# Self Building a Bungalow.



## patp

Just wondered if we had any self builders on here?

We have been lucky enough to secure planning permission to build a bungalow on our land. We are very excited!

A little background is that we sold some land to a developer but saved enough, next to us, in case we wanted to build to sell in the future. Much to our surprise the planners were not happy with putting one next to us and suggested it would be better behind our cottage. Well knock me down with a feather! For years they had refused any attempts for people to "backfill" houses in our village. Now they are telling us to put one there and they will recommend it for approval. And it got approved!

Chris and I are hoping to project manage it ourselves. He is a time served plumber and can turn his hands to most things. Of course these things must be within his physical capabilities now. 
We have renovated three old properties and he and our daughter built a large extension to her bungalow.

The plans have been returned to the architect for some tweaking so that the main living rooms face South and West (why do architects fail to do this?).

I am not a fan of en suite bathrooms so have asked for that to be removed from the original plan. What do others think? The bathroom will be next door to the master bedroom just not in it. 

It will be a three bedroom bungalow. I have asked for a dining room rather than any kitchen/diner or lounge/diner type layout.

There should also be a large boot/mud room with a wash down facility for the ever muddy Spaniel!


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## erneboy

Snap. Good luck with it Pat. We've just bought sites and are about to do the same in Spain. Just deciding whether we'll have a traditional build, which I don't really understand in Spain, or a wooden building. There are some lovely wooden buildings around so that may be the thing for us. It will be fun for all of us I hope.


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## raynipper

Sounds great Pat to get the house just as you would like. Obviously we all have different requirements but several things would be on our list.
South facing rear with a large conservatory to heat the house.
Two bathrooms at least and maybe an extra toilet for garden use.
Yes a 'utility' room for the white goods with drain in the floor for easy cleaning and any washing machine leaks.

Ray.


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## Kaytutt

The one thing I miss most in my bungalow is the cupboard under the stairs :serious: we have a cupboard in the hallway which has been christened "the cupboard under the stairs :wink2:


A seperate utility room would be a must for me. I like a kitchen/diner, it's much more social


I'm not a fan of en-suite's either so a seperate bathroom sounds good but another cloakroom loo near the bootroom/utility room would be useful


are you going to use the attic space? We have never converted ours, we just never got around to it and we plan to sell next year so it's pointless now but a bungalow has a big footrprint therefore usually a large attic space, if I were going to do mine now it would be half library/study room and half dressing room


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## dghr272

Good luck with your plans.

From the large volumes of TV programs about self building the main issues always appear to be factoring in a good cash contingency to account for overspend and a realistic time line for the build. 

A good understanding of materials lead delivery times will certainly help get it up in the allotted time, unfortunately the weather can't be controlled but can cause serious delays if inclement weather hits you. 

Getting the required design right from the start will also make it easier as changes to design after building has started will add time and costs.

Terry


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## patp

Ooh some good ideas and some good advice.

Having just, at great cost, renovated our old cottage I know not to make some of the mistakes again. South and West facing windows are a must and we will have views from them.

Lighting. We made a big mistake in listening to the electrician and putting led ceiling spots everywhere downstairs. They are far too harsh. I would like one central light and lots of lamps controlled by a central switch. 

Cupboard space is important as Kaytutt says. We had an old walk in pantry which we lost. I so miss it for things like boots and umbrellas etc.

Hmmm - good point about the loft space. It seems a waste to leave it empty and something in this months Which? magazine, about future proofing your home, mentions allocating space for live in carers. The loft might well serve that purpose  Not sure we could ever afford live in carers but it would only mean making sure the services were up there to make it into a studio apartment. Might also serve a grandchild if we ever get any?

A walk in shower is on my list. We used to have one but practicalities on the renovation meant we could not fit one in again. I hate the new shower trays.

Anyone know the regulations on heating now? I am pretty sure you are only allowed to install air or ground source heat pumps? A couple of friends who installed them say they are not up to the job??


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## Pudsey_Bear

One thing buyers look for these days would be the ensuite bathroom, great invention why would no one like them I have to ask?

Liz built a hose a few years ago, a quite stressful task and she's no shrinking violet, we did look at some plots before buying this place though as although stressful she enjoyed the challenge, she doesn't come on here (though I suspect she reads threads) so can't help.


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## patp

En-suite bathrooms are going out of fashion. There will be a bathroom right next door to the Master Bedroom just not inside it! My problem is that they are noisy, smelly, and damp. All the things you don't want in a bedroom 
We will probably have another shower room in or near the boot/dog room.


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## erneboy

We intend using some new generation AC units. They act as heat pumps when reversed and will serve well enough in Spain I think. Not so much in the UK with it's colder longer winters I'd guess though.


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## patp

Lucky you  What area of Spain will you be in?


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## Pudsey_Bear

erneboy said:


> We intend using some new generation AC units. They act as heat pumps when reversed and will serve well enough in Spain I think. Not so much in the UK with it's colder longer winters I'd guess though.


We looked into this a while back, things are much more advanced nowadays if Canada uses them

https://www.nordicghp.com/2015/12/air-source-heats-pump-cold-climates/


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## patp

Look at these too! 

Haven't looked at the price mind you.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall

Also roof tiles.


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## patp

Pudsey_Bear said:


> We looked into this a while back, things are much more advanced nowadays if Canada uses them
> 
> https://www.nordicghp.com/2015/12/air-source-heats-pump-cold-climates/


Friends of ours moved into a house that was heated by one. It is a huge house but they are very disappointed. They have to run it all the time as it is very slow to heat up (underfloor heating). They also have to run the hot water cylinder on mains electricity every so often as it does not heat up enough to kill all bugs. They use their wood burner on winter evenings. They are fairly fit farming people so not frail elderly.


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## bc109

@erneboy
Unless you intend to build on the Costa del Sol, I suggest that AC units on their own won't cope with the Spanish winters.
We have AC inverter units, that is, cold or heat pumps, but also have a 10 KW pellet stove which costs just less than one and a half euros a day average to run through the cold months.

Who wants to be cold ?

Bill


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## erneboy

Thank you. They won't be our only source of heat but since we will certainly need cooling they may as well be part of it.


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## waspes

We have built two bungalows a 2 bed and a 5 bed, even if you dont want to put rooms up in the roof I would put the roof trusses on just incase.
The difference in price from attic trusses to room trusses is not that much more, and even if you never use it, when you want to sell, it will add a lot more value as they wont have to take the roof of to make it into bedrooms. I would also put windows in the pine end walls. [ easier and cheaper to do when building than to do after ]

Peter.


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## patp

We have influence over room sizes at this stage. I am not a fan of huge rooms as they make me restless. We, like many other, knocked two rooms into one in our first Victorian house. I hated it. I like cosy. Of course we have to consider resale value though hopefully that won't affect us 
What is the minimum size room that others could cope with?
In our traditionally built cottage, the original two up two down cottage part has rooms of about 12ft square. The later addition two rooms are slightly larger. I have found these sizes fine. Big enough to get furniture in and still have floor space over.


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## raynipper

Oh gosh Pat we like space. Our lounge/diner/kitchen is about 11m. x 5m. and still not large enough. The chef is never isolated from the diners or chats in the lounge. And or can see the TV at the other end of the room. So we do like space and feel hemmed in when visiting friends in small old quaint village rooms. 
Any adds you see advertising kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms are always vast and probably a 'set'. But it seems thats what people want.

Ray.


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## patp

Funnily enough, Ray, the two new, open plan high spec, bungalows built on the plot next to us have been retrofitted with "dividers" between the kitchen and dining room. They were not selling and I think the feedback must have been that they were too open plan. I think that, for some, the divider might be a good compromise. 
I never entertain and if I did I would not want people interfering with me while I cooked.

Of course we should consider resale and might take an estate agents advice.


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## raynipper

I guess chalk and cheese Pat. We usually dine with friends at least 2 or 3 times a week, in and out. Next month back to back visitors as well as D-Day events. 

Ray.


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## aldra

I too prefer on suite, for privacy 

Not sure where you get the damp smelly room from 

I guess it depends on the number of people in the house, if there is just the two then privacy wouldn’t be the same issue 

I also prefer the large open plan kitchen , although mine is L shaped

We seem to spend a lot of time in there, particularly when friends and family come round 

We can cook, eat and talk and the kids have instant access to the biscuit tin and the ice cream cornets in the fridge 

We have a sitting room just off the dining area so I guess that gives a place for some to go 

Once it was a library with floor to ceiling shelves for books 

But that was when there were eight of us studying etc

And the books have now been dispersed throughout the family and only two bookcases remain of mainly reference books 

The house has changed function many times , walls have been removed , the original doorway into the smaller lounge from the hall has been blocked off inside the lounge , but the door remains, if in future owners wish to open it again 

I wouldn’t like a lounge / dining room , although many do 

So basically it’s down to choice 

Sandra


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## GMLS

Ensuites dont need to be noisy, smelly and damp.Just needs adequate ventilation (natural and/or mechanical).The fans these days can be very quiet.Also led downlighters dont need to be harsh.We've got warm glow bulbs on a dimmer switch and they are excellent.


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## patp

A shower generates steam, a toilet generates smells and the whole en suite can generate noise. I like my bedroom to be calm and quiet. As you say, all about personal choice. When they first became fashionable bathrooms were often shared with many family members and so ensuites gave you your own little space.

This has made me wonder about giving the guest bedroom an ensuite? What do others think?

If we do entertain, Ray, I like to be left alone in the kitchen and then to leave the kitchen behind when we eat. Another move , then, to the lounge/living room away from the sight and smell of the cooking/eating area.


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## raynipper

Maybe Pat with the size of our main room being so large and a extractor at the kitchen end we don't notice smells lingering. We never cook fish indoors and baking smalls are nice. In fact too nice.!
We have a 'bar' between the kitchen and diner and my wife usually prepares well before the guests arrive. It's only the last minute titivating and she likes to be in the conversation and not isolated to another room. It works for us.
If you find any humidity after taking showers, theres always the option to open a window or vent for 30 mins to change the air.

Ray.


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## aldra

Yes as beautiful as I remember it Ray 

We have French doors out of the kitchen and four ventalux windows in the roof , as well as three opening windows , so no excuse for lingering smells 

The dining room has no windows but does have French doors out of it , and is open plan to the hall

I’m also a morning cook, legacy of my years in Israel , and also the months spent in Athens in the heat of summer, all preparations are done early 

In fact I’ve just finished cooking a large boiled ham , as I’m expecting to feed my granddaughter who is coming to stay and her brother who will probably also stay once he gets here

Hot with jersey potatoes, cauliflower cheese and green beans and plenty left for sliced boiled ham cold !!

Cheese sauce made, veg prepped ready to go :grin2:

Sandra


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## patp

Ah that's where I am going wrong! I need cooking lessons (not going to happen  )

To be honest I am not domesticated at all. Far rather be out and about in the countryside. A bit feral really


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## JanHank

Our house was built for 2 people, us 2 😄

I wish I'd had an extractor fan installed, it's still here up in the loft, couldn't put up with workmen in the house installing it now so it's Windows open and inside doors shut, but I don't always remember. 😤
We have a separate kitchen and dining room, but a serving batch to connect the two.
There is a guest room upstairs that gets used once in a blue moon, wish we'd thought about putting a shower 🚿 and loo up there Pat, unfortunately it's not so easy because it's on the wrong side for water and waste. Could do with a second loo when we both want to go at the same time.😣


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## JanHank

*If you are planning for resale.*

This is really a bungalow, but things got changed as it was being built.
The builder advised us to have a couple of extra blocks before putting the roof on, this way if you do extend upwards you have plenty of headroom. Its all spare up there, very good for getting things out of the way and I have a ginormous sewing room.
The other end is where we have made a guest room in case anyone wants to visit us from afar. :grin2:
We could even put a conservatory out there on top of the garage/workshop roof, I sometimes go out there to survey the fields when the crops are high, I can see if any deer are about.


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## aldra

We are all planning for resale Jan

We ain’t going to live for ever 

The pond has had its first coat , two more to go

And one day will those that buy protect those fish?

Fish we have protected for almost 30 years 

They will say they will , but I doubt they will

Another reason it’s hard to sell

Would I sell and leave Shadow to their protection ?

I did that once and it turned out badly , but I was Young and hopeful 

And it wasn’t shadow 

It was pup, a dog who was never given a name, and Vicky the Great Dane who wandered in , unwanted unloved 

And we were in a difficult position 

Sandra


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## aldra

And all these years on

I remember and regret that decision

When we were young 

Sandra


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## patp

Yes, we are thinking that the roof space should be suitable for another room if ever needed. I saw somewhere that in order to "dotage proof" a new build we should incorporate a carers flat! We will probably put the necessary services up there and then leave it. It would also add to the resale value. The bungalow is L shaped with a hallway linking all the rooms and so easier to extend than the traditional square shaped ones.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Fit fire doors as they will be mandatory soon if you have more than one floor, expensive to do it later although you can (at the moment) get fireproof paint and varnish, but it's hellish expensive and a cow to use.


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## patp

Good point Kev. 
I was reading recently that if you build a two storey house, and then want to put stairs up into the loft space, one of the flights of stairs has to be enclosed for fire safety reasons.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Yes that's right unless you have a landing with fire doors, when Liz sold her self build house in 2010 we had to paint all the doors, to new fire regs which didn't exist when she built it, even the downstairs ones, took me ages to do, 7 downstairs and 5 upstairs, and the finish didn't bear close examination, the paint cost about £600, (and it had a time limit on it) but was much cheaper than new doors.


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## patp

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Yes that's right unless you have a landing with fire doors, when Liz sold her self build house in 2010 we had to paint all the doors, to new fire regs which didn't exist when she built it, even the downstairs ones, took me ages to do, 7 downstairs and 5 upstairs, and the finish didn't bear close examination, the paint cost about £600, (and it had a time limit on it) but was much cheaper than new doors.


Was that because it was a timber frame build Kev?


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## Pudsey_Bear

It was timber frame, but it wasn't due to that it was a big wide staircase and a large landing, so fire could get up easily.

And it was 9 doors downstairs 3 were double doors.


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## swanny65

Building our own home - the best thing we ever did..... We built a chalet bungalow almost 20 years ago and still live there. 

Cant disagree with anything on here. Underfloor heating doesn't appear to have been mentioned - in a screeded floor. My brother a builder built his latest home 3 years ago and has an air source heat pump, must confess I don't understand them, with underfloor heating. We went with the idea that every main room in the house should have a feature e.g. woodburner in the lounge, brick feature in the kitchen. If you can, build dormer windows in the roof not velux windows as the look more attractive. Use the roof voids for storage

Funny the fire escape regs have been mentioned. I don't recall exactly the circs but prior to our building being passed all those years ago the building inspector told us we needed a fire escape upstairs. My carpenter (a clever chap) pointed out we could escape with the aid of a roof ladder from a window. I am sure that's not exactly correct but i am sure it was discussed. 

Two bathrooms rather than en-suites. 

I enjoyed the whole experience and would love to do it again when i have retired.


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## patp

Oooh, you are not too far away! The problem is that all the Building Regs change so that previous experience might now be out of date.

We have, recently, been on a self build course run by Potton timber frame spencialists. Our build is traditional Brick and Block but fitting out and regulations are all the same. It is absolutely mind boggling trying to find a way through all the planning regulations and then the building regulations. No longer are they done just by the local council there are private firms that offer the service. Then the insurance aspect it just goes on and on.

We still have not put a spade in the ground  We decided to move the driveway from one side of the plot to the other so that we get our own dedicated driveway rather than a shared one. Back to planning.
Now they are wittering on about a tree survey. They did not want one on the building plot but they do want one for the drive! The drive is a farm track that we share with our farmer neighbour. A tree accidentally fell over while we were surveying our eventual access point 

Thankfully, having lived here for nearly forty years, we know a fair few "trades". Chris will do the plumbing and we have a brickie lined up already. I stumbled across a local joinery firm, literally just down the road, who do amazing work so looks like we are sorted for those. A local farmer friend is a dab hand with a digger to sort out the foundations. Just have to get to grips with the regulations surrounding every single move we make 
Bet Erneboy is not bogged down with as much as we are!


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## erneboy

No, but then nobody will come along and tell you after you've finished that your building is illegal in some obscure way. It's not difficult to understand how that happens here. It's all rather vague.


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## dghr272

Alan, are solar panels a requirement for domestic builds in Spain ?

Just interested as our site owner here built new a toilet and shower block last year and mentioned all commercial builds must now include it ?

His system is like something from the starship Enterprise with backup gas water heating capacity when the sun doesn't shine, very impressive.

Terry


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## erneboy

Not that anybody has told me Terry.


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## patp

It amazes me that we aren't being required to install them. we looked into it and we would fail to reap any return on the investment so we are not going to bother. You can now buy PV roof tiles but the stress of investigating and installing them is too much for us now.
We will, though, be putting in a Ground Source Heat Pump and the best insulation we can afford.


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## dghr272

erneboy said:


> Not that anybody has told me Terry.


Spoke to Juan on site here, he says the domestic solar requirements can vary town to town and area to area and the local Mayor is the usually the go to person.

Terry


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## erneboy

Yes, that's what I expected. The Mayor has made no mention of it and neither has the builder.


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## jhelm

As an architect from the US it is interesting reading your comments. I always liked the open kitchen family room concept but in our place in Italy we have a separate kitchen and I do like it that way. In suite bathrooms is a good discussion I would not have thought that people don´t like them. 

As you age stairs become a problem, so think about where you want your bedrooms, the one story house becomes much more comfortable. Also the bathroom location can be an issue, especially if you have guests in the house, getting up in the night or even when having to stay in bed for periods of time makes getting up putting on a robe and going out into a hallway to the bath can be a problem. The separate kitchen dining area means having to carry the food etc to the table and then back again. The typical Italian house often has an eating area in the kitchen and also a formal dining room Or the California solution an eating bar separating the kitchen and dining areas. 

An architect that does not consider and mention all this stuff and doesn´t even consider the location of windows relative to the sun, breezes, and view is not really an architect. Saving money by hiring an engineer, draftsman or un-trained "architect" is dangerous when making one of life´s biggest investments.


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## patp

Some interesting points there jhelm. 

If the blinds are down and the bathroom is next door then I am sure that the nightly bathroom trip can be made au naturale  We rarely have overnight guests so the robe may only be needed on rare occasions. For years, in our current old cottage, we had to go down some very steep stairs to reach the bathroom! 

I am with the Italians on the dining. We will have informal dining and entertaining at a table in the kitchen unless I find the sight of the messy kitchen when I am eating too much of a distraction  
In our current cottage, there is no hallway, the dining room leads straight from the kitchen, through a door and the lounge leads from the dining area all round corners so that food and dirty dishes are not on display to diners or loungers. I have always loved it! 
In order to repeat that design would have meant lots of compromises in the new house so we have incorporated a hallway this time. If we hate carrying dishes to the next door dining room then we can make a doorway/arch/hatch between the kitchen and dining room if we so wish.

Watching one of the 999 programmes, it brought home to me that elderly people often fall in the bathroom. The paramedics then struggle to treat and/extract the patient. An en suite, unless very spacious, would be more troublesome than a decent sized bathroom.

Architects, in this country, have to mostly work on very small plots. This gives them very little room for manoeuvre when orientating a property. I have to say that space shortage was not the case with our project but he was in frantic conversations with the planners trying to secure their support before they changed their mind!


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## raynipper

We find the open kit/diner/lounge works here. The chef is never left out and dishes can flow.

Ray.


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## erneboy

What a lovely house you have Ray.


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## dghr272

erneboy said:


> What a lovely house you have Ray.


And Ray's hospitality matches it.

Terry


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## raynipper

My wife works hard to keep it looking good.... Ray.


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## jiwawa

I can confirm all of that! It's a essential part of my itinerary!


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## jhelm

Well in the end it is all about you being happy with the layout. I wonder why with a clean sheet of paper and a big enough lot you would have to make a lot of compromises. Cost is always a good reason. And why would the in suite bath have to be small. But also I don´t accept the architects excuse of usually working on small properties. Locating windows relative to views and sun exposure is first year design theory.


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## erneboy

Both my parents were architects. As we grew up we were exposed to frequent critiques of buildings we saw and visited. It was interesting.


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## raynipper

Talking architecture, I just love these collections of French character. Sorry they are on Facebook. Scroll through.

https://www.facebook.com/unguideaparis/photos/a.337070246467319/1238021603038841/?type=3&theater

Ray.


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## dghr272

raynipper said:


> Talking architecture, I just love these collections of French character. Sorry they are on Facebook. Scroll through.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/unguideaparis/photos/a.337070246467319/1238021603038841/?type=3&theater
> 
> Ray.


What great shots, just stunning Ray.

Terry


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## HermanHymer

17 years ago I designed my dream retirement home and now there are few things I would change. The outside style was prescribed by the estate, but the layout whatever the homeowner wanted. 300 m2 it has few but big rooms. Kitchen is off the dining room but open plan. I agree with what Ray says about the chef being excluded from the conversation in the lounge. I chose a central living core with an ensuite bedroom on each side. A small walk-through alcove ensures privacy.

I took it room by room systematically deciding what aspect, what interior layout, how big the windows would be. My thing! Light and views. How much space between the bed and the wall, where the dressing table would go, which artworks would go where, etc etc right down to where the light switches would be right down to which pots would go in which kitchen cupboard. (No I'm not OCD!)

You have to think of everything and visualise the activities of living in it. Get some objective people to find fault with your plans. You don't want to walk in the front door and look into the toilet for instance. The only mistake I made was not to put a switch for the kitchen light as you walk in the kitchen from the garage. Solution, when I go out I leave the display cupboard LED's on. 

One thing that could have been better is that the front door is not obvious from the gate and people are inclined to walk to the kitchen door. I always walk out and lead people towards the front door. 

My suggestion would be at this stage of your life to make it what you want it to be. Perhaps by the time you pop your clogs open plan will no longer be the trend. By then you wont care if its saleable or not. Whatever you choose, make it comfortable, warm, light, welcoming with a lovely ambience. 

Watch a lot of TV programs and be critical - noting your likes and dislikes. Keep a notebook handy. There are lots of house plan books about, also décor ideas. I watched a whole TV series about Canadian home architecture. I educated myself on the topic in every available way, short of taking an architectural degree. It's the detail that counts. 

PS Sandra's house is just as homely as she is. One feature I like is that her below counter cupboards are all drawers so you never have to break your back to reach anything! A pantry cupboard is another great thing.

I dont agree with you about the damp bathroom. My dressing room and bathroom are together - ablutions on one side, hanging space and drawers on the other. Underfloor heating is a blessing. I have Speedheat from Germany in every room in the house even the toilets. Its electric so probably not so eco friendly anymore but very effective and controllable to requirements.

So much to think about.


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## patp

I am asthmatic and the bedroom has to be as dry as possible so the en suite will not be happening. It is also a noise thing - I am up at the crack of dawn and if I want a shower I am going to disturb Chris if it is in an en suite. It can be incorporated at a later date if needs be.

We have, over the years, renovated several properties. The first one we converted to open plan and hated it. I always felt like I should be on the move and could not settle in the open space. Next came a small bungalow which was so easy to clean and maintain that it became our home of choice if we ever got the chance to build one. It faced the wrong way, though, and did not lend itself to extension without making it open plan. Next came the quirky cottage that taught me about facing South and West. I would, now, not live anywhere without that aspect.

The architect of this project was tasked with just getting plans passed for a bungalow next to our cottage that we could start and then leave as an investment for the future. 
It was the planner that rejected that option and suggested he move it to the back of our cottage (known as "backfill" - that has been completely forbidden by planners for over 30 years!) Jason grabbed the opportunity of a bigger and all round better plot and then rushed the plans through before they changed their minds! He faced the bungalow to the front of the plot so that it had impact on approach. It meant the hall would face South and West. We sacrificed that for the living area having views and aspect and I am sure we will be glad we did.

I think that open plan is already going out of fashion. Several of our friends retire to the "snug" rather than using the open plan lounge area. I know Americans have "family rooms" that get far more use than their formal rooms do. Some new, open plan, bungalows in our village have not been selling and the builder has retro fitted a divider between the kitchen/diner and the lounge area because feed back from prospective buyers criticised the open layout of kitchen, diner and lounge all in one space.

What we haven't decided on is whether to incorporate the loft space at this stage. We do not need it. If we get grandchildren may need it?


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## patp

How amazing that you can only find one little detail. Just goes to show how clever you are 
When we renovated the cottage we had a builder do it for us as Chris was still poorly. We tended to get bamboozled into accepting his ideas. We mostly got what we asked for i.e. moving the living room to the back for the West View and the kitchen to the front for the East view. The floors were leveled and doorways widened plus new bedroom downstairs (with and en suite!!!). Of course that is not my bedroom


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## raynipper

Friends in the Dordogne who had built and renovated several houses before decided to design their perfect home for their old age and final days. He is very analytical and careful but even so the end result has many errors he might now concede to.

Vast garage but miniscule door that needs mirrors retracting. Steps to access every door. Main bed south facing with 35c in summer. Second shower too small to bend down in. Large plot that needs all their energy to maintain now.

Ray.


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## HermanHymer

It's always a good thing to make provision for modifications a future owner might prefer if it doesn't involve too much extra cost. I understand your preference for not having the bathroom en suite, Pat. But because it is the generally preferred option, I would make provision for a quick and easy conversion to en suite. 



I only wanted two bedrooms in my house (there is a complete separate granny flat above the garage) but knowing someone might feel differently, I left open land on the 2nd bedroom side so an extension could be built, Access would be by reducing the 2nd bathroom to a guest toilet and basin, and using the shower space to create a passage to bedroom 3and another bathroom. Could also be double story as there is a staircase in the lounge to the mezzanine study. 



Good luck Pat. May it be your dream house!


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## patp

raynipper said:


> Friends in the Dordogne who had built and renovated several houses before decided to design their perfect home for their old age and final days. He is very analytical and careful but even so the end result has many errors he might now concede to.
> 
> Vast garage but miniscule door that needs mirrors retracting. Steps to access every door. Main bed south facing with 35c in summer. Second shower too small to bend down in. Large plot that needs all their energy to maintain now.
> 
> Ray.


We have been on a self builder's course run by timber frame manufacturers for all kinds of self builders. The lecturer is an extremely experienced builder who site managed many large sites and who has, now, built several individual houses and he still makes mistakes.


----------



## patp

HermanHymer said:


> It's always a good thing to make provision for modifications a future owner might prefer if it doesn't involve too much extra cost. I understand your preference for not having the bathroom en suite, Pat. But because it is the generally preferred option, I would make provision for a quick and easy conversion to en suite.
> 
> I only wanted two bedrooms in my house (there is a complete separate granny flat above the garage) but knowing someone might feel differently, I left open land on the 2nd bedroom side so an extension could be built, Access would be by reducing the 2nd bathroom to a guest toilet and basin, and using the shower space to create a passage to bedroom 3and another bathroom. Could also be double story as there is a staircase in the lounge to the mezzanine study.
> 
> Good luck Pat. May it be your dream house!


The bathrooms are both next to bedrooms and so can easily be made en suite if anyone so desires. In fact we are thinking that the second bedroom may have an en suite for guests to have sole use of.

It is a 3 bed property, overlooking open countryside, with the ability to make the dining room into a fourth. Even so, as it is L shaped, it can be added to at either end of the L and even on the right angled corner if so desired. The loft could also be converted into extra accommodation as could the, cart lodge style, garage. I think it is future proofed for people who like larger properties. The garden is a manageable size and, as the views are of open countryside, the garden can have quite a lot of hard landscaping (if Chris has his way it will all be concreted over!)


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## jhelm

As I said an interesting conversation for me to follow. Everyone is an architect when it comes to their own homes. But as an architect I can just say that I have been told by clients that I knew what they wanted and needed better than they did. That is what a good architect does. My way is to approach every project as if I have never done a home before even if I have done hundreds. I write a program with the client listing everything they want in their home, rooms, amenities, etc. Then we go through each room and talk about what they want in it how they will use it. I analyze the site, exposure to the sun, garden areas, prevailing wind and such. I ask the client to give me pictures of things they like and I talk to everyone in the family to understand their needs. I often have had to be somewhat of a marriage counselor as sometimes a couple will disagree on lots of things. The design process then starts with a bubble diagram of rooms and connecting spaces. The bubble diagram becomes a rough sketch of a floor plan which then has to be approved by the client. Then it is refined into a formal plan while keeping in mind the often preconceived style ideas of the client, they get what they want style wise it´s their house. Now days the formal plan becomes a 3D virtual model which can be looked at even walked through virtually. With the software I use it is possible to put on Google goggles and using a smartphone actually put yourself in the spaces and walk around them . It is great fun. But only after all this design and approval by the client do we move on to construction documents. 

Some of you mention what is fashionable at the moment, we would only consider that as being important when designing production housing or apartments. That is all about sales, about making a small space look bigger, or about appealing to what the greatest number of buyers might like.


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## patp

If we had any idea that we would have been planning a new house, John, and also had an unlimited budget then you would have got the job!

In our case we had a tiny time window of opportunity to get planning permission in the first place. We had no intention of living in the new bungalow just putting the foundations down and sitting on the project until we needed to sell up. 
This time scale meant a surfing of contacts to find a recommended architect to achieve the permission. He then had to, quickly, draw up plans that the Local Authority would be likely to approve and that fitted on a smallish plot in between (at that time) an old cottage and a futuristic designed bungalow. Planners didn't like it.
Planner himself then comes up with the idea (time ticking away) of putting said small bungalow behind the old cottage. Architect checks with us (out of country) to see if we are in agreement with new position and puts forward something that, by chatting to us, he thought we might like and which, more importantly, would gain approval with the all powerful planning officer.

We do have architects that design along the lines that you describe but their fees would have been high. We have also heard that once clients get together with these architects all reason flies out of the window and projects escalate to such a degree that the client runs out of money. 

Most jobbing architects have their work cut out fitting enough space for a single bed in the fourth bedroom of a house of a size that should be a single person dwelling  They rarely get the chance to fly with ideas in our over crowded country. When they do television companies make programmes out it 

We are happy that we are getting a single storey residence with the few things we did mention at the beginning (when we weren't even thinking of living in it) A separate lounge area. South and West facing windows and patio doors. 
Just before rushing it through to the planners, before the window closed, we swapped the integral garage for a utility/dog/mud room.
Of course, we could, now, put in to the planners for changes but really cannot think of any that we would like to make. We must be dream clients


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## erneboy

jhelm said:


> ............. Then it is refined into a formal plan while keeping in mind the often preconceived style ideas of the client, they get what they want style wise it´s their house. ..........


That's the key I think. I've seen far too may examples of end products which didn't properly reflect the clients needs or wants due to designers designing to impress other designers.

I did lots of design build landscape contracts and my approach was always that the end product should be what pleased my clients and functioned well.


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## jhelm

patp said:


> , and also had an unlimited budget then you would have got the job!


I suppose I am promoting myself here but that is not my intent, I really hate the impression many people have that an architect will go crazy with the budget and only design to impress other architects. So I am trying to set the record straight. Architects like anyone else need to get paid a reasonable amount for their time. The problem we face is that time spent thinking and designing does not relate easily to a product in hand. So people tend to think that someone who can quickly give them a set of plans is who they should hire. Generally in many or most countries home plans do not require the signature of a licensed architect so there are plenty of people out there pretending to know what they are doing even calling themselves architects and who do the work cheaper and quicker without putting the proper amount of thought into the process. Also it is not also true that work done by a proper architect is always more expensive than work done by others. People just have that impression.

On the topic of budget here is where we should shine, it is our job to tell the client what they can and cannot afford. But also we know many tricks that can give the client most of what they want without busting their budgets. And of course hiring an architect is like hiring anyone else - talk to their references, ask the questions, did their project come in within budget, if not why, did they get the design they wanted etc.

We spend 5 years or more in university, pass stringent license exams and have years of experience we do have more to offer the client than someone much less qualified.


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## raynipper

One of my gripes of so called 'designers' is how they arrange the wash hand basin and cosmetic cupboard above.
Even large and spacious RVs often place a large cupboard over the sink so you can't brush your teeth over the basin. We find this in friends houses where the basin is so low you can get back ache just brushing your teeth.

Such a simple thing but only found out when you actually go through the ablutions motions every morning and night. 
The other thing I am sure designers never actually sit on the loo. If they did they would see all their mistakes staring them in the face. 
And while we are about it having taps as a standard hot on or turn to the left and cold right.

Ray.


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## patp

I must say, John, that I did not feel your passion from my architect  I think he looks on himself as someone who understands the planning system and designing houses that will get passed by the planners. It does seem that it is how our system has evolved. In the forty odd years that we have been interested in planning matters houses seem to be designed for one purpose only and that is to please the whims of the planning officer in charge of the case. I don't know what qualifications they hold but it beggars belief at the things they insist are included sometimes.

At one time nearly every house was required to have dormer windows. Builders hate them because buyers don't buy them. Then it was square boxes. Next came lots of angles and now it seems to be copies of barns with very small windows (because barns don't have windows so we better make them inconspicuous)

Very rarely do people find a plot where the architect can have the freedom to express his and his client's wishes. Planners will just not allow it. There is a little known clause in the planning regs that can be invoked, where planners will not allow any building at all, for a dwelling to be built that is of "exceptional merit". This, to me, means a house that the owner and the architect can take flight with. In all other cases the planners hold all the cards. We can fight them but it is very time consuming and expensive to do so. This has not applied in our case but we see it all the time in our local area.

We applied to change the position of our drive after planning had been granted for the bungalow. A different planning officer than the original is dealing with the matter. She has decided that we need a tree survey because she can see mature trees on an aerial photograph. The track we are using as a driveway has been in existence for well over a hundred years serving a now demolished farmhouse. Why on earth is she insisting we survey the trees on either side of a track that is in continuous use?


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## Pudsey_Bear

When I first met Liz she had recently built her own house, 5 bedrooms, full size attic, diner kitchen, huge family room and lounge, ensuite for the master bedroom and a family bathroom, downstairs loo.


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## raynipper

Now if ever there was an attraction, thats it Kev.

Ray.


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## patp

raynipper said:


> One of my gripes of so called 'designers' is how they arrange the wash hand basin and cosmetic cupboard above.
> Even large and spacious RVs often place a large cupboard over the sink so you can't brush your teeth over the basin. We find this in friends houses where the basin is so low you can get back ache just brushing your teeth.
> 
> Such a simple thing but only found out when you actually go through the ablutions motions every morning and night.
> The other thing I am sure designers never actually sit on the loo. If they did they would see all their mistakes staring them in the face.
> And while we are about it having taps as a standard hot on or turn to the left and cold right.
> 
> Ray.


Another reason we did not want an en suite. We have designed in, this time, a proper sized shower room next door to the bedroom and a full sized bathroom further down the hall. As Chris is the plumber we "should" get things where we want them. I say "should" because I have noticed, over the years, that Chris will design any plumbing project more towards the position of the water supply and drain system than he will towards it being "user friendly". For years we had no shower in our old cottage because Chris insisted that it would not fit in the corner where I wanted it sited (an alcove beside a chimney breast). It turned out that it did fit but the plumbing was not as easy as the place he wanted to put it! 

Chris tells me that taps are positioned and designed the way they are for the visually impaired. It helps them to know where the, potentially dangerous, hot tap is.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Not sure what you meant there Ray?


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## raynipper

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Not sure what you meant there Ray?


I think any young lady that came with a sizeable property of her own would definitely attract me Kev.:wink2:

Ray.


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## erneboy

In the UK John an architect's grasp of budget on a small project would usually be quite vague till they'd sent a project to tender. Then they'd look for cuts if cuts were needed.

Quantity surveying is another discipline. Architects would on major projects work very closely with a QS, but not so often when it comes to individual housing projects. In many cases the UK architect's idea of budget might just come from previous experience and knowing about the final cost of other similar projects or an approximate figure based on square footage.

From what I've see in the movies and on the telly US architects would often seem to be a good deal more involved in the construction than they are here. Here we might have a weekly site meeting but if all was going well that might only be monthly, and possibly in the case of a single house just two or three site visits might suffice.


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## Pudsey_Bear

raynipper said:


> I think any young lady that came with a sizeable property of her own would definitely attract me Kev.:wink2:
> 
> Ray.


Ah! I see, yes that would attract some I suppose, I was living in a static at the time having just sold my house, she invited me to move in 13 years ago, we've moved twice since then.

Liz is worth more than bricks and mortar to me, she's pure gold.


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## jhelm

I really don´t understand the comments regarding design control by the local government. If I Google images of modern homes in the UK there seems to be no lack of creative designs. In the US we are limited by many things but the general design is not usually one of them for single homes unless they are in an area governed by a home owners association. I have to wonder if the architects are just not willing to make the effort when say something like energy consumption related to window sizes comes up. That is a big deal in California but has never stopped me from putting in lots of big ones. 

As to costs, one does not have to be completely aware of the latest costs to be able to somewhat at least make a big attempt to stay in a budget, there are cost estimating sites, for example and also one does not have to be a genius to understand that custom size windows as opposed to standard cost more, or that marble floors are more expensive than wood.


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## jhelm

Tell me if this works one of our projects in California done on a tight budget believe it or not, we used industrial roof panels and sliding glass doors as windows all because they cost less. And talk about your steamy bedrooms the client wanted a Jacuzzi in the bedroom. https://www.houzz.com/hznb/projects/kraus-residence-del-mar-pj-vj~887491


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## erneboy

Some lovely buildings there, no doubt about it.

They're so well co-ordinated, who did the interiors?


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## Pudsey_Bear

The link took me to some Russian web site.


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## patp

Every Local Authority will have different rules. Within each Local Authority the individual planners will have different ideas. Our architect was happy to work with one but not happy to work with another. What they say goes.
There is an appeal process whereby you can take your case to the "planning committee" which is an un-elected, un- trained body of people who pass judgement on each individual case brought before them. Those that observe these planning committee meetings will tell you that there is no rhyme or reason to their decisions. Some days they pass everything and some days they refuse everything. Lately, as there is a severe shortfall in the Local Authority housing supply they are passing more than they are refusing. That window of opportunity, which we took advantage of, is due to close in September.

The planners follow the fashions and along side dormer windows, locally, they also had a thing about the colour of the roof tiles. At one time they had to be black and at another time you were only allowed red.

The above is the reason that you will see different designs. As planners leave and are replaced by others so designs will change. Some architects will go to planning committee meetings to argue their case for an unusual design to be allowed. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. About time the whole system was overhauled really.


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## erneboy

No rhyme nor reason is quite correct and they will happily ignore planning policy if the application happens to be from someone they are keen to oblige. Just had an instance of that at home where a development was permitted in an area of outstanding beauty contrary to at least three stipulations in the policy for that area. There was strong political influence.


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## raynipper

The Masons and their funny handshake can sway some decisions.

Ray.


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## erneboy

Mmmm. In this case it was a political party. Influential at Westminster just now. Very. 

As corrupt as a very corrupt thing.

From planning decisions in rural parts of NI to what they do in parliament it's all about personal gain. Most of them don't even make much effort to hide it. It's largely open and the attitude is "what do you think you can do about it?"

I'll PM the details to anyone who wants the full SP.

The applicant who got the permission against all the planning guidelines was called Robinson.


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## patp

Well, we have had the earth scraped off the site prior to digging the actual footings. It has given us the idea of the size and shape of the building. It is a bit worrying that everyone who sees it says how big it is. Building sites often look smaller than they turn out to be. That was definitely not our intention. I think the reason it looks big is that it has a hallway that serves all the rooms rather than being open plan. It is also L shaped. Because the plot did not restrict the size we could have the architect has been able to give good sized rooms too.

Next came the bother over the trees. There are some Sycamore trees on the site boundary and a hawthorn hedge. Now most people know that you have to be careful with trees close to houses but do you know why? It is not, as I thought, that the roots would creep under the house and cause problems. it is because they suck up moisture and, therefore, dry out the land underneath the foundations which can cause cracking and subsidence. Some trees are worse than others. We all know about Willows. The Sycamores are close enough to cause such problems and they cast a lot of shade and will shed a lot of leaves. They are also shallow rooted and so could, in high winds, fall on the house. We decided to enlist Farmer Mark next door to remove them. If you have ever tried to dig up a hawthorn then you will know what a job we had. An ordinary JCB was not man enough! He had to bring his 12 ton massive beast. It was a shame but, we thought, necessary.

I was in constant email contact with the Building Control Officer. He was advising that we dig deeper where the trees were and pour more concrete into the footings. Over the weekend we decided to dig them all out (about five massive Sycamores and four hawthorns) but could not inform him of our decision until the deed was done. He now informs us that removing large trees and hedges can cause the land to become suddenly wetter which brings different kinds of problems! He has scheduled a site visit for tomorrow to discuss our options.
I still think we made the right decision but I might change my mind tomorrow when he delivers his verdict.


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## erneboy

You've probably already seen this, but if not: https://www.thenational.scot/news/17846491.nigel-farage-tweet-new-british-passport-not-go-well/

This is something I was involved in at work. It's an interesting topic.


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## patp

Did you mean to post about Nigel Farage erneboy?


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## erneboy

No Pat, sorry. It should have been about trees.

These weren't it, but they are similar: https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=225

https://nhbccampaigns.co.uk/landingpages/techzone/previous_versions/2011/Part4/section2/default.htm

A lot of work has been done on the topic in the last twenty years or so. I'd think it possible that older builders and landscapers might not be up to speed on it and will think that what they always did, whatever that might be, was fine.


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## dghr272

erneboy said:


> Mmmm. In this case it was a political party. Influential at Westminster just now. Very.
> 
> As corrupt as a very corrupt thing.
> 
> From planning decisions in rural parts of NI to what they do in parliament it's all about personal gain. Most of them don't even make much effort to hide it. It's largely open and the attitude is "what do you think you can do about it?"
> 
> I'll PM the details to anyone who wants the full SP.
> 
> The applicant who got the permission against all the planning guidelines was called Robinson.


Plenty in the archives re the connection between developer Fred Fraser and the DUP controlled Castlereagh Council.

The development I recall was in previously green belted land in South Belfast that eventually had thousands of homes rammed in.

As you can see in the links below it appears very much to be a profitable back scratching excercise.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...of-fred-frasers-housing-schemes-28514264.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8595547.stm

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-ne...nson-scandal-gave-money-to-dup-funds-1-786016

It all seems to fits with how the god fearing bible thumping DUP role. Wonderful what believing can do for you.

Terry


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## erneboy

I know all about it Terry.

I bet you'd never be able to guess the surname of the person who made the application I was referring to? You know, the one that broke all the rules but was approved, without explanation, anyway.


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## patp

Just thought I would give an update on this thread.

Like most build projects it has been stop start, stop start. The stop started (see what I did there?!) when our expert digger driver took offence at us using Mark next door to just scrape off a bit of excess infill before the main pour of concrete foundations was due to happen. He was supposed to supervise all that for us but was suddenly "too busy"  This meant a frantic scramble to find a competent person to take over  We managed to find one and it all went well.

Then the rain started. Having worked at laying the damp proof membrane over the whole site in 30 deg heat we were now on hold for the brickie to start because bricks cannot be laid in the rain. I always used to think that bricklayers were woosies for not working in the rain but there is a good technical reason for them downing tools. Rain dilutes the mortar. He came back to site for a while and got the walls up to window height but when the former (pretend) windows were offered up to the, carefully laid, brickwork a problem with the size of the windows appeared. Who knew that a bricklayer works in centimetres? He had laid the bricks exactly to the drawings down to the last centimetre but the window maker had worked from earlier plans that were not quite accurate. As novices we had given the window maker the designer drawings and given the working ones to the bricklayer  After much cussing the bricklayer told us he could sort it out by some sort of magic with stretching the line of bricks to fit. Phew!

The brickie then noticed that the dog/utility room had only one window and that was in the wash down area. We had forgotten, when we asked for the integral garage to be made into a dog/shower/utility room to add another window. Quick phone call to order another window and £1200 poorer it arrived from the joinery company.

Than the rain came back  For a normally dry Norfolk we have had so much rain! Now that has largely eased we are getting temperatures that are too low for brick laying 

As project manager I have to think ahead and we have now ordered the roof trusses and got quotes for the roof, the roof tiles have been chosen (of course we only liked the expensive ones and we need loads and loads) and quotes for solar panels. UK power arrived to give us a quote for an electricity supply and told Chris that he must move the electricity box, used by the brickie for his mixer, to a safer environment  We are now on the hunt for a shed or small caravan to put it in. 

We were hoping to have the roof on for Christmas but it is looking doubtful now.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Liz built her own house, sounds like nothing has changed Pat.


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## patp

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Liz built her own house, sounds like nothing has changed Pat.


Quite so Kev. The only thing that has changed is the Health and Safety and ever tighter Building Control regulations. 
I was explaining to my brother in the States, where their houses are nearly all timber framed and get erected in no time at all, about the culture of tradesmen running several jobs at the same time. There are builds around here that, for cost reasons, are much more delayed than ours. Having lived here for nigh on 40 years we know lots of people who know lots of people. We are also lucky to be able to live in a house while we are doing the build. If my brother had not lent us some money then we would be moving into the fifth wheel about now.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Liz was still married but separated when we met, they wanted to sell the self build, and buy two new houses sans mortgage, then the smelly stuff hit the fan, the house had not been signed off, so we then had to upgrade it to current regs which meant fireproof doors and having to isolate the huge loft (bedroom) fortunately I was a bit handy then so we built a partition wall and put a standard door in it, I then got some bloody expensive fireproof paint and did all the doors, never again, a absolute cow to apply with undercoat, and a finish like 80 grit. Still it did sell eventually at 200k less than the original estate agents estimate, it was 2010 and prices went through the floor, but we did get enough to buy a couple of decent properties out of it, skint now though.


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## H1-GBV

I don't know what sort of "shed" you are thinking about but my son, who is living in a caravan in our garden, has his washing machine & tumble dryer running off an extension lead in a plastic "wheelie bin" store, bought at HomeBase for £135.

https://www.homebase.co.uk/keter-store-it-out-max-garden-storage-beige-green-1200l_p261326

It took us about 30minutes to construct and is totally waterproof.

HTH - Gordon


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## patp

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Liz was still married but separated when we met, they wanted to sell the self build, and buy two new houses sans mortgage, then the smelly stuff hit the fan, the house had not been signed off, so we then had to upgrade it to current regs which meant fireproof doors and having to isolate the huge loft (bedroom) fortunately I was a bit handy then so we built a partition wall and put a standard door in it, I then got some bloody expensive fireproof paint and did all the doors, never again, a absolute cow to apply with undercoat, and a finish like 80 grit. Still it did sell eventually at 200k less than the original estate agents estimate, it was 2010 and prices went through the floor, but we did get enough to buy a couple of decent properties out of it, skint now though.


Hope we will avoid all that in a bungalow Kev!! Architect has put three windows in the main bedroom so we should be able to exit one of them somehow. The roof has been designed to be non habitable too so that should save us money on fire regs.


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## patp

H1-GBV said:


> I don't know what sort of "shed" you are thinking about but my son, who is living in a caravan in our garden, has his washing machine & tumble dryer running off an extension lead in a plastic "wheelie bin" store, bought at HomeBase for £135.
> 
> https://www.homebase.co.uk/keter-store-it-out-max-garden-storage-beige-green-1200l_p261326
> 
> It took us about 30minutes to construct and is totally waterproof.
> 
> HTH - Gordon


Thanks Gordon. It is already in an electricity meter type box but that is fixed to a pole in the middle of the site. The inspector who visited recently said it could be knocked over so told us to move it. We are now thinking that we could affix the box to the perimeter fence where it should be safe.

We have just driven all the way to Northrepps to look at a cheap caravan only to find it completely wedged between two trees!! No warning from the seller that it might be a two man job to fell a couple of trees! Cheeky b*** wanted us to go in the dark last night and then argued over an offer we made saying only if we transferred the money to his account before even seeing it! I have just put a wanted addvert out locally. If no joy will just fix it to the fence.


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## patp

Well, as some may know, you can't lay bricks if it is raining as the mortar gets washed out. Neither can you lay bricks in temperatures below 4 deg C. So, what weather have we had for the past couple of months? Biblical amounts of rain is the answer, and the weather now seems about to change to - you got it - frosts!

For this Eastern region the rain has been unbelievable. Flooding is causing disruption and even entering property in places. All hell has broken out in the village because a local farmer, having allowed contractors to harvest potatoes and bugger up his land drains, caused flooding of gardens. One of those gardens has the amenity of a bore hole sunk down to release pressured water from an artesian well. When it was drilled it was not capped properly and leaks copious amounts of water along ditches to the rea of several properties and into our large natural pond. No one, except us, usually notices the water running through the ditch until the farmer needed to clear the ditch and the bore hole is blocking him doing it successfully. 

The bore hole owners, a pair of retired doctors, refuse point blank to do anything about their leaking bore hole. We haven't minded up to now as it is nice to see and hear running water even though the wildlife find the water a little too cold for them.

I have a serious question now - would you buy a house with a stream running through it into a large natural pond? We will have to sell at some point and wonder whether to sell with the stream and pond or whether to fence it in with our new bungalow. We would have to maintain the pond into our old age though.


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## raynipper

No would be my choice Pat. Seen too many flooded homes.

Just round the corner from you Pat our niece.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157856018059109



Ray.


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## patp

Me, too, Ray but when the developers were planning the new builds next to us I heard one of them say " I would love to buy a property with a stream running through it". He was over ruled, however, because they ended up piping the stream right up to our boundary where it emerges in all its glory. When we had the house on the market a few years ago we were stopped by someone visiting their family who said "oh you live in the cottage with the stream running through!" as though they had been attracted to it (on paper). So, I suppose, it is horses for courses in the end.


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## patp

Just a quick update.

The roof trusses are going up. Yay! I always assumed a roofer did that but, no, it is a carpenter. Bit scary to watch as they clamber about the rafters like monkeys. Once they have completed their part of the job, which includes the fascias and soffits, the actual roofer will come and put the felt on. The place will then be able to dry out. The tiles will be next and, once the scaffolding comes down, the windows can go in. Can't wait!

Bit of drama when Chris slipped, while pushing a barrow load of bricks, and pitched head first, across the barrow and cracked his head on a stack of bricks. I watched it all happen from the window, as I was waiting for him to come in for a cuppa. I waited for him to move and he didn't. I turned to run out to him but checked to see if he had moved but he was still motionless across the barrow. Wellies on and sprinted as fast as the mud would allow but he was up by the time I got there. Phew! He swears he was not KO'd. He says he was just laying there assessing the damage and saying something beginning with F over and over again!

He has two small cuts above his eye and a real cracker of a black eye but is otherwise fine. It could have been a real drama because he, obviously, could not drive and I had another spell of double vision and after asking the doctor had been advised not to drive. Getting a lift would be risky. Not serious enough for an ambulance. I put my vet nursing skills to the test and he is fine.


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## Pudsey_Bear

Glad Chris is okay pat.


You should post should post some build pictures.


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## jiwawa

Wow, what a day! I do hope Chris is OK n not doing the 'manly' thing.

Never mind a pic of the build - what about Chris's black eye!


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## aldra

So Chris is almost a dog ?

Feed him hearts, liver, kidney , beef

He will be fine

Slap a steak on the eye and all will be well

So says Shadow who is coming on leaps and bounds

Sandra


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## patp

If I could, Kev, I would


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## dghr272

patp said:


> If I could, Kev, I would


If you get a few using the iPad it's not that difficult, I'm happy to help you with the process if you want.

Terry


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## patp

That's interesting about demolishing an old house to build a new one on the plot. It does happen around here but usually when the renovation of an old property hits problems with planning officers.
We have our existing cottage on the market at the moment. We were discussing the market with a builder neighbour and when he heard that the cottage sits in a quarter of an acre he suggested we demolish and build three houses on it!


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## raynipper

Usually on prime or expensive locations like Sandbanks or protected beach side properties.

Ray.


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## Coilavana

It's better to build new than renovate.


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## patp

Yes, Coilavana, we have done three renovations and, unless you can live off site, they can be very stressful. The last one, this house that we live in now, we moved into with a 14 month old baby, a couple of horses, a couple of goats and a couple of dogs!


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## Coilavana

We decided to build a house on our own. We made this decision in September last year. We sold the apartment and built a house over the summer. There is a completely different ecology here, even sleeping in a different way. I like the feeling of closeness with nature, and it's good for children here: they forget about gadgets and spend more time on the street. It was my little dream - to design my own house myself. I have prepared all the drawings, my friends advised us to build a construction team. And I ordered excellent scaffolding from Pete Suen I can advise you on them.


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## patp

All finished with scaffolding now. Paint is going on the walls as I type and tiler is in next week to tile the bathroom, the en suite and doggy shower room.


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## Pudsey_Bear

I don't think they deliver to the UK anyway.


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## weldted

To get the best from your heating being as gas boilers will be on their way out. I would install underfloor heating using ground source as the medium for the heat exchange. How heat pumps work is the reverse of your fridge freezer. To create heat they have to get rid of cold. A ground source will be a better medium to get rid of the cold than air source will be especially in below freezing temps. To fit air or ground source pumps to heat conventional radiators does not work very well beacause of the lower heat attained.


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## patp

Thanks weldted. We have installed an air source heat pump serving underfloor pipes. We have also installed solar panels to help power them. There is a South and a West facing roof so we should, in this area of the country, generate a fair bit of energy to power it.


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## weldted

Anything you need contractors for, get at least three quotes, get everything in writing, don’t be afraid to haggle. Look for ex display kitchens if they suit. If you see a display you like talk to them see when they might change it. Offer them the use of your kitchen photo’s. 20% contingency minimum. Keep on top of disposing of debris. It soon builds up. If you are project managing it order early. Where possible fixed prices, avoid day work where possible. It’s how you want the house built not your builders.


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## patp

Having lived here for forty years we know quite a few people who, in turn, know people. We have, therefore, been very lucky in sourcing trades people. Our roofer was recommended and he turned into a temporary project manager while he was here. He put us in touch with an electrician who is a whizz with solar panels and all things electric. Then he recommended a carpenter who, again, was and is still amazing at his job. Then there was the floor screed boys. All have been asked for quotes and they are checked against other quotes. We have found, here in Norfolk, that everyone seems very fair at their pricing. The only thing pushing up pricing is the scarcity of labour and materials


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