# Caravanner using an aire



## utccman

Hi

Not posted before as all my questions get answered by somebody else.

The in-laws have just come back from their first French trip in their Elnagh Marlin. Following advice from leeching on here and talking to me they stopped at a few aires and thoroughly enjoyed the freedom (and the economy).

They said that one night they stopped at the aire at Buchy (near Rouen). They pulled in at about 3pm and settled down for the evening. At about 9pm a British registered car and caravan pulled in to the aire and put their legs down to stop or the night. Father-in-law (being a 'rules' man) explained to the chap that it was for motorhomes only and got the response - I know 'used to have a motorhome and always use aires if it will fit in'. Inlaws were really peeved about this attitude.

My question - were my inlaws right to feel peeved or should they have just ignored the scenario. Also they have asked, is this common.


----------



## GerryD

Your In-Laws were absolutely correct in that Aires are only for Camping-Cars and caravans are strictly forbidden. They were also right in feeling peeved as the caravan was using a space that could have deprived a geniune user.
However, some people are impossible to talk to.
Gerry


----------



## DiscoDave

As long as they are not causing damage, playing loud music or otherwise disturbing the peace or being otherwise inconsiderate what's the harm? Live and let live. Or at least sit back and enjoy the entertainment that its spending two hours getting a caravan ready to boils the kettle


----------



## geraldandannie

I'm sure if the aire had been full and a French van wanted to get in, they would have been told in no uncertain terms.

Shame it was a UK van, though - in danger of giving us Brits a bad name.

Gerald


----------



## olley

If the aires not full, what's the harm; we are all campers aren't we?

Ian


----------



## rayc

An aire can be many things, municipal, private, attached to a campsite etc. The rules are not the same for all of them.
I stayed at an aire run by an agricultural college and they did not mind a caravan staying and paying the €5 nightly charge.
If your inlaws felt peeved then so be it but they are not responsible for 'policing' the rules. There is a very much live and let live ethos in France. 
Many French citizens do not appreciate the influx of campercars into their communities and the last thing we should be looking at is an increase in petty regulation.


----------



## Bill_H

Was the site full?
It's strikes me as odd that you can turn up with a motorcaravan towing a car, but can't use the site with a car towing a caravan.


----------



## peejay

I'm in the live and let live camp, if theres enough room it wouldn't be a problem for me.

Incidentaly, we stayed at the St Jean Pied de Port aire recently and caravans are permitted there, the sign says so.

Anyone noticed that there are also an increasing number of motorhomes with trailers, presumably long termers that park them alonside their van? Once again, no problems as long as there is room and I would like to think they would move the trailer elsewhere if they were taking the last slot.

Its worth noting that there are also a surprising amount of Stellplatz that accept caravans, just look in your Bordatlas.

Pete


----------



## JohnGun

Shame it was a UK van, though - in danger of giving us Brits a bad name.

Gerald[/quote]

Too late Gerald, damage is already done :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Telbell

I think it's selfish to park a caravan and car in an aire, and equally selfish to have a m/home and car in an aire.

All the French websites which concern themselves with Aires, mention Camping-Cars and not "Caravanes"

Ok asking "was it full?"....it may not have been early in the day- but it could be later on. I certainly would be peeved if I couldn't get on due to a caravan/car or motorhome/car taking upo space.

As for "Live & let Live"- okay then; let's allow the truckers on!


----------



## rayc

Bill_H said:


> Was the site full?
> It's strikes me as odd that you can turn up with a motorcaravan towing a car, but can't use the site with a car towing a caravan.


I was at a town canal side aire which has spaces for 8 MH's. When it is full other MH's park outside the aire along the canal side and nobody bats an eyelid yet a caravan parking in an aire causes peevishness. It is strange that a UK MH owner should get peeved about rules as there are a multitude of anti Motorhome rules in the UK to feel more peeved about. 
vivre et laisser vivre


----------



## drcotts

The harm is that often these aires are provided by the town or village to encourage campers to park there and use the facilites and shop in the town.

Caravan users can take the car in whereas i am sure half a dozen Mhs in a village taking up car spaces would have people moaning about that. They should stay out as these are for MHs. 

We moan about there being no Aires in the UK and this is precicely why its difficult to get councils to agree. Imagine what would happen. If the motorway services with caravan spaces in the UK are anything to go on they would soon be full of cars who couldnt give a toss.
Have you even been to cambride services on the a14?

We get a country who designs a facility designed and built just for motorhomes and caravan users use it. They are only doing it to get a cheap night usually.

These people are the type who probally park their cars in disables spaces. Whats the harm in that if theres no one waiting ?

And as you say its usually a brit.

Phill


----------



## rugbyken

a french friend incidentally an headmaster of a primary school , after the third bottle of red explained that president de gaulle was one of the driving forces behind the aires system, apparently to break down parochilism, and he stipulated that to stop gypsies you must be able to go from driving position to sleeping without getting out of van,
i'm personally in the live and let live school but in high season we ourselves are sometimes only grudingly accepted by the natives, and in france there are not the restrictions to wildcamping that there are over here, and a good selection of french passion sites that welcome caravans, i have a sneaking suspicion that if in the future i am in a caravan looking for somewhere to stop and know where there is an aire?????


----------



## inkey-2008

I have seen a few Dutch at an aire just passed Tours. More people were put out by the hippys in an old furniture lorry converted in to a motorhome but still carrying the old firms livery. 

Andy


----------



## olley

drcotts said:


> They are only doing it to get a cheap night usually.


And we're not?

Ian


----------



## utccman

Thanks for all your responses. They were the only ones using the aire until the caravan showed up (and it is pretty big, and next to an open air car park - I guess the caravanner felt safer on the aire as opposed to next door on the carpark).
I tend to swing towards the live and let live camp but father in law definitely doesn't. 

Incidentally I did not know that some aires were allowing caravans


----------



## erneboy

I am not at all keen on people setting themselves up as upholders of rules such as this one, I rather take the view that if the local community cared over much whether caravans stayed or not they would erect a large sign giving the information. If another user approached me to give unwanted and unasked for advice (in which it seems in this case he could have been wrong) he would receive short shrift for his trouble.

On a private Aire in Spain where we stay regularly and are friendly with the owner I was driving out to go shopping only to be stopped by a French man who had stayed for just one night. He took the view that I was attempting to leave without paying and had decided to appoint himself cashier. He stopped me leaving to demand that I give him 8 euros to pay for our nights stay, I declined politely at first, Alan.


----------



## jhelm

Seems a severe case of being a busy body and just sticking ones nose into other peoples business. I would not have been as polite as the caravan owner seems to have been. It is hard for me to see the problem. And why would someone take it upon himself to want to enforce some rules in another country than his own.

By the way last winter while parked at one of our close ski areas a couple pulled up with their caravan. They didn't seem to spend any time setting up and it took them less time to leave when they did than it took us. I had window coverings and hood coverings to remove, skis to put away, etc. They just put their ski inside and drove off.


----------



## Rapide561

*Caravanner*

The caravan would not have bothered me in the slightest - I do not make the rules, therefore not down to me to police it.

On a flip side, I park in lorry parks. How many other motorhomers have done so - even if only for a quick brew? Or the coach park?

Live and let live. Had he reversed the blooming thing into my van or something, then yes, I would have had something to say. 
Russell


----------



## Telbell

The more caravans use airEd the less space for mhomes. Logic. Then live and let Live eh?


----------



## Jean-Luc

In French law what we call Aires (Aire De Stationnrment Pour Camping-Car) are as the title suggests, parking areas for camping-cars, the key word is 'parking'. 
If steady's are down, water out, etc. it is no longer 'parking' it's 'camping'.
Secondly a car and towed caravan is not a camping-car, or 'self propelled caravan' as was the term used when the regulations were original introduced in June 1985.

As regards policing the regulations, that's up to the Police Locale or the Gendarmerie, but I wouldn't like to be a caravaner denying a campingcarist the last space :evil:


----------



## Bill_H

Telbell said:


> .
> 
> Ok asking "was it full?"....it may not have been early in the day- but it could be later on. I certainly would be peeved if I couldn't get on due to a caravan/car or motorhome/car taking upo space.
> 
> As for "Live & let Live"- okay then; let's allow the truckers on!


The OP says that the caravan turned up around 9PM


----------



## KeithChesterfield

If you let one caravan in - it could be the thin edge of the wedge.

You never know what'll turn up next --------


----------



## Grizzly

Telbell said:


> All the French websites which concern themselves with Aires, mention Camping-Cars and not "Caravanes"
> 
> !


Probably because the French for caravan is " roulotte".

If you look for that word you will see it on many French aires.

As far as I can see most caravanners recognise those places where they cannot reasonably overnight without a good deal of unhitching and faffing about and avoid them. When there are aires where they can drive-through park then good luck to them. It's not my business; we're all campers.

G


----------



## tony50

utccman said:


> Hi
> 
> Not posted before as all my questions get answered by somebody else.
> 
> The in-laws have just come back from their first French trip in their Elnagh Marlin. Following advice from leeching on here and talking to me they stopped at a few aires and thoroughly enjoyed the freedom (and the economy).
> 
> They said that one night they stopped at the aire at Buchy (near Rouen). They pulled in at about 3pm and settled down for the evening. At about 9pm a British registered car and caravan pulled in to the aire and put their legs down to stop or the night. Father-in-law (being a 'rules' man) explained to the chap that it was for motorhomes only and got the response - I know 'used to have a motorhome and always use aires if it will fit in'. Inlaws were really peeved about this attitude.
> 
> My question - were my inlaws right to feel peeved or should they have just ignored the scenario. Also they have asked, is this common.


----------



## tony50

utccman said:


> Hi
> 
> Not posted before as all my questions get answered by somebody else.
> 
> The in-laws have just come back from their first French trip in their Elnagh Marlin. Following advice from leeching on here and talking to me they stopped at a few aires and thoroughly enjoyed the freedom (and the economy).
> 
> They said that one night they stopped at the aire at Buchy (near Rouen). They pulled in at about 3pm and settled down for the evening. At about 9pm a British registered car and caravan pulled in to the aire and put their legs down to stop or the night. Father-in-law (being a 'rules' man) explained to the chap that it was for motorhomes only and got the response - I know 'used to have a motorhome and always use aires if it will fit in'. Inlaws were really peeved about this attitude.
> 
> My question - were my inlaws right to feel peeved or should they have just ignored the scenario. Also they have asked, is this common.


I think it's sad , and no wonder there seems to be ananosity ( tried spellcheck on this word ) between Motor homers and Tuggers , as already said it's ok for a motorhome towing a car or a big RV , I don't have a problem with whoever is on a Aire .

Tony 50


----------



## CurlyBoy

......I'm following this thread with interest and amusement, recalling the time when we turned up at this aire (stop there regularly) after a really miserable drive from Calais in the rain, only to find it full of caravans!!!!!!!!!!!!! and lorries, some 'orrible looking dogs, and thought "OMG pickies" but no, it was a fair. They had occupied the whole space, and there are from memory 20 or so pitches, they where on the grass edges, the roadways and even in the school carpark in front of the Aire. As it was getting late we wondered whether or not we should stay, but reluctantly decided no!! So we then had another 1/2 hr or so miserable drive in the pouring rain to Forge les Eau, which was almost empty by the way. Now, I'm all in favour of live and let live but I agree with another poster who wonders what the situation would become "IF" we ever find ourselves in the fortunate position of the French with their very generous provision of Aires, in this country?

curlyboy


----------



## Grizzly

CurlyBoy said:


> ., and thought "OMG pickies" but no, it was a fair. They had occupied the whole space,
> 
> curlyboy


Given that it was a fair then they certainly had the blessing of the locality in staying there. After all, where else are they to go when they need to overnight before setting up stalls and amusements next day ? When we have fairs here- 3 big ones per year- the caravans are parked in fields and car parks all over the place but that is to be expected.

We overnighted at St Amand Montrond among the fair caravans and vans and the worst noise and disturbance came from a Swiss motorhome parked behind us whose blessed dog yelped all night. The fair people took the opportunity to have their last early night for some days !

G


----------



## teemyob

*Munkeys*

Could not give a Munkeys.

Would the rules man have said anything if they were a group of 
Gypsies?.

Had a couple of occasions where we could not get on Aires due to caravans, we just moved on. If it is up to anyone, let the authorities deal with them.

Does not matter what the reg was. probably made a change from a Belgian, Frenchman, German or Dutch etc making names for themsleves. There are plenty of them, not all as bluddy white as.

Simple.

TM


----------



## Rockerboots

Surely if your away travelling you just want to relax & go with the flow so why get involved in argy bargy self inflicted?
If the tugger was badly parked or being a noise merchant then get your two bobs worth.
Other than that live and let live.


----------



## denisandflo

Are We not people of the same ilk anymore? Are We so diverse that We must argue the rights and wrongs amongst ourselves. Are We not all looking for the same thing?

I wish one and all a happy and stress free trip whatever method of travel and rest one has.

Denis


----------



## greenasthegrass

We have stayed at this Aire and its nothing more than a big car park we went mid August and one other van turned up. There is a boules thing at one end and very pleasant trot into the village. It is out on a limb a bit but who cares if a caravan turned up. They have started staying at Cite Europe.

More blinking rules why can't we just have a bit of freedom from rules .... It's not a question it's a statement!


Greenie


----------



## homenaway

A German car and caravan stayed at a small official parking aire in northern Brittany when we were there last year. No one was bothered and the French camping car next to us also had a car on an A frame bought in the uk.

We sometimes park sideways if there is plenty of space eg by a lake but would turn round if it became too full  

And how often do you see local's cars parked in the motorhome spaces even when there is plenty of room in the adjacent car park - that niggles us more  

At La Alberca in Spain this year there is the usual notice about no steadies, tables chairs etc (are ramps allowed?) or you will be punished by the mayor. But in the almost empty car park there was a family with folding picnic table playing football - the guarda civil ignored them  Also at another official autocaravanna area we stayed at Mondonedo in northern Spain there was a local's caravan parked with steadies down (and JCB's) parked.


----------



## 96706

Interestingly enough and possibly changing tack abit on the OP's original question.

We are off to France in July and were thinking of stopping overnight at Buchy after leaving Calais around 8pm.

Depending on the time, we may press on and try for Bernay, if all goes well. 

Are there any other alternatives that we might consider for a night stop, between these 2 places?


----------



## rosalan

I have a caravan!  

If I want to I will park it on an Aire.... So there! :evil: 

(p.s. Mine has an engine at the front) :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Alan


----------



## lifestyle

I suppose if they started to put up their awning and 2/3/4 sreaming kids began running up and down ,which normally go with caravans,i maybe a bit concerned.But in general no problems.They may have some nice wine on board :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Les


----------



## Rosbotham

Not that I've got a caravan to park on an aire, but in the position of the caravanner in the scenario described, I'd probably move on to get away from the British busybody who felt he had to interfere in my life...after responding with some choice words...


----------



## Jean-Luc

This thread seems to have turned into a them and us, them being tuggers one of whom I was for over twenty years and might well be again.

The real issue is that Aires were put in place for motor caravans and one of the reasons the initiative was successful was that motor caravans have on-board tanks for waste water, it is part of the regulation that no effluent of any kind should be allowed to escape onto the public place.

Caravans are expressly not permitted to 'camp' on aires, it's probably a mute point if one pulls in, remains hitched and no 'paraphernalia' is put outside, as is the rule for motor caravans.


----------



## Rosbotham

Jean-Luc said:


> The real issue is that Aires were put in place for motor caravans and one of the reasons the initiative was successful was that motor caravans have on-board tanks for waste water, it is part of the regulation that no effluent of any kind should be allowed to escape onto the public place.


Don't disagree with you J-L, but for me the "real issue" is (regardless what is allowed and not allowed) what right some busybody has to go wading in and telling someone what's allowed & not allowed. If those in authority tell them "no go", fair enough. If the locals tell them off, then once again fair enough. But there was no need for a Brit on holiday to become the self-appointed aires-police, particularly as no harm was being done. As it happens, I thought that some modern caravans had onboard tank facilities.


----------



## teemyob

*Stelplatz*

If you read the Bordatlas, they have many stelplatz marked as suitable / authorised for both wohnmobil (Motorhome) and wohnwagen (Caravan).

If Aires were to encourage both, then maybe they may be more viable and bring in more income, leading to better services.

Quite happy to see more caravans at Aires.

Tents and Camels, not sure.

TM


----------



## drcotts

olley said:


> drcotts said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are only doing it to get a cheap night usually.
> 
> 
> 
> And we're not?
> 
> Ian
Click to expand...

Well i am not anyway.
Its purley for the convienience as far as i am concerned. Seeing the way some of the camp sites cram them in I may as well say on an aire.


----------



## ovalball

I have never understood the anti caravan brigade on here.I would suggest that there are quite a few on here,myself included,who started with a caravan before "progressing" on to motorhomes.They never miss the opportunity to have a go at "Tuggers"as they call them.I am so glad the self appointed warden has never shared an aire with me whilst I have been away on holiday.


----------



## SpeedyDux

What Jean-Luc said. In France "Campings" are for camping; Aires are strictly only for parking overnight. 

Once you start to blur the distinction because it suits you, you might as well allow a free-for-all and stop complaining if you find the Aires used as a car park by everyone, or filled with travellers and their rubbish. The notion that it does no harm if you allow exceptions for caravanners under the "live and let live" principle does not stand up to closer examination. I'm not saying that a caravanner who is too tired or unwell to drive further should not be allowed to use an Aire in an emergency. Just using an Aire to save a few Euros is not on. France has so many cheap Municipal campsites the Caravanners can't excuse this behaviour by claiming they can't get a pitch.

We take for granted that there will always be plenty of Aires for our use. If you read the French Camping-Car forums you will see posts complaining that more and more French Communes are closing their Aires, because the locals believe that the Aires have been abused (especially by foreign MHers), or the cost of maintaining an Aire and its Bornes (which falls on the locals) is becoming too high. Maires (Mayors) are elected by the locals in their Commune. I can well see that being anti-Camping-Car is a potential vote-winner in some popular tourist areas. 

The French feel very strongly about the pro- or anti Camping-Car issue, especially if users leave rubbish and dump waste water on their Aires. The French are probably more sensitive about potential damage to their environment than typical Brits. 

I am not saying that we British motorhomers should be officious and tell a caravanner to move on - that is best left to the French authorities. Nevertheless I don't think it is in our best interests to be so tolerant toward caravanners from our own country who deliberately flout the rules in France relating to Aires, because they think they will get away with it. It does give us all a bad name. 

I'll go and find that tin hat. It must be somewhere. :wink: 

SD


----------



## drcotts

I agree with Speedy
I dont think anyone is being anti caravan just because we feel they are flouting the rules. we are lucky enough to have aires especially for us. 

Speedy is right in what he says about aires being flouted but this is dont by all nationalities. I did watch whilst a brit sat outside his van at the calias aire taking up another space whilst other vans arrived and had to park elsewhere and it was only when the aire got almost full did he put the chairs away and let someone park his van there.


----------



## Jean-Luc

SpeedyDux summarises the situation well.
Aires ARE only for parking and camping is not allowed.
If a caravan starts camping eg, putting down the steadies, putting out a wastemaster or such, aquaroll (I know some upper end caravans have onboard freshwater tanks but none have grey water ones), etc. by the same logic we might as well ignore the regs as well and put out table, chairs, awning and start up the barbie.

Then give it a few years and lets see how many Aires are left.

BTW, I am a member of The Caravan Club, if fact I am on the committee of our local Center, I was a caravanner for over twenty years and some of my best friends are caravanners. So I certainly have no bias against caravanners, just a bias in favour of respecting the law


----------



## Grizzly

My goodness; we can become very self-righteous when the mood is on us !

I'm still confused as to why "roulottes" are allowed on some aires but foreign caravanners are apparently not. 

We've seen motorhomers- of all nationalities- quite happily put out chairs, tables, doormats, steps, levelling ramps, waste water containers and so on. I really can't beleive that a caravan, parked properly,with a discreet waste tank underneath, is going to make the slightest difference to the feelings of the locals !

G


----------



## Foghorn-Leghorn

ovalball said:


> I have never understood the anti caravan brigade on here.I would suggest that there are quite a few on here,myself included,who started with a caravan before "progressing" on to motorhomes.They never miss the opportunity to have a go at "Tuggers"as they call them.I am so glad the self appointed warden has never shared an aire with me whilst I have been away on holiday.


Perhaps its because they " The Anti Tugger Brigade " on this forum think that there better class of person in there 50k+ motor home than the poor "Tugger" in his 10k caravan .


----------



## jhelm

Foghorn-Leghorn said:


> ovalball said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never understood the anti caravan brigade on here.I would suggest that there are quite a few on here,myself included,who started with a caravan before "progressing" on to motorhomes.They never miss the opportunity to have a go at "Tuggers"as they call them.I am so glad the self appointed warden has never shared an aire with me whilst I have been away on holiday.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps its because they " The Anti Tugger Brigade " on this forum think that there better class of person in there 50k+ motor home than the poor "Tugger" in his 10k caravan .
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same.

By the way can someone please post the actual law for the country in question.


----------



## camper69

It's not as if the caravanners are packing out the aires every night is it. 

Yes it is usually against the rules but it is an isolated case, even though I have see it happen myself. Who cares get on with your holiday and let the relevant authorities take action if they want to. 

Time we got back to sorting out the subs, slating the campsite usb, or getting out the hanging rope for anyone who crosses our path without being asked.

Derek


----------



## Grizzly

jhelm said:


> By the way can someone please post the actual law for the country in question.


I'm sure there is no question of there being a blanket national "law for the country in question". Who can use an aire, stellplatz or sosta and the regulations under which they do so are under the jurisdiction of the owner or provider of the place guided by any relevant local bylaws.

Some are privately owned, some set up by a municipality and some by a club. It is up to them to set the rules.

G


----------



## Spacerunner

The only time I've seen 'Pierre' upset on an aire is when it is full and he can't get on because there are 'foreigners' taking up good French places.

And if aires are only meant for overnight parking why are some better equipped and maintained than many campsite pitches and a time limit on 72 hours? And how can you spend money locally if the only places to spend are the bar and boulangerie which closed down several years ago. However a few old French guys think its money well spent to enjoy a chat with a Brit who's excruciating French has them in stitches :lol:


----------



## Jean-Luc

Foghorn-Leghorn said:


> ovalball said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never understood the anti caravan brigade on here.I would suggest that there are quite a few on here,myself included,who started with a caravan before "progressing" on to motorhomes.They never miss the opportunity to have a go at "Tuggers"as they call them.I am so glad the self appointed warden has never shared an aire with me whilst I have been away on holiday.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps its because they " The Anti Tugger Brigade " on this forum think that there better class of person in there 50k+ motor home than the poor "Tugger" in his 10k caravan .
Click to expand...

Me, I'm definitely not 'anti tugger', AND btw the 'better class' comment is ill founded, how should a MHr in a 15K MH feel towards a 'tugger' in a 25K caravan or visa versa.

Aires were created for motor caravans and are reserved for them and I make no apologies to those with caravans who are represented by major clubs and a significant industry, let them get those organisations to lobby on their behalf, just like the camping-car clubs and industry did, if they need access to off campsite camping facilities.

Finally, the signs _Interdit aux Voitures_, _Réservé aux Camping-Cars_ found at most Aires appear to be self explanatory.

As should the sign below


----------



## Foghorn-Leghorn

Jean-Luc said:


> Foghorn-Leghorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ovalball said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never understood the anti caravan brigade on here.I would suggest that there are quite a few on here,myself included,who started with a caravan before "progressing" on to motorhomes.They never miss the opportunity to have a go at "Tuggers"as they call them.I am so glad the self appointed warden has never shared an aire with me whilst I have been away on holiday.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps its because they " The Anti Tugger Brigade " on this forum think that there better class of person in there 50k+ motor home than the poor "Tugger" in his 10k caravan .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me, I'm definitely not 'anti tugger', AND btw the 'better class' comment is ill founded, how should a MHr in a 15K MH feel towards a 'tugger' in a 25K caravan or visa versa.
> 
> Aires were created for motor caravans and are reserved for them and I make no apologies to those with caravans who are represented by major clubs and a significant industry, let them get those organisations to lobby on their behalf, just like the camping-car clubs and industry did, if they need access to off campsite camping facilities.
> 
> Finally, the signs _Interdit aux Voitures_, _Réservé aux Camping-Cars_ found at most Aires appear to be self explanatory.
> 
> As should the sign below
Click to expand...

Ill founded ? first of all the comment was not aimed at you but at the minority on this forum who at every opportunity make derogatory comments about Caravanners .


----------



## Rapide561

*Caravan*

I have never seen a sign like that, although I have only been on one aire, as the others were either a dump or we could not fit on (size) etc

Anyway if I buy a caravan and was travelling via St Pourcain, I would go on the aire. The first motorhomer to tell me off better not be seen in a lorry or coach park or an area of a motorway services that is signed as "caravans"

Works both ways as I see it.

Russell


----------



## CurlyBoy

*Re: Caravan*



Rapide561 said:


> I have never seen a sign like that, although I have only been on one aire, as the others were either a dump or we could not fit on (size) etc
> 
> Anyway if I buy a caravan and was travelling via St Pourcain, I would go on the aire. The first motorhomer to tell me off better not be seen in a lorry or coach park or an area of a motorway services that is signed as "caravans"
> 
> Works both ways as I see it.
> 
> Russell


...is that not the point, caravans where allowed, lorries in lorry parking, cars in car parking,coaches in coach parking and MH in Aires, if everybody stuck to the rules no problems? Or is this too simples?

curlyboy


----------



## jhelm

Just a thought or two. In Italy and I suppose the rest of Europe motor caravans, generally have the same rights as cars. That is they can park wherever a car can park. All closed up and staying overnight is allowed anywhere, even if there are people inside. However, since many areas, cities, etc. don't like the idea of us parking wherever and staying the night, the law allows for municipalities to prevent us from parking if suitable parking is provided elsewhere. Thus the birth of the area di sosta. It's not really that they are doing us a favor; it's that they want us off of their streets and generally out of their cities. Caravaners don't generally tend to park in cities and spend the night. Though a brief review on the internet tells me that they too can park wherever they want. But since they don't usually do it not much has been provided for them, putting those who need a place to spend a night on a long drive at a big disadvantage. 

So let's get over this whole thing, we are all trying to do the same thing, save money, see the sights and enjoy life.


----------



## Jented

Hi All.
Come to Portugal,you can"Wild camp" with from a uni-cycle up, wherever you wish,you can stay at Figueira da Foz,(Make sure you bring water,as it is a drive away).this is our nearest big sea side resort,it has a huge parking area for "Every "Person?" LOL and their dog,.....BUT!,be prepared to have an assortment of high tech/old oil drum BBQs at the sides of m/homes,and families,heaven forbid,some with kids!!!all sitting around tables and chairs if this is not enough excitement,powered hang gliders taking off,cruising out over the resort/sea,then depending on the wind,coming in over or down the "Rough?" lines of m/homes/c/vans,beach buggies etc. when we first pulled on,i asked how much,and was told it was,"Free and safe",that was true.
On the plus side,there are good restaurants just across the road from the....site?..
Back to Rules,years ago there was a program about the "Meat merry go round" where beef was transported by road going off of one ferry round a road island and back onto another ferry,racking up subsidies. They traced it to a man in Italy,in a huge wood pannald? office,when confronted by the fact it was "Not right",he shrugged his shoulders and said,"You can pass as many laws as you like,you sometimes don't have to enforce them all".
Mr Rules man,could get employment with the French Paege stations,and haul back m/homers who.."Inadvertantly?" press the intercom button and say their m/home is only Class 2,when it is Class3,or leave an Aire early,before the mobile attendant arrives to collect money due.
Ted aka Long time Sinner (Not any of the last two)


----------



## Telbell

> Probably because the French for caravan is " roulotte".


Can't let you get away with that G!

A "Roulotte" or "Caravane-Roulotte" is used mainly in the context of travelling people who use horse-drawn propulsion-we'd probably call them "Gypsies"

If you do a search on Google.fr on "Caravanes" you'll probably see photos of the sort of thing I towed behind a car for many years..... or the legal definition here from FFCC

LES CARAVANES

véhicules terrestres habitables, destinés à une occupation temporaire ou saisonnière à usage de loisirs.
ils doivent conserver en permanence des moyens de mobilité leur permettant de se déplacer par eux-mêmes ou d'être déplacés par traction,
le code de la route ne leur interdit pas de circuler. :

So tell me how a present day "tugger" does not tow a "caravane" behind :wink:


----------



## Grizzly

Telbell said:


> Probably because the French for caravan is " roulotte".
> 
> 
> 
> Can't let you get away with that G!
> 
> behind :wink:
Click to expand...

It's also used for what we would call a sited mobile home but is also used for the sort of caravan you pull behind a car. You know as well as I do that the French are very economical with their words and make one do when we have several.

Witness " enceinte" I can think of 3 meanings for it all hugely different !

G


----------



## Jented

Hi.
5th Wheeler anyone? It would appear it does not say yes or no to 5th wheelers,so guess they are,"invisable". Thinks,perhaps a car and caravan could be called a "Six Wheeler".As has been said above by a poster,i would only use an Aire as a last resort,and Buchy,being one of them,had many a night there in the m/h,super place,(when i was there LOL)and a huge French police complex just down the road towards the Town? centre.
It is nice to see that there is a comaraderie between c/van-m/homers,all the time we c/vanned,i always thought we all shared the same joys,sort of "All for one,one for all",this thought has had a couple of knocks,since i looked at it through a very few m/momers eyes,the only thing i will change now that we have gone back c/vanning,is i will not "Rush"to assist a m/home with traction trouble,until asked,dispelling the myth that i am.."Showing Off?" in my shiny new 4x4,LOL.
Sometimes if you ask,you don't get,but if you don't ask,you don't want.
Ted.

PS. There are a very few drivers,who will spin the wheels,until the sump hits the floor,this makes a recovery harder,so perhaps when someone"Raced" to help pull them out,this was mistaken as showing off,benefit of the doubt......


----------



## Telbell

A caravan is a Caravane-fact .
A caravane is a caravan-fact
just one word defines both-fact.


----------



## Jented

Hi.
As i have Irish Tinkers in the family tree and i travel,i claim "Grandfather rights",as to be able to call our unit a "Caravane-Roulotte". Better get enroled on a French language course,so i can explain to whoever,that i claim sanctuary at this Aire.
Being serious WHAT!,when stopping at the Aire at Le-Portal,Boulogne,when it was free to stay there,we shared with Gypsy/Fairground units,and never gave it a second thought,we were probably safer,due to them being there.
Ted. aka Th' Wud Tink (For scottish Members)LOL.


----------



## ruthiebabe

The thing is (and all Brits regardless of type of unit need to understand this) is that in France the principle is that if you have a fully self contained unit (ie inboard fresh and waste tanks, loo etc) and you are just parked up (i.e. no chairs, washing, bbq out) you are not, in the eyes of the French, camping. You are parking overnight. This is behind the tolerance generally shown to brief wild camping in a MH and behind the principle of Aires. If you are not self contained or if you put out lots of stuff, you are camping.

Yes, I know that on some Aires especially in quiter areas, people put out chairs and sit on them but the principle is there, and setting up and leaving up lots of outside regalia is not the done thing.

Caravans are not self contained and are therefore camping and the other reason they are frowned upon in French Aires is, I believe, because of the gypsy/romany/traveller community. I'm not passing judgements on that but I have had it explained to me that that is a reason. 

I would not have challenged them myself as I don't like aggro on holiday and I'm not in charge of the Aire, but the in laws were right in the fact that they were probably not allowed to be there. A privately run Aire might be an exception depending on the planning permission etc locally.


----------



## Rapide561

*Pie*

Hello Ruth

Not seen you on line for a bit, but just to let you know that the banoffee pie recipe you gave me years ago is brill - another one tomorrow!

Russell

PS - I use the frying pan lined with tin foil!


----------

