# Which RV for full timing



## mmmartin

Hi folks, need some help with this one if you can. 

After spending the summer riding around Europe on a motorbike fullfiling a life time dream, we have realised that we wont to opt out of the rat race and become fulltimers. This is where we need your help.

Finding the right RV for us has become bigger problem than we first thought. We expect to do approximatly 25-30K per year around Europe so the economy of fuel is very important. A 7.5 ton chassis seems sensible as we can both drive it on our standard license and because its relativly light, fuel econony should be better that the larger RVs. There does not appear to be many 7.5 ton units available with diesel engine or am I just not looking in the right places. Do the smaller class of RV have washing machines fitted, as is a must for what we propose to do. Buying the correct unit is obviously very important as we do not intend to change it later, or are we asking too much to expect 20 years and 500k miles without major failures with only routine maintance. Your views and experiences on which unit would be most appreciated. regards

martin


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## geraldandannie

Hi, Martin

What is your bidget? This might help some of our RV fans identify what might be suitable. Do you want new or second hand?

Gerald


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## Rapide561

*RV*

Hi

I would try to get one with double glazed/dual pane windows - is that possible on a RV?

Washing machine - I do not understand how a washing machine can work in a RV. When the machines are delivered they have a bar inside them to stop the drum rocking about during transit - does this have to keep being refitted when you drive the RV?

My last Hoover had a bar and a concrete block in it to stabalise it during transport!

Russell


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## Steptoe

*Re: RV*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> 
> My last Hoover had a bar and a concrete block in it to stabalise it during transport!
> 
> Russell


Did you remove the block 8O 8O all the machines I have ever come across used the concrete as damping ballast during the spin cycle to prevent them leaping about.

With regard to the transit bar, not necessary to refit it during the very gentle manoeuvring the average MH is subjected to.


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## Rapide561

*Concrete*

Hi

The installer took it away.

Russell


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## 101276

*washing machine*

trust me you dont want a washing machine in your rv,because your tanks will be full in 2 minutes and if your not near a drain it is a hustle
just as easy to use on site.
Steve fulltimmer 7 years


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## DABurleigh

Martin,

An R-Vision Trail Aire 281 with an LPG conversion should meet your requirements.

Here's a Lite version new at just £31,500 asking price in the US:
http://www.rvisionrvs.com/rvinventory_item.asp?id=199608

Dave


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## mmmartin

Gerald,

As far as the budjet goes within reason for us its not the biggest issue, more of a concern is the ongoing running costs for repairs and service and also the fuel costs. We discovered this year although on a bike, it was amazing how much fuel you get through and unfortunatly its one of those things that never goes down in price. Having said that £50-60K could be availabe. It would also appear that to import from the USA gives a price advantage even after the import duty and VAT. One area of concern with this seems to be the width limit as most appear to be over the 100.5 inches set out by the DVLA.


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## DABurleigh

I'm a bit intrigued as to your mileage estimate. Averaging 80 miles a day, day in, day out all year around in an RV, I wonder if you'll savour where you've been! 

You didn't comment on the (width compliant, BTW) Trail Aire so I presume your heart is set on diesel? What ones HAVE you come across under 7500kg and big enough to full-time in?

Dave


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## 88927

Well where to start???
Buying an RV to live fulltime in is a big decision indeed. The most important statement that I gleaned from your initial question was that you want to buy an RV, run it for possibly 20 years and drive it 25-30K miles per year.
Well in the order of the question, the single most important thing for you both to decide is the layout, when you are living together 24/7 in a confined space, you have to have somewhere to escape to. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but you will grate on each other, it is inevitable, so please give this topic an awful lot of thought....
Secondly, a well maintained RV will easily last 20 years, but you will have to keep on top of maintenance and if you are not able to do stuff it means paying out to have it done. I would allow £1000 per year to cover maintenance, it will not cost that every year but at some point you will need new tyres at a cost of £150-£200 each, and there will inevitably be other things that will fail as well as an annual service being carried out.
25000 miles of driving in a year, every year is possibly a bit extreme but if you work out that mileage at 15 MPG (diesel type mileage) then you will burn 1666.66 gallons of fuel per year, which (at current UK prices) will set you back about £7500 per year.
I think over the long term you will be hard pushed to average 10000 miles per year, unless you intend to visit every village on Earth :lol: :lol: :lol: and as far as the vehicle going for 300-500000 miles, I believe this to be a reasonable expectation, from a well maintained vehicle.
I certainly would not recommend going for a petrol engine, even with an existing LPG conversion. Yes on paper it will be cheaper to run in the UK and in Northern Europe, but... I don't think that LPG is easily available in southern Europe, and certainly not in the Eastern Block countries. A diesel engine will eat virtually anything slightly volatile and will last much longer (generally) than a petrol lump. It will also have yards more torque so as a consequence it will be working less hard for any given situation. Diesel engines are probably easier to have repaired when you find yourself in the boonies as well, a lot of developing countries will not have the staff or equipment to fix a complex petrol fuel injection system.
Washing machine, in a less than 36 foot RV is exceptionally rare and as said earlier a waste of space in my view unless you can hook the RV up to a city water supply and drop the grey immediately down a drain on the pitch (they have these in the USA, but I am not sure about Europe).
We have a 1995 30 foot Rockwood Regent, with a 6.5 litre turbo diesel on a Chevrolet P30 Chassis which weighs in a little under 7 tons so they are available. Just as an example, our RV has done less than 70000 miles in 11 years, and was used to provide accommodation to film stars on film sets all over Europe when it was imported new, so it did quite a lot of work but nowhere near the mileage you have indicated....
Dual paned windows were not really fitted prior to 1997/8 in most RV's and I understand that it was an option for the northern states anyway, so if you buy a southern state registered RV it may not have dual pane windows. We have single pane windows and they do condensate when we have 6-8 people in the van for dinner (including the cooking) and I am not certain that dual pane windows would fair much better anyway, laws of physics says that the airborne moisture molecule has to go somewhere.... If you intend to stay in southern Europe for winters then this should not be an issue and if they do mist up, then just use a chammy leather as I do, to wipe them down...
£50-60K will buy you a very nice bus, my advice would be to try to get around 30 - 32 feet with a large slideout and also try to get under the 7500kgs weight (they do exist). With a slideout in the lounge you will gain huge rewards in terms of living and entertaining space with an obvious weight penalty. I would certainly advise buying a unit from a thoroughbred stable, as you want it to last for years, some of the cheaper and lighter units will not last the pace, in my opinion... You cannot just save cost and weight without something going out of the window. I would also advise buying an existing unit in the UK at the moment because it will already be registered and you don't have to worry about the DVLA measuring instruments.... I honestly think that importing from the USA is not as favorable now as it was maybe a couple of years ago, prices here have dropped but the import tax is still 10% and VAT is still 17.5% on top of all your costs, so what looks like a good deal initially in the USA might only save you 10-15% overall and you will have to do all the work and have the responsibility if it goes wrong.
Not trying to scare you here, just balance the book a little, a lot of people have self imported and that is great but personally I do not consider it worthwhile at this point in time.
I hope that this has been useful to you and if I can help with anything else please just ask, I am no expert but I try :lol: :lol: :lol: 


Keith

Ps Subscribing to this site will be the best tenner you will ever spend on this journey that you are beginning :wink: :wink:


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## mmmartin

Hi Dave

The mileage we think is about right due to the need to return back to the UK from southern europe approximatly every 3 months for the foreseeable future. Not ideal but the only way we could live out this dream.

The Trail Aire is not an RV that I have seen before but after looking at the spec it appears to do every thing we need. Probable the longer chassis for the extra room would be ideal. Weight again is the issue, its proving difficult to have your cake and eat it. By he time you have added generators and water along with all the rest of the kit you take, even the Lite version is going to be over weight, and all that before hanging a bike on the back.

The preference for the diesel is simply because thats what i know, they seem to be hardy and generaly if you give them a chance they are reliable and give a reasonable return on fuel. If I'm honest my knowledge of the American petrols and Gas conversions is very small and this is probable the problem with accepting them, not knowing how reliable they are and the running cost both from service and MPG. Could you shed any light on this


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## 101411

*running an RV*

Hi. With regards to the weight issue......why don't you just take your class 1 HGV test and buy the coach that fits your requirements. You can do the test in a week and it costs about £1000ish. Also the lessons you will learn about handling a big vehicle are invaluable. If the test is an issue why not tow a trailer with the bikes in the back. Your standard car licence will let you drive a 7.5 tonne vehicle and a trailer with a total vehicle/trailer weight of 12 tonnes (I think im correct with that but you should check...just read the smallprint on your license).
I had a Chevy motorhome which we sold last year we had an LPG conversion done on it and although we didn't do a huge amount of mileage in it the conversion paid for itself in less than 12 months. Its a very very satisfying feeling standing on the forecourt pressing that black button (for what seems like an eternity!!) knowing everyone else is paying more than twice as much as you are!! We never had a problem with it in 3 years and in actual fact the engine ran better on gas than it did on petrol. MPG is about the same (some say a little less but i didn't notice it) but as the fuel is less than 1/2 price you effectively double your MPG for the same cost. Just 1 little note about LPG it doesn't like cold weather. If you get it converted you MUST run the engine on petrol in cold weather till the engine warms up. and make sure the installers of the LPG system fit a radiator that heats the gas via this radiator (hence letting the engine warm up!!) before it enters the fuel system. A cheap LPG conversion wont have this radiator which is fine if the temperature is never going to go below say 5-6 degrees C but here in sunny UK it does so be warned! Oh yes and get as many LPG tanks strapped on underneath as there is room for absolute minimum of 200lts but 3-400 would be better. Yes its going to take you 20-30 mins to fill it up and yes the forecourt attendant is going to have to reset the pump about 5 times but believe me LPG stations are not as common as you think and the ones on the motorways kick your backside with the prices. Also don't forget that the RV will still run on good old fashioned petrol which is cheaper in Europe than it is here.
As far as diesel is concerned im afraid its swings and roundabouts. You will find more mechanics willing to have a go with a big thumping V8-10 petrol than with a diesel. Also big block USA V8-10 petrols are ten a penny the world over and spares are easier to come by but they are less efficient, less powerful and not as hard wearing. If your looking at a big A class the whole coach will be based on a commercial bus chassis and engine/gearbox good for many hundreds of thousands of miles with good maintenance and diesel is available anywhere in the world (if all else fails you can always raid the chipfat store!!!).
My advise is get on a plane and go and have a look in USA the choice is huge and you will get to see a much fuller picture than the blinkered and fogged one you will see in the UK (just remember to take a tape measure!!!). If your feeling brave import it yourself its not that hard and you will save money although there is the warranty issue but if you buy a well know chassis (Ford and GM spring to mind) the warranty on the chassis and running gear is valid worldwide, its just the living accommodation bits that you have to worry about and the money you will save importing will more than cover any minor repairs.
Good luck with your search i hope my little input has helped.

Darren


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## des

Agree with all the above advice. Better to spend on LGV licence, and then buy big, than stand the cost of trading up, which happens so so many. If I were buying an RV for full timing, I would definitly go for a diesel pusher. With full basement lockers. And slideouts for "visual space". Unless you are one of the few who can sustain a minimalist lifestyle.

des


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## Rapide561

*Rv*

Hi

As a non Rv owner, the advice above looks excellent.

Russell


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## DABurleigh

Martin,

Well, if you really will be going 30k miles per year in an RV and intend hanging on to it for a long time, then I would certainly go diesel. But your 3-monthly round trips are not only hellishly expensive in fuel/running costs but may drive you to a more expensive diesel capital cost in the first place.

The reason I suggested a Trail Aire is that personally I like the compromise. I would much rather keep to 30ft with a slide or two, even for long-terming (we don't envisage full-timing), diesel pushers don't come this short, even if they did they would rob storage space, and for noise I'd rather have a petrol V8 sitting up front with me than a big diesel. Here is gumpf on the petrol engine in the Trail Aire:
http://www.workhorse.com/Default.aspx?tabid=160
With an LPG conversion you would have plenty of poke in a refined, quieter engine at quite reasonable (unless you are doing 30k miles per year ....) miles/£. And when they are available from US dealers new at between £30k and £50k asking price, that's a steal in value-for-money.

As to weight, I would avoid the tail wagging the dog. Get the motorhome you want for other reasons, then if you need the HGV test, do it, and persuade the missus as well, because I know what you mean - knowing two of you CAN pilot the thing if need be does take the pressure off you.

Having said that, the Trail Aire's GVWR is the MAXIMUM weight of the vehicle including fluids & payload and is able to be driven on a normal driving licence. Details on GVWR here:
http://www.rvsafety.org/terms.htm

I 'm not up to speed with UK RV dealers' offerings, but I am unaware of any new diesel RV of 30ft or more and of UK legal width that is able to be driven on a car licence. I'd be interested to hear from fellow MHFers if they know of any.

Dave


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## nukeadmin

If i may add, have you conisdered a large European rather than an RV as well ?

I say this from experience as i went fulltiming around Europe and unless you are happy to go from pre planned site to pre planned site over major highways then the size / weight factor could be a limiting variable on your travelling. I know all the RVers will say that they don't limit where you can go, but my way of travelling is to meander not based on pre planned in advance routes and even with our relatively small A Class of around 27ft long and 5.5 tonne chassis we met a few issues where we had to back out of or couldnt transverse places so in a much larger RV there would have been more.

As for the washing machine, its a nice sounding idea but thats what it is just an idea, in reality they just arent feasible, the amount of water you need and also need to get shot of once the wash is finished makes them useless unless on site with facilities literally on tap and if thats the case might as well just use the laundry on most big sites


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## artona

Hi

we have a washing machine in our Euromobil. Its manual and is nothing more than a bucket on a turning mechanism but it works. C7Ken's Sue used it at the fulltiming rally and though it great. 

I agree with all the comments about the fully fitted auto machines.

stew


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## olley

DABurleigh said:


> Martin,
> The reason I suggested a Trail Aire is that personally I like the compromise. I would much rather keep to 30ft with a slide or two, even for long-terming (we don't envisage full-timing), diesel pushers don't come this short, even if they did they would rob storage space, and for noise I'd rather have a petrol V8 sitting up front with me than a big diesel. Here is gumpf on the petrol engine in the Trail Aire:
> http://www.workhorse.com/Default.aspx?tabid=160
> With an LPG conversion you would have plenty of poke in a refined, quieter engine at quite reasonable (unless you are doing 30k miles per year ....) miles/£. And when they are available from US dealers new at between £30k and £50k asking price, that's a steal in value-for-money.
> 
> As to weight, I would avoid the tail wagging the dog. Get the motorhome you want for other reasons, then if you need the HGV test, do it, and persuade the missus as well, because I know what you mean - knowing two of you CAN pilot the thing if need be does take the pressure off you.
> 
> Having said that, the Trail Aire's GVWR is the MAXIMUM weight of the vehicle including fluids & payload and is able to be driven on a normal driving licence. Details on GVWR here:
> http://www.rvsafety.org/terms.htm
> 
> I 'm not up to speed with UK RV dealers' offerings, but I am unaware of any new diesel RV of 30ft or more and of UK legal width that is able to be driven on a car licence. I'd be interested to hear from fellow MHFers if they know of any.
> 
> Dave


Hi I don't agree with dave, the Trail lites are built down to a cost, of all the RV's we have looked at I thought they were the most poorly built, if you intend to keep it 10 years and do that sort of milage you need to buy a quality RV. New I would look at nothing under £100,000 or buy secondhand.

You will find it difficult to get a new 30' RV with slides under 7.5 tonnes, unless its been downrated, with a loss of payload.

According to a post of Don mages, Lpg widely is available all over europe, so don't let that put you of a petrol/lpg engine, on the small RV's like mine (31') you will have a problem finding somewhere to put the tanks.

I am in the process of fitting a washer/dryer, so completely at odds with all the others :lol: a bosch washer/dryer uses 47lt on wash and 114lt on wash/dry (from their specs.) I have a 200lt fresh water tank, so once a week do a couple of washes and drain/refill tanks, seems ok to me. But ask me again in 2-3 years and I might have a different answer. 

Olley


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## TonyHunt

Olleys right, Trail lites have a certain thing against them on quality& build. They are built to be cheap and when you look inside them and compare with others it shows. When I visited Dudleys and had a good look round at several different makes the Winnebagos stood out as being very well built. I spoke to the boss who I think was Paul Dudley and asked him the question of how big a winnie you could buy and still keep under the 7.5 tonnes he said the 32ft was the max with no slide and the 30ft with a slide was ok also. We were very impressed with the new 29ft winnie and also the smaller 26 that had two slides. That 26 had everything that the bigger ones had because of the extra space the two slides made. It felt huge inside yet not a lot longer than our Bessacarr and only a few inches wider. If I had the money available I would have written a cheque out there and then :lol:


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## DABurleigh

Tony,

If you are talking about the Winnie Sightseer, only the short 26P is under 7.5 tonnes, otherwise I'd have mentioned the 30. Unfortunately (for me) the 26 you have to choose a sofa OR a dinette.

Dave


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## mmmartin

Im begining to get the picture that perhaps the way forward is going to be take the test and go for a heavier unit.

Getting a diesel with a slide under 7.5 ton is possible but there seems to be some doubt around the service life of the gearbox and running gear on smaller rv's that will be expected to do 400-500K over the next 20 years. The cost of maintanance may outway the long term service costs. 

I spoke today with Dudleys and got the feel that a Freightliner chassis driven by the 300hp Cummins would give the life required but the obvious down side again is the heavier fuel consumption. Before we start looking at the Winne Journey or similiar has anyone had experience of the Cummins and if so what are the returns on MPG. Reliability is very important but at what cost.


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## TonyHunt

Dave. Why would the boss of a reputable company like Dudleys tell me that the 30s and 32s were able to be driven on a car licence if they cannot. I have seen private adds on ebay etc that say you could drive their 38 footers with 2 slides on a car licence but you would have to be straight off a nana boat to believe their claims. If I was buying the 26P I would definatly have the sofa model. Any M/H that only had a table and buffet seats would be out for me. How can you possibly relax of an evening in seats like that. You can always have a fold up table.


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## olley

Hi tony my winnebago is classed as a 30' it goes 9.25 tonnes thats on the W22 chassis (22,000lb) they do make them on the W18 chassis (18,000lb) but thats still over 8 tonnes. As I said they downrate them but you lose over 1/2 tonne of payload. 

Scotjimland has a 36' Georgie boy, no slides goes about 81/2 tonnes with a 6.5L cummins, I think he said he got about 15mpg.

Olley


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## Invicta

I am more than happy with my 26.5" Fourwinds Siesta with double slide outs! It is on a Ford Econoline 6.8 petrol engine but I have had it converted to LPG. Getting the equivilent roughly of 18-22 to the gallon. It is now possible to get a diesel version as seen at Excel last week on the Trucks 'R' Us stand. 

For UK roads and parking in my driveway, I wouldn't want anything bigger. I could quite imagine two living in it comfortably, either here in the UK or the continent, for long periods of time. We managed this summer for nearly three weeks with three adults, one teenager one 3 year old and half way through, a very large Labrador. I must say, the excellent Autobox on the back was a great help!


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## DABurleigh

Tony,

Dudley's is indeed reputable, and I have no doubt Paul told the truth (even if he was economical with the actualite) but that does not mean caveat emptor can be waived.

Armed with the figures off the Winnie website, I would have asked why he thought we in the UK needed only a fraction of our US colleagues' payload. I can't think of one but he might. He would probably turn it back on you simply by saying that he thought it a reasonable trade for you in order to avoid upgrading your driving licence.

Dave


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## TonyHunt

Invicta said:


> I am more than happy with my 26.5" Fourwinds Siesta with double slide outs! It is on a Ford Econoline 6.8 petrol engine but I have had it converted to LPG. Getting the equivilent roughly of 18-22 to the gallon. It is now possible to get a diesel version as seen at Excel last week on the Trucks 'R' Us stand.
> 
> For UK roads and parking in my driveway, I wouldn't want anything bigger. I could quite imagine two living in it comfortably, either here in the UK or the continent, for long periods of time. We managed this summer for nearly three weeks with three adults, one teenager one 3 year old and half way through, a very large Labrador. I must say, the excellent Autobox on the back was a great help!


You put the teenager in there did you? :lol:

Blimey Olley is that true. How can these dealers get away with telling potential customers these fibs then or is he quoting for a different model. I think it was the sightseers he was talking about. I think If I want one I might have to spend a grand and try and add the HGV bit to my licence. Trouble is in five years time got the problem of a medical every year to keep it.


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## DABurleigh

DABurleigh said:
 

> I am unaware of any new diesel RV of 30ft or more and of UK legal width that is able to be driven on a car licence. I'd be interested to hear from fellow MHFers if they know of any.





mmmartin said:


> Getting a diesel with a slide under 7.5 ton is possible


Martin,

New?

Can anyone else point me to a US website that shows a new diesel RV 30ft or over with a GVWR of less than 16530lbs?

Dave


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## olley

Hi Tony last year at one of the shows, when I pressed a dealer about weight, he addmitted that the shipping weight was just over 7 tonnes 8O 8O on top of that he was giving away a free lpg conversion, which would have added another 200kg. 

That wasn't dudleys by the way.

Trucks r us used to downrate one of the Hurricane range. Its not right but it helps to sell them.

Olley


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## mmmartin

Dave,

Winnebago have the sightseer available new with a 6.5 litre chevy but is only 26'. Dudley's said that the engine is due to be phased out in the next two years but the gearbox in this case realy is the weekest link. I doubt 26' would be big enough for us either, not for full time.

Martin


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## kijana

Hi mmmartin

Good decision, fulltiming in Europe. We're about to set off for long term living in our newly acquired RV.

Like you, we wanted to make sure we bought a van we could be comfortable in. With just the two of us, we needed enough space that we didn't feel on top of each other all the time; and we wanted at least two separate rooms, so one can stay up reading or whatever whilst the other is in bed. Or just a room each to sulk in!

So we researched all the floorplans on the Yank websites.

What we really wanted was a Cummins diesel pusher on a Freightliner chassis. But these are a great deal more expensive than petrol pullers. They also tend to come in larger sizes, both length and width.

In the end we settled on a Four Winds Hurricane 30F with a Ford Triton V10 petrol engine. This gives us the sofa/dinette slideout we wanted, plus fixed full size end bedroom. It has loads of luggage lockers underfloor, and should enable wildcamping for a few days at a time with adequate tankage and onboard generator.

OK, so the petrol engine is thirstier than diesel, but if you are going to do big miles then convert to LPG.

Other than that, our machine appears to fit exactly the criteria we'd set. The MAM is a tad over 8 tonnes, so I took my HGV. It was a lot of fun (if quite demanding), but has given me the confidence to enjoy driving The Beast.

So in my view, get your HGV, so you have lots of choice. For two of you, it should be less than 2 grand, and you'll save that the first time you don't have an accident because now you know what you're doing.

You need a slideout to maximise the advantage of an RV. Without the slideout, you may not feel you get enough plusses to balance the running costs. We feel one slideout is all we need, to give a large lounging area. We don't see the point of more than one, and each slideout adds weight and complexity (and reduces the stiffness of the chassis, which starts out pretty marginal!).

Diesel pushers are large, heavy, and expensive. Apart from Cummins, I don't reckon the Yanks do diesel engines nearly as well as they do petrol engines. With their perceived birthright to petrol costs of 9p a gallon, they've never had to develop good diesels.

Now the V10 Triton is one sweet lump. Silky smooth, bags of torque, 325bhp, been made for years as a light truck engine. With a good lpg conversion, should give similar economy to diesel.

Not sure about the wisdom or practicality of keeping one RV for 10 years and 500k miles. I doubt you'll buy the right one first time - we're waiting til we've lived in ours a while before deciding to keep it longterm. Also, whilst the engine and chassis side may last that long, I think you'd start to see problems occuring in the rest. I can see slideouts giving trouble eventually, and there are so many domestic systems buried in the bodywork I think you'd expect some work to show up.

More to the point, I don't think you need to keep one van. Buy at the right price, use it for a bit, sell at the right price, and you shouldn't drop too much. The biggest hit in depreciation is buying brand new.

If you do your homework, buy carefully, and get lucky, you will save money buying secondhand in the States. But it's very stressful, with no guarantee you won't lose out bigtime if DVLA get funny. Search the site, but you'll need several crates of beer and a very comfortable chair to read all about the joys(!) of personal imports.

Whatever you decide, good luck in your choice of vehicle and in your travels. We started on this road 2 years ago: it's been a bit rough at times, but now the end is in sight it's starting to look good!

So go for it, and along the way pay your subs to join this site - you know you want to  . All this advice has cost us lot millions. . .

Cheers

Bruce


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## olley

kijana said:


> Diesel pushers are large, heavy, and expensive. Apart from Cummins, I don't reckon the Yanks do diesel engines nearly as well as they do petrol engines. With their perceived birthright to petrol costs of 9p a gallon, they've never had to develop good diesels.
> 
> Bruce


hi kijana, what about Caterpillar, GM, Perkins, the yanks make some of the best diesels in the world, I think only the Caterpillar is fitted in RV's.

I have worked on all of them plus european ones, never known anything more reliable than a Cummins, Cat or the beautiful 2 stroke GM.

Olley


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## kijana

Fair cop, Olley. What I should have said is in my view Ford and Chevrolet make better petrol engines than diesels. 

You don't rate Lister or Petter, then. . .

Bruce


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## olley

kijana said:


> Fair cop, Olley. What I should have said is in my view Ford and Chevrolet make better petrol engines than diesels.
> 
> You don't rate Lister or Petter, then. . .
> 
> Bruce


Hi Bruce, think I might have changed the fuel filter on a petter genny, apart from that never worked on them. :lol: :lol:

I have driven one of those lister 3 wheeled trucks, great fun. Reckon I would knacker myself trying to start one now. :lol:

Olley


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## 88927

And I am quite sure that you two old boys will have played with a Rolls Royce diesel........ I have to agree with you about the noise from a diesel motor up front with you, they do roar a bit, but then I quite like that :lol: :lol: At least I know it is still running :lol: :lol: 
Still thinking that if someone is going to travel around a bit and see some of the under developed countries before MacDonalds civilises them :roll: , then a diesel motor is (in my opinion) the choice to go for. I am sure that any mechanic in any country in the world can get a diesel motor to run whereas the modern petrol motors will be a mystery to most... They are to me anyway :lol: 

Keith


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## olley

kands said:


> And I am quite sure that you two old boys will have played with a Rolls Royce diesel
> Keith


Hi Keith I worked on two 6 cylinder r/r diesels fitted into some of BR's on-track machinery back in the seventy's, biggest pile of poo I ever worked on.

As for modern petrols like you no idea, but modern diesels are just the same, all micro-processers.

Olley


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## kijana

I only really know Lister diesels, from the the generators powering lighthouses. But Olley's right, starting an old Lister with a 1/2 ton flywheel on a starting handle took a particular mix of skill, stamina, brute strength and esp. And that was with decompression valves lifted!

As to modern diesels versus petrol engine repairability, I suspect the ubiquitous black box technology has rendered both equally inaccessable to anyone without a p.c. based diagnostics kit. (See another thread on this site where some poor bugger's Lexington diesel failed in Germany last summer & he's still waiting for someone to fix it).

Me, I'll just think positive thoughts and groove to the sound of my V10 on song! (And hope to god the donk keeps plodding).

Anyway, Keith, haven't come across many diesel powered MG's!

Bruce


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## foggyparrot

Hi Martin and everyone else

Just thought I'd get my two pennies worth in if it helps.

I have to agree with Keith (Kands) about the diesel bit. I too was like a lot of my fellow posters' in this thread. I have owned American vehicles since I first passed my test way back in the very early seventies. The one consistent thing about the Yanks is that they are consistent. The engine I had in my Pacer and (latterly) my very late model Jeep, was exactly the same lump as was fitted to the very early Willys MBs from the 1950's. The only things that ever changed were the dangly bits bolted on to them to make them go faster, burn the gas quicker and give an LED readout of why it was doing it.

I was a devout petrol head until I bought my first Olds Custom Cruiser with the big 7 litre V8 diesel. That engine covered 460,000 miles + without ever having the heads lifted. I owned it for 4 years and put in oil (sporadically) and windscreen washer fluid. Blue clouds were restricted to February early morning start-ups and then the only clue that it was a smoker was the thudding of the cylinders reverberating every other lamp-post. It was noisy, but reassuringly so! That basic design started life as a petrol engine so I suppose it speaks volumes about how robust the engines are to consider that with very little rejigging they can magically develop into diesel engines. I think I must have cried when I sold that car.

I digress! Our Winnie weighs in at almost 7 tonnes with the 6.5 Chevy Turbo D. It will never ever win any land speed records, there isn't a hill in the country it won't climb (eventually) and the gearbox is the slickest bit of engineering I've ever encountered.

There have been several mentions of the electrical control systems now fitted to the engines and gearboxes of all modern engines. I think that the thing to remember is that the key word here is ALL. There is no discrimination between petrol or diesel as to which ECU fails first.

We considered the LPG conversion option but I suppose that the key thing to remember is that when fitting something like that 'after market', it is one more very complex dangly bit that can go wrong.

Much as I love the idea of paying lot's less for fuel, the things that I considered were; the length of time before the chancellor realises that he is losing some serious revenue from increasing LPG sales is directly proportional to the speed at which the AutoGas fill up points become more widespread in the country.

Full timing and washing machines! Hmm! A washing machine was top of Jill's hit list when we started looking at RV's. And now? We bought a second hand spin dryer (£5.00) which weighs in at a measly 23kg and a brand new mini Thompson tumble dryer (22" x 19" x 20"(£60.00)) which fits in the bottom of the wardrobe. Our washing machine is a Stu style 'sit it on the counter-top' thingy and copes with everything we throw at or in it. All of it takes up so little space and weighs so little that we wouldn't even consider a 'proper' washer/dryer any more.

Just so you can get an idea of our thinking, Martin, we bought the Winnie as a stopgap. We will be going full timing soon but bought the Winnie to work out what the logistics were and to establish exactly what WE would need. Our intention is to look to upgrade to a newer or different one when we realise what we are missing or what we don't need for the long term. She's a 1995 31RQ and we paid £26k for her from a dealer. If we sell her or PX her within the next couple of years, our losses will be minimal.

At the end of the day, everybodys ideas will be different about what you need or want, but your needs will only become apparent when you have made the leap. What we thought we needed and what we actually do need are divided by compromise, improvisation and financial constraints.

We have got on so well with the Winnie so far, that it will be hard to imagine us changing it until it becomes very, very necessary.

I probably haven't helped much, but my humble opinion is all I have.

Take care and good hunting.

Mike and Jill.


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## zaskar

foggyparrot said:


> Hi Martin and everyone else
> 
> ................. Our washing machine is a Stu style 'sit it on the counter-top' thingy
> Mike and Jill.


Mornin' Mike  
Could you give more details re the washing machine please as SWMBO is interested.

ps. Booked Cloverfields for next w/e. Had a look on Saturday in the car. Nice place. The owner (cant remember her name) is a lovely lass. I mentioned your name and she hit the floor laffin!  Said, "tell Foggy he's gonna get a good hiding next time he comes!"


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## geraldandannie

Hi, Zaskar

Type *portable washing machine* into google, and you'll get some hits like:

*** this ***

and

*** this ***

and

*** this ***

They're all powered machines, although you can get hand-operated too. I know Dave (656) and Stew (artona) on here have this type.

Gerald


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## olley

Hi Gerald, that twin tub from towsure looks good, just watched the video, might go for that. A lot less work than making a normal one fit. 

But then I won't have the fun of working out all the details, for the electrics, plumbing and cabinetry work. :lol: 

Olley


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## 88927

Hi Gerald
I believe that the washer that artona has is very similar to the Mailspeed Marine unit. It is hand operated and quite lightweight. We gave it to Stewart and Shona (it was originally given to us by Karl (grommet) but we had nowhere to store it) and it certainly seemed easy to use, although we never actually used it :lol: 
Maybe Shona can let you all know if they are any good, because it did seem a good idea with no real parts that could fail, I liked it....
Don't know about Dave's machine so cannot comment.
Paul, neither have I ever seen a diesel in an MG, but there is a V12 petrol version somewhere (or used to be anyway).
I had not realised that the more modern diesels were also crammed with electronics, so apologies if my comments were off the point, I was really referring to the older type with a tank, a pump and a motor :lol: :lol: 
Anyway good luck in the search for your RV

Keith


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## foggyparrot

Thanks for posting the links Gerald, and Olley (I've PM'd you), we decided to go for the single washing machine because we already had the spin dryer.

A point to note is that the twin tub's spin speed isn't that great. We found that the combination of the two was more versatile mainly 'cos often, you just chuck a couple of smalls in the sink and give them a quick swish. then chucking them in the spin dryer brings them out almost dry 'cos as everyone knows, the biggest problem is drying not washing.

Right, I'm fed up with being a girl now so I'm going to talk man things.

I'm taking the tub chair out of the Winnie and replacing it with a custom built PC workstation (the required cabinetry work!!). We rarely use the tub chair and my design maximises the space for extra storage. Sat next to the PC on the floor will be that aforementioned tumble dryer, permanently sited so that the wiggly pipe thing can be draped out of the little window by the door.

This serves several purposes. We both have permanent cricks in our necks from sitting and watching the TV (sited at ceiling level over the front of the dash), so the PC monitor will also double as the viewing screen for the TV/DVD/SKY. At our age ice packs are usually warm before they have taken effect on the aches after an hours viewing!

I will keep a photographic record of progress should anyone be interested.

I will be interested to hear from full timers who have kept the requisite TV at an abnormally high level. Mainly because I don't believe that they will now be able to look down at the keyboard long enough to type a reply.

Mike and Jill.


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## zaskar

foggyparrot said:


> I will be interested to hear from full timers who have kept the requisite TV at an abnormally high level. Mainly because I don't believe that they will now be able to look down at the keyboard long enough to type a reply.
> Mike and Jill.


L.O.L  Must admit we have. Mainly cos there's not really any place else to put one other than on the dash itself. Dont really fancy cutting into the dash to "sink" a TV in there (as it was in my last Gulfstream). 
Have seen a couple of RV's with flat screens placed on the dash. I find "my" seat to be the bucket chair, fully reclined with my feet up on the front chair, stops the crick in the neck  Could also have something to do with being bone idle!  No way can the TV up there be comfortably watched from the front seats.


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## olley

Hi son-in-law bought me a lafuma, put the slide out and there's room for it, so I can recline in comfort and watch the hi-level telly, unfortunately there's only room for one. :lol: 

Olley


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## kijana

Marion & I decided on day one the TV was a) too huge and b) too high.

The best seats in the house are driver's and passenger's, and those are the ones we wanted to watch TV from. No chance of looking up almost vertically. Since the seats swivel 180degrees, we reckoned the best place for a TV was at eye level on the aft face of the slideout wall.

So we bought a 19" LCD flatscreen and I'm making a bracket to quick-mount it onto that wall. Has to be flush with bracket removed so the slidout can retract. Will also do a table top stand so the TV can go on the dinette table when the slideout is in.

The TV lifts off the wall bracket & slots into a purpose made cradle flush with the bedroom wall for transit purposes.

We are also losing the reclining barrel chair as being surplus to requirements, free to anyone who wants it!

So now we can watch TV in comfort across an open, uncluttered living room, without needing surgery in the neck bones.

Bruce


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## 98452

How would you dry all this washing while covering all these miles at the same time? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## foggyparrot

I don't suppose anyone has thought of opening a naturists park purely for motorhoming, if so I fear there would be a European washing machine mountain, all surplus to requirements.

The only compulsory bit of clothing is a softneck brace for TV watchers!!


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## DABurleigh

"How would you dry all this washing while covering all these miles at the same time?"

Didn't you see the photos of the knickers on the pole at Binton?

Dave


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