# French Speeding Fines



## groovedigger (Jun 12, 2005)

We holidayed in France (as we do most years) between the 1st & 19th August. We were unlucky enough to breakdown in our slow old VW LT camper which normally keeps me well under the speed limit!

I just been hit with 4 speeding fines! I drive in France every year and this was a real shock. All under 10% over the limit but still that's 4 x €45 I wasn't expecting to have to pay. 

It was a hire car - what are the chances of them coming after me if I don't pay? Naughty I know but as the new legislation only came into place this year I'm assuming I may just slip under the wire!

The fines all occurred on the day we had to pick the hire car up as a result of having to leave the MH in the garage. Reckon I could argue a lack of familiarity with the hire car as an excuse?!

They were incurred on the 3rd & 4th August, are dated the 27th Sept and have to be paid by the 13th Nov (46 days) before they go up...

I guess this is new to all of us...


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I got flashed by a speed camera on the motorway in Poitiers on Sunday. It was in a 70 limit and according to the sat nav I was doing 73 kph at the time. Oh well.


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

hi

i would have thought they got your details from the hire company

they may hold the hire company responsible and the hire company may still have your deposit card number and take it from your card

as normally when hiring a car abroad you sign something saying that you are responsible for all fines incurred

might be best to just pay it as sooner or later it will come around to bite you and will be a lot more

barry


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Pay up and put it down to experience. 

You WILL have signed something when you picked up the hire car to say you will accept responsibility for all fines etc incurred during the hire period, and yes the French authorities WILL chase you for payment. 

Or chase the hire company who will pay it “on your behalf” then add an “admin fee” to it and persue you for the higher amount (and of course don’t forget they have your credit card details!!!)

The only thing I would suggest is that you check is the TIME of the fines just in case it was one of the hire company employees delivering the car to the depot (rather than you) who was speeding! Bit of a long shot though eh??

Being unfamiliar with the vehicle, and having your mind very much on “other things” you were clearly not paying enough attention to your speed (But getting caught FOUR times in one day is rather careless)

Andy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree with Andy, check the times as if you did not for example, take the car over until 1400 and the tickets are timed at 0900 - 1030 that would be your ONLY "get out clause".

But the onus is on you to prove that you could not possibly have been driving the car at the time indicated because you did not have it - good luck, you will need it because that then means persuading the hire car company that one of their drivers was responsible and they will all deny liability.......... and their "Admin fees" suddenly go up onto your credit card. 

It would be possible also to block that credit card and ask for a new one - if done quickly tat would prevent the hire car company taking money from it, but you will then be pursued through the French courts where everything is in French and you are guilty unless you can prove that you are innocent......

Cheapest and easiest is to pay and put it down to experience......


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I also guess it's less hassle and sleepless nights if you do pay up. Plus of course €45 (x4) is a damn sight cheaper than speeding fines in UK.!!!!!

Ray.


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Flashed twice in France last week (by a speed camera?) saved my Dash Cam footage (under £100) including time and location to prove innocence.
Luckily I was in my own MH.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Ted

Good luck with that. I appreciate that you have dash can footage but is it timed and dated, along with GPS location. Even if it is the authorities COULD (will?) claim that it would be very easy for you, once you realised you had been flashed, to alter the time and date on your dash cam again drive down the same stretch of road again BELOW the posted limit. 

I am NOT suggesting that is what you have done but, if “they” have photographic evidence it WILL be a huge uphill struggle for you. Don’t forget you will be dealing with a foreign legal system, in a foreign country, in a language you don’t use. 

It MIGHT be worth considering ALL the implications before you decide to fight it. Many have tried in the past, very few have succeeded. It might just be better to pay the fine and walk away feeling aggrieved but not stressed out of your mind by months of legal wrangling. 

Andy


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## autostratus (May 9, 2005)

I can't see the point of getting involved with a (probably) long drawn out argument with the hire company or the French authorities for the sake of £90.
In the context of the total cost of your holiday it's probably peanuts.
Bite the bullet, pay up and put the incident down to experience.


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Point taken Andy, all relevant info on the clip including the 'flash' and the instant rollicking from the passenger seat.:frown2:
Spent too many years over the water to argue more than once:wink2:


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## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

well lets see it
looking forward to hearing the rollocking

barry


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

powerplus said:


> well lets see it
> looking forward to hearing the rollocking
> 
> barry


Come on, i'm sure you've heard it all before!:grin2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Has anyone been done or KNOW of anyone been fined under the new legislation that allows funny foreigners to pursue us for breaking their speed limits? This is not the same as its a hire vehicle and easy for the authorities to pursue the hire car company.

I got flashed twice in Germany back in June and wondered if I might have a fine by now. 

It's all wrong if you ask me. Who won Brexit anyway?


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

*"It's all wrong if you ask me. Who won Brexit anyway?"*

We did Barry, Hip, Hip, Hooray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Those bloody foreigners don't like us, no change there then!.

ray.


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm making no comment about Brexit but apparently the fines / disclosure thing is one way - i.e. British motorists can be pursued for speeding in Europe but not the other way around! Should we be surprised!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...s-continent-face-640-speeding-fines-saturday/


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Ted

By the sounds of it you might be in with a chance providing your dash cam records speed. It would be very difficult to see how a prosecution could succeed if the footage shows your speed at the point the flash fires off. I was forgetting that French cameras take a picture from the front rather than the rear.

Out of interest what was the limit and what speed are you alledged to have been doing? Just a thought but are they going for the speed limit on the road i.e. for instance excess 130 on a motorway with a car, or excess class limit which would, if a MH over 3500Kg be 90 on the same motorway?

If you have the speed showing then it’s Got to be worth a try so go for it and email “Them” a COPY of your dash cam video file. 

Do let us know how you get on.

Andy


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

Andy........... Speed, Co-ords, Date, Time all shown.
Lived in Germany for 20+ years so I automatically convert KPH/MPH...plus most other Metric/Imperial figures.....I even go back to Chains/Links and Rods as a Surveyor in a past life.:nerd:
Will certainly report if there is any outcome:smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The French system does NOT have the tolerance values that apparently exist in the UK, I believe that in the UK the Asslciation of Chief Constables stated that the maximum speed + 10% plus 2 is the lowest figure that you would be prosecuted for (this MAY have changed recently though....)

In France even 1kph over the limit is sufficient for a fine notice to be issued and the accuracy of any system cannot be challenged under French statute. If they say you were doing 51 kph and your system shows you were only doing 45, *tuf*. Their system is deemed accurate, yours is not.

The motorway system also seems to be able to mix the response from two vehicles to give a higher figure - we were driving at 95 on a motorway and were overtaking a lorry doing 70, somehow the system flashed up that we were doing 140+ and to slow down...... but no fine was ever issued - it appears it took the signal from both vehicles and came up with an anomaly..........

But once issued the chances of them revoking it are slghtly lower than the proverbial "snowball in hell". They are simply not interested and will double the fine AND issue Court procedings.....


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I think I get the gist:surprise:
It's probably why we have only visited France for the past 3 years .....going elsewhere for the previous 50>
We at least had to have a look! 0


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I'm sure I got flashed on a French motorway back in July. I was doing under the limit but maybe not for over 3.5 ton. I think I posted about it being odd. I am under 3.5 ton on a good day

Maybe I'll have a raft of dubious fines waiting on the mat back home 
Maybe they are all out looking for me for none payment right now! I might be arrested at Calais!!!


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

With any luck you will. It'll keep the rest of us laughing for a week.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Oh Alan, how could you.............................:surprise::surprise::surprise::grin2:

Ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Have Johnny Foreigner countries actually started posting fines abroad now i.e. to Blighty? 

If so can anyone advise which countries are involved and when it started?

Graham :smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Have Johnny Foreigner countries actually started posting fines abroad now i.e. to Blighty?
> 
> If so can anyone advise which countries are involved and when it started?
> 
> Graham :smile2:


I think I asked that a while back and I've not heard anyone who has recieved a fine or multiple fines directly once back home. Maybe I'll be the first. 

Somehow I doubt it. What are they going to do if you don't pay or dispute it? Too much of a faff probably but I could be proved wrong.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Looks like “Guilty till proven guilty” then?

At least in the UK if you can add an element of doubt you are given the benefit of it. 

Good luck Ted but the portents don’t look too good do they?

Andy


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Mrplodd said:


> Looks like "Guilty till proven guilty" then?


Especially so if you're British.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

barryd said:


> I think I asked that a while back and I've not heard anyone who has recieved a fine or multiple fines directly once back home. Maybe I'll be the first.
> 
> Somehow I doubt it. What are they going to do if you don't pay or dispute it? Too much of a faff probably but I could be proved wrong.


Like you I can't see it happening at all tbh...

By the time it would get sorted we'll be Brexiting and then it would have very little chance after that I reckon...

Graham :smile2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

BUT, if it goes to a Court and you are found guilty in your absence, would then be liable for arrest by the Gendarmes if/when you cross the border into France again?

I do not know and am just playing Devil's Advocate as that is about the only way other than pursuing you through the UK legal system that I can see anything happening and the chances of a UK judge "doig you" for a possible offence in France must be close to zero. They will simply shrig their shoulders and ask; "How many Frenc lorry drivers or car drivers have been caught in the UK?"

The last figure I heard from Devon and Cornwall Police for outstanding fines for motorists caught speeding in their force area was just over £2.5 million in the 6 month period....... that's an awful lot if it is correct and I have no reason to doubt it as the BBC quoted it after a Freedom of Information request during 2016.......


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

As you suggest though, these are big "if's"...

I cant see it myself.

Graham :smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Just to clarify a small point.

Any “income” from fines does NOT go to the Police in whose area the offence took place but to “Central Government” funds BUT if you attend a “Speed Awareness Course” the profit DOES go to the Police force. Hence the huge increase in speed awareness courses (and the increase in the threshold where you get offered such a course rather than being fined. 

Did someone say income generation? Oh shame on you 

Andy


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Not directly related but in similar vein, my grandson now lives in Norway, is registered there as resident and has Norwegian registered vehicle. 
On a recent(ish) visit to UK he went over the Dartford crossing without paying the toll. 
He has now received a fine from the UK via Sweden for his crime, he has paid up as didn't want any problems.

.


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I forgot to pay the DART charge last year and received a "first offence" concession - pay within ? days and you don't have to pay the fine. Or appeal. The system wouldn't let me pay the £2.50 for some technical reason. I appealed and (eventually) heard I'd been forgiven. But in the meantime I had phoned from SA and my £2.50 was accepted.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

barryd said:


> I think I asked that a while back and I've not heard anyone who has recieved a fine or multiple fines directly once back home.


My daughter was flashed in France this June, not long after leaving the airport in a hired car. :-(

I'm pretty sure the fine came through directly from the French authorities.

Having said that, she lives in Ireland rather than UK but I reckon it would be the same for us.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I've had another one today on the way up to the Loire. 

90 kph dropped for no apparent reason to 70kph for about half a mile so I dropt my speed as you do and bugger me if I still got flashed. Never saw the camera but the GPS said 46mph which is 1mph over. Best hope the Frenxh are not on the ball.

Interestingly the first one I got was in June in Germany. If they were on the ball there and I had 14 days to cough up how's that going to work as I've not Been home yet.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Doesn't your GPS warn of fixed radar cameras Barry?
You can also have over-speed warnings turned on.

Ray.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I need to update my mapping. There seems to be a whole new crop of speed camera growing all over France, and yes I know it's illegal to have them on your mapping. I just don't care I'm a real rebel, I am. My face is a mess and I've torn my dress.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

SatNavs remain able to warn you of danger spots; that can include steep hills, dangerous bends, rough road surfaces, hairpin type bends , accident danger points and radar traps...... apparently that is perfectly legal.

What is NOT legal are the radar "Snooper" type evices that detect the radar emissions before you get there - they are definitely illegal and can lead to confiscation of the vehicle.......


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That's interesting Dave, I remember the discussion on the following thread was mirrored on here https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g187070-i12-k6272949-Sat_Nav_for_use_in_France-France.html saying that mapping with speed cameras was illegal in France.

And: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/d...at-are-the-rules-for-using-satnavs-in-France/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I can only say what I have been told, our Tom Tom told us;

http://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5560/~/tomtom-speed-camera-service-and-the-law

FRANCE
TomTom's service in France is certified to be 100% legal. Instead of warning for exact locations of cameras, TomTom warns for Danger Zones around any potential danger, including cameras.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

When I got my Tom tom start it removed all the cameras in France on its own. I never investigated putting them back as to be honest I wasn't bothered. I knew they couldn't do anything about it. Until now.  I forgot this year though. 

I still reckon the French won't be arsed to do anything but we will see. Not sure about the Germans though. They are a bit clever.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

eurajohn said:


> Not directly related but in similar vein, my grandson now lives in Norway, is registered there as resident and has Norwegian registered vehicle.
> On a recent(ish) visit to UK he went over the Dartford crossing without paying the toll.
> He has now received a fine from the UK via Sweden for his crime, he has paid up as didn't want any problems.
> 
> .


Same happened to us

We forgot and when we remembered couldn't pay it as the code had changed and we couldn't access it ,it was at our house

And we weren't

Text them to explain

Don't think they answered

But when our granddaughter , in England did, they charged us the minimum rate

Sandra


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

barryd said:


> When I got my Tom tom start it removed all the cameras in France on its own. I never investigated putting them back as to be honest I wasn't bothered. I knew they couldn't do anything about it. Until now.  I forgot this year though.
> I still reckon the French won't be arsed to do anything but we will see. Not sure about the Germans though. They are a bit clever.


Get those cameras back in. Both my Garmins keep the radar warnings (danger spots) all the time.

Ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mapping speed cameras are illegal. Mapping "Danger Zones" are not iirc...

Graham :smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Barry

There is a very simple way to avoid getting flashed.

Keep your eyes open, pay attention, and stick to the speed limit, that has worked perfectly for me for the last 45 years both in the UK and all over the Continent. 

Speeding fines are simply a voluntary contribution. 

Andy


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> Barry
> 
> There is a very simple way to avoid getting flashed.
> 
> ...


What's it like to be perfect Andy?


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Erneboy.

Can you please explain why it is that every time I post something suggesting that people need to pay a little more attention whilst they are driving, you feel it necessary to post a sarcastic comment asking me what it’s like to be perfect?? 

I assume you are not a thief but I don’t keep making comments about YOU being perfect do I?

All I have stated are IRREFUTABLE facts, IF you pay attention and stick to the limit you will NOT incur any penalties because you have done nothing wrong. 

That philosophy has worked for me for 45 years so perhaps others should adopt it and save themselves some money.

Andy


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well to be fair the last two I remember, one was on a French motorway and I was well under the speed limit by 10 mph but not or commercial vehicles which it must have wrongly thought I was and the one the other day was a drop from 90kph to 75 for about 400 yards and I dropped to 45 mph but it still went off (gps said 46 when I looked a second later. That's just ridiculous. 

The one in Germany was a similar situation, four lanes of traffic coMing into a city off a motorway. I just went with the flow and suddenly everyone slowed right down and flash! 

Seems to me some of these cameras are clearly just designed to catch people out to make money. They are not there for safety reasons at all.

Maybe we are lucky in the UK then as I can't remember being flashed by a camera ever there.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Barry

I would most certainly agree that some speed cameras are clearly located to act as “revenue generation” devices. I can think of a good few within twenty miles of where I live!

Andy


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Most 'Speed Cameras' are not only well signed anywhere near here but a speed limit reminder is placed just before the cameras.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Most 'Speed Cameras' are not only well signed anywhere near here but a speed limit reminder is placed just before the cameras.
> 
> Ray.


In France, but not the case in the UK.

Andy


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

In the UK they are supposed to be visible as they are brightly coloured aren't they?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Mrplodd said:


> That philosophy has worked for me for 45 years so perhaps others should adopt it and save themselves some money.
> 
> Andy


I rest my case Andy. Though I'd be interested to know whether you'd claim not to have exceeded a speed limit in all of that 45 year period or just to have been lucky enough not to have been caught doing so?

I'm afraid I didn't understand your thief reference.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

I'm sure it has been pointed out before but in France the speed limit is the limit, no tolerance. 
I believe the rationale is that the vehicle speed indicator will show a higher speed than the actual speed of the vehicle therefore a built in tolerance is effectively in place.

.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Erneboy

If you READ what I posted I said I have _never been prosecuted or had to attend a speed awareness course_ for the last 40+ years.

If I have driven many hundreds of thousands of miles over the last 30+ years (40+K in the last two years alone) and never been caught exceeding the speed limit there can surely only be two reasons.

1. I have been unbelievably lucky over an incredibly long period OR
2. I keep to the posted speed limits

I will leave you to decide which of the two is more likely.

The reference to thief is as follows.

I keep to the speed limit and dont get prosecuted for speeding, you post (yet again) a sarcastic comment asking me what its like to be perfect. 
I reply by saying I am sure you dont steal and so have not been prosecuted for theft, but I DONT post sarcastic comments asking YOU what its like to be perfect (because you are not a thief)

I have never ever suggested that I am perfect, but you have asked me that question on a number of occasions and, quite frankly, I am getting pretty fed up with it and would be grateful if you would desist from now on.

Thanks

Andy


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Incredibly lucky it is then Andy.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

That luck certainly doesn’t extend to lottery tickets though.

Andy


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

My commiserations.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Very kind of you, thanks. I try not to dwell on my desperate misfortune too much.

Andy


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm reliably informed that buying a ticket helps. I'm thinking of trying it.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I did a quick 220km. today to look at another camper in Ponterson.
Musta passed eight speed cameras and all had large warning signs and the posted limit just before the camera.
Can't be good for finance generating as it's evident to anyone unless your passing a truck at the time.

Ray.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The French seem to have a different attitude to cameras, they advertise their presence which must surely encourage observance of the posted speed limit, rather than the English system which sees them “less obvious” so many more drivers are penalised. 

Which attitude results in better compliance! Frankly I don’t know but what I DO know is that at locations where average speed cameras are installed the compliance rate is in the high 90%’s Whether that is due to the fact that the average speed cameras are always much more visible, or everyone knows they cannot be beaten, is open to speculation.

For my part I think education (the French attitude) is far superior to enforcement (the English system) The French system WILL of course penalise those inattentive enough to miss the warning signs. 

It would be interesting to know what the prosecution rate is in France compared to England. 

Andy


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

erneboy said:


> I'm reliably informed that buying a ticket helps. I'm thinking of trying it.


That'll never catch on...

Graham:smile2:


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

On our recent trip through the NL and Germany we encountered many, many stretches of major and minor roadworks (especially in Germany). The area around Hamburg especially so.

What stood out in our mind though was that in *every case* there was no deployment of average speed cameras and in *every case* all drivers obeyed the posted reduced speed limit...give or take a few Km's or so. They were obedient to the law and as such used common sense in their speeds. I cannot recall a single incident where a driver zoomed through at anywhere near the normal speed for the road.

We remarked upon it at the time and wondered...well we knew really - what it would be like in Blighty if all the average speed cameras were taken away from our roadworks:surprise:

In fact overall the standard of driving especially in the NL was excellent...

Graham:smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

The attitude in the states to speeding is the same.

It only seems to be in England that drivers seem to feel it’s acceptable to speed and then they whinge like hell because its “unfair” or “an unreasonable limit” or “I didn’t see the signs” etc if they get caught.

Andy


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Luckily I was caught in France so I needn't whinge.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I am happy to take my chances with German, French Spanish etc speed enforcement. Unlike UK Police Forces they have not got revenue generation at their core. The Dorset PCC Martyn Underhill shows himself to be a complete hypocrite by saying " 'There must be absolute transparency on where that public money goes. Sadly, I have been unable to obtain that clarity in relation to payments made before 2015. Public money needs public scrutiny.'" This from a man who refuses to provide a breakdown of how the profits from Dorset Driver Awareness Courses are spent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...money-missing-private-firm.html#ixzz4vbRTNNTc


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I was not offered a course when I got caught speeding and yes I freely admit I was......

Going to Shepton show, came off M5 at taunton and turned right, (turning left has a 50mph speedlimit on the dual carriageway), saw no signs so stupidly assumed same speed as road conditions identical - both dual carriageway and both with street lights.

Sadly I did not see the ONLY 30mph sign on the left hand side tucked into the bushes and with a large lorry obstructing it. I fairly got caught by a speed van parked on the other side..... apparently it is there virtually every day and generates thousands of fines every year - I was told by Taunton police.....

I wonder why that is? No road markings, only one 30mph sign, hidden amongst bushes and by a parking place where large vehicles are encouraged to stop....... Suspicious methinks, but I could not be bothered to challenge it as I was speeding and it was my fault. I paid the fine, accepted the points and they are now time-expired so all history.

BUT if ever I go there now I slow down markedly as the road is still marked in exactly the same way; one sign only (nearside), not road markings and overgrown bushes obscuring it......

Just beware if you use that junction - it is 30mph when heading East away from Taunton.....


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Penquin said:


> Going to Shepton show, came off M5 at taunton and turned right, (turning left has a 50mph speedlimit on the dual carriageway), saw no signs so stupidly assumed same speed as road conditions identical - both dual carriageway and both with street lights.


The whole Taunton roundabout is now 40mph and the 30mph limit starts at the Toby Carvery. There are signs, with speed camera signs, on both sides of the road but not level with each other.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Obviously chaged since I was last there (probably five.six years ago?) got caught 7 ears ago and yes, I was speeding....

I wonder if the new signs etc. were introuduced after numerous complaints> I have photos from the time showing a lack of signage.....


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Simple thing to remember.

If there are street lights then it’s a “Restricted Road” and the limit is 30 UNLESS there are repeater signs indicating a HIGHER limit.

Andy


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

It was interesting to note that Austria is to sue Germany in the ECoJ over the proposed road charging scheme.
http://news.sky.com/story/austria-sues-germany-over-motorway-tolls-11077537


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Allegedly all fines in France go towards road safety.

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Speeding-fine-This-is-where-your-money-really-goes

Davy


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah sure, just like they do in the UK :wink2:

Andy


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Well as the man who jumped off the 40 story building on the way down said "So far so good"

Been back since Saturday night and having gone through all the post no speeding fines yet. The first one was Germany over three months ago but some of the French ones were more recent.

I reckon they are not bothering. Probably.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

barryd said:


> ... The first one was Germany over three months ago but some of the French ones were more recent.


You're a slow learner Barry! ;-)


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

barryd said:


> Well as the man who jumped off the 40 story building on the way down said "So far so good"
> 
> Been back since Saturday night and having gone through all the post no speeding fines yet. The first one was Germany over three months ago but some of the French ones were more recent.
> 
> I reckon they are not bothering. Probably.


I'm not a betting man usually Barry but I'd have half a crown that you'll be fine!

Graham :smile2:


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

d or just fine Graham?


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

fine as in OK Al :smile2:

Graham :smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I reckon they saw the Love heart EU Flag stickers on the back of the van on the photo and considered me an ally and let me off.


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## skid (Nov 21, 2005)

The good thing is they don’t need your licence ,don’t send it just pay the money.

The voice of experience as I live in France


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

skid said:


> The good thing is they don't need your licence ,don't send it just pay the money.
> The voice of experience as I live in France


Both times I have been flashed for speeding in France, they not only send the fine of €45 or double if you delay, but a week later a notification that I have lost one of my 12 points. It's reinstated six months later and my insurance company didn't want to know.

Ray.


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## groovedigger (Jun 12, 2005)

Got a fifth a week or so later! All paid now. A very seamless and easy online payment system! 

Lesson learned, but in 32 years of driving all over Europe it's left me with a bitter sweet taste. I know I was over the limits, but every time by less than 10%... I guess that's just the way I drive in the UK. Lesson learned. Still love and miss those wonderful empty French roads...


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There is no 10% tolerance in France; 1 kph over is enough

I believe that the "10% + 2" mph tolerance in the UK has also now been stopped..... thanks to avarage speed cameras but one advantage is that according to the BBC many forces do not have their speed cameras functioning......

Of course it is a gmable whether where you are does or does not.....

only answer; stick to the limits.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

FIVE speeding fines???

You clearly have a very heavy right foot AND you don’t pay sufficient attention to your speedo.

If your vehicles are fitted with cruise control then try and get into the habit of using it around town, I use mine all the time and it’s a very useful “licence saver” (speed limiters are even better, but I don’t have that facility) 

If you slow down just a little you will save fuel (and fines) and you will still arrive at your destination albeit a few minutes later (but many £\€ better off)

Andy

And before the usual suspects ask me (yet again) if I am perfect the answer is no BUT the last speeding fine I had was in 1972 and I currently still do 18K miles a year.


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## emjaiuk (Jun 3, 2005)

One of several useful things I picked up on a speed awareness course was the suggestion that in built up areas you try and travel in a lower gear than normal, which has the effect of slowing you down


Malcolm


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

emjaiuk said:


> One of several useful things I picked up on a speed awareness course was the suggestion that in built up areas you try and travel in a lower gear than normal, which has the effect of slowing you down


They may be right but hardly environmentally friendly as unless you adjust your speed you will be burning more fuel, increasing emissions and making more noise!


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

Penquin said:


> I believe that the "10% + 2" mph tolerance in the UK has also now been stopped..... thanks to avarage speed cameras but one advantage is that according to the BBC many forces do not have their speed cameras functioning......


As of 4 months or so ago, Hampshire police "allowed" you 10% + 1mph - or so they informed me when I received a notice of intended prosecution for exceeding the national speed limit by 10% + 3mph!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Still nothing on the doormat for me yet although I did get a bill from Besancon hospital which I paid.

Looking at the time frame though they seem to be pretty slow in sending them out so I might get a few in time for Christmas.


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

Malcolm’s post about driving in a lower gear is very good advice. I have been doing this for a few years, and curiously according to the dashboard computer more fuel efficient which I would not have believed before owning this current car which obviously has one.

Davy


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

barryd said:


> Still nothing on the doormat for me yet although I did get a bill from Besancon hospital which I paid.
> 
> Looking at the time frame though they seem to be pretty slow in sending them out so I might get a few in time for Christmas.


might also be getting a few in time for Xmas. got flashed at least twice driving through France on our recent trip, but I reckon one of them is clearly wrong as it was on the autoroute just outside Boulogne and I was definitely not over - was doing 110 kph which is allowable for a 3.5t m/h on cruise control. maybe they were tagging me as a bigger truck - dunno - wait and see what comes in the post.

any idea how long approx between being flashed and getting "the letter"??


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

fatbuddha said:


> might also be getting a few in time for Xmas. got flashed at least twice driving through France on our recent trip, but I reckon one of them is clearly wrong as it was on the autoroute just outside Boulogne and I was definitely not over - was doing 110 kph which is allowable for a 3.5t m/h on cruise control. maybe they were tagging me as a bigger truck - dunno - wait and see what comes in the post.
> 
> any idea how long approx between being flashed and getting "the letter"??


Could be two to three months looking at some of the Posts but I think the OP was done via a hire car company so maybe takes longer. There should be a time limit really like there is here. If the rozzers dont deal with it within two weeks here I think thats it they cant do you.

One of my flashes was the same as yours on an autoroute. Well under the limit but still got flashed. Dave Penquin reckons they will just see its a motorhome and not bother but from what i can gather if they do try and fine you then you have to appeal and the appeal process has to be in French. To be honest this is all open to a bit of abuse really. I would certainly contest any on a motorway if i did get one but how easy will that be?

Anyway, still so far so good for me. The German one was early July so I would say thats a dead duck now.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Any official reply I make to a French office I do a Google translate and include my English version as well to try and clarify any misunderstanding. 
Got us through quite a lot of serious discussions and complaints.

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I do exactly the same does not always work sadly it depends on who you are dealing with but the one thing I have found is that any chance of a reply from them is seriously slowed down......


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

This may have been asked before but do the fixed cameras in France distinguish between less than and over 3.5 tonnes? I took the chance last year and routinely ignored the lower > 3.5t limits and despite going past numerous cameras never received a ticket so I presumed not.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Personally I really don't know Peter. I can imagine they differentiate between cars and HGVs but doubt each class.
They would have to be bloody clever cameras with all the anomalies. 

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

AFAIK the distinction is based on height at peage's and there are no cameras that can distinguish between HGV, large van, bus or similar I believe in the UK they do have some system for weighing vehicles as they pass a point but have no clue how it works or how accurate it is.... I have not heard of the French using similar technology.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

In the UK a “Notice off Intended Prosecution” (N.I.P.) must be served on the registered keeper within 14 days of any speeding offence.

However if you lease/hire your car and don’t get an N.I.P. within 14 days that doesn’t mean you have a get out because the notice was served on the registered keeper (the lease company) Within 14 days.

I have no idea if the same system operates elsewhere. 

Norway most certainly Pursue speeding fines, a work colleague (copper!) got flashed many years ago. He ignored the first letter but when the second arrived threatening arrest for non payment if he ever entered Norway again he coughed up PDQ!

Andy

SOME fixed speed cameras in the UK can differentiate between cars and HGV’s but they certainly cannot differentiate between sub 3.5 and over 3.5 MH’s. Don’t forget that some sub 3.5 tonne MH’s can be uprated to over 3.5.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

They will be using the number plate to get details of the owner and vehicle and can discover the weight if they care to.


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## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

erneboy said:


> They will be using the number plate to get details of the owner and vehicle and can discover the weight if they care to.


Yep that's how they do it here, they just check your immatriculation, if your van is registered as 3500 Kgs they don't issue penalty notice, even if you've been flashed by one of the HGV cameras that was activated by your height.

.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> AFAIK the distinction is based on height at peage's and there are no cameras that can distinguish between HGV, large van, bus or similar I believe in the UK they do have some system for weighing vehicles as they pass a point but have no clue how it works or how accurate it is.... I have not heard of the French using similar technology.


Dave, in the UK WIMS (Weigh in Motion System) equipment has been in place since 2004 and in conjunction with ANPR it is now used by VOSA to highlight vehicles to be pulled in to certified weigh bridges.

http://www.transportsfriend.org/enforcement/wims.html

Terry


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

barryd said:


> Could be two to three months looking at some of the Posts but I think the OP was done via a hire car company so maybe takes longer. There should be a time limit really like there is here. If the rozzers dont deal with it within two weeks here I think thats it they cant do you.
> 
> One of my flashes was the same as yours on an autoroute. Well under the limit but still got flashed. Dave Penquin reckons they will just see its a motorhome and not bother but from what i can gather if they do try and fine you then you have to appeal and the appeal process has to be in French. To be honest this is all open to a bit of abuse really. I would certainly contest any on a motorway if i did get one but how easy will that be?
> 
> Anyway, still so far so good for me. The German one was early July so I would say thats a dead duck now.


Aside from those who have hired a vehicle, do you know of anyone who has had fines coming through the post to them from France (or indeed Germany) after being flashed?

Graham:smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GMJ said:


> Aside from those who have hired a vehicle, do you know of anyone who has had fines coming through the post to them from France (or indeed Germany) after being flashed?
> 
> Graham:smile2:


No I dont think so. There is a similar thread running on the wildies right now https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/motorhome-chat/65150-french-speeding.html and it looks like anyone who has been done has been in a hire car or a none UK registered vehicle. I was talking to one of my customers this morning who got flashed at 3am near Cognac, again in a hire care. €90 fine.

Touch wood I would say they are not bothering pursuing UK registered vehicles at the moment but that may change. I cant believe they would be this slow off the mark but maybe ill get mine in time for Christmas.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Tell them to "Go whistle" Baz.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

There were announcements before the June 23rd. event that the IT systems would be linked w.e.f. this summer BUT the UK refused to underwrite the costs involved and that was before the Referendum result was announced.

I suspect that the chances of it going through now have been reduced still further as there are more important considerations being discussed / negotiated and this topic is unlikely to feature highly on the Agenda.......

Hence my concerns about people registering their vehicles on the Paris type Crit d'Air sticker system as that immediately gives those i/c the registration details for the vehicle, even if it is NOT French registered.....

I genuinely hope that I am wrong and being cynical but to me, paying to hand over such details to the French authorities might well be inviting repercussions..........


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

barryd said:


> No I dont think so.


There is your answer!

Graham :smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

It’s a lot easier to just keep to the speed limit! That way there is nothing to worry about. 

Andy


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> It's a lot easier to just keep to the speed limit! That way there is nothing to worry about.
> 
> Andy


I agree Andy and always endeavour to do so however given the lack of even a marginal tolerance above the limit and the fact that we are abroad, driving on the other side of the road (plus I have to say that speed signage is not always great) I can see why folks get caught out.

Let him without sin etc etc

Graham :smile2:


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well I am either incredibly lucky or very good at sticking to the limit because the last time I got done for speeding was in 1972. 

I do about 18K miles a year both UK and Continent both solo and towing.

Now where’s that polish for my halo gone??

Andy


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

I had to go on a "Speed awareness course" earlier on this year, my first speeding fine, 

I got it on a trip to Northumberland on the A1M as a treat for Sandra for looking after me, I had been through various road works with 50mph limits and I set the cruise control to 50mph.. I hit another set of road works with the average speed limit so I just pressed the cruise control which brought my speed to 50 again and carried on regardless. 
A few weeks later I got a speeding fine through the post, the speed limit on this particular stretch of road works was reduced to 40mph, a case of not paying attention to the signs, after all road works are generally 50mph, as we all know there is never anybody actually working in these things!..

ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Mrplodd said:


> Well I am either incredibly lucky or very good at sticking to the limit because the last time I got done for speeding was in 1972.
> 
> I do about 18K miles a year both UK and Continent both solo and towing.
> 
> ...


Around 10 years ago I got up to 9 points on my licence and since then have made a conscious effort to obey all speed limits. I set the cruise control wherever possible to help this. I do it as much for the mpg as anything given the cost of fuel these days plus when in the MH we are never in a rush anyway.

I do 60 maximum on the motorways in the UK and am always amazed at how many caravanners speed past me...not just creep past mind, but must be doing closer to 70mph rather than their legal 60mph maximum.

Graham :smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

GMJ said:


> I agree Andy and always endeavour to do so however given the lack of even a marginal tolerance above the limit and the fact that we are abroad, driving on the other side of the road (plus I have to say that speed signage is not always great) I can see why folks get caught out.
> 
> Let him without sin etc etc
> 
> Graham :smile2:


You cant always concentrate on your speed, you may be reading a map or opening a beer for example or having lunch. 

There has definitely been a lot of cameras added in France though and it would seem to me to be in places purely to earn revenue rather than with safety in mind. Zero tolerance as well and as said they even go off on the motorway when your under the limit in a motorhome but as Dave has said they "seem" to discount those but I wonder how long it will be before they do send one out and good luck to anyone who gets one disputing it!

I cant remember ever being flashed in the UK at all in 34 years of driving although I have been done for speeding before years ago but had three or four in France in four months so whats that all about then?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> I agree Andy and always endeavour to do so however given the lack of even a marginal tolerance above the limit and the fact that we are abroad, driving on the other side of the road (plus I have to say that *speed signage is not always great)* I can see why folks get caught out.
> 
> Let him without sin etc etc
> 
> Graham :smile2:


Agree with that Graham.

In France the 50kph limit starts at the village/town sign and often these are hidden by foliage or obscured until the last minute by other signs. Some are even placed at traffic lights or junctions where one's attention is needed for other hazards than spotting the name sign.

The internationally accepted sign for 'Prohibitions' is that they are contained in a Red Circle, which the French do following the Village sign if the limit is 70kph, but not for the 50kph, for which there is only the name sign.

Satnav speed limits help, but cannot be relied on especially for 30kph limits in France.

Plus Ca difference!

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I’m hot on speed limits

But I’m not driving

I watch constantly and tell Albert , reduce your speed

Not that he ever really speeds but entering villages etc I remind him to reduce speed rapidly 

Well you need something to while away the hours 

Sandra


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

There is no doubt that speed cameras will increase in France as the authorities get used to the income and build them into their budgets. "There are 4,398 speed cameras on the roads in France, and counting, with the revenue from collected fines alone expected to surpass €1 billion in 2018.

Of this €845.2m, €351.5m went to the transport infrastructure financing agency (l'Agence de financement des infrastructures de transports); €254.7m went to local authorities, and €239m went to the road safety authority (Délégation à la sécurité routière).

Works primarily included the resurfacing of the national road network, improvements in tunnel security, and the installation of "smart" road signs.
In 2016 overall, 1.8 billion came from "road infractions" in total, of which €920m came from speeding fines. Of this, €845.2m was spent on road safety, with the rest of the money - €75m - going towards paying off State debt."

France is no different from the Dutch, UK, USA and other authorities in exploiting the money making opportunities that automated enforcement offers. Whole USA towns would have no law enforcement at all without the fines from speeding going into local coffers. If your job depended upon the income from speed offenders you would do all you could to keep the band wagon rolling. Catching low level offenders never was about " reducing deaths and injuries on our roads". I know, I know, if you do not speed you have nothing to worry about but do you really think opportunities to pay of state debt will be curtailed?
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Speeding-fine-This-is-where-your-money-really-goes

I guess they had better make money now before those automated cars come along and spoil the party.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No it won’t 

But speed limits remain speed limits 

And if you hit a kid at 35 miles an hour rather than 20 you will wipe out a life 

True 22 won’t really make a difference 

But it creeps up 

And I don’t know who decides the speed limits

But it isn’t my area of expertise 

So I need to trust that it’s someone’s 

And respect that

Sandra


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## TeamRienza (Sep 21, 2010)

For all you people waiting on tenterhooks for a 'french letter', have a look at this authentic french speed camera in action.






There are a few similar videos.

Davy


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