# Possibly useful for 90+days in EU



## Glandwr (Jun 12, 2006)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/post-brexit-homes-stay-longer-europe/


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Good advice and within reach of everyone wanting longer trips.

One question that I did not see the answer to, is what happens if you want to go from one EU Country to another ?

Italy looks unlikely to be on many peoples list though due to the expense….


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Penquin said:


> One question that I did not see the answer to, is what happens if you want to go from one EU Country to another ?


Good question. I'm guessing that if you have residency in one country it may open the doors for travel in others? Also as there are no border checks, visits wouldn't really be logged would they?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess ANPR would keep track and log.

Ray.


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## Dogslow (Sep 14, 2021)

The Spanish option looks good for us,I am going to do a little research on that one.I would imagine any state in the united states of europe which depend so heavily on tourism would welcome a few more long term visitors, October to March sounds nice and these temporary visa schemes sound very helpful.Thank you for posting this one


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Dogslow said:


> The Spanish option looks good for us,I am going to do a little research on that one.I would imagine any state in the *united states of europe* which depend so heavily on tourism would welcome a few more long term visitors, October to March sounds nice and these temporary visa schemes sound very helpful.Thank you for posting this one


That sounds rather like a note of disapproval, but surely it can't be. Just curious.


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## Dogslow (Sep 14, 2021)

Good morning Erneboy,
what gives you the idea I disapprove of anything


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Good morning Steve. I didn't get the idea that you disapproved of anything. I simply wondered whether you did, and then concluded that it was unlikely.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Glandwr said:


> https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articles/property-news/post-brexit-homes-stay-longer-europe/


Ray

That would only track the vehicle not who was in it.

Geoff


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## Dogslow (Sep 14, 2021)

Thank you,
I was just pleased that we would get the chance to stay longer.Looking at the requirements in that article regarding Spain we fit into the requirements needed to stay longer in Spain. for 63 years of my life I could only afford to go there for two weeks at a time.66 in April and a new state pensioner wow imagine all that money ? to enjoy for as long as the visa requirements allow.The world is changing all the time.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If you do apply it will be interesting to see how the reality stacks up against what the article says. It sounds easy enough. It would be nice if it actually was, but there's often quite a gulf between theory and reality.

No tax implications are mentioned. I'd be surprised if there really weren't any.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

People outside of the EU have been trying to find solutions to extending the 90 days Schengen limit since long before Brexit and it becoming a problem for us. That list of ways of doing it might sound easy but I dont think it is. I looked into it for France and its a nightmare, expensive and not at all guaranteed. For tourists I dont think its at all easy, if possible at all. 

If you do manage it for one particular country I think the 90 days rule would still apply for all the others which might get interesting at schengen borders when you return home if you travel through other countries. Government should have tried to negotiate 180 days which is what we allow but they had no interest in doing so of course and still dont. It would be very "unbrexity" and would smack of sucking up to those dirty words "Free Movement".


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes, it would be very unbrexity. Brexiters will naturally shun the idea as they won't expect rights in EU countries not granted to citizens of those countries in the UK.


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## 242633 (Oct 21, 2021)

barryd said:


> People outside of the EU have been trying to find solutions to extending the 90 days Schengen limit since long before Brexit and it becoming a problem for us. That list of ways of doing it might sound easy but I dont think it is. I looked into it for France and its a nightmare, expensive and not at all guaranteed. For tourists I dont think its at all easy, if possible at all.
> 
> If you do manage it for one particular country I think the 90 days rule would still apply for all the others which might get interesting at schengen borders when you return home if you travel through other countries. Government should have tried to negotiate 180 days which is what we allow but they had no interest in doing so of course and still dont. It would be very "unbrexity" and would smack of sucking up to those dirty words "Free Movement".


I'm sure EU offered the180 days stay but it was declined by UK, because it was still boasting of its pride in ending Free Movement in its pandering to the UKIP Tories, so difficult to see why EU would consider repeating the offer

It's still 90 days stay per individual EU State, and there are UK Travel Insurance considerations if you exceed 180 days away from UK each year [Nationwide requires you to spend 6 months minimum in UK]; and, if you do spend more than 6 months in a single EU State, you become a tax resident in that country

Steve


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ah yes, the fiscally domiciled ploy.

Ray.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> Ray
> 
> That would only track the vehicle not who was in it.
> 
> Geoff


That's a good point Geoff.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

But it's getting better now and it won't be long before the cameras can read the washing instructions on yer underwear.

Ray.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> But it's getting better now and it won't be long before the cameras can read the washing instructions on yer underwear.
> 
> Ray.


And do you think that EU countries are going to spend millions of Euros setting up facial recognition systems to check all the trillions of images caught by ANPR cameras to prosecute a resident of one EU country for overstaying in another EU country - to then what? deport him back to the EU country of residence?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

The new residency visas are only useful if one wishes to stay beyond 90 days in the country issuing them, but not of much use for MHomers wishing to travel in more than one country for more than the Schengen 90-day limit. A Spanish visa would only allow a UK MHomer to enter and exit by ferry, as to exceed 90 days in Spain would make it impossible to drive back through France and risk being stopped at Calais for overstaying Schengen 90 days.

Those countries that offer citizenship do offer the 'Free Movement possibility, but some require residence for 6 months per year, e.g. Greece - OK for a MHomer who wishes to spend 6 months in Greece and use any of the other 6 months for MH travel, but it has its limitations.

Geoff


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## 242633 (Oct 21, 2021)

nicholsong said:


> And do you think that EU countries are going to spend millions of Euros setting up facial recognition systems to check all the trillions of images caught by ANPR cameras to prosecute a resident of one EU country for overstaying in another EU country - to then what? deport him back to the EU country of residence?


The new EU Entry/Exit System has a heavy focus on detecting overstayers, without an increase in Border Guard numbers, and is costed on becoming self supporting within a 4 or 5 year period [can't remember the exact timescale]. The Press Release and supporting information acknowledges that the detection of overstayers, smugglers and people traffickers et al is ineffective and needs to remedied quickly

Steve


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

marchie said:


> The new EU Entry/Exit System has a heavy focus on detecting overstayers, without an increase in Border Guard numbers, and is costed on becoming self supporting within a 4 or 5 year period [can't remember the exact timescale]. The Press Release and supporting information acknowledges that the detection of overstayers, smugglers and people traffickers et al is ineffective and needs to remedied quickly
> 
> Steve


Steve

That system only covers the external entry/exit borders of Schengen/EU not the internal orders where a resident of one EU country passing into other EU countries might overstay his permitted time of 90/180 days outside his country of residence.

The system is not designed to control internal borders.

Geoff


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> The new residency visas are only useful if one wishes to stay beyond 90 days in the country issuing them, but not of much use for MHomers wishing to travel in more than one country for more than the Schengen 90-day limit. A Spanish visa would only allow a UK MHomer to enter and exit by ferry, as to exceed 90 days in Spain would make it impossible to drive back through France and risk being stopped at Calais for overstaying Schengen 90 days.
> 
> Geoff


But theoretically you could enter Spain by ferry; then tour around the EU and then leave Spain by ferry as long as you didn't exceed your extended visa for Spain couldn't you?

I understand that its an extended visa for Spain but once inside the EU with limited/no border checks, what's to stop you?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> But theoretically you could enter Spain by ferry; then tour around the EU and then leave Spain by ferry as long as you didn't exceed your extended visa for Spain couldn't you?
> 
> I understand that its an extended visa for Spain but once inside the EU with limited/no border checks, what's to stop you?


Yes you are correct and it would be legal as long as you did not exceed 90 days from entering Spain until back in Spain.

But this is not the pattern of touring most MHomers adopt at the moment, but may have to be an option for the future.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> Yes you are correct and it would be legal as long as you did not exceed 90 days from entering Spain until back in Spain.


...but again, what's to stop you and who is going to check you?

As long as you don't exceed your 1 year (or whatever length), visa whilst 'in' Spain (or wherever you roam), then I guess you could come and go with impunity.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> ...but again, what's to stop you and who is going to check you?
> 
> As long as you don't exceed your 1 year (or whatever length), visa whilst 'in' Spain (or wherever you roam), then I guess you could come and go with impunity.


You would not normally be discovered but you might be if involved in a vehicle crash or had to be admitted to hospital.

If your presence in France were discovered after you had spent 60 days in Spain and had spent 40 days in France you would be a Schengen 'overstayer' because you had spent 100 days in Schengen. The 60 days in Spain would not be discounted.

Geoff


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ideally for me and probably many motorhomers France would be the one to get an extended tourist visa if one actually existed. Its the easiest Schengen border to get into and out of from the UK. So say it was a six month Visa you could arrive in France for a couple of weeks, maybe spend 90 days in neighbouring countries, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy etc then spend the rest of the six months back in France before going home all quite legally. That would be my ideal but whilst there are visas available for France they are hugely complicated, not guaranteed and I dont think tourism is a qualifying reason for one sadly.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> If your presence in France were discovered after you had spent 60 days in Spain and had spent 40 days in France you would be a Schengen 'overstayer' because you had spent 100 days in Schengen. The 60 days in Spain would not be discounted.
> 
> Geoff


I thought we were talking about the extended visas for Spain here Geoff? Not the standard 90 day jobbie.

If you have an extended visa for Spain for say, a year, you can travel anywhere without borders for a year as long as you leave Spain before that year was up (notwithstanding an accident etc as you say but then how do les flics prove how long you had been in France? ...and I doubt that they would check days/weeks of ANPR footage)


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

GMJ said:


> I thought we were talking about the extended visas for Spain here Geoff? Not the standard 90 day jobbie.
> 
> If you have an extended visa for Spain for say, a year, you can travel anywhere without borders for a year as long as you leave Spain before that year was up (notwithstanding an accident etc as you say but then* how do les flics prove how long you had been in France? *...and I doubt that they would check days/weeks of ANPR footage)


In the scenario that I posited and you were found to have been Schengen after 100 days from entering in Spain it does not matter how many days you had been in France, because you were an overstayer in the whole of Schengen. The Spanish visa is not a Schengen visa.

Those of us who are residents in Schengen countries can indeed travel in the rest of the area for 90 days from time of leaving one's country of residence, but a visa holder is not a resident, so the 90 days starts from the day of entering any Schengen country.

Geoff


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

I know many people who rely on their mobile phone to prove where they have been ( or rather not been ). My country of residence ( Andorra) is not in the EU. There are a number of Brits who have 2nd homes here and continue to travel freely to and from the UK. If questioned on their overstay they rely on mobile phone data to prove they were not in Schengen . In theory you can ask for your passport to be stamped every time you cross the border but I would not want to insist on my rights with a grumpy Spanish or French border control. Getting an Andorran stamp is relatively easy as people do it for tourist purposes. Its the schengen exit stamp that counts though.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

nicholsong said:


> In the scenario that I posited and you were found to have been Schengen after 100 days from entering in Spain it does not matter how many days you had been in France, because you were an overstayer in the whole of Schengen. The Spanish visa is not a Schengen visa.
> 
> Those of us who are residents in Schengen countries can indeed travel in the rest of the area for 90 days from time of leaving one's country of residence, but a visa holder is not a resident, so the 90 days starts from the day of entering any Schengen country.
> 
> Geoff


... but as you said - only if discovered due to a car crash or similar. Even then I would suggest that there would be no way of checking how long you had been out of Spain given no border checks.

Entering Spain on your 1 year visa would enable you to freely travel throughout Schengen via France unless calamity struck, provided you left Spain before your visa ran out. You could easily move around and stay well over 100 days without being found out. I'm not saying it's legal but I cant see how you would be found out in the normal course of things.

I understand that a visa holder is not a resident but a Spanish visa for 1 year is good for staying in Spain for 1 year. Lets say I arrive on 1st January in Spain clutching my new 1 year visa. I go to my preferred/registered place in Spain but the next week I decide to drive to France as there are no border checks at the French border. I then spend the next, say 6 months driving around and staying in France, Germany, Belgium etc etc. After 6 months I come back to Spain to see out the last months of my visa and leave on 31st December, as it runs out. Not legal but do-able?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Surely they can link you to your car registration by checking DVLA records? The last time we travelled they made quite a show of checking our passport as we entered France. We were asked how long we intended to stay.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

patp said:


> Surely they can link you to your car registration by checking DVLA records? The last time we travelled they made quite a show of checking our passport as we entered France. We were asked how long we intended to stay.


They can find the Registered Keeper but does not prove who is the driver and who are the passengers. In which case they might realise it is useless to check, so why should they bother checking thousands of vehicles, for which the DVLA and other authorities might charge them per vehicle and then they would have to match up entry and exit dates, i.e. find the ANPR camera showing the exit date.

As I write I am starting to laugh at the absurdity of authorities even contemplating such a system.

Of course for it to work they would have to set-up ANPR cameras, and maintenance facilities on every by-road throughout EU. My friends live in a village just SW of Basel/Basle and to go into the city they cross 7 CH/FR/CH/FR etc. border crossings.

Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!

Geoff


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I've just applied for a 12m Long Stay Visa for France. There is a 6m one too. Apply on line but then you have to make appt to visit application centre (TLS in Wandsworth) with your passport and paperwork. Then you have to go back a 2nd time to pick up your passport with visa. You have to have medical insurance for 12m. GHIC only accepted for 6m visa. French Embassy just asked for more paperwork so I'll just have to see how it goes from hereon.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

HermanHymer said:


> I've just applied for a 12m Long Stay Visa for France. There is a 6m one too. Apply on line but then you have to make appt to visit application centre (TLS in Wandsworth) with your passport and paperwork. Then you have to go back a 2nd time to pick up your passport with visa. You have to have medical insurance for 12m. GHIC only accepted for 6m visa. French Embassy just asked for more paperwork so I'll just have to see how it goes from hereon.


Interesting Viv. You are the first motorhomer that I can think of thats done this. Can you keep us informed please and if possible let us know the costs, time and work involved etc? Can I ask also have you applied for a reason or just as a tourist? Six months would do us though I think. It just seemed a lot of hassle and expense when I last looked with no guarantees.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Following your progress too, Viv. Not sure, however, that Chris would get medical insurance


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