# No Europe Next Year, 2009?



## devonidiot

How many are re-considering their plans for European touring next year due to the falling value of the pound  

It does seem strange that the price of diesel is still falling in the UK despite the weakness of our currency :?


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## wobby

I'm not, we are heading off end of at the January, we have had to wait until I retired so now it's time to spend a little.

Wobby


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## vicdicdoc

Whatever the state of £ exchange against the euro, we're NOT going to stop going over the channel . . you've got to buy food, fuel etc here so its not going to be much different [I hope] to buy in France - even if its going to cost a touch more at least we'll have the opportunity of driving south till we hit the sun !


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## thieawin

Remember

1. you pay for ferry/chunnell in sterling... no change

2. you pay for insurance, maintainance etc in sterling...no change

3. The Euro is very strong against the dollar, oil in dollar terms is its lowest forfor 5 yeras. In Euro terms it is 20% cheaper again so actual travel costs for fuel wikl be lower in spite of the £ ...cheaper than last yera or last two or three years

5. Yes toll costs will be 30 % higher, so will food and campsite costs.
The food you can sort by having cheaper cuts, vegetavles, shopping at Aldi and sacrificing the drink for a cheaper bottle. Toll costs are optional on most routes as you can avoid motorways

So its only the campsites, stay away from the coasts and the most popular areas do a few aires in France and it will cost no more anyway, Stay as nornal and over 30 nights at €25 per night its an extra £240

Of course as ever you can save the tolls and the ferry cost by staying home and you can save on campsites by using certificated sites or going ofthe beaten track to scotland or wales or going out of peak seasonl


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## MikeCo

I will not stop us, Feb and March in Spain, 6 weeks in June/July probably France, 6 weeks September/Oct, maybe France perhaps Italy although I fancy Norway again.


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## RichardnGill

It will make the Uk seem better value, but for us we will still cross the channel for our main holls.

We stop in the UK for the rest of our hols thought the year.


Richard...


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## EJB

Norway overland next year. Via Holland, Germany, Denmark and Sweden.


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## locovan

You shouldn't let it stop you life is for living spend it you cant take it with you. :lol: 
We are doing our first trip abroad mid Jan as we have now got the dogs passport and I hope its the first trip of many.
We spent a fortune travelling around Uk staying in Camp sites where the prices have gone up, the dearest being £32.00 per night at Aldeburgh the rest was in holiday sites all C&CC at £6.00 per night.
Fuel was at its highest then so I really don't see it will be any dearer abroad for 2-3 months.
I will pack as much food as I can in the Motorhome and buy local fruit and bread and meat. :lol:


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## CurlyBoy

*Europe(France)next year*

I'm in agreement with you all, we've booked the chunnel(£2 THANKS TO TESCO) so taking into account the slight difference in fuel cost,Aires and cheaper campsites in France it will be no more expensive to holiday in France than to stay here and be ripped off by exhorbitant campsite charges! 
curlyboy


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## DABurleigh

Well if I could split my time between here and continental Europe it might be a question, but the 3 weeks in a year I can afford to do it time-wise is not negotiable £ wise. I'm still going!!

Dave


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## Carper

Hi

We will definitely going over the channel next year, irrespective of the exchange rate. It mat cost a bit more, but i think it is worth it :lol: 

Doug


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## karlaltra

*Europe*

As soon as I get my van up together I'm going over. Thanks Locovan for reminding me about a passport for my dog- I couldn't leave her behind! From my experience with campsites in England they seem to be expensive so I'd rather be able to get closer to the equator and chase the sun! It will be my first trip abroad with a van. Anyway, I feel duty bound to go 1) To catch up with friends of mine and 2) To open my daughter's head to the fact that there are many better places to be than Portsmouth!


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## greenasthegrass

Yep we are still going! almost guaranteed a bit warmer weather in France. We shall be going more south this year. Its not so much cost its the change in scenery and we liked France this year alot.

Greenie


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## Patchworkqueen

Hi We still plan to go.
I agree with other posts if you plan it will be no more expensive than last year. Take as much non perishable food with you and buy at local markets for fresh produce.
Fuel costs will be no more than last year and certainly less than travelling in UK.
Campsite fees will be more than last year but again much less than in UK especially in the summer. Going out of main season and using Camping Cheques, Acsi and Municipal sites reduces the campsite fees. 

We will go abroad as long as our health permits. Life is for living and as someone else said you can't take it with you when go, shrouds don't have pockets.
Any money in a bank account will be loosing value as the interest rates are not even keeping up with inflation at the moment. We will be lucky to be getting 2% interest next year.

Chris


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## Briarose

Hi having just returned I can confirm we were shocked at how prices had risen due to the euro, last year for instance you could pick up a litre of whisky for around £6 in northern spain (and that was in places that were not that touristy) but wow when we looked last week prices were no cheaper than the uk.............on the routes we travelled and places we stayed this seemed to be pretty much the case all over.

Supermarket prices were high too, for all sorts of things steak, lamb chops etc etc and to be honest once we arrived home I did think when shopping back to cheaper prices..........in the UK.

However not all doom and gloom for me the lighter nights, the brighter days compensated also the better roads no traffic jams etc etc I was ready to return home but I tell you what if someone said to me 'this time next week you will be back abroad in your MH' I would be there like a shot.

You pays your money and you makes your choice and to be honest I think the days of cheap holidays to Spain/Portugal etc etc are long gone.........the only thing we did say was with not having brill weather anyway in Portugal we wished we had toured France and saved all that fuel money on this particular occasion.


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## TR5

We shall be going through the tunnel in March probably, I have a crossing to use up which had to be cancelled due to the fire, when we had to take a ferry at the last minute.


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## 101405

Drop in the Number of uk visiters to Spain is around 24/%.and lots of expats are returning to a GB because its too expensive to live here for some. You will find a great Difference with uk prices ,Talking to a friend staying on Laguna- playa ( TDM) ,who said he thought prices where about 4x uk costs, Markets are not the cheapest places to buy in tourist areas and very often the quality is poor , small local shops are often cheaper ,Aldi and Lidl have limited choice ,Mercadona best! France ! Was always expensive and even more so now , but using Aires -de -Services should help costs there. this is a good time for europeans to go and Spend Spend in the uk , You have the best supermarkets ,and prices are pretty good all round.


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## zulurita

We will still be going. One ferry booked already, cheaper than the Tunnel. But will probably book the tunnel for Sept.


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## peedee

I have booked my main holiday in a US$ region but may still use the tunnel next June. Those that have already booked a Euro holiday appear to be in the minority, see >this< BBC news story.

peedee


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## Rapide561

*Europe*

Hi

My initial thoughts are "no" but then on reflection.......

1) Fuel is getting cheaper. In April this year I paid 1.14 euro per litre in Luxembourg based on a rate of about 1.25 to the pound. At present, diesel is 0.80 euro per litre and based at 1.00 euro per litre, the cost is less.

2) Offset the cost of shipping by using Tesco and the tunnel.

3) Research fuel prices in France etc to maximise any potential savings. Fuel varies by as much as 15 cents per litre in the Calais area.

4) Not one for me, but aires instead of campsites?

5) Use ACSI and camping cheques etc.

My bottom line thought would be - if I want to go, I shall go.

Russell


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## Bob45

*Europe or not this coming year*

I am with Russel here. 
Our tunnel already booked with TESCO vouchers (costs me £2.00)
We use ACSI and Castels Privelege Card and maybe Camping Cheques this year as well.
We are going for 2 months and I try to see it not as a holiday but more as a change in lifestyle. Buy cheaper wine and look out for where the locals shop and eat - especially at lunchtime.
Roll on May 14th.
Bob


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## ramos

Hi
You all talk about Tesco Vouchers on the Forum 
What is this about and how do I claim 
I have googled but only get forums not the actual info of how you claim them.


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## Wupert

RichardnGill said:


> It will make the Uk seem better value, but for us we will still cross the channel for our main holls.
> 
> We stop in the UK for the rest of our hols thought the year.
> 
> Richard...


PM'd you this morning


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## Bob45

*Tesco Vouchers - for Ramos*

Shopping at Tesco gives you Clubcard points which Tesco turn into vouchers to respend at the stores or use them on a variety of other offers such as the Channel Tunnel. The value of the points from your Clubcard are multiplied by FOUR so £30 worth of clubcard points becomes £120 for paying for the Chunnel! Try Tesco.com
What a bargain.
Bob45


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## ramos

*Re: Tesco Vouchers - for Ramos*



Bob45 said:


> Shopping at Tesco gives you Clubcard points which Tesco turn into vouchers to respend at the stores or use them on a variety of other offers such as the Channel Tunnel. The value of the points from your Clubcard are multiplied by FOUR so £30 worth of clubcard points becomes £120 for paying for the Chunnel! Try Tesco.com
> What a bargain.
> Bob45


Thanks for explaining that I will get the wife to spend more at Tesco now :lol: 
It is a great Bargain


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## putties

If some do cancel as it leaves more room for me. i spent less than £10.00 on accomodation last year so its still half price including fuel that costa plenty.

Putties


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## peedee

peee'd off with Tescos vouchers this year, so much of their policy has changed that I am finding it more difficult to use them. My major use was for hotel stop overs and it now appears they have limited them to weekend breaks only and mid week stays are no longer possible. Grrrr.

Croatia could be a good place to visit next year whilst they are still not in the Euro zone.

peedee


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## Annsman

We're going in 12 sleeps  For a 6 month tour. No doubt real life will intervene but you've just got to go otherwise what's it all about! Besides we've told the van it's going and I couldn't bear to disappoint it now, it's all excited and everything  

The info about Tesco vouchers is only valid if you haven't got a LPG tank on your van, because they're not allowed on the train. I'm not sure what the standing of re-fillable cylinders is though.


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## greenasthegrass

Compared to the £2500 we used to spend on package tours £1300 for 2 and a bit weeks in France this year was a bargain. We have booked the Tunnel with clubcard points and it cost us nothing for an August crossing - just waiting for Jan 2010 to come online.

Takes us all year to save up the points though but they don't expire for ages.

Here's Russells easy peasy Tesco's clubcard doofer.

"Beginners guide to Tesco/ Ferries/ Tunnel" http://motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-448287.html#448287

Greenie :lol:


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## peedee

I have a shed load of club card points to use, I also get them with my gas and electricity bills, some will expire shortly. If I exchange them for tunnel tickets how long are the tunnel ticket vouchers then valid for and is the price you pay the listed price or can you buy tunnel offers with them?

peedee


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## buttons

Will there be room for us to stay here? 
The exchange rate is sure to entice hoards of Ducth and the rest over for a cheep holiday. they will be watching their spending too. The UK will look like a very good option.


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## greenasthegrass

Think they last for 3 months (could be 6 though) from date of exchange and you can only use them for normal prices. Think you can change the vouchers and book a trip well advance though. Gerrem booked ya know you wanna!!!!

Greenie


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## peedee

Good points Greenie, Thanks.

peedee


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## Rapide561

*Tesco*



peedee said:


> I have a shed load of club card points to use, I also get them with my gas and electricity bills, some will expire shortly. If I exchange them for tunnel tickets how long are the tunnel ticket vouchers then valid for and is the price you pay the listed price or can you buy tunnel offers with them?
> 
> peedee


Hi

1) The Tesco voucher that you have will have an expiry date on them. This date is usually two years from the date of the Clubcard statement to which the vouchers are attached. So, vouchers received in your August 2008 statement maybe spent in store or redeemed for deals until 2010.

2) Once you swap your Tesco vouchers for Tesco deal coupons, the deal coupons have a further validity date. In the case of Eurotunnel, the Tesco/Eurotunnel deal tokens are valid for 6 months. Note that the booking for the crossing must be made within six months, not the journey.

Regards and compliments of the season

Rusky


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## peedee

Thanks Russel, I was saving mine for airport hotel stop overs but have just found out I now cannot use them.  I will now start planning a tunnel trip.

peedee


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## C7KEN

The thermometer on our veranda is showing 30deg right now and Sue is laid our on a balcony sun bathing. That's why people come here and although it is not so cheap as it was I think they will continue to come. We dont find it as expensive as England but we tend to live outdoors in the sun like the Spanish. Furthermore son Mark and me are buying property at bargain prices as people panic. Maximum five years from now they will come back when the doom and gloom in the UK increases and the dull rainy days do nothing to bring any cheer and we will reap the rewards


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## locovan

Talking about gas on the Tunnel trip
We E mailed Euro tunnel and asked if we could take a spare gas bottle in side stored in our bathroom and we have a reply back. 

Many people are under the misconception that you cant take a spare bottle other than those in the gas locker. 
This is not true you are allowed to take gas bottles with a total quantity of 47kg as long as they are secured. 
So we are able to take 2 x 6kg in the locker and up to 35 kg inside so long as it is secured. 
We will infact be taking a 13kg in the bathroom and will have it secured. 
I will take a copy of the email to prove we have permission to do so.


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## greenasthegrass

How would you secure it in the bathroom? ooh good info there cos if we go skiing next year gas was going to be an issue.


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## locovan

greenasthegrass said:


> How would you secure it in the bathroom? ooh good info there cos if we go skiing next year gas was going to be an issue.


We are able to put a strap in the bathroom to strap it in to secure it. 
I take it where ever you can secure it it will be OK we have other places we could put a strap on the wood.
I will put a copy of the email properly on here when Ray puts his computer on later The one we sent and the reply as they actually got confirmation from higher up to.


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## locovan

greenasthegrass said:


> How would you secure it in the bathroom? ooh good info there cos if we go skiing next year gas was going to be an issue.


As promised the email reply to our asking could we carry a spare inside our Motorhome we can secure it in the Bathroom.

From: Sales Support Team
Date: 18/12/2008 13:09:41
To: 
Subject: RE: ukphelpcontactus [Info] nye

Thank you for your email Mr Nye. We received one from your wife earlier but have been waiting for clarification from our Check-In staff.

Basically you can carry up to 47kg of LPG for domestic use. Canisters should be made of metal or polyester and must be switched off and carried securely.

Kind regards

Eurotunnel Sales Support Team

PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR ORIGINAL E-MAIL WITH ANY REPLY

Sales Support Team
Eurotunnel Group
UK Terminal
Ashford Road
Folkestone
Kent CT18 8XX

Tel. UK - 08705 35 35 35
France - 0321 00 61 00
Belgium - 070 22 32 10
Holland - 0900 5040540
Germany - 0180 500 0248
Fax. - (01303) 288784
E-Mail. [email protected] < mailto:[email protected]>
(SH)


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## Grizzly

We will go as planned, to Rome and possibly Sicily.

We're not going for the sunshine or for cheaper prices but we are going for a respite from the gloom and doom here every time you switch on radio or TV or catch a newspaper headline. We're going to meet different people, see different sights and get away from life in busy Britain.

We'll shop sensibly as always and I don't expect our bills will be hugely different for day to day living. We'll stay at more aires and not push the van above 60mph. Wine will still be cheaper and we haven't bought cheaper spirits for years.

We don't keep a running record of what we spend when abroad but, if prices have gone up by x % then I'll expect the holiday to cost us the same as always, plus x %. That x % spreads itself over the rest of the year in terms of happy memories and folders of photos.

Worth every penny !

G


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## sideways

You can go on tunnel with a fixed LPG tank for domestic use not for running the engine on, you just turn it off like any other gas bottle.


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## locovan

Have Faith my son has just emailed this to me from Spain
And from the Prime minister:- 

Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero Thursday predicted the country's slumping economy would begin to recover in the second half of 2009 after suffering a difficult period. 
"We are going to go through some bad months, but there is a certain and solid recovery on the horizon," he said in an interview with the television channel Cuatro. 
"In the second half (of 2009) we are going to have some data that points to a recovery.... We are going to emerge to strong from this crisis." 
He also predicted inflation would drop to under 2.0 percent this year and to 1.0 percent "at the most" in 2009. 
Spanish 12-month inflation plummeted to 2.4 percent in November from 3.6 percent in October, hitting its lowest rate since August 2007. 
Spain's economy was until very recently one of the most dynamic in the eurozone but it began to cool in 2007 as the international credit crunch hit an already weakened real estate sector, putting an end to a decade-long property boom


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## 101405

I dont think its likely to happen .The housing market here is far worse than the uk , and not many Spanish will be buying houses at the Inflated prices asked. like the uk its economy is relying on its housing market, lots of housing projects have stopped or are heavily discounted. the new car market took a big hit like the uk. 
Spain like the uk is also a service economy and relies on tourism a great deal and this has already started to drop off . 
but I hope his predicciones comes true.


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## Dopeyngrumpy

Hi all ,

I agree 

Just can't see any alternatives, was in Paris in August and it was painful then - 8 Euro for a beer = £5 then ... the prospect of £8 is a real ouch... I know there are economies that can be made but where is the fun in that... then look to go somewhere far flung, they're all dollar based and the rates are as bad - from $2 this time last year to $1.3 or $1.4..... unless you've a yen for Eastern Europe what options exist? and before some bright spark suggests it - the UK is out, last summer we spent 2 absolutely deplorable weeks in Cornwall in the summer, the wettest on record, and I have to say that the tourist trade was just not up to the job. Spent a packet and came back more worn out than when I went. 

Now as Christmas is here it's time to plan Easter and try to find ways to re-engage the teenage element with the motorhoming I enjoy so much... and tear him away from his beloved consoles/PC/Internet etc. etc. etc. First stop Easter!

David


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## Sonesta

Having just returned from Portugal we found eating out and supermarket prices were very high compared to the UK and of course fuel prices have shot through the roof too - but despite the price increases we still enjoyed a wonderful trip and we made the most of every moment. 

What price do you put on enjoyment and fulfillment though and can you really put a price on happiness? Personally I think not and I believe if you feel you can stretch your finances just that little bit further, than I would strongly encourage anyone to not let the price increases put them off travelling to Europe too much! I personally would suggest they just throw caution to the wind and simply tighten their belts a notch or two! LOL!  

To my way of thinking the beauty and freedom of motorhoming means holidays can be as expensive or as cheap as you want them to be! If you like to wildcamp or stay on aires, then you can reduce your campsite fees quite dramatically and of course with having cooking facilities onboard you can make some delicious meals, using local produced products. We found that a trip to a local fish, meat or fruit & vegetable market is generally a lot cheaper than you will ever find in any of the supermarkets and the quality of the produce, with it being all fresh from the sea, fields and farms means it is first class, quality food too! 

So, my advice to anyone who wants to travel to Europe - is to do exactly that; as life is too short to put off doing what you want to do isn't it? And if your budget really cannot stretch to European travels - then there are still some fabulous places to visit in the UK!

So folks - don't be put off by the price increases and just make the most of your motorhome and carry on enjoying your travels and freedom I say!

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Sue x


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## ramos

Sonesta said:


> Having just returned from Portugal we found eating out and supermarket prices were very high compared to the UK and of course fuel prices have shot through the roof too - but despite the price increases we still enjoyed a wonderful trip and we made the most of every moment.
> 
> What price do you put on enjoyment and fulfillment though and can you really put a price on happiness? Personally I think not and I believe if you feel you can stretch your finances just that little bit further, than I would strongly encourage anyone to not let the price increases put them off travelling to Europe too much! I personally would suggest they just throw caution to the wind and simply tighten their belts a notch or two! LOL!
> 
> To my way of thinking the beauty and freedom of motorhoming means holidays can be as expensive or as cheap as you want them to be! If you like to wildcamp or stay on aires, then you can reduce your campsite fees quite dramatically and of course with having cooking facilities onboard you can make some delicious meals, using local produced products. We found that a trip to a local fish, meat or fruit & vegetable market is generally a lot cheaper than you will ever find in any of the supermarkets and the quality of the produce, with it being all fresh from the sea, fields and farms means it is first class, quality food too!
> 
> So, my advice to anyone who wants to travel to Europe - is to do exactly that; as life is too short to put off doing what you want to do isn't it? And if your budget really cannot stretch to European travels - then there are still some fabulous places to visit in the UK!
> 
> So folks - don't be put off by the price increases and just make the most of your motorhome and carry on enjoying your travels and freedom I say!
> 
> HAPPY NEW YEAR
> 
> Sue x


You have said it so well well done!! :lol: 
Enjoy yourself.
The rest of Europe has always been dearer ie:- Switzerland Germany Italy and people have never let that stop them from going there.
So the days of cheap wine and food has gone from Spain and Portugal just pull in your belt and enjoy the warmth and the wonderful views and worry about the bill when you get back.
As has been said before (you cant take it with you)


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## 38Rover

Don't let stories of high prices in Spain put you off,it may not be the cheap holiday it once was but it's no more expensive than the UK some things more many less.
Diesel ,83 litre,a coffee 1 to 1.25,beer1.5,whisky 3 ( but very large)sirloin steak 12.45 a kilo,baguette.8,litre bottle whisky 10,decent bottle wine 4 to 5,Menu del dia good 3 course lunch 7to10,Al a carte 3 course 20/25 with wine
Prices paid in the last week :lol:


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## peedee

Well we are down to £1=1 euro now so think in terms of euros for everything you buy in the UK, its a bit of a shock!!!!! Its also easy to compare with continental cost too.

peedee


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## RainDancer

I will be going just booked the ferry this morning. Roll on April :lol: .


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## Mike48

I think Devon (where I live) will be very very overcrowded this summer. The roads are always very busy in summer and the holiday brochures fail to mention that holidaymakers will spend a considerable portion of their time in traffic jams.

So my advice is go abroad. That's what I shall be doing.


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## Gonewiththewind

For me, its the Sun and the warmth. I don't think Spain has been cheap for a couple of years as the cost has been creeping up year on year. So unless we get a super hot year(  ) then I will be heading over the Channel. With a winter like this, I need the warmth of the mediteranian Sun.


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## mickyc

Absolutely no chance of us staying in this country

2 weeks skiing in Feb

3 Weeks on the French Med in July/Aug

1 week in Normandy in Oct

We could of course swap these holidays for 6 weeks lined up by theodolite on a CC site, parking charges everywhere, height barriers in every town, traffic jams, and crap weather. But I doubt we will :wink:


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## bognormike

We are keeping our options open - may do Northern Spain in June, but quite fancy doing a Scottish trip (haven't been north of the border for 5 years), both are a long drive from Bognor (!)- first one through France - easyish without using tolls, may take a day or so more than with tolls, or going across crowded England with no Aires to stop off? 

I suppose if we do go over the water we'll use our Camping Cheques (bought 2 years ago on their gold card - we've got 12 left), and maybe have fewer meals out. 
Whichever direction, the Dutch will be around in their caravans 8)


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## bevjohn

*europe next year*

We going to Germany in March for 3 weeks,Have 3 return tunnel crossings in credit with Tesco,so no cost there.Would still go in any case,just remember A SHROUD HAS NO POCKETS. Happy New Year.


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## Telbell

Already paid for most of our site fees (Camping Cheques :lol: ) then there's a few Aires, plus a few France Passion- that's the cheap accommodation sorted. Fuel should be as cheap as UK-at least. That just leaves food which we'd have to have over here anyway.

"No Brainer" :lol: :lol:


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## Tim3

*We're off too....*

For us mid march can't come soon enough...

We're waiting for my wife to finish working out her notice then that's it for the UK for a while, we're going to Europe for a minimum of 6 months... significantly longer if we can make the money stretch!!

We're planning on splitting our time between WWOOFing as it allows for free living for a while and touring using a mixture of aires and campsites.

If anyone has any bright ideas how to either get food & free parking spot in exchange for casual work or just earn a few Euros here and there please let us know.


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## Grizzly

*Re: We're off too....*



Tim3 said:


> If anyone has any bright ideas how to either get food & free parking spot in exchange for casual work or just earn a few Euros here and there please let us know.


Have you thought of this ?:

http://www.housesitworld.com/europe/

I imagine you can live in the van while you do it.

G


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## Telbell

> If anyone has any bright ideas how to either get food & free parking spot in exchange for casual work or just earn a few Euros here and there please let us know.


....or you could contact the campsites in the areas you're planning to visit and offer your services?


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## thieawin

Just back from a fornight in Spain and France

My predictions on page one of this topic were correct

Fuel was OK, in fact cheaper in real terms in Spain than during the hieight of prices last year, France if you shop around it was OK as well

It was shopping in the supermarkets which was the eye opener

I am going to go for a Scottish Ring around the Western Isles, once part of the kingdom of Mann and the Isles, another visit or two to Spain via france and as we have a new boat (tyat is we as in the IOM Steam Packet) which wil carry my motorhome to Dublin, a fortnight around Ireland, maybe en route to France

Our farm house in Catalunya has parking and hook up facility. and we would welcome any one who wanted to stay there in their van (for free) and to share facilities such as pool, barbie and jacuzi when we are in residence, just PM me. The handyman has retired from full time work and is now working the allotment I buy seeds/plants, he plants/grows and we share the organic produce. I am thinking about trout for the 16 foot diameter cisterna

We are about 70 miles from barcelona and 50 from taragonna and here about 8 weks per year. We let out the rest.


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