# No more Satnav.



## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Mrs bigtree handed in her notice yesterday so I will be going back to good old Lilnav,she might be a wee bit rusty at it but you can't beat a good map and map reader. :lol: Had to rely on satnav for the last 2 years as I was mainly touring solo,so it will be great to get 2nd or 3rd opinion about what route to take.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Recipe for a battle IMO.
Since using a satnav from the very earliest TomTom Go, trips have been far more peaceable.
We can still have our moments though!


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

Prefer satnav but keep a map in the car for those times when you need a broader/wider view of a route.

Rita was pretty good at sorting us out en-route, but she also prefers satnav as it gives her time to look at the scenery.

Peter


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## Rankins (May 1, 2005)

bigtree said:


> Mrs bigtree handed in her notice yesterday


Woohoo, give her our congratulations.



bigtree said:


> so it will be great to get 2nd or 3rd opinion about what route to take.


Just an opinion then, not going to follow 'instructions"?


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

I have memories of at least 2 maps being unceremoniously tossed out of the passenger window like toys from a pram :lol:


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

tonyt said:


> I have memories of at least 2 maps being unceremoniously tossed out of the passenger window like toys from a pram :lol:


More likely the satnav would be the one to be tossed out of the window in our household. :roll:


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## tugboat (Sep 14, 2013)

2 female voices yattering at the same time in a MH, sounds like hell to me! :roll:


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

"Debates" with my wife over missed turns became a thing of the past when TomTom took the helm.
My wife still like to have a map on her lap to keep ourselves on the logical straight and narrow.
With a history of folding maps back on themselves and the French pages coming loose, many of our friends and family have been intrigued to receive gifts wrapped in pages from the map book.

Twice over the years my TomTom has failed and we have not had a clue where we were  


Alan


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

I use a good map, and the sat nav for the last couple of miles.  
A couple of weeks ago, I was up in the lake district and without a map.
I really missed it, for me it is much better than the sat nav for viewing prior to driving!
I get a much better idea of the geography of surrounding areas and a better instinct about direction!


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

not out the window thrown at my head with some choice wording, but since the satnav most of those days are gone though like others map on the knee just so she can say i would have got off there as we pass a junction,
must admit i like to study a map to get an overall route then preload waypoints as destinations so we can click on recent destinations to get the route we want,


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## catzontour (Mar 28, 2007)

When we go 'across the water' we much prefer just using a map as we rarely have a destination in mind so the satnav wouldn't be much use....

However, the satnav comes into its own if we end up in a city in error - the instructions to change lane 500 metres before a major junction are invaluable! Interestingly, our satnav can't pronounce French street names very well and becomes incomprehensible in cities. We have switched her into French and left her that way which is great for brushing up on French instructions when driving in this country


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Evening all,


we use acompass as well as a map.



norm


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## 113016 (Jun 5, 2008)

goldi said:


> Evening all,
> 
> we use acompass as well as a map.
> 
> norm


I use a compass, when I park up, so that I know exactly where the sunny side will be 8)


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

We only drive where the sun shines so do not need a compass :wink:

Alan


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

After it being recommended on here got the Osmand+ for my nexus tablet jan is being converted against her will to this instead of a paper map the real position cursor is simply great & being able to zoom in and out on the map , tried to download it onto another tablet I have but it requires too much space as a download with all the individual maps.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

catzontour said:


> our satnav can't pronounce French street names very well and becomes incomprehensible in cities.


Our most amusing one (_so far_ :roll: ) was being told to follow "Rudy Leg Lice".

It almost caused an accident - and Mrs Zeb still giggles whenever we see a similar street name.

Dave


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

can you translate as I cannot manage to see what it is.  

cabby


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## Easyriders (May 16, 2011)

Like Grath, we generally only use the satnav for the last bit of a journey, when looking for an unfamiliar camp site, for example.

I always follow the map as we go along, as John suffers from "sign blindness", and if in doubt, always turns left!

We have tried using the satnav more often so that I can take a break as navigator, but it leads to many disputes between me and "Jane".

Needless to say, I am always proved right!

Linda


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

bigtree said:


> Mrs bigtree handed in her notice yesterday so I will be going back to good old Lilnav,she might be a wee bit rusty at it but you can't beat a good map and map reader. :lol: Had to rely on satnav for the last 2 years as I was mainly touring solo,so it will be great to get 2nd or 3rd opinion about what route to take.


Why should it be satnav OR map reading when common sense tells you it should be satnav AND map reading?


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

bigtree said:


> Mrs bigtree handed in her notice yesterday so I will be going back to good old Lilnav,she might be a wee bit rusty at it but you can't beat a good map and map reader. :lol: Had to rely on satnav for the last 2 years as I was mainly touring solo,so it will be great to get 2nd or 3rd opinion about what route to take.


How do you define "good map".

1. Do you mean a high quality, high resolution map.? (may be several years since the detail was updated)

or

2. A map that is new and up to date?

or

3. both high quality and upto date. (hard to find and expensive to renew every year or so).

Both maps and satnavs have their faults and weaknesses so why not use both?


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

In the UK, I write directions on a piece of paper and refer to that for directions. In the unlikely event of going wrong, I will ask my missus to get out the map. She's very good at finding the right way again.

She has refused to navigate if we ever went abroad again as she would prefer to watch the scenery not wrestle with a map.

I did buy a new satnav recently [cheaper than updating the maps on the old tomtom] which is very nice but refuses to take me the way I want to go! I tend to use the satnav to give me an idea of the likely destination arrival.


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## lalala (Aug 13, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> catzontour said:
> 
> 
> > our satnav can't pronounce French street names very well and becomes incomprehensible in cities.
> ...


I'm presuming this is Church Road. The one we like best is the 'Rue Barbe'
lala


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

So somebody resurected this post,it's getting close to the off for us,going to collect Orville on Sunday.Got a service/mot next week and another solar panel to fit before we go,hope the weather improves.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We have plenty of maps and a sat nav, but we discuss where we're going next and which might be the more "interesting" route to take, never a crossed word, but locally, I always seem to go the wrong way, but I wasn't brought up around here.

Tip, get Ozzy Osborne as a sat nav voice, or others, plenty out there for free download, it adds a little humour, especially if you make a wrong turn with some.


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

We call her Marianne. She is quite hormonal at the best of times. She s always set to French but has issues in Germany, major issues.
When we first got her she took us on such an incredible detour that we switched her off after an hour :roll: After many days of trying to find what was up we discovered she was delivered with "advanced detours" . How on earth factory settings come as advanced detours we shall never know.
We always treat her with suspicion as she has form for not being trusted. She is at best a source of amusement and when we actually need her has a nasty habit of shutting down.
Hormonal. Very.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

As had been mentioned before. the route chosen by the satnav is often not the one preferred by the user.

Our solution is to start off on the direction preferred by the two of us and happily the satnav adjust to the route without any petulance.

There are four reasons why I use a satnav

1. It will eventually get us to the chosen destination on the satnav (not always the correct destination unfortunately!!). This is very helpful in heavy traffic, bad weather and at night

2. It does give us a good idea of what to expect at the next junction

3. It gives us some idea of the speed limits. I am one of an almost extinct breed, I do try and stay within or not far over the speed limit.

4. It gives us a little information, but not much, about traffic conditions ahead.

When travelling my wife is the navigator and she has the maps and satnav under her control leaving me to concentyrate on driving.


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

Well I have to admit to loving my TT Start 60. We have had a fews previous ones but this is the best so far. Apart from the lovely large and almost reflection free display it has 2 great features. Just a touch on the bottom of the screen and it switches from 3d to plan view. It is easy then to zoom in or out to see where the satnav is taking you and if there is a better alternative. Great if you want to see if its using silly minor roads, or trying to cut a corner. Second is the "my position" in emergency section. When we broke down on the Austrian Motorway it pinpointed our position and enabled us to tell the breakdown service exactly where we were.

There are many more reasons for me, like marital relationships, but it just makes life so much easier.

Gary.


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

Sacked my navigator 10 years ago when I found I was lost in Glasgow. Replaced her with the sat nav never answers back, but sometimes I feel a 'told you so' moment almost breaking the surface.

Graham


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

zappy61 said:


> Sacked my navigator 10 years ago when I found I was lost in Glasgow. Replaced her with the sat nav never answers back, but sometimes I feel a 'told you so' moment almost breaking the surface.
> 
> Graham


Isn't it amazing how they manage to hold it back and still let you know at the same time.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

Brock said:


> In the UK, I write directions on a piece of paper and refer to that for directions. In the unlikely event of going wrong, I will ask my missus to get out the map. She's very good at finding the right way again.
> 
> She has refused to navigate if we ever went abroad again as she would prefer to watch the scenery not wrestle with a map.
> 
> I did buy a new satnav recently [cheaper than updating the maps on the old tomtom] which is very nice but refuses to take me the way I want to go! I tend to use the satnav to give me an idea of the likely destination arrival.


This is OK is you do not have to deviate - then the directions are useless - to continue using the directions you must get back to the original route.

If the deviation is large then it is quite likely that another route will be a better bet. Now if you are using a satnav it will automatically choose the better toute.

I also like to have the satnav on so that I can get some idea of the local speed limit. However I appreciate that knowing the speed limit is not important to about 85% of drivers who habitually ignore them so this function will not be of much to to many drivers


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

> oldun said:- Now if you are using a satnav it will automatically choose the better route.


Eventually!! 8O

If you come across a detour due to roadworks (_for example_) the bloody satnav can be worse than useless for anything up to 20 miles.

If all it does is nag at you to turn round and go back to the route which you know is impassable, *you are left totally without any useful guidance*. Just when you need it most! 8O

A lot depends on the particular circumstance of course, and it's often only a few miles - but during that time (_until the swine gives up and plots a different route_) it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Dave


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

I use both.

Mercedes Comand works a treat on the Continent. It and TMC has several times saved me from 20 odd kM jams. 

The Mrs. Looks for viewpoints and nice places to stop.

TM


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

John has Tom the tomtom and I have wendy, so long since i used it Nuvi. I like to have a look at the basic route on the map, and use Tom for the intricacies. 
John's favourite saying is Tom says :evil: 
Tom 'helped' us to arrive at the French end of the Somport tunnel. We had already discussed that we didn't deviate from the main road we were on, John insisted it must be a short cut and refused to look at the map till I pulled into a layby to look for myself. 
They are a great tool but a poor master, wouldn't be without either, even though mine is now 3 years out of date. At least it is better than the map it was published about 12 years ago :roll: 

Sue


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## peter21 (Aug 31, 2009)

*Belt and Braces*

We use a snooper satnav but also highlight the planned route each day on our trusty French road atlas with a yellow highlighter pen, so we can quickly work out where we are, and also mark the atlas with good coffee stops, aires, etc. It is useful for next time you are in the area , to remind you which route you took and also good back up for the satnav, for when you hit diversions, new roads etc.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

oldun said:


> Brock said:
> 
> 
> > In the UK, I write directions on a piece of paper and refer to that for directions. In the unlikely event of going wrong, I will ask my missus to get out the map. She's very good at finding the right way again.
> ...


As you don't mention which sat nav you bought I might be wrong, but most ones I've seen have the ability to avoid places you list, and also go via way points which you set, so no reason for any wrong routes.

As for out of date maps, not usually a problem, we got our TomTom in 2006 and it does sometimes get a little confused, but we have eyes to see the road markings and no entry signs etc.

My biggest gripe is they take so long to re-route if you miss a turn or decide to go an alternative way, and also that they will take you off a motorway, down the slip road, across the roundabout and back on again simply because it is a foot shorter that way, which because the zoom is too close in you couldn't check Grr.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Well we use Autoroute on a laptop with a gps connected Great for planning the trip ahead of time and following the route. We also have it set up with poi's for camp sites, etc. We also use google navigator on an android phone. Then there is Luisa with a map in her hand. 

So how is it that we still manage to get lost at times.?


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

We do the same as jhelm, but putting the netbook out of sight every time we stop for a coffee or a wander round a town is a bit of a pain, so . . . .

This year I'm going to try something else. I've planned a route to a destination on AutoRoute as usual, but plotted the same route into CoPilot on the phone. _(Much easier to do than with a TomTom.)_ I'll use CoPilot as a satnav, knowing that _(in theory!!)_ it will be taking us the same way as would AutoRoute - but much easier to set up and put away each time we stop.

Mrs Zeb has the same route marked on her map with a highlighter as she likes to follow where we are, so she will notice any significant deviation. She will also have AutoRoute ready on the netbook as a fallback if CoPilot doesn't come up to expectations - and for finding aires or sites if we need to.

We don't usually stick to a plan for very long, but we are going quite a long way south this time and shall want to get there reasonably quickly - so a route plan with stops checked out on Street View will be an advantage.

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

jhelm said:


> Well we use Autoroute on a laptop with a gps connected Great for planning the trip ahead of time and following the route. We also have it set up with poi's for camp sites, etc. We also use google navigator on an android phone. Then there is Luisa with a map in her hand.
> 
> So how is it that we still manage to get lost at times.?


John

I favour going with your method. I had Autoroute (2002) before, but not with a GPS stick. I have since lost the DVD.

I am about to get a new laptop so am weighing up whether to run it from the DVD or to load it, which I understand takes up 2Gb.

Dave

People write favourably about Co-Pilot, but does that not the phone to be on a network and is it prone to losing the signal, and expensive?

Geoff


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Geoff

CoPilot works completely offline - unless you want to use the Live Traffic function. Then you would need to enable Data Roaming, but it only checks every five minutes so I doubt if it would use a lot.

Dave


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Zebedee said:


> Hi Geoff
> 
> CoPilot works completely offline - unless you want to use the Live Traffic function. Then you would need to enable Data Roaming, but it only checks every five minutes so I doubt if it would use a lot.
> 
> Dave


Dave

Thanks

I am obviously a bit of a dinosaur - we do not have a smartphone and I could not imagine that one could hold a map of Europe, or even one country.

I shall have to do more research on Co-Pilot.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> Zebedee said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Geoff
> ...


You'd be amazed at how much data they can put onto a smart phone, I have most of Europe on mine for MapsWithMe, a very fine atlas, but not a sat nav, but I use it to follow the road, as it is better than TomTom for that and also for checking where my POIs are in relation to eachother, and the push pins can have a lot more information in them, and the paid version is peanuts, and excellent back up too.

http://mapswith.me/en/home


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

Geoff, have a look at http://www.openstreetmap.org/

I don't know where abouts you are in Poland, but have a zoom in and look at the level of detail.

Most of these apps (Osmand, MapsWithMe etc) source their maps from OpenStreetMap.

With an app like Osmand, you are basically carrying around the whole of OpenStreetMap in your phone / tablet, downloaded one country/county at a time.

The whole world takes up a LOT of space, but it is perfectly possible to fit most of Europe on an average smartphone, especially if it has the facility to accept a Micro SD card to expand its storage.

Remember, if you find anything missing n OpenStreetMap, you can just set up an account and add it yourself. Your changes will appear on your device the next time you update the maps for that area.

Morph


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Morph

Thanks. The detail on there is quite good in that it shows the tower on the side of our house. It is a bit out of date (tongue in cheek) because it shows an out-house we knocked down 3 years ago and not the new MH-port.

I am learning from this thread.

I think I am going for a notepad/laptop solution because of the screen size mounted a good metre away from my driving seat. I probably want to stick with a Windows OS. It seems that some of these Apps. are only for iPad/iPhone etc.

I would also like a 'truck' version but it is difficult, even for the programmes offering it, to get info on the countries covered by the 'truck' facility as opposed to the street maps - Co-Pilot is an example. Autoroute does not seem to offer 'truck' at all. The same applies for stand-alone Satnavs - particularly poor on Eastern Europe.

I shall have to keep researching, with additional help from you guys on here.

Geoff


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

I have the tom tom Go Live 1005 camper caravan and every thing that folk have given negative remarks to sat a nav I do not recognise, it has brought us through 20 odd countries on the last year trip without putting a foot wrong even the many diversions, it found it's way round them no problem at all..

The only country that it struggled was Albania and even the paper map we had for there was all over the place...

Sandra had a year of looking at the scenery instead of looking at paper maps. If the sat nav does not work for you and it is up to date with the maps, it's down to you not the navigator.

ray


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Yours is unique then Ray, or you are suffering from blissful ignorance like some friends of ours. :wink: They don't even take a map to France and yes, they do get to their destinations - but they have no idea of the route their satnav has taken them. Mind you - they do see a lot more of France than we do!! :roll:

I must obviously agree that they are wonderful gadgets. To have a moving map on a little screen, with a route indicated for you and a GPS location marker showing where you are to within a couple of metres . . . Captain Kirk would have loved one!! :lol:

BUT - they do take liberties, especially as you near your destination. I even contacted Messrs Garmin Technical Help when we had a Nuvi, and asked why it so often took silly short cuts down minor roads just to save a few yards. They acknowledged the "fault", and explained that they could do nothing about it because there simply isn't enough data contained within the mapping programs.

_*If the mapping software gives no indication of the width of the road, there's no way they can instruct the satnav to avoid it!!*_

To suggest that the TomTom will take you unerringly to a destination, using only the roads you would have chosen for yourself, is misleading 'cos it won't! 8O Rather I would advise Geoff (and others) to rely on them for most of the time between A and B, but become increasingly wary as you approach within 20 miles of B. It's then that they begin to take the shortcuts up the goat tracks.

Hope this helps

Dave 

P.S. If you are ever in South Wales and want to go from Llanelly to Kidwelly, DO NOT follow the TomTom. It will try to take you through Trimsaran, and if you ignore it and follow the (much better) coast road it will keep nagging you to go up roads so narrow and steep that I would be nervous about using them in the car!!

It is correct in "thinking" the Trimsaran route is quicker. It is longer, but the coast road is excruciatingly slow with a 30 limit almost all the way, but you wouldn't want to take the truck via the mountain roads!!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

The problem with all sat navs is usually the person using them not going far enough into them to set them up properly, I've had mine since 2006/7 and I'm still finding out new ways to do things, so the poor unit gets blamed for the driver going into a river etc, or not directing them the way they want to go, if you set it up properly, it will do what you want, (maybe)


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Up to a point Kev, but as I said in the mention about Trimsaran, the satnav is quite right to think it's a quicker route - but it ain't one that you would want to use in the motorhome, or (perish the thought) with a caravan in tow!!

There are only so many settings you can use, and you can't do anything about the shortcomings of the mapping software!

I treat the satnav just the same as the wife. I believe at least half of the directions it gives me, and it gets shouted at when I go wrong. Can't be fairer than that! :lol: 

Dave


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

There are exceptions, but I think too many people just blindly follow them, ours does try to take the mick now and then, but I'm the driver so make the decisions, it's a lot less worrying in the PVC than the Laika though.

One thing I never tried before, but did on Mull, was to set my destination town, but also to call at a LPG filling station along the route, perfect.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave and Kev

I am not quite in agreement with Dave about the extent of the limitations, because I drove VW T5s for 6-7 years all over UK using TomToms - probably 200,000 miles and I think I could count on one hand the times they led me astray.

But I agree with Kev that it depends on how you use them, e.g. they might take short cuts to save a few yards if set to shortest route but not if set to quickest, or main roads only. Similarly one needs to set the speed one wishes to achieve; so for a MH doing 50mph it will not take you the a long way round on a motorway that might be quicker if it were for a vehicle doing 70mph.

I would prefer to have a programme on a netbook/laptop for size of screen as I think a satnav on the Arto w/screen would be far away for both seeing and reaching to set.

I also would like a 'truck' version for the width and height of the Arto.

More research still needed.

Geoff


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

> nicholsong said:- I would prefer to have a programme on a netbook/laptop for size of screen . . .


CoPilot takes some beating Geoff.

30 quid all in, with Live Traffic free for a year and only £8 per year thereafter, and free map updates - for life AFAIK.

Better than a TomTom in some ways - certainly easier to tailor a route to your own specific requirements, with as many waypoints as you need.

Dave


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

it's gone barmy.

ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey up.

Any navigator is only as good as the person using it..

If you blast down A roads and motorways anybody can find their way around with a map, if you go off toll abroad or down country roads then a navigator is indispensable, it is so easy and stress free. Try and find some of the better out of the way aires and sostas in the tiny villages by using a map would be a nightmare, never mind getting through the big cities especially if you have taken a wrong turning, the navigator sorts it out in seconds..

It is a tool to use, and like any tool if you are not handy using them, then no matter how good the tool you won't make a good job..

So if you say navigators are no good, look to yourself first.

ray.


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## rayrecrok (Nov 21, 2008)

Edited it out.

Hey up it posted by itself.. spooky

ray


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

To reiterate what I wrote earlier -

'I would prefer to have a programme on a netbook/laptop for size of screen as I think a satnav on the Arto w/screen would be far away for both seeing and reaching to set.

I also would like a 'truck' version for the width and height of the Arto.

More research still needed.'

What I did not include there was that I would like to run it on Windows XP/ 7/ 8 so that we can copy over lots of stuff from this laptop to the new one.

It would seem that what I want does not exist for running on a Windows laptop, unless I have missed something.

This might be a silly question but is there anyway to tether a smart-phone running a suitable programme so that it just displays on the bigger screen, without trying to use two incompatible OS?

I may be forced down the route of having two devices, but I would still want a fair-sized screen or one mounted quite close, which does not seem so easy in the Arto.

OK you brains out there, any clever ideas, please.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

nicholsong said:


> This might be a silly question but is there anyway to tether a smart-phone running a suitable programme so that it just displays on the bigger screen, without trying to use two incompatible OS?
> 
> Geoff


Yes, but it does take a lot of farting about, at least it did for my remaining brain cell which struggles a but with anything I can't touch.

This will allow you to run "some" apps on the laptop

GPS might prove more difficult, but the back room boys on these apps will tell you if and how it might be possible.

I had mapswithme running briefly then I did something and although it still loads I can't see any mapping.

but other apps are very good, games etc in a bigger screen.


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## DavyS (Jan 10, 2009)

We have given up on Satnav too; TomTom was especially useless in villages in France.
Now use a tab computer with Osmand map. Has advantage over paper map in that it shows you your exact position so you dont miss turns.


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