# Engine battery...charging..understanding of?



## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi,
Im trying to work out the charging system on my Hymer A class.

I have two solar panels on the roof and 3 leisure batteries in the vehicle. Naturally in addition there is the engine battery.

When i check the battery charge using the Hymer panel the leisure batteries always show full or near full..so the solar panels do a very good job.

When I check the engine battery (without running up the engine or hooking up) it slowly flattens.

Is there a way of charging the engine battery at the same time.?

Any help or advice would be welcomed

Cheers,
Clemmo


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

I my view.... the solar panels should go directly to its own control unit and there are dual control units to enable you to independently charge your leisure batteries and the main battery, as I have done, the output of the solar regulator is directly connected to the leisure battery and to the main battery... did not bother with the hymer fuse unit as the solar control unit has its own display showing all the info you might need.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Clemmo, A Battery Master [obtainable from Outdoor bits] will enable the solar panel to charge both the habitation and vehicle battery. Ray

http://www.outdoorbits.com/battery-master-p-32.html


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Assuming your Hymer is a relatively recent one (late 90's onwards) with a Schaudt Elektroblock charger / control system, then when it is on mains hook-up, the vehicle battery will be trickle charged and the leisure batteries will be charged using a three-stage process.
If you want the solar panels to charge the vehicle battery as well as the leisure batteries, the panels should be connected via a Schaudt Solar Regulator that plugs into the Elektroblock (EBL). I think the current version of the regulator has the model number LRS 1218. On an EBL 99 or 100 model the regulator plugs into connector block 6 on the front panel.

Philip


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## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies..much appreciated.

Im afraid I have very little understanding here but this has helped.
I would love to adapt the system to charge the engine battery from solar but feel it is above me.

I wasnt sure if EHU charged the engine battery..now I know!

This battery has gone flat over the last few days and although on EHU overnight the Hymer panel still indicates it is very low.....
So im goiing to get a new battery today and see how we go.

Maybe change the sytem later if I can get enough info and confidence.

Thanks
Clemmo


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi Clemmo..... my view is that the mains hook up dose not charge the main battery only the leisure one, only when the engine is running dose the main battery charge and then also the leisure battery... I hope that helps you.... please feel free to contact me if you require any more information..


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## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh boy!...now Im confused!!

New battery will arrive this afternoon. Hopefully I can fit this and forget...Maybe I dont need to know what charges what!?

As long as when I tuen the key it starts Ill be happy in my ignorance!

Clemmo


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

yes that will be fine..... just keep an eye on the main battery, just treat it in the same way as in your car.....if left for long periods it would be an idea to float charge the battery from time to time... enjoy your camper


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## Jodi1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Our charger allows us to either charge the leisure battery( which it defaults to when switched on) on the vehicle battery when selected. When we tried it out , the vehicle battery was charged up I believe we have a similar charger unit as in JeanLuc's post


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## Jennifer (Mar 24, 2009)

I keep my vehicle on EHU all the time, as, as advised on previous threads on this site, both mains and leisure batteries are fully charged, and I have to say that this is correct in my situation. My batteries are always fully charged whilst on EHU.

I am grateful for the information re the battery master, as I could utilise my solar panel more. Where would this battery master be situated in my M/H so that I can ascertain if I actually already have one!!!! Was told no, when I enquired when I purchased if the solar panel charged my mains battery, but am not now sure, as the previous owner seemed to be quite "up to speed" with gadgets and things.

Jenny


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Clemmo,

We had the same problem, ie, the 3 x leisures charge from the solar panel, but the starter battery wouldn't. 
As well as the Battery Master mentioned above, there is Battery Charge Manager from CAK Tanks, (about £35), which through a simple connection, transfers any excess charge from the leisures into the starter battery, at a rate of up to 4 amps, either from solar chrging, or mains charging. 
This is great when the vehicle is in storage for any length of time, with the alarm system active.

JeanLuc is correct when referring to the Schaudt Elektroblok, ie, a trickle charge is given to the starter battery when on hook up.

Ours is a 99 model with an EBL 4-105 charging unit.

CAK's Electrical PDF BCM 12 on page 81.

HTH,

Jock.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Jennifer said:


> I keep my vehicle on EHU all the time, as, as advised on previous threads on this site, both mains and leisure batteries are fully charged, and I have to say that this is correct in my situation. My batteries are always fully charged whilst on EHU.
> 
> I am grateful for the information re the battery master, as I could utilise my solar panel more. Where would this battery master be situated in my M/H so that I can ascertain if I actually already have one!!!! Was told no, when I enquired when I purchased if the solar panel charged my mains battery, but am not now sure, as the previous owner seemed to be quite "up to speed" with gadgets and things.
> 
> Jenny


Jenny, It would possibly be near the habitation battery but electrically it could be anywhere ,as it does not matter how near or far it is from either battery. The first step is to look at the battery positive terminals and see if there are 'extra' wires connected to them. The easiest way though is to measure the voltage at the vehicle battery and dtermine whether it is charging when the solar panel is providing power. Measure the voltage when it is dark and measure it again when sun has been on the solar panel for a couple of hours. If the voltage has risen by a volt or so then it has been topped up.

I live in Corfe Mullen and would be happy to check it for you.
Ray


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi Clemmo... Sorry I have miss lead you some what, my mistake.... if you have the ELB 99 etc from hymer you do indeed have a float charge coming from the mains charger so all should be well... just did not read the circuit diagram correctly LOL its a very low current charge but will be fine....I dont have the mains hook up on much as the solar panels do all the work... enjoy


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## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies...my understanding is improving!!
Feel I really should use the "wasted" solar power in the future.

Wonder if you can shed light on this one..and if its connected?

I managed to get the engine started today...just...and will fit the new battery later.

I also noticed that (with the engine running) the 12V fridge light didnt come on..Now I do know that only works with the engine running.
I switched off....plugged in EHU and the fridge mains light came on ok.
Is it possible that because my engine battery is so low it wont allow the fridge to run on 12V?

Cheers again,

Clemmo


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## clemmo (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies...my understanding is improving!!
Feel I really should use the "wasted" solar power in the future.

Wonder if you can shed light on this one..and if its connected?

I managed to get the engine started today...just...and will fit the new battery later.

I also noticed that (with the engine running) the 12V fridge light didnt come on..Now I do know that only works with the engine running.
I switched off....plugged in EHU and the fridge mains light came on ok.
Is it possible that because my engine battery is so low it wont allow the fridge to run on 12V?

Cheers again,

Clemmo


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

This is quite a timely thread for me - I was about to start one on the same subject today! My apologies to the OP - I do NOT wish to hijack your thread!!

On the RV (which was factory-built in the US to full UK spec, unusually), my understanding is that my solar panel charges the leisure batteries until fully charged. Then, a relay kicks in (I can hear it), and the charging is directed at the engine battery. My understanding however, may be wrong.

However, over the past 3 months, the engine battery dies within 24 hours, and the relay is hardly ever heard. I have assumed - rightly or wrongly - that the engine battery is dud, and have got a new one (yet to be fitted).

HOWEVER - can someone please explain to me what I should be doing with the two isolation switches on the Intellitec BD2 unit which is installed (see the link)?

When I'm on EHU, I can have mains either with or without the charger (a switch on the fusebox). The charger is noisy, so I generally turn it off during the night. I've been told to always leave the Coach switch on (in the pic) when on charge.

I guess my basic question is - does the position of the *Chassis* switch on the Intellitec unit matter? If it's off, it will presumably preserve that battery more, but will that stop it charging, either from the solar panel or the EHU charger?

Thanks,

Dougie.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

clemmo said:


> I also noticed that (with the engine running) the 12V fridge light didnt come on..Now I do know that only works with the engine running.
> Is it possible that because my engine battery is so low it wont allow the fridge to run on 12V?
> 
> Cheers again,
> ...


Yes it is possible if the battery is pulling down the alternator voltage. If that is the case the voltage may be below the operating voltage of the fridge relay. It is also possible that the relay actually operates but as soon as the fridge element starts to draw current that the voltage drops causing the relay to release - and the cycle starts again. Can you measure the engine battery voltage whilst the engine is running with the fridge switched OFF and then with the fridge switched ON? Does the Fridge 12v lamp flash as the relay makes and then releases?


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

asprn said:


> This is quite a timely thread for me - I was about to start one on the same subject today! My apologies to the OP - I do NOT wish to hijack your thread!!
> 
> On the RV (which was factory-built in the US to full UK spec, unusually), my understanding is that my solar panel charges the leisure batteries until fully charged. Then, a relay kicks in (I can hear it), and the charging is directed at the engine battery. My understanding however, may be wrong.
> 
> ...


Dougie, The manual says "Battery Disconnect provides a simple and safe means of remotely disconnecting batteries of an RV or boat. With a touch of a remote switch, the batteries will be completely disconnected, preventing unwanted drain when the RV or boat are put into storage".

As I read it the remote panel provides the function to isolate each battery seperately. When in the STORE position the battery/ies is/are completely isolated { STORE mean STORAGE}.
When in the STORE postion the battery will not receive chareg from either EHU or Solar panel. Ray


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

rayc said:


> As I read it the remote panel provides the function to isolate each battery seperately. When in the STORE position the battery/ies is/are completely isolated { STORE mean STORAGE}.
> When in the STORE postion the battery will not receive chareg from either EHU or Solar panel


Hi Ray,

Does that mean that no charging can be done on either battery, from either power source, when set to Store?

Dougie.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

asprn said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> > As I read it the remote panel provides the function to isolate each battery seperately. When in the STORE position the battery/ies is/are completely isolated { STORE mean STORAGE}.
> ...


Dougie, Yes the battery is completely isolated [disconnected] from it's circuits. Ray


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

clive1821 said:


> Hi Clemmo..... my view is that the mains hook up dose not charge the main battery only the leisure one, only when the engine is running dose the main battery charge and then also the leisure battery... I hope that helps you.... please feel free to contact me if you require any more information..


Sorry Clive, but I have to disagree. Here is a direct quote from the instruction manual for an Elektroblock EBL99. I believe the various EBL models fitted in Hymers behave in the same way.

"Mains charging of starter battery
This feature provides an automatic float charge for the starter battery at up to 2 A when the 230 V mains is connected to the Electrobloc."

If the EBL is not charging the starter battery on EHU (or when solar panels are connected via the LRS 1214 / 1218 regulator) then there is probably a blown fuse in the charging circuit.

The symptoms described earlier suggest a starter battery that has reached the end of life. I have just had to replace mine as it failed the evening we were setting off for Scotland. Left it on charge (via EHU) overnight and in the morning, the voltage looked fine but it could not turn the engine. My new starter battery is rated at 750 "cold cranking amps" but the old one could only deliver less than 250 according to the RAC man. When they go, it happens quite quickly.

Philip


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi Philip,


yes you are correct about the elb99 as i did say in an early post, just after I posted the quote you are refering to as i did not read the circuit corectley.... not using the mains to charger the batteries I have never noticed it... the charge current goes via a diode and a themostor to the main battery... hope your leave in scotland is ok.. enjoy


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

clive1821 said:


> Hi Philip,
> 
> yes you are correct about the elb99 as i did say in an early post, just after I posted the quote you are refering to as i did not read the circuit corectley.... not using the mains to charger the batteries I have never noticed it... the charge current goes via a diode and a themostor to the main battery... hope your leave in scotland is ok.. enjoy


Sorry Clive, I was replying direct from an e-mail alert to thanks from my earlier post. I did not read through the subsequent threads as I should have done, so missed your correction.

Regarding holiday, we went to Mull (once the starter battery had been replaced) and the weather was wonderful, although the wind was "fresh". Good walking weather!
Been home ten days now and looking forward to the next trip in a few weeks to Bavaria via Alsace.

Philip


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## clive1821 (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi Philip... no probs.... we have come back from weekends awaygoing to hamble this weekend.. then next friday we are off to dover for the 21:30 ferry to calais and aim to Italy and the lakes... but may not even get there depending what we come accross on the way.... so thats us... just going that way lol...


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