# Adding a scooter carrier/scooter trailer, advice needed.



## 105644 (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi All
In the future we hope to be able to take a small moped away with us.
The van has a very long overhang, from the back wheels to the back of the van is about 1.5 metres and the actual frame/chassis finishes 0.6 metres from the back of the van.
My question is:-

Who can I contact to try and find out what my best option is regarding carrying a moped. (apart from you lovely lot of course)

I want to find out how or if I can fit a moped carrier on the back of the van and how this will affect the weight and/or if a tow bar and small trailer would be a better option.
I have recently discovered that the design weights have been upgraded and a plate has been put behind the passenger seat that reads.

GVM 4000kg
GTM 5500kg
Axle1 1850kg
Axle2 2300kg
I am thinking that as long as the back axle does not exceed 2300kg I should be ok with some sort of moped carrier?
I do realise that working out the exact weight allowed and how this could be done, is not a straight forward matter, that's why I'm on here.

One additional question while its on my mind; My original GVM was 3850kg with a user payload of 509kg, now my GVM is 4000kg does this mean that my user payload is now 659kg?

Thanks in advance for any help, as always much appreciated.
The 3 photos below, hopefully show what I have in mind.

Two companies have told me that it is possible but neither company mentioned anything about the long overhang and the effect it will have on the rear axle?


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

I would:

1) Send an email of this post and pics to:
http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/contact.html
asking them whether they think a towbar and scooter carrier is feasible.

2) If yes, load the van as if going away for at least a week (including copilot) and visit a weighbridge.

3) Come back on here with the answers and we can tell you what load you can place on the rear, allowing for towbar and scooter rack. Then you can see what scooter options you have, if any, and optionally can trade existing payload.

Dave


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## macone48 (Mar 14, 2006)

*Scooter rack or Trailer??*

Hi,

I see some months ago someone asked the same qestion about a Swift motorhome like yours, I believe, Sundance 630L.

I have no solution for you unfortunately, but if you do search you will see lots of advice.

You have already seen the size of the problem. Get a tow bar and take it from there.

My solution was to get a small motorbike trailer, which "may be" up for sale as I'm going A-framing and folding bike route!!

Cheers,

Trev


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Good afternoon

in addition to what dave and trev have said I would load up as normal and then buy some bags of sand or gravel to the equivelent weight of the bike and rack place them as far back as possible and then weight it this should give you some idea the leveridge on sutch an overhang is large 


Happy tripping 

norm


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

norm,

Just to point out that the towbar, ball and rack will weigh more than the scooter! 

Dave


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

You can easily calculate the effect, if you already know your axle weights. See this previous post by Dave. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-99650.html#99650

You also need to take into account the maximum permitted overhang. I think (from memory) that the maximum permitted overhang - which includes anything fitted permanently to the rear of the vehicle, is 60% of the wheel base. I had a Swift M/H where the long overhang was already at the maximum permitted - so had problems fitting a bike rack

Rick


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Rick,

Yes, good point on total overhang. Though one for which a blind eye is turned regarding the RV community. Both owners and dealers get touchy about it before claiming they are exempt anyway (so why get touchy?). No-one has yet been able to explain to me how they are exempt AT THE MOMENT.

Dave


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## 105644 (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: Scooter rack or Trailer??*



macone48 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I see some months ago someone asked the same qestion about a Swift motorhome like yours, I believe, Sundance 630L.
> Cheers,
> Trev


Just had a look at Trev's link to the other post, I can see I need to give this a lot of thought, with the length of overhang might go down the tow bar and trailer route? we will see.
Thanks for all the help


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## Jean-Luc (Jul 21, 2005)

Hi, if you have excel have a play with the numbers in black in the attachment below, the numbers in red will change automatically (they're a formula) to show the actual weight effect of something hanging off the back of the MH.


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

Wilst thinking about this, as you do, I came across this:

_Vehicle Dimensions

Recent changes in EU legislation mean that ALL vehicles must comply to the turning circle legislation (12.5m outer and 5.3m inner circle) which had hitherto only applied to articulated vehicles. In addition, a 'Swing out1 dimension has been introduced as an alternative to the '60% rule1

The maximum 'Swing out1 dimension is;

800mm for a rigid vehicle

1000mm for a rigid vehicle with a lift axle in the raised position

1200mm for an articulated bus.

'Swing Out' ?
If you draw a line alongside the vehicle at a position that coincides with the outer edge of the vehicle and project that line forward of the vehicle, then turn the steering wheel so that when you drive forward the front corner of the vehicle describes a 12.5m radius circle, the rear end of the vehicle should not project outside the drawn line by more than the dimension for the particular vehicle.

In practice this means that the 60% rule can be exceeded, but this can lead to two main problems;

Over length vehicles, 12m is maximum for a rigid 
Rear axle overload, due to increased body length_

Whether this is an "either/or" situation, regarding the regs, or whether you need to comply with both, I don't know - but maybe this is how the "60% rule" can be circumvented.


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## DABurleigh (May 9, 2005)

Rick,

Yes, I covered that alternative inter alia here:
http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-592120-60.html#592120

But if you see the turning circle sketch, it cannot offer THAT much relief on the 60% rule in practice.

Dave


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## rickwiggans (May 10, 2006)

Dave,

I think you are right - although I guess every little helps. One of the documents you cite, though, answers one of my uncertainties - it is the 60% rule OR the swing out rule. Thankfully, it's not something I need to wrestle with any longer - bikes inside!

Rick


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## huss (Mar 5, 2008)

*Rack weight*

if its of any help a Watling scooter rack weighs about 25/26 kg

Huss


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## CliveMott (Mar 10, 2008)

My understanding is that if the rack can be removed without the use of tools then it is not covered by the old 60% or new turning radius regulations.

But I have not read the words myself.

C.


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## Rislar (Aug 16, 2008)

I looked at this with my Suntor 630l and it was a no no as of weight, so a trailer it is for you!!


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## macone48 (Mar 14, 2006)

Bump !!

Hi Kevandali,

Have you managed to get to a weight bridge yet ??

You also have a PM

Trev


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