# Buyer Beware !



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

As you know I was on the lookout for a van to get us back on the mhing ladder so to speak

Been going through ebay vans and found what seemed to be a right bargain

a 1996 N&B Flair was duly found and added to watchlist, fully loaded, Kathrein satellite system, reversing camera, built in Honda electric start gennie, Cab AC, Leisure AC, u name it this van had it. Rear over garage bed, pull down bed for the girls over the cab, ideal I thought no messing about making beds at night.

The Ebay item number is 260946385375 I won't link direct to it

The photos on ebay made it look superb VFM and my first response was BUY IT, but my sensible head kicked in so started querying the seller, asking the history, any more photos (some views were conspicious by their absence) Friends I consulted all agreed incredible price (just shy of £17k)

Got an email back with a view of the interior of the rear garage (which looked untidy to the extreme and dirty), ah well thinks I, nothing a clean out wouldn't sort

Asked more questions, as the van was "up North" asked if friends of mine could do an initial viewing on my behalf as they were only 20 miles away to which seller agreed

I also requested photos of the other side of the van (not shown in any of the photos)

The seller went quiet, and then the morning of the viewing I received an email with an offhand comment of something along the lines of "oh there are lines/ripples on that side of the van, don't know how they got there" The image showed one ripple zoomed in.

Pictures taken of the van by friends show the real extent of the damage. Another photo he supplied is below:

The Lines / ripples are all over one side of the van, they are actually what looks like crumple damage i.e. where the van has taken a rear / top impact substantial enough to ruin the external (and possibly internal but this can't be ascertained other than by removing the interior / exterior walls of the van) wall
This obviously completely alters the resale value of the van

Note: nowhere on the ebay listing did it mention the damage or allude to it :twisted: 

A HPI of the van shows it hasn't been through insurance / reclassified etc so god knows how a van would get like this

Anyways my friends went to view the van and from the photos they took it appears one of the top bodywork sections of the van has been moved / modified which might have been the impact point, there are also other damaged sections (again not shown in his ebay pictures)

Lessons from this

1. Don't take anything for granted on Ebay, make sure there are photos of every side / angle of the exterior of the van / garage etc

2. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is

3. If the buyer is cagey and something doesn't seem right, just walk away from the deal and don't waste time and effort on it !


----------



## satco (Jan 21, 2012)

well, a typical ebay cheat , isn`t it?
I wonder how the owner kept the windows intact ??




Jan


----------



## Ian_n_Suzy (Feb 15, 2009)

> "2. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is "


For me, this should always be the first thought to cross anybodies mind if they see what appears to be an absolute bargain.

Sadly (and this is not aimed at you Nuke), "Greed" takes over and God knows how many people get scammed, purely because they think they could get an absolute bargain.


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> I wonder how the owner kept the windows intact ??


lol god knows, or they might not be the originals and be replacements


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Apart from the creases Nuke, it does look a cracking van. 
You could always make a silly offer and live with it.

Ray.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Surely not without knowing what caused the damage and what further damage might be behind the skin. It looks to me as though at least one of those wrinkles carries on into the window frame. It would be very interesting to know what caused them, Alan.

Edit: They run from and to weak points, I would guess a rear shunt on that side as Nuke suggests.


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

if there had been one I would have done as you say Ray, but with so many all on one side, who is to say what underlying damage there might also be
The resale value of the van would be severely limited, the offer would be so low I know they wouldn't accept lol

I note he has already had 2 declined offers, no doubt other people 'chancing it'


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I bought a couple of old and problematical RVs very cheap in the 90s.

In the three years I owned each one I repaired and replaced so many bits and pieces it was a great learning curve and profitable in the end.

One had been rented out on self drive to the BBC and they managed to destroy the engine, king pins, water and electrical system as well as put a 15ft. gouge down one side.

The other had been parked up in a field for several years as a shed for his daughters to 'play' with their horses.
The roof leaked so bad the floor disintegrated. All tanks were solid with solids! As soon as it moved all the tyres and belts shredded. It had mice and birds nests in it.

Great challenges and education.

Ray.


----------



## Bill_H (Feb 18, 2011)

I can't believe anyone would spend £17000 without viewing it.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Interesting picture with several ripples apparent, rear end shunt? or did he reverse into something without looking?

As they were not honest about what caused it there is no way that you could, or would, proceed. If they had been honest, yes the price would have been lower but some things can be tolerated if you know the underlying cause.......

Keep looking - you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince! :lol: 

Thanks for posting with the details - it may well prevent some poor soul making such a mistake in future........ we can all learn from others potential mistakes. 8O 

Dave


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> If they had been honest, yes the price would have been lower but some things can be tolerated if you know the underlying cause.......


yep that is the main reason for me to discount it immediately


----------



## Bubblehead (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi

Lucky escape from what would have been an expensive excercise, even if you hadnt bought it (fuel to view etc).

Ive seen damage similar but not as bad to a van that was grounded out on a large speed ramp at speed, could have happened here. Was there any damage to the rear? if you think it was reversed into something.

Can you object to a sale on Ebay (not as described)?

Andy


----------



## Jezport (Jun 19, 2008)

I think we should all ask loads of questions and really keep the guy busy :lol: 

Ask for photos of the other side of the van etc. Or put silly offers in reflecting the scrap value.


----------



## nidge1 (Jul 26, 2009)

nukeadmin said:


> As you know I was on the lookout for a van to get us back on the mhing ladder so to speak
> 
> Been going through ebay vans and found what seemed to be a right bargain
> 
> ...


Is it me or What?

Put in the Number on E Bay this morning and it did have the N&B Flair advert and details. Browsed it over a couple of times and saved it in my E Bay favourites.

Have been on this evening and the N&B Flair has morphed into a 2001 Swift Gazelle!!! I'm sure it is the same seller.

Strange or What!!!!


----------



## ched999uk (Jan 31, 2011)

The seller has 3 other motorhomes for sale on ebay!


----------



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Did the same for me,first time I have ever saw that on Fleabay!


----------



## nidge1 (Jul 26, 2009)

Just been back on E Bay and can see what the seller has done.

He has made numerous revisions of make and details (seems he can actually do this according to E bay rules) 

Shall we all have a guess what the M/H will be tomorrow? :lol: :lol:


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

blimey, i too didn't know you could do that on Ebay, looking at all his revisions I wander if he is an mhf member then and has seen my post 

The Flair has now been removed from Ebay (for now)


----------



## robx5 (Apr 22, 2009)

Simple rule of life, you get what you pay for. 

If you want to buy a pile of manure go and see a farmer.


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Trusty adage......

"If it looks too good to be true, it almost certainly is"

along with

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

and

"Trust no-one, that way you will never be disappointed"


No-one would consider 17K a sensible price for such a prestigious motor home, (just do a google search for similar MH's to get a "feel" for retail values) Just look at what else is around for similar money and the absurdity of this ad becomes evident.

If I saw such an advert I would be deafened by the alarm bells ringing in my head !!!! (and so should you!!!!!)


----------



## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

i was and hence why i asked for many photos, queried everything 

I posted it as a warning to anyone else viewing mhs on ebay


----------



## lotte11 (Jan 29, 2012)

:evil: watch out for scams in the auto trader aswell like autotrail MH for 8,000 if to good to be true it is!!!!


----------



## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

OK Nuke !!

Sorry fully didnt understand the reasson for your post.


Now retreating back under my stone


----------

