# Greedy Campsite Owners!



## zaskar

Having found what is to me, a new site in Cheshire advertised in the back of the CC magazine, I thought I'd visit thier web site and take a look.
Looks nice if a bit pricey.............then the CLANGER!!!!!!

£1.50 per night for my cat who as far as I'm aware doesn't take showers, can't swim, doesn't use swings and slides, doesn't need a walk.......etc

So I sent them this..........

Dear Sir / Madam.

Having just seen you add in the back of the caravan club magazine, I am interested in booking a pitch for my motorhome. However, before I do so, I would be interested to know what expense/facilities have been incurred/supplied to justify the charge of £1.50 per night for my Persian Cat?

I look forward to your coments.


I'll let you know if they have the front/bottle/decency to even reply.
For diplomacies sake, I wont mention the name, suffice to say it's near Coddington, Chester, Cheshire.


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## 2point

I beleive this is an admin charge that they incur by having to inform GCHQ of potential Evil Dicators staying on site.

Additional charges are levied for small Phillipino butlers, large Sumo built chauffeurs(extra for Bowler hat) and an extraordinary charge for passengers over 7ft tall with suspicious metal teeth.

I hope they don't catch on and start charging for slinky model types who appear to spend most of the day draped over my rear fixed bed wearing little other than swimsuits.


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## DABurleigh

As the cat is not required on a lead, when outside the van you can claim it is someone else's, and inside the van you can claim it wandered in, and you are being a responsible citizen keeping it there to prevent the spread/mutation of bird flu.

Dave
http://www.cheshire-caravan-sites.co.uk/prices.htm


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## zaskar

2point said:


> I beleive this is an admin charge that they incur by having to inform GCHQ of potential Evil Dicators staying on site.


L.O.L. from frown to smile. Cheers matey! 

DABURLIEGH. Yoooooooooooou bad b*gger! 

I didn't dare


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## Shen

*Name and shame*

Paying for the cat is surely well OTT.

I am still nonplussed at the charge for my dog. I still don't see what costs he incurs the site. Oh the dog walk... right.. uh huh. He is insulted at being taken to a fifty yard bog, no pun intended. He likes a decent run, I cycle he runs and then we bag up when he "goes". So, as I am usually off site, where does this charge get justified?

IMHO under the heading in the site accounts: Successful Rip Off.

One site tried to ask me for £4.50. I told them I wasn't that desperate and there were heaps of more reasonable sites around, good bye.

We, as consummers, have to tell them that it has lost them money. That's the one message that gets through. That empy spot on their site is there because.. of their greed.

Shen


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## DABurleigh

I sent them this:

"Dear Manor Wood Caravan Park

Why the charge for a cat?

I recognise that your pricing structure is entirely your gift, of course, but when there seems little logic behind it other than "because you can", then you are open to negative publicity on the many websites that are frequented by your existing and potential customer base.

For example, the cat pricing issue for your site alone is highlighted on arguably the premier website catering for the UK motorhome community. It has over 9000 registered members.

Your sincerely

Dave Burleigh"

zaskar, no need to be so delicate. Your post is factual plus conveying your reaction. You can prove the facts. So no problem.

Dave


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## zaskar

DABurleigh said:


> I sent them this:
> 
> TREMENDOUS!!!!
> 
> If it ever kicks off around here i want you on my side :wink:


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## JockandRita

And as this really annoys us :x :x :x , we (I) have sent this...

Sir/Madam,
Before making a booking, could you please advise me as to your pricing policy with regards to cats/dogs? Could you also list the facilities that my very small dog might be eligible to avail himself of.

As a responsible pet owner, I am at a loss as to why one should feel the need to levy a charge for facilities, which are already provide....by me. Perhaps your levy is in lieu of, the amount of litres of fresh air my dog will consume during his stay with me.....the paying, responsible owner.

Regards,
Mr J K Tennent
Cravan Cub member,
Motorcaravan Club member,
Motorhome Facts member,
CSMA member


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## guzzijim

Do they charge extra for car towed with an A frame, ie. charged as an extra vehicle ? if so I will add them to my ever growing list, which I post on this and other sites from time to time.

I am happy running my 'unreasonable charges for cars on A frames' postings / list, why don't one of you doggie, pussy, hampster, dickie bird,reptile lovers, start a simple list of sites that are charging over the top for our dumb friends.


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## autostratus

I've just sent thre following e-mail:-

Dear Sirs 
We were hoping that shortly we would join some friends and stay at your campsite. On checking the prices we note that you charge £1.50 per night for a cat. 
My cat hates water and is therefore unwilling to use the showers. 
He toilets in a litter tray in the motorhome, 
He is never allowed out of the house, let alone the motorhome and is never going to soil your grass or borders, 
It is therefore unlikely you would even know he is with us and yet you still expect £!.50 for each night of our stay.
Can you explain to me how you justify this extra charge. 
My friends among the 9000+ members of the web based motorhome community, Motorhomefacts ( www.motorhomefacts.com ) will be interested in your answer. 
You may like to consider giving our community a discount when visiting your campsite; being added to our growing list could be in your interest even if in the off-peak only. 
I look forward to receiving your considered reply. 
Gillian xxxxx (Ms)


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## Rapide561

*CAts*

Hi

Charging for a cat or dog really, really annoys me.

At our local pub there is a £1.00 charge for a dog - but in return he gets a Sunday dinner and a bowl of water!

The sites I am liasing with in Italy for next year have charges for dogs, but they have all stated that as I am there for an extended duration, there will be no charge. One campsite has said the dog is welcome to use facilities except the swimming pool!

Shame, I think Oscar would look very fetching in trunks!

Rapide561

P S Come on Zulurita - add some fuel to this fire please


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## Scotjimland

guzzijim said:


> Do they charge extra for car towed with an A frame, ie. charged as an extra vehicle ?


No mention of towed cars or 36ft RVs :lol: :lol: :lol:

But it does say :

All cars to be parked in the car park at all times. :roll:


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## LadyJ

Im with u guys all the way and if you think £1.50 is bad what about this then £3 per night per dog at Unity Farm in Brean they also charge £2 per night for extra car

http://www.hru.co.uk/camping-tariff.htm


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## MOTORHOMER

LadyJ894 said:


> Im with u guys all the way and if you think £1.50 is bad what about this then £3 per night per dog at Unity Farm in Brean they also charge £2 per night for extra car
> 
> http://www.hru.co.uk/camping-tariff.htm


 

& only ONE SWIM A DAY for 32quid a night in August. Mmmm.

Motorhomer


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## 88927

Hi all
I am so impressed with this thread, this is what being a community is all about after all.
With all the emails flying around to this / these sites they "may" change their policy, although unfortunately I doubt it!!!
The best policy for us is to spread the word (as this thread has done) so that we can omit these greedy sites from our lists of places to visit, after all it is the pocket that will sting the most....

Well done all, and can I suggest that anyone reading this thread emails the site, asking for justification???

Keep it up

Keith


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## Rapide561

*e mail from gillian*

Hi Gillian

Very well worded e mail I can't wait for the reply.

Oscar is equally anxious!

Rapide561


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## Grizzly

*Re: CAts*



Rapide561 said:


> Shame, I think Oscar would look very fetching in trunks!
> 
> Rapide561
> 
> I suppose they are worried that he'd not be able to keep his bathing hat on ?
> 
> I'm totally against charging for "our dumb friends " (Quote guzzijim) but I'd happily FINE the owners of the yappy little dog who barked everytime anyone went within a hundred yards of "his" caravan last week.
> 
> G


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## Rapide561

*Pets*

Hi

One thing to mention. The principal reason for me ever buying a motorhome was so I could take the dogs with me.

I could not imagine putting Oscar or his close friend Jenny into the kennels.

These camp site owners know this. People who take their pets on holiday are probably of the same views as me. Hence they know they can get away with what they like.

On the other hand, my very first trip away with the Compass was to www.hookshousefarm.co.uk at Robin Hoods Bay.

The price was £10.00 for 2 x adults, 2 x dogs, use of showers etc and electricity and water from the tap.

I consider that excellent VFM and I am looking forward to returning there just after the Easter rush.

Rapide561


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## bertieburstner

Have you asked your cat whether it wants to go to this campsite? Surely it will love the facilities and be more than willing to pay for a lovely holiday, perhaps eating the resident rats and mice around the site, and dropping them off outside the camp shop each night. I know my cats would relish it and would consider it worth more than £1.50 per night.


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## barrosa

Hi up till now the c&cc do not charge for pets "the four legged kind" that is on the few sites that we have stayed on


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## 97932

*PussyCats*

We stayed at Manor Wood CL Last year and we were not charged for our two cats. We have been on different sites over the last 3 years and have never had to pay for them. Manor Wood is now off our list of revisits. We always ring up every site that we go on to make sure that the cats are allowed because you would be amazed at how many sites dont allow cats.Most sites say yes cats can come no charge. 8O


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## joe2369

just sent them a line to cofirm "Is this is correct "£1.50" for cat " the more people who contact them the better .


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## zaskar

Flippin' 'eck Guys!!!!!!    

I can't believe the reaction this has got and to be quite honest i'm dead chuffed.  
You know, sometimes, you sit there thinking,"is it me?"........
and then you get a reaction like this and you realise you're not alone  

I know it's not a lot of money (at all !) and for being able to take my best mate its b*gger all, but it's the principle of the thing.
If the rest of Europe can charge Pitch + People and then leave it up to you what you put on that pitch, why can't we?
Its always a quid for this, 30bob for that, couple of quid for the other...........e.t.c

Still no anwering E-Mail from them as of this morning (dead surprising-NOT!) but I'm not gonna let this lie :wink: 
I'll give them a week and then send them a "snot-o-gramme" and point them in the direction of this thread so that they can see how unpopular thier action are.

.............anyway, cheers Guys

Zaskar


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## Shen

*Pressure*

IMHO this is what site like this are all about.

Why do site owners charge? Probably because Fred down the road does and "I've had no complaints."

Let's face it we British are not famous for saying what we think in these situations. What is needed is a polite Email or letter to these sites saying your charging policy is considered by us to be unacceptable. We ask you to reconsider and please note that via your policy you are not only creating bad publicity for your site but are now actively on a list of sites deemed to be unacceptable to the forum.

I personally would consider that to be a bit of a shock over my morning toast. Might even sour the jam.... 

Shen


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## DABurleigh

Well, just got in and I've received my reply:
"We are currently experiencing problems accessing our email. Please contact us on 01829 782990 to discuss your query."

Now given they typed that they could have typed a simple answer to my question of why charge for a cat ......

Dave


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## autostratus

DABurleigh said:


> Well, just got in and I've received my reply:
> "We are currently experiencing problems accessing our email. Please contact us on 01829 782990 to discuss your query."
> Dave


I haven't had a reply.

If I was to make a guess I would suggest that they could be worried that the content of an e-mail may be copied in its entirety onto this site.


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## Scotjimland

I sent an email asking if they are they are seriously asking me to pay £21 for my cat on a 14 day holiday ..


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## 96180

I think the probem is wider than just charging for pets as already hinted at

For example why do motorhomers get charged if they have an extra car - surely this is little different than a car and caravan!
and why do some sites charge for a gazebo and not an awning!
then there are the extra charges for people which really add up - and whereas I can see why more people should pay more prehaps it would be fairer to pay per use for things like showers etc

we booked onto a site two years ago in cornwall stating we had a dog when we got there we were told they didn't take dogs in peak season - left us in a bit of a pickle as it was August bank hols!!!!!


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## Malc

I wonder.......if you use the CCC online booking service, there is a section which is not used asking for the number of dogs.....??????
Malc


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## 89555

I haven't had a reply either
I wonder why?
Jack


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## 89017

I'm not a cat lover by any stretch of the imagination but this sort of behaviour brasses me off.
Does anyone have any connections with Forums on Caravan owner web sites?
Spread the word, far and wide. 
Goodbye
bob


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## 88724

Hi all

a few points

1. Zaskar made a blanket statement that the rest of Europe dont charge except for the pitch itself, here is the first price list I called up (there are many more)  click here for Price list Note hond per dag 4 Euro and the rest of the extra's

BTW I have been to this site and you would be amazed at the managerie of animals and birds

2. A few people have thrown the collective weight of MHF behind their emails, should those of us who disagree send an email saying that the 9000 registered members are all in support? This requires some serious thought would you be happy If I sent an email saying MHF and its registered users are all for a block price increase and that cats and small yappy dogs should be barred?

In other words who died and elected you spokesperson? should anyone here be speaking on behalf of us all? without a referendum to decide what the collective opinion actually is?

3. You ask for their Justification in charging and yet when I asked what others here thought the subs were actually for, not one person stepped forward saying why the subs were justified (BTW I know why they are or I would not have paid, but it amazes me how many people have paid and have not got a clue why) BTW send me an email with your reason if you want, I am not trying to change the topic here its merely an illustrative point about charging, attitudes here and peoples thoughts.

This post is not meant to be antaganistic, its asking you all to think, especially before firing off emails on "our" behalf.

Bandwagons have an habit of running away with the passengers


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## DABurleigh

My post had the weight of MHF behind it, yet was factually correct and not presumptuous.

Dave


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## 88724

Hi Dave

I accept that it is, if read carefully not saying directly that the 9000 members (??) are behind you, but the implication and threat is certainly there.

A few people agreeing in one thread does not put the whole of MHF members behind it.

Unless I missed the vote, the weight of 9000 (??) members was wielded on a whim. 

Elsewhere someone thought that maybe increased insurance premiums for pet accepting sites may be one justification for the charge?

BTW I agree that some charges do not appear justifiable.


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## autostratus

GeorgeTelford said:


> 2. A few people have thrown the collective weight of MHF behind their emails, should those of us who disagree send an email saying that the 9000 registered members are all in support? This requires some serious thought would you be happy If I sent an email saying MHF and its registered users are all for a block price increase and that cats and small yappy dogs should be barred?
> 
> In other words who died and elected you spokesperson? should anyone here be speaking on behalf of us all? without a referendum to decide what the collective opinion actually is?


What nonsense, George.

It's obviously my post you object to. Why?
I don't speak for you and never purported to do so.
I wrote:-
*"My friends among the 9000+ members of the web based motorhome community, Motorhomefacts ( www.motorhomefacts.com ) will be interested in your answer."*
I could have just as easily written 'My friends among the x,xxx,xxx members of the Caravan Club........' and it would have been just as true.
I was quite precise and factual.


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## 88724

Hi Gillian

Actually its not just your post and being totally honest I agree with the fact that this charge is ridiculous.

But I am asking that some thought is given to waving the big stick on "our" behalf.

quote

*"My friends among the 9000+ members of the web based motorhome community, Motorhomefacts ( www.motorhomefacts.com ) will be interested in your answer." *

This is a very thinly veiled threat and implies the support of and maybe even the sanction of 9000 plus members.

Can a non member look and see that over 7000 have never made a post or that about 8500 have not made 10 posts or that in reality there are less than 190 Posters that have made 100 posts?

Maybe I am wrong (it will not be first or last time) but I think at least some kind referendum should be held, before the big MHF stick is waved.


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## sallytrafic

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Gillian
> 
> Actually its not just your post and being totally honest I agree with the fact that this charge is ridiculous.
> 
> But I am asking that some thought is given to waving the big stick on "our" behalf.
> 
> quote
> 
> *"My friends among the 9000+ members of the web based motorhome community, Motorhomefacts ( www.motorhomefacts.com ) will be interested in your answer." *
> 
> This is a very thinly veiled threat and implies the support of and maybe even the sanction of 9000 plus members.
> 
> Can a non member look and see that over 7000 have never made a post or that about 8500 have not made 10 posts or that in reality there are less than 190 Posters that have made 100 posts?
> 
> Maybe I am wrong (it will not be first or last time) but I think at least some kind referendum should be held, before the big MHF stick is waved.


But hang on George whether or not a member think cats should be charged for, the result of any reply would be interesting to either the 'for' or 'against' charging group and probably any of the 9000 that regularly browses this site. So it may be a thinly disguised threat but it is an accurate statement and in no way commits the whole membership to a view. For example given the propensity of cats to get lost when away from their normal surroundings I could easily take the view that cats shouldn't be allowed on campsites at all, but if I did I would still be interested in the reply. You never know the owner might agree with that hypothetical view.

Regards Frank


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## Rapide561

*CAts*

Hi

Power to the pussycats!

Rapide561


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## JockandRita

Hi folks,
Just got back from a weekend in Skeggy, (cold but sunny), and found the same reply that Dave got.

*We are currently experiencing problems accessing our email. Please contact us on 01829 782990 to discuss your query.

Regards

Angela Dutton

Manor Wood Caravan Park*

Obviously not experiencig problems at all, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to reply.
J & R


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## Raine

8O wow that amazed me to- and the same as ladyj the brean site, (which we booked at shepton (special offer) on being questioned about the charge for dogs, ( we have a small yorkie who I CLEAN UP after, ) said it was because they needed a kindofdogwarden to pick up! dear me i am getting hot under the collar thinking about it again! I agree i think some sites are just getting GREEDY , hubby was 8O at the price of the one in Gods hill, £21.00 a few weeks ago! Argh!!!!! and i thought about using the 9000 members thing to, i have also thought about making little cards saying, you are about to be recommended to motorhomefacts.com a motorhoming community of over 9000 for your 
lovely roast dinner
nice clean tiolets
nice park etc..... 
if i'd had one with me i would have given it to the waterside pub in Paignton, lovely roast good price. and then ask if they would give members a discount! Oh so bold, well why not.


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## joe2369

GeorgeTelford your right, this is a powerfull tool if used correctly

you stated!
Actually its not just your post and being totally honest I agree with the fact that this charge is ridiculous. 
But I am asking that some thought is given to waving the big stick on "our" behalf. 
quote 
"My friends among the 9000+ members of the web based motorhome community, Motorhomefacts ( www.motorhomefacts.com ) will be interested in your answer." 
This is a very thinly veiled threat and implies the support of and maybe even the sanction of 9000 plus members. 
Can a non member look and see that over 7000 have never made a post or that about 8500 have not made 10 posts or that in reality there are less than 190 Posters that have made 100 post

Maybe I am wrong (it will not be first or last time) but I think at least some kind referendum should be held, before the big MHF stick is waved.

this could be added to a section of sites to be blackballed if they fail the outcome we wished I read but rarely post but in touch with all stated on this and other sites remember the quite ones also hold a vote via were they spend there money " the most important vote of all " for these greedy site owners. so all keep all informed of this mis management of pricing I will not now visit this site as local as it is .


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## MicknPat

As a result of this thread I sent the following e-mail to Manor Wood Country Park:



> Dear Manor Wood Country Caravan Park
> 
> Following your advertisement in the CC magazine I visited your web site and was some what alarmed to see that you charge £1.50p for cats.
> 
> My daughter has a pet hamster and her younger brother a mouse and we a budgerigar.
> 
> The animals always accompany us in our motor home when we visit sites, so could you please give me some idea of what charges you would impose for those pets.
> 
> Regards Mr.Podmore


I have just received this reply:

Thankyou for your enquiry, firstly I presume your cat poo's like any other cat, presumally in a litter tray, unless you are accustomed to the smell of dirty cat litter you change the litter regularly we would therefore dispose of your cat litter at a charge of £1.50 per day. Secondly,WE DO NOT CHARGE FOR HAMSTER'S, MICE OR BUDGERIGARS. Perhaps we should.
Angela Dutton

So now you know what you are paying £1.50 for.


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## DABurleigh

Yes, I received a similarly ratty reply.

Dave


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## DABurleigh

2point,

That is entirely valid. Charging regimes often balance specific costs that arise from a subset of one's customers against overhead costs that are apportioned across all. In my experience they are applied in one of two ways, and typically differently in the public and private sectors. In the former, the principle is to be fair to all customers so that no customer is subsidised by another by more than a fixed amount, 10% say. In the latter, the charging regime is often used simply to maximise profit according to what the various groups of customers are prepared to pay.

In this case, guess which one applies? And note that the corollary is that, for a given level of profit, cat owners at this site will be subsidising YOU! 

Dave
Edit - Oh! Where's your post gone?


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## zaskar

As promised, here at last is thre reponse................and my response to her!



> Even Persian cats poo don't they ? We dispose of your cat litter
> Angela Dutton
> 
> NOT WHEN THEY DONT GO OUT AND ARE TRAINED TO A LITTER TRAY!!!!!!!!!
> ANY WASTE IS PUT INTO OUR ONBOARD TOILET TANK AND FRANKLY TO CHARGE £1.50 PER NIGHT FOR THE DIFFERENCE THAT MAKE IS RIDICULOUS, NOT TO SAY GREEDY.
> WITH AN ATTITUDE AND REPONSE LIKE THAT THIS IS ONE SITE I SHALL NOT BE VISITING AND ONE I SHALL WARN FRIENDS AND FAMILY ABOUT!!!!!!!


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## DABurleigh

zaskar,

Yes. Well that is indeed what I thought. What I wrote, however, was:

Angela,
Thank you for a courtesy of a reply, though I note it is actually shorter than the previous one I had explaining your email difficulties but which avoided answering the simple question.
As I said, your charging is entirely up to you, but I do consider your answer an insult to the intelligence of your customers.
Regards,
Dave Burleigh


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## 2point

DABurleigh said:


> 2point,
> 
> That is entirely valid. Charging regimes often balance specific costs that arise from a subset of one's customers against overhead costs that are apportioned across all. In my experience they are applied in one of two ways, and typically differently in the public and private sectors. In the former, the principle is to be fair to all customers so that no customer is subsidised by another by more than a fixed amount, 10% say. In the latter, the charging regime is often used simply to maximise profit according to what the various groups of customers are prepared to pay.
> 
> In this case, guess which one applies? And note that the corollary is that, for a given level of profit, cat owners at this site will be subsidising YOU!
> 
> Dave
> Edit - Oh! Where's your post gone?


I agree Dave, I removed my post as it wasn't adding anything to the debate really and after I read it through I wasn't happy with my own tone.

Cheers


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## 89555

I sent them an email enquiring abou the extra facilities provided for cats and this the reply I have just received

We dispose of your cat litter and provide a fantastic dog walk. Perhaps you would like to bring your dog and cat and to see what they think
Angela Dutton

I am still not going


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## FrankiaMH

*Here's the reply I received from the owner*

Subject: Re: Booking Enquiry

Thankyou for your enquiry, we dispose of your cat's cat litter, presumally your cat uses this ? If you require further info please let me know.
Angela Dutton

How rude can you be! She really doesn't want our business does she. I did feel like replying with:-

Does that mean for my £1.50 per night that you will empty my cat's litter tray every day? Hmmm thought not. Now that you have given me your response I wouldn't dream of staying there.

Frankia MH


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## 89555

Angela Dutton's mail box must be very active with all of our comments, but I wonder if she has got the message that we will not be going that way. I certainly will not be going anyway


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## 88724

Hi all

After the campaign of emails by loads of people who probably had no intention of staying there anyway, some of the emails containing veiled threats and others all in capitals I suppose Angela got a little fed up.

Frankia unless you omited part of the reply, I can only see short and to the point answer.

I think if one person had been selected as a spokesperson and the email had been diplomatically composed without implied threats, we may have got somewhere, as it is at the next get togethor of site owners I would not be suprised to find they all band togethor and charge (more)

edit = spelling correction


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## sailor

Having read through most of this I have to say that I do not share the anti pet charging views of many of the contributors. (and I am a dog owner).

If a site - as many do - invests in dog walks, and bins for dog mess, that are emptied regularly, it is entirely reasonable that the dog owners who benefit from this should pay and not the campers at large who do not have dogs.

Cats are less common on camp sites, but if I was a site owner and found myself emptying bins that someone had put cat litters in, without doubt I would want to charge for the priveledge!

I also entirely agree with with George's comments about the tacit assumption that the rest of the membership would either be interested or support the anti pet charging lobby.

Regards

JeffO


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## 89555

Cat litter trays, Dog cages, whatever they are called someone's cage is getting rattled LOL


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## thefman

i shall be visiting all the sites that charge extra for the s**T machines as im sure the lack of animals will make my stay all the more pleasant :lol:


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## eddievanbitz

Oh dear, I agree with George again. I own a campsite and I charge for dogs! No, I am not greedy, but realistic! I think it is the overall price you pay that is relevant and not necessarily how the price is made up. 

The reason I charge for dogs is that for everyone that cleans up after their dog, there is an owner who does not when they think no one is looking. Our CCTV is forever filming people (mostly blokes) late at night or early in the morning ignoring their dogs’ droppings. 

Also, lets be realistic. On grass, a wet or soggy poo cannot be totally cleaned up. Imagine a hot sunny day and you’re shown to your pitch. There are signs of faeces in the grass and you have no dogs, do not like dogs and you do have young children. You would expect someone to clean up the mess - a couple of buckets of hot water should do the trick! But is it the warden or the long gone owner that ends up doing it? Also, when dogs wee on the grass, it kills it and often patches have to be reseeded. Dogs also from time to time digs holes, cock their legs and leave stains. Unreasonable owners wash them in the showers or even with smaller dogs, in the washing up sinks. All these things we have seen and had to contend with. 

What should we do? Put the overall price up a bit to allow for this? Or is it so unreasonable for us to charge owners an extra 50p per day for them to bring their dogs with them.

Lyn and I have a German Shepherd called Sabre who comes with us everywhere. Most of our friends have dogs and none of us expect to take them somewhere and have the cost for them borne by anyone else. 

If you really want an example of ‘rip off’, look at the forty odd quid the ferry companies charge us to keep our dogs locked in our vans for a short ferry crossing! Now that is a charge I really don’t think can be justified!

I know that some people will agree and some will not and I guarantee that most people without dogs and kids would rather have sites that are dog and children free. People with dogs don’t mind dogs, people with children don’t mind children (until they are away without the kids for a snatched weekend and other peoples children are making a noise).

On another website, our campsite wardens are being ripped into because they told some kids off for messing around. They only spoke to the children and the children’s parents after repeated complaints by other guests about noise and behaviour etc, so we really can’t win. I guess that when I am a pedestrian I can’t understand why drivers aren’t more patient and tolerant, and once behind the wheel, I don’t understand why pedestrians are so slow and blatantly stupid! Don’t even ask about riding my bike 

Whilst on the subject of grabbing thorny issues! Motorhomes towing cars! OK here we go, and this is a generalisation and I am sure that loads of people will be outraged and say that this isn’t them - but here goes.

Motorhomes towing cars cannot go backwards and normally stop in the middle of the road blocking all traffic in and out of the site for fear of going to the wrong place and getting stuck. They often cut corners and chew up the grass, clip walls and knock bins over. They spend ages hooking up, again blocking roads in and out for everyone else. They often can’t hook up on their own and need the warden to come and help, which means that the office has to be locked up and the phone may not be answered as efficiently. This again means inconvenience to every one else (and yes, our warden has a mobile phone but he can’t answer enquiries and about bookings etc whilst away from the office). They often need to be left on site while the motorhome goes here or there for this or that reason. 

People that bring a car on a trailer don’t see why they should pay for their car/trailer combination if a car on an ‘A’ frame is free: “By the way, is there anywhere else I can leave my trailer, other than on the pitch?” is a common question. Surely, safe parking is worth paying a little for? I have to pay about £1.00 per hour to park my car in a decent car park in town, yet people object to paying £1.00 for 24 hours safe and secure parking! 

When I go on my main holiday and tow a large RIB (rigid inflatable boat). On th ecampsite, I will pay to launch the boat, I will pay to moor the boat and I will also pay to park the boat trailer whilst I am there. Personally, I see no wrong in that as I decided I wanted to take the boat on holiday, stay at that particular campsite and I know their charging structure. Why should I try and change their pricing policy or complain about the charges? Frankly, I don’t see why anyone else should subsidise my fun with either my dog or my boat. I take ‘em and I pay the price.


----------



## peedee

Eddie, 
Good to hear a site owners point of view and you make some valid points about clearing up after pets however I cannot agree with your point of view regarding trailers of ANY description. A caravan is a trailer and you could say all the problems you refer to equally apply to a car and caravan which is the basis of the whole argument. Why charge a motorhomer towing a trailer or car but not a caravanner for their double combination? 
There is no argument as far as I am concerned and I will avoid sites that do. 

peedee


----------



## olley

eddievanbitz said:


> They often can't hook up on their own and need the warden to come and help, which means that the office has to be locked up and the phone may not be answered as efficiently. This again means inconvenience to every one else (and yes, our warden has a mobile phone but he can't answer enquiries and about bookings etc whilst away from the office). They often need to be left on site while the motorhome goes here or there for this or that reason.


Hi eddie don't have a prob with charging for trailers or even tag axles :lol: if i don't like it i wont go there, but why would anyone want help loading a car onto a trailer?


----------



## 97232

I think its a very high price indeed for pets.I have emailed both sites asking why the ridiculus charges!I will be boycotting both of these sites and any others that play this card!!I have connections with a national newspaper,a friend works there!!I will give him a ring,and see if he is interested in the story!!  :evil:


----------



## 88724

Hi Peedee

In general a motorhome thats towing a car is probably bigger on its own than a car and caravan combined, its easier to set the rule that way otherwise every set up would require measuring on booking in.

Of course huge caravans towed by huge 4X4's can be bigger than a small motorhome, but overall the rule would be fair and easier to police in most cases.

Hi Eddie

Its good that we can disagree on one or two subjects and not carry that over into every other discussion, we certainly got off on the wrong foot the first time we "met" although I still believe I was right in the main points I was making, but I was a complete arsehole, scoring points with unanswerable Loaded questions, there is being right and then there's being a dickhead and I was truly being a right dickhead.

Onwards and upwards


----------



## 96783

I was very pleased to see Eddie van Bitz's reply. It encapsulated everything that I feel about dogs (and cats too probably) on site. Some years ago a group of us in caravans used to meet for the Easter weekend at Harrow Wood Farm site near Bournemouth. We always turned up with our well behaved Boxer - cleared up its poo, as does everybody who uses this web site (of course). Then suddenly as we arrived, having pre-booked, one Easter we discovered that the proprietors had that year declared it a dog free site. We had to go to a Forestry Commission site down the road. What a disaster that was. The most shambolic site that I've ever been on and we've never been to another. Why had the proprietors done so? Because they were fed up of cleaning up after dogs (and their owners) and, as I understand it Harrow Wood Farm has never looked back. We've been on CC sites and found 'vans with 3 and 4 dogs, generally well looked after, but not always. I reckon that if the CC banned dogs, cats and pink elephants as well they would lose half their members overnight and we'd all be able to get on the sites without difficulty, even in peak season provided, of course, that one was prepared to pay the peak season cost!!! More power to your elbow Eddie.

ps. We've had 4 dogs (3 boxers and a border collie) so are not anti dogs, just anti lazy, idle and unhygienic owners. If one wishes to take dogs/cats etc on site then .................


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## spykal

Blimey George are there aires on the road to Damascus :lol: :lol: good post!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

back to the topic....whilst seeing that these charges for dogs, cats, cars, towed cars or children etc can be annoying if they are excessive I am sitting here wondering if this attack on one camp site is actually going to do us as a group any good...it may well do us some harm.

Please remember that it is not only Motorhomers who have associations like MHF...the site owners have them too and I can see that if we start too many of these vendettas against individual sites it may well harm our own reputation.

I think we should use whatever power we have as a group in a responsible way and targetting individual sites under the MHF banner is not, in my opinion , the way forward.

Mike


----------



## eddievanbitz

Hi Peedee

Here at Cornish Farm Touring Park we use a degree of pragmatism! We have a guest staying at the moment that is staying in a yank and is booked in for a month. The van is on the pitch and they come and go every day using their car so no impact, so we haven’t charged them for the car. Had they turned up and stayed a couple of nights we would have. It is about impact on the site and those other people using it. 

Caravans are designed to be far more mobile (much as I hate them) so I disagree about the argument applying to all trailers. 

I would love to see you at Cornish Farm touring Park so I make you a deal. If you can reverse your motor home and towed car around the site in the same time as I reverse my car and boat trailer, I will give you a free weekends camping for you and another Motorhomefacts member. Time spent out side reception locking A frames or disconnecting things or fiddling around would count though because “A framed” cars can’t go backwards without “buggering around”

My solicitor charges £180.00 per hour and charges for every minute that he is either talking to me or working on my case or file this is £3.00 per minute. We only ask that if you bring another vehicle you pay £1.00 for 24 hours. Frankly I don’t know how they justify their charges, but I know that our warden rarely has to help couples manhandle their caravans onto a pitch, but they always seem to be holding A frames as motorhomes back up or pull away from towed cars, surely, again their time has a value. If they flatly refused to assist that would be wrong, so do we add 50p a night to every ones fee to allow for this? Would this be fair to the rest of us that that don’t tow a car. I still think that it is the amount you finally pay that matters, not the way that the bill is made up.

A good example of this is the open shows that we attend. I pay about £1,200.00 to place my exhibition unit at the majority of open at shows we attend, that is £1,200.00 for three days promotion, for a pitch that is about 7m x 4m. Warner’s charge a lot less for Peterborough and York but introduced a £5.00 per head “staff fee” I was up in arms and going to boycott the shows and throw my toys out of the pram when Mike Jago the MMM editor over a beer asked the $54,000 question “ How much do we finally pay in comparison to other show organisers? And the answer was still a lot less! 

The DVLA still charge you to use the roads for your “A” framed car, even though it is being towed, yet they don’t charge caravans, If I am wrong could some one explain that? Or are they different? I think so, and make a very small fee for the very real extra bit of agro that some rigs cause us!


----------



## peedee

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Peedee
> 
> In general a motorhome thats towing a car is probably bigger on its own than a car and caravan combined, its easier to set the rule that way otherwise every set up would require measuring on booking in.


Disagree George, in general the caravan combination is larger with the exception of the "Americans" with or without a trailer! Next time you are on a busy site do a check and I am sure you will find this so. My last caravan was a single axle 4 berth (a typical or average size) but coupled up to my car the outfit totalled over 10 metres (34ft) However, this is not the point, regardless of size caravanners still do many of the things Eddie attributes to the motorhome trailer combination, in fact I think caravanners are worse offenders simply because their "trailers" are bigger and therefore far more likely to do damage. It is also increasingly common now to also see them blocking routes while the "motormover" is used to position the caravan on or off the pitch. Is this any different to me unhooking my car and driving both units seperately on and off a pitch? I also bet I can do it single handed quicker than a caravanner too.

peedee


----------



## spykal

Hi Peedee

Are you sure that we are not sometimes in danger of penalising ourselves when reacting to being charged for the towed car....I know it is a matter of principle for you but surely the overall cost for a stay at a campsite must be taken into account. Take Eddie's Cornish Farm Touring Park for example ...I have just been to their website and it really does sound like the sort of place that is worth staying at...and if I have done my sums correctly it will cost you in a motorhome (up to 30') with two adults and a car in tow £13.00 per night including electric hook up, situated on a what looks a very nice site with good facilities, leave the towed car at home and its only £12.....By todays standards that is not overpriced.....not cheap but not overpriced.....I have paid that for a farm field with a shower in a cowshed when desperate :lol:

Maybe it would really be better if a site charged everybody an extra 50p and dropped the extra towed car charge and any dog charge?  or would it?

Mike


----------



## eddievanbitz

Hi Olley

I didn't explain very well I guess, people rarely need help getting cars onto trailers, it is backing the motorhome up to and hooking up the trailer that causes fun.

I repeat that I am not anti trailers I have a thirty foot Winnebago and tow a boat, on a trailer that is 27" long. our best mates Mike and Jules from JMBAdditions in Seaford, also have a Winnebago and tow a boat. So between us we are a bundle of fun! 

The site that we are going to this year for our main holiday told us, when you arrive we will unhook the boat and launch it for you! great!! absolutely great! if they charge us a few quid for that: brilliant! We will drive to Italy with no worries, arrive and let someone else deal with the boring bits (sorry should that "mooring" bits) Also the older I get, the happier I am letting someone else handle the hard or dirty bits for a reasonable fee.

George: I knew that there was a decent bloke in there trying to get out after all. You are an asset to this site, giving a reasoned and balanced view to most arguments (most of the time!) Lets be honest, no public forum would survive if everyone had the same view. Long live the power of balanced, fair, argument and discussion.


----------



## 88903

About 5 years ago we pulled on to a site and in I went to the office to enquire 

we had a 3 man tent and 2 adults and a dog and a car.
the conversation went 
How much
well sir it will be £4.50
I thought not bad Ok
then she said each
wow
but what about the 8 yr old 
the same
and then £2.00 for the tent
what
and £2.00 for the car so that will be a total of... oh I see you have a dog too
forget it.....

and off I went
so I had to pay to pitch the small 3 man tent as well as per person and also to park the car

we bought the van and have not bothered with compsites since.

you are welcome to the name but I don't know if the prices are the same as they are now part of the new national park at Lomond..


----------



## peedee

Hi Mike, 
I cannot see we are in danger of penalising ourselves. It is a matter of principle with me, cost is irrelevant up to a point. Car plus caravan equals motorhome plus trailer, it is that back and white as far as I am concerned.



spykal said:


> Hi Peedee
> Maybe it would really be better if a site charged everybody an extra 50p and dropped the extra towed car charge and any dog charge?  or would it?
> Mike


I think it is better marketing but then it may deter those who look for the cheaper options, on the other hand perhaps the owners really don't want 
motorhome/trailers or dogs so aren't bothered if it discourages a few and so what if someone comes along and pays for these extras, its more money in the bank! I have often heard commercial owners complain about club sites having an advantage over them (they don't need to run at a profit) but they are very sucessful and one of the reason is that they have a less complicated pricing structure and do not have extras for awnings,dogs additional car, trailer,etc..

peedee


----------



## spykal

peedee said:


> it is that black and white as far as I am concerned.


Yes I was worried that you may say that and I do understand your principles...and there is no argument against a principle a principle is personal and thats it.
I have principles about some things and have been known to drive around for 20 minutes or more looking for free parking...using more fuel that it would have cost to park.....does that make me "principled"...yes but its sad too...life is too short. :roll: 
I do also sometimes get a little angry when I see advertising that says "children go free" who are they trying to kid?? Someone pays and I feel it is the ones without kids....but then again we had the kids with us once... but in those days Bog Offs and free kids were not the order of the day.
BUT I am now getting the benefit of " over 55 age reduction at C&CC sites" and I don't complain about that
:lol: 
Mike


----------



## DABurleigh

"use whatever power we have as a group in a responsible way and targetting individual sites under the MHF banner is not, in my opinion , the way forward."

Mike,

You have a point, but I'm struggling to abstract it to the general. 

Should we, a bit like modern PC parenting, only ever praise and never chastise? Bouquets only but no brickbats? Is it something to do with sites, but not dealers, because in the latter case people have been encouraged to tell their factual stories, plus how they feel about it?

Should we seek clarity and reasoning from site owners, but never judge? Is it OK to do it ourselves in private, but not share with this MHF community?

I'm sure there is something of substance here to avoid mob tactics, but I'm not sure what it is. I stand by my own posts on the matter, my emails to the campsite and the idea of sharing it on MHF, but if everyone does similarly? You see my difficulty.

Dave


----------



## spykal

Hi DAB

Yes I see where you are coming from and as I have already stated I do not like charges that have no justification or are to high....towed cars?..cats? etc and although I like the idea of us interchanging information so that we can avoid the worst and visit the best but I am not sure about targeting individual sites and hitting them with multiple emails under the MHF banner.

Maybe I just worry too much? I do approve of members writing up reports of both bad and good service obtained from dealers but that is a bit different to the site charges problem. In the case of bad service from a dealer this usually happens after a deal has been done and comes in the aftermath of that deal so the customer had no other course of action but to try to sort it out. But in the case of a site that charges for cats or towed cars or whatever we can take the ultimate stand.....we do not have to stay there.

Mike


----------



## olley

eddievanbitz said:


> Hi Olley I didn't explain very well I guess, people rarely need help getting cars onto trailers, it is backing the motorhome up to and hooking up the trailer that causes fun.


Sorry eddie, am I being thick, surely you attach the trailer to the motorhome and then load the car? don't you? well I do :lol:

Olley


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## xgx

> ...But in the case of a site that charges for cats or towed cars or whatever we can take the ultimate stand.....we do not have to stay there.


E-mails and protests are a waste of time... vote with your feet :!:

but do it in the certain knowledge that some fool will pay and nothing will change.

Do you all realise that if this thread had been said rather than written it would have contributed to global warming?


----------



## 88724

Hi Dave

I think it needs to be done in a measured and diplomatic way, not one person on an individual basis emailing and waving the MHF banner or a posting on here leading to a mob handed email campaign. Some of the emails sent could bring the site into disrepute

what should happen?

Discussion of whatever matter concerns us
Show of _hands_ 
spokesperson writes a diplomatic missive that represents a concencus of opinion, gets general approval and sends
or a form letter that each person can add their signiture to and send


----------



## peedee

Sorry Eddie I missed this post last night



eddievanbitz said:


> Hi Peedee
> 
> Here at Cornish Farm Touring Park we use a degree of pragmatism! We have a guest staying at the moment that is staying in a yank and is booked in for a month. The van is on the pitch and they come and go every day using their car so no impact, so we haven't charged them for the car. Had they turned up and stayed a couple of nights we would have. It is about impact on the site and those other people using it.
> 
> Caravans are designed to be far more mobile (much as I hate them) so I disagree about the argument applying to all trailers.


If it is about impact on the site then surely its far better to encourage a towed car then you wouldn't have heavy motorhomes coming and going at all hours of the day?



> I would love to see you at Cornish Farm touring Park so I make you a deal. If you can reverse your motor home and towed car around the site in the same time as I reverse my car and boat trailer, I will give you a free weekends camping for you and another Motorhomefacts member. Time spent out side reception locking A frames or disconnecting things or fiddling around would count though because "A framed" cars can't go backwards without "buggering around"


If you charge for towed cars then sorry you won't be seeing me on your site with one. As for fiddling around with an "A Frame" I consider myself far more competant at hooking mine up than the majority of caravanners hooking up caravans. They obviously have not seen my Top Tip posting 
HERE



> My solicitor charges £180.00 per hour and charges for every minute that he is either talking to me or working on my case or file this is £3.00 per minute. We only ask that if you bring another vehicle you pay £1.00 for 24 hours. Frankly I don't know how they justify their charges, but I know that our warden rarely has to help couples manhandle their caravans onto a pitch, but they always seem to be holding A frames as motorhomes back up or pull away from towed cars, surely, again their time has a value. If they flatly refused to assist that would be wrong, so do we add 50p a night to every ones fee to allow for this? Would this be fair to the rest of us that that don't tow a car. I still think that it is the amount you finally pay that matters, not the way that the bill is made up.
> 
> A good example of this is the open shows that we attend. I pay about £1,200.00 to place my exhibition unit at the majority of open at shows we attend, that is £1,200.00 for three days promotion, for a pitch that is about 7m x 4m. Warner's charge a lot less for Peterborough and York but introduced a £5.00 per head "staff fee" I was up in arms and going to boycott the shows and throw my toys out of the pram when Mike Jago the MMM editor over a beer asked the $54,000 question " How much do we finally pay in comparison to other show organisers? And the answer was still a lot less!
> 
> The DVLA still charge you to use the roads for your "A" framed car, even though it is being towed, yet they don't charge caravans, If I am wrong could some one explain that? Or are they different? I think so, and make a very small fee for the very real extra bit of agro that some rigs cause us!


You always have the choice not to use them if you do not like the charges. As for people who cannot handle rigs, then my view is they should not be using them. I'll often help the handicapped but I just sit and chuckle at the others, it is also the only way they will learn!

peedee


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## eddievanbitz

Pee Dee, It's illegal anyway! TIC So won't matter soon! 

Just to show no hard feelings email your address to [email protected] and I will send you voucher for a free weekends camping which will include your A framed car and a pet!


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## LadyJ

Does that mean everybody Eddie :lol: dont tow a car but have 2 dogs :lol: 

Jacquie


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## eddievanbitz

Hi LadyJ894 I would love it to include everyone, but with 2500 views I would guess that there would be a lot of people wanting free weekends.

What about getting Nuke to organise a competition and I will offer a weeks camping free of charge for the winner!

cheers

Eddie


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## autostratus

A reversing with A-frame competition?


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## MicknPat

Just received the following, I don't think I sent a rude e-mail,buy Angela ask it to be posted  .........

I was appauled to have read the rude reply sent to you yesterday regarding the cat charges. I have been out of the office for a week and employed a temp to answer emails and postal enquiries. I sincerely apologise and can inform you the charge has now been withdrawn. I would be grateful if you could post the info on the motor home web site. In the meantime I am so sorry and hope I can welcome you to our site in the near future.
Angela Dutton


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## JockandRita

Well George,
if it is genuinely from *Angela Dutton*, (no reason to disbelieve Mick_P), then that looks like a welcome result.

J & R.


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## Scotjimland

I got the same reply and apology


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## 89555

I received a similar reply which I will pass on to Admin for their necessary reply


----------



## autostratus

I got a similar reply.

What about organising a meet there? A way of saying thank you for taking notice.









From the website
Designated Rally Parking
Caravan rallies of up to 25 units are welcome during the winter months. There is a function room available with full kitchen facilities


----------



## 89555

Yes I am all for that, just to say thank you for her very kind response
You can fix it Gillian?


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## zaskar

Extremely good idea. Not even a rally person but I'd be up for it on priciple. Not recieved an E-Mail myself yet but I'm hoping that's down to the ENORMOUS firewall at British Aerospace.


----------



## zaskar

A very nice E-Mail has just arived with an appology and I have sent the reply below.



Dear Angela,
My deepest thanks for your reply and decision to drop CAT charges. It really is VERY much appreciated and I genuinly feel for you that your reputation and that of the site was called into question by the stupid actions of a temp. If it's any help to you, as the unofficial "manager" of a CL in Cheshire I DO understand how much hard work is involved in the smooth running of a site, even a small one like ours) and I also understand how upsetting and disgusting it is to have to clear up after the few irresponsible dog owners who give the majority a bad name. I'm afraid I can't argue one way or the other for cat owners as I've never seen a cat fouling a campsite and my own, even if he was incline to do so, would not feel his feet touch if he tried!
I fully intent to copy this E-Mail to Motorhomefacts.com and also to praise your good self for the proffesionalism shown in this matter. You may like to know that the last time I dropped into the forum, there was talk of asking to hold a rally at your site as a way of saying thankyou and this is an idea I fully support and would do my upmost to attend.
Once again, many thanks and I look forward to visiting your site in the future
Regards

Paul Wrigley
(Zaskar)


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## sallytrafic

eddievanbitz said:


> Pee Dee, It's illegal anyway! TIC So won't matter soon!
> 
> Just to show no hard feelings email your address to [email protected] and I will send you voucher for a free weekends camping which will include your A framed car and a pet!


Right I have a cunning plan I will stalk eddievanbitz on this site and disagree with everything he says then i'm sure sooner or later to show there is no hard feelings he'll give me a free weekend as well. Sorted :lol:

Unfortunately so far I'm in total agreement with him.


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## JockandRita

Us too. 

And a nice reply sent in return. 

The poor womans workload will have trebled as a result of all the replies.   

J & R


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## autostratus

My response to the letter from Angela Dutton
I will of course pass any information I receive to a Rally Organisor to follow up if necessary.
-----------------------------------

_Thank you for_your_reply to my query and in view of its contents I am happy to consign the previous over your name to the waste bin. (I too have suffered from temps!)

I am happy to publish the contents of your e-mail to our website.

Although it may now be too late to add a meet to our current season's calendar I would be grateful if you would let me know what you would charge for a small group of motorhomes and how soon your rally calendar normally fills up. Would there be any hard standing available if the weather turned inclement?

I thank you sincerely for your understanding response to what became an emotive issue.
Gillian xxxxx (Miss)_

------------------------------------------
Angela Dutton <[email protected]> wrote:

I was appauled to have read the rude reply sent to you yesterday regarding cat charges. I have been put of the office for a week and employed a temp to answer emails and postal enquires. I can imform you that the charge has been withdrawn with immediate effect, I would be grateful if you could post this information on the the motorhome web site. I am so sorry and in the the meantime hope I can welcome you to Manor Wood in the near future.
Angela Dutton


----------



## nukeadmin

alls well that ends well i have read this thread with interest and the things that i take away from it are as follows:-



> I agree Dave, I removed my post as it wasn't adding anything to the debate really and after I read it through I wasn't happy with my own tone.


Now this firstly shows we are definately maturing as a community when we can even moderate our own posts 



> Its good that we can disagree on one or two subjects and not carry that over into every other discussion, we certainly got off on the wrong foot the first time we "met" although I still believe I was right in the main points I was making, I was a complete arsehole, scoring points with unanswerable Loaded questions, there is being right and then there's being a dickhead and I was truly a right dickhead.


Self effacement and apologies all around, again this is truly good stuff 

and finally I like the power of the community line but i also think if this sort of thing comes up in future that a poll should be arranged on the forums and a short debate taken, if the "general" consensus is that of dismay and there is a need for action then we would proceed with it 
Not that I am against dramatic impromptu action, it would just allow a more informed view to be taken 

Now has anyone emailed the site owner to see if they would offer a small 5/10% discount off bookings to our community and then It will be a complete turnaround and I can add her site to the campsite database  ????


----------



## autostratus

I did float the idea of discounts in my first mail to them but there was no response.

_You may like to consider giving our community a discount when visiting your campsite; being added to our growing list could be in your interest even if in the off-peak only._

In my last mail I asked about rallies.

_Although it may now be too late to add a meet to our current season's calendar I would be grateful if you would let me know what you would charge for a small group of motorhomes and how soon your rally calendar normally fills up. Would there be any hard standing available if the weather turned inclement?_


----------



## LadyJ

Message for Eddievanbitz,

Thanks Eddie for offering to supply a weeks free camping as a prize for a competition I am on the case will get something sorted with Nuke asap  


Message for Autostratus 

Gillian if you get details of rally field and its not to dear we will try to arrange a rally please pm me with details as soon as you have them thanks.


Message for all

Sorry for deviating for the plot but jolly good result all round :lol:


----------



## peedee

eddievanbitz said:


> Pee Dee, It's illegal anyway! TIC So won't matter soon!
> 
> Just to show no hard feelings email your address to [email protected] and I will send you voucher for a free weekends camping which will include your A framed car and a pet!


Thansk Eddie that is very kind of you. I am not at home at the moment but will be in touch. Don't think I can afford the time for a week but may take the offer up for a few days late this September.

peedee


----------



## guzzijim

I wish to add Cornishfarm to my list of sites that have been known to charge for a car towed on an A frame, which as some of you will recall I post on M'facts from time to time.

I wish to add a link to the article Eddie has written about his reasoning for charging, so as readers of my list can make up their own minds whether his charges are fair.

I cut and paste to Word Doc. can anybody lead me on from there.


----------



## 88724

Hi Jim


Being as A frames are ilegal, I wonder how the campsites insurance would view them allowing ilegal combinations on-site? How would their public liability stand if an A framer being unable to reverse properly jacknifed into someone

Why do you think you should be allowed to bring 2 motorvehicles on-site at the same price everyone else pays for 1? If thats the case can a few of my family come if we both arrive in small campervans?

Extra wear and tear?

I actually agree with Eddies article.

where does it all end..................


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## guzzijim

I'didn't say I disagreed with his policy, In my mail I was asking how to put a link to his letter so as readers of my posting could make up *their own mind. * Being *disabled *and relying on my car for addition transport it is an advantage to know who charges. It's is up to individuals to elect whether they stay on these sites or not, my list will give people forwarning of the additional charge.
Regards insurance I think it best if you contact the various sites and insurance companies, you will then be able to add their comments to your arsenal of reasons to ban A frames.


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## eddievanbitz

Another little aspect for thought. Tuesday afternoon: a 40' American arrives on site, with a car being towed on a "A" frame. Absolutely great people, fantastic sense of humour but from a camp site point of view a financial waste of time.

Cornish Farm is not on mains sewerage, so we have had a very expensive chemical treatment plant built within the grounds, which we can't put chemical waste into. This is classified as hazardous waste and has to go into a separate holding tank. (remember that Cornish Farm Touring Park is a brand new site, so has to comply to every single bit of new legislation) We pay £100 to have 1000 gallons of chemical waste removed. It costs so much because the local authority make the contractor (we call him the poosucker) go to a specific pumping station.

A big coach style RV can hold up to a 100 gallons on black waste (poo) and an even greater quantity of grey water (shower water for example) So a big RV comes in for one night towing a car. The van is too big to go on a hardstanding and also park the car on the same pitch, so the car has to be parked on an adjacent pitch. Plug the van into the mains! That's a laugh! The RV was designed to use a 50amp hook up @110 volts, so the electricity supply is hammered from the beginning. The RV has a "City Water" connection which means that they can connect the RV straight to our (metered) water supply and not worry about "running out of water" When they get up in the morning they switch the City Water from "USE" to "FILL" which then fills the 120 gallon fresh water tank. They spend a good half hour blocking the one way system as they manoeuvre the car, clip the "A" frame on, check the lights and then their off.. No their not because they need to dump. Now I am not going to stand and watch, so I don't really know exactly so lets say the black tank is half full and the grey tank is three quarters full, that is about 125 gallons of hazardous waste at £100 per 1000 so that is £12.50 probably used about three quid of electric (the RV needs a 50 amp supply for a reason) running total now £15.50 plus the metered water used, the hidden cost by the damage done to the campsite with 15 ton of RV driving around on it. We charge £12.00 The Government take £1.79 in VAT so we get £10.21 So their overnight stay with us at Cornish Farm, has cost us £5.29 plus the hidden costs! What a result !!

So what should we do? Ban motorhomes that we think will cost us money when they arrive? Not pay the staff those days? Make a charge for big RV's medium motorhomes and another for small motorhomes, then people with small RV's would feel unfairly treated so that would be wrong as well. People with cars on trailers can't see why "A" framed cars are free yet they have to pay. Ultimately we have to make a charge which is uniform and stick with it. Most motorhomes are not too big for the site, Most motorhomes don't tow a car or trailer, Most motorhomes don't have pets inside, Most motorhomes don't travel with a load of children either.

So we have a price of £12.00 per night. This price applies to MOST motorhomes and is generally fair to MOST motorhome owners. If you arrive and you are slightly out of the "norm" we ask that you pay just a little extra for whatever additional thing you want to bring to Cornish Farm.

If I am being "added to a list of 'known' sites so be it, but I would like to quote from our own terms and conditions. From the quote below you will see that we have promoted our "middle of the road" policy since we opened on attitude, behaviour and pricing.



> " We want everyone to enjoy their stay at Cornish Farm. We do not want too many rules and regulations but we do want happy, middle of the road campers enjoying a quiet few days. Extremes of any behaviour or practice will not be tolerated and you will be asked to leave. In short, if you think it is OK that your dogs should be allowed to run around scaring people, barking and making a mess everywhere whilst your children run around screaming and shouting having water fights in the toilets, whilst you sleep off the 3.00am noisy BBQ you enjoyed the night before with your mates that came up from another campsite and parked in everyone else's spot ..… PLEASE DO NOT COME BECASE YOU WILL BE SADLY DISAPPOINTED!


Perhaps I would like to be listed as a site that is known to have a fair pricing policy? Perhaps I should charge more for vans with MHF banners and stickers? Greedy campsite owners? No I don't believe so in the main. Penny pinching tight fisted motorhome owners? Again, No I don't believe that in the main, but I guess we will never please all of the people all of the time. (by the way only kidding :lol: about charging MHF members more, but retaliation does take two you know!)


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## 88724

Hi Jim

Ban, strange choice of words, I dont need to add any reasons, they are already ilegal. I didnt make them ilegal, that would be the law.

Of course people can make up their own mind's, but they dont need to be limited to just your opinion on the matter do they?


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## spykal

Hi Eddie

What a brilliant story.....and what a fantastic attitude you seem to have taken with that "welcome" guest. I am sure that many of us could do with a week or two of dealing with the problems that a site owner faces in the everyday running of a campsite to bring us down to earth.

Although I do agree that everybody has a right to have principles such as " I don't stay at sites where they charge for towed cars" sometimes I do wonder at the logic of refusing to stay at a site where for a very fair price one could expect to get excellent overall value ...and where, judging by your obvious enthusiasm and desire to give good service , one would enjoy a great stay.

Mike


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## 88724

Very well Put Eddie


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## zaskar

A big coach style RV can hold up to a 100 gallons on black waste (poo)

Errrrrrr, yeah? Which RV might this be then? 8O 




Plug the van into the mains! That’s a laugh! The RV was designed to use a 50amp hook up @110 volts, so the electricity supply is hammered from the beginning. 


No it's not! The RV might be designed for 50amp but it will only get what your trips will allow, usually 10amp and sometimes 16 amp.
Even for an RV, 10 amp is sufficient. All it takes is care, i.e turn the fan heater off before stitching on the kettle.
I tried to blow a 16 amp on purpose once. Just to see.
Couldnt do it with kettle, fan heater, aircon, fridge and tv on all at once.......and lets face it, who'd be daft enough to do that under nonmal circumstances.




When they get up in the morning they switch the City Water from “USE” to “FILL” which then fills the 120 gallon fresh water tank.


No RVer in his right mind travels with a full water tank 8O 




They spend a good half hour blocking the one way system as they manoeuvre the car, clip the “A” frame on, check the lights and then their off.


Hadn't realised it was a race. :? 





.................... so lets say the black tank is half full and the grey tank is three quarters full, that is about 125 gallons of hazardous waste


anybody who can produce that in one night doesn't need a pitch, they need a surgeon! 8O 





the hidden cost by the damage done to the campsite with 15 ton of RV driving around on it. 

If you're going to allow large RV onto your site, surely you have a duty to ensure reasonable manouvreing room, otherwise, don't accept them.
You can't have it both ways.




Greedy campsite owners? 
The title was applied purely against those who charge for CATS which was the original point of this thread and for which no campsite owner can justify given that no special facilities are provided or MEASURABLE expenses incurred . Unfortunately it developed into something much more widespread and clouded the original issue.


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## spykal

zaskar said:


> Snipped: If you're going to allow large RV onto your site, surely you have a duty to ensure reasonable manouvreing room, otherwise, don't accept them.
> You can't have it both ways.


After that, If I was Eddie, I would now be seriously considering your point....but that's just me. Eddie does seem to be a far more reasonable person than me 

Mike


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## 88724

Zasker

Have you considered that an american could be wild camping for days and then the campsite cops the lot.

_Couldnt do it with kettle, fan heater, aircon, fridge and tv on all at once.......and lets face it, who'd be daft enough to do that under nonmal circumstances._

Had to laugh at this, it ranks up there with "Ive told you a million times dont exagerate"

_No RVer in his right mind travels with a full water tank_ err that begs the question why fit them then, on site set to city and dont fill to travel hmmmm.

_
Hadn't realised it was a race. _

Yes we notice that, dont worry about holding everyone else up.


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## eddievanbitz

I was trying to make a point that MOST people would understand. I always try not to get to technical but to answer your post in kind I have probably forgotten more about motorhomes and RV’s than MOST people having repaired, worked on and looked after literally tens of thousands of motorhomes, given up a franchise because I couldn’t face selling vans that were going backward in design, functionality and quality, because nit everyone in this trade is a lying cheat out to fleece people. Oh yes my wife and I have personally owned some 17 motorhomes. But hey what do I know?


For the record loads of our guests come to our site after a few days wild camping and everything is either full or empty, vans that are designed to have access to 50 amp supplies just eat available power just be plugged in with very sophisticated charging systems, heating systems and water heaters, AES double door’d domestic fridge/freezers the list goes on.

Quantities too much? If it makes you happier halve them, the sums still work out that we make no money, which is the object of running a business after all, customer care and satisfaction are all part of an important equation but I assure you there is no customer satisfaction dealing with a company that goes bust leaving the customer on their own. A friend of mine had a 40 footer that had a Jacuzzi and held 350 gallons!

No one travels with water tanks full? I do in my Winnebago. I simply can’t be bothered to hunt around late at night or early in the morning for water just to save a couple of bob in fuel. Besides, last time I tried it, there was a problem on the ferry and we had a night and morning on the docks with no water for washing or flushing! Do I take it that you don’t wash or flush whilst travelling?

“If you're going to allow large RV onto your site, surely you have a duty to ensure reasonable manoeuvring room, otherwise, don't accept them. 
You can't have it both ways”

Didn’t try to have it both ways, you are putting words in my mouth. There is plenty on room to manoeuvre, it’s the crap drivers that we can always contend with. We are allowed a maximum of 30 pitches per acre, we have 50 pitches in 3.5 acres instead of the 105 we should be allowed We also have a specific pitch for huge RV’s to make life easy.

Just to remind people. We are not anti RV’s we own one, we tow a boat behind it making us 57’ long and we have children and a big dog. We are strange to some here because we are happy to pay for these things when we take them.

I wonder if I am alone on this planet! I drive a big van, I turn up on a site and I don’t expect the site to drop everything and give me extra special attention, we pay to take our dog and we still expect to clear up his mess.

Was I out the day that everybody got hit with the big stick that makes them expect special treatment because they want something? There is an unsettling aspect to this forum, where for example a ripped off copy (genuine or not)of Jamie Oliver’s new cook book was offered and downloaded by MHF members, at the same time as someone else was advising how to give a false address to get insurance for full timers. If we, members, as a forum want to be treated correctly, fairly and honestly perhaps we should look at some of these attitudes from within our own community!

BTW It isn't us that moan about roads being blocked, but other campers!


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## guzzijim

*Can nobody help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

I wish to add a link to the article Eddie has written about his reasoning for charging, so as readers of my list can make up their own minds whether his charges are fair.

I cut and paste to Word Doc. can anybody lead me on from there.


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## xgx

Eddie

There aren't many site owners who'd be prepared to discuss the business of their site on an open forum... you have full marks in my book 8).

There'll always be folks for whom sufficient is never enough, don't give 'em a second thought or you'll end up carrying around a load of useless baggage :wink:


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## 88724

Hi Eddie

_I wonder if I am alone on this planet! I drive a big van, I turn up on a site and I don't expect the site to drop everything and give me extra special attention, we pay to take our dog and we still expect to clear up his mess._

Your not alone, I agree totally

_Was I out the day that everybody got hit with the big stick that makes them expect special treatment because they want something? There is an unsettling aspect to this forum, where for example a ripped off copy (genuine or not)of Jamie Oliver's new cook book was offered and downloaded by MHF members, at the same time as someone else was advising how to give a false address to get insurance for full timers. If we, members, as a forum want to be treated correctly, fairly and honestly perhaps we should look at some of these attitudes from within our own community! _

Eddie I must buy you a pint some time, that sums up quite a few peoples attitudes, I dont know how many times I have seen people giving insurance dodges and then getting upperty if you say its wrong to do that.


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## guzzijim

If we, members, as a forum want to be treated correctly, fairly and honestly perhaps we should look at some of these attitudes from within our own community! 

Like when mentioning a genuine disabilty, you don't get replys like, not that old card again! 

Still awaiting an apology George. Takes a big man to do it.


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## Scotjimland

GeorgeTelford said:


> There is an unsettling aspect to this forum, where for example a ripped off copy (genuine or not)of Jamie Oliver's new cook book was offered and downloaded by MHF members, at the same time as someone else was advising how to give a false address to get insurance for full timers. If we, members, as a forum want to be treated correctly, fairly and honestly perhaps we should look at some of these attitudes from within our own community!


Unsettling to whom ? .. come on George , this is a forum of motorhomers ..not the ..*"I'm Holier Than Thou Church"*..


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## zaskar

For the record loads of our guests come to our site after a few days wild camping and everything is either full or empty, 


Loads? In large RV's? Wildcamping in Cornwall? Sorry but I find that hard to believe.


vans that are designed to have access to 50 amp supplies just eat available power .....


Sorry but I don't understand this. Surley they can only pull what the trips will allow? It doesn't matter how suffisticated the on board systems are, they can only pull what the trips will allow, or am I missing something here?


Do I take it that you don’t wash or flush whilst travelling?

Yes of course, but I dont need FULL tanks to do it.


Didn’t try to have it both ways, you are putting words in my mouth. There is plenty on room to manoeuvre, it’s the crap drivers that we can always contend with. 

Fair point. Having witnessed it myself I'm not gonna arge the point  


Just to remind people. We are not anti RV’s we own one,..........


Glad to hear it, possibly I was reading too much between the lines or being too sensitve cos unfortunately thats the way it came across to me. However, if I'm wrong and that's not what you meant, I'll gladly hold my hands up  
Unfortunately I've had far too many instances of always booking ahead, taking the time to explain how big the rig is.........and then turning up to find a narrow entrance on a 90 degree turn of a tiny lane to a totally unsuitable campsite. Thats when you sit there thinking, "your just being greedy mate instead of tell me on the phone that there's no way".
In your case it sounds like you've gone to a lot of trouble, not to say expense, with extra big pitches and the like and it's only fair that you should want a fair return from it. I really dont have a problem with that. As an RV owner driver yourself, you'll know that it's not really extra large hardstanding that are required ( the rear can overhang the grass), it manoevring room. If you've provided that, I can understand you getting upsett if someone's careless enough to plough up the site.


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## sallytrafic

ScotJimland said:


> GeorgeTelford said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is an unsettling aspect to this forum, where for example a ripped off copy (genuine or not)of Jamie Oliver's new cook book was offered and downloaded by MHF members, at the same time as someone else was advising how to give a false address to get insurance for full timers. If we, members, as a forum want to be treated correctly, fairly and honestly perhaps we should look at some of these attitudes from within our own community!
> 
> 
> 
> Unsettling to whom ? .. come on George , this is a forum of motorhomers ..not the ..*"I'm Holier Than Thou Church"*..
Click to expand...

Hi ScotJimLand

I think you owe George an apology he was quoting eddievanbitz from the previous page.

Frank


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## guzzijim

Your were not the only one ScotJimLand, perhaps it should have been marked as a quote, sorry George in advance. Still makes no difference to the apology I'm awaiting from you, you did endorse Eddies quote and all it's references by cut and pasting it.


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## 88724

Hi Scot Jim Land

I was quoting Eddie and agreeing with is viewpoint, it is unsettling how many people are willing to flout the law and fiddle the insurance, for example speeding just a little bit. Guzz Jim as claimed the VAT free purchase of a motorhome (update, now apears to be saying the he qualified but didnt accept) and yet he declares that he does fit the criteria, he is happy to drive his motorhome while ilegally towing using an A frame.

I am not holier than thou, but there is a certain sense that people have double standards


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## eddievanbitz

Yes it was my quote, so we can't blame George. It has nothing to do with being "holier than thou", but this thread (which has moved in and out of topic) was about greedy campsite owners that charge for cats, and people thing that this is wrong. The point I was making was other members illegally steal an authors work by knowingly down loading a book for free. Is this greed or just dishonest? No doubt their argument to justify this action is "They (the publisher) should take more care, and be so stupid" Which funnily enough is the same thought that I have, when I read an lot of the posts on MHF's but I am just to polite to say it. 

If we can't cuss, swear, tell dirty jokes, or even discuss the joys of a *** and a beer perhaps we shouldn't moan about, for example, insurance companies not paying up, whilst we give advice on the forum about how to fraudulently obtain cover. Just a thought!


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## 97232

Ive never gone on a british campsite yet but have used plenty in europe a few years ago.As for the pricing i think small motorhomes should be charged less than the big motorhomes,rvs on all sites.Its common sense as the bigger the motorhome the more water,electric etc you will use,also the bigger space u will need!this would be the fairest way and fair on the site owner!Just for the record,while visiting campsites in europe 3 years ago,ive only got a small camper by the way,the only hassle i saw was from the big rv's,with dogs,small car etc!Not all of course,but some were very rude and snobby,germans and english!!An elderley english couple had to move to the other end of the site as the people in the rv were making alot of noise and let there dogs bark everytime someone walked past.Their attitude was terrible,and i've seen this a good few times! :roll:


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## olley

Hi Eddie I think you have quoted a worst case senerio:
We use a totally bio-degradable additive in our toilet, so you can put it into your cesspit.

If I use your shower and toilet facilitys I will use just as much water as in the van.

The biggest drain on electric as you know are the aircons, not something I am likely to use in britain, I do have a bigger fridge than european motorhomes, but thats it, when it get cold I put the gas heating on.

And you still haven't replied to my email about restaurants within walking distance of your site. 

Olley


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## Scotjimland

lonewof said:


> Ive never gone on a british campsite yet but have used plenty in europe a few years ago.As for the pricing i think small motorhomes should be charged less than the big motorhomes,rvs on all sites.Its common sense as the bigger the motorhome the more water,electric etc you will use,also the bigger space u will need!this would be the fairest way and fair on the site owner!Just for the record,while visiting campsites in europe 3 years ago,ive only got a small camper by the way,the only hassle i saw was from the big rv's,with dogs,small car etc!Not all of course,but some were very rude and snobby,germans and english!!An elderley english couple had to move to the other end of the site as the people in the rv were making alot of noise and let there dogs bark everytime someone walked past.Their attitude was terrible,and i've seen this a good few times! :roll:


So, let me get this correct, I have an RV, I will use more water, use more electric, I will have a dog, car and be noisy and rude ...

A very balanced view point.. not prejudiced are we ?


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## 97232

jim,relax,im not being prejudiced towards big motorhomes,most of them are good people!im just saying my view that i think big motorhomes should be charged more,thats the fairest way.........especially the scots!!  only joking!!about the scots!! humour my friend,it is the best way!


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## Motorhomersimpson

I think Eddie has a valid point about some attitudes on the site to a degree, but when you have a large community of people as is here, the ones that are unhappy about something come to the forefront more often, and that is not a reflection of any member in particular, please read below.

You will always find people willing to talk more about the bad service, high prices etc than you will people willing to discuss the good prices and good service etc, it’s human nature I suppose, when was the last time someone here said they had been to the cheapest site possible, and ended up with several pages of replies, I do not know of any, and I’ve been here a long time.

I do think that Eddie (Vanbitz) has done us a good service here, by giving the site owners perspective, I and many others here I’m sure, understand the need for companies to make a profit, and whilst there are some that would like to make more profit than other’s, overall, I personally think it’s not that bad.

"I'm Holier Than Thou Church"…membership is now open,£12.00 per annum, £1.50 for cat’s, £2.50 for dogs and £10.00 for children…… :lol: :lol: :lol: 

MHS…Rob


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## 88724

Hi GuzzJim

I have never disrespected or belittled anyones disability, I asked why you thought it was relevant to the topic, then you replied along the lines of "you unsympathetic bastard" and I should apologise to you why exactly?


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## spykal

lonewof said:


> im just saying my view that i think big motorhomes should be charged more,thats the fairest way


Hi

I'm not agreeing,BUT ......when we stayed at Bath Marina in January (brrrr) we were talking with an RVer neighbour (while waiting for the electric to come back on :roll: )......and he was telling me that some campsites that he visits around his area ( Bristol) were charging extra for RVs. Sorry no site names but have any others met with this?

Mike


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## Scotjimland

lonewof said:


> i think big motorhomes should be charged more,thats the fairest way........


Why is that the fairer way ? 
Does a small van with 4 adults use less site resources than a large van with 2 adults.. they both occupy the same size pitch..
In most sites the 'per night' fee is calculated by, No of adults + No of children + pitch + elect. + pet.. not by the length of your unit.
What is unfair is charging for a car on an A frame, awning, gazeebo or trailer.. I can see no good reason for that if you are still only using one pitch, its just greed.


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## Scotjimland

spykal said:


> he was telling me that some campsites that he visits around his area ( Bristol) were charging extra for RVs. Sorry no site names but have any others met with this


I have never come across this in the UK but I'm not surprised.. I have no objection to paying more if the pitch is bigger to accommodate a larger unit .. but otherwise I would turn away. 
I have seen it abroad where they sometimes have several pitch sizes, this is fair enough..


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## 88831

how about letting us all in on the name of this site, then we can all boycott it,dave


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## DABurleigh

What's fair to one is unfair to another. 

With my correspondence to the Cheshire site, I acknowledged that their charging policy (the split between general overheads and specific charges for specific categories of customers) was entirely a matter for them, to maximise profit if nothing more altruistic. 

However, if they don't publish any reasoning/ policy behind the charges, and leave it up to their customers to guess for themselves, they leave their business subject to these customers thinking the worst and talking to one another. That's the business' call, too.

Dave


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## spykal

pilote1995 said:


> how about letting us all in on the name of this site, then we can all boycott it,dave


At the time of my converstion with the RV guy I did not pay much attention to which site it was ...in fact the guy himself was not too worried about paying more ...he thought that he was getting a good deal anyway, even though he was paying more than a smaller van. In fact as I remember it, it was only extra for the Rv in the winter so not too silly....however you look at it a RV will consume more electricity than a smaller van just to keep the the inside warm.

Mike


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## 88903

Now you see why I [and my dog] wild it mostly

eddie- I am impressed with your reasoned and calm argument and have already asked for bumpf as we intend to "bend" our rules and visit you. I look forward to a discussion [about rugby teams and winning perhaps :lol: ] over a glass of wine.

i have certainly gained more insight on campsite owners.
my experiences so far on the very few sites i have used have been of the other variety [bar 1 -the site i tried to buy] 
they have been of the greedy, screw every penny you can type. I can see you have thought a great deal about it and you need to make a living [someone has to pay for that huuuuge rv of yours :wink: ]
i must admit tho, I very seldom use a campsite so not met many.
besides all that, we have a good friend who lives about 3 miles from you so the site will be superbly situated for a visit to him.

see you soon


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## autostratus

George

It was pointed out to me last night that my post regarding your use of bad language on the site in this thread was wrong. I now see that your quote was a carryover from another thread and not this one. I apologise for my mistake and I have as you can see withdrawn my post.

It is a pity that some of the posters on the site cannot moderate their own posts in order to avoid mistakes like this and which do no one any favours. If they cannot then I feel that the time is approaching when Moderators instead of allowing healthy discussion/debate of a topic will have to step in earlier and lock threads before they have run their natural course.

Gillian


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## 98164

*I'm not going to join*

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading and enjoying this forum for many months. I have owned Motorhomes for over 20 years, but still learn something new everytime I log on to this forum.

I have thought hard about posting or becoming a member only one thing stops me....George Telford....What an opinionated individual. I don't know if you mean to sound the way you do Geaorge, no offence intended. Your posts are factual but you always come across as the superior knowledge in everything. You are the reason I will not join this forum or even log in to it again.

Scotchmannie


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## 88724

Hi Gillian

No problem, I was surprised that nothing was said about the other poster swearing at the time.

Hi Mannie

Quote mannie *Your posts are factual but you always come across as the superior knowledge in everything. *

Thanks mannie, there is a very good reason for that..................


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## 88927

eddievanbitz said:


> The point I was making was other members illegally steal an authors work by knowingly down loading a book for free. Is this greed or just dishonest? No doubt their argument to justify this action is "They (the publisher) should take more care, and be so stupid" Which funnily enough is the same thought that I have, when I read an lot of the posts on MHF's but I am just to polite to say it. quote]
> 
> Just a quick correction Eddie. The offer of forwarding a copy of a recipe book by Jamie Oliver was not an attempt to "illegally steal" anything. The item was available on the internet (never actually published as a book) and was downloaded as a result of a link from here. A member then offered to forward it to anyone interested (greed cannot come into this as no reward was sought). When the member was informed (in a very aggressive manner) that what they were doing was potentially illegal, the member asked admin to remove the thread so that no-one would ask for a copy and the originally downloaded copy was deleted.
> I believe that this was an honest mistake by someone who is not conversant with the copyright laws and assumed that as the material was freely available on the web then it was ok to send it to likeminded individuals. As no profit was made and the material was removed I think the sort of accusations you are making hardly support your argument and I would think that you can find a lot of other examples to use rather than calling a fellow member a thief just because they made an honest mistake, which they went on to rectify.
> I just wanted to point this fact out to you and do not intend to discuss it further as I have no wish to hijack this thread.
> 
> Keith


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## 88927

lonewof said:


> jim,relax,im not being prejudiced towards big motorhomes,most of them are good people!im just saying my view that i think big motorhomes should be charged more,thats the fairest way.........especially the scots!!  only joking!!about the scots!! humour my friend,it is the best way!


Hi lonewof
I am still trying to get my head around your logic. Why exactly do you think it is fair to charge by cubic volume? If this is the case then surely a big twin axle caravan being towed by a large 4x4 should also pay more?
I also do not agree with your other points regarding consumption of utilities, do we use more than you per capita?
Regarding attitudes of the people you have met I can see no connection between owning/driving an RV and being obnoxious, sorry but I have seen a lot of bad behavior from motorhomers, caravaners and tenters, size does not come into the behavior equation in my view, maybe it is just that you noticed the people in the RV's because they were big?
I would be interested in your reply

Keith


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## olley

Hi after the cancellation of the Malvern show we needed somewhere to go, and after reading about eddie's on this post and nuke entry in the campsite d/b I have booked for that weekend 7th to 10th of april.

At £12.00 per night inc. trailer, cat, dog, pigeon and the wife! its got to be good value :lol: 

Olley


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## spykal

kands said:


> I also do not agree with your other points regarding consumption of utilities, do we use more than you per capita?
> Keith


"Per capita" maybe not, but I would bet a big RV would consume more electricity on a cold winters day/night than my itsy bitsy teeny weeny autosleeper. Not that I am worried or complaining, I rarely use hook ups anyway and when I do I mostly arrive at the site with all the batteries flat so I am happy to pay the same as you for the stay and the hook up. The site maybe just makes more profit out of me than it does out of you, maybe thats why we always get smiles all round when we arrive :lol: (with no dogs,cats,pigs,sheep,kids,trailers,A-frame cars, boats,or awnings :lol: :lol: )

mike

P.S. I'm only jealous :lol: :lol:


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## 88927

Hi Mike
No need to be jealous mate :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I would think that the fan on my gas powered central heating "probably" may consume a watt or two more than yours......... And allegedly my batteries are always flat :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Keith


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## eddievanbitz

Hi everyone this has to be my last post on this thread. Perhaps you all can see now why we have a standard fee that applies to most, and then make a small and reasonable surcharge for extras. It has been interesting reading the last few entries watching people try to rationalize who or what should pay more or less than anyone else. It would be a nightmare and we would have to put our fee's up substantially to pay for software and training. 

As a motorhomer, without my campsite owners hat on I think that Tents should pay more, because I turn up on a site, normally with full water tanks, empty waste tanks and full of gas. I get up in the morning and it is chucking it down with rain! so we shower in the van. When I leave I have impacted on the site very little but the guy in the tent beside me has used every facility from hot water for washing up, left clothes drying in the nice warm laundry room, showered used the loo's the lot in short and all I've done is park up.

But this is the problem you see, every single scenario is different, I have an RV and used it differently to the scenario I refereed to earlier in this thread. So we have a scale of fees that apply to most people. 

I live in the real world, so I have no illusions about the inevitable abuse we would suffer if we just said pay "X" pounds per night and bring what you like! We would end up with motorhomes towing caravans with quad bikes on the roof and packs of roaming dogs. Before any one starts complaining about generalizations and accusations, we see regularly people pulling on to the site, after office hours with caravans, tents and unfortunately motorhomes that bugger off early in the morning to avoid paying. We have even had fire extinguishers stolen. 

Kands, Hi, thank you for letting me know that the link to the stolen book has been removed


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## retired_brian

*Site fees*

If they are running a Private site, they tell you what they propose to charge. You then decide if you are willing to pay this.

It's only like going in a shop and being told the price of the goods.

If you don't like their prices, choose somewhere else.


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## spykal

Hi Brian

Spot on.

Mike

P.S. when I first :roll: read your nick name I read "retired brain" ...I thought to myself "I should have used that name" :lol:

P.P.S. welcome to MHF, a bit of a late welcome I know (but better late than not at all)


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## takeaflight

I have kept out of this one mainly because of the title of the thread, however as its still ongoing I will put my peeny's worth in. It seems to me that the difference between the members boils down to and of course I am generalizing, those that are self employed and those that work for someone else, I work for myself and have done so for most of my working life, therefore I don't have a problem with anyone charging for there products or services what ever they wish, whether I pay them is another issue, its my experience employed people do seem to become obsessed with what someone is making, in reality they have little or no concept to overheads, and the blood sweat and tears that go into many small businesses. It always amuses me when I hear people starting there own business, to become there own boss, so they can have time off when they wont and and do more or less what they wont when they wont.
These are the guys that go out and lease a BMW buy a briefcase before they have even gotten there first order. 9 months later they are down the road grumbling, in debt and no work. Thats if they have the balls to start in the first place.

In my view its similar to people complaining about TV programmes if you don't wont to watch switch off, if you don't agree with someones charges go else where. Of course I wish I could apply this principal to diesel and TAX's.


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## JockandRita

> Of course I wish I could apply this principal to diesel and TAX's.


Now you're talking.

J & R


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## 97232

keith,like i said before,it is my view,that big m/h should pay more than the diddy ones!its logical as the large m/h use more electric,take up more space,use more water!it is just my view as well as afew camper friends of mine.Also it was just my experience while camping in europe,about rude rv owners!of course,they are not all like that,maybe i picked the wrong sites!! :lol: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is interesting to hear different viewpoints.I do think that in the future we will see site owners charging more for the rv's than the small campers!keith,you will just have get a smaller one!!! :lol:


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## Scotjimland

lonewof said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is interesting to hear different viewpoints.


Indeed, here is my viewpoint.

Small motorhome owner. 
Use site showers as the van en suite is being used as a store. 
Use the veg prep area, van basin is too small? 
Use the washing up area, see above. 
Use electric fan heater to save gas, they only have a tiny bottle and it's expensive to change. 
Use toilets, the porta potti is Not for No 2s

RV Owner 
Use their own shower, heated by gas 
Use their own sink for veg prep, RV has two full size sinks. 
Washes up with hot water heated by gas 
Heats van with gas.. no shortage, large LPG tank that is cheap to fill.
Use their own toilet , huge holding tank can last for many days.

So, to recap, the RV owner doesn't need or use any site hot water to shower, shave or wash up, he doesn't use a 3k watt fan heater to save gas.. and why pay £££££££££ for an RV to use someone elses shower and toilet ...ewwww ..:roll:

So how can you say that an RV uses more site resources and should pay more???

tongue firmly in cheek :wink:


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## olley

err, sorry jim my RV like some others has an electric element in the hot water tank, so I very rarely turn the gas boiler on.

Can't argue with the rest though :lol: 

Olley


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## Scotjimland

olley said:


> err, sorry jim my RV like some others has an electric element in the hot water tank, so I very rarely turn the gas boiler on.


Posh or what !... :lol: :lol: You'll get us a bad name.. shhhhhhh.. :wink:


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## 97232

well,jimbo my friend  ,my small camper has its own shower,cooker,sink,heating,toilet etc the same as the rv's near enough!  Its just a lot smaller,so would use less of everything and......less space.......thus.......let the scotch mist clear......site owners should charge more for large m/h than small ditty ones!!common sense dear fellow,keep off the haggis,it makes the blood rush to the head! :lol: dont panic captain mannering,you'll just have to pay more!!or get a smaller van!hee!hee! :lol:


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## 88927

eddievanbitz said:


> Kands, Hi, thank you for letting me know that the link to the stolen book has been removed


What book????? It was never published so it can hardly be a book.
The point I was making was that you were calling someone a thief because they made a mistake and that your analogy hardly supported your argument. I think a different choice of words would go some way towards an apology here, we cannot just name call.....

Regarding Lonewofs comments. I still do not understand why you seem to think that because my RV is bigger that your MH I should pay more. As far as I can see, and Jim has listed it out for you, owners of RV's do not necessarily use more site utility just because they are bigger. Do they take up more space than a twin axle caravan and attendant 4x4? I think not. Do they take up more room than a small MH with half a dozen windbreaks marking out their "territory"? Again I think not. So if all that has been said is true, what grounds can you rely upon to make "your opinion". 
I do realise that we are all entitled to our own opinions however when making statements such as yours it would be nice to think that you were coming from a sustainable position and not just having a go mate.....

Keith


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## 88724

Hi Lonewof

Generally a pitch as a certain area, ergo your van and Jim's could be allocated the same pitch, should he pay more for the same ground? 

I think not, there might be the argument that he will dump more waste, take more water away

But there are Plusses and minuses to both sides, I think that eddies solution is the most equitable for all concerned, no system of charging can be perfect.

£12 per night at Eddies Cornish farm is very good value compared to some sites and the few extra's seem justifiable.

You could go on forever saying I dont use this they obviously use more of that, no I dont. what are they supposed to do ask what you will and will not use, meter the water, weigh your dump, charge per bag waste, slot machine showers.


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## 97232

keith,i understand the points you are making!we will just have to see what the site owners decide to do!I guess,big or small m/h's,we should all make sure that they dont charge too much and if they do,we should vote with our feet :wink:


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## 97194

> logical as the large m/h use more electric,..............,use more water!


With due respect - thats codswallop IMHO - surely it is dependent upon how many folks are on board - how can 2 people in a small MH use less facilities than 2 people on board an RV   :lol: :roll: :roll:

They would all cook and wash same amount and perhaps visit WC an equivalent number of times - heating depends on temperature, both may watch TV and satellite etc etc

In fact one man and his dog in an RV would possibly use less than a couple in a small VW


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## 88724

Hi Samback

thats easy, large motorhomes that wild camp will occassionally use a site to dump the black tanks and fill up with water


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## 97194

Good point George ............................. however, for example, if on average 2 people on board use 25 litres of water a day...... then thats what they use whatever van size.........undertaking similar duties  merely means that a smaller van fills up more often than a larger unit and similarly for waste disposal :wink:


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## 88724

Hi Sam

Then of course they could offer discount for longer stays.................


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## peedee

*Greedy siote owners*

George does indeed make some good points but I still think it is poor marketing to charge for the extras that many sites do. If they charged a flat rate based on pitch plus two adults, then they are not leaving themselves open to scrutiny such as we are having here. No matter how hard they try to justify these extras there will always be those that will consider them unfair/too expensive and I firmly believe they lose business by it. In the extreme and where there is no choice, they will simply opt to wild camp.

peedee


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## autostratus

GeorgeTelford said:


> Hi Samback....thats easy, large motorhomes that wild camp will occassionally use a site to dump the black tanks and fill up with water


Not just 'large motorhomes' as it has been reported that some campsites in France are charging motorhomes of any size extra for only staying one night. Their reason reportedly is the dumping and filling up before going off wildcamping again.


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## sallytrafic

I don't think greedy is the right word. I'm sure everyone would want to maximise the profit of their investment, wouldn't they, and if you were too greedy your profit would fall because your occupancy rate would fall. 

As for the rather devisive big versus little argument in terms of charging 

There is one difference betweeen an RV and a smaller motorhome which swings the balance the other way. We've got a smaller one mainly so we can go everywhere a car can and we do nearly every day from morning to dusk and often a bit more. So actually the pitch is somewhere our 'This site occupied by a motorcaravan' sign stays during the day. We don't use any of the facilities during the day. It does mean that if there is an on site shop or bar we tend not to use those either, so denying the owner that revenue stream.

OK coming and going every day we must increase the wear and tear on the roads and grass pitch. We have two medium sized dogs which get 'de-pooed' on the dog walk if there is one and the bitch would damage the grass if she wee'd on it put she prefers concrete(!).

We also use the shower, toilet, chemical toilet disposal, dustbins and fresh water but on the other hand we normally draw just over 2 amp MAX and thats only when our tiny 2 cup kettle is on. I say normally but in an effort to make our van 4 season use I have an 800W heater but so far haven't taken it with us.

Our batteries don't need too much of a top up which is why we don't always bother with a hookup.

If there is anything that we think should be charged for that generally isn't, that would be ground sheets. The unsightly damage they cause if not lifted IMO should be paid for.

So I've had my two pennyworth on the subject 


Regards SallyTrafic

Ps when arriving back late at night we have a silent routine that would do credit to submariners and in creep mode our van is overtaken by walkers.


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## DABurleigh

"bitch would damage the grass if she wee'd on it put she prefers concrete(!)."

Wow. Ours is the reverse. Deny her grass and her bladder control is a wonder to behold.

For those who have problems with burnt grass, give them a tomato each day. Someone told us about it and it certainly seems to work!

Dave


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## peedee

autostratus said:


> Not just 'large motorhomes' as it has been reported that some campsites in France are charging motorhomes of any size extra for only staying one night. Their reason reportedly is the dumping and filling up before going off wildcamping again.


I can only see this as a retrograde step driving more to use aires and wildcamp. On the other hand Gillian, in some continental countries, mainly the Scandinavian ones, there are consortiums running "Quickstops" where 
you get as much as 30 percent off the nightly rate for just a night stop if you arrive and depart between certain hours. I have also stayed on sites where areas are specifically reserved for night stoppers. Sites in this country could well take a leaf out of the continental book especially those close to our main holiday routes. Such overnight pitches could have very limited facilities and cost less???? Pigs might fly too

peedee


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## olley

At Run cottage in suffolk, the owner was telling me it took him 2 years to get permission to change from a CL to a 20 pitch site. Councils don't seem to like camping sites. 

More people are going camping and with the shortage of pitches prices are bound to rise.

Who is going to invest the time and money necessary to open a site facing this level of opposition.

Is this attitude the same across the country? 

Olley


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## takeaflight

Where I live it appears that unless you are a large builder knocking down a couple of very attractive properties, which IMO adds to the ambience of a small market town and replacing them with 60 yes 60 block and plaster board houses then the planning departments answer is usually no, or yes with conditions that may as mean no. With respect to getting a touring site past them, you would probably have more chance of getting Brownhills to put prices and their ads and web site.


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## peedee

olley said:


> More people are going camping and with the shortage of pitches prices are bound to rise.
> 
> Who is going to invest the time and money necessary to open a site facing this level of opposition.
> 
> Is this attitude the same across the country?
> 
> Olley


Channel crossing costs are at an all time low. If they stay like this, site owners and local councils making it difficult/expensive for the camper, will only be cutting their own throats. Campers, motorhomers especially, are more welcomed than here, overnight and fuel costs are lower. Currently many of us only do one trip a year but if prices continue to rise I can certainly see myself making multiple trips per year.

peedee


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## 98482

*Greedy Campsite Owners*

We drove to Bath last year for a long weekend and found a really good site adjacent to the cycle route.
Our neighbour was an Aussie whi had just started a UK tour and we got chatting like you do. We decided on a BBQ and I went to ask for a couple of bricks to protect the grass, sure no problem the boss said that will be £4.00 please for the brick hire. Is this a first. My new Aussie mate was so suprised I THINK he said strewthmate !!! or something along the lines on what he could do with his bricks

Rob :lol:


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