# Floe drain down kits - worthwhile investment or not??



## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

Having had to visit a local dealer this morning to get some recall work done on my motorhome, I was perusing their parts area and saw the Floe system for sale. I'd previously seen their website in summer but then promptly forgot about, but with winter approaching had another rethink. Then I got chatting to another m/h owner who has had it fitted but as it's their 1st m/h (of 3 months) it made me think - are people fitting these things unnecessarliy??? So I though I'd seek views on here.

I've suffered in the past from not draining down and the subsequent split pipes (2x as it happens - you'd have thought I'd learn after the 1st episode.... ).

But having drained down in the old fashion way (open cocks and taps) and been through severe cold weather - last winter especially - and not had any issues, I wonder why go to the extreme of getting rid of all water by blowing it out. Gravity will get rid of most water from sensitive areas like tap and heater pipes, and any small quantity left lying in tanks won't cause issues as far as I can see.

So - yes to Floe or no to Floe (or other alternatives)?? I need to be sold on this one!! At the moment, I'm in the no camp spending the money on beer instead....


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## alshymer (Nov 4, 2007)

*Floe*

I have had a Floe for three years now and whist £50 seems a lot, the system certainly does what it says on the tin!
In about 10 mins I can get every drop of water out of my system and I feel safer knowing that hopefully, no bacteria are multiplying in the pipes.
Obviously, one only uses the system maybe once or twice a year, but to my mind the Floe is worth having. (If you can forsake 12 pints of beer for a couple of days!!)
Regards
Alshymer


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

I've never worried about bacteria in the pipes as theoretically - and over winter - it should not be a problem if you drain down. The water left behind is minimal for growth and with the absence of light and with cold temps, then it should not be an issue - and provided you give it a good flush through and clean come refilling, then it's no deal.

Let's put it this way - I've not had any bacterial problems so far. I'm more worried about split pipes than bugs frankly.


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

Given that you normally only need to use this system once a year, why not pass it around and share with other members? Or is it fixed into the water system. I attach my euphonium mouthpiece to the shower pipe and blow, seems to work over the last few winters.

Dave


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

dovtrams said:


> Given that you normally only need to use this system once a year, why not pass it around and share with other members? Or is it fixed into the water system. I attach my euphonium mouthpiece to the shower pipe and blow, seems to work over the last few winters.
> 
> Dave


the m/h ones are fixed into the water system - caravan ones seem to be movable.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

I made and fitted my own system from parts obtained from work but now I have it its left in place and as the other OP says 10 mins and you are done.

If you worry about water freezing and causing damage then its a no brainer as at least you will know your totally free of water.

The time you will most need the system to work may be filling up before going away which is when you dont want problems.

Phill


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## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have never seen or heard about these things - but have just watched the video which is very clear IMO.

http://www.keepfloeing.com/products-motorhome.html

I normally open everything in sight, let it all drain down - I have never tried running the pump afterwards to ensure it is drained too, so there are some good points in there.

I am not sure how it would work with a NaturePure filter fitted since it cannot blow air through the cartridge and the cartridge has to come out for winterisation, but you couldn't take it out first unless you reassemble it without the cartridge - which seems like twice as much work.... Anyone got any ideas?

£47.99 for the UK MH Kit - more for the continental, ODB does not list it, neither do they list ODB......

Dave


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## Brian-the-Snail (Dec 1, 2011)

I am on my 3rd winter and 2nd van with my Floe kit. Having drained the system as normal I was tempted to not fit the Floe however I changed my mind put in the system, which included having to drill a 38mm hole in the locker front for the adaptor to fit, I spent my 10 mins draining off using the Floe, around 750 mls of water came out. 
Doesn't seem a lot but in the right place could easily cause a split or.
I think it is expensive for a bike pump adaptor and the instructions are not very good for Motorhome use particularly if you have a pressurised system but I would rather have it than not.
I also use it all year if not using the van to stop bacteria growth.

Clive


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## Ozzyjohn (Sep 3, 2007)

To each his own, I suppose.

For me, it seems to be a cure for a problem that I don't have. In 18+ years of caravan/motorhome ownership (all with on-board water tanks) I've not had noticeable bacteria growth (we've always consumed the on-board water from the taps), nor have we had any freezing problems (drain down using gravity - always leave taps in "open" positions).

Use the motorhome most months of the year - so drain down is something I do several times each winter, and it takes moments once the main bulk of water is drained from the tank.

I'm out - as the Dragon's would say 


Regards,
John


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## listerdiesel (Aug 3, 2012)

We drain down when leaving the site, we don't travel with water in the system, and finally open everything up when we know we were at home for the winter.

We flush rgough in the spring a couple times, then we fit a new Crystal Filter and that's about it.

I guess if you have worries about bugs etc it might give some comfort, but most people seem to be pretty happy without it, so a 'Nice To Have' gadget rather than a 'Must Have' for me.

Peter


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## talogon (Aug 12, 2009)

I agree with listerdiesel, a nice to have gadget not a must have. I have fitted one and it seems to work well, but I do like a gadget


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## uncleswede (Apr 16, 2010)

dovtrams said:


> I attach my euphonium mouthpiece to the shower pipe and blow...


Is yours a Bb or Eb motorhome? ;-)


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## dovtrams (Aug 18, 2009)

uncleswede said:


> dovtrams said:
> 
> 
> > I attach my euphonium mouthpiece to the shower pipe and blow...
> ...


Definitely Bb!! I play La Belle American down the tube and that gets rid of all of the water. The bite of the humble flee is too short a piece to do the job properly.

Dave


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

so - as expected - there seems to be 2 camps here

those that are for the Floe system and those that think it's a waste of time

decision made - more beer it is..... :wink:


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## zappy61 (May 1, 2005)

*cleaning water pipes*

Mines all drained down now, I open all outlets and leave them open if the expansion of ice can be accomodated then there should not be a problem. I do leave an oiled filled radiator in on the lowest setting and all lockers open especially where the pump is because that is usually where the water will be in the glass filter housing. I think the device is good but a tad expensive for a stopvalve and a schrader valve. As for the microbiological or organic growth in the pipes this is always a possibility when water is exposed to the atmosphere for extended periods cleaning at the start of the season is a must for me. See my article here
Regards
Graham


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## Annsman (Nov 8, 2007)

I open the cold and hot water drain valves, remove the Naturepure filter from the casing. Unfasten the pipes to and from the filter, open all the taps and let gravity do it's work. 

I go back to the van later and blow hard down the cold water pipe that goes from the tank to the filter. I leave all the taps open and the drain valves. When we need the van again I close the valves, put the filter in, fasten the pipes and fill the tank. One a year I wash out the water tank, after removing the filter, with a cleaning solution. I've done this for five years and never had a problem.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Opening the taps and all that..how does that empty the pump.

The pump will have a non return to keep it primed and so will remain full of water.

A few winters ago when we had a minus 15 i went into the van the next day and the pump was froze solid. 30mins of a hairdrier and the heating turned on thawed everying out and i was up and running again but it could have been nasty.

Also if you van is parked on a slope not all the water may drain out of the pipes.

so makes your coice but consider carefully

ps my van is full of unecessary gadjets, sat navs, reversing cameras video cameras its what blokes do


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## fatbuddha (Aug 7, 2006)

> A few winters ago when we had a minus 15 i went into the van the next day and the pump was froze solid.


I guess you could always wrap some insulation around the pump to prevent any residual water freezing but at -15C anything will struggle without external heat. we rarely see temps below -5C where we are on the coast so it's unlikley to happen


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## Gary1944 (Feb 21, 2009)

As we have the van outside the house and hooked up to electrics a drain down and taps left open has always sufficed. But I remember from a trip to Canada (where they have REAL winters) we visited a RV sales place and while looking round the vehicles did the usual thing and fiddled with all the controls and this coloured liquid came out of the water tap. I apologised to the salesman and he thought it was quite comical and explained that after draining down the water they pump through a potable anti-freeze which expunges all water and I guess would stop any growth of bacteria. I thought it was a great idea, and if the winters carry on getting colder might be something that could be offered here.

Gary.


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Potable anti freeze


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## teensvan (May 9, 2005)

Hi.

Watched the dvd about this system and had a look at our pipework fitted in our van. The truma push together pipework is very simple. I pulled it apart just before the non return valve and just had to blow down the hot and then cold pipes with the taps open and out came all the water from the pipes. Cost £0.

Very good system.

steve & ann. ------------- teensvan


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## HarryTheHymer (May 1, 2005)

I've just purchased floe and was quite amazed at the amount of water that was expelled despite having drained down as normal before trying the floe device. 

However, one thing that nobody has mentioned so far is that it gives you the opportunity of pressure testing the plumbing system. I found a leak at the screw-on strainer bowl next to the Shurflo pump (defective o-ring seal). Could have been the reason why the pump was not pumping a constant flow of water during out last trip.

A leaking plumbing system could have serious consequences if left unnoticed for a long period of time, like rotting/delaminated floorboards etc.

We all (hopefully) pressure test our gas system for leaks so why not the plumbing system. Makes sense to me!


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

drcotts said:


> I made and fitted my own system from parts obtained from work but now I have it its left in place and as the other OP says 10 mins and you are done.
> 
> If you worry about water freezing and causing damage then its a no brainer as at least you will know your totally free of water.
> 
> ...


I was pondering this myself today Phil.
What parts did you use? I have found 12mm barbed isolation valves no problem but what did you do for the tyre valve?


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## davidjlambert (Sep 25, 2012)

Andy

This link may be useful for the compressor connector.

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acatalog/Industrial_Valves.html#a645B

I'm sure you could cobble up a connection using bsp fittings

David


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi


I have been using the same sort of method for years. I carry a small 12v compressor in the van for topping up the tyres on the bikes and the van and I use this to blow through the van water system.

On our current van I have made a couple of adaptors for the small compressor, one that fits into the fresh tank overflow pipe and one that fits onto the water pipe where it leaves the water pump in the pressurised system ( I disconnect the pipe at the pump).

Using these simple push fit rubber adaptors and the compressor while opening the various different outlets such as the frost valve on the Combi, the drain on the fresh tank and the hot and cold taps.

It takes a bit of care and thought over which outlets to open or close but with this method I can evacuate all the water from the system really quickly.

More by accident than plan I found that the push fit rubber adaptors do blow out if the pressure created by the little compressor gets to high and this turns out to be a good safety system.... as I would not want to explode the fresh tank :roll: :roll: 


Mike


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Techno100 said:


> drcotts said:
> 
> 
> > I made and fitted my own system from parts obtained from work but now I have it its left in place and as the other OP says 10 mins and you are done.
> ...


Hi techno

I fitted a 5mm to 1/2in bsp barb on one side of the valve and then got a cheap inflator and cut the trye valve off the end(with enough pipe to be reconnected f required) so that the pipe can be pushed over the barb.. if you have anough space and you get one of the small cheap inlfators it can be left in place although i dont on mine.

I used 12mm push fittings for the main pipe - all obtained from work so i am luck but they are easily avilable off ebay

Phill


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

So far I'm watching this
MALE BRANCH TEE HOSE CONNECTOR 12mm to 3/4 BSP
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320817841...eName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

And this
INLINE SHUT OFF VALVE 12mm BARBED
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261387060650?var=560285681757


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Well you might say I'm restless and bored :lol:
Stole the old tap connector from the garden and found an old MTB inner tube in the house.
Cut the end of the tap connector so the valve protrudes far enough.
I doubt the washer will be needed.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Techno100 said:


> Well you might say I'm restless and bored :lol:
> Stole the old tap connector from the garden and found an old MTB inner tube in the house.
> Cut the end of the tap connector so the valve protrudes far enough.
> I doubt the washer will be needed.


Brilliant Idea Techno


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

I like the tap connector conversion Techno!

Just thought I would add a little extra about why I use the overflow pipe on the fresh water tank as one of the places that I connect the compressor.

With our previous van I had installed a shut off valve ( like the one in Techno's link) that isolated the fresh water tank and this allowed me to blow through the whole of the rest of the water system. 
On our current van I found that the solid drain down pipe from the fresh water tank always had some water left in it close to the tank even after draining down because the end of the pipe is slightly higher than the bottom of the tank. 
This is partly due to how the van is parked and partly due to the way the pipe is fitted (poor design?) .... but if I remember to open the drain valve before coming home from a trip it would sometimes empty out completely when we went around a few corners but usually when it was time to drain down the van was at home on the drive and the tank would have water in it. 
After draining that away the drain down pipe would often hold some water. During the first freeze up we experienced with the new van sat on the drive the left over water in drain down pipe froze and blew the connections apart near the tank. Not difficult to fix but annoying! So now I blow this left over water out with the compressor.

Sometime I intend to alter the fixed drain down pipe by making it flexible just as I have done with the grey waste pipe then this will not be a problem ( see picture below)...like they say I will do it when I getaroundtuit :lol:










Mike

P.S the fresh water drain down is the insulated pipe with the blue tap on the end :wink:


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## Drew (May 30, 2005)

drcotts said:


> Opening the taps and all that..how does that empty the pump.
> 
> The pump will have a non return to keep it primed and so will remain full of water.


Run the pump for a few seconds and it should clear any water remaining in it and the pipework.

For as long as I can remember in all our caravans and in our 3 motorhomes we've never have had a problem with frozen pipes.

With the pump switched off. Drain main tank - Open all taps - Open dump valve. When all the water has drained, close dump valve and turn on pump for a few seconds, This should drain the pipework of all water. Open dump valve.

Job complete.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Last time I drained down after I had blown down the taps etc I decided to turn the pump on for a few seconds. 

A LARGE amount of water then siphoned itself out of the system! no idea where it came from :roll:


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Drew said:


> drcotts said:
> 
> 
> > Opening the taps and all that..how does that empty the pump.
> ...


Pumps in motorhomes are different...and this is important!

Some vans, as with Drew's and mine, will have a pressurised water system and a diaphragm pump such as a Shurflow fitted in the pipework which is capable of running dry for short periods and when doing that is can "blow" most of the residual water left in the pipes out of the taps.

Other vans, maybe like drcotts van, will have a submersible pump positioned in the fresh water tank.
These type of pumps are activated by micro switches hidden inside the tap base and they can rarely raise enough pressure to push out the residual water left in the pipes once the tank is empty and the pump is running "dry". 
With this type of pump fitted using a compressor to blow out the residual water is maybe the only certain way to ensure that the water system is completely empty.

Mike


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Techno100 said:


> Well you might say I'm restless and bored :lol:
> Stole the old tap connector from the garden and found an old MTB inner tube in the house.
> Cut the end of the tap connector so the valve protrudes far enough.
> I doubt the washer will be needed.


I've spent under £15 on eBay to make this a functioning system for a European Motorhome with flexible pipes and barbed connections
Floe kit for above is £54 delivered , punching a bit high on rrp lol

Results and pictures to follow soon


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

First key part arrived £3.55


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)




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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Techno100 said:


>


So -

How much can you market the kit for?

:wink:


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

The black valve is not required. I've been reliably informed that the tyre valve won't mind water.
Tested today 8) spat out a good pint of hidden H2O


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## Stanner (Aug 17, 2006)

Stanner said:


> Techno100 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Bump?


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Not considered dragons den :lol:


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

Techno. Cay yours be left in place so all you have to do is open one valve and shut Tother and put the air in then reverse the valves or are you taking the system out of line each time (thats what it looks like your doing) 

Phill


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Yes left in place and only one valve, the shut off from the tank.


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## drcotts (Feb 23, 2006)

ahh i see the set up now. 
very good mate

You are gonna put clips on the hose joints on the T through...yes

Phill


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Yes indeed 
I ran out and I'm waiting for more but it was airtight enough for a 15psi test :thumbup:


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)




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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

I must be getting senile, even after you explained it, I'm not sure I get it Andy.

The Shrader valve looks to be on the input side of the pump, so I'd expect it to blow into the fresh tank side of the Shurflo, not the tap side, as my filter is on the input side of the pump.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

The Schraeder IS on the input side of the pump. The White tap with the BIG RED KNOB stops air going back to the tank and then out the overflow


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Techno100 said:


> The Schraeder IS on the input side of the pump. The White tap with the BIG RED KNOB stops air going back to the tank and then out the overflow


OK, so the air blows through the pump emptying that too, Hmm clever.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Yup 8)


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

Techno100 said:


> The Schraeder IS on the input side of the pump. The White tap with the BIG RED KNOB stops air going back to the tank and then out the overflow


So, are you pushing air through the pump to clear that of water as well? Is there a 'one-way' valve in the line on the output side?

Your system looks good - just needs to be modified a little for a submerged pump i.e. 'shut-off' valve and Schraeder valve in pipe-work just after it leaves the tank.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Is there a 'one-way' valve in the line on the output side? 

Why would it need one? the only way out for the air is through opening a tap etc


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

Techno100 said:


> Is there a 'one-way' valve in the line on the output side?
> 
> Why would it need one? the only way out for the air is through opening a tap etc


Forgive my apparent ignorance,  obviously, from your answer, the Whale type pump doesn't drain back to the tank as a submerged type pump would - just wondered if it would cause a problem when the system is pressurised - but if a one-way valve will take the water pressure, then no doubt it will take 15 psi air pressure. 

Keith (Sprokit)


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

sprokit said:


> Techno100 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a 'one-way' valve in the line on the output side?
> ...


My pump is 21psi, so 15 shouldn't be a problem.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

Keith you will still need a valve to isolate your pump or you'll just fill your tank with compressed air.
The purpose of the white/tap valve in my picture is to stop the air going to my tank purely because it will go straight out of the overflow and thus not pressurise at all


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Will the blow out method empty the carver and other water heaters too, or will the still need to be drained?


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

watch the video
http://www.keepfloeing.com/products-motorhome.html


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Techno100 said:


> watch the video
> http://www.keepfloeing.com/products-motorhome.html


Ah, that was helpful, I noticed at 16:20 that the bathroom basin didn't drain.

So you do need to drain the water heater first.

It's a good option for me as due to the 75mm floor thickness I didn't fit a Truma dump valve although I did buy one.


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## davidjlambert (Sep 25, 2012)

Andy

Where did you source the black valve in your Mark 1 version which you've since omitted.
I think I'm more comfortable with a valve having had a variety of problems with Schrader valves over the years.

Thanks

David


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## spykal (May 9, 2005)

Hi

Just another thought while we are on the subject of draining down.

In really sub zero conditions like we had last winter and the van is stood on the drive. As well as draining down the pipework by using my DIY connector and a compressor I add a little antifreeze to each waste pipe this then sits in the traps two of which, on my van, are situated under the van. They are insulated but I like a belt and braces approach. 

I have tried blowing them out too but the larger pipe diameter of the waste pipes makes ensuring that all the water in the trap is blown out difficult...mainly because my small 12v compressor does not have enough puff to do it.


Mike


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## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Ah, I'm ahead on this one. 

My shower drain has a clear out so no problem, and tbe sink and hob waste are both vertical.


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## Techno100 (May 8, 2010)

davidjlambert said:


> Andy
> 
> Where did you source the black valve in your Mark 1 version which you've since omitted.
> I think I'm more comfortable with a valve having had a variety of problems with Schrader valves over the years.
> ...


Here David 
£4.39
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251240420660?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


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