# Mystery current drain ?



## gaspode

Hi

My first post of many no doubt on the subject of Rapido. :roll: 

I seem to have a mystery current drain on the lighting circuit of the new 'van (2011 7066DF). What happens is that a current drain of 1.5 to 2 amps on the leisure battery is displayed on the control panel whenever the lighting circuit is activated. That's with all lights turned off and no other appliances running (AFAIK). If I turn off the lighting circuit at the control panel the current draw reduces to 0.5a (bear in mind that 0.5a is the minimum value that will register on the panel so current could be well below 0.5a).

I've tried withdrawing all the fuses one by one with the lighting circuit enabled but the 1.5 to 2.0amp drain still shows.

Any ideas?????


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## peribro

Aerial booster?


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## UncleNorm

boiler auto dump??


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## gaspode

Thanks for the ideas, both already eliminated I'm afraid.


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## Zebedee

Re-calibration of panel . . . but why only when the lighting circuit is activated?

Would have expected a false reading all the time if calibration was required. (_No expert, but first hand experience_.)

Dave :?:


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## wakk44

Is the control panel calibrated to zero with all the 12 volt appliances switched off?If not it could be possible you are getting an inaccurate reading.

Our friends bought a new Rapido last year and have been unable to figure out how to do it and a well known dealer from Newark have been as much use as a chocolate fireguard :roll: 

The best way to check the current drain is to remove the -ve leisure battery terminal and connect an ammeter in series(battery post to -ve lead).This would prove whether the Rapido control panel is accurate.

I am not sure if the radio is fed by the leisure battery,if it is then make sure you have the code before doing this.

edit;Zeb beat me to it-must type faster


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## sallytrafic

When you say activate the lights is that like a master switch for all the lights? Can you turn the actual lights off whilst enabled. Reason I ask is that my micro controller draws extra current once the lights are on due to relays on the dc distribution board. Only an extra 200mA though. 

My other thought is I used to have a 2d lamp fitting that would draw current without being on.


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## drcotts

The control panel itself needs some current.
Have you considered this


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## rayc

Ken, mine is different. The control panel switched ON and all other switches OFF the reading is zero. Switch the Lamp switch ON at the control panel, with all lights switched OFF, and reading is -0.5A. I put it down to the relay in the DC distribution box which activates when the lights are selected ON and the panel meter being calibrated in 0.5a steps. Ray


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## gaspode

wakk44 said:


> The best way to check the current drain is to remove the -ve leisure battery terminal and connect an ammeter in series(battery post to -ve lead).This would prove whether the Rapido control panel is accurate.


That'll be the next step I think, but as Zeb says, because the current disappears once the light circuit is turned off, calibration errors seem unlikely.



wakk44 said:


> I am not sure if the radio is fed by the leisure battery,if it is then make sure you have the code before doing this.


That's a thought I had too so I've checked the feed wires into the radio and they all seem to be from the engine battery. Not that I can eliminate this entirely because the so-called radio (sorry - entertainment unit) is a complete nightmare to operate, that's the next item on the agenda. :evil:

Ray - which control panel is on yours? Mine is the CBE version which in my experience is usually quite good.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, keep them coming.


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## rayc

Ken, this one (CBE)


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## Rosbotham

Light you don't realise you have? E.g. anything in any of the lockers/garage etc? Is there an awning light that could be illuminating without you realising?


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## rayc

Ken, there is a 'calibration procedure' that may work, though (NC) for amperemeter is worrying !!!
To enter the programmation menu turn on the control panel with the switch ref. 5 while keeping pushed
the buttons ref. 2 and 3.
The progammation is sequential: to shift to the next parameter push the button ref. 1.
1. Voltmeter B1. With the buttons ref. 2 and 3 one can modify the displayed value in 0,2V steps
2. Voltmeter B2. With the buttons ref. 2 and 3 one can modify the displayed value in 0,1V steps
3. Amperemeter B2 (N.C).
4. Internal temperature. With the buttons ref. 2 and 3 one can modify the displayed value in 0,5°C steps
5. External temperature. With the buttons ref. 2 and 3 one can modify the displayed value in 0,5°C steps
Pushing again the button ref. 1 you exit the programmation menu.

Switch 5 = Panel ON/OFF
Button 2 = Battery level switch
Button 3 = Fresh Water tank level 
Button 1 = Clock

Ray


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## WildThingsKev

As Rosbotham says; garage light or maybe one of the wardrobe lights is not switching off when closed.

The awning light and radio are from the vehicle battery.

I had to recallibrate my panel as RayC describes when I first got the van though I doubt this is your problem.


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## gaspode

Thanks for that Ray, I'd just read about it in the CBE book.
I think the next step is to connect an ammeter to check the "real" current, then I'll re-calibrate the panel.

Problem is that I have an alarm problem ATM so can't attack the discharge issue until the alarm is sorted. :roll: 

Do you have the Pioneer entertainment thingie fitted to yours? I can't get my head round the damn thing at all. :evil:


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## rayc

WildThingsKev said:


> As Rosbotham says; garage light or maybe one of the wardrobe lights is not switching off when closed.
> 
> The awning light and radio are from the vehicle battery.
> 
> I had to recallibrate my panel as RayC describes when I first got the van though I doubt this is your problem.


It would appear that Ken has mitigated that as he said "I've tried withdrawing all the fuses one by one with the lighting circuit enabled but the 1.5 to 2.0amp drain still shows".


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## rayc

gaspode said:


> Thanks for that Ray, I'd just read about it in the CBE book.
> I think the next step is to connect an ammeter to check the "real" current, then I'll re-calibrate the panel.
> 
> Problem is that I have an alarm problem ATM so can't attack the discharge issue until the alarm is sorted. :roll:
> 
> Do you have the Pioneer entertainment thingie fitted to yours? I can't get my head round the damn thing at all. :evil:


Ken, No, there was a Pioneer radio/cd player fitted but I removed it and fitted my Blaupunkt because I liked it. Incedentally the Pioneer was connected so that with the ignition OFF it was powered from the display panel AUX 1 output as is the Status antenna.
(When I replaced the radio I just taped up the connections from AUX 1 and connected the radio to the standard Fiat ISO connector. The radio now works of the vehicle battery when the inition is off and I am happy with it's 60 minute timeout). Ray


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## rayc

WildThingsKev said:


> .
> 
> The awning light and radio are from the vehicle battery.


Not on my 7090+. The awning light is fed from Fuse 11 of the DC control distribution. If I switch the LAMP control switch on the DC panel OFF, with the awning light ON, the awning lamp goes OFF.
The Pioneer radio that was fitted as standard was connected so that with ignition OFF it was powered from the AUX 1 output of the control panel.


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## WildThingsKev

rayc said:


> WildThingsKev said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The awning light and radio are from the vehicle battery.
> 
> 
> 
> Not on my 7090+. The awning light is fed from Fuse 11 of the DC control distribution. If I switch the LAMP control switch on the DC panel OFF, with the awning light ON, the awning lamp goes OFF.
> The Pioneer radio that was fitted as standard was connected so that with ignition OFF it was powered from the AUX 1 output of the control panel.
Click to expand...

Well that's odd. My awning light works with the control panel lamp switch off (but not the control panel itself off) so have always assumed it came from the vehicle battery; I thought I'd read it in the manual too but just checked and cannot find it so I may be wrong.

The radio (Pioneer), will run with the CBE panel completely off and if run for an extended period there is a voltage drop on the vehicle battery ammeter. (Aux 1 on mine is the tv booster and Aux 2 is redundant). Having just checked the manual; right at the very back it states your setup but in the electrics section it states that the sound equipment is powered by the vehicle battery (as per mine).

Different electricians or just small changes over the model years? Ours was built 12/07.

Kev


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## WildThingsKev

rayc said:


> WildThingsKev said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Rosbotham says; garage light or maybe one of the wardrobe lights is not switching off when closed.
> 
> The awning light and radio are from the vehicle battery.
> 
> I had to recallibrate my panel as RayC describes when I first got the van though I doubt this is your problem.
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear that Ken has mitigated that as he said "I've tried withdrawing all the fuses one by one with the lighting circuit enabled but the 1.5 to 2.0amp drain still shows".
Click to expand...

I think I have a funny on the lighting fuses, I can't remember exactly what but I think that there might be some lights on either no fuses or on 2 fuses, something odd.


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## gaspode

Hi again

The boss is allowing me a break for lunch ATM so here's an update.

Leisure battery disconnected, solar panel covered, digital volt and ammeters fitted, calibration completed (yes, the panel values were a bit adrift) residual current (actual) with panel turned off = 10ma. Panel turned on, residual current (actual) = 180ma, presumably panel power useage, panel (following calibration) now reads 0 amps - correct. When the light circuit is turned on (no lights in use) panel amps reading = 1amp but true current on ammeter still reads 180ma. 8O 

Conclusion - the odd reading on the panel is incorrect, possibly a panel inaccuracy? Not critical as long as you know about it but how is it happening?


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## rayc

gaspode said:


> Not critical as long as you know about it but how is it happening?


To answer that you really need a curcuit diagram of how the current flow is being measured. I still remember my training in 'shunts and multipliers' but I expect it is all old hat , propably now a chip with stepped values.


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## WildThingsKev

An answer at least! I've just checked my notes from 2 years ago and found similar. Under no load there was a drain of 90mA. With the panel lamp switch on drain was 140mA but the CBE panel showed 1A drain (after calibration).

The boiler dump valve accounted for 60mA of the above.


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## gaspode

WildThingsKev said:


> An answer at least! I've just checked my notes from 2 years ago and found similar.


Well fancy that, must be a generic problem. :roll: 
As I said earlier, not really a problem to live with just as long as you realise the reading is one amp out. Probably preferable to all the hassle of trying to get it fixed.

At least I know I'm not alone. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And on the subject of boiler dump valves, where the heck do I put my peg on this one, it's not got the pull-up button thingie? 8O


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## rugbyken

sorry to piggybackyour post ken but this mention of the boiler dump valve could explain my power drain where do i find it and how do i cancel it??? 
on a 2007 bessie e560


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## UncleNorm

Thank goodness for this comment Ken:



> And on the subject of boiler dump valves, where the heck do I put my peg on this one, it's not got the pull-up button thingie?


We've only had Our Coral for 4.5 years. On many occasions folk have advised that I use a peg to prevent the auto-dump from functioning. But our motorhome won't take a peg!! :evil: :roll:

To hold my BLUE button in place, I screwed a plastic block about 3 mm in front of it. I then push in a slim wedge between the block and the button. OK, so my dump is now manual!! I can manage with that. It's just like our previous MHs.  :wink:

Sorry to go off topic!


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## Zebedee

Hi Ken

Further to what Frank said a long way back, I wonder if your van is liberally sprinkled with relays. :roll:

Just had our van's habitation check, and while going over a couple of things I wanted looked at, the control panel was mentioned.

The techie fellow remarked that the Sargent EC325 panel that we now have is a great improvement over the previous system, which _"had relays all over the place so there was a constant drain on the battery to keep the bloody things open."_

Your system will be different, but could the drain be due to a number of relays drawing the juice??

Dave


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## gaspode

Zebedee said:


> Hi Ken
> 
> Further to what Frank said a long way back, I wonder if your van is liberally sprinkled with relays. :roll:
> Dave


No Dave, there are just a couple in the control panel, certainly not enough to draw one amp current. Anyway, I've now proved that the current draw is false, when the panel shows a discharge of one amp, an in-line meter only registers 180ma.

Norman - is your dump valve like mine, it has a blue twist lever on top and a button on the side?


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## UncleNorm

That's the one Ken. I drained down for the winter backend 2007 and could not reset for the New Year. It's never reset properly. If I had the time, I'd change it to a manual drain cock. In the meantime, as I said, I use a plastic wedge to hold the blue button in sufficiently. It works! :roll: :wink:


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## WildThingsKev

rugbyken said:


> sorry to piggybackyour post ken but this mention of the boiler dump valve could explain my power drain where do i find it and how do i cancel it???
> on a 2007 bessie e560


I don't think there is any way of canceling this as the power is taken without going through the control panels, it operates to save ruining a £1300 boiler. I remember that when I disconnected the leisure battery the dump valve (truma call it a "FrostControl") immediately released.

The drain I previously measured at 60mA would equate to 40A over a month so that is a considerable amount. I would imagine though that the current drain is considerably less once the valve is released/opened so if you are having battery problems it might be worth manually releasing it when you leave the van in storage. (perhaps a Leccy could confirm this?)

It will be located on the floor adjacent to the boiler (with wires and a hose to it) and is about the size of a small camera on end.

Kev


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## josieb

If you have a new van and the dump valve has the blue toggle at the top, it has no power to it.


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## gaspode

josieb said:


> If you have a new van and the dump valve has the blue toggle at the top, it has no power to it.


I did wonder Josie, I hadn't noticed any wires going to it - although TBH it hasn't come in for any close scrutiny yet. I'll take a closer look tomorrow and examine Norms idea of a wedge device on the button.

BTW, Jen will be picking your brain about where she can get an extra shelf for the oven. :wink:


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## UncleNorm

josieb said:


> If you have a new van and the dump valve has the blue toggle at the top, it has no power to it.


An interesting call about having no power to the dump valve. That's not Kev's experience, or mine for that matter...

Kev said: "_I remember that when I disconnected the leisure battery the dump valve (truma call it a "FrostControl") immediately released. _

I'm certain that I have some wiring running to the Frost Control. :?

*From the TrumaUK website: *

How confusing are these points...

*FrostControl - safety/drain valve*

FrostControl heating element (optional) Approx. 0,4 A

The current-free safety/drain valve empties the boiler automatically via a drainage socket if there is a risk of frost (i.e. at around 3°C)

Current-free operation discharges the on-board battery :?


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## gaspode

UncleNorm said:


> Current-free operation discharges the on-board battery :?


Maybe they use sultanas instead Norm? :wink:

Then again, it's Truma so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. :roll:


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