# Trying to find the 'next van'



## Steamdrivenandy

For months now I've been agonising over what the 'next van' will be.

A week or so ago I visited Vantage Motorhomes in Leeds and had a look over their very impressive Max RL, but came to the conclusion that if we were to have a Max it would have to be the Fixed Bed version with dog crates under the bed. That meant a layout v similar to Adria Twin, Hymer Car, and loads of other vans with very little habitation room 'cos the bed takes up so much of it. 

Then I happened to browse the new, much improved Timberland website and spotted the Endeavour/Destiny Xll layout with a pair of 2ft wide bunks across the rear. A phone call confirmed that they could remove the bunks and provide the 2ft deep space for a dog crate as we have now. Even better, the Renault based Endeavour could come with an auto gearbox. They kindly emailed me details of two used Endeavours they had in stock. One was an '07 with only 1,500 miles, an auto box and lots of toys @£43K and the other a different layout '05 model, with 10,000 miles, manual and even more toys for £40K. Whilst all very nice, those used prices stuck in my throat and I decided to look elsewhere.

I argued to myself that the bigger PVCs had wider side doors and if I could find a four seater there should be space between the two rows of seats to fit a dog crate which could be removed when pitched. Our current van only has 18ins between seat rows which isn't enough for a crate. We're used to shuffling the four seats into a bed at night so that's not really a problem. This search led me to the good old Autosleeper Symbol ES. I haven't look at one in detail yet, but I suspect the space between the seats will be more than the 2ft needed, so all well and good.

That was until this weekend's trip to Crufts with just our boy beardie Jack in the van for our overnight at Warwick CC. He was a happy enough boy, but it was noticeable that he missed Rosie our other beardie and his constant companion since he was 10 weeks old. In the evening he retired to the crate across the back of the van and it took a lot of coaxing to get him out. He was enjoying being miserable in there. That reminded us that Rosie loves her crate in the van and will invariably spend the night curled up in her half even though the crate door is wide open. So, the idea of throwing the crate out of the van and folding it away when on site has, sort of, lost appeal as it's v obvious the dogs really do like and value their metal mesh 'caves'.

So it's back to Plan A. Has anyone got a Timberland Endeavour XII auto with low mileage going at less than the annual income of a small east European state?

Andy


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## Zebedee

Hi Andy

You may already know of this (or may not be interested) but there's a small firm "_oop north_" somewhere that will do a bespoke conversion to almost any suitable panel van. You can even supply your own van for them, and according to my mate who has seen their work they make a very good job of it. He was mightily impressed by both the workmanship and the very reasonable price, and is thinking of going that route himself. He says they can offer a very wide range of alternative layouts - based on "standard" fitments to keep the costs within reason, as a fully hand-built bespoke job would cost as much as an entire small East European state!!

They usually source and use second hand vans, but not very old and "carefully selected" whatever that's worth, but would convert a new one I expect.

If you are interested I'll get the details for you to have a snoop yourself.

Regards


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## Steamdrivenandy

I'd be interested in finding out who they are Dave.

I've exchanged an email with Nu Venture who have said they're able to do a rear crate layout but I haven't gone into detail with them yet. I know several members of MHF have spoken highly of their Calletta conversion. 

Somebody else on here was having a 10,000 mile automatic Movano (which is the same as the Renault Master) turned into a motorhome by another firm in the Wigan area, I can't remember the details but I'm sure I could find them again with a search.

It might be a good route to go down, thanks for the reminder mate.

Andy


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## peejay

Hi Andy;

There is a German convertor that make conversions with dog specific areas called Joko.

I'm not sure if they import to UK and probably not in RHD but at least you could get some layout ideas if you go down the bespoke conversion route.

The Joko 480 + Hund looks a good layout, under 6m with 2 singles at the rear and a Dog area in the dinette...










http://www.joko-wohnmobil.de

:hotos::

:DF Download for the Joko-480::

::and the shorter Joko-420::

pete


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## Steamdrivenandy

Many thanks for the Joko post Pete. I wish I could understand more than rudimentary German.

Looking at the photo's you found I guess they use the space for the dinette seats for the 'hundebox'. This means it would be about 42ins wide by 24ins deep by 21ins high which would be fine for smaller dogs.

Our current crate is a snug fit between the trimmed wheel arches of the Tranny (55ins) and is 24ins deep and 28ins high. It has a removable divider in the middle so each dog gets 27ins by 24ins floorspace which is OK for a grown beardie but not too generous. I'm afraid the Joko crate would be too small, unless we change breeds :lol: :lol: :lol: 

It's certainly got me thinking though.

Andy


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## pepandspice

Steamdrivenandy said:


> I'd be interested in finding out who they are Dave.
> 
> I've exchanged an email with Nu Venture who have said they're able to do a rear crate layout but I haven't gone into detail with them yet. I know several members of MHF have spoken highly of their Calletta conversion.
> 
> Somebody else on here was having a 10,000 mile automatic Movano (which is the same as the Renault Master) turned into a motorhome by another firm in the Wigan area, I can't remember the details but I'm sure I could find them again with a search.
> 
> It might be a good route to go down, thanks for the reminder mate.
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy, Vanmaster are in Wigan, was it them you were thinking of?
Dawn.


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## Steamdrivenandy

Hiyah Dawn,

I hope you're not getting too much of a battering from the storm over there.

I'd forgotten about Vanmaster, but it wasn't them I was thinking of, it was Acorn Leisure. I'm not even sure if they're in Wigan as when I checked their website there's only a phone no. I'm never keen on dealing with a company that doesn't give an address 8O 

It's quite a little hotbed of converters in Wigan, what with both the Nu Venture companies. What is that all about? Two businesses with similar names in the same town. Sounds like somebody had a hissy fit years back and they can't get over it.

The one I'm concentrationg on now is the Nu Venture Motorhomes people who make the Caletta, Rio's, Surf, Wave etc. Several members have been v complimentary about them and their products so we'll see what they have to say for themselves.

Andy


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## ingram

Andy, a couple of other converters that you may or may not know about:

Rainbow Conversions, ( Somewhere in Cambridgeshire I think )

O'Leary, near Beverley / Hull.

This is not a recommendation as I have never used them for this purpose.

Harvey


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## pepandspice

Steamdrivenandy said:


> Hiyah Dawn,
> 
> I hope you're not getting too much of a battering from the storm over there.
> 
> I'd forgotten about Vanmaster, but it wasn't them I was thinking of, it was Acorn Leisure. I'm not even sure if they're in Wigan as when I checked their website there's only a phone no. I'm never keen on dealing with a company that doesn't give an address 8O
> 
> It's quite a little hotbed of converters in Wigan, what with both the Nu Venture companies. What is that all about? Two businesses with similar names in the same town. Sounds like somebody had a hissy fit years back and they can't get over it.
> 
> The one I'm concentrationg on now is the Nu Venture Motorhomes people who make the Caletta, Rio's, Surf, Wave etc. Several members have been v complimentary about them and their products so we'll see what they have to say for themselves.
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy, re the two Nu Venture companies, I believe you are correct in this theory.

We did visit the company that produces the Caletta before we bought our first van conversion but we decided to buy a used Tribute for starters. The company were situated near to Wigan Pier, the tourist attraction. From memory they will convert your choice of van(used or new) and they appear to be to a good standard, very well thought out.

We have also visited the other Nu venture company and Vanmaster who also offer bespoke conversions.

Re: Vantage - we saw their vans at Gmex in January of this year and liked them very much but I was a little concerned at the heat generating in the wardrobe from the electrics. At that time, our Tio had electrics in the wardrobe but we had plenty of ventilation, which I could'nt detect in the vantage. 
As you know we decided to purchase another IH.
Have you looked at the Citivan 57g only 5.68 metres long and 2.05 metres wide, has a 'a' class drop down bed, half dinette, rear garage bed and also appears to have internal access to the garage. Just a thought!
Lets know how you get on Andy.

Dawn/Steve


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## Greggy

La Strada Trento or Pronto ? 

The Pronto is on my list for a looky see.

Cheers,

Greg.


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## Zebedee

Hi Andy

Finally got the name of the firm I mentioned earlier.  >>Here<< 

Don't know if it will be any use to you, but they seem pretty flexible and reasonably priced.

Cheers


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## smick

*What van next*

Andy,

For info

We have had quite a lot of conversations with Vanmaster in connection with our HRZ. They will do a conversion which takes into account specific wishes, though the cost would be quite high. ( Look at £35K plus) They will also convert on any van suitable.

The quality of what we saw was very good, but because of that, the time factor might be rather longer than you want. I know their current order book is 9 months ahead.

Worth ringing to confirm that there would be someone to talk to you if you decide to call, because all the sales force also work on the shop floor - which is probably soemthing to be applauded!

Smick


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## Steamdrivenandy

*Re: What van next*



smick said:


> Andy,
> 
> For info
> 
> We have had quite a lot of conversations with Vanmaster in connection with our HRZ. They will do a conversion which takes into account specific wishes, though the cost would be quite high. ( Look at £35K plus) They will also convert on any van suitable.
> 
> The quality of what we saw was very good, but because of that, the time factor might be rather longer than you want. I know their current order book is 9 months ahead.
> 
> Worth ringing to confirm that there would be someone to talk to you if you decide to call, because all the sales force also work on the shop floor - which is probably soemthing to be applauded!
> 
> Smick


Now then Smicky is that you in the roof bed of the Holiday Dream in the violent pink trousers? 8O 8O 8O

Seriously, I may have known this and forgotten, but what have Vanmaster got to do with HRZ, And aren't/weren't HRZ a make of trials motorbike?

Andy


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## smick

*Next van*

Oh No Andy, my bedroom attire is far more fetching than that ! Pinks not my colour at all !

Vanmaster were planning to import the HRZ as a top of the range model to sell over the top of their own conversion, but after ordering two, they decided that it wasn't going to work in the UK market. Keith Ma****er (SuperK) bought the first, and we discovered that the second was still sitting in Germany, and arranged to buy it from Vanmaster. It took quite a time to get the deal sorted, but what we have we like, and it works well for us & two collies. However, we go with harnesses rather than cages, so there is a bit more space to play with.

There are quite a few vans in the CS Reisemobile range which would lend themselves to doggery storage, but you need to have an arm & leg type budget to go with that.

Smick

P.S Think you're thinking of CZ trials bikes - not HRZ!


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## Steamdrivenandy

Ah you might be right about CZ. I'm no trials fan, I just had a distant memory from decades ago of dear departed Raymond Baxter on dear departed Grandstand and for some reason I can hear him saying HRZ. Praps not.

Talking of Grandstand I used to love those trials of military vehicles around swamps and hills they used to have. Presumably we haven't enough Army left to stage such things these days  

HRZ do seem to have a helluva range, think of a PVC layout and they've done it. Are they really muchos euros?

Andy


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## smick

Last time I looked at new prices, it seemed that C. 87K Euros was the average price for any HRZ model.....Not sure if CS Reisemobile are cheaper, but I wouldn't have thought so.

Another firm you might try are Stephens Coachbuilders, who convert on medium/long wheelbase Sprinters - they're near Harrogate I think.

Smick


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## Superk

We just got back from a six month trip in our HRZ - down through French/Italian Alps then west of Italy into Sicily where we spent most of the time then back up the eastern side of Italy to end up at Calais where the winds were blowing the rain lashing and the ferries canceled. We paid and arm and a leg to go 'chunnel'. 67 different stopovers (loads of wild camping) and some twice. Trading down from a 33-foot RV plus towed car to 5.64 metre van we wondered whether and it would provoke a divorce on such a trip but we have survived and think the van is the best thing we have done. We took it over the highest passes, through the narrowest medieval streets and down the roughest of roads and it performed superbly - not a rattle or squeak anywhere - and 28.5 mpg for the whole trip. I was wary about changing so had to get it right for us - separate shower to toilet, separate vanity, fixed full size (drop-down lengthwise bed), 150 litre water and 105 litre waste tanks, 2x13Kg Gaslows, 150 amp battery, 2000 watt inverter, Gasperini LPG DC generator (fixed underneath) - great bit of kit - starts automatically when battery drops below preset level and recharges it. Still can't believe how it all gets in there - very comfortable diner and swivel lounging seats and fully weather-proofed - all tanks and storage inboard and heated. Also nothing puncturing the roof and only side punctures are the windows and small holes for diesel, water, and Gaslow fill and heater exhaust so van integrity means no leaks.
Regards
Keith


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## geraldandannie

Out of interest, Keith - which model of HRZ do you have?

Gerald


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## Steamdrivenandy

smick said:


> Last time I looked at new prices, it seemed that C. 87K Euros was the average price for any HRZ model.....Not sure if CS Reisemobile are cheaper, but I wouldn't have thought so.
> 
> Another firm you might try are Stephens Coachbuilders, who convert on medium/long wheelbase Sprinters - they're near Harrogate I think.
> 
> Smick


Can't say I've heard of Stephens Coachbuilders round here. I've checked the Harrogate and York Yellow Pages but no sign.

Andy


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## Steamdrivenandy

Hold hard I think I've found them.

http://www.stephens-motorhomes.co.uk

They're down at Featherstone where the Rovers come from, in sort of IH Camper land.

I'll have a word.

Andy


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## Superk

Gerald:

Being away six months and little Internetting I've forgotten how to do the quotes thingy  

The model I have is the Holiday Dream on a Sprinter RHD.

Keith


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## geraldandannie

Superk said:


> Being away six months and little Internetting I've forgotten how to do the quotes thingy


 :lol: No worries, Keith :wink:

:: Here :: is some information that I was looking at earlier. I like the idea of a full washroom, and a pull-down bed.

NOT that we're looking for a new van, you understand (just in case my wife's watching  ) At some point in the future, a downsize might be needed, with a reduction to a single vehicle. Of course, with the bed, you can't have one person a'kip and one reading / watching telly / on the internet 'downstairs', can you?

Gerald


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## Steamdrivenandy

Presumably the RHD was a special order?
Was your feeling that they would happily do others?

Andy


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## smick

Aah, Geraldand Annie, that's the beauty of the HRZ - with the bd down, one can still say up and read downstairs.

I think one would have to go and talk direct to HRZ - the relationship they had with Vanmaster seems to have fallen apart.

And welcome home Keith - we put our faith in your judgement on the HRZ, and it's working out fine.

Smick


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## smick

And if I could type a bit more efficiently, it would read: "with the bed down, one can still stay up and read downstairs" !!!


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## Superk

As Smick says because the van steps up inside to the kitchen area you can happily sit downstairs and read if the other half has retired early or, on the contrary stay in bed whilst the other half lays the breakfast table :lol: So you can walk around under the bed in a slightly stooped fashion until you get to the steps going to the kitchen when a more pronounced stoop is momentarily required. Again because the kitchen area is raised to ascend to the bed only two steps are needed (they pull out from the in-between the drawers so no storage is required). Because the bed is lengthways one doesn't have to climb over your partner to descend although it's difficult to exit without some disturbance. The raised area provides the underneath storage.


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## catzontour

Superk said:


> Trading down from a 33-foot RV plus towed car to 5.64 metre van
> Keith


Hi Keith - what is the storage like or did you just have to chuck loads of things out when you downsized?

Sue


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## Superk

> Hi Keith - what is the storage like or did you just have to chuck loads of things out when you downsized?
> 
> Sue


Gosh what a question 8O A lot of stuff we didn't need anymore. Hoses for the macerator or waste dumps. Lots of water hose and electrical cable in case we couldn't manouevre near the points. Waste hog in case we couldn't get near the dump. It's amazing what you think you might need and take just in case. If you want to know how we got on in the RV check my website.  We downsized the chairs and table but do have them. Clothes required some re-thinking rather than bunging everything in for all weathers. OK the fridge and probably the cupboard space (?) isn't as big so we shop more often - easy to do we just drive there in the van or shop en-route. The van is double-floored so loads of stuff can go underneath - I carefully picked plastic crates to fit - like a jigsaw and one of them just carries books. The underfloor area can be accessed from inside or through the rear doors. There's another useful vertical storage area to the side of the van at the rear.
It all worked very well for our first six months and we didn't feel we wanted to change anything in fact we couldn't think of anything we would change. Its interesting to watch people's reactions as they progress from outside 'You live in that for six months' to 'That's amazing we don't have a shower as big as that.'
Probably think of more later - hope that helps.
Keith


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## catzontour

Thanks for all that Keith. Just wondered how you'd managed to squeeze everything in.

Sue


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## smick

Have to admit that we managed to get in moreorless everything we had in our Hymer 640, and still had space left over !

We have now refined the load a bit, and are carrying only two of everything !

Smick


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## Steamdrivenandy

Evening Smick,

Glad to hear that you travel prepared although only two bottles of wine on board at a time seems a bit risky :lol: :lol: 

I've spoken tonight to Stephen of Stephens Motorhomes and judging by his prices for fitting out he could be a good candidate for producing Steamvan 2, albeit based on a Sprinter, rather than a Tranny. Now we've just got to find a recent used Splinter automatic with aircon and in that nice blue like this:


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## Broko

*van conversion*

If you are round there try EMC of Knottingley. Not far from IH. They did my roof conversion and will do anything on any van or will supply one for you. I think they were in a recent magazine about a gassless van.
Foundry Lane Knottingley


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## Steamdrivenandy

I remember the article about the gassless van. It was only a couple of months back.
EMC seem to have disappeared off the internet.
Mauramac was trying to find them back in October last year but I don't think she had any luck.
Sounds like they've gone out of business, which is strange after so much positive publicity on a innovative concept.

Andy


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## catzontour

smick said:


> Have to admit that we managed to get in moreorless everything we had in our Hymer 640, and still had space left over !
> 
> We have now refined the load a bit, and are carrying only two of everything !
> 
> Smick


I find this very encouraging for when the time comes for us to downsize :lol: :lol:


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