# Drunk in a motorhome.



## 114236 (Jul 9, 2008)

First of all Happy New Year.
I dare say that this has been discussed before, so I do apologise for bringing this topic up again.
Where do we as motorhome owners stand with regards to having the ignition keys whilst over the drink drive limit?
1. Wild camping
2.Camp site.
I would just add that I have NOT been done for Drink Driving, but was asked by a friend and I didn't know the answer.
Many thanks for you help.
Richard.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

As long as your keys are not in the ignition you are Ok.
If in a camp site you are very safe to drink but if Wild Camping as long as you are not in the cab area and all the signs are that you are staying over night and the keys are not in the ignition then you are ok.
So put your jim jams on :lol: 
Mavis


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

Have a look at http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-46938-drunk.html+motorhome It's all been discussed before at great length.

The salient information is contained in the above thread, although having just glanced through it again, I was reminded of how it was steered off-topic onto something more vitriolic by someone less interested in discussing the topic, and more in interested in promoting their own views on something else. It still contains the answers you want.

Mavis, re. your post, you might want to read it through as well. 

Dougie.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Richard

Welcome to the club.

It has indeed been done before, but if you cough up your tenner to register :lol: you will have access to the "search" facility (among other goodies such as discounts!!) and will be able tp peruse the several extensive threads at leisure.

Happy New Year to you too!  

Dave


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

asprn said:


> Have a look at http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-46938-drunk.html+motorhome It's all been discussed before at great length.
> 
> The salient information is contained in the above thread, although having just glanced through it again, I was reminded of how it was steered off-topic onto something more vitriolic by someone less interested in discussing the topic, and more in interested in promoting their own views on something else. It still contains the answers you want.
> 
> ...


Yes I have read through
Qoute
Whoever both of you decide is, in answer to being asked at the time. If you both say the other person is, Id breath-test both of you (or arrest both of you without one if you were both clearly unfit to drive). If either failed, they'd get arrested. If the other one then said, "Actually, I'm in charge", I'd give you an £80 Fixed Penalty Notice for obstructing me.

That amazes me
Funny enough this subject came up at our Rally.

My friends had all seen the New Year in and then News Year day we had Port and Stilton and more drinks that night (lucky Ray doesn't drink that much) but i said what time will you all be going home tomorrow.
Oh about 1pm then 12 hours will have passed and we will all be OK.
Well what happened they all got up early and from 9am were setting off for home with a 120 mile journey in front of them.
That is the risk they take Ok to drink when static but its when they drive off the real risk is taken.


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

locovan said:


> That is the risk they take Ok to drink when static but its when they drive off the real risk is taken.


Debatable.

I take it you have tried falling head first off the Luton onto the floor before you wrote that sentence.

If wonder if anyone has the stats for injury inside a MH due to excess alcohol ?


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

hilldweller said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > That is the risk they take Ok to drink when static but its when they drive off the real risk is taken.
> ...


Oh dear I see how that sounded sorry.
Right I will try again  
The friendly argument was how long does it take for drink to go through the system before you are safe to drive off the next morning?
Mavis


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

locovan said:


> hilldweller said:
> 
> 
> > locovan said:
> ...


Mavis

The best way is that which aircrew (particularly airline pilots) practise - 24 hours bottle to throttle - but a lot depends on your metabolism :roll: or don't drink at all if there's the slightest chance you'll be driving. 

Only my opinion, I'm not qualified to give a definitive answer.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

What would happen if you where Wild Camping (which i don't do) and the local police came along and insisted you move
Has this happened to anyone
Alan H


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

All of these points have been covered in detail before. Do we have to cover them again!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

sprokit said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> > hilldweller said:
> ...


But at all the rallies people drink Saturday night then travel home Sunday 
they drink more because its their own bottles and cheaper than the pub.
How long should they leave it before they can be sure they are back to normal to drive.
My lot were all saying 12 hrs and then they are Ok
But its not only Motorhomers its all people that drink before they drive the next day and I just wondered what the rules are.
It was just a discusion where we just didnt know the answer. :roll:

Alan you ask *What would happen if you where Wild Camping (which i don't do) and the local police came along and insisted you move *

The answer must be if you have been drinking you would have to refuse to move  We need an expert to answer this one  
I think the answer is it would mean you wasnt parked legal so you would be arrested for drinking in charge of a vehicle. :roll: help!!!!


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## Briarose (Oct 9, 2007)

locovan said:


> sprokit said:
> 
> 
> > locovan said:
> ...


 My friend once rang the police to ask this question..........ie what would you do if you had just cooked a steak etc and opened a bottle of red wine between you.................hopefully Sonesta will come along and tell you what the police said,


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

Briarose said:


> My friend once rang the police to ask this question..........ie what would you do if you had just cooked a steak etc and opened a bottle of red wine between you.................hopefully Sonesta will come along and tell you what the police said,


From what I can recall, the police officer who I spoke to when I rang to ask this question explained that it was down to the police officer's discression. I think basically, if it looked like we were obviously settled in for the night and not likely to be driving the vehicle until the next day then we would probably be ok.

I had wanted to know the answer to this primarily because we like to wildcamp and wasnt sure of the legal implications relating to alchohol consumption?

Sue


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## Fatalhud (Mar 3, 2006)

Andysam said:


> All of these points have been covered in detail before. Do we have to cover them again!


I think you will find that a good 90% of topics have been covered before and if we never ever covered them again it would be very quiet on MHF

plus sometimes new members may wish to add their opinions

After all where would we be if we couldn't discuss A frames and Gassing every other day :wink: :wink:


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

sprokit said:


> The best way is that which aircrew (particularly airline pilots) practise - 24 hours bottle to throttle


Not always 

The Red Arrows manager once came and gave us a lecture. One bit I recall "One of the hardest parts of the job was hiding the wine bill in the accounts".


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## hilldweller (Mar 8, 2008)

locovan said:


> Oh dear I see how that sounded sorry.The friendly argument was how long does it take for drink to go through the system before you are safe to drive off the next morning?
> Mavis


Nothing to be sorry about. I just thought I'd make the point that alcohol is not only about driving.

Our Luton is right above the stair well, I've this horrible mental picture of me, head down the stair well, feet in the air. It reduces my drinking, a bit.

I've no idea how long it takes to clear your system, very variable and too long is probably the answer.

I think a lot of us need to occasionally ask ourselves "are we drinking too much ?". It's a terrible temptation in a MH with not a lot else to do some evenings.


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

There are several sites like THIS ONE http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp where you can calculate your estimated BAC.

I know in the US if you are drunk and decide to sleep it off in your car you can still get arrested. I suppose an unfriendly cop might do the same if someone was in a motor home. Don't know about Europe, I'm guessing they would be more liberal about someone obviously parked for the night.


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

No offence to the plods amongst us (i'm an ex bobby myself) but, if you want legal advice, don't ask just any policeman. Many are FAR from being experts on the law. Ask a sergeant or Inspector, preferably in traffic division. That way you'll probably get a realistic interpretation of the law. Senior officers are managers and often have little to do with the law.

At the end of the day, drunk driving is an absolute offence.
Its a car, its a road, you were driving, you were over the limit.
No arguement.

Drunk in charge has an element of intent. Therefore it would be down to convincing the magistrate whether there was likelihood of driving while still over the limit.

Don't forget it's not the police that decide guilt.
They report the facts (as they see them) and the CPS / Proc Fiscal decides if the case goes ahead, and then the court decides if you are guilty. Even then there is the right of appeal.


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## chalky9 (Oct 27, 2006)

sprokit said:



> The best way is that which aircrew (particularly airline pilots) practise - 24 hours bottle to throttle


Sorry, that's incorrect. The CAA rules are specific about the permitted level of alcohol in the blood, but the general "rule of thumb" is no alcohol in the EIGHT hours before coming on duty.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Interpretation of the law as was conveyed to me by the Crown Prosecution Service a few years ago.

If you are *not driving or attempting to drive *then the only offence you might be committing is that of being "drunk in charge"

There is a statutory defence to that charge. If you could show "there was *no likelihood *of you driving until your blood alcohol level was below the limit" then you could not be convicted of the offence If you are tucked up in your bed then that would be more than sufficient. (The important bit is the "no likelihood", that is something that YOU would have to show) The CPS are (were) VERY nervous about prosecuting "drunk in charge" as there are so many "get outs"

The other point about "what if you are wild camping" If a police officer asked (told) you to move your vehicle and you told him that you had been drinking and you felt you might be over the drink drive limit and he (she) then insisted that you move the vehicle they would also commit the offence of "causing" you to drive whilst under the 'fluence !!

Its all down to common sense really. Best bet is to leave the keys out of the ignition and tucked away somewhere out of sight, that should be more than enough to show you had no intention of driving.

As far as the next morning after a skinfull is concerned, If in doubt DONT !! 

Over the years I dealt with more than the odd driver (sunday mornings were the most common) who were driving after a "session" the night before and were still over the limit. I expect Dougie will back me up on that one. If you use your common sense there should not be a problem, the more you drink the longer you should leave it before driving.


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## AberdeenAngus (Jul 26, 2008)

Only ever had one Drunk in Charge. Found a guy slumped over in his car pi**ed as a fart. Keys in the ignition and a takeaway for 4 people on the passenger seat. CPS still dropped it. 

DD was an excellant offence for a young bobby. It's a worthwhile prosecution. Gets a good tick in your workbook for an arrestable offence. But best of all, there's hardly any paperwork as the Custody sergeant does it all


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## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I have been discussing this with a German motorhoming friend since reading what was said here yesterday so I can give some european perspective. My friend could not believe that we in the UK have the offence of being drunk in charge. He has toured widely in europe over many years and says that drunk driving is the only offence in other european countries. A typical example of UK over regulation in my opinion. I would not like to be in the position of having to try to defend myself in a UK magistrates court if charged with being drunk in charge while 'parked up' for the night. 

I also feel that asking for clarification may attract attention and serve as a pointer for any over enthusiastic police looking for easy convictions. I do feel that many of our police like an easy target. I do not want to offend any reasonable police officer reading this post, they, I would hope, are the sort who would look at the circumstances and conclude that the van was parked for the night and not even approach the occupants. 

I want to state clearly that I do not drink and drive. I do stay in pub car parks from time to time and frequently wild camp and have a few beers. Regards, Alan.


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## Sonesta (May 10, 2005)

I think next time me and hubby are wildcamping it might be best to enjoy our steak and bottle of wine in our bedtime attire. Can you imagine the officers face if we were to answer the door with me in my negglyleggy, hairnet & curlers and hubby in his nightshirt and nightcap carrying 2 sets of dentures in a glass of steridant ha ha ha?  Not a pretty sight by any stretch of the imagination. 8O Do you think he would believe we had no intention of driving anywhere?

Sue


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Sonesta said:


> I think next time me and hubby are wildcamping it might be best to enjoy our steak and bottle of wine in our bedtime attire. Can you imagine the officers face if we were to answer the door with me in my negglyleggy, hairnet & curlers and hubby in his nightshirt and nightcap carrying 2 sets of dentures in a glass of steridant ha ha ha?  Not a pretty sight by any stretch of the imagination. 8O Do you think he would believe we had no intention of driving anywhere?
> 
> Sue


That has to be the answer though I hope a Newsman is there I would love to see the photo of you in the paper
Sue :lol:


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi all,

In my early days in the RAF, especially in Cyprus where alcohol was cheaper to service personnel on the bases, I was taught that the average human body takes approximately 1 hour to process (for want of a better term), 1 unit of alcohol, depending on varying factors. So, at 23.00hrs, having downed six pints, none of us were fit to go on duty at 06.00.............but we all did. Doesn't make it right though. Apparently, traces of alcohol can still be found in the body, for up to 24 hours after the last consumption.

A pint of beer = 2 units based on an ABV of 3.5% (Wetherspoons 99p pint :lol: ).
A glass of wine = 1unit, based on a 125ml measure. (hard to find in most pubs these days).
A single spirit = 1 unit, based on a 25ml measure.

Most session ales in pubs these days are around the 4.2 - 4.5% ABV, with some lagers like Stella and Kronenbourg at around the 5.2 - 5.5% ABV. So we are now looking at 3 - 3.5 units per pint.

When on the Aires, I am very conscientious about what and how much I will consume, and invariably, it is much less than I might consume, whilst on a campsite, even if not moving on the next day. (I hope that I am not giving the impression that I am a right P### Artist. :lol

>>This might help to make a decision<<

Jock.

BTW, I favour Wetherspoons decision to sell Greene King's IPA at 99p per pint. The louts and winos won't want to drink it at only 3.5% ABV, but many of us that enjoy a pint and a meal whilst in town, will want to. :wink:


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## jhelm (Feb 9, 2008)

Try the web site I posted. Might put your minds at rest. For example, say you weigh 180 pounds and drink 3 glasses of wine over a 3 hour leisurely dinner. You are below the limit. Or you weigh 150 drink 5 beers and next day 12 hours later you are at zero.


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## tviall (May 1, 2005)

I heard an interesting story about the CC site at York, I think it was, where the river burst its banks and was threatening to flood the site. The wardens woke everyone up and suggested that they move their vans or risk the flood. Most people obliged but one guy refused saying that he couldn't leave the site because he had been drinking.

There's a delema. Risk getting caught for D&D or flood your van.

I know what I would do.................avoid that camp site!!!


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

tviall said:


> I heard an interesting story about the CC site at York, I think it was, where the river burst its banks and was threatening to flood the site. The wardens woke everyone up and suggested that they move their vans or risk the flood. Most people obliged but one guy refused saying that he couldn't leave the site because he had been drinking.
> 
> There's a delema. Risk getting caught for D&D or flood your van.
> 
> I know what I would do.................avoid that camp site!!!


Can you be charged for Drunk in charge of a floating vehicle  
Mavis


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## kaybee327 (Dec 22, 2006)

Suppose it depends on whether or not you have yachtsman certificate or similar

Keith


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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

kaybee327 said:


> Suppose it depends on whether or not you have yachtsman certificate or similar
> 
> Keith


Yep, got one of them, but wouldn't be hanging around to find out whether Jock & Rita's German built "Ark" would float or not. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jock.


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## Andysam (May 10, 2005)

I wasn't going to post but I can't help myself 8) 

There is quite a bit of rubbish here stating you can drink so and so over so many hours and still be fit to drive. Really? No is the answer. Do you really need to take something (anything) to the edge to discover what you or it (a car/motorhome maybe) are capable of? No you don't- and why...because it's stupid.

With regard to being prosecuted for being drunk in charge the Crown (CPS) have to prove (on the balance of probabilites) that there was an intention to drive. Without an intention to drive there is no drunk in charge. Keys in the ignition or not, it doesn't matter. Obviously showing that you don't intend to drive is a good pro active stance, but the onus is on the police not you.

If you've had too much to drink and the police want the vehicle moved for some reason, they will not direct you to move it whilst unfit- they will simply have the vehicle removed by a recovery firm- at your cost.

Common sense applied liberally will do just fine. Good luck.


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

Andysam said:


> I wasn't going to post but I can't help myself 8)
> 
> There is quite a bit of rubbish here stating you can drink so and so over so many hours and still be fit to drive. Really? No is the answer. Do you really need to take something (anything) to the edge to discover what you or it (a car/motorhome maybe) are capable of? No you don't- and why...because it's stupid.
> 
> ...


So the true answer is if you wild camp NO DRINKING!!!!!! no if's no but's
8) 8)


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-549589.html#549589


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## locovan (Oct 17, 2007)

asprn said:


> http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-549589.html#549589


Whoops here is the policeman  
You make me laugh :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I know what your telling me that Im going round in circles but I have stopped honest :roll: 
I did read that god you make me feel like a 4 year old :lol: caught with my fingers in the jam


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)




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## JockandRita (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi all,

It is being discussed on Jeremy Vine's BBC Radio 2 programme, which you can access later >>Here<<  after the programme finishes at 14.00 today.

So far it has confirmed what I was taught.

Jock.


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