# MOT and weights beware



## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

In case anyone is new to having a motorhome MOT'd just a note of caution, the certificate does now say the weights measured on the day so make sure you are not overweight when you turn up, or else it will be recorded on there and who knows could cause a problem if stopped abroad for example?
Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this/experience of?


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## Traveller_HA5_3DOM (May 9, 2005)

My local MOT station does not have weighbridge facilities, are we sure that this is not the weight taken from the DVLA computer record when they access the online info on your vehicle?


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## sideways (Jun 2, 2008)

Thats only possible if you attend an mot station with a weighbridge and after 45 years in the motor trade i,ve yet to see one except possibly a Vosa HGV station.If your vehicle is more than 3500kg gross the weight is on the logbook anyway.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

ruthiebabe said:


> so make sure you are not overweight when you turn up


Dont worry Im starting my diet again on Monday but thanks for the heads up.


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## inkey-2008 (May 24, 2008)

At the VOSA station I use the axle weight comes up on the brake test result sheet. I am sure I saw it when he showed me when it failed last year on the handbrake test.

Andy


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ruthiebabe (the OP) said the weights *measured * on the day.

Are we talking about over 3500kg ?
Was this at a VOSA station?
Where were the weights entered on the MOT?
Did they note total weight and all axle weights?

Interesting to know

Geoff


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

New brake testers weigh at the same time

Loddy


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

Shouldnt be anything to worry about. Chances are there will be no people in the van, no water and none of your stuff for going away. If you still overweight then you have serious problems!


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

I think the point of weighing is to be able to calculate the brake effort not check for overloading :roll: 

Loddy


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

ruthiebabe said:


> In case anyone is new to having a motorhome MOT'd just a note of caution, the certificate does now say the weights measured on the day so make sure you are not overweight when you turn up, or else it will be recorded on there and who knows could cause a problem if stopped abroad for example?
> Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this/experience of?


Is it printed on the certificate or the print out from the brake tester?

Loddy


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

Apologies, it is on the Brake Test reult sheet not the actual MOT Test Certificate, but it was measured on the day on a rolling carpet thing. I am assuming that it is wise to keep all these with you if travelling abroad so it is just of interest that an actual measurement is recorded, rather than the threat of one if stopped!

Oh and I agree, you shouldn't be over without driver and passengers...but I know for a fact that many people are, with their chattels alone inside. 

Do check 8O


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I do not recall receiving a break test sheet, but do not have the documentation with me at present.

Is it possible that supplying this sheet is only necessary if the vehicle has failed and not if it has passed the break test?

Again Qs

Did it give axle weights or just overall weight etc.?

Geoff


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## ruthiebabe (Aug 16, 2005)

No, it is standard practice now at modern MOT stations, we have taken our 2006 MH to this one 2 years running and no it has not failed, the separate sheet gives both axle and total measured weight. They did however say that using the rolling carpet device provides only a guide related to brake performance and is not equivalent to a weighbridge, ie if you need a legal weight measurement it can't be relied upon you must use a weighbridge. 

hth, Ruth


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## C7KEN (May 27, 2005)

When I took my van for the Spanish ITV the (MOT spanish version)
it was weighed this year for the first time and was 210kilos overweight. They kindly gave me the money back and allowed me to reduce the weight. 3 leisure batteries, generator, weighed almost half . So the genny is now not carried nor are the snow chains  but its only possible to get under 3500k if I lose two leisures, spare wheel, air con, sat dish, etc so I am just having to chance it. I took the van back in to the testing station and they tested and passes it all smiling cos they new what I had done i guess.


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## GerryD (Sep 20, 2007)

How new is this? had mine MOT'd last month, nothing on that.
Wouldn't expect an MOT station to have an officially calibrated weigh bridge and wuld not expect Weights and Measures to have sufficient staff to ensure that the calibration certificate is up to date. For this to become part of an MOT pass or failure it must be regularly calibrated.
Gerry


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Thanks Ruth 

I had mine MOTed Class IV at a van rental co., but saw no sign of a rolling road. Is it only VOSA who are using rolling roads?

I will look for the sheet when I get re-united with the MH paperwork.

Geoff


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## grizzlyj (Oct 14, 2008)

At two different commercial sized mot test centres where my 7.5 tons+ camper had the last 3 tests, weights were taken of each axle which were then input into the brake test machine. Weighing is only for this purpose. If the first tester had been concerned about it being overweight I'd have found out how over we were 10 months before I did. No mention was made of it to me at all. I know of two other campers also overweight which were MOT'd in that condition with no mention made.

After the last test I asked what the axle weights were. He was reluctant to tell me since the machine is not calibrated for that unlike a public weighbridge. When I told him I only wanted it for tyre pressures he brightened up and told me.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Ruthiebabe said in an earlier post 'if you need a legal weight measurement'

When would one need one? Surely VOSA will always weigh kerbside anyway?

Just asking for info I may not be aware of - there is lots, I am sure!

Geoff


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

I had a conversation with Sprokit at the knutsford show on this very subject.

My van went for test last week at VOSA Kirkcaldy, and i was disappointed to find their brake rollers were broken, so I couldn't get the axle weights.

Keith (Sprokit) told me the weights from the brake rollers are not at all accurate (as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

On that basis, I wouldn't even use those weights for calculating tyre pressures! 

Brake test was done using a Tapley meter (and the lorries were being tested with this too!).

Still, it passed with no advisories so I'm happy.

As an aside, I've never been given the brake test results or emissions sheet at VOSA sites, occasionally at MOT garages.

David


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## asprn (Feb 10, 2006)

ruthiebabe said:


> Apologies, it is on the Brake Test reult sheet not the actual MOT Test Certificate, but it was measured on the day on a rolling carpet thing


Loddy will confirm this (being an ex-MoT tester) but the weights used on the day for the brake test, are purely for the tester's brake calculator. They have nothing to do with any weight issues with the van (e.g. payload, axle weight etc.) _per se_.



ruthiebabe said:


> I am assuming that it is wise to keep all these with you if travelling abroad


I disagree. You don't need the brake test result sheet, and taking it with you & producing it to a foreign official will only serve to confuse the issue big-style. Look how confused _you_ are, and you've not left the country yet!  File it in the round metal bin in the kitchen.

Dougie.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

"round metal bin in the kitchen"

Is that another legal requirement?

If so, the suprmarkets have not been told that I cannot use their bags for rubbish - usually only 1 a week!

Geoff


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

So, just on the subject of brake tests.

VOSA use some sort of weighing machine, which is not calibrated, so they will not give out results from it.

But the readouts from these weights are used to ascertain whether a vehicle passes or fails the brake test.

Am I right so far?

Then we pay for these tests, and re-tests, based on a machine which has not been calibrated?

Doh, Doh Doh!!!!

Geoff


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

It's only new equipment that can weigh so there is still a lot of garages that don't, brake testers are calibrated every 6 months so I assume some sort of calibration for weight will be carried out at the same time. I have always supplied a weigh bridge ticket when having my van MOTed because they or I need the weight to do the brake calculations ( class 4 as vehicle is as presented, Class 7 MGVW). Vosa don't have all the kerb weights of modified Motorhomes so the tester needs a bit of help :wink: 

If you really want to know I will find out but I suspect VOSA sre doing correctley,  

Loddy


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## Touchwood_RV (May 1, 2005)

Had the car MOT’ed a few weeks ago at a stranded MOT garage, the rolling road showed the weight of each wheel when it was placed on the rollers, this was recorded on the testers printout, just checked the MOT certificate nothing on there – there is a dim recollection of a good few years ago when I took a Yank for an MOT at the local Council Motor Vehicle Workshop (they have the ability to MOT bigger vehicles and some are open to the public) when I asked why this was displayed on the brake test board I remember the tester told me it was to enable him to correctly calibrate the rollers.

Cheers
Steve


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

nicholsong said:


> So, just on the subject of brake tests.
> 
> VOSA use some sort of weighing machine, which is not calibrated, so they will not give out results from it.
> 
> ...


Sorry Geoff, this is not aimed at you in particular, but yours was the last post I read :wink:

Why is it that people seize on only part of the Annual Test and, incorrectly, make a big issue of it 8O .

The only reason a tester would look at weights when doing the brake test is that the vehicle is tested at the "presented" weight, the figures used (on an automatic machine) aid the calculation of the braking effort applied 8) . Nothing to do with being overloaded, obviously if your vehicle is heavy it needs a greater braking effort applied, hence the "rough" check of weights on SOME brake roller testers. Others go by the plated weights.

Please do not rely on any weight information provided from a roller brake tester, take it to a weighbridge and get it done properly.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Said all that Sprokit didn't you read all the posts ??

Loddy


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## sprokit (May 1, 2005)

loddy said:


> It's only new equipment that can weigh so there is still a lot of garages that don't, brake testers are calibrated every 6 months so I assume some sort of calibration for weight will be carried out at the same time. I have always supplied a weigh bridge ticket when having my van MOTed because they or I need the weight to do the brake calculations ( class 4 as vehicle is as presented, Class 7 MGVW). Vosa don't have all the kerb weights of modified Motorhomes so the tester needs a bit of help :wink:
> 
> If you really want to know I will find out but I suspect VOSA sre doing correctley,
> 
> Loddy


Mmmm - so you did, it's still annoying when people sieze on one item and make such a fuss about nothing - if you ask the right people you'll get the right answer, and, in "theory" that should be the person carrying out the test. :roll:

Apologies to all if I sounded a bit off, I just get so annoyed when folks make assumptions.

Keith (Sprokit)


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Keith 

I did start my post with JUST on the subject of break testing.

If their break tester has been calibrated well enough for VOSA break testing then why cannot the weight info be given to the operator?

I am also challenging VOSA about info on weghts and tyre pressure.

Neither my tyre manufacturer (Michelin) nor the converter (N+B) will supply recommended pressures specific to my weighbridge axle weights. So I asked VOSA to tell me how I should establish correct pressures.

VOSA initially said they did not answer such Qs. and referred me to TTS at Dft, Marsham St.

I e-mailed TTS, copied to VOSA, suggesting one or other should answer soon or I go higher.

Got response 2 days ago from VOSA, which basically said they will respond after all (Well they do report to Dft don't they?)

Got reply today from VOSA which said go to tyre manufacturer and/or converter.

In their reply the said they would only get involved when a tyre has failed. Not quite sure how they measure the pressure then!!!

Have told them to read facts in my original and DO BETTER.

Sorry bit off-topic - other than can we really trust VOSA to keep us safe rather than be Jobsworths?

Geoff


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Nicholsong

Your questions all sound a bit manic, you should calm down a bit and stop demanding answers.

One question though what's tyre pressures got to do with VOSA ??

and one other thing brake is spelt brake as in brakes on a car

Loddy


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## b16duv (Feb 14, 2006)

Geoff,

Michelin technical have in the past supplied specific tyre pressure recommendations relative to given axle weights, however I'm sure (?) I have read somewhere that they no longer do this. 

Perhaps a quick phone call to their helpline would clear this up.

My (limited) understanding is that tyre pressures are not generic, they are a function of the composition of the tyre and specific to the tyre make and model, thus the tyre manufacturer is the only reliable source of advice.

As a rule of thumb, if tyres are underinflated, they will wear excessively on the edges (both) and will also run hot and increase fuel consumption. If overinflated, they will wear down the middle of the tread and grip will be reduced. 

So a good 'guide' will be measuring the temperature of the tyres after a reasonable run - I use the back of my hand when doing this and it's pretty obvious if a tyre is underinflated.

The main problems regulatory bodies and manufacturers have is that they have no control over the operating conditions of the vehicle, particularly in respect of changing axle weights - ie more or less water, diesel, passengers etc which can make a difference. 

Should they advise a given pressure and then the tyre fails, who is liable? 

As for VOSA, they do a great job with limited resources and have over 30 million vehicles to deal with. Sure there may be some 'jobsworths' but that is the same in any organisation. Perhaps if you'd seen some of things they do when carrying out inspections you'd realise what they are up against!

Sprokit is one of the good guys and I have found him to be extremely helpful when I've needed advice, give him a break (brake?)
:lol: 

David


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## tikki (May 13, 2005)

A few yars ago I had to take a previous 'van - a kontiki to the VOSA HGV testing station for an MOT. The only local MOT garage in the area that could accomodate us had closed. The MOT was passed but because I used a VOSA station, I was also given a print out of axle weights. The rear was over the limit by a lot and the front was under - overall, 35kg legal. That was just the driver, fuel, some water and normal habitation stuff but, no bikes, barbecue or family!
The tester said that the axle weights were for my information and had no relevance to the test for my class of vehicle.
Still, it worried me so much that we changed the Kontiki a few months later for something with a better payload.

Chris


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies.

Apologies I probably should not have brought in the VOSA reference to the tyre pressures - bit off-topic from the OP's subject, but it seemed relevant to the info VOSA are prepared to share with owners.

The original OP's topic seems to have pulled out sufficient info. on that.

But since it has led to comments on tyre pressures I will deal with them.

I originally went to Michelin by e-mail. I quote Michelin's reply dated 2nd June 2010 to my specific request for pressures, where I quoted weighbridge axle weights to them:-

"As a guideline from the axle weights that you have supplied on tyre size 215/75 R16 C and being the XC Camping, the pressures for those weights are as follows:-

Front axle load of 1600kg the pressure should be – 55psi (pounds per square inch)
Rear axle load of 1960kg the pressure should be – 80psi (pounds per square inch)

You would be advised to follow the manufacturers recommended pressures, indicated on the fuel cap / door-pillar / vehicle handbook in relation to the tyre size fitted – specifications can change without our knowledge."

Note Michelin use the phrase "as a guideline", but go on to say use the converters recommended pressures.

Therein lies the problem because N+B do not give any and Fiat Handbook states 5.5 Mb front and rear for the tyres fitted, both in laden and unladen state, which seems excessively high to me.

It was for this reason I contacted VOSA on the basis they are the authority which, on a roadside check, could say tyres were incorrectly inflated. I therefore presumed they must have access to the info on correct pressures.

Their answer threw it back to tyre manufacturers, but as you see from Michelin's reply quoted above they refer to the info from the converter, which does not exist.

So far full circle (or should that be one tyre revolution?)

I am waiting a further reply from VOSA.

Does anyone know what inflation info VOSA inspectors use at the roadside checks?

I understand about the temperature but do not feel experienced enough to know what is too hot or cold. I am also aware that wrong pressures produce uneven wear so want to prevent that.

I quite understand if somebody wants to move this to another thread but do not know how to go about that.

Geoff


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

just an observation

Why take MOT certificate abroad. It is meaningless.

As for vehicle weight, whatever your MOT and brake test certs say it is the local weight requirements when driving that you have to meet and you will be weighed locally.

I can think of no reason to carry it at all


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## loddy (Feb 12, 2007)

Why carry them at all ? it's all computerised

Loddy :?


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Production of documents

Has the UK law changed re requirement for production of documents at a police station within 5 days?

If not it may still be sensible to carry them to avoid interrupting a holiday in Scotland with a long round trip to London. (I am a bachelor so nobody at home to post them)

Just asking.

Geoff


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## thieawin (Jun 7, 2006)

nicholsong said:


> Production of documents
> 
> Has the UK law changed re requirement for production of documents at a police station within 5 days?
> 
> ...


good point.

First MOT is now computerised so Mr plod can check on line even from his patrol car

To check the MOT status of a vehicle visit the MOT Computerisation website operated by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_10020539

Second if you are given a producer and cannot comply then it is a fine of up to £1,000 but no points. I cannot see any one being given producers on MOT's any more in practice and if you were given one and did not comply and they prosecuted no bench would give anything other than an absolute discharge given the information is available on line


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

thieawin

The same argument would presuably hold good for the V5C, but I am not sure about the Insurance Cert because the Police may want to check details, such as who was entitled to drive etc. and I am uncertain how much info is available to them, other than the fact that insurance exists for that vehicle.

Any advice?

Geoff


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