# MHF Campsite Database



## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Can I make a plea. For the MHF Campsite database to be any good it has to have a strong motorhome bias. I don't think any camping guide has this and therefore the MHF data base has the opportunity to be unique. Wild spots are mostly unique to motorhomes as are aires but I can see little point in making entries which add little if anything more to what you can find in most publications. 

Someone, and I cannot find the message without a lengthy search has already pointed out the advantages of highlighting good MV waste disposal points in the database, I would also like to see added to this, ground conditions and suitability for larger vehicles. No doubt others may have other ideas but I think we should keep entries motorhome orientated. Perhaps as a result we can have a check list compiled and posted as a guidance sticky. 

Couple this with the latest discount proposals and we can have a really useful db 

Plea over. 

peedee


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

Sounds good to me PD..However, I was thinking that the main purpose was more to help finance the site and the discounts help us so even if you could get a better deal from say ****e Sites Ltd, we would be putting something back into that which gives us entertainment the whole year, not to mention enormous help with probs such as PMT.

But a good database as you rightly say would be of tremendous benefits to all as would a comprehensive m\home database with reviews.

Ultimately, it may be possible to walk into a camping shop, show them the MHF card and get discounts on equipment too. Perhaps we could even get block trade discounts for the tunnels and ferry. 5000 motorhomes must be worth something to a large company.

Finally, I think someone needs to be permantly in charge of the database to keep it up to date as indeed the motorhome spec database. Nukes can't do it all. I'm prepared to do something but I don't know what I can do without cocking something up.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

peedee,

Funny you should say that. I was arguing with myself on and off the last couple of days over MHF's "handling" of "sites" and members' experiences of and comments about them. I was all fired up to have an internet chat with Dave about it, but he was obviously off enjoying himself somewhere and wasn't online.

In the end I succumbed to the present structure and this morning populated the site database with a CL and two commercial sites, noting some further bugs/wrinkles to talk to Dave about.

I'm still not sure what the "right" answer is, other than I don't think we currently have it. Just dreaming/ thinking out loud, I suppose my ideal would be to have a map like the jollyinteresting website integrated with a filterable structured database that includes members' comments (and in which case all of commercial, CC & C&CC sites, CLs & CSs, aires and wildcamping sites are fair game because one can select and "plot" just those in which one is interested), but also complemented by a separate forum (or fora split geographically) that encourages discussion on sites.

Dave


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Thought you would be swanning around in that new van of yours Dave, I assume you have it from your site reports? I'm booked in at Newton Mill after Easter, it was cheaper than the CC at Longleat and Baltic Wharf even though you say it is expensive.

Having recently posted some CLs to the database got me thinking too, perhaps it is best to let the post rattle back and forth a few days and see what comes out of it, then I guess it is up to Nuke to decide. 

peedee


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Good post peedee and a subject close to my heart as I have spent many an hour doing my bit and entering places we've stayed at.

I'd agree with your observations pd although there are already entries for 'hardstandings' and 'm/h friendly', but maybe it is time for a review of the options or even the format as some seem to duplicate themselves (m/h servicing point) and others not really relevant (m/h wash facilities), however maybe changing formats etc would possibly cause problems with the entries already in the d/base, who knows?

Also, perhaps a better title than 'campsites and wildspots database' , maybe 'motorhome stoppovers database' or something along these lines.

I also know that Dave has big plans for the database but i don't think its worth his effort unless more members take the time to enter maybe just a few sites each (there are currently just over 400 entries), I think we need to have at least over a thousand + to make it a viable search facility. If you look at the campingcar-infos site, I think most would agree their aires data base is second to none and with more input ours could be as good, if not better because it concentrates on a wider field. With a top notch database for m/home stopping places it can only encourage more members to the site.

Maybe a map of our country and other european ones split into different regions to click on similar to the campingcar-infos format, thats what i'd like to eventually see..


Finally, in an effort to try and encourage more entries, there is now a proforma in the downloads section which mirrors the 'add a wildspot' entry page. If everyone keeps a few copies in their glovebox and fills out the form as you visit each place, it will make it much easier to submit the info on your return, no excuse now, get them entries typed in!

pete.


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

It is not so much how you access information although this is important eventually but more about what is there in the first place. Think there is a need to get that right first then perhaps be concerned about the interface to the data.

It is sad that more don't contribute, It can be time consuming and I know we are not all retired but every little helps and you really will only get back what you put into it. After all if we all sat back and contributed zilch there would be nothing on this site.

peedee


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Hi Dave,

glad to see you've entered into the spirit of things and entered a few in the database, thats just whats needed....but not wanting to criticise....

A bit more info as to where the places are however, wouldn't go amiss.

perhaps a smidge more than "Mrs Johns CL in Devon" might help. :roll: 

pete.

reminds me of that old truck driver joke "Is this London mate, where d'you want this wood?"


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Suitably guilt-ridden, I have now gone to the van to get the reference books to fill in the bits I couldn't generate from memory! 

Dave


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

Hiya all
just had a little chat with Dave online

Here are the ideas that he and I have:-

Much improved GUI i.e. maybe something along the lines of a nice pretty and simple map of the world, you click on country then area down to something like a department or county etc - The problem with this is it is out of my skills range and I would need to outsource this to a Macromedia Flash designer probably which is expensive. I am going to get some quotes on this though.

Secondly what fields are required in the database ?
Are there any that should be added or any that are already in that are extraneous and should be removed ?
Bearing in mind the balance between lots of usefull information and the tediousness of entering it all !!

I think that the more sites / wild spots/ parking places etc in the database the better as long as they are relevant to motorhomers as it becomes a better resource, this is all based on the interface being improved to allow better filtering of the information.

Finally we need more INPUT, a few notable members have submitted maybe 80% of the entries between them but the vast majority of the members havent entered a single entry, as stated earlier in the thread without input from our members the resource is of no use, please take a second to simply enter just one entry in the site, ensuring that all the information is relevant and complete and the database as a whole would improve dramatically. 

As Peejay stated I wanted to see where this database would go before i allocated lots of time, effort and maybe money into improving it. It has steadily grown to its 414 entries now, but with >5500 members we could be looking at >5000 entries !!! The more entries that our members add the more prone i will be to spend serious money and time developing it into a better resource for us all 

comments welcome  as always


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

My thoughts on its current format so far,

Change the name; 'Motorhome stopovers database' or something more m/h oriented.

European entries need to have input for region or dept (ie, France Dept 88, Vosges. Germany region, Nordrhein Westfalen, Baden Wurtemberg etc etc) to enable more specified searches

M/H friendly parking place y/n, not sure if its really needed?
M/H washing facilities y/n, not needed
waste fac's for M/H and M/H service point could be integrated
Open from/to only needs to be 'months'

Additions;

option for 2 photos?

site access for motorhomes, 'easy/ok/difficult' or similar.

Thats all i can think of at the mo...



Love to see it end up like you say, with a map of europe and clicking on different areas for M/Home stoppover information.

pete.


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## 88757 (May 9, 2005)

I so agree with peejay about listing departements in France, as in browsing sites in France, I was desperately searching for clues as to what part of France and if it would be anywhere near where we intend going. I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth by voicing any criticism, however constructive, as I really appreciate this great site.  
Keep up the great work
Mary


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

Here are my thoughts so far;

Well I printed off PeeJays' proforma it looks like the 'add a site screen' I would simplify the latter and try and use more pull down menus to make it easier to enter information and comment as follows:

Camping site/spot should include name and nearest town (makes it easier to locate a spot.)

Do we really need two fields of positioning data i.e. X and Y as well as Ordinance Survey, I also had to think about what was meant by x and y. why not stick with what most GPS's use and call them longitude and latitude.

There is pull down menu for site type so why have other fields like MH friendly parking place and Wild camping spot.

Just have one field for MH Service point Y/N with room for comment on user friendliness.

Don't need to know about washing a motorhome in this context. 

It is not worth recording dates of opening and closing, they vary from year to year better to have 
Just the "open all year field y/n" and as long as there are contact details people interested can find out seasonal times for themselves.

Have a field for "Access and pitches suitable for MH up to 8m" Y/N

Keep the hard standings available Y/N but 

Have a field for "Pitch state" using a pull down menu:
Grassy well drained
Suitable in all weathers
Difficult when wet or Could be difficult when wet

Have a field for "Pitch area" using a pull down menu	
Level
Part sloping
Sloping


Re title the General Information field to "Additional Information for motorhome users". With perhaps a guidance note like (State why you think the site is good or bad for motorhomes) 

For costs, why not just a single field "Typical costs" again this information can soon become out of date, perhaps it should not be included as long as there is a contact address or website or phone number. 

Highlight a note that contact information or guide reference is important 

peedee


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

Well firstly an update:-
Got some quotes and eventually settled on a nice Ukranian designer who is going to implement the interactive map front end 



> Change the name; 'Motorhome stopovers database' or something more m/h oriented.


Agreed hmmm Motorhome stopover phrase already been coined elsewhere, what about Motorhome Stops ?



> European entries need to have input for region or dept (ie, France Dept 88, Vosges. Germany region, Nordrhein Westfalen, Baden Wurtemberg etc etc) to enable more specified searches


Yup agreed, got a handy list to post here of all French Departments one per line, and same for other countries i.e. Counties in UK, Regions in Spain/Germany etc



> M/H friendly parking place y/n, not sure if its really needed?


No, nor me, it will be removed in new version



> M/H washing facilities y/n, not needed


Yes agreed, to be removed in new version.



> waste fac's for M/H and M/H service point could be integrated


Agreed to be implemented in new version.



> Open from/to only needs to be 'months'


The problem here is that when on the move like i am you really need something more accurate and granular. I do dislike the presentmethod of entering dates though and have implemented a nice little java popup calendar instead so you just click on the relevant month/date instead 

on to PeeDees comments 



> Camping site/spot should include name and nearest town (makes it easier to locate a spot.)


I could add a new field saying nearest Town ?



> Do we really need two fields of positioning data i.e. X and Y as well as Ordinance Survey,


This was just an initial thing, but it appears no-one enters ordnance survey info so i could dispense with the Ordnance survey fields in new version



> I also had to think about what was meant by x and y. why not stick with what most GPS's use and call them longitude and latitude.


Very true, renamed in new version



> There is pull down menu for site type so why have other fields like MH friendly parking place and Wild camping spot.


Yep, can add dropdown to select those type of fields



> Have a field for "Access and pitches suitable for MH up to 8m" Y/N


I could add a field for Suitable for large MHs Y/N ?



> Have a field for "Pitch state" using a pull down menu:
> Grassy well drained
> Suitable in all weathers
> Difficult when wet or Could be difficult when wet
> ...


I like these ideas, but are people happy to enter this amount of information for each entry ???



> Re title the General Information field to "Additional Information for motorhome users". With perhaps a guidance note like (State why you think the site is good or bad for motorhomes)


Again I like these and will implement in new version



> For costs, why not just a single field "Typical costs" again this information can soon become out of date, perhaps it should not be included as long as there is a contact address or website or phone number.


I like the idea of simplifying for typical costs, it does make it harder to search against for prices then though as it becomes a text field in the database rather than numeric and therefore cannot be searched against with a query like <5 etc,anyone any other suggestions on entering prices?

Another thing i was thinking about was that when i have figured out the new gui was that the world map shows as the intro page, you click on the relevant country which then shows that country with outlines of various sections such as counties in UK, depts in France etc, you can either click on a section to show all entries that match that section or click on a little menu icon to expand a menu to add in extra choices to filter down the results i.e. Open all year, disabled facilities etc.
This a good idea ????

There is a lot of work here, and i mean a Lot  but i believe this will be a huge step forward for the database and in conjunction with Pussers suggestions will start reaping rewards for the members.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

> show all entries that match that section or click on a little menu icon to expand a menu to add in extra choices to filter down the results


Definitely the latter, Dave, if you are going to include all kinds of stops from top-notch commercial sites to wildcamping spots, as one would wish to be able to filter on site type.

No chance of georeferenced symbols on maps, then? (Those that don't ask, ......)

Just to say that lat long is preferable, because you don't duplication with NGRs, and the latter is pretty useless across the Channel ......

Dave


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

Hi Dave, it wouldnt be either / or, the map would have a little menu icon displayed in a corner, if clicked on it would expand to show the filtering fields


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

Looking promising Dave,

just a few more comments, 

Is a 'world' map needed, wouldn,t 'Europe' suffice?

Still not sure if the title works but hopefully someone will come up with a catchy heading.

Ability to print off the input page as opposed to having a separate feature in 'downloads' (most don't know its there).

Any plans for more photo's or maybe a slightly larger singular one?

maybe a link to some mapping pages for location i.e multimap, or would that make it too costly or complicated (just thinking out loud).

so far so good,

pete.


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

all this computer tech stuff is way over my head, not that that is difficult as i'm only a shortass :roll: 

getting right back to basics i have a problem with sharing 'my sites' in this way. as well as the 5,500 members even more people who don't register log on.

i love to swap sites with people we meet whilst travelling but i don't think i want to give that info to so many people  

i like quiet underused basic sites in great locations and if lots more people use them they won't be underused anymore.

am i just an anti-social old git :?: 

am i worrying uneccessarily - if people thought i might be there would they avoid it :?: 

i don't think there's any need to start a poll on the above questions. plain unadulterated abuse will do :lol:


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

smifee said:


> am i just an anti-social old git :?:


Yep!  However, it does bring about the question whether some parts of this website should only be accessable by sticker owners - I'm ordering mine this week once I get a cash job in so I shall be a fully laid up member. 8)


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## nukeadmin (Oct 10, 2003)

> Is a 'world' map needed, wouldn,t 'Europe' suffice?


y true, Western Europe as Eastern Europe not really needed either



> Ability to print off the input page as opposed to having a separate feature in 'downloads' (most don't know its there).


excellent idea



> Any plans for more photo's or maybe a slightly larger singular one?


I have already got this planned, i want to be able to get the system to resize the photos to make it easier to add them, and to allow 3 photos as standard if needed and maybe 5 photos for paid entries in the future.



> maybe a link to some mapping pages for location i.e multimap, or would that make it too costly or complicated (just thinking out loud).


it already does this, if someone has entered a postcode or lat/long, although there are a few bugs in the lat/longsystem.



> getting right back to basics i have a problem with sharing 'my sites' in this way. as well as the 5,500 members even more people who don't register log on.


Only the members can access the campsite database smifee



> i like quiet underused basic sites in great locations and if lots more people use them they won't be underused anymore


I dont really think our membership is going to make any considerable difference smifee, even if we had ten times our size of membership as they dont all particulary like quiet sites  and many might not even go abroad etc


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## smifee (May 17, 2005)

ok nuke - if the DB (oops musn't do that or jabber will give me stick) database can only be accessed by members i think i'll share.

hi pusser - missed you on thursday. had to charge down the 303 as far as the taunton turnoff. vanbitz rang the day before to see if i could take the van in early. didn't see a P&P CI with a nautical roll anywhere.

did you see an overcab hymer sedately driven, by an anti-social old git, being followed at a decent distance ( that's one oriental custom i heartily endorse ) by the dragon in a white daihatsu 4WD micro car :?:


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## Anonymous (Nov 10, 2000)

smifee said:


> ok nuke - if the DB (oops musn't do that or jabber will give me stick) database can only be accessed by members i think i'll share.
> 
> hi pusser - missed you on thursday. had to charge down the 303 as far as the taunton turnoff. vanbitz rang the day before to see if i could take the van in early. didn't see a P&P CI with a nautical roll anywhere.
> 
> did you see an overcab hymer sedately driven, by an anti-social old git, being followed at a decent distance ( that's one oriental custom i heartily endorse ) by the dragon in a white daihatsu 4WD micro car :?:


We set off late due to a dental appoitment I nearly missed so I suspect we were on that bit of the A303 around 16:00. You could hardly miss me as I was driving along with the alarm siren going and headlights and indicators flashing and cars in front pulling over as they thought I'd loss control.

I did see many motorhomes coming the other way and we were overtaken once or twice by some really tasty models. (m\homes)


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## peedee (May 10, 2005)

nukeadmin said:


> Agreed hmmm Motorhome stopover phrase already been coined elsewhere, what about Motorhome Stops ?


Sounds good to me because a stop can be anyplace.



> Camping site/spot should include name and nearest town (makes it easier to locate a spot.)
> I could add a new field saying nearest Town ?


I'd be happy with that, but wouldn't you be duplicating what is already in the address? Perhaps drop this idea unless someone can think of a good reason for doing it. I just thought if it was part of a stops name, in any list you get a better idea of where it is. eg. if you were browsing a country or region?



> Have a field for "Access and pitches suitable for MH up to 8m" Y/N
> I could add a field for Suitable for large MHs Y/N ?


Think it better to state a size, if you don't, it leaves it open to individuals as to what is meant by large. Some might consider 6m large and there is a lot of difference in 2 metres. I only suggested 8m because I thought it would capture 95 percent of vehicles.



> Have a field for "Pitch state" using a pull down menu:
> Grassy well drained
> Suitable in all weathers
> Difficult when wet or Could be difficult when wet
> ...


I think it is essential to have it for many "stops" and here we are only talking about setting a pull down menu, no real entry effort at all.



> For costs, why not just a single field "Typical costs" again this information can soon become out of date, perhaps it should not be included as long as there is a contact address or website or phone number.
> 
> I like the idea of simplifying for typical costs, it does make it harder to search against for prices then though as it becomes a text field in the database rather than numeric and therefore cannot be searched against with a query like <5 etc,anyone any other suggestions on entering prices?


Not sure I follow this, isn't a typical cost still a number or perhaps I am missing something. An alternative could be "Maximum expected cost"



> There is a lot of work here, and i mean a Lot  but i believe this will be a huge step forward for the database and in conjunction with Pussers suggestions will start reaping rewards for the members.


I hope it is worth it. Your willingness to listen and make changes is much appreciated. I had better enter some more stops now!

peedee


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