# 240v from engine?



## lifeson (Sep 13, 2010)

Is there a device that will give me a 240v ac output whilst the engine is running?

Problem:
I have a teenage daughter who comes with us on hols (grudgingly - but thats another story!) and she gets annoyed when we stop at places with no electric but all she uses it for is a hair dryer. Everything else in the van is 12v and we have 2 x 110 amp batteries and a 80w solar panel

I know I can get an inverter that connects to the leisure batteries but to run an hairdryer I would need quite a substantial inverter, plus I assume it would take a large chunk of the remaining charge?

My caravan friend takes a generator with him again just for a hairdryer.

So if the generator is an engine with a device to produce 240v why can't I connect a device to the engine (alternator output?) to produce 240v while the engine is ticking over?

Or is the answer still an inverter with a B2B charger?

Edit
Found this in Australia but cant find anything else similar UK based
Unipower


----------



## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

AS far as I am aware, the only economical way of getting 240v (220v) is via an Inverter or Generator. I bought a cheap generator from Aldi that says (says) it gives an 800watt output. This cost around £50+ . Searching ebay you could better that I am sure.
On the other hand you could always pop in to a variety of stops with power sockets and save the cash.
"Cup of tea please! Oh and can I use your toilets please?"
"Yes! the one with a power socket!"
"Whats that?"
"No! not me; the young lady with the wet hair!"
Alan


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

We have a Ring 2100W Inverter mounted under our passenger seat (the rubbish Fiat Jack has been replaced with a Trolley Jack in the back).

This is connected directly to the cab battery under the floor via 0AWG cable and a 'battery isolation' style switch mounted in the side of the seat base to ensure it is off.

My girlfriend uses her 2000w hairdryer (which according to the handy LED display on the inverter only actually draws 1700W) every other day without fail with no issues for the last two months away. It also works with hair straigtners or anything else you want to throw at it.

You can only feasibly use it while the engine is running as it draws so much power - I certainly wouldn't want to subject my leisure batteries to that kind of drain. When it is in use the ECU notices the power drain and will increase the revs to just above tick over to compensate.

We struggled for a year with low wattage inverters, low wattage hair dryers that took ages to use but the Ring item is an excellent bit of kit and fits perfectly under the passenger seat, just flipping down the front to access the sockets.

It's not pure sine and it's a big bit of kit but it does the job excellently:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/320707693671

I'm about to do a blog on it actually, just haven't got around to it. Will update when done


----------



## lifeson (Sep 13, 2010)

Dont want a generator - no space and too heavy. Plus I already have a 2.3 l engine which to me should be capable of producing sufficient power.

Bit more searching I have found that Dometic do a system called Travel Power that looks just the job but cant find a price yet.


----------



## Detourer (May 9, 2005)

In our other life, when our tours were mostly for the 4xi4 owner market, I seem to remember that there was a company who did Genes that run off an extra engine pulley. They also did engine driven welding units and compressors.

Perhaps look in the 4x4 and boat mags.


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

lifeson said:


> Dont want a generator - no space and too heavy. Plus I already have a 2.3 l engine which to me should be capable of producing sufficient power.


Did you read my post, Lifeson?


----------



## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

8)

http://www.hammerkauf.de/en/Camping...avel-Power-3-5-9103000000-en-language-en.html

tony


----------



## lifeson (Sep 13, 2010)

Addie said:


> lifeson said:
> 
> 
> > Dont want a generator - no space and too heavy. Plus I already have a 2.3 l engine which to me should be capable of producing sufficient power.
> ...


Not until after I had replied to rosalan and searched for other hair drying solutions. Using the existing blow air system looks like another great idea with a fatal flaw - it doesnt work :lol:

Looks like the inverter is the way to go.
The dometic unit is nearly £3000 :lol:


----------



## cabra (May 11, 2005)

*240 volt from engine*

Is there a problem having a 12v hair dryer?


----------



## lifeson (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: 240 volt from engine*



cabra said:


> Is there a problem having a 12v hair dryer?


By all accounts they are useful as an asthmatic mouse breathing on you!


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: 240 volt from engine*



cabra said:


> Is there a problem having a 12v hair dryer?


We've owned 3 types and I can tell you for nothing that I've had hotter farts!  8O


----------



## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

I am not being facetious, but when weighing up the costs of some of the alternatives, getting back to the basic problem of drying hair and needing hot air. Is it feasable to use or adapt the hot air blown through the heaters of your vehicle. I had not considered it before but £ for £ the advantages of your own engine heaters could solve the initial problem with a little ingenuity, perhaps devising a clip on flexible hose to one blower.
Alan


----------



## Losos (Oct 28, 2009)

lifeson said:


> So if the generator is an engine with a device to produce 240v *why can't I connect a device to the engine to produce 240v while the engine is ticking over*?


Well the answer is *you can* but think about the mechanics of the system.
1) You would need some kind of driveshaft from the engine to the generator
2) Said drive shaft would need to be 'quick connect' which do exist but are very expensive
3) The safety implications are huge, I doubt you'd get it through H&S
4) You would need to lug the gene from back each time 
5) The electrical output would likely need regulating to compensate for engine revs variations

Well that's just what comes to mind, it's not a runner, if it was I think someone would be selling them now 

PS You would use a lot of diesel for not much power :!:


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

rosalan said:


> I am not being facetious, but when weighing up the costs of some of the alternatives, getting back to the basic problem of drying hair and needing hot air. Is it feasable to use or adapt the hot air blown through the heaters of your vehicle. I had not considered it before but £ for £ the advantages of your own engine heaters could solve the initial problem with a little ingenuity, perhaps devising a clip on flexible hose to one blower.
> Alan


Someone on here spent a long time trying to devise such a device - and failed. I value my time (and sanity) and I know it's better spent elsewhere rather then boding together a device to save a few quid when a better 'off the shelf' solution already exists.

Granted £200 seem's a lot to some in order to 'just dry hair' but the inverter will also power anything else thrown at it and furthermore once it's finished with can be sold on. The convinence, time saving, and brownie points for allowing my girlfriend her hair-dryer from home in the middle of nowhere is worth it.

I offset it against the freedom of never having to go near a site / EHU which if you think about it would pay for itself in a week or so.

Laughable for some, I know, but if it increases the enjoyment of your holiday for your partner, daughter, whatever (and thus you) then so be it.

A satalite system to watch all the rubbish on telly from home while you're exploring a foreign country, now THAT's a waste of money :twisted:


----------



## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

*One word of caution*

Hi Lifeson, one word of caution, you will be pulling 206 amps worst case from the engine battery with a 2100 watt inverter, make sure the engines fitted alternator will cope with that level of draw, for example my 4x4 has an alternator that provides 180 amp peak, my MH (a Yank) has two alternators each provides 210 amps so they are available. If you have a typical standard 60 amp which I very much doubt then I give it 5 minutes before it turns it toes up, it will surely have been up rated by the MH manufacturer to cope with the 12 volts loads, but to what?

Where did I get 206 amps from - simples: I = P ÷ E (AMPS = Watts / Voltage) Example: 2,100 WATTS + efficiency factor rule of thumb 0.85 (2100/0.85) = 2470w divided by 12v = 205.88 AMPS [efficiency factor - never buy an inverter rated at the watts you need, as all inverters have an efficiency factor of between 0.85 and 0.9, in other words due to internal overheads they lose that amount capacity]

The other option which I was going to suggest is the old 4X4 solution noted by Detourer above, or more recently the narrow boat solutions and fit an auxiliary belt driven alternator to the engine that produces 2 or 3KVA, i.e. 2000 or 3000 watts at 240volts.

Hope that helps?


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: One word of caution*



Touchwood_RV said:


> If you have a typical standard 60 amp which I very much doubt then I give it 5 minutes before it turns it toes up, it will surely have been up rated by the MH manufacturer to cope with the 12 volts loads, but to what?


The X250 WITH Air-Con is fitted with a 140A alternator, without Air-Con is 110A or similar.

Remember you are not drawing current solely from the alternator - you have a 110AH cab battery in play as well. All in all more then sufficient for circa 5 minutes use.


----------



## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

How about one of these


----------



## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

ATTN ALL MEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wife / Girlfriend / daughters want a hairdryer in the van ??

Could our problems be over ?????????????

http://www.ioneat.co.uk/home.html

Gas powered hair dryer .....


----------



## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

tonka said:


> ATTN ALL MEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Wife / Girlfriend / daughters want a hairdryer in the van ??
> 
> Could our problems be over ?????????????
> ...


Interesting. They are only 400watts and I guess the AA batteries are used to power the motor that provides the air flow.

I guess it's better than no hairdryer but I doubt it will satisfy!!!!


----------



## tonka (Apr 24, 2006)

Well I suddenly thought.. I have had this dilema when the wife wants to dry her hair and hate connecting up the big invertor.
However she has a Braun gas powered styling brush thingy whotsit.. So why not gas powered for heat and battery for the air blowing..
Did a search and it's already a patented idea and that site lists them although "out of stock".. Also just found a note on a DOG forum of someone that has some and used them to dry a big shaggy dog !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

and.. it get worse..
http://travelhairdryer.co.uk/category/travel-hair-dryers/

a website for travel hairdryers..


----------



## johnthompson (Jul 29, 2010)

My wife runs a 1500w hair drier from our 1600w inverter coupled to the leisure batteries with no problem at all. Being full time it has to work. After all it is only on for a re lately short period.


----------



## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

*Re: One word of caution*



Addie said:


> Remember you are not drawing current solely from the alternator - you have a 110AH cab battery in play as well. All in all more then sufficient for circa 5 minutes use.


Sorry Addie you missed the point, an Alternator will attempt to supply amperage to match the load, and therefore a small one will run at maximum all the time and will give up very quickly.


----------



## voyagerstan (Aug 6, 2010)

hi wonder if touchwood has vested interests ????
stan :?


----------



## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Teenage Daughters*

Dreadlocks or Campsite shower block sockets for our Daughters.

Much Cheaper.

(but we did have an inverter that did 1000kW's)

TM


----------



## TDG (May 26, 2009)

Bill_H said:


> How about ......


A number 1 all over :?: :wink:


----------



## Addie (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Teenage Daughters*



teemyob said:


> Dreadlocks or Campsite shower block sockets for our Daughters.


Not if you offset the cost of a site against the ability to free camp anywhere 8)


----------



## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

voyagerstan said:


> hi wonder if touchwood has vested interests ????
> stan :?


No I don't and I take personal offence to that statement


----------



## Stormycat (Aug 9, 2007)

I got hubby to put a Silverline 2000W inverter in and I use a 1200W Babyliss hairdrier. No problems at all. We have 2 leisure batteries it is connected up to. He always checks the batteries after I have used it, never dip at all  

Handy thing the inverter, I brought my 300W small electric chopper in to make a paste for my Thai curry last weekend, so it has it's benefits for him too - his tummy :lol:


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Anyone come across a 'RediLine' rotary converter...???

I fitted one to an old Winnebago in 1990 that only kicked in when it sensed a load. It was very efficient and could power up to 2500 watts.

Fraid I sold it with the Winny and I'm sure the buyer didn't know what to do with it. Regret it now as it was a very expensive item.

Ray.


----------

