# Its damp & its rotten - advice please!



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi! I wish we'd had the forethought to look for a site like this 2 weeks ago .... before we bought our first motorhome! If we had, we'd have recognised the signs of the dreaded damp that we've since found (sob!). 

My partner & I have just bought a 1995 Mitsubishi L300 Explorer (import from South Africa), which is a coachbuilt 4 birth motorhome, for £4,500. 

As novices (& idiots) we didn't recognise the signs of damp - the most obvious I now realise being the dozen or so airfresheners that the previous owner had hung everywhere! We have both since handed notice of our jobs as we have planned a 6 month trip round Europe. We had planned to leave within the next few weeks, for the purpose of doing voluntary work in various countries before trying our hand at some winter sports (so a warm, damp free vehicle is fairly crucial!!) 

We have since discovered (due to the eendlessrain!) more than one area of damp: the front righthand side panel stretching from over the cabin to about 1/3 way to the back is actually soft with rot, and there is a small leak in the back lefthand corner. 

So, as complete novices, we are now faced with a ddilemma which I would really appreciate any advice on: 

1. SELL, SELL, SELL? 
2. Go with the professional quotes we've had to re-seal the whole van, including windows, which would cost nearly another £2, 000? 
3. Try sealing the joins and windows ourselves (did I mention we've had solid rain and have nowhere dry to park?) 
4. Leave it and hope it doesn't fall apart, or worse, we both end up with pneumonia!! 

We are both quite accomplished DIYers, but the wet weather & time constraints mean that major work (like replacing rotten panels) would have to wait till we come back, at which time we hope to sell it again (much hope??!!). 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE any advice on how to resolve this (what feels like) major setback on realising this lifetimes dream? 

Regards 

Alison 

P.S. Any recommendations for caravan/motorhome service & repair specialists in Leicestershire area?


----------



## 107088 (Sep 18, 2007)

Oh Lumme.


You, is definitely in between the devil and the deep blue sea.

If you sell it now, you must rely on a buyer as innocent as you were, and be able to smilingly palm off your vehicle as the seller did to you. What would you reasonably expect to get from the sale of a rotted and very wet, not damp, vehicle?.

Incidentally did you buy it privately or from a dealer? If you bought from a dealer, you will, I think have redress. If privately, unless you have written confirmation you asked and were told the vehicle wasnot damp, you are stuffed.


So, the thing is, unless you are prepared to write off the entire 4.5K then you must get the vehicle repaired if....the vehicle will be worth it in the end and will be suited to you for a number of years. 

Bear in mind that 4,500 squid would be the depreciation on the cost of a newish motorhome, it maybe better to dump it, right it off to experience, or you got to bite the bullet and have it repaired. I dont think you can reasonably leave it to the end of a lengthy travel over the winter months, especially, as you have to consider the we will only get worse and worse as the time goes on.

Sorry, been something of a harbinger of doom, but....dont think I is wrong.


----------



## Rockerboots (Jun 15, 2008)

What a bummer, i got caught like that myself once , thankfully not quite the same amount was spent.

I would ask myself, could i afford 2 grand to have the work done properly? (bear in mine that if it`s done professionally you should get a decent garantee on the workmanship etc)

If the vehicle is generally tidy & not too high mileage would you keep it for a few years & get your moneys worth, or off load it once your trip is done.

Can you afford to write off 4.5k? to add 2 grand for the repairs would bring you in at 6.5k which still wouldn`t be a total disaster as even on ebay the average price for a good used MH from the early 1990`s would stand you 8-10 k.

Lots to think about & if you decide to go for repairs be sure to use a reputable firm, ask as many questions as you like to see what your getting for your money & maybe press them for a few free extras.

Good luck Andy.


----------



## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Didn't pay by credit card by any chance, did you ?


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for everyone's input. Its fantastic to find a place where people are willing to help just to be, well, helpful. How rare is that?! 

We bought this privately, & didn't pay for it by credit card unfortunately. But we may take the advice left in a similar thread of getting in touch with the seller to see if he really did intend to flog us a lemon, or feels guilty enough to come to a more decent arrangement (although I'm prepared for an "oh well" response!) If not, we agree that its still better to address the problems, and hopefully have learnt from our mistakes! 

We've found this forum to be a really great resource, with lots of helpful people, like yourselves. Due to the weather & no shelter, we will probably get it sealed professionally (have since been given a more reasonable quote), and then replace the rotten panels ourselves when we get back from Europe, as all the information & support on the site has given us confidence in being able to do this. 

Thanks again for the advice!


----------



## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi,

Don't be too hard on yourself. Others on here have done similar, got the t shirt and wore the hat.

Give Brian at TUI Motorcaravans a ring. 01302 711661. They are excellent trustworthy and very reasonable..
On the day I was going on holiday last month I found water pouring from underneath the van. Having seen recomendations for them on these forums and as it was on my way I contacted them. They told me to bring the van in on my way up the A1 and they would see what could be done.
Despite being very busy they re-arranged their work load to try to fix my van. It turned out to be a fairly major problem. Two guys worked on it on and off from 1.00pm till 6.30 pm The charge was £148 including parts.
Have a look at their website. Im sure Brian will do everthing he can to make your Mh useable for your forthcoming trip.
Its not far from Leicester. its actually as near to Nottingham as it is to Doncaster. Just 4 miles off the A1 At the very least you will get an honest quote. Hope it all works out for you. Good luck Maggie


----------



## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Hi Alison,
You seem to be keeping a positive outlook - good on you.
You desctibe your plans as "a lifetimes dream" - would it not enhance your enjoyment to delay departure by a couple of weeks & repair the inside now?
Short term loss for long term gain?


----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Kelkat has a point.

Much easier to fix things at home where you have access to all your tools and facilities - and don't have to live in it while you do the repairs (if a fix became urgently necessary). :?

You also have plenty of expert members to call on for help if you need it. 

Bears thinking about!!

Best of luck with it, and don't do too much self-flagellation. Yours was a _relatively _inexpensive mistake. Many others have made much bigger cock-ups!!


----------



## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

Trading standards? Knowingly missold????


----------



## patman (Jan 1, 2007)

Evening all
I found myself with a similar problem of having damp problems with a coach built and it does come as a bit of a shock. Luckily I posted on here and had enough encouraging replies to persuade me to do the job myself.
What started out as a fairly small patch of damp soon turned into half of one side of the van but it was fairly straight forward once I started and took out the furnishings. If you are fairly competent then I would think you could do it yourselves. It's also a lot cheaper and very satisfying.
Regards Patman


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

This might not be what you want to hear but of all your options I would be wary of paying professionals £2k to "seal it" if this is short of totally replacing everything that has rotted in the bargain. It would only be a patching bodge, albeit an expensive one.

Dave


----------



## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

You cannot do better than TUI at Bawtry, Doncaster as Maggielou says. They are your best hope of a really sensible plan and quote. New Zealanders who are likely to have understanding of your aims - and ability to do some work yourselves. Will be able to tell you what can be left until later, and what can't.

More importantly, if this is wrong, then they'll have a look round to make sure everything else is safe too! Someone else was on here a couple of months ago, with exactly the same dilemma. Bought a wet one. Have not heard how they got on, but there are a lot of posts about DIY fixes. I'm not good at links, but I looked for posts by Debbs07. This is the member who had the problem.


----------



## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*m/h damp*

Sorry to hear your demise - you are not the first and you won't be the last! Always but always remember caveat emptor (buyer beware) no matter how trusting the seller seems to be. If you have signed or recieved a reciept 'sold as seen' then you will, in law, have little redress.

My advice would be, first try the seller. You have nothing to loose, try getting the money back under a veiled threat of taking action via trading standards or small claims court (look for evidence of repairs to damp area etc. to prove knowingly mis-sold). Even if you loose say £500 as 'compensatory' loss to the seller it may be worth it.

If that dose not work you are stuck with it and you have to consider repair options. Can you do it yourself there are lots of places to get info on damp repairs do a google on the make and year and problem etc, If you can't do it yourself get several quotes for he job from reccomended repairers but it won't be cheap anyway cheap can turn out to be dear as the case in point.

Lastly, I might be wrong but I don't think there is any way you will get a reliable m/h for £4500 for touring the dark continent! You will have to consider a more expensive option.

Good luck in your quest,

Graham


----------



## Gonewiththewind (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I have to say, And I don't mean to sound pompous or pious, but knowing the average price of a Motor Home, I suspect that it was sold as seen, and should have expected problems. IMHO I don't think you have any redress from any one and if you spend the extra money on repairs, you will still end up with a reasonable priced van.
Truly Sorry.
Don


----------



## Pusser (May 9, 2005)

Tricky one. Stick it in an auction is a possibilty and lose a bit or a lot maybe. Hope someone steals it. 8O Go on holiday to Wales and park by a swollen river and hope for more rain.

And then by another m\home from a dealer where you have redress.

I think £2000 is a tip of the iceberg to the bill you will end up with when the restorers unsurprisingly find loads more work they didn't quote for.

Rent a garage and strip it all down and do the work yourselves and then you know it is done properly.


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Well, so many replies I did not expect! We do appreciate all of your input & its given us lots to think about. It sounds like we really need to visit this place in Doncaster before we do anything else, to get their expert opinion on our best option. 

I do think we're going to have no choice but to get them to at least make our van waterproof, though. To do it ourselves, well, have you seen the weather forecast for the whole of the UK?! Having nowhere sheltered to park means we've got no chance of having a go at DIYing it. 

However, we've got family in France, & seen as its 32 degrees there today (lucky ***s!), we think we're going to have a go at doing the interior repairs when we get to theirs. We can buy the recommended sealants, etc with us, but they've got plenty of tools, so a much nicer option than coping with the misery of this weather, don't you think?! 

We did realise all along that we got a cheap van, but I think when we initially discovered these problems we were overcome with doom, damp & gloom! We now have a much sunnier outlook, thanks to all your suggestions & encouragement, and seen as mechanically the van is sound, we hope to eventually end up with a decent home for the next 6 months. Thanks to all!


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I've still got this bad feeling all you think that needs doing is weatherproofing and tacking things from the inside. I rather suspect major surgery is more like it :-(

Dave


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm hoping that by taking it to be looked at by TUI we'll get an honest opinion & realistic idea of exactly how much surgery will be required to make our poorly Mitsubishi better!

Yes, I am hoping, though, that between ourselves & these blokes we will be able to fix this. However, I realise that we'll probably be needing to do a few internal organ transplants rather then being able to just splint things up & leave it to heal itself. But obviously, if the prognosis is bleak, we'll make the decision then about whether we should put it (& ourselves?!) out of it's misery. How d'you like all the clever euphemisms (not so clever is that I had to look this up!)?

Well, wish us luck & here's hoping to a new improved bionic van?!


----------



## machilly (Feb 10, 2007)

Like yourselves my wife and I got caught out with a leaky van.
We went to look at it at night, big mistake, it looked dry inside, and everything seemed to be okay.We realised that the seller's wife's tears at seeing the motorhome was tears of joy, not of sorrow.
After a few weeks we started to notice the leaks, and the rust coming through.
Then a few months later we had a stroke of luck, some old guy hit the back of it while it was parked and he did a runner, again luck, someone got his number and he admitted all, after getting quotes from various dealers we reckoned it would get written off, after all they couldn't get matching panels, trims, etc.
To my surprise the insurance guy was a restoration freak and reckoned it could be repaired, after all the old guy's insurance was paying.
Three months later, we had a hired car for that period, and hotel bills as we used the m/home for business.
The final bill was £10,000, for a van wort no more than £3000.

So in the end and still leaking, I traded it in for a Brand New Hymer, which we live in full time.....so my advice is trade it in while you can.

regards


----------



## Gonewiththewind (Nov 17, 2007)

Good luck and hope it all ends well. Doing the restoration in France makes me green with envy. Whilst I was at the Warwick show earlier on in the year, I saw a demountable M/H but all the seems were covered in plastic padding, not just spots here and there, but from end to end. I fully expected to find a hippy couple, but no it was an elderly couple. As he said, we are retired, on a miserable pension, cant afford one of these all singing, all dancing vans. This has been down through Italy, Spain, Portugal and every where east and west between. Given us much pleasure and happiness. I suppose the moral is, we would all like the latest M/H with the very latest watsit and thingamajig, But like the guy at Warwick, I too am on a miserable pension, and spent my kids inheritance on a M/H not fashionable or latest designer, but it does the thing, and yes I whent down to Spain, through France and enjoyed myself no end.

Good Luck

Don


----------



## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi,

If you take it to TUI before going to France to attempt the repairs. I'm sure brian will, for a very small sum, inspect it, give you an idea of what needs doing and advice on how to do it and the tools required.

Good luck
maggie


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Just heading off to TUI this morning for a service & thorough inspection! We're hoping that if all ends well, we can leave it with them for a few days so they can work their magic. We'll let you all know how it goes. 

Thanks again for all your words of encouragement (& friendly banter!)


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Ok, so its bad news! My poor partner was gutted when Brian from TUI finished his service & inspection with a verbal thumbs down! 

Brian told us that although these Mitsubushi vans are great for conversions and very reliable, our damp problem goes deep - even the frame in the front right hand side is rotten! He said it'd make a good project van but the repairs would be too time consuming & costly to get it done professionally. He said he wouldn't even consider just sealing it as he reckoned the side would fall off when he took the joining strip off! Devastated! 

BUT, after wiping away our tears, we've pulled ourselves together and given us a good talking too. And we're not giving up yet! We are going to try to go back to the seller to see if the threat of court action (for mis-representation) prompts him into coughing up a contribution. Unlikely, we know, but worth a try. We've also decide to continue with our plans of tackling the interior repairs ourselves when we get to France. We'll have the time to do this and with a little help from all you experts, we hope to maybe even enjoy the challenge (naive again?!). If all goes wrong, well, at least we tried! 

So, I'm going to start a new thread with advice on tools, methods, materials to buy. Wish us luck! 

Alison


----------



## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Alison, 

I made same mistake ..


My suggestion, go and see a farmer, pay him £100 a month, upfront, and give him your story, and spend a few weeks replacing anything thats seen water, in a dry barn....

you will enjoy it 

John


----------



## maggielou (Mar 25, 2008)

Hi

Sorry its turned out so badly. Definatey go back to seller and try.

Hope you got a report from brian at TUI to show them. Then go forward on the "not fit for purpose" theme.

It may be worth your while at least instigating the beginnings of the Small Claims Court procedures to show them you are serious.

At least get the forms and fill them in and plonk them in front of them.

Bear in mind that the arbitrators at the small claims court are not like a proper court. Its their job to take a common sense and fair view.

I have won two cases in the small claims court.

Good luck whatever you decide to do. Maggie


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

You might like to share with MHF, for its advice, the advert from which you bought, and your questions/ seller's answers wrt quality/ fitness for purpose.

It should then be pretty clear to what extent it is worth pursuing matters with the seller.

Dave
(I wish you wouldn't continue to make me nervous talking about "interior repairs" - sort out ALL the damp from the STRUCTURE first, and only then deal with the cosmetic stuff on either side.)


----------



## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

I would imagine Brian has told you what needs doing, and which bit needs to be done first! I keep thinking it could have been much worse, you could have handed over 4K and found they mended it over the top of dodgy structure. Brian is ruthlessly honest, so not likely to be any surprises!

Very very good luck to you - just think every little bit of wood/nails/glue you do is saving about 100 quid a foot :lol:


----------



## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Sorry to hear such bad news. 
However you now know where you stand & with the help of MHF can start to make some progress. If you decide along the CCJ route then you can do it on line - really easy process

On line County Court

Personally I'd agree with Dave - put up a text of the advert & get some more free advice from on here as to what your chances are - for a £4.5k CCJ your looking at an upfront cost of about £160 (ish) with HMCS.

If TUI have said it's into the structure I'd really think long & hard about a DIY job - your moving into the realms of whether or not the van is safe. If it is _just_ serious cosmetics I'd add a couple of months to your trip & do it up in France - adds to the adventure :?

Best wishes & keep us informed. 
k


----------



## 116324 (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi

Ok, we were all "yeah, lets do it ourselves", but maybe we should be more "lets get our money back"!

So, I'm thinking its a long shot, as we bought it sold as seen, didn't actually bid through ebay but made a private offer after auction finished and we'd been to view it (honestly, we just didn't click with the whole air freshener thing) and have already spoken to him about compensation/part refund, with no success.

However, we do think he was aware, at least to an extent, of the damp, which he denied (but did then admit the owner before him had told him there was a leak but it had been fixed). We believe he actually covered up the worst of it himself with Fablon - the remains of the roll were found in one of the cupboards.

So, if you really don't mind spending more time in our aid, here is the ebay description of the van. We really, really, appreciate all your kind words & help.

_Mitsubishi Explorer Motorhome & 4-berth tent

Equipment: 
12V Lighting, Air Conditioning, Alarm, Awning, Blinds, CD Player, External Side Lockers, Fixed Double Bed, Grill, Hand Washbasin, Mains Hookup, Microwave, Radio, Sink, Solar System, Sunroof, TV, TV Aerial

For sale our Mitisubishi Motorhome which we have owned for the past 14 months and had loads of fun in, reluctantly having to sell due to kids all grown up and leavng home and partner with bad hip can no longer do travelling on long journeys.

Please note this motorhome has done 131,000 kilometres which equals 81,000 miles

Large double bed over the cab and another one in rear with a 4-berth stand alone awning which is only 6 months old and comes with 2 double inner tents which makes large accomodation.

Driving is a pleasure with power steering and air conditioning and has the latest remote control CD player with USB/Bluetooth and memory card facility.

This motorhome is very comfortable with lots of features including a 7 inch screen ditigal tv with built in freeview/rear CD player/new combination microwave/shower & toilet/petrol generator/ plus many more items included.

Many other features which are expected wih a motorhome ie 12v cigarette sockets/ditigal tv aerial/external 240v socket etc.....

Please feel free to e-mail any questions and any viewings are recommended._

So, what d'you reckon? My partner does remember him saying it was dry, but how do you prove that? Should we write a letter explaining our intentions of making a small claim, include a copy of the very depressing service report, and ask for a complete refund? Or ask for enough to cover cost of repairs (over 1/2 the price we paid him forr the van!)

Well, if I have to get on my bike with a tent I'm determined not to give up on this trip, so please keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## Kelcat (Apr 20, 2008)

Probably just me but I can't make that link work - won't cut & paste either


----------



## 115737 (Aug 19, 2008)

Kelcat said:


> Probably just me but I can't make that link work - won't cut & paste either


cut and paste it, then there's a space in it

Try this


----------



## 105514 (Jun 30, 2007)

Hi Alison
Having owned the exact same M/Home a few years ago in SA please make contact with Mr Larry Kruiter who owns Kempton caravans in Johannesburg and has an excellent record re sales & repairs.I have had 4 rigs of him over the years.

These vans have a different build to uk ones and have used different adishives to the uk ones
You can find his contact no's on the web site www.kemptoncaravans.co.za

It is cheap to give him a call I cant remember his workshop foremans name but I believe he is still there and has repaired hundreds of these vans and I am sure that he would give you a few tips.

You can say that Richie from Plettenberg bay (I sold him my White Land rover) has recomended that you speak to him.


----------



## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

"have already spoken to him about compensation/part refund, with no success"

How did that exchange go? I have to say, it's not looking good. Your word against their's. You've got to weigh the (small?) likelihood of getting some compensation from him, as far as I can see, on goodwill grounds if he maintains denial, against the continued hassle and frustration. I think in your position I'd be inclined to chalk it up to experience, resolve never to expose yourself like this again (it's easy to avoid, just get things in writing before parting with money) and move on. But don't tinker with the van, do it properly exposing ALL the damp in the structure.

Dave


----------



## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

If you can do a house, then this thing is peanuts. Don't do anything in haste, take more time out to think it over. Reckon it would all look better in a nice warm place too! Flippin' thing looks nice in the ad doesn't it?

Brian at TUI would have been the one to have told you if it was unsafe to attempt to repair it. In fact he would have advised you to scrap it. If he says it's do-able by yourselves, with a bit of help, then that's the bottom line.

I watched them building a new conversion whilst my van was in - it looked like a cross between shop and kitchen fitting! Nothing arcane about it at all - just a frame with panels on. I think I had expected to see the Forth bridge complete with girders! - Good luck with whatever you do, - Helena.


----------



## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> If you can do a house, then this thing is peanuts.


Aye, right. (See, 2 positives can make a negative!)

I think you may be just a tadd optimistic there.

A house only has to withstand 60 or 70 mph winds occasionally and even then may sustain some damage. A house is never subject to increased 'G' force from potholes. A motorhome gets them every time it is used.
We may not like the finish in some motorhomes but the structure must be sound just to survive.
I reversed up a 2 " kerb with a caravan once and a window fell out because of rot. Luckily it was in our own yard. There had been no sign of dampness inside the van until that moment. ( the fact that our 2.6 litre Land Rover was sometimes feeling the weight should have alerted us to the fact that the glass fibre wool insulation was saturated adding about 1/2 a ton to the weight.

It is good to encourage people but just a tiny bit of caution may be advisable. Hence my post on their other thread about stripping the inside and then taking a hard look at whether the job was do-able or even worth doing.


----------

