has been the best thread for years.


----------



## Snunkie

Stanner said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barry you're such a creep :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> And your spelling is terrible - you don't spell it anything like that. :roll:
Click to expand...

Eh?


----------



## cypsygal

I've not been looking at MHF for a while, busy with work. We have used this chap in the past - he has imbued us with confidence, really seems to know what he is talking about. Did a hab check for us, seemed very efficient. Now we have new van, are looking to get solar and a new tv aeriel or system, had thought of contacting him again. We have recommended him to others...............

TBH it's a bit worrying. An apology and putting it right would restore my faith.


----------



## Snunkie

Sorry to bring this thread up again but I did promise to keep you updated with the outcome

I've emailed MMC services this morning letting them know that unfortunately my husband does not want Steve back to work on the MH  

I have told them we will find a solution to fix the holes in the ceiling ourselves and asked that they cover the cost of the materials required. I have also said that we will get a quote to sort the 12v problems out. 

When Steve came we had a problem with a dead area on the electoblok which ran part of the 12v circuit. I'd plugged in a 12v coffee machine into one socket and a coolbox into another which apparently blew the fuse and caused subsequent problems, so Steve cut the wire on that connection and daisy chained it to another circuit but it appears to us that the circuit it was daisy chained to was a permanently live circuit which does not turn off with the 12v isolation option on the Schaudt panel. It is also causing us other problems now in that all the sockets are on the same circuit with just a 10amp fuse so if we plug more than a couple of things in it blows the fuse. 

I must point out that I cannot possibly know either way whether this is because they have been daisy chained together or whether a fault has developed so not quite sure how to deal with this one. I definitely cannot stretch to a new/reconditioned EBL at the moment, nor do I want to. 

I daren't plug in my iboost motorhome wifi until it is fixed either because we had a problem with the last one and it has just been replaced so I don't want to risk damaging it. 

Any advice very much appreciated.


----------



## Snunkie

I have also asked MMC services to please not poke prongs into the ceiling of anyone else's argos burster 747 - it does appear from the info some of you have given that ceilings do vary and some ceilings can have a damp meter poked into them without the holes showing because it is more of a woven fabric. The ceiling of the 747 is board, it does not close up after. Maybe MMC weren't aware of this but it is a shame that he didn't realise after the first entry point that it was not a suitable ceiling to poke damp meter prongs into.

I'll let you know what the reply is. I don't think there is a need for others to worry now about the damp meter as I'm sure they will be much more careful next time and with regards to the electrics, I cannot really prove much about that. It does seem that they've been wired into a permanently live circuit which is wrong for us because we want to be able to isolate them but we didn't discuss that on the day, I just assumed that it would still be possible to isolate them. With regards to the fuse blowing now with them all on the same circuit, I'm not sure if that is because they are on the same circuit or whether there is another problem with the EBL so until I have someone else look at it there's not much I can do


----------



## cabby

Thank you for the update.

cabby


----------



## Penquin

Thanks for updating us, I hope the response that you receive, assuming that you do receive a response is positive.

If two circuits have been "daisy-chained" it is not really a surprise that the fuse may have blown as it may well overload one small fuse.....

It needs checking by someone with expertise, a different auto-electrician may be the best local solution, but IMO it cannot and should not, stay as it is at present.....

Dave


----------



## Snunkie

I've now explained the electrical problem/concerns to Atlantic who were extremely helpful. We're going to arrange a weekend in Wales which we wanted to do anyway and get it looked at whilst we're there as they open at weekends for long distance customers. I just feel really uneasy with this cut off wire in the electroblok and as this company refurbish electrobloks I'm sure he can best advise us. I'll post a pic and show you


----------



## Snunkie

You can see the cut cable to the right and then where it has been taped to another cable in another circuit to the left. Is this safe?


----------



## Stanner

Is that taped joint yet another example of this Steve's outstanding competence? 

I hope not  surely you and Ozgit must be talking about 2 completely different people who just happen to have the same first name and use the same trading name.

What a coincidence :roll: 

After seeing that picture (& after the others) I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Snunkie.

My course of action would be to find a competent repairer, have all the damage repaired and present the bill + any associated itemised costs to Steve for reimbursement. 

That doesn't look like even half decent electrical work, more like butchery.


----------



## peribro

That's the most absolutely awful bodge job that I could imagine - it's almost impossible to believe that someone could have had the nerve to do that and charge you for it. Except of course he has had the nerve because he's also put holes all over your ceiling. I agree with your husband not to take the van anywhere near him again. From a legal point of view you may prejudice your rights if you don't give him the chance to correct his mistakes - but I think I would just accept that and be prepared to write it off if he refuses to cough up.

What he has done is to splice into the heating circuit (BL6) which I'm pretty sure stays live even when the 12 V is off - hence your problem. 

Allan at Atlantic will sort it out for you and also give you any other advice or assistance you need on connecting up the solar panels or anything else - well worth a visit.


----------



## shingi

Having read this through yet again, I just have to say that I just can't believe this absolute horror story ! What IS going on? It WILL get fixed. Best wishes, MICK


----------



## Snunkie

Stanner said:


> Is that taped joint yet another example of this Steve's outstanding competence?
> 
> I hope not  surely you and Ozgit must be talking about 2 completely different people who just happen to have the same first name and use the same trading name.
> 
> What a coincidence :roll:
> 
> After seeing that picture (& after the others) I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Snunkie.
> 
> My course of action would be to find a competent repairer, have all the damage repaired and present the bill + any associated itemised costs to Steve for reimbursement.
> 
> That doesn't look like even half decent electrical work, more like butchery.


Yes I'm afraid so, this is Steve's work.

I sent the photo to Atlantic and had a long chat with Allan and he has confirmed that he has indeed wired it into a permanently live circuit which confirms our assumptions as to why the 12v won't isolate any more. In Steve's text he said that it was working when he left but it can't have been?

Allan at Atlantic charges an hourly rate of £29 per hour which I think is very reasonable considering Steve claimed that most people charge £80 per hour and that his work was much cheaper 

I really am getting very p*&&^ed off about this now. I have emailed MMC and told them the hourly rate and have asked them to cover the cost. I will ask Atlantic for an estimate of total cost.

I've had no reply as yet from my 2 emails to MMC yesterday. I WILL take this to a small claims court if they do not cooperate. I've just about had enough now.


----------



## Penquin

The next step, once you have all the information to hand, such as bills and reports, is to send them a "Letter before Action" by recorded delivery outlining what you will be claiming from them including all expenses incurred.

Such a letter sadly, may be the lever needed to get a response - to me that is the thing that is most difficult to comprehend; surely any company would want to resolve issues with customers at an early stage before opinions become hardened?

The lack of response had been commented on by many people -- some of whom must surely have been potential or actual customers...... :?

The phrase "damage limitation" seems to be being ignored, but of course, they may well have a totally different take on the entire incident - but until there is some response we do not know......

Dave


----------



## Snunkie

They did say they would come and put the holes in the roof right but because hubby refuses point blank to have him anywhere near our Motorhome again we need to get this and the electrics sorted elsewhere which is going to cost money. MMC did offer originally to refund the £20 they charged for cutting the wire and taping it to another but that's not going to cover the cost of getting it sorted though.


----------



## Penquin

I suspect that if they are NOT given the chance of sorting it themselves that any claim for costs would fail........

surely your husband would allow them to try if they can?

If they explain what they are going to do and he is unhappy then he can refuse but at that point your claim is less likely to succeed.......

Dave


----------



## cabby

The owner of the property is entitled to have whoever he chooses to do a repair, however it must be a reasonable cost and quotes would most likely asked for should it come to small claims court.

been there and done that.

cabby


----------



## Snunkie

Correction: I do apologise, I have just found a reply to my email yesterday from MMC and they did reply yesterday, sorry. It was in my spam box for some reason.


----------



## barryd

Slightly off topic but I taped our replacment water pump up like that with rubber tape when it broke in France and it was submersed in water for 3 months before we got home and got it done properly. 

Even I could have done a job like that!

£80 an hour for a mobile motorhome repair service! I think not! I remember the days I could get away with charging that much for IT work. Long gone!

Our local guy charges £30 and hour and often for me on bigger jobs less than that. I dont think even the main dealers around here charge that much.


----------



## icer

Snunkie

Sad to see the holes in the roof and hope you can find a solution.

Can I assume that the 240V works ok?

If you had a blown EBL or at least a portion of it did you expect that MMC could repair it? You seem quite astute and you have already contacted Atlantic who are specialists in this field, they will no doubt effect a repair.

Looking at the picture it would appear a temporary fix/bodge so that you could continue to use the motorhome most weekends untill you could sort it out properly.

Ian


----------



## Snunkie

barryd said:


> Slightly off topic but I taped our replacment water pump up like that with rubber tape when it broke in France and it was submersed in water for 3 months before we got home and got it done properly.
> 
> Even I could have done a job like that!
> 
> £80 an hour for a mobile motorhome repair service! I think not! I remember the days I could get away with charging that much for IT work. Long gone!
> 
> Our local guy charges £30 and hour and often for me on bigger jobs less than that. I dont think even the main dealers around here charge that much.


No Barry, he said dealers charge £80 per hour and therefore his hourly rate was good value but I never found out what his hourly rate was, other than he charged me £50 per socket for 4 sockets and 3 of those were in a row with one piece of cabling going through.


----------



## Snunkie

icer said:


> Snunkie
> 
> Sad to see the holes in the roof and hope you can find a solution.
> 
> Can I assume that the 240V works ok?
> 
> If you had a blown EBL or at least a portion of it did you expect that MMC could repair it? You seem quite astute and you have already contacted Atlantic who are specialists in this field, they will no doubt effect a repair.
> 
> Looking at the picture it would appear a temporary fix/bodge so that you could continue to use the motorhome most weekend untill you could sort it out properly.
> 
> Ian


Yes Ian, the 240v all appears to work ok. The only known problem at the moment is that we cannot isolate the 12v when we leave the van which we are used to doing. Unfortunately now everything has been wired into a live circuit we have no control over turning it on or off which makes us feel uncomfortable, as well as the bodge of a wiring job that it appears!


----------



## peribro

> *Snunkie: *
> The only known problem at the moment is that we cannot isolate the 12v when we leave the van which we are used to doing. Unfortunately now everything has been wired into a live circuit we have no control over turning it on or off which makes us feel uncomfortable, as well as the bodge of a wiring job that it appears!


Yes, you can isolate the 12V completely by activating battery separation. This isolates the batteries totally from the Electroblock. It depends what Control Panel you have as to how you activate it. If you tell me which model control panel you have I can tell you how to activate battery separation.


----------



## Snunkie

But surely then the solar panel can't charge whilst we're away from the Motorhome and there are other things that we want to remain live such as the awning light. 

We want it back how it was and how it's supposed to be. We don't want to put up with it, nor should we have to. Complete isolation is not what we want.


----------



## peribro

You were the one who said you wanted to isolate the 12V, not me!!



> The only known problem at the moment is that we cannot isolate the 12v when we leave the van which we are used to doing.


----------



## mmcservices

*MMC Services Response*

Ok Enough is enough, let's put an end to this madness.. Here is the Fuel that some of you seem to so desperately seek..

There are always TWO sides to every story and not 'squabbling' in public and keeping quiet 'may' Appear to 'some' that we are not dealing with the matter when in fact quite the opposite is true. I myself replied to Lucy by email as soon as we heard she was not happy (Incidentally, this was AFTER her post on M/H/F) We were contacted afterwards.

1) We did explain to Lucy at the initial time of enquiry that she is way out of our 'Area' and that it would not be cost effective or viable time wise for us to make the 182.6 Miles (Not mentioned previously on here?) round Trip in order to carry out the Habitation Check, this was understood at the time and price agreed (Lucy has confirmed in an email to us that this is no longer an issue as she did indeed agree this price).

2)	With regards to the sockets fitted. About a Week after Steve had completed the work, Lucy contacted him and expressed that she was unhappy with the Cost of Supplying & Fitting the Sockets (Still No mention of Holes at this point!) Lucy stated that the sockets can be found far cheaper on EBAY (a site which yes, we too may use out of work, but as a Professional Company it is not 'Common Practice' for us to search this site and Source Parts from 'Joe Bloggs' without a Guarantee. However as a gesture of Goodwill Steve Refunded Lucy £50 (Also not mentioned previously on here?). Lucy has also confirmed in an email to us that this matter is now dealt with.

3)	One Month after Steve's visit and Lucy's 'Immediate Concern' over the Pin Prick Holes left by the Damp Meter, we finally receive an email from Lucy. I straight away expressed that I was sorry to hear she is unhappy with the work carried out and that Customer Satisfaction is and has always been extremely important to us. This is why Steve 'does' have such a good reputation and was indeed Recommended to her in the first place. I also assured Lucy that we will do our utmost to Rectify the situation for her (which we are still trying to do).

4)	At the time of booking Lucy mentioned her problems with the Elektroblok and stressed that she did not have the money or desire to have the Elektroblok sent away for a costly repair. Trying to be as helpful as possible and keep costs down for Lucy, Steve advised that he would try and help, upon investigation of the Elektroblok it was obvious that it had already been load damage to the Circuit governing the sockets, this was explained to Lucy. Another wire was spliced into to provide feed to this dead circuit which controls half the sockets in the van and indeed a Gas Alarm which was installed by somebody else. Upon the day Steve is sure that this was wired to a 'Switched' Live but it may be the case that given Lucy's previous history of overloading the 12v socket circuit that a heavier gauge wire was tapped into, obviously if this is a permanent Live it is not ideal, especially as this same circuit powers up the gas alarm which presumably cannot be switched off at the unit as some can. But other than the Gas Alarm as long as things aren't left plugged in to 12v sockets (which has already been explained to Lucy) there will be no discharge on the battery.

As well as being a 'Qualified' Electrician and 'Auto' Electrician Steve is also 'VSIB' Approved and Thatcham Approved and has been fitting Alarms and Trackers for many years. The standard within the Automotive Industry for at least the last two decades has been to use 'Soldered' Joints only with regards to Electrical wiring or connections as these tend to be more reliable than any other form of connection including crimp or connection blocks, coverage should either be Electrical/Amalgamating Tape or Heat Shrink which isn't viable when splicing into an existing feed. This connection is not a 'Bodge' or 'Butchery' as previously suggested. The connection upon Lucy's Elektroblok is indeed a soldered joint, we would request that Lucy checks her Handbook to confirm that correctly rated Fuses are in the right place.

Unfortunately adding more 12v Sockets does not mean that you can use more power, obviously it is the opposite. The Load rate needs to be monitored by the customer, identifying what is being plugged in, the load of the Appliance being plugged in and when. However, if there is a 2 or 3 Amp load already on this circuit this does make it slightly more difficult for Lucy as she has not got many more Amps left to play with.

Perhaps in hind sight we should have insisted that a new Elektroblok was sourced, but we actually tried to 'Save' the customer this expense and only charged £20 As explained to Lucy we are more than happy to come back out and hopefully rectify the situation if we are at fault, this possibly could mean a reconditioned Elektroblok as there are not many Output Circuits from the Elektroblok that you can tap extra load into. We are also happy to refund her the above cost of £20 of trying to rectify the damage she had caused to this unit or we will make good connections as they originally were, the original damage was not caused by us, we only tried to look for a more cost effective way around it for the customer.

5)	Steve did also spend a lot of time with Lucy explaining how a lot of other things work in the van which Lucy has expressed she was grateful for. Steve also looked at her Reversing Camera Free of Charge (Also not mentioned previously on here?). We are not a greedy little Company that simply wishes to prey on Single Women or Old age Pensioners as previously commented on here.. Far from it, in fact the opposite is true and we go out of our way to help as much as possible and always have our customers best interests at heart, we ALWAYS try to fit customers in when we are in their area so there is no Call Out Fee involved, and hence keep costs down too.

To this day we have never had any complaints like this.. and cannot believe how this has escalated.. anyone who knows Steve will testify that he is a 'Perfectionist' and always goes above and beyond to help our customers. the fact that a customer is unhappy with work he has carried out is extremely upsetting for him as well and all we wish to do is put the matter right for Lucy.

I contacted Lucy with a date in order that we may assess and rectify any work she is unhappy with, and offered to come out on a Sunday so as to avoid any disruption to her work. 2 WEEKS later Lucy advises us that her husband does not wish for us to look at the van. However, if there is a 'Genuine' problem with the pin prick holes we would certainly like to Examine them ourselves in person, other than a 'Zoomed' in photo and certainly Rectify the situation if deemed appropriate, which I understand is our right to do so.

After reading a lot of the shocking comments on here where people have the audacity to call someone they themselves have never met before a 'Moron' and asking if we would fill the holes with 'Snot..' I feel that this is not really Constructive Criticism in any shape or form and shall not be replying further, whatever we may now be bombarded with.. (please make of that what you will).

Our only concern is and has always been in putting this matter right with our client. We remain very sorry that Lucy is unhappy and as stated previously would like to be given the opportunity to correct this.

Thank you Lucy for confirming that I did reply to your emails yesterday and that this email had apparently gone into your 'Spam' file. As mentioned in my last email to you we are going away on Thursday 19th and will return to work on Sunday 29th (which is also the date we offered you, and would still like to attend to Inspect the 'Hole' situation).

We had not expected a 2 week delay and feel that it would be fairer all round if we can reach a satisfactory conclusion before Thursday as I am sure that you too do not wish for this to drag on further and wait until our return.

Thank you to the select few who have left 'Constructive' Comments..

I do hope this has put an end to this lengthy Thread, but somehow I very much doubt it...


----------



## stewartwebr

I have been following this post with interest, although did not add comment.

Thank you for putting your side of events into print. It gives a much more "balanced" view of what is going on.

Always 2 sides to every story :roll:


----------



## Imbiber

stewartwebr said:


> Always 2 sides to every story :roll:


3 sides to every story :wink:


----------



## stewartwebr

You have lost me imbiber why 3 sides. Am I being thick?


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy

> You have lost me imbiber why 3 sides. Am I being thick?


Snunkies, MMC`s and then the Forum Members???


----------



## Imbiber

Ian_n_Suzy said:


> Snunkies, MMC`s and then the Forum Members???


Not quite, but nearly!

In my experience there are always three sides to the story.

In this case:

1. Snunkies version of events;

2. MMC's version of events;

3. The actual version of events as they took place without recourse for overlooking, forgetting-to-metion etc, etc.

So in reality the two sides will always differ slightly from the real story which is the third version :wink:


----------



## Whatton

I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.


----------



## Penquin

Thank you for that account Steve - it certainly does give a very different view of what has allegedly happened......

We do not appear to have been given as full a version as we should have IMO. Sadly, the truth is often the first casualty in any conflict......

I did state that until we have seen an account from you, it was difficult to see how to respond and we were certainly being lead to believe that no response was or had been forthcoming.....

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-2154529.html#2154529

I have also had doubts about criticising the wiring since we cannot see what is underneath the protective layer of tape - so pure conjecture is of no use at all.....

I realise that coming n here is potentially opening yourself up as a target - but that will NOT happen with me - I am very grateful to see a clear account which shows the opposite account and like you, I believe that you should be offered the chance to correct any problems that may be causing distress.

I also accept that you would not be expected to use e-bay to resource materials - too many of the products from there have proved to be non-genuine and unreliable as regards quality......

Only time will tell if this conflict can be put to rest, but certainly it seems to me that a price agreed in advance is suddenly being questioned - which is a very difficult concept to understand;

_"I went into Tescos and bought my weekly groceries, took them home and then two weeks later decided the price they had charged me was too high as I could have bought cheaper elsewhere"_ - I somehow doubt that Tesco's would be very forthcoming with a refund......

But that is the way it comes over to me, maybe I am wrong, but.....

Dave


----------



## GEMMY

Your refund happens at the till now :wink: 

tony


----------



## 100127

Whatton said:


> I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.


Steve did my hab check a few weeks ago, and I would have no hesitation in calling on him for his services.


----------



## GEMMY

It's gone quiet on the snunkie front, and the butchery department :wink: 

tony


----------



## Snunkie

GEMMY said:


> It's gone quiet on the snunkie front, and the butchery department :wink:
> 
> tony


Thank you for your comment Tony, we've been having a family dinner and I don't sit with my iPad at the table waiting for responses to my post. I am just reading through the thread now and will reply where appropriate.


----------



## 100127

GEMMY said:


> It's gone quiet on the snunkie front, and the butchery department :wink:
> 
> tony


I fink it's over Gem, roll on the next one.


----------



## Snunkie

*Re: MMC Services Response*



mmcservices said:


> Ok Enough is enough, let's put an end to this madness.. Here is the Fuel that some of you seem to so desperately seek..
> 
> There are always TWO sides to every story and not 'squabbling' in public and keeping quiet 'may' Appear to 'some' that we are not dealing with the matter when in fact quite the opposite is true. I myself replied to Lucy by email as soon as we heard she was not happy (Incidentally, this was AFTER her post on M/H/F) We were contacted afterwards.
> 
> 1) We did explain to Lucy at the initial time of enquiry that she is way out of our 'Area' and that it would not be cost effective or viable time wise for us to make the 182.6 Miles (Not mentioned previously on here?) round Trip in order to carry out the Habitation Check, this was understood at the time and price agreed (Lucy has confirmed in an email to us that this is no longer an issue as she did indeed agree this price).
> 
> YES THAT IS CORRECT. I SAID I WAS HAPPY TO PAY FOR STEVE TO TRAVEL THE EXTRA DISTANCE BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN RECOMMENDED ON HERE.
> WHEN WE DISCUSSED VIA EMAIL YOU QUOTED A CHEAPER PRICE THAN ORIGINALLY QUOTED WHICH I QUERIED AND THEN YOU SAID IT WAS A HIGHER PRICE DUE TO THE SIZE OF THE MOTORHOME, IN ADDITION TO THE EXTRA COST FOR THE DISTANCE. THIS IS NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM.
> 
> 2)	With regards to the sockets fitted. About a Week after Steve had completed the work, Lucy contacted him and expressed that she was unhappy with the Cost of Supplying & Fitting the Sockets (Still No mention of Holes at this point!) Lucy stated that the sockets can be found far cheaper on EBAY (a site which yes, we too may use out of work, but as a Professional Company it is not 'Common Practice' for us to search this site and Source Parts from 'Joe Bloggs' without a Guarantee. However as a gesture of Goodwill Steve Refunded Lucy £50 (Also not mentioned previously on here?). Lucy has also confirmed in an email to us that this matter is now dealt with.
> 
> I CONTACTED STEVE THE NEXT DAY SAYING I WAS UNHAPPY WITH THE COST OF THE SOCKETS AND TO INFORM HIM THAT THE SURROUND HAD NOT BEEN PUT ON ONE OF THE SOCKETS. HE SAID HE WOULD POST THIS TO ME TOGETHER WITH A CHEQUE FOR £50. IF YOU READ THROUGH THIS THREAD AGAIN I AM ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT I STATED THIS. I DID NOT REALISE THE EXTENT OF THE HOLES AT THUS POINT. I DID NOT SEE THEM ALL UNTIL OUR NEXT CAMPING TRIP 3 WEEKS LATER WHEN I WAS LAYING IN BED AND COULD CLEARLY SEE THE HOLES. I THEN CHECKED ELSEWHERE AND WAS HORRIFIED TO SEE SO MANY. YOU ARE WELCOME TO COME AND VIEW THEM IN PERSON.
> 
> 3)	One Month after Steve's visit and Lucy's 'Immediate Concern' over the Pin Prick Holes left by the Damp Meter, we finally receive an email from Lucy. I straight away expressed that I was sorry to hear she is unhappy with the work carried out and that Customer Satisfaction is and has always been extremely important to us. This is why Steve 'does' have such a good reputation and was indeed Recommended to her in the first place. I also assured Lucy that we will do our utmost to Rectify the situation for her (which we are still trying to do).
> 
> AGAIN AS ABOVE. I ASKED ON HERE FIRST IN CASE I WAS BEING AN IDIOT. I WASNT SURE WHAT TO EXPECT HAVING NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE. SOME ON HERE SAID THAT THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT CEILING TYPE WHICH HOLES DO NOT SHOW IN. OURS DOES NOT.
> 
> 4)	At the time of booking Lucy mentioned her problems with the Elektroblok and stressed that she did not have the money or desire to have the Elektroblok sent away for a costly repair. Trying to be as helpful as possible and keep costs down for Lucy, Steve advised that he would try and help, upon investigation of the Elektroblok it was obvious that it had already been load damage to the Circuit governing the sockets, this was explained to Lucy. Another wire was spliced into to provide feed to this dead circuit which controls half the sockets in the van and indeed a Gas Alarm which was installed by somebody else. Upon the day Steve is sure that this was wired to a 'Switched' Live but it may be the case that given Lucy's previous history of overloading the 12v socket circuit that a heavier gauge wire was tapped into, obviously if this is a permanent Live it is not ideal, especially as this same circuit powers up the gas alarm which presumably cannot be switched off at the unit as some can. But other than the Gas Alarm as long as things aren't left plugged in to 12v sockets (which has already been explained to Lucy) there will be no discharge on the battery.
> 
> I DID NOT STRESS THIS AT THE TIME OF BOOKING, NOR WAS IT MENTIONED AT THE TIME OF BOOKING BECAUSE THERE WASNT A PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM OCCURRED IN THE WEEK BEFORE STEVE WAS DUE TO COME AND DO THE HABITATION SERVICE AND I RANG HIM FROM THE CAMPSITE AND ASKED IF IT WAS SOMETHING HE COULD LOOK AT AT THE SAME TIME.
> 
> IT WAS DURING THE VISIT THAT STEVE GAVE ME THE 2 OPTIONS - REPLACE ELECTROBLOK OR DAISY CHAIN. I SAID DAISY CHAIN IF IT WAS A SAFE OPTION AS I DID NOT WANT TO SPEND OUT ON AN ELECTROBLOK.
> 
> 'Given LUCY's PREVIOUS HISTORY OF OVERLOADING THE 12v'? I HAD A 12v coffee machine plugged IN AND A COOLBOX AND THE FUSE BLEW. STEVE ADVISED THAT THIS WAS TOO MUCH DRAW. HOW IS THAT A PREVIOUS 'HISTORY'? STEVE KINDLY EXPLAINED THE AMPS AND DRAW TO ME SO I UNDERSTOOD IT. I WOULD NOT THEN OVERLOAD IT AGAIN WITH THIS INFORMATION UNLESS I WAS STUPID, WHICH I MOST CERTAINLY AM NOT.
> 
> THE GAS ALARM IS CURRENTLY PERMANENTLY LIVE AND SOMETIMES THINGS ARE LEFT PLUGGED IN AND LEFT BY THE KIDS AND WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THE OPTION TO ISOLATE THE 12V SOCKETS AS IT WAS BEFORE STEVE CAME. IT HAS DEFINITELY BEEN WIRED TO A PERMANENTLY LIVE CIRCUIT IN BL6 WHICH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
> 
> As well as being a 'Qualified' Electrician and 'Auto' Electrician Steve is also 'VSIB' Approved and Thatcham Approved and has been fitting Alarms and Trackers for many years. The standard within the Automotive Industry for at least the last two decades has been to use 'Soldered' Joints only with regards to Electrical wiring or connections as these tend to be more reliable than any other form of connection including crimp or connection blocks, coverage should either be Electrical/Amalgamating Tape or Heat Shrink which isn't viable when splicing into an existing feed. This connection is not a 'Bodge' or 'Butchery' as previously suggested. The connection upon Lucy's Elektroblok is indeed a soldered joint, we would request that Lucy checks her Handbook to confirm that correctly rated Fuses are in the right place.
> 
> Unfortunately adding more 12v Sockets does not mean that you can use more power, obviously it is the opposite. The Load rate needs to be monitored by the customer, identifying what is being plugged in, the load of the Appliance being plugged in and when. However, if there is a 2 or 3 Amp load already on this circuit this does make it slightly more difficult for Lucy as she has not got many more Amps left to play with.
> 
> STEVE DID EXPLAIN THIS AND I EXPLAINED THAT I DIDNT WANT THE EXTRA SOCKETS TO PLUG MORE IN BUT FOR CONVENIENCE OF LOCATION. WE HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL OF WHAT WE PLUG IN SINCE THAT ONE PROBLEM WITH THE 12v COFFEE MACHINE. LUCKILY IT WAS JUST THE CIRCUIT WHICH WAS DAMAGED AND NOT ANY OTHER EQUIPMENT.
> 
> Perhaps in hind sight we should have insisted that a new Elektroblok was sourced, but we actually tried to 'Save' the customer this expense and only charged £20 As explained to Lucy we are more than happy to come back out and hopefully rectify the situation if we are at fault, this possibly could mean a reconditioned Elektroblok as there are not many Output Circuits from the Elektroblok that you can tap extra load into. We are also happy to refund her the above cost of £20 of trying to rectify the damage she had caused to this unit or we will make good connections as they originally were, the original damage was not caused by us, we only tried to look for a more cost effective way around it for the customer.
> 
> I THINK I DID STATE ON THIS THREAD SOMEWHERE THAT YOU OFFERED TO REFUND THE £20 BUT I WILL CHECK THAT
> 
> 5)	Steve did also spend a lot of time with Lucy explaining how a lot of other things work in the van which Lucy has expressed she was grateful for. Steve also looked at her Reversing Camera Free of Charge (Also not mentioned previously on here?). We are not a greedy little Company that simply wishes to prey on Single Women or Old age Pensioners as previously commented on here.. Far from it, in fact the opposite is true and we go out of our way to help as much as possible and always have our customers best interests at heart, we ALWAYS try to fit customers in when we are in their area so there is no Call Out Fee involved, and hence keep costs down too.
> 
> YES HE DID AND I WAS VERY GRATEFUL. HOWEVER, I SPENT EVERY MINUTE THAT STEVE WAS HERE HELPING HIM. I REMOVED AND REPLACED PANELS. I USED A GADGET I HAD TO TEST ALL THE SOCKETS AND CONFIRM WHETHER THEY WERE ON OR OFF.
> I BORROWED A FLEXIBLE ROD OFF STEVE WHICH I USED TO POLE ALL THE CABLING THROUGH FOR THE 3 SOCKETS IN THE GARAGE AND I WAS LITERALLY HANDS ON ALL DAY. NOT ONLY TO HELP REDUCE THE TIME HE HAD TO SPEND HERE BUT BECAUSE I WAS KEEN TO LEARN AND I ASKED HIM IF THAT WOULD BE OK. I ALSO MADE MANY CUPS OF TEA FOR HIM THROUGHOUT THE DAY, FREE OF CHARGE!
> 
> I'M NOT A SINGLE WOMAN AND CERTAINLY NOT PREY. I AM A COMPETENT, INTELLIGENT PERSON.
> 
> To this day we have never had any complaints like this.. and cannot believe how this has escalated.. anyone who knows Steve will testify that he is a 'Perfectionist' and always goes above and beyond to help our customers. the fact that a customer is unhappy with work he has carried out is extremely upsetting for him as well and all we wish to do is put the matter right for Lucy.
> 
> I SPENT SEVERAL HOURS WITH STEVE AND HE DID APPEAR TO BE A PERFECTIONIST, AS AM I, AND WE DISCUSSED THIS SO I WAS EVEN MORE SURPRISED ABOUT THE HOLES IN THE CEILING. I HAVE ALSO MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD HOW KNOWLEDGABLE AND HELPFUL HE WAS.
> 
> I contacted Lucy with a date in order that we may assess and rectify any work she is unhappy with, and offered to come out on a Sunday so as to avoid any disruption to her work. 2 WEEKS later Lucy advises us that her husband does not wish for us to look at the van. However, if there is a 'Genuine' problem with the pin prick holes we would certainly like to Examine them ourselves in person, other than a 'Zoomed' in photo and certainly Rectify the situation if deemed appropriate, which I understand is our right to do so.
> 
> PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COME AND LOOK AT THEM, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. MY HUSBAND IS MORE CONCERNED ABOUT ANY ATTEMPTS AT RECTIFICATION MAKING IT WORSE. HE DIDN'T MEET STEVE SO ONLY HAS THE HOLES AND THE VISIBLE REPAIR TO THE CIRCUIT TO GO BY.
> 
> After reading a lot of the shocking comments on here where people have the audacity to call someone they themselves have never met before a 'Moron' and asking if we would fill the holes with 'Snot..' I feel that this is not really Constructive Criticism in any shape or form and shall not be replying further, whatever we may now be bombarded with.. (please make of that what you will).
> 
> YES A LOT OF THR COMMENTS HAVE BEEN OTT AND NOT AT ALL HELPFUL
> 
> Our only concern is and has always been in putting this matter right with our client. We remain very sorry that Lucy is unhappy and as stated previously would like to be given the opportunity to correct this.
> 
> THANK YOU
> 
> Thank you Lucy for confirming that I did reply to your emails yesterday and that this email had apparently gone into your 'Spam' file. As mentioned in my last email to you we are going away on Thursday 19th and will return to work on Sunday 29th (which is also the date we offered you, and would still like to attend to Inspect the 'Hole' situation).
> 
> I HAVE TRIED TO STICK TO THE FACTS AND HAVE MADE A POINT OF MENTIONING EVERYTHING RELEVANT. IF I AM WRONG THEN I MAKE A POINT OF STATING IT. I IMMEDIATELY CAME ON HERE TO PUT THAT I HAD IN FACT GOT A REPLY. PLEASE GO AHEAD WITH VISITING ON THE DATE YOU SPECIFIED. I WILL DEAL WITH MY HUSBAND.
> 
> We had not expected a 2 week delay and feel that it would be fairer all round if we can reach a satisfactory conclusion before Thursday as I am sure that you too do not wish for this to drag on further and wait until our return.
> 
> Thank you to the select few who have left 'Constructive' Comments..
> 
> I do hope this has put an end to this lengthy Thread, but somehow I very much doubt it...


* 

I HAVE REPLIED TO ALL OF THE POINTS IN CAPITALS SO YOU CSN SEE WHICH BITS I'VE WRITTEN. I AM NOT SHOUTING IN CASE THAT'S HOW IT COMES ACROSS.

MY ONLY GRIPE IS THE HOLES AND THE 12v ISOLATION PROBLEM. PLEASE GO AHEAD AND RECTIFY THESE. I WOULD PREFER YOU TO COME AS WELL PLEASE MICHAELA.*


----------



## Snunkie

Whatton said:


> I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.


Excuse me, dirty washing? Everything I have posted has been precise and genuine. There had been no dirty washing aired thank you. I have posted photos of the problems for all to see. Everything I have posted IS fact. It didn't occur to me to mention the things that I didn't have a problem with!


----------



## Snunkie

peribro said:


> You were the one who said you wanted to isolate the 12V, not me!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only known problem at the moment is that we cannot isolate the 12v when we leave the van which we are used to doing.
Click to expand...

Yes but just the bits that were able to be isolated before, as explained.


----------



## Snunkie

Penquin said:


> Thank you for that account Steve - it certainly does give a very different view of what has allegedly happened......
> 
> We do not appear to have been given as full a version as we should have IMO. Sadly, the truth is often the first casualty in any conflict......





Snunkie said:


> I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE DETAILS OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS A PROBLEM, AS WELL AS SAYING THAT STEVE WAS ALSO VERY HELPFUL. I DIDNT SEE THE REQUIREMENT TO NOTE EVERYTHING THAT I DIDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. (Caps just to show my replies I am not shouting)





Penquin said:


> I did state that until we have seen an account from you, it was difficult to see how to respond and we were certainly being lead to believe that no response was or had been forthcoming.....
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-2154529.html#2154529
> 
> I have also had doubts about criticising the wiring since we cannot see what is underneath the protective layer of tape - so pure conjecture is of no use at all.....
> 
> I realise that coming n here is potentially opening yourself up as a target - but that will NOT happen with me - I am very grateful to see a clear account which shows the opposite account and like you, I believe that you should be offered the chance to correct any problems that may be causing distress.
> 
> I also accept that you would not be expected to use e-bay to resource materials - too many of the products from there have proved to be non-genuine and unreliable as regards quality......
> 
> Only time will tell if this conflict can be put to rest, but certainly it seems to me that a price agreed in advance is suddenly being questioned - which is a very difficult concept to understand;





Snunkie said:


> THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRICE. THIS IS ABOUT RECTIFYING THE 2 PROBLEMS WE HAVE. I ALREADY CLEARLY STATED THAT I WASNT HAPPY WITH THE COST OF THE SOCKETS AT £200 for FOUR SOCKETS AND THAT STEVE REFUNDED ME £50 VIA CHEQUE.





Penquin said:


> _"I went into Tescos and bought my weekly groceries, took them home and then two weeks later decided the price they had charged me was too high as I could have bought cheaper elsewhere"_ - I somehow doubt that Tesco's would be very forthcoming with a refund......





Snunkie said:


> IN TESCOS I WOULD KNOW WHAT IS A HIGH PRICE AND WHAT IS NOT AS I REGULARLY GROCERY SHOP. HOWEVER I HAVE BEVER HAD SOCKETS FITTED IN A MOTORHOME BEFORE.





Penquin said:


> But that is the way it comes over to me, maybe I am wrong, but.....


Dave[/quote]


----------



## Snunkie

Snunkie said:


> Thanks everyone. I will contact him on Monday and point him in the direction of this thread and ask what he can/will do about the damage. I paid £470 in total for a habitation check inc gaslow pressure test, 4 sockets and for the electrics to be checked. He refunded £50 of that after I complained about the cost of the sockets. He said they cost him £20 each to buy, but the most I can find the same socket being sold for is £8.99. He charged me £50 per socket stating that most dealers charge. £80 per hour, but having worked that out that would have been cheaper! I also helped with much of the work!
> I asked repeatedly his much the sockets would cost me and he kept saying 'not that much'. Now I'm left with a load of damage to my ceiling and no certainty as to whether I'm damp free or not if the meter was used incorrectly.
> 
> Absolutely fuming at this point!


For information. I did not hide that fact. Here is the thread where I stated he had refunded me £50 towards the sockets


----------



## GEMMY

This is like a 'gassing' thread :wink: 

tony


----------



## Snunkie

I am really quite saddened by some of the comments that have been left on here. I was unavailable this evening until late and immediately there are comments about my absence and accusing me of 'airing my dirty washing'

This is not a school playground. If you can't comment sensibly and constructively then quite frankly don't bother. There is no need to slag anyone off. This is a motorhome forum and I had queries about problems with my motorhome which I needed advice on before contacting the company. I do not expect to be slated for it, or for anyone else to be slated and treated in this manner. You are all old enough to know better aren't you? 

I have read through every single one of my posts again and not one of them is incorrect. Everything I have said is factual and I'm pretty p1ssed off to be having to explain myself.


----------



## Snunkie

Blobsta said:


> Whatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve did my hab check a few weeks ago, and I would have no hesitation in calling on him for his services.
Click to expand...

I didn't have a problem with the quality of the Hab check.


----------



## Jamsieboy

Snunkie said:


> Blobsta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve did my hab check a few weeks ago, and I would have no hesitation in calling on him for his services.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't have a problem with the quality of the Hab check.
Click to expand...

Yes you did Snunkie - holes in the roof.
I think the post by Steves company provided a different perspective and that is no bad thing. Why - well because only having one side could well have caused Steve and his company continued bad publicity and loss of business.
You invited comments when you posted.
In the same vein I made a post a few days ago about service intervals and was lectured and more or less told if I could afford a Van I should not be worried about spending a few quid on a service. I was not worried about the cost but seeking advice on what others do.
It comes with the territory that is known as an online Forum.
Many helpful posts, some not so and some rude. :wink:


----------



## Penquin

Dear Snunkie,

you have quoted me in your post above;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-2156849.html#2156849

but you appear to have added some sentences to what I posted;



> *snunkie added; * I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE DETAILS OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS A PROBLEM, AS WELL AS SAYING THAT STEVE WAS ALSO VERY HELPFUL. I DIDNT SEE THE REQUIREMENT TO NOTE EVERYTHING THAT I DIDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. (Caps just to show my replies I am not shouting)
> 
> THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRICE. THIS IS ABOUT RECTIFYING THE 2 PROBLEMS WE HAVE. I ALREADY CLEARLY STATED THAT I WASNT HAPPY WITH THE COST OF THE SOCKETS AT £200 for FOUR SOCKETS AND THAT STEVE REFUNDED ME £50 VIA CHEQUE
> 
> IN TESCOS I WOULD KNOW WHAT IS A HIGH PRICE AND WHAT IS NOT AS I REGULARLY GROCERY SHOP. HOWEVER I HAVE BEVER HAD SOCKETS FITTED IN A MOTORHOME BEFORE.


Those additions make that post *NOT* a quote from me, may I suggest that you edit the post and use the following for your insertions;

If you type [ quote] (but without the initial space) and then [ /quote] at the end of what you want to quote it will appear in a quote box (once again no spaces in the [ /quote]. If you want to attribute it to me, after you have typed the [ quote]type [ b] Penquin said; [ /b] (as before without the spaces).

That way you can insert multiple quotes into your response without appearing to have added those sentences to my post.

I regret to say that it is *NOT* acceptable to leave it as it is so I am asking you to edit it and remove the ambiguity. Sadly the way it has happened is due entirely to a fault in MHF at present which has been there for some time......

As a response to the points that you have added, may I ask whether you had only asked the one company about the potential costs or had asked others (before or after the fitting) since there have been several threads on here commenting on the high price of extra sockets over the past few years - it is obviously not a cheap option as it is labour intensive and does require materials of reliable quality. Hence why I did not use materials sourced from e-bay when I wanted an extra socket fitted....

I do agree that the initial problem of the holes in the roof lining has *NOT* been addressed in detail and we are still no wiser about why those have appeared....

I still hope that this can be resolved as I said in my post;



> *Penquin said; *Only time will tell if this conflict can be put to rest


for that to happen IMO he needs to be given access to the vehicle to allow him to sort out the reported problem of holes in the roof lining.

Dave


----------



## Snunkie

Jamsieboy said:


> Snunkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blobsta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take my previous post back about the firm being dodgy. Sounds like we've only been told what the OP wants us to hear. Shame her dirty washing has to be aired here. Just goes to show that you shouldn't take everything posted as fact really.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve did my hab check a few weeks ago, and I would have no hesitation in calling on him for his services.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't have a problem with the quality of the Hab check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes you did Snunkie - holes in the roof.
> I think the post by Steves company provided a different perspective and that is no bad thing. Why - well because only having one side could well have caused Steve and his company continued bad publicity and loss of business.
> You invited comments when you posted.
> In the same vein I made a post a few days ago about service intervals and was lectured and more or less told if I could afford a Van I should not be worried about spending a few quid on a service. I was not worried about the cost but seeking advice on what others do.
> It comes with the territory that is known as an online Forum.
> Many helpful posts, some not so and some rude. :wink:
Click to expand...

Yes you're quite right. The holes in the ceiling. Sorry, was feeling very upset last night. I'm going to my Uncle's funeral today. I wasn't thinking straight.


----------



## Snunkie

Penquin said:


> Dear Snunkie,
> 
> you have quoted me in your post above;
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-2156849.html#2156849
> 
> but you appear to have added some sentences to what I posted;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *snunkie added; * I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE DETAILS OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS A PROBLEM, AS WELL AS SAYING THAT STEVE WAS ALSO VERY HELPFUL. I DIDNT SEE THE REQUIREMENT TO NOTE EVERYTHING THAT I DIDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. (Caps just to show my replies I am not shouting)
> 
> THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRICE. THIS IS ABOUT RECTIFYING THE 2 PROBLEMS WE HAVE. I ALREADY CLEARLY STATED THAT I WASNT HAPPY WITH THE COST OF THE SOCKETS AT £200 for FOUR SOCKETS AND THAT STEVE REFUNDED ME £50 VIA CHEQUE
> 
> IN TESCOS I WOULD KNOW WHAT IS A HIGH PRICE AND WHAT IS NOT AS I REGULARLY GROCERY SHOP. HOWEVER I HAVE BEVER HAD SOCKETS FITTED IN A MOTORHOME BEFORE.
> 
> 
> 
> Those additions make that post *NOT* a quote from me, may I suggest that you edit the post and use the following for your insertions;
> 
> If you type [ quote] (but without the initial space) and then [ /quote] at the end of what you want to quote it will appear in a quote box (once again no spaces in the [ /quote]. If you want to attribute it to me, after you have typed the [ quote]type [ b] Penquin said; [ /b] (as before without the spaces).
> 
> That way you can insert multiple quotes into your response without appearing to have added those sentences to my post.
> 
> I regret to say that it is *NOT* acceptable to leave it as it is so I am asking you to edit it and remove the ambiguity. Sadly the way it has happened is due entirely to a fault in MHF at present which has been there for some time......
> 
> As a response to the points that you have added, may I ask whether you had only asked the one company about the potential costs or had asked others (before or after the fitting) since there have been several threads on here commenting on the high price of extra sockets over the past few years - it is obviously not a cheap option as it is labour intensive and does require materials of reliable quality. Hence why I did not use materials sourced from e-bay when I wanted an extra socket fitted....
> 
> I do agree that the initial problem of the holes in the roof lining has *NOT* been addressed in detail and we are still no wiser about why those have appeared....
> 
> I still hope that this can be resolved as I said in my post;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Penquin said; *Only time will tell if this conflict can be put to rest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> for that to happen IMO he needs to be given access to the vehicle to allow him to sort out the reported problem of holes in the roof lining.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Sorry Dave, I thought I had put there that I had written my responses in capitals so you could see which bits I had written but I am mistaken, it was on the MMC reply that I did that. I am happy to remove it. Apologies.


----------



## rayrecrok

Hey up.

Ah the ebb and flow of a topic...

I have not commented on this topic as I don't feel commenting would help...

I feel some businesses need outing others don't need the bad press.. 

A couple of years ago Brown fools got a slating and rightly so, these guys in your thread slipped up, then held their hands up and said they would rectify it.. Now if every other post was from our lot saying what a set of tossers fair enough, but! admittedly not reading every reply but enough to get the gist, most folk say they are OK and will continue to use them..

So. 

Let it rest love get it fixed and move on.

ray.


----------



## Snunkie

Penquin

No, I did not research the cost of sockets first unfortunately. It was a last minute sort of thing and Steve advised that he does carry sockets on his van. I did ask several times for the cost and was each time told 'not that much'. I should have pinned him down to a price and that is entirely my fault. He appeared to be doing a good thorough job and we had a good chat about business etc and I just put my trust in him. Perhaps my idea of not that much and his idea of not that much are quite different but that is my fault for not asking for an actual price, though it wasn't for not trying. I asked at least 3 times. I know that may sound ridiculous but I am confident that Steve will confirm that. Towards the end of the day he advised that the sockets were £20 each so I had that information but didn't know the fitting cost. I was upset about the total cost given that I had done a lot of the work with him. Mainly because he had a long journey home and I wanted to make sure everything got done but also because, as said before, I am very interested in learning all of this stuff. Initially I wanted just one socket, then I asked for 3 more together in the garage. However, this has all been dealt with and as I stated Steve kindly refunded me £50 for this. 

I do want the holes in the ceiling sorted and I do want the electrics looked at and I have emailed MMC and agreed to them coming on Sunday 29th June to do this. 

Could we put an end to this thread now please. I wish I had never asked advice in the first place.


----------

