# B584 - lack of traction on snow/ice



## TeamHymer (Mar 28, 2008)

Spent last weekend at the C&CC site at Windermere. The site was still snowed/iced up on the roadways and pitches. I barely got onto the site before I lost forward traction on the ice covered roadway. Fortunately I had some snow chains which I put on and these allowed me to get to my pitch, and off the site at the end of our stay. Is this a common problem with the front wheel drive Fiat Ducato, due to most of the weight being over the rear axle? Some of the other M/H seemed to be coping okay in the conditions. (I got stuck earlier this year on a muddy/grassy CL during our glorious summer!) I don't think my driving style was wrong - low revs and a higher gear than normal. My tyres are relatively new Conti Vancos. Anyone experienced the same problems? Any thoughts about alternative action to take?
Cheers
Peter


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

No personal experience of driving the Ducato, but in Sept we sat watching someone trying to manoeuvre a new Ducato on FLAT wet grass and he got it stuck. Didn't appear to be poor technique, just no grip. Twenty mins later he was on the only bit of tarmac on the site, while everyone else was on the grass; it seemed there was no traction to speak of. Don't know how loaded the van was. There are times when I'm glad we've got a twin wheel Transit..............


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## JacSprat (May 26, 2006)

Certainly don't have any driving tips, but I found an interesting new product for traction on snow and ice. Check this out:
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/autosock/


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## vicdicdoc (May 14, 2005)

I'm sorry to say that our [Fiat Ducato based] motorhome also suffers loss of traction on wet or muddy ground . . roll on summer!


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Yes it's a problem with all front wheel drive. however unlike rear wheel drive if you have a slide then accelerating can pill you out of trouble so there is for and against. 

Wobby.


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## Gonewiththewind (Nov 17, 2007)

wobby said:


> Yes it's a problem with all front wheel drive. however unlike rear wheel drive if you have a slide then accelerating can pill you out of trouble so there is for and against.
> 
> Wobby.


Watched a program the other week that totally disproved that theory.
Mine is a Boxer with the same problem.


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## JeanLuc (Jan 13, 2007)

Rear wheel drive vans tend to have more traction in poor conditions - but they still get stuck sometimes - I did at Carsington in October, but not as badly as some FWD Ducatos.
Last year I watched a guy in a Ducato-based C-class slither around for ages on a wet grassy incline - a very slight incline mind you. Then he realised the best option was to turn around and reverse up it.


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## wobby (May 1, 2005)

Gonewiththewind said:


> wobby said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it's a problem with all front wheel drive. however unlike rear wheel drive if you have a slide then accelerating can pill you out of trouble so there is for and against.
> ...


That's a shame, yet another thing for our poor old Fiats to be rubbished for by ????


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Get yourselves some plastic tracks, the sort that are sold in garden centres as instant temporary paths.

You put them down as you go on to a pitch and leave the driven wheels on them during your stay.

When you leave you have your own 'caterpillar' tracks!


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## trek (May 1, 2005)

I've owned two Fiat coachbuilts and they were great as a camper chassis - apart from the getting stuck bit

It always seemed to start with the passenger front wheel slipping then digging a hole for itself

Thats why I changed to a rear wheel drive Iveco - so much better. We still had the odd sticky moment but I could always get out with a few bits of wood or those yellow grip mats except for one moment when all the wheels sank in a very boggy field resulting in a tractor tow out (my friends all helped by getting their cameras out) 

one little tip I would add is if there is some loose gravel around (from a road, path or driveway) when your wheel is bogged down try throwing some around the wheel it has worked for me a couple of times - 

Now I have changed to a Sprinter - some how I just cant see myself going back to a front wheel drive camper again ( my car is front wheel drive but I dont take that onto grass )


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

*traction*

Hi dont laugh but we got stuck in a flat gravel lay-by in Scotland this year in our Ducato based Rapido 8O, I dont know if the chassis is too stiff or what but I expect it wont be the last time! rear wheel drive is much better for traction but the axle and transmission bulk is not ideal for m/h manufacture/layout.


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## time-traveller (Apr 23, 2007)

EVERYONE else?

Must mean that no one there had a Ducato, then? :lol:



Valian said:


> No personal experience of driving the Ducato, but in Sept we sat watching someone trying to manoeuvre a new Ducato on FLAT wet grass and he got it stuck. Didn't appear to be poor technique, just no grip. Twenty mins later he was on the only bit of tarmac on the site, while everyone else was on the grass; it seemed there was no traction to speak of. Don't know how loaded the van was. There are times when I'm glad we've got a twin wheel Transit..............


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## Valian (Sep 25, 2008)

Well yes. By everyone I mean our transit and the guy in the VW. It wasn't very busy..............nice and peaceful though!!


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## gerardjanice (May 1, 2005)

I have a selfbuild rear wheel drive Transit and the only place I have been stuck is when I did a three point turn on my drive in winter. Two front wheels and one rear on the grass; sank down 8 inches straight away! Digging and boarding didn't work, humiliating to get a tractor to tow you off your own drive. I am now the proud possesor of snow chains.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

I seem to remember reading that Continental Vanco tyres get a low rating on snow or ice, excellent in other areas though. We had a set on our last van and I was never impressed with their performance on bad ground although they were excellent on tarmac (which is what they're made for after all).
Weight distribution characteristics will always mean that FWD M/Hs perform badly on slippery surfaces.


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## LittleGreyCat (Jun 22, 2008)

Front wheel drive itself is not the problem - it is the weight distribution.

I still remember when the rally Minis wiped the floor with all the rear wheel drive cars because of their superb grip.

In your average car the engine over the front wheels places most of the weight over the driving wheels. 
Same goes for VWs with the engine over the rear wheels.
[And my old VW camper was very good on snow/ice/mud etc.]

The problem with the Motor Homes is that nearly all the weight is behind the front wheels.

The rear axle is (I guess) about 2/3 the way down the body of yer average camper so a rear wheel drive has most of the weight over the rear wheels. This gives a lot better traction.

Oh, and with front wheel drive if you get into trouble you just lift off everything - throttle, brake, steering wheel - and allegedly it sorts itself out.

Rear wheel drive if you start to slide you boot it hard, get the rear to break away, then steer into the skid (or ditch or both).

Again, this applies to cars not hulking great pantechnicons with all mod cons 

Cheers

LGC

P.S. those snow boot things look to be no good for wet grass, whereas snow chains should still help although they would shred the field.


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## 101825 (Nov 18, 2006)

When we changed from summer to winter tyres we noticed a significant increase in grip on slippery surfaces. We've decided to stick with winter tyres, especially on the front. Although not as good as rear wheel drive, it does help somewhat.


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## SteveandSue (Aug 25, 2008)

Thought it best to put the record straight with Fiats - we have front wheel drive fiat.
We have just been to French Alps and whilst on one camp site we had fresh snow on top of ice. A rear wheel drive camper from Netherlands needed chains to get onto the site and back into their space- We drove off the site which included an uphill section on a bend - no problems whatsoever - we have new Verdestein winter tyres just fitted and my experience is that the tryes and driving style are far more important than front/rear wheel drive.
Last lot of snow up in Yorkshire we had 4 wheel drive vehicles stuck - whilst our works peugot van - front wheel drive again but with new snow tyres - straight past them -no problems - though a few looked a bit annoyed that we had pulled out and past them.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

Being an ex off road person and still the owner of 2 4x4s, it is a lot to do with driving technique and weight distribution and tyres. My merc base was o/k in the 
mud, not brilliant,my bessy on fiat was useless, my present small burstner a class on new 3 litre is quite good, not been stuck yet, there is only a small rear overhang, plus large tyres. went to fairford air show last year
and managed to drive of through horrendous mud.


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## TeamHymer (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the input regarding the lack of traction for FWD Fiat Ducato. I think I will follow the advice given above and buy a pair of mud/snow winter tyres to replace the front Conti Vancos for the rest of the grotty weather period - they may stay on all year! Has anyone found a make/model of tyre that has performed well for them in the wet and snow? I have 215/70R/15C tyres on my Hymer B584.
Cheers
Peter


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## ozwhit (Feb 29, 2008)

We drove off the site which included an uphill section on a bend - no problems whatsoever - we have new Verdestein winter tyres just fitted and my experience is that the tryes and driving style are far more important than front/rear wheel drive(edit from barney2s post )
hi team hymer i also have the same tyres as barney ,and cannot fault them on snow and ice ,from camskill tyres .bout £3oo for a set of four , regards gary


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