# Which Van Upgrade....regardless of cost?



## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

Hello All,

Having undertaken several van upgrades in our seven years of motorhoming I am intrigued to know which model/make of motorhome you would most like to upgrade to (if any) at your next opportunity to change.

Considering, the wealth of knowledge and variety of ownership amongst our membership on this forum, I am sure we all have an opinion as to the manufacturers/dealers we'd most like to do business with in the future.

For instance it would be great to see how British built van owners would make a change; would Swift owners make a move to a Bessacar for example or maybe move to AutoTrail or even Auto Cruise or even choose to go to a European manufacturer?

Would Hymer owners change to Frankia or Burstner or perhaps make a leap to Swift?

It would be interesting to note any decision's relative to any possible / perceived limitations you might face in the decision making process (e.g. driving licence requirements, finances etc.) that factor into the equation.

There's no hidden agenda's, just a genuine interest in where motorhomer's loyalties and interests in design and technology rest.

Thanks in advance for your participation

Andy


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

2008 Swift Kontiki 669 to RS Endeavour/Elisse or Concorde. Similar layout/s as our Kontiki but with better perceived build quality. In a "money no option" world, would also want hydraulic levelling and air ride.

But then again, a new Kontiki Black 669 would leave us loads of spare cash to add the upgrades as listed above.


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## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

Nice choices deefordog

If money were no object I'd opt for a Concorde with smart car carrying capacity.

That apart I have yet to find a better upgrade to our present rear-lounge coachbuilt Eura Mobil 820.

So in all likelihood it will be with us for some more years to come.

Keep em coming!


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## peaky (Jul 15, 2009)

benimar mileo 246 upgrade to a carthago chic e line a class, separate beds at rear, separate shower better insulation and build quality just right for fulltiming, money no object buy a new one !!! with sat/internet, built in


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## WildThingsKev (Dec 29, 2009)

Rapido 7090 island bed to Carthago e line island bed. Trying hard NOT to do it though!


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## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

When Lowdham's used to do Cartagho's I often would make a detour on the way home from hols. to stop and drool over them!

Now they're a touch nearer at Tickhill its a challenge to stop myself making a visit as I know I'd be tempted.

Thankfully, with two kids still in tow I think the 'A' class type vans are still out of our consideration.


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## readyforoff (Dec 28, 2013)

Would buy the same again. On our second rear lounge AT Apache 700 , this one from new and two years old with lots of use and so far faultless. Rear lounge only for us as we both fit in the overcab so lounge and middle dinette never disturbed. All the needed goodies as standard. Added refillable gas , solar , rear airbags and compressor , towbar for car / bikes. Barring it being written off somehow we hope to get 20 years out of it (if WE last 20 years :? )


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## Bigusdickus (Nov 6, 2012)

Anything with automatic levelling jacks! Ramps are such a pain.
Bd..


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## Jeannette (Aug 7, 2012)

We are just in the process of doing our upgrade to a new Bessacarr E562. I was hellbent on getting a Hymer and went a looked around loads of new and used ones as as liked the shape of them and they are supposed to be the business.

When it came down to it I was unimpressed. Driving it was a weird experience as you sit so far back from the window its like looking at the outside from your living room settee and did not feel in contact with the road. The pull down bed did not appeal either and the dog did not like it.

The build quality of them is very nice but not in the bracket I expected from the price tag.

We arrived at the Bessacarr by accident and when I saw it I fell in love, the build quality is a very high standard, the cab area has equipped like a modern car with all the gadgets, bluetooth, cruise control, climate control etc all fitted and it drives like a car with a great view of the road. The area above the cab seats is all open with a huge window and makes the can space fully useable.

So adding the other basic essentials, such as tow bar for my bikes, satellite dish and inverter I think we may well be reaching a state of nirvana for a few years at least...... Looing forward to picking it up next week.

In the meantime, I am off to Normandy in the current van for a few days for the D Day remembrance.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would swop for anything that would allow me to reverse it on to my sloping drive without wrecking the clutch and flywheel.

Unfortunately the models we like are all on a Ducato 3 litre base with a clutch made of cheese and a dual mass flywheel.  

So, we will stick with our old(ish) Burstner.


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

We really cant see us changing our AT Cheyenne in the future - it really does have almost everything we want in a motorhome.

If money was no object, we would enhance it further with solar panels, sat dish (not essential) and hydraulic levelling feet and an internal reupholster in leather......

But all in good time.

C & F


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## salomon (Apr 20, 2011)

We dont want to change ours. We had it built to our spec anyway. Built in generator, solar, dish, full leather trim on a merc 519 motor. 
We limited to 7.5 metres as we felt anything more may get a but tight.
The newer models have external cupboards rather than drawers which we rather like but cannot be bothered changing for that.
If we decide we want something bigger when we get less adventurous then it will probably be a MAN based concorde or morello.


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## Imbiber (May 11, 2007)

I'm getting the impression that perhaps adding extra 'goodies' to our existing motorhomes is a far cheaper (and better perhaps) option than opening a whole new can of worms in changing to a new van.


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## pippin (Nov 15, 2007)

I would like to lift the body off the existing Ford Transit base.

Remount it on either a RWD or 4WD equivalent Transit chassis.


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

Imbiber said:


> I'm getting the impression that perhaps adding extra 'goodies' to our existing motorhomes is a far cheaper (and better perhaps) option than opening a whole new can of worms in changing to a new van.


Absolutely!!!

And Techno100 (Andy) is the Guru for this......


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

4x4 /AWD or at a minimum RWD


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

If cost is no problem I would like a Terra Wind:










http://www.camillc.com/terrawind.htm


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## Whatton (Feb 1, 2010)

I'd love a Bimobil EX400


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

Pretty much got what we want now, Niesmann and Bischoff Flair on IVECO fitted lots of solar panels pure sine inverter EFOY and E&P self levelling jacks, would improve the ride on the front if I could but that about our ideal.

Concordes are too tall and dont like the interior, new Flair well, we will see what is at Dusseldorf and then ask me again.

Martin


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Yes similar for me. Was at Dusseldorf last year and the NB Flair 800 CEBW was our favourite. I think they have lost their way regarding the seating furnishing/ designs though - much prefer the Concorde Carver here but on the other hand I don't like their lack of a sliding door at the bedroom (so those in the cab bed can access the loo) and the much less spacious 'dressing area' outside the washbasin/ shower.

Will be going again this year.

Currently been looking at air suspension and hydraulic jacks. Shame you can't get a little more travel out of full air suspension for decent leveling - having both is ££££ :-(

Dave


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## Ebby (Dec 20, 2007)

We will never touch anything by Swift.We bought a Bessacarr E560 brand new and had three years of nothing but disappointment ,all caused by terrible build quality. We have now had a second hand 2009 Rapido 787f for over two years now with no problems at all. Excellent build quality,it has a fixed rear bed were we store two fold up bikes and camping chairs. It has a front lounge with two seat belts which converts to a double bed.a genuine four berth van . Ebby


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## tuner (Aug 18, 2013)

We`ve had our A/T Cheyene 634 just under a year first van and love it,after being lucky enough to borrow or cadge a Bennimar 5000 aero and a Hymer coachbuilt but wouldn`t swap as OH loves it


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## deefordog (Dec 31, 2013)

Imbiber said:


> I'm getting the impression that perhaps adding extra 'goodies' to our existing motorhomes is a far cheaper (and better perhaps) option than opening a whole new can of worms in changing to a new van.


Good and very fair point but you don't get much if anything back on the re-sale value when it comes to sell.

I can't justify the cost of hydraulic levelling on a £40k MH as we'd be looking at 10% of the value of the MH. Now if we were spending £80k then another £4k wouldn't be an issue. So perhaps the cost of add-ons is reactive to the value of one's MH?


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd have either an Autotrail Commanche or a Burstner Elegance with an island bed. I'd have my underslung gas tank, solar panels, sat dish added on to it and a tow bar. Throw in a trailer and small car, Toyota Aygo preferred, and I'd be a happy camper for the next decade!

But like some others unless I had a bank full of cash I'm happy to stick with my AT Cheyenne 660 with all its extras, as we've spent a while, and a few bob, getting it this way!


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## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

For me it's an easy question. With unlimited funds my new camper would be a Unimog.  

It's angle of departure is superb for most remote roads, and the vehicle is my ideal for adrenaline pumping, long range travel. 8O


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## GMLS (Dec 2, 2010)

We are very happy with our 2013 AT Scout. Happy with the build quality, the looks and it now has all the extras we need. Just a shame they don't do a Merc option!


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## G7UXG (Feb 14, 2011)

Pretty happy with what I've got really.
2013 AutoTrail Mohawk 3.0L ComfortMatic. Got all the bits we need on it. On our second AutoTrail and not had any real problems with either. I'd like to put full air suspension on it but I'd have to be really convinced it was worth the 4 or 5 grand.

I suppose I might consider a Comanche or a Chieftain but anything bigger would start to be an inconvenience for me.

Mike.


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## VanFlair (Nov 21, 2009)

The problem with a lot of high ticket price money no object vans is that they end up too big to be used so we all seem satisfied with what we have.

Martin


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## Carl_n_Flo (May 10, 2005)

deefordog said:


> Imbiber said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting the impression that perhaps adding extra 'goodies' to our existing motorhomes is a far cheaper (and better perhaps) option than opening a whole new can of worms in changing to a new van.
> ...


Not neccessarily.........

When we are adding any extras or goodies to our van, we are not considering the 'added value' (or not) or the re-sale value, as we are not intending to sell it.

We are adding the goodies to make it the 'perfect' van - for US.

If I had the spare, then the cost of the hydraulic levellers (for instance) wouldnt come into the equation. Do we want them? Yes. can we afford them? (hypothetically here...) Yes.

Will they add their cost in value to the van? No. But then, by the time we have finished with the van, it will have very little value anyway!!!


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## alhod (Nov 1, 2010)

If money no object would probably go for the RS Elysian or a Mercedes based Le Voyageur

Alan


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## readyforoff (Dec 28, 2013)

Glad to see Autotrail coming out on top throughout instead of the usual shredding they get from the isolated (and unfortunate) unhappy owner. They build a good van and it's Built in Britain. ..


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## kaacee (Nov 29, 2008)

Happy with my 2010 Augusta, suits our needs so having added only a Gaslow system and Satellite dome, we feel we now have a vehicle that is as near as possible to our ideal.

If I was pushed and it was available, I would have an air break system added, because the current braking system, whilst adequate, sometimes feels not quite upto the job.

Keith


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## claypigeon (May 9, 2005)

kaacee said:


> Happy with my 2010 Augusta, suits our needs so having added only a Gaslow system and Satellite dome, we feel we now have a vehicle that is as near as possible to our ideal.
> 
> If I was pushed and it was available, I would have an air break system added, because the current braking system, whilst adequate, sometimes feels not quite upto the job.
> 
> Keith


Hi I am just about to change to an Augusta we have wanted one for about eight years and finally bit the bullet,2011 model with comfortmatic gearbox, I have thought about gaslow but we have no plans to go abroad where it would be advantageous.

Dave


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## robbosps (Mar 10, 2014)

Dethleffs Advantage 747-2. would have been my first answer, but s i have a RWD transit based van, id want another RWD van, and would prefer a Merc to the Iveco's.

With my family now, id have a Sunlight A72 on the transit chassis ( second hand )

without my family, and off seeing the world, id quite like to try a Lunar Landstar with a few extras fitted....


I had a look around an RS Evolution 3, but thats too much of a palace for me !


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## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

alhod said:


> If money no object would probably go for the RS Elysian or a Mercedes based Le Voyageur
> 
> Alan


As an Elysian owner for the last five years and an N and B owner before that, there is no comparison. For build quality and reliability the Elysian has been WAY better as we had terrible trouble with our N and B and Hymer UK in the first year.

We are just trading in our Elysian for a new one for delivery this year. Better spec than the Niesman as well.


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## adbt (Apr 6, 2010)

Would not change our Bailey 740 SE for any other motorhome .

He's our boy and pride and joy .

We love everything about him , he gives us endless pleasure :wink2:


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

We have been dabbling with the idea of an upgrade at some time, i.e. when we are free to go long/full-time. I have started looking now because I know how long it takes when looking at high quality to find the right MH, layout engine Euro spec etc.

We are starting from the base-line of a N+B Arto running at 3850 kg and 7m length. It suits our needs for present, allowing us enough weight for the two of us, bicycles and full tanks. With Air Rides on rear SVTech advise we could upgrade to 4,000kg, which would allow for adding hydraulic levellers.

For the future we would go for a truck-based chassis of 5-5,500kg and probably not more than 8m, big enough for 2 and not too long for parking. The extra weight would allow for more goodies, incl. scooter for (older) age and more water etc. Haven't decided on which chassis but at that weight it seems to include the newer Mercs.

For build quality we would be looking at N+B, Concorde, or one of the lesser known German builders and maybe RS, but I do not know if they build LHD, which is essential for registration and MOT equivalent for us.

Fortunately from here we are not too far from the German manufacturers and bid second-hand market, so once we have narrowed down the specification essentials we can do some looking when transitting Germany (and NL, B etc.).

Would I buy new? Doubtful, even if money no object, unless it was only way to satisfy the spec. I would prefer somebody to have had the snags dealt with, but preferably with a year left on the warranty

I have got my mouth watering now - and the sun is out:serious:

Geoff


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## camoyboy (May 9, 2005)

After having two Rapido's over the last eleven years, we are lucky enough to be upgrading to our dream MH, a Carthago C Tourer T150. We have always liked the Carthago build and layouts, but I am not a fan of A class. it is alot of extra money if you do not want a drop down bed. We were planning to have another Rapido, a 7079df, but after seeing the C Tourer for not a huge amount more money, it was a no brainer for us. It isn't perfect, I don't think there is such a MH, but it ticked more boxes than anything else looked at.
We have a long wait now as we will not be getting it until late Autumn but for us this is our MH dream. We are visiting the German Carthago factory in May to have a tour of the production facilities, so that will help to ease the wait.
Both of our Rapido's have been excellent MH's and trouble free over 75,000 miles. We hope the Carthago will live up to our expectations and be as good, several current owners have been assured it will be.








Colin & Sara


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Concorde Charisma 850 III, anybody fancy buying a Frankia?


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## suedew (May 10, 2005)

Ebby said:


> We will never touch anything by Swift.We bought a Bessacarr E560 brand new and had three years of nothing but disappointment ,all caused by terrible build quality. We have now had a second hand 2009 Rapido 787f for over two years now with no problems at all. Excellent build quality,it has a fixed rear bed were we store two fold up bikes and camping chairs. It has a front lounge with two seat belts which converts to a double bed.a genuine four berth van . Ebby


We are all different, we had our escape from new for over 5 years did 40K miles and only problem was that Aeriel lead had not been connected properly. Would still have it were it not for the need (more a want really) of a garage, swift do not do a van with a suitable sized garage.

Sue


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

bigtree said:


> Concorde Charisma 850 III, anybody fancy buying a Frankia?


Your post prompted me to look further into the Concorde range.

Their 'A' Class are a minimum 8.5m whch I could just cope with, but they only seem to offer single beds till you get up to the island bed in a 9.5m.

Also with the 850 there is a big difference between the Iveco and Eurocargo in terms of payload and Torque. Are you an expert on the different chassis/engine combinations?

The height at 3.5m almost puts me off - we have a lot of bridges in E. Europe which would be a problem, so many Artic trailers here are lower but longer to carry the same load.

However it is all great fun looking.

Geoff


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## zack (Jun 16, 2007)

Hope you enjoy your Carthago, we picked ours up in November the 148h. Good quality and drives very well. Some little niggles but pleased with the purchase


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

*reply to Geoff*



nicholsong said:


> Your post prompted me to look further into the Concorde range.
> 
> Their 'A' Class are a minimum 8.5m whch I could just cope with, but they only seem to offer single beds till you get up to the island bed in a 9.5m.
> 
> ...


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Since most of the replies on here have indicated that ideally the respondents would like to go to over 3.5t, I wonder whether there is a possibility of a sub-forum for just that category ???

I have been looking at over 3,5t but it means looking at every sub-forum which includes MHs over that weight.

Is there an appetite for a sub-forum for 3.5 -7.5t

OR

Should it be split into two

1 Over 3.5t on a van chassis

1 Over 3.5t on a truck chassis

All resposes welcome.

Geoff


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## bigtree (Feb 3, 2007)

Don't know if you can say all vehicles over 3.5t are trucks,mine is 5.3t on a Sprinter chassis.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

bigtree said:


> Don't know if you can say all vehicles over 3.5t are trucks,mine is 5.3t on a Sprinter chassis.


There was a typing error in my post. It should have read

"Should it be split into two

1 Over 3.5t on a van chassis

2 Over 3.5t on a truck chassis"

I was recognising that there are both van-based and truck-based MHs over 3.5t

Geoff


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## Christine600 (Jan 20, 2011)

nicholsong said:


> Also with the 850 there is a big difference between the Iveco and Eurocargo in terms of payload and Torque.


I have seen heavier models downrated to 7.5t leaving only 400 kgs for the payload. Just something to be avare of. Or you could possibly undo that if you can drive heavier trucks.



nicholsong said:


> The height at 3.5m almost puts me off - we have a lot of bridges in E. Europe which would be a problem, so many Artic trailers here are lower but longer to carry the same load.


Are you saying I should think twice before visiting Poland with my 3.5m van? 0


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Christine600 said:


> Are you saying I should think twice before visiting Poland with my 3.5m van? 0


You could visit OK but just be careful. The only two bridges under the railway in the centre of our town, Katowice, prevent our 3m MH going through.

I think the problem is mostly where the railways have been built over existing minor roads. The motorways and trunk roads are no problem.

Unfortunately none of the 'Truck type' satnavs have bridge height info in their databases for Eastern Europe, but maybe some maps have it - not sure. Next time you see a Polish truck ask the driver how they manage.

I cannot remember if you wildcamp but it is easy here - see my posts on a polish thread running now.

Geoff


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## scouter (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi,

Fascinated by the Northern Territories and the Kimberely in Australia, it would have to be this http://4wdmotorhome.com.au/ or one of these http://www.allterrainwarriors.com.au/on-the-dash to tour Australia on a proper tour not just the 8 weeks when we were there and it was the remoter areas (and so many were off tarmac) that fascinated us not the busy beaches in Sydney altho Sydney was brill.

We like our narrower Hobby Van exclusive and for an upgrade it would have to be a Cathargo Compactline with single beds, I keep looking and thinking,long may the euro fall and I might be persuaded even if it does have to be used import

cheers alan


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## chermic (Feb 15, 2013)

Our very first motorhome was a very nice Hymer 544 SL and we had that for 3 years and we have just upgraded to a Carthago Chic i47. 

It was a good move as far as we are concerned, we are happy :grin2:


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## rael (May 1, 2005)

Started with an Adriatik alcove model 14 years ago, then a Bürstner 747. 10 year break now got a Chausson Flash 03, next up is a Carrado T448 as the kids are gone!

I don't want anything fancy, just functional and comfortable. Also had habitation aircon fitted to all given we do Greece, Italy Croatia etc.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Our next MH will be an RV with 2-3 slide outs :grin2:


We plan to move to west Wales when I retire; buy a bungalow with a bit of land; put up a lean to up to store said beastie when home; then go to southern Spain for 4-5 months every autumn-winter-spring until the weather perks up and then we will come back to Blighty.


The RV will be used as a temporary home if we sell our current gaff before finding our new home. Then we will use it for the odd week here and there whilst in the summer in the UK.


Graham:smile2:


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## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> For build quality we would be looking at N+B, Concorde, or one of the lesser known German builders and maybe RS, but I do not know if they build LHD, which is essential for registration and MOT equivalent for
> 
> Geoff


FYI our RS was LHD as specified by us, they build either


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