# How do I comply with the London Emission Zone



## tviall

I have a friend who has just realised that by living inside the London LEZ she will have to comply with the regs by the end of this year.

The confusion has come about because she thought that her Mercedes Sprinter 316 CDI was Euro 4 but we now think that it's a Euro 3 engine.

She doesn't want to sell the van or the house (ie move outside the area) so is planning on fitting whatever is required to make her van compliant. One quote is over £4,750k plus VAT.

Has anyone had their van converted to comply with the LEZ? What did you have done and how much did it costs?

Grateful for any help?

Tony


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## Vennwood

I would think that many people would be interested in this post as it will affect 000's of us by the end of this year.

I didn't think there was anyone that could "upgrade the emissions" so was resigned to the fact that we would just have to avoid London.

Of course its not only the LEZ in London, as Germany has introduced LEZ's around several of its cities and these steps are certain to expand


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## locovan

When someone lives in London that is not an option they have to go into the Zone.

The conversion kits are done by the Base manufacturer so ask Mercedes but Fiat told us to dump the engine--ye right!!!

The answers are 
Replace your vehicle 
Use a newer vehicle which meets the LEZ emissions standards.

Fit abatement equipment 
It may be possible to fit pollution abatement equipment. All modifications will need to be certified by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) or an equivalent authorised body if your vehicle is registered outside of Great Britain for more information visit the TfL website.

Re-engine your vehicle 
You may choose to replace the engine in your vehicle with a more recent model. If you re-engine your vehicle you need to register with Transport for London.

BUT is this the best idea------*Convert to gas *You may choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas using an approved conversion. For GB operators, pure gas conversions should be registered with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and must be certified by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA).

It should be noted that vehicles with conversion to other fuels or that run on bio diesel are not deemed to meet the required LEZ emissions standards.


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## dragabed

*how do i comply with the london emissions*

can any one clarrify the part about running on bio diesel or converting to bio who do you have to inform or register with because surely this would be the cheapest and best rout to go down especially if this is eurpean wide


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## locovan

Im reading through lots of sites and I dont think bio fuel is complient

it does say It should be noted that vehicles with conversion to other fuels or that run on bio diesel are not deemed to meet the required LEZ emissions standards.
Anyway you register with the DVLA or VOSA


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## Stanner

If it's a diesel I don't think it could be converted to run just on gas.

And so far as I know any petrol engine of any size regardless of the amount of muck it pumps out is compliant so would not need to be converted to gas anyway.

I think the usual way to make a vehicle compliant is to fit a particulate filter.

But have you tried the compliance checker to see what that says?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17700.aspx#tkt-tab-panel-3

My old 53 reg Ducato is compliant after 2012.

More advice on fuels etc. here
http://www.purefuels.co.uk/page9.htm


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## ramblingon

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

Don't know how old or out of date this is but it has explained a lot to me.


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## richardjames

Have a look here >>>conversion<<<


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## TickTok

tviall said:


> I have a friend who has just realised that by living inside the London LEZ she will have to comply with the regs by the end of this year.
> 
> The confusion has come about because she thought that her Mercedes Sprinter 316 CDI was Euro 4 but we now think that it's a Euro 3 engine.
> 
> She doesn't want to sell the van or the house (ie move outside the area) so is planning on fitting whatever is required to make her van compliant. One quote is over £4,750k plus VAT.
> 
> Has anyone had their van converted to comply with the LEZ? What did you have done and how much did it costs?
> 
> Grateful for any help?
> 
> Tony


Hi, Have a look here https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb/lezComplianceProvideVRM.faces?referrer=lez if you haven't already. If it fails look here http://www.google.co.uk/search?q="banks"&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs= :lol: :lol:


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## MrsW

Has anyone any idea what the score is with foreign registered vans? We move to France this summer and are still debating exactly what to do with our 03 van which is currently compliant but won't be under GB rules next year. What happens if it is foreign registered?


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## asprn

MrsW said:


> What happens if it is foreign registered?


Naff all. It's unenforceable owing to a current absence of national vehicle data-swap arrangements. There are no reciprocal enforcement arrangements in place either.

Dougie.


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## tonka

Stanner said:


> My old 53 reg Ducato is compliant after 2012.


Yes, if it's 3,500kg mgw or under..

BUT someone with the same vehicle and having, say a 3850kg mgw would be classed as non compliant... Or that's how i'm reading it from the website link ..

More confusion.. grr...


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## locovan

This was why I petitioned that motohome's should be exempt or we should have the German System enforced but it only got deferred and now it seems even more of a shambles :twisted:


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## kandsservices

You could possibly have an adblue system fitted the same as the trucks that go in to london every day of the week a friend of mine drives a truck for aliving and they have adblue on theres because they dont conform to lez.Idont know how it works never worked on trucks.


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## Penquin

locovan said:


> This was why I petitioned that motohome's should be exempt or we should have the German System enforced but it only got deferred and now it seems even more of a shambles :twisted:


Me too, I wrote to Dear Boris just after he was elected, evenutally (3 months) got a reply that he was thinking about it and no decision has been made, since then he seems to have gone deaf to requests.

Is it not about time that all of the camping organisations got up and said something?

The CC will have NO sites available apparently (mind is that anything new? :lol: ) as all are inside the LEZ.

We want to encourage tourists and visitors (not), :lol:

Maybe it's time for yet another mass write-in?

Dave :roll:


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## locovan

Its the poor residents of London as well I have several friends living in London and they will be Fined £200 every time they go to a rally one man can see the outside of the Zone at the bottom of his road.
All they will say they have had time to sort it :roll:


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## locovan

Ok Lets all email Boris
http://www.boris-johnson.com/contact/

I have put this message on facebook
All my camping friends please lets fight Boris email him your disgust at the Emissions fiasco as more and more M/Homes are not complying --check to see if yours does. Fines of £100 into London and £100 out is just not on so lets back the camping sites and Londoners that are in the Zone


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## TR5

Emailed to: [email protected]

Dear Boris

It is with great regret that I fear you have let down the motorhoming fraternity, with the LEZ regulations.

These vehicles are NOT in regular daily use, contribute very little to pollution, and yet owners are being either forced to give up, sell, replace, or otherwise avoid London altogether, or pay an exhorbitant fine for occasional use. Not an easy decision for those living within the zone, is it!

There are anomalies with the compliance and non-compliance vehicles. For example, a Fiat Ducato or Peugeot Boxer based motorhome 10 years old weighing 3.5 tonnes fully laiden weight is compliant, yet the same basic vehicle, same engine and power output such as mine, 4 years newer, with a fully laiden weight of just 3.7 tonnes is non-compliant as from 2012. How the hell does that work?

Yes, I could get my vehicle re-plated to a reduced max. weight of 3.5 tonnes, and then be compliant !!!!!

But why should I - same vehicle, will be carrying exactly the same contents and people. Come on Boris, sort this stupidity out - NOW!

At least I don't live in London, and have the choice of never visiting.

_Sent 3oth Jan 2011_


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## RedSonja

Yes let's all email Boris. it's a farce as our old van was compliant but our new one which is a year younger isn't. I will email when I get back from Ireland.


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## locovan

I have emailed


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## Vennwood

me too


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## Jezport

Me Too


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## antpurley

We live about 700 metres from the outer edge of the lez in one direction and about 1ooom in the other direction to a main route which although just in is exempt.I know where the cameras are and by some slight detours I will avoid them.
Our motorhome is euro 111 but because it weighs a little more than 3.500 kgs we must pay from 2012. 
We are not normally law breakers and if we get caught we will have to pay the fine but This is a totally unjust tax and being retrospective is also unfair.We could replace our MH but it has everything we want and we also know its been well looked after.Also why should we.
Anthony

p.s I have e-mailed too.


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## locovan

Please recheck as a lot of Younger than 2002 are finding themselves in it now so Check !!!

latest From boris
Our ref: -- TFL1484151/AS
Ms Mavis Nye
By email: 
02 February 2011
Dear Ms Nye,
RE: Low Emission Zone
Thank you for contacting the Mayor of London regarding the changes to the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) in 2012.
The aim of the LEZ is to improve air quality in London by deterring the most individually polluting vehicles from driving in the area. London has the worst air pollution in the UK and amongst the worst in Europe.
Unfortunately, there is currently no discount or exemption for motor caravans from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons as to why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme, for example through the fitting of abatement equipment that will significantly improve the vehicles air quality emissions. In addition, Transport for London (TfL) does not distinguish between vehicles on the basis of commercial or personal use, or on the basis of low mileage, as they still emit the same level of pollutants per kilometre travelled.
If your vehicle was registered any time before 1 January 2002, it won't meet the Euro 3 emissions standards without modification, so you'll need to take action if you want to drive within the LEZ from 3 January 2012 without paying a daily charge. To find out what your options are please visit our website http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17701.aspx.
If your vehicle was registered on or after 1 January 2002, it will meet the Euro 3 emissions standards and you can drive within the LEZ without taking any action.
The quickest way to check if your vehicle meets the current or new standards is to enter your registration plate into our vehicle checker https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb/lezComplianceProvideVRM.faces?referrer=lez.
A case study detailing information on the compliance status of a Fiat Ducato, as mentioned in your email, is also enclosed for your information.
Yours sincerely
Amanda Sharp
Transport for London

This an example I sent and the reply was

The Fiat Ducato motor caravan is a popular model and the residual value of the vehicle remains high.
The Gross Vehicle Weight of this vehicle is 3,500kg and the unladen weight is 1,580kg. This means that it will be affected by the Low Emission Zone from January 2012. It was first registered with the DVLA in 1992 before the current Euro standards were in place, and so the emissions from this vehicle are high due to its age. From January 2012, it will be required to meet the LEZ standard of Euro 3 for particulate matter. As the owner wishes to continue driving this motor caravan within Greater London, he will have to take some action.
The owner could replace the vehicle, but the vehicle is still valuable. The owner decides the easiest way to bring the vehicle up to the required emissions standard is to fit a filter to trap the PM emitted from the vehicle. After discussion with abatement equipment manufacturers, a full diesel particulate filter with fuel-borne catalyst was chosen as best suiting the vehicle's condition and duty cycle. The total cost of fitting the filter was about £2,500.
Only approved filters are accepted by TfL. There is a list of approved filters and suppliers available at tfl.gov.uk/lez. The owner of the vehicle spoke to several suppliers on this list before choosing the solution mentioned above. It is important to do this to ensure you get the best price and because not all filters are suited to all vehicles and operating conditions.
Once the filter was fitted, the owner needed to get a certificate to prove that the filter is working properly. The owner booked a test at the nearest VOSA test station, which she found through the VOSA website at http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/. After the vehicle was tested, the owner received a Low Emission Certificate (LEC). It took 10 working days for TfL to receive the certificate information from VOSA. The operator can now drive the motor caravan within the LEZ from 3 January 2012 without having to pay the daily charge.


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## TR5

Hi Mavis

Your response from Boris is exactly the same, word for word, as I have just received.

Now the confusion: The letter states that a vehicle registered after 1st Jan 2002 will comply with Euro 3, and so is ok to drive around London in 2012.
Their website, after entering my reg. mark, says it is not compliant from 2012.

So I have emailed back and asked why the confusion, and who is right.

I might even copy the letter, save it, and use it for appeal if I ever go into London from 2012 and receive a fine!


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## locovan

The Kent Mcc have found that goal post have changed and it has nothing to do with age but weight now so we have Several member's with 2003- 2006 M/Home that do not comply so something has changed so would everyone from 2002 enter their Reg in and see if they comply 
If people dont so many will be caught if they come to London Camp sites etc etc --can we do an experiment and everybody see if they comply

2003 upward please


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## TR5

Well, there is two threads running on this subject, and like Mavis, I have had a reply.
As Mavis has posted hers on the other thread, I'll post mine here.

Our ref: -- TFL1483449/AS

Mr Michael Field

By email: [email protected]

02 February 2011

Dear Mr Field,
RE: Low Emission Zone
Thank you for contacting the Mayor of London regarding the changes to the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) in 2012.
The aim of the LEZ is to improve air quality in London by deterring the most individually polluting vehicles from driving in the area. London has the worst air pollution in the UK and amongst the worst in Europe.
Unfortunately, there is currently no discount or exemption for motor caravans from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons as to why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme, for example through the fitting of abatement equipment that will significantly improve the vehicles air quality emissions. In addition, Transport for London (TfL) does not distinguish between vehicles on the basis of commercial or personal use, or on the basis of low mileage, as they still emit the same level of pollutants per kilometre travelled.
If your vehicle was registered any time before 1 January 2002, it won't meet the Euro 3 emissions standards without modification, so you'll need to take action if you want to drive within the LEZ from 3 January 2012 without paying a daily charge. To find out what your options are please visit our website http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17701.aspx.
If your vehicle was registered on or after 1 January 2002, it will meet the Euro 3 emissions standards and you can drive within the LEZ without taking any action.
The quickest way to check if your vehicle meets the current or new standards is to enter your registration plate into our vehicle checker https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb/lezComplianceProvideVRM.faces?referrer=lez.
A case study detailing information on the compliance status of a Fiat Ducato, as mentioned in your email, is also enclosed for your information.
Yours sincerely
Amanda Sharp
Transport for London

If I enter my reg. number into the site, even though my MH was first reg. late 2005, it states that I am not compliant from 2012.

there is no mention in this reply about plated weights, so i might print off this letter and keep it safe, just in case I ever venture in to London.  

mods note - two threads now merged....


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## iconnor

2003 2.8turbo diesel FIAT, the site says I don't comply (3850kg)


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## bognormike

Just to note here that the add-ons to the old thread that Mavis had resurrected (!) have been merged into this thread, to keep it all in one place.

As it is an important subject I've also "stickied" it :idea:


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## bognormike

and my 'van won't be compliant from Jan '12 either. It's just not a viable cost effective proposition to do any of the conversions, I'll just keep out of London. :evil:


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## Jezport

So the mayors dept think that we should spend between £2500 and £6000 on modifying our vehicles.

I say "Up yours London" I will spend my money elswhere.


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## locovan

bognormike said:


> Just to note here that the add-ons to the old thread that Mavis had resurrected (!) have been merged into this thread, to keep it all in one place.
> 
> As it is an important subject I've also "stickied" it :idea:


Thanks just so long as we have everyone checking as people thought they were compliant now they are finding they are not as 2012 is getting nearer.
We knew the 2010 deadline meant those up to 2002 now its the younger M/Homes as well and we have so many Kent MCC Members living in the Zone


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## antpurley

locovan said:


> If people dont so many will be caught if they come to London Camp sites etc etc --can we do an experiment and everybody see if they comply
> 
> 2003 upward please


my MH is a march 2006 2.8 that weighs 3850 kgs.It will be non-compliant as from 2012.As I said earlier I live just a few hundred yards inside the zone so avoiding London is no option.


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## erneboy

Being from Northern Ireland and thus having an NI registration on my van the system does not recognise my registration, as I expected. It seems able to deal with North Korean registered vehicles but not those from a UK region. I am not surprised so I say sod London I can do without going there, Alan.


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## locovan

antpurley said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If people dont so many will be caught if they come to London Camp sites etc etc --can we do an experiment and everybody see if they comply
> 
> 2003 upward please
> 
> 
> 
> my MH is a march 2006 2.8 that weighs 3850 kgs.It will be non-compliant as from 2012.As I said earlier I live just a few hundred yards inside the zone so avoiding London is no option.
Click to expand...

http://www.ilovesponge.com/spongecars/diesel/diesel.htm

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx


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## nicholsong

I am in the same category as Mavis (Locovan) and others in that I live in the LEZ and have a vehicle which is listed on the VOSA computer (which I believe TfL use) at 3,850kg.

I currently run with full water, fuel and nil waste at 3,620kg.

My argument to the Mayor is similar to 'TR 5' (but he does not reside in the LEZ): If the vehicle is compliant with a Euro III engine after 3rd Jan 2012 if operated below 3,500kg why should the same engine be non-compliant if over 3,500kg?

The Mayor has moved on cancelling Ken Livingstone's Westward Extension of the Congestion Zone, so maybe he will move on this.

However, while London residents might have a strong case for modification of the rules, or at least some relief, such as a discount like the residents of the Congestion Zone, 

I feel that too much pleading by MH owners that live remotely will slightly muddy the waters for us residents, because whereas they are faced with a £200 bill for entry we are faced with a £200 bill for every day we move or a £3,00 conversion.

I am not against non-Londoners making their point but maybe we need to split on our approach. London MH owners of vehicles over 3,500kg may be able to make a case that their total contribution to emissions is 'de minimis' against the total cost for complying for a whole year.

Enough! I will now do a separate post on ways round the problem.

DON'T LET THE B****RDS GET YOU DOWN

Geoff


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## nicholsong

After my Post above re approach to the Mayor

I am interested in ways round this problem.

There seems to be the possibility of foreign/ N.I./ IoM registration.

I am not sure whether fitting the AbBlue system complies - any truck-technos know the answer?

I had thought of applying to re-register my vehicle's weight with VOSA everytime I come into the LEZ and vice-versa,
until the authorities got fed up with it.

I might put that solution to the Mayor's office. It could cause them an administrative nightmare of having to cancel loads of fines because their system had not caught up with VOSA processing of applications to change.

Any thoughts please?

Geoff


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## locovan

Geoff that is such a sensible question

My argument to the Mayor is similar to 'TR 5' (but he does not reside in the LEZ): If the vehicle is compliant with a Euro III engine after 3rd Jan 2012 if operated below 3,500kg why should the same engine be non-compliant if over 3,500kg?

I Exchanged my M/Home to the Autosleeper Clubman 2002

But because it was registered in 2003 it is compliant --same engine in built in 2002 though.
Im told its because of the weight but it still will be the same emissions !!! What has weight got to do with it???
Its Crazy


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## erneboy

Oh Mavis really, why would it make sense? The rules will have been written by bureaucrats, not much sense in a bunch of those.

Nicholsong I would not recommend trying to avoid it with an NI registration. They can easily trace them when they want to annoy you, Alan.


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## sallytrafic

Three or four years ago I knew from the then LEZ checker that my then van, a 2005 Euro III under 3500kg, would not comply with the LEZ from 2012 so has anything recently changed (apart from the TfL website being tarted up)?

It looks to me that the LEZ regulations have been* relaxed a bit * and my old van would now be compliant. Have I missed something?


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## locovan

sallytrafic said:


> Three or four years ago I knew from the then LEZ checker that my then van, a 2005 Euro III under 3500kg, would not comply with the LEZ from 2012 so has anything recently changed (apart from the TfL website being tarted up)?
> 
> It looks to me that the LEZ regulations have been* relaxed a bit * and my old van would now be compliant. Have I missed something?


Only that it seems to be in a right muddle as people that thought they were Ok and compliant arent.
Thats why Im trying to get everyone that are affected by London Travelling to recheck with the DVLA :wink:


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## sallytrafic

locovan said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Three or four years ago I knew from the then LEZ checker that my then van, a 2005 Euro III under 3500kg, would not comply with the LEZ from 2012 so has anything recently changed (apart from the TfL website being tarted up)?
> 
> It looks to me that the LEZ regulations have been* relaxed a bit * and my old van would now be compliant. Have I missed something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only that it seems to be in a right muddle as people that thought they were Ok and compliant arent.
> Thats why Im trying to get everyone that are affected by London Travelling to recheck with the DVLA :wink:
Click to expand...

How do you do that Mavis? My current van is not recognised by the LEZ checker


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## locovan

sallytrafic said:


> locovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Three or four years ago I knew from the then LEZ checker that my then van, a 2005 Euro III under 3500kg, would not comply with the LEZ from 2012 so has anything recently changed (apart from the TfL website being tarted up)?
> 
> It looks to me that the LEZ regulations have been* relaxed a bit * and my old van would now be compliant. Have I missed something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only that it seems to be in a right muddle as people that thought they were Ok and compliant arent.
> Thats why Im trying to get everyone that are affected by London Travelling to recheck with the DVLA :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do you do that Mavis? My current van is not recognised by the LEZ checker
Click to expand...

It wont concern your Currant M/Home thats why that will comply
you said your old one has changed!!!


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## sallytrafic

My points/questions were:

The rules seem to have been relaxed not tightened is that correct?


How do you check a van that the LEZ says doesn't exist?


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## locovan

sallytrafic said:


> My points/questions were:
> 
> The rules seem to have been relaxed not tightened is that correct?
> 
> How do you check a van that the LEZ says doesn't exist?


Check with the DVLA 
It is known that 2010 vehicles have been built to the Euro Standards so they Comply

They havent relaxed the rules they have got muddled somehow and thats what Im trying to prove.
We need a good case to take back to Boris so Im just asking if those people who's M/Homes up to 2006 are complying or not.
We have Camp sites in the Zone and we have people living in the Zone they are the ones I have always been trying to help.


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## JeanLuc

Concerning the apparent anomaly about vehicles with the same engine being compliant or not depending upon weight, I offer the following story.

Last year in Germany, we decided to get an umweltzone plakette. Ours is a 3.8 tonne MAM vehicle with a 2.7 litre Mercedes Euro III engine.
Upon visiting the first TÜV centre we came to, I was told I could have a red sticker. This did not make much sense to me as a Euro III is normally a yellow sticker. Language difficulties prevented me from either convincing the operator to change his mind or understanding the reason for the decision.

So, we decided not to bother and went on our way. A couple of days later, we stopped at a Mercedes Commercial dealer - I had been advised that there was a very knowledgable chap there. He checked everything on the MB system then told me that whilst the vehicle in standard 3.5 tonne Sprinter trim would have warranted a yellow sticker, because it had been rated at 3.8 tonnes for Hymer, technically it should be red.

Then he smiled and issued a yellow sticker because there was virtually no difference in weight anyway and I guess as foreigners, we were not going to make great use of it. €5 well spent in our case.

Apparently, increased weight does affect the level of particulate emissions for any given engine - it is working harder I suppose.

Philip (keeping away from London anyway)


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## locovan

JeanLuc said:


> Concerning the apparent anomaly about vehicles with the same engine being compliant or not depending upon weight, I offer the following story.
> 
> Last year in Germany, we decided to get an umweltzone plakette. Ours is a 3.8 tonne MAM vehicle with a 2.7 litre Mercedes Euro III engine.
> Upon visiting the first TÜV centre we came to, I was told I could have a red sticker. This did not make much sense to me as a Euro III is normally a yellow sticker. Language difficulties prevented me from either convincing the operator to change his mind or understanding the reason for the decision.
> 
> So, we decided not to bother and went on our way. A couple of days later, we stopped at a Mercedes Commercial dealer - I had been advised that there was a very knowledgable chap there. He checked everything on the MB system then told me that whilst the vehicle in standard 3.5 tonne Sprinter trim would have warranted a yellow sticker, because it had been rated at 3.8 tonnes for Hymer, technically it should be red.
> 
> Then he smiled and issued a yellow sticker because there was virtually no difference in weight anyway and I guess as foreigners, we were not going to make great use of it. €5 well spent in our case.
> 
> Apparently, increased weight does affect the level of particulate emissions for any given engine - it is working harder I suppose.
> 
> Philip (keeping away from London anyway)


Ahh now that makes sense thanks I will relay that back to the MCC Kent group


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## Penquin

Our 2003 Ducato based Kontiki is NOT compliant after January next year.....

3850 kg

Annoying to say the least.......


Dave


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## locovan

Penquin said:


> Our 2003 Ducato based Kontiki is NOT compliant after January next year.....
> 
> 3850 kg
> 
> Annoying to say the least.......
> 
> Dave


Well they are converting them but the price range is £3000-£6000
these are the prices quoted so far but you then only comply for a few years.
But that against £100 in and £100 out :wink: :wink: 
And My son paid £100 to park his car in the road in London so its all getting dearer.


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## Bob45

*LEZ*

My 2.7 cc Mercedes 3.8 ton Hymer will not be complianr after 2012 so what do you do:
Don't go to London
Stay at other sites just outside the zone

Must say i feel for those of you who live just inside the zone.

Bob


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## Old_Adventurer

Your original referenced thread is closed and has been amalgamated in the above.



A friend has a Fiat Ducato 2.8JTD powered Hymer (3400kg MGW) registered on 1/9/2001 and kept within the LEZ. In late 2007 he noted the forthcoming requirements and checked whether his vehicle was compliant. The answer was NO as it was registered prior to 1/1/2002. After a great deal of difficulty and several calls and emails to Fiat customer service he eventually secured a letter from Fiat stating that the vehicle was Euro3 compliant. He sent a copy of this letter to TFL with an application for a compliance certificate in November 2007. After repeated reminders he finally received a favourable response (dated 5th February 2008) in March 2008 and a check on the website showed the vehicle as compliant.



Last November he checked the TFL compliance website and was horrified to see that he was NON-COMPLIANT again. he rang TFL and was told to reapply - which he refused to do as they had been so difficult in 2007/8. He sent a formal complaint in December attaching a copy of their letter from 2008 and received a bald response- Non Compliant. He replied with a further complaint asking for an explanation and again got a non-reply that the vehicle was non compliant.



He then sent a copy of the correspondence to his local London Assembly Member who immediately wrote to his contact at TFL, strongly suggesting that they sort it out and to compensate my friend for the difficulty. Two weeks later he received a response confirming compliance and another week later a letter of apology stating that existing compliance data had not been properly transferred to a new service provider, together with a cheque for £30.



I wonder what would have happened if he had not chased it up and ignored his daily fines in 2012?



MORAL - If you have not already proved compliance then start early – Proving compliance could take a long time. And if you think you are compliant then CHECK IT AGAIN!



My friend tells me that if your vehicle has the engine that was used in early 2002 but was registered before 1/1/2002, the person to contact at Fiat to confirm that your particular vehicle is Euro 3 is T J Speechley - Homologation Executive at Fiat Group, 240 Bath Road, Slough SL1 4DX 01753 511431. You will need to give Chassis Number and Engine Code – My friend’s Compliant Engine Code is 8140.43S (on the Fiat plate under the bonnet). For Peugeot or Citroen owners I guess that you need to contact the Homologation Dept.



I hope that this (rather lengthy) reply may be helpful to all under 3500kg owners with registrations before 1/1/2002 but whose vehicles are actually Euro 3. This proof is starting to be essential for travelling in many European Cities as well as London. 



From my friend’s latest TFL LEZ Compliance Certificate it looks as if Euro 4 may be needed in London from 2019 onwards for under 3500kg as his Certification expires on 31/12/2018! But there is nothing on the TFL website about this.


----------



## TR5

*Don't spend your money yet - MAYBE some good news!*

Well, well, well.

After receiving my reply from Amanda Sharp form TfL, as seen earlier in this thread, I emailed back stating that her letter suggests my MH IS compliant, and the website number plate checker, suggests it isn't. I also stated that as the letter was from a representative of TfL, that I would print out her letter and keep it safe, as evidence that I have been instructed that I am compliant, by their staff, in the likely event of receiving a summons for driving within the LEZ in 2012.

Guess what. I received a personal phone call this morning from Amanda Sharp, wishing to discuss the anomalies. She took my reg. number, and I explained that my MH had air suspension on the rear from new, uprating it to 3.7 tonnes, whereas the exact same vehicle 3 years older, without air suspension is registered as 3.5 tonnes, and is compliant.

I also stated that there are many MH'ers in this position, where their MH's are just over the 3.5 tonnes and now non-compliant, and it was a stupid situation, especially for those just metres inside the zone.

She would not comment on others, or on the stupidity of the situation, but assured me she is looking into the situation, based on my MH, and would report back.

Now is the time to strike. If you are in the situation where you are non-compliant, bombard Boris with your complaints, nicely but firmly putting over the points raised.

Maybe we will get somewhere, fingers crossed.


----------



## nicholsong

On a previous Post I asked about the AdBlue system as a solution to the problem.

I now have the answer from the technical guy at a truck rental company.

AdBlue will not make a Euro III engine compliant with Euro IV particulate requirements.

So back to the drawing board !

Keep knocking at TfL door.

Geoff


----------



## TR5

Hi All

Well, I have had a reply back from Amanda, and they won't move.

I have asked for my original complaint to be passed on to Boris Johnson, and she has stated tha I need to write in again, explaining that I have already had a response from TfL, which I am not happy with, and for my correspondence to NOT be automatically passed on to TfL, but to be forwarded to Boris, for consideration.

She stated that TfL cannot change the situation, as the consultation period is over, and can only be "opened" again, from higher up the ladder.

Sorry if this gave anyone false hopes, but keep plugging!


----------



## nicholsong

TR 5 

Thanks for info re applying direct to Mayor.

Did Amanda suggest a route/address for that complaint?

Geoff


----------



## TR5

Hi Geoff

The route for contacting Boris Johnson is shown earlier on in this thread.
Your contact will be passed direct to TfL in the first instance, then you will need to use their reply to contact them again, stating that you have already been passed to TfL and are not satisfied with the response, and wish to take it higher.

The other option is to nominate a spokesperson, and contact national newspapers, to see if one will take up this story.

The LEZ appears to have nothing to do with emissions, but the weight of the vehicle - i.e. exactly the same mechanics on a MH 3.5t is compliant, but 3.51t isn't. This is discriminatory, in my opinion, and nothing to do with emissions.

Anyone wish to be the spokesperson?

I'm off in the MH now, so i'll look back in later, if I have a signal.

Michael (TR5)


----------



## locovan

*Re: Don't spend your money yet - MAYBE some good news!*



TR5 said:


> Well, well, well.
> 
> After receiving my reply from Amanda Sharp form TfL, as seen earlier in this thread, I emailed back stating that her letter suggests my MH IS compliant, and the website number plate checker, suggests it isn't. I also stated that as the letter was from a representative of TfL, that I would print out her letter and keep it safe, as evidence that I have been instructed that I am compliant, by their staff, in the likely event of receiving a summons for driving within the LEZ in 2012.
> 
> Guess what. I received a personal phone call this morning from Amanda Sharp, wishing to discuss the anomalies. She took my reg. number, and I explained that my MH had air suspension on the rear from new, uprating it to 3.7 tonnes, whereas the exact same vehicle 3 years older, without air suspension is registered as 3.5 tonnes, and is compliant.
> 
> I also stated that there are many MH'ers in this position, where their MH's are just over the 3.5 tonnes and now non-compliant, and it was a stupid situation, especially for those just metres inside the zone.
> 
> She would not comment on others, or on the stupidity of the situation, but assured me she is looking into the situation, based on my MH, and would report back.
> 
> Now is the time to strike. If you are in the situation where you are non-compliant, bombard Boris with your complaints, nicely but firmly putting over the points raised.
> 
> Maybe we will get somewhere, fingers crossed.


Im passing this all on to MCC and i suggest everyone passes it onto all the forum sites come on United you stand :lol: :lol:


----------



## locovan

Our friend in Bromley has just said on face book

04 February 10:01
Just had interesting call from a local company who were given our details they informed me that the unit developed for Motorhomes and horse boxes has yet to go on sale still in testing with TFL for aproval but it will be £1000 pounds cheaper he quoted £1500 +labour and vat

This is the M/Home that Tony talked about in the first comment that started this topic.

She is taking her M/Home for a Quote and will come back with all the info.


----------



## TR5

Amanda Sharp tried to tell me that vehicles which need a particulate filter can be converted within £1500.

I told her of some of the quotes stated by others, but she would not make further comment on the price she stated.


----------



## TR5

As this thread seems to have "died a death", I have sent an email to the Daily Mail, informing them that for many motorhomers, the LEZ is all about weight, and not emissions. 

Maybe they will bite, and look into this further, but if more people write in, they will understand that it is an important issue, and should be persued.

It's up to you now!


----------



## nicholsong

Tr5 

This thread has not died the death. Work is going on in the background.

I am trying to establish whether the rules have the backing of devolved legislation to differentiate on weight grounds, as opposed to purely particulates.

However, I feel that those of us resident within the LEZ are a special case in the same way as residents within the Congestion Zone, who are given a discount of 90%.

At present residents caught by the 2012 rules face a £3,000 modification or £200 a day to move a MH from their front door and then another £200 to come back.

I therefore propose to start an new thread for Residents of the LEZ who are caught by the new rules.

Geoff Nicholson


----------



## TR5

Hi Geoff

Thanks for that, I am glad someone is taking up the fight!

The LEZ does not really affect me as I am well outside of London, and have no intention in the forseeable future, of taking my MH inside the zone.

However, I do feel it is an injustice, especially to those who will have no option but to take some action, or pay up!

I also feel that it is discriminatory that two alike vehicles can be either compliant or non-compliant, just on weight alone, so I am supporting this injustice on principle.

If I can be of any further help, just let me know.

Michae (TR5)


----------



## locovan

Geoff Im with you and I have been trying to find out when weight came into it I will have an answer later I hope 
We are all at the moment Writing to London MP's

By the way its only £100 out and £100 in its hasnt gone up has it ??? :wink:


----------



## nicholsong

Michael

Thank you.

I think now it is a legal fight to prove that discrimination on weight is not legal.

I have already posted a new Topic for Residents of the LEZ, but if we are able to change the rules others may benefit.

Geoff


----------



## nicholsong

Mavis

I suspect weight came into it for administrative convenience, because they want to use the DVLA database to feed the LEZ computer, but I cannot be sure.

We should concentrate on requiring proof that their rules are legal - their cost not ours.

Re £200 I was working on the basis that if you go out to tour then you come back it is £200 total.

Let's keep talking. This is winable because it is an administrative anomaly.

Geoff


----------



## locovan

Oh Ok i understand xx

http://www.writetothem.com/

Right all those that live in London or camp in the sites affected Please put you Postcode in here and email a message to your Local MP's

Please do it :wink: :wink:


----------



## antpurley

Thanks for setting this up. Sent our letter as follows

Dear...

We are writing to you to bring to your attention to the LEZ and hope that you will address our issue with a matter of urgency.
We saved hard and bought a motorhome so that we and our children could enjoy time together as a family and see not only the lovely sites of this country but also to venture further a field.

We live few hundred yards from inside the lez, this means every time we move from our drive, we will have to pay £100 in and out, Even if we are not travelling into London which in two years we have never done.

Not only is the law retrospective, it is not measured on emissions as the public are led to believe, as for example the same motorhome as ours, registered in Oct 06, with the same emissions, engine etc will not have to pay, where as ours was registered in March 2006 is, everything the same so why are we being penalised.

Please don't advise us to get it converted, I am a nurse and my husband a postman and it took years for us to save for this and simply do not have the £3k+ to convert.

This is simple discrimination bureaucracy that makes no sense what's so ever.
We will be interested in your views and what action you will take.



Yours sincerely,

mandy.. etc


We won't hold our breath but maybe something will happen it will be a great shame to sell but we will make that decision later this year.


----------



## Hydrocell

One of easiest tings to do is to have a hydrogen cell fitted, one will reduce your emissions by up to 85% and save you money on fuel around 20 to 30% and it gives you more power so less changing down the gears. 

Ray


----------



## Stanner

Hydrocell said:


> One of easiest tings to do is to have a hydrogen cell fitted, one will reduce your emissions by up to 85% and save you money on fuel around 20 to 30% and it gives you more power so less changing down the gears.
> 
> Ray


Have TFL confirmed that fitting one will allow them to issue an exemption?


----------



## Hydrocell

Having a hydrogen cell fitted is the same as having a gas conversation you have to follow the same procedure first you need to have the exust emissions tested for example by brother in-law John had his tested before is MOT the particulates where 2.8 in volume which was just under the legal limit after the Hydrogen cell was fitted he went back for another emissions test which now showed it was 0.84 the mechanic was astonished that was last year this year he has dune around 3500 mile to Italy and back getting around 35 mile per gallon he has just had is new MOT and the mechanic could not get a reading it was show 0.00 he played around with the machine but it did not make any difference until John pulled the fuse out of the Hydrogen sell to get a reading
The risen for the steady reduction is that Hydrogen burns brighter than gas diesel and petrol which over time will clean your engine of carbon and as must mechanics will tell you carbon build up is one of the most common causes of engine failure must engines only burns a small amount of the fuel used the rest comes out of the tail pipe which in turn creates the emissions
So ounce you have any adaptation you will need to have a before and after test and submit the evidence to the DVLA and perhaps the London Mayors Office.

Regards
Ray


----------



## Stanner

Hydrocell said:


> Having a hydrogen cell fitted is the same as having a gas conversation you have to follow the same procedure first you need to have the exust emissions tested for example by brother in-law John had his tested before is MOT the particulates where 2.8 in volume which was just under the legal limit after the Hydrogen cell was fitted he went back for another emissions test which now showed it was 0.84 the mechanic was astonished that was last year this year he has dune around 3500 mile to Italy and back getting around 35 mile per gallon he has just had is new MOT and the mechanic could not get a reading it was show 0.00 he played around with the machine but it did not make any difference until John pulled the fuse out of the Hydrogen sell to get a reading
> The risen for the steady reduction is that Hydrogen burns brighter than gas diesel and petrol which over time will clean your engine of carbon and as must mechanics will tell you carbon build up is one of the most common causes of engine failure must engines only burns a small amount of the fuel used the rest comes out of the tail pipe which in turn creates the emissions
> So ounce you have any adaptation you will need to have a before and after test and submit the evidence to the DVLA and perhaps the London Mayors Office.
> 
> Regards
> Ray


That doesn't answer the question..........

Which was.



> Have TFL confirmed that fitting one will allow them to issue an exemption?


----------



## locovan

I have found this but no prices I bet its not cheap

Sustainability targets
• Reduce absolute CO2e emissions by 25% by 2010 • Reduce normalised transport related CO2e emissions by 20% by 2010 • Reduce normalised building related CO2e emissions by 10% by 2010 • Reduce normalised quantity of solid waste sent to landfill by 25% • Reduce fresh water consumption by 5% • A carbon neutral Letters business in Scotland by 2012 • Zero tailpipe emissions in Inner London (LEZ) by 2012 • Reduce absolute CO2e emissions by 50% by 2015 (CN)

Source: Climate Change Solutions

http://www.eco-business.com/news/2010/dec/29/royal-mail-greening-guru-coming-singapore/

http://www.climate-change-solutions.co.uk/


----------



## TR5

Below is a letter received from my MP, after challenging regarding the LEZ, and motorhome use.

My reply is here....

February 18, 2011

Richard Benyon MP
6 Cheap Street
Newbury
RG14 5DD

Dear Mr Benyon

Your Ref: SP17046

I am in receipt of your letter of 14th February 2011, in reply to my correspondence with you, and I am a little disappointed, although not surprised by the non-commital response.

I am fully aware of the reasons for the introduction of the LEZ, and the need to reduce the emissions produced by vehicles, especially in the heavily congested London area.

However, in reply to your points, writing to Mr Boris Johnson is pointless, as any correspondence to him regarding the LEZ is automatically passed to TfL. In response, TfL just state a standard response, and when challenged say the consultation period is over – end of story.

My point of writing is to make known the plight of motor home owners, who vehicles are used for ‘high days and holidays’, and are not everyday large vans trundling around London, adding to the pollution problems on a regular basis. Most will be based on or near the perimeter of the LEZ, will travel AWAY from central London, and as already stated, be used on an infrequent basis, but nevertheless penalised heavily for so doing.

The anomaly of being registered as 3.5 ton and being compliant, or registered as being 3.6 ton, and thereby being non-compliant is discriminatory, when the running gear, engine, base vehicle, and emissions are exactly the same. Expecting these owners with vehicles at just over 3.5t to pay anything up to £6000 (depending on make of vehicle) to fit particulate filters to drive for 1 or 2 miles to outside the zone, or be fined £200 every time they do so, is totally wrong.

As previously stated, these are infrequent vehicles, unlikely to drive towards central London, and yet are expected to pay the same costs as a daily van driver, whose emissions for one day’s route would probably exceed a full year’s emissions within the zone of a motor home owner residing in the suburbs.

It’s a poor show if you are not in a position to represent members of your constituency on this important point, even if I am only affected if I wished to enter the zone.


----------



## Auldgadgey

We are running a 2001 Hymer B544 with Fiat 2.8 JTD and I have followed this thread with interest. We have family in London and it would be nice to be able to visit them or even just stop over at either of the CC sites, so while it wasn't vital that I could prove compliance it would be convenient.
A search of Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato) appeared to show that most engines had been Euro III compliant for sometime, so I contacted Mr Tim Speechley at Fiat. He was very helpful even holding on while I wandered out to the van to search for the Fiat plate. It turns out that my JTD engine is compliant, if it had been a TDI it would not have been. To identify the engine type look at the engine number on the plate if it ends in "S" it is a JTD. 
I now await receipt of a letter to that effect from Mr Speechley which I intend to submit to Tfl as evidence of compliance.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers
Tony


----------



## Zebedee

TR5 said:


> Below is a letter received from my MP, after challenging regarding the LEZ, and motorhome use.


If he was getting a quarter of his inflated salary (_plus expenses - but only legitimate and essential ones of course_!! 8O ) he would still be overpaid IMHO, judging from that response! 

A wonderful example of taking a whole page to completely ignore the point of the question. :roll: It looks to me suspiciously like a _very _slightly edited stock reply!

Bet you will vote for him next time, eh! 8O

Dave


----------



## safariboy

locovan said:


> When someone lives in London that is not an option they have to go into the Zone.
> 
> The conversion kits are done by the Base manufacturer so ask Mercedes but Fiat told us to dump the engine--ye right!!!
> 
> The answers are
> Replace your vehicle
> Use a newer vehicle which meets the LEZ emissions standards.
> 
> Fit abatement equipment
> It may be possible to fit pollution abatement equipment. All modifications will need to be certified by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) or an equivalent authorised body if your vehicle is registered outside of Great Britain for more information visit the TfL website.
> 
> Re-engine your vehicle
> You may choose to replace the engine in your vehicle with a more recent model. If you re-engine your vehicle you need to register with Transport for London.
> 
> BUT is this the best idea------*Convert to gas *You may choose to convert your vehicle to run on pure gas using an approved conversion. For GB operators, pure gas conversions should be registered with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and must be certified by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA).
> 
> It should be noted that vehicles with conversion to other fuels or that run on bio diesel are not deemed to meet the required LEZ emissions standards.


The object of LEZ is to reduce particle and nitrogen oxide emissions. Bio fuels will not help. Bio fuels should overall (including growing the plant) have a lower carbon dioxide emission but that is not the problem LEZ is trying to solve.


----------



## ched999uk

I haven't read all this thread but I have a thought that may or may not help.

There is something called the Freedom of Information Act that allows the public to request information from a Government dept, council or public body and they must reply within 30 days! I am simplifying a bit.

Has anyone thought of requesting all meeting minutes that discussed the issue or all information relating to the decision on how they rate vehicles etc from the London Assembly. You could also request all info on vehicle registrations that do or dont comply from Tfl. 

As for different plates weight vehicles passing and failing surely IF the regulations relate to emmissions per mile a higher plated vehicle CAN carry more and thus create more emmissions than the lighter vehicle.

Any one know the fine for being overweight vs the Emissions fine?

Might be worth getting your vehicle down plated to avoid emissions. Dont know if that helps?


----------



## nicholsong

Tony (oldgadgey)

Regarding compliance/non-compliance, what is important is whether the Tfl system has your vehicle listed as compliant or not, as if they cameras catch you it is their system which will determine whether you have breached.

To check go to tfl.gov.uk and navigate to LEZ and you will be able to enter your reg. no. and it will tell you whether your vehicle is compliant and whether it will be after 3rd Jan2012 when the requirements change for vehicles over 3.5t.

My 2002 2.8jtd (Euro III engine) is currently compliant but becomes non-compliant in 2012 because the original dealer registered it at 3.8t (as per design) although it is currently plated at 3.5t. Presumably Tfl are using VOSA's database.

Several of us are fighting with Tfl about their right to classify two vehicles with the same engine according to the permitted weight.

Don't rely on manufacturers/dealers info except to get the database changed if you believe your Hymer has been wrongly listed as non-compliant

Hope this helps

Geoff


----------



## safariboy

If you are coming from a distance Horsley CCC site might be a possibility. It is outside LEZ I think and about 1 mile from the train station to London.
I have not been there and so cannot give a recommendation.


----------



## Auldgadgey

Geoff (nicholsong)
I've tried accessing the Tfl database and my vehicle doesn't exist on it!
I've spoken to one of their operatives and she couldn't find it either. However she did say that if I supplied proof of engine compliance on Fiat headed notepaper then it would be added to the database as a compliant vehicle.
I received the document from Mr Speechley of Fiat (very helpful chap) a day after I spoke to him and have got copies of all the necessary documents to send off to Tfl. I'll let you know if and when I get the all clear.

Cheers
Tony


----------



## nicholsong

Tony

If your vehicle does not exist on their database it is not there as non-compliant so I would leave well alone.

Keep a contemperaneous note of the search you did and of the conversation you had with the 'operative', so that if you got a fine you could give evidence of having searched.

Geoff


----------



## Auldgadgey

Geoff
I suspect that if a vehicle is not on the database they will take it as non compliant rather than the other way round, but that's just me.
I'd rather be certain one way or other.
What I don't understand is why they couldn't just say that a vehicle up to 3500kG is compliant if it has a Euro III engine, rather than give what appears to be an arbitrary cut off registration date?
As I said in my first mail for me it's a matter of convenience unlike those who have no option because they live there. 

Cheers
Tony


----------



## nicholsong

For those of you pursuing the LEZ restrictions, particularly those affecting MH over/under the 3.5t cut-off in Jan 2102, I now have the address of the tfl legal dept which is:-

Legal Dept
Congestion Charge and Traffic Enforcement
"Palestra"
197 Blackfriars Bridge Road
London SE1 8NJ

I have yet to establish whether they have a right to discriminate on weight. I shall be at their heels.

It would be useful if anyone else with the appropriate skills can pursue this legal trail - any volunteers?

Geoff


----------



## nicholsong

Tony

I think it is an automated system: camera reads number plate, compares with computer, if non-compliant issues ticket to registered address.

If vehicle is not on system, so nor is address, so no ticket.

So where is the problem?

I wish I had your situation. In my case they have my vehicle as non-compliant in 2102 even though it is plated below 3.5t.

Conversation today basically resulted in my saying "Your records are wrong and you are requiring me to produce evidence to correct it? Response "Yes"

My response was " So I am guilty until proved innocent?" "Yes"

My further response was "I consider that against the Principles of English Law"

Watch this space.

Geoff


----------



## locovan

nicholsong said:


> For those of you pursuing the LEZ restrictions, particularly those affecting MH over/under the 3.5t cut-off in Jan 2102, I now have the address of the tfl legal dept which is:-
> 
> Legal Dept
> Congestion Charge and Traffic Enforcement
> "Palestra"
> 197 Blackfriars Bridge Road
> London SE1 8NJ
> 
> I have yet to establish whether they have a right to discriminate on weight. I shall be at their heels.
> 
> It would be useful if anyone else with the appropriate skills can pursue this legal trail - any volunteers?
> 
> Geoff


Geoff I will put this on the MCC Facebook where they have been discussing this :wink:


----------



## antpurley

what's the mcc facebook page, would like to follow it as we really need to do something re this, as we are getting no where and time is/has running out!


----------



## locovan

antpurley said:


> what's the mcc facebook page, would like to follow it as we really need to do something re this, as we are getting no where and time is/has running out!


Sorry just seen this go to MCC friends on face book and join


----------



## Auldgadgey

I've checked the Tfl database and the bus is now registered as "Compliant" after 03 Jan 2012.

Hope the information I've put up here is of use to others. 

Geoff 
I'm much happier knowing where I stand rather than being a "non Person" while Tfl might not have had my MH on their database the DVLA certainly do.

Good luck to everyone fighting to get some justice in this case.

Cheers
Tony


----------



## ChristineH

As we are part of Europe I do not understand why we cannot follow the same rules as Germany (Stuttgart) whereby if you live within the emission zone you are permitted to drive out of the zone and back home by the shortest route without charge. Therefore those living within the zone are not penalised. It would not help the inner London campsites but it would certainly help those living within the zone.


----------



## sallytrafic

nicholsong said:


> Tony
> 
> I think it is an automated system: camera reads number plate, compares with computer, if non-compliant issues ticket to registered address.
> 
> If vehicle is not on system, so nor is address, so no ticket.
> 
> So where is the problem?
> 
> I wish I had your situation. In my case they have my vehicle as non-compliant in 2102 even though it is plated below 3.5t.
> 
> Conversation today basically resulted in my saying "Your records are wrong and you are requiring me to produce evidence to correct it? Response "Yes"
> 
> My response was " So I am guilty until proved innocent?" "Yes"
> 
> My further response was "I consider that against the Principles of English Law"
> 
> Watch this space.
> 
> Geoff


You are on very dodgy ground.

If your vehicle is not listed and you wish to drive in the LEZ you must register it with them.

If they catch a non registered vehicle they will just ask the DVLA where to send the bill/fine.

Leading up to and during the Olympics, UK will have to pay huge fines because of its air pollution unless it is drastically reduced. (Beijing just banned all non-olympic vehicles for a month or so). So I don't see any politician doing anything to help.


----------



## artona

I agree with Frank, be careful. 

The DVLA have massive powers. They are quite capable and willing to just revoke your driving license. They are not bothered if you are not aware this has happened and will allow you to just drive around illegal

If they catch you on camera, fine you and you do not pay or defend yourself, even if you are not aware then maybe revoking your license in your absence is a step they will take

stew


----------



## Suenliam

Certainly be careful.

One of the problems of driving around without being LEZ compliant whether you are aware of it or not, is that I would not trust an insurance company to cover you in the event of an accident. You know what they are like - any reason not to cover would be taken by them.

It's one thing to risk being uninsured if it only affects yourself, it's quite another where other people are concerned  

Sue


----------



## locovan

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17702.aspx

If your vehicle doesnt show under the registration you have to do it by vehicle type

So try this one
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/lez/check-by-type/default.aspx


----------



## bulawayolass

I just checked and am compliant  (thankfully) reading all the posts on here. Have no plans to go down around it but you never know.


----------



## Punch

*FIAT Hymer LEZ compliance*

It looks like the costs for compliant filters are beginning to fall - there are now some being developed for lower mileage non fleet vehicle such as motorhomes - apparently there is one due from Clean Diesel technologies at about £1400 + £300ish for fitting +VAT and more info on http://www.tomsettkent.com/lowemmissionzonemotorhomes.htm


----------



## Arrachogaidh

*Burstner Elegance i821 Fiat Ducato 2.8jtd 2006 LEZ 2012*

I don't know if we will ever be travelling into London but there seems a lot of conflicting information around. I am new to motorhomes.

I understood that if the vehicle was Euro 3 it would be compliant for 2012.

Is this the case? I would also like to understand if we would be compliant in Germany which we may visit.

I understand the M25 is exempt from LEZ?

Any help appreciated. :roll: :roll:

Brian


----------



## sallytrafic

Today's Guardian ran a full page about the problems of campervans inside the LEZ.

First time I've seen a national paper mention it.

Here is a link to the online version >LEZ Guardian<


----------



## locovan

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17702.aspx

If your vehicle doesnt show under the registration you have to do it by vehicle type

So try this one 
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/lez/check-by-type/default.aspx

What they have done is to change the goal posts and its more on weight as well so please check you M/Home.

We are fighting still very hard in the back ground as we have found a loophole so please still watch this

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-101504-lez.html+residents

We have so many London residents in the LEZ in the MCC and CCC and MHFacts we have fought so long and hard for them The fine is so out of order.
Boris did listen to me and did put it off for 2 years where he said that he would allow more time for people to get the Filter or exchange their M/Homes but please now check. Jan 2012 is the date but we will keep fighting

The M25 is not in the LEZ where it does cross in Essex etc it is exempt xx :wink:


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## Arrachogaidh

Ah, WEIGHT, that explains some of it. My Burstner is registered as Private HGV 5 tonne.

So it gets hit on weight, not because it has an engine that fails the test.

As you say, seems unfair. Is there any logic behind that decision?

Probably not I guess......
:roll: :roll: :roll:


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