# Face Masks



## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

It has been almost 12 months since face masks were introduced into this country yet day after day we see covidiots wearing them under their noses.

IT ONLY TAKES 12 MONTHS TO POTTY TRAIN A TODDLER FFS :leftfighter5::bad-words::director:

Dave


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Apparently you can't wear home made ones now.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I think that does not apply to UK, Ray. I think someone in Brussels has vested interests in mask production.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Ha ha thats after our Mairies distributed a few home made ones to all inhabitants and people (my wife) made another dozen.

Ray.


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

In Spain we have had to wear face masks for the last seven months in all public spaces incuding outdoors even on the beach only excepion when eating drinking or swimming i would say in our area there is 99% compliance.the only place you cannot wear cloth ones is at the hospital or doctors


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

bilbaoman said:


> In Spain we have had to wear face masks for the last seven months in all public spaces incuding outdoors even on the beach only excepion when eating drinking or swimming i would say in our area there is 99% compliance.the only place you cannot wear cloth ones is at the hospital or doctors


Overkill outdoors surely. I think their effectiveness is not that great anyway but outdoors and on a beach? So if I was the only person sunbathing on a beach I would have to wear a facemask? I just wouldnt bother going. What about in the sea?  I have seen people driving about in cars with them on on their own. seems a bit odd.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You are not supposed to touch them once you have one on. That is why people in cars are wearing them  If you take it off you have to put a clean one on. I am sure Brussels would love it as they obviously have shares in them


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

People here have no problem wearing them outdoors where there are other people. Even if it is nt very effective it does get people into the habit. Perhaps that is why there are practically no non waerers here, apart from the group of local old men at the bar/cafe in the mext town who started an outbreak.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

We get into the habit of donning a mask as soon as we leave the car for any reason. It's too easy to meet or come across someone and then feel embarrassed. 
Whats so difficult about wearing them and at last trying not to spread. 

Ray.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

raynipper said:


> Apparently you can't wear home made ones now.
> 
> Ray.


That's a French restriction Ray


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I only have one. With Sheep on it, made by some old dear in the dales. I only ever wear it if I go to the chippy and even there I just chuck my bag at them, pay contactless and wait outside. Im still dubious about how good they are. Why did they tell us for months they were not effective then all of a sudden they were? Maybe they didnt want the same run on masks as there was on bog rolls. I would not wear one outside here even if it was law. Its ridiculous. I could get on the bike here and ride for miles and not see another soul. WTF do I need a mask for? Mind you if I ever get called for a jab ill probably hire a space suit! :lol:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Just do as yer told. I know it's unusual and different but just try it.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

raynipper said:


> Just do as yer told. I know it's unusual and different but just try it.
> 
> Ray.


I do!! We dont have to wear masks outside here so Its not a problem. I can see perhaps that it might be useful in a crowded city. Memories of walking down Oxford street at rush hour spring to mind but this is what it looks like here. Why would I need a mask? Might infect that sheep I suppose. I just checked the latest Covid rate for Swaledale and its now gone White on the map meaning no infections or below 3 so no data.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

I think the reason they told us that masks were not effective was because they did not want us buying up all the PPE. Only when there was enough to go round did they suddenly decide they were useful. I only wear one when in and enclosed space.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Excuses, excuses. Lead by example.!

Ray.


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

barryd said:


> I do!! We dont have to wear masks outside here so Its not a problem. I can see perhaps that it might be useful in a crowded city. Memories of walking down Oxford street at rush hour spring to mind but this is what it looks like here. Why would I need a mask? Might infect that sheep I suppose. I just checked the latest Covid rate for Swaledale and its now gone White on the map meaning no infections or below 3 so no data.


Please dont show that photo to some one born in Derbyshire otherwise catching covid will be a minor problem for the sheep


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Or Wales we're told.

I live in a largely Asian area, quite a lot don't bother with them, the women just use their vails, despite this levels are fairly low, but we go shopping out of town, into what was a tier 2 area.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I would imagine the veils could be effective as long as they are either washed or sealed for three days between use 

Otherwise they are a breeding ground for Covid

We too live in an Asian area and quite a lot don’t bother with masks either

Some local supermarkets are at last insisting

The last trip to an Asian shop Albert pointed out the lack of masks to the guy on the till

He just shrugged 

Now I’m not saying that non Asians all wear masks, but living in a predominantly Asian community we are a minority in local shops 

We rarely shop outside the local community at the moment 

And find it hard to understand why people known to be susceptible to Covid blatantly ignore the rules

Ignorance or arrogance ?

Sandra


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

aldra said:


> I would imagine the veils could be effective as long as they are either washed or sealed for three days between use
> 
> Otherwise they are a breeding ground for Covid
> 
> ...


Sandra, would you not be better getting stuff delivered than shopping in places where they are not very good at following the rules? There is pretty much nothing you cant get online now and if there is, do you really need it?

Ive just had some really tragic news. One of my close friends (A retired farmer) caught covid after pretty much shielding for a year. We think he caught it from someone who came into his house for about ten minutes who then told him his wife had it. He died this afternoon. Thats all it took. Ten minutes of contact in a large room (assuming thats how he caught it).


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## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

The proper mask has to be worn here in shops, doctors anywhere indoors, it is because home made ones may not be made from suitable material.
I have 6 for 2€ for 2 months running plus they gave me a bottle of hand sanitiser when I got them it’s the over 60is who are being helped to make sure they can afford them. Yesterday I bought antihistamine tablets and was given another bottle of sanitiser. It’s all to do with protecting us nothing to do with making money for anyone, a lot of masks are made in China.

Sorry to here the farmer died Barry.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Very sorry to read about your old mate Baz, I know you valued his friendship.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It is very hard to forbid a visitor from entering your house especially here in Norfolk where everyone walks in and out of each others houses via the back door. We have tradesmen visiting the house all the time. Mostly we step outside and socially distance while we talk. One of the carpenters wanted to see the detailed drawings of the roof trusses and they were stored on my laptop. As I fetched the laptop he entered the house


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

It's much the same here. Everybody talks about how careful they are and in far too many cases their actions contradict what they say. I do believe that they think they are being careful, but haven't full understood the messages. The properly careful people are those we don't see because we don't go out and neither do they.

Luckily our house is finished but there are a few small external bits and pieces which need finishing. I've told the tradesmen that we'll wait till covid is considerably reduced before doing any more. They were coming and just walking in to he house to talk and if we took them outside they would not wear masks or keep their distance. I found myself walking round the site backwards talking to them as they kept trying to get up close. Every now and again I'd ask them to leave the distance between us, which they'd do for a minute or two and then just go back to normal.

I gave up.

Our builder and his partner have been friends of ours for 12 years now and normally we'd socialise two or three nights a week. We still did, outside, till October, but we found ourselves moving our seats back and them advancing all the time. In October when things here got bad again they kept going out to eat and for Sunday days out in the mountains to meet friends. We decided we wouldn't take the risk of getting close to them again for a while and used the onset of winter as an excuse for not socialising any more for now. We discussed the best way to do that at some length between ourselves and used all the tact we could muster. Still it seems to have caused offence, which is a pity.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes it's very sad we can't socialise as we used to. But it's the price we must pay to get through this unlike it seems many in UK who just disregard all the advice. Still see so many people on UK news without masks or socially distancing. 
I feel sorry for the police who have the job of 'educating' thick people and risking themselves in doing so.

We have so many friends we have only spoken to by phone for almost 12 months now. Luckily two couples we still see face to face although not as close as we would like. 

Ray.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Really sorry to hear of the death of your friend Barry

I rarely go out to shops only occasionally if I’m on the way back from a blood test ect I may pop in for offal for the hound, the butchers dept in the local Asian shop have a great selection of offal, I recently cooked a tongue, it was absolutely beautiful, never cooked one before but if we are going to kill an animal we should at least eat the whole of it 

Hopefully now we will all have a better chance as we roll out the vaccine

Last blood test still showing antibodies although I’d had the vaccine the week before

Average age in intensive care is now 60, worrying for the younger people in our society, so you take great care not to come into contact with Covid , age of infection is dropping fast 

Sandra


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Very sorry to hear of your farmer friend Barry. And so unnecessary.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

We went to one of the villages near here today to go to the pharmacy. That's the first time I've been anywhere for three weeks. It's a tiny village. There have been a few cases of covid there, but not many. 

Today as I waited outside the pharmacy there were three Brits and two Germans chatting just along the street, all wearing masks. I saw them meet up. Every one of them shook hands, without any hesitation and the stood close together chatting about golf, retirement and so on. Then a woman in a car came along and stopped beside them with her window open. She wasn't wearing a mask. Two of them went over and shook hands with her then crouched beside the open window to talk to her.

I was quite surprised. No precautions of any sort apart from those on the pavement wearing masks. This afternoon I heard that there are three cases in that village. I wonder if it's Brits and Germans. No wonder it's proving hard to get on top of it if that behaviour is mirrored everywhere.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I think the longer it goes the more complacent people become

Unless they either been very sick themselves or know someone who has

I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, and age wise it’s no longer only the elderly that are dying 

I don’t know if people forget, are stupid or just plain arrogant and won’t be told what to do

Our local Aldi and Asda now have notices up “no mask no entry,” as Albert did note a while back there were quite a few not using masks

I rarely go out and rely on Albert to take care, we can order and I do on my frozen food from Iceland

But normally it’s just a loaf of bread, fresh salad and veg, meat Alberts brother delivers in bulk, fish we get from Megs dad and freeze

We are lucky unlike those who need to shop when they have enough money or vouchers to do so

We still are supporting one child financially through this crisis, fortunately we are able to do so, but she a private teacher is anxious to get back to work 

We all need to stay alert to beat this virus, and doomsday sayers do nothing to support the take up in the vaccine

I think we should all have a vaccine card and only those whose health exempts them should not be vaccinated

Perhaps trains, planes ect can be arranged for those who choose not to take up the vaccine, those who can’t we will protect by ensuring we do

I don’t want mine put at risk by those who feel their freedom of choice is put at risk by needing to be vaccinated 

Have they no idea the devastation that can result by measles in a child not vaccinated, that parents who refuse the vaccination are relying on those that do to control the spread of measles and putting at risk those children that because of health reasons can’t?

Yep let’s all have freedom of choice, let’s all take responsibility for that choice, let there be repercussions for that choice 

You don’t want the vaccine, great stay segregated, you don’t want to wear a mask, don’t enter a public zone 

And remember polio, tuberculosis ect is a thing of the past due to vaccination 

It’s still rife in some areas in our world

We need to beat Covid here in the west and throughout our world

People are dying in vast numbers for want of a vaccine that some feel able to refuse as it is their right to 
refuse it

It’s my right not to mix with them on all public transport, in hotels and cruise ships , in the work place , school, university etc

At my age I’m not as likely too, but my kids and grandkids are

Sandra


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

The same thing happens in the dog world, Sandra. People rely on herd immunity to get away with not vaccinating their dogs. They do not admit it but they put forward all sorts of spurious reasons for not vaccinating. When you look into the detail they often have multiple dogs and you wonder how they afford them. Then you realise that it is a money thing. They want the attention that multiple dogs bring them but not the expense that vaccinating them brings. When questioned they will say "vaccines cause all sorts of allergies and health problems". Never mind that diseases cause even worse problems!

In humans perhaps we should say that if they turn down the vaccine they should fund their own health care if they should be struck down with the virus?


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

No for me they should not be entitled to use any public amenities, full stop

They have made their choice, I’ve made mine

I’m sure that over time private facilities will be available to those who choose not to vaccinate

I’m assuming they will be happy to pay for them to preserve their freedom of choice

Sandra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

The train leaving from platform 4

Takes any who have chosen to reject the Covid vaccine

Have a nice day

Sandra


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sadly most Governments have rejected ftb the idea of a "vaccination passport" as it would or could "infringe their civil liberties".

What utter claptrap.

It could make life much easier for those that have chosen to conform to the expectations of society. Is the implication of their thought process that murderers will no longer be imprisoned as it might infringe their civil liberty ?

If such passports existed and were mandatory, crossing borders could be made easier, haulage drivers could be required as a condition of employment, as could Care home staff, medics, nurses and even lowly window cleaners (ground floor only hence the term "lowly).

IMO the pluses greatly outweigh the minuses for everyone, coupled with what is likely to remain a negative CoVid test before International travel the travel industry might stand a chance of at least a limited recovery.

So, why the heck are so few people up in arms over the failure to have such a thing ? If the UK as a "world leader" introduced it unilaterally, I bet others would follow rapidly both for visitors and their citizens.

Where am I going wrong ? PS I am sure Boris could farm its production out for a few billion £. Dido does not seem to be doing much....


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

There is one being tested made as an app designed jointly by Mvine and Iproov backed by Innovate UK


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Is Baroness Dido Harding involved ?

Sadly, unless a Government, ANY Government backs the concept it will go the same way as the UK Test and Trace app..... (that DID have Hardings failings written throughout it).


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Please not an app! First we would have trouble downloading it (assuming we ever get to grips with a smartphone), then there would be the problem of lack of signal in lots of places.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

It now seems pretty certain that it was a neighbour that killed my friend. I use the word killed because that is essentially what he did. It seems he was always hanging around my friends place but went into his house knowing his wife had it and that clearly he also had it. Now my friend is dead after a year of being on his own and taking precautions. I even ordered all his shopping online for him via Tescos, he never went anywhere apart from a few places last summer before lockdown. 

This is what we are up against. Morons led be a Moron. A perfect storm. Poor government and selfish irresponsible idiots.

I am not sure I will go to the funeral. Its a tough decision. Partly because of safety and partly as its likely this bloke and his wife who have now recovered I believe will likely be there. Im not sure I could keep my mouth shut.

I think you are playing Russian roulette inside, regardless of social distancing or masks. There is plenty of evidence of this now.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That is a dreadful story Baz. I'm really sorry to hear it.


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## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

barryd said:


> It now seems pretty certain that it was a neighbour that killed my friend. I use the word killed because that is essentially what he did. It seems he was always hanging around my friends place but went into his house knowing his wife had it and that clearly he also had it. Now my friend is dead after a year of being on his own and taking precautions. I even ordered all his shopping online for him via Tescos, he never went anywhere apart from a few places last summer before lockdown.
> 
> This is what we are up against. Morons led be a Moron. A perfect storm. Poor government and selfish irresponsible idiots.
> 
> ...


Barry I suspect your friend wouldn't want you to put yourself at risk at his funeral as no doubt the same eejits that brought Covid to him will be crying crocodile tears there.
Pay your respects in your own private way, I'm sure he'd understand, there'll be better days to play the daredevil in your own inimitable way, usually on a scooter with a toilet cassette. :grin2:

Terry


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Oh no! That is so awful. You almost wish you didn't know I expect. It was so preventable


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I always try and wriggle out of going to funerals. After all it's too late and I would much prefer to remember the person as they were last seen rather than a box sliding between curtains.

Ray.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I would like to go but being told I am also high risk I suspect my friend would not want me to attend. I dont know, ill think about it. Maybe I wont get an invite anyway as I think numbers are limited. Its just so awful it makes me so angry. A few of us did our best to protect my friend and keep him from being so lonely as he was as best we could through video chats, remote sessions etc and then this. Wham! Done. Three days away from his vaccine.

I Dont know how the law stands on this but you should go to jail for this kind of thing. I bet its not an isolated incident also. Look at the examples we have though. Cummings and Barnard Castle anyone?


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

You should not go Baz. I definitely wouldn't it's far too risky.

A young friend of mine who is a doctor and been working in covid wards for the last year was telling me the other day that she'd been at a funeral for a fairly distant relation in the UK recently. 

She was invited and went assuming she'd be one of a limited number. When she arrived there were dozens of people shaking hands, hugging, chatting and not distancing, she didn't mention masks and I didn't think to ask. She said it was all she could do to stay back and keep quiet. She wanted to yell at them about how utterly stupidly the were behaving.

Nobody bothered her standing well back. She assumed they didn't know who she was not having seen her for many years. She didn't hang around.

It's the same with our friends here. We don't see them close up but we do message one another. They are running around eating out, having day trips, and meeting others while all the time telling us about how cautious they are and how they never go anywhere. That's even as they send us photos of where they are. He's my mate the builder who built our house. He's building another close by. I see him coming and going with materials, so while he says he doesn't go anywhere he's in town at the plumbers merchant, the electrical shop, the iron mongers and the building supply place. His teenage daughter from 30k away comes for weekends.

They are good friends and I do miss their company but I fecked if I'm taking those risks. We are a long way away from vaccinations here. Plenty of time for another wave as things begin to open up again.

Don't go to that funeral Baz. We'd all miss you.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> You should not go Baz. I definitely wouldn't it's far too risky.
> 
> A young friend of mine who is a doctor and been working in covid wards for the last year was telling me the other day that she'd been at a funeral for a fairly distant relation in the UK recently.
> 
> ...


Cheers. I agree. Decision made. Ill not go. Very sad but sensible I think. I suspect it may well be like that given the stupidity of some of the locals where he lived. My knees are so knackered I couldnt really hang about outside for long either.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Are you on the list for a knee replacement Barry? Chris had a double replacement done a while back but they are getting knackered now. Was supposed to be two half replacements but one had to be a total in the end. 
Before Covid struck he was getting to the point where he would go and start the ball rolling for them to be replaced again. Have heard rumours that the new ones are better than the old ones?


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

patp said:


> Are you on the list for a knee replacement Barry? Chris had a double replacement done a while back but they are getting knackered now. Was supposed to be two half replacements but one had to be a total in the end.
> Before Covid struck he was getting to the point where he would go and start the ball rolling for them to be replaced again. Have heard rumours that the new ones are better than the old ones?


They kept putting me off for years, said I was way too young and they cannot guarantee repeat operations would be successful. I need to lose some weight before they would do them anyway but i asked my GP to refer me to a Physio the other week which apparently is the procedure for getting referred for surgery. I guess it will be a year or two or more before they get to me. Hopefully I will have slimmed down a bit by then!


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## bilbaoman (Jun 17, 2016)

barryd said:


> They kept putting me off for years, said I was way too young and they cannot guarantee repeat operations would be successful. I need to lose some weight before they would do them anyway but i asked my GP to refer me to a Physio the other week which apparently is the procedure for getting referred for surgery. I guess it will be a year or two or more before they get to me. Hopefully I will have slimmed down a bit by then!


Maybe Brexit will help by restricting the imports of Leffe:frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Our friend is rather large and has had two knee replacements due to sport. But they have said no more and just given him a blue badge.

Ray.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It was the saving of Chris. His were plumber knees. Completely worn out. He could not walk across the road in the end so it was really wonderful when they did them. He had both done on the same day which many are surprised at but it worked for him.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

bilbaoman said:


> Maybe Brexit will help by restricting the imports of Leffe:frown2::frown2::frown2:


LOL! I pretty much stopped drinking beer about two years ago. Scotch and wine now.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

barryd said:


> LOL! I pretty much stopped drinking beer about two years ago. Scotch and wine now.


You kept that quiet !

I could have sworn that a case of Leffe was one of your favourite ways of relaxing after a hard day on the scooter sailing up and/or down Alpine Bergs....  :surprise:


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## DJMotorhomer (Apr 15, 2010)

barryd said:


> They kept putting me off for years, said I was way too young and they cannot guarantee repeat operations would be successful. I need to lose some weight before they would do them anyway but i asked my GP to refer me to a Physio the other week which apparently is the procedure for getting referred for surgery. I guess it will be a year or two or more before they get to me. Hopefully I will have slimmed down a bit by then!


I have Rugby League/American Football knees and I too was in pain every day, being to young then for replacements, a fantastic chiropodist of all people put me on to Vasyli foot orthotics and I have never looked back. No knee pain now at all. They are not cheap at around £40 a pair for the 3/4 length type but well worth it. Just bought a new pair after 5 YEARS.

The chiropodist told me it may feel like I was walking on golf balls to start but that I would get used to it, but in fact it felt like I was walking on air.
Boots Chemist etc do similar things but they are not at good. I think they are to treat Plantar Fasciitis as well but I swear by them and I am no lightweight lol.

Dave :wink2:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Penquin said:


> You kept that quiet !
> 
> I could have sworn that a case of Leffe was one of your favourite ways of relaxing after a hard day on the scooter sailing up and/or down Alpine Bergs.... :surprise:


It was but how long since Ive been up an Alp?


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

DJMotorhomer said:


> I have Rugby League/American Football knees and I too was in pain every day, being to young then for replacements, a fantastic chiropodist of all people put me on to Vasyli foot orthotics and I have never looked back. No knee pain now at all. They are not cheap at around £40 a pair for the 3/4 length type but well worth it. Just bought a new pair after 5 YEARS.
> 
> The chiropodist told me it may feel like I was walking on golf balls to start but that I would get used to it, but in fact it felt like I was walking on air.
> Boots Chemist etc do similar things but they are not at good. I think they are to treat Plantar Fasciitis as well but I swear by them and I am no lightweight lol.
> ...


Thanks for that tip Dave. I have a chiropodist appointment for all me corns and callouses on Tuesday so I will ask if it is worth Chris pursuing.


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

barryd said:


> LOL! I pretty much stopped drinking beer about two years ago. Scotch and wine now.


Is it gout that's wrecking your knees?


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## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

patp said:


> Thanks for that tip Dave. I have a chiropodist appointment for all me corns and callouses on Tuesday so I will ask if it is worth Chris pursuing.


My daughter is a podiatrist n when I was having a problem with my hip years ago she did all the measurements and gait observations n ordered me a pair of custom orthotics. It wasn't an immediate cure but I became aware weeks later that I was no longer having problems.

I had tried the 'off-the-shelf' ones previously with no real improvement.

They're not cheap tho - at the time 'off-the-shelf' were about £30 and custom made more like £130. But so worth it for me.


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

patp said:


> Thanks for that tip Dave. I have a chiropodist appointment for all me corns and callouses on Tuesday so I will ask if it is worth Chris pursuing.


I'll second how good they are as I used them for plantar fasciitis problems until I got made to measure supporting insoles.

They were great and very effective (I still prefer them now, 20 years later) to the m2m ones, my only comment is that they make you walk a little higher and that means you are a little less stable from "turning your ankle". That was made worse in mine due to nerve damage in both feet so I never know what they are going...

But those insoles are great.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

erneboy said:


> Is it gout that's wrecking your knees?


Nope. Just advanced Arthritis. The only thing that will cure it is new knees but clearly losing weight will help. I had xrays in December and they are to quote the technical term, Knackered.


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## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

A friend lost shed loads of weight when his regular darts sessions were cancelled due to Covid. His knee problem is so much better now.


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Of course excess weight affects arthritis 

Arthritis affects exercise 

A double whammy 

Albert has put weight on and his knees are much worse

Soon it’s Lent and we will both fast, his knees will improve with the weight loss but he will still have arthritis 

A painful, disabling condition 

Sandra


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