# Always unwind your EHU cable



## Jean-Luc

BBC News - Electric lead warning over Barmouth caravan deaths


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## Rosbotham

...and indeed don't remove the battery from your smoke detector. I wonder how many of us have been guilty of that too.

It's a shame that it takes incidents like this to remind us all.


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## GerryD

I have found that there is a higher proportion of motorhomers and caravanners who leave their EHU lead coiled up than fully extend the lead.
This is dangerous and can as has been shown cause fires, but too many people can't be bothered.
Gerry


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## Zebedee

GerryD said:


> I have found that there is a higher proportion of motorhomers and caravanners who leave their EHU lead coiled up than fully extend the lead.
> This is dangerous and can as has been shown cause fires, but too many people can't be bothered.
> Gerry


Quite so Gerry, and that's why I would never use a reel of any kind. Leaving those partly wound is really asking for it! 8O

I coil mine by hand, then if we are fairly close to the supply I lay the remaining coils on the floor by the van and spread them a bit, so the coils are not laying directly on top of each other.

That's adequate to ensure the heat does not build up, and it's easy enough to gather up the coils when you leave.

Dave


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## tonyt

It wasn't the coiled hook up cable that caused their deaths, it was the lack of a working smoke alarm - so simple, so cheap - they could even charge up the batteries from the power coming through the ehu cable - how sad is that.


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## GerryD

Zebedee said:


> GerryD said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have found that there is a higher proportion of motorhomers and caravanners who leave their EHU lead coiled up than fully extend the lead.
> This is dangerous and can as has been shown cause fires, but too many people can't be bothered.
> Gerry
> 
> 
> 
> Quite so Gerry, and that's why I would never use a reel of any kind. Leaving those partly wound is really asking for it! 8O
> 
> I coil mine by hand, then if we are fairly close to the supply I lay the remaining coils on the floor by the van and spread them a bit, so the coils are not laying directly on top of each other.
> 
> That's adequate to ensure the heat does not build up, and it's easy enough to gather up the coils when you leave.
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,
I always use a reel as it prevents tangling, but my cable is always fully unwound before being connected and any spare length is laid along the ground to the side of the vehicle.
Gerry


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## Zebedee

GerryD said:


> I always use a reel as it prevents tangling, but my cable is always fully unwound before being connected and any spare length is laid along the ground to the side of the vehicle.
> Gerry


Can't get a reel in our locker Gerry - should have given the *reel *(_sorry!!_ :roll: ) reason in case it sounded like a criticism of those who do use one.

As you say, fully unwound and you are perfectly safe. :wink:

Dave


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## erneboy

I am amazed by the number of people who don't know about the risk of using coiled up extension leads. 

Last year one evening I noticed a Spanish van parked beside and connected to EHU using what must have been a 100m lead all coiled up. I said nothing as many do the same thing. In the morning the insulation on his lead had melted into one piece. He complained bitterly about the faulty lead and changed it for another one connected in exactly the same way. When I recommended uncoiling the new lead because using it coiled up had caused the problem I think he thought I was a nutter. He informed me they were coiled up so that they could be uncoiled to a suitable length and used on the reel, Alan.


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## cronkle

I'm another one that never rolls a hook up cable up. It makes sure that I'm not tempted into partially unrolling it.

We usually store the cables in what amounts to an old style shoe bag (used to have one for my indoor shoes at school). This was made to size out of a lightweight washable fabric - being laid into the bag flat normally stops it slithering around and getting all tangled.

We recently bought something that looks like an oversized tree tie from Poundland. The idea is that it will keep all of the loops together and means that the cable can be hung on the side of a locker.


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## eurajohn

Whilst I'm not suggesting that anyone should ignore the advice given by all above, the level of danger is relevant to the amount of current being drawn. If only small amounts i.e. fridge, on board charger etc. are used then a negligible amount of heat will be generated, if using any type of heating appliance including kettles and ovens etc. it would be unwise to leave coiled.


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## erneboy

Quite correct but as I have no way of knowing where the tipping point (in terms of load) is I uncoil, to be sure, to be sure, Alan.


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## Zebedee

erneboy said:


> Quite correct but aAs I have no way of knowing where the tipping point (in terms of load) is I uncoil, to be sure, to be sure, Alan.


What Alan said.

John is quite right, but especially in the winter I prepare for when Mrs Zeb _(who knows nothing of such technicalities, and shows no inclination to learn :roll: )_ switches on the 2Kw heater, puts the kettle on and chucks a pie in the microwave . . . all at once, while I'm out with the dog!!

I'm not over-cautious about most things, but where Mrs Zeb is concerned I reckon if it can happen, it will! :lol: :lol:

Dave


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## rogerblack

Not only don't I use a reel, I don't even ever coil the cable over my arm - it stays random like a plate of spaghetti all the time! Mrs B has the job of stuffing it in the cupboard. One of the (many) wee jobs on my list is to make up a much shorter lead, to be used when the post is nearby, as it invariably is on club sites.

Didn't everyone do the stuff with 6 inch nails, coils of wire and 12V batteries at school? Probably against Elfin Safety regs these days . . . :roll:


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## Pudsey_Bear

The first thing I do if I buy an extension lead is to take it straight off the drum, we're all basically lazy and it's so easy to forget to pull it out, also I write on the socket end the max amps it can take as you forget after a while.


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## 113016

I learnt this the hard way when I was a young apprentice.
The lead was coiled up and set on fire  
Luckily it was outside on a canal wharf  

I just can't believe the number that see coiled up.
Don't people realize that is the way that electric fires are made.

Coils


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## Glandwr

Extension reels with thermal cutouts have been available for many years now.

Dick


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## blondy

*Electric cable*

I have also seen a reeled cable catch fire, I have mentioned this to many people but it is usually ignored. As has been said, always loop up the cable loosely, I use a reusable cable tie to hold it and almost have never 
Had a tangle, plus, it's easier than a reel and stores away easier as its flexible,plus why carry something extra?.


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## The-Cookies

1 site in particular we have used on east coast issues a warning that if he sees coiled up leads in winter ( extra power draw ) or awning heaters left unattended he will remove the lead from the hook up post .

cannot fault him more should do this.

John


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## Spacerunner

I leave my cable neatly wound up on the reel.
But for safety's sake I always stand the reel in a nearby puddle or stream.
Side effects is that we get free hot water! nfire:


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## peejay

eurajohn said:


> Whilst I'm not suggesting that anyone should ignore the advice given by all above, the level of danger is relevant to the amount of current being drawn. If only small amounts i.e. fridge, on board charger etc. are used then a negligible amount of heat will be generated, if using any type of heating appliance including kettles and ovens etc. it would be unwise to leave coiled.


I agree with John, when hooked up I usually leave my reel partially coiled, the only thing in our van that takes direct mains power is the fridge and battery charger along with occasional use of a low wattage kettle.

Pete


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## Midnightrambler

The other danger that worries me, is when a pitch has been tempoarily vacated, I have seen the motorhome end of the cable open to the elements yet it is still plugged into the hook up socket.
Isn't this as bad?
Alan


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## Bill_H

Spacerunner said:


> I leave my cable neatly wound up on the reel.
> But for safety's sake I always stand the reel in a nearby puddle or stream.
> Side effects is that we get free hot water! nfire:


Free hot water!, I'll get a suitable sized bucket to put it in tomorrow.

Trouble is I made my own EHU cable up and used 4mm cables which being over-sized for the job, don't produce any heat when coiled, so should I go get an off-the-shelf 1.5mm coiled EHU cable so that I can benefit from this 'free'* heat

* the heat's not free, you are paying to heat that thin EHU roll up. Make up a thicker one to reduce both the heating risk and electricity loss.


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## tude

*Cables*

Hangon guys this problem as I read it is not the ehu cable it's a extension lead in the awning.ive seen extension leads all over the place in awnings my mate does it all the time lamps microwave heaters all plugged in off one extension lead not your ehu cable thanks tude


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## grizzlyj

Regarding winding the cable up;

I've spent the last hour trying to find a Youtube video showing a rodeo dude coiling his rope at huge speed, then slowed down how to do it with no kinks, but I can't sorry 

You'll have to put up with my explanation. The problem with winding around your forearm is you are putting a twist in each time you loop.

So, when coiling up your hook up cable, always start at the same end. Hold the plug in one hand, the cable in the other, and extend your arms apart till you have maybe 4' between them. Bring them back together and watch which way the dangling 4' section wants to twist. Whichever way it goes let it. One loop done, putting that into the first hand. Second hand slides another 4' down the cable, comes back to the first letting the cable twist whichever way the existing twists want.

Carry on until its done. A bit or rope, or a reusable cable tie type thing to hold it as a coil for storage.

If you do that a few times the cable gets less cranky. The video I wanted showed a new rope coiled putting one coil on one side, the following one on the other, so it goes twist untwist twist untwist etc.

Unwinding is, strangely, the reverse, but if you don't start unwinding the same way it'll get a mess again. So if you finished at the campsite end winding up, unwind from there next time, letting one loop drop off your coil at a time.

Simple (ish!) I bought a reel to wrap it around, but what I now do is easier and quicker


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## aldra

When we were in Germany this year I think that cables wound out only to the length needed were predominant

We always fully extend ours

We did also notice that most of the vans had a much thinner cable than us

Would that make a difference to safety?

Aldra


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## Zebedee

Yep - Grizzlyj's method for me too. :wink: 

Then grip the coils at opposite sides, twist and fold into a coils half the diameter for easier storage . . . after securing with an elastic loop and a nifty little duffel coat toggle (permanently attached to one end).

No tangles, and if it's muddy you hold a bit of old rag in your free hand and slide it along the cable as you make the loops. 8) 

Dave


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## rotorywing

A lot of people on the continent are used to 6amp circuits, so they use smaller cable


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## DABurleigh




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## hiddenseven

Grizzlyj's method for us too and we always have an old towel in hand to wipe clean as we go.
Also connect to m/home first then lay out cable around the back/side of van then connect to post. We do the reverse when disconnecting.

Important Question:

In winter, when on EHU at home, (to charge the batteries) I fully uncoil the cable and plug into domestic socket. I then cover the exposed cable with the grey foam insulation tubes (used to cover copper water/heating pipes in houses). This is to protect the cable from the elements..sun & frost etc.

My question is, could this be a potential fire hazard? No other load is placed on the cable other than to charge the batteries.

Hiddenseven


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## grizzlyj

DABurleigh said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd9t47sCHAQ


Thanks for that, but he still ends up with it looking a mess! And "Once it gets﻿ hard, go ahead and grab it", plus having a hanging loop on the demo man?!?!

No way near as cool as the one I was looking for though, so fast your hook up cable would be smoking after you unplugged it


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## Zebedee

hiddenseven said:


> My question is, could this be a potential fire hazard? No other load is placed on the cable other than to charge the batteries.


Hi

In my opinion, there's no fire hazed at all since the load would always be minimal.

I don't bother since I have a spare EHU cable for use at home, and it has been in unprotected use for 8 years now, summer and winter.

It shows no sign of deterioration, so I think it's probably un-necessary to protect it as you do?? :?:

Since you raise the concern, I would be interested to hear a professional opinion.

Dave


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## steco1958

Zebedee said:


> Quite so Gerry, and that's why I would never use a reel of any kind. Leaving those partly wound is really asking for it! 8O
> 
> I coil mine by hand, then if we are fairly close to the supply I lay the remaining coils on the floor by the van and spread them a bit, so the coils are not laying directly on top of each other.
> 
> That's adequate to ensure the heat does not build up, and it's easy enough to gather up the coils when you leave.
> 
> Dave


Dave,
I always use a reel, however I never leave a tail for me to plug the lead into the MH. this ensures I have to fully un-wind the cable to be able to plug in if using EHU.

Steve


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## tonyt

Zebedee said:


> .....................Since you raise the concern, I would be interested to hear a professional opinion.Dave


I'm no electrician either but I would've thought that covering with foam pipe lagging may introuce a greater risk of shorting - albeit low level risk? That foam must absorb and hold water?


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## Zebedee

tonyt said:


> I'm no electrician either but I would've thought that covering with foam pipe lagging may introuce a greater risk of shorting - albeit low level risk? That foam must absorb and hold water?


Never tested it Tony so I don't know, but I think it's closed cell foam so there shouldn't be a problem with water absorption.

Can't see how it's much different to draping the cable through a puddle though?

An interesting point raised by Hiddenseven. :wink:

Dave


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## loddy

When the cable is wound isn't it the magnetic field it creates that causes the heat ?, if a cable is straight and of the correct size insulation on it should cause no problem.

Mine cable is too thick to wind, it will carry 50 amps though

Loddy


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## sallytrafic

No the magnetic fields are not the problem, heat in the buried coils is.

Cables fully wound are derated by around 50% so a 16A cable could take 8A fully wound assuming a low ambient temperature. Cables are rated so that the temperature increase when carrying full current is low enough for the insulation to cope with. Cables are also derated when burying them in wall insulation or bundling them on cable tray etc. 

So you can get away with it but why risk it.


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## spatz1

my only memory of cables and heat build up are from the part p electrical course and i remember being suprised at the temperatures they run at when not overloaded and hence why they shouldnt be burried in insulation or the likes of ...

Is nt there a minimum temperature they can be fitted at to prevent damage when installing due to the rigid nature they take on ??


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## provencal

*Another Risky Area?*

As a fervent domestic vacuum cleaner operator, I am often amazed at the temperature of the coiled up lead in our Henry. After a longish session it is quite hot and perhaps in future it would be a good idea to start at the furthest point and work back towards the socket.

Brian


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## eurajohn

Not wishing to dis-regard all of the theory and opinion already quoted. To fully understand the likely danger of using a coiled extension lead a detailed risk assessment should be carried out, taking into account the size of the cable, the length of the uncoiled section, what it is wound on and the likely full load and duration of said load, only then would it be possible to safely decide upon your actions.
In reality most extensions will be of a 3 core twisted construction which will negate electro magnetic issues. 
Any cable carrying current will generate heat, how much will depend on the size and length of the cable and the current carried, be it straight or coiled, the problems occur when using the cable near its capacity and coiled into a nice heat retaining bundle, this will cause a failure of the insulation and live and neutral will come into contact with one another and destruction will ensue.

Don't use coiled cable!! (although I invariably do as I understand the risks of doing so).


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## Glandwr

Why not use a reel with a thermal cutout. Not only safe when fully wound but experience will tell you (when you have to go out and reset it) the sorts of load you can handle wound, half wound, quarter wound etc.

Dick


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## SpeedyDux

I came across a similar tragic report of a fatal fire involving an itinerant construction worker sleeping in an old MH. The French police investigation doesn't seem to have reached a definite conclusion regarding the cause of the fire, but the theory is that an electrical problem involving the coiled EHU lead lying in wet grass may have started it. See:

http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/11/23/un-homme-brule-vif-560254-4720.php

SD


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## provencal

I can't see where you obtained the "coiled EHU lead" detail from. Your reference says a simple electric wire.

Brian


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## blondy

There is some form of energy coming from all cables, I have a volt stick which shows a light if the cable is live, Also years ago while heating a very large house, we had sparks comming from the copper pipes when
Connecting to earth, ie, boiler.
On checking,the sparks had laid cables along side the pipes on a long length, he removed cables, no more problem.


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## Broom

Hi All

I will tell you of an experience I had over 40 years ago with coiled flexible leads, granted for an electric welding kit not an extension lead.

I was working in Northern Territory of Australia at a Blue Metal Crushing Plant, (Road Chippings). After completing some welding on a face shovel outside our Workshop I coiled the flexible welding cables up carried them inside the workshop and threw them on top of a metal tool box. I then carried on welding on a bench, unknown to me the explosive expert (Blaster) came in to the workshop to get some chilled water from the fridge, in-doing so he attempted to put his bag containing detonators and explosives on top of the tool box in the middle of the cables while I was still welding.

The detonators exploded, luckily the explosives didn't and the bag absorbed most of the blast, we were extremely lucky to come out of that one generally OK.

Just shows what can happen with coiled cables.

Best Regards
Broom


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## Scattycat

While sorting out an old barn where I store loads of kit I now rarely use I came across a 40m extension lead wound around a plastic reel.

Having read all the comments on this thread it was interesting to read the label on the side of the reel that stated it was safe to use up to 3000 watts loading if completely unwound but safe to use up to 1500 watts if left wound on the reel. 

So on that basis I don't think it's worth worrying too much about leaving cables wound up if all you are doing is charging your batteries, especially if you have bought a dedicated cable from a motor home retailer because they use a much higher rated cable than my "hobby" extension lead :dontknow:


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## DABurleigh

The campsite 'elf & saf't brigade often take me to task with my mains cable coiled up. 

Nothing I can say will make them believe I am anything other than a selfish moron risking Armageddon, so I guess we both have the satisfaction of knowing we're right 

Dave


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## TR5

blondy said:


> There is some form of energy coming from all cables, I have a volt stick which shows a light if the cable is live, Also years ago while heating a very large house, we had sparks comming from the copper pipes when
> Connecting to earth, ie, boiler.
> On checking,the sparks had laid cables along side the pipes on a long length, he removed cables, no more problem.


It is for exactly that reason that it is illegal, within the Gas Safety Regulations, to route cables along and within 100mm of, or clip them to, copper gas pipes.

I carry 3 mains hook-up cables, one of 8mtres, one of 15 mtres and one of 25 mtres, and use whichever will reach the hookup point with the shortest length of cable used.


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