# Query re Britstops



## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

We tried out our first Britstops on our last trip down to England and were surprised when we were obviously expected to buy a meal. We did buy one although our plan had been to eat in the van and have a few drinks in the Britstop bar. 
So, my question is this normal, if the establishment serves food do you always eat there? If so it seems to make the whole thing a bit pricey. We normally stay on CLs for anything from £5 to £12, cook our own meals not to save money but because we enjoy cooking, really dn't want to be in a position whereby we have to eat out every night.
Btw the food in this particular establishment was typical pub grub - not much taste but piled high with chips etc!!


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## greygit (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: Query re Britshops*



Nethernut said:


> We tried out our first Britstops on our last trip down to England and were surprised when we were obviously expected to buy a meal. We did buy one although our plan had been to eat in the van and have a few drinks in the Britstop bar.
> So, my question is this normal, if the establishment serves food do you always eat there? If so it seems to make the whole thing a bit pricey. We normally stay on CLs for anything from £5 to £12, cook our own meals not to save money but because we enjoy cooking, really dn't want to be in a position whereby we have to eat out every night.
> Btw the food in this particular establishment was typical pub grub - not much taste but piled high with chips etc!!


We don't use Brit Stops as we tend to tour mostly over t water but yes I would expect to have to spend money after all they are not charities........Know what you mean about the food though. :wink:


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## wakk44 (Jun 15, 2006)

I think it is only right to buy something from your Britstops host.They are providing an overnight parking spot and expect something in return.However there shouldn't be any compulsion or pressure applied by the host to make you buy anything.

I think it is a question of common sense and morally doing the right thing.


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## lunac (Sep 16, 2012)

wife and I joined britstops earlier in the year and have used a couple of pubs. We have taken the veiw that we will only use as 'treat' . I agree with greygit, in that they are business's and as such if you are touring work out expensive. 
The best option therefore, would be to try and use one of the farm shops to overnight. 
You could purchase some local fresh produce and knock up your own grub and if lucky wash if down with locally produced brew. 
Tasty and less expensive.


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

We joined Britstops last year and stayed at one of the pubs. When we went in to let them know we were there and to check we were OK where we'd parked the first they said that time shall we book your table for this evening? We certainly felt pressured to eat in even though we hadn't planned to. To be quite honest the food was rubbish and we had to wait ages for it to arrive and even had to ask if we'd been forgotten!

We didn't bother renewing for this year.

Denise


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

lunac said:


> You could purchase some local fresh produce and knock up your own grub and if lucky wash if down with locally produced brew. Tasty and less expensive.


Sounds like a plan to me! :wink:

It's not the cost of a pub meal that would bother us, because that would be pre-programmed into the trip and we would be well aware of what we were planning to spend - give or take a couple of quid.

We would be a bit disappointed though, if we were served the sort of "fuel" Nethernut received. It seems like a two way deal to me. Can't expect the pubs to let you stay overnight for nothing, but it would be good if they did their bit by serving something better than "chips with everything" fodder.

Hasn't it occurred to them that the forums will be full of feedback! _(Ghastly pun intended!  )_

Dave


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi folks,

PM sent to Nethernut so I can sort this out with the pub.

Of course the hosts sign up hoping to get extra custom, and in most cases they will. But Brit Stops hosts sign up to offer an unconditionally free stopover. It's clearly stated in the T&C on the registration page on our website.

In fact we took a pub out last year when we heard that it was insisting members had a meal.

However we can only act if we find out, so to that extent we rely on members' feedback, and a direct message to me is always much appreciated. You can pm me here, use the contact form on our website, or the [email protected] email address.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## Mrplodd (Mar 4, 2008)

Well done for picking this one up Steve!!

My view is that why on earth should I expect to make use of a pubs facilities (car park etc) for free ?? If we all did that think how long it would take for the landlords to say "Sod this, we are basically providing a free campsite here, sorry chaps but the offer has been withdrawn"

If you dont like the principles involved then I suggest you start using CL's etc and dont ruin the Britstop system for those who are prepared to purchase a meal etc. 

If you are stopping at a pub you have to expect pub type food, if you dont want that sort of food dont partake in the Britstop scheme :roll: !!


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

I think any _significant _problems are very much in the minority, and we should remember that it is still a very new and novel system, so there are bound to be occasional hiccups until everyone is familiar and fully understands. Crap food is disappointing, but no big deal really and certainly not confined to Britstops pubs!! 8O

A lot also depends both on the way a landlord approaches our members, and how they perceive that approach.

If a landlord said to us, _"Would you like to book a table for supper?" _and left it at that, we would take it entirely at face value and not feel pressurised at all. Other people might perceive it as being leaned on to buy a meal . . . so the landlord is always going to be in a tricky situation and may need to develop a singular approach to Britstop members. :roll:

He will obviously want them to have a meal, but must find a way to "_encourage_" them without putting on any undue pressure. By the same token the Britstops member must not look for pressure selling where there isn't any. :roll:

Like most aspects of life, a bit of mutual consideration and understanding goes a long way.

Dave


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## Camdoon (Sep 21, 2012)

Was looking at the site yesterday and could not find out the number of stops or indication of the percentages of each type of establishment.


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

Well much as I obviously applaud your enthusiastic support of Brit Stops, Mrplodd, I'm not sure I'd go so far as saying the scheme would be ruined if every now and then someone stopped over and only had a drink, and not a meal.

In fact I confess we ourselves stopped at number 408 recently on our way to the Carmarthen show, but arrived too late to pop in, and had to get away at the crack of dawn to reach Carmarthen before the show started that morning. Not ideal of course for them, but they readily agreed when I phoned, and on the other hand they haven't lost anything and have gained goodwill.

On the other hand, one of our aims is to support local producers and village pubs, many of which are under threat of closure, partly due to lack of passing trade. Of course if nobody _ever_ bought anything, the whole thing would be pretty much pointless, I agree!

Steve
Oh, also sent a pm to joedenise too, to locate the pub they spoke of.


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## tubbytuba (Mar 21, 2007)

Surely it's easy enough to politely say 'we will not be dining with you tonight but we will certainly come in for a drink or two'. Since when has having a meal been a prerequisite of going in a pub?
Steve.


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## Telbell (May 1, 2005)

"The pub was typical pub grub"....

hmm...but if you are staying in the car park of a pub...and the grub was "typical" then (as Mr Plodd I think is implying-and I agree) what is the issue. What else is expected?

The landlord who asked what time the visitor wanted to book a meal for, however, is out of order. Haven't met that greeting ourselves.


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

Camdoon said:


> Was looking at the site yesterday and could not find out the number of stops or indication of the percentages of each type of establishment.


Ooh, busy today on the forum! :lol:

There are 231 stops in the 2013 book, and I have another 30-odd that I'll be sending out to members in a couple of weeks once I've received approval from a couple of hosts I'm waiting on. The map on the website shows where the 231 are.

Currently the ratio of pubs:non pubs is about 60:40, with the majority of the non-pubs being farm shops. The remainder is made up of 7 vineyards, a few breweries and a whole range of "one-offs" like an antiques centre, a seafood cafe, two activities centres, fishing lakes, ice-cream farms, a couple of B&Bs, a couple of motorhome-related businesses, a herb nursery and even an airfield.

I say "currently" as obviously we are constantly recruiting new hosts, so the figures change over the course of the year.

Hope that helps.

Steve


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## KateCLLRS (Mar 8, 2012)

We stayed at a pub last year and although we didn't have a meal, our bar bill was significantly higher than it would have been had we stayed at a campsite/CS etc as so I reckon the hosts did quite well out of us! I'd expect to have a drink (or several) in a pub but not necessarily a meal, unless the menu looked inviting, I certainly wouldn't entertain eating indifferent food ...


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## NigeT (Sep 22, 2010)

We have stayed at several, farm shops we buy our weekend food, we have to buy it anyway and we like to eat well.

Pubs we have a meal generally, as said I don't expect something for nothing and we often eat at pubs when travelling.

We haven't come across the problem, but I'm happy to say not eating but will be in for a drink later.


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## Nethernut (Jun 4, 2008)

We weren't expecting to stop for free! As I said we were quite happy to buy several drinks.



Mrplodd said:


> Well done for picking this one up Steve!!
> 
> My view is that why on earth should I expect to make use of a pubs facilities (car park etc) for free ?? If we all did that think how long it would take for the landlords to say "Sod this, we are basically providing a free campsite here, sorry chaps but the offer has been withdrawn"
> 
> ...


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## stevethebeekeeper (Jan 23, 2011)

I have stayed in a few pubs from the book. I have yet to feel intimidated to have a meal. I will have a few beers though. It certainly ends up matching the price of a CS, but I have had a few beers which the CS do not provide :thumbleft: 

Do not be too put off by this one.


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## tonyblake (Apr 4, 2008)

I can appreciate the comments made by several members who consider they would feel 'obliged' to buy something.
I joined Brit Stops last year, and renewed this year and as yet I have not stayed on any. Problems at work and weekend, time off etc.
I joined Brit Stops because it provided names and locations of places to park for 24 hours (which rarely would be the case. More like 10 hours max) and although I understand the scheme and its intentions, if I felt pressurised to buy meals or even drinks, then I would go. The scheme as far as I understand (somebody will shoot me down here, I daresay), is that we pay for a sticker and booklet that provides us with places to stay nationally, without charge (except some that do but advised), basically overnight . I appreciate its a 24 hour thing but mainly to get away from wild camping and on an area that facilities are available, if as a motorhomer, you wanted or needed to use them.
What is the point in paying to join Brit Stops, putting in a current sticker only to find that I would have to buy something at the 'free' parking place?
I have stayed at many pubs over the years and happy to buy a meal if I could park by asking the landlord but not when the scheme is available. If I want to be a patron that night, fine but if I don't I shouldn't be compelled to.
THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOT CRITICISING ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION.


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

tonyblake said:


> ... If I want to be a patron that night, fine but if I don't I shouldn't be compelled to.


Hi Tony,

Yes, absolutely right. That's exactly how Brit Stops is set up. You don't have to buy anything if you don't want to.

If the host has done a good job on their produce or menu though, you may like what you see and be tempted ... and _that_, is of course a different matter!

Steve


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## rugbyken (Jan 16, 2006)

not unknown for the free camping to cost £50/60 but by our choice had some lovely meals/pints well worth the wobble across the car park,
in our third season of the scheme used 5 or 6 stops a year and only once been asked would we be dining or having a drink with them, in the event we did both, the guy said sorry to ask but we had 2 big vans come take up half the car park and only one chap came in had a pint took it back to his van and i lost the glass as well,
the scheme works as does france passion with goodwill on both sides it is a valuable asset well worth supporting i have twice stopped at pubs that were closed that evening and once at a farm shop that was closed for the owners holiday , no problems and in the abscense of aires one of the best options available.


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## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2007)

rugbyken said:


> . . . the guy said sorry to ask but we had 2 big vans come take up half the car park and only one chap came in had a pint took it back to his van and i lost the glass as well,


Hi Ken

Isn't that just the sort of behaviour that will cripple the scheme if too many selfish sods do things like that. :roll:

As I see it, when you buy the book you are paying for *access *to the scheme, exactly like paying for *membership *of the Caravan Club or the C&CC.

You don't then expect to stay on CC sites for nothing, so why would you think it's OK to camp on someone else's premises and pay nothing for the privilege? :roll:

I agree that you should not be pressurised into spending money, but surely nobody but a total cheapskate (_like the one you just mentioned_) would expect to wander around the country and stay on other people's private land for nothing.

Just my opinion.

Dave


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## DrRoger (Aug 21, 2010)

Not yet stopped at a BritStops pub-due to van repair. But do have a couple lined up-they look like good-food pubs _and _ ask you to phone first 'cos they have limited space & priority at weekend is space for diners.

You know where you stand and that seems perfectly reasonable & is very different to the expectation that you will buy summat-that's not OK as BritStops have said-the essence is that it is free-just like France Passion.


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## rosalan (Aug 24, 2009)

We have stayed at several BritStop pubs and a farm-shop with a restaurant.
We must have been pretty lucky for they were all a success.
When we are travelling around, it is a joy and holiday for my wife to enjoy a meal out without having to cook. With one exception (the farm shop which was expensive) the meals have been excellent, often too large and never expensive. We have met so many really interesting people, both customers and landlord/ladies that we could easily have not come across without BritStops.
I have often heard and read of people finding Pubs and making their own arrangements but we enjoy knowing we are welcome and having the phone numbers and parking details before we arrive.
Thank you Steve for all of the hard work you put in and for your obvious enthusiasm in generating this amenity.

Alan


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

The way I see it

I would never stay on a Brit stop without a purchase

I do not expect a free stopover any more than I do at a French Passion

So set in your mind the cost that it's worth, allowing that you gain something over a CL etc fee

I rarely eat out but would have a drink or two and maybe eat if it seemed what I wanted

It's up to the individual

The last B stops I bought chutneys, loved them, very happy to support the business and enjoyed the produce

The parking was not so good amongst stored caravans

But there was no pressure to buy and I've eaten the Chutneys wish I'd bought more

aldra


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## ceejayt (Nov 25, 2005)

I will freely admit to being a total fan of Britstops. My personal reviews here  and what Steve is doing. Hopefully, one day we will have 1000 stopovers to choose from and can stick two fingers up to every mean minded council that won't open it's car park and every supermarket with a height barrier.

So far, I have never felt pressure to spend any money at a Britstop but mostly, we do. See my latest post

However, how brilliant is it to stay somewhere, pay absolutely NOTHING to stay and then spend £10 one £20 on a fantastic meal or some goods from a farm shop.

My wife is in the Britstops book in Harrogate. They expect nothing from anyone who stays, it is provided because we are Motorhomers and we recognise that otherwise you will pay £10 or £20 pr more to stay in Harrogate.

As regards Britstops I would say, join, stay and enjoy and DON'T sweat the small stuff.

Chris


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## tonyblake (Apr 4, 2008)

Thank you Steve and that's how I personally see the scheme working.
I also appreciate that if the fare looks good then I have absolutely no hesitation on buying in supplies and/or dining, depending on the host.
Similar to France Passion, I pulled up at a restaurant that allowed a motorhome to park. They were very welcoming and showed us to the area designated. We did also look at the menu and decided that it looked really good and dined there that night.
The other fact about it was, that they would have been happy for us just to park but because we said we would like to dine, they opened the restaurant (normally closed on that day we arrived), just for us and we had a really good, home cooked french meal and a bottle of wine. We really enjoyed it and the hosts were fantastic. Now, that was really good and the prices were a lot cheaper than in the city centre and they couldn't have made anything because all the restaurant was operational, just for Janet and I. Plus, we finished the bottle of wine outside after. 
That's how I see Brit stops being a great success and I wish them all the best in achieving that goal.
Tony


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Today we bought meat and eggs at the farm shop

And yes the meat was a tad expensive compared to home but the pork chops have a goodly amount or fat on and the lamb joint looks good

Then 2 coffees and one cake at the tea room, I don't eat cakes

We need to get out more as I felt £ 6.50 was a bit steep

But the bull was great and provided us with hours of pleasure

As did the farmer and his dog bringing in the sheep

All in all worth it

But maybe not if you are on a budget

In which case trim the sails

Aldra


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## joedenise (Jul 20, 2007)

Having read various responses since I posted thought I'd respond.

When I said that we felt pressured to book a table, which we hadn't planned on doing, I meant we were planning on eating in the van and then going into the pub to have a few drinks. I wasn't saying that I expected to stay without using the pub at all.

Steve did PM me about my response but I had actually contacted him last year after the experience and he has been in touch with the pub and apparently no problems since.

Denise


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

denise,

I agree with you

A few drinks in the pub is ample

They are not Cls providing water ,emptying fac and often electric for 8- 12 £ 

So we need not feel we need to spend a fortune to stay their car park 

aldra


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## rogerblack (May 1, 2005)

aldra said:


> . . . But the bull was great and provided us with hours of pleasure As did the farmer . . .
> Aldra


  :lol:


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## colpot (Jun 9, 2008)

We are in our second year (this year free as we recommended a local host). We have stayed at Pubs, Farmshops, Vineyards and the Antique Centre. Our only disappointment has been that on all the nights apart from one we have stayed we havent met anyone else using the scheme.
We have only passed on one (a pub which we didnt fancy due to parking) although we did inadvertantly look at it again but still didnt fancy it (personal choice - no critism of the hosts intended.)
We always like to buy some thing - we have been served some lovely food over the two years, bought some lovely wines and produce and met some great hosts.

Crikey didnt realise I liked the scheme this much


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

I have been away touring so am a bit late on this thread.

I was researching Britops with the idea of joining.
I have two thoughts 

1. about any pressure to spend, either from the landlords or one conscience, Steve has made it clear that the participants offering stops have agreed that it is gratis. I would feel obliged to spend something - couple of drinks but not a meal unless I wanted to.

2 Related to 1. above, I think it makes a difference as to how big is the CP relative to the trade on any particular night. If it is empty the obligation is less. If it is full, one is taking up space for what might be a diner.

Another point about standard of food - I wonder how many pubs who have really good food and value feel the need to join? - their CPs might be full anyway. That could result in more mediocre food than good in Britstops.

I once stopped at a pub(not Britstops) at 1400, said I was coming in for a couple of pints, could I stay the night? Deputy Manager agreed. Had 2 pints, back to MH for lunch, glass of wine. 1600 the same guy came out and said the boss had come back and told me to move. I did, but at risk  What a lousy management team :evil: 

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Well Geoff I feel obligated to spend

But only in relation to the Sevice offered

No water, emptying facilities or elec woud cost between 5 - 10 pounds on a basic cc site and they would provide water and emptying facilities 

Now I may well spend more if there's something I want
But if we spend a tenner or so I feel we have in fact discharged our obligation 

I do not in general eat out its not my thing

Have never been pressured at any of the Brit Stops

In fact one selling homemade cheeses told us you do not need to purchase anything,but that cheese was really worth buying  

so I think the truth is I feel I need to purchase something, same as the French Passion but it will be something I want and it will depend on that how much I spend

Aldra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

aldra said:


> Well Geoff I feel obligated to spend
> 
> But only in relation to the Sevice offered
> 
> ...


Sandra

Don't get me wrong I would be spending something, but only because I want to be next to a pub and not drive. Otherwise I would not choose a pub CP - chance of noise, hooligans etc.

And how many of them have views equating to wildcamping spots?

I think I am talking myself out of joining - not worth it for a few weeks in UK.

Enjoyed your Scotland posts.

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

In fairness Geoff

If you are looking at a few weeks it's not going to work out

Although some spots are either beautiful or convenient, one in Wales would have been a great position but the weather turned so we headed home. Next time

I think many use them for short tripsor breaks

We also wild camp but Britstops give us a security net in areas we don't know

Wish I coud have posted some pictures of our Scottish trip, we wild camped in some stunning places

But I am useless  

Aldra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

aldra said:


> In fairness Geoff
> 
> If you are looking at a few weeks it's not going to work out
> 
> ...


Sandra

You are probably correct about only for a few weeks, same foe NT,SNT English Heritage. Hstoric Scotland etc.

Anyway, like you, on our Lakes/Northumbria trip we found wonderful wild sites.

We do not know how to download and post pictures - not sure if I want to give away the locations to the lazy - let hem find them themselves. Having said that we got one from the Gateshead Gnome for which we were grateful and sent thanks.

My feeling on exchanging wild spots is to do it on PMs when you get a good feeling about who will appreciate the site and care for it.

If that sounds cliquey, maybe it is, but only in the spirit of keeping the places as they are.

Friday evening jottings, in between serious Scotland planning.

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I tink you are right about wild spots Geoff 

But a picture could be quite tantalising :lol: 

my Heathcliffe always knows a few excellent spots

aldra


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Actually Geoff

You could be wrong about NT

£69 for two if you pay by standing order, three months free, lookwhere you are travelling, what you would like to see

Many are between £6 and £9 pounds entrance, car parking £3 

We recuperated ours very quickly

Just do some homework

And dont forget to cancell the standing order :lol: :lol: 

Aldra


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## BritStops (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Just to pick up a couple of points, our hosts do obviously sign up to Brit Stops in the hope of gaining more custom, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their food or produce isn't any good! You only need to read through a few of the reviews on the Brit Stops Reviews thread on here to realise that. We currently have one Marco Pierre White pub and a couple that have received a TripAdvisor Certificate of Excellence for food. 

As for noise and "hooliganism", the great majority of our pubs are in rural or village locations. I doubt very much if they get very much in the way of noise and certainly no hooligans! All those that we have stayed at ourselves have been nice spots and we've been more than happy spending the night there. Again, have a quick scan of the reviews here on MHF and you'll see that everyone gets a good night's sleep!

Obviously it's entirely up to the individual whether or not to choose to use Brit Stops, and as I've said before, we're not on any sort of crusade or anything - we happily use camp sites and occasionally wild camp ourselves, but thought I'd pop in with my 2.5p worth!

Steve


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

I would second that

Haven't used that many but all have been good

Some are n areas that woud be difficult to find nearby sites that are so convenient

We enjoy French passion sites, what we spend depends on what we want

One site in Provonce I return to to buy my Lavender Oil

It will be the same here

Places will sell produce you really want to repeat

Aldra


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## blu66 (Dec 21, 2005)

aldra said:


> I would second that
> 
> One site in Provonce I return to to buy my Lavender Oil
> 
> ...


Aldra, could you narrow it down a bit I would like some nice oil 

Alan & Girls


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## ukgreynomads (Jan 19, 2008)

Joined Britstops this year and a summary below of our spend.

10 Britstops which were:
2 Farms with shops
1 Farm Shop
1 Restaurant
2 Tea Rooms
2 Pubs
2 Pubs/hotels

Average spend = £22.45
Average Camp site spend (we full time) mainly C&CC, plus CC and CL’s = £14.72 per night

Are we happy, very much so  , we have had great food & drink in pubs, fabulous Ice Cream, and “proper” meat, not supermarket cxxp, organic rhubarb pulled fresh from the ground, excellent company and friendly and informative hosts.

My wife has not had to cook AND I haven’t had to wash up. :lol: 

See also our Britstop reviews.

Alan & Jenny


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## Qnapper (Jul 26, 2012)

We worked it out average per night over 22 stops was £9.50p We did not eat at each place, but I did have a beer. We asked the owners about having to eat or drink and many stated that they were not that bothered, however the odd one wanted a meal to be purchased at which I stated I'm happy to pay for a drink and that's it. The farm shops are great as you can stock up on what you going to eat that night. We are back in EU now so will not be using Brit stops again this year, however would be happy to rejoin next year.


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

My only use for Britstops this year(3 weeks) would be in Scotland north of Edinburgh and there are only about 20 locations. Steve says the ratio of pubs to other locations is 60:40.

We are not keen on pub sites for various reasons.

Could somebody please check their book and advise how many of the Sottish locations are non-pub. It is unlikely that more than 50% will be on or near our route even if we buy the book.

Thanks to anyone prepared to do this.

Geoff


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## Qnapper (Jul 26, 2012)

4 x pubs
11 x farm type
8 x other


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Geoff the book is in the van which is in Howarth with our son

If no one else responds then I will check tomorrow

If you are returning down the West Coast then from memory there are very few BS in that area but we found lots of opportunity to wild camp and it is one of the most beautiful areas of Scotland

If you enjoy castles houses and gardens and there are two of you I would consider the NT , joining in Scotland is cheaper there is a concession entry for Senior Citizans which saves between £3-4 on each admissions if you are non members Make sure you are getting the 3months free which costs £69 in England But visit 4 or five places and if paying non member rates for two you have covered your membership cost

Worth having a look on line at the NT Scotland, it also covers all of GT Britain and see if there are places you would enjoy to visit on your trip

Aldra


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## nicholsong (May 26, 2009)

Thanks Qnapper just the info i wanted.

Sandra I am an English NT Member but Basia not - missed a trick there. I should have made her the Member and I could have paid the concession rate.

Does Scottish NT have the 'No Overnight' restrictions?

Geoff


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## aldra (Jul 2, 2009)

Iwould think like England some do some don't. stately houses and gardens not, but a couple of places we visited we could have stayed I suppose it depends where and what they are 

You can buy the Scottish book for £3. 50 at THe NT 

sandra


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