# "Red Diesel" - For Narrow Boats - Legal!



## Hymie (May 9, 2005)

Being a very fair minded person - i take exception to the fact that "Red Diesel" - or diesel at the lower duty - is legally used by narrow boat owners and some other marine leisure users.

After lengthy arguments to retain this perk - it seems that at the end of 2008 a new system will come into being.

Diesel supplied for propulsion will be at the standard tax rate - BUT diesel purchased for "cooking and heating and other domestic uses". will still be supplied at the very preferential rate.

The best bit is that the buyer of the diesel only has to tell the seller that it is for heating to be legally allowed to buy at the cheaper rate - so its down to "self regulation"

So why cant we buy fuel at a cheaper rate as well ?? - after all a narrow boat is for leisure, pleasure, living purposes - the same as a motorhome??.

Personally i find this very unfair.

Happy Travels


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I thought that the leisure boaters were being hit for fuel duty at last - so they are being allowed to wriggle out of it? That isn't fair.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

I find it curious that people should see it as 'not fair' that other leisure do not pay duty on fuel.

It is as if they are willing to campaign to have a duty imposed on the basis ' if I am hurting, then everybody will hurt!


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Hymie said:


> its down to "self regulation"


Buying red diesel is always down to that. Fuel suppliers have no law enforcement role. See the other thread currently running HMRC policy & penalties before taking your chances.

Dougie.


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## 98742 (Apr 18, 2006)

It's perfectly legal to have a seperate red diesel tank for the generator or heating. Just don't run the risk of using it for the engine.
There's a company attend the Stratford show selling LPG at the lower rate. Exactly the same principle but LPG isn't dyed.

Regards
Doug


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## pelicanpete (Apr 28, 2007)

As a narrow boat or any other boat doesn't use the road system, why should those owners pay the higher fuel duty rate?

We are such an overtaxed country, better use of energy would be to lobby the Government to have all road fuel duties reduced!


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## johnc (May 1, 2005)

Hymie said:


> Being a very fair minded person - i take exception to the fact that "Red Diesel" - or diesel at the lower duty - is legally used by narrow boat owners and some other marine leisure users.
> 
> After lengthy arguments to retain this perk - it seems that at the end of 2008 a new system will come into being.
> 
> ...


The entire episode in the change in red diesel duty is down to our friends in Brussels. Please get off of your high horse fellow Motorhomeser when you complain that it is unfair for boat owners to have been able to use red diesel. Of course it was fair.

Just take a step back and think about what you are complaining about. You are moaning because people who go out in boats did not have to pay the same duty as road vehicles. Why should they, boat don't clog up the highways, they don't damage the roads, they don't even use the roads except when they are being taken to their natural environment, the sea or inland waterways. The entire reason for fuel duty is that is is supposed to be collected to fund our road systems.

What is unfair and it is totally unfair, is that private planes using "Avgas" remain at the old non road tax duty of a few pence per litre increase. .

It is totally iniquitous for this greedy stealth tax invoking UK Government to slap on the full road fuel duty on boats and it will do untold damage to the UK boat building industry

John C (also have a boat)


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## rolyk (Aug 24, 2007)

I suspect that it's a hangover from the days when fuel tax on road vehicles was intended to go into road maintenance. Obviously, marine use of diesel fuel doesn't come into this category and the additional tax has been forced upon the UK by European legislation. The UK government wanted to continue the current situation and lobbied unsuccessfully for its continuation.

If us motorhome users are complaining about the cost of diesel at 25mpg just give a thought to the largish powerboat owners and their 1 mpg.


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## davesport (Nov 12, 2006)

Hymie.

Life's too short & I'm too happy a person for to think about the price of diesel for narrow boats. I'm sure most narrow boaters are good honest & hard working folks like most are on this board. I hope none of them are reading this post. What would they think ?

Dave.

£0.02


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

_The entire episode in the change in red diesel duty is down to our friends in Brussels. Please get off of your high horse fellow Motorhomeser when you complain that it is unfair for boat owners to have been able to use red diesel. Of course it was fair.

Just take a step back and think about what you are complaining about. You are moaning because people who go out in boats did not have to pay the same duty as road vehicles. Why should they, boat don't clog up the highways, they don't damage the roads, they don't even use the roads except when they are being taken to their natural environment, the sea or inland waterways. The entire reason for fuel duty is that is is supposed to be collected to fund our road systems.

What is unfair and it is totally unfair, is that private planes using "Avgas" remain at the old non road tax duty of a few pence per litre increase. .

It is totally iniquitous for this greedy stealth tax invoking UK Government to slap on the full road fuel duty on boats and it will do untold damage to the UK boat building industry

John C (also have a boat)[/quote]_

Totally and completely agree. I also have a boat.


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## Jiggles (Apr 17, 2007)

JohnC, I very nearly blew a gasket when I read your remark about "Avgas", but as I'm not sure that you know what your talking about, or that I've misunderstood what you've said, I thought I'd better give you the chance to better explain yourself first please bearing in mind of course, that I am a pilot!
John


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## johnc (May 1, 2005)

*Quote from Pratical Boat Owner.*



Jiggles said:


> JohnC, I very nearly blew a gasket when I read your remark about "Avgas", but as I'm not sure that you know what your talking about, or that I've misunderstood what you've said, I thought I'd better give you the chance to better explain yourself first please bearing in mind of course, that I am a pilot!
> John


Dont blow a gasket Jiggles,especially if you are at 10,000 feet. It might hurt when you hit the ground. The challenge here is that I am accused of not knowing what i am talking about hence the follwing extract from Practacal Boat Owner page 99 May 2008.

_Members in the aviation sector also lost the derogation of duty on Avagas and were facing a 27p /lt jump in duty to the full road rate for petrol. Following HRMC consultation(to which there were only 25 replies compared with 512 from the boating sector) it was stated that private flying made a valuable contribution toi the economy. The amount of fuel used were tiny, so in a stroke of common sense, the duty rose by only 2p per litre. _

The common sense did not extend to the marine industry.

Enjoy flying with your cheap unfair fuel

regards

JohnC


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## Jiggles (Apr 17, 2007)

JohnC, private aviation uses 2 types of fuel - Avgas which is the equivelent of 4 star leaded, and Mogas - which is normal motoring fuel. Avgas sells for £1:50 to £1:70 a litre. Mogas costs what ever you can get it for from the forecourts. Commercial flying, however, uses varies grades of fuel such as Avjet1 etc. which are kerosene based and attract little or no VAT. So private flying is not duty light, we can't use "red diesel" at a cheap rate.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

If you really want ton get your teeth into something worth while...............

Why do we have to pay tax on heating' look on your gas, electric and gas oil bills.

*ANOTHER FIVE PER CENT FOR THEM TO WASTE ON USELESS PROJECTS.*

They have just started widening the M3 on the way to Poole, taking ten months, it was never a problem, now causing enormous tail backs and I dread to think of the cost.


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## Hymie (May 9, 2005)

*Red Diesel*

It was absolutely not my intention to cause offence to anyone just by stating facts.

Some interesting responses - cheers.


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## aultymer (Jun 20, 2006)

> i take exception to the fact that "Red Diesel"


Stating facts, but not intending to cause offence???

You are in danger of sounding as disingenuous as me!


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

:lol: I belive farmers can travel 15 mls per day/week in tractors -- from field to field-- so register your m/h as a tractor then you can travel from site to site on red. :lol: only 15 mls per day :lol: :lol: anybody who gets away with paying less tax has a good accountant :lol: :lol: How long before we pay a clean air tax  
terry


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## 111764 (Apr 29, 2008)

It is all down to the goverment to reduce tax on our diesel as they are too greedy and making the motorist pay through the nose , also it would be ok to use red diesel or anyother fuel on the road as long as you pay the goverments tax on it as far as i know


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I expected the boaters to argue their corner.

The justification for taxing road diesel (in part, at least nowadays) is that it is supposed to be a "green" tax to incentivise us to be more environmentally friendly.

The boaters do have alternatives - sail, electric motors as used on the Broads, or (in the case of narrowboats) horse-drawn propulsion. That's what your canal towpaths were designed for.

I suppose you will say "Ha! But the MH brigade could go back to horse-drawn gypsy caravans." Hmm, not viable or safe on today's congested roads.

I would be very happy to switch from diesel, if there was a viable electric powered motorhome on the market. Until then, I feel that it is fair that the boaters should pay tax on diesel because they do have environmentally-friendly alternatives available to them. I don't accept the argument that because the revenues are spent on the road system they shouldn't apply to boats. Only 20% of duty raised from road fuel gets ploughed back. 

SD

*speedily ducks back below parapet*


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## maddie (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi are you sure it is 20% ? probably more like 2 % :lol: then the rest for olimpics & MPs wage rises :lol: 
terry


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## pelicanpete (Apr 28, 2007)

SpeedyDux said:


> I expected the boaters to argue their corner.
> 
> The justification for taxing road diesel (in part, at least nowadays) is that it is supposed to be a "green" tax to incentivise us to be more environmentally friendly.
> 
> ...


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## pete4x4 (Dec 20, 2006)

What I want to know is why I have to pay duty on my lawnmower fuel, surely that should be exempt....... :roll:


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