# No Planning!!!!



## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

After a bad few months in work and the future, in terms of my current employment looking bleak, although this might work in my favour for other reasons we have decided to take just over 3 weeks off.

The older 2 children are staying at home and the younger 2 are coming with us.

Purchased our van last May and have been on a number of weekend trips over the winter and of course our very well organised, very well planned trip down to Spain last summer.

This, motorhoming, being my only real hobby and, sad has it might sound, MHF people being the only "non" work people I really talk too (text) and the wife on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays and the kids when they want money

So, after purchasing every book you can think of regarding campsites, Aires de Service etc in France we have decided to go to Germany, Italy and Croatia (I haven't got any books on any of these countries.

Over the last few evenings I have been planning in detail route options, stop overs, looking to pre-book, will it take us 3 nights to get down to Venice or 4, shall we go through Austria (and the Go box) or through Switzerland (with their day charge for anything over 3500Kg)

Boy, it is getting so technical, no, I have decided this morning after reading a number of posts on this site is just to go, we are not going to book, we are just going to drive and plan it as it goes, if it takes 4 or 5 days to get down to Venice and then on to Croatia who cares, I have spent all my working life planning!!!

So, I have booked the Eurostar train thing for 2pm on the 2nd Aug and return on the 23rd
(interesting point on the train route, Norfolk lines would have been cheaper att £88 return for 4 of us and a 5000Kg van but we wanted to flexibility of the train times. However, I note that the "cheap" over night train crossings are quite expensive compare to last Year in fact the cheapest time for us to travel out is at 2pm on the 2nd August)

So, does this make me a proper motorhomer now, just up and go with no real plans?

So, any advice, routes etc then please feel free to post just in case!!!

Kind regards
Hugh


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## 2point (Jun 10, 2005)

Being new to this too not any specific advice but love the attitude. Our holidays for the past 5 years have been to Florida and have been planned months in advance. The sheer freedom of just winging it for the last 3 weeks in France was the perfect stress buster.

Have a great trip, having Autoroute on the PC with GPS was a lifesaver for us, no hassle with maps and dodgy roadsigns, just follow the instructions, however unlikey they may seem. One turning took us down what looked like the approach to a farmhouse, then turned onto a single track road that was lined with houses built into the rockface of the ravine we were travelling along. Fantastic to just come across somewhere like this, if we were using the map we would have just stuck to the main road and missed one of the small things that made our holiday one of the best ever.

Enjoy.


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## bognormike (May 10, 2005)

Hugh, 
we did the trip down to croatia in sept 04, and opted fro the swiss route as we were over 3.5 tons. We cheated and paid for the vignette, but if you're just passing through, tell them you are over 3.5 tons and pay the 25 swiss francs minimum charge, or pay a bit extra to get your return trip included. We did overnights in Belgium, southern switzerland, and just past venice. Have a look at my log in the Journal section - (search for all journals, and find mine). There's details of stopoffs etc as well, and some photos in my photo section.
Anything else PM me


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Thanks Bognormike

Sound like a similar route that came up from my autoroute software avoiding most, not all tolls, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany, Basel and down through Switzerland

I shall check out your Journal

Many thanks
Hugh


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## chrisgog (May 17, 2005)

Heading for the channel on Sunday and do not know where and when we will go or stop. That is the beauty of it all.
Will visit Annecy in France probably as that has had some good reviews on MHF.
We never plaN, I am a teacher, I HATE PLANNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

Personally I like to pick out a few places that I'd like to see en route and then just wander in that general direction - we often don't even get to see the places I'd chosen. Inevitably you will bump into some places you would never have put in your plan (some good, some bad) but that's what travelling is all about.
You will very quickly get the feel of campsite availability and know the right time of day to start looking for somewhere to stay.
I used to worry sometimes about getting it all properly planned and organised until I met a retired 72 year old Australian couple on the, what was then Yugoslavia, coast road - we had planned every inch of our trip to reach that point from the UK - they had not planned a thing and had left home (Sydney) 3 years prior and were still just wandering in the general direction of NW.
Now I don't plan and I don't worry.
Enjoy


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Is it work or is it personality thing that some of us feel inclined to make sure, more or less, every detail is known before embarking on a journey?


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## Tucano (Jun 9, 2006)

Hugh,

The best of luck with your holiday, hope it all goes to your unplan,


Norman , green, green, green,


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## TonyHunt (Oct 10, 2005)

Chrisgog. Look out for us Sunday at Dover. Sailing on the 1-30pm Sea france crossing in our Bessacarr towing a green vauxhall Agila on A frame. 
We have no plans either other than were heading for Germany and the mosel region. Probably spend a few days in France on the way. Have five weeks to laze around


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## 92046 (May 1, 2005)

*Planning*

Hi to all

1999 = 100% pre planned and booked, 6000 miles, France, Switzerland, & Spain, (the long route)

2000 = 50% pre planned

2001 = 10% of the route pre planned, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England, France, yes Ireland, (the long route again)

2002 = No planning, no pre booking, France

2003 = No planning, no pre booking, France

2004 = No planning, no pre booking, UK & France, 13.000 miles

2005 = No planning, no pre booking, France & Belgium,

2006 = No planning, no pre booking, France & UK, only short holiday, but will have another in September.

Have never been lost, just turned down a few roads and visited a few places I had not intended to visit,

My sister came on trip to France in 2004, she got all wound up when we missed a turning and started to panic, I pulled over, closed the map, put it in the back, and said if anyone gets wound up, it is not a holiday, we are traveling south so we follow the sun, but the sun sets in the west was the reply, ok we don't travel after 1500hrs and zig zag down through France, that way we see more places, and had a fantastic holiday for 6 weeks in France, """But never got lost"""


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi Hugh,

I think you made the best plan ever: Not to plan anything! :wink: 

Since we are motorhoming we have never planned or booked anything in advance, except ferry crossings if needed.

Before motorhoming we were travelling with a tent, and did it exactly in the same way. Interrupted by the occasional hire boat holiday, where boat reservation was the only planned thing.

Holiday and planning/pre-booking, for us this is almost a contradiction in terms.

Best Regards and enjoy your trip!
Gerhard


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## tonyt (May 25, 2005)

TonyHunt said:


> We have no plans either other than were heading for Germany and the mosel region.


Now I'm going to contradict myself - the Mosel from Koblenz down to Trier is definitely on my autumn trip plan.  Very close to Paradise


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

Well that's great, gives me more confidence to know there are many other "unplanners" out there.

I assume the same unplanners are still un-planned in August?

Hugh


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

"Planning means to replace coincidence by misapprehension!" :wink: 

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## 96556 (Oct 21, 2005)

tonyt said:


> TonyHunt said:
> 
> 
> > We have no plans either other than were heading for Germany and the mosel region.
> ...


Couldnt agree more. We lived there for three years, well within 30 mins drive that is, at a town called Birkenfeld. Used to drive down to the Mosel at Traben-Trabach for waffles and coffee on a Sunday. Mmm can remember it now.

Good luck with your holiday. We are leaving Guernsey on 1st september and embarking on an extended trip. Going to Uk for a month to 6 weeks and then onto the continent. No prior planning apart from when we decide to move on from an area and need to choose a direction.

Thats the plan anyway

Dave & Lorraine Le Huray


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## fdhadi (May 9, 2005)

Ferry booked 29/7/06 Dover / Calais.

After that, well will go either south, east or west?
In fact, think it will be south west this time, maybe Portugal or even just Spain, then again might just stay in France.

What route will i take? The one that goes sw of course.
What campsites? Not sure, got books here full of them.

I no what is booked, the ferry back 2 wks later.

At easter, did

Dover / Calais, then on to Dusseldorf, Berlin, Dresden, Prague, Nuremburg, Bingen, up the Rhine into Belguim then back to Calais.
Did want to go to Poland, but only had 10 days, 2,400 miles later.
Both ferries were booked though.

Just go for it :wink: .


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## 94969 (May 1, 2005)

Dear All 
We hope to do the August Bank Hol. in Pembroke then travel onto the continent for the Dusseldorf m/h show, via Dunkirk.
then further into Germany Dortmund, Soest, Mohnesee, Kassel, Dresden, Meissen and Colditz. maybe if time allows down to Prague.

Well thats the plan, if you can call it a plan. no ferry or tunnel booked as yet.

If you know of any good aires/camp sites on route, please tell.


Roy and Helen.


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## 89235 (May 17, 2005)

We've been travelling in Europe for almost 6 months now and nothing was pre booked except for the ferry which we booked 2 days before we left!

We have yet to be turned away from a full campsite or an aire and haven't been moved on from any wild camps even though some expressly said no motorhomes overnight - thought we would pretend not to speak any other language than English and hope to shrug a lot and get away with it!

Have noticed that campsites are fillinmg up a lot more in the last couple of weeks, but we are currently on a huge aire at Les Gets in the Alps and there are only 4 other vans here!

We have no time restraints, so are sitting it out on aires in France until end of Aug - you may find some of the campsites in Croatia more than a little busy!

We have just come out of Switzerland. You can buy a motorway pass for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes at the border crossing. 3.25 Swiss francs per day or 58 for a whole month. We did a little walking and climbing in Switzerland, but it is the only place we wish we had been a bit more organised about. If you intend to use any of the cable cars or mountain railways be sure to check where you want to go and how many you want to use as it it can be cheaper to buy a multi pass. Although campsites weren't expensive, cable cars compared to France were! We had 3 days in Zermatt with unlimited use of the lifts for 168 Swiss francs each. This sounds expensive, but if we had bought individual tickets it would have been nearly 350 each! You have to pay for showers on lots of Swiss sites too  I find this really iritating!

We may end up in Croatia at the beginning of September, but then again, we may not!

Whatever you do have a great time - a bad few months at work for us resulted in this year away!

Rachel & Andrew


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## BERTHA (May 21, 2005)

*Part 2 - underway*

Well we are underway,

Left last Wednesday (2nd Aug) arrived purposely too early at Euro Tunnel Ashford at 11:45hrs although we were booked on the 14:35hrs the automatic machine offered us some earlier times and by 12:35 we were loaded on the train and pulling away.

By 14:30hrs (french time) we were on the motorway heading for Belgium, the weather was appalling, heavy rain showers but we didn't really care.

Using the pushpins downloaded from this site and making easy progress we headed towards the northern part of Brussels and found a simple campsite for our first night.

Heavy rain over night and thunder and lightning storms disturbed our sleep but again didn't really mind

The following morning headed South towards luxembourg roads quite busy although we kept a constant speed although heavy showers slowed traffic a little.

Travelled down through Luxenbourg and filled up with fuel has its cheaper than in France.

Continued from Luxembourg to Metz then on to Nancy then on to Colmar.

Got off the motorway at Colmar to take the back roads to Mulhouse with the purpose of finding a campsite as the downloaded pushpins showed a number of sites including Aires.

We drove through one village and seen our first ever Aires sign so we decided to follow it. within 100 yards of the town there was 5 parking slots with Water, Dump and electric all for 7 euro.
We did not stop but continued.

Further on we went through another small town that give no access to any motorised veichle but again, found a sign pointing us to a Aires just behind the village. there we about 40 Motorhomes already parked up so we continued.

We eventually found a lovely campsite about 10 miles South West of Colmar where we stayed for the night

So far we had not paid a single toll and quite pleased that we were not far from Basil and of course the Swiss border.

The following day we left the site around 10am with the aim to be near Lake Lucerne by mid afternoon.

We were pulled over at the Swiss border because of our weight (5000Kg) and went to the border Police office to complete a confusing form (not least because there is no English version) after about 20 mins pondering how to complete the form I noticed on the wall that there were framed copies explaining how to complete in many langauges including English.

However, I still incorrectly completed the form and thanks to the friendly officer who pointed out that because I was only passing through Switzerland it would be cheaper for me to buy 10 days to be used over a month than 3 days now and another 3 days when we came back through the boarder in a few weeks time

So, after handing over 33 SF and a date stamped form we entered Switerland.

Within 50 yards of the border crossing we hit our first major traffic Q. There is major road works around Basel and it took us over an hour to clear Basel and start heading South to Lucerne

Feeling more confident about not having pre-booked every campsite we had arrived in the wonderful lake side city of Lucerne much earlier than expected.

So, looking at the map we decided to detour for a few hours and come back to Lucerne later in the day as we spotted a campsite next to the lake and a short walk from the town so we thought we would take a small detour to see if we could spot the mountain known has the Eiger.

We head South on the A2 on the East side of Lake Lucerne until reaching the bottom of the lake where we would turn North and up the other side until we reached the turn off for the A8 towards Interlaken.

This turned out to be quite a hard drive and although most of the time the many tunnels we passed through saved a lot of time there was one point where we had no choice but to climb a long climb and decent a mountain pass sometimes dropping down in to first gear.
On coming down the otherside and despite using low gears the brakes were over heating.

Still, once the otherside we made good progress and we passed through the "real" Switzerland" which was breath taking to say the least

We turned off the A8 at Matten and took a decent road up towards the Eiger but we missed the turning and found ourselves heading for Gimmerwald, wonderful scenery and at the end of this road there it was, the Jungfrau mountain standing at over 4158 m (approx 14000 feet) we had a drink and then headed back down the road and took the left folk we should have taken to get to the front of the Eiger.

Anyway, we headed back down the road for several miles until we came to the turn off for Grindelwald passing over a fast moving river, we started our climb.

The road is not to difficult and the scenery that follows you is fantastic even the river with boulders the size of buses is never far from you.

We arrived in Grindelwald at the same time has the rain and on parking up in the traditional but quite commercial village we stepped out of the van to be greeted but 2 colossal black walls the tops of which we could not see, they towered over the village like some menacing giants.

We could see up to the snow line but not the peaks, it was now 6 pm so we decided to get something to eat before heading back to Lucerne.

We eat outside but under cover, which is just as well because the rain came down so heavy it was hard to see across the valley to the Eiger. However, after the rain easied the cloud cover cleared from around the Eiger long enough for us to just work out that what we had seen so far had only been the bottom half of the mountain.

We headed back to the car park around 9pm and started heading back down the pass towards the A8 and then on to Lucerne but the rain came down heavy so I pulled in to a small village car park not wanting to cross the mountain pass in this weather and in such darkness it was bad enough in the light.

Around 1am I woke to find the rain had stopped and the clouds had lifted so while everyone was still asleep I thought I would at least get back to Lucerne.

It was not pleasant but within the hour I had cleared the pass and back on to major roads heading towards Lucerne.

I drove through Lucerne and on crossing the bridge heading south I pulled in to a major parking area for cars and buses etc and settled down for a few more hours sleep

By 6am I was back on the road heading South down the A2 towards the Gothard Tunnel and Italy.
Even at this time of the morning the motorway was busy with German and Dutch drivers all heading south.

There are traffic lights just before you enter the Gothard tunnel which change every few minutes this is to space the traffic out inside the tunnel which is around 10 miles long.

There were quite long tail backs at the border but once I reached there I was supposed to pull over and get my toll thing stamped but they just waved us through and I didn't feel inclined with such heavy traffic having a debate with the local customs people so I am likely to have problems on my return.

Anyway, we were soon over the border and heading down to Milan, we stopped for food and then continued heading towards Venice.

The stretch between Milan and Venice is a toll road but it was not the cost that got to us but the 90 min traffic Q getting through the toll was an absolute nightmare.

Once through we headed over the top of Venice to Jeselo and then along the 10 mile finger that sticks out pointing in to the gulf of Venice

This strip of land is a motorhomers haven. The whole area is protected so no massive build up of hotels etc but loads and loads of campsites many with beach access.
More than this, we counted at least 60 motorhomes parked up for the night in car parks or in tree covered areas or along beach side roads.

Nukeman had mentioned he had stayed at the very end of this piece of land so rather than take the first campsite we seen we drove to the very end to Punta Sabbioni. 
Here was found a campsite which was only a 100 yard walk to the water buses that take you over to Venice and only a 500 yard walk to large, flat sandy beaches.

We booked in for 3 nights. so Yesterday to give the kids a break we went down to the beach where there was so much space, the water shallow for about 50 yards out and the weather warm.

Today, we have just got back from Venice, fantastic day out, very expensive but worth every penny, one of those, been there done that type of experiences, although £300 lighter.

We were going to move off to Croatia tomorrow but someone forgot to order a Green Card (me) and it will take, I am told, 5 to 7 days before it gets to us.

So, we are having to change our plans now, tomorrow we are either going to be heading towards Rome or west towards Monaco bit of a shame really.

We might even do some wild camping but overall the not planning has been quite relaxing except for the bloody green card of course

Update you soon
Hugh


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks for that update, Hugh. Sounds like a great adventure you're having.

I was particularly interested in the piece about Venice. Went there last year on a long weekend break, going this year on a short weekend break for my birthday. Next year, we'll be visiting Italy, so we might well follow in your wheeltracks..

Gerald


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

This will be your best holiday yet Hugh !

Just go with the flow....too hot ?go north, too crowded ? go inland..too expensive ?...change country.

Too often a pre-planned itinerary becomes a millstone and you panic to keep up and are disappointed with the sites you have waited all year to see. The best things we have ever seen or done have been the ones we didn't even know existed until a few hours before !

Enjoy...

G


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## 94969 (May 1, 2005)

''We hope to do the August Bank Hol. in Pembroke then travel onto the continent for the Dusseldorf m/h show, via Dunkirk. 
then further into Germany Dortmund, Soest, Mohnesee, Kassel, Dresden, Meissen and Colditz. maybe if time allows down to Prague.

Well thats the plan, if you can call it a plan. no ferry or tunnel booked as yet. '' 

DUNKIRK BEACH. 02.22'55''E/ 51.02'53''N .
a free nice car/mh park, toilets/water only in plastic contianers and a bit of a walk, V. popular on the 2 times we were there, a bit windy but ideal for kite flying.

SOEST Town Centre  8.7'0''E/51.34'18''N
a free car/mh park, (Stellplatz signs to it ) close to town centre, with water, waste and elec. (1€ for 10 hrs.) it was a bit noisy in the morning with construction workers.

KASSEL motorway services 09.31'09''E/51.16'05''N
a great stop off close to the m/way Shop with toilet/showers, good restaurant and fast food outlet ( burger king) it was our stop off for ''Hurcales Monument'. 09.23'26''E/51.19'02''N 
on the first night we stoped at ( Baunatal 09.24'15''E/51.15'32''N ) outside Kassel it was SMELLY from open sewers/water drains not recommended.

MIESSEN Landhaus Nassau  13.31'3''E/51.10'13'GNU
pay site, good restaurant, very friendly family ran site.

MIESSEM Under Town Bridge. Sorry no GPS.
a free site/parking next to the ELBE. no facilities, nice view of river and right on a cycle path, V popular fri/sat night.

DRESDEN Centre 13.44'37''E/ 51.3'25''N
a car/mh park, Pay 12/24 hrs. stays, only 4 hookups, Close to the towns ( the old and the new towns ) covered with a canopy from the tree so was cool in the m/h. we walked to the old town across the bridge over the ELBE, wonderful visit other than most of the attractions were closed on Monday, the day we visited!! 14€ for 24hrs. stay 4€ for elec.

CANAL VEURNE NIEUPOORT (BELGUIM) 02.39'59''E/51.4'12''N free.
Official m/h park is just around the corner, but there is posts at the pavement so no good for longer vans, quite but gets full quick.

I hope to put some pictures on mhf soon to go with this list of sites, the holiday was not planned other than where we would like to go but is was a GREAT, seen all we planned to see +++.
Over nighted at Dover on the way back and visited Dover Castle the next morning, Brilliant took 6 hours and well worth it. 

hope this helps when you are 'not planning' your holiday.

Roy and Helen.
1925 miles and worth every inch.


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## billym (Dec 17, 2005)

"" A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving ."

Lao Tzu Father of Taoism

( but that was well before Sat Nav )


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

We're booked on the ferry early this coming Tues morning & back 3 weeks later . . thats about the limit of our planning - don't even know if its to be Germany or France 8O ho hum - beats working thats for sure.


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