# Report of Jans breakdown



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Tomorrow we will know more about the Navajo. As it was Friday afternoon nothing gets looked at until Monday,- tomorrow.

Although it was a dreadful shock when the van just stopped in the road and would not restart, it just said no engine when I tried, it was so lucky it didn't happen on the motorway where there were many roadworks with single line traffic, that would have been the worst thing that could have happened. It had also been pouring with rain for quite a long time, but at this point had eased off. If Heike had not been driving the Forester behind goodness knows what would have happened. She did everything very efficiently ringing the insurance man and then all the rest, she is a Wonder Woman. Within two hours the pickup truck arrived and an hour or so later it was ready to take away, which had to be done behind the truck because we don´t have, or if we have I have never seen it and he couldn´t find the special hook to attach the tow hook to that pulls it up onto the trailer.
What a girl she is, the back of the car was full of stuff, from 2 Apple computers in their boxes, 2 suitcases, a sewing machine, 2 folding garden chairs and loads of jackets plus lots of small stuff. We then gathered up what was important for me to have and Motley was on my lap in the front. We soon realised this was no way to travel 200 km. and she quickly found a place to stop and repack everything to enable us to reinstate the back seat where Motley and I could sit. The back of the car was piled to the roof and front seat chock-a-block full. She then drove non stop home with rain the whole way.

Motley and I have a nice room to be in for the winter time, several people will be keeping a eye on the house and 2 have keys to go in to check during the winter months. I have left the heating on frost and this should be fine. Both Heike and Jürgen are glad to have me here and I am having a lot of cuddles from them both all day long.

We have a nice grass area right outside the house where we can walk and Motley is enjoying the sniffs because there are more dogs around here than there were at home and hopefully when the rain stops he will be meeting more dogs, and people of course, but its been raining almost non stop since we got here.
I'm still a bit `shell shocked´ from the experience and am not looking forward to having to go back 200 km to fetch the van, which won't happen until the earliest next Friday when Heike has no work. I will of course let you know as soon as know what what wrong with the engine.

When we got home we remembered the fridge which had to be left full including the freezer compartment that was packed tight with meat, I had left it on gas and thought maybe they will turn off the gas at the bottles, so Heike rang yesterday and spoke to the office to ask them to plug it into the electricity and go inside to turn the fridge to electric, hopefully they did it or otherwise we will have a mess. Tomorrow we must make sure they have done it.


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Let's hope it's something simple to fix........ And cheap.

Try to remain the "glass half full" lady we know so well, and enjoy the company of the good friends who are supporting you.
.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Don't worry about it Jan. It can be fixed and fridges can be cleaned.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Nightmare Jan!

That hook you mentioned - when I thought I might need it, I realised it came in the case with the lifting gear (which I'd left in my son's garage cos there was no way I was going to be doing that myself). 

It's now in the satchel with all the MH info, onboard!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> Nightmare Jan!
> 
> That hook you mentioned - when I thought I might need it, I realised it came in the case with the lifting gear (which I'd left in my son's garage cos there was no way I was going to be doing that myself).
> 
> It's now in the satchel with all the MH info, onboard!


Yes Jean, I have been told 
elsewhere where to find it, I had no idea such a thing existed :frown2:


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a spare for the Hobby no longer needed Jean if you need another.

Ray.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank goodness, as you say, you were not on the motorway!

Glad you have reached safety and hope that the Navajo follows soon.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

raynipper said:


> I have a spare for the Hobby no longer needed Jean if you need another.
> 
> Ray.


Thanks Ray, I'm hoping I never need the one I now carry with me! The time I realised I didn't have it was on a Britstop with a very muddy, slippy, rutted track. The host was under my van looking for it.

Fortunately my driving skills got me out of that one!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

No definite news today, nothing can be seen from the top, it has to go up on the ramp and they were occupied today.
He did say it sounds as if something has broken in the engine :frown2: or the transmission


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Have they the facilities to attach a fault code reader Jan ? 

It could give a more definitive cause of the problem, if they don’t use fault code readers I suggest you get a more competent garage to investigate as it’s the first thing any competent set up would do.

Good luck, you’re due some.

Terry


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

dghr272 said:


> Have they the facilities to attach a fault code reader Jan ?
> 
> It could give a more definitive cause of the problem, if they don't use fault code readers I suggest you get a more competent garage to investigate as it's the first thing any competent set up would do.
> 
> ...


My secretary will ring again and ask tomorrow :laugh:, the van is 200 km away Terry and this was the garage the ADAC took it to, it can only be moved with a breakdown truck.


----------



## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

JanHank said:


> dghr272 said:
> 
> 
> > Have they the facilities to attach a fault code reader Jan ?
> ...


200km Jan?? I had presumed you were in Germany. Where have they taken it? Back to Italy?!


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Germany is a big place Peter. I drove across it one and took over a day.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

peribro said:


> 200km Jan?? I had presumed you were in Germany. Where have they taken it? *Back* to Italy?!


As I haven´t been there Peter they could hardly take it back to Italy. Pay attention at the back, I am now 650 km away from my home in Brandenburg North Germany, I'm now in the Rheinland Pfalz which is just over half way down. You'd have a job to drive from top to bottom in one day, across is possible at the narrow part :grin2: Aachen to Cottbus would be a struggle I think.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*This is where the Navajo is on holiday*

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwiZ2LqgnIzlAhVCLFAKHTVxDZwQoiowCnoECA8QBg


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Would the Navajo have a computer to be read Terry?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Would the Navajo have a computer to be read Terry?


The computer is not in the Van Pat, it´s a special one the mechanic should have, even our local mechanic Gordon has one, cost a couple of thousand, but saves them a lot of time. They plug it into somewhere under the dash board and it tells them all sorts of things.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

It would not have been any good on our old Hymer as it had no computer in the engine for it to read and diagnose from! Chris always had to figure it out himself. Sorry did not know how old the Navajo is and whether it was the same??


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I need advice urgently.

The engine has to be taken apart because something, they don´t know what for sure, but it may be the Crankshaft is broken.

Question is do I let them fix it or have it taken to a Fiat garage, They say it could cost 6-7 thousand € to fix.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Worth asking about the price of a reconditioned engine. How old is Jan? That might help your decision. The crankshaft means a total dismantle of the engine - I had that once on a Morris 1000 engine when the crankshaft snapped - it takes time and needs to be handled gently once done for a little while so that everything can settle down.

A new engine may well be 10k€ but a reconditioned one may be less than what they are quoting at present and their quote assumes no subsequent damage by metal shards or the broken shaft. If your engine has already done a fair mileage then I would favour a reconditioned one if available. If not the pprice they have estimated may increase as they take it apart and find it needs more bits.

While a Fiat van garage (not a car one) may have experience and expertise their price per hour may be much higher and that could make the ill a great deal more.......

Hence my reticence to give a hard and fast answer - sorry....


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Oh my goodness!!

Can your insurer give you any advice?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I am checking with Tyne Valley where we bought it to see if the engine is still under Guarantee, its only done just over 44,000 km.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

How old is your van Jan? What mileage?

I'm sure it's out of warranty but anything as major as a broken crankshaft is absurd in a youngish. low mileage motorhome driven by a mature person. If it was mine I'd have it taken to a Fiat dealer and I'd want a very comprehensive explanation and I think I'd be expecting the manufacturer to at least contribute to the repair. 

To be quite honest it sounds an absurd failure, even if it is true. It just shouldn't happen, not without some other cause. 

Speculating here. Eurajohn will know better. But I'd think perhaps a top end failure leaving something for a piston to whack, and even then breaking the crank is a good trick.

Fiat garage and explanation for sure I'd say. Then decide what's next.

Rotten luck.


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Agree with all Alan posted, a broken crankshaft is without doubt a catastrophic failure and certainly not usual for a relatively new van. 

Their code reader should be able to pick up the sequence of errors that led to such a failure unless it was defective material in the shaft itself. A crankshaft is a substantial piece of metal that would not snap easily. I’ve seen a camshaft failure causing valve contact and damage to pistons and con rods but not breaking crankshafts.

Definitely get another opinion Jan.

Terry


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

If, as I read it, the engine has not been dismantled yet - and doing so would require authorisation for probably half the cost if not a bit more.... then their suspicion is that it MIGHT be the crankshaft but I have only ever heard of one and that was mine on the much lighter build petrol engine for a Morris 1000 A series engine.

That being the case my suspicion would be cam belt failure leading to catastrophic top end damage. Do you know if it has ever been replaced as the recommendation is five years or a mileage which I do not know.

I read that yours is a 2014 bought by you in 2015 and it is not likely that a dealer would replace a cam belt on a one year old engine..... so five years from 2014 brings you to......

The only way of finding out is to strip the engine, a cam belt breaking can damage the cylinders and the pistons when things are open that should not be, but the crankshaft would only snap if the force applied to it was truly enormous - that is why Diesel engines are built so heavily because of how they work.

That is not an answer though and without some dismantling you may not get an answer -sadly no dealer is likely to listen until they hear what the actual problem is..... which means expense, but if it is the cam belt they may well say it is due to a lack of maintenance as you should have replaced it after five years from manufacture.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

In your initial report you said it made a grinding noise and stopped and then it said "no engine".
From experience ladies interpretation of noises is often less than accurate, can you add anything to the explanation, but I don't understand the no engine, was that message displayed on the dash?

After it stopped when you tried to restart did the engine turn over and if so did it appear to turn more quickly on the starter than normal?

.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Me, like Jon Snow, know nothing 

So crossing fingers and toes and hoping Jan 

Sandra


----------



## powerplus (Oct 6, 2014)

h
im sorry to hear that you have had more worries 

do you think the garage has the equipment and capabilities to take on a strip and rebuild of an engine, especially a fiat ducato engine with all the electronics that will need resetting

i think the van should really go to a garage that specializes in small commercial vans as most car garages just dont have the space to store a van that is bieng worked on

i am wondering if they really meant the crankshaft as it is more common for it to be the timing belt/ camshafts 

and checking the timing belt should only take them a short time and should be ruled out first

possibly you could get adac to get involved

barry


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

powerplus said:


> h
> im sorry to hear that you have had more worries
> 
> do you think the garage has the equipment and capabilities to take on a strip and rebuild of an engine, especially a fiat ducato engine with all the electronics that will need resetting
> ...


As I'm no lady :grin2: maybe my noise description is right, I told Heike it sounded as if a belt had broken and got caught, the engine immediately cut out and I turned the key to start and it just made a clonk as if the battery was absolutely flat and the no engine was on the dash panel. 
The garage is an ADAC garage and they are my breakdown people. I have put a link on this thread for the exact garage, but here it is again. They are not a Fiat garage.
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwiZ2LqgnIzlAhVCLFAKHTVxDZwQoiowCnoECA8QBg


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

JanHank said:


> As I'm no lady :grin2: maybe my noise description is right, I told Heike it sounded as if a belt had broken and got caught, the engine immediately cut out and I turned the key to start and it just made a clonk as if the battery was absolutely flat and the no engine was on the dash panel.
> The garage is an ADAC garage and they are my breakdown people. I have put a link on this thread for the exact garage, but here it is again. They are not a Fiat garage.
> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwiZ2LqgnIzlAhVCLFAKHTVxDZwQoiowCnoECA8QBg


Some vans have all the luck >

I'm only joking Jan

Gosh I get so worried these days

Have I offended someone ?

Sandra


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

I can only guess from your comments you were replying to my reply / questions not the one from powerplus.

Normally if a belt breaks or strips its teeth then the engine will spin over on the starter motor much quicker than is normal.
If it stopped with a clunk and then wouldn't turn over I fear there is a very strong possibility that the crank has broken, or perhaps the dual mass flywheel has disintegrated.
Under the circumstances I do believe it will need some in depth work to find the problem.

The business you link to would appear to be a decent and well equipped one and I see no reason why they would not be competent to carry out whatever work is necessary.
I can see no advantage to having it removed to a Fiat franchise unless there is the unlikely chance that Fiat will contribute to the cost.

.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*Update*

Not made any progress until today.

As the Hess garage cannot liaise with Fiat, they are not agents or a Fiat garage, the Navajo will be brought to Limburg 15 km from here to a Fiat garage for them to carry on. An expensive affair, but there is nothing else I can do.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

At least nearer to you Jan to see and decide in front of you. Good luck.

Ray.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I agree with Ray that it seems a better way to proceed, even at a cost. 



Also maybe Heike and hubby, if not mechanical themselves, can find you a knowledgeable person nearby willing to help you in discussing with the garage.


Don't forget the advice to insist on a read-out before they start doing anything. I suggest the read-out is also sent to FIAT for their consideration. As should all reports and photos during strip-down. And copies for you to keep.


Keep us informed, although your posts have got a bit split between forums and threads. Maybe you can consolidate them, or get someone to do it.


Good luck.



Geoff


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Have they advised you of what failed yet Jan?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

eurajohn said:


> Have they advised you of what failed yet Jan?


No John, that will be done by the Fiat garage when it gets there.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Ah well, at least things are moving forward. Good Luck Jan/


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That will make interesting reading I should think.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I really hope it’s fine Jan
Is it better it’s nearer to you ?

As usual I can only cross my fingers and hope 

I know nothing about moving parts in MHomes

Sandra


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Hope it's nothing too serious Jan.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

greygit said:


> Hope it's nothing too serious Jan.


Probably is, but I have to grin and bare it I´m afraid.


----------



## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

JanHank said:


> Probably is, but I have to grin and bare it I´m afraid.


Hell I hope not!! Like me, I think you're a bit past your prime!


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

On a positive not, we had a service done on our car at the local Ford agent here in Spain ,it was a full service and it was half the price we were paying in the UK. I had a big grin on my face when they passed us the bill.:smile2:


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Hope they did a full service and not a part one GG.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*photos of my engine*

The garage sent today with the.
A valve on the first cylinder has been torn off, causing considerable engine damage. 
Furthermore, there are metal chips in the entire charging system from this engine damage.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

So in simple mechanics terms "it dropped a valve"!

The reference to charging is not the electrical charging but the turbo element of the system.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Blooming hell Jan. Made a right mess there. Hope a suitable repair can be made for less than the initial estimate.

Ray.


----------



## Pudsey_Bear (Sep 25, 2008)

Did valve one take pout valve two? it looks like a new block and head at least, unless they can re-sleeve it, dunno on that model.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Ouch, that hurts.....

I am not sure that I would be 100% happy with that engine ever again, it only takes the tiniest fragment of the very hard valve metal to have got anywhere else and perhaps just be lurking in one of the oil pathways. 

How does the estimated cost of repair compare with a reconditioned engine which will have been fully dismantled and rebuilt? That way my fears would have been totally removed, it's what I did with an old Morris 1000 Traveller back in 1971, but when my Volvo did something similar to yours it wrecked most of the valves and lots of other bits when the cam belt went - the tensioner had not been replaced by the dealer when they replaced the belt - bad mistake.....


----------



## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

I don't know the exact engine type but a recon engine is the way I would go such as this 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iveco-Da...960600?hash=item3fbf550858:g:LTYAAOSwhkRWeCfv


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I reckon tis buggert Jan.

I'd still like to know why a valve failed though.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have just spoken to Amanda, she is the interpreter, in the UK.
The head office Germany have said no good will is in the offering
because the warranty is 3 years out of date, the book was not stamped for the last service and the service was not done by a fiat agent. It´s a hopeless situation it seems.
Amanda says if I ring Head office Germany they will put me onto her as she is the official interpreter.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry to hear that Jan. It was hoping for rather a lot, but still worth a try.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Gordon lead us to believe he was able to do the service, but not warranty work, its all a bag of sh!t.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

If Gordon runs a properly set up garage he can. https://www.autotrader.com/car-shop...ar-dealership-keep-your-warranty-valid-258716

The comment from Fiat is hot air to support their refusal. It'd have been just the same had it been a Fiat dealer in all probability.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Unfortunately that does seem to be the answer / conclusion from Fiat in most of the cases I've seen information of.

The only ones I'm aware of that have succeeded are the well publicised "juddergate" and a few just out of warranty (by a few months) relating to robotised gearbox problems.

Time to get on with future life Jan.

.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Jan, can you afford to consider a side opening MH that could double up as a car ?

You know what I mean 

Now there’s just you and motley 

That way you can continue your travels , parking won’t be an issue 

I’m not sure that throwing good money after bad is worth it 

I thought that you Could get your vehicle serviced at any garage, without invalidating the warranty 

But out of warranty I guess it’s an uphill struggle to get compensation 

You have been through it girl

Sandra


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Very sorry to hear that Jan. You could do without having to make these decisions at this time.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Bad news although we know the service was done as there was an electronic trail wasn't there? Still it sounds like your going to struggle with Fiat but keep pecking at them. The recon route might be the way to go I dunno. What a complete PIA.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*The final decision*

After almost 3 months without it I have decided to do as I first said and bite the bullet.
This morning Heike rang the fiat garage and spoke to the son of the owner.
The engine parts are being renewed to guard against any hidden splinters rearing their ugly heads.
The engine will then have a 2 year Guarantee.
We have also established the son can speak some English and there is a lady in the office who speaks English, I have therefore decided I will go to introduce myself next week and the *young man* :grin2: was very pleased to hear that so we can now sit face to face.
Therefore after next week it´s all systems go and hopefully all will be finished by Christmas.

This will then be one worry off my mind.

The second worry about the house is also being acted upon and hopefully it won't be too long before I hear something which, fingers crossed will be in my favour.

As I am being told by those involved not to lose sleep about what I will do with the house once this is all sorted, so I try not to worry.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Sounds like you may have turned the corner, Jan. Hopefully things will start to move in the right direction for you now. The guarantee on the engine would give me a lot of comfort. Rooting for you


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Heike has just phoned them to get on with it and do you know it was such a relief I started to cry.:crying:


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

The relief must be really considerable sand it certainly sounds like they are willing to back the quality of their work - all of which will help allay fears about tiny metal shards lurking in some corner...

Back by Christmas seems reasonable, are you going to wrap it all up and open it for Christmas ? It would need a rather large stocking to put at the end of your bed. 😀😆

Glad to hear that progress will be made - a MH without an engine is only useful as a chicken house.... 🐔🐣🐥


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Jan


Decision made. Must be a relief.


The 2 year guarantee will give you some comfort.


I.hope the news re the house documents is good.


How is Marion?


Geoff


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

I can well understand the emotions you have felt, and their release when you made your choice. 

There's nothing wrong with a bubble now and again as your camper is far more than just a vehicle to travel around in - It carries so many past memories, and the opportunity to create new ones in the future.

A Christmas with good friends, and a new year with new travels alongside Motley. Fantastic!
.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm so glad things are on the move for you Jan. I'm sure you feel as if you've been holding your breath for weeks and now you can let go.

Fingers crossed it all goes well.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I visited the Navajo this afternoon, first time I have seen it since October the 4th.
The garage people are very professional, friendly and understanding. 
I showed them bills Gordon our mechanic at home had sent me and the boss spotted within seconds they were for 2 different vehicles because of prices and the amount of oil used.
My poor van is very ill, but it will have a good surgeon and as long as the parts arrive soon will be ready at the end of next week.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

That's a revealing photograph. They haven't taken the engine out which would probably indicate that they haven't found any bottom end damage, which would be very welcome, if rather surprising, news.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> That's a revealing photograph. They haven't taken the engine out which would probably indicate that they haven't found any bottom end damage, which would be very welcome, if rather surprising, news.


Everything will be taken out and renewed Alan, not much will remain because they don´t know where the splinter of metal ended up.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> That's a revealing photograph. They haven't taken the engine out which would probably indicate that they haven't found any bottom end damage, which would be very welcome, if rather surprising, news.


I don´t think much will remain because they don´t know where the splinter of metal ended up.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes, that sounds right Jan. There looks to be piston damage. Can't see the bore but it really doesn't look salvageable.

Still there's a lot of value in your van so it is definitely well worth fixing.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

It's more than money value Alan.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Value is a lot more than money for me too Jan.

One of the expressions I like most concerns people who measure things by monetary value.

They know the price of everything and the value of nothing


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Ooh, I feel for your poor van Jan! It looks a bit like my grandson's photo - he just lost 2 more front teeth this morning!!


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

erneboy said:


> Value is a lot more than money for me too Jan.
> 
> One of the expressions I like most concerns people who measure things by monetary value.
> 
> They know the price of everything and the value of nothing *and typically are staunch Tory supporters*


You missed a little bit out..... happy to help you but feel free to ignore if you wish :grin2:


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

jiwawa said:


> Ooh, I feel for your poor van Jan! It looks a bit like my grandson's photo - *he just lost 2 more front teeth this morning!*!


Was he getting lippy with Grandma again?


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

It would take some punch to land 120 miles away Geoff!!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

This winter I don´t know where the Navajo will stand, probably no electricity available, so my question is how far and how often will I need to drive it to keep the batteries in good condition?


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Suspect they will have to disconnect the vehicle battery anyway, and the hab battery could be disconnected as well, so why not save yourself the hassle and bring them back with you to keep them in a good state where your staying and save the travelling back and forth ?

Terry

Just read your post again, thought you meant whilst they had it for repair.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

dghr272 said:


> Suspect they will have to disconnect the vehicle battery anyway, and the hab battery could be disconnected as well, so why not save yourself the hassle and bring them back with you to keep them in a good state where your staying and save the travelling back and forth ?
> 
> Terry
> 
> Just read your post again, thought you meant whilst they had it for repair.


You are right Terry, they have disconnected them sometime back, hopefully no harm has come to them.
By the way the vehicle battery is massive and the 2 hab. batteries are heavy there is no room here to keep them, but hopefully it will be fixed end of next week, I imagine they will charge the batteries as part of the end check.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Read Jeans charging problems Jan.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Read Jeans charging problems Jan.
> 
> Ray.


Blimey all Riley I only need to make sure they don´t run down during non use, I think a lot of people overwinter their vans where electricity is not available don´t they? I won't be using it to live in, but probably will have a day trip now and then and hopefully that will keep the batteries charged, won't it?


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Leave a relatively modern van standing idle for two weeks and you could have battery problems due to the parasitic loads. Yes give it a run of several miles once a fortnight or charge it up like Jean.

Ray.


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Do you not have solar panel/s fitted?

The worry for you will be the van battery, the habitation side of things will be OK if you ensure they are fully charged and then preferably disconnect them from the system or if your control panel allows, switch the habitation electrics off.

For the van battery you will some sort of supplementary top up because as Ray says there are parasitic loads that will drain the battery within a few weeks.
Probably the easiest will be a small solar panel, that will be able to see whatever available sun there is something like this one https://www.amazon.fr/SEALEY-Solar-Power-Panel-1-5w/dp/B000ROB1NY/ref=asc_df_B000ROB1NY/?tag=googshopfr-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=313723502566&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2554059300234517817&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9055638&hvtargid=pla-596630169815&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61402277014&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=313723502566&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2554059300234517817&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9055638&hvtargid=pla-596630169815
You'll need to install it properly though and not just plug into the cigarette lighter socket as on the Ducato they are not live with ignition off, easy enough to do and if you choose that route we can talk you through it.
This type of small panels don't need a charge controller so nice and simple.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I just disconnect both my batteries, hab and engine and leave then outside all winter in the van. Never have any problems. Just connect them up again when I want to use the van and they are fine.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

We USED to leave out Swift in a car park as we were renting a tiny cottage with no road access. The alarm system would flatten the vehicle battery in less than 3 weeks. I put a 7w briefcase solar panel in the windscreen, facing south and since then have had no problems.....

Until after surgery we used the MH and MrsW forgot to deploy the panel. When we went back 3 months later it was like a pancake and even with mains charging would not recover and hold a charge

*MORAL:* brief MrsW more thoroughly - it was my fault ( comme d'habitude 🙄 )

I would NOT disconnect vehicle battery UNLESS you know all the codes for e.g. the radio, the alarm system as often alarms include an engine immobiliser....


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Yes there is a solar panel, but as the electrical system has been shy off it won't be working. I imagine the fiat garage know what they are doing and won't allow the batteries to go flat, it's after I collect it I 'm talking about.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I keep reading about 'Jans breakdown'. Hope you have recovered Jan and back stable.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> I keep reading about 'Jans breakdown'. Hope you have recovered Jan and back stable.
> 
> Ray.


I haven´t had my personal breakdown yet Raymond, but its getting very close :frown2:

Just had the Insurance demand for next year. 1,049,93€ for the Navajo and 833.92€ the Forester :crying:


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Strewth Jan. It was three years ago but I managed to get our Hobby ins down to €250 with a limited mileage (kms) of under 7,000km.
Don't just automatically renew, check out the competition. Maybe you changed it to your sole name and Hans had the NCD.??

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Strewth Jan. It was three years ago but I managed to get our Hobby ins down to €250 with a limited mileage (kms) of under 7,000km.
> Don't just automatically renew, check out the competition. Maybe you changed it to your sole name and Hans had the NCD.??
> 
> Ray.


Here the NCB is passed on.:smile2: but the Forester is much too high. I am in touch with the agent.


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

flipping heck Jan 
I thought our van insurance was expensive 

Sandra


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

My full comp with breakdown on our 2014 Tiguan is €560. Just received a €100 refund due to my mileage (km) below their limit. 

Ray.


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

raynipper said:


> My full comp with breakdown on our 2014 Tiguan is €560. Just received a €100 refund due to my mileage (km) below their limit.
> 
> Ray.


On our Knaus here in Spain with fully comp and breakdown just over E400. :smile2:


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

You don't sT what make or year the van is Gitty.


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Jan the van is German Knaus and it's a 2010 but we have had brand new Van's that haven't cost that much more. You need to play one agent against another I find, don't rely on just one.:smile2:


----------



## HermanHymer (Dec 5, 2008)

JanHank said:


> Blimey all Riley I only need to make sure they don´t run down during non use, I think a lot of people overwinter their vans where electricity is not available don´t they? I won't be using it to live in, but probably will have a day trip now and then and hopefully that will keep the batteries charged, won't it?


I store my van every winter for +- 6 months with the main battery disconnected, the leisure battery switched OFF. On my return I re-connect, check the meter/s, starts first time I drive away. By the time I've driven some miles to my first overnight destination or the servicing garage, all's back up to full speed. No long term negative impact on batteries. Changed twice (2nd time recently) in 12 years. Use a good strong battery for the motor, leisure battery is gel and smaller so they have only been replaced when failed. The last time a couple of months ago it was the pc board that correlates the power equally to the 2 batteries that failed. The electronics auto electrician at the camper service centre in Delft repaired it himself rather than sourcing a new part. (What a star!) So I just replaced the battery as well. Might have needed it, maybe not. But how much was I going to save in hassle and money by waiting till the death? Now I'm seeing much better match in power levels so maybe that's been a problem for a while.
Any comments from the experts on the forum?


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Keep doing what your doing Viv.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...t_reply&notif_id=1575920288665766&ref=m_notif

You may see what I wrote on a fiat Facebook page if you open the above. I had a fiat reply to my first post, but so far nothing from what followed.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

That links not working Jan.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I don't know how else to show you, it works for me and it has worked for someone who lives in France.
Any suggest what I can do for you to see it and maybe comment?


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Not working here in Spain either Jan.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

greygit said:


> Not working here in Spain either Jan.


https://m.facebook.com/FiatDeutschl...2890489592&reply_comment_id=10157894680664592

Try this one, you have to scroll past the cars.


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

JanHank said:


> https://m.facebook.com/FiatDeutschl...2890489592&reply_comment_id=10157894680664592
> 
> Try this one, you have to scroll past the cars.


Works for me now Jan, pics below for any that can't see the detail.

Terry


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Nice try Jan. You never know.

It's interesting how the Fiat person signed off by saying that they are the "social media team" and unfortunately they can do no more. It's a handy cop out and I'm sure it's true because it's the best thing for Fiat to do. It's designed to tell complaining customers politely but firmly that they are wasting their efforts posting complaints and that the media team won't be engaging on the topic again. If customers wish to persist they've been helped by the kind media team redirecting them to customer service where they can go round and round in circles getting new case numbers till the repetition grinds them down.

It's a common tactic with big companies. Fob you off till you go away.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Maybe, just maybe, if enough people comment on it saying it must have been a faulty part to start with someone from the real fiat might respond.

I hadn´t seen the second response you referred to Alan until this minute. I am going to ask them to try ringing the number, its a dreadful way for such a big company have the answer phone respond, so much background noise you can´t understand whats being said.:frown2:


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I would comment if I could find the thread.


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Is there an association that motor manufacturers belong to? Something like The Association of Motor Manufacturers?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> I would comment if I could find the thread.


I just clicked on Terry´s link and got it.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

patp said:


> Is there an association that motor manufacturers belong to? Something like The Association of Motor Manufacturers?


Yes Pat. Thats it exactly. Maybe Association of motor manufacturers.

Ray.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Ah, I can't even see Terry's link. 

I can open the link you posted Jan but if I scroll down I don't see your comments. The page I see has only six short comments on it. I do see a line of clickable photograph video links of cars across the top of the page they won't scroll to the side so I can't go past them that way.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Yes Pat. Thats it exactly. Maybe Association of motor manufacturers.
> 
> Ray.


What would I say to them and what would they do?
I´ve truly had enough hassle to last the rest of my life in the last 3 months, I wont peace and quiet now.
It´s difficult handling all this stuff when you´re on your own, I can´t take over other peoples lives with my problems.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Dunno Jan. Sometimes you need to just sit and reflect. If and when an idea occurs to you go for it but don't chase or get stressed.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Ah, I can't even see Terry's link.
> 
> I can open the link you posted Jan but if I scroll down I don't see your comments. The page I see has only six short comments on it. I do see a line of clickable photograph video links of cars across the top of the page they won't scroll to the side so I can't go past them that way.


Sorry, Terry´s link is the same as mine he was quoting me. :frown2: silly me.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

I have added my six penn'orth..... our clutch has had to be replaced at just over 30k miles methinks there may be a few tolerances that are TOO tight and adverse wear may be apparent.

Bad publicity on social media may well not get anywhere as Fiat know there is little choice for MH so they can duck away from goodwill gestures since the opposit is unlikely to affect their sales.....

But, every little helps, so any Fiat faults brought into the open may result in something - probably the deletion of the thread....


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have just received on FB messenger.
This is what I wrote on their fB page this morning:-

I just come off the phone to speak English. Italian who's name I could not understand. He looked at the case numbers and I once again I am not Entitled to any goodwill Because the service I had not carried out by a fiat agent, I told him agent has not been necessary since 2010, and he said the vehicle is out of Guarantee. He was unable to connect me to Amanda, who appears to be head of department and left a message for her to call me, I asked him to tell her to email me so I have their excuse in black and white, he says he can´t guarantee she will email me. I wonder why not.
Hi Janet, 
we really understand that you are disappointed, but we from the social media team have no access to your client data. That is why we can not really help here 😞 
Nether less we have asked internally and got the feedback, that the customer service received your email and that they are on it. 
We hope that they get back to you with a written answer soon. 
Have you called the customer service or have they called you? 
Best
Your Fiat Team


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Keeping at it may get you somewhere Jan. If not at least you've annoyed the mean gits. 

In their shoes I'd see it as a manufacturing defect. I'd put it right as a gesture of goodwill.

In fact I'm wondering if there wouldn't be a case for arguing that their guarantee is not really an issue here. It might be suggested that this is a fitness for purpose issue and that everybody buying a new vehicle is absolutely entitled to expect it not to suffer this kind of catastrophic failure at such a young age and low mileage. I also say that being a motorhome it would be practically impossible for it to be subjected to hard driving and that anyway the condition of the vehicle generally, along with the evidence of proper servicing, would confirm that it was extremely improbable that could have been subjected to any abuse that might have contributed to this mechanical failure. 

In your shoes I'd run that past a UK consumer rights solicitor just to see what they say.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

This "After this initial six-month period, you will have to prove that any faults are not down to misuse of the product or general wear and tear. This might require you to obtain an expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range. Factors such as the price, the specification/model of the goods, the length of time you've had the goods and the length of time which they should last will all be considerations.

If all else fails, you have six years from when you bought the faulty goods to take a claim to the small claims court and reclaim the cost of repair of the product."

Comes from here: https://www.inbrief.co.uk/consumer-law/warranties/

I'd say your engine should have lasted longer than it did. I'd say the warranty Fiat gives doesn't limit their liability and that they may be liable in your case. Surely any court would hold that a properly cared for engine should last longer and for more miles than yours did, especially given that it's in a motorhome where it couldn't be subjected to abuse.

I wouldn't waste a lot of time on it, but I'd take some advice and give it a go. It might be worth joining Which and using their legal advice service. They do get results.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

You did buy it in the UK didn't you?

Make sure the garage don't dump the old bits if you are considering this. It will need some expert examination.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

"What if my warranty has run out?
If a warranty in relation to goods you have bought has run out, this will have no effect on your statutory rights under CRA 2015, meaning a retailer cannot refuse to provide you with a repair simply because the warranty has expired."


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Me
Thanks for contacting me on messenger. I called them this morning and reported it to you on the fiat page.
After complaining bitterly to a male English speaker who's name I could not understand, he left a message for Amanda, I asked him to tell her to send the explanation on an email to me, so far I have not heard from her.

Fiat
Thanks for clarifying! Please let us know if you don't hear back from them by the end of the week or Monday. We can then ask again for you.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> "What if my warranty has run out?
> If a warranty in relation to goods you have bought has run out, this will have no effect on your statutory rights under CRA 2015, meaning a retailer cannot refuse to provide you with a repair simply because the warranty has expired."


As its been registered in Germany Alan I don´t think the UK can help and here I don´t believe they have such a thing as consumer rights, everything seems to point towards the manufacturer.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Keep at it Jan!

I feel your pain. I had problems with damp in a previous MH which had been faithfully and regularly serviced, hab and cab. When I came to have the work done in Barcelona it couldn't be done under warranty as there was no record of the services on the TEC computer.

That was when I discovered they were supposed to be. I presented all the previous paperwork to prove the services had been done at the right time and appealed to head office. It didn't make any difference.

You live and learn.

I do hope your situation has a happier outcome.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't think where it's registered counts Jan.

I think the applicable law will be where you bought it. Don't take my word for it. I imagine a phone call to citizens advice, a solicitor or Which would clarify. 

But if you bought it in the UK then your remedy, if any, lies in the UK. I'd say.

Admittedly it's quite a slim hope and may not be worth bothering about anyway.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

"Contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 03454 04 05 06 if you need more help - a trained adviser can give you advice over the phone. You can also use an online form. "

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...purchase/claim-using-a-warranty-or-guarantee/


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Its not worrying me anymore, but if I can get a bit back I won't say no.:grin2:

Just received an email telling me its ready to pick up and the bill isn´t quite as high.

I've also had 4 All year tyres put on and the whole bill comes to 13,718.77€


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Wow. Use it and enjoy it.

Good luck.


----------



## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Tell them its all over all the motorhome forums and everyone refuses to buy another fiat motorhome until they cough up!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

erneboy said:


> Wow. Use it and enjoy it.
> 
> Good luck.


At least it's not more than quoted Alan,


----------



## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well it’s all relative 

To what something is worth to the individual paying

The memories , the hopes for the future

I’ve never endowed our motorhome with such importance or memories 

But many things I have that maybe others maybe wouldn’t 

So if that MH is worth it to you

There’s nothing more to say 

Except may it bring you joy Jan

Sandra


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

I'm delighted to hear that you're mobile again Jan.

Once it's paid and you've a few more miles under your belt, the pain of the cost will start to disappear.

Get out there with Motley and enjoy yourselves.
.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

All year tyres were put on just in time, its snowing just a few kilometres away where its a bit higher, Jürgen usually takes 45 mins to get home from work, roads were closed because cars were stuck and he had to come a long way home which took him 3 hours. Roads unprepared, can you believe that in this day and age, with internet weather forecasting anyone can check the weather.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Sadly, one of the most likely effects of climate change is sudden cold, or hot, or wet or anything else type spells.

The UK has seen unprecedented flooding over the last few years, yes flooding has always occurred and no, an individual flood has many causes such as building on flood plains, putting rivers into constrained culverts under cities and so on, so it cannot be said to be due to climate change.

BUT the number and severity of such events as the bush fires in Australia, or Spain, or the West coast of the USA and sudden cold snaps as well as really hot summers may well be the ongoing effect of climate change.

But little if anything is being done to minimise such events because " if we do it and XYZ country does not, it's a waste of time" is a tale often heard.

There is no easy answer but something has GOT to be done, or we have to accept an increased frequency and severity of atypical weather patterns....

Snow is just one of these, but of course historically snow before Christmas was quite common, it's because the weather is milder that it seems so out of place.

Germany of course, requires suitable tyres for winter driving, the UK does not, neither does France presumably because it has not been considered necessary...... yet.....


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Another little setback, I tried doing a bank transfer and a red sign came up to say this amount was above the domestic amount I am allowed to transfer, so I have to get in touch with my sprech partner at the bank to get it done, banks closed until 3pm. I tried doing 9,000.00€ but it said the same and I don´t know what the limit is so have to wait until after 3pm.
Can´t pick it up until the money is in their account, I don´t know how long that takes from when I do it.
The lady next door can´t take me for a few days because she´s had an operation on her gums so mustn´t go out in the cold air.

Apparently the bill is the guarantee.


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Whilst irritating, these things are often done to protect people (and banks).

When I bought my current van I telephoned the bank in advance with my intentions.

I told them the date I intended to move the money, and they gave me a timed slot to move it. It all went as intended, thankfully.
.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I could use my money exchanger and if its too much hassle thats what I will do.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Dave


As I understand the German Law it requires winter tyres when there are snow and ice conditions, not all the time.


Of course it is sensible to fit them in anticipation, but not illegal to not have them in the dry.


I keep them all year.



Geoff


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Dave
> 
> As I understand the German Law it requires winter tyres when there are snow and ice conditions, not all the time.
> 
> ...


But if you get caught out with the weather as I guess some did yesterday, and you have an accident or get stuck in the snow without winter or all year tyres your for it, a good few € fine and not sure if you might even earn a point or two on the licence.

I've paid with other means now as the bank only allows me 3,000€ a time.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Sounds like one of these 'What else can go wrong?' days.


----------



## HurricaneSmith (Jul 13, 2007)

Funnily enough I asked a visiting German walker that very question this week.

She told me that it is the Law to change to winter tyres from the start of November until mid April regardless of the weather conditions.

She used to run a police station in Southern Germany, so what does she know? 😂


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

The garages are always very busy during October, they have hundreds of tyres to change from summer to winter, the tyres are stored at the garages and then in April busy again changing back to summer tyres. Nice little earner for garages who have storage space.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

On the subject of changing summer to winter tyres on a MH, my view is that for average MH use of say 5,000 miles a year and the recommended calendar life of a tyre being 5-6 years it seems uneconomic to own 2 sets of tyres as one would be buying 2 new sets before either had worn out.


I have calculated that it is cheaper to run winter tyres all year, so getting 25-30,000 miles out of them and only buying one replacement set.


Against that winter tyres may reduce MPG slightly and be not so efficient for braking in warm weather, but do we drive MHs like rally cars?


The small additional cost in fuel will be well offset by the reduced cost of replacement compared with 2 sets of tyres.


Just my take on tyres for MH use.


Geoff


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> On the subject of changing summer to winter tyres on a MH, my view is that for average MH use of say 5,000 miles a year and the recommended calendar life of a tyre being 5-6 years it seems uneconomic to own 2 sets of tyres as one would be buying 2 new sets before either had worn out.
> I have calculated that it is cheaper to run winter tyres all year, so getting 25-30,000 miles out of them and only buying one replacement set.
> Against that winter tyres may reduce MPG slightly and be not so efficient for braking in warm weather, but do we drive MHs like rally cars?
> The small additional cost in fuel will be well offset by the reduced cost of replacement compared with 2 sets of tyres.
> ...


The Police cars in our area have all weather tyres so if they are good enough for them they´re good enough for me and thats what we I have on car and now the Navajo:laugh: Neither are driven at excessive speeds, not even the car anymore :smile2: My speeding days are over, costs too much when your caught. (pretty tough using the singular)


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

*I do hope this will be my last report*

It´s here. I have parked it as close to the hedge as I dare without a bit of guidance, next time it will be better and the next better still. Right next to the hedge there is only the drivers doo that is acceptable for potential feeves [biggrin]
I do hope the batteries will be alright, it needed a jump start from their thing and he said if possible plug it into the mains to recharge, but thats not possible, so I drove home the long way, through the country a bit and now the vehicle battery is in the green 12.4 but the hab battery in the yellow, I hope they will charge up, they were new last year.



I can see it from the front door


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Obviously Jan it would be handy to run a lead out now and again to keep the batteries in top condition.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Obviously Jan it would be handy to run a lead out now and again to keep the batteries in top condition.
> 
> Ray.


 Bit far away from the house for that Ray, but if I get a place to store it across the road where there are all sorts of transport firms, hopefully there will be somewhere to plug it in when not in use.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Jean has the same problem and I'm sure you read about her situation. I don't know the layout but maybe one day a fortnight the van could be parked closer and a lead run out. Now you know why I always have 250m available.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Jean has the same problem and I'm sure you read about her situation. I don't know the layout but maybe one day a fortnight the van could be parked closer and a lead run out. Now you know why I always have 250m available.
> 
> Ray.


Well I´m not driving all that way just because you have a long lead. :laugh: I´ll find someway no doubt.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

I think we should have a Ray to store in the garage Jan!!

Regarding the hedge, I find it easier to reverse into position cos you can see your whole side in the mirror and also have your reversing camera. Tho I see you've some kind of bin there - but you could still use the space down to the road then move forward to the bin.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Sis in Law in UK just had her car battery die and went out and bought a new one. As she only does 3 miles a week to the shops it was inevitable and what she really needed was a battery charger. But you just can't explain at times.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

jiwawa said:


> I think we should have a Ray to store in the garage Jan!!
> 
> Regarding the hedge, I find it easier to reverse into position cos you can see your whole side in the mirror and also have your reversing camera. Tho I see you've some kind of bin there - but you could still use the space down to the road then move forward to the bin.


I did reverse in Jean, went further back and drove forward, there are the bins in front and a tree overhanging behind. I'll get better at it.😄


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Sis in Law in UK just had her car battery die and went out and bought a new one. As she only does 3 miles a week to the shops it was inevitable and what she really needed was a battery charger. But you just can't explain at times.
> 
> Ray.


At home we have a separate battery charger as well as facility to plug in the mains, but as I'm not at home etc.etc.😟


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

You are amazing!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> You are amazing!


Good morning Pat, why am I amazing ?


----------



## patp (Apr 30, 2007)

Good Morning Jan!

I am just in awe of how you are coping without Hans. I know you are going to say that underneath it all you are not coping but you are doing a pretty good damn job on the outside


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

patp said:


> Good Morning Jan!
> 
> I am just in awe of how you are coping without Hans. I know you are going to say that underneath it all you are not coping but you are doing a pretty good damn job on the outside


Driving the van has always been my job Pat, it's the maintenance & alterations Hans was in charge of. I still have to get the hang of filling with gas and diesel, water filling is easy, the loo mustn't get to heavy before it's emptied. I was also more knowledgeable about the Sargent as that's on the level of a computer, would have been different if it had knobs to turn.
All the rest is still difficult.


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

Jan I know you have had to shell out a lot to repair the van but maybe a solar panel would take care of the batteries in the future . We had one fitted when we bought the knaus and it's working well keeping our batteries fully charged.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

greygit said:


> Jan I know you have had to shell out a lot to repair the van but maybe a solar panel would take care of the batteries in the future . We had one fitted when we bought the knaus and it's working well keeping our batteries fully charged.


It´s got one Gitty, its been on the van since new.


----------



## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

JanHank said:


> It´s got one Gitty, its been on the van since new.


In that case it could be it needs attention as ours didn't work well to start with and had to go back to be adjusted. Is it one that charges all the batteries?


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

greygit said:


> In that case it could be it needs attention as ours didn't work well to start with and had to go back to be adjusted. Is it one that charges all the batteries?


So is this one dearest, but they disconnected everything and didn´t think to put them on charge now and then to keep them topped up. I will go for a run in a while and hope it does the trick, if not I will complain to them because the 2 hab batteries were new last year and this is neglect on their behalf I would think, but I´ll cross that bridge if the engine doesn´t recharge them today.


----------



## Penquin (Oct 15, 2007)

Recharging from a very low voltage would take a massive drive as the system is not brilliant due to the way the alternator functions, recharging by using a mains EHU would be much quicker if available...


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Penquin said:


> Recharging from a very low voltage would take a massive drive as the system is not brilliant due to the way the alternator functions, recharging by using a mains EHU would be much quicker if available...


You just caught me Dave, I am on my way out for the morning and if its not charged by the time we get back it can be put onto the EHU for the day tomorrow.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

Destination St. Goarshausen on the Rhein :grin2:


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I was very tired, drove 132 km.V battery 12.5v hab batteries still* in the yellow 11v.
V battery had lost power this morning since yesterday, it was also in the yellow, but back up in the green again now.

If it´s no different after its been on EHU for a day I will complain to the garage.
It was a lovely trip, weather could hardly have been better.
The Navi decided to bring me home a different way and there was almost a disaster, twice,
the first time she told me to turn sharp left, which would have been OK had there not been a buddy great bus coming from the right which was also a sharp bend, over my side of the white line by at least a meter, I had to back up to let him round, luckily nothing behind me.
The second time was in a village, as I was going round the bend another buddy great bus was coming the other way, I stopped, he continued until he couldn´t go any further or he would have taken the front off the van, there were half a dozen cars behind me and a very high curb on the right so I couldn´t mount it, I crept forward but the mirror started to catch on one of the bus windows, I stopped, wound the window down (this is the passenger side don´t forget) I couldn´t pull the mirror in, the bus driver got out and told me to drive forward as far as possible, then he saw why I couldn´t and pulled the mirror in, blast I was worried, I crept as slowly as possible until he was able to get past, my wheels were*almost*rubbing the curb, again he was my side of the white line. Anyway alls well that ends well, except for the batteries. Will get something arranged about them.

Canine news was studied.
A lovely white soft friendly GSD spoke to us.
A memorial of some sort
2 Swans who hissed at us and then one showed off.


----------



## jiwawa (Jun 22, 2007)

Well done you Jan! I bet you feel good having got out on such a beautiful day, and having successfully weathered the contretemps with the buddy buses!

One step at a time - but you've done quite a walk!


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

The batteries still need bringing up, I have emailed the garage, but it really is a pain in the bum to take it back so I will try charging them here.
I have just backed the van down to the front gate, people can walk past easily so the neighbour says it will be alright :grin2: hope he's right.
I've plugged in the EHU but need a domestic extension cable as its a bit short, there are more cables in the van, but it´s too dark to look now, when Jürgen gets home he will have an extension cable, but I don´t know where it is.
*My email to them*
When I picked up the Navajo on Monday, you will remember that it had to be started. Your son Daniel told me to let you know if it didn´t start the next day.
Although it started on Tuesday after a 50 km journey, the voltage had dropped from a little over 12 V to below 12 V.
Yesterday after 132 km, the vehicle battery was over 12 V and the leisure batteries over 11 V tested this morning and they had lost power again overnight, although no power was consumed.
Can you put these 3 batteries back into operation at no additional cost? The leisure batteries are not very old, one from 20.03.18 and the other from 06.07.18 
The vehicle battery has always been found to be good when tested and there has never been any problems with it until now. Or is there another solution?
The electric mirrors don't work either.
I assumed that I would get a fully functional motorhome back at this high price.
Please give me a short feedback on further processes.
With Kind Regards

*Their reply *
the batteries that you replaced in 2018 must empty themselves for some reason.
These batteries should also have a guarantee.
We can check if there is an electricity consumer. The batteries cannot discharge by themselves.
We can make an appointment where we try to determine a source of the error.
If we do not find the fault, we would bring the motorhome to our partner service stationauskennen, who are familiar with the structures of the various brands of campers and their superstructures behind the cab
In the course of this, we can also check why the exterior mirrors do not work. Didn't the mirrors work before?


----------



## eurajohn (May 9, 2005)

Reading your voltage figures above, I think there must be a discrepancy, if the vehicle battery was below 12 volts there would not be enough power for you to start the engine.
If using the control panel for your readings it possibly needs recalibrating, better to use a multimeter on the battery terminal for a true reading.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

eurajohn said:


> Reading your voltage figures above, I think there must be a discrepancy, if the vehicle battery was below 12 volts there would not be enough power for you to start the engine.
> If using the control panel for your readings it possibly needs recalibrating, better to use a multimeter on the battery terminal for a true reading.


Just checked the voltage. While still connected on EHU Veh. 14.6v L 12.4v disconnected both read 12.3v but the step struggled to come out and didn´t fully drop down.


----------



## erneboy (Feb 8, 2007)

Once you disconnect the charger you will need to wait half an hour or so to get a true reading. The batteries need to be at rest.

As John says a mulitmeter will be accurate, onboard info is often questionable.


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

I've had the reluctant step issue, it was related to low charge level in the leisure batteries on my AT. 
If you have two, one low or faulty battery can drag the second one down.

Terry


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have great hope that all the batteries will be OK. the van can stay on charge until Saturday morning which will be a total of 2 1/2 days. After that I will move it because the grass lane I am parked on has gates into the cemetary where there could be a few people wanting to go this weekend, although they have two other entrances to choose from.
I checked the water levels on the leisures (they are transparent so easy to see without taking them out) and they are both full. The sun has also been out all morning so a little help there as well.

Terry, I miss your cartoons :frown2:


----------



## dghr272 (Jun 14, 2012)

Just for you.......


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I´m not getting email notification again so it was a long time before I saw this, been busy elsewhere.:laugh:


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

I have had to unplug the leclic for 2 hours this morning to allow the lady next door to get out of her gate and get in a car that takes her to some therapy, she is unable to walk far and the van was stopping a car getting to her gate.
After just over an hour I checked the level and they both read 12.6v so with another 24 hours I hope they will be OK.
The neighbour is back so I will drive back and reconnect.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes thats better Jan. 12.6 at 'rest' is OK as there will always be some small parasitic loads taking power. Alarm, Radio, fridge, engine computers, etc.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

raynipper said:


> Yes thats better Jan. 12.6 at 'rest' is OK as there will always be some small parasitic loads taking power. Alarm, Radio, fridge, engine computers, etc.
> 
> Ray.


I don´t have an alarm, don´t use the radio the leisure is switch orf so no USB plug lights so that narrows it down a bit.

I hope they will hold the charges overnight. Its now plugged in again for 24 hours I hope.


----------



## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

raynipper said:


> Yes thats better Jan. 12.6 at 'rest' is OK as there will always be some small parasitic loads taking power. Alarm, Radio, fridge, engine computers, etc.
> 
> Ray.


Wake up Ray, it was her leisure batteries which were down not her engine battery, from which most of those items are fed.


----------



## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I only read 'batteries' Geoff. Wasn't sure which. But all likely to have something dragging em down.

Ray.


----------



## JanHank (Mar 29, 2015)

nicholsong said:


> Wake up Ray, it was her leisure batteries which were down not her engine battery, from which most of those items are fed.


It was all 3 batteries Geoff vehicle and 2 leisure.


----------

