# Does Biomagic work in your loo, yes/no.



## erneboy

Hello, 

Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a poll simply asking 'Does Biomagic work in your loo'. I ask this because I have been reading and contributing to a tread on the topic and experiences vary, some say it does and some say it doesn't. A simple poll might be informative. 

I do not know how to set up a poll or do the administrators do that, Regards, Alan


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## 107088

You may not be able to do this now, 'cos I answered , but when you did your thread, at the bottom of the oage somewhere is a box which goes through the poll thing.....

just for info, I never used bio magic....


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## artona

Hi

You would not use it in an RV or maybe not in a European with a sog but if your motorhome has not got a "smell clearer" system then Biomagic is very good. Wherepeople can go wrong is to use a chemical as well which stops the breaking down process so the answer is

No there has not been a poll as far as I know but

Yes it does work if used correctly



stew


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## erneboy

Hi, 

Erneboy again, I have tried setting up a poll asking 'Does Biomagic work in your loo' with a simple yes/no answer but have not been able to, afraid I am not very good with computers, can any interested person please help, preferably set up the poll, thanks in advance, Alan.


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## hilldweller

artona said:


> Yes it does work if used correctly
> stew


That's good news, I bought 5l at Lincoln.

There was enthusiasm and honesty about the guy flogging it.

I've just dumped some down the sink, try and make the grey waste a bit more pleasant.


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## 88781

We struggled with the Biomagic, however we find the Carasept more efficient 

Dave


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## Bagshanty

we couldn't get it to work. When we mentioned it to a Biomagic seller at a show, he said it works if you add LOTS of water. But as that fills the loo up before you start, that's pretty pointless.

SOG IS the only solution that works.


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## Pusser

I use it for all the habitation orifices and works fine in the cassette. I use a SOG as well plus airfreshner, medical wipes, Johnsons furniture polish wipes, cheap bog roll and a squirt of aftershave prior to me leaving the bathroom. 

The resulting smell reminds me of place I used to go to not far from Bugis Street in Singapore but the name escapes me.


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## nukeadmin

> reminds me of place I used to go to not far from Bugis Street in Singapore but the name escapes me.


lol Pusser, only you (and any other Ex RN types will know that street  )
I of course may have visited Singapore but would never have been to that street and instead you would have found me in Raffles


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## artona

Hi

Raffles - yer right, never really saw you as being elegant Nuke :lol: :lol: 


stew


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## nukeadmin

well lets just say during my 3 week AMP stopover (Assisted Maintenance Period) at Singers, I may have visited Bugi street and I def visited Raffles for High Tea and Singapore Slings


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## nukeadmin

for those who are in the dark about >Bugi Street<


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## 92859

*odorless*

Greetings,

We have used the Odorless granules for some time now and they seem to work with no nasty wiffs!

Can't use the blue stuff as the fumes from the chemicals cause me problems.


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## Spacerunner

I've tried Biomagic in a clean, chemical-free cassette and all I got was a pong so great even the dog threatened to leave home. I now use Kem Direct which works well.

Sogs are ok if you visit the emptying point on your own, at three in the morning and have a gas respirator!!


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## peedee

nukeadmin said:


> lol Pusser, only you (and any other Ex RN types will know that street  )
> I of course may have visited Singapore but would never have been to that street and instead you would have found me in Raffles


Not totally true Nuke, I know both places, including the swimming club (Britannia Club) opposite Raffles entrance. Bugi Street is of course only by reputation! 

Getting back to Bio Magic, I think you will find it is ok in summer but not so good in winter, least that is my experience.

peedee


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## CLS

Bio magic is CRAP :lol:


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## Pollydoodle

CLS

In our experience it certainly doesnt deal with it!! :roll: - but others swear by it :roll:


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## clianthus

We didn't find Biomagic any use in the loo, use Kem Direct now much better.

We have recently had a problem with the grey waste tank smelling after we've emptied it, putting Biomagic in there has stopped it.


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## 94639

We have been using BioMagic for 2 years now, in the height of summer and in the depths of winter. We have not had any problems or nasty smells, just follow the instructions on the BioMagic website. Ensure your cassette is clean and free of any traces of other chemical based products, make sure that there is enough water in the cassette to cover any waste.
Smells will not travel through water, but if waste is not fully covered it will get a bit niffy. Giving the cassette a shake now and then agitates the waste and helps the breakdown process.
Works for us, we have no intention of changing to another product.


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## Spacerunner

brisey said:


> We have been using BioMagic for 2 years now, in the height of summer and in the depths of winter. We have not had any problems or nasty smells, just follow the instructions on the BioMagic website. Ensure your cassette is clean and free of any traces of other chemical based products, make sure that there is enough water in the cassette to cover any waste.
> Smells will not travel through water, but if waste is not fully covered it will get a bit niffy. Giving the cassette a shake now and then agitates the waste and helps the breakdown process.
> Works for us, we have no intention of changing to another product.


So if you have to well cover the waste with water and shake the cassette, what exactly does the Biomagic do?
It doesn't stop the smell and urine is a very effective means of breaking down solid waste.
Might as well use nothing as some do.


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## gaspode

Hi erneboy

I've added a poll for you, apologies that none of the mods have done it earlier, it's been a very busy day. :roll:


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## RichardnGill

We are interested in giving Kem Direct a try especially as we a off to France soon (I take it is ok for all disposal points?). But the only place I can find it is Here and it seems quiet expensive with postage.

Is there any where else it is aviable?

Richard..


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## Spacerunner

RichardnGill said:


> We are interested in giving Kem Direct a try especially as we a off to France soon (I take it is ok for all disposal points?). But the only place I can find it is Here and it seems quiet expensive with postage.
> 
> Is there any where else it is aviable?
> 
> Richard..


Thats why its called Kem *Direct* . The only place I have been able to get it is at motorhome shows, where I get a good stock in.


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## Pusser

Yep Bugis Street where the he was put into she. The ninth wonder of the world. A place where boys could be boys and boys could be girls. Not sure where girls went.


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## Bagshanty

Pusser said:


> Yep Bugis Street where the he was put into she. The ninth wonder of the world. A place where boys could be boys and boys could be girls. Not sure where girls went.


.... they were in the bag shanties...


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## erneboy

Thanks Gaspode, sorry for the delay in thanking you. We have been away and had no web access. Interesting results, around 50/50. Rather strange that it works so well for some and not at all for others. I see all the recommendations about using clean/new cassettes and sufficient water to cover waste etc. I too did all that and found Biomagic completely ineffective, Erneboy.


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## 100127

nukeadmin said:


> well lets just say during my 3 week AMP stopover (Assisted Maintenance Period) at Singers, I may have visited Bugi street and I def visited Raffles for High Tea and Singapore Slings


When were you there Nuke as I was there and Borneo in 1965-66 on active service? Ps been down that street, tried to sell one of our mates....nearly worked.

Bob


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## homenaway

Hi,
have used Biomagic in the past with mixed results especially in very hot weather.

This year I've tried the new Elsan Organic (using one of the many £2 off coupons in their magazine ads) and have found it to be as effective - provided you are driving around to stir things up and empty it every two or three days.

Steve


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## 114772

AS WITH ANYTHING THAT IS WORTH DOING, USING A BIOLOGICAL TOILET FLUID IS WORTH TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON.
THERE ARE MANY NEW BIO FLUIDS NOW COMING ON TO THE MARKET, EVEN ELSAN AND THETFORD HAVE JUST LAUNCHED AN ORGANIC AND A NATURAL TREATMENT. BOTH OF THESE HAVE DONE THIS BECAUSE TREATMENTS SUCH AS BIOMAGIC AND ODORLOS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS HAVE STARTED TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE MARKET. THE PROBLEM WITH ALL BIO TREATMENTS THOUGH IS THAT THEY REQUIRE A BIT MORE THOUGHT TO GET THEM TO WORK FOR YOU. YOU CAN'T JUST SLOSH IT IN AND HOPE FOR THE BEST. ITS BEST TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS OR BETTER STILL VISIT THE WEBSITES TO SEE WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO USE THE PRODUCTS. WE HAVE USED BOTH BIOMAGIC AND ODORLOS IN OUR RV FOR TWO YEARS AND WOULD NOT CONSIDER USING ANYTHING ELSE.

THEBIOMAN


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## sallym

just tried biomagic for the first time, after following a thread on here for a while, and it seemed to work fine, without the horrible chemical smell.


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## Yeti

Hi all
We use the italian version of Biomagic and it works very well, being a Chief Engineer at sea have amassed a great deal of experience with sewage plants and systems, Follow the instructions and it will work !!

Incidentally was thrown out of Raffles New Years Eve 1966 having consumed a surfeit of Singapre Slings when a Stoker on the Victorious mmmm

Rgds The Yeti


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## Minerva

Hi Yeti
That's a pretty good claim to fame, being thrown out of Raffles but I don't think anyone has ever been thrown out of Bugis St (the old one). Was there in 62 and then used to take the missis there on Sat nights for a laugh when we were there 67 - 69, the good times.

Can't make my mind up on Biomagic yet

Bill


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## FROGGY

Hi Folks,

I have not been on the site for a while but I now find there is a lot of talk about BioMagic. When I first joined this website, I tried to help people out with problems that they may have had using BioMagic, however, since I am connected with the company, the moderator removed all my replies.
I understand that this may now have changed and while I have no wish to promote the product, I think it only fair that I should have the right to reply when someone bad mouth's the product.

What I would like to do is for people to contact me directly if they have problems so we can get to the bottom of what is wrong, instead of telling the whole world that the product is no good. Anyone can reach me at [email protected] and I will do my level best to help.

The plant in California that produces this product is currently making 70000-US Gallons a day so there are a lot of people using it worldwide. The UK is a very small market compared to the USA, Canada, Oz, NZ, South Africa and Holland, where it is used not only in RV's but to treat major waste water treatments projects and now it is being used by dairy and pig farmers to overcome their odour problems and produce more nutricious meadows.

It is not a con or a rip off as some have suggested but a very scientific blend of nutrients and nitrates that will provide an abundance of oxygen only accessible to facultative bacteria. It has over 30-times more potential oxygen than any other product available today. If anyone wants to know what it is made of, this can be found on the website and is no secret but it does have a worldwide patent which is held by Janice Alfry in California.

Janice is a microbiologist and understands what is going on at the bacterial level better than most. Biomagic is one of the worlds most enviromentally safe products and is 100% biodegradable over a very short time. You have to remember that even radio active waste is biodegradable eventually, like thousands of years. BioMagic biodegrades within hours and benefits nature by modifying the bacteria in the soil to produce healthier plant life.

A derivative of BioMagic is now being used as a soil conditioner and is known as Unloc. The farming effluent treatment is also a new derivative and this is sold as Ensol. Both are described on the Biomagicuk website. Any doubting people please read the information available on that site, I guarantee you will not find more information available on any other toilet fluid in the world, so we're not trying to con people or hide the ingredients from you. We don't need to, it is very good stuff. If Biomagic is not working for you, we can find out why so just contact me at the email address [email protected]

Good luck and happy camping

Alex.


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## erneboy

Froggy, I do not who you mean when you suggest that people are bad mouthing the product. I hope you are not referring to me. I did try it and I did have a problem with it. I simply posed the question 'Does it work for you'. As you can see the results are interesting, around 50/50 for those who have tried it. 

The reason I asked was that I would prefer to be green even if it does cost more. If you read my previous posts you will find that I followed the directions. If you have any suggestions please feel free to tell me here. I may not be able to reply for a while as I am away at the minute and only have internet access from time to time, Regards, Alan.


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## sallytrafic

I'm a natural skeptic (I didn't say septic - pusser) and I have to say that I am still not completely convinced although its what I use.

First of all solids are very quickly decomposed without too much smell. The problem is urine. When we are touring around or in a campsite the tendency is to 'dump' our solids in public toilets rather than use the on board facilities so what happens is it fills up with urine rather than sh1t and I'm convinced its the pee that smells worse when left a day or so. 

The test that is crying out to be done is put a piece of human stool in water and another piece in biomagic solution and observe the result scientifically, just can't bring myself to do it. 

When my stock of biomagic was spilled and someone gave me a bottle of a modern blue I noticed that blue was rubbish at disguising poo but it worked really well on urine.


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## Cherekee

Hi Sallytraffic,

Rather then use man/women no 2's try it with a shovel full of new horse manure in a bucket of treated and in a bucket of plain water in the other and you will find it does work. I tried it in the garage at home to convince myself when I first started using it 2 years ago. It will breakdown the solid but obviously not the straw. A convert ever since.

Cheers

Alan


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## FROGGY

*BIOMAGIC? WHY IT WAS DEVELOPED!*

FOR ALL THOSE WHO MAY BE INTERESTED IN HOW AND WHY BIOMAGIC WAS DEVELPPED AND HOW IT CAN HELP IN THE DIGESTION OF HUMAN OR ANIMAL WASTE INTO PLANT AVAILABLE NUTRIENTS, HERE IS AN EXTRACT FROM THE INVENTOR AND PATENT HOLDER'S NOTES. 
Janice Alfry of BioMagic Inc. California. USA

HOW BioMagic WORKS AND WHY THE PRODUCT WAS DEVELOPED

Nature provides us with a system to convert the waste products of humans and animals into materials that plants need to grow and produce the food source that are required to sustain life. In a very simplified definition of nature's cycle, various forms of facultative bacteria are a part of the digestive system. Facultative bacteria can live in two conditions or states. The job assigned to the facultative bacteria along with support bacteria is to convert waste into plant food. Facultative bacteria can live and do the job assigned by nature in two defined conditions.

Anaerobic or the septic state is the condition where the bacteria do not have a readily available source of oxygen, (such as in the digestive system of humans and animals). The anaerobic state also exists out of the digestive system in un-aerated concentrations of waste such as a septic tank or any type of sewage holding tank.

Aerobic state is the condition where the bacteria have a readily available source of oxygen, such as from air or from compounds that can supply the bacteria with the oxygen necessary to produce and maintain the aerobic state. The aerobic state is waste decaying in the forest or an open field without producing odours. 
Clear streams, the ocean, a clean lake or pond, are examples of the aerobic state of decomposition.

In the anaerobic state bacteria must obtain the oxygen needed to survive by utilising the oxygen in various compounds in the biomass. Because the oxygen is not readily available, the bacteria work around this by producing enzymes. The enzymes allow the various available compounds to be reduced to release the oxygen contained in the various molecules so that the bacteria can use it.
The basic by-products of the anaerobic bacterial process are sulphides, ammonia gas, and methane gas. Small quantities of sulphides will produce Hydrogen Sulphide gas (H2S). The H2S gas is a particularly nasty product. The bad smell of H2S gas serves to warn humans of the danger. H2S gas mixed with moisture or water forms Sulphuric Acid.

Sulphuric acid destroys the odour sensing nerves in the human odour detection system and also destroys the ability of the lungs to absorb oxygen. The corrosive acid will dissolve metal, concrete and just about any structure or equipment that it contacts.
H2S gas in concentration is deadly to humans and animals, it is explosive and has been shown to cause irreparable damage to the human neurological system.

Aerobic bacteria or bacteria with a readily available source of oxygen do not have to do (a work around to survive) and have been found to be many times more effective at digesting waste. It has been shown that aerobic bacteria can achieve in as little as 6 to 8 hours what anaerobic bacteria would take over 60 days to achieve. In the aerobic state production of sulphides, ammonia and methane is eliminated and the bacteria produce only small quantities of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) and Nitrogen gas (N2) as well as the nutrients required by plants.

To Sum up: the aerobic state digests much more waste than the anaerobic state and produces no toxic by-products such as H2s.

HYPER ACTIVITY

BioMagic products have the ability to supply more oxygen than is normally available in nature. The super-oxygenated condition creates what is described as hyper activity in the aerobic bacteria. We do not have data to quantify the benefits of the hyper activity, but it is commonly acknowledged that the hyper active aerobic condition should or could digest more waste and do it faster than the normal aerobic condition.
The concept behind the development of BioMagic products was to be able to accelerate the conversion of a biomass to the aerobic state, without the necessity of spreading the biomass out over a large area for contact with air. Or mechanically pumping air into the biomass, which some sewage systems use.
The proprietary formula of BioMagic products supplies a safe and easy to apply source of oxygen to a biomass to obtain the benefits of the aerobic state.
The oxygen in BioMagic products causes two reactions when added to a biomass.

INSTANT ODOUR ELIMINATION

This is the one of the greatest advantages of using BioMagic. 
The instant odour or elimination of the H2S is accomplished via a chemical reaction. The oxygen in the BioMagic reacts with the sulphides to reduce the sulphides to non-smelly compounds and/or elements.
The more sulphides in the biomass, the more BioMagic is required to reduce the sulphides. Misting BioMagic products in H2S laden air instantly eliminates the H2S. Adding BioMagic products to a H2S producing biomass will instantly eliminate the odour.
AEROBIC STATE

The second action of the oxygen in BioMagic products is to produce the aerobic state in the biomass. The biological reaction does not happen instantly it can take about twenty minutes to hours. The conversion time is a function of parameters of the biomass.
BioMagic products are formulated with compounds that provide as rapidly as possible conversion to the aerobic state and a long-term component that provides a longer lasting oxygen releasing action.
BioMagic products have the minerals bacteria need to accelerate growth and digestive capabilities.

HARMFUL OR HAZARDOUS COMPOUNDS IN BioMagic OR THAT REMAIN IN THE BIOMASS AFTER BACTERIAL ACTION

1...Harmful or Hazardous material NONE
2...Residue or residual compounds after bacterial action. NONE

When BioMagic products are added to a biomass it's the equivalent of supplying oxygen by aeration. The big advantage of using BioMagic products is that the amount or quantity of oxygen available to bacteria may be set by the dosing rate to about the same as good aeration. By increasing the dosage more oxygen can be made available to bacteria than is possible through aeration. 
Grossly over dosing with BioMagic can supply oxygen levels high enough to be classed as a killer of bacteria, IE a disinfectant.
BioMagic products supply oxygen in a liquid stable compound containing massive amounts of loosely associated oxygen molecules, loosely bound to nitrogen molecules. Bacteria are able to use the oxygen and the nitrogen is released as a gas.
The result of the action is that bacteria are supplied with more oxygen than is possible with aeration and the BioMagic product is totally consumed and/or released as a harmless odourless gas.

MIXING BioMagic WITH OTHER PRODUCTS

Chlorine bleach and other similar disinfectants will react with the BioMagic and produce less than desirable results.
1...In the concentrated state that BioMagic products are normally used, mixing a product that contains chlorine, (such as bleach), will produce a reaction, releasing gasses that are harmful.
2...Mixing highly diluted BioMagic products with chlorine products may not produce noticeable harmful gas or products. However, the disinfectants will eliminate the bacteria thereby eliminating the desirable properties of BioMagic.

3...Various chemical compounds are used to disinfect or kill bacteria. Many chemicals available for portable sewage systems, (as used in boats, RV and camping etc), will, when mixed with BioMagic products, render them totally ineffective.

4...Many disinfectants such as bleach and hydrogen peroxide have a short or limited effective time. Dosing a biomass with most disinfectants reduces or eliminates the bacterial action until the disinfectant is dissipated. When this happens the odour returns. BioMagic products remain effective until the bacteria use up all the oxygen supplied.

DETERMINING THE CORRECT DOSAGE OF BioMagic PRODUCTS

1...If the BioMagic product used is to primarily eliminate odours, and the biomass is not held nor has very low retention time, the dosage required is generally determined by the dissolved sulphides present in the biomass. The larger the amount of sulphides present, the more BioMagic product will be required, to neutralise it.

2...The quantity of sulphides in a biomass are generally determined by the state of the active bacteria and the age of the biomass. A highly anaerobic, high BOD biomass will produce undesirable quantities of sulphides, the longer it is allowed to age.

3...Dosing with a BioMagic product as close to the source and as soon as the biomass is generated is the most effective dosage method.

4...In conditions where longer-term odour control is desired, the retention time and the BOD of the biomass should be used to determine the dosage. Assuming that the initial dosage of the biomass eliminated the sulphides, dosing to maintain the aerobic condition so that new sulphides are not produced is determined by the BOD of the biomass and in general, the length of time the aerobic state is desired.

5...If a biomass is held in the aerobic state until the BOD is low, (like a mountain stream or a clear and clean pond), normal aeration will, in many situations, supply enough oxygen to retain the aerobic state. Adding waste to the stream or pond will increase the BOD and if the waste is more than normal aeration can handle, the biomass will become anaerobic or septic and starts producing sulphides.

AIRBORNE ODOURS

Misting a diluted BioMagic product into an air mass will allow the oxygen to react with H2S gas. The reaction chemically eliminates the H2S gas.
The smaller the droplet size of the BioMagic, the more effective it will be. Droplets of 2 or 3 microns tend to float and stay in the air longer than larger droplets but generally 10 microns is more effective enough.
Depending on the application, BioMagic products can be diluted up to 25:1 (or more), with water. 
The dilution ratio is a function of the concentration of the H2S in the air.
If the droplets are small enough they do not cause wetting of the ground or of any equipment in the protected area.
Tests have shown that misting diluted BioMagic products is not harmful to people working in the protected area. The EPA does not regulate the use of BioMagic's products.

BACTERIA AND ENZYMES

1...Human and animal waste is composed of bacteria cultivated in the digestive system and the material that is not used in the digestive system. It is commonly accepted that human and animal waste is about 50% bacteria by weight and 50% waste. Bacteria that are indigenous to the digestive system are the bacteria that reduce the waste back to plant nutrients.

2...Enzymes is natures system for breaking down compounds into elements that bacteria can utilise as nutrients and oxygen and allow them to perform the task of recycling waste. Anaerobic bacteria must produce enzymes to function. Adding an enzyme to a biomass reduces the work bacteria must perform to digest waste. Enzymes allow the bacteria to obtain oxygen from existing compounds but the quantity of oxygen available via the enzyme reaction is limited to the quantity and type of compounds available in the biomass.

3...Enzymes do work, but the addition of oxygen to the biomass by aeration or with BioMagic products is many, many times more effective in producing and maintaining the aerobic state. Oxygen available via an enzyme is limited and eventually no amount of enzymes will make any difference.
4...Using cultured bacteria and/or enzymes is generally not cost effective for achieving either accelerated digestion of waste or odour control.

SUMMARY

Nature has taken billions of years perfecting the cycle for controlling waste. Applying the principals of nature to control the massive volume of waste produced by humans and animals by using BioMagic products is, (until we get a lot smarter), the best available.


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## Spacerunner

We used to have a saying in the services to do with flannel and the physical properties of cows.

No matter how many long words and how technical the inventor's explanation is, it did not work for me, even if I followed the destructions precisely. :?


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## AndyCI

*Biomagic*

we have been using it since newark show 2007 and it doesn't work as shown at the shows but since we bought 5 litres we are using it up will not buy any more.
We are a family of 4 and the toilet gets very smelly within 24-36 hrs.

On emptying you can see that the waste hasn't broken down.

Any suggetions what else to try suitable for empying into septic tank would be appreciated.


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## Phil42

Have been using it for 2 years and convinced it works. Yes, you sometimes get an old urine smell but a small additional dose will sort it. 

I'd never go back to the conventional chemicals. They always remind me of the original Elsans - essentially a large bucket which smelled of the disgusting chemical AND the waste. As a kid, I never used one without experiencing 'splash back' and the smell would cling for ages, even if you were able to wash it off. 

Phil


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## Spacerunner

I am now using a product from Aldi. Its called Oxyfix and is an oxygen producing stain treatment. It works far better than Biomagic and only costs £1:49.
I have to empty the cassette slightly more often, approx 36 hours, but at that price no problem.


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