# Panel van conversion v narrow compact coachbuilt



## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Hi folks. I would like to ask for some advice. We are considering buying a new motorhome, our first but we are not sure whether to opt for a panel van conversion or a similar sized, narrow coachbuilt. Usage will mostly be UK and Ireland, preferably all seasons an option and readily usable at all times, even for use like a car but not to replace one. 
Our drive is long and 9ft wide with a wall on one side and a six inch drop onto lawn on the other. My preferred option would be a PVC for driveability and robustness but my wife isn't happy about sleeping with rear doors nearby and she likes the more home like feel of the low profile. I am the only driver. I have some concerns about insulation with PVCs compared to low profiles. Swift's claim that their PVCs can heat up from minus 15c to 20c in four hours was not reassuring. My car can do that in fifteen minutes and isn't much smaller. 
My one definite requirement is that the body of the MH should be 6metres or less and narrower than the majority of motorhomes. I would also like to know which heating system is the best and quietest. 
All advice will be much appreciated. I have learned a lot already from the forums on here and love the site.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Gerbilman said:


> Hi folks. I would like to ask for some advice. We are considering buying a new motorhome, our first but we are not sure whether to opt for a panel van conversion or a similar sized, narrow coachbuilt. Usage will mostly be UK and Ireland, preferably all seasons an option and readily usable at all times, even for use like a car but not to replace one.
> Our drive is long and 9ft wide with a wall on one side and a six inch drop onto lawn on the other. My preferred option would be a PVC for driveability and robustness but my wife isn't happy about sleeping with rear doors nearby and she likes the more home like feel of the low profile. I am the only driver. I have some concerns about insulation with PVCs compared to low profiles. Swift's claim that their PVCs can heat up from minus 15c to 20c in four hours was not reassuring. My car can do that in fifteen minutes and isn't much smaller.
> My one definite requirement is that the body of the MH should be 6metres or less and narrower than the majority of motorhomes. I would also like to know which heating system is the best and quietest.
> All advice will be much appreciated. I have learned a lot already from the forums on here and love the site.


Hi Gerbilman, and welcome to MHF.

Personal choice on size really, I'd drive both and if poss park on your own drive to see what other obstructions raise there heads like guttering and fall pipes etc as 9' will suddenly feel quite narrow.

PVCs, back doors are fine if done properly and provide good views when opened, very useful as you now have a long loading platform should you need to go to B&Q etc, also it's another exit should you have a fire, and they are easier to park and drive due to the lack of bulk/width, and sleeker through the air so more frugal.

Insulation is my bugbear too I had my self build spray foamed before starting the build.

*"Swift's claim that their PVCs can heat up from minus 15c to 20c in four hours"* not going to argue with that, but it seems a very long time to me, but never tried, your car has a miniscule volume compared to a MH though, and it would need a while to get the engine warm the MH would start making warm air almost straight away, so not really a good comparison.

The best heater is the Alde, but not very common, then you have Trauma, can be great can be troubles some, depends what day it was built, not much else out there really in manufactured Motorhomes.

We've had both and coachbuilts are easier to live with when parked, and have more space, PVCs are better to drive, but are usually quite narrow internally, so chalk and cheese.

One thing which to me is a bit of a myth is the engine sizes, our PVC had a 2.2 engine, and we did all the really steep twisty bits with no problems at all, some seems to think you have yo have a 3.0, I'm not sure the extra cost is justified, they are also more thirsty, but it's another choice you'll have to make.

Good luck, enjoy the hunt and don't fall for the sales patter, half of them are clueless on MHs and make it up on the spot, don't be frightened of the private sale, (save thousands) just make sure you get it checked by one of the mobile MH chaps, for damp (less of a problem in a PVC of course) try not to fall in love with the first one which feels right, it likely isn't, many peeps change vans in the first year, go to lots of dealers and private sales, try sitting in one for half and hour, imagine watching TV, doing the cooking, having a shower, making the bed etc, IE see if you can live with it as they are all a compromise in some way.

Come back and let us know what you get, or ask more questions, you'll have a problem sooner or later with whatever van you buy, new or used, we'll be here waiting as we've all mostly been there and done that.


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## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Hi Kev_n_Liz,
Thanks for the helpful reply. We are probably going to buy new if we go ahead. Dealers here are relatively few. Some better prices on mainland GB but the local dealers here might not play ball with us if we had any problems. Some are better than others. One spent two hours showing us different options and never tried to offload last years stock on us. Would go back there. One in Donegal was good too. I want to get it right before taking the plunge and avoid a costly change. So I will keep researching forums like this and see if those experienced people like you can give me good pointers before we part with our hard earned cash. Thanks once again.


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

Kev_n_Liz has given you a good starting point with the perceptive comments. It's difficult to generalise between the two types as there are good and not so good examples in both.

Narrow coachbuilts are cheaper and easier to build because they put the furniture in and then add the walls. In PVCs, the converters have to add the furniture inside an existing body. Insulation is easier to fit in a coachbuilt. Coachbuilts tend to let in more light [if the doors remain closed] because of the ease of fitting rooflights and re usually taller and a better box shape. They are coming to the market in response to the growing trend of downsizing to PVCs. Small, narrow coachbuilts are still a limited offering.

PVCs are less likely to leak, less prone to body related rattles, and the large doors provide plenty of fresh air. Less likely to fall apart in the event of a crash although coachbuilts will have the same cab safety protection. There are so many PVC converters springing up that I do wonder whether the conversions from the smaller builders will hold their value. There is more choice in PVCs with some excellent top end models. Whilst driver/passenger doors are bigger than those on coachbuilts, most PVCs have a sliding door and rear exit doors - ideal in tight areas whether on the drive or car parks.

As has been said, personal choice. I'd have a PVC if I was only wintering in the UK; the wife won't even step inside one!


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

We have had various mh's in all shapes and sizes from very small Bedfords in the 60/70,s to a 27ft monster 8ft wide!!never again springs to mind, too restrictive. Our last was a HymerB584 which we thought was ideal, but then changed to a caravan for, we assumed, more freedom when sited, well yes and no, I found we were spending too much time dashing around in the car rather than slowly meandering from place to place as we would in MH. So, the moral is,as has been said many times, horses for courses!!!We have now opted for a PVC and take delivery early September, hoping this will be the right choice. Only time will tell, as it doesn't matter how long you spend looking, you'll only know when you've used it for any length of time ie six or seven weeks continuously, then you'll have a better idea of your choice, As has already been said, a lot of people make the wrong choice initially and change very soon after, but in the words of the great Frank Sinatra...."That's Life"....and best not dwell on mistakes for too long.
all the best in your quest
curlyboy


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## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Many thanks to Curlyboy and Brock for their helpful advice.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but most standard coachbuilt motorhomes are 7'6" wide or 2.3m.although Baileys make a wider one.
If you are not sure which to have, may I suggest you hire the PVC for a short while, expensive I know, but may well save you a lot in the end.
Or of course hire a coach built.

cabby


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

My Rio is only very slightly wider than my previous PVC. It also has the large rear door that opens, so with the rear lounge and the door that opens it is very much like a PVC. The only problem for Gerbilman is that it is a bit longer than 6m.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

rowley said:


> My Rio is only very slightly wider than my previous PVC. It also has the large rear door that opens, so with the rear lounge and the door that opens it is very much like a PVC. The only problem for Gerbilman is that it is a bit longer than 6m.


Do like your Van Rowley


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## aldhp21 (Aug 4, 2008)

Gerbilman said:


> I have some concerns about insulation with PVCs compared to low profiles. Swift's claim that their PVCs can heat up from minus 15c to 20c in four hours was not reassuring. My car can do that in fifteen minutes and isn't much smaller.


We have the blown air Trauma in our PVC and it brings the van up to warm and toastie very quickly. I haven't had the chance to try it in the winter yet but I'm confident with the level of insulation it has it will be up to tempreture in no time.

Also we do not have rear doors on ours. The lounge area is mid ships and the rear doors have been replaced by the convertors with a solid panel with a boot opening.

Cheers
Al.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I could light a fire under a van and bring it to temp fairly quickly, the point is that says absolutely nothing about the insulation, that refers to warm up time which is down to the power of the heater, how long it stay at that temp is a measure of the insulation.

Not forgetting of course that heat rises out of the roof vents, and draws cold air in through the drop out vents, and door gaps etc.

I had 25-50mm of spray foam floor walls and roof in mine, and a 4kw Trauma heater, it wouldn't stay warm a for that long, cold is also perceived differently by those of the lady persuasion, which will vary with age, young too cold, older perhaps too hot at times


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

Kev_n_Liz said:


> I could light a fire under a van and bring it to temp fairly quickly, the point is that says absolutely nothing about the insulation, that refers to warm up time which is down to the power of the heater, how long it stay at that temp is a measure of the insulation.
> 
> Not forgetting of course that heat rises out of the roof vents, and draws cold air in through the drop out vents, and door gaps etc.
> 
> I had 25-50mm of spray foam floor walls and roof in mine, and a 4kw Trauma heater, it wouldn't stay warm a for that long, cold is also perceived differently by those of the lady persuasion, which will vary with age, young too cold, older perhaps too hot at times


Hi Kev, did you have fun trimming back the foam flush with framing, I had our 52ft narrow boat spray foamed when building it, took me nearly 
a week to trim back:frown2::frown2:but during the snow our's was the only boat with snow on the roof!! Mind you we did have two solid fuel heaters going, one in the lounge and another behind the bedroom in the boatmans cabin....Toasty...
curlyboy


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## Brock (Jun 14, 2005)

There are some motorhome manufacturers who get the grade 3 habitation certificate by bunging in a big heater and not worrying too much about insulation.

This seems to explain the difference between winterisation and the various grades for habitation comfort:

http://tankblanket.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/tankblanket-winterisation-that-works.html

Or you could just accept what Kev says because he's right [again!]


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

CurlyBoy said:


> Hi Kev, did you have fun trimming back the foam flush with framing, I had our 52ft narrow boat spray foamed when building it, took me nearly
> a week to trim back:frown2::frown2:but during the snow our's was the only boat with snow on the roof!! Mind you we did have two solid fuel heaters going, one in the lounge and another behind the bedroom in the boatmans cabin....Toasty...
> curlyboy


No, no trouble really, the voids on the van are quite deep, just a bit around the window frames, I used a multi tool with an old fashioned bread knife riveted to it, proper job, hardly any mess with big slices.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Brock said:


> There are some motorhome manufacturers who get the grade 3 habitation certificate by bunging in a big heater and not worrying too much about insulation.
> 
> This seems to explain the difference between winterisation and the various grades for habitation comfort:
> 
> ...


It doesn't happen often so I shall accept the award with the dignity it was presented.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

If all the vans leaving the production line were built to that standard then, it'd be good for all, but people are people and we have Mondays and Fridays, we also have shortages of materials, and production targets, people who really don't give a monkeys, supervisors who have targets, people starting at the company, people leaving the company, all go towards it not being built to spec.


I would rather take the word of someone who feels the cold actually having owned one and gone away in winter to where it is very windy and freezing, then report back, the ones who get paid to do this are not always going to give the straight truth, they have jobs they'd like to keep, and work for companies who would like to keep the advertising revenue.

I'm not a doubting Thomas, but I don't believe everything I read, especially sales bumph.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

CurlyBoy said:


> We have had various mh's in all shapes and sizes from very small Bedfords in the 60/70,s to a 27ft monster 8ft wide!!never again springs to mind, too restrictive. Our last was a HymerB584 which we thought was ideal, but then changed to a caravan for, we assumed, more freedom when sited, well yes and no, I found we were spending too much time dashing around in the car rather than slowly meandering from place to place as we would in MH. So, the moral is,as has been said many times, horses for courses!!!We have now opted for a PVC and take delivery early September, hoping this will be the right choice. Only time will tell, as it doesn't matter how long you spend looking, you'll only know when you've used it for any length of time ie six or seven weeks continuously, then you'll have a better idea of your choice, As has already been said, a lot of people make the wrong choice initially and change very soon after, but in the words of the great Frank Sinatra...."That's Life"....and best not dwell on mistakes for too long.
> all the best in your quest
> curlyboy


Have to whole heartedly agree, been there worn the T shirt. 
We now drive around in an Hymer Exsis I 504 and love it. We can go almost anywhere without fear, aires, wild camp or sites fantastic and we never use public facilities, much prefer our own small but workable shower/loo. 
Just one extra point, the heating system in it is just brilliant, we leave it on all night set at lowest fan speed and we're as warm as toast, the hot variety! 
Wobby


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## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks again to all who replied with their take on this issue. Help appreciated. I am quite taken with the Swift Rio but my wife is not happy about that big door next to the sleeping area, same as she is about PVCs. I tell her that the locks are deadlocks and on metal doors so doors are probably safer than standard coach built habitation doors and locks. The extra fire exit of two or three doors cuts pice either.


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## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Should read "cuts no ice either"


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

Well in that case you know the answer to what would be best for you then, it is not a PVC either.:wink2::wink2:

cabby


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Some peeps are very strange, I'm in love with the Rio, so is Liz, we'd love to back up to a lake or loch or other view, and fling open the back doors to get the full monty, instead of some pokey little window.

But we're not all the same, I can see the reservation of not sleeping next to PVC back door, bloody ugly no matter how it's disguised but the Rio is a different animal altogether, (I would have lost the side door though, and had more internal space) put your foot down man > >


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## Gerbilman (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks for all the helpful and thought provoking replies. In the end I will be the only one driving and I will make the choice based on what I feel most comfortable with doing so, otherwise I may be driving something that I am not comfortable with and won't want to do it much and it will sit there more, causing more tension. I can understand the rather more attractive domestic caravan style of the interiors of coachbuilts but there is more than that to consider. I am waiting for a local dealer to get some Possl Globecar PVCs in for 2016, hopefully at a better price allowing for the drop in the euro. I will then take a look and see after trying driving one how I feel then.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Gerbilman said:


> Thanks for all the helpful and thought provoking replies. In the end I will be the only one driving and I will make the choice based on what I feel most comfortable with doing so, otherwise I may be driving something that I am not comfortable with and won't want to do it much and it will sit there more, causing more tension. I can understand the rather more attractive domestic caravan style of the interiors of coachbuilts but there is more than that to consider. I am waiting for a local dealer to get some Possl Globecar PVCs in for 2016, hopefully at a better price allowing for the drop in the euro. I will then take a look and see after trying driving one how I feel then.


The best advice is to drive a few different vans, as first time you drive a coachbuilt it will of course feel big to you based on previous driving experience, ours does to me if I've not driven it for a month or so, but after 5 minutes I'm fine again, you need to build this up using test drives, it's the only way to do it without buying or hiring unless you know someone who will let you have a try of their MH.

To base the purchase decision on the size of the MH without experience is asking to end up with one you will never be happy with, bigger is better in this case, but not for everyone , but any decision needs to be based in reality not an assumption, so experience as many as you can from a driving standpoint, then the rest is just the layout and if it will fit on your drive, and the price.

If you want to try a PVC for driving just go to a new or used van dealer, as the only difference is going to be the weight and noise level.


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## JCloth (Jul 12, 2018)

*Romahome v Van Conversion*

Hello,
I have a Romahome Hylo which I love.
However I would love even more to have a van conversion with the pop up roof that you can sleep in.
My question is about heat/cold.
During the day, with temperatures of about 23 degrees, I can quite happy get in the Romahome for an afternoon snooze without being over heated. Yes it's hot but not uncomfortably so. 
In a van conversion would it be like trying to snooze in a car that had been in the heat all day or is the insulation (I'd be looking at a professionally converted van) sufficient to match a coachbuilt one?
Maybe in the morning I'd be woken by the heat of the sun shortly after it came up if sleeping in the pop up roof?
I find the Romahome insulation to be quite efficient and I'm concerned about losing that in going for my dream van.
Does anyone have any experience of both for comparison?
Thanks!


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi JCloth, welcome to MotorhomeFacts, 

We haven't had our PVC long enough to be sufficiently knowledgeable regarding travel in hot countries like Spain. 

However, in the UK where the recent temperatures were either side of 30degrees and with the habitation and a rear door open we found we had a significant funnel effect of air cooling. When we had been out all day with the doors closed, side screens up, and the roof vents open (but fly screen in use) the van was no hotter than our previous AutoTrail Tracker.


.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The Truma heater, with blown air, in our Hymer B544 was amazing. We winter camped in it on numerous occasions. From very cold to lovely and warm in about 20 minutes! Then we could have it on low overnight to stay cozy. Insulation was also excellent. We wild camped above the snow line in the Pyranees (only knew that in the morning when some overnight snow slid off the roof and scared us half to death thinking we were having our bikes stolen off the back!)

We only ever failed to access anywhere, in our Hymer, once. That was in a Spanish village built in the donkey transport era. The overhanging houses were just too unforgiving  We wild camped in laybys, meandered up dirt tracks so steep that the steering was almost non existent (!!!) and shopped at Sainsburys or on the High Street.


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## johnnnnnnyy (Apr 20, 2018)

I guess I can give you some real world feed back, as I've gone from a coach build PVC to a panel van. I travel a lot for work, rather than stay in hotels I take my van/Motorhome and also sleep a lot near the airport before long international flights, so been sleeping in it every week since I've got it, around Europe too. The previous PVC low line, wider body I used to find a little challenging in some places using it every week, became a nuisance having to plan ahead looking on Google earth to find places to park etc, in the end it was easier taking the car and getting a hotel. 

I now have a a new 2018 Swift Select 144 van conversion. The fit and fixtures inside are way better than my previous Elddis, its super comfy to live with. Size wise, it feels like driving a car, so much so I've actually sold my car and this has been my daily drive for the past 5 months. I can now poke my head out the window and look down the side when doing tricky manoeuvres, the previous was impossible. Also width easier for parking in car parks. 

I love it. I've gone from cold weather in March to the recent hot weather, also been down in Europe too been in the high 30's, theres no problems at all with the heat inside. The body colour of my van is dark metallic grey so not the best colour for reflecting heat, the modern insulation does a fantastic job. I use the fresh air circulation fan at night (feel safer windows closed) and this does a fantastic job at keeping things fresh inside. When blistering hot, all windows are open, and keeps it as fresh as possible inside. 
When cold, its fine and toasty and warm. 

Regarding the barn doors, you can get after market dead looks, the same as what builders or work vehicles use to lock away precious cargo. There's no way these can be opened and a deterrent.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks for that Johnnnnnny. Is there just the one of you? If so how well do you think two people and a dog would fit in? Not talking major holidays but more short breaks etc.


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## johnnnnnnyy (Apr 20, 2018)

I use it myself for work trips, my wife and two small doggies come along on personal trips (some a week long!), plenty of room for everyone. A surprising amount of storage too (mostly the wife's stuff LOL!), clever double layer floor, plenty of storage underneath and compartments everywhere. 

The wet room/shower can be a little tight when taking a shower, but thats a tiny small price to pay for the convenience of the size of the van.
I have the attached layout, some genius clever designs give plenty of room for the kitchen work tops to expand space. I love how the dinning room is permanently there, we pretty much leave the bed made in the rear as find there's plenty of liveable space in the front. 

In our eyes we head to places for an adventure, so just eat and sleep in the van, thats the whole point of these trips. When caught a whole day stuck inside on rainy days and relaxing in evenings, its fine too.


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