# Why us !!!!!!!!!!



## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Oh! my god .... where do I start !!!

Seriously after your advice please on this highly disappointing matter !

Ok ... we were due to pick our new Bessacarr E795 up today, ordered over 6 mnths ago so you can well imagine how excited the family were in anticipation of collection.

Anyway ... going back to an earlier thread of ours, complained about no cruise control being fitted to a Motorhome of this price / quality, so after several dissapointing e.mails to Swifts realised our only course of action was to take our dealers advice and have an after market cruise fitted at the same time as the alarm. Was assured by them that there would be no problems, fitted lots of them in the past.

Ok ... we confirmed with the dealer SIX weeks ago we wanted this work carried out, the motorhome had been delivered and was on there premises so no reason not to do the work ready for the collection of the home today. Went to the dealers on Thursday ( 28/02 ) to sort some paperwork & had a wee nose at our motorhome. Was very surprised to see wiring hanging out from underneath the dash. Anyway, bumped into the electrical mechanic who was doing the work & he said he was just finishing the work and should all be cleared by tomorrow ( 29/03 ) So I left feeling confident about collecting today ( 03/03 )

Ok .... Saturday morning we have a telephone call '' Engine Management lights on ... has to go to Fiat Monday ... sorry '' !!!! When I came down from the ceiling & calmed down, popped over to dealer to ask face to face re the problem. Told it probably needed in there words ' a re-boot ' and re arrange a collection time / date ... would try for Monday but couldn't promise.

Sooooo ... phoned up at 10.30 today ( 03/03 ) to speak to a very apologetic manager .... ''can't find the problem ... think it may be the cruise causing the problem .... never happened before.... may be something else .... really don't know'' !!!! Asked when we could expect delivery ...
'' Don't know'' !!!! 

Now for my question to you all .... I clearly stated to the manager we do NOT want this M/home and basically are rejecting it before we even collect it ( I have sort legal advice so am well within our right to do this !! ) and have spoken to Jenny from customer services at Swifts to ask there advice.

Please, please, please ... are we doing the right thing? 

This M/Home is never going to be right ... I am sure it will be a 'botch-job' to get the light to stay off & move the motorhome on to us ... we are really at our wits end with this & can't believe after all the built up excitement over the past months that we have been let down so severely ... wife has taken the day of work, I've changed things around at work ... all for nothing !!! Obviously you can see our sheer disappointment in this, we are ex-caravanners who decided to change over to M/homing so this is our 1st M/home .... OHHHH... We really are SO angry !!!

Any advice on this PLEASE ASAP would be great fully received .... this isn't a moan or dig .... we just are SO upset over all this .... we really don't know what the right thing to do is or where to turn next !!!!!!!! 

Thanks all

Mark, Nicky & Ben ( Oh! & Poppy our black Lab ! )

.


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Mark

We can understand your feelings and why you have ''lost it a bit'' first calm down you will not get anywhere being wound up.

You need to talk calmly to your Dealer and Swift and come to an amicable solution, refusing the van in my opinion is not the correct way to progress, you are protected by warranties

Hope this has helped a little bit

Best Regards
Broom


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## EJB (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm afraid that buying a new MH always seems to be worse than buying a house.
At least with houses most people know, and accept, that there may well be unaccountable delays. With houses you can always buy another....with MH's there aren't any others (new) so you have to accept that it really can be worse than buying a house.

Buying a new MH should have a very large and prominent health warning and people who are susceptable to frustration or anger should always buy second-hand.

I wish you the very best of luck.....Me....I would put the kettle on, relax and think about important things. :wink:


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## Dopeyngrumpy (May 13, 2005)

Hi Mark 

It sounds like you've done the right thing - got advice and considering the "nuclear" option of rejecting the van before delivery. It is however the ultimate option only and you need to balance the frustration and concern over this being tainted goods against the alternatives. 

I would suggest you meet with and discuss options with the dealer but the most senior person you can lay hands on, they have a responsibility to delight you for a purchase this size and will not be at all happy to find themselves in this situation. Throughout of course you'll be remembering that you hold the trump card and use this to keep yourself calm and focussed on what matters... What do you want as an outcome and what will you live with? so prepare for a torrid and difficult discussion by being clear between you all before you go in. I'd also suggest you play them at their own game always, put what you want on the table then keep quiet - they need to deal with it, make all the running and apologies, not you.

Regards

David


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

Well I for one would walk away. This is terrible and I think youve been given the runaround enough. Go to a dealership who cary new motorhomes as stock, wait a week for them to service and ready it then drive it off and start your adventure. Problem solved. No need to wait on delivery from the factory unless you're very specific about your needs.

Bob


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

Mark, chill man... (edited name, sorry)

You've waited 6 months, a few more days to get all sorted isn't going to hurt ?

It seems from your posting that the only problem really is that the EM light is on (poss because of cruise), and the company concerned have been a bit caught out by this and it's causing a delay.. is this really worth rejecting the van for ?

The fix could well be a simple pipe/wire unplugged etc..once done, you have your van with your cruise and all of Spring ahead...

Am I missing something ?

John


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Thank Broom / Ted .... yeah ... agree ... calmed down now & thinking clearly again !

Will post our decision / amendments to decision ... later !

Thanks


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## cabby (May 14, 2005)

It seems to me that disappointment has wound you up into such a state that you are not thinking straight, as previously said, put the kettle on and sit down with a bikky.
Now lets try and get this right, you are all upset because you could not get a factory fitted cruise control, so you are having one fitted now at the Fiat dealer, who now says delivery will be delayed as there is an electrical fault and they are not sure what is causing it and until they sort it you have to twiddle your thumbs.
Well unfortunately these things do happen,however look on the plus side, Swift are now one of the best for warranty and problem sorting.
Now think about where you are going to travel to when you go for your first trip and dream. that should pass away a little frustration.
Why try and refuse a van that you have obviously worked out is best for you.

cabby


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Mark

This Engine Management light has cropped up before on this forum. Has the Fiat part been for its PDI, and had its recalls and campaigns done?

I seem to remember (was it Chigman?) having this, and the 'Flash update' to the EM system cured the problem (or made it go away).

Something for you to check.

Check :: my post here :: to see what should have been done, and check with the dealer.

Gerald


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## 96299 (Sep 15, 2005)

geraldandannie said:


> Hi Mark
> 
> This Engine Management light has cropped up before on this forum. Has the Fiat part been for its PDI, and had its recalls and campaigns done?
> 
> ...


Your right Gerald..Twas I.. 

Yes,had the flash upgrade and touch wood i`ve had no problems with the light coming on since.

steve

ps Mark.If you do go ahead with the purchase of your van,make sure you go over it with a fine tooth comb on handover day.I did with mine,I was there all day from opening to closeing. :lol:


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi again Mark

I would echo most of the posts above. Don't walk away until you are quite sure precisely what you are walking away from.

The cup of tea and a biccy is good advice, but I'd go further and say definitely sleep on it at least once before making a decision.

Then do as several have suggested - meet with someone senior and *discuss *the options. Show them that you have teeth, but keep it as low key as possible and be outwardly "understanding" of the dealer's problems.

Remember - he is not doing this deliberately. He will be as pi55ed off as you since all he wanted was a hassle-free sale with as little come-back as possible afterwards.

I think a full tank of diesel and a chitty for a free habitation service would not be too much to expect, but be careful not to lean too hard because if you accept the van you most definitely want the dealer on your side - just in case you get any further trouble.

Best of luck, and I hope this adds a bit to the previous advice and suggestions.

Cheers


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Are all new motorhome purchasers raving mad ?

This is the second one in a week that has spit their dummy out because The Real World encroached on their fantasy.

When things go wrong be NICE to them, get them on your side, manipulate them and if that fails then spit your dummy out.


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## teemyob (Nov 22, 2005)

*Reject*

Hello there,

I would reject it. Especialy in-view of the current problems with the Fiats.

I am currently in a 3 1/2 year battle with VW over a T5 I bought from them. It is a replacement for a faulty one. If I had known things were going to be this bad, I would have sent it straight back to them.

Trev.


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for your input Brian ( bhewart ) obviously this hasn't happened to you so you are entitled to your views .... it has happened to US though ... so I think we are entitled to, in your words '' throw our dummy out ''

What you have to realise that is whilst we are a little upset in not getting the M/Home today ... we have a 9 yr old coming home from school later ... try explaining to him why it's not on the drive !!!!

We are a sensible family who are well aware things happen like this ... however, when you find out the dealer has been telling '' little white lies'' to us over this .... well thats yet another story...............>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Mark

Brian (bhewart) was a little "robust" in his comments, but his final sentence is very good advice - and it works.

You don't care *how *you get results - the important thing is to get them, and if it takes a bit of greasing, do you really care in the long run?


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

You really are getting upset over something that could well be a small electrical problem. If you were buying a house and a fuse blew would you not allow the electrician the time to rectify the problem or would you pack all of your belongings and move to an hotel?

I am not sure what you do for a living but if every day is perfect without anything going wrong then you are a one off!


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

We had a very similar situation with our Autocruise Starblazer,we ordered it before they went into administration and I assume because of the problems at the Autocruise factory it was 3months late in delivery!
I was getting fed up and nearly walked away from the deal but it arrived eventually (with some help from the Swift team) and we were pleased we had waited.
There have been several niggly things wrong,mainly things not connected or wired properly and it has been back to the dealers.
It is currently at the dealers now as the steadies are too long (you can't swing them down!) so they will have to be replaced and the LED exterior roof lights don't work.
When these problems are solved all our snagging should be done.
It makes you mad,you feel disappointed,it takes the edge off your purchase but when we bought our new house that had 57 items on the snagging list so half a dozen on the Motorhome is not bad!
Can you not negotiate some extras or a free service for your inconvenience? 
That may make you feel better.
No one moaned as much as me when I was playing the waiting game for my new Motorhome but I love it and I think it is worth the hassle of getting relatively small problems solved.
Good luck!

Val


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

Speedyone, I sort of know how you feel, we had a call a day before collection date to say our Tempo had a fault and had to go back to Autocruise, and I felt terrible for a while.

However, (probably due to me being in the motor trade), one thing I realised right away is that the dealer would not want any problems either so I tried to remain calm. 

I am glad I did, since I believe this contributed to the dealer and Autocruise sorting the problem out very quickly.

As for explaining to a 9 year old? Are you serious? He is a child, you are an adult. Do children REALLY find this sort of thing a problem? 

If this delay is gonna upset him, how will he deal with the fact you have rejected it?

Be careful with this rejection idea, if this motorhome is sought after, you might find the dealer more than happy to accept and sell it to someone else!

Hope it all works out.

Kev


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Don't worry too much about the Engine Management light. It's connected to all sorts of components so is normally not a major malfunction warning. When I had my new Fiat for a fortnight the EM came on just two miles from home as I set out to a show rally. It took a main agent a week to find the cause, which was.....wait for it! A small bit of corrosion in the reversing light was causing a fuse to blow. On this same fuse was the air flow meter ( whatever that is ), which activated the EM light.


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## RedSonja (May 22, 2006)

Give Speedyone a break guys!

Yes he is entitled to be very upset (I know I would) Yes its very hard to tell a child that something they expected isn't there (but they will get over it) Its not the end of the world (just feels like it at the moment)

This is probably the biggest purchase next to a house he has made and he wants to make sure that everything will be ok in the end.

Lets hope after Tea and Bics (chocolate) Speedy has calmed down and can think straight, that the dealer pulls his finger out and gets the problem sorted and offers him a couple of freebies to keep him sweet.

There will always be snags when buying something new be it a house, car or Mhome. Lets hope everything is sorted and you can get out and experience Motor Homing as it should be enjoyed, relaxed and with a glass of wine in beautiful scenery.

Good Luck Speedyone and lets hope everything is to your satisfaction shortly.

Sonja


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Speedyone said:


> Thanks for your input Brian ( bhewart ) obviously this hasn't happened to you


Quite right, we got our first, second hand, MH last year, delivery date 24th 10am, at 10am we were being given the full newbie guide to motorhoming, thank you Barons.

>> you find out the dealer has been telling '' little white lies'' 
>> to us over this .... well thats yet another story..

Why ? Because he's so afraid of you causing a fuss. And what do you do ? Cause a fuss.

Ease up on them, give them a chance and they'll be more inclined to help you.

Soon, as you cruise along all this will be forgotten, let's be positive, where is your first destination ? At least you are giving the weather a chance to improve.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Zebedee said:


> Brian (bhewart) was a little "robust" in his comments


Blunt northerner. I think it's t' cheap imported Chinese wode. When us used to paint ourselves wi' the stuff me granny made, trampled t' berries wi' 'er bare feet she did, eeh 'er feet were a right pretty colour, wi wern't as blunt. I reckon thee Chinese put loads o' chemicals i' this wode. Makes us right grumpy it does.


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## tel999 (Aug 17, 2007)

Hi Speedyone
I have over 40 years in the motor trade and will confirm one thing.
Mr Nice Guy will get screwed, I will not go into examples unless you ask, but there are many.
If I had your problems the only person to talk to is the OWNER or General Manager. No one else has the authority to sort out your problem.
Explain you are rejecting the vehicle, and then give him the opportunity to talk you out of it. He will not want a registered MH in stock. 
Good Luck.
Regards
Tel


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Like the previous thread detailed, it is very annoying when this happens. It has happened to us too but there is not much you can do about it. Do you walk away from the deal? That would be an over-reaction. Therefore, you just have to count to 10 and try to make the most of a bad situation. Is there any compensation available, perhaps a voucher for their shop, if they have one.

Life is too short to be sending your blood pressure sky high. Good luck, Speedyone, and I hope you get sorted out quickly. 

Tim


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

tel999 said:


> Hi Speedyone
> I have over 40 years in the motor trade and will confirm one thing.
> Mr Nice Guy will get screwed, I will not go into examples unless you ask, but there are many.
> If I had your problems the only person to talk to is the OWNER or General Manager. No one else has the authority to sort out your problem.
> ...


Speedyone has a warning light on the dash which has ilumminated not that the van has been crunched, fell apart, water pouring into the engine bay. It has an electrical fault. To reject a vehicle for this one snag is a lot OTT.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

we have a 9 yr old coming home from school later ... try explaining to him why it's not on the drive !!!! 


Your pulling my leg. If thats the worst thing that happens in his life he's going to have a soft life. I just thank my lucky stars that i resisted the temptation to get involved in the motorhome business. 

This one sounds worse than the last one.


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

In the overall scheme of things this is not a big deal. It's not that unusual for a warning light to come on with a new vehicle. It should'nt happen but sometimes faults ocurr. 

During a career break, following serious illness, I worked part time for a main car dealer driving cars too and from a compound. Very occasionally you would get the odd electrical fault (including the EMS warning light) that was easy to resolve. 

Coincidentally, I picked up a brand new car last Saturday. By Thursday I found the ABS warning light on, the Speedo did'nt work and the rev counter was erratic.

The fault was diagnosed on Friday to a faulty wiring plug which is being fixed tomorrow. A bit of a hassle but I'm not getting worked up over it.


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## vardy (Sep 1, 2006)

-Last lease car I had, airbag light stayed on. Finally 8 (no exaggeration) visits later they 'fixed' it. However, after 18 months, same problem.
I asked for their owner records eventually over another matter, and found that it had had a repaired front end shunt at their garage Fair amount of work involved. Some sort of sensor behind the bumper had been damaged and remained so.
I think all the comments are supportive and very valid - Need a controlled combination of niceness/firmness/tenacity and patience.
If all fails smack 'em with the dummy!!!


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Well ... thanks all to your comments ... some of them positive ( with us ) some against us ?? 

Takes all sorts ... thats what makes the world go around! 

Just may take a wee 'shot' at you ... dollaryen ...for your cutting comments ! My 9 yr old means the world to my wife and I .... to see him upset also upsets us. You may or may not be fortunate enough to have children ... I value my sons feelings !! As for a soft touch ... having spent 12 years of my life ( Paras + other units ) soft doesn't come into it .... but down right caring about my kid does !!!! 

Also ...gelathae... I notice you say you picked up a new car last Saturday ... sure you would be a little more understanding of our problem had your car NOT been ready when you expected ... then told various tales by the dealer !!! MMMMM ... 

Rant over ! 

Back to the M/Home issue ... turns out we have been led down the path by our dealer ... instead of telling us the truth about the problem ... we caught them out ( un-intentionally ) by phoning the Fiat dealer direct. Turns out it was booked in for this afternoon one day LAST week. So the dealer clearly knew about this problem last week .... told us it was going in this morning etc was not true. Also Swift have just phoned us back, turns out the dealer has said to them it will be available for us to pick up Wednesday .... News to us !!!!!! 

To end this thread ... if the dealer had phoned & told us the truth in the 1st place ... whilst disappointing ... we could have re scheduled our collection date & not taken time off work etc. 

It's Ok the replies who have, in some circumstances slated us & slagged us down for being a little upset over the dealings with this, but we have spent a hell of a lot of money on this M/Home & expected it to be a little better handled than it has thus far .......... I wonder who would be moaning if the shoe was on the other foot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good day

Mark from Hereford


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Mark

You are entitled to have a rant and it is a good way to let off steam. There will always be people who "have a pop" but as I have said in previous posts, everyone is different, with different life experiences and expectancies. Our lives and responses are shaped by what we have seen and been through. Therefore, no-one should berate you too much for being upset and angry. Personally, I let things go straight over my head, but that's just the way I am. Keep your pecker up. You will love your new van, when you finally get it.

Tim


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Speedyone said:


> if the dealer had phoned & told us the truth in the 1st place ... whilst disappointing ... we could have re scheduled our collection date & not taken time off work etc.


How true. I learned this lesson sme years ago, when dealing with the sale of large, complicated machine tools. They (the dealer) should be brave, stand up, and say "sorry - this is what we're doing to fix it, and this is how we're going to make up for it." For some time, I've thought that motorhome purchasers have been given a very rough deal by some dealers - for whom the motorhome is a commodity, and a means of paying the bills this month, but for the purchaser, it is a very serious investment, in both financial and emotional terms.



Speedyone said:


> To end this thread ...


 :lol: :lol: You'll be lucky! :wink:

Gerald


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

Mark, I don't think anyone would question that your son is important to you, certainly I did not mean to imply that, it's more of a case of how you handle this, if you are convinced he will be upset, surely he will be, and if you play it down, will he care?

Getting back to the issue, as I say, I would have been really upset if my motorhome was not ready in time, but to seriously think about rejecting it for a fault with a light in the dash, is a massive over reaction IMHO.

Like I said, how will your boy be if you tell him you are not getting it now instead of just a couple of days delay?

Kev


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

tel999 said:


> Hi Speedyone
> I have over 40 years in the motor trade and will confirm one thing.
> Mr Nice Guy will get screwed, I will not go into examples unless you ask, but there are many.
> If I had your problems the only person to talk to is the OWNER or General Manager. No one else has the authority to sort out your problem.
> ...


I can't match your time served, only 25 years for me, but I can certainly disagree with your comment. Mr Nice Guy might get screwed, but for me, I will go way out of my way to help most Mr Nice Guy's

I will however screw Mr "lets cancel the deal at the first little issue" everytime, as I would take the view if this guy is gonna cancel and slag me off on a public web site anyway, there is no point helping him out.

This is NOT a pop at Mark BTW, just a general point more related to the motor trade.

What makes you think the dealer has registered the motorhome?

Would be good to alert the dealer to this thread and see if they want to put their side?

Kev


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## some-where-in-oxford (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi Mark,

You have had some good advice here, it would be worth waiting to hear what the Fiat main dealership says when they check the vehicle.

An engine management light does not always mean serious problems, I have had this light, on and off, on my car since late last year. It went in for a service last week and they fitted a new CO2 sensor and problem has now gone.


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

Why is there a little voice in the back of my mind saying "what do you expect, it's a fiat".


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks all .... well aware no one really is having a dig at us.

We did at the beginning of this thread, ask for serious advice from you all.

This you have clearly done... thank you ... the positive & negative ... taken time to reflect on your comments & have realised the ' rejecting the van' was a little OTT and premature to say the least !

It wasn't the problem now that worried us, it is the future in say 3 mnths time when we are still having problems. We are well aware of the warranty etc but this doesn't help us when we are going somewhere then it's back in the dealers ... yet again ... sure you can understand !

And yes, you are correct, Ben our lad is happily over the field playing football with his mates, none the wiser re the M/Home ... again ... my concern may be a little 'OTT' !!! LOL !!

Cheers All ... let you know once the M/Home is on the drive ... when ever it may be !


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

Speedyone said:


> Thanks all .... well aware no one really is having a dig at us.


Well, I think your stress rubbed off on some of us a bit, no offense was intended. Honest.

Any good news yet ?


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## chrisndeb (Feb 7, 2007)

DollarYen said:


> Why is there a little voice in the back of my mind saying "what do you expect, it's a fiat".


Hey "DollarYen" 
my FIAT is great 30,000 on the clock drives great starts great plenty of power 22/30 to the gallon depending on right foot.


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

Speedyone you are not alone!
As I pointed out in a previous reply our 3 month old Autocruise is sat (yet again) at the dealers!!!!!
Autocruise inform me they are discussing the course of action to take to repair it and will get back to me......................but they cannot say when they will have come to a conclusion!
So I am going to have a glass of wine and see what tomorrow brings!
I am cross at the fact it is yet again at the dealers but there is no point in tearing my hair out as they work at their own pace!


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## 105514 (Jun 30, 2007)

Mark
Can I throw a spanner in the works?(sorry for the pun)

If any electricial work has been carried out to the Fiat side of your van at a Non dealer ie fitting a after market cruise control this can change all sorts of readings/resistances etc and can cause the EMS light to stay on.
Usually once the dealer has connected up his diagnostic programming equipment they can 1.clear the fault code and 2. tell the system that a cruise control system is now fitted.
I am saddened to read that you have not been told the whole truth by the dealer (bad choice)
I can't stress enough how important it is to remain calm and respectful to your or any other dealer when you have a problem.Everyone at the dealer does not want or need this sort of issue on their plate and by ranting and raving will only get their backs up and I tell you the staff will remember you at your next visit.Far better they remember you for being the calm respectful guy.You will get a lot more and better service in the future. :lol: 
Regards


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Hi Mark

I hope you manage to get your van sorted.

This subject always brings up the 'should I buy new or pre-owned' argument.

We have always bought secondhand as IMO you get better value for money( major problems ironed out & all the extras added etc). My parents have bought new with their last two MHs. They have had problems with their vehicles(some involving recalls) & we have had problems with ours...the only difference being that we have spare cash in the kitty to put the van right(Depreciation on a new van is huge in the first couple of years!!)

ALL MHs have or develop faults at some point. Buying a new one doesn't protect you from that I'm afraid. Whichever route you choose(new or used) be prepared for some disappointment....life can be like that  

Good luck getting it sorted  

BTW....you didn't mention who the dealer is?


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi all ... well to finalize this sad story ... we ended up parting contract with the dealer yesterday.

After a somewhat heated conversion on the phone the Manager asked what can be done next, when I asked 'What do you mean' ? The reply .... ''Well, I am prepared to refund your deposit & cancel the order'' !!!!!

No matter how much we had tried to stay on side & point out the various communication errors, he would still not listen to us ! The lies went on & on, the lack of reply phone calls carried on .... and to add insult to injury .... the problem is with the Fiat wiring loom so a new loom has to be fitted ( as if I really believe this )... on a brand new, not yet handed over Bessacarr !!!!! Then to beat all this, tried to contact the customer service manager, CEO etc to try to resolve this ... but not one e.mail / phone call back.

I will not mention the dealer but if you are interested, please feel free to PM me ... I will be more than happy to let you know. 

What we believe is they have someone else who has ordered a Bessecarr E795 for a delivery later this spring / summer ... who will take delivery of this vehicle once all repairs are carried out .. and be none the wiser !!!
So, if you have ordered a new Bessacarr E795, and want the registration / VIN number then please feel free to PM me .... I will be more than happy to let you have it !!!!!

As for M/Homing .... well that is it for us ! Been caravaning for many years before briefly attempting to M/Home, always been treated very well when buying new caravans, any problems always sorted out, but this has put us off dealers of M/Homes for life ! 
Will now try the luxury side of things, hotels / bed n breakfast etc .... but still do the odd weekend away with the 'ol tent ' !!! LOL!

Cheers all and thanks for your advice and comments

Best wishes

Mark, Nicky & Ben from Hereford

Oh! by the way .. having spoken to Fiat, the problem was the bulb failure light staying on & NOT the engine management light !! Surely the dealer knew the difference ... but then again ... perhaps not judging by our treatment !!!!!


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Mark

I reckon you made the right choice in parting with the dealer if you felt that the relationship had broken down to that extent.

Not so sure about your decision to give up on MHing based on one dissappointing experience? Were you ever really convinced that you wanted to defect from the caravanning camp?

Good luck anyway & enjoy your touring in whatever unit you finally settle on


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## MaxandPaddy (Mar 18, 2006)

So sorry Mark that your story has ended up leaving you feeling totally disillusioned with Motorhoming.
Please don't throw the towel in just yet,perhaps it might be an idea to look at buying privately or a nearly new from another dealer?
We bought our first Motorhome from a private sale,it was only 8 months old and it was fine!
As I keep banging on our 3month old Motorhome is in the dealership (again!) and it is driving me crazy but the rewards outweigh the niggles of having to get the faults repaired and it will all be put right in the near future.
I do know exactly how you feel,unfortunately there seems to be a lack of good old fashioned customer service at some dealerships and the lack of empathy from them just makes you feel as if you do not want to spend your hard earned cash with them!
So please don't be put off Motorhoming for life,put this down to a bad experience and don't let it spoil what could be potentially a fantastic way of spending your leisure time with your family
I am sure others on here will agree,it is worth the hassle .......honest!

Val


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Speedyone said:


> Hi all ... well to finalize this sad story ... we ended up parting contract with the dealer yesterday.
> 
> As for M/Homing .... well that is it for us ! Been caravaning for many years before briefly attempting to M/Home, always been treated very well when buying new caravans, any problems always sorted out, but this has put us off dealers of M/Homes for life !
> 
> That is sad. Why don't you get in touch with John's Cross motorhomes and see what they can do for you with a Bessacar. They have had very good feedback and Swift support is excellent.


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

This is sad. You really shouldn't make snap decisions like this :roll:

It seems from the Swift's price list that you were paying something over £50k for this van (list price). What about looking elsewhere before you hightail it back to caravans? There are a huge range of quality motorhomes for under that budget. We paid £38k for ours, new, including a number of options, and although it's not the same payout as yours, it's a brilliant van, a good dealer, with NO FAULTS on pickup (apart from the water ingress thing, but we knew all about that before we bought it).

There's some excellent motorhomes, not just from Chausson :wink: but from Adria, Hymer, Knaus, Burstner (and yes, cabby, Fleurette :lol: ). Seriously, you should have a look at some before you say "that's it".

But in the end, it's your decision.

Gerald


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Mark

We too had a bad dealer experience which put us off of dealing with a trader again.

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopict-34795-.html.

We sold our van to a dealership & bought privately. We are dead chuffed with our 'new' van & looking back now, it was worth all the hassle. Take some time to consider your decision before you give up completely :wink:


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Sorry Gerald ... it wasn't a 'snap-decision' ! The relationship between ourselves & the dealer was just beyond repair ... I know the dealing Manager knew this as well!! To be honest, I was very surprised at how quick the decision was made by him to cancel the contract & offer our deposit back making me think this decision had already been made higher up the ladder ' !!!

Please don't think we have been a pain in the neck to this dealer, all we have ever asked for is communication back to us over relevant questions & this has just NOT happened really since a few weeks after our original order in September.

Just to add to this whilst I am writing, the Manager has just phoned me to take credit card details to refund our deposit. I phoned this morning 1st thing, he has just turned into work because of other commitments and he has phoned me straight away ! WHY Oh WHY couldn't he / other staff within the company have done this all the time ... communication is vital to keep people happy .... OOOhhhh it really does make me SOOO angry that it has actually been done correct on our parting telephone conversation !!

Sorry to any one else trying to convert us ... we really have been knocked back by this and for the next 12 - 24 mnths at least .... will have no interest in wasting our time the way we have over the past 6 mnths.

Sure you can well understand why !!!!!!!!!!

Please don't think we have put this thread up to try to get your sympathy ... we really wanted to try to get advice on how to save loosing the home ... but in the end ... all the factors on both sides of the sale ... contributed to an ending which to be honest, was unavoidable, and we strongly feel to have carried on with the sale would have been tantamount to committing suicide!!! Try returning to the dealer with a problem after all this having driven the M/Home off their premisses ... me thinks not !!

Bye all :lol:


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

Please don't think we have been a pain in the neck to this dealer, all we have ever asked for is communication back to us over relevant questions & this has just NOT happened really since a few weeks after our original order in September.


What, 3 emails a day ?. I think they are probably glad to see the back of you. With the fall in the value of the pound they can probably sell your van to someone else at a better price.


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

DollarYen said:


> Please don't think we have been a pain in the neck to this dealer, all we have ever asked for is communication back to us over relevant questions & this has just NOT happened really since a few weeks after our original order in September.
> 
> What, 3 emails a day ?. I think they are probably glad to see the back of you. With the fall in the value of the pound they can probably sell your van to someone else at a better price.


If that really is the case, then it is no wonder that many buyers have NO confidence in MH traders anymore.....what about putting the customer first :roll:


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

DollarYen said:


> Please don't think we have been a pain in the neck to this dealer, all we have ever asked for is communication back to us over relevant questions & this has just NOT happened really since a few weeks after our original order in September.
> 
> What, 3 emails a day ?. I think they are probably glad to see the back of you. With the fall in the value of the pound they can probably sell your van to someone else at a better price.


I think you are on about someone else DY hey you might have to apologise


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

If it's not the one who was going to be physically sick but the one with the cruise control i maybe have got mixed up. Still think there both way OTT.


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## Waleem (Nov 1, 2006)

I don't really understand why the dealer's name should not be mentioned-I think that name and shame (Or indeed praise, where due) is an excellent idea! It may even prompt said dealer to improve their communication thus benefitting future buyers.


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Sorry to have to do this .. but hey .. after the week we have had ... here goes ... Aimed right between your eyes ''Dollaryen'' ..

You really are an idiot. Almost have come to the realisation you must be one of the total prats who work for this sorry crowd who call themselves a 'motorhome company' ! Every answer you have put has been detrimental to us and derogatory ..... 

We have been nothing but patient & extremely polite with the way we have tried to handle the dealer ... at no time has any threatening or bad language been used ... and all you can do is slag us off .... tried to put as unbiased an opinion on here and tell the TRUTH ( un like our dealer ) I really am of the opinion you have nothing better to do & would be interesting to find out which dealer you are / work for ... reading other threads you have commented on ... Ah! can't be bothered with the low like life of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh! & one other thing .... not sure where you get the '3 emails a day from' ... but we have NEVER sent an e.mail to them ( apart from yesterday to confirm cancelation ! )Oh thats right ... it was on another thread where you also slagged the person who started that thread off .... appears all you are good for is putting your negative pennies worth in to any thread you can read ... 

Good day ... sorry excuse for a person !! Hope the same happens to you in the near future .....


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

All this over a bulb failure light. Unbelievable. 

I think this rather excitable chap must be a top contender for the customer from hell award.


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

DollarYen said:


> All this over a bulb failure light. Unbelievable.
> 
> I think this rather excitable chap must be a top contender for the customer from hell award.


DY

I rather think you are stirring the cauldron now!

The guy has had enough misery without you adding to it   :wink:


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## 106986 (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Speedyone

I am really sorry to hear about your problems with your dealer and more sorry that you are giving up on motorhoming.

Over the last 6 months we have sold a caravan and 2 cars and bought a motorhome and 2 cars! Not one of the transactions has gone smoothly. 

We had booked a weekend away for our eldest's 10th birthday last October on the basis that we would have our motorhome. It was looking very unlikely that we'd have it in time, and I too was very worried about upsetting our him (particularly for his birthday), but children too have to learn to deal with disappointment. We got lucky and we picked our motorhome up on time. We also had the engine warning light on for the majority of the early journeys we did, but after a trip to the local Fiat dealer for a few recalls all is now well. 

Sometimes the best things are worth fighting for and if you want something badly enough, you'll stick at it. Many times over the last six months have i said to my husband "stuff it, lets forget about it, stick with what we've got" but after a couple of glasses of wine, I calm down and all looks different the next day! I very nearly didn't end up buying my beloved pink beetle convertible, but picked it up a couple of weeks ago, all is well and all the bad stuff gone and forgotten about.

We too were caravanners until the end of last summer. I loved my caravan holidays but it had become very hard work. Since buying our motorhome we have had numerous weekends away, days out at the coast with the dogs, been to a German xmas market and recently got back from skiing in the French alps none of which we would/could have done with our caravan. I would not change back to caravanning for anything!!!

If I were you I would stick 2 fingers up at the dealer and the people who have slagged you off on here. Find another reputable dealer and re-order your van. Believe me it will be well worth it in the end.

Good luck!
Kirst


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

To reply to the ' all over a bulb failure ' above ( DollarYen ... again ! ) .... if that was all it was then the Bessacarr would be sat on the drive .... numpty ! Try going back to the begining of my thread and see ALL the problems added up ... take your time and ask for help if you need it explaining to you!

Perhaps you should engage you brain before you comment ... Oh! thats right ... you haven't got one have you !!!!!

Oh! and thank you for your kind comments Kirst ... with that I shall cease my comments on this thread as certain people appear hell bent on knocking us .... just popped out this morning and ordered a new BMW 320i M Sport touring in blue to ease the problem.... Ah! suddenly feeling a whole lot better. And as for the salesman .... nice as pie !!!!

TaTa all


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

Speedyone said:


> To reply to the ' all over a bulb failure ' above ( DollarYen ... again ! ) .... if that was all it was then the Bessacarr would be sat on the drive .... numpty ! Try going back to the begining of my thread and see ALL the problems added up ... take your time and ask for help if you need it explaining to you!
> 
> Perhaps you should engage you brain before you comment ... Oh! thats right ... you haven't got one have you !!!!!
> 
> ...


Glad you are feeling better  You have a PM!!!


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

Sorry to hear it all end like this, very sad.

I really do think you owe it to all of us that bothered to post sensible comments to name the dealer?

Would be best in the Company Reports forum I would have thought, and would help everyone here avoid the company.

Kev


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

kevwright said:


> Sorry to hear it all end like this, very sad.
> 
> I really do think you owe it to all of us that bothered to post sensible comments to name the dealer?
> 
> ...


I agree, but Speedy doesn't want to 'Name & Shame' them. Maybe he's waiting for the refund to hit his bank account first :wink:


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## 108370 (Nov 20, 2007)

I have only just read through this thread and I am quite surprised how angry some have become :? 

It seems to that there was a problem which the dealer did not sort out properly ( If at all).

It all seems that the purchasers really were unsure about wanting this van. I say this because this issue , despite it being an irritant is really rather trivial.

The dealer would have sorted the problem , he would had no choice , a contract was in place.

The warranty would be in place and covered the van and work done by the Fiat dealer.

A note could have been exchanged to cover the after market Cruise control, which I can assure you is a simple device.

As has been stated modern car electrics are complicated and adding something can cause issues elsewhere.

I had terrible problems with a tow bar on a Mercedes BUT it was sorted even if it took three visits by the installer to my home to resolve it.

I also think the dealer had a buyer in hand for you van. No dealer wants to mess up a sale at this time of year if he can avoid it.

Sorry but you should have stayed with it and I guess by now you would have been happily enjoying your purchase.

Time is a great healer and this matters are soon forgotten.


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

I have little interest in any tale on this or any other forum, when people who by nature of web sites identities are hidden and are not prepared to name names.

By naming a name it allows for the "name" to put his/her side of the story, and it gives greater confidence that the tale told is an accurate account of the situation, for fear of being shot down. Also and probably more importantly it may stop some one else falling foul and ending up in the same situation.

By soliciting sympathy from members, but not naming the dealer to protect others it seems selfish.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

eddievanbitz said:


> I have little interest in any tale on this or any other forum, when people who by nature of web sites identities are hidden and are not prepared to name names.
> 
> By naming a name it allows for the "name" to put his/her side of the story, and it gives greater confidence that the tale told is an accurate account of the situation, for fear of being shot down. Also and probably more importantly it may stop some one else falling foul and ending up in the same situation.
> 
> By soliciting sympathy from members, but not naming the dealer to protect others it seems selfish.


Naming names also authenticates the tale of woe.

I'm making absolutely no accusations in this case, but there have been some very elaborate wind-ups in the past which have cost helpful forum members a lot of time and effort - only to discover after a long running thread that it was all a sick joke.

As I say, no accusations here, but I think a name would be appreciated by a number of those who helped - and others who may wish to avoid this particular dealer.

This of course assumes that the argument has been completely equivocal - and again, no accusations but . . .


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

just popped out this morning and ordered a new BMW 320i M Sport touring in blue to ease the problem.... 

Confirmation i think of my view of this chap. Ladies and gentlemen i rest my case.


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## Wytonknaus (Jun 18, 2007)

Removed my post after thinking about it and reading pricey007 swift post about his dealer.


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## chrisgreen (Jan 13, 2008)

i\ would love to hear the dealers side of this sorry tale?


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

Searching for Speedyone's other posts on here, it looks like (not 100% sure) its Marquis of Tewkesbury.

I have ot admit, when I saw the comment about "popping out" to order a BMW, I did think, "ah, a wind up", although now looking at his other threads, that seems most unlikely.

It does make one wonder what got cancelled in order to order the Motorhome ;-)


Kev


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

Yes it was clear to me that this was not a wind up whatever DollarYen says. This guy has been asking questions about his intended purchase on here since November and even sang the praises of the sales staff.

Still we all know that selling and delivering what was bought are two different skills


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Ok ... to all you 'NON' believers ... I will name them ! I tried to cover this by saying I would mention them via an e.mail privately but some are not happy with this and want this so here goes .....

I really don't want to as this will only open a can of worms for people who have, I am sure, a good experience of our branch & others within the dealership.

However, this thread is about OUR own experience and to people who don't think we are telling the truth I will give just some of the examples of the incompetent's & rudeness off this dealership ! But after having several private PM,s mentioning the same company / other branches & being treated the same or worse, I am now willing to name if not shame.

The company is Marquis and the branch is Tewkesbury. Our salesman was Jonathan & the Manager is Justin.

To start with everything was great, very friendly atmosphere, so unlike Brownhills who we found very pushy, we chose to place the order through them last September.

Obviously once we left we had a few extra questions to ask once we had time to think. So we phoned up about, 1. Cruise ... 2. Upholstery ... 3. Factory Tow bar. This was over several weeks not all at once ... it culminated in the tow bar question. Jonathan clearly stated it was not possible to change the order ( he thought !! ) but when I nudged him that I had spoken to Swift .. he said ' OH ! Ok ' Left it with him to confirm order .. gave him my e.mail as well ... 1 week later still no reply. We wanted the tow bar so what do we do to confirm. Left a message for him to confirm ... still no answer. 

Ok ... we popped up to the show at the NEC, came across Alan Buckwell from Marquis ( MD !! ) asked & did NOT complain why no answer ... told us he would sort it out. It took a week or so because of the show but he eventualy left a message on our phone to say all was done. This was NOT anyone from my branch by the way.

Left it til mid November then had a question about finance. Phoned Chris Archer from the finance department & explained our question ... told us he would get back ... didn't! Waited over the wkend ... still no phone call ... left a message on his answer phone ... still no reply. So started a thread on here about the problem and through advice from you contacted Mike Crouch via e.mail. Things happened & appologies came in thick n fast from everywhere !

Now, left any contact til Friday 4th Jan ( and some say we pestered them !!! ) phoned Justin at Tewkesbury ... asked re delivery date. Said he would phone back Monday, didn't ... we phoned Tuesday. Told they would let us know a date as soon as they knew.

Contacted Swift ( can't fault their customer service ... excellent ! ) asked myself re date, told a few days later from Kath Powell our delivery date. She then confirmed a few days later when the home was on the lorry. Still no contact from dealer. Left a few days so they had time to realise they had it, take into account it is only a small branch !!! Eventualy we phoned them and were then told " Oh! you M/Home is in" !!!!

Phew ... comin up for air !

Organised an appointment to sort finance out ( this had not been done yet ... not due to us ! ) & agreed a date of Monday 4th Feb at 10.am. Nicky my wife took the morning off work so we left Hereford in good time to be at Tewkesbury for 09.45 ( approx 50 min journey )

After sitting listening to Justins snowboard exploits, house flooding problems etc we put some points we had written down we wanted carried out / checked ( alarm changes, bike rack change etc etc ) things generally that could have been done over the phone. Now came the crunch ... Justin explained he was NOT FSA trained, Jonathan was off & Steve Riggs who is the finance manager had not turned up !!!! He phoned Steve who was stuck in traffic ( ??????????? )... this was at 10.45 & said he will be an hour or so. As we had to be back in Hereford for 13.00 we left at 11.00 no further knowing if we could get finance or not ! Take into account we had agreed a finance appointment with Justin for 10 am !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to go on .. you lot asked for it !

After several days and no call ... I phoned the branch ... still no answer. Now about the 10th Feb, due to pick up M/Home 03 March .... little worried so contacted Steve at his office. Things started to move but heard nothing for a few days so phoned him again ... no answer ... so left a message to call us. Didn't ! Phoned again then asked by Steve to supply 3 mnth Bank statements. This I did via special next day delivery & asked him to let me know as soon as he took delivery. Checked at 14.00 next day via Royal Mail & item had been delivered that morning ... so ... phoned Steve ... apologetic he had not phoned but said he had rx'ed them & will fax to Bank of Scotland & send back same day ... this he did. 

Ok, weekend went by .... Monday ... Tuesday .... Wednesday .... Thursday ...call in the afternoon to be told they have LOST our bank statements faxed over to the bank ( MMM ID Fraud now to worry about ! ) .... reason for delay ...... and as copies were taken by the branch they will re send. !!! ( NO I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP !!! ) Phoned by Bank of Scotland about 16.25 to be offered the finance ... monthly payments were higher than expected but Ok. Steve phoned at 17.25 to tell us news ... told him about higher payments and he told us as we had been accepted by B of Scot ... he fired it a Lloyds Bank & they have the payments we originally agreed at point of sale!!!! 

So ... left it til Wednesday 27th til we contacted Tewkesbury & asked to come over & sign docs ready for collection of M/Home Monday ... this I did but whilst looking at M/Home on site it was apparent all the wiring was open around the dash. The electrical guy ( Martyn ) was there so spoke to him & he said it was just finishing off the alarm. So left happy all was ready for collection Monday.

Nicky had by the way, booked Monday of WITHOUT pay as she had no holidays left.

Took my son to football Saturday morning, arrived home about 11.45 to meet Nicky on our doorstep looking ashen white. As her Grandad is unwell I feared the worse but then was told ... "we can't pick up on Monday ... management light come on" !

As I own a Benelli TRE sportsbike, the weather was dry, I decided to 'pop' over to Tewkesbury to find out face to face the problem ( Don't like sorting thing out via tel ) so asked Jonathan to a private conversation to clear the air as my 'complaint' last year re the tow bar appeared to have soared the salesman / customer relationship. We both had points, the air was cleared & was told they had only had the problem when they moved the home Saturday morning for cleaning. He assured me it will go to Fiat Gloucester 1st thing Monday, probably a 're-boot' and back by 11. Left feeling confident air was cleared & things all Ok.

Monday heard nothing so being a little excited phoned up early at 10.30 ... to be told by Justin .... '' No chance of M/Home .... going in as we speak'' ! I mentioned '1st thing NOT being midday ... told he knew nothing about it as he had been in Sweden Thurs / Fri at a funeral '' !!

Plot thickens ... I decided to phone Fiat direct to find out the problem ... was then told by their sevice dept the M/Home had been booked in LAST WEEK for Monday AFTERNOON. I then phoned Justin who assured me he would get back in the next 10 mins .... 3 hrs later & at 17.25 he phoned to say '' Only just been able to get hold of Fiat, on the diagnostic machine now & will phone you by 10 am tomorrow''! ( Tues ) I can pick up the phone at ANY time and get through ... strange it takes him 3 hrs !

10.30 came ... so at 11.00 decided to phone Peter at Fiat who explained the M/Home came in on Monday around 13.00 into there compound to be processed Tuesday afternoon to find out the problem. He also mentioned Dave ( workshop Manager ) was currently 'Booking' home in. Nicky then phoned Justin to ask what / why no call at 10.am to be met by a load of lies ... she stopped him mid flow to explain we had been onto Fiat and had been told the above ... the line went VERY quiet !!! Told us he would phone back in 15 mins.

Now being really peaved off I decided to phone the main Marquis HQ at Southampton to speak to Alan Doherty direct. Spoke to Sharron Fernns ( PA to GM ) who tried his line but '' sorry ... it's busy ... I will get him to phone you ASAP though'' ! By the way .. we had sent an e.mail to Mike Crouch earlier to ask to phone us ASAP.

Now .... some 3 or 4 hrs later ( NOT 15 mins ) Justin phoned me to say Fiat will have an answer Thursday afternoon ( this being Tuesday ) in his words '' It is NOT something we have done'' ! ( meaning fitment of alarm etc ) of what he was really pleased. He said it was a wiring loom fault, the whole loom has to replaced & he will let us Know Thursday afternoon when it will be able to be done. This is on a Brand new £50,000.00 M/Home we were expected to take delivery of !

I NOW hit the bloody roof ( having stayed calm and polite and rational over the past few months ! ) and lost it with Justin demanding to know when the hell we could eventualy have the M/Home ? I also explained we have holidays booked with the home etc but all to no avail. The 15 min conversation ended in him saying '' Well Mr Shaw ... where can we go from here'' ? When I asked 'What do you mean ' his reply .... ''I am prepared on this occasion to cancel the order & refund your deposit'' ! Totally gobsmacked my relpy .... ' Fine .. do it ' .... phone slammed down by me !

Ok ... I am near the end of the thread now ..... it ended with Nicky being upset ... me VERY angry over our treatment ... & hopefully our deposit back yesterday.

I really am sorry to have put such a long somewhat boring explanation of our experience with buying a M/Home .. all the above is 100% true ( I am not on here 'making this up for attention' as someone has mentioned ! ) I work 12 1/2 hr night shifts & have stayed up to write this ... I am very tired due to work & past few days disappointments but am determined to get across to some very harsh commented people on here that we have NEVER been pushy, have tried our best to let things sort themselves out but in the end it was just not going to happen. 

The relationship between Marquis Tewkesbury & us had all but gone, there was no way we wanted the M/Home now so in a way ... they answered our prayers by offering our deposit back. We are almost certain if we had asked to cancel ourselves ( something Justin was obviously pushing for ) then we would not have had our deposit returned . Also very surprised a branch manager had the authority to cancel an order so quickly ... me thinks Mr Doherty may be lurking in this story somewhere ! 

To sum this all up ... if the above is our fault ...what the heck! We have purchased 2 new caravans & 3 new cars over the past 5 or 6 yrs and NEVER been treated this way! We have had a terrible experience ... we started this thread for general advice to ask what to do next & in the end things took there own journey. On deep reflection we are now glad this happened, had we taken delivery & needed to go back with a problem ... despite what Justin / Jonathan said re '' no hard feelings held to any customers '' we are sure there would have been ... and judging by some PM's from other readers exactly the same has happened to them at OTHER Marquis branches.

We are not a stupid couple, very sensible in fact ! We are well aware things go wrong with vehicles, but if they had told the truth instead of telling 'white - lies ' and been up front & honest, whilst being severely disappointed of having to have to wait, we would have done! Problem was in the end the lies, the other things in the past & generally very bad comms has made us happy this has ended the way it did.

As for the new BMW .( Sorry KevWright re your comment, we are comfortably off .. not rich ... so didn't need to cancel anything in ''order to order the M/Home'' in your words ! LOL !! ) .. wife has an 06 1 series ... decided to swap for a 3 series tourer as this will be our new 'Holiday Home' .... taking Nicky, Ben, Poppy ( our black Lab ) & myself away on hols .............. TaTa 

Please remember ... this is OUR story of treatment by Marquis Motorhomes ... we are sure they have very many happy customers. Also please take note ... this is NOT a personnel dig at Jonathan / Justin or Marquis ... I am more than capable of sorting problems face to face .. this is here so I hope they / Marquis may take note ... make the effort to change and reap the obvious rewards. I am a little concerned that they do have the MMM award for good customer dealership 2008 .... mind boggles !!! LOL !!!


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## rowley (May 14, 2005)

Speedyone, that is terrible. Now we can understand why you were so irate. Why don't you think again and stay in the fraternity? I am sure a Dealer like John's Cross would give you a much more pleasant buying experience.
I am really sorry about your present experience.

Odd that a loom fault should only show up after the alarm fit though???


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## 107990 (Oct 30, 2007)

Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me.


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## some-where-in-oxford (Apr 18, 2006)

When you order a new motorhome only to find all of the above things to go wrong, it would take a lot of faith in another dealer to want to place another order.

Hopefully such a dealer will be found and Speedyone will one day have a motorhome that he is happy with and able to go away with his family and have a relaxing break, after all we all buy motorhomes to get away from everyday stress and be able to unwind.

Wish you luck for the future mate, hope our paths cross one day.


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

'When you order a new motorhome only to find all of the above things to go wrong, it would take a lot of faith in another dealer to want to place another order'.

This is the crux of the matter. When we recently had a very bad experience with a dealer, it did not put us off MHing....it just made us wary of buying from a dealer. When they feed you a pack of lies you become disillusioned & unable to trust them. It is a real shame that Speedy has given up on MHing but totally understandable given the circumstances.

Sounds like a few apologies might be required from some on here?


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## 107925 (Oct 27, 2007)

Speedyone, reading your tale of woe, I felt myself getting angry at them after the first paragraph. I can see that there wasn't any one major factor - more a series of smaller issues - the drip-drip factor ending with the straw that breaks the camel's back. I have a brother who uses phrases, like 'I'll get back to you in a minute" and it turns out to be the next week. Some people dealing with customers use such expressions just to get you off the phone and hope you don't take them literally. They just don't seem to understand that we make arrangements to tie in with their off-the-cuff, elastic promises, then think we're grumpy sods when we complain.

Unfortunately, I believe you landed yourself with numerous people who have the annoying habit of 'I'll call you back in 10 minutes', but the moment they've put the phone down, they've moved onto something else. They just have a complete lack of respect for your time and commitments.

But, as has been mentioned, this is not the norm. I've just bought a motorhome and the boss couldn't have been more reliable or respectful of my time. He emailed and rang whenever he thought it appropriate, from the moment I showed interest in the van, to the point of handover. But, this shouldn't really come as a surprise; that's what he's in business for - and I'm the same with my business. 

If you give up now, you've let the bastards grind you down; they've won and you've lost. 

Shaun


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

......and the alternative Speedyone is to stick with it and I'm certainly not going to advocate that as a general rule for everybody I did stick with it and its taken me a long time to get everything ticketyboo see my blog >Danbury Woes<

best wishes for future motorhoming


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## Spacerunner (Mar 18, 2006)

Speedy's tale is a true reflection of the treatment I had from Marquis's Southampton branch. I've never known a trading company to tell such blatant lies and do nothing to make a customer's purchasing experience a pleasant one. See my original report here.. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-156750.html#156750

Correct link inserted!.. :?


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## eddievanbitz (May 1, 2005)

Excellent post speedyone and thank you for the detailed information.


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## lindyloot (May 20, 2007)

Hi speedyone, ( we have been reading thread with interest before commenting)speaking to Rich my other half(we own our own garage business) You did the right thing. If the wiring loom is at fault it ought to be sent back to the maufacturer to put the new one in professionally, not a main agent. We certainly wouldn't want to take delivery of it ,as when it comes to vehicle electrics especially on todays vehicles it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack and who knows what other problems it will throw up. I would hate to be away and have to keep taking it in for repair. Pity the poor sod who buys it. 
Don't let this experience put you off Motorhoming not all dealers are like your experience. 
Lin


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

sallytrafic said:


> its taken me a long time to get everything ticketyboo see my blog


What a horrifying read. You did not put a warning "People of a nervous disposition must not read this blog". Expect to be sued.

Good grief - I don't know if you are a saint or a mug.

I'll bet you would have slung it back if you'd picked up a fraction of the problems at the beginning, but of course you would never suspect anything could be that badly made.

You've just announced that you'd like to re-design it, for goodness sake you already have.

I've done a lot of work on our Burstner A530, a computer/alarm, reversing sensor, added DIN power sockets and LEDs everywhere so I've been in all it's secret places and I've not found a single piece of bad design or workmanship. Well, if I must, the plastic skirt at the rear has a poor design overlapping joint.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

_A long read about this subject, and a very sorry tale indeed.
To try to lighten the mood a little(and please don't take any offence as none intended) have a laugh with this link - the sort of decent Dealer we all might like perhaps? *(Sir Peter's new car)*
_

Oh dear.

I missed all this, have I been Knighted at last for services to the MH industry? 

Peter

PS Speedyone,

As the deal was subject to finance, which appeared not to have been arranged or accepted from what you said, it was not enforceable and you could have walked away.

Very sorry to hear of all your troubles, if you ever decide to become a MH owner again, use an independent dealer near you next time where you can talk to the owners.


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Speedyone

If you are still reading posts on MHF, don't walk away. There are some decent dealers around. There are many on here that will help you find one you can trust. It seems a shame that you will not enjoy all the fun and adventure that a motorhome brings.

Anything we can do, let us know.

Tim


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

Quote from lindyloot 'Pity the poor sod who buys it'.


I bet any MHF members looking to buy a Bessacar E795 from Marquis will be PMing Speedyone(if he stays on here?) first to check the VIN number :wink: :wink:


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## 110402 (Mar 6, 2008)

As a newcomer, I'm sorry this has put me off the idea of M/H fullstop.

Dealers I can put up with, but this ............NO WAY

I understood this was a *helpfull Friendly *group, my money stays in my purse.


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## 108872 (Dec 26, 2007)

*marquis*

Hi,speedyone, just put my experience of buying with marquis twewksbury on forum yesterday, re swift.


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

SWMBO said:


> As a newcomer, I'm sorry this has put me off the idea of M/H fullstop.
> 
> Dealers I can put up with, but this ............NO WAY
> 
> I understood this was a *helpfull Friendly *group, my money stays in my purse.


We are a helpful and friendly group hence the reason we have over 21,000 members and the most hits of any motorhome forum. A forum reflects life in many ways and not everyone you meet will be the same, so it is here. Words are only that, words, they do not convey tone or facial expressions it is easy to misconstrue straight forward talking in a forum such as this as aggression, something I think you have done.
The people on this forum are the friendliest lot I have ever yet to meet and have helped me and countless others with their questions. If you are judging motorhomefacts by this thread alone then perhaps you are right motorhoming is not for you. We are much more than this thread.


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## kevwright (Oct 13, 2007)

Well, I can recognise certain elements of that tale of woe Speedyone, we had ordered our Tempo from Marquis in Ipswich, and had a similar (but not as bad) an experience as you, and ended up canceling and re ordering from Heart of England, whom I can recommend.

Best of luck


Kev


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*795*

Hi

What a saga all that turned out to be.

I just wonder if the 795 is now pre registered etc and so will be sold as a used 'van.

Russell


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

You're not interested, are you Russell?

You may be in for a bargain there. :lol: 

Tim


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

SWMBO said:


> As a newcomer, I'm sorry this has put me off the idea of M/H fullstop.
> 
> Dealers I can put up with, but this ............NO WAY
> 
> I understood this was a *helpfull Friendly *group, my money stays in my purse.


BYE


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## 97984 (Mar 5, 2006)

timbop37 said:


> You're not interested, are you Russell?
> 
> You may be in for a bargain there. :lol:
> 
> Tim


Don't touch it Russell...I can see problems 'looming' if you do :wink:


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

timbop37 said:


> You're not interested, are you Russell?
> You may be in for a bargain there. :lol:
> Tim


Hi Tim,

Russell drives on the wrong side of the road!

:roll:


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

androidGB said:


> BYE


Indeed :lol:

A little mod sleuthing has determined that SWMBO is posting from the same address as a subscribed member. Duplicate accounts are not allowed on MHF :: rules - duplicates ::

Gerald


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

cneate said:


> can see problems 'looming' if you do :wink:


Oh dear :lol: :lol:

I don't think we should make 'light' of this matter :wink:

Gerald


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

geraldandannie said:


> A little mod sleuthing has determined that SWMBO is posting from the same address as a subscribed member. Duplicate accounts are not allowed on MHF :: rules - duplicates ::
> 
> Gerald


Just as a matter of interest why ?

I've got my computer, 'er indoors has hers, it would be possible for us both to join unknown to the other. In fact I've seen Mr&Mrs chatting to one another in other places.


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## peejay (May 10, 2005)

"Just as a matter of interest, 'why?' "..... 

Probably because rules is rules :wink: .

Why would anyone want to go to the extreme of creating another account just to post something on here that they feel they can't say under their current nickname other than to create disharmony?

...and just in case no one knew, as a couple, two can subscribe for the price of one on MHF  

Keep up the good work mods  

pete


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## geraldandannie (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Brian

MotorhomeFacts has a policy of allowing 2 registered users (i.e. subscriber and spouse) for one subscription fee. There are numerous examples of this across the forums, and we're very happy to see it.

Unfortunately, we sometimes have little pixies amongst us, who enjoy 'stirring things up', who have a 'serious' membership, and then another username (or several usernames) under which they can make controversial posts. I have even seen the same person arguing with themselves under their different aliases :roll:

Normally, we wouldn't have cause to investigate, but sometimes the manner and tone of a post raises our eyebrows. In this case, we have a member who joins, and on the same day makes one post saying ... well, what they said. Unusual activity, to say the least. There were 2 reasons for my post:
1) to warn that user we were aware of what they were doing
2) and more importantly, to show the membership that perhaps the post wasn't to be taken too seriously.

So, to answer your question, there's no problem with users posting from the same location _per se_, but the creation of aliases to mess members about is not allowed.

Gerald

_Edit: i.e. as peejay said, but with more words :wink: _


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## clodhopper2006 (Aug 13, 2006)

geraldandannie said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> I have even seen the same person arguing with themselves under their different aliases :roll:
> 
> That is so weird! Why in gods name would they do that? I wonder if they do it in real life. It would be amusing to watch :lol:


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## timbop37 (Jun 28, 2006)

Gerald

I wonder if this issue with second aliases stems from problems experienced some time ago with another forum. That sort of behaviour seemed to exist at that time.
I hope it is not creeping back. This is a great forum and I hope it stays so.
There has been some threads lately that have caused disharmony amongst the ranks, and I'm talking about subject matter that should have provoked civil and sympathetic response.

Regards

Tim


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

clodhopper2006 said:


> geraldandannie said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Brian
> ...


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## 104586 (May 18, 2007)

kevwright said:


> Well, I can recognise certain elements of that tale of woe Speedyone, we had ordered our Tempo from Marquis in Ipswich, and had a similar (but not as bad) an experience as you, and ended up canceling and re ordering from Heart of England, whom I can recommend.
> 
> Best of luck
> Kev


It seems to me that the detail that speedyone has provided here does give credibility to the case that he has had a very bad dealer experience indeed, and one has to have sympathy for his plight.

We then we have some others adding weight to the now pronounced and established shaming of Marquis - who I understood to be an award winning company - presumably with many hundreds, or even thousands of well satisfied customers.

We all realise, I am sure, that things can and will certainly go wrong with large companies; having hit technical problems there may have been the usual problem of 'before we put a technician on to sort this, who is going to pay for his time?' sort of approach...is it a fault the dealer has caused, or a manufacturer fault to be corrected under a negotiated warranty etc etc, which will all take time. Or maybe a dealer fault that they might try to pass on to the Manufacture even...

Add the various many contacts at various levels in the company, (I wont bother replying now as so & so is now dealing' etc etc) and the fact that probably these company workers were dealing with similar teething problems or many repeated calls from many other customers at once and certainly misunderstandings will occur and will be bound to strain relationships.

Having said that, Speedyone had agreed to spend £50k, and like Sir Peter with his Rolls, is surely entitled to a better handling and more care - but he would be entitled to it even if he was spending £50.

Trouble is, for every Speedyone bad experience, for which liability which may even be admitted by the Company, there may be 20 or 50 other Customers who say their deal was fine and that they would shop again...

We just don't know.

It would be a better story to fully appreciate if we had evidence (or an apology) from Marquis.

Perhaps they wont get any more awards...


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

This might help all the stressed out MH buyers......






I'd like one in our MH.


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## 110418 (Mar 7, 2008)

OK lets cut through the crap here. I have worked on this vehicle and the truth is that the problem is a faulty ecu causing no power to the osf headlamp cluster. This has brought up the bulb out warning light not the engine management light. The VSS is also absent which means that the cruise control (fitted by me)will not operate. Fiat are awaiting a new ecu from Italy, apparently they are now chassis coded so it has to be the exact one. I believe that the dealer has offered to refund the customers deposit because they no longer want this customer due to all the abuse that he has delivered to them, some of it physical.
This whole thing has been expanded beyond all proportion and is totally irrational. People who spit their dummy at the slightest thing and then go on to slag off everybody who is working hard to resolve the issue are problem to us all.
Unfortunately it is a fact of life that as new vehicle technology develops so we have to face new problems and when the technology is so new that even the manufacturers are not aware of some of the problems then it is going to take a while to get things sorted. Having a paddy and libelling people without justificaction helps no-one.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

An interesting development from upspex! 8O 8O 8O


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*795*



cneate said:


> timbop37 said:
> 
> 
> > You're not interested, are you Russell?
> ...


Hi - I don't want it! I am just being a bit nosey. I like my silver sides and Speedferries graphics too much!

R


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*795*



upspex said:


> OK lets cut through the crap here. I have worked on this vehicle and the truth is that the problem is a faulty ecu causing no power to the osf headlamp cluster. This has brought up the bulb out warning light not the engine management light. The VSS is also absent which means that the cruise control (fitted by me)will not operate. Fiat are awaiting a new ecu from Italy, apparently they are now chassis coded so it has to be the exact one. I believe that the dealer has offered to refund the customers deposit because they no longer want this customer due to all the abuse that he has delivered to them, some of it physical.
> This whole thing has been expanded beyond all proportion and is totally irrational. People who spit their dummy at the slightest thing and then go on to slag off everybody who is working hard to resolve the issue are problem to us all.
> Unfortunately it is a fact of life that as new vehicle technology develops so we have to face new problems and when the technology is so new that even the manufacturers are not aware of some of the problems then it is going to take a while to get things sorted. Having a paddy and libelling people without justificaction helps no-one.


Hello

So here is another angle on events.

I think that this post could run and run, but ultimately, the deal between the customer and dealer is finished, so is there really any more to say?

Russell

I just do not wish to see this thread becoming world war three on a forum.


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

> An interesting development from upspex!


sheds a whole new light on things...


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: 795*



Rapide561 said:


> I think that this post could run and run, but ultimately, the deal between the customer and dealer is finished, so is there really any more to say?
> 
> Russell
> 
> I just do not wish to see this thread becoming world war three on a forum.


Possibly a lot, the dealer surely has a right to reply and that was a nice engineering quality reply ( precise, calm and hopefully accurate ).


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## johng1974 (Jan 17, 2007)

nremoved my own posting...


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

*Re: 795*



Rapide561 said:


> I think that this post could run and run, but ultimately, the deal between the customer and dealer is finished, so is there really any more to say?
> 
> Russell
> 
> I just do not wish to see this thread becoming world war three on a forum.


I think it's right that this thread should continue to run based on the new information from someone with intimate experience of the problem.

Reffering also to the excellent post by dennisthemenace, It is a sad fact of life that people by and large are far more interested when something goes wrong than when something goes well and are much more keen to throw in their opinions and experiences.

Two fairly recent threads demonstrate this, when Humber Traveller was told by Brownhills they didn't want his business, a load of people dived in to criticise them. When in another thread on prices being increased due to the strength of the Euro there was precious little support or praise for Brownhills, who were not increasing their prices whilst other dealers were.

Human nature I'm afraid

Andrew


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

well you have all accepted what upspex has said pretty readily and he has no track record on here.


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> well you have all accepted what upspex has said pretty readily and he has no track record on here.


You have to start somewhere Frank.

It is obvious that anyone can post a pack of lies, whether they have one post or many thousands.

The reply contained enough technical details for me to prove it was probably genuine, wasn't overtly hostile, and attempted to balance the one sided argument, accepting that Marquis had the opportunity to respond.

That is why I said I'd like this thread to continue

Andrew


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Frank, why can't we accept a perfectly feasible tech. explanation? 
Andrew, (Android) Brownhills have increased their prices by 7% and are 
only sticking to the original prices for vans they have sold because 
Brownhills have already paid Hymer for them.They are in business not 
philanthropists. 

tony.


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## 104586 (May 18, 2007)

Thanks Android, for your comment.

Upspex appears to be a sub-contractor of some sort who actually worked on this vehicle, and I found his points pertinent.

He is however obviously not Marquis, at whom the main criticism or complaint was levied by Speedyone.

In other words he can detail the technical issues, but can not be responsible for or deal with the Customer care aspects; I would really like to have heard from Marquis, but I guess they may not want to get involved


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## sallytrafic (Jan 17, 2006)

well it sounded pretty emotive to me "OK lets cut through the crap".


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: 795*



bhewart said:


> Rapide561 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that this post could run and run, but ultimately, the deal between the customer and dealer is finished, so is there really any more to say?
> ...


Hi

I am sure there is a lot to say, and if the postings are calm and rational all well and good. I just don't want to see a boxing match!

Russell


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## carolgavin (May 9, 2005)

sallytrafic said:


> well it sounded pretty emotive to me "OK lets cut through the crap".


Me too especially the bit about the physical abuse!!!
Lets face it we all have our own version of the facts and human nature being what it is we will all paint ourselves in the best possible light.
The main point is that the relationship between dealer and customer and customer and dealer deteriorated to such a point that both were glad to escape from the deal. However in my experience ( and it is limited) it is not usually that easy to get out of a deal!!!!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: 795*



Rapide561 said:


> Hi
> I am sure there is a lot to say, and if the postings are calm and rational all well and good. I just don't want to see a boxing match!
> Russell


Hi Russell

Yes indeed - we don't want any mmmurder and mmmayhem here! :roll:

No doubt the Mods are hovering like a flock of vultures, poised to dive in with a stafing run if anybody gets too uppity!

Hmmmm. "_Wing Commander Gaspode_" has a nice ring to it, now I think about it! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Rapide561 (Oct 1, 2005)

*Cancelled deal*



carolgavin said:


> sallytrafic said:
> 
> 
> > well it sounded pretty emotive to me "OK lets cut through the crap".
> ...


Carol, I only know one person who has had a deal cancelled. Well, not cancelled as such, but the vehicle they bought was returned to the dealer and refunded.

Russell


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

GEMMY said:


> Andrew, (Android) Brownhills have increased their prices by 7% and are
> only sticking to the original prices for vans they have sold because
> Brownhills have already paid Hymer for them.They are in business not
> philanthropists.
> ...


Tony, the original post refered to people who had vans on order, one would assume, as is normal business policy that they had paid a deposit.

When the vans were delivered and the balance was to be paid the dealers were asking for an additional sum as they themselves were being asked for more from the manufacturers.

Brownhills were not asking for this additional sum, I would be very surprised if their cashflow allowed them to pay for the vans up front.

A more reasonable explanation would be that they had either bought the currency forward, or their relationship with Hymer is so strong that they (Hymer) would absorb the increase for vans in the production cycle.

New order for vans would then reflect the price based on the strength of the Euro.

A reasonable approach from my point of view.

Individuals and dealers still have the option of protecting themselves from further falls in the pound, By buying the forward the currency.

But I suspect they won't on the hope that the pound will strengthen.

Andrew


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

Andrew, from what I understand,Hymers contract with Brownhills 
requires B/hills to order a certain quantity of M/homes, and to pay up 
front to keep their monopoly. 
tony,


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

Hi Tony,

I can understand a minimum order requirement to retain an exclusive distribution contract, but paying upfront would be extremely unusual.

Maybe one of our dealer members would care to comment


Andrew


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## Gixer-Mark (Nov 6, 2007)

Well ... this is now going to take this a whole lot deeper !

I have now contacted a solicitor over the allegations from a new joiner 'Upspex' who happens to be Martyn ...the electrical guy who 'worked' on our Bessacarr and in his own words ... 'has an inside knowledge' of the M/Home we were buying. If he had this much knowledge why the hell didn't he phone me and tell me then .... they really are a shower of S**t over at Tewkesbury !!!

If you notice he joined AFTER I started this thread. He has now landed himself with a libal chit, on his way due to this line :

'I believe that the dealer has offered to refund the customers deposit because they no longer want this customer due to all the abuse that he has delivered to them, some of it physical' !!!. 


At NO TIME have either my wife or I been abusive and have certainly NEVER used any PHYSICAL actions against anyone in Marquis Motorhomes, be it at Tewkesbury or any other branch. 

As for you making out 'it wasn't the engine management light ' !! This is what both Justin & Jonathan told me & it was only when I phoned Fiat in Gloucester who had the vehicle that the story about the bulb failure light came out. NOW WHO'S LYING !!!! Seems it's endemic with ALL of you over there.

I have had enough of being 'Mr Nice ' guy over this .... watch my tracer Martyn .... you have upset the wrong person now !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

androidGB said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I can understand a minimum order requirement to retain an exclusive distribution contract, but paying upfront would be extremely unusual.
> 
> ...


Hi,

No vehicle manufacture/converter will release a vehicle without either payment up front, cheque, bankers draft or BACS payment being received or it being released on an aproved independent stocking plan.

A dealer will order a MH with a detailed priced specification at the time of ordering.

What foreign manufacturers do, I have no idea as we are *BRITISH *through and through and *proud of it* and intend to stay that way.

Peter


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## 110292 (Mar 1, 2008)

> Fiat are awaiting a new ecu from Italy, apparently they are now chassis coded so it has to be the exact one.


I have worked 35 years in the motor trade, 20 of them running my own business. This is how I view modern vehicle technology. 
When it comes to the technology side of vehicles ( wether a car or MH) all the customer wants( after spending thousands of their hard earned cash) is reliability and confidence in the vehicle. IMO the manufactures are making so many unnecessary advances in vehicle technology controlled by ECU's that some are becoming unreliable ( how many new vehicles do you see on the hard shoulder awaiting assistance 7/10 ? or going into limp home mode) 
As well as customers wanting reliable vehicles the agency wants to sell a reliable vehicle and have it right for the customer so they will be satisfied and return for servicing.. But with increasing sophisticated electronics being put into modern vehicles like chassis coded ECU's ( whats that all about vehicle security! at least the thief won't want to steal an unreliable vehicle !!). 
Where will all this technology lead to? all anybody wants is to have a reliable MH to take them on their well deserved holidays and home again. Look at the VW split screen camper , gets you from A to B and home again its still going strong. 
We spent the best part of 3 months looking for our first MH and had to bit the bullet, go common rail Fiat ducato based with the 2.8 JTD engine( I wanted the earlier 2.8 TD with the mechanical pump but couldn't find one to suit). I am determined to master the technology on this as I want to keep her. I even drive older cars as I find them reliable ( a merc 320E k reg and a Fiat X19 on an E )Ban the technology and enjoy the holiday 
There I've had my rant for the day . Rich


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## Broom (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi All

Just updated myself with this post, would recommend that its stopped as it has run its course

Best Regards
Broom


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## androidGB (May 26, 2005)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> androidGB said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tony,
> ...


Hi Peter,

I'm not disputing that, the inference was that Brownhills were not going to increase vehicles on order because they had all been paid for.

This is very different to paying for completed vehicles before they are released

Andrew


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

Chubby said:


> Where will all this technology lead to?


Vehicles that are worth peanuts all too quickly. Vehicles where the dealer through greed and incompetence and the manufacturer through greed, cost too much to keep running.

I really don't know, but how much would it cost to diagnose ( possibly incorrectly ), get a new matching ECU ( if available ) from Italy and fit it.

Rather a lot I would think.

Last year I had to spend on an ODB2 interface and software to get a clue why my car engine light came on - Lambda sensor. But much data is kept hidden by Ford.

I have a great local garage but he can't afford to keep up to date with diagnostics for all makes.


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## JohnsCrossMotorHomes (Jul 21, 2007)

androidGB said:


> JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:
> 
> 
> > androidGB said:
> ...


Hi Andrew,

Oh aplologies for that, must have got the wrong end of the stick there.

To clarfify:

No dealer pays for a vehicle at the time of ordering, would be financial madness to do so.

What I do not understand is any dealer or converter trying to increase the price after the order has been signed and accepted by the customer and the dealer, although no doubt it is hidden in the small print somewhere.

Swift do have a price increase on certain models only, but this was made quite clear at the NEC with bold notices on the models concerned.

*Yet another case for buying BRITISH!*

Peter


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## GEMMY (Jun 19, 2006)

This could be why Brownhills are in financial difficulties having re-
negotiated their bank loan arrangement and have a further 5 million 
injection. 

tony,

ps.they currently have loads of 2007 models available,supposedly at 
huge savings but what I can see are merely pre-increase prices.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> *Yet another case for buying BRITISH!*
> 
> Peter


I did that once. A Rover 25 TD. Spritely thing, fun. For ages, every time I parked it, some time later the alarm would go off. Eventually traced to a plug in the drivers door.

Then The Squeak, like a chirp behind me. Took it in "Nothing Sir". And again "Nothing Sir". In the end I got their bod in and I took him for a ride. "Nothing Sir", "no It Does, let's do a few more minutes". I could have been accused of kidnapping him. Chirp, chirp.

It needed to be a bit warm.

After they stripped out the headlining they then completed the welding they forgot at the factory. Then it went back a week later so they could put the headlining back properly.

I was in quite a club, as I sat in the dealers we used to swap horror stories, I think I had a well built one.

I got rid as soon as the warranty ended at a mere 55,000 miles.

So Buy British cuts no ice with me, that new Rover was a worse car new than the 115,000 mile Golf I PXed.

Have you read Frank's blog on British ?


----------

