# Wild camping for those of you that use Moggs Eye etc Lincs



## Briarose

For any of you that have visited the Lincolnshire coast, and enjoyed days out to the carparks by the beaches between Chapel St Leonards and Sutton on Sea. 

Our wonderful council (NOT) Have installed height barriers at Six Marshes. Moggs Eye etc and are now working their way up towards the 'Terrace' which I know some of you use and I suspect will be next. 

So if you visit Skeggy and have only your motorhome for transport, these places unfortunately are a no no. 

What I don't understand is if they don't want over night camping......why cant they be unlocked in the daytime to allow folk to enjoy the use of their motorhomes whilst using the beach for days out.


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## teemyob

*car parks*

Just the Mentality of the UK councils, sadly.

Same for Blackpool who deserve to have a failing tourist footfall

Why we try to get to the continent so often.

TM


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## 747

We were overnighting at Moggs Eye when the workmen turned up to start the job. We might have the distinction of being the last to ever wild there.

I spoke to the man in charge and he was not against m/homes staying overnight. This policy comes from higher up and comes about by the efforts of one or two locals. One of them is of uncertain mental stability (the witch) but the damage is done.

I am surprised about 6 Marshes as we pulled in there first on our way back North and it looked like the new work was complete without height barriers. We did not stay there but moved to the next one up and spent a couple of nights with the regulars there.

There is a very disturbing link to Lincolnshire and Northumberland. M/homes are being excluded there too and the common thread is that the area is of Special Scientific Interest and any new works are specifically affecting motorhomes.

It is getting to the point where I am looking at changing my van for something more suitable for spending months in (in Europe) or getting shot of it altogether.


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## Briarose

Hmmn thats interesting 747. A few weeks ago there was a letter in the Skegness Standard, it was from a local man complaining about overnight caravans. He did refer to caravans specifically although I havent ever seen caravans in these places. I have been looking but can't find the letter on the Skegness Standard website.

What annoys me (wild camping aside) is we pay road tax etc and now cannot go there with our Grandchildren with the motorhome to spend a few hours at the beach, which is certainly more pleasant experience than taking the car. Being able to make drinks etc etc.

Even a workman with a van now cannot go and sit up there for a lunch break. We all have to abide by discrimination laws in this country and yet we are all being discriminated against by these height barriers.


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## rayrecrok

Hi.

I do not think it is aimed at us personally, I think we are just collateral damage in the effort to keep travellers away from holiday makers who might be put off visiting and spending their money locally.

Just my take on it, which might be entirely wrong..

ray.


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## wakk44

That's a shame,another couple of nice wild camping spots gone. 

We had a few days at Skegness a couple of weeks ago and went to the south side of town to the car park at Princes parade as they have about half a dozen dedicated motorhoming bays.

They are indeed very good spots near the beach and 5 minutes from the town centre,charges were £4 for 6 hours and £7 for 24 hours.Before everyone gets too excited the rules are-no overnight sleeping in vehicles :x The council must expect m/homers to pay for overnight parking and stop in a guest house or hotel. :roll:

There is an excellent opportunity to make a continental style aire in a part of that car park,provide water,CDP,and possibly a coin operated barrier to keep out the boy racers(there are quite a few)then I am sure most folks would willingly pay the overnight charge.

I was talking to an MHF member who lives locally about this subject and was informed that some of the local councillors have business interests in caravan sites and hotels so it is hardly surprising that they are not motorhome friendly.

We parked on the roadside free of charge and enjoyed a lovely weekend. ,spending about £200 in local shops,restaurants and a trip to a show at the Embassy theatre.

Until the local councils wake up to the commercial opportunity of providing aires type facilities for motorhomes a lot of us will continue going abroad to spend our money and being welcomed by the locals.


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## peejay

Another one bites the dust 

Briarose I wonder if you would mind putting a review in the database entry to keep it up to date, you'll notice the last sentence in the site description is sadly ironic.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=3983

Pete


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## clive1821

Hi I would like someone to explain why the dickens the local councils use the travelers as the reason to exclude us motorhomers, and all france have open aires and seem not to have any difficialty is it something to do with the UK way of life? I'm surprised that dover town council have not stoped marine parade parking as that parking is overlooked by houses and hotels etc.... or am i missing something..... and as already mentioned our local councilers helping them selves and not looking after the voters interests....?


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## peedee

wakk44 said:


> I was talking to an MHF member who lives locally about this subject and was informed that some of the local councillors have business interests in caravan sites and hotels so it is hardly surprising that they are not motorhome friendly.


From experience, that doesn't surprise me but doesn't the town and environments now come under the LCC? Does the town council actually have any power over this matter?

peedee


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## Briarose

peejay said:


> Another one bites the dust
> 
> Briarose I wonder if you would mind putting a review in the database entry to keep it up to date, you'll notice the last sentence in the site description is sadly ironic.
> 
> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Campsites&op=display_results&csid=3983
> 
> Pete


Hi Pete I have now done so.


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## Briarose

Skegness Town Council website.

If anyone wants to contact them regarding this.
http://www.skegness.gov.uk/


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## peedee

Thanks Briarose. It appears my previous comment about responsibility is correct.
This from the STC site



> Skegness Town Council has relatively few responsibilities as far as Public Property is concerned, but we take our responsibilities seriously and try to do our best for you all within the resources available to us. We look after public seats, bus shelters, litter bins, Christmas illuminations, allotments and cemeteries.
> 
> Please bear in mind that the Foreshore of Skegness belongs to >East Lindsey District Council<, and the litter bins, public seats and illuminations along the seafront are not the responsibility of Skegness Town Council.


So should you not be contacting the LDC?

peedee


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## 747

What I neglected to say in my first post (there is a lot of this Dementia about 8O ) was that the chap I spoke to gave me a bit of useful information if you have horses. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: 

They have to leave a small area of Tarmac outside of the height barrier so that horse boxes can park up. otherwise horse owners would not be able to bring their horses to the beach for exercise.

So, if you are local to the area and there is no hardstanding before the height barrier, complain to the Council about your yooman rites. We all know that most m/homers also have horses.


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## peedee

747 said:


> We all know that most m/homers also have horses.


Yup, I keep mine under the bonnet, all 156 of them.

peedee


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## val33

Perhaps someone should point out to the council that their 'Twinned' city in Germany has an excellent Stelplatz 

Bad-Gandersheim stelplatz

Val


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## barryd

I would be interested to see a response from the council as to why we have been discriminated by them.

What problems have occurred in order for them to go to the expense of installing height barriers to keep motorhomes out? It must have been serious surely.

When I see threads like this it makes my blood boil. This country is just run by short sighted dimwits. I wonder just how much money the motorhome community spends abroad each year as a result of such blinkered vision?

Of course now they have installed height barriers this will immediately result in all the wild campers flocking to the local campsites wont it! :lol:


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## wakk44

val33 said:


> Perhaps someone should point out to the council that their 'Twinned' city in Germany has an excellent Stelplatz
> 
> Bad-Gandersheim stelplatz
> 
> Val


Good idea,aren't towns twinned because they have a lot in common?

If so it might be an idea to point out how forward thinking the town that their twinned with is for providing a place for motorhomers to park up overnight near the town centre.


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## 747

Part of the problem Barry is that a few vans took up almost permanent residence in the area.

The 2 outstanding ones were:

A one legged man who lives in his car permanently there. I kid you not. 

A man who has 2 vehicles permanently parked up. One is a LWB Land Rover and the other is a small truck, kitted out as a mobile workshop. Customers used to bring cars down to Moggs Eye for him to fix.

There are a number of local lads who live in their vans full time but tended to spread themselves out between a number of places in the area. Some of these lads have homes nearby (Mablethorpe etc). They either let them stand empty or rent them out.

One lad has a nice 08 reg van on a Transit base. On the overcab in big writing is 'THE BANDIT'. That is because he only has one arm. :lol: 

I met a few of them, they are a good bunch of lads and there is no harm in them at all.

When we there, we moved on to Huttoft Car Terrace (as we never stay too long in one place). There were lots of m/homes overnighting. We went up the far end out of the way but had a walk back along the terrace to check out the toilets etc. One of the Whippets got a Rabbit beside the toilet block and carried it all the way back to the van. I was half expecting some car owner to report me to the Police but luckily nothing happened.


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## barryd

So what? As long as the one armed bandit isnt causing a problem or making a mess why is it a problem?

Just leave the poor bugger alone I say.

As long as they leave space for cars etc whats the problem?

Of course most non motorhomers probably consider us all undesirable traveller types and that just wont do will it? Nobody likes to see somebody getting something for nothing in the UK either. How often on this forum and others have we seen the word freeloader?


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## Briarose

The district council is ELDC
http://www.e-lindsey.gov.uk/

Edit just found this old topic. Might explain a lot
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-84291-days0-orderasc-0.html

Presumably the golf ball lady is involved too :wink: And I guess is the lady referred to in a previous post in this topic.


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## peedee

Just a thought. I notice in my review in 2007 of the Huttoft Car terrace I had noted that there were signs stating no camping. I assume this also applies at other parking spots along the coast.

Are the height barriers being installed because motorhomers abused this by overnighting???

peedee


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## peedee

peedee said:


> I assume this also applies at other parking spots along the coast.
> 
> Are the height barriers being installed because motorhomers abused this by overnighting???
> 
> peedee


I note peejay in his entry for Moggs Eye also points out "There are 'No Overnight Camping' signs all over the place but you'd probably get away with it out of season."

Looks to me as though the few have spoilt it for the many by overnighting. What a great shame. 
peedee


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## The-Cookies

the few occasions we have been on there just for the day, not to overnight, there have been a few scruffy old vans on there where the owners are actually living in the vans, although not interfering with any ones pleasure i would like to bet its because of these that the barriers have gone up.

a shame because we enjoyed it there


John


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## peedee

We have seen many parking places denied to us over the years, due to real or otherwise abuse. I have lost count and really cannot see any other solution to obtaining improvements until there are stronger laws to instantly move on or punish those who abuse.

peedee


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## 747

Sorry peedee but I have to disagree with your view of the few spoiling it for the many.

Why should there be a ban on overnighting in the first place?

Millions have fought and died to preserve the freedoms we have (had?). The Natzis at least were open about their intentions, not like the devious skulking Councils. We are far too soft in this country, it is time we had an awakening of our own. If our Politicians felt threatened by our intentions, we might have a better place to live.

Most m/homers just shrug their shoulders and go abroad.


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## peedee

747 said:


> Sorry peedee but I have to disagree with your view of the few spoiling it for the many.
> 
> Why should there be a ban on overnighting in the first place?


Whether there should or shouldn't be a ban on camping is irrelevant. The fact was we could park there for the day, free of charge. That freedom has now been denied due, in my view, to some not following what restrictions had been imposed.

I suppose 747 you will next be saying it is ok to throw litter on the site or not clear up after a dog.

peedee


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## 747

Hi peedee,

With having 6 dogs, you would soon notice if I stopped picking up. :lol: 

As for 'no overnighting' signs, quite a few of them have no basis whatsoever in Law. many organisations put up signs without any local byelaw or Road Traffic order. They are in fact illegal signs. The latest being the Highland and Island Council in Scotland admitting that the hundreds of signs they put up are unenforceable in Law.

My position is that if there is a sign with the logo of an organisation and mention of a legal order then I will obey it 100%. If there is just a bit of metal with 'no overnighting' on it, then I may ignore it. It would depend on the view. :lol: This is because there is plenty of evidence that Councils think we are sheep and treat us accordingly. If I am proved wrong, what can they do to me? If they try to make me pay a fine or threaten me with Court action, I would welcome this, just so I could get publicity (the last thing the Council would want).

You are perfectly entitled to blindly follow instructions on signs but they are not always what they seem. Do a bit of googling and you may learn a few things that could surprise you.


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## barryd

I'm with the Rude Gnome on this one but I have to admit to being one of the ones who simply clears off to Europe.

I would be interested to know exactly what problems these people who were overnighting there were causing but I suspect we will never find out.

I just bet its some bitter local with the ear of some councillor who has complained simply because of the attitude in the UK to people with motorhomes. It doesn't work the other way round. When we lobby councils for the removal of barriers or for Aires they are not interested.

Sadly its the way this country is and it is one of the reasons we do buckle and disappear over the channel.


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## peedee

747 said:


> As for 'no overnighting' signs, quite a few of them have no basis whatsoever in Law.


Which was precisely my point when I said:


> I have lost count and really cannot see any other solution to obtaining improvements until there are stronger laws to instantly move on or punish those who abuse.


If the guardian or owner of the land had more powers at their disposal height barriers would not be necessary.

Again whether the signs were legal or not is irrelevant. They were put there because for what ever reason camping was not wanted. Briarose has already provided a link which showed the parking privilege was likely to be under threat. In the end the council has obviously had no alternative but to take steps to further enforce its wishes.

peedee


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## Sonesta

Decent law abiding people who have always lead a responsible life, worked hard, reared their families, kept a clean, tidy and respectable home and never caused anyone any harm are hardly likely to buy a motorhome and go around reeking mayhem and havoc all over the countryside are they? Most people who own an expensive motorhome and enjoy the freedom that wildcamping allows them, do so because their motorhome is purposely equipped for such activities. It is my belief that most of us would never dream of behaving in a manner that would be deemed irresponsible. What harm is a decent couple who choose to stop overnight on an empty car park near the beach doing to anyone? Granted if they were leaving mess behind and taking advantage, then of course that would be a completely different story but an overnight stop over in a car park that is empty, is not the crime of the century by any stretch of the imagination! 

Why don't the local councils charge a fee to motorhomers who would like to park up overnight and cash in on the extra revenue it would bring to their doors? They could have a 2 night maximum stay along with a restriction on how many vans they could accomodate each night and of course during the day time we motorhomers could park up our vans and enjoy a day on the beach or vist the local area like any other road legal vehicle can. Providing we pay the necessary car parking fees applicable, then I cannot see what anybody's argument could be? 

Makes sense to me and then surely those 'freeloaders' who DO take advantage would then either have to cough up or move on! 

Sue


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## 747

I give up !!!!! :roll: 

I said earlier in this thread that I had met some of the regulars at Moggs Eye and they were a good bunch and I could not really fault them. The 2 people who could be seen to be taking advantage of the place did not have a motorhome at all, please go back and read my posts. None of the above leave any mess, unlike the day trippers who fling their rubbish everywhere. 

Yes, there are regulars there with old self build motorcaravans. The fact that they cannot afford an all singing all dancing state of the art m/home does not matter to me at all. In fact, some of the bad examples set by m/homers have been those in brand new and very expensive vans.

Just to add, there is another area of the UK, not far from me, which has become out of bounds to m/homes overnighting. It is not a total loss as there may be what almost amounts to an Aire up and running shortly. No doubt you will sing its praises if it comes off but it did not happen overnight or without a lot of effort by m/homers. I do not mean the ones who sit back and moan but the ones who are trying to remedy the state of victimisation of our pastime. A lot of the credit must also go to an employee of the Council for this, even though he is having to convince his bosses of the merits of this.

I wish I could have put it across as well as Sonesta. She has the love of wilding that I have.


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## sunshinebus

We too are with Mr Rude Gnome, there are very few places to stop in the UK as it is. 

Councils bow to pressure from campsites and guest houses to stop law abiding citizens staying anywhere. We are not looking to take up residence only stop for a night. 

We buy provisions in their local shops and treat ourselves to a nice meal if we want. Bringing in needed revenue to local business.

We too head off the Calais the first chance we get, the UK is not Motorhome friendly unless you are prepared to pay to go on a campsite. We could take a leaf out of the french book... (although I dont like to say so) if we provide Aires to motorhomers we would support local business and have a safe place to stop overnight.

Too many people are small minded and dont like to think that other people are having more fun then they are.... they should get a life.. We have


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## The-Cookies

i said they lived in scruffy vans i didn't say they messed up the place, but unfortunately someone in a position of power doesn't think the same as us. 


so long as they or us don't cause bother or mess whats the problem.


John


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## peedee

The-Cookies said:


> so long as they or us don't cause bother or mess whats the problem.
> John


They didn't have the permission of the land owner! Even in Norway, one of the very liberal places to wild camp, if you want to wild within a certain distance of a dwelling, whether they own the land or not, you have to seek the dwelling owners permission.

peedee


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## peedee

Briarose said:


> The district council is ELDC
> http://www.e-lindsey.gov.uk/


I contacted the ELDC, they replied that the Lincolnshire County Council is responsible for the parking areas along the coast. So if you want to have a moan about the errection of height barriers, their telephone number is 01522 552222

peedee


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## peedee

Having found out who is really responsible for the car parks, I note that the development of the carparks is part of a much bigger scheme to introduce a Coastal Country Park with visitors centre and full facilities.

The introduction of height barriers is in response to the requests of the Huttoft Parish Council and in particular to complaints received from a parishioner. This extract is from the minutes of the Anderby Creek Parish minutes of the 16th May 2011.



> The Clerk reported she had received a copy of correspondence between District Councillor Leivers and a parishioner about overnight parking at Moggs Eye. Although it had been noted, during the presentation by Kate Percival at the Annual Parish Meeting, height barriers are to be constructed at all the beach car parks, it was agreed it was an enforcement issue and that the Police should be invited to come along to the next Parish Council meeting to discuss the matter.


Large vehicles are not to be totally banned, proper provision is being made at the entrance of some carparks but at Moggs Eye there are to be only TWO day parking spots. This is taken from the planning application:



> The application has been designed to enable large vehicles such as camper vans or horse boxes, to park at Marsh Yard/Moggs Eye car park. The associated turning head has been designed so that these large vehicles can enter and exit the parking bays safely. A timber post and rail fence would be constructed to surround the development preventing vehicles from driving in the grassed and vegetated areas. As the parking bay is designed for two vehicles it is felt that there would be no additional vehicle movements added
> to the current number which consists of vehicles entering and exiting the existing car park.


The Wildcamping Forum reported a great deal of abuse of the parking spots and is not surprised at the restrictions now imposed. They also report installation of the timber fence and posts make it impossible to back the overhang of a motorhome beyond the parking bays.

peedee


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## 747

I am a member of the Wildcamping forum and I do not recall the thread you mention. Could you name the thread and I can do a search for it. The only one I can think of is Bye Bye Moggs Eye, is that the one?

I heard the other day that although the posts are in place, no height barrier has been erected and some of the regulars are still there.

BTW, the Parishioner responsible is generally known as 'The Witch of Moggs Eye', a very old, cantankerous and very odd lady. She has been known to throw golf balls at M/homes.


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## peedee

Yes I think one of them was "Bye Bye Moggs Eye" I found the reference by Googling Moggs Eye.

If it was all down to the complaint of one person, I find that incredible, surely there was more to it than that?

peedee


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## peedee

A bit late last night for a fuller response, I was nodding off and couldn't really concentrate. I actually googled "Moggs Eye and motorhomes" and came up with three or four posts in the Wildcamping Forum. Another one was " moggs eye...is it open yet?" 

Seems as though it has just got too popular with far to many motorhomes using the parking spots with single vehicles often taking up more than one spot. Generators were also being used. There is at least one report of a motorhomer unable to find space because they had all been taken by other motorhomes. I could imagine locals wanting to park to walk their dogs in the morning complaining about that! 

Of course there are the usual reports of rubbish being left and hints of a toilet block being abused in a council report.

The police never/couldn't take any action so it looks like the council's only recourse was to erect height barriers.

peedee


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## barryd

Well it does sound like its been abused and thats a shame. Im also a member of the wildcamping forum and generally most members do follow a set of guidelines that discourages long term parking or group parking.

It shows what we are up against though where all it takes is a complaint from one person and up go the height barriers. would it work the other way round if I complain to my local council and ask them to take them down or if one person heaven forbid suggest they install an Aire? No it would probably take a life time of canvassing and protests.

The issue I think is the Brits are just too territorial. "Not in my backyard" attitude. Ive seen the scraps in our village just because someone has had the audacity to park their car in front of someone elses house or on "their" grass. It really is pathetic.


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## 747

Just to clarify something.

Moggs Eye consists of an average size car park on one side and a huge open grassy area with a road running through it. There is room for hundreds of vehicles, so there would never be a complaint by motorists of m/homes muscling them out.

I have seen m/homes parked sideways to the 'normal' way at Huttoft car terrace. This might cause some concern on a hot and sunny day in summer when the place is very popular. Again, it is a very large area and this would not normally be an issue.

For clarity, check out both places on Google Earth.


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## Sonesta

We only live approx 30 mins drive away from Moggs Eye and Huttoft Terrace and we have wildcamped on the Huttoft Terrace on a few ocassions now.

One new years eve myself, my husband, our daugher and our son in law decided to head off to the Huttoft Terrace and spend the night there. It is directly on the beach and our 2 dogs love being able to run around in the sand etc. We thought it would be nice to meet up with my brother and his family too and we could all enjoy and see the new year in together in this very charming spot. We each prepared a buffet spread, chilled the wine and beer and enjoyed a lovely evening chaqtting and laughing together and at midnight we set off a few fireworks to remember past loved ones and celebrate the forthcoming year ahead. 

There was nobody else up there apart from us and the next morning it was wonderful waking up to the sounds of the sea and the waves crashing onto the beach. The tide was in, so the sea was only a few feet in front of us and it was a truly beautiful scene. We collected up our burnt out firework remnants and apart from a few tyre tracks, nobody would have known we had ever been there!

Granted it can get a bit silly in the height of the season now and whereas in the past, only a very few knew about these 2 locations, word has now spread (probably via the internet) and sadly it is no longer the little 'secret' spot it used to be! Even though we love to wildcamp, I have to admit, that the last time we were up there (in our car) there were lots of motorhomes parked up and one even had a really noisy genny going! Tjis was on a busy, hot day where lots of families were chilling out on the beach etc. I thought this was very inconsiderate, especially as the car park is only feet away from where people were laid out on the beach relaxing and to be honest there were that many motorhomes parked up, with dogs tied up outside or chairs and tables set up, that it looked more like a travellers camp than a car park! This is how and why the inconsiderate spoil it for we responsible folk and sadly we all then get tarred with the same tainted brush.

If the powers that be (ie the local council) were to actually charge those of us who wish to park there for the day or night, a fair tariff and actually set up a few designated motorhome parking bays, then we motorhomers could still enjoy the freedom of a day out at the beach or perhaps an overnight stopover and the 'freeloaders' that people often refer to when the subject of wildcamping gets aired, would very quickly disappear if they suddenly had to cough up for their pitch!

Sue


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## n4ked

Oh this is not good news as were on our way to the prom tonight for the weekend then on to see the seals. Any suggestions on anywhere else to park


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## n4ked

barryd said:


> So what? As long as the one armed bandit isnt causing a problem or making a mess why is it a problem?
> 
> Just leave the poor bugger alone I say.
> 
> As long as they leave space for cars etc whats the problem?
> 
> Of course most non motorhomers probably consider us all undesirable traveller types and that just wont do will it? Nobody likes to see somebody getting something for nothing in the UK either. How often on this forum and others have we seen the word freeloader?


Here is an update

I have to say i have met the one armed bandit, yes he does have a house but chooses to spend the summer in the uk and uk winter abroad, he is a very nice guy and gave us lots of POIs for places in Spain. He is never a problem to anyone.

I spent this weekend with the family including my cat and dog on the terrace, cat running up and down the beach playing tag with the dog. while there I managed to speak with local fisherman and owner of an American motorhome, he now informs me that there will be no further barriers according to the local enviromental health department. I only hope that he is right.


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## barryd

n4ked said:


> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what? As long as the one armed bandit isnt causing a problem or making a mess why is it a problem?
> 
> Just leave the poor bugger alone I say.
> 
> As long as they leave space for cars etc whats the problem?
> 
> Of course most non motorhomers probably consider us all undesirable traveller types and that just wont do will it? Nobody likes to see somebody getting something for nothing in the UK either. How often on this forum and others have we seen the word freeloader?
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an update
> 
> I have to say i have met the one armed bandit, yes he does have a house but chooses to spend the summer in the uk and uk winter abroad, he is a very nice guy and gave us lots of POIs for places in Spain. He is never a problem to anyone.
> 
> I spent this weekend with the family including my cat and dog on the terrace, cat running up and down the beach playing tag with the dog. while there I managed to speak with local fisherman and owner of an American motorhome, he now informs me that there will be no further barriers according to the local enviromental health department. I only hope that he is right.
Click to expand...

Thanks

I hope to meet him one day. I love meeting fulltimers. They always seem happy and have life sussed..

Even the skint ones seem happier than most.


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## n4ked

barryd said:


> n4ked said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barryd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what? As long as the one armed bandit isnt causing a problem or making a mess why is it a problem?
> 
> Just leave the poor bugger alone I say.
> 
> As long as they leave space for cars etc whats the problem?
> 
> Of course most non motorhomers probably consider us all undesirable traveller types and that just wont do will it? Nobody likes to see somebody getting something for nothing in the UK either. How often on this forum and others have we seen the word freeloader?
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an update
> 
> I have to say i have met the one armed bandit, yes he does have a house but chooses to spend the summer in the uk and uk winter abroad, he is a very nice guy and gave us lots of POIs for places in Spain. He is never a problem to anyone.
> 
> I spent this weekend with the family including my cat and dog on the terrace, cat running up and down the beach playing tag with the dog. while there I managed to speak with local fisherman and owner of an American motorhome, he now informs me that there will be no further barriers according to the local enviromental health department. I only hope that he is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> I hope to meet him one day. I love meeting fulltimers. They always seem happy and have life sussed..
> 
> Even the skint ones seem happier than most.
Click to expand...

He is a nice guy, a little blunt ex city boy but he is straight down the line, at least you know where you stand.


----------



## peedee

peedee said:


> Briarose said:
> 
> 
> 
> The district council is ELDC
> http://www.e-lindsey.gov.uk/
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted the ELDC, they replied that the Lincolnshire County Council is responsible for the parking areas along the coast.
> 
> peedee
Click to expand...

I contacted the LCC just to clarify the position and to ask where I could now park my motorhome for the day when visiting the area. Here is there response:



> Dear xxxxxxxx
> 
> Height barriers are being erected at some sites along the coast as part of measures to control the increasing problem of illegal overnight camping by users of motorhomes. The actions of a number of motorhome owners is causing this response. The other means by which this is to be tackled is through bye-laws.
> 
> So far only barriers have been erected at Chapel Six Marshes. There is not currently an intention to install height barriers at Huttoft Car Terrace, but we are reviewing options.
> 
> Lincolnshire County Council works closely with local communities through the County and this issue is seen by local reidents as being a 'constant running sore' hence the need to address it.


So if you want to see enforcement brought in at the Huttoft Car Terrace and spoil it for the more law abiding and see the rules more rigorously applied, just carry on overnighting! 

peedee


----------



## nicholsong

The response from LCC does highlight the problem of trying to persuade councils to provide for MHs.

It is that we normally want to visit places where we do not have a local vote - very few people overnight close to home.

Therefore local council officers can simply ignore any representations, as they are not from members of the 'local community'

Geoff


----------



## peedee

nicholsong said:


> The response from LCC does highlight the problem of trying to persuade councils to provide for MHs.
> Geoff


and the problem will only get worse while some flout requests not to overnight. To some extent I agree with Sonesta that charging to overnight should be the way forward but I suspect this would still be abused by those who set up camp or stay for longer than 24hrs. The problems still remains as to how do you police it without the necessary bye laws in place. Perhaps this is where the LCC is heading when it refers to putting bye laws in place?

peedee


----------



## Sonesta

I do think it is rather silly that local councils do NOT cash in on this obvious gap in the market! What a golden opportunity there is here for many local councils to bring in some much needed revenue and surely they cannot fail to see the logic of taking advantage of people who holiday and tour around in self sufficient motorhomes? 

It just seems ludicrous to my my way of thinking NOT to permit people who own a motorhome to pay to park up in a otherwise empty car park overnight and if the councils were to lay down certain guidelines and restrictions; such as the maximum number of nights anyone could park up for and strict arrival and departure times etc., then I cannot see how anyone could actively take advantage? 

My guess is this sort of scheme could prove to be quite a lucrative sideline for many privately and council owned car parks and providing this scheme was properly policed, I could see it putting some very good use to a plot of land that otherwise would only just be stood there empty half of the day doing and earning absolutely nothing! :roll: 

Lets say for example a car park was to charge a motorhome £7.00 per night between the hours 6.00pm - 10.00am this would be additional revenue, yet it would still leave the car park free throughout the day for everyone else and of course those motorhomers who only wished to visit the area for the day, would then just be charged the normal parking rates like everyone else. Obviously they would have to pay the car parking fees applicable for the number of bays that their particular vehicle took up but at least this would be non discriminatory and fair. 

Makes sense to me - what do you think?  

Sue


----------



## n4ked

After working abroad for many years and returning to the UK, why doe english people not see that you are nearing living a police state. UK has more rules than Russia, yes worked there for ten years too.. Beacy Head car park attendant told me that they can't afford to offer facilities for motorhomes but don't check betweek 18.00 and 08.00. Guess it only takes a few to spoil it at mogg eye like the white transit where the lady dumps her toilet waste all over the ladies toilet floor that's what gets us all a bad name and people complaining.


----------



## Sonesta

n4ked said:


> Guess it only takes a few to spoil it at mogg eye like the white transit where the lady dumps her toilet waste all over the ladies toilet floor that's what gets us all a bad name and people complaining.


Why on earth would anyone do such an absolutely pointless and disgusting thing? Surely she cannot be right in the head to carry her cassette to the toilet block and then empty her toilet waste on the floor rather than down the loo? :roll:

Anyone who wishes to wildcamp in peace without creating any negativity towards them or any problems would certainly not behave in such a manner would they, so are you absolutley sure this woman is the one responsible? Was she caught in the act and if so - did anyone tell her what they thought of her deplorable behaviour? I know if I had seen her doing such a thing, I would have given her a piece of my mind, especially as she is getting us all tarred with the same brush and although I don't like confrontations I would have found it hard to keep my trap shut if I had been witness to it!

People like that are not proper 'wildcampers' in my opinion and to be honest if this is an accurate observation of her antics then my guess is that the woman is not mentally stable! 

Sue


----------



## n4ked

She was in a white converted transit van with a small caravan window on the side this summer. I was a witness along with my girlfriend who cleaned up the mess in the ladies toilet.. What I would like to say on here about them might get me banned.. Makes me wonder what their home is like if this is how they behave.


----------



## barryd

makes sense to me Sue. It needs some effort by people like yourself who have a gift for putting forward a reasoned case and have the patience to persist and press the right buttons.

However having witnessed several attempts to coerce councils into seeing the advatages of schemes such as the one you suggest they nearly always fall on deaf ears and blinkered vision. I loose interest quickly as most of the people who make the decisions are morons and often have the ear of local campsite owners or like most none motorhomers in Britain just think we are free loading gypsies who want something for nothing. As we all k now nobody in this country can stand to see anyone else getting something for nothng or as even as you suggest something got not very much money!

We spent an hour today trying to find a wild spot in the langdales in the lake district. Not a chance. Found a perfectly good car park. Free but no overnighting signs everywhere. By 4pm it would have been empty of cars and what harm would we have done?

I just can't get involved as I will very quickly just loose it. I can't stand the attitude in this country anymore and I am very close to leaving for good.


----------



## Sonesta

n4ked said:


> She was in a white converted transit van with a small caravan window on the side this summer. I was a witness along with my girlfriend who cleaned up the mess in the ladies toilet.. What I would like to say on here about them might get me banned.. Makes me wonder what their home is like if this is how they behave.


So she actually carried her cassette all the way to the toilet then dumped it's contents on the floor? :roll: Well - that is unbelievable and I can only assume that the woman is not fully compos-mentis!  Seems bizarre to me that she'd go to the effort of carrying her casette all the way to the toilets in the first place, especially if she had absolutely no regard for the environment or for others around her and surely someone with her mentality would have found it far easier to just dump it on the ground, the beach or even in the sea????? Not suggesting any of those are acceptable alternatives - far from it in fact - but I'm just puzzled as to why she would choose the more difficult method of these possible scenarios!

I would have made her clean it up herself and if she had refused I would have reported her to the police as I think as this would have been classed as a health hazhard surely?

Your girlfriend must have a strong stomach I must say as I would have been physically sick having to clean up a strangers toilet waste! YUK! 8O


----------



## n4ked

Sonesta said:


> n4ked said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was in a white converted transit van with a small caravan window on the side this summer. I was a witness along with my girlfriend who cleaned up the mess in the ladies toilet.. What I would like to say on here about them might get me banned.. Makes me wonder what their home is like if this is how they behave.
> 
> 
> 
> So she actually carried her cassette all the way to the toilet then dumped it's contents on the floor? :roll: Well - that is unbelievable and I can only assume that the woman is not fully compos-mentis!  Seems bizarre to me that she'd go to the effort of carrying her casette all the way to the toilets in the first place, especially if she had absolutely no regard for the environment or for others around her and surely someone with her mentality would have found it far easier to just dump it on the ground, the beach or even in the sea????? Not suggesting any of those are acceptable alternatives - far from it in fact - but I'm just puzzled as to why she would choose the more difficult method of these possible scenarios!
> 
> I would have made her clean it up herself and if she had refused I would have reported her to the police as I think as this would have been classed as a health hazhard surely?
> 
> Your girlfriend must have a strong stomach I must say as I would have been physically sick having to clean up a strangers toilet waste! YUK! 8O
Click to expand...

I guess she had to clean up the mess as has a young daughter and was on her way to the toilets. by the time she told me they had gone as usual but they have since been on the terrace, even if her spillage was an accident she could have made an effort. Good thing i did not see it happening otherwise i would have made them both clean it.

That was around August time when i had my old 48 year old Blue and White classic Dub, sure many of you will now know who i am now, not always had a hymer with a toilet and shower to play in, poor dub had to go as she was getting hammered camping all the time and just too small for two children, two adults a cat and a dog. At least she went to a great home.


----------



## barryd

I'm in no way doubting N4ked's account of what happened but I do wonder if a lot of these claims by none motorhomers or council officials of abuse By wild campers are as made up as all the gassing claims.

They certainly work. Once we hear a report of "another place closed due to people dumping their loo on the beach", "eating the local children" etc etc. We are very quick to say we spoiled it for ourselves.

What if it's nonesense? I bet most of it is. Would any sound of mind motorhomer reallly dump their casette in a hedge or scatter rubbish around a wild camp spot? Perhaps I'm naive but it is kind of an easy story to make up in order to get a bylaw and no overnighting sign put up


----------



## n4ked

n4ked said:


> After working abroad for many years and returning to the UK, why doe english people not see that you are nearing living a police state. UK has more rules than Russia, yes worked there for ten years too.. Beacy Head car park attendant told me that they can't afford to offer facilities for motorhomes but don't check betweek 18.00 and 08.00. Guess it only takes a few to spoil it at mogg eye like the white transit where the lady dumps her toilet waste all over the ladies toilet floor that's what gets us all a bad name and people complaining.


sorry not good at typing on my silly phone


----------



## n4ked

n4ked said:


> n4ked said:
> 
> 
> 
> After working abroad for many years and returning to the UK, why do english people not see that you are nearing living a police state. UK has more rules than Russia, yes worked there for ten years too.. Beachy Head car park attendant told me that they can't afford to offer facilities for motorhomes but don't check betweek 18.00 and 08.00. Guess it only takes a few to spoil it at mogg eye like the white transit where the lady dumps her toilet waste all over the ladies toilet floor that's what gets us all a bad name and people complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> started carrying a camera as at moggs eye there is an old lady who is against campers, someone said that she throws eggs, has half a dozen dogs, think i posted before that in the past her dog crapped on the beach and she left it and i know that she is a local. What makes me laugh is that i see so many no dog signs, wondering if next becuase of me i will see a no cats sign.
Click to expand...


----------



## HeatherChloe

There seem to be a range of separate things here.

*1. What kind of parking does any particular car park want during the daytime? *

Sounds like cars only?

No minibuses full of school children or youth clubs? No vans? No motorhomes? No higher vehicles for disabled people requiring a wheelchair?

If so - why? Why not a minibus of school children?

I can't see why any car park open to cars would want to stop minibuses, motorhomes and vans going in to the carpark during the day.

Is there logically any reason why a higher height vehicle is not allowed to be in a car park during the daytime?

*2. Does the carpark wish to restrict motorhomes being parked there overnight? *

If so, why?

Some carparks will close at night - so if there is a car in it, there is no access to that car until it opens in the morning.

Cars are often allowed to park overnight in car parks because if someone goes out for dinner, has a few drinks, and takes a taxi home, returning to collect their car in the morning, there really isn't any problem and it's regarded as responsible.

If cars are allowed to stay overnight, why not a motorhome? Like many people, I always keep my curtains drawn when I leave the van parked, to stop people peering in, and so whether I am in it, or not in it, who would know??

If the carpark was a multistorey, I can see that there might be a fire escape problem if someone was in the motorhome overnight when the carpark access was restricted. But this fire escape rule cannot apply when the carpark is for example an open field by the beach.

*3. Is it more of a problem of taste / damage / rubbish / mess?*

I can imagine that in a "nice" area, you don't want to have scruffy messy vans, with loud lager swilling tattoo'd people, who put steps, and mats, and buckets outside your van - because people just don't like the "tone" of that.

I can also imagine that where people leave rubbish, do not dispose of grey or black waste properly, create noise, play games outside disurbing people, then again this might not be the kind of thing people want.

But in that case, surely the rule has to be "no dumping", "no ball games", "no noise" etc?

Why is it fair to stop a minibus full of disabled children from parking at the beach just because some people in motorhomes who make mess and noise are not welcomed by the local population?

I would note that I went to a beach car park at Climping and they had a height barrier, but it was manned, and all I had to do was ask them to lift it, pay my parking fee, and I was in. Obviously no overnighting was allowed, but the point was at least I could visit the beach as much as any car.

Whereas when I went to the Bath Park & Ride in order to get the bus into town, there was no chance of parking there because of the height barrier. I understand they don't want travellers, but why not simply close completely at night?


----------



## Sonesta

barryd said:


> makes sense to me Sue. It needs some effort by people like yourself who have a gift for putting forward a reasoned case and have the patience to persist and press the right buttons.
> 
> However having witnessed several attempts to coerce councils into seeing the advatages of schemes such as the one you suggest they nearly always fall on deaf ears and blinkered vision. I loose interest quickly as most of the people who make the decisions are morons and often have the ear of local campsite owners or like most none motorhomers in Britain just think we are free loading gypsies who want something for nothing. As we all k now nobody in this country can stand to see anyone else getting something for nothng or as even as you suggest something got not very much money!
> 
> We spent an hour today trying to find a wild spot in the langdales in the lake district. Not a chance. Found a perfectly good car park. Free but no overnighting signs everywhere. By 4pm it would have been empty of cars and what harm would we have done?
> 
> I just can't get involved as I will very quickly just loose it. I can't stand the attitude in this country anymore and I am very close to leaving for good.


I know what you mean Barry and when we were in Whitby earlier this year we had a bit of a run in with a car park attendant one morning. It was early season and hardly any campsites were open and those that were, were way out of the resort centre. My brother, his partner and their little girl were in their Autotrail and we were in our Burstner and we paid £10.00 each to park up overnight in the coach bay of the car town centre park. The notice board stated vehicles over so many metres in length were allowed to park overnight in a coach bay. The next morning we then purchased a daytime parking ticket as we wanted to spend the day visiting Whitby, so we bought a new parking ticket and displayed it in our cab windows. When the car park attendant came along he was a right jobsworth and asked us if we had camped up overnight in our motorhomes, which of course we immediately replied we had done but we added that we had paid the applicable overnight parking charges. He said we were allowed to park our vehicle in the car park overnight but we were NOT allowed to sleep in them! I said that was riduculous, it was a motorhome and it was designed for sleeping in etc., I explained it had a seperate bedroom and a bathroom and we did not need any other facilities; just a place to park and he replied that although we were allowed to park our vehicle in the car park overnight, we could not actually sleep in our vehicles and we should have checked into a hotel or b&b overnight! 8O He treated us like we were hobos and his attitude towards us was very condescending! :roll:

We spent a fair amount of money in Whitby that night and the following day and we also both stocked up at the local co-op supermarket whilst we were there and as it was a quiet time of year tourist wise, I feel we and people like us, help to bring much needed revenue into the area. So rather than deter us, especially when campsites are closed, they should be looking for ways to attract us to their doors!

It makes me cross too Barry and when we were in Northumberland last winter, again at a time of year when most campsites and CL's were closed, we found ourselves in the awkward position of not being able to find anywhere to actually stay! We had no choice but to wildcamp and to be honest most places we visited in the area, we were treated like lepers whenever we attempted to park up for night. NO CAMPING signs were everywhere and yet there were empty car parks stood empty in places where winter tourists were obviously being actively encouraged to visit!

When we visited Ireland in June/July this year - we had the most wonderful experience of being welcomed everywhere we went and what a difference it made to our trip? The Irish people love the fact that you wish to visit and stay in their country and show their appreciation by bending over backwards to accomodate the visiting tourist and their motorhomes to their cities, towns and villages. Apart from when we spent 3 days in Dublin, we did not stay on hardly any campsites and we had no problems getting fresh water or emptying our toilet and our waste water. A popular place to wildcamp and fill up with water etc is the many marinas you come across and we found the harbour master was often very accomodating to an english motorhomer.

We in the UK have a lot to learn about welcoming the motorhome tourist to our doors and I just hope that some of the councils in this country get their act together in time for the Olympics? This could be an ideal opportunity to introduce some much needed motorhome stopovers with facilities to our popular towns and villages and if they get this right, it may well encourage many foreign motorhome visitors to return back to the UK in the future?

Sue


----------



## n4ked

*wild camping*

I dont think it is about if you camp in a tent motorhome caravan or other. Gosh we did it in an old dub for years, had a travel loo for the children, the worst thing that we ever did was throw the empty hot water away from the kettle when we could not put it out of reach of the children. No one ever knew we had wild camped.

I think it is more about people and how they behave, whatever happened to the countryside code?

Have a look for yourself in the bins on the terrace, there is often a battery, door mats and other rubbish dumped there, not sure who does it but it does not help us wild campers, i am sure that we get the blame regardless. what i dont understand is why people do not take their rubbish home.


----------



## Sonesta

HeatherChloe said:


> There seem to be a range of separate things here.
> 
> *1. What kind of parking does any particular car park want during the daytime? *
> 
> Sounds like cars only?
> 
> No minibuses full of school children or youth clubs? No vans? No motorhomes? No higher vehicles for disabled people requiring a wheelchair?
> 
> If so - why? Why not a minibus of school children?
> 
> I can't see why any car park open to cars would want to stop minibuses, motorhomes and vans going in to the carpark during the day.
> 
> Is there logically any reason why a higher height vehicle is not allowed to be in a car park during the daytime?
> 
> *2. Does the carpark wish to restrict motorhomes being parked there overnight? *
> 
> If so, why?
> 
> Some carparks will close at night - so if there is a car in it, there is no access to that car until it opens in the morning.
> 
> Cars are often allowed to park overnight in car parks because if someone goes out for dinner, has a few drinks, and takes a taxi home, returning to collect their car in the morning, there really isn't any problem and it's regarded as responsible.
> 
> If cars are allowed to stay overnight, why not a motorhome? Like many people, I always keep my curtains drawn when I leave the van parked, to stop people peering in, and so whether I am in it, or not in it, who would know??
> 
> If the carpark was a multistorey, I can see that there might be a fire escape problem if someone was in the motorhome overnight when the carpark access was restricted. But this fire escape rule cannot apply when the carpark is for example an open field by the beach.
> 
> *3. Is it more of a problem of taste / damage / rubbish / mess?*
> 
> I can imagine that in a "nice" area, you don't want to have scruffy messy vans, with loud lager swilling tattoo'd people, who put steps, and mats, and buckets outside your van - because people just don't like the "tone" of that.
> 
> I can also imagine that where people leave rubbish, do not dispose of grey or black waste properly, create noise, play games outside disurbing people, then again this might not be the kind of thing people want.
> 
> But in that case, surely the rule has to be "no dumping", "no ball games", "no noise" etc?
> 
> Why is it fair to stop a minibus full of disabled children from parking at the beach just because some people in motorhomes who make mess and noise are not welcomed by the local population?
> 
> I would note that I went to a beach car park at Climping and they had a height barrier, but it was manned, and all I had to do was ask them to lift it, pay my parking fee, and I was in. Obviously no overnighting was allowed, but the point was at least I could visit the beach as much as any car.
> 
> Whereas when I went to the Bath Park & Ride in order to get the bus into town, there was no chance of parking there because of the height barrier. I understand they don't want travellers, but why not simply close completely at night?


Here! Here! Heather. :thumbright:


----------



## HeatherChloe

Sonesta said:


> I know what you mean Barry and when we were in Whitby earlier this year we had a bit of a run in with a car park attendant one morning. It was early season and hardly any campsites were open and those that were, were way out of the resort centre. My brother, his partner and their little girl were in their Autotrail and we were in our Burstner and we paid £10.00 each to park up overnight in the coach bay of the car town centre park. The notice board stated vehicles over so many metres in length were allowed to park overnight in a coach bay. The next morning we then purchased a daytime parking ticket as we wanted to spend the day visiting Whitby, so we bought a new parking ticket and displayed it in our cab windows. When the car park attendant came along he was a right jobsworth and asked us if we had camped up overnight in our motorhomes, which of course we immediately replied we had done but we added that we had paid the applicable overnight parking charges. He said we were allowed to park our vehicle in the car park overnight but we were NOT allowed to sleep in them! I said that was riduculous, it was a motorhome and it was designed for sleeping in etc., I explained it had a seperate bedroom and a bathroom and we did not need any other facilities; just a place to park and he replied that although we were allowed to park our vehicle in the car park overnight, we could not actually sleep in our vehicles and we should have checked into a hotel or b&b overnight! 8O He treated us like we were hobos and his attitude towards us was very condescending! :roll:


The trouble is that many parking attendants are not very clever people, nor paid very well, so no wonder their attitudes are like that.

Of course it's silly - we've all seen cars drive to car parks and the couple open their flask and pour tea and eat their sandwiches whilst looking at the sea. So we know that you are allowed to sit in your vehicle when you are not driving.

So is there a rule which says exactly how long you can sit in your vehicle?

What if you're not feeling well and you lie down? Is lying down not allowed?

And what if you're tired and you need a nap? We know that the highway code says that if you are tired you should pull over and have a nap. So sleeping per se in vehicles is not against the law.

So when does a flask of tea, a sit down, a lie down, or a nap, become an illegal sleep? If you went clubbing and came back to your motorhome at 3am for a nap, would this be sleeping overnight?

If your vehicle is legally parked then who cares if you are in it or not? Unless there is some kind of fire escape problem or something.

Still, I think it's best if we say: "oh no, we stayed at the Royal Suite at the Grand, and we've just come back now to check on our dog" or some such white lie. Makes life easier for these numbees.


----------



## Sonesta

HeatherChloe said:


> Still, I think it's best if we say: "oh no, we stayed at the Royal Suite at the Grand, and we've just come back now to check on our dog" or some such white lie. Makes life easier for these numbees.


Good idea Heather and it doesn't always pay to tell the truth does it? :wink:

Sue


----------



## HeatherChloe

*Re: wild camping*



n4ked said:


> Have a look for yourself in the bins on the terrace, there is often a battery, door mats and other rubbish dumped there, not sure who does it but it does not help us wild campers, i am sure that we get the blame regardless. what i dont understand is why people do not take their rubbish home.


Dumping things like that in the bins is illegal. Well it is in Westminster anyway. Public bins are for rubbish which you have while you are out and about - not for rubbish the origin of which is your home.

I know this because I once put 13 envelopes of something like the Reader's Digest which was obviously junk mail into the bin outside my block of flats, and we got into trouble with the Council. The bin is only for things like empty cans of coke, sweet wrappers, chip papers, and things that you bought whilst out, and used up.

So there's already a rule against it. What's the point of stopping DAYTIME parking by higher height vehicles? It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


----------



## n4ked

*parking*

I think it is a Uk thing, they just dont like responsible tax paying people enjoying themselves


----------



## HeatherChloe

*Re: parking*



n4ked said:


> I think it is a Uk thing, they just dont like responsible tax paying people enjoying themselves


I think there must be a locality Nimbyism thing too though.

In Westminster I pay about £150 a year for a resident's parking permit - although it doesn't entitle me to somewhere to park, as there are something like 3,000 fewer residents spaces than people have paid for.

But in places like Whitstable, residents can complain about motorhomes parking on a quiet street, when it doesn't stop them parking or anything, since they all have massive front drives, just because they "don't like it".

When I spoke to the Council Parking Officer, he said "residents have complained".

Well I'd like to complain about the number of spaces available for visitors to Covent Garden when I've paid for a space which isn't available to me.... let alone complaining about the type of vehicle which parks outside my flat. But no chance.

I'd like to complain about the White Disabled Badge Bentley which comes every Saturday and takes up the residents bay outside my flat and then stays overnight - presumably because the owner has had a few drinks and is going to pick it up in the morning and somehow manages to get home without it. But apparently, he's allowed to park in the residents bay whenever he wants to without paying. Fair enough if he can't walk, although where he goes overnight and how he gets home and comes back again, who knows???

So why does the Council listen to these residents with their big houses on a sea front that has plenty of room for a few visitors, when the Council here isn't in the slightest bit intersted in listening to me?

I think we'll find it's a class thing - a nice neighbourhood, residents who are well to do, probably have a few drinks with the councillors, who are then more likely to agree with their point of view that it's "not the kind of thing we want round here".


----------



## Sonesta

It is sooooo annoying to read accounts like yours Heather and why oh why do people have such a problem with people owning or parking up a motorhome? Fair enough if it were a rusting old heap of junk, which was blocking their view - then maybe you could see why they may become a bit vexed - but a decent looking motorhome in a well cared for condition, well I'm sorry but I just don't get what the big deal is? :roll: 

We have to tax and MOT a motorhome just like any other road worthy vehicle and surely, we are as entitled to park our motorhome on the road or in a car park just as much as any other motorist can? If we are to be singled out due to size, weight and height etc then surely we should be entitled to be provided with designated parking bays and car parks that can accomodate our size vehicle? If not, then this is unfair discrimination? They cannot make us pay the same road taxes etc as everyone else and then ban us from parking in their roads or in their car parks? If they can, then in all fairness we should either be entitled to some kind of road tax discount or provided with alternative parking areas and car parks?

Sue


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## Jezport

I would rather wild camp at a resort and spend my money with small independent shops rather than being stuck on a camp site where I don't use the facilities but pay a silly price for nothing.

Making parking difficult will not make me use a site, I just go to another resort.

We wild camp at a few East coast resorts and the local traders love us. We spend our money where we are welcomed.


----------



## HeatherChloe

Jezport said:


> I would rather wild camp at a resort


I think we should probably stop using words like "wild camp" which somehow seems like a rule is being broken, rather than simply sleeping in the vehicle overnight.

I stayed in my van overnight on Monday - my friend had a Boxing Day party, I had a few drinks, and then about midnight when the party was coming to an end, I went out to my van and slept in it. Just on the road, outside my friend's house. Was that really "wild camping"?? I don't think so. Would it really have made any difference to my friend's neighbours had I stayed in their spare room instead of sleeping in my van? Not one little bit.

When I go to visit my parents I sleep in my van on their front drive. When I visit my sister in law I sleep in my van on the road outside the house. Is that "wild camping"? I don't think so. Does anyone care? I doubt it.

And I have slept in my van in Covent Garden, where I live.

What's the big deal?


----------



## Jezport

To the councils any type of sleeping overnight in a vehicle is the same. I have had a threatening letter from East Yorkshire council informing me that I could be prosecuted for sleeping overnight in my van. I would like to know how they can prove that I slept?


----------



## Sonesta

Jezport said:


> To the councils any type of sleeping overnight in a vehicle is the same. I have had a threatening letter from East Yorkshire council informing me that I could be prosecuted for sleeping overnight in my van. I would like to know how they can prove that I slept?


Isn't it pathetic?

What if you felt tired and needed for safety reasons to take a nap as advised by the safe driving adverts? Are you to be penalised for sleeping in your motorhome under such conditions? It's a flipping joke and it's about time this ridiculous attitude towards stopping overnight in a motorhome in a public car park or on a public road was kicked into touch! By all means - penalise anyone who shows inconsiderate behaviour towards others or the environment but most of the rubbish dumping comes from ordinary car owners who dump their macdonalds cartons and dirty baby nappies etc wherever they see fit!

Of course they cannot prove you slept Jez - how could they? So personally, for what it's worth, I think they will be laughed out of court! Will be interesting to hear what the judge or magistrates say if the council do insist on taking this matter further - but my guess is, it will never get that far! :roll:

Sue


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## HeatherChloe

Jezport said:


> To the councils any type of sleeping overnight in a vehicle is the same. I have had a threatening letter from East Yorkshire council informing me that I could be prosecuted for sleeping overnight in my van. I would like to know how they can prove that I slept?


Under what rule?

If your van is legally parked, then it's legally parked. Cars, vans, motorbikes, lorries - they all have to go somewhere at night, and the most usual place is legally parked on the public road.

And are you not allowed to be in a stationary vehicle? Of course you are! How do you clean your van? How long have you got to fit a baby seat to the rear and belt up your kid before driving off? How long are kids allowed to sit in the back while you unload shopping?

So the question is: is there a rule against sleeping? Er no. And is there a rule against being in your car or van at the stroke of midnight? Er no.

What nonsense.

What did your letter actually say?


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## peedee

> By all means - penalise anyone who shows inconsiderate behaviour towards others or the environment


And herein lies the problem. I think it has already been pointed out that most councils/officials do not have the powers to do so. Even if they obtain a bye-law, it is far easier and cheaper for them to put up a height barrier than police it.

peedee


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## Sonesta

peedee said:


> And herein lies the problem. I think it has already been pointed out that most councils/officials do not have the powers to do so. Even if they obtain a bye-law, it is far easier and cheaper for them to put up a height barrier than police it.


But this is the whole point! This then means that all drivers of vehicles above a certain height are being penalised and prevented from enjoying the same right to park up in that location as other drivers are and there is no doubt about it, it's completely unfair! It's a motorhome and they are sold legally throughout the world - so why should a motorhome driver/owner be penalised just because it has cooking, living, bathroom and sleeping accommodation on board? It's also a motorised road legal vehicle used for transporting its occupants around and when you drive to a beauty spot or location with a suitably sized public car park or public parking area to accommodate your vehicle, you should be as entitled as any other legal road user to park your vehicle!

For example: You could not get away with banning ALL young male drivers from using a car park due to the careless and irresponsible actions of a few boy racers who have been seen driving recklessly around an empty car park, so surely, in all fairness, the powers that be should not be able to ban ALL motorhome owners from using a car park due to the inconsiderate actions of a few irresponsible people? Even without the back up of any proven statistics, I feel I can confidently say that the inconsiderate motorhome owners out there will definitely be in the minority, because my observations are that we motorhomers who enjoy the freedom to camp where we fancy are lovers of peace, harmony and beauty and the last thing we want is to spoil our surroundings or create any uneccesary negativity towards us or our lifestyle!

Sue


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## Jented

Hi Sue.
It is when a m/home is parked up in an area of outstanding natural beauty the trouble starts. Not everybody thinks m/momes-c/vans,are things of beauty,so these very people,who have moved away into the country/coast do not like the idea of their little piece of heaven on earth being invaded by,"Nomadic lifestyle"people,New age travellers?,would you like an encampment outside your house.
People give up buses every 10 mins,drop in centres,supermarkets on the edge of town,perhaps an hours drive to the nearest hospital,to live in a nice rural area,there are proper little farm sites at all points of the compass,that enable all "Nomads" to be in the area without hogging the best views etc.
Height barriers stop Gypsies getting onto common land/beach car parks,job sorted,stop lorries from staying for a night on the beach,(Use to stay on the beach at Shorham till they put giant rocks in the way). If you are that desperate to be in a place,use the sites,otherwise,other groups will go to the court of human rights,wanting to park and sleep in c/vans/lorries/estate cars and motor cycles with pop over tents.
Lets face it,the drawback of a m/home is the fact if you don,t tow a car,you are faced with problems parking a "Private goods vehicle",or a first class walk down to where the action is.If you do tow a car,the parking/access problem doubles.Of course,if you all moved to France... :wink: 
Gearjammer


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## spatz1

As if a silly little lock on a height barrier is going be more than a blink of an eye for a tribe of gypsies :lol: :lol: :lol: 

That lock is meant for you the motorhomer, and it works just fine despite the appalling nature of the way our lack of campsite places are dished out with a stupid rush for booking at the begining of the year.... that robs of the very freedom the motorhome offers  

And the joke is, there s no co ordination or will to change things


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## Jented

Hi.
"There is no will". There is also,"No money". Perhaps when you are out and about among the rural communities,ask yourself why are there no buses?. If the locals who pay rates every year cannot be provide with a bus to get into the County Towns,do you think they will put up with spaces reserved for "Nomads",who contribute nothing? to the local economy,Quote,"We load up with wine,beer,****,cheese in France"unquote,just in case some may appear"
If you want to help the local economy,use the local camp sites,who have jumped through hoops to comply with local planning regs and spent considerable sums of money.
There are of course,"Lorry Parks"......... But not in every town,if you want to be surrounded by nature,buy a house in the country,come to think about it,lorries that have not got an exemption cert. cannot cross into London before 07.00 hrs..... They are taxed and insured,so londoners don't want their peace being disturbed,have they got houses on the coast as well? :lol: :lol: 
Gearjammer


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## Sonesta

Jented said:


> Hi Sue.
> It is when a m/home is parked up in an area of outstanding natural beauty the trouble starts. Not everybody thinks m/momes-c/vans,are things of beauty,so these very people,who have moved away into the country/coast do not like the idea of their little piece of heaven on earth being invaded by,"Nomadic lifestyle"people,New age travellers?,would you like an encampment outside your house.
> People give up buses every 10 mins,drop in centres,supermarkets on the edge of town,perhaps an hours drive to the nearest hospital,to live in a nice rural area,there are proper little farm sites at all points of the compass,that enable all "Nomads" to be in the area without hogging the best views etc.
> Height barriers stop Gypsies getting onto common land/beach car parks,job sorted,stop lorries from staying for a night on the beach,(Use to stay on the beach at Shorham till they put giant rocks in the way). If you are that desperate to be in a place,use the sites,otherwise,other groups will go to the court of human rights,wanting to park and sleep in c/vans/lorries/estate cars and motor cycles with pop over tents.
> Lets face it,the drawback of a m/home is the fact if you don,t tow a car,you are faced with problems parking a "Private goods vehicle",or a first class walk down to where the action is.If you do tow a car,the parking/access problem doubles.Of course,if you all moved to France... :wink:
> Gearjammer


Mmm.... I think you are probably talking a bit extreme here jented and I am not suggesting for one moment that it is wise, considerate or fair to park a motorhome right outside someone's private home, especially if their property overlooks an area of outstanding beauty. I am sure there are not many motorhomers who would show such ignorance and most decent people would stop and think before they would park in such a location! I know there are always the exception to anything but by and large most motorhomers we have come across during our travels are considerate to others around them and I know we personally have never parked up anywhere like that, let alone set up camp in such a location for the night! We prefer to find secluded little spots away from prying eyes and most of our likeminded friends feel the same way too and the enjoyment for us is finding a secret location where you feel completely cut off from the rest of the world. What harm can there possibly be to anyone in an overnight stop somewhere like that? We and others like us are extrememly considerate to our environment and we leave no trace of our visit apart from maybe our tyre marks? To be honest if we see any litter lying around which has been left by previous visitors, we usually take that away with us too!

No I am referring to car parks, roadsides or any other parking area where visitors to a particular beauty spot or attraction are directed or permitted to park their vehicles. Usually these areas accomodate motorbikes and cars of all shapes, conditions and sizes and not all of those vehicles will be classed as items of great artistic beauty either! However, regardless of people's opinions of their vehicles they will be allowed to park there and all we motorhome owners ask is that we are given equal rights to park our vehicles there too. I think most of us would willingly pay extra if our vehicle took up to 2 parking bays - so the powers that be can't even use that excuse either! :?

Of course anyone who owns a motorhome realises that they are bound to come across parking restrictions due to vehicle size, weight and length etc and I think we all accept that - but to be penalised when there clearly is sufficient parking space available, simply because it is a motorhome, is neither fair nor acceptable in my opinion and I'm afraid I cannot see yours or anyone else's argument in this instance! We pay our road taxes and therefore it is a roadworthy and legal vehicle and if there is sufficient room to accomodate us safely, then we should be permitted to park there for the day just like anybody else!?

As for staying on campsites - well they are great for those times when you wish to park up and have electric hook up etc or if you plan to stay in an area for a few nights or more - but to me; campsites on the whole are quite boring, restrictive, unimaginative and uninteresting places to stay. The true beauty of owning a motorhome in my humble opinion is the freedom it allows you. Let's face it a motorhome is designed in such a way that you do not need the facilites of a campsite in order to function. So with it's onboard water and waste tanks, toilet, bathroom, sleeping and cooking facilties; the motorhomer can be completely independant and within reason come and go exactly as they please.... only having to stay on a campsite to do their laundry, recharge their batteries (if necessary) and top up with water and empty their toilet and waste tanks etc! With a modern motorhome, with all it's creature comforts on board; all you need to do is find a safe and secluded spot where you can simply park up for the night and your'e sorted! Now I know this might not be to everyone's tastes but it certainly is to ours and many like us and truthfully, I really cannot see any real problem with how we choose to use our motorhomes!

Sue


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## n4ked

Sonesta said:


> Jented said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Sue.
> It is when a m/home is parked up in an area of outstanding natural beauty the trouble starts. Not everybody thinks m/momes-c/vans,are things of beauty,so these very people,who have moved away into the country/coast do not like the idea of their little piece of heaven on earth being invaded by,"Nomadic lifestyle"people,New age travellers?,would you like an encampment outside your house.
> People give up buses every 10 mins,drop in centres,supermarkets on the edge of town,perhaps an hours drive to the nearest hospital,to live in a nice rural area,there are proper little farm sites at all points of the compass,that enable all "Nomads" to be in the area without hogging the best views etc.
> Height barriers stop Gypsies getting onto common land/beach car parks,job sorted,stop lorries from staying for a night on the beach,(Use to stay on the beach at Shorham till they put giant rocks in the way). If you are that desperate to be in a place,use the sites,otherwise,other groups will go to the court of human rights,wanting to park and sleep in c/vans/lorries/estate cars and motor cycles with pop over tents.
> Lets face it,the drawback of a m/home is the fact if you don,t tow a car,you are faced with problems parking a "Private goods vehicle",or a first class walk down to where the action is.If you do tow a car,the parking/access problem doubles.Of course,if you all moved to France... :wink:
> Gearjammer
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm.... I think you are probably talking a bit extreme here jented and I am not suggesting for one moment that it is wise, considerate or fair to park a motorhome right outside someone's private home, especially if their property overlooks an area of outstanding beauty. I am sure there are not many motorhomers who would show such ignorance and most decent people would stop and think before they would park in such a location! I know there are always the exception to anything but by and large most motorhomers we have come across during our travels are considerate to others around them and I know we personally have never parked up anywhere like that, let alone set up camp in such a location for the night! We prefer to find secluded little spots away from prying eyes and most of our likeminded friends feel the same way too and the enjoyment for us is finding a secret location where you feel completely cut off from the rest of the world. What harm can there possibly be to anyone in an overnight stop somewhere like that? We and others like us are extrememly considerate to our environment and we leave no trace of our visit apart from maybe our tyre marks? To be honest if we see any litter lying around which has been left by previous visitors, we usually take that away with us too!
> 
> No I am referring to car parks, roadsides or any other parking area where visitors to a particular beauty spot or attraction are directed or permitted to park their vehicles. Usually these areas accomodate motorbikes and cars of all shapes, conditions and sizes and not all of those vehicles will be classed as items of great artistic beauty either! However, regardless of people's opinions of their vehicles they will be allowed to park there and all we motorhome owners ask is that we are given equal rights to park our vehicles there too. I think most of us would willingly pay extra if our vehicle took up to 2 parking bays - so the powers that be can't even use that excuse either! :?
> 
> Of course anyone who owns a motorhome realises that they are bound to come across parking restrictions due to vehicle size, weight and length etc and I think we all accept that - but to be penalised when there clearly is sufficient parking space available, simply because it is a motorhome, is neither fair nor acceptable in my opinion and I'm afraid I cannot see yours or anyone else's argument in this instance! We pay our road taxes and therefore it is a roadworthy and legal vehicle and if there is sufficient room to accomodate us safely, then we should be permitted to park there for the day just like anybody else!?
> 
> As for staying on campsites - well they are great for those times when you wish to park up and have electric hook up etc or if you plan to stay in an area for a few nights or more - but to me; campsites on the whole are quite boring, restrictive, unimaginative and uninteresting places to stay. The true beauty of owning a motorhome in my humble opinion is the freedom it allows you. Let's face it a motorhome is designed in such a way that you do not need the facilites of a campsite in order to function. So with it's onboard water and waste tanks, toilet, bathroom, sleeping and cooking facilties; the motorhomer can be completely independant and within reason come and go exactly as they please.... only having to stay on a campsite to do their laundry, recharge their batteries (if necessary) and top up with water and empty their toilet and waste tanks etc! With a modern motorhome, with all it's creature comforts on board; all you need to do is find a safe and secluded spot where you can simply park up for the night and your'e sorted! Now I know this might not be to everyone's tastes but it certainly is to ours and many like us and truthfully, I really cannot see any real problem with how we choose to use our motorhomes!
> 
> Sue
Click to expand...

We are with you Sue on this one


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## Jented

Hi.
I am with Sue as well,all it seems caravanners have to do is fit a waste tank,not rocket science,and ask for parking spaces to be set aside for them as well. When m/homers can park up on an Aire/council car park and drive off in their toad,why cannot c/vanners park up for the night in the self same spaces.
Perhaps the reason it is easier in France,is one, because its HUGE,and secondly because there are fewer people.Having said that,rumour has it that even France gets full and some Nomads suggest that if you are not parked up where you want to be by 16.00 hrs,look for an alternative.
Whats good for one Nomadic lifestyle,is good for the other,so by all means press ahead,but do it even handedly. There is not a down on m/homes alone,how many new residential building areas especially in the country,(Peak district),have covenants banning the parking of boats,c/vans and m/homes. Local quarries unable to renew their extraction licences,local farmers stopped from building a house for their offspring/workers.
If you REALLY,wanted to change things,join up,get onto your local parish/county council,then in umpteen years time nothing has changed,you can then say you tried.Last but not least,"Old rusty m/homes" The thing going for Rusty,is the fact that rust is the same colour clean or dirty.
:wink: 
Gearjammer


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## peedee

Sonesta said:


> peedee said:
> 
> 
> 
> And herein lies the problem. I think it has already been pointed out that most councils/officials do not have the powers to do so. Even if they obtain a bye-law, it is far easier and cheaper for them to put up a height barrier than police it.
> 
> 
> 
> But this is the whole point! This then means that all drivers of vehicles above a certain height are being penalised and prevented from enjoying the same right to park up in that location as other drivers are and there is no doubt about it, it's completely unfair!Sue
Click to expand...

Agree it is unfair to many vehicles not all of which are motorhomes. Round here, even 4x4s and vans cannot enter some of the car parks.



Sonesta said:


> the powers that be should not be able to ban ALL motorhome owners from using a car park due to the inconsiderate actions of a few irresponsible people?
> Sue


but they do Sue and I believe it is for the reasons I stated above. In the case of Moggs Eye etc. overnighting was not allowed and this situation had clearly got out of hand and the LCC has reacted with what powers it had. Campsites are policed by the owners/Managers whose costs are covered by site fees. No matter how much the majority obey the country codes/rules the bad apples still have to be policed probably by bodies on the ground requiring a wage. The only possible way forward is to obtain byelaws to fine those breaking the rules and to introduce charges to cover the cost of effective policing. However there would still remain the problem of overcoming local objections.

peedee


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## Sonesta

At Huttoft car terrace we have witnessed boy racers driving erratically up and down the car park in an evening and groups of youngsters holding BBQ parties where they play loud music and leave behind burnt out disposable BBQ's and empty beer bottles/cans etc. Now does the council assume this is down to the aftermath of motorhome users or are they aware that a lot of local youths enjoy using the area in the evenings for holding beach parties etc? I presume this is the same with Moggs Eye and once again it is the motorhome owners who are penalised and held accountable for the chaos others cause! :roll:

I agree with peedee that to police this properly may involve a wage for someone but if the council were to use their noodle and charge motorhomes and the like to park in their car parks - then surely this scheme would make them money rather than cost them money? Maybe a height barrier like they have installed at the Canterbury Aire would be a good idea - which is a barrier where you have to purchase a ticket for from a pay machine and unless you purchase a ticket, you can neither get in or out of the car park!

I truly think the time has come now for local councils to put their thinking caps on and look for ways to welcome motorhomes to their towns, villages and cities and it seems rather foolhardy to just keep putting a blanket ban on such an increasingly popular means of holidaying in and around the uk! Motorhomes are here to stay - so they need to cash in on this!

Sue


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## peedee

Sonesta said:


> I truly think the time has come now for local councils to put their thinking caps on and look for ways to welcome motorhomes to their towns, villages and cities and it seems rather foolhardy to just keep putting a blanket ban on such an increasingly popular means of holidaying in and around the uk! Motorhomes are here to stay - so they need to cash in on this!
> 
> Sue


Couldn't agree more.

peedee


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## 747

I have just got back from 4 nights wilding in Northumberland. There are NO sites open this time of year.

We made no trouble for anyone, left no mess (actually picked up other peoples litter and dog crap) even though we have a van full of dogs. We spent some money at a time when the place was very quiet. There were a few day trippers because of the holidays but that is all. We would not attempt wilding here in the Summer. Off season is very different and we saw a few other m/homes doing the same.

Actually I think peedee should not have contacted LCC unless he had a positive attitude and ammunition which would help our (wilders) cause. There is much more mess caused by day trippers than by us.

We have worked hard for what we have but any mindless moron can visit the seaside on foot or in a car. Unless you are blind, you will have seen what I am talking about.

The problem at Moggs Eye has come about by the action of one determined (and nutty) old woman. I am no longer going to take part in these sort of debates because all this hot air and no action has been put to shame by an old woman with a bit of iron in her backbone.


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## peedee

747 said:


> Actually I think peedee should not have contacted LCC unless he had a positive attitude and ammunition which would help our (wilders) cause. There is much more mess caused by day trippers than by us.


I am neither for or against wild camping. Everybody to their own thing but why should I support those that disobey notices not to camp thereby ruining it for those of us who like to park up during the day?

At least I wrote to the LCC expressing my concern at the loss of these parking places. What did you do 747?

peedee


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## 747

I am busy doing something at the moment (not in Lincolnshire). I tend not to publicise anything I do regarding trying to improve the life of motorhomers.

I did not publicise my attempt with Gateshead Council. It was just as well because their answers made me believe that they are aliens from the planet Zog. :roll: Nothing whatsoever was achieved and now their plans for a Park and Ride have been scrapped in favour of selling the land to a private developer for housing.

If I ever succeed, you will not know I had anything to do with it. So slag me off as much as you want, I have got broad shoulders. :lol: 

As I said in my eaqrlier post, I am finished going round and round in these type of threads. As a group we will never get our act together and I get sick of moaners after a while. :wink:


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## barryd

I posted about campaigning for an aires type system in the current "dumping" thread this morning and suggested Motorhome facts as a large group should get involved.

I don't know how we could do this but surely there is something we can do together with such a large membership.


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## Jezport

In the current financial climate where retailers are going bust, why do councils still persecute a group of people who visit lots of places on a regular basis? Why don't they encourage us?


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## nicholsong

To answer Jezport's point:-

One may have to consider it from the point of the local council's 'Minister for Commerce'( or whatever fancy title they like to choose now) or the Chairman of the local Chamber of Commerce.

They both have Members in several categories - retail shops, hotels/B&B, restaurants etc. 

If they consider what the 'wild camping' MH fraternity spend, which is probably only food and drink in retail outlets, and maybe one meal out, before moving on, it is small compared with visitors who stay longer.

Geoff


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## Jezport

nicholsong said:


> To answer Jezport's point:-
> 
> One may have to consider it from the point of the local council's 'Minister for Commerce'( or whatever fancy title they like to choose now) or the Chairman of the local Chamber of Commerce.
> 
> They both have Members in several categories - retail shops, hotels/B&B, restaurants etc.
> 
> If they consider what the 'wild camping' MH fraternity spend, which is probably only food and drink in retail outlets, and maybe one meal out, before moving on, it is small compared with visitors who stay longer.
> 
> Geoff


Yes but they spend more than the old couple who sit in their car with a thermos and sarnies from home, but they dont get persecuted.


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## 747

nicholsong said:


> To answer Jezport's point:-
> 
> One may have to consider it from the point of the local council's 'Minister for Commerce'( or whatever fancy title they like to choose now) or the Chairman of the local Chamber of Commerce.
> 
> They both have Members in several categories - retail shops, hotels/B&B, restaurants etc.
> 
> If they consider what the 'wild camping' MH fraternity spend, which is probably only food and drink in retail outlets, and maybe one meal out, before moving on, it is small compared with visitors who stay longer.
> 
> Geoff


Hi Geoff,

You might be missing the point that they would stay a bit longer if they knew they were welcome. Then they would spend more.

When I have had an overnighter in Whitby or Scabbyborough, I do not drink in case I am moved on. With more security, that would be very different.


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## HeatherChloe

nicholsong said:


> If they consider what the 'wild camping' MH fraternity spend, which is probably only food and drink in retail outlets, and maybe one meal out, before moving on, it is small compared with visitors who stay longer.


Well when we went to Whitstable for the weekend, staying at the now defunct Marine Crescent we spent the following:

1) Friday night - 2 pints of beer and 2 packets of crisps at the Whitstable water front club bar (say £6)
2) Friday night - wine, smokes, cough sweets, newspapers at the corner shop (say £18 )
3) Saturday morning - about £20 of cheese and pickles from the Cheese Box shop
4) Saturday lunch time - East Harbour pub - 4 pints of beer & a hamburger (£10)
5) fish & chip shop (£3)
6) buying things in the Harbour market (£10) 
7) taxi from station (friend came from London for Saturday in the day) (£5)
8 ) Saturday night - dinner for 3 at the Crab & Winkle (which came to over £150)
9) Sunday morning - breakfast for 2 at the Sea View Cafe (£6)
10) Sunday lunch - 2 pints of beer at the Quayside pub (£4)

So in one weekend, I think we spent £237 and all in local establishments, no chain stores.

I suppose no one really would want to encourage that.


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## nicholsong

Heather

Firstly Happy New year.

From description of your w/e it sounds as though you were out and about so much it wouldn't matter where the MH was parked - unless you left Chloe to admire the view! :lol: 

Geoff


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## HeatherChloe

nicholsong said:


> From description of your w/e it sounds as though you were out and about so much it wouldn't matter where the MH was parked - unless you left Chloe to admire the view!


Well it does matter as I can no longer park on Marine Crescent.

I did leave Chloe in the van on Saturday evening when we went out to dinner to the Crab and Winkle, because they don't accept dogs. But otherwise, she stayed with me.

Ironically, I would not be able to park there, go out to dinner, and then return home to London afterwards - as the ban is from 6.30pm.

Even if I were staying in a campsite, if I wanted to drive to the beach and walk Chloe in the morning, I am banned until 9.30am.

It's very depressing.


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## Jented

Hi.
Maybe the Old? couple,were local or near local folk who pay rates in that county,maybe have a m/home,but come in the car to save fuel,or dash the thought,having lived in the area long enough realise there is not the spaces to park in the shopping area where they were going after a blow on the front. Just MAYBE,they are also with the quote,"Nutty" old lady,who wants to retain just one bit of beach side,without lines of m/homes and or codge and bodge look alikes marring their view.
I can understand people wanting to take their "Life support capsule" every where,cooking,eating,sleeping,toilet etc.but not at the expense of others enjoyment.Look at the row apon row of static c/vans all along the N.Welsh coast on the way to Holyhead,what an eyesore. As for staying longer in a certain place,the council and clubs have set up a network of sites for this very purpose.
This is not anti m/home,i did my best to like it,but first it was against my better judgement,and Jennifer had the bee in her bonnet,and two,i had a life time of sleeping in the area i worked,difficulty in finding a place near the action to park due to unit size and or restrictions,so went back c/vanning. So the Old? couple you observed may have been J and me,just having a run out from our site,with a flask and sarnie,paying into the local system,giving local people work,shopping,eating and drinking locally. So if you really want to help the local community think a couple of days on site, oh silly me,you will have to tow a car,carry a m/cycle,or pedal cycle,what else.... oh yes,walk.
Suddenly,the site is a no brainer,the m/home like a"Beached Whale" : 
There is more,but i may have upset some of you enough,to those who read this and find just a smidgeon of it strikes a cord,there is hope.
Ted.


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## Sonesta

Jented said:


> Hi.
> Maybe the Old? couple,were local or near local folk who pay rates in that county,maybe have a m/home,but come in the car to save fuel,or dash the thought,having lived in the area long enough realise there is not the spaces to park in the shopping area where they were going after a blow on the front. Just MAYBE,they are also with the quote,"Nutty" old lady,who wants to retain just one bit of beach side,without lines of m/homes and or codge and bodge look alikes marring their view.
> I can understand people wanting to take their "Life support capsule" every where,cooking,eating,sleeping,toilet etc.but not at the expense of others enjoyment.Look at the row apon row of static c/vans all along the N.Welsh coast on the way to Holyhead,what an eyesore. As for staying longer in a certain place,the council and clubs have set up a network of sites for this very purpose.
> This is not anti m/home,i did my best to like it,but first it was against my better judgement,and Jennifer had the bee in her bonnet,and two,i had a life time of sleeping in the area i worked,difficulty in finding a place near the action to park due to unit size and or restrictions,so went back c/vanning. So the Old? couple you observed may have been J and me,just having a run out from our site,with a flask and sarnie,paying into the local system,giving local people work,shopping,eating and drinking locally. So if you really want to help the local community think a couple of days on site, oh silly me,you will have to tow a car,carry a m/cycle,or pedal cycle,what else.... oh yes,walk.
> Suddenly,the site is a no brainer,the m/home like a"Beached Whale" :
> There is more,but i may have upset some of you enough,to those who read this and find just a smidgeon of it strikes a cord,there is hope. Ted.


Oh Ted - you do sound rather miffed about anyone using their motorhome to visit attractions or locations and lord help anyone who may decide to overnight in their van! 

From reading your post (if I have understood you properly) it would appear that you are of of the opinion that we motorhome owners should all leave our vehicles behind on a campsite and then either walk, cycle, tow a car, carry a motorbike or use public transport in order to get out and about in or for exploring the local area in etc? Now, If you don't mind me saying so.... your suggestions are a little bit extreme to say the least! 8O

Why on earth would anyone want to go to the expense of buying a motorised vehicle, which beside it being their holiday home, it has also been specifically designed to transport themselves and their passengers around in and then, after buying such a purpose built vehicle, then NOT use it for that specific purpose? Motorhomes are NOT cheap items and it would be ludicrous to buy one and then NOT use it for both transportation and accomodation! I mean - If we could only use them as you suggest, then nobody would or could justify the cost of ever owning or maintaining one! :roll:

Obviously, for people who feel like you clearly do towards motorhomes, then a caravan and car or a static caravan is the ideal choice and I have absolutely no issues at all with your personal preferences or choices. I respect the fact that everyone has their own take on such matters and I am just happy to see people enjoying whatever outfit they choose and as long as they show respect and consideration to others, then I am totally unphased and unaffected by their preferences. However, for those of us who prefer to drive and use a motorhome; your suggestions of how you believe we should be using our chosen vehicles is the most laughably absurd suggestion I have ever read! :?



Jented said:


> There is more,but i may have upset some of you enough,to those who read this and find just a smidgeon of it strikes a cord,there is hope. Ted.


I don't think your post will have struck any chords with anyone on here Ted and I am certain that nobody will be the least bit upset by it either and I think most people will just read your comments and feel slightly sorry that you harbour such an angry, negative and blanketed opinion of us all. 

Sue


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## Jented

Hi.
Do not try to shoot the messenger,its not me from a lofty position,that drew attention to two Old?( Ageist? :wink: ) people enjoying their rights to be on the sea front.
Read again,"This is NOT!!!,anti m/home".
Next look at all the other Don't do signs, "No dogs" on beaches near the shops action,so there are another group of people much larger in number than m/homers,that is just one.I have no trouble with that even though we have a dog,yet another poster was quoted on a post that they could not abide sites,so therefore it is reasonable to think, other people cannot abide m/homes.
Picture the scene Granny and Grandad go for a day out at Skeggy,park up super,out with the flask and sarnies,enjoy,hello,whats this,oh a m/home which parks next to them,well blow me down,another one comes and parks next to them on the other side,mmmmm. View is compromised but.... whats that noise/those fumes? G/dad,don't worry dear,they have their genny/heating and TV going,take deep breaths,it will soon go..... as if.
The beaches,beauty spots are for all,therefore if people of one nomadic lifestyle can park on the beach and overnight,so can others,self contained unit... "Stealth van",(By name and nature?),c/van,new age traveller,estate car with portalloo/gas bbq,etc.
"We would be willing to pay". Get real,so would thousands of others. Spare a thought for the people who pay around £2.000 per annum on just ground rent,for a seaside property they cannot use all year round. The thing that gets me posting is the way you think that if the local council welcome you to park at a silly rate,in a prime location,all their troubles will be over,if this is fact,why do they stop thousands of people living on site in their statics who allready pay rates?
Just one more observation,it was mentioned on another post,roughly quote,"If we could park say from 18.00hrs-10.hrs and pay £7,i think it was"
So the council has lost from 08.00-10.00hrs,say £3 at least,plus if it compromised another bay... In simple maths that is £4 for a nights parking,big deal.
When you do get organised,don't forget to let me know,i can bring hundreds,nay,thousands of c/vanners,lorries,white van men that will jump at the chance to park up on the sea front,if all thats needed is a bed/cooker/loo/fresh and waste water containers,and a bit of carpet,to swell your ranks.
You have bought into a m/home lifestyle choice that has restrictions,same as the rest of "Nomadic" holiday makers,this does not mean you have anymore perks than the rest,thats all for now.
Ted


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## 747

I have the best of both worlds with my rig.  

Although the Caravan Club always give me a pitch at the back of the site. :lol:


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## Sonesta

Sorry Ted ..... but you have well and truly lost me now! :? I honestly do not understand half of what you are actually complaining about and therefore I think this is where I should politely walk away from this thread! 

Enjoy your travels! 

Sue


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## Jented

Hi Sonesta.
It is not that hard to understand,if one section of Nomadic lifestyle people can park on the seafront and overnight/nights?,so can we all,the height barriers affect c/vans as well. Happy trails.
Ted.
PS. Nothing personal,there is a post by someone i hold in high regard on another post,quote"Bloody tugger",when you read the whole of it,it was said in jest.This man at a show at the NEC,steered me away from a purchase as it was wrong for my needs,cannot fault him.


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## Sonesta

Jented said:


> Hi Sonesta.
> It is not that hard to understand,if one section of Nomadic lifestyle people can park on the seafront and overnight/nights?,so can we all,the height barriers affect c/vans as well. Happy trails.
> Ted.
> PS. Nothing personal,there is a post by someone i hold in high regard on another post,quote"Bloody tugger",when you read the whole of it,it was said in jest.This man at a show at the NEC,steered me away from a purchase as it was wrong for my needs,cannot fault him.


I personally don't mind who parks on the seafront or anywhere else for that matter Ted and I believe you and others are as entitled to enjoy that privilege as much as the next person is and vice versa. Obviously a car park rules & regulations have to be adhered to by ALL users and providing they are, then I do not see why anyone should be penalised simply because their vehicle happens to be a motorhome!

Unlike a caravan, a motorhome is a motorised vehicle with its own independent engine and surely you must see that driving about in a motorhome is an entirely different kettle of fish to a car towing a 
caravan behind it? A caravan NEEDS a car to transport both it and its passengers whereas a motorhome/campervan is a motorised vehicle in its own right! Whether you approve of motorhomes being parked in certain locations or not is irrelevant really Ted and as a road legal vehicle; which has to hold a valid MOT certificate and be road taxed etc., they have as much right to be driven around on our roads and parked up in legal parking spots as your car or any other road legal motorised vehicle has!

As for overnighting in a motorhome! Well many of us do enjoy the freedom of overnight stopovers in our vehicles from time to time and I guess many of us will continue to do so - but rather than us all being the problematic nuisances that you are attempting to paint a picture of us all as being, I think in reality; the vast majority of us who enjoy this freedom; are respectable and mature citizens with a great deal of respect for peace, nature, the environment and others around us and the last thing most of us want is to spoil our surroundings or attract needless confrontation and discord with the authorities.

Ted - do you really believe that we mature adults, who have worked hard all of our lives and have reached a time where we have the leisure time and financial means to finally purchase a motorhome in order to enjoy adventure and travels in, are then going to use said motorhome to go around causing mayhem in seaside resorts and popular beauty spots? I don't think so Ted and most of us who have made the decision to enjoy our maturing years so pleasurably have high morals re responsible behaviour etc! Of course there are ALWAYS exceptions to any scenario and there will always be those ignorant people who take advantage of any situation but that goes for every walk of life I'm ashamed to say and sadly, this will always continue to be the case in life! In all honesty, I think there are far more car users than motorhome users who discard litter, cause havoc with noisy radios/cd players playing out at inconsiderate volume levels, revving engines, boy racers and basically ignorant car users who tend to make a total nuisance of themselves on our roads and in public car parks etc. Obviously the council and powers that be do not penalise every car user for the actions of those who do cause problems (quite rightly so) so therefore, in all fairness - why should a motorhome user be singled out like they are? Is this really fair in your opinion Ted?

I strongly believe that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush and whenever I observe someone doing this, I feel compelled to speak out! However, we could go on debating this subject back and forth for ever more - but I doubt if either of us will change our opinions Ted - so maybe its time to put this to bed now and simply agree to disagree?

I've enjoyed our little debate though, even if some of what you have written has left me somewhat confused but at least we've both aired our opinions and hopefully we have both learnt something from it?

Sue


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## Jented

Hi Sue.
The only point i am trying to point out is the continuing harping on about,"Missing out on the money we spend". 
C/vans-"Touring Caravans",there's a clue,yes you have to have a car to pull one,but you can leave a c/van and get into all sorts of hideaway places,where you cannot with a reasonable sized M/home. So Touring,one night stopovers enroute?why not.
Last but not least,it may just help your cause,if you had other partners in a shared joy of "Touring",on your side,rather than put up barriers,the "Non motorised" part of the outfit would be a static c/van were it not for the car,that is why they are called Touring Caravans.The m/home is static while you sleep in it surely?
Ted.
PS. Beware! (On a lighter note). I am working on a "High Speed motor mover",so come the checks at a Ministry MOT/Compliance station,you may just see me passing you on the road.


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## HeatherChloe

Jented said:


> Hi Sue.
> The only point i am trying to point out is the continuing harping on about,"Missing out on the money we spend".
> C/vans-"Touring Caravans",there's a clue,yes you have to have a car to pull one,but you can leave a c/van and get into all sorts of hideaway places,where you cannot with a reasonable sized M/home. So Touring,one night stopovers enroute?why not.
> Last but not least,it may just help your cause,if you had other partners in a shared joy of "Touring",on your side,rather than put up barriers,the "Non motorised" part of the outfit would be a static c/van were it not for the car,that is why they are called Touring Caravans.The m/home is static while you sleep in it surely?
> Ted.
> PS. Beware! (On a lighter note). I am working on a "High Speed motor mover",so come the checks at a Ministry MOT/Compliance station,you may just see me passing you on the road.


Are you a motorhomer? What are you doing on this website?

The point of this thread was that people are a bit sad that a perfectly ordinary carpark near a beach has had height barriers put up so that they cannot use it.

It's quite reasonable for motorhomers to be unhappy about this.

I don't see why this has to descend into some kind of argument of a not very nice tone between car + caravan v motorhome.

Yes, certainly, if we had car + caravan, we could leave the caravan somewhere and use the car to limbo below the height barrier. But this is a motorhomers website - hinted at by the title "motorhome facts".

Height barriers are everywhere, not just at places where motorhomers might want to stay the night (eg seaside resorts). Your reference to a couple not wanting the view ruined from their car by a motorhome parked next door hardly applies to the many park and rides which are on the edges of busy A roads which have height barriers.

I only have one vehicle - a motorhome - and when out of London and staying with friends, leaving my vehicle parked on their drive, if I want to drive to a park and ride in order to go into the nearby city to do a bit of shopping and have lunch I can't, just because my vehicle is too high. It makes it impossible to visit cities.

I hardly want to spend the night at a park and ride and I'm hardly going to spoil anyone's view as I don't believe people sit in their cars in park and rides and enjoy their sandwiches. But the point is that I think it's perfectly reasonable that on a motorhomers website we are allowed to say "we think that's not fair" without being subject to someone complaining that we are "harping on".


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## Jented

Hi.
H.C. I am on this web site,because i to worked very hard and bought a c/van in 73. As a happy married couple we try to make sure that it stays that way,so in 09. i think it was,we bought a new Timberland Endeavour PVC,high spec,we did not keep it a year,it was a disaster,read about some of the issues in the review,by mistake i put it in coach built i think,it was on a renault Master base,150,that bit was superb. This was changed for a new 2010 Autosleeper Broadway,could not fault it anywhere.Due to Jennifers health,plus the fact that living,eating and sleeping in the same space was something i had done all my life,(wild camping?,sometimes beyond your wildest dreams!),it was decided we went back to a c/van,a 2011 A/sleeper Kensington,thinking it would be as good as the Broadway.... Wrong. We are now touring in a 2012 C/van from another stable.
I have paid my subscriptions the same as you,have contributed whenever i could help,supplied some "Free stopover sites",recommended Aires in France,Spain and Portugal,invited a few members to stay over at our place in Portugal,plus had a few Thanks returned. You may be surprised to know that i am not the only c/vanner on this site,plus a couple of members with no m/home at all,are you still reading this?.
Next the them and us,if you can be bothered to look up a post of mine,"Is this cricket",a few lines from the A/sleepers owners club you can read there,also a member who started his first?post with,"I hate tuggers". So you will appreciate my concern,that in making sure some m/homers are OK,they are forgetting people who share the same love of getting away from it all,it would be interesting to see the prohibition notice re-sleeping on the front,because if it says,"No sleeping in vehicles",being as pointed out by Sonesta,the c/van has no engine,needs no MOT,who would have thought that,does it still qualify as a vehicle?. 
 
Please do not think that as i don't reply to your posts i have lost interest,but we are having to revaluate our plans for this year,due to a slight hiccup on the health front.

So YES!!,i am a fully paid up member.Yes,when i joined i did have a purpose built unit,and YES,had you cared to look at the avtar bit,you would have seen that where it says M/Home, i USE to have,Autosleeper Kensington Caravan.
Well its good night from me,and Woof from Sassy.
Call me what you like,as long as its not late for dinner.


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## Sonesta

Hi Ted,

Of course you have every right to be a member of this forum; regardless as to whether you are a motorhome owner or not and I am sure HeatherChloe did not mean it to come across the way you have obviously taken it. I think maybe Heather was just querying why you chose to be a member of a motorhome related forum when you obviously do not have any personal interest in them but I'm sure now that you have explained your reasons; she will no doubt understand why you enjoy posting on Motorhome Facts!

Personally speaking; whatever outfit a person chooses to have is immaterial in my eyes and I have never, ever understood the caravan v motorhome mentality anyway and I often find myself puzzling over why some folk get quite heated about what others own or prefer! Everyone has differing needs and lifestyles so we all make purchases that meet our interests and requirements best! Surely therefore - as long as a person is happy with their choice then that's all that matters really and I just don't get why there often appears to be a kind of them and us attitude between the 2 factors! Its all quite bizarre if you ask me and why folk get quite so heated about it is beyond me! 

It's the same with wildcamping I suppose Ted? Some folk enjoy the freedom that wildcamping allows them - whereas others prefer the confines and security of a campsite or a mixture of the two and in all fairness; who has the right to tell anyone else what or how they should be living? It's an individuals choice and so, unless they are breaking the law, then in all honesty, it really is nobody else's business! 

As you can probably gather from reading my postings; I am a live and let live type of person and providing nobody tries to tell me how to live and conduct my life (at 56 years of age I like to think I can work that one out for myself) then I am happy to accept most people's choices and lifestyles but if someone attempts to dictate to me how THEY believe I should behave or be living my life; then I'm afraid I won't take that lying down and they may see a side of my character that isn't quite as tolerant! :wink:

Sue


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## Jented

Hi.
Thank you for your reply Sonesta,but HC is well able?,to look after herself.Lets see,(Again) parts of her posts.
Quote,Are you a member?,Have you got a m/home?.Words to the effect "This is a motorhomers website,"Motorhome Facts, hint".
Perhaps i should bring to the Caravan Club and Caravan a Camping Clubs attention the fact that some members have m/homes and tents. But that would be very childish of me,and i could be accused of chucking the teddies out of the pram. A possible excuse put forward by a poster as to why the ASOC had blocked A/sleeper c/van owners from joining was,"The club did not envisage the company making caravans", if you read the couple of articles written in the ASOC Members Mags,(Of which i am a member,the A/sleeper company enrols you when you buy,yes even a c/van,ooops),it could be misread,that children could perhaps be a bit of a problem,but this is off set by the fact that,Quote, The price of the units may count out families?.
I have seen it mentioned on,"Motorhome Facts Forum",that at least one Aire or Stellplatz? accomodates caravans,so,in the push to set up Aires type places in the British Isles,consider swelling your pressure group numbers by getting on board c/vanners. Some caravanners would love to stop over on a long journey at a low cost basic parking sites as well,the fact that a caravan has no engine or MOT,should not come into the debate.As a "Touring" unit,i see no difference between a Car and c/van,a M/home towing a car or running solo,all have to pass the CCI? compliance tests as fit for habitation,and both the cars used in our lifestyle,have to have an MOT,when due.  .
Well,thats me off with the growler on last,"Walkies",i am sure you will have more to say later on,goodnight.
Ted.
PS. I have to admit,i have never been on a Caravan Forum,so i will make it the first thing to do tomorrow,it will be interesting to see if there is the same type of,"Good Natured?" sniping going on in their posts.


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## Sonesta

Jented said:


> Hi.
> Thank you for your reply Sonesta,but HC is well able?,to look after herself.Lets see,(Again) parts of her posts.
> Quote,Are you a member?,Have you got a m/home?.Words to the effect "This is a motorhomers website,"Motorhome Facts, hint".
> Perhaps i should bring to the Caravan Club and Caravan a Camping Clubs attention the fact that some members have m/homes and tents. But that would be very childish of me,and i could be accused of chucking the teddies out of the pram. A possible excuse put forward by a poster as to why the ASOC had blocked A/sleeper c/van owners from joining was,"The club did not envisage the company making caravans", if you read the couple of articles written in the ASOC Members Mags,(Of which i am a member,the A/sleeper company enrols you when you buy,yes even a c/van,ooops),it could be misread,that children could perhaps be a bit of a problem,but this is off set by the fact that,Quote, The price of the units may count out families?.
> I have seen it mentioned on,"Motorhome Facts Forum",that at least one Aire or Stellplatz? accomodates caravans,so,in the push to set up Aires type places in the British Isles,consider swelling your pressure group numbers by getting on board c/vanners. Some caravanners would love to stop over on a long journey at a low cost basic parking sites as well,the fact that a caravan has no engine or MOT,should not come into the debate.As a "Touring" unit,i see no difference between a Car and c/van,a M/home towing a car or running solo,all have to pass the CCI? compliance tests as fit for habitation,and both the cars used in our lifestyle,have to have an MOT,when due.  .
> 
> Well,thats me off with the growler on last,"Walkies",i am sure you will have more to say later on,goodnight.
> Ted.
> PS. I have to admit,i have never been on a Caravan Forum,so i will make it the first thing to do tomorrow,it will be interesting to see if there is the same type of,"Good Natured?" sniping going on in their posts.


I am sure Heather can vouch for herself Ted but surely I am permitted to give my opinion re the points I thought she was attempting to raise in her posts, or is that something you believe only you yourself should have the freedom to be able to do?

The point I raised in an earlier post; re a motorhome being equipped with an independent engine; was merely put forward to highlight the fact that a motorhome; besides being a mobile holiday home; is also a road legal, purpose built, passenger carrying vehicle which has to be road taxed, MOT tested and insured etc and therefore; unless we are causing a traffic hazard or parked illegally; we should be able to park up in public car parks and on public roads just like any other road legal vehicle! This was by no means me saying a motorhome is any more important than a caravan or anything like that - but was simply my way of drawing attention to the fact that we motorhome owners have to pay the same costs to be on the road as everybody else, so surely we should enjoy the same privileges? ! Basically Ted, it certainly wasn't a comparison pop at caravans but merely my way of defending a motorhomers rights!

However, It would appear I am wasting my time attempting to smooth the waters in this thread as you clearly have a lot of axes to grind re many of the matters raised within this topic and sadly, after reading the other posts in this thread, it would seem that you are the only person who has any real issues with caravans versus motorhomes.

I hope you find an answer to all your concerns and obstacles soon and I hope you can eventually begin to enjoy the same kind of touring freedom in your caravan that most of us motorhomers do.

All the best. 

Sue


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## Jented

Hi Sonesta,
In my posts,i have happened to mention a few snipes at c/vans,some which i have high lighted,did you notice that?,however,even i don't love everybody so that makes me normal. What saddened me was a post about getting stuck,one poster said,"Don't worry about getting stuck,some tugger will come to your aid to show off his shiny new 4x4",words to that effect.Now i had to have a 4x4,due to where i lived and the job i did,so often when seeing ANY outfit digging in,would nip across and offer help before the only thing to rescue it would be a JCB,so forgive me if i don't come to the rescue next time someone is stuck unless asked.
Here is the 64,000$ question,if and when Aire type stopovers are introduced into areas of outstanding and not so outstanding natural beauty,can i rely on your good self and "Some?" of my fellow Nomadic lifestyle devotees to ensure that all types of Touring mobile units may stop over?.
To continue in a light hearted manner,perhaps the Min. of transport and Min. of area regeneration is missing a trick here. Regeneration of huge swathes of the country could be brought back to life,with C/van-M/home only lanes on major trunk roads/m-ways,Aires in deprived areas,etc. think about that.
There is more,but i have to go to an aversion therapy session,some people are afraid of heights,me,i am afraid of..Widthes. Back soon.
Ted.


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## Penquin

OK this is me putting my oar in; this forum is designed for discussion, not for trying to tear other people apart, that is NOT part of the acceptable practice for MHF. 

It is clear that there are some divergent views are being expressed most forcefully, but please do not let personal circumstances or opinions form the basis for confrontation. 

MHF is primarily aimed at motorhomers BUT there is no distinction, and never will be as far as I am concerned, between those that currently own a MH and those that don't. 8O

Many of us started many years ago with other forms of enjoying the outdoor experience - camping, caravans and so on, some even started using canal boats or still do! Just because of these differences does not detract from the value of their opinion. 

Please bear that in mind, many people love wildcamping and for them it may be the _raison d'etre_ for owning a MH, others prefer to use sites with full facilities and neither group may be able to understand the desires or experiences of the other. :?

But that does not make either group unwelcome on here, all members views are of equal importance and equal value. Please try to remember that and do not allow any discussion to descend below an acceptable level. 

Dave
(With my Moderator hat in place)


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## nicholsong

Dave

Well said! And I think that at this point it needed saying.

I just skimmed through the last few pages and saw the same contributors (to what?) going round in circles - and we know where that leads!

Geoff


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## Sonesta

nicholsong said:


> I just skimmed through the last few pages and saw the same contributors (to what?) going round in circles - and we know where that leads!
> 
> Geoff


Now that explains why I'm feeling somewhat dizzy! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sue


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## Jented

Hi.
I like Dizzy.....Blonds? :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Ted.


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## HeatherChloe

Jented said:


> Hi.
> Thank you for your reply Sonesta,but HC is well able?,to look after herself.Lets see,(Again) parts of her posts.
> Quote,Are you a member?,Have you got a m/home?.Words to the effect "This is a motorhomers website,"Motorhome Facts, hint".


I think people should be able to comment on a post about the sadness of height barriers preventing them from parking, even just for an hour, without someone constantly going on about how motorhomers should use aires, should use sites, should not throw rubbish, how they run their "gennys" and annoy people, park either side of cars, ruining views and so on, and then griping about the lack of facilities for caravans compared to motorhomes.

I just noted that Jented's posts, particularly towards Sonesta's, seemed to have an aggressive tone, be very argumentative, and very anti-motorhome. Whereas Sonesta appeared to be very civilised, easy to understand and read, very calm, and very appropriate.

Of course Motorhome Facts can be used by non Motorhomers, but I would imagine that if all threads started to have aggressive responses from non motorhomers about the trouble that motorhomers bring, it wouldn't be a very easy place to have a conversation amongst people with a common interest. I don't really understand why someone who appears to be so anti-motorhoming would want to join in these discussions, and to do it in such an aggressive way.

But whatever.....


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## Jented

Hi Heatherchloe.
After Penquins post,i had put this all behind me,even the rude,"Questions" post, by yourself,the answers were all checkable on the Forum,as i kept it up to date.
However,as you have seen fit to stir it all up again,perhaps you could answer the 64.000$ question i posed ?. A sign of a good friends/buddies/mates,etc. is they stick together come hell or high water,so,it does not surprise me how some people watch each others backs,fair play to you.
Edward.


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## Penquin

I have no desire to have to repeat my warning message; please do not let this topic degenerate as such a state is of no interest to other than those directly involved.

That is not the role of MHF or this thread which is to discuss wild camping at one specific location - Moggs Eye.

This is a final reminder that no such further degradation will be tolerated and action will be taken by the Moderators.

If you wish to remind yourself what sort of actions are available to maintain the acceptable standard please refer to the site rules;

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forums-rules.html

and the section "How the rules are enforced" in particular.

No further warnings will be issued, challenging such decisions is also covered witin the rules.

"Live and let live" should be kept uppermost in the thoughts of all.

Dave
on behalf of the Moderating team


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## Briarose

Hi folks your chance to comment on this topic.
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/Motorhome-owners-enjoy-facility/story-15232057-detail/story.html


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## Oscarmax

So what about the poor disabled motorhome user rights ?


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## Briarose

Oscarmax said:


> So what about the poor disabled motorhome user rights ?


True especially for those that their MH is their only way of transport.


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## wooly

Thanks Briarose, So I can see that will be an end to us taking the dog for a run on the beach once they get their new bird observatory. I think really it is so people will be able to sit and marvel at the wind turbines out at sea, one way or another they are determined to destroy this buitiful bit of peaceful coastline. We often drive 55miles just to come for an hour walking from Sandilands to Huttoft and back again, bliss. Michael


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## Briarose

I don't even think that many councils even think about the fact that they are turning folk away from tourist areas........their only concern is that no one gets a 'free' night somewhere.


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## n4ked

wooly said:


> Thanks Briarose, So I can see that will be an end to us taking the dog for a run on the beach once they get their new bird observatory. I think really it is so people will be able to sit and marvel at the wind turbines out at sea, one way or another they are determined to destroy this buitiful bit of peaceful coastline. We often drive 55miles just to come for an hour walking from Sandilands to Huttoft and back again, bliss. Michael


I just found this in the news.....

Wind turbines are increasingly recognized as a lethal hazard for birds, scientists now think they're also harmful to marine life. From half a mile away, the whooshing turbines emit an acceptable noise level of around 50 decibels; but if some of the Ecopower turbines are placed as close as 10 meters from the shoreline, they say, levels for ocean life could approach if not exceed a more harmful 100 decibels.
WIND TURBINES DO NOT PROVIDE RENEWABLE ENERGY!

Not one coal or gas plant the world over has been decommissioned because of WTs. FACT....... Because wind blows intermittently, electric utilities must either keep their conventional plants running all the time so the lights don't go dark, or continually ramp up and down (called "cycling"). But coal-fired and gas-fired generators are designed to run continuously, and if they don't, fuel consumption and emissions generally increase. They don't reduce CO2.


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## n4ked

wooly said:


> Thanks Briarose, So I can see that will be an end to us taking the dog for a run on the beach once they get their new bird observatory. I think really it is so people will be able to sit and marvel at the wind turbines out at sea, one way or another they are determined to destroy this buitiful bit of peaceful coastline. We often drive 55miles just to come for an hour walking from Sandilands to Huttoft and back again, bliss. Michael


I wonder how that will affect us taking our cat on the beach, i have never yet seen a sign banning cats


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