# Insuring Efoy and methanol is NOT a problem



## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

Concern has been raised in a number of places on the forums that motorhome insurance companies will not allow their policyholders to carry any methanol for their Efoys. This has even been asserted as a definite fact.

Since it is not true in the case of my own fuel cell and my own insurers, I thought that it was time to establish the facts and so this week I have been asking several of the major motorhome and caravan insurers to clarify their stance. I thought that motorhomefacts members would like to know their responses.

So far:

Caravan Guard - They are happy to insure vehicles carrying the fuel cell and there is not problem with carrying the methanol fuel for it. However, they would not cover the value of of the fuel cell itself if it was stolen or damaged. I have this verbally over the telephone and also in writing via email:

"I have spoken to our underwriters (Royal & Sun Alliance) and they have confirmed that we can cover a vehicle with the Efoy Fuel Cell in – it wouldn’t affect the policy in any way. However, we would not cover the unit itself so if the Efoy Fuel Cell was stolen or damaged customers would not be able to claim for it."

Club Care (The Camping and Caravanning Club) - The insurers involved are Vantage Insurance who told me, after consulting their underwriters, that there is no problem or restriction regarding the carrying of methanol for the Efoy. But the installation should be notified to them so that they can include its value in the policy. As with any addition to the equipment on board its value might have an effect on the premium if it passes the excess value threshold. After speaking with their underwriters I was told the result verbally; with a promise of a full quote to follow next week so that we can place the statement on our web site. 

Caravan Club - waiting for their reply; has been referred to the club's Head of Insurance and Financial Services.

Safeguard - they are my own insurers. My own Efoy installation was notified to them some eighteen months ago and has been included on my policy ever since without demur. Nevertheless, I have now asked them to clarify their general policy and they have asked their underwriters for a response.	


What I asked:

I telephoned each insurer and explained my question, and then emailed them the following - to ensure that I was being clear and explicit in my request:

*********

We are seeking clarification of the position of insurers regarding Efoy_Fuel_Cells installed in motorhomes and caravans. 

Here is a link which will take you straight to our main product description page for the Efoy_Fuel_Cells - a device which charges the 12 volt batteries in leisure vehicles.

(I HAVE SELF-CENSORED THE LINK HERE, SO AS TO NOT OFFEND AGAINST THE FORUM RULES ON ADVERTSING)

We are a retailer of this product which is manufactured in Germany to the highest safety standards. Our page contains a link to the manufacturer's site where there is comprehensive information In English.

The units are now being factory-fitted as standard by many leading continental motorhome manufacturers and in the UK they are being sold as an aftermarket product. We are often asked by our customers for information about whether caravan and motorhome insurance companies might be averse to allowing the carrying of the methanol fuel cartridges which power the fuel cells and we would like to be able to re-assure them on this point, and perhaps point them to insurers who do not have a problem with it. Ideally we would like to include on our site a link to these insurers; perhaps with a reference which they can quote when they contact the insurer.

I would emphasise that the fuel cells and their methanol fuel cartridges are specifically designed and manufactured for use in leisure vehicles, and to be safe for this purpose.

*********


I hope that this information is useful to anyone who might have been put off by some of the comments on motorhomefacts.

Regards

David


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

The EFoy isn't the problem David it is the Methanol

5 Ltrs for example is the maximum that Comfort will insure you to carry.

All I have said in the past is to ask for clarification in writing that Methanol is acceptable to be carried.

If the insurer is happy to pay out in the event of a fire, they would be happy to write and confirm the fact.

I would rather not take the chance

Eddie


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> 5 Ltrs for example is the maximum that Comfort will insure you to carry.
> 
> All I have said in the past is to ask for clarification in writing that Methanol is acceptable to be carried.
> 
> Eddie


Eddie, I'm befuddled by your post - you have cited one insurer while choosing to ignore what I have posted on no less than the four major motorhome insurers.

I already have firm verbal statements from those who have responded so far that they do not have a problem with the methanol or place any restriction on carrying it (and they know that it is my intention to publicise their responses to a wide audience so why make it up?) as well as - so far - one emailed (err, that's written) response and the promise of further confirmations.

David


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

The one that I mentioned has been in communication with us so I used them as an example. At the NEC I walked and spoke to four insurers with the same effect 5ltrs!

Show us written acceptance and I will apologise! I for one prefer to believe what is written than what I am told by some one on the end of the phone.

All I am saying is: Anyone thinking of spending £2-3K on a fuel cell would be advised to get in writing, the upper limit, that that their insurance company is happy to allow them to carry.

No one mentioned that the insurers are unhappy with the Efoy unit itself.


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

I too have emailed several underwriters regarding the carriage of Methanol and also a can of petrol (which has inccreased energy content) and have responses. The basic answer was that so far no one has claimed for any loss related to the carriage of METHANOL. UNDERWRITERS DO NOT REQUIRE TO BE NOTIFIED WHEN A CAN OF methanol or Petrol is being carried. Unless claims attributed to the carriage of these fluids increase the stance of the underwriter is unlikely to change.

(Sorry about the caps lock)


Eddie, George says did it arrive in the post?


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> At the NEC I walked and spoke to four insurers.


Bet there weren't any underwriters there - and they're the ones who decide ( to second Clive's post).

I agree that it's the methanol that's the point - which is why I phrased my request to the insurers to cover exactly that question. Their answers are quite clear too - not an issue.

David


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Clive yes it did!

A can of petrol or methanol is considered, I have been told 5 Ltrs

Yes we have spoke to the powers that be, and we have it from the horse mouths.

I sell Efoys but I advise people that the fuel is difficult to get, and we advise them to get in writing, from their insurers, that the insurance company is aware and Ok with Methanol being transported and *in what quantities*

You sell them and say there is no problem! So I as always let people make up their own minds:roll:

I would close by suggesting that *IF* the insurance company is happy for the insured to carry say 20 ltrs (1 x 10ltr in the efoy and 1 x spare) then surely asking them for written confirmation, wouldn't be a problem, would it? so I fail to see the problem.


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## motorhomer2 (May 9, 2005)

CliveMott said:


> I too have emailed several underwriters regarding the carriage of Methanol and also a can of petrol (which has inccreased energy content) and have responses. The basic answer was that so far no one has claimed for any loss related to the carriage of METHANOL. UNDERWRITERS DO NOT REQUIRE TO BE NOTIFIED WHEN A CAN OF methanol or Petrol is being carried. Unless claims attributed to the carriage of these fluids increase the stance of the underwriter is unlikely to change.
> 
> (Sorry about the caps lock)
> 
> Eddie, George says did it arrive in the post?


We asked our insurance company very recently and they said they would want to know if an efoy cell was on board & if it was they would not offer to insure the vehicle at all

Motorhomer


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Motorhomer

We have had customers experience the same response, so we feel as a professional, honourable, business that we should advise people to check with their insurers and to check the actual availability of the methanol before they shell out a considerable amount of money.

Others don't :roll: 

Eddie


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> A can of petrol or methanol is considered, I have been told 5 Ltrs


Well, I have been told 'no restriction'. A named quantity of any sort would be a restriction, would it not?. I have been told 'no problem with the carrying of methanol'. I was not told 'no problem with carrying no more than x-quantity of methanol.'

Maybe I should ask them if they have a problem with carrying of corn flakes and it they say 'no' I should ask: 'What about more than one packet?'

Am I getting too flippant here? I hardly know by now but as far as I'm concerned the meaning of the words 'no problem' doesn't suddenly change because we are talking methanol not corn flakes.

Or what about carrying gas? No problem? But according to Eddie's reckoning we'd better all start asking our insurance companies to specify in writing just how many and what size of gas cylinders they will permit. Whatever you do, motorhomers, just don't take 'no problem' for an answer. If you are persistent enough you'll surely be able to force them too declare a problem and a limit.

Or you could just take it that 'no problem' means 'no problem.' If you have told your insurance company that you have installed an Efoy and that it uses methanol for its fuel I would imagine that you have discharged you duty of disclosure; if the company takes on this risk it is within its competence to have assessed that risk and stipulated any quantity if it wished to do so. That's its business, it's what it does.



> Yes we have spoke to the powers that be, and we have it from the horse mouths.


Read my post, Eddie, so have we and I've named all my horses; are they the same as yours? I am not claiming that all companies will accept the Efoys (without restriction on fuel); on the other hand you continue to imply that _no_ companies will accept Efoys (read methanol). What happened to competition Eddie: if company A will not insure your requirements and company B will, does this mean that your requirement can't be met?



> I sell Efoys but I advise people that the fuel is difficult to get, and we advise them to get in writing, from their insurers, that the insurance company is aware and Ok with Methanol being transported and *in what quantities*


Again, read my post Eddie: I am asking the companies for a definitive, statement and to provide a reference that policyholders can quote back to them and thereby refer to whatever statement they make. This is being helpful to our customers, aiming to provide them with accurate information with which they can arm themselves when speaking to their insurers or prospective insurers.

Your way is just scaring customers away from Efoys with unsubstantiated blanket statements. Again, note that my approach to insurers is a work-in-progress so I hope to be able to present further information in due course.



> You sell them and say there is no problem! So I as always let people make up their own minds:roll:


I say that they are insurable - hence it's not a problem; in the sense that it would be if insurance was unobtainable which is what you seem to maintain.



> I would close by suggesting that *IF* the insurance company is happy for the insured to carry say 20 ltrs (1 x 10ltr in the efoy and 1 x spare) then surely asking them for written confirmation, wouldn't be a problem, would it? so I fail to see the problem.


Yes, by all means ask them - but I'd suggest you ask the right company. Why flog one of Eddie's horses if they don't want your business?


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

motorhomer2 said:


> We asked our insurance company very recently and they said they would want to know if an efoy cell was on board & if it was they would not offer to insure the vehicle at all
> 
> Motorhomer


Hello,

Can you say which company - this would be valuable information?

David


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> Hi Motorhomer
> 
> We have had customers experience the same response, so we feel as a professional, honourable, business that we should advise people to check with their insurers and to check the actual availability of the methanol before they shell out a considerable amount of money.
> 
> ...


Now you are being downright offensive.

I have had my own Efoy installed from the time I began selling them (about eighteen months ago). I notified my insurance company (Safeguard) at the time and explained what it was and there was no problem. My policy was not affected and the Efoy itself is covered as part of the equipment. So there was no problem that I should warn anyone about.

And now with the issue having being raised recently (initially by Eddie, as I recall) I have been taking steps to get some hard information. Not only professional and honourable, but also very keen to proffer the truth.


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

eddievanbitz said:


> Hi Clive yes it did!
> 
> A can of petrol or methanol is considered, I have been told 5 Ltrs
> 
> ...


just a thought but what do you advise if you fit a petrol genny, as petrol in a container would need to be carried and from a safety angle methonal in a container or petrol in a container whats the difference?

the legal limit for methanol appears to be 240 ltrs

http://www.tsw-comsat-sales.co.uk/wordpress/2009/03/methanol-the-law-and-your-efoy-power-cell/


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Whilst members here are doubtless interested to hear of potential snags (or lack of same) connected with the carriage of (or supply of) methanol I don't think they are at all interested in trade rivalry concerned with the supply of same. If you guys wish to argue the point, please do so by PM.



davidcampervanstuff said:


> Now you are being downright offensive.


On the contrary.
I would consider it prudent advice to consult your insurer prior to carrying a quantity of inflammable liquid around, I'm sure that individual insurers will have differing attitudes to carrying hazardous liquids other than those considered "normal" for a motorhome. The only way to ensure you are covered is to ask.

If you consider that any member has made an offensive remark, the correct procedure is to "report" the post to the moderators by using the exclamation mark icon above the offending post.


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

gaspode said:


> On the contrary.
> I would consider it prudent advice to consult your insurer prior to carrying a quantity of inflammable liquid around, I'm sure that individual insurers will have differing attitudes to carrying hazardous liquids other than those considered "normal" for a motorhome. The only way to ensure you are covered is to ask.
> 
> If you consider that any member has made an offensive remark, the correct procedure is to "report" the post to the moderators by using the exclamation mark icon above the offending post.


Hello Gaspode,

I too think that it woud be prudent to notify my insurer, not just about carrying inflammable liguids as in this case, but about absolutely anything which the insurer might later reasonably claim to having fallen outside of the agreed cover.

At no point in this thread have I suggested otherwise; in fact I have reported advice from the insurance companies to tell them if an Efoy is installed; I have also said quite clearly that I reported my own installation to my insurer.

I would also imagine that members of motorhomefacts already understand very well the wisdom of properly informing their insurance company of anything which might be relevant.

I took exception to the other posting because of what I saw as a clear and intentional inference that 'others' are not professional and honourable. Thank you for the information about how I should have dealt with this and I will do so in the furture; but I hope that on this occasion you will allow me this explanation of why I considered it offensive, and so draw a line under it. I will be delighted to be done with any acrimony.

In fact the whole thread has become diverted, I feel; my original posting was a pretty simple and straightforward offering of some information and was completely non-contentious as far as it went; anyone could follow up with a call to one of the mentioned insurance companies and verify it for themselves.

Regards

David


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

motorhomer2 said:


> We asked our insurance company very recently and they said they would want to know if an efoy cell was on board & if it was they would not offer to insure the vehicle at all
> 
> Motorhomer


People are being refused insurance because of methanol! Plain and simple


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

davidcampervanstuff said:


> Concern has been raised in a number of places on the forums that motorhome insurance companies will not allow their policyholders to carry any methanol for their Efoys. This has even been asserted as a definite fact.
> 
> Since it is not true in the case of my own fuel cell and my own insurers, I thought that it was time to establish the facts and so this week I have been asking several of the major motorhome and caravan insurers to clarify their stance. I thought that motorhomefacts members would like to know their responses.
> 
> ...


Hi David,

Did you ever hear back from the Caravan Club on this?

Pete


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

I carried out the same excercise as David a year back and got similar responses to David. I guess that Eddie must have put the question a little differently or perhaps just found the exception insurance company.


C.


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## Batch (Dec 2, 2005)

I informed SAGA and no problem


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

> Hi David,
> 
> Did you ever hear back from the Caravan Club on this?
> 
> Pete


Hi Pete,

I'm afraid that I did not have further contact with the Caravan Club on this, or with the other insurers apart from my own, Safeguard Insurance. 
The bottom line is that I ran out of steam on this one; too many other things on my plate ... errr in my boiler ..

Naturally I have been in touch with my own insurers, Safeguard, most recently at renewal time. They had been unable to get a definitive, general-purpose statement from their underwriters on this topic, but as before there was no problem with my own cover and no restriction placed on my carrying of methanol, of which Safeguard is fully aware.

As in any other sphere of insurance, the companies have different policies; my own view is that they become keener to oblige when they otherwise risk losing business which they would rather have.

So there is always a choice: but do ask the question and ensure that your own insurer is providing the cover which you require. If the Caravan Club wasn't sufficiently interested in my question to respond, one way or the other, it's no loss to me.

Regards

David


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## PlanetGen (Feb 12, 2009)

The problem is the fuel itself. As a for instance my couriers wont send the cartridges to residential addresses. 
I have had 2 customers mention to me that they could not get insurance because they had Efoys fitted, one became annoyed with me because I sell Efoy therefore i was the big bad wolf! 
I would be interested to know how many companies you spoke to to find 4 that would? 
Efoy is brilliant, I personally would wait until the LPG version. I would also out of politeness and professionalism ask my customers to speak with their insurance company.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

davidcampervanstuff said:


> Hi Pete,
> I'm afraid that I did not have further contact with the Caravan Club on this, or with the other insurers apart from my own, Safeguard Insurance. . . . . .
> 
> . . . . . Naturally I have been in touch with my own insurers, Safeguard, most recently at renewal time. * They had been unable to get a definitive, general-purpose statement from their underwriters on this topic *, but as before there was no problem with my own cover and no restriction placed on my carrying of methanol, of which Safeguard is fully aware.


 (My emphasis within the quote.)

This suddenly sounds a lot less factual and reassuring David. 8O

I'm no expert on insurance companies but have suffered the same "experiences" as many people :roll: .

I wonder how long it would take to get that "_definitive, general-purpose statement from their underwriters_" in the event of a huge claim for a methanol accelerated fire or explosion, possibly involving several other vehicles/persons, maybe in a motorway pile-up??

I also wonder whether it would rule in favour of the insured, or the underwriters? (No I don't - I'm being disingenuous there 8O !!)

This sounds as if we are still very much at the "Caveat emptor" stage, despite the protestations and reassurances of those members who think there is nothing at all to worry about?

Until there is cast iron, written confirmation that underwriters have accepted the risk, it seems to me that those who advocate caution and investigation before spending such large sums of money are offering sound advice. :?

Dave :? :?


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

PlanetGen said:


> The problem is the fuel itself. As a for instance my couriers wont send the cartridges to residential addresses.
> I have had 2 customers mention to me that they could not get insurance because they had Efoys fitted, one became annoyed with me because I sell Efoy therefore i was the big bad wolf!
> I would be interested to know how many companies you spoke to to find 4 that would?
> Efoy is brilliant, I personally would wait until the LPG version. I would also out of politeness and professionalism ask my customers to speak with their insurance company.


Hi Planetgen,
I spoke to only the companies which I detailed in one of my previous posts and therefore the information which I gave was the whole story; there was nothing selective about it.

I did not presume to attempt an exhaustive survey of insurers, particularly since at the end of the day it is a matter for each policyholder to establish that a particular insurer will offer the cover that is required.

I have little doubt that if it was possible to list one thousand insurers who stated that they have no problem with Efoys, then someone would dismiss this on the basis that that their company (but probably without mentioning the name of the company) said 'no'.

It can only deduce that the customers which you refer to did not try the insurers which told me that they no problem with the covering the fuel.

But if people prefer to stick with insurance companies who do not provide what they want then those companies will be happy to carry on as they are.

Regards

David


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> This suddenly sounds a lot less factual and reassuring David. 8O
> 
> I'm no expert on insurance companies but have suffered the same "experiences" as many people :roll: .
> 
> ...


Hi Dave,
I have provided full disclosure to Safeguard and therefore they have had the opportunity 'to reassess the premiums and terms of my policy' - as the wording of the policy states that they will do when notified of any change of details. As a result they have imposed no further premium, conditions or prohibitions.

This seems pretty explicit to me, in terms of my own cover. I'd say that this takes precedence over a general statement of policy from the underwriters, which has not been forthcoming. So I guess that leaves Safeguard in the position of having to confirm cover with individual policyholders who ask to have an Efoy covered - not the same as denying cover.

Regards

David


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi again David

I understand what you are saying, but it still seems like a bit of a "nail biter" to me, knowing how enthusiastic insurers can be when there's a chance of avoiding a payout!!

I suppose it all come down to whether you trust your insurers or not . . . and I should quickly add that I am also with Safeguard and have no problems with them.

A trivial example I know, but when Mrs Zeb fell off her bike and damaged it, the insurers (not Safeguard) shilly-shallied for three months and made me fill in three separate long distance questionnaires . . . then refused to pay out because _*she was riding it at the time of the accidental damage*_. 8O 8O 8O

I kid you not, and will not bore you with any more details, but if they will go to those lengths to avoid forking out less than a hundred quid . . . . . . 8O 8O 8O

Dave


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

Zebedee said:


> Hi again David
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but it still seems like a bit of a "nail biter" to me, knowing how enthusiastic insurers can be when there's a chance of avoiding a payout!!
> 
> ...


I am with Safeguard because when I first sought motorhome insurance I found that their policy did indeed seem to be written with the specific needs of motorhome users, as they claimed.

In contrast I had first tried to get quotes from the insurance service of the UKs two major club organsisations and what a frustrating experience that was; it was difficult getting beyond even the basic description of the vehicle - an imported Westfalia pop-top camper at the time. I guess it did not come up in the standard list that the call centre staff had available and they just did not seem to have any understanding of that type of camper.

Safeguard knew exactly what I was talking about and were very easy to deal with; I did feel that I really was dealing with specialists.

Having said all that, not for one moment do I ever lose sight of the potential for problems with any insurance company if it ever came to claim time, so I take care to provide full information.

By the way, have you ever paid close attention to the detail of your home contents insurance policy? Don't be surprised to find the you might not get paid if, as well as making it difficult, with door and window locks of a particular type, for an intruder to get in - you fail to also make it difficult for them to get out again.

I interpret my own policy as meaning that if an intruder is able to readily open a door or window to exit, without breaking said door or window, I might have been careless and therefore ..

Oops, getting hot under the collar here.

David


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi David

We must stop meeting like this - people will talk!! 8O :lol:  

On topic though, more or less! :roll:

Yes, I chose Safeguard for the same reasons as you. No (_apparent_?) hidden extras, very comprehensive cover and competitive rates when you compare like with like . . . difficult though that is! :roll:

I don't want an Efoy, but if I did I think I would feel as secure with Safeguard as anyone. You can at least talk to their sales staff in simple terms, and you do get the impression they are ordinary folk doing a decent job - not just call centre robots reading from a script. 8O

Dave


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

To my way of thinking if Safeguard have confirmed over the telephone that they are happy to insure you whilst carrying the methanol etc then there is absolutely NO reason why they should not be perfectly willing to put this in writing for you, in fact I feel it is something they should really have done without being requested to, if the truth be known! If they do NOT respond with a written statement or clause, clearly stating this important fact, then of course that says it all really and alarm bells will obviously start ringing!  

I hope your assumptions are correct as I am sure this would be of interest to many motorhome owners who are seriously considering this system and if insurance is NOT a problem, then I think a lot more motorhomers will be keen to know more about it.

Sue


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

A further note of caution here:

Safeguard seem to be being held up as a shining example here of an insurer that caters for the needs of motorhomers and their special requirements.
I personally have no experience of their services and can only go off what is being stated here by other members. I do think however that in the case of "unusual conditions of cover" as are being discussed here, the only way to be sure you're covered is if the agreed conditions are actually stated in the policy.
Now I'm pretty certain that Safeguard are NOT THE INSURERS, they are insurance brokers. It's the actual insurance company, not the broker who needs to state in writing that the carriage of specific flammable liquids is acceptable, not the broker.


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## Chudders (Jul 5, 2008)

I think Safeguard are part of the Swinton group
Dave


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Wise words from Gaspode. 

For my part any recommendations I make for Safeguard are purely comparative. By that I mean they are IMHO better than most of the others. :roll:

BUT please take note of the one I made earlier >> Here <<.

Without written confirmation originating from the underwriters I would not feel confident of being fully and properly insured to carry methanol. This is an "_unusual_" condition, and there is no precedent as far as I know, so nothing to fall back on for guidance or support. 8O

Dave


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

Chudders said:


> I think Safeguard are part of the Swinton group
> Dave


Correct. And my policy also states 'Thank you for choosing Allianz. Your Safeguard Motorhome policy ...'

David


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## CaravanG (Apr 18, 2008)

*response from Caravan Guard insurance*

I'm pleased to announce that we have now clarified this matter further with our underwriter RSA , who have confirmed we can cover Efoy Fuel Cells provided they are accounted for in your total insured value.

I hope that this comes as good news for any motorhomers who have an fuel cell installed or who are looking to get one.

Just to be clear: 
We can accept customers with fuel cells fitted under normal terms. The only thing that you need to remember is to tell us you have one fitted and account for the value of the fuel cell in your total insured value. So if your motorhome is worth £30,000, and your fuel cell worth £1800 then your insurance premium will be calculated on the total 'insured value' of £31,800.

Remember also to add any other extra items of fixed equipment which you may have had permanently installed to your motorhome such as audio video equipment or security devices to your total insured value. Of course non fixed equipment such as utensils, awnings and accessories, audio or video equipment, television and radio equipment and navigation equipment which are not permanently fitted to your motorhome are automatically covered by our policy, at no extra cost, up to a value of £500 per single item and up to a total combined value of £3000.

If anyone has any further questions then please email [email protected] or call 01422 396 777 and speak to one of our friendly insurance advisers.

Many Thanks 
Neil Walker 
Caravan Guard


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

I am glad that the matter is now being resolved, some 18 months on from being stated as a FACT!

I am glad that I raised the issue of problems insuring efoy/methanol.

If it is not a problem in the eyes of the insurers, it never matters making them aware in my opnion. I would rather sell honestly and openly and expect my staff to do the same.

I don't expect that I will recieve any apologies for the flak though :roll: 

Eddie


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Poor Eddie, will sympathy do instead? Alan.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

erneboy said:


> Poor Eddie, will sympathy do instead? Alan.


Hi Alan, money sent in a brown paper envelope would be great :lol:

Eddie


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: response from Caravan Guard insurance*



CaravanG said:


> I'm pleased to announce that we have now clarified this matter further with our underwriter RSA , who have confirmed we can cover Efoy Fuel Cells provided they are accounted for in your total insured value.
> 
> I hope that this comes as good news for any motorhomers who have an fuel cell installed or who are looking to get one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that information Neil perhaps I'm just unusually thick here but didn't this thread and others over the past couple of years evolve not so much around the fitting of an Efoy but the carriage of methanol and any associated limit on quantities carried.

So do Caravan Guard have a limit on carrying methanol?


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Poor Eddie, will sympathy do instead? Alan.


I doubt it, Alan.

It would be kinder therapy to save anyone from having to go back all the way to the very first posting in this thread (my post); so here is a very relevant extract from that post: 


davidcampervanstuff said:


> Caravan Guard - They are happy to insure vehicles carrying the fuel cell and there is not problem with carrying the methanol fuel for it. However, they would not cover the value of of the fuel cell itself if it was stolen or damaged. I have this verbally over the telephone and also in writing via email:
> 
> "I have spoken to our underwriters (Royal & Sun Alliance) and they have confirmed that we can cover a vehicle with the Efoy Fuel Cell in - it wouldn't affect the policy in any way. However, we would not cover the unit itself so if the Efoy Fuel Cell was stolen or damaged customers would not be able to claim for it."


So this latest statement from Caravan Guard is merely (albeit welcome) a revision about only one aspect of their position - which is that they will now also cover the value of the Efoy unit itself, provided its value in added to the declared value of the vehicle.

The original statement was made eighteen months ago - so no, it was not a long time coming - and made it clear then that there was no issue with carrying methanol and it would not affect the policy in any way. It was a very explicit statement; perhaps there has been too much fug about which obscured that ...errr.... fact.

Regards


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

*Re: response from Caravan Guard insurance*



CaravanG said:


> I'm pleased to announce that we have now clarified this matter further with our underwriter RSA , who have confirmed we can cover Efoy Fuel Cells provided they are accounted for in your total insured value. Many Thanks Neil Walker
> Caravan Guard


David

It is not a difficult concept to grasp. They have NOW clarified, so to keep trying to state that 18 months ago it was "Fact" is in fact nonsense.

The point that I was making some 18 months ago was that as a responsible retailer of EFOY we advised our customers to notify their insurers. This came about as some insurance companies were refusing cover, as some members on this forum had found out.

Perhaps as a one man band you can deal with each situation differently but Van Bitz had to give a clear guidline to our staff regarding the situation of some insurers and EFOY

Eddie


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## davidcampervanstuff (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: response from Caravan Guard insurance*



eddievanbitz said:


> CaravanG said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pleased to announce that we have now clarified this matter further with our underwriter RSA , who have confirmed we can cover Efoy Fuel Cells provided they are accounted for in your total insured value. Many Thanks Neil Walker
> ...


Obviously it _is_ a difficult concept to grasp. I quoted to you a statement "I have spoken to our underwriters (Royal & Sun Alliance) and they have confirmed that we can cover a vehicle with the Efoy Fuel Cell in - it wouldn't affect the policy in any way." It is a FACT that Caravan Guard made this statement 18 months ago.

I wouldn't presume to make statements about the size of your band, Eddie, but perhaps you might bear in mind that mine's repertoire and resources were big enough to encompass actually asking a number of insurance companies about their policy on Efoy, and to publish the result in this thread. I'd venture to say that the latest positive development from Caravan Guard is a direct follow-on from my initiative.

I'd say that making an effort to present a balanced picture is definitely a part of being a responsible retailer.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Eddie, I must agree with David. It's not the first time you have made that remark and it does you no credit, nor does it support what your were saying in any way. I say this a a cyber friend, Alan.


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## karlb (Feb 22, 2009)

*Re: response from Caravan Guard insurance*



eddievanbitz said:


> CaravanG said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pleased to announce that we have now clarified this matter further with our underwriter RSA , who have confirmed we can cover Efoy Fuel Cells provided they are accounted for in your total insured value. Many Thanks Neil Walker
> ...


the one man band comment reminded me of this


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

oh yes :twisted: :twisted: 

cabby


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Simply put we exhibit across the country and we actually have EFOYs in stock and on displays at the shows. I personally do not always attend the shows so we have an "official line" 

Consequently we warn customers that they will have to advise their insurances Company.

Motorhomer2 on the first page of this thread wrote

"We asked our insurance company very recently and they said they would want to know if an efoy cell was on board & if it was they would not offer to insure the vehicle at all

Motorhomer"

I still think that this is the correct thing and professional thing to do, it costs nothing and it could protect our customers against a big loss.

If I have said anything incorrect I will happily appologise.

Eddie


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## CaravanG (Apr 18, 2008)

Further to the discussion regarding Efoy Fuel Cells I just wanted to clarify the insurance cover for the carrying of spare methanol fuel.

We have confirmed with the underwriter that _"The methanol would be covered as long as it is stored in a safe manner, as per the manufacturers guide lines." _

Hopefully we have now provided all the clarification needed regarding Efoy Fuel Cells but if anyone does have any questions then please either respond here or email us at [email protected]

Thanks to everyone for their input on this matter, your feedback is invaluable in trying to improve the cover and service we offer.

regards

Neil Walker
Caravan Guard


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