# Overweight motor home



## flyinghigh (Dec 10, 2012)

I found this article on a horse box forum and thought it had relevants to our situation as motor homers,

Have never been pulled over and weighed in a horsebox. Have been pulled over a couple of times when driving artics but as they were either empty or only partly laden at the time, no problems.

For the last 11 years I've been weighing vehicles. Vehicles in the 3.6 tonne to 7.5 tonne category are prime candidates for being overloaded. Please note, vehicles are 'overloaded,' drivers are 'overweight!' Doesn't really matter if the vehicle is a horsebox or not, fridge vehicles and vehicles with internal panelling all have reduced payload capacity. Just because there is a lot of room in the back doesn't mean you can fill it with horses, frozen food, pallets of books or magazines etc. With 7.5 tonne vehicles it's really easy to overload the front axle.

The best advice I can offer is get the vehicle weighed whilst empty but with a full tank of fuel (if you can afford to do that these days) and yourself sitting in the driving seat. Now you know the 'tare weight' subtract it from the 'gross weight' on the weight plate and you have the 'payload,' or the amount of weight you can carry. Now be realistic as to what you need to take with you and how much it weighs. Trust me, an awful lot of kit isn't needed. A few years of having to carry a Bergen, weapon and webbing taught me that ammo, water and some food is important, everything else isn't. I'm not saying you need to be puritanical, just be sensible; do you really need to take 200 litres of water with you? The more your vehicle carries the more fuel it will consume.

Over the years I've prosecuted a large number of overloads. My personal 'best' was a 7.5 tonne freezer vehicle that weighed 11.75 tonnes!! I've seen 3.5 tonne vans weigh 6 tonnes on the weighbridge and didn't believe the driver when he said it didn't handle any different from normal. Unfortunately I've had to deal with a number of overloaded horseboxes. The last one on the M6 was carrying 5 polo ponies. Two stayed in local livery and had to be transported to Scotland later, from memory the livery bill was about £100 and the fine £200.

Now the legal bit. Overloading is an 'absolute offence.' In other words you are guilty even if the authorised weight is only exceeded by 1 Kg. There are two defences;
- you were travelling to the nearest available weighbridge from the point of loading to check weigh the vehicle and load.
- you are returning to the nearest suitable point to remove excess load having check weighed the vehicle and found it to be overloaded. 
Word of warning, do not try claiming the defence if that is not what you're actually doing, Police, VOSA Examiners, Trading Standards Officers and the Courts have heard it all before.

There is a 5 per cent tolerance given on overloading. This was introduced to cover eventualities where the load could increase in weight during transport; think soil being carried in a tipper when it's raining, also hay / straw being carried in the rain. In reality it doesn't need to apply to a horsebox or other vehicle with a covered loading area, however, it does. This means that you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van and 375 kg on a 7.5 tonne vehicle. Now, those amongst us used to transport will say that the tolerance quoted is unfair to smaller vehicles because larger vehicles could be overloaded to a greater degree think 2.2 tonnes on a 44 tonne artic. However, like so many things in life there is a 'yes, but.' In this case is the plated weight is exceeded by 1 tonne then prosecution will be automatic, irrespective of the actual percentage involved.

So what actually happens if the authorised weight is exceeded?
The vehicle will be prohibited from further use until the overload is removed. Let's make this clear, it is your problem to deal with the overload not the Officers / Examiners. The vast majority that I know will have a great deal of sympathy, especially where animals are involved and will often direct vehicles a short distance or even escort them to a safe place where animals can be safely offloaded. You can break the terms of the Prohibition Notice if you wish, but you will go to Court and it will be an expensive experience, think maximum level of fine up to £5000.

Most overloads are dealt with by way of a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN). If you have a UK address then you have 28 days to pay the ticket or you can elect to go to Court and plead not guilty. FPNs are graduated dependent upon the degree of overload, current values are;
>5% <10% £60
>10%<20% £120
>20%<30% £120
If the overload is greater than 30% or five tonnes then you will be going to Court. Maximum fine is upto £5000, although I've never seen that or anything approaching it. The actual amount depends upon your previous history, if you enetr an 'early guilty plea,' what your disposable income is etc etc.

There are no points for an overloading offence per se. However, dependent upon the degree of overload the prosecuting authority may decide to go with 'use vehicle in a dangerous condition.' If this is the case the authority only have to show that the vehicle was LIKELY to be a danger to the driver, passengers, other road users or pedestrians. If convicted the maximum fine is £5000 (see previous comments about what you actually get fined), this is the nasty bit; the Court MUST impose Penalty Points, 3-6 and should in severe cases consider disqualification (very rare in my experience).

Apologies for the long post. Nice glass of Gevrey Chambertin or Chablis to those that made it this far - but not if you're driving.


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## BillCreer (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi,
Thanks for that information.

I don't condone overloading for one minute but I don't agree with your advice about keeping your luggage to a bare minimum. I have done a lot of basic camping in my youth and came to the conclusion that the more luxuries that you could take with you then the more pleasant the experience.


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Very well put, and excellent advice.

It matters not what your views are in respect of luggage etc. If you exceed your vehicles plated weight the fine is the same regardless of WHAT cuases you to be over.


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

Very interesting information from the authorities point of view.An important point for motorhome owners is the tolerance of 5% allowed.

''you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van ''

So a van plated at 3500KG MGVW would have to be over 3675kg before attracting a fine of £60.That is a substantial and generous amount of leeway and could save a few overloaded motorhomes from a fixed penalty.

I believe there are a significant number of vans on the road that are overloaded,some manufacturers are notoriously meagre with payloads.A £60 fine is also rather a small penalty,the most inconvenient thing would be deciding what cargo to jettison at the side of the road,perhaps the VOSA inspectors are partial to a few boxes of booze. :lol:


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I never knew about the 5% or 175KG grace either. Thats useful to know. Our van is often up to or around its limit due to the stuff we carry and the scooter.

Im not saying im suddenly going to get a bigger bike or bring back 175KG worth of extra booze but I suspect there will have been the odd time its been 50KG or so over the 3500. 

I could upgrade it as a paper exercise but prefer to be under 3500.


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## bigtwin (May 24, 2008)

I should treat the 5% allowance with care. I suspect that it is 'allowed' largely to accommodate the inevitable variability between different weighbridges.

It would be inadvisable to assume that what your weighbridge ticket indicates is absolutely accurate since all measuring devices have a tolerance.

Ian


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## dalspa (Jul 1, 2008)

I would think that the Insurance Companies don't have this 5% allowance so if involved in an accident, they could throw out a claim if just over the MGW of the van.
Was talking to a motorhomer this summer (in Annecy) and I remarked that he had got a push bike on a motorbike rack on the back. He said that he had intended to get a motorbike for this 6 month trip but just before splashing out on a motorbike he thought he had better weigh the motorhome. He found that he was already 400kg overweight!

DavidL


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

I wonder if any cars could end up 'overloaded' with 4/5 fat people and luggage.??

Ray.


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## 747 (Oct 2, 2009)

wakk44 said:


> Very interesting information from the authorities point of view.An important point for motorhome owners is the tolerance of 5% allowed.
> 
> ''you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van ''
> 
> ...


be very wary of that. The manufacturers also have a percentage leeway on the published figures for their models. This is often why you find you have no payload. 8O


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

whoops!


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## tony50 (Oct 16, 2007)

Flyinghigh has done a good job explaining loading in simple terms , when I was a Fleet Engineer for a brewery in Ipswich , we had a Wines and Spirit company in Cromer , Norfolk. one of the 7.5 tonne vehicles was quite rightly pulled up by the Norwich Police , vehicle weighed and was overloaded on ,The Front axle, Rear axle and overloaded overall .
Three charged offences , I represented the Company and the driver in court in Wymondom , Norfolk pleading guilty on all charges, luckily the 3 fines for the company and 3 for the driver were £120 on each charge , my friend down in Somerset had a truck picked up with less overloading and one charge and got fined £1000.
So you could pick up 3 charges ,and the fine amount if you go to court could depends where you are in the country, best advice is what Highflyer said weigh it !

Tony A


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## gaspode (May 9, 2005)

bigtwin said:


> I should treat the 5% allowance with care. I suspect that it is 'allowed' largely to accommodate the inevitable variability between different weighbridges.
> 
> It would be inadvisable to assume that what your weighbridge ticket indicates is absolutely accurate since all measuring devices have a tolerance.
> 
> Ian


I doubt if any commercial weighbridge issueing tickets with a 5% inaccuracy would stay in business very long.
ISTR that the maximum legal tolerance is +/- 2%.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

Be careful as the 5% is just in relation to issuing a fixed penalty notice and you will not be allowed to continue your journey until you have lost your excess weight even if you don't get a ticket.
Unless you can dump enough water what do you leave behind and where?
I have been on many checks with VOSA and they don't know what tolerance is.
The other problem is once stopped they will go over your vehicle with a fine tooth comb, and their comb is much finer than the MOT man's.
James


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## emmbeedee (Oct 31, 2008)

gaspode said:


> bigtwin said:
> 
> 
> > I should treat the 5% allowance with care. I suspect that it is 'allowed' largely to accommodate the inevitable variability between different weighbridges.
> ...


Much less than that, actually. 
Firstly, no tolerances for weighing machines are stated in percentage terms. Instead, they are stated as an amount of weight error. Last time I checked, the permitted error on the least accurate class of a 40 ton weighbridge was 10 kgs. That is checked on each corner, in the middle & anywhere else the Weights & Measures inspector thinks fit.
So for all practical purposes you can ignore weighbridge error. If it's being used for trade purposes it will be accurate. It will also be regularly checked by W&M for accuracy, just like the scales in your local butchers, etc.
If you have the time & a lot of patience, the Weights & Measures regulations & tolerances are all available on line so you can check for yourself.


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

JP said:


> Be careful as the 5% is just in relation to issuing a fixed penalty notice and you will not be allowed to continue your journey until you have lost your excess weight even if you don't get a ticket.
> Unless you can dump enough water what do you leave behind and where?
> I have been on many checks with VOSA and they don't know what tolerance is.
> The other problem is once stopped they will go over your vehicle with a fine tooth comb, and their comb is much finer than the MOT man's.
> James


Bugger. Ill best cancel the order for the 650cc Enduro then.


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## 91502 (May 1, 2005)

barryd said:


> Bugger. Ill best cancel the order for the 650cc Enduro then.


No problem Barry just get Mrs D to ride along behind you?


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## JayBe (Jul 17, 2010)

barryd said:


> I never knew about the 5% or 175KG grace either. Thats useful to know. Our van is often up to or around its limit due to the stuff we carry and the scooter.
> 
> Im not saying im suddenly going to get a bigger bike or bring back 175KG worth of extra booze but I suspect there will have been the odd time its been 50KG or so over the 3500.
> 
> I could upgrade it as a paper exercise but prefer to be under 3500.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Evening all,


Absolute offence ? I do,nt believe there is such a thing. but I agree with everything else.


norm


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## Mike48 (May 1, 2005)

I wouldn't mind betting that a high proportion of motorhomes are overloaded especially by those who over winter in Spain. I can hardly believe the detritus that some people take away with them. Those who bolt scooters on the back have to be particularly careful.


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## JayBe (Jul 17, 2010)

*Overweight Motor Home*

Hi

My comment timed 12.39am appears to have gone astray, so I will start again.

Thankyou 'flyinghigh' for highlighting this subject.

In September this year we came across a self- operating weighbridge in the Spanish Pyrenees just after filling the water tank and filling with diesel, and weighed in for a euro. We mainly wild-camp so keep the water filled whenever there is opportunity. Quite a shock to find that we were just on our weight limit of 3850kg GVW. We had luckily left our cycles at home.

At the NEC show we ordered a new m/h, slightly smaller and GVW of 3650kg. The payload is 755kg., which is good against that of most m/hs., but immediately that figure is reduced by the addition of the option package on special offer at the NEC, and the UK standard package which includes a 2.3lt engine 35kg extra weight, and an oven 14.5kg. A total of 95.10kg.. Solar Panel kit, awning, alarm, tracker and third battery total approximately 72.95kg..Full fuel tank approximately 76.50kg. Our combined weights are 155.70kg..

The payload available is now down to 354.75kg..100 litres water in a 120 litre tank, leaves only 254.75kg for all our camping items, bedding, clothing, toiletries and food.

After a laborious task of listing and weighing every item we normally carry, it is now difficult in deciding how to get the weight down to the correct figure. Less clothing, less food, or leave my wife at home?

How can others carry scooters, motorcycles, satellite domes, air conditioning units, etc., legally? There must be numerous m/hs well over rear axle weights and GVW., therefore obviously voiding their insurance.

Living in Devon, I have frequently seen such vehicles on the M5 exceeding 70mph, but that, as they say, is another story........

JayBe


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## peribro (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: Overweight Motor Home*



JayBe said:


> How can others carry scooters, motorcycles, satellite domes, air conditioning units, etc., legally? There must be numerous m/hs well over rear axle weights and GVW., therefore obviously voiding their insurance.


It's probably debatable whether being overweight voids one's insurance although it's possible that an insurance company would reduce a payout to an insured party if the vehicle was overweight and the claim resulted from that. Leaving that aside, many people uprate the max weights of their motorhomes. Often it is just a paper exercise although sometimes changes to the tyres and suspension may be required.


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## goldi (Feb 4, 2009)

Morning folks,

This 5 % is to allow for wind loading on high vehicles.
The trading standards is not far from me and I go there before a long journey with eveything on, and there is a variation if you weigh twice but not by very much per haps 20 kg.
One thing to remember is how do foreign cops work ? do they have any tolerance? does anyone know of anyone who has been stopped and find ? 



norm


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## barryd (May 9, 2008)

I wonder how many buy vans blissfully unaware of what Payload even is?

If it wasnt for this forum back in 2008 when I got our first van and did all the research I may well have been disapointed.

I had every intention of putting a scooter on the back and even a boat and outboard in the Luton! Had I bought most vans without working it out it never would have happened. As it turned out the boat was a bad idea and quickly got sold.

We have been stopped and wieghed on entry into Switzerland and questioned about weight several times at the Swiss border. I think they were looking more at how they could charge us more for using their roads than being overweight to be honest.


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## rayc (Jun 3, 2008)

Most of this minor overloading is due not to limitations of the chassis but to the driving licence requirements for over 3500kg.
It is completely nonsensical, drive a 3500kg motorhome with a 750kg trailer is deemed ok for a group B licence but a 4250kg motorhome solo needs a C1 licence. 
If already in possession of a BE licence then a 70 you will retain it and be able to tow a larger trailer with the 3500kg motorhome most likely up to the maximum train weight of the motorhome.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

raynipper said:


> I wonder if any cars could end up 'overloaded' with 4/5 fat people and luggage.??
> 
> Ray.


Tut tut!!!! nobody is ever fat these days - there are always some other word that is used to spare their blushes.


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## raynipper (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes, sadly all sorts of excuses come out.
My bros in law was over 30 stone when he died at 67 after several heart attacks. Kept saying it was an illness....... :roll: 

Watching several TV progs about these heavy people, I am amazed at how their 'disability' is catered for.!!

Ray.


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## oldun (Nov 10, 2005)

wakk44 said:


> Very interesting information from the authorities point of view.An important point for motorhome owners is the tolerance of 5% allowed.
> 
> ''you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van ''
> 
> ...


I cannot agree with the conclusions drawn here.

All weighbridges have an error in their measurement (everything has an error!) so when you weight your motorhome and find it is 175 kg over weight you cannot just say "well that is OK" because the weighbridge itself may well be under estimating the weight of the van so the actual weight could be (say) 350kg over and then you are in real trouble.

Do not EVER assume that a weighbridge, capable of measuring 40 tonnes, will be dead accurate at 3.5 tonnes.

I do not know what the error will be but it is probably quite significant.


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

Met a guy in the Douro valley he was on his way to the algarve and had brake failure he was also moaning about the handling of the van, the garage had told him he was overloaded just to get rid of some weight and let the brakes cool down miraculously they left him to sort himself out on the aire when we arrived he was insistent he wasn't that overloaded because his springs were still level, he thought he had about a ton on board and was very dubious when I said most vans have 350/500 payload inc passenger & other essentials , I helped him redistribute his load he had cereals under his seat's and crates of tins of chicken supreme and steak and onion in his overcab was down for 6 months and had bought enough of most stuff to last???
I told him he had been lucky and all he said was I've done it for the last three years,


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