# For those of us over 3.5 tonnes, to go or not to go?



## Glandwr

Hi, our van has max wt. of 5.99 tonnes (4+ empty). It does not however look it. It’s 7.5 metres long and only has 2 axles albeit with a total of 6 wheels. Giveaway though is plate by door.

I have more than once found myself in a <3.5 tonne area particularly in France. Anyone had problems with being over wt. in such areas? How wary should we be? Size wise we are no bigger than many sub 3.5 tonners and once followed the local (much bigger) bus. 

I’m not talking about bridges and have no intention of making a habit of ignoring road signs, but would be interested in the thoughts of others.

Dick


----------



## Penquin

Personally, I would be wary of ignoring it.

It is quite possible for a local police oifficer to just want to check and they are not tolerant of people deliberately ignoring such things.

It often surprises me to see the <3.5t warnings "except buses and deliveries" which weigh much more. I presume it is a worry about size and cornering.

Our Kontiki is 3.8t and I have found that I have inadvertently ignored them a couple of times - but it can lead to some stressful minutes before exiting ffrom the restricted area.............

It will be interesting to se what others think/do.. :? 

Dave


----------



## raynipper

I might be more 'cavalier' than you Dick as with all my previous RVs being 8 to 12 ton and 39ft. long, I regularly ignored the 3.5 ton limits in France.

In 20 years we only brought three towns to a standstill where bollards prevented us from negotiating some tight bends. 
But the police were sympathetic and most helpful in extricating us from these bottlenecks. 

Memorable events as well. Go for it.

Ray.


----------



## SaddleTramp

A few years ago quite inadvertently I entered just such an area, a local gendarme came and inspected my vehicle and straight away I was issued with a fine, My vehicle was a 5.5 tonne the max as you say was 3.5 t so I was fined €200 as I was 2000kilo over and I was fined €100 per tonne.
Kept my eyes open ever since.

I had difficulty finding my registration document and he was going to also fine me for not being able to show it then wife found it. 8O


By the way mine was similar to yours and didn't look 5.5 t


----------



## MicknPat

Penquin said:


> It often surprises me to see the <3.5t warnings "except buses and deliveries" which weigh much more. I presume it is a worry about size and cornering.


In the UK such restrictions have nothing to do with the size or weight for example a weak or narrow bridge will for certain have one, no residents on housing estates where there is an industrial estate that has access other than through the housing estate will display them.

Obviously in those cases vehicles making deliveries can enter but ONLY to make a delivery or carry out a service.

Mick


----------



## raynipper

I guess I was luckier than you then Les.
In Brittany one year with our 36ft. Winnebago towing a ZX we followed the signs to St Brieuc as we had never been there before.
Next thing we knew we had come to a 'T' junction in the middle of the town. Left was into a car park with a 6ft. height barrier and right was into a closed walking precinct full of tables and chairs outside many restaurants.

Considering what to do with the usual cacophony of horns from the irate French drivers behind me, a police woman came up and asked if I needed help? Seeing the situation and my perplexed expression, she said for me to follow her into the cobbled walking street. 

She waved the diners to pick up their tables and chairs and make room for our passage between them all. I can still see the amazed expressions as we squeezed past diners holding full tables and still chewing lunch.

Eventually we exited the 'tourist' street and she bade us farewell and safe journey. She could not have been nicer and I guess at some point I had missed the 3.5 ton sign.

We did it again in Cassis. But this time plod was a little upset as we had to back all the traffic up a long hill.

Ray.


----------



## peedee

I am like Penguin, rather wary of ignoring it but have on occasions found myself within the limit and even confronted by a bridge with a 3.5 ton limit! My gross is 3.8 so I have so far got away with it. I was stopped by the police in Chateauroux once and thought I was about to be at the very least ticked off, but he only wanted to advise me the campsite was closed due to flooding and told me where else to go.  

peedee


----------



## Jented

Hi.
It could be to do with drains,vibration on the old buildings,people not wanting larger vehicles coming through their "Picture-Skew" town.
Having worked within weight limited areas,you do get stopped,however,i think its much like speeding,when you get caught and fined £60 quid,you have to count up the number of times you have sped, and not been caught,then divide those into £60, you may be surprised,that on average it works out at "Pennies" a time.
Two reasons not to enter,one,you may lose your pride and joy down a sewer,second,and the worst,if you have an accident within the weight limit,you may find you have NO,insurance,still,its up to you,and your "Lucky Rabbits foot". (It was not so lucky for the rabbit LOL).Stay LUCKY!!.
Gearjammer.


----------



## Rapide561

*France*

Hi

I try not to ignore the signs - I was once caught out in France with some very tight turns. Also, it could be a weak bridge etc.

Russell


----------



## Mrplodd

I am truely amazed at some of the responses to this question  

These signs are the same as in the UK, they indicate that there is a legal restriction on a particular section of road. The reason behind the restriction is irrelevant. 

If you choose to ignore it you are breaking the law! no ifs, no ands, no buts, no excuse :roll: 

Would you consider ignoring a "No Entry" sign because its inconvenient? How about a one way street? or "No Right Turn" or a Red Traffic light?? 

You KNOW you are over 3500Kg so if you choose to ignore the restriction (for whatever reason) you must be prepared to pay whatever fine is levied for committing that offence!!!

Just suppose an eastern european artic comes through your town and just ignores any restriction present because he doesn't feel its an "appropriate" restriction. Is that acceptable to you because thats what you are talking about doing in a French town :roll: 

We all complain about "rogue" motorhomers behaving badly (litter etc) getting us a bad name don't we, ignoring such restrictions in France will get ALL UK motorhomers a similar bad name.

DONT DO IT 
(capitalised on purpose)


----------



## Chausson

Hi
Coming from Honfluer last year on the D roads which were clearly marked 3.5 ton, we are 3.5 ton, rounding a corner I had to tuck into a hedge pretty sharpish because an artic with a 40' trailer was coming round and he was taking no prisoners and did not care what was coming. That's the French for you and don't you just love them.   .

Ron


----------



## duxdeluxe

The restrictions are there for a very good reason. Ignore them at your peril.......... A couple of years ago an overweight artic went over one of the London bridges (Hammersmith? Not sure). The bridge suffered considerable damage, was closed and presumably the driver got a bit of a beasting for his misdemeanours........

There is not difference in principle from the above multi million pound repair and a 3.8 tonne van going through an area restricted to 3.5 tonnes. Only the scale differs.

Sorry to be a killjoy but the law is the law and there for a reason. (steps down off soapbox)


----------



## gaspode

I don't have a problem with simple weight restriction signs, what I have difficulty with is the 3500kg signs that are springing up all around towns that are clearly intended to ensure that heavy vehicles don't use the town centre as a through route. Usually these signs have a qualifying text underneath which I (as someone whose French is VERY basic) have difficulty interpreting correctly. I've searched for suitable answers on the 'net but haven't found a comprehensive list of these meanings yet. No doubt they mean "except for access" or "excluding deliveries" etc. which in most cases could be legally ignored by a large M/H needing access to a supermarket, shops, filling station or municipal campsite etc.

Does anyone know where I can find a comprehensive list of these exceptions and their precise meanings?


----------



## raynipper

Is this one Gaspode......................???
Sauf Riverains 

Street sign 
Originally uploaded by Nevoir. Its funny. You go to Paris, see a cool looking sign and take a photo of it. 

You get home, look it up in a dictionary and find out that it means "except residents".....its definitely seemed more exotic when I didnt know the translation..

Makes me wonder how many French photographers have taken pictures of english "give way" and "adverse camber" signs and have them proudly displayed on the walls of their gites...

Ray.


----------



## grizzlyj

Mrplodd said:


> I am truely amazed at some of the responses to this question
> 
> These signs are the same as in the UK, they indicate that there is a legal restriction on a particular section of road. The reason behind the restriction is irrelevant.
> 
> If you choose to ignore it you are breaking the law! no ifs, no ands, no buts, no excuse :roll:
> 
> Would you consider ignoring a "No Entry" sign because its inconvenient? How about a one way street? or "No Right Turn" or a Red Traffic light??
> 
> You KNOW you are over 3500Kg so if you choose to ignore the restriction (for whatever reason) you must be prepared to pay whatever fine is levied for committing that offence!!!
> 
> Just suppose an eastern european artic comes through your town and just ignores any restriction present because he doesn't feel its an "appropriate" restriction. Is that acceptable to you because thats what you are talking about doing in a French town :roll:
> 
> We all complain about "rogue" motorhomers behaving badly (litter etc) getting us a bad name don't we, ignoring such restrictions in France will get ALL UK motorhomers a similar bad name.
> 
> DONT DO IT
> (capitalised on purpose)


Mrplodd I'm amazed at your response!

I had thought of pm-ing you this very question, as I had done ages ago another of the boys in blue here, who could give no definite answer regarding the 3.5 ton goods vehicle limit sign regarding campers.

As everyone knows it is not a weight limit, these are of a different sign type and apply to all vehicles without exception in day to day life.

These signs have a picture of a lorry on them, nothing else. They have no bearing to PCVs who may well be 10 tons and more. I had been told they are given local dispensation, but that still does not mean a private vehicle is not allowed. The Highway Code doesn't differentiate, nor does anything that I can find.

Last year during Class C licence lessons I asked all four instructors who worked with that school all of whom said it was for goods vehicles only. On the test I asked again of the examiner having explained my need for a Class C was only for my campervan. He said not only does the sign not apply to me in my camper, but neither did it to me at that time while driving the school HGV, as that legally is not a goods vehicle either and we were free to take such a route if he so decided. He does so regularly since it varies his day, and widens the route choice stopping pupils trying to memorise any! 

My only experience in France was squeezing into a Med coast towns Shoppi carpark, to be told by a Gendarme also shopping that I was not allowed in the high street of "his" town, and if he saw me he would fine me. I'd just driven down "his" high street to find the Shoppi, and there were no restrictions at all?!? Many French signs say 3.5 ton unless you're visiting which is what we're there for! 

I am certainly open to anyone proving me wrong regarding the 3.5 ton sign, but perhaps with a reasoned argument and proof please?

Jason


----------



## gaspode

raynipper said:


> Is this one Gaspode......................???
> Sauf Riverains


Well that's certainly one that has baffled me in the past Ray.
So if we go past one of those and get pulled up we tell the gendarme that we're staying at the municipal campsite? :wink:

Interesting response from Jason too. AFAIK French weight restriction signs either display an axle with a weight limit - obvious one that is and clearly applies to "all vehicles" or a picture of a lorry with a weight limit - so can I safely interpret that style of sign as applicable to "goods vehicles only" and ignore it?


----------



## grizzlyj

gaspode said:


> so can I safely interpret that style of sign as applicable to "goods vehicles only" and ignore it?


Definitely. Please leave today, testing the theory as often as poss and report back!


----------



## Penquin

This site has a good selection of signs and what they mean, there are different sections; informative signs, regulative signs and so on;

http://www.travel-island.com/road.traffic.signs/regulative.road.signs.html

the comparison between maximum laden weight e.g. 3.5t is made and axle limit,

Dave


----------



## CliveMott

Never done anything like that!



Cough




Cough.


----------



## gaspode

Penquin said:


> This site has a good selection of signs and what they mean, there are different sections; informative signs, regulative signs and so on;


That's one of the more informative sites Dave but it doesn't show any of the signs I refer to. The signs I refer to show either a lorry (like the "lorries prohibited" sign) with supplementary text underneath or the "Laden weight limit" sign, again with supplementary text. The nub of the matter is in the supplementary text, not the graphic - which is quite clear. I usually interpret this text to mean either "Except for access" or "Except for local deliveries" but my French isn't good enough to be certain that I'm applying the correct interpretation.


----------



## Glandwr

In the OP I was thinking particularly of France. I take the point from posters citing the supremacy of Law and potential damage done by heavy vehicles, and think that the 3.5 tonne restriction in this country is used sparingly and more often than not for very sensible reasons.

Those though that travel France with an eye tuned for such signs would have noticed more and more small towns and villages are designating all but through roads as <3.5 tonne. (guess? probably just a decree from the Mayor). I would even suspect that many aires are now becoming inaccessible for heavier campers. Now while seeing the desirability of banning HGVs from residential areas (something done here with the 7.5 tonne ban) I can’t see the Communes wanting to discourage camping cars on grounds of wt. given the way they seem to compete with each other for our euros.

Dick

edited to sound less abrupt - sorry


----------



## Westkirby01

Sorry folks. I have to agree with Mrplod.

Whether you agree with the signs or not. If the limit is 3.5t then adhere. Mine is 4.5. Observation is the name of the game. Many of the car parks in our UK towns are now marked not for 3.5t I park on the road near. It's legal, so I'm ok.

We have a Motorhome for pleasure, and we are fortunately never in a hurry. If we have to walk a little, no problem.


----------



## DTPCHEMICALS

Dick stick to touring Wales

dave p


----------



## gaspode

Westkirby01 said:


> Whether you agree with the signs or not. If the limit is 3.5t then adhere.


I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that where there is a clear and unambiguous 3.5t weight limit it should be disobeyed. To do otherwise would be inciting others to committ an offence.

More the discussion (specifically with reference to France - NOT UK) is about whether weight limits applicable to goods vehicles also apply to M/Hs (which are definitely NOT goods vehicles) and how the French weight limit signs should be interpreted.


----------



## grizzlyj

As on Penguins link, the French weight limits for a bridge etc are round like ours, so the warning triangular ones refered to in the OP are not specifically talking about weight as the primary issue, and I would suggest since signs are Euro wide that it is again vehicle type as I believe ours are?

Several near my in laws in France have, I think from memory, "Sauf deserte locale" under them, which I was told by some of their native friends means the same as our except for local access.

One in particular I know of that has the 3.5 ton lorry sign with the above message under it, is a little tight when our camper meets an artic coming the other way (!), but within that section also has a round prohibitive weight limit of 12 tons on one turn off and 18 on another.

From an earlier post above, once parked up in the Aire do you become a "Riverains?!"

It would be nice to know for definite what it means in this country as well as abroad, but maybe the post holding a sign for no campers, no HGVs, no LGVs, no buses, no coaches, no stretched limos, no tractors, no artics, no combine harvesters and no fire engines would be too unwieldy? 

There isn't one for cars only though?

Mostly signs tell you what you can't do (no lorries for instance) rather than what you can (everything else because the list is too big!). Assuming it applies to you may well be a good, safe option, but it may not be the legally correct one?

Initially we stuck to not passing those signs. Now we pass the ones with Sauf Deserte Locale on them, as we are visiting and French friends tell us that is correct. We never actually visited the town of Orange in our camper, just drove around the edge due to the signage seeming to prevent us at every single road in. But in retrospect, that must have been our misunderstanding, or how does any form of delivery pass the town boundary?!?

I even bought the Guide de la Route by Michelin, but although useful for nervous teenagers, its of limited use to me. Is there a version for larger French vehicles??

Jason



Edited to add for my earlier posts clarification, that my Class C examiner and I were at the time sitting in a 12m long lorry when he said we were legal in the UK to ignore a 3.5 ton HGV only sign, and if I go back and do the Class C+E, I can drive the same truck but with a drawbar combination with trailer having a MAM of 20 tonnes and a length of at least 7.5 metres from coupling eye to extreme rear and a combined length of at least 14 metres. From http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022527

Presumably you can have a PHGV artic too?!?


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Glandwr said:


> I have more than once found myself in a <3.5 tonne area particularly in France. Anyone had problems with being over wt. in such areas? How wary should we be? Size wise we are no bigger than many sub 3.5 tonners and once followed the local (much bigger) bus. Dick


In spite of our in cab warning system (from the passenger seat Mrs O gets VERY excited at the prospect of entering anywhere that might be a bit "tricky" - and her definition of "tricky" is considerably more wide ranging than mine) we have strayed a couple of times into villages where we probably didn't want to be.

First time we hadn't noticed the solitary sign on the way in as we marvelled at the pretty street side cafes bustling with happy laughing people, slowly the realisation that they were waving at us dawned just as the road funnelled down into a narrow turn which was effectively a no through road for our 9 metre motorhome. Got out, smiled, did my best Gallic shrug, got back in and started reversing slowly. Lots more laughter (and some cheers) from the assembled crowd. Mrs O was the most agitated person in town.

Second time we were lost and had driven for about 10 minutes down a small D road with no junctions or obvious turning places when we came upon a small village that had a clear restriction sign at the entrance. Not wanting to reverse for several miles, we progressed through slowly. Overhanging buildings made it very tight on the bends, but we got through the village. Less than 100 metres out the other side we joined a main road to see that access from that end was prohibited to almost everything  .

Generally, we adopt a rule that says, "If we are not sure (based on the signage and common sense), we don't go there."

Regards,
John


----------



## loddy

I like ray nipper have to look out for 3.5 and 7.5 tonne limits.
I find if you get stuck the ladder on the back is good for climbing on the roof to untangle the hanging baskets from my roof air con

Loddy


----------



## gaspode

grizzlyj said:


> Several near my in laws in France have, I think from memory, "Sauf deserte locale" under them, which I was told by some of their native friends means the same as our except for local access.


That's one of the signs I was referring to and assumed it has the meaning you describe. It's good to hear that my translation was correct. There are others I'm sure but can't recall the exact wording, maybe someone else can help?

I've never been pulled up in one of these zones but if challenged would tell the officer that I was looking for the municipal campsite, an explanation that could possibly be plausible in the "riverains" situation too?

An authoritive guide to these signs would be very useful, I wonder if the French Tourist Board could advise us?


----------



## peedee

I have the same problem with the truck (HGV) no overtaking signs. In Germany they are very prolific on the dual carriageways but motorhomes don't seem to take any notice.

peedee


----------



## raynipper

Any good Gaspode......................?

http://www.google.fr/search?q=accès...QORvL2oAw&sqi=2&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1251&bih=637

And

http://pro.expograph.com/boutique/s...vee-pvc.html?gclid=CMO398mzj6gCFUlkfAodii7gCw

Ray.

I'm still looking.


----------



## Glandwr

Authoritive guide <here> I hope Gaspode, in French though I am afraid.

As far as I can see the four signs below (2 from France, 2 UK) confirm that those with pictures of lorries on them apply to goods vehicles only. The others without a lorry apply to all vehicles.

Would be interested in Mr Plodd's opinion on the UK ones anyway.

Dick


----------



## raynipper

Strewth, just about covers everything except 'No Motorhomes'. 

Plenty of limits to car and caravan though. 

Ray.


----------



## Sonesta

Hi Dick,

The above info is really useful to know as my hubby is always quite wary of roads that display such signs and ignorantly, we have always assumed that the weight restriction warning signs applied to all vehicles regardless. So thanks everso for posting this on the forum and I'm sure we will find there will be many ocassions now where we come across roads that we can in fact venture along, that ordinarily we would avoided like the plague. Just goes to prove that you should ALWAYS read the small print doesn't it? 

Thanks again. :thumbright:

Sue


----------



## gromett

Glandwr, thats pretty much how I understand it from talking to a friend who is a Gendarme in Paris and my HGV instructor.

Having said that my new self build is around 3,000KG so no problems any more 

Karl


----------



## rosalan

Dear Gaspode
The 5.5t sign is described in French as...No entry for vehicles, articulated vehicles, trains or double combination of vehicles whose permissible maximum laden weight or gross vehicle weight exceeds the number indicated. 
That does seem pretty clear and unambiguous.
Cheers
Alan


----------



## gaspode

rosalan said:


> Dear Gaspode
> The 5.5t sign is described in French as...No entry for vehicles, articulated vehicles, trains or double combination of vehicles whose permissible maximum laden weight or gross vehicle weight exceeds the number indicated.
> That does seem pretty clear and unambiguous.
> Cheers
> Alan


I'm baffled as to what you're trying to say Alan. :?

Of course the "all vehicles" weight limit sign is plain and unambiguous, that isn't in dispute and has already been acknowledged. It is not the point being debated.

The point being debated is those signs that either refer to "goods vehicles" (véhicules de transport de marchandises) rather than "all vehicles" or those weight restriction signs which include supplementary qualifications such as "Sauf deserte locale" or "Sauf Riverains", their precise meaning and how they apply to motorhomes.


----------



## grizzlyj

Having re-read this thread I must apologise for confusing the 7.5 ton UK sign and the 3.5 ton French version in my postings!

Our camper being 9.5 tons we treat them both in the same way, and we've not driven much in the UK for a while so I was confusing which was where from memory!

Following my Class C test experiences, and now with Glandwr's excellent link above, in both countries I will ignore any limited access sign with a picture of a lorry on it!!

Sorry!

Jason


----------



## rosalan

gaspode said:


> I'm baffled as to what you're trying to say Alan. :?


Sorry young man, I was under the misapprehension that you were seeking a full clarification of the French maximum weight sign, in case there were circumstances where tolerance could be observed. Something a few earlier subscribers to the thread had considered by ignoring the weight limits.
   
Alan


----------



## gaspode

rosalan said:


> Sorry young man


Strewth, it's a long time since someone called me young. 8O :lol:

As you say, some of the early posters on this thread took rather extreme positions, on the one hand being slightly cavalier to the whole question of weight restrictions and on the other hand making the assumption that all was black and white with no grey areas.

As we've now confirmed, there are many circumstances where M/Hs may enter some French weight restrictions quite legally, in fact I suspect that one or two posters who thought they were taking a chance can now rest assured that they're probably not breaking any laws.

As all regular visitors to France will be aware, over the last year or two there has been a rash of weight restriction signs appearing on French roads for the very understandable reason of keeping heavy through traffic out of town centres. As this thread has confirmed, most of these seem to apply only to goods vehicles and furthermore have exemptions for local access. This is very useful info for anyone visiting France in a M/H, hopefully they won't now feel apprehensive about going through the "goods vehicle" xxxxkg limit signs but will know they must keep out of those areas denied to "all vehicles over xxxxkg".


----------



## Mrplodd

Weight restrictions in the UK require a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO)

All the TRO's I have ever come across to deal with weight restrictions clearly state that it is an offence for any person to drive a "Motor vehicle" (note the vehicle description just states motor vehicle!) with a Gross weight in excess of that shown on the sign past that sign! There is never any mention of HGV Goods Vehicle or anything else other than a "Motor Vehicle"". So it applies to all types and classes of vehciles. The sign is the one with the outline of a lorry in it.

If the restriction is due to a weak bridge, culvert etc then the sign will always state that and the logo changes from the one with the lorry in it to one showing a specific weight. The reason for the difference is as follows.

A weight restriction for environmental reasons (to keep trucks out of a town etc) can ONLY be for 7.5 tonnes (or very rarely these days)18 Tonnes (you will never see anything else in the UK) and the sign will have the outline of a lorry with 7.5T or 18T superimposed over it inside the red circle.

UNLESS there is a sign saying "except for access" or "except for loading" then nothing (except a few very specific exceptions such as a fire engine) over the stated weight can proceed past the sign without the driver committing an offence.

If the restriction is due to a weak bridge etc then the restriction can be for ANY specified weight (i.e 5 tonnes or 12.5 tonnes etc) and there MUST be a supplementary plate stating why the restriction is in place. (i.e. weak bridge as in the example a few posts ago) This sign will have the actually weight restriction shown inside the red circle and no logo of a truck

I hope that explains the position in the UK,

I am well aware that others will disagree with me. However part of my job now involves TRO's for the county council so I have very detailed first hand knowledge and experience of TRO legislation.

I do not know if its the same in France but as we are all using the same signs and the traffic laws have been harmonised across the EU I strongly suspect it is. I have a 4 tonne MH and personally I make sure never to pass a 3.5T limit sign in France UNLESS there is the Except for access plate underneath.


----------



## grizzlyj

Mrplodd said:


> Weight restrictions in the UK require a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO)
> 
> All the TRO's I have ever come across to deal with weight restrictions clearly state that it is an offence for any person to drive a "Motor vehicle" (note the vehicle description just states motor vehicle!) with a Gross weight in excess of that shown on the sign past that sign! There is never any mention of HGV Goods Vehicle or anything else other than a "Motor Vehicle"". So it applies to all types and classes of vehciles. The sign is the one with the outline of a lorry in it.
> 
> If the restriction is due to a weak bridge, culvert etc then the sign will always state that and the logo changes from the one with the lorry in it to one showing a specific weight. The reason for the difference is as follows.
> 
> A weight restriction for environmental reasons (to keep trucks out of a town etc) can ONLY be for 7.5 tonnes (or very rarely these days)18 Tonnes (you will never see anything else in the UK) and the sign will have the outline of a lorry with 7.5T or 18T superimposed over it inside the red circle.
> 
> UNLESS there is a sign saying "except for access" or "except for loading" then nothing (except a few very specific exceptions such as a fire engine) over the stated weight can proceed past the sign without the driver committing an offence.
> 
> If the restriction is due to a weak bridge etc then the restriction can be for ANY specified weight (i.e 5 tonnes or 12.5 tonnes etc) and there MUST be a supplementary plate stating why the restriction is in place. (i.e. weak bridge as in the example a few posts ago) This sign will have the actually weight restriction shown inside the red circle and no logo of a truck
> 
> I hope that explains the position in the UK,
> 
> I am well aware that others will disagree with me. However part of my job now involves TRO's for the county council so I have very detailed first hand knowledge and experience of TRO legislation.
> 
> I do not know if its the same in France but as we are all using the same signs and the traffic laws have been harmonised across the EU I strongly suspect it is. I have a 4 tonne MH and personally I make sure never to pass a 3.5T limit sign in France UNLESS there is the Except for access plate underneath.


Hi Mrplodd.

If the TRO you are dealing with applies to every vehicle then why don't you use the round sign such as the weak bridge you refer to?

You say to begin with the sign will apply to all, but will show the outline of a lorry.

You then say if it is to ban lorries for environmental reasons it will say 7.5 tons and show the outline of a lorry!

So both of these signs you are in charge of putting up and positioning have an outline of a lorry, but only one only applies just to lorries??

Either I'm missing something, or everyone who reads your post will disagree with you!

Further more, everyone who has recently taken a driving test, or has recently read the Highway Code will also disagree with you, since that quite clearly shows only one "sign giving orders" with a lorry on it (although the weight and exceptions underneath I'm sure may vary) which says no goods vehicles.

If you and your TRO sign erecting is correct can you please get the Highway Code changed?

And, had you looked at Glandwr's link above, you would know that you can indeed ignore the French equivalent in a 4 ton motorhome.

The signs in the Highway Code are shown here,

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm

and the "signs giving order", round ones that is, are here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070642.pdf

Ta for trying Mrplodd, but you've still lost me!

Jason


----------



## JockandRita

Mrplodd said:


> Weight restrictions in the UK require a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO)
> 
> All the TRO's I have ever come across to deal with weight restrictions clearly state that it is an offence for any person to drive a "Motor vehicle" (note the vehicle description just states motor vehicle!) with a Gross weight in excess of that shown on the sign past that sign! There is never any mention of HGV Goods Vehicle or anything else other than a "Motor Vehicle"". So it applies to all types and classes of vehciles. The sign is the one with the outline of a lorry in it.
> 
> If the restriction is due to a weak bridge, culvert etc then the sign will always state that and the logo changes from the one with the lorry in it to one showing a specific weight. The reason for the difference is as follows.
> 
> A weight restriction for environmental reasons (to keep trucks out of a town etc) can ONLY be for 7.5 tonnes (or very rarely these days)18 Tonnes (you will never see anything else in the UK) and the sign will have the outline of a lorry with 7.5T or 18T superimposed over it inside the red circle.
> 
> UNLESS there is a sign saying "except for access" or "except for loading" then nothing (except a few very specific exceptions such as a fire engine) over the stated weight can proceed past the sign without the driver committing an offence.
> 
> If the restriction is due to a weak bridge etc then the restriction can be for ANY specified weight (i.e 5 tonnes or 12.5 tonnes etc) and there MUST be a supplementary plate stating why the restriction is in place. (i.e. weak bridge as in the example a few posts ago) This sign will have the actually weight restriction shown inside the red circle and no logo of a truck
> 
> I hope that explains the position in the UK,
> 
> I am well aware that others will disagree with me. However part of my job now involves TRO's for the county council so I have very detailed first hand knowledge and experience of TRO legislation.
> 
> I do not know if its the same in France but as we are all using the same signs and the traffic laws have been harmonised across the EU I strongly suspect it is. I have a 4 tonne MH and personally I make sure never to pass a 3.5T limit sign in France UNLESS there is the Except for access plate underneath.


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the input.

A query from me on the above please, is that often a bus route, or a school transport contract route can be accessed along a 7.5T restriction, thereby excluding PSVs/PCVs. A small narrow bridge in our neighbourhood has such a restriction on it, supported by round prohibitive signage, with a 7.5T weight on a black HGV background, but is still accessible by PSVs/PCVs. 
Also, at my previous address which was in a 7.5T restriction using the same signage, the P/boro City Council's traffic department tried to prevent me parking the coach in that area. They failed, when I was able to prove that it was a PSV/PCV, and not an HGV/LGV, as the whole estate was on a bus route.
Admittedly, that was some years ago, and I do appreciate that laws/rules may have changed, or have since been amended. :wink:

Grateful for your input.

Regards,

Jock.


----------



## Glandwr

No doubt a bureaucratic mix-up but I don’t think there is any doubt Mr Plodd. If you are right then the Highway Code is wrong.  

Kind regards Dick


----------



## Mrplodd

SACK CLOTH AND ASHES TIME ​
Just re-checked the wording on TRO's on returning to work and I got it WRONG   & 

The 7.5 tonne weight limit signs with the lorry on refer ONLY to heavy goods vehicles exceeding that weight.

Once again sincere apologies to all.

I will now retreat under my stone!!! Just shows how much attention I actually pay when writing the darn things out     

(Unable to edit original post !!)


----------



## JockandRita

Mrplodd said:


> clipped.....Once again sincere apologies to all.


Accepted with grace Andy. :wink: It takes a decent person to hold up their hand when they are wrong. :thumbleft:

Cheers,

Jock.


----------



## grizzlyj

Mrplodd in my opinion you are a brave man owning up to your profession somewhere like this, as it will put you in the firing line!

My postings often seem to be a little more robust, or blunt perhaps, than others in some cases, and in this instance I felt if you saw me driving past the 7.5 ton lorry sign I would be on the receiving end of a summons (or whatever). You thought you were right, I thought I was right, but I'd end up with points etc unless I went to court.

Thank you for taking the time to be sure, and owning up in the clarification!

I think I will now definitely be able to visit Ambleside and all its cake shops (which has such a sign coming from Windemere from memory) with total confidence!


Well done Sir!

Jason


----------

