# Over winter heating



## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

Hi all, Been looking in to putting some kind of heating in the mh over winter i.e the green house type tube heaters, so i need some help on size and most importantly cost of running it for say three months, any help will be appreciated. 

dennis


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## H1-GBV (Feb 28, 2006)

If you intend burning a fuel, such as paraffin, not only will you have an awful smell but you will generate large quantities of water, as this is a by-product of combustion.

Are you on EHU? We are and use a 1kW oil-filled heater on its lowest setting, to just keep the frost off.

We also stand all cushions etc on end (and move them every week or so) and open all cupboard doors.

If not on EHU, could you use your gas heater, so that fumes are exhausted externally? Set on low, I would guess a large bottle might last a month?? However, you may have site restrictions about leaving gas appliances running, and you may have an un-sustainable drain on your battery.

Many folk reckon there is no need to keep the van warm, just dry.

Good luck - Gordon


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

G'day Dennis.
I use a small 900watt oil filled rad in conjunction with and electric dehumidifier.

I put it on a timer for a couple of hours a day to keep running costs down.

The main thing is to keep the air churning over. Its still stagnant air that is going to cause damp which in turn will cause mildew and moulds.

The dehumidifier works by blowing air through a fridge matrix, extracted moisture then drains into or tank or, as in my case through a plastic tube to the outside via a footwell gas drop hole.


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

How many vans do you find on dealer's forecourts with heating in them in winter ? 

We've never put any heating in. So long as you make sure all cupboards and lockers and internal doors are open and the normal van vents are uncovered to give good ventilation inside you will not have problems. Moulds thrive in warm damp conditions not cold dry ones. You're more likely to get mould if you heat the van.

G


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Grizzly said:


> How many vans do you find on dealer's forecourts with heating in them in winter ?
> 
> G


How many dealers' vans have damp problems? Especially in the out of the way corners such as overcab beds.

Air circulation is the answer, which a small heater on a low setting can supply. Its not the temperature but static moisture saturated air which causes mould.

Cold air dumps its moisture very readily (that's how rain works) whereas warm air will retain its moisture and not deposit it in absorbent fabrics.


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## SomersetSteve (Oct 4, 2011)

We used a small oil filled heater set on a low temperature last winter. We did used the fridge as additional space over Christmas so were in and out a few times which helps change the air. All cupboards etc were left open, no sign or sensation of damp at all.


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## 5bells (Feb 4, 2009)

Hi Dennis

I am no expert but the moisture in warm air wil condense on any poorly insulated colder parts of the van.

We had our dimplex coldwatcher 500 watt electric heater on low last year and found some water around the head of a bolt holding the insulated floor to the chassis in the side locker under the bed, fortunately found it well in time so no problems at last damp check.

As long as van is properly drained down all should be fine without a heater and when I discovered this problem the temperature up here in scotland had been as low as minus 25c.

When I drain down now I blow through all pipes, I take the shower head off and blow through first on hot with heater valve open and then the cold ensuring that the water pump is empty fortunately our shower is at the end of the pipe runs.

Ray


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## brillopad (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks all, All i really need to know is the size of your heaters and how much it costs to run, ie. £5 or £10 or £50 per month, thats all i already have a de humid running, the vans covered up so can't use gas or want too for that matter, i just need a little bit of electric heat. thanks again.

Dennis


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## spatz1 (May 19, 2011)

100w tube heater on 24 hours = 36p per day or £11 a month


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## 5bells (Feb 4, 2009)

As I have said ours is a 500 watt dimplex coldwatcher. Cant say how much it cost to run as its on a thermostat which kicks in at 5 Deg C so depends on how cold it is outside. 

We also use it on site in colder weather.

No doubt there is a way of recording when its on but Im not that nerdy yet :lol: 
Ray


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## poleman (Aug 31, 2008)

We put a small oil radiator in our van last winter, as said on the lowest setting and we never noticed a rise in the cost of electric bills. The previous winter without heat the ceiling and roof lights were mouldy and dripping like at tap! 

Compared to the cost of any damp repair and the purchase price of your investment I think cost of the electric would have to be a lower priority.


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## blondy (Aug 23, 2007)

*Heater*

We have had a 3 setting electric convector heater with a thermostat in 
Our motorhomes and caravan before for over 12 years,plus a dehumidifier.
We have had people say how dry and crisp the furnishings are, we never remove things etc.
What people must realise is that damp from cooking, showers, wet weather etc is all absorbed into the absorbent structures of the M /H and is only removed by warmth and a dehumidifier or ventilation outwards,
Problem is, if you take air out in damp weather it brings in more damp air. So it's rubbish to think that just leaving it cold keeps it dry, the damp is there somewhere


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Heater*



blondy said:


> What people must realise is that damp from cooking, showers, wet weather etc is all absorbed into the absorbent structures of the M /H and is only removed by warmth and a dehumidifier or ventilation outwards,
> Problem is, if you take air out in damp weather it brings in more damp air. So it's rubbish to think that just leaving it cold keeps it dry, the damp is there somewhere


How does warmth remove damp ? Where does the water that evaporates from your soft furnishings go ? It condenses on the nearest handy cold surface; wheel arch, windscreen etc

If you ventilate your van as you cook and sleep in it and ventilate it while in storage then you will not have problems in a cold van. Do you keep the heater in your car running all night in cold weather ? Does your car have mould growing in it ?

It's the throwing-paper-out- of -the- train -window- to -deter elephants problem again !

G


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## Morphology (Jul 23, 2010)

poleman said:


> Compared to the cost of any damp repair and the purchase price of your investment I think cost of the electric would have to be a lower priority.


I think this is the point. £10 per month to protect a £30+ investment is well worth it.

We do the oil-filled radiator thing, and it always smells fresh and dry.


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## Codfinger (Jan 11, 2008)

One thing to watch is your mattress and cushions have some air and pref not left against the side of the van where mould may develop, I have used a dehumidifier but no longer do just a small oil filled rad, try to open up the van on nice days and get some fresh air around.
Chris


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

Morphology said:


> I think this is the point. £10 per month to protect a £30+ investment is well worth it.
> 
> We do the oil-filled radiator thing, and it always smells fresh and dry.


But my point is: _ is it necessary ? Are you actually protecting the van ? _ Indeed, are you doing more harm than good ? The money side of it is not material in the argument; the efficacy of it is. Science would say you don't have a case to use heat. It is rather a counter-intuitive explanation I agree but it is correct.

G


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## JIMY (Feb 24, 2011)

If you put a heater on in your van it will cause convection air flow. Cold air will come from outside, on heating this air will absorb more moisture and this will be expelled through vents- moisture gone
Jim


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## Grizzly (May 9, 2005)

JIMY said:


> If you put a heater on in your van it will cause convection air flow. Cold air will come from outside, on heating this air will absorb more moisture and this will be expelled through vents- moisture gone
> Jim


If only it were that simple Jim !

G


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## poleman (Aug 31, 2008)

It's the same principal for a dehumidifier if you don't close off your cab and caravan vents you are still drawing in outside air to dry.

If you don't use your car for months on end it will also go mouldy and so will all those snack crumbs in the carpet and upholstery, it's a right mess!


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

Hi Dennis

Your de-humidifier won't have much effect in winter temperatures, they need warm air to be effective at removing moisture, that's why they always quote the extraction rate "at 30 deg C".

We run a small 800w oil filled radiator on an independent thermostat during the cold weather. The 'stat is set to operate below 8 degrees so it doesn't run away with the 'lectric. I probably got a spare one kicking around, give me a shout if you want one. :wink:


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## CurlyBoy (Jan 13, 2008)

Hi Dennis,hope you are both well,we use a small oil filled, thermostatic controlled radiator (LIDL) usually set very low,but turned up a bit when it gets really cold,not often here in Cornwall :lol: :lol: see you soon.

curlyboy


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## SNandJA (Aug 22, 2008)

gaspode said:


> Hi Dennis
> 
> Your de-humidifier won't have much effect in winter temperatures, they need warm air to be effective at removing moisture, that's why they always quote the extraction rate "at 30 deg C".
> 
> We run a small 800w oil filled radiator on an independent thermostat during the cold weather. The 'stat is set to operate below 8 degrees so it doesn't run away with the 'lectric. I probably got a spare one kicking around, give me a shout if you want one. :wink:


Remember the van has a good level of ventilation so is always pulling in fresh air from outside. Warmer air hold more mositure tha colder air. If you check out the Meaco website (I don't have any connections to this site) there is some good advice about dehumidifiers that work at temperatures below zero.
Meaco Dehunidifiers

There is a link to advice for boat owners caravan owners and motorhome owners.

I bought a dehumidifier but don't no use it! Just remove the seat squabs and foam mattress, clear cupboards. If M?H is dry at the end of season then remove anything that could get damp and leave it to it! Ventilation rules K.O.! We leave all cupboard doors open and remove all soft furnishings... All OK last year.


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## Jented (Jan 12, 2010)

hi.
People with statics at the sea side,closing up for winter,stack the seat squabs Tee-pee fashion around the table,open all cupboards and leave bowls of salt here and there,this seems to work ok.
Ted.


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

SNandJA said:


> If you check out the Meaco website (I don't have any connections to this site) there is some good advice about dehumidifiers that work at temperatures below zero.


Spot on - good advice <<HERE>> on which de-humidifier to use in temperatures under 15 deg C.

The point is however that very few members with de-humidifiers will have either dessicant or hot gas defrost models which are the only types that will have any effect in cold weather. Also these types are either much less effective and/or cost much more to run than a standard compressor type - they also cost more to purchase. A small, cheap domestic dehumidifier from Argos or similar just won't have much effect because the condenser will freeze up.


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## plasticplumber (Nov 6, 2008)

Condensation and the resultant damp and mould are dependant on humidity and temperature which in turn determines the dew point. If you take the average dew point as 10 degrees (this varies) you have to keep every internal surface of the van above this temperature to prevent condensation. Five degrees simply is not sufficient if humidity is high. The very fact that you add heating also increases the capacity of the air to hold water in suspension. Condensation is therefore increased in areas within the van that do not rise above dew point. Because of their lack of or poor ventilation or poor insulation i.e. cab overheads hidden areas behind showers wheel arches. Good ventilation is therefore required. Ventilation means more heating. It is my opinion that soft furnishing items still need removing from these areas prone to condensation. I therefore leave my van unheated until the day we intend using it after all the average motorhome is constructed of thermally light mass and requires little heat to restore comfort.


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## RichardnGill (Aug 31, 2006)

I have never heated ours, I believe it would cause more of a problem that simple ventilation. 

Touch wood never had a problem with this van or our last van and they have both stood for upto 4 weeks in sub zero temps.

Rich...


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