# Brakepad wear and the MOT



## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

My Volvo V70 car failed the MOT on Saturday because of 'less than 1.5mm pad material left on the rear brakepads'.

Now whilst I appreciate being informed of this by the testing garage I questioned whether the amount life left in the pads was relevent to whether it would constitute a failure on the day.

I as told it was part of the test and they wouldnt issue a pass until they were replaced. Which I did.

I have been looking on the net and cannot find a reference to the 
_quantity_ of pad material that would constitute a failure.

Anyone had this before?


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

1.5mm is a bit skinny and will not last very long in all fairness and the MOT is for 12 months.

Whilst I would agree that it should not be a fail on the day, it is in your interests to have them changed immediately.

Just my thoughts.

Peter


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

I agree Peter which is why I have changed them but my point is that I was given a failure notice on wear levels and I dont think there is such a requirement.

There is for brake efficiency and balance, but there was no suggestion either of those were at fault.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I've failed loads

Loddy


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

loddy said:


> I've failed loads
> 
> Loddy


Loddy you are an mot tester then?

Can you educate me and tell me how the level of pad material constitutes a failure please? And how you decide on that level?


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## kazzzy (Apr 9, 2006)

MOT testers manual section 3.5 unde3r mechanical brake components states as a reson for rejection (f) a brake lining or pad insecure or less than 1.5mm at any point.
So therefore IF the brake pad was 1.5mm then it should not have failed, it should only have failed if it was 1.49mm  
I do agree though that if they were that low from a safety aspect they should have been repalced although technically it should have been an advisory.


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## kazzzy (Apr 9, 2006)

Sorry just reread and you say yours were less than 1.5mm therefore it is correct and should have been a failure.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

The figure is 1.5 mm, but a very difficult thing to measure without dismantling, it is left to the testers eye, you can argue but if he hadn't failed it in 6 months you would have complained he hadn't done a good test.

Can't win us testers

Loddy


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

Annual MOT is a damn good idea in my book, surprising what faults can be found on what you think is a perfectly good car.

By the way I have to pay for my MOT's !!

Peter


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks very much Kazzzy and Loddy.

I'm not complaining about the testers as I said in the first post. I was just questioning whether there was a 1.5 mm requirement and you have confirmed that there is.

I was peed off when I took off the offside to find about 8mm left on them but the nearside pads were nearer 2mm and the caliper a bit stuck so needed renewing.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

IMO if I was mot'ing the car,I would want to make sure the brakes were safe and roadworthy for the next twelve months. It is all down to the Testers discretion and I would agree with your tester. You do need to be careful as there are a minority of places which would say somethong needs doing even if it dosen't as they are looking for work ( especially if it is a women who is the customer). At least it was just pads, if they had passed them 6 mnths down the line it may have needed discs as well. You don't really know until they are taken out.
Rich


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

In the last 2 years my car and van have both needed replacement brake disks due to corrosion. It seems that the life of the back brake disks is short compared with the life of the brake pads. The garage suggested that I don't brake hard enough and should find an empty stretch of road every week to do a very hard stop 8O . That should clean the surface rust off the brake disks before worse corrosion takes hold. 

I never had this problem until recently. I don't drive on my brakes because I try to drive gently for reasons of fuel economy and looking after my tyres. I don't use the gearbox for braking either. Is there something I should know about the quality of modern brake disks? Or has the MOT test been changed to be less tolerant of small amounts of corrosion on brake disks? :? 

SD


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

Hi Speedydux


> In the last 2 years my car and van have both needed replacement brake disks due to corrosion.


We are finding that a lot of rear brake discs are rusting and calipers seizing, this mainly on vehicles which have 2 year or 20,000 mile servicing.
Lin


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## 38Rover (Nov 9, 2006)

With so little material left it's not unknown under heavy breaking and heat build up for friction material to come away from metal plate I would not let mine go below 3mm


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

As far as brakes, steering and tyres are concerned, I would rather any garage aired on the side of caution, and be safe.

However, I also feel that *some* garages create work from the MOT test.

A Mazda garage gave my wife's car a cautionary notice stating a rear tyre was damaged/cracked and, I quote "dangerous" - in capitals.

I checked the tyre in question and found no evidence of any damage, I asked my local tyre fitter to check, he found no evidence of damage (the tread was fine), and the car has been through two more MOT's at the same garage, with the same tyres, with no notice whatsoever.

The car only does about 5k a year, so the treads are still well within tolerence, and is 3/4 of the way towards the third MOT!

I'm sure most MOT'ers are fair and honest, but situations like this does make you suspicious of malpractice at times!


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

Heavy braking will probably not even use the rear brakes. The brake compensating valve will restrict braking on the rear brakes under these conditions. If it did not you would probably experience a situation similar to a handbrake turn. The reason such a lot of rear brakes seize up is that the brake compensator hardly ever uses them. Applying them when stationary is one way of bringing them on and of course some handbrake systems will use them.


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi twinky.

Do you ever remove the road wheels and check the condition of one of the most important parts of your vehicle. I would be horrified to know i was driving with so little brake pad left. It should be a 6 monthly check it does not take long to do a check and could save yours or someone else's life

steve & ann. ------------ teensvan.


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

teensvan said:


> Hi twinky.
> 
> Do you ever remove the road wheels and check the condition of one of the most important parts of your vehicle. I would be horrified to know i was driving with so little brake pad left. It should be a 6 monthly check it does not take long to do a check and could save yours or someone else's life
> 
> steve & ann. ------------ teensvan.


No - I assume that if I take it in for service at the correct interval they would let me know about these things.

God knows it costs enough!!


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Costs nothing to do it yourself.


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## TR5 (Jun 6, 2007)

Traveller_HA5_3DOM said:


> Heavy braking will probably not even use the rear brakes. The brake compensating valve will restrict braking on the rear brakes under these conditions. If it did not you would probably experience a situation similar to a handbrake turn. The reason such a lot of rear brakes seize up is that the brake compensator hardly ever uses them. Applying them when stationary is one way of bringing them on and of course some handbrake systems will use them.


I agree entirely with the above.
I would hope no-one would but, one thing I would add is DO NOT apply the handbrake while moving, especially with an Alko chassis.


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

Good point TR5. My old Alko low line had a curious rear brake system with Disk brakes for the service brake and a small set of drum brakes inside the hub of the rear disk. This was classed as a parking brake and because of the wrapping action of the leading shoes came on with a real vengeance even if used when virtually stationary.


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## twinky (Aug 11, 2008)

The Volvo V70 has handbrake shoes inside the rear disc and is also prone to ripping the friction material off if you attempt anything resembling a handbrake turn.


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## Lunarvictim (Aug 15, 2009)

The tester is doing you a favour it would cost a lot more if the Discs need replacing or your brakes fail!! 
An MOT for drivers would be a good idea as well.


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## skiboycey (May 21, 2009)

I'm confused...

According to 'teensvan'

"I would be horrified to know i was driving with so little brake pad left. It should be a 6 monthly check it does not take long to do a check and could save yours or someone else's life"

And yet according to one of our other technical posters

"Heavy braking will probably not even use the rear brakes. The brake compensating valve will restrict braking on the rear brakes under these conditions" (an emergency stop)

Well if the rear brakes are barely used during an emergency stop I don't see how having low rear brake disk pads could 'save yours or someone else's life'? Such is the hysteria in modern England when anything involving safety is mentioned even in passing I suppose....

Incidentally as far as I know all modern rear brake disk systems use small handbrake shoes inside the main disk because it would be impossible to use the hydraulic circuit to hold the disk calipers on for any length of time due to micro leaks around the pistons so there has to be a way of blocking the rear wheels mechanically. This is why they are rubbish and don't work very well because they are acting on such a small radius on the inside of the disk. My Autotrail has rolled away twice when I've put the handbrake on at traffic lights (without incident as I noticed it after only a few inches of movement) and I wouldn't ever trust it for parking. I put it in gear whenever I leave it anywhere and this also stops the small brake shoes from 'welding' themselves to the rear disks if you leave it parked up for many months as is so often the case with Motorhomes...

Cheers, Mark


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