# Dangerous and illegal towbar fitted....



## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Our saga with the dealer we bought our Adria Vision from in March 2007 continues. I had asked for a manufacturer-approved towbar to be fitted prior to taking delivery of the van. This took up WEEKS extra - the dealer kept blaming the towbar fitting for the delays in delivery of the van - and the dealer was quick to chirp about how the van needed a "special heavy duty" towbar suited to the ALKO chassis. Fine. Except......not....

The towbar looked to me (I'm certainly no expert) a bit puny and not very well finished when we collected the van - it didn't even have a plastic cover on the ball, and wasn't painted, and the welding I could see was quite messy looking - and appeared less substantial than the one I have on my aging Range Rover. It was also fitted very low to the ground and the hitchplate was sticking out BELOW the bar, so suffered damage when it went up a slopy area. I booked it into Towtal in Stoke on Trent who made a special arrangement to do it Saturday (today) for which I was most grateful given my work situation. 

The news was dire - Towtal were astonished that ANYONE could have provided such a towbar, let alone an Authorised Adria Dealer. 

The bar had been welded to the Alko chassis, which Towtal pointed out will void the Alko warranty, and the welding standard was shocking - the metal used in the construction was also well below minimum standards - the hitchplate being 8mm with minimum recommendations being 10 or 12, and the box metal used for the body of the towbar was extremely puny - 3.5mm where 5mm is the standard.No reinforcement was given to the box interior, which had crumpled where bolted, apparently a total no-no for towbars.

Towtal have given a report in writing, with photos, explaining that the towbar is not fit for purpose and was, in fact, dangerous and would have been illegal in use on the road. The fitter had also drilled 6 holes in the Alko chassis which was another area which can void the alko warranty.

The bar had to be cut away from the chassis so that Towtal could fit the newly constructed, much better looking and painted tow bar, which took them approx 4 hours or so and cost a shade under £500.

The dealer did the usual duck-and-dive routine and did not return any calls - he hasn't done so since the day after we collected the van, despite many efforts. Adria Concessionaires were advised about the problems, and have assisted with supplying the missing manuals for the van so far, and two complimentary Adria umbrellas......but they obviously are not yet aware of the towbar situation.

I'm looking for some advice and ideas here....the van is a pricey purchase - around £60K with its extras (including the dangerous towbar!). Bought on HP. Dealer, BCS Motorhomes Herne Bay, is an authorised Adria and Bessacar dealer. Owner refuses to return any calls etc and is a 300 mile journey from our home in the Midlands.

Am obviously out of pocket by £500 plus, and there are other issues not addressed yet. What's the best course of action now?? Especially concerned about the voiding of the Alko warranty by the dealer's reckless and dangerous behaviour with this towbar. Kept the disgusting towbar bits as tangible evidence of the disgraceful job.......

Any advice or comments?? Helpful ones, not flippant ones, please folks - I don't feel its a laughing matter....

Regards

Laurie

PS The van itself is comfortable and all we would have wanted in our "perfect" motorhome had the dealer not screwed up like this.


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## WingPete (Jan 29, 2006)

*Non-proffesional reply*

I cannot believe that a firm with such a franchise could be so irresponsible
Liability is with the supplier, of both the m/home and the engineer (?) who fitted something obviously "not suitable for the indended purpose".
You experience needs greater, in depth study, for by implication, you life and those of others seem to have been put to uneccessary risk from a sudden and calamitous situation, which was entirely avoidable had it been carried out by competant fitters/engineer/slaesmen.
I think your redress initially lies with the Trading Standards people, for such actualities are easily proven.
Thereafter, you would be quite reasonabl;e by claiming suitable and sizeable compensation from the firm, for placing you at avoidable risk, and selling goods not fit for the intended purpose, which is where you need good, professional advice from independant engineers and solicitor.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Consumer direct springs to mind. 
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
Also HP company as they tend to have more clout. Finally check house insurance for legal cover and phone them. 
We are currently pursuing a garage for misrepresentaion of our car on the advice of consumer direct so they do deal with vehicles.
You should not have to put up with shoddy workmanship in any way shape or form. Oh just another though try this website as well they give great advice in all areas.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

Laurie 

I am so sorry to hear what your dealer has done to your new Adria motorhome.

Do not go legal yet or involve Trading Standards. Instead contact Adria through their website and send an email for the attention of Mike Lake he is one of the directors of Adria. The other directors name is unprounaceable. Give Mike a day or two to get back to you - he is most helpful and will do all he can to assist you. 

If you are unable to find the website come back to me and I will contact my daughter for Mike Lake's email address when she comes back from holiday.

Joyce


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

*Re: DANGEROUS AND ILLEGAL TOWBAR FITTED....*



doc_cam said:


> Our saga with the dealer we bought our Adria Vision from in March 2007 continues. I had asked for a manufacturer-approved towbar to be fitted prior to taking delivery of the van. This took up WEEKS extra - the dealer kept blaming the towbar fitting for the delays in delivery of the van - and the dealer was quick to chirp about how the van needed a "special heavy duty" towbar suited to the ALKO chassis. Fine. Except......not....
> 
> The towbar looked to me (I'm certainly no expert) a bit puny and not very well finished when we collected the van - it didn't even have a plastic cover on the ball, and wasn't painted, and the welding I could see was quite messy looking - and appeared less substantial than the one I have on my aging Range Rover. It was also fitted very low to the ground and the hitchplate was sticking out BELOW the bar, so suffered damage when it went up a slopy area. I booked it into Towtal in Stoke on Trent who made a special arrangement to do it Saturday (today) for which I was most grateful given my work situation.
> 
> ...


Oh dear Laurie,

What a nightmare it must be for you and yours. Certainly no flippant remarks from this quarter!!!

With the evidence from Towtall, surely Trading Standards has to be on your hit list. After all, this dealer has potentially put life at risk, by allowing a vehicle fitted with an inadequate towing facility, to be driven on the public highway, knowing that it was unfit and unsafe for purpose. What about his flagrant disregard for British safety standards, and, or the ISO equivalent.

You must surely have a good case against him, however, I am not best placed to offer any legal advice . I do wish you well in your efforts to reach an acceptable settlement, ie, a new MH, c/w a Euro standard towbar.

Here's hoping,

Jock.


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

So sorry to hear of your problems. This company deserves to (and I hope will) lose its franchise. We were lucky it seems with our dealer Becks who bent over backwards for us to the point I'm travelling nearly 300 miles to have my habitation check done by them. They even sent a Christmas card and calender, small things but nevertheless make us feel valued as a customer.


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your helpful and supportive words so far - Sealady I will try contacting Adria - I guess you mean the UK Adria importers at Fleetwood caravans?? Maybe Adria in Slovenia would like to know, too. And I will try the Consumer sites and Trading Standards as well. 

Sadly, our household insurance (Hiscox) as far as I remember excludes motor vehicle claims, so any legal action would end up being extremely costly if I had to foot the bill, which any normal person could ill afford given solicitors fees.
I don't think we are fussy or unreasonable clients - the dealer has been absolutely awful - but I feel that there should be some redress. It makes me feel quite ill that we've committed ourselves to a huge purchase and the dealer has done this to us; he could have made us cause a dreadful accident and kill or injure ourselves and/or others, and wreck property as well, not to mention the fact that we could have been on the wrong side of the law if there had been an incident while towing.


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

You must contact the finance company as they are the owners of the vehicle.Inform them that you are out of pocket on their behalf by £500 and why, send (copies only of the bill etc) to them.Also tell them that it might possibly affect the warranties and get them to contact the dealer and Adria.make sure you keep copies of any letters you send and receive.If you do not get any joy within 3 months, then inform the finance company that you are going to claim your money in the small claims court against the dealer/ garage who fitted the towbar.plus costs.Will warn you this can take weeks to sort out.good luck keep us all aware of how you get on.

cabby


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Very sorry to hear what to you must be very distressing news. I'd be seeking a full engineers report on the original work undertaken. I know that HGV chassis members are made of tempered (heat treated) steel to improve strength & resilience. Hence all the fixings made to the chassis are mechanical IE bolted through & not welded. Next time you're parked near an HGV tractor unit have a look & you'll see what I mean. Welding & the associated heating of the surrounding metal could have in my opinion affected the strength of you chassis. 

Personally I'd be seeking an expert opinion.

Dave.


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## Suenliam (Mar 22, 2006)

Hi doc_cam. 

I really feel for you. The vision is such a splendid machine and then have someone who should have known better do that to it. 

I think if I was in your position I would try to contact Adria direct as suggested above, but also register your complaint with Trading Standards. They will offer advice, but only get directly involved if you ask them to. In the first instance speak to your local office although if you want more than advice, it may be that you have to contact the office local to the dealer. TS may even do that for you. Anyhow your local office will advise. 

All the best for an outcome acceptable to you.

Sue


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

A quick update for those of you interested and who were so supportive....Mike Lake, Adria's Commercial Director, phoned me today and was aghast at the problem - promised to contact me again soon after speaking to Towtal and the folk at Alko - has promised to have Alko replace the compromised Alko chassis members that the idiot dealer had welded the "towbar" to, and hopefully sort out the other more minor issues too. Assurances that the warranty issues would be fully sorted out and seemed quite genuine about it - we'll see if he delivers, I certainly hope he does, my heart won't cope with much more of this stress!!!


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## gromett (May 9, 2005)

Thats good news and I am sure a relief. Persistance does pay off 

Cheers
Karl


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

doc_cam

Pleased to hear you managed to contact Mike Lake. We found his promises weren't empty.

My daughter bought a new caravan and towed it about 40miles when problems occurred and she refused to tow it further. The dealer's service manager solely decided to tow it back to the dealer's base and just about wrote it off. Of course it was rejected at less than a month old. But the dealer refused to accept the rejection. It was then I sent an email to Adria just to make them aware of what this dealer had done and Mike Lake asked for a telephone number in an email and phoned us with the promise of a loan Adra caravan for a booked holiday. Mike then supplied tickets for a caravan/motorhome show to sort out a replacement caravan. I suggest just have patience with Mike as he is a very busy man but he will sort the matter out to your satisfaction.

I don't think the said caravan dealer sells Adrias anymore :wink: 

Joyce


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks for the reassurance Sealady, he seemed very nice and helpful. Promised to call yesterday, but hasn't yet, but I'll be patient as he is likely to be busy. I hope BCS Motorhomes are stripped of their dealership, its been a horror story with us. Mike did promise to ensure that the chassis and its warranty are all sorted. Wonder if I have any hope of getting the £500 back from the dealer for the towbar.....I suppose it'll take time, but will persist.

Laurie


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Hi Doc-Cam Sorry to hear about your troubles, do you know who made the tow bar? 

Be helpful to know so we can all steer clear of them in the future.


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## sersol (Aug 1, 2005)

Hi very sorry to about your problems,it does however sound as if they are getting sorted out,thats good news.
I would add a word or two of caution to all.When people go to pick up their shinney new m/h allow plenty of time.In your case you were worried about the towbar at this stage,so why accept something that your are concerned about. As a rule dealers will work much faster if they DON'T have you money than if they DO.(If you see what I mean).
Don't be shy if things are not A1 on collection just walk away,I've done it & I would do it again. Any reason why you chose to buy from a dealer 150miles from home.
I hope hope it all gets sorted & enjoy your new purchase.
Gary


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi Sersol
Hindsight is always wonderful - both in personal and professional lives!! At the time of ordering the Vision, Adria dealers were thin on the ground and BCS Motohomes had a big presence at Peterborough last year with the Vision and are authorised Adria dealers, so why not? There were no other Adria dealers at that time very much nearer to us, and in the scheme of things, we were going to plan a yearly trip down that area to have the usual service done. 
Brand new vehicles do not generally have dodgy towbars attached to them by authorised dealers, so it was the furtherest thing from my mind - the tow bar just looked unfinished and there wasn't even a plastic cover on it. I thought it was messy. We left reasonable time for the handover but the young employee sent to do the handover messed about so much and wasted so much time that we became anxious, especially as the paperwork had already been done and all our stuff already transferred from the old van, which had already been moved to their workshops to prepare for sale. 
I daresay most dealers would not agree to spend upwards of 2 hours doing a comprehensive handover unless the formalities had been concluded first, so it seemed reasonable to do that first. 
Adria's director Mike Lake spoke with me last week and promised to call me later that day to arrange rectification which of course hasn't happened yet, (five days later) but I will follow it up next week and keep you all posted....


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Eddievanbitz

The "manufacturer" of the towbar left no traces of his identity.....hardly surprising!! Looks like a real backyard job with one of those cheap little spot-welders. When I find out I'll let you know, but I doubt its a "proper" company specialising in such things. Probably the dealers out-of-work cousin / brother / neighbour etc if you get what I mean!!

Laurie


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

doc_cam said:


> Adria's director Mike Lake spoke with me last week and promised to call me later that day to arrange rectification which of course hasn't happened yet, (five days later) but I will follow it up next week and keep you all posted....


Hi Doc_cam,

That was yesterday! This is now today, and tomorrow is yet another day.
Eight days in total......and still nothing sorted. You obviously have more patience than we do.
Apart from your property, this is probably the next most expensive item that you will ever purchase, and because of that, it needs to be done appropriately, and promptly.
We once had a problem with a dealer over a new caravan, and phone calls, and e-mails did nothing to attract the attentions of the dealer. However, a personal visit on a busy Sunday afternoon, banging the counter, whilst asking to speak to the management, when the place was packed full of customers, had the desired effect. It was only then that they would listen and take note of our concerns.

When left alone in the office, I turned the computer moniter round so that we could read the on screen details about us. What an absolute load of lies we were to read on the screen, about our purchase and our part exchange. 
Needless to say, we pulled out of the deal, losing 50% of our deposit, rather than all of it.
As always.....buyer beware.

Jock.


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Laurie, any news on your towbar?


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## 90128 (May 1, 2005)

Laurie has Mike Lake come back to you yet :?: If he hasn't let me know and I will PM you some more information.

Joyce


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Just to update those kindly folk amongst you who have been so supportive in this saga.....Mike Lake has indeed been in contact and is due to meet the dealer in the next few days as I understand it, having armed himself with all the documents and photos and reports etc etc. 

Nothing has happened yet, mind you, all the niggles from the poor delivery are still present - plus it has become clear that the van is not the spec we ordered with heated screen etc etc, Mike is dealing with that and I have also advised the finance company.

More updates to come. Haven't been away since Easter due to work committments and hoping the mess is sorted by the Summer when we hope to travel about quite a bit.


Laurie


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Laurie, any progress on your towbar saga. Hopefully by now you've got it sorted?


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Not quite. Some progress - Adria have nominated another dealer to take over all warranty issues, which is good news as they have a local fleetwood caravan dealer to take care of habitation issues. But the tow bar saga continues - as does the fact that the motorhome is NOT the specification we ordered. I provided Adria with my written confirmation to the dealer detailing the Vision with extra factory-fitted items - the dealer never ordered this specification, but I daresay, ordered a much lower spec with intentions of cobbling some items on cheaper than the factory option. One of the options I specified for instance was a heated screen, as we intend doing all year Europe trips. Turns out it isn't fitted, and obviously cannot be easily retro fitted. Sat nav was not the factory option, and the factory fitted satnav / stereo combo was removed and replaced with a cheap head unit.
The carpets are missing and there are a number of much smaller warranty issues, trivial but still need to be sorted.

I was also told to expect the MD of Adria, a Slovenian lady, to call me today, but as is the norm, she didn't. I expect she will, at some stage.

Mike Lake has spent a very long time trying to get BCS Motorhomes to respond to his calls and has had the same treatment as I have had - avoidant behaviour. Adria have apparently suspended all further deliveries to him until the mess is resolved. At this stage I think financial compensation is the only realistic solution, but we still don't have the "dream van" we ordered that was a long-term purchase, maybe the last opportunity we had to buy a brand new, pricey A class before retirement.
I have made it clear to him that Paul Glicksman from BCS has NO intention of dealing with the issues unless forced, and that he should stop wasting our collective time trying to engage with him andy more, but rather implement measures designed to make him react if his business is to continue unaffected (heaven knows how he operates a motor home dealership if he behaves like this).

We really don't have the money to mount an endless barrage of solicitors letters and court cases, which could end up with the Vision locked up somewhere, not used and deteriorating, while issues are settled and I remain responsible for a hefty payment to the finance company every month.

I've thought of the next step if resolution cannot be obtained informally - perhaps Trading Standards, and will also have to inform the finacne company, but that's when all the complications could arise with us losing use of the Vision while the matter drags on endlessly. Hope to avoid that. 

So there has been a little positive movement, although not enough to my mind. I wish BCSs rotten little owner gets his just desserts somehow for all the heartache and anguish his greed and deceit has caused. 

I do think Adria could be moving along quicker on this , mind you. 


Sorry if it all sounds whingy and moany - I still get really upset about it and am very stressed about it at present. Will update you further as it develops.

Regards

Laurie 
.


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

doc_cam said:


> Sorry if it all sounds whingy and moany - I still get really upset about it and am very stressed about it at present. Will update you further as it develops.
> 
> Regards
> 
> ...


Not at all Laurie,

We can sympathise completely. Our main reason for pulling out of the deal mentioned previously on this thread, was because of the affect it was having on Rita's health and well being. I couldn't bear to see her suffer any longer.

We appreciate that our circumstances were much less complicated than yours, and we do wish you well in your efforts to seek justice.

Best Regards,

J & R.


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## ksebruce (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks for the update Laurie. This company is unbelievable. I hope Adria manages to sort this out to your satisfaction. I'm amazed at the treatment you have had lets face it at the prices we pay for motorhomes it's reasonable to expect they are up to the agreed spec. and in good working order when they are delivered. As I said lets hope you have better luck from now on you certainly deserve it, and I hope this company sinks, the sooner the better

Ken n Steph


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## 89451 (May 23, 2005)

Hi Laurie,

I just wanted to say I've been covering this topic for some weeks now and wanted to give you my complete sympathies on your situation, to say it's unacceptable would be an understatement. It's a pity I'm not a big hot-shot solicitor, as if I were you'd have my services for free. 

I would say that together with the incorrect specification you should be entitled to a full refund and possibly costs, I also think Adria should step-up and be the bigger man here - perhaps using the positive publicity (it should attract for them) to their advantage.

Best wishes,

Ian


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## 103605 (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks Ian and everyone following this unhappy saga - hopefully there will ultimately be a successful outcome. At the moment it is really tarnishing what should have been such a happy occasion. We have hardly used the van to date. I hope to hear more from Adria in the week. If anyone feels like lobbying them for us, hey, power to the people!

Regards

Laurie


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## DTPCHEMICALS (Jul 24, 2006)

WHAT A SORRY TALE REGARDING YOUR DEALER .
YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT THE FITTING SHOULD BE " FIT FOR PURPOSE AND NOT INVALIDATE ANY EXISTING WARRANTY" UNDER THE SALE OF GOODS ACT.

PURSUE WITH THE GREATEST VIGOUR.
BEST OF LUCK 

DAVE P


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