# Reverse polarity?



## Perseus (Apr 10, 2009)

We shall shortly be going ovet to France and Spain in the mc and wondered whether anyone who does the trip regularly has had problems with reverse polarity on camp sites.....or do we just carry on regardless?

An electrician has told me that it's a waste of time making up a reverse polarity lead. Just plug in and don't worry if it reversed or not.

Any comments, please?

John


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

Your electrician should be shot. (maybe not as he may know your motorhome)

Basically the reason France and Spain 'don't care' about polarity is all their switches switch off both live and neutral. Traditionally UK switches only switch off Live. 

Bottom line is that if you have dual pole switches you are OK if not you should check and correct polarity. As in the event of a fault you could still have live electricity even though your trips may have trips!

Hope that helps?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Totally agree, reverse polarity does exist and a correction lead is easy to make up using a short length of the correct cable and a male and a female end. We plug ours in at the van end and then plug the EHU lead into that - so it is not dangling around the EHU point.

Our socket in our open barn needs such a lead - yet others do not - the whole system is safe (and brand new) but it happens because of the higher protection the French wiring regulations require.

Without it you MAY find some equipment shows a fault - our mains input/electric control box + charger has a light on it to show if the polarity is incorrect.

BUT it is worth taking a plug in tester (cheap and readily available) too so that faults in earth connections can also be detected.

Using them is not a hassle - but it is safer than not,

Dave


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## PILOTEFAN (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi

Definately get one. We have come across this a few times on our travels so it does exist.

I alway use the test plug first to make sure then you just use another adapter. Its very easy

I got a kit with everything included from Ebay it wasnt a great deal of money and it give us piece of mind


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## Scattycat (Mar 29, 2011)

I must admit an English friend of mine got me panicking about reverse polarity but after a bit of research I've come to the conclusion that to be honest most of the time, in my view, it's not a problem. 

My friends comment was that it could fry certain bits of equipment, but as far as I am aware it doesn't matter which way around your domestic electrical equipment is wired, the real problems are with older vans/ houses that don't have an RDC. 

Basically as long as you turn the power off at the mains before you start to fiddle with any equipment then no problem, try and change a 240v light-bulb by just turning off at the switch and it could hurt a bit because if the polarity is reversed the socket will still be live.

But no doubt someone will tell me I'm wrong, they usually do 

:lol: :roll:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

If it ain't gassing it's reversed polarity - which is a good trick if you can do it with alternating current! :roll: 

I'm not getting into the argument, but I'm not going to tell Scattycat he's wrong either!  

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Perseus said:


> We shall shortly be going ovet to France and Spain in the mc and wondered whether anyone who does the trip regularly has had problems with reverse polarity on camp sites.....or do we just carry on regardless?
> 
> An electrician has told me that it's a waste of time making up a reverse polarity lead. Just plug in and don't worry if it reversed or not.
> 
> ...


Yes. Just carry on regardless. The purists will have you scared out of your skin. 
Unless you find that 1000 to 1 chance and stick your finger where is shouldn't go anyway, you won't notice a thing.

Trust me i'm an Electrician.

Ray.


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Reverse Polarity*

If you have one of these ..RDC.. you will be OK no need for all those reverse polarity leads.

The RDC is one on the left with the test button just in case you are not familiar with them

Brian


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

While most electrical equipment wont care about reverse polarity it's a safety issue not a functional issue.

Quote ScattyCat: "try and change a 240v light-bulb by just turning off at the switch and it could hurt a bit because if the polarity is reversed the socket will still be live"

Getting a 220/240vac shock can KILL not just hurt.

The whole issue with 'turning it off' and reverse polarity is that without dual pole switch you might only be switching off the negative cable!!!!!

Please do get a polarity tester and a reverser.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Most Continental MH's have a combined RCD / MCB called an RCCBO. A residual current circuit breaker (RCCB) or RCCBO combines the functions of overcurrent protection and leakage detection.

When it is switched off or operates in a leakage situation it disconnects both the Live and Neutral supply. Together with the fact that the mains sockets are not switched means that even if the mains is reversed there should not be the perceived UK problem of a RCD or MCB operating and Live supply stilll being fed to sockets.

When I worked in Saudi Arabia polarity was very hit or miss and in many cases was 110v - 110v connected to produce 220v. This strictly speaking was not Live and Neutral as we know it. We never had any problem with equipment malfunctioning, things seem to work as long as there was 220v between the two terminals.


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Reverse Polarity*

Not seen them dropping like flies down here its not a big issue just a good thread to chew over.

Never heard of anybody on these forums being electricuted via reverse polarity.

Brian


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Reverse Polarity*



bktayken said:


> If you have one of these ..RDC.. you will be OK no need for all those reverse polarity leads.
> 
> The RDC is one on the left with the test button just in case you are not familiar with them
> 
> Brian


Brian,
I believe it is not an RCD but a RCBO.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USED-MOEL...CFK6-25-2-003-6000-RCBO-MCB-RCD-/270754129056

Ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

ched999uk said:


> The whole issue with 'turning it off' and reverse polarity is that without dual pole switch you might only be switching off the negative cable!!!!


But who in his right mind pulls apart an appliance and firtles about inside it with the mains plug still in the socket, *and *switched on at the socket too!!! :roll:

And what is a negative cable in an alternating current circuit? :roll:

There is so much mis- and dis-information surrounding this topic I really feel sorry for anyone who reads these threads.

Take the trouble to understand fully the electro-mechanical detail - and there is no problem. Knowledge and understanding = safety!

Sorry - said I wasn't going to get involved. :roll: :roll:

Dave


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Reverse Polarity*

You are right Ray ... over here they seem to come under the general heading of RCDs

Brian


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## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

Zebedee said:


> ched999uk said:
> 
> 
> > The whole issue with 'turning it off' and reverse polarity is that without dual pole switch you might only be switching off the negative cable!!!!
> ...


Sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant was that if you switch off the trip and have the wrong polarity you could still have live at any electrical sockets. I meant if people had a problem with the mh 220vac electrics.

As you say no negative. I meant neutral.

As you say safety first. 
Thanks Dave.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: Reverse Polarity*



bktayken said:


> You are right Ray ... over here they seem to come under the general heading of RCDs
> 
> Brian


Brian, I would guess that is because on the Continent they do not supply RCD's as per the UK where only one leg, the Live, of the supply is isolated. 
If UK manufactures did the same you could ignore all this reversed polarity malarky.

It is strange to me that the NCC who set the standards for UK motorhomes, including electrical installations, always try to imply that Continental MH's are somehow inferior to UK ones as they are not built to the same high standards.


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## Helgamobil (Jul 18, 2010)

We always take a tester with us, it takes seconds to plug into the supply and have peace of mind. The two most common problems are reverse polarity and no earth. The tester is a simple and cheap bit of kit, and you can make up your own "polarity reverser" with some cable and male/female connectors "reverse wired" to correct the reverse polarity problem.


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## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

I've just bought an adapter 3pin (uk) 16amp to 2pin 'continental' fitting to use in Europe. If I use a socket tester and find the polarity reversed when abroad, why can't I just put the 2pin plug in the other way up?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Probably Bill cos the projecting earth pin of the outlet won't let you.

The French and Spanish outlets have the earth pin projecting but the German ones don't and could easily be reversed as I see it.

Ray.


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## Scattycat (Mar 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Polarity*



rayc said:


> bktayken said:
> 
> 
> > You are right Ray ... over here they seem to come under the general heading of RCDs
> ...


It's the same in many areas. Talk to many of the new ex-pats over here and according to them everything the French do is inferior or wrong compared to the UK. It's not until they have been here a while that the enlightened ones realise that it's not wrong or inferior, just different and believe it or not sometimes those "johnnie foreigners" do things a little better than in the UK :lol:


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## Helgamobil (Jul 18, 2010)

Even the German ones might only have the "earth" metal strip on one side of the socket, so cannot be "reversed".


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Not mine............................... Ray.


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## Perseus (Apr 10, 2009)

Well, I'm the guy who posed the original question and I have to say that now 20-odd replies later I am more confused and perplexed than I was before I asked the question.

Half the replies say, Yes you definitely need a reverse polarity cable and the other half say No, you don't it's all an old wives tales.

So what do I do??

I think the safest course is to make up a short reverse polarity cable and use it. If it turns out to be unneccesary then so what....at least I am covered.

But I want to sincerely thank all the people who took the trouble to reply. Much appreciated.

Perseus (John)


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## bktayken (Oct 11, 2008)

*Reverse polarity*



raynipper said:


> Probably Bill cos the projecting earth pin of the outlet won't let you.
> 
> The French and Spanish outlets have the earth pin projecting but the German ones don't and could easily be reversed as I see it.
> 
> Ray.


The Spanish ones dont either Ray only the French have the projecting earth pin.

As usual John there is rarely a definative answer to most queries.But at least you have a better handle on the situation and can now decide how to cover yourself.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Not mine............................... Ray.


Ray, your socket is a Shuko CEE 7/4.

The type with the pin are Shuko CEE 7/5

There is a hybrid type of plug the Shuko CEE 7/7, which will mate with both of the above and connect to the safety earth.

This explains it better than I can:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko

Ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: Reverse polarity*



bktayken said:


> As usual John there is rarely a definative answer to most queries.


Hi Ken

There is a definitive answer but opinions often outweigh the facts on a forum! :roll:

John has arrived at the most sensible conclusion he could possibly have chosen.

If in doubt, get a tester and a reversing cable _(which together will give him change from 20 quid)_ then at least his mind is at rest. Whether it's strictly necessary or not really doesn't matter a damn if he feels secure and relaxed by using it.

I would strongly advise him to use his tester to check for a good Earth connection though. Nobody seems at all concerned about that, but it's potentially far more dangerous than so called "_reversed polarity_" - and we have come across two French hook-ups in the past two years with no Earth connection. 8O 8O

Dave


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Reverse polarity*



Zebedee said:


> There is a definitive answer but opinions often outweigh the facts on a forum! :roll:


The nail, as they say, has been struck firmly on the head!

Unless those who advocate the use of such crossover leads explain WHY it is necessary, they are merely expressing their own preference for these (superfluous) devices.


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## robrace (Jun 30, 2005)

*scaremongering*

Been going to France for years!Never bothered about reverse polarity.never known anybody killed,maimed or had shocks due to reverse polarity.Never known anyone who has ever had the van go up in smoke.Have a good holiday.Don't have a shock!don't be gassed!If you do let us all know!


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