# 110v issues in US?



## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

If I were to ship my motorhome to the US because I wanted to use it there for 6 months - what issues would I have in terms of electric hook up? Would I need to make some changes so that chargers and electrical equipment all still worked?

Thanks

Chris


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## Patrick_Phillips (Aug 17, 2006)

The difference is not just the voltage. The Americans and Canadians use 60 cycle AC where we use 50 cycles. This mainly affects equipment which incorporates timing devices like a VCR. A mains clock is the obvious one which will run fast if the 110v is merely transformed to 240v. A fire would be unaffected.

You can get 110v to 240v step up transformers which will deal with the voltages but not the cycles.
A 110v to 240v inverter, on the other hand should deal with both but make sure it has a full sine wave output for sensitive equipment such as televisions.

Before you go and equip yourself with a 3000 watt inverter, do look at what you will be using. It is cheaper to buy a new kettle than invert the US supply to 240v and use a European one.

So, I guess the answer is to replace the heavy usage chep items like toasters and hairdryers when you get there and then get inverters to use for the rest.

Hope that makes sense
Patrick


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

I've not managed to find a definitive answer to this question, which is one I am now researching for a two-RV 2011 trip to Canada & the US.

Our RV - unusually - was built to UK spec in the US factory in 1999 before it was exported to the UK, so it's fully kitted as a UK 240v vehicle. There is no 110v equipment on board whatsoever.

We will of course have the option of using the on-board genny, but I've been tasked with finding out what options there are to step up the 110v supply to 240v (and I fully take on board the 50/60Hz issue) as it's not practical to assume we will be able to use the genny 100% of the time.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Dougie.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Working in Saudi it was quite common to have 110v equipment working from 220v mains and vice versa. The biggest problem as I see it is the current. It will need to be a hefty transformer to be rated at 10amps or more. [Remember that halving the voltage doubles the current for the same wattage].


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

rayc said:


> Working in Saudi it was quite common to have 110v equipment working from 220v mains and vice versa. The biggest problem as I see it is the current. It will need to be a hefty transformer to be rated at 10amps or more. [Remember that halving the voltage doubles the current for the same wattage].


So is it simply the case of sourcing a 110v-240v transformer (inverter?)? And is there a specific type which deals with the cycles issue?

Dougie.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Dougie, the first thing is to determine whether the frequency is actually critical for the equipment.
http://www.epanorama.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1964

What it is saying is that you should get a 110/220v transformer rated for 60hz. The 220v/60hz arriving at the equipment should not be a problem unless it is a motor which derives its speed from the mains frequency. In the case of clocks/ timers etc they will just run fast [ i think that is correct] but as long as you know that and do not depend on it then no problems. I do not think there will be any problem with things such as the battery charger / fridge / water heater / pump etc.

If you really do need to convert then it is not cheap, I have never sourced a 'domectic' type converter so i do not know the price.

My problem is understanding where the 110/220v transformer is going. I guess it has to be connected before the 220v enters the MH via the normal mains i/p. Did you intend having a waterproof transformer located outside the MH connected between the site mains board and the MH?

Ray

Ray


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

rayc said:


> Dougie, the first thing is to determine whether the frequency is actually critical for the equipment.
> http://www.epanorama.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1964
> 
> If you really do need to convert then it is not cheap, I have never sourced a 'domectic' type converter so i do not know the price.
> Ray


Thanks Ray. I will need to convert, otherwise nothing will work.  I'm quite sure that cheap won't be part of the equation.

Dougie.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

asprn said:


> rayc said:
> 
> 
> > Dougie, the first thing is to determine whether the frequency is actually critical for the equipment.
> ...


What part of the MH will not work if you have 220v/ 60hz rather than 230v/50hz?


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

rayc said:


> What part of the MH will not work if you have 220v/ 60hz rather than 230v/50hz?


If I knew the answer to that, I wouldn't bother asking these damn-fool questions here.  I've read various views whilst researching this, and a couple of them are adamant that it could cause some equipment some issues.

Let me turn the question around then - which of the following will NOT be affected by the above differential:-

* battery charger
* Electrolux aircon units
* microwave oven
* convector heater
* DVD player

I do have a beefy 12v/240v inverter which would run the DVD & TV (that much, I do know :roll: ).

Dougie.


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Many of the electronic pieces of equipment ie those with switch mode power supplies, can accept 50 or 60 Hz and 110V to 250V look at the labels or read the spec. Your charger may be amongst them. 

This still leaves you with the difficulty of the rest of the 230V distribution the breakers and wires for example will be rated for the currents expected with 230V rated loads not 110V which would be double. 

Most things like heaters wont work on half the voltage

Most things like TVs won't work because the US TV system is different. 

I would leave my RV at home and hire buy in the US or Canada.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

sallytrafic said:


> Many of the electronic pieces of equipment ie those with switch mode power supplies, can accept 50 or 60 Hz and 110V to 250V look at the labels or read the spec. Your charger may be amongst them.
> 
> This still leaves you with the difficulty of the rest of the 230V distribution the breakers and wires for example will be rated for the currents expected with 230V rated loads not 110V which would be double.
> 
> ...


Thanks Frank. I hadn't thought to research the existing equipment on the van, particularly the charger. Whilst I assume it *might* be possible to replace trips with higher rated ones, the wiring will of course remain a constant, which I guess blows the possibility of running 100v straight into the van, out the water.

Buying or renting an RV whilst out there is a possibility, and also one which I'm researching. There has to be a fixed-cost base for the trip though, which shipping provides (not as expensive as you might think). On the other hand, there's lots to be said for letting someone else's van take the strain. 

Dougie.


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## MyGalSal (Dec 8, 2008)

You hang on to things for ever and then decide 'Won't need that' and chuck it! Well, I held on to an article out of MMM for a couple of years and then threw it out last week! The article was written by a couple who shipped their van over to the States for a long tour (2 years) I think (it was a Chausson) and covered all various issues - such as voltage! Now I can't remember exactly what they said but it was basically that they sourced a transformer on arrival and it did the trick.
Like RayC we have worked in Saudi and both 110v and 240v were in common use and other than that you could never rely on a clock to tell the right time everything worked OK. (Those who have worked in Saudi will recognise a connection here - clock, right time etc. That must be the reason why our ethnic hosts were never on time ...if they were there at all! but I digress :lol: )
We did a 4 month trip in Arizona a couple of years ago and hired from Cruise America. Got a fair deal for such a long term rental: RV was fine, a couple of initial minor problems were sorted out quickly, efficiently and with happy smiley faces. Once we got over the initial dismay of having to drive around in such a brightly painted van we had a ball. Did enjoy no hassles with shipping etc and cost worked out about the same as if we had shipped for our trip but obviously longer trips/hire would be more expensive.
The Travel Consultant listed in MMM for USA is: Don and Ginny Campbell contacted by email via [email protected]. Perhaps they might have advice/definitive answers re voltage.
Sal


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## weldted (May 1, 2005)

*110 -240*

usa 110 volt 60 cycles uk 240 volt 50 cycles. Most equipment that has a motor in it will not like different frequences, if they run it may well shorten their life plus if you burn them out in the usa probems. some equipment like a laptop charger will run on anything from 240 down and different cycles. If it were me and you have the payload a coulpe of extra batteries and a good quality 2000 wat continis inverter
and when you get over there buy a 110volt to 12 volt h/d battery charger. 240 volt at 1 amp will use 23 amps at 12 volt allowing for power loss so work out what is the biggest thing you can do without and take it from there. Remember that batteries should not be recharge at more that 15% of there capacity. One thing I would buy haing fitted one to our van is a battery to battery charger I have a 50 amp one and find it the best bit of kit I have bought. Do not forget you will need to make up and adaptor for gas unless you are going to use usa bottles Their tank connector is a male thread on the tank and female from the pump.


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## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

Hello Ceejayt

As previously stated in earlier posts clocks/timers will be an issue as will anything that specifically has labelling that states it must be 50Hz only, recommend you check everything carefully. 

New TV’s will be required and UK spec Videos/DVD/Games Consoles will not play on NTSC TV’s unless you purchase expensive NTSC and PAL compatible TV’s or your current Videos/DVD/Games Consoles etc are capable of outputting signals.

We have an American RV with 120Volt mains substructure; this has been simply converted to from 240 to 120 as follows: 
At point of entry from the 240 power supply is a 6KVA (6000 watts which is 25 amps at 240Volts) step down 240 to 120 volt transformer that supplies 115 to 120 (as the 240 in the UK fluctuates anyway) into the 120 volt substructure distribution unit. From there it is distributed through the coach to Fridge, A/C’s, Microwave, Inverter Charger etc. Three circuits have transformers ranging from 2KVA to 3KVA that step the 120 back to 240 to feed to the 13 AMP sockets around the coach. One of these circuits is from the inverter charger, therefore supplying 240 volts from the inverter charger to a few limited sockets when running off batteries.

Therefore the reverse scenarios will work for you; a good local sparks should be able to design the service for you.

Things to note: The supplies in the USA and Canada at camp grounds are either 30 Amp 120 Volts or 50 Amps 240 Volts – Warning the 240 volts supply is NOT the same as the UK. In the US 240 is derived by two lives and one neutral and earth and MUST not be used to power your MH as your infrastructure will not cope with it. Also you will need a new power lead with the 30 AMP US plug connected to your MH, remember that a 30Amp 120 volt cable will be very much heavier that our standard 240 volt leads as they have to manage much more current.

In our RV the Microwave is considerably more efficient when supplied by a 60Hz supply (from either the inverters or generator) than on 50Hz, therefore it will pay you to contact the manufacture of yours to confirm its operation on 60Hz as it may burn out the magnetron.

Personally I doubt it would be cost effective to undertake the conversion and shipping verses the cost of either renting or a purchase/resale deal in the US of a US spec unit.

I hope that helps?


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

SteveRV said:


> We have an American RV with 120Volt mains substructure; this has been simply converted to from 240 to 120 as follows:


Steve,

Thanks for your comprehensive input. Could you please clarify what you mean by "this has been simply converted *to from* 240 to 120"? Not being pedantic at all - I just don't understand exactly what you mean.



SteveRV said:


> Therefore the reverse scenarios will work for you


Are you referring to inputting 110v and stepping up to the 240v system currently in our RV? That's the scenario I'm researching.



SteveRV said:


> Personally I doubt it would be cost effective to undertake the conversion and shipping verses the cost of either renting or a purchase/resale deal in the US of a US spec unit


That's the sort of informed advice I'm asking for. Thank you.

Dougie.


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## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

Dougie,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you I lost my broadband access yesterday.

That was a good start a typo, thinking faster than I typed… 
It read “this has been simply converted to from 240 to 120 as follows:”
It should have read “this has been simply converted from 240Volts to 120Volts as follows:”

You ask “Are you referring to inputting 110v and stepping up to the 240v system currently in our RV? That's the scenario I'm researching.”

Yes very literally that, you have a transformer that transforms on a 1:2 up ratio, therefore 115 to 120Volts in, is transformed up to 230 to 240volts single phase for your infrastructure, allowing for voltage fluctuations. The only issue here is, if the local supply is a low as 110Volts you will only get 220Volts in the coach, which will be right at the lower end of power specifications, also a 30Amp supply will give you almost 15amps at 240volts, I say almost as there will be a slight loss due to service overheads, therefore if you end up on a 20amp site you will only get just about 10Amps at 240Volts.

For further consideration:
A soft start transformer, which is a transformer that has a slow start so when you first plug into the power pole (shore power), i.e. it prevents a massive inrush and reduces the times you may trip the power supply on first connection. Not completely necessary but worth thinking about.

What about the need to purchase a new/replacement kettle/TV/Toaster/Coffee Maker whilst in the States, you get the gist, they will be 120Volt and therefore you will need one of three options to power it:
1)	A completely separate 120Volt supply into the coach to North American socket outlets installed around the RV, say one behind the TV’s a couple in the galley etc.
2)	Use individual 2:1 ratio transformers to step down from 240volts to 120Volts; there are individual transformers available that plug into a standard 240Volt 13Amp socket with a basic two pin non earth American socket, and some with full Live, Neutral and Earth American sockets. I don’t know if these are physically available in the States, somehow I doubt it, therefore you would need to take a few with you – problem is what capacity and pin layout do you take, whatever you chose will be too big and produce too much heat for where they are located or not big enough for the item it needs to power.
3)	Have a new breaker provided in the 240Volt mains distribution unit (assuming space available) cabled to a 240Volt to 120Volt step down transformer and run a new ring main with a few North American socket outlets around, say one behind the TV’s a couple in the galley etc.

If you chose options 1 or 3, you need to get your sparks to allow for the fact that State side equipment draws on average twice the amps of the UK equivalent, therefore the cable used for these circuits needs to be of suitable size allowing for cable runs, locations and Amps etc.

Or if something packs up you just live without it for the duration and renew when you are back in the UK again.

Step up and step down transformer locations, ours are located in the external electrical distribution bays and not in the actual coach, reasons are primarily heat dissipation and noise. Not vastly noisy but do hum well when under heavy load.

That leaves the original issue of 60Hz supply, you really do need to do your homework with the manufactures of all the 240Volt kit (installed and being taken with you) in your coach, will 60Hz do any damage? Most kit has tolerance to run on reduced Hz, i.e. 50 instead of 60, but may not have the same tolerance the other way. If it uses the Hz for timing etc then you will have a major problem. Hence the homework required.

Sorry that goes on a little, I hope that helps?

Forgot to ask have you looked into the shipping costs from here to there and back and travel for the family? I would be interested in knowing what that was, pure interest and being nosy that’s all.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Steve,

Again, thank you - extremely good of you. It's becoming clearer as each day goes by, that the scales are coming down on the side of simply buying an RV in the US, doing the trip in it, and selling it a year later at the end.

To answer your question on shipping, for my RV (10m x 2.6m x 3.5m, 8.5t) it totals around £4,000 each way, ballpark figure - probably from Southampton, although perhaps from Antwerp or Hamburg for less (but plus the costs taking it there, so probably no difference).

Add to that the US insurance costs for a non-US vehicle - my friend has had one quote so far for his RV (which is worth a lot more than mine) of $3,300/£2,250 so may be a bit less for me - and you're over £10k before any of the electrical considerations. Renting is crazy money, so that leaves buying, which is relatively easy. Biggest problem for me I can see is that the best deals seem to be in Arizona or California, about 3,000 miles from our trip start point (Halifax NS, Canada). I'm sure there are RVs for sale elsewhere in the US  say, Massachusetts which is where we're ending the trip, so I'm becoming more confident that I'll be able to get an A-class similar to mine - say, 7-10 years old for around $30k/£20k, and I doubt if I'd take a £10k hit after a year & 7,000 miles.

I know this is now somewhat off topic (sorry), but if anyone else has experience of buying, using & selling Stateside, your comments will be welcome.

Dougie.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

I think my camper was built from the point of view of an extended trip in the US, but with UK components. It spent several years going from Central America to Alaska.
Essentially everything is 12 or 24 volt. It has a 240v input socket on one side which runs a UK mains socket inside and a battery charger. The other side has a 110v input socket, which via "a box" feeds the same 240v circuit. I'll dig some stuff out of the way and see if I can find out what the box actually is. The fact that everything is 12 or 24 volt was perhaps to get over the 60Hz issue?

The other thing I know the previous owner and builder did was to extensively reseach ALL the equipment he fitted to ensure spares were available Stateside. So the loo, the hob, 24v microwave etc. Euro spec stuff may be hard to fix once there.

Reading of peoples trips to the USA on UK plates, the police often aren't too happy, and after long discussions persuading someone who hasn't seen anything other than US plates/paperwork etc that you really are legal, breathing a sigh of relief when they are only fined! Actually getting say from Canada into the US can also be awkward, since the normal requirement of having booked accomodation and a return flight home doesn't lend itself to camper travel! Choosing a quiet point of entry, and buying a flight home which you later cancel makes things a great deal smoother since it goes some way to prove you're not thinking of staying. If you get refused once, and then try again at another entry point they can be really quite hostile I'm told. 

Buying a camper there gives you a lower profile


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## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

Dougie,

I seem to be hogging this post now - don't mean to:

Are you a member of the FMCA? If not have a look at the web site and open forums, it could be worth a years membership just to access their forums and wealth of available assistance on all things RV in the US and Canada. We have been members for many years now. Also very useful source of information for parts and accessories for your RV over here as an example.

FMCA = Family Motor Coach Association who's URL is http://www.fmca.com/

They have many articles, stories and useful forums on many topics just like MHF, such as:
Motorhomes,
Technical,
Communications and Technology,
Travel,
Rights/Advocacy, and 
The good old Miscellaneous
All have their various subsections.

Apologies if the above is teaching you to suck eggs so to speak

It was some time back (well, well before the recent downturn) and sorry I can't find the article where I was reading about various RV dealers who were offering sales with agreed buy back terms for visitors to the US and assisting with such things as insurance and driving licence legalities etc, could be worth a series of emails to mainstream RV dealers and ask the question?

Good luck and enjoy, and I hope you get what you are looking for; for your extended vacation.


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

SteveRV said:


> I seem to be hogging this post now


Yeah, like you're stopping everyone else from posting. :lol: It's all good stuff.

I've not looked at the FMCA, but I sure will now- thank you. Sales with guaranteed buy-backs are - mmmm - very tempting (if I can find any).

Cheers,

Dougie.


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

The box in my camper is 8"W by 8"L by 8" deep, metal with heat dissipating louvres on one side. 110v in, 240v out. A label on it says 
Auto transformer type 1500 V/A rating. Conforms to BS 171 only. Frequency 50/60 Hz
Boardman Transformers, Hazel Grove, Stockport uk
If that helps at all?!


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

asprn said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> > Many of the electronic pieces of equipment ie those with switch mode power supplies, can accept 50 or 60 Hz and 110V to 250V look at the labels or read the spec. Your charger may be amongst them.
> ...


Dougie try Victron they will make anything you want ( Robert had a transformer designed and installed )

:Loddy


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

loddy said:


> Dougie try Victron they will make anything you want ( Robert had a transformer designed and installed )


Heh - I'm sure they will make anything you want, provided you throw enough money at 'em. :roll:

Anyway, we've adopted Plan B, which is we'll buy & use another RV when we arrive in the US, rather than ship ours over. Much simpler, and lots of bang for your buck.

http://tinyurl.com/2w8pa5q = £24.5k less £10k shipping costs saved = £14.5k. (By way of example.)

Dougie.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

How did you get on with year head job ??


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

loddy said:


> How did you get on with year head job ??


Don't ask. 

I put it into a reputable commercial vehicle repairers, and the boss himself did the work over a few weeks (I told hem "as & when"). He knows the Triton engine as he's built some kind of scary race vehicle with one in it.

They got the right-side manifold gasket changed, although as anticipated, broke several studs. I also asked him to remove & re-torque all 10 spark plugs as they have a habit of popping out on that engine if they're not torqued right. He did that, and I went to collect it last Thursday. When I started it, there was an alarming "TAP-TAP-TAP-TAP" noise coming from the left engine block, like a hydraulic tappet, although unlike a dry tappet, the engine was sweet when first started, and after 5 seconds, the tapping started & continued on idle. He'd taken it for a 4-mile road test, and said that it had always made that noise since it had come in. I assured him it had not ever done it beforehand, so he kept the van & called me back the next day saying that he could only think he had dropped some debris down a plug hole.

The long & short of it is that he's doing the honourable thing and removing the left head to try & find a foreign body in one of the cylinders. I've got a head gasket set (£251 for one side..) which he agreed straight away to take the hit for, and for his time as well, as he says it needs to be right. I've therefore asked him to change the left manifold gasket whilst it's on the bench (it already has broken studs...) and I'll pay him for that, as it's to my benefit.

The gasket stuff arrives tomorrow at the garage from the US, and I've not plucked up the courage to phone him to ask how things are going. I'm well depressed about it - I just hope no damage has been done to a piston, the head or the cylinder wall. It runs fine though, which is a good sign.

Watch this space. 

Dougie.


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

The worst part of getting forgien bodies on top of pistons is that it can close down the top ring groove and that pinches the ring and causes loss of copression 8O 

Loddy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a variety of 240 to 110 volt transformers I might be persuaded to part with.

5.5kva. 3.0kva. 2.2kva. and smaller. I think I also have a US 30 amp RV mains lead somewhere.

Ray.


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