# Lake Garda



## hilldweller

We've been a fan of Maggiore for many years, delightful place.

But we've just dipped our toes into Lake Garda.

Stayed here:
http://www.campingbutterfly.eu/

If the guy on here ( Russell ? ) who pointed this out had been there we'd have bought him a bottle of wine. Lovely site in a perfect position for walking to town and catching the boat. Mainly statics, Eurocamp etc. Nice compact site with all you need for a rest.

But the bonus, the boats. We paid €21 for a return ticket from Peschiera right to the top of the lake on a paddle steamer, Italia, ( though steam had been replaced by diesel/electric ). The boat stops at all towns en route. Unlike Maggiore with it's huge hotels, Garda towns were typical unspoiled, soft coloured, stylish, Italian. A delight to photograph and firmly pencilled in "We Will Return". €21 each for a cruise 10:00 to 20:00, can't grumble about that.

Only the weather spoiled us this year otherwise we world have gone back after Venice.


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## SpeedyDux

Brian - the Italia is a magical old boat. 

SD


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## geraldandannie

Hi Brian

Yes, Garda is really lovely, and the availability of lake boats to get around is fantastic.

We spent 10 days at :: Camping Eden :: last year, which is opposite Salo, on the Western side of the lake, and we had a great time. This year, we're spending around 15 days there. The only downside for us is the cost (€38  ) per night, in the periods we can go (summer holidays).

Only 8-and-a-bit weeks until we go 

Gerald


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## Rapide561

*Camping Butterfly*

Hello

Glad you liked Camping Butterfly. So easy to get to the trains, buses and boats etc.

I am looking forward to a return.

Russell


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## SpeedyDux

For Russell and all you other Lake Garda fans, here is a page of webcams:

http://www.checkcams.com/italy/lakegarda

SD


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## Rapide561

*Garda webcams*

I often look at the webcam at Desenzano. It shows the small harbour - one of my favourite places to sit and do nothing except drink cappucino.

Russell


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## hilldweller

*Re: Camping Butterfly*



Rapide561 said:


> I am looking forward to a return.
> Russell


I hope you are in luck, we got the last pitch. I was very surprised for early May.

We even got it at €14 a night on the ACSI card !!

We had planned on trying for a site in Malchesini, to go up that cable car but with no sign of the weather improving we went to Chamonix, €42 through Mont Blanc and the weather was just as bad.

We'll be back !


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## Rapide561

*Garda*

Hi

Not due back til September, but always book in advance.

R


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## Dizziblonde

Hi Garda fans, we are thinking of visiting on the 10th August, for a week. Sadly due to work commitments we can not book in advance. 

What are our chances of being able to book in two weeks time.

Do the lake boats allow dogs.

Hoping to visit Venice, will we be able to take the dog on public transport.

We have a pet passport but have only visited France. We are hoping to take a varied route as described by Rapide561 travelling through a number of countries. What would be the formalities at the border. Is it the same as entering France but just more times. She's up to date on all her requirements to travel within Europe.

Loads of questions but would rather talk face to face with someone who has been. We will be at the Stratford show, is there anyone who is camping with MHF who we can open a bottle of vino with and have a good natter about all that is, Lake Garda.

Sorry to go on.

Dai+Karina........


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## Rapide561

*Garda*

Hello

Don't worry about the borders - I have never been stopped other than the Swiss borders. If you are stopped - and it is unlikely - it will be a formality.

I would recommend you book in advance for August, but if you can't, some parts of the lake are quiter than others- more so if you arrive on a Sunday or Monday, rather than Friday.

The boats do allow dogs, although they ask that the dog is muzzled. I asked this question last year when Oscar was with me.

If you need anything else, ask away on this thread - as it's title is appropariate.

Russell

Edit - I took Oscar on a train and you can see him here sat on a seat in First Class. There was not a muzzle requirement at the time, but, I am not certain nowadays.

Here is a link for the train company.

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/


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## TR5

We are considering a trip to Lake Garda around late Sept / early Oct., an area we have not ventured to before.

Any guidelines would be most helpful, including suggested routes from the tunnel, recommended camp sites at Lake Garda, and stopping places en-route.

Is there anyone from MHF in the area at the same time?

Thanks


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## cronkle

TR5 said:


> We are considering a trip to Lake Garda around late Sept / early Oct., an area we have not ventured to before.
> 
> Any guidelines would be most helpful, including suggested routes from the tunnel, recommended camp sites at Lake Garda, and stopping places en-route.
> 
> Is there anyone from MHF in the area at the same time?
> 
> Thanks


The route we took in june was

THe tunnel, Lille, Charloi, Namur, Luxenbourg, Metz, Strasbourg (intoGermany), Basle, Luzern, Milan and then pick up the motorway.

We did two stops-one in Bertrix in Belguim (we had left the tunnel at lunch time) and the other just outside Luzern by the lake.

EDIT forgot to say we stayed at Camping Cisano near Lasize. Very pleasant.


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## geraldandannie

TR5 said:


> Is there anyone from MHF in the area at the same time?


We're there now, but we will left by then  

On our trip down, we stopped at a Belgian motorway service area, Metz camping municipale (but we'll use the lovely aire directly outside the campsite gates next time :roll: ) and Camping Sursee in Switzerland. Nice, easy stops, and not too much driving each day.

We used "Russell's Toll-Free Route" (all trademarks recognised :wink: ) as far as Metz, then used toll motorways from then on - something like €20 in France, €30 Swiss motorway vignette, and not many Euros on Italian motorways.

We're at Camping Eden (see link in post above) - expensive, but lovely. We used it because we have 2 lots of friends here.

For shopping, we used a big Auchan at Brescia - just off the motorway, as you head up towards Lake Garda, signposted from the main road.

Sunday is a good day to get round Milan, as there are fewer trucks on the road, and probably fewer holdups.

It's a brilliant place - you'll love it. The northern end is more hilly and more scenic.

Here's a link to our 2007 TravelBlog: :: CLICK :: The 2008 version will be uploaded soon 

Gerald


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## Grizzly

I'm sure there is no problem this year but, last year when we were there, it had been rather drier and the lake level had dropped so that the boat could not get in to all the scheduled stops around the lake.

If you're going on a round trip this is probably not important but, if you are planning stops for sight seeing, then it is wise to check.

_
Lake Garda
The fleet of Lake Garda consists of 20 boats with bars, restaurants and sun decks. The ferry service consists of two motorships, which can transport up to 35 motor vehicles and 300 passengers, traveling from Maderno to Torre del Benaco and vice-versa. Between Desenzano and Peschiera there are swift catamarans which link up these two towns and many places in between. Afternoon and night-time summer cruises leave every day of the week on the following routes: Peschiera-Garda, Salò-Gargnano, Riva-Malcesine, Desenzano-Manerba. There are bars, restaurants and orchestras on board.
For information: 
Gestione Navigazione Laghi Maggiore Garda Como
Via Ludovico Ariosto, 21 20145 MILANO
Tel.(039) 02 4676101 - Fax (039) 02 46761059
www.navigazionelaghi.it
_

G


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## Tobysmumndad

TR5: Just a word of caution about late September/early October! There is a German holiday - The Day of German Unity - on October 3rd. They come over the Brennero in their tens of thousands, and the campsites are packed.

We fell foul of this three years ago, when it seemed a good idea to take in the Bardolino Wine Festival on our way home. Being so late on in the season, we didn't book, of course, and were aghast to arrive at Camping du Parc in Lazise to see the queues. We got virtually the last pitch. The camp facilities and the restaurants in the town were struggling to cope.

Can somebody advise if they've finally stopped digging up the middle of Basel, or is it still a shambles?


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## eddied

*Basel*

 Ciao tutti,if you come into Switzerland/Basel from Germany (Weil am Rhein) all road works are now clear.
If you come into Basel from France (St.Louis) all the tunnels are now open all the way through, and you don't even see Basel town centre.
saluti,
eddied


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## Senator

Hello

We have been to Garda twice now. First time (2004) in our Autotrail Apache 700 and the second time (2006) towing our caravan (now updated to another MH!).
The first time went via France and the Mont Blanc tunnel and found the various tolls to be very expensive (seem to remember the tunnel being £35 alone!) and returned through Switzerland which was much cheaper despite having to buy a vinagrette (is that how you spell it?) at 50 euros. After that no tolls!

The second time went the Swiss route each way so relatively cheap. We entered/left Switzerland at Basel. Also found a good stop over campsite just inside France that allowed us to complete the Swiss side and down to Garda in a day. (The Seelisberg and Gotthard tunnels are both free)

Both times we stayed at Camping Spaggia D'Oro in Lazise, http://www.campingspiaggiadoro.com/dan/contatti.asp 
It's a great site with superb pool and beach. We went peak time and didn't book either time. From memory it was around 45 euros per night.

Mark.


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## TR5

Thanks to all those who have replied so far, keep them coming!

Has anyone tried going across Belguim, through Germany down the Rhine, and into Austria via the Black Forest, before going on to Italy. Thought this might avoid most, if not all tolls.
I travelled this route as far as Innsbruck many years ago, but perhaps they are now toll roads.

Michael


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## Rapide561

*Basle*

Hi

Engineering is still on going at Basle/Bale but not like it was a few years back. Very easy now for transit.

Russell


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## Rapide561

*Garda*

Hi

If your van is in excess of 3,500 kg you will require a Go-Box in Austria for the toll system - very expensive.

Stick with the toll free routes as suggested - or see the Italy section of the continental touring forum pages.

Russell


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## geraldandannie

*Re: Basle*



Rapide561 said:


> Engineering is still on going at Basle/Bale but not like it was a few years back. Very easy now for transit.


We passed through last week, and although there are still roadworks around, the route to the south is clear.

If you're not sure of the route, and you're using satnav, remember they don't work in tunnels :roll: Some tunnels have junctions in the middle of them, so before you enter, quickly check the screen to make sure you don't need to turn off. If you're passing through, the main road is well signposted.



Grizzly said:


> I'm sure there is no problem this year but, last year when we were there, it had been rather drier and the lake level had dropped so that the boat could not get in to all the scheduled stops around the lake.


According to our friends, who have a static caravan here, the lake level is at least a metre higher than last year, so everything should be OK.

Gerald


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## hilldweller

Senator said:


> The first time went via France and the Mont Blanc tunnel and found the various tolls to be very expensive Mark.


Made our eyes water. Seemed like a good idea at the time "Let's go to Chamonix again".

But the little campsite in the middle of the town is a gem.


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## Briarose

> We have a pet passport but have only visited France. We are hoping to take a varied route as described by Rapide561 travelling through a number of countries. What would be the formalities at the border. Is it the same as entering France but just more times. She's up to date on all her requirements to travel within Europe.


Dizziblonde
Hi what formality did you have ref your dog on entering France ? we had nothing going and nothing on the way down to Portugal etc only on the way back at pet passport Calais, I know my best mate travelled down to Italy last year with her little dog and again no checks etc travelling down or visiting Sicily.


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## TR5

We have now booked our tunnel crossing (thanks to Tesco vouchers) for our trip to Lake Garda, leaving the UK very early on Thurs 18h Sept. and returning on sat 4th Oct.

A few more questions:- 

Where do I find "Russell's routes"?

How do you obtain a swiss vignette and does this cover all tolls?

Is it feasable to go through Switzerland without using tolls, or would this take far too long?

We aim to try and reach at least Metz for the first stopover, and somewhere south of Basle for the second night, the third day reaching somewhere on the southern end of the lake - we hav not decided which campsite as yet, but will take details of several, and aim for somewhere between Sirmione and Lazise.

Thanks guys, not too long now!!!


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## Senator

Hi Michael

I can maybe help with a couple of your latest questions. So far as the Vinagrette is concerned we just drove into Switzerland at Basal and got stopped at the border where we purchased the tax disc. Once you have this there are no more tolls until you get to Milan (tunnels are free). Our disc lasted a year so it was a one off purchase.

For me, I just wanted to get to Garda ASAP, so drove from a campsite the French side of Basal all the way to Lazize in one hit. Obviously to do this I stuck to the motorways, so not sure how feasable it would be to use the Swiss 'A' roads. Without looking at a map there are some big hills (mountains) to cross hence the tunnels, and this might be difficult to do without venturing onto the motorways whereupon you would presumably need the Vinagrette anyway. Just a thought?

Have a good one!

Mark


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## hilldweller

TR5 said:


> How do you obtain a swiss vignette and does this cover all tolls?
> 
> Is it feasable to go through Switzerland without using tolls, or would this take far too long?
> 
> We aim to try and reach at least Metz for the first stopover, and
> 
> Thanks guys, not too long now!!!


We've gone through Switzerland by bike without using the motorways but it depends on the passes being open. Last time the pass was closed (in May) but we got away with going on the motorway FOC.

http://www.switzerlandtravelcentre.co.uk/vignette.html?gclid=CO_1uOe9q5UCFQWR1QodrnYGkA

We stopped Savern, Lucern, Milan without pushing it.

Camping Butterfly Pecheria del Garda can't be faulted for a small site right on the lake and they even did us the €14 ASCI deal.

We wanted to try and find the camping in the middle of Malcesini which claims to be the most beautiful town on Garda but gave up due to weather.


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## TR5

Thanks for your replies, Senator & Hilldweller.

I have found Russell's directs, and also found vignette's for sale on ebay - presumably purchased and not used for whatever reason, so I'm bidding for one. If not, i'll purchase one before leaving.

Michael


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## hilldweller

TR5 said:


> found vignette's for sale on ebay - presumably purchased and not used for whatever reason


Or forgeries ?????

It's a terrible system, they run Jan-Jan so you are screwed before it even arrives.


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## geraldandannie

TR5 said:


> I'm bidding for one. If not, i'll purchase one before leaving.


Hi Michael

You can also buy an official one :: here :: (£21) in case you lose the auction (or worry about it being genuine).

Gerald


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## Rapide561

*Garda*

Hi

Not sure where you live in the country, but my sort of plan is....

Day 1 - Leeds to Calais - 275 miles.

Day 2 - after sleeping on Calais dockside head for Obernai - 375 miles.

Day 3 - Obernai - Garda - 350 miles.

The Swiss toll thing - I personally would not buy on Ebay. Pay cash at the border - 40 SFR or 30 Euro.

Avoiding tolls in Switzerland can be done, but in my mind, not worth the hassle. The mountain passes - such as the Gotthard pass may be closed as early as October depending upon weather, so you end up on the A2 motorway and in the tunnel anyway.

All my routes are in the "Italy touring" section of the forum.

Please provide fuel proce info for the route you take.

Also, in Switzerland, fuel is cheaper than Italy. Leave the A2 motorway at "Campioni D'Italia" and then follow the non motorway route to Chiasso. There are fuel stations a plenty on the roadside. Fuel was about 10p per litre cheaper along that road than on the motorway, and cheaper than Italy in anycase. It is about 100 miles from the petrol stations in that area to Lake Garda south.

Russell

Feeling home sick now....


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## adbe

don't forget that the only reason they stop you on the Swiss border is to check your vignette, and they all have _scary_ guns!
I noticed a brisk trade in secondhand vignettes amongst the Brits in camping Belchenblick when we were there.Also noticed some of the same activity at the Swiss/Italian border.
Such a nuisance the 'Go box', It has cut us off from the Europabruck route
We once (unintentionally) got through Switzerland (from French Jura) and into st Gottherd tunnel without being asked to buy a vignette. The only motorway was that bit from Lac Leman to the tunnels and I think that bit was/is toll free. We always holiday in March April and or October and the route in from France was fine @ that time.
If only I was going to Garda.........


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## TR5

Hi Russell

I live in west berkshire, and intend going to Folkstone area the night before, stopping in a CL or similar.... crossing via the tunnel at 07:50 (or earlier).
I intend two stops en-route, one near or just south of Metz, the second it Switzerland somewhere, getting to site in the afternoon of the third day.


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