# Mountain Driving



## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

This last weekend we did a tour of some potential ski areas here in Italy, trying to locate parking areas. We passed from Bolzano going East back to Belluno. Now I think I'm pretty good with the mountain driving. I have a good amount of experience on ski trips etc. But not much experience driving a truck/MH in the mountains. So in spite of a lot of down shifting on the downhill runs the brakes on our Hymer got a good workout and the smell of hot brake pads was evident after some long runs. That makes me a bit nervous. So I'm wondering if others have techniques that I don't know about. I can't imagine what they might be but one never knows.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

I've never been in that situation so I cannot say but my own gut reaction would be to brake in short bursts rather than holding the brake on continuously - give the discs and pads some time to cool.

I suppose that some scientific boffin will shoot me down in flames though because the energy (heat) generated could be the same in both cases? Sometimes wish I'd done sciences at school instead of languages but I hated Physics when the time came to choose.

JohnW


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

Wizzo said:


> I've never been in that situation so I cannot say but my own gut reaction would be to brake in short bursts


Well it does have a name:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_braking


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Breaking the Brakes*

Hello,

If we are doing a lot of climbing or decending, I find it is a good idea to stop sy halfway down a very deep decent and allow the brakes to cool a little.

All the advice I have I am afraid.

Trev.


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## bikemad99 (Aug 17, 2006)

I was always told when driving heavy goods,to use the same gear going down hill as you would need if going up the hill. This means you need less braking.

Reg.


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## eddied (May 9, 2005)

*Mountain descending*

 Buon giorno jhelm,
we have some pretty rought mountains down here too. I have a 25 Km mountainous road on the way out or home, before I hit a road where I can engage 4th or 5th gear. I can but echo Reg. never go down a mountain road in a higher gear than you would use to go up it. Only ever touch the brakes on a hairpin.
saluti,
eddied


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## Vennwood (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi,

I use pretty much the same method as Reg and resist the temptation to go faster to appease the cars behind and keep the van speed down. I realise that they will be pulling out and nipping back in and getting uperty, but at the end of the day it would be our van over the edge not theirs. If its a long hill (up or down) we try to pull in halfway to cool down both engine and brakes.

Not much help I guess but every little helps as a well known supermarket says.....


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## Carper (Aug 15, 2007)

jhelm said:


> This last weekend we did a tour of some potential ski areas here in Italy, trying to locate parking areas. We passed from Bolzano going East back to Belluno. Now I think I'm pretty good with the mountain driving. I have a good amount of experience on ski trips etc. But not much experience driving a truck/MH in the mountains. So in spite of a lot of down shifting on the downhill runs the brakes on our Hymer got a good workout and the smell of hot brake pads was evident after some long runs. That makes me a bit nervous. So I'm wondering if others have techniques that I don't know about. I can't imagine what they might be but one never knows.


Hi

I have done a fair bit of mountain driving. As the previous posters have suggested, select a low gear and break in small bursts.

I have not had a problem with brakes overheating, but did see a Kontiki in the Dolomites, parked up with smoke coming from the front discs.

If i have a few cars behind me, i tend to pull over and let them pass. They normally show their appreciation this with a toot and a wave.....at least i think its a wave :lol:

Don't be too worried about the strange noises coming from the cupboards. It will be the crisp packets bursting, and the pop bottles trying to do likewise

Doug


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

I never tried braking in short bursts. Not too sure if it helps or not, but I will try it. I do downshift, however, I wonder how high one wants the rpms to go. When they get over 3,000 I start to wonder if it might not be so good for the engine. Driving a car this always seemed to work fine but with all the weight of a MH speed and or rpms build up pretty fast. Thus one has to use the breaks anyway. That's the problem I found, inspite of using a low gear one must still use the brakes a lot. I don't mind going slow and do pull over when a bunch of cars are behind me.

I suppose stoping for a rest is a good idea.

The road from Selva down to Canazei is a lot of fun, true hairpins one after the other, verysteep and places where if you encounter a bus coming up the hill there is no way the two of you can pass.


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## Wizzo (Dec 3, 2007)

hilldweller said:


> Well it does have a name:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_braking


I wasn't thinking of anything as rapid as cadence braking - that really is a manual form of abs braking. I would probably use a 3 or 4 second burst of braking, combined with being in a low gear and then letting it roll until I needed to use a bit more.

JohnW


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Passes*

Hi

Fairly close to where you live are the Pordoi and Sella passes. Best thing I can advise there is go up and down in the same gear - if that needs to be first so be it.

Russell

For roads like that, I wish that motorhomes were fitted with a Telma retarder.


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

Hi,

have done more mountain driving with my MH than with any other vehicle. Including Sognefjell and Orneveien in Norway.

If brakes start smelling, then this is by itself not dangerous. However it is the final warning before brake fade occurs. And brake fade is something you really do not want to encounter while driving down a mountain pass.

When mountain driving, you have to keep in mind that not only the bakes can slow down your vehicle. The engine, if correctly applied, can do that, too. However, with modern diesel engines having very high torque already at rather low revvs, I would tend to modify the old "same gear downhill as uphill" rule slightly: _"When going downhill, always take one gear lower than when going up the same hill."_

@ Wizzo:

Don't worry, no shooting! :wink:

In fact, you are (almost) right. No matter whether you brake continuously or not, the amount of energy that needs to be transformed into heat is the same. However, by applying the right driving technique you can make the engine take a bigger share, and you can stretch the whole process over a longer period of time. The former can be achieved by selecting a lower gear, and the latter by simply _doing it slower!_

So: The longer you need to get down, the less stress for the brakes. (Maybe not the same for your nerves, though, but that's not physics, I'm afraid... :wink: )

So, my recommendations for downhill driving a MH:

Select an appropriate, low gear. And select it already when on top of the mountain, before you enter the slope. The gear should be such that the vehicle accelerates only very slightly when unbraked.
After having selected this gear, don't touch the clutch, or the accelerator anymore.
Let the vehicle roll along straight road stretches. Ideally, the vehicle does not exceed a comfortable driving speed while on a straight part of the descent, leaving the brakes for the bends.
When approaching a bend, brake down firmly. Especially at hairpin bends, be aware that another large vehicle could come up the other way, forcing you to stop completely. After having passed the bend, release the brake _completely_, giving it time to cool down before the next bend.
In general, do not stand on the brakes for longer periods. If you really have the feeling that speed gets out of control, then brake down firmly, and use the moment of low speed to switch down one more gear.
Most important: Completely ignore any flashing and hooting sports cars behind you! They most probably have better brakes than you, and certainly the lighter vehicle. And if their drivers go mad, then this is entirely their own problem.

And if your outfit is really heavy, then you might want to consider retrofitting a retarder.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Ok so we use a low gear, even first, but how high do we let the revs go? 

We did have some good lines behind us yesterday, I pulled over a couple of times, but there were no honking horns or ugly looks, polite drivers I guess. Except a bus driver who I suppose thought we didn't give him enough room when we stopped to let him pass on a curve. He didn't even appreciate the fact that we saw him coming way down the hill and waited for him to arrive. 

In fact on a side note I'm beginning to have a certain level of dislike for those big tour busses the drivers tend to be rude, like they own the road and then they dump off hundreds of tourists, clogging up everything.

Passo Sella


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

jhelm said:


> Ok so we use a low gear, even first, but how high do we let the revs go?


Hi,

don't let them get into the red area on the counter. In fact I tend to keep them at up to 3600-3700. If you still feel comfortable with your downhill speed at these revs, and don't expect the road to get any steeper, then you might want to select a higher gear.

The idea behind driving down in low gear is to prevent the vehicle from building up too much speed during the unbraked intervals.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## shackman (May 6, 2007)

Good post this! It's a question I have often asked myself in the past when car driving in mountains. But, like JHELM asked, I am confused as to how high the revs can go before engine damage?

Now I'm a motor-homer. The next van I am getting is 5 tons, so I can imagine all that weight mass on a steep downhill slope. With the correct low gear, surely the revs must be screaming and the only way to ease that is either a higher gear or the brakes. The net result is MORE constant brake use to lower the revs. Any answers please?

The next van is also going to be using the new Fiat auto gear change system. Is there a further technique when using an auto model?


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## SpeedyDux (Jul 13, 2007)

I basically agree with Wizzo. Short periods of hard braking to bring the speed right down, then off the brake pedal altogether to allow the brakes to cool. Modern disk brakes should handle that. Avoid long periods of continuous gentle braking - that will probably cause the disk pads to overheat, as well as risk boiling the brake fluid.

Be gentle with your gearbox too, because they cost a lot more to replace than new brake pads. I wouldn't want to put too much heat into the gearbox on a long descent (or ascent, for that matter). I'm also not sure what adverse effects it might have, if you effectively use the engine as an air pump for prolonged descents without drawing any fuel into the cylinder heads. Maybe some diesel engine expert know the answer.


SD


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

hi SD not really an expert but dont think much harm would come from overrun for long periods.. oil still going around, engine would also cool down nicely from the uphill bit that may have got you in this position 


Auto boxes may be a different matter, starting to scare myself now with the though of all that weight and not much engine braking... 8O


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## Boff (May 10, 2005)

shackman said:


> With the correct low gear, surely the revs must be screaming and the only way to ease that is either a higher gear or the brakes.


If revs are "screaming" while going downhill, then either you have indeed selected a too low gear. _Or you are simply too fast!_ The ideal scenario would be if, after having braked down in a bend, the vehicle builds up just enough speed that you can easily brake it down again just before the next bend.

Do release the brake completely from time to time, but don't let the vehicle build up too much momentum. And, as said: Completely ignore any angry drivers behind you. It is your responsibility to bring your 5 ton van including all passengers down the hill safely. Not theirs.

Regarding automatic gearboxes I cannot help. I would not want one in my MH, and my ordinary car has, strictly speaking, no gearbox at all.

Best Regards,
Gerhard


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## Don_Madge (May 1, 2005)

There's been some very good advice given here.

Many years ago somebody gave my some advice that stuck in my mind and still I use today if necessary. "Brake at the skid marks" 8O 

Don


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