# Help please! Auto Electrician required!! Algarve



## 1302

We are stuck with (I reckon) a defunct immobiliser and the vehicle wont start. I am reluctant to call Breakdown for something which could be fixed relatively quickly on site and dont even mind stumping up the money myself but after two days waiting for two separate guys who never turn up I need to get someone quick.

We are at Cabanas near Tavira...

Thanks in advance
Paul and Alison


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## SNandJA

Is it a Sigma Alarm? S30 or factory fitted?
Some hints and tips here

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-74684-sigma-s30-alarm.html

We have trouble sometimes with our Sigma system where the engine won't start usually associated with sitting on the spare set of keys. I find that if you lock and unlock the doors it clears itself.

Battery in immobiliser/key unit flat? Usually one of the "coin" type various numbers but usually start CR.....

e.g. CR 2016 CR 2032 CR 2025

Steve


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## 1302

No. its a Cobra and Ive been in contact with them on phone and been thru the re-sync procedure = alarm works but immob not functioning and hence will not start. This all follows a complete flattening of the battery due to very overworked fridge in driving last weekend - recharged battery and think a 'spike' in volts then or during booster cable start has done it in.

We have breakdown cover if it somes to it and I can probably claim a new battery but I'd rather fix at site and get on with the trip...


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## ched999uk

You should have a PM.


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## SNandJA

Couple of links in case you can access Internet suggest ignition switch fault could be the issue

Ignition switch link

This one more depressing but also mention ignition switch can be at fault!
This is not good reading

It looks like there are a host of possibilities to cause the problem but perhaps if you have battery powered key or Sigma alarm system the previous post may be worth trying.

Steve


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## 1302

SNandJA said:


> Couple of links in case you can access Internet suggest ignition switch fault could be the issue
> 
> Ignition switch link
> 
> This one more depressing but also mention ignition switch can be at fault!
> This is not good reading
> 
> It looks like there are a host of possibilities to cause the problem but perhaps if you have battery powered key or Sigma alarm system the previous post may be worth trying.
> 
> Steve


We had the faulty key malarky on our 1995 T4 so am concious it might be that.

I think the reference to immobilisers on the other thread is referring to the VW inbuilt (in the key) type and its failure to communicate with the ECU.

I simply wanted a quick check from an auto elec and maybe a quick bypass of the aftermarket junk so we could get on our way but it looks like I may well end up phoning the AA and all the rigamarole that brings

Thanks 
Paul


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## whistlinggypsy

While at a police station in Spain asking for directions I returned to the m/h to find mine wouldn't start on the key, after several calls to Brownhills and then too Cobra a passing young Spanish lady informed me that it was the radio signals from the Police station interfering with my remote key.

She has the same problem everyday with her car as she is parked directly across the road, and just rolls down the road away from the station.

I returned to the police station and after they turned of the radio system it started 1st time and never repeated it.

I was told by Cobra to wrap the fob in tin foil if it happened again.


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## raynipper

Sorry 1302 I know it's no help to you now but whenever I buy ANY vehicle with an immobiliser I ask how to isolate or disconnect it.
They are always causing problems and are usually more trouble than they are worth. imho.

I often wonder if there is some financial kick-back between insurance companies and Thatcham gizmos.

Ray.


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## Wizzo

Have you asked the long termers on site? Any ads in the Portugal News?

Can reception help?


Alternatively, a trip to Tavira on the train and ask in the Madhatters bar down by the river? Lots of expats go in there. There is also a British butchers and a British ladies hairdresser up near the station.

JohnW


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## Gretchibald

Probably too late with this but when this happened to me it took a new battery to get it going again. ie jump start leads don't work.


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## ajb1965

good morning, have you got the type of cobra alarm, e.g cobra 3190,3860.. it may be on the instruction manual or control unit normally under dash area or behind glovebox.. Andy


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## 1302

An update - I have managed to start the motorhome and move it to my friends place - Phew! I shorted the starter with ignition on and it started.

Still a few odd things - the replacement battery now reads (when running)8.5 volts and the electric fan for radiator and reversing beepers arent functioning???

A scottish auto electrician can see us on Saturday afternoon so we are just going to sit tight until then.

Clearly the immobiliser has issues but maybe the ignition key has some fault too 

At least we arent stuck on the campsite!


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## SNandJA

1302 said:


> An update - I have managed to start the motorhome and move it to my friends place - Phew! I shorted the starter with ignition on and it started.
> 
> Still a few odd things - the replacement battery now reads (when running)8.5 volts and the electric fan for radiator and reversing beepers arent functioning???
> 
> A scottish auto electrician can see us on Saturday afternoon so we are just going to sit tight until then.
> 
> Clearly the immobiliser has issues but maybe the ignition key has some fault too
> 
> At least we arent stuck on the campsite!


Would make sense to check battery connections are clean and sound and especially that the earth is clean and hasn't been disturbed perhaps?

Who put the replacement battery in? Correct polarity?


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## 1302

ajb1965 said:


> good morning, have you got the type of cobra alarm, e.g cobra 3190,3860.. it may be on the instruction manual or control unit normally under dash area or behind glovebox.. Andy


It is a cobra 7925 with a separate immobiliser which I have a photo of but have looked all over for with no success...

There is a pen stick immob over-ride which is having no effect ...

I WILL NEVER HAVE AN AFTERMARKET IMMOBILISER AGAIN!! :roll:


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## ched999uk

Sounds like your alternator may be duff. If the diode pack rectifiers fail they can produce high voltages and not charge battery!!!! I would get the electrician to check the alternator as that might have fried things!!!! 

Good Luck.


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## peribro

I have no helpful suggestions to make but am interested why you don't want to call out your breakdown service - the AA I think you posted. Isn't that what you pay your membership fee for? I'm not trying to be provocative but am genuinely interested. In the unfortunate event that I ever breakdown and can't fix it (which is likely) then I would call out my breakdown service.


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## dolcefarniente

39 years a lecky here. Check when battery was replaced all the pick up connections went back on. That is all the factory ones plus any aftermarket stuff that picks up at the battery. Take column covers off and you'll probably find the cut in T50 (key to starter cable) and be able to return it to standard. If battery was at 8.5v it wouldn't start. Your meter is flat or duff. Should be >12v and then 14.2 to 14.8v running with all consumers off. Check no positive pick ups have corroded off at the starter. Hope it helps.


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## aldra

1302

I have no idea, but I'm hoping you get it sorted soon and can relax and enjoy your holiday

Aldra


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## 1302

peribro said:


> I have no helpful suggestions to make but am interested why you don't want to call out your breakdown service - the AA I think you posted. Isn't that what you pay your membership fee for? I'm not trying to be provocative but am genuinely interested. In the unfortunate event that I ever breakdown and can't fix it (which is likely) then I would call out my breakdown service.


Certainly:
Friday - arrived at site with flat battery after a jump start at the supermarket and got on pitch. Called at friends house 300 m away and borrowed trickle charger to charge flat battery as I thought it was a simple fault - probably the fridge running off the car batt in 44 degrees heat.

saturday - van starts OK so turn off and wait until Sunday to move off site to go to friends.

Sunday - van wont even turn the engone - think immob problem so reckon a auto elec might be the best option to look at and bypass

Mpnday - no show.

Tuesday - no show - and now wonder why we didnt ring a breakdown service that will almost certainly take our motorhome to a dealer - stick us in a hotel - until an auto elctrician turns up.

Realistically fixing a small fault is better than involving the AA in a 'we cant fix it anyway' scenario.

I hope that explains!


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## 1302

dolcefarniente said:


> 39 years a lecky here. Check when battery was replaced all the pick up connections went back on. That is all the factory ones plus any aftermarket stuff that picks up at the battery. Take column covers off and you'll probably find the cut in T50 (key to starter cable) and be able to return it to standard. If battery was at 8.5v it wouldn't start. Your meter is flat or duff. Should be >12v and then 14.2 to 14.8v running with all consumers off. Check no positive pick ups have corroded off at the starter. Hope it helps.


The battery on at point of start was a borrowed one 'known to work OK' and it went on at 12.7v but read 8,5 v after I started the van. I reckon our old battery which I still have is OK and will piut that back on tomorrow. I started the van with the batterys connected by jump leads.



Thanks


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## 1302

aldra said:


> 1302
> 
> I have no idea, but I'm hoping you get it sorted soon and can relax and enjoy your holiday
> 
> Aldra


We are relaxing now - the (UK) auto elctrician is lloking at tit on Saturday - I can live with that as he has told us the truth about being busy - the lazy bastard who told us he was too busy and then was spotted on the beach later is the cause of my earlier frustration 

No wonder Portugal has never really entered into financially enhanced business opportunities  Lazy sods.


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## dolcefarniente

Probably charging fault. Previous posts didn't explain the history of the fault at supermarket etc. Don't know how tradesmen make a living down there.We have to run around like headless chickens all day.Not sure who's got it right, them or us. :?


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## dolcefarniente

p.s. If not a charging fault get your fella to check the glow plugs aren't stuck on. The warning light comes on and goes off regardless. I have had them stuck on and they clobber the battery in no time and the alternator can't keep up with the current draw. Be down there shortly. Used any good non touristy inland sites ?


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## 1302

Looking like a charging fault as only reading 12.05 volts when running having just been charged up on trickle.

Runs ok when started via short circuit so have arranged to take to Camperserve about 20 k away to their auto electrician - a scottish guy who is going to look at it on Saturday so it looks like we are getting somewhere with it.

My friend here in Cabanas saked the auto elect guy to come again today - so sighting despite him saying "yes I will come over" so he not only lazy and idle - he's a liar too :lol:


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## 1302

PS new glow plugs fitted 3000 miles ago and been fine so far.

To re-iterate - there's nothing at the key. Hence why I short the starter cable to get it going.

Barry says if anything it sounds like a rectifier in the alternator (as well as an immobiliser fault) we shall see!


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## 1302

The conclusion...

All fixed! 

Immobiliser faulty and probably due to flattening of battery and subsequent jump start - oh well. Barry cut the immob out of the equation and motorhome started first time even after a 30 mile drive to his place on a battery that wasnt being charged (a heart in the mouth drive that was this morning)

ALternator had faulty diode and was removed to be taken to Portugeuse alternator man who was closed. Barry bought a diode kit from motor factors and refurbed it himself and refitted so two and a half hours later we were back on our way. 

I cannot speak highly enough of CamperServ (Tommy) and Barry the auto electrician - we are back on our spot in the olive grove a damn sight more realxed than we have been all week.

Total cost was 175 Euros so not unreasonable - I was gratefull enough to sponsor Barrys Saturday night cider imbibement to the tune of 25 Euros as a sign of my gratitude 

Thank you all those who offered bits of info here whilst we were holed up - its what sites like this and 'the scene' is and should be all about. 

Now - Im back to the Kindle thread as thats faulty now :lol: :lol: but that pales into insignificance compared to your mobile home not starting!!


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## aldra

1302

Result :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Brilliant

What's wrong with the kindle?

Close to my heart at the moment

bought three

mine failed replaced free at 13months

Alberts now failed at 15 months

Grandaughters still OK

Still so pleased the van is sorted

Aldra


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## 1302

aldra said:


> Still so pleased the van is sorted
> 
> Aldra


No more so than us!! 

We are lacking a speedo and the odometer has stopped but I am guessing thats a fuse - I didnt dare ask him to look further after he pulled out the stops this morning 

There is nothing worse - for me anyway - than a stricken vehicle


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## ched999uk

Glad you got it sorted. I did guess early on it might be the alternator diode pack . I hope you are correct with the speedo fuse. My guess is that the alternator has fried the speedo, odometer and immobiliser!!!
Hope I am wrong as a new speedo will not be cheap.


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## 1302

ched999uk said:


> Hope I am wrong as a new speedo will not be cheap.


Do you do bar-mitzfa's and funerals too  :lol:

Instrumet lights not funvtioning either but the rev counter works (as does the fuel/tempguage ) so I am flumoxed 

Back ddor sttep light fused earlier too - its not my week!!


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## dolcefarniente

Just a suggestion. Don't bite my head off for asking. Are you sure you didn't just have alternator failure and the jump start was reversed by mistake. You have too many different unrelated defects which would easily be caused by reversed polarity even only for a couple of seconds. Good luck with it.


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## 1302

dolcefarniente said:


> Just a suggestion. Don't bite my head off for asking. Are you sure you didn't just have alternator failure and the jump start was reversed by mistake. You have too many different unrelated defects which would easily be caused by reversed polarity even only for a couple of seconds. Good luck with it.


100% positive (no pun intended - but thanks for the opportunity to use it)

I'm a measure twice, cut once kind of person - we are reckoning that the fridge (running in 44 degree heat whilst driving) put a strain on the alternator, then flattened the battery (which was so flat that turning on the fan in the cab to '1' caused the engine to cut out. Subsequent jump starting and/or trickle charging did the immobiliser in - the UK auto electricain used to fit Cobra alarms and said they werent up to much and immob's when they fail land you in the sh*t. A very testing (no pun intended again) week for us - still in nearly5 months its our first hitch.


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## ched999uk

Just checked Dometics site and the biggest new fridge freezer only pulls 170 watts from 12v so that's only 14 amps. I would expect your alternator to be capable of giving out 100amps minimum!!!
So I would be very surprised if it were an overworking fridge that caused the alternator to fail.

So the more I think about it the more I think the alternator diode pack (which includes the voltage regulator) failed and allowed the voltage to increase to way above 12v. Alternators are 3 phase and use diodes and a voltage regulator to control the output. An alternator at full speed is capable of generating 90V ac, so a working diode and regulator are a must. The voltage could be about 12v but with huge spikes caused by the failing diode/regulator pack. Over voltage would not charge the battery, boil the battery, blow electronic components, blow bulbs if they were on etc.

Turning the fan on caused additional current to be pulled and the battery couldn't cope as it was not being fed 12v to charge properly.

I really hope to be wrong and not to put a downer on your trip. But by investigating the faults you have with an overvolting alternator in mind might mean less costs in fault finding.


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## BrianJP

May be a wild goose chase but did you try( power cycling ) ie; disconnecting Engine battery for up to maybe 1 hour to reset all electronic modules. Could just be glitch being held by battery voltage.


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## 1302

BrianJP said:


> May be a wild goose chase but did you try( power cycling ) ie; disconnecting Engine battery for up to maybe 1 hour to reset all electronic modules. Could just be glitch being held by battery voltage.


No I didn't but cannot see how having no battery fitted for an hour would fix it.

Its repaired now - I think the heat and constant running of the fridge contributed to make a weak alternator finally pack up and hence the need for a new diode and regulator. The peaks refered to earlier would certaily see off the immob - the main cause of our 'non starting'

I think I did a fairly good job of describing the faults to the auto elec beforehand allowing him to quickly get to the bottom of it. Suggestions of failed ECU's , faulty starters, bad earths, and failed ignition keys were all eliminated along the way.

I have watched how an alternator is repaired now and TBH if I was ever stranded again I would have a go myself before ringing any lazy, lying Portugeuse auto electrician


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## BrianJP

Hi

glad you got it sorted out .It obviously was the alternator diode pack and regulator at fault, however you did not indicate what if any components of the alarm/imobiliser were affected and replaced. This info would be useful for other members to note.

To answer your question regarding power cycling however.
Integrated circuits "Chips" are becoming ever more complex. These are at the heart of almost everything in our daily liives today from domestic appliances to motor vehicles etc ,etc.
The probem is though that occasionally they can "screw up" and appear at fault. Often though an initial procedure to localise a possible fault is to power cycle the affected unit. Often this will cure the problem as it resets all the stored programming to the original defaults. A simple example of this is when your PC locks up and will not respond to anything or very slowly. By restarting it will often work normally.

In the case of motor vehicles ,Power cycling will have the same effect ,however as ECU's for example store previous settings/values for some time batteries have to be disconnected for a time eg 1 hour to allow factory defaults to be restored.
In the case of alarms, particularly CAT1 types, although they have back up batteries, probelms can often be solved by power cycling.
One of my cars for example periodically has a problem where the alarm fails to arm correctly.After several atttempts by the dealer to rectifiy this including replacing most of the electronics, I found that just disconnecting the battery for a few minutes solved the problem for many months or longer
.


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## 1302

BrianJP said:


> Hi
> 
> glad you got it sorted out .It obviously was the alternator diode pack and regulator at fault, however you did not indicate what if any components of the alarm/imobiliser were affected and replaced. This info would be useful for other members to note.
> 
> .


It WAS obviously the alternator diode and regulator because thats what we changed and what I said in an earlier post...

I 'indicated' that the immobiliser was faulty several times - and thats what the auto electrician bypassed - I said that a few times too  Hopefully that WAS usefull to other members 

I would suggest to anyone that ANY aftermarker alarm/immobiliser fitted to any vehicle be removed and put in the bin. In thirty years of motoring and a close association with the motor trade I havent encountered a single one worth a toss. My expensive sports car at home has a manufacturers immob fitted - thats a proper solution - it also has a Tracker - far better than any alarm (which people dont take any notice of either)

I still cannot see any logic in a disconnected battery 'sorting' out failed electronics.


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## ched999uk

1302 said:


> I would suggest to anyone that ANY aftermarker alarm/immobiliser fitted to any vehicle be removed and put in the bin. In thirty years of motoring and a close association with the motor trade I havent encountered a single one worth a toss. My expensive sports car at home has a manufacturers immob fitted - thats a proper solution - it also has a Tracker - far better than any alarm (which people dont take any notice of either)


I have yet to see an immobiliser 'professionally' installed that cannot be bypassed within 30 mins. Manufacturer installed ones are so much better. If you check out Thatchams page on immobilisers re Cat2 immobilisers if your vehicle has a key coded ecu then they only need to cut 1 circuit!!!!!!!! So exactly as 1302 did put key in and then short starter motor will bypass the immobiliser!!! 
Trackers, even simple ones that phone you if moved are much better that any alarm or third party immobiliser. Trackers that are properly monitored are probably the best solution.

Hope 1302 gets the speedo sorted cheaply.

Good Luck and thanks for update!


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## BrianJP

1302 said:


> BrianJP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> glad you got it sorted out .It obviously was the alternator diode pack and regulator at fault, however you did not indicate what if any components of the alarm/imobiliser were affected and replaced. This info would be useful for other members to note.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> It WAS obviously the alternator diode and regulator because thats what we changed and what I said in an earlier post...
> 
> I 'indicated' that the immobiliser was faulty several times - and thats what the auto electrician bypassed - I said that a few times too  Hopefully that WAS usefull to other members
> 
> I would suggest to anyone that ANY aftermarker alarm/immobiliser fitted to any vehicle be removed and put in the bin. In thirty years of motoring and a close association with the motor trade I havent encountered a single one worth a toss. My expensive sports car at home has a manufacturers immob fitted - thats a proper solution - it also has a Tracker - far better than any alarm (which people dont take any notice of either)
> 
> I still cannot see any logic in a disconnected battery 'sorting' out failed electronics.
Click to expand...

I accept that you are little sensitive at the moment perhaps because of your experiences far from home. I apologise profusely to you as I had obviously missed the fact in your earlier posts that your electrician had bypassed the imobiliser.Thats all I wanted to know.
Re power cycling ( sorry disconnecting the battery!) as a Telecoms and electronics engineer of over 40 years experience I can assure that this is an accepted first stage testing procedure for any circuit containg a microprocessor that "appears" to be malfunctioning.
Also the vehicle that I have always had problems with has a factory fitted Cat1 alarm similar to yours .


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## 1302

BrianJP said:


> I accept that you are little sensitive at the moment perhaps because of your experiences far from home. .


I'm not Brian - sensitive aint me 

I apologise if I sounded 'blunt' and whilst any help offered on the internet is a very good thing, I got fed up along the way of misguided and wrong info being fed back. I do not wish EVER to sound ungrateful for anyones comments however some replies from very well meaning people, are simply poor advice - I may get 'flamed' for that comment but then so be it. I posted here ans 'somewhere else' and got a number of replies - I was asked at one point if I had tried bump starting the motorhome after referring in a couple of earlier posts to it being automatic! Someone suggested that I sned the vehicle to a VW dealership as the ECU would need to be replaced/re-programmed :roll:

Luckily like you I have the sense to sift through the poor advice and got it sorted. I'll consider your advice about the re-cycling in future - worth a shot anyway 

Thank you all again


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