# Passengers and Seatbelts



## mono

Can anyone let me know if there is a requirement for all occupants of a MH to wear a seat belt. Our two sons want to join us for a week in the summer, but there are only belts in the front seats. Not sure exactly where we will be, France, Italy or Spain.


----------



## CaGreg

Whatever about legal requirements, if you wish your children to remain at the very least uninjured, or at the worst, alive, please do not consider bringing them in any vehicle without proper seatbelts. There is nothing special about a motorhome that will keep them alive in a collision.

Ca


----------



## 101405

*seat belts*

All passengers carried in a vehicle must wear seatbelts, A motorhome is one of the worst vehicles to have an accident In , you can not carry passengers in that motorhome,


----------



## Mikemoss

Hi Mono, and welcome (see it's your first post). As I understand the law, if there are seat belts fitted you have to wear them. If there's no belt, there's no law against sitting in that seat - with the provisos that CaGreg just mentioned of course. I'd only add that sideways facing seats would be the most dangerous.

Have to confess to carrying adults in our rear-facing (non seatbelt) seats on occasion. It's a case of knowing the risks and either taking them, or not.


----------



## pippin

Lot of info/discussion here:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=20672

Rather depends on the age of your MH.


----------



## 101405

*seatbelts*

NO ,It depends if you value those persons lives.


----------



## timbop37

Hi Mono, and welcome.

There has been plenty of discussion and debate on MHF relating to this issue. 

You don't state where you are from. Towtal of Stoke-on-Trent fit lap belts for about £75 each (we had 2 adjacent lap belts fitted at £125 for both).

the previous posters are right. It is up to the individual but the damage sustained from being thrown around the back of a motorhome can be significant. I think there are some instances on youtube. It is not worth taking the risk.

Regards

Tim


----------



## hilldweller

timbop37 said:


> It is up to the individual but the damage sustained from being thrown around the back of a motorhome can be significant.


So could being strapped in when the cooker or the fridge breaks loose and crushes you.

There is a lot of luck involved. Good and bad.

An example at my old gliding club, due to instructor error a glider with two people struck the side of a hill. This ripped off one wing. So the other wing did what a wing is supposed to do, generated lift, this immediately inverted the plane.

Now they are upside down, travelling at 50 mph as the plastic canopy hits the ground. The canopy shatters instantly.

The trainee pilot in the front is now head and shoulders outside the protection of the fuselage, upside down and inches from the rocks.

Fate decided it was not his day to die. His four point harness detached at the top and he as flung forwards below the level of the fuselage.

Had the harness held his head would have been ripped off.

They both walked away from the wreckage and the front seat pilot became a wise instructor.


----------



## gaspode

The text below seems to summarise the current legal situation. Acknowledgment to UKMotorhomes.net FAQs for the source material:

 Seatbelts and the law
(last updated April 2008)

We asked the Department for Transport for their interpretation on the law as it applies to seatbelts fitted in motorhomes, this article gives the essence of the information that they gave us:

The information below relates to the fitting of seatbelts and the wearing of seatbelts by adults. There is specific legislation, introduced in 2006, concerning the carrying of children in vehicles. Rather than trying to present all the somewhat complicated regulations here, please see: www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/childcarseats/childcarseats.htm

For vehicles built up to Oxtober 2007 there was no legal requirement to have seat belts fitted to side-facing seats or seats that make up the accommodation area in motor caravans.
Regulation 46 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, states motor caravans first used on or after 1st April 1982 but before 1 October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and specified passenger seat (if any); and for motor caravans first used on or after 1st October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and any forward-facing front seat.
You can download a copy of the SI at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20011043.htm.
However, this did not preclude manufacturers fitting seat belts to forward facing or rearward facing seats within the accommodation area if they wished to do so.
Where seat belts are fitted they must be worn.

Seats in the rear of a campervan/motorhome did not, prior to October 2007, require seatbelts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it is not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded. It is not something we would recommend, however.

Although current seat belt wearing regulations do not currently prohibit carrying more passengers in vehicles than there are seat belts available, the police may prosecute drivers for carrying passengers in a manner that may injure someone.
We would advise that no-one should be carried in any unbelted seat in the rear of a motorhome.

An EU Directive (2005/40/EC) on the installation of seat belts required that from 20 October 2007 new vehicles have to have seat belts fitted on all seats except those seats intended solely for use when the vehicle is stationary.

Where seat belts are fitted, from May 2009, the seat belt wearing Directive will prevent more passengers being carried than there are seat belts in the rear of vehicles. This will mean that from May 2009, in any vehicle of whatever age, where seat belts are fitted in the rear, more passengers may not be carried in the rear than there are seat belts available.

The critical point for owners of older motorhomes is that it will not become illegal to carry passengers in the rear, provided that no seatbelts are fitted to any seats behind the driver and front passenger seats. Owners of any motorhome that has belts fitted to any seat in the rear will need to be aware that, from May 2009, it will be illegal to carry passengers in any unbelted seats.

The advisability of carrying unrestrained passengers is another matter, to quote the DfT spokesman:

'... the police can already act where people in the rear of any vehicle are considered to be carried in a dangerous manner because they are unrestrained. [Owners] should beware of unbelted passengers. In a crash, they can injure others in the vehicle ...'.

We are indebted to Rohan Pohl and Tom Norman from the Department for Transport for their time and patience in answering all our questions on this subject.


----------



## timbop37

hilldweller said:


> So could being strapped in when the cooker or the fridge breaks loose and crushes you.


Of course, you are in the lap of the Gods (if you believe that sort of thing - that's for another post :lol: ).

Tim


----------



## mono

Thanks for all the replies. My first posting on MHF has certainly made the £10 registration fee money well spent. I am currently touring Spain and will search out a garage to have a couple of belts fitted to be on the safe side. 
p.s. I found the downloads for LPG sites in Spain invaluable for topping up my Gaslow tanks. What a clever bunch of people, even provided link to put the info onto my Tom Tom


----------



## bigbazza

*Seat belts*

Welcome Mono, this is a great forum.

I think that although this is a serious subject there is a nice way to tell someone your suggestions.
I'm knew too and have noticed that some replies to questions are probably correct but they sound like it's the headmaster telling you.
On the other hand I've come into contact with some really kind and helpful people.
Bazza


----------



## timbop37

Hi Mono

If you do source anyone for the lap-belts, bear in mind that a subframe is required. The belts can't just be secured anywhere. This is a simple job for those in the know but that was why I paid £125 for 2.

Regards

Tim


----------



## CaGreg

*Re: Seat belts*



bigbazza said:


> Welcome Mono, this is a great forum.
> 
> I think that although this is a serious subject there is a nice way to tell someone your suggestions.
> I'm knew too and have noticed that some replies to questions are probably correct but they sound like it's the headmaster telling you.
> On the other hand I've come into contact with some really kind and helpful people.
> Bazza


If we sound headmasterly/mistresserly it is only because sometimes there is only one way to tell it like it is, especially when it is an unequivocal situation, life and death. 
If somebody had been headmasterly enough to tell my child to put on her seatbelt one night, she might now be alive and aged 23.
But for the rest of the fun stuff, I will be kind and gentle.

Ca


----------



## bigbazza

Not a lot I can say to you except I'm so sorry for you.
I guess there are lots of tragic stories over a large communty like this and I'm sorry if I have upset you.

bazza


----------



## timbop37

*Re: Seat belts*



CaGreg said:


> If somebody had been headmasterly enough to tell my child to put on her seatbelt one night, she might now be alive and aged 23


Sorry to hear that. There speaks the voice of experience

Tim


----------



## CaGreg

You haven't upset me and thank you for replying with such kind words.

Ca


----------



## Pusser

Seems to me there will be a demand for a child rack that fits on the back of the vehicle. I must forward this idea to Flamma. 8)


----------



## 101405

*seat belts*

brings it home I think? 
Seems there's no Answer to not wearing a seat belt. here in spain the amount of people being killed on the roads by not wearing seat belts or helmets is criminal, they even carry the helmet when riding a moto /bike . and they even had a protest about crash barriers being Installed as it Injured them when they crashed their bikes , dumb or what,, and its mostly young people who are being killed,


----------



## flyer

*Passenger seating difficulties with sideways facing seats*

We have a autosleeper executive, on a Boxer, with sideways facing rear seats. Our grandchild is coming to the age when we would like to take her away in the van, but there is no-way I would put my grandchild in the back unbelted or belted on sideways seats (or my wife for that matter). What about replacing the single passenger seat supplied by Autosleeper with a dual passenger seat with three point belts, which presumably the original commercial van version has? Any ideas out there who could do the replacement? Any legal implications?


----------

