# Motley



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Motley will be going to the vet today, at the moment he is on the bed as usual with his head on my legs, but from yesterday afternoon he was having shaking bouts. He was acting strange in the morning, followed me everywhere, wanted to sit on my lap when I was at the computer or next to me on the sofa and every now and then his legs shook as if he was sitting on a nerve, then later in the afternoon his whole body shook, his eyes looked bright, but he had a look as if he was trying to tell me something. Each time I went towards the door to go out, he was there so I let him outside, he looked around did next to nothing, maybe cock his leg, then straight back in. From the time we came to bed at 11 he was shaking most of the time, his whole body shook, I could only cuddle him and talk to him rubbed his tummy then his heart area, but nothing helped him. I kept dosing off only to be woken with his shaking little body touching me. He must have calmed down around 3.30 because I fell asleep and woke at 7 o’clock, he was lying on the floor at the bottom of the bed sound asleep. Hopefully whatever his trouble was is over, but a visit to the vet is in order today. I keep boasting about how fit this little chap is for a twelve and a half year old, I hope I don’t have to eat my words.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I hope it's nothing serious and easily treatable Jan.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks Alan, I am beginning to wonder if it had anything to do with the wind over the weekend, I don’t know if we have had a storm that lasted 2 days before. At the moment he is calm, but I’ll take no risks, off to the vet today, hopefully he will stay calm and I’ll take him this afternoon, as it’s Monday every man with his dog or cat will be there this morning.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Good point Jan. Our collie Lucy shakes all over if there's thunder or any sound like it, even if it's miles away. Once she starts it can go on for hours. It's not unusual for her to shake all night. Even holding on to her and letting her sleep on the bed won't calm her.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I´ve just been outside with him, he was perfectly calm, but he does keep looking at me, as he is now, normally he would be in his corner sleeping until after breakfast, which I haven´t had yet.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I hope it's nothing bad Gert, I would have thought if storm related you'd have noticed before unless his being older makes him more fearful, I'd have assumed something he ate, but maybe not this dog.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Fingers crossed the vet sorts him out or it was storm related.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Motley is a mystery, We had to wait over an hour at the vets, I went because when I rang she said they wouldn't be busy because its the end of the month, pay checks don't arrive until the beginning of the month.
He lay on the floor absolutely relaxed, but shaking, they (there are two of them, but the husband is only allowed to treat farm animals) temperature, heart listened to, felt all round, Mot stood perfect still, then Hendrick bent Motley back toes inwards they both said he had a slow reaction putting his toes straight again, then he nipped the flesh between the back toes and there was no reaction, but the front he immediately flinched so they think is a nerve problem, gave him a cortisone injection and I have a bit B powder to put on his food once a day. 
When we got home I was worn out because I did a bit of shopping at Lidl so had a rest, he was not happy, sat next to me on the sofa shaking again so I took him for a walk, out usual round. Absolutely nothing wrong, he trotted along doing his usual sniffing, come home and finished of a few kibbles in his bowl so I gave him some soft food with the vit B powder mixed in and he ate the lot. I am at the computer typing this, and he is going backwards and forwards under my legs, non stop so what's wrong I have no idea. I have just told him to lye down and he has, but for how long I don't know. 
I will give it until tomorrow and if he is still the same ring the vet we had for Shade at the end, he is older than Motleys vet and may have more ideas.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I do hope he'll be OK Jan. It's worrying when you can't suss out what's wrong.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I am now in bed with him laying next to me as quiet as a mouse, his last strange activity was about 7.30 since then he’s been good except when I got up to do anything he had to join me, but no shaking so let’s hope whatever it was has gone.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He had a peaceful night next to me on the bed, so peaceful I had to keep touching him to make sure he was still breathing. He’s not my little dog, now he is too quiet, normally he roams about in the night sleeping anywhere on the floor and mornings he is on the sofa 99 X out of 100. All night on the bed and still here now is not normal. I will see how it goes this morning, the cortisone was supposed to make him feel better I don’t think it was to knock him out. If he doesn’t improve I will take him to the vet that treated Shade in the end, it’s further to go than yesterday, but I think he has more equipment than the vet here.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry to hear this Jan. Poor little man  At least they are not like us and prone to imagining all sorts. He is in the best hands so lets hope a different vet has more ideas. Sounds neurological doesn't it? Try not to worry


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I don't think it's a nerve problem, there's something else going on. he will not leave me and is shaking again so I have made an appointment with the other vet for 5.15 this afternoon.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Did the other vet do a blood analysis Jan?

If not I'd request one.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Did the other vet do a blood analysis Jan?
> 
> If not I'd request one.


He had blood tests done last November Alan.
I have rung the vet again because this little dog is in trouble, now have an earlier appointment a 2pm.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I do hope the little chap is going to be okay Jan.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I am going prepared for poo inspection, already collected just now and next time I let him out I have to take a soup ladle to collect some pee (Just found that tip on the internet, I have an old ladle that Hans used to use for ladling paint.:grin2:

He seems to be happier when he is on the move, we just did our round and he was fine, but as soon as I sit down he is milling about and doesn´t want to lye down.

I will now type all his symptoms so I don´t forget when I get to the vet.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thinking of you. The vet might like to know that he is better out and about on the move. So hard when you can't ask them what is troubling them 

If physical things are ruled out then might be worth thinking about a phobia type problem related to being indoors. I knew of a dog that developed a phobia of the kitchen after the smoke alarm went off once and her owners rushed around flappin g tea towels at it. This then transferred to shaking when something burned on the grill and then to the cooker being turned on and, eventually, shaking when taken into the kitchen.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh that does not sound like a comfortable friend, I do hope that a rapid diagnosis will be made as it certainly sounds like there is something causing discomfort and, of course, he can’t really tell you.

Please keep us updated with how things go, we are all interested in hearing about him and recovery - I l love the thought of the soup ladle use……. The mental images are superb “Pee soup for lunch ?”


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Penquin said:


> Oh that does not sound like a comfortable friend, I do hope that a rapid diagnosis will be made as it certainly sounds like there is something causing discomfort and, of course, he can't really tell you.
> 
> Please keep us updated with how things go, we are all interested in hearing about him and recovery - I l love the thought of the soup ladle use……. The mental images are superb "Pee soup for lunch ?"


Here she is demonstrating Dave :laugh:
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...4j0i390l5.11497j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...e&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_og_5Yb7ZC82Sxc8Pl_mMsAQ33


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

We are home, nothing terrible found on the X-ray. When he was being examined he flinched so an X-ray was taken only to find he is constipated. He’s had a painkiller injection mixed with, as far as I could understand, something to relax his bowel.

He made me look a fool because as soon as he walked in the door he was so laid back, laying on the floor as if he was there every day and not bothered. The nurse took his lead and walked him to be xrayed, I think he would have followed her without a lead.

The vet and the nurse both spoke good English, the head vet recognised me and was shocked when I told him Hans was dead.
If todays visit proves nothing I will have to take him back for further investigations.

He is now sitting next to me panting shaking leaning on my arm making it difficult to tap this message.


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Thinking of you Jan and wishing the little bu**er well!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Constipation can be very serious I had it about 25 years ago, unless you are regular, you can forget when you last went and the pain can be excruciating, that enema was wonderful. and of course dogs don't usually complain.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Constipation can be very serious I had it about 25 years ago, unless you are regular, you can forget when you last went and the pain can be excruciating, that enema was wonderful. and of course dogs don't usually complain.


Kev

Were you shaking like Motley?

Jan

I hope this vet's diagnosis and treatment do the trick.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes Geoff uncontrollably, I was seriously bunged up, and had to go by ambulance to A&E, I was the same when I had sepsis a couple of years ago too, very scary.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The puzzling thing is that he improves when he leaves the house. If it were hard faeces pressing on nerves then surely they would press while he was out?

Kev, when I was in A&E with my mother in law, once, we were comparing waiting times with the other relatives. One chap had been there all day with suspected heart attack and it turned out to be constipation.

My mother died from a perforated bowel and I swear it was because she was constipated. If she was able to get out and walk the dog she was fine but if she cried off due to the weather then she would get bunged up. Exercise is one of the best cures.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear that he is still not sorted Jan. If he is constipated though did you not say you collected a poo sample?

Must be a worry. Sounds like you are looking after him well though and making sure he gets the treatment and visits to the vets to get to the bottom of it.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Yes Geoff uncontrollably, I was seriously bunged up, and had to go by ambulance to A&E, I was the same when I had sepsis a couple of years ago too, very scary.


Sepsis two years ago? Forgotten that if you told us. Not nice, I think I would rather take my chance with Covid.

As for the shaking, next time I get the DTs I can blame constipation:laugh:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes I'd had a prostate biopsy and they warn you that it can happen but it doesn't prepare you for the actual experience nearest I've come to dying.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

After an unsettled period this afternoon and early evening he went to sleep behind the sofa, one of his favourite places. He’s been out, but didn’t stay out for many minutes. We are now in bed, he isn’t shaking, but he keeps looking at the doorway as if he’s waiting for someone to come in. Hopefully when I switch off the light he will settle down because this looking at the door is very strange.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

It’s now 3.39 am and neither of us have slept a wink, he hasn’t stopped shivering and panting since we came to bed. At 12.30 I got dressed and took him up and down the road, he did a few wee‘s and stuck to me the whole time other than that. I have no idea what to do, I’ve tried rubbing his tummy and back but nothing makes any different. He keeps looking about as if he can either see something or expects to see something.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He finally stopped panting and shaking at 5am. I will ring the vet at 9 when I hope someone will be there, the surgery doesn’t start until 11 o’clock.
I have taken some video, I will load bits of it onto YouTube to show them. 

I tried sleeping past my usual wake up time, but only managed until 8.:frown2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It really sounds like a fear response to something doesn't it? Is he hearing something that you do not expect him to hear like some dogs do when it is windy/raining and they think it is going to thunder? They react like there is actually a thunder storm.
The looking at the door might mean that he thinks the scary thing is going to come and get him. Like the dog that associated the cooker with the fire alarm and then the kitchen with the cooker? When he went to the vets he did not expect to hear it because he had never heard it there before.
Another dog I heard of did a similar thing when it went near the show ring. They did all sorts of tests and concluded that the dog was picking up a smell of some sort that reminded it of a scare it had had. Perhaps a perfume from the judge reminded it of when there was a big bang somewhere? The owner could not remember such an incident but then why would she if it was innocuous to her?

If it is a noise phobia, they are saying now that pain makes it worse. The dog flinches because of a noise it has heard and gets a pain somewhere. This leads the dog to believe it is the noise that causes it pain and it becomes fearful that the pain is going to come when it hears/senses the particular fear stimulus. If he does have a twinge somewhere, according to the vet, then that might explain it?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I doubt your theory very much Pat, there’s nothing different noise wise after 5 am than there is before where I live, and when I am watching TV he suddenly starts behaving like this. He’s not scared of thunder, fireworks, shooting or the bird scared and he is now used to the clunk click of my wheels, the only sound to hear in the night are the fridge and freezer.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Remember his hearing is much, much more acute than yours. His fear will take a while to subside after the noise abates.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Appointment at 11.15 this morning.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds like fear to me Jan.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Sounds like fear to me Jan.


What can he be frightened of all night long and some of the day? Unless There's a ghost about.





.

He is shaking and panting the whole time.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Let's hope the vet has a clue as we're all surmising really, but dogs have extremely good hearing and sense of smell that cannot comprehend thats why we use them more and more.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

When our last collie’s periodic panting and associated discomfort caused us real concern a scan highlighted it was caused by intermittent blood loss. Sadly a bleeding tumour was picked by the scan, hopefully nothing as serious with Motley but certainly worth investigating.

Fingers crossed for the little guy.

Terry


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

They can imagine things to be frightened of Jan. Lucy now reacts badly to any bass sound as though it's thunder, even loud noises on the telly have her running to hide behind my legs. She's 13 and had no observable fears till thus summer when we had a succession of huge thunderstorms coming pretty much daily for several weeks. They were so noisy you'd have thought the house was coming down around us but we couldn't stop her hearing them.

The other one, Lampara, was once frightened by a fisherman dressed in dark clothing and wearing a dark hat emerging from the long grass on a river bank at dusk. It frightened an otherwise fearless dog to the point where for weeks she refused to walk past that place, obviously thinking that the monster was waiting to get her. She's still odd about people wearing dark coloured hats.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Back from the vets. Another examination by another vet, blood taken for 3 tests and they will ring me tomorrow. She also gave me a worming tablet for him and he had that when we got home.
I will now take him for a walk..

Something is worrying him again, he is milling back and forth under the desk, under my legs, His eyes looked worried


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Poor dog, I hope they find whatever is wrong soon, I would have thought they might have given him a sedative by now.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I just can't believe its any noise he is frightened of, we have just walked around the village and he stuck to me, when I stopped so did he and he was shaking and puffing away. He can't be frightened of a noise day and night, it´s a quiet as can be outside, no farm traffic, nobody cutting wood, it's a wee bit windy, but not enough to worry him I'm sure. Back into the garage, same thing, in the house same thing. There is something going on in his little body, he has lost half a kg. since last November and that's a lot in what was a 10 kg dog. No good me or you surmising, must wait to see what becomes of the blood tests tomorrow and if nothing they will probably suggest a full scan.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Was he shaking and looking worried at the Vets Jan or calm? I think you said he was calm at the other vets. Is it just happening in the house and around the village? I know nothing about dogs but I do know they can sense or hear things we cant. Maybe someone installed an industrial generator or something. Probably a bad example. Maybe something high pitched or low pitched we cant hear or feel. The thing to establish is does it just happen around your local area.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jan 

This is just a long-shot but I have heard of dogs sensing something wrong with their owners. 

Is that a possibility? I hope there is nothing seriously wrong with you.

But maybe when you go out or to the vets he thinks you are going for help for yourself, so calms down as having done his job to warn you.

I said that it is a long-shot.

For this and other reasons have you tried to get him house-sat at somebody else's place for a couple of hours and see whether the symptoms are replicated?

At the moment you are waiting for the blood test results tomorrow.

Best luck with solving the problem.

Geoff


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

JanHank said:


> I just can't believe it's any noise he is frightened of, we have just walked around the village and he stuck to me when I stopped so did he and he was shaking and puffing away. He can't be frightened of a noise day and night, it´s as quiet as can be outside, no farm traffic, nobody cutting wood, it's a wee bit windy, but not enough to worry him I'm sure. Back into the garage, same thing, in the house same thing. There is something going on in his little body, he has lost half a kg. since last November and that's a lot in what was a 10 kg dog. No good me or you surmising must wait to see what becomes of the blood tests tomorrow and if nothing they will probably suggest a full scan.


It's obviously nothing simple, he is an intelligent dog, maybe more than most so I'd not rule anything out now, and even perhaps mention some of our thoughts to the vet, you never know it might jog his brain, Liz and I watch all the vet programmes on TV, and some of the stuff you see is beyond imagination.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Can you take him away in the van for a day or two and see if it persists then Jan?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It does sound like there is something he is not sure about around the house; a noise perhaps that you cannot hear (remember our high pitch hearing diminishes with increasing age from the around 20kzthat children can hear downtown around half that in many adults WITHOUT needing a hearing aid…..), it could of course, be a smell (have you changed cleaning materials you use on the floor?), or, of course, he might be hearing vermin the other side of the wall…..

Lots of thoughts, very difficult to identify, but taking him away overnight in the MH - even if that’s sin the garden, may give you a clue.

I am probably wrong but something is obviously causing him concern. Yes, dogs can sense owner problems including cancer, drug use blood sugar concerns but that normally requires extensive training (like Police”sniffer” dogs detecting firearms, money, drugs etc. ).

I hope tomorrow’s test result do give a clear indication, not knowing is the worst position to be in….


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I have heard of a couple of dogs that have detected illness in their owner. It manifests itself in them targeting the owner with attention. None of them have shown fear. One would be at rest downstairs and suddenly trot upstairs to prod the owner. The owner would check her blood sugars and sure enough they were low and she needed to sort it. Neither of these dogs have been trained to do that.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

What a pain, I just typed a long reply, went somewhere else on the computer and accidentally lost it.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will wait to see what they say tomorrow about the blood tests before doing any thing else.

I don´t think he detects anything wrong with me, dogs have to have special training for that.

At this moment he is milling about under my legs, puffing not shaking.

Depending on what they tell me tomorrow I will make the Navajo nice and cosy ready to take him in there when he is shaking, if however the test give the reason then that won´t be necessary.

If I had a hard heart I would shut him out of the bedroom tonight, but I don´t and couldn't do that to the little chap.

Let´s wait until tomorrow and see what's happening.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have a pleasant report, last night he stopped shaking somewhere around 7 o’clock, the panting stopped around 9, but he still wouldn’t relax, I switched the light off at 11.30 and he has slept on the bed without disturbing me untilI I woke for the last time at 7.45, I think we were both very tired.
This morning I will be poo inspecting to see if these 3 dreadful days have been due to WORMS because I gave him the worming tablet at 12.30 yesterday lunch time as soon as we got home and it says these tablets take between 2 to 6 hours to kill the worms, maybe he took a bit longer.
I am so relieved he has at least stopped shaking and panting, maybe he is still sleeping because he is so tired after his what must have been 3 frightening days for my fit healthy little chap. 
I will let you know the blood test results of course as soon as I get them and hopefully he will stay happy and the test will all be negative. :grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Everything is crossed for him to have come through whatever it is.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

No doubt you are googling worms and neurological conditions, Jan, so I will wait and see what it brings up for you. Would be interesting to know. 
We don't get Echinococcus multilocularis (well a few cases have been reported) over here, because we should worm before travelling, so we would not have heard if it gives Motley's symptoms.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Unfortunately he is back to shaking puffing ad milling around me.

I have just been to put the heater on in the van to get to an acceptable temperature and we will sit in there to see if it still carries on. I had high hopes he was back to normal. 
Reminding me of the summer of 2019 when my hopes were up and down every day, I hope it isn’t going to end the same.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Can you not park up away from the Village for an hour or two Jan. Sounds daft I know but just to rule out something local.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

If it doesn’t work I must First wait for the blood report as they have my home number only.
I have to be here this morning as Mario is coming to mend the fence and I need him for a few more jobs that he doesn’t know about yet:grin2:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes, I agree with Barry, Jan. You might need to be some distance away to avoid any high pitched noise or low rumbling etc that are within Motleys hearing range. Of course, theoretically, you could move nearer to whatever it is so you might have to try a couple of runs out in different directions  I hope he realises how much you love him to be doing all this for him. Is he on pain relief?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I can rule out that it´s anything to do with being in the house, I have been down the bottom of the garden talking to Mario who has mended my fence and he was still shaking, panting and sticking by me. I also sat with him in the warmed Navajo for half an hour, no different. I have asked other people in the village that have dogs if they are having any problems, no was the answer.
I await the vets call.
BTW no worms in his poo so as I thought he is not a scavenger, that's always been a no no with our dogs.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think it’s pain Jan

Hopefully nothing serious 

Shadow was the same whenever he had pain, in the night he would appear at my side shaking and panting and I would lift back the duvet and he would slip in beside me, lie full length with his head on the pillow comforted by the nearness

It could be just indigestion, a pulled muscle running for a stick, any pain took his anxiety sky high 

Hopefully the vet will find out the reason 

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

First he is happy lying next to me on the sofa right now, at 4.30 he stopped shaking and panting, I even played for a minute with him and the ball.
Second the vet has rung, she is not happy about 2 things, 1 his thyroid gland is not producing enough hormone for which she will give me pills for him the other is his liver, so tomorrow morning at 11 he will have an ultra sound. Hopefully the liver thing isn’t anything terrible. He seems to be mending on his own, but he is still looking at imaginary things in the room, that’s hard to explain to you.
So nothing to do with sound as I thought, I know my dog, but I appreciated your input anyway thanks very much.
I just spoke to the machine for the last line and it wrote exactly what I wanted, but I don’t know how to make a space.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well the thyroid will cause anxiety as many of us know, although usually over secretion rather than under

Hopefully the vet will sort it

You need motley 

As I needed shadow and still do, they are so much part of our lives even when they are no longer with us

Sandra


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

*"I just spoke to the machine for the last line and it wrote exactly what I wanted, but I don't know how to make a space".
*

If you are using dictation on your computer, just say "Spacebar" that should give you a space.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Does it work the same on iPad, It doesn’t seem to know yes it does that should have been oh yes it does. How do I delete With the voice. This is so much quicker than typing.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> Does it work the same on iPad, It doesn't seem to know yes it does that should have been oh yes it does. How do I delete With the voice. This is so much quicker than typing.


Try just saying "SELECT" <required word/s> then say "DELETE THAT"

Terry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Just checking if this works I never knew that I can type I just talking at it thank you for that suggestion I will use that in the future although I suspect Mrs W might not be quite so keen for me sat here chattering away.

Paragraph that works to move the cursor down to form a new paragraph. Haven’t got that bit quite right yet in terms of using Spaceballs not Spaceballs space bar.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I can see contributions are going to be fun for a while!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks Terry, I will practice more tomorrow select tomorrow.

People Select people and delete that.
No that doesn’t work.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Motley day number six.
Although he slept and didn’t shake or pant in the night I did have to get up to him at 2:45 and about 4:45 and to let him out and he had terrible diarrhoea sounded more like water but of course I couldn’t see what it was because he went down into the little field opposite and I was not walking down there with a torch in the middle of the night.
I got up this morning at 7:15 very nicely put my foot in some sick it was all kibbles he hadn’t digested any of it but silly me so early in the morning it didn’t twig until it was too late I’d already put it down the loo, there were some white bits in it, however I managed to save a little bit I hadn’t picked up the first time and I’ve put it in a bag, it looks as if there’s some little bits of worm in there with my magnifying glass, but I’m not sure so i’ll take it to the vet.
Marvellous I’ve just looked down at him and he’s panting and quivering, I’ll be glad when they sort this out.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Guess he is over it Jan. We all have off days.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Guess he is over it Jan. We all have off days.
> 
> Ray.


What are you talking about, he isn't over it at all, I don't know what his liver problem is yet.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

We are all trying to help Jan, but we are not there, it must be very stressful for you.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> Motley day number six.
> Although he slept and didn't shake or pant in the night I did have to get up to him at 2:45 and about 4:45 and to let him out and he had terrible diarrhoea sounded more like water but of course I couldn't see what it was because he went down into the little field opposite and I was not walking down there with a torch in the middle of the night.
> I got up this morning at 7:15 very nicely put my foot in some sick it was all kibbles he hadn't digested any of it but silly me so early in the morning it didn't twig until it was too late I'd already put it down the loo, there were some white bits in it, however I managed to save a little bit I hadn't picked up the first time and I've put it in a bag, it looks as if there's some little bits of worm in there with my magnifying glass, but I'm not sure so i'll take it to the vet.
> Marvellous I've just looked down at him and he's panting and quivering, I'll be glad when they sort this out.


All our dogs have had such violent reactions to worming treatments.

Terry


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

JanHank said:


> Motley day number six.
> Although he slept and didn't shake or pant in the night I did have to get up to him at 2:45 and about 4:45 and to let him out and he had terrible diarrhoea sounded more like water but of course I couldn't see what it was because he went down into the little field opposite and I was not walking down there with a torch in the middle of the night.
> I got up this morning at 7:15 very nicely put my foot in some sick it was all kibbles he hadn't digested any of it but silly me so early in the morning it didn't twig until it was too late I'd already put it down the loo, there were some white bits in it, however I managed to save a little bit I hadn't picked up the first time and I've put it in a bag, it looks as if there's some little bits of worm in there with my magnifying glass, but I'm not sure so i'll take it to the vet.
> Marvellous I've just looked down at him and he's panting and quivering, I'll be glad when they sort this out.


Not good news, I do hope the vet can sort out what's going on. Our dogs have never reacted to worming in that way but I know that some worming treatments aren't suitable for dogs.

From what you're saying about the diarrhoea and the vomiting it does sound like there's something going in his gut but of course we're not there and we're not vets hope you get it sorted soon.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This little dog is a one off, he stayed still upside down for about 15 mins having the ultra sound done. 
We had to keep him balance upside down, but he didn't struggle at all, and when the vet said it was done he turned his head and looked at her as if to say, thank you for helping me. They thought that was lovely and said he is a super little dog. 

He has tablets for his thyroid gland to make more hormone and tablets for his gall bladder to clean out something that looks like sand. His liver is OK. The thyroid tablet he will need for the rest of his life she said, but the gall bladder tablets for only 10 days.

For 10 years he has only cost use for his yearly injections, now he is making up for it, nearly 400€ so far, he has to go back in a month for control of the gall bladder and blood test for the thyroid gland.

He stayed on the table like this waiting for an injection against sickness. :smile2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> This little dog is a one off, he stayed still upside down for about 15 mins having the ultra sound done.
> We had to keep him balance upside down, but he didn't struggle at all, and when the vet said it was done he turned his head and looked at her as if to say, thank you for helping me. They thought that was lovely and said he is a super little dog.
> 
> He has tablets for his thyroid gland to make more hormone and tablets for his gall bladder to clean out something that looks like sand. His liver is OK. The thyroid tablet he will need for the rest of his life she said, but the gall bladder tablets for only 10 days.
> ...


He is so intelligent Jan he clearly knows you and the vets are trying to help him. I think thats also a credit to the way you have trained him and interacted with him all these years.

He is lucky to have you as I know you wont give the costs a second thought, many I fear would not be so determined to get to the bottom of it at any costs. Sounds like they are starting to get to the bottom of it though hopefully.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

barryd said:


> He is so intelligent Jan he clearly knows you and the vets are trying to help him. I think thats also a credit to the way you have trained him and interacted with him all these years.
> 
> He is lucky to have you as I know you wont give the costs a second thought, many I fear would not be so determined to get to the bottom of it at any costs. Sounds like they are starting to get to the bottom of it though hopefully.


I think you'll have a few people telling you now that they would pay whatever it costs for their dog.:grin2:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

JanHank said:


> He stayed on the table like this waiting for an injection against sickness. /images/MotorhomeFacts_2014/smilies/tango_face_smile.png


Aww, he does look a little sad n sorry for himself. Having sludge in your gall bladder would make you feel pretty ill I imagine. I do hope the meds work for him. Hang on in their Jan, it's an anxious time for you.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Bless his little heart lying there so cooperatively.

Last time I had an uninsured dog she cost me £4K


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Bless his little heart lying there so cooperatively.
> 
> Last time I had an uninsured dog she cost me £4K


I can't remember how much insurance was when we enquired over here, but I know it was a lot and we decided against it, if they needed a vet they would have one as long as it is a sensible thing to do. None of them, Shade, Manny or Motley have gone without treatment for their ailments and I think we are quids in.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The £4k was all for "investigations such as MRI and camera in the joint and referral to specialists" The treatment, for a torn ligament in her shoulder, cost about a hundred quid to inject some steroid into the joint.
Same dog went on to cost, the insurance company that took her on, another £7K to diagnose and treat a tumour on her adrenal gland. There was not a day that we could have said that she looked ill. She just had symptoms that needed investigating.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I hope they identify the problem Jan

With shadow they didn’t , he lost weight, had chronic diarrhoea, so chronic we left the front door open day and night, but he still couldn’t make it outside in time, and in the end faded away

Not in time that we needed to put him to sleep

And I’m still struggling with his end, blood tests, ultrasounds no results,he wanted so much to live even at the end when he fought the sedative

At least he bit me Gran, shadow to the end said our grandson

Yep shadow to the end and £500 to allow him to die in his own home

But I wish he would have just slept with the sedative 

I can’t shake it out of my mind

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

As long as you did your best by him, Sandra, that is all that we can do at the end of the day. My family have often criticised me for spending so much money on my pets but I feel that I don't want to look back and wonder if I could have done more. I do not mean that I should have kept them alive for longer but that I should have kept them healthier for longer if I possibly could. No pain, no anxiety is worth keeping them alive so we must do the right thing at the right time. I am sure that, given the chance, our pets would thank us for that final act of love that we have within our powers to provide.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

It is never easy to come to the conclusion that the best thing is to help the pet die, they give us so much without any expectations of anything in return.

We do not think about the cost when we acquire a new pet, that is something we simply accept. Yes, we may buy insurance that will offset the cost at some stage, and probably we won’t use that for years, while the insurance company banks the income every month / year or whatever.

So, for most of us, cost is not the prime, or even a se on dairy consideration. The animal’s health and welfare remains the absolute top priority, as it should.

Could we do more to prolong life ? Possibly, yes.

But, the quality of that life alters our opinion, keeping an animal alive, perhaps in pain, or unable to do things they have always loved doing, or perhaps losing the dignity that animals have over toileting needs, or the ability to move without pain, or perhaps dragging their rear legs, or many other thoughts, all of which we KNOW would reduce the quality of life and cause distress - such things help us make humane decisions. 

That is one advantage that animals have over humans - the ability to have their life terminated humanely when continuation would cause distress.

Maybe, it is time for such considerations to be available for humans…….

No,I am not advocating euthanasia, just humane consideration and acceptance that all life is limited.

Death and taxes are the ONLY certainties in life…….. It is a terminal illness, that no-one survives.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Why have we got onto death, hopefully he isn’t dying, he is or has been ill, but that doesn’t mean he is dying for goodness sake, the heading is Motley not Motley is dying. I will know when its time to let him go and that time isn’t now, every day he will improve until he will want to play again is what to look forward to now. 

If you want to talk about dogs dying please make a fresh thread, people are looking with interest about Motleys progress on this one, thank you.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Up twice in the night, he still has the squitters, but sleeping soundly other than the two outings thank goodness. Hopefully he is coming to the end of his troubles. Still sticking to me like glue though so obviously not better better yet.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

You may not be able to contact your GP over the weekend, but I can contact Motleys vet :laugh:

She gave me a leaflet about the thyroid gland in dogs yesterday, all in German of course, but I have found it in English with Mr. google.

I read it, and not one symptom can be linked to Motley, what is suggested is the opposite to him, for example it talks about them putting on weight, he has lost 1 kg. since last November, that is an awful lot of weight for a normally 10 kg. dog.
So she says I can stop giving him the tablets even though the blood test said there was a problem with underactive thyroid, if he still has Diarrhoea on Monday to go back again The car will soon be able to go there on its own. Meanwhile to feed him chicken and rice and it is cooking now.

I know he has sludge in his gallbladder because I saw it on the screen with my own eyes.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I had a friend with gall stones and they bombarded them with something and she got rid of them, not sure if a little dog could have that though.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I think, in humans it’s ultrasound but I do not know if the same is used for dogs.

Apologies for taking thread off target, we all hope, and expect, that Motley will make a rapid recovery- chicken and rice does sound appetising. The sooner the better.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

It isn´t stones it´s just sludge, the tablets are supposed to work on that.

Wasn´t you that started it Dave, no need for you or anyone else to say sorry, but as I said people open the post and expect to hear how Motley is not about other dogs dying.
I only have my forum friends to share my troubles with :smile2:


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I’m desperate to hear that he’s doing Ok Jan

Not surprised that low thyroid could not be the cause, that usually causes apathy and weight gain at least in humans

Probably was my fault as I still struggle with shadows death, no one seemed to have the answer 

I’m really hoping your vet does and our motley will bounce back

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This poor little chap, every 3 hours I had to let him out and he is so clever, instead of going on the garden as he normally would he goes across the road to the little field opposite squatting several times, that way I have nothing to clean up except his fur at the back, I have cut off his long pants to make cleaning easier. Little chap comes in and without me saying heads directly to the bathroom to be cleaned.
He is drinking to replace the water he’s loosing thank goodness and he is eating the chicken and a tiny bit of rice, but today I will liquidise it to get him to eat it all, just a couple of tablespoons at a time.
He’s still sticking to me like glue, we are in bed, well he is on not in, where he spends the whole night with his back next to me, that’s the only way I know he wants to go out when he moves away, otherwise he has never found a way to tell me or us that he wants to go out, he only comes and looks at me, this is the first time he has ever had to go out in the middle of the night.
The shaking and panting is getting less and less, he is sleeping peacefully with his head on my leg now.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Do the vets know why Jan?

Everything crossed they will

But they seemed to ignore shadows constant diarrhoea, don’t let them ignore it

Regardless of what I fed him it came straight out 

And just got worse 

An antibiotic helped for a time but when it stopped he got worse again 

Sandra


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I think I have a different little dog to what I have had all this week next to me tonight. He has not had the squitters all day, he still follows me a lot of the time, but not all the time. I can feel him quivering a bit, but nothing like it has been, and it’s a happy face even though puffing now and then. Maybe he will be well enough by morning he won’t need the vet, we will see, but at the moment I am very happy with his progress.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Great, thank goodness

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Great news Jan, I hope it continues.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Improvement continuing, let you know how much later as he hasn’t got up yet :grin2:


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hopefully whatever it was has run it's course.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Hopefully, when he does decide to get up, which is bound to have happened by now, he will look and act better and won’t need another visit to the vet. 🤞🏻


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

This is great news. Hope he continues to improve.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I just called the vet and said I will leave it a few days because hopefully she won´t need to se him again.

He isn´t yet back to normal, he doesn't really know whats happening to him I don´t think, but he slept on my bed on the blue blanket all night and didn't need to keep contact with me.
He has had 2 small helpings of chicken the second one half an hour after the first, the rice he says I can keep, but at least he is eating.
We have been out, up the road and back, he walked very slow, no rushing out telling me to hurry up and now he has settled down on the sofa after having a little shaking attack when we got back.
I have been walking about and he hasn´t followed me.
8 more days of the Gall bladder tablet and I hope by the time they have done their job I will have my Motley back.

Thanks to all of you taking interest in him, you know it warms the cockles of my heart don´t you. XX


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sounds like the drugs are working doesn't it? Glad you can see an improvement and that he is letting you get some rest.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks for the good news, always pleasing to read 😀


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This is beginning to remind me of another time in my life, I was so happy about him until late yesterday afternoon when the diarrhoea started again and has been going on all night, this morning he didn’t make it out of the door, I hope that doesn’t happen too often for my sake as well as his, getting down and up again to clean up is terrible especially after sleep. He has taken to laying his head on me while he sleeps again so I have to try not to move about.
I’ll phone the vet and see if there is something I can get him from the chemist like Imodium or something.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry to hear this Jan.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yep. Bad news. Fingers crossed Jan.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Oh dear, two steps forward etc., I hope the vet can give you some advice, such things are not pleasant for either of you and he will know what has happened as dogs are really houseproud about such things.

Keep him warm and comfortable and try to encourage him to drink water as he will be losing it in the diarrhoea.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Penquin said:


> Oh dear, two steps forward etc., I hope the vet can give you some advice, such things are not pleasant for either of you and he will know what has happened as dogs are really houseproud about such things.
> 
> Keep him warm and comfortable and try to encourage him to drink water as he will be losing it in the diarrhoea.


Each time after being out he drinks water Dave. I was so pleased with him yesterday afternoon his coat started to puff out instead of flat and lank looking, he smiled at me a few times and just seem to be getting better all the time, and then suddenly at about 6 pm he gave me that look, I must go out and it´s been down hill again since then. He knows when people are ill they have to go to bed and rest so thats what he is doing right now.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Oh dear. Sorry to hear about this setback. Did you speak to the vet yet?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I may be wrong but am certainly behind the times, I had not realised that he is a long haired Border Collie by the look of the picture ? 

We have one too - currently asleep under MrsW’s raised chair (he loves sleeping in enclosed spaces like under beds). BC’s are well known for being fastidious about toileting needs.

But, as I say, I may be wrong and you may tell me he is actually a “Hungarian Apfel Strudel” or another breed I have never heard of….. 😅

Whatever, I genuinely hope that you can sort the problem, the vet has to be much better than unqualified people with a funny spelling for a bird as a user name….. if you can work out what I mean 😵*💫


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Has the little guy any noticeable hair loss Jan?

Just asking our dachshund had the other similar symptoms, test eventually highlighted Cushing Disease, it affects various breeds but not sure if Collies are amongst them. 

Again the vet’s hopefully the best person to get to the bottom of the issues.

Terry


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

She called me while watching the funeral service, we go to see her at 3.30 and she will give him antibiotics. So now I have to put the heater in the car and get ready.

Motley is a Blue Merle Sheltie Dave.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Told you I know nuffink


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> She called me while watching the funeral service, we go to see her at 3.30 and she will give him antibiotics. So now I have to put the heater in the car and get ready.
> 
> Motley is a Blue* Merle* Sheltie Dave.


I did not know Motley could sing like a Blackbird - and in French too.

Jan, I have not commented much as I have little to ad but I am opening every post notification.

Basia's Mother has same symptoms, except shivering/shaking, and was getting better on tablets but has recessed and Basia is now taking a bowel sample to the laboratory.

Geoff

[EDIT] Basia just walked as I pressed 'Post' - the lab will take 5 working days( 1 week) to get all the results, cultures etc.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Sorry I'm late telling you.

He´s had an antibiotic injection and will have another tomorrow and Thursday, Tablets are not suitable for this condition which is to do with bacteria she says, no sickness, no blood, temperature and heart normal.
He has tablets the size of a saucer, not really, but they are big 1/2 twice a day in his food. 
He hasn't "Been" anymore since this morning and he looks a little bit better, no longer sleeping.

*Terry,* no he is not loosing any more fur than normal.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I hope Motley and Basia’s Mum improve rapidly although I am sure there are numerous differences…….

Best wishes to both

Dave


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> I did not know Motley could sing like a Blackbird - and in French too.
> 
> Jan, I have not commented much as I have little to ad but I am opening every post notification.
> 
> ...


Sorry I didn't reply to this post Geoff, Motleys vet visit got in the way. I hope Basia's Mums trouble gets sorted out soon.

The little face next to me looks more relaxed tonight.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Penquin said:


> I hope Motley and Basia's Mum improve rapidly although I am sure there are numerous differences…….
> 
> Best wishes to both
> 
> Dave


Dave

Thanks for best wishes.

There probably are differences, other than age, but the common factor is that in neither case, and after 2 weeks, there is no positive cause of the symptoms, therefore no definitive remedy.

That is the worrying point for both Jan re Motley and us re Mum.

Mum is getting weaker and needs IV - so Dr. is trying to find a nurse to administer it at home.

Jan

Apologies if this seems to be hijacking your thread but maybe you can understand the worry about lack of identification of the cause.

I am glad Motley is a bit better, but you must be getting exhausted - keep your strength up girl.

Geoff and basia


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Dare I say, he hasn’t needed to go out since we got home even though I have given him the opportunity. I’ll not say any more than that tonight.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

1 injected antibiotic, 1 tablet to sort out poo consistency, the forth tablet to sort out his gall bladder and I peaceful evening and night, thank goodness.
He was still on the bed all night so obviously not back to normal yet, but I hope by the weekend I will have a big percentage of my Motley back.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This is beginning to sound like 2019 with Hans.

I took him for a little walk, obviously a little too far, he won´t eat the chicken I have cut up for him and he is shaking and panting, so no more walking, just put him out of the door to do his bit and in again. until he is really better. I am so sorry I took him now, but he was so excited when we went out of the `walking` door, spinning and even barked, we walked very slowly, but he did seem to lose interest half way round.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Gosh, that's a real roller coaster you're on Jan - I feel for you. Hopefully today's regression is just a dip thro doing too much. Do dogs suffer from low BP?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> Gosh, that's a real roller coaster you're on Jan - I feel for you. Hopefully today's regression is just a dip thro doing too much. Do dogs suffer from low BP?


I have never seen a BP test done on a dog Jean, but I dare say there is a machine when they are operated on, Pat will be able to tell us if she looks in.

Anyway he is laying next to me on the sofa, sleeping calm and peaceful. Yes Jean, more like a scenic railway and it's very wearing just like the ups and downs in 2019. 
I suppose it's daft me keep telling you all, but it does help me putting it in black and white.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Of course it helps Jan, and don't stop sharing your concerns. I know how helpful that can be when you're on your own.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes, dogs can get high blood pressure but it is not nearly as common as with us. It, I think, is often related to kidney problems in dogs and cats. Long time ago that I knew this stuff and if my pets have not had it then I have forgotten what I did know.
You are doing everything you can, Jan. Just keep plugging away at the vet and be prepared to ask for a referral if they are not getting anywhere.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> I have never seen a BP test done on a dog Jean, but I dare say there is a machine when they are operated on, Pat will be able to tell us if she looks in.
> 
> Anyway he is laying next to me on the sofa, sleeping calm and peaceful. Yes Jean, more like a scenic railway and it's very wearing just like the ups and downs in 2019.
> I suppose it's daft me keep telling you all, but it does help me putting it in black and white.


Not daft at all! It helps you and your friends want to know whats going on.

Maybe it was just a bit too much. More rest required.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Pat, I was thinking the shakes were more like low BP.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

JanHank said:


> This is beginning to sound like 2019 with Hans.
> 
> I took him for a little walk, obviously a little too far, he won´t eat the chicken I have cut up for him and he is shaking and panting, so no more walking, just put him out of the door to do his bit and in again. until he is really better. I am so sorry I took him now, but he was so excited when we went out of the `walking` door, spinning and even barked, we walked very slowly, but he did seem to lose interest half way round.


Hindsight is wonderful, but you did what you thought was right for him and by the sound of it, the first half, slow though it might have been, still gave him a chance to be "more normal".

He will get round to the chicken, but may need a little time to recover.



patp said:


> Yes, dogs can get high blood pressure but it is not nearly as common as with us. It, I think, is often related to kidney problems in dogs and cats. Long time ago that I knew this stuff and if my pets have not had it then I have forgotten what I did know.
> You are doing everything you can, Jan. Just keep plugging away at the vet and be prepared to ask for a referral if they are not getting anywhere.


Thanks, always good to learn from experts.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think Vets are so good, better than most doctors.

We watch all the Vet shows on TV, our favourite is the Fitzgerald referrals one, the stuff that man comes up with is incredible, very inventive and makes stuff that should eventually filter down to people.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have had my hand verbally slapped this afternoon by Dr. Drewes Mrs. Drewes husband, he looked after Shade, he doesn't speak English but he does understand my German :grin2:

The fault was because Mrs Drewes giving me the leaflet that I found in English on the internet and stopped giving Motley the thyroid tablets because he had none of those symptoms. "Never mind the symptoms, the blood test says he only has 1.3 (of something) in the blood test and it should be 3." He then told me about a search dog that started to lose concentration and a few other things were happening, blood tested and found he was lacking in this hormone the thyroid provides. I told him it was strange because I am discovering Motley is now becoming sound sensitive, I have mentioned on the forum somewhere the brakes on my wheels the click clonk noises he doesn't like, well today I discovered 4 more noises, the click when cutting nails, the click of a ball point pen, the noise of an eating utensil on a plate and while we were out he came to a stop listening and was reluctant to go further, it´s windy and he could hear the wind going over the top of a chimney Cowl, like blowing over the top of an empty bottle. This apparently is all to do with the lack of this hormone. I also told him about the staring at the door and around the room as if he could see something I couldn't, this is also to do with the hormone business.

So I started him on the tablets again as soon as we got home. I´ll need a third pill pot now for his tablet morning and evening, (I´ve got plenty of the little pots from when Hans was in hospital.)
I bought some liver sausage on the way home, that makes my job simple with the little tablets.
However he will not have the other big tablets that are for his poo, I crushed the half he should have this morning and put it in with his chicken, he wouldn't eat it, in fact he isn´t too keen on the chicken at all, however I had Bolognese and noodle for lunch, he loves that, so I left him a bit, mixed the chicken in and hay presto he ate it.:grin2: the next tablet I will crunch up, as they are supposed to be chewed, and put it in liver sausage, hopefully he wont detect it.
Only one more jab to go. Right now he is asleep on the sofa and his Mum says she is so sorry she thought she knew better than the vet.:frown2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

At least you may now have a diagnosis- under active thyroid and a lack of thyroxin (presumably), a very common problem in people as they age, or have other conditions, but I know nothing about dogs. 

In humans I think it is measured as the T4 figures, which combines two forms and is in microgrammes per litre, but I stand to be corrected on that. The figure I found is 1 - 4 mcg/litre so the figure you quoted seems inline with that.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

😊 👍 👌 

At this very moment he is in one of his usual places, not on the bed, but right next to it on the side I am sleeping on at the moment, I swap sides every few weeks to keep the mattress even😁. In the Night I found him at the bottom of the bed, another normal place, I am hoping when I get up he will go to his normal place in the dining room until after breakfast. I’ll not be walking him today, if he asks maybe Pat the ball a few meters for him in the garden, it is a lot milder so a walk round the garden will also be pleasant.
The last jab today and hopefully that’s sorted his guts out. 

He also looks a lot better this morning, he went outside to check everything is where it should be and left his mark on his patch, his fur looked fluffy and he just looked a lot better.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Excellent news Jan, hopefully he'll just keep moving forward.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I've forgotten more than I ever knew and that wasn't much  I think that because dogs are horizontal they don't suffer as much as we do with blood pressure problems. Of course they eat less salt than we do too.
One of my old dogs had low thyroid and it manifested itself as a non healing wound. She had no other symptoms whatsoever. She was diagnosed shortly after with a tumour on her adrenal gland which they discovered, upon opening her up, was attached to her kidney too. It took months to get the vets to take notice of me (saying that the non healing wound was not right) though.

Will Motley eat fish Jan? Sometimes they fancy smelly things more that plain things. Turkey is another option? Sometimes if they have been sick after eating something their instincts tell them not to eat it again. Which is sensible but not helpful to us.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

No he is not a fishy dog Pat :grin2: Good job because I don´t eat much fish either these days, tinned tuna now and then.

He is eating the chicken now so I imagine he just didn't want to eat when he refused it.

Our other Motley had a wound on his nose that didn't heal, he was diagnosed with Autoimmune disease.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

How is he doing Jan? still improving I hope.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

If cleaning his feet is an improvement Drew yes. He still wants to be close to me, but not always touching now. He still hasn’t been in his favourite corner, I think that will be the sign he is at least almost normal. It was lovely today when Mrs Drewes said goodbye to him, bobbing down to him and said she hoped she wouldn’t see him any more for 4 weeks, that’s when he goes back for blood tests to make sure he is getting a large enough dose of the hormone. 
I am not sure if she will also do another ultrasound to see if his gall bladder is empty of the sludge or if the blood test will also tell her that.

Oh and he hasn’t done a poo yet either, his tummy was completely empty so I suppose it takes a day or two to refill.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

So pleased
But really depressed that the vet didn’t help Shadow

If they had really dealt with his loose bowels , the antibiotics helped but they didn’t continue them

I let him down

And £500 didn’t give him a a peaceful death at home

The sedative didn’t work as it should have, he fell in the hall and bit young Albert who tried to help him, staggered to the kitchen before he fell asleep

And I can’t come to terms with that yet

Sandra


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

How is he this morning ? Hopefully a more settled night and a visit to a few well marked points outside…


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He is progressing thanks Dave, we have just come in from a little wander along the road and back. When I opened the door he was quite excited, but then as we went a few meters he slowed up.

Last night Barry saw him on the messenger video and Motley gave him a spin :grin2:

This morning he has `been´ for the first time and it looked good.

He has also been in his usual corner for 5 minutes and his little body is calm.

I weighed him at the vets yesterday, since Tuesday, when he still had the diarrhoea, he has gained 0.40 of a kg. This will no doubt be the body water refilling.

If you wish I will tell you each day whats happening, until he is back to his usual self, which hopefully won´t be long.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

*If you wish I will tell you each day whats happening, until he is back to his usual self, which hopefully won´t be long.*

Yes Please.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> He is progressing thanks Dave, we have just come in from a little wander along the road and back. When I opened the door he was quite excited, but then as we went a few meters he slowed up.
> 
> Last night Barry saw him on the messenger video and Motley gave him a spin :grin2:
> 
> ...


It was actually the first time he has smiled at me on the camera! 

He did look better to me than the last time I saw him and I dont see him every day like you do.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

The sun is shining, I was hoovering, the door was open


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Because that photo is embedded in the post (I think!) I can't enlarge it but I do think he's looking brighter?


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I can enlarge it by stretching with two fingers, he looks happy to be outside in the sunshine (just).

Good to see, thanks.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He’s been asking me all evening to play with him. :grin2:


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Looks alert and happy and we all know we need lerts……

Sorry….


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

Yes it pays to be alert. Lerts have more fun!


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## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

I've been following your thread Jan and Motley's progress backwards and forwards and sharing your anxiety. I haven't commented because I know nothing worth contributing. Isn't it difficult to get to find out what a pet's health issue is? I hope the vet gets to the bottom of it and he's soon his old self again.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Thank you to everyone who has been concerned for my little pal.
If last evening and night are anything to go by he is almost there. During the night he has been doing what he has always done, wandered here and there to different sleeping places, sometimes up on the bed, sometimes on the floor or on the sofa, I think his sleep pattern matches mine.:grin2: I am like a Mum with a new baby, for 2 weeks I have slept even worse than normal needing to know when he was on the move wanting to go out. 
He is on the bed next to me now dreaming, his little feet are taking him on some adventure I reckon.
Just a few % to go before I can say he’s out of it, sleeping in his corner during the day when I am busy for one and only on the bed until the light goes out and not coming on again until I am properly awake in the morning another.
We will have a short trip out in the Navajo today I think, if not then tomorrow when it will be even sunnier the forecast says, we both need something different than visits to the vet and the view from the lounge window.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Good news


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Really pleased to hear that, dogs do have funny sleep patterns - one hour here, up and move, 30 minutes there and so on, I wonder if it’s because of the coat they go somewhere where the underfloor layer is cold ? But then ours spends hours on his VetBed, which is home for him and goes everywhere with us.

Great things as can wash it at whatever temperature we want, take it out, one shake and it’s fit to use. Ames keeping it clean easy 😃


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

This is most encouraging and welcome news!!!#


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Penquin said:


> Really pleased to hear that, dogs do have funny sleep patterns - one hour here, up and move, 30 minutes there and so on, I wonder if it's because of the coat they go somewhere where the underfloor layer is cold ? But then ours spends hours on his VetBed, which is home for him and goes everywhere with us.
> 
> Great things as can wash it at whatever temperature we want, take it out, one shake and it's fit to use. Ames keeping it clean easy 😃


The lady we got Motley from insisted we took his bed because she said 'he loves his bed.' His first home with us was a few weeks in the caravan, never once did he lay on the bed, always on the floor. We tried it in dozens of places at home, he went anywhere but on the bed, in the end we gave it to our Urologist for his dog who loved it.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Penquin said:


> I can enlarge it by stretching with two fingers, he looks happy to be outside in the sunshine (just).
> 
> Good to see, thanks.


Yep, good to see him looking relaxed.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*You want a bigger picture of him*

Here ya are then.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Here he is in his corner*

:thefinger::love9:

Where he has been resting for a while now, he put his head up because he saw me with the iPad to take a picture


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Penquin said:


> I can enlarge it by stretching with two fingers,....


Nope, doesn't work on the EMV. Even if I open it in PostImage.

Sometimes Terry (@dghr272) has 2 pics, one within the post and the same one as an attachment - I can enlarge the attachment by spreading fingers, but not the one within the post. I think he started doing that when I said I couldn't read some of his pics within the post. What's the right term for the pic within the post Terry? Is it embedded?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Just for Jean*

:grin2:


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Ah, that's great Jan, thanks!! He does look so much better, now I can see him properly.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

We had a little trip out in the Navajo down to the part of the river that has a Ferry crossing to Poland, quite a few people out as the sun is shining. 4 more motorhomes on the car park, its a biggish space so no where near full. I was going to take a photo, but when I looked in the holder that I had purposely put on to go out, I hadn't put the phone in there  sometimes I can be very silly.
I know Motley enjoyed his little walk, I didn't let him go too far. A police car was driving along the dam as they do occasionally, the two policemen had big smiles on their faces as they drove past looking at Motley sitting on the grass waiting for them to pass.
I had no trouble starting the van, first turn of the key did it. I reversed back into my drive, there´s plenty of room and as I wasn't going to plug the electricity in wasn't fussy where it went, I forgot about the plastic Roundup bottle the hook up plug goes into when its not plugged into the van, I ran over it, I did that once before so remembered how Hans had re-shaped the container with hot water, it´s got a split in it this time though so duct tape will come to the rescue.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Duuuuuuurrrrrr ................. second time eh?

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Duuuuuuurrrrrr ................. second time eh?
> 
> Ray.


Second to what?


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

........ "I did that once before" .........

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> ........ "I did that once before" .........
> 
> Ray.


Oh the bottle, you must explain yourself. Raymond, it could have been `forgot the phone´ or `went down to the ferry´

Yes that was years ago.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

JanHank said:


> ... I forgot about the plastic Roundup bottle the hook up plug goes into when its not plugged into the van, I ran over it... /QUOTE]
> Is that to save it getting wet? dirty? Mine has a cap over the end that goes into the MH.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> JanHank said:
> 
> 
> > ... I forgot about the plastic Roundup bottle the hook up plug goes into when its not plugged into the van, I ran over it... /QUOTE]
> ...


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

So glad to hear he is getting better. 

On the subject of dog beds the current doggy incumbent of this house is very fussy over beds. In a moment of madness I bought her a very expensive bed with a pure sheepskin pad to lie on. Will she lie on it? - NO! I have to cover it with a polyester blanket  Sometimes the polyester blanket is spurned and we have to give it a good shake and put it in a different spot before she will lie on it.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

JanHank said:


> If you don´t understand that I can take a photo tomorrow which needs no words.


If you wouldn't mind Jan - I can't get my head round that!


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

jiwawa said:


> Penquin said:
> 
> 
> > I can enlarge it by stretching with two fingers,....
> ...


Yep Jean embedded as opposed to the smaller attached pic.

Terry


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Especially for Jean.*

First picture, obvious, second picture is the hole covered where the water pump lives to pump the well water up to the tap in the garden so there is an electrical point in that hole.
The cable is plugged in there for the van all the time when it´s at home. you can see the bottle on the left that I managed to run over yesterday, now round again, with its bandage on :laugh:
The stone is on the cover to hold it down in the wind because the peg came loose. 
I think that covers everything.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I assume pic 1 is the storage at the side of your MH Jan? Is the white circular thingy the German equivalent of the 16A plug? I don't think so cos I bought my EHU n it's got the blue 16A plugs either end.

Anyway, I've got the idea now - you've an adapter that goes from normal 220/240 socket to a 16A one, and it's this that you pop into the bottle to keep dry?

Not that it matters in the scheme of things, I just like to know!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Yes Jean,the white coer is the screw top that goes onto the bottle, the plug is the normal blue 3 pin


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Gotcha! And how's Motley tonight?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> Gotcha! And how's Motley tonight?


Missed this last night, I put my head down earlier than usual.

He is still not quite back to normal Jean, his play mode hasn't quite kicked in properly yet, he brings the ball, I roll or throw it, he goes after it and then looks at it as if to say, 'what do I do now', it takes a bit of encouragement for him to bring it and then he just wants a cuddle. It's going to be warmer today so I'll play football outside with him he usually loves that. He wasn't on the bed much in the night so that's another good sign.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Great news Jan! The wee man's system has had a fair shake-up so it'll take him time.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Sky is gray, but I am very happy because he is lying in his most used bedroom spot on the floor under the window for the first time. Yesterday I played tennis with him for 5 minutes, didn’t want to over do it the first time, and he brought thee ball back each time. He is now very alert and keeps looking at me with a smile on his face, not panting. I think I can relax now, I have my little dog back. 

Thank you for all the interest you have taken, you’ll never know how much it helps me to be able to tell you these things.
Hopefully only good things from now on.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Glad to hear he's more normal


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Glad to hear he's more normal


...just got to work on the owner now:grin2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

This is great news to wake up to! Well done Motley and Jan!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Thank you to all the people that are nice to me.

You others


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

GMJ said:


> ...just got to work on the owner now:grin2:


Nah!! too obstinate I reckon, doesn't respond very well to criticism and is highly unlikely to respond to training either.

> > >


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Heads down and take shelter.

Ray.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> Nah!! too obstinate I reckon, doesn't respond very well to criticism and is highly unlikely to respond to training either.
> 
> > > >


.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Heads down and take shelter.
> 
> Ray.


Nay worries man pet, she can't reach me from there.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

> >


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This is his normal place after or morning outing. He didn´t look alarmed when we were out and I clicked the brakes on my wheels as he did before. 
I think he would have walked a lot further as well, but not too much at once, he is better, now needs to gain some weight.

The picture is a bit grainy because I had to wind him in, If I had stood up to get nearer he would have looked up.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Glad we're all back to normal! (or what passes for normal!)


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Will he have to have regular blood tests Jan?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

That I don´t know for sure, but I would imagine so because of the thyroid business, maybe yearly to make sure he is still having the right amount of hormone replaced.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

His month for checkup was today.
Back from the vet, blood taken, he hasn´t put back much of the weight he lost, but the vet says he is not too thin.
He gets treated very lovingly at the vets. Tomorrow the results will be there and she will be able to tell if the gall bladder is OK by the test and if he is having the right dose of hormone, she didn't want to do an ultra sound until the result is through. All sorts of other things will be checked. Addisons was ruled out. The way he is behaving he may just be showing his age.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks for the update, Jan. Let's hope he just needs a tweak of his meds.


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

Any more news Jan?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I’m still waiting for the blood test results Drew, will let you know as soon as I do .


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Results of blood tests.
Liver is fine.
Hormone tablets to be halved so maybe things will change after reducing the hormones.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Great news after a crappy day. Good to see the little dog enjoying himself with Heike.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Good news. Like you say let's hope the new dose helps him.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

barryd said:


> Great news after a crappy day. Good to see the little dog enjoying himself with Heike.


I wonder why you had a crappy day 0 or who caused it. :frown2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JanHank said:


> I wonder why you had a crappy day 0 or who caused it. :frown2:


Its been a crappy week. Ive had to do some work.  PIA work!!


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Work, the curse of the drinking classes.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have a little video to show you, but something is wrong with my YouTube all my videos show a black screen with a circle going round and round :frown2: but it works when I put the URL on here, very strange.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Mums got a new chair and they took my sofa away so I have to share it.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hope it makes life a bit more comfortable for you, I'm on the lookout for a Lazy boy recliner I think.


It needs to be black leather though as I'm just that kind of bear.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

2 different wheels also arrived this morning, I have decided to keep both, one to keep permanently in the Navajo and a new one for home that I can easily put in the car if I want to.
The one for the Navajo is only 5.5 kg so easy for me to handle, the other is 6.8 kg so I can also handle that for the car. I am going to live my life out in comfort.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

What does the doctor say the problem is Jan?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> What does the doctor say the problem is Jan?


It´s arthritis in the spine Kev, I can walk, but I can walk a lot further with support from these frames especially when the nerve gets trapped as it does.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

It is so much fun this old fart malarky innit


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> It is so much fun this old fart malarky innit


I´ve had arthritis in my spine since I was 40 Kev and was told by a rheumatologist in a few years I would need to be in a wheelchair, I was determined I would not be.
Each year I can do less and less, but I will not be in a wheelchair until I can no longer put one foot in front of the other.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I understand your feeling on that, mine is different of course, spinal stenosis, it is partly nerves so I was told to not push it too far hence me looking out for some way to carry on moving around, but being able to do more, my bank balance will do more to stop me than anything else.


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## GMJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> It is so much fun this old fart malarky innit


You seem to make the best of it Kev? :smile2:

As old farts go you are a prize one....


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Another game*

He loves Jürgen, he plays proper moving games with him.
The other game is Viking chess.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

You certainly seem to be having a lot of fun with your visitors Jan!


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> He loves Jürgen, he plays proper moving games with him.
> The other game is Viking chess.


Is that:wink2::laugh: the same dog that was ill a week or two ago?


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Is that:wink2::laugh: the same dog that was ill a week or two ago?


Amazing little chap, I honestly thought he was going to die of some fast moving disease, but I think he is too fast to be caught.:grin2:


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Motley learns dog dancing*

Lesson 1. The Fruit & Nutcase dance


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> Lesson 1


Tell Juergen that he is progressing well as a student of Motley's teaching:laugh:


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Lovely to see him bright and happy. Poor Georgia is fed up living with a pair of worn out old farts.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

patp said:


> Lovely to see him bright and happy. Poor Georgia is fed up living with a pair of worn out old farts.


You don't sound worn out to me Pat - I'm constantly in awe of the energy you have and the amount of work you get thro. As well as being eternally grateful that I never thought of taking on a similar project!!


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

At the age of 12 year and 9 months he has decided there should be more people in his little life.

Here he is, without me by his side with Inis and Marko today, I haven´t seen him run to anyone as fast as he ran to Marko this morning since Hans.
and then Inis arrived. They keep a supply of treats for him, and why not. I was so pleased to see this today, it´s the first time he has gone to them on his own.


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

JanHank said:


> At the age of 1 year and 9 months he has decided there should be more people in his little life.
> 
> Here he is, without me by his side with Inis and Marko today, I haven´t seen him run to anyone as fast as he ran to Marko this morning since Hans.
> and then Inis arrived. They keep a supply of treats for him, and why not. I was so pleased to see this today, it´s the first time he has gone to them on his own.


I'm sure you've said he's older than that Miss Rude.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Pudsey_Bear said:


> I'm sure you've said he's older than that Miss Rude.


So he is so he is, a 2 went missing 12 years 9 months 13 years on June 30th, he will be at home for presents. :laugh:

Thanks Kev, I was in time to edit it.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Look what he did to me yesterday  not on purpose. We were playing in the garden and one of the things he loves doing is jumping over the tennis racket, yesterday he took off about one and a half meters from the racket, misjudged his jump and one of his back claws caught my hand, old, thin skin doesn't like that kind of treatment, and it´s on the hand that was burnt so even more delicate.


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh dear, look after that Jan n keep it clean!


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Ouch! 🥺


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have some wound spray I bought from Aldi, just noticed it’s called *Hans*aplast 😁. It makes a seal over the tear like a thin skin so no plaster needed.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

JanHank said:


> View attachment 98642


After spotting the computerised explanation of photos on Jeans post this morning I checked to see if my photos also had anything and this one says 

‘food ingredient liver fawn snout‘ 😂


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Two dogs at the vet, the first one is 18 months old and still wants to sit on his Dads lap  

The second one you know.
Blood tested in house this morning so results within 30 mins, he is fine, keep to the 1/4 tablet twice a day.
His weight has gone up which I am very pleased about now weighs 10.2 kg.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

He doesn't like people coming to the back, the Prime delivery did not follow my permanent instructions to leave the parcel in the front porch. This was his picture to show me where he left it, I was at home waiting at the front as I saw his van arrive, he was already at the back. Good job it was a light thing as my door opens out.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> Two dogs at the vet, the first one is 18 months old and still wants to sit on his Dads lap
> 
> The second one you know.
> Blood tested in house this morning so results within 30 mins, he is fine, keep to the 1/4 tablet twice a day.
> ...


Did you get the other owner's permission to photograph and publish?

German law is very strict on privacy - now.


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Did you get the other owner's permission to photograph and publish?
> 
> German law is very strict on privacy - now.


No Geoff and nobody would dream of doing anything about it, it’s a law nobody does anything about, but could If necessary.
To take the photo, he was fine about.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Hope it all gets sorted Jan. Perhaps take a few videos of his episodes to show the vet.

Terry


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

dghr272 said:


> Hope it all gets sorted Jan. Perhaps take a few videos of his episodes to show the vet.
> 
> Terry


I Don’t know what you just read Terry, but Motley is fine,


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> I Don’t know what you just read Terry, but Motley is fine,


For some reason the site brought up your first post from 31/Jan/2022, I hadn’t noticed the date then, hence my concern.

Terry


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I thought that was what had happened Terry, he Is back to his old self, an amazingly fit 13 year old who seems as if he will live forever.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

JanHank said:


> I thought that was what had happened Terry, he Is back to his old self, an amazingly fit 13 year old who seems as if he will live forever.


Morning Jan.

We are both earlybirds - even on CETime

I saw Terry's post on e-mail notifications so had to open thread as I know how important Motley is to you, so I am glad it was an error.

Geoff


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Morning Jan.
> 
> We are both earlybirds - even on CETime
> 
> ...


Morning Geoff,
I’ve been awake since 5.30, it happens a lot, sometimes I go to sleep again though after a cuppa.


----------

