# Bad drivers



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

Hi

Is it me or are driving standards getting worse and worse? 

This weekend I have covered about 400 mostly motorway miles. At one point on the M1 on Saturday, I "undertook" humpteen people in the left hand land as they were all quite happy to sit at 50 mph - and less in one case, in the middle lane. Not sure what the legal position is here, but if I move into the right hand lane doing about 65 mph with the motorhome, I am then causing "baulking" of traffic behind me. 

Driving through Burton on Trent last night, I approached a roundabout with a "keep clear" area just before it. Obviously, I need two or three car lengths to clear the "keep clear" area, but as soon as I left a space, someone jumped in there, effectively meaning I would never have got moving, without then blocking the keep clear area. 

Finally, some idiot in a red Ford Escort estate decided to cut across the front of me on another roundabout, but then collided with another car. 

I know another MHF'er is considering cameras that can record movement and be used whilst the vehicle is in motion. I am giving this some serious though. 

A number of times I was in the left hand lane and indicated to move right on the motorway. There was a car in the middle lane and the right hand lane was clear. Do you think the car had the courtesy to move to the right. Don't be daft. It is very easy for the MultiJet to lose speed and regain it, but not so for a lorry etc. The whole point of me checking the right hand lane is clear is in the hope the car will shift. 

I think it is time to start driving with more "Neopolitan" skill!

I can once recall hammering down the motorway at 70 mph and I overtook a car and caravan. On arrival at the campsite, the same caravan rolled in about 10 minutes later and gave me some gip for driving too fast. Strange, as I thought that speed was legal! 

Rant over. 

Russell


----------



## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

Under taking is against the law according to the highway code, but I am sure we have all done for the same reason. 

I don't know why the motorway police don't clamp down on the people who hog the central lane no matter what their speed is.

We went up the M25 a month ago and the number of times we where cut up by drivers slicing across the traffic to exit the motorway. 

Andy


----------



## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

I find the M6 a VERY aggresive motorway. I drove from Lands End to EDI, Saturday, and the number of w*nkers, and I was always doing 5 to 10 mph more than the left lane, so I stayed in the middle lane. If there was a space in the left, I would take it.

Anyway, the number of FOOLS who would drive at what seemed like 95MPH, until i could see the spots on their face, before slamming their brakes, waiting for a gap on the right, it was insane. It made me angry, less than a metre between cars at 70mph is not on.

Pot kettle black with me I'm afraid thoigh, I have done it myself and its not clever, but road rage works both ways, its scary.

Gary.


----------



## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

inkey-2008 said:


> Under taking is against the law according to the highway code, but I am sure we have all done for the same reason.
> 
> I don't know why the motorway police don't clamp down on the people who hog the central lane no matter what their speed is.
> 
> ...


The thing is, you should never need to "cut up", just slow down, and move behind instead.

I stayed in the central lane most of the way home, but I was always going slightly faster than those in the left. Therefore, surely the correct position for me is centre?

I did pull into the left if a safe gap emerged, but more often than not, after 20 or so seconds, I would need to pull back out to overtake.

Gary.


----------



## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Middle lane*

The chances are, that these "middle lane Melvinss" put their foot down when you move to the right to overtake them.

Russell


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Russell - don't be fooled by the fact that all these people have passed their driving test - it doesn't make them good drivers, nor does it guarantee any level of intelligence. 
As in many walks of life, there are those that are more skilled than others.
I'm legally qualified to tow a monster caravan through the streets of Milan but I bet I'd make a real hash of it.  
No doubt, when shopping in your temple of Tesco, you've come face to face with people who can't drive a shopping trolley yet have their car parked outside  

Be safe and assume all others drivers are on their maiden outing.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I think driving standards are getting better AND worse. Let me explain. They are getting polarised. IMHO, and this is not PC but you call it as you see it according to your own experience:

Getting worse: BMW, Audi, Golf GTI, motorway "repmobile" drivers, girls/ young women with tunnel vision, make-up to apply and texts to answer, and boys/ young men with passengers to impress with their command of the road and booming ICE.

Getting better: everyone else. Courtesy at road junctions (excluding roundabouts with lack of signalling) and filtering/zipping is much better than it was.

But you are not going to solve the middle-lane problem until the law is changed to allow undertaking as in the States. I'd also like to see pilots in the South-East that try some of the States and Channel Islands practices, like 4-way stop, filtering-in-turn yellow boxes at junctions, and a reduction in street signage by using road markings.

Dave


----------



## Technophobe (Jul 31, 2007)

IIRC the Highway Code prohibits undertaking "unless traffic is moving slowly in lanes". My feeling is that the DoT should give serious consideration to adopting the US system where traffic can move independently in lanes rather than be forced to slow for mid-lane crawlers or cut across 2 lanes to overtake.

As far as driving standards are concerned, I do think things are worse these days, although remember my mother learning to drive in the early 1960's and declaring that it taught her to swear - so standards of driving may not have been too impressive back then. We do tend to look back to the past with somewhat rose-tinted glasses and remember things differently from how they actually were.

Jon


----------



## whistlinggypsy (May 1, 2005)

> This weekend I have covered about 400 mostly motorway miles. At one point on the M1 on Saturday, I "undertook" humpteen people in the left hand land as they were all quite happy to sit at 50 mph - and less in one case, in the middle lane. Not sure what the legal position is here,


Russell, i understand your frustration about lane hogging but undertaking is a very dangerous thing and of course is illegal, i did once years ago travel 10 miles trying to get past a old dear in a morris minor who would not move from the central lane and was doing a very steady 40mph, my truck easily kept up her pace and all the flashing of lights and blowing of very loud air horns did nothing too deter this super gran.

In the end i undertook her and sailed away into the wide blue yonder leaving her still sat there holding up a huge convoy of vehicles.

A few miles down the motorway i was pulled by the police and warned of impending prosecution because of my undertaking manoeuvre, then super gran was also pulled along with a couple more trucks and after a lengthy bolli**ing by the police we where allowed to proceed.

It still happens as you say and can be so annoying but patience is the key word.

Bob


----------



## Technophobe (Jul 31, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> you are not going to solve the middle-lane problem until the law is changed to allow undertaking as in the States.
> Dave


Ah Dave - you got there before me!

Jon


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

I too have noticed the polarisation that Dave mentions.

The young though have always been silly about speed and acceleration but at least they have the reaction times to offset some of that immaturity.

At what age do you come to the realisation that showing off in a car marks you out as a prat? 

Of course some people never achieve that (Clarkson for example). As these people cut across your front to kiss the apex of the exit lane do they think I bet everyone is impressed with my superior driving skill?


----------



## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Under-taking is also perfectly legal in South Africa providing you signal first. It quickly becomes an automatic action to check your mirror before pulling to the left.
It works well there and keeps traffic moving though I must admit that they have nowhere near the volume of traffic we have.


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I've seen Whistlinggypsy's lane 2 40mph supergran as well - she's still at it! Is it the same old dear who crawls along the M4 near Slough? 

My 2 current peeves are:

1. Women who text on their mobiles while driving - saw one this morning. How insane is that.

2. Drivers (male) who position themselves in lane 3 at traffic lights, then shoot across lanes 1 and 2 when the lights go green, to turn LEFT. BMW X5 or X3 drivers, typically. Because they don't want to join the queue to turn left. That is so risky it defies belief. 

Never any traffic cops around.

End of mini-rant.


SD


----------



## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

I have found since they have upgraded the A1 near to the 'Downtown' store, it has suddenly become a danger zone, especially at weekends as all the little old dears venture out to Downtown and go slower and slower and slower....as they try and work out the new slip road....

Be warned they don't brake or signal, just lift off the accelerator so you have no warning!!

I find Audi drivers are some of the rudest and impatient on the roads, and I think its due to them getting a false sense of security, I used to give way to them if they zoomed up behind me, but now I don't regardless of wether I am in the M/h , landi or Volvo....the speed limit is 70 and if they want to go faster then they can damn well wait until I've finished overtaking....

I think driving standards are appalling, I do a lot of miles each year and prefer my Landi with its huge bull bars and spot lights on front, for one reason only....people tend to give me a wide berth! Speaks volumes doesent it.. they don't think anything of intimidating a driver of a Fiesta but they keep away from me!!

There is no excuse for poor roadcraft, road rage and lack of skill, I think we should all pay more attention and slow down a little....after all I have a theory...we only have one life..I'd like a chance to live it!


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"prefer my Landi with its huge bull bars and spot lights on front, for one reason only....people tend to give me a wide berth! Speaks volumes doesent it.. they don't think anything of intimidating a driver of a Fiesta but they keep away from me!!"

A BMW 4.3-owning dear, gentle friend of mine baulked when I told him what I thought of BMW drivers. (Incidentally, I considered buying one once but didn't bother taking a road test as I didn't want to be classed as a plonker for the next 10 years). He refuted it absolutely. Absolutely, that was, until his car was in the garage for a week and he had to use his wife's small, Japanese car. He then apologised for arguing with me, for he never realised how irritating and intimidating BMW drivers were, tailgating him and flashing headlights.

Dave


----------



## PIEDODGER (Aug 22, 2008)

I know we are not all perfect but some of the things I hate Tailgaters, people throwing rubbish out of the window (especially when it hits your motor), females (and the odd male) putting on lippy at the lights, thick fog/heavy rain drivers with no lights/foggs on, people who talk with their hands, drivers who costantly look round at the passenger sitting in the back when they are talking to them (I actually know somebody who does this) thats my rant.


----------



## 101405 (Oct 15, 2006)

Wow .you people really are stressed. Why do you need to be driving like you do. take your time slow down, it will help your pocket !! sunday is always a bad day in the uk , why make a journey when you know traffic is heavy.
why do you need to overtake someone on the left on a busy motorway at speed. if you relaxed and waited you would be able pass a bit further on .
or is it a man thing, funny the english are rated the most aggressive bad drivers ,


----------



## dcmo (May 19, 2005)

I have a long commute along the M9 every day to work. I've seen most of the above examples of bad driving on a regular basis. 

The biggest fright I had was very recently. I was driving the MH and on the way home, I was heading at a reasonable pace up the single lane slip road to join the very busy Edinburgh bypass when out of nowhere a car appeared behind me and without warning decided to overtake so he could join the bypass ahead of me. This is a single lane and I was in the middle of it so matey had to go up the grass bank to get round me. The angle of the car meant the roof was very close to my window/mirror and as it all happened extremely fast I jumped out of my skin. The idiots in the car made it onto the bypass and could be seen pumping the air and cheering in triumph. 

Well, at least I discovered I actually know quite a few swear words 8O


----------



## devonidiot (Mar 10, 2006)

My motorway driving philosophy is quite simple.

I drive in the left hand lane and treat the middle lane as an over taking lane, very occasionally utilising the outside lane. The bad mannered people who seem to think that the inside lane is for slow traffic and the middle lane is for normal driving do irritate me.

However, is believing in keeping to the left, I've found this to be dangerous practice on the continent :lol:


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

I think it was said in jest, but.......its actually got merit.


The best way and the quickest, to improve driving standards, is to remove all mechanical or elelctrical aids from the vehicle and place a pointy spike in the centre of the steering wheel, and the passenger dash.


But, whilst we, as members stand on our pedestals, maybe the standards of driving could be improved throughout the country. 



( my halo is intact. I have been taught to drive by some of the best instructors in the world. ....... :wink: )


----------



## richardjames (Feb 1, 2006)

My main gripe is with drivers who take line as if tho turn right at a roundabout and then go straight on, pushing their way into the flow - this is the main reason that I have fitted Air Horns to my TOAD and Motorhome
Richard


----------



## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

Dave, what you wrote illastrated what I was trying to say totally, if they think they can intimidate you they will!!, 

I've even had men trying to cut me up when I've been driving my lorry (Renault Magnum 500), and for what?? well according to the chap I drive for he thinks its because I'm a woman and they are jelous as 'my toy is bigger than theirs' sort of thing...(so is my brain but lets not go that way..!)

I have noticed on occasions that I have driven girly friends 'little' cars that I get 'leaned on' by aggressive drivers, but it never happens when I am in my landi, apart from Audi drivers who obviously have the brake pedal and fear factor removed at birth (and there was me thinking that was a German thing!)....

I just wish people would slow down a bit, and think for the 8 cars they happen to be closest too, that way if we were all a bit more defensive in our driving some terrible accidents could be avoided.


----------



## Invicta (Feb 9, 2006)

The latest 'fad' (for want of a better word) I have seen with drivers is only using the right hand to steer the vehicle, the left is lying idly on their left thigh. I was taught to have two hands on the steering wheel at the 10am to 2pm position. I have recently undergone hand surgery on my right hand and for 6 weeks was not allowed to drive as I could only use my left hand to drive. I saw the surgeon yesterday who said now the splint is removed and I have more movement in my hand, I could drive again if I felt safe to do so. I drive an automatic and the only problem I can see is with releasing the hand brake that is on the right if it has been applied too tightly. Of course with an automatic I always leave it in 'park' and am therefore not so dependent on the handbrake.

The main cause of crashes IMO is driving too close together. I continually fix the vehicle in front on a marker at the side of the carriageway when I am driving then say to myself the ditty* "Only a fool breaks the two second rule"* before I reach it. Doing this gives me a safe distance between me and the vehicle in front if I need to stop quickly. As for those stupid drivers who hop into the space I have left, what can one say?!


----------



## frenchfancy (May 21, 2005)

Russell, Did we ever get any pics of the new "BUS"


----------



## 108872 (Dec 26, 2007)

*bad driving*

A good tip for tailgating is to turn your lights on and off very quick,they think your breaking and leave a gap.However dont do this if your easily intimidated because alot of them become very a
ngry.
Once youve got them angry,smile,they then become insane,very entertaining.
dave


----------



## Alfa_Scud (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: bad driving*



pricey007 said:


> A good tip for tailgating is to turn your lights on and off very quick,they think your breaking and leave a gap.However dont do this if your easily intimidated because alot of them become very a
> ngry.
> Once youve got them angry,smile,they then become insane,very entertaining.
> dave


A better tip is to actually dab the brakes - that really frightens 'em!!!

But as you say, then make sure you smile as they pull alongside giving you the V's  .

Not big or clever, but damned good fun!


----------



## 107558 (Oct 10, 2007)

I have noted that driving is becoming worse and that the idiots are also trying to get you to "rear-end" them for inflated insurance claims. So i've been thinking about fitting on of these:

>> CLICKY <<


----------



## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

I know its not recommended in the highway code but the highway code aint law. As far as I recall, undertaking is not actually in contravention of any road traffic rule or regulation. I did a few years as a plod but must admit I wasn't on traffic. Perhaps someone currently in the force can clarify.


----------



## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

I came to a decision a while ago that I will not, under any circumstances, get annoyed while driving. If someone tailgates me, I slow down and, if necessary, pull over and let them past.
If someone is driving like an idiot, I slow down and let them go ahead.
I pity them their poor shallow lives and wish them well.

When you get behind the wheel, be a bubble of coolness and calm in a hectic world.


----------



## phil4francoise (Jun 21, 2008)

As a grade 6 driving instructor and advanced driver i can assure you that to undertake on a multiple lane carriage way is both illegal and dangerous for obvious reasons but I do understand you frustration. my pet hate is directed at HVG drivers sorry guys but you get one in the left hand lane doing 59mph and one in the right hand ( overtaking lane ) doing 59.2 mph.this always happens to me when leaving dover on the A20.


----------



## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

Well said, AberdeenAngus 

Always preferable to let the idiot get in front of you. 

Fewer nasty surprises that way!


SD


----------



## chrisjrv (May 7, 2007)

Hi,
I was tailgated today coming out of Ipswich heading north, big white renault van.........with yellow stripes on side...........and a blue light on top...........and a sign saying "Ambulance"..... but as his lights and siren weren't on I take it he wasn't on an emergency call, and I was doing 70 :roll: Must've been teatime,
Chris V


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Russell
Just like a good single malt .

Therer are no bad ones, just better ones

Dave P


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

*silly to sterotype?*



DABurleigh said:


> A BMW 4.3-owning dear, gentle friend of mine baulked when I told him what I thought of BMW drivers. (Incidentally, I considered buying one once but didn't bother taking a road test as I didn't want to be classed as a plonker for the next 10 years). He refuted it absolutely. Absolutely, that was, until his car was in the garage for a week and he had to use his wife's small, Japanese car. He then apologised for arguing with me, for he never realised how irritating and intimidating BMW drivers were, tailgating him and flashing headlights.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave, isn't it a bit silly to strotype people by the type of car they drive?
Maybe and maybe not. 
Personally I have never suffered through BMW driver's aggression and arrogance (or Audi drivers either) but have constantly noticed how slowly, selfishly and lacking in awareness drivers of Nissan Micras are (I think most of them are very elderly?).

I have recently bought a new BMW but I do not drive it aggressively or arrogantly, I just enjoy it a lot.

It is a very nicely built, highly equipped, economical, smooth, powerful and quiet car. I was much more aggressive 5 or so years ago when I had an Alfa!
But I was younger then.

Vidura


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"Hi Dave, isn't it a bit silly to strotype people by the type of car they drive?"

Only as silly as constantly noticing how slowly, selfishly and lacking in awareness drivers of Nissan Micras are.

Perhaps self-awareness is not a strong BMW-owning attribute 

Dave


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> "Hi Dave, isn't it a bit silly to strotype people by the type of car they drive?"
> 
> Only as silly as constantly noticing how slowly, selfishly and lacking in awareness drivers of Nissan Micras are.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave, I don't think you quite "got" my post.
It hinges on "maybe, maybe not" and follows from there.
There was a little irony in there, at least intended to be apparent.

By the way I am very self-aware. 
I believe too much so in fact - to the extent that my natural flow is sometimes hindered.
My awareness has been cultivated my whole life whereas my ownership of a BMW is very recent.
Vidura


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

You offered it up; I smashed it. Teasing banter all the way


----------



## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: silly to sterotype?*



vidura said:


> DABurleigh said:
> 
> 
> > A BMW 4.3-owning dear, gentle friend of mine baulked when I told him what I thought of BMW drivers. (Incidentally, I considered buying one once but didn't bother taking a road test as I didn't want to be classed as a plonker for the next 10 years). He refuted it absolutely. Absolutely, that was, until his car was in the garage for a week and he had to use his wife's small, Japanese car. He then apologised for arguing with me, for he never realised how irritating and intimidating BMW drivers were, tailgating him and flashing headlights.
> ...


I think its tounge in cheek a lot of the time. I drive my bright orange Elise, never with the roof - and the names I get called. Poof, ******, Tosser, Hair Dresser, Small Cock....the list is endless.

When it happens, I normally smile and flip them the bird.

Going back to the stereotyping, the rule of thumb is, the more expensive, and / or the bigger the car, the more of a knob you will be perceived to be.

Its not envy as such, something much colder. I once went back to the car, which was parked with no roof. A tray of eggs had been smashed all over my dash and leather. I used it as an excuse for a valet, car was better than new. So I thank the fools who did it.

Gary.


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> "Hi Dave, isn't it a bit silly to strotype people by the type of car they drive?"
> 
> Only as silly as constantly noticing how slowly, selfishly and lacking in awareness drivers of Nissan Micras are.
> 
> Dave


It comes down to what we notice I guess, which stems from where we are ourselves at. I notice slow, hesitant, unaware driving but don't notice fast confident (or overconfident) drivers so much. So we project our own attention/focus onto others. And end up stereotyping. It is all pretty subjective.
And so therefore silly!

It is a pity you gave up the opportunity to consider neutrally a vehicle with a lot to offer simply as a vehicle because of some vague idea of how others might perceive you for owning it. And that paranoia is based on your own projection of your own subjectivity onto those others. Sort of like seeing a ghost in parallel mirrors - what is real, hard to know!


----------



## duxdeluxe (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: bad driving*



Alfa_Scud said:


> pricey007 said:
> 
> 
> > A good tip for tailgating is to turn your lights on and off very quick,they think your breaking and leave a gap.However dont do this if your easily intimidated because alot of them become very a
> ...


It's only damned good fun if you can be sure that you aren't going to get beaten up at the next junction. After being threatened in Tesco Thurrock for the sin of hooting at someone who carved me up nearly causing an accident (the police were simply not interested when I called them to complain - easier to set up a gatso, I suppose) I would never ever try one of these tricks, no matter how tempting. Oh, and never try it in the states - they have guns there and have been known to use them.............

I do a 70 mile each way commute when working in UK and oddly enough the best driving is usually at this time - I get in the office before all the main traffic on A12 and there are nearly all commuters, truckers and van drivers. get carved up a bit at times but usually anticipate it and flash to let them out plus get thanks in return. No chavs in old beemers, no lippie merchants, no old ladies or Mr Trilby Hatt either. Weekends? Totally different and a drive on the same road is really stressful as they all head to lakeside in hubbies BMW X5 with their blonde mates, go to see their chavvy mates and check out the sound system, or head off to see Doris in Dorset at 50 mph in the middle lane.

getting grumpy in my old age - it's 5am here and I'm jetlagged


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

i am probably called a slow coach in motorhome
smug ba----d in my slk
f=====g idiot on suzuki
road hog in silver van
old f==t in wifes clio.

everyone has an opinion. right or wrong who is to say

Dave p


----------



## Zozzer (Aug 13, 2006)

YES, the standards of driving in the UK has become obmissmal. And I think the police are not tough enough on gross stupidity. They merely wait for an accident to happen before proscuting a driver. It's almost as it's ok to break the law providing you dont cause an accident to happen.

I'd like to see more prosecutions for bad driving such as aggressive tailgating, staying in outside lane mile after mile with no-one in the inside lanes. I would also like to see TACHOGRAPHS fitted to every vehicle used in conjunction with a business, White Van man, Company Reps etc etc. Currently there are no checks on the number of hours these people are working.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi zozzer
i work aprox 12 hours per day but not all are at the wheel of silver van.
paperwork has to be done so that i can work with motorway morons, micra slowies 4X4 school runners etc.
At the mo i am doing vat returns to send in more cash to our government so that a few who do not want to work are paid their benefit.

Awfull word is `benefit`. It means tax to others.
DP


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

DTPCHEMICALS said:


> Hi zozzer
> 
> At the mo i am doing vat returns
> 
> DP


Oi, no swearing on the forum.

only cos I got mine to do this weekend.


----------



## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

Bah, get accountants and bookkeepers guys - the lack if stress will be well worth it.

Gary.


----------



## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

I'll tell you what I don't get - side lights! I mean what are the point of side lights? 
If its going dark put the headlights on. If it's getting light again, switch 'em off. When I see people with just side lights on I wonder do they really think it makes them any more visible than if they were off?


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

bandaid said:


> DTPCHEMICALS said:
> 
> 
> > Hi zozzer
> ...


Don't you have accounting software guys?
I just enter my purchase and sales invoices in over the quarter, when it is time for the dreaded VAT return I just press the button"do VAT return" and it is done, printed out on a nice sheet for me to copy into the return which I now do online.

No stress involved!
Gosh I would hate to have to add it all up twice manually and subtract one from the other. I'd never get the same result twice!
Vidura


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> You offered it up; I smashed it. Teasing banter all the way


Hi Dave, being a bit slow sometimes I came up with this repost today -
all teasing banter mind!

I offered it up, you smashed it but missed and got your thumb instead, OW!

:wink:


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

I am taking more care on the roads as I get older but I think I am a worse driver than when I was young. My concentration and reactions were much faster than they are now. I did speed a lot but even so had some instinct when it could be done and not done. Nowadays I think those that speed are speeding on roads far more dangerous than they were in my younger days and at inappropriate times. 

Of course I know that no one should speed but I deal in reality and people do including me sometimes particularly on a motorway where the speed tends to creep up on you. But when I have the satnav on I have it set to make a siren sound which warns me when I am pushing my luck.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"got your thumb instead"

No, I definitely struck a nerve, and it wasn't mine.

Dave


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

DABurleigh said:


> "got your thumb instead"
> 
> No, I definitely struck a nerve, and it wasn't mine.
> 
> Dave


Ha Ha, nice one Dave! :lol:

wasn't mine either!

It's just that the original point of my post was that we are all silly when we stereotype, me with Nissan Micra drivers, you with BMW etc etc -
there may be something in it a lot of the time but not all the time.

Me - I just bought the BMW 'cos it is a great car which suits my needs, I didn't think too long or too seriously about what people may think of me for having one, to be honest I did think a bit about that but quickly realised it was nonsense - just other people's perceptions and we have no control over that, it bears no relation to what our actual intent is!

It is always a little offensive to be stereotyped - 
who wants to be put in a box!

Not you and not me.


----------



## 89017 (May 11, 2005)

Over the years I have driven HGV's and been a sales rep pounding the roads over many many thousands of miles and IMHO the standard of driving has declined dramatically, especially over the past 10 years or so.
I think a lot of it has to do with the pressures we're put under, targets to meet, mortgage to pay etc.
With regard to undertaking, it is illegal and extremely dangerous. For those that know the A34 from the M4 to the M40 you will be aware what an accident black spot this road is and I spent many an hour trundling up and down it. 
One day I watched a car who had come off the M4 and wanted to continue his high speed jaunt to work, undertake an artic. The artic driver didn't see the car, pulled into the nearside lane and pushed it off the road. the driver was killed. That's how dangerous undertaking is!!! I witnessed the same sort of manoeuvre a couple of years later involving two cars but fortunately no serious injuries, they were lucky.
In this day and age and congestion as it is, pulling smart stunts, cutting people up just to gain an extra car length is pathetic and puts other lives at risk.
I just let them get on with it and normally arrive at the next traffic jam just behind them.
It annoys me when people say, " if I see everybody else doing it, then I might as well do it myself". 
If we all applied that rule it'll be anarchy and similar to driving in Iran, where anything goes (except driving the wrong way round a roundabout, that's just a bit too confusing!)
Courtesy and respect for others on our roads still has a place. Let's keep it that way.
By the way, not all BMW drivers are aggressive lunatics - As you've probably 
gathered, I own one of these fine cars. They are refined, well engineered, handle extremely well and very quick (in the appropriate places).
I would also like to add that I took my motorcycle test the other month (after failing it 37 years previously) and the training gives you a whole new view on motoring and motorists. It's a pity it's not been made compulsory for all road users!!!


----------



## 106916 (Sep 8, 2007)

biggermac said:


> By the way, not all BMW drivers are aggressive lunatics - As you've probably
> gathered, I own one of these fine cars. They are refined, well engineered, handle extremely well and very quick (in the appropriate places).


Exactly, can't we just be free to choose a car because of the vehicle it is - which in the case of the BMW and other fine cars are generally superb - without being tarred with some insane generalisation about the sort of people we must be to buy one - based on a totally extraneous judgement.

Vidura


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Good point about the m/cycle test, and Pusser, I knew somewhere there was a member with the personal integrity to admit to a lower, note lower, standard of driving than maybe previously.

oh, and undertaking per see isnt any more dangerous than any other overtaking manouver. What makes it more hazardous in the UK and Europe, ( I think) is that n other driver actually anticipate it. When I drive in the US, I fairly quickley get used to the :


You can go right against the red light if theres nothing coming your way
and
please move over a lane if you see an emergency service vehicle stationary in the gutter.


Never get used to the undertaking. This, I beliee is because it is drummed into the Britih Psyche from day 1 of learning to pass the test, ( sorry learning to drive). I also think this may be the reason it will never be legalised over here. Too ingrained.


----------



## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

The reason that I don't undertake is that a middle lane hogger is obviously so insensitive to the whereabouts of other road users that he/she might dive into the inside lane at any point.


----------



## andyman (Aug 31, 2006)

I followed a M/H with a toad along the A46 yesterday morning. And despite the rush hour traffic, the oblivious driver managed to use all three lanes as he went round the roundabout. I find it hard to believe that someone can drive in that manor and be unaware. I have to wonder if it is just bloody minded or are they completly gaga.

Andy


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

Ok lets put tachos in white vans but does that mean pvc s - coachbuilts and A class m/h`s.

Adrian 
vat at the weeken! I`ll think about you when i am at silverstone on Saturday watching BSB qualifying, and Des nations motocross at Donnington on Sunday
vidura
accounting software i use but to work out vat i would have to enter all purchases and that would take longer than "manual".
Apart from that i may pay too much.
Gary Accountants and bookkeeper are words that i despise just as much as the word" benefit"
So lets all keep moaning about the road hogs and morons because we are all perfect are`nt we.

Have a nice weekend
Dave P


----------



## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*undertaking*

just my two-peneth.......had to undertake a silver vw estate yesterday in my truck, this pillock was sat in the outside lane (car had baby on board sticker in rear window) also wife alongside driver, this seemed to irritate the driver that I had the front to invade his personal highway so he then put his foot down overtook and swerved in front of me and proceeded to brake-test me for the next two miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a prat ! If only he knew the mess that 26tons of truck can make rolling over him and his family.......doesnt bear thinking about 8O


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

I use the A1 M62 M18 M1 around south yorkshire notts derbyshire and south yorkshire area on a daily basis. I can`t think of the last time i saw a police car patroling this area. Probably this is the reason driving standards are not good.

DP

Keep death off the road. Drive on the pavement.


----------



## homenaway (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi,
when does undertaking become ok?
we drove eastbound along the A14 last week and before the M11/Cambridge split there was a newish white hire van doing 45/50 in the middle lane well before the more solid white line starts. As there wasn't much traffic behind us (for once :lol: ) I thought about undertaking him but decided not too so overtook him moving from the inside lane out to the third lane then immediately back to the inside lane when I had passed him. He just chugged along in his own world eventually with a queue of lorries behind him. Ok he may have been unfamiliar with that junction - we have only driven along there once before.

On the other hand coming up the M1 on Monday morning from the M69 to the Chesterfield J29 turn, everyone seemed to be driving sensibly for once (apart from one foreign registered artic in a hurry) even through the 50MPH roadworks. I think those average speed cameras (are they really operating?) seemed to work well. 

Perhaps Mondays are better than Fridays for that (or any) journey  

Steve


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

Handsard, Feb 2004.

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the actual manoeuvre of one vehicle going past another in the inside lane because there might be a slow-down in the outside lane, and the inside lane is continuing to move, is not illegal. Deliberately setting out to pass a vehicle by moving from one lane to another to go inside it and to go past leaves open the possibility that such a manoeuvre appears to be careless driving, and it could be subject to such a charge.

If the inside lane is clear and lane 2 traffic is moving at less than the speed limit then is this not a case for the Noble Lords first paragraph advice to be taken?


----------



## EdinburghCamper (Sep 13, 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7636577.stm

Not just the drivers you need to watch, WOW! And those girls are, erm, STRONG.

Gary.


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

what on earth was wrong with them!


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

They must have been high on something fairly potent.

Can't imagine anyone with a grain of sense behaving like that if they were in possession of their senses.

Must have been a bit scary for those who had to deal with it, especially the poor lorry driver who thought he had killed the one he hit! 8O 8O


----------



## 101776 (Nov 13, 2006)

' crack' does that to people, makes them feel incredibly strong and invincable......don't think it says anything in the instructions about fighting 40T lorries though!


----------



## webfoot (Jun 9, 2008)

Yes our roads are becoming totally clogged with traffic, and our little island will soon be one massive traffic jam. But what about roundabout proceedure. The rules state that you must give way to traffic on the right. Unfortunately if you were to obey these rules, you would never move. It's a case of "if you can beat the right hand driver - go for it", often a tad more difficult in a MH than an XR3


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Mashed swede is very popular 8) especially among vegetarians.


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Pusser said:


> Mashed swede is very popular 8) especially among vegetarians.


 8O 8O :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

phil4francoise said:


> As a grade 6 driving instructor and advanced driver i can assure you that to undertake on a multiple lane carriage way is both illegal and dangerous for obvious reasons but I do understand you frustration. my pet hate is directed at HVG drivers sorry guys but you get one in the left hand lane doing 59mph and one in the right hand ( overtaking lane ) doing 59.2 mph.this always happens to me when leaving dover on the A20.


I believe you, and that was always my understanding but for clarity can you tell me which law is being broken ?
The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (link below) has no specific offence of passing on the left. When people are proscecuted for undertaking it is usually for "Due care & attention". Undertaking is dodgy but its not in itself illegal.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/ukpga_19880053_en_1


----------



## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

The most scary move I see from time to time is this one.

A driver is crossing a duel carriageway and is positioned in the central area waiting for a break in traffic. Unfotunately the driver decides not to wait and pulls out into the overtaking lane forcing fast oncoming traffic to undertake or plough into this idiot.

This move seems to be getting more and more common.


Bob


----------

